The Human Risk Podcast: Recent Episodes
Human Risk
People are often described as the largest asset in most organisations. They are also the biggest single cause of risk. This podcast explores the topic of 'human risk', or "the risk of people doing things they shouldn't or not doing things they should", and examines how behavioural science can help us mitigate it. It also looks at 'human reward', or "how to get the most out of people". When we manage human risk, we often stifle human reward. Equally, when we unleash human reward, we often inadvertently increase human risk.
Why do we rate everything and why do we do so on a scale of one to five stars? What happens when systems designed to help us make better choices start influencing our behaviour in ways we don’t necessarily notice?
Episode Summary
My guest is Benji Wilson, a journalist, TV critic and author of Rate This Book. Benji’s day job involves rating other people’s work, but when his children pointed out that Rotten Tomatoes was also rating him, it prompted him to investigate the ratings culture that surrounds us. In our conversation, we explore where ratings came from, why the five-star system became dominant and the psychology that makes us pay attention to the opinions of people we’ve never met.
We discuss social proof and the wisdom of crowds, why we often use ratings to avoid making bad decisions rather than to identify the very best option, and what happens when reviews are fake, manipulated or simply unfair.
We also explore the consequences of moving from rating products and services to rating people, including Uber drivers, hospitality workers and doctors, and why a single negative review can have significant consequences.Benji also explains how ratings might have applications in places we wouldn’t necessarily expect, including workplace appraisals and even democracy, where alternative voting systems use ratings to allow people to express more nuanced preferences.
And, appropriately for someone who has written a book called Rate This Book, we discuss what it feels like when the ratings are turned back on you — including why an anonymous three-star review might actually be more useful than a perfect five-star score.
Guest Profile
Benji is a journalist, author and TV critic. His book, Rate This Book, explores how ratings and reviews came to dominate modern life, the psychology that makes them work and what happens when the systems designed to help us make choices begin shaping those choices themselves.
Links
* Benji's website — more about Benji and his work.
* Rate This Book — How Star Ratings Took Over the World, published by New Modern Arcade.
* Rate This Book audiobook — read by Benji Wilson.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — Introduction: why we rate everything
01:45 — Benji’s life as a TV critic and discovering that Rotten Tomatoes was also rating him.
03:30 — Where ratings came from, from our instinct to rank things to the emergence of star ratings.
08:30 — The psychology of ratings: prospect theory, avoiding bad decisions and why we rely on other people’s opinions.
10:15 — Why five stars became the dominant rating system.
16:00 — Experts versus crowds, social proof and why thousands of reviews can feel so persuasive.
20:00 — Fake reviews, manipulated ratings and why critical thinking still matters.
25:00 — What happens when we move from rating products to rating people — and the real-world consequences of negative reviews.
29:30 — Reputation management, review blackmail and whether ratings platforms need greater regulation.
33:30 — Ratings and democracy: could STAR voting offer a less binary way of choosing politicians?38:30 — Workplace appraisals, reciprocal ratings and what happens when a numerical score overwhelms everything else.
43:00 — Uber and how our relationship with rating systems changes over time.
44:30 — What it feels like to have Rate This Book rated — including Benji’s mysterious three-star review.
47:30 — Why three stars may be our most natural — and least useful — rating.
52:30 — How writing the book changed Benji’s own behaviour and why trusted personal recommendations can beat aggregated reviews.
56:30 — Why companies really want our ratings and the commercial incentives behind endless requests for feedback.
01:01:00 — Amazon Vine, gamification and how rating systems can influence the people doing the rating.
01:02:30 — Where to find Benji and Rate This Book, plus the inevitable invitation to rate both the book and the podcast.
What parts of yourself have you learned to hide in order to be taken seriously? My guest on this episode is Mark Heywood,a friend of the show, returning guest and someone I've collaborated with on a number of projects.
Episode Summary & Guest Profile
Mark has spent more than twenty years working in crisis management and operational resilience, while simultaneously building a successful career as a bestselling novelist, screenwriter and, more recently, stand-up comedian.
On the morning we recorded this conversation, Mark published an article marking his fifty-first birthday. In it, he reflected on the pressure many of us feel to present only one version of ourselves professionally, arguing that his creative and corporate lives were never really separate.
As he puts it, they were 'not two jobs, but one obsession wearing two different lanyards.' That simple idea becomes the starting point for a much wider discussion about the stories we tell ourselves, and the stories organisations tell themselves.
Along the way we explore:
* Why "stay in your lane" may say more about other people's expectations than your own potential.
* Why organisations often encourage people to bring their whole selves to work, while rewarding conformity.
* What interviews, dress codes and organisational culture reveal about human behaviour.
* Why stories often influence behaviour more effectively than rules, policies and frameworks.
* What films can teach us about operational resilience, cybersecurity and crisis management.
* Why the Titanic remains one of the most powerful lessons in organisational failure.
* How imagination is a strategic capability rather than a soft skill.
* Why thinking through "severe but plausible" scenarios requires organisations to become better storytellers.
Links
* Mark's birthday article: "A Birthday Declaration from Someone Who Spent Over Twenty Years Pretending to Be Half of Himself" (LinkedIn)
* Mark's Behind The Spine podcast
* The Writing Salon
* Behind The Spine podcast
* Mark on LinkedIn
* Mark's previous appearances on the show talking about The Creative Industries under COVID, and Human Risk in the Creative Industries
* Films, Stories & People Mentioned
+ Die Hard
+ Apollo 13
+ The Martian
+ The Odyssey (Christopher Nolan)
+ Don't Look Up
+ Snakes on a Plane
+ Sharknado
+ Noah's Ark
+ RMS Titanic
+ Rachel Heyhoe Flint
+ Jeremy King
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Why do we hide parts of ourselves to be taken seriously?
03:40 – Mark explains why he stopped separating his creative and corporate identities.
08:00 – Which hobbies and outside interests are considered professionally acceptable—and why?
10:30 – Job interviews, authenticity and bringing your whole self to work.
16:00 – Jeremy King on why behaviour matters more than dress codes.
19:00 – Rachel Heyhoe Flint, the MCC and what institutional rules reveal about culture.
23:00 – Why stories influence behaviour more effectively than rules.
24:00 – The Trojan Horse and using films to teach cybersecurity and resilience.
29:00 – The Titanic as a lesson in organisational resilience rather than maritime history.
32:00 – Conduct versus outcomes: why testing matters more than compliance.
36:00 – Using stories and popular culture to make risk real.
38:00 – Noah's Ark, history and the enduring power of storytelling.
40:30 – CrowdStrike, PPE and why organisations keep repeating the same mistakes.
46:00 – Stories aren't predictions—they're a way of exploring possibility.
49:00 – A ransomware exercise and the danger of relying on fixed policies.
52:00 – Returning to the Titanic: preparing for the inquiry before the crisis.
55:00 – Thinking like an attacker and challenging assumptions about cyber risk.
58:00 – Taylor Swift, insurance and why seemingly ordinary data can become highly sensitive.
1:02:00 – The idea of "risk inflation" and why yesterday's rules aren't enough.
1:10:00 – Why memorable stories change behaviour more effectively than realistic scenarios.
1:15:00 – Reverse stress testing and imagining what could really break an organisation.
1:20:00 – RAG ratings, reporting and the danger of looking resilient instead of being resilient.
1:23:00 – Final reflections on creativity, identity and why being more than one thing is a strength.
When something goes badly wrong, we investigate it. Reports are written. Recommendations are made. Lessons are identified. But do we actually learn them?
Episode Summary
Returning to the show, Gill Kernick joins me to discuss the substantially revised second edition of her book about the Grenfell Tower disaster, following the publication of the Grenfell Inquiry's final report. Gill has a unique perspective on Grenfell. She lived on the 21st floor of the tower before moving out three years before the fire. Professionally, she has spent decades helping organisations in high-hazard industries understand leadership, safety and major accidents.
When Gill first appeared on the podcast, the Inquiry was still underway. Seven years later, its conclusions have revealed an even more disturbing picture—not of one catastrophic mistake, but of systemic failure involving government, regulators, manufacturers, certification bodies and the construction industry.
But this episode isn't just about Grenfell. It's about why organisations struggle to learn from failure, why compliance isn't the same as understanding, why we crave simple explanations for complex problems, and why genuine learning is much harder than writing another report. If you haven't already listened to Gill's previous appearances on the podcast, I'd strongly recommend doing so. Together, the conversations chart how understanding evolves as new evidence emerges.
What you'll learn In this episode
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore:
* Why Gill decided to write a second edition after the Grenfell Inquiry concluded
* The shocking scale of the systemic failures uncovered by the Inquiry
* Why disasters rarely have a single root cause
* The hidden dangers of deregulation and "compliance theatre"
* Why organisations identify lessons but rarely learn them
* The importance of understanding the spirit—not just the letter—of regulation
* Why complexity requires different kinds of leadership
* How AI might help organisations learn lessons in real time
* Why hope is, as Gill puts it, "an act of resistance"
AI-Generated.Timestamp Summary
00:00 – Do we really learn lessons from disasters?
02:45 – Gill's personal connection to Grenfell Tower
05:15 – Why the second edition became necessary after the Inquiry
06:30 – The Inquiry's most shocking findings
10:00 – When regulators knew the risks—but failed to act
12:00 – Implicit trust and why we rely on systems we don't understand
13:00 – Deregulation and the unintended consequences of political narratives
17:00 – Compliance versus understanding the intent behind regulation
20:00 – Why regulations struggle to keep pace with technology and complexity
24:00 – Hope as an act of resistance 25:00 – Why we don't actually learn lessons
27:00 – Is a seven-year inquiry too long?
33:00 – Why "post-Grenfell" reforms miss the real point
37:00 – Communities of grief and change
39:00 – Why Gill rewrote the book instead of writing a new one
44:00 – How the experience changed Gill's own thinking
50:00 – Speaking up in ways that actually get heard
53:30 – Practical advice for learning in complex systems
55:00 – "Lessons learning" instead of "lessons learned"
59:00 – Final reflections
Links
Gill's website, The Grenfell Enquirer
Her book 'Catastrophe & Systemic Change'Gill's LinkedIn:
Her previous show appearances Gill Kernick on the Grenfell Tower Disaster — Part One * Gill Kernick on the Grenfell Tower Disaster — Part Two*
Topics discussed* Grenfell Tower Inquiry – Final Report * The Grenfell Enquirer (articles and resources) * Arup's Building Safety Change Framework
People and ideas mentioned* Dave Snowden (Cognitive Edge) * Cynefin Framework overview
Background incidents referenced* Piper Alpha disaster (Encyclopaedia Britannica) * Lakanal House fire (Wikipedia) * Deepwater Horizon oil spill (Encyclopaedia Britannica)
What does jazz singing have to do with LinkedIn? More than you might think.
This week's guest, Anna Rössler, has built a career helping senior leaders find their voice online while simultaneously developing her own as a singer-songwriter. Rather than separating her professional and creative identities, Anna has found a way to bring them together, and in doing so offers some valuable lessons about authenticity, confidence and human connection.
We explore why so much online content feels performative, how AI is changing the way we communicate, and why the best personal brands aren't really about branding at all. Along the way we discuss experimentation, creativity, stage fright, networking, and the importance of building a life around the things that genuinely energise you.
Whether you're trying to communicate more effectively at work, build a presence online, or simply find more balance between your career and your passions, there's plenty to take away from this conversation.
Episode Summary
On this episode, we discuss:
* Why authenticity is more than simply 'being yourself.'
* How personal branding is really about building trust.
* Why social media should be treated as a conversation, not a broadcast.
* The hidden metrics that matter more than likes and impressions.
* How to use AI without losing your own voice.
* Why experimentation beats chasing algorithms.
* What performing music teaches us about confidence and communication.
* How side passions can make us better professionals.
* Why designing your environment is often more important than motivation.
* The value of creating a life that gives you energy instead of draining it.
Guest Profile
Anna Rössler is a marketing and LinkedIn specialist who helps organisations and senior leaders communicate more effectively through content and personal branding. Alongside her marketing career, she's an accomplished jazz and pop vocalist, songwriter and performer.
Her work sits at the intersection of communication, creativity and authenticity, helping people find a voice that genuinely sounds like them—whether they're posting on LinkedIn or performing on stage.
Follow Anna on LinkedIn and on her personal website.
What happens when two people who spend their careers thinking about human behaviour meet in a London pub and start complaining about conferences? Apparently, they decide to organise one.
Episode Summary
In this episode I'm joined by David Grosse, founder of behavioural risk advisory firm Behavor, to talk about The Unconvention, an event we're creating together that aims to rethink how conversations about risk, culture and human behaviour actually happen. But this isn't just an episode about an event.
David and I explore why organisations continue to treat behavioural risk as a niche topic, despite human decision-making sitting at the heart of almost every organisational failure. We discuss why so many conferences on culture and conduct feel formulaic, why measuring culture through board packs can miss the point entirely, and why stories often reveal far more than statistics ever can.
Along the way we touch on Silicon Valley Bank, Plato's Cave, behavioural science, organisational culture, productive discomfort, and why the best events might leave you with fewer certainties than when you arrived.
If you're curious about The Unconvention, or simply interested in why we think there has to be a better way to have these conversations, I hope you'll enjoy listening.
Links
* David on LinkedIn
* David's company Behavor
* The Unconvention Website and ticketing site.
AI-Generated Timestamped summary
00:00 – Christian introduces the episode and explains how a conversation in a London pub led to the creation of The Unconvention.
02:20 – David shares his journey from chartered accountant and banker to behavioural risk specialist, and explains why human behaviour became the focus of his work.
05:30 – Why behavioural risk still isn't taken as seriously as other forms of risk, despite sitting behind so many organisational failures.
11:30 – Christian and David discuss what's wrong with many industry conferences, from scripted panels to sponsor-led agendas, and why they rarely change anyone's thinking.
18:00 – The conversation turns to culture, governance and why dashboards and board packs can never fully capture human behaviour.
24:30 – Stories, rather than statistics alone, often provide the richest insights into how organisations really work.
29:00 – The origins of The Unconvention and the principles behind creating an event that deliberately breaks with conference convention
35:30 – Why attendees are being invited to help shape the event, and how behavioural thinking has influenced everything from the format to the ticketing model.
42:00 – Christian and David discuss what they hope participants will take away: curiosity, productive discomfort and conversations that continue long after the event ends.
48:45 – Final details on The Unconvention, where to find David, and the unexpectedly simple story behind the name "Behavor".
Why is it so hard to stop people playing vides, music or phone calls out loud on public transport — and what does that tell us about changing human behaviour?
Show Summary
This episode of The Human Risk Podcast is a little different. It is a cross-cast from The Freewheeling Podcast, hosted by Thomas Ableman, in which I join Thomas to tackle a problem raised by the show's most important listener: his mum.
The issue? People using phones, videos, music and speaker calls out loud on trains and buses. What begins as a seemingly small transport etiquette problem quickly becomes a much bigger conversation about social norms, antisocial behaviour, customer experience, incentives, enforcement and the limits of signage. In our discussion, we explore why simply telling people to stop may not work, how reactance can make things worse, and why transport operators need to think more creatively about behaviour change.
Along the way, we consider quiet carriages, “electronic entertainment carriages”, cheap headphones, better-targeted messaging, staff intervention, social media campaigns and the wider question of whether public transport operators are responsible for the behaviour of the humans they carry.
The Freewheeling Podcast
The Freewheeling Podcast is a show for transport change-makers. It explores how we can move forwards faster, bringing listeners fresh voices, new ideas and unconventional thinking.
While it has a strong focus on transport and mobility, the show also ranges into entrepreneurship, politics, public policy, cities and how systems can be designed to work better for the people who use them.
LinksThe Freewheeling Podcast - https://www.freewheeling.info/the-freewheeling-podcast
Thomas on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasableman/
What if the best way to improve cybersecurity — or any other form of human risk — wasn't another policy, training course, or piece of technology, but a board game? That's the kind of question my guest, Jill Wick, loves asking.
Episode Summary
Jill is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, podcaster, and author. Her work sits at the intersection of psychology, marketing, behavioural science, and cybersecurity, and she is passionate about helping organisations understand that security is fundamentally a human challenge, not simply a technical one.
Drawing on her experience in fraud prevention and her academic background in business psychology, Jill explains why traditional approaches to awareness often fail, why experimentation matters, and how a simple Snakes and Ladders-inspired game can create meaningful conversations about risk and decision-making.
The discussion ranges far beyond cybersecurity. We explore creativity, curiosity, communication, organisational culture, social media, learning, and the challenge of measuring success when the outcome you're seeking is something that doesn't happen.
Key Topics
In this episode, we discuss:
* Why cybersecurity is ultimately a human problem rather than a technology problem
* The psychology behind phishing, scams, and social engineering
* Why more policies and more training often fail to change behaviour
* How unclear policies can create confusion instead of compliance
* The role of curiosity, creativity, and experimentation in risk management
* How games can create psychologically safe environments for learning
* The importance of conversation and peer learning in awareness programmes
* What compliance, safety, conduct, and operational risk professionals can learn from cybersecurity awareness
* Why awareness professionals should think more like marketers
* The value of experimentation, iteration, and A/B testing
* How social media can help build communities around important ideas
* Why measuring engagement may be just as important as measuring failures
Guest Biography
Jill Wick is a cybersecurity awareness consultant, business psychologist, author, and podcast host who specialises in the human side of cybersecurity. Drawing on a background in fraud prevention and behavioural science, she helps organisations build stronger security cultures through creative, engaging approaches that go beyond traditional training and compliance. Known for her innovative use of games, psychology, and marketing techniques, Jill is a passionate advocate for making cybersecurity awareness more human, effective, and enjoyable
Links
Jill's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-wick/
Jill's website - https://www.jillwick.com/
Cyber & Psych, Jill's podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/5uteiqHvCTGCVtCsKCzGJ6?si=322ef51fd6a3423c&nd=1&dlsi=c6d8309550784df9
Security-Awareness-Tools, Jill's book - https://www.isbn.de/buch/9783658511111/security-awareness-tools AI-Generated Timestamped Outline
* 00:00 – Introduction
* 02:15 – Jill's background: From fraud prevention and business psychology to cybersecurity awareness.
* 05:30 – Understanding why people fall for scams, phishing attacks, and social engineering.
* 06:00 – Why cybersecurity is fundamentally a human problem, not just a technical one.
* 08:00 – The limitations of rules, policies, and traditional awareness training.
* 12:00 – The origin of Jill's cybersecurity board game and why simplicity matters.
* 14:00 – How games create psychologically safe conversations and improve learning.
* 19:30 – The game as a conversation tool: building culture, peer learning, and engagement.
* 22:00 – Creativity, curiosity, and the courage to experiment with new approaches.
* 26:00 – What cybersecurity awareness can learn from marketing, advertising, and A/B testing.
* 35:30 – Why awareness and technology must work together rather than compete.
* 41:30 – New projects: workshops, events, games, and Jill's forthcoming book Security Awareness Tools.
* 44:00 – Lessons for compliance and risk professionals: attention is a limited resource.
* 51:00 – Measuring success: engagement, participation, reporting, and positive signals.
What can businesses learn from cults?
It might sound like an uncomfortable comparison: one involves strategy meetings, values statements and quarterly targets; the other manipulation, charismatic leaders and extreme behaviour. But perhaps the distinction isn't as clear as we'd like to think. Both create identities and shared beliefs. Both shape how people think and behave. And both can evolve gradually in ways that are hard to recognise from the inside.
Unhealthy cultures rarely appear overnight. Small compromises become normal, difficult questions become harder to ask, and behaviours that once felt uncomfortable slowly become accepted.
Episode Overview
On this episode, I'm joined by Tobias Sturesson, culture advisor and author of You Can Culture, whose understanding of organisational culture comes not from business school, but from a deeply personal experience growing up inside a religious community that gradually evolved into a cult.
Drawing on his own story — and his work helping organisations create healthier cultures — Tobias explains why good people can become part of unhealthy systems, why speaking up is often far harder than leaders realise, and why culture is shaped far less by mission statements than by the everyday behaviours people learn to accept.
We also explore:
* How communities and organisations can slowly drift into unhealthy patterns
* Why leaving damaging environments is often much harder than outsiders imagine
* The role of sunk costs, identity and belonging in keeping people trapped
* Why organisations often mistake symptoms for root causes
* The difference between “tone from the top” and “example from the top”
* Why humility may be one of the most underrated leadership traits
* The dangers of leaders creating the appearance of listening without genuinely hearing people
* Why culture initiatives often fail to create lasting behavioural change
* How everyday leadership habits shape organisational culture
* Why discomfort is often necessary for growth
Guest Profile - Tobias Sturesson
Tobias is a culture advisor, speaker and author focused on helping organisations build healthier cultures and develop more responsible leadership practices. His work combines personal experience with research and practical interventions designed to help organisations identify and address the root causes that undermine cultural health. He is the author of You Can Culture: Transformative Leadership Habits for a Thriving Workplace, Positive Impact and Lasting Success.
Links
Tobias on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiassturesson/
Heart Management - https://www.heartmanagement.org/
Tobias' Book: You Can Culture – https://youcanculture.com/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — Introduction: What can cults teach us about culture?
03:00 — Tobias's story of growing up inside a community that became a cult
08:30 — How unhealthy environments evolve gradually
11:00 — Why leaving can be harder than joining
13:00 — The importance of people who help without judging
16:00 — Turning personal experience into professional purpose
19:00 — Why organisations often misunderstand their own problems
23:00 — Humility as a leadership strength
26:00 — The tension between expertise and curiosity
29:00 — Why business systems often reward the wrong behaviours
33:00 — The importance of listening and asking better questions
38:00 — Why reflection matters in fast-moving environments
42:00 — Culture as everyday conversations and habits
45:00 — Leadership signals and behavioural norms
49:00 — Building healthier cultures through leadership habits
53:00 — Why changing culture is difficult but necessary
56:00 — Creating a movement for healthier leadership
What makes great service? It’s one of those things we instantly recognise when we experience it, but struggle to define. And while organisations spend huge amounts of time trying to design seamless customer experiences, the reality is that service doesn’t happen in strategy documents or training manuals. It happens in real time, between real people, in messy and unpredictable situations where eventually the playbook runs out.
Episode Overview
In this episode, Christian is joined by Will Tarrant, CEO of Freeman Group, who focus on helping organisations close the gap between what they promise customers and what actually gets delivered in reality.
Drawing on decades of experience across hospitality, aviation, healthcare and destinations, Will explains why compliance-based training can sometimes increase hidden risk, why empowerment without judgment can quickly become chaos, and why the real differentiator in service is rarely the process itself — it’s the human response when something unexpected happens.
Along the way, the conversation explores:
* Why “making people feel a certain way” is the real job in hospitality
* The hidden risks created by over-reliance on scripts and SOPs
* Why organisations often confuse solving problems with compensating customers
* The psychology of customer perception and expectation
* How hotels, airports and even destinations manage emotional experiences
* Why breakfast might be the best indicator of a hotel’s quality
* The tension between automation and human interaction
* Why good service recovery is about judgment, not generosity
As Will puts it: “Compliance-based training reduces visible risk, but it increases hidden risk.”
Although framed around hospitality and customer service, this episode is really about something much broader: how humans make decisions when the script no longer applies.
Guest Profile - Will Tarrant
Will Tarrant is the CEO of Freeman Group, a consultancy that helps organisations design and deliver service cultures that align operational reality with brand promise. The company works globally across hospitality, aviation, healthcare, retail and tourism destinations.
LinksWill on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willtarrant/
Freeman Group website - https://freemangroupsolutions.com/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
* 00:00 — Introduction: Why service failures create risk
* 02:30 — Closing the gap between promise and reality
* 07:00 — Hospitality is about making people feel something
* 11:30 — The hidden risk of compliance-based training
* 13:00 — What happens when the playbook runs out
* 15:00 — Scripts, authenticity and service style
* 16:00 — Measuring service quality
* 19:00 — Perception is reality
* 20:00 — Why empowerment needs structure
* 22:00 — Seeing service everywhere
* 24:00 — The timeless mechanics of good service
* 26:00 — Automation versus human interaction
* 29:00 — “The customer is always your customer”
* 30:00 — Solving problems versus compensating customers
* 33:00 — Inheriting other people’s problems
* 36:00 — Hiring for judgment, not just experience
* 39:00 — The changing status of hospitality careers
* 43:00 — Humans as the source of unpredictability
* 47:00 — Why hotel breakfast matters
* 50:00 — Choice overload and decision fatigue
* 53:00 — Applying service thinking beyond hospitality
* 55:00 — The gap between marketing and operational reality
What if prediction isn’t about knowing the future, but controlling it? On this episode, I'm joined by a leading thinker on digital ethics, privacy and technology to explore the idea of prophecy.
Episode Summary
My guest is Dr Carissa Véliz and in our discussion, we talk about humanity’s long-standing obsession with predicting what comes next, and why today’s algorithms may be the most powerful (and dangerous) prophets we’ve ever created.
From ancient oracles and court astrologers to modern AI systems and tech executives, we explore how prediction has always been less about knowledge and more about power. What becomes clear is that while the tools have changed, the underlying dynamics haven’t. We still crave certainty, we still look for authority, and we’re still willing to trust those who claim to see the future. The difference now is scale: predictive technologies don’t just forecast behaviour; they shape it. And the more accurate they appear, the less likely we are to question them.
We then explore responsibility. If prediction influences reality, then our willingness to accept it matters. This episode is a reminder that the future isn’t something that simply happens to us, but something we’re actively participating in, whether we realise it or not.
Guest Bio
Dr Carissa Véliz is Associate Professor of Philosophy at the Institute for Ethics in AI and a Fellow at Hertford College at the University of Oxford. She is a leading thinker on digital ethics, privacy, and technology. She is the author of several books including her latest release 'Prophecy: Prediction, Power and the Fight for the Future, from Ancient Oracles to AI' and 'Privacy Is Power: Why and How You Should Take Back Control of Your Data '
Her work explores how data, AI, and predictive systems reshape society—often in ways that are invisible but deeply consequential. Drawing on philosophy, history, and real-world systems, she examines how power operates through technology and what individuals and institutions can do to resist it.
AI-Generated TImestamped Summary
* [00:00:00] Opening: prediction as something that shapes—not reveals—the future
* [00:01:00] Why prophecy is a lens for understanding modern AI
* [00:04:00] Kings, prophets, and the risks of getting predictions wrong
* [00:06:00] Survival strategies of ancient astrologers
* [00:08:00] Why humans crave certainty—and who exploits it
* [00:10:00] The danger of mistaking wealth for wisdom
* [00:12:00] Prediction as a tool of power throughout history
* [00:14:00] Surveillance as the foundation of modern prediction
* [00:16:00] How predictions shape behaviour (self-fulfilling dynamics)
* [00:17:00] Publishing as a case study in manufactured success
* [00:21:00] The strange economics of pre-orders and attention
* [00:23:00] Insurance: from solidarity to individualised risk
* [00:26:00] The hidden systemic risks of personalised prediction
* [00:30:00] Why citizens need to reclaim agency
* [00:31:00] Laziness vs values: why we default to algorithms
* [00:33:00] Tech creating problems it then claims to solve
* [00:34:00] The role of humour as truth-telling
* [00:35:00] Why algorithms would have killed Seinfeld
* [00:40:00] Practical alternatives: preparation over prediction
* [00:42:00] The importance of serendipity
* [00:43:00] Rediscovering the analogue world
* [00:46:00] Algorithms shaping culture and environments
* [00:48:00] Optimism vs doom in thinking about technology
* [00:50:00] Writing as exploration, not prediction
Links
Carissa's website - https://www.carissaveliz.com/
Her new book, Prophecy - https://www.carissaveliz.com/prophecy
Her previous book Privacy Is Power - https://www.carissaveliz.com/books
Carissa's faculty page - https://www.oxford-aiethics.ox.ac.uk/dr-carissa-veliz
Carissa on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/carissa-v%C3%A9liz-a5781555/
We like to think we choose what matters. But what if the goals we’re chasing… aren’t actually ours?
Episode Summary
My guest on this episode is Dr. C. Thi Nguyen, philosopher and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else’s Game, a book about how metrics, scoring systems, and “games” shape our behaviour—often without us realising it. Thi explains how his work on games led him to a deeper question: why do scoring systems make games feel meaningful, but make real life feel distorted? The answer lies in how metrics redefine success—quietly shifting us from what we care about to what we can measure.
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the idea of “value capture”, why institutions rely on simplified proxies, and how the very features that make metrics useful also make them dangerous. We also discuss expertise, transparency, gamification, and why removing metrics altogether doesn’t solve the problem. This is a conversation about control: who sets the rules, who keeps score, and what happens when we stop questioning the game we’re playing.
Guest Bio
Dr. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work explores how games, metrics, and social systems shape human behaviour and values. A professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, his research sits at the intersection of ethics, decision-making, and the philosophy of agency, with a particular focus on how the structures around us influence what we care about and how we act.
Alongside his academic work, Thi is also a keen gamer, rock climber, and cook; interests that inform his thinking about play, challenge, and the richness of human experience beyond what can be easily measured.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Introduction: games, metrics, and meaning
03:00 – How Thi came to study games and philosophy
07:00 – What games are (and why they matter)
10:00 – Achievement vs striving play
13:00 – Cheating and misunderstanding the point of games
16:00 – Games, struggle, and meaningful activity
18:00 – Cooking, recipes, and rules
22:00 – Metrics as simplified rule systems
25:00 – Value capture and how metrics reshape goals
29:00 – Why institutions rely on measurement
32:00 – Quantification and loss of context
36:00 – Rules, algorithms, and expertise
40:00 – Standardisation and the cost of consistency
43:00 – Transparency, trust, and unintended consequences
47:00 – Metrics and the loss of expert judgment
50:00 – Ungrading and the limits of removing metrics
54:00 – Designing better scoring systems
58:00 – Gamification and why it misses the point
01:02:00 – Choosing your own game
01:06:00 – Final reflections and closing
Relevant Links
Thi’s personal website – https://objectionable.net/
His faculty page - https://profiles.faculty.utah.edu/u6021584
The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else’s Game - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457380/the-score-by-nguyen-c-thi/9780241653975
Thi on Bluesky – https://bsky.app/profile/add-hawk.bsky.social
We tend to assume that if we’re working hard, we’re working well. But what if that isn’t true?
Episode Summary
My guest on this episode is Phil Dobson, author of The Brain Book and founder of Brain Workshops, about what he calls 'cognitive leadership': using neuroscience and psychology to help people sustain performance, think more clearly, and navigate uncertainty. Phil explains how a broken ankle led him from music and sales into hypnotherapy, neuroscience, and leadership development, and why he believes most of us are never properly taught how our brains actually work.
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the difference between productivity and effectiveness, why attention may be our most valuable asset, and how modern working life often undermines flow, creativity, and good decision-making. We also discuss stress, workload, digital distraction, the limits of measurement, and what organisations get wrong when they try to manage people as if more time always equals more value.
Discover how leaders can create better conditions for thinking, resilience, creativity, and change; and why understanding the human brain matters far beyond the workplace.
Episode Summaruy
* why most of us are taught far too little about how our brains work
* Phil’s unusual route from musician to hypnotherapist to neuroscience-based leadership adviser
* the difference between being productive and being effective
* why self-employment sharpened Phil’s focus on impact rather than activity
* how experimentation, iteration, and reflection shape better ways of working
* the distinction between fun and fulfilment
* flow states and why modern life makes them harder to access
* the growing importance of attention in a world of distraction
* why stress management has to include workload management, not just breathing techniques
* how rest, breaks, and so-called “unproductive” time often drive insight and creativity
* why measuring people too narrowly can damage performance
* how understanding the brain helps leaders navigate change and uncertainty
* why improving human decision-making matters not just for performance, but for reducing costly mistakes
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 — Introduction: busyness vs effectiveness
02:00 — Phil’s journey into cognitive leadership
07:00 — Productivity vs effectiveness (and the 80/20 shift)
12:00 — Experimentation, habits, and fulfilment
17:00 — Flow, focus, and attention under pressure
22:00 — Attention as a critical (and under threat) asset
27:00 — Why knowing isn’t the same as doing
31:00 — Rethinking productivity: energy, creativity, and insight
36:00 — The neuroscience of better thinking (default mode network)
40:00 — Measurement, management, and leadership challenges
45:00 — Human performance beyond the workplace
50:00 — Human error, decision-making, and risk
55:00 — Evolving work: shorter weeks and smarter working
58:00 — Leading change with a brain-based approach
01:03:00 — Final reflections and closing
Relevant Links
Phil's website - https://phildobson.com/
Brain Workshops - https://brainworkshops.co.uk/
Phil on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brainworkshops/
The Brain Book - https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Book-Smarter-Concise-Advice/dp/1910649732
What lessons does a religious protest that led to an uprising in 1549 have to do with human risk?
At first glance, not very much. It’s easy to see it as a distant historical event — something about religion, kings, and a very different world. But as my guest, Professor Mark Stoyle explains, the Western Rising of 1549 is far more than that. It’s a powerful example of what happens when authority imposes change without understanding how people will react.
Episode Summary
This episode started on a train journey to Exeter, where I was due to give a talk. Looking for a local story to make my presentation more relevant, I stumbled across a battle that had taken place just outside the venue in 1549. The more I read, the clearer it became that this wasn’t just history, it was a case study in compliance, behaviour, and unintended consequences.
Guest Profile
Mark is a historian and leading expert on what he calls the Western Rising of 1549. In this conversation, we explore how sweeping religious changes imposed by those in power triggered resistance, how small incidents escalated into a major rebellion, and why identity, belief, and emotion played such a critical role. Along the way, we discuss how history is written (and biased), why changing language can provoke outrage rather than acceptance, and what this story reveals about leadership, risk, and human behaviour today.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Introduction: a compliance failure in 1549
01:00 – The train journey to Exeter
02:00 – Discovering the rebellion
04:00 – Why this is a human risk story
05:15 – Introducing Professor Mark Stoyle
07:30 – Setting the historical context
10:00 – Power, authority, and instability
13:30 – What triggered the rising
17:00 – Why language change caused outrage
22:00 – Early resistance and local incidents
25:00 – The tipping point: violence begins
29:00 – How the rebellion spreads
33:00 – The siege of Exeter
37:00 – How history is written by the victors
41:00 – Crushing the rebellion
45:00 – Cultural consequences and language loss
48:00 – Lessons for today
52:00 – Polarisation and modern parallels
57:00 – Final reflections In this episode we discuss
Key Topics
* Why imposed change can trigger resistance
* How small incidents escalate into major crises
* The role of identity, belief, and emotion in decision-making
* Why language and culture matter in compliance
* How authority can misjudge human behaviour
* The dangers of polarisation and “us vs them” thinking
* Why compromise becomes impossible in extreme positions
* How history is shaped by those who win
* The unintended consequences of leadership decisions
* What a 16th-century rebellion teaches us about modern risk
Guest Profile
Mark Stoyle is Professor of History at the University of Southampton. He specialises in Tudor rebellions, the English Civil War, and the history of witchcraft. Originally from Devon, his work on the Western Rising of 1549 draws on decades of research and a deep personal connection to the region where these events took place.
Links
The Western Rising of 1549, Mark's book - https://yalebooks.co.uk/book/9780300276886/the-western-rising-of-1549/
Mark's University of Southampton profile page - https://www.southampton.ac.uk/people/5wyxqy/professor-mark-stoyle
Mark's publisher profile: - https://www.worldturnedupsidedown.co.uk/team/mark-stoyle/
What exactly is a sign? At first glance, that might sound like a strange question. Signs are everywhere: telling us where to go, what to do, what not to do, and sometimes what might happen if we ignore instructions. But as my guest, Jeffrey Ludlow Saentz explains, signs are much more than bits of information on walls or beside roads.
Episode Summary
Jeffrey is a signage designer who works on complex buildings and environments around the world — airports, offices, museums, and other places where helping people find their way really matters. He’s also the author of A Sign Is..., a fascinating book exploring the history, meaning, and cultural significance of the signs that shape our everyday behaviour.
In this conversation, we explore why good signage is often invisible, how buildings “speak” to us through wayfinding systems, and what signs reveal about power, trust, and human behaviour. Along the way we discuss hacked traffic signs, casino design, airport navigation, and why something as simple as an arrow carries centuries of history.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Introduction: why signs are more interesting than they first appear
03:00 – How Jeffrey became a signage designer
04:00 – The challenge of helping people navigate complex buildings
07:00 – What actually is a sign?
09:00 – Why “everything can be a sign”
11:00 – The power dynamics behind signage and authority
13:00 – How designers observe signage in the real world
14:30 – Cultural differences in wayfinding and navigation
19:30 – Why Jeffrey wrote A Sign Is..
22:00 – The fascinating history of fire safety signage
24:00 – Curiosity and the stories hidden behind everyday signs
27:00 – Hacked construction signs and unexpected messages
31:00 – Trust, authority, and information on signs
35:00 – Advertising, nudging, and attention
36:00 – Information overload and competing signals
39:00 – The learned language of signs and symbols
41:00 – Why good signage is “invisible” when it works
43:00 – Airports, trust, and wayfinding design
46:00 – How people become signage designers
47:30 – How casinos, airports, and museums use signs differently
50:00 – The psychology of navigation
54:00 – Why signage can’t work perfectly for everyone
57:00 – Why wayfinding is an art rather than a science
01:02:00 – Jeffrey’s book A Sign Is and where to find it
01:04:00 – What signs might look like in the future In this episode we discuss
Key Topics
* Why signage is a form of behavioural communication
* How buildings “talk” to people through wayfinding systems
* The psychology of navigation and spatial awareness
* Why good signage is invisible
* How casinos deliberately make navigation harder
* Why museums minimise signs while airports maximise them
* The cultural differences in how places are navigated
* What hacked traffic signs reveal about trust in authority
* Why signs act as nudges that shape behaviour
* The limits of signage when designing for large groups
* How digital navigation may change our relationship with physical signs
About Jeffrey
Jeffrey Ludlow is a signage and wayfinding designer and founder of Point of Reference Studio, a design practice specialising in signage systems, environmental graphics, and branding for public environments. Trained as an architect, Jeffrey’s work sits at the intersection of architecture, graphic design, and behavioural psychology — helping people navigate complex spaces more intuitively. He is the author of A Sign Is, a book exploring the cultural, historical, and behavioural significance of the signs that surround us.
Links
Jeffrey's book 'A Sign Is...' - https://oroeditions.com/product/a-sign-is
Point of Reference, the Madrid-based studio Jeffrey founded - https://pointofreference.studio/
What Can a Cocktail Teach Us About Curiosity and Creativity? At first glance, documenting Negronis around the world might sound like a frivolous hobby. But could a simple cocktail become a vehicle for curiosity, experimentation and creative thinking?
On this episode, I speaks with geopolitical strategist Marc A Ross about an unusual passion project: ordering and documenting Negronis wherever he travels. What began as a casual habit has evolved into a magazine-style project called 50 Negronis, capturing cocktails from elegant bars to chaotic airport lounges. Along the way, the project has revealed something deeper about travel, culture and the value of experimentation.
But as the conversation unfolds, it becomes clear this episode isn’t really about cocktails. Instead it’s about how curiosity leads to discovery, why creative side projects matter, and how experimentation can enrich both our professional and personal lives.
Curiosity Starts With Small Experiments
Marc’s Negroni project began almost accidentally. While travelling frequently for his work as a geopolitical strategist, he started ordering Negronis and photographing them. What made the idea interesting wasn’t a search for the perfect drink.
Instead, Marc documented the entire experience — the great cocktails, the mediocre ones, and the truly terrible ones. That curiosity created a lens through which to experience the world differently. Bars became places for conversation, experimentation and discovery, and the project grew into a collection of stories from cities across the globe.
Creativity Through Play
A key theme of the conversation is the importance of playfulness. Marc deliberately avoids treating the project too seriously. The photos are simple smartphone snapshots, the documentation is intentionally loose, and the goal isn’t perfection.
That approach mirrors how many creative projects evolve; by removing the pressure to produce something “definitive,” the project becomes an experiment. And in the process, it becomes easier to create, learn and iterate.
Authenticity, Communication and Personality
We also explore how side projects can sharpen professional skills. Marc argues that communicators, leaders and even politicians should experiment creatively and share aspects of their personality. Authenticity matters. Whether it’s documenting cocktails, running unconventional events, or experimenting with new formats, people connect more with ideas that feel genuine. Sometimes the most powerful way to communicate is simply to follow an idea that genuinely interests you.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – A cocktail as a conversation starter
Introduction; why Negronis might seem like an unusual topic for a podcast about human behaviour and yet…
02:00 – Recording in Sundance, Utah
Marc describes the Brigadoon gathering and its focus on conversation rather than traditional conference formats.
04:00 – The origins of the Negroni
Marc explains the history of the cocktail and why it remains a classic drink.
07:00 – The “50 Negronis” project
A disappointing airport Negroni sparks the idea of documenting the drinks Marc encounters while travelling.
10:00 – Capturing cocktails around the world
Marc explains how he photographs the drinks and records the ingredients when possible.
13:00 – Cocktail culture and experimentation
They discuss how bartenders experiment with ingredients and create new variations.
18:00 – Why the details don’t matter
The project becomes less about recipes and more about stories, places and experiences.
22:00 – Learning through experimentation
Christian reflects on how creative side projects can help people learn and explore new ideas.
30:00 – Lessons for communicators and politicians
Marc explains why authenticity and personality matter in leadership.
37:00 – Staying curious and having fun
The conversation turns to persistence, creativity and the value of pursuing ideas simply because they’re interesting.
42:00 – Where to follow Marc’s work
Marc shares details about Brigadoon events and his geopolitical newsletter.
Links Caracal Global, Marc’s consultancy and advisory firm - https://www.caracal.global/
Brigadoon, Marc’s series of lovingly curated events - https://www.brigadoon.live/
Marc on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcaross/
Marc’s previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/marc-ross-on-communication-strategy/
Sundance Mountain Resort - https://www.sundanceresort.com/
What’s the difference between a mistake… and a bad decision? My guest knows this only too well. Tom Hardin has been on the show several times before. As Tipper X, he wore a wire for the FBI and helped build the largest insider trading investigation in US history.
Since then, he has spent nearly a decade speaking to organisations around the world about slippery slopes, rationalisation, and how good people drift into serious trouble. In this episode, he returns to discuss his new book, Wired on Wall Street.
The book goes beyond the insider trading case many listeners already know. It explores the ambition, insecurity and desire for status that shaped his early career, and the patterns he only recognised years later when writing it down.
For the first time on a podcast, Tom is also joined by his wife, Sue. She played no role in the trades that changed his life, but her life was dramatically altered by them. She reflects on discovering the truth, keeping a secret that wasn’t hers, facing sentencing uncertainty, and what it means to rebuild together. This conversation isn’t really about insider trading; it’s about character.
Key Themes
* Why calling something a “mistake” can soften accountability
* The psychology of slippery slopes and rationalisation
* Status anxiety and the need to belong
* Resume virtues vs eulogy virtues
* Shame versus guilt — and why the distinction matters
* The hidden impact of ethical failure on spouses and families
* What writing a book can reveal that telling a story on stage cannot
* The freedom that comes from having nothing left to hide
Tom’s story is unusual; the human dynamics behind it are not.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary00:00 – More than insider trading
Why this conversation is about character — guilt vs shame, mistakes vs bad decisions, and the cost of ethical drift.
02:30 – The story in brief
Tom recaps becoming “Tipper X” and helping build the largest insider trading investigation in US history.
03:15 – Why write the book now?
After a decade of speaking, Tom explains what finally pushed him to put the full story — childhood, ambition, insecurity — on paper.
08:00 – The deeper pattern
From Georgia to the Ivy League to hedge funds: the outsider mindset, status anxiety, and the slippery slope.
16:00 – Small decisions, big consequences
Early corner-cutting, rationalisation, and the fraud triangle in action.
26:00 – Resume virtues vs eulogy virtues
How Tom’s definition of success changed — and the difference between shame and guilt.
31:00 – A simple test for integrity
One question that could replace most Codes of Conduct:
Are you willing to be held accountable for this decision?
Sue’s Perspective
40:30 – The night she found out
Shock, disbelief, and the future collapsing in an instant.
44:00 – Keeping a secret that wasn’t hers
White lies, reputational fear, and the strain of silence.
49:00 – Sentencing day
Why she insisted on being there — no matter the outcome.
52:30 – Reinvention and resilience
Stay-at-home dad years, ultramarathons, and rebuilding a life together.
Links
Wired on Wall Street: www.tipperx.com/book
Tipper X Website: www.tipperx.com
Tom's previous appearances on the show:
Tom's experience as FBI Informant Tipper X - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-his-experience/
Turning Crime Into A Calling - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-turning-a-crime-into-a-calling/
Tom's Substack: https://substack.com/@tipperx
Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tipperx/
What happens when someone runs with a business idea they've heard as a thought experiment on a podcast? Can a business have an expletive in its name? And is it possible to run a business that sells a single very specific product?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined by Charlie Hurst, Tom Noble and Will Sudlow — the founders of Flat White or F*ck Off*, a coffee brand inspired by a thought experiment by friend of the show,Rory Sutherland. The concept is simple: sell one thing — flat whites — and if you want something else… the answer’s in the name.
⚠️ *Given the name of the business, this episode contains a lot of swearing!
Within four months of hearing the idea on Jamie Laing’s Great Company podcast, they’d banded together — having never met but being isnpired to give the business a go — built a brand, grown an audience of tens of thousands, and served 1,500 flat whites in a single day at a London pop-up.
Most people would've treated Rory's idea as an interesting thought experiment. But Charlie, Tom and Will decided — with Rory's blessing — to actually build it.
In an extended conversation, we explore what it means to:
* Build a brand before you have a product
* Grow an audience before you open a shop
* Share your financials publicly
* Deliberately polarise rather than please
Discover why Charlie, Tom and Will spent £22,000 on a one-day loss-making pop-that served as a live experiment; part marketing, part proof of concept, part behavioural case study.
We discuss why constraint can be liberating, why queues affect perceived quality, how social proof shapes demand, and why narrowing your audience can be more powerful than trying to attract everyone.
This isn’t just a story about coffee. It’s about conviction, creative constraint and what happens when you deliberately ignore conventional business wisdom.
Guest Bios Charlie Hurst
Designer and brand builder. Charlie created the original visual identity for Flat White or F*ck Off after seeing Rory’s idea online.
Tom Noble
Entrepreneur and digital builder. Tom documented the entire journey in public, helping grow the brand’s audience before a single coffee was sold.
Will Sudlow
Co-founder of experiential agency The Impossible. Will brought production expertise to turn the idea into a large-scale pop-up event.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – From Thought Experiment to Real Business: why this is more than a coffee story.
03:00 – Hearing Rory’s Idea: how Charlie, Tom and Will discovered the concept and decided to act on it.
08:00 – Building in Public: growing an audience before having a physical product; documenting everything online.
15:00 – One Product Only: why selling just flat whites is a strategic constraint — and a behavioural signal.
25:00 – The Pop-Up Experiment: erving 1,500 coffees in a day; spending £27,000 as a marketing investment.
35:00 – Polarisation & Backlash: criticism, online sceptics and why not being for everyone is the point.
50:00 – Perception, Queues & Behaviour: what they learned about speed, quality signals and social proof.
01:05:00 – Risk, Conviction & Entrepreneurship: why building something in public is both terrifying and liberating.
01:20:00 – What Happens Next: scaling, experimentation and staying true to the core idea.
LinksRory on Jamie Laing’s Great Company podcast - https://shows.acast.com/great-company/episodes/rory-sutherland
Flat White or F*ck Off - https://flatwhiteorfckoff.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/flatwhiteorfckoff/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@flatwhiteorfckoff/
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/flat-white-or-fck-off/
The co-founders
Tom on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasnoble1992/ Charlie on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlie-hurst-715364150/
Will on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/willsudlow/
Ask The Impossible - https://asktheimpossible.com/
Rory's appearances on this show:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/ https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-paul-craven-at-abbey-road-part-one/
What if we stopped telling women how to stay safe, and started asking why violence against them keeps happening in the first place? On this episode, I’m joined for a second time, by Amy Watson, the founder of social enterprise HASSL. She’s trying to tackle violence against women and girls at its root. Not with another awareness campaign or safety app. But by building a global movement designed to shift responsibility away from women, and onto society.
Overview
When Amy first joined the podcast a year ago, we discussed the scale and reality of violence against women. A year on, she returns to talk about what it actually takes to tackle it.
In just twelve months, her social enterprise HASSL has grown into a global prevention movement: more than half a million followers, thousands of volunteers across over 120 countries, and campaigns reaching millions of people organically.
But this isn’t just a story about social media growth. It’s about culture change. In an extended and wide-ranging disucssion, we explore why laws alone don’t solve systemic problems, why “stay safe” advice can unintentionally reinforce the wrong narrative, and what happens when you apply entrepreneurial thinking to one of society’s most entrenched issues.
This is a conversation about scale, backlash, risk and moral ambition, and about what it means to build something that refuses to compromise.
Guest Bio - Amy Watson
Amy is the founder of HASSL, a global social enterprise tackling harassment at the root.
HASSL focuses on prevention — shifting responsibility for violence away from women as individuals and onto the cultural and systemic factors that enable harm. Combining research, education and partnerships, it aims to create scalable, long-term change rather than short-term fixes.
In just over a year, HASSL has grown into a global movement with hundreds of thousands of followers and volunteers across more than 120 countries.
Amy’s work sits at the intersection of social justice and entrepreneurship, applying business thinking to one of society’s most entrenched problems.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Intro: From Problem to Action
Christian frames this follow-up as a shift from discussing violence against women to exploring what it takes to tackle it in practice.
02:00 – What HASSL Stands For
Amy explains HASSL’s prevention-first approach: shifting responsibility away from women and onto culture, systems and male behaviour.
05:00 – Scaling a Social Enterprise
Rapid global growth, research-driven strategy, sustainable funding streams and a structured five-stage plan.
08:30 – Education & Engaging Men
Launch of free education resources, bystander tools and conversation frameworks designed to invite men into the solution.
16:00 – Entrepreneurship, Risk & Moral Ambition
Applying startup thinking to social change; sacrificing financial ambition for impact; long-term vision over quick wins.
35:00 – Values, Independence & Leadership
Why Amy avoids outside investment, refuses to compromise on inclusivity, and builds operational resilience into the organisation.
58:30 – Backlash & Online Abuse T
rolling, hate messages and the deliberate disruption of a webinar — and what that reveals about cultural normalisation.
01:05:00 – Using Criticism as Leverage
Turning recurring myths (“false accusations”, “what about men?”) into educational opportunities and narrative shifts.
01:21:00 – Barriers to Reporting Why speaking out rarely benefits women; the structural and social costs involved.
01:37:00 – Building a Movement How listeners can engage — and why lasting change requires persistence, scale and collective responsibility.
Links
Amy’s previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/amy-watson-on-violence-against-women/
HASSL - hassl.uk
Moral Ambition by Rutger Bregman - https://www.moralambition.org/book
Who determines what 'good' Compliance actually looks like? The obvious answer is regulators (and in some jurisdictions) prosecutors. But what if it were the regulated Firms themselves? That's the idea behind purpose-driven compliance, which I'm exploring on this episode.
Episode Summary
To explore this, I'm joined by Veronica Root Martinez, Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, to explore a deceptively simple but unsettling idea: 100% compliance is impossible. While we often behave as though perfect compliance is the goal — and in some safety-critical domains it must be — most organisational compliance involves humans. And humans make mistakes. Things get missed. Context changes. Stuff goes wrong.
So if perfection isn’t realistic, the real question becomes: how do organisations decide what really matters? The traditional answer has been to look outward — to regulators, enforcement authorities, and in some jurisdictions (particularly the US), prosecutors. Their priorities, expressed through sentencing guidelines, enforcement actions, and settlements, end up defining what “good” compliance looks like.
Veronica challenges that logic. She argues that this gets things the wrong way round. Instead of letting enforcement priorities dictate behaviour, she makes the case for purpose-driven compliance — where organisations set their own priorities based on their purpose, values, and actual risks, rather than chasing shifting regulatory expectations. Along the way, the conversation explores culture, human judgment, psychological safety, technology, experimentation, and why “best practice” can sometimes make things worse rather than better.
This episode is for anyone who writes rules, enforces them — or simply has to live under them.
Guest Biography
Veronica Root Martinez is a Professor of Law at Duke University School of Law, where she researches corporate compliance, ethics, and organisational culture. Her work on purpose-driven compliance challenges enforcement-led models and explores how organisations can set priorities based on their own purpose, values, and risks.
Before entering academia, Veronica practised as an associate at a large law firm in Washington, DC, where she worked on regulatory and white-collar matters — experience that strongly informs the practical orientation of her research. Links
Professor Veronica Root Martinez – Faculty Profile
https://law.duke.edu/fac/martinez
Veronica on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/veronica-root-martinez/
Purpose-Driven Compliance (paper discussed in the episode)
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6078766
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – 02:00 | “Because they said so”
Christian reframes compliance as a universal human experience — not just a professional discipline — and introduces the problem of rules justified solely by regulatory expectation.
02:00 – 05:30 | Why 100% compliance is impossible
Veronica explains why modern organisations cannot realistically achieve perfect compliance when humans are involved — and why pretending otherwise creates problems.
05:30 – 10:30 | Tolerated misconduct and cultural drift
How allowing “small” rule-breaking can escalate into bigger issues, drawing on behavioural ethics and real-world corporate failures.
10:30 – 14:30 | Risk, prioritisation, and what really matters
A discussion of risk-based thinking, irrecoverable vs recoverable errors, and why organisations — not regulators — are best placed to set priorities.
14:30 – 18:30 | Enforcement swings and resilience
Why compliance programmes built around enforcement trends are fragile, expensive, and reactive — and how purpose-driven approaches create stability. 18:30 – 23:30 | Innovation, uncertainty, and guardrails
Why regulators are always behind innovation — and how values-based guardrails help employees make decisions in uncharted territory.
23:30 – 30:30 | Technology, AI, and the human in the loop
The limits of automation, the danger of over-reliance on tech, and why human judgment remains essential.
30:30 – 36:30 | Rules, loopholes, and malicious compliance
How overly detailed rulebooks create loopholes — and why purpose and principles offer a better basis for accountability.
36:30 – 40:30 | The Costco example
A powerful illustration of simplicity: four ethical principles that employees can actually understand and use.
40:30 – 45:30 | Training, regulators, and unintended consequences
Why blanket training requirements often miss the mark — and how enforcement agreements can accidentally undermine effectiveness.
45:30 – 52:30 | Measuring culture and compliance effectiveness
Moving beyond counting inputs to assessing outputs, including psychological safety, Speak Up systems, and cultural indicators.
52:30 – 57:30 | Experimentation and learning
Why failed interventions aren’t failure — they’re information — and why compliance should be treated as an evolving experiment.
57:30 – End | Reclaiming responsibility
A closing reflection on extrinsic motivation, “because I said so,” and why purpose-driven compliance offers a more human, defensible, and sustainable way forward.
As Artificial Intelligence (AI) gets smarter and tkaes over more tasks, what happens to human dynamics like trust, transparency, leadership and empathy. How can humans and machines wowrk togehter effectively? And how can leaders lead in this new world?
Episode Summary
AI is often discussed as a technical challenge, but the more interesting question is how it impacts humans and how we will interface with them. As AI becomes part of the world we’re navigating, it raises deeply human questions about trust, transparency, confidence, and how we relate to systems we don’t fully understand.
On this episode, I'm joined by Professor Tina Weisser, a leading thinker on human–AI collaboration, systems thinking, and organisational behaviour under uncertainty. Together, we explore why trust isn’t something we can engineer into technology, why uncertainty isn’t a problem to be eliminated, and what AI may be revealing about human behaviour, rather than the other way around. This conversation is less about what AI can do, and more about what it does to us.
Guest Profile
Professor Tina Weisser is a Professor at the Munich University of Applied Sciences and a member of the Munich Center for Digital Sciences and Artificial Intelligence (MUC-DAI). Her work focuses on human–AI collaboration, systems thinking, service design, and how organisations adapt under conditions of complexity and uncertainty.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
00:00 – AI as a human problem, not a technical one
04:00 – Tina’s path into human–AI collaboration
12:00 – Why uncertainty is unavoidable (and necessary)
18:00 – We haven’t mastered work — and now we’re adding AI
23:00 – From tools to agents: why this feels different
29:00 – Trusting actions, not facts
35:00 – Ethics, fear, and human inconsistency
42:00 – What this means for students, skills, and learning
49:00 – “Let AI handle the data — humans handle the room”
55:00 – Being right too early doesn’t help
1:01:00 – AI as a mirror of humanity
Episode Links
Tina's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tinaweisser/
Tina's website - www.tinaweisser.com
Munich Center for Digital Sciences & AI (MUC-DAI) - http://mucdai.hm.edu
What lies behind Romance Fraud? Romance fraud is one of the fastest-growing forms of fraud worldwide, and one of the most emotionally devastating. It’s also one of the most misunderstood.
On this episode, I’m speaking to Becky Holmes, author of the bestselling book Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love With You. Becky didn’t become interested in romance fraud through victimhood or research. She stumbled into it during the pandemic after being approached by scammers online — and instead of ignoring them, she decided to wind them up.
What began as a joke — sending absurd messages, inventing ridiculous scenarios, and pushing scam scripts to breaking point — turned into something much more serious. Through humour, Becky uncovered the psychological mechanics of romance fraud: how trust is built, how isolation and gaslighting work, and why believing you’re “too smart to fall for it” is often the most dangerous belief of all.
In this conversation, we explore why laughing at scammers is not the same as blaming victims, why romance fraud closely mirrors patterns seen in abusive relationships, and why shame — not stupidity — keeps people trapped. We also talk about humour as a gateway to learning, the limits of victim-focused storytelling, and the uncomfortable truth that none of us are immune. This is a funny conversation in places. And then it isn’t.
This is not the first time the Human Risk Podcast has explored romance fraud. On a previous episode, I spoke with Anna Rowe, a victim of romance fraud, about the profound emotional and psychological impact of being deceived by someone you believed you loved.
In this episode, we discuss:
* Why romance fraud is a psychological scam, not a technical one
* How humour can expose manipulation without mocking victims
* The striking parallels between romance fraud and abusive relationships
* Isolation, gaslighting, and shame as tools of control
* Why “it would never happen to me” is such a dangerous belief
* The role of AI, deepfakes, and evolving scam tactics
* Why fraud literacy matters — and why people don’t seek it out until it’s too late
* The emotional cost of online exposure and harassment
* What institutions, platforms, and society still get wrong about fraud
Guest Profile
Becky Holmes is an author, speaker, and writer specialising in fraud, online manipulation, and digital harm. Her first book, Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love With You, explores the world of romance fraud through humour, storytelling, and lived experience.
Her second book, The Future of Fraud, examines how scams are evolving in a world shaped by AI and digital identity.
Links and resources
Becky’s first book Keanu Reeves Is Not in Love With You - https://share.google/fKQ6qCL1l8Ygl1ey2
* The Future of Fraud her second (out April 2026) - https://share.google/fKQ6qCL1l8Ygl1ey2
* Becky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beckyholmeshatesspinach/
* Becky on Instagram: Becky Holmes (@deathtospinach)
* Becky on Twitter/X: https://x.com/deathtospinach?
* Becky’s book agent profile: https://www.curtisbrown.co.uk/client/becky-holmes
* Previous Human Risk Podcast episode with Anna Rowe* on being a victim of romance fraud: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/anna-rowe-on-romance-scams/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Why romance fraud matters
Christian explains why the podcast is returning to romance fraud, linking this episode to an earlier conversation with victim Anna Rowe (linked in the show notes).
02:00 – How Becky Holmes got into romance fraud
Becky describes how being approached by scammers during lockdown — and deciding to wind them up — accidentally turned into deep expertise.
05:00 – When jokes expose the script
Absurd replies, fake crime scenes, and the moment Becky realised scammers weren’t reading messages, just following scripts.
09:00 – Laughing at scammers, not victims
Why humour can highlight manipulation without blaming those who fall victim — and how the book shifts from comedy to something much darker.
14:00 – Romance fraud as psychological abuse
The parallels with abusive relationships: isolation, gaslighting, shame, and why people stay, return, or fall again.
21:00 – “It would never happen to me”
Why believing you’re too smart to fall for romance fraud is often the biggest risk of all.
28:00 – What the media gets wrong
Victim-focused storytelling, ignored systems, and why AI, deepfakes, and scam scripts matter more than headlines.
36:00 – Fraud literacy and prevention
Why people don’t seek out information about fraud until it’s too late — and how humour can be a gateway to awareness.
45:00 – The personal cost of online exposure
Online harassment, cyberflashing, and the emotional toll of spending years inside the systems you’re critiquing.
55:00 – What’s next for Becky
Upcoming books, speaking work, and where to find her online.
Why do we struggle to talk about grief? Why that matters and what we can do about it, is the subject of this episode.
Summary
Grief is something almost all of us will experience, and yet something we still struggle to talk about openly. Not because it’s rare, but because it makes us uncomfortable. We lack a shared language for it, feel uneasy about how long it lasts, and often don’t know how to sit with people who don’t simply “move on”.
On this episode, I'm joined by Amy Kean, founder of Good Shout, for a deeply human conversation about grief, work, identity, and what it really means to give people space to be themselves.
Amy has been on the podcast before. Since first encountering her work, I have been consistently inspired by her willingness to be unashamedly herself: thoughtful, curious, and open about experiences many of us keep hidden. When she recently shared reflections on grief on LinkedIn, it sparked a desire to invite her back; not for a tightly structured discussion, but for a conversation that could explore the wider dynamics around loss.
What follows is an unusual episode. It begins with grief, but moves into related territory: compassionate leave versus compassionate return, what actually helps when someone is struggling, why workplaces are often so bad at dealing with loss, and why talking about difficult things might be one of the most important human skills we have.
Rather than offering neat frameworks or tidy conclusions, this conversation creates space; for reflection, for discomfort, and for honesty.
If you’ve experienced loss, this episode may offer comfort or recognition. If you haven’t, it may give you insight into how to show up better for others when the time comes. And above all, it helps normalise the idea that grief is not something to be hidden or hurried past, but something we should be able to talk about.
The episode is dedicated to Amy’s dad, Lord Terence Kean.
Relevant Links
Good Shout, Amy's company — https://goodshoutcommunity.com/
Amy on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/amycharlottekean/
Amy’s previous appearance on the show talking aboiut Communicating Effectively —
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/amy-kean-on-communicating-effectively/
Death of an Ordinary Man by Sarah Perry —
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/60324067-death-of-an-ordinary-man
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
01:05 – Why Amy, why now
03:40 – Remembering Amy’s dad
08:30 – Double grief and anticipatory loss
10:40 – Stroke, hope, and uncertainty
14:40 – Grief, work, and performance
17:35 – Naming emotions out loud
22:05 – Talking about grief on LinkedIn
27:40 – Compassionate return
30:05 – The cognitive cost of grief
33:05 – Why we don’t talk about death
35:05 – How to help someone who’s grieving
41:05 – Creativity, curiosity, and grief
49:05 – AI, voice, and being human
53:05 – Shameless and deathbed economics
01:02:00 – Final reflections and dedication
Are we losing our ability to think critically as we rely more on AI?
Episode Summary
My guest is social psychologist Dr Guy Champniss to explore the role of behavioural science in business and the emerging challenges of AI in the workplace. We discuss why behaviour change is so hard to sell, the myth that behavioural science is only needed when everything else fails, and how organisations often overlook the human factors in transformation. Guy brings deep insight into how behavioural science is perceived inside organisations—often as a last resort when more traditional methods fail.
We examine why that is, and how a better understanding of human behaviour can actually de-risk strategy, improve engagement, and lead to more successful outcomes. We also explore the psychology of AI: how we trust it, how we interact with it, and what we might be losing in the process. From loss of credibility and collaboration among employees, to the risks of over-automation and cognitive offloading, the conversation raises timely questions about what kind of future we're building, and how prepared we really are.
You'll hear thoughtful takes on the challenges of selling behavioural science, powerful metaphors to help reframe the debate, and real-world examples from the classroom to the call centre. If you’re curious about the intersection of technology, psychology, and organisational behaviour, this is a must-listen.
About Guy Champniss
Dr Guy Champniss is a social psychologist and behavioural science practitioner. He teaches at IE Business School in Madrid and consults through Meltwater Consulting. Guy’s current work focuses on how AI is changing human behaviour in organisations—particularly its impact on trust, agency, and critical thinking. He’s also worked extensively in the sustainability space, helping businesses drive lasting behavioural change.
AI Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] – Intro to Dr Guy Champniss and sets up the discussion around behavioural science and AI.
[00:03:30] – Behavioural Science’s Struggle for AcceptanceWhy it’s often brought in too late and why it needs itself to be sold effectively.
[00:10:00] – Organisational Blind SpotsHow businesses resist behaviour-led approaches and prefer short-term fixes.
[00:17:30] – From Sustainability to AIGuy’s journey into exploring the psychology of AI at work.
[00:24:00] – AI and Human CredibilityWhat happens when AI performs better than people, and how that undermines trust.
[00:30:00] – Trust and Bias in AIWhy we trust AI more when it agrees with us and the dangers that brings.
[00:38:00] – AI’s Impact on CollaborationHow automation can quietly erode teamwork and critical thinking.
[00:45:00] – Students and AIWhat AI use in classrooms reveals about thinking, learning, and shortcuts.
[00:52:00] – The Real Future of WorkWhy it’s not AI replacing jobs—but people who know how to use it.
[00:56:00] – Language, Labels, and ResponsibilityThe power of how we talk about tech and what it signals.
Links
Meltwater Consulting, Guy's firm - https://www.meltwater-consulting.com/drguychampniss
Guy on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/guychampniss/
His academic profile at IE Business School - https://rhe.ie.edu/speaker/guy-champniss/
Guy's research - https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Guy-Champniss
McKinsey article on AI in Contact Centres - https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/operations/our-insights/the-contact-center-crossroads-finding-the-right-mix-of-humans-and-ai
Onora O'Neil BBC Reith Lectures on A Question of Trust:
Recording: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00ghvd8
Transcript: https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/radio4/transcripts/20020427_reith.pdfv
Why do governments rely on coercion and punishment when voluntary cooperation often produces better, more sustainable outcomes?
Episode SummaryOn this episode, I’m joined once again by Professor Yuval Feldman, who returns to explore the core question behind his latest book: Can The Public Be Trusted?
Instead of asking how much we trust our governments, Yuval flips the script, asking how much governments trust us, and whether that trust is deserved. Together, we dive into the concept of voluntary compliance, where people follow rules not because they’re forced to, but because they believe in doing the right thing. We unpack the complexity of this idea through real-world examples, from tax compliance to environmental policy to COVID-19 interventions.
Yuval explains why people who think they’re ethical can actually be the hardest to regulate, and how misplaced trust can lead to serious regulatory blind spots. We also explore the psychological tension between intrinsic motivation and external enforcement, and why regulators often default to command-and-control, even when trust might offer a better solution.
As ever, Yuval makes nuanced, sophisticated ideas feel accessible and immediately relevant. You'll hear about the role of culture, the limits of nudging, why economists might (sometimes!) actually be right about human behaviour and how AI might help policymakers make better decisions.
Guest Bio
Professor Yuval Feldman is a legal scholar and behavioural scientist at Bar-Ilan University in Israel. A returning guest and the podcast’s very first interviewee, Yuval is internationally renowned for his work at the intersection of law, psychology, and behavioural economics. His new book, Can The Public Be Trusted? The Promise and Perils of Voluntary Compliance is available open-access via Cambridge University Press (link below).
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction: why this question of “can the public be trusted?” matters for regulation and risk
[00:03:42] Yuval’s personal background: how he came into law + psychology and the origin of his VComp lab
[00:09:15] Defining voluntary compliance: what it means, how it differs from coercion
[00:14:52] Intrinsic motivation vs crowding out: when good intentions are undermined by heavy‑handed regulation
[00:21:30] Designing regulatory systems for trust: frameworks and features that support voluntary compliance
[00:27:47] Case study: Covid‑19 and public cooperation—what we learned about trust, compliance and enforcement
[00:34:10] Tax compliance as a trust test: how citizens respond when they believe the system treats them fairly
[00:39:58] Environmental regulation and the limits of voluntary strategies: when culture or technology create barriers
[00:45:22] Cross‑cultural & technological dynamics: how digital reputation, culture and platforms impact compliance
[00:50:05] The perils of voluntary compliance: when trust can be misplaced, manipulated or simply ineffective
[00:55:30] Final reflections: what this means for risk professionals, policymakers and anyone designing systems of human behaviour
[01:00:12] Closing: how to reframe regulation to see the public not as a risk but as a resource.
LinksYuval's academic profile - https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldman
His profile on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuval-feldman-21942514/
His open-access book Can the Public Be Trusted? (Cambridge University Press) –https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/can-the-public-be-trusted/B3E11831E3051D4E928B9252B6767A4B
Yuval’s previous appearances on the show
On The Law of Good People or ‘why we should write rules for good people not bad people’ (2019)- https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-why/
On Trust & Voluntary Compliance (2022) - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-trust-compliance?
We all intuitively know that hypocrisy is a bad thing. But what if it isn’t a flaw, but a feature? But maybe the real problem isn’t hypocrisy, it’s how we think about it.
Episode SummaryOn this episode, I'm talking to Dr Michael Hallsworth, a leading behavioural scientist and the author of The Hypocrisy Trap. We explore a topic that’s instantly recognisable but not often properly understood. Hypocrisy is something we’re quick to spot in others, slow to acknowledge in ourselves, and often design around as if it were avoidable or inherently wrong.
What Michael reveals — through personal stories, behavioural experiments, and a careful unpacking of what hypocrisy really means — is that our judgments of hypocrisy say more about us than about the people we’re criticising. In fact, hypocrisy isn’t just common; it’s structurally baked into how we navigate competing priorities, conflicting values and real-world trade-offs. And sometimes, paradoxically, a little hypocrisy might even be useful.
That makes it incredibly relevant to human risk. In compliance, ethics, and organisational culture, we tend to assume people should act consistently with what they believe, and we often penalise them when they don’t. But as Michael explains, this assumption can lead us to build systems that are brittle, punitive or out of touch with how people actually behave. This conversation challenges that frame and offers a more human — and more effective — way of thinking about inconsistency, trust and moral judgment.
Guest Biography - Michael Hallsworth
Dr Michael Hallsworth is Chief Behavioural Scientist at the Behavioural Insights Team (BIT), where he applies behavioural science to policy, organisational design and real‑world behavioural change. He describes himself as someone “helping people apply behavioural science to real‑world problems” and is the author of The Hypocrisy Trap: How Changing What We Criticise Can Improve Our Lives.
At BIT, Michael has led numerous projects spanning government and private sector domains, bridging rigorous academic research with operational behavioural insight. His work is characterised by practical translation of behavioural science and an upfront acknowledgement of human complexity — the grey zones rather than the simple binaries.
His new book brings this lens to the topic of hypocrisy, exploring how our judgments of double standards shape behaviour, institutions and trust in counter‑intuitive ways.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Intro and framing of hypocrisy as a human behavioural risk
[00:01:00] Why hypocrisy runs deeper than just “saying one thing and doing another”
[00:02:00] Discussion of how organisations treat moral consistency — and the limitations of that approach
[00:03:00] Michael’s background, BIT and the genesis of his book
[00:04:00] Defining hypocrisy: the three‑part structure
[00:06:00] The two‑fold meaning: false image vs double standards
[00:07:00] Michael’s personal story with his daughter + the context of “PartyGate”
[00:09:00] Historical roots: Freud’s view on civilisation and hypocrisy
[00:11:00] Why hypocrisy is a social judgement rather than purely behavioural
[00:13:00] When calling out hypocrisy becomes counterproductive in change efforts
[00:15:00] Real‑world examples: politics, business, everyday life
[00:17:00] The phenomenon of ‘do‑gooder derogation’ and why consistent people make us uneasy
[00:20:00] Hypocrisy as a strategic accusation in social media and organisational life
[00:22:00] The behavioural science of induced hypocrisy and what it tells us about change
[00:25:00] Honest vs. relatable hypocrisy: shifting the narrative
[00:28:00] Michael outlines three categories for navigating hypocrisy
[00:30:00] His reflections on writing the book and the surprises he uncovered
[00:34:00] Balancing moral integrity with public perception and stakeholder expectations
[00:36:00] Hypocrisy in corporate ESG: the tension between expectation and action
[00:39:00] Managing contradictions among stakeholders: the inevitable trade‑offs
[00:41:00] Experiment results: private hypocrisy and moral judge
[00:44:00] The paradox: why we prefer people who are ‘inconsistent but principled’ over ‘consistent and bland’
[00:46:00] Authenticity vs inauthentic leadership — and the hypocrisy dimension
[00:48:00] Is this a practical manual for “how to do hypocrisy well”?
[00:51:00] Final reflections: hypocrisy isn’t always about morality—sometimes it’s about signalling, trust and change
[00:54:00] Michael’s hope for what the book can achieve and closing thoughts
[00:57:00] Wrap‑up, thanks and behavioural nudge for the listener
Links
Michael's website - https://www.michaelhallsworth.com/
The Hypocrisy Trap – https://www.thehypocrisytrap.com/
Behavioural Insights Team - https://www.bi.team/
Michael's IT profile – https://www.bi.team/people/michael-hallsworth/
'Partygate' explainer - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59952395
Can a single sentence change the way you see the world? My guest on this episode, James Geary thinks so.
Episode Summary
On this episode, I speak with writer and journalist James, whose lifelong fascination with aphorisms — the world’s shortest literary form — reveals why brevity really is the soul of wit.
James explains what makes an aphorism work, shares the five laws that define them, and explores how these concise little sayings have guided human thought from ancient times to social media.
We discuss:
* The difference between aphorisms and proverbs
* How short phrases can serve as decision-making tools and emotional signposts
* Why humour and contradiction are central to wisdom
* How modern culture, marketing, and even AI continue the aphoristic tradition
* James’s book The World in a Phrase and why he chose to update it 20 years after originally publishing it
I also ask him whether my friend James Victore's phrase 'what made you weird as a kid, makes you great today' is an aphorism (spoiler alert: it is!).
Guest bio
James Geary is a writer, journalist, and Deputy Curator at Harvard’s Nieman Foundation for Journalism. He is the author of 'The World in a Phrase: A Brief History of the Aphorism' and 'Geary’s Guide to the World’s Great Aphorists'.
Links to topics
James' book The World in a Phrase: A Brief History of the Aphorism (Second Edition) — University of Chicago Press page. University of Chicago Press
* James' official website (book + aphorism archive). jamesgeary.com+1
* Harvard Gazette profile piece (“Brief bursts of wisdom”). Harvard Gazette
* James Geary — TED Talk “Metaphorically speaking.” TED
* Earlier Human Risk podcast episode with James Victore* (where he shares “the things that made you weird…”): The Human Risk Podcast
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Opening, why short phrases stick; introducing James Geary and my confession about “aphorism” pronunciation and definition.
[00:01:00] What aphorisms are; oldest literary form; Reader’s Digest spark at age eight.
[00:03:00] First memorable line: “difference between a rut and a grave”; why compressing meaning captivated him.
[00:05:00] The five laws: brief, personal, definitive, philosophical, with a twist; applying them to the Victore quote.
[00:06:30] Truth vs. usefulness; contradictions (Johnson vs. Bierce) and situational wisdom.
[00:08:45] Aphorisms as everyday philosophy; “signposts” and “violin in public” imagery.
[00:10:45] Teenage collecting; writing aphorisms on the backs of rock posters.
[00:12:45] Joy + darkness; why humour helps memory; “Why can angels fly? Because they take themselves lightly.”
[00:16:30] Family sayings; “If you’re not living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space.”
[00:17:45] Redundancy story; “treacherous ground” aphorism as psychological footing.
[00:19:30] Secular scripture; Pascal’s tennis metaphor; timelessness across traditions.
[00:23:00] Originality vs. recurrence; why the twist makes the familiar new.
[00:25:15] Beyond greeting-card obviousness; Emerson’s “braver five minutes longer.”
[00:27:45] Knowing when to persist vs. bail; relationship aphorism “don’t let someone show you twice.”
[00:31:00] Short form ≠ short attention; links to deep, long thinking.
[00:33:30] Craft vs. hot takes; how aphorisms provoke contemplation and dialogue.
[00:37:00] Ukraine example; “We kneel before heroes, not invaders” and words+images.
[00:41:00] Free speech, calm strength, and the form’s defiance of authoritarianism.
[00:43:15] Why a history, not a favourites list; posters to book structure.
[00:47:00] Rights reversion; why a new edition now; social media context; more aphorists.
[00:49:15] Choosing figures: omitting Wilde; championing Stanisław Lec; “No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible.”
[00:53:00] Aphorisms everywhere: t-shirts, bumper stickers, ads; “Lick the lid of life.”
[00:56:30] Can AI write aphorisms? Yes — but beware “cognitive laziness.”
[01:01:00] Prompts for humans vs. prompts for machines; why discomfort matters.
[01:02:15] Book details; publisher; where to find it; closing thanks.
[01:04:00] Outro: links, review ask, website, and final behavioural nudge on “phrases you live by.”
What can war teach us about how the human brain really works? And why is human decision-making a more significant factor than military strength in wars?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I'm exploring how the human brain truly manifests in conflict—and what that reveals about everyday decision-making. Dr Nicholas Wright, a neurologist-turned-neuroscientist who advises the Pentagon Joint Staff, joins me to discuss his new book Warhead: How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain.
In our conversation, Nick explains why fear is functional, how “will to fight” can outweigh superior force, and why democracies remain capable of catastrophic decisions. He also explains how perception operates as a controlled hallucination anchored to reality rather than a simple sensory feed, and why that distinction matters for strategy, leadership, and risk.
Moving from fruit flies to front lines, Nick shows how simple neural chemicals regulate aggression, how the brain’s grid cells create literal maps to navigate danger and opportunity, and how both biological and organisational models can mislead when mistaken for reality. The discussion ranges from 1940 France to Kyiv, from Stalingrad to Gaza, and from deception as a vice to deception as a civic virtue.
Nick makes a compelling case for metacognition — the ability to think about one’s own thinking— as the conductor of the brain’s internal orchestra and argues that wisdom—not merely cleverness — must be deliberately designed into leaders and into the next generation of artificial intelligence.
We end with practical insights: cultivating “better ignorance,” inviting real dissent in the spirit of Churchill, and creating deliberate spaces for reflection like (I'm delighted to report) long train journeys.
Guest Biography
Dr Nicholas Wright, MRCP, PhD, is a neuroscientist researching the intersections of the brain, technology, and security at University College London, Georgetown University, and the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington, DC. He also serves as an adviser to the Pentagon Joint Staff. Beyond academia, Wright leads projects connecting neuroscience, artificial intelligence, and strategy, and has advised the Pentagon Joint Staff for more than a decade.
He consults on AI for SAP and edited Artificial Intelligence, China, Russia, and the Global Order (Air University Press, 2019).
His latest book, Warhead: How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain, is published by St. Martin’s Press (US) and Pan Macmillan (UK).
AI_Generated Time-stamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:01:00] Nick Wright’s journey from neurologist to defense advisor, applying neuroscience to strategy and AI.
[00:04:29] How evolution shaped the human brain for survival and combat — we’re “built to win or survive a fight.”
[00:05:59] Fear as a vital yet double-edged emotion; anxiety as a side effect of peace.
[00:08:26] Origins of the book Warhead and cultural perceptions of its title.
[00:09:39] Why war remains relevant; critique of overconfidence in peace and Pinker’s “Better Angels” thesis.
[00:12:01] Lessons from France’s WWII defeat — cognition and morale outweigh material strength.
[00:14:41] Ukraine’s resistance as an example of will to fight; psychology as a decisive factor.
[00:15:42] Creativity and emotion as essential tools in decision-making; the brain as an orchestra balancing logic and instinct.
[00:18:10] What fruit flies reveal about aggression and shared neural circuitry with humans.
[00:21:13] Structure of Warhead — using neuroscience to reinterpret history and warfare.
[00:26:37] Mental models and how the brain simulates reality to guide choices.
[00:30:37] Perception vs. reality — the brain generates, not records, the world we see.
[00:35:31] The “uncanny valley” and prediction errors — why imperfect mimicry unsettles us.
[00:36:17] Moral symmetry in conflict — both sides perceive their cause as just.
[00:38:00] Deception and fog of war — manipulating human perception as a timeless weapon.
[00:41:00] WWII story of René Carmille — lying as moral resistance.
[00:43:59] Social media, attention, and the loss of reflection — the modern “disease of abundance.”
[00:45:41] Wisdom versus cleverness — Churchill’s reflective habits and valuing dissent.
[00:48:11] “Better ignorance” and intellectual humility as foundations of wise leadership.
[00:51:26] Cognitive diversity, AI, and the need to embed wisdom—not just intelligence—into machines.
[00:58:28] From WWII to China today — the enduring need for wisdom in navigating global conflict.
Links
Nick's website - https://www.intelligentbiology.co.uk/
WarHead Nick's book - https://www.intelligentbiology.co.uk/books Nick on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholas-d-wright-bba3a065/
If you liked this episode, you might also like my discussion with Dr Mike Martin - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-mike-martin-on-war-politics/
What if your body is learning things your mind doesn’t know? What if memory wasn't just something that our brain has?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I'm exploring a bold idea with neuroscientist Dr Nikolay Kukushkin: memory doesn’t just live in the brain. It might be a basic property of life itself. We unpack how scientists define memory (behavioural change over time) versus how the rest of us use the word, and why that distinction matters—from sea slugs to kidney cells. I ask the “muscle memory” question we all carry, and we separate the metaphor from the biology: your basal ganglia automate behaviours, but your muscle cells do literally adapt to patterned use.
We go deep on “patterns.” Nikolay’s work shows that even non-neural cells can detect minute-scale timing differences—preferring spaced pulses over a single crammed dose. That has huge implications for learning, exercise, nutrition, and even medicine; it suggests timing might be as important as quantity. We also talk about sleep as essential “synaptic housekeeping,” why false memories are an adaptive feature (not a failure), and what it really means to “run out of memory” in our overstimulated world.
Finally, we tilt at the big questions: how consciousness might have evolved, why Plato’s model of perception eerily echoes today’s top-down/bottom-up neuroscience, and what AI still lacks—learning patterns in time within an embodied world. If you’ve ever crammed for an exam, worried about forgetting your own name, or wondered what your cells are quietly learning from your daily routines, this one will rewire how you think about memory.
Guest Biography — Dr Nikolay Kukushkin
Dr Nikolay Kukushkin is a Clinical Associate Professor at NYU. His book One Hand Clapping: Unraveling the Mystery of the Human Mind traces how consciousness emerged from the natural world; the original Russian edition won the Enlightener (Prosvetitel) Award and the Alexander Belyaev Medal.
His recent research (Nature Communications, Nov 2024) showed that non-neural human cells display the classic “spacing effect,” suggesting memory-like temporal patterning beyond the brain.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Cold open: reframing memory as cellular, not just neural.
[00:01:00] Scientists’ definition of memory vs everyday usage.
[00:03:00] From behaviour change to cellular change; beyond “plugging a muscle into a brain.”
[00:05:00] All cells have experiences; “pattern matters.”
[00:06:00] Muscle memory: basal ganglia automation vs literal muscle adaptation.
[00:07:00] Shared molecular machinery: “use it or lose it” in brain and muscle.
[00:08:00] Nikolay’s path: from molecules to minds; bottom-up neuroscience.
[00:09:00] Protein quality control: molecular barcodes and cellular “conversations.”
[00:11:00] Why sea slugs: short path from molecules to behaviour.
[00:13:00] Hypothesis leap: if single neurons learn from pulses, could kidney cells?
[00:14:00] The experiment: four 3-min pulses vs one 12-min pulse (spacing wins).
[00:16:00] What’s uniquely neural: synapses and specific connectivity; where salience arises.
[00:19:00] Memory without awareness; non-neural systems can store patterns.
[00:20:00] Applications: exercise, diet, medicine; timing as a lever.
[00:23:00] The dark mirror: life as obsessive optimisation if we over-pattern.
[00:24:00] Personal practice: being mindful of inputs, attention as filter.
[00:26:00] Debunking “10% of the brain” and the sleep–memory link.
[00:28:00] Sleep weakens synapses; deprivation leads to saturation and hallucinations.
[00:30:00] The social-media “soup” analogy for saturated memory.
[00:32:00] Names, identity and rehearsal; de-naming as degradation.
[00:33:00] Reconsolidation: why false memories are a feature we need.
[00:34:00] 9/11/Challenger studies: how memories drift with time.
[00:36:00] Ebbinghaus and the spacing effect across species and systems.
[00:39:00] Cramming vs spacing: initial strength and decay rates.
[00:41:00] The forgetting curve and why “more” can decay slower in memory.
[00:42:00] “My whole life is one big experiment on my brain.”
[00:43:00] Practical “tip”: fix attention first; follow interest, not force.
[00:45:00] Attention economy and selective inputs as memory hygiene.
[00:48:00] From smoking to scrolling: a future of information hygiene.
[00:50:00] One Hand Clapping: why it feels special to be you.
[00:54:00] Plato’s “two fires”: ancient echoes of top-down/bottom-up perception.
[00:58:00] Intuition as hidden associations; LLMs as an analogy.
[01:00:00] AI: excitement, unease, and the risk of outsourcing humanness.
[01:03:00] What AI lacks: learning patterns in time without a body.
[01:05:00] Close and thanks.
[01:06:00] Outro and calls to action.
Links
Nikolay's website - https://www.nikolaykukushkin.com/
His NYC profile - https://liberalstudies.nyu.edu/about/faculty-listing/nikolay-kukushkin.html
His book 'One Hand Clapping' - https://www.nikolaykukushkin.com/press-1
'Memory Takes Time': research into how wemory is not confined to a particular location or locations in the brain - https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-62731730467-1
Herman Ebbinghaus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Ebbinghaus and The Ebbinghaus Illusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebbinghaus_illusion
What if the biggest AI risk isn’t bias or data, but human behaviour itself? How might AI impact the people using it and what does that mean for how we design solutions and deploy the technology?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined by a returning guest. Richard Chataway is a behavioural science expert and strategist who joins me to explore how we can design AI systems that truly work for humans. Richard brings a unique lens to the conversation, combining insights from advertising, government policy, and behavioural science to unpack the human drivers that shape how we build and interact with AI. We discuss everything from cognitive biases and persuasive tech to the ethics of design and how these hidden forces influence our relationship with intelligent machines.
During our conversation, Richard explains the importance of context and behavioural frameworks in making AI more ethical, effective, and human-centric. We explore real-world examples of effective and ineffective design, examining where intentions diverge from outcomes and what can be done to address these discrepancies.
Richard shares fascinating insights from his book "The Behaviour Business" and his experience in both the public and private sectors, offering a practical yet thought-provoking look at what it really means to design for behaviour in the age of AI.
Whether you’re an AI sceptic, enthusiast, or simply curious about how technology intersects with human behaviour, this episode offers a compelling exploration of the invisible levers shaping our digital lives. From nudging with intent to avoiding manipulation, Richard helps us understand how behavioural science can make the future of AI more aligned with our values and less prone to unintended consequences.
Guest Biography
Richard is a Behavioural Scientist, Author and Podcaster who heads up the Behaviour Change Team at Concentrix, a Fortune 500 global technology and transformation company, working with around 2000 brands globally in over 70 different countries. He is also the founder of Communication Science Group and a former board member of the Association for Business Psychology.
His book The Behaviour Business is a bestselling guide to deploying Behavioural Science within organisations to solve a wide range of problems.
vAI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Intro: Designing AI for humans
01:25 – Welcome back Richard Chataway
03:15 – Behavioural science meets AI
05:20 – Why we lie more to bots
07:05 – Judgement, distance & dishonesty
09:10 – When design invites bad behaviour
11:30 – Fraud as a design problem
13:40 – The “Computer says no” effect
15:25 – When neutrality helps disclosure
17:15 – The empathy paradox
19:05 – Data bias & unequal outcomes
21:30 – When to keep humans in the loop
23:40 – Behavioural science as AI insurance
26:00 – When efficiency erodes trust
28:20 – Friction, fairness & feedback
30:05 – AI and the frontline worker
33:00 – Redefining jobs, not removing them
36:10 – New skills for an AI world
39:00 – Beyond efficiency: meaningful work
41:45 – Leadership: ask “should we automate?”
44:10 – Practical design principles
47:30 – The myth of full automation
50:20 – Augment, don’t replace
53:00 – Case studies from Concentrix
56:40 – Making AI ethics actionable
59:20 – The next five years of human-centred AI
1:02:00 – Closing reflections
1:04:30 – Where to find Richard
1:06:00 – Outro & related episodes
Links
Richard on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-chataway/
Richard's book The Behaviour Business - https://behaviourbusiness.com/
Richard's previous appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/richard-chataway-on-the-behaviour/
Concentrix - https://www.concentrix.com/
Richard at Concentrix - https://www.concentrix.com/contributor/richard-chataway/
What happens when the worst thing you’ve ever done becomes the foundation for your life’s work?
Episode Summary
My guest on this episode is Tom Hardin, otherwise known as Tipper X. He's been on the show before, but this time we're tackling a different angle.
If you don’t already know his story, Tom was a rising star in the hedge fund world in his twenties when he became involved in insider trading. Caught by the FBI, he made the decision to cooperate — ultimately becoming one of the most prolific informants in the largest investigation of its kind in U.S. history. His work with the FBI helped secure dozens of convictions, and while his own case remained under seal for years, he eventually chose to speak publicly about what happened — not to excuse it, but to help others understand how good people can make bad decisions.
If you haven’t heard Tom’s first appearance on the show, where he tells that extraordinary story in full, I highly recommend listening to it here before diving into this episode.
Because this time, we’re not talking about what he did back then; we’re talking about what he’s done since. Tom has built a powerful second act, using his experience to educate organisations about ethics, decision-making and behavioural risk. He’s now delivered over 600 talks, and what fascinates me is how he’s turned that into something both impactful and sustainable.
His forthcoming book Wired on Wall Street is due out next year, and he’ll be back on the show to talk about that. But for now, I wanted to explore what it means to build a career from a cautionary tale. In this conversation, we explore:
* How Tom built a speaking business around his past without glamourising it
* The frameworks he’s developed to help companies recognise ethical pressure points
* How he navigates scepticism, manages reputation, and avoids turning his story into a performance
* The impact he hopes to have, and how he measures it
This is a conversation about vulnerability, professionalism, and doing good with what you’ve learned the hard way. Whether you're in compliance, leadership, education, or just curious about how we turn failure into purpose, this one’s for you.
Guest Profile
Tom is a former hedge fund analyst turned FBI informant, now a globally recognised speaker and ethics educator. Known as Tipper X, Tom shares his story to help others understand the behavioural drivers of misconduct and the power of accountability.
AI Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00 – Introduction
Christian shares the origin of this episode, his relationship with Tom, and the context behind the conversation.
06:30 – The label “Tipper X” and living with it
Tom reflects on how it feels to be known by his code name and why he uses it professionally.
09:00 – What it’s like to talk about the worst thing you’ve done, repeatedly
The emotional and psychological toll of speaking publicly about past wrongdoing.
13:00 – Keeping it fresh: updating the story and the message
How Tom avoids becoming performative and ensures audiences always get something valuable.
16:40 – Why it’s not entertainment
Tom draws the line between education and storytelling-as-performance, and how he avoids glamorising his past.
20:50 – The business model behind Tipper X
The practicalities of how Tom has built and sustained a speaking career rooted in his past.
26:30 – Frameworks and tools Tom uses in his talks
He discusses behavioural insights and models he shares with audiences to make the message stick.
31:00 – The “AI homework” story
A compelling example Tom uses to explain rationalisation and ethical grey areas.
36:00 – Over 630 talks: managing the workload and the mission
How Tom tracks his talks and why he keeps going despite the repetition.
39:10 – Audience reactions and confessions
What people tell Tom after his talks — and what that reveals about corporate culture.
42:30 – “Why should we pay someone who committed a crime?”
Christian and Tom unpack this ethical tension and why context, intent and delivery matter.
48:00 – Building trust with clients and collaborators
The importance of transparency, humility and boundaries in how Tom presents himself.
53:20 – What success really looks like
Tom reflects on purpose, legacy and the long-term impact he hopes to have.
57:00 – Looking ahead: the forthcoming book and continuing the conversation. Christian mentions Tom’s upcoming book Wired on Wall Street, and plans for a future episode.
Links
Podcast: Tom’s previous appearance on the show
Tom's website:TipperX.com
Pre-order Tom's book Wired On Wall Street; https://www.amazon.com/Wired-Wall-Street-Prolific-Informants/dp/1394348878
His LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tipperx/
Tom's Substack Newsletter: https://tipperx.substack.com/
Why do so many workplaces run on bullshit processes and procedures? And how might Behavioural Science help resolve them?
Episode Summary
In this episode, I sit down with author, speaker and advisor James Healy to explore his book BS at Work — and the everyday nonsense we all recognise inside organisations.
James argues that while behavioural science has transformed public policy and consumer behaviour, workplaces have lagged behind. We dig into why leaders keep choosing rituals over results, why nobody seems to ask “does this actually work?”, and how our search for simple answers can make complex systems worse.
I ask James to unpack some of his favourite stories, including the strange origins of the DISC personality test — created by Wonder Woman’s inventor, complete with “dominance” and “submission” baked in — and the utterly self-parodying experience he had with e-learning about not cheating on e-learning. 😳
We talk context vs. character, box-ticking vs. behaviour change, and why “I don’t know” is often the most honest answer in big organisations. We finish on what to do instead. James doesn’t offer commandments — he offers principles that sometimes even contradict each other, because context matters.
Together we make the case for designing environments that make the desired behaviours easier, embracing complexity with humility, and asking better questions — especially when a shiny quick fix is on the table.
GUEST BIO
James is an author, speaker and executive advisor who applies behavioural science to organisational problems — with a mission to make workplaces more human. He's also the Founder and Managing Director of The Behaviour Boutique and host of The B-Word podcast,
AI-GENERATED TIMESTAMPED SUMMARY
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:03:00] James’s path: economics → philosophy → Kahneman & Tversky lightbulb.
[00:06:00] The question James asks in orgs: “Does anybody think this will work?”
[00:09:00] The missing third answer: “I don’t know” — and why nobody measures impact.
[00:10:30] Why people stick with accepted rituals; self-preservation beats candour.
[00:13:30] The book’s stance: no silver bullets; principles, not commandments.
[00:16:00] Personality tests & categories; the DISC backstory via Wonder Woman.
[00:20:00] Humans on continua, not binaries; our craving for neat boxes.
[00:23:00] Complexity rising; we cling harder to simplicity and widen the gap.
[00:24:30] The brain’s connectome as humility check; limits of two-by-two thinking.
[00:27:00] Context > character; orgs try to “fix the individual” instead of the system.
[00:29:00] Mixed signals: “be collaborative” vs. incentives and spaghetti systems.
[00:34:00] AI and magical thinking; processes are simple “except for all the ways they’re not.”
[00:41:00] Call-centre scripts vs. common sense — when design defeats judgment.
[00:45:00] Purpose theatre: the Greggs poster and the risk of making things worse.
[00:51:00] The e-learning about not cheating on e-learning; incentives and signals.
[00:55:00] “Do something” bias (Geldof); why activity ≠ effectiveness in orgs.
[01:00:00] Failure as feature; thinking critically beats imported “models.”
[01:01:00] Book and podcast details; where to find James.
LINKS
James on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-healy-behaviour-boutique
James' website for his business The Behaviour Boutique: https://thebehaviourboutique.com/
James' Book BS At Work: Why so much of modern work is bullshit and how behavioural science can make it better - https://www.amazon.co.uk/BS-At-Work-bullshit-behavioural/dp/0646719173?ref_=ast_author_dp
James' Podcast The B Word - https://thebehaviourboutique.com/podcast/
What if the most powerful tool at work isn’t logic, but laughter? On this episode I'm speaking to a comedian who far from thinking humour is a workplace distraction, thinks it might be one of our most powerful tools.
Episode Summary
My guest is Pep Rosenfeld: comedian, improviser, and co-founder of the Amsterdam-based comedy institution Boom Chicago. He’s also the author of Work Laugh Balance, a manifesto for injecting humour into the working world. We explore why humour matters; not just as entertainment, but as a serious enabler of collaboration, communication, and honesty. Pep brings a unique perspective: part performer, part business trainer.
We talk about how Boom Chicago went from late-night improv to a launchpad for corporate masterclasses in leadership and presentation. Along the way, we unpack the risks and rewards of using humour at work; what works, what really doesn’t, and how to find the line without crossing it. Pep shares ethical guidelines for office jokes, the power of self-deprecation, and why starting with a laugh can lead to deeper conversations. We also get into the craft of being funny.
Pep explains why good comedy is rarely spontaneous, why AI still can’t tell a decent joke, and why live audiences matter more than ever. Whether you're trying to lighten the mood in a meeting or name the elephant in the room without causing a stampede, this episode offers practical ideas (and a few laughs) on how to do it with intelligence and care.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Opening on humour’s overlooked role in work; intro to Pep Rosenfeld
[00:01:00] How Boom Chicago began as a summer comedy project in Amsterdam
[00:04:00] Expanding into improv for kids on the autism spectrum
[00:06:00] The book’s premise: humour fuels communication, leadership, and trust
[00:11:00] Why advertisers and leaders alike should embrace humour
[00:12:00] Rules for workplace humour: self-deprecate, avoid punching down, don’t get creepy
[00:16:00] Comedy as a tool for tackling elephants in the room
[00:23:00] The myth of improv: strong humor depends on thoughtful prep
[00:26:00] The power of presence and live attention in comedy
[00:33:00] What comedians offer that motivational speakers don’t
[00:36:00] How Pep uses AI to show the limits of artificial humour
[00:41:00] Using comedy to defuse fear and build connection
[00:44:00] Parallel skills: being a lawyer vs. being a comedian
[00:50:00] The energy difference between live and virtual comedy
[00:55:00] Defining Work Laugh Balance: credibility without sterility
[01:00:00] What’s next for Pep, where to find his work, and closing thoughts
LinksPep on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pep-rosenfeld-394b2424/
Boom Chicago, Pep's Amsterdam comedy club - https://boomchicago.nl/
Work Laugh Balance - https://amzn.eu/d/678xGYN
If you eniyed this episode, then you might also like these previous episodes of the show:
Comedy writer Paul Dornan on Being Truly Funny - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-dornan-on-being-truly-funny/
Improv Comedian Neil Mullarkey on Being In The Moment - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/neil-mullarkey-on-being-in-the-moment/
Impressionist Josh Berry on Comedy, Satire and Impressions - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-one/
Why do cyclists in London run red lights? It's against the law, and yet, if you've cycled, driven or just observed London's cyclists, you'll know that many of them don't stop when there's a red light.
Confession time: I'm one of them. Not all the time, but some of the time, and weirdly not when I'm in Munich — the other city I live in — but only in London.
The question of why this happens — not just my red light running, but the act in general — is the subject of this episode. Because I think this seemingly simple act can reveal so much about our compliance with rules, our perception of risk, and the way environments shape behaviour.
To unpack these insights, I’m joined by Ella Jenkins, Associate Director at Thinks Insight, and Pete Dyson, a behavioural science researcher at the University of Bath and co-author of Transport for Humans. They've been part of a research team on a study commissioned by Lime, the electric bike and scooter company, which explores why cyclists in London behave the way they do.
What we discover isn’t about recklessness—it’s about confidence, social signalling, poor infrastructure, and the surprising psychology of compliance. In our conversation, we examine the drivers of red-light running, the effectiveness of different interventions, and what this means for broader behaviour change.
Whether you’re a policymaker, a cyclist, or simply someone curious about how our minds and cities interact, this episode offers practical insights into one of the most visible — and misunderstood — forms of everyday noncompliance.
Guest Biographies
Ella Jenkins is an Associate Director at Thinks Insight, a strategy and research consultancy that helps clients understand human behaviour and deliver change. She led the research project commissioned by Lime to understand why cyclists in London run red lights. With a background in behavioural science and a passion for applying insights in real-world contexts, Ella brings both analytical rigour and empathy to her work.
Pete Dyson is a behavioural science researcher at the University of Bath, where he focuses on transport systems and human behaviour. He is the co-author with Rory Sutherland of the influential book Transport for Humans: Are we nearly there yet? and previously served as the Principal Behavioural Scientist at the UK Department for Transport. He's also the current Cycling Mayor for the UK City of Bath.
Pete blends practical policymaking experience with a deep understanding of the behavioural levers that shape how we move through the world.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction and personal confession about red-light running
[00:01:15] Overview of the Lime-commissioned research
[00:03:20] Introducing Ella Jenkins and Pete Dyson
[00:05:45] The origins and goals of the study
[00:09:05] Red-light running as a defensive rather than reckless behaviour
[00:12:08] Confidence and frequency of cycling linked to rule-breaking
[00:13:14] Perceptions versus reality of who breaks the rules
[00:16:32] The role of infrastructure and signal phasing
[00:18:54] Social norms and peer influence on cyclist behaviour
[00:21:46] Trust in the rules versus lived reality
[00:24:20] Designing for behavioural cues
[00:28:15] Comparison with other cities like Munich
[00:30:58] The emotional context of cycling
[00:34:46] Enforcement and views on potential interventions
[00:38:12] Habit formation and unintended nudges
[00:41:23] The interplay between education and empathy
[00:46:49] Final reflections and Christian's closing thoughts
Links
Ella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ella-jenkins/
Pete on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pete-dyson-9ba5301b/ What drives red light running in London cyclists?, the research we discuss: https://fileserver.britainthinks.com/dl/wH4CcDyRg8bV
Thinks Insight: https://www.thinksinsight.com/
Lime Bikes: https://www.li.me/en-gb
Transport for Humans: https://www.transportforhumans.com/
Pete's previous appearance on the show talking about Transport for Humans: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/pete-dyson-on-making-transport-more-human/
The announcement of Pete as Cycling Mayor of Bath: https://www.bath.ac.uk/announcements/the-bicycle-mayor-of-bath-pete-dyson/
What if the ideas that linger in the back of your mind — the ones you can’t quite explain — are the ones you most need to pay attention to?
Episode Summary
In this episode, I explore that question with Dr Nuno Reis, a former physicist and investment banker turned thinker and guide in uncovering what he calls rare dots — those unique, pre-verbal insights that feel deeply resonant but don’t yet fit into our existing models of the world.
Our conversation begins with Nuno’s unusual career path, from string theory and theoretical physics into financial modelling and risk management, before moving into transparency roles in finance. From there, we trace the thread of his enduring curiosity: how crises drive paradigm shifts, why models are useful but limited, and what happens when we acknowledge that not everything fits into neat rational frameworks.Nuno then introduces the concept of rare dots and explains how he’s harnessing AI in a novel, deeply human way: not to replace thought, but to help us surface the preverbal ideas that shape our uniqueness. Together, we explore how rare dots can guide creativity, meaning, and innovation in our work and lives — and why paying attention to the things that don’t quite make sense may be the most sensible thing we can do.
Guest Biography
Dr Nuno Reis describes himself as a physicist turned banker turned explorer of human thinking. After completing a PhD in theoretical physics with a focus on string theory, he transitioned into investment banking at UBS and later into financial engineering and transparency initiatives at Bloomberg.
Over 18 years in finance, he applied scientific methods to risk modelling, hedging, and complex derivatives, all while maintaining a deep curiosity about the limits of logic and models.
Today, Nuno is the creator of the Rare Dots framework, which helps individuals and organisations uncover the pre-verbal insights that drive creativity and meaning. He combines philosophy, history of thought, and cutting-edge uses of AI to build environments where people can explore their deepest intuitions.
Through workshops, cohorts, and his own practice, he guides others in turning those rare dots into pathways for innovation, purpose, and contribution.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction and framing of rare dots as preverbal insights
[00:01:00] Nuno’s background: from physics to banking and financial modelling
[00:06:00] Applying scientific methods to markets and the 2008 crisis
[00:12:00] Replication crisis and paradigm shifts in science
[00:18:00] Early story of curiosity and existential questions
[00:21:00] Introduction of rare dots as deeply resonant insights
[00:26:00] How resonance and intuition shape meaning
[00:30:00] Creating environments to surface rare dots
[00:35:00] History of thinking vs history of ideas
[00:40:00] Using AI as a tool for rare dots and Wittgenstein’s ladder
[00:46:00] How AI can surface pre-verbal thinking
[00:52:00] AI as a prompt for deeper human thinking
[00:56:00] Rare dots exploration as an infinite game
[01:02:00] Rare dots as a guide for careers and human value
Links
Nuno on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nuno-reis/
Nuno's Substack - https://nunobreis.substack.com/
Is listening a hidden superpower we’ve overlooked? You've heard of Active Listening, but what is Radical Listening and why does it matter?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined by Professor Christian van Nieuwerburgh, an academic who also describes himself as 'Coach on a Motorcycle'. He's on the show to help me explore what he calls 'Radical Listening'.
Christian is Professor of Coaching and Positive Psychology at the University of East London and the co-author, with Dr Robert Biswas-Diener, of 'Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection'.
The book offers a research-backed but deeply human exploration of what it means to really hear someone — and how that act alone can change lives. In the book and in his work, Christian blends academic rigour with road-tested coaching insights, drawing from both the lecture hall and long rides through open landscapes. He invites us to look at listening not just as a skill, but as a way of being.
With a background in positive psychology and a passion for connection, Christian brings a perspective that’s as practical as it is profound. We talk about how listening — when done with presence and intention — becomes far more than a communication technique. It becomes a way of affirming identity, offering empathy, and shaping culture. Christian shares why well-meaning advice often misses the mark, the difference between social and cognitive listening, and what it takes to be with someone, rather than just hearing them.
This isn’t just for leaders or coaches; it’s for anyone who wants to have better conversations, create stronger relationships, and be more human in how they engage with others. Listening, as we discuss, isn’t neutral. It’s powerful, personal, and radically transformative.
Guest Biography
Professor Christian van Nieuwerburgh is a globally recognised executive coach, academic, and author, holding the title of Professor of Coaching and Positive Psychology at the University of East London.
As Managing Director of the International Centre for Coaching Psychology and Executive Director at Growth Coaching International, he bridges rigorous research with practice.
He co-authored Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection (with Dr Robert Biswas‑Diener), which reorients listening from a background skill to a central act of human connection.
Famously known as the “Coach on a Motorcycle,” Christian combines his love for the open road with his dedication to how we hear and are heard. Learn more at:
Links
Radical Listening - https://www.bkconnection.com/books/title/Radical-Listening
Radical Listening Audiobook - https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Radical-Listening-Audiobook/B0F2B3TKXV
Christian's faculty page at Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI) - https://people.rcsi.com/chrisvn
Christian's faculty page at Henley Business School - https://www.henley.ac.uk/people/christian-j-van-nieuwerburgh
Coach on a Motorcycle - coachonamotorcycle.com
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
* [00:01:45] — The roots of Radical Listening
* [00:06:30] — How coaching principles intersect with everyday conversations
* [00:11:55] — When advice becomes unhelpful
* [00:17:40] — Listening as identity-affirming behaviour
* [00:22:00] — When a good question stops you in your tracks
* [00:27:30] — Social vs cognitive listening
* [00:33:10] — Why you don’t need to understand the topic to be a great listener
* [00:38:45] — The unspoken costs of poor listening in organisations
* [00:44:50] — How Radical Listening links to psychological safety
* [00:49:20] — Motorcycles, mindfulness, and being in flow
* [00:56:00] — The AI comparison: why listening is a human art
* [01:01:00] — Practical takeaways for everyday listeners
Why do we follow orders or go along with things that feel wrong? Why might defiance be better than compliance? And how can we go about becoming more defiant?
Episode Summary
I’ve always been fascinated by why people obey, even when it clashes with their instincts or values. In this conversation, I’m joined by Dr Sunita Sah — a physician-turned-organisational psychologist whose work explores the hidden social, cultural, and psychological forces behind compliance.
Drawing from her research and personal journey, Sunita reframes defiance as alignment with our true values, not reckless rebellion. We unpack concepts like “insinuation anxiety” — the discomfort of signalling someone else might be wrong — and explore her five-stage model of defiance, from recognising tension to taking decisive action. Sunita explains why compliance is often mistaken for consent, why both have distinct definitions, and why many of us have never practised saying “no” skillfully.
Along the way, she shares vivid examples from medicine, aviation, parenting, and history, including the calculated defiance of Rosa Parks. For leaders, Sunita offers a challenge: create environments where dissent is safe and effective, and treat defiance as valuable feedback.
For all of us, she suggests starting small — practising low-stakes resistance to build our “defiance muscle.” Whether you’re a rule-maker, rule-follower, or both, this episode invites you to rethink the stories you tell yourself about compliance, and to see saying “no” as a powerful tool for living with integrity.
Guest Bio Self-Description:
Dr Sunita Sah is a physician-turned-organisational psychologist and Professor of Management Studies at Cornell University. Her research examines the social, organisational, and psychological forces that influence decision-making, particularly in contexts involving authority, conflicts of interest, and ethical dilemmas.
She is the author of Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes (US title: Defy: How to Speak Up When It Matters), a book that reframes defiance as a vital life skill.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Opening & why we obey even when it feels wrong
[00:02:00] Sunita’s career journey: medicine to organisational psychology
[00:05:00] Personal experiences shaping her research
[00:07:00] Redefining compliance vs. consent
[00:10:00] The five elements of informed consent
[00:11:00] Introducing “insinuation anxiety”
[00:14:00] High-stakes and low-stakes examples of silence
[00:18:00] Why people resist defiance — lack of skill and practice
[00:20:00] New definition of defiance as value alignment
[00:23:00] Tension as the first stage of defiance
[00:25:00] Stage 3: asking clarification questions
[00:27:00] Scripts for skilful defiance
[00:30:00] Practising in low-stakes situations
[00:33:00] Speaking up for others vs. for oneself
[00:36:00] Defiance as a skill, not a personality
[00:38:00] Calculating safety and effectiveness of defiance
[00:41:00] Costs of compliance vs. costs of defiance
[00:44:00] Clarifying values to lower stress and improve integrity
[00:46:00] Leadership responsibility for safe dissent
[00:48:00] Performative vs. genuine speak-up systems
[00:50:00] Defiance as contagious behaviour
[00:52:00] The role of mischief and playful resistance
[00:56:00] Saying yes when the world expects no
[00:58:00] Advice for compliance officers and leaders
[01:00:00] Upcoming courses on defiance and decision-making
Links
Sunita's website: https://www.sunitasah.com
Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes — https://www.sunitasah.com/defy
Sunita's Cornell University faculty profile — https://www.johnson.cornell.edu/faculty-research/faculty/sunitasah/
What happens when citizens lose faith in the institutions that serve them? And how can we rebuild that trust?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I'm speaking to someone who cares passionately about this subject and who has made it her life's work to research and solve it.
From politicians who lie, to corruption scandals, to public services that simply don’t work the way we expect—especially when we're paying taxes and getting poor value—something feels broken. I want to know: how do we understand and respond to that breakdown of faith?
Libby Maman, founder and CEO of Luminata, whose work turns abstract values like transparency, accountability, participation and inclusiveness into tangible, measurable trust indicators.
We dig into why conventional approaches to rebuilding trust often backfire, and how designing systems that measure the right things can actually shift organisational behaviour for the better.
You'll hear not only how trust can be mapped, measured and managed—but why that matters. We challenge assumptions: do metrics actually undermine trust? Or can they signal seriousness, credibility and responsiveness?
Libby shares concrete examples of stakeholder‑led indicators, behavioural logic in gamification, and the limitations and opportunities of measuring democratic values.
Guest Biography: Libby Maman
Libby Maman is a researcher and systems designer working at the intersection of public policy, behavioural science and institutional design. She is the founder and CEO of Luminata, a consultancy that partners with governments and civil society to build measurable trust frameworks. Libby’s broader background spans academia, consulting and public sector work.
Her research focuses on translating democratic norms—such as transparency, accountability and inclusiveness—into practical metrics that organisations can both implement and act on. Through Luminata, she has worked with national and local governments to co‑design trust indicators that respond to real stakeholder needs and drive change.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction: Declining trust in public bodies and the stakes of measurement
[00:02:45] Libby’s background and mission at Luminata
[00:05:30] Why traditional trust-building (PR, appeals to values) often fails
[00:10:15] Designing trust indicators: transparency, accountability, participation, inclusiveness
[00:15:40] Co‑design with stakeholders to ensure relevance and buy‑in
[00:20:10] Behavioural logic: how metrics can motivate institutional change
[00:25:00] Risks of aspirational vs realistic measurement targets
[00:30:00] Trust-politicisation: when metrics become tools of power
[00:35:20] Case examples of gamified measurement and its impact
[00:40:00] The relationship between trust-building and voluntary compliance
[00:45:30] Limitations: measurement isn’t magic—but it's a start
[00:50:00] Final reflections on what organisations must do to grow trust
Links:
Libby's website -
Luminata website (Libby’s consultancy)
Libby on LinkedIn
Relevant Previous Episodes
Professor Yuval Feldman on why we should write rules for good people not bad people
Professor Yuval Feldman on Trust & Voluntary Compliance
Hilary Sutcliffe on Trust
Dr Jake Mazulewicz on Human Reliability
We’ve all heard the phrase ‘the show must go on’. But when shouldn’t the show go on? To help me answer that, I’m speaking to someone who has spent 35 years managing some of Australia’s most iconic large-scale events — from Taylor Swift concerts to public city spectacles with crowds over 200,000, and corporate experiences — and has often faced the question: when should the show really stop?
My guest is Iain Morrison, wh,o as well as having a background in events, is nowthe CEO of a startup that builds hyper‑accurate 3D and VR plans for event venues.
Episode Summary
In this episode, I dig into what happens when the entertainment world’s credo — “the show must go on” — becomes a liability, and what it feels like backstage to carry that kind of responsibility.
Iain explains the importance of having show‑stop protocols long before trouble arrives — whether it’s crowd crush, heart attacks in the crowd, or approaching severe weather. He explains how event organisers need to make decisions in advance so that nobody freezes under pressure, and ensure everyone is aligned on who can stop the show, and how and when to restart it.
We also delve into the emotional toll of the event industry — the brutal hours, constant touring, adrenaline highs, and the realities of burnout. Ian talks candidly about putting people at risk by cutting critical breaks and how easily event teams can burn out.
Finally, he walks me through his pivot: building a tech startup that uses 3D planning and virtual models to give event teams a fully visual planning tool — reducing surprises, improving safety, and supporting better decisions from the very first draft.
GUEST BIOGRAPHY
Iain is an event manager with over three decades of experience in running major concerts, festivals, and public spectacles across Australia. He has helped deliver live shows for acts like Taylor Swift, U2, Foo Fighters, major public events on the Sydney Harbour Bridge and Domain Concert series, with crowds ranging from 5,000 to over 200,000.
From high school theatre beginnings to early work at Opera Australia and the Sydney Opera House, Ian transitioned into corporate events, the Olympics, and large public outdoor events. He has worked in high-pressure environments where crowd safety, terrorism threats, public order, and weather call-offs were part of the job on a daily basis.
About two years ago, he moved from event delivery to event technology — as CEO and co‑founder of The Imagination Collaborative, Ian now leads a startup building hyper‑accurate 3D and VR planning tools. These digital twins help event teams visualise venue layouts, crowd flows, sightlines, signage, camera positions, evacuation routes and more—before anything is built on site.
AI-GENERATED TIMESTAMPED SUMMARY
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:02:00] Ian’s backstory: school theatre → university → Opera House → major events
[00:05:00] Scale of events: from 5,000 attendees to crowds of over 200,000
[00:08:00] Types of risk at live events: crowd crush, terrorism threats, medical events
[00:12:00] Why events remain largely unregulated worldwide
[00:15:00] Concept of a “show stop”: planning for what enables safe cancellation or pause
[00:20:00] Decision‑making under stress: protocols versus ego-based pressure
[00:25:00] Real scenarios: thunderstorms, crowd reaction, and restart challenges
[00:28:00] Emotional cost on crews: burnout, long hours, compressed touring schedules
[00:32:00] Industry taboo around mental health and burnout; making it safer for staff
[00:36:00] Ian’s use of social media to spark conversations on stress, safety and standards
[00:40:00] Introduction to Ian’s startup: detailed planning with 3D environments and VR
[00:44:00] How the tool works: drone scans, venue models, client interaction in virtual space
[00:48:00] Benefits: fewer surprises, better sightlines, optimised signage, cost savings
[00:51:00] Future plans: integrating crowd simulation, digital twin models, global expansion
[00:55:00] Final reflections: the trade‑offs of delivering magic vs ensuring safety
[00:57:00] Wrap‑up
LINKS
Iain on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/iainmorrison1/
Iain’s website - https://iainmorrison.global/
Iain’s startup, The Imagination Collaborative - https://www.theimaginationcollaborative.com/
What if the real risk of AI isn’t job loss but brain atrophy?
Episode Summary
If you've spent any time on social media recently, you'll be familiar with the flood of low-quality AI-generated sludge. And on this episode, I'm speaking to someone who is leading a one-woman campaign against it and in favour of human-generated content.
Her name is Zsike Peter and she's the fiercely human founder of an agency called Vampire Digital; you'll hear why its called that on the show. Zsike is also the author of a new book called Thinkbait: The Definitive Guide to Reclaiming Human Creativity in the Age of AI which seeks to highlight and combat the prevalence of AI-generated low-quality content.
Her mission is a passionate defence of human creativity in an age where generative AI threatens to dull our minds and voices. Its a rallying cry for intentional, thoughtful use that keeps our agency intact.
In a fascinating discussion, we explore her extraordinary backstory, from growing up in communist Transylvania to being arrested after escaping a toxic UK host family that hired her as an au pair. And you'll hear the remarkable story about how she went undercover in a brothel to win a journalism scholarship.
These stories aren’t just great anecdotes, they reveal a mindset of relentless curiosity, courage, and independence that informs her work today.
What makes Zsike's objection to AI so compelling is that initially she embraced it. But after having tried it out, she flipped from embracing generative AI to warning against its effects on our thinking.
You'll hear her talk about the concept of Thinkbait as an alternative to clickbait; content that stimulates rather than stupefies. Along the way, we unpack how language creates culture, why writing is thinking, and what it means to preserve our humanness in a machine-saturated world.
And much, much more.
Guest Biography: Zsike Peter
Zsike is the founder of Vampire Digital — a content agency with a “fiercely human heart,” known for producing sharp, human-written copy in a world drowning in AI sludge. She is also the author of Thinkbait: The Definitive Guide to Reclaiming Human Creativity in the Age of AI — a book that serves as both a practical framework and a philosophical manifesto.
Her background in journalism, corporate communications, and digital marketing now powers a mission to help people reclaim their voices (and their thinking) in a world increasingly seduced by generative AI.
Links
Thinkbait - https://thinkbait.co.uk/
Vampire Digital, Zsike's agency - https://www.vampiredigital.biz/
Zsike on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/zsike-peter/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary(yes, I know, ironic, given the subject!)
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:02:00] Zsike's childhood in communist Transylvania and family escape story
[00:13:00] Going undercover in a brothel to win a journalism competition
[00:19:00] Her arrest and start in the UK after fleeing abuse
[00:24:00] Building a career in communications and founding Vampire Digital
[00:28:00] Why she chose the vampire brand and what it represents
[00:31:00] How her agency captures authentic voice in client content
[00:33:00] Her shift from embracing to warning against generative AI
[00:36:00] The dangers of outsourcing thinking and writing to machines
[00:41:00] Why individuality and voice matter in a world of sameness
[00:44:00] Thinkbait as a framework, manifesto, and act of defiance
[00:48:00] The bedtime story moment that triggered a rethink on AI
[00:53:00] The rise of fake authority and automated engagement online
[00:57:00] Language loss, writing in a third language, and cultural identity
[01:03:00] How hardship shaped her creative drive and ethical stance
[01:07:00] Final reflections
What if we treated mental health like a capability instead of a crisis? On this episode, I'm talking to a business school professor and a counselling psychologist about their new book that looks at practical ways we can manage mental health. Not after it manifests itself, but beforehand.
Episode Summary
Mental health has become part of the workplace conversation, but all too often, that conversation stops at slogans and superficial gestures. On this episode, I explore what it really means to build mental wellbeing into the culture of an organisation with two guests who bring very different — and deeply complementary — perspectives.
Dr. Kiran Bhatti is a counselling psychologist working one-on-one with individuals experiencing anxiety, trauma, and burnout. Professor Thomas Roulet is an organisational sociologist at the University of Cambridge who researches the social dynamics of modern workplaces.
Together, they've written Wellbeing Intelligence, a book that offers a smarter, more integrated approach to mental health at work. Our conversation blends the clinical and the organisational.
We talk about why mental health needs to be treated not just as an emergency response but as a proactive skillset, why high performers are often the most vulnerable, and why grand programmes can fall flat if they don’t feel human. Kiran explains how physical symptoms can mask deeper emotional struggles, and Thomas highlights the invisible tensions that can shape how teams feel and function.
We unpack how leaders can signal care without being intrusive, and how a culture of safety is built more through micro-interactions than policies. This episode is for anyone trying to build workplaces that support — rather than erode — human wellbeing. It’s full of practical insight, honest reflection, and just the right amount of theory to make it stick. You’ll also hear what parenting a newborn has taught them about emotional intelligence and stress, and why the best mental health support often starts with listening, not fixing.
And we break new ground on the show. Not just by having the first couple on as guests, but also because we're joined by their newborn son, who plays his part in making the show more human!
Guest Biographies
Dr. Kiran Bhatti is a counselling psychologist with over 15 years of experience working with individuals and organisations on issues related to mental health, trauma, and emotional wellbeing. She describes herself as someone who works at the intersection of science and soul — blending evidence-based psychological techniques with a deep respect for human complexity. In her practice, she focuses on empowering clients to make sense of their experiences and build sustainable emotional resilience.
Professor Thomas Roulet is a Professor of Organisational Sociology and Leadership at Cambridge Judge Business School and a Fellow at King's College, University of Cambridge. His research explores the social dynamics of organisations, including topics like stigma, conformity, culture, and leadership. He’s published widely on how organisations manage tensions, and how individuals navigate identity and meaning at work. His writing has appeared in Harvard Business Review, The Conversation, and major academic journals.
Together, they co-authored Wellbeing Intelligence: Building Better Mental Health at Work, combining their clinical and organisational expertise to offer a fresh approach to workplace wellbeing that moves beyond tokenistic initiatives.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary[00:00:00] Introduction and the concept of "wellbeing intelligence"
[00:03:52] Why mental health should be viewed as a spectrum, not a binary
[00:07:10] The limitations of performative wellbeing initiatives
[00:09:24] How leaders can signal real care without being intrusive
[00:13:17] The interplay between physical and emotional symptoms
[00:16:45] Why psychological safety needs to be lived, not just stated
[00:21:06] What makes high performers especially vulnerable to burnout
[00:26:08] Cultural tensions: hybrid work, visibility, and presenteeism
[00:29:33] Real-life stories of clients struggling in 'healthy' work cultures
[00:34:12] What we can learn from parenting a newborn about stress response
[00:38:05] Thomas on data vs experience in mental health measurement
[00:41:52] Kiran on the role of micro-connections in building trust
[00:44:30] Why middle managers are often the most squeezed and unsupported
[00:48:17] The risk of "outsourcing" care via tech or tools
[00:52:01] Final thoughts on how to embed wellbeing into everyday leadership
[00:55:12] Outro and links to the book and guest profiles
Links
Dr Khiran Bhatti - https://www.drkiranbhatti.com/
Professor Thomas Roulet - https://www.thomasroulet.com/
Wellbeing Intelligence - https://profilebooks.com/work/wellbeing-intelligence/
Thomas' previous appearance on the show on Negative Social Evaluations - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-thomas-roulet-on-negative/
What if joy became the most important metric when we organised events? Or, to put it another way, why are so many events uninspiring and not very joyful?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined by event strategist, educator, and author Tahira Endean to explore a provocative question: what if we measured events not just by financial metrics, but by the joy they deliver?
Drawing from her new book Our KPI is Joy: How Live Events Catalyze Happiness, Productivity and Trust, Tahira shares deep insights from decades of experience curating and designing events at scale, including her work with IMEX, one of the largest global gatherings in the meetings and events industry.
We discuss why so many events feel soul-crushingly mediocre and how that reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of what people really need when they come together. Tahira challenges the industry’s obsession with surface-level logistics and proposes a reorientation around human experience.
She unpacks everything from the science of connection and discomfort to the power of design, food, space, and unexpected joy to foster trust and productivity. Whether you’re an event professional, a business leader, or simply someone who’s sat through one too many lifeless conferences, this conversation will challenge how you think about convening people.
We discuss beanbags, sound baths, shrimp, secret handshakes, and how small design decisions can profoundly impact how people feel, learn, and connect. And that’s what makes joy — not an emoji or indulgence — but a powerful performance indicator.
Guest Bio: Tahira Endean
Tahira is an experienced event strategist, educator, and co-founder of Strategy Table. She serves as Head of Programme for IMEX, where she curates content for two of the world’s largest MICE (Meetings, Incentives, Conventions, and Exhibitions) industry gatherings in Frankfurt and Las Vegas.
With over three decades in the events industry, Tahira has developed a reputation for her forward-thinking approach to event design and human-centric experiences. She teaches event strategy and design, is a passionate advocate for experiential innovation, and brings a behavioural lens to the way we bring people together.
She believes in the power of micro-moments, psychological safety, and events as catalysts for human connection and organisational trust.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
0:00:02 - 0:14:48: Maximizing Event Joy for Productivity
The episode kicks off with a discussion on how joy can be a key performance indicator (KPI) for events. Tahira Endeen, an experienced event strategist, talks about why many events end up being mediocre and how small design changes can significantly enhance the experience. The conversation highlights the importance of joy in fostering happiness, productivity, and trust during gatherings, challenging the traditional business mindset to value joy as much as other KPIs.
0:14:48 - 0:29:08: Designing Events for Human Connection
This segment delves into the principles of intentional event design. Tahira and the host explore how creating environments that balance comfort and stimulation can lead to more meaningful interactions and learning experiences. They discuss examples like the 11th International Conference on AIDS, where well-designed events led to groundbreaking innovations. The focus is on nurturing individual experiences over catering to the masses.
0:29:08 - 0:37:32: Designing Thoughtful & Engaging Events
The focus here is on fostering connections and joy in professional events through thoughtful design. Strategies like facilitating introductions by senior managers and organising diverse breakout sessions are explored. The segment underscores the importance of measuring engagement and joy, emphasizing a human-centered approach that considers attendees' needs and enhances productivity and satisfaction.
0:37:32 - 0:49:24: Embracing Experimentation and Failure
Tahira shares insights on the value of experimentation and adaptability in event planning. Through a personal anecdote, she illustrates how innovative ideas, initially met with scepticism, can yield significant benefits. The conversation encourages making small changes, embracing failures as learning opportunities, and maintaining a proactive attitude to achieve unexpected successes.
0:49:24 - 1:01:30: Navigating Event Chaos for Success
The episode explores the beauty of embracing imperfections in event planning. Tahira and the host discuss how handling mistakes with grace and humour can add charm to events. They advocate for flexibility in event processes to enhance experiences for both speakers and attendees, maintaining the magic even amidst logistical challenges.
Links
IMEX Events - https://imexevents.com/
Strategy Table - https://strategytable.co/
Our KPI is Joy Book - https://www.amazon.com/Our-KPI-Joy-Happiness-Productivity-ebook/dp/B0DXVX6XX8
Tahira on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tahira-endean-msc-citp-cmp-ced-918a868/?
Why is getting shit done so hard, and what can we do about it?
Episode Summary
Getting shit done isn’t just about motivation or tools, it’s about design. In this episode, I speak to Claus Raasted: consultant, author, speaker, experience designer, and someone who describes himself — with tongue firmly in cheek — as an “overpaid rockstar consultant.”
But behind the flair is a deep understanding of how to remove friction, reframe work, and help people build systems that actually work for them. Claus and I talk about his Little Book of Getting Shit Done, why productivity isn’t about speed or optimisation, and how to shift from overthinking to action.
We also explore the difference between solving problems and designing for them, and how creativity, humour, and even a bit of absurdity can help us rethink how we work. Whether you're the kind of person who loves productivity hacks or someone who's suspicious of all things “optimised,” Claus has a way of making the serious playful and the playful serious. It’s a fun, insightful conversation that just might change the way you approach your to-do list. 🔹
Guest Biography
Claus describes himself as an “overpaid rockstar consultant,” but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. He’s a prolific author (46 books and counting), a speaker known for delivering insights with humour, and a designer of transformative experiences, everything from corporate innovation workshops to immersive fantasy roleplay events.
He’s the Director at the College of Extraordinary Experiences Claus has also worked with organisations like IKEA, PwC, and Boston Consulting Group. You’ll often find him on stage in a Batman suit, not because he wants to be a superhero, but because he understands the power of breaking expectations.
Links
Claus' website - https://www.clausraasted.com/
Claus on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/clausraasted/
Claus Raasted's Little Guide To Getting Shit Done - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DSbVsv6W3CzKbhd3PqU7CBjQUm08uQY1/view?usp=sharing
The College of Extraordinary Experiences - https://www.extraordinary.college/
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
0:00:02 - Introduction
0:02:02 - Humour and Productivity
0:03:43 - The Overpaid Rockstar Consultant Approach
0:09:43 - Strategic Pricing and Branding
0:16:15 - Innovative Approach to Motivation and Productivity
0:19:15 - Combining Gaming with Exercise
0:21:37 - The Human Approach to Sales
0:27:37 - Thoughtful Engagement in Sales
0:34:04 - Reimagining Event Experiences
0:36:34 - Immersive Design in Events
0:39:30 - Expanding Perspectives and Creative Problem-Solving
0:46:30 - Balancing Safety and Creativity
0:53:41 - Resistance to Creative Solutions
0:58:41 - Embracing Unconventional Ideas
1:02:46 - The Value of Time and Connection
1:06:46 - Questioning Hourly Payment Models
What happens when a British communications expert takes her political instincts and corporate storytelling skills to Germany?
🎙️ Overview
On this episode, I speak with Katy Diggory, who’s done exactly that — and learned a lot about tone, culture, and translation along the way. It’s a brilliant conversation that blends politics, international business, and linguistic nuance.
We explore the difference between translating and localising a message, why AI struggles to sound human, and how tone of voice can make or break communication, from Ryanair’s snark to a politician’s speech.
Katy gives me a behind-the-scenes look at her journey from UK Parliament to advising German corporates and monitoring elections in Eastern Europe. This episode is packed with insight for anyone trying to make themselves understood, especially across borders, cultures, or platforms. Katy is witty, reflective, and razor-sharp, and I think you’ll enjoy hearing from her as much as I did.
👤 Guest bio: Katy Diggory
Katy Diggory is a communications expert specialising in campaign design and management, copywriting, proofreading and editing in English and political training. She is based in Munich.
She helps individuals and organisations — especially in politics and corporate life — communicate more effectively across languages, cultures, and sectors. Her approach blends UK political communications experience with an understanding of German corporate tone and messaging. Katy has worked in the UK Parliament and across public and private sectors, and has monitored elections for the OSCE and other international bodies.
Fluent in German, she brings bilingual sensitivity and cultural fluency to everything from speechwriting to branding.
⏱️ AI-Generated Timestamped summary
[00:00] Introduction
[01:30] Katy’s background in UK politics and how she got into comms
[04:40] The shift from UK politics to working with German corporate clients
[08:05] Cultural differences in tone of voice between British and German organisations
[10:25] Why humour doesn’t always translate — and how that shapes messaging
[13:15] When corporate tone feels robotic or insincere
[15:00] Can you really ask AI to write like a human?
[17:45] The difference between translating and truly localising content
[20:10] Ryanair as an example of strategic tone on social media
[22:30] What makes a ‘bad’ tone of voice — and how to recognise it
[24:55] Being bilingual: how switching languages also means switching personas
[27:40] Why German culture may be more accepting of seriousness
[30:15] Behind the scenes of international election monitoring
[34:00] How trust is earned — and lost — in political comms
[36:50] Politicians as one-person media organisations
[39:10] Communication risks in cross-border work
[42:30] Katy’s final thoughts on what makes communication human
🔗 Relevant LinksKaty’s official website: https://www.katherinediggory.com/
Katy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katy-diggory-b1b31425/
Ryanair’s Twitter/X account: @Ryanair
What can a global pop icon teach us about business strategy? In the case of Taylor Swift, more than you might think.
Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined by Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review and the author of There's Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift.
We dive deep into what makes Swift not just a pop icon but a master strategist — someone who has repeatedly made bold, counterintuitive business decisions and turned them into career-defining moments.
Kevin and I explore how Taylor has managed her brand like a founder, handling everything from customer loyalty to product lifecycle planning, channel distribution to reputation management.
He explains how she’s cultivated extraordinary fan intimacy, exercised long-term thinking, and turned public conflict into strategic advantage; all while maintaining creative and commercial dominance.
One of the key moments we reflect on is her decision to re-record her early albums to reclaim ownership of her masters — and since we recorded this episode, there’s been a major update: she’s now reportedly bought back the original masters. It’s a case study in asset control, strategic patience, and sticking to your values, and whether or not you’re a Swiftie, there’s a lot to learn.
Guest Biography
Kevin is a senior editor at Harvard Business Review, where he focuses on strategy, innovation, and leadership. He is the author of The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift, a book that applies a business lens to the career of one of the most commercially successful musicians of our time.
In the book — and this conversation — Kevin explores how Swift’s strategic decision-making offers lessons in branding, IP management, customer engagement, and more. In addition to his work at HBR, Kevin has also edited and collaborated on several bestselling business books, including titles in the HBR Guide series.
AI Generated Timestamp Summary
0:00:00 - Intro (7 Minutes)
* Introduction to Taylor Swift's strategic acumen in brand management.
* Discussion with Kevin Evers on how Swift has built a resilient brand and fostered fan loyalty.
* Highlighting her decision to re-record albums as an example of her entrepreneurial instincts.
0:06:49 - Taylor's Bold Career Evolution (7 Minutes)
* Exploration of Swift's transition from country star to pop icon.
* Examination of key career moments, including the 2009 MTV VMA incident.
* Analysis of how Swift turns challenges into opportunities.
0:13:46 - Taylor Swift's Collaborative Evolution (14 Minutes)
* Swift's strategic collaborations and her fear of stagnation.
* Insights into her partnership with producer Max Martin and how it helped evolve her sound.
* Comparisons to the Beatles' ability to adapt and innovate.
0:27:26 - Taylor Swift's Evolving Content Strategy (4 Minutes)
* Discussion on Swift's adaptation to the music industry's changing dynamics.
* Her shift from releasing albums every two years to more frequent releases.
* Analysis of her blend of abundant content and scarce online presence.
0:31:51 - Taylor Swift's Fan-Obsessed Strategy (14 Minutes)
* Exploration of Swift's marketing strategy focused on fan engagement.
* Use of subtle clues and inside jokes to create anticipation among fans.
* Examination of her decision to re-record albums and its impact on fan loyalty.
0:46:14 - Taylor Swift's Founder Mentality and Risk (10 Minutes)
* Examination of Swift's instinct-driven career decisions.
* Comparison of her strategy to tech giants like Apple and Amazon.
* Discussion on her music-first philosophy and founder mentality.
0:56:10 - Taylor Swift's Resilient and Innovative Career (12 Minutes)
* Analysis of Swift's ability to adapt and thrive in the streaming age.
* Examination of her strategic pivots and their impact on her career.
* Reflection on her focus on passions and connection with superfans.
Links
There's Nothing Like This - https://www.nothinglikethisbook.com/
HBR Summary: https://hbr.org/2025/03/the-strategic-genius-of-taylor-swift
Kevin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-evers1/
Why do people have affairs? What lessons can we learn from infidelity?
It's estimated that an affair will impact one in five of us, yet it tends to be a taboo subject.
So, on this episode, I'm going to break that taboo and explore the hidden world of affairs with psychoanalyst and author Juliet Rosenfeld.
Juliet’s book, Affairs: Stories of Love, Lies, Hope and Desire, is an intimate look at why people have affairs, how those relationships shape us, and what they reveal about the unconscious forces at work in our lives.
Episode Summary
In a fascinating discussion, we talk about the stories she gathered for the book, how she approached them ethically, and what she’s learned about the powerful, often destructive, pull of infidelity.
I also ask Juliet about her own experience as a psychoanalyst; how she balances her clinical insights with the need to write in a way that’s both honest and protective of the people involved. Juliet explains how she turned the consulting room into a space for exploration, not exposure, and how the stories she’s collected show just how deeply affairs touch the lives of everyone they involve.
From the idea of the couple to the unconscious roots of our desires, we unpack some of the most complex questions about relationships and risk. Throughout our conversation, Juliet brings a refreshingly human — and humane — perspective to a topic that’s often shrouded in shame and secrecy.
Whether you’ve ever experienced an affair yourself or just want to understand why people cross these lines, this episode offers insights that go far beyond the headlines.
Guest Biography
Juliet Rosenfeld is an author and a psychoanalyst working in private practice in London. She is particularly interested in the unconscious forces that shape our relationships and behaviours.
Juliet’s second book, Affairs: Stories of Love, Lies, Hope and Desire, explores the complex terrain of infidelity through a psychoanalytic lens, blending real stories with her own reflections and insights.
She is a member of professional psychotherapy and psychoanalysis associations in the UK and is deeply engaged in thinking about the ethical dimensions of her work. Beyond her practice,
Juliet has also been a board member of the UK Council for Psychotherapy (UKCP) and is passionate about making the insights of psychoanalysis accessible to a general audience.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and Juliet Rosenfeld
[00:01:00] Exploring what affairs are really about and how unconscious forces shape them
[00:02:00] Juliet’s background as a psychoanalyst and the role of the unconscious
[00:04:00] How relationship struggles underpin so many issues Juliet sees in her work
[00:05:00] Why Juliet wrote the book and how affairs are inherently risky
[00:07:00] The foundational idea of the couple and how it shapes us from birth
[00:08:00] Ethical dilemmas of writing about real people’s affairs
[00:11:00] Juliet’s approach: interviewing participants who weren’t her patients
[00:13:00] Balancing her clinical mindset with the demands of writing
[00:16:00] The role of supervision in psychotherapy and its relevance to Juliet’s work
[00:18:00] The challenge of anonymising the stories while staying true to them
[00:20:00] Juliet’s thoughts on police requests for therapist notes and patient confidentiality
[00:22:00] The differences in the regulation of therapists in the UK vs the US
[00:26:00] The importance of trust, supervision, and the intense relationship with a supervisor
[00:30:00] Why Juliet believes statutory regulation of psychotherapy is important
[00:34:00] How affairs spark intense public reactions and fascination
[00:37:00] The long-term impact of divorce and affairs on children
[00:42:00] How affairs can be a way of finding solutions to deep personal problems
[00:45:00] The uniqueness of each affair story and the problem of generalisations
[00:47:00] The role of disappointment and the challenges of long-term love
[00:49:00] Juliet’s thoughts on how therapy can help couples
[00:53:00] Why no one comes to see her at the start of an affair
[00:56:00] The emotional investment and secrecy that affairs demand
[00:59:00] The final reflections on why Juliet wrote the book and what it revealed to her
[01:05:00] Closing remarks and where to find Juliet’s book
Links
Juliet’s website with details of her work and books: https://julietrosenfeld.co.uk/
The UK Council for Psychotherapy (UKCP): https://www.psychotherapy.org.uk/
Have you ever wondered how much of your success is down to luck? What if the world is far less fair and predictable than we’d like to think?
On this episode, I explore the complex and fascinating role of luck in our lives and decisions with Dr. Chengwei Liu, Associate Professor of Strategy and Behavioural Science at Imperial College London. Chengwei shares how his research challenges our assumptions about skill, effort, and fairness – and why the outcomes we see are often far more random than we’d like to believe.
We discuss why many successful strategies and best practices are built on shaky ground, and how our tendency to downplay luck creates illusions of control and reinforces unfair systems. Chengwei explains how beliefs in fairness – like the ‘just world’ hypothesis – shape everything from business cultures to political systems, and how luck and misperceptions of it can create cycles of privilege or disadvantage.
Chengwei also shares practical insights on how to become a smart contrarian: someone who can harness the power of randomness and serendipity while avoiding the pitfalls of bias and overconfidence. From the dangers of blindly following the ‘successful’ to the need to look inward and embrace uniqueness, it’s a thought-provoking conversation that will change the way you think about risk, decision-making, and what it really means to get ahead.
Guest Biography
Dr. Chengwei Liu is an Associate Professor of Strategy and Behavioural Science at Imperial College London. He describes himself as someone fascinated by how luck, randomness, and human biases shape success and failure – both in business and in broader society.
Chengwei’s work challenges mainstream management thinking and explores how much of what we attribute to skill is actually the result of random factors.
His book, Luck: A Key Idea for Business and Society, examines these dynamics and how we can learn to navigate them.
Beyond his academic roles, Chengwei has also worked as a management consultant, drawing on his experience in both research and practice to uncover how to harness luck and uncertainty.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:02:00] Chengwei explains his research focus on randomness and variance in firm performance
[00:04:00] The overlooked 50% of variance in outcomes: luck and randomness
[00:06:00] Defining luck as what lies beyond our control and foresight
[00:08:00] The conflict between fairness beliefs and the reality of luck
[00:10:00] Luck’s societal implications: why fairness perceptions differ across countries
[00:11:00] Skill versus luck – how we confuse the two in our narratives
[00:13:00] Why successful people over-attribute their success to skill
[00:15:00] Managers vs entrepreneurs: how they differ in acknowledging luck
[00:17:00] The challenges of researching an elusive concept like luck
[00:18:00] Using mathematical models to understand Black Swan events
[00:20:00] Why successful predictions of Black Swan events don’t indicate forecasting skill
[00:23:00] The problem with best practices from ‘successful’ firms
[00:26:00] Selection bias in business books and the danger of survivor bias
[00:29:00] The ‘too good to be true’ heuristic as a guide
[00:31:00] Contrarian thinking as a survival strategy for uncertainty
[00:33:00] The replication crisis and the problem with social science predictability
[00:35:00] Human curiosity: the power of moderate surprises
[00:37:00] The difference between luck and serendipity
[00:39:00] How to encourage serendipity in our lives
[00:41:00] Embracing uniqueness and avoiding conformity
[00:44:00] Lessons for the age of AI and human creativity
[00:46:00] The dangers of ignoring randomness: when biases become destructive
[00:48:00] Exploiting others’ biases for strategic advantage
[00:50:00] Why ‘smart contrarian’ thinking is more important than ever
[00:53:00] Testing contrarian ideas like a scientist
[00:56:00] The limits of trial and error: learning from mistakes
[00:58:00] Chengwei’s ongoing research: minority decision-making in venture capital
[01:00:00] How passion and variance link to VC investment strategies
[01:02:00] Wrapping up with reflections on luck, curiosity, and human creativity
LinksDr. Chengwei Liu’s book, Luck: A Key Idea for Business and Society: https://www.routledge.com/Luck-A-Key-Idea-for-Business-and-Society/Liu/p/book/9781138094260?
Chengwei Liu’s Imperial College faculty webpage: https://profiles.imperial.ac.uk/c.liu
What is psychological harm, and can we really regulate it? Should an AI-companion app be allowed to dump the person who is using it?
📝 Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined once again by Professor Magda Osman, someone who’s been on the show several times before, who always has something compelling to say.
This time, we're talking about psychological harm, a term you’ve probably heard, but which remains vague, slippery, and surprisingly unhelpful when it comes to actually protecting people.
Together, we explore what psychological harm really means, why defining it matters, and why regulating it, especially in digital contexts, is so tricky.
We draw comparisons to physical harm, ask whether some emotional distress might be necessary, and consider what kinds of harm are moral rather than measurable.
The conversation touches on loneliness, AI companions, consent, and even chainsaws!
👤 Guest Biography
Magda is a Principal Research Associate at the Judge Business School, University of Cambridge, and holds a Professorial position at Leeds Business School, University of Leeds, where she supports policy impact.
She describes herself as a psychologist by training, with specific interests in decision-making under risk and uncertainty, folk beliefs in the unconscious, and behavioural change effectiveness.
Magda works at the intersection of behavioural science, regulation, and public policy, offering practical insights that challenge assumptions and bring clarity to complex issues.
⏱️ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction and framing of psychological harm
[00:02:00] The conceptual problems with defining psychological harm
[00:05:00] Psychological harm and the precautionary principle in digital regulation
[00:08:00] Social context, platform functions, and why generalisations don’t work
[00:12:00] The idea of rites of passage and unavoidable suffering
[00:15:00] AI companion apps and emotional dependency
[00:17:00] Exploitation, data harvesting, and moral transparency
[00:22:00] Frustration as normal vs. actual psychological damage
[00:26:00] The danger of regulating the trivial and the need for precision
[00:29:00] Why causal links are necessary for meaningful intervention
[00:33:00] Legal obligations and holding tech companies to account
[00:38:00] What users actually care about: privacy, data, trust
[00:42:00] Society’s negotiation of what counts as tolerable harm
[00:45:00] Why this isn’t an unprecedented problem — and how we’ve faced it before
[00:50:00] The risk of bad definitions leading to bad regulation
[00:54:00] Two contrasting examples of online services and their impacts
[00:57:00] What kind of regulation might we actually need?
[00:59:00] The case for rethinking how regulation itself is structured
[01:01:00] Where to find Magda’s work and final reflections
🔗 Links
Magda's LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/magda-osman-11165138/
Her website: https://www.magdaosman.com/
Magda’s previous appearances on the show exploring:
Behavioural Interventions that fail:https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-magda-osman-on-behavioural/
Unconscious Bias: what is it, and can we train people not to show it?https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-magda-osman-on-unconscious/
Compliance, Coercion & Competence
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-magda-osman-on-compliance-coercion-competence/
Misinformationhttps://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-magda-osman-on-misinformation/
Risk Prioritisationhttps://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-magda-osman-on-risk-prioritisation/
What do chemistry, committees and cooking have in common? They’re all things which have formed part of the career of my guest on this episode. She’s Sarah Ward, owner of The Cookery Lab, a unique cookery school that uses a science-led approach to teaching cooking skills.
I first met Sarah when we worked together on governance at the Bank of England. She began her carerer as a chemist, before switching — for reasons she explains on the show — to regulation. And now she’s a chef.
In a fascinating discussion, I explore with Sarah how her scientific background shapes her approach to teaching cooking, emphasizing that it’s not just about following recipes but about understanding the structure and science behind the food. Sarah shares how a pivotal experience teaching cooking at her son's school reignited her passion and led her to create a unique culinary space that blends chemistry and cookery.
Sarah also reflects on her regulatory background, discussing the unexpected parallels between governance and gastronomy. From her time at the Bank of England to her experiences in professional kitchens, she reveals how good governance and good cooking share common themes – structure, discipline, and the ability to adapt under pressure. She also touches on how her teaching methods aim to empower everyday cooks to feel more confident and creative in the kitchen.
We round off the conversation by discussing her vision for the Cookery Lab, her thoughts on the art versus science debate in cooking, and how she’s combining her corporate experience with her culinary passion to teach life skills through food. Whether you love to cook or avoid the kitchen at all costs, Sarah’s insights offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to rethink their relationship with food and/or their career.
Guest Biography:
Sarah describes herself as a chef, educator, and owner of the Cookery Lab – a unique cookery school that uses a science-led approach to teaching cooking skills.
Prior to founding the Cookery Lab, Sarah worked in chemistry, financial regulation, and governance at the Bank of England. Her background in chemistry informs her cooking classes, where she helps everyday cooks understand the scientific principles behind recipes, encouraging them to experiment and build confidence in the kitchen.
The Cookery Lab is designed to look like a chemistry classroom, complete with lab chairs, beakers, and test tubes, reinforcing Sarah’s mission to demystify cooking through science. The Cookery Lab offers classes for all ages, focusing on life skills, confidence-building, and the joy of cooking, regardless of prior experience.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to Sarah Ward and her career path
[00:01:00] From chemistry to regulation to cooking
[00:02:30] What is the Cookery Lab?
[00:04:00] Why cooking is a life skill everyone should learn
[00:05:30] The pivotal moment at her son's school kitchen
[00:07:00] Childhood memories of a sandwich shop project
[00:10:00] The governance and gastronomy connection
[00:12:00] The leap from chemistry to financial regulation
[00:14:00] What Solvency II taught her about governance
[00:16:00] The importance of reading board minutes
[00:20:00] How Sarah applied her regulatory background in the kitchen
[00:23:00] Learning leadership lessons from Michelin-starred chefs
[00:27:00] Kitchen culture and the art of giving feedback
[00:30:00] The challenges of transitioning from corporate to culinary
[00:34:00] How science influences her teaching style
[00:38:00] Creating a unique learning space at the Cookery Lab
[00:42:00] How cooking can be both art and science
[00:46:00] Lessons learned from running the Cookery Lab
[00:50:00] Final thoughts and where to find Sarah
Links:
The Cookery Lab: https://www.thecookerylab.com/
Sarah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-ward-87406147/
Tech Camp, the business run by Sarah’s husband teaching kids real engineering and programming through custom take-home projects: https://www.techcamp.org.uk/
Leith’s culinary school: https://leiths.com/
The research that shows that eating together can increase happiness: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/mar/comment-why-sharing-meals-can-make-people-happier-what-evidence-142-countries-shows
What do people have to do with cybersecurity? A lot. As with other fields of human risk, it’s people that are typically the root cause of problems in the cybersecurity world. Which is where my guest’s expertise in behavioural design comes into play.
On this episode, I’m speaking with Sarah Aalborg, a cybersecurity and behavioural design expert who’s on a mission to change how organisations approach IT security.
Rather than focusing on firewalls and tech solutions, Sarah examines the human behaviours that can undermine even the best-designed security systems.
Her new book, Secure by Choice, challenges conventional security thinking by exploring how cognitive biases affect security professionals and how to use behavioural design to reshape security culture.
We discuss the pitfalls of traditional security training – particularly those phishing tests that feel more like traps than training – and how to flip the script by focusing on what we want people to do rather than what we want them to avoid.
Sarah shares practical strategies for using positive reinforcement, creating engaging training experiences, and making security less about fear and more about action.
By applying principles of behavioural science and risk-based thinking, Sarah explains how we can bridge the gap between security policies and everyday human behaviour.
Guest Biography
Sarah Aalborg is a cybersecurity expert and behavioural design advocate, focusing on how cognitive biases impact IT security professionals and their decision-making processes.
She is the author of Secure by Choice, a book that challenges conventional approaches to cybersecurity training by applying principles of behavioural science to security culture.
With a background in IT security spanning over two decades, Sarah speaks at major security events and consults with organisations on how to create more effective, engaging, and human-centric security programs.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:01:00] Meet Sarah Aalborg – Why she wrote Secure by Choice and her journey into behavioural design.
[00:03:00] The '20-centimetre above the keyboard' exercise – How human inaction impacts tech security.
[00:05:00] Why phishing tests feel like entrapment – and how to flip the script.
[00:08:00] Turning phishing tests into positive reinforcement opportunities.
[00:10:00] How a simple 'Report Suspicious Email' button can change behaviours.
[00:12:00] The problem with fear-based messaging in cybersecurity.
[00:14:00] Why telling people what NOT to do isn’t effective.
[00:15:00] Sarah’s four-step framework for creating risk-aware security cultures.
[00:17:00] Why most security training is designed to address the wrong problem.
[00:20:00] The McDonald's kiosk example – What we can learn from other industries.
[00:25:00] The importance of actionable examples in security training.
[00:30:00] The generative AI paradox – When tech meets human bias.
[00:35:00] Why AI is the ultimate behavioural science challenge.
[00:40:00] The 'Operating System' analogy – Why the human brain is still running Stone Age software.
[00:50:00] Why cyber professionals need to look outside their own industry for inspiration.
[00:55:00] The role of curiosity and exploration in designing effective security programs.
Links:Sarah’s website: https://securebychoice.com/
Sarah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-aalborg-bb348a1/
Secure by Choice:https://securityblendbooks.com/products/secure-by-choice?
What really happens Behind The Scenes at Human Risk?
📝 Episode Summary
In this special ‘takeover’ episode of the show, I’m taking you behind the scenes of my work at Human Risk. Because interviewing myself would be odd, friend of the show Sarah Abramson takes the interviewer’s seat. She delves into my journey, exploring the intersections of curiosity, compliance, and creativity that have shaped my career.
We discuss the origins of my interest in human behaviour, the evolution of the Human Risk brand, and how blending personal experiences with professional insights can lead to more authentic and engaging content.
I reflect on the challenges and rewards of building a brand that aligns closely with one's identity, the importance of storytelling, the role of improvisation in presentations, and the value of staying curious.
I also talk about the show, why I started it, and the principles behind it.
👤 Guest Biography
Christian Hunt is the host of the show and the founder of Human Risk Ltd, a behavioural Science-led consultancy and training firm. Guest host Sarah Abramson is a marketing and communications professional with a passion for storytelling and human-centred design.
She is the Head of Marketing at Acteon, a communication and learning agency based in Cambridge. Sarah also organises ‘Speak to the Human’ an annual event, which focuses on effective communication strategies in organisations. Her work emphasises the importance of understanding human behaviour to drive meaningful change.
⏱️ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Sarah introduces the episode and takes over hosting duties
[00:02:00] Christian shares how his curiosity about human behaviour began in childhood
[00:04:00] Why irrational behaviour fascinates him and how literature shaped his thinking
[00:06:00] From regulation to behavioural science — realising compliance needed a human lens
[00:12:00] Christian explains why Human Risk is really a “C2C” business, not B2B
[00:15:00] The three types of clients who engage him and why middle-ground organisations don’t
[00:21:00] The Twitter account mix-up that made Christian realise the brand is him
[00:27:00] Christian describes his creative process and taking inspiration from odd places
[00:32:00] Why performance matters in speaking — and why he refuses to send slides early
[00:38:00] On using virtual presentation tools to create better audience experiences
[00:43:00] Why rinse-and-repeat keynotes don’t work — what live shows can learn from comedians
[00:56:00] Using personality and humour to engage on social media and at conferences
[01:03:00] Christian explains how podcasting fits his personal and professional goals
[01:24:00] Advising clients: letting them be the hero and respecting their resistance
[01:26:00] The psychology of change and why agency matters
[01:28:00] What excites Christian about AI — especially human responses to it
[01:30:00] Wrap-up and final thoughts
🔗 Relevant Links & Podcast Episodes
Acteon Communications: https://www.acteoncommunication.com/
Human Risk pod Sarah Abramson on Speaking to The Human 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sarah-abramson-on-speaking-to-the-human/
Hannah Williams on the Art of Live Scribing 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hannah-williams-on-the-art-of-live-scribing/
Heather Urquhart on Improvisation Part One 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-one/ Part Two 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-two/
Fraser Simpson on Making Ethics Engaging 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/fraser-simpson-on-making-ethics-engaging/
Speak To The Human pod Christian Hunt on Bringing Behavioural Science to Risk Management
🎧 👉 https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-2/
Fraser Simpson on a Game-Changing Ethics Engagement
🎧 👉 https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-5/
Heather Urquhart on Overcoming Fear of Failure 🎧 👉 https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-9/
Hannah Williams on Visual Communication
🎧 👉 https://www.acteoncommunication.com/podcast/episode-12/
What's the most important thing we can all do to be happy? According to my guest on this episode, it's embracing the thing that made us weird as kids.
🎙️ Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined once again by the inimitable James Victore — artist, author, and creative provocateur — to explore the power of embracing your inner weirdo.
James has just published Hey Weirdo, an eBook that argues the very things that made us weird as kids are exactly what make us great as adults. We talk about where those quirks come from, how society teaches us to repress them, and why reclaiming them might just be the most important thing we do.
The book is based on a series of interviews with people that have succeeded by embracing their inner weirdo. In our conversation, James shares some of these powerful and deeply personal stories, including his personal memory of a melted crayon puddle that’s coloured his creative journey ever since. We reflect on how childhood experiences, especially the ones where we were scolded or told off for stepping out of line, often hold the keys to our authentic selves.
James also shares details of the other interviews from the book, revealing how other successful creatives found their voice by tuning into what made them “weird.” This episode is funny, raw, and honest. We talk about creative freedom, workplace conformity, artistic boundaries, and why our quirks are not only worth celebrating but essential for a fulfilling life.
It’s a call to arms for anyone who’s ever felt out of place, and a reminder that the world doesn’t need more normal — it needs more you.
👤 Guest Bio - James Victore
James Victore is an artist, lecturer, author, and self-described firestarter. He’s a creative provocateur whose work and teaching challenge people to trust their weirdness and embrace their unique voice.
James is the author of multiple books, including Feck Perfuction and his latest, Hey Weirdo, which builds on his belief that the things that made us weird as kids are the very things that can make us great as adults.
Beyond how he describes himself, James is also a celebrated designer and educator whose work has appeared in the Museum of Modern Art and who has taught at the School of Visual Arts in New York.
His Instagram feed (@jamesvictore) is a playground of raw creativity, insight, and bold truth-telling — a direct extension of his belief in living a life on your own terms.
🔗 Useful Links
James' new book: Hey Weirdo
His last book: Feck Perfuction
His first appearance on this show: talking about Creative Courage:
Social media: James on Instagram
The DO Book Company,the publisher for whom James designs covers
James' podcast The Right Questions
⏱️ AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and theme of being weird
[00:01:00] James joins and introduces his new eBook Hey Weirdo
[00:03:00] Exploring the etymology of "weird" and book origins
[00:05:00] Childhood norms, creativity, and self-love
[00:07:00] The melted crayon memory and its lifelong creative influence
[00:10:00] The emotional contrast between child and parent perspectives
[00:11:00] Interview with Suzy Batiz and floral wallpaper insight
[00:13:00] Lena Jensen’s story and discovery of her own weirdness
[00:15:00] Society’s role in normalising behaviour and stifling creativity
[00:17:00] The play, joy, and love that get trained out of us
[00:19:00] How weirdness becomes a superpower
[00:21:00] Workplace conformity and annual performance boxes
[00:23:00] Why truly creative people are disruptive — and that’s good
[00:24:00] Autonomy vs chaos: setting creative boundaries
[00:26:00] How to reconnect with childhood weirdness
[00:28:00] Workbook coming soon to help readers find their voice
[00:29:00] Reflecting on discomfort in adulthood as a weirdness clue
[00:30:00] Trauma from work, education, and criticism
[00:32:00] Tolerance and respecting other people’s weirdness
[00:33:00] The emotional resistance to following your voice
[00:35:00] Changing jobs vs changing yourself
[00:37:00] How Lena Jensen built a creative career by being herself
[00:39:00] Why commoditised paths are actually riskier
[00:41:00] The lie behind “brave” career choices
[00:43:00] The real sin: not using your voice or your gifts
[00:45:00] Memories are made from weirdness, not routine
[00:46:00] Green rooms, creative boundaries, and artistic standards
[00:48:00] How James negotiated creative freedom in client work
[00:50:00] Trusting your weirdness and finding your audience
[00:52:00] Negative feedback, criticism, and learning to accept it
[00:54:00] Why everything — good or bad — is a teacher
[00:56:00] The danger of chasing money over fulfilment
[00:57:00] Corporate incentives and “compensation”
[00:59:00] Where to find James and how to get Hey Weirdo
Why was there a women’s orchestra in Auschwitz, and what can that help us understand human resilience?
In this deeply moving episode of the show, I speak with Anne Sebba — renowned biographer, historian, and journalist — about one of the Holocaust’s most extraordinary and little-known stories: the Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz.
Anne’s latest book tells the story of how a group of female prisoners were forced to form an orchestra in one of the most brutal Nazi concentration camps. They played not for celebration or escape, but as part of the machinery of terror — and yet, through music, they found a way to survive.
As Anne shares, her journey into this story began with a startling personal discovery: her father was present at Bergen-Belsen shortly after its liberation. That visceral connection led her to uncover the story of Alma Rosé, the orchestra’s conductor and the niece of Gustav Mahler, who used discipline and musical brilliance to save lives.
We talk about the complexities of human behaviour, the ethical dilemmas of survival, and the way music — even when twisted into a tool of torture — remained a powerful expression of the human spirit.
We also explore how Anne approached telling this story as someone who is neither a survivor nor the child of survivors. She explains the challenges of working with conflicting testimonies, the emotional toll of researching this subject, and why she took piano lessons while writing the book.
Above all, this episode is about the resilience of the women who played in the orchestra, and the importance of telling stories that allow us to see history not just in abstract terms, but through individual lives.
👤 About My Guest: Anne Sebba
Anne Sebba is a bestselling biographer, historian, and former Reuters foreign correspondent. She describes herself as a “writer of compelling stories about iconic women,” and has written extensively about women in the 20th century, including Les Parisiennes, That Woman: The Life of Wallis Simpson, and Ethel Rosenberg: A Cold War Tragedy. Her latest work explores the story of the Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz.
Anne is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature and speaks regularly on women’s history and the ethics of storytelling. Her official website is www.annesebba.com.
🕰️ AI-Generated Episode Timestamps
[00:00:00] Introduction to Anne Sebba and the Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz
[00:01:00] How Anne discovered the story and its personal connection
[00:04:00] Anne’s father's presence at Belsen and discovering his handwritten notes
[00:07:00] Why her father never spoke about the war
[00:10:00] Individual stories as a way to process historical horrors
[00:13:00] Interviews with survivors and the challenge of conveying memory
[00:15:00] Navigating the wealth of material and ethical responsibility
[00:18:00] Using memoirs, archives, and testimony
[00:21:00] Anne’s personal journey: taking piano lessons for research
[00:24:00] Music as a tool of torture and as resistance
[00:26:00] The Nazi logic behind having an orchestra in Auschwitz
[00:30:00] How Alma Rosé transformed the orchestra
[00:34:00] Alma’s strict standards and her life-saving leadership
[00:39:00] How tensions within the orchestra reflected broader dynamics
[00:44:00] Spotlight on Hélène (Hilda) and her moral clarity
[00:48:00] The absence of clear moral choices in the camp
[00:51:00] The psychological legacy and postwar trauma
[00:54:00] Antisemitism and internal tensions in the orchestra
[00:57:00] Were there moments of humanity among perpetrators?
[01:01:00] What lessons have — or haven’t — we learned from history?
[01:03:00] Anne on future work and how she finds her stories
[01:05:00] Closing thoughts
🔗 Resources & Links
Anne Sebba’s official website: www.annesebba.com
The Women’s Orchestra of Auschwitz by Anne Sebba https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/anne-sebba/the-women%E2%80%99s-orchestra-of-auschwitz/9781399610735/
Yad Vashem: www.yadvashem.org
Shoah Foundation Archive: sfi.usc.edu/vha
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum: www.ushmm.org
Alma Rosé on Wikipedia: Alma Rosé
Alma Rosé playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQVyd2dz1rk
Bergen-Belsen Liberation: The Liberation Of Bergen-Belsen 15 April 1945 - The Holocaust | IWM
What makes people want to go to museum? How can they ensure they still remain relevant?
I spend a lot of my time in museums. They inspire me, inform me and put me into mindsets I wouldn't otherwise be in. So I wanted to learn more about them.
Episode SummaryOn this episode, I sit down with Matthew McNerney, Chief Creative Officer of Luci Creative, to explore the hidden psychology behind museum design. Matthew has worked on everything from the Lego House in Denmark to presidential libraries, science museums, and even the NASCAR Hall of Fame.
Together, we dive into the ways museum spaces are meticulously crafted to shape how we learn, feel, and interact with history, culture, and ideas. We also discuss the challenges museums face today—from declining visitor numbers to evolving audience expectations—and what it takes to design experiences that are both educational and entertaining.
Along the way, Matthew shares fascinating insights from his career, from how a single professor changed the trajectory of his life to the unexpected lessons learned from working on hospital play spaces. If you've ever been inspired by a museum visit or wondered why some exhibits engage while others fall flat, this conversation is for you.
Guest Biography: Matthew McNerney
Matthew McNerney is the Chief Creative Officer at Luci Creative, a museum and brand experience design firm that works at the intersection of curiosity and change. His work spans a vast array of projects, from designing experiences for the Lego House in Billund, Denmark, to working on presidential libraries, science museums, and the NASCAR Hall of Fame. Matthew’s career in museum design began in an unexpected way — he originally considered becoming a wedding designer before a professor introduced him to the world of exhibition design.
Since then, he has spent over 20 years in the field, crafting experiences that spark curiosity and create lasting impressions. His work is deeply influenced by behavioral science, storytelling, and the psychology of engagement, all of which help him transform physical spaces into immersive learning environments.
Beyond museums, Matthew has also worked on brand experiences, including designing retail environments for New Balance and flagship stores for Tiffany & Co. His expertise lies in creating multisensory experiences that connect people with content in compelling ways.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:01:00] Introducing Matthew McNerney and his work in museum design
[00:02:00] How Matthew got into museum design—pivoting from wedding planning
[00:06:00] The role of museums in shaping collective memory and conversatio
[00:08:00] How museums balance education and entertainment
[00:11:00] The variety of projects Matthew has worked on, from LEGO to NASCAR
[00:14:00] The complexity of designing exhibits that engage diverse audiences
[00:17:00] Museums as the most trusted institutions—but with declining attendance
[00:19:00] Competing for attention: Museums vs. other forms of entertainment
[00:24:00] The challenges of working with subject-matter experts and overcoming "the curse of passion"
[00:29:00] The Mona Lisa effect—why some artworks become pilgrimage sites
[00:32:00] Designing for different visitor experiences and expectations
[00:37:00] Using behavioral science to map visitor engagement strategies
[00:40:00] The hidden barriers that stop people from visiting museums
[00:45:00] The challenge of curating history while staying objective
[00:50:00] Creating curiosity: Making museums a launchpad for deeper exploration
[00:53:00] How Lego taught Matthew a lesson about designing for engagement
[00:55:00] Gamifying museum experiences—how the Cleveland Museum of Art makes learning fun
[00:57:00] The risks and security challenges of modern museum spaces
[01:00:00] Matthew’s favorite museum recommendations
[01:02:00] Where to find Matthew’s work and final thoughts
Links & ReferencesLuci Creative – https://lucicreative.com/
Matthew McNerney’s Website – https://matthewmcnerney.com/
Lego House, Billund, Denmark – https://www.legohouse.com/
Tenement Museum, New York – https://www.tenement.org/
Micropia, Amsterdam – https://www.micropia.nl/en/
Cleveland Museum of Art – ArtLens Exhibit – https://www.clevelandart.org/artlens-gallery
Previous episode of the show featuring Professor Tom Schössler talking about museum innovation - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-tom-schossler-on-deploying/
What if the problem isn’t that you’re not happy enough — but that you’re chasing the wrong kind of happiness altogether?
Show Summary
On this episode I’m joined by Dr Mark Fabian, Associate Professor of Public Policy at the University of Warwick and author of Beyond Happy: How to Rethink Happiness and Find Fulfillment.
Mark argues that our modern obsession with happiness often leads us astray, locking us into an endless cycle of striving without ever feeling satisfied. Drawing on insights from economics, psychology, philosophy, and ancient wisdom, he explains why we need to move beyond the shallow pursuit of happiness and focus instead on building lives of meaning, purpose, and community. We explore:
* How public policy gets wellbeing wrong.
* The limits of the self-help industry and why quick fixes don’t work.
* What ancient wisdom — from Stoicism to folklore — teaches us about a fulfilling life.
* Why understanding yourself is the first step to escaping the hedonic treadmill.
* How to embrace the emotional side of life in a world that overvalues rationality.
Whether you’re looking for a better way to think about happiness, or practical ideas to rethink your life, this episode has something for you.
About Mark
Mark is an Associate Professor of Public Policy at the University of Warwick. His research focuses on wellbeing, public policy design, psychology, and philosophy.
His new book, Beyond Happy: How to Rethink Happiness and Find Fulfillment., offers a fresh perspective on what it means to live a good life in the 21st century.
Links
* Beyond Happy: How to Rethink Happiness and Find Fulfilment by Mark Fabian → HarperCollins
* Mark's official website → markfabian.com (Google Sites)
* His University of Warwick profile → warwick.ac.uk
* Bennett Institute at Cambridge → bennettinstitute.cam.ac.uk
* ePODstemology podcast → Buzzsprout
* Studio Ghibli films (e.g. Princess Mononoke) → studioghibli.com.au
* Martin Shaw’s Smoke Hole Sessions → Apple Podcasts
* Atomic Habits by James Clear → jamesclear.com
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to Mark Fabian and the concept of Beyond Happy
[00:03:00] Why public policy fails to support true wellbeing
[00:07:00] The hedonic treadmill and limits of chasing happiness
[00:10:00] How ancient wisdom and ritual can reframe modern life
[00:15:00] Critique of the self-help industry and overuse of “science-backed” hacks
[00:20:00] Emotional signals and the importance of listening to yourself
[00:25:00] Identity formation and the value of working out what drives you
[00:32:00] Emotional intelligence and the power of asking for care
[00:39:00] Self-actualisation as a social process, not a solo journey
[00:46:00] Writing the book and the personal transformation it brought
[00:53:00] The role of culture, community, and myth in shaping values
[00:57:00] Final reflections on empathy, cooperation, and the future of fulfilment
What makes an organisation toxic, and how can we spot the signs before it’s too late? What are the common traits that make seemingly unrelated organisations, ranging from the Catholic Church to corporations, do harm?
On this episode, I’m joined once again by one of my favourite guests — Professor Benjamin van Rooij — for a deep dive into the hidden dangers of organisational life.
Benjamin and his co-author, Professor Nicholas Lord, are working on a new book (working title) Toxic: Organisations Gone Bad, which explores not just headline-grabbing scandals, but the patterns of behaviour and structures that consistently lead organisations to cause harm.
Summary
In our discussion, we unpack how organisational processes — like silencing, secrecy, and the relentless pursuit of unrealistic goals — can multiply risk.
Benjamin explains why organisations, both public and private, can become “toxic” not simply due to bad people or poor oversight, but because of a combination of systemic dynamics and cultural norms that reward silence, over-ambition, and passive harm.
We also discuss why the term “toxic” itself is both useful and problematic, and how understanding these dynamics can help leaders make better decisions before disaster strikes; whether it’s Facebook’s role in spreading misinformation, Wells Fargo’s aggressive sales targets, or the normalization of deviance at Chernobyl and Enron, Benjamin helps us trace the common threads that connect seemingly unrelated crises.
And, true to form, he doesn’t offer simplistic solutions — instead, he gives us tools to ask better questions, challenge dominant narratives, and push for root-cause thinking over box-ticking fixes.
Guest Biography
Benjamin is Professor in Law and Society and Director of Research at the School of Law at the University of Amsterdam, as well as a Global Professor of Law at the University of California, Irvine.
In his academic work, Benjamin specialises in understanding how laws and regulations operate within real-world organisational settings, focusing on compliance, harm, and institutional accountability. He blends criminology, behavioural science, and legal studies to explore why people and institutions obey (or disobey) rules, and what systems best support ethical behaviour.
Previous appearances
On COVID Compliance 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-1/
On Questioning Compliance 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-questioning-compliance/
On The Behavioral Code 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on/
On Compliance 2.0 with Professor Danny Sokol 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-benjamin-van-rooij/
On Measuring Compliance with Professor Melissa Rorie 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-melissa-rorie-benjamin-van-rooij-on-measuring-compliance/
Links
Benjamin's profile at UVA: https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html?cb
The Behavior Code: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/676270/the-behavioral-code-by-benjamin-van-rooij-and-adam-fine/
AI Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to toxic organisations and examples from Netflix-level scandals
[00:01:00] Benjamin van Rooij’s background and new book with Nicholas Lord
[00:03:00] Organisations as multipliers of harm, active vs passive harm
[00:04:00] The inductive approach — identifying patterns across scandals
[00:05:00] Why the term “toxic” is used despite its flaws
[00:06:00] How scandals like VW, Enron, and Boeing capture our imagination
[00:07:00] How the media and society react to scandals: harm → individuals → system
[00:08:00] Bad apples vs the “orchard” — systems shaping behaviour
[00:10:00] Connecting dots across different kinds of organisations
[00:11:00] Organisational secrecy and silencing — beyond simple fear
[00:13:00] Examples: Chernobyl, 3M, Enron — passive and active silencing
[00:14:00] Leadership failure patterns — neglect and irresponsibility
[00:15:00] Identifying patterns through reading, criminology, and org science
[00:16:00] How case studies were selected and why some were excluded
[00:19:00] Similar patterns across companies, churches, and political parties
[00:20:00] Book opens with contrast: Communist Party famine vs Purdue Pharma
[00:21:00] Unrealistic targets — why they’re the most important insight
[00:23:00] The mismatch between organisational goals and available means
[00:25:00] Scale and complexity: why modern orgs are different
[00:28:00] Limitations of simple solutions — complexity and nuance matter
[00:29:00] Leaders must balance ambition and safety, long-term vs short-term
[00:30:00] Why most harmful processes aren’t illegal — and that’s the problem
[00:32:00] Comparing organisational toxicity to viruses — some survive, some don’t
[00:34:00] Groupthink and cultural dynamics — the dangers of agreement
[00:36:00] Asking questions as a powerful organisational intervention
[00:38:00] Why we often don’t know what’s bad for us — lacking language or insight
[00:41:00] Empowering employees to ask the right questions backed by theory
[00:42:00] Why short-term thinking is embedded in systems and markets
[00:45:00] The overuse and misuse of “culture” as an explanation
[00:47:00] The need for genuine root-cause analysis
[00:48:00] Compliance playbooks vs reality — solutions don’t always fit
[00:51:00] The gap between what we do and what works — “compliance theatre”
[00:54:00] Good times can sow the seeds of harm — ambition blinds risk
[00:56:00] Organisations as overstretched systems — especially with scale
[00:58:00] Social media companies as a case of toxic organisational harm
[01:01:00] Retweet buttons, algorithms and unintended consequences
[01:02:00] Finalising the book and expanding it to include social media
[01:03:00] New project: The US executive branch as a potentially toxic organisation
[01:05:00] Conclusion and final reflections
How can we prevent violence against women? And what role do men who don't engage in violence, have to play?
This episode tackles a serious, but important topic. Violence against women affects millions worldwide, yet too often, the focus is placed on how women can protect themselves rather than addressing the behaviors and systems that enable violence in the first place. This isn’t a problem women can solve alone—society as a whole, and particularly men, need to be part of the solution. But how do we move from awareness to meaningful change?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I sit down with Amy Watson, the founder of HASSL, an organization dedicated to tackling the root causes of female harassment and violence against women.
We explore the traditional responses to these issues, why they fall short, and what needs to change. Amy shares her personal experiences that led her to launch HASSL and how her entrepreneurial mindset is driving her mission.
We discuss how Amy is using a business model, rather than a charity, to fund and scale her impact. She explains her five-stage strategy, which includes education, community engagement, and innovative reporting technology designed to make it easier for victims to seek justice.
She also highlights the importance of engaging men in the conversation, not as part of the problem, but as critical allies in creating safer spaces.Beyond the specifics of violence against women, this conversation offers lessons for anyone interested in advocacy, making a difference, or building a business with a social purpose.
Amy’s story is one of determination, strategic thinking, and the belief that real change is possible when we tackle problems at their root.
Guest Biography
Amy Watson is the founder of HASSL, a newly launched organization dedicated to addressing the root causes of harassment and violence against women. With a background in entrepreneurship and a degree focused on business innovation, Amy has always been drawn to projects that combine social impact with business acumen.
Before launching HASSL, she worked as the COO of a health tech startup, where she honed her skills in building and scaling a mission-driven company. Her experience of being harassed in broad daylight—and the realization that no one stepped in to help—was the catalyst for founding HASSL.
Rather than relying on traditional awareness campaigns, Amy is focused on using a business model to fund long-term solutions, including workplace training, school education programs, and cutting-edge reporting technology.
She has rapidly grown a strong community, with over 250,000 social media followers and an ambassador network of 650+ individuals dedicated to making society safer for women.
AI Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and why this conversation is essential.
[00:01:00] Why violence against women is not just a women's issue—it's a societal issue.
[00:02:00] Introduction to guest Amy Watson and the mission of HASSL.
[00:03:00] Amy’s background in entrepreneurship and social impact.
[00:06:00] The personal experience that led Amy to start HASSL.
[00:09:00] Why traditional solutions focus too much on reaction rather than prevention.
[00:12:00] The role of governments vs. private initiatives in solving societal issues.
[00:15:00] The business strategy behind HASSL and why it’s structured as a social enterprise.
[00:17:00] The importance of bootstrapping and keeping control over the mission.
[00:21:00] The five-stage plan for HASSL’s growth and impact.
[00:26:00] The broader implications of addressing harassment beyond public spaces.
[00:29:00] The messaging strategy—why starting with strong advocates is key.
[00:35:00] Understanding the spectrum of male allyship and how to shift behavior.
[00:40:00] The challenge of balancing strong messaging with accessibility.
[00:47:00] Addressing the “not all men” argument and why it misses the point.
[00:56:00] Why men need to be part of the solution, not just observers.
[01:02:00] The importance of scalable advocacy and shifting the messaging over time.
[01:07:00] How workplace training can engage people who might not otherwise listen.
[01:12:00] The need for a more inclusive and engaging approach to education.
[01:20:00] Final thoughts on what needs to change and how listeners can help.
Links
Hassl website - www.hassl.uk
What does tea have to do with human behaviour? A lot more than you might think. On this epusoed, I'm exploring one of the world's most popular drinks and what we can learn from it.
Summary
My guest is Giles Oakley, a professional tea taster, entrepreneur, and long-time friend. Giles began his career at Tetley before co-founding Two Spoons Tea, a company dedicated to celebrating tea as the hero crop it is.
Over the course of our conversation, Giles introduces me—and you—to the rich history and intricate science behind tea. From its origins in Camellia sinensis to the skill of blending, he reveals why tea is far more complex than we often think.
Giles takes us behind the scenes of tea tasting and blending, offering fascinating insights into how colour, flavour, and texture are meticulously evaluated. We even do a live tea tasting during the episode!
Along the way, Giles shares incredible stories, from the history of tea pillows to the traditions of tea production in Kenya and Darjeeling. His passion for elevating tea is contagious, and it shines through in the ethos of his company.Whether you’re a casual tea drinker or a full-on enthusiast, this episode has something for you.
Learn about the art of crafting consistent tea blends, the delicate balance of tradition and innovation, and the personal philosophy that drives Giles’ business. And of course, don’t forget to grab a cup of your favourite brew while you listen—it’s the perfect pairing.
Guest Biography
Giles Oakley is a professional tea taster and co-founder of Two Spoons Tea, a company devoted to celebrating tea as a hero crop.
After starting his career at Tetley in 1998, Giles spent over 20 years in the tea industry, travelling the world and mastering the art of tea tasting and blending. With expertise honed in places like Kenya, India, and Malawi, Giles eventually decided to step away from corporate life and create his own tea brand.
Two Spoons Tea focuses on high-quality, ethically sourced blends that honour the social and cultural importance of tea. Giles and his business partner Mark, are committed to using their tea-tasting expertise to provide customers with exceptional, sustainably sourced products.
Their ethos revolves around making tea fun, accessible, and memorable while maintaining the highest standards of quality.
AI Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to tea as a topic and Giles Oakley as the guest
[00:01:00] Giles’ journey into the tea trade and the importance of tea in daily life
[00:03:00] Tea’s global impact and its complex journey from bush to cup
[00:06:00] How blending creates consistency in tea flavours
[00:08:00] The art and science of tea tasting, including blindfolded tastings
[00:11:00] Why tea is an underrated hero crop and its social significance
[00:19:00] Starting Two Spoons Tea and building a company ethos
[00:23:00] The difference between tea bags and tea pillows
[00:27:00] Balancing tradition and innovation in the tea industry
[00:32:00] Tea as a personal and cultural experience
[00:43:00] Myths about tea, including caffeine content and hydration benefits
[00:46:00] Ethical Tea Partnership and ensuring supply chain integrity
[00:48:00] Giles’ most memorable cups of tea
Links
Two Spoons Tea website
Two Spoons Tea Instagram
Ethical Tea Partnership
Camellia sinensis plant
Episodes of the show featuring Professor Charles Spence on Sensory Perception and Sensehacking
How do we create systems that encourage whistleblowing without incentivizing malicious reporting? Should we reward whistleblowers financially? Why is closure important, both for whistleblowers and the organisations they are whistleblowing on?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I speak with Pav Gill, the whistleblower behind the Wirecard scandal and former General Counsel for Wirecard’s Asia Pacific operations.
But this conversation isn’t about Wirecard. Instead, we explore the broader dynamics of whistleblowing—beyond high-profile scandals—focusing on the personal and organizational challenges of speaking up. Pav shares insights into what happens after a whistleblower comes forward, why some struggle to move on while others thrive, and how organizations can encourage reporting without creating perverse incentives.
We discuss the psychological toll of whistleblowing, the role of incentives in encouraging disclosures, and the importance of closure—not just for individuals but for entire organizations.
Pav also introduces the Confide Platform, his end-to-end whistleblowing platform designed to improve the process for both whistleblowers and companies. With experience as both a whistleblower and a compliance professional, he offers a unique perspective on making whistleblowing work for all stakeholders.
Whether you work in compliance, risk, legal, or HR or are simply interested in ethical business practices, this episode will provide fresh insights into a complex topic.
Guest Biography
Pav Gill is the founder and CEO of The Confide Platform, a whistleblowing tool that streamlines the reporting and management of corporate misconduct. He gained prominence as the whistleblower behind the Wirecard scandal, exposing a multi-billion-dollar fraud that ultimately led to the company’s collapse.
At the time, Pav was General Counsel for Wirecard’s Asia Pacific operations. His decision to speak out was instrumental in bringing the case to light.
Beyond his whistleblowing experience, Pav is a legal and compliance expert with deep knowledge of corporate governance, risk management, and regulatory compliance.
Before founding the Confide Platform, he held leadership roles, providing legal and strategic counsel in high-stakes corporate environments. His insights into whistleblowing—shaped by both personal experience and professional expertise—make him a leading voice on ethical corporate behaviour and whistleblower protections.
📌 Pav on LinkedIn: Pav Gill 📌
The Confide Platform: confideplatform.com
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
00:00:00 - Introduction to Whistleblowing Beyond Wirecard (2 min)
Christian introduces the episode, explaining that this discussion moves beyond the Wirecard scandal to explore the deeper dynamics of whistleblowing. The conversation examines the challenges of speaking up, the psychological toll, and how to encourage ethical disclosures while avoiding perverse incentives.
00:02:42 - Pav Gill’s Journey After Wirecard (4 min)
Pav shares what he has been working on since exposing Wirecard, including founding Confide, an end-to-end whistleblowing platform. He explains why most reporting systems fail to address both the logistical and psychological aspects of whistleblowing.
00:06:25 - Why Whistleblowing Is More Than Just a Hotline (7 min)
Christian and Pav discuss why many organizations see whistleblowing as a simple logistical issue—install a hotline, job done. Pav explains why it’s much more complex, requiring cultural shifts, psychological support, and credible processes that give employees confidence to report misconduct.
00:13:14 - The Fine Line Between Whistleblowing and Malicious Reporting (6 min)
Pav challenges the traditional narrative of whistleblowers as heroes versus corporations as villains. He highlights real cases where people use reporting mechanisms for leverage rather than ethical reasons and explores how organizations can differentiate between genuine concerns and bad-faith claims.
00:19:30 - The Role of Incentives in Whistleblowing (5 min)
We examine the controversial topic of financial rewards for whistleblowers. Pav advocates for rewarding genuine whistleblowers who suffer retaliation but warns against systems that create "honeypots" encouraging opportunistic reporting. The discussion highlights global inconsistencies in whistleblower reward schemes.
00:24:40 - Why Recognition Matters Beyond Financial Rewards (6 min)
Pav emphasizes that whistleblowers need more than just monetary compensation—they need recognition. He discusses how official acknowledgments, career support, and public appreciation can make a difference in how society perceives those who speak up.
00:30:00 - The Stigma of Being a Whistleblower and Career Consequences (7 min)
We discuss why many whistleblowers struggle to find jobs post-disclosure. Pav suggests that companies should rethink how they view whistleblowers, treating them as valuable truth-tellers rather than troublemakers.
00:37:00 - Should Companies Hire Whistleblowers? (5 min)
Christian and Pav explore whether companies should actively hire former whistleblowers, similar to how the cybersecurity industry recruits ex-hackers. We discuss how organizations can harness whistleblowers’ skills while ensuring a constructive work environment.
00:44:00 - Corporate Closure: How Organizations Handle Reports (6 min)
Pav highlights how companies often prioritize moving on from whistleblower cases without fully addressing the underlying issues. We discuss how organizations can achieve proper closure—for both the whistleblower and the company—without leaving unresolved tensions.
00:50:00 - Why Some Whistleblowers Become Angry and Bitter (7 min)
Pav explains why some whistleblowers become embittered, often due to a lack of justice, continued corporate wrongdoing, or personal retaliation. He suggests that structured post-whistleblowing support could help individuals move on positively.
00:57:00 - Lessons for Compliance and Leadership (5 min)
The conversation turns to what compliance leaders and business executives can learn from whistleblowing cases. Pav underscores the importance of designing systems that align with how people actually behave, rather than how companies wish they would behave.
01:02:00 - The Confide Platform: Building a Better Whistleblowing System (5 min)
Pav explains how The Confide Platform seeks to fix the flaws in traditional whistleblowing platforms by ensuring accountability, psychological safety, and transparency. He discusses the platform’s features, such as audit trails and dynamic case management.
01:07:00 - Final Thoughts: The Future of Whistleblowing (3 min)
Pav reflects on his journey, the lessons he has learned, and his mission to improve corporate ethics. We close with a discussion on how organizations can create environments where people feel safe speaking up.
Related Podcast Episodes
📌 Dan McCrum on Wirecard – Insights from his book Money Men 🎧 👉 Listen here
📌 Zelda Perkins on NDAs – Her campaign to limit their use after breaking her NDA to expose Harvey Weinstein 🎧 👉 Listen here
📌 Professor Ludmila Praslova on The Canary Code – How improving conditions for neurodiverse employees benefits everyone 🎧 👉 Listen here
What is the edge of possibility and how can storytelling help us to find it? My guest isn't a storyteller — she's a lawyer, working in compliance — but she's got some fascinating insights to share about how it can help us to effect change. Or, in her words, to find the edge of our possibility.
I've been wanting to get Dr Hemma Lomax on the show for some time, and I'm delighted that in this episode, I've managed to make that happen.
Summary
In a wide-ranging discussion, Hemma shares her unique journey from the UK courtroom to the forefront of corporate compliance in our latest episode.
Her career has been marked by a commitment to understanding human behavior and using storytelling as a tool for transformation. We delve into her insights on curiosity as a driving force in compliance, the importance of breaking into influential spaces, and how her new podcast, "Unless," seeks to inspire action through stories of operationalizing good intentions.
Our discussion spans the intricate dynamics of rule enforcement and the empowering role of embracing curiosity.
Hemma gives her perspective on the hero's journey, not just in personal development but also within the professional landscape and parenting. We explore the transition from being a hero to becoming a guide, both as a parent and leader, highlighting the importance of fostering environments where others can thrive independently.
Finally, we reflect on the legacy one leaves and the pursuit of growth and learning. From encouraging independent thought in compliance to inspiring connections over traditional teachings, Hemma provides a compelling narrative on how wisdom and critical thinking can reshape structures. Join us as we challenge conventional boundaries, celebrate the limitless journey of human potential, and examine the art of building a podcast audience through meaningful connections and continuous self-improvement.
Guest Biography
Dr Hemma R. Lomax is a passionate ethics and compliance professional focused on effective risk management at scale and coaching for compliance.
She was formerly the VP of integrity, governance risk and compliance and associate general counsel at Zendesk, where she leads the global ethics and compliance function. Prior to Zendesk, she served as a senior corporate counsel in the integrity and compliance team at Snap Inc. and as a director in the global ethics and compliance management team at the Walt Disney Co.
Hemma also served for just over a decade prosecuting financial fraud and corruption with the SEC. Hemma is also a British-trained barrister and has previously worked as parliamentary counsel for the UK government and as an adviser at the United Nations for the government of Guyana.
Hemma is a strong advocate for integrity at work, active bystandership and DEI, and she has a PhD in human rights and the role of law in war.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
(00:02) Introduction to Hemma
(06:09) Exploring Boundaries Through Storytelling
(15:39) Empowering Self Through Archetypes
(18:58) Guiding Through Leadership and Parenting
(23:13) Inspiring Connections, Not Teaching
(26:28) Encouraging Independent Thought Through Compliance
(35:48) Challenging Boundaries With Radical Curiosity
(47:30) Living Your Legacy Through Stories
(50:53) Exploring Legacy Milestones Through Storytelling
(55:10) Embracing Human Potential and Self-Improvement
Links
Hemma on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/hemmarlomax/
Unless podcast 🎧 👉 https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/hemma-lomax-unless-podcast/
The Dr Seuss story of the Lorax containing the quote that inspired Unless https://dep.wv.gov/WWE/Programs/nonptsource/Documents/TheLorax.pdf
Great Women in Compliance podcast 🎧 👉 https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/great-women-in-compliance/
Andrew Cordle - https://andrewcordle.com/
Tony Robbins - https://www.tonyrobbins.com/
David Goggins - https://davidgoggins.com/
How does a major global bank keep surviving crises; until it doesn't?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I’m joined by Duncan Mavin, author of Meltdown: Scandal, Sleaze, and the Collapse of Credit Suisse.
Duncan’s book dives deep into the bank’s dramatic downfall, uncovering decades of mismanagement, scandals, and cultural clashes that eventually led to its collapse.
As someone with intersecting touchpoints with Credit Suisse throughout my career, I couldn’t wait to have this conversation.
During our discussion, we explore the intricate dynamics that defined Credit Suisse’s rise and fall, from Swiss banking secrecy laws to the revolving door of executives who struggled to fix a broken culture. Duncan shares eye-opening stories, including the mind-boggling choices made by individuals who valued short-term gains over long-term survival.
This is more than just a tale of one bank’s failure—it’s a masterclass in understanding human behavior, organizational dynamics, and the systemic issues that plague the financial industry.
Whether you’re a financial services expert or a curious observer, this episode will leave you questioning how much has really changed since the financial crisis.
Guest Biography
Duncan Mavin is a financial journalist and author. Over his 20-year journalism career, Duncan has worked at renowned publications like The Wall Street Journal, where he served as Finance Editor for Europe, and Bloomberg News.
Before becoming a journalist, Duncan spent a decade as a finance professional and accountant.
His latest book delves into the story of Credit Suisse, a firm he became intimately familiar with through his reporting and his earlier book on the Greensill scandal.
Duncan’s insightful analysis and gripping storytelling bring to life the human decisions and cultural dynamics that contributed to Credit Suisse’s collapse.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Welcome and Duncan’s background as a financial journalist.
[00:01:00] How Duncan’s first book on Greensill led to Meltdown.
[00:02:00] Credit Suisse’s litany of scandals and its survival against the odds.
[00:06:00] Swiss banking secrecy laws and their unintended consequences.
[00:08:00] Cultural clashes between Swiss and American banking styles.
[00:15:00] The short-term thinking and CEO turnover at Credit Suisse.
[00:25:00] Archegos and Greensill—critical moments in the bank’s collapse.
[00:29:00] How social media accelerated Credit Suisse’s final downfall.
[00:35:00] The reaction in Switzerland to the collapse and the book.
[00:42:00] The ongoing legacy of Credit Suisse and lessons for banking.
[00:50:00] Reflections on regulation and the future of financial services.
Links
Meltdown - https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/duncan-mavin/meltdown/9781035037469
Pyramid of Lies, Duncan's book on Greensill — https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/duncan-mavin/pyramid-of-lies/9781529088922
Duncan on Twitter/X - https://x.com/dumav
The Swiss government report on the collapse of Credit Suisse: https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-103689.html
What can we learn about a country from its favourite sport? A lot. Particularly when that country has a history and culture like Germany. Which is what I'm exploring on this episode.
Even if you're not a football fan, this episode — in a year when Germany goes to the polls — will have something of interest.
Episode Summary
On this episode, I speak with Kit Holden, a British-German journalist and author whose love for German football has led him to uncover the rich tapestry of stories behind the Bundesliga.
Kit's perspective as an "insider, yet outsider" allows him to explore not just what happens on the pitch but also the cultural and societal dynamics that shape the game in Germany. From the legendary 50+1 ownership rule to the passionate fan culture that prioritizes community, we discuss what sets German football apart.
Kit shares his experiences writing two books: Scheisse, We're Going Up, chronicling Union Berlin’s extraordinary journey from underdog to Champions League contender, and Played in Germany, a deep dive into how football reflects the soul of the nation.
Our conversation delves into topics such as fan ownership, regional identities, and the challenges of maintaining tradition while engaging a global audience. Whether you're a football fanatic or a newcomer, this episode offers insights into the intersection of sport, society, and storytelling.
We also explore Kit’s craft as a journalist, how his bilingual skills and cultural curiosity enable him to connect with fans, players, and club officials, and the lessons football can teach us about resilience and identity. With stories that span the Ruhr Valley to the rise of East German clubs, this episode will leave you with a newfound appreciation for the beautiful game and its deeper meanings.
Guest Biography
Kit is a British-German journalist and author based in Berlin. He covers German football for Der Tagesspiegel and AFP, and his work has appeared in The Guardian, The Athletic, and Die Zeit.
Through his work, Kit explores how football reflects societal values, regional traditions, and the challenges of modern commercialization.
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
(00:02) German Football Bundesliga and Fan Culture
German Bundesliga's unique fan-focused ownership structure and its connection to regional identities explored by journalist Kit Holden.
(08:03) Football Fan Stories
Union Berlin's rise to success is a testament to the dedication of its fans and the power of community in sports.
(17:09) East German Football Legacy and Identity
Leipzig's role in German football history divided past and present and challenging traditional values.
(21:55) Uncovering German Regional Identities Through Football
Storytelling in journalism captures historical narratives, regional identities, and football culture in Germany and the UK.
(29:22) German Football and National Identity
Football in Germany connects with the past, regional identities, and post-war narrative while acknowledging and remembering its connections to the Nazi era.
(32:50) Ultras in German Football
German football clubs have taken responsibility for their Nazi ties, with ultras playing a vital role in preserving fan power and resisting private equity investment.
(38:21) German Football and Fan Participation
German football clubs, ultras, and fans debate preserving traditional culture while remaining competitive in the global market.
(43:03) Resilience and Tradition in German Football
Fan culture, commercial interests, private equity, club identity, competitive vitality, local connections, football clubs, and supporters' identities.
(49:30) German Football Clubs and Identity Reimagined
Examining Schalke 04's decline and its impact on Gelsenkirchen while exploring diverse matchday experiences in Bundesliga clubs like Union Berlin and HSV.
Links
Kit's first book Scheisse! We’re Going Up! about Union Berlin's extraordinary rise: https://www.duckworthbooks.co.uk/book/played-in-germany/
His latest book Played in Germany: A Footballing Journey Through A Nation's Soulhttps://linktr.ee/playedingermany and
https://www.duckworthbooks.co.uk/book/scheisse-were-going-up/
Kit's journalistic profiles
The Athletic: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/author/kit-holden/
The Independent: https://www.independent.co.uk/author/kit-holden
Tagesspiegel (in German): https://www.tagesspiegel.de/autoren/kit-holden
A football fan's guide to German football: https://www.footballingermany.com/
What role does experimentation play in making big life and creative decisions? What lessons can podcasters teach us about effective communication in business?
Show Summary
To answer these questions, in this festive episode, I’m thrilled to welcome back two friends of the show, two of my favorite podcasters, Tim Houlihan and Kurt Nelson, co-hosts of the Behavioral Grooves podcast.
Known for their brilliance in behavioral science and knack for experimentation, Tim and Kurt bring unique insights into podcasting, creativity, and decision-making. Together, we dive into their individual projects and collective experiments that push the boundaries of podcasting.
Tim shares his personal behavioral experiment—searching for a new home through a disciplined, satisficing approach. He reveals the challenges and joys of balancing criteria while navigating the stress of decision-making. Meanwhile, Kurt and Tim reflect on their podcasting journey, exploring creative formats like episodic series and Groove Jams.
They also discuss how podcasting can be a powerful tool for internal corporate communication, offering insights into storytelling and audience engagement.
This conversation is packed with reflections on experimentation, the value of adaptability, and how behavioral science can improve our personal and professional lives.
Whether you're a fan of behaviorual science, a podcast enthusiast, or someone looking for fresh perspectives, this episode will inspire and entertain.
Guest Biographies
Tim Houlihan is a seasoned behavioral science communicator. He brings years of expertise in applying behavioral insights to real-world challenges, focusing on decision-making, innovation, and communication.
Kurt Nelson is a behavioral scientist with a passion for leveraging psychology to inspire better outcomes in business and life. Known for his engaging storytelling, Kurt brings deep knowledge of behavioral principles to both podcasting and corporate consulting.
Both of them co-host the fabulous BeSci podcast, Behavioral Grooves, has become a go-to resource for exploring behavioral science concepts through fascinating interviews and creative formats. With over 450 episodes, they continue to redefine the podcasting space.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
(02:00) - Tim's Behavioural Science Experiment of where he should live
(11:32) - Decision-Making and Satisfaction in Housing
(17:26) - Navigating Choices
(21:21) - The Power of Corporate Podcasting
(35:01) - Effective Communication in Organizations
(47:08) - Exploring the Evolution of Behavioural Science Podcast Mini-series
(55:47) - Selecting Podcast Guests
(59:18) - Building Genuine Connections Through Podcasting
(01:07:23) - Future Plans for Behavioral Grooves Podcast
(01:13:24) - Behavior Shift with an 'f'
(01:22:53) - Impact of Behavioural Science Applications
Links
Behavioral Grooves podcast: https://behavioralgrooves.com/
Their first ever Groove Jam with me! https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/historys-biggest-what-ifs/
Tim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-houlihan-b-e/
Kurt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtwnelson/
Hartmut Rosa's book Resonance - https://www.politybooks.com/bookdetail?book_slug=resonance-a-sociology-of-our-relationship-to-the-world--9781509519897
Google's Notebook LLM whcih produces an AI-generated 'podcast' summary of documents: https://notebooklm.google/
What does a pink puppet called Connie have to do with ethics? More than you might think. On this episode, I'm speaking with a lawyer, whose innovative approach to getting employees to engage in ethics, involved turning to something we all know from our childhood, a puppet. Episode Summary
That lawyer and my guest on this episode is Fraser Simpson, Associate General Counsel at the Wellcome Trust. He's on the show to me to tell me about a creative and award-winning approach to embedding ethics in organisations. Fraser and the team at Acteon Communications tackled the challenge of inspiring ethical decision-making in a world where written policies often fall short. Their solution? Connie, a hot pink puppet who represents a conscience, prompting employees to ask, "What would Connie do?"
Fraser shares how Connie was born from a need to engage employees in meaningful, human-centred conversations about ethics and compliance. We delve into why traditional approaches often fail, how behavioural science can transform organisational cultures, and why creativity is a powerful tool for behaviour change. Whether you’re in legal, compliance, or simply curious about innovation in professional settings, Fraser’s insights are both practical and inspiring.
Throughout our conversation, Fraser illustrates the power of storytelling, humour, and simplicity in sparking conversations that matter. Connie’s journey—from a sketch to a living, breathing character—offers lessons for anyone trying to make complex ideas relatable and impactful.
Guest Biography
Fraser is the Associate General Counsel at the Wellcome Trust, one of the world’s largest charitable foundations supporting science to tackle urgent health challenges. Fraser’s work that we discuss on the show focuses on developing a business integrity framework that empowers employees to make sound decisions in moments that matter.
With a background in law and a passion for creativity, Fraser has pioneered innovative approaches to compliance, including the development of Connie, a hot pink puppet that embodies ethics and inspires employees to think critically.
He describes himself as a dad of two first and a lawyer second, drawing on everyday challenges and creativity to influence his professional work.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary of Key Points
[00:00:02] Innovative Ethics Solution (14 Minutes)
Fraser introduces Connie, a bright pink puppet created to make ethics training engaging and memorable. By using behavioural science, Wellcome Trust demonstrates the power of moving from dry rulebooks to fostering value-driven decisions.
[00:14:05] Revolutionizing Ethics Engagement (8 Minutes)
The importance of using creativity to influence ethical decision-making, rather than over rigid rules, focusing on empowering employees with adaptable tools. Fraser explains how storytelling helps make ethics relatable and impactful.
[00:21:50] Bringing Connie to Life (13 Minutes)
Fraser shares the playful inspiration behind Connie’s creation, including how a Hetty vacuum cleaner sparked the idea and how he worked with Acteon, a behavioural science-driven agency. Connie balances humour and professionalism to spark meaningful conversations.
[00:34:32] Communicating Ethics Through Creativity (11 Minutes)
The Compliance team has considered how to deploy multi-sensory strategies, such as tactile tools and music, to make ethics training more engaging. These creative methods integrate ethics seamlessly into employees' daily routines.
[00:45:05] Launching Connie and Sustaining Engagement (6 Minutes)
Connie’s debut redefines compliance training by prioritising empowerment over box-ticking. Strategies like in-person meetings and digital tools ensure Connie stays relevant across the organisation.
[00:50:51] Encouraging Ethical Conversations (14 Minutes)
Fraser discusses innovative training approaches, such as regular ethical dilemmas and the "What Would Connie Do?" framework. These quick, consistent exercises develop decision-making skills and foster lasting habits.
[01:04:50] Balancing Compliance and Personal Accountability (12 Minutes)
The conversation highlights the importance of personal agency in decision-making. By promoting thoughtful judgment, the approach helps create a culture of accountability and better choices.
[01:16:23] Inclusive and Accessible Communication (12 Minutes)
Inclusivity is central to the approach adopted by Wellcome, including the deployment of a Braille Code of Conduct and other accessible formats. Fraser explains how Wellcome developed practical tools, like a mobile app, for use in critical moments.
[01:28:34] Connie’s Global Reach and Future Potential (10 Minutes)
Connie’s cross-cultural appeal in compliance training is explored, along with the vision of e-Connie—a virtual companion for ethical decision-making on a global scale.
Links
The Wellcome Trust — https://wellcome.org/
Acteon, the firm that helped to design and develop Connie — https://www.acteoncommunication.com/
Acteon’s case study of Connie — https://www.acteoncommunication.com/case-studies/meet-connie-your-conscience/
Sarah Abramson of Acteon pitching the idea of Connie at ECEC, the 2024 European Compliance & Ethics Conference — https://youtu.be/iCf1CklbysQ?si=z5-Vt3xcC2loZLB1&t=1641
Sarah’s appearance on this podcast — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sarah-abramson-on-speaking-to-the-human/
Can you distill a complex concept into a single sketch? Jono Hey can and on this episode, he joins me to talk about Sketchplanations —a project that explains the world, one sketch at a time.
Summary
I’ve been a long-time admirer of Jono’s work, which makes complex ideas accessible and engaging through simple, elegant sketches.
We discuss how he manages to turn abstract or intricate concepts into visual explanations that resonate with so many people, while maintaining accuracy and nuance.
Jono has a fascinating background in product design and UX, and he shares how his professional journey has influenced his approach to Sketchplanations.
We dive into his creative process, discussing the challenges of staying true to his vision while balancing the pressure for commercial success. Jono opens up about the origins of his project, the tools he uses, and the philosophy that keeps him motivated after more than 900 sketches .
We also explore the broader lessons that designers, educators, and anyone curious about the world can draw from Sketchplanations.
From navigating the challenge of accuracy to embracing creativity in visual form, Jono’s insights are valuable for anyone looking to communicate ideas more effectively or understand the world a little better.
Guest Biography
Jono Hey is the creator of Sketchplanations—a series of sketches that aim to explain the world, one concept at a time. He has a rich background in product design and UX, having worked with various startups, including Nutmeg and Zen Educate, where he led UX, design, and product development.
His passion project, Sketchplanations, has gained a wide audience due to its clear, engaging visuals that break down complex ideas into easily digestible formats. Beyond Sketchplanations, Jono has a PhD in product design and has worked across multiple industries, applying his expertise in design thinking and growth strategy.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the show and Jono Hey's work
[00:01:00] My admiration for Sketchplanations and Jono's mission
[00:02:00] Jono’s background in product design and UX
[00:04:00] What Sketchplanations are and how they began
[00:06:00] Jono’s creative challenge and learning exercise
[00:08:00] The eclectic nature of Sketchplanations topics
[00:11:00] The balance between commercial success and staying true to his interests
[00:13:00] How Jono chooses what to sketch and the role of curiosity
[00:16:00] The process behind creating each Sketchplanation
[00:19:00] Challenges of accuracy and oversimplification
[00:22:00] The role of sketches as jumping-off points for further exploration
[00:25:00] Staying motivated and balancing artistic integrity with audience feedback
[00:29:00] Jono's analogy of a good teacher as a DJ for learning
[00:33:00] The importance of timeless content and building a long-term project
[00:37:00] Using sketches to connect different topics and foster curiosity
[00:43:00] The constraints that shape Sketchplanations' format and identity
[00:52:00] Keeping the creative process grounded in simplicity and accessibility
[00:57:00] Jono’s decision to allow open use of Sketchplanations for non-commercial purposes
[01:01:00] The idea of building a community around freely accessible content
[01:04:00] The Sketchplanations podcast, co-hosted by Jono, Rob Bell and Tom Pellereau, and what it offers listeners
Links
Sketchplanations website: www.sketchplanations.com
Sketchpanation podcast: https://podcast.sketchplanations.com/
Jono’s book ‘Big Ideas, Little Pictures: Explaining the world one sketch at a time’: https://sketchplanations.com/big-ideas-little-pictures
The YouTube video Jono released to reflect what he’d learned from 900 Sketchplanations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8pWsaeRb8g
Sketchplanations referred to on the show
The Golden Circle: https://sketchplanations.com/the-golden-circle
and the associated Sketchplanations pod episode: https://podcast.sketchplanations.com/the-golden-circle/
Herd Immunity: https://sketchplanations.com/herd-immunity
The Olympic Flag: https://sketchplanations.com/the-olympic-flag
The Solstice: https://sketchplanations.com/solstice
The Moon Illusion: https://sketchplanations.com/the-moon-illusion
The Swiss Cheese Model: https://sketchplanations.com/the-swiss-cheese-model
Human Risk: https://sketchplanations.com/human-risk
and the associatedSketchpanations pod episode: https://podcast.sketchplanations.com/human-risk-with-christian-hunt/
What makes communicating effectively such a critical skill in today’s world?
On this episode, I dive into the fascinating world of communication with Amy Kean, a psychosociologist, educator, and the founder of Good Shout, a company redefining how we teach and communicate. Amy brings her unique blend of humour, honesty, and sharp insights to a conversation that will leave you thinking differently about how you connect with others.
We explore Amy’s journey from advertising to launching a learning and development company focused on experimentation and creativity. She explains why she believes education and workplace communication are fundamentally flawed and shares practical ways to fix them. From seven types of listening to giving constructive feedback, Amy’s approach is both revolutionary and refreshingly human.
We also tackle societal trends, such as the “worshipped entrepreneur” and the dangers of pathologising creativity. Amy’s perspective on embracing imperfection and finding joy in experimentation is as inspiring as it is thought-provoking. This episode will make you laugh, reflect, and rethink your own communication habits.
Guest Biography
Amy Kean is a psychosociologist, educator, and the founder of Good Shout, a learning and development company that challenges traditional approaches to training and communication.
Known for her sharp wit and unapologetic honesty, Amy combines humour with actionable insights to help people communicate more effectively.
A former advertising professional, she has a deep understanding of human behavior and uses her sociological expertise to teach skills like public speaking, feedback, and creative articulation.
Beyond her work with Good Shout, Amy is also an author and poet. Her poetry collection House of Weeds reimagines weeds as metaphorical human traits, showcasing her ability to find beauty and meaning in the overlooked.
Amy is a regular speaker at conferences, including TEDx, and her work continues to inspire individuals and organizations to embrace experimentation and imperfection.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary of Key Points
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and Amy Kean’s background.
[00:01:00] Amy’s journey from advertising to founding Good Shout.
[00:03:00] Why education and workplace communication systems are fundamentally flawed.
[00:06:00] The seven types of listening and their everyday impact.
[00:09:00] Good Shout’s unique, experimental approach to training and feedback.
[00:13:00] The societal consequences of poor communication and the rise of “people-pleasing.”
[00:19:00] Amy’s social media presence and her critiques of societal trends.
[00:23:00] Discussion on the “worshipped entrepreneur” and BrewDog’s controversies.
[00:35:00] The importance of feeling heard and Amy’s advocacy for public speaking in schools.
[00:45:00] Exploring creativity through Amy’s poetry and the metaphor of weeds.
[00:51:00] The dangers of pathologising daydreaming and the value of imagination.
[00:57:00] Amy’s TEDx talk on the sociology of normality and the concept of weirdness.
Relevant Links
Amy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amycharlottekean
Amy on Twitter/X: https://x.com/keano81
The Good Shout: https://goodshoutcommunity.com/
Creative Schools, the book by Ken Robinson (https://www.sirkenrobinson.com/creative-schools-the-grassroots-revolution-thats-transforming-education/)
The one-sentence book called Herscht 07769: https://www.ndbooks.com/book/herscht-07769/]
Amy’s book of poetry called House of Weeds: https://www.flyonthewallpress.co.uk/post/introducing-house-of-weeds-by-amy-kean-and-jack-wallington
Jack Wallington’s Book https://www.laurenceking.com/products/wild-about-weeds
BrewDog and the Qatar World Cup controversy: https://www.cityam.com/qatar-world-cup-brewdog-will-give-profits-to-human-rights-groups-but-will-show-tournament/
Alastair Green’s parody of Brewdog: https://youtu.be/-wP3BjTdogY?si=j_ejfj1EiaRZJWCi
Philosopher Alain de Botton’s philosophy and writings: Website
Amy’s talk at TEDx Shoreditch, ‘Gravitas is a Work of Fiction’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKistHI6AMA
How does one become a political cartoonist? And what lessons can we learn from their craft?
Episode Summary
In this episode, I sit down with legendary political cartoonist Steve Bell to explore the artistry and challenges behind his provocative work.
From his early struggles as a teacher to his meteoric rise as a satirical voice at The Guardian, Steve shares the experiences that shaped his unique style.
We delve into his creative process, the evolution of his iconic characters, and his reflections on a career that’s spanned over four decades.
Steve doesn’t hold back as he recounts his battles to maintain creative independence in an ever-changing media landscape.
Whether it’s navigating editorial constraints, mastering the balance between humour and sharp commentary, or sketching under the pressure of daily deadlines, Steve offers an honest and inspiring perspective on his craft.
Along the way, he shares fascinating anecdotes, like the evolution of David Cameron as a cartoon character and the artistic freedom he carved out for himself at The Guardian and how ultimately using that freedom led to him leaving the paper.
This conversation isn’t just for fans of Steve’s work but for anyone interested in creativity, resilience, and the power of satire to provoke and inspire. Join us as we explore the world of political cartooning through the eyes of one of its most iconic practitioners.
⚠️ Warning: this episode contains adult language and content, so listener discretion is advised.
Steve Bell Biography
Steve Bell is one of the most influential UK political cartoonists of our time, known for his incisive satire and striking illustrations. A graduate of Leeds College of Art, Steve initially trained as a teacher before realizing his passion for cartooning.
His first major break came with Time Out magazine, where his “Maggie’s Farm” strip skewered the Thatcher era. In 1981, he joined The Guardian, where his daily cartoons became a staple for readers and a thorn in the side of the powerful.
Over his illustrious career, Steve developed a reputation for blending biting political commentary with imaginative visuals, often pushing the boundaries of satire.
His work has appeared in numerous publications, and he remains a vocal advocate for creative freedom in an increasingly restrictive media environment.
AI-Generated Timestamped Key Points
[00:00:00] Introduction to Steve Bell and the origins of his artistic journey
[00:01:13] Steve’s early life, love for drawing, and transition from teaching to cartooning
[00:08:06] Struggles and lessons learned from teaching in Birmingham
[00:11:00] Early career milestones, including work with Time Out and The Guardian
[00:25:02] The evolution of "Maggie’s Farm" and creating caricatures of Margaret Thatcher
[00:34:15] Steve’s thoughts on the creative process and meeting deadlines
[00:52:39] How Steve conceptualises characters, like David Cameron as a condom
[00:57:18] Reflections on editorial constraints and creative independence
[01:10:12] Steve’s critiques of the modern media landscape and its treatment of political satire
[01:20:00] The enduring relevance of political cartoons in today’s world
Links
Topics we discuss on the show:
Margaret Thatcher: Former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and a key figure in British politics during the 1980s, known for her conservative policies.
👉 Margaret Thatcher - Wikipedia
Thatcherism: The political ideology and economic policies associated with Margaret Thatcher, often satirized by Steve Bell.
👉 Thatcherism - Wikipedia
David Cameron: Former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, often depicted by Steve Bell as a cartoon caricature, including as a condom.
👉 David Cameron - Wikipedia
The Guardian: A British newspaper known for its progressive views and a platform for Steve Bell’s political cartoons for over 40 years.
👉 The Guardian - Wikipedia
Maggie’s Farm: A political comic strip by Steve Bell, published in Time Out, satirizing Margaret Thatcher and her government.
👉 Maggie’s Farm (Bob Dylan song) - Wikipedia (inspiration for the name)
The Red Star Parcel Service: A British rail-based parcel delivery service used by Steve Bell to send his cartoons to The Guardian during the pre-digital era.
👉 Red Star Parcels - Wikipedia
Social Democratic Party (SDP): A British political party formed in 1981 by former Labour MPs; its formation split the Labour vote during Margaret Thatcher’s tenure.
👉 Social Democratic Party (UK) - Wikipedia
Beano: A British children’s comic, often referenced by Steve Bell as an early influence on his cartooning style. 👉 Beano - Wikipedia
Jean-Luc Godard: An influential French filmmaker, admired by Steve Bell during his student years for his innovative cinematic style.
👉 Jean-Luc Godard - Wikipedia
New Musical Express (NME): A British music journalism publication where Steve Bell submitted work during his early career.
👉 NME - Wikipedia
Horse & Hound: A British weekly equestrian magazine established in 1884, covering horse sports such as eventing, dressage, show jumping, hunting, and racing, alongside advice on horse care and training. It gained pop culture recognition for its mention in the movie Notting Hill.
👉 Horse & Hound - Wikipedia
Time Out: A magazine featuring cultural events and news, where Steve Bell’s work first gained major recognition.
👉 Time Out (magazine) - Wikipedia
Liberty Leading the People: A painting by Eugène Delacroix frequently referenced by Steve Bell in his political cartoons.
👉 Liberty Leading the People - Wikipedia
Cartoons To see Steve’s archive visit his website: www.belltoons.co.uk
🖌️ Maggie’s Farm: https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/others/Maggie-s-Farm
🖌️ Thatcher, Heseltine & Howe: https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/5/24/1306251583026/Thatcher-Heseltine--Howe--010.jpg?width=1010&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=610503e82cf033474cd6a6754281bf18
🖌️ David Cameron as a condom on a poster: https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/CLASSIC-CARTOONS/2951-12-1-10_CAMERONDOM
🖌️ David Cameron leaving office: https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/leaders/2016/4017-130716_CAMREMOVAL
🖌️ Donald Trump:
https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/leaders/2020/4564-051120_SHITEXPLOSION
How do tiny changes in our surroundings create big impacts on our daily lives? And what does that have to do with house flies?
Episode Summary
In this episode, I’m thrilled to welcome Dr. Eva Van Den Broek and Tim Den Heijer to discuss their new book, The Housefly Effect, which explores the hidden ways behavioral science influences our daily decisions.
We dive into fascinating examples of nudges, from a simple housefly sticker in a urinal to placebo buttons at pedestrian crossings. They reveal how clever behavioural tricks are everywhere, steering our actions without us even realizing it.
Eva and Tim share insights from their diverse backgrounds — Eva, a behavioural economist working on policy and research, and Tim, an advertising strategist who brings these ideas to life through real-world campaigns.
Together, they’ve written a book that not only explains these influences but invites readers to recognize and leverage them in their own lives. Our conversation also touches on the ethical aspects of behavioural science and why it’s so important to think critically about when and how these techniques are used.
From funny to thought-provoking, Tim and Eva bring a fresh perspective on behavioural science that’s both entertaining and deeply insightful.
Guest Biographies
Dr. Eva Van Den Broek is a behavioural economist and the founder of Behavioral Insights Netherlands. She specializes in using behavioural science to improve public policy and has extensive experience working with government agencies and ministries. Eva’s work spans a variety of real-world applications, from interventions in education to campaigns promoting library use among low-literacy adults. She is also a lecturer and public speaker, known for making complex behavioral insights accessible and practical.
Tim Den Heijer is a creative strategist, copywriter, and founder of Brain Creatives, an agency that combines advertising and behavioural science. With over 20 years in advertising, Tim has helped shape campaigns for some of the world’s biggest brands.
His work focuses on finding creative ways to connect behavioural insights with marketing goals. Tim’s approach blends curiosity with pragmatism, drawing on his love-hate relationship with advertising to question conventional wisdom and explore new ideas in behavioural influence.
AI Generated Timestamped Summary of Key Points
[00:00:00] Introduction to the concept of behavioural influences in daily decisions.
[00:00:40] Examples of nudges used by advertisers and governments.
[00:01:01] Introduction of guests Dr. Eva Van Den Broek and Tim Den Heijer.
[00:01:20] Eva and Tim's professional backgrounds and collaboration on The Housefly Effect.
[00:02:00] Overview of their book’s approach to behavioural science through engaging stories.
[00:02:23] Discussion on cognitive diversity and collaboration dynamics.
[00:03:05] Eva’s early career shift from AI to practical behavioural science.
[00:04:00] Tim’s journey from linguistics to advertising and the influence of behavioural science.
[00:05:00] Origins of the collaboration between Eva and Tim, emphasizing cognitive diversity.
[00:06:00] Key insights from their book on using simple nudges effectively.
[00:09:10] The story behind the “housefly effect” in urinals as a behavioural nudge.
[00:13:00] How nudges can be effective even without precise measurements.
[00:17:00] Discussing the organization of topics in The Housefly Effect and their selection process.
[00:20:00] Examples of “dumb” ideas that actually work in behavioural science.
[00:22:00] Placebo buttons and how they influence behaviour.
[00:25:00] Differences between public policy and advertising approaches to behaviour change.
[00:30:00] Insights on behavioural science’s application across different cultures.
[00:34:00] Dutch cultural openness to experimentation in public policy.
[00:39:00] Discussion of translating The Housefly Effect for an international audience.
[00:42:00] The “Washboard” example illustrates people’s willingness to pay for convenience.
[00:45:20] The “behavioral safari” concept and the challenges of switching off the behavioural lens.
[00:48:32] Ethical considerations in behavioural influence and the limits of persuasive tactics.
Relevant Links
Eva (https://www.linkedin.com/in/evdbroek/) and Behavioural Insights Netherlands (https://www.behaviouralinsights.nl/)
Tim (https://www.linkedin.com/in/timdenheijer/) and B.R.A.I.N. Creatives (https://braincreatives.nl/
The HouseFly Effect: https://bedfordsquarepublishers.co.uk/book/the-housefly-effect/
The Dutch original: https://bromvliegeffect.nl/
What if embracing randomness could unlock better decision-making in your work?
In this episode, I welcome back Matt Ballantine, a returning guest known for his insightful and playful take on work and life. This time, Matt dives into the concept of randomness and how it can be a strategic tool in navigating complex problems that defy traditional solutions.
From engaging discussions on how randomness applies to decision-making to his creative uses of tarot-like card decks for ideation, Matt demonstrates that randomness is not just chaos—it’s a pathway to innovation.
He also shares how randomness has played a role in his projects, like the 100 Coffees initiative, which connected him with people in unexpected ways and reinforced the idea that unstructured, agenda-free time can lead to powerful outcomes.
In our discussion, we explore practical applications of randomness in business settings, why organizations may resist these approaches, and how embracing randomness could unlock creative potential and solve cloud-like challenges.
To see the cards that Matt and I talked about: https://photos.app.goo.gl/8Sf6zrsKoL74VxjZ6
Guest Biography
Matt Ballantine describes himself as a curious explorer of ideas with a background in technology, organizational culture, and creative problem-solving. Currently an account manager at Equal Experts, Matt’s work spans various roles that emphasize unconventional approaches to strategy and innovation.
He is known for his thought-provoking projects, like the 100 Coffees initiative, which challenged norms of structured networking and led to surprising insights. In addition, Matt has been exploring the intersection of randomness and decision-making, using creative tools such as card decks inspired by tarot to facilitate out-of-the-box thinking.
Find Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattballantine/
Follow him on Twitter/X: https://x.com/ballantine70
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] - Opening & Introduction
Christian welcomes back Matt Ballantine to discuss randomness, highlighting Matt's previous appearance and his exploration of randomness in work and life.
* Matt shares how randomness can be a strategic advantage when addressing complex, unpredictable problems.
[00:02:00] - 100 Coffees Experiment Recap
* Matt recounts his "100 Coffees" project from 2023, which involved meeting 138 people for unstructured, hour-long conversations to spark serendipitous insights.
* He notes the challenge many people face in allocating unplanned conversation time due to hyper-optimized schedules.
[00:04:12] - Organizational Implications
* Matt reflects on how the absence of informal interactions in modern work setups, like back-to-back virtual meetings, has stripped valuable opportunities for unstructured exchanges.
[00:07:13] - Current Projects & Randomness
* Matt discusses his current work as an account manager at Equal Experts, which operates without traditional hierarchical structures.
* He introduces his project, the "Business Meerkat" deck, a tool for exploring business problems using randomness, and his ongoing research and writing on the theme of randomness.
[00:08:50] - The Clock and Cloud Analogy
* Drawing from Karl Popper, Matt contrasts "clock-like" (predictable, analyzable) and "cloud-like" (complex, unpredictable) problems. He suggests randomness as a strategy for navigating cloud-like problems.
[00:10:32] - Definitions of Randomness
* Matt distinguishes between mathematical randomness (equal probability outcomes, like dice rolls) and perceived randomness (unforeseen events).
[00:15:00] - Human Behavioral Dynamics & Complexity
* Matt and Christian discuss how perfect information in human systems, like traffic, can create new problems due to human reactions, illustrating the complexity of cloud-like problems.
[00:17:36] - The Spectrum of Control
* Organizations often lean towards deterministic approaches, believing in total control. However, randomness introduces new approaches to handle unpredictable outcomes.
[00:19:00] - Biological Analogy
* T-cells in the immune system exemplify natural, evolved randomness through their adaptive protein shuffling. Netflix's A/B testing process is cited as a parallel in using randomness strategically.
[00:22:00] - Risk and Decision-Making
* Christian and Matt discuss how decision-making involves inherent risk and unintended consequences. Randomness can offer fresh perspectives when facing uncertain, multi-faceted decisions.
[00:24:26] - Business Applications
* Matt explains how his tarot-inspired "Business Meerkat" cards help teams analyze problems by introducing random prompts, fostering unexpected insights and collaborative thinking.
[00:31:50] - Group Dynamics and Random Input
* Random input encourages active participation and mitigates power dynamics in meetings, allowing genuine, spontaneous collaboration.
[00:37:26] - Comfort with Uncertainty
* Matt acknowledges that adopting randomness can be intimidating but argues that it's crucial for those tackling complex, cloud-like problems.
[00:45:16] - External Thinking Tools
* Matt highlights how humans use external tools (e.g., notebooks, cards) to process and enhance thinking, making randomness a valuable external input for creative processes.
[00:48:00] - Childlike Exploration
* Christian reflects on how educational and workplace norms stifle the playful, exploratory thinking that randomness can reinvigorate.
Links
Matt's previous appearance on the show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/matt-ballantine-on-the-human-side-of-technology/
Matt's website: https://mmitii.mattballantine.com/
The book website: randomthebook.com
The three apps Matt mentions:
https://ee-hacking-apophenia-random-photos.vercel.app/
https://ee-hacking-apophenia-creativator.vercel.app/
https://ee-hacking-apophenia-business-meerkat.vercel.app/
Cardshop: wb40podcast.com/shop
What would you do if someone you trusted turned out to be living a double life?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I speak with Anna Rowe, a brave and resilient advocate for victims of romance fraud. Anna shares her deeply personal story of being deceived by someone who led a double life, manipulating her emotions and trust for over a year. Her journey from victim to activist is one of courage and determination to bring awareness to the emotional trauma caused by these scams.
During our conversation, Anna explains the stages of manipulation she experienced, from grooming to love bombing to the devastating moment when she discovered the truth. We also discuss the broader issue of romance fraud, the legal challenges victims face, and why the law needs to change to protect people from emotional predators.
You'll gain insight into how these scams unfold, the lasting emotional impact they have on victims, and the importance of raising awareness to stop others from falling into the same traps. Anna’s story serves as both a warning and a call to action for change.
Guest Biography
Anna describes herself as a teacher turned advocate for victims of romance fraud after falling victim to an elaborate emotional scam.
In 2015, Anna met a man online who deceived her for over a year, using a fake identity and manipulating her emotions through intense grooming and love-bombing tactics. After discovering the truth, she turned her experience into a campaign to raise awareness of romance fraud and help others avoid similar situations.
Anna is the founder of "Catch the Catfish," an organization that supports victims of emotional fraud and advocates for changes in legislation to address non-financial romance scams. She is also a co-founder of "LoveSaid," an umbrella organization that tackles all forms of romance fraud, from emotional to financial exploitation.
Through her website, public speaking, and media appearances, Anna continues to fight for the recognition of romance fraud as a serious crime that leaves lasting emotional scars.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] – Introduction
[00:00:24] – Anna’s Background: Anna begins by sharing a brief overview of her story. She explains that in August 2015, she started using dating apps for the second time after having had a successful two-and-a-half-year relationship with someone she met online. She talks about how being a single mom with limited time and resources led her to rely on dating apps.
[00:01:35] – Anna's Personality and Approach to Relationships: Anna discusses her attachment style, describing herself as someone who gets attached to people quickly—both in romantic and non-romantic contexts—and becomes fiercely loyal. She shares that although she rarely feels romantic connections when she does, she "falls hard and fast."
[00:02:00] – The Start of the Deception: Anna recounts how she was drawn to a particular dating profile not because of the man’s picture but because of his words. His profile described him as humble, grounded, and someone who hated poor communication and mind games, which made Anna feel like he had been hurt before and wouldn’t hurt her. She matched with him and started exchanging messages the next morning.
[00:03:00] – The Relationship Begins: Anna describes how their online communication turned into an intense connection over the span of three months, mirroring the way her previous successful online relationship had started. She shares that even before they met in person, she expressed to him that she was scared by how close she already felt to him, signalling the emotional intensity early on.
[00:04:00] – The Emotional Rollercoaster Begins: Anna reflects on the emotional intensity of the relationship after meeting in person, describing it as "incredibly intense." She shares that the connection felt like something out of a soulmate story but that she now recognizes it as part of the manipulation.
[00:07:08] – The Beginning of Instincts: Anna talks about the early stages of her relationship, explaining how she started to feel something was off after her partner unexpectedly pulled away. She shares how her gut instinct kicked in, even though she initially tried to ignore it. This part highlights the importance of trusting your intuition when something feels wrong, especially in online relationships.
[00:25:00] – The Moment of Discovery: Anna recalls the pivotal moment when she inadvertently matched with her partner on a dating app, realizing he was still active and using the same scripted lines as before. She describes the shock of finding out that her partner had not only lied to her but was actively deceiving others. T
[00:37:00] – The Investigator Within: Using her research skills, Anna reveals how she tracked her partner’s location and pieced together his real identity. She explains the various techniques she used, including distance tracking and LinkedIn searches, to find out where he worked and his real name.
[00:54:24] – The Legal System’s Failure: Anna discusses her long battle with the legal system, detailing how the police initially dismissed her case despite clear evidence of multiple victims. She talks about the difficulty in getting authorities to recognize the severity of these scams and the emotional toll they take on victims.
[01:05:00] – The Emotional Toll and Advocacy for Change: Anna reflects on the emotional damage caused by her experience, describing the “triple trauma” victims endure: the relationship ending, discovering the deception, and losing trust in oneself. She also talks about her campaign for legal reform, calling for better protection for victims and stricter regulations on online dating platforms.
Episode Links
Love Said - https://www.lovesaid.org/
Catch the Catfish website - https://catchthecatfish.com/
How can road trips and curiosity shape our perspectives on life?
In this episode, I speak with Dr Holly Bell, a former professor, author, and spontaneous traveller.
Holly’s diverse background, which includes teaching economics, writing thrillers, and even working in corporate management at a Fortune 100 company, is rooted in her insatiable curiosity and love of reinvention.
Together, we discuss her fascinating career journey and how she continuously evolves by following her passions and embracing new experiences.
Holly shares her stories of spontaneous road trips, from jump-seating on FedEx planes to discovering hidden parts of Alaska. We explore the joy she finds in taking the road less travelled and how her adventures have shaped her outlook on life. She also dives into the quirks of U.S. tipping culture and other fascinating topics, giving us a unique perspective on behavioural economics and societal norms.
Whether you’re curious about career reinvention, travel, or the behavioural side of everyday decisions, this episode offers a fresh take on living with passion, curiosity, and a bit of spontaneity. Tune in to discover how embracing life’s uncertainties can lead to incredible adventures.
Guest Biography:
Holly is a retired professor of economics and business, known for her unconventional career journey and adventurous spirit. A former corporate executive with a Fortune 100 company, Holly has also been a novelist, voice actor, and radio copywriter. Her love for spontaneous travel and curiosity about the world has taken her to all corners of the U.S., including 13 years living in Alaska. In addition to her academic and business accomplishments, Holly is also passionate about storytelling and currently spends her time acting, writing, and creating unique experiences through her travels.
Holly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hollybell/
Holly on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/HollyBell8
AI-Generated TimeStamp Summary
[00:00:00] Christian introduces Dr. Holly Bell and her diverse background
[00:02:00] Holly shares her early life in Wisconsin and her journey from a blue-collar family to college at 29 to working in radio, advertising, and voiceover projects
[00:04:00] Holly’s career reinvention: from professor to voice actor and writer in Florida
[00:05:30] Holly talks about her jump-seat travels on FedEx planes and spontaneous adventures
[00:07:18] The freedom of spontaneous travel and its impact on Holly's life
[00:08:21] Holly’s road trips in Alaska and the culture of curiosity behind them.[00:10:09] Exploration and divergent road trips with her husband
[00:12:13] Holly’s passion for human behaviour and its influence on her academic and professional life
[00:15:00] Christian and Holly discuss how education separates disciplines like geography and history
[00:17:00] The tipping culture in the U.S., Holly’s frustrations, and how it distorts incentives
[00:29:05] Holly’s brief stint in politics and her work on local governance
[00:33:00] Holly’s experience in her local community with frictional changes, like replacing gate access cards
[00:36:39] How large social changes, like smoking bans, face resistance but later become normalized
[00:39:16] Holly’s experience managing people and getting them to own decisions
[00:41:00] Holly's factory tours and her fascination with understanding how things work
[00:47:00] The benefits of curiosity and how it can lead to unexpected discoveries
[00:50:30] Final thoughts on how curiosity and taking the road less travelled shape both Holly's and Christian’s lives
What role does creativity play in navigating an unpredictable world?
On this episode, I sit down with Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley, both members of the Stanford d.school faculty. Together, they’ve co-authored Assembling Tomorrow, a fascinating exploration of how design influences the future, especially amidst the rapid rise of emerging technologies like AI and synthetic biology. We discuss how design shapes the environments we live and work in and why getting it right can help people make better, safer, and more ethical choices.
Our conversation dives into some intriguing concepts like “mischievous materials” and the role that design fiction plays in imagining the future. Carissa and Scott share their insights into the power of speculative fiction, demonstrating how it can help us predict and adapt to the future consequences of today’s decisions. We also discuss how design often starts as fiction and evolves into real-world innovations and how emotions and make-believe play crucial roles in the creative process.
Lastly, we discuss the ethical implications of design and the importance of considering all possible outcomes—positive and negative—when creating new tools or systems. The discussion is both a hopeful and realistic look at how designers, and indeed all of us, can better navigate an increasingly unpredictable world.
Biography of the Guests:
Carissa Carter is a designer, geoscientist, and the academic director at the Stanford d.school. She teaches design courses focused on emerging technologies, climate change, and data visualization, helping students apply design thinking to complex, real-world challenges. Carissa is passionate about exploring how design can foster creativity, ethical decision-making, and positive societal impact.
Scott Doorley is the creative director at the Stanford d.school, where he oversees a wide array of projects, including books, workspaces, digital products, and initiatives aimed at shaping the future of learning and design. A designer and writer, Scott has a deep interest in how design can be used as a tool for understanding and influencing human behaviour, particularly in times of rapid technological and societal change.
Together, Carissa and Scott have co-authored Assembling Tomorrow, a book that delves into how emerging technologies influence human behaviour, decision-making, and ethics. They use the power of storytelling and speculative fiction to imagine future scenarios and provoke thought on how design can guide us through an increasingly complex world.
Links
Carissa's profile - https://dschool.stanford.edu/team-directory/carissa-l-carter
Scott's profile - https://dschool.stanford.edu/team-directory/scott-doorley
The Stanford d School - https://dschool.stanford.edu/
Assembling Tomorrow and other d School books - https://dschool.stanford.edu/books
AI-Generated Timestamp Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction and welcome
[00:00:33] How design shapes our environments and influences decision-making
[00:01:00] Introduction to Stanford d.school and the work of Carissa and Scott
[00:01:41] Overview of Assembling Tomorrow and its exploration of emerging tech
[00:02:20] Ethical implications of design and the influence of emerging technologies
[00:03:16] Carissa and Scott introduce themselves and their work
[00:04:36] The role of ambiguity in design and navigating uncertainty
[00:06:24] Emotions and make-believe in the design process
[00:08:19] Importance of seeing the full impact of design decisions
[00:10:07] The dynamic of young versus experienced creators in technology
[00:15:35] Speculative fiction as a tool for imagining future design consequences
[00:17:23] The process behind creating Assembling Tomorrow
[00:22:04] Strategies for solving complex problems in an unpredictable world
[00:23:14] Embracing awkwardness and aiming for imperfection in design
[00:26:35] Need to adapt to more organic, unpredictable processes in design
[00:33:04] Developing an ethical mindset within design education
[00:36:00] Generational shift in attitudes towards ethical design
[00:45:11] Visuals and illustrations as tools for engaging readers in design concepts
How can we be better at influencing others? On this episode, I explore the world of influence with behavioural scientist Steve Martin.
Steve has made a career out of studying the art and science of persuasion, and in this conversation, we dive deep into his latest book Influence at Work.
Together, we unpack how influence is a key part of all aspects of life, including compliance.
We discuss why 'influence' often gets a bad rap as manipulative, and how it’s misunderstood as a 'dark art.' We discuss the nuances of influence: when it’s most effective, how to wield it ethically, and why sometimes the simplest approaches to influencing can be best.
Steve explains how influence can be harnessed for positive change and shares some surprising insights from his decades of research.
Hear how influence plays a pivotal role in compliance, organizational success, and personal interactions, plus how behavioral science can offer practical tools to help you be a better influencer—and resist being influenced yourself.
We also explore Steve’s personal reflections on his career in behavioural science, how the discipline has evolved and what it needs to do to stay relevant.
Whether you’re trying to influence colleagues, customers, or just navigate daily life, this episode is packed with actionable advice that everyone can use.
Guest Biography
Steve Martin is CEO of Influence at Work and Faculty Director at Columbia Business School.
He is the co-author of Messengers, Who We Listen to, Who We Don’t and Why, and the Royal Society nominated international bestseller ‘Yes! 60 Secrets from the Science of Persuasion’.
Steve’s books have sold over 1.5 million copies and been translated into 27 languages.
His work applying behavioural science to business and public policy has featured in the National and International press including BBC TV & Radio, The Times, New York Times, Harvard Business Review and Time magazine.
He penned the original, now world-famous set of Tax Letters that generated millions in extra revenue for the UK Government and his popular business columns are read by over 2.5 million people every month.
Steve is Faculty Director of Behavioural Science at Columbia University’s Graduate Business School NY, guest lectures at Harvard, London School of Economics and London Business School, and is a founding member and Chair of the Global Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists (GAABS).
AI Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and topic of influence in compliance and life
[00:00:31] Why influence is a key skill for thriving in the modern world
[00:00:52] Introduction of Steve Martin and his background in behavioral science
[00:01:32] Steve shares how influence can be misunderstood as a dark art
[00:03:00] Steve talks about his new book Influence at Work and why he’ll never write a book alone again
[00:05:48] Discussion on why influence is central to human interactions and business
[00:08:00] The connection between behavioral science and influence
[00:09:30] How behavioral science strategies are designed to influence outcomes
[00:12:00] The long history of influence in society and its early roots
[00:16:00] Steve explains why quick hacks and shortcuts rarely lead to true influence
[00:19:00] The importance of understanding context when applying influence strategies
[00:21:00] Discussion on how to balance data, emotion, and economic factors in influence
[00:23:00] The growing focus on helping people resist negative influence strategies
[00:27:00] How influence can be long-lasting and not just a quick fix
[00:31:00] Summary of Steve’s “equation for influence”
[00:35:00] The role of evidence, economic consideration, and emotion in influence
[00:39:00] Reflections on the differences between being “right” and being “effective”
[00:44:00] Steve reflects on his own career and how influence has shaped his work
Relevant Links
Influence at Work, the book - https://influenceatwork.co.uk/our-books/
Take the Influence at Work quiz - https://influenceatwork.emhdevelopment.com/the_economist/?
Influence at Work, the company - https://www.influenceatwork.com/
The previous episode of this show on which Steve and his co-author Joe Marks explored their book Messengers - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/steve-martin-joe-marks/
How can watching Disney movies, help create more inclusive environments? The answer is in the word Enchantment.
On this episode, I'm speaking to Chloé Valdary, the founder of an organisation called The Theory of Enchantment, to explore her unique approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion (DE&I) training. If you're someone for whom DE&I conjures up negative thoughts, then you're going to want to hear this. Because Chloé's approach is nothing like traditional DE&I.
This episode is the third in a mini-series looking at the subject — you'll find links to the other episodes below.
In a fascinating discussion, Chloé shares how her program blends philosophy, psychology, and culture to create environments of belonging and compassion. Together, we examine why many traditional DEI programs fall short and how her methodology seeks to address deeper human dynamics in workplaces.
We discuss the power of enchantment—a term Chloé uses to describe the balance between light and shadow in every individual—and how recognizing this balance allows us to foster more meaningful connections.
With references to popular culture, including Disney films like Beauty and the Beast, Chloé offers a compelling case for why empathy and self-reflection are essential tools in any organization’s toolkit.
You'll hear how The Theory of Enchantment can be used to address conflict, enhance collaboration, and ultimately create more innovative and inclusive spaces. Whether you’re a leader, manager, or simply curious about human behavior, this conversation offers practical insights that go beyond the traditional DEI framework.
Guest Biography
Chloé Valdary is the founder of Theory of Enchantment, an innovative approach to diversity, equity, and inclusion that blends philosophy, psychology, and popular culture to help organizations foster belonging.
Since its founding in 2018, Theory of Enchantment has been deployed in various organizations to build trust, compassion, and connection among employees.With a background in international studies and a concentration in conflict and diplomacy, Chloé has a unique perspective on building inclusive environments.
She draws on sources ranging from Carl Jung to Disney films to guide her transformative work. Chloé is also a writer and cultural critic, exploring how love and compassion can serve as the foundation for solving societal challenges.
Timestamped AI-generated Summary of Key Points
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and overview of the mini-series on diversity and inclusion.
[00:01:00] Background on previous episodes and why traditional DEI approaches need rethinking.
[00:02:00] Introduction of Chloé Valdary and the Theory of Enchantment.
[00:03:00] What "enchantment" means in the context of DEI training.
[00:04:00] Exploring the balance between light and shadow in human behavior.
[00:06:00] How popular culture, like Disney films, reflects deeper human truths.
[00:09:00] Using self-reflection to build trust and navigate conflict in the workplace.
[00:11:00] How diversity leads to innovation through self-understanding.
[00:15:00] The need to address insecurities and biases to build inclusive teams.
[00:18:00] Criticizing to uplift and empower, not to tear down.
[00:22:00] How recognizing insecurities can resolve conflict and build trust.
[00:25:00] The importance of creating space for emotional vulnerability at work.
[00:30:00] Theory of Enchantment’s practical application in organizations.
[00:33:00] Using design thinking to develop tailored DEI solutions.
[00:36:00] The three core principles of Theory of Enchantment. [00:42:00] Historical examples of reconciliation and conflict resolution.
[00:49:00] Chloé’s background and inspiration for the Theory of Enchantment.
[01:03:00] Closing thoughts and how to learn more about Chloé’s work.
Relevant Links:
The Theory of Enchantment - https://www.theoryofenchantment.com/
The Atlantic article 'Can Chloé Valdary sell skecptics on DEI?' - https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/can-chloe-valdary-sell-skeptics-dei/617875/
The previous episodes of the mini-series:
Chloé Valdary, Morgan Hamel & Peter Stein on De-Polarized Diversity, Equity & Inclusion - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/chloevaldary-morganhamel-peterstein-on-diversity-equity-inclusion/
Morgan Hamel on Moral Polarization - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/morgan-hamel-on-moral-polarization/
How does moral polarization challenge even the most well-intentioned leaders?
In this episode, I speak with Morgan Hamel, who talks frankly about her journey from working in business ethics to launching her own ethical fashion business.
In our conversation, Morgan reflects on the complex dynamics of running a business that sought to balance purpose and profit and how that vision was tested by the demands of a polarized world.
Morgan’s story offers a candid look at the pressures business leaders face today—particularly around ethical decision-making and navigating stakeholder expectations. She shares her personal experiences of how social media, moral polarization, and the expectations of "doing good" can create enormous challenges for business owners who want to stay true to their values while also being commercially successful.
We explore the notion of moral polarization and how leaders can prepare themselves to handle the reputational and psychological pressure that comes with balancing ethics and business in today’s climate.
Morgan Hamel
Morgan describes herself as an entrepreneur and ethics expert who has dedicated her career to exploring the intersection of business and ethics. She began her journey in business ethics after studying applied ethics at Utrecht University. She later spent 11 years working in the ethics office of a large Canadian corporation, where she helped develop integrity programs and worked on aligning corporate actions with ethical codes.
After leaving corporate life, Morgan founded her own ethical fashion business, "The Garment," which sought to change the face of fashion by connecting women with responsibly made clothes. However, her business came under immense pressure during the moral and social upheaval following the death of George Floyd.
Morgan ultimately made the difficult decision to close the business, leading her to reflect on the deeper issues of moral polarization that businesses face today. Today, she works with organizations, boards, and executives to help them navigate the complexities of ethical leadership in a polarized world.
AI-generated timestamp summary
[00:00:00] - Introduction to the mini-series on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion.
[00:01:12] - Morgan's background in business ethics and her decision to start an ethical fashion business.
[00:02:33] - Morgan reflects on her business's failure due to the competing demands of ethics and commercial success.
[00:04:00] - The pressures of leading ethically in a polarized world, particularly on social media.
[00:07:10] - The dangers of moral polarization in business decision-making.
[00:10:20] - How post-2012 pressures (social media influence) have changed the ethical landscape for businesses.
[00:18:00] - Lessons from Morgan’s decision to close her business despite its commercial success.
[00:30:00] - A discussion on aligning business actions with ethical values and balancing profit with purpose.
[00:46:55] - Morgan’s reflections on handling reputational risk and psychological pressure.
[01:00:40] - The rise of post-2012 ethical risks and how leaders can prepare themselves.
[01:10:00] - Morgan’s current work on moral polarization and her advice for business leaders today.
Links
To find out more about Morgan, visit her website: https://www.morganhamel.com/
Morgan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/morgan-hamel-365537210/
The previous episode of this mini-series on DI&E: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/chloevaldary-morganhamel-peterstein-on-diversity-equity-inclusion/
The essay she wrote with Keith Darcy on Stakeholder Activism: https://www.morganhamel.com/stakeholder-activism
Morgan's TED Talk: https://tedxyyc.ca/talk/morgan-hamel/
What do you think of when you hear the words Diversity, Equity & Inclusion (DE&I)? If it's something negative, then this is the episode for you; because I'm exploring how we can transform DE&I from something theoretical but impractical to something that can really work and have a positive impact for everyone. In other words, how we can de-polarize it?
On this milestone 300th episode of the Human Risk podcast, I’m joined by three remarkable guests—Chloé Valdary, Morgan Hamel, and Peter Stein—who are working together to revolutionize how organizations approach DE&I.
Morgan, a former fashion ethicist, shares her story of navigating the challenges of DE&I while running her own business and how it led her to Chloé and Peter's groundbreaking work at The Theory of Enchantment.
Throughout the episode, we explore how their unique approach moves away from traditional and often divisive methods of addressing DE&I. Instead, they advocate for a humanistic approach that fosters genuine connection and respect, even across seemingly insurmountable divides.
If you’ve ever felt disillusioned by standard DE&I strategies, this conversation will open your eyes to a new way of thinking.
You’ll also hear about the challenges of implementing meaningful DE&I practices in today’s polarized world, with real-world examples of companies that have struggled — and sometimes failed — to get it right.
This is a refreshing and practical discussion for leaders and professionals who want to find a more sustainable, inclusive, and human-centred way to manage DE&I in the workplace.
Biography of the Guests
Morgan Hamel describes herself as a fashion ethicist and former compliance officer, now focused on exploring the intersection of ethics, reputation, and diversity in business. Morgan ran her own fashion company, The Garment, where she experienced firsthand the challenges of navigating DE&I, ultimately leading her to close the business. Passionate about finding new solutions to old problems, Morgan now collaborates with Chloe and Peter to help businesses tackle polarization and inclusivity more meaningfully.
Chloé Valdary founded The Theory of Enchantment, an innovative framework for DE&I that emphasizes compassion, curiosity, and emotional resilience. Chloé’s work has gained international recognition for its refreshing take on a traditionally contentious space. She’s committed to depolarizing organizations and fostering environments where diverse perspectives are welcomed and celebrated.
Peter Stein partners with Chloé at The Theory of Enchantment, bringing a broad humanist perspective to the world of DE&I. With a background that spans academia and business, Peter focuses on building bridges across ideological divides, helping organizations heal from the harm caused by poorly implemented DE&I practices. His work is rooted in a belief that compassion and open dialogue are key to effective change.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
* [00:00:00] Introduction: 300th episode celebration and series overview
* [00:01:00] Introducing guests: Morgan, Chloe, and Peter's unique collaboration
* [00:03:00] Morgan shares her journey from running a fashion company to her current focus on ethics and DE&I.
* [00:09:00] The difficulty of finding DE&I approaches that unify rather than divide.
* [00:16:00] Chloe discusses the harm caused by mainstream DE&I practices and the need for more human-centered approaches.
* [00:22:00] Peter shares stories of organizations harmed by divisive DE&I programs.
* [00:36:00] Morgan’s reflections on the value of the Theory of Enchantment’s work in depolarizing organizations.
* [00:50:00] The power of viewpoint diversity and why curiosity is key to effective DE&I.
* [00:54:00] Conclusion: What to expect in future episodes featuring more in-depth interviews with each guest.
Links
Theory of Enchantment website: https://theoryofenchantment.com
Morgan's website: https://www.morganhamel.com/
The Governance Certificate in Depolarization run by Morgan: https://www.cpaalberta.ca/Professional-Development/Executive-Programs/Governance-Certificate-in-De-Polarization
Jordan Peterson's interview with Chloé: https://youtu.be/3rZkv_prTOk?si=MyPXub1_0AMM-4S0
John McWhorter’s book, Woke Racism: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/696856/woke-racism-by-john-mcwhorter/
Bud Light Diversity Controversy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_Light_boycott
How does neurodiversity impact creativity? On this episode, I explore the challenges of mental health and how it can be both a driver of astonishing creativity and the cause of significant pain. I believe that having conversations about mental health is crucial if we want to create an inclusive society and get the best out of everyone.
To discuss this topic, I’m joined by the incredibly talented Matt Ottley, an author, illustrator, composer, and musician whose work spans multiple mediums and touches on profound themes. Matt’s journey as a creative artist has been deeply shaped by his experiences with Type 1 Bipolar Disorder, giving him a unique, and sometimes challenging, perspective on creativity and mental health.
Together, we discuss how Matt’s mental health has influenced his artistic process, how he navigates the extreme highs and lows of bipolar disorder, and how these experiences have culminated in his latest work, The Tree of Ecstasy and Unbearable Sadness. This project is a powerful multimedia exploration of psychosis and recovery, blending music, art, and storytelling. Matt has generously shared some of his music with us for the episode, so you’ll hear his words and his art.
Whether you’re interested in how art intersects with mental health, curious about how neurodiversity shapes creativity, or simply want to hear an inspiring story of personal challenges turned into extraordinary work, this is a conversation you won’t want to miss.
Biography of the Guest:
Matt Ottley is an acclaimed Australian artist, composer, author, and illustrator whose work spans multiple disciplines, including visual art, literature, and music. Born in Papua New Guinea and later raised in Australia, Matt’s career has seen him navigate a diverse range of artistic pursuits, from working as a flamenco and classical guitarist to composing orchestral works and illustrating children’s books. However, what makes Matt’s story truly compelling is how his experiences with Type 1 Bipolar Disorder have shaped his artistic journey.
In addition to being a highly respected figure in the Australian arts community, Matt’s work often delves into profound and deeply personal themes, particularly around mental health. His most recent multimedia project, The Tree of Ecstasy and Unbearable Sadness, is a powerful and immersive exploration of psychosis and recovery. This ambitious blend of visual art, music, and storytelling has been described as a groundbreaking representation of the experience of living with bipolar disorder.
Beyond his personal website, Matt’s work has been recognized globally. He has exhibited in major galleries, published numerous books, and collaborated with orchestras to create performances that fuse sound and sight. His art and music often reflect his internal experiences and challenges, offering a window into the complexities of neurodiversity.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary of Key Points:
[00:00:00] – Introduction by Christian Hunt, explaining the episode’s focus on mental health, creativity, and neurodiversity.
[00:01:00] – Christian introduces Matt Ottley, highlighting his artistic career and experiences with bipolar disorder.
[00:03:00] – Matt describes his childhood in Papua New Guinea and Australia and how his early creative talents emerged in unique ways.
[00:07:00] – Matt discusses how bipolar disorder first began to shape his creative output and artistic development.
[00:12:00] – Explanation of bipolar disorder and its various forms, including Matt’s personal experiences with psychosis.
[00:16:00] – The relationship between extreme emotions, creativity, and mental health and how they fuel Matt’s artistic process.
[00:23:00] – Matt describes his multimedia project, The Tree of Ecstasy and Unbearable Sadness, as a portrayal of his experiences with psychosis.
[00:33:00] – Christian and Matt discuss societal challenges around neurodiversity, creativity, and the stigma attached to mental health.
[00:47:00] – Matt explains his creative process, particularly how music, art, and words are deeply intertwined in his work.
[01:01:00] – The episode concludes with reflections on empathy, neurodiversity, and the importance of understanding mental health.
Links
Matt's website: https://mattottley.com/
The Tree of Ecstasy and Unbearable Sadness: https://mattottley.com/product/tree-of-e/
CityLit Mental Wealth Festival:Saturday October 11th – Film Screening of The Tree of Ecstasy and Unbearable Sadness followed by a Q&A with Matt Ottley (via Zoom): https://www.citylit.ac.uk/events/mental-wealth-festival
What makes a digital workplace truly effective? In this episode, I talk to Sharon O'Dea, co-founder of Lithos Partners, about the intricacies of navigating the digital workplace.
Sharon brings her wealth of experience in digital communications and workplace strategies to the table, sharing insights on how organizations can leverage technology to enhance employee performance and mitigate human risk.
The conversation delves into the practical challenges of managing digital workplaces, from AI integration to the complexities of remote work.
Sharon also offers personal anecdotes, including her unique experiences in Iraq and Amsterdam, shedding light on how geography can shape one’s professional journey.
You'll hear about the importance of effective communication, the risks of poor digital practices, and the evolving work landscape in a post-pandemic world.
Guest Biography
Sharon is the co-founder of Lithos Partners, a boutique consultancy that specializes in digital workplace strategies and internal communications.
With a career that spans several years in communications, Sharon has a rich background in digital transformation and helping organisations navigate the complexities of the modern workplace. Her work includes guiding companies in optimising digital employee experiences, managing organisational data, and adopting effective communication practices in an increasingly digital world.
On her official website, Sharon describes herself as a digital strategist passionate about using technology to enhance human potential.
Beyond her professional achievements, she is known for her engaging social media presence, sharing insights on digital work, remote working, and her experiences living in Amsterdam.
AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and guest Sharon O'Dea.
[00:01:00] Sharon discusses her work at Lithos Partners and her focus on digital workplace strategies.
[00:02:00] Sharon's experience in Iraq working with the fledgling Iraqi Parliament.
[00:04:00] Challenges of digital communication and collaboration in a sectarian context.
[00:06:00] Sharon’s move to Amsterdam and how the city influences her work and life.
[00:10:00] The importance of intentional communication in remote work environments.
[00:16:00] Discussion on AI note-takers and the risks they pose in workplace communication.
[00:20:00] Challenges of managing organizational data in a digital workplace.
[00:28:00] The debate over remote work versus returning to the office.
[00:32:00] The role of technology in building workplace connections and engagement.
[00:39:00] How to create value in the digital workplace and avoid bad digital practices.
[00:44:00] The evolving expectations for digital experiences in the workplace.
Links
Sharon's website: https://sharonodea.com/
The Week Note that covers this episode: https://sharonodea.com/2024/08/25/weeknote-2024-34/
Sharon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonodea/
Sharon's (now retired) account on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/sharonodea
Introducing the Decision-Making Studio Podcast
If you’re a regular listener to the show, you’ll know that it’s all about the risks of human decision-making.
I try to bring you guests who can help us to better understand them and what we can do to mitigate them.
One of those guests is Ben Cattaneo, the host of his own podcast, which was one of the inspirations for this show.
Ben’s show used to be called The All Things Risk podcast, but he recently rebranded it to The Decision-Making Studio podcast.
To mark this he launched what he calls an ‘inbetweenisode’ — a short explainer show — on his channel. It's done with his trademark honesty, insightfulness and a touch of humour.
If you’re listening to this show, then chances are you’ll find Ben’s show interesting.
So, I thought I’d let Ben take over this channel to share why he’s changing the show’s name and breaking up with risk.
You’ll find the show on all the usual podcast platforms.
Further information and links: https://thedecisionmaking.studio/podcast
To hear Ben’s previous appearances on this show:
Ben on Decision-making (April 2024): https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ben-cattaneo-on-decision-making-part-two/
Ben on All Things Risk (March 2020): https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ben-cattaneo-on-all-things/
A cross-cast of this show and the All Things Risk podcast (April 2020): https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/all-things-human-risk-crosscast/
How can passion and irritation lead to innovation and community building?
In this episode, my guest is Danielle Letayf, the founder of Badassery, a dynamic community designed for unconventional thought leaders dedicated to igniting change.
In our discussion, we delve into the essence of community building, exploring how cognitive diversity and shared values can create spaces that foster genuine connection and innovation. Danielle shares her journey from being the daughter of immigrant parents to a mission-driven entrepreneur in technology and media.
You’ll gain insights into the art of amplifying underrepresented voices and the importance of building communities that prioritize depth over scale. Danielle discusses her approach to curating a community where members are challenged and inspired to think differently, emphasizing the power of diverse perspectives in driving meaningful change. Our conversation also touches on the personal challenges of maintaining mental health and balance while pursuing ambitious goals.
Through her experiences, Danielle illustrates the importance of aligning personal values with professional endeavours, offering a candid look at the trials and triumphs of community building.
Guest Biography
Danielle Letayf is the founder and CEO of Badassery, a membership community for unconventional thought leaders who are dedicated to igniting change. Danielle describes herself as a passionate community builder with a mission to amplify the voices and stories of those who are often overlooked. Her career spans over a decade in community building, event management, and tech, where she has worked with notable organizations, including AOL and Verizon Media.
Beyond her professional achievements, Danielle’s journey is deeply influenced by her upbringing as the daughter of immigrant parents from the Middle East. This background has shaped her understanding of community, hospitality, and the power of storytelling. Danielle is also an advocate for cognitive diversity, believing that diverse perspectives are key to creating impactful and lasting communities.
For more on Danielle’s work and her community, visit Badassery’s official website and explore her projects.
Timestamped AI-produced summary of Key Points:
[00:00:00] - Introduction to the episode and the topic of community building
[00:01:00] - Danielle Letayf’s background and the founding of Badassery
[00:03:00] - Discussion on the importance of amplifying underrepresented voices.
[00:04:00] - The role of cognitive diversity in creating a cohesive community.
[00:05:00] - Challenges and strategies in curating a community that prioritizes depth over scale.
[00:08:00] - Danielle’s personal journey from corporate life to entrepreneurship.
[00:13:00] - The impact of values on community building and personal growth.
[00:17:00] - Balancing ambition with mental health and preventing burnout.
[00:22:00] - How Danielle’s experiences in tech have influenced her approach to community building.
[00:27:00] - The importance of flexibility and adaptability in pursuing entrepreneurial goals.
Links Mentioned:
Badassery Official Website
Danielle's LinkedIn Profile
What if we saw Artificial Intelligence as a mirror rather than as a form of intelligence?
That’s the subject of a fabulous new book by Professor Shannon Vallor, who is my guest on this episode.
In our discussion, we explore how artificial intelligence reflects not only our technological prowess but also our ethical choices, biases, and the collective values that shape our world.
We also discuss how AI systems mirror our societal flaws, raising critical questions about accountability, transparency, and the role of ethics in AI development.
Shannon helps me to examine the risks and opportunities presented by AI, particularly in the context of decision-making, privacy, and the potential for AI to influence societal norms and behaviours.
This episode offers a thought-provoking exploration of the intersection between technology and ethics, urging us to consider how we can steer AI development in a direction that aligns with our shared values.
Guest Biography
Prof. Shannon Vallor is the Baillie Gifford Chair in the Ethics of Data and Artificial Intelligence at the Edinburgh Futures Institute (EFI) at the University of Edinburgh, where she is also appointed in Philosophy.
She is Director of the Centre for Technomoral Futures in EFI, and co-Director of the BRAID (Bridging Responsible AI Divides) programme, funded by the Arts and Humanities Research Council. Professor Vallor's research explores how new technologies, especially AI, robotics, and data science, reshape human moral character, habits, and practices.
Her work includes advising policymakers and industry on the ethical design and use of AI. She is a standing member of the One Hundred Year Study of Artificial Intelligence (AI100) and a member of the Oversight Board of the Ada Lovelace Institute. Professor Vallor received the 2015 World Technology Award in Ethics from the World Technology Network and the 2022 Covey Award from the International Association of Computing and Philosophy.
She is a former Visiting Researcher and AI Ethicist at Google. In addition to her many articles and published educational modules on the ethics of data, robotics, and artificial intelligence, she is the author of the book Technology and the Virtues: A Philosophical Guide to a Future Worth Wanting (Oxford University Press, 2016) and The AI Mirror: Reclaiming Our Humanity in an Age of Machine Thinking (Oxford University Press, 2024).
AI Generated Timestamped Summary of Key Points:
00:02:30: Introduction to Professor Shannon Vallor and her work.
00:06:15: Discussion on AI as a mirror of societal values.
00:10:45: The ethical implications of AI decision-making. 00:18:20: How AI reflects human biases and the importance of transparency.
00:25:50: The role of ethics in AI development and deployment.
00:33:10: Challenges of integrating AI into human-centred contexts.
00:41:30: The potential for AI to shape societal norms and behaviours.
00:50:15: Professor Vallor’s insights on the future of AI and ethics.
00:58:00: Closing thoughts and reflections on AI’s impact on humanity.
Links
To find out more about Shannon and her work visit her website: https://www.shannonvallor.net/
The AI Mirror: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-ai-mirror-9780197759066?
A Noema essay by Shannon on the dangers of AI: https://www.noemamag.com/the-danger-of-superhuman-ai-is-not-what-you-think/
A New Yorker feature on the book https://www.newyorker.com/culture/open-questions/in-the-age-of-ai-what-makes-people-unique
The AI Mirror as one of the FT’s technology books of the summer https://www.ft.com/content/77914d8e-9959-4f97-98b0-aba5dffd581c
The FT review of The AI Mirror: https://www.ft.com/content/67d38081-82d3-4979-806a-eba0099f8011
For more on the Edinburgh Futures Institute: https://efi.ed.ac.uk/
Is there such a thing as an original idea? What if everything were actually a remix?
Episode Summary
In this episode, I'm exploring the fascinating concept of creativity with filmmaker, educator, and speaker Kirby Ferguson.
Kirby is best known for his groundbreaking video series “Everything Is A Remix,” which delves into the idea that creativity is all about copying, transforming, and combining existing ideas to form something new. During our conversation, Kirby shares his insights into how creativity works and why understanding the remixing process can make us better creators and more appreciative consumers of culture.
Kirby discusses various examples from his series, highlighting how iconic works in film, music, and technology are often built on the foundations laid by others. He also brings a fresh perspective on the intersection of creativity and technology, focusing on the role of artificial intelligence. The discussion touches on how AI is changing creative work, the ethical implications of machine-generated art, and Kirby’s thoughts on the future of AI in creative industries.
You'll hear a nuanced understanding of creativity’s hidden connections and how embracing the remixing process can relieve the pressure to be original. Whether you’re an artist, a technologist, or simply someone interested in the evolution of ideas, this episode offers a thought-provoking journey through the world of creativity.
Guest Biography
Kirby Ferguson describes himself as a filmmaker, educator, and speaker, best known for his viral video series “Everything Is A Remix,” which originally ran from 2010 to 2012. The series explores the idea that creativity is a process of copying, transforming, and combining existing ideas.
Following the success of the original series, Kirby released an updated version in 2022-2023.
He has spoken at TED, Google, Netflix, YouTube, and Hulu, among other prestigious venues. Kirby’s work continues to focus on creativity, media, and the rapidly evolving role of artificial intelligence in these fields.
Timestamped Summary of Key Points
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and guest, Kirby Ferguson.
[00:01:00] Kirby’s background and the impact of “Everything Is A Remix.”
[00:02:00] The nature of creativity and how everything is a remix.
[00:03:00] Kirby’s updated series and ongoing projects.
[00:04:00] The genesis of “Everything Is A Remix” and the concept of remixing in creativity. •
[00:05:00] Examples of remixing in film, music, and technology.
[00:08:00] The pressure to be original and the value of remixing.
[00:09:00] The role of eclecticism and broad experiences in creativity.
[00:12:00] The connection between creativity and analogy.
[00:16:00] The challenge of being a generalist and finding connections across domains.
[00:19:00] The balance between novelty and familiarity in creative work.
[00:23:00] AI’s role in creativity and the controversy surrounding it.
[00:30:00] The ethical implications of AI-generated art.
[00:34:00] Kirby’s views on the future of AI in creative industries.
[00:45:00] The practical uses of AI in creative work.
[00:54:00] The importance of understanding AI’s limitations.
[01:01:00] How Kirby’s insights apply to compliance and human risk.
Links Mentioned
Everything Is A Remix website including Kirby's courses - www.everythingisaremix.info.
Kirby on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirbyferguson/
Kirby's TED Talk 'Embrace The Remix' - https://www.ted.com/talks/kirby_ferguson_embrace_the_remix?subtitle=en
Queen & David Bowie 'Under Pressure' - https://open.spotify.com/track/6suU8oBlW4O2pg88tOXgHo?si=3249601d4212498b
Vanilla Ice 'Ice ice Baby' that uses a sample of 'Under Pressure' - https://open.spotify.com/track/3XVozq1aeqsJwpXrEZrDJ9?si=0c3305b283b84c13
Related Episodes of the Human Risk Podcast
1. Ian Leslie on Conflict - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ian-leslie-on-conflict-/
- Interview with ChatGPT - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/chat-gpt-3-on-ai-human-risk/
What would motivate someone to cycle 4,000 miles across America, and what stories might they uncover along the way?
Episode Summary
On this episode, I speak with travel writer Simon Parker, who recently cycled 4,000 miles across America.
Simon's journey, from Seattle to Key West, was a mission — ahead of the US election in November — to understand the current social and cultural landscape of the United States by speaking with everyday people.
Throughout the episode, listeners will hear about the challenges Simon faced, the incredible stories he gathered, and the unique perspectives he gained on issues like gun control, religion, freedom of speech, and food deserts.
Simon shares how his passion for travel and long-distance cycling has shaped his career as a writer and journalist. He discusses how the pandemic and becoming a father have influenced his work and personal life. The conversation delves into the logistics of such a massive undertaking, including the physical and mental demands, and how cycling serves as both a method of travel and a means to connect with strangers.
You’ll hear compelling anecdotes from Simon's trip, illustrating the kindness of strangers and the diverse experiences of Americans. This episode provides a deep dive into the lesser-heard voices and the real-life impact of political and social issues in the US, making it a thought-provoking listen for anyone interested in travel, journalism, or American culture.
Guest Biography
Simon Parker is a British travel writer, journalist, and filmmaker based on the edge of the Cotswolds. He has spent the past 20 years traveling the world, working for notable publications and broadcasters such as The Telegraph, The Times and the BBC. Simon has visited over 150 countries, creating documentaries and writing extensively about his experiences.
Describing himself as someone who has always been passionate about travel, Simon's career began with a one-way ticket to New Zealand at the age of 19, leading to years of hitchhiking around Australia and New Zealand.
His adventures have taken him from the remote islands of the Pacific to the bustling cities of Europe. Simon is known for his long-distance cycling expeditions, which have become a central theme in his writing and journalism.
His new book, "A Ride Across America," documents his 4,000-mile journey across the United States, exploring the country's small towns and big issues in the lead-up to the presidential election.
Links
Simon’s website: https://www.simonwparker.co.uk
His books ‘Riding Out’ and ‘A Ride Across America’: https://www.simonwparker.co.uk/books/
Simon’s UK theatre tour dates; https://www.simonwparker.co.uk/speaking/
Timestamped Summary
00:00:00 - Introduction
00:01:00 - Overview of Simon's cycling adventure across America.
00:02:00 - Simon's background and career as a travel writer.
00:04:00 - The motivation behind Simon's passion for travel.
00:07:00 - Impact of the pandemic on Simon's life and work.
00:09:00 - The logistics and challenges of long-distance cycling.
00:12:00 - Cultural and social dynamics encountered during the trip.
00:14:00 - Simon's reflections on the kindness of strangers.
00:17:00 - Balancing family life with a career in travel writing.
00:20:00 - Overview of Simon's new book and its themes.
00:23:00 - Discussions on gun control, religion, and freedom of speech.
00:27:00 - The concept of food deserts in America.
00:30:00 - Starting conversations with strangers during the journey.
00:33:00 - Unexpected themes and stories from the trip.
00:36:00 - Reflections on slow travel and its benefits.
00:39:00 - Simon's thoughts on the future of travel writing.
00:42:00 - Writing process and challenges of creating the book.
00:45:00 - Insights gained from the journey and changing perspectives.
00:49:00 - Simon's views on gun ownership and personal safety.
00:51:00 - Conversations about religion and personal beliefs.
00:54:00 - Future plans and upcoming projects.
00:56:00 - Conclusion and final thoughts from Simon
How do you get 𝟲𝟮,𝟬𝟬𝟬 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 to keep a 𝘀𝗲𝗰𝗿𝗲𝘁? By not calling it a secret.
With the opening ceremony of the Paris 2024 Olympics later today, on this episode, I'm looking back 12 years to the London 2012 Olympics.
In this episode, we dive into the behind-the-scenes secrets of the London 2012 Olympic Opening and Closing Ceremonies with Victoria Sena, a participant and former colleague of mine from the UK Financial Services Authority. We discuss the meticulous planning, the psychology behind the “Save the Surprise” campaign, and the incredible volunteer effort led by Danny Boyle.
Back then, the opening ceremony director 𝗗𝗮𝗻𝗻𝘆 𝗕𝗼𝘆𝗹𝗲 faced a dilemma.
He needed to hold a dress rehearsal to ensure nothing went wrong on the night. But to make it as realistic as possible, he’d need a stadium full of test viewers.
Boyle wanted the details of the opening ceremony to be a surprise. Having 62,000 people who’d seen it ahead of time posed a potential risk.
So he did something clever.
Since some people aren’t good at keeping secrets, Boyle spoke directly to his test audience and asked them to help '𝘴𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘱𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘦’.
Knowing they’d likely want to share their experience on social media, he suggested they use the hashtag hashtag#savethesurprise. While he encouraged them to share as much as they liked about their experience, he asked them not to divulge specific details of the show.
It worked exactly as he’d hoped.
I wrote about this recently on LinkedIn, and a former colleague Victoria Sena, got in touch to say that she was part of the ceremony and had some insights to share. So, I invited her to the show to get an insider's view of what happened.
Guest Bio
Victoria Sena started her career at the UK Financial Services Authority, worked at the Bank of England, and has since moved into the private sector as a COO. She played a significant role in the London 2012 Olympic ceremonies and brings a unique perspective on the intersection of large-scale event planning and compliance.
AI-generated Timestamped Summary:
• [00:00:00] - Introduction and context of the episode.
• [00:01:00] - The “Save the Surprise” story from “Humanising Rules.”
• [00:03:00] - Victoria’s background and career journey.
• [00:05:00] - Decision-making around volunteering for the Olympics.
• [00:09:00] - The audition process and commitment required.
• [00:14:00] - The role of psychology and selling the dream.
• [00:20:00] - The meticulous planning and the role of professionals.
• [00:27:00] - Problem-solving during rehearsals.
• [00:32:00] - The “Save the Surprise” campaign’s impact on secrecy.
• [00:39:00] - Final thoughts on the success of the London 2012 ceremonies.
Links
Find Victoria on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vlnsena/
Six Degrees Wealth Management: https://thisis6.com/
The London 2012 Olympic Ceremony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4As0e4de-rI
The LinkedIn post that prompted Victoria to get in touch with me: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/humanrisk_savethesurprise-ethics-compliance-activity-7195309250129096704-dwyM?
To read the first few chapters of my book 'Humanizing Rules' for free: www.humanizingrules.com
Why do we travel? Obviously, sometimes we do it to go to work or visit family. But lots of us also do it for fun, becuase we can. And we naturally presume that’ it’s an unalloyed good. But is it?
My guest, whose new book ‘Airplane Mode’ explores some of the complexities and contradictions of travel and tourism, is Shahnaz Habib.
She’s a writer and translator, but intriguingly, isn’t a travel writer or affiliated with the travel industry, which means she can approach the subject with a unique perspective.
IIn the book and in our discussion, you'll hear all about passport privilege, how those of us with first-world passports can travel relatively freely while others with less powerful ones struggle.
Discover how the creation of guidebooks, their online successors, and social media have influenced our travel choices in ways that aren't necessarily always good.
We also explore the politics of mobility, whether travel is always necessary or indeed a good thing, its environmental impact, the role of the tourism industry in shaping our travel desires, and the often-overlooked mundane aspects of travel that contribute to our overall experience.
This isn’t an episode about why you shouldn’t travel — Shahnaz was on vacation while we recorded it — rather, it’s about questioning why and how we do it.
AI generatedTimestamped Summary
[00:00] Introduction and welcome
[00:45] Shahnaz introduces herself and her background
[02:00] The inspiration behind “Airplane Mode”
[06:00] Discussing ‘passport privilege’ and its implications
[14:00] The environmental impact of travel
[19:00] Questioning the necessity of travel and ‘wanderlust’
[25:00] The history and influence of guidebooks on travel
[32:00] Embracing the mundane aspects of travel
[38:00] Shahnaz’s personal travel principles
[46:00] Reflecting on travel inequities and geopolitical impacts
[56:00] Closing thoughts and future work
Links
Airplane Mode - https://books.catapult.co/books/airplane-mode/
Shahnaz’s website - https://www.shahnazhabib.com/
What can we learn from magic? On this episode, I’m joined by two magicians, Fergus Flanagan and Neb Maciver, founders of Talk Magic and both accomplished magicians in their own right, who join me to share their unique journeys, from Fergus's early days working on Children's BBC to Neb’s transition from band life to full-time magician.
Through their Talk Magic partnership, they aim to inspire conversations around storytelling, creativity, and mental health. You’ll hear them open up about their personal struggles and how those experiences have shaped their professional relationship and the creation of Talk Magic.
We also discuss the multifaceted journey of becoming a successful magician, why mastering responsibilities like website building, PR, and social media is as important as the performance.
Neb and Fergus share insights on how magicians market themselves to become essential at events and create emotional connections with potential clients. Learn about the significance of collaboration, spontaneity, and maintaining engaging performances.
Hear how the bond between Fergus and Neb forms the foundation of their unique workshops, blending magic with valuable life lessons for personal and professional growth.
Finally, we explore the versatility and impact of incorporating magic into corporate events and workshops. Discover how Fergus and Neb ensure each magic trick is relevant and actionable for their audience, making their sessions engaging and memorable.
We also touch upon the ethics and intrigue of magic, balancing the maintenance of illusions with audience curiosity. With reflections on the privilege and absurdity of being magicians, our conversation reveals how magic serves as a universal equaliser, creating a level playing field for all participants.
Key Discussion Points (AI generated)
1. Introduction to Fergus and Neb:
* [00:01:00] Their individual journeys into magic.
* [00:04:30] Fergus's career beginning with Children's BBC and Neb’s transition from music to magic
* [00:08:15] The formation of their collaborative venture, Talk Magic.
2. The Art of Magic Beyond Illusions:
* [00:12:00] The importance of storytelling, creativity, and mental health awareness in their performances.
* [00:15:45] The behind-the-scenes work that goes into becoming a successful magician, including PR, social media, and creating emotional connections with clients.
3. Creating Impactful Performances and Workshops:
* [00:20:30] How Talk Magic combines magic with life lessons to foster personal and professional growth.
* [00:24:10] The significance of keeping performances fresh and spontaneous.
4. Magic in Corporate Workshops and Events:
* [00:28:45] The balance between maintaining the mystique of magic and engaging the audience.
* [00:32:20] The role of magic as a universal equaliser in corporate settings.
5. The Business and Ethics of Magic:
* [00:37:00] The multifaceted responsibilities of magicians, from website building to accountancy.
* [00:41:25] Ethical considerations in magic, such as balancing the audience's curiosity with the need to maintain the illusion.
6. Magic as a Tool for Learning and Connection:
* [00:46:10] Magic's effectiveness in stealth learning and creating emotional connections.
* [00:50:00] The profound impact of combining magic with valuable life lessons.
7. Personal Struggles and Professional Synergy:
* [00:54:30] How Fergus and Neb’s shared struggles have shaped their professional relationship.
* [00:58:20] Their commitment to supporting each other through difficult times.
8. Building and Naming the Brand:
* [01:02:45] The journey of naming their brand "Talk Magic" and its significance.
* [01:06:15] The impact of their tagline "magicians who love to share secrets."
9. Engaging Corporate Clients:
* [01:10:40] The challenges and successes of making magic relevant and actionable for corporate audiences.
* [01:15:00] The importance of clear communication and demonstrating practical benefits.
10. Continuous Improvement and Authenticity:
* [01:19:30] Their obsessive approach to refining their workshops and performances. -
* [01:23:45] The value of maintaining high standards in both magic and the educational content they provide.
11. Magic's Universal Appeal:
* [01:28:10] How magic can connect individuals from diverse backgrounds and experiences.
* [01:32:00] The influence of a magician's mindset on everyday problem-solving and awareness.
Links
Talk Magic - https://www.wearetalkmagic.com/
Talk Magic on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/wearetalkmagic
Talk Magic on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/talkmagic/
Neb’s website - https://nebmagic.com/ Fergus’ website - https://fergusflanagan.com/
The tweet by Derren Brown that first made Neb aware of Fergus - https://x.com/DerrenBrown/status/253536114269372416
How can we solve 'wicked problems' within complex organisations? A wicked problem is a social or cultural problem that's difficult or impossible to solve because of its complex and interconnected nature. Wicked problems lack clarity in both their aims and solutions and are subject to real-world constraints which hinder risk-free attempts to find a solution.
If that sounds like a big challenge, it is. But it's precisely the kind of thing my guests on this episode, Koen Smets & Dr Bart Derre relish. By using innovative methods, Koen and Bart try to bring behavioural change to the organisations they work with.
On the episode, delve into their unique approach that combines design science research, self-regulated learning, and data-driven methodologies to tackle complex challenges.
Bart and Koen share their experiences and insights on the importance of context, the role of leadership in training, and the dynamics of compliance versus entrepreneurial behaviour. You'll hear about self-regulated learning and the experimental nature of their work.
Koen Smets is a behavioural economist and consultant who teaches at St. Louis University. He's best known for his online moniker Koenfucius, where he blogs about all things behavioural.
Dr Bart Derre is is the Director of the Center for Entrepreneurship at the University of Applied Science in Ghent. Together, they have co-authored a book on entrepreneurial behaviour and founded the consultancy firm, The Bee.
Links:
The Bee Consultancy - https://www.dercon.be/team
Koen on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/koensmets/
Koen's blog - https://koenfucius.wordpress.com/
Koen on Twitter - https://twitter.com/koenfucius
Bart on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bartderre/
Timestamped Summary (AI generated)
- [00:01:00] Introducing the guests: Koen Smets and Dr. Bart Dero.
- [00:02:00] Background on Koen and Bart's expertise in behavioural science and their unique insights.
- [00:04:00] Discussion on their entrepreneurial organization and approach to behavioural change.
- [00:06:00] Explanation of self-regulated learning and its significance.
- [00:08:00] Tackling compliance challenges using behavioural science.
- [00:10:00] Real-world applications and case studies of their methodologies.
- [00:12:00] The role of leadership in implementing and supporting behavioural change.
- [00:14:00] Balancing organizational goals with regulatory requirements.
- [00:16:00] Examples of key behavioural indicators (KBIs) versus key performance indicators (KPIs).
- [00:20:00] Insights into creating a safe environment for self-regulated learning.
- [00:22:00] Discussion on the importance of feedback loops and continuous improvement.
- [00:24:00] The need for trust and psychological safety within organizations.
- [00:28:00] Addressing challenges in regulated industries and the importance of flexible compliance.
- [00:32:00] The significance of qualitative data in understanding and improving behaviours.
- [00:36:00] The impact of organizational structures on behaviour and performance.
- [00:40:00] Encouraging innovation and creativity within structured environments.
Why do some great ideas succeed while others fail despite having everything else in place?
On this episode, we welcome back Paul Orlando, an expert on unintended consequences and systems thinking.
Paul introduces his new book, "Why Now: How Good Timing Makes Great Products," and discusses the pivotal role timing plays in the success of startups and innovation.
Through historical examples and modern-day insights, Paul explains how to identify the right moment for launching new ventures and the frameworks he developed for timing analysis.
Bio
Paul is a seasoned entrepreneur, advisor, and author, known for his expertise in unintended consequences and systems thinking. 'Why Now' explores the crucial aspect of timing in innovation.
Summary of Key Points:
* 00:00: Introduction and welcome back to Paul Orlando.
* 01:00: Paul's shift from unintended consequences to the topic of timing.
* 02:00: The significance of timing in startup success.
* 05:00: Historical examples of timing, including AT&T and mobile telephony.
* 10:00: Frameworks and methodologies for analyzing timing.
* 14:00: Case study of YouTube and earlier attempts at video streaming.
* 20:00: The role of social and behavioral changes in timing.
* 30:00: How businesses can apply timing analysis in decision-making.
* 35:00: Personal reflections on the impact of timing on life and work.
Links
Paul's book: 'Why Now: How Good Timing Makes Great Products' - https://www.amazon.com/Why-Now-Timing-Makes-Products/dp/B0CYXSNMT3
Paul's website: https://startupsunplugged.com/
Paul's previous appearance on the show on Unintended Consequences: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-orlando-on-unintended-consequences/
What can canaries in coalmines teach us about diversity and inclusion? In this episode, I’m speaking to an academic who has some fascinating ideas and insights into how we can create more inclusive work environments and cultures — in other words, how to get the best out of all employees.
Guest Bio
My guest, Dr. Ludmila Praslova, is a Professor and the Founding Director of Graduate Programs in Organizational Psychology at Vanguard University in Costa Mesa, California. She is an industrial organizational psychologist with a background in global diversity, intercultural relations, and, more recently, neurodiversity in the workplace.
She’s also the author of a new book called 'The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work’ which takes a concept you’ve heard of — the canary in the coal mine — and applies it to the world of inclusion.
Her simple yet fascinating idea is that if we can focus on meeting the needs of those who are most sensitive to negative workplace dynamics and then create an environment that allows them to flourish, we can create an environment where everyone can flourish.
Episode Description:
In our discussion, we explore the importance of removing barriers in the workplace, the pitfalls of traditional hiring practices, and how the Canary Code works in practice. You'll hear
insights on creating inclusive environments, addressing workplace biases, and why something I've often done, viewing neurodivergent traits as 'superpowers', is actually unhelpful.
AI-generated timestamp summary
[00:00:00] - Introduction
* Christian Hunt introduces Dr. Ludmila Praslova, discussing her book "The Canary Code" and its focus on inclusive work environments.
[00:01:00] - Ludmila's Background
* Ludmila, an industrial-organizational psychologist, specializes in global diversity, intercultural relations, and neurodiversity.
[00:03:00] - Interest in Diversity
* Ludmila's journey into diversity began with global diversity and now focuses on intersectional inclusivity and neurodiversity.
[00:07:00] - The Canary Code Concept
* The concept suggests that addressing the needs of the most vulnerable employees can improve conditions for all.
[00:11:00] - Flexibility in the Workplace
* Emphasizes creating flexible work environments to reduce workplace toxicity and improve productivity.
[00:18:00] - Neurodiversity Explained
* Neurodiversity includes ADHD, dyslexia, autism, and other neurological differences that impact workplace experiences.
[00:22:00] - Managerial Concerns
* Managers don't need to specialize in every condition but should create generally inclusive and flexible environments.
[00:25:00] - Job Matching and Crafting
* Focus on matching jobs to individual strengths and job crafting to optimize roles.
[00:28:00] - The Limits of Flexibility
* Some roles require specific skills and cannot be flexible, but many roles can adapt to a diverse workforce.
[00:31:00] - Validity in Hiring Practices
* Emphasizes the need for valid, job-relevant assessments in hiring to ensure fairness and effectiveness.
[00:39:00] - Resistance to Change
* Some organizations resist flexible work practices, but modern, flexible practices can help attract and retain talent.
[00:46:00] - Book Structure
* "The Canary Code" is structured to be accessible to CEOs, diversity professionals, and neurodivergent individuals, with stories, research, and practical advice.
[00:58:00] - The Superpower Myth
* While neurodivergent individuals may see their traits as superpowers, using this as a hiring argument is problematic.
[01:02:00] - Conclusion
* Advocates for creating environments where everyone can thrive without needing extraordinary measures. Encourages more inclusive and flexible workplace practices.
Links
Ludmila's Faculty Page - https://www.vanguard.edu/about/history
The Canary Code - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/742858/the-canary-code-by-ludmila-n-praslova-phd/
Ludmila on Social Media
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ludmila-praslova/
Twitter/X - https://x.com/ludmilapraslova
A piece explaining the point we discussed on the show about why neurodiversity isn't a 'superpower' - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/positively-different/202405/healing-the-invalidation-the-complex-truth-of-autism
How is technology impacting money laundering? On this episode, I'm welcoming investigative journalist Geoff White back onto the show.
In 2022, Geoff joined me to talk about his book and podcast The Lazarus Heist, the story of how North Korean hackers launched an attack on Sony Pictures in 2014.
This time, he's back to talk about his brand new book 'Rinsed' which looks at money laundering in a digital world.
In it, Geoff explores how thieves who steal digital money that’s highly traceable, launder it so that they can make use of it?
In a wide-ranging disucssion, we also talk about Geoff’s work as an investigative reporter — how does he get his information, what are the risks in doing what he does and you’ll hear the astonishing reasons why people you might not expect would want to talk to him, actually do.
Links
Hear Geoff's previous appearance on the show talking aboiut The Lazarus Heist:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/geoff-white-on-the-lazarus-heist/
His BBC World podcast of the same name - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads
Learn more about his new book 'Rinsed' - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455031/rinsed-by-white-geoff/9780241624838
Geoff's website - https://geoffwhite.tech/
Timestamped Notes (generateed by AI)[00:00:00] - Introduction
* Christian welcomes Geoff White back to the podcast.
* Geoff's new book "Rinsed" and updates since his last appearance.
[00:01:00] - North Korea's Cyber Activities
* Discussion on North Korea's cyber operations and the Axie Infinity hack.
* The scale and speed of the $625 million cryptocurrency theft.
[00:02:00] - Money Laundering Techniques
* The importance of money laundering in cybercrime.
* How hackers collaborate with financial experts to launder money.
[00:03:00] - Evolution of Money Laundering
* The shift from traditional cash-based laundering to digital methods.
* Examples of how different criminal groups use technology to launder money.
[00:04:00] - Money Laundering as a Service
* The concept of "Money Laundering as a Service."
* Comparison with "Hacking as a Service."
[00:05:00] - Classic Money Laundering Stages
* Explanation of the three stages: placement, layering, and integration.
* Historical context with examples from the 1980s.
[00:09:00] - Digital Era of Money Laundering
* Challenges of tracing digital money.
* The global nature of digital money laundering and its implications.
[00:10:00] - International and Technological Aspects
* How criminals use technology to launder money across borders.
* The role of cryptocurrency in modern money laundering.
[00:13:00] - Role of Financial Institutions
* The involvement of traditional financial institutions in money laundering.
* How compliance teams can combat these activities.
[00:14:00] - Investigating Money Laundering
* Geoff's research methods and challenges in uncovering these stories.
* The importance of firsthand accounts and digital breadcrumbs.
[00:17:00] - Notable Cases
* Key cases from Geoff's book, including the Axie Infinity hack and others.
* The significance of technology in these crimes.
[00:20:00] - Interaction with Law Enforcement
* Experiences with law enforcement agencies during investigations.
* The case of the Instagram influencer Hushpuppi.
[00:23:00] - Personal Safety and Cyber Risk
* Geoff's approach to managing personal cyber risk.
* The importance of separating public and private online personas.
[00:26:00] - The WannaCry Ransomware Attack
* Challenges in tracing ransomware payments.
* A specific investigation into the WannaCry attack.
[00:28:00] - Future of Cyber Risk
* Geoff's views on the future of cyber risk and AI.
* The potential for AI to assist both criminals and investigators.
[00:34:00] - Regulation and Technology
* The need for proactive regulation in tech and finance.
* Challenges faced by regulators in keeping up with rapid technological advancements.
[00:40:00] - Title and Cover of the Book
* The process behind choosing the book's title, "Rinsed."
* Importance of a compelling cover and subtitle.
[00:42:00] - Continuous Learning in Cybercrime
* The evolving nature of cybercrime stories.
* The impact of new developments on the book's content.
[00:46:00] - Tech Enablers and Libertarian Views
* Common traits among tech enablers in money laundering.
* The vision of a new world driven by innovative financial technologies.
[00:51:00] - Advice for Regulators
* Geoff's perspective on how regulators can keep pace with technological change.
* The balance between enabling innovation and preventing crime.
[00:55:00] - Conclusion
* Geoff's final thoughts and a reminder about his book "Rinsed."
* Encouragement to support local bookstores through Bookshop.org.
How can organisations get the best out of the humans they employ and empower them to help deliver desired outcomes? The answer is by focusing on the decisions taken that are critical in determining whether or not the right outcome is achieved.
On this episode, I speak to Sarah Abramson, Head of Marketing at Acteon, a communication and learning agency in Cambridge, UK.
I came across Acteon last year after they approached me to be the keynote speaker at their annual event called, appropriately enough, Speak To The Human.
I had such a brilliant time and met so many amazing people — some of whom have been guests on the show, links below — that not only did I do what keynote speakers hardly ever do and stick around for the rest of the day after I’d done my presentation, but I’m also going back to this year’s event as an attendee.
It’s taking place this week, and since Speak To The Human is a very small invite-only event, you can’t buy tickets, and it isn’t recorded or streamed, I thought I’d ask Sarah, as event organizer, to join me on a special episode of this show to share some of the magic that grabbed my attention.
In our discussion, we talk about the event, how Sarah goes about curating it and some of the unusual elements she incorporates to make it less a conference and more of a gathering of itnersting people. What she has to say is a fascinating blueprint for thinking about live events in a post-pandemic world.
Before we get to that, Sarah talks about Acteon's work — you’ll hear some fascinating case studies of human risk-related problems being solved creatively. She tells me about the importance of understanding human behaviour — not the theory of what people should do, but the realities of what they actually do — how storytelling can help effective communication and how to create belonging and connection within organisations.
And we hear about Sarah’s passion for marathon running and coaching, exploring the parallels between athletic training that seeks to get teh best out of individual runners and getting the best of of employees at work
Key Topics:
Introduction to Sarah Abramson and Acteon [00:00:00]
+ Sarah’s role at Acteon and her background in marketing communications.
+ Overview of Acteon’s work in communication and learning.
* Translating Strategy into Actions [00:02:00]
+ The challenge of making boardroom strategies actionable for employees.
+ Examples of how Acteon supports clients in implementing strategies.
* Moments that Matter [00:04:00]
+ Identifying critical actions that significantly impact strategic success.
+ Case study on health and safety compliance in care homes.
* Building a Positive Remote Work Culture [00:05:00]
+ Strategies for maintaining company culture in a hybrid work environment.
+ The importance of inclusive and high-quality hybrid meetings.
* Behavioural Science Framework: COM-B [00:07:00]
+ Explanation of the COM-B model: Capability, Motivation, and Opportunity.
+ How Acteon uses this model to influence employee behaviour.
* Storytelling in Communication [00:26:00]
+ The power of storytelling to engage and influence employees.
+ Examples of effective storytelling in corporate settings.
* Sarah’s Experience in Marathon Running and Coaching [00:45:00]
+ Insights from Sarah’s dual role as a marathon runner and coach.
+ Parallels between athletic training and corporate behaviour.
* Parental Insights into Human Behaviour [00:34:00]
+ How parenting skills translate into professional skills.
+ The value of understanding human behaviour through parenting experiences.
* Speak to the Human Event* [01:00:00]
+ Overview of Acteon’s annual event focusing on human connection.
+ Themes and unique elements of the event include music and magic.
Links to Relevant Resources:
Acteon Communications
* Sarah on LinkedIn
* The COM-B Model
* Steve Peters’ "The Chimp Paradox"
* Daniel Kahneman’s "Thinking, Fast and Slow"
* Speak to the Human 2024
* The Speak to the Human podcast* featuring an episode with a guest you might recognise.
Previous episodes of this show featuring people I met at last year's Speak To The Human:
Hannah Williams on The Art of Live Scribing: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hannah-williams-on-the-art-of-live-scribing/
Heather Urquhart on Improvisation two-part special: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-one/
What might the future of society look like & how can we get there?
On this episode, I’m speaking to a best-selling author who has written an extraordinary book about her vision for the future.
Unusually, the book is a work of fiction for the show, but the issues it addresses are very relevant to Human Risk.
My guest is Manda Scott, who began her career as a veterinary surgeon and is now an award-winning writer and podcaster.
Her new book, Any Human Power, has the subtext Dream deeply. Rise up strong. Change is coming andis centred around a protagonist named Lan, a woman on her deathbed who makes a promise to her grandson, Finn. Realising he is struggling with the idea of living in a world without her, she vows to be there for him even after her death. As she passes away, she steps into a shamanic realm known as the void, where she learns to navigate and influence the timelines of the future.
Lan's journey is marked by her attempts to keep her promise to Finn, acting from beyond the grave to guide and protect him. The narrative explores the complex interplay between life and death, human connection, and the power of shamanic practices. Lan discovers that she can impact the physical world through the digital realm, using online gaming to connect with Finn and help him in his moments of need.
During our discussion; we explore Manda’s career, what drives her writing and the topics she explores in Any Human Power.
Links to relevant topics
Manda’s author’s website: https://mandascott.co.uk/
Her podcast ‘Accidental Gods’: https://accidentalgods.life/
Bayo Akomolafe - The Time's Are Urgent — Let's Slow Down:
https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/post/the-times-are-urgent-lets-slow-down
Francis Weller on the Trauma Culture vs Initiation Culture: https://medium.com/best-of-kosmos-journal/deschooling-dialogues-on-initiation-trauma-and-ritual-with-francis-weller-3f360fe26563
The evolution of Audrey Tang https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-hackers-polis-consensus-social-media-platform
How Audrey’s Tang crowdsourced government https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/the-wisdom-of-crowds-an-interview-with-taiwans-unorthodox-digital-minister/
Wealth Supremacy by Marjorie Kelly https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/wealth-supremacy-how-the-extractive-economy-and-the-biased-rules-of-capitalism-drive-today-s-crises-marjorie-kelly/7452410?ean=9781523004775
The ‘Bankless’ podcast with Eliezer Yudkowsky http://podcast.banklesshq.com/159-were-all-gonna-die-with-eliezer-yudkowsky
Riversimple Future Guardian Governance model https://www.riversimple.com/governance/
Timestamp Highlights (AI generated) [00:00:00] - Introduction* Christian Hunt introduces Manda Scott and her background.
[00:01:00] - Manda's Journey* Manda talks about her background in Scotland, starting as a veterinary surgeon, and transitioning to a novelist and podcaster. * She highlights her work in intensive care for neonatal horses and her academic journey.
[00:02:00] - Transition to Writing and Podcasting* Manda discusses her decision to leave academia and pursue writing. * She explains the impact of her master's in regenerative economics on her career shift.
[00:03:00] - Regenerative Economics and Shamanic Dreaming* Manda explains how her studies and shamanic dreaming influence her work and perspectives. * Introduction to the concept of "Accidental Gods" podcast and its goals.
[00:04:00] - The Need for Systemic Change* Discussion on the necessity for total systemic change and evolving human consciousness. * Manda emphasizes changing our value set to create a thriving world.
[00:06:00] - Shamanic Practice and Creative Process* Manda elaborates on shamanic dreaming and its role in her creative process. * She shares how visions and instructions guide her writing.
[00:14:00] - Writing Inspiration and Process* Manda describes the inspiration behind her latest book and her unique writing process. * She explains the metaphor of splitting timelines and the challenges of writing about the future.
[00:19:00] - Online Gaming and Human Connection* Discussion on the role of online gaming in building human connections. * Manda shares personal experiences and the positive aspects of gaming communities.
[00:26:00] - Technology as a Tool for Change* Manda highlights Audrey Tang's work in Taiwan and the potential of technology for positive societal change. * The importance of using technology to build bridges and foster consensus.
[00:34:00] - Capitalism and Value Systems* Discussion on the destructive nature of capitalism and the need for new value systems. * Manda explains the concept of "Wealth Supremacy" and systemic change.
[00:41:00] - Writing Through Topia* Manda talks about the difficulty of writing a realistic path to a better future. * The importance of creating stories that resonate with people's current experiences and aspirations.
[00:49:00] - Human Connection and Creativity* Manda discusses the power of human connection and creativity in building a sustainable future. * Emphasis on embracing technology while evolving beyond Palaeolithic emotions and medieval institutions.
[00:53:00] - Call to Action* Manda's call to action for systemic change and building a future for future generations. * Importance of storytelling and creative imagination in driving change.
[00:59:00] - Closing Thoughts* Christian and Manda discuss the impact of her book and provide practical information for listeners. * Final remarks on the importance of community, technology, and systemic change.
Why is misinformation so prevalent, and what can we do about it? On this episode, I’m speaking with Alex Edmans, a London Business School Finance Professor who has written a book called ‘May Contain Lies: How Stories, Statistics, and Studies Exploit Our Biases and What We Can Do About It’.
Alex’s areas of focus are purposeful business, sustainable investing, corporate governance, and behavioural finance. He’s also very prepared to use his platform to challenge people who propagate inaccuracies or misleading information.
In our discussion, we explore why he wrote his book, the impact of cognitive biases on decision-making, and practical solutions to navigate a world rife with misinformation.
You’ll hear about the pitfalls of relying on research produced with an agenda in mind and why we need to be wary when we’re told that a particular academic establishment has published a piece of research.
Alex also explains why the popular belief that if you spend 10,000 hours on a particular activity, you’ll have to be skilled at it might not be all it seems and why popular management mantras like ‘start with why’ aren’t as effective as those who propose them might like us to believe.
He talks about his own experiences and why his judgement has been just as vulnerable to biases as ours. Find out why cognitive diversity matters and why we shouldn’t listen to everyone’s views.
Timestamp Highlights: (Produced by AI)
[00:00:00] Introduction
+ Christian introduces Professor Alex Edmans and discusses his impact on social media and public discourse.
* [00:01:00] Motivation for Writing "May Contain Lies"
+ Alex explains his transition from academic research to writing about misinformation and the importance of discerning data accuracy over personal biases.
* [00:02:00] Cognitive Biases and Their Impact
+ Discussion on confirmation bias and black-and-white thinking and how they affect our perception of data and evidence.
* [00:04:00] Personal Experiences with Bias
+ Alex shares personal anecdotes illustrating how even experts can fall prey to biases and misinformation.
* [00:08:00] The 10,000 Hours Rule
+ A critical look at Malcolm Gladwell's popular concept and its misinterpretations.
* [00:13:00] Research and Decision-Making
+ The importance of scrutinising academic research and the pitfalls of relying solely on endorsements and institutional affiliations.
* [00:21:00] Statistical Literacy
+ Alex emphasises the need for statistical literacy from an early age and practical ways to teach it.
* [00:23:00] Balancing Data and Anecdotes
+ How to effectively use stories and data to make informed decisions.
* [00:25:00] Encouraging Cognitive Diversity
+ The value of different perspectives in decision-making processes and organisational settings.
* [00:29:00] Flaws in Consultant Research
+ Critique of research produced by consultancies like McKinsey and the difference between advocacy and genuine scientific inquiry.
* [00:36:00] Limits of Cognitive Diversity
+ Discussing when it might be necessary to draw the line in accepting diverse viewpoints, especially in the context of misinformation.
* [00:41:00] Societal Solutions to Misinformation
+ Proposals for improving transparency in endorsements and the peer review process to combat misinformation.
* [00:46:00] Role of Gatekeepers
+ The diminishing role of traditional gatekeepers in the age of social media and the importance of self-regulation and critical thinking.
* [00:55:00] Ethical Presentation of Data
+ Encouraging ethical behaviour in the presentation of data and the potential for individuals to influence organisational culture positively.
* [00:59:00] Closing Remarks*
+ Christian wraps up the conversation, highlighting the key takeaways from the discussion and thanking Alex for his insights.
Key Quotes:* "Misinformation has always been around, but the ease with which it spreads today is unprecedented." * "The goal is not to enslave the reader to think like a statistician but to allow them to live more freely by being discerning with information."
Resources Mentioned:* Book: "May Contain Lies: How Stories, Statistics, and Studies Exploit Our Biases and What We Can Do About It" by Alex Edmans * Website: maycontainlies.com
Follow Alex Edmans:* Twitter/X * LinkedIn
Subscribe & Follow:* To discover episodes of the show you might have missed, visit the show's website * Follow Christian on Twitter and LinkedIn.
What is the Rainbow Ceiling, and why does it matter?
On this episode, I’m speaking to the author of a new book that explains the significance and the ways we can help to remove it.
A rainbow ceiling is similar to a glass ceiling, a metaphor for the various structural barriers that hold down women or minority groups as they try to climb the career ladder and prevent them from reaching top jobs—but applied to LGBTQ+ people.
It’s a rainbow partly because it symbolises LGBTQ+ people but also because the concept of the arc of a rainbow suggests that different people are affected in different ways.
If, like me, you’re straight, you might not ever have given much thought to what it’s like to be LGBTQ+ and why those who are can find life more difficult.
My guest, Dr Layla McCay, is the author of a brand new book called ‘Breaking the Rainbow Ceiling: How LGBTQ+ people can thrive and succeed at work’
As you’ll hear, although this is ostensibly a book to help LGBTQ+ people, it’s also incredibly insightful for everyone else.
That is why I wanted to get Layla onto the show. In reading it, I had some revelations: I recognised that I didn’t really understand some of the challenges faced by LGBTQ+ people.
I figured that if that applied to me, it might apply to others as well. But my revelations went further than a lack of understanding.
I also came to realise that I had often inadvertently either helped to foster a work environment that wasn’t as inclusive as it could have been or not done simple things that I could have done to make it.
I think inclusion is important, not just because it’s the right thing to do but also because by excluding people, we’re not getting the best out of everyone or the cognitive diversity we really need.
Topics
On the show, we explore:
* What the Rainbow Ceiling is and how it manifests itself;
* How everyday business practices, such as business travel, pose unique challenges and discomfort for LGBTQ+ professionals;
* Why many LGBTQ+ people are forced to go ‘back into the closet’ at work, and what impact that has;
* The challenges of ‘coming out’ at work;
* How policies can unintentionally exclude LGBTQ+ people, and what we can do to make them more inclusive;
* The importance of visible symbols of support; the transformative power of LGBTQ+ visibility in leadership;
And much, much more.
Resources
Layla’s book “Breaking The Rainbow Ceiling’: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/breaking-the-rainbow-ceiling-9781399410762/
Layla on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/LaylaMcCay
Her NHS profile: https://www.nhsconfed.org/people/dr-layla-mccay
For more on what LGBTQ+ means: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-does-lgbtq-mean-5069804
A crash course on LGBTQ+: https://www.cps.edu/globalassets/cps-pages/services-and-supports/health-and-wellness/healthy-cps/healthy-environment/lgbtq-supportive-environments/key-terms-for-understanding-lgbtq-identities.pdf
What can we learn from artists about decision-making? More than you might think.
We often see decision-making in binary terms and whether decisions are good or bad. But what if they’re more subjective and akin to the way an artist looks at the world? That’s what my guest explores in her new book.
That guest is Elspeth Kirkman, Chief Programme Officer at the innovation agency Nesta and a Visiting Senior Research Fellow at King's College London's Policy School and Exeter University's Business School. She works at the intersection of design, data, and experimentation to solve societal problems.
Elspeth’s book ‘Decisionscape’ explores how the decisions we make are influenced by a variety of factors, many of which are personal to each of us.
In our discussion, we explore:
* Elspeth’s career and work;
* What Decisionscapes are and how using an artistic lens can help us to understand how and why we make decisions;
* How factors like social capital can lead people to make seemingly counter-intuitive decisions;
* Parallels between the creative process in writing and decision-making;
* the impact of everyday choices on life's narrative and long-term happiness;
* the significance of small, habitual decisions in shaping our lives;
* the concept of counterfactual thinking and finding contentment in reality;
* the enjoyment of making decisions, even without complete information;
* why embracing imperfection in decision-making can help us live more satisfied lives
and much, much more.
Links to topics we discuss during the show
The Green Day concert where the audience sings Bohemian Rhapsody - https://youtu.be/cZnBNuqqz5g?si=SSkpKTIZ1OVv4qfn
Oliver Burkeman’s Book ‘Four Thousand Weeks’ - https://www.oliverburkeman.com/books
Pablo Picasso’s Picture of a Bull - https://drawpaintacademy.com/the-bull/
Links to Elspeth and her work
Decisionscape - https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262048941/decisionscape/
Behavioural Insights, the book she co-authored with Michael Hallsworth - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/647522/behavioral-insights-by-michael-hallsworth-and-elspeth-kirkman/
Elspeth’s work at Nesta - https://www.nesta.org.uk/team/elspeth-kirkman/
Her profile on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/elspethkirkman
Twitter/X - https://twitter.com/Karminker
Previous episodes of the show
I have featured topics related to decision-making in many episodes of the show, which are available at www.humanriskpodcast.com.
Two recent episodes of particular relevance are my discussions with:
Dr Melina Moleskis - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-melina-moleskis-on-decision-making-part-one/
and
Ben Cattaneo - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ben-cattaneo-on-decision-making-part-two/
What makes us more or less likely to comply with rules or laws? My guest, Benjamin Van Rooij, knows all about this subject.
He is a Professor of Law and Society at the University of Amsterdam who researches and writes about behavioural law; in other words, the impact laws have on human behaviour and the behavioural science behind law. This is Benjamin’s fifth appearance on the show, which tells you that he’s incredibly engaging and insightful.
I invited Benjamin to come back onto the show to discuss his latest research project on the ‘Obligation to Obey’; the question of whether we feel obliged to comply with Rules or the Law, simply because they are Rules or the Law.
We did talk about that and some of his other research. But we also got into a much wider conversation about Compliance — what it’s there to do and the behavioural drivers behind it — and fascinatingly, some insights into Benjamin’s own propensity to comply, what drives his intellectual curiosity and his observations about Compliance In The Wild.
In our discussion, we explored:* The Roots and Evolution of Compliance; * Why it can be hard to prove the effectiveness of Compliance programs; * The difference between Reactive vs. Preventive Compliance; * How Compliance Functions are evolving; * Why Behavioural Science, Testing and Experimentation are important in meeting Compliance objectives; * How and Why Social Norms can drive Compliance: * How curiosity and challenge can benefit Compliance;
And much, much more.
Resources
To find out more about Benjamin and his research, visit his faculty page.
You can listen to the previous episodes of the show in which we discussed:
To hear his four previous appearances on the show:
COVID Compliance
The Behavioral Code which explores the book of the same name, which he co-authored with Dr Adam Fine.
Compliance 2.0
Measuring Compliance, where we discussed the book of the same name that he co-authored with Professor Melissa Rorie.
What goes into human decision-making? If you listened to the previous episode of the show with Dr Melina Moleskis on decision-making, then you’ll know what’s coming next. If you didn’t, then don’t worry; you can listen to that after this.
My guest on this episode is Ben Cattaneo, a friend of the show and the founder of The Decision-Making Studio, a startup that helps clients to make better decisions.
In our discussion, we pick up some of the themes I discussed with Melina and explore others. Since Ben’s background is in risk — he hosts the All Things Risk podcast — we explore how, in an uncertain world, making good decisions is critical.
On the episode, you'll hear about:
* Ben's experiences of founding The Decision Making Studio;
* the importance of integrating human elements into decision-making processes;
* the FOCUS framework for improving decision quality;
* the need to blend art and science in making decisions;
* the flaws in classic MBA case studies for teaching decision-making and the benefits of looking at less-known examples for deeper insights;
* the need to shift towards embracing uncertainty as a natural part of decision-making;
* the complexity and importance of decision-making in both personal and organizational contexts.
and much more.
Resources Part One of this series with Dr Melina Moleskis on Decision-Making: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-melina-moleskis-on-decision-making-part-one/
Blockbuster Netflix story: https://finshots.in/archive/the-incredible-netflix-story-you-didnt-know/
Comedian Des Bishop on Mindfulness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU_wLC0NlgU
James Clear on Tattoos, Haircuts & Hats: https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1/february-1-2024
You can find Ben via his Decision Making Studio website: https://thedecisionmaking.studio/
Ben’s All Things Risk podcast is available on all platforms and here: https://www.allthingsrisk.co.uk/
The episode of his show featuring Paula Reid who cycled across Ukraine: https://www.allthingsrisk.co.uk/2024/04/02/ep-215-paula-reid-on-cycling-across-ukraine/
The Decision-Making Studio https://thedecisionmaking.studio/
Ben’s Decision Reaction Videos are available via his account on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-cattaneo/
The specific episodes he refers to on the show:
Mark Gilmour’s race in Morocco: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ben-cattaneo_decisionmaking-decisionreactions-activity-7183537246388518912-jBQR?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
The movie ‘Gung Ho’: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ben-cattaneo_decisionmaking-activity-7155084173228077056-iX2H?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
Relevant episodes of the Human Risk podcast:
Ben on ‘All Things Risk': https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/all-things-human-risk-crosscast/
Alison Taylor on 'Doing The Right Thing': https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alison-taylor-on-doing-the-right-thing/
Professor Bent Flyvbjerg on 'How Big Things Get Done': https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-bent-flyvbjerg-on-how-big-things-get-done/
What is decision science, and how can it help us to make better decisions?
On this episode, I'm joined by decision-making expert Dr Melina Moleskis, who explains how she combines decision science and behavioural science to help her clients make better decisions.
In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore:
* how decision-making education is often overlooked in schools and businesses;
* why decisions are swayed by various behavioural factors and how we can recognise them;
* the power of AI to help provide alternative perspectives and aid decision-making;
* the importance of judging decisions by process, not outcome;
* why we should celebrate and learn from failure;
* the importance of practising decision-making
and much, much more.
Resources
To find out more about Melina, her company Meta Decisions and her wonderful newsletter: https://www.meta-decisions.com/
Melina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinamoleskis/
My post on British Airways' 'Mistake of the Month' policy: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/humanrisk_ethics-compliance-speakup-activity-7151475397551902720-j3OW?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
What is it that makes a job enjoyable and fulfilling? While you’re likely to have your own very individual answers to that question, chances are it’ll be to do with what you’re required to do, how much freedom you have, whether you think it’s worthwhile and how well it plays to your skillsets and interests.
Yet, all too often, companies focus more on profit and less on creating environments that truly allow people to flourish. My guest on this episode, Philippa White, thinks things can be done differently.
She’s the founder of TIE Leadership and the author of a brand new book, Return on Humanity: Leadership lessons from all corners of the world. In her work and in her book, she argues that it’s possible and desirable to chart a new course—one that recognizes our shared humanity as the ultimate driver of innovation, resilience, and satisfaction in the workplace. If that sounds idealistic, it is, but it’s also realistic.
In our discussion, we explore:
* Philippa's career and what led her to do what she does now, including a fascinating story about a member of her own family;
* How experiential learning can help people to recognise their own strengths and weaknesses;
* The TIE leadership approach and the benefits this brings;
* Why leadership that focuses on humans over profits is more sustainable and will yield better results;
And much, much more.
Links
To discover more about Phillippa, TIE Leadership, and her book 'Return on Humanity': www.tieleadership.com
To hear her TIE Unearthed podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/tie-unearthed/id1521035846
Ernesto Soroli's TED Talk on the Italians and the Zambian Hippos: https://www.ted.com/talks/ernesto_sirolli_want_to_help_someone_shut_up_and_listen?language=en
Why do we lie and cheat and why might it not always be a bad thing?
On this episode, I’m speaking to a research professor who has studied lying and cheating in the natural world and what we can learn about it in the human world.
My guest, Dr Lixing Sun is a Research Professor in the Department of Biological Sciences at Central Washington University. While his research focuses on biology, his interests are in connecting behaviour, evolution, psychology, and economics.
In his latest book, The Liars of Nature and the Nature of Liars, Lixing explores how nature is rife with cheating and, perhaps surprisingly, how dishonesty has given rise to diversity.
By exploring how everything from microscopic organisms to highly intelligent birds and mammals engage in lying and deception he explains how cheating in nature relies on basic rules which also apply to humans.
In his book and in our discussion, Lixing explains the prevalence of cheating in human society and identifies the kinds of cheating that spur innovation and cultural vitality and lays down a blueprint for combatting malicious cheating such as fake news and disinformation.
Resources
Lixing’s faculty page: https://www.cwu.edu/academics/biology/directory/lixing-sun.php
Lixing on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lixing-sun-7ba5067/
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/LSun5
His book ‘The Liars of Nature and the Nature of Liars’: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691198606/the-liars-of-nature-and-the-nature-of-liars
The Psychology Today article he referred to on the show:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/lies-and-deception/202311/how-to-outsmart-yourself
What prompted a courageous former employee of Harvey Weinstein to break her Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA)?
On this episode I'm speaking to a campaigner who came to prominence as the individual who broke the silence surrounding the misconduct of Harvey Weinstein. Formerly an assistant to Weinstein, Zelda Perkins made headlines when she came forward with allegations of sexual harassment against him.
In the late 1990s, she signed an NDA, as part of a settlement which for years prevented her from speaking out about her experiences. However, motivated by the emergence of other allegations against Weinstein and the rise of the MeToo campaign, Zelda chose to break her silence and speak publicly about her experiences and the culture of secrecy enabled by NDAs
.
Her story has been pivotal in the global discussion about sexual harassment in the workplace, the misuse of power, and the legal and ethical implications of non-disclosure agreements. Zelda is the co founder of Can't Buy My Silence, a campaign group that is committed to end the misuse of NDAs to buy victims silence.
In our discussion, we discuss Zelda’s experiences, what motivated her to break the NDA, what drives her campaigning, and what it’s like to be at the heart of a new story.
You'll hear about the stresses and strains and her experience of something that nothing can really prepare you for. It's one of the most revealing discussions I've ever had on this show, with insights that are relevant to whistleblowing, transparency, campaigning, and the way organizations and society treat those who dare to speak up about injustice or wrongdoing.
Links
Zelda on Twitter/X
The Can’t Buy My Silence campaign, including resources for those being asked to sign NDAs or who are already subject to them.
The FT article Zelda mentions in our discussion: https://www.ft.com/content/1dc8a8ae-b7e0-11e7-8c12-5661783e5589
The NYTimes article Zelda refers to: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/harvey-weinstein-harassment-allegations.html
An interview Zelda gave to The Guardian newspaper: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/23/zelda-perkins-there-will-always-be-men-like-weinstein-all-i-can-do-is-try-to-change-the-system-that-enables-them
How, in a world of limited resources, can we prioritise risk? Which ones should we focus on more than others?
This isn't just something we need to think about in a work context. It also applies to our personal lives; where should we spend our money, time and headspace?
My guest is a friend of the show who has appeared four times before (links below).
Professor Magda Osman is a Professor of Basic & Applied Decision-Making at Leeds Business School. She's a psychologist by training, with a specific interest in decision-making under risk and uncertainty, folk beliefs in the unconscious, as well as an interest in examining the effectiveness of methods of behavioural change.
In our discussion, we explore:
* why we need to prioritise risk and the challenges of doing so;
* the benefits of group wisdom, and the reasons we might not always find it;
* the risks posed by a need to drive for consensus;
* how social dynamics influence decision-making;
* the power of cognitive diversity
and much, much more.
To find out more about Magda, her research and her work, visit her website. You can also find her on LinkedIn.
To hear previous episodes of the show featuring Magda (in the order they were recorded):
'On Behavioural Interventions that Fail'
'On Unconscious Bias - what is it & can we train people to not display it?'
'On Compliance, Coercion & Competence'
'On Misinformation'
How can we make better decisions? By paying attention to good advice or information and ignoring the opposite. In a world where we're overloaded with data and opinions, it can be hard to determine what is good and what is bad advice.
My guest Nuala Walsh, is the author of a new book called 'Tune In! How to make smarter decisions in a noisy world'. In it, she highlights how we make decisions and the risks of using the wrong information to make them. What are the risks of mishearing, misinformation and misjudgement, and what can we do to pay attention to helpful inputs and ignore unhelpful ones?
In our discussion, we explore:
* Nuala's unique expertise in behavioural science, investment, and consulting
* How her book "Tune In" focuses on making smart decisions amid information overload
* The significance of personal and professional stories in shaping decision-making
* How Cognitive biases and 'decision friction' affect our judgment
* The balance between intuition and deliberate thought in ethical decisions
* Corporate speed in decision-making vs. the importance of careful deliberation
* The 'trilogy of error'—blind spots, deaf spots, and dumb spots—in perception.
* 'Perimeter traps' that represent pitfalls in judgment and decision-making
* Nuala's personal transformation through writing and its impact on legacy;
* Practical advice on applying smarter decision-making in everyday life.
and much, much more.
To learn more about Nuala, her work and 'Tune In': https://www.nualagwalsh.com/
What does storytelling have to do with managing risk? On this episode, I’m speaking to novelist, playwright, and screenwriter Preethi Nair. She also helps people who want to tell their stories to identify the one that will resonate and tell them in the best possible way.
We all know the power of storytelling. It’s how we learn as kids and how we share information as adults. The risk angle here is that if we want people to do the things we want them to do, and not do the things we don’t, then stories are a powerful tool in persuading them.
In our discussion, we explore:
* What makes a great story;
* Why storytelling matters;
* Why we can often find it hard to tell the right stories;
* What we can do to identify the stories we could and should be telling;
* How Preethi came to be a storyteller;
And much, much more. Including, of course, Preethi’s own story.
Additional Episode
If you enjoy this episode, then I also recommend listening to my discussion with James Victore on “Creative Courage’. James helps people (in his words) to ‘get paid to do what they love’. Many of the topics we discussed here chime with that discussion. You’ll find it here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/james-victore-on-creative-courage/
Links
To find out more about Preethi, her books and her consulting work - https://preethinair.com/
Preethi on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/preethi-nair-author-keynote-speaker-md-29471a4/
The NYTimes ‘Significant Objects’ study - https://significantobjects.com/
The Encyclopaedia Britannica - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica
What can business learn from improvisation? If you listened to the previous episode of the shwo, you'll know the answer. If you haven't yet done so, then I recommend dojgn that before listening to this. Because this is Part Two of my discussion with Heather Urquhart and it lfows naturally on from Part One.
Meet Heather Urqhuhart
My guest Heather Urquhart is a professional improviser who not only performs improv but also works to help busineses to manage uncertainty and drive creativity via her firm 'And Also Improv'.
In Part Two of our discussion, we look at the behind the scenes of improv.
How can an improv compoany have a code of conduct?
How do you design rules for a business that is about creativity?
Why is it so difficult for people to say 'I don't know'.
And much more.
This is Part Two of a two part discussion. Part One is here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-one/
Links
The moment when Hollywood Director Michael Bay leaves the stage during a launch event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=R4rMy1iA268
Heather’s website: https://www.heatherurquhart.co.uk/
Her company ‘And Also’ Improv: https://andalsoimprov.com/
The MayDays, the Improv troop that heather is part of: https://www.themaydays.co.uk/speaker/heather-urquhart/
'Showstoppers The Musical': https://showstopperthemusical.com/
What can business learn from improvisation? On the face of it, a form of entertainment that involves making things up as you go along, seems to be filled with human risk and not at all helpful in the business world.
But actually, the skills that improvisers use to entertain us, are incredibky useful in businesses to drive better decision-making, The techniques that allow them to respond to unexpecte situations or come up with creative ideas, are incredibly helpful in a business context.
Having previously explored some of the dynamics of improv with Comedy Store director, author and perfomer Neil Mullarkey, I wanted to dive a little deeper into the subject.
Meet Heather Urqhuhart
My guest on this episode Heather Urquhart is a professional improviser who not only performs improv but also works to help busineses to manage uncertainty and drive creativity via her firm 'And Also Improv'.
In our discussion, we look how the dynamics inherent in improv can help to improce the quality of decision-making and ideas within businesses.
Amongst other things, we look at how active listening, a non-judgmental approach to creative ideas can transform all aspects of an organization, not just the traditionally 'creative' ones.
True to the theme, Heather and I set out on our conversation with an open agenda. Not only did that take us to some intesting and unexpected places, but it also meant that we just kept going. So much so, that there’s too much for just one episode.
So, this is Part one of a two part discussion. Part Two is coming soon.
Links
My previous discussion with Neil Mullarkey: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/neil-mullarkey-on-being-in-the-moment/
Heather’s website: https://www.heatherurquhart.co.uk/
Her company ‘And Also’ Improv: https://andalsoimprov.com/
The MayDays, the Improv troop that heather is part of: https://www.themaydays.co.uk/speaker/heather-urquhart/
'Showstoppers The Musical': https://showstopperthemusical.com/
What is burnout, and how can we prevent it?
We're increasingly hearing about the idea of 'burnout', which the World Health Organisation has defined as a condition "resulting from chronic workplace stress that has not been successfully managed". Recent high profile resignations, including Jacinda Ardern the former PM of New Zealand and Jürgen Klopp, the Manager of Liverpool Football Club — both citing not having enough energy to continue to do their jobs — are merely illustrative of a dyanmic that can impact us all.
On this episode, I'm speaking to Sabrina Ahmed, who helps people to manage the risks of burnout using art, creativity, curiosity and playfullness.
In our discussion, we explore:
* the signs and causes of burnout;
* how burnout can impact the self-employed, as much as the employed;
* the benefits of art, creativity, curiosity and playfeullness in combatting the effects of burnout;
* how aligning our personal values ith our professional lives can help mitigate burnout;
* the power of job crafting
and much,much more.
Sabrina Ahmed
To find out more about Sabirna and the owrk that she does visit her website https://openintrovert.com/
You can find her on Twitter/X at: https://twitter.com/sabrinacoaching
Sabrina's Substack blog: https://sabrinaahmed.substack.com/
What is Healthcare Coaching?
If I say the word ‘doctor’ to you — in a medical, not academic, sense— you’ll probably think of someone in a white coat with a stethoscope who makes medical assessments and prescribes treatments and drugs to patients. Which, of course, is what they do do
But a word that probably wouldn’t come to mind when you think of doctors is ‘coach’. Yet, that’s the role that my guest on this episode, Dr Ollie Hart, thinks is a key part of helping patients live longer, healthier lives. Having worked as a general practitioner in the UK’s NHS National Health Service, Ollie realised that in many cases, what would help patients weren’t prescriptions but rather the kind of support that you might, in other contexts, expect from coaches
He’s the co-founder of a Healthcare Coaching business that seeks to empower patients as part of the support they receive. As you’ll hear, he’s not suggesting coaching as a replacement for all forms of medical treatment, but for certain conditions, supporting patients through coaching can be incredibly powerful in increasing overall well-being.
In our discussion, we explore Ollie’s medical career, how he came to see the value in healthcare coaching and how and where it can help patients. As well, of course, where it is less effective.
As you’ll hear, several decades ago — let’s not worry about exactly how many — Ollie and I were classmates. And because one or two of our teachers liked to have the class sat in alphabetical order — presumably so they didn’t need to memorise anyone’s name, we’d often sit next to each other.
Thanks to LinkedIn, we recently reconnected and got talking. In doing so, we realised that although we’re working in very different fields, the fundamental principle of thinking about the humans whose behaviour we’re trying to influence — in his case, in a medical context, in mine a compliance and ethics one — is identical, which is why I really wanted to get him onto the show.
I think this is a fascinating approach that illustrates how, if we want to solve problems — particularly those obviously relating to humans — where a behavioural approach of understanding what I refer to as ‘not how we would like people to behave, but how they are likely to behave’ can be really powerful. And not just in the medical field. The ideas Ollie is sharing have a much wider resonance.
Resources
To learn more about Ollie and his work:
Peak Health Coaching - www.peakhealthcoaching.com
Ollie on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ollie-hart-47669340/
Ollie on Twitter/X - https://twitter.com/peakhealthcoach
Other episode
If you liked this episode, then you might also be interested in:
Niall Downey, a cardiothoracic surgeon who became an airline pilot - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/niall-downey-on-mistakes/
Dr Gordon Caldwell on medical bureaucracy - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-gordon-caldwell-on-medical-bureaucracy/
How can businesses do the right thing? What does that even mean and why does or should it matter?
What is Business Ethics?
Business ethics used to be a case of dealing with things like bribery and fraud, which companies tried to — and often did — manage with rules and processes. But nowadays, in a world where every employee and consumer has the ability to go viral on social media, it’s a much harder dynamic to manage.
Businesses are under increasing scrutiny, not just for their business practices and supply chains but also for their position on issues such as racial injustice and quality.
The idea that they’re simply there to maximise shareholder value, while not breaking the law is no longer a tenable approach.
Meet Alison Taylor
My guest on this episode is Alison Taylor. She’s a friend of the show — this is her third appearance (links to the previous two below).
Alison is a Clinical Associate Professor at NYU-Stern School of Business and Executive Director of Ethical Systems. She has spent the past two decades consulting with multinational companies on risk, anti-corruption, sustainability, human rights, culture and behaviour, stakeholder engagement, ESG, and ethics and compliance.
She is also the author of a brand new book out this week called ‘Higher Ground: How Business Can Do The Right Thing In A Turbulent World’.
What We Discuss
In our discussion, we explore:
* what inspired Alison to write the book;
* how she went about it;
* the parallels between corporate and personal decision-making;
* what she learned in writing it;
* the balance between profit, sustainability, and social/political responsibility.;
* the challenges of promoting diversity within organizations.
and much, much more.
Links
To find out more about Alison, her work at NYU and Ethical Systems and her book ‘Higher Ground’ visit her website: www.alisontaylor.co
To hear the previous epsiodes of the show featuring Alison talking about:
Ethics: what is it, why does it matter? 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alison-taylor-on-ethics-/
ESG: Environmental, Social & Governance 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alison-taylor-on-environmental-social-governance/
What happens when a surgeon decides to become an airline pilot? You get some amazing insights into mistakes, how they happen and what we can do to mitigate them.
That surgeon and now pilot is my guest Niall Downey. He’s also the author of a book called ‘Oops! Why Things Go Wrong’: Understanding and Controlling Error’
He began his career as a doctor, where he becaeme a cardiothoracic surgeon. After twelve years of medical training, Niall decided to change course and retrained as an airline pilot with Aer Lingues, initially combining aviation with medicine by working as an Accident and emergency doctor before focusing full-time on aviation.
If there’s one industry that knows how to manage risk, it’s airlines. While there might be issues with things like luggage and IT failure, when it comes to safety in the skies, the airline industry has a very good track record, particularly when we consider the number of planes in the sky at any one time. Niall has made it his mission to bring the methods aliens use to mitigate risk into the medical world.
In our discussion, we explore:
* Niall’s career and what led him into medicine and then the airline industry:
* The similarities and differences of risks and risk management in the two sectors;
* How airlines and the medical profession react to mistakes;
* The importance of a just culture and psychological safety supported by regulators in getting people to speak up;
* How simplifying reporting processes can make it more likely people will report things;
* The ‘Swiss Cheese’ model for risk management;
* The realities of being a pilot and the importance of having two in the cockpit;
* Niall’s thoughts on what medicine and healthcare can learn from the airline industry;
* How checklists can reduce errors
and much, much more.
Resources
To learn more about:
Niall on Social Media
Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/nialldowney
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niall-downey-84abb433?originalSubdomain=uk
Niall’s firm Framework Health: http://frameworkhealth.net/
Niall’s book ‘Oops! Why Things Go Wrong’: Understanding and Controlling Error’ Liffey Press (publisher): https://theliffeypress.com/oops-why-things-go-wrong-by-niall-downey.html
What happens when companies outside financial services are required to comply with regulations such as AML (Anti-Money Laundering)? As we all know from our personal experiences of banks that want to verify who we are and where money is coming from or going to, the rules are complex. That’s challenging enough if you’re a bank. But if you’re an art dealer, a real estate agent or someone else working in the field of high-value goods, that’s even harder. Particularly if the rules aren’t something you’re familiar with.
My guest on this episode, Solène Clément, is a lawyer who supports clients in this space in meeting their regulatory obligations in a pragmatic way. That doesn’t mean not complying with the rules or bending them. It means bringing the gap between regulatory objectives and the practicalities of delivering them on the ground.
She’s also the President of the Anti-Money Laundering Observatory, a body that seeks to get regulators to understand the practical challenges of their regulations and those subject to them to improve their knowledge and understanding of them.
To find out more about Solène and her work, visit: https://clementavocats.com/
For more on the Anti-Money Laundering Observatory (OLAB): https://clementavocats.com/index.php/accueil/olab/
Authenticity is often praised, and inauthenticity is criticised. We want people to be themselves. But what happens if the society we’re in isn’t supportive or even hostile toward who we really are? Or we don’t yet know. That’s the challenge facing many LGBTQ+ people in relation to coming out.
It’s the subject of a brand new book called ‘Countless Sleepless Nights’ which tells the real-life stories of people who, because of their sexuality, have had to or are dealing with the challenges of whether, how and when to come out. Not just people who live in societies where they have rights but also those living in regimes where being honest about your sexuality risks being imprisoned or killed.
The book’s author is Carina Maggar, and she’s my guest on this episode. Carina is a creative copywriter who has been on the show before talking about her first book ‘How To Make Work Not Suck’. The book came about because Carina is herself gay and had her own coming out experience.
I’m fascinated by this subject on a number of levels. As a straight man, I’ve never had to contend with the challenge of coming out and what that means. Yet it’s a very common experience, and I think it’s helpful to have an appreciation of what others are going through. I hope this episode can make those of us who have no experience of coming out to be more empathetic towards those who are or might go through it.
Then there’s a human risk angle. If we want to get the best out of everyone — either societally or in a work context — then we need to be inclusive and not have people having to pretend they’re something they’re not. Spending your entire life being unable to be honest is debilitating, and it doesn’t bring the best out of anyone. Finally, and most importantly, it’s about shining a light on the fact that some people can’t be who they really are, and their lives are in danger as a result. That’s not right, and we need to talk about it.
Resources
To learn more about Carina and her first book ‘How To Make Work Not Suck’ go to her website: https://www.carinamaggar.com/
To order ‘Countless Sleepless Nights’: https://www.laurenceking.com/products/countless-sleepless-nights
To hear Carina’s previous appearance on the show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/carina-maggar-on-how-to-make-work-not-suck/
What’s the most effective way to manage cyber risk? The obvious answer is to have more sophisticated security systems. My guest on this episode thinks the answer is humans.
That’s because behind every cyber attack, there is a human, and the biggest point of vulnerability within an organisation is its humans. If we can better understand humans and how they behave, we can be more effective at managing cyber risk.
That’s the view of my guest on this episode, Sarah Armstrong-Smith. She’s the Chief Security Advisor at Microsoft and a leading expert in the cybersecurity space.
She's also the author of a brilliant new book called Understanding the Cyber Attacker Mindset, in which she explores the human dynamics behind cyber attacks. In other words, why do the people who launch cyberattacks do so? If we can understand that, we can start to focus on the root cause of the problem.
In our discussion, we explore:
* The crucial role human behaviour plays in cybersecurity;
* The emotional and psychological aspects that can affect an organization's digital defences.
* Why organisations need a cybersecurity strategy that is people-focused and considers the motivations of cyber attackers.
* The importance of recognizing the internal cultural dynamics within an organization that may inadvertently aid cyber attackers;
* How cognitive diversity can reinforce cyber defences.
* How societal and cultural influences contribute to the ecosystem of cybercrime.
* Why victim-blaming when it comes to cyber attacks is counter-productive
* How phishing campaigns that punish those who fail tests are a bad idea;
* The Seven Sins of Cyber Crime;
* The benefits of fostering a supportive workplace culture.
And much much more.
To learn more and to pre-order Sarah’s new book ‘Understand the Cyber Attacker Mindset: Build a Strategic Security Programme to Counteract Threats’: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Understand-Cyber-Attacker-Mindset-Counteract/dp/1398614289#
You can find Sarah:
On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-armstrong-smith
On Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/SarahASmith75
What determines the price of an item or service? How can we price things so that people want to buy them but also so that we feel it’s fair? Whether (like me) you’re in business and have to sell, or you’re negotiating a salary or looking to buy or sell a house or a car, pricing matters.
My guest on this episode, Melina Palmer, is the author of a new book, The Truth About Pricing: How to Apply Behavioral Economics So Customers Buy (Value Based Pricing, What Your Buyer Values).
She’s also the host of the Brainy Business podcast and has been on the show before (links below).
Topics
In our discussion, we explore:
* What makes effective pricing strategies in business and our personal lives;
* How psychology influences customer purchase decisions;
* The importance of storytelling and anchoring effects on price perception;
* How brand perception impacts the perceived value of products;
* Why a grilled cheese sandwich might be worth $214;
* How heuristics and cognitive biases help and hinder us as we buy and selling;
* The Challenges and complexities of pricing in the digital age; and
* The relationship between price and identity and how we value items we purchase.
and much, much more
Links
To find out more about Melina’s Brainy Business podcast and her work as a speaker, coach and trainer visit thebrainybusiness.com
To download free sample chapters from her books at brainy business.com/human risk
Find her on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinapalmer/
To her her previous apparenace on this show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/melina-palmer-on-using-behavioural/
On the show, we referred to:
The book Blindsight: The (Mostly) Hidden Ways Marketing Reshapes Our Brains* by Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/52225003
* The $214 Grileld Cheese Sandwich: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/25/most-expensive-grilled-cheese-in-the-world-from-serendipity-3.html
* The Virgin Mary sandwich: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article223941560.html
What drives the choices we make, and how can we influence the choices that others make?
On this episode, I’m speaking to an expert in human decision-making. Richard Shotton is a behavioural science practitioner who has written two best-selling books, ‘ The Choice Factory’ and ‘The Illusion of Choice’.
Having begun his career in marketing, Richard now helps companies apply behavioural science to solve problems, particularly, as the titles of his books imply, when it comes to influencing the choices people make.
During our discussion, we talk about:
Richard’s career that led him to found Astroten*, his own behavioural science practice;
* the wonderful story of how the company got its name
* how the appliance of behavioural science can help solve business
* Examples of Richard’s approach to doing research and how those can be applied in any context;
* how companies can efficiently run experiments to see what works and what doesn’t
* some of the critical behavioural dynamics relevant to Richard’s work, which he explores in his books.
And much, much more.
What I love about listening to Richard is that he’s not just sharing his deep technical knowledge in ways that are easy to digest; he’s also very good at coming up with practical ideas for how to deploy Behavioural Science to meet objectives. And he’s great fun to talk to.
Links
Richard and his company Astroten- https://www.astroten.co.uk/
Find him on Twitter/X - https://x.com/rshotton?
and on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-shotton/
Richard’s first book ‘The Choice Factory’ - https://www.astroten.co.uk/the-choice-factory
His latest book ‘The Illusion of Choice’ - https://www.harriman-house.com/illusionofchoice
The ‘Astroten’ Hofling Hospital Experiment - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofling_hospital_experiment
The ‘Stolen Thunder Effect’ - https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/effects-stealing-thunder-criminal-and-civil-trials
An example of Zanussi’s Appliance Of Science ad campaign - https://youtu.be/DWbnxCe9xFc?si=wnaabpZrzMUA8kNc
The Keat’s heuristic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyme-as-reason_effect
The McGlone & Tofighbaksh Experiment - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0304422X99000030
Monadic Testing - https://conjointly.com/blog/what-is-monadic-testing/
Professor Robert Cialdini’s research on the Petrified Wood Forest in Arizona - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15534510500181459
How can we manage people who are doing creative work? On the one hand, letting someone do what they want feels incredibly risky. On the other hand, creativity requires a degree of freedom, experimentation and agency.
That’s a particular problem in the creative fields, but it’s also a broader challenge. In the 21st century, the jobs people are doing are increasingly ones that require some element of creativity.
Creativity is that it doesn’t always lend itself to being managed in traditional ways. Unlike setting someone a task where they slavishly need to follow instructions, creative tasks require a different form of supervision. The challenge with that is that as organisations try to mitigate the risk of creative activities, it’s very easy to end up in situations where responsibility is transferred for the creative task, but the requisite amount of control to deliver it isn’t.
My guest is David Meikle. He’s a consultant to the advertising market, where he helps companies to be more effective at hiring and managing advertising agencies. To learn more about David and his books visit https://tuningup.co.uk/
Links to topics we discuss:
The podcast where Jon Evans interviews Dr Ian McGilchriest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY89D1UC9Dw
Iain’s website: https://channelmcgilchrist.com/
The Hamlet cigar advertisements (14:55) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqN7RNeitw
The Sainsbury’s Mog The Cat advertisement (18:15): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuRn2S7iPNU
The Cadbury gorilla advertisement (18:18): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La7B8mBnTXs
The Ocean Spray advertisement (19:28): https://www.thedrum.com/news/2020/10/07/ocean-spray-finally-reacts-viral-skateboarding-tiktok
Orlando Wood of System One Group: https://system1group.com/team/orlando-wood
Anthony Bourdain’s Kitchen Confidential: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Confidential_(book)
Blair Enn’s Win Without Pitching Manifesto: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/the-manifesto/
Why do we sometimes make bad decisions in relation to money and what can we do about it?
My guest, Vishal George, is a Behavioural Scientist who has recently published a book called ‘Money Mindsets: Science-Based Stories to Rewire your Money Beliefs, Goals, & Habits’.
In it, he explores that he way we behave when it comes to money, comes from beliefs about it, that we’ve adopted from our families, socio-cultural environment, and significant life events. They’re almost like scripts that are handed to us. Yet, often, we don't even know who the author is of our scripts.
What, asks Vishal, if we can rewrite our own money story?
The idea behind his book isn’t to change what we do with our money. Rather, it offers mindsets to change how we think about money. If we become aware of why we do what we do with our money, we can make sure our behaviours with it are aligned with our priorities.
Since many incidents of huamn risk are caused by money, this topic is perfect for the show.
In our discussion, we explore how Vishal came to write the book and what he hopes to acheive with it. I also get some thoughts from him on how this impacts his approach to business and what he’s learend from his reasearch. And he turns the tables and asks me a question.
Resources
To learn more about Vishal, his compnay ‘Behavioural By Design’ visit https://www.behaviouralbydesign.com/
For more on his book ‘Money Mindsets’ https://www.behaviouralbydesign.com/money-mindsets
To read about Diversifi, the global Behavioural Science practitioner network that both Human Risk and Behavioural By Design are part of, visit https://www.diversifiglobal.com/
Mount Taranki, the mountain Vishal is trying to climb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Taranaki
The Save The Change program that encourages saving: https://www.asb.co.nz/banking-with-asb/save-the-change.html
What do you think of when you hear the word 'error'? It's highly likely you'll think of it negatively as a defect. The obvious way to manage defects, particularly in safety-critical industries, is to have detailed procedures, strict compliance, and zero tolerance for errors. But we know that this doesn't always work. After all, if it did, we'd have far fewer errors.
My guest on this episode takes a different approach. He specializes in helping organizations, particularly safety-critical ones where the cost of getting something wrong can be death or injury, to reduce errors, improve safety and build trust. He calls this human reliability. His name is Dr. Jake Mazulewicz, and he's been a firefighter, an emergency medical technician and a military paratrooper.
Nowadays, he brings all of those experiences to bear in helping organizations design processes and cultures that allow humans to manage the complexities that don't always allow themselves to be neatly codified into standard procedures. As you'll hear, he's got some fascinating ideas about designing safety models that flex to meet the situation's needs.
Key Moments In The Show (mins:secs)
02:14 — Dr. Jake’s background
05:25 — Mechanistic vs. Adaptive systems
06:28 — The big problem: too many leaders treat ALL systems as Mechanistic systems
09:10 — What to say to a commercial pilot when you’re walking off their aircraft after the flight lands
10:40 — Four work guidance modes
11:00 — 1) Procedures
11:53 — 2) Guidelines like, “To find out what an organization values, follow the money."
13:00 — 3) Principles like “A jury doesn’t decide what to believe. A jury decides who to believe."
21:20 — 4) Tacit Knowledge — You can solve complex problems, but can’t explain how
26:40 — “All models are wrong, but some of them are useful.”
31:10 — How one team of electricians dramatically improved safety by using FEWER procedures
35:57 — Letter of the law vs. spirit of the law
38:20 — Have you heard of Philip K. Howard?... "Let’s pretend I haven’t.”
42:10 — We write rules when we don’t have enough trust
44:55 — Build trust by overcommunicating your intentions
45:25 — “Commander’s Intent” in military mission plans
47:55 — Listen for "Weak Signals" like hearing, “I’ll do whatever it takes…"
50:40 — Stay resilient by catching a system before it goes “exponential”
54:00 — Chris Argyris’ 17-word, 4-step recipe for creating a toxic work culture
57:10— A new Early Warning System
58:20 — Ask an expert, “What’s a 'Weak Signal' in your field, and what does it mean?”
1:04:55 — Why a non-punitive approach is so helpful and so uncommon
1:10:10 — How to get in touch with Dr. Jake — reliableorg.com
Further Information
To find out more about Praxtical Human Performance For Leaders visit www.reliableorg.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-mazulewicz/
What are museums, and what purpose do they serve? As a regular museum-goer — both when I’m travelling and also at home when I need distraction or creative inspiration — I’m always intrigued, both by what they show and how they show it.
If you’ve been following my Compliance In The Wild series on LinkedIn (example post here)
you’ll know that museums regularly feature as they often contain fabulous examples of Human Risk and the methods we use to mitigate it.My guest on this episode is Dr Freddie Mason, who is a Senior Creative Strategist at Bompass and Parr and the author of a report on the future of museums. The report explores what a museum is, or rather, what it could be.
Bompas & Parr are, in their own words, ‘a fully-fledged creative studio offering food and drink design, brand consultancy and immersive experiences across a diverse number of industries'. When they research something, it’s not your traditional piece of research because they also add creative flair to their findings.
Which is why, in the report and on the show, you’ll hear some fascinating insights, including:
* What purpose do museums serve?;
* Do museums need to be in physical locations;
* How could museums could be transformed into vibrant social spaces;
* What role can museums play as catalysts for societal issues;
* How virtual reality could provide immersive experiences in museums;
* The importance of providing inclusive environments in museums;
* How liminal spaces could be deployed as museums;
and much, much more.
Links
To learn more about Bompas & Parr: www.bompasandparr.com
The report we discuss: https://bompasandparr.com/case-study/future-of-p-leisure-2024/
Freddie’s book on Viscosity: https://punctumbooks.com/people/freddie-mason/
To hear Alix Cherobrier (then Hope) talking about the future of experiences on the show in 2020: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alix-hope-on-fluid-landscapes/
To hear Professor Tom Schoessler talking on the show about deploying Behavioural Science in a Museum: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-tom-schossler-on-deploying/
What is it like to grow up in a country that no longer exists?
That's the challenge faced by my guest Katja Hoyer. She grew up in the GDR, the German Democratic Republic. Or as most of us think of it, East Germany.
While most histories of the country focus on the political decision-making or things that are most extraordinary — for example, the Stasi, the East German secret police or dramatic escapes over the Berlin Wall — Katja wanted to write a more human history.
In her book 'Beyond The Wall' or 'Jenseits der Mauer' in German translation, Katja explores not only the politics of the country, but also what life was like for people within the country.
Since the book has been out for several months and there are lots of other shows on which you can hear about what's in it — though we do touch on a few human risk-relevant dynamics such as the challenges facing the Stasi in dealing with the information they gathered and the prevalence of paranoia within the country's leadership — I'm interested in the dynamics around the book, rather than the detail of what's in it.
You'll hear:
why a Germany history researcher is based in the UK, and not as you might expect Germany;
* what prompted Katja to write the book;
* the challenges of getting people to speak about the past;
* 'soul lag*' what happens when our bodies move faster than our souls
* the reactions to the book in Germany and elsewhere
* Weimar - the book that Katja is about to start writing.
and much, much more.
About Katja
Katja Hoyer is a German-British historian, journalist and the author of the widely acclaimed Blood and Iron. A visiting Research Fellow at King's College London and a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society, she is a columnist for the Washington Post and hosts the podcast The New Germany together with Oliver Moody. She was born in East Germany and is now based in the UK.
Beyond The Wall is published by Penguin books is available from all good bookstores:
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/447141/beyond-the-wall-by-hoyer-katja/9780241553787
Diesseits der Mauer is published ny Hoffmann und Kampe and is also available from all good bookstores: https://hoffmann-und-campe.de/products/63884-diesseits-der-mauer
Substack/Podcasts: to learn more about Katja's writings and podcasts: katjahoyer.uk
You can listen to 'The New Germany', the show she hosts with Oliver Moody here: https://koerber-stiftung.de/en/podcasts/history-politics/podcast-series-the-new-germany/
Social Media: You can follow Katja on Twitter/X here: https://twitter.com/hoyer_kat?
Her Kings College faculty page is: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/katja-hoyer
Podcasts where Katja discusses her book:
https://www.podbean.com/premium-podcast/travelsthroughtime/Ro9XbpH3jC2m
https://audioboom.com/posts/8275986-katja-hoyer-beyond-the-wall
https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/katja-hoyer-beyond-the-wall/
https://coldwarconversations.com/episode284/
https://www.spreaker.com/user/10740198/history-unplugged-beyond-the-wall-with-a
Dirk Oschmann's book 'Der Osten: eine Westdeutsche Erfingung'
https://www.ullstein.de/werke/der-osten-eine-westdeutsche-erfindung/hardcover/9783550202346
What is the Monday Revolution, and why do we need it?
On this episode, I'm speaking to someone who used to run a company that grabbed a lot of my attention during my teenage and younger years. That company was Capital Radio — at the time, London's largest radio station — and that person is David Mansfield.
After being CEO of Capital and its successor company, GCap Media, he went on to advise a number of other successful companies, including Carphone Warehouse and Game Group. Nowadays, as well as retaining roles within the radio industry, David is an investor, an accredited business coach, and an adviser to numerous companies. He's a Fellow of the Center for Evidence-Based Management and the Radio Academy and has been a Visiting Professor at the Bayes Business School in London and a Visiting Fellow at the University of Oxford.
The Monday Revolution is the title of David's book and the name of his mission to simplify business behaviour and provide executives of all ranks and company sizes with the tools and approach to get more done.
In our discussion, you’ll hear what the Monday Revolution is and why it’s’ called that. We explore David’s practical tips to making business more effective. We discuss risk management, how to empower staff, the benefits of asking the right questions in the right way, the importance of giving people agency and how to make better decisions.
To learn more about David and the Monday Revolution, visit https://themondayrevolution.com/
On the show, we also talk about:
James Clear's 'Atomic Habits' — https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits
Professor Daniel Kahneman - https://kahneman.scholar.princeton.edu/
How can lying earn you millions? If you’re an actor and good at impersonating people, then the answer is that you become a corporate spy.
That’s the unexpected career path followed by my guest Robert Kerbeck, whose memoir ‘Ruse: Lying the American Dream from Hollywood to Wall Street!’ tells the story of how it happened. And on this episode, he joins me to talk about some of the behavioural dynamics behind his fascinating life.
Robert didn’t grow up wanting to become a spy. He just wanted out of the family car business. An Ivy League education in his back pocket, he had a more noble profession in mind—to be an actor. But to support himself, he needed a survival job. And before he knew it, while his acting peers were waiting tables, he was beginning his apprenticeship as a corporate spy.
In our discussion, we explore:
* The world of corporate espionage and the common nature of the activity is;
* The techniques used by Robert to gain access to privileged information, including 'ruse calls’ and social engineering;
* How the growth of compliance functions played a role in Robert’s infiltration strategies;
* The methods Robert used to gain trust and information as a researcher;
* The very human reason that drove Robert to give up his role as a spy;
* The challenges posed by AI and deep-fake technology;
* What organisations and individuals can do to protect themsevels from ruse calls
and much, much more.
To find out more about Robert and 'Ruse: Lying the American Dream from Hollywood to Wall Street!’ visit www.robertkerbeck.com
Why can senior leaders — usually in post as a result of experience and expertise — often make mistakes? The answer might seem counterintuitive; it’s precisely because of their experience and expertise that this can happen. How that happens and what we can do to mitigate it, the subject of this epsiode.
My guest is Dr Constance Dierickx, who is also known as the Decision Doctor. She’s also the authr of a new book called ‘Meta Leadership: How To See What Others Don’t And Make Great Decisions’. In her book and her work, Constance explores how congitive biases can impact sneior leader decision-making and what they can do to mitigate this.
What applies to senior leaders also applies to the trest of us..
Discussion topics
In our discussion, we explore:
* Constance’s career and interest in the field of decision-making, including how she became known as The Decision Doctor and the work that she does with Senior Leaders;
* How meta-analysis and metacognition and how they can be used to help leaders make better decisions;
* The role of our default thinking patterns and instincts in making decisions and how our past experience shapes how we perceive the importance of new information;
* The significance of empathy in shaping decision-making skills; and
* How tensions and differences in perspective between senior management and boards can impact decision-making
Resources
For more information on Constance, her work and books, visit https://constancedierickx.com/. There you’ll also find a free meta-leadership self-assessment.
To read her HBR article entitled ‘What-senior-executives-can-do-when-the-board-meddles’: https://hbr.org/2019/07/what-senior-executives-can-do-when-the-board-meddles
Why is some software a real pain to use? How does it happen, and what can we do to make it not happen?
On this episode, I’m speaking with Sebastian Lees, an experienced software developer with a keen interest in making things more human-centric. We often think of computers as making our lives easier and reducing human risk. Yet, poor design and a lack of thinking about the humans that will use it can actually increase rather than decrease human risk.
In our discussion, amongst other things, we explore:
* The concept of 'human OS' in software development and how understanding the human psychological component is essential in creating effective and user-friendly software systems;
* The importance of balancing innovation and user comfort when updating software interfaces, using the evolution of Microsoft Office’s ribbon interface as a case study;
* The concept of affordance; how users often employ products in ways not originally intended by the developers, and how this can influence software design:
* The impact of seemingly minor tweaks to software on efficiency and user satisfaction, highlighting the importance of tailoring software to the users' habits and preferences;
* The critical role of smart process management in mitigating risks in software development illustrated through the case study of the 2012 Knight Capital failure.
* The influence of Nassim Taleb's ideas on software development approach and the application of his concepts, such as anti-fragility and survivorship bias in the field.
* The story of the Fat Tony's community, a group inspired by a character from Taleb's books, demonstrating the potential of small ideas to create significant impact.
For more on Seb, including links to Fat Tony’s and his social media accounts: https://sebs.website/
For more on Nassim Taleb: https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/
To see the Malicious Compliance Thread on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/MaliciousCompliance/
What is trickle-down safety? On this episode, I’m finding out with two safety specialists who help me to explroe what it means and why it’s relevant to other fields. By safety, I mean the kind that saves people’s lives on building sites,not the cyber kind.
My guests are James MacPherson and Elisa Lynch.
James is a safety professional who works across multiple industries, including manufacturing and construction. He operates his own consultancy called Risk Fluent and also runs an app called Risk Assessor. Additionally, he manages a community for safety people and hosts a podcast named Rebranding Safety His work revolves around safety and risk management, and he is passionate about discussing and challenging the current safety standards and practices in businesses.
Find James on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmacpherson1/
Elisa is also a safety professional with about a decade's experience, predominantly in construction safety. She is based in West Cork, Ireland. She co-hosts a podcast called Speak! , where she and her co-host Crystal Danbury discuss various safety-related topics. As you'll hear on the show, Elisa is credited with coining the term 'trickle down safety', a concept that compares how safety standards and regulations from larger companies can impose burdensome requirements on small businesses. She is an advocate for creating safety standards that are more fitting and less stressful for small businesses.
Find Elisa on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elisalynch/
The podcast on which I first heard James talk about 'Trickle Down Safety' was the Slice podcast which you'll find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRwjFV3YhCw
Show contents
On the show, we explore topics that include:
* 'Trickle down safety' concept and its impact on small businesses
* The pressure and stress imposed by larger companies on smaller businesses through burdensome safety standards and regulations
* The disproportionate effects of health and safety regulations on different businesses
* The ineffectiveness of one-size-fits-all approaches in safety regulations
* The concept of 'productive procrastination' and its impact on problem-solving in small businesses
* Barriers in academic research accessibility due to paywalls nad how social media can help break these down
* Risk and safety challenges faced by businesses due to bureaucratic issues
* Risk management and societal acceptance of risk levels in various industries
* Challenges and frustrations encountered in safety training within businesses.
What we can learn about customer service and being more human from the fire service?
On this episode, I’m speaking with David Wales, who used to work in the fire and rescue service and has now switched to focus on product design and customer service.
In his role in the fire and rescue service, David wanted to understand why people didn’t always do the things that they were told. For example, rushing into dangerous situations to rescue pets or laptops.
What this reinforced is something that we all intuitively know; there’s a gap between the theory of what people should do and the realities of what they actually do. That means the advice people receive is often not helpful for the realities they’re facing. What makes sense to the fire service, in theory, might not match the realities of people’s personal experiences.
That led him to a career in looking at customer experience, where the human touch is equally important.
On the episode, we explore:
* David’s career from being a firefighter to understanding the human touch in product design and customer service;
* how human behaviour plays a vital role in crisis situations and the importance of tailoring safety messages to individual circumstances;
* risk communication and the importance of personalisation in organisations;
* how emotions significantly influence customer experiences and the challenges in achieving customer-centricity;
* the difficulties faced by organisations in achieving customer-centricity;
* how companies often choose solutions for us, not with us, creating an impersonal system, and how a change of focus could lead to a more pleasant customer experience.
Links to topics we discussed:
The Edelmann Trust Barometer: https://www.edelman.com/trust/trust-barometer
Elton John’s donation of a piano to St Pancras Station in London: https://stpancras.com/news-events/sir-elton-john-s-piano
John Legend playing the piano at St Pancras: https://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/celebrity-news/john-legend-surprises-londoners-with-impromptu-performance-at-st-pancras-a3501956.html
Find David on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidatsharedaim/
Shared Aim, David’s company: https://www.sharedaim.co.uk/
How can we be better at explaining things? On the 250th episode of the podcast, I’m joined by a very special guest who has made explaining an art form and has just published a book called ‘The Art of Explanation’.
That guest is Ros Atkins. He’s a BBC News presenter and the BBC’s Analysis Editor. Ros is best known for his explainer videos, which, since 2019, have become a global phenomenon with vast audiences on social media and on the BBC's digital, TV and radio channels.
His new book — full title ‘The Art of Explanation: How to Communicate with Clarity and Confidence’ — is part autobiography, part history of his explainer videos and a practical guide to how we can all be better at explaining things.
I’ve been a fan of Ros’ videos and presentation style since first discovering them a few years ago. Not only have they made me smarter about the world, but the techniques he uses are engaging, informative and entertaining. So much so, in fact, that I’ve often found myself recommending to my clients that they watch them as masterclasses in how to make complicated subjects interesting and compelling.
Key talking points:
In our discussion, we explore:
* the importance of explanation and why we need to be better at it;
* the genesis of the explainer videos;
* the techniques Ros uses to make his videos;
* how Ros generates his ideas, sometimes taking inspiration from the most unexpected of places;
* lessons about how we can all be better at explaining things, not just at work but also in our personal lives;
* how Ros uses an entrepreneurial and collaborative approach to get projects off the ground;
* Texting Keith Olbermann, a very unusual BBC podcast that Ros recorded with his wife Sarah and US sports presenter Keith Olbermann.
* The 50:50 project, a highly successful initiative to support diverse representation in the BBC’s journalism, which Ros started in the newsroom in 2017 and has now spread across the BBC and beyond;
and much more.
‘The Art of Explanation: How to Communicate with Clarity and Confidence’
To find out more about Ros’ book: geni.us/TAOEBOOK
Keith Jarret Köln Concert
Ros mentions a story about jazz musician Keith Jarrett and a concert Jarrett played in Köln, Germany. As he tells the story — which links to the Inheritance Tracks podcast below — Ros says that we must fact-check it.
True to his reputation, after we’d finisjhed recording, he sent me this NPR link which appears to confirm the story: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/719557642
This piqued my curiosity, and I did further research and discovered that a reporter from — where else?! — the BBC – had looked into the Köln concert story. Not only did he confirm the facts, but he also managed to interview the concert promoter in question. You can hear the story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p00ldwyp
You can hear the Köln concert — part 3 features on the Spotify playlist below — here: https://open.spotify.com/album/0I8vpSE1bSmysN2PhmHoQg?si=UkPi_oTXR7Grrrwc403Fxg
‘Art of Explanation’ playlist
The Spotify playlist that features tracks from the book and podcast jointly curated by Ros and me: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/27ku9laOh8IantyEEdhTQa?si=fa1f8ca6d3cc41d1
Texting Keith Olbermann podcast
You’ll find Ros’ podcast ‘Texting Keith Olbermann’ here and on all podcast platforms: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p071wbr5
Inheritance Tracks
Hear Ros talking about Keith Jarrett’s Köln concert and Steely Dan’s Aja https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0g6c5bz
The ‘Ros Atkins on…’ series https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p095rjk1/episodes/player
My absolute favourite of Ros’ Explainer videos is Ros Atkins on…The Number 10 Christmas Party: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-59514568
What is livescribing? On this episode, I speak to an artist with a unique creative talent. Hannah Williams is the founder of Scribble Inc. and her talent is that she can summarise presentations and discussions in beautiful pieces of art that fuse words and images. You'll find links to examples below.
I met Hannah at a conference called Speak to the Human, an annual event, organised by Acteon Communication. You can read more about it here.
Hannah livescribed all the presentations and sessions that day, including mine.
You can see a video of her in action here and the live scribe of my presentation here:
The reason I wanted to get Hannah onto the show is because she has some fascinating perspectives from having spent hours observing humans and summarising their thoughts and ideas. Her lens on people can teach us a lot about human risk.
In our discussion, we explore:
* how Hannah came to become a livescribe after realising she had a talent for it;
* the role of live scribing in facilitating personal expression, fostering inclusion, and promoting understanding;
* how restrictions can enhance creativity, and how, counterintuitively, controlling the environment can stimulate creative flow;
* Hannah’s transitioned from being an artist to entrepreneur and how she balances her business decisions with personal values;
* the power of visual representation in communicating energy facilitating self-reflection and impriving our memory;
and much, much more.
You can find out more about Hannah and Scribble Inc and see examples of her work on the Scribble Inc website.
Why are we so reliant on models, how can they lead us astray, and what can we do about it?
On this episode, I’m exploring models. Of the mathematical kind, not the fashion or toy kind. Models interest me because so much of our world is run by them. Many of the things we take for granted in the 21st century have models either running or helping to run them.
When they work well, they enable things to happen that wouldn’t otherwise. But when they go wrong – as we’ve seen in the banking industry — there are serious consequences. The Human Risk angle on models is that models are designed, commissioned and used by people. As we know from people who blindly follow their GPS unit and drive into a river, we can often assume the models must be right. But what’s right in theory might not be in practice. The real world is often complex, and models don’t always capture nuances.
My guest is Dr. Erica Thompson. She’s the author of a fascinating book called ‘Escape from Model land: How mathematical models can lead us astray and what we can do about it’.
Erica is an Associate Professor of Modelling for Decision Making at University College Londons ’s Department of Science, Technology, Engineering and Public Policy. She’s also a Fellow of the London Mathematical Laboratory, where she leads the research programme on Inference from Models, and a Visiting Senior Fellow at the LSE Data Science Institute. So, she’s very highly qualified to help us explore what models are, why they can go wrong and what we can do about it.
On the show, we talk about:
* the use of models in decision-making across various contexts such as climate, insurance, finance, and economic risk assessment';
* the limitations and complexities of models, particularly when predicting the physical impacts of climate change over the 21st century;
* the importance of understanding and acknowledging the uncertainties and potential risks in manipulating models;
* the significance of diversity in models and the concept of maximizing model diversity for robust and accurate inference;
* the challenges of shifting to new models that can effectively represent different values and judgments and the difficulty in changing the system when vested interests and incentives are not aligned;
* the importance of trust and the need for experts to be deeply embedded within society and responsive to its values; and
* the role of science in shaping our optimism and understanding of challenges and the need for a more nuanced viewpoint about science and society.
To learn more about Erica, visit her personal website: https://www.ericathompson.co.uk/
For more on her book 'Escape from Model Land', visit https://www.ericathompson.co.uk/books/
To see episodes of the show you might have missed, visit www.humanriskpodcast.com
What can music teach us about human behaviour? What impact is remote and hybrid working having on employee conduct? How might we misjudge the risks posed by AI?
If these seem like a broad range of topics that have little in common, then you’re right and wrong. You’re right that they’re broad, but you’re wrong that they have little in common. My guest, Dr. Roger Miles, is a friend of the show — he’s been on it before (links to those episodes below) — and they’re all relevant to his work and interests.
Since I was recording at the world-famous Abbey Road studios in London, I thought having music fan and musician Roger in the studio would be a good idea. Not just to hear from him about music but also to catch up on what he’s been doing and hear his insights on current affairs and recent trends.
For more about Roger, visit his website: https://www.drrmiles.com/about
His books: https://www.koganpage.com/authors/roger-miles
To hear the previous times Roger has been on the show:
Roger on Conduct Risk: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-miles-on-conduct/
Roger on Conduct Risk under COVID: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/human-risk-webinar-recording-conduct/
During the show, we talk about:
The Barclays Bank ‘OccupEye’ tracking software: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-18/barclays-puts-in-sensors-to-see-which-bankers-are-at-their-desks
Hannah Arendt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Arendt
Professor Barry Rider: https://www.jesus.cam.ac.uk/people/barry-rider-obe-phd-lld
The Center for Human Technology: https://www.humanetech.com/
The famous train accident in Paris where the train literally left the station; https://www.midnight-trains.com/post/the-railway-disaster-at-the-gare-montparnasse
The VIP killed by the train he was there to launch: https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/from-the-archive-blog/2011/may/06/newspapers-national-newspapers2?
The FInancial Markets Standards Board Behavioural Cluster Analysis: https://fmsb.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/BCA_v32_1.pdf
‘Metaphors We Live By’ by George Lakoff and Mark Johnson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphors_We_Live_By
Diane Vaughan’s book on the Challenger disaster ‘The Challenger Launch Decision’ - https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/C/bo22781921.html
The review of conduct in London’s Metropolitan Police Force: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cw9d1pgzlyvt
The corporate violation tracker: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cw9d1pgzlyvt
The British Post Office Scandal: https://www.postofficescandal.uk/ You can hear Nick Wallis talk about his book on the scandal on this show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/nick-wallis-on-the-great-post-office-scandal/
‘The Blunders of Our Governments’ by Anthony King and Ivor Crewe: https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/The-Blunders-of-Our-Governments/Anthony-King/9781780746180
How well do we really know those who are closest to us? That’s the question that is behind ‘The Wolf Hunt’, a new novel by Israeli author Ayelet Gundar-Goshen. She's my guest on this very special episode.
In a first for the show, I’m interviewing the author of a piece of fiction. Ayelet isn’t just a writer. She’s also a clinical psychologist, which informs both her content and the way in which she writes her narratives.
The Wolf Hunt is the story of a mother who begins to suspect her teenage son of committing a terrible crime. Lilach, the main protagonist, seems to have it all: a beautiful home in the heart of Silicon Valley, a community of other Israeli immigrants, a happy marriage and a close relationship with her teenage son, Adam.
But when a local synagogue is brutally attacked, her shy, reclusive son is compelled to join a self-defence class taught by a former Israeli Special Forces officer. Then, a Black teenager dies at a house party, and rumours begin to circulate that Adam and his new friends might have been involved.
As scrutiny begins to invade Lilach's peaceful home and her family’s stability is threatened, will her own fears be the greatest danger of all?
It’s a fascinating and engaging storyline. And, as you’ll hear, it was inspired by a simple question Ayelet asked herself when she was dropping her daughter off at school.
In our discussion, we explore:
- Ayelet's journey as a writer and what inspires her to write;
- the psychological themes that underpin her work and how her personal experiences, both as a psychologist but also as a mother and individual, shape her narratives;
- The particular experiences and stories she’s been told that led to The Wolf Hunt;
- How literature serves as a universal mirror reflecting our experiences and biases
And so much more.
For more on The Wolf Hunt, visit https://pushkinpress.com/books/the-wolf-hunt/.
It's available in all major bookstores.
To read articles she's written for Time magazine: https://time.com/author/ayelet-gundar-goshen-2/
Since this is the first fiction writer I've had on the show, let me know what you think about the idea of doing more of this type of interview. If you like it, should it be part of the main show or a separate one? If you don't, why not!
Why are major projects so often delayed and over budget? On this episode, I'm speaking to Bent Flyvbjerg, the author of 'How Big Things Get Done'.
Bent s a Danish economic geographer. He was the First BT Professor and Inaugural Chair of Major Programme Management at Oxford University's Saïd Business School and is the Villum Kann Rasmussen Professor and Chair of Major Program Management at the IT University of Copenhagen
On the show, we discuss:
* The pivotal role of human risk in the execution of mega-projects, ranging from small tasks like kitchen remodelling to monumental endeavours like bridge construction.
* The significant influence of cognitive and power biases on the success or failure of these large-scale undertakings;
* The importance of simplicity in project governance for smooth execution;
* The role of data collection and storytelling in the success of mega-projects and how availability bias can shape perceptions;
* The unique challenges of conducting research in China, particularly in terms of data collection;
* The concept of human risk as a consistent thread in mega-project management;
* The strategy of reference star forecasting for making more accurate predictions by collecting data from similar projects;
* Warren Buffett's views on compound interest and how initial delays in a project can compound over time, leading to further delays;
* The concept of 'fat tails' and its impact on risk management in mega-projects;
* The importance of recognizing intelligent infrastructure principles when allocating infrastructure spending.
You'll find Bent's faculty page here: https://www.ox.ac.uk/news-and-events/find-an-expert/professor-bent-flyvbjerg
His book 'How Big Things Get Done': https://sites.prh.com/how-big-things-get-done-book
Find Bent on Twitter/X account: https://twitter.com/BentFlyvbjerg?
His LinkedIn profile: https://linkedin.com/in/flyvbjerg/
Links to his Papers: http://bit.ly/3YxVZVW
Bent's Speaker profile: http://bit.ly/41sd5W9
Bent's Consulting profile: http://bit.ly/3kclBbH
Why drives people to commit fraud? What turns people into whistleblowers? How does fraud impact victims? On this episode, I'm exploring the scams, stories and secrets behind fraud.
My guest is Dr. Kelly Richmond Pope. She's the Dr. Barry Jay Epstein Endowed Professor of Forensic Accounting at DePaul University in Chicago and a nationally recognized expert in risk, forensic accounting, and white-collar crime research.
Her expertise lies in understanding and identifying financial fraud risk within financial statements assessing corporate culture and compliance systems designed to confront internal control challenges.
She’s also the author of a new book called ‘Fool Me Once’, a book that, in her words, "explores what makes perpetrators tick, victims so gullible, and whistleblowers so morally righteous".
It also forces the person reading it to consider their own behaviour because, as Kelly highlights, we are all capable of committing fraud.
In our discussion, we explore:
* how she became interested in fraud and the human factors behind it;
* why people commit fraud and the fact that we are all capable of fraud
* what drives whistleblowers and how not all whistleblowers have the same motivation;
* the impact on victims of fraud;
* how story-telling can help to reduce fraud and make people more aware of it;
* the importance of catching small incidents of fraud to prevent larger ones;
* how technology enables — and helps prevent — fraud;
* whether fraud is always a bad thing
and so much more...
To find out more about Kelly and 'Fool Me Once' visit https://www.kellyrichmondpope.com/
To read sample chapters of my new book 'Humanizing Rules - Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' - www.humanizingrules.com
If you enjoyed this episode, do also listen to the episodes featuring Kelly Paxton, who specialises in Pink Collar Crime (PCC), a form of fraud:
Kelly's first appearance on the show in 2020 talking about PCC: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/kelly-paxton-on-pink-collar-1/
Kelly's second appearance in 2021 talking about how COVID has impacted PCC: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/kelly-paxton-on-pink-collar/
How can we design incentive programmes that deliver the right outcomes and avoid the wrong ones? We're all familiar with teh idea of rewards to encourage good behaviour and punishment to deter bad behaviour. Incentive programmes are common because they're effective. But they often come with unintended consequences.
On this episode, I'm speaking to a former colleague of mine, Bruce Rigal. He began his career in Investment Banking — where we worked together — before, like me, moving into Behavioural Science. As part of his role in banking, Bruce was responsible for the development of an incentive program within a bank, making him the ideal person to talk to about the challenges of developing ones that will deliver the right outcomes.
In our discussion, we talk about:
Professor Elke Weber: https://psych.princeton.edu/people/elke-weber
Professor Sam Peltzman: https://www.chicagobooth.edu/faculty/emeriti/sam-peltzman
The Peltzman Effect: https://tradestops.com/blog/the-peltzman-effect-how-safety-perception-increases-risk/
(Original paper here:https://www.jstor.org/stable/1830396)
The impact of rewards on intrinsic motivation in children: https://bingschool.stanford.edu/news/mark-lepper-intrinsic-motivation-extrinsic-motivation-and-process-learning
To connect with Bruce: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-rigal-6799a545/
For more on my book 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' and to read the first few chapters for free: www.humanizingrules.com
How can we be more in the moment in meetings, conversations and presentations? On this episode, I'm speaking to communications expert and comedian Neil Mullarkey.
In his new book 'In The Moment', Neil explores how we can use the ideas that underpin improv comedy to improve our confidence, communication and creativity.
In our discussion, we explore:
- how Neil came to work in Improv Comedy, how Mike Myers inspired his career and why he enjoys improvisation;
- how that translates into working in business to build creativity;
- the need for structures such as rules, methodologies and processes in order for creativity to be able to flourish;
- the difference between Newtonian and Darwinian dynamics in the workplace;
- lessons from the pandemic about working practices;
And so much more...
To find out more about:
Neil: https://neilmullarkey.com/
In The Moment: https://neilmullarkey.com/inthemomentbook
The Comedy Store Players: https://comedystoreplayers.com/
For more on my new book, 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behaviorual Science to Ethics & Compliance' and read the first few chapters for free: www.humanizing.rules.com
If you enjoyed this episode, then I also recommend listening to this episode where I spoke with comedy writer Paul Dornan: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-dornan-on-being-truly-funny/
What happens when you put three Behavioural Science gurus in a world-famous music studio? On this episode, we find out as my guests are Paul Craven, Rory Sutherland and Gerald Ashley, who join me for part three of a three-part series recorded at the world-famous Abbey Road Studios.
Before listening to it, I highly recommend listening to Parts One and Two, which you’ll find here.
Part One 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-paul-craven-at-abbey-road-part-one/
Part Two 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-paul-craven-at-abbey-road-part-two/
Links to some of the topics discussed on the show, in the order in which they feature:
British Rock band Def Leppard - https://www.defleppard.com/
Hear some of their greatest hits here -https://open.spotify.com/artist/6H1RjVyNruCmrBEWRbD0VZ?si=L0TAqQ7iRgeGmkka7JpywQ
Professor Paul Bloom's book 'Against Empathy' - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/against-empathy-paul-bloom?variant=32122194853922
Transport for Humans, the book Rory co-authored with Pete Dyson - https://www.transportforhumans.com/
HS2 (HighSpeed Rail 2) - https://www.hs2.org.uk/
You can hear Pete talking about it on this show here:
🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/pete-dyson-on-making-transport-more-human/
The story of IBM Watson in Boca Raton - https://www.bocahistory.org/ibm-boca-raton
Argos, the store Rory described as "the UK's equivalent of Amazon" - www.argos.co.uk
Paul's music recommendation: Bob Dylan's album ‘Oh Mercy’ https://open.spotify.com/album/18ue4s9PsV3WBw7kkzD689?si=gpwavscaRTChwFVaEwf5ig
Gerald's music recommendation: Rolling Stones — Exile on Main Street double album
https://open.spotify.com/album/5U4dnRZsfW8NmwBBkELFPhsi=PiBMVL1VSwGVy3QrZokuOg
Rory’s music recommendation: The Seekers — I’ll Never Find Another You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPT9NWK0J64&t=0s
If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more:
Rory on his own talking about ‘Compliance’: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Gerald on his own talking about ‘Uncertainty’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
Paul on his own talking about ‘Magic, Money & The Mind’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-on-magic-money/
Rory and Gerald Part One talking about ‘Networks’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory and Gerald Part Two talking about ‘Prosilience’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
Paul and Gerald Part One ‘Statistics, Spreadsheets & Scams’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-paul-craven/
Paul and Gerald Part Two ‘Context, Consequences & Changeability’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-gerald-ashley/
Rory and Paul Part One ‘Alchemy & Magic’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/
To find out more about my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ and to read the first few chapters for free: www.humanizingrules.com
Why do some people become ‘super spreaders’ for fashions and ideas? Why might an acceptance letter from a top University be worth more than a degree from the same establishment? These and many more questions are answered in this episode.
My guests are Behavioural Science gurus Paul Craven, Rory Sutherland and Gerald Ashley and this is Part Two of a three part series recorded at the world-famous Abbey Road Studios.
Before listening to it, I highly recommend listening to Part One, which you’ll find here.
🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-paul-craven-at-abbey-road-part-one/
Links to some of the topics discussed on the show, in the order in which they feature:
Superdry clothing - https://corporate.superdry.com/about-superdry/our-history/
Typhoid Mary, the Superspreader - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon
The book on fund manager Neil Woodford - https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/55354898
Ogilvy’s The Pipe recruitment processs - https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/ipa-blog/ogilvy-uk-s-apprenticeship-pipe-line
Psychologist Dr Iain McGilchrist - https://channelmcgilchrist.com/
Francis Fulford - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8PymL8PEyY
The story of Nashville Hot Chicken - https://www.mashed.com/140853/the-untold-truth-of-nashville-hot-chicken/
Jules Goddard's talk at Nudgestock - https://youtu.be/oNlzl37GLdA
If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more:
Rory on his own talking about ‘Compliance’: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Gerald on his own talking about ‘Uncertainty’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
Paul on his own talking about ‘Magic, Money & The Mind’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-on-magic-money/
Rory and Gerald Part One talking about ‘Networks’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory and Gerald Part Two talking about ‘Prosilience’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
Paul and Gerald Part One ‘Statistics, Spreadsheets & Scams’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-paul-craven/
Paul and Gerald Part Two ‘Context, Consequences & Changeability’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-gerald-ashley/
Rory and Paul Part One ‘Alchemy & Magic’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/
To find out more about my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ and to read the first few chapters for free: www.humanizingrules.com
What happens when you bring three behavioural science gurus into a world-famous recording studio? Find out on three special episodes of the Human Risk podcast.
Rory Sutherland, Gerald Ashley and Paul Craven have all been on the show before (links below), both individually and as duets. As the show approaches its 250th episode, I thought I’d invite them all back together for a recording session in Abbey Road Studios.
For this first of three episodes, I asked Rory, Gerald and Paul a question that was inspired by our location: what makes things a hit? Why do some things go viral and others don’t?
What emerged was a wide-ranging conversation that explored:
* why predicting hits is unpredictable;
* how bubbles can have positive outcomes;
* the role that emergence and chance play in driving innovation;
* how trends evolve over time;
* the role that labelling and branding play in determining what we like and don't;
* how fashions and preferences change over time;
and much, much more...
If you enjoyed this episode and want to hear more:
Rory on his own talking about ‘Compliance’: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Gerald on his own talking about ‘Uncertainty’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
Paul on his own talking about ‘Magic, Money & The Mind’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-on-magic-money/
Rory and Gerald Part One talking about ‘Networks’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory and Gerald Part Two talking about ‘Prosilience’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
Paul and Gerald Part One ‘Statistics, Spreadsheets & Scams’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-paul-craven/
Paul and Gerald Part Two ‘Context, Consequences & Changeability’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-gerald-ashley/
Rory and Paul Part One ‘Alchemy & Magic’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/
Rory and Paul Part Two ‘Magic & Alchemy’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-rory-sutherland-on-magic-alchemy/
How do we know that laws and rules are effective? On this episode, I'm returning to the field of Behavioural Law. It's something I've explored in previous episodes with academics (links below), but this time I'm joined by a practitioner who works in a law firm and whose job is to think about the behavioural dynamics of law.
The idea behind Behavioural Law is that since we right laws and rules in order to influence human behaviour, it makes sense to explore whether or not the laws and rules have the desired effect. Because if they don’t, then what’s the point in having them?
And if we’ve got ineffective laws, then we’re not mitigating human risk.
My guest is Nitish Upadhyaya, who is a behavioural scientist who is also a lawyer. He works for Ropes & Gray, a law firm that has a behavioural insights laboratory run by Nitish, which explores the intersection of behavioural science and law.
To find out more about:
Nitish - https://www.ropesgray.com/en/biographies/u/nitish-upadhyaya
His work at R&G Insights Lab - https://www.ropesgray.com/en/RGInsightsLab
The R&G ‘Better Way?’ Podcast - https://www.ropesgray.com/en/rginsightslab/better-way
To learn more about and read sample chapters from my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ - www.humanizingrules.com
Previous episodes of the show on Behavioural Law include:
Professor Yuval Feldman on why we should write rules for good people not bad people
Professor J S Nelson on What Everyone Needs To Know About Business Ethics
Professor Yuval Feldman on Trust & Voluntary Compliance
Professor Benjamin van Rooij on COVID Compliance
Professor Benjamin van Rooij on The Behavioural Code
Professors Benjamin van Rooij & Danny Sokol on Compliance 2.0
Professors Melissa Rorie & Benjamin van Rooij on Measuring Compliance
Why does a two-letter word ('no') often cause us huge amounts of problems? After all, it'seasy to say… except when it isn’t. We’ve all found ourselves in situations where we’ve wanted to say 'no' but, for some reason, haven’t been able to do so.
From a human risk perspective, it's not hard to see how finding it hard to say 'no', can crystallise human risk; it can lead to people doing things they aren’t qualified to do, don’t feel morally right about doing or simply don’t want to.
So, how can we put as much emphasis on ‘just say no’ as ‘yes we can’?
The answer comes courtesy of my guest Dr Vanessa Patrick who has just published a book called 'The Power of Saying No: The New Science of How to Say No that Puts You in Charge of Your Life'
Vanessa is the Associate Dean for Research, Executive Director of Doctoral Programs (PhD and DBA), a Bauer Professor of Marketing and lead faculty of the Executive Women in Leadership Program at the Bauer School of Business at the University of Houston.
In our dsiucssion, Vanessa explains the concept of 'empowered refusal', a skill that helps us say no in a way that does not invite pushback from others. She also highlightst why saying no is difficult because society expects us to say yes. Three factors that affect our ability to say no are concern for relationships, concern for reputation, and lack of practice in saying no.
Key points from our discussion:
1. Why the ability to say no is a skill worth developing and can be done by identifying what matters to us and what is a good use of our time;
2. How good work is excellent, engaging, and ethical, and we should focus on tasks that fall within this framework;
3. Vanessa refers to difficult people who refuse to take no for an answer as Walnut Trees; hear why and how we can develop strategies to handle them;
4. Surrounding ourselves with positive and nurturing people, or what Vanessa calls marigolds, is important for our well-being; and
5. Recognizing and managing our interactions with others can help us prioritize our time and focus on relationships that bring us joy.
To find out more about Vanessa, her research and her book, visit her website:
https://www.vanessapatrick.net/
Listeners too young to know what a fax machine is, can find out here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fax
For more on my book 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' and to read the first few chapters for free visit www.humanizingrules.com
To hear previous episodes you might have missed visit www.humanriskpodcast.com
What does it mean to be truly funny? We often associate the word ‘funny’ with comedy and making people laugh. But it can also mean being witty, incisive ironic, playful, teasing, or delivering little moments of truth.
On this episode, I’m speaking to comedy writer Paul Dornan, whose new company, True Funny, helps people discover what makes them funny — in the loosest sense of the word — and how they can maximise that in the way they present themselves. Not to make them artificially funny in an [inster funny joke here] type way, but naturally and authentically.
In our discussion, we explored how Paul came to become a comedy writer, working with comedy legend Barry Humphries. He explains how comedy was an inherent part of his family and how that led him to his career. We explore what makes comedy work and why being funny is all about being human.
Paul shares some of his thoughts about how being more authentic can make us more engaging and how the increasing power of cognitive technology means we all need to be more human.
To find out more about Paul and his company, True Funny: https://truefunny.co.uk/
During our discussion, Paul referred to a number of comedians and comedy shows:
Barry Humphries and Barry’s comedy alter ego Dame Edna Everage: https://www.dame-edna.com/
A clip that Paul referred to where Dame Edna speaks to former UK Prime Minister Ted Heath. Read this explanation first https://www.linkedin.com/posts/pauldornan_truefunny-activity-7055216788594151424-DmtU?
and then watch the clip here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/pauldornan_this-is-the-dame-ednated-heath-clip-in-all-activity-7055218623996424192-0UOo?
The Cambridge Footlights: https://www.cambridgefootlights.org/
Monty Python: https://www.montypython.com/
Peter Cook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cook/
Jonathan Coleman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Coleman_(presenter)
Jimmy Carr: https://www.jimmycarr.com/
Del Boy, a character from the TV show ‘Only Fools & Horses’: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Del_Boy
Ricky Gervais, the creator of the TV series ‘The Office’: https://www.rickygervais.com/
Mrs Brown’s Boys; https://www.mrsbrownsboys.com/
Why should we humanize rules? On this episode, your usual show host Christian Hunt is replaced by experienced podcaster and presenter Mark Heywood. That's becuase, the guest on today's episode is...Christian.
Having just released a book called 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance', he joins Mark to explore the complex world of human decision-making and the challenges of influencing compliance with rules. As well as talking about the book, we also provide personal reflections on risk, societal norms and how cultural context shapes behaviour.
Hear how thoughtful and considerate design can improve compliance and prevent unintended consequences and why humanizing rules can lead to better outcomes.
To hear Mark's podcast 'Behind The Spine' 🎧 👉 www.behindthespine.co.uk
For more on 'Humanizing Rules' and to read the first few chapters for free 👉 www.humanizingrules.com
How can organisations with limited resources handle ethical issues? While every organisation wants to be ethical — or at the very least, to be seen to be ethical — smaller ones often lack the resources or experience to manage these issues.
My guest Rupert Evill is the author of ‘Bootstrapping Ethics’, a book that’s designed to help organisations with limited resources in the same way as they think of other challenges as something that can be bootstrapped. In other words, you don’t need lots of money or staff to be able to run an ethical business.
In our discussion, we explore how Rupert came to work in ethics and the issues that inspired and continue to inspire him to work in the field, including corruption, child poverty, human trafficking, and wildlife trafficking. We also look at some of the creative ways he’s worked with his clients to do that.
To find out more about Rupert, visit his company website https://www.ethicsinsight.co/
You’ll also find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rupert-evill/
For more on his book ‘Bootstrapping Ethics' https://www.ethicsinsight.co/book/
Rupert’s book is published by Wiley, which makes him a publishing stablemate of mine, and so, it would be remiss of me not to mention that my book ‘Humanizing Rules; Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ is also out now. You can find out more about that by visiting www.humanizingrules.com
If you order that and ‘Bootstrapping Ethics’, you’ll not only have two books that complement each other in terms of subject, but they also look fabulous next to each other on the bookshelf.
What’s the most effective way to communicate rules and influence humans to comply with them? On the face of it, just telling people what to do seems like a sensible approach. But what about when those rules have a qualitative component, where people need to do things to a particular standard — for example, behave in an ethical manner — or where it’s not possible to monitor what they’re doing?
In those cases, just telling people what to do is far less likely to work as we risk only finding out once it’s too late. We need an alternative approach.
My guest on this episode is Dr Bettina Palazzo. She’s a business ethics consultant who helps companies to improve their integrity culture and bring a fresh perspective to compliance and ethics. Or, to put it another way, she helps people who are responsible for mitigating human risk to engage their audiences.
In our discussion, Bettina emphasizes the need for companies to prioritize ethics in all aspects of business, as well as the importance of creating individualized codes of conduct and focusing on the client experience and employee journey of compliance.
Bettina also tells me about "ethics scripting" for employees to have a clear response in difficult ethical situations and the need for clear policies in grey areas of decision-making.
She also introduces her Compliance Influencer program: https://compliance-influencer.com/
To learn more about Bettina: https://bettinapalazzo.com/en/home/
In our discussion, I mention a ‘readability’ measure in Microsoft Word: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-your-document-s-readability-and-level-statistics-85b4969e-e80a-4777-8dd3-f7fc3c8b3fd2
For more on my book ‘Humanizing Rules’: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What happens when people meet technology? As Artificial Intelligence makes machines appear to be more human, what does that mean for the interactions we have with tech?
On this episode, I’m speaking to Matt Ballantine. He has spent spent the past two decades helping organisations make sense of where people, communications and technology collide.
In the past, Matt has worked in global technology, media and marketing organisations, including Microsoft, Imagination, Reuters and the BBC, focussed on a wide range of technology and organisational challenges.
All of this means he’s got some fantastic insights to share. And he’s got some really interesting ideas about how we can think about technology and the impact it is having on our lives.
For more information:
Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattballantine/
Matt on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ballantine70
To read his blog: https://mmitii.mattballantine.com/
For more on 100 Coffees: https://mmitii.mattballantine.com/category/projects/100-coffees/
The PlayCards: https://stamplondon.co.uk/
Matt’s WB40 podcast: https://wb40podcast.com/about/
For more on my book ‘Humanizing Rules’: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
Why did an advertisement for coffee prompt a nurse to contact the company to ask them to withdraw it? The answer is that the nurse in question works in a burns unit, and the advertisement — for the coffee chain Costa Coffee — showed a scene which, if replicated in real life, could cause serious injury.
That nurse is called Kristina Stiles, and she’s my latest guest on the show. I saw her post and was intrigued. After a brief introductory discussion, I realised that not only was this an opportunity to highlight how humans can underestimate risk but also to learn some fascinating techniques that are used to help prevent it.
On the show, we talk about the risk of burns and scalds, what you can do to prevent them from happening and get practical advice on how to respond if they occur.
For easy reference, the key lessons Krissie shares are:
* Most burn injuries happen in the home, so preventing burns is mainly preventing hot liquid scolds in our homes.
* Wherever you are working with boiling water, hot pants, hot oven doors, or running a hot bath, it's really important that you separate your young family members away from those areas.
* But if the inevitable does happen, it's 20 minutes of cool running water. This is still effective within three hours of the burn injury.
* Call for help, and then wrap gently, loosely in cling film or a non-fluffy clean cloth.
To see the post that led to me inviting Krissie onto the show and the Costa Coffee advertisement: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kristina-stiles-msc-%F0%9F%87%B1%F0%9F%87%BB-%F0%9F%87%AC%F0%9F%87%A7-8b225997_burns-prevention-beburnsaware-activity-7046899226101866499-P4tr?
For more information on:
The Children’s Burns Trust: https://www.cbtrust.org.uk/
Dan’s Fund for Burns: https://dansfundforburns.org/
The Katie Piper Foundation: https://katiepiperfoundation.org.uk/
The Family Oops eBook that Kristina wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7aDyugYJOM
What’s the difference between a leader that communicates well and one that doesn’t?
We’ve all seen examples of leaders who are terrible at communicating — whether it’s politicians that can’t find the right words or those nightmare bosses who fail to read the room. If you’ve watched any of the recent clips on social media of insensitive bosses communicating really badly, then this episode is your antidote.
My guest is Jenny-Joy Kreindl. She’s the managing partner of Talent & Leadership Solutions, a boutique consultancy based in Switzerland. Jenny specialises in human-centric communication, and she is interested in the psychology of choice and how language can influence decision-making. In a previous life, she's had a broad career, initially training as an actress and finally working at UBS — where I met her — managing a sales team. She's also a qualified coach.
In our discussion, we explore the importance of effective communication strategies in leadership and sales tactics. Jenny shares practical examples of how we can all — whether we're in leadership positions or not — improve our communication skills.
We also explore the impact of government communication during the COVID pandemic and how it affected public opinion and behavior. Jenny also shares her personal experiences and observations, including her experience of using train and plane travel as an opportunity to connect with senior executives.
For more on Talent & Leadership Solutions - https://www.talentandleadership.com/
For more on Jenny - https://www.talentandleadership.com/about/
For more on the Make It Click model - https://www.make-it-click.com/model/
You can hear Jenny’s colleague Sigfried Höhnle talking about positive leadership on the show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-sigi-hoenle-on-positive-leadership/
For more on my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What do we mean when we say that someone is being unreasonable? On the face of it, the person we're describing has either broken a rule or a social norm. But what are we basing that on?
My guest Dr Kirsty Sedgman is a Doctor of Audiences at the University of Bristol. That means she researches how audiences — for example, in the theatre — behave and respond to the performance they're watching.
Her work investigates how people find value in cultural participation. How do they experience and respond to the things they see? How are these pleasures and disappointments made meaningful in their lives? And what can all this tell us about the role of the arts in society and the relationship between cultural institutions, power, identity, and place?
More recently, she's turned that same lens onto other situations — for example, being on public transport, at work or in a cafe - to explore what being reasonable or unreasonable means.
Through her research, Kirsty has discovered that the idea of being reasonable is deeply embedded in our moral and legal judgment system and can often be subjective and influenced by personal biases. From theatre etiquette to crossing the road, there are rules in place for our safety and social norms. These can be useful, but they can also have the potential to marginalize and exclude certain groups of people.
As Kristy explains, what is reasonable or unreasonable, is actually a matter of perception. That's relevant to how we all behave, how we judge the behaviour of others and is highly relevant for those of us responsible for influencing human behaviour.
The story about the performance of the Bodyguard that was disrupted by members of the audience that I refer to is explained here: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/astonishing-moment-audience-member-screams-26658204
You can find out more about Kirsty on her website: https://kirstysedgman.com/
Her academic profile: https://www.bristol.ac.uk/people/person/Kirsty-Sedgman-35581165-6a8e-4715-9e89-05670807d2e0/
For details of her book 'Being Unreasonable':
https://www.faber.co.uk/product/9780571366835-on-being-unreasonable/
You can find her on social media:
Twitter - https://twitter.com/KirstySedgman
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirstysedgman/
For more details on my new book 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
Why might seeking to ban misinformation, be a bad idea? On this episode, I’m returning to a subject I’ve looked at before, with a guest I’ve spoken to before!
She’s Professor Magda Osman — if you’ve not heard her previous experiences, there are links below to those and her bio – and, as ever, she’s got some fascinating insights. The topic is Misinformation.
On the face of it, trying to ban mis- or disinformation seems like a good idea. If we know something is likely to mislead people then, we should surely look at restricting or banning it. That’s why most countries regulate advertising.
But what if I told you that there might be a good reason not to ban it? That’s the perhaps supposing conclusion that Magda’s research has produced.
So, in this episode, I’m delving back into the topic of misinformation and disinformation - what they are, how they're regulated, and how they impact society.
And Magda helps me to think about whether labelling any dissenting information as misinformation and banning it from communication is the right approach.
We explore the tenuous connection between beliefs and actions and how exposure to false news or misinformation does not necessarily lead to negative behaviour.
Plus we discuss the challenges of determining what is true and what is not, particularly when it comes to scientific discoveries, and the consequences of intentional distortion of facts for profit.
Finally, our conversation moves into an area I wasn’t expecting, but which is related and fascinating. Does adding more labels to food packaging help people make better choices and can it actually change consumer behaviour?
If you’ve heard Magda before you’ll know that you’re in for a treat. If you haven’t, then remember to check out her previous appearances.
Background
Magda is a Professor in Basic and Applied Decision-Making at the Centre for Science and Policy at the University of Cambridge and the Visiting Professor of Policy Impact at Leeds Business School, part of the University of Leeds.
You can read more about Magda and her work on her faculty page here: https://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/magda-osman/
And on her personal website here: https://www.magdaosman.com/
In her most recent appearance on the show, earlier this year, she talked about Compliance, Coercion & Competence. You can hear that episode here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-magda-osman-on-compliance-coercion-competence/
Magda first appeared on the show in 2020 when she talked about behavioural interventions that had failed and what we can learn from them. You’ll find that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-magda-osman-on-behavioural/
Then in 2021, she returned to talk about Unconscious Bias. You’ll find that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-magda-osman-on-unconscious/
To hear the previous episode of the show on Misinformation, with another Cambridge Professor, Sander Van Der Linden: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-sander-van-der-linden-on-misinformation/
Humanizing Rules
To learn more about my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
In times of uncertainty and change, what do we need from leaders? On this episode, I'm sepaking to Dr Sigi Hoenle, a leadership expert whose approach to leadership is relentlessly positive.
Sigi believes that leaders need to deliver their mission through three 'P's: passion, purpose and partnership.
In our discussion. Sigi emphasizes the need for leaders to genuinely embody the values of their organization and create a community where people want to belong and flourish. He's no fan of the "you're lucky to work here" philosophy that many employers adopt.
Instead, he believes that if organisations want to attract the best talent that they need to offer compelling propositions. And that requires leaders that understand what their employees and prospective employees need and want.
In the past, career progression was often looked at in the context of following rigid paths. Paths that, if we're honest, probably suited no one. But if we won't be able to have necessary skills to lead organisations in the 21st century and feel fulfilled, then we need to think a bit more fluidly. That's also really important if we want to develop more diverse and therefore effective workforces.
To find out more about Sigi and his work visit:
https://www.talentandleadership.com/about/
and you can read about his teachin work here:
https://www.ie.edu/lifelong-learning/faculty/siegfried-hoenle/
To learn more about my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
For other episodes of the show on Leadership-related themes:
Professor Niels Van Quaquebeke on Behaviour & Leadership under COVID19:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-niels-van-quaquebeke-on/
Wendy Lambourne on Legitimate Leadership:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/wendy-lambourne-on-legitimate-leadership/
Dr Carol Kauffman on Leadership Under Pressure
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/carol-kauffman-on-leadership-under-pressure/
Dr Nick Chatrath on Leadership in the age of AI
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/nick-chatrath-on-ai-leadership/
What do Compliance, Coercion and Competence have to do with each other? They’re all subjects I talk about with my guest Professor Magda Osman who manages to weave all three topics together.
Compliance is all about exploring the challenges of policymaking in the real world. It’s one thing looking at the theory of how things should be regulated and public policy should be designed, but another to look at the realities of putting it into practice.
Coercion is looking at the topic of ‘free will’; do we have it, and if so, when? Would we know whether we’re exercising free will, or are we always subject to influence?
Competence explores the idea from conventional wisdom that the more we practice something, the better we are at it. But as Magda explains, if we’re crap at something and keep practising being crap, we’re not necessarily going to develop competence. Repeatedly rehearsing badly doesn’t lead to objectively improved performance.
Magda is a Professor in Basic and Applied Decision-Making at the Centre for Science and Policy at the University of Cambridge and the Visiting Professor of Policy Impact at Leeds Business School, part of the University of Leeds.
You can read more about Magda and her work on her faculty page here: https://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/magda-osman/
And on her personal website here: https://www.magdaosman.com/
She first appeared on the show in 2020 when she talked about behavioural interventions that had failed and what we can learn from them. You’ll find that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-magda-osman-on-behavioural/
Then in 2021, she returned to talk about Unconscious Bias. You’ll find that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-magda-osman-on-unconscious/
To learn more about my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What is circularity, and why does it matter? As we seek to manage the climate emergency, companies are being challenged to play their part in being more sustainable. Which is where the concept of circularity comes in. This is the idea, in the context of sustainability, that a product is created with its own end-of-life taken into account.
In other words; businesses take responsibility, not just for producing an item, but for what happens after it reaches the end of its useful life. Whether that’s an item of clothing that is no longer wearable or a bottle that contained a drink that we’ve finished. In a circular economy, once the user is finished with the product, it goes back into the supply chain instead of to a landfill.
My guest on this episode is Chris Houghton. Many years ago, Chris and I worked together in financial services regulation. While I moved into the field of human risk, he’s gone on to work for energy and consumer companies and is now an advocate for circularity, which forms the core of the business he runs.
Chris is the CEO of Teemill; the world’s first open-source closed-loop apparel manufacturer. You can find out more about them by visiting their website: www.teemill.com
For more on Circularity see: https://ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/topics/circular-economy-introduction/overview
It’s a company that has shifted away from much of the conventional logic that is deployed by the majority of the apparel industry. Most obviously, the idea of producing clothes speculatively in the hope of selling them, rather than only producing them on demand, but also the idea of taking end-to-end responsibility for what happens to the clothes after the customer is no longer using them.
To connect with Chris on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-houghton-a28a408/
To pre-order my new book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
As we enter the Age of Artificial Intelligence, what role will humans play? On this episode, I'm speaking to leadership expert and coach Nick Chatrath. He's a former colleague of mine and the author of a new book called 'Threshold: Leading In The Age of AI', which explores how leadership models will need to evolve in the AI Era in order to avoid humans feeling frustrated, unmotivated, and burnt out.
In our discussion, we explore how AI taking over cognitive tasks will mean leaders need to develop new skills in order to motivate their workforce. How can we all re-tool in order to find purpose in the new world.
Nick has some fascinating insights to share that are thought-provoking and highly actionable. Essential listening as we transition to a new era.
You can learn more about Nick on his website: http://nickchatrath.com/
You can also find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickchatrath/?
His company Artesian Group: https://www.artesiangroup.co.uk/
For more on his book 'Threshold: Leading In The Age of AI': http://nickchatrath.com/meet-the-threshold/
The DItchley Winter Dialogue 2022 Nick referred to in our discussion: https://www.ditchley.com/programme/past-events/2020-2029/2022/ditchley-winter-dialogue
Caroline Criado Perez's 'Invisible Women': https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/
Some relevant previous episodes of the show:
My interview with ChatGPT: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/chat-gpt-3-on-ai-human-risk/
Hilary Sutcliffe on Trust: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hilary-sutcliffe-on-trust/
Kate Jones on Human Risk in Emerging Technologies: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/kate-jones-on-human-risk-in-emerging-technologies/
To find out more about my new book 'Humanizing Rules: BRinging Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance': https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What makes for a good customer experience? In two special episodes of the Human Risk podcast, I’m speaking to CX experts who provide fascinating insights into what drives how we feel about the times when companies deliver really good or really bad service
On this episode which is the second of the two, I speak with Peter Ramsey. He’s the Founder of Built for Mars, a company that undertakes UX research. He has spent 1000s of hours researching what makes for good and bad customer experience and has some incredible insights to share.
To find out more about Peter and his work, visit: https://builtformars.com/
You can find him on social media:
LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ramseyp
Twitter:https://twitter.com/PeteRamsey and https://twitter.com/BuiltforMars
To buy my new book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What makes for a good customer experience? In two special episodes of the Human Risk podcast, I’m speaking to CX experts who provide fascinating insights into what drives how we feel about the times when companies deliver really good or really bad service.
In two interviews that I’m releasing together, I’m speaking to experts in customer experience. They both have different approaches, but their work is aimed at the exactly the same objective; recognising when the experience is poor and identifying ways to improve it.
On this episode which is the first of the two, I speak with John Sills. He’s a partner at the Foundation, which helps companies to grow by providing better customer service. In our discussion, we explore what makes for good and bad customer experiences and how companies can do a better job of delivering them.
To find out more about John and his work, visit:
John’s personal website where you can subscribe to his CX stories Newsletter: https://johnjsills.com/
The Foundation website: https://www.the-foundation.com/
For more on John’s book ‘The Human Experience’: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Human-
Experience-customers-successful-organization/dp/1399401734/ref=sr_1_1?
You’ll find him on social media as follows:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/johnjsills
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnjsills/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cx_stories/
Finally, to buy my new book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
How can leaders make good decisions when under pressure? My guest is leadership coach Carole Kauffman. She is on the faculty at Harvard, where she is the Founder of the Institute of Coaching and is the co-author of a new book called ‘Real-Time Leadership: How to Find Your Winning Moves When the Stakes are High’.
With leaders increasingly having to take decisions quickly and under heavy scrutiny, getting things right is not always easy. On the face of it, leaders ought to be able to rely on experience or gut instinct to see them through. But as news headlines constantly remind us, people in leadership positions can and do get things badly wrong.
In Real Time Leadership, Carole and her co-author David Noble introduce a framework called MOVE that can help leaders to make better decisions in challenging times. When the stakes are highest, how can leaders be at their best? How can they master the moment, generate options, and quickly evaluate them before acting? The MOVE framework allows leaders to formulate strategies for what they can do when making decisions under pressure so that when the time comes, they have a clear set of options.
Even if you’re not in a leadership position, the MOVE framework and what Carol has to share is just as relevant to you. Because we’re all required to make decisions at difficult times, whether or not we hold a formal leadership position. Although the context might be different, the challenges are the same.
For more on:
Carol - https://carolkauffman.com/
Carol on Twitter - https://twitter.com/CarolKauffman
‘Real-Time Leadership: Find Your Winning Moves When the Stakes Are High’, the book Carol has co-authored with David Noble and the Real Time Leadership Institute- https://rtlinstitute.com/
My book Humanizing Rules; Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance is available for pre-order now: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
Are you curious about how AI and automation are changing the world of human risk? Do you wonder what the future of work might look like in a world where machines and humans are increasingly interconnected?
Then you won't want to miss the latest episode of the Human Risk Podcast, where we welcome a very special guest: ChatGPT, an AI language model.
In this episode, we dive deep into the world of AI and human risk, discussing the potential risks and benefits of this transformative technology, how to mitigate those risks, and what the future might hold.
As a generative AI language model, ChatGPT also provides invaluable insights into how to get the best out of this type of technology and avoid some of the common pitfalls.Tune in to learn from ChatGPT about what AI is, what risks it poses, and how you can be better at using generative AI.
You can find the episode on humanriskpodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
Don't miss this fascinating and engaging conversation with one of the most innovative and insightful guests we've ever had on the show.
[Yes, those shownotes were written by ChatGPT-3].
What can war and politics teach us about human risk? On this episode, I'm joined by a guest with insights into both fields.
About Mike
Dr Mike Martin is a former British Army officer who's a senior visiting research fellow in the Department of War Studies at King's College London, where he's interested in the evolutionary psychology of warfare and humans, internal conflict in societies and strategy formation.
He’s had a fascinating career, having served with distinction in the British Army as a political officer in Afghanistan. His job was to talk to all sides in the. And build relationships. In fact, he invented that job for the British military, and a new unit was created as a result. Since leaving the army, Mike's been a senior executive in a global charity that works to bring people and communities together, and he currently runs his own business advising organizations on how to understand and navigate conflicts.
More recently, Mike has moved into politics and is a parliamentary candidate for the Tunbridge Wells constituency where he’ll be standing for the Liberal Democrats in the next election.
Discussion Topics
In our discussion, we explore:
* Mike's career, what drove him to move from the military to war studies, and then onto politics.
* Insights into the human risk of decision-making around the war in Ukraine,
* Misconceptions people have about the realities of war; and
* What drives his passion and interest in politics;
To Find Out More
For more information on the topics we discussed:
Mike’s War Studies Research at Kings College: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/people/dr-mike-martin
His biography: https://www.threshedthought.com/drmikemartinbio/
His new book ‘How To Fight A War’: https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Fight-War-Mike-Martin/dp/1787389308/
His official website as Liberal Democrat Candidate in Tunbridge Wells: https://mike-martin.co.uk/
His Twitter account where he shares insights into the war in Ukraine: https://twitter.com/threshedthought
Finally, to pre-order my new book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit: https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
On this special episode of the show, I’m interviewing a doctor whose photograph went viral. In 2019, Doctor Gordon Caldwell, a retired Consultant Physician and Clinical Lead with the UK’s National Health Service (NHS) had a photograph taken of himself lying next to a long line of forms.
The photograph’s purpose was to highlight the amount of paperwork medical professionals need to fill in. Gordon is a tireless campaigner against bureaucracy, and he wanted to make the point that time spent filling in forms is time not spent looking after patients. I saw the photograph and posted it on LinkedIn with some comments (link below). The level of responses I received made me realise he’d struck a chord.
So I invited him onto the show! Fortunately, Gordon agreed, and during our discussion we explored:
* The genesis of the photograph and why Gordon felt motivated to take it
* The reasons why there is so much bureaucracy within the NHS
* The impact this has on patient care
* What Gordon sees as ways to improve it
The original article I saw about Gordon’s campaign in The Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/01/21/pictured-doctor-shows-army-pointless-forms-burying-nhs-hospitals/
A subsequent piece he wrote for The Spectator: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-nhs-is-drowning-in-paperwork/
To pre-order my new book ‘Humanising Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
My guest Marc Ross is aa senior geopolitical strategist and communications executive that helps companies and politicians get their message across. As you’ll hear on the show, Marc specializes in navigating today's interconnected business environment with geopolitical intelligence, strategic planning, economic diplomacy, and communications and has extensive experience with global Fortune 100 companies, trade associations, and national political campaigns in the US and UK.
In our discussion, we explore Marc’s experience in helping politicians on the campaign trail he tells me which ones he thinks are good at communicating and which ones need a bit of help. How has communications shaped the war in Ukraine and what are the ways in which people who aren’t natural-born communicators can get their message across? As Marc explains, it's no good if you’re a politician with great ideas if you can’t get elected to implement them.
We also talk about companies and some of the differences between the way politicians and corporate leaders communicate. You’ll learn why sometimes the art of the communications strategist is to keep things out of the news and whether spin doctors deserve the reputation they have.
To find out more about Marc visit: https://www.caracal.global.
You'll also find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcaross/
To hear the podcast Marc records with Gerald Ashley:
https://open.spotify.com/show/508cIDKvHZiyhmYhQcqdW1?si=1b812a7e0aca4bb1
For more on my new book 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behaviorual Science to Compliance' visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What can financial crime teach us about human risk? On this episode, I'm joined by Ray Blake, co-host of "The Dark Money Files," a podcast that examines how the banking system is used by organized crime and corrupt individuals to launder their ill-gotten gains.
Since 2015, Ray and his co-host, Graham and Barrow, have been shedding light on the techniques used by criminals to perpetrate financial crime and what people working in banking can do to prevent it.
In our discussion, we explore how Ray became interested in financial crime prevention, what prompted him and Graham to start the podcast, and the human risk dynamics relevant to fighting financial crime. Ray shares some intriguing insights — such as the fact that if financial crime were a standalone economy, it would be entitled to its own seat at the G7! — and his thoughts on what can be done to help mitigate the risks posed by financial crime.
To find out more about Ray and the Dark Money Files, visit https://www.thedarkmoneyfiles.com/
You can find Ray on social media as follows:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayblakeafc/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/rayblake
To find out more about my new book 'Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioral Science to Ethics and Compliance' which is available for pre-order now (release date in March) visit https://www.human-risk.com/humanizing-rules-book
What happens when we bring all of ourselves to work? That’s not something we do by choice. As my guest on this episode, Gabriella Braun, explains, we can’t leave part of ourselves at home when we go to work; we will naturally bring all that we are into the workplace.
That concept explains the title of Gabriella’s book ‘All That We Are: Uncovering the Hidden Truths Behind Our Behaviour at Work’. It’s an astonishing collection of stories in which she shares insights from over twenty years of taking psychoanalysis out of the therapy room and into the staff room.
As you’ll hear, in her work, she helps people to understand why employing humans means employing them in their entirety — the good and the bad. In the book and in our discussion, she talks about why a board loses the plot and nearly causes their company to collapse — spoiler alert: they survive — and why a lawyer becomes paranoid at work. And she makes some amazing revelations about her own life.
To find out more about Gabriela and her book, visit her website https://www.gabriellabraun.co.uk/
To pre-order my new book ‘Humanizing Rules; Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit www.linktr.ee/humanizingrules
Why do people fall for misinformation, and what can we do to prevent it? On this episode, I’m speaking to Professor Sander van der Linden of Cambridge University. He’s the author of a new book called ‘Foolproof: Why We Fall for Misinformation and How to Build Immunity’.
Sander is often referred to as Cambridge University’s Teacher against the Dark Arts. More formally, he’s the Professor of Social Psychology in Society in the Department of Psychology at the University of Cambridge and Director of the Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab. His research interests centre around the psychology of human judgment and decision-making. In particular, he is interested in the social influence and persuasion process and how people are influenced by (mis)information and gain resistance to persuasion through psychological inoculation.
In our discussion, we explore the nature of misinformation, why it is so prevalent and why we’re all prone to falling for it. We also discuss how social media networks propagate it and why our natural instinct that de-bunking things that aren’t true is actually ineffective in combating it. Rather than this, Sander proposes a solution of pre-bunking, and during our conversation, he explains what it is, how it works and why it is an effective vaccine against the virus of misinformation.
As you'll hear on the show, Sander has a fabulous way of explaining complex science in very easy-to-understand ways, and his book comes highly recommended.
To find out more about Sander and how you can pre-order ‘Foolproof’ visit his personal website: https://www.sandervanderlinden.com/
His faculty webpage is: https://www.psychol.cam.ac.uk/people/sander-van-der-linden
You’ll find him on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/sander_vdlinden
Finally, to pre-order my new book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance’ visit www.linktr.ee/humanizingrules
What do technology, behaviour and data have in common? My guest, Paul Armstrong, runs a conference called TBD and is a thought leader in how the three topics interconnect. As technology becomes smarter and more pervasive, what does that mean for human decision-making and human risk?
Paul runs HERE/FORTH, an emerging technology advisory firm that works with a number of high-profile clients. As well as working in the technology industry in both the US and the UK, he has also written a book called "Disruptive Technologies” — the new revised version is just about to be published — and created the TBD Conference, an annual showcase of subjects relevant to technology, behaviour and data. In our discussion, Paul talks about how the conference came about.
To find out more about Paul, visit his website: https://www.paularmstrong.co.uk/
For more on TBD Conference: https://www.thetbdconference.com/ and the 2023 speakers: https://www.thetbdconference.com/speakers
To get 50% off ticket prices, use this exclusive link: https://www.universe.com/embed2/events/633466daac39cb002e4cfbb0?state=%7B%22currentDiscountCode%22%3A%7B%22code%22%3A%22TBDCONFHUMANRISK%22%7D%7D
To order Paul’s new book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disruptive-Technologies-Practical-Understand-Disruption/dp/139860920X
For more on Paul’s “What Did Amazon Do This Week” subscription newsletter: https://whatdidamazondothisweek.substack.com/
Some of the things we mention on the show:
Desire Paths, where humans chose routes other than the ones designers intended: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/oct/05/desire-paths-the-illicit-trails-that-defy-the-urban-planners
The Welsh example I refer to: https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/nvgxef/to_stop_people_walking_on_the_grass/
Affordances: https://danewesolko.medium.com/the-theory-of-affordances-cb51fd138b3e
The book ‘Winning Not Fighting’: https://www.winningnotfighting.com/
Behavioural Science guru Rory Sutherland. Here’s his first appearance on the show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Miss Yankey, the slam poet Paul invites to do readings at TBD: https://www.missyankey.com/
Sedition, digital art: https://www.seditionart.com/
Finally, to pre-order my new book, 'Humanized Rules: Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance', visit https://www.linktr.ee/humanizedrules. Keep your receipt, and you’ll get access to exclusive content and events.
How can stereotypes — particularly those relating to gender and ethnicity — drive us to draw the wrong conclusions? If I say the word American, you’re more likely to think of a white person. If I say the word Doctor, you’re more likely to think of a man. There’s a famous riddle involving a surgeon (link below) that you may have heard, which has an obvious answer that we often struggle to find. Obviously, that is, if you look beyond stereotypes.
It’s something that my guest Kirsten Morehouse has researched. Kirsten is a PhD candidate in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University, with a secondary field in Data Science, where she works under the supervision of Professor Mahzarin Banaji .
Kirsten is also the co-president of Harvard’s Women in Psychology (WiP). She uses behavioural and computational methods to study humans’ attitudes and beliefs about social groups, especially beliefs that conflict with consciously held values or ground-truth data.
I’m interested in this subject because although stereotypes — like other forms of bias — can serve a useful purpose, or at least did for our ancestors — they can also drive very poor decision-making. If we want to mitigate human risk and get the best out of people, we need to recognise where inaccurate stereotypes cloud our judgement.
To learn more about Kirsten and her research, visit her website: https://kirstenmorehouse.wordpress.com/
To read the surgeon riddle research we referred to on the show:
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cresp.2022.100044
For more on her colleague Tessa Charlesworth: https://tessaescharlesworth.wordpress.com/
To learn more about Caroline Criado Perez and her book ‘Invisible Women’ - https://carolinecriadoperez.com/
To pre-order my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing BeSci to Ethics & Compliance’ visit:
Direct from the publisher US: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Humanizing+Rules%3A+Bringing+Behavioural+Science+to+Ethics+and+Compliance-p-9781394177400
Direct from the publisher DE/CH/AU: https://www.wiley-vch.de/de?option=com_eshop&view=product&isbn=9781394177400&title=Humanizing%20Rules
Direct from the publisher UK: https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Humanizing+Rules%3A+Bringing+Behavioural+Science+to+Ethics+and+Compliance-p-9781394177400
Amazon US : https://www.amazon.com/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Amazon Germany : https://www.amazon.de/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
What is Rail Activism? My guest, Jon Worth, is a proponent of Cross Border Rail within Europe. On this episode, I’m exploring why Jon thinks this is important and how he’s getting his message across.
As you’ll hear, Cross Border Rail is full of Human Risk In Action. I'm also fascinated by how Jon approaches his mission with passion, commitment, and a healthy dose of humour.
On the episode, you’ll learn why I think this subject is so fascinating and how human decision-making by politicians and train operators is filled with Human Risk.
To find out more about Jon and his work, visit: https://jonworth.eu/
To read an article that Jon wrote about our discussion:
https://jonworth.eu/european-railways-and-the-implementation-gap/
To hear the episode featuring Pete Dyson, the co-author of ’Transport for Humans’ that covers related themes:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/pete-dyson-on-making-transport-more-human/
What do we mean when we say we trust a person or an organisation? It’s a word we use a lot that we intuitively understand. Trust plays a vital part in how we interact with others. If we trust someone, we’re more likely to engage with them. If we don’t, we might avoid engaging them or expend extra effort in keeping an eye on what they’re up to.
But what makes a person or organisation trustworthy? Does it matter as much as we might think, and what does the presence or absence of trust do to us?
My guest Hilary Sutcliffe has been exploring trust for several years, so she’s ideally placed to answer these questions and a whole lot more. Hillary is the director of Society Inside, a not-for-profit that supports responsible innovation. She’s also the founder of TIG Tech - a group that promotes the idea of trust in governance for tech companies.
In our discussion, we look at what trust is, why it matters, what the seven key drivers of Trust are, how trust plays out when it comes to technology and innovation and a whole lot more.
You can learn more about Hilary and her work at Society Inside here: https://www.societyinside.com/
Hilary’s LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilary-sutcliffe-01235220/
For more on TIGTech and Hilary’s work on trust in technology - https://www.tigtech.org/about
Hilary's YouTube channel is here: https://www.youtube.com/@SocietyInside/videos
On the show, we discuss:
Rutger Bregman’s book Humankind - https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/humankind-9781408898956/
The Inter-American Development Bank Report on Trust: https://www.iadb.org/en/news/more-trust-will-power-stronger-recovery-latin-america-and-caribbean-idb-report
The Edelman Trust Barometer: https://www.iadb.org/en/news/more-trust-will-power-stronger-recovery-latin-america-and-caribbean-idb-report
Baroness Onora O'Neill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onora_O%27Neill
Doctor Roger Miles: https://www.drrmiles.com/about
Roger previously appeared on the show: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-miles-on-conduct/
Pierre Benoit Jamie - https://ifris.org/en/membre/joly-pierre-benoit/
Matthew Syed’s Book Rebel Ideas - https://www.matthewsyed.co.uk/book/rebel-ideas-the-power-of-diverse-thinking/
To pre-order my book ‘Humanizing Rules: Bringing BeSci to Ethics & Compliance’ visit:
Direct from the publisher US: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Humanizing+Rules%3A+Bringing+Behavioural+Science+to+Ethics+and+Compliance-p-9781394177400
Direct from the publisher DE/CH/AU: https://www.wiley-vch.de/de?option=com_eshop&view=product&isbn=9781394177400&title=Humanizing%20Rules
Direct from the publisher UK: https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Humanizing+Rules%3A+Bringing+Behavioural+Science+to+Ethics+and+Compliance-p-9781394177400
Amazon US : https://www.amazon.com/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Amazon Germany : https://www.amazon.de/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Why is it that when we really like an object, brand or activity, we say that we ‘love’ it? How can we fall in love with brands, things and experiences?
I’m an Apple fanboy, I love my Peloton bike, and given the time of year, it would be remiss of me not to mention how much I really like Christmas markets in Germany.
What’s happening when I feel that way? On the face of it, this doesn’t exactly make much sense. Fortunately, it’s something my guest can help us with. Based at the University of Michigan-Dearborn, Aaron Ahuvia is a Consumer psychologist & marketing professor who studies how we come to love things that aren't people.
Aaron’s book “The Things We Love: How our Passions Connect Us and Make us who we are” shows that we are far less “rational” than we think when it comes to our possessions and hobbies. In fact, we have passionate relationships with the things we love, and these relationships are driven by influences deep within our culture and biology. Some of our passions are sudden, obsessive, and fleeting; others are devoted and lifelong affairs. Some turn dark: we become hoarders or would prefer to destroy certain objects rather than let anyone else own them. And as technology improves, becoming increasingly addictive, one wonders: might our lives become so dominated by our emotional ties to things that we lose interest in other people?
You’re going to — pun fully intended — love this episode.
To find out more about Aaron and his book, visit: https://thethingswelove.com
You can see his faculty page here: https://umdearborn.edu/aaron-ahuvia
To pre-order my book ‘Humanising Rules: Bringing BeSci to Ethics & Compliance’ visit:
Direct from the publisher US: https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Humanizing+Rules%3A+Bringing+Behavioural+Science+to+Ethics+and+Compliance-p-9781394177400
Direct from the publisher DE/CH/AU: https://www.wiley-vch.de/de?option=com_eshop&view=product&isbn=9781394177400&title=Humanizing%20Rules
Direct from the publisher UK: https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Humanizing+Rules%3A+Bringing+Behavioural+Science+to+Ethics+and+Compliance-p-9781394177400
Amazon US : https://www.amazon.com/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Amazon Germany : https://www.amazon.de/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Humanizing-Rules-Bringing-Behavioural-Compliance/dp/1394177402/ref=sr_1_1?
How do our expectations impact our experiences? More than you might think. On this very special episode of the Human Risk podcast, I’m speaking with David Robson, author of ‘The Expectation Effect’.
Joining me in that are two of my favourite podcasters, Kurt Nelson and Tim Houlihan of the Behavioral Grooves podcast. They, like me, were in London for a gathering od Behavioural Science practitioners and so we thought we should mark the occasion by recording a few shows together at an iconic location. And were better to do that, than the Abbey Road studios where artists — most famously the Beatles — recorded some classic albums.
All three of us were intrigued by David’s writings about Expectation. In The Expectation Effect, he takes us on a tour of the cutting-edge research that reveals the many profound ways that our expectations shape our experience. Bringing together fascinating case studies and evidence-based science, The Expectation Effect uncovers new techniques that we can all use to improve our fitness, productivity, intelligence, health and happines
For more on David and his book The Expectation Effect: https://davidrobson.me/books/the-expectation-effect/
To find out more about the Behavioral Grooves podcast visit https://behavioralgrooves.com/
I first appeared on Tim & Kurt’s show here: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/christian-hunt-mitigating-human-risk-and-the-algorithmic-mind/
They also invited me back to talk about Human Risk under COVID: https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/c-19-dont-outsource-your-critical-thinking-with-christian-hunt/
Tim & Kurt appeared on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tim-houlihan-and-dr-kurt/
How do charities and not-for-profits manage human risk? Given the risks they face and the limited budgets they have available to them, they’re often incredibly innovative when it comes to risk management and compliance. This means there are lessons for all of us in a resource-constrained environment.
On this episode, I’m speaking to Sabrina Segal. She began her career as a lawyer before recognising that working in the third sector — bodies that aren’t public or private sector, in other words, organizations undertaking social activities, like charities or NGOs — was what stimulated her.
In our discussion, we explore the challenges the sector faces and how they go about mitigating the broad range of risks they face. Whether that’s humanitarian charities deploying aid workers into disaster or war zones or even running a charity in a developed country that relies heavily on volunteers. All pose huge challenges from a human risk perspective.
To find out more about Sabrina, connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/smsegal/
For her Tolerable Risk podcast: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9iZWVuZXJzNzY3LnBvZG9tYXRpYy5jb20vcnNzMi54bWw
The Human Risk podcast is a Human Risk production: www.human-risk.com
When we are successful, is it down to skill or luck? All too often, we’re inclined to believe the former of ourselves and other people with extremely negative consequences. On this episode, I’m speaking to Odessa Hamilton. She’s a Doctoral researcher in the Inclusion Initiative of the London School of Economics that explores how we can make workplaces more inclusive using Behavioural Science
To find out more about Odessa: https://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/People/Cecily-Josten
For more on the Inclusion Initiative: https://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/archive/tii
To hear the episode featuring her Inclusion Initiative colleague Cécily Josten: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/cecily-josten-on-the-future-of-work/
To hear the episodes featuring Inclusion Initiative Director Dr Grace Lordan:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-grace-lordan-on-inclusion/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-grace-lordan-on-privilege/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-grace-lordan-on-thinking/
What skills do people need to succeed in the 21st century? On this episode, I’m speaking to Cecily Josten. She’s a Research Officer at the Inclusion Initiative from the London School of Economics that explores how we can use Behavioural Science to make workplaces more inclusive.
Cecily’s areas of interest include gender-related inclusion — what are the differences between incentives offered to men and women and the skills of the future — what will determine success going forward?
To find out more about Cecily: https://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/People/Cecily-Josten
For more on the Inclusion Initiative: https://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/archive/tii
To hear the episodes featuring Inclusion Initiative Director Dr Grace Lordan:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-grace-lordan-on-inclusion/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-grace-lordan-on-privilege/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-grace-lordan-on-thinking/
Why does success not always bring happiness?
On this episode, I speak with Laura Gassing Otting, who, in her own words, helps leaders get unstuck.
She is a best-selling author who has previously set up a recruitment agency, helping many leaders to manage their careers on their terms and to carve their own paths. As you'll hear, that means removing some limiting factors like impostor syndrome or having your success defined by others. And she's helped people to get the best out of themselves.
If you're a regular listener to the show, you'll know that I like having people who bring a fresh perspective and help us think differently about the world. As someone who's moved from a corporate career to being self-employed and branching out into a career path that I've defined for myself, I spent a lot of time thinking about what success means when there's no longer a well-trodden path to follow.
You have to start working these things out for yourself. What Laura has to share is fascinating. We often have a view of what success means and how we will get there. Though, when we do reach those pinnacles, it can often be quite disappointing. So if we want to get the best out of ourselves and others, we should listen to people like Laura, who can show us where the traditional models might have flaws.
To find out more about Laura, visit https://www.lauragassnerotting.com/
For more on the 1980s TV series Dynasty https://dynastytv.fandom.com/wiki/Dynasty_(1981)
You can see Laura’s TED Talks:
‘Stop Asking How I Can Help’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYMM9joekdE
‘Why Doesn’t Success Bring Happiness’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be_DhgIVqoI
For more on Laura’s books: https://www.lauragassnerotting.com/books
This episode of the show is an extended version of an interview recorded for the European Compliance and Ethics Community 2022 Conference, a virtual event broadcast from Munich, Germany.
The idea was to bring some local flavour to Europe’s largest Compliance and Ethics event. Since the conference was held in October in Munich, we decided we’d speak to someone who is a prominent figure involved with Oktoberfest.
Michael Käfer is the host of one of the most well-known and popular tents at the fest. If you’ve seen photographs of celebrities at the Oktoberfest, chances are they’ll have been at Käfer. He’s also the owner of one of Munich’s most exclusive restaurants — where we recorded the episode — a chain of delicatessens and an events catering business. He’s a Munich celebrity with some fascinating tales to tell.
During his lifetime, Michael has played host to countless celebrities, set up a nightclub and run a highly successful business. Of particular interest to us, from a Human Risk perspective, Michael is running a business in a highly regulated industry, where he has to manage strict safety regulations and high standards. At the same time, he needs his staff to show flair and creativity in the kitchen and be incredibly engaging and human in providing exceptional service in his business.
In our discussion, we look at Michael’s business and what drives him as a business leader. I ask him how he manages Compliance and innovation while respecting tradition and why vegetarianism is akin to digitisation in his business. Michael also provides fascinating insights about how he runs one of Munich’s iconic brands. For more on the Käfer vegetarian restaurant, visit: https://www.feinkost-kaefer.de/greenbeetle
Michael’s surname, the name of his business, Käfer, also means beetle and ladybird (ladybug for American listeners), which is why the company uses a ladybird as an instantly recognisable icon. For more not this see here: https://www.feinkost-kaefer.de/geschirr-accessoires/kaefer-klassik/
In our conversation, Michael explains how it came about and how chance led to his family being granted a coveted permit to run an Oktoberfest tent. You can see more about this here: https://www.feinkost-kaefer.de/oktoberfest.
We also explore his passion for Bayern Munich football club, what he loves about the city and his recommendations for anyone visiting. You will hear wonderful stories, fascinating business insights and valuable compliance lessons with a uniquely Bavarian flavour.
My huge thanks to EQS Group, the organisers of ECEC2022, for making the interview happen and inviting me to do it as part of the conference. You can find out more about their innovative products for Compliance, Investor Relations and Whistleblowing here: https://www.eqs.com/en-gb/.
To learn more about the European Ethics & Compliance Community and pre-register for the 2023 event, visit: https://www.ecec-community.com/.
The video of my interview with Michael will be available here: https://www.ecec-community.com/session/human-risk.
For more about Käfer, visit https://www.feinkost-kaefer.de/.
To see Michael’s book Der Geliehene Freund (the borrowed friend): https://www.edelbooks.com/book/der-geliehene-freund-hardcover-978384198179/
What risks do emerging technologies like the Metaverse and Empathic AI pose? While most of us are aware of data privacy and manipulation risks, we tend to think of them in the context of known technologies like social media. What happens when the tech becomes more immersive? The answer is that areas like human rights come under threat. On this episode, I’m joined by Kate Jones, an Associate Fellow at Chatham House, an independent policy institute. She began her career as a government lawyer and became a diplomat before developing an interest in human rights and emerging technologies. In her research, Kate explores topics such as governance of new technologies, the ethical implications of artificial intelligence and the prevention of online harms and political manipulation.
In a wide-ranging discussion, Kate and I explore:
- How her career took her from the law, to diplomacy and onto the risks of emerging tech
- The Metaverse and the rationale for regulation in emerging tech;
- The need for governance over the deployment of emerging tech;
- Human rights: what they are, how they are sadly misunderstood and how the human rights movement is shooting itself in the foot;
- AI, ethics and human rights
- The risks of empathic AI
- The future of managing the risks of emerging tech
- The relevance of ESG to emerging managing emerging tech risk; and
- The role investors can play in resolving this.
To find out more about Kate, visit her website: https://katejones.uk/
For more on her work with Chatham House: https://www.chathamhouse.org/about-us/our-people/kate-jones
To read her paper on Online Disinformation and Political Discourse: Applying a Human Rights Framework
: https://www.chathamhouse.org/2019/11/online-disinformation-and-political-discourse-applying-human-rights-framework
During our discussion, we also talk about:
The article that Kate wrote on the importance of regulating the Metaverse: https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/the-metaverse-like-regulating-social-media-but-on-steroids/
The Metaverse:
https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-the-metaverse
https://www.vice.com/en/article/93bmyv/what-is-the-metaverse-internet-technology-vr
https://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahlovich/2022/05/11/what-is-the-metaverse-and-why-should-you-care/
The EU Digital Services Act: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/digital-services-act-package
GDPR, the General Data Protection Regulation: https://gdpr-info.eu/
The UK Human Rights Act: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights/human-rights-act
The UN Human Rights Council Panel on Disinformation & Human Rights: https://www.ohchr.org/en/statements-and-speeches/2022/06/high-level-panel-discussion-countering-negative-impact
Caroline Criado Perez’s Invisible Women: https://carolinecriadoperez.com/book/invisible-women/
The UN Sustainable Development Goals: https://sdgs.un.org/goals
Empathy in AI: https://www.kairos.com/blog/empathy-in-ai-series-part-1-what-is-empathy
What does comedy have to do with cyber risk? More than you might think. My guest on this episode Ian Murphy specialises in both, using comedy to produce content that makes people more aware of cyber security risks.
Ian is the founder of CyberOff, which in his words “breathes life into cyber security training”. He does that using incredibly compelling content that relies heavily on comedy.
During our discussion, we explore how Ian went from being a semi-professional football player via the British Ministry of Defence and then onto CyberOff. On the way, he provides insights about growing up in Liverpool and some very frank views about what’s wrong with way many organisations approach cyber risk. What Ian has to say is just as relevant to other contexts like ethics and compliance.
To find our more about Ian’s work visit https://www.cyberoff.co.uk/
To find Ian’s content on social media, visit:
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/cyber0ff
LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmurphy/
Twitter — https://twitter.com/CyberOffUK
During our discussion, we talk about:
UK TV quiz show Red or Black -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_or_Black%3F
You can watch some of Ian’s appearance here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34oA76Gbayk
TV presenters Ant & Dec who hosted Red or Black - https://www.antanddec.com/
Simon Sinek on Leadership - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSUJwmPQEyg
Scouse, the dish that gives Liverpudlians their nickname - https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/speke-hall-garden-and-estate/recipes/scouse
A series of sketches called The Scousers by comedian Harry Enfield (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Enfield) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scousers
You can watch an example of a sketch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaccLMuLa7o
Anfield, the home of Ian’s football club Liverpool FC - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfield
The City of Liverpool - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool
Some of Ians’ videos:
- Password requirements - https://twitter.com/CyberOffUK/status/1529739693784547328?s=20&t=23ts84mnHDzBrkYAXvC-mA
- Daniel Radcliffe rap - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ianmurphy_cybersecurity-securityawareness-cyber-activity-6967774282244345856-NJ6i?
- Spice Girls theme - https://twitter.com/CyberOffUK/status/1529031999272411138?s=20&t=xrGia5NvbcEqxzJcAiLeaQ
- Professor Brian Cox theme - https://twitter.com/CyberOffUK/status/1527207648172589057?s=20&t=xrGia5NvbcEqxzJcAiLeaQ
- Rick Ashley theme - https://twitter.com/CyberOffUK/status/1522174477655814145?s=20&t=xrGia5NvbcEqxzJcAiLeaQ
What do Magic and Alchemy have to do with human decision-making?
This episode — the 200th! — is the second part of a discussion with Paul Craven and Rory Sutherland. If you missed the first episode, I recommend starting with that, as some topics flow across both halves. You'll find it here:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-paul-craven-on-alchemy-magic/
Paul began his career in Finance with over 30 years working for Schroders, PIMCO and Goldman Sachs and now works in Behavioural Science. Rory is the author of Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense and the Vice Chairman of Ogilvy.
Links that are relevant to the show:
Paul Craven - https://www.paulcraven.com/
Rory Sutherland - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/?
Rory's book Alchemy - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/430379/alchemy-by-rory-sutherland/9780753556528
The Walton Ten Foot Rule - https://www.walmartmuseum.com/content/walmartmuseum/en_us/timeline/decades/1980/artifact/2648.html#:~:text=The%2010%2Dfoot%20Rule%20is,if%20I%20can%20help%20them.%E2%80%9D
Deirdre McCloskey on 'Sweet Talk' - https://www.deirdremccloskey.com/docs/humanomics.pdf
An interview with Kumal Gahotra of Ford where he talks about the emotions involved in customer's car purchasing decisions: https://s23.q4cdn.com/799033206/files/doc_events/archive/Ford-2019-JPM-Auto-Conference-Transcript.pdf
An article on FAB - Features, Advantages & Benefits - https://www.scottyschindler.com/selling-with-fab-features-advantages-and-benefits/
The David Ogilvy advertisement for Rolls Royce that references the noise the clock makes: https://swiped.co/file/rolls-royce-ad-by-david-ogilvy/
The Chanson de Roland - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Roland
Jean-Paul Sartre - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Paul_Sartre
The Theatre of the Absurd - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_of_the_absurd Franz Kafka - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafka
Tristan Harris' article on how technology is hijacking our minds - https://medium.com/thrive-global/how-technology-hijacks-peoples-minds-from-a-magician-and-google-s-design-ethicist-56d62ef5edf3
Morgan Housel's book The Psychology of Money - https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Psychology_of_Money/5HrrDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
A video demonstrating Tesla's Dog Mode - https://youtu.be/T2rbdMlmpYY
Joshua Jay 'How Magicians Think' - https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-books/how-magicians-think/
Scott McCloud's book 'Understanding Comics' - https://scottmccloud.com/2-print/1-uc/index.html
To hear previous episodes of the show featuring:
Paul - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-on-magic-money/
Rory - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Rory & Gerald Ashley Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory & Gerald Ashley Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
Paul & Gerald Ashley Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-paul-craven/
Paul & Gerald Ashley Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-gerald-ashley/
What do Alchemy and Magic have to do with human decision-making?
On this episode, I’m joined by two Behavioural Science gurus who have both been on the show before: Rory Sutherland and Paul Craven. Rory is the author of Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense. Paul Craven is a magician and member of the prestigious Magic Circle. So that’s both bases covered!
Since the show is approaching its 200th episode — this is the 199th — I thought I ought to celebrate it. So I did what we always do when we celebrate special occasions and decided to replicate the winning formula I used last time. On that occasion, I was joined by Rory Sutherland and Gerald Ashley. Since then, I’ve also recorded a doubleheader with Gerald and his and Rory’s good friend Paul Craven. Like Rory and Gerald, Paul has also done a solo appearance on the show.
So for two episodes, I’m joined by Rory Sutherland and Paul Craven.
In our discussion — and I’m just talking about this episode here — we talk about framing, ethics, Sludge, electric cars, the best joke at this year’s Edinburgh festival — warning, it’s an adult joke — the Pratfall Effect, or why making mistakes can make us seem more human, ho one man saved the world from a nuclear war, the Beatles, how we look at data and so much more. Links to all of those are below.
Paul Craven - https://www.paulcraven.com/
Rory Sutherland - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/?
Rory’s book Alchemy - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/430379/alchemy-by-rory-sutherland/9780753556528
Economist Nicholas Gruen - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Gruen
French magician Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Eug%C3%A8ne_Robert-Houdin
Former guest Gerald Ashley referring to Paul as a conman - https://twitter.com/HumanRiskLtd/status/1395316840105234432?s=20&t=7v2vbVi0FoiyzozKY9soug
Marks & Spencer’s ‘Dine In For Two’ Deal - https://www.marksandspencer.com/c/food-to-order/dine-in
Edward De Bono - https://www.debono.com/
Germany’s ’two click to unsubscribe’ law - https://www.thelocal.de/20220303/how-germany-is-making-is-easier-for-consumers-to-cancel-contracts/
Sludge - https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2021/09/29/you-cant-nudge-if-youve-got-sludge/
[Warning: the most controversial show note ever. Contains adult content. Spanish Comedian Ignacio Lopez on Dogging. Here’s what the term means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogging_(sexual_slang)].
Here’s the joke: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=246981890669484
A
The BBC series My Life As A Rolling Stone - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m0018zwp/my-life-as-a-rolling-stone
The Donald Trump video where he spends a lot of time choreographing a glass of water - https://www.indy100.com/celebrities/donald-trump-interview-table-water
The movie ‘The Big Short’ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Short_(film)
Nick Leeson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Leeson
Rogue Trader, the movie about Leeson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Trader_(film)
Stanislav Petrov, the man who presented World War Three - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
Gerd Gigerenzer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_Gigerenzer
Gerd’s book Risk Savvy - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/181878/risk-savvy-by-gigerenzer-gerd/9780241954614
The Chinese Maths problem featuring 26 sheep and 10 goats - https://www.businessinsider.com/viral-chinese-math-question-2018-1?
To hear previous episodes of the show featuring:
Paul - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-on-magic-money/
Rory - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Rory & Gerald Ashley Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory & Gerald Ashley Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
Paul & Gerald Ashley Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-paul-craven/
Paul & Gerald Ashley Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-gerald-ashley/
What role does Trust play in Compliance?
This episode sees the return of the very first guest I ever had on the podcast, Professor Yuval Feldman of Bar-Ilan University in Israel. I asked Yuval to help me launch the show because his book “The Law Of Good People’ was a major influence on my human risk work. So, as we approach the 200th episode of the show, I wanted to get him back to
say thank you for all that he’s inspired and because I know that COVID has provided him with some amazing opportunities to further his research. Not only has he been helping the Israeli government to manage its response to the pandemic, but he’s also been able to find ways to use live under COVID as a large-scale field experiment.
In the show, we talk about the lessons Yuval has learned from his work during COVID, and his new book on Trust. He also shares his insights into his own experiences of compliance.
Links to issues we discuss:
Yuval’s first appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-why/
His book ‘The Law of Good People’ - https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/law-of-good-people/DEB07C540F75D5D3B0A53B2499722F70
His faculty webpage - https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldman
Professor Katy Milkman of Wharton - https://www.katymilkman.com/
Responsive Regulation by Ian Ayres & John Braithwaite - http://johnbraithwaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Responsive-Regulation-Transce.pdf
Personalised Law by Omri Ben-Shahar & Ariel Porat - https://global.oup.com/academic/product/personalized-law-9780197522813?
The blog by writer Ian Leslie that explores why Diversity & Inclusion teams should include people that don’t agree with D&I - https://ianleslie.substack.com/p/down-with-pronouns?
You can hear Ian’s appearance on this show here - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ian-leslie-on-conflict-/
The research project Yuval did with Maryam Kouchaki and Francesca Gino about how the choice of language in a code of conduct impacts people’s responses to it- https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=56179
As employers adjust to a post-pandemic world, how can they design working practices that minimise human risk and maximise human reward?
My guest, Phil Libin, is an experienced CEO with some fascinating insights to share on what he calls ‘The Out Of Office World’. He’s the former CEO of Evernote and the co-founder and CEO of All Turtles, a product studio that solves what they describe as meaningful problems.
I first came across All Turtles when looking for a solution to make video presentations more engaging. In 2020, they launched a product called mmhmm which, in their words — and I’d agree — gives you ‘communication superpowers’. I’ve been using it ever since.
While our discussion begins with mmhmm, it’s the story of what the software inspired that I find really interesting. Because when All Turtles began using it internally, they also discovered a more effective way of working. What mmhmm inspired was the recognition that the perception we all have of video as a poor substitute for ‘in person’ meetings is wrong. There are certain activities that can be improved by the use of video — particularly asynchronous video — and recognising that ‘face to face’ time is so valuable means changing how we use that time. As Phil points out, he’s not created a blueprint for how all companies should think about working; it’s what works for them. But the ideas behind it are something that can inspire all companies.
To find out more about All Turtles, visit — https://www.all-turtles.com/
For mmhmm, the app that gives you ‘communication superpowers’ - https://www.mmhmm.app/home
The demo that I did of how I use mmhmm is here: https://www.mmhmm.app/blog/christian-hunt-compliance-expert
All Turtles also produces some fascinating videos and podcasts on the Out of Office World. Here’s a video that explains the philosophical underpinnings of their approach - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBKIMhGO8WA
I also recommend watching the mmhmm ‘Degrees of Freedom’ video podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHL6dBk6wAE
How did Behavioural Economics — or as I prefer to call it, Behavioural Science — evolve as a field? On this episode, I’m exploring that question with Professor Viswanathan Raghunathan, an academic who was previously the chairman of a large private bank.
Raghu,as he likes to be known. is the author of a new book called ‘Irrationally Rational: Ten Nobel Laureates script the story of Behavioural Economics’ which (unsurprisingly!) looks at the development of Behavioural Economics,through the work of ten Nobel laureates.
In an engaging narrative Raghu explores what each of them brought to the field and how their work is relevant in the modern world.
In our discussion we explore:
- Raghu’s interest in Behavioural Economics
- How he came to write the book
- The rationale for choosing the lens of Nobel laureates to review the field
- How he went about selecting stories and anecdotes that would make the work of the Laureates relevant to a 2022 audience
- The growth of Behavioural Science in India and what we can learn from that
- The challenges of implementing BeSci in India
- His plans for the future
To find out more about Raghu visit his website: http://www.vraghunathan.com/
To order the book..
In the UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics/dp/0143458167/
In the US: https://www.amazon.com/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics-ebook/dp/B09X78MC2R
In India: https://www.amazon.in/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics-ebook/dp/B09X78MC2R
To learn more about Human Risk visit www.human-risk.com
For more on the Diversifi Behavioural Science network of which Human Risk is a founder member: https://www.diversifiglobal.com/
How can Behavioural Science help us better manage our financial affairs? Why should we still invest in oil companies if we believe in green energy? What does how we taste wine tell us about human decision-making?
All of these questions, and a lot more, are answered on this episode of the Human Risk podcast, where I’m joined by my guest Behavioural Finance expert Dr Greg Davies.
Greg has been on the show before. You’ll find that episode which he recorded together with Stuart Tootal, here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/stuart-tootal-greg-davies/
He works for Oxford Risk, a fintech that, in their words, ‘empowers financial institutions to provide hyper-personalised advice to their clients, for today and for a lifetime of financial decisions’. In our discussion, we explore three topics:
-
The challenges of making sound financial decisions and how an understanding of Behavioural Science can deliver better outcomes. Because, as Great explains, we’re not naturally good at making the best financial decisions for the longer term. Greg also shares some fascinating insights about how a combination of machines making diagnoses and humans prescribing solutions can lead to optimal outcomes.
-
Sustainability - Greg explains why counter-intuitively, we should continue to invest in fossil-fuel businesses and why promoting sustainable investments solely based on the returns they generate is missing an opportunity.
-
Finally, we talk about Behavioural Winetasting and why the way in which we taste wine can help us to understand flaws in human decision-making.
It’s an eclectic mix, but as you’ll hear, they’ve all got one thing in common — they’re things Greg can talk insightfully and passionately about.
To find out more about:
- Greg, see his LinkedIn and Twitter profiles: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregbdavies/ and https://twitter.com/GregBDavies
- Oxford Risk see their website: https://www.oxfordrisk.com/
- Behavioural Winetasting: https://www.johndownes.com/behavioral-wine-tasting
During our discussion, we also refer to other episodes of the podcast:
- Professor Olivier Sibony on ’Noise’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-olivier-sibony-on-noise/
- Nicole Ludvik-Smith on ’Skydiving & Stunts’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/nicole-smith-ludvik-on-skydiving-stunts/
How can we make sense of what we're told about risk? We're bombarded with messages on subjects ranging from COVID to the economy from people that range from genuine experts to those with no expertise but strong opinions. On this episode, I'm speaking to Professor David Spiegelhalter.
David is Chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication within the Department of Pure Mathematics and Mathematical Statistics at Cambridge University. The Centre is dedicated to improving the way that quantitative evidence is used in society.
Listeners in the UK will almost certainly have seen or heard David. Since the start of the pandemic he’s been a regular fixture on TV and radio, helping to make sense of the things we're being told about the virus. In a world of self-appointed experts whose only qualification is from the University of YouTube and untrustworthy politicians telling us they’re "following the science", he’s been a voice of clarity and common sense.
In our discussion, we explore what drives David’s interest in statistics, why we like to see connections between things that might not actually be there, why the mantra of “following the science” is nonsensical and whether there is such a thing as coincidence. David also provides plenty of practical tips for communicating and interpreting messages about risk.
As you might expect for someone who specialises in risk communication, David is really good at getting his message across in ways we can all understand. My huge thanks to long-time friend of the show Roger Miles, who helped to make this conversation possible.
To find out more about David, visit his academic website: https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/about/people/professor-sir-david-spiegelhalter/
or his personal website: https://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~david/
You'll find his books in all good bookstores. For more information, visit:
The Art of Statistics — https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/294857/the-art-of-statistics-by-spiegelhalter-david/9780241258767
COVID by Numbers — https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/126755/david-spiegelhalter
For video content, I recommend:
Communicating statistics in the time of COVID — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW9plVfanjo
False Positives — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmiEzi54lBI
Be Prepared To Show Your Working — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E12_F4xeOHw
In our discussion, we also refer to the episode featuring Tim Harford on using Data to Make Smarter Decisions. You can hear that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tim-harford-on-using-data/
How can we make work suck less? That’s what my guest Carina Maggar explores in her new book. She’s a creative copywriter who has worked with a number of leading brands including Pepsi, Levis, YouTube and Nintendo. As a student, Carina did a variety of jobs and while doing them she paid close attention to all the things she found interesting — things that stood out for some reason or another — and took notes. Those notes and some interviews she did with some other creative thought leaders form the basis for her new book How To Make Work Not Suck: Honest Advice for People With Jobs. It’s a collection of 120 irreverent, unusual, straight-talking insights about the world of work.
I really enjoyed reading her book and thought her insights, though incredibly simple, were really insightful, so I wanted to get her on the show.
In our discussion, we explore:
- What a copywriter does and how that’s relevant to Carina’s book;
- What inspired her to write the book;
- The process she went through in designing and writing the book;
- How her insights about work have shaped Carina’s thinking;
- The pieces of advice in her book particularly inspired me; and
- Her thoughts on careers and why conventional wisdom might not always apply.
To find out more about Carina visit www.carinamaggar.com
To see some sample pages of her book visit https://www.carinamaggar.com/howtomakeworknotsuck
How can companies manage the risks posed by the stress their senior leaders face? That’s what Says Life, the company founded by my guest on this episode, Jennifer Thamm, is looking to solve.
Says Life helps companies mitigate Human Risk at a leadership level by providing senior executives with a service that allows them to manage stress in their lives; whether at work or home.
Says Life works with the senior leader to help them identify where stress might arise and arrange appropriate support for them and their families, whether or not it's directly work-related. They also provide the employer with anonymised, aggregated data on the human risks facing their leadership, so the company can look to address the aspects it can control.
This fascinates me from a Human Risk perspective because it addresses two key areas:
- The fact that people in senior positions have a lot of industry experience doesn’t mean they don’t need psychological support to do their role. In fact, they might need more of it.
- What influences human decision-making inside work can be heavily influenced by what is happening outside of it.
Historically these things have been difficult for companies to explore. Both because the data wasn’t available, but equally because of understandable privacy concerns on the part of employees who might want to keep their private lives private.
In our discussion, Jennifer explains the logic behind the Says Life business model, and we explore how she is thinking about mitigating human risk for senior leaders.
To find out more about Jennifer and Says Life:
https://www.sayslife.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferthamm/
What happens when a journalist investigates one of the biggest scams in history? My guest on this episode, Jamie Bartlett is the author of ‘The Missing Cryptoqueen’, which tells the tale of his multi-year investigation into the disappearance of Dr Ruja Ignatova.
Dr Ruja is the founder of OneCoin, a cryptocurrency that sold itself as an alternative to Bitcoin but was instead a pyramid-style scam which relieved people from 175 countries of at least £4 billion.
The Missing Cryptoqueen is also the title of a BBC podcast that Jamie presents which explores the astonishing story behind OneCoin. In our conversation, Jamie explains how the One Coin scam worked, how he came across the story and what happened when he began to investigate it.
We begin our conversation by exploring Jamie’s early research into the Dark Net and how technology impacts our decision-making. He explains to my why, in many respects, algorithms prompt a reaction in us that is not dissimilar to religion.
In that discussion, we talk about the English Defence League. More on them here: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/understanding-the-english-defence-league-life-on-the-front-line-of-an-imagined-clash-of-civilisations/
To hear the BBC podcast on The Missing Crypto Queen - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07nkd84
To learn more about Jamie’s book - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/112/1120307/the-missing-cryptoqueen/9780753559581.html
How did a journalist with a relentless appetite for the truth, bring down a $30bn German tech company? The company in question is Wirecard and the journalist is my guest on this episode, FT reporter Dan McCrum. He’s just released a new book called ‘Money Men: A Hot Startup, A Billion Dollar Fraud, A Fight For The Future’ in which he explores both the story of Wirecard and its downfall and the efforts he went to as a journalist to investigate it.
In what was one of the — if not the — financial investigations of the decade, Dan and his FT colleagues pursued a story of fraud, that is ready-made for a movie. Yet, it's a real-life story that reveals hidden worlds of short-sellers and whistleblowers, pornographers and private militias, hackers and spies. In Money Men, Dan explains not only the story of WireCard but also how he and his colleagues went about investigating it.
In our discussion, we explore:
- How Dan became a Financial Times journalist;
- The types of story he likes to investigate and why WireCard fascinated him;
- The lengths reporters need to go to, in order to get to the story;
- How short sellers helped provide valuable insights;
- The astonishing response of the German authorities to the Wirecard story;
- Some incredible stories that unfolded as Dan investigated;
- The personal toll such a story takes on a reporter;
- The role of cognitive biases in reporting and our perception of the world.
To find out more about Money Men, which is out now, visit https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/144/1444756/money-men/9781787635043.html
The German version is called The House of Wirecard: https://www.ullstein-buchverlage.de/nc/buch/details/house-of-wirecard-9783430210645.html
To learn more about Dan’s investigation you can read this FT profile:
https://www.ft.com/content/745e34a1-0ca7-432c-b062-950c20e41f03
Dan also spoke at ECEC — Europe’s largest Ethics & Compliance Conference in 2020 – you can watch a recording of that here: https://www.eqs.com/compliance-knowledge/events/ecec-mccrum/ .
ECEC is returning soon, so do join me at ECEC 2022 in October. You can get your free virtual ticket here:https://www.ecec-community.com/
How can we be better at negotiating and why does it matter?
When we think of negotiation, we tend to think of formal situations like buying a house, sealing a business deal or getting a hostage released. But it also applies to many of our day to day conversations, where we’re looking to achieve a particular outcome.
My guest on this episode Fotini Iconomopoulos had a childhood nickname of ‘The Negotiator’ and she’s been doing it ever since then. Fotini specialises in helping executives around the world to get better deals and trains their teams to negotiate more effectively. She is the author of a best selling book “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want” and she teaches MBA students at York University's Schulich School of Business in Canada.
Fotini’s insights can help all of us to have better conversations - whether we’re formally negotiating, or just having a discussion where there are a series of potential outcomes. If we get better at negotiating, we can make better decisions and deliver better outcomes. In short, we can reduce human risk.
In our discussion, we explore what negotiation is, why it matters and how we can all be better at it. You’ll also hear some thoughts on simple techniques we can all deploy to be better negotiators and why ‘I win, you lose’ isn’t the only available strategy; often a ‘win:win’ outcome is possible, if we think creatively about how we might get there.
My huge thanks to Professor Todd Kashdan who was kind enough to introduce me to Fotini as someone I should get onto the show. He wasn’t wrong. So if you liked this episode, do also listen to the one featuring Todd where he talks about constructive insubordination: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-todd-kashdan-on-insubordination/
To find out more about Fotini, her book “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want” visit her website: https://fotiniicon.com/
You’ll find her on social media:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/fotiniicon
Twitter - https://twitter.com/fotiniicon?
LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/fotiniiconomopoulos
To be notified when new episodes of the show are released subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk?
What is Creative Courage & why do we need it?
On this special episode of the show — which I’m releasing between the normal schedule — my guest James Victore helps me to explore why being creative is a matter of courage and why we should embrace it.
A word of warning: the episode contains lots of adult language. It’s also one that some regular listeners will absolutely love and some o really won’t. Which is ok from my perspective. The point of the podcast isn’t to produce bland content that might appeal to everyone. It’s to bring you episodes that I hope will stimulate you and brign different perspectives.
James Victore is an artist, designer and author. He’s also a trainer and coach who helps people to unleash their creative sides. Having read his book Feck Perfuction — yes, that is the title — I wanted to get him on the show.
I’m also in the middle of one of James’ courses. Called, appropriately enough The Bad Ass Way. And yes, I paid full price for the course, so he’s on the show because I think he’s awesome, not for some commercial arrangement.
On the show you’ll learn what creativity is, why it matters, how we can find it, why we often don’t get the chance to display it and the risks/rewards of making a career of it.
I love this episode and I hope you will too.
To find out more about James, his book Feck Perfuction and his awesome courses visit: www.jamesvictore.com
You can also find him on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamesvictore/
Why did a group of hackers with links to North Korea launch a cyber attack on Sony Pictures in 2014? That’s what journalist Geoff White set to find out. In doing so, over a period of several years, he uncovered a trail of criminal activity that included a bank heist, data leaks and money laundering.
On this episode, Geoff, whose new book The Lazarus Heist tells the story of what he discovered, explains how Geoff came to investigate the story, how he went about researching it and the lessons he’s learned from doing so. We also examine some of the dynamics of the issues the story raises, including cybercrime, money laundering and electronic warfare.
It’s an astonishing tale that has human risk all over it.
To find out more about Geoff visit: https://geoffwhite.tech/
To pre-order The Lazarus Heist book: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/447/447163/the-lazarus-heist/9780241554258.html
To hear the podcast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads
To be notified when new episodes of this show come out visit: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk
What is ESG and why might it lead to poor decision-making?
You probably know it’s short for Environmental, Social, and Governance; an acronym that covers three topics of interest to investors. In simple terms, three things they look for to determine how environmentally and socially conscious the company is. Or in even simpler terms, is this a good, ethical company?
As regular listeners will know, this isn’t an investment podcast, so what’s the human risk angle here? Well, metrics like ESG are a good example of how we develop systems - in this case metrics that are ways of analysing the way in which companies are run — that allow us to answer complex questions. There’s nothing wrong with keeping things simple. Yet, as ESG illustrates, those systems can sometimes over-simplify the world such that we miss things, induce unintended consequences and feel good about ourselves when in fact we really shouldn’t.
So I wanted to explore what ESG is and the flaws of looking at the world through the artificial lens it creates.
My guest on this episode is Alison Taylor. She’s the Executive Director of Ethical Systems, part of NYU Stern School of Business, which is a collaboration between leading academics working on behavioural science, systems thinking and organizational psychology. Ethical Systems aim to help companies build more ethical and effective cultures via approaches based on credible research. We are dedicated to driving a more holistic and considered approach to the future of corporate integrity, beyond functional silos.
Alison has been on the show before - there’s a link to that below — and is always incredibly insightful and great company.
In our discussion, we dissect what ESG means — in theory, and in practice — and explore how companies are responding to it. That takes us onto questions such as ‘how are companies responding to social trends like ‘Black Lives Matter’, ‘are companies right to insist that people return to the office/work from home’ and ‘should companies have a position on every social issue that comes up?’.
To find out more about Alison and Ethical Systems visit ww.ethicalsystems.org/
You’ll find her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/followalisont and LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/followalisont/
Discover the Breaking The Fever podcast here: https://www.ethicalsystems.org/breaking-the-fever-podcast/
I
How can we manage the ethical challenges faced in business?
On this special episode of the show, I’m speaking to Professor Josephine Nelson, the co-author of a brand new book called ‘Business Ethics: What Everyone Needs To Know’. Josephine — who publishes as JS Nelson — is a Professor of Business Ethics (Law) at Villanova Law School and is currently a visiting professor at Harvard business school.
The episode is special because I’m releasing it just a few days after recording as an extra episode between the regular schedule. That usually only happens when I’ve recorded an episode about something topical in the news. Ethics is something I’ve covered before (links to relevant episodes below).
The reason I’m rushing this episode out is personal. Not because I have to resolve many ethical issues in my business — though, as you’ll hear, we all have to deal with them on an ongoing basis and if you think you don’t, watch out! Instead, because of the considerable number of times I’ve found myself talking about the ideas shared by my guest since recording. The insights provided by Josephine have come up so many times, in such a short period, that I wanted to get the episode out asap. In part, so the clients I’ve already spoken to about them — and those I undoubtedly will — can hear it directly from her. That hopefully also means it’s highly relevant to you.
Josephine’s insights in the book and on the show aren’t just relevant to our work environments. They can also help us to think about the decisions made by companies we engage with — or choose not to — politicians we vote for - or don’t — and those with whom we surround ourselves — or don’t.
The episode contains some very simple observations about ethics. But don’t let the simplicity fool you. They’re astonishingly insightful and practical. I can’t recommend the book enough, and I’m really excited to bring you this episode because what Josephine has to say is incredibly important. And if you think that means an overly serious episode, think again. As you’ll hear, Josephine is a lot of fun, and there’s lots of laughter.
To find out more about Josephine’s work at Harvard Business School - https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=876714
To learn more about the book she co-authored with Lynn Stout, “Business Ethics: What Everyone Needs to Know” and to explore her areas of research, visit Josephine’s website - https://www.jsnelson.net/
During our discussion, we talk about
Josephine’s previous appearance on the show, a cross cast of Alison Taylor & Jerome Tagger’s Breaking The Fever Podcast on Workplace Surveillance: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-j-s-nelson-on/
Professor Yuval Feldman’s work on writing rules for ‘Good People’ - https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/Feldman%20The%20Law%20of%20Good%20People.pdf
The Boeing 737 Max Scandal - https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/cold-call-what-went-wrong-with-the-boeing-737-max
The Wells Fargo Cross-Selling Scandal - https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/06/the-wells-fargo-cross-selling-scandal-2/
The Wells Fargo Fake Account Scandal - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/business/wells-fargo-settlement.amp.html
The Volkswagen Diesel Scandal - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772.amp
The Johnson Johnson Baby Powder Scandal - https://www.forbes.com/sites/korihale/2022/03/02/johnson--johnson-attempts-to-side-step-100-million-baby-powder-settlement/
Her co-author Lynn Stout — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_A._Stout
Mary Gentile’s system called ‘Giving voice to Values’ which Josephine describes as “how to speak truth to power, without getting fired” — https://givingvoicetovaluesthebook.com/
‘Ethics Unwrapped’ from the McComb School of Business at the University of Texas — https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/
How Swiss Bank Credit Suisse tried to track down a whistleblower — https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/39731/credit-suisse-calls-in-expert-help-to-hunt-down-whistleblower
Some of the other ethics-related episodes of the show:
Ruth Steinholtz on Ethical Cultures - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ruth-steinholtz-on-ethical-cultures/
Dr Sarah Eaton on Ethics in Academia - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-sarah-eaton-on-ethics/
Dr Todd Haugh on the Behavioural Aspects of Ethics & Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-todd-haugh-on-the/
Rob Chestnut on how companies can help their employees to work with integrity - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rob-chesnut-on-how-companies/
Rabbi Yonason Goldson on a Rabbi’s View of Ethics -https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rabbi-yonason-goldson-on-a/
Maarten Hoekstra on Ethics: ‘making the good doable’ -https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/maarten-hoekstra-on-ethics-making/
How can we implement Behavioural Science in larger organisations?
On this episode, I’m doing a deep dive into practical Behavioural Science with three practitioners from across the globe, who talk about some of the projects they’ve been working on.
My guests are all from Ogilvy Consulting, a leading Behavioural Science practice and each work in different regions.
Heather Watson heads up Ogilvy’s North American BeSci team from Austin, Texas, Dan Bennett is responsible for the UK and is based in London and Paolo Mercado is in Manila.
To connect or learn more about them:
Heather - https://www.linkedin.com/in/heathernwatson/
Dan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thebestdanielbennett/
Paolo - https://www.linkedin.com/in/paolo-mercado-0a4a8a17/
The idea behind the episode is to illustrate the breadth of challenges to which Behavioural Science can be put to use. You’ll hear about improving customer experience, protecting people who work in safety-critical industries by helping them to change their behaviour to be more compliant with safety protocols and how Behavioural Science can help improve sales of consumer products. We also explore some of the challenges of deploying Behavioural Science in larger organisations – the obstacles, both practical and political – and the fact that we can sometimes end up proposing counter-intuitive or unorthodox solutions, which work brilliantly but can defy the logic by which normal corporate decisions are made. But that’s the whole point. Behavioural Science allows us to come up with effective solutions to common business problems, that can’t easily be solved by traditional thinking.
It’s also an opportunity for us to preview Nudgestock, Ogilvy's annual festival of behavioural science and creativity and get some clues about what you can expect.
You can find out more about Nudgestock at www.nudgestock.com
To be notified when new episodes of the show are available subscribe to the podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk
If you enjoy this episode, you can find my discussions with other members of the Ogilvy BeSci team:
Maddie Croucher who talked to me about how BeSci can help fundraising: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/maddie-croucher-on-behavioural-science-for-fundraising/
Sam Tatam introduced his book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ on how Mother Nature can inspire BeSci solutions https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sam-tatam-on-evolutionary-ideas/
Benoit de Fleurian explained how BeSci is helping to reduce anti-social behaviour https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/benoit-de-fleurian-on-preventing/
And, last but definitively not least, Rory Sutherland talked about Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
How can we travel adventurously while still being sustainable? I’m a huge fan of exploring, but I’m also very conscious of my environmental footprint.
On this episode, I’m speaking to Sustainable Adventurer Wiebe Wakker. He’s a Dutchman who likes exploring the world in an environmentally friendly ways.
Wiebe came to my attention earlier this year when we went from Amsterdam to Dubai by train for an environmental conference. That wasn’t his first adventure. He’d previously spent 3.5 years travelling from The Netherlands to New Zealand by electric car. That journey means that Wiebe holds the current world record for completing the longest ever electric car trip in the world covering a distance of about 95,000 kilometres.
In our discussion, we explore what inspires Wiebe to undertake his adventures, what he’s learned from doing it and I explain how he’s influenced me.
To find out more about Wiebe, visit his website: https://plugmeinproject.com/
You’ll find him on social media:
Twitter - https://twitter.com/wiebewkkr?lang=en
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/plugmeintravel/?hl=en
LinkedIn - https://nl.linkedin.com/in/wiebewakker
During our discussion, we talk about:
Seat61.com - an amazing website for planning train adventures
How can charities use Behavioural Science to be more effective at fundraising? It’s a question a number of listeners have asked me to explore; either because they work for charities or because they want to help their favourite causes to raise more money. Even if neither of those things apply, what we can learn from how charities can be better at raising funds, is relevant in other contexts.
My guest on this episode is Maddie Croucher, a behavioural science practitioner who specialises in interventions to support social impact work. Maddie has boosted fundraising income for Christian Aid, helped improve donor retention for DKMS - an international nonprofit bone marrow donor centre - and developed interventions to tackle malnutrition with The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
She’s also the co-author of a book called Change for Better that provides practical help for fundraisers.
In our discussion, we talk about:
Change For Better, the book Maddie co-authored - https://www.dsc.org.uk/publication/change-for-better/
It's also available on Kindle - https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Change-Better-Bernard-Ross-ebook/dp/B09X5SDBKV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1UVA9QO1BGHFU&keywords=Change+for+better&qid=1650660657&sprefix=change+for+better%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-1
The Jam Experiment — an experiment that highlighted how Choice Overload (having too many options) can make it harder for people to decide, so they often don’t bother. https://medium.com/@FlorentGeerts/the-jam-experiment-how-choice-overloads-makes-consumers-buy-less-d610f8c37b9b
Charity Water - a charity that seeks to address the fact that 771 million people lack basic access to clean and safe drinking water. https://www.charitywater.org/
Wikipedia’s annual fundraising - https://medium.com/@chriskfundraising/why-doesnt-social-proof-work-for-wikipedia-fundraising-65d55a047911
The Pillion Trust’s ‘Fuck The Poor’ campaign - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rElgYNemi1A
Gift Aid, the UK scheme that allows taxpayers to increase teh size of tier charitable donations by reclaiming tax - https://www.cafonline.org/my-personal-giving/plan-your-giving/individual-giving-account/how-does-it-work/gift-aid
Nudgestock, Ogilvy’s Annual Behavioural Science Festival which this year is on June 10th - https://nudgestock.com/
The Ogilvy 2022 Behavioural Science Annual Report - https://www.ogilvy.com/ideas/behavioral-science-annual-2022
You can follow Maddie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/maddie_croucher
To be notified whenever a new episode of the show comes out, subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter - https://bit.ly/3skhz1Q
What does behaviour have to do with procurement? On the face of it, not much. But as my guest on this episode David Loseby explains, behind every procurement and supply chain operation, there are human beings involved in the design and management of the processes.
In other words, they’re areas that present huge opportunities for human risk to manifest itself. As David, who specialises in helping companies to manage the behavioural dynamics behind operational decisions, explains, there are trade-offs that need to be made. Just in time processes can deliver lower costs by reducing the need to warehouse stock and tie up working capital. But, as we saw under COVID, they’re also extremely vulnerable when things don’t go according to plan.
If we ignore human decision-making and what can be done to mitigate the risks it poses. It’s also worth remembering that if companies have a procurement function, it means that the amount of money they’re spending on procurement activities is large enough to justify the function's existence. Which is great if they get things right. But not so good when they get things wrong.
David has over 25 years of experience at a senior executive/director level driving value and change through procurement and organisational transformation.
His varied background enables him to draw on not only his various global experiences, sector diversity and responsibilities within many Public Bodies as well as FTSE 100 companies.
During our discussion, we talk about
- David’s background & research: https://research-portal.uea.ac.uk/en/persons/david-loseby
- David’s book Soft Skills for Hard Business: https://www.cambridgeacademic.com/product/soft-skills-for-hard-business
-
The VUCA framework short for volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatility,_uncertainty,_complexity_and_ambiguity
-
The COM-B model of behaviour change https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/organizational-behavior/the-com-b-model-for-behavior-change
-
The Tanker driver who was followed by a line of drivers, who discovered that he wasn’t carrying fuel: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58767230
You can get hold of David via his LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-loseby-cpochangeexecdir/
To be notified of new episodes of the show, subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk
What makes a good leader? When we think of leaders, we often imagine lone, inspirational figures lauded for their behaviours, attributes, and personal decisions. However, leaders also have an impact on the way people around them make decisions.
My guest on this episode is Professor Don Moore. Don is the Lorraine Tyson Mitchell Chair in Leadership and Communication at Berkeley Haas and serves as Associate Dean for Academic Affairs.
Don is the co-author of a book with Professor Max Bazerman called Decision Leadership: Empowering others to make better choices, that explores the idea of organisations in the 21st century as decision factories in which effective effective leaders are decision architects, enabling those around them to make wise, ethical choices consistent with their own interests and the organization’s highest values. As a result, a leader’s impact grows because it ripples out instead of relying on one individual to play the part of heroic figure.
To find out more about Don: https://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/moore-don/
To learn more about Decision Leadership: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300259698/decision-leadership/
To hear Don’s previous appearance on the show:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-don-moore-on-confidence/
To hear the previous episode of the show with Wendy Lambourne on Legitimate Leadership: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/wendy-lambourne-on-legitimate-leadership/
What distinguishes a good leader from a bad one?
My guest on this episode, Wendy Lambourne is a proponent of Legitimate Leadership — the idea that to have real power, leaders need to have legitimacy. Not by dint of being appointed, but by the way in which they fulfil their role.
She believes that leaders stand or fall at the end of the day on the basis of their intent, or motive. Or to put it another way, whether they’re in the relationship to give to their people, or to get something out of them.
Since leadership is all about people leading other people, there’s lots of potential for human risk.
In our discussion we explore:
- how Wendy came to discover the idea of Legitkamte Leadership (LL);
- what LL means in practice;
- how leaders can manifest it;
- the difference between authority and power;
- what the implications are for businesses of adopting LL; and
- what Wendy has learned from teaching the framework to others.
To learn more about Legitimate Leadership see https://legitimateleadership.com/
To buy Wendy’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Wendy-Lambourne/e/B00CASM2C4?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_5&qid=1614152045&sr=8-5
When we need to solve problems, we often think we need to develop new ideas. But what if that were wrong?
On this episode, I’m joined by Behavioural Science practitioner Sam Tatam whose new book Evolutionary Ideas shows how behavioural science and evolutionary psychology can help us solve tomorrow’s challenges. Not by divining something the world has never seen, but by borrowing from yesterday’s solutions – often in the most unexpected ways.
Sam is Global Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy. His passion is understanding human behaviour, and his experience comes from organisational/industrial psychology and advertising strategy.
From New York to Nairobi, Sam has led behaviour change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioural economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world's most influential brands and organisations.
Links to some of the things we discussed on the episode:
To learn more about Sam’s book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ which will be published in May 2022 - www.harriman-house.com/evolutionaryideas
To buy the book - https://linktr.ee/evolutionaryideas
To watch Sam’s presentation at Nudgestock 2021 about Evolutionary Ideas - https://youtu.be/7q6rfcRWf08
A presentation on Biomimicry at Nudgestock 2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTpgEwgUS4
An introduction to TRIZ, a Theory of Inventive Problem Solving - https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCT_92.htm
An explanation for Sam's reference to singer Ronan Keating - https://youtu.be/IobNcpiwpSc
To hear Ogilvy Vice Chairman (the founder of the team Sam leads) Rory Sutherland’s appearances on this show:
Rory on Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Rory & Gerald Ashley on Networks - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory & Gerald on Prosilience - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
How do we measure the effectiveness of Compliance programs? It sounds like a simple question, but it is actually hard to answer. And it's not just a challenge facing Compliance Officers.
If you work in Ethics, Risk or even as a Regulator, you'll recognise the dynamic. You've probably either been asked to demonstrate the effectiveness of your program or had questions asked about your budget or resources. And usually, that's not because they want to give you more.
It's equally possible that you might have wondered how good a job you're doing. I know I did when working as a Regulator and as a Compliance Officer.
Now, whatever the reason for the question, it's not an easy one to answer. Because part of it involves proving a negative, you can easily show that you've helped make good things happen, but it's much harder to demonstrate that you've stopped bad things. This is why we often turn to input metrics like 'number of hours of training delivered' or the number of times we executed a particular control. That's interesting, but it doesn't tell you how effective the outcome is. Or isn't. Just because someone has been on a course, and done a little exam, doesn't mean the risk the training is designed to mitigate has been reduced.
So how can we best do that? That's what my two guests on this episode were interested in. One of them, Professor Benjamin Van Rooij, has been on the show four times — links to his previous appearances are below. The other, Professor Melissa Rorie, is making her debut. Together, they've edited a book called Measuring Compliance: Assessing Corporate Crime and Misconduct Prevention which contains chapters written by several eminent experts. Contributors to the book Todd Haugh, Ricardo Pelafone & Florentin Blanc have also previously been guests on the show. There are links to those episodes below.
If you work in a function whose role is to mitigate Human Risk, feel free to substitute the word Compliance for whatever you're responsible for ——–— because it's still relevant — then what Melissa and Benjamin have to say will be of interest.
Because if you don't know how to measure the success of what you do, then there's even less chance that anyone else — say someone who sets your budget, someone who is trying to assess the quality of your program or someone who determines your compensation — will be able to.
To find out more about the book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/measuring-compliance/5C1378AB4F9814D0C41198AEF9A5B6D2
For more on Melissa & her research: https://www.unlv.edu/people/melissa-rorie-phd
For more on Benjamin & his research:
https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html
In our discussion, we talk about:
Hui Chen & her work at the DOJ: https://huichenethics.com/about/
Ricardo Pellafone & his work at Broadcat: https://www.thebroadcat.com/ricardo-pellafone
Florentin Blanc & his work at the OECD: https://oecd-events.org/digital-security-for-prosperity/speaker/f46fd492-79c3-eb11-94b3-000d3a219024
Rita Faria's book (co-authored with Olga Petintseva & Yarin Eski) called Interviewing Elites, Experts and the Powerful in Criminology https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-33000-2
The research on signing at the top of documents to encourage honesty https://www.wired.com/2012/08/signature-honesty/ & the recent findings that it failed to replicate: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1911695117
The story of Abraham Wald: https://www.rigb.org/explore-science/explore/blog/how-not-be-wrong#:
Professor JS Nelson on Workplace Surveillance https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3504408
Previous episodes featuring contributors to the book
Benjamin Van Rooij on COVID Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-1/
Benjamin on The Behavioural Code - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on/
Benajmiong & Dany Sokol on Compliance 2.0 - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-benjamin-van-rooij/
Ricardo Pellafone on Behavioural Design in Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-why-compliance/
Ricardo Pellafone on the challenges facing Risk & Compliance under COVID - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-the-challenges/
Florentin Blanc on Regulatory Responses to COVID 19
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/florentin-blanc-on-regulatory-responses/
Dr Todd Haugh on Behavioural Aspects of Ethics & Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-todd-haugh-on-the/
Ever had a terrible customer experience? Of course, you have. They’re very common. But why? My guest Michael Bartlett has just written a book on the dark side of customer experience - in other words, the processes that companies engage in that irritate the hell out of us.
The purpose of Michael’s book isn’t — you’ll be pleased to hear – to help companies make their processes more irritating. Rather it's to help them identify when they might inadvertently do things that will turn otherwise loyal customers into people haters. Not only does he shine a light on practices that make this happen, but he also proposes some solutions for how to avoid them happening in the first place.
Even if you’re not in the business of managing frontline customer services, what Michael highlights is of interest, because it can help you to understand why certain things are really irritating. And, if you work in a function like Compliance, Ethics, Information Security or HR that designs processes for employees, then what applies in a customer service context, also applies in your world.
You can connect with Michael here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbartlettccxp/
You’ll find Michael’s book The Dark Side of CX here: https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-CX-patterns-customers-ebook/dp/B09T2B9LR9
In our discussion, we explore:
The ADKAR change management model https://www.knowledgetrain.co.uk/change-management/change-management-courses/change-management-models/adkar
Jeanne Bliss on Chief Customer Officer 2.0m - https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Chief+Customer+Officer+2+0%3A+How+to+Build+Your+Customer+Driven+Growth+Engine-p-9781119047643
Joe Wheeler on Managing the Customer Experience: Turning Customers Into Advocates: https://www.pearson.com/uk/educators/higher-education-educators/program/Smith-Managing-the-Customer-Experience-Turning-customers-into-advocates/PGM571623.htm
To hear the podcast episodes I mention featuring:
(i) Roger Dooley on Friction - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-dooley-on-friction/
(ii) Professor Camilla Andersen on Comic Book Contracts - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-camilla-andersen-on-comicbook-contracts/
Why might an innocuous-sounding word we all use, result in a social injustice? The answer is: when that word is ‘accident’. It’s something we hear all the time. “Sorry, it was just an accident” or “there’s been a traffic accident’.
But have you ever stopped to think about the impact the word has? I hadn’t until I read the book by my guest journalist Jessie Singer. In ‘There Are No Accidents’, she explains that the vast majority of mishaps are not random but predictable and preventable. What’s more, the term “accident” also changes how we look at things that go wrong. Perhaps surprisingly, the word protects those in power and leaves the most vulnerable in harm’s way, preventing investigations, pushing off debts, blaming the victims, diluting anger, and even sparking empathy for the perpetrators.
During our discussion, Jessie explains how the death of a close friend prompted her to write the book and what she’s learned from studying a wide range of accidents and why we need to think differently about accidents if we want to save lives and build a more just society.
To find out more about Jessie’s book There Are No Accidents: The Deadly Rise of Injury and Disaster — Who Profits and Who Pays the Price visit https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/There-Are-No-Accidents/Jessie-Singer/9781982129668
To find out more about Jessie, visit her website - http://jessiesinger.com/
During our discussion, we talk about:
The concepts of Jay Driving — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-driver and the more common Jay Walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking
Hugh Dehaven, the pilot who pioneered crash injury research - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_DeHaven
The Grenfell Tower Fire — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire
Grenfell was also covered in an episode of this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Find part one here: 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/
Grenfell also features on this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Part One here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/
The Electric Hummer - https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39270970/hummer-ev-proves-were-making-all-the-same-mistakes-again/
Why might insubordination be a good thing? Normally when we use that word, it’s seen as a negative. But there’s an alternative interpretation, where insubordination is seen as a positive, constructive challenge to traditional orthodoxy. For ideas to evolve and societies to progress — in other words, if we want to mitigate human risk - we need to cultivate rebels who are committed to challenging conventional wisdom and improving on it.
But change is never easy. And it's not easy being a rebel. Particularly if you don’t have the skills to overcome hostile audiences who cling desperately to the way things are. Which is where my guest comes in.
He’s Todd Kashdan, Professor of psychology and director of the Well-Being Laboratory at George Mason University in Virginia. Todd’s research explores why people suffer, with an emphasis on the transition from normal to pathological anxiety.
Todd has just written a book called ‘The Art of Insubordination: how to dissent and defy effectively’, which provides a toolkit for constructive insubordination.
When I first came across Todd’s book — with huge thanks to friend of the show, Dr Zoe Chance — It’s incredible. It’s a book I wished I’d read decades ago and one I’m nos repeatedly dipping into as I work on delivering my human risk mission of bringing behavioural science to ethics & compliance.
In our discussion, we explore what prompted Todd to write the book, why insubordination can be a good thing, what the obstacles are to being insubordinate and what we can all do to bring more insubordination into our lives.
Some of the things we discuss on the show:
Todd and his research: https://toddkashdan.com/
The Art of Insubordination: how to dissent & defy effectively - https://toddkashdan.com/the-art-of-insubordination/
Serge Muscovici - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Moscovici
Dr Zoe Chance & her book ‘Influence Is Your Superpower’ - https://www.zoechance.com/
Hear Zoe on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-zoe-chance-on-influence/
Professor Vanessa Bohns & her book ‘You Have More Influence Than You Think’ - https://www.vanessabohns.com/
Hear Vanessa on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-vanessa-bohns-on-influence/
David Foster Wallace & his novel Infinite Jest - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Jest
L’esprit de l’escalier, the idea that we always think of the perfect answer after the event - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27esprit_de_l%27escalier
What should you listen to when you’ve heard the entire Human Risk podcast back catalogue? I'm glad you asked. Because one of the aims of the show is to explore ideas, stories and people that can help to inspire us to think differently about human risk. And that includes pointing you in the direction of other content producers who have interesting things to say.
On this special episode, I’m introducing a fellow podcaster who produces content that I think you’ll find interesting. Daniel Ross is the host of A Load of BS. The BS, of course, stands for Behavioural Science.
Like this podcast, A Load of BS is a series of discussions with a wide range of people which seeks the answer as to why we do what we do and what can be done to influence that for good outcomes.
Rather than just recommending you subscribe to Daniel’s show and newsletter, I thought I'd invite him into the studio for a chat. So, on this episode, I’m taking all things BS with Daniel Ross.
You’ll find Daniel’s newsletter here: https://aloadofbs.substack.com/
His show is available on all the major platforms, here's the link to the Apple Podcast feed: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-load-of-bs-the-behavioural-science/id1575240086
Why should businesses get involved in politics? Traditionally companies have tried to avoid getting involved in political issues, because remaining apolitical, means you avoid offending anyone. But in the 21st century, there is an increasing expectation that companies will take a position.
As we’ve seen with the invasion of Ukraine, businesses have been taking steps to engage with the public mood. Some have ceased doing business in or with Russia or Russian clients, others have provided humanitarian support to refugees or practical help to the Ukrainian government.
So what’s happening and how can companies navigate those challenges.
That’s what my guest Dr Joe Zammit Lucia has just written a book about.
In The New Political Capitalism: How Business and Societies Can Thrive in a Deeply Politicized World, Joe explores how modern businesses need to reflect the social values and cultural trends which shape the environment in which businesses operate and how an incredibly politicised set of stakeholders — from customers to employees and investors — are expecting companies to have a perspective on political issues.
In our discussion, Joe explains to me why companies should and need to get involved in political issues and what that means for the way they’re run.
We recorded this before the invasion of Ukraine took place, which is why there’s no reference to it in our conversation.
To find out more about Joe’s book The New Political Capitalism visit: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/new-political-capitalism-9781472990198/
You can read more about him here: https://radixuk.org/executiveboard/joe-zammit-lucia/ You can also follow Joe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/joezl
To hear the episode of this show featuring Béatrice Otto on the role of the Fool — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/beatrice-otto-on-fools/
What drives people to follow careers that involve dangerous activities like skydiving & stunts? My guest is Nicole Smith-Ludvik, a professional skydiver and stuntwoman. Last year, Nicole starred in two incredible advertisements for Emirates, the Dubai based airline which featured Nicole standing on the top of the world’s tallest building, the Burj Khalifa.
If you haven’t seen the advertisements — and I recommend watching them before you listen to the show — then you can watch them here:
Original ad from June 2021- https://youtu.be/uQHhYRuaEtM
The second ad featuring the Airbus A380 from January 2022 - https://youtu.be/fbL9QdWWJzo
Behind The Scenes of the Original ad - https://youtu.be/HagU3vUp0Ck
Behdin The Scenes of the Second ad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAR1j6UfoG0
What I find fascinating about Nicole is that she’s chosen a carer that involves taking real risk. Many of us talk about risk, but she actually runs genuine risk. And yet, as you’ll hear, she thinks very carefully about how she manages it.
In our discussion, I learn how Nicole came to be interested in sky diving, how she thinks about risk, what she does to manage it, and what appeals to her about a carer that involves jumping out of planes. Of course, we explore the Emirates ads and I learn how they came about, what went into filming them and — world exclusive here – what Nicole would love to do if they ever film a third one.
To read more about Nicole and her career:
https://www.khaleejtimes.com/lifestyle/a-widow-at-25-to-surviving-a-critical-accident-how-nicole-smith-ludvik-made-it-to-the-top-of-the-b
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/middle-east/who-is-nicole-smith-ludvik-know-the-woman-who-stood-on-top-of-burj-khalifa-in-emirates-ad.html
My thanks to Emirates for giving permission for Nicole to appear and to Dr Roger Miles for the idea of inviting her on.
You can hear Roger’s previous appearances on the show here:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-miles-on-conduct/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/human-risk-webinar-recording-conduct/
Why would a bicycle delivery company ban its riders from wearing helmets? Depending on where you're reading this, you'll either think it's normal — hello, for example, to my Netherland's based listeners 🇳🇱 — or irresponsible. On this episode, I'm speaking to Ben Knowles, the CEO of PedalMe who is the man behind the company that made that decision.
I'd heard of PedalMe, but not their policy. That changed, when they posted a thread on Social Media explaining the rationale behind it. Not only did they say why, but they posted details fo their risk management framework. It contained some fascinating insights and ideas.
I wrote a LinkedIn blog on the subject, that sparked a lot of interest. You can read that — and watch a clip of Ben on a UK TV show discussing the subject — and see the debate it sparked here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/humanrisk_ethics-compliance-behaviouralscience-activity-6897141777678041088-CKwL
Given the level of interest, I thought I'd ask Ben onto the show and he agreed. So, in this special episode — special because I'm getting it out between teh normal schedule to encourage further discussion — I talk to Ben. We explore:
- how Ben got into cycling & promoting cycling
- where the idea for PedalMe came from and how they think about risk
- why banning helmets is part of their attempt to reduce risk compensation
- how they incentivise staff to report incidents
- their leadership model
and a whole lot more.
To learn more about Pedal Me visit https://pedalme.co.uk/
You'll find them on social media:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pedalmeapp/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/pedalmeapp
To find Ben:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-knowles-49137748/
Why is something that happened in Iceland in 2008 still of relevance today? The answer is revealed by my guest Jared Bibler. He's the author of a book called 'Iceland's Secret: The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Con'.
Having started his career working for a Wall Street Bank, Jared moved to Iceland in 2004, supporting the Icelandic pension funds' foreign investments. He resigned from his job at a leading Icelandic bank days before the 2008 Icelandic financial crisis and was subsequently hired to head a special investigation team at the Icelandic markets regulator. Jared and his team referred more than 30 criminal cases to the Special Prosecutor of Iceland, including the largest stock market manipulation cases to be prosecuted globally.
In our discussion, we talk about Jared's career and what he learned while working on both sides of the regulatory fence. This is a tale of Human Risk on an epic scale — I thought I knew a lot about the Icelandic story, but what Jared reveals in his book is mindblowing!
We also discuss Jared's motivation in writing the book and the response he's had both in Iceland and elsewhere. As you'll discover, there are many parallels between what happened in Iceland in 2008 and what is going on in other contexts today.
For more on Jared and his book, visit https://icelandssecret.com/
To learn about Iceland's history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iceland
Mount Ejsa which dominates Reykjavik - https://visitreykjavik.is/city-areas/mosfellsbaer/mount-esja#
The collapse of Lehman Brothers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers
Bethany Maclean, the reporter who broke the Enron story - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_McLean
Jolabokaflod the Icelandic tradition of giving books for Christmas - https://www.countryliving.com/life/a46204/jolabokaflod-iceland-christmas-reading-tradition/
Jared's webinar with Transparency International (in Icelandic) - https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=434772941474117
Russell Napier - https://russellnapier.co.uk/
How can comic books reduce human risk? We've all seen airline safety cards that use imagery to communicate complex messages in a simple to understand way. So why couldn't we use that same logic for legal contracts? That's what my guest Professor Camilla Andersen, set out to discover when she stumbled across the idea during a conversation with a colleague.
That led to the creation of Comic Book Contracts (CBCs). In our discussion, Camilla talks to me about the genesis of the idea and how CBCs are being and could be used. We also explore some of the unexpected benefits of this concept and how it doesn't just help people who aren't legal professionals. Surprisingly, it also has an impact on corporate culture.
Listener Warning: the episode contains adult language.
To find out more about Comic Book Contracts & see some examples visit the CBC website: https://www.comicbookcontracts.com/
For more on Camilla and her work at the University of Western Australia visit: https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/persons/camilla-andersen
To learn about Alternative Contracting, the business run by Camilla's husband that provides practical support in implementing the Comic Book Contracts: https://www.alternativecontracting.biz/
Links to some of the other topics we discuss:
Relational Contracting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_contract
The Aurecon Visual Employment Contract - https://www.comicbookcontracts.com/aurecon-contract
BankWest's Banking With Less BS - https://www.bankwest.com.au/about-us/bank-less
How can we become more influential?
That’s a question that fascinates my guest on this episode, Dr Zoe Chance. She teaches a course on it at Yale and has just published a new book called Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen.
In our discussion, we explore the simple ways in which we can all be more influential and how that can help us to fulfil our potential.
To learn more about Zoe visit her website: https://www.zoechance.com/
You’ll find Zoe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoebchance?s=20
For more on Influence Is Your Superpower: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603636/influence-is-your-superpower-by-zoe-chance/
If you haven’t heard the previous episode of the show featuring Professor Vanessa Bohns, then do listen to that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-vanessa-bohns-on-influence/
Some of the other things we discuss during the show:
Influence by Dr Robert Cialdini - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28815.Influence
Predictably Irrational by Professor Dan Ariely - https://danariely.com/books/predictably-irrational/
Restauranteur Danny Meyer at Yale - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN0afaCP-rA
The Game by Neil Strauss - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/900.The_Game
Former US President Jimmy Carter - https://www.cartercenter.org/about/experts/jimmy_carter.html
Two articles on poster Prince & his charisma - https://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2013/05/28/improve-your-charisma-and-how-prince-did-it/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/how-princes-charisma-helped-him-7814476
Former US President Bill Clinton - https://www.clintonlibrary.gov/
The Secret Life of Pronouns by James Pennebaker - https://www.secretlifeofpronouns.com/
Thinking Fast & Slow by Professor Daniel Kahneman - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-and-slow
Explanation of Systems One & Two - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow
Jonathan Haidt’s Elephant & Rider analogy - https://www.creativehuddle.co.uk/post/the-elephant-and-the-rider
Zoe’s tweet on why she doesn’t use the Elephant & Rider - https://twitter.com/zoebchance/status/1099743978868654081
Jessica Calarco’s research on kids asking for help - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0003122411427177
Illusionist Derren Brown - https://derrenbrown.co.uk/
A video on the paperclip challenge introduced by Zoe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmNmMpBJN0
The Luck Factor by Richard Wiseman - https://richardwiseman.wordpress.com/books/
Apple CEO Tim Cook - https://www.apple.com/uk/leadership/tim-cook/
Former US President Barack Obama - https://barackobama.com/
This episode is the second part of my discussion with Gill Kernick about the Grenfell Tower Disaster and the broader lessons we can draw from it.
In the previous episode, Gill and I talked about Grenfell. I recommend listening to that before listening to this one. You'll find it here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/
Using historical examples like the 17th century Great Fire of London and a fire in the late 1990s at a gas plant in Australia, Gill illustrates that we didn't adequately learn many lessons from those incidents.
I wanted to explore Gill's more significant picture thinking - having looked at past examples relevant to Grenfell, what lessons has she learned about human behaviour?
Links to subjects we discuss:
Gill's website - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/
GIll's book - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/catastrophe-systemic-change-the-book/
The Great Fire of London - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_London
What can we learn from the UK's largest residential fire since World War Two, in which 72 people died? The Grenfell Tower disaster happened in the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea, one of London's wealthiest areas. As a result of catastrophic decision-making — both by those responsible for maintaining the building and those responding to the fire — what should have been a containable fire turned into a blazing inferno.
In this episode, I explore how those decisions were made and what we can learn from a human risk perspective. My guest, Gill Kernick, is a former resident of Grenfell Tower who works in high hazard industries to develop safety, leadership and culture. She's also the author of a book called Catastrophe and Systemic Change: Learning from the Grenfell Tower Fire and Other Disasters.
In this, the first of two parts, Gill and I discuss Grenfell and the human risk lessons that provides.
In Part Two, we talk about the other disasters she explores in her book and what we can learn from them.
Links to the topics we discuss:
Gill's website - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/
GIll's book - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/catastrophe-systemic-change-the-book/
The Grenfell Tower Fire Wikipedia entry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire
A BBC explainer on Grenfell - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289
The Piper Alpha Disaster - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Alpha
ACM Cladding - https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/ACM_cladding
The Grenfell Tower Enquiry - https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/
The Lakanal House Fire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakanal_House_fire
Conservative politician Jacob Rees-Mogg's comments on the Grenfell Tower residents' 'lacking common sense' in following the Fire Brigade's instructions - https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/ring-rees-mogg/grenfell-survivors-demand-apology-jacob-rees-mogg/
UK Prime Minister Theresa May's reaction to Grenfell - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44440479
Opposition Leader Jeremy Corbyn's reaction to Grenfell - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/he-leader-need-jeremy-corbyn-10629102
Deepwater Horizon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill
How did the Post Office deliver one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history?
My guest Nick Wallis, is a journalist and radio presenter who has written a book called The Great Post Office Scandal which explains how a billion pound IT system, unleashed an enormous legal, ethical and political scandal.
As Nick explains on the show, hundreds of sub-postmasters were alleged to have engaged in theft, false accounting and/or fraud and were taken to court by the Post Office. This resulted in criminal convictions, imprisonment, loss of reputation and livelihood, bankruptcy, divorce, and even suicide amongst those involved.
It subsequently transpired that it wasn’t people that were at fault, but rather the billion point IT system that the Post Office had installed as part of a modernisation program. In our discussion, we explore how the Scandal occurred, Nick’s experience in investigating it and what lessons we can learn.
This is a tale of appalling human decision-making with serious consequences. It’s about as human risk-relevant as it gets.
To learn more about the subjects we discussed on the show:
Nick’s website - https://www.nickwallis.com/
Nick’s book The Great Post Office Scandal - https://bathpublishing.com/products/the-great-post-office-scandal
The BBC Radio 4 podcast - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j
BBC Radio Surrey - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_surrey
The BBC Radio Surrey Twitter account - https://twitter.com/BBCSurrey
The Justice for Subpostmaster’s Alliance - https://www.jfsa.org.uk/
BBC TV’s Inside Out South program featuring Nick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ2FLuFVGMg
The Wikipedia page for the Post Office Scandal with links to court hearings and other relevant documents - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
Infected Blood Scandal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_blood_scandal_in_the_United_Kingdom#Background
Windrush Scandal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal
Hillsborough Disaster - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster
Professor Richard Morehead - https://socialsciences.exeter.ac.uk/law/staff/moorhead/
Darren Jones MP on Artificial Intelligence - https://thebristolcable.org/2018/06/artificial-intelligence-robots-and-the-future-of-society-interview-with-darren-jones/
The Horizon Scandal Fund - https://www.horizonscandalfund.org/
What does Sustainability have to do with Compliance?
On this episode, I’m speaking to a Compliance innovator that has combined both. Dr Sarah Tischler is Head of Compliance for NKG, the world’s largest coffee trading company. Since NKG is privately owned and isn’t operating in a regulated industry, on the face of it, they’re not the kind of company you might naturally expect to have a compliance function. And up until a few years ago, they didn’t. Until Sarah came along and persuaded them that they needed one and created a role for herself.
Not only has she built out her function, but she’s also added to her responsibilities by taking on responsibility for Sustainability under what they call their Responsible Business Program. Now, you may be wondering what a subject like sustainability has to do with compliance — which was my reaction when I first met Sarah and she told me what she did. But having heard her explanation it not only makes perfect sense, but it’s surprising that more firms haven’t adopted this approach.
In our discussion, we talk about how Sarah persuaded NKG to establish a Compliance function, what her approach to the role is, how Behavioural Science supports that and the rationale behind and practicalities of combining it with Sustainability.
Relevant links:
Professor Johan Lambsdorff - https://www.wiwi.uni-passau.de/wirtschaftstheorie/
NKG - https://www.nkg.de/
The German Supply Chain Due Diligence Act - https://www.bmas.de/EN/Services/Press/recent-publications/2021/act-on-corporate-due-diligence-in-supply-chains.html]
The World Economic Forum paper on the rise of Chief Integrity Officers - https://www.weforum.org/whitepapers/the-rise-and-role-of-the-chief-integrity-officer-leadership-imperatives-in-an-esg-driven-world
What is kindness and why does it matter? One of my New Year's resolutions for 2022 is to be kinder to others. So, in this episode, I'm learning more about what being kind means — spoiler alert, it doesn't mean always being nice — and why that matters.
My guest Sebastian Boo is a trainer, tutor and researcher at the London School of Economics and Political Science and the founder of Kindness Advantage Ltd, a company that brings kindness training to the workplace. So he knows what he's talking about when it comes to kindness. During our discussion, we explore what kindness is — in particular why it might not mean what we tend to think it means — why it matters and what we can practically do to be kinder.
Aside from having a fascinating conversation with Sebastian, the other reason for getting him onto the show is to publicise my resolution so there's hopefully more chance of me sticking to it. Let's see...
During our discussion we talk about:
Kindness Advantage https://kindness-advantage.com/
Kindness: A Pocket Guide https://kindness-advantage.com/the-book
Professor David Canter’s ( ) research on measuring kindness entitled ‘Development of a measure of kindness’ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351889065_Development_of_a_measure_of_kindness
An interview with Professor Paul Bloom on his book Against Empathy: https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/19/14266230/empathy-morality-ethics-psychology-compassion-paul-bloom
Against Empathy - https://www.google.com/books/edition/Against_Empathy/op67CwAAQBAJ?hl=en
The study undertaken at Coca Cola Span on acts of kindness called Everyday Prosociality in the Workplace: The Reinforcing Benefits of Giving, Getting and Glimpsing - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317355148_Everyday_Prosociality_in_the_Workplace_The_Reinforcing_Benefits_of_Giving_Getting_and_Glimpsing
The Isle of Skye - https://www.isleofskye.com/
Why do we live in such a polarised world and what can we do to minimise the dynamic?
On this episode, I’m joined by Alex Chesterfield and Ali Goldsworthy, two of the co-authors of a book called Poles Apart - Why People Turn Against Each Other and How To Bring Them Together. They’re also two of the co-hosts of the Changed My Mind podcast that talks to people who have changed their minds on big issues.
Alex Chesterfield is a behavioural scientist with a master's degree in Cognitive and Decision Science. Forever curious about why we do what we do, she currently works in financial services, leading a team of behavioural scientists to help get better outcomes for employees and customers. For four years, she was an elected Councillor in Guildford for the Conservative Party. She has personally experienced the effects of affective polarisation, both in and out of the workplace. She has been on the show before & you can hear that episode here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alex-chesterfield-on-behavioural-regulation/
Ali Goldsworthy has been a political adviser and campaigner for more than twenty years. A former Deputy Chair of the Liberal Democrats, she led the team that built the fastest-growing campaigning organisation in the UK. In 2017 she was a Sloan Fellow at Stanford, co-creating its first depolarisation course. A board member of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, Alison has won numerous awards for her work. She has written for the Telegraph, Independent, New Statesman, The Times and Financial Times.
In the episode, we talk about the genesis of the podcast and the book and what Alex and Ali have learned from writing it. We also explore some of the key dynamics that drive polarisation, including social media, and the techniques we can all deploy to minimise it in our lives and in society.
Poles Apart book - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/111/1119814/poles-apart/9781847942951.html
For more on the Changed My Mind Podcast visit — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/author/the-depolarization-project/
The specific episodes we referred to:
Derek Black on why he left the White Nationalist movement — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/leaving-white-nationalist-movement-with-derek-black/
Ayman Diem on why he switched from being an Al Qaeda bombmaker to an MI6 spy — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/podcasts/podcast-changed-my-mind/changed-my-mind-al-qaeda-bombmaker-mi6-spy/
Cass Sunstein on why he changed his mind about the stability of US democracy — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/podcasts/podcast-changed-my-mind/changed-my-mind-american-democracy-cass-sunstein/
We also discussed:
LBC Radio presenter James O’Brien — https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/
Twitter — https://twitter.com/mrjamesob?
James’ Full Disclosure podcast — https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/42KqCF/
‘Gamergate’ on Reddit — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign)
Psychologist Milton Lodge — https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/polisci/people/_faculty/Lodge_Milton.php
Dan Kahan — https://law.yale.edu/dan-m-kahan
Jonathan Haidt — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt
Chantal Mouffe — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chantal_Mouffe
Agonism — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonism
Ian Leslie’s book Conflicted — http://ian-leslie.com/conflicted/
Amy Edmondson on Psychological Safety — https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=6451
The online course (MOOC) in association with Cambridge University — https://www.edx.org/course/polarisation?
What do fools have to do with managing human risk? On the face of it, they’re likely to be a driver, rather than a solution. But when we use the term to describe in the context of court jesters, then the answer might be very different.
As my guest on this episode, Béatrice Otto, helps me to understand. She’s the author of a book called Fools Are Everywhere: The Court Jester Around The World, which explores the history of the role. I’m fascinated by this from a human risk perspective because the comedy deployed by jesters provided them with a very effective vehicle for highlighting flaws in human decision-making. By permitting the jester to make jokes about what they had observed, the monarch or emperor would receive feedback they wouldn’t get from elsewhere.
In our wide-ranging discussion, we explore the role of the fool, how they came to be appointed, the limits of what they could say and some of the cunning techniques they deployed to get their point across. Béatrice explains how the role came about, why the fool no longer exists and why perhaps it should.
My thanks to my former colleague and regular listener to the show, Simon Rogerson, who first pointed out to me the relevance of court jesters to risk management.
To find out more about the issues we discuss on the show:
The book Fools Are Everywhere - https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/F/bo3615397.html
Béatrice’s website - https://www.foolsareeverywhere.com/
To sign up for her newsletter - https://www.foolsareeverywhere.com/
The job description for corporate fools - https://www.foolsareeverywhere.com/blog-fools-job-description/
If you missed the previous episodes featuring comedian and impressionist Josh Berry:
Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-one/
Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-two/
This episode is the second part of my discussion with comedian & impressionist Josh Berry. If you haven't yet listened to the first part, I recommend you do that, before listening to this.
You'll find Part One here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-one/
In this episode, we discuss how Josh's interest in human decision-making drives his comedy and explore further aspects of his work. Links to specific topics we discuss are below.
To find out more about Josh, his Rafe Hubris diaries, his tour and his other work visit www.joshberryofficial.com.
To avoid missing out on his latest sketches, follow Josh on social media:
Twitter — https://twitter.com/JoshBerryComedy
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/JoshBerryImpressions
Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/joshberrycomedy/
YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtucDoyC9QQyibS8BY3Vew
In this episode, we discuss:
- Adrian Mole, a fictional diariast - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Mole
-
Four Lions, a satire by Chris Morris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Lions
-
Comedian Tommy Tiernan - https://www.tommedian.com/
-
Dave LaChapelle's Netflix special. Watch a trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1UEj_6T1RE. and the show here: https://www.netflix.com/title/81228510
-
The tale of Sisyphus from Greek mythology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus
-
Comedian Michael Spicer - https://www.michaelspicer.co.uk/ and https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer?s=20
-
Comedian Sarah Cooper - https://thecooperreview.com/ and https://twitter.com/sarahcpr?s=20
-
Fictional Reporter Jonathan Pie - https://www.jonathanpie.com/
-
Comedian James Acaster - https://www.jamesacaster.com/
-
Bob Mortimer's Train Guy - https://mashable.com/article/bob-mortimer-train-guy
-
Psychologist Jordan Peterson - https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/
-
Comedian Jimmy Carr - https://www.jimmycarr.com/
-
Dave Chapelle's speech at the Mark Twain Prize - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwyeYmXjD1A
-
Josh's Interview with UK newspaper The Daily Telegraph -https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/25/right-wingers-have-much-sense-humour-left/
-
Former Leaders of the UK Labour Party
Jeremy Corbyn -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn
Ed Milliband - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband -
Political commentator Owen Jones - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Jones
-
NASCAR driver Josh Berry - https://www.joshberryracing.com/
-
My Amazon review for Staggering Hubris, Josh/Rafe's book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R3T9LVQK15CB2Q/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1785633074
What can comedy teach us about human decision-making?
That’s something that my guest on this episode Josh Berry, knows all about. He’s a comedian, impressionist and satirist — though as you’ll hear on the episode, he’s not hugely keen on that third label. If there’s anyone that can help us to understand human risk, it’s someone who is really good at observing human behaviour and making us laugh about it.
I first discovered Josh last year, thanks to videos he released on social media which went viral. In them he plays, Rafe Hubris, a 25-year-old SPAD - short for SPecial ADviser — to the current UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson. The construct Josh uses for his Rafe videos is really simple. Something newsworthy — usually ridiculous — has happened in reality and Rafe is on the phone providing strategic and communications advice to whichever government minister has got themselves into trouble.
The comedy comes both from the storyline and Rafe as a character — the surname Hubris is very apt to describe the incredibly self-confident, posh, entitled Oxford graduate. We know he studied at Oxford because he never ceases to tell us. If you’ve never come across a Rafe, congratulations! — just imagine what a younger Boris Johnson must have been like.
Since releasing the videos, Josh has written & published Rafe’s 2020 diaries, and is in the middle of a UK tour. Our discussion went on so long, that there's a second episode coming very soon.
To find out more about the topics we discussed:
Josh’s website including details of Rafe’s diary and his tour: www.joshberryofficial.com
Josh on Social Media:
Twitter — https://twitter.com/JoshBerryComedy
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/JoshBerryImpressions
Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/joshberrycomedy/
YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtucDoyC9QQyibS8BY3Vew
Mrs Doubtfire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Doubtfire
Simon Lipson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Lipson
Russell Brand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Brand
Josh’s interview with Andy Murray - https://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2017070340302/andy-murray-impressionist-funny-clip/
A clip from Rob & Romesh with Andy Murray - https://twitter.com/robandromeshvs/status/1413148366960164865?lang=en
The Michael Gove tweet that led to the creation of Rafe Hubris — https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1199304826468876288?
Alan Partridge - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Partridge
Jimmy Carr - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carr
Rafe’s Peppa Pig reference - https://twitter.com/JoshBerryComedy/status/1463203112076910596?s=20
Frankie Boyle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Boyle
Chris Morris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Morris_(satirist)
How can we prevent people from falling over and injuring themselves? What sounds like a simple challenge, is actually a major issue. In a normal year, over 300,000 people in the UK alone have to go going to hospital after slipping on a surface. That equates to 1.5 million bed days and around a billion pounds, so 1.3 billion dollars of insurance claims.
My guest on this episode, Christian Harris, is the founder of Slip Safety, a company that specialises in helping prevent these kinds of accidents.
If that sounds like an unusual business model, you’re right. But as you’ll hear there’s a lot more complexity in what makes us fall over than you might think. If you want to solve the problem, then you need a specialist to help you do that.
The more I spoke to Christian about his business, the more I realised that what he does is highly relevant to human risk. Because it’s not just a case of telling people to take more care, though sometimes it clearly is the fault of the individual who fell. But equally, sometimes the environment has been poorly designed, making the chances of people falling over unnecessarily high. This is a case of human risk manifesting itself in the physical world.
In our discussion, Christian explains what inspired him to set up the company. We also explore the dynamics of falling and how technology can help prevent it. We look at how the idea of falling over being funny — think of cartoon characters throwing banana skins down to make their nemesis fall over or comedy YouTube videos of people falling over in the snow — poses challenges when you’re trying to manage what is a very dangerous risk. And we talk about the fact that logical approaches to managing this — signs that say things like slippery when wet, might actually be counter-productive. I also get some tips from him on how we can all make ourselves less likely to fall over
Christian not only shares some wonderful insights — and you’ll be amazed at how much more complex this subject is than you might initially think — but he’s also great company. So, please enjoy my discussion with Christian Harris on Slips, Falls and Accidents.
Links to issues we discuss:
Christian’s company Slip Safety - https://slipsafety.co.uk/
Chimes model - https://slipsafety.co.uk/chimes/
Co-op incident in Truro - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-39998209
Safety & Risk Success Podcast - https://anchor.fm/safetyrisksuccess
The episode on human risk - https://anchor.fm/safetyrisksuccess/episodes/Christian-Hunt-on-The-Human-Risk--behavioural-science-in-safety-e18sa2e
Christian’s profile on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-harris-slip-safety/
How can we manage risk and keep people safe in fragile environments?
My guest Colin Pereira is Director at HP Risk Management, a consultancy that assists media organisations operating in challenging environments. Since the business of journalism is to report, news organisations need to get their reporters into locations the rest of us might prefer to avoid.
As a human risk challenge, this is multifaceted — many of the risks facing journalists in the field are human, and the decisions they make while on assignment also provide plenty of opportunity for human risk to manifest itself. Meanwhile the media organisations need to consider how they manage the risk from an organisational perspective.
Colin helps news organisations build their compliance infrastructure and crisis management for dangerous assignments. In simple terms, that involves supporting journalists and broadcasters in managing risk when they go into war zones, disaster locations or engage in dangerous investigations. For two decades, he has shaped the risk management model for journalists operating under threat. In 2020, Colin launched RiskPal, a software as a service platform focusing on streamlining risk assessment. In addition to working with numerous news organisations, he also serves as the Committee to Protect Journalists’ Safety Strategist. Previously he was head of security for ITN and Deputy Head of BBC High-Risk Team. Colin has advised teams of journalists covering wars, natural disasters, terrorism and riots globally, and has worked on high-risk investigations. He was also an award-winning journalist for BBC Newsnight and BBC Current Affairs.
In our discussion, Colin explains how he went from studying Islamic fundamentalism to working for The BBC. Firstly as part of the security team, and then as a journalist where he worked in some very dangerous locations. That means he’s got some fascinating anecdotes about the kinds of risks that journalists face and what the organisations that employ them can do to mitigate the risks they’ll be facing.
During our discussion, we talk about:
Colin's career: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-pereira-187b2828/
HP Risk Management: https://www.hpriskmanagement.co.uk/
RiskPal: https://www.riskpal.com/
The BBC report Colin was working on in Afghanistan: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m36bj
How social media impacted the 2011 Arab Spring protests in Egypt: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12400319
How can diversity help make Compliance functions more effective? My guest, Mary Shirley is a compliance professional who has been working to promote women in compliance. She’s the co-host of The Great Women in Compliance podcast and the co-author of a book called Sending the Elevator Back Down: What We’ve Learned from Great Women in Compliance.
One of the ways we can mitigate human risk is to have a more diverse range of opinions involved in decision-making. And that’s arguably even more important when it comes to the people in functions responsible for managing human risk. Because if you’re going to effectively influence employees to do the right things and not do the wrong ones, you’re going to need a broad range of insights into what those employees might get up to.
Mary and I both presented at the recent European Ethics & Compliance Conference. You can see those presentations here:
Mary’s presentation on what it takes to be a great woman in Compliance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4AXJUPQyjk & mine on what Compliance has to do with Ethics - https://youtu.be/AYDzfQGesKE
If, like me, you thought Compliance was a male-dominated discipline, but as Mary explains, the ratio of men to women is above average, but for reasons you might not expect. And, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t work to be done.
During our discussion we explore:
Mary's LinkedIn profile - https://www.linkedin.com/in/iheartcompliance/
The Great Women In Compliance podcast — https://www.corporatecomplianceinsights.com/great-women-in-compliance/
It’s available on all the major podcast platforms
Sending The Elevator Back Down book - https://amzn.to/3qUWElU
Organisational Psychologist Adam Grant - https://www.adamgrant.net/
The Great Women In Compliance LinkedIn Group - https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12156164/
The Activision Blizzard Story - https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/activision-blizzard-lawsuit-controversy-timeline-explained/
Gucci’s Shadow Committees - https://www.wmagazine.com/story/gucci-millennials-shadow-committee-alessandro-michele
The episode of this show featuring a sexologist - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sexologist-dr-jill-mcdevitt-on/
A brief note on audio quality — I recorded my part of the show while travelling and the audio quality at my end isn’t as high as it usually is. My apologies. Fortunately, Mary’s audio, like her content, is of a very high standard.
How can we make transport more human? On this episode, I'm exploring the human risk dynamics of transport — both from the perspective of the traveller, but also from the perspective of those who run and design transport networks and policy.
Every single one of us has reasons why we want to get from A to B and usually, we have to make choices about how we do that - whether we walk, cycle, drive a car, ride a motorbike, catch public transport or get on a plane. There’s human risk in the decisions we make around how we travel - for us and for others. Equally, those who design transport policy, manage networks and run travel operators also run human risk in what they do.
My guest on this episode is Pete Dyson. He’s a behavioural scientist who advises the UK’s Department of Transport on how to apply behavioural science in policy. And he’s the co-author of a fascinating new book Transport for Humans: are we nearly there yet?
The other co-author is Rory Sutherland, who has appeared on the show before. You'll find links to those episodes at the end of these show notes
In my discussion with Pete, we look at what travel means and how our views on it are shaped by influences that might not immediately be obvious. He’s got a host of anecdotes that I guarantee will make you think differently about travel and transport. And one of the things I find fascinating is that the ideas he shares aren’t just applicable to transport contexts. We can use the same thinking for areas like compliance and ethics.
To find out more about the book visit https://londonpublishingpartnership.co.uk/transport-for-humans/
Listener warning — there were some issues with the audio while recording, so the sound quality isn’t as high as it normally is. But I promise you that lower-quality audio is compensated for by really high-quality content.
Links to the previous episodes featuring Pete's co-author Rory Sutherland:
Rory on Compliance — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Rory Sutherland & Gerald Ashley on Networks — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory Sutherland & Gerald Ashley on Prosilience — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/
How can counter-intuitive thinking help us to make better business decisions? It’s something that Professor Ian McCarthy explores in his research.
Ian has been on the show before, talking about his research Into workplace bullshit. You can hear that episode here 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-ian-mccarthy-on-workplace/
On this episode, we begin by catching up with Ian’s work on bullshit and find out why several large companies are getting his help to run bullshit audits.
We then explore the first of several counter-intuitive ideas.
If you’re a company and you own some intellectual property — your logo or brand imagery, for example — then conventional wisdom says that you should pursue anyone who tries to infringe your rights. But there are many situations where that might not actually be the best thing to do. Ian talks us through the idea of open branding.
You can read the research on that here:https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0007681320300938?via%3Dihub
After that, we explore social media, and I get Ian’s thoughts on how companies and individuals might respond to it. Amongst other insights, Ian highlights how far from thinking of social media as a risk to be mitigated, there are counter-intuitive strategies available to companies who embrace it. Why might you, for example, want to use it to leak information that historically might have been considered trade secrets? You can learn more about that here: https://www.slideshare.net/IanMcCarthy/were-leaking-and-everythings-fine-how-and-why-companies-deliberately-leak-secrets-57447908?
Then we look at Ian’s field, and he explains why he’s a huge proponent of open academia. It’s another concept that involves overturning conventional wisdom.
To see more of Ian’s research, visit; https://sfu.academia.edu/IanMcCarthy
You can find him on social media:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Toffeemen68
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmccarthy1/
In our discussion, we refer to Led By Donkeys - https://www.ledbydonkeys.org/
What impact do crowds have on football ⚽️games? Is there such a thing as 'home advantage'? It's a question that is of interest to those of us who watch the sport, but also to non-sports fans because it helps us to understand the psychology of how we are impacted by our environment and other people.
My guest, Dane McCarrick is a postgraduate researcher at The University of Leeds whose interests include the psychosocial factors underpinning sporting excellence in association football, with a particular focus on how psychological stress influences performance.
Thanks to COVID-19, a large number of professional football games were played behind closed doors. As a result, it was possible to undertake a study of what impact the absence of fans had on the results. The answer is significant — not having them there, reduced home advantage, illustrating that there is an impact on both players and referees.
In our discussion, we talk about the home advantage study and then move on to talk about Dane’s broader work looking at the psychology of sport. We explore how pressure and stress impact sporting performance and there are some lessons in there for all of us about how we manage those dynamics in our own lives, whether or not we play sport.
From a human risk perspective, the study helps us to think about what might influence our behaviours. And, if we consider the referee as fulfilling a compliance role, there are parallels for how we manage Compliance in organisations.
To learn more about Dane and his research visit: https://medicinehealth.leeds.ac.uk/psychology/pgr/4310/dane-mccarrick
To read the Home Advantage research: The research piece on home advantage is here: https://psyarxiv.com/2gkht/
You can also read an article written by Dane for The Psychologist magazine here:https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/home-premier-advantage
Other sports-related episodes of the podcast include:
-Ben Cohen on the Hot Hand fallacy:
https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/ben-cohen-on-the-hot/
-
Rafael Honigstein on the psychology of football:
https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/raphael-honigstein-on-the-psychology-of-football/ -
Derek Rae on what football can teach us about decision-making:https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/derek-rae-on-what-football/
How can we assess the level of human risk we’re running in a control framework? Unlike technology, humans aren’t always reliable and how they behave under pressure may well be different to how they behave in normal situations.
My guest on this episode, Michael Walford-Willaims is a risk professional who specialises in how to plan for when things go wrong, covering areas like business continuity, operational resilience and crisis management.
Michael helps companies by testing out the human components of control frameworks to see where there might be weaknesses. He goes into organisations and tries to ethically hack them by trying to circumvent controls with human elements — that might be trying to get a fraudulent invoice paid or simply tailgating employees to see if he can get physical access to buildings.
His work serves two purposes:
Firstly it identifies potential weaknesses in controls. If he can get a fake invoice paid, then so can a fraudster. If he can get access to buildings, then so can thieves. By seeing how easy it is to bypass controls, organisations can get a better handle on their risk profile. Until you’ve actually tested the human controls, it’s impossible to know how weak or strong they actually are.
Secondly, it serves as a training exercise. Just like a fire evacuation drill, it’s better to have employees learn what to do or not do, by experiencing a simulation, than letting them learn from real-life situations.
This is human risk management in action. Of course there are ethical components to the work that Michael does — how far is it appropriate to test out your employees and what do you if you discover they are the weakest link in your security chain?
As Michael explains, we have to also think about what impact the exercise will have on those involved in it. If you think you’ve been tricked by your employer, that you’re somehow not trusted, or that your employer is prepared to deceive you and therefore the organisation is unethical, the exercise could actually make things worse. So the expertise Michael brings isn’t just about testing the proverbial fences. It’s planning exercises that don’t cross ethical lines and then using the information gleaned from them, sensitively and intelligently.
About Michael
Michael has worked for over 15 years in various aspects of risk management and compliance with a specialism in Business Continuity and Crisis Management and more recently third party risk management. He has worked in a number of countries globally having been based in London, Singapore and New York. Working in house and for the last 7 years as a consultant, Michael has worked across many industries for some of the largest organisations in the world including some of the worlds largest banks. and through his work in the field of crisis management has worked on a number of major incidents including the Japanese Tsunami and Fukushima incident, terror attacks in Mumbai, Boston and Moscow and numerous natural disasters, and technology & infrastructure failure related incidents. In 2014 Michael worked to set up one of the UK's first CrowdFunding platforms and as head of Operations and Compliance oversaw the first successful direct FCA authorisation of a platform for both Debt and Equity-based crowdfunding. Michael continues to work as a consultant as has just set up a new brand "Westbourne" to pull together a number of offerings in the risk management space.
You can contact him via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-walford-williams-2302a78a/
Why do we sometimes find ourselves feeling unable to influence other people? If you've ever found yourself thinking you're ineffective, invisible or inarticulate, then you're not alone. We've all experienced it. But what if it turned out that those feelings were actually wrong? On this episode, I'm speaking to the author of a new book that explores precisely this.
Vanessa Bohns is a social psychologist and professor of organizational behavior at Cornell University. She’s the author of a new book called You Have More Influence Than You Think: How We Underestimate Our Power of Persuasion, and Why It Matters.
The idea behind the book, which is obvious from the title, is that we often have far more ability to influence others than we might think.
This failure to recognise a hidden superpower has two human risk implications:
The first is that we miss opportunities. If we don’t think we have any influence, we don’t see to make use of it.
The second relates to how we interact with other people and is the fact that we don’t recognise how we are influencing other people and therefore accidentally misuse our hidden power.
Both can lead to undesirable outcomes.
In our discussion, we explore how Vanessa came to be interested in this topic and dive into some of the dynamics that drive our inability to understand our own influence.
To find out more about the book: https://www.vanessabohns.com/
To learn more about Vanessa and her research: https://www.ilr.cornell.edu/people/vanessa-bohns
You can find her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/profbohns?s=20
Listeners unfamiliar with singer Barry Manilow — whose t-shirts form part of an experiment we refer to on the show — can find out more here: https://barrymanilow.com/
What can Compliance learn from Sales? On the face of it, they're very different things: sales is about persuading customers to buy a service or product, whereas Compliance is about telling employees what to do or not do. Yet, perhaps surprisingly, there are lots of lessons for Compliance from the sales process.
If we want to mitigate human risk, then we’ll be more effective if we can borrow ideas from other disciplines that also involve influencing human decision-making.
My guest on this episode, Taylor Edwards, works in sales for The Broadcat, a Compliance design company. When he joined the company earlier this year, Taylor needed to learn about Compliance because that's who the company's customers are. And in doing so, he discovered that while Sales and Compliance might seem like different disciplines, there is much that they have in common.
You can find out more about Taylor on LinkedIn where he regularly shares insights:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tayloredwards90/
For more on Broadcat, visit www.thebroadcat.com
You’ll find them on social media:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/broadcat/
https://twitter.com/TheBroadcat
Do listen to the previous episodes of the show featuring Ricardo Pellafone, the founder of Broadcat here:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-why-compliance/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-the-challenges/
How can building a community help business? That's what my guest Jean-Marc Le Tissier helps me to understand on this episode.
We're all familiar with the idea of a community, in terms of where we live, but how might it be relevant for businesses and other organisations. The answer is that what works for us in our domestic lives, can also have benefits in a work context. If we want to achieve our goals, then we need to work collaboratively together.
Businesses can thrive if they build communities — whether that's of customers or employees — and Jean-Marc talks me through how that can happen. In our discussion, we explore how trust can be built and how having a common purpose can drive better outcomes.
To find out more about Jean-Marc see: https://www.halton-bridge.com/jean-marc-le-tissier/
On the episode, I also mention the re-recorded interview I did with Tom Hardin. You can find that here:https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tom-hardin-on-his-experience/
I also mention my discussion with Lisa Richardson on the psychology of Peloton, a company that has successfully built a community: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/lisa-richardson-on-the-psychology/
How can we communicate more effectively in a virtual environment?
My guest Mark Bowden is a body language expert who is well known for advising senior business leaders, celebrities and politicians on how to present themselves. He’s also the author of a number of best-selling books on communication and body language.
During our discussion, we explore how Mark became a body language expert and he shares some fascinating insights into how to be more effective in a virtual environment.
In our discussion, we refer to:
Jacques Cousteau - https://www.cousteau.org/
Lumiere Brothers - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/history-magazine/article/creation-of-the-motion-picture-lumiere-brothers
Etro Suits - https://www.etro.com/
Mark’s videos - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY392nFI08uc-qxUs5hDusQ
Truth & Lies - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY392nFI08uc-qxUs5hDusQ
Ken Dodd - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Dodd
To contact Mark: https://truthplane.com/
What determines how we individually react to refugees? That’s the question that my guest on this episode, Dr Nihan Albayrak-Aydemir, has explored in her PhD.
Nihan is originally from Turkey and came to the UK to study at LSE - the London School of Economics & Political Sciences.
Nihan was intrigued by the fact that the level of engagement she saw in Turkey towards Syrian refugees was very different to that which she observed in the UK. And she noted changes in her own behaviour.
Her curiosity about what drove this led her to explore the reasons why people might be more or less willing to help refugees. She discovered that there are a number of factors at play — some predictable, some surprising.
If you’re interested in learning more about the concept of bystanding, I recommend listening to an earlier episode of the show on the Bystander Effect with Professor Catherine Sanderson 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-catherine-sanderson-on-the/
To find out more about Nihan and her work visit her LSE website: https://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/People/Nihan-Albayrak-Aydemir
You’ll find Nihan’s research here: https://bpspsychub.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjop.12474
During our discussion, I refer to a Save The Children fundraising video which you can watch here: https://youtu.be/RBQ-IoHfimQ
For more on the Bystander Intervention Model visit https://www.simplypsychology.org/bystander-effect.html
What is Creative Accountancy? That's what I'm exploring on this episode. It's a term I've invented — a deliberate play on the term 'Creative Accounting' — to describe the approach which my guest Alastair Thomson adapts to his role as an accountant. He's actually much more than an accountant, but that's his background.
Nowadays, Alastair advises companies in a growth phase, which requires him to adopt an approach that might not fit what you'd expect from an accountant.
I'm fascinated by this because I think one of the root causes of human risk is people sticking rigidly to the remit of their role without thinking beyond that. To be clear, there are some roles where that is precisely what we want and need people to do — we don't want brain surgeons, air traffic controllers or those engaged in food safety to do other things than the task at hand. But very often, we do. So I think Alastairs' approach is of interest, not just to accountants, but other disciplines like Compliance, HR and Audit, to name just three. If we want to succeed in the 21st century, we will need more people to be creative and dynamic.
To find out more about Alastair and his books: https://thebetterbusinesscompany.com/
How can we use crowdsourcing to obtain human risk insights?
We’re all familiar with companies that have faced big issues in terms of misconduct. When there’s a big scandal — whether that’s banks engaging in bad behaviour or the diesel emissions cheating scandal in the motor industry - it’s very easy to look back with hindsight and point to things that could have been spotted at the time.
But wouldn’t it be better for regulators, shareholders, customers and the companies themselves, if we could identify warning signs early on?
That’s the challenge that my guest on this episode Dr Ruidi Shang, set to address. She’s an Associate Professor at Tilburg University in the Netherlands and a visiting scholar at Harvard Business School. Ruidi is the co-author of some new research entitled Tone At The Bottom: Measuring corporate misconduct from the text of employee reviews.
What she and co-author Professor Dennis Campbell set out to identify was whether it would be possible to take information that is already available about companies, and determine from that which are more or less likely to have misconduct issues. To get hold of that information they turned to an unexpected source, Glassdoor.com — a website that allows employees and former employees to leave anonymous reviews about what it is like to work for a particular company. It’s designed to help jobseekers understand the realities of working in a particular place before they decide to apply or join a company.
On the face of if this might sound odd. What can a website designed to help job seekers, tells us about the risk of misconduct? As it happens quite a lot. Because in talking about their employee experience, people end up describing the corporate culture. Since culture is a driver of misconduct, this is potentially highly relevant. Look at enough of those reviews, and you can start to build a pattern of what goes on in the organisation, and so form a picture of potential issues.
What’s clever about this dataset is that it recognises that asking people about directly misconduct is a heavily loaded question. Respondents might choose not to answer truthfully, or they might not actually recognise the fact that a high-pressure environment — which they might actually enjoy working in — could be a driver of potential misconduct. So the best way to get a good picture is not to ask people about it at all. Rather its to crowdsource insights from lots of anecdotal accounts of what it is like to work within the organisation.
It turns out that analysing the dataset on Glassdoor does have predictive capabilities. By backtesting the analysis with companies that had public scandals and exploring what was being said, before the scandals emerged, the researchers discovered that these reviews can provide advanced warning of potential misconduct issues. As we explore on the show.
To find out more about Ruidi and her work: https://www.tilburguniversity.edu/staff/r-shang
To find out more about her co-author Professor Dennis Campbell: https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=10677
To read Tone At The Bottom: Measuring corporate misconduct from the text of employee reviews: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3850554
What causes human risk in companies, particularly at senior levels? That's what my guest on this episode, Professor Elizabeth Sheedy, has been exploring in her research. And she's just published a new book called Risk Governance: Biases, Blindspots & Bonuses. Elizabeth has been on the show two times before (links below) talking about Bad Behaviour in Banking and Accountability regimes. This time, she's back to help us understand how the three 'b's in the title of her book, are key drivers of human risk in organisations.
We also discuss a book she has co-authored called Auditing Risk Culture - A Practical Guide.
As ever, Elizabeth, who is a risk governance expert based in the Department of Applied Finance of Macquarie Business School in Sydney, provides fascinating insights and some wonderful stories to support her analysis.
To find out more about Elizabeth's area of research 👉https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/elizabeth-sheedy
To hear her first appearance on the show when we talked about Bad Behaviour in Banking 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-elizabeth-sheedy-on-behaviour-in-banking/
Youll find her second appearance on Accountability 🎧 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-elizabeth-sheedy-on-how-accountability-can-reduce-human-risk/
To read more about Elizabeth's book on Biases, Blind Spots & Bonuses 👉https://www.routledge.com/Risk-Governance-Biases-Blind-Spots-and-Bonuses/Sheedy/p/book/9780367642655
To download Auditing Risk Culture - a practical guide 👉 https://www.iia.org.au/technical-resources/publications/auditing-risk-culture---a-practical-guide
During our discussion, Elizabeth refers to:
The Good Judgement Project 👉https://www.gjopen.com/
Research on Bonus Deferrals 👉 https://privpapers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3814623
How do human factors influence an inherently risky activity like scuba diving?
That’s what my guest on this episode, Gareth Lock explores in his work as the founder of The Human Diver — a company that specialises in teaching the diving community about human factors.
Whether you’ve ever been diving or not, it's fairly obvious that it’s an activity, that comes with a degree of inherent risk. After all, It involves getting into an environment that requires us to use specialist equipment because being underwater impacts our ability to breathe naturally and diminishes the use of some of our senses. It also exposes us to some potentially dangerous conditions - temperature, currents and air pressure for starters. Not to mention the sea creatures we might come across, who aren’t necessarily always going to welcome our intrusion into their world.
As Gareth explains in our discussion, those dynamics can be made far worse by humans. Most accidents and incidents in diving arent down to technical failures, rather they are down to complacency, breakdowns in communication, poor decision-making, a lack of situational awareness or ineffective teamwork and/or leadership.
To find out more about:
Gareth - https://www.thehumandiver.com/theteam
The Human Diver - https://www.thehumandiver.com/
Under Pressure, Gareth’s book - https://www.thehumandiver.com/underpressure The Human Factors in Diving Conference - https://www.hf-in-diving-conference.com/
In our discussion, we also refer to Tim Harford. You can hear the episode of this podcast featuring Tim here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/tim-harford-on-using-data-to-make-smarter-decisions/
Listeners interested in hearing more about Human Factors will enjoy this episode of the show featuring Neil Clark: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/neil-clark-on-human-factors/
Why might judges in the same Court give vastly different sentences for the same crime? The answer is noise. When experts who assess the same situation come to very different conclusions for no good reason, we risk bad outcomes.
On this episode, I’m speaking with Professor Olivier Sibony, who is the co-author — along with Professors Daniel Kahneman and Cass Sunstein — of Noise: a flaw in human judgement.
In our discussion, he explains what noise is, why it matters and what we can do to mitigate it.
He also shares how this stellar line-up of authors came together.
Olivier also helps me understand why a commonly adopted approach of using forced distribution for employee performance evaluations, which I have always found to be a bad idea, is…a really bad idea!
Olivier has been on the show before. You’ll find that episode here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/professor-olivier-sibony-on-mistakes/
To find out more about Olivier, his research and his previous book ‘You’re About To Make A Terrible Mistake’ visit his website: https://oliviersibony.com/about/
For more on Noise, the book see: https://oliviersibony.com/books/noise/
To read a 2016 article on Noise by Daniel Kahneman: https://hbr.org/2016/10/noise
How can we manage risk in an increasingly complex world?
My guest on this episode, Richard Fenning, has spent three decades advising multinational companies on geopolitics and security crises. He’s been involved in helping to manage situations involving kidnappings, terrorist attacks, coups d’etat, corruption scandals, cyber-attacks, earthquakes and hurricanes in places ranging from Iraq and Russia to Colombia and Nigeria.
Richard is the former CEO of Control Risks (https://www.controlrisks.com/) a global consultancy that specialises in “helping businesses out of tight spots in difficult countries”. And of course when companies get into tight spots - and indeed when countries are ‘difficult’ - that’s usually because there are humans creating the tight spots or making the countries difficult. A perfect example of human risk in action.
Richard has just written a book called “What On Earth Can Go Wrong - tales from the risk business” in which he shares stories from his time in the field. You can find out more about that here: https://www.eye-books.com/books/what-on-earth-can-go-wrong
In our discussion, we explore how Richard came to work in this field - after all, it’s not something most of us would grow up thinking of as a career and what his experience has taught him about managing risk. Professionally and personally.
To learn more about Richard’s work visit: https://www.msp.co.uk/people/richard-fenning
How can we make better connections when we're on virtual calls and webinars? My guest on this episode, Dr Nick Morgan is a speaking coach and writer who helps people to find their voice in a physical and virtual world. For personal reasons, that he explains on the episode, Nick is on a mission to help people have better interactions with others. To find out more about his business visit https://publicwords.com/
Nick's book "Can You Hear Me? How to connect with people in a virtual world" was described by Harvard Business Review (who area the publisher!) as “your essential communications manual for twenty first century work”. I have to agree. You can find out more about it here: https://publicwords.com/can-you-hear-me/
Having been forced to pivot my Human Risk business (www.human-risk.com) from being mostly 'face to face' with some virtual work, into an entirely virtual business, I was looking for ways that I could learn to get better at my online interactions. Nick's book — which was published in 2018 — provided many answers and helped me to adapt. In our discussion, we explore Nick's story and what he's discovered in looking at how we interact.
In case you’re wondering what the human risk angle is here, let me explain. Since we’re required - and even when we’re not required, will probably want - to do more virtual communication than ever before, it’s important we become good at the skills we need in order to do so. As you’ll hear from Nick, those aren’t the same skills we need to communicate in person. If we don’t master these skills, then we risk being misunderstood and we risk misunderstanding others. As we know, misunderstandings can lead to conflict, confusion and even chaos.
So, if we want to avoid being part of human risk in action - or indeed if we’re tasked with managing it and want to help others avoid it - understanding how we can better communicate in a virtual world is a must-have, not a nice to have.
It's a subject I've covered before on the show and if you're interested in this area, I recommend the following episodes:
Hannah Thomas Uose on Zoom Trauma —https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hanna-thomas-uose-on-zoom-trauma/
Professor Elizabeth Stokoe on Conversations — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-elizabeth-stokoe-on-the-science-of-conversations/
Jon Levy on Influence — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/jon-levy-on-influence/
If we want to mitigate human risk, we need to engage the humans that might crystallise it. But how can we do that effectively?
My guests, Lasse Frost and Jacob Danelund have been working on this challenge for some time. Their focus is on engaging target audiences, using techniques that range from gamification — turning something into a game — to story-telling, the natural way we all learn as children.
Lasse and Jacob both work for Implement Consulting, a firm based in Denmark, that as you’ll hear, brings a very Danish way of looking at this challenge. I came across Implement when they were launching Complayance - a combination of the ‘Compliance and ‘play’ - a digital platform that delivers Compliance training through a compelling gaming interface.
Lasse and Jakob aren’t just designers, they’re also podcasters hosting a show called The Human Firewall.
In the episode, we explore why traditional approaches to the challenge of engaging people, sometimes don’t work and what more effective ones might be.
Topics we discuss, include:
Shadow IT 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_IT
The story of Cassandra from Greek mythology 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra
The Human Firewall podcast 👉 https://podcasts.apple.com/dk/podcast/the-human-firewall/id1553442754
Researcher Luca Dellanna 👉 https://www.luca-dellanna.com/
Luca has appeared twice on the Human Risk podcast. You can hear him talking about Ergodicity on this episode 👉https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/luca-dellanna-on-ergodicity/
and
COVID & Multiplicative Dynamics on this episode 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/luca-dellanna-on-the-coronavirus-and-multiplicative-dynamics/
ComPlayance, the gamified compliance training platform that Implement Consulting, Jakob and Lasse's company Implement consulting has developed 👉https://implementconsultinggroup.com/complayance/
For more on Implement, visit 👉https://implementconsultinggroup.com
The origins of the phrase 'hocus pocus' 👉https://wordfoolery.wordpress.com/2019/02/25/the-strange-story-behind-hocus-pocus/
GDPR - General Data Protection Regulation - 👉 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation
WARNING - the following links may offend some readers/listeners, so view at your own peril and on a personal, not work device.
The Human Centipede horror movie 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Human_Centipede_(First_Sequence)
John Dillermand, a children's TV show with an adult them 👉https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/06/john-dillermand-denmark-launches-childrens-tv-show-man-giant-penis
What does the word 'compliance' mean? On the face of it, we've all had experience of it under COVID as governments have introduced rules to influence our behaviour to stop the spread of the virus. But its influence is far broader than that, with applications ranging from corporate environments to the medical profession. It's even become an industry in its own right, complete with its own professional organizations and creating an ever-growing stream of jobs. As a result, the term has various meanings and academic studies looking at how it influences human decision-making have often been undertaken in siloes. If we want to understand what compliance means and how its objectives can be more effectively delivered, we need to look across the spectrum of applications.
My guests on this episode, Professors Benjamin van Rooij and Danny Sokol, are the co-authors of a new book called The Cambridge Handbook of Compliance which seeks to meet this challenge. The Handbook takes a broad approach and explores the idea of compliance as being the interaction between rules and behaviour. Using this framing, it sets out to deliver a comprehensive understanding of what compliance is and what mechanisms and interventions are used in its service.
By exploring different contexts and ideas, the Handbook explains what compliance is and provides a guide to how its objectives can be more effectively delivered. In our discussion, which was originally filmed as a video that we’ll be sharing as clips on social media, Benjamin and Danny explain why they wrote the book and what they hope to achieve and highlight some of the key themes it covers. By understanding what compliance is, and how its objectives can be more effectively met, we can adopt what Danny and Benjamin call Compliance 2.0.
They also reveal their favourite or least favourite rule!
Not only are Danny and Benjamin engaging guests, but their insights will be of interest to those working in compliance and those of us who are subject to compliance requirements. In other words, all of us!
For more on The Cambridge Handbook of Compliance 👉https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-handbook-of-compliance/A7A803D987C9C001C6569395BEE5051C
To download the Introductory Chapter of the Handbook for free 👉https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3563295
To find out more about Benjamin and his research:
👉 https://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/affiliated/van-rooij/
👉 https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html
To find out more about Danny and his research:
👉https://www.law.ufl.edu/faculty/d-daniel-sokol
👉https://www.whitecase.com/people/daniel-sokol
To hear Benjamin's previous appearances on the podcast:
On his book 'The Behavioural Code' 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-the-behavioural-code/
On his research into COVID Compliance 👉https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-covid-compliance/
Why is Peloton - a company that sells bikes that allow you to take on-demand and live classes at home - so successful? With a Net Promoter Score of 94 (that's 94% of customers who would recommend it to someone else), there must be a psychological explanation. That's what my guest Lisa Richardson has researched as part of her psychology masters.
I'm interested in this because I've recently joined Peloton and absolutely love the product. I didn't think I would since I'd previously viewed it as a bit of a cult. The kind of people who had bought it, seemed to be incredibly fanatical and I didn't think that would be me. Yet it is. And this intrigued me. So I wanted to know more. Not just to answer my own curiosity about what had driven me to be so committed to an activity, I would never have contemplated doing in a gym, let alone at home. But also, because I think there are clues there about how we might persuade people to do things they're not naturally drawn to do - like comply with Compliance requirements at work.
So whether you're an existing Peloton fan, you really don't understand what the fuss is about, have never heard of it, or as a cycling fundamentalist, think it's a terrible watering down of what cycling should be, this show has something for you. Lisa joins me to tell me what she discovered in her research. And what she shares has real implications for managing human risk.
To read an article Lisa wrote about her research: https://thriveglobal.com/stories/applying-the-magic-of-peloton/
You can read Lisa's research "Peloton as a Facilitator of Hope: Pathways to Initiate and Sustain Behaviors that Enhance Well-being" here: https://repository.upenn.edu/mapp_capstone/182/
To find out more about Peloton, visit their website: https://www.onepeloton.com/
How can we create better connections with other people to help us meet our objectives?
On this episode, I’m speaking to a Behavioural Scientist that was introduced to me by my good friends Tim Houlihan and Kurt Nelson, hosts of the Behavioral Grooves podcast.
If you’re not familiar with their show, do check it out - https://behavioralgrooves.com/
The reason I mention that is because it's highly relevant to the topic I’m going to be covering on this episode. That topic is influence and the ways in which human connection, trust and community can help us meet our personal objectives.
My guest Jon Levy is a Behavioural Scientist who has just written a book called 'You’re Invited: The Art & Science of Cultivating Influence'. In it, he explores the factors that allow us to build connections with others and how we can make those work in our favour. By following simple steps – and by adopting behaviours that might at first seem counter-intuitive - we can develop much more effective relationships with others.
Jon knows what he’s talking about. More than a decade ago, he founded The Influencers Dinner, a secret dining experience for industry leaders ranging from Nobel laureates, Olympians, celebrities, and executives, to artists and musicians. It’s got a particular quirk that Jon explains in our discussion.
As you’ll hear from the opening, Jon is a lot of fun and the conversation took us to some amazingly unexpected places. If you’re at all curious about what builds a connection with people, then you’re going to learn a lot. If you’re not, then you’re going to learn why you absolutely should be.
To find our more about Jon and 'You're Invited' and see his excellent TED Talk visit https://www.jonlevytlb.com/
And remember, when it comes to this podcast and reading Jon's book: You're Invited.
What does MTV have to do with fighting HIV?
My guest on this episode Professor Eliana La Ferrara of Bocconi University in Milan knows the answer and she joins me to tell me more about her work as a development economist. Her specialism is in applied work, meaning that she collects and analyses data, mostly from families or individuals in poor or disadvantaged locations. And she tries to understand from this data, which policies might be effective in fighting poverty.
In our discussion, we explore how Eliana became interested in researching the use of TV “edutainment” to change attitudes and behaviours in developing countries. That led her to work with colleagues from the World Bank and MIT, on a study of how MTV Shuga, a television series shown in Nigeria, might change knowledge and attitudes towards HIV and risky sexual behaviour. The good news is that it is extremely effective. Why, how and the lessons we can learn from that, is what Eliana explains to me on the show.
You can find the World Bank sponsored research paper Eliana refers to here: https://bit.ly/3wKjA7u
For more on Eliana and her area of research: https://faculty.unibocconi.eu/elianalaferrara/
On this episode, I'm tackling two seemingly unrelated topics: how regulators use Behavioural Science & Depolarization. What combines the two is my guest Alex Chesterfield. She's a Behavioural Scientist that has worked inside a regulator, looking at the effectiveness of regulation on consumer behaviour and is the co-founder of something called The Depolarization Project.
In the first half of our discussion, Alex talks to me about her time at the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), one of the UK's financial services regulators. While she was there, she deployed Behavioural Science in the service of regulation, asking the simple question as to whether rules that were designed to deliver a particular outcome — most obviously, in protecting consumers — was actually having the desired impact. We discuss the challenges faced in doing this and what lessons Alex learned from her time there.
In the second part of the discussion, we explore The Depolarization Project, which explores the idea of disagreement and promotes thought about the things that divide us. Alex explains how the project came about and talks about the book and podcast that has come from their work.
To find out more about Behavioural Science at the FCA, visit https://www.fca.org.uk/insight/future-behavioural-science-ambition-dose-humility
To learn more about The Depolarization Project and the associated podcast Changed My Mind, visit: https://www.depolarizationproject.com/
Why, when solving problems, do we tend towards addition, rather than subtraction? Not in a mathematical sense, but rather in terms of how we think about things? That's what my guest on this episode Dr Leidy Klotz, has been exploring in some research and it forms the subject of his new book Subtract: The Untapped Science of Less.
Having had an interest in the subject, Leidy observed how his son Ezra approached a problem they faced while building a Lego model together. You can hear about that in the episode. It prompted Leidy to explore why our natural tendencies drive us to pile on “to-dos” but not to consider “stop-doings.” We create incentives for good behaviour but don’t get rid of obstacles to it. We collect new and improved ideas but don’t prune the outdated ones. Every day, across challenges big and small, we neglect a basic way to make things better: we don’t subtract.
It's highly relevant to human risk because if we're only looking at additive solutions, we're likely to miss subtractive ones, making our decision-making poorer as a result. And if you're in a profession like Compliance, you'll know all about how much easier it is to add rules, controls and policies, than it is to remove them. THe same applies to Regulators, Lawyers and a host of other jobs. So whether you're listening to discover better ways of improving your personal life, or for work, you'll enjoy this conversation.
Leidy is the Copenhaver Associate Professor at the University of Virginia. His research is filling in underexplored overlaps between engineering and behavioral science, in pursuit of more sustainable built environment systems. He is also a former professional football (soccer) player, something I discussed with him on the show.
To find out more about Leidy & Subtract: https://www.leidyklotz.com/
To learn more about Leidy's research on Subtraction, I recommend:
https://behavioralscientist.org/subtract-why-getting-to-less-can-mean-thinking-more/
https://socialsciences.nature.com/posts/people-systematically-overlook-subtractive-changes
To see the YouTube video he refers to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y32OpI2_LM
Why do we have arguments & why might they actually be a good thing?
That's what my guest, Ian Leslie, explores in his new book Conflicted: Why Arguments Are Tearing Us Apart and How They Can Bring Us Together.
In it, he explains how conflict is the secret of happy relationships, the way companies can build collaborative cultures and what lies behind some of the greatest scientific and creative breakthroughs.
Ian’s first career was in advertising, as a creative strategist for some of the world’s biggest brands, at ad agencies in London and New York. Nowadays he’s a writer and author of acclaimed books on human behaviour. He’s also got a wonderful newsletter - details below.
To find out more about Ian, visit his website - http://ian-leslie.com/
For more on Conflicted see - http://ian-leslie.com/conflicted/
To subscribe to Ian's excellent newsletter The Ruffian - https://ianleslie.substack.com/
What are companies here to do? Make profit? Or is there something more? That's what my guest on this episode, John Rosling, is here to help me find out.
On previous episodes, I've explored the idea that companies don't always get the best out of their employees, and that a lot of human risk crystallises within organisations, because of the disconnect between individual priorities and the stated organisational priorities.
John is the CEO of Contexis, a company that helps large organizations become more effective and productive. Their passion is around purpose in business and how companies can measure it. John's view is that if you get organisational purpose right, then you can drive human productivity, human happiness and organisational effectiveness. By implication, therefore, also reduce human risk.
In a career spanning over 30 years, John has worked at large companies such as Unilever and Diageo, as well as smaller startups. In our discussion, we explore what Purpose is, why it matters and what we can do to ensure organizations have it.
For more on John & Contexis 👉 https://www.contexis.com/imt_team/john-rosling/
How is our perception of risk impacted by ethical dynamics? That's what I'm exploring on this episode with my guest Dr Cailin O'Connor.
She's the co-author of a recent draft research paper that highlights some interesting findings in relation to the risk perception of COVID. The paper explains that research subjects thought that people were less at risk of COVID infection when engaged in morally good actions, and more likely to catch COVID while doing morally bad things. In other words, people’s risk judgments are systematically skewed.
Cailin is a philosopher of biology and behavioral sciences, philosopher of science, and evolutionary game theorist. She’s an Associate Professor in the Department of Logic and Philosophy of Science and a member of the Institute for Mathematical Behavioral Science at UC Irvine.
On this episode, I speak to Cailin about the COVID research, before moving on to look at two other areas of her work. We explore previous work she’s done on Misinformation and some future work she’s interested in exploring around how healthcare risks are communicated. For reasons she explains, she’s got a personal interest in it.
To read the Twitter thread that drew my attention to the paper: https://twitter.com/cailinmeister/status/1390821582726066176?s=20
You'll find the research pre-print here: https://osf.io/preprints/metaarxiv/d64a8
For more on Cailin and her areas of research: http://cailinoconnor.com/
Cailin's co-authored book on Misinformation, called The Misinformation Age: http://cailinoconnor.com/the-misinformation-age/
This episode is the second half of a discussion between Paul Craven & Gerald Ashley. If you haven't listened to the first half (🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-paul-craven-on-statistics-spreadsheets-scam-artists/) then I highly recommend you do so, though the episode does work on a standalone basis.
On this episode, Paul & Gerald discuss:
Ergodicity - hear my previous guest Luca Dellanna on this 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/luca-dellanna-on-ergodicity/
Taylor Pearson on Russian Roulette - https://taylorpearson.me/ergodicity/
John Allen Paulos - https://math.temple.edu/~paulos/
Behaviour Lab - https://behaviourlab.com/
Danish Physicist Per Bak - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_Bak
Stonehenge - https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/stonehenge/
Matt Ridley - https://www.mattridley.co.uk/
Cicero, On The Good Life - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/260941/on-the-good-life-by-marcus-tullius-cicero/
Herbert Simon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_A._Simon
Tim Marshall, Prisoners of Geography - https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Prisoners-of-Geography/Tim-Marshall/9781501121470
To find out more about my two guests
Gerald: http://www.geraldashley.com/
Paul: https://www.paulcraven.com/
Previous episodes of this show featuring Gerald and Paul:
Gerald - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
Gerald & Rory Sutherland Part One - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-on-networks-part-i/
Gerald & Rory Sutherland Part Two - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland-on-prosilience/
Paul - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/paul-craven-on-magic-money-the-mind/
What do Statistics, Spreadsheets & Scam Artists have in common? They're all topics that my guests on this episode, Gerald Ashley & Paul Craven discuss as they explore how we make decisions. Both Gerald and Paul have previously appeared on the show (links below) - Gerald as an individual and a 'head to head' with Rory Sutherland and Paul as an individual guest. Since the episode with Gerald and Rory, proved to be so popular, I thought I'd invite Gerald and Paul onto the show together. This episode forms Part One of their discussion.
Gerald specialises in Business Risk and Decision Making. His work concentrates on trying to understand decision making, risk-taking and human behaviour, in the face of uncertainty.
Paul is an expert in behavioural science, decision making, investment and psychology, applying the inner operations of the mind to the economic world
Some of the topics, Gerald and Paul discuss include:
-
Kasparov vs Deep Blue Chess match: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_versus_Garry_Kasparov
-
Gerd Gigerenzer, a researcher and author on risk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_Gigerenzer
-
Herbert Simon on Satisficing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisficing
-
'Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy', a book (and movie & TV series) by John LeCarre:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_Tailor_Soldier_Spy -
Frank Abagnale's 'Catch Me If You Can' (also a movie): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch_Me_If_You_Can_(book)
-
Richard Littlejohn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Littlejohn
-
The Bavelas Experiments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Bavelas
To find out more about my two guests
Gerald: http://www.geraldashley.com/
Paul: https://www.paulcraven.com/
Previous episodes of this show featuring Gerald and Paul:
Gerald - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
Gerald & Rory Sutherland Part One - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley-on-networks-part-i/
Gerald & Rory Sutherland Part Two - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland-on-prosilience/
Paul - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/paul-craven-on-magic-money-the-mind/
Why are many of the laws & regulations that are put in place, either ineffective or counter-productive? How can we make them more effective?
That's the question that my guest on this episode, Professor Benjamin van Rooij of Amsterdam University, explores in a new book he's co-authored with Professor Adam Fine. The book isn't out until later this year, but Benjamin kindly agreed to join me to tell me more about it.
Benjamin first appeared on the show last year, looking at COVID Compliance — exploring the effectiveness of government attempts to influence our behaviour. You'll find that episode here:
👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-covid-compliance/
On this episode, we catch up on his COVID research and then discuss his new book The Behavioural Code. You can find out more about that here 👉https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/676270/the-behavioral-code-by-benjamin-van-rooij/
In our discussion, Benjamin highlights some of the ways in which the law influences us in ways we might not realise and explores how some traditional ideas about how we can get people to behave in a particular way are flawed - they either don't work or are counter-productive.
What he has to say is fascinating for people whose job involves influencing others — so Compliance, Legal, Audit, HR, Comms — but also for each of us as citizens. With a better understanding of what works from a legal perspective, we can make smarter decisions about who we vote for.
To learn more about Benjamin's work, visit his website 👉https://www.uva.nl/profiel/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html?cb
You can also find him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/benfuzi
How can companies be better at managing the strategic risks they face in an uncertain world?
This episode is part two of my discussion with Hans Læssøe on Strategic Risk.
If you haven’t yet listened to Part 1 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/hans-lassoe-on-strategic-risk-part-one/ - then I recommend that you do that first.
Having explored how Hans’ career evolved in Part 1 of our discussion, in this episode we look in more detail at the techniques and principles which Hans uses in his work.
Hans now works as an independent risk consultant and trainer. You can find out more about his work 👉https://aktus.dk/
How can companies be better at managing the strategic risks they face in an uncertain world?
My guest on this episode Hans Læssøe, spent over 35 years working for Lego. He held a variety of roles within the company, culminating in being responsible for developing and running Lego’s Strategic Risk Management program. In other words, helping Lego Senior Management to better understand and mitigate the risks they face on a strategic level — the things that could derail their ability to deliver those little bricks into our hands and keep themselves in business.
In this, Part One of our discussion — Part Two is in the next episode of the podcast —we explore how Hans came to work at Lego and head the risk function. He also explains how he approaches uncertainty and the key techniques that can be deployed to manage Strategic Risk.
Hans now works as an independent risk consultant and trainer. You can find out more about his work 👉https://aktus.dk/
What is Clubhouse and why should you care? Clubhouse is a new(wish!) social media network that is focused on live audio content. The audio element isn’t the only thing that differentiates Clubhouse from other networks. It also offers a very different user experience - one that relies heavily on Behavioural Science. As an active user of Clubhouse, for professional and personal reasons, I’m fascinated by the opportunities it offers and the BeSci that’s been used to drive the user experience.
Even if you’re not a user of social media, you’ll be aware of the impact it is having on human decision-making. In a previous episode, I spoke with Evelyn Gosnell and Lindsay Juarez - two behavioural Scientists who helped one social media network, TikTok, to limit the spread of unverified information. You can hear that 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/evelyn-gosnell-lindsay-juarez-on-reducing-the-spread-of-misinformation-on-social-media/
On this episode, I'm joined by Dr Ali Fenwick who has just published a book on Clubhouse called “Everything you need to know about Clubhouse: What is it, why should you care, and how to get started?: The Ultimate Guide”. It’s a user guide, a behavioural analysis of how it works and a competitor analysis that explores how it is positioned against the other platforms. You can find a link to that here 👉 https://www.hult.edu/blog/everything-you-need-to-know-about-clubhouse/. It’s a user guide, a behavioural analysis of how it works and a competitor analysis that explores how it is positioned against the other platforms.
Ali is Professor of Organizational Behavior and Innovation at Hult Business School, where his research focuses on the behavioural foundations of organizations and management and explores how psychological interventions can be applied within the (digital) workplace to increase employee well-being and organizational performance. He’s also a Behavioural Science practitioner working with business, education, government & NGOs.
To find out more about Ali 👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/afenwick/
Whether you’re an experienced Clubhouse user, waiting to get access - if so get in touch with me via www.human-risk.com - have never heard of it, or have absolutely no interest in joining it, what Ali reveals will be of interest to you. Because the techniques he describes, aren’t just being deployed by social media. They influence our decision-making in other fields as well. What you’ll also hear is a positive argument for social media, because as Ali points out many of the benefits that Clubhouse offers are socially beneficial. At least for now.
If you’re on Clubhouse, you can find me @humanrisk 👉 https://clubhousedb.com/user/humanrisk
Do join me for my regular slots in:
The Behavioral Hacks Club 👉 https://clubhousedb.com/club/1244868721-behavioral-hacks
The Diversifi BeSci Network 👉 https://clubhousedb.com/club/650742502-diversifi-global-network
The PivotPoint Ideas Lab 👉 https://clubhousedb.com/club/565255043-the-pivot-point-ideas-lab
How can Behavioural Science help us to better plan for the future? That's the subject of a new book by Dr Grace Lordan, who is my guest on this episode. In Think Big: Take Small Steps and Build the Future You Want, she explores how Behavioural Science can get us closer to to the life we’d like to live.
Whether you fantasise about changing industry, landing a big promotion, writing a screenplay, setting up your own company or starting your own podcast (a terrible idea by the way 😉) Think Big has some practical Behavioural Science infused ideas for how to go about it.
In our discussion, we explore how she came to write the book and what she learned from writing it.
For more on Thing Big 👀👉https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/315/315350/think-big/9780241420164.html
Grace is the Founding Director of The Inclusion Initiative, Director of the MSc in Behavioural Science and an Associate Professor in Behavioural Science at the London School of Economics and Political Science. For more about her 👉https://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/People/Dr-Grace-Lordan
Grace previously appeared on the podcast in these episodes:
Cognitive Diversity & Privilege 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/dr-grace-lordan-on-privilege-cognitive-diversity/
Inclusion 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/dr-grace-lordan-on-inclusion/
What can football teach us about human decision-making? That’s what ESPN commentator and expert on the German Bundesliga Derek Rae, helps me to explore on this episode.
Even if you’re not a sports fan, what Derek has to share are some fascinating insights into how we see the world. Given his job involves observing other people doing theirs, he has an invaluable perspective on human decision-making.
In our wide ranging discussion, we explore also how Derek, a Scotsman, became a fan of the German Bundesliga and why he is still so passionate about it. The answers are highly relevant to recent news concerning the proposal to develop European Super League. That which was announced after we recorded this episode, but we address many of the issues that led to the German Clubs not participating.
What you’ll hear on this episode are the thoughts of a highly engaging expert in his field with fascinating insights to share.
If you like this episode, do also check out other episodes featuring Raphael Honigstein:
https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/raphael-honigstein-on-the-psychology-of-football/
Ben Cohen on the Hot Hand
https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/ben-cohen-on-the-hot-hand/
In our discussion we talk about the German “50+1”Rule that restricts ownership of clubs. This video explains it clearly.
https://youtu.be/GebbvzMod_4
To see examples of Derek’s Back Garden Bundesliga
https://twitter.com/raecomm/status/1261443532721500160?lang=en
https://twitter.com/RaeComm/status/1322161026184450050?s=20
https://twitter.com/RaeComm/status/1264281157883043845?s=20
What’s the biggest risk you’ve ever taken?
The answer to that question, will tell you a lot about your own Risk Fingerprint. That’s the term that my guest Michele Wucker used to describe our individual approaches to risk. Michele is the author of the Gray Rhino and she’s just published s brand new book called “You Are What You Risk”, which explores this topic.
In our discussion, we explore the Gray Rhino and then move into talk about how our perspective on risk, defines who we are. As ever, Michele has some fascinating insights.
The artwork Michele and I discuss on the episode is called Real Rhinos Wear Pink by Chicago artist Matt Coglianese who works by the name of The Pig Shark. You can see it 👉https://www.thepigshark.com/escape-artists-2-series/real-rhinos-wear-pink
To find out more about Michele, visit her website 👉https://www.wucker.com/
For more on You Are What You Risk 👉https://www.wucker.com/writing/you-are-what-you-risk/
For more on The Gray Rhino 👉https://www.wucker.com/writing/the-gray-rhino/
What makes some social movements successful and others not? That's what my guest on this episode Dr Gia Nardini, an Assistant Professor at Denver University, set out to find out when she examined the Black Lives Matter movement last summer.
Gia specialises in consumer experience and last summer, She and her colleagues were planning to study how the Marriage Equality movement had been so successful. The idea being that many of the drivers behind consumer behaviour — in simple terms, what makes us buy things — are also of relevance when it comes to successful social justice movements.
As Black Lives Matter protests broke out across the US and globally, Gia and her team shifted their approach - why study something that had happened, when you could study something that was happening? So they pivoted and began to look at a social justice movement in real-time.
What emerged were some interesting insights into what makes social movements successful. Rather than just write a piece of research, what Gia and her team did was to author a guide that other social movements can use. The secret sauce that makes social justice movements successful — or not.
I find this fascinating. Why do some campaigns succeed and others fail? And how does someone specialising in consumers, think of the idea of applying that to social movements?
In our discussion, we explore the findings of her latest research and her earlier work on experiencing.
For more on Gia 👉 https://daniels.du.edu/directory/gia-nardini/
To read her research on Social Movements 👉 https://www.du.edu/news/research-why-was-black-lives-matter-so-successful
For more on Experience vs Memory 👉https://www.headspace.com/blog/2015/08/19/remembering-vs-experiencing/
How can we mitigate human risk in a profession to ensure that practitioners engage in ethical practice and customers can rely on the people they engage? It's a challenge facing many new digital industries where the ethical and professional challenges are obvious, but regulation and control are clearly lacking.
It's equally been a challenge for my chosen field of Applied Behavioural Science (BeSci). Like many rapidly growing fields, Applied BeSci is currently unregulated. Equally, there hasn’t historically been a professional body that directly serves the interests of both practitioners and those who buy BeSci services. This means there aren’t any professional standards, making it is hard for people buying BeSci consulting & training. After all, how can they know that they’re being advised by people who, to put it simply, know what they’re talking about and are operating on an ethical basis?
Fortunately, things are now changing thanks to GAABS, the recently founded Global Association of Applied Behavioural Scientists. Not only am I fascinated by this as a case study for how we can think about protecting new industries from human risk, but as I recently became a Member of GAABS, I wanted to know more.
So, on this episode, I'm joined by Araminta Naylor and Dr Nick Hobson, respectively a Founding Member and Board Member of GAABS. In our discussion, we explore the rationale for establishing GAABS. We also discuss the criteria for membership are and how the association will help practitioners and clients. Whether you work in Behavioural Science and are interested in joining GAABS, or a potential client of Applied Behavioural Science Firms like mine (👀👉www.human-risk.com), understanding how GAABS came about and what it aims to achieve, is required listening.
If you're not either of those, what you'll hear are some fascinating insights into how we can manage human risk in an industry that isn't regulated.
Whatever your reason for listening, do also stick around to hear Nick give some unintentionally terrible advice that you absolutely should NOT follow, and for me tell the story of how a conman tricked me. It goes without saying that neither story are things you should try at home.
To find out more about GAABS, visit 👉https://gaabs.org/
You can learn more about Nick by visiting 👉https://www.behaviorist.biz/ and Araminta by visiting 👉http://www.influenceatwork.co.uk/our-team
To hear Nicks' "It's all just a bunch of BS" podcast 🎧 👉 https://www.behaviorist.biz/bspodcast
The previous episode of the Human Risk podcast that featured Nick is 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/dr-nick-hobson-on-bs/
When it comes to decision-making, there are few roles that have as much impact on everyone's lives as those taken by politicians. But what is it about politics, that brings out human risk?
On this episode, I'm joined by Eliot Wilson. He's a former Clerk to the UK Parliament — a role that saw him working to help run the operations of what is affectionately referred to as 'The Mother of Parliaments'. Today Eliot helps companies to adapt their strategy and communications to meet the needs of the 21st century. As a result, he's perfectly placed to help us explore the human risk within Parliament and whether the structures that have enabled it to survive, are still fit for purpose.
In our discussion, we explore politics from behind the scenes, how traditional parliamentary structures get the best — and the worst —out of politicians and whether we get the politicians we deserve.
For more information on:
The UK Parliament 👉https://www.parliament.uk/
The House of Commons (lower chamber of parliament) 👉https://www.parliament.uk/business/commons/
The House of Lords (upper chamber of parliament) 👉 https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/
Select Committees 👉 https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/committees/select/
Erskine May, the "parliamentary Bible" 👉 https://erskinemay.parliament.uk/
The English Football Player, Marcus Rashford 👉 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Rashford
For more on Eliot's work 👉https://pivotpoint.group/
To listen to the PivotPoint podcast which Eliot hosts 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-pivot-point-podcast/
How can we be smarter about interpreting the data that is presented to us? On a daily basis, we’re bombarded with information — some of it well-intentioned, some of it deliberately misleading. Whether it’s figures about COVID, claims in advertisements, statistics in sports, data in a work context or facts we’re being told by our friends - we all have to compute information to understand the world around us.
But how can we make sense of it to allow us to make better decisions and avoid human risk? That's where my guest, Tim Harford, can help us. Tim is an economist, journalist and broadcaster. He is the author of a recently published book called “How To Make the World Add Up” / “The Data Detective” that explores just that.
He is also a senior columnist at the Financial Times, and the presenter of BBC Radio’s “More or Less”, “How To Vaccinate The World”, and “Fifty Things That Made the Modern Economy”, as well as the podcast “Cautionary Tales”.
As you'll know if you've heard him before, Tim is highly skilled at telling stories in an engaging way, that help make complex ideas simple. On the show, I describe him as an "Explainer" and "Fact Checker" and we explore both of these concepts. We also discuss the key messages in his book and what we can all do to be smarter about interpreting the information we're presented with.
You can find out more about Tim's podcasts and books via the following links:
How to vaccinate the world 🎧 👉 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m000py6s
Cautionary Tales 🎧 👉 https://timharford.com/etc/more-or-less/
The Data Detective (🇺🇸/🇨🇦) 👀👉https://timharford.com/books/datadetective/
How to make the world add up (ROW) 👀👉https://timharford.com/books/worldaddup/
To sign up for Tim's newsletter and learn more about his other activities 👀👉https://timharford.com/
Can gender diversity on Boards reduce misconduct?
That's what my guest on this episode, Barbara Casu of The Business School in London, explored in recent research into the banking sector. Barbara is a Professor of Banking and Finance and she's also Director of Centre for Banking Research. In a paper published in December, Barbara and her colleague Dr Angela Gallo showed that banks with a strong female presence on the board of directors incurred fewer financial penalties for wrongdoing.
The study, titled Gender Diversity and Bank Misconduct, uncovered data suggesting that banks with strong diversity at the top were more compliant, and tended to avoid the same level of financial punishment compared to those with male-dominated boardrooms, with significant equivalent savings of $7.48 million per year.
On the episode, we explore the impetus behind the research, what they discovered and what the implications are for the industry going forward. Barbara's insights are fascinating and illustrate that if we want to mitigate Human Risk, a focus on diversity and inclusion is critical.
For more on the Centre for Banking Research 👉https://www.cass.city.ac.uk/faculties-and-research/centres/cbr
To read more about the research 👉https://www.cass.city.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2019/december/gender-diverse-boardrooms-reduce-bank-misconduct-penalties-by-748m-per-year-study-finds
You can download the paper 👉https://www.cass.city.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/510975/Arnaboldi_et_al_2020.pdf
How can we make it easier for people to do the right thing? My guest on this episode, Maarten Hoekstra, is fascinated by this challenge of "making the good, doable". Maarten is Co-Chair of the Behaviour & Culture Roundtable of the Dutch Asociation of Compliance Officers (VCO). For more on that (🇳🇱) 👉https://www.vco.nl/kennistafels/gedrag-cultuur
I've known Maarten for a few years and he is one of the most innovative and thought-provoking people I've come across dealing with Human Risk-related matters. In our discussion, we explore what 'doing the right thing' means and how we can build frameworks that empower people to do that, rather than try to force rules on them that might not be applicable or might have unintended consequences.
During our discussion we explore:
The 🇳🇱tradition of Zwarte Piet, or 'Black Pete' which is explained in this National Geographic article 👉https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/black-pete-christmas-zwarte-piet-dutch
The ethics of autonomous vehicles which is explored in this Nature article 👉https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-07135-0
The episode of this podcast featuring Dr Roger Dooley on Friction 👉https://www.spreaker.com/episode/21190498
To watch Maarten's video exploring his Broccoli Method, which I reference in the introduction 👉 https://youtu.be/DVnihb9iOiM
How has COVID facilitated Pink Collar Crime?
That's what my guest on this episode, Kelly Paxton, is here to explain. This is her second appearance on the show (you'll find the first here 👉https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/kelly-paxton-on-pink-collar-crime/).
If you missed that, then you may be wondering what Pink Collar Crime is. The answer is that its a form of Human Risk that Kelly specialises in helping people to avoid and resolve. More specifically, Pink Collar Crime are embezzlement-type crimes like bookkeeping fraud that have historically been perpetrated more by women than men. That, of course, isn’t because men don’t commit this type of crime. But rather because there are more women doing the types of role that permit it. As Kelly emphasises on the show, men are just as capable of committing pink collar crime as women.
In our discussion, we explore how COVID has made Pink Collar Crime more prevalent and what the warning signs are. We also talk about her new book and podcast and hear some of the stories about Pink Collar Crime incidents she's investigated.
As ever with Kelly, it's gripping and highly informative content, presented with her customary sense of humour.
To find out more about Kelly, Pink Collar Crime and her podcast, visit her website: https://kellypaxton.com/
You can read about her new book here: https://pinkcollarcrime.com/new-book-1
What can we do to reduce the spread of misinformation on social media?
That was the challenge facing my guests on this episode and, having succeeded, they came onto the show to talk about what they'd learned. Evelyn Gosnell and Lindsay Juarez work for Irrational Labs, a Behavioural Science consultancy. On a recent project, they worked with social media platform TikTok, to reduce the spread of misinformation on the platform. By encouraging users to think before sharing certain types of content, they were able to reduce the spread of unverified information.
In the episode, we explore how they went about this, what they learned from the experience and where they see the future of preventing the spread of misinformation. What they share are fascinating insights into a 21st-century human risk problem, that behavioural science can help to resolve.
For more on my guests, Evelyn & Lindsay
Evelyn 👉 https://irrationallabs.com/our-team/?view=evelyn-gosnell
Lindsay 👉 https://irrationallabs.com/our-team/?view=lindsay-juarez
For more on Irrational Labs and the work they do: 👉https://irrationallabs.com/
For more on the broader topic, I recommend this piece co-authored by Evelyn and her colleagues: 👉 https://techcrunch.com/2021/02/17/reducing-the-spread-of-misinformation-on-social-media-what-would-a-do-over-look-like/?guccounter=1
To read press coverage of their work:
👉https://cheddar.com/media/tiktok-prompts-users-when-content-is-flagged-as-misleading
👉https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/tiktok-warn-users-about-sharing-misleading-content-n1256668
What do Magic, Money & The Mind have in common? They're all things that interest my guest on this episode, Paul Craven. As he explains, the tricks our minds play on us is what allows magic tricks to amaze us and drives many of our financial decisions.
Paul is an expert in behavioural science, decision making, investment and psychology, applying the inner operations of the mind to the economic world. On this episode, you can hear Paul do a magic trick on the podcast - no mean feat, given you can't see him and hear about what he's learned from his extensive career in finance. He's got some fabulous stories and fascinating insights, which he tells in an engaging style.
In our discussion, Paul talks about:
Aristotle's ideas on Rhetoric: 👉 https://boords.com/ethos-pathos-logos
Charles Ellis 'Winning The Loser's Game' 👉 https://g.co/kgs/FPoVmR
Illusionist Derren Brown's story about dealing with a potential attacker by distracting him 👉https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/derren-brown-explains-how-reduce-mugger-tears-using-nothing-words-9859017.html
Louise Leakey's TED Talks on Humanity's Origins 👉 https://www.ted.com/talks/louise_leakey_a_dig_for_humanity_s_origins?language=en
Pareidolia, the idea that we see faces in everyday objects. For more on that, I recommend 👉 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22686500 and 👉 https://earthsky.org/human-world/seeing-things-that-arent-there
The Makapansgat jaspilite cobble 👉 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Makapansgat-jaspilite-cobble-a-manuport-from-South-Africa-scale-in-cm_fig4_322234501
You can find out more about Paul on his personal website 👉 https://www.paulcraven.com/ & find him on social media 👉 https://twitter.com/cravenpartners
What's the biggest challenge facing humanity? While the impact of COVID has been severe, an even bigger crisis awaits us if we don't take action. That crisis is the Climate Emergency and it's the subject of this episode. As the effects of climate change become more obvious, and the need to take action ever more urgent, I wanted to speak to someone at the forefront of trying to change human behaviour on a global scale.
That person is Roc Sandford, who is my guest on this episode. Roc is a member of Extinction Rebellion (XR) - an environmental movement, that started in the UK which is focussed on persuading governments to take action to stop climate change. XR's methods have been highly successful in terms of generating publicity, but they've also been met with criticism. Given they need public support to succeed, how can they balance the need to get the public's attention, with activities that might alienate the very people they need to get on board? That's what I explored in my discussion with Roc, where I asked him about his background, XR's mission and the thoughts he has about how they are approaching the challenge they've set for themselves. We also look at the human risks inherent in their approach - how can they attract a broad coalition, without the risk of individuals doing things that might put others off?
Roc's insights and arguments are fascinating. Not just about the environment, but also in terms of subjects like corporate governance - it might surprise you, but a democratic protest group has some ideas that might just help companies to improve the way they run things.
For more on Extinction Rebellion visit their website. In the UK that's https://extinctionrebellion.uk/
and outside the UK https://rebellion.global/
To learn more about Roc, you can visit his website: http://www.rocsandford.com/
How do differences in context, impact behaviour? That’s what my guest on this episode, Behavioural Scientist Elina Halonen, has been exploring as part of her work on behavioural change projects. As she explains, much of the study of behavioural science has been driven by research and the experience of people in so-called WEIRD - that’s Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic - countries. Yet, a large percentage of the world’s population doesn’t live in that type of environment. The culture we live in, the language we speak, and other contextual elements, can all impact how we make decisions. That matters if we're trying to understand and influence others. What might it, for example, mean for companies who try to impose global standards or cultures?
Elina is also a keen dog lover and discovered, as she was training her dogs, that it had a lot in common with the ways we try to influence human decision-making. We also explore that, and what it has in common with cross-cultural psychology.
On the show, Elina mentions:
The Behaviour Change Society - https://behaviorchangesociety.com/home
Mind In Context, her resource on cross-cultural psychological research - https://www.mindincontext.com/
Her company Square Peg Insight - https://www.squarepeginsight.com/
Keith Payne’s book The Broken Ladder: How Inequality Affects The Way We Think, Live & Die - https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/keith-payne/the-broken-ladder/9781474601139/?v2=true
Joseph Henrich’s book The Weirdest People In The World - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/193/193790/the-weirdest-people-in-the-world/9781846147968.html
Conversations are a key part of how we communicate - but how do they actually work & what might go wrong? That's what my guest on this episode, Professor Elizabeth Stokoe, helps me to understand in...a conversation! Liz is the Professor of Social Interaction at Loughborough University in the UK. Her research analyses conversations in a wide range of settings. In our discussion, we explore some of the findings of her studies, how she came to specialise in the subject and her thoughts on COVID. Unsurprisingly, given her discipline, Liz is engaging, insightful and entertaining.
To learn more about Liz's research, visit her faculty website 👉https://www.lboro.ac.uk/subjects/communication-media/staff/elizabeth-stokoe/
To find Liz on Twitter 👉 https://twitter.com/LizStokoe
You can watch Liz's TED Talk 📺 here 👉 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtOG5PK8xDA
To learn more about her book 📕Talk: The Science of Conversation 👉 https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/elizabeth-stokoe/talk/9781472140845/
How can we best manage remote teams? What skills can we develop & techniques can we deploy, to be more effective when we're not face to face.
It's a question that doesn't just apply to Line Managers - it's also relevant to those managing human risk. If we want to get the best out of employees, then we need to understand how best to engage with them in a virtual environment.
That's what my guest on this episode, David Burkus, explores in his new book 'Leading from Anywhere: The Essential Guide to Managing Remote Teams'. Filled with practical suggestions, its a guide to engaging with people who aren’t in the same location as you.
In our discussion, David shares some fascinating insights about what he’s learned about the subject, that obviously apply to leaders but are also hugely relevant to everyone trying to engage with others remotely.
For more on the book 👉https://davidburkus.com/books/leading-from-anywhere/
To learn about the Compliance Communication Toolkit, a joint project with FrontLine AntiBribery, visit 👉https://www.human-risk.com/toolkit
How can making people accountable change their behaviour and mitigate human risk? Given recent history, can enforcing accountability in the banking industry, drive behaviour change?
That's what my guest on this episode Professor Elizabeth Sheedy, helps me to explore. She has been researching rules recently implemented by Financial Services regulators to ensure senior management are held accountable for their actions - like, for example, the Australian Banking Executive Accountability Regime (BEAR) and the UK's Senior Managers & Certification Regime (SMCR).
Elizabeth, who has been a previous guest on the — link 👇— is at Macquarie University in Sydney, and she specialises in researching Risk Governance, Culture and Remuneration in Financial Institutions. Her latest research explores whether the introduction of BEAR has resulted in a change in behaviour in the Australian banking system.
In our discussion, we explore the rationale for introducing an Accountability regime, what lessons can be learned from it so far & whether it has been successful. We also look at how Elizabeth's work helps to keep regulators in check.
For more on BEAR 👉https://bit.ly/2MRfXuH and SMCR 👉https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/senior-managers-certification-regime
You can read Elizabeth's research 👉http://ssrn.com/abstract=3775275 with a summary article on it 👉https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/apra-macquarie-says-bear-regime-is-showing-sharp-teeth-20210204-p56zfr
To discover more of Elizabeth's research 👉https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/elizabeth-sheedy
For more on the Australian Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry 👉https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_into_Misconduct_in_the_Banking,_Superannuation_and_Financial_Services_Industry
You can hear Elizabeth's previous appearance on the podcast 🎧 👉 https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/professor-elizabeth-sheedy-on-behaviour-in-banking/
Exploring COVID from a Behavioural Scientist’s perspective.
As COVID continues to dominate our lives, there’s no shortage of information about the virus. But often it is presented from a national or global perspective. Yet, if you or someone close to you catches the virus, it’s a deeply personal experience. Given Behavioural Science is all about understanding things from the perspective of the end-user, is there something it can teach us about experiencing COVID?
On this episode, Behavioural Scientist Robbie Tilleard helps me to think about COVID from the perspective of someone who has had it. Robbie recently contracted the virus and, after suffering symptoms, went for a test. That came back positive. As a result, he went into isolation. During that experience, he discovered that there was information he’d wished he had to help him during his recovery. So he documented them in a Twitter thread to help others. You can read that thread here: https://twitter.com/rtilleard/status/1348331850150907906
What he had to say about the patient journey was really interesting.
So I asked him onto the show to hear more. In our discussion, Robbie explores his COVID experience through the lens of Behavioural Science - what was it like and what information or support would it have been useful for him to have? In simple terms, how could we make the experience of someone having to manage the illness at home, easier? Robbie used to work at the Behavioural Insights Team, the UK governments Nudge Unit, so has experience thinking about how to engage large populations more effectively.
He now works at Humu - a company that looks at improving employee effectiveness in the workplace. That’s something we also talk about later in our discussion. What emerges are some fascinating insights from someone who understands behaviour and the experience of having COVID.
For more on Humu, visit -https://humu.com/
To learn more about Robbie’s former employer, The Behavioural Insights Team, visit - https://www.bi.team/
Other Human Risk podcasts on a COVID theme:
Luca Dellanna with some early insights into COVID that turned out to be highly accurate and insightful - https://www.spreaker.com/episode/23229479
Mark Heywood on how COVID impacted the Creative Industries - https://www.spreaker.com/episode/24201065
Ricardo Pellafone on how COVID is impacting Ethics & Compliance -
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/24677995
Social Media Star Eggsy on going viral in a pandemic - https://www.spreaker.com/episode/25527513
Pooj Morjaria on holding companies to account under COVID -
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/26091563
Professor Benjamin Van Rooij on Compliance under COVID -
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/26091563
Sexologist Jill McDevitt on how our experience in managing HIV, can inform our response to COVID: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/37619266
How do our senses impact our view of the world around us? Can we influence them to change how we perceive things? That's what my guest Professor Charles Spence is here to help me understand.
Charles is the author of a new book called Sensehacking: How to Use the Power of Your Senses for Happier, Healthier Living. He's also Professor of Experimental Psychology at Oxford University, where he leads the Crossmodal Research Laboratory that explores how our senses work, so he's well qualified in this space.
Charles was a guest on an earlier episode of the podcast (https://www.spreaker.com/episode/31722779) where he talked about gastrophysics.
In our discussion, we explore Sensehacking: what does it mean, how does it work and what can we do to improve our lives by using it? As ever, he's a fascinating and insightful guest.
For more on Charles' work:
https://www.psy.ox.ac.uk/research/crossmodal-research-laboratory
To read more about his book Sensehacking:
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/308/308513/sensehacking/9780241361139.html
How can Compliance feel less burdensome & more aligned with the businesses it is there to protect? In this episode, I return to exploring how Compliance, a 'brand' I hate but forms a cornerstone of managing Human Risk, can be made more effective. To do that, I'm joined by Nick & Gio Gallo, thought-leaders in the Compliance space.
Nick & Gio co-founded and are co-CEOs of a company called ComplianceLine (https://complianceline.com/) and hosts of the Ethics Experts podcast (https://theethicsexperts.simplecast.com/). Having both experienced Compliance on the front line of business, they think there's a better way for organisations to manage risk. I agree; which is why they're on the podcast.
In our discussion, we explore why companies sometimes get Compliance badly wrong, and what they can do to get it right. Nick & Gio talk about the shift from Compliance 1.0 (a legal approach of 'keeping people out of jail'), via Compliance 2.0 ('efficiency') to Compliance 3.0 (designing it with humans in mind to maximise the potential for human capital). And they've got some fascinating thoughts about how to make things better.
Whether you're in Compliance or are subject to its rules, Nick & Gio's insights are well worth hearing.
What is Unconscious Bias? It's a term we've been hearing a lot recently and you might even have been sent on training to help you understand and manage it. That's what I began exploring with Dr Magda Osman at the end of Episode 92 of the podcast. Both Magda & I felt we had some unfinished business, so she kindly agreed to come back to finish the discussion. So on this episode, we explore both aspects of Unconscious Bias - the Unconscious & Biases.
Find out more about Magda & her research here: http://www.magdaosmanresearch.co.uk/
The previous episode she featured in (#92) is here: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/42313571
What can Compliance learn from Art & Design? They're not normally things we associate together. But my guest on this episode, Andra Popa has a background in art. She then became a Lawyer and finally a Compliance Officer. That path has informed how she looks at Compliance. What's even more remarkable, is that she does it in an industry where compliance failures are literally a matter of life and death; healthcare.
In our discussion, we explore how Andra came to be a Compliance Officer an how she goes about approaching the challenges of inflcuneing human behaviour. She's got some fascinating insights and ideas to share.
To find out more about Andra's work visit her website: https://designandcompliance.com/
You can also read an interview with her here:https://www.slideshare.net/AndraMPopa/an-interview-about-design-compliance
I also mention The Table of Eleven. You can read about that here: https://www.oecd.org/env/outreach/33962815.pdf
What is Prosilience, and how can organisations ensure their people provide it?
That’s where the discussion between my guests on this episode, Gerald Ashley and Rory Sutherland, begins. Where it goes from there, is a joyous adventure in which two great thinkers explore a range of Human Risk related topics.
- Listener Warning: the episode contains adult language *
This episode is the 100th in the Human Risk podcast series and is a continuation of a discussion which began in the 99th episode. I recommend listening to that first before exploring this one.
You'll find my earlier discussion with Rory here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
and Gerald here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
As with the previous episode, I’m providing more detailed show notes given the breadth and depth of issues covered.
05:18 Rory refers to Seeing Like A State by James C Scott. More on that here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State
05:54 Gerald talks about the metrics used to measure Soviet bicycle manufacturing. This article doesn’t feature bicycles, but covers the idea and features a wonderful cartoon from a Soviet magazine: https://econlife.com/2015/08/the-incentives-that-metrics-create/
09:32 Rory talks about his appearance on Bloomberg TV. You can watch that here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-03-25/advertisers-becoming-too-obsessed-with-tech-sutherland
11:50 Rory mentions Rod Liddell in the context of a story about the BBC’s travel policy. To learn more about Rod: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Liddle
12:34 Gerald mentions Peter Turchin, who Rory explains is a Cliodynamicist. You’ll find Peter’s website here: http://peterturchin.com/ and a guide to Cliodynamics one that website here: http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamics/
14:10 A rare intervention by me to mention David Graber’s book Bullshit Jobs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
14:30 Rory refers to 14th Century Middle Eastern Historian Ibn Khaldoun - https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ibn-Khaldun
15:04 Gerald talks about The Great Wave by David Hackett Fischer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Wave_(book)
18:25 Rory talks about Daniel Kahneman’s research into risk appetites of CEOs and division heads. You can read more about that in this HBR article: https://hbr.org/2020/03/your-company-is-too-risk-averse
19:40 Gerald talks about the Lockheed Martin Skunkworks. You can read about the history of that unit here https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/history/skunk-works.html and its current role here: https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/who-we-are/business-areas/aeronautics/skunkworks.html
22:59 Gerald talks about Nudgestock, the annual Behavioural Science festival hosted by Rory. You can read about that here: https://www.nudgestock.co.uk/
The presentation he refers to is by Jules Goddard called The Fatal Bias and can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNlzl37GLdA
24:46 Rory highlights the story of mathematician’s Abraham Wald intervention in the Second World War. It is explained in this excerpt from Jordan Ellenberg’s excellent How Not To Be Wrong: https://medium.com/@penguinpress/an-excerpt-from-how-not-to-be-wrong-by-jordan-ellenberg-664e708cfc3d
25:56 Rory talks about IBM’s Thomas Watson and his desire to have Wild Geese. In actual fact, Watson talked about Wild Ducks (https://www.mbiconcepts.com/watson-sr-and-wild-ducks.html). Interestingly, the Duck story actually comes from an original fable by Søren Kierkegaard about a Wild Goose. For some reason Watson preferred Ducks! You can read the Kierkegaard story here: https://www.maxelon.co.uk/2015/01/domestic-geese/
26:18 Rory refers to James C Scott’s idea of an Anarchist’s Squint. You can read more about that in his collection of essays called Two Cheers for Anarchism: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/james-c-scott-two-cheers-for-anarchism
32:33 Gerald talks about how the British government sold Rolls Royce engines to the Russian government. You can read about that here: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-british-turbojet-allowed-russias-mig-15-fight-the-air-26385
32:50 Rory explains how penicillin was passed by America to supposedly neutral countries during World War Two, against British instructions. It ended up saving Adolf Hitler’s life after a bomb plot on 20th July 1940. More on the research behind that here: https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/news/nr/154-1.175018
40:05 Rory references British supergroup The Travelling Wilburys. Find out who they are here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_Wilburys. You can hear them on Spotify here: https://open.spotify.com/artist/2hO4YtXUFJiUYS2uYFvHNK?si=eqMFhifpSIai03kZPFHOVQ
How do networks influence our decision-making?
As the Human Risk podcast approached its 100th episode, I thought I’d invite back two guests whose previous appearances have been amongst the most downloaded. And I’m glad I did. Because what Rory Sutherland and Gerald Ashley delivered, wasn’t worthy of a single episode - it was worthy of two!
So on this, the 99th episode of the podcast, I’m sharing Part I of their conversation. In it, they explore a subject they’ve both written about - networks. We all naturally like to make connections between things - sometimes that can be extremely useful, but it can also lead to flawed decision-making.
As many of my listeners will be familiar with Rory and Gerald, I haven’t included introductions. You can find those, if you need them, on their previous appearances on the show.
Gerald’s first appearance is here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/gerald-ashley-on-uncertainty/
Rory first appearance is here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
What makes both such fantastic guests, is that they have lots of stories to tell; in doing so, they often make references that might not be as obvious to listeners not based in the UK.
For that reason, I’ve included much more detailed show notes than usual. If you come across something you’re unfamiliar with, then the timestamps below will hopefully help.
When you’ve listened to this, look out for Part II of their discussion, available wherever you found this shortly after the initial release.
5:35 Rory references a joke involving sheep. He explains it here: - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-wiki-man-11-september-2010
5:41 Rory mentions disgraced former children’s TV presenter Jimmy Saville. Read his story here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile_sexual_abuse_scandal
6:18 Rory talks about the Tube map. Londoners refer to their subway as “The Tube”, and the map of it is “the Tube Map”. You can read about its history and see it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_map
10:00 Rory highlights the Danish Mask Study, which emanated from Denmark, and showed that mask-wearing was ineffective. However, that relied on a particular (wrong!) interpretation of the data. This Twitter thread by Nassim Taleb (https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1331639626101104642?lang=en) and this British Medical Journal article explain why - https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4586
10:36 Rory talks about the tragic case of Sally Clark, a solicitor. You can read her story here - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/mar/17/childrensservices.uknews
12:01 Gerald mentions advertiser Maurice Saatchi, who ate an egg only diet. His wife Nigella Lawson, a chef, revealed some details - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1063289/Nigellas-husband-cracks-obesity-thanks-egg-diet.html
13:30 Rory highlighted how we have persisted with stemmed wine glasses, inspire of them being somewhat ludicrous. Here's an article he wrote about it - https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-ludicrousness-of-stemmed-wine-glasses
15:52 Gerald says he’s not sure what MiniDisc or Blu-Ray are. Here’s what he can read to find out more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDisc and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray
16:48 Rory talks about Geoffrey Miller’s research into evolution. You can read that here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235362665_The_Mating_Mind_How_Sexual_Choice_Shaped_the_Evolution_of_Human_Nature and his website is here: https://www.primalpoly.com/
19:38 Rory mentions two UK crime series Waking The Dead and Inspector Morse. More on those here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waking_the_Dead_(TV_series) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspector_Morse_(TV_series)
22:10 Gerald mentions the Rabbit phone which Rory used to own. Read about that here - https://londonist.com/london/technology/remember-phone-zones-the-mobile-experiment-that-ended-in-disaster
22:49 In his story about the Rabbit phone, Rory talks about the Happy Eater on A40 at Burford. Happy Eater was a chain of roadside restaurants (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Eater), and you’ll find the story of the Burford one here: https://littlechef.fandom.com/wiki/Burford
23:45 Rory highlights Harris Tweed as an under-appreciated invention. Find out more about that here: https://www.harristweed.org/
24:35 Gerald talks about the BBC Microcomputer (what he calls the “Acorn Computer”) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Micro. Here’s the story from The BBC about it: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15969065
25:09 Gerald talks about the Domesday Project, a modern version of the Domesday book (an 11th Century Census of England). It is often cited as a great example of technological obsolesce in action: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Domesday_Project
26:38 Rory highlights Nassim Taleb’s Minority Rules idea, which is explained by Taleb here: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15
28:34 Rory mentions Pimms, which is an alcoholic drink, typically drunk in summer - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimm%27s
28:56 The French Complexity Scientist Rory mentions is Serge Galam. Read more about him here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Galam
29:49 Rory highlights KFC Australia’s Build Your Own Bucket invention - https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2336891243302188
30:08 Rory uses the term “Lindy”. It was coined by Nassim Taleb, and he explains it here: https://medium.com/incerto/an-expert-called-lindy-fdb30f146eaf
30:58 Rory talks about the NHS - the UK’s National Health Service, which is free at the point of delivery. You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service
You can read more about their reliance on fax machines here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46497526
31:04 Gerald talks about Marmite, a yeast-based spread. Read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite and then see how they use the idea of loving it or hating it here:
33:56 Rory mentions The Wason Test, a problem-solving test, which you can explore here: https://www.indy100.com/discover/the-simple-test-that-shows-how-logical-you-are-7302601
33:57 He then highlights Cosmides & Toobey’s version of The Wason Test - https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-imprinted-brain/201205/making-sense-wason
36:36 Gerald talks about Squadcast, which is the recording software I use to record this podcast - https://app.squadcast.fm/
37:47 Gerald talks about China’s Social Credit System. More on that in this article - https://www.wired.co.uk/article/china-social-credit-system-explained
38:45 Rory talks about the transport links in Kent, a county in the South East of the UK. Read more about it here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent
43:14 Gerald and Rory highlight some older video technologies; VHS, Betamax & Video 2000. More on those here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_2000. You can read about the video format wars here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war
43:54 Rory talks about how adult entertainment impacts technology. Read more about that here - https://thenextweb.com/hard-core-high-tech/2016/08/30/porn-pioneers-adult-entertainment-boosts-technology/
On the face of it, the creative industry ought to be very good at adapting it's thinking. After all, people who can think creatively, ought to be able to adapt the way they do things. But, as we've seen during the pandemic, the creative industries are facing similar problems to other businesses: a lack of diversity, business models that are heavily reliant on particular income streams and in some cases, a real existential threat. What is happening and what can the arts do to recover? And what might business learn from the arts and vice versa? That's what I explore with my guest on this episode, Mark Heywood.
In March 2019, Mark joined me on the podcast to explore how COVID was impacting the creative industries. There's a link to that episode below. Given so much has happened since then, I thought I'd get him back for an update and to explore how the pandemic has highlighted some of the Human Risk dynamics inherent in the creative industries. In our discussion, we catch up on what Mark's been up to since we last spoke and explore the challenges an industry that has often survived without always adapting to the changes in society. As ever, his insights into an industry he cares passionately about, are fascinating. Both generally, but also from a Human Risk perspective.
On the episode, Mark mentioned a number of things, details for which are below:
- His show at London's biggest arts festival that was due to tour: https://vaultfestival.com/whats-on/rhubarb-ghetto/
- Online Theatre producers The Show Must Go Online: https://robmyles.co.uk/theshowmustgoonline/
- The National Theatre At Home: https://www.nationaltheatre.org.uk/ntathome
- Chris Rock's opening monologue at the 2016 Oscars: https://youtu.be/kqhVNZgZGqQ
The two podcasts Mark is involved with are:
- Behind The Spine: https://www.behindthespine.co.uk/
- End Of The Line: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-z7pk5-e30e3d?
You can hear Mark's previous appearance on the Human Risk podcast here: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/mark-heywood-on-how-the-coronavirus-is-impacting-the-creative-industries/
When things go wrong in companies, it's usually accompanied by a sense of surprise on the part of senior management. Given we know that employing people will result in some form of Human Risk, wouldn't it be better if we could find a way to ensure there were no surprises? At least, not in areas where controls exist to mitigate the risk.
That's what my guest Jim Oates explores with me on this episode. He's spent his career working in audit in Financial Services, so he's seen plenty of examples of the aftermath of things not going according to plan. His experience as an auditor led him to adopt a strategy of "No Surprises"; working to ensure the Board of Directors of the company aren't surprised by a significant loss or damage to the firm's reputation, due to an unexpected control failure.
In our discussion, we explore some of the events that shaped Jim's career and what he learned from them. The insights he shares about human decision-making and how audit can help to mitigate the risks it poses are fascinating and very timely.
Jim also played an important part in furthering my thinking about Human Risk. He was my boss at UBS when I evolved the idea of "Bringing Behavioural Science to Compliance" and supported me in pursuing the idea. As one of of the early sponsors of the ideas behind it, it's very fitting to have him as a guest on the podcast.
To find out more about Jim and his work, visit his website: https://www.eventumrisk.com/
During our discussion, Jim refers to:
-
CDOs: https://www.thebalance.com/cdos-collateralized-debt-obligations-3305822
-
LIBOR: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19199683
-
Kweku Adoboli: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19660659
How can we prevent poor decision-making at a time of stress, when human action can make a real difference? That's what my guest on this episode, Trisha Ferguson, helps to deliver. She's the CEO of Interaction Research Company (IRC), a firm that advises airlines on passenger safety. And more importantly, from my perspective, designs and produces passenger safety cards.
I'm interested in the cards because they effortlessly combine artistic design with a high degree of functionality. Not only are they an amazing piece of Compliance design, they’re also a critical tool for mitigating Human Risk. Which is why they’re a regulatory requirement. If a plane doesn’t have safety cards on board, then it’s not allowed to take off. That’s because one of the biggest risks, when there’s an incident on an aircraft, is human - how we react, makes all the difference.
So if you were looking for something iconic that neatly summarised Human Risk and my mission to bring behavioural science to compliance, then the airline safety card is probably it. Which is why I wanted to find out more about how the cards are created and approved for use.
In our discussion, we explore the history of IRC and how Trisha came to own the company. She explains the complexities involved in making the cards and the factors that need to be considered. We explore the psychology behind the design and the process they go through to get them into planes.
Airline Safety Cards are also the inspiration for the soon-to-relaunch www.human-risk.com which will have an airline safety card theme.
For more on IRC visit - https://ircprint.com/ and http://safetycards.com/#about
For Trisha's blog visit - https://ircprint.com/2020/06/30/intro-crisis/
What can learn from the study of Behavioural Science? Like many people in the field, I fell into BeSci long after finishing my academic studies. Back then, it wasn't an option that one could study in any case. But now you can, which is why I thought it would be interesting to get a forward-looking perspective from those that are.
On this episode, I speak to Sarah Bowen & Merle Van Den Akker. They're both PhD students with a strong interest in Behavioural Science and they're the hosts of Questioning Behaviour, a BeSci podcast that explores things from the perspective of those studying and researching it. In addition, in her Money On The Mind blog, Merle explores the BeSci dynamics behind the financial decisions we make.
Our discussion explores their thoughts on the study of BeSci and where things might go in future.
Questioning Behaviour - https://questioningbehaviour.podbean.com/
Money On The Mind - https://www.moneyonthemind.org/
What's the difference between Risk and Uncertainty? That's what my guest on this episode, Dr Colin Lawrence, helps me to explore. He's spent his entire career looking at risk and has been a Chief Risk Officer, Regulator, Risk Adviser and Academic. So he's got real experience of what it means to consider risk and manage it.
In the episode, we explore what risk means in the context of COVID, water shortages, geopolitics, history and a number of social trends. Colin provides some fascinating insights that will stimulate your mind and get you thinking about risk in new ways. A common manifestation of Human Risk, is an inability to manage risk; the very things that get us into trouble, are the very things that make us bad at managing risk!
You can find out more about Colin and get in touch with him via LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-lawrence-non-executive-director-board-advisor/
or via email colin.lawrence[at]riskandfinancial.com
During our discussion, Colin mentions a number of books:
Professor Yuval Noah Harari - 'Lessons for the 21st Century'.
https://uk.bookshop.org/books/21-lessons-for-the-21st-century/9781784708283
Kim Stanley Robinson - 'The Ministry of the Future'
https://uk.bookshop.org/books/the-ministry-for-the-future/9780356508832
Robert Harris - 'Munich'
https://uk.bookshop.org/books/munich-the-price-of-peace-may-be-too-high-to-bear/9781784751852
He also highlights two articles:
A New Yorker article on the water shortage in Cape Town:
https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/coming-to-terms-with-a-life-without-water
A NY Times article on the lawyer who set up her own law firm to allow her to fulfil her parenting obligations:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/business/a-woman-led-law-firm-that-lets-partners-be-parents.html
And finally a podcast by Ezra Klein on Vox: https://www.vox.com/ezra-klein-show-podcast
What happens when employees have little or no respect for their organization's Compliance Program? It's obviously bad, but how bad? That's what my guest on this episode Professor David Hess has researched. And the answer is 'really bad'; far from it simply being a case of wasted money and effort, it actually increases the likelihood of unethical behaviour. How this happens, and what we can do to prevent it, is what we discuss in this episode. David also shares some of his perspectives on Compliance and how the function can be more effective in delivering its mandate.
David Hess is a Professor of Business Law and Business Ethics at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. His research focuses primarily on the role of the law in ensuring corporate accountability. His publications in this area have analyzed the use of non-financial reporting by corporations; efforts to combat corruption in international business; the link between corruption and business and human rights; and the role of compliance and ethics programs in creating more ethical corporate cultures.
To find out more about David's research visit his website: http://webuser.bus.umich.edu/dwhess/
You can read David's article Chipping Away at Compliance: How Compliance Programs Lose Legitimacy and its Impact on Unethical Behavior here: https://brooklynworks.brooklaw.edu/bjcfcl/vol14/iss1/4/
What can we learn from Behavioural Interventions that fail? That's what my guest on this episode, Dr Magda Osman set out to discover in some recent research. We often hear about 'nudges' that work well to change behaviour, but what about those that don't? Might things that haven't gone according to plan, actually prove to be useful?
The answer is 'yes'. And that's what Magda and I set out to explore in our discussion. Her research ethos is to "take a critical eye to well-accepted views and challenge the status quo". As a result, her research interests cover a range of areas that include decision-making, learning, problem-solving, biases, risk and uncertainty, agency and control, and the unconscious.
As well as her research, we also talk about Unconscious Bias training and explore other areas where behavioural interventions might not be as effective as we might expect.
For a summary of the research I recommend this article: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2258396-what-can-we-learn-from-failed-attempts-to-change-peoples-behaviour/
You'll find the research here: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.tics.2020.09.009
For more on Magda and her research, visit her website: http://www.magdaosmanresearch.co.uk/
What can we learn from religion about ethics? After all, religions have had rules about what people should and shouldn't be doing since well before the advent of Compliance & Ethics functions. And they're also familiar with the fact that codified rules can lead to challenges when it comes to the letter vs the spirit fo the law.
On this episode, my guest Rabbi Yonason Goldson, helps me explore this topic. Blending his knowledge of Scripture, with a fascinating life story, he brings fresh insight into how we can manage Ethics in the 21st Century. We may think we're living in unprecedented times, but previous generations have had to deal with similar issues; just in different contexts.
What Yonasan has to say is insightful and thought-provoking.
For more on him, visit his website: https://www.yonasongoldson.com/ where you'll also find details of his new book, Grappling With The Grey (https://www.yonasongoldson.com/books)
What are kleptocracies and how do they operate? How is dirty money laundered and why is it increasingly a global problem? These are the questions, my guest on this episode, Tom Burgis, sets out to answer in his book Kleptopia: How Dirty Money Is Conquering The World.
Tom is an investigative journalist who writes for the Financial Times. In Kleptopia, he follows the trail left by a Compliance Officer, later turned regulator. What he discovers is an extraordinary tale of Human Risk, that impacts all of us. In our discussion, we explore how he came to explore the story and what lessons we can learn from it. If you work in Compliance, Regulation, Auditing or Law, you'll recognise some of the dynamics Tom is describing. Even if you don't, the impact of kleptocracy is significant for all of us.
To see all the books recommended in this episode, including both of Tom's book, use these links to go to Bookshop.org. By buying from them, UK and US listeners can support their local independent bookshop
UK Link - https://uk.bookshop.org/lists/kleptopia-podcast-recommendations
US Link - https://bookshop.org/lists/kleptopia-podcast
How can we get people to be more honest? That's what my guest on this episode, Dr Benny Cheung, set out to discover. He was commissioned to do so research for the UK's Insurance Fraud Bureau and ran some experiments to see if it would be possible to reduce opportunistic fraud in insurance processes using Behavioural Science. The results suggest that it is.
Given my personal experience with insurance hasn't always been positive, I thought this was worth exploring. So on this episode, I talk to Benny about his work and what we can learn from it. It's relevant to Human Risk, because if we can get people to change their behaviour when they're engaging with an industry they probably don't respect that much, then there are definitely lessons for Compliance, where the attitude may be somewhat similar.
In our discussion, I explore what we can learn from Benny's research and the other insights he's gleaned in his work.
For more on Benny and his company DecTech, visit https://www.dectech.co.uk/
You can read about his experiment here: https://dectech.co.uk/insurance-fraud-prevention/
In our conversation, we talk about Lemonade, an insurer that has a behaviourally-centric business model: www.lemonade.com
What is prejudice, why does it exist and why is it such a bad thing? That's what Economist Paul Donovan seeks to answer in his new book Profit & Prejudice. He explores it from an economic perspective, but prejudice is just as bad from a Human Risk perspective. Which is why he's the perfect guest for the Human Risk podcast.
In our discussion, Paul explains how he came to write what is a fascinating and highly readable book. He highlights why prejudice exists, why it is so pernicious and what he has learned from the experience of writing the book. If you've heard Paul speak before, you'll know you're in for a treat. If you haven't, rest assured he's insightful and entertaining.
For more on Profit & Prejudice visit the publishers' website: https://www.routledge.com/Profit-and-Prejudice-The-Luddites-of-the-Fourth-Industrial-Revolution/Donovan/p/book/9780367566777
Listeners who use the code HR25 will get 25% off the price.
You can also find Paul on Twitter at @PDonovan_econ (https://twitter.com/PDonovan_econ)
Why is it so hard for us to admit mistakes? That's what my guest Stefan Gaillard & I explore in this episode. Stefan is the Editor of The Journal of Trial & Error, a project that seeks to promote the discussion of mistakes. Unlike traditional publications, The Journal actively seeks out things that have gone wrong is academic research, with the aim of learning from it.
If we want to have innovation, we need to accept trial and error. What Stefan and his colleagues have identified is that errors are more commonplace than we might think and yet we don't want to talk about them. During our discussion, we explore the genesis of the Journal and his experiences in attempting to publish things that aren't normally published.
It's a fascinating exploration fo a dynamic we all understand; the fact we're fallible and get things wrong. Yet we often don't want to talk about it. His experience is in academia, but it's highly relevant to all of us.
For more on the Journal visit the website: https://www.jtrialerror.com/the-manifesto-for-trial-and-error-in-science/
And if you're reading this before 30 November 2020, you can also join the launch party for the Journal here: https://bit.ly/36BvXa4
What can the military teach business? Much as companies often talk about 'wars' (most obviously when it comes to talent) and 'battles' (usually for market share), it's not obvious that the two have much in common. Yet, from personal experience, there are lots of former military personnel using the same skills they've developed in their early career, in their second career in business. As this Economist article highlights: https://www.economist.com/business/2020/10/24/what-the-armed-forces-can-teach-business
In my ongoing quest to find interesting ideas in other contexts, I thought it would be a good idea to find out. So on this episode, I'm joined by two guests. One with a military background and one with a financial services background. Together, they provide some fascinating insights.
My first guest, Stuart Tootal spent 20 years in the British Army, where he commanded a Parachute Regiment battalion, which formed the first UK battle group that was sent to southern Afghanistan in 2006.
My second, Greg Davies, is a globally recognised expert in applied decision science, behavioural finance, and financial wellbeing, as well as a specialist in both the theory and practice of risk profiling.
Together, they help me explore how military decision-making and processes can help reduce Human Risk. What they have in common, is something you'll have to listen to the show to find out.
For more on Stuart visit - https://www.matero.co.uk/about/
For more on Greg visit - https://oxfordrisk.com/about-us/greg-b-davies/
During the show, I refer to other episodes of this podcast. You'll find them here:
Rory Sutherland - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Matt Edwards - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/matt-edwards-on-creative-risk-marketing/
Jill McDevitt - https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/dr-jill-mcdevitt-on-sexology-condoms-masks/
If you were looking for a sector that had lots of examples of Human Risk, then you'd probably pick banking? And if you were trying to understand why some of the senior people within banking hadn't been prevented from taking bad decisions, you'd probably look at people who were specifically hired for that purpose; non-executives.
That's what my guest this time, John Sutherland, explores in his new book Ensuring General Wisdom. John is a banking expert, who works as a Senior Adviser to one of the UK's Financial Services Regulators. While working for a UK Parliamentary Commission looking at the Banking Industry, John wondered whether what the role of the non-executives that Boards are required to have really is and whether it is reasonable for them to be expected to have an awareness of everything going on within the organisation.
This led him to research the role of Non-Executives and Trustees and how best for people in those roles to fulfil their function. What emerges are some fascinating insights that are of relevance to those who are, or aspire to be Non-Executives and those with an interest in managing Human Risk at senior level within organisations.
In our discussion, we explore how the book came about and John's thoughts on the banking industry and governance in general.
For details on John's book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52558412-ensuring-general-wisdom
You can find John's lectures here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/jasvidcast-video-webcasts/id1513012881
For more on the Banking Commission which prompted John's interest in the role of the non-executive: https://bit.ly/357WaxA
For more on the Three Lines of Defence model of Risk Management: https://bit.ly/2U3lmiu
What is ergodicity? If it's a new term to you, then listen to my guest Luca Dellanna explain why ergodic thinking is often at the heart of much of our flawed decision-making. This is Luca's second appearance on the show; in February he talked to me about COVID (https://www.spreaker.com/user/human-risk/luca-dellanna-podcast)
His insights were so prescient that I wanted him back. And as he's about to publish a new book on Ergodicity, I thought I'd cover both topics. As ever with Luca, he offers phenomenal insights that make complex topics, easily comprehensible.
For more on Luca visit his website: https://www.luca-dellanna.com/
You can follow him on Twitter here: https://twitter.com/DellAnnaLuca
To subscribe to Luca's highly recommended newsletter: https://www.luca-dellanna.com/newsletter/
For his new book on Ergodicity: https://gumroad.com/l/ergodicity
In our conversation, we refer to Roam, the note-taking website: https://roamresearch.com/
We often think of our body and our mind as being somehow distinct, yet there is a strong linkage between mental health and physical wellbeing. That's what I explore with my guest Leanne Spencer on this episode. Leanne is the founder of Bodyshot Performance, a company that helps organisations to have happy, healthy & resilient teams and individuals with their own well being.
On the episode, we explore the links between mental and physical health and look at some of the techniques we can all use to manage it. We also explore how technology can help support us in that quest.
In our discussion, we refer to:
Leanne's company Bodyshot Performance - https://www.bodyshotperformance.com/
Her book Remove The Guesswork - https://www.bodyshotperformance.com/resource/remove-the-guesswork/
Leanne's podcast - https://www.bodyshotperformance.com/topic/podcasts/
Giulia Enders book Gut - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23013953-gut
The Oura Ring - https://ouraring.com/
Lost Connections by Johann Hari - https://thelostconnections.com/
On this episode, I'm exploring an industry whose product we all sample daily, but probably don't fully understand: music. In the late 1980s and early 1990s, my guest, Dr Glenn Medeiros, was a global pop star with several hit records, including Nothings Gonna Change My Love For You. Perhaps surprisingly given that start, he's now the CEO and President of Saint Louis School in Honolulu, Hawaii.
In our discussion, we explore his experiences in the music industry and the lessons he's learned from it. Rest assured there's plenty of Human Risk there! We also look at how Glenn transitioned from music to education and what he's learned along the way.
This is a fascinating, frank exploration of what it is like to be propelled to global stardom and then building a second career. Glenn is also fabulous company and has some lovely anecdotes to share. Whether you remember him as an artist or have never heard of him before, what he has to say is highly insightful.
For more on Saint Louis School, where Glenn is President visit https://saintlouishawaii.org/
To watch Glenn's videos, including the iconic 'Nothings Gonna Change My Love For You" one or listen to his music, use the links below:
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0bByarMN8ryEFQsRo6iCUN?si=8K584lWuSUueUVWMAigYEA
Nothings Gonna Change My Love For You - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHUVtwUdHuE
She Ain't Worth It (duet with Bobby Brown) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-1vYnFHu2U
We all understand the idea of Confidence and that having it can help us succeed. Equally, not having it can also paralyse us into inaction. So what is the optimal level of confidence?
That's what my guest on this episode, Professor Don Moore, is here to help me understand. He's a professor at the Berkeley Haas School of Business, formerly at Carnegie Mellon. Don is an expert in psychology with his main research focus on overconfidence. And he's recently written a book on the subject called Perfectly Confident. In our discussion, we explore what the optimal balance of confidence is and how you can find it.
To find out more about Don and his book visit his website: https://perfectlyconfident.com/.
We all instinctively know the impact negative reviews have on individuals and organizations; whether TripAdvisor ratings or publicly administered regulatory sanctions. It's not good. Yet there are many people and organisations thriving on precisely that. Sometimes, negative social evaluations, might actually not be a bad thing.
My guest, Dr Thomas Roulet of Cambridge University, has just written a book called 'The Power of Being Divisive; Understanding Negative Social Evaluations'. In our discussion, we explore why divisive politicians can benefit from negative perceptions and why banks who are publicly admonished for bad behaviour, can actually make more money. It's fascinating, often counter-intuitive stuff. In a world where all of us can rate others and be rated ourselves, understanding how we perceive ratings, is highly valuable.
For more on Thomas visit his website: https://www.thomasroulet.com/Thomas_Roulet.html
You'll also find him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/thomroulet
His book The Power Of Being Divisive: https://bit.ly/34BEY1V
What is Human Risk? What does 'Bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance' mean in practice? On this episode, I'm cross-casting an episode of the Ethical Experts podcast that explores Human Risk.
The Ethics Experts (https://compliancepodcastnetwork.net/category/the-ethics-experts/) is hosted by Nick Gallo of Compliance Line (https://complianceline.com/).
As I'm often asked about Human Risk and what I mean by "bringing Behavioural Science to Ethics & Compliance", I thought I'd share this episode with my own listeners. Hopefully, it'll bring the genesis of the Human Risk concept to life & spark further conversations and ideas.
How can organizations ensure they are ethical? We all understand the principle, but what does it mean in practice? As Ethics becomes a more significant factor in how employees, customers and regulators view companies, there is an increasing need to have a program to manage it.
On this episode, I'm joined by Rob Chesnut, the former Chief Ethics Officer for AirBnB. Rob has just written a book about his experiences at AirBnb and eBay among other companies. In our wide-ranging discussion, we explore why ethics is such a challenging topic and what organizations can do to respond to it. Not only does Rob have some great stories to share, but he's also got some innovative ideas about managing the challenge.
For more on Rob and his book, Intentional Integrity visit his website: https://www.intentionalintegrity.com/
What, if anything, have we learned about human behaviour from COVID? That's what I'm exploring in this episode. Six months ago, my friend Mark Heywood invited me onto the first episode of Behind The Spine (BTS); a brand new podcast for writers that looks at genre & narrative. He wanted my thoughts about what impact COVID would have on human behaviour. You'll find that episode as a crosscast on this show.
Recently, Mark kindly invited me back for a "six months later" review to see whether my predictions had turned out to be correct. Fortunately, I didn't do too badly. So on this cross-cast episode, join me as Mark's guest, to explore 6 months of COVID from a behavioural perspective.
For more on Behind The Spine visit the podcast website: https://behindthespine.podbean.com/
On the show, Mark & I refer to a number of UK TV series. If you're not familiar with them, they're all well worth checking out:
Alan Partridge - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Partridge
Spitting Image - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_Image
The Thick Of It - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thick_of_It
The Room Next Door - https://www.michaelspicer.co.uk/
Dr Evil from Austin Powers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Evil
Why are there so many entirely preventable financial disasters? And why don't the people behind the companies that suffer them, prevent them from happening?
That's what my guest Jérôme Tagger and I explore on this episode. He's the CEO of Preventable Surprises, a think-tank that seeks to prevent or at least mitigate corporate and market implosions. What he's dealing with is Human Risk on an epic scale.
Jérôme is also the co-founder and co-host of Breaking The Fever, a podcast and speaker series I've featured on the podcast before. His co-founder and co-host Alison Taylor, has also been on the show before talking about Ethics.
For more on:
Preventable Surprises: https://preventablesurprises.com/
Breaking The Fever: https://preventablesurprises.com/issues/covid-19-breaking-the-fever/
The episode of this podcast featuring Alison Taylor: https://www.podpage.com/the-human-risk-podcast/alison-taylor-on-ethics/
For more on Human Risk:
Twitter account: https://twitter.com/humanriskblog
Newsletter: https://human-risk.com/newsletter-archive/
Video Channel: https://human-risk.com/videoblogs/
When we think of risk, it is usually in the context of 'risk-taking'; in other words, an active decision to do something. But it is equally possible to take risk by doing nothing; passive risk. What differentiates the two and is passive risk really a risk?
That's what my guest this time Dr Johannes Lohse has been researching. In our discussion, we explore a recent paper he published with Dr Christian König-Kersting & Dr Anna Louisa Merkel on this very topic. You can find that here: https://ideas.repec.org/p/inn/wpaper/2020-04.html
This subject is highly relevant to Human Risk, which I define as "the risk of people doing things they shouldn't, or not doing things they should". In other words, both active and passive risk-taking by people.
You can find out more about Johannes' work here: https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/staff/profiles/business/lohse-johannes.aspx
As academic establishments continue to adjust from face to face teaching to being primarily online experiences, how are academics adjusting? That's the start point for my discussion in this episode with Dr Andrew Ishak.
Having seen this article:
https://www.chronicle.com/article/how-to-curate-your-zoom-backdrop-and-why-you-should
he responded with this video to help his academic colleagues seem more 'professorial' during their online sessions:
https://vimeo.com/447645552
That forms the start point of my wide-ranging discussion with Andrew covering both his specialism of Communication and his area of research into how teams perform in high-pressure situations. We explore everything from how sports talk radio deliberately confects debates, to how we can train firefighters to be able to deal with situations that it would be too dangerous to allow them to rehearse in. We cover sport, risk management under COVID and the importance of Communication.
As regular listeners will know, the podcast doesn't follow a strict format, and this episode is no exception.
For more on Andrew and his research, visit his faculty page: https://www.scu.edu/cas/communication/faculty/andrew-ishak/
and personal website: http://www.andrewishak.com/
I also refer to the Compliance Communications Toolkit & the Human Risk Newsletter. More details on those are here: www.human-risk.com
What do you think of when you read the phrase 'Compliance Training'? Something dull that you're either forced to give (if you're in Compliance) or endure (if you're not)? If so, you're not alone. But it doesn't have to be like that. As my guest this time, Travis Waugh, explores in his book Fully Compliant.
Travis is a Learning & Development expert who came to Compliance Training and thought there was a better way to do things. Which is what we explore in this episode of the podcast. So whether you're responsible for Compiance Training, or simply have to go along to it and don't get much out of it, this is the episode for you. Find out why and then help change things in your organization.
For more on Travis' book visit: https://www.td.org/books/fully-compliant
Why do even the smartest and most savvy business people make mistakes? It's not because they're stupid. Instead, it's because of the way our brains work. That's what Professor Olivier Sibony, my guest on this episode, explores in his latest book "You're About To Make A Terrible Mistake".
In that book, he highlights how cognitive biases that underpin our thinking, can lead us to make terrible mistakes. Using fascinating case studies, he explores how we can fall into what he calls decision-making traps and how we can mitigate those. Not by re-programming ourselves, but rather by using collective thinking.
In our discussion, we explore the ideas in his book, and we look ahead to his next book 'Noise' which he's writing with Daniel Kahneman and Cass Sunstein.
For more on Olivier see his website: https://www.hec.edu/en/faculty-research/faculty-directory/faculty-member/sibony-olivier
You'll find details of his book here in English: https://oliviersibony.com/books/youre-about-to-make-a-terrible-mistake/
For articles, presentations and videos, see here: https://oliviersibony.com/articles-presentations/
On this episode, I explore the concept of denial; something we know is bad on an individual level. But what happens when denial takes place on an industrial scale? That's literally what my guest on this episode Barbara Freese, explores in her new book Industrial Strength Denial.
Barbara is an environmental attorney who explores some high profile cases of where corporations have done things that are harmful. Yet faced with proof that they are hurting people or the planet, they deny evidence, blame the victims, complain of witch hunts, attack their critics’ motives, and otherwise rationalize their harmful activities.
Denial campaigns have let corporations continue dangerous practices that cause widespread suffering, death, and environmental destruction.
And, as Barbara goes on to explore, the fact that they undermine social trust in science and government, means that corporate denial has made it harder for our democracy to function.
During our discussion we explore some fo the stories Barbara has researched and written about and look at some of the underlying dynamics; what drives these organisations to denial and what can we do to solve the problem?
You can find out more about Barbara's book here: https://www.barbarafreese.com/industrialstrength-denial
How can we use creativity to solve complex business problems?
That's what Kelly Peters, my guest on this episode does.
Kelly is the CEO and co-founder of BEWorks, a purpose-driven company whose goal is to transform society and the economy through scientific thinking. In simple terms, to use behavioral science to get better business outcomes. BEWorks supports Fortune 100 companies and governments to solve strategic challenges, through creative thinking.
On the show, we talk about how Kelly came to set up the company, the kinds of problems they help solve and how they go about it. We also explore the impact COVID is having on business and business models.
During our discussion, we talk about:
Dan Ariely - https://danariely.com/
VCRs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videocassette_recorder
DVDs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
For more on BEWorks visit their website: www.beworks.com.
You'll find Kelly on Twitter: https://twitter.com/kellybeworks
Why do things often not turn out the way we planned them? That's what my guest, Paul Orlando is interested in discovering. In his blog 👉https://unintendedconsequenc.es/ Paul explores Unintended Consequences and what he calls Second-Order Thinking.
In other words, a failure to think about the second-order implications of events. Looking at topics as wide-ranging as autonomous vehicles and shoplifting, Paul explores this key aspect of failure in human decision-making. On this episode, we dive into Paul's interest in Unintended Consequences and explore some of the key things he's discovered in his research.
As you'll discover, Paul is thoughtful, thought-proking and brings some wonderful insights.
"Why Can't We All Just Get Along?" is a question that we've probably all asked at some point in recent times. And it's one that my guest on this episode, Iain Dale, seeks to answer in his brand new book which has that as its title.
Iain is an award-winning radio presenter on the UK station LBC (www.lbc.co.uk). He's had a fascinating career, as a political candidate, a publisher and a host of other things. In our discussion, we talk about Iain's experiences on radio and what that's taught him about people and how they think. He's got some wonderful stories, which he tells with warmth and in an engagingly self-deprecating style. In his book, which is part autobiographical, part explorative, Iain covers a number of topics relating to Human Risk, and we talk about many of them on the show.
Listener warning: one of the topics we talk about, is the words that you're not allowed to say on UK radio. But you can say them on a podcast. So we do. If you're easily offended, then be warned.
Iain's book is out now published by Harper Collins and is available through all good independent bookshops. You can also order signed copies directly from him at https://bit.ly/3iV5FV6
You can find out more about him on his website.https://www.iaindale.com/
For Iain's LBC radio show, which is on 7pm - 10pm UK time Monday to Thursday and 10am - 12pm Sunday, visit www.lbc.co.uk
What would you do if someone made false allegations online about your home city? Would you go into battle on social media? You would if you're my guest on this episode. Dan Kaszeta was so annoyed by the suggestions that his adopted city of London had 'no go' zones, that he disproved it and then took on others who, with no basis, suggested he was wrong. Dan isn't just an internet troll hunter, he's also a world expert in nerve agents, which form the subject of his latest book.
I like having an eclectic mix of guests on the show and Dan is precisely that. Learn about his background working in the highest level of the US government and his various and varying areas of expertise.
The newspaper article that featured Dan's tweet on the (not a) 'No Go Zone' of Tower Hamlets is here: https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/fearless-security-expert-risks-life-venturing-london-sharia-no-go-zone-7288616/
You can find him on Twitter @dankaszeta
To read Dan's amazing biography visit: http://strongpointsecurity.co.uk/about/staff-bio/
For more on his book Toxic visit his website: http://strongpointsecurity.co.uk/toxic/
In the episode, Dan compares himself to Fred Dibnah. For the uninitiated, here's who Fred was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Dibnah
In industries where human error can be the difference between life & death, how can we manage Human Risk?
The answer is Human Factors, a specialism that blends Behavioural Science & Psychology into operating processes, to ensure that Human Risk is mitigated by design.
My guest on this episode Neil Clark, is the founder of IHF - Integrated Human Factors. He came to my attention because of this project that he was working on in Edinburgh: https://www.insider.co.uk/special-reports/how-fighter-pilot-technology-best-22083132
Having invited him on to talk about that, we ended up having a fascinating conversation about Neil’s background and his work in a number of areas.
You can find out more about Neil’s company on their website - www.ihf.co.uk which also contains some really interesting case studies.
You’ve heard of Zoom Fatigue. But what about Zoom Trauma? It sounds extreme, but an article by my guest on this episode Hanna Thomas Uose suggests that this is precisely what we’re experiencing. I was so intrigued by what she had to say, that I invited Hanna onto the show to talk about it. In our discussion, we explore why she thinks that and what we can begin to improve things. We discuss why Zoom (and other video channels) are so traumatic and what thoughts Hanna has about how we can begin to solve the problem. She’s got some great ideas about how social media and the creative arts can help.
I’m a keen advocate for what Hanna is proposing and I’ll be following it as part of my Human Risk and Compliance Media Toolkit projects.
The original article that prompted this discussion is: https://blog.usejournal.com/the-trauma-of-zoom-bb3609aa41b2
To find out more about Hanna’s work visit her website here: https://www.wealign.net/about-us
She’s also on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hannathomas?lang=en
We also referred to:
A video featuring Professor Robert Kelly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh4f9AYRCZY
The Meeting Owl https://www.owllabs.com/meeting-owl
Sarah Cooper https://twitter.com/sarahcpr
For more on the Compliance Media Toolkit, a guide to having better virtual experiences which is targeted at Compliance staff, but available for free to anyone and relevant regardless of your role, sign up here: https://bit.ly/31zALKy
For more Human Risk related content, follow me on Twitter https://twitter.com/humanriskblog
and subscribe to the Human Risk newsletter here: https://bit.ly/2DpUjcF
As the risks of failing to comply with regulations & ethical standards increase, how can we ensure that employees do what we want them to? This question underpins my whole Human Risk mission; if we see it as an exercise in rule-making, we're likely to deliver frameworks that look good on paper, but fail to understand the underlying human components of what makes people do the things we don't want them to in the first place.
I'm a proponent of "Bringing Science to Compliance". As is my guest. Todd Haugh is an Assistant Professor at Indiana University, specialising in LEAD: Law, Ethics & Decision-Making". So, in my books, he's an Assistant Professor of Human Risk. In our discussion, we explore Todd's research and what he's learned about managing the risks posed by people.
You can find out more about Todd and his research here here:https://kelley.iu.edu/faculty-research/faculty-directory/profile.cshtml?id=THAUGH
What can we learn about Human Risk from Football? Or Soccer for my US listeners?
On this episode, I speak with Raphael Honigstein. Rapha is a sports journalist who covers football (soccer for US listeners) for several media outlets including The Athletic & BT Sport. In our broad-ranging talk, we explore the Human Risk dynamics of a sport where psychology is a prime factor.
In our discussion, I firstly ask Rapha about his passion for the game and how he became a sports journalist. Then we explore a range of different aspects of the game that have a Human Risk angle. How some teams have bent the rules to allow external investors (something that German football has fought hard to prevent for reasons we explain) and why some Managers can extract far better performances from their team than others. We also talk about what the introduction of video assistant referees, a video replay system designed to eliminate human error on the part of referees has meant (and why it seems to have worked much better in Germany than England). And we explore why football players command such high transfer fees and the varied implications of Coronavirus on the game.
To find Rapha's writing in The Athletic use this link. A free trial is available: https://theathletic.co.uk/author/raphael-honigstein/
Rapha's podcast Steilcast, is also produced by The Athletic and is available on all good platforms. Link here: https://theathletic.com/podcast/163-steilcast/
You can find his books on Jürgen Klopp, the rebirth of German football & a German view of English football here: https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/1050718/raphael-honigstein.html
Below you'll find links to the stories we discuss so that you can explore them further if you're interested:
The re-opening of the Bundesliga: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/sports/soccer/bundesliga-rory-smith.html
Home advantage without spectators?
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/german-bundesliga/story/4107639/bundesliga-suggests-home-advantage-a-thing-of-the-past-in-empty-stadiums
The measures the Bundesliga clubs have gone to ensure quarantine:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8311531/Wolfsburg-staying-expensive-quarantine-hotel-Bundesliga-side.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/soccer-is-back-in-germany-but-can-the-season-stay-fair/2020/05/23/e7204f04-9ab9-11ea-ad79-eef7cd734641_story.html
Soloman Kalou incident at Hertha Berlin
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8284991/Former-Chelsea-striker-Salomon-Kalou-seen-making-mockery-coronavirus-hygiene-rules.html
Heiko Herrlich toothpaste incident
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/may/14/augsburg-head-coach-to-miss-bundesliga-restart-after-breaking-quarantine-for-toothpaste
Dynamo Dresden cases
https://www.dw.com/en/bundesliga-setback-dynamo-dresden-in-covid-19-quarantine/av-53385526
Fan Scenes in Paris prior to Lockdown
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/51845054
German football fans protest against owners
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/51800444
German football ownership rules
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/german-soccer-rules-50-1-fifty-plus-one-explained-466583.jsp
The story of Hoffenheim
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/49413-hoffenheim-the-fairytale-football-club#
Bundesliga Club Finances
https://www.forbes.com/sites/manuelveth/2020/04/06/13-of-36-bundesliga-clubs-face-financial-problems-bayern-munich-resumes-practice/#5e2bb51169a7
The Controversy around Video Assistant Referees
https://www.besoccer.com/new/fifa-prepares-plan-to-reduce-controversy-with-var-857634
2020 Champion's League changes
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/025f-0fd4721b794e-bfa28091239f-1000--changes-for-this-season/
How Hansi Flick replaced Niko Kovac as FC Bayern Manager
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8432329/Hansi-Flicks-calm-head-simple-approach-turned-Bayern-Municj-superpower.html
The story of Jürgen Klinsmann at Hertha Berlin
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/feb/11/jurgen-klinsmann-resigns-as-hertha-berlin-manager-after-10-weeks
What can we learn about Human Risk from industries, like aviation, where the consequences of errors are matters of life & death.
That's a question my guest this time, Andrew Blackie, is more than qualified to answer. He's an independent Safety and Human Factors consultant at Abris Consulting Ltd (http://www.abris.co.uk/).
Abris takes aviation safety investigation techniques and applies them to help build operational excellence in the wider safety critical community. Andrew was a Senior Inspector (Operations) at the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch conducting almost 50 major field investigations, numerous minor investigations and acting as the United Kingdom state representative on investigations conducted by foreign states.
With 20 years of aviation experience, Andrew has commercially operated types as varied as the DC-3, the Lockheed Electra and the Citation II for a Formula 1 racing team. He joined the AAIB from DHL Air where he had been a Captain and CRMi on the Boeing 757.
Andrew has a Masters degree in "Safety and Accident Investigation" and is accredited by the European Association for Aviation Psychology as a Human Factors Specialist.
So super well qualified!
In our discussion, we explore some fo the principles used in Aviation and how they can be applied in other scenarios. Plus, learn why recent incidents like this (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-hangar-foam-covered-discharge-los-angeles-lax-delta-a9427606.html) are far more severe than they might look.
During our discussion, Andrew referenced a research paper by Clewley & Nixon which you'll find here: https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1826/14680/Understanding_pilot_response_to_flight_safety-2019.pdf?sequence=4
You can follow Andrew on Twitter at https://twitter.com/BlackieAndrew.
How can we stop people from engaging in anti-social behaviour?
That's not usually a question you'd ask someone from a marketing agency. But it's precisely the kind of problem that Benoît de Fleurian, my guest on this episode, likes helping his clients to solve.
Benoît is the Head of the Behavioural Science for Ogilvy Consulting in Paris. He's worked on campaigns to tackle childhood obesity, gambling and many other social challenges.
I came across Benoît because of this video he produced for Ogilvy's Nudgestock Behavioural Science Festival: https://youtu.be/ORWSq36qFkQ?t=3468
In that, he explored how BeSci can help prevent public urination. The creative way he approached that problem is an excellent example of how BeSci can be used for Compliance purposes. So obviously we talked about that.
We also went on to explore some of the other BeSci projects he's been involved in, including work with the Gates Foundation and on helping children to eat more healthily.
In our discussion, Benoît talks about the movie that helped inspire his interest in BeSci. The French original is called État de Siège (in English State of Siege). You can watch the trailer here: https://bit.ly/2WVoQp0
For more on Benoît's work visit the Ogilvy France website: https://www.ogilvyredconseil.com/eng/leaders/benoit-de-fleurian/
If you liked this episode, I also recommend listening to his Ogilvy colleague Rory Sutherland on an earlier episode of this podcast: kite.link/rory.
In my conclusion, I mention various Human Risk outputs, including:
The Human Risk newsletter: https://human-risk.us18.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=48e65a30c09bfed289b6f25a5&id=a604cc998d
and
The Human Risk YouTube Channel:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7n9Gnti31VU2ZRaG9b0r1g?
How can Behavioural Science help get better healthcare outcomes?
That's the topic I'm exploring with my guest Aline Holzwarth. She's a Behavioral Scientist working in digital healthcare.
Aline is also the founder of Behavior Shop, a consultancy, as well as being a Principal at Dan Ariely's Center for Advanced Hindsight at Duke University.
In our discussion, as well as looking at health more broadly, we also explore what we can learn from COVID-19; how have the techniques being deployed to change people's behaviors worked? And what can we learn from them? Not just for healthcare, but in other fields.
Aline is also a writer for Forbes magazine and we explore that aspect of her career as well.
You can find Aline on Twitter: https://twitter.com/alineholzwarth?
A link to her Forbes articles are here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alineholzwarth/#44964e6c797f
What is Privilege? It's a word that's being used very frequently, but what is it, why is it undesirable and what can we do about it? All questions that my guest on this episode, Grace Lordan, helps me answer. We also explore Cognitive Diversity: what is it and why does it matter?
Grace is an Associate Professor in Behavioural Science at the London School of Economics and Political Science. Hger research is focused on understanding why some individuals succeed over others because of factors beyond their control. In this regard, she has expertise on the effects of unconscious bias, discrimination and technology changes. Grace is also interested in using the techniques of behavioural science to design interventions for firms to promote good conduct, diversity and inclusion and curb biases that creep into high stakes decision making.
She was my guest on a previous episode where we discussed Diversity: https://www.spreaker.com/episode/28887361
You can read more about Grace's work here: http://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/People/Dr-Grace-Lordan
What happens when a global organization has policies & procedures that clash with local customs & norms? The answer is that you risk non-compliance. Which is where Cultural Compliance comes in and it's the topic of my conversation with my guest Michael Kuckein.
Michael is a Compliance Officer working for a global firm and based in Istanbul, Turkey. His experience representing a Western company in a culture where the norms are somewhat different, reveals much about the challenges of ensuring consistency across a global organisation.
Michael has some really innovative ideas about how to manage this challenge; it's a discussion that's relevant to anyone operating in a global sphere.
On this episode, I speak to Matt Edwards an expert in marketing. Matt has over 25 years of experience in the industry, having begun his career as a graduate at Saatchi & Saatchi and then becoming CEO of Creative Agency WCRS. He now advises clients on getting a better return for their marketing investment.
Matt's website is https://mattedwardsconsulting.com/ and you can find him here on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattedwardsconsulting/
Very often, when we're trying to solve a problem, we can find the answer in a previous one. So as we try to get people to wear masks to prevent the spread of COVID, what might we learn from the techniques used to prevent the spread of HIV?
On this episode, I'm speaking to Dr Jill McDevitt who is a sexologist. She has three degrees in human sexology so is well qualified to help explore what is an unusual topic, but highly relevant ot the podcast. As the subject matter covers adult themes, listener discretion is advised.
Jill came to my attention because of this post on Facebook in which she compared the challenges of getting people to wear masks with the campaign to get people to practise safer sex: https://bit.ly/3fdOkVG
That link is also where you'll find the picture of Jill wearing a particular mask that I also reference on the show.
It's a perfect Human Risk case study and I wanted to know more. In this episode, we talk about Jill's career as a sexologist and then go through her list of learnings. Not only was it a lot of fun to record, but its a very 2020 episode!
You can find out more about Jill's work from her website: https://www.thesexologist.org/
She's also on Twitter: https://twitter.com/sexologistjill
On this episode, I speak with Professor Anu Bradford of Columbia Law School about the subject of her new book, The Brussels Effect. This is the idea that the EU wields far more influence on global affairs than might first seem the case.
In our discussion, we talk about how this happens, why it isn't obvious to people and what it means for all of us; whether you're living in Brexited Britain or in a country that seems so distant from the EU, that they can't possibly be influencing your life. Or can they? Spoiler alert: they really can. We also look at whether that's intended.
We then explore her new area of research, regulating the Internet.
If you're thinking, this doesn't sound much like a Human Risk topic, think again. This is about how our perception of something (in this case the influence of the EU) can be completely wrong. Often when we make poor decisions, it is because we've misunderstood what's going on.
You can find out more about Anu's research here: https://www.law.columbia.edu/faculty/anu-bradford and explore her book here: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-brussels-effect-9780190088583?cc=gb⟨=en&
On this episode, I speak to Dr Sarah Eaton, an Assistant Professor at the Werklund School of Education at the University of Calgary. She specialises in educational leadership, academic integrity, language learning and educational technology.
In our discussion, we talk about ethical issues that include Exam Cheating, Research Ethics and how these are being impacted by COVID-19. Whether you're in education, have kids in it or your last exam was many years ago, this is a fascinating exploration of the challenges facing a sector that is critical in society.
Sarah's webpage with links to her research is here: https://werklund.ucalgary.ca/sarah-eaton
Have you ever found yourself 'on fire' — not literally (I hope!) — but in terms of being on good form? On this episode, I speak to Ben Cohen, the author of "The Hot Hand: The Mystery and Science of Streaks". Ben is a sports reporter for the Wall St Journal, who was inspired by a basketball game, to explore a phenomenon that is well understood in the sport.
In our discussion, we talk about the incident that got Ben interested in the phenomenon and the other cases of it that he explores in his book. We also look at the broader psychology of sport and what we can learn from it. And we explore one of Ben's reports that has absolutely nothing to do with sport.
To find out more about Ben's book: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062820723/the-hot-hand/
The article we refer to in our discussion: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-joys-of-watching-a-bridge-shave-the-tops-off-trucks-1452045185
On this episode, I'm speaking to Gerald Ashley who specialises in Business Risk and Decision Making. His work concentrates on trying to understand decision making, risk-taking and human behaviour, in the face of uncertainty.
“In the slippery world of Risk, Uncertainty, Change and Complexity –hard and fast rules can be rare, and sometimes a trap.” as he puts it.
Prior to concentrating on decision making analysis, Gerald had a 25-year career in international finance, having worked for Baring Brothers in London and Hong Kong, and the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland. He remains involved in finance as an independent non-exec director of the London based fund managers Equitile (www.equitile.com)
Gerald is Managing Director of St. Mawgan & Co (www.stmawgan.com) which he co-founded in 2001, a London based consultancy specialising in risk management, strategy consulting, and behavioural finance modelling in business decision making and risk-taking.
He is also a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, and a Visiting Fellow at Newcastle Business School. His strong interest in financial history has also led him to become an interviewer for an Oral History Project about The City and finance. ( www.centreforfinancialhistory.org/oral-histories/)
You can find Gerald's blog here: www.geraldashley.blog
and his website here: www.geraldashley.com
In our discussion, he refers to a book by Paul Ormerod (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Positive-Linking-Networks-Revolutionise-World/dp/057127921X) and also mentions Frank Knight & Knightian Uncertainty which you can read more about here: http://news.mit.edu/2010/explained-knightian-0602
Gerald has written three books:
Two Speed World - https://www.harriman-house.com/two-speed-world
The Tangled World, a mini e-book that built on Two Speed World - https://www.harriman-house.com/the-tangled-world
Financial Speculation, a markets book about behavioural finance - https://www.harriman-house.com/financial-speculation
You can see Gerald present at Nudgestock, a BeSci festival here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NjSHZe1tRM
How can Behavioural Science help with design? On this episode, I speak with Dr Amy Bucher who is the VP of Behavior Change Design at Mad*Pow, a purpose–driven strategic design agency in Boston She's the author of a new book called Engaged: Designing for Behavior Change 👉 https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/engaged-designing-for-behavior-change/
Amy crafts engaging and motivating experiences that help people change behaviors that contribute to physical, mental, and financial health and well–being. This involves planning and conducting research and translating insights into strategy and requirements for products and end–to–end experiences spanning digital and real–world components. Previously, Amy worked on behavior change products in–house at CVS Health, Johnson & Johnson, and HealthMedia, and has prior healthcare industry agency experience working for Big Communica¬tions on an innovation team. Amy received her A.B. from Harvard University, and her M.A. and Ph.D. in organizational psychology from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. Amy tweets at @amybphd and when she's not spending her writing energy on a book, blogs at amybphd.com.
In our discussion, we explore how she got into BeSci and her thoughts on how we can change people's behavior.
On this, the 50th episode of the podcast, I'm speaking with Professor Charles Spence who heads the Crossmodal Research Laboratory at Oxford University.
He is interested in how people perceive the world around them. In particular, how our brains manage to process the information from each of our different senses (such as smell, taste, sight, hearing, and touch) to form the extraordinarily rich multisensory experiences that fill our daily lives.
In our discussion, we explore how the way our food and drink is presented to us, impacts the way it tastes. I first learned of Charles' work while reading this research on wine (https://cognitiveresearchjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s41235-020-00225-6) and we explore this in our discussion.
We also touch on a range of other fascinating issues.
This episode is most definitely best enjoyed with a glass of wine in hand.
For more on the Crossmodal Laboratory and its research, visit their website: https://www.psy.ox.ac.uk/research/crossmodal-research-laboratory
On this episode, I speak with Dr. Nick Hobson of The Behaviorist. Not only does he hold a PhD in Behavioral Science, but he's also the host of a wonderful podcast. In our discussion, we explore (to paraphrase the name of his podcast) a load of BS.
Nick's website - https://www.behaviorist.biz/
His podcast - https://www.behaviorist.biz/bspodcast
On this episode, I speak with Melina Palmer, host of The Brainy Business podcast.
Melina uses Behavioural Science to help everyone from global corporations to entrepreneurs understand the psychology of why people buy, unlocking the secrets of small changes that make a big difference via her podcast, public speaking, and column on Inc.com. She specialises in messaging, branding, advertisements, pricing and products that are more “brain-friendly".
The Brainy Business Website - https://www.thebrainybusiness.com
The Brainy Business Podcast - https://thebrainybusiness.com/podcast/
Melina's articles on Inc.com - https://www.inc.com/author/melina-palmer
On this episode, I speak with Florentin Blanc who is a Senior Policy Analyst at the OECD. In his work, he explores the effectiveness of regulation. Recently he has been looking at how different countries have responded to COVID-19 and in our discussion, we look at what has worked well and what hasn't. Not only is this of interest to each of us as citizens, but it is also helpful from a Human Risk perspective, as we can learn from what works (and doesn't) in this context and look to deploy the findings in other contexts.
You can read two of Florentin's most recent papers on this here: https://oecdonthelevel.com/2020/05/12/enforcing-social-distancing-assessing-what-works-and-what-doesnt/
https://read.oecd-ilibrary.org/view/?ref=131_131923-jisarlbai9&title=Regulatory-Quality-and-COVID-19-Managing-the-Risk-sand-Supporting-the-Recovery
This episode is a cross-cast of Episode 10 of the Breaking The Fever Podcast.
It features JS Nelson, Associate Professor of Law at Villanova University, Pennsylvania who speaks about her work on surveillance, management culture, and compliance. The workplace has seen a striking acceleration of surveillance-led management over the past several years, and the pandemic has given these efforts more momentum. Nelson described why surveillance can often be counterproductive to effective organizational culture, human agency, and human rights, defending the imperative to resist unnecessary surveillance.
My thanks to Jerome Tagger & Alison Taylor, the hosts of Breaking The Fever for allowing me to share this episode with you.
To subscribe to Breaking The Fever, search for Breaking The Fever on your podcast platform of choice or visit the podcast website: https://www.spreaker.com/show/breaking-the-fever
For more on the webinars, join the LinkedIn Group: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12383430/
You can also follow them on Twitter: https://twitter.com/breaking_fever
In this episode I speak to Dr. Grace Lordan who is an Associate Professor in behavioural science at the London School of Economics. She is an economist by background, and her research is focused on understanding why some individuals succeed over others because of factors beyond their control. In this regard, she has expertise on the effects of unconscious bias, discrimination and technology changes. Grace is also interested in using the techniques of behavioural science to design interventions for firms to promote good conduct, diversity and inclusion and curb biases that creep into high stakes decision making.
For more on Inclusion In The City - http://www.lse.ac.uk/lse-player?id=4852
And for the report on Virtual Inclusion - http://www.lse.ac.uk/PBS/Research/tii/virtual-inclusion-in-the-city
What can a comedian, travel writer and hidden camera TV star teach us about human risk? A lot. On this episode, I speak to comedian and travel writer Dom Joly to gain his insights. We explore the psychology of hidden camera television, the behavioural aspects of travelling and look at the dynamics of satire in the current environment.
You can find more information about Dom and his work on his website www.domjoly.tv and do follow him on Twitter (https://twitter.com/domjoly) & Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/realdomjoly). Details of his Trigger Happy TV watchalong are shared on his social media feeds.
On the show we refer to:
- Trigger Happy TV (https://domjoly.tv/dvd/).
- Dom's books including The Dark Tourist & The Hezbollah Hiking Club (https://domjoly.tv/books/)
- His Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5Ed4tzUWK1XtvDHT4n9C8D?si=F0HURGKQQ1mBPYsXp3y6Uw
We also mention Matt Lucas' rendition of a speech by UK PM Boris Johnson (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt-lucas-video-mocking-boris-johnsons-speech-to-the-nation-goes-viral-11986438) and Sarah Cooper who does something similar for Donald Trump (https://twitter.com/sarahcpr)
On this episode, I speak with Behavioural Science (BeSci) guru and Advertising expert Rory Sutherland. He's the Vice Chairman of Ogilvy and the founder of its BeSci practice. He's also a prolific thought-leader on the subject. It might seem surprising to have an Ad Man talking about Compliance, but as you'll discover, he's got some highly relevant (and entertaining) insights!
On the podcast, we mention:
Nudgestock, the Ogilvy BeSci festival on 12th June - www.nudgestock.co.uk
Rory's book 'Alchemy' - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/110/1108430/alchemy/9780753556504.html
You can see his TED Talks here: https://www.ted.com/speakers/rory_sutherland?language=en
On this episode, I speak with Professor Benjamin van Rooij who specialises in exploring the impact Laws have on Human Behaviour. He's recently been doing some research into the impact of COVID regulations in a number of jurisdictions. We discuss what he's discovered thus far and what he thinks the future of Compliance under COVID could look like. He also highlights the factors that determine whether or not people are compliant and what governments can do to make things more effective. This is an incredibly timely, highly informative episode on a topic I'm sure we'll be returning to.
Some of the research Benjamin refers to in the show:
Policing Pollution: Regulating the Chemical Industry: https://crg.aic.gov.au/reports/8-92.pdf
Strangers In Their Own Land: https://thenewpress.com/books/strangers-their-own-land
His article for The Hill on Social Distancing: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/495287-until-theres-a-cure-social-distancing-will-have-to-continue
His article on Lockdown: https://theconversation.com/how-to-keep-up-social-distancing-after-lockdown-138370
Finally a link to his website: https://www.uva.nl/profiel/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html?cb
You can also find him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/benfuzi
Why is it that we behave differently in groups to the way we behave individually? In particular, why do so many people become bystanders when they see things they could intervene to prevent?
On this episode, I speak with Professor Catherine Sanderson about her new book on The Bystander Effect. You can find links to it on her website at www.sandersonspeaks.com
Catherine is the Manwell Family Professor in Life Sciences at Amherst College in Massachusetts.
You can read more about her work on her faculty page: https://www.amherst.edu/people/facstaff/casanderson
How can Behavioural Science help business? On this episode, I speka with Richard Chataway who is a Behavioural Science practitioner that has recently published a book called "The Behaviour Business".
In it, he explores how businesses can use Behavioural Science to help them meet their business objectives more effectively. As he says "if you're in business, you are in the business of behaviour". On the podcast, we talk about how Richard came to be interested in Behavioural Science and explore some of the themes he covers in the book,
You can find out more about the Behaviour Business and associated podcast here: https://harriman-house.com/behaviourbusiness
How can we manage in a world that is uncertain?
In this episode, I speak with Margaret Heffernan, the author of a timely new book called "Uncharted: How to Map the Future Together". In it, she explores the ways in which we naturally seek certainty, yet we know from experience that the world is far from certain.
By adopting approaches that are outlined in teh book, we can embrace uncertainty and be more successful. On the podcast, we explore the book and the ideas behind it.
You can firm out more about the book here: https://www.mheffernan.com/book-uncharted.php
For more on Margaret, visit her website: www.mheffernan.com
This episode is the audio recording of a webinar I co-hosted with BeSci and Change expert Koen Smets. In it, we discussed Change Under COVID and the Behavioural Dynamics that entails.
You can find more from Koen on his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/koenfucius
As well as on Medium: https://medium.com/@koenfucius
The audio quality of this episode is lower than usual, due to the limitations of Zoom. As ever, I hope high quality content, makes up for lower quality audio.
This episode is a recording of a webinar I did with Dr Roger Miles on "Conduct & Culture under COVID".
In our discussion, Roger and I explore what changes, if any, there have been during Coronatime to expectations and norms of what constitutes “good behaviour”.
Many industries are now regulated by Behavioural or Conduct regulators, who have views on what they expect from their regulatees. Equally, we’re seeing a shift in societal expectations as to what the general public expects from companies; either the one they work for, or from whom they buy products.
We explore what that means and how we, both companies and individuals, can best respond to the changing dynamics.
As ever with the webinar recordings, the quality isn’t as high because of the limitations of Zoom, so apologies for that. But hopefully, lower-quality audio is compensated for by high-quality content.
To find out more about Human Risk webinars, subscribe to the Human Risk newsletter at www.human-risk.com or follow me on social media (@humanriskblog on Twitter).
How has COVID impacted leadership and behaviour in business? On this episode, I speak with Professor Dr. Niels Van Quaquebeke. Niels is Professor of Leadership and Organizational Behavior at the Kühne Logistics University in Hamburg. He is additionally affiliated (part-time) with the University of Exeter as a Distinguished Research Professor.I've known him for a number of years, having first met when he taught me on a leadership course.
Niels and I discuss how COVID19 is impacting leadership on a national and organizational level. We also explore some ways we can each, as individuals, cope with COVID19 and make ourselves more robust and future-proof.
Not only is he incredibly insightful, but he's also a lot of fun.
For more on Niels, visit the KLU website: https://www.the-klu.org/faculty-research/resident-faculty/niels-van-quaquebeke/
For corporate enquiries including training see http://www.respicere.de/
Niels is also an avid user of social media and I recommend following him:
Twitter - @NielsQuaquebeke - https://twitter.com/NielsQuaquebeke
Instagram - @NielsVanQuaquebeke - https://www.instagram.com/nielsvanquaquebeke/
Why do people who work in banks engage in bad behaviour? That's the question my guest on this episode, Professor Elizabeth Sheedy of Macquarie University in Sydney, specialises in researching. She is a risk management expert based in the Department of Applied Finance and since 2012 her research focus has been on Risk Governance, Culture and Remuneration in Financial Institutions. So she's ideally placed to explore why there appears to be such an issue with behaviour in Financial Services. In our discussion, we talk about why bad behaviour occurs and what we can do to mitigate it. What are the factors that drive people to engage in it? Would it make a difference if the industry were more diverse?
You'll find links to her research below.
For more on Human Risk, including the Newsletter and Video Channel. visit www.human-risk.com.
This major study of risk culture in Australian and Canadian banks, highlights the issue of ‘avoidance’ culture in predicting poor behaviour: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/corg.12200
How both remuneration and culture predict compliance behaviour: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378426619301864
What is the potential of compensation deferrals to temper bad behaviour? Will people gravitate towards the pay structures they prefer? Will the nature of the workforce change if deferrals are introduced? https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3535347
This research explores the "Lehman Sisters" hypothesis, which posited that had Lehman Brothers been run by women, that things might have turned out differently. The research suggests the opposite; it turns out senior females in banks are pretty similar to their male counterparts.: https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/MF-11-2017-0465/full/html?casa_token=Sw-pGQTHpz4AAAAA:fu38Nld8uqZWES3N5koN1byos6t44SKVRrURunfUD9DWgLIHZlZpBqVDSMfR7eGbS1_-dpG3jmim_gVGRYuyo7qI1r1MQw1b0YoHvloXIVh4eZVllUvp
On this episode, I speak to David Enrich, the New York Times Financial Editor. He's the author of a new book called Dark Towers: Deutsche Bank, Donald Trump, and an Epic Trail of Destruction.
We discuss the Human Risk aspects of the story and explore some of the dynamics that led to an extraordinary story.
For more on Dark Towers: https://www.harpercollins.com/9780062878816/dark-towers/
This episode is the audio recording from a webinar I co-hosted with Tom Hardin on "Decision-Making under Uncertainty". The video version is available for viewing on the Human Risk YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/SS8GuNSErrA
Details of future Human Risk webinars will be released on Social Media and via the Human Risk Newsletter: https://human-risk.com/newsletter-archive/
For more about Tom, who also featured in Episode 2 of this podcast, visit https://tipperx.com/
To discuss any of the issues raised in the episode, do get in touch.
On this episode, I speak to Professor Robert Frank, the H. J. Louis Professor of Management and Professor of Economics at Cornell University's Johnson Graduate School of Management. In his new book Under The Influence, he explores how our environments encourage smoking, bullying, tax cheating, sexual predation, problem drinking, and wasteful energy use. By understanding how our behaviour is contagious, we can find ways to solve some of the biggest issues facing our society. For more on Robert's book: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691193083/under-the-influence
Robert on Twitter: https://twitter.com/econnaturalist
Robert's Faculty Page: https://www.johnson.cornell.edu/faculty-research/faculty/rhf3/
How can Behavioural Science help museums to encourage more visitors?
In this episode, I speak to Professor Tom Schössler who is the Managing Director of the Weserburg Museum of International Contemporary Art. For links to references I made during the show see the end of these notes.
Tom was responsible for conducting an interesting Behavioural Science experiment to see how a change in the pricing structure, impacted visitor numbers and perception of his museum. For more on that: https://www.artsprofessional.co.uk/magazine/article/what-weve-learned-car-parks-about-boosting-attendance
What Tom had to say about the experiment was really interesting and it highlights a real challenge of Behavioural Science; to work out whether something works, you need to experiment. And that takes courage. The lessons from this are fascinating.
What the experiment illustrates is the power of behavioural interventions; if we want to change behaviour, then changing people's perceptions is a powerful tool to do that. The lessons we can learn from this don't just apply to Museums. They also apply to other fields like Risk, Compliance and HR.
We recorded this before the Coronavirus lockdown, but obviously the challenge of getting visitors through the door once the crisis is over is going to be even more acute than before.
As this series progresses, I’m looking to bring you different voices you won’t have heard before, alongside academics and Behavioural Science practitioners. A museum director fits that bill perfectly.
For more on the Museum visit their website: https://weserburg.de/en/visit/
The local items I mentioned in my introduction are:
Werder Bremen football club: https://www.werder.de/en
Brauerei Beck: https://becks.de/
The Town Musicians of Bremen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Musicians_of_Bremen
How will companies be held to account for their actions under COVID?
On this episode, I speak with Pooj Morjaria, the founder of www.didtheyhelp.com, a website that tracks the good and bad things that companies and public figures are doing during the Coronavirus.
We talk about the genesis of the website, how it is populated and some of the challenges he faces in running it. We also explore what the Ethical challenges of recording other people's ethical decision-making.
For more on "Did They Help" visit the website at www.didtheyhelp.com
You can also find them on Twitter: https://twitter.com/didtheyhelp
On this episode, I speak with Steve Martin and Joe Marks, the authors of a book called Messengers: Who We Listen To, Who We Don't and Why.
For more on the book, to see videos of key concepts it contains and to take a test to see what kind of Messenger you are, visit the website: https://www.messengersthebook.com/
On the show, we talk about Robert Cialdini. You can find out more about him here: https://www.influenceatwork.com/
This episode is the audio recording from a webinar I co-hosted with Ruth Steinholtz on "Managing Ethics in a Disrupted World".
Our aim in hosting it was to highlight the fact that in the current environment, ethical issues are more likely to arise. Many decisions currently being made, can have ethical consequences that are not immediately obvious in the short-term. We explore why this is the case and what individuals and organisations can do about improving the likelihood of making better ethical decisions.
For more about Ruth, who also featured in Episode 7 of this podcast, visit https://aretework.com/
To discuss any of the issues raised in the episode, do get in touch.
What do you do when you think your government isn't doing enough to protect you from the risk of COVID-19?
On this episode, I speak to Eggsy, a 22-year-old graphic design student. She noticed that her friends weren't following the UK Government advice on Social Distancing to prevent the spread of Coronavirus and wanted to do something. That something was the creation of a cartoon that explained the rationale behind the advice. The cartoon went viral.
You can see it for yourself here: https://youtu.be/6BhA9Kxd0mE
The techniques she deploys in the video are extremely engaging and illustrate an intuitive understanding of Behavioural Science. I wanted to understand what inspired Eggsy to produce the video, what the ideas behind the content were and to find out about what happened after she released it. We discussed all of those things...and a host of other things I wasn't expecting to talk about, but which were equally inspiring.
You can see more of Eggsy's work on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfLYB890iZh-0ECMMZ0y56A) and Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/itsjusteggsy/).
For more on The Adulthood Academy, Eggsy's new project, which we discuss on the episode, visit https://www.instagram.com/theadulthoodacademy/ or http://www.theadulthoodacademy.com/
This episode of the Human Risk podcast isn't really an episode of the Human Risk podcast. It's the very first episode of a new podcast called "Behind The Spine". But it is about Human Risk. Mark Heywood, who featured on episode 19 of the Human Risk podcast, is the host of a show targeted at writers and helps them find learning opportunities in the most unlikely of places.
One of the main ways we make sense of the world around us is through stories. Whether that’s children’s fairytales that help shape our perspective on the world or the stories we tell ourselves and others to justify the decisions we make. We’re not short of examples of politicians and others using creative storytelling to justify their actions.
So if we can better understand stories, we can better understand behaviour. On this first episode, you'll be able to hear a familiar voice talking about Human Risk.
For more on Behind The Spine, visit the podcast website: https://bit.ly/2XB9as5.
You can subscribe to Behind The Spine on all the usual podcast platforms.
What do we mean by Ethics & why does it matter?
On this episode, I speak with Alison Taylor who is the Executive Director of Ethical Systems, a collaboration based at NYU Stern School of Business. She works on challenges at the intersection of corporate integrity, risk and responsibility.
You can follow Alison on Twitter: https://twitter.com/FollowAlisonT
Alison is also a senior adviser to BSR (https://www.bsr.org/) a global nonprofit business network and consultancy dedicated to sustainability.
We explore how the virus is bringing ethical questions to the fore and look at how companies and individuals try to manage this complicated subject.
We began the episode by talking about Alison’s background and how she came to be interested in the subject of ethics.
On this episode I speak to Jez Groom and April Vellacott, the authors of a new BeSci book called "Ripple". Jez and April talk about their journeys in BeSci, provide some fascinating insights from their book and we finish with a discussion about the Behavioural aspects of teh Coronavirus.
Ripple is published by Harriman House and is available from all good booksellers. To read more about the book, you can visit the dedicated microsite: https://www.cowryconsulting.com/ripple-book
Jez and April work for Cowry, a BeSci Consulting Firm (www.cowryconsulting.com)
You can read more about them here:
https://www.cowryconsulting.com/consultants/jez-groom
https://www.cowryconsulting.com/consultants/april-vellacott
On this episode, I speak with Alix Hope who is a Creative Strategist for design agency Bompas & Parr. They are Taste Architects who specialise, amongst other things, in immersive events.
Given the changes the Coronavirus has brought on our lifestyles and the new behaviours we are being required to adapt, Bompass & Parr recently released a report called Fluid Landscapes. This explores what is happening and what might happen as we shift perspectives from the freely flowing behaviours of a world without Coronavirus, to a world that has forcibly embraced fresh routines .
Alix is the report's author and joins me to talk about it and what they are predicting for the new world we'll be living in.
You can read more about Bompas & Parr on their website: www.bompasandparr..com
Details of the Creative Landscapes launch event on 8th April at 1600 UK time are available on their Instagram feed: https://www.instagram.com/p/B-hngM-ngNi/.
You can follow them there: @bompasandparr
This episode is a Crosscast with the All Things Risk podcast.
A Crosscast is where two podcasters cone together to release a joint episode. Here I combine with Ben Cattaneo to create the All Things Human Risk podcast.
You can learn more about Ben on Episode 20 of the Human Risk podcast.
In our discussion we talk about how the changes forced on us by the Coronavirus are impacting us, what that means from a behavioural perspective and what we can do to cope with the changes.
Some of the things we discuss on the show:
Atul Gawande Checklist Manifesto
Man in plague mask on BBC
NYTimes Front Page
HBR article on grief
Conspiracy theories and coronavirus
You’ll find the All Things Risk podcast here: www.allthingsrisk.co.uk
On this episode, I am joined again by Ricardo Pellafone to discuss how Risk & Compliance (R&C) professionals can think about responding to the challenges posed by the Coronavirus. As the ways in which we work are changing drastically, how can and should R&C respond? What should their key priorities be and what should they avoid doing? We discuss this and a whole host more.
Ricardo is the founder of The Broadcat (www.thebroadcat.com) a Compliance Design Company.
In this episode, I speak with Ben Cattaneo. Ben is a risk professional who is also the host of the All Things Risk podcast.
We ended up having a rather longer than planned conversation, so I've split it up into several parts. In this first part, we begin by talking about Ben's career in Risk. We then explore how our perception of risk is often flawed and look at ways that organisations can think differently about risk management.
You can find out more about the topics we discussed as follows:
The All Things Risk podcast: http://www.allthingsrisk.co.uk/
"Zen Mind, Beginners Mind" by Shunryu Suzuki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_Mind,_Beginner%27s_Mind
"Black Swan" by Nassim Taleb:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
Bike Shedding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
"Range" by David Epstein:
https://davidepstein.com/the-range/
In this episode, I speak to Mark Heywood. He's a former colleague and good friend of mine, who specialises in bridging the gap between Creatives and the Business World. In our conversation we explore what the Coronavirus means for the Entertainment Industry; both its business model and the kind of content it will produce as a result. To find out more about Mark and his work you can visit his website: www.inkjockey.co.uk or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markheywoodinkjockey/
I take the opportunity to get some advice from Mark on recommended quarantine viewing and reading. He suggests three things:
-
The Vietnam War by Ken Burns & Lynn Novick on Netflix https://www.netflix.com/title/80997770
Be warned this is a serious time commitment, but as Mark explains, it'll change the way you think of the dynamics of that situation. And it is relevant to the way in which governments and other authorities communicate with us today. -
The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins:
You can follow this recommendation either in written format, where it forms a trilogy of novels (with the next part of the series due out in May this year):https://www.songbirdsandsnakes.com/
Or you can watch this series of four movies: https://www.lionsgate.com/franchises/the-hunger-games.
- I am Legend by Richard Matheson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(novel)
As novels (with the next part of the series on release in May 2020): https://www.songbirdsandsnakes.com/
As a series of four movies: https://www.lionsgate.com/franchises/the-hunger-games
- I am Legend by Richard Matheson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(novel)
Mark's third recommendation is this novel which has been made into a number of movies, including one starring Will Smith (which Mark specifically suggested we don't watch).
In this impromptu episode, Richard Bistrong, Ruth Steinholtz and I discuss the Ethics of holding an in-person event at the time of a pandemic. The discussion arose because the three of us were due to attend an Ethics Conference together next month. That Conference has now been switched to become a virtual one. This led us to think about the challlenges of running ethical, and other) events at a time like the present.
To find out more about Richard and his work see www.richardbistrong.com For more on Ruth visit her website www.aretework.com.
Why is there so much management bullshit used in the workplace? On this episode, I speak with Professor Ian McCarthy who is the W.J. VanDusen Associate Professor of Innovation and Operations Management at the SFU Beedie School of Business.
Ian recently co-authored a piece of research entitled "Confronting indifference toward truth: Dealing with workplace bullshit" and on the podcast, I talk to him about the genesis of the idea and the research findings. And he introduces the CRAP framework that he and his co-authors developed to help us all identify and respond to the challenges of Workplace Bullshit. We also briefly touch on Ian's other research into Social Media and Deep Fakes.
To read a copy of the research click here: https://lnkd.in/gVq2Kuv
You can also support the work being undertaken by Ian and his colleagues by completing the Workplace Bullshit survey here: https://sfulsg.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1XGmd6FDZfjwjzf
For more on Ian visit his LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianmccarthy1/ or his faculty page: https://beedie.sfu.ca/profiles/IanMcCarthy
In this episode, I speak with Richard Bistrong, the CEO of Frontline Anti-Bribery. He specialises in helping organisations prevent bribery and corruption, as well as in enhancing the effectiveness of their Compliance programmes. You can find more out about Richard on his website: https://richardbistrong.com/ as well as on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardbistrong/) and Twitter (https://twitter.com/RichardBistrong).
The episode is also an experiment. I've split my conversation with Richard up into smaller episodes, so it is only 20 minutes rather than the usual longer format. Feedback on this welcome.
Further episodes featuring Richard will follow in due course...
On this episode of the Human Risk podcast, I speak to Luca Dellanna about COVID-19. He explains why he thinks governments aren't doing nearly enough to contain the spread of the virus. We also explore the work that he does within organisations.
On the podcast, Luca mentions Alchemy by Rory Sutherland. He also discusses his own books which you can find, together with more details about his work at https://www.luca-dellanna.com/
You'll also find him on Twitter at @dellannaluca
What can we learn about managing risk from famous moments & people from history?
In this episode, I speak with Jacinthe Galpin who is both a podcaster and an experienced risk professional. Jacinthe is the host of the Risktory podcast which looks at History through the lens of Risk. On the show, we explore the podcast, how she came up with the idea and what she's learned from doing over 100 episodes of the show.
In addition, we talk Risk Management and what Jacinthe has learned from her time in the discipline. As an Australian who has moved to the US, she also has some fascinating insights into the differences between the two cultures.
You'll find the Risktory podcast wherever you get your quality audio content, as well as here: https://www.spreaker.com/show/risktory
To find Jacinthe, you can connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacintheagalpin/
In this episode, co-host Tom Hardin and I talk about more stories from the news that fascinated us from a Human Risk perspective. We begin by talking about the Luanda Leaks, then explore the recent scandals involving the Saracens Rugby Team in the UK and the Houston Astros Baseball Team in the US. Finally, we recommend a book each:
Tom's is How Will You Measure Your Life by Clayton Christensen
Mine is 21 Lessons For The 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari
In this episode, I speak to Alex Sidorenko, the founder of Risk Academy. When it comes to thinking innovatively about risk, Alex has some fascinating thoughts, that we can deploy in the management of Human Risk.
The episode was recorded in 2019, prior to the launch of Risk Awareness Week. Scheduled over a week (as the name implies!) this was an online conference that brought risk experts from a range of disciplines together. I'm delighted to report it'll be back in 2020 and you can find more details at 2020.riskawarenessweek.com
During our discussion, Alex refers to a video in which he compares traditional Risk Management to Astrology. You'll find it on the Risk Academy YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCog9jkDZdiRps2w27MZ5Azg
To find out more about Alex, visit https://riskacademy.blog/blog/ or find him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexsidorenko/
In this episode, I welcome two of my favourite podcasters onto the show. Tim Houlihan and Kurt Nelson are the hosts of the fabulous Behavioral Grooves podcast, which you'll find wherever you get your quality audio content. And also right here: https://behavioralgrooves.com/
Not only are they accomplished BeSci podcasters, with some wonderful stories to tell about their show, but they're also experienced BeSci practitioners in their own right.
Tim founded a consultancy in applied behavioral sciences built on more than a dozen years of working with academic partners from Carnegie Mellon, Duke, Columbia, Quinnipiac, Monmouth, University of Houston, and the University of St. Thomas to name a few.
Kurt earned his doctorate in industrial and organizational psychology and founded his own consultancy more than 20 years ago to focus on the application of behavioral science in corporate settings. His clients are a who’s who of Fortune 500 companies
In this wide-ranging discussion, we talk about HR (Human Resources, rather than Human Risk!) and explore how organisations can improve the way they manage human capital and therefore reduce Human Risk. We end the show with joint commitments: mine was to release this epsiode before the end of January. To find out what theirs was, have a listen!
To contact Tim or Kurt you can visit the www.behavioralgrooves.com website or directly using the details below.
Kurt Nelson: @motivationguru or https://www.linkedin.com/in/kurtwnelson/ or kurt@lanterngroup.com
Tim Houlihan: @THoulihan or https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-houlihan-b-e/ or tim@behavioralchemy.com
In this episode, I speak to Kelly Paxton who is a specialist in Pink Collar Crime which is a type of Human Risk. Kelly explains what Pink Collar Crime entails, why it is more significant than we might think and, most importantly, what we can do to mitigate it. On the way, we hear some of the stories of Pink Collar Crime cases she has been involved in investigating.
You can find Kelly on LinkedIn where she posts a regular #FridayFelon https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellypaxton/
Her website is https://pinkcollarcrime.com/ .and you'll find her on Twitter: @pdxcfe
Roger Dooley describes himself as a "Friction Hunter". In this episode, I speak to him about his study of Friction; what I think of as "the things that stop us doing what we want or need to do". We explore why Friction exists, what we can do about removing it and why we might, sometimes, actually want it to be there.
By the end of the episode, you'll be more familiar with what Friction is and, if my experience, is anything to go by, you'll start seeing it everywhere.
To find out more about Roger, including details of his podcast and his excellent book on Friction, visit www.rogerdooley.com
In this extended episode, I'm joined again by co-host Tom Hardin. Together we explore Human Risk related stories we've come across that we think are worth diving into in more detail.
You can hear Tom's story in Episode 2.
Ruth Steinholtz is the founder of AretéWork, a company that advises on how to build sustainable effective ethical cultures in organisations. She was formerly General Counsel of Borealis and has authored a book on Ethical Business Practices with Professor Chris Hodges.
In this episode, we discuss how Ruth came to be interested in the field of ethics from a very young age, how she implemented an ethical culture in her previous work and we explore how companies and regulators can more effectively manage one of the key challenges of the 21st century.
You can find out more about Ruth on her website: https://aretework.com/
The book that she co-wrote with Professor Christopher Hodges is called Ethical Business Practice and Regulation. You'll find more details here: https://aretework.com/books/
Dr Roger Miles is an expert in Conduct. In this episode, I explore with him what that means and how he came to specialise in it. Using stories ranging from Reality TV shows, to the 1902 Hanoi Rat Plague, Roger explores how we can think about conduct in simple to understand ways.
You can contact Roger here - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogermiles
In this episode, I'm joined again by co-host Tom Hardin. Together we explore Human Risk related stories we've come across that we think are worth diving into in more detail.
You can hear Tom's story in Episode 2.
In this episode, we look at three stories, conveniently featuring an A, a B and a C!
A is for AirBnB: we look at the room-leasing platform in the light of recent incidents. We also explore what it and other platform-based businesses need to think about in terms of Human Risk Management.
B is for Boeing: we look at the latest developments involving the Seattle-based aeroplane manufacturer and consider what went so wrong.
Finally, C is for Cheating. In the last Human Risk Talk, we explored Marathon Cheating. This time its exam cheating which appears to be gaining greater prevalence. We explore why and look at ways that we can disincentivise people from engaging in it.
We close out the episode with two recommendations. Tom talks about Chernobyl, the HBO TV series and I share my views on a book called The Bank That Lived A Little which tells the story of Barclays Bank.
In this episode, I speak to Ricardo Pellafone, the founder of The Broadcat, a Compliance Design Company. He describes himself as "a startup founder focused on making law accessible to non-lawyers through good design. We take the concept of "compliance training" and turn it into practical, timely reminders that transparently nudge employee behavior in the right direction."
For more on The Broadcat, visit their website: www.thebroadcat.com
To explore The Compliance Design Club visit https://clubhouse.thebroadcat.com/
In this episode, I'm launching a new recurring feature on the podcast.
In these Human Risk Talks, I'll be joined by co-host Tom Hardin and together we'll explore Human Risk related stories we've come across that we think are worth diving into in more detail.
You can hear Tom's story in Episode 2.
To begin, we examine the recent events surrounding WeWork, the provider of office space whose stockmarket listing was cancelled.
We then examine the phenomenon of marathon cheating and what lies behind it.
Finally, we look at some recent Insider Trading cases and explore what motivates people to engage in that activity.
We close out the episode with two recommendations. Tom talks about Lying, a book he's been reading and I share my views on the Netflix drama The Spy.
How does someone become an FBI informant? That's the story my guest Tom Hardin shares with me on this re-recorded episode. Tom and I originally spoke in 2019, but we thought we'd re-record the episode in 2021, to take account of subsequent events.
Tom previously spent much of his career as a hedge fund analyst. In 2009, as part of a cooperation agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice, Tom assisted the U.S. government in understanding how insider trading occurred in the investment management industry. Known as “Tipper X,” Tom became one of the most prolific informants in securities fraud history, helping to build over 20 of the 80+ individual criminal cases in “Operation Perfect Hedge,” a Wall Street house cleaning campaign that morphed into the largest insider trading investigation of a generation. Since resolving his case in 2015, Tom was invited by FBI-NYC to speak to the Complex Financial Crime Unit's rookie agent class in 2016 and is now an international corporate trainer and speaker on conduct risk, compliance and behavioral ethics. He holds a B.S. in Economics from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.
Tom can be contacted at www.tipperx.com.
Resources:
On the podcast. Tom references Napster, a peer to peer music-sharing website that launched in 1999 and was closed down in 2001. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napster
You can follow Tom on Twitter at https://twitter.com/iamtipperx
He is also on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-hardin-0952324/
To see his 1-minute videos, visit his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrBkFwrpqDuTz6mXrmyTzUg
We have laws to protect us from the actions of 'bad' people. But why might writing laws for 'bad' people actually be a bad idea? That's what my guest, Professor Yuval Feldman, asks in his research and helps me explore on this inaugural episode of the podcast.
Might we be better off writing laws for 'good' people, or those who think of themselves as good people? Yes, says Feldman. As he explains “In many many contexts, people do not know that what they do is illegal or immoral, at least not in an objective way” . What works for law, can also work for Compliance.
If you think the law is boring, think again.
Resources:
Yuval Feldman - https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldman
Robert Cooter. - https://www.law.berkeley.edu/our-faculty/faculty-profiles/robert-cooter/
Phil Tetlock - https://www.sas.upenn.edu/tetlock/
Yuval’s Book “The Law of Good People” - https://tinyurl.com/yxczvzrr
Coming soon is The Human Risk podcast, looking at how Behavioural Science can help manage the biggest risk facing most organisations: people!