The Deep Dive Podcast: Recent Episodes
Association Meetings International
Conversations with association thought leaders that get under the surface of the latest headlines. By focusing on one overarching issue per episode this series is the perfect antidote to the age of information overload.
Ami editor James Lancaster talks to Kai Hattendorf, CEO of UFI, the global association of the exhibitions industry, about the meeting industry's efforts to combat climate change.
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Nienke van der Malen, CEO of Conferli, talks AMI Editor James Lancaster through research which shows associations are being more proactive when it comes to choosing where to meet.
1:30 ‘Headache’, ‘time-consuming’, ‘complex’ – these are the words you hear when you talk to associations about the tender process.
2:51 In most cases there is no standard tender process in place.
4:27 Only 30 per cent of associations require a local host.
5:10 There’s been a switch. Associations are now proactively approaching destinations
5:40 There’s been a huge switch from destination branding to eco-system branding
8:00 Associations see hybrid as two different tenders – and they don’t like it!
11:20 We have a long way to go communicating what we can do
13:50: Nowadays the bidding process is still very political
18:10: I remember losing a bid to another city where the president had proposed to his wife!
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AMI editor James Lancaster talks to Loren Edelstein, VP Content Director at Northstar Meetings Group, about how Roe v Wade could affect where associations choose to meet.
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1:35 We got carried away with all the money that was going into event technology.
4:30 (But) virtual will play an incredibly important role through this decade.
9:07 There's still a big role for innovation and doing things differently.
11:47 Hybrid isn't the answer to any of the big problems facing meeting planners.
19:09 So many people were so bad at doing virtual that they're not going back.
25:00 We would miss something as a species if we didn't meet, but we got to complete redesign our events so they're much more sustainable.
27:18 Look at the content you want to cover and if it's only going to take two days just run it for two days, not three days because that's what you did last year.
30:30 There are lots of histories of people who have marched into extinction. The difference now is we know what we're doing.
35:20 We ran a meat-free conference for two days and not only did no one criticise. No one noticed
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‘The ship is not safe in harbour. There is no harbour’ – 2:15
‘Innovation is a mental framework’ – 5:00
‘At its core innovation is the most enjoyable thing to do’ – 8:00pm
‘Perfectionism is an override of our natural state’ 11:20pm
‘We need 50 per cent contemplation 50 per cent execution’ – 15:00
‘Most technology is completely underleveraged’ – 18:50
‘Be the forbearers of vulnerability’ 22:00
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1:30 For most events, Covid is effectively over. We’ve decided that we simply have to get going.
6:05 There a desire to reengineer meetings and make them as impactful as possible. I think that’s the great thing to come out of this.
6:20 The association being formed now would never dream of describing themselves as associations.
9:28 Once you have remote organisations there is a real need for face-to-face meetings.
12:24: I don’t really believe in hybrid events…as such.
15:20 Smart associations are being much more careful about how they run their online meetings. They’re not chasing numbers. They’re happier with smaller audiences.
16:30: We’re heading into an era where we’re going to have to justify every tonne of carbon we generate. So, we have to become much better at expressing the purpose of the meeting.
21:38: It’s untenable not to take action against official Russian organisations at the moment, but leaving the door open for individual Russian academics is really important.
23:49: I worry that there are big trends towards moving into separate blocks, which will stop scientific flow. We are dealing with issues that don’t respect national borders.
25:20: If you’re booking up association meetings three-five years in advance. 10 per cent inflation is a monster. Even a year out it can destroy your bottom line.
27:00 If you’re in the meeting business all you can do is concentrate on what you do and not worry about the rest. There are going to be winners. There are going to be losers.
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“People aren’t just a segment in your marketing strategy”
“We tend to get stuck at diversity. Equity and inclusion are the hard parts.”
“People want to be included, but no one wants to feel tokenized.”
“Associations need someone thinking about this all the time.”
“Associations are very meticulous about letting their attendees know their event is Covid safe, they should also let people know they will feel safe and included.”
“You have to be consistent and across the board. DEI is not a one-off.”
“We’re somewhere between the beginning and the middle on DEI.”
“We all have certain privileges that we want to hold on to and we have to be cognizant of that.”
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1:34: We have opened up to international associations
2:42: Things are looking better. Europe is opening up. But we all need to change our business models. We can't rely on congress income.
3:30: Everyone is thinking about diversifying their income.
4:44 The world has changed. I'd be surprised if associations went back to the old ways.
6:10 To say associations are slow is an unfair stereotype, if you've seen how quickly and creatively they adapted during the pandemic.
10:00 There are times when association executives need to talk CEO to CEO not CEO to their boards. And that's a great opportunity we have at AC Forum.
14:00 There seem to be a lot more women working in associations than men. I don't know why, but they are doing a great job!
16:00 But it's important if you are having a panel or webinar to have a diversity in your speakers and that's something we always try to achieve.
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1:14 There is a craving to get back to face-to-face. None of our clients liked hybrid.
4:45 Associations who already had online communities thrived during the pandemic.
8:26 Associations have been too rigid in the way they protect membership.
14:00 Online communities are simple and not exorbitant. People forget they have to be managed.
16:00 The model of having a standalone conference where people sit and nod along quietly to someone on stage needs a revamp if we still expect people to travel.
21:50 The more someone in your community is engaged the more loyal they will be.
22:50 Be flexible. Be open to change. Be more…modern.
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2:40 Associations must have a value-added proposition year-round, that’s what the pandemic taught us.
03:27 Many associations are old-fashioned and proud of it.
4:40 Associations are the guardians of a tremendous amount of specific sector knowledge – they should leverage it.
5:08 There are individuals teaching stuff on YouTube who get more views than many associations do in ten years. Associations are probably sitting on raw talent
09:45 Digital meetings tech is still embryonic. Compared to the industry in general it’s tiny.
11:25 An equilibrium will replace the ridiculous false dichotomy of digital versus face-to-face
14:50 The planners who have an existential angst towards technology shouldn’t be fearful. They will learn to use it as and when it suits them. It will just expand the scope of their work.
22:28 We should resist the norm that new technological discoveries are immediately usurped by a very small cabal of people with almost absolute control.
31:30 The people developing the metaverse don’t know what it is.
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Martin Boyle, CEO of IACPO joins Holly Patrick on this episode of Deep Dive to discuss the golden rules of being a strong leader, why we need to start looking forward to the exciting times ahead and why is it absolutely necessary to take the time to understand what’s important in life...
"For me, leadership is about having the conviction to make tough decisions, the strength to support and encourage other people, it’s about having the humility to take advice, be proud but also be humble at the same time, and it’s about having the vision to create."
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1:25: “We were very, very, very poor. But it was a home full of love”
4:33 “My mum was brilliant at swimming the system.”
7:06 “Having straight As was a job. If you got a B – you were fired!”
9:20 “I chose a military academy. I think I was desperate for structure!”
11:50 “My mum would say I don’t want you to start fights, but I want you to finish them!”
16:50 “My math teacher really took me under his wing.”
18:55 “I had no idea people could earn a living organising conferences!”
26:00 “I was very lucky at Congrex. I was surrounded by wonderful mentors”
28:40 “In order to run a successful company you need three brains.”
35:00 “I came back into the market in 2009. That defined all my ignorance!”
42:00 “Who didn’t wobble in the last two years wasn’t alive.”
46:50 "Everyone needs to play for their own team.”
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On this episode of Deep Dive, Holly Patrick asks Mark Cooper, the CEO of the International Association of Conference Centres and Chair of the Events Industry Council, whether it’s okay for association leaders to take to calculated risks, how important is it to surround yourself with a good team in a time of crisis, and why leaders shouldn’t shy away from challenges…
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How have association leaders managed through the pandemic, how have they overcome challenges and how have they adapted to lead from the front in a post-pandemic era? Discussing this with Holly Patrick is Professor Annamaria Iagnocco, president of the European Alliance of Associations for Rheumatology, an organisation that represents people with arthritis and rheumatism, health professionals in rheumatology (HPR) and scientific societies of rheumatology.
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Genevieve Leclerc talks to James Lancaster about why she want to help international associations and destinations create more impactful events that benefit wider society.
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1:30 “If you’ve been given lemons, make limoncello out of it!”
2:30 “One of our board members said, ‘guys this is not looking good’. So, we pivoted quickly!”
5:30 It’s getting more challenging. The expectations for virtual are rising and rightly so.”
11:50 “Keystone events will do well. ‘Me too’ events are going to have a harder time.”
12:32 “We need to evolve our formats to show the ROI of the physical get-together”
I5.59 “Associations have to start looking at how dependent they are on conferences economically”
16:20 “We’re going to start looking at destinations more closely. You don’t need taxi strikes on top of everything else.”
18:05: “I am super impressed with how accommodating and collaborative the meetings industry has been, but obviously that can’t last for ever.”
20:20 “In the virtual world we had a higher number of women attending conference. That was startling.
23:00 “Our organisation was thrown in the spotlight like never before, and we were very well prepared.
24:00 “We had very good board – staff relations which allowed us to act very quickly! That’s super important.
26:00: “I can only recommend this book!”
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Membership is not going away, and nor, necessarily, should it, but it should not define how associations build relationships with stakeholders who could potentially add value to their organisation. So says Jeff De Cagna who thinks the way associations either define people as 'members' or 'customers' doesn't befit forward-thinking, inclusive organisations in the 21st Century. Instead they should be looking to involve as wide a variety of individuals and organisations as possible who can help them fulfil their missions and help make the world a better place in which to live.
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Why thinking in 'national' terms risks disappointment (0:45). Why associations believe in the power of global interaction (3.56) How the pandemic has forced associations to think about their mission (5:02) and completely re-evaluate how they think about risk (5:55), why associations are now laser-focused on meeting outcomes (8:45), why we're already using vaccine passports' (10:45), why meeting designers need to focus on what's hard to replicate online (18:35), how the relationship between cities and associations has shifted from transactional to partnership (21.00), the defining role of sustainability over the next decade (27:14), why we need much better metrics on meeting outcomes (30:00), his predictions for the next 12 months, five years, and 10 years (35:43), and the best book he's read this year (40:37).
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Three quarters of convention bureau have suffered financial cuts over the last 12 months, according to a new report - The impacts of the coronavirus on convention bureaux in Europe - either from their private sector members or a drop in government funding. What does this mean for the meetings industry in general and the associations who use convention bureau services? We spoke to the report's author Rob Davidson to find out...
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In this episode of Deep Dive, we talk to AMI columnist Jeff De Cagna about how contrarian thinking can help reinvigorate associations with added purpose, why associations have a tendency to think conservatively (small 'c'), why membership is one of the foundational orthodoxies that needs to be challenged, why the 'governmental' model of associations is one of the biggest impediments to progress, and why the idea that future for associations is 'digital, digital, digital' ignores everything that covid-19 has taught us about what it means to be human.
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While the vaccine rollout slowly gathers momentum, many countries are now entering the third-wave of the coronavirus pandemic. What does this mean for the reopening of international association meetings? What role will vaccine passports play? And how come people are still building convention centres anyway? James Lancaster put the questions to Ori Lahav in this entertaining episode of Deep Dive.
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"Being a board member is not about your CV. It's about your legacy. When you see strong associations you realise there were people who were absolutely committed to helping them grow, and those are the people associations remember." Jeffers Miruka, President of the African Society of Association Executives, wants 100 per cent commitment from his board members as he explains why a thriving association sector is so crucial to the continent of Africa, and why, despite progress with the COVAX scheme, the pace and scale of the vaccine rollout in Africa is a source of concern. Jeffers also explains how the meetings industry has been a springboard for his career in association management,
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The art of meeting design has been neglected for too long, argues Mike van der Vijver, co-founder of MindMeeting.org and co-author of Into the Heart of Meetings: Basic Principles of Meeting Design, but the discipline will be crucial in proving the value of face-to-face meetings in a post-pandemic world. Here he explains how 'default behaviour' has shaped meeting formats (4:18), why measurable objectives are crucial (6:19), the enduring myth of 'classroom teaching' as a learning tool (7:10), the power of the shared experience (10:30), how the pandemic might help meetings come of age (13:38), and why there is a biological imperative for humans to meet in person (19:23).
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The last twelve months have challenged association leaders to respond quickly to unfolding events and meet the evolving needs of their members. Our guest on this edition of Deep Dive wears two leadership hats -one executive, the other volunteer. Giuseppe Marletta is Managing Director – Europe at the Association for Corporate Counsel and president of the European Society of Association Executive.
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Deep Dive talks to Damian Hutt, executive director of the Association of Association Executives, organisers of the Associations World Congress, about why associations need to work out a sustainable pricing policy for online events and why a resumption of international events will rely heavily on an internationally coordinated vaccine passport.
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Fiona Pelham has been leading the charge for more sustainable business events for more than 15 years. In this sixth episode of Deep Dive, the CEO of Positive Impact Events talks to AMI Editor James Lancaster about the changes she has seen over that period, how Covid-19 has shifted the narrative on sustainability, her hopes for COP26, and why she thinks carbon targets for the events industry are the best way to focus mind.
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"I was looking at the list of things that were allowed to reopen in the UK. It was very British. Model villages. Outdoor ice-rinks. No disrespect - but I don't think the economic impact of ice rinks really compares to business events". AMI editor James Lancaster talks shop with Kai Hattendorf, MD and CEO of UFI, The Global Association of the Exhibitions Industry. And they covered some ground: why do some governments understand 'business events' while others don't? Should we have sympathy for policymakers? Why have the famously undemonstrative Japanese been losing their reserve? And why do associations matter in times of crisis? Those questions and more and covered in this latest edition of Deep Dive.
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The coronavirus pandemic and the widespread cancellation of in-person meetings has forced associations to revisit their online member engagement strategies – or develop them where none previously existed. But establishing a vibrant online community is not easy and for many associations the big question is still: where to start? On this edition of Deep Dive we talk to Marjorie Anderson, Community Manager at the Professional Management Institute and owner of Community by Association, and to answer that question and more.
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What exactly is that buzz delegates get at meetings? How can attending or chairing meetings enhance your professional credibility? Who should be chairing your next meeting? And does the word ‘legacy’ actually mean anything?
These are some of the fascinating topics we discuss with Thomas Trøst Hansen, former industrial fellow at Wonderful Copenhagen, whose recently defended PhD thesis The Impact of Academic Events has becoming a milestone publication for the business events industry…
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AMI editor James Lancaster catches up with industry thought leader Jane Cunningham to discuss how associations and destinations can work together to create more meaningful and effective meetings that benefit everyone – the association, the host city, and society in general, and why she thinks it’s essential we talk about purpose…
About the guest:
Jane is Director of Community Engagement for BestCities Global Alliance and Global Ambassador for the Joint Industry Meeting Council (JMIC), promoting the positive impact of business events. She has a passion for facilitating engagement between associations and destination stakeholders to promote the positive societal impact that conferences have on a destination. She is also an active member the International Association of Facilitators where she has just embarked on a six-month mentorship programme and is part of the marketing team to promote the Global Congress in Stockholm.
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Martin Sirk outlines the challenges and the opportunities facing not-for-profits after the pandemic.
AMI editor James Lancaster caught up with industry thought leader Martin Sirk to discuss what role business events will play in reshaping the world after Covid-19 and how associations will have to adapt to a new and challenging landscape.
Martin has a mix of clients including IMEX, UFI, SITE and other international associations and meetings companies. He is expert advisor to tech start-up Kubify, strategic relations advisor to IASP, the International Association for the Study of Pain, and international advisor to Global Association Hubs Partnership, helping associations achieve their objectives by working with GAHP partner cities Brussels, Dubai, Singapore & Washington DC.
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