WE'RE ALL FRIENDS HERE: Recent Episodes
Lauren Maxwell
The audio version of WE'RE ALL FRIENDS HERE, a weekly column for people asking life's big questions.
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Not just a privileged or religious few.
You can also read this essay at laurenmaxwell.substack.com.
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I hope you enjoy the audio version of WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE.
You can also watch a video of this homily. Special thanks to feminist quantum physicist Karen Barad, whose work influenced this message.
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For the big-hearted among us, boundaries can be terrifying.
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"Spirituality” isn’t as complicated as it seems.
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Let’s indulge ourselves; plus, a new cadence for fall.
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A pathway to saving ourselves that actually makes sense.
Become a sponsor at https://lalamaxwell.square.site.
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Taking a look at where we’ve been, where we’re going, and asking for your support. Can you become a sponsor today?
Listen for a behind the scenes look at why I am asking for your support, and choose one of four sponsorship levels at https://lalamaxwell.square.site/.
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We are between seasons, between chapters, between tragedies, and between laughs.
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Birthing people will nourish and sustain others no matter how difficult it becomes, and that inspires me.
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What I am learning from living a very chaotic year.
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Sometimes science is the best place to find a little hope.
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Plus some big news.
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Permission to be not-busy, not-scrolling, not-striving.
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The thing that will never let us down.
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Girl needs god — but maybe not like you think.
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I won’t wait for heaven; I want it right now.
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The stoics bring all the boys to the yard.
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My marriage for a decade now.
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Reciprocity is critical in relationships.
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I’m sorry I brought song lyrics into this.
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Being nuts isn’t so bad.
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Keep me honest but let me sing.
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The one thing that helped me through a stressful period.
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What do you do when you’re scared of making the wrong decision?
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How do we stay connected to something greater than ourselves when our dog gets sick, a war erupts, and the entire world is...?
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Mere pennies will make you rich; or, The Story of a Stolen Coat.
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I relish the opportunity to pause. And to invite others to pause with me and enjoy the richness that each person offers. I find endless value in anything that explores the wholeness of people in a truer way. I’m really interested in the divine spark that I believe exists in everything around us — every person, every living element — and I love the fact that if you open the door for people, hand them a microphone, and tell them you’re listening, you can almost always see that divine spark shine through.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations about life’s biggest questions. Today, I’m grateful and excited to share the final episode of season one!
As this season comes to a close, I wanted to pause and reflect on what these conversations have represented about the experience of being a human in the world in 2020. To help me take a look back, I invited John Young Shik Concklin to return to the show.
In this episode, John and I explore what I’ve learned from interviewing people about living through a pandemic. Despite everyone’s differences, beautiful themes emerged. We also talked about creative process and my own experience getting through this year.
We discussed the reason I love dinner parties, how I access new ideas and potential, the necessity of unplugging, and why I love hearing about the messy unfolding of people’s lives over the tidy narratives they’ll be telling in five years.
This project has been an absolute pleasure, and I’m grateful to every guest for being part of it. I can’t wait to see what form Let’s Talk takes next, but in the meantime, enjoy the show.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
On whether or not the pandemic is a life-changing event:
I don’t know if I was redirected to a different version of myself, or if I was just accelerated to a truer version of myself that was always going to emerge. It’s impossible to say. But I can say with certainty that this pandemic has shaped the paths I see for going forward.
John asked what I learned from interviewing people about living through a pandemic, and I responded:
This has been so invigorating and inspiring… All of these people have different experiences, anecdotes, stories, and perspectives. But what I loved were the themes that emerged in all of them. They are telling of the human experience, of what it means to be a person trying their best in the year 2020.
While discussing those themes, we talked about hope:
In the words of Mariame Kaba, prison abolition activist, hope is a discipline. It’s easy to feel helpless in the face of all this chaos. Staying committed to Martin Luther King’s arc of justice is one way forward. Choosing to see the good, even when it’s hard — that’s a discipline.
On the future of Let’s Talk and WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE:
I’d like for this to be a place where people can think about the big questions that we don’t always have time to think about elsewhere, that aren’t highlighted in mainstream outlets. I’m seeing more and more people turn their gaze towards those kinds of questions, almost like a gentle but collective awakening. I’m interested to see where that path guides all of us.
If you enjoyed our story about Also Sprach Zarathustra, you can have a listen here.
I’ve interviewed nine thoughtful people about living through a pandemic this year. We’ve had so much fun. Check out Let’s Talk wherever podcasts are found!
WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE runs on donations from people like you.
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I believe in the timing of things. I believe we all have a reason for being. So I am trusting that whatever is happening now is leading us all to our greater purpose, and we’re just living it out daily.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations about life’s biggest questions. Today, I’m very happy for you to meet Blair Knobel, my sounding board and trusted confidante.
Blair Knobel is the editor-in-chief of TOWN, a Greenville, South Carolina-based monthly lifestyle magazine on the arts, culture, style, and society of the progressive South. A food lover, sky watcher, and frequent traveler, she is also a soul searcher, over-thinker, and hopeful dreamer.
In this episode, Blair and I explore how darkness often highlights its counterpart, light, why honesty has become so critical this year, and the power of nature to heal on a personal, but also collective, level.
We talked about divine expression and the interconnectedness of life, along with our desire for a soothing, inclusive version of spirituality that represents more than just one thing. Blair also shared what solitude has illuminated for her this year; quietness, it seems, helps her get to the heart of what life’s all about.
Blair’s thoughtful perspective on living through a pandemic holds essential wisdom that relates to everyone, and I hope you enjoy it.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
As Blair and I discussed nature’s healing potential, she offered:
Everything is cyclical. Nature mimics that in so many respects… There’s so much around us that’s telling about infinity and how we are connected to it.
The quietness of this year has helped Blair explore the spiritual on an evermore personal level. She explains:
I enjoy the experience of quiet, especially when I’m in nature or a space where I’m able to quiet the mind… I have felt a depth that it’s becoming more apparent to me we all have access to.
…Because the pandemic has created space to be with myself, and in nature, it has revealed that there is something always keenly pulling, always there, and we are connected to something much more pronounced and greater than our day to day.
When asked what she’s learned about herself this year, Blair muses:
I’m seeing myself more keenly, perhaps… I’m getting used to my quirks. You’re living with yourself, in a pandemic or not, and you might as well love you who you are.
Blair and I agree that, in many respects, this year has stripped everything down to its essential nature — the curtain has been pulled wide open. As a result, we are called to act on many fronts, and it’s up to us to do so. She adds:
It’s understanding what you have to do and then simply taking the action to do it… and trusting that the action, the path, the grander gesture, will lead to something good. …We have a daily choice. What is the higher choice?
I’ve interviewed nine thoughtful people about living through a pandemic this year, which has been deeply rewarding. We’ve discussed fear, joy, and the big issues of our time. We’ve also laughed a lot. Check out Let’s Talk wherever podcasts are found!
WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE runs on donations from people like you.
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You can get into a rut of constantly wondering what the next thing is — am I going to get it, am I going to make it, whatever that means — but there’s enough to go around. If you focus in the moment, then you have all you need.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations about life’s biggest questions. Today, I’m thrilled for you to meet John Young Shik Concklin.
John Young Shik Concklin is a conductor, violist, and nonprofit advisor based wherever the work is. As a conductor, he's served on the faculties of Vanderbilt, Furman, Clemson, and Converse Universities, worked with numerous orchestras, including the Nashville Symphony and the Atlanta Symphony, and conducts the Piedmont Chamber Orchestra and the Atlanta Music Project, an organization for music-as-social-change. As a nonprofit operative, he advises organizations, political campaigns, and governments on public policy, strategy development, and data analysis. John also holds a seat in the Greenville Symphony Orchestra as a violist and co-founded Mozart for a Cause, an annual benefit concert, with me.
Spoiler alert: John and I are married.
In this episode, we explore how it felt to have the rug pulled out from under him as an artist last spring and why he believes in making music — even now. We also talked about his zen approach to career, or how he cultivates trust in the long game, despite the future of music being uncertain.
We discussed how hard — and rewarding — it has been to try to shape a life around our values and remain dedicated to that path together.
When it comes to racial justice, John talked about impacting his personal spheres of influence and how he thinks people and organizations might attempt values-level change. We explored ways the virus has made today’s big issues acutely obvious, and why art can’t thrive until humans can count on basic things like survival.
We also talked about the importance of inviting people to be part of the revolution rather than shaming them, which interestingly, is the same approach he uses when standing in front of orchestras. Making music, he says, is a people business.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
When exploring whether or not art is truly essential in the world as we know it, John offers:
Covid has blown the lid off all the things that were already plaguing us. We live in the 21st century, in the richest country in the world. Why are some people worried about survival? That shouldn’t be a thing. So why would we expect anybody who’s struggling to survive to show up to an orchestra concert? That’s got to be the last thing on their mind.
He adds:
It blows me away that there were so many people, pre-Covid, that in spite of working hard and being good people, were devalued by whatever capitalist economy we have that says they’re not worth survivability… It seems inhumane. And then we wonder why art can’t thrive. It’s because, as a society, we hold weird, barbaric values that are the antithesis of humanity.
John also reflects on how his relationship to music has changed as a result of this pause. He still spends hours learning music each week:
Because I’m not conducting, the scores I’ve been learning have, in silence, somehow become more alive and vibrant. And maybe it’s because I miss standing in front of orchestras. But if you do these pieces over and over again, it’s hard not to remember the last performance, the sound of the last orchestra. Because it’s been months now, I start to imagine new sounds, which has been fun.
Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this conversation and want to hear more thoughtful people exploring the big questions of our time, check out earlier episodes of Let’s Talk wherever you get your podcasts. I’ve loved every single one.
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Now I can build a life that I don't want to escape from.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations about life’s biggest questions. Today, I’m so excited for you to meet my friend Alrinthea Carter.
Alrinthea Carter is an improviser, photographer, and writer based in Greenville, SC. She is the Executive Producer and Player Advocate of Alchemy Comedy Theater, where she also teaches improv and created the Black Lady Improv Workshop. She has served as Producer for the New South Comedy Festival and the Greenville Comedy Marathon, and she studied at Alchemy Comedy Theater, The Pack Theater, Camp Improv Utopia, and Second City of Hollywood. Alrinthea's photography focuses on the landscape of the abandoned south. She is hopelessly devoted to Prince, the search for the perfect sandwich, and finally finishing that stack of books on her nightstand.
In this episode, Alrinthea and I explore what quarantine has taught her about priorities and mental health, the magic of human connection, the low-key food media that got us through early lockdown, and comedy’s role in our need for escape. We also talked about self-care and made serious predictions about the future of hugging.
This conversation brought me a lot of joy, and I’m grateful to Al for sharing her generous spirit and optimism with us all.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
When asked about the essential nature of laughter, Alrinthea responded:
I think that comedy is one of those things that is very crucial, but people don't realize that until they really need it… It gives you a chance to enjoy life and take a break from having to go out into the real world for a little bit.
As we discussed how the pandemic has helped her clarify her needs and desires, Alrinthea compares this year to the Before Times:
It’s made me ask myself what I’ve been clinging onto to avoid taking really honest inventory of how I’m doing in any situation. Feeling like you’ve had something stripped away… really points out where you were using [your schedule] to distract yourself from the fact that you weren’t happy with how you were progressing… I was working several different jobs and busy all of the time, and I think a lot of that was because I was trying to escape…whatever. But now I can build a life that I don’t want to escape from.
Al and I want to hear about your favorite low-key food media, too — share it in the comments. And it would help us if you subscribe and give Let’s Talk a rating wherever you listen to podcasts!
If you enjoyed this conversation and want to hear more regular people exploring the big questions of our time, check out earlier episodes of Let’s Talk. I’ve loved every single one.
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There’s so much fertile ground in all of these spiritual traditions for moving forward and imagining and building a new world; I think we can collectively let go of the myth that religious faith should be an obstacle to progress.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations about life’s biggest questions. Today, I’m so excited for you to meet Abby Rosebrock, my life co-conspirator and an all-around inspiration.
Abby Rosebrock is a Brooklyn-based playwright, screenwriter and actress originally from South Carolina. Her work includes the plays Blue Ridge, Dido of Idaho, Singles in Agriculture and Different Animals. She frequently makes videos online with Layla Khoshnoudi. Catch them on Instagram at @abbyrosebrock and @female_query_.
In this episode, Abby and I talk about the intimacy of friendship, lots of books we love, creativity in capitalism, finding ethical paths forward in problematic industries, handling uncomfortable confrontations with power, and the meaningful way spiritual frameworks relate to political imperatives.
This conversation is rich with laughter, and lucky for you, I managed to only scream once.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
When we discussed the challenges of making art in capitalism, Abby reflected on the need for deep-rooted change:
It’s just really incredible to behold the contradictions in operation right now in the entertainment industry. The focus on social justice is promising and important, but there aren’t enough voices calling for a deconstruction of the valuing of people by dollar amounts.
Abby and I love to talk about spiritual and metaphysical frameworks of all kinds, which helped shape this conversation. She grew up in an evangelical setting and has spent time studying texts from many other traditions, which led her to a simple but critical conclusion:
I know that religious difference and distinctions play a huge role in people’s lives sometimes materially, but the more I read and learn, the more I think that the cliché that we’re all sort of going after the same thing is very real.
Many paths, one truth, as they say.
And as Abby and I explored at length, that “one truth” is integral to the ongoing quest for social healing and political transformation.
Let Abby and I know your favorite female singer of all time in the comments; we spent a good five minutes gushing about ours. You can help “Let’s Talk” grow by giving it a rating in your podcast app or sharing it online. To everyone who is considering becoming a sponsor for WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE, you have my truest, deepest gratitude.
In the words of Abby Rosebrock, stay crazy out there.
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It was nice to have a serendipitous moment of running into you a few months ago, and unexpectedly catching up — simply crossing paths. That's something I miss. It's very difficult to have those kinds of moments when you're in your house by yourself.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations about life’s big questions. This week, I’m very happy for you to meet my friend Andrew Huang.
Join Andrew and me for a conversation about how the simple act of speaking to neighbors became a novelty, his experience navigating the racial justice movement as an Asian American, and the must-have salty snacks for quarantine. Andrew points out, and I agree, that one of the things we miss most this year is the serendipitous pleasure that springs up from moving through the world freely.
Andrew is a writer, photographer, foodie, recovering menswear enthusiast, and reluctant functional fitness gym goer. Currently, he’s a social media and content strategist at Brains on Fire, a creative agency in Greenville, SC, and Los Angeles, CA. He's also the editor-at-large for TOWN, a magazine exploring the stories and culture of the progressive South.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
When asked what joys he’s encountered in lockdown, Andrew shares what it’s been like to get to know both his house and his neighbors in new ways this year:
I'm really enjoying seeing how different parts of my house look at different times of the day. Just the way the light comes in, which is a very simple thing. [Or] being able to see the sunset in my neighborhood. And I've actually met all my neighbors now, which has been a pleasant surprise.
Andrew approaches the Black Lives Matter movement with the same thoughtfulness he applies to everything. He talks about how even those who always believed in racial justice must transition from “little-c change” in the form of everyday, well-intentioned acts — like calling out racism and holding space for Black voices in the workplace and elsewhere — to “big-C Change,” or a united, full-capacity push for transformation at a radical, systemic level.
When considering community members who are still uncomfortable with that, Andrew clarifies the bottom line:
Trying to make sure somebody else is not inconvenienced should not take precedence over another human being's life.
He’s right, of course. It’s that simple.
Let Andrew and me know your best pandemic snacks in the comments, and — you probably saw this coming — since I started an accidental podcast, you can help me out by giving it a rating or review when you listen. As always, thank you for being here! Take care out there — I’ll see you next time.
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Oh gosh, I miss real people so much.
Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations exploring the struggle and beauty of being alive. Our country needs more healing spaces and experiences, especially now, and my hope is that Let’s Talk may meet that need in some small way.
This week, I’m excited for you to meet my former professor and dear friend, Kelly.
Kelly McElrath Vaneman is Professor of Oboe and Musicology at Converse College in Spartanburg, South Carolina. She knows that probably sounds mind-numbingly boring, but it’s actually one of the most exciting lives she could have imagined. She gets to do things like teach students about Medieval troubadours and Indian hip-hop and take them to Europe, and she performs everything from Bach to the Beatles. She also composes, which usually involves a fair amount of stomping and clapping; through her music, she looks to build a sense of joyful community. For the record, she’s very into Medieval marginalia and the Muppets.
Join us for a conversation about how music transcends time and space during a pandemic — and how it doesn’t — and what history has to tell us about the resilience of society and art in times of great upheaval. Kelly also offers perspective on how different generations are responding to the seismic shifts we’re witnessing today.
Listen above or find us in your favorite podcast app.
When considering the pandemic and the Black Lives Matter movement happening simultaneously, Kelly remains optimistic:
We've got the twin problems of the pandemic and racial injustice going on, and this is going to sound strange... But I find myself actually being really hopeful. About both of these things together. And part of it comes from spending so much time with younger people. And part of it comes from spending so much time with old history.
On the endurance of civilization and art amidst chaos:
Seldom in history do you have just one big problem to deal with at a time. They always seem to show up together and feed off each other. Even with things like the fall of Rome, when this great empire fell and fell hard — afterwards, amazing societies emerged. There has always been change, and there will always be change. And on one hand, when we see these giant shifts, there are things lost. But there are also new things that bloom.
As I told Kelly, I think that’s cause for hope, indeed.
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Welcome back to Let’s Talk, a series of conversations exploring the struggle and beauty of being alive. Our country needs more healing spaces and experiences, especially now, and my hope is that Let’s Talk may meet that need in some small way.
This week, I’m thrilled to introduce my dear friend and colleague in the yoga world, Christy. Join us for a conversation about living with discomfort rather than pushing it away, raising consciousness to better serve ourselves and others, and her experience relating racism against the Asian community to the Black Lives Matter movement.
Christy Kokami is a yoga specialist in alignment, backcare, and scoliosis. Based out of NYC, she joins us from her former home in Hawaii, where she is taking advantage of this time to play and share in the online world of yoga and healthy bites (check out her YouTube channel), meditate with Buddhist monks, and most importantly, hang out with her grandmother, who is her favorite human. Connect with her on Instagram at @christykokami.
Listen above, find us in your favorite podcast app, or read on.
Lauren: Christy! We're living through such a chaotic time. I want to start by asking you how you're feeling right now, today.
Christy: I think there's been an ongoing feeling, since a little bit before the pandemic started, of underlying anxiety. We're living in a very uncomfortable and anxiety-provoking time, with the coronavirus and the things that are happening within our own country, in terms of having to reform and shift. It's okay, though. Having the anxiety is good, because it helps you get clarity on what you want to enact and how can you work with that. It's not about pressing it. It's not about pushing it away. It's about really understanding where it comes from and moving in a direction that will serve yourself, and in turn, serve everybody.
Lauren: I like what you said about learning how to work with that reality. It's kind of like being in relationship with it rather than, as you said, running in the other direction.
Christy: Oh, yeah. That's when things get really weird, and not in a good way.
Lauren: Tell us how this pandemic has affected your life and livelihood.
Christy: As you know, I'm a yoga instructor. I have shifted everything online. I started doing things on YouTube, Patreon, and teaching classes on the internet. It's been an interesting shift, because I noticed a lot of my work — you know, since we do yoga for backcare and scoliosis — is translatable and useful to a large audience. Because it's now available online, I can reach people in my network who I normally wouldn't be able to serve. I was initially seeing people from my New York network, and it slowly started shifting to people from my Hawaii, Colorado, and California networks. People around the globe have back pain. It's very common, especially with the way that we live now. It's been nice, and it's put me back in contact with a lot of people I am not usually able to see.
Lauren: Yeah. I think that's a refreshing way to look at it. By living through this experience, have you run into any particular challenges or struggles along the way?
Christy: Definitely. With the pandemic, and what's been said about the Asian community as a result — it's been very interesting seeing how that has affected the way I interact with people. It's made me more aware. I grew up in Hawaii, where as an Asian person, I was part of the majority. I was very fortunate to experience that. But seeing Asian people in the mainland who have been attacked as a result of the coronavirus — that's been very eye opening for me. I've been very lucky to have a network that's been very vocal about it. We've seen terrible things, like people being attacked out of nowhere. Even old people. And you just don't punch old people, you know? So that's been very awakening.
It has also been eye-opening to see what comes up in my own view of that, too. To really examine and lean into it and ask myself: What would make somebody so angry that they would attack someone? To really try to understand how this happens, how we can prevent it from happening, and avoid that misunderstanding and level of hatred — or whatever it is. That's been a very interesting practice.
Lauren: Yeah. When you try to understand where they're coming from, how does it help you, or where does it guide you?
Christy: I think it helps soften me. So I don't become so upset about how we let this happen. It also helps me empathize with other groups and see what my role relating to them has been. During a meditation, I was thinking about how we're seeing a resurgence of racism within the Asian community. It's something that has happened many times before, and it's interesting to ask why, culturally, this has sort of been okay. There's the whole idea of the model minority... culturally, what have we done that has kind of helped this happen, right? Being an Asian person is a lot about not showing your suffering, not burdening others with your pain, and just pushing through.
And that might've worked for our ancestors. It might've gotten us through, but I've had to look at what really serves us now, because we live in a different time. So it's been really cool to see people kind of wake up, and see myself kind of wake up, in terms of where I come from, culturally. What about that is serving me? What about it is not? What do I want to perpetuate? How can I support other groups, too? Because at the end of the day, we're all the same.
Lauren: Yes. What you're saying is so powerful, and beautiful — the way you're allowing your personal experience with racism to trickle out to compassion and support for other groups. In a lot of ways, that feels like the theme of this year, because the pandemic — take racial justice out of the equation, just for a moment -- shows our interconnectedness and how one person's health or lack of health affects people in their vicinity. I love how that's being mirrored in your thoughts on racial justice. Your experience influences the way you think and react to another group's experience. It's powerful. It seems like this year is setting us up for a lot of big realizations like that.
Christy: Coming together is the big theme. With the pandemic, everyone has a choice about how they want to interact. You can really zoom in to your own wants and needs — like, I want to go back to work so I can feed my family — and that's totally legit. But when it starts like infringing on other people's rights and health... When you're unable to zoom out enough to see that it might not be safe for other people, it might spread disease. It's interesting to see how people react and how much they can widen their scope for other people. It's tough, because there's not always a right answer.
Lauren: It's living with as much graciousness as you can for yourself and others. My thought about zooming in on your own livelihood was that there is something innately human in that. We've had to worry about our own survival forever, and that's natural, but maybe this is also part of our evolution. Maybe we're being invited towards it this year -- how can I think, not only about my own survival, my own livelihood, but also about the survival of those around me, the other people in my community and world?
Christy: Yeah. In Buddhism, there are so many different types of hells. They're all layered. I don't think of them as literal hells that you go to, with monsters, although that's how they're described. You can be reborn into any of these. One is animal hell. In this animal hell, you're basically just an animal; you're very reactive to everything around you. So, I don't look at it as actually turning into an animal. I think it represents different levels of consciousness. How awake you are to what's going around you. Even in the highest level of hell, where things are "better," everything is super amazing, but things are so good that you you're completely ignorant of all the suffering that happens below, and that in itself is suffering.
Lauren: Wow. Yeah. It's so interesting how we see those mirrored in humanity — in living, breathing humans — and maybe perhaps especially mirrored during this pandemic. Yeah... [laughter]
What unexpected sources of comfort or joy have you been able to find during all of this?
Christy: I've been finding joy in a lot of very simple comforts. I've been going back to things I had been wanting to do more of, so I do a lot of meditation. I do a lot of yoga. I found that I had been putting those things off a lot before the pandemic, and shortening my time with them so I could work. It's nice that I've been able to give back to myself so I can really hone in on being able to share from a place of authenticity. That's what my work is for, to be able to self-examine and heal. That has been a big source of comfort. It's also taught me how to know when I need to back off — a lot of us who are attracted to New York are fiery personalities and go getters — so it's been great to dig into that soft side, that sweet side. It's okay to rest, really rest, where you're not allowing your mind to race everywhere. You're very present.
Lauren: Yes. Because even if we're aware of the so-called grind and try to manage its effects, when you're participating in the world, doing your thing, and living your purpose, it's hard not to get caught up in the race. You feel its effects on your spirit, health, mental wellness, everything. I think you're right; the power of rest has been highlighted in a nice way this year. I hope that that stays with us after this is over.
Christy: I think it's one of the great gifts of this particular situation. Understanding that you can be of better service to others if you are of better service to yourself. Philosophically all of these practices, like yoga and Buddhism, talk about cultivating that sort of compassion and softness within yourself. It's ultimately going to affect how you interact with the world and how you see it.
Lauren: We've already touched a bit on the outcry for racial justice we're seeing in the US right now. We haven't seen anything like this in our lifetimes, and it's been both invigorating and alarming, as we look at the things we haven't dealt with for so long. I'm curious about the fact that we're finally paying attention in the middle of a pandemic. I'm not sure that's a coincidence. Do you think the pandemic played a role in this outcry?
Christy: Definitely. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez has been talking about how all of the issues with healthcare and racial inequality did not just appear. These things were happening for long periods of time. They are part of a system that is broken. And because the pandemic put a lot of people into unemployment or working from home, we had the opportunity to face our thoughts all day and confront them. Things are quieter because you're not distracted by hobbies or hanging out with friends. You have to face all of your demons and everything about the system. We've had more time to be thoughtful and dig into these issues, and we're constantly sharing information on social media, which I think has helped a lot of people wake up and see what's happening. That has helped the Black Lives Matter movement.
Lauren: I think so too. Because people were stuck at home and overwhelmed by the pandemic, they couldn't distract themselves, this time, from the violence against Black Americans — by the grind, by busyness, by productivity, all those things. They could no longer turn their heads from this issue.
Okay. What do you miss most? If you could go out right now and not even worry about a mask or getting close to people, what's the one thing you would do?
Christy: Omg. There are so many things. I would just give all of my friends and loved ones a big hug.
Lauren: OMG. That is the best and most simple answer, but it really says it all.
Christy: Physical contact is ingrained in us. It's just one of the ways we express love.
Lauren: Yeah. I've wondered how the generations that are alive right now will suffer after this, if we'll carry this experience of not being able to touch for a long period with us in some way. It would be interesting to figure out — does hugging actually reduce after this? Does closeness or physical intimacy decline in some way?
Christy: It probably does have a huge impact on our psyche. In Hawaii, the way that we greet each other, even if we don't know the other person, is by giving a hug. And we give one of those fake air kisses. We're very physical people, even if we don't know you. It's always been funny, whenever I've moved back to the mainland, where you give people handshakes.
Lauren: That makes sense. I hadn't put this together, and I've never been to Hawaii, but — for those who don't know, Christy and I did yoga training together in New York and have taken a lot of classes together. She is never afraid to touch someone who has an injury or needs a massage to work out a tight muscle.
Do you think you'll be a different person on the other side of this year? Do you expect it to change you?
Christy: Oh, yeah. I think it has already changed everybody. Like, you're never going to stay the same person. I'm not the same person that I am at the beginning of this interview. Everything is constantly changing. After this pandemic, I'd like to think I'd be a little softer, a little more thoughtful, and awake to a bigger perspective and global community — one in which I might have a better idea of what role I play in it.
Lauren: That's amazing. You're right. There's no normal, we're always changing, and change is the only constant. We might as well lean into that.
Christy: Definitely. I mean, or you could run from it. That's also an option.
Lauren: Good luck with that!
[laughter]
Be sure to listen to the recording for bonus conversation about togetherness and belonging at the end! And continue getting to know Christy — she’s wonderful — on Instagram and YouTube.
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WE’RE ALL FRIENDS HERE has become a space for asking big questions — like how to reconcile creative freedom with the need for stability, how to preserve the shimmering truth of self in high capitalism, and where exactly, in this ad and algorithm-driven landscape, we all belong.
Welcome to Let’s Talk, a new series of conversations exploring the struggle and beauty of being alive. Our country needs more healing spaces and experiences, especially now, and since we can’t find them where we usually might, by gathering in person, my hope is that Let’s Talk may meet that need in some small way.
This week, it’s a true pleasure to introduce you to my dear friend, Travis. Join us for a conversation about fear and joy in quarantine, Black Lives Matter, and his experience as a Black man who feels more in harm’s way walking through his own neighborhood than he does in a global pandemic.
Travis LeMont Ballenger is a generative artist. He has produced for a number of companies, including Arena Stage, Hip-Hop Theater Festival, The Drama League of New York, and The Old Globe Theater, where he currently serves as Associate Artistic Director. Travis also worked as a producer for Market Road Films, primarily creating films for National Geographic. In August, Travis will start as a producer with Lia Vollack Productions, a New York-based commercial producing company.
Listen above, find us in your favorite podcast app, or read on.
Lauren: Travis, I’m so glad you’re here. How are you doing today? We've all been isolating for two and a half months now, and I'm wondering how you're feeling in this moment.Travis: Well, I'm a mixed bag, as I have been this entire time. I've had some positive things happen today, and I have fun things to look forward to. And then I also found myself frustrated and upset about other things that happened. I'm just a mixed bag. I'm very tired — everything with George Floyd and working through that in the moment of this pandemic, for example. But I was also able to get contacts for the first time and put them in my eyes. So there was a win. Lauren: That's absolutely a win. Talking about those more difficult emotions makes me wonder: Has living through this experience, in all its complexity, made you feel fearful in any way? Travis: Yes, definitely. There are moments when I'm afraid of what is to come, because this is obviously not the end. There's something on the other side. I'm not a paranoid person, but this time has taught me to question my hope and my glass-half-full nature. Maybe I need to be better prepared. Maybe I need to always assume that something else is coming. I also live alone in a city that I'm still very new to. That has been terrifying because if I get sick, I'll be by myself. Also, I've never experienced such silence for so long, and that has been both illuminating and invigorating — and sometimes terrifying. Lauren: How has that been illuminating for you? Travis: I am getting to know myself again. This past year, I traveled a lot and worked nonstop, and this spring, I was supposed to be entering another situation where I did the same. Having this time to just sit with myself and re-experiment with how to speak to and care for myself has been illuminating. I've learned that I am a person who desperately needs a routine. I need structure and systems in my life, and it turns out I can meet that challenge and give myself structure and systems. I'm really proud of that. At first, I felt a little ashamed that I put so much stock into things like waking up at 6:30 AM, always working out and doing this and that. But then I realized, if I don't do these things and stick to this plan, I will fall apart. So I stick to the plan. That's healthy, not painful. Lauren: I admire that because I'm not someone who comes to structure and discipline naturally. I seek a certain creative freedom at all times, but I've also learned that I need structure to stay on track. I haven’t been as successful at finding it, so yeah, that's a major achievement. Travis: It's hard. In my life growing up, I didn't have a ton of structure. It was all freedom to some extent, but in that, it felt oppressive. So I've been able to give structure to myself and say, no, you're going to get up and do this, because this is going to make you feel good. It will help you sleep better. It's going to...Lauren: ...be worth it on the other side. Travis: Yeah. And you know, I'm still holding hope that I'll get at least a week this summer in a skimpy bikini on a beach. I'm preparing for that whenever it comes. Lauren: From your lips! Okay. Keep me posted. I think I need that, too. These fears and challenges have been so present for all of us lately, which is one reason why these conversations are important — so we can feel a sense of camaraderie and support. But along with that, have you found unexpected sources of joy these past two months? Travis: This is going to sound bizarre. But with George Floyd and all of the other Black people who have been killed by the police or others during this pandemic, I’m seeing my white friends pay more attention. They’re using language I didn't hear during Trayvon or Ferguson — about anti-racism or what it means to really hear someone. I think it's directly connected to this pandemic.
This does not sound like a moment of joy, but for me, it actually is. There is something about discovering that the systems we have in place don't always work or protect you. I think white people realizing that now allows them to hear that these systems have not been working for a very long time; that there are other people who have been trampled by the same government that was built to protect us; and that what we need to do is redesign these systems. We need to change the way things are structured so more people can be protected. Lauren: As your friend, I'm so happy to hear you're finding some joy there. It sounds like it’s joyful to discover that all the fights up to this point, all the speaking up for your life mattering is finally being heard — like maybe each conversation pushed a bit further until finally, the pandemic put us over the tipping point. Travis: Absolutely. How can it not, right? We didn't have to get here, all locked inside of our homes for the foreseeable future, but we did. So now we're all analyzing the structures that led to this. We're looking at what's working and what's broken. I think people are actually getting better at that. Feeling it impact them personally changes how they see it impacting other people. Lauren: It really does. So many white Americans are experiencing what it feels like to be let down by the system for the first time. There's no going back from that. I wish they'd had the empathy to consider it before, but if that's a positive we can take from this, then...Travis: ...here we are. Yes.Lauren: I love the way you're pulling out that silver lining. I’ve been thinking nonstop about the protests in Minneapolis and around the world this week. It's striking to me that Black Americans are being forced, in this moment, to choose between their survival in two different ways. They can put themselves at risk in terms of the pandemic and go to a protest, or they can risk not protesting, which is another means of not standing up for their own survival. They have to choose between a deadly virus and deadly police officers. It seems there comes a time when there is no other answer but to put your actual body on the line. Do you have thoughts on this?Travis: I have more fear of being killed by the police than I do of dying from the coronavirus. I feel like I am much more in harm's way when I walk through my upper-middle class, all-white neighborhood in Hillcrest, San Diego than I am in the pandemic. So I don't think there is an option — we have to protest. I also think people are sitting in their homes with less work to do. Things have slowed down. We have more time to think and consider change. Everyone feels angry, as we should be — I mean, just enraged. We're enraged for a myriad of reasons — the deaths of Black people by agents of the state, but also having this happen while we're locked in our homes. We're all looking for ways to channel that rage. So I don't think we have a choice. We have to do it. Lauren: Yeah. Right. Maybe in a way we've already answered this, but I want to ask you anyway. A lot of people have been saying, "I just want to go back to normal." But going back to "normal” is not possible, because the whole world is different now. The only constant is change, and we can only move forward. So, if a new world order could emerge after this pandemic, and we could be part of creating it, what's the's the first thing you would like to see as part of its foundation? Travis: That's a great question. For me, it has to do with the health of all people, in really big terms. If we can learn anything from this, it's that life is precious, and that everyone's life is precious. But some people's lives have mattered less than other people's. How do we ensure that all people’s lives matter? How do we ensure that by looking at the lives that matter less? I mean that in terms of Black lives matter. And also healthcare. And housing rights. These systems are all connected. We weren’t able to see their interconnectivity until some programs came to a stop, but now it’s more obvious that we can’t fix this little piece over here or duct tape that piece over there — we have to look at the whole thing and ask how to make it better. If we can start by ensuring that everyone is living fully, then wherever we go will be good. Lauren: Yeah. I love how you distilled that. If we can get this one fundamental thing right, all other decisions will be a natural progression from that. Every living thing matters. For me, people are critical, but it extends to all life — because as we lose biodiversity, and however many species go extinct every day now, I'd like to see us value all life on the planet and take action that backs that up with integrity, care, and thoughtfulness. Travis: If we need a human-centered reason behind it, there would probably be no Covid-19 if global warming wasn’t happening. These things are connected. If we don’t take care of the planet we're living on and the species we're living with...Lauren: Exactly. Deforestation brings wildlife closer to humans, so we're going to see more and more crossover of disease. We should probably all save our masks, if you know what I mean.Travis: Yes. This is definitely not going to be the last virus we see. And I didn't realize how unprepared for it we were. Even Barack Obama tried to tell us we weren't ready. How were we not prepared? Lauren: I know. This takes my mind back to what you were saying earlier about hope. Some of us find it within ourselves — every election, every situation — to dig up another shred of hope, and just offer it forward, palms upturned. Because all I can do is hope for the best for other people, for my country, and for this planet. Then it feels like someone takes their heel — from a big, heavy boot — and stomps on it, and also like, grinds the heel back and forth. But you said something about hope earlier — what were you saying? It was so beautiful. Travis: Well, my hope has been tested during this, and I've been frightened, but hope is, to some extent, a revolutionary act. Believing that things will get better requires us to make them better. Believing what we're doing will make things good is a revolutionary act. I don't like to think in terms of them against us, but for the powers that be, it's easier to control and dictate when there is no hope. So there’s something brave and courageous about making that choice. Lauren: Yes, they need us to be disempowered. And we didn't necessarily realize how brave the act of hope was when we took it for granted. The more it gets stomped out, the braver hope gets, the deeper we have to dig, and the more we have to find like-minded people who can help us keep going when we feel fearful or overwhelmed.Travis: When Barack Obama became President, I remember going crazy on the streets of Washington, D.C. and saying to someone, "This is it! Now the engines of the machine are working for good!" Somehow, I forgot that we still had things to do. We've got to clock in and do our part. Lauren: That definitely resonates, especially after having to show up over and over again these past four years — to make the calls, donate, do whatever we can. We have a long road ahead, but we'll do it together. Travis: Yes, we will. My goal is to find as many moments of joy as humanly possible, because we're going to need those to pick ourselves up.Lauren: You're so right. I feel like we could talk about finding good for all humanity forever, because don’t we both have some Aquarius going on?Travis: We do. This is very Aquarian conversation. But I found out the reading that told me I was a triple Aquarius was wrong! Now I'm a double Aquarius with a Leo thrown in somewhere. My entire identity was built around being a triple Aquarius, so I'm a little upset, but here we are.Lauren: I get that. But I've known you for almost 20 years now, and one thing I've always associated with you is that when you walk into a room, you literally light it up, and you bring this palpable joy and enthusiasm. That might be a little bit of your Leo shining through.Travis: So you're saying I shouldn't fight it — I should just embrace the Leo? Lauren: Possibly. The creativity and joy and enthusiasm! Thank you for sharing that with us here. Okay, one more question. If you heard tonight that the pandemic was miraculously over and everyone had been vaccinated, who is the first person you would rush to see tomorrow? Travis: Oh, that's a great question. If time and space were no issue... I have this group of friends, five guys in New York, who are very, very close. Sometimes we're too close. But we have not been together since before this happened, and that has felt emotionally damaging. I just want to sit in a room with them, like we used to, cuddling on a couch, all five of us piled on top of each other. That's what I would do. I would pile on a couch with those boys and just be.Lauren: That sounds amazing. I cannot wait till we can do that. Okay. Hope and joy. We will make it through. Travis: We're going to do it. We're going to be fine. I truly believe some positive and amazing things are going to come out of this. We're starting to see seeds of that now, with the demonstrations and agitation and demands people are making of their government. I think it’s the beginning of something great. So I remain hopeful, and maybe it's stupid of me, but I’ll try to hold on to that.Lauren: It’s not stupid at all. Yes, let’s do it together. Thank you so much, Travis. You're the best.
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