The Legal Ops Podcast: Recent Episodes

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Dee Venello is a senior operations professional at Commvault. She has implemented contracting systems and other legal technology in multiple organizations, carefully managing diverse stakeholders with a variety of interests and workflows. She also has experience in general business operations, providing her with insight into the issues and concerns faced by teams that the legal department supports.

A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode and for recommending Dee as a guest of the show. We discussed with Dee why LinkSquares was selected by two of her employers as the primary contracting solution for the organization.

We also discussed a range of related issues, including:

• The importance of CLM in general

• Why change management is vital in any technology implementation

• The value of cross-functional understanding and partnerships

• How CLM liberates data, and what to do with it

• Driving continuous improvement and "planning to plan"

LINKS

LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com

Dee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dee-venello-74090a40/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• how to craft an organizational AI policy

• a recent tribunal decision requiring Air Canada to honor a refund policy invented by its online chatbot

• recent articles on AI's impact on law firm billing and a potential shift towards value-based pricing

• another recent article on the need to balance AI's precision with human insight in the practice of law

A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode! Check out their website at: https://linksquares.com/

LINKS

Air Canada decision: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/02/air-canada-must-honor-refund-policy-invented-by-airlines-chatbot/

AI impact on billing - article 1: https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/ai-could-transform-law-firm-billing-beyond-recognition

AI impact on billing - article 2: https://www.legaldive.com/news/ai-use-cases-legal-ops-deloitte-blickstein-group-report/702436/

Balancing AI and human strengths in legal practice: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2024/02/12/the-future-of-tech-enabled-law-practice-balancing-ais-precision-with-human-insight/

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At the start of 2024 Jenn McCarron became President of the Board of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC), succeeding Mike Haven. We invited Jenn back on to the show to discuss:

• the process of becoming President

• the factors she considered in weighing up the role

• CLOC's role in the legal ops community, and how it has developed over time

• what changes we can expect in the future under Jenn's leadership

• the extent to which Jenn's background in entertainment will be relevant to her role

We also continued our tradition of beginning the year with predictions, and we invited Jenn to join us in making some of her own and assessing ours. These are some of the topics we discussed:

• legal ops as a partner to the business, not just the legal team

• continued growth in the importance of data and analytics

• focus on enterprise technology rather than legal point solutions

• future use cases for artificial intelligence

• the importance of managing AI risks

LINKS

Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmccarron

Jenn’s phone screen (discussed at 30 minutes and 40 seconds into the recording): http://tinyurl.com/5hem49yp

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• The recent leadership challenges at OpenAI and what, if anything, it means for the pace of AI development and adoption

• A review of podcast episodes during 2023, their favourites and why

• Musings on expectations for 2024

• Elliot's continuing work on the "AI for legal teams" training course, which will be published in early 2024 under the Legal Ops Institute brand

This is our last episode for 2023. A big thanks for listening to the show - we'll be back in late January or early February 2024.

LINKS

Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

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Noah Waisberg is the co-founder and CEO of Zuva.ai and the former co-founder and CEO of Kira Systems. He has worked for more than a decade on artificial intelligence and its application in the legal industry, beginning his work long before anyone had heard of Transformers and GPT.

He is also the author of two books on artificial intelligence: "AI for Lawyers" which, as the title suggests, is focused on AI and its use by lawyers; and "Robbie the Robot Learns to Read", likely the first children's book aiming to teach younger readers about machine learning concepts.

Naturally, with Noah we discussed many issues related to artificial intelligence, including:

• What it was like selling AI systems to lawyers in the early 2010s

• How AI adds value in the legal industry

• The ability of AI to capture, distribute and amplify legal expertise

• Jevons paradox and how it relates to AI in the legal industry

• The role of generative AI in contract review and other legal use cases

• The extent to which generative AI levels the legal tech playing field

LINKS

Noah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahwaisberg

Noah on X: https://twitter.com/nwaisb

"AI for lawyers" book: https://tinyurl.com/mx4t5nh6

"Robbie the Robot Learns to Read" book: https://tinyurl.com/3c9pjf6r

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• A recent article looking at the effects of AI on productivity and quality of work by consultants at the Boston Consulting Group

• A study by an English law firm finding poor legal advice provided by various Large Language Models, including GPT and Bard

• A recent article discussing whether or not generative AI will be a source of competitive advantage for law firms

• Elliot's anguish, and enjoyment, producing material for the upcoming "AI for legal teams" training course, which will soon be the first course published by the Legal Ops Institute

A big thanks to our friends at LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode. For more information, check out their website: https://linksquares.com/

LINKS

Article on AI used by BCG consultants: https://www.mi-3.com.au/20-09-2023/harvard-business-school-study-bcg-finds-knowledge-workers-using-chat-gpt-outperform

Law firm research paper on AI providing legal advice: https://lpscdn.linklaters.com/-/media/files/document-store/pdf/uk/2023/october/report_linksai-english-law-benchmark_october-2023.ashx?rev=fc8c65ae-00f6-408e-9aec-4bf7846f82db&extension=pdf

Article on generative AI and law firm competitive advantage: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/10/30/for-law-firms-will-generative-ai-really-be-a-major-competitive-differentiator/

Legal Ops Institute sneak peak: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Tim Parilla and Ashlyn Donohue from LinkSquares. LinkSquares helps organizations streamline contract management and drive efficiencies for contract-related workflows with an all-in-one CLM and legal project management platform.

In addition to learning about the LinksSquares product, we discuss a range of important issues including how to get buy in for a CLM implementation, which parts of an organization are the main beneficiaries of a CLM system and why data is so valuable to legal teams.

LINKS

LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com/

Tim Parilla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-parilla-64a4b36/

Ashlyn Donohue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-donohue-098aa31b

Cockpit Counsel podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/456zmn84

Cockpit Counsel podcast on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/27em7e4p

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Microsoft is one of the most innovative and widely recognised companies in the world. How does an organisation with this level of scale and success think about legal operations? What are its strategic initiatives and thought leadership that the legal ops community can learn from? To what extent is its legal department leveraging AI and other cutting edge tools to drive efficiencies and optimization?

These are among the topics we discussed with Lydia Petrakis and Tom Orrison. Lydia is a Senior Corporate Counsel and Digital Strategist focused on issues of strategy, innovation and planning as they affect the legal team. Tom is a Senior Director of Legal Operations focused on contracting, procurement, productivity solutions and support services. Both work in Microsoft's Corporate, External and Legal Affairs (CELA) department, one of the largest of its kind in the world.

Other topics we discussed with Lydia and Tom include:

• How the legal team is leveraging AI

• The vital importance of data

• The importance of understanding, and documenting, process

• How to prepare lawyers and legal teams for change

• How automation is adopted differently across three major work types: transact, comply and advise

LINKS

Lydia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lydiapetrakis/

Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-orrison-873ba04/

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• A recent article by Ironclad's CEO arguing that AI is entering its "Napster phase"

• ChatGPT now having access to current information via the internet

• Recent trips to Japan, observations on intake systems in daily Japanese life and its implications for legal workflows

• Elliot's new MacBook Air and Alex's ruminations on various Apple products

LINKS

Article on AI entering its Napster phase: https://www.fastcompany.com/90942310/ai-napster-who-going-to-own-it-next

ChatGPT can now access the internet: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chatgpt-can-finally-access-the-internet-in-real-time-but-theres-a-catch/

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Justin Hectus is a co-founder and Chief Information Officer at Keesal Propulsion Labs, a consultancy focused on technology and automation of legal processes.

With Justin we discussed many aspects of building and delivering technology for legal teams, including:

• How to ensure your team stays focused on the core mission and goals

• The importance of knowing and understanding your end customer

• Shipping early and iterating fast

• The future of custom built legal solutions

• How to build and retain a team of star players

• Developing and cross-training talent through music, art and side hustles

LINKS

Justin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinhectus

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• Introduction to the Legal Ops Institute, essential learnings for legal changemakers brought to you by the podcast

• Thumbs up emoji used to accept a contract

• Generative AI could reduce law firm revenue by 23.5%

• 62% of legal professionals are not using AI

• 2023 Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association (ALITA) Awards

LINKS

Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute

Thumbs up emoji: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/thumbs-up-emoji-can-represent-contract-acceptance-sask-court-finds-1.1941866

Generative AI reducing law firm revenue: https://www.geeklawblog.com/2023/08/generative-ai-could-reduce-law-firm-revenue-by-23-5.html

Legal professionals not using AI: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230727977407/en/%C2%A062-of-Legal-Professionals-Are-Not-Using-AI-%E2%80%94-And-Feel-The-Industry-Is-Not-Ready-For-The-Technology

2023 ALITA Awards: https://alita.legal/alita-awards-2023

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Alex and Elliot are joined by Tom Stephenson, host of the Dear Legal Ops podcast, to discuss:

• the evolution of legal operations

• career progression for legal ops professionals

• the intersection of tech, ops and people

• the strength of the legal ops community

LINKS

Tom Stephenson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tstephenson1

Dear Legal Ops podcast: https://www.dearlegalops.com/

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Jenn McCarron is the Director of Legal Operations and Technology at Netflix, a board member of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC) and host of the CLOC Talk Podcast. If legal operations has rockstars, Jenn is undoubtedly one of them.

We covered lots of ground with Jenn, including:

• What legal innovation looks like at Netflix

• The vital importance of storytelling and communication

• Career paths for legal operations professionals

• Jenn's own career path from IT program management to legal operations director

• Whether or not legal design is really "a thing"

• Jenn's interest in music and its relevance to her legal operations job

LINKS

Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmccarron

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Jerry Ting, co-founder and CEO of Evisort. Evisort combines artificial intelligence, automation and deep integration to empower customers to transform their business with industry leading contract analytics and contract lifecycle management.

In addition to deep diving into Evisort's product, we discuss with Jerry the key to implementing CLM in a commercial context and how to get buy in for any complex change which affects stakeholders across the organisation.

LINKS

Evisort website: https://www.evisort.com/

Jerry Ting on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerryting

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Alex and Elliot are joined by Kevin Clem, Chief Growth Officer at HBR Consulting, to discuss:

• Predictions about AI, data and the dominance of Microsoft's productivity suite

• HBR's "The Mingle" party at the recent CLOC Global Institute (with audio recorded live at the event)

A big thanks to HBR Consulting for sponsoring this episode of the podcast and for hosting The Mingle party. You can find more information about them here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/

LINKS

Kevin Clem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinclem

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Want to know what it's like to attend the world's biggest legal operations conference? Or did you go and you're now keen to relive it? This is the episode for you!

The unofficial theme of this year's event was: artificial intelligence and its role in the legal industry. AI was discussed in almost every session and essentially every conversation over breakfast, lunch and networking drinks. And the consistent message is that AI is already having a real impact on the legal industry through a number of practical use cases and technologies.

In our interviews we covered AI from many angles, including how legal ops professionals are adopting it, how vendors are incorporating it into their products and how it will continue to affect the shape of the legal tech market.

A big thanks to Evisort for sponsoring this episode and for enabling us to bring this amazing content to you. In the episode you'll hear a number of interviews with their staff, customers and partners, all of whom gave valuable insights on topics at the heart of legal operations and technology (including artificial intelligence). Find out more about Evisort here: https://www.evisort.com/

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• The podcast heading to CGI 2023!

• A recent survey of perceptions of legal department efficiency

• Current attitudes to generative AI in legal practice

• Gartner's 2023 report on core capabilities for legal operations technology

LINKS

Legal's role in revenue generation: https://www.legaldive.com/news/legal-department-revenue-generation-contract-negotiations-onit-elr-report/647087/

Legal department responsiveness: https://www.legaldive.com/news/legal-department-reputation-onit-elr-report-bypassing-legal/645224/

Lawyers' intentions to use generative AI: https://www.lawnext.com/2023/03/few-legal-professionals-using-or-planning-to-use-generative-ai-so-far-lexisnexis-survey-finds.html

Allen & Overy's approach to generative AI: https://www.wired.co.uk/article/generative-ai-is-coming-for-the-lawyers

Gartner's core capabilities for legal operations technology: https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2022-04-24-gartner-identifies-core-capabilities-for-legal-operations-technologies

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Raymond Blyd is seriously into legal tech. His websites, Legal Complex and Legal Pioneer, showcase the legal tech market by highlighting the most innovative brands and, more importantly, the numbers.

How much capital is flowing into legal tech? How has the funding market changed in recent times? Who are the winners and losers? What does all this tell us about the current trends and likely future developments? These are all questions that Raymond has investigated and written about, by analysing the numbers and thinking carefully about what they tell us.

We covered many topics with Raymond, including:

• How he became interested in legal tech

• What is (and isn't) "legal tech"

• What is the biggest legal tech company (it's not what you think)

• What he is seeing in the legal tech numbers now that have implications for the future

• How AI and GPT have and will affect the market

• What all this means for the role of legal in the wider community

LINKS

Legal Pioneer: https://legalpioneer.org/

Legal Complex: https://www.legalcomplex.com/

Raymond on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raymondblijd/

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• The release of GPT-4

• GPT-4 passes the Uniform Bar Exam

• Microsoft announces Copilot for Office online

• Copying GPT for under $600, by using GPT

LINKS

Release of GPT-4: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/14/23638033/openai-gpt-4-chatgpt-multimodal-deep-learning

GPT-4 has passed the Uniform Bar Exam: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/03/17/how-gpt-4-mastered-the-entire-bar-exam-and-why-that-matters/

Microsoft Copilot: https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/17/23644501/microsoft-copilot-ai-office-documents-microsoft-365-report

Copying GPT for under $600: https://newatlas.com/technology/stanford-alpaca-cheap-gpt/

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Interest in artificial intelligence has skyrocketed in the past few months thanks to rapid advances in the GPT language model and, equally importantly, many vendors incorporating the model into their products and services. But what does this mean for the legal industry, both now and in the future?

To answer this question we invited Mary O’Carroll and Cai GoGwilt onto the podcast. Mary is currently Chief Community Officer with Ironclad, a US-based contract lifecycle management vendor, as well as the immediate past president of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium and the former Director of Legal Operations at Google. Cai is a co-founder of Ironclad, its current Chief Technology Officer and formerly a software engineer with a data analytics software provider.

Having both Mary and Cai on the show enabled a rich conversation about GPT and the legal industry, both from a technology perspective and a commercial perspective. Here is a taste of the topics we covered:

• What actually is GPT?

• What does GPT offer in the digital contracting space?

• What is it good at and what are its limitations?

• Is the current hype justified?

• What does this mean for lawyers and legal work?

• Are there any risks and, if so, how can they be managed?

• What does the future hold for GPT and the legal industry?

By the way, our conversation with Mary and Cai was recorded on 2 March 2023. We think it's important to provide a timestamp, given the rapid rate of developments in this space.

LINKS

Mary O'Carroll on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryshenocarroll

Cai GoGwilt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cai-gogwilt-77b18a22

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Alex and Elliot discuss:

• A roundup of legal tech investments in 2022 including their thoughts on the trends for 2023

• Microsoft’s potential integration of ChatGPT into Outlook and Word, and what this would mean for the legal industry

• Why Elliot is hanging out for the rumoured-to-be-upcoming 15.5 inch M2 MacBook Air

LINKS

2022 legal tech investment: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/01/20/legal-tech-investments-dropped-in-2022-but-the-number-of-investors-spiked/

ChatGPT for Outlook and Word: https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/9/23546144/microsoft-openai-word-powerpoint-outlook-gpt-integration-rumor

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It's the start of the year and time for a new round of legal tech predictions!

In this episode we discuss a bunch of predictions from Gartner, including what we do and don't agree with, and why. Here's a sneak peak of the issues covered:

• Big growth in the proportion of funding spent on legal tech

• Replacing lawyers with non-lawyers

• Ever increasing automation

• Capturing the benefits of CLM, or not

• Spending on non-specialist technology providers

Then Alex and Elliot make some predictions of their own, including:

• The rise of platforms

• More "no code" tools

• Technology rationalisation

• The continued importance of rich APIs

• The impact of ChatGPT

• Consolidation in the CLM market

• Microsoft's legal tech acquisition

LINKS

Gartner legal tech trends: https://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/5-legal-technology-trends-changing-in-house-legal-departments

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Carl Morrison is the Director of Legal Operations at MGM Resorts International, based in Las Vegas. He began his legal career as a paralegal, working primarily in litigation support and legal project management. He progressed to management roles in which he lead teams of paralegals to efficiently deliver complex discovery and document review initiatives, eventually combining his existing skills with technology, analysis and strategic advice to move fully into legal operations.

We covered many topics with Carl, including:

• How he progressed from paralegal to director of legal operations

• What specific challenges he encountered on his journey and how he handled them

• The challenges that come with being a legal operations leader in a small legal team

• As a sole legal operations resource, how he prioritises his time and effort

• The impact of an organisational merger on a legal operations function

• Observations on the legal operations market in the US compared to other parts of the world

LINKS

Carl Morrison on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlmorrison/

Carl's email: carl@dearlegalops.com

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Nam Truong is the head of Digital and Innovation at Law Squared, an innovative and young law firm based in Melbourne, Australia. Nam is relatively new to the legal industry, having spent a number of years working with digital products in the financial services industry. This non-legal background, combined with the blank canvas of Law Squared's existing tech stack, enabled Nam and the firm to eschew many traditional legal tech services and instead create a flexible and robust system which leverages modern architectural principles.

We covered many topics with Nam, including:

• Why he moved from fintech to the legal industry, and what key observations he had after making the move.

• How Law Squared is different to a traditional law firm and how that affects the day-to-day employee experience.

• How Nam and the firm approached the design of their tech stack.

• Which particular applications the firm uses, how they are integrated and how it improves the handling and management of data.

• Why they chose a modular approach over a monolithic approach, and what benefits and costs it offers.

• How the tech stack is expected to grow and develop in the future.

LINKS

Nam Truong on Linkedin: https://au.linkedin.com/in/namtruong96

Law Squared: https://www.lawsquared.com/

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Zach Posner is a co-founder and managing partner of The Legal Tech Fund, an investment fund which focuses exclusively on early stage legal tech start ups. He is an accomplished entrepreneur himself, having started and sold three companies in a variety of industries.

In a wide ranging and fascinating conversation, we covered many aspects of the legal tech investment world, including:

• What is unique about the legal tech market, and why he and The Legal Tech Fund focus on it

• What makes a good start up, both in general and in the legal industry specifically

• How to validate a new business idea

• Why timing is of critical importance, and what to do about it

• What "pre-seed", "seed", "series A" and other investment jargon means

• What funding cycles are and how they work

• The role of an investor in the day-to-day operations and management of a business

• What sort of exit investors look for and why the exit profile in legal tech is different to other markets

LINKS

Zach Posner on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zachposner

The Legal Tech Fund: https://www.legaltech.com/

TLTF Summit: http://tltfsummit.com/

Nate's news: https://www.legaltech.com/natesnews

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Matt Patel, co-founder and COO of Malbek. Malbek provides provides contract review and management software solutions to companies across the globe.

LINKS

Malbek website: https://www.malbek.io/

Matt Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-patel-36680a9

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Electra Japonas is the founder and CEO of The Law Boutique, a legal optimisation consultancy which aims to turn law departments into commercial enablers by supercharging their business through legal design.

Electra and TLB are on a mission to drive efficiency through standardization. Their first two contract standardization projects, OneNDA and OneDPA, have received widespread adoption and acclaim. Their next venture, Claustack, aims to build on that success by creating a platform which enables all industry participants to start and run their own standardization projects.

We sat down with Electra to discuss these initiatives in more detail, including:

• Electra's background and what led her to start her own consultancy.

• How OneNDA has performed during its first year since launch.

• Why Claustack is like a combined Github and Stackoverflow for legal.

• How Claustack and TLB will help lawyers to run their own standardization projects.

• Why standardization can and should be applied to more than just documents and contracts.

• What success will look like for Claustack and standardization in general.

LINKS

Electra Japonas on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/electra-japonas/

The Law Boutique website: https://www.tlb.law/

Claustack website: https://www.claustack.com/

OneNDA website: https://onenda.club/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• Why are investors pouring money into legal technology?

• Is it getting easier to switch legal tech vendors?

• Google's move into e-signature and what it means for other markets

• AirSlate's recent $51.5m capital raise

• Why Alex isn't wearing his Apple Watch any more (most of the time)

Thanks to HBR Consulting for sponsoring this episode. Find out more about HBR here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/

LINKS

Money pouring into legal tech: https://www.ft.com/content/b6f0796e-0265-40c6-ad4c-a900cd788c39

Switching legal tech vendors: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2022/06/24/legal-professionals-face-cost-time-and-trust-barriers-when-switching-tech-vendors/

Google's move into e-signature: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2022/07/12/googles-move-into-e-signature-isnt-likely-about-the-clm-market/

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Kevin Clem and Lauren Chung from HBR Consulting. HBR is one of the world's largest legal operations consulting firms, headquartered in Chicago with operations throughout the USA, Canada and the UK.

In addition to consulting on all aspects of legal operations, technology and strategy, HBR conducts an annual law department survey to analyse and understand developments in the legal industry. In the episode we draw on the survey, as well as Kevin and Lauren's extensive experience, to discuss recent trends in the industry and a number of insightful predictions for the future.

LINKS

Kevin Clem on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinclem

Lauren Chung on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenmchung

HBR Consulting: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/

Counsel Command: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/what-we-do/software-solutions/counselcommand/

Counsel Guide: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/what-we-do/software-solutions/counselguide/

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Meera Klemola and Astrid Kohlmeier are legal design pioneers. They are both teachers, speakers and writers, specialising in the application of design principles to legal services delivery. Both have consulted on this topic to the world's largest law firms and in-house teams.

For this episode we sat down with Meera and Astrid to discuss their book, "The Legal Design Book", which was published in 2021. We covered many topics including:

• Why they wrote the book and why now is the right time to publish it

• What "legal design" is and how it differs from some other methodologies, such as Lean Six Sigma and Agile

• Why "legal design" is about more than visually pleasing documents

• The key philosophies and mindsets that underly legal design

• How to apply legal design in practice, including case studies

• The relationship between legal design and legal operations

LINKS

The book: https://legaldesign-book.com/

Meera's website: https://www.groundm.com/

Meera on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meera-klemola/

Astrid's website: https://astridkohlmeier.de/

Astrid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/astridkohlmeier/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• A recent survey suggesting lawyers are (possibly) moving away from MS Word

• Recent capital raisings by Evisort, SirionLabs and Dilitrust

• The M2 MacBook Air and what's to like (and not like) about it

LINKS

Lawyers moving away from MS Word: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/05/25/are-some-inhouse-lawyers-falling-out-of-love-with-word/

Evisort: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/evisort-raises-100m-in-funding-led-by-tcv-301545180.html

SirionLabs: https://techcrunch.com/2022/05/10/sirionlabs-lands-85m-to-inject-contract-management-with-automation/

Dilitrust: https://www.dilitrust.com/en/actu/dilitrust-continues-to-grow/

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Alex and Elliot interview Eyal Iffergan, Managing Director, Legal Business Advisory at Hyperion Global Partners.

Hyperion provides legal operations consultancy services to legal teams across the world. In this episode, Eyal, Alex and Elliot discuss technology roadmaps and data analytics, including:

• What a technology roadmap is, why it's important in both private practice and in-house and how it relates to the team's broader strategy.

• How legal operations is helping to drive the legal industry to become a "customer driven market".

• What legal teams typically do well (and less well) when creating a technology roadmap.

• What we mean by "legal metrics" and whether or not they must be quantifiable.

• What is most challenging: collecting, analysing or utilising metrics?

• What are the most critical metrics for a legal function to focus on.

LINKS

Hyperion Global Partners: https://www.hyperiongp.com/

Hyperion Research: https://insights.hgpresearch.com/

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The Global Institute is the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium's flagship conference, which is held annually in Las Vegas, USA. The event was most recently held in May 2022 and attracted around 2,500 attendees from the legal operations ecosystem globally.

In this episode we transport you to the conference via the many recordings we made at the event. We interviewed speakers, fellow attendees, legal tech vendors and others. We also recorded our thoughts and reflections on many of the sessions, immediately after we came out of them.

If you couldn't attend the conference and you'd like to know what it's like, or you did attend and you want to relive it, this is the episode for you.

Our thanks to HBR Consulting for sponsoring this episode and for making it possible. Find out more about HBR here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• The (literal) road to the 2022 CLOC Global Institute

• Legal tech capital raisings by LinkSquares, Filevine and Athennian

• ServiceNow expanding further into the legal market

This episode would not be possible without the support of HBR Consulting. If you're attending CGI2022, make sure to visit their booth. You can find more information about them here: https://www.hbrconsulting.com/

LINKS

LinkSquares: https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/04/linksquares-benefits-from-the-legal-tech-boom-with-a-fresh-100m/

Filevine: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/filevine-raises-108m-series-d-for-legal-work-platform-serving-law-firms-and-corporate-counsel-teams-301525006.html

Athennian: https://legaltechnology.com/2022/03/31/athennian-raises-33-million-in-series-b-funding/

ServiceNow: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/23/servicenow-pushes-deeper-into-legal-with-new-expansion/

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Want the best productivity tips from your peers in the legal industry? This is the episode for you!

Recently we asked our followers on LinkedIn to post their best productivity tips. This comprises the philosophies, tools and other awesome stuff that they just can't live without. And we got a great response!

In this episode Alex and Elliot go through all the tips, adding their analysis and views. They also discuss the core elements of productivity, how to approach each element and what works (and doesn't) for them.

LINKS

Original LinkedIn post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6914726124598046720

The 4 Ds: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryancollinseurope/2018/06/14/effective-time-management/?sh=4d5ba51d1938

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot interview Catherine Moynihan, Senior Director, Strategic Intelligence and Advisory at Hyperion Global Partners.

Hyperion provides legal operations consultancy services to legal teams across the world. In addition, their core business historically was the development of in-depth and high-quality research reports on all aspects of the legal tech market. In this episode we focus on those research reports, covering:

• What it is about the legal tech market that makes the reports valuable.

• What the reports cover, in what detail and how frequently they are updated.

• How Hyperion's customers use the reports both to understand the technology marketplace and to formulate and clarify their own requirements.

• How Hyperion's reports differ from others in the market.

• What trends Hyperion has seen in legal tech and what developments are expected in the future.

LINKS

Check out Hyperion Global Partners: https://www.hyperiongp.com/

Catherine Moynihan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinejmoynihan/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• How Alex uses the iOS focus mode to control notifications

• A bunch of legal tech capital raisings...

• Time by Ping and Zero Systems: automated time-based billing

• Common Paper: contracts as APIs

• Ex Parte: predicting litigation outcomes

• Thirdfort: AML / KYC compliance for law firms

LINKS

Time by Ping: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/time-by-pings-ryan-alshak-on-the-36-5m-series-b-funding/

Zero Systems: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/and-now-zero-bags-12m-in-funding/

Common Paper: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/common-paper-the-contracts-as-apis-startup-bags-4-5m-seed-funding/

Ex Parte: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/01/moneyball-for-law-prediction-startup-ex-parte-bags-7-5m/

Thirdfort: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/03/08/thirdfort-bags-19-7m-to-help-lawyers-beat-money-laundering/

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In celebration of International Women's Day 2022 we spoke with Jodie Baker about the representation of women in the legal tech industry. Jodie is one of the founders of WALTA, the Women of Australian Legal Technology Association, as well as being a lawyer and a highly successful legal tech entrepreneur.

We covered many aspects of this important topic, including:

• How the representation of women in legal tech compares to that of men

• How the rate of funding for female-led legal tech start ups significantly lags that of male-led legal tech start ups

• Why it is important to strive for equality in this space

• Some causes of the existing inequality, and what can potentially be done to address it

• Examples of exciting female-led legal tech businesses

• Where we can aim to be in the medium to long-term future

LINKS

Jodie Baker on LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/jodiebakerxakia

WALTA website: https://alta.law/women-of-australian-legal-technology-association/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• Checkbox's recent US$4.5m capital raise

• LawNext's new legal tech directory

• Google's AI-based contract review service, Contract DocAI

• Whether or not lawyers should have an ethical obligation to be efficient (spoiler: probably not)

LINKS

Checkbox capital raise: https://www.businessnewsaustralia.com/articles/checkbox-raises-6-3-m-to-take-automated-app-builder-global.html

LawNext's legal tech directory: https://directory.lawnext.com/directory-companies/categories/contract-lifecycle-management/

Contract DocAI: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2021/11/18/google-tells-artificial-lawyer-about-its-contract-docai-strategy/

Efficiency as an ethical obligation: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2022/02/14/what-if-lawyers-had-an-ethical-obligation-to-be-efficient/

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We’re back!

It’s a new year and that means almost every legal tech publication has its own predictions for 2022 and beyond. To save you reading them, and to add some spice, Alex and Elliot discuss the eight predictions they find to be the most interesting, compelling and, in some cases… the most wrong.

They cover:

• AI and Machine Learning

• Platformization

• Blockchain

• Spend on technology vs people

• Increased use of cloud services

• Investment in legal tech

• Security and risk

• Hybrid working

LINKS

Legal Insider predictions: https://bit.ly/3sl5uZs

Predictions for contracts and CLM: https://bit.ly/3owkDWB

Predictions for the business of law and ALSPs: https://bit.ly/3B3LKgS

Predictions for Legal Technology Innovation: https://bit.ly/34nqoiz

Predictions for Remote Work and COVID-19: https://bit.ly/3B4EK3t

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And… that’s a wrap for 2021!

Alex and Elliot are joined by a very special guest to reflect on the year and cast their minds forward to 2022. They discuss the podcast’s incredible growth, their favourite episodes and what they’ve learned from the awesome guests who have appeared on the show this year.

They also offer their predictions on what will happen in legal ops in 2022, including the changes they expect to see in the legal tech market and likely developments in the legal services space. Finally, they discuss what we can expect from the podcast next year.

The podcast will be taking a break over the Christmas and New Year period. We’ll be back with more great legal ops content in early 2022.

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• A new legal tech directory and why there are so many in the market

• A shareholder class action against Nuix, capping off a really bad year for the company

• Legal tech capital raisings by Ontra and others

• DocuSign’s new investment fund

LINKS

New legal tech directory: https://legaloperators.com/tech-directory/

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Michael Callier is an award-winning corporate lawyer, legal operations director and consultant with nearly 20 years of experience in law firms and corporate legal departments, including at Nike, Infinitas and now at Factor. 

We sat down with Michael to discuss diversity in legal practice and legal operations, including: 

• what we mean by diversity

• how the world is becoming more volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous (VUCA) and why that puts an emphasis on diversity for legal teams

• the SCARF model and how it can help to promote collaboration and team cohesiveness

• what role legal operations and legal tech can play to improve diversity

LINKS

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelcallier/

Email: michael.callier@factor.law

Blame It on the Machine: A Socio-Legal Analysis of Liability in an AI World:https://digitalcommons.law.uw.edu/wjlta/vol14/iss1/4/ 

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• Two recent legal tech acquisitions

• Microsoft's seed investment in Definely

• What's hot (and not) in legal tech in 2021

• A new "Tinder for lawyers" app

LINKS

What's hot (and not) article: https://www.legaltechnology.com/2021/09/06/talk-whats-hot-and-not-in-2021/

Tinder for lawyers article: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2021/09/07/tinder-for-lawyers-dating-app-aims-to-help-attorneys-find-love

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Colin Levy is a corporate lawyer, a legal tech evangelist and a regular commentator on all things legal tech and legal operations. His diverse experience has given him extensive exposure to the commercial contracting space, as a lawyer and also as a designer and implementer of contract management systems.

For this episode we sat down with Colin to discuss the basics of contract lifecycle management (CLM), including:

• What the phrase "contract lifecycle management" actually means

• As an in-house lawyer, how you know you need a CLM tool and how to choose the right one

• Considerations when implementing a CLM tool, including how to build a business case, which stakeholders to engage and how to improve your underlying contracting processes

• The new features which are being added to CLM tools now and in the future

• What the future holds for legal technology more generally

LINKS

Colin Levy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinslevy/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• More news on the M1X MacBook Pros

• The recent acquisition of Kira Systems by Litera Microsystems, and Luminance's related PR campaign

• The maturing of the legal tech market

• The 2021 Gartner hype cycle for legal and compliance technologies

LINKS

Legal Evolution article: https://www.legalevolution.org/2021/08/how-the-first-half-of-2021-signals-the-maturity-of-an-ecosystem-255/

Article on the 2021 Gartner hype cycle: https://www.artificiallawyer.com/2021/07/28/gartner-legal-tech-hype-cycle-2021-some-thoughts/

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Mark Cohen is a genuine thought leader on the changing nature of the legal profession. He is a frequent speaker about legal transformation and a prolific writer on the topic for a range of publications, including Forbes magazine. A former trial lawyer, Big Law partner, boutique law firm founder and current legal transformation consultant, he has a wealth of experience in the space.

We sat down with Mark to discuss digital transformation and how it applies to the legal industry, including:

• The relationship between digital transformation and customer centricity

• When considering legal technology, why it’s more important to focus on the customer benefits than the technology itself

• How digital transformation will enable law departments to change from being cost centres to drivers of business value

• The importance of data to law departments and the businesses they support

• How to drive cultural change around digital transformation

• The role of legal operations in the changing nature of the legal industry

LINKS

Digital Legal Exchange: https://www.dlex.org/

Legal Mosaic: https://www.legalmosaic.com/

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Alex and Elliot chat with Alex Su about his hugely popular Tik Tok and LinkedIn videos which poke fun at the legal industry, how he creates great comedic content, whether or not he has faced backlash and how he transitioned from practising law to selling legal tech.

LINKS

Alex Su on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-su

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Mike Haven recently became President of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). He is also the Head of Legal Operation at Intel, a thoughtful and passionate commentator on all things legal operations and he was our first ever guest on the podcast back in 2019.

We sat down with Mike to discuss CLOC, the state of the industry and the future of work in a post-pandemic world. Here's a snapshot of what we covered:

• Why Mike became CLOC President and what he considered in deciding whether or not to take on the role.

• What he sees as the future of the organisation and how it will build on successes of the past.

• Why “matters of the heart” will be an increasing focus for the future, including in particular fostering greater diversity in legal operations and in legal practice generally.

• Results from the recent 2021 State of the Industry Report, what has changed over time and what it tells us about the development of the legal operations industry.

• How corporate legal departments are planning their post-pandemic working arrangements, and what work will be like for lawyers in the future.

LINKS

Mike's article on becoming CLOC President: https://cloc.org/my-personal-why-carrying-the-torch-fanning-the-flame-and-charting-the-course/

Mike on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-haven-057aa1/

CLOC 2021 State of the Industry Report: https://cloc.org/2021-state-of-industry-survey/

Atlassian article on remote working: https://www.atlassian.com/blog/leadership/hybrid-work-model-premortem

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• Recent capital raisings by Lexion, Tonkean, Intapp and Legal Zoom

• A recent report rating law a high risk profession for psychological hazards

• 6 product design frameworks from the inventor of the iPod and iPhone, and what they mean for legal tech

LINKS

6 product frameworks from Tony Fadell: https://www.nfx.com/post/product-frameworks-tony-fadell/

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Lawyers are notoriously poor at stepping back from their work to think about what they're doing and how they're doing it. Yet this reflection is vital to ensuring that the right output is being provided in the right way. Optimising the delivery of value to clients requires looking at the big picture, articulating the legal team's competitive advantage and, above all, creating and implementing a strategy.

We met with Susan Hackett, CEO of Legal Executive Leadership LLC and former General Counsel of the Association of Corporate Counsel. Susan advises law departments and law firms on all aspects of the business of law, including strategy, leadership, change management and legal operations.

Susan, Alex and Elliot discussed many topics related to strategy and legal operations, including:

• Why legal operations professionals were originally referred to as "legal executives".

• What strategy actually is.

• How and when to set strategy.

• What elements comprise a law department strategy and where technology fits in.

• The role of legal operations in the strategy setting process.

• Susan's view on the future of legal operations and technology.

LINKS

Susan Hackett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanhackett/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• The highly anticipated M1X MacBook Pro and why Elliot wants one

• Recent legal tech capital raisings by ContractBook and Tessian

• Amazon using data analysis to update the disputes clause in its Terms of Service

• The Legal Tech-to-English Dictionary and Elliot's attempt to define "User Experience" and "Change Management"

LINKS

ContractBook capital raising: https://venturebeat.com/2021/05/11/contract-automation-platform-contractbook-raises-30m-to-challenge-docusign/

Tessian capital raising: https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/25/security-startup-tessian-which-uses-ai-to-fight-social-engineering-trousers-65m/

Amazon updates its disputes clause: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/1/22463550/amazon-lawsuit-arbitration-terms-of-service-update-alexa

The Legal Tech-to-English Dictionary: https://abovethelaw-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/abovethelaw.com/2021/05/introducing-the-legal-tech-to-english-dictionary/amp/

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Alex Kelly, co-founder and COO of BrightFlag. BrightFlag is a legal spend management platform which uses artificial intelligence to automate the review and management of law firm invoices.

LINKS

BrightFlag website: https://brightflag.com/

BrightFlag on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/brightflag

Alex Kelly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexkellybrightflag/

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Dr. Justine Rogers is a Senior Lecturer in the law department at the University of New South Wales (UNSW) and Deputy Director of the Future of Law and Innovation in the Profession (FLIP) research stream. Peter Dombkins is an Adjunct Associate Professor in the UNSW law department and a Director in PWC's NewLaw practice.

Alex and Elliot spoke with Justine and Peter about their recent journal article entitled "Legal Project Management: Projectifying the Legal Profession", the first academic paper focused on Legal Project Management (LPM). They covered many topics related to LPM including:

• What is a "project" and what is "legal project management"?

• How project management grew out of the military and aeronautical industries in the 1950s and 60s

• The conflict between lawyers as professionals and the managerial discipline introduced by LPM

• How LPM is, practically, incorporated into legal practice

• The future of LPM in an industrial and academic context

LINKS

Main article: https://lthj.qut.edu.au/article/view/1610

Dr. Justine Rogers: https://www.law.unsw.edu.au/staff/justine-rogers

Peter Dombkins on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterdombkins

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• Elliot's thoughts on his Apple Watch, after 4 months of using it

• Recent legal tech capital raisings

• Two big IT players enter the legal market

• An ambitious new initiative to develop a common framework for structured contract data

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Jason Boehmig, co-founder and CEO of Ironclad. Ironclad aims to transform contract management from a low-value administrative task to a core business activity which provides valuable data and insights to the c-suite and other organisational leaders. Central to this mission is the development of the "digital business contract", a truly digital version of the analogue agreements we have worked with for centuries.

LINKS

Jason on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jboehmig/

IronClad homepage: https://ironcladapp.com/

Shipping container article: https://ironcladapp.com/blog/announcing-ironclads-series-d/

Pactsafe acquisition article: https://ironcladapp.com/blog/ironclad-pactsafe/?hellobar

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Alex and Elliot chat with Electra about:

• Where the oneNDA idea came from

• How it will eliminate NDA negotiations 80% of the time

• Who’s involved in the project and what their roles are

• The end of the “your paper or mine?” negotiation

• Why legal needs its own GitHub

• Why contracts are a public asset and should be open source

LINKS

oneNDA Website: https://onenda.club/

Electra Japonas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/electra-japonas/

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• The merger of HBR Consulting and Keno Kozie, forming the world's largest legal tech advisory team

• Microsoft's "industry clouds" and whether or not they will come to legal

• New presenter modes in MS Teams

• OneNDA, a community-led initiative to create a universal NDA

LINKS

HBR Consulting and Keno Kozie merger: https://legaltechnology.com/breaking-news-hbr-consulting-acquires-keno-kozie-to-form-700-legal-tech-advisory-team/

Microsoft's industry clouds: https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-unveils-three-more-industry-clouds-for-financial-manufacturing-and-nonprofit/

MS Teams new presenter modes: https://www-theverge-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2021/3/2/22308927/microsoft-teams-presenter-mode-powerpoint-live-features

OneNDA: https://onenda.club/

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Have you ever wanted to know what legal ops looks like at Google? Or are you curious about what the President of CLOC thinks about the future of legal ops?

We sat down with the inspiring Mary O’Carroll, Director of Operations, Technology and Strategy for the legal department at Google and President of CLOC, the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium.

Mary, Alex and Elliot discussed many topics concerning legal operations and technology, including:

• Mary’s journey to becoming one of the most influential leaders in legal operations

• The structure of legal ops at Google and their tech stack

• What legal ops looks like across the world and how it has grown

• Why data is at the centre of everything for legal ops

• Whether or not we are moving to more enterprise technology, at the expense of legal-specific technology

• Mary’s view on the future of legal ops and technology

LINKS

Mary O’Carroll’s CLOC profile: https://cloc.org/about-cloc/

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maryshenocarroll/

On Twitter: https://twitter.com/maryocarroll?lang=en

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• Gartner's five Legal Tech trends that are changing in-house legal departments

• BankWest's new comic-like terms and conditions

• an update on the Australian News Media Bargaining Code

• a recent newspaper article outlining how law firms can do more with less (spoiler: via legal ops)

• PWC accepting its first Bitcoin payment

LINKS

Gartner article: https://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/5-legal-technology-trends-changing-in-house-legal-departments/

BankWest's visual T&Cs: https://www.bankwest.com.au/about-us/media-centre/news/pictures-make-a-thousand-words-in-visual-style-australia-first

How law firms can do more with less: https://www.afr.com/companies/professional-services/how-law-firms-can-do-more-with-less-20210301-p576ox

PWC's Bitcoin payment: https://www.ccn.com/big-4-accounting-giant-pwc-accepts-first-bitcoin-payment/

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Karina Vazirova is a legal innovator, an experienced product developer and a specialist in user experience and design. Her agency, KV Labs, focuses on UX research, prototyping and design. She also co-founded FemTech Lab, Europe’s first FemTech accelerator.

Karina, Elliot and Alex had an insightful chat focused on UX and design in a legal context, including:

• Karina’s journey from being an international chess master to working in legal tech and then starting her own design agency.

• What “user experience” means.

• When user experience should be considered in a legal context.

• How to obtain UX feedback by finding users and asking the right types of questions.

• Why focusing on facts, and not opinions, is important when undertaking UX research.

• The future of legal operations and technology.

LINKS

Karina Vazirova on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karinavazirova/

KV Labs: https://www.kv-labs.co/

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In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot interview Tom Dunlop. He's the founder and CEO of Summize, which is a simple, lightweight and easy-to-use tool designed to make it quicker and easier for legal teams to review, summarise and draft contracts.

LINKS

Check out Summize: https://www.summize.com/

Contact Tom: tom@summize.com

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Alex and Elliot chat about:

• early impressions on Elliot's new Apple Watch

• Spark, a new dashboard covering fundraising and M&A in the legal tech space

• Ironclad raises $100 million with a valuation of almost $1 billion

• a recent court decision involving Uber regarding online acceptance of terms and conditions

• the Australian News Media Bargaining Code, which could dramatically affect the internet search market in Australia and goes to the core of competition and democracy in the country

LINKS

Ironclad article on shipping containerisation: https://ironcladapp.com/blog/announcing-ironclads-series-d/?hellobar

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Mick Sheehy is a partner at PWC in Australia and head of the firm's NewLaw practice. He is a former General Counsel at Telstra where he developed and led the legal department's innovation program, which later became its legal operations and transformation function.

Mick, Alex and Elliot had a fascinating conversation focused on data and metrics for corporate legal departments. They covered:

• Why metrics are important, and why legal departments have generally been slower to adopt them than other corporate departments.

• Whether or not it is reasonable to expect lawyers to be data experts.

• What constitutes a "metric", and whether or not it must be quantifiable.

• How to decide what to measure.

• How to utilise metrics, including their value in making decisions and framing stories.

• The role of technology and standardisation in the collection and use of metrics.

• The future of NewLaw and legal operations.

Note: This interview with Mick was recorded in late 2020.

LINKS

PWC New Law team: https://www.pwc.com.au/legal/newlaw-optimising-your-law-department.html

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Alex and Elliot chat about a bunch of legal tech news, including:

• recent capital raisings by BrightFlag and Summize

• a potential tech security vulnerability for Facebook's legal department

• Salesforce's acquisition of Slack

• Cydia's antitrust lawsuit against Apple

• rumours of an upcoming Apple search engine

• thoughts on the new AirPods Max over ear headphones

• a Christmas message and what's coming up on the podcast in 2021

LINKS

Facebook security vulnerability: https://alaa.blog/2020/12/how-i-hacked-facebook-part-one/

Salesforce's acquisition of Slack: https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/technology/salesforce-slack-deal.amp.html

Cydia's antitrust lawsuit: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/12/apples-app-store-is-an-illegal-monopoly-rival-cydia-claims-in-suit/

Apple search engine: https://www.fastcompany.com/90583870/apple-search-engine-google-competition

AirPods Max review: https://www.theverge.com/22177494/apple-airpods-max-headphones-review-price-features

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This is the first Talking Tech episode and what a way to start! Alex and Elliot interviewed Sam Kidd. He's the Co-Founder and CEO of LawVu, which is an NZ-based company selling a legal operations platform to in-house legal teams around the world.

LINKS

Check out LawVu: https://lawvu.com/

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Alex and Elliot chat about their plans for a new separate sub-stream of the podcast called “Talking Tech”. Each Talking Tech episode will be an interview with a law tech vendor discussing their product, how they got started, who the target audience is and what the intended use cases are. Some questions will be easy, some will be hard, and all of them will be interesting and relevant. 

They also discuss Elliot’s new AirPods Pro, running through what he likes and dislikes about them. They cover Apple’s announcement of a suite of ARM-based Macs, the pros and cons of the new architecture and whether or not Alex and Elliot are likely to buy a new machine. Finally, they chat about the recent changes to Google’s photo storage service and how it relates to iCloud and cloud storage more generally.

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Chris Georgiou is the head of Ashurst Advance, Ashurst's global "New Law" division. He is a former securities and derivatives partner who successfully made the transition from traditional lawyer to legal business professional.

Chris, Alex and Elliot covered many topics related to the changing nature of legal practice, including:

• When and how did "New Law" get started?

• Are the drivers of change consistent across in-house teams and law firms?

• The role of professional project management in legal practice.

• How will the changes in legal practice affect how law firms see themselves and their place in the market?

• Will future law firms become "one stop shops" offering a range of multidisciplinary services?

• To what extent has conservatism (of people, business models, etc) held back legal transformation historically?

• What are some examples of good, and not so good, change management programs that Chris has experienced.

• What are Chris' views on the future of "New Law"?

LINKS

Chris Georgiou Ashurst profile: https://www.ashurst.com/en/people/christopher-georgiou/

On LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christopher-georgiou-4b93aba

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Alex and Elliot chat with Nikki Shaver and Chris Ford about their new venture, Legal Tech Hub.

Want to understand the market for a particular type of legal tech? Need to know which vendors operate in your market and in your language? Are you a vendor wanting to make sure potential purchasers know about your product and what it does? These are the problems Legal Tech Hub is trying to solve. Nikki and Chris explain who the site is for, how it works and why you should check it out.

LINKS

Legal Tech Hub website: https://legaltechnologyhub.com/

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The Legal Ops Podcast is one year old today!

Alex and Elliot chat about the podcast, including some fascinating stats on its geographical reach, download trends and which is the most popular episode. They also cover what they've learned from producing the podcast over the past year, and what they would both do if they decided to take a 12 month break from their corporate jobs.

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You've chosen a cool new piece of legal technology, but how do you go about implementing it? What phases will your project go through and in what order should they be tackled?

In this episode, Alex and Elliot do a deep dive on all aspects of the implementation process. They cover lots of examples drawn from real life legal tech implementations, including matter management systems, document management platforms, contract automation tools and more.

They also discuss a number of important considerations and best practices for all significant tech-related projects, including:

• should you form a SteerCo?

• when is a staged roll out better than a "big bang"?

• should you spend time simplifying processes before buying new technology?

• how should you record and respond to feedback from users?

• how do you ensure the technology has sustained usage?

• when and how does an implementation project become part of "business as usual"?

This is part 2 of a two part series on choosing and implementing the right technology solution. If you haven't listened to part 1, make sure you go back and check it out!

LINKS

Harvard Business Review article "Cracking the Code of Change": https://hbr.org/2000/05/cracking-the-code-of-change

Dr Larry Richard article: https://bit.ly/2EThFYN

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot discuss the recently released 2020 State of the Legal Market report for Australia, including how law firms and other players might adopt its recommendation for reimagination of legal services delivery. They cover recent developments in the legal ops consulting market, who's building consulting capacity and which models might prevail. They also chat about ThoughtRiver's $10m capital raise and the history of funding of AI-based contract review vendors.

LINKS

2020 State of the Legal Market report: https://insight.thomsonreuters.com.au/legal/resources/resource/2020-australia-state-of-the-legal-market

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Legal automation is a hot topic. If your firm or department is not already investing, it will almost certainly be on your roadmap. And who better to discuss this with than Evan Wong, the co-founder and CEO of legal automation company Checkbox AI?

In a wide ranging and highly practical discussion, Evan, Alex and Elliot covered:

• why legal teams should be investing in automation

• how to build a business case for automation

• how to get started, practically

• applying lean principles to project development

• why building an automation system is like building a start-up

• how to balance risk reduction against system complexity

• how to measure success

• the future of legal operations

LINKS

Checkbox website: https://checkbox.ai/

Evan Wong on LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/theevanwong

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot discuss Apple's recent banning of Fortnite from the iOS App Store and the resulting lawsuit by Fortnite's creator, Epic Games. As with Apple's banning of the Hey.com email app, accusations of abuse of monopoly power have again been brought against Apple, only this time Apple's adversary is a huge, well capitalised company. Alex and Elliot discuss how things could play out, and how this situation compares to a shopping mall where the owner leverages its position to extract above market rents. They also cover Alex's recent flight from the USA to Australia, what it was like to travel internationally during the pandemic and how Alex's experience has been in mandatory hotel quarantine.

LINKS

Picture of Fornite's in-game currency purchase screen: https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/21757364/epic_direct_pay_apple_app_store_2045x979_730033169.png

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot chat with Stevie Ghiassi, CEO and co-founder of Legaler and former president of the Australian Legal Technology Association. Stevie is one of the brains behind the Global Legal Tech Report and was able to answer a bunch of questions that Alex and Elliot mused in the previous episode of The Pulse. They also discussed a number of Stevie's "side hustles", including the upcoming Global Legal Tech Directory and his project aimed at creating a set of common standards for legal tech. Finally, Stevie gave his view on coronavirus and how it’s impacting the legal tech market.

LINKS

Global Legal Tech Report website: https://www.globallegaltechreport.com/

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So you want to invest in legal technology, but where do you start? In this two-part series you’ll hear from Alex and Elliot who together have a wealth of experience sourcing, selecting and implementing legal technology for both large and small corporate legal departments.

They share practical tips while walking through the following stages that will help ensure you choose the right solution:

(1) Defining the problem - a practical framework for establishing and justifying the need, contextualising the problem and developing a problem statement.

(2) Rent, buy or build? - is this something you can build yourself using existing enterprise systems already available to you? What are the pros and cons of each option?

(3) How to find the right tech - with over 4,000 legal technology vendors globally, it’s easy to be overwhelmed. Should you choose an integrated or point solution? Legal specific or enterprise? Where can you go to find the best tech? How do you make the most out of product demos?

(4) RFP, RFI, RFQ - what are the differences and what is the best option for your scenario?

In Part 2 Alex and Elliot will share practical tips on the fun part - implementation!

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot discuss the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium’s annual State of the Industry survey results. They covered what was surprising and not so surprising about the results and discussed what trends could be contributing to changes in the industry. They also discussed Google’s announcement to create a "new integrated workspace experience" by combing a number of their products into one place. Alex shares how this will dramatically improve his work day while Elliot shares his healthy skepticism.

LINKS

CLOC 3rd Annual State of the Industry Survey: https://cloc.org/blog/cloc-announces-the-results-of-their-3rd-annual-state-of-the-industry-survey/

G Suite video: https://youtu.be/4Cslvqi38eI

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot discuss the Global Legal Tech Report, including what it is, who it's for and some of its findings. They also cover the recently announced update to Microsoft Teams which adds two intriguing features: Together Mode, which uses avatars to simulate being physically together, and Dynamic View, which promises a better way to deliver group presentations virtually. They also provide a brief follow up to the Hey.com story discussed in the previous episode, and they chat about recent coronavirus developments in Chicago and Melbourne.

LINKS

You download the app and it doesn’t work: https://youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com/

MS Teams update video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1egcVkYrgw&feature=youtu.be

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Steven, Alex and Elliot discuss the challenges presented by the COVID-19 pandemic for legal operations, particularly relating to business continuity. They cover:

• The history of legal operations, how it has matured as a discipline and the influence of groups such as CLOC and the ACC

• Permanently mobile workforces, the challenges this creates and how to maintain personal relationships and connections in a physically separated working environment

• Whether or not paper is "dead", and how the pandemic has affected this trend

• The extent to which corporates should be concerned about their law firms' business continuity strategies and procedures

• Why change management is more important than ever

• The importance of data and metrics, both to assess the impact of disruption and to help with planning for future events

• Steven's views on the future of legal operations and why collaboration, integration and data will play a key role

LINKS

Steven O'Donnell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenodonnell1

Mitratec's Business Continuity Transformation Center: https://mitratech.com/business-continuity-transformation-center/

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot chat about Hey, a new email service from the Basecamp software company. Hey has been described as the most innovative take on email since Gmail launched in 2004. However the focus of the episode is not on Hey itself, but on the controversy surrounding Apple's rejection of the app from the iOS App Store. Basecamp's CTO compared Apple's behaviour to the mafia, Microsoft's chief legal officer raised serious antitrust concerns and some US politicians have questioned whether Apple is abusing the monopoly that it created over access to iOS. Alex and Elliot discuss all these issues and suggest how they could be addressed in the future, including through the creation of a competing app store for iOS.

LINKS

Hey website: https://hey.com/

TheVerge's review of Hey: https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/15/21286466/hey-email-basecamp-price-availability-platforms-launch

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot chat about Alex's new AirPods Pro and the recent integration deal between Slack and AWS. Then they discuss law firms expanding into new lines of business, why they have historically been slow to do this and what types of businesses it would make sense for law firms to consider.

LINKS

Australian Financial Review article: https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/we-are-redefining-the-law-firm-says-minterellison-boss-20191202-p53g6b

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Alex and Elliot discuss the recently released 2020 ACC Legal Operations Maturity Benchmarking Report, including:

• What type of companies and legal operations departments are represented in the report

• What competencies are included in the ACC's legal operations maturity model and how the model compares to CLOC's equivalent model

• What the report identifies to be the competencies with the highest and lowest average maturities across all responding companies

• How the overall maturity of legal operations departments correlates with organisational size and scale

• Which industries have organisations with higher legal operations maturity, and potential reasons for the reported results

• How particular competencies are defined and the average rating of all companies in those competencies

• Whether the research behind the report is measuring true operational maturity and, if not, what else it might be measuring

LINKS

Link to the report: https://bit.ly/3dyZl2Y

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot provide coronavirus updates from the USA and Australia. Then they discuss e-execution, including how recent legislative changes in Australia have expanded its availability, what risks this entails, whether the changes will continue despite the legislation being temporary and the international perspective.

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Daniela, Alex and Elliot discuss eBay's approach to legal operations, including:

• The structure of eBay's legal ops function

• Why eBilling was chosen as the function's first major deliverable

• The importance of eBay's legal tech roadmap and its alignment with the organisation's wider strategy

• How to measure the success of a technology implementation and whether quantitive or qualitative measures are preferred

• Whether technology implementations are more or less challenging within technology organisations compared to other types of organisations

• Daniela's view on the most pressing issues facing in-house legal that legal ops can address

LINKS:

Daniela Dwyer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniela-dwyer-79280825/

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot provide coronavirus updates from the USA and Australia respectively. They also discuss the Australian Federal government's COVIDSafe app, privacy concerns arising from the app and whether the public benefit is sufficient to outweigh those concerns.

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot chat about Elliot's troubles with his Jabra Elite 65t headphones and whether or not the Apple Airpods would have been a better choice. They also discuss how the legal ops market has changed over the last two decades, including developments in both education and professional services. Finally, they discuss whether talent or opportunity is more important to be successful, and Alex offers his tips for law students and graduates looking for a career in legal ops.

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Stephanie, Alex and Elliot discuss creating a legal ops strategy, including:

• What a legal ops strategy is and how it underpins a legal department's technology and operational plan

• How to develop the plan, including the extent to which it should be a top-down vs bottom-up endeavour

• Why it's important for a legal ops leader to be attuned to the needs of the legal department

• Which stakeholders should be interviewed as part of the planning process and whether that task is best done by internal resources or external consultants

• How to assess your organisation's legal ops maturity

• What to do after your plan has been developed, including how to prioritise different projects and initiatives

• The importance of tracking and reporting your progress

We also discuss Stephanie's role in co-founding CLOC (the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium) and her previous business selling zombie, werewolf and other monster repellents.

LINKS:

Up Level Ops: https://uplevelops.com/

Maturity model: http://uplevelops.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Legal-Ops-Maturity-Model-Self-Assessment-Guide-ULO-Original.pptx

Xakia Legal Operations Health Check: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XakiaLegalOps

Stephanie Corey on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephcorey-ulo

Stephanie Corey on Twitter: https://twitter.com/StephanieACorey

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot discuss the conference landscape - which are being rescheduled, cancelled or moving online. For those which are moving online, are they free or charging admission, and what is the value proposition for attendees and sponsors? And they chat with Jodie Baker, president of the Australian Legal Technology Association, about its upcoming conference ALTAcon.

ALTAcon website: https://www.altacon.com.au/

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot chat about the pros and cons of the Apple Watch, how Alex uses his and whether or not Elliot should get one. The also talk about Zoom, including its soaring market capitalisation, recent security troubles, what "Zoombombing" is and how to guard against it. Then they discuss the economic effects of coronavirus, whether we are headed for a "V", "U" or "L" shaped recovery and why the prominence of legal operations may be set to increase.

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In this episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot give a brief update on how things are changing in Australia and the US in response to the coronavirus pandemic. Alex explains his excitement for the new iPad Pro and tries to convert Elliot away from his MacBook. They also discuss the recent news about Atrium shutting its doors, similarities with Clearspire back in 2014, and why they think these business models aren't working.

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Alex and Elliot discuss Business Continuity Planning, also referred to as “BCP”. This is particularly relevant right now due to the coronavirus pandemic, and is often the responsibility of legal operations functions.

They cover a range of issues that should be addressed as part of any BCP plan, including:

• Technology - for remote access, written communications and virtual meetings

• Allocating resources - how to identify critical activities, manage bandwidth and split teams

• Compliance issues - risk of data breaches, theft, loss and scams

• Leave policies - to cover sickness and carer responsibilities

• Communications - what types of communications should be company-wide, divisional and team specific

• Contractual risk - reviewing contracts for issues such as force majeure, frustration and similar rights

• Other practical tips to prepare for long-term working from home

As a bonus for listeners, check out our handy checklist covering all of the above - link below.

LINKS

Legal Ops BCP checklist: https://bit.ly/2JaoG67

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In the first episode of The Pulse, Alex and Elliot explain what it is, why they're doing it and how it will differ from the core episodes of The Legal Ops Podcast. They talk about coronavirus and the differences between how it is being handled in Australia and the USA. With Alex currently based in Chicago, they discuss his plans and whether or not he wants to, or is even able to, move back to Australia. They touch on cloud vs on-premise software, and the pros and cons of each in the current environment, as well as some of the likely winners and losers in a rapidly changing world.

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Elliot and Alex interview Katrina Gowans to discuss legal transformation and knowledge based working for in-house teams. Katrina is the National Legal Transformation Lead at Origin Energy, a leading provider of energy to homes and businesses in Australia. They covered:

• (5:12) How Katrina became National Legal Transformation Lead

• (9:28) The importance of setting a vision for any transformation plan

• (13:33) Change management considerations

• (16:19) Strategies to “cut through” and get your message to busy people

• (21:22) Overcoming skeptics and change resistors

• (26:44) The next phase - knowledge based working

• (31:59) How to instil cultural change

• (43:58) Maintaining a knowledge base

• (45:50) The future of legal operations

LINKS

Katrina Gowans on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katrina-gowans-40986942/

Centre for Legal Innovation on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/centre-for-legal-innovation/

Centre for Legal Innovation’s website: https://www.cli.collaw.com

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Mitch, Alex and Elliot discuss the idea of Legal Service Balance, including:

(1) What it is and how to achieve it

(2) How to analyse the work done across a law department and group activities according to their risk and alignment to core business

(3) What type of resource should be applied to different work groupings

(4) How organisations are partnering with their law firms to drive innovation, including the example of Microsoft’s Strategic Partner Program

(5) How law firms are responding to the changing market by embedding technology in their service offerings

(6) Atrium, Slater & Gordon and Shine as examples of law firms trying radically different models

(7) Mitch’s view on the future of the legal industry

SPONSOR

This episode is sponsored by the ACC, In-House Counsel Day which is coming up in Melbourne on 4 March 2020. Follow the link below and use the discount code ‘TLOP20’ for 10% off your ticket.

https://bit.ly/2U1fkjr

LINKS

Mitch’s first book, “Avoiding Extinction: Reimagining Legal Services for the 21st Century”: https://amzn.to/396olMW

Mitch’s second book, “The Great Legal Reformation: Notes from the Field”: https://amzn.to/39c2Eez

Daniel Pink’s book, “Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us”: https://amzn.to/2wd1LDQ

Mitch’s website: http://kowalski.ca/

Mitch on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MEKowalski

Mitch on LinkedIn: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/mitchkowalski

Four quadrants diagram: https://bit.ly/2I7OGOT

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Alex and Elliot discuss artificial intelligence in the context of legal practice, including:

(1) How AI is defined and whether it requires human-like intelligence

(2) The difference between AI and other systems such as robotic process automation

(3) How AI is already being used in the legal industry

(4) How AI works and what the difference is between Natural Language Processing and Machine Learning

(5) Alex’s AI-powered chatbot, how it works and how you could build it too

(6) Alex’s and Elliot’s predictions for applications of legal AI that are both futuristic and plausible

SPONSOR

This episode is sponsored by the ACC, In-House Counsel Day which is coming up in Melbourne on 4 March 2020. Follow the link below and use the discount code ‘TLOP20’ for 10% off your ticket.

https://bit.ly/2U1fkjr

LINKS

Alex’s chatbot: https://bit.ly/37wZIrc

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Connie Brenton on LinkedIn

Connie’s cell / mobile phone number: +1 720 394 7399

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Peter Dombkins on LinkedIn

“The New Foundational Skills of the Digital Economy: Developing the Professionals of the Future”, report by the The Business-Higher Education Forum

Beyond 2000 on Wikipedia

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Stephanie Hamon on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/st%C3%A9phanie-hamon-51b6b36/

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Image - Waiting in line in London’s East End:

https://bit.ly/37DfK3V

Image - Statute of fisherman on the roof:

https://bit.ly/2pRBqIK

Image - Networking sign inside the conference:

https://bit.ly/37EMTfV

Link - The University of Law, Msc Legal Technology:

https://www.law.ac.uk/postgraduate/msc-legal-technology/

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Steven Walker on LinkedIn

Change Management on Wikipedia

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Mike’s magic formula:

Rollup = ZOG budget + incremental business demand - Absorption

Mike Haven on LinkedIn

Gap Inc - Wikipedia page

Gap Inc - home page

Corporate Legal Operations Consortium - home page

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We all know the legal industry is changing; but who are the people leading the change and how are they doing it? Elliot and Alex set the scene and provide their thoughts on the state of the legal ops market.

Links Mentioned:
CLOC State of the Industry Survey 2019: https://bit.ly/2OTKsOA

CLOC State of the Industry Survey 2017: https://bit.ly/2uNV9vj