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Kristen Mynar, a board certified estate planning and probate attorney and partner with Naman, Howell, Smith & Lee in Waco, joins us on today's show. Kristen talks about maximizing your mentors, caring about your clients, and what she looks for when hiring (hint: it's not on a resume!).

Her firm/practice

Offices in Waco, FW, San Antonio, Austin
Most of the attorneys specialize in something, and there isn't much they don't do
Her typical client has high-net worth and a closely held business, so you wind up working with them both on the estate planning and business related issues.
Board certified as soon as she could, five years after starting practice
Law is always changing so always have to stay on top of it; changing administrations can have an impact certainly so watching for whether new laws get passed at the federal level
Current exemptions are at all-time highs but set to expire and be cut in half in 2026.
Waco is a great community; friendly/competent lawyers; way more money here than you would think, and those people keep their money here.
Does a lot of work with partners in the other offices, as well as with clients in the small communities around Waco. Also succession planning for client businesses.
Estate Planning can touch a lot of practice areas

Advice to lawyers in practice

Her grammar was a problem in the beginning! So she got red inked on everything for three years.
She had great mentors and was a sponge. She listened/learned. Did push back when it looked like there was more than one way to do something.
Fortunate to have someone who wanted to teach her how to practice.
Much of her practice is drafting/writing, and she kept making the same mistakes at first. So she made a list of all the mistakes she would typically make, and then before submitting anything to the partners would go over that list to see if she had made any of those mistakes.
Learn to compensate for yourself
Be humble
Take a minute and think about it! See if you can figure it out. The reader should be able to tell that you at least thought through it.
RE: Business development: just be out in the community and make sure people know what you do. Offer to go speak to different groups. Do a good job and care about the client!

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

Not a big believer in resumes.
In interviews, looking for personality. Are you a person that I want to practice with? Personable? Easy to talk with?

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ability to use their brain
What habit has been key to your success: keeping my time every day
Favorite app/productivity tool: N/A - all apps are anti-productive
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: mothering, (low-carb) cooking, lounging
Favorite legal movie: Bowl? The Case for Christ

Thanks again to Kristen Mynar for joining us on today's show!

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Erin Brockovich is an outstanding 2000 film based on a true story about a woman who never gives up, doesn't take no for an answer, and helps get justice for an entire town. Robert and Daniel are joined by special guest Hope Mustakim to break it all down!

Check out Hope's Waco ISD campaign page! https://www.hope4wacoisd.com/

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Spencer Edwards, a shareholder and trial lawyer with The Hudgins Law Firm in Houston, joins us on today's show. Spencer talks about how to conduct yourself in trial, being eager to learn, and demonstrating work ethic in an interview.

His firm/practice

97 Baylor Law grad (25 years of practice)
Catastrophic Injury / Wrongful Death trial lawyer (though hasn't tried one since 2019 due to COVID)
COVID has essentially created a backlog of cases and trials, and that hasn't stopped new cases from coming in
Has a case set for trial March 1st
The shift in the judiciary has made an impact on the practice (R to D in Harris County), which initially meant actual trial lawyers were on the bench which was helpful. But now, there has been a shift in competence, experience, and consistency as well, which creates a different dynamic
More high dollar verdicts in recent years has injected uncertainty on the defense side in valuing cases as well as emboldened plaintiff's lawyers

Advice to lawyers in practice

Remember that you are going to work with/against lawyers/judges again, so don't be a jerk!
Chill
No need to be super aggressive
Only takes one moment to damage your reputation
Throw inside if you must, but don't throw a beanball!
If another attorney does that to you, however, you have to be willing to push back, especially in front of the jury
If rules of procedure/evidence don't apply, then they aren't going to apply, so don't be the only one confined by them
Also have to be prepared for rulings against you, even if they are clearly wrong
Do it with a smile on your face; don't lose your cool; don't try to embarrass the judge; you can get makeup calls!
Keep perspective
You are going to lose cases, even some you should have won (you'll probably win some you should have lost)
Don't let losses devastate you
Exude confidence in the courtroom; act like you feel like you can/should win
Don't be afraid to ask dumb questions / pride is dangerous to a young lawyer
And ask why
Don't make the same mistake twice
If something needs to get done right now, that might not be the best time to push back/challenge/ask why...just do it! Find the right time/context.
The best way to develop business is to do good work; and then watch the way lawyers at your firm develop their business and imitate that
Learn how to talk on the phone! Older partners/clients expect it and are used to it

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

He's not a big resume guy!
At their firm, a couple of younger lawyers review all the resumes and decide who to interview, and so he rarely sees the resumes. Also, law schools vary with their grading scales, so it is hard to compare candidates based on that
Impressed with work history (even in high school and college) that demonstrates work ethic
Important to bring up these things in an interview if you realize it could help you, since these items are likely not on your legal resume

Final Thought

From Professor Matt Dawson's speech to his law school graduating class: "I'm a smart guy, but that's not why I have been successful. I am successful because I have always worked hard. Don't get outworked. Don't let the other side beat you by outworking you." Great trial lawyer advice.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Eager to learn
What habit has been key to your success: Get some sleep
Favorite app/productivity tool: Whiteboard
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Baseball / Astros
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Spencer Edwards for joining us on today's show!

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Dave talks about being known as a trial lawyer, being proactive, and conversational interviews.

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Christian Dennie, a sports lawyer, commercial litigator, and partner at Barlow, Garsek, & Simon in Fort Worth, joins us on today's show. Christian talks about understanding the case, demonstrating grit, and how the new name, image, and likeness legislation is playing out thus far.

His firm/practice

Firm is headquartered in Fort Worth with a Southlake office
Commercial firm (no criminal)
He focuses on sports clients but does a number of things under that umbrella including arbitration
Fort Worth / Tarrant County legal practice
Small town with over 1M people
Plenty of large businesses
Lots of lifers
More local/Texas based firms
Collegial and supportive of one another
New name, image, and likeness NCAA rules and state laws, as well as potential changes to the NCAA constitution are significant issues

Advice to lawyers in practice

Have someone that will take you under their wing and serve as a mentor to you and help you learn/grow
You win lawsuits in the library and not the courtroom
Sometimes the law is not on your side but you need to be creative because things need to change
Can happen in the courtroom with a decision, OR
In a settlement or outside of the courtroom...can be just as good as a decision
Take the case and figure it out
It's not about sitting in your office 18 hours a day to show that you are committed; but it's not about the hours
You are a problem solver
Ideal is to be at a law firm that has enough work that you aren't having to "create time" to meet your billable hour requirements
Daniel recalls former guest Jim Chester's advice to never leave a partner's office without the DDB (deadline / deliverable / budget).
Important for the client to understand what they are asking as well
Formulate a game plan early for how you are going to generate the clients you want
Put yourself around the clients you want, but with the expertise you have even if that is different than what you ultimately want to do
Understand the culture/business/environment of the clients you want to serve

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

Demonstrate the work you have done
How does your work history match what the firm needs
Is there a cultural fit?
If you played sports in college or beyond that stands out to him because of the grit factor
Trial experience, judicial clerkships, real estate deals/closings, employment contract experience all looks good
If you don't have those things, do you have the interest, curiosity, and willingness to transition

Sports Law

Not a lot of large national deals yet
2nd Circuit Court of Appeals / Gatto case
Lots of local/regional deals
Just making sure they comply with state law, because if they don't then they won't comply with NCAA rules
Contract can't extend beyond eligibility and there are multiple places in agreements where perpetual licenses are inserted
Bonuses based on results are not permissible and some of the early contracts had those in there
Schools are starting to get a better grasp of it
Texas' law specifically says you can't use logos/marks which can cause issues
Some schools are trying to figure out how to permit the use
Houston Travis Scott concert
Was there adequate security?
What does the license on the ticket say and do we have an enforceable arbitration clause?
What if you are forced to click a link to go out and read the fine print of the license?
Insurance?
The NCAA recommendations on constitution/bylaw changes is a major issue in college athletics; especially if we see more power pushed down to the conference level

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Ability to roll up the sleeves and get after it; willing to do what it takes; send the fax!
What habit has been key to your success: understanding the client; establishing trust
Favorite app/productivity tool: Twitter
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: sports and family; stand-up paddle boarding
Favorite legal movie: A Time to Kill / My Cousin Vinny
First date of OU/TX in the SEC: 2023

Thanks again to Christian Dennie for joining us on today's show!

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Anne Heaviside, a managing director and legal recruiter with ELR in Houston, joins us on today's show. Anne talks about the lateral legal market, work from home policies, and top tips for candidates.

Her firm and role

ELR Legal is in the Tanglewood area of Houston
Specializes in 2-10 year lawyers in Texas law firms / mostly Houston / mostly Big Law (AmLaw 200)
Got her start practicing law, including at McGlinchy Stafford. She then took over the recruiting role there before stepping out to work as a legal recruiter on the outside

Legal Market Update

2019 was good as was the start of 2020
COVID put everything on hold until about November 2020
November things opened up, especially in the Big Law corporate world (Can you say SPACs?!)
Capital Markets
M&A
Private Equity
Debt Finance
2021 only got hotter
Big signing bonuses ($10k-$50k)
There are not enough corporate associates in Texas for the demand
The need is new work. Clients have more demand from Big Law firms and there aren't enough 3-6 year associates with the necessary skills.
Record number of lateral moves in Houston and Dallas
Plus new Big Law firms opening up in Austin
September hit and those associates have worked between 2000-2800 hours already in 2021 and are no longer taking recruiter calls; they are waiting for their year-end bonus before lateralling at the start of 2022.
Real Estate an Executive Comp/Employee Benefits have gotten hot
Big Law litigation is cool/slow
Litigation boutiques are hiring but they are super picky (think Big Law requirements)
Davis Polk raised the first year starting salaries from $190k to $205k and Cravath (the previous trend setter) matched (as have several others now). Has led to some mid/small firms rethink their comp.
Big Law v. Small Law
Corporate v. Litigation
Hardly any small/mid corporate firms
No sign of slowing down in 2022
In this market, small/mid associates and in-house lawyers CAN make a move to Big Law
Work/Office Arrangements
Flexibility is here to stay (in Big Law)
How flexible is the question
AmLaw 50 is still at home in Houston or back in the office by choice
Multiple office firms across the county/internationally have a hard time making different policies for different offices
AmLaw 200 will likely move to a 3/2 (three days in the office and two at home)
Though new associates will likely be required to be in the office for the training/mentorship/culture/etc.
Mid-levels and Senior associates will likely push for even more
Small firms
Will likely have more variety of policies
More likely to be in the office than the Big Law firms
Challenges to flex work
Lack of integration within the firm
What happens when promotion time comes or the work slows down and layoffs are required? Will the person who has been at home be disadvantaged versus the one who has been in the office?
How can we replicate the in-office benefits and experiences that we don't want to lose?

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

This is not OCI anymore
Not tell me about yourself or what practice to you want to go in
There is a specific need they are looking to fill
So firm needs to understand exact experience
If you have stellar academics (great grades at a great law school), list that first. Otherwise start with your law firm experience
3-6 bullets under each position communicating exactly what you do
Your role in what types of deals/cases
You can take out the bullets under internships or clerkships if you need space
If you have been practicing for at least 3+ years you need a deal sheet
Know as much about the job you are applying for as possible so you can tailor your experience to the need
Litigators definitely need a writing sample
GPA on the resume if it was at least a 3.2 (Big Law still cares even for laterals)
Big Law resumes don't need interest sections, but small law firms will often like to see it
If you do have it, make the interests unique, specific

Final Thought

If you are going to use a recruiter, look for those who have contacts at the firms you are interested in
Recruiters can help navigate some tough conversations and issues that come up (conflicts, negotiating offers, etc.)
Once your resume gets submitted to a firm (whether directly or through a recruiter), another recruiter won't be able to help you for at least 6-12 months at that firm. So be mindful.
Pros/Cons about using one or multiple recruiters, but one tends to work better for the candidate.
Candidates should give thought to whether they want to use a recruiter BEFORE they start doing anything in the process; this allows for any recruiter to best help you.
Recruiters can give insight on comp, especially in smaller firms where there isn't a standard scale

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic employers most want to see in an associate: smart
What habit has been key to your success: consistency
Favorite app/productivity tool: Linkedin
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Food blogging / foodie
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / Podcast

Thanks again to Anne Heaviside for joining us on today's show!

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Shameer Soni, managing partner and real estate lawyer with Patel Law Group in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Shameer talks about starting a law firm, the real estate practice, communicating via resume, and wide receivers v. linemen.

His firm/practice

Runs the real estate practice: multi-family purchase/sale/development.
Works with retail/industrial/hospitality clients as well
Started the firm 11 years ago with two other partners built around entrepreneurs and business owners. The idea was to represent these clients in their core business as well as their investment portfolio (i.e. real estate).
Started with clients whose core businesses were doctors, IT staffing, hotel
Led to corporate immigration and real estate practice areas
Also had/have a title company
Now have a litigation practice as well that has recently pared down to work with clients adjacent to the real estate practice
Got his start at a larger firm doing entertainment/film finance in Atlanta, but when he came over to start this firm, the Dallas/Texas market didn't support the film finance area, which led to the transition to real estate
He went to every networking event, meetup in the beginning to get the firm off the ground
His partner Anish went to a networking breakfast every week at 6am at Steak and Shake
There is no bad meeting, no bad meetup. Your network has value in perpetuity.
In the early days, he built relationships with lawyers who knew what they were doing and were willing to help when he got into situations he was unsure about
Learned a lot about firm culture and the things they wanted in a firm while working for others, and then used that info to build the culture in their firm. Want to be the un-law firm law firm. From social interaction to limiting hourly billing (they do zero hourly billing on the transactional side). Conduct exit interviews with lawyers who leave and learn more about ways to improve the firm's culture.
Market
90% of their work is in Texas; 60% in north Texas.
Deals ranging from $2M to $300M and all of those are in a strong market right now.
Industrial is hot right now as well.
Community retail is picking up.
Hotels were crushed and remain so for now.
Residential is on fire in Texas, but COVID has slowed down the process with supply chain issues, etc.

Advice to lawyers in practice

Learn business development and client relationships early; be proactive in asking to go with your partner on client visits
Learn everything about a deal, not just your specific task/role
Do as many meetings as you can
You want to become a profit center as soon as possible rather than be a cost center for the firm
Recognize that you are part of the deal and collaborating with the client for a win-win scenario; it is more than just a piece of paper
Clients aren't hiring you to be a title review guy; they are hiring you to do a deal
Must understand the forest and not just your tree
Establish trust with your partners quickly so they are comfortable bringing you along to meet partners without embarrassing them

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

Recognize what the firm is looking for and make sure your documents clearly communicate your ability to meet those needs
Be specific about what you have done
What size deals?
What type of deals?
What role did you have?
Find ways to connect with the partners (did you go to the same law school?)
He rewrites his bio on the law firm website every quarter! It is a good exercise to think about when writing/rewriting your resume.
Looking for the right fit for the need they have at the time
Broadway show staffing example
Football recruiting example

Final Thought

Attitude makes up for a lot; skills can be learned/taught. Much harder to teach personality/attitude/mindset.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: work ethic
What habit has been key to your success: persistence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Netdocs
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Formula One racing
Favorite legal movie: Liar Liar / podcast

Thanks again to Shameer Soni for joining us on today's show!

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Erin Rodgers, entertainment lawyer and shareholder at Rodgers Selvera, joins us on today's show! Erin talks about the ever changing entertainment industry, knowing your value, and the interest section on your resume.

Her firm/practice

Partnered with Sergio Selvera
He had stopped practicing for a time to start a record label when he came to a CLE where she was speaking.
She became his lawyer for a time, and then he decided he wanted to practice again and they decided to partner up
Entertainment law
Music/TV/Writers/etc.
Non-profit
IP / contractual
She has a music degree and is still a performer, which has helped her build the practice through the relationships she has
Houston is the 4th largest city in the country so there is a lot of art business
Austin has a better marketing department for its arts scene
But much of the work is federal and the communication can be done remotely, so geography doesn't tend to matter as much
Being an artist helps her understand what clients are going through as new technologies/distribution/etc. issues come up
Textbooks can't keep up with the changes in the industry
Students can help you keep up!
One record label friend says they are predominately marketing new music via Tik Tok and Fortnite
Why not you? (when it comes to practicing entertainment law)
Do something every day that moves you forward to the thing you want to do.
Entertainment Law is an amalgam of things that already exist (copyright, entity formation, trademarks, etc.)
Non-profit/entertainment/sports have quite a bit of overlap, and for the arts sometimes the entity itself should be a non-profit
There is a new Copyright Royalty Board
Essentially a small claims court/mediation for copyright, since so many "violations" go unchallenged due to the high cost of lawsuits
Pros/cons: will make many more people/companies likely to be challenged for their work that takes from others
A panel is supposed to make decisions

Advice to lawyers in practice

If you want to practice entertainment law, volunteering with the Texas Accountants and Lawyers for the Arts can provide great experience
Show your sincere interest in the practice
Don't make it more convenient / less costly in time for the lawyer/partner do just do it themselves as opposed to showing you how
Know the value of the service that you offer
If you aren't charging enough, some people/potential clients/referrers may assume you aren't good
Understand the market
Setting your rates can help you filter what type of clients you work with
On Work/Life Balance
Make the choice as early on as you can
Prioritize certain things on top of your law practice, even if its small chunks of time
Minimize the amount of work that isn't billable
That we can do everything ourselves doesn't mean we should

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

Highlight specific experience that relates to the position, the industry
Interests section matters!
"want to work in a small office" not the best response to why do you want to work here. Maybe that could be the 4th/5th thing on the list, but certainly shouldn't be the first.
Employers can tell when you are sending the same cover letter to every job/employer. Tailor your cover letters! She actually gave credit to those who voluntarily submitted a cover letter when it wasn't asked for.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: think on your feet / adaptable
What habit has been key to your success: work/life balance
Favorite app/productivity tool: pen/paper list and random number generator
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: playing music (clarinet, accordion, guitar, piano, vocals)
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / Lone Star Lawyers Movie Verdicts Episode

Thanks again to Erin Rodgers for joining us on today's show!

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Marty Sadler, insurance litigator with Litchfield Cavo in Houston, joins us on today's show! Marty talks about managing up, maintaining your humanity, and the importance of poise in an interview.

His firm/practice

22 offices across the nation
full service firm
Houston office (15 lawyers) mostly does insurance work (he does 1st party and many in his office do third party)
Texas lawyers needed for so much of the weather-generated work (hurricanes/hail/wind) that Texas generates
New Texas Supreme Court opinion in Hinojos (v. State Farm) - related to payment of claims after an appraisal. Used to be that if you paid promptly, you avoided all the statutory delay interest penalties. The SC took that away.
COVID update (9/29/21)
With 22 offices there are 22 different COVID situations; every office doing their own thing
Houston office: people can decide how much they want to work in the office v. at home
Marty has only been back in the office once since March 2020; and that one time was by order of a Federal Judge for a hearing!
Very few in-person hearings; no trials since the start of COVID
Expects he will work in a hybrid office format for the rest of his career
What have we lost (or will lose) moving more to relationship online v in-person?

Advice to lawyers in practice

Attention to detail is the most salient element for success as a young lawyer
Learn how to "manage up" in your professional relationships
Don't just react
Communicate with your partners as to what your workload is like and ask for the priority order of the projects
Talk to other associates and see how they work with their partners/supervisors
Resources:
https://www.idealist.org/en/careers/managing-up
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-does-it-mean-to-manage-up-11608242276
https://www.attorneyatwork.com/managing-up/
Push to product
He can't revise a motion that you haven't given him, or that is missing large pieces
He wants to see the work twice: once as a framework of the work early that he can edit, and then a polished form of the product later
Partners may have a different process, so again it is important for you to get to know what each partner you work for expects/requires. Also have to manage the calendar to allow for the entire process to work before filing
On business development
Learn how to be a lawyer first
You don't have to be 50 to get your first referral; young lawyers have an opportunity to get cases early in their careers
On work/life balance
You can always work longer/harder, so you can become consumed in being a lawyer
You have to figure out a way to remember you are a human being first
Don't go home to the family as a lawyer

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

He likes to see some judicial intern/clerk experience if you are a new lawyer so you have been in the courtroom
Writing samples are helpful
Show poise in the interview; comfortable and confident when things change on them
Find ways to talk about what you bring to the firm and how you will help the firm

Final Thoughts

If you are an associate, the best thing you can do to improve your career is to make yourself indispensable to your partner(s). Will increase your client contact, chances to do depositions, etc.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: poise
What habit has been key to your success: attention to detail
Favorite app/productivity tool: Word
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: bird photography
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / My Cousin Vinny

CHECK OUT HIS BIRD PHOTOGRAPHY!

On Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marty-sadler-61094120/detail/recent-activity/

Thanks again to Marty Sadler for joining us on today's show!

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Lauren Valkenaar, a partner and commercial litigator with Chasnoff Stribling in San Antonio, joins us on today's show. Lauren talks about having an internal standard, being honest and authentic in your job search, and developing business best practices.

Her firm/practice

Boutique litigation firm
Business/commercial litigation
Broke off of a large firm and wanted to maintain the same level of quality but get a little more autonomy
Flexible/nimble
Cases deal with Breach of Contract, Tortious Interference, Fraud, etc.
COVID has changed the way they practice
Not physically in the courtroom, but they have adapted well
Zoom hearings will likely stay
Their clients get sued all over the country, so Zoom is a positive
Zoom depos are a different thing and in-person is more important there
COVID also impacting their clients
How to deal with their employees / working remote or in-office
Everyone is an employment lawyer now (Daniel)
Don't get complacent with your technology (Daniel) / Don't be a cat!
San Antonio
Very collegial bar
All the amenities of large city but a smaller town feel
Great mentors because lawyers are close and kind
As a young professional, many more opportunities to get involved in the community and make an impact at a high level

Advice to lawyers in practice

Create an internal standard / desire to get it right / goes beyond checking the box / when you know that you are likely the only one to know whether or not you "ran an issue to ground."
So much of being a lawyer is internal motivation
Surround yourself with great people who keep these high standards
You are the average of the five people closest to you (Daniel / Jim Rohn)
Think about the business aspect of the law firm
Learn from people who are different from you
Be a team player; that shows up immediately and makes a big impact
Are you offering to help on other cases when you are done for the day but others are still working?
Focus on the work product / the words / the documents
Have an intellectual curiosity; think/learn beyond the discrete task you are working on; try to get a handle on the larger picture and how your piece fits in
Don't be a jerk
Don't have sloppy work product
Communicate, especially if you are doing work for multiple partner with different deadlines. Don't just be silent.
On business development:
Plant seeds and build relationships with zero expectations they will turn into business
Your law school classmates can become your clients or referral sources; stay in touch with them!
Do great work
Get involved in the community
Don't do something for the sole purpose of developing business: rarely does that work
Over time, business will come in more from referrals based upon the work you have done for someone; but that takes time to build up

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

No typos in the resume!
Connection to the type of work should show through in the resume
Continuity and not a lot of jumping around firm to firm
The more specific you can be on the resume the better in order to show what they've done and accomplished in their prior/current roles. Helps you to stand out, but also for the interviewer to know how to slot you in if they do hire you. How much training will you need, etc.?
Come to the interview prepared with questions
Avoid arrogance/entitlement; that's a turnoff
Honesty and authenticity shines through

Final Thoughts

Be honest and self-aware in what you are looking for in a firm; those are critical to making a good match in the hiring process.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Grit (book by Angela Duckworth; Ted Talk)
What habit has been key to your success: Never assuming; always go back and double check
Favorite app/productivity tool: Remarkable
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Travel (Italy; Cambodia)
Favorite legal movie: A Time To Kill

Thanks again to Lauren Valkenaar for joining us on today's show!

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Andrew Tuegel, a plaintiff's attorney and partner with Simpson, Simpson, & Tuegel in Bridgeport (TX), joins us on today's show. Andrew talks about knowing your jurisdiction, becoming indispensable, being honest in an interview, and Ted Lasso.

His firm/practice

Located in Wise County (NW of Fort Worth); Decatur is the county seat and their office is in Bridgeport
Small firm that focuses on plaintiff personal injury / wrongful death / mass tort practice. Most of the work is contingent fee; the rest is local business.
Majority of client base is in Wise County and the western part of the metroplex. Mass tort clients are nationwide.
Likes that he has tried cases all over the country, since even with the local clients, the case itself may get filed in other jurisdictions.
If you are filing in jurisdictions are aren't familiar with, know the substantive law that applies
Two jurisdictions in U.S. that still have a 1% comparative fault/contributory negligence bar to recovery (Virginia and North Carolina), so that might determine whether or not to take a case of where to file, etc.
Understand how the contingency fees can be structured (Texas has no cap other than not unconscionable; pretty wide latitude, but others have specific limitations on contingence fees)...this is a factor in how to evaluate/value the case.
Plaintiff lawyers are nervous every time the legislature meets
Big push for HB 19 (tort reform in trucking wreck context) that became effective 9/1.
Texas Supreme Court case recently allowed people pursing uninsured motorist claims can also get attorney fees.
COVID update (as of 8/19)
He has a case set for the end of September
He was recently in a hearing where mid-way through the judge had to end the hearing early because some type of exposure had occurred in the courthouse.
Nothing moves cases like firm trial dates.
Criminal trials take precedence and will bump the civil cases

Advice to lawyers in practice

Make yourself indispensable; find something that you can contribute to the team and that you are the best at. Become a necessary part of the team (shoutout to Baylor Law's Practice Court)
When he was with Harrison Steakley, Matt Morrison was the partner on a bunch of opioid overdose cases that needed a lot of expert/technical witnesses and related depositions, etc. He was good at briefing on these expert issues and making sure they could keep their expert and get rid of the other side's expert.
This led to him becoming part of the trial team for one of the cases in Utah, and then in Maine, and then in North Carolina. And while he briefed like crazy, he also got to take some of the witnesses at trial.
If you do well with a little thing, you will get more opportunities with larger things. The inverse is true: if you don't do the little things well, you won't get the larger opportunities.
Become the expert on novel or local rules/laws; this is a place for young lawyers to become the most knowledgeable about an area within their firm.
Steve Harrison, legendary Waco trial lawyer and a gentleman-rancher, said that in every law firm, you need some combination of chicken getters and chicken pluckers. And lawyers need to figure out where they are in the getter/plucker scale. Getter = bringing in clients/cases/business; Pluckers = bill hours/push cases/do the work. Some people are a combination of both. But you need to contribute to a firm in one or both of these ways in order to be valuable to them.
Re: business development from the plaintiff's side:
the more serious a case, the more relational the business development is going to be, either with the potential client or referral source (another attorney, friend of the client, etc.)
the less serious a case, the more a Google search or a response to an ad can work
Some of the best PI lawyers get their referrals from other lawyers
A lot of the advertising PI lawyers will actually wind up referring the case to the best trial lawyer in that area rather than trying it themselves

Advice to lawyers on the lateral market

Be honest about what your experience is
it's okay if you haven't done something or only done it a few times; the interviewer just needs to know what you can do on day one
Be willing to learn and work
On the plaintiff's side, understand it is a results-oriented business (not an hours billed business)
Must be willing to do what it takes to win (within the bounds of ethical)

Ted Lasso Commentary

He is a big soccer fan (Liverpool) and was immediately interested once he first became aware of it
Original Ted Lasso commercials for the premiere league coming to NBC from 2013!!
Come for the humor; stay for the heart!
Addresses tough subjects without being preachy, but we're going to talk about it.
Can use some of this to talk with people in your own life about these subjects

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Willingness
What habit has been key to your success: Get up early
Favorite app/productivity tool: Twitter
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Pilot
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde / podcast

Thanks again to Andrew Tuegel for joining us on today's show!

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Daniel Hare is the founder and president of Varsity Search, a legal recruiting company dedicated to building great teams by bringing together lawyers and law firms. In this episode, Daniel provides and update on the legal hiring market, as well as some tips on how to productively work with a legal recruiter.

Legal Market Update
Big Law Lateral market is active, with a focus on M&A and Private Equity
Holland & Knight merged with Thompson & Knight, effective 8/1
More large firms are adding/growing their Texas presence
Quinn Emanuel added an Austin office to their Texas footprint in Houston, and is looking at Dallas
Energy, tech, private equity, IP are leading practice areas
Texas-based firms trying to hang in
Big Law start salaries have gone to $205k, scaling to $365k for year 8
Full scale, putting 3rd/4th year lawyers at $240k-$275k
Much of this is specific to big law; how does it impact small/medium firms
While I often think about Big Law and all other law as two different economies, the reality is Big Law does have an impact
Trying to recruit Big Law associates to the boutiques has become more difficult financially. A $150k salary for a third year lawyer may not have seemed like a terrible pay cut when they were making $205k or $215k. Now they are making $240k, $250k. A $100k cut is a lot for anyone.
These salaries will continue to trend of Big Law focusing on corporate/transactional areas and pushing the expensive litigation matters to the boutiques.
What I’m seeing in small firm recruiting / anecdotal
A lot of activity / strong market
Heavier on the litigation side (some for reasons above)
Salaries in the $100k-$170k depending on the firm, the level of candidate’s experience, etc.
Insurance defense, government/admin, and family law tend to be on the lower end by virtue of the legal fees those client bases are willing to pay.
Firms servicing small/mid-size companies will tend to pay more
Employers like candidates who haven't bounced around to a lot of different firms
If that's you, highlight it in interviews; it's a strength!
If that's not you, be prepared to address this issue
Even if you aren't asked directly
Don't bad-mouth prior employers, but instead talk positively about the employer you moved to
Pivot to why the firm you are interviewing with presents an opportunity you value and are interested in.
Preference tends to go to candidates who have been able to get more hands-on experience earlier. So if you can start taking depos and handling hearings early on, that makes you more valuable to a potential lateral employer.
Make sure your resume doesn't just read like a job description the firm's HR department would write; use specifics, highlight accomplishments, add numbers
Relocation is possible
Prepare to communicate your reason for the move to the new city beyond the job
It can be an advantage in more niche areas where firms know each other in a city and prefer not to poach
How to work productively with a legal recruiter
Share what you are up to
Have you already applied somewhere?
Firms won't work with recruiters if they already have a relationship with you, so we as recruiters will want to avoid reaching out to those firms.
We also want to see the types of firms/jobs you have applied to; it helps us know what you are looking for.
If you want to use a recruiter, you should limit these direct applications because it limits how/where we can help
Be open/honest about what you are looking for
We can only help you if you tell us what you are looking for.
I feel bad when a candidate takes a position in a city/practice area they had never mentioned before, because perhaps I could have helped them find something better/sooner/etc.
Sometimes things change; that’s okay! Just keep us updated.
Talk with us before you respond to an offer
Sometimes it can feel tempting to just take the offer or make a counter offer that isn’t far from the original offer, but best to get our perspective first. Your instincts might be right; but you also might wind up leaving money on the table.

Enjoy your Labor Day Weekend next week and we'll be back with a new episode the following Monday!

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Jessica Mullins-Ta, a corporate immigration lawyer and partner Berry Appleman & Leiden in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Jessica talks about knowing how to look for the answer, prioritizing balance, and eliminating those resume typos!

Her firm/practice

represent companies in bringing their employees to the US so they can get the appropriate visas that allow them to work
she joined the firm out of law school to do more of their litigation matters, but stayed on and grew into the immigration practice
regardless of what's going on in the politics of it, there is always an impact and always changes in substance and emphasis
most embassies are shut down right now; many workers are stuck there and can't get back to the U.S.
businesses are no longer satisfied with pausing travel, so executives and consultants are traveling internationally which has been a challenge with state department restrictions (but those have relaxed some of those (as of the date of recording / July 8)
large businesses make up a big percentage of certain types of work visas (especially those for quick, one day travel/meeting types of visas among C-level), but other types of workers and visas can be found throughout the economy through mid-size and small businesses, particularly in the STEM fields
tech
oil & gas
government (and contractors)
universities
research
in some areas, the regulations haven't been updated quick enough to keep up with the advancements in tech

Advice to lawyers in practice

Need to overcome the fear of not knowing
You won't know the answer but you have the tools, and that's okay
Understand where to start looking for an answer, and take the lead on what you think is the right direction.
She is a working mom who errs on the side of not saying no (to anyone), and that isn't sustainable
burnout is real
balance is important
even if you feel like you can take more on, that doesn't mean you should
take your full maternity leave
if you are unhappy it may be how you are practicing law and not the actual practice of law; evaluate this before you leave the profession
many times we put this pressure/expectation on ourselves
Can help to have a California/international offices of your firm which typically has more mental health/vacation/leave
Don't be overconfident and miss an issue or a risk, or present a client with assurances that you shouldn't/can't provide
Be eager to learn and ask questions

Advice to Lawyers On The Lateral Market

No typos! Employers will think you don't care enough to make sure the resume is correct, your work product won't be good either
Know what the firm is looking for. Do they need a writer? A trial lawyer? An administrative/forms lawyer?
Highlight your strengths, interests and experiences so the firm can figure out if you fit what they need
In the interview, are you engaging? Relatable? Client skills are harder to teach than the actual substantive law, so that is what they are looking to see whether you have it or you don't.

Final Thoughts

Leadership appreciates people who work hard and try hard, and if you do what it takes to learn what you don't know, it will be appreciated.
Integrity matters

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: willingness to try
What habit has been key to your success: always assuming I'm wrong, and trying to prove it
Favorite app/productivity tool: proprietary firm dashboard
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: hip-hop music (Jay-Z)
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Jessica Mullins-Ta for joining us on today's show!

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Kathleen Turner Beduze, a fiduciary litigator and shareholder at Crain Caton & James in Houston, joins us on today's show. Kathleen talks about showing confidence and curiosity, turning interviews into conversations, and of course, Free Britney!

Her firm/practice

Her practice focuses on fiduciary litigation and guardianship work
2015 revamped guardianship code
legislature is generally against full-blown guardianships, preferring things like power-of-attorneys instead (and less court supervision)
Impacts the planning attorneys in trying to figure out what should be in the general estate planning documents
Firm
45+ attorneys
firm handles almost everything except for family and environmental
Has grown over the years
Pros/cons to being midsize firm
work/life balance
not the same rates as large firms (but this can lead to more business as well)
quality of work can be the same as Big Law
What's up with "Free Britney!"?
Go read/listen to her letter to the court
Recognize that California is much different than Texas when it comes to guardianships
How is her father getting a % of her gig money in his capacity as conservator as opposed to business manager/agent?
Covid Update (7/1/21)
Courts - completely depends on where you are.
She had an in-person jury trial in Galveston in May
jurors were six feet apart and split between the jury box and the gallery
Montgomery was holding in-person hearings as well
Harris County not in-person yet (early fall setting for an in-person trial)
Has done trials by Zoom so it can work
Clients
Their clients are all over the nation, and the rise in video calls have
Advice for Zoom hearings/trials/depos/etc.
You have to be prepared
One of the biggest complaints from judges is lawyers taking things to casually/informally; treat it like you are in person
Remember that your face is always on camera and someone may be looking at you when you don't realize it

Advice to lawyers in practice

Have confidence in yourself; not necessarily in specific areas of the law that you haven't learned yet, but in your abilities to write, research, speak, strategize, etc. This isn't ego or arrogance; there's a difference.
Be willing to pitch a new idea or something that other may not have thought of yet
It is okay if your personality and a client's personality don't exactly jive; don't worry about it.
Ask questions of partners and more senior lawyers; admit if you don't know something; communicate
Ex. if you are overloaded with work from other partners and you get a new assignment from a new partner
If you don't understand, repeat the instructions
Take notes! Don't show up without a pen/paper! You will forget!
(Daniel refers to Jim Chester's DDB (Deadline/Deliverable/Budget))

Advice to lawyers on the lateral market

On paper
Academics do matter
Beyond that, extracurriculars/interests matter to her. She wants to know what the person is like. Use your documents to show your unique path to where you are today.
Show why you are different
Show why you are looking to move and why you want to work here. A lot of bouncing around raises questions and doesn't look great.
In an interview
Exhibit calmness; don't show your nerves
Practice the interview beforehand to try to help with this
Come with good/specific questions that show you have prepared and are familiar with the firm and the interviewers
A conversation is better than straight Q/A

Final Thoughts

Be comfortable with who you are, what you are doing, and what you are wanting to do; find the right level of work/life balance that works for you.
Everything comes in waves/stages in life, so just recognize that.
(Daniel) Don't feel stuck in something if your life circumstances change and don't judge yourself to harshly if you make changes
Never meet a stranger; build and maintain your network

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: communication
What habit has been key to your success: perseverance
Favorite app/productivity tool: iTimekeep
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: family
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde (Podcast) / The Firm

Thanks again to Kathleen Turner Beduze for joining us on today's show!

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In this Movie Verdicts-esque episode, special guest Bobby Soltani joins Daniel to talk all things legal in Seinfeld.

We discuss:

The various trials and cases
Kramer v. Java World
Kramer v. Big Tobacco
The City of New York v. Newman (x2)
Kramer v. Sue Ellen Mitschke
Claire v. PlayNow
The lawyers in the show
Jackie Chiles (if you know you know)
Vanessa (early Jerry girlfriend)
Cheryl (immigration lawyer who also sues Elaine)
Schellbach (estate lawyer / Ben Stein)
Frank Costanza's divorce lawyer (Larry David / the man in the cape)
The judges in the show
Judge Arthur Vandelay (played by Movie Verdicts veteran Stanley Anderson)
Judge Sackett (Newman's speeding ticket trial)
Judge Hart (Newman's parking ticket trial)
Judge ?? (Kramer v. Mitschke)
Several movie verdicts-style awards
More!
Surprise after the ending music so listen all the way through! (hint: Seinfeld character Cameo)

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Bobby Soltani, patent and IP lawyer with Seed IP in Seattle, joins us on today's show! Bobby talks about his career journey through IP law, knowing your audience, and how many lateral moves it takes to raise a red flag.

His firm/practice

Largest IP boutique in the pacific NW
He works in patent prosecution, mostly in electronics and software
In the software space, lots of discussion about what is patent eligible subject matter; statutes are generally silent (i.e. broad) but courts are drawing lines much more strictly
lots of variation in both the courts and the patent office, so can present challenges with advising clients
COVID update (as of June 16th)
Most of the firm and their clients are still working from home
Mostly been able to seamlessly transition and continue working with clients
Some sectors of clients have been hit hard by the pandemic, while others have seen growth (i.e. gaming)
Career track
Started at a small boutique patent firm in Boulder, CO
Got lots of hands on experience and immediate client contact
All prosecution / no litigation
Went to Seattle in 2010 to work with a large firm
50% patent prosecution / 50% litigation
Discovered that litigation didn't fit his personality
Moved to Seed in 2013 to return to full-time patent prosecution and at an IP boutique
In his experience, plenty of patent/IP litigators didn't have the hard science background that is required for patent prosecution and some litigation. Though it can be a bit tougher to get your foot in the door without it.
Sometimes being a lay person can be helpful, since the judge and jury likely won't have that background either
Judge Albright and the Western District of Texas in Waco is now an IP litigation hot spot

Advice to lawyers in practice

Know the audience you are communicating with and respond directly to what is being asked
Get comfortable with the process of learning how to be a lawyer
Show ownership and dedication to the work and the projects
Keep an open line of communication with any partners you are doing work for
Be creative
On work/life balance:
Reducing commutes can really help, as the pandemic has revealed
Though it can be tough to separate work from home when you work at home
Firms providing more mental/physical health benefits/programs can be helpful, though lawyers need to take advantage of them
Analytical skills will become even more important as legal practice evolves over time and as things like LPOs and AI take on more routine tasks

Advice to lawyers on the lateral market

If looking at a specialized firm, know that it may be looking for that specific background/education/experience that precisely fits the need of the position.
Demonstrate a consistency in growing and challenging yourself.
One or two moves early on in someone's career doesn't raise too much of a flag for him, but six or seven moves in the same number of years would likely raise concerns.
Candidates would be wise to address this issue head on in an interview or cover letter
Know that small/boutique firms usually want to hire people who they will like and get along with, and will enjoy working with day in / day out

Final Thoughts

Work hard
Work on your relationships; stay in touch with your law school colleagues

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: dedication
What habit has been key to your success: keeping a daily task list
Favorite app/productivity tool: OneNote
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: Tennis
Favorite legal movie: 12 Angry Men

Thanks again to Bobby Soltani for joining us on today's show!

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JoAl Cannon Sheridan, family lawyer and founder of Sheridan Family Law in Austin, joins us on today's show! JoAl talks about growing up with a lawyer father, the latest in family law, and balancing confidence with humility.

Her firm/practice

She is originally from Mexia, TX, which is perhaps known best by a joke that went "viral" decades ago:
This older couple was driving East on 84 out of Waco, and kept seeing the signs for Mexia. Being that they were old and married and argued about everything, they got into an argument about how to properly pronounce "Mexia."As they pulled into town they decided they needed to settle the debate once an for all. They immediately saw the sign for Dairy Queen and pulled into the parking lot. They walked up to the counter where a bright-eyed young high school girl was manning the register, and they asked, "How do you say the name of this place?"The girl got a confused look and said back very slowly... "DAI-RY QUEEN."
Joe Cannon is her dad and a well known lawyer who just retired
Cowrote the Texas desegregation bill in the 1960s
She would go to his office all the time as a kid, and always knew she wanted to be a lawyer
After years at a couple of other firms, started her own firm
Niche areas
Third-party custody
International/jurisdictional
Drawn to family law because it is a calling and a ministry
Dealing with great people at the saddest points in their life
Takes a certain personality and calling
She also has a love for animals and thought about becoming a veterinarian (but didn't have the stomach for it!)
Family law update
The pandemic
People who are forced into house arrest for 15 months either brings you closer or pushes people apart
Has caused family law practice to be very busy
Supreme Court did the right thing by ordering parents to honor custody arrangements and not use COVID as an excuse to ignore them
New rule as of 1/1/21 - Mandatory disclosures due 30 days after an answer is due
Lawyers believe they are the better judges of their lawsuits
Not every case needs full blown discovery
Rule 11 agreements to defer that are very common
Two new Supreme Court decisions
In re CJC (2020)
Lots of ways to have standing as a non-parent, but two main ones (you had actual care/possession in the past six months OR you are family and the child's health is at issue)
Overturned In re: VLK (2000) which said there was no parental presumption in a modification (so this was a best interest of the child test)
So now there is a parental presumption
In re H?? (2019)
For the six month rule, how do you define care/possession?
Excludes daycare workers, etc.
If you were making day-to-day decisions for the child, feeding them, taking them to the doctor
This is a standing question; doesn't mean they will get custody, but gives them their day in court
Practicing during COVID (as of 6/30/21)
Challenging and just not the same versus being in the same room with people
Various courts are opening up at different paces depending on your county
Travis County on 9/1
Rural counties have already opened up
Live bench conferences / administrative hearings / uncontested dockets etc. will likely continue by virtual/video stream depending on the judge/jurisdiction

Advice to lawyers in practice

Respect your elders
Don't get overly aggressive trying to prove yourself; give deference to a more experienced attorney
Civility is important
Understand the big picture and the lay of the land
Show good judgment and maturity
Admit that you don't 100% understand what you are doing
Share what you are thinking and ask another attorney what they think
Don't get into the mud with your clients
This can be very difficult
Recognize it doesn't help you be a better lawyer/advocate for your client when you do this
Find a good mentor
takes the time to show you the ropes
Be realistic with your clients, and don't let them dictate how you work the case
Your reputation with judges is on the line, and if you aren't reasonable with requests or haven't made a reasonable effort to settle the case, it will impact your ability to help clients when you do have to be in the courtroom

Advice to lawyers on the lateral market

Firms may need different roles/experiences at different times, so know what they are looking for
Communicate to employers why you want to do what you do
Integrity matters
Dress appropriately for all interviews
Bring your A game
Confident plus humble
fine line between promoting yourself (which you have to do in an interview) and not being arrogant
Be eager to do well and make a difference
Chemistry/fit with the firm
Know your audience and do your research, but don't go overboard with personal research
Why do you want to work here?

Final Thoughts

Give service back to the profession
Bar work
Pro Bono
It is important and makes your work more fulfilling
Another way to pursue work/life balance

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: loyalty
What habit has been key to your success: To-do lists
Favorite app/productivity tool: Clio
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: scuba diving
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird (podcast)/ Legally Blonde (podcast)

Thanks again to JoAl Cannon Sheridan for joining us on today's show!

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Mary Green, medical malpractice and personal injury lawyer with Pierce Skrabanek in Houston, joins us on today's show! Mary talks about organization, asking the how and why, and moving from the defense side to the plaintiff's side.

Her firm/practice

Medical malpractice law
Biggest changes were in 2003 tort reform
Now paying attention to SB6 relating to immunity of healthcare providers in treatment of COVID patients
Almost every one of her cases was on hold last spring/summer, but then everyone adapted and many of the cases were able to progress, and had her first in-person trial last month
Some cases settled quickly for not wanting to wait forever to get into court, but others just held out since there wasn't any pressure of a pending trial to encourage a settlement
Having worked on the defense side of the personal injury docket is a plus for a plaintiff's firm: communicating with an adjuster, moving cases forward, etc.
But you do have to adjust to a more proactive approach since the plaintiff's side drives the litigation
Getting away from the billable hour requires a change in mindset from checking a box on time to accomplishing specific tasks/goals regardless of how long they take.

Advice to lawyers in practice

Organization has been key for her
Evernote!
Find a way that works for you; there isn't a one-size-fits-all way to accomplish the goals for the client
If your partner takes the time to explain, teach, share reasons/rationale with you, listen and engage. Or if they aren't, ask! That demonstrates your curiosity and interest in understanding
Also can give you a chance to demonstrate what you've done so far
establish rapport with partners
understand context - if there is an urgent deadline this might not be possible
Don't take fake-it-till-you-make-it to an extreme
Have confidence, but understand when you don't know something and need to ask questions and learn
Much of your business will come by referrals, so maintain connections
with others in your field
with former classmates
with other lawyers

Advice to lawyers on the lateral market

Tailor your resume to the specific position you are applying to
shows that you really want this job and aren't just looking for a job
this can also help you think through whether or not the position is the right fit for you
The firm is looking for how will the candidate interact with clients, judges, etc. based on how they are communicating in the interview
Interviewers are also trying to determine whether they want to work with the person day-in and day-out
Candidates should be thinking about that same thing; do you want to work with this group of people?
Doesn't mean they are looking for the same type of people; but rather a group who can work well together and get along together

Final Thoughts

Remember the human side of things; clients are often going through one of the most challenging times in their lives
Everyone grieves differently
Everyone responds to stress differently

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: hardworking
What habit has been key to your success: organization
Favorite app/productivity tool: Evernote
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: travel
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Mary Green for joining us on today's show!

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Robert and Daniel talk about when the courts are wrong, a lot of things that didn't age well, and a surprisingly high number of deaths for a movie like this.

The Pelican Brief IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107798/?ref_=vp_back

All The President's Men IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074119/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_8

Robert on Twitter: @rcallahanwaco

Daniel on Twitter: @danielhare

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Jim Chester, a partner at Klemchuk and a business and technology attorney, joins me on today's show. Jim talks about entrepreneurship, finding a fulfilling career path, and deadlines, deliverables, and budgets.

His firm/practice

Boutique technology law firm
Focuses on business transactions working with small and mid-size companies at all stages
Some others in the firm do patent and IP litigation work
There is always something new, especially with technology company clients (he also does some international / trade work which is always evolving)
Cybersecurity and data privacy are major issues he works on
GDPR for all of EU and California's law are important
Other states are starting to come online
There isn't a federal law
Not enough enforcement actions yet to know exactly how these are applying; creates uncertainty
His career path?
Tried a bunch of things in law school
Didn't enjoy litigation
Started career as an international business / trade lawyer (wrote his master's thesis on NAFTA)
Sounds sexy, but it isn't.
Glorified tax law
Realized he enjoyed working with smaller clients, but they didn't have many trade issues
Started his own firm to transition
Commercial/transactional IP
You have to invest in yourself early in your career; things that you won't be paid for but help you learn what you like and get better at it
You create a lot of your own luck
Four quadrant matrix (Interested / Not interested and Market for it / not a market for it) - get into the quadrant that is interested and a market for it
There has been growth in the business transactions area for them during COVID; people had time and started new projects
Law doesn't typically embrace change quickly, but COVID forced change (e.g. Zoom, tech, work from home)
WSJ article - COVID kickstarted the 21st century
Some of these changes will be silver linings to the pandemic
Will require more self-discipline
Need to completely get rid of the stigma of work from home
His entrepreneurial ventures
Lawyer co-working space
His own law firm
Subscription based model for industry-specific legal forms
A few other non-legal related

Advice to lawyers in practice

Manage your manager
take responsibility for your own projects
anticipate what is next
Don't leave a partner's office with an assignment without the deadline / deliverable / budget...the DDB
Gives you a much better idea as to the scope
Daniel references a The West Wing episode
Find someone who has a job you want 20 years from now and look at their bio (Linkedin)
what skills did they obtain along the way?
what experiences did they get?
Don't try to live to someone else's standard of success; listen to yourself.
The choices are based on the idea that he is a lawyer because of who he is (not the other way around)
Be a self-starter, creative, entrepreneurial
Find a mentor
Think about building a book of business
The first $100k is the hardest
$400k to $500k is easier
Build / maintain relationships
alumni/classmates
local bar

Final thoughts

Be honest with yourself and think in big picture terms as to whether you are in the right place

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Ingenuity
What habit has been key to your success: delusional level of confidence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Things
What would be listed first on the interest line of your resume: spending time with family
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird

Thanks again to Jim Chester for joining us on today's show!

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Reagan Riddle, partner and board certified family lawyer with Armstrong Divorce and Family Law in Dallas, is our guest on this week's show! Reagan talks about starting your own firm, finding a mentor, and how to not take losses personally.

Her firm/practice:

Started the new firm with partner Rebecca Armstrong two years ago
All family law
Wanted to create a different environment for employees and utilize technology
Currently all female law firm
Do things like bring in masseuses to give massages to everyone after a big trial
Modeled their firm almost more like a tech firm
Client-focused
Gotta have both the business-owner hat and the lawyer hat on all the time
If you are thinking about starting your own firm, you should do it!
Good to have a friend to do it with so you can ask each other questions, split the admin work, etc.
Family law hasn't slowed down over the past year; and things are even busier now
Courts did a pretty good job of clearing dockets using Zoom/Teams/etc.
saved clients money
hoping this continues post-pandemic
though nothing is settling right now
Dad's groups were pushing for the family code to switch to an equal possession schedule as the presumption for what was best for the child (HB 803 - died in committee)

Advice for lawyers in practice:

Find a mentor
helps you grow your own ability/skills
have someone to bounce ideas off of
great to have an outside perspective
key to have someone within your firm, though you could also have someone outside your firm
Jump in when given an opportunity, even if you don't feel ready
Don't take it personal when you don't get everything you want at trial or you feel like you've lost; you don't get to pick your facts and you have to try your best to put those in front of the court in the most effective way
Sometimes the judge won't agree, and there isn't anything you can do about it
She used to come home feeling defeated in those circumstances, but doesn't anymore and you shouldn't either!
(Reminds Daniel of the James Howard episode when we talked about this)
Show a desire to learn, get better, and grow; be hungry
Get involved in the community/charities/etc.
Can't get sucked into all of the emotion of the client; you have some level of empathy, but can't feel as though everything is happening to you. You can't help them if you are in the same emotional level as they are.

Advice for lawyers lateraling

demonstrating experience in the area
bouncing around from firm to firm is a red flag
this could me more of a family law issue; it makes them think you just don't like family law
you have to be personable and communicative; lots of time on the phone with clients and opposing counsel; can't be too shy/quiet
again this may be more family law-specific

Final thoughts

Don't miss out on the fun/joy of being an attorney
The opposing attorney is not an enemy; you will likely see them on multiple cases, at bar events, etc. so build/maintain those relationships

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait or characteristic you most want to see in an associate: eagerness to learn and participate / proactive
What habit has been key to your success: being good with people; talking/understanding
Favorite app/productivity tool: Remarkable
The first entry on the interest section of your resume: New mom so none! / Food (Go check out The Charles in Dallas!)
Favorite legal movie: The Rainmaker

Thanks again to Reagan Riddle for joining us on this week's show!

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Stephanie and I talk about the NCAA v. Alston Supreme Court decision, NIL, and what is ahead for college athletics.

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Judge Marilea Lewis joins us on today's show! Judge Lewis served on the Dallas bench for 25 years, and is now a partner at the family law boutique Duffee + Eitzen. Judge Lewis talks about the importance of preparation, how to impress a judge, and finding the right side of the confidence/arrogance line.

Her firm/practice

Board certified in family law (for 25 years)
Small boutique firm almost completely family law; the firm also does a little school law
Practices with her son Hunter Lewis
During the pandemic many people have spent more time together than usual, which hasn't always gone well
Waiting to see what the legislative changes are and the impact of the changes to the discovery rules
In the past, 194 disclosures and accompanying documents might have taken 60-90 days, but now having to do it within 30 days of the answer being filed is significant
Judges have adapted so easily to Zoom, which has been a big assist to the docketing system
In-person hearings are supposed to start soon, and in-person jury trials could begin again as early as July (though criminal cases will happen first)
Tarrant and Denton are a little ahead of that pace
Looking ahead, some judges are going to handle prove ups and short motions will continue to be done by Zoom
She has learned how to marshal the evidence and managed her time better

Advice for lawyers in practice

Preparation is key
she sees attorneys who aren't as prepared as they could be
sometimes that can be a financial issue, but there is still a level of prep required before heading into the courtroom
facts thoroughly fleshed out
The practice area and the law is always changing, so important to be aware of that
Need to be familiar with the current case law
If you argue something that has been reversed or refined, it doesn't impress anyone
Don't make frivolous arguments; make your best argument and then stop; if you have nothing to say then sit down!
Please don't argue with the court...."with all due respect your honor..."
Don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!
Important to get the court to rule. From there you can take steps as the attorney to mitigate, appeal, etc.
The best way to build a client base is through word of mouth (i.e. satisfied clients who refer you to someone else)
manage client expectations
advise client well
also getting involved in community and organizations and invest your time
When you are doing good work for clients you are doing business development

Advice for lawyers who are lateraling

Demonstrate people skills in your resume/cover letter; what have you been involved with?
Strong academics are great, but that's a very small percentage of people. So she wants to see someone who shows a commit to the area of practice, and learning that practice
She has seen strong letters from 5+ year attorneys who haven't practiced family law but communicate a clear change in direction
Family law is not an area most lawyers want to go in, so it is important to show that interest/desire. Great story from years ago about a firm partner who wanted to hire her into the firm to start their family law practice because she was a woman.
Be on time for a job interview!
Don't come into a full-time position interview wanting to work 20-30 hours.
It's okay to ask about policies in a general sense and expectations the firm has of their associates.
Be prepared to answer questions about why you should be a candidate for consideration.
Giving an indication that you might not stay very long is a red flag, and it also becomes apparent in the work product (leaving every day at 5:30 on the clock; don't volunteer to help out on a project; they are marking time; don't get involved in making decisions and contributing)

Final thoughts/words

There is a fine line between projecting confidence and being arrogant. Be on the side of confidence! Ask someone you trust to tell you the truth.
Everybody has something to offer; focus on your strength.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: honesty
What habit has been key to your success: tenacity
Favorite app/productivity tool: Zoom
The first item you would list on the interest section of your resume: Family and Dancing
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / Movie Verdicts episode

Thanks again to Judge Marilea Lewis for coming on the show!

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Colbie Campbell, construction lawyer and partner with Slates Harwell in Dallas, joins us on today's show! Colbie talks about lumber prices, the importance of being adaptable, and practicing in a niche area.

Her firm/practice

12-13 lawyer boutique construction law firm
founders came over from (Foley) Gardere in 2013
She has been with the same people for most of her practice
Clients are usually general contractors/owners/developers
Practice encompasses transactional AND litigation
Her practice is more litigation, though it can ebb/flow with how the industry is going (what is begin transacted versus what is being litigated)
She also does some intellectual property (IP) work with her clients
Major issue with her clients right now is the price escalation of materials (lumber in particular), which can cause problems with large differences between bid prices and actual cost.
Supply chain is also an issue, as builds happen in a sequence and major delays can result when components don't arrive on schedule
When these things happen, look to the contract! What's in there?! This happened last year with tariffs.
There are also a lot of conversations that happen between the GCs/subs/etc. to try and work things out when things happen out of either parties' control.
Going forward contracts will have language addressing pandemics, COVID, etc. to try to account for it up front. Including additional costs such as PPE in order to allow people to work safely.
Everyone had to become an employment lawyer in the past year.

Advice for lawyers in practice

Adaptability
She came out in 2008-09 during the recession, and was forced to adapt to a difficult environment and make herself valuable so she could keep her job.
Learning to work with different partners and partner personalities and styles
she worked with a micromanager and a delegator
Daniel refers to the Jered/Wendy episode talking about understanding each partner's approach
Managing expectations
Better to communicate and let others know if there is an issue, problem, delay. Strong communication with the partner enables strong communication with the client, which helps keep reality and expectations in line.
Get into the driver's seat for the development of your professional career
If there is a partner that you work well with, go ask for more work from them!
If there is a case you want to work on, go ask for it!
If there is a skill you want to develop, go ask for the opportunity to learn it!
Partners may say the door is always open, but that still means you as the associate need to go to them!
Daniel recalls prior advice of associates needing to go out and get work; don't sit in your office and wait for the work to come to you.
It's both important to make sure you get all your hours AND to pick the type of work you want!
It can be scary to go to a niche firm
Daniel talked about fear of getting pigeon-holed.
In construction law, you are learning how to litigate, so those skills are transferable. You just get extra knowledge in terms of how the construction industry works. That may not help you in another type of firm, but it won't hurt you.
You can take advantage of the opportunity to gain more experience earlier in your career in firms like this.
Their firm has a huge range of cases monetary value
Failure to communicate is the number one issue that associates need to focus on, and a place where they can get into trouble
it is one of the core values at their firm
when a mistake is made, trying to fix it before communicating can be a problem
if you see a legal issue that the team might be missing, raise it!

Advice for lawyers who are lateraling

Demonstrate construction law experience OR interest if you are going to a construction law firm (but this would apply to most/any niche areas)
Be prepared to talk through your various job changes, particularly if there are a lot of them. Usually not a deal breaker, but likely will raise questions. The interviewing firm doesn't want to simply be the next firm on your resume that you worked with for 6-12 months.
Also be careful with your explanations that you don't throw former employers under the bus; that doesn't usually go over well.
Small firms will often have a tight-knit, family-style culture. So interviewers will be looking for good fits for their culture.
Each firm will likely have some skills/experiences/credentials that are necessary (i.e. price of entry), but if the fit isn't there, the resume won't be able overcome it.

Final thought

She is passionate about mentorship, especially with women. Seek both a mentor and a sponsor. And when you can become a mentor or sponsor, pay it forward!
Mentor - helps you learn how to practice law
Sponsor - advocate/promote you in your career

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: integrity
What habit has been key to your success: organization and planning ahead
Favorite app/productivity tool: Coyote (timekeeping system)
The first bullet in the interests section of your resume: family
Favorite legal movie: Primal Fear; (Our Movie Verdicts deep dive episode)

Thanks again to Colbie Campbell for joining us on today's show!

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Wendy Larson and Jered Matthysse, "soft" IP lawyers with the Austin firm of Pirkey Barber, join us on today's show. They talk about NFTs, having enthusiasm for your work, and engaging with your law firm partners

Your firm/practice

Nearly 40 attorneys
Headquarters in Austin with another office in the Washington, D.C. area
Firm founded in 2006 based completely on trademark and copyright law, though it has since grown into other areas
New announcement soon on a new area...exciting!
Wendy and Jered have been there over a decade
Moved into a new office on the East side of Austin/I-35
all partner and associate offices are the same size
lots of glass to let in light
lots of meeting rooms
Hot topics in IP
NFTs (non-fungible tokens)
Their clients may want to get into it
Or someone might be infringing on their IP by creating NFTs of artwork depicting their products
NBA Top Shot
Gary Vaynerchuck / VeeFriends
Before joining the firm 15 years ago, Wendy was concerned that trademark and soft IP law was to niche and that she would be pigeonholing herself. But it is always changing, growing, adapting, and it has made for a fascinating practice area.
You don't need a hard science background to work in soft IP - Wendy was a psychology major!
That said, there are patent lawyers who practice soft IP
The best laterals usually have a few years of litigation experience, with an expertise in writing
There are some lawyers who do more counseling/transactional side while others do more of the litigation

COVID update (as of May 13, 2021)

First few months were one phase
Phase two, as people got used to it, moved on to using Zoom, etc.
Some clients have done well/better during the pandemic (grocery, delivery, etc.); others have struggled (restaurants, entertainment)
Didn't see a big drop in transactional work, but litigation did slow down
Remote work has certainly taken center-stage; will be with us after the pandemic
Opens up talent pool to folks outside of Austin

Advice for lawyers in practice

Understanding that all partners practice differently; there isn't one right or wrong way to practice
So learn how each partner practices
Emails? Interactions with clients?
Could be 180 degrees different from another partner
Lou Pirkey is one of the founding members of their firm and is awesome
He noticed a gap in the trademark law field (nationally) and suggested that Wendy become an expert in that area
It wasn't something she was interested in and she didn't feel quite ready to jump into something like that, but she still remembers that and wonders what might have been had she followed his advice!
He also encouraged her to take another lawyer (outside the firm) to lunch every week
Love what you do; partners notice! If you love it, you are much more likely to do a good job.
Take initiative; don't make the partner follow up with you all the time.
Don't make the same mistake multiple times; learn and improve! A mistake is okay, but if it continues to happen that is a bad sign. Makes the partner feel ignored and that they aren't being listened to.
Don't just take edits from a partner and implement them without thinking; engage with the edits and discuss them with the partner to make sure you are on the same page and there isn't something missing.
This doesn't mean you are pushing back on everything, but you are working through the material as a team. So if you disagree with the edit you should say so.
Goal is to refine and get to the best product; won't happen if the associate acts like a robot.
Definitely depends on the partner since they are all different.

Advice for lawyers looking to lateral

If the firm is interviewing you, that means they think you can do the work. So they are looking to figure out whether the candidate is a good fit with the firm and the rest of the attorneys.
They are looking for people who are kind, not mean, want a family life, and are excited about trademark law.
They want to make partners out of each person they hire, so that impacts the hiring decisions.

Final thoughts

Wendy made partner in her eighth year, has two kids, sits on the management committee, etc.
She is happy
She has hobbies
She spends time with her family
It can be done!
But not at every firm, so look around and see how the other lawyers live.
Leaders at law firms should take stock and see how their lawyers are doing and make adjustments to make their people's lives better.

Rapid fire questions (Jered / Wendy)

What trait do you most want to see in an associate: enthusiasm / joy
What habit has been key to your success: enthusiasm / relationships
Favorite app/tool: Slack / Slack
Favorite social distancing activity: Zoom Escape Game / painting from home on Zoom
Favorite legal movie: The Firm / Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Wendy Larson and Jered Matthysse for coming on the show!

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Michael Clinton, personal injury lawyer with Perdue & Kidd in Houston, joins us on today's show. Michael talks about utilizing various presentation mediums, the importance of volunteering, and how to prep for an interview.

His firm/practice

Broad spectrum of personal injury cases
one-off injury cases
medical malpractice
medical product/pharma/mass tort
Jim Perdue, Jr. is president of the Texas Trial Lawyer's Association (TTLA) and is active in Austin right now fighting for the rights of their clients in front of the Texas legislature

COVID update (as of May 13, 2021)

They were already taking depos by Zoom before COVID hit, and they generally are technologically advanced, so it was a fairly smooth transition when COVID required it
You have to be able to present material through a number of different mediums
They never wanted to be the reason a case slowed down
When using Zoom, slow down. Control your cadence. Think through how you are going to present exhibits to the witness; it might look different witness to witness.
Expect to continue using Zoom moving forward, though hopefully not for jury trials
Story about 14 person mediation by Zoom that settled in one day; without Zoom it could have taken much longer just to get 14 schedules aligned

Advice to lawyers in practice

Ability to take massive amounts of information and synthesize it, break it down, and teach it, is critical
since most of their clients have never gone through something like this before, and probably/hopefully never will again
Start now re: volunteering/community service. Michael volunteers with The Forge for Families
It's also an investment in your mental health; helps to deal with stress
Go to your Young Lawyers Association, Bar Association, Inn of Court, or your local law school to find ways to get involved and find a place to serve
If your firm won't give you the flexibility to volunteer, ask yourself if that's somewhere you want to work
Take initiative; don't wait for instruction; don't be afraid to fall on your face; confident; ask questions
Don't spend more than 10 minutes at your desk wondering what it is you should be doing or stuck on something
Observe and understand the firm culture and how partners expect their associates to work

Advice to lawyers in job seeking

Resume should be clean and organized; error free
What experience did you go get in law school or in practice? This matters as much or more than GPAs
Look at what the firm does, and look at what they've done recently.
Did they just get a big verdict? Reversal at the Supreme Court?
What do the lawyers do outside of work?
Be able to answer the question "why do you want to work here?" not just at this "type" of firm, but this specific firm with this specific group of people
He always asks "What do you want to get out of this?" in an interview.

Final Thoughts

Big Brothers/Big Sisters volunteers professional board is an option for volunteering; don't have to be a mentor but can still serve and support the work they do. Email Michael
"Stress" is good when it is managed appropriately, so do the things required to manage it (physical fitness, volunteering, etc.)

Rapid Fire

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: taking initiative
What habit has been key to your success: time management
Favorite app/tool: calendar
Favorite pen: Pilot V5
Favorite social distancing activity: golf
Favorite legal movie: A Few Good Men

Thanks again to Michael Clinton for joining us on today's show!

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Charlie Roadman, partner with Roadman & Espiritu in Austin, joins us on today's show! Charlie talks about overcommunicating with your clients, the importance of empathy, and taking advantage of tools and technology.

His firm/practice

Criminal defense attorney for nearly 20 years
Focuses on DWIs/misdemeanors; 3rd degree felonies and down
New DA and County Attorney in Travis County; ran on fairly progressive ideas and they have been implementing those things
more pretrial diversion programs
County Atty handles misdemeanors and the DA handles felonies
In surrounding counties (usually smaller) the DA handles both

COVID update - as of May 13, 2021)

Travis County has 13 criminal courtrooms, and right now they are still down at just one
Went from 600-700 people in the courthouse every day to 30
Without court dates to bring together the defendants and their counsel, it is much harder to stay in touch with their clients
We're always three months out from reopening the courthouse
juries are the biggest issue
plans to do voir dire in a large venue
People have still been getting arrested steadily; biggest difference has been its much easier now to get a court-appointed attorney (courts aren't concerned about the proof of inability to pay)

Advice for lawyers in practice

Do the things that the client has to do yourself
He takes the classes that the clients are going to have to take
Helps him explain/educate the client better
Reduces the anxiety of the client and they are more likely to do it
Put yourself in the client's shoes; have empathy for them
Clients face a variety of obstacles; get to know what those are and figure out how to solve that problem.
Don't wait for something substantive to happen to communicate with your client. Overcommunicate. Let them know you are thinking about them, their case, etc. If nothing else, it let's them know you are working on their case.
Even if there isn't anything they necessarily need to know.
When a client hires Charlie's firm, he begins sending them a 20 email sequence that is essentially life coaching material with podcast recommendations, book recommendations, etc.
Make sure you are comfortable with the new digital tools that are available; continue getting educated
VR and 360 photos are going to be commonplace soon.
He has gotten several cases dismissed after showing the prosecutors a headset with a 360 photo that helps their case

Advice for lawyers in the job search

Interest section is important!
Helps to identify team compatibility
Most helpful if it is something specific/unique
Tailor your materials to the job!
Example of candidate who had found his favorite movie and included a quote from the movie in a cover letter

On his book The Defendant's Guide to Defense - How to Help Your Lawyer Get the Best Result (Misdemeanor Edition)

Inspired by Gretchen Rubin's four tendencies/types of people
Upholder - follows internal AND external rules
Obligers - follow external rules BUT not necessarily internal rules
Questioners - won't do something unless they know why
Rebels - will do what they want
Lots of Questioners in criminal defense
As soon as he explains why the clients need to do something, it gets a lot easier

Rapid fire questions:

Name one characteristic you most want to see in an associate: problem solving
What habit has been key to your success: finding ways to be creative in explaining things
Favorite app/productivity tool: Mindmaps / iThoughts
Favorite pen: Macbook Air
Favorite social distancing activity: driving around with his teen daughter listening to music
Favorite legal movie: Trial of the Chicago Seven

Thanks again to Charlie Roadman for joining us on the show!

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Danielle Ahlrich, partner and tax litigator with Reed Smith in Austin, joins us on todays show! Danielle talks about going from a boutique to Big Law, understanding how your piece of the puzzle fits, and how the next generation of leaders thinks about work-life balance.

Her firm/practice

Partner at Reed Smith in Austin; international law firm that does everything on the civil side
2000 lawyers
She is in their state tax group for Texas
Helping businesses with Texas sales and franchise tax matters
If a business is under audit
To prevent an audit
Sales tax is over 50% of Texas' budget
Shoutout to Amanda Taylor (listen to her episode here!) who helped her get a position in a boutique state tax litigation law firm after spending some time in state government
The practice is heavy on statutory construction, not as much on actual taxation/math as one might assume (if you are on the controversy side as she is)
Allows her to practice at the trial court level all the way up to the Texas Supreme Court
She doesn't even do her own taxes!
Joined Reed Smith in January after being at a boutique, which is the opposite of what most people do
She wanted to grow and have some larger opportunities with companies who have tax issues all over the country as opposed to just in Texas
The reality is most large companies choose to use large law firms
The pandemic gave her the clarity, space, and courage to make the move.
No straight career line that is the same for each lawyer
Reed Smith operates much more through practice groups, so she reports up through the state tax group which is located in other offices as opposed to Austin.
Which means Austin colleagues are in a variety of practice areas

COVID update (As of 5/5/21)

Travis County has been doing a LOT of things remotely and keeping cases moving
Reed Smith is putting together a new policy regarding how we work post-COVID.
Expects there to be a mix of in-office time and remote time
Will be an office to office question

Advice for lawyers in practice

Is the associate trying to understand how/where this assignment fits into the larger case / how their piece fits into the larger puzzle
Much more likely to get back a work product that is plug and play (e.g. drop their work into the motion/brief)
The result will be a better refinement of the research and/or a more direct application
Example: if estoppel is raised, she doesn't need a primer on estoppel, she needs to know how it applies here.
Take ownership of cases and be mindful of what is coming next
THE due date is not YOUR due date! The partner may need to review/revise; clients may need to approve or provide feedback, etc. before the submission/due date.
(Jennie Knapp talked about this as well!)

Advice for lawyers in the job hunt

Start right now to build a network; curate people in your life who will help you achieve your goals and/or make you a better person
Mother Attorney Mentor Association (MAMAs) - active Facebook page that is helpful on so many issues.
Practical
Keep a master list of where you've been and what you've been doing. Good for a conflicts check too. Can be used to construct your resume as well as supplemental materials such as a list of representative cases or deals, presentations, papers, etc.
Keep a brag book with kudos or thank yous from colleagues, clients, etc.

On work-life balance

Have a big-picture focus. Don't look at it daily or weekly. Some days and weeks won't be balanced. Monthly or yearly is more realistic.
Need to get rid of the toxic work culture that doesn't have any boundaries; it needs to come from firm leadership. Optimistic a new generation of leaders will have success making these changes.
"A boundary is a place from which I can love both you and me simultaneously." - Prentis Hemphill
Choose a position and role that allows you to do the work you want while balancing the other parts of life according to your values.
Example about whether or not vacation time is real in a specific firm.

Rapid fire questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: coachable
What habit has been key to your success? calendaring deadlines when they come in and always setting up a two week reminder
Favorite app/tool: N/A
Favorite pen: Pilot G2 1.0 / blue (no fine points where you are chiseling in stone; need some glide!)
Favorite social distancing activity: 5am walks in the dark with a podcast
Favorite legal movie: A Time To Kill (also loves My Cousin Vinny and Legally Blonde)

Thanks again to Danielle Ahlrich for joining us on today's show!

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Robert and Daniel talk through race, justice, children, do no harm, innocence, and more in this deep dive of an all-time literary and movie classic.

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Jeff Domen joins us on today's show! Jeff is a shareholder and family lawyer at GoransonBain Ausley in Plano. Jeff talks about being a creative problem solver, differentiating yourself in an interview, and the importance of finding a mentor.

His firm/practice:

Family law boutique
Three offices in Plano, Dallas, and Austin
28 lawyers and staff
Always looking for creative options to resolve conflict; if it can be done without litigation...great! If not, we'll go to the courthouse. Important to be able to do both.
Family law deals with a wide variety of legal issues
real estate/property
contract
probate
business
Loves working with individuals in a one-on-one relationship and help them through difficult circumstances
Clientele has bene changing and wanting more for less
days of lavish law firms with big/expensive offices and spaces are going to be a thing of the past
People are used to getting information fast, and they want that from their lawyer
Competition with family law court forms, Legal Zoom(s), etc.: need to be able to address it
COVID was an accelerator of the flex/remote work

COVID Update (April 21, 2021)

Most people are caught up with doing most things by Zoom
And now some courts are starting up to open up
Opportunity to still get in front of a judge and have conflicts addressed with less cost and time
No Plano jury trials still so we don't yet know what that will look like
He was very comfortable in the courtroom, so moving it all online with tech was difficult
needs to have an associate/paralegal/clerk with him so they could handle the docs and evidence in the technology
This is an opportunity for you to add value to places where you're going to go and work; be the expert on the tech!

Advice for lawyers in practice

First boss told him about a great associate: come to the law firm hat in hand willing to do whatever it takes. Willing to do a great job and to help make the law firm/partner money.
Don't display a chip on the shoulder or sense of entitlement
Don't try and be anybody other than who you are, because whoever you are, you are going to do that better than everybody else
This will also help you in business development
He is active in his church and involved with his kids' schools
More business development
You can sometimes help with your work/life balance by finding things you can bring your spouse/significant other to
This also can help with the business development because your spouses can connect with people that maybe you can't!
Grabbing a friend to go to an event is almost always better than going alone; so many benefits
If you aren't getting your hours because you aren't busy, go ask the partner for work
Break down your hourly goals for the month/year into daily goals

Advice for lawyers seeking a new job

Lawyers/partners hate the hiring process; feels like a time suck
Be different from everyone else
Walk into an interview like you own the place (not cocky), in the sense that the partner can be confident they can hand a case to you and it will get taken care of
He has never had someone come up to the firm and ask to drop off a resume in person and say hi for two minutes. That would be something. Guaranteed interview.
Shows they really want to do this.
Motivated
Do what it takes to get the job done.
He can tell when a cover letter is a form letter; do a specific one!

Final thoughts

Get a mentor. Doesn't have to be at your firm, but it needs to be someone you trust.
There's a balance between asking questions and asking GOOD questions
Set up a time with your mentor each week/month to ask these questions
Do research yourself before asking questions

Rapid fire questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: hard working
What habit has been key to your success:
Favorite app/legal software: Centerbase
Favorite pen: Arteza / blue felt tip
Favorite social distancing activity: Hunting
Favorite legal movie: I Am Sam

Thanks again to Jeff Domen for joining us on today's show!

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Alex Bell joins us on today's show! Alex is a Senior Attorney with MacDonald Devin in Dallas, and he talks about going from criminal law to civil law, how you are always doing business development, and what adding numbers to your resume can do for you.

His firm/practice

General/full-service defense firm
His group focuses on defending architects and engineers, and working on construction projects
Could be litigation re: professional liability or contracts with acquisitions
Started his career in D.A.'s office in McLennan County/Waco
Got into the courtroom and got trial experience right away
Doesn't pay like the civil side obviously (but better hours and more days off)
Gives you the experience of living out of the courtroom
Started trying cases within weeks of starting there; always in front of the judges and work closely with the criminal defense bar, so helps you develop relationships and soft skills in handling cases
When he wanted to return home to Dallas, he found an opportunity with Fletcher Farley who has a lot of former DAs
Much of the construction world has experienced a COVID slowdown, and that impacts his clients
safety best practices
dealing with project delays
counseling clients on the front-end in hopes of avoiding litigation
Should employees be required by their employer to be vaccinated before returning to in-person work? What does that policy look like?

COVID Update (April 7, 2021)

In the past month or two he has had two in-person depositions, which felt strange
Will still lots of Zoom hearings/depos/etc.
Some hope that jury trials are on their way back
For the past year, it's basically been a full-stop except for some small cases
Harris County starting jury selections soon
Hoping to be back completely at the start of 2022
Need to keep jurors safe
Once everything is back, it will probably be a case by case decision re: whether to do in-person v Zoom depos
He likes Zoom depos; forces you to be organized; ensures everyone is looking at the same exhibit when it is being discussed
How can we incorporate those benefits into an in-person environment?
Why fly and stay overnight for a one hour depo? Probably won't make sense moving forward.
Hopes judges will keep Zoom in place for quick hearings too.

Advice for lawyers in practice

Understand how the task you are working on fits into the bigger picture
Look backwards; how are the questions I am asking in this depo going to fit with what we want to prove at trial? What do they and we need to prove, and how can I get what I need out of this depo?
Over time, you should learn how to do a bundle of tasks and how to lead others to help if it's a multi-person task; have to know how everything fits together for this to work.
Helps to have insatiable curiosity, which might mean knowing the file inside and out (the entire file not just what you are working on) as well as asking colleagues and partners about the case, strategy, etc.
Ask the person who assigned you a task what the purpose/strategy is behind it
Ask to go sit in on a hearing/depo
There is even more importance now on the written work product
It is how you make a first impression
With COVID judges are limiting hearings, etc. and instead are making decisions based on submission
Helps to develop a strong reputation
How you address errors/mistakes is important; credibility on the line
Know what judges like
one judge likes to receive notebooks with everything in in; so that's what he does when they have that judge
Re: business development: you are doing it all the time, whether you think you are or not
business development is nothing more than building relationships and your reputation
comes from colleagues, opposing counsel, classmates, insurance adjusters/managers

Advice for lawyers in the job hunt

Looks for relatable work experience
How much experience do you have doing the things you'll be doing here?
Sometimes this gets glossed over
If you had a short stint at a law firm or have moved around a lot, be prepared to address it
Can the candidate communicate the skills they have rather than the area they have been practicing in?
Skills can transfer from one area to another!
Subject matter area can often be learned
Include quantities on your resume
Provides specificity to the experience
Good advocacy on behalf of the candidate
Shows organization and that you keep track of the work you've done
Be accurate and err on the low side

Final Thoughts

Find something that you enjoy spending your time doing. If you aren't happy, find something else to do. Keep looking.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: curiosity
What habit has been key to your success: consistency/organization
Favorite legal app/software: Trialpad Suite
Favorite pen: Pilot Precision Precise V7
Favorite social distancing activity: walks around the neighborhood
Favorite legal movie: The Rainmaker

Thanks so much to Alex Bell for joining us on today's show!

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Josh White, civil litigator focused on construction and business law and shareholder with Haley & Olson in Waco, joins us on today's show! Josh talks about the importance of in-person justice, being proactive, and preparing well for an interview.

His firm/practice

Construction law
Board certified
very difficult exam
hefty application process
good references
what % of your practice do you devote to construction (so lots of reviewing time sheets!)
Mostly litigation
Reviews/drafts contracts
Loves the construction law section in the Texas Bar
mentors
collegiality
conference
High-growth area
Also does business litigation
closely held company shareholder disputes
trade secret cases
Will also do some civil rights defense
The firm also does
banking
county/city government representation (Charlie Olson heads this up)
The Haley is after Judge Haley and the Olson is after Lyndon Olson, Sr., who was responsible for the one person / one vote case.
Waco/McLennan County Bar
collegial
not too big to where you don't know all the people
can fit the bar conference into a reasonable space
Several of his classmates ended up in Waco
Great location to practice in, as well as to get to the other cities in Texas; accessibility to all

COVID UPDATE (as of March 24, 2021)

COVID got real at last year's construction law conference
first elbow bump
Texas Supreme Court Emergency Orders
gave lots of discretion to judges, who could modify serious deadlines
As a profession we are problem solvers, so that was called upon during COVID
He is in charge of his firm's technology, so it presented a special challenge for him to get everyone, most especially the staff, able to access everything remote
Vendors did a great job working with him
Remote work/lawyering functions just fine in a lot of ways
But it's still hard on camaraderie when you have to be remote or in the office but with closed doors
Things that are here to stay:
Zoom meetings and minor hearings (especially those that just require the judge)
Especially true as the courts dig out of a backlog of cases
Zoom mediations though not as effective
Zoom depositions as an option
Optimistic about in-person jury trials with the proper precautions
Important
The rule of law and justice system is set up the way it is for a reason
Courthouses sit in the middle of town and have/are symbols
Judge and jury are elevated
Judge wears a robe
These are just traditions; they are supposed to impress upon us the things that hold society together
Cat case - paper from the client's house had a distinct smell; how do you do that by Zoom?
Tasting/smelling/perception
But Zoom is not the same
Can't look people in the eye
Can't process non-verbal communication the same way
8k resolution is nothing compared to what we enjoy every day in real life with our normal/natural side
The law is resilient and creative; and we are a problem solving profession

Advice for lawyers in practice

Good attitude
Willingness to work / pitch in
Affirmatively go around and look for work
Be proactive and take ownership of your career
Stay hungry/curious/passionate
If you aren't able to do that, you need to make a change

Advice for lawyers in the job hunt

He has handled the summer clerk program for years and can speak to this
If a candidate's questions indicate they have done their homework, that's a great start
Don't go in talking about practice areas the firm doesn't do
Show a willingness to be a go-to person for awhile even if it isn't the thing you want to do most
Combine a short-term/realistic understanding of the role with your long-term career goals

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: work ethic/self-assurance
What habit has been key to your success: Mentorship
Favorite app/productivity tool: Things (Mac App); Evernote; Timeline3D (BDocs)
Favorite pen: Energel Liquid Gel Ink; Uniball Signo (good for signatures); Matthew Budderick's Topography for Lawyers
Favorite social distancing activity: Virtual Concerts (Andrea Bocelli)
Favorite legal movie: The Verdict

Thanks again to Josh White for joining us on today's show!

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Brandon Waddell, construction lawyer and managing shareholder at Waddell Serafino in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Brandon talks about representing design professionals, your one reputation, and the importance of integrity.

His firm/practice

Represents design professionals (architects, engineers, etc.) from the start of a project (contract drafting) to litigation matters pertaining to professional liability
Brand new offices with lots of collaboration space and a massive coffee bar.
Hot button topic right now is the doctrine that allows contractors to be liable for the conduct of design professionals. Texas is the only one that has it, and a current senate bill 219 could do away with it.

COVID update (as of March 24, 2021)

Fortunate to have a high-tech firm that was already virtually paperless
Tough to replace site visits for investigations but have adapted with technology

Advice for lawyers in practice

You have one reputation
Try to think if you were the shareholder, how would you want an associate to handle this project
Don't come in and say "what do you think about these legal issues," instead say "Here is what I think about these four legal issues and the strategy I think we should implement to address them."
Be proactive
Be a professional; get your work done whenever/however
If you mess something up, tell someone. Don't try to hide it. It's an integrity issue. Perfection isn't the standard.
Take advantage of the collective wisdom of your colleagues

Advice for lawyers on the job search

In his practice, you are going to have to learn architecture, engineering, etc., so he looks for people who are learners
Just because you graduated law school doesn't mean you are done learning
If you love the Discovery channel, great, because that's 50% of the practice
Integrity; looking for people who are true to themselves and true to the firm
Looking for a good fit; it's a family at their firm
He is the first one to talk in interviews, and he tells candidates they should be interviewing him as much as anything else. He wants candidates to know exactly what the job is and what they are in for.
Candidates should feel comfortable they are going to enjoy the work and enjoy the people
He is going to be selling his firm and practice to the candidate, but ultimately the candidate needs be honest with themselves about whether they are qualified and a good fit. You can fake your way through an interview, but you can't fake your way through a job
People need to have a passion for the work
Before taking an offer, talk to people in the industry who know you and see if they think you would be a good fit with a firm.

Rapid fire questions:

Name one trait or characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Integrity
What habit has been key to your success: Diligence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Spotify
Favorite pen: Pilot Precise V5 (extra fine for marking up plans)
Favorite social distancing activity: playing with his kids
Favorite legal movie: The Firm

Thanks again to Brandon Waddell for joining us on today's show!

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Andy Jones, Plaintiff's personal injury lawyer with Sawicki Law in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Andy talks about the PI practice, the no-jerk rule, getting involved in orgs, and being a person not a billing unit.

His firm/practice:

Plaintiff's personal injury trial lawyer
Located in Dallas but go all over the state
Wrongful death / catastrophic injury / medical malpractice
Just rated AV Preeminent by Martindale Hubble
Issues in their practice area
North Cyprus issue - discovery that defense attorney can get into with what the facility is charging other parties; paid v. incurred; Heygood v. Escavedo case
Changes in civil procedure rules that essentially federalizes them
initial disclosures
experts
expedited action
conflicts with Civil Practice & Remedies Code
Getting into plaintiff's practice
Eat what you kill, which doesn't lend itself to larger firms
Lots of senior lawyers in the area who are in their golden years and looking for the next generation to turn the practice over to
Network and find those you have good personality connections with
Story about finding client's shoes while investigating a helicopter accident; makes it real; there's a gravity to it you have to be able to handle
Can't personalize it to yourself. You can't picture your wife in the hospital bed laying down. That gets too deep. Shouldn't engage in "that could have been me" thoughts. Keeping a professional distance is important; that's what the client is hiring you for...objectivity.

COVID UPDATE (as of March 17, 2021)

Tech support for clients
Lots of depos/hearings/mediations via Zoom; hopefully much of that will stay once in-person returns
Judges like being able to dispose of five motions to compel before 9am
Concern about trials though; need to be in person.

Advice for lawyers in practice

Andy keeps a list of lessons (email him to see it!)
There is no problem you can't fix by talking about it
You can't borrow trouble; don't think about how bad things could be; deal with where you are; focus on the road not the wall (car racing)
Don't be an a-hole.
goes for firms too; associates don't want to work for jerks
Don't say no; first rule of improv; say yes
Joining groups/clubs/organizations
be part of something bigger than yourself
Jim Wren said so!
There are multiple groups in each of the major cities; find one that suits you
Bring a friend
Have a purpose (professional development? social? could be anything)
Have a question prepped to jumpstart the conversation.

Advice for lawyers seeking a job

Confidence + competence
In a small firm, you are going to be doing the work; there isn't a team of lawyers...it's you! So can the firm trust you to talk to clients, go to the courthouse, get access to records/Westlaw, etc.
Find a way to be valuable
Be a person; firms like his aren't looking for a fungible billing unit

Rapid Fire Questions:

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: loyalty
What habit has been key to your success: list making / calendar entries
Favorite app/productivity tool: iCal
Favorite social distancing activity: facetime phone call with someone you have never seen in person before
Favorite legal movie: Breaker Morant

Thanks again to Andy Jones for joining us on the show!

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Jovana Popovich, Shareholder and Estate Planning Lawyer at Fizer Beck in Houston, joins us on today's show! Jovana talks about getting into estate planning, not sacrificing quality for speed, and the need for small firms to find a good fit.

Her Firm/Practice

Estate planning boutique. Estate planning/estate administration for high net worth individuals. The firm also has a real estate group, M&A/corporate group, and non-profit group.
She fell into the practice. In law school realized she didn't want to do litigation or Big Law. She wanted to interact more with people. Thought at first she might do family law. But later had coffee with a friend of friend who did estate planning. That friend happened to be at Fizer Beck and led to a research internship while in law school. She then took the estate planning classes at UT and wound up clerking and then ultimately getting hired by Fizer Beck.
Estate tax exemption amount is always in flux, which means there is always new planning to do. And the question is always when the exemption is going to change and by how much.
This also yields more income tax planning.
Reminder that in 2010 we had zero estate tax! Check out George Steinbrenner.
For those interested in estate planning, think about whether you like tax work, because estate planning is very tax-heavy. Then find a place to gain experience in tax if you can't get immediately into estate planning. Even corporate work can translate.

COVID Update (as of 3/4/21)

In the beginning, couldn't execute estate plans since it requires original ink signature, witnesses, notary, etc. all in line of sight. So how to do that while keeping everyone safe?
Major difference is that all questions have to be answered before the execution ceremony. Pre-covid there would be a pre-execution meeting that could last 30-45 minutes and could lead to tweaks/changes in the plan. But now that all has to be done in advance of the ceremony.
When it comes to wills and financial powers of attorney, no appetite from legislature to move to e-signatures.

Advice for lawyers in practice:

If you send a document to a client, they aren't going to know whether the law is right/wrong, but they are going to notice if their name is misspelled or there is a typo. So attention to detail is really important.
Know your own faults and figure out how to fix them
Hard for high achievers to fail, but you will. And that's okay. You don't have to be perfect. Job in the first three years is to learn, and give a work product to the partner who can make some minor changes and then send it on to the client.
Don't be in such a hurry that you turn in a sloppy product. Go as fast as you can while still turning in an error-free product.
Write an issues list and then ask your partner which should be explored.
Be a self-starter. May not know something but will go and try to figure it out and get as far as they can before asking for help. This helps give them context for a more productive conversation with the partner. Take the initiative to learn.
Don't come in and ask "how does this work?" instead say "I think this is how this works; is that right? Am I missing something?"

Advice for lawyers interviewing for jobs

Don't have any typos in your documents
For them, having tax experience looks good
They are a small firm (18 lawyers), so you need to be sociable and able to get along with people. They are friendly and collaborative. Interests/hobbies/etc. are important. Want to see you are a good fit.
Also want to see the person has a connection/strong desire to be in Houston long term. It takes effort to train
"My boyfriend is getting a job in Houston so I want to be in Houston"...is not a great answer. What if the guy moves to another city?
There can be a big firm (don't really care) / small firm (do really care) dynamic here.

On Business Development

Work at a firm with a long history where the clients are built in!
Find out who your best referral sources are and build those relationships (for them it is CPAs and financial advisors)
Speak at CLEs; get on webcasts with referral sources

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: detail oriented
What habit has been key to your success: keep your time as you go
Favorite app/productivity tool: timekeeping software
Favorite social distancing activity: socially distanced picnic in the park with dog/friends
Favorite legal movie: Paper Chase and Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Jovana Popovich for joining us on the show!

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Morgan McPheeters, appellate lawyer with her own firm McPheeters Law in Dallas, joins us on today's show! Morgan talks about launching her own firm, appellate law in the trial court, and Hamilton as a legal movie.

Her firm/practice:

Appellate lawyer in Dallas who works all over the state
Civil appeals
Usually plaintiffs in PI cases
In COA and TX Supreme Court
Also works with trial lawyers during the trial to help preserve errors, draft jury charges, etc.
Especially in more complex cases
Can't appeal anything that wasn't preserved at trial, so the trial court is critical
Helps to allow lawyers to focus on their strengths and priorities while having an appellate lawyer to take care of that part
Most trial lawyers are men and white, though it hasn't been much of an issue. They have trusted her fully. It is scary for others, anyone, to rely on you to get it right as the "book lawyer."
It's okay to not always have the answer in your head; your role is to find the answer.
On starting her own firm
As an appellate lawyer, she only needs wi-fi, a laptop, and Westlaw, so it was fairly easy to go out on her own.
If you are a PI lawyer, that's harder since you have to finance the litigation.
Her prior firm gave her great experience. The culture was "if you brief it, you argue it."
There's never the "perfect" time to start a firm/business. It will always be scary and there will always be challenges.

COVID Update (As of 3/3/21)

Courts of Appeals have done a great job adapting
You can always write/file briefs, so her work hasn't been as impacted
Oral advocacy by Zoom is different
She has had two Texas Supreme Court arguments over Zoom; wifi issues each time
In real life, you can read the room and figure out when one of the justices is going to ask you a questions; harder on Zoom
Appreciates the efficiency and accessibility Zoom has provided
Obligatory cat lawyer reference

Advice for practicing lawyers

Feedback on your writing/advocacy is a gift
Your first draft should look like you killed a chicken on it (red everywhere); this can be hard to take but it is a gift and you should learn from it and improve
The business of the practice of law is different and something you don't learn in law school, and the sooner you learn about it the better
Learning when to say no to new business is a challenge, but sometimes it is the best answer

Advice for lawyers in practice

Have a strong work ethic
Make yourself indispensable or a go-to person for something (practice area; admin)
Getting involved in organizations relevant to your/firm practice that can lead to new clients
Don't be afraid of getting pigeonholed

Advice for lawyers looking for jobs

For her, she would prioritize people who show strong advocacy and writing skills
Don't have to be at the top of the class
Be a lifelong learner; respond to feedback/criticism

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one/trait characteristic you most want to see in an associate: lifelong learner
Habit that is key to your success: to do lists
Favorite app/productivity tool: Calm app
Favorite social distancing activity: sewing/costuming
Favorite legal movie: Hamilton (the other 51 / why do you write like you're running out of time?)

Thanks again to Morgan McPheeters for joining us on the show!

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Daniel Hare is the founder and president of Varsity Search, a legal recruiting company dedicated to building great teams by bringing together lawyers and law firms. In this episode, Daniel has curated some of the most mentioned tips from guests over the past year.

Standing Out In Your Firm

Take ownership / Think through next steps / etc.
Turn in work that is ready to file (no first drafts!)
Accept/learn from feedback and constructive criticism
Ask for work; don’t sit back and wait for it to be assigned
Always be prepared
Take care of your mental health

When sending out resumes/interviewing/looking to move

Stay in your current job as long as you can
Stay in touch with classmates and build new relationships authentically
The basics: no typos, grammatical mistakes, addressing to the correct firm, etc.
Ask great questions / prepare / demonstrate sincere interest in the position
The human factor (interests, connection, fun to be around)

Productivity Tools

Centerbase or Intapp - timekeeping apps
Slack
Soulver (Apple only) - quick math (dates, money, back of envelope)
Nextpoint - ediscovery
Notability / Smart Apps for Lawyers

Favorite Movies (# of guests who mentioned it)

My Cousin Vinny - 10
Legally Blonde - 7
A Few Good Men - 7
To Kill A Mockingbird - 4
The Firm - 3
Erin Brockovich - 2
The Verdict - 2
A Civil Action - 2
The Devil’s Advocate - 1
The Pelican Brief - 1
The Lincoln Lawyer - 1
The Exorcism of Emily Rose - 1
Runaway Jury - 1
Just Mercy - 1
Breaker Morant - 1
Bridge of Spies - 1
Intolerable Cruelty - 1
12 Angry Men - 1
Liar, Liar - 1
The Paper Chase - 1
The Informant - 1
Knives Out - 1

You can go to Daniel's Linkedin Poll to vote for which movie he and Robert Callahan will feature on the next Movie Verdicts episode! You can also go back and review all the Movie Verdicts episodes we have already done here.

Thanks to Daniel Hare for doing the show solo today!

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Keith Jaasma, managing shareholder and intellectual property litigator at Ewing & Jones in Houston, joins us on today's show! Keith talks about practicing IP law without a technical background, avoiding analysis paralysis, and standing out through your cover letter.

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Josh Hedrick, high-stakes litigator and founding partner Hedrick Kring in Dallas, is our guest on today's show. Josh talks about adapting to Zoom, not faking it until you make it, and asking great questions in a job interview.

His firm/practice

Just opened an office in Houston
Business litigation firm focused on trials and trial practice, so it is a broad spectrum
Business divorces
Breach of contract
departing employee / non-compete
securities
class action

COVID Update (as of 1/28/21)

Impacted everyone in the legal industry
Wife is an ER physician so he had a bit of a heads up, and got out ahead of things
Some clients have been impacted terribly; others not as much
Forced us to learn new tools/technology; had never heard of Zoom a year ago
Advocacy is different in person v. telephone v. video
Can't just do what you would normally do; have to figure out how to present it via Zoom in an effective way
Have to make sure everything is lined up and ready to go
Ensure the right environment around where the hearing is taking place (signs on the doors/windows to keep everyone quiet)
Upgrade audio/visual/background
Some changes are here to stay
Depositions (non-central) by Zoom
Some hearings as well

Advice to lawyers in practice

Anything worth doing is worth doing right
Learn why you are doing it, how it fits into the case, how to do it well, and over time how to master it
Have a sense for law as a business
Being a lawyer is a profession and a calling, but
You need to understand how legal advice fits into business decisions and how the business side works
Usually something you learn over time; how each element of the practice is cost-effective for the client
On business development:
Before a lawyer can effectively develop business, you have to master the competencies of being a lawyer
Once you've done that, then you can start thinking about marketing/promoting/selling your services
While developing as a lawyer, maintain your network and surround yourself with people that you like and enjoy visiting with.
This will not only help you eventually when developing business, but also just helpful as a growing lawyer in general
Doing these things will put you in a good place to develop business.
Some elements are unique to practice areas.
On ways to stand out:
Skill
Strong writer
Advocate
Will
Easiest to evaluate
Work ethic, curiosity, motivation, desire, diligence, coachable, desire to learn
Don't have to be a brilliant legal scholar to ask questions
Biggest mistakes associates make
Not asking questions
Fake it 'til you make it is BAD advice
Associates are sometimes afraid to ask questions; don't be!

Advice to lawyers who are job seeking

Always hard to look at just the paper
As trial lawyers, big fans of mock trial and moot court
If not long out of law school, grades are still important
The longer a candidate is out of law school, the more their experience matters and the academics don't as much.
Looking for those who are at competitor/peer firms since that is the most translatable experience
Likes to see people who enjoy competition and succeeding
athletes, etc.
By the time a candidate reaches the interview stage, on paper they look like a good fit
What kind of questions does the candidate ask?
If they don't ask questions, it's a bad sign
Do more than surface-level research

Rapid Fire Questions

Name the one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: diligence
What habit has been key to your success: persistence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Slack
Favorite social distancing activity: Spending time with kids
Favorite legal movie: 12 Angry Men

Thanks again to Josh Hedrick for joining us on today's show!

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Gwen Walraven, a litigator and partner at Bell, Nunnally & Martin in Dallas, is today's guest. Gwen talks about the positives of remote hearings, the practice of law, and putting those interests on resumes.

Her firm/practice

Went to Bell Nunnally straight out of law school and has grown up in the firm and become partner
General commercial business litigator. Does a lot of creditor's rights and probate work, business divorces (LAUGH AT 1:20 THAT I NEED TO EDIT OUT OR ADD MY OWN IN)
They are full-service to provide nearly all of a businesses' legal needs

COVID update (as of 1/28/21)

Firm has been at the forefront of being back in the office and open since May 2020 (not mandated/required); most of the partners like to work in the office, so they have taken advantage of being 50% in the office to adhere to the governor's orders
Lots of plexiglass in the office to protect people; temperature checks; other protocols
Clients have been asking lots of questions about how they can open back up, protect employees, etc.
With economic downturn there are always breaches of contracts, leases, as well as force majeure litigation
Firm has continued to be busy, and they have hired five new lawyers during the past year
She hasn't been back in the courthouse since last year, and every hearing, etc. has been online
There is a time/place for remote hearings and they aren't all bad
Wouldn't want to try a case, or do all hearings that way, but it can give younger lawyers the chance to be more involved (no extra expense of travel/wasted time)
Stories from virtual hearings (judge not turning on his video/black box only; getting sworn in to attest to information being shared on screen to save time/money)
Foreclosure suspensions have an impact; bankruptcy is a wild ride

Advice for lawyers in practice

It is called the "practice of law" for a reason; it is always evolving/changing. You will make mistakes, and when you do, don't hide it/bury it. Come up with a plan to fix it and don't do anything until you tell the partner what the mistake was and your plan to fix it.
There are very few things in law you can't fix (except perhaps statute of limitations).
The practice of law is hard, and so young lawyers need to show enthusiasm and devotion to it.
It's not about a big personality. Follow up on emails. Don't wait to be told to do the next steps if you know what they are.
Ghosting on email is a bad plan - it sends a signal that the sender is not important. Even responding that you received the message and will get back with them soon is better than not responding.
The best associates are the ones who, when the partner wakes up in the night thinking about a client matter, realizes that the associate is working on it, and can go right back to sleep.
Email is the main source of communication and its important for archiving, etc. But they are finding that texting is a useful way to ping/remind people of things, even to say that there is an email to respond to

Advice for lawyers who are job seeking

Keep resumes to one page if at all possible; they see so many resumes there isn't time to read multi-page resumes
Law school still matters if it is someone who has only been out a couple of years
Cover letters can help highlighting the real stuff you've done
She loves to see interests/hobbies; wants to know you are a real person. Maybe even add "Covid hobbies."
Wants to practice law with people they like
Especially in small/mid-size firms, one person makes an impact on the culture
This can backfire depending on what the interests are!

Final Thought

Advice she didn't get that she wish she had: Start thinking about building your own practice and your own clients, even from day one. Even if your firm is telling you it isn't expected or even wanted, you can get involved in organizations, make contacts, have lunches, etc. Building relationships is the heart and soul of the practice of law, and it takes years. Start early.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait characteristic you most want to see in an associate: enthusiasm
What habit has been key to your success: hard work
Your favorite app/productivity tool: Intapp (timekeeping app)
Favorite social distancing activity: golf
Favorite legal movie: Anything Sorkin (American President through West Wing)

Thanks again to Gwen Walraven for joining us on today's show!

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Daniel and Robert talk about the criminal justice system, an all-time plot twist, and the launch of Edward Norton.

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Robert Callahan joins us on today's episode. Robert is the founding partner of Callahan & King in Waco, TX, and he talks about starting and building a law firm, race in the criminal justice system, and how lawyers can be racial justice advocates.

His firm/practice

Central Texas firm that does mostly criminal defense with a mix of family and trusts/estates/planning as well.
Four attorneys
Started in private practice in 2011 after several years of working in the McLennan County District Attorney's Office
Wasn't sure switching from the prosecution to the D side and also running a business
Had an offer to join a DA office down near the Texas border
But after praying through it, felt that he and his family were supposed to stay in Waco and help raise the level of justice
First office was a 10x14 windowless room; tough for an extrovert!
Partnered with Chris King in 2013 who was a former intern of Robert's

COVID Update (as of 1/28/21)

Feels like things are on the rebound from a business standpoint
March 2020 brought the entire justice system to a halt; jails were only taking those who were charged with the most serious offenses
Things rebounded in the summer months alongside the help of the PPP loans
Excited to retain some of the great things that we've learned moving forward
As time passes, cases don't get better, though it tends to work in favor of the defense in a criminal context.
Local DA/judges have been good about getting non-violent offenders out of jail
For the more serious offenders in jail, the delays in the process can be hard...but at the same time you don't want to go through a trial in a courtroom and come out with a not guilty verdict plus a lethal case of COVID.

Race

Right now, COVID is impacting minorities in the justice system at a higher rate
When he started in private practice in 2011, he was one of three black attorneys in the county (one since passed away)
In 2021 there are six
With so few, he feels responsible to use his voice/platform for these issues
Michael Morton Act / Prosecutorial ethics
When everyone in the system works in their silos and doesn't consider others in the system or the system overall, it can lead to grave injustices
Prosecutors have tremendous discretion to decide whether to take case, how to charge. They wear the white hats in the courtroom, get to speak first/last, and it's critical they use that power with integrity
Concerned that the conversation that began after the death of George Floyd will fade away
The system didn't bring justice in that and other cases; it had to be crowdsourced
Pressure on different elected officials, bringing awareness, protesting, etc.
News cycle moves on
We haven't had a jury since George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, and Ahmaud Arbery, and since the difficult 2020 election. There are strong feelings about race, and those things will have be be probed when we pick juries, and there isn't practically enough time to do that well.
(Jamar Tisby, The Color of Compromise): It was never the majority that got the Civil Rights movement, it was a vocal minority. It's that remnant today that is the source of where change is going to come from.
Biggest change that needs to happen now in the criminal justice system is police reform / police brutality. This is the closest fire. Stop killing black people in the course of detentions.
8 Can't Wait
These can happen at the local/state level
Lawyers can
give their time/talent/legal services
use relationships with elected officials to advocate for change and bring awareness
read The New Jim Crow, Just Mercy
Law firms/the legal industry
Don't use the old metrics of grades/test scores to determine the potential of candidates
Just three years ago, he learned that he had a learning/reading disorder in the course of learning the same about his daughter, and that led to poor performance on law school exams. In advocacy courses he did great and performed well in mock trial.
You will miss good candidates by not looking deeper than just academics
Anybody with enough time/prep can learn the practice of law, but he can't teach you integrity or how to be a good person.
He has never asked a candidate about their grades, their exam scores, etc. Only care about the person's character.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait characteristic you most want to see in an associate: character
What habit has been key to your success: hiring people that have the characteristics that he lacks
Favorite app/productivity tool: Facebook and Google Sheets
Favorite social distancing activity: Hanging out with friends on front yard, fire pit, drinking wine
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny (though he has given 100s to Hamilton and Primal Fear on Movie Verdicts!)

Thanks again to Robert Callahan for joining us on today's show. You can find him on Facebook: @rcallahanwaco, Instagram: @rcallahan_waco, Twitter: @rcallahanwaco, or email him: callahankinglaw@gmail.com.

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Derek Hollingsworth, partner and trial lawyer with the Houston firm Drumheller, Hollingsworth, & Monty joins us on today's show. Derek talks about COVID's impact on criminal defendants, taking chances with your career, and taking ownership in the case.

His firm/practice

Started the firm two years ago
Broke off from Rusty Hardin & Associates after 15 years
Mix of civil litigation and criminal defense. Everything is a trial related practice.
Got into criminal law by 1) doing the lawyer on loan program with the DA's office, and then 2) leaving his large firm job to go to the DA's office in order to get trial experience. (That is his advice for anyone wanting to do criminal defense).
Rusty Hardin had a nice mix of criminal and civil litigation.

COVID UPDATE (As of 12/17/20)

COVID hit the breaks on most of their work
Cases are driven by pressure points that have to do with trial dates. If there is no pending trial date, there isn't motivation to do things.
If cases slow down, your cash flow can slow down too. They were about to expand before COVID hit, and they likely will once things pick back up
Compassionate release motions are an option to get clients out of jail due to COVID
Speedy Trial Act being tested in federal court where there are strict rules; state court not as much right now
Zoom/video has been
His law partner just handled an entire arbitration over Zoom:
Everything was confidential and only one person per room, with an exception for those who were identified and approved
Major challenge was keeping an eye on all the boxes of participants, and he caught a witness covering his mouth talking to someone off camera in the room who hadn't been approved/identified
Stopped the proceedings and called it out

Advice to lawyers in practice

Don't be afraid to take chances
Talking about leaving the large firm for the DA's office
Be nimble
Even he stayed for several years at Rusty Hardin before starting his own firm even thought he knew it was what he wanted to do. That's a testament to the great/quality firm Rusty created.
Own the entire issue/case
Don't build a little fence around what your are comfortable with
Don't just do only what was asked...once completed, ask the question "what's next" and take initiative
Be intellectually curious and enthusiastic, and ask questions
Pitch ideas of what you might need to do next to help move the case along

Advice to lawyers who are job seeking

For small firms, they often need someone with enough experience that you're not starting from scratch, BUT also not so much experience or set in their ways that they can't adapt to how this firm does things
Communicate and get along well with others
Hard to figure out these things on a resume or even in an interview
Are they legitimately interested in the firm (i.e. ask good questions!)
At Rusty Hardin, they liked people who weren't "handed everything"

Final Thought:

Don't be afraid to take chances; nobody is born to be a lawyer or knows exactly what they want to do. Be willing to pivot.

Rapid Fire Questions

One trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: initiative
What habit has been key to your success: planning/confidence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Clio
Favorite social distancing activity: time with family
Favorite legal movie: A Time To Kill and My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Derek Hollingsworth for joining us on the show!

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Rekha Roarty joins us on today's show! Rekha is a construction lawyer with Bollier Ciccone in Austin. Rekha talks about staying professional on Zoom, seeking out the work you want, and showing your personality in an interview.

Her firm/practice

Construction/real estate litigation (her practice); there is a family law section of the firm as well

COVID update (as of December 17, 2020)

Travis County has taken a lot of actions to protect, so civil hearings and trials are not happening in person and are entirely on Zoom
Multiple times having clients on Zoom on their phone and in their car; encourage everyone to keep the same formalities, dress, etc.
For court, use a laptop or maybe an iPad and not your phone to get on a Zoom
Make sure to block time into your calendar for it along with time ahead for getting online, making sure the tech is working ,etc.
The prices of building materials (particularly lumber) have skyrocketed, which causes issues when agreements were made a year ago when prices were much lower.
Also, there can be delays in the supply chain and/or with issues with subcontractors not wanting to work due to COVID which can impact everyone up/down the chain. So this creates labor shortages.
Post-COVID
Travis County is considering having a Zoom docket once/week in order to create more efficiencies. This would apply to routine/administrative type hearings.
Mediations/depositions are more effective in person, but it is nice to have the option to do them by Zoom if there is difficult travel or other reasons that make it hard to do them in person
Work from home can work and should be an option at least some of the time, and/or add flexibility to how we work

Advice for lawyers in practice

Speak up / volunteer for what you want to do.
offer to handle a hearing
ask if you can sit in on a call or depo
she handled her first trial after just six months of being licensed
Don't be afraid opposing counsel for their thoughts/tips/etc. after a case is over.
Attorneys are almost always willing, even eager to help and give advice
Build connections with them. Not only can you become a better lawyer, but it can also be a source of referrals.
Have pride in your work, but there is no place in your workplace for pride.
There isn't a task that is beneath you.
All hands on deck.
Be willing/able to do everything and not just what you consider to be the "attorney" role.
Have this attitude and mindset.
If you make mistakes, take responsibility and fix it. Don't blame others or make excuses.
(Daniel relating a NY Times story about an NBA agent who made a mistake that cost his client $3M, and he took responsibility and paid it back to the player over a number of years.)

Advice for lawyers seeking a job

Be yourself because firms are looking for a good fit, and nobody can tell that if you aren't being yourself
Also you need to be able to relate to people, colleagues, clients, etc.
DON'T LIE ON YOUR RESUME!
Don't shy away from resume gaps or concerns, just explain them truthfully and move on.
Highlighting interests and unique things about yourself is helpful and encouraged

Final Thought

Don't feel trapped in one area just because that's where you started. She moved from family law to construction law after 2.5 years.

Rapid Fire Questions

One trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: Honesty
What habit has been key to your success: Organization
Favorite app/tool: Slack
Favorite social distancing activity: Disney+ Sharing option where you can simultaneously stream movies at different locations and watch movies with friends/family without being in the same place
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Rekha Roarty for coming on the show!

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Robert Lord, Managing Shareholder and intellectual property lawyer with Ferguson Braswell Fraser Kubasta PC (FBFK), is our guest today. Robert talks about how to make the most of your COVID time, being decisive, and the conversational interview.

His firm/practice

Offices in Texas (Houston, Plano) and Silicon Valley
Focus is comprehensive business law, including IP which is his area
IP Law update
Patentable subject matter.
Is this thing patentable?
Courts and Congress haven't figured this out yet, so practitioners and the Patent & Trademark Office (PTO) have been stuck in the middle.
The current Patent Commissioner has provided helpful guidance.
Draft broadly so that a patent can absorb changes in the law
Design patents - purely ornamental and how it looks/appears (not how it works). This has taken off!

COVID update (as of 12/10/20)

Business hasn't been impacted too much; still very busy
"How" they serve clients has changed and adapted
Bankruptcy practice grew significantly (most from the standpoint of helping clients move up the ladder in another company's bankruptcy)
Lots of business formations still happening
Counseling businesses on PPP
Courts have slowed down on the patent side, while trademark business has increased
Lots of rebranding
Lots of online
Trademark protection
Many of their IP clients have had more time/opportunity to be creative and invent, so they have thrived.
videoconferencing, etc.
One of their clients created Corona-can for killing the virus in places like conference room prior to meetings; they recently got a $4M investment
Have to be ready to pivot and take on challenges
Firms that stick with companies as they go through these challenges will benefit
Growth has been challenging with conducting interviews.
Looking forward to
continued/more use of videoconferencing in place of in-person hearings, administrative proceedings, etc.
more flexibility for employees to work from home/elsewhere

Advice for lawyers in practice

Find someone who can be a mentor and advocate for you within your firm
Not necessarily someone you have to work directly for
Helps you learn how to actually be a lawyer within a firm
An "advocate" is someone who can go to bat for you
if something about you is being questioned they can stand up for you
if there is a judge who is criticizing, they can intervene
if there are opportunities (partnership, etc.) they can fight for you
Regarding the work
Be decisive and give an opinion. Don't just do the research and give both sides of a decision without suggesting one. Don't be afraid to be wrong! (Ex. "I don't know if it is right for this client, but here is how I see it...")
Regarding the human side
Be someone who cares (about the firm, your colleagues, staff, and the clients)
BOTH of those last two are critical

Advice to lawyers who are job seeking

Their interviews are more conversations so that both sides can get to know each other
Most of the competence questions are gleaned from the resume, work product, etc.
Candidates should be transparent and up front about obvious gaps or oddities in the resume. Don't apologize for it, but explain it
Going on and on about yourself without asking questions or learning about the firm raises flags and makes you look desperate for any job. Don't you want to know if this will be a good fit? Don't you want to know what it's like to work here?
If you are uncomfortable interviewing in person during the pandemic, that's okay. Video interviews or socially distant in-person interviews can work. And if the firm isn't flexible or doesn't line up with where you are, it might not be a great fit.

Rapid Fire Questions

Name the one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: decisive
What habit has been key to your success: responsiveness
What is your favorite app/productivity tool: Outlook (multiple time zones feature)
What is your favorite social distancing activity: Virtual Happy Hour
What is your favorite legal movie: The Firm and Legally Blonde

Thanks so much to Robert Lord for joining us on the show!

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Rhodes Hamilton, founder and partner at Hamilton & Squibb in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Rhodes talks about launching your own law firm, COVID's impact on the energy sector, the importance of making progress, and demonstrating interest in the job you want.

His firm/practice

Dallas and Fort Worth offices
Oil/gas transactional boutique; midstream/upstream
10 total lawyers
He didn't even take oil/gas in law school!
Oil boom was coming right as he was leaving law school in 2005; Barnett Shale in Tarrant County
After just three years saw the the opportunity to launch his own practice
Easiest hard decision he's ever had
Mortgage, car payment, first kid on the way
But saw the opportunity

COVID-19 Update (as of December 3, 2020)

In April, oil prices went negative!
O/G companies have generally been contracting; not a lot of transactional work happening; plenty of bankruptcy
They are back in the office; gave people the option after the stay-at-home order expired
80% of work happening in the office; still 20% or so from home
Had to put a lot of client communication on calls/Zoom/Microsoft Teams; but that is really hard because in their business much of the business development happens face-to-face
2021 should be better
some consolidation of clients that will be sorted out
Commodity pricing is on its way up

Advice for lawyers in practice

Be flexible; willing to do what is needed
You always have to be developing business; can't be reliant on just a few clients...what if they leave? Don't be short-sighted.
Could mean writing, speaking, anything...
Even young lawyers/associates need to get out; be the firm's presence at activities/events that nobody else wants to go to
Always be making progress. Listen, learn, improve.
In a small firm, each associate is, by percentage, a much larger part of the firm than at larger firms, so each individual's development is critical to the firm's success
Don't take things for granted; apply yourself; commit and jump in with both feet
Re: work/life balance:
show a willingness to get the job done first
if that is happening and you want to take a Friday off or adjust the schedule, etc., then great!

Advice for lawyers who are job seeking

Don't have to be at the top of the class for them
Show interest in oil/gas
clerkship/internship?
industry groups?
Fit is really important with a small firm, and that's hard to pin down
For those wanting to transition to oil/gas from another area:
get involved in a trade group/organization
state bar section for oil/gas
you have to show your genuine interest
The firm can teach some of the oil/gas specifics if the desire to learn is there

Final thought:

Get into something else aside your law practice (pro bono, side hustle, hobby); be well-rounded

Rapid fire questions:

Name the one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: willingness
What habit has been key to your success: Be in front of trends; anticipate
Favorite app/productivity tool: Microsoft Teams
Favorite social distancing activity: Outside/fishing
Favorite legal movie: The Firm

Thanks again to Rhodes Hamilton for coming on the show!

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Today's guest is Michael Kabat, partner and litigator at McGinnis Lochridge in Austin. Michael talks about IP cases moving to Waco, being a lawyer of your word, and what they look for in lateral hires.

His firm/practice

Full service regional firm with Austin roots (now Houston and Decatur offices); oldest law firm in Austin
Lots of oil/gas and public utility clients, but
His practice is a broad litigation practice, though the two he focuses on are business litigation and intellectual property litigation
As a Waco native, he is particularly interested in Judge Alan Albright's federal court which has a heavy IP case load
Waco could become the new East Texas/Marshall/Rocket Docket
Several firms around the state opening up new/satellite offices in Waco

COVID-19 update (as of 12/3/20)

Began operating remote in March, and has stayed that way since then.
Was an undertaking to get it implemented, but has worked well
Moved group communication to Microsoft Teams
Pretty simple/easy to use
Good chat function and project based threads
Screen sharing is okay
Good video functionality similar to Zoom
Some folks in the Houston office have returned to the office and people will occasionally pop into the Austin office
Some hearings/depos it has been better to get the tech/office support from being in the office
They were in the process of renovating a new space to move into, and COVID has given them pause to rethink the standard ways of commuting/officing
Austin continues to boom with real estate/construction/office projects

Advice for lawyers in practice

Your word is your bond; learn who does/doesn't abide by the same
Become someone others can trust
If it's a difficult call, what impact will there be on the client? Matters of scheduling/procedure are things that generally don't negatively impact the client and the lawyer can make the call. If it's more of a strategy decision then you really need to listen to the client.
Treat your partners as your client; don't lose sight that you are in a client service business with a fiduciary obligation
By impressing the partners, you will get more responsibility and opportunity

Advice for lawyers seeking a job / can you answer these questions?

What has your experience been thus far?
What do your colleagues think of you?
Do they fit into the culture of the firm?
In their firm, it's usually a specific need they are looking to fill, so that match will be important.
Could the person become a partner?
Not every firm prioritizes this; important to know/understand the firm's approach in this regard.
What is the leverage structure of the firm? Lots of associates for each partner? That might mean they aren't looking for partners.
Do they want to live in the city?
Austin is growing as a legal market
Big firms aren't for everyone and there are plenty of other great opportunities

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ownership/eagerness
What habit has been key to your success: calendaring deadlines and daily time entry
Favorite app/productivity tool: Snipping on Microsoft Office
Favorite social distancing activity: sleeping; Queen's Gambit (Netflix); The Boys (Amazon Prime)
Favorite legal movie: Intolerable Cruelty

Thanks again to Michael Kabat for joining us on today's show!

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Joey Sampson, partner and litigator with McCathern in Dallas, joins us on today's show! Joey talks about COVID's impact on public venues, expediting your learning curve, taking advantage of resources like podcasts, and resiliency as a key character trait for lawyers.

His firm/practice

Four offices (Dallas/Frisco/Los Angeles/Houston)
Grown from a 9 lawyer firm in 2007 to over 40 today
Broad civil litigation practice plus now family law
He is more focused on insurance coverage and construction defect litigation
Frisco office is at The Star (Dallas Cowboys HQ who is also a client)

COVID 19 update (as of November 19th, 2020)

Still in the office in Dallas
Clients are settling into the new normal, but dealing with COVID-related issues such as employee matters
Some litigation around construction defect peaked in July/August
He is part of a group, IVAM, that meets regularly on public venue issues
Expects to see litigation in the coming months/years from people who claim to have gotten COVID from attending an event in a public venue
But most of the cases are being brought against companies by employees or passengers against cruise lines
But how do you prove causation and where you actually contracted the virus?
Venues are definitely focused on this and trying to keep people safe
Have to adapt to using the technology (Zoom depos/hearings); he had never heard of Zoom before COVID
encourages your preparation because you have to have your documents ready to go for the shared screen, etc. ahead of time
Texas will need to extend rules to enable further use of the technology
After COVID
Likely that hearings/depos will continue to take place on Zoom (saves the drive time, money, etc.)
Document-heavy depos/hearings, and those with certain witnesses, will still likely be in person
The costs of litigation will push this
Judges have adapted for the most part and some really like it

Advice to lawyers in practice

Don't use youth as an excuse; expedite your learning curve
Always strive to get better
Step up
If you work at it, you can become a seven year lawyer by year five
Ex. get better at depos by studying great interviewers (podcasts are great for this: listen to Charlie Rose or Howard Stern conduct an interview and learn different approaches)
Also listen to great trial lawyers like Mark Lanier
Do a Zoom CLE and take advantage of those resources
Pick up tips from anywhere!
Also become a better writer by reading great writing
Key for a young associate to stand out
Watch trials and hearings of local courts on YouTube
Be a leader; be the first to volunteer for projects
Don't send drafts to partners; send it to them ready to file

Advice to lawyers in the job search

Traditional model of reviewing resumes and interviews are a poor way to hire; it's hard to identify the best people from that
How do you tell if someone is resilient and empathetic/compassionate, which research shows is the best indicator of someone who will succeed
Traditional methods are often a coin flip
Angela Duckworth book "Grit" and corresponding Ted Talk

Final thought

Pay attention to your mental health. He is in recovery now; addiction is widespread in the legal profession, and we need to talk about it more. (Resources - LCL; TLAP)

Rapid fire questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: resiliency/grit
What habit is key to your success: always learning
Favorite app/productivity tool: 1 Password
Favorite social distancing activity: golf
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Joey Sampson for joining us on today's show!

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Will Thomas, partner and litigator with McDowell Hetherington in Houston, is our guest on today's show! Will talks about COVID's impact on trial work, being your case's own toughest critic, and demonstrating grit in a job interview.

His firm/practice

50 lawyers spread over four offices around the country, with the HQ in Houston
Boutique litigation
Most known for life insurance litigation
Most of Will's practice is with oil/gas companies
Falling gas prices have an impact
Changing discovery rules (lowering thresholds) could impact how cases move through the process and perhaps go to trial more

COVID Update (11/12/20)

Already lean when it comes to staffing, and already was working with multiple offices around the country so the transition to work from home was pretty easy
Now in a hybrid mode: if you want to come up to the office you can (with protocols), but you can work from home if you want
In Spring/Summer there was doubt as to how much work could get done without trials and without in-person hearings/depos/etc., but this has turned out to be one of the busiest years they have had.
Lots of litigation spurred by COVID
Courts adapting to online hearings
Not one case has settled at mediation since COVID started
There is something said for people to go to a place, block the entire day, invest the time, as a drive toward settling
Virtual mediations don't raise the cost of not settling much, so there is less incentive
Resolutions still happen; they just take a bit longer
Depositions are tough on Zoom
Will wants to be in the room with his witness; the witness wants that too
They have used their office or even a rented out hotel conference room to have Will and the witness in the same room together
Getting up, putting on a suit, going to downtown Houston, creates some mental and attitudinal things for the lawyer and the witness that don't exist on Zoom (w/ COVID protocols like taking a COVID test, quarantining, etc. in advance)
Zoom can lead to relaxing and informality, and you don't want your witness to slip into that mindset and say something they shouldn't.
There can also be distractions (kids, dogs, etc.)
Hearings haven't changed much, but there are more of them since they are much easier to schedule
Judges are very prepared
We can probably continue to have more/video hearings post-COVID

Advice to lawyers in practice

Start your day early; Will gets in around/before 7am
As an associate he always got into the office before the partner that he did a lot of work for
Get your day started on the right foot
Being there early led to answering a partner call to work on a case; that client now gives Will about 40% of his business
Know that you aren't going to win them all, and that is okay (can be hard for the typical law student/lawyer to handle)
Can't take it personally
You have to let it go and keep after it; can't fret/dwell
Be critical of your side, your story, your facts, etc.
Make sure you know all the holes and are asking all the questions
You don't want to be surprised later, especially by the other side
Have original ideas about the case
It doesn't matter if they wound up getting used, it shows creativity and that you are thinking/caring about the case.
Think beyond what your assignment is
Don't be afraid to share your ideas!
Don't default to just meeting the task/expectations; take ownership of the case!
Re: business development
Work hard on your cases and show that you have value
Find attorneys to work for who will value/include you, and make yourself indispensable to them
Re: work/life balance
In the first few years, work probably takes priority
This is a practice, and the only way to get better is to put in the time
To go to trial and be a better lawyer, you have to put in the time

Advice to lawyers in job searching

Show that you are someone who can work autonomously
Show that you want to take charge and run cases
Show that you are going to work hard and that you want to win
Grit - Were you on multiple advocacy teams in law school? Did you write onto law review? Did you work in law school?

Final words of advice: This is a hard job! If it was easy, everyone would do it. There is a lot of stress. People look to you. You have to be a good writer, good in the courtroom, creative, sales/marketing. Night crew of associates to work/eat/socialize together!

Rapid Fire Questions:

Name the one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: creativity
What habit has been key to your success: write down your next 24-48 hours of projects/tasks each day
Favorite app/productivity tool: Apple Notes
Favorite social distancing activity: waking the (new) dog
Favorite legal movie: Bridge of Spies

Thanks again to Will Thomas for joining us on the show!

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Runaway Jury, the John Grishman novel turned 2003 movie starring John Cusack and Gene Hackman, is the subject of today's Movie Verdicts episode with hosts Daniel Hare and Robert Callahan. Daniel and Robert talk about jury service, bathroom scenes, juror stereotypes, and guns v. tobacco.

Special Mentions:

Koppelman/Levine tweet re: Sean Connery
Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell
Bruce McGill, who plays the judge (and also the sheriff in a previously featured episode of My Cousin Vinny), is the uncle of a listener of the show!
Epic fail of the Bechtel and Callahare tests
Stanley Anderson plays the gun company CEO who we didn't give near enough credit to in the episode

Runaway Jury scored an 89.5 (Robert) and 87 (Daniel) for a combined score of 88.25.

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Jennifer King, medical malpractice and healthcare litigator at Burford & Ryburn in Dallas joins us on today's show! Jennifer talks about the latest in medical malpractice, how to get good at lawyering by Zoom, and the importance of availability and responsiveness.

Her firm/practice:

Her firm is over 100 years old
During the 100 year, they did 100 things for the community (planted 100 trees, 100 hours of community service, etc.)
She does professional liabiltiy defense representing hospitals/doctors/nurses/providers when they are sued or before medical boards; also counsels clients on policy; also does some lawyer liability defense
Firm has a general defense practice with lawyers working in a variety of industries
Don't do any criminal or tax law
There is always discussion of adjusting the non-economic caps for damages, but it never seems to go through; there has been a loosening of the expert report requirements under Chapter 74 of the Civil Practice and Remedies Code (good for plaintiffs)
While the conventional wisdom is that medmal is a slow/dying practice area, she is as busy as she ever has been. So that is not necessarily the case

COVID update (10/15/20)

She was visiting hospital clients in March when everything hit, and it was striking how when she went from one hospital that was bustling, to the next one which was empty/silent, it all hit home
Litigation took a back seat to employee health concerns, PPE
Plaintiff's lawyers were very good about waiting/postponing while the providers were getting their arms around the pandemic
She and her lawyer friends would practice on Zoom (with a glass of wine!); figure out the chat feature, raising hand, changing names, etc. This helped her adapt quickly and she has since had meetings, mediations, hearings, etc. and it has gone well
It does in some ways make things easier when you don't have to travel all over the state to meet with clients (though there are a number of benefits of face-to-face meetings that get lost)
Practice, practice, practice on Zoom!
She enjoys working from home and is completely in control of her environment; thinks that going forward many lawyers will work in some combination of home/work
Zoom replacing phone calls has helped and should stay; mediations by Zoom have worked well and are easier to schedule

Advice for lawyers in practice

Availability and responsiveness are key for an associate
She was in the office during lunch when most associates were out, and a partner couldn't find anyone to help him on a project. He found his way to Jennifer's office and asked if she had time, to which she said "absolutely!" That day changed her career trajectory.
She made sure to be in the office anytime he was
Clients expect a response to calls/emails
Jennifer never said no to an assignment or project. If it required weekends/nights/etc. that was okay.
She will have multiple weeks in a row that are jam packed, but may then follow it up with scheduled down time (ex. several days in Florida with friends)
If you are getting so much work that you don't think you can keep up or you are at risk of burnout, communicate with the partner. Many times you just need to triage your project list to see what the priorities are

Advice for lawyers in the job search

She likes to look at the skills/activities section of the resume; that's where you really learn about them
Also likes to interview them by taking them out to lunch or dinner; looking for whether there is a connection - she wants to hire future partners!
Personable, good stories, able to communicate are keys to show in the interview

Final Thought

People who want to litigate: seek out those partners who you can find great opportunities for the work you want.
Never let the political climate or industry news to discourage you or dissuade you from pursuing your passion
You don't win by being timid
There are opportunities out there, so get after it!

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: hunger/passion
What habit is key to success: responsiveness
Favorite app/productivity tool: smart phone
Favorite social distancing activity: Zoom Happy Hours!
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird / Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Jennifer King for joining us on the show!

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Kevin Cherry, founding partner and board certified lawyer at Cherry Petersen Landry Alpert, joins us on today's show. Kevin talks about finding your own way, getting to work early, and being yourself in a job interview.

His firm/practice:

Practiced at another law firm his first three years out of law school, worked hard, but his heart wasn't in it
Left the law firm and went to work at a real estate company (not practicing law), but that didn't work out
Fortunate to then become an in-house attorney (1986) and now his heart was in it, and success followed
His job was eliminated when the company was bought, and he had another decision to make
Turned down an offer from a great firm, and instead hung his own shingle (1991)
The real estate market was in recovery, he had built up good relationships with his old firm, old company, and others from growing up in Dallas
Another firm approached him and wanted to bring him/his practice on; they tried it for a few months but he returned to just his own firm
So his firm was a real estate boutique until 2009 when they added a litigation group
20 lawyers (15 real estate transactions plus 5 litigators)
Took him a little longer to find his path than others; and that's okay!
In real estate law,
the lawyers come in at the last minute, when the deal is 75% done
so perspective is trailing the market
retail and office real estate business is tough
industrial/warehouse is good
residential is good (multi-family pretty good; single family very good)
Lots of business in Texas, and the real estate business is local (i.e. relationships)
likes that deals are done relatively quickly (compared to litigation)

Advice to lawyers in practice

Get to work early!
Manage your email and guard your time well
Show that you care about the quality of the work that you are doing; care about every project you do
Doesn't mean perfectionism, but consistency and quality; clients can tell!

Advice to lawyers who are looking for a job

Small firm perspective, and it is an inexact science
Didn't start hiring lawyers from law school until a few years ago
Has recently hired on the spot based on referrals and a short interview (strong referral in this circumstance)
Looks for a personal connection that he finds compelling, and/or something in their academic record that is impressive (e.g. one interesting
It's not an objective process, no specific GPA, it is individual
Relax in an interview and be yourself (he had braces for his interviews and made it through!)
Book: What Color is Your Parachute? - lots of nos before a yes

Rapid Fire Questions

One trait or characteristic you most want to see in an associate: humility
What habit has been key to your success: keeping up relationships
Favorite app/tool: podcasts (Megyn Kelly, Michael Lewis, Malcolm Gladwell, Tim Keller)
Favorite social distancing activity: bicycling
Favorite legal movie: Breaker Morant (though Wedding Crashers might be if it is a legal movie)

Thanks again to Kevin Cherry for joining us on the show!

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Will King is a trial lawyer in Houston with the firm Wallace & Allen, where he works to protect the rights of working people, homeowners, and small businesses in complex cases throughout the United States. Will talks about COVID litigation, trusting your instincts, and the importance of brevity.

His practice

Commercial litigation, wage/hour defense, governmental litigation, constitutional litigation
Spike in cases related to COVID since it may be the first time people/businesses are really seeing the power of government regulation
Pre-COVID governmental litigation was limited to certain businesses, but now it is more widespread
New executive orders from Governor Abbot lead directly to new client calls

COVID Update (10/8/20)

Small firm with three lawyers and two staff
Worked from home beginning in March and throughout most of the pandemic, but it has worked okay since most of his work is briefing work, and hearings have moved to Zoom
Still prefers in-person hearings to get the vibe/read of the room, but for uncontested matters sticking with remote hearings makes sense post-COVID
The importance of brevity in presentations has become critical when doing remote hearings/depositions; it is easy for virtual listeners to get bored and stop paying attention
Consider what is in the background of your video shot, and the placement/angle of your video camera

Advice to lawyers in practice

Trust your own instincts (that doesn't mean overconfident); understand where your client, the other side, and the judge are coming from; use common sense! Don't assume that senior lawyers in your own firm or on the other side know what they are talking about.
As a lawyer you are constantly learning; the law is always changing and cases are always different
Re: briefing, don't kill yourself looking for a case that is precisely on point. There usually isn't a perfect case. You need to make the best argument you can. Though it is important to know if a case on point (or close) goes against you!
If there isn't a case(s) because the issue is novel or because the cases are from another era making it hard to extrapolate, think through what the policy and goals of the law were and how they apply to your set of facts.
In old-time cases, judicial opinions focused more on general principles than discreet elements of the law; this allowed for more creativity, if not also less predictability in how it applies to other/future/contemporary cases.
To build business
Get facetime with your client as much as possible; this will yield to referrals and more business from that client and others
Build relationships: referral sources and clients themselves (often depending on the type of practice)
Work/life balance
Ask the question: what is your stamina like? If not a grinder, then tailor the job search for an employer that can fit that.
Can come/go depending on the week/month, so prepare that it will vary throughout the year.
When evaluating, don't just look at "hour requirements" if it takes a lot of non-billable hours to get to the billable requirement.

Advice to lawyers on the job search

Make sure your resume is properly formatted, no typos
Have a solid writing sample to present that shows your writing style/tone, how you isolate/address the issue
Doesn't matter so much what the content is, but rather does it show that you can communicate in a clear/concise manner
What are you most proud of? Submit that!
In an interview
Can you hold a conversation and speak like a regular person
Are you on the same wavelength with the interviewer? If not, then perhaps it isn't a great fit.

Final Thoughts: Much of the job is learning on the fly. Read other lawyer's work product to see what is good and then shape it into your own style.

Rapid Fire Questions:

One trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ability to problem solve
Habit that is key to success: remembering how much you don't know; thorough in research
Favorite app/tool: Westlaw
Favorite social distancing activity: yard work
Favorite legal movie: Better Call Saul (show)

Thanks again to Will King for joining us on today's show!

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Matthew Myers, immigration lawyer and partner at MW Law, joins us on today's show! Matthew talks about a wild year in immigration law, how to navigate law firm politics, and highly targeting your job search efforts.

His practice / firm

Recently launched his own practice after working with a large immigration law firm
Mostly working on investor and employment immigration cases
Partnered with two friends who had a business/real estate transactional firm and started the immigration section
International focused
Always something new in immigration law:
The Trump administration just changed an important definition of the type of job that qualifies for an H-1B visa
A significant number of major developments in 2020
Shutting down travel to different countries and different types of visas during this pandemic
Would a Biden-administration open the immigration system back up?

Covid Update (as of 10/8/20)

A lot of fear/confusion for clients, which creates opportunity for lawyers to be of assistance
All the US embassies and consulates were closed in March which dramatically impacted people trying to get back into the country
Has been working at home but is ready to get back into the office to try and keep a separation between and personal
Most of his practice can all be done remote/online
He has volunteered to work on asylum/removal defense cases where hearings are still happening in-person

Advice for lawyers in practice

Get into the office before everyone else, and be the last one to leave
He distinguished himself at the firm in a short time because of his commitment to this
Higher volume work in the early years can multiply your experience, so that after three or four years you've gained what amounts to 10+ years of experience
Approach the early years like you are a resident in medical school
If you can, save work/life balance for later
Careful that you aren't taken advantage of by others in the firm who know you work well/hard/long, and advocate for appropriate compensation
Will differentiate you from other lawyers with similar years of experience
Legal field can be political
The show Suits is an exaggeration, but based upon some truth of how it is
Advocate for yourself
Old school expectations (e.g. lifetime loyalty to a firm)
Find the best fit for you
Become independent as soon as you can
Ask yourself what you would do if you didn't have more senior lawyers you could go to
Come up with your own/new ideas

Advice for lawyers in job searches

Closely tailor your resume to the job you are applying to
One page resume with no typos
If you are looking to switch practice areas, get out and meet people in the practice area you are wanting to move to

Rapid Fire Questions

One trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: be receptive to guidance
Key habit: hard work
Favorite app/tool: todoist
Favorite social distancing activity: coffee on the patio
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Matthew Myers for coming on the show!

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Akilah Craig, labor & employment lawyer with the national law firm Vorys in Houston, joins us on today's show! Akilah talks about COVID's impact on employment law, race in the legal system, and how lawyers can use their time and talents to enact change.

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Julia Jurgensen, partner and construction lawyer with the full-service firm of Beard Kultgen in Waco, joins us on today's show! Julia talks about practicing law post-COVID, planning for work/life balance, and how to show you'll be a good fit in a firm.

Her firm/practice

She is in her 15th year of practice
full-service firm that does everything but family and criminal law
21 attorneys and have been growing
She got her start as a plaintiff's attorney in Houston, but since moving back has done more general/commercial litigation and construction law
Several law changes lately in construction law: surety, indemnity
Construction law:
She enjoys the clients: they are direct!
Got to work with family friends
Likes getting out to the job site and learning more about development and real estate
Contract consulting is a big piece
Waco market
Loves that she knows many of her clients outside of work
You will often know the attorney on the other side of the case, which most of the time brings a level of civility
Lots of sophisticated work and people
Great judges who are fair/thoughtful

COVID Update (as of 9/17/20)

Big investment by the firm in technology
How do we best serve elderly / high-risk clients? (e.g. signing wills in the parking lot with masks)
The practice itself hasn't changed much
She also handles some of the HR duties within the firm, so implementing protocols has been important as well as transitioning people to work from home.
Post-covid
Keeping people safe/healthy is important for them and the firm, so that should stay a priority moving forward
Helping people to be productive working in a flexible or work-from-home situation
However, it is still important to be physically present at the firm if at all possible, especially for young attorneys looking to get work from partners and popping into offices.

Work/Life Balance

It's hard, and balance means different things at different points in your life
Think about it early in your career, especially what you might want 5, 10, 20 years from now
Do you know now that you always want to practice full-time? Part-time once you have a family?
(Daniel) Look ahead at the people going through different life stages and see how the firm is responding to them
She can now model that to other lawyers now and be a resource for them

Advice to lawyers in their job search

Law school grades are important because they are an indicator
If a lateral, do they have a book of business?
What do they do outside of work? What did they do in high school? So interests on the resume are important.
Helps to figure out whether the person fits into the firm culture.
(Daniel) if you have interesting interests, include them; if not, don't!
In the interview
Can the person look her in the eye?
Do they demonstrate honestly/integrity?
Will they get along with others in the firm?
Ask good questions; shows how interested they truly are

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: strong work ethic
What habit has been key to your success: keeping things in perspective
Favorite app/tool: paper list and a combo paper/electronic calendar
Favorite social distancing activity: coaching little league
Favorite legal movie: Erin Brockovich

Thanks again to Julia Jurgensen for joining us on the show!

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Caroline Harrison, founding partner of the labor and employment boutique Pham Harrison in Fort Worth, joins us on today's show. Caroline shares her work/life balance tips, advice for business development, and how to prepare for an interview.

Her firm/practice

Focus on employment law but will handle some other types of litigation as well
They have three partners and one associate attorney plus several staff
Practice didn't see a dip during COVID because employment questions were raised
Before COVID she had not given her cell number out to many people and tried to maintain some work-life balance, but since COVID many of her clients have her cell phone number and contact her often

Advice to lawyers in practice

Do what you say you're going to do
Return clients' calls/emails promptly
You don't have to be perfect; you will make mistakes, and the important thing is finding and fixing them
Read the lawyers you are working for and know your audience; some will give you more leeway and others will want you to ask their permission before doing anything
Don't make strategy decisions without checking
Be on top of deadlines (for the entire case not just your particular assignment)
Communicate, communicate, communicate
Regarding assignments from partners:
Know your deadline;
Know the format for submission (memo, brief, discussion, presentation, etc.)
Know what you have been asked to do (i.e. confirm that you understand the assignment)
(Check out Haley Turner talking about this in this episode)
Re: work/life balance
Establish boundaries
Understand the expectations of your firm. If something isn't required but a few people do it, be mindful that if you start doing it the expectation will be there for you moving forward
Try to get your work done during the week so you can take the weekends to refresh
Exercise in the morning so you can take advantage of the endorphins, as well as not let something come up that prevents you from doing it later in the day

Advice to lawyers for business development

Get involved with local young lawyers group
you will make close friends
will become a great referral source
get on a committee or something beyond just going to the happy hours
Get involved in some type of charitable / community organization that you have a passion for
She is in a book club that a former classmate had put together (but most of the group is not a lawyer)
Don't turn down speaking engagements
Be patient; it won't all happen fast and at once

Advice to lawyers in a job search

Most of their hiring has been people who have externed with them while in law school
This is important for her to see how possible hires interact with everyone in the firm, clients, etc. to determine if they are a fit
Grades aren't as important as fit
No spelling errors on resume
Is there something in your background (and in the documents) that make it clear why you want to work in THIS firm.
Put interests on a resume if they are interesting/unique and can be a conversation starter
In the interview, show confidence without arrogance and find a way to be at ease
Come with substantive questions that shows the interviewer you are interested in them, the firm, and the position
This also helps in networking! Ask questions!

Final Thought: Arrive 10-15 minutes before your supervising attorney arrives and leave 10-15 minutes after. They will think you are the hardest working attorney in the firm.

Rapid Fire Questions:

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: confidence
What habit has been key to your success: follow-through
Your favorite app/productivity tool: pad of paper/pen for to-do lists
Your favorite social distancing activity: sitting on a restaurant patio with friends
Your favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Caroline Harrison for coming on the show!

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Jessica Dunne, Senior Associate at Farrow-Gillespie Heath Witter in Dallas, joins us on today's show. Jessica talks about the growing demand for elder law attorneys, how to use social media for business development, and highlighting accomplishments on your resume.

Her firm/practice:

Full-service, mid-size, woman-owned
She mostly handles probate, guardianship, and fiduciary litigation and administrations; also adoptions
Growing elderly population so the needs for these services are skyrocketing
Most of the lawyers practicing in this area are older and are aging out, so there is a great opportunity for younger lawyers
Exciting to be in a high-demand practice
It can be hard to break into initially since many of the firms that handle these matters are small/solo, and/or they aren't in a position to train new lawyers
She took a general litigation position right out of law school, but wound up lateraling to work with a former probate judge who she had developed a relationship with once he left the bench and needed an associate
Easier to go from general litigation to probate as opposed to the reverse

COVID Update (8/20)

Still working mostly from home, though she can go into the office if needed
She can do most of what she does from home, and then hearings have all been by Zoom and phone, which has worked well
clients like not having to get to the courthouse, especially with a more elderly population
please mute yourself when you aren't talking
Keep courtroom decorum / look presentable
Find a quiet place
She is hoping/expecting both of these to continue post-COVID
Networking is challenging/different now
Best avenue for business development is social media

Advice for lawyers in practice

She learned early how to look at a case in a forward looking matter; anticipate needs and don't wait to be asked
Ex. find the medical expert for testator capacity if that's at issue
Ex. if you are asked to draft a motion, draft the order that you would ask the judge to sign granting the motion
Ex. put together everything you need for a prove up hearing, not just one or a few components
Put together the timeline of important facts and documents at the very beginning
add Bates numbers to related exhibits that pertain/prove those
can potentially be the outline of your opening statement; the theme can come from it
helps keep you organized
makes your discovery more effective
Communicate, communicate, communicate
respond to emails/calls of your bosses/colleagues/clients
Business Development
Build relationships
in the community
with other lawyers; they can be your best referral source
make sure other lawyers know what you do
Social Media
Ex. she diagrammed a complicated heirship tree on her daughter's playroom wall and posted it on Facebook with a clever caption and a #getawill hashtag. This originated four estate planning clients for her firm (and she doesn't even do the wills/estate planning)

Advice for lawyers in job seeking

no spelling/grammar errors
even in thank you notes (which you can send by email)
show on your resume what you actually did
did you draft/argue/win motions?
do you draft/object/respond to discovery?
do you prep depo outlines or do you take the depos? If so, fact or expert?
what did you do at trial?
what role in an appeal?
Highlight results
even for things that settle or get worked out, you can say "negotiated favorable result..."

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an Associate: self-starter / takes initiative / doesn't need to be told
What habit has been key to your success: making to-do lists or action item lists for litigation cases
Favorite app/productivity tool: Action-Item Lists - put everything you might do in a litigation case onto a master list so you can keep pushing the ball forward; also helps you hit billing requirements
Favorite social distancing activity: Enjoying the pool a their new house (purchased to accommodate their growing family!)
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Jessica Dunne for joining us on today's show!

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Kara Batey of the Austin-based full-service law firm Branscomb, P.C., joins us on today's show. Kara talks about remote working post-COVID, the emergence of water law, and how to show sincere interest in a job interview.

COVID-19 Update

Everyone working from home since March
Being an oil/gas lawyer she doesn't have to worry about court, etc. Working on docs and making calls can continue mostly like normal
Important to have a dedicated area to work from
Can access the Austin office if she needs to
Able to offer clients new technology like Zoom, etc., but they haven't needed/wanted it
Using Microsoft Teams within the office for video meetings
Good to check in with colleagues and those you work closely with
The use of tech and work from home will likely lead to law firms reducing their real estate footprint going forward
From a budgeting standpoint, this is a fixed cost that you can't change, and Austin real estate is expensive
Force Majeure has become a major issue, both figuring how how it applies in current contracts, and drafting them in current/future agreements to specifically address pandemics
Is it even economic to litigate it, or better to just come together and work something out

Her firm and practice

Firm has practice groups intended to meet their clients' business and personal legal needs
corporate
tax
labor/employment
oil/gas/real estate/water
estate planning/probate
litigation
She does transactional real property matters
focused mostly on commercial real estate and water
legal concepts are similar throughout these areas
water law is tracking oil/gas law
Oil/Gas law gave her great experience and understanding that translates and is applicable across lots of real estate practice areas. Ex. writing title opinions.

Advice to lawyers in practice

It is helpful to specialize in something, but even more so to choose a specialty that can be applied to broader/tangential areas
Clients will often have related issues. So if you can handle those too you can expand your business.

Advice to lawyers searching for a job

Always include you GPA on your resume; if you don't people assume you have a bad one
If you can show a history of success in your practice area of some number of years, then this probably doesn't matter quite as much
Proofread all materials; typos, incomplete sentences, address cover letters to the right person
Express sincere interest in your cover letter for the position you are applying for
emphasize relevant experience and/or coursework
don't overestimate yourself; take a humble approach; if you are a new or young lawyer, you don't really know much yet.
If the job is posted, apply for THAT job. Don't try to apply for another one that you want. Ex. The job is posted in Corpus Christi but you apply for their Austin office.
In the interview, be sure to show that sincere interest in the area of law/practice

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: make new mistakes / i.e. don't keep making the same mistakes
Habit that is key to your success: Persistence
Favorite app/productivity tool: Zillow
Favorite social distancing activity: backyard happy hours
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Kara Batey for joining us on today's show!

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Tom Jacob, trial lawyer with Whitehurst, Harkness, Brees, Cheng, Alsaffar, Higginbotham, and Jacob, PLLC in Austin, joins us on today's show! Tom talks about Zoom trials, the Feres Doctrine, outlining before you write, and lots of recommended tools!

COVID Update (Recorded July 30, 2020)

Finished off a federal bench trial by Zoom; had one final witness as COVID hit, so earlier this summer the judge/parties went ahead with the final witness by Zoom to close the trial.
Had been doing a lot of remote depos pre-COVID so they were prepared when that ramped up
He built an app to use with Zoom to quickly pull up case files documents, annotate them, and display them
His partners screenshare PDFs on their screen
Lots of hearings by Zoom too; probably more now than ever because it is so much more convenient and easy to get the parties together
Looking forward to the Travis County pilot program; jury trial much trickier
Very easy for jurors to get distracted, especially for longer trials
Lots of time/cost savings

His practice/firm

He practices mostly in federal court representing veterans and military service members against the U.S. government in personal injury and medical malpractice cases.
Examples: catastrophic brain injury in a child; building fell on client; Sutherland Springs mass shooting case
Gets clients by referrals, being active in the community, writing/publishing, and getting found on Google
For 50 years active duty military haven't been able to sue the government for medical malpractice / personal injury because of the Feres Doctrine, judge made law that barred these types of claims, but Congress recently passed a law to counter that doctrine. Now these military members can bring an administrative claim (still cannot sue).
Not perfect since it is the agency you are suing that is making the determination, but it is something
New law just went into effect, and the agencies are passing the regulations right now
Congress is also working on COVID liability provisions that could impact their practice and whether their clients can bring claims if it is written broadly
Odd because most of the lawsuits being brought due to COVID are not tort-lawsuits, so immunity from torts doesn't align. Most lawsuits are employment, evictions, etc.
As of September 11, this Safe to Work Act, Senate Bill 4317, has not yet made its way through Congress.

Advice for lawyers in practice

No matter where you are on the drafting ladder, turn your draft in ready to file
While he was clerking with a firm during law school, he wrote a motion that the partner approved of, but criticized him for not filling in the partner's bar number to the signature block.
Even if you know it is going to go through multiple revisions and multiple people
If you don't know something, ask. Don't want to ask the partner who assigned the work? Ask a paralegal or associate.
When you are writing, you should always outline first
Always knew this but didn't put it into practice until more recently
Thought it was outdated
Now he outlines everything
Uses an entirely separate application (OmniOutliner) where he outlines (focus is on substance)
When you get to the prose piece, you don't have to worry about the substance and can focus on the prose/writing

Advice to lawyers who are job seeking

As a lawyer you are a professional writer, which includes being a professional publisher (understand how layout/design impact substance)
Be able to hold the conversation in an interview

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait/Characteristic you most want to see in an associate: hustle
Habit that has been key to your success: laziness - find an easier way to do it
Favorite app/tool: Soulver (advanced calculator for MAC; dates/times/etc.)
Favorite social distancing activity: running
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Tom Jacob for joining us on the show!

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We talk about the best client moment, best scene, best line, and give our gavels for Hamilton.

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Holly Davis and Chris Kirker, founders and partners of the Austin family law boutique firm Kirker Davis, join us on today's show. They talk about Zoom best practices and the importance of hunger and believing in yourself.

COVID-19 update (as of the July 30th recording date)

The March shutdown created family law issues
Influx of people needing help
interpret existing orders
know options if they are in an abusive situation
issues around kids/school
Travis County
going to test a Zoom jury trial that is non-binding
essentially a pilot program
doubt we'll get to binding Zoom jury trials
Bexar County
Hybrid with some Zoom voir dire
Zoom hearings here to stay
prove ups at the end of the divorce are a good example of the type of hearing that could continue post-COVID
Lots of efficiencies
Proud of their team in both Austin and Williamson County offices in how they have adapted to the Zoom hearings
hearing schedule has not reduced; it has actually increased
there are more emergencies due to COVID
Used to have to take yourself, a paralegal, your client, boxes of evidence to the courthouse and wait for your turn to be called; now you get a specific date/time, exhibits are submitted in advance so everyone gets to see a list and prepare ahead; it increases efficiency and transparency
Proud of how the judges have adapted as well
Tips/Best practices
Be organized
Have the exhibit list prepared well in advance
Know which page number you will be looking to in your exhibits
Start doing Zoom all the time for practice and to get comfortable
firm meetings
client consults
Don't show up right when the Zoom is starting; leads to wasted time (audio; camera; lighting; etc.)
Get familiar with the other platforms that might get used (Williamson County is using Microsoft Teams)
Be sure before objecting to things like admissibility or authentication
judges have grace toward this right now and taking a more critical eye to those types of objections
Dress like you are in-person for the hearing or client meeting, etc.
good advice for a job interview too!

Their firm and practice

Second iteration of a successful family law firm
Strong vision of who the ideal client is and who the team is they want to put together to serve those clients
Wanted to break the mold of the old way of doing things and are having success practicing in a more modern way
Create policies that benefit the clients and associate attorneys
They have more clients calling in than they can handle so they are hiring
Each associate/paralegal is considered in every decision that is made
Goal when hiring people is they would make a career here rather than a job
High-stakes litigation firm that can also provide service to those who aren't seeking litigation/conflict
Female owned and a majority-female firm; diversity/inclusion
merit-based so anyone can thrive

Advice for lawyers in practice

You can survive and thrive in hard things
Learned in law school that she could survive anything, and might even thrive in it (credits Baylor Law's Practice Court program)
You can do way more than you probably think you can, but you have to do it and practice. Bring value!
Adopt/model good business philosophies now while you are in the early part of your practice
If you don't you could fall into limiting mindsets
Be mindful of how clients are going to search/discover you
Don't depend on your law firm exclusively
Google yourself as a client would
Focus on a niche practice area that you are interested in and highlights your skills
People want experts at the highest level

Advice for lawyers in a job search

Same advice in niche practice for client development applies to job searching
Firms want to hire someone who wants to do what the firm does, specifically. So a generalist is not as attractive as someone with a niche focus (that suits the need)
Indecision about what you want to do can also create more risk for the firm who may have to replace you after a short time if you leave because it's not a good fit.
At the document stage (resume/cover letter)
Send a cover letter; shows more commitment/interest
highlight how serious you are about being a family law attorney
Proof your resume/cover letter; so many have errors
Looking for people that are hungry to become the best at what they do
someone with experience in another practice area who wants to make a transition to family law could be very attractive if they were great in their prior practice and are hungry to learn and become the best family lawyer they can be.
Addressing this (or other potential resume negatives) in a cover letter also provides an opportunities to demonstrate your advocacy skills.
Interviews
Candidates tend to focus too much on where they've been as opposed to where they are going. How does the position fit into your larger career goals?
Fit of personality and can we get along is the focus.

Final Thoughts

Holly - You can do it! Believe in yourself. Don't limit yourself.
Chris - You aren't stuck. Take this COVID time to consider what you want.

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait you most want to see in an associate: Chris - hunger/drive/self-taught; Holly - hunger
Habit has been key to your success: Chris - desire to be the best; Holly - believing in myself
Favorite App/Tool: Holly - Zoom; Chris - Clio
Favorite Social Distancing Activity: Holly - taking calls while walking the neighborhood; Chris - swimming
Favorite Legal Movie - Holly - none / The Pelican Brief; Chris - A Few Good Men

Thanks again to Holly Davis and Chris Kirker for joining us on the show!

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Daniel Hare, Robert Callahan, and Adrienne Hare do a deep dive (from a legal perspective of course) to the hit show "Hamilton".

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Brandon Lewis, partner with the Dallas litigation boutique Reid Collins & Tsai, joins us on today's show! Brandon talks about how COVID is impacting jurisdictions differently, reading great writing to improve your writing, and the importance of attention to detail.

COVID-19 Update (Recorded 7/16/20)

Shuttered offices in early March and haven't been back; firm is geared toward working remotely
They have a NYC office
Use tools: Office 365/Teams/Zoom but stay home
Courts shut everything down
different state Supreme Courts came out with new orders regularly and it was a challenge to keep up with the rules of the road for each jurisdiction
Deadlines extended / statute of limitations suspended
Some hearings have been done virtually
Some Zoom mediations
He hasn't done a Zoom deposition though others in his firm have
Mostly pushing things off so they can resume more normal operations
Learning from others how to work from home has been important
maintain schedule
get dressed in work clothes
forgive yourself for struggling and give yourself some grace

His firm/practice:

Litigation boutique of 34 attorneys specializing in complex commercial litigation; director/officer liability; financial frauds/insolvency; professional malpractice.
almost all of the work is from the plaintiff side
Offices in Austin, Dallas, Washington, D.C., and New York
There is a lot changing on the bankruptcy side in the wake of COVID
much of their work arises when a company goes bankrupt
statutes of limitations
new laws for relief
U.S. Supreme Court decision on 546e (the "Safe Harbor" provision") of the Bankruptcy Code
COVID will create a wave of bankruptcies that will ultimately lead to resulting litigation
silver lining is that fraudsters will be exposed

Advice to lawyers:

Read Mark Herrmann's The Curmudgeon's Guide to Practicing Law
short, easy read
tons of great advice
Read good writing; think like a lawyer and never write like one
Bryan Garner preaches this
Want the judge who reads your work to think Hemingway, not "comes now the plaintiff..."
Best way to write like this is read excellent writing by others
Attention to detail is crucial; table stakes
This will show up in your written work product
When you are done, print it, hold it in your hands, pick up a pen and go through it.
will help you catch typos, grammar, etc.
spell-check isn't perfect and your eyes won't see everything when it's on screen
Read it back to front (one paragraph at a time)
It is not the partner's job to catch your typos
If a partner gives you an assignment, don't just answer his/her question...solve the problem.
Just answering the question assumes the partner asked the right question in the right way, and much of the time that is not the case; assume they asked the question too narrowly or clumsily
Therefore answering the question will likely lead to a follow up question; anticipate that and take the next step to ultimately solve the problem
that makes you indispensable, and indispensable associates are the ones who become partners
Your first client is your partner; that is the person who feeds you work. Keep them happy and it will build your reputation both in the firm and beyond.
Clients will hear about you by word-of-mouth
Be purposeful/target in your community/organizational involvement
add value

Advice to lawyers seeking a job

Attention to detail in documents is key; no typos, no generic cover letters
need to know you want a job at this firm doing what we do
Experience level / writing sample that highlights that
Since most are coming from out of state, want to know why Dallas? How likely are you to stay?
They will ask you to talk about the most interesting/complex case you have worked on; can you explain it to someone who has never heard about it before? That will show them whether you can explain something to a jury/judge.

Rapid Fire questions

Trait/characteristic - good judgment
Habit key to success - learning from mistakes and borrowing from others' ideas
Favorite app/tool - Outlook Calendar and OneNote
Favorite social distancing activity - cooking for the family (especially pork chops)
Favorite legal movie - A Civil Action

Thanks again to Brandon Lewis for coming on the show!

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Brittani Rollen, appellate lawyer with McDonald Sanders in Fort Worth, joins us to talk about how lawyers will work post-COVID, managing expectations, and the importance of geography in your job search.

COVID-19 update (recorded 7/9/20)

Mid-March there was a major standstill and things slowed; but that has resolved itself and things are back up and running
They have been back in the office
Both litigation and transactions are busy again and going strong
Loves the work-from-home remote working setup
opens the door to opportunities for law firms and businesses to rethink their physical space and footprint
do we need an office for every person?
Benefits for stay-at-home parents
Learned that she/others had the discipline to work while at home and avoid distractions
Uses the formal dining room
Her firm/practice

McDonald Sanders is full-service civil law firm
15 years of practice
Wasn't sure what she wanted to do out of law school, and the firm let her try lots of different areas
Now does appellate and litigation support
Figured out she didn't want to be a first-chair trial lawyer, so she has found the right niche for her
There wasn't someone in their firm focusing on appellate so it worked out well
Opportunities abound for young lawyers to take on more of the motion/appellate practice within a firm litigation practice
COVID-19 led to the appellate courts sending everyone home, and then there was a ransomware attach on the OCA website which prevented people from working from home
Loves practicing in Fort Worth. Big enough to have a variety of businesses/industries, but small enough to have a Bar where everyone knows each other...makes it more collegial. You can get to know the judges well too.
Advice for lawyers in practice

Forming good friendships with the other associates and staff was helpful because you can learn about the firm, the law, filing/court processes
Big learning curve on how to prioritize projects because they are coming from everywhere and nobody else knows what all is on her desk
If she can give feedback to the assigning person right away regarding expectations for when it might get done, that helps a ton
Or ask the question: when do you need this by? If it is immediate and you have other pressing projects, maybe you suggest the assignment goes to someone else; alternatively: "it might be a week or two before I can get to this; is that okay?"
Figure out an email management system
keep action item emails in your inbox
move everything else into folders
easier to archive when a matter is done since they are already organized
How might Slack/Teams help?
Be eager/willing; that will lead to more/better work and it is appreciated
Don't just do the assignment at hand; try to apply it in context with the case
Think ahead to what else might be needed and do it
Be a team player; have your colleagues' backs
the culture of your firm could impact this
Advice for lawyers in job seeking

Show your connection to the town/city and why you want to be there (especially important in the smaller markets)
Thoughtful/personal cover letter; not a template that you use for every firm
What other jobs/organizations have you been involved in; translates to create business/clients
Authentic and confident
Rapid Fire

Trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate - hard working
Key habit - to do list
Favorite App / productivity tool - synced calendar w/phone
Favorite social distancing activity - reading (Beneath a Scarlet Sky; The Diplomat's Daughter)
Favorite legal movie - Suits
TheTinyTalker.com

passion project that she and her husband started to help her son with speech
created a device that has common commands (yes/no/bathroom) with buttons to push
Also a children's book to help them use the device
Thanks again to Brittani Rollen for coming on the show!

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Elizabeth Fraley, Associate Professor of Law at Baylor Law School and renowned trial lawyer joins us on today's show. Liz talks about the impact of COVID-19 on the class of 2020, how lawyers can lead the conversation around racial justice, and the importance of having a plan for your case.

COVID-19 Update (recorded July 9, 2020)

Attended a virtual faculty meeting at 4am local time from Maui
Baylor Law was fortunate because
several faculty members had been teaching remotely in the Executive LLM program and already knew how to do it;
also have great IT team to make it work; and
culture is let's figure it out and make it work
Learned a lot about Zoom technology
input options for sharing documents
students were willing to become technological innovators
July Bar Exam cancellation
Disappointed that the state wasn't more proactive about getting an online July Bar Exam
Injected more uncertainty into the 2020 grads
Take the July 4th holiday to take a break, but also to get over it and come back ready to go
Impacts start dates for those prepared to start jobs in September, as well as those who are pursuing prosecutor positions who typically need to have their license in hand before being considered
Summer Starting Class
Delayed by one week to adjust logistics
Summer/Fall enrollment numbers are steady/good
These students knew/know they would likely be doing online learning and prepared to be flexible
Fall Starting Class
Working towards in-person if possible, but preparing to be online
Largest challenge isn't in the classroom, but inside the courtroom
Profession
ABA mandated technology competence standards in 2012, but the profession hasn't consistently responded to that, and this experience could jump start things
You can do Zoom/Teams depositions and mediations
Cost savings available by utilizing tech
Concerned about remote jury trials
does it feel too much like a TV show
do criminal defendants get due process in this format?
Observing jurors both for reactions but also for conduct

Racial Equity and Racial Justice in the Law (15:30)

Racial equity has been cast aside for an unthinkably long time
Grateful the nation seems to be meaningfully look at it
Systematically discriminate across multiple sectors
Judge Tonya Parker in Dallas has done great work on implicit bias and jury service
Educate yourself on implicit bias
Much of the discussion of the topic is conducted in a way not likely to lead to consensus
Social media pushes everything to extremes
Black Lives Matter v. All Lives Matter is a fallacy
Lawyers can be good in guiding civil discourse and we need people who can facilitate those discussions; key to getting us to meaningful outcomes
How do we look at statues of people from a different time and what lens do we use to look at them?
How do we safely allow police to do their important job in a way that doesn't discriminate?

Her practice

Trial practice in healthcare litigation space; trying lawsuits for doctors/hospitals who had been sued
She also developed a practice later in her career where other lawyers would bring her cases late in the game and try them
The cases that were in good shape were those where the lawyers clearly had a plan
started with a true understanding of the legal elements / what are the causes of actions
what are the damages and how can we prove them?
If someone took the time up front to do an early case assessment, those are the cases/files that are in the best shape later
(This connects to what Wesley Lotz mentioned in this episode)
She is beginning to slow down practice
If you chase too rabbits you won't catch either one
But it is helpful to stay sharp and relevant
Helping mentor young female lawyers on cases
Important because if we don't give others a chance to try cases, we aren't going to have new trial lawyers
10-15 year lawyers who are ready to move up to a more sophisticated level

When hiring lawyers

Would call the law school professors and ask for their recommendations
Very hard to train new lawyers in a small firm trial practice
Come into the interview prepared
Candidate had two pages of thoughtful questions based on research she had done on the firm and how the position fit into her career goals
Have questions for the interviewer!
Do the interviewer and the candidate communicate well together

Rapid Fire Questions

Important trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate - preparedness
Key habit - early riser
Favorite app/tool - remote working platform
Favorite social distancing activity - kayaking at sunrise
Favorite legal movie - To Kill A Mockingbird and Legally Blonde

Thanks again to Professor Elizabeth Fraley for joining us on today's show!

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Haley Turner, partner and education lawyer with Walsh Gallegos in Austin, joins us on the show today. Haley talks about the benefits of lawyering by Zoom, learning from those around you, and how to get attention with your resume.

COVID update (interview recorded June 25, 2020)

reality of practicing through video conferencing v. in-person
removes a lot of superficial posturing and distractions and lets you get right to the lawyering
nine hour evidentiary hearing on Zoom recently, swearing in a witness with a camera aimed up her nose
hopes much of this will remain after COVID is gone; lets take ourselves less seriously and the law more seriously - less emphasis on posturing and pea-cocking
enjoys seeing her clients more frequently via Zoom in place of phone calls; will phone calls go the way of the fax machine?
She didn't know anything about practicing through technology before this
making sure you maintain confidentiality when sharing documents with the other side during depos/hearings is an issue

Race and the law

we need to reflect on how we've handled ourselves in the past
educate ourselves on the facts and issues
must advocate for our clients without putting forth negative/out-of-date concepts and stereotypes; don't have to sacrifice our morals
purpose of the legal system is to ferret out injustice

(edit that transition)

Haley's practice

multiple offices across Texas and one in New Mexico
represent public K-12 school districts
she serves as general counsel for a number of districts across the state
they have a litigation team, a transactions team, a special education team
lots of travel all across the state to visit these school districts, many of which are in rural/remote communities, attending school board meetings, etc.
COVID and schools
in some ways there is precedent with hurricane-created school emergencies and closures along the Gulf Coast, but this is another level
how can schools fulfill their obligations to employees and students during this environment
school districts are on the front-line
largest employer in many cities
largest budget in many cities
How do you plan to bring 000s of kids into a closed space with adults and prevent the spread of the virus?
Mix of virtual and in-person options at the parents-choice the most likely at this point
Impacts all the other non-COVID issues as well
Supreme Court ruling on application to Title VII to sex discrimination in the workplace; will it impact Title IX?
new Title IX regulations out of the Department of Education, especially related to the requirements on school's investigations and each party's rights

Advice to lawyers

understand that you don't know much when you are getting started, but it's true, and you'll be more successful if you understand that and operate from that mindset
Be open to learning and taking input from others
take vacations (even small ones) to give yourself a break and not burn out
doesn't mean take two weeks to go to Spain
identify what some effective releases from this level of stress
go for a run with no cell phone?
long weekend?
No gap years!
Become an effective communicator
open, clear
asking questions; admitting when you don't know something
respectfully pushing back if you disagree with something
Be willing to put in the work to become great at your craft

Advice to job seekers

don't submit form cover letters and just change the names
if it's not clear that you took the time to tailor the cover letter to this job and this firm, it's an automatic no
make an effort and show that you understand what the firm does and that you want to learn
highlight any diverse and unique work experience
add an eye-catching item on your resume so you are memorable (ex. candidate put that she had won a hot dog eating contest)
make good eye contact in an interview and articulate what your career goals are and why this position fits in
appropriately show your personality and values

Final thoughts

if you don't know something, don't act like you know; go and learn about it
it's okay not to know

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: confidence and self-reflection / self-aware
Key habit: confidence and self-reflection / self-aware
Favorite app/tool: post-its
Favorite social distancing activity: parking garage happy hours
Favorite legal movie: NONE!

Thanks again to Haley Turner for joining us on the show!

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Derek Gilliland, trial lawyer with Sorey, Gilliland, & Hull in Longview joins us on the show today. He talks about having a positive attitude, closing the loop, and self-awareness in an interview.

COVID-19 update (as of 6/18/20)

Closed the office in March and worked remotely
Last two weeks has somewhat returned to business as usual
Longview hasn't been hit as hard and didn't close down long; everyone is mostly business as usual
Case/court-wise things are still constantly changing
Forced them to go more electronic with record keeping, etc.
Some judges have held hearings via Zoom
Gregg County Bar CLE on the topic from the local chief judge
Even Gregg County District Clerk is by appointment only
Prefers to be with the witness even if all the lawyers aren't (just to make sure there isn't coaching of the witness or signaling that isn't getting picked up on the video)
If you are using exhibits in the depo, you need to get them to the court reporter ahead of time, which kind of tips your hand to the other side...so you have to think strategically...maybe include lots of exhibits even if you only plan to ask about one or two
Some parties will insist on delaying depos until they can be taken in-person
Clients have been understanding; they are a lot quicker to call than come into the office
variety of approach to masks/handshakes/etc.

His firm and practice

Started in January 2020
Plaintiff-side civil litigation: personal injury and intellectual property
He was an engineer prior to law school and then started practicing in 1998; practiced in Austin, Waco and now Longview
Business interruption insurance has become a hot topic; we'll see if it turns into cases; will insurance companies pay or not?
Pending legislation with immunity riders for COVID-liability and even going beyond that
Longivew practice -
80,000 population with a 6A high school
small legal community which helps keep people in check; you will come across other lawyers multiple times
great quality of life
Can get civil cases in federal court moving because they aren't overrun with lots of criminal cases

Advice for lawyers in practice

Have a positive attitude
Be self-motivated; when you finish something go find somebody and figure out how you can help them
Don't rely on others to initiate giving work to you; go ask for it!
Partners have a ton going on and they may not stop and think about how an associate could help, but they would if you asked them
Lack of follow up or failure to close the loop is a problem
don't just sit back and wait
get someone on the phone if that's what it takes
that's often the last thing a young associate wants to do

Advice for lawyers in the job search

grades and/or prior success
show that you are a self-starter
hobbies can be a clue
be a good teammate
Lack of self-awareness is an issue; don't talk for 15 minutes w/o engaging the interviewers in the conversation; don't take the whole interview talking about themselves
Lack of preparedness; did they google the firm and bios? If they didn't research prior to the interview, will they do the research necessary for their cases?

Parting Thought

Positive attitude and perseverance are keys

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: ambition
Key habit: persistence
Favorite app/tool: Goodreader
Favorite social distancing activity: wake-boarding / lake
Favorite legal movie: My Cousin Vinny

Thanks again to Derek Gilliland for coming on the show!

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James Howard, partner and business lawyer in the Austin office of Naman, Howell, Smith, & Lee, talks about technology in the law, trying to make everyone happy, and understanding the audience for your resume.

COVID-19 Update (as of 6/11/20)

Slowly/cautiously trying to return to normal; certainly not 100%; he has been in the office for the past couple of weeks; wearing mask
About 1/2 the lawyers are working from home with the other half coming in some
Practice is better because of adjustments over the past few months; at the beginning the economic impact was unknown and clients were worried; walked them through practical impact of COVID (policies, etc.) to legislation (PPP, etc.)
Clients are seeing that they aren't bankrupt, they do have revenue, so there are reasons to be optimistic
Resiliency of the businesses in Texas and in the community has been impressive; their ability to adjust to the new ways of doing business has been key
Should be well-prepared if something like this happens again

Race and the legal profession

Lawyers often see a problem and want to solve it, but (white) lawyers especially need to do some self-evaluation and thinking before taking actions
Need to make space for non-white lawyers to have a voice since our industry is mostly white; can't be co-opted and make it about white people
Lawyers are uniquely situated to work with city governments and representatives; natural leaders in the community and opportunities to advocate for policy changes; in fact there is a responsibility to do that
Key changes need to be made at the local level, and lawyers are well-positioned to help make that change
Example: criminal lawyers taking cases pro bono from protesters who get arrested

His firm/practice

Business lawyer; firm has offices in Fort Worth, Austin, Waco, and San Antonio; full-service mid-size firm
Legal tech is big as he represents clients in the telecommunications space; software-as-a-service (SaaS); etc. this has led to him evaluating how lawyers do business re: tech (OR NOT!)
How can tech make my practice run more smoothly? (mentioned Squadcast (podcast recording tool) and Calendly (calendar tool) that we use to set up and record the podcast as neat tools)

Advice to lawyers in practice

Consider the partner who assigned you work as your client; give them work like you would if it were the actual client; the goal is the partner takes the work, attaches it to an email to the client and hits send.
won't happen immediately but should be the goal
Easy to get too invested in what others think/do, but you can't make everyone happy all the time
Don't dwell on this
Sometimes there are no more compromises and the answer has to be no
Be willing to go into advocate mode and have the hard conversation with the other side

Advice to lawyers when seeking a job

If you are applying for a business job, you have to make sure your resume/cover letter is error-free; if not then it's a big problem
Write to your reader; a three-page resume with 500 bullets in eight-point font is not getting read by lawyers
Say what you need to say in one page
Don't hide your education at the bottom or what you are currently doing
People can be overly stiff in an interview, so try to be both professional and conversational; the interviewer wants to see if they can put you in front of a client and in social situations
During his OCI summer clerkship interview with Naman Howell, they asked him why he wanted to work in Waco, to which he said he didn't...that he wanted to work in Austin...that led to a rejection letter that he still has...wound up back at Naman Howell through a lateral process later on
Good reminder to research the firm, see/know where they have opportunities both in office locations and practice areas

Final thoughts

Pay attention to your mental health
Lawyers tend to overwork, so find a way to unplug
TLAP if you need it

Rapid fire questions

Trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: interested
Key habit: go one more step
Favorite app/tool: laptop dock
Favorite social distancing activity: lots of bicycling (very Austin)
Favorite legal movie: Runaway Jury

Thanks again to James Howard for coming on the show!

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Shannon Quadros of Kilmer Crosby & Quadros joins us on today's show. He talks business development, diversity in law firms, adding value to clients, and the Exorcism of Emily Rose!

COVID-19 update

Past hurricanes in Houston had already pushed them to have the capacity to go completely remote/cloud
How they deliver services has certainly changed
Clients have to adjust to not seeing them in person
Signatures by docusign
Attending hearings on Zoom
But turn the client's video off!
Houston legal community has been impressive and have adapted well
legal system is essential and has to keep functioning to preserve the democracy
Opposing counsel who is typically hard-line and tough are showing more flexibility
Would prefer to move minor hearings to Zoom/phone to avoid the cattle call docket and the hours it takes for ultimately a 10 minute hearing
will be more efficient and save the client money
Better for the PR of the profession

His practice/firm

Construction/real estate attorney
80% litigation
20% transactions
Two partners who do commercial bankruptcy with small and mid-size companies
Other partner is corporate/business attorney
Bankruptcy
Throughout 2019 there was an expectation that brick/mortar retail would be a bankruptcy , and then COVID accelerated it
Oil/gas was already seeing issues from a lack of demand
End of summer is where it will likely show up
What value are we delivering? Key question that COVID has highlighted.
Are we adding value to clients? Can tech/AI deliver for less cost to the client?

Advice to lawyers

Start business development early/often
Your classmates will be the biggest source of referrals, so stay in touch with them!
Your colleagues or even opposing counsel will eventually be in-house and potential clients
Develop an expertise and deliver a CLE (use your local bar or Inn of Court)
Have a long-term mentality; putting in effort now toward business development will pay off eight and ten years from now
Take the lead on a bar sub-committee
The day after you get a job you should start networking like you need a job; you won't be in the same job for life
Everyone should be able to say what you do; it's how you develop your reputation/brand
Be specific. It may feel limiting, but in fact you will get more referrals by making sure people know you are the "X" lawyer
Most referrals will come from other lawyers
Judge Keith Ellison: in response to those who say they want to do "complex commercial litigation" he says "who will do the simple commercial litigation?"

When hiring associates

Likes to see people who didn't go K-Law School and has a bit of life/work experience outside of school; some business experience is helpful
Likes people who have worked with a judge
Needs hustle and someone who can take a case and run with it relatively quickly
If they do what I want them to do, they won't need me after a few years because they will be able to manage a practice on their own

Diversity and Race in the legal profession

Diversity is not getting better in the legal profession in Texas
Houston is one of the most diverse cities in the country, and if the profession doesn't reflect the community, how can we deliver the best services to clients? So it is an economic necessity as well
People live different experience, and if those aren't at the table we can't ethically serve our clients
People of color and women are not represented in equity ownership
law firms aren't fostering their success and longevity
Study
Criticism of writing for people with names that sound like a person of color was harsher than those with an Anglo-sounding name
People of color get treated differently for bad reasons; the law is supposed to be blind
perhaps now there is more of an acknowledgment of a problem which is an important first step

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: timeliness
Key Habit: networking
Favorite app/productivity tool: Evernote
Favorite social distancing: evening walks
Favorite legal movie: Legally Blonde? Nah...The Exorcism of Emily Rose

Thanks again to Shannon Quadros for coming on the show!

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Robert Tsai of Houston family law firm Walters Gilbreath (waltersgilbreath.com) joins us on the show. He talks about getting practical experience early, building a network, and a unique interview prep technique.

COVID-19 Update

In the beginning it was crazy because so many law firms weren't able to quickly move online, but they were prepared and ready to go
Dropbox/Google Drive/Slack already in place
Adapting to Zoom hearings
Gradually shifting from no hearings to Zoom hearings; still no jury trials or in-person hearings; trial dates reset/delayed
Take advantage of the time you would have been in court to meet with clients, prepare in more depth
More judges are deciding issues on submission only (no hearings) which can be a good thing, especially if it is a non-controversial or non-contested issue
Saves lawyer time and client money
Hopefully that sticks moving forward

His practice/firm

Family law litigation firm with Houston, Austin, and a new Dallas office
Litigation firm; if there is a position they can argue on behalf of their client they are going to do it
New/changing case law:
How you value business entities or a spouse/partner's interest in the business
Fraud on community and whether one spouse breaches duty to the other
Lots of practice areas can be implicated under family law (e.g. shareholder actions if there are multi-member LLCs)

Advice to lawyers

Before becoming a family law litigator, he did insurance litigation. This allowed him to take a case all the way through jury verdict and get great experience. Be willing to say yes to opportunities, make mistakes and learning, commit unbillable time
Go to as much CLE as you can; network with other lawyers in your field and learn from them
informal settlement talks go much smoother if there is a relationship with the other lawyer and a level of trust has been built
Don't be afraid to do something; don't be afraid to fail; it will build your confidence to try things, make mistakes, learn, and get better
his voice cracked on the record in his very first depo!
fake confidence until you have it; back it up by putting in the work
Attention to detail is critical
Don't be limited to the assigned task; think about the next step and how the task fits into the bigger picture of the case
Create a network so that you have possible sources of new clients/business when you get to that point
Other lawyers can be your best source of referrals
Keep in touch with your classmates from law school

When hiring lawyers

Practical experience is key, which is why it is so important for lawyers to jump in and get that practical experience as early as possible.
highlight this experience on resume
Research the firm ahead of time and think through how you might fit into the firm and its future
Check their lawyers out in the courtroom and watch them work! Will give you a taste of how they do things. Also could be fodder for questions in the interview

Rapid Fire Questions

Name one trait/characteristic you want to see in an associate: perseverance
What habit has been key to your success: task list
Favorite app/tool: Slack; create a channel for each case and a channel for law questions
Favorite social distancing activity: Zoom board games
Favorite legal movie: To Kill A Mockingbird

Thanks again to Robert Tsai for coming on the show!

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Kevin Mosley of Grotefeld Hoffmann in Austin joins us on on today's show. Kevin talks about building relationships, being proactive and not being afraid of interview silence.

COVID-19 Update

Everyone is remote/virtual
Each office has a weekly video call each Friday to talk about COVID impact and timelines to reopen
Firm has great leadership and follows the science/safety
His subrogation practice has slowed the progress of cases with depos/hearings put off (though there have been some virtual depos)
Many of their clients already work from home, so they get it
Hopes old school mentalities of you aren't working if you aren't in your office chair will go away as this season has proven you can be productive from home
Expects there will be more humanity in the legal profession as this has made lots of people re-prioritize what is important

His firm and practice

Primarily insurance subrogation
some coverage and defense
Seven offices around the nation; headquarters in is Chicago
Much of the work is wildfire litigation
California a big driver of this
Texas too (Bastrop / Spicewood)
Birthed the Austin office of their firm
Lots of autonomy with the offices but they do work together quite a bit

Advice for lawyers in practice

Communication and relationships are key, especially with clients and opposing counsel
take an interest in people and their point of view
don't always have to be adversarial
Slow down; rely on others; don't think that you know everything
Be willing/able to take the next step / be proactive
If the answer to a question requires something else, do that something else without waiting for an assignment
Ask for more and speak up / measured deference
(Daniel's Linkedin post re: anticipation for the next project and seeing the bigger picture)
The firm has hired law clerks that have shown this specific skill into full-time positions

Advice for lawyers seeking a job

Make your application documents polished and consistent
Their firm is misspelled in lots of cover letters
The firm will assume you will put the same amount of care into work product
In interviews:
make good eye contact; matters for depos/court appearance
shows respect
Don't anticipate questions and start talking before the question is finished
take a moment to think about the question
Shows preparedness and that they are measured
Also consider ending an answer by asking a question back to the interviewer (e.g. "how do you approach that?"); can create a more conversational interview and demonstrate interest
You don't have to be certain of what you want to do; in fact it can sometimes come across as disingenuous if you don't have experience in something (you may THINK you have interest...)
If you are struggling in the job market, seek out someone who dealt with the last tough market ('09-'10) for advice and encouragement

Rapid Fire Questions

Most important trait/characteristic in an associate: humility
What habit has been key to your success: relationships and communication
Favorite app/productivity tool: Google Docs; time to decompress (play Wordscapes)
Favorite social distancing activity: Peloton/working out
Favorite legal movie: The Lincoln Lawyer

Thanks again to Kevin Mosley for coming on the show!

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Jennie Knapp of Underwood Law Firm in Amarillo, talks about seeing the big picture, authenticity in interviews, and practical tools to be a better lawyer.

COVID-19 Update

Working at home since mid-March
Handful of people working in the office but not many
Challenge in the beginning to set up the technology
Realized how much they could do online/remote
lots of things that used to be kept in paper files no longer do, which is a good thing
Lots of employment law work and PPP
She is expecting a lot of new matters pop up over the next year
Has been easy to do hearings/depos remotely, but mostly easy ones without many exhibits.

Her Firm and Practice

Always wanted to do something different every day and that's what she gets to do
Amarillo is a diverse economy so lots of different clients (healthcare, insurance, trucking, meatpacking) and
recessions don't hit as hard
small legal community so you get to know the other lawyers well
Changes to the Anti-SLAPP statute are significant, as the Billing Records Affidavit 18.001 of Civil Practices & Remedies Code

Advice to Lawyers In Practice

Get a copy of the scheduling order so you know what your deadlines are!
Be aware of the bigger picture; not just the discrete project that you're working on, but how it is going to move the ball forward in the litigation
are there other arguments you think of that you could make, but it wasn't asked of you to do? Make them or suggest it!
If all you're doing is the assigned project and nothing more, that doesn't stand out
Be socially aware with your partners and supervisors, and figure out when and how much to talk with them
Don't bug morning people with stuff in the morning. Or if someone is a morning person, use that time.
Don't push up against deadlines; get things to partners early so your work can be reviewed and submitted timely
Treat staff well and learn from them.
Re: business development, become a good lawyer first and learn how to relate to your partner's clients
then get involved in one bar group and one other extra-curricular board/group that you have interest in
After you've practice for a little while, you will get a better idea of what you want to do and then you can start telling people that (e.g. she started telling people she practiced appellate law and that's the work she started getting)

Advice to Lawyers Job Hunting

Why do you want to be in the city?
If firms have multiple offices let the firm know which you are interested in.
What practice area are you pursuing (don't just list what is on the firm's website)?
Be honest/specific
They don't want to hire someone who just wants a job; that person is likely to leave in two years
Also be honest in what you put on your resume and be prepared to talk about it
Example of the candidate who put "likes finding good breakfast taco places" on their resume but couldn't name a place they liked
Pat Lencioni - The Ideal Team Player - look for people who are hungry, humble, and (emotionally) smart

Rapid Fire Questions

Trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate - attention to detail
Key habit - working according to your energy levels (i.e. do the hard work when you have the most energy and are most productive)
Cal Newport's Deep Work is a helpful guide (Daniel)
Favorite app/tool - paper calendar for just her deadlines (online calendar is more detailed); WestLaw plugin for Microsoft Word called Drafting Assistant (creates table of authorities; prints all cases cited in the document; much more)
Favorite social distancing activity - walks
Favorite legal movie - The Pelican Brief

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Tyler Topper is a partner with Burdett, Morgan, Williamson, & Boykin in Amarillo. Tyler talks about eminent domain, getting organized, and preparing for the interview.

COVID-19 Update

All staff/employees can work from home
helps with lack of school/daycare
Business clients are dealing with PPP loans, company policies, so employment lawyers are very busy
Judges and legal community have done a good job working together to find solutions
phone hearings
Zoom hearings
Hopes that going forward remote working can become more available

Tyler's firm/practice

Firm is 35 years old and is full-service
Do everything except criminal and family law
He practices in eminent domain and administrative law
represents landowners exclusively
when government or government authorized utility needs land to build out infrastructure, he helps landowners get compensated fairly and negotiates terms of any easement
Small group that practice in the area so you develop relationships with most of the people on all sides of the issues
High-speed rail project
Amarillo
He grew up in the Texas panhandle so it was home for him
200,000 population
People are great
Small legal community that allows you to build relationships with colleagues and opposing counsel; bar treats each other with respect
Great place to raise a family
Diverse economic base with multiple industries
oil/gas
farming/ranching
government
medical/health
Diverse topography - hills/canyons/water

Advice for lawyers

Worked for two different partners as a young associate, and key lessons he learned were
attention to detail and
the business-side of practicing law
Be organized
translates into work product
Bring work back to the partner finished (or very close to finished), and ask specific questions instead of general
Don't be arrogant; always be willing to learn
Don't bad mouth former employers
Prioritize your health and taking care of yourself

When they are hiring

No typos
Grammar/mistakes
Personalize cover letters (not just changing the names)
Highlight ties to the area
Bad answer to the question why you want this job? "I'm just looking for a job"...need to show you want THIS job
Be prepared for the interview; know something about the interviewers
(if you don't know who your interviewers are going to be...ask! Shows you are getting prepared)

Rapid Fire Questions

Most important trait in an associate - dependable
Key habit - organization
Favorite app/tool - Excel
Favorite social distancing activity - running
Favorite legal movie - A Few Good Men

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Brandy Austin is our guest today, and she leads The Brandy Austin Law Firm, a litigation and general practice firm in the Dallas/Fort Worth market. Brandy talks about the benefits of Zoom hearings, the always changing personal injury practice, and rooting out entitlement.

COVID-19 Updates

Interesting to see who does well working from home, and who doesn't
Lots of people want to stay working from home, so not sure what it will look like after
90% of clients have done great. They don't need the attorney or paralegal in the office; just a receptionist or someone who can take their payment or documents, etc.
Not nearly as many personal injury cases
since people aren't driving and getting into accidents;
people aren't going out or to people's houses so no no slip/falls and no dog bites
Court
Zoom hearings in some courts; not all
Has a jury trial set for October but courts are preparing for no jury trials in the late fall/winter
Waivers for in-person hearings coming?
Nothing is universal
What has been learned?
No need to create office space for everyone or make people come to office
Quick hearings by Zoom (eliminates the drive time to the courthouse, waiting time, etc.)

Her Firm and Practice

General practice firm with four lawyers and about a dozen staff
personal injury
family
probate/estate planning
business litigation
bankruptcy
criminal
Personal Injury
changes every legislative session
filing requirements for affidavits (for example)
Also local rules are important, and sometimes need to be challenged!
Dallas v. Arlington v. Fort Worth
Dallas lawyers would attach a motion for sanctions in all their pleadings; completely shocked her!
She filed one in Tarrant County once when it was very deserved and freaked out the other side
Family law is night and day between Tarrant and Dallas counties

Advice for Lawyers

Impostor syndrome is a real thing, and doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing
Rarely is something black/white; almost always a gray case to make!
Ask for help from other attorneys who you don't practice with; they will help you!
Get involved in organizations and take advantage of list servs; she now has a well-stocked portfolio of trial briefs for any occasion
Texas Lawyers Facebook group or your law school alumni FB group (Daniel)
Have a great work ethic
Try to resolve the problem before bringing it to your supervising lawyer; they can work with you from there, but won't want to help if you haven't tried to solve it yet
Entitlement issues. For example, younger lawyers often feel like they should have a legal assistant or paralegal to draft things for them
You have to know everything about your case and be able to take responsibility for all of it
Draft the document and then send it to the paralegal/assistant! That will go a long way, and let you learn at the same time.

When she is hiring:

She always asks for resumes in PDF format; if a candidate doesn't do that, they are not considered. Attention to detail!
She will always stop and look if the resume is visually interesting
Wants to see some applicable legal experience
(Daniel tip) Add your name to the file name of the document (e.g. "SallySmithResume" instead of "Resume"); also know that the more unsual or extravagant the resume, the higher risk/reward
She has her office administrator call and do a screening interview to look for entitlement problems and whether they are tech savvy
Especially if someone is coming from Big Law where they have had so many resources that won't be available in the smaller firm

Parting Shot:

Mental health. She sees it in her staff and younger associates. Make time for yourself and set boundaries. Create outlets for anxiety.
TLAP

Rapid Fire Questions

One trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: diversity
Key habit: show up
Favorite app/tool: Macbook
Favorite social distancing activity: building a playhouse for the kids from scratch; Doordash
Favorite legal movie: The Devil's Advocate; Legally Blonde

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Wesley Lotz is a partner with the litigation firm Fulkerson Lotz in Houston. Wes talks about early case assessment, client service, and the three sources of business.

COVID-19 Impact

Employees working remotely but still moving forward if not a bit more slowly than usually
Not a big fan of lengthy conference calls, but they do one each Monday morning via Zoom to make sure everyone is on the same page
Uses Agile Law for remote depositions which works well
All Houston hearings/trials cancelled through May; has a hearing scheduled in Fort Bend County in June
some tech-savvy courts are using Zoom for hearings
But most hearings are being decided by submission on the written product
Some cases have become less important so clients are ready to move on/settle, but most cases have been less likely to settle since there isn't a pending deadline or trial date to push the parties toward settlements

His firm/practice

trial litigation boutique firm with seven attorneys and 12 total employees
focus on civil litigation, trials, and arbitrations
lots of fiduciary and partnership disputes
lots of healthcare and oil/gas industry
some IP and non-compete disputes
Expects fallout in the energy market with oil prices low
He began his career at a large firm and quickly moved to a small litigation boutique which gave him opportunities to 2nd chair large cases and take on more responsibility at an early stage
Things to think about: are you able to develop your skills and serve clients
Houston is a large legal market with a diverse client base (health, energy, IP/tech)
Lots of collegiality; fewer sharp elbows than other markets

Advice for lawyers

This is a service profession, so you need to put yourself in the client's shoes so you can understand what they need, what they can afford, etc.
Attention to detail is key
Develop a mastery of the facts and law in the case; early case assessment to develop the key themes so that you can focus your time/energy as you work up the case
Turn in quality product that is ready to file and advances the ball as much as possible
Take responsibility for the work you're doing and don't blame others; be honest/open with issues that come up in your case
Three sources of business
existing client bases - do good work for them
word of mouth - friends/social relationships referring business
other lawyers - keep up with your classmates; opposing counsel, bar events
Work/life balance is a great/elusive concept
law is a service profession so sometimes you have to put client needs first
be generous/gracious when the demand/need is low, so that when the demand/need is high (prepping for trial, etc.) people feel good about ramping up

When pursuing opportunities

Academics are important, but more important is an advocacy background
Be well-rounded with good personal skills and ability to relate well with judges, jurors since in their firm the person will be quickly asked to
Highlight overcoming obstacles and be self-starters and motivated/independence
If lateraling, what experience did they get out of that position, and what did they not like about their current role to make sure the same circumstances don't also exist here
The degree of preparation ahead of the interview is an insight into how they will prepare their cases

Rapid fire

Important trait in an associate - Self-starter
Key habit - early case assessment
Favorite app/productivity tool - iPad/notability, Smart apps for lawyers
Favorite social distancing activity - walking in the park with new child; basketball
Favorite legal movie - My Cousin Vinny

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Anna Greenberg, a personal injury lawyer with Blizzard Law in Houston, talks about moving cases forward during COVID-19, not underestimating yourself, and becoming a creative problem solver.

COVID update -

Still maintaining a full case load and moving cases forward
Staying on track with current deadlines
Regular Zoom calls with the staff to stay on the same page
Clients have been reassured their cases are moving forward; still filing things; still pursuing remote discovery; still taking their calls
Everyone has perseverance when it comes to the law; staff has been so committed; the care for their clients doesn't stop with COVID-19

Anna's firm and practice

Blizzard Law handles mass tort pharmaceutical and medical device litigation and some personal injury cases and some medical malpractice cases
trans mesh
Talcum powder
IVC filter
Her focus is more on medical malpractice cases
tough in Texas because of damage caps on non-economic damages
Human trafficking cases against the hotel industry
Lots of statutory hurdles to clear in medical malpractice cases; quick deadlines to prove up your case
Ed Blizzard (her dad and founder of the firm) is so well respected in this area of the law; they have tried a case together now and she is learning so much from working with him and watching him

Practicing law and raising a family

Challenging but doable!
recruiter ruled her out for partnership at a firm because she mentioned wanting to start a family...made her so mad!
Very efficient at work and don't waste time so she can get home to see her daughter

Advice for young lawyers

Don't underestimate yourself; can be inexperienced but also valuable
You can become the expert in certain aspects of the case and be a go-to person
Did this in her first MDL case and led to her being able to attend the prestigious/exclusive Rodney Jew sessions
Hard work always stands out
Take initiative; don't do the bare minimum; offer ideas; demonstrate leadership
creativity and problem solving is key
For business development, networking can only get you so far
Get familiar with how to gather cases through the internet

When looking to get hired at a law firm

Strong writing is key, so either in the cover letter or writing sample it is important to showcase this skill
If a writing sample isn't asked for and you are a strong writer, volunteer to submit one
In an interview it's important to show that you care about the work and that you want to be there; don't be arrogant and act like you are interviewing the firm

Future of work

Work with trial director programs that can be used in depos and at trial
if you can run it yourself during the depo it will benefit the firm and client
also good to be able to respond if there is an issue at trial

Rapid Fire Qs

One trait you want to see in an associate: attention to detail
Key Habit: over-preparation
Favorite App/Tool: Adobe!
Favorite Social Distancing Activity: playing with water balloons with her daughter
Favorite Legal Movie: A Few Good Men

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James Amaro, of the personal injury firm Amaro Law Firm, joins us to talk about practicing a heavy case load during COVID-19, how to be useful in all areas of life, and a key missed opportunity job seekers make on resumes.

COVID update (as of 4/9/20)

Firm has been tech savvy for a long time; most of the intake is virtual, but after that people do like to come in
30 people in the office in Houston that had to go remote
hired consultants and really looked hard at how best to do this
High risk employees were prioritized
VOIP investment
Much of the litigation show went one, and filing deadlines were continuing to come up
Daily morning meeting/update
Keep everyone on their top three things they need to do (hardest first)
Monitoring the COVID data regularly to try and stay up to date and be ready to adjust
He had only done a few Zoom depos prior to this
Some insurance companies don't want to use Zoom due to security issues and want to use WebEx
Also need to learn depo-specific technology (exhibit presentations)
Courts and orders have been a challenge
Several state courts have been inconsistent
Federal courts are doing their own thing
Keep the team updated on changes
Tough for new graduates with the Bar exam and entering the profession during this

His firm/practice

Started in insurance defense before jumping out on his own in 2005 to work on the BP explosion in Texas City
Actually was going to start a job at the SEC in New York, then 9/11 happened.
Almost 100% personal injury now (he had done some insurance work earlier - tried the first Hurricane Ike case to verdict)
Still involved in the Deep Water Horizon case (10 years old)
Lots of brain injury and trucking cases on top of the typical car wreck case
Wanted to build a firm that he would have wanted to join coming out of law school
thinks millennials get a bad rap
COVID has dramatically reduced the traffic on the roads, which lowers car wreck numbers

Advice for young lawyers

Be used and useful
help where you can help; not just at the firm but in all areas of your life
check in on people; let them know you care / thinking of them
try to set aside personal/financial ambition; that will come over time
take advantage of professional development opportunities books/seminars/etc.
if you want to build your own book of business or clients, establish relationships with lawyers who have the infrastructure to front cases and ask them if you can help
over time of doing great work and providing great customer service will lead to positive reviews and referrals, which leads to business (Mattress Mack example; Zappos book)

Advice for lawyers applying for jobs

Looks for people who did well in school (reflects effort)
No typos
justify text in every document
put your strengths up first; no cutting/pasting of typical resume bullets; be specific about how what you did helped someone
put some conversation starters in your resume
prepare well for the interview; show what you can add to the team in value
show you want to be there for some amount of time, so the firm doesn't feel like it might be wasting its investment if you leave after a year or two

Rapid Fire Questions

trait/characteristic you most want to see in an associate: realness/authenticity
key habit: being real / true to yourself
favorite app/productivity tool: Outlook
favorite social distancing activity: spending time with 5-month old daughter
favorite legal movie: A Civil Action

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Dallas bankruptcy lawyer Stephanie Curtis joins us, and we talk about maximizing work from home, how to always be prepared, and social media tips for job seekers.

COVID-19 update

Following Dallas County Shelter-in
Create a good working environment in their home!
She had created a workspace for her sixth grade daughter before all of this hit, and she commandeered it
Smartboard plus monitor plus laptop
Remote in to the firm server
Set a schedule; wear work clothes; prioritize
Go into your kitchen, make lunch, and eat!
Could change the way we work going forward
(Think about going through this 20 years ago without the tools/tech we have available - Daniel)

Her firm/practice:

She started at Haynes and Boone and then went to Jones Day, before forming her own law firm in 1998.
Decided six years ago not to come home and work in the evening and ditched her home computer, but now the laptop is back
She and her partner (Mark Castillo) both came from Big Law, and they do high-end work
Important for her was to not have bureaucracy in the firm
Ford v. Ferrari - no passing around the red folder!
Small/efficient/talented people
Seeing an uptick in Chapter 11/Reorganizations among business
Also following numerous changes in the laws
including state comptroller office
so much that you have to know enough to identify the issue
Important to be reading and staying up on changes and news that impacts your practice areas/clients/industry

Advice to lawyers:

Always be prepared
Predict what might come up in this meeting or what the court might ask you
Have a notepad/pen/pencil with you anytime you go into a meeting or to see a partner
mortifying when she invites an associate to a meeting or call, and the associate doesn't bring something to take notes on, or has something with them but doesn't take notes when they should be
(Be ready to anticipate needs - Daniel)
Anxiety can prevent lawyers from doing this
You need to be taking action and making mistakes, or you aren't learning
When applying for jobs
Clean up / pay attention to your social media accounts - employers will look at them!
poor grammar
inappropriate conduct
it might be your first impression with the interviewer
Have a LinkedIn account with a professional headshot
Make sure cover letters are written/addressed to the specific firm/job you are applying for
Integrity/honesty/strategic are keys and must be done in combination
Current environment requires us to work with the other side to come to resolutions on as many issues as possible
Submit agreed orders
Take advantage of Zoom depositions

Rapid Fire Questions

Most important characteristic/trait in an associate - work ethic
Key habit - preparedness
Favorite app/productivity tool - banking app (can pay employees/vendors/everyone on their phone)
Favorite social distancing activity - cooking
Favorite legal movie - My Cousin Vinny

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Derek Cook of the Midland law firm Lynch, Chappel and Alsup is our guest today. We talk about taking care of yourself, practicing law in West Texas, and the early days of practicing law in a COVID-19 world.

Early COVID response (recorded March 19)

At-risk people work from home
Jury trials cancelled; non essential hearings postponed
Public events slowed
Low/dropping oil price is also a factor with their clients
Mediation/depo/etc. going on a case by case

Midland/West Texas Practice

Derek grew up in Wichita Falls; undergrad in DFW; law school at Baylor; thought he would wind up in Dallas or Fort Worth
He came out during the low point for new lawyer hiring after the '08 recession
Even though he was on law review and had good grades, it was hard to find a job
Baylor's Career Development Office sent out notice for this great Midland firm, and it was a great opportunity that, once he sold his wife on it, was the right fit
Litigation that pretty much all ties back to oil/gas
Collection
royalty payments
leases
individuals and entity clients
More camaraderie here than in most places; you're going to see opposing counsel again, and probably soon!
So everyone works well together, including the judges
Midland is a sophisticated practice with institutional oil/gas clients with significant commercial litigation
Their firm has 25 lawyers with groups that do all the major practice areas; other firms have 10-40 lawyers (won't find that in the other West Texas cities)

Advice to young lawyers and what they are looking for when they hire in their firm

Critical to take care of yourself
TLAP and State Bar/local Bars are doing great work
Recent study: 25%-35% of lawyers are prone to problem drinking
Communicate with someone about what's going on with you
Their firm is a modified sink/swim model with young associates
So they try to hire people who have a propensity for the specific section they are hiring for
Looking for people who can get up to speed on their own, figure out the issues, put in the effort, and shortly get to a point where they need little/to no partner oversight
What in your experience demonstrates an interest and/or aptitude for the specific job/practice area you are applying to
Interview is a huge part of the process, because they are really looking as much/more for fit than just credentials
Also love to see some type of Midland or West Texas connection
Looking for people who want to be there for an extended period of time; not just a year or two and move on or move back to a large city
Don't have to commit to an entire career at the firm; but showing just a strong interest in oil/gas and related complex work, that can be enough and will make the firm confident you could be a long-term fit

Work/Life Balance

Recently the firm has moved to laptops with remote access so attorneys are able to work from home / the road
However, oil/gas legal work is still driven mostly by more senior lawyers (60+) who aren't as comfortable with lawyers working from home, so it's been a longer transition period
Realistically, much of what lawyers do can be done remotely, and he thinks the move in that direction will happen

Rapid Fire

Most important trait/characteristic in associate: go getter
Key habit: responsiveness (generally return calls/emails within 24 hours)
App/tool: Google Chrome Remote Desktop
Favorite Social Distancing Activity: checking toilet paper stash
Favorite Legal Movie: The Verdict; Idiocracy (courtroom scene)

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Daniel and Robert are joined by special guest Adrienne Hare for a deep dive into Legally Blonde. We talk about law school admissions videos, the Luke Wilson cross examination, the bend and snap, and much more. Enjoy!

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Ryan Reed is a partner and litigator with the San Antonio law firm Pulman, Cappuccio & Pullen. Ryan talks about the importance of professionalism, the best ways to develop business, and leading with a final draft.

His firm:

Mid-sized San Antonio firm with heavy litigation background (some transactional partners too)
His practice is focused on business and probate litigation
Biggest issue in probate right now is the change in tax laws and raised exemption amounts leads to clients with tax plans wills that are unnecessary and can create interesting issues
Loves practicing and living in San Antonio. Different from other Texas cities. Lawyers are great about being professional and working together; not as cut throat as some other locations. But, there also aren't the number of mid-sized businesses as in the larger cities to feed the legal work

Advice to lawyers

Don't be afraid to pleasantly go into the courthouse and ask for help. Treat the clerks/staff respectively; they will remember you and treat you well
When you prepare something, do so as if you were putting your name on it and sending it out into the world
The partner will still edit your work, but they will appreciate it the less they have to do
fully format; correct date; all typos removed
As a partner he no knows what makes his life easier in terms of the work from associates; also has a better perspective on the time he's putting in (thought it may not be apparent all the time to the associates)
The lawyer does so many different things and it's difficult to have all those skill sets
generate business
legal knowledge/skill
do the work in a competent manner (in court / in writing)
Hard to have all of these, and increases the importance of the team around you
Team approach is often a missed opportunity for law firm

When hiring associates

Resume/documents
Not looking as closely at grades/credentials as a large law firm might
Competence/personality most important
And do they have some experience that relates to what we do?
Want to see something on the resume that is broader than just a lawyer; what type of human being are they?
Outside interests/skills?
If the resume doesn't look professional, it's a red flag. Justify. Spell correctly. Should be visually appealing. If it isn't, the interviewer will think the person is sloppy.
In the interview
Know what you want to do. Don't just listen to the interviewer describe the work/firm and then say "yes I want to do that!"

Business development

positive interaction with other lawyers; treat them respectively; they can be your best source of referrals
help as many people as you can; you never know whether that might lead to a great case from them or someone they refer; don't overlook small cases
community involvement; for him that's the other parents around his kids' school; he pitches himself as being a problem solver, whether it's something he can do or point them to the person who can.

On work/life balance

Many of the lawyers in his firm have kids and are aware of the desire to spend time with families
There is a trade-off: how much money do you want to make vs. how much time do you want to spend with family
Live close to the office and minimize commute times
One approach is to carve out some time that is personal (i.e. 6pm-8pm at night) and communicate it with the firm (though as a young lawyer this may be more of a challenge).

Final thoughts

Be careful not to make your clients' problems your own problems
Solve problems and help people; it's a profession of service to your fellow man

Rapid Fire

important trait in an associate - thorough
key habit to success - getting in early
favorite app / tool - he is designing his own app right now!
favorite legal movie - Erin Brockovich

COVID update

Important to quickly be able to access documents (cloud)
They've jumped into using Microsoft Teams
Standing call (watercooler substitute)
Hard to have a team for every case (can work on large cases), so instead have teams for partner-led groups which can include multiple cases and associates

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Koons Fuller Managing Shareholder and CEO Ike Vanden Eykel shares about the importance of developing a life/career plan, staying up with technology, and how to maximize your time. There are TWO bonus features of this episode, both at the end, so don't miss them!

Ike's firm and practice:

devoted solely to family law; 2nd largest in the country; offices in Dallas/Southlake/Plano/Southlake/Houston
Been with the firm since 1990; CEO since 1992
(Daniel - lots of accolades/recognition)
Family law practice area
Technology is on the forefront of their practice, and it's important to stay ahead of the game
the challenges change because we don't even know what might be coming even three or five years later
Artificial intelligence is the coming tsunami
unsure how big it will be
become knowledgeable about what it does and how it currently could impact your work
Anticipate its arrival and be proactive; don't be surprised
Lots of legislative changes
Texas is unique because of trying both property and custody to juries (which are always changing)
The pitch to young lawyers for going into family law
It is a subspecialty of civil litigation; so you have to want to be a litigator/courtroom lawyer
Extremely enhanced client contact
Diversity of property issues
Advice to young lawyers
ready to work hard AND work smart
Everyone has the same 24/7 in a week, and you have to figure out how to get your job done in that time
Not enough, so you need people and systems
Delegate to a quality team around you
Figure out where you want your career to go and develop a plan
Who are your mentors?
Ike found a lawyer in another firm who was smart and had great courtroom skills
Puts you through the project of making and executing the career plan
Also makes sense to have different/multiple mentors for different areas and seasons in your life
Your career doesn't come in an Amazon package
Develop a presence in the office that is uniquely yours
Be dependable; when a partner/senior associate delegates work to you, get the job done!
Detail oriented is key; too much at stake for letting things fall through the cracks
Be ready to take constructive criticism
When hiring lawyers
The document/resume/cover letter review is not as important as the interview stage
People who have financial skills, experience, or knowledge (business majors, ability to understand accounting, finance, etc.) are valuable to his firm
a great way to distinguish yourself and highlighting strengths
At interview, looking for presence and people skills
The answer to "how are you doing" is not "fine"
Look professional and put together
No canned questions you pulled off the internet
Have several that are original and that you can pull from based on how the interview has gone
Thoughts on work/life balance
Definitely different than 20 years ago
Employers have to evolve if they will be successful
Either stay aggressive and grow, or you become stagnant and die
But you cannot be everything to everyone all the time
Just be sure to filter all these attitudes and actions through your plan
Pick your target and go for it
If someone picks a different target than you you'll likely wind up in different places
Get your career/life plan in place!
Rapid fire
one trait in associate - dependability
key habit - hard work
favorite app/productivity tool - embracing all technology related to calendaring/email/text and live by it
favorite legal movie - The Verdict
Postscript / Ike unplugged on work/life balance and what it really takes to be successful

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Steve Skarnulis of the Austin law firm Cain & Skarnulis is our guest today. Steve talks about committing to learn the business and industry language of a case, why job-hopping can concern future employers, and what 15 years in the restaurant business taught him.

Steve / The firm/ the practice
13th year and up to 14 lawyers (grown at a comfortable/organic pace)
Began purely business litigation, and recently added a transactional practice with a new real estate partner
Gone to an automated document management/discovery system which has allowed them to handle matters that as a small firm they might not have been able to handle otherwise
some lawyers adapt quicker than others, but the younger lawyers have really stepped up
He was in the restaurant business for 15 years, owning some of them for 10 years
Lawyers think they have it tough, but the restaurant hours are insane and not at all in your control...the trial never ends in the restaurant business!
Gave him the discipline to focus when the work/hours get tough
Also a business sense that helps with financials, etc.
Advice to lawyers
Commit to diving into the experts work on the financials so you can know the business piece of the case
Learn the language of the business/industry
Closeology in oil/gas example from TJ Turner
Be a decent human being along side being a tough lawyer; treat opposing side with respect
Daniel gives Kobe Bryant example
Plaintiff lawyer with private plane who picked up defense counsel on the way out to El Paso for depo/hearing
Learn to communicate as a normal person with plain language; check out Chad Baruch books/articles/briefs.
Always be willing to take on something new / be eager
When hiring lawyers into their firm
Red flag on resume - someone who can't stick with something for a reasonable period of time (several short stints at places give cause for concern)
performed reasonably well in law school and/or breadth of experience
solid writing sample matters
looking for those who are eager and hungry; likable and able to get along with
candidates should have done their homework and then have questions in the interview about the type of work they could expect to be involved with; shows you care about the firm
Austin legal practice
The construction boom continues, which equals lawsuits and litigation
New courthouse is going up
May be a few judges turnover in the 2020 election
Broadway Show Recommendations: Dear Evan Hansen; Come From Away
Rapid Fire Questions
Important trait for associates: grit
Key habit: calendaring everything
Favorite app/tool: Centerbase
Favorite Legal Movie: To Kill A Mockingbird

Bonus COVID-19 Segment

Immediately went remote/online
Virtual depos can work, but not for all
Work has been steady
Grateful to be able to continue working, and believes its important to support those who can't work
Expecting a busy second half of the year
Lots of outreach to clients and giving free advice on employment and economic stimulus program
Oil/Gas businesses have been hit extra hard, and likely will result in large numbers of bankruptcies
Opposing counsel very understanding and people are working together
Courts doing all they can to move cases forward, but there are limits to that
Austin Bar communicating well
Advice for lawyers
Work cases all the way up for trial (timelines, jury charges, etc.); take advantage of the additional time
Write short articles
Favorite social distancing activity - wine walk: take a walk around the neighborhood with wine in plastic wine glasses and talk with neighbors at a safe distance

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Robert Callahan of Callahan & King, and Daniel Hare of Varsity Search do a deep dive into the 1997 legal comedy Liar Liar. They talk about the once-in-a-generation Jim Carrey, community property and wiretapping laws, and what Liar Liar reveals about lawyers and how we balance work and family.

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Matt talks about cyber security, having a good attitude, and living up to the standard you set for yourself.

Matt's firm and practice
Fairly new firm that broke off of a big law firm
Two areas: commercial litigation and insurance coverage
Grown from four to 11 attorneys in a matter of months
Also grow with their clients as they grow
There is a big concern among clients regarding cyber security
Excited about the technology advancements for lawyers and law practice ("take advantage of the blessings because you're definitely going to have to live with its curses")
Big opportunity for young lawyers in cyber law
San Antonio has grown up over the past 20 years, and is a great place to live and work
the S.A. bar is one of the most collegial anywhere; lots of professional courtesy; relatively small compared to other large cities
more small/mid-size firms
definitely a home-field advantage when going against lawyers from outside the county
Advice to young lawyers
responsibility of every attorney to be involved in the community; use talents and skills to serve; will be rewarding
pro bono work too (they led one of the first same-sex marriage case in Texas)
business development may/can come from community service, but not the reason to do it
Attitude is everything; are you bringing energy to the team? Give people a reason to want to keep working with you.
Don't have a big ego; compliment opposing counsel/colleagues/clients; have humility; there are lots of ways to get to the end result
Common mistake is to not speak up when you're having trouble and not making progress; don't wait to ask for help if you are stuck
Also an unwillingness to speak up
When hiring young lawyers
table stakes - good law school and performed well
history of hard work
leave out the high school extracurriculars
team experience is important
willingness to learn
does the person have a good attitude? will they be good to work with in high-stress situations
Coverletters are either horribly generic or incredibly interesting...get into the latter group! (show passion; good writing)
Be genuine in an interview
Advice on business development
Best way is to be a really good lawyer and start to get the clients reaching out to you as opposed to the partner
Become an expert in a subject area, and start marketing/developing your reputation as an expert (this takes years)
Navigating technology
Stay on top of the new developments
Clients are trying new tech everyday, and expect the same of you
Being a leader in tech is much better than being a follower
Work/life balance
Constant struggle
Have to find a way to keep your sanity
new lawyers are demanding firms pay more attention to this
Flexibility within the year (lots of hours are going to happen some months; important to wind down in other months)
Go to bed and put your phone away
Final thoughts
Harvard Business Review article from Clayton Christenson
Three questions
happy in career
family/friends enduring source of joy
maintain integrity / stay out of jail
Avoid comparison. Have your standard and live to your standard
Rapid fire
one trait in associate: good attitude
key habit: discipline
app/tool: iPad (Nextpoint)
Legal movie: A Few Good Men
FollowUp Conversation re: Covid-19

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Amanda Taylor, appellate lawyer with Butler Snow in Austin, shares about how the Coronavirus is impacting their firm and clients, the importance of appellate law throughout the entirely of the litigation, and the importance of treating the law as a profession and not just a job.

Coronavirus impact on
the firm
Firm was prepared to move to remote working quickly, so that has been an advantage
Zoom Happy Hours to maintain connection
Themes are fun!
Tiger King making its way into briefs
clients
labor/employment questions are big
restructuring questions
regulatory/healthcare
courts
litigation is down
Texas Lawyer report from Angela Morris on filings - number down 50% versus March 2019
Should see a surge in filings in Q3 and Q4
hearings via zoom
the local bar
mostly encouraging
Blake Hawthorne at Texas Supreme Court has done great job of getting information out to lawyers
working together with opposing counsel on deadlines
the future
prepare for emergencies before they come
hurricanes hit Houston every year and occasionally drive people from the office as well
Her practice
Butler Snow is a large law firm with a large presence in the southeast
labor/employment
pharma lit
drug/device lit
products liability
bankruptcy
appellate (Amanda)
Board certified in appellate law
Yes she's in front of the appellate courts, but she is in the trial court quite a bit as well
important to be part of the strategy from the beginning (procedure, jurisdiction, etc.)
motions
Started out wanting to the a plaintiff's trial lawyer
legislature passed tort reform while she was in law school, and her job offer from a plaintiff's firm was deferred
Had impressed an appellate judge during a moot court competition, and wound up hiring her as a law clerk
Fell in love with appellate work and stayed at the appellate court for three years (under Justice Jan Patterson and Chief Justice Ken Law?)
When things change and your plans are thwarted, things can still work out for the best if you have a passion for what you're doing and keep moving forward
Appellate practice news/updates?
Surrounding jurisdictions are following the lead of Texas appellate courts
more sophisticated, stand-alone practice
transition of trial lawyers to valuing having an appellate lawyer on their trial team
Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia going this way
Big following of the hashtag #appellatetwitter on Twitter
Advice for Associates
Understand this is a profession, not just a job
positive attitude
inquisitive
jumping in to help
Not focused only on money/bonuses/etc.
you'll be much happier
Showing initiative
Internally
follow along with cases happening in the firm; read the pleadings and motions and do some research
become an expert in a specific issue that is likely to come up
THEN swing by the partner's office and offer specific thoughts/assistance
Externally
become a thought leader in a specific area of the law that is changing or becoming critical issues
Force majeure anyone?!
Advice for lawyers seeking a job
Highlight experiences that demonstrate maturity or life experience
if you were a receptionist in an office that allowed you to absorb skills, knowledge, etc., highlight it
doesn't have to be in the legal industry
Show you line up with key values of the firm (Butler Snow - diversity and inclusion)
In the interview
Being conversant is the most important part
lack of ego
showing a passion for the profession
Dress the part
(Daniel - video interviews now raise new issues for how to present professionally online)
If you can get to a private room in an office or library, take advantage of that (once we are out of shelter-in-place)
Access to justice is a big issue and opportunity for young lawyers to give back and get great experience doing pro bono work
Advice for women lawyers
Decide what you want, and it doesn't have to be the same as all women or all lawyers
It also doesn't have to be the same in each season of life
Develop a 1, 3, 5, 10 year plan
Maybe at one time you are focusing on work and sacrificing other areas
Another time you might reduce hours/pay but still do high quality work on a more limited basis
Get a mentor / advocate who can communicate your worth to the firm in a broader way than just billable hours
Rapid fire Qs
important trait/characteristic in an associate - DEDICATION
key habit - ORGANIZATION
app/tool - LEGAL PAD
social distancing activity - LONG WALKS WITH PODCASTS
legal movie - LEGALLY BLONDE

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Today's guest is Houston personal injury lawyer Matt Greeberg of Zehl & Associates. Matt and I talk about the importance of who you work for, things to include/exclude on a resume, and why plaintiff's lawyers are the surgeons of law practice.

What's happening in personal injury law right now
Automation when it comes to vehicles (Tesla/Google/Uber); what happens when there is no driver of the vehicle involved in the crash?

What he learned as a young lawyer
find a good mentor
Don't just come out and ask them to be your mentor; instead look for a project you can volunteer to help with
Pick a complicated piece of the project and offer to throw yourself into it and take care of it
be picky about who you work under as a young lawyer
to the extent you can, surround yourself with great staff and take advice and critique from them

When seeking / interviewing for a lawyer job
demonstrate good writing ability through writing samples or recent writing projects
high school is irrelevant and shouldn't be on a resume
Maybe national merit scholar can stay; Eagle Scout (Daniel)
leave interests off or make them more broad (though Daniel mentions there is a split on this between employers)
Highlight what you've done in practice that is especially distinct (federal court? corporate rep depo? Daubert?)
Careful with political affiliations and conversations
Research the firm in advance of the interview (old cases, etc.) and prepare questions
research.txcourts.gov

To impress as an associate
Be the person who says yes to everything (Thanks Professor Powell)
partners will like this
you will get a wide range of experience

To bring in business
Can depend on the practice area (not a lot of repeat clients in personal injury)
websites (AVVO)
Let everyone know the kind of work that you do, especially your former classmates - great referral source!
Be involved with your law school alumni groups and events
Buy your own domain name in case you ever want to to out on your own

Work/Life balance issues
It's never going to be equal; work is going to be the majority of what you do
Try to carve out times in the evening/weekend that are yours (not the entire evening or weekend, but like 7-8pm are protected)

The case for personal injury work
If you want to do this, start by doing some type of litigation wherever you are; it is translatable
The most exciting area of practice: depos, hearings, motions...the surgeons of the law practice

Rapid fire
trait/characteristic in associate - drive
key habit - sleep
app/tool - One Note
legal movie - A Few Good Men

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Brian and Daniel talk about what the Coronavirus is doing to law practice and how attorneys can adapt during this unusual time.

Coronavirus impact on law practice

FROM CLIENTS
fear for their businesses and jobs
also a desire to keep things going to at least be prepared

FOR HIS LAW FIRM
Got on it early
Started noticing problems three weeks ago since his family had been to Europe in mid-February,
noticed people in public areas wearing masks, and then
saw the tech companies sending people home in early March, and Harvard moved online early as well.
So they have been working remotely for over a week, and had plans in place to do so two+ weeks ago
Reassure attorneys and staff
You have to adapt quickly
They already had the platform in place to work remotely as just a way to do business, so that made it much easier to transition
He had listened to a new attorney right out of law school who said he should go to the cloud for everything
Went with Clio which specifically works with smaller law firms
Has an IT firm that he trusts; they came in in early March to make sure everyone was setup
For those in areas who are vulnerable to hurricanes, basically a necessity since they can force you out of your office

COURTS/LOCAL BAR
Harris County first with pushing back cases and hearings, conducting urgent hearings remotely
Bexar County followed soon
Texas Supreme Court order: gave 30 additional days to deadlines
Most counsel have been agreeable to postponements and remote alternatives
Largest concern is for the health/safety of all involved
He has a virtual mediation on the calendar next week, and other pretrial activities scheduled as well
Though recognition that some people want to do depos in person only, and will have to reschedule those

ADVICE FOR LAWYERS DURING THIS TIME
Communication
Has a call with his team leads every morning at 8am
Those leaders will then go do calls with their team
Then has a call with his financial team
Then a call with his operations lead
Calls with clients
Then with paralegals/staff as well - they are as much or more concerned with what's going on as anyone
Routine
Office hours remain 9am-6pm
All calls forwarded automatically to off-site receptionist
Keep lunch hour (or whatever you normally do)
Take care of physical well-being; don't let this interrupt your exercise routine
Mental Health
Continue any meditations/quiet times/yoga, etc.
Continue therapy sessions
Pay attention to it

WHEN HE HIRES ASSOCIATES

1 thing he looks at is writing samples since communication with the court and then the client is important

Highlight most important issue(s) for the court
Be able to simplify legal process and terms for the client so that a non-attorney can understand
Also important to be able to communicate with a jury, which is not how you would write for a court
He is looking for people who fit into his firm's culture
good writer
good teammate to the other 20 people on staff
not set up to hire "individuals" that aren't interested in working with others/on a team
community involvement, which can reflect a willingness to help others and ability to be on a team
need generalists (within litigation/trial); not a specialist in hearings, depos, appeals, etc. Need to be willing/able to do it all.
Multiple leaders/staff will be involved in the interview process to help identify the right people
References are important, so be sure to line up people who you've worked with and have credibility who can speak honestly to your work product and approach

RAPID FIRE Qs:
Most important trait/characteristics in associate: good writing
Key habit: not burning bridges...you'll run into everyone again at some point
App/productivity tool: Clio, Expensify, time tracker
Favorite Corona activity: creating a daily soccer game for the kids
Favorite legal movie: The Firm

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Daniel and Robert talk about the importance of being heard, seeing someone great in their prime, and give out a bunch of awards for this 2017 biopic of Justice Thurgood Marshall.

Notes/links from the episode:

Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller
LegalAffairs story of the real life case

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Troy shares some keys to client development, what to emphasize in a job interview, and the evolving oil and gas law practice.

Intro to Troy and his firm
Grew up in Houston, Texas A&M undergrad, Baylor Law, went to Harris Finley Bogle immediately
35 attorneys
Big focus on oil/gas industry (litigation, transactions, title, leases, real estate, banking)
New office in Parker County (Weatherford, TX) which also takes on some criminal and personal injury matters.

Oil/Gas Practice
prices aren't great, but doesn't seem to impact the litigation side as much as the transactional side
helps to be licensed in multiple states to accommodate clients with properties all over the country (in fact only 20% of his practice is in Tarrant County, much less than in the past)

Fort Worth
Loves everything about it
Downtown is booming
Stockshow and Rodeo
Stockyards
13th largest population in the nation (bigger than Boston/Seattle/Denver)
Has the big city amenities but small town feel
The legal community is close-knit;
you'll see someone nearly every time you walk through downtown
If the other side is represented by a Fort Worth law firm, you'll probably know them and have a relationship with them, which can help and make the practice more enjoyable
Dallas/Fort Worth might sometimes get lumped together, but they are very different.
It's important if you are applying to Fort Worth law firms to articulate why you want to be in Fort Worth.

Advice for young lawyers
Re: internal client development
treat senior associates and partners as your client.
Develop the relationship.
Learn about their cases.
Be eager to help
Re: outside client development
get involved in the community
build relationships
have a long-term outlook (associates aren't expected to keep themselves busy in the early years, but it starts now)
Not forced involvement - pick something you're interested in and get involved...raise your hand.
Know your law school classmates and stay in touch with them.
they can be a great source of referrals and assistance in your practice
Be proactive and think ahead
Don't just do the task that is assigned, look for other ways to help and anticipate what's needed next
Follow up
Read everything and know the documents and the case law, because the partner probably won't have time to do that. It might raise an issue or a strategy.

When job searching/interviewing
Grades can matter, so highlight the good and be ready to explain or mitigate the bad
Engagement is important
Enjoyable to work with
Desire for the long-term
Be yourself and want to contribute to the team
Prepare ahead of time to answer questions as to why you want the job...THIS IS NOT ASSUMED BY THE INTERVIEWER!

Work/Life Balance
Schedule flexibility is an underrated benefit of being a lawyer...take advantage of it!

Rapid Fire Questions
Character/Trait in an associate - work ethic and concern for end work product
Key habit - get done the hard thing first
Favorite app/tool - transcriptpad and goodreader on ipad; also iphonejd.com is a great resource
Legal movie - A Few Good Men

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James talks about the elder law practice area, working well with support staff, and the importance of showing interest in the firm when interviewing.

Their firm and practice
Elder Law - planning, medicaid, nursing homes, wills/trusts/power of attorneys, probate/guardianships
opening a Georgetown office
He used to do general litigation, and then when he and his wife Elisa partnered up,
Elder law rules change all the time, because the legislature is active in the area; tax laws too
Also lot's of non-lawyers are in the field (financial advisors, accountants, etc.) giving advice.

Advice to young lawyers
Working well with assistants and paralegals. This is often overlooked by lawyers.
Be on time and ready to work
Be willing to accept new challenges
Start recognizing what is needed before being asked, and take the initiative to get it done
When given feedback, accept it, learn from it, and put it into practice
In most cases, the purpose of critical feedback is to teach and build up, not to personally criticize
Also get along well with the staff
as a young lawyer you will likely be working with staff who have more experience than you

If you are a candidate
Read the job ad and respond specifically to what is asked (if it asks for both a cover letter and resume, send both!)
Make sure cover letters and resumes look good and are grammatically correct
Have someone check your work!
the interviewer is often just looking for whether you are a good fit with the other people in the office
prepare for the interview to show your interest in what the firm does
Ask questions that focus on what the firm does, their clients
If transitioning into a new practice are, communicate what you are willing to do to get up to speed and learn the area
Also recognize you may not be as valuable (i.e. $$) as you are in your current role, at least until you get up to speed

Advice on business development
Get involved in the community and the industry you practice in
Ask your supervising partner for advice on how to bring in new clients to the firm
Do great work for your partner's clients
Make sure the partner knows you aren't looking to build business just to leave and take clients with you; but that you want to help grow your firm

Other thoughts
Recognize that there are always trade-offs. If you want to work fewer hours, be ready to accept less pay.
There is a big difference between a flex schedule (i.e. rearranging a full-time schedule to non-traditional work hours) and simply taking time off.

Rapid Fire
Associate trait/characteristic - practicality
Key habit - hard work
Legal movie - My Cousin Vinny

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Joel Bailey, a partner at the Dallas litigation boutique Hedrick Kring, joins us. Below are some of the topics we discuss:

Firm is in its 6th year in existence. Focus on business litigation firm and bankruptcy

Best way to learn bankruptcy law is to just do it; don't worry if you didn't take the class or haven't done it before.

What's going on in the practice?
Have to be nimble/flexible with alternative fee arrangements
Find a fee arrangement that makes the client comfortable and works for the firm.
What he learned as a young lawyer?
Hard work and preparation win, and is completely within your control.
Don't stop working hard once you graduate law school and get your first job...that's the time to ramp it up even higher.
Quote: "Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity."

Key traits/characteristics
Being available and ready to help a partner/client/colleague
Willingness to jump in and do things
Want to be a partner in a law firm?
strong work product early
keep/maintain relationships
colleagues now can go in-house and become clients sooner than you think
referrals often come from other law firms

How does communication work between clients and associates?
It's great if the client trusts the associate and should be encouraged!
caveat: don't give advice that conflicts with what the partner told them, without first talking to that partner

Work/Life Balance
The term is outdated and the better way to think about it is work/life harmony (credit: Josh Hedrick)
It isn't realistic to turn everything off for an entire evening or weekend in private practice. You can draw some lines around certain times of day (dinner, specific hours during the weekend), and finding that harmony is the key
Both work life and personal life can suffer if you don't figure this out
Communication is key if you're taking a longer time away (e.g. vacation)...but even then it is still ideal to at least check email once or twice per day and respond if urgent

When hiring associates:
typos on the resume are a red flag
mock trial/moot court experience in law school as/more important than grades
In interviews, looking for the cultural/personality fit
What do people emphasize?
What questions do they ask?
Why are you leaving your current firm? Work product? Not a culture fit?
For big law candidates its important that they aren't looking for less stress/responsibility going to a smaller firm...it's not going to get easier

Rapid Fire
Trait/Characteristic - hard worker
Key habit - preparation and hard work
App/Tool - iPad
Legal Movie - Boston Legal / My Cousin Vinny

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Robert and Daniel talk about this 1950's classic from Agatha Christie and Billy Wilder, which includes one of the wildest endings of any legal movie.

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Cody Stafford, partner at Dobrowski Larkin & Stafford in Houston, joins us to talk about boutique litigation practice, the importance of writing, how to prepare for an interview, and how to ask your supervisor for feedback.

Some of the episode highlights are:

They are a complex commercial litigation boutique firm that does pretty much anything that falls under that umbrella
Houston is booming! Energy/Oil/Gas always play a role.
How/why do boutiques succeed when competing against the mega-firms?
E-Discovery is a huge issue right now.

Advice:

focus on learning to write;
most of the practice happens on paper;
also it is going to be your first impression with the partners;
Bryan Garner really helps!
Keep it simple, clear, and avoid legalese
Gain a perspective that everything takes longer than you think, and you have to double check everything
Persevere
Do a great job on your assignment, but also look for ways to contribute to the larger goal of success in the matter.
Put in the work before asking for feedback on an assignment, and have a specific/defined question
If asking for general performance feedback, don't pop in and ask...make an appointment (maybe over lunch or coffee) so both of you can set aside time.
Also a good idea to come with your own thoughts on specific areas you feel you can improve in.
Think of every project you do for a client as client development, so work on becoming a great lawyer first, while at the same time having the big picture in mind that every client interaction can impact your future business
And...every time you are out and around people, those are potential clients...so be prepared.
When interviewing,
engage with the interviewers
show that you prepared and researched
writing sample is important
on a resume, it's not so much the content as it is the format, presentation, errors, etc.
demonstrate that you are detail oriented
Litigation is war, and you won't win every battle within that war so don't expect to or let it negatively impact you when you lose a motion, objection, etc. Keep the big picture of the overall case in mind.

Rapid fire questions

Most important trait: dedication
Habit: questioning everything
Tool: Federal Rules App for iPad
Legal movie: My Cousin Vinny or Liar Liar

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Grant is a founding partner of Blaies and Hightower, and focuses his practice on litigation and full-service for healthcare related entities.

He shared some great thoughts on the practice of law and tips for young lawyers, including:

Be a constant learner and sponge who soaks up everything from the more experienced lawyers around you
Be willing to volunteer to help on projects
Hard work is critical, but it has to be work toward a solution for the client.
The ability to interact with clients and develop relationships is a key to success
If you've hopped around a lot know that a firm may be wary, so prepare to explain your moves
Plus his answers to our rapid fire questions and his favorite legal movie!

Grant's bio: http://www.bhilaw.com/our-team/grant-blaies/

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Daniel and Robert do a deep, deep dive into this courtroom drama classic.

• The origin story
• Would Linda Hamilton have been a better Jo Galloway?
• What's happening with Kaffee drinking/driving, and Sam riding with him?
• Is Jack Ross a better lawyer than Daniel Kaffee?
• Was the witness stand also an audition for actors looking for parts in other movies?
• Why put Downey on the stand instead of Dawson?
• How does Jack figure out Downey wasn't in his room and Kaffee doesn't?
• Does this movie pass the Bechdel test? The Callahan-Hare test?
• Our verdicts
• Plus the tragic aftermath for the "real life" Dawson/Downey:
  https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-04-10-1994100064-story.html
  https://www.boston25news.com/news/new-england-s-unsolved-who-killed-us-marine-david-cox-/916827273/

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Jeff Chapman is a construction law expert who leads his own firm, The Chapman Firm, in Austin.

Jeff shared a number of great insights for young lawyers:

have confidence to take opportunities that are presented to you

always make sure your work is of the highest quality

ask for, and be willing to accept and (most importantly) implement, feedback

continue to stay in touch with your law school classmates; they are your future referral sources

Look for opportunities to write/publish/speak to get your name out there

Business development is a long game; don't expect to get a client in the short-term

Work-life balance is very difficult when you're at a firm requiring 2000+ billable hours per year; but many smaller firms don't require that and are better able to provide that balance

Strong academic credentials are important when hiring because they show the person has a big brain and drive

Typos/grammar issues in resumes are fatal - the candidate won't get an interview

Confidence and interpersonal skills important as well so you can grow organically and engage with clients

Look interviewer in the eye

Able to carry on a conversation

Have intelligent questions to ask during the interview

Take advantage of new technologies to become the most efficient lawyer you can be

Trait you most want to see in an associate: Confidence
Habit that is key to his success: Attention to detail
Best app/productivity tool: Notability (for iPad)
The Paper Chase

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Austin-based Texas Super Lawyers Rising Stars Josh Fogelman and Aaron von Flatern join us.

Josh and Aaron formed their own personal injury plaintiff's firm several years ago called Fogelman von Flatern which has seen tremendous success.

They share about how to create a firm culture around the customer-first approach of top companies.

They also talk about what it takes to become the dependable associate and why that's important.

Josh gives the same answer to two separate questions in the rapid-fire round...can he do that?

Aaron and Josh both have the same favorite legal movie!

All that and more on this week's Monday Mentor's episode of Lone Star Lawyers!

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Daniel and Robert break down The Lincoln Lawyer. Do lawyers still ask judges to continue cases while they look for the key witness Mr. Green? Did Haller give the right advice to his first client to take the plea deal? How sick to your stomach are you when Haller opens up his gun box to find it empty? Who has tried the freelancing photographer trick? What ethical issues are raised once Haller knows his client committed both crimes? All that plus our verdict!

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Kimber Davison is the managing shareholder at Griffith Davison in Dallas, a construction and real estate boutique law firm. In this episode she talks about the opportunity in construction law, the answer you never want to give your partner, and a time keeping life saver.

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On this Monday Mentors episode of Lone Star Lawyers, Jason Scott and Michael Knisely talk about what you can do to stand out as a young lawyer, the importance of researching ahead of applying and interviewing for jobs, the opportunity in the trusts and estates practice area, and the one habit that has been most key to their success. Thanks for listening!

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On the first Movie Verdicts episode of Lone Star Lawyers, Daniel and Robert do a deep dive into My Cousin Vinny. What was the best cross-examination? Do the defendants get off in real life (i.e. Robert's hot take)? What's with Daniel's over-the-top adoration of Fred Gwynne as the judge? Do we buy Joe Pesci and Marisa Tomei as a couple? All this and much more, including our final verdict of this 1992 classic.

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Gregory Cagle literally wrote the book on HOA law in Texas and is a founding partner of Cagle Pugh, an Austin-based firm with offices also in Dallas and San Antonio. Gregory and I talk about the three things that you must do to please a client, how to establish yourself in a niche, and preparing for the future of law practice.

Amazon link to the third edition of his book (unavailable; 4th edition due out this spring): https://www.amazon.com/Texas-Homeowners-Association-Law-Associations/dp/1634139895/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

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Learn what Lone Star Lawyers is, why we created it, and whether it is for you!