Politics with Michelle Grattan: Recent Episodes
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Michelle Grattan, Chief Political Correspondent at The Conversation, talks politics with politicians and experts, from Capital Hill.
From new ways to fast-track cheaper homes and renewable energy to bigger tax reforms, Treasurer Jim Chalmers tells the podcast his door is open for fresh ideas.
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On the podcast this week we're joined by Independent Tasmanian Senator Tammy Tyrrell to discuss chaotic state of politics on the Apple Isle.
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Ahead of Anthony Albanese's likely first meeting with Donald Trump this month, a US politics expert says 'begging' for lower tariffs would be a mistake.
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We're joined by Liberal Zoe McKenzie who was elected to the Melbourne electorate of Flinders in 2022. She joins us to talk about the Liberal party future.
From super changes to avoiding recession, federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers joins the podcast to discuss the government's priorities when Parziament returns in July.
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From super changes to avoiding recession, federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers joins the podcast to discuss the government's priorities when Parliament returns in July.
Assistant Minister Andrew Leigh is charged with lifting Australia's stagnant productivity. He says AI may help us do less drudge work, such as sending endless emails.
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David Pocock joins us today to talk about the new Senate situation, his aspirations for the next three years and the election generally.
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The election's over, it's a resounding win for Labor, but what now? How will the Liberal party rebuild?
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Ex-Labor strategist turned pollster Kos Samaras says both major parties have been slow in adapting to this year's huge pre-poll voter turnout.
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From handling town hall hecklers to swaying voters through podcasts and online algorithms, Australian election campaigns have transformed in recent generations.
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Joining us from Washington DC is Warwick McKibbin, an internationally renowned economic modeller from the ANU whose services are now in high demand.
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Defence expert Hugh White says Australia should leave AUKUS and plan to "take responsibility for our own security", without relying on the US coming to our aid.
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Kos Samaras, a director of the political consultancy firm Redbridge and a former Labor Party official joins to talk about the polls and the parties prospects.
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On this podcast we are joined by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor to talk about the budget.
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Independent MP Helen Haines, who holds the Victorian seat of Indi, has long focused on integrity issues, and she joined us on the podcast.
Josh Bornstein is a lawyer specialising in employment and labour relations law. His new book examines the problematic reach of the corporate hand into the private sphere. He joins us on the podcast.
We're joined on the podcast by Richard Holden, to talk about the book and also Australia's economic outlook, on what has been a big week for economic news.
Today we're joined on the podcast by Ghaith Krayem, a spokesman for the group Muslim Votes Matter. The group plans to back candidates who support the issues it says Muslims care about.
Andrew Hauser, the deputy governor of the RBA, joined us to talk about the RBA's thinking when it comes to inflation. Hauser formerly worked at the Bank of England and was chosen by Jim Chalmers.
We're joined on the podcast by former Australian ambassador to Washington, Joe Hockey, who's been attending the Democratic National Convention in Chicago.
Joining the podcast is Independent member for Clark, Andrew Wilkie. Wilkie has advocated for gambling reform during his entire political career.
Pat Turner is lead convener of the Coalition of Peaks and CEO of the National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation (NACCHO), and she joins the podcast.
To discuss the fast-changing US election and Kamala Harris moving to the top of the ticket we're joined by Lester Munson, a fellow with the United States Studies Centre.
Hear the former Australian ambassador's observations of 'a very different' Donald Trump at this week's Republican convention, and his predictions for Joe Biden's successor and AUKUS's future.
The now-independent senator joined the podcast to discuss her decision, the challenges of regrouping as a crossbencher, and the impact of the Muslim vote.
Minister for Climate Change and Energy Chris Bowen joins the podcast to discuss the ongoing costs of the energy transition and Peter Dutton's nuclear plan.
Peter Malinauskas joined the podcast to talk about AUKUS, bans on children under 14 accessing social media, restricting most political donations and Peter Duttons Nuclear announcement.
Clive Hamilton, who is Professor of Public Ethics at Charles Sturt University, joined us to talk about what Australia can do to not only survive a hotter world.
Andrew Norton, professor in the practice of higher education policy at the ANU, joined the podcast to dissect the governments new policy to cap international student intake.
Andrew Bragg joins us to explain why the coalition sees migration as a major issue when it comes to housing supply.
Joining us for the podcast Resources Minister Madeleine King pushes back against Coalition claims the green energy projects – developing green hydrogen and investment in processing critical minerals.
In this podcast were joined by shadow treasurer Angus Taylor and Treasurer Jim Chalmers to discuss the third Albanese government budget.
Senator James Paterson, Shadow Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security joins us to discuss the Coalition's position on the bill, as well as the issue of handling the former detainees.
In this podcast, we're joined by Dr Anne Summers, a longtime writer and advocate on women's issues to discuss the horrific number of women murdered this year.
In this podcast, we're joined by independent economist Chris Richardson to discuss the upcoming budget and Australia's economic outlook.
The stabbing of Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel in a church in Wakeley on Monday has left many in shock. Dai Le, whose electorate features the church where the incident happened discusses her community's reaction.
Labor MP Josh Burns joins us to discuss the government moving towards recognition of a Palestinian state to help facilitate a two-state solution and the wider Middle East crisis.
Andrew Leigh joins us to talk about longer-term economic outlook, reforms to made to the system and the need to increase competition and our flat-lined productivity.
Kim Beazley, a former Labor leader and Australia's ambassador in Washington joins us to talk about Donald Trump's denigrating comments about Kevin Rudd, AUKUS and the Australia-Chinese relationship.
TikTok has come into the spotlight after the US. congress proposed a bill to force it's sale away from Chinese owned company ByteDance. To discuss this we're joined by Cyber expert Lesley Seebeck.
We're joined by Michael Flood, professor at the Queensland University of Technology to discuss the harassment against women in boys only schools and what leads to some men and boys to mistreat women.
Today we're joined by Professor John Blaxland, Professor of International Security & Intelligence Studies at the Australian National University. Who gives us an overview of spying in Australia.
The recently released Universities Accord report featured recommendations for improving education in Australia. Joining us to discuss the government's response is Education Minister, Jason Clare.
The March 2 byelection in the outer suburban Melbourne seat of Dunkley is a challenge for the government. Labor goes in as the favourite but at a time of high cost of living will it's 6.3 margin be enough?
To discuss this week's policy announcement, the centrepiece of which is a $700 million jobs program for people in remote areas, we're joined by Northern Territory Senator Malarndirri McCarthy.
The new fuel efficiency standards regime will move Australia in the direction of comparable countries, but it has its critics. Minister for Climate Change and Energy Chris Bowen joins the podcast to discuss this policy and more.
In our first podcast of 2024, Shadow Treasurer Angus Taylor discusses the tax broken promise, where the economy is heading, falling inflation, and more.
Treasurer Jim Chalmers, overseer of the government's economic policy, joins us on the podcast to talk us about the latest budget numbers, interest rates, changes to the Reserve Bank board, Australia's debt, cost of living measures and more.
Bill Shorten, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and Government Services, has released the review of the NDIS, which recommends sweeping changes to the scheme. The reforms to come will see the states take up much of the responsibility for providing services for people with more minor issues, especially children with developmental delays.
Shorten joined the podcast to talk about the way ahead for a scheme that has run off the rails and become financially unsustainable.
Chris Bowen, Minister for Climate Change and Energy, next week heads to COP28 in Dubai, leading the Australian delegation. He joins the podcast to talk about the meeting, which he hopes will be easier than last year's was.
Greens Senator Barbara Pocock – who has a background in economics and industrial relations and formerly worked at the Reserve Bank, in the federal public service and as an academic – has been in parliament only since the 2022 election, But she has already made a mark.
Pocock has been one of the federal parliamentarians who has been holding the big consultancy firms to account this year.
PWC especially has felt the heat over its improper use of confidential government tax information for its commercial gain. The behaviour of the other consultancies has also been under strong scrutiny. Pocock and other members of parliament have shown how the parliamentary committee system can be used to great effect to hold big companies accountable when other avenues fail.
In this podcast, the Greens senator talks of the need for action to bring greater transparency.
Last week the High Court ruled that holding high-risk asylum seekers in indefinite detention was unconstitutional. As a consequence of the court decision, more than 80 people, some of whom were convicted of serious crimes including murder and rape, have been released. The government is now expected to rush in legislation to deal with the fallout.
In this podcast, Liberal senator and Shadow Minister for Home Affairs and Cyber Security James Paterson joins The Conversation to discuss the High Court’s ruling, his concerns about increasing anti-Semitism across the country, the rising cyber risks, and Australia’s future relations with China.
As climate minister in the former Labor government, Greg Combet has endured the rigours of the “climate wars”. He oversaw the highly contentious move to put a price on carbon, which ultimately came to grief under the Abbott government.
Fast forward a decade: now Combet has been appointed by Anthony Albanese to chair the government’s new Net-Zero Economy Agency. This agency, due later to become a statutory authority, is described on its website as:
responsible for promoting orderly and positive economic transformation across Australia as the world decarbonises, to ensure Australia, its regions and workers realise and share the benefits of the net zero economy.
Combet joins The Conversation to discuss the enormous challenges of Australia’s transition to renewable energy, its complications, and what is necessary to achieve our 2030 and 2050 commitments.
The International Monetary Fund (IMF) released a report this week calling on Australia to raise interest rates again, adding to the speculation the Reserve Bank will increase the cash rate on Tuesday.
If that happens it will be yet another blow to many household budgets, already under strain from the rises in the prices of food, fuel and power.
In this podcast, independent economist Chris Richardson joins The Conversation to discuss the expectations about a rate rise, “sticky” inflation, the fall in the standard of living, the difficulty of the government responding to the cost-of-living crisis, and a bleak prospect as we go into 2024, before we reach some light at the end of a long tunnel.
In this podcast, the Minister for Trade and Special Minister of State Don Farrell joins The Conversation to canvass Australia's prospective trade agreement with the EU, relations with China, and electoral reform
The prime minister heads to Washington next week for a state visit. Talks between Anthony Albanese and President Joe Biden will canvass progress on implementing the AUKUS agreement, Ukraine, China and the situation in the Asia-Pacific region, and of course the Middle East crisis. Biden will have just returned from his visit to Israel and will brief the PM on the situation, which has worsened by the day.
In this podcast, Kim Beazley, defence minister during the Hawke government, former Labor leader, and former Australian ambassador to the US, joins The Conversation to talk about the Albanese visit and the international situation.
Hamas' attack on Israel has unleashed a horrific conflict. Breaking out over the weekend, Palestinians murdered Israeli civilians and are threatening to execute many hostages. Israel countered with mass aerial bombing and has cut off electricity, water and food going into the Gaza Strip.
Even against the history of the conflict ridden Middle East, the atrocities we've seen are beyond appalling. The coming days are unpredictable and alarming.
In this podcast, expert on the Middle East and former Australian ambassador to Lebanon Ian Parmeter joins The Conversation to analyse the conflict so far; explaining its background and ramifications.
The federal government last week released the report of the Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability, which painted a confronting picture and recorded the calls of disabled people “for a more inclusive Australia”.
The commission made more than 220 recommendations, and was conducted at a cost to the taxpayer of $600 million. But commissioners split on the key issues of special schools and group housing for people with disabilities, causing immediate controversy.
In this podcast, the Greens spokesman on disability, Jordon Steele-John, who campaigned for the royal commission, joins The Conversation to discuss the report, and also to canvass the NDIS, which is under review in another inquiry.
Treasurer Jim Chalmers released his White Paper on employment this week. Its aim is for everyone who wants a job to be able to get one without having to search for too long. The paper says that a surprisingly large number of people are looking for work or for more hours of work, some three million, and that’s when unemployment is at a low 3.7% and we have labour shortages in multiple sectors.
In this podcast, Chalmers also canvasses inflation, migration, the cost of living pressures on households and concerns about China’s economy.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics editor Amanda Dunn discuss Victorian premier Daniel Andrews’ exit, as well as the revelation of extraordinary texts from leading public servant Mike Pezzullo promoting his views to the Coalition government through a Liberal insider.
They also canvass the Senate inquiry into the Qatar Airways saga, with Qantas chairman Richard Goyder and its new CEO Vanessa Hudson given a very hard time by committee members at a hearing on Wednesday.
Australia’s higher education sector is under heavy scrutiny. Still recovering from the impact of COVID and criticised for its treatment of staff, it faces strong pressures to step up its performance.
The government launched a broad review of the sector in late 2022 to inform a Universities Accord. The interim report was released in July, with the full report coming in December. Professor Brian Schmidt, is one of Australia’s most eminent academics, an astrophysicist who shared a Nobel Prize in 2011. Schmidt has been Vice-Chancellor at the Australian National University since 2016, a role he leaves at the end of the year.
Anthony Albanese has now confirmed he’ll be heading to China before the end of the year. He is the first Australian prime minister to visit since 2016, and it is the culmination of an improvement in China-Australia relations since the change of government.
In this podcast, we’re joined by Richard McGregor, an expert on China and senior fellow at the Lowy Institute.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss the latest national accounts and Jim Chalmers’ announcement that Grattan Institute CEO Danielle Wood will take over as head of the Productivity Commission. The appointment came as a surprise, after Chris Barrett, chosen for the position only recently, decided he had a better offer – he will become head of the Victorian Treasury.
They also canvass the QANTAS saga, which has seen its now former CEO Alan Joyce step down earlier than scheduled. The news came amid public anger over its poor customer service, and after the national carrier was taken to court by the consumer watchdog for selling more than 8000 tickets on flights already cancelled.
And finally, they discuss Anthony Albanese’s trip to Indonesia for the ASEAN summit, followed by a visit to the Philippines, before he attends the G20 meeting in India.
October 14, is the day Australians will head to their polling booths to vote for or against an Indigenous Voice being enshrined in the Constitution.
Anthony Albanese announced the date in a speech in Adelaide on Wednesday, as politicians across the spectrum and Indigenous “yes” campaign leaders rallied around the country.
In this podcast, we are joined by the campaign director for Yes23, Dean Parkin, and former deputy prime minister John Anderson, who sits on the no campaign’s advisory board. We spoke with each of them on the eve of Albanese’s announcement.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss the news that the Prime Minister next Wednesday will reveal the date for the Voice referendum. They also canvass the Intergenerational Report, which gazes into the 2060s, as well as Labor's national conference, that endorsed AUKUS. During the conference Anthony Albanese emphasised the importance of the party staying in office to bed down a long term agenda, with the message to the rank and file not to rock the boat.
Richard Wainwright/AAPLabor this week had its first face-to-face national conference in five years, and it all went Anthony Albanese’s way. He won on AUKUS and rallied the party faithful, who did not rock the government’s boat.
For this podcast we caught up with the new Western Australian Premier Roger Cook on the sidelines of the conference, and canvassed a range of issues, including his recent backdown on the state’s cultural heritage law.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Next week the Labor Party will hold its national conference in Brisbane. It’s the first face-to-face conference in five years. These conferences don’t have anything like the bite they once did, but there’s still a chance for the party’s rank and file to have a shout about issues. More than 400 delegates will be there. Most of the delegates are aligned to a faction, and for the first time in decades the left will have the largest slice of the numbers.
AUKUS and the Stage 3 tax cuts are expected to be among the hot topics, but the conference will be carefully managed – there will be no defeats for Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. Ahead of the conference, we have already seen the government change its stance on Palestine, a sensitive subject among the left and right factions of the party.
In this podcast we talk with Wayne Swan, the Labor Party National President. Swan was treasurer and deputy prime minister in the Rudd and Gillard governments.
Lukas Coch/AAPNext week the Labor Party will hold its national conference in Brisbane. It’s the first face-to-face conference in five years. These conferences don’t have anything like the bite they once did, but there’s still a chance for the party’s rank and file to have a shout about issues. More than 400 delegates will be there. Most of the delegates are aligned to a faction, and for the first time in decades the left will have the largest slice of the numbers.
AUKUS and the Stage 3 tax cuts are expected to be among the hot topics, but the conference will be carefully managed – there will be no defeats for Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. Ahead of the conference, we have already seen the government change its stance on Palestine, a sensitive subject among the left and right factions of the party.
In this podcast we talk with Wayne Swan, the Labor Party National President. Swan was treasurer and deputy prime minister in the Rudd and Gillard governments.
National conferences have “enormous power” Swan claims, denying they have lost clout, and casting the conference as more of a “partnership” between the party and the parliamentary caucus:
Of course the parliamentary caucus does operate within the confines of the platform. And on one or two occasions in history there have been fundamental conflicts between the two. But for most of our history, Labor parliamentary caucuses, Labor prime ministers, Labor leaders of the opposition have worked within the confines of the platform and that’s where we are today.
Recently, Labor assistant minister Andrew Leigh strongly criticised the stranglehold the factions have on the party. Swan is in complete disagreement with Leigh:
It’s true to say that people mix and vote differently on different issues from different backgrounds at different times, which doesn’t always coincide with the story that Andrew tells in his recent essay. The factions are nowhere near as monolithic as Andrew presents them, and many more people get involved in the party who don’t come from the sort of backgrounds that you would imagine if it was just two big monolithic groupings. Our party is very much representative of the general community.
Yes, factions are organising groupings in the party, but they are much more diverse and free flowing then the presentations Andrew [presented] to people.
On the conference issues, Swan says:
I certainly think there’ll be a debate over AUKUS and I hope there is. As we’ve been through the history of this party - it’s 132 years [old] - national defence has always loomed large in our party conferences. Indeed the party split during the First World War over these sorts of issues.
People are passionate about the very big issues. That’s why the Labor Party has been around so long and why it’s the oldest social democratic labour party in the world.
Swan as treasurer went through the global financial crisis, when Australia managed to avoid a recession. Swan’s former chief of staff, Jim Chalmers, is now in the economic hot seat. Swan believes Australians now are much more accepting of government intervention, using COVID as an example:
One of the great differences between my period and Jim’s period is that the inadequacies of trickle down economics and the use of fiscal policy not only to promote growth but to promote equity is now much more strongly supported in our community than it was when I was last treasurer, simply because it was demonstrated through COVID in particular.
The intervention by government to massively support the economy and to produce social and to, if you like, produce desired social and economic outcomes was entirely legitimate.
One of the reasons the Liberal Party is floundering so much is that it’s in denial about this one important fact about our nation, that government must always intervene to protect people, to protect their jobs, and to distribute income throughout an economy, particularly when an economy is under threat from something like COVID or an international recession. During the GFC, we did precisely that. We were opposed all the way by the conservatives, they were forced to take similar steps during COVID, and now it is much more established that government has a fundamental role in intervening in the economy to protect people, to deal with insecurity and inequality.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss the announcement from Western Australian Premier Roger Cook that a controversial cultural heritage law would be overturned, with the former legislation reinstated with amendments. The law was put in place after mining giant Rio Tinto blew up the Juukan Gorge, a sacred place for First Australians.
They also canvass the government’s continuing problems in the Voice campaign, and the fallout from the inquiry into the handling of the Bruce Lehrmann case. In a bizarre twist, the former judge who did the investigation is now in trouble with the ACT government, who appointed him.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss whether there’s much in the PM’s double dissolution threat, and his defensiveness when pressed on Treaty in an ABC interview.
As well, they canvass the Reserve Bank’s reprieve for mortgage holders, which will be only small comfort to those coming off fixed rates. Meanwhile in parliament, Scott Morrison’s rejection of the Robodebt royal commission’s findings against him just sparked fresh attacks on him from the government.
The Garma Festival is being held over the next few days in Arnhem Land. There will be a great deal of talk this year about the Voice. Anthony Albanese will speak on Saturday, but he won’t announce the date for the referendum. Peter Dutton isn’t attending.
Meanwhile in parliament this week the opposition has sought to turn the discussion of the Voice to the issue of treaty, also a feature of the Uluru Statement from the Heart. But the government wants to keep the debate strictly to the Voice, dodging questions about treaty where it can.
In this podcast Thomas Mayo, a signatory of the Uluru Statement and one of the leaders of the yes campaign, and Derryn Hinch, former prominent broadcaster and a former crossbench senator, join us to argue for the yes and no sides respectively.
Australia’s inflation moderated somewhat this week. But in economic terms, there will be more tough months ahead for households and for businesses.
Meanwhile, the relationship between business and the Albanese government is somewhat scratchy. From the point of view of business, the Government is delivering to the unions. Business is particularly critical of the Government’s industrial relations changes those already made and those to come.
In this weeks podcast, our guest is Andrew McKellar, the chief executive of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (ACCI). He joins us to give a business take on the economy, issues concerning business and relations with the Albanese Government.
ACCI describes itself as Australia’s largest and most representative business network, saying it covers businesses “of all shapes and sizes”.
Martin Ollman/AAPAustralia’s inflation moderated somewhat this week. But in economic terms, there will be more tough months ahead for households and for businesses.
Meanwhile, the relationship between business and the Albanese government is somewhat scratchy. From the point of view of business, the Government is delivering to the unions. Business is particularly critical of the Government’s industrial relations changes those already made and those to come.
In this weeks podcast, our guest is Andrew McKellar, the chief executive of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (ACCI). He joins us to give a business take on the economy, issues concerning business and relations with the Albanese Government.
ACCI describes itself as Australia’s largest and most representative business network, saying it covers businesses “of all shapes and sizes”.
With the news that Australia is finally seeing inflation fall, McKellar believes that further interest rate rises could do more harm to the economy than good.
it’s not clear that further interest rate increases at this point in time are really going to help. In fact, they could risk going the other way.
This week workplace relations minister Tony Burke announced new changes to casual employment laws, to make it easier for casuals to become permanent employees. Business has reacted sharply. McKellar says:
Firstly, there is already a pathway for conversion from casual to permanent employment, if that’s what suits the employee and what suits the business. We think there is an issue around the change in the test to that, and particularly the uncertainty that that can create for smaller businesses.
So whether it be on labour hire, service, contracting, the ability for companies, for employers to engage labour in those circumstances […] There’s a broad range of concerns that business has and we’re obviously trying to work through those issues with government behind the scenes.
Treasurer Jim Chalmers announced the new head of the Productivity Commission this week, appointing Chris Barrett from the Victorian Department of Finance and Treasury to the role. Australia’s productivity growth per annum is at its worst in 60 years, and McKellar believes Barrett has a mammoth task ahead of him:
I think we’ve seen a period where there hasn’t been a strong reform agenda. This government has to make a choice. It can make a difference. When you look back at some of the positive things that have been done by governments of either persuasion in the past, whether it be Hawke and Keating, whether it be Howard and Costello, then I think having that strong impartial advice, looking at taking on some of those challenges, making some unpopular decisions at times, but trying to build a consensus around what will drive productivity growth [and] that’s sorely needed in Australian public policy.
With the sweeping industrial relations changes being implemented by the government, McKellar says business, big and small, needs to be measured:
We don’t want to diminish our credibility as business advocates by ‘overegging the omelette’ - and we’ve got to be careful on that point.
But where we see risks and where we see things that are taking us potentially in the wrong direction on policy, then I think it’s quite legitimate to have that debate in a pretty robust way, and I don’t think anyone’s shying away from that.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
The Voice to Parliament reached another milestone this week, with the official essays for the Yes and No cases published online by the Australian Electoral Commission. These will be sent to all Australian electors in the lead up to the vote, which will be in the last quarter of the year
In recent weeks, polls have suggested the “yes” vote is on the slide, and has an uphill battle if it is to be successful.
In this podcast, we talk with two Indigenous senators, The Greens’ Dorinda Cox, and Liberal Kerrynne Liddle. Cox is campaigning for the Voice, while Liddle does not believe a Voice will achieve the practical outcomes those in favour are championing.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss Premier Dan Andrews’ surprise decision to pull Victoria out of hosting the 2026 Commonwealth Games. They also canvass the official yes and no cases issued this week for the Voice referendum, and Labor frontbencher Andrew Leigh’s strong speech warning of the excessive level of factional control within the Labor Party.
For months, speculation has swirled about the appointment of a new governor of the Reserve Bank, a key position in the management of the Australian economy.
The present governor, Philip Lowe, has faced sharp criticism, especially over his prediction interest rates would be held steady until 2024, which proved wrong. It always seemed unlikely he would get another term.
Now the government has named his successor – the present deputy governor Michele Bullock. She will be the first woman to hold the position.
From the government’s point of view, it is a cautious appointment, signalling both continuity and change. Bullock is of the bank, but she will oversee the reforms that have come out of the review of its operations.
The Robodebt royal commission’s report has excoriated a raft of former ministers, especially Scott Morrison, who was a main instigator of the program, as well as public servants who were involved.
What we don’t know is who has been referred for prosecution or other action, because the names are in a sealed section of the report.
When in opposition, Bill Shorten pursued the scandal, mobilising a class action. Now Shorten is Minister for Government Services, overseeing a department that in an earlier iteration was at the centre of Robodebt. He’s also Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme.
In this podcast, Shorten joins The Conversation to discuss the aftermath of the royal commission report, and progress in reforming the NDIS.
Next year’s American presidential election is shaping up to be extraordinary. Donald Trump is favoured to be the Republican candidate, despite facing multiple charges over removing classified documents. President Joe Biden has indicated he intends to run again, despite the fact he’ll be 82 at the time of the poll and 86 if he completed another four-year term.
In this podcast, author Bruce Wolpe - a senior fellow at the United States Centre at the University of Sydney, who previously worked with the Democratic Party in Congress, discusses his new book “Trump’s Australia”. Wolpe argues a second Trump term would have shocking consequences for Australia.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss the free-for-all between Coalition, government and Greens in the final sitting fortnight before the winter break.
The Coalition’s offensive on Katy Gallagher over the Higgins saga backfired when Liberal Senator David Van was accused of inappropriate behaviour and kicked out of the Liberal party room (he later quit the party).
The government announced an extra $2 billion for social and affordable housing, hoping to win Greens’ support for its $10 billion signature Housing Australia Future Fund. To the government’s fury, the Greens held out, leading to angry accusations between Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Greens spokesman Max Chandler-Mather.
The politicians are now returning to their electorates, where they are likely to face plenty of talk from constituents about those rising power prices and other bills.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
The next federal election could be conducted under dramatically reformed electoral laws, with caps on spending and donations, and a much lower disclosure threshold for the disclosure of donations.
The changes, being worked up by Special Minister Don Farrell, would also trim the wings of third parties, such as Simon Holmes à Court’s Climate 200.
Farrell tells The Conversation’s Politics Podcast he is not waiting for the final report of the parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, which in its interim report has recommended a set of reforms broadly in line with Labor policy. The report was tabled on Monday.
Farrell says waiting until the final report comes at the end of the year would make it harder to get legislation in place for the next election, due by May 2025. He will have negotiations over the coming months and wants as much bipartisanship as possible, despite the Coalition opposing key recommendations of the majority report.
Florence Lo/AAPThe next federal election could be conducted under dramatically reformed electoral laws, with caps on spending and donations, and a much lower disclosure threshold for the disclosure of donations.
The changes, being worked up by Special Minister Don Farrell, would also trim the wings of third parties, such as Simon Holmes à Court’s Climate 200.
Farrell tells The Conversation’s Politics Podcast he is not waiting for the final report of the parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, which in its interim report has recommended a set of reforms broadly in line with Labor policy. The report was tabled on Monday.
Farrell says waiting until the final report comes at the end of the year would make it harder to get legislation in place for the next election, due by May 2025. He will have negotiations over the coming months and wants as much bipartisanship as possible, despite the Coalition opposing key recommendations of the majority report.
The government’s reform package would drastically reduce the threshold for donation disclosure, from the current $15,200 to $1000, and provide for disclosure in “real time”.
On spending caps, Farrell says: “The Australian electoral system shouldn’t be just open to people with lots of money”, citing Clive Palmer’s huge spend of $117 million at the last election.
He’s hoping for “broad consensus” across parties “that we’ve got to do something to firstly restrict the amount of money that individuals can spend, but also ensure that combination of transparency, so that ordinary people can run campaigns”.
“The expenditure by wealthy people to essentially buy election results is now completely out of control and we’ve got to do something about it.”
Farrell says caps should apply to third parties because “it’s got to be a level playing field”. There has to be as “balance” – increasing transparency, restricting the ability of rich people to buy elections, and improving access to democracy.
“My job in the next six months before the final report [from the committee] will be to try and find that balance.”
Ambitiously, Farrell says: “I’d like to see a consensus outcome before the end of the year, and that implemented either this year or early next year so that the Australian Electoral Commission has got plenty of time to implement whatever we agree upon.”
He said a provision for truth in advertising, also recommended by the committee, would be in the government’s package “if we can get consensus on it in the lead up to the next election”.
Farrell hopes the date for the Voice referendum – which Anthony Albanese has said will be in the last quarter of the year – is sooner rather than later, because of the weather in the north in the latter months of the year. The speculation is that the vote will be in October.
“Look, it’s a challenge in every election getting into Indigenous communities and of course the later in the year that you go, then the more difficult it can be with storms and so forth [in the north of Australia] and of course that’s where large numbers of Indigenous Australians live.”
“I’m pleased to report that since this government came to office, we’ve lifted Indigenous enrolment from roughly 81% that it was at the time of the last election up to 84½%, and we’re expecting to get some more figures next month, which I’m confident will show an even greater participation. (At the next federal election more than 98% of the eligible general population will be on the roll.)
Farrell has made it easier for Indigenous people to enrol by allowing a Medicare card to be used as identification. "It’s a challenge but I think we have to devote more resources to getting more Indigenous Australians on the roll and I think you’ll find more Indigenous Australians will vote on this issue in the referendum.”
This week Farrell warned that the government’s legislation for its $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund, deferred by the Greens and the Coalition until mid October, could be on the way to qualify as double dissolution legislation.
He tells the podcast: “Look, I’m not advocating a double dissolution. What I am advocating is for the Greens political party to come to their senses.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
For most voters, the cost of living is their major current concern. Rising interest rates and high prices for power, groceries and other necessities are hurting in particular lower and middle income people.
Nowhere is this more the case than in Sydney’s western suburbs.
Independent Dai Le, who holds the seat of Fowler in Sydney’s west, managed to pull off the unthinkable at last year’s federal election. Le, who financed her campaign with a very modest budget, defeated Labor’s Kristina Keneally, who was attempting to move from the Senate to the lower house.
Fowler has traditionally been Labor heartland. Le is the first non-Labor MP to represent the area, one of Australia’s most multicultural electorates.
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss the opposition’s attack on Finance Minister Katy Gallagher for allegedly misleading parliament in 2021 about what she knew of Brittany Higgins’ rape allegation.
They also canvass the recent poll showing support for the Voice has fallen below a majority for the first time, with Indigenous leader Noel Pearson calling for a shift in the presentation of the “yes” side, towards the recognition side of the debate.
As well, they discuss the government’s Housing Australia Future Fund, which has stalled in the Senate – will there be a compromise, or a defeat for the legislation next week?
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Artificial intelligence is a challenging policy area that’s moving towards the centre stage of public and government attention. Some experts emphasise the immense potential of AI, while others are deeply troubled about the ramifications the technology may have on humans.
AI has the potential to open up employment opportunities, but also to replace many jobs.
The Albanese government has recently begun consultations as it formulates a policy for seeking to ensure AI technology is both safe and responsible.
In this podcast, Ed Husic, the minister for industry and science, who is overseeing the AI policy development process, joins us to talk about this new frontier.
The Coalition’s decision to oppose the Voice to Parliament has put its moderate members in a jam. Some moderates are active yes advocates, while others are trying to keep low profiles.
Bridget Archer, the outspoken Liberal MP for Bass, is a vocal yes campaigner. More generally, she is also taking a lead in urging the Liberal party to undertake root-and-branch reform.
Archer is pushing for extensive change in a party that is electorally on the ropes, out of office everywhere except her home state of Tasmania.
Since entering parliament in 2019, Archer has crossed the floor on 27 occasion to vote against her party. She admits there are those colleagues who avoid her, but says her decisions are always based on what is in the best interest of her community, and argues the strength of the Liberal Party historically has been for members to be able to sometimes disagree and to do so respectfully.
Mick Tsikas/AAPThe Coalition’s decision to oppose the Voice to Parliament has put its moderate members in a jam. Some moderates are active yes advocates, while others are trying to keep low profiles.
Bridget Archer, the outspoken Liberal MP for Bass, is a vocal yes campaigner. More generally, she is also taking a lead in urging the Liberal party to undertake root-and-branch reform.
Archer is pushing for extensive change in a party that is electorally on the ropes, out of office everywhere except her home state of Tasmania.
Since entering parliament in 2019, Archer has crossed the floor on 27 occasion to vote against her party. She admits there are those colleagues who avoid her, but says her decisions are always based on what is in the best interest of her community, and argues the strength of the Liberal Party historically has been for members to be able to sometimes disagree and to do so respectfully.
Her independent stance on a range of issues has brought varied feedback from her local community. “It’s mixed, but generally positive. If I get negative feedback, it is sometimes from Liberal Party members or conservative voters that say ‘I think that you should toe the line’ – there’s this idea that if you have a divergent view, that you’re not a team player.”
But Archer believes “it is possible to be part of a team and to have differences of opinion (sometimes), and that it’s my job to represent to the best of my ability everybody in the electorate, even the people who don’t or didn’t vote for you, I guess.”
In a recent Good Weekend profile Archer called for a “revolution” in the Liberal Party, claiming it is currently “unelectable”. She tells the podcast: “I think this was again borne out in the 2022 election with the rise of community independents […] where people, particularly in some of those metropolitan seats, are not feeling that the party is representing their views anymore […] In regional areas that is not necessarily the case. And we’ve seen with the Coalition, of course, the Nationals holding the seats that they had.
"The great challenge for us is to get back to what I think was the strength of the Liberal Party at one stage, which is the ability to speak across the country, to talk to middle Australia.
"And I think that we’ve lost our way in that.”
Archer also argues Liberal Party values need to shift with the times, particularly its ideology on “the family and home ownership”.
“We have historically talked a lot about home ownership, but we don’t focus so much on rental affordability. […] It’s front of mind for many people in those metropolitan areas and for younger people as well, who have also deserted us in droves.”
The moderates in the party were decimated at the 2022 election. It has left the moderate faction in tatters, and Archer often finds herself isolated when she speaks out against the party line.
“I think it’s a bit frustrating for me sometimes that I feel that I know that there are other people who share my views on some things, but they don’t speak up, which I think sometimes does leave me sort of hanging there as this rogue person when I know that that’s not necessarily the case.”
“I also think it really goes to the heart of some of the reasons why those colleagues did lose their seats at the last election and why we have seen a rise of the teals. In those seats, in many cases people were wanting to vote for Liberals, and they were looking around [to] have a reason to vote for Liberals and they were coming up empty handed.”
Asked if she thought the party was “walking off a cliff,” she doesn’t hesitate.
“Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
The federal budget gave a much-needed, but very modest, increase to those on JobSeeker and associated payments. However, it didn’t address that other important issue of the unemployed: how to help as many JobSeekers as possible to get into work, whether full- or part-time.
This will be canvassed in the government’s coming white paper on employment. It’s already, however, before a parliamentary inquiry into employment services.
In this podcast, Julian Hill, the Labor member for Bruce, who chairs that inquiry, joins us to discuss the job market and getting people into work. Hill has also been actively working for Julian Assange’s release from London’s maximum-security Belmarsh Prison.
And he boasts a huge following on TikTok, the Chinese-owned social media platform, which is banned on official government devices.
The government’s planned Housing Australia Future Fund has hit a roadblock.
Legislation for the $10 billion fund – the returns on which would be used to build social and affordable housing – is being blocked by an unusual alliance of the Coalition and the Greens.
Max Chandler-Mather, who won the seat of Griffith in Brisbane from Labor’s Terri Butler, has been under personal attack by the government. Labor leader in the Senate Penny Wong accused him of ego-stroking, and the prime minister suggested he was hypocritical for wanting more social housing while opposing a developments in his electorate.
Why is a party that has championed more social and affordable housing opposing an initiative to get more housing into the market?
In this podcast, Chandler-Mather says: “Our criticisms are twofold"
Will the budget make inflation worse? Are its boosts to welfare payments just the first step for the Labor government? Could the projected one-off surplus be followed by another one or more? What (if any) of the budget measures will the Coalition oppose? There’s quite a bit about this budget that, as the saying goes, “only time will tell”.
In this podcast, Treasurer Jim Chalmers defends his budget from those economists who claim it will be inflationary, and strongly rejects suggestions it doesn’t have much for middle income Australians struggling with rising mortgage payments. Chalmers also promises that, given the current tight labour market, a priority in coming months will be finding ways to help more of the long-term unemployed into jobs.
Shadow treasurer Angus Taylor lists some of the measures the opposition supports but will not commit on the changes to the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax, despite the sector’s benign attitude to the cautious revamp.
The federal government is trying to contain the exploding cost of the landmark National Disability Insurance Scheme – especially difficult given the fears of vulnerable people who rely on it.
National cabinet’s decision last week to aim to reduce the cost increase from the current 14% annually down to 8% by 2026 received a sharp reaction from disability advocates. This financial year the NDIS will cost more than $35 billion, two thirds paid by the federal government.
The government has flagged areas for change and there is also a review being done.
In this podcast, former Paralympian Kurt Fearnley, chair of the National Disability Insurance Authority, which implements the scheme, discusses its issues and the road ahead.
With the Liberal Party formally opposing the Voice, Peter Dutton last week kicked off his “no” campaign in Alice Springs. His claim that child sexual abuse is rife was quickly under attack from the government and others who accused him of politicking, using the issue as a political football.
Marion Scrymgour, a former deputy chief minister in the Northern Territory, is the federal Labor member for the seat of Lingiari, an electorate covering almost all the NT outside Darwin.
Scrymgour says Dutton is taking up the same theme as was heard in the Northern Territory intervention. “The same campaign that was done to justify the intervention is the same campaign that’s been happening with the Leader of the Opposition.
Professor Marcia Langton holds the Foundation Chair of Australian Indigenous Studies at the University of Melbourne, and was co-author (with Professor Tom Calma) of the Indigenous Voice Co-design Process report to the Morrison government. She has been a fighter for rights and progress for Indigenous Australians for decades, and she’s one of those at the centre of the yes campaign for the Voice. Her own voice is always forthright and formidable.
Langton admits she isn’t “entirely confident” where the referendum stands at the moment but is more positive as the debate continues. “I’ve been gauging the response of the general public by reading a lot and having a look at the social media, and I think most people can see that this is a very simple and modest proposition and that it will make a difference. And what I’m seeing more and more is most people realising, yes, well, why don’t Indigenous people have a say about policies and the laws that affect them?
"They realise when they think about it that this has gone on for too long, where all of these laws and policies that seem to be universally ineffective in closing the gap, and causing more suffering, have been imposed on us by non-Indigenous people. […] I think most people are still very embarrassed about the Northern Territory intervention initiated by John Howard.”
The Liberals have formally decided to oppose the Voice. Peter Dutton has declared he will campaign against it, a high risk strategy when polls are showing a majority of Australians currently support a “yes” vote.
Noel Pearson was scathing of the Liberal Party, calling the decision not to support the Voice “a Judas betrayal of our country”. Moderate Liberal MP Bridget Archer will campaign for the “yes” case.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan and Senator Simon Birmingham, leader of the opposition in the senate, and one of the few remaining moderates in the party, discuss the Voice, the Aston byelection defeat and “where to now?” for the Liberal Party.
Senator Lidia Thorpe’s defection from the Greens changed the power dynamic in the Senate. Now the government needs two crossbenchers (and the Greens) to pass legislation opposed by the Coalition. Tasmanian Senator Jacqui Lambie and her colleague Tammy Tyrrell can provide those two votes, which puts them in a potentially strong bargaining position.
Lambie has never been afraid to call things how she see’s them. She recently visited Alice Springs and urged the situation needed some “tough love”.
In this podcast Lambie urges a return to the old Community Development Employment Projects program for Indigenous communities. Under the CDEP people exchanged unemployment benefits for work and training managed by a local Indigenous community organisations. “I don’t know how many of these places I’ve visited in the Indigenous communities over the last nine years where they just so much praise that old jobs program.”
The Productivity Commission’s nine-volume report has a tough central message. It says productivity policy has to focus on the areas that have proven the hardest in the past, rather than those where previously progress has been most readily achieved.
One key take from the report is that Australia is performing poorly in growing its productivity.
The commission makes recommendations across the policy spectrum, from education and health through workplace relations and migration to data and technology.
It points to the difficulty of improving productivity in the public sector, and more generally to the complexities, now that we have become predominantly a services economy.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan discusses the blueprint for reform with commission chair, Michael Brennan.
Voters in New South Wales are heading to the polling booths on March 25. For both Premier Dominic Perrottet and Labor leader Chris Minns, it is their first election as leader. The Coalition government has held power since 2011. Labor needs to gain a net nine seats to form majority government. If Labor wins, the party will be in power in every state and territory except Tasmania.
There are 10 seats in this election that are on a margin of less than 6%, including Minns’ seat of Kogarah on 0.1%. In several contests the fate of “teal’ candidates will be watched. Spending and donation caps, and optional preferential voting make the teals’ path to victory more difficult than in the federal election.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan speaks with Antony Green, the ABC’s election analyst, Professor Andy Marks, from the University of Western Sydney, and Ashleigh Raper, the ABC’s NSW state political reporter.
Treasurer Jim Chalmers sparked a political row when he announced a tax hike on superannuation concessions for accounts with balances over $3 million, from 15% to 30%, to begin in 2025. Polling indicates the move has broad support from the public, although any change to super is always controversial. Opposition leader Peter Dutton has promised the change would be reversed by a Coalition government.
Mike Callaghan, a former treasury official, chaired the Retirement Income Review that was handed to the Morrison government in 2020.
Callaghan sees the Chalmers’ change to super as “an important step”.
Adam Bandt aspired to power-sharing with a Labor government. That was never going to happen but, possessing the major slice of the balance of power in the Senate, the Greens have considerable potential muscle – at least in theory.
In this podcast, we get a glimpse of the gap between Greens leader Adam Bandt’s aspiration for ambitious reforms and the reality that the government is only giving concessions at the edges to the minor party.
“There’s a capacity for this to be a golden era of reform in this parliament,” Bandt says.
“For us to pass laws that tackle the climate crisis and to protect the environment. That tackle the cost of living crisis.
Frank Brennan has been involved over decades in the big debates in Indigenous affairs. A Jesuit priest and an academic expert on the constitution, Brennan has advocated for recognising First Nations peoples in that document.
But he has concerns about the breadth of Anthony Albanese’s proposed referendum question, arguing its reference to the Voice making representations to executive government raises the prospect of many legal challenges. This issue of the potential for legal challenges is one that divides legal experts, with a number of authorities maintaining there is no problem.
In this podcast, Brennan elaborates on why he believes the referendum question should be reworded and the form he thinks the question should take.
Kate Chaney was one of half a dozen new “teal” MPs elected to parliament last year, winning the previously solid Liberal seat of Curtin in Western Australia.
“It’s been a fascinating and steep learning curve over the last eight months,” Chaney tells the podcast. “As a crossbencher, you really have to think very carefully about how you vote on every piece of legislation and try as much as possible to connect with community and ensure that those votes are informed by community.”
Against the background of the stoush between fellow teal Monique Ryan and a staffer over long hours, Chaney says the workload is massive. “It’s definitely challenging trying to get across all of the legislation with only one personal staff member [working on legislation]. I do think that challenge is quite different to the work of a backbencher in a party. I have been very lucky to find [staff] who are passionately engaged and have experience that has made them very well-suited for the job while still bringing a freshness to it.”
In this podcast, Michelle talks with Malarndirri McCarthy, Labor senator for the Northern Territory and Assistant Minister for Indigenous Australians. McCarthy is a former journalist and also served in the territory parliament, including as minister for children and families.
Treasurer Jim Chalmers has rejected as “laughable” criticism he has turned his back on the Hawke-Keating reform era in his blueprint for “values-based capitalism”.
In this podcast Chalmers also reveals he spoke with Paul Keating while writing of the essay, published in The Monthly.
“Capitalism after the crises” looks at Australia’s future following three international crises: the GFC, the pandemic, and the current energy and inflation shock. Chalmers advocates government-private co-investment, the renovation of the Reserve Bank and the Productivity Commission, and improving the functioning of markets.
Critics have labelled his values-based capitalism highly intervention, and counter to the direction of the reforms Bob Hawke and Keating implemented.
In this, our last podcast for 2022, we talk with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Opposition Leader Peter Dutton. We spoke to each of them on the day the parliament was back to pass the energy package.
Albanese, who met Chinese President Xi Jinping during the recent summit season, reveals he anticipates a further positive development in China's relationship with Australia within weeks.
Asked whether he expected some relaxation of China's trade restrictions on Australia any time soon, he said: "I'm hopeful that any of the barriers to normal economic activity are removed and that we have stronger economic relations.
"China is our major economic partner and I think in coming weeks you will see further measures and activities which indicate a much improved relationship, which is in the interests of both of our countries, but importantly as well is in the interests of peace and security in the region."
Australians are currently confronting a cost of living crisis that includes soaring energy prices. Ministers have been working for weeks on a strategy to contain the prices of coal and gas, driven up by the fallout from the Ukraine war.
It’s the toughest, most complicated policy issue so far faced by Anthony Albanese, and it’s involved some head-butting with the NSW and Queensland governments.
In this podcast, we talk with Professor Bruce Mountain, Director of the Victoria Energy Policy Centre at Victoria University, about this energy policy conundrum, and the attempt to deal with it by price caps.
Mountain says: “One of the great difficulties in capping wholesale coal or gas prices is there’s no guarantee that that will impact the price of electricity. There’s a long chain to be followed between a wholesale cap on coal or gas and the price that the customer pays.”
Lukas Coch/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass federal parliament’s final sitting week of the year, including the House of Representatives’ censure of Scott Morrison, and the flurry of legislation.
Meanwhile the Nationals have sparked renewed argument about next year’s Voice referendum, and the Liberals’ trouncing in Victoria at the weekend is reigniting that party’s soul-searching about its future.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Six months after Scott Morrison was ousted, he remains a centre of attention, with parliament set to censure him on Wednesday over his multi-ministry power grab.
In exquisite timing, journalist Niki Savva’s book Bulldozed is released this week. It documents Morrison’s style, which eventually shocked even those closest to him in government.
“He’s a very secretive character. He’s distrustful. He’s a control freak. He’s a bully. He’s stubborn. He doesn’t listen to anyone,” Savva says. “And he was, as Alex Hawke [former minister and a Morrison numbers man] has said on the record, addicted to executive authority. He liked to be in absolute control, taking every decision but not taking responsibility for every decision.”
Savva says Hawke believed Morrison was frightened of a leadership challenge. “Alex Hawke […] believed Morrison was panic stricken by the thought that both left and right were out to get him. And although he was worried about Frydenberg, he was more worried about Dutton. He thought that there would be a move initiated by Frydenberg and then Dutton would come through the middle.”
The Australian National University Dictionary Centre has just announced its word of the year is “teal”.
Senior researcher Mark Gwynn described it as an “easy choice”. “The colour came to represent a movement of independent and strong female voices taking on the establishment.”
Monique Ryan, the member for the Melbourne seat of Kooyong, is the giant slayer of the movement, having defeated former treasurer Josh Frydenberg.
“It’s fascinating that the now the word ‘teals’ is now a noun that everyone recognises,” she says. “That was not the case a year ago.
Lukas Coch/AAPThe Australian National University Dictionary Centre has just announced its word of the year is “teal”.
Senior researcher Mark Gwynn described it as an “easy choice”. “The colour came to represent a movement of independent and strong female voices taking on the establishment.”
Monique Ryan, the member for the Melbourne seat of Kooyong, is the giant slayer of the movement, having defeated former treasurer Josh Frydenberg.
“It’s fascinating that the now the word ‘teals’ is now a noun that everyone recognises,” she says. “That was not the case a year ago.
"I think that many communities across Australia have been really fulfilled and have been empowered by what’s happened in Australian politics in the last year.
"I don’t believe that the community independent movement will go away any time soon, And I think it’s going to be really fascinating to see what happens in the next two or three elections.”
Only a handful of teals are contesting Saturday’s Victorian election. Two are in seats within Ryan’s Kooyong electorate.
“What’s happening in Kew is fascinating,” Ryan says. “We have [Liberal] Tim Smith who’s kind of had to leave parliament under a cloud, and the election there really I think will be fought out between his anointed successor, Jess Wilson [and] Sophie Torney. [Sophie] is an independent who has been a member of that community for a long, long time, has small business experience and is well-known within Kew.”
“In Hawthorn, the sitting member is John Kennedy, who’s the Labor member. Then we have John Pesutto, former [Liberal] attorney-general, and Melissa Lowe, who’s the independent candidate. I think many people have looked to John Pesutto as a potential leader of the Liberal Party in Victoria but he’s still under a bit of a cloud. Before the last election there was disenchantment with him in Hawthorn because he supported Matthew Guy on the African gangs issue.”
Just-released election funding figures showed Ryan was one of the biggest recipients and spenders in the May election. “I celebrated the fact that I had 3762 independent single donations, individual donations to my campaign. That is extraordinary and doesn’t take into account the 11,200 people who donated to Climate 200. I challenge anyone to find more individual donors to a political campaign in Australia and I’m not embarrassed about that.”
She wants more transparency in the way that election campaigns are funded. “It’s crazy that we have to spend so much money in order to have any sort of degree of parity to try and even things up at all […] I’m fully in favour of electoral reform to cut the amount of money that is spent on elections, but it has to be done in a way that is fair.”
Asked about her first six months in parliament, Ryan says she has “loved every minute (almost) […] What stood out is how busy it is. I hadn’t probably appreciated before I came here the extent to which you have two full-time roles when you’re a parliamentarian, and for me, the electorate side of things is incredibly engaging and it’s a very busy job. [The second part is] coming to Canberra and having a presence and an influence at a national level, and I think I and the other independents have been able to do that” although they have not had the balance of power in the House of Representatives.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the final sitting weeks of parliament, in which the government is battling with crossbencher David Pocock to secure its industrial relations reforms. They also discuss the Victorian election, where much attention will be on how teals and other community independents fare. Finally, this week the government receives the report, from former high court judge Virginia Bell, on Scott Morrison’s extraordinary appointment to multi-ministries.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Victorians go to the polls on November 26, with the Andrews government seeking a third term.
Labor is the clear favourite, but it is under pressure in a number of seats.
The premier is a polarising figure, especially (although not only) as a result of the trials Melburnians endured with the prolonged harsh lockdowns during COVID.
Victoria will be a fresh test of what we saw in the federal poll – the disillusionment of many voters with the major parties.
Karen Andrews is the former home affairs minister and now shadows that portfolio, which includes cyber-security.
With Australians shocked by hackers starting to post Medibank data on the dark web, in this podcast Andrews calls on the health insurer to provide more information.
“There are some very serious questions that need to be put to Medibank about what it actually did.”
“They have sustained incredible reputational damage. The only way that I can see forward for them to be able to improve their public standing is to be very clear and open about what happened, why it happened, and what they are doing to assist their customers".
The aftermath of the Albanese government’s first budget has seen the political and policy debate turn sharply onto the spectre of households and businesses facing sky-high power prices over the next 18 months.
The government is now scrambling to craft a policy to bring the domestic price of gas down.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan talks with Professor Bruce Mountain, Director of the Victoria Energy Policy Centre at Victoria University, about this power price crisis, and the options available to deal with what he calls “a weeping sore”.
Mountain offers four key ways to address gas policy.
Joe Castro/AAPThe aftermath of the Albanese government’s first budget has seen the political and policy debate turn sharply onto the spectre of households and businesses facing sky-high power prices over the next 18 months.
The government is now scrambling to craft a policy to bring the domestic price of gas down.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan talks with Professor Bruce Mountain, Director of the Victoria Energy Policy Centre at Victoria University, about this power price crisis, and the options available to deal with what he calls “a weeping sore”.
Mountain offers four key ways to address gas policy.
“First and foremost, a proper resource tax must be on the table […] a levy on exported gas may be a useful proposition,” he says.
“Secondly, there are some trade-exposed industries that are facing very great pain as a result of the extraordinary surge in gas prices.
"This has an economic impact on employment, on profits, on industries that have been built up over time. And I think some price refuge for those industries will have an economic benefit that is likely to be a good deal higher than the cost.”
“Third, there are still many Australian households that use gas for heating water and for heating spaces, most notably in Victoria. I think a means-tested bill, not a price relief, for those households that battle to afford gas for these purposes, would be worthwhile.
"But I don’t think at the expense of effort in drawing those households off gas. There are cheaper […] ways of heating water and heating spaces and also much, much cleaner ways of doing that.
"Fourthly, I think a more realistic price cap in our various spot gas markets [is] likely to do more good than harm. Some of the absurdly high prices we see in the spot markets have not been useful, and I don’t think there’s much harm in capping them at a low level.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPTreasurer Jim Chalmers says of his first budget: “Inflation is the dragon we need to slay”. Chalmers’ worry about inflation was reinforced by Wednesday’s release of the September quarter CPI, which showed inflation at 7.3%.
In this podcast, we talk to Chalmers, shadow treasurer Angus Taylor, and the head of the Grattan Institute Danielle Wood. Among the topics we canvass are the budget’s broad fiscal settings, the huge increases in power prices it forecasts and the government’s response, the pressures for tax and spending reforms in future budgets, the new housing initiative, and the implications of the childcare policy for women’s workforce participation.
Jim Chalmers Transcript: MICHELLE GRATTAN:
Jim Chalmers, what stands out for ordinary people in this Budget is the big power price rises and we’ve seen electricity is going up by 20 per cent this financial year, 30 per cent next financial year. Broadly the same story for gas. I know you don’t want to pre‑empt government decisions ‑ but will the government take comprehensive action on power prices and when can we expect to get decisions?
JIM CHALMERS:
Thanks, Michelle. First of all, we have taken some steps and I pay tribute to the Energy Minister, Chris Bowen, for the way that he’s worked collaboratively with his state and territory counterparts because we’ve had some issues in energy markets really for the duration of the time that we’ve been in office and he’s made some progress. In the Budget, we found room to fund and empower our regulators ‑ including the ACCC ‑ a bit more about our efforts to get more renewable energy into the system, which in the long term is the only way to fix some of these challenges but we are contemplating whether there’s more we can do. These power prices, the way that they’re increasing, they will sting and we would like to try and find a way to take some of the sting out of it but we need to be realistic about that. We need to be careful and cautious about it and we need to collaborate with states and territories to make sure that if there’s anything that can be sensibly and responsibly done, obviously we’ll consider that. We’ve got more work to do on it.
GRATTAN:
And timing?
CHALMERS:
The work is already happening and I think any responsible government that gets the kind of electricity price forecast that I’ve printed in the Budget this week takes that seriously and considers its options and for me personally, something like this I think makes me consider probably a broader range of options than I may have in years gone by, but beyond that, I don’t really want to narrow it or pre‑empt it. It is principally the job of Chris Bowen, but we will support him, other members of the Cabinet as well, to see if we can do more.
GRATTAN:
Were you personally shocked when these numbers came through, when you were briefed on the trends?
CHALMERS:
I’m not sure about shock ‑ but certainly they are impactful numbers, of course they are and they stand out in the Budget, of course they do ‑ but when you’ve got a war in Ukraine which is causing havoc on the global energy markets and pushing up our own electricity prices and also when you remember that what Angus Taylor did during the election campaign, to hide the first of these big price increases, then I think people know that the price of electricity is going up substantially and that’s a bigger and bigger part of our inflation challenge.
GRATTAN:
On a very different front, the Budget commits to a housing accord between governments, investors and industry to deliver one million houses over five years, starting 2024. Just how will this work and what do you see as the role of the super funds in all this?
CHALMERS:
Yes, crucial role for the super funds. What’s motivating us here is really three things ‑ the vacancy rates for rental properties are extremely low, rents are high, and even when the economy is creating a heap of jobs, it’s harder and harder for people to live near where the jobs are. When you consider the magnitude of that problem, the best response to that is to bring together everyone who’s involved in this market to see if we can do better and so, I’m proud of the work that Julie Collins and I have been able to do. We brought super in, the states and territories and the building industry, and we’ve come up with this accord and superannuation is absolutely central to it because we think for relatively low cost, from a Commonwealth point‑of‑view, we can incentivise super to invest in a way in affordable housing, which gets a great return for their members, but also satisfies one of our big, national priorities which is to build more homes.
GRATTAN:
Now, you’ve indicated very clearly in the Budget that you think future Budgets will need to curb spending and find ways to raise more revenue. On the spending side, the NDIS is headed in a decade to cost about 100 billion a year, which is enormous. You’ve already got a review of the scheme, but do you think that you can get that scheme back under control, in spending without a drastic reshaping of it?
CHALMERS:
First of all, I think the broader point where you started that question is right ‑ we need some combination of fiscal restraint, spending cuts, tax changes and targeted investments to get the Budget on a more sustainable footing and we started that work in the Budget this week. We made good progress on each of those fronts. The NDIS is not the fastest growing area of government spending ‑ that’s actually the cost of servicing the trillion dollars of debt that we inherited from our predecessors ‑ but it’s up there. The NDIS is growing and we take that seriously. Part of that ‑ and Bill Shorten deserves a lot of credit here ‑ is cracking down on any rorting in the scheme. That’s the first step, but we’ve also got this review from a couple of people who really know their stuff to make sure that we put people at the centre of the NDIS, that we’re getting maximum value for money. We support the NDIS, we believe in that, we want to secure its future and part of doing that is making sure that it’s sustainable.
GRATTAN:
Now, on the tax side, we have had a lot of debate about the stage three tax cuts, but tax experts say that the main problem actually isn’t income tax, but the balance in the tax system between income taxes, company taxes on the one side and a whole range of other taxes on the other. Why are you against a comprehensive inquiry into taxation as a preliminary to doing something? You’re obviously going to do something at some stage.
CHALMERS:
I’m not immediately attracted to another tax review. I’ve tried not to completely close off the option just because it’s not unprecedented for Cabinets and Prime Ministers to have a view about this, but our inclination is not to and that’s because what’s different now in 2022 compared to the first term of the Rudd Government, is that we think the issues are broadly known and understood and –
GRATTAN:
We should reference this, that the first term of the Rudd government ‑
CHALMERS:
The Henry Review.
GRATTAN:
The Henry Review. And you were a staffer to the then Treasurer at the time.
CHALMERS:
Yes, that’s ringing a bell, Michelle, and I think that the issues are more broadly understood now than they were then and one of the things I would like to do to help feed this conversation which isn’t a tax review ‑ as I’d like to think differently about the tax expenditure statement that we release so that it’s clearer, people can understand the trade offs ‑ I’d like to do the intergenerational report in a different way that shows the cost of providing services and what kind of revenue we would need to satisfy that. The wellbeing budget is part of this story as well, so I’m trying to change the way we think and talk about the Budget position and tax is part of that, but it’s not the only part of it.
GRATTAN:
Now just finally, obviously framing this Budget has been a very challenging exercise. But if you had to single out the most difficult part of it, what would you say? Is it the fact that it’s such an uncertain environment? Is it that you can’t give more help to people who are really struggling with cost‑of‑living? Or is it something else?
CHALMERS:
I think a version of that second one that you gave as an example. I think by inclination, when times are tough, our instinct is to provide more support, but what we know is ‑ we’re providing some support ‑ but if you overdo it, you risk making inflation worse. Inflation is genuinely public enemy number one. It is the dragon that we need to slay and you don’t want to make it harder to do that by making indiscriminate payments. I think that’s the lesson of the UK in part, and so that has been hard to show that restraint, particularly when we’ve had these revenue windfalls from high commodity prices, that’s been difficult. I know that no Budget ever gets released with universal, unanimous support. I think in the back of people’s minds, there is an understanding that if you overdo it as a government, you can push inflation up, and that pushes interest rates up, and it makes a difficult situation worse than it might otherwise be and we want to try and avoid that and that’s difficult.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Dan Himbrechts/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast, Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass next week’s budget, delivered in grim times for many households and set to slash Coalition programs, making room to implement the Albanese government’s priorities.
On Tuesday the government announced a review of the NDIS, with minister Bill Shorten revealing that between the March budget and now, its projected cost over the next four years has blown out by $8.8 billion. This would bring the scheme’s annual cost to about $50 billion by 2025-26.
The comprehensive review will be led by Bruce Bonyhady, an architect of the scheme, and former senior federal public servant Lisa Paul. It will examine the NDIS’s design, operation and sustainability, as well as how to make it more supportive and responsive for those it assists.
Meanwhile, media reporting this week has exposed rorting and waste in Medicare, although the extent of the problem is disputed, including by the government.
Amanda and Michelle also discuss the new ten-year national plan to address violence against women and children, with its aspiration of ending this violence in one generation.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Bianca de Marchi/AAPThe government has flirted with, and now ruled out, changing the Stage 3 tax cut in the October 25 budget, which appears set to be dominated by some deep spending cuts. In the longer term, however, debate will continue over the need to reform Australia’s tax system, as the calls on revenue to finance big programs increase.
Meanwhile, the government is locked in a battle to get high domestic gas prices down, with its light touch policy towards the gas producers not having much impact.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan talks with Rod Sims, former chair of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC), and now a professor at the Australian National University’s Crawford School for Public Policy, on tax, gas and privatisation.
Sims says tax reform should look beyond income tax. “We have plenty of other ways to raise taxation […] we should be altering the existing petroleum resource rent tax because I think it’s flawed and we can get more money out of that pretty well straight away”. This change could raise “billions per year”.
Advocating a more robust taxing of resources, Sims says: “You’ve got high mineral prices, high gas prices all around the world. That’s causing harm in Australia as well as elsewhere. Yet we’re not getting enough tax from them. I think that’s a really unhealthy situation to be in.”
Sims also criticises the way privatising state assets has been done, and urges changes for the future to ensure competition.
“We should stop privatising assets in ways that see monopolies in private hands without any regulation and often with arrangements to stop them facing competition. I think we’ve got to have tests for making sure we do these things in a competitive way with proper regulation […] if you have three bread shops that you can buy bread from, you get a much better deal than if the only choice you have is one bread shop.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPThe National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) is a landmark reform of the last decade. But while delivering much benefit, it has operational problems and its cost has escalated dramatically – currently around $30 billion annually, there have been suggestions it could reach $60 billion. The scheme looms as one of the major pressures on the Albanese government’s budgets in coming years.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan talks with Bill Shorten, Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and Minister for Government Services about the issues around the scheme and the reforms needed to improve its operation and contain its cost.
Registered providers have been warned they’ll be reined in to prevent “price gouging”.
“We have to tackle this issue of double pricing. That is the phenomena that you turn up with little Johnny for a service, and if you don’t have an NDIS package, the therapy or the treatment you get, you know, is $100. But if you say to them that you’ve got an NDIS package, magically that same service goes up in price, and the scheme shouldn’t be treated that way.”
Shorten wants to clear the legacy load of disputed cases. “When we were elected four months ago, there was four and a half thousand matters tied up in the courts. Now, whilst that’s a small percentage of half a million people [in the NDIS], for those four and a half thousand people, their families, service providers, etc, it’s traumatic, drags on. So we made a resolution to review the matter. What are we really arguing about? Make offers to resolve it”.
In his role as government services minister, Shorten has been vocal in demanding Optus provide the government with full information about those affected by the exposure of Medicare cards and the like.
“I get that Optus is under a lot of pressure and it must be very tough for their executives. But the real victims here are the customers of Optus […] I think communication is getting better now. The reason why we wanted the data is that apparently there’s 36,900 people’s Medicare numbers that have been breached.”
“Where Optus has required government information – passports, driver’s licence, Medicare, etc – we want to have a line of sight. [To know] who are these individuals who are affected so that if we do detect anyone trying to breach the first wall of our defences, we can red flag it straight away.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss the Reserve Bank’s Tuesday interest rate rise of 25 basis points, as the bank tries to chart a careful path between fighting inflation and avoiding the risk of pushing the economy into recession. Amid all the current economic uncertainty, overseas and domestically, there is now speculation the government may rearrange the Stage 3 tax cuts.
The podcast also canvasses the government’s plans to return Australian women and children held in Syrian camps, as well as the start in Canberra of the case involving the alleged rape of former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Lukas Coch/AAPThe government has introduced its legislation for the National Anti-Corruption Commission, which has received the endorsement of opposition leader Peter Dutton and so is assured of passage through parliament.
But critics are unhappy that its public hearings will be limited to when there are “exceptional circumstances”. Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus in this podcast strongly rejects the argument this is too high a hurdle.
The government has yet to nominate a head of the powerful new body, and Dreyfus says it is open to suggestions. Asked if he has anyone particularly in mind he says, “No I do not. […] We’re going to be trying to find someone who’s eminent, who has a real standing in the community.”
On the question of so-called “grey corruption”, notably misuse of ministerial discretion in grants schemes, Dreyfus stresses it will be completely up to the commission to decide what might justify investigation.
“We’ve included in this bill a broad definition of corrupt conduct. It goes to breach of public trust, abuse of someone’s office as a public official, misuse of information acquired in the person’s capacity as a public official, but leaves open to the commission to find other forms of conduct are corrupt.”
The anti-corruption legislation contains protection for whistleblowers but Dreyfus has yet to unveil an overhaul of the existing more general legislation on whitleblowers.
He says he has “a long-standing commitment to protection of whistleblowers”.
“I brought the Public Interest Disclosure Act 2013 to the parliament […] when I was last attorney-general. I was conscious then that we might not have got the scheme completely right, and provided for a statutory review to take place.” He will look at the recommendations of that review, which reported in 2016, and update it “with a view to strengthening the protection” for whistleblowers.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Dan Himbrechts/AAPThe Ukraine conflict has escalated this week, with Russia’s President Vladimir Putin announcing a partial military mobilisation and once again raising the threat of nuclear weapons.
Meanwhile Ukraine has been pressing Australia to provide another 30 Bushmasters, after those already helping the war effort are proving very effective.
In this podcast Ukraine’s ambassador Vasyl Myroshnychenko urges the Albanese government to reopen Australia’s embassy in his country as soon as possible.
“By now 60 different countries have sent their embassies and ambassadors back to Kyiv. And I think it’s important for Australia to go back because if Bruce Edwards [the ambassador, now stationed in Poland] is on the ground, he’s capable of meeting people there and interacting with the minister of defence, with the minister of foreign affairs, with other stakeholders in Ukraine, to provide a better feedback to Canberra.”
Pushing for the additional Bushmasters and other weaponry, Myroshnychenko says: “Hop in a taxi [in Kyiv] and the taxi driver is going to ask you, ‘where are you from?’ And you will say you’re Australian. So most likely he’s going to say ‘Bushmaster’ […] It’s kind of a very strong brand name, currently strongly associated with Australia. Just like kangaroos and koalas are. It’s now a Bushmaster.”
Myroshnychenko also calls for the government to replace the scheme, now expired, that was set up by the Morrison government to give some financial help to Ukrainians who fled the war.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and Amanda Dunn, the Conversation’s politics editor, canvass Jim Chalmers’ announcement of a windfall improvement of almost $50 billion in the budget outcome for the financial year just ended – which the treasurer is talking down as the result of temporary factors. He insists his October “bread and butter” budget is full of challenges, as the government trawls through Coalition programs looking for cuts.
Michelle and Amanda also discuss the latest polling on a republic, as well as the introduction next week of legislation for a national integrity commission.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Jason South/The AgeJoseph Ibrahim, Professor and Head, Health Law and Ageing Research Unit, Monash University, specialises in aged care issues. He has been a long-term advocate for improving the quality of life for those in residential care and for reform of the sector.
In this podcast, Ibrahim says currently COVID in aged care facilities is going largely unnoticed in the media. “If you have a look into the media coverage it would seem that it’s not a problem at all. [But] COVID deaths are far greater than at any time in the last two to three years”. While the vaccines have helped get things under control, the absence of restrictions is seeing infection rates at an all-time high. Ibrahim believes there should be a more tailored approach to outbreaks at facilities, depending on the circumstances.
A key election promise from Anthony Albanese was for a nurse on-site 24/7 in aged care facilities. Ibrahim is sceptical about how this will be achieved, given how many would be needed to meet the objective. “We would need 15,000 new nurses just to have one nurse in every facility, 24/7.”
More generally, in relation to the desperate staff shortages in the sector, Ibrahim says there is a “lack of respect” for aged care workers, citing low pay, the treatment they are given compared to healthcare professionals in hospitals, and the lesser opportunities for a career path.
Home care packages are key to the ability of many older people to stay at home. “I don’t think we’re keeping people at home for as long as we could […] Both governments have addressed and increased the amount of support packages available. The issue with that is, the package may be available, but the staff aren’t there to deliver on what’s within that package”. In some cases “I think people want to stay at home because they’re fearful of going into residential care, and so residential care isn’t seen as an option, it’s seen as a last resort”.
More radically, Ibrahim would like to see the end of nursing homes altogether. “We shouldn’t be having nursing homes at all […] do we believe that orphanages are a good way to look after children who have fractured family or who don’t have parents?”
One alternative to nursing homes would be “you might have small communal housing that might have five to ten people in them”.
“Or there are design changes around what you do when you get to 60, 70 or 80 in terms of downsizing and moving into a home that is more likely to meet your needs […] There’s also shared communal housing with people of different ages and different needs.
"I think we’ve been very lazy in just relying on aged care homes as a solution. So we’ve picked a lazy solution and we’re doing it badly.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Sherwin Crasto/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and Amanda Dunn, the Conversation’s politics editor, canvass Anthony Albanese’s announcement of ten “everyday” Australians who will travel with him to the United Kingdom on Thursday for the Queen’s funeral, which will be held on Monday. They include Dylan Alcott, 2022 Australian of the Year.
Amanda and Michelle also discuss the (slightly delayed) introduction of the legislation for a national integrity body, the future of the republic issue, and Albanese’s determination to follow proper processes.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Lukas Coch/AAPSimon Holmes à Court and his Climate 200, the body that provided funding for “teal” and some other independent candidates who promoted action on climate change, integrity and women’s issues, had great success at the federal election. But will community candidates become a big force in November’s Victorian poll and the March NSW election?
In this podcast, Holmes à Court talks about the “enthusiasm” from the community independents movement about the desertion by voters of the major parties, and the mobilisation already under way in various areas to get behind candidates. But he stresses there will be new challenges to face in the two state campaigns. A major one is the more restrictive arrangements around funding, compared with the federal election.
Community independents in the state elections will target frustrations in their local areas, but climate change and integrity will be strong themes of their campaigns. “In Victoria, our polling shows that climate is very high [in voters’ minds] and people are frustrated with the pace of change in some of the Andrews government’s actions there - we have the dirtiest grid in the country and a less certain plan for phasing out coal than New South Wales, for example”.
Federally, teal candidates ran in Liberal seats. In Victoria, where there is a long-time Labor government, can we expect to see strong community independents also in Labor seats?
“There is talk in Victoria that there might be some independents or minor parties challenging more in the outer suburbs and putting a lot of heat on the Andrews government, responding to the frustrations in those communities.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Joel Carrett/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast, Politics and Society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss Tuesday’s interest rate rise of 50 basis points – the fifth increase in a row – as well as the imminent passage of Labor’s climate legislation though the senate (with minor gestures to crossbencher David Pocock), and the industrial relations negotiations coming out of last week’s summit. They also canvass Scott Morrison flagging he’s staying in parliament for the time being – just as an Essential poll finds a narrow majority of voters want him to leave.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Lukas Coch/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this podcast, Politics and Society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle canvass the start of the jobs summit – at which Anthony Albanese announced a package of more than $1 billion in federal-state funding for TAFE places. They also discuss the government’s continued commitment to the Stage 3 tax cuts, national cabinet’s easing of COVID restrictions, and the inquiry into Scott Morrison’s multi ministries.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPFor Treasurer Jim Chalmers, this week’s jobs and skills summit is the prelude to what will be his main game, the October budget.
The summit, to be held in Canberra on Thursday and Friday, still has many moving parts, notably in the intense debate we’re hearing about what changes should be made to the wages system. But Chalmers can already welcome “a broad appetite” for raising permanent migration from the present cap of 160,000.
“We’ve got these skills and labour shortages running rampant through our economy,” he says. “So we need to move on this front, as well as other fronts simultaneously – not as a substitute for doing something meaningful on skills and training, but in addition to doing that”.
He accepts that boosting immigration will impose pressures, notably on housing. “That’s why I’ve been speaking a lot in the last week or so about housing, trying to work with the super funds and other big investors to see where we can incentivise some more investment in housing.”
On skills and training, Anthony Albanese will speak to premiers on Wednesday about “some of the things we might be able to advance”.
Ahead of the summit, Chalmers has been pleasantly surprised he’s had to do less beating back demands than he’d expected. “I thought that there was a risk that I’d just be sent a whole bunch of invoices for big, expensive policy ideas and asked to sort it out.” But people had recognised the constraints of the debt situation and that everything couldn’t be funded.
So for him, “there’s been less of the saying no, and there’s been more facilitating really productive conversations.”
Looking to the budget, Chalmers says it will be “very workmanlike” and not a great surprise packet. “I think it will be a budget where people know what’s coming.”
Despite calls for the government’s childcare package to be brought forward, Chalmers says the start date will remain at July next year. Acceleration was ruled out because of expense and possible operational difficulties.
He has an “open mind” on allowing older people to work more without losing their pension but “we would need to make sure that the costs would be worth it”.
“A theme of the budget will be around resilience – at a personal level, the community level, and at the national level,” Chalmers says.
A decade of conflict and “warped priorities” has made the Australian economy and its people more vulnerable to international shocks and health shocks, he says. “So my job, as I see it, and our job as a government is to take a community and an economy and a budget which is more vulnerable than it should be and to make it more resilient.
"And that’s why implementing our commitments, providing cost of living relief, trying to get value for money in the budget, dealing with the issues in the labour market [are] all so important.”
EDITED TRANSCRIPT
MICHELLE GRATTAN: Jim Chalmers, the unions and at least some of the employer representatives seem a good distance apart on the bargaining system. Do you think consensus can be reached on a set of industrial relations changes?
JIM CHALMERS: I think there’s agreement already that the enterprise bargaining system isn’t working as we want it to, and there are different reasons why people have come to that view. But in an overarching sense, and certainly from our point of view, it’s not delivered that strong, sustainable, responsible wages growth that we want to see. So I think, in the broadest sense, there’s an agreement that we can do better. And I’ve actually been really heartened by the way that the unions and the employer groups have genuinely engaged in some of these issues. There hasn’t been the kind of old-style clash of armies around industrial relations. And we find that very encouraging, very heartening.
GRATTAN: Tony Burke appears to have all but given the nod to multi-employer bargaining. But in terms of outcomes, how big a difference would a move to that sector bargaining make to the rate of wage growth do you think? Is there any modelling on this?
CHALMERS: It depends how it’s applied. We want to see a discussion of multi-employer bargaining at the summit. If there’s an idea which is about getting wages growing again after a decade of stagnation, then we want to hear it and we want it to be teased out at the summit. That is, in many ways, one of the points of having the summit in the first place. And so there are different models for multi-employer bargaining. And we’ll hear all of them, no doubt, over the next couple of days and how it’s applied will determine what it means for wages.
But I think when it comes to wages, stagnant wages have probably been the defining problem in the economy now for the best part of a decade. And I don’t want to get partisan about our predecessors and the policy that they pursued of deliberate wage suppression and stagnation but that’s where we are right now. And so if you want to get wages moving again, you’ve got to fix bargaining, which is what we’re talking about now. You’ve got to train people for higher-skilled opportunities, you’ve got to fix childcare so newer parents, especially mums can work more and earn more if they want to. You’ve got to get all of these pieces right at the same time. And that’s why the summit’s been so useful as an organising principle for the government and for the broader community because it recognises that there’s not one switch that we can flick to get wages growing, and we need to move on all fronts simultaneously. And that’s what we’ll do.
GRATTAN: Let me put this another way. What rate of wages growth is desirable in your view?
CHALMERS: It depends on how much productivity growth you can get. Productivity growth gets lost in the kind of egg-headedness of economic jargon. But productivity is really about investing in people sufficiently that they can adapt and adopt technology in a way that benefits the workplace and the broader economy beyond that, as well. So if you can get productivity growing again, and it’s been flat for too long, and if you get some of that wages growth by bargaining, skilling up, childcare - all of these other ways - then there’s no reason why we can’t have much stronger, but yet still sustainable wages growth.
I’m reluctant to do what the Reserve Bank and others have done which is to try and put a figure on it - about three and a half per cent in their estimation - which is the middle point of inflation, targeting at two and a half percent plus a percentage point of productivity. I would like to get productivity going again and make our economy more competitive at the same time as we get wages growing again.
And on top of that, we’ve got this huge inflation challenge right now, which is primarily but not exclusively given to us by the rest of the world. And that matters in this equation, too, because real wages are going backwards. So we need to work where we can to moderate inflation, we need to get wages growing again. And we can find a really good balance point where people who are working hard can actually get ahead again in this economy.
GRATTAN: On that inflation problem, you’ve indicated you think inflation will peak at around seven and three quarters percent by the end of the year. But are you now optimistic that we will see it peaking at the end of the year - that it won’t continue growing into next calendar year and that will be the high point - 7.75%?
CHALMERS: It’s notoriously hard to peg but the treasury’s estimation - their modelling, their forecasts - say that inflation, as you say, will hit about seven and three quarters by the end of the year and then start to moderate and then get to more normal levels in 2024.
GRATTAN: That’s still current?
CHALMERS: That’s still current. And the next opportunity to update that will be in the October budget and I’ll do that. We’ve been heartened by the fact that inflation in the US and the UK - which is extremely high - we’ve got a reasonable number in the US not that long ago, the UK has got a bit further to go. But we’ll be watching closely what happens on the international scene because so much of this is brought to us from overseas. And we will update our forecasts if we need to, but nothing has substantially changed to change my view about those treasury forecasts.
GRATTAN: So in bringing down inflation, that tends to push up unemployment, right? Do you think unemployment will rise substantially in this fight against inflation or only a little?
CHALMERS: Not if we get all the settings right. And by ‘we’ I mean there’s an important role for the Reserve Bank taking their decisions independently to balance their full employment objective with their inflation targeting objective. That’s the hard task that they have before them. The Americans and the Brits and others are managing a similar set of circumstances in a way that most people expect the US economy to be going backwards. And so we have to do better than that broadly when it comes to our our policy settings. Our expectations in the treasury forecast is that unemployment will tick up a little bit but not a lot.
GRATTAN: What do you mean by a little bit?
CHALMERS: The forecasts that I released in the Ministerial Statement had it edging up around four per cent rather than 3.4 at the moment. That is partly a story about interest rates but it’s also a story about the global conditions which are extremely tricky right now and that’s why I keep coming back to them.
Our job, our goal, our aspiration, our objective, the point of the jobs summit and the point of our economic policy is to try and keep unemployment as low as we can and to get wages growing at the same time and that’s why our focus is on all of these areas we’ve been talking about.
GRATTAN: Now, we do seem to have some agreement about more permanent migration and there’s been talk of the cap going from 160,000 to around 200,000. Do you have any hard data on the outcome of that? What benefit would flow to the economy from, say, 200,000?
CHALMERS: A couple of things about that. I don’t want to pre-empt the outcome of the summit, of course, but I think there is a broad appetite for a lift in our migration intake. It needs to be sensible, it needs to not be a substitute for training local people for opportunities. But we’ve got these skills and labour shortages running rampant through our economy, particularly in some parts of Australia and some parts of our economy. And so we need to move on this front as well as the other fronts simultaneously - not as a substitute for doing something meaningful on skills and training but in addition to doing that.
I’m confident that we’ll get to a sensible landing point. The economic benefits there are pretty obvious. Almost every day I do some kind of consultation with business groups around Australia and with regional communities and with others and people are screaming out for more workers, skilled workers, but also workers more broadly. And so we’ve got to get a landing here. The benefits for the economy will be obvious. There are a lot of businesses that are only operating at half pace or half time because they can’t find the workers that they need. If we can take that handbrake off, then we’ll grow the economy more than otherwise.
GRATTAN: What about the immediate problems that an increase in migration undoubtedly brings in terms of the strain on the health system, on housing, so on, especially as things are at the moment?
CHALMERS: First of all, migration brings immense benefits to our economy, not just our labour market, but more broadly as well, point taken. I think that’s broadly agreed, but yes, it does throw up some other pressures too. And that’s why I’ve been speaking a lot in the last week or so about housing, trying to work with the super funds and other big investors, to see where we can incentivise some more investment in housing. I did a forum in Rockhampton a couple of weeks ago, where every business around there said we’ve got, really around the table there were thousands of vacancies in a great Queensland town, in great industries, big employer industries with secure well-paid jobs. But they needed to find somewhere to put people in order to attract them, and so that message has been heard loud and clear by us. We’ve got some existing policies on housing, but we’ll need to do more, and I’ll work with the super funds and others to make that possible.
GRATTAN: But of course, you’ve got a time problem here, you need the houses now, if migrants are coming in more numbers, and yet, if you’re talking about investment, that takes a while.
CHALMERS: We’ve got to get cracking then.
GRATTAN: Alright, now you talk about training locals. And of course, there was a statement from the ACTU and business groups the other day, agreeing on the need to do this. One tangible point they made was, they think there should be more money put into apprenticeships, generally, but also to pay apprentices more and employers, you up for any more money?
CHALMERS: I’m certainly up for more intelligent, responsive investment in the skills system. We’ve already got big commitments of billions of dollars in skills and education. And we’ve got to work out how is that best timed, how is it best set up, so that we’re dealing particularly with the skill shortages as they evolve in the economy. And so there are better ways we can even deliver our existing policies. The Prime Minister will be talking with the Premiers this week, on Wednesday this week, about skills and training and some of the things we might be able to advance ahead of the jobs and skills summit. And I’ve been working closely with Brendan O'Connor, to see what else we might be able to do. The skills and training system needs to change. It hasn’t been responsive enough. It’s not turning out the graduates that we need to see in the areas that we need to see them. Brendan’s been working around the clock, with our support, to see what we could do better.
GRATTAN: Do you agree with this point that apprentices can’t adequately live on what they’re paid and more government help is needed in this area?
CHALMERS: That’s one of the issues, but it’s not been the issue that we’ve been primarily focused on. We’ve been primarily focused on trying to work out, where are the genuine shortages, and how quickly can we train people for those opportunities. If you take a step back, well there’s two ways to take a step back here. I’ll try and be brief because I’m passionate about this. You mentioned the ACTU employer groups, about skills. One of the most heartening things about this whole process, is it’s not a government sitting there referring competing claims, it’s a lot of these groups, union, employer groups working together, and then coming to us with something that they’ve worked out. That has been tremendous, that has been so heartening and encouraging to see that. The second way you can think about all of this is, when you’ve got unemployment at 3.4 per cent. You’ve got a tight labour market, you’ve got some other things going for us in the economy, but you’ve got these big challenges. Our overarching task, our reason for being as a Labor Government, the reason I’m a member of parliament, representing Logan City and Queensland, is because we need to get much better, at not just creating opportunities, but making sure that more people from more postcodes, can actually access those opportunities. We’ve got a big willing workforce out there, if we’re prepared to do the work to skill them up and train them up, and hook them up with these opportunities. That’s primarily a role for the skills and training system, and that’s why it will be one of the biggest focuses of the Summit.
GRATTAN: Seems to me at this summit, is Treasurer, you have two tasks. One is promoting a path to consensus and agreement, but the other is saying no to stakeholders on their wish lists. How do you balance those?
CHALMERS: To be honest with you, Michelle, there has been less of the latter than I anticipated. To be frank about it, I thought, a month or two ago, I thought that there was a risk that I’d just be sent a whole bunch of invoices for big expensive policy ideas, and asked to sort it out. What’s happened has been something very different. People recognise the budget is heaving with a trillion dollars in debt, and that we can’t fund everything that we want to fund. So they’re trying to work out, how do we make progress without imposing, massive additional strain on a budget, which is already awash with red ink. And so there’s been less of the saying no, and there’s been more facilitating really productive conversations. What that tells me, is that the the tone that Anthony Albanese has set, and the effort that we’ve put in to genuinely bring people together around our economic challenges, has already in some senses paid-off. Because people are having conversations they weren’t having four and five and six years ago. They’re genuinely trying to find some common ground and we’re not naive about that. Not everyone’s going to come there and hold hands and agree on everything. It’d be pointless if we already had all the same views about everything. There’ll be some contentious stuff, there’ll be some stuff that we can’t advance, but already the appetite to work together, and to come together, has been very encouraging. And I’m confident, cautiously optimistic, that at the end of the Summit, that people will agree that it’s been worth the effort.
GRATTAN: Now, as soon as the summit is over, the budget will loom. Can you give us a flavour of the budget? Is the main purpose to implement the election promises with perhaps a little extra in the way of measures, and how tough is the cutting process going to be?
CHALMERS: It’s tough in the sense that it requires a lot of work. Katy Gallagher, my colleague and friend, has been doing a heap of work to go through the budget, line by line, with treasury and finance, to work out where we can responsibly cut things back, particularly, when it comes to dealing with that legacy of rorts and waste that we’ve seen in the budget. So that’s part of the task, another part of the task is providing responsible, affordable cost of living relief, where it delivers another economic benefit. So child care obviously has a benefit for the labour market, as well as providing cost of living relief. medicine costs, has a benefit for health care, but also provides cost of living relief. Getting wages moving is a big part of our cost of living policies as well. And then, as you rightly identify, we’ve got to budget for our commitments, and also budget for any commitments that might come out of the jobs and skills summit. So I think it’ll be a very workman-like budget, I think it will be a budget where people know what’s coming.
GRATTAN: Not a surprise Budget.
CHALMERS: Just in the sense that people know what our priorities are, because we just took them to an election. And people know what our emphasis is because we’ve just taken it to a jobs summit. And so in that regard, I think it’ll be very, in lots of ways, unsurprising. But also sitting over the top of it, and what unites the summit, the budget, the Government itself, is not just bringing people together around the challenges, but also trying to make our economy more resilient. I think the theme of the Budget will be around resilience at the personal level, the community level, and at the national level. The costs and consequences of this decade of needless conflict and division, and wasted opportunities and warped priorities, has made our economy and our people more vulnerable to these sorts of international shocks, and health shocks that we’ve seen right now. And so my job as I see it, and our job as a Government is to take a community, and an economy and a budget, which is more vulnerable than it should be, and to make it more resilient. And that’s why implementing our commitments, providing cost of living relief, trying to get value for money in the Budget, dealing with the issues in the labour market, they’re also important.
GRATTAN: Talking about cost of living, last week, you were asked about bringing child care forward, improved child care system, and you sent out some conflicting messages.
CHALMERS: I didn’t mean to Michelle.
GRATTAN: Can we just clear that up? Is that a possibility?
CHALMERS: Of course we can Michelle, and it was a burst of candor, and Patricia Karvelas can do that to you sometimes, you forget that a lot of people are listening.
CHALMERS: The truth is we had a look at it and it’s very expensive, and there might be operational issues around rushing it. And so we decided against bringing it forward. Good people that we respect like Jay Weatherill even this week has called for it to be delivered earlier. We think it will be a game changer for Australian parents. We think it’s a really important policy, almost $5 billion of investment, in a key economic reform to be delivered in July. It’ll be really important when it does come in - that’s not that far away. We had a look at all the alternatives - Anne Aly, Jason Clare and myself. I think your listeners and subscribers should expect that that policy will be implemented in July.
GRATTAN: And they should be expecting to pay more for their petrol in September when that runs out?
CHALMERS: That’s the unfortunate reality of the budget -
GRATTAN: You’re not moving on that?
CHALMERS: No. And we said that before the election, during the election, and after the election. It costs about $3 billion to extend it even for six months. A budget, which is full of all of this debt that we inherited, cannot carry an expense of that kind.
GRATTAN: Now, the other issue is pressure to do something in the way of encouraging older people to stay in the workforce by changing pension arrangements - where are you up to on that?
CHALMERS: We have had a look at this. We had a look in before the election and subsequently - we’re still doing work on it. We would need to make sure that the cost would be worth it. It’s actually more costly than people assume because a lot of people who are working right now would then qualify for the pension, come on to the pension. And that’s where the costly bit is. We also want to make sure it’s effective. We haven’t found a lot of evidence so far that people are targeting that $490 that they can currently earn per fortnight. But we’ve got a relatively open mind to it. We know it will come out of the jobs and skills summit - that’s a good thing. And I’ve got an open mind. I certainly listen to people’s views but we need to recognise there’s costs associated with it and we want to make sure we get bang for buck.
GRATTAN: Just on this point of a wellbeing assessment, a wellbeing budget - is this a sort of cost benefit analysis? It’s a bit unclear to me what a wellbeing budget is, although my colleague Peter Martin has been erudite on this.
CHALMERS: He has. I read everything Peter writes about this. I think the best way to understand what we’re trying to do here is to measure what matters in our economy and in our society. We’ve got all these traditional measures of the economy, which I’m not suggesting for a moment we abandon. But in addition to that, we should get better at measuring environmental outcomes, health outcomes, other things that are crucial to our economy. I think there’s been an awakening around the world. Other countries are doing this. The OECD has got a system. The Kiwis across the ditch have got a system. I would love to broaden out the conversation about economic benefit by measuring what matters in our economy. And so what I’ll do in October in the budget - you’re read a lot of budgets, Michelle, in your time, you know that there’s a thing called Budget Statement 4 and it’s always a forward-looking piece. In Budget Statement 4 I will indicate where I’m headed on wellbeing and on measuring what matters.. At some subsequent point, probably next year, we will release a set of indicators that we want people to engage with. It’s been really quite amazing the level of engagement we’ve had already on this idea people come from everywhere around the world and around Australia, because there is an appetite to measure progress differently in our economy. And I’m up for that. I’m a believer in that.
GRATTAN: On the numbers, you will in fact be looking at a better up starting bottom line then was expected in the Josh Frydenberg budget, right? So will any of this windfall be used to spend on somethings or will it be put to the bottom line?
CHALMERS: Firstly, you’re right. The budget outcome for last year will be quite substantially better than what was predicted in the pre-election fiscal outlook. That’s for a couple of reasons that we can’t count on unfortunately going forward. First of all, commodity prices were just through the roof and that delivered a benefit that governments can’t take credit for. And secondly, a lot of the spending that was promised by our predecessors, they didn’t get it out of the door. So it wasn’t spent in that year and so that’s improved the budget bottom line for that year, but put pressure on subsequent years. I don’t necessarily see that in terms of do we bank that or do we spend it for the sake of spending it, but there are a lot of spending pressures which weren’t budgeted for when government changed hands. A lot of the pandemic spending that we’ve had to do in Mark Butler’s portfolio has been necessary but not budgeted for by our predecessors. So inevitably, some of that improvement will go towards some of this unavoidable spending.
GRATTAN: Just finally, we’re having a debate now quite an intense debate about whether the stage three tax cuts should be reworked or scrapped or kept. Now Anthony Albanese has recommitted to them. But can I just ask you, how do you see these in terms of a burden on the budget? They are going to cost a great deal over a decade. How would you characterise them in terms of the impact positively and negatively?
CHALMERS: I think it’s self-evident that they’re very expensive for the budget. I think that’s been known throughout but our position on them hasn’t changed. It’s important to remember that even if a government were to tweak those stage three tax cuts, they don’t come in for another couple of years. So they have absolutely no bearing on some of these challenges that we’re dealing with right now. We haven’t changed our position on those tax cuts. We’ve said that our priority in tax reform is multinational taxes and we’ve got a full agenda in the near term, particularly around some of these labour market issues that have motivated the Jobs and Skills summit. So that’s our priority. That’s what the Government’s working on. We haven’t changed our position on stage three.
GRATTAN: The then-opposition criticised them at the time, of course, quite strongly while voting for them in the end. Do you see them as having any positive economic implications as well as the negative ones for the budget?
CHALMERS: I think it’s important to remember that these tax cuts kick in at $45,000. For a lot of Australians with quite modest incomes, they will be getting an additional tax cuts in stage three - we shouldn’t lightly dismiss that. People are focused for understandable reasons on other parts of the income scale, but we shouldn’t forget that they kick in at $45,000. And so obviously if you can provide tax relief to people on those sorts of incomes - middle incomes - and if you can afford to do so then that obviously has a potential economic benefit. But again, nothing that people are proposing to do with stage three would alter the fundamentals of the budget over the next couple of years, the inflation challenge that we’re dealing with right now, the issues with wages. And so the Government is focused on that. We haven’t changed our position on the tax cuts.
GRATTAN: So they will definitely stay: L - A - W?
CHALMERS: That’s the commitment that we made before the election. We were serious when we made that commitment. We haven’t changed it, subsequently.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
original David Littleproud runs his own race. In opposition he’s Nationals leader first and Coalitionist second. Thus he was quick out of the blocks criticising Scott Morrison’s power grab, and when Peter Dutton rejected an invitation to next week’s jobs and skills summit, Littleproud said he wanted to go.
In this Podcast Littleproud says about the government’s planned inquiry into Morrison’s actions: “I’m happy to work within whatever the constraints of what the government decides, that’s their prerogative. But it just seems to me this has now become an obsession of Anthony Albanese.”
Of the conflicting signals from the opposition about the jobs summit, Littleproud says: “We’re two separate parties. I represent the National Party and Peter Dutton represents the Liberal Party. He made a decision on behalf of the Liberal Party that he would not attend.”
He’s scathing that the Nationals were not originally invited. “The fact that this government didn’t even bother to ask anyone from regional and rural Australia to represent their interests was a failing to start with.”
Littleproud has stressed to his party the need to rebuild trust in the community, especially with women. “We’re going to do that at a grassroots level. "We’ve got to listen and understand”.
He is enthusiastic about the Coalition’s embrace of an examination of nuclear power. “I’m pleased to say that Peter Dutton has subsequently been able to get the Liberal Party to support that view. We’re not talking about big nuclear power plants across this country, we’re talking about the emerging technology of small scale modular technology for nuclear that’s appearing particularly in northern America.”
When asked which position is more difficult, being a senior minister with great responsibility or being leader of his party in opposition, Littleproud says: “I think obviously in opposition, because you’ve got to try and convince someone that holds the pen of the necessity of what you’re trying to prosecute”.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the solicitor-general’s advice on Scott Morrison’s secret appointment to multiple ministries, which flouted “responsible government”. Morrison’s action will now be scrutinised by an inquiry.
They also canvass next week’s jobs and skills summit, where the government will be seeking agreement on immigration and improving industrial relations.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the solicitor-general’s advice on Scott Morrison’s secret appointment to multiple ministries, which flouted “responsible government”. Morrison’s action will now be scrutinised by an inquiry.
They also canvass next week’s jobs and skills summit, where the government will be seeking agreement on immigration and improving industrial relations.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
The revelation that Scott Morrison secretly had himself appointed to five separate portfolios has triggered widespread outrage, just when the broader question of integrity has been a big political issue.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan speaks with Independent member for Indi Helen Haines, who has pushed for a national integrity commission. Such a body will soon be legislated by the Albanese government.
Haines strongly condemns Morrison’s behaviour, although she doesn’t see it as the sort of matter that would go to an integrity commission. “It doesn’t appear apparent to me that there are questions here of corruption. But we don’t know really what motivated the prime minister to keep all of this a secret.”
Haines says an Anti-Corruption Commission needs to have the capacity to investigate what has been dubbed “grey” corruption, such as jobs for the boys and pork barrelling.
She argues that “public money being spent for political gain through so-called rorting or pork barrelling is potentially corruption.”
“These bodies are seeking to stamp out corruption and they are seeking to shine a light in dark places. Now, in shining that light, they may well determine that there’s nothing to be seen.
"But on the other hand, they may well find that there are practices which have been accepted as kind of matey and okay that in fact lead to poor governance, that lead to poor public policy, that lead to an erosion of trust in our leaders.”
“There needs to be a pathway that communities can see is fair and just. [So] that if you need a hospital in your electorate (as indeed I do), if you need new roads or a bridge or whatever it might be, that there’s a clear pathway to applying for those funds, putting forward a case, and a legitimate system that shows where you are in the queue to achieving the infrastructure that you need in your community.”
In her maxim for integrity in politics, Haines says politicians need to “be what you want to see.”
Lukas Coch/AAPThe revelation that Scott Morrison secretly had himself appointed to five separate portfolios has triggered widespread outrage, just when the broader question of integrity has been a big political issue.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan speaks with Independent member for Indi Helen Haines, who has pushed for a national integrity commission. Such a body will soon be legislated by the Albanese government.
Haines strongly condemns Morrison’s behaviour, although she doesn’t see it as the sort of matter that would go to an integrity commission. “It doesn’t appear apparent to me that there are questions here of corruption. But we don’t know really what motivated the prime minister to keep all of this a secret.”
Haines says an Anti-Corruption Commission needs to have the capacity to investigate what has been dubbed “grey” corruption, such as jobs for the boys and pork barrelling.
She argues that “public money being spent for political gain through so-called rorting or pork barrelling is potentially corruption.”
“These bodies are seeking to stamp out corruption and they are seeking to shine a light in dark places. Now, in shining that light, they may well determine that there’s nothing to be seen.
"But on the other hand, they may well find that there are practices which have been accepted as kind of matey and okay that in fact lead to poor governance, that lead to poor public policy, that lead to an erosion of trust in our leaders.”
“There needs to be a pathway that communities can see is fair and just. [So] that if you need a hospital in your electorate (as indeed I do), if you need new roads or a bridge or whatever it might be, that there’s a clear pathway to applying for those funds, putting forward a case, and a legitimate system that shows where you are in the queue to achieving the infrastructure that you need in your community.”
In her maxim for integrity in politics, Haines says politicians need to “be what you want to see.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss this week’s revelations that former prime minster Scott Morrison had himself secretly sworn into five different portfolios. They talk about the criticisms some are making of Governor-General David Hurley for his role, and the political fallout which has seen one Liberal frontbencher, Karen Andrews, saying Morrison should leave parliament.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss this week’s revelations that former prime minster Scott Morrison had himself secretly sworn into five different portfolios. They talk about the criticisms some are making of Governor-General David Hurley for his role, and the political fallout which has seen one Liberal frontbencher, Karen Andrews, saying Morrison should leave parliament.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPThe Chinese reaction to United States Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s Taiwan visit further escalated tensions in our region, as China becomes more bellicose in language and action.
On Wednesday, China’s Ambassador Xiao Qian spoke at the National Press Club. He talked about wanting a positive relationship between Australia and China, while reiterating China’s uncompromising line towards Taiwan, and giving a chilling prediction of what the Taiwanese would be in for post reunification.
“The least thing we are ready to do is use force. That is one of the reasons why China has been so patient for several decades. […] We’re waiting for a peaceful unification. But […] we can never rule out the option to use other means […] when compelled, we are ready to use all necessary means.”
“My personal understanding is that once Taiwan is united, come back to the motherland, there might be process for the people in Taiwan to have a correct understanding of China.”
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan speaks with Nick Bisley, Professor of International Relations at La Trobe University, an expert in Asian foreign relations and Australia’s foreign and defence policy.
Bisley says “what we are probably entering into, at least for the next few months, is a period of much sharply-heightened instability and military kind of friction in and around Taiwan”.
“China has made very clear for decades now that under certain circumstances it would use military force to deal with what it sees as a rogue province. And those circumstances are largely around a unilateral declaration of independence by Taiwan or some other really significant move away from the old status quo.”
“I think what what we see out of this crisis is that China’s risk appetite has gone up and its willingness to put up with what it sees as kind of provocations has gone down.
"So the likelihood of them using military force to coerce Taiwan – it’s not going to happen this year or next year, but its likelihood of occurring in the next four to five years has distinctly increased.”
On whether there is the likelihood of a conflict between China and the US as tensions between the two nations continue to rise, “the constraints that domestic politics puts on each side means that we could end up in a situation where they are backed into a corner and find that there’s few ways out other than some kind of military action, which then escalates.”
But “if there is a proper conflict between the US and China, everyone loses pretty significantly.”
“When we look back in February 2022, thinking about what Putin would do in relation to Ukraine, we all thought he’s not going to do a full-blown invasion. It doesn’t make any sense. It’s not in his interest to do so. I think we’ve always thought that about Taiwan. It’s just not in the US’s interest to do the full-blown military operation. And the lesson has got to be from Ukraine, is that sometimes rationality doesn’t always win.”
On whether the Albanese government is handling the rising tensions with China well, Bisley says: “They’re playing a reasonable hand in what is a pretty difficult set of circumstances.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Lucas Coch/AAPThe Albanese government has released the draft wording for enshrining an Indigenous Voice to parliament in the constitution. Anthony Albanese is making a referendum a priority but history tells us how hard these are to pass.
Tom Calma, Chancellor of the University of Canberra, has been a leading participant in Indigenous affairs for many years. He and professor Marcia Langton prepared a report for the Morrison government on the Voice. They recommended a Voice structure involving local and regional levels as well as the national level.
The Albanese government has not spelled out a detailed model for the Voice it proposes, but the extensive consultations Calma and Langton undertook produced insights that will help shape the conversations ahead.
“We’ve got to understand that when we talk about the Voice through referendum changes to the Australian constitution, [it] is only about Commonwealth legislation and not about state and territory legislation,” Calma tells the podcast.
He says during the consultation process, people said “we support a national voice, but don’t forget us at the local and regional level, because that’s where all the action takes place”.
“When we look at education, employment, health service delivery, all of that takes place under a state or territory jurisdictional level, supplemented by funding from the Commonwealth. It’s administered through the states and territories by and large.”
Calma says regional groups could “do the canvassing of the membership and push that up to the national-level voice”.
“There needs to be these other regional level arrangements and all the [federal] government needs to do is to agree to that – and then the dialogue can start with the states and territory governments to build up what form it might take.
"But none of this is coming out cold because in every state and territory, they’ve already got some form of arrangement. And this is really about saying, how do we maximise the impact of the current arrangements, give them a secretariat, give them some guidance and support and make it an inclusive body?”.
The proposed Voice, Calma stresses, “is about giving an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander person’s perspective on that new legislation. But it has no other authority to veto or to direct politicians on how to think. This is only an advisory body and to make comment, so we have formal input by Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander people into legislation that most affects us.”
Calma says Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people “don’t always speak with the same voice and we all have different experiences, we represent different demographics and so forth.”
He rejects the argument that a Voice isn’t needed because there are 11 Indigenous members of the federal parliament. “We can’t expect that the elected politicians […] are going to be able to give a view for all Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander people.”
“What we envisage is that the Voice […] will be able to work with the bureaucrats in providing Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspective to bills, so that by the time [legislation] reaches parliament a lot of the issues might already be sorted out […] Once that relationship with Commonwealth agencies and departments starts to mature, hopefully those departments and agencies will work with the Voice group to look at their existing policies and programmes.”
“The Voice would not be usurping the role of any existing organisation. It would be about partnership, it’s about capacity development, it’s about inclusion.”
“I’m very confident that we could work cooperatively with the parliaments of the day - and that’s both the federal and the state and territory parliaments - for the betterment of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people”.
Michelle Grattan is a Professorial Fellow at the University of Canberra.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle canvass Tuesday’s decision by the Reserve Bank to raise the cash rate again, by 50 basis points to 1.85%.
They also talk about Peter Dutton’s announcement that the opposition will inquire into nuclear power, in a contentious decision as it looks to crafting an energy policy for the next election. Most immediately, the Coalition will vote against the government’s legislation for its 43% 2030 emissions reduction target. The vote in the House of Representatives will be this week.
Meanwhile, after Anthony Albanese’s weekend Garma speech, attention this week also turned to the proposed referendum to put into the constitution an Indigenous “Voice” to parliament.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPNewly-elected senator David Pocock has already made history by becoming the first independent to hold a senate seat for the ACT.
On the progressive side of politics, Pocock is in a potentially powerful position, with the government needing the support of the Greens and just one crossbencher to pass legislation that is opposed by the Coalition.
The issues that matter most to Pocock include “climate and integrity - people want Australia to move forward” – but also housing affordability and the rising cost of living.
“Cost of living is a crisis level across Australia and here in the ACT we’re at the forefront of that. [We’re the] most expensive place to rent, second most expensive to buy. People want genuine engagement from politicians and genuine solutions. And it’s a big task.”
The other issue for him, which he says “is really urgent”, is “territory rights - correcting a long-standing injustice where the territories can’t debate and legislate on voluntary assisted dying, which all the states have now legislated on”.
On whether he has been consulting with the other members of the crossbench Pocock says, “I’ve been talking to everyone on the crossbench. I think the benefit of being an independent is you can speak to people and ultimately I’m in here to get good outcomes for the people of the ACT. And that takes actually consulting, listening, being open to backing good ideas, good solutions, regardless of where they come from.”
Pocock is a former captain of the Wallabies. Asked about the row over the Manley Sea Eagles’ decision to include the rainbow flag on their jersey – which has prompted a revolt by seven players – he says: “Sport is at its best when it’s challenging society to be more inclusive […] we can actually create a space that is more inclusive, that people can come and be who they are regardless of the colour of their skin or their sexuality.
"This is […] really disappointing and it’s going to be devastating for a number of probably mostly young people and older people who are gay, and love their rugby league, to see players take this sort of stand. We’re dealing with real people here.
"We are seeing progress. We’ve still got a long way to go.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
Politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle talk about the opening of the 47th Parliament, the prospects for the climate legislation that seeks to enshrine the 43% emissions reduction target, and Treasurer Jim Chalmers’ economic statement, which will come hard on the heels of another bad inflation number. They also ask: should Scott Morrison be in the House this week?
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
Politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle talk about the opening of the 47th Parliament, the prospects for the climate legislation that seeks to enshrine the 43% emissions reduction target, and Treasurer Jim Chalmers’ economic statement, which will come hard on the heels of another bad inflation number. They also ask: should Scott Morrison be in the House this week?
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
MORGAN SETTE/AAPWith COVID cases surging in a new wave and half the winter still ahead, the news from Health Minister Mark Butler isn’t good.
“We haven’t reached the peak of the wave yet,” he tells the podcast. “Case numbers are going to continue to climb over the coming weeks […] and as a result, hospitalisations are going to continue to climb as well.”
The response, he says, is “a question of balance”.
People accept “that wearing a mask does reduce transmission”, but “we’re not going to move into lockdowns. We’re not going to see very broad-based mandates or government orders.”
Health authorities, as much as political leaders, recognise that “to get a balanced community response, you need to have a mix of targeted mandates”.
“We’ve had them all through the course of this year. So, for example, visitors to aged care facilities, to health facilities, public transport, aeroplanes – either where there is very high risk of transmission or where there is a population at high risk of severe illness.”
“You will continue to see those targeted mandates, I think, for some time. But beyond that, there is really strong advice, clear advice given to people about using the common sense lessons that we’ve learnt over the last couple of years.”
“What we don’t want to end up with is a position where the community thinks government is being heavy handed or just continuing a situation which the community tolerated very well over [..] the first two years of the pandemic, but I think is starting to reach the end of their tether about.”
He defends not extending payments to workers forced to stay at home with COVID. “They are hard decisions for government not to continue those emergency payments. But as a number of us, from the Prime Minister to the Treasurer and myself, have made clear over the last few days, we’ve taken the hard view that we simply can’t continue emergency payments, very expensive emergency payments, forever with the budget that’s one trillion dollars in debt.”
“We’ve all hoped and maybe concluded that maybe this thing’s over. And every time that’s been the case, this virus has mutated again. It’s become more infectious. It keeps coming back. And so we are moving into a different phase of the pandemic where we recognise that the virus is endemic in Australia. It’s deeply established. We’ve got millions of people [who] have had it, hundreds of thousands of people have it today. And we need to find a response to the pandemic that reflects that, that we have moved out of an emergency phase.”
The pandemic has put huge pressure on already faltering hospital systems.
“We are going to have to have a good, long, hard talk to states about the position of the hospital system. The head of Prime Minister and Cabinet and his colleagues that head the premiers’ departments are working on that right now.”
“But we also need to recognise that a lot of the pressure on our hospitals reflects the running down of general practice, the running down of aged care staffing arrangements, and as the Commonwealth has responsibility directly for those areas the best thing we can do in the immediate term to relieve pressure on our hospitals is to rebuild general practice, to strengthen Medicare and to put nurses back into nursing homes.”
Health ministers have agreed to meet on a monthly basis, and “to have a very early meeting dedicated just to these [health] workforce challenges”.
The problems facing the caring economy will be discussed at the September 1-2 jobs summit. “We know that the engine room of jobs growth really over coming years and decades will come from the health sector, the aged care, disability and early childhood sectors. So there will be a strong discussion, strong representation at the jobs summit around the care economy.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Michelle Grattan As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
Politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the rising number of COVID cases, and state governments’ reluctance to bring back mandates such as for mask-wearing. These governments know many of the public have COVID fatigue, when it comes to restrictions. And even the “health advice” doesn’t count for quite what it used to.
Amanda and Michelle also canvass the challenges of the Albanese government’s September 1-2 jobs summit. More immediately, there is the Prime Minister’s latest foreign summitry, in Fiji, where he will be attending the Pacific Islands Forum.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Lukas Coch/AAPNew Education Minister Jason Clare is travelling the country taking soundings in the education sector.
This, he says, is “the best way to get across this big, vast portfolio that stretches from the education of our youngest children right through to the incredible work our brilliant postgraduate people are doing in our universities.
"What am I hearing? What am I learning? I get the impression that a lot of people are desperate for re-engagement with the government.”
Outlining his plans for an Australian Universities Accord, Clare says there’s a desire for the government “to work with our universities, not just our vice-chancellors, but everybody who works in our universities and harness all of the skills and expertise that sit within our universities. I don’t think we do enough of that.”
One of Clare’s main imperatives is to address equity issues. “It’s in our collective interest as a country to make sure that more people – wherever they live, whether their skin is black or white, whether their parents are rich or poor – get access to university, and when they get there that they stay there and get a qualification.”
He strongly argues that “there’s more work we need to do in helping young people get access to university.
"I’m conscious […] that all the answers don’t lie at the front door of the university. The work that we do long before someone is old enough to go to university – that’s critical here. But universities can help answer this question too. What are the things we do from the age a child is born and until they’re five, that set them up for success? Because if we narrow the gap in opportunity there, the impact will be enormous come university.”
The COVID pandemic has had a major impact on Australia’s international education program. “International education was crushed by the pandemic - when the borders shut, that shut out students.”
Australia’s international education program is “an incredible national asset, extraordinarily important for the Australian economy. Before the pandemic [it was] something like $40 billion. [It’s] now about half that. We’ve got to rebuild it. It’s important not just because of the money it makes us, but because of the goodwill that it provides for us.”
There is currently a “backlog of visa applications. International students [are] hungry to get back to study here in Australia, particularly ahead of semester two. And there’s work that we need to do there to assist in that processing task.”
One of the most pressing issues in education is the teacher shortage, which includes the challenge of retention,
“It’s about what we do to encourage people to stay being teachers. In all of the conversations I’ve had with educators, they’ve made this point to me time and time again - that people are feeling burnt out mid-career and that they’re hanging up the boots and leaving teaching. We’re expecting the shortage of teachers to get worse and worse in the years ahead. Something like 4,000 teachers short of what we need by 2025.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
Michelle and Peter Browne from the Politics + Society team discuss Anthony Albanese’s visit to Ukraine, and the desirability of Australia reopening its embassy there as soon as it can. More generally, Australia’s diplomatic presence has slipped and needs to be beefed up.
With the PM now home, he’s off to the flood affected areas of NSW. Labor has learned from the former government’s experience, and has acted quickly to get in resources, seeking to avoid the criticism Scott Morrison faced in the earlier floods.
Meanwhile the Reserve Bank has again increased interest rates, with the cash rate rising by half a percentage point. Also hitting people’s pockets – the latest floods will have some impact on fresh food prices.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
Michelle and Peter Browne from the Politics + Society team discuss Anthony Albanese’s weighing a Ukraine visit and whether Australia will announce more support for that country and reopen its embassy there.
They also canvass the just-released Lowy Institute’s poll, which found a narrow majority of Australians support increased defence spending, and Defence Minister Richard Marles’ announcement extending the terms of the military’s top brass.
Meanwhile Parliament House has been like the first week of school, with new MPs being briefed on how the place works. Crossbenchers are in a row with the government over Albanese’s plan to cut back the additional staff they will get, above the entitlement of government and opposition backbenchers, from four in the last parliament to just one.
Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, is facing extradition to the United States after this was given the green light by the British Government. Assange faces charges of espionage over the publication of classified information about US actions in the Iraq War.
Barrister Greg Barns has worked pro bono on Assagne’s case for the last nine years as part of the Australian Assange campaign.
Barns argues the Assange issue “goes to fundamental questions like freedom of the press and freedom of speech.”
The election of the Albanese government has reignited calls for Australia to do more to try to bring Assange home.
“We’ve certainly been heartened by the approach taken by the new government,” Barns says.
“I think Anthony Albanese himself has been committed for some time now in his public statements and certainly been supportive privately of Assange’s position. He’s made that clear in a number of statements with a theme really that this has gone long enough.”
“There has been a marked change in rhetoric on the part of Mr Albanese, but also I think in his very telling statement that he did not want to pursue this matter through megaphone diplomacy, which we respect, because of course you’re dealing with Australia’s closest ally.”
“He wants to do something, but he wants to do it in a way that respects the friendship between Australia and the United States.”
On what US President Joe Biden should consider when it comes to the relationship with Australia and the issue of Assange, Barns notes Biden has “given a number of speeches now talking about democracy and the importance of democratic values”.
“This is an opportunity to assert those values by saying that freedom of speech and freedom of the press are fundamentally important in a democracy and in the democratic world. And so there are certainly plenty of avenues and plenty of reasons why President Biden might deal with this matter.”
“This case has gone on too long. There are fundamental principles at stake and it’s time to end it.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
Politics editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss Reserve Bank Governor Philip Lowe’s Tuesday statements about the economic outlook. Lowe has again warned of more rate rises, indicating the bank is determined to reduce inflation from a likely 7% at year’s end down to the 2-3% target range. But the Governor says he doesn’t expect Australia to face a recession.
Meanwhile Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neil has visited Sri Lanka this week amid concerns the people smugglers are looking to test Australia’s borders now there’s a new government. Australia, which needs Sri Lanka to be as active as possible in stopping boats leaving, has announced $50 million in aid for that country, directed to its food and health needs.
With Wikileaks founder Julian Assange facing extradition from Britain to the United States, Anthony Albanese is under pressure to make strong representations to have the Australian freed. Albanese is sympathetic, but whether he can achieve any progress is another matter.
The calendar for the new parliament has now been released, showing only four sitting weeks between now and the October budget.
As the energy crisis continues to grip Australia’s east coast with consumers told to limit their consumption and warnings of blackouts Tony Wood, director of the energy program at the Grattan Institute, speaks with Michelle Grattan about why this has happened and what can be done to fix the system.
The crisis is unprecedented, Wood says. “We’ve certainly seen situations where things have got very tight[…] But this sort of extended period when we’ve had major power outages and real stress on the entire system for such a long time has never been seen before.”
He says the crisis could have been minimised if past governments had worked to “address climate change” and “bring on more renewables” as well as all the technology to support a renewables industry.
That being said, Wood points out there are other factors also driving the crisis.
“We still would have had the weather patterns we had in the south, on the east coast of Australia, that caused all the rain and caused all the flooding of the coal mines that interrupted power supply. And of course, we wouldn’t have prevented the Ukraine war and we probably would have had real stress on the gas supply system.”
Wood argues that “things became very complicated very quickly”, as the crisis developed.
On whether the crisis is in part a result of power companies playing the system, he says: “I don’t honestly think the companies were trying to game the system, but I think the commercial arrangements were so complicated [that the Australian Energy Market Operator taking over the system] was the only solution.”
Some have suggested the crisis has been worsened because many assets have been privatised. Wood disagrees. “I don’t think this is a fundamental failure of privatisation […] I do think it’s a fundamental physical problem and government ownership wouldn’t have made much difference.”
“Transitions are always difficult things […] I think we can see where we’re going. It’s got to be a system which is overwhelmingly dominated by renewable energy.”
“In the short term, we are going to manage this transition carefully, which means as we adopt more and more renewables, we’re going to need some of these coal-fired power stations and gas-fired power stations to maintain the stability and the reliability of the system. They should only be there as necessary to support that transition.”
“I have no doubt we can move to net zero by 2050. But remember, it will be net zero. It won’t be absolute zero. And of course, the sooner we start really seriously creating momentum in that direction, the more likely we are to get there and the more likely it is we’ll get there without too much cost.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week Michelle and politics editor Amanda Dunn discuss the apparent early signs of a thaw in China’s attitude towards Australia. But Anthony Albanese has responded by saying China needs to do something tangible – removing trade restrictions it has imposed on Australia.
On the domestic front, Energy Minister Chris Bowen warns of a “bumpy” time ahead for power supplies but says you should keep the heater on (just switch off outside lights if they’re not needed).
Amanda and Michelle also canvass the people smugglers testing the new government on border protection, and Friday’s national cabinet meeting where premiers will be pressing the federal government for more funds for their struggling health systems.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
While Anthony Albanese this week continued to receive a warm reception abroad, at home the new government faced more difficult news. In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass Tuesday’s 50 basis points rise in interest rates – the latest cost of living blow for many families – and Albanese’s trip to deepen Australia’s relationship with Indonesia. They also take a look at the new shadow ministry, announced by Peter Dutton and David Littleproud on Sunday.
Tony Burke is the minister for employment and workplace relations and minister for the arts, as well as the leader of the House of Representatives. One of his first tasks is the government's new submission for the minimum wage case, which will say these workers should not be left behind, as inflation has spiked.
If the Fair Work Commission gives a 5.1% rise, in line with inflation, is there a case for it not flowing through to awards, or all awards?
"I can't imagine a situation where there was no flow-through at all. The commission always has the capacity to work out how the flow-through might happen." He notes one option floated has been a flat dollar increase so the flow-through happened differently.
"The commission will work that through. But certainly there are many awards that are not far from the minimum wage.
"And when we talk about the heroes of the pandemic a lot of those people are on those awards. So while the focus has been specifically minimum wage, I tend to use the term low-paid workers."
On reforming parliament, Burke says he is not trying to get rid of the anger. He doesn't want to turn parliament into "a quiet, polite dinner party".
"The debate is fierce and passionate and real. I think that matters and I think it's good for democracy."
Nor is he in favour of scrapping "dorothy dixers", because the government needs the opportunity to tell the house what it is doing.
But there will be more questions for the larger crossbench, and he flags the government won't so routinely shut down opposition moves for debates.
"Standing Orders say there's one question from the crossbench. With a crossbench as large as what we're now facing, that's just not sustainable."
Without changing that, "you're effectively telling a very large number of Australians that because they didn't vote for a major party, their voice is going to be heard less."
Burke says he has a passion for the arts – he was briefly arts minister at the end of the last Labor government – and laments a lack of a cultural policy in recent years. "In cultural terms, what the arts, events, entertainment sector do matters to who we are as Australians. And that affects your education policy, your health policy, your trade policy, your foreign affairs policy. Nor has there been any guidance that these are serious industries and these are serious jobs." The arts are really important in giving people a capacity to imagine and create, Burke says. They are "really important for us as a nation. I don't think we've had an arts minister see it as a priority in that sense for a long time, and I really want to bring that back".
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass Anthony Albanese’s ministry, with its record number of women in cabinet but one woman, Tanya Plibersek, having her portfolio unexpectedly switched.
Peter Dutton, on being elevated to Liberal leader, flagged he’d pitch to the suburbs and small business. Meanwhile the Nationals showed that holding all the party’s seats (and winning an extra one) doesn’t guarantee the leader keeps his job. Barnaby Joyce was dispatched, in favour of the rather less flamboyant David Littleproud, to the relief of many Liberals.
Meanwhile, Anthony Albanese will be off to Indonesia next week, in his second overseas trip since winning office.
New Treasurer Jim Chalmers with Treasury Secretary Steven Kennedy, Reserve Bank Governor Philip Lowe, and Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chair Gina Cass-Gottlieb at parliament house on Wednesday. Mick Tsikas/AAPNew treasurer Jim Chalmers has been in multiple briefings since Sunday, and the message he sends in this podcast is that he is not going to try to gild the economic lily with the Australian community.
He intends to deliver a “pretty blunt, pretty frank” assessment of Australia’s challenges in an economic statement to parliament soon after it returns in June or July.
Chalmers highlights two particularly “spiky” bits of Australia’s inflation problem that are under “extreme pressure” at the moment – power prices and the building industry as the cost of materials rise.
Ahead of his first budget planned for October, Chalmers reaffirms he is “highly unlikely” to be able to renew the temporary six-month cut in petrol excise when it expires in September.
If there was “more we can responsibly do, we will”, but people shouldn’t assume that the cost of living relief in the March budget will continue forever.
Meanwhile Chalmers and finance minister Katy Gallagher are already combing through the numbers to get savings from areas they identify as wasteful spending.
He also speaks about the employment summit planned for early in Labor’s term – which he wants to have a “broad focus” – and cautions against assuming the unemployment rate (at present 3.9%) will be “on a kind of a permanent downward trajectory” given rising interest rates and international uncertainly.
He raises the prospect of changes to the Reserve Bank’s mandate which at present encompasses full employment and price stability, saying that would a matter for an inquiry he promised in opposition and will shortly set up.
TRANSCRIPT
MICHELLE GRATTAN, HOST: Jim Chalmers, in the hours of briefings you’ve received, what’s been the most surprising thing you’ve learned, something that you hadn’t realised or hadn’t so much appreciated before?
JIM CHALMERS, TREASURER: I think a lot of it has been unsurprising. We’ve got a problem with inflation in this economy that we’re inheriting, and that’s why we’re going to have more interest rate rises according to the Reserve Bank. We’ve got real wages falling and we’ve got a trillion dollars of debt with not enough to show for it. On the specifics of the briefing - and I’ve been sitting with Treasury really since Sunday, in these rolling briefings - and I think that there are two particularly spiky parts of the inflation problem, which are very pressing. Power prices are spiking - which is going to put extra pressure on Australians - and there are acute pressures on our building industry because in lots of instances they signed contracts twelve or eighteen months ago and then we’ve had this spike in inflation under the former Government, which has impacted on building materials and the like, which has put them under extreme pressure. So, the broad contours of the challenge are familiar to me, but there are very specific, very pressing problems that we’ve inherited as well.
GRATTAN: Well, just going to those problems that you named, what can be done or how will you approach them?
CHALMERS: I think our responsibility is to recognise that the challenges are so serious in our economy that we’ve inherited - and not just as a consequence of COVID but in many instances, for example, in wages - as a consequence of what I see as almost a decade of economic mismanagement, is that we have to work out where we can meaningfully make a difference. One of the reasons why Katy Gallagher and I have said we’ll hand down a Budget in October, rather than wait for May, is because we’ve got to make sure the Budget is reoriented away from political spending towards spending where we get an economic dividend. That’s our responsibility and that’s our mission, really. So, we’ve already begun going through the Budget line by line to see where we can improve the quality of spending, we can take money that might have been rorted or wasted in the past and invest it in good economic outcomes: cleaner and cheaper energy, better child care and aged care, investing in advanced manufacturing, getting real wages moving again. That hard work has already begun. You’ll see the fruits of that in the October Budget.
GRATTAN: Just taking power prices though, and looking at the shorter term, rather than the longer term, I know you’ve got investment plans and so on, but what can you do in the immediate term?
CHALMERS: In the last Budget, the Government and the Opposition agreed on a package of cost‑of‑living relief, as you know, which in most cases runs out later in the year, but that is an important part of providing some relief at least in the near term from these cost of living pressures. We need to remember as well that the Reserve Bank and the Treasury have said that this inflation problem that we’ve inherited from the Liberals is going to get worse before it gets better. There’s some near-term support in the economy, and that’s important for people to deal with these challenges. What we’ve tried to focus on is what happens after that support runs out? What responsible, sustainable, enduring cost of living relief can we build in from our economic policies and plans? That’s why our Powering Australia Plan - which is more important in the context of spiking energy costs - is about improving cleaner and cheaper energy into the system, so that we can get those power bills down. Our child care policy, which kicks in next year, is all about getting those bills down substantially. Our cheaper medicines plan is all about getting medicine costs down next year. These sorts of things will make a meaningful difference when the current cost of living relief runs out.
GRATTAN: Won’t you have to deal with some interim relief after this six months’ relief that the former Government gave, or will you let that pass?
CHALMERS: We’ve got to be upfront about it. We will always do the best that we can in the context of these pretty severe Budget constraints that we’re inheriting. When you inherit a trillion dollars in debt, then you have to be upfront with people and say: “We can’t do everything that we would like to do. There’s not room in a Budget heaving with that much debt for even all of the good ideas.” So you need to weigh up your priorities. What I’ve tried to do – and I want to engage the Australian people in a big national conversation about our economic challenges, because I think people do appreciate you can’t do everything as a Government; you need to be realistic and responsible and that’s what we intend to be. And so, when some of that relief runs out, it won’t be possible in a Budget heaving with that much debt, to extend some of those measures forever. I said that before the election, and I say that again after the election. We will work with people responsibly to see what relief we can continue to provide.
GRATTAN: So there will be no extension to the petrol excise cut?
CHALMERS: It’s highly unlikely to see that extended. We said that before the election. We were upfront about it. And after the election…
GRATTAN: That’s still your position?
CHALMERS: …that’s still our position. We will be handing down a Budget in October. If there’s more that we can responsibly do, we will, but people shouldn’t assume that the cost of living relief that was in the Budget earlier in the year will continue forever.
GRATTAN: Now, you’ve talked a lot about the need for real wages growth. How can you get wages growth up?
CHALMERS: I think the most important place to start is to get a good outcome out of the Fair Work Commission for the lowest paid workers. We’re talking here in many cases about the heroes of the pandemic making $20.33 an hour during a cost of living crisis, which is obviously not acceptable to us and we said a lot about that during the election campaign. A great place to start if you want to get real wages moving again…
GRATTAN: Just on that, there was a lot of talk about whether you put that 5.1 per cent inflation rise into the submission, as to what you wanted. Will you actually have a number in that submission and when will that new submission go in?
CHALMERS: Yes, so it’s important to understand that the process is already well underway. They received submissions before the election. Clearly, there’s an opportunity for a new Government to submit another submission, and I will be talking with Tony Burke and Anthony Albanese about the best way to do that. But our view is already incredibly clear. There’s nobody at the Fair Work Commission who hasn’t heard that our position is that we want to see low-wage workers keep up with the skyrocketing cost of living. That’s a good place to start. We’ve got broader plans on real wages. The best way to get real wages growing is to train people for higher wage opportunities, is to make it easier for parents to work more and earn more if they want to, and to invest in industries where there are secure, well‑paid jobs, like advanced manufacturing and the care economy and the like. If you do all of those things, you do give yourself a chance to get real wages growing again.
GRATTAN: Well, what about leading by example? The wage growth in the public sector has fallen behind the wage growth in the private sector. What about a wage rise for public servants?
CHALMERS: Katy Gallagher is obviously the responsible Minister there. She’s the Minister for Public Service as well as the Minister for Finance and so I don’t want to kind of pre-empt any considerations or conversations that Katy might be having. My priority is in the economy more broadly in the ways that I’ve just described. I think real wages falling in the way that they have been is, in many ways, the defining challenge in the economy because it combines this high and rising inflation during this cost of living crisis, with the fact that people are falling further and further behind. It’s not good economic management if people can’t put food on the table and get ahead. If I think about what I’ve inherited from Josh Frydenberg, a lot of people focus on the trillion dollars in debt, which is very important. A lot of people focus on inflation, very important. But where it all comes together and where our choices are constrained, is when it comes to people falling further and further behind. We want the national economy to grow, but we want people to actually have a slice of the action as it does.
GRATTAN: Labor has promised a jobs summit as one of its first acts. Now, what will this do and will this be one of those sorts of quick and dirty summits that everybody comes, talks for an afternoon and that’s it, or will it be more like the Hawke Summit of 1983 when, in fact, people were here for nearly a week, I think, maybe a whole week, and there was a lot of pretty serious debate?
CHALMERS: We want it to be a serious discussion. I think there’s a really substantial appetite in the Australian community - certainly in the business community, the unions, the community sector, employers and employees, and businesses of all sizes - there’s genuinely an appetite for us to get together and work out where the common ground is. I thought – the thing that really fired me up about Anthony Albanese’s victory speech on Saturday night - is when he talked about the common ground where we plant our aspirations together, and that’s what the Summit would be about. We also need to understand that even with the unemployment rate having fallen in welcome ways, there’s still challenges around skill shortages, real wages, the gender pay gap. There’s a whole range of challenges in our labour market, which we’ll only solve if we work together. I think Anthony is uniquely placed to provide that kind of leadership. He is by nature an inclusive person. He’s an empowering person. You see that in the way that he treats us in his own team. We want to tap that spirit, we want to tap that appetite around Australia, see what we can agree and work out together. The logistics of the Summit will be worked out in due course, and we’ll have more to say about it, but that’s the spirit that we want to capture.
GRATTAN: But it would be a summit of more than one day?
CHALMERS: I’m not sure, to be honest Michelle. Those details haven’t been worked out. We know what we want from it, and we’ll work backwards from that.
GRATTAN: What you want is a set of ideas across the economy or a more narrow focus?
CHALMERS: We want a broad focus because, as I said, I think too often people think that the unemployment rate tells the full story of the labour market, and it just doesn’t. You want it as low as possible, you welcome it when it falls, but you want people to understand that there’s a lot of issues at play in the labour market. We’ve had a lot of job insecurity. We’ve got the wages share hasn’t kept up. We’ve had a whole bunch of issues around gender pay. So, ideally, given people’s interest and appetite to work together, ideally, it would have a relatively broad agenda.
GRATTAN: We’ll come back to the labour market, but just on this question of inflation - how high do you think it will go? Do you think that the estimates that we’ve heard earlier need to be updated or are being updated?
CHALMERS: Both the Reserve Bank and the Treasury have substantially lifted their expectations for inflation and both of those institutions think that inflation will get worse before it gets better, because it’s on a trajectory that can’t easily be turned around. So, even between the Budget only a couple of months ago and the Pre‑Election Outlook the expectations for inflation have changed substantially. Inflation is high and rising. The Reserve Bank has said publicly there will be more interest rate rises. We are already on that trajectory throughout the course of this year, and so the inflation problem was getting worse, not better, when the Government changed hands.
GRATTAN: Are those estimates still changing or not?
CHALMERS: Well, they don’t get updated, you know, kind of weekly, but clearly…
GRATTAN: Only for a new Government.
CHALMERS: Clearly, people’s expectations are inflation has been getting worse not better. But what I would like to do, what I intend to do, is to deliver a pretty detailed economic statement to the parliament when it returns. Whether that’s in June or July, that’s not clear yet, but I want to give a pretty blunt, pretty frank assessment of our economic challenges to the parliament as part of bringing the nation into our confidence about these challenges and inflation is a huge part of that story. Obviously, in the usual way, the forecast will be updated in October.
GRATTAN: So, as things stand though, we’re headed to inflation of, I think, it was more than six per cent; is that right?
CHALMERS: That’s what the Reserve Bank and the Treasury have been saying publicly, and if that needs to be updated, it will be.
GRATTAN: In terms of the October Budget, what sort of things can we expect from that?
CHALMERS: I think, most importantly, the October Budget will do two main things. It will implement our commitments because they’re important to securing the recovery and trying to grow the economy without adding to inflation and getting real wages moving again. So, that’s a big part of the story. But we have already begun going through the Budget line by line to see where we can redirect that unproductive, wasteful spending into areas where we get an economic dividend. We’ve begun that work. Katy has with Finance, and I have with Treasury, already, and so ideally, the October Budget will see the fruits of some of that work.
GRATTAN: It sounds sort of benign, I must say, when you say, “Well, we’re going to get rid of all the rorts and we’re just going to have fewer contractors and so on”, but for meaningful reviews of spending, aren’t you going to have to really go much deeper than that? Aren’t there going to be some nasties in that Budget?
CHALMERS: Well, I wouldn’t necessarily describe it like that. But clearly, if we find opportunities to trim spending where we’re not getting an economic dividend for the Australian people, then we will grab those. Because you can’t ignore the fact that for the first time in the history of this country, an incoming Government is inheriting a trillion dollars of debt, so we take that challenge seriously. Katy Gallagher and I released, in Parliament House during the election campaign , $11.5 billion in Budget improvements – a combination of trimming spending, a combination of unwinding reports and waste, and a combination of multinational tax reform – and that does not have a lot of attention Michelle, but $11.5 billion is a pretty decent start.
GRATTAN: Yes, but what’s the deficit?
CHALMERS: Yes, but it’s a pretty decent start. You have to begin somewhere. We need to be upfront with all of your listeners and say nobody can flick a switch and make a trillion dollars of debt disappear, but you have to start. You have to take the challenge seriously and that’s what we’re doing.
GRATTAN: Might you begin, for example, with the National Party’s dams. They secured some $6 billion for the dams in the election. Is this the sort of thing you’d look at or would you want some supporting analysis for the benefit of that spending?
CHALMERS: Obviously, the cost–benefit analysis and the business case is really important. Take Hells Gate Dam, for example, in North Queensland. We have said that you could save about $500 million if you take the time to do the business case properly, and that means starting a year later. So that’s a good example of the type of thing that you’re talking about. We want to build infrastructure in the regions. If we want the national economy to recover strongly, the regions need to be a big part of the story, but that means getting maximum bang for buck for these investments. Clearly, part of our task is to make sure that we are getting an economic dividend not just a political dividend for the National Party, which has been the approach for too long.
GRATTAN: Now, one of your meetings today, I think, will be with the Reserve Bank Governor; is that right? And you’ve promised an inquiry into the way the bank has been doing its job. What do you want to get out of that inquiry?
CHALMERS: Roday I will be meeting with the Reserve Bank Governor, but also the heads of all the major regulators - including the Energy Regulator, APRA and ASIC - and I will be meeting with them in Canberra today. I’ve known and worked with Governor Lowe for some time, and I want to engage him in a conversation about this Reserve Bank review. I want to do it in a collaborative way. I’m not interested in people taking shots at the Governor or at the Bank, I’m interested in making sure that we get the monetary policy regime right and that it interacts with Government policy effectively. So I will be talking with Governor Lowe about that. I’ve had a handful of conversations with him about it already and before too long we hope to be able to set the parameters of that review. It’s really important, there hasn’t been a review like that for some time. We’ve had this remarkable period in our economy. We’ve had historically low interest rates that are rising now, and so we want to have a look at the regime and make sure it’s fit for purpose and it’s delivering what we need it to for the Australian people.
GRATTAN: Well, it’s certainly struggled with its forecasts recently, hasn’t it? Is the entire way that it’s run up for grabs? For example, would you want to see more economists on the board?
CHALMERS: We’ll settle the terms of reference before too long, and clearly those sorts of issues will be part of the conversation, but how specific we want to be with that we’ll have more to say about it at a later stage. The composition of the Board is important, but also the making sure that the targets are appropriate, the objectives are appropriate, the intersection between monetary policy and fiscal policy is appropriate. So that may be a consideration, but it will be much broader than that.
GRATTAN: Coming back to the labour market, are you committed to driving unemployment down further? It’s now got a three in front of it. Is it indeed possible to get it much further down?
CHALMERS: Well, it remains to be seen. Obviously, we want to drive unemployment as low as we can, but we also want to deal with long‑term unemployment, we want to deal with some of those other issues we’ve already talked about - wages, gender, job insecurity - and we’ve got some plans around all of that. We want the unemployment rate as low as it can be. It may be that it bounces around a little bit as interest rates rise. We shouldn’t assume that it’s on a permanent downward trajectory. We’ve got rising interest rates, we’ve got these big challenges with inflation, we’ve got some international uncertainty as well. So we need to be realistic about all of that. But if we can get unemployment down as low as possible that’s a good thing, and we want to satisfy those other economic objectives too.
GRATTAN: Employers are obviously screaming about the difficulty of getting workers. What do you see as the answer to that apart from your agenda to improve skills, which again will take a while?
CHALMERS: Yeah.
GRATTAN: What about the here and now?
CHALMERS: Well, skills are the most important part of it. We’ve got a big commitment there on fee‑free TAFE, whether it’s skill shortages, but I think that’s the most important part.
GRATTAN: That doesn’t help the man with the coffee shop.
CHALMERS: Understood. I think child care is a big part of this story. We’ve actually got this enormous pool of untapped workers who are discouraged from working more because it costs so much to put kids into child care. I know from personal experience what the childcare system is like, and for too many families they’re priced out of it. For too many families it doesn’t make sense to work more because the extra money you earn just goes into child care. So that’s one of the primary reasons we see child care reform not as social security but as a key economic reform to boost participation, in the economic jargon, which really just means we want to make it easier for people. If they want to work more and earn more, we want to make it worth their while, and that will make a difference to skills shortages and labour shortages. Clearly, migration is part of the story. Clearly, there’s a lot of good ideas floating around about how we get older workers back into work, part‑time perhaps. So it will take a combination of all of those things, but I genuinely believe that training and child care are two of the most important planks. I feel like too often child care is kind of dismissed as some kind of non-economic thing. Obviously, it eases cost‑of‑living pressures. Obviously, it’s good for kids to have them in the early education system. Parents notice the difference in social skills, in counting and reading and all the rest of it, it gives them a head-start as they head into kindy or preschool. That’s all part of it. But it’s a hard‑edged, hard‑headed key economic reform so that businesses can find more workers as well.
GRATTAN: Of course, there’s also the argument that if you have families, both parents, working too much, you create other problems, don’t you? This whole family–work balance doesn’t operate very well.
CHALMERS: Obviously that’s a challenge and we want families to be able to choose subject to their own circumstances. That’s what it’s really about. We don’t want child care to be so expensive that people have no choice. We want them to be able to choose what’s best for them. And I think we learned a lot about working family and home responsibilities during the pandemic, during the lockdowns; and during this kind of hybrid economy, where people are doing a combination of working from home and going to work. We learned a lot about what we really value. Superficially, we think it wasn’t bad a couple of days a week if you could to kind of work on Zoom, wandering around in trackie daks around your house and all the rest of it. But the big benefit of it was you get to spend more time with your kids. So, I think every family, in one way or another, is kind of weighing up: what’s the best version of this for our own circumstances? And what we would like to do is give people a broader array of choices by making it easier for them if they want to work more and earn more, to make the child care system more conducive to that.
GRATTAN: Just finally, on this question of immigration, it does seem that in recent months both sides of politics have been a bit wary, a bit coy, about talking about what sort of immigration levels are most desirable. We had, before the pandemic, obviously, unease about very high
immigration in some circles at least. Now we desperately need more immigrants. What’s your view of this and how do you go about scaling up immigration without putting too much pressure on other things like housing, for example?
CHALMERS: Yeah, those are the considerations we need to balance. One of the tragedies, frankly, of losing Kristina Keneally from our team , was she was doing a heap of work on – and all of us were doing a heap of work on - how do we make sure that as the migration system gets up and running again after it was closed down - effectively for a couple of years - how do we make sure that it’s the best version of the system, the best version between temporary and permanent, the best balance between skilled and unskilled, the best balance between all the family reunion and all the rest of it, so that we’re getting the best outcomes for our people and for our country? Now, I am personally a huge believer in migration.
GRATTAN: “Big Australia” man?
CHALMERS: Nobody uses those terms, but I know from my own community, migration strengthens our society, but also as someone involved in the economy, how it strengthens our economy. But we need to make it right and we need to make sure that we’ve got the settings perfectly right. I talk to business a lot and what I say to them privately and what I’m happy to say to all of your listeners, is that obviously there is a role for skilled migration, but it should never be a substitute for training. We shouldn’t have this kind of false binary between you either choosing migration or you choosing training. Obviously, it’s a combination of those two things, in addition to child care and some of these other issues we’ve talked about. That’s how we get the right mix of workers in the economy. We want to be responsible and reasonable about that. We were having discussions with the business community before the election and we will after the election as well, but migration will play a role.
GRATTAN: Jim Chalmers, thank you very much for being our first Minister in the new Government to talk with our podcast. And thank you to my producer Ellen Duffy. We will be back with another interview soon, but that’s all for now.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, U.S. President Joe Biden, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida at the QUAD Leaders Meeting KYDPL KYODO/AAPAs well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass new Prime Minster Anthony Albanese’s climate pitch to the Quad, China’s reaction to the Labor government, and what the election defeat has done to the Coalition.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Every election is unique, but each also presents comparisons and contrasts with elections past.
In this podcast, Australian National University history professor Frank Bongiorno gives his insights into the current battle but also takes the long views of campaigns.
Bongiorno talks about the role of leaders in what’s often dubbed the “presidential” election age (“a kind of proxy for judgements about policy”) and how Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese are presenting themselves.
The debate on wages and inflation has overtones of the arguments in the 1970s and 1980s, but “sort of minus the policy”.
This was supposed to be a “khaki” election, but the khaki has faded during the campaign, perhaps unsurprisingly. Most often, Australians are solidly focused on domestic issues when they vote.
The “teals” have been a special feature of this campaign. But are they a new version of other breakaways, like the Australian Democrats of old?
The rise of voter disillusionment is a feature of recent elections, as is the detachment of voters from the major parties. Not so long ago, about seven in ten voters voted at each election the same way as they had voted throughout their lives, Bongiorno says, based on the ANU’s Australian Election Study. But now it is just under four in ten. “That means there’s a growing number of voters whose support is biddable, and the independents and minor parties are benefiting from that kind of loosening of the hold of the major parties over the voters.”
Lukas Coch/AAPEvery election is unique, but each also presents comparisons and contrasts with elections past.
In this podcast, Australian National University history professor Frank Bongiorno gives his insights into the current battle but also takes the long views of campaigns.
Bongiorno talks about the role of leaders in what’s often dubbed the “presidential” election age (“a kind of proxy for judgements about policy”) and how Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese are presenting themselves.
The debate on wages and inflation has overtones of the arguments in the 1970s and 1980s, but “sort of minus the policy”.
This was supposed to be a “khaki” election, but the khaki has faded during the campaign, perhaps unsurprisingly. Most often, Australians are solidly focused on domestic issues when they vote.
The “teals” have been a special feature of this campaign. But are they a new version of other breakaways, like the Australian Democrats of old?
The rise of voter disillusionment is a feature of recent elections, as is the detachment of voters from the major parties. Not so long ago, about seven in ten voters voted at each election the same way as they had voted throughout their lives, Bongiorno says, based on the ANU’s Australian Election Study. But now it is just under four in ten. “That means there’s a growing number of voters whose support is biddable, and the independents and minor parties are benefiting from that kind of loosening of the hold of the major parties over the voters.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the Coalition’s “super” housing pitch, five seats to eyeball on Saturday night, and what would happen if the parliamentary numbers were “hung”.
Danielle Wood is the CEO of the Grattan Institute, an independent think tank, Its purpose is to research and advocate policies to improve Australians’ lives.
Wood laments the dearth of policy debate in this election.
“There was a lot of optimism when we were coming out of COVID that this might be a period of genuine policy reform. It certainly was a period that laid bare a lot of challenges. We saw trust in government go up and there was a lot of talk of building back better in the sense that government might do some of those big things. But clearly, that’s not the election we’re in right now,” she says.
“We are now in a world where we’ve come out of COVID with government much bigger than what we went in. So we’ve baked in this higher spending on aged care, higher spending on defence, a higher spending on the NDIS.
"In fact, size of governments increase about 2% of GDP, which is pretty extraordinary. Yet we’ve had no conversation about how we pay for that.”
Climate change is to the fore in the minds of many economists as well as voters, and a central feature of “teal” candidates’ campaigns. But the government and Labor are not talking about it a great deal in the campaign.
“I think it’s really interesting to see economists so galvanised by that. We need to get on the path to net zero by 2050. Both major parties have signed on to that as a target. That is a massive economic transition. And frankly, if we don’t start making serious headway over the next decade, we’re going to leave ourselves with a very large and very disruptive task through the 2030s and forties.”
Anthony Albanese this week found himself under attack after advocating a 5.1% rise (reflecting the latest inflation figure) in the minimum wage. Wood says: “Locking in very high wage rises right now is not the right answer. But that’s not to say that wages growing at 2% is a good answer either. So it’s somewhere in between.”
Australia needs to increase productivity, but where should the focus be? “I would like to see a focus on education. There are things we can do in health as well, such as primary care reform, which could make a big difference […] And remember, that’s a big area in the economy and spending.”
Should we be more worried than we are about Australia’s debt level? “I’m not worried about the current levels of debt in terms of sustainability. Obviously we’ve come out of COVID with much higher debt levels than we went in with. But based on at least the current interest profile, it’s very serviceable and sustainable.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass how the interest rate rise has played against the government, Scott Morrison defending Katherine Deves (again), the major parties’ keeping the climate change issue low key, “gotcha” questions, and the coming Liberal launch.
In the Wentworth Project, sponsored by the University of Canberra’s Centre for Change Governance and The Conversation, we are tapping into voters’ opinions in this seat, which appears to be on a knife edge.
In this podcast we talk with the two main candidates, Liberal incumbent Dave Sharma and “teal” independent Allegra Spender, as well as with Kerryn Phelps, the former independent member in the seat, who has mentored Spender and is on the advisory council of Climate 200, which is donating to her campaign.
Sharma says “Kerryn Phelps was a genuine independent candidate or a more traditional independent candidate. […] This independent candidate is really sort of a franchise or party operation.”
Sharma casts the teals, who are challenging Liberals in a range of city seats, as reflecting “populism as a political force”.
“People think populism only belongs to the right because of Donald Trump. I think the independents are basically harnessing a populist mood, which is similar to what Donald Trump did, which is ‘a curse on all your houses.’”
Morrison is not campaigning in the teal seats (though he goes to Wentworth to visit his mother). Asked how much the Prime Minister is a drag on the vote, Sharma stresses the team. “Scott Morrison is the leader of our team and the spokesperson for the team. But it’s also got a range of ministers in there who control different portfolios and we’re putting ourselves forward, and I certainly am here, as a team.”
Spender says “there’s a feeling amongst the community that I hear, that they feel that the parties are looking after themselves first and the community after”.
On a possible hung parliament, she says, “I would be willing to work with either party, or major party on supply and confidence, because I want stable government”. She would talk first to whichever side had the greatest number of seats.
Wentworth is seeing enormous spending. Spender says her campaign will probably spend between $1.3 and $1.5 million (with something under 30% expected to come from Climate 200).
She favours caps on spending and donations. “I’d like to see a cap in what individuals or companies can give. I’d like to see real time information in terms of what has been given. And then I think at the same time, you need to look at political advertising and how that is used because the government just spent $30 million spruiking their clean energy credentials […] immediately before the election being called.”
Kerryn Phelps says of Wentworth: “I’ve had a medical practise in Double Bay for around two decades, and so I know the community well. It’s generally seen as an affluent community, but it’s actually quite diverse. There are clearly strong beliefs about the economy and business. And so a candidate would need to have business experience. But the people also have a very strong social conscience. They’re very environmentally aware. And I think that’s particularly highlighted by the fact that it’s bounded by the harbour and the ocean.”
Allegra Spender/Facebook; Dave Sharma/FacebookIn the Wentworth Project, sponsored by the University of Canberra’s Centre for Change Governance and The Conversation, we are tapping into voters’ opinions in this seat, which appears to be on a knife edge.
In this podcast we talk with the two main candidates, Liberal incumbent Dave Sharma and “teal” independent Allegra Spender, as well as with Kerryn Phelps, the former independent member in the seat, who has mentored Spender and is on the advisory council of Climate 200, which is donating to her campaign.
Sharma says “Kerryn Phelps was a genuine independent candidate or a more traditional independent candidate. […] This independent candidate is really sort of a franchise or party operation.”
Sharma casts the teals, who are challenging Liberals in a range of city seats, as reflecting “populism as a political force”.
“People think populism only belongs to the right because of Donald Trump. I think the independents are basically harnessing a populist mood, which is similar to what Donald Trump did, which is ‘a curse on all your houses.’”
Morrison is not campaigning in the teal seats (though he goes to Wentworth to visit his mother). Asked how much the Prime Minister is a drag on the vote, Sharma stresses the team. “Scott Morrison is the leader of our team and the spokesperson for the team. But it’s also got a range of ministers in there who control different portfolios and we’re putting ourselves forward, and I certainly am here, as a team.”
Spender says “there’s a feeling amongst the community that I hear, that they feel that the parties are looking after themselves first and the community after”.
On a possible hung parliament, she says, “I would be willing to work with either party, or major party on supply and confidence, because I want stable government”. She would talk first to whichever side had the greatest number of seats.
Wentworth is seeing enormous spending. Spender says her campaign will probably spend between $1.3 and $1.5 million (with something under 30% expected to come from Climate 200).
She favours caps on spending and donations. “I’d like to see a cap in what individuals or companies can give. I’d like to see real time information in terms of what has been given. And then I think at the same time, you need to look at political advertising and how that is used because the government just spent $30 million spruiking their clean energy credentials […] immediately before the election being called.”
Kerryn Phelps says of Wentworth: “I’ve had a medical practise in Double Bay for around two decades, and so I know the community well. It’s generally seen as an affluent community, but it’s actually quite diverse. There are clearly strong beliefs about the economy and business. And so a candidate would need to have business experience. But the people also have a very strong social conscience. They’re very environmentally aware. And I think that’s particularly highlighted by the fact that it’s bounded by the harbour and the ocean.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the Reserve Bank’s increase in interest rates, and which side wins or loses from it, as cost of living is centre stage in the election battle. They also discuss Anthony Albanese’s launch, and the implications for the Liberals if Josh Frydenberg were to lose in Kooyong.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the Reserve Bank’s increase in interest rates, and which side wins or loses from it, as cost of living is centre stage in the election battle. They also discuss Anthony Albanese’s launch, and the implications for the Liberals if Josh Frydenberg were to lose in Kooyong.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
After Wednesday’s larger-than-expected inflation number, all attention has turned to the Reserve Bank’s meeting on Tuesday. If the bank moves next week, it will be the first time there’s been a rise in a campaign since 2007, the election John Howard lost.
Pointing to recent rate rises overseas, independent economist Saul Eslake says: “If the Reserve Bank were to do nothing in the face of this much sharper-than-expected acceleration in inflation, it would be leaving itself open to a charge of acting in a political way, which would undermine its credibility for an extended period.
"So I think the Reserve Bank really has to raise interest rates at its meeting next week.” If it doesn’t, Governor Philip Lowe would require “a very persuasive explanation”.
If the bank didn’t act next week, it could subsequently have to make a 75 basis points rise in one hit, “which would be a considerable shock to the mortgage-paying population in particular, but I think for small businesses and a whole lot of other participants in Australia’s economy more broadly.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the latest (static) polls, apparently unaffected by Anthony Albanese’s COVID absence, or indeed by much else in the campaign so far.
They also discuss shock jock Ray Hadley’s extraordinary shouty assault on Albanese, how the very serious issue of the Solomons-China security pact is playing into the campaign, and whether controversial Liberal candidate Katherine Deves is really all about seats other than Warringah, the one she is contesting.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the latest (static) polls, apparently unaffected by Anthony Albanese’s COVID absence, or indeed by much else in the campaign so far.
They also discuss shock jock Ray Hadley’s extraordinary shouty assault on Albanese, how the very serious issue of the Solomons-China security pact is playing into the campaign, and whether controversial Liberal candidate Katherine Deves is really all about seats other than Warringah, the one she is contesting.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Andrew Wilkie, MP for the Tasmanian seat of Clark, has “lived” a hung parliament. In 2010, Wilkie did a formal “deal” to support Julia Gillard. When later she didn’t deliver on his key issue of gambling reform, he broke it off.
In this podcast Wilkie explains how he would approach the situation if the election produces no clear winner. No deals. But maybe a letter on giving confidence and supply.
He suggests independent candidates – who are being assailed with questions about which side they would support in a hung parliament – should contact him for a chat about how to approach that situation, and the role of crossbenchers generally.
“If they give me a call and ask what I think, I’ll tell them how I’ve navigated my way through the last 12 years and what my community has thought of it,” he says.
“I’ve explained how I’m going to approach things, and it’s always been well received by my community. In fact, my primary vote and two-party preferred has increased in every election. So whatever formulation I’m using seems to work.
"It might be something that some of these new independent candidates might want to just observe and think about. I think it is useful to give some indication of your thought processes,” Wilkie says.
“I see my role as being a constructive one. It’s to ensure we have an effective government for the next three years. My job isn’t to pull down any party or pull down any government. So if the Australian community elects a group of people and no party has an absolute majority, I will look for ways to be constructive.”
Wilkie strongly defends the role of crossbenchers, rejecting Scott Morrison’s argument that a hung parliament would make for instability. Their role can be useful even when there is majority government, Wilkie says.
He concedes that when crossbenchers are in a position of power – as under Gillard – their electorates get favoured treatment and that this isn’t “fair” (although he admits he was happy to seek and take the funds).
He recalls favourably Anthony Albanese’s performance as manager of government business in the Gillard government. “I credit him with being very skilled and effective at corralling the crossbench and ensuring stability of the parliament.”
“If Anthony Albanese finds himself negotiating with the crossbench, he’s got form. And I suppose I can probably say the same about Scott Morrison over the last few years, because he’s been almost in minority for most of it, and he’s managed to keep what I’ll call the independent crossbenchers pretty much in line.”
As for the election campaigning, “In my opinion, this is the worst campaign I’ve observed as far as the mudslinging and the dishonesty. I mean, there used to be some limits on the dishonesty of the political parties in the candidates, but there seem to be no limits at this election.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the controversy surrounding Katherine Deves, the Prime Minister’s hand-picked candidate for Warringah, who posted transphobic comments on social media. Scott Morrison is standing by her in the strongest terms, refusing persistent calls from within the Liberal party for her dumping.
Morrison and Anthony Albanese have both said they won’t do deals with independents to form government if there is a hung parliament. Michelle and Amanda discuss what really would happen if the election produced no clear winner.
As the campaign continues, COVID is hardly getting a mention – yet case numbers are large and death numbers substantial. Why is there this apparent lack of concern?
Climate is a major issue with many voters, on all the polling. But so far it hasn’t been as dominant in the campaigning as we might have expected – indicating, in part, how the attention issues get varies in different parts of the country.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
In this episode, Michelle Grattan speaks with Joe Hockey about his newly-released memoir titled Diplomatic.
Hockey, treasurer in the Abbott government and former Australian ambassador to the United States, picked early that Donald Trump had a good prospect of becoming president and reached out to his team, something that went down badly at the time with the foreign affairs bureaucracy back in Canberra.
But Hockey says: "Diplomacy is just about human relations. It's countries dealing on the same basis with each other as human beings. So you're never going to get on well with someone you don't know. You're actually going to have to engage."
Of Trump's successor, Hockey says: "I think Joe Biden has aged quite a bit in the presidency. He's only been president for just over a year. He's really shown he hasn't had the energy that you would expect of someone as president of the United States."
Also, "he's run a very left wing agenda, and that's completely stunned – completely stunned – middle America, because they thought he was a safe, middle-of-the-road sort of person.
"America is just not tuned into that. They're not buying that."
Speaking about the differences between US and Australian politics, Hockey highlights the significance of compulsory voting in this country. "I think the challenge in the United States is, you know, firstly, you try and get your own people to vote. And the more extreme you are, the more you villainise, and radicalise your opponents. It's easier to get people to come out and vote for you if they're against something.
"We don't have that battle for the extremes, and I think that's really, really important," he says.
"The political ads and what people say about each other in the United States has no filter, has no boundaries. And as a result, it becomes more fractious, becomes much more aggressive. And I think it's really, really important that proper defamation laws [exist] that allow someone to go in and protect their reputation so that people cannot make ridiculous, false accusations against others."
And Hockey's prediction for May 21? "I think it's just too close to call, really. I genuinely feel that both parties have a pathway to victory. And then, as so often the case, as events unfold during the campaign, we'll get a clearer picture of which way [...] the events are breaking."
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the fallout from Anthony Albanese’s lapse when asked to nominate the unemployment level and the cash rate.
Meanwhile Scott Morrison, with poor popularity, has drawn on voters’ experience with their dentist: it doesn’t matter whether you like them – it’s about their competence.
They also discuss the strange story of Alan Tudge, who remains in cabinet and education minister, albeit without ministerial salary or duties, despite Morrison earlier saying “he is not seeking to return to the frontbench, and I support his decision”.
Finally, they canvass whether this election will ever turn to actual policy issues.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn canvass the fallout from Anthony Albanese’s lapse when asked to nominate the unemployment level and the cash rate.
Meanwhile Scott Morrison, with poor popularity, has drawn on voters’ experience with their dentist: it doesn’t matter whether you like them – it’s about their competence.
They also discuss the strange story of Alan Tudge, who remains in cabinet and education minister, albeit without ministerial salary or duties, despite Morrison earlier saying “he is not seeking to return to the frontbench, and I support his decision”.
Finally, they canvass whether this election will ever turn to actual policy issues.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn talk about Tuesday’s court ruling in the NSW Liberals’ factional fighting. It has given Scott Morrison a get-out-of-jail card. But it still leaves a divided party that is poorly placed to fight a campaign in a state where the government needs to win seats. They also canvass the continuing damage to the prime minister by the focus on the issue of his character.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
CHRIS CRERAR/AAPWith the announcement of a polling date imminent, Michelle Grattan speaks with the ABC’s election analyst Antony Green about the national electoral map, with its variations between the states.
The latest round of opinion polls are strong for Labor, but there’s still a long way to got before polling day.
Green says:“I think if the opinion polls are correct, then the swing will be large enough for Labor to win. The question is, will the polls tighten? The polls are showing bigger leads for Labor than last time. But of course we saw in 2019 that the polls seemed to narrow, but they also were just inaccurate.”
Green also canvasses the Senate prospects for the Greens and for Pauline Hanson. Then there’s Nick Xenophon, for years a major crossbench player, who is seeking to make a comeback to the Senate.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
The tax offset for low and middle income earners (LMITO) will not be extended beyond this financial year, so does this amount to a tax increase for these people?
Treasurer Josh Frydenberg tells the podcast the offset was a “temporary measure” that was extended as fiscal stimulus, due to the pressures on the budget from COVID. It’s being removed “now that the economy is normalising”.
With unemployment set to fall below 4%, Frydenberg also says “what we think is going to happen is upward pressure on wages”.
Annual wage growth is at 2.3% but Frydenberg says there’s a “broader indicator of earnings across the economy [Average Earnings in the National Accounts (AENA)] which has been higher than where the wage price index is. It’s expected to get to 5% this year, which is above where inflation is at. That’s a broader earnings indicator, which takes into account bonuses, promotions, people moving jobs and the like.”
The treasurer, who holds the Victorian seat of Kooyong, is one of the Liberal members being targeted by “teal” independent candidates running on issues such as climate and the need for a federal integrity commission.
Frydenberg – who is more popular than Scott Morrison in the “leafy” seats – will be used to campaign where these candidates are strong. “I will give as much support as I can to my colleagues who face those opponents.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn talk about treasurer Josh Frydenberg's 'big spend' budget, Anthony Albanese's coming budget reply speech, a Liberal senator's scathing review of Scott Morrison, and what the parties' key issues will be at the election that's about to be called.
The opposition is criticising the government’s “giveaway” budget but, predictably, with the election close, is not opposing its cost of living package, which includes a temporary cut in full excise and billions of dollars for low and middle income taxpayers, pensioners and welfare recipients.
Jim Chalmers is shadow treasurer, and he tells this podcast, “It’s a vote seeker budget in the sense that it’s got a shelf life of six or seven weeks.
"The government is temperamentally incapable of seeing beyond the election, and that’s the difference [with Labor]. I think there was a real appetite in the community for something that said, ‘we’ve been through a lot together. And what does the future look like?’”
Chalmers argues voters will “see through it in the same way they see through the prime minister”.
Like the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg, Chalmers rules out extending the petrol excise cut beyond its September expiry date.
“I’ve said, to be upfront to the Australian people, it’s difficult to see a government of either political persuasion being able to afford to extend that excise relief forever. We’re just being upfront about it because we believe in being responsible with the people’s money.”
He dodges when asked about a Labor government’s response, after the budget didn’t renew the tax offset for low and middle income earners. But the signal is that Labor would not seek to restore it.
“We don’t want to pre-empt decisions that a future government may take,” he says.
“The reality is this government is going to the election with the worst set of books that any government has ever taken to an election in Australia. There’s not room in our alternative budget, even for all of the good ideas. And so we’ve got to prioritise and sequence and make sure that whatever we do is delivering maximum bang for buck.
"This is the inheritance if government changed hands and so my responsibility if I was the treasurer […] is to weigh up all of those pressures to implement our election commitments.”
As the devastating war in Ukraine continues, Michelle Grattan speaks with ABC journalist Sarah Ferguson about her experiences in reporting her Four Corners episode Despair and Defiance – how she was able to capture this story – and her views on where the conflict is likely to go from now.
Sarah and her team presented a raw portrayal of the conflict and its human toll in Kyiv and elsewhere.
“[In reporting] so much of these things comes down to simple practicalities. Can you get food? Can you get a driver? Can you get out? And once we’d got all of those things in place, we were good to go.”
Ukranian officialdom knows how vital it is to get its story to the world. Ukranian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy “has understood the importance of telling people the story of what’s happening.”
“The Russians actually shelled people during the evacuations and fired on people. […] The Russians aren’t observing the sort of conventions of war where civilians are able to be evacuated. So getting them out and witnessing that was unquestionably dangerous. It was a dangerous place to be.”
Caught in this horrific situation, ordinary Ukrainians can do little but just think “from day to day” rather than contemplate the future. “‘If I can get through today, what is my plan for tomorrow?’ […] The fear of what lies ahead is so grim that the human can’t – you can’t live with that amount of fear. So in order to function, you keep your horizon nearer.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this podcast, Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn talk about Anthony Albanese’s handling of the bullying allegations mounted by friends of the late senator Kimberly Kitching, Labor’s sweeping victory in the South Australian election, and next week’s budget which will contain measures targeting the cost of living, which is escalating as an election issue.
Australia’s budget situation has been quietly improving. Deloitte Access Economics director Chris Richardson says the remarkable strength of the Australian economy means it no longer needs the emergency support it has been getting from the government and the Reserve Bank. Government spending fell by a record 10% in the year to January.
He counsels against emergency measures to protect Australians from the soaring price of petrol, saying today’s international oil price implies that in less than a fortnight petrol prices will be between 15 and 20 cents lower a litre.
While there is no guarantee they won’t climb again, the relief that’s in store is half as big as the relief the government could deliver by cutting fuel excise, a measure he says would be like applying a Band-Aid that would be difficult to rip off.
Rather than pumping more money into the economy, the March 29 budget should be withdrawing support in a measured fashion. Although government debt has climbed, low interest rates mean the payments on government debt cost less than before COVID.
With Australia just a “handful of months” away from an unemployment rate of 3.5% – Thursday’s February rate was 4.0% - Australia should celebrate its success in getting its economic policies right during COVID. While the reopening of borders will slow Australia’s success in bringing down unemployment, it is unlikely to reverse it.
After petrol prices, the next challenge for Australians will be higher mortgage rates, but they will be going up for a reason, Richardson says, because inflation is climbing and wage growth is climbing, which will improve the budget position further.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn talk about the continuing "blame game" after the floods, the pressure on the government over petrol prices, the coming weekend's South Australian election, and the PM's campaigning in Western Australia, now its border is finally open.
Then there's that Morrison crack about Anthony Albanese's 'makeover'!
Catastrophic floods have devastated large areas of NSW and Queensland. More than 20 people have lost their lives and Scott Morrison moved for the declaration of a national state of emergency in response to this disaster.
Mark Maund is from the School of Architecture and Built Environment at the University of Newcastle. He has qualifications in environmental science, urban and regional planning and project management.
This latest national disaster has seen the climate debate re-ignited. Maund agrees “climate change is one of the issues that we all need to deal with”, but “there are a number of other issues that come into play as well.”
Where “we choose to build our infrastructure and buildings is obviously one of the issues that we need to deal with”.
When “we choose to live and develop infrastructure in flood-prone land, then we consciously make these choices that we’re exposing some of our buildings and communities to risk.”
With this increasing number of natural disasters occurring in Australia, Maund says governments and citizens need to ask themselves “what risks are we as Australians prepared to accept and put communities at risk in some of these natural hazard prone areas?”
To better address disasters “we need to improve facilities and services and support for our responders”.
“We need to make sure is that they have the facilities, equipment, training and support when these disasters happen – because they will continue to happen, unfortunately – [so] that they can respond as quickly as possible.”
“One thing I do think we really need in terms of infrastructure is evacuation centres. I think we need places, permanent places, even if they’re multi-purpose that can be used for other service facilities and activities. We really need evacuation centres for people to give them time to recover when these disasters happen.”
“It’s really less about who takes the lead and more about how, as a nation, we come together and really work towards better outcomes for these situations.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn talk about the government’s proposal for a new east coast submarine base and the politics of that in an election Scott Morrison wants to frame around national security.
They also discuss the blame fall-out from the devastating floods, and the latest Essential poll finding that nearly half the electorate (48%) think it’s “time to give someone else a go” at governing federally.
As the West watches appalled at Russia’s brutal attack on Ukraine, attention is increasingly turning to the question of Vladimir Putin’s longer term ambition, and the potential for this conflagration to turn into a wider war.
Matthew Sussex, associate professor at the Griffith Asia Institute at Griffith University and an expert on Russia, believes Putin won’t want to stop at subjugating Ukraine.
“Putin himself seems absolutely personally invested in recreating the footprint at least of the USSR – certainly not its ideology, but its footprint.”
“He has for a long time said that Ukraine doesn’t deserve to exist as a state. That Ukrainians and Russians are just one people driven apart by the West.
"So he has […] achieved some of his aims already.”
“And the worry is, of course, that if Putin gets what he wants in Ukraine, then he will not stop. He will then turn his eyes to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia – possibly even Poland will be told in a few years time that it doesn’t have the right to exist as a sovereign state.”
On whether there’s a possibility of the war in Ukraine leading to a military conflict with the West, Sussex says: “Absolutely. It is potentially the case that Putin, who is a gambler, will try and up the ante by staging some kind of demonstration of strength against NATO, or perhaps even a provocation directly against NATO troops.
"Many, many wars in history have been started by accident, by overconfidence, by miscalculation. And this is why it’s a very, very dangerous time.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week Michelle and politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discuss Australia’s response to the war in Ukraine which now includes more than $100 million for lethal and non-lethal assistance and humanitarian aid.
They also canvass Peter Dutton’s recent controversial GoFundMe campaign for flood victims.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week Michelle speaks with politics + society editor Amanda Dunn about the escalating crisis in Ukraine as Russia sends in troops to rebel regions and Australia and other countries are set to announce sanctions.
They also discuss Australia’s relationship with China and what role that will play in the election, after a Chinese warship last week targeted a RAAF plane with a laser. An Essential poll, out this week, gives Labor a clear edge (37-28%) when people were asked, “which party would you trust to build a relationship with China in Australia’s best interests?”
Ahead of the election, Scott Morrison is trying to wedge Labor on national security generally and China in particular.
Opposition defence spokesman Brendan O'Connor tells this podcast: “National security is the the greatest priority of any federal government in order to protect the interests of the country and citizens. But we should not be politicising national security for base political purposes and that’s been on display now for certainly the last couple of weeks.”
“It is a critical issue and will always be a critical issue, but it shouldn’t be debased in the manner in which Scott Morrison has chosen to do so recently.”
On China, O'Connor indicates the difference under a Labor government would be one of tone rather than substance.
“We need to use temperate language in order to maintain peace and stability in the region. That’s not for a moment to suggest we do not call out acts of aggression or coercion.”
(The Essential poll, published on Tuesday, asked which party respondents would trust to build a relationship with China in Australia’s best interests. It found 37% favoured Labor, 28% nominated the Coalition and 34% were unsure.)
O'Connor describes Russian’s President Putin’s move on Ukraine – recognising two breakaway regions and deploying forces for “peacekeeping” – as “a blatant fundamental breach of international law”.
“Our position therefore has to be that we engage with our friends, particularly the NATO states and the United States, as to what best we can do to reduce the likelihood of any invasion by Russia of the Ukraine.”
O'Connor says Labor has concerns about a possible Australian defence capability gap between the current Collins class submarines and the delivery of the first submarine under AUKUS. But how a Labor administration would deal with that gap would depend on being comprehensively briefed in government on options.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week she and politics editor Amanda Dunn discuss the government’s torpedoed religious discrimination legislation. Scott Morrison thought he could press the issue and hopefully get the package through parliament. But he found he couldn’t control his backbench, with rebels backing an amendment to protect transgender children. As a result, Morrison then abandoned the package.
Amanda and Michelle also canvass the Morrison family’s appearance on Nine’s 60 Minutes, which brought more debate (and blowback) than ratings.
Meanwhile, as parliament winds down, the government is waging a shock-and-awe attack on Anthony Albanese, with Defence Minister Peter Dutton and Treasurer Josh Frydenberg working in tandem to try to undermine his credentials on national security and economic issues.
Trent Zimmerman is one of the five Liberal moderates who crossed the floor to vote to amend the religious discrimination package to protect trans children. Scott Morrison’s response was to abandon his legislation.
Asked whether he regrets his decision to vote against the government Zimmerman, who crossed the floor on some other proposed amendments, says he was “standing up on a couple of points of principle for me – and first and foremost was seeking to support amendments to the Sex Discrimination Act, which would have protected trans kids, but also broadened the limitation of the discrimination that’s allowable for children more generally.”
Zimmerman also voted for an unsuccessful amendment (not supported by Labor) to “remove the current provisions which allow teachers to be discriminated in schools as well”.
But he does “support the principle of a Religious Discrimination Act”. “I think it’s a no-brainer that you shouldn’t be allowed to be discriminated [against] based on your religious beliefs. But I just thought that this went above and beyond an orthodox discrimination law, and that’s where my problems arose. And I hope that at some stage we can have the debate again with a more orthodox bill.”
The rebels have come under some sharp attack from their own side but Zimmerman says they didn’t take their decisions lightly. His colleagues were “very emotionally committed to taking the action that they did because of their perceived concerns, but they recognised the magnitude of what they were doing.”
Zimmerman expects his battle against high profile independent Kylea Tink to be “a very tightly contested campaign”. “I’ve never taken elections in North Sydney for granted.”
With the government’s failure to deliver a national integrity commission an issue, he hopes a commission will be a fresh promise for the election.
“Having a national integrity commission, I think, is very important for our community and for politics.”
On the issue of trust, Zimmerman says: “I think what people are looking for is really the answer to the question of who you trust to get certain jobs done that they expect of their government. And I think that when we get to the election, people will be judging the government on its performance in managing the economy, on its overall performance in managing the pandemic.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week they discuss the imbroglio over Scott Morrison’s religious discrimination bill, approved by the Coalition on Tuesday after extensive debate but with dissidents threatening its fate in the House of Representatives.
Moderate Liberal MPs have serious concerns: Bridget Archer, who holds the marginal Tasmanian seat of Bass, told Parliament she would not vote for the bill, while Trent Zimmerman, from NSW, in the party room reserved his right not to do so. Meanwhile, Labor has yet to decide its attitude – if it supports the legislation that would ensure its passage.
Amanda and Michelle also discuss Tuesday’s parliamentary apology to victims of bad behaviour in the parliamentary workplace – with Morrison saying “sorry” to Brittany Higgins.
Meanwhile the opposition immediately homed in on the aged care crisis, which saw the government this week sending in the defence forces to help out in facilities.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
This week Michelle and politics editor Amanda Dunn discuss the imbroglio over Scott Morrison’s religious discrimination bill, approved by the Coalition on Tuesday after extensive debate but with dissidents potentially threatening its fate in the House of Representatives.
Moderate Liberal MPs have serious concerns: Bridget Archer, who holds the marginal Tasmanian seat of Bass, told Parliament she would not vote for the bill, while Trent Zimmerman, from NSW, in the party room reserved his right not to do so. Meanwhile, Labor has yet to decide its attitude – if it supports the legislation that would ensure its passage.
Amanda and Michelle also canvass Tuesday’s parliamentary apology to victims of bad behaviour in the parliamentary workplace – with Morrison saying “sorry” to Brittany Higgins.
Meanwhile in question time the opposition immediately homed in on the aged care crisis, which saw the government this week sending in the defence forces to help out in facilities.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Critics say Anthony Albanese is still an unknown quantity, but in this podcast the opposition leader insists he already has a “legacy” and connections with communities around the country.
“I have a relationship going back [from his time in government] to communities right around Australia during that period and relationships with the business community and with people in electorates from east to west and north to south”.
He says in his almost three years as opposition leader “the government hasn’t been able to attack any of my legacy”, which says “a lot about the achievements and how effective I was as a minister”.
As for the 2019 defeat, Albanese says Labor had a lot of policies but lacked “a narrative”.
This time, Labor has a story to tell. “We want a stronger Australia coming back” based upon three subthemes. These are “future made in Australia”, “rising living standards”, and “more secure work”.
Asked to give an assurance that the overall level of taxation would not be higher under a Labor government than at present, Albanese says: “We’re not planning anything in that direction at all. And we’ve made that very clear. The truth is, that our record as the former Labor government - taxes were lower than they are today under this government”.
Bianca De Marchi Critics say Anthony Albanese is still an unknown quantity, but in this podcast the opposition leader insists he already has a “legacy” and connections with communities around the country.
“I have a relationship going back [from his time in government] to communities right around Australia during that period and relationships with the business community and with people in electorates from east to west and north to south”.
He says in his almost three years as opposition leader “the government hasn’t been able to attack any of my legacy”, which says “a lot about the achievements and how effective I was as a minister”.
As for the 2019 defeat, Albanese says Labor had a lot of policies but lacked “a narrative”.
This time, Labor has a story to tell. “We want a stronger Australia coming back” based upon three subthemes. These are “future made in Australia”, “rising living standards”, and “more secure work”.
Asked to give an assurance that the overall level of taxation would not be higher under a Labor government than at present, Albanese says: “We’re not planning anything in that direction at all. And we’ve made that very clear. The truth is, that our record as the former Labor government - taxes were lower than they are today under this government”.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Defence Minister Peter Dutton says he would like to see more American combat capability based in Australia.
Speaking on the “Politics with Michelle Grattan” podcast, Dutton says: “I’d be very open to it. I would be very, very happy to have that discussion with the US if they saw a strategic advantage in doing so.”
He says there is significant visiting by US airforce, navy and army forces (together with the current marine rotation). “And if that is accompanied by, or there’s a subsequent decision to base further numbers, we’d be very happy to have that discussion with the US – or with the UK, for that matter.”
Last September’s AUSMIN talks committed “to significantly advance Australia-United States force posture cooperation”.
Dutton also reiterates he’s working on the acceleration of the timetable for the nuclear-powered submarines, a centrepiece of last year’s AUKUS agreement between Australia, the US and Britain. “I can assure you, the 20 year timeline is nonsense. I believe that we will be able to acquire well before that”.
Discussions with the US and UK have been “very productive” and “I’ll have more to say on that in due course once the discussions continue”.
“Everything [is] on the table with the US and the UK at the moment, and we will achieve capability well ahead of what the critics are pointing out at the moment.”
“I’ve been driving the process, receiving weekly updates, engaging with our counterparts. And this has momentum. It has buy-in from the US and the UK. It has an urgency because of the way in which the Chinese government is positioning in the Indo-Pacific”.
Asked about criticism that his language on China is too belligerent, Dutton says, “I do believe that China is on a pathway of aggression, particularly toward Taiwan, and I want to be part of what I think is a majority view around the world to stop that from taking place.
"I want China to continue to grow economically. I want to see people lifted out of poverty, but I don’t want to see a clash, particularly between great powers. And I think again, we’re better off to be frank in our assessments and to argue from a position of strength, not weakness, because otherwise, we will find ourselves in conflict in the Indo-Pacific, and that’s not what anybody wants.”
Dutton doesn’t step back from his description of Russian President Vladimir Putin as an ageing dictator who is becoming more and more irrational.
“People only need to look at his track record and concerning human rights abuses in Russia. There’s no sense when we’re dealing with a bully of any nature, believing that if we just close our ears and our mouth, that somehow the bully will become a good person.”
As election year opens, Michelle Grattan speaks with Tanya Plibersek, Labor’s spokeswoman on education and women, about the opposition’s agenda in these two critical areas.
Violence against women is one of our society’s most pressing and intractable issues, and front and centre for Plibersek, who says there is a way to do better.
“We do know so much about what we can do to reduce risks of violence in interpersonal relationships. And of course, it starts with our youngest Australians,” she says. We “need to rely much more on parents to model healthy relationships in the home.”
“It disturbs me that the rates … of domestic violence don’t seem to be coming down and in fact, one of the few areas of crime where statistics continue to go up are areas like sexual assault. So we need to do better at prevention. We need to do better at policing and in our justice system.”
Despite these negatives, Plibersek sees last year’s March4Justice and increased public and media awareness as signs “things are changing, that our society is changing in a way that is, I hope, unstoppable.”
On education, Plibersek talks through the detail of Anthony Albanese’s announcement of $440 million for schools for improvements such as better ventilation and also for mental health and wellbeing initiatives for kids, so hard hit during the pandemic.
As university fees are set to rise for many students this year, Plibersek has said that under a Labor government Australians can expect “a commitment to a fundamental overhaul of our university sector”.
She says she wants to “make sure that every young Australian who is prepared to work hard and study hard can get a place at university and that no one’s discouraged because of the fees”. But although highly critical of the government’s controversial new fees structure Plibersek cannot give a commitment a Labor government would change it quickly. That would need to be worked through with the universities, she says.
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs election year opens, Michelle Grattan speaks with Tanya Plibersek, Labor’s spokeswoman on education and women, about the opposition’s agenda in these two critical areas.
Violence against women is one of our society’s most pressing and intractable issues, and front and centre for Plibersek, who says there is a way to do better.
“We do know so much about what we can do to reduce risks of violence in interpersonal relationships. And of course, it starts with our youngest Australians,” she says. We “need to rely much more on parents to model healthy relationships in the home.”
“It disturbs me that the rates … of domestic violence don’t seem to be coming down and in fact, one of the few areas of crime where statistics continue to go up are areas like sexual assault. So we need to do better at prevention. We need to do better at policing and in our justice system.”
Despite these negatives, Plibersek sees last year’s March4Justice and increased public and media awareness as signs “things are changing, that our society is changing in a way that is, I hope, unstoppable.”
On education, Plibersek talks through the detail of Anthony Albanese’s announcement of $440 million for schools for improvements such as better ventilation and also for mental health and wellbeing initiatives for kids, so hard hit during the pandemic.
As university fees are set to rise for many students this year, Plibersek has said that under a Labor government Australians can expect “a commitment to a fundamental overhaul of our university sector”.
She says she wants to “make sure that every young Australian who is prepared to work hard and study hard can get a place at university and that no one’s discouraged because of the fees”. But although highly critical of the government’s controversial new fees structure Plibersek cannot give a commitment a Labor government would change it quickly. That would need to be worked through with the universities, she says.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society Senior Deputy Editor Justin Bergman and Michelle canvass Anthony Albanese’s address to the National Press Club this week, billed as the opposition leader seeking to outline what sort of PM he would be.
They also discuss whether the Coalition will lean on its perceived strengths – the economy and national security – in the lead-up to the federal election, as well as the calls coming from across the political spectrum for a royal commission into Australia’s pandemic response and whether this will play a role in the election.
Additional audio Gaena, Blue Dot Sessions, from Free Music Archive.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Mick Tsikas/AAPIn addition to her regular interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where Michelle discusses the news of the week with The Conversation’s politics team.
This week, Politics + Society senior deputy editor Justin Bergman and Michelle discuss the eventful start to the election year.
With massive surges in COVID cases in most of the country and rapid antigen tests hard to get, the current mood in the electorate is not in the government’s favour, as polling is showing.
Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s troubles were worsened by the damaging and dangerous antics of outgoing MP George Christensen, urging parents not to get their children vaccinated. (In the wake of Morrison’s condemnation, Christensen announced after this podcast was recorded that he was stepping down from his position on a parliamentary committee.)
But there’s still a budget to come in March, and a number of months between what might be the near-peak of Omicron and the election now destined for May.
As the political year gets into swing, the question is whether the election is really Opposition leader Anthony Albanese’s to win, or simply Morrison’s to lose.
Additional audio Gaena, Blue Dot Sessions, from Free Music Archive.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
In her last podcast for the year, Michelle Grattan speaks with Treasurer Josh Frydenberg about the mid-year budget update, his optimism about the economy, and the election.
Although Scott Morrison has the option of a March poll, Frydenberg says he is working on the assumption he’ll deliver a budget on March 29, which would put the election in May.
Frydenberg says he’ll be “spending my Christmas period doing other than eating turkey and having a quiet beer on the balcony and looking at the beach in Lorne. I will be thinking about the budget, thinking about next year’s election and hoping to frame the contest about economic management.”
He admits that with the pandemic “there’s a lot of uncertainty out there.” But he stresses that the “one message I want to give to all your listeners today is there is no complacency. We’re not out of this thing yet.”
Frydenberg says he is still “very confident about the economy going forward”, with plenty of spending power to help it along.
“We have this wave of money that’s been accumulated by households and businesses because the restrictions meant that they couldn’t spend it and they will in time.”
Mick Tsikas/AAPAs well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
This week they look back at 2021 and forward to 2022, which will see an election by May. They discuss how the government and opposition are ending the year, the mutual nervousness about what lies ahead, the women’s vote, and the flurry around the batch of strong independent candidates.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
In this podcast Michelle Grattan speaks with Sean Kelly and Anne Tieran about where the political battle stands as we look to the 2022 federal election.
Kelly, a former staffer to then prime ministers Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd, has just written The Game: A Portrait of Scott Morrison. Anne Tieran, adjunct professor at Griffith University, has co-edited the newly-released book The Oxford Handbook of Australian Politics.
Kelly and Tiernan canvass a broad range of topics.
Will questions around the PM’s character be pushed aside by the economic debate? How potent will the climate issue be? How will well-funded independent candidates fare? What about the Greens’ ambitions? What’s happening in the vital state of Queensland? Will the women’s vote be especially significant this time? How would a hung parliament work out? How do voters feel after two years of COVID and what influence might this have?
Mick Tsikas/AAPGreens leader Adam Bandt is hopeful his party could have 12 senators in the next parliament.
Only three of the party’s nine senators are up for re-election (in Victoria, Western Australia and Tasmania). So, assuming they hold their seats, with possible wins in South Australia, Queensland and NSW there is the opportunity to bring the total to a dozen, he says.
Bandt says that in 2019, 10% of Australians voted for the Greens and “that is a very strong show of support and one that I hope will grow and that will help put us in a strong position after the next election.”
Given there’s currently a lot of speculation about the possibility of a hung parliament, Bandt says the Greens have “got a real chance of being in balance of power in both houses of parliament.”
With the government talking up a scare about a Labor-Green alliance in government – which Labor says it would not enter – Bandt says if there was a “power sharing” parliament the Greens would seek to work with Labor. But “we would approach that situation with strong principles, but an open mind as to how best to ensure that we have a stable, effective and progressive government to replace the current terrible Morrison government”.
“There will be principles that we have and policies that we want to see enacted. We want to tax the billionaires, get dental and mental health care into Medicare and act on coal and gas. They will be the priorities for us.”
“I think people want to see politicians and parties work together, especially on something so important as the climate. We in the Greens are willing to do that.”
On this core issue for their party, the Greens are firm that “we need to do what the science requires, and it is clear now that after Glasgow, where the world reaffirmed the commitment to limit global heating to 1.5 degrees, there’s no room for coal, oil and gas in that future.
The Greens want Australia’s coal-fired power stations and coal exports phased out by 2030.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
This week they discuss Labor’s newly announced climate policy which includes a target of 43% emissions reduction. They discuss how this plan differs from the Coalitions target and the support it has from key business groups.
They also canvass the push for former NSW Premier Gladys Berejilikan to run for the federal election in a bid to win the seat of Warringah back from Independent Zali Steggal. This move, if it goes ahead, is controversial as there is still an ongoing ICAC investigation into her conduct.
The United States has announced that they will hold a diplomatic boycott of the Beijing Winter Olympics, with speculation that the Morrison Government will follow the lead of the US. This boycott is over human rights in China. This is a diplomatic gesture rather than a full boycott, as the athletes would still attend.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
This week they discuss the just-released Jenkins Report on workplace culture in Parliament House. This was commissioned after allegations of rape by former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins.
At a Tuesday news conference, Scott Morrison deplored what had been found and promised action, but it will take more than promises to change this culture.
Immediately afterwards in parliament, there was a lot of bad behaviour.
Omicron, the new Coronavirus variant, has arrived in Australia just as the country was about to open its borders to workers and students (now delayed). Although the government is reacting cautiously to Omicron, saying it needs more information, Morrison’s message is that we don’t want more lockdowns, we want to continue to open up and not go backwards.
The provisional 2022 parliamentary calendar, issued this week, includes a March budget. Scott Morrison believes an election framed by a budget is the best electoral course, although the March poll option has its supporters.
Labor has announced that in government it would appoint a family domestic and sexual violence commissioner and also fund 500 new community sector workers to help women at risk or in crisis.
Labor spokeswoman Jenny McAllister says more staff are desperately needed. “I visited a service last week in western Sydney that said that over the last year they’d helped around 1200 women who were seeking their assistance to escape violence. But they turned away 1100 because they didn’t have the workers to support them.”
Asked why, despite increased attention and funding for combatting domestic violence, we don’t seem to be getting on top of the problem, McAllister says she doesn’t “underestimate how complex and challenging it will be to produce sustained reduction in rates of violence.”
But, she argues, a change of government is needed “to restore that momentum and energy that was there at the beginning of this planned process”.
Earlier this year there were nationwide marches on women’s justice issues. Has the momentum faded? McAllister says: “There is still an enormous trust deficit between the prime minister and Australian women […] Australian women had had enough.”
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
As parliament is in its final sitting weeks for the year, the religious discrimination bill was put to the coalition party room. Concerns with the bill, to be introduced by Scott Morrison on Tuesday were raised by Liberal moderates. It will be sent to a senate committee and its fate remains up in the air.
Queensland MP Andrew Wallace is the new speaker, and the Opposition was quick to test him out in Tuesday’s question time.
The government will be pushing its legislation for Voter ID during this sitting. But it’s not clear where the numbers lie, with Labor strongly opposing a move that it says will make it harder for the disadvantaged to vote.
The prime minister’s integrity has been again in the spotlight, over a text message he sent to Anthony Albanese when he was on route to Hawaii in 2019 during the bushfires.
Liberal backbencher Dave Sharma, a former diplomat, is an up-and-comer in his party and one of its moderate voices.
Holding the progressive electorate of Wentworth, where formerly Malcolm Turnbull was the member and climate change is a significant issue, Sharma was among those Liberal MPs who pressed Scott Morrison on the 2050 target before Glasgow.
In this podcast Sharma discusses climate policy, the religious discrimination legislation, a national integrity commission, voter ID, China, and the Liberal party.
Asked whether the government should improve its medium-term target at next years climate conference - which the government is not disposed to do - he argues for leaving options open.
“I wouldn’t be ruling it out, but nor do I think we necessarily need to be ruling it in. I think we need to maintain our options.
"I think we always need to be mindful of where the international environment is at on this, and that’s very much shaped our attitude towards adopting net zero by 2050.
"Australia has always been a country that doesn’t seek to be an outlier in the world. It seeks to move with the major currents of world opinion and world developments.”
With the government’s religious discrimination legislation due to be introduced next week, Sharma says: “My concern is that what should be a shield only does not, is not allowed to become a sword.
"People should be protected against discrimination on the basis of their religion. But someone’s religion or faith should not give them a positive right to discriminate against other people.”
On China, he’s encouraged by the recent joint US-China statement on climate and this week’s talks between President Joe Biden and President Xi Jinping, and urges efforts to improve Australia-China relations.
“We live in the same region together. There’s a remarkable degree of common interests that we share. We’re well integrated trading and economic partners. It’s too important a relationship [..] not to be striving every day to ensure that it works better.”
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
This week they discuss Morrison’s fall in ratings on character qualities in the latest Newspoll, published in The Australian . The poll ranks Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese on traits such as trustworthiness, likeability, and care for people. On all but three, Morrison fared worse than Albanese.
They also canvass Australia’s position post COP26, with nations already gearing up for next year’s conference and how Australia has refused to increase its 2030 targets in line with other countries.
Campaigning has started for the 2022 election, and Morrison has already launched his scare against Labor, with claims of rising interest rates and petrol prices under an ALP government. This tactic has drawn comparisons with the 2004 election, when John Howard ran on similar lines.
With the Glasgow conference nearly over and the government promising to release its climate policy modelling before parliament resumes later this month, eyes are turning to Labor for its long-awaited alternative.
Climate change spokesman Chris Bowen says the policy will be both “realistic and ambitious” – which of course neatly embraces the debate within Labor about how far to differentiate itself from the government on an issue that caused it grief at the 2019 election.
“I hope and intend to be the climate change minister within six months. So anything we say […] it’s got to be realistic. But it will be realistic and ambitious. Both of these things can be true.”
Bowen slates the government for its lack of ambition. “We like to be an influential country and we have never been as out of touch on any issue ever in our foreign affairs than we are on climate change. So I think there’s a particular onus on Australia.”
On one of the issues to the forefront this week – ways to encourage electric cars – Bowen says there’s “a legitimate conversation to be had” about fuel standards (which NSW environment minister Matt Kean says should be addressed by the federal government).
Labor earlier this year announced measures on electric cars and has more policy to come.
Bowen says Morrison’s attempt to wedge Labor by linking an expansion of the remit of the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to the $500 million for a new fund to encourage the commercialisation of technology, has backfired.“Two coalition senators have come out and said they’re crossing the floor to vote against it. […] He’s wedged himself.”
Asked about the claims the renewable sector won’t produce as many jobs as the old fossil fuel sector, Bowen says: “Every dollar spent on renewable energy and energy efficiency creates three times more jobs than a dollar spent on traditional energy.
"And that’s also true when you consider some of the other things the country has to do […] we also have to upgrade our transmission massively to get renewable energy from where it’s generated to where it’s consumed. Our electricity grid can’t cope. So we need billions of dollars of investment to upgrade our transmission grid. We have a policy to do that and that’ll create lots of jobs.”
“I see it as a positive story to say we’re going to diversify regional economies, create new jobs, have lots of regional job creation as we go. And that’s a positive story for Australia’s regions.”
But, Bowen says, “it is dishonest to pretend that coal communities aren’t going to be impacted by reducing coal exports as countries move away from coal fired power.”
“We’re also going to have detailed plans for communities. We’re also going to have an opportunity for them to have a say from the ground up in their economic future.”
Speaking more generally about what the Labor party stands for today, Bowen says: “We still stand for growth and opportunity, which is what I’ve always said Labor stands for. Economic growth lifts people out of poverty. It turns aspiration into reality and we stand for giving people the opportunity to make the most of that. Though I do not mean a sort of narrow ‘equality of opportunity’ frame. I mean, the opportunity to live their lives to their fullest capacity.”
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
Scott Morrison is gearing up for the election in the first half of 2022. As the country emerges from COVID constraints, the PM is trying to make up for lost time on the ground, travelling in NSW and Victoria this week. He’s selling some of the nitty gritty of his emissions reduction policy, including a plan to encourage the take up of electric cars.
But in Melbourne he was confronted by his own embarrassing quotes from 2019, when he laid into Labor’s policy on these vehicles, claiming they would “end the weekend” and that people who lived in apartments would have to dangle an extension cord out of their windows to charge their cars.
Michelle and Amanda also canvass the latest developments in the allegations, involving federal MPs, of branch stacking activities in the Victorian Liberal and Labor parties, and the slow grind in the quest for a federal integrity commission.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
Scott Morrison is gearing up for the election in the first half of 2022. As the country emerges from COVID constraints, the PM is trying to make up for lost time on the ground, travelling in NSW and Victoria this week. He’s selling some of the nitty gritty of his emissions reduction policy, including a plan to encourage the take up of electric cars.
But in Melbourne he was confronted by his own embarrassing quotes from 2019, when he laid into Labor’s policy on these vehicles, claiming they would “end the weekend” and that people who lived in apartments would have to dangle an extension cord out of their windows to charge their cars.
Michelle and Amanda also canvass the latest developments in the allegations, involving federal MPs, of branch stacking activities in the Victorian Liberal and Labor parties, and the slow grind in the quest for a federal integrity commission.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
Scott Morrison’s trip to the G20 summit in Rome and COP26 in Glasgow, from which he returns early Thursday, was overshadowed by the drama of French President Emmanuel Macron declaring the PM a liar, arising from the circumstances surrounding the cancellation of the French submarine contract.
After Macron’s extraordinary attack, made on the sidelines of the G20, the Australian government retaliated by leaking a private text from Macron to Morrison, which further infuriated the French.
In Glasgow, Morrison delivered the 2050 net zero commitment that caused the Nationals such angst, and gave Prince Charles a rapid-fire briefing on Australia’s climate policy, just in case the royal had missed it.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
Resources minister Keith Pitt might have been a “no” when the Nationals debated the government’s climate plan but he was a winner in the deal struck between Scott Morrison and the Coalition’s minor partner. He has been restored to cabinet, just months after Barnaby Joyce relegated him to the outer ministry.
The coal industry faces a bleak future as the world tackles global warming. But Pitt, a forthright voice for coal, is anxious to provide reassurance that the climate plan will not do anything to accelerate its decline.
“We’re not closing the coal sector, we’re not closing the gas sector, we’re not closing offshore oil. We will continue to work on markets that are available.”
He says right now thermal coal is in a “very strong position [..] we’ve got more people involved and employed in thermal coal mining than we’ve had since 2012.
"In the midst of the pandemic, thermal coal was under $50 US spot price - it’s currently over $240 [US].”
“We’ve looked at the International Energy Agency forecast […] they’re saying there’ll be continued increases in demand for thermal coal out to about 2030, and I expect it to drop off peak by about 2050 by around 20 per cent. So there’s still coal-fired power stations being built. There’s still demand. And keep in mind, we have one of the highest quality products in the world. That’s why there’s demand for Australian coal.”
Pitt is coy when pressed on what the Nationals got out of their negotiations with Scott Morrison – apart from his elevation and a commitment to having the Productivity Commission review progress of the plan every five years. “I’m sure we’ll have more to say in coming weeks […] there’s always process.”
On how Nationals members are feeling after the rough ride over the climate plan Pitt says, “this is a democracy at work and in Canberra nearly every decision is difficult […] we’re all knockabout sort of people”.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversation’s politics team.
In this week’s episode, they canvass the government’s plan, released on Tuesday, to get to net-zero emissions reduction by 2050. It relies overwhelmingly on technology, some of which is yet to be developed. Scott Morrison’s mantra is “technology not taxes” but his plan spends a lot of taxpayer money to drive his technology journey.
The experts are already sceptical about the plan’s thinness, and the detailed modelling is still to come. Meanwhile, after all that Coalition agonising, the safeguards the Nationals obtained remain mostly under wraps.
Lukas Coch/AAPBridget McKenzie is a cabinet minister and Nationals leader in the Senate. But her seniority hasn’t inhibited her being one of her party’s most outspoken advocates demanding protections for the regions before it signs up to the target of net zero emissions by 2050.
In this podcast, recorded two days before the Nationals’ meeting to consider the results of Barnaby Joyce’s negotiations with Scott Morrison for a deal, McKenzie makes clear her view the Nationals must have a loud and distinct voice for the people they represent, not just on this issue but generally.
“When we run our own race, that’s what people like about the National party,” she says.
She’s blunt about the distinctions between the Nationals and the rural Liberals, which she says go to philosophy and ethos. Like the rural Liberals, the Nationals believe in free trade and markets “but we also don’t think that the market will be simultaneously a determinant of a fair and just society.”
“I think the Libs, you know, they maybe subscribe to Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations as the only tome he ever wrote. Whereas I think we would say the reason you have Wealth of Nations from Adam Smith is because of his [The Theory Of Moral Sentiments] – that the purpose of the market is actually to drive a fair and just society”.
Speculation over the years has suggested McKenzie hoped to move to the lower house but she insists “I have never had a desire to be in the House of Representatives. I adore the Senate.”
Reflecting on the sports rorts affair, which saw her forced to the backbench, she says “I learnt a lot.
"I learnt how brutal and ruthless politics can be. I learnt that truth and fact can be incredibly distorted. I learnt […] how important ministerial discretion actually is in a democracy.
"I learnt in a very real way the cowardice and cruelty of keyboard warriors through social media. And I also […] was reminded how much of a difference you actually can make from the backbench.”
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
COVID-19 has meant international students have been unable to arrive in Australia to commence their studies, devastating one of our most profitable sectors.
We’re joined in this podcast by Phil Honeywood, CEO of the International Education Association of Australia to talk about the impact of the pandemic on universities, students, and the economy – and the way forward.
Honeywood says the data shows many international students have voted with their feet and given up their Australian courses to study elsewhere – Britain, Canada, and now even United States under Joe Biden’s more open door policy.
“For example, UK university international student enrolments are up over 30% year on year. […] They’re recruiting full fee, paying international students at Australia’s expense, and we lose enormous market share to those countries because they’ve kept the doors open largely throughout the pandemic.”
“And as we know, that has also reverberated across our agriculture, horticultural and hospitality sectors in our economy who’ve relied very heavily on international students to fill the low skilled jobs.”
One problem in restarting the industry is what Honeywood calls a “pass the parcel syndrome”.
“On the one hand, the federal government say, yes state government can be masters of their own destiny and put up a student return plan which the federal government endorsed. On the other hand, when it looked as though we’re going to have large numbers of international students coming back in one state, the federal government remind everybody that no, actually they control Border Force. They control visa entry into the country and they will choose to tell the state to get back to its box.”
Honeywood criticises the Home Affairs Department for being unwilling to endorse student visas for Africans. These students go to the Uk in “the tens of thousands” but “our Home Affairs Department who issue student visas […] seem to prefer to just say no to African students”.
Honeywood also says “it’s really important to understand the motivation of young people who want to study in another country. For many of them, it’s a chance to obviously explore their own personality, to prove their resilience.”
A report released this week by the International Education Association of Australia titled ‘Student Voices’ found that “the appetite for face-to-face study in Australia is a primary driver”.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this week’s episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the tortuous negotiations with the Nationals over the 2050 net zero target the PM intends to take to Glasgow. The Nationals claim they’re not holding the government to ransom, but they’re playing hardball in extracting protections for the regions.
They also canvass Anthony Albanese’s reference of Labor MP Anthony Byrne – who gave sensational evidence to IBAC last week about branch stacking – to the Finance Department to determine whether he breached rules by employing taxpayer-funded staff who didn’t even turn up at the office.
The Morrison Government is in the painful throes of a climate policy shift to embrace a target of net zero by 2050, ahead of next month’s Glasgow conference. This requires a deal with the divided, noisy, fractious Nationals.
We’re joined in this podcast by Tony Wood, Director of the Energy Program at the Grattan Institute, to talk about Glasgow, Australia’s policy and the fallout from the necessary transition to lower emissions.
“[The government] will talk about […] how technology will be fundamentally important to meeting a net zero target. And that’s absolutely true,” Wood says.
[But] policy will be important as well.
“The government job, then, is to address the barriers and issues that arise.
"In some cases, it will mean losses of jobs in some sectors, but it also means growth of jobs in other sectors. And that’s where the big opportunities lie.
"Sectors actually are not really looking to be protected from the consequences of reducing emissions. In fact, they want to be part of the process of driving these changes, so they can actually have some control over their destiny,” Wood says.
“So the farming community wants to be part of the solution. They’ve already committed themselves to net zero by dates which are much earlier than 2050. And now the Business Council, which represents some of those big mining companies for example, they’ve also committed to net zero by 2050.
"As you think about winners and losers […] we do know that one thing is for certain – that losers shout about their losses much more than the winners boast about their gains.
"So what the government puts in place to try and bring those areas of the economy along with them, where the concerns will arise, will be fundamentally important. They will obviously have had to provide some sort of concessions in the announcements around how they’re going to ensure that rural and regional and mining communities are being considered in this process.”
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this week’s episode, they canvass Scott Morrison’s signal he now does want to go to Glasgow, as even Prince Charles increases the pressure on him to attend the “last chance saloon”. This comes as crunch time looms for the Nationals to agree to a new government climate policy.
Meanwhile the admission by federal Labor MP Anthony Byrne be branch stacked leaves Anthony Albanese is an awkward position as he prepares for the election.
After Gladys Berejiklian’s resignation over an investigation by the NSW Independent Commission Against Corruption (ICAC), the debate about the federal government’s proposed – but weak – federal integrity commission is heating up.
Stephen Charles, a former Victorian judge who is a director of the Centre for Public Integrity, says the Coalition should totally rework its draft model to give it real teeth in dealing with politicians and public servants.
Pointing out that under the government draft, investigations of politicians wouldn’t have public hearings, Charles asks, “What does that show you about the concern they have of their activities being exposed? And […] remember the hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars that this coalition has shown it is prepared to spend […] to its electoral advantage rather than in the interests of the public.”
“Australia is a signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Corruption. Article 36 of that convention requires Australia to have an effective body to deal with corruption, and those of us who’ve been arguing for a national integrity body have been pointing to Australia’s failure to comply with its obligations under UNCAC for a long time now.”
Charles agrees with the need to prevent the integrity commission being used by political players for their own purposes. “These powers must not be allowed to be weaponised by […] the political party in power at the time.”
“The body should be under the control of the judicial system, which in this case would mean under the control of the federal court […] there should be an inspector, and next there should be a parliamentary committee which should have its activities under continual review.” With those protections, misuse could be prevented, Charles says.
AAP/Mick TsikasAs well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this week’s episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the dramatic changing of the guard in NSW and the fallout from ICAC’s announcement of its investigation into Gladys Berejiklian for the debate about a federal integrity commission.
They also canvass the increasing signs Scott Morrison is inclined to stay away from the Glasgow climate conference, as he points out Jacinda Ardern is not attending.
Michelle Grattan does not work for, consult, own shares in or receive funding from any company or organisation that would benefit from this article, and has disclosed no relevant affiliations beyond their academic appointment.
With the 2022 election looming, local activists are mobilising in many government seats to sponsor independent candidates. The push – stronger and more organised since the 2019 election – is driven especially by concerns about climate change and integrity issues, as well as the general declining faith in the major parties,
There will be substantial money and campaigning help for the more viable independent candidates. Businessman Simon Holmes à Court, with his Climate 200, is putting together a war chest that currently has more than $1.5 million, while former independent member for Indi, Cathy McGowan, who pioneered the “Voices” movement, is assisting local groups with advice on how to mobilise support.
Asked why people have shifted towards campaigns such as ‘Voices of’, Holmes à Court says these groups “are being set up by people who feel really let down”. He says expected target seats include Wentworth, North Sydney and Mackellar in Sydney, and Flinders, Kooyong and Goldstein in Melbourne. Hume may be also on the list. “There is a very strong ‘vote Angus [Taylor] out’ group [that] makes that an interesting seat as well.”
Noting many of the “Voices” groups are in safe seats, McGowan says “there’s a sense that if you’re in a marginal seat, you get better service from either the government or the opposition. But if you’re in a safe seat for either of those teams, you get missed out on… [the locals] want better representation and then they want more, certainly on policy areas”.
She points out crossbenchers can be “really effective. […] And I think people like the calibre of the crossbench. And in many cases they’re much, much more effective than a backbench, either in the opposition or in the government.”
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society Senior Deputy Editor Justin Bergman and Michelle canvass the internal brawling that’s happening – which has included Nationals minister Bridget McKenzie attacking treasurer Josh Frydenberg – as Scott Morrison seeks a deal with Barnaby Joyce for the government to endorse a target of net zero emissions by 2050 for the Glasgow climate conference.
They also discuss Morrison’s indication this week that he mightn’t go Glasgow. The aftermath of lockdowns could make it a risky time to be out of the country.
The New AUKUS security agreement has bound Australia even more tightly to the United States and Britain. But it has brought blowback against all three countries from France – which was blindsided by the cancellation of its contract to supply submarines to Australia.
On another front, Australia is under intense pressure from its two "great and powerful friends", the US and the UK, to improve its ambition on climate change in the run up to the Glasgow conference.
In the wake of AUKUS and on the cusp of Glasgow, we talk to Britain's High Commissioner to Australia, Vicki Treadell, about security and climate.
Treadell says Britain is "deeply disappointed at the reaction from France" following the AUKUS announcement – which included the French cancelling defence talks with the United Kingdom.
"We would hope that they will see the bigger picture, that our partnership from a strategic defence and security point of view should not be diminished. The areas where we already work with them, and likewise America and Australia too. All those things remain for us to work together on."
"Obviously, they are disappointed, but I don't think they should regard it or interpret it as a loss of trust."
She says the French should bear in mind "there is a far more important strategic dynamic to safeguard, to ensure stability and peace in the region".
As for Britain's part in AUKUS, the "gravity has shifted to this region in terms of geopolitics, economics, and therefore we need to be part of this region engaged with it".
Looking to Glasgow, "We want to see high ambition from all the countries participating in COP 26. We see this as a really important economic agenda for the world, the economic transition that we need to make."
"I know that Prime Minister Morrison is working hard towards this, but we do understand the politics of Australia and all we can do as good friends and partners is to encourage and to say that we will be there to work with Australia to realise that level of ambition."
"Australia has a huge opportunity to become a global leader in [...] key clean industries of the future. Australia has an almost unparalleled opportunity to create jobs and growth domestically and also to produce the key inputs needed for economies around the world to decarbonise inputs like clean hydrogen, green materials like steel and aluminium."
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the intense backlash from France over the Morrison government's AUKUS security deal with the United States and the United Kingdom, which will see Australia acquire nuclear-powered submarines and other sophisticated military technology. As well, they canvass the mounting international pressure on Scott Morrison as he and President Biden talk climate change during the PM's current US visit.
Michelle and Amanda also discuss Christian Porter's resignation from the ministry to the backbench after he refused either to find out names of donors who helped fund his defamation action or to give back the money.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss Christian Porter’s extraordinary “blind trust” – where generous benefactors (assuming there’s more than one) are helping out with his legal bills in his now discontinued ABC defamation case. Porter, it seems, doesn’t know who he should be thanking because the donors are anonymous.
Amanda and Michelle also canvass Gladys Berejiklian’s on-again-off-again media appearances, and Scott Morrison’s trip to the US next week, which is likely to include some interesting exchanges with President Biden on climate policy.
In the week of the National Summit on Women's Safety, Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins joins the podcast to discuss progress – and lack of progress – on issues of vital importance to Australian women.
Last week, the government passed aspects of Jenkins' Respect@Work report into law. Of the 12 recommendations which called for specific legislative reform, only six were enacted. In particular, the recommendation for placing a "positive duty" on employers to protect employees against workplace harassment has not been adopted. This cherry-picking has attracted considerable backlash.
Jenkins intends to continue pressing the government on the six unimplemented measures.
"When they gave their full response to the 55 recommendations in April [the government] did indicate they would do some legislative reform now and they would take longer to consider the other six."
"So they haven't said no to me right now, and I am going to hold them to their commitment that they will continue to consider those reforms."
The women's safety summit came when the conversation about this issue is front of mind, following marches early this year, sparked by the Brittany Higgins' allegation of rape in Parliament House, and the allegation of historical rape against Christian Porter, which he denies.
Jenkins says achieving gender equality is an issue in "many other Western countries" but Australia ranks 50th on the World Economic Forum Global Gender Gap Index.
"We started in 2006 at, I think it was, 15. So [...] other countries have been really moving at a faster pace than we have."
"We are world-leading in terms of [...] educating women and girls. So the problem does tend to arise once those women leave university, get streamed into lower paid jobs, get expected to stay at home, don't have access to good, flexible, affordable childcare. There's a whole range of things that then build up in the Australian community. And I think it's time we change that."
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the criticism Scott Morrison has already faced this week.
Firstly, his trip to Sydney to visit his family for Father's Day, which required a special exemption to return to Canberra, brought a sharp backlash when so many families couldn't reunite for the weekend. The PM didn't breach the rules – but did fail the pub test.
Secondly, while his address to the National Summit on Women's Safety acknowledged that "Australia has a problem" when it comes to ensuring women feel safe, critics including Australian of the Year Grace Tame are scathing of his and his government's performance.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the June quarter national accounts, released on Wednesday. While this quarter was better than expected, the September quarter is certain to be negative as a result of the prolonged lockdowns.
They also mark the change this week in the national COVID debate, as the Victorian government, following NSW, admits defeat in the battle to get to COVID zero.
COVID has been spreading quickly in western NSW Indigenous communities where low vaccination rates and poor conditions make for a toxic mix. The first Indigenous death occurred in Dubbo this week.
As efforts intensify to deal with the NSW outbreak Pat Turner, CEO of the National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisations (NACCHO) joins the podcast. As well as discussing the NSW situation, she warns of the vulnerability of communities in Western Australia, attacks religious figures promoting dangerous misinformation, and says Indigenous communities can't safely open at 70% or 80% vaccination rates.
On western NSW, where there are hundreds of cases, Turner says crowded and bad housing make it "almost impossible to isolate and quarantine". People in Wilcannia are "having to isolate in tents – in Australia in 2021".
In WA First Nations communities, the low vaccine coverage "is a very significant concern to all of us".
"It has by far the lowest uptake, with less than 10% of its population 12 years and over fully vaccinated".
"I would think that the first death for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people [...] has been a wake up call for some, especially those who didn't think that COVID would affect them. The reality is sinking in for many of those."
One obstacle is the spread of false claims by god botherers.
"[Aboriginal] Pastor Geoffrey Stokes called out a circular that had been sent around by [a] so-called Indigenous prayer group in the goldfields of Western Australia. And it happened that it was a white bloke from Brisbane who had circulated the misinformation. So that was soon put to bed.
"But there are people and communities, Aboriginal communities that belong to groups like the Assemblies of God and, you know, other such religions that strongly believe that God will protect them."
"God will not stop COVID killing our people. I'm sorry to the religious leaders who believe that, but I'm telling them that will not happen."
While the national cabinet's plan provides for easing restrictions for the general community at 70% and 80% vaccination levels of those 16 and over, Turner insists that can't apply in Indigenous communities.
"No, no, no, 70 to 80% will not be good enough for our communities. We are aiming for 100% vaccination of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people 12 years and over by the end of this year."
The Doherty modelling is the government’s underpinning for a proposed easing of COVID restrictions once we reach targets of 70% and 80% of the adult population vaccinated.
But the exit path has put Scott Morrison at odds with Western Australia and Queensland, states which would inevitably have to give up their present status of having little or no COVID.
The model’s priority is pivoting from reaching zero cases, to limiting COVID by vaccination, minimising serious illness, hospitalisation, and deaths.
This week, Professor Sharon Lewin, Director of the Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity joins the podcast to explain into the much-discussed modelling and its policy implications.
In the event things open up, our “first line of defence” will be the public health capacity, says Lewin. The ability to trace, test, isolate, and quarantine limits the explosion of cases and keeps the transmission potential “less than one”.
Some critics have said the 70-80% target won’t sufficiently protect the entire population from COVID. Lewin notes that amongst the varying models there is agreement we cannot open up on vaccine uptake alone.
“You can’t just open up a 70% with nothing else in place. There is no ‘Freedom Day’. You do need these additional public health measures.”
In particular, while “tremendous advances have been made in capabilities[…] it’s not universal across the country. In particular, First Nation communities, which have been prepared and boasted an "effective community lead response” earlier in the pandemic, will require a strengthening of their public health facilities.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the frictions as vaccination rates rise and the debate turns to lifting lockdowns and border restrictions. They also canvass the Morrison government's modest promise on Afghan refugees, and crossbencher Craig Kelly's announcement he'll lead Clive Palmer's United Australia Party at the election.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the lost war in Afghanistan, as Australia tries to secure the evacuation of its citizens and Afghans who assisted the Australian Defence Force. They also canvass the government's hard line towards Afghans who came to Australia by boat and are on temporary protection visas.
Graphic pictures of mayhem confront the world as desperate Afghans attempt to flee their country, after the Taliban's seizure of Kabul.
Australia's moral responsibly to evacuate people who assisted the Australian Defence Force, and may now face Taliban retribution, has become an important part of our exit from this lost war.
The government is mounting a rescue mission for some of these people, as well as for Australians still in the country. But speaking on the podcast, Anthony Albanese describes the government's effort as "the latest example of too little, too late".
Meanwhile, in Australia at present there are more than 4,200 Afghan refugees on temporary visas. Foreign Minister Marise Payne said on Tuesday that "at this stage" no visa holder will be asked to return to Afghanistan. Scott Morrison said the government "had no plans" to return any of these people.
Albanese says the government should give them permanent residency.
"The idea that people, for example many of whom are Hazaras, are on temporary protection visas - the idea that the circumstances are going to change, that these are temporary circumstances - is just not real" Albanese says.
"It doesn't acknowledge the circumstances which these people confront. And we want them to fully participate in Australian society, and they should have the capacity to become full Australian citizens."
When Treasurer Josh Frydenberg joined the podcast in December, the outlook was positive. While the forecast deficit was massive at nearly $200 billion, it had been revised down and the prospects for growth and employment revised up.
Frydenberg said then: "Australians go into Christmas with real cause for optimism and hope".
But the economic climate now is bleaker. And very uncertain.
With the September quarter set to be negative, and the December quarter dependent on New South Wales' ability to get on top of the virus, a second recession can't be ruled out.
But joining The Conversation podcast this week, Frydenberg looks for some silver linings. He says a likely contraction of "about 1.5%" in the September quarter would be considerably less drastic than the 7% contraction the economy saw in the June quarter of last year.
"Consumer spending is about 30% higher today than it was in March and April last year.
"Consumer confidence, similarly, is around 30% higher than it was back then".
And the latest jobs numbers had shown that more than 200,000 people had come off unemployment benefits since that JobKeeper ended.
"So I'm confident that the underlying fundamentals of the Australian economy [are] sound."
With the New South Wales lockdown more than likely to continue into a third month and other lockdowns around the country, the government has remained steadfast in its decision to not reinstate JobKeeper, relying instead on COVID disaster payments to support workers.
A criticism levelled against the JobKeeper program was that money was wasted going to companies which ended up making profits, and then not returning the funds.
The treasurer calls JobKeeper "a remarkable success" which "restored confidence immediately after it was announced.
"If we had said at the time, you know, Grattan Enterprises would have to pay it all back if somehow they got through the crisis, the likelihood would have been that[...]some businesses wouldn't have taken that money and therefore would have let their staff go."
Once borders are open, and we are back to some sort of normality, Frydenberg looks to migration to assist in the economic recovery, and in countering "the impacts and consequences of an ageing population" outlined in this year's Intergenerational Report.
Frydenberg supports a migration programme which strikes "the right balance".
A program which "goes to our humanity with the resettlement of refugees[...]goes to the needs, the immediate needs of the economy with skilled workers, and[...] goes to the harmony of our society, with family reunions and the like."
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversation politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss the House of Representatives' slapdown of controversial Nationals MP George Christensen after his attack on COVID-19 lockdowns and mask-wearing.
They also canvass Scott Morrison's initial response to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report.
In the lead up to the 2019 election, the Shorten opposition attacked the government's planned 2024 tax cuts, and promised to curb negative gearing and halve the capital gains tax discount.
Last week, the Albanese opposition said it wouldn't try to unwind the tax cuts and would leave negative gearing intact - a pragmatic decision designed to make the party a small target at next year's election.
Speaking to The Conversation in the Mural Hall in Parliament House – COVID restrictions prevented a visit to his office – Shadow Treasurer Jim Chalmers defended the change of stance:
"I think people understand that the highest priority right now needs to be the management of this pandemic, which is doing such damage to the economy and to local communities, and also what the economy and our society will look like after Covid-19. And what we're able to do now is to focus properly on that. And that's why we took that decision and why we announced it immediately."
In a populist move this week, the opposition called on the government to provide a $300 incentive to anyone who was fully vaccinated by 1 December. Such an initiative – vehemently rejected by the government – would cost $6 billion, which Chalmers concedes "is not a small amount of money" but "is a fraction of the money that the government has given in JobKeeper for companies whose profits actually went up and didn't need JobKeeper support. $13 billion at least wasted there."
Chalmers says $300 per vaccinated person would be "a lot of bang for buck in terms of public health outcomes, but also in terms of economic outcomes."
If successful at the election, as treasurer Chalmers would be inheriting an enormous debt, with not much room for spending. Despite this, he says Labor's approach to spending "won't be held to constraints that the government's not held to."
"The government spent a 100 billion dollars in one night on budget night[...]not a dollar offset, and nobody's saying to the government 'what taxes are you raising to pay for that 100 billion dollars in spending?'
"The commitment I give to the Australian people as the alternative treasurer is our budget position will reflect the needs of the Australian people and the economy[...]
"It will be more responsible than the Liberals. We won't be taking a lecture on responsibility from the most wasteful government since Federation, and our budget settings will reflect the economy."
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle talk about the outcome of last Friday’s National Cabinet meeting - an updated four-point plan for exiting COVID restrictions via vaccination levels of 70% and 80%.
They also discuss Scott Morrison’s vehement rejection of Anthony Albanese’s proposal that Australians be given $300 incentive to get vaccinated.
Since his retirement from parliament in 2012, Bob Brown has remained an activist on environmental causes - from campaigning against the Adani coal mine to fighting the threat to Tasmania’s Tarkine forest.
Brown was leader when after the 2010 election the Greens helped Julia Gillard retain government by entering an agreement with her. A key part of that deal was the requirement that a price on carbon be introduced.
These days Brown labels Labor “Liberal-lite” - condemning what he sees at its timid stance on climate policy as a lost opportunity to catch up with “public sentiment”.
“No doubt there are people with Labor, a younger set of people who can see this, but the old guard, and that includes Anthony Albanese, don’t see it…”
“Labor is on the edge, trying to make itself look a little bit greener that Morrison[…]but that really doesn’t cut the mustard”.
On Friday, the UNESCO World Heritage committee will vote on whether the Great Barrier Reef should be declared “in danger” - trying to head that off, Australian government has proposed an amendment that the decision be delayed until 2023. Brown believes the listing should have been made “years ago” because the reef is “not only in danger, it’s dying”.
As well as her interviews with politicians and experts, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where she discusses the news with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle talk about where we never expected to be in mid 2021 – 13 million people locked down in three states.
They also canvass the "car park rorts" in which marginal electorates were brazenly targeted in a $389 million car park construction program for the 2019 election, and if such misconduct will ever be stemmed.
Barnaby Joyce's sudden elevation to deputy prime minister has put a significant obstacle in the way of Scott Morrison's creep this year to a commitment to a net zero 2050 target. More generally, it has made internal Coalition relations more unpredictable.
In this podcast Joyce reiterates his opposition to embracing the target, while leaving some wriggle room. "With the information that I've got at the moment, it's not on [...] And that's because there is no information."
"What we know at the moment is that there is no list of 'these are the costs to people in regional Australia'." Still, he says, it's not a binary choice. And he stresses that the final decision on the Nationals' stance will be taken in its party room, although he wouldn't expect a formal vote.
Pressed about his controversial dropping of the resources portfolio from cabinet to the outer ministry in his reshuffle, Joyce redefines "cabinet", saying resources is "still in cabinet, even if it is in the outer cabinet".
On the proposal for a coal-fired power station at Collinsville in Queensland – which most observers do not believe will get off the ground – Joyce says he would have "no objections" to the government underwriting the project, but he'd want to see the details before being more positive. "I'm very consistent in the approach I take, which is before you want me to underwrite what you're doing, let me have a look at what it costs and then I'll decide."
Asked about his future if the Coalition wins the election, Joyce says he would intend to stay the full term as leader – but he is also "quite open" to transitioning the party. "I'm not going to hang around like Sir Earle Page [leader of the Country party 1921-39]".
Meanwhile he wants to grow the number of Nationals seats at the election, not just hold onto current ones. He says his eyes are on Lingiari (NT), opportunities in NSW's Hunter Valley and Senate positions.
As well as her usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this episode, politics + society deputy editor Judith Ireland and Michelle discuss the allegation by former Liberal MP Julia Banks that she was inappropriately touched at Parliament House by an unnamed cabinet minister, and her labelling of Prime Minister Scott Morrison as a "menacing, controlling wallpaper".
They also canvass the government's decision to reduce the intake of returning international travellers, and the four-stage plan announced to eventually exit the pandemic's restrictions.
Following her pre-selection victory, Alice Springs deputy mayor Jacinta Nampijinpa Price will now be the Country Liberal party's Senate candidate at the election.
This essentially assures her of victory. The Northern Territory returns one Senate seat to each side of politics.
Price has made a name for herself already as a conservative Indigenous voice, critical of what she labels a paternalistic approach to Aboriginal autonomy. She is also well known for her advocacy work - bringing attention to high rates of domestic violence in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities.
Her stances on a range of issues have made her a controversial figure within the broad Indigenous community.
In discussing her political agenda, Price highlights affording traditional owners the ability to create business opportunities and own homes on their own land.
"A lot of traditional owners, and in my own experience as a traditional owner, have not had the opportunity to be able to access their own country for economic development opportunities and, and/or have the opportunity to own their own homes."
Price doesn't consider constitutional recognition for Indigenous peoples a policy priority, favouring instead "practical measures that are going to generate outcomes."
"I certainly don't mind the idea of being recognised in our nation's constitution[...][but] I'm more focused on the more immediate, practical issues, trying to provide outcomes for the betterment of Indigenous Australians, as opposed to, you know, symbolic gestures."
Nor does she call herself "a fan of" the voice to parliament, a proposal which would give Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders a say in law and policy affecting them.
"I think we do have Indigenous voices in parliament - I guess it's upon them who have been there already to actually be doing a better job[...]if we need a voice to parliament, then clearly that's saying something about the representatives who have been there already."
"If we're reaching for equality, true equality, then that means that Indigenous Australians be on the same footing as all other Australians"
As well as her usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle discuss Scott Morrison's Monday night announcement encouraging younger people to discuss with their doctors getting the AstraZeneca vaccine - despite this not being recommended by the official technical expert group which advises the government
They also dive into how the government's handling of the pandemic is affecting its wider support, and the opposition's ability to cut through in the wake of the pandemic.
The government's response to the UNESCO recommendation that the Great Barrier Reef be listed as "in danger" was one of surprise and shock.
The recommendation will be considered at UNESCO's World Heritage Committee meeting next month.
While the proposal calls attention to the need to address the effect of climate change and other factors which are degrading the reef, the government alleges it's part of wider global politics.
Environment Minister Sussan Ley is adamant UNESCO's recommendation represents "international politics at play" which have "subverted the normal and proper process."
In the background, the government points to China – which chairs the World heritage Committee – but Ley treads carefully.
"Others can make judgements about what those international politics are..."
"If the politicisation of a process that we have constructively contributed to for over 40 years is now going to be the norm, the points that I will make with the 21 member countries [on the committee] and others who might influence them is that this is the moment to reflect on what the World Heritage Committee is all about and consider the risk to your own properties.
"Because if the entire system is politicised, then we aren't going to be acting in the interests of the natural heritage values of these places."
Her opposition "shadow" Terri Butler wouldn't speculate on what might be underlying the decision but "Australians would be very disappointed if they thought there was anything behind the decision other than concern for the reef."
"What's important here is for people to be able to have confidence in UNESCO in this decision making process."
Butler says heading off the listing is important not just to avoid discouraging tourists from overseas but also for Australia's image on the global stage.
"It's really important [the government] demonstrate to the world they're serious about protecting the reef, preserving it for future generations. And if they do that, they should also be in a position to fight really hard to avoid this particular listing.
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle dive into the National party spill, which resulted in Barnaby Joyce grabbing back his old leadership job, what this means for the Nationals at the election, and the climate change policy position this puts Scott Morrison in.
They also discuss the recommendation by UNESCO to list the Great Barrier Reef as "in danger", and the suggestion by the government this classification was politically motivated.
With Scott Morrison overseas, Nationals leader Michael McCormack has been Acting Prime Minister this week. In this podcast, he speaks about the free trade agreement with the UK, climate change, coal, the Nationals, and China.
With speculation about whether Morrison will embrace a 2050 net zero target before the Glasgow climate conference, the attitude of the Nationals is critical and McCormack is under pressure from a vocal group in his party that is strongly against the target.
McCormack says the National party will not supporting signing up to the target this year.
When it is put to him, “we can be sure that the Nats would not embrace that target?” his reply is definite. “Correct”.
On coal, unlike many in the government, McCormack believes the controversial proposal for a coal-fired power station at Collinsville in Queensland can be a goer. A feasibility study is being conducted for the project. (It is understood a draft report has been produced already.)
McCormack says the study is “very much on its way”. Shire Energy CEO Ashley Dodd “texts me every day of every week and highlights the progress. And last week there were some really, really positive news.”
Asked whether he thinks the government will be able to support the project, McCormack says, “provided every box [including environmental ones] is ticked, yes”.
“If the proponents come forward with everything that they’re required to do, then I can see no reason why it wouldn’t be supported. And of course, it’s not just the federal government. It’s other entities, too, which need to come on board.”
As well as Michelle Grattan’s usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes “Word from The Hill”, where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations’s politics team.
In this episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn and Michelle dive into Tuesday's announcement that the Bioela Tamil family will now live in Perth while their court proceedings are underway, after being incarcerated on Christmas Island since 2019. They also discuss Scott Morrison's meeting with US President Joe Biden, and Michael McCormack's sitting in the PM's parliamentary chair this week.
Senator Rex Patrick is currently challenging the secrecy around Scott Morrison's national cabinet. He's brought legal action – the outcome is pending – to attempt to have the minutes of this body, which includes federal, state and territory leaders, made public. The government claims the documents are protected by an exemption for cabinet documents in the freedom of information act, while Patrick claims national cabinet lacks some of the essential features that would afford it that cover.
Patrick's also pressing for improvements in the freedom information law, which has become increasingly obstacle-ridden, to allow applicants more rights. It's perhaps no wonder former senator Nick Xenophon, for whom Patrick once worked, labelled him "Inspector Rex".
On a very different front, as a former submariner Patrick has been highly critical of the government's Future Submarine Program, which has contracted a French company to build 12 submarines for the Royal Australian Navy. Patrick says the company is taking too long, and charging too much, to make submarines which may fail to achieve the necessary sovereign capability.
In this podcast, Patrick says Scott Morrison should take the opportunity during his coming meeting with French President Macron to issue an ultimatum that changes must be made.
"You know, despite the good relationship we may have with France, this is a matter of national security, and it's also a matter of a huge amount of public expenditure. And the prime minister must put the Australian public before that relationship. And I think it would be wise for him to be just very frank and honest with the French president."
As well as Michelle Grattan's usual interviews with experts and politicians about the news of the day, Politics with Michelle Grattan now includes "Word from The Hill", where all things political will be discussed with members of The Conversations's politics team.
In this week's episode, politics + society editor Amanda Dunn discusses with Michelle current issues and what's coming up.
The pair dive into Speaker of The House Tony Smith's efforts to reform Question Time, Scott Morrison's agenda for the G7 Summit - taking place this weekend in the United Kingdom, and Victoria's slow emergence out of lockdown.
Despite this week's strong economic figures, the pandemic is not as distant in the rearview mirror as many had hoped it would be by now.
In Victoria, cluster outbreaks have forced the state into a new lockdown. With cases amongst aged care workers and residents, the state waits nervously as health authorities battle to contain the situation.
As Shadow Minister for Health and Ageing, Mark Butler is focused on scrutinising the federal government's handling of pandemic and the aged care sector, and what more should be done.
"The problem is distribution[...] We need to ramp up the aged care vaccination and disability care vaccination. And that just means the Commonwealth needing to engage more teams to do the job.
"They're doing that in Melbourne right now. But still, we have hundreds and hundreds of aged care facilities that haven't yet received their second dose. And 98% of residents in disability care haven't received their second dose. These are priority groups. So that is what the Commonwealth should be doing as a matter of urgency."
Butler is a former national president of the Labor party and sits on its national executive. This week, rebel backbencher Joel Fitzgibbon called for Labor to scrap the rank and file component in selecting its leader. Currently the Labor leader is elected on a 50-50 basis between the caucus and party membership. Butler firmly rejects the Fitzgibbon call for change.
Indeed, he says he's held a "strong view" for "many, many years" that there should be more rank and file decision making in the party - not less. But the complication is that with party membership decreasing, membership decisions skew a certain way.
"There is an obligation. You can't rely upon a shrinking group of party members[...]but what I do know is that it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy if we continue to disrespect our members and just expect them to roll up to polling booths every election day and not really do much else."
When Katy Gallagher joined the podcast this week, she was running between sessions of Senate estimates.
Among other issues, she and other Labor senators pressed (with mixed results) for answers about the handling of the Brittany Higgins matter.
Gallagher has another role in the pursuit of accountability. As Chair of the Senate's Select Committee on COVID-19, she's spearheading the quest for detail on what the government is doing on both the health and economic fronts.
As shadow minister for finance, she's also been vocal in the opposition's attack on the budget - in particular the government's failure to increase real wages despite considerable spending.
Gallagher speaks about the difficulty in getting substantive information.
"We have had pretty critical information withheld from the [COVID] committee..."
"All of the modelling and assumptions that went into the economic rescue packages, you know, hundreds of billions of dollars going out the door. All the health advice that's been provided to the government, the decisions that have been taken about border closures, about vaccinations, about why they went with certain companies and not others.
"The government has refused to provide that information. And I think that creates a problem for us in properly scrutinising it."
In last week's budget, $17.7 billion was allocated to the aged care sector, in response to the damning findings of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality & Safety.
The commission's final report painted a grim picture of a sector in need of sweeping overhaul - with people in residential care requiring a more supportive – and in some cases safer - environment, and people at home desperately short of enough care packages.
The government's response includes an additional 80,000 homecare packages, funding for better staffing (including a mandate of 200 minutes of care for each resident, each day), and a commitment to a new aged care act.
Richard Colbeck, Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services, as well as Minister for Sport, joins the podcast to discuss aged care policy, and the coming Olympics.
One big question in aged care, which hasn't been tackled, is whether wealthier people should contribute more to funding their costs. Colbeck says "we've had a really close look at that" and "there's probably more work to do in that space".
"But I think there's broad acceptance that where people can afford to make a contribution to support them as they age, they should do so. We'll continue to consider that."
The Tokyo Summer Olympics, originally slated for 2020 but now due to commence in July, have attracted considerable criticism given the state of coronavirus in Japan. Only recently the nation's lockdown was extended, with new cases in the thousands being reported daily, and there are strong calls for the games to be abandoned.
Colbeck concedes "there will be COVID" at the Olympics. But the International Olympic Committee has "made arrangements" for any athlete or official who contracts the virus. He also described the work of the medical team at the Australian Institute of Sport as "world-leading".
This year's budget, handed down on Tuesday, boasts plenty of winners and minimal direct losers. Spending is lavish, with the government doing its utmost to avoid offending voters.
The big spending commitments include:
- $17.7 billion for aged care over five years
- $2.3 billion for mental health
- $1.7 billion in changes to childcare
- $1.1 billion for women's safety
- $1.9 billion for the rollout of the COVID vaccine
- $20.7 billion in support for business through tax breaks
- $2.7 billion in new apprenticeships
- $15 billion over a decade for infrastructure
- $1.2 billion for the promotion of a digital economy.
Simon Birmingham, finance minister, and Jim Chalmers, shadow treasurer, are our post-budget guests on the podcast.
This is Birmingham's first budget as finance minister. Usually, it's the finance minister's unpopular task to find spending cuts – but this time, these are minimal. Birmingham's message to critics on the right of politics, who are claiming the government has given up the debt fight, is:
"You don't manage to achieve budget sustainability and ultimately balanced budgets some time down the track without actually maintaining and having a strong economy that has strong jobs growth. And so this time, where we have an uncertain international environment [and] fragility in terms of confidence, because of those global uncertainties, we need to make sure we maintain the COVID recovery."
And he notes, "debt is actually forecast to be lower over over each of the next 10 years than was the case in last year's budget."
The budget includes assumptions that the international border will open around mid 2022, and that the Australian population would be fully vaccinated by the end of this year. Asked how "solid" these assumptions are, Birmingham says:
"We have used best assumptions that we think are cautious assumptions and realistic ones. But we equally acknowledge with honesty that these are challenging times, uncertain times.
"And so they are just that - assumptions."
On the issue of debt, Chalmers says it's not just the level of the debt that matters, "it's the quality of the spending".
He says the budget is "riddled with rorts" and "weighed down with waste".
"There are new slush funds in last night's budget, and that means we're not getting the bang for buck that we need to be getting in terms of jobs and other other important objectives."
Labor has homed in on flat wages, arguing working Australia's are "copping a cut in their real wages".
Ultimately, the budget has failed working people, says Chalmers.
"If the government is prepared to intervene in the economy as they have been and spray around what is an extraordinary amount of money, then you'd think that working people would actually get a slice of the recovery."
"It's a pretty extraordinary admission of failure."
What do business and union leaders believe should be in a budget that is designed in part to pitch to women?
Jennifer Westacott, CEO of the Business Council of Australia, says as well as spending on childcare – which we already know about – the budget should improve women’s access to superannuation.
“Women have been very, very disadvantaged in that superannuation system - they are retiring with very small savings.”
“The superannuation and the childcare go hand in hand because we know that the reason many women don’t have adequate super is because they’ve taken big stints out of work and they haven’t built that savings nest egg. So those two things should be seen in tandem.”
Michele O'Neil, president of the ACTU, says for women the budget “needs to include commitments to addressing insecure work and low wages [and] to make sure that the support for early childhood education and care delivers free and universal childcare. Because this is what will matter in terms of women’s participation at work. We have a relatively low rate of women’s participation.”
“If we just increased women to the same level of participation for those key years of 25-45 as men, we’d see a $70 billion increase in GDP and a $30 billion increase in household incomes.”
"The warfare of the 21st century" is going to be "fought in cyberspace before kinetic shots are fired" says leading national security expert David Irvine.
And perhaps the fight has already begun, with Australia's institutions, businesses, and citizens subject to a near constant barrage of cyber attacks.
Previously chair and now a board member of the Cyber Security Cooperative Research Centre, Irvine has a deep knowledge of the cyber risks posed to Australia and Australians by both nation states and criminals.
His career has included heading both ASIS, which manages Australia's overseas spying activities, and ASIO, responsible for domestic protection.
Irvine describes cybercrime as a "massive issue", and say that compared to countries like "China, Russia,[...]Iran, and North Korea" the West is lagging behind in its defensive cyber capability.
"I think almost every Western country is probably behind the game in its defences."
Part of this is the nature of cyber incursions. "One of the rules in cybercrime is that the criminal is always half a step ahead of the protector."
What can be done? Last year the government committed $1.67 billion over 10 years to combating cybercrime, but Irvine calls in particular for a "public awareness campaign" to get the message through strongly.
"I think back to the old days of HIV and the Grim Reaper, and my sense is that we actually need a very hard hitting campaign that brings home to individuals and businesses[...] the threat that they are under and the sort of resilience that they need to develop as individuals, as companies, and as a nation."
Irvine is also chair of the Foreign Investment Review Board, and is a former ambassador to China. He says of the current tensions with China, and warnings about "the drums of war":
"Ultimately, I think we depend on China and the United States to develop a modus vivendi which concedes some interests but protects others. Because the alternative is really too horrendous to contemplate."
Sunday is ANZAC day - and this year it comes at a particularly important time for Australia’s military image.
Last week, Scott Morrison announced Australia’s remaining troops will leave Afghanistan by September, following President Biden’s announcement of the United States withdrawal.
One negative legacy of Australia’s participation in this conflict is documented in the Brereton report on Australia war crimes, which detailed alleged incidents of unlawful killing and cruelty by some special forces troops.
Among the report’s recommendations was the revocation of the Meritorious Unit Citation that had been awarded to some 3,000 soldiers.
The Chief of the Australian Defence Force, Angus Campbell, agreed with the recommendation. But critics were fierce and this week the new Defence Minister Peter Dutton said the award would not be revoked.
Executive Director of the Australia Defence Association Neil James joins the podcast, to discuss the withdrawal from Afghanistan, the strategic risk China poses, and the high profile new minister in the portfolio.
James is concerned the departure of international forces from Afghanistan will lead to more instability.
“By withdrawing and without a peace agreement with the Taliban, it’s going to be a reasonable problem. The simple thing about all wars is they always end when one side gives up or both sides get tired. And in this case, unfortunately, the message being sent to the Taliban is that the international community has given up.”
On China, James is concerned about any “number of flash points that could easily cause a war, even if only accidentally”.
Taiwan “is the big flash point.”
“President Xi will seek to legitimise his presidency by, in his words, absorbing Taiwan back into the motherland. That will automatically cause a war for the simple reason that Taiwan is a functioning democracy and a lot of the world’s democracies will probably object to that. That’s the biggest flash point.”
On the controversial Dutton decision to override Campbell over the citation, James believes the minister did the wrong thing.
“I think probably, to be brutally frank, he was ill advised. And I think if he [had] bothered to consult a bit more broadly and understood the implications of what he was doing, he may not have done it.”
“[The revocation] needs to be done for the simple reason that the revocation of the citation isn’t an Australian issue - it’s an international issue. We’re showing the world that we’re taking the Brereton report seriously.
"We admit the war crimes occurred even if we have difficulty convicting anyone of it, eventually. They certainly definitely occurred. And therefore, we have to be seen to be doing something about it.
"And by cancelling the revocation, we’re actually sending the wrong message internationally about Australia’s commitment to international law. But we’re also sending the wrong message internally within the defence force about unprofessional behaviour.”
While James thinks Dutton was “the only bloke who could have taken over the ministry after [Linda] Reynolds” was moved, he remains a strong defender of Reynolds.
Even before the Brittany Higgins matter, Reynolds faced considerable criticism from commentators. James believes there was a sexist element in some of the attacks on her performance in the portfolio, and he condemns those who thought Australia couldn’t be “taken seriously as a country when both the foreign minister and the defence minister were female”.
“I mean, that’s just absurd in the 21st century. It was actually absurd for most the late 20th century.”
Former Australia Post CEO Christine Holgate has given evidence to a Senate inquiry into her dramatic exit from Australia Post.
Holgate left her position last year, when the prime minister denounced her in parliament for giving Cartier watches as rewards to Australia Post executives.
Victim of a hit job, Holgate inflicted damaging hits of her own – delivering blows against Scott Morrison and Australia Post chair Lucio Di Bartolomeo, and following up her evidence with a media blitz.
She accuses Morrison of bullying and says Di Bartolomeo should resign.
Queensland Nationals senator Matt Canavan, who sat in on her appearance, also believes Di Bartolomeo should go.
“The CEO of Australia Post, just like any government organisation, is not appointed by the minister or the government. The government appoints a board and then the board, under the chair’s direction, hires a CEO.
"The big main job of the chair is to find a good CEO and give them good direction. And that hasn’t occurred here.
"And I think, therefore, the buck must stop with Lucio.”
Despite this, Canavan doesn’t believe an apology is owed by the prime minister for his “parliamentary reaction”, as it was “understandable and everyone had a similiar reaction”. An apology is required from the government, however, for the “dismount, how we’ve handedled the situation post the initial scandal”.
Canavan belongs to the group within the Nationals known for being pro-coal, stirring the pot, and putting pressure on leader Michael McCormack. On this podcast, he discusses the Nationals’ election prospects, as well as the possible return to parliament of former Nationals leader and deputy prime minister John Anderson, who is seeking preselection for a Sneate run.
“[John Anderson is] making a major contribution to the intellectual richness of our country[…] he’s quite a thought leader. I think having the platform of the Senate would amplify that voice a bit. I think he’d also play a very stabilising and educating sort of role in our party room.”
As of Tuesday, only 920,334 doses of the coronavirus vaccine have been administered - a fraction of the four million doses the Morrison government had promised by end-March.
The rollout's complications and failures have sparked a backlash from some GPs, pharmacists, and states.
The federal government says the problems are mainly supply issues – notably, the failure of millions of doses to arrive from overseas. Also, CSL has had trouble quickly ramping up its production.
At the same time, there have been glitches in the logistics of delivery to doctors and the states.
This week Stephen Duckett joins the podcast to critique the rollout. Currently director of the health and aged care programme at the Grattan Institute, he was formerly secretary of the federal health department and so has seen the health bureaucracy from the inside.
Duckett is highly critical of how the rollout has gone, with the government over-hyping expectations.
"The government hasn't met a single one of its targets so far. They had targets about four million people by the end of March. They had a target, about more than 500,000 residential aged care workers and residents by mid-March.
"Now, sure, it's the biggest logistic exercise we have ever seen, but the government has had eight months or so to prepare for it.
"I think the government should have set reasonable targets. It should have said, look, we know it's really, really important to get the vaccine rollout started, but we are reliant on overseas."
"The prime minister said he wanted to under promise and over deliver. He did the reverse."
One issue Duckett identifies has been the politicisation of the process.
"There's been a huge number of vaccine announcements. Every micro-possibility has been wrung out of every announcement. We've got photos of vaccines coming off planes. We've got announcements that we're thinking about having a contract."
"I think[...]the commonwealth initially thought it was all going to go very smoothly and they'd coast into the election very, very comfortably on the back of a successful vaccination rollout programme.
"So I think it had a political overlay from the start."
In the passionate debate over the treatment of women in workplaces, and particularly the extent of violence and harassment, the voice of Indigenous women, especially those living in isolated communities, has gone largely unheard.
Linda Burney, speaking at the ALP’s National Conference this week, strongly advocated for equality and opportunity for all in Australia. She called for a constitutionally-enshrined voice for First Nations people in parliament, commitment to realising the Uluru Statement in full, and a renewed focus on ‘truth-telling’.
As Shadow Minister for Families and Social Services, and for Indigenous Australians, Burney joins the podcast to discuss the voice of Indigenous people, especially in light of the current cultural movement.
Domestic violence against women in Indigenous communities is a serious issues - a 2018 report by the Australian Institute for Health and Welfare assessed Indigenous women as 32 times as likely to be hospitalized due to family violence as non-Indigenous women.
Burney sees the abuse partly in historical terms.
“Think about the Stolen Generation…so many women that were removed were sexually assaulted and ended up in dreadful situations. Now they became mothers, and those mothers became mothers, and that trauma is handed down.”
Burney calls for change on at a “local community level”
“The Aboriginal women that I speak to don’t necessarily want this to end up with a man with a criminal conviction and the possibility of going to jail.
"What they want to see is for the violence to stop and for men to get help. And where I’ve seen domestic violence programmes in the Aboriginal community that are really successful, is at a local community level. Because the community has to own the problem, before it’s dealt with.”
And what about the attitude of Indigenous men?
“I don’t think aboriginal men are resistant to change. We have in the Aboriginal community a very strong movement in terms of mens’ groups.
"Men realise that there is a problem. They realise that they’re part of the problem. But we have to find ways to make them part of the solution as well.”
Over the last month, as more and more stories of sexually explicit behaviour and misconduct within the walls of Parliament House have been revealed, the “culture” of politics has come into question.
One particular issue is the role and representation of women, and the need for more female voices to express the interests – and pain and frustrations – of women across the country.
As Sussan Ley puts it:
“I feel overwhelmingly that the culture of this place has got to change.”
Ley, Senator Marise Payne’s “proxy” as minister for women in the House of Representatives, represents the regional seat of Farrer in southern NSW. She acknowledges there is much work to be done in educating the diverse members of her electorate about how far the whole gender debate has moved.
While there was a small women’s march in her electorate - in Albury - she notes the silent majority who are desperate for change:
“Women on farms, women who are powerless in their relationships because they wouldn’t even be able to talk about these things at their kitchen table or, in some cases, women who aren’t allowed to leave the house because of the nature of their personal relationships.
"There were women silently cheering this from everywhere.”
Ley was one of the first government MPs to voice her support for quotas within the Liberal Party - to afford more women political opportunities.
Talking to Michelle Grattan, Ley advocates for what she calls for a “smart quota system” in contrast to a “blunt instrument”.
“I’m uncomfortable with something that would say ‘okay, your seat’s a woman seat, your seats not’. I mean, that doesn’t make any sense to me.”
Under her idea, “in [the Liberal Party] constitution, it will say we accept that we will have 40% or 30% of women candidates in our seats.
"It then has to say not just women candidates, because sometimes candidates have a very small chance of winning in safe opposition seats. So you’d have to say we’ve got seats that we describe as winnable…and unwinnable.”
“And the ones that step forward in seats where there’s not so much chance would get very well supported, so they wouldn’t be left to fend for themselves.”
On Monday, women across the nation marched, demanding justice, safety and equality. But the government's response was lacklustre, with Scott Morrisona and the Minister for Women Marise Payne refusing to go outside to the crowd.
Morrison later chose his words badly when he said: "Not far from here, such marches, even now are being met with bullets, but not here in this country".
Independent MP Zali Steggall described Morrison's comments as "incredibly sad" and "just stunning".
A former lawyer and olympian, Steggall is currently championing two private member's bills - a proposal for a national climate change framework, and an amendment to the sex discrimination act which would allow judges, MPs, and statutory appointees to be prosecuted for sexual harassment. Steggall is disappointed in the government's response to the strong push for women's rights. "I've been quite baffled to understand the Prime Minister's response to this situation and the [rape] allegations."
And she doesn't believe Payne has been much better. "I've been absolutely, really disappointed with the minister for women's response."
She is somewhat more encouraged by the government's changing attitude towards climate change, noting Morrison's language has changed "dramatically" in the last 12 months. But simply saying he wants to get to net zero "as soon as possible" is not good enough, she says.
"That's not the certainty that business and the private sector are looking for. They are looking for it to be legislated, and with a clear pathway."
Christian Porter has unequivocally denied the historic rape allegations levelled against him, and says he is determined to stay in his job as attorney-general.
Both Scott Morrison and Porter are adamant the "rule of law" in this country places the attorney-general beyond prosecution, now that the NSW police have closed the case.
Porter is the country's first law officer and many argue that requires a stiffer test of suitability.
This week UNSW professor of law Fleur Johns joins the podcast, to discuss the legal role of the attorney-general, how allegations of this kind can affect the performance of his duties, and the validity of the "rule of law" argument.
The role of the office of the attorney-general is both one of "actual powers" and "a repository of great symbolic power," Johns says.
This symbolic power is compromised by "serious allegations that go to the ability of a person to exercise power over another person in a way that is responsible."
"Allegations that are made of a serious abuse of power having been conducted could erode...public trust, especially when those allegations have not had an opportunity to be tested, as is the case here."
Johns "wholeheartedly" rejects the view an independent inquiry into the rape allegations would compromise the rule of law.
"It's absolutely par for the course that the rule of law is delivered through a range of different procedural mechanisms."
"The testing of these allegations...with the appropriate protections to ensure the rule of law, would actually be a way of ensuring that that ideal of the rule of law is defended and promoted.
"[It would show] that we do experience a sense of being governed by laws and legal processes and legal institutions, rather than by particular men and women who happen to be in power at any one time."
The Royal Commission into Aged Care has now delivered its final report, and its findings are an indictment of the inadequacies of the present system. The report calls for a refocus within the aged care system, placing the people receiving care at the centre.
However the feasibility and affordability of the 148 recommendations are yet to be assessed.
Patricia Sparrow is CEO of Aged & Community Services Australia, a peak body which represents not-for-profit members providing residential care for some 450,000 people throughout the country.
Speaking to Michelle Grattan, she says she is disappointed the commmission did not provide estimates of the funding needed to reform the system.
“Royal commission research showed that Australia spends around 1.2% of its GDP on aged care, but other comparable countries in the OECD, the average they spend is around 2.5%.
"I’m not saying that’s exactly what’s needed, but I think it gives us a sense of the scale and the scope of what’s going to need to be considered.”
As for fears the government might fall short of serious change when it releases its full response around budget time, “I think the indications are that they will do a serious response, but [there have been] 20 reports over 20 years and that hasn’t happened.”
“We want to ensure that…there is a desire to fundamentally reform the system. Because anything short is not going to cut it.”
The revelation of the alleged rape of former Liberal staffer Brittany Higgins and subsequent allegations of sexual misconduct have sparked multiple inquiries into the culture of parliament house.
It's a subject on which Kate Ellis is an expert. Ellis was a Labor MP from 2004 to 2019, and held various ministries in the Labor government. She was then – and still is – the youngest person to become a federal minister.
Ellis retired to spend more time with her young family.
Her coming book, Sex, Lies and Question Time, published in April, discusses the history of women in parliament, their triumphs, but also the adversities faced by female parliamentarians and staff. It draws on contemporary accounts.
Ellis describes her time as a parliamentarian as "the best job in the world" but says "if you're a woman in our federal parliament, you are treated differently than if you are a man."
She chose to "overstep the line" as an employer, when she was a minister, to warn staff of the hazards of the life and culture around parliament.
"There are several occasions where I would sit my staff member down and actually play more of a maternal role...kind of talking about the culture, making sure that they were okay and making sure that they knew that they could come to me.
"Now, that's not the traditional role of an employer. Normally what people do outside of their strict work hours is up to them. But just having seen enough of the Canberra culture, I felt that it was my responsibility to play that role. And it's something that I did on a number of occasions."
Scott Morrison has indicated he wants to embrace a 2050 target of net-zero emissions. That, however, requires bringing the Nationals on board, and a vocal group in that party is fighting a fierce rearguard action.
The Nationals deputy leader David Littleproud, who is Minister for Agriculture, is sympathetic to the target - so long as there is a credible path to get there, which won't disadvantage rural Australians.
In this podcast Littleproud says he believes the pathway could be settled this year.
"That's not in my remit. But there is a hope to accelerate that and to make sure that we can provide that [pathway] as quickly as we can. The money's been set aside for a lot of that work and some of that work's already been completed."
As for that Nationals, "our position is we want to see the plan first. Our party room hasn't got to a juncture of dismissing it. We want to see what the plan is and who pays for it."
Asked whether agriculture would have to be exempted for the Nationals to sign up to the 2050 target, Littleproud says, "Well, with respect to ag, I think it cane be part of the solution".
On the ANZ's announcement this week it would stop lending to Australia's biggest coal port, the Port of Newcastle, Littleproud is scathing:
"Well, they're a pathetic joke... We had a banking royal commission and here we are, a bank telling the Australian people about how society should run. That is not their role. Their role is to provide capital."
Last year, Anthony Albanese was criticised for his lack of cut-through during the COVID crisis, as Labor was sidelined by a hyperactive government.
This year, amid ALP leadership speculation and now a shadow ministry reshuffle, Albanese is seeking to assert himself more forcefully, declaring last week “I will be leader of this country after the next election”.
With that election possible within the year, the need for Labor to outline its policies, including on climate change and industrial relations, is becoming more pressing. Albanese is still intent on taking his time on climate policy, where international developments are fast-moving, but the IR policy is imminent.
This week, the opposition leader joins the podcast to discuss the reshuffle, and his and his party’s goals.
“Labor will always stand up for the interests of working people,” he says, and that commitment will be at the heart of its workplace policy.
The policy’s “priorities are very much on job security and income security.”
“Whether it be people in labour hire companies…working next door to someone but earning less money… whether it be people in the new gig economy who are sometimes working for almost nothing in some cases, whether it be issues of workers who are having to bid against each other.”
Albanese says the policy will be in direct contrast to government legislation, drafted last year and now before parliament, which would “cut wages and conditions”.
Will the ALP definitely vote against the government’s measures?
“We’ve said we will not vote for any legislation that cuts wages or cuts conditions such as penalty rates.”
This week's update shows an improvement on the numbers in the budget that was delivered only 10 weeks ago. The prospects for growth and employment have been revised upwards. While the forecast for the deficit remains massive, at nearly $200 billion, it has been revised down.
But even as we return to some sort of normality, it will be many years before the economy resembles its pre-COVID self. And the Parliamentary Budget Office predicts the federal budget won't leave its deficit behind in this decade.
Treasurer Josh Frydenberg joins the podcast to discuss Thursday's budget update and the economy's future.
Frydenberg acknowledges the road back will be tough, for the economy and the budget.
Given the "huge economic shock" of COVID, the "unprecedented spending" will leave us in the red for a long time. "There will be a very challenging fiscal environment for years out of this crisis."
But the economic future looks vastly better than in the hairy initial days of the COVID crisis.
"Very early on it was uncertain, and many of us feared the worst."
"Treasury told me early on in the pandemic that the unemployment rate could reach 10%, and, but for Jobkeeper, reach 15%. That's a very different world to the one that you and I face today."
"Programmes like JobKeeper, the cash flow boost, the JobSeeker Coronavirus Supplement, the $750 payments, now $250 payments to pensioners and to carers and others on income support have very much helped pull Australia through this challenging time.
"Australians go into Christmas with real cause for optimism and hope."
This month Alan Finkel ends his term as Australia's Chief Scientist.
An entrepreneur, engineer, neuroscientist, and educator in his former life, Finkel describes the role he's held since 2016 as consisting of two activities.
There's "reviewing" – briefing government on all matters scientific, including energy and climate change. And then there's "making things up" – developing programs to support the communication of science, technology, innovation, and research across the community.
Writing for The Conversation, Finkel expresses confidence Australia will achieve the "dramatic reduction in emissions" that is "necessary".
However the road has not been easy, with many political setbacks.
"I was certainly somewhat personally disappointed, and disappointed for the country, that the Clean Energy Target wasn't adopted," Finkel tells the podcast.
"On the other hand, I took a lot of comfort from the fact that the other 49 out of 50 recommendations [in his report] were accepted and adopted and most of them have been implemented."
"Those recommendations – a lot of them have been part of the reason that we've been able to introduce solar and wind electricity at extraordinary rates in the last three years."
The debate currently is whether Australia will sign up for zero net emissions by 2050. While Finkel says "that's a question for politicians, not for me", he adds that "we're taking the right measures already consistent with a drive towards zero or low emissions".
These measures, he says, involve cheaper batteries, solar, wind, pumped hydro, and gas as a "backstop", as we transition out of coal fire electricity.
Asked if a new coal-fired power station project could ever be started, Finkel said that to comply with carbon capture and storage, the cost of electricity from the plant would be "five or six times higher" than electricity produced by solar and wind.
"I would never predict anything...but I can say with some degree of confidence that that economics would be challenging". His message was clear.
Chinese official Lijian Zhao’s tweeting an image depicting an Australian soldier holding a knife against a child’s throat and the subsequent angry exchanges is the latest incident in an exceptionally poor year for Australian-Chinese relations.
Tensions deepened after Australia’s call for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus, and the Chinese have hit Australian exports, most recently with punitive tariffs on wine. Diplomacy is of the mega variety; Australian ministers can’t get their calls returned.
Bates Gill is Professor of Asia-Pacific Security Studies at Macquarie University, and has published extensively on Chinese domestic and international affairs. His coming book will focus on the goals driving Chinese foreign policy under Xi Jinping.
Gill predicts Chinese military capability, while limited to the areas closest to its shore, will be more assertive in the next five years.
He says the list of 14 Chinese grievances, recently reported, gives an indication of what China thinks the ideal relationship with Australia would be.
“It would mean keeping our heads down, not criticising the nature and actions of the regime in Beijing and just generally being more accommodating and friendly towards China’s steady rise and ambitions.”
“That’s what they want out of Australia.”
While it’s often said one Australian export China would find hard to hit – because it depends on the supply – is iron ore, Gill sounds a caution.
“Something in the range of 60 or 70%, I believe, of Chinese iron ore imports come from our shores, but they are looking [for] – and there are – other sources out there.”
“We would be naive to think that Beijing and its iron ore importers are not looking and … trying to figure out ways to become less dependent on what they see and understand to be a relationship which is not going in a positive direction
The increase in the compulsory superannuation contribution, legislated to rise next July from 9.5% to 10%, is being fiercely debated following the release of the retirement income report.
In this podcast we hear the views of Brendan Coates, Director of the Household Finances Program at the Grattan Institute and Greg Combet, former Labor minister, and chair of Industry Super Australia.
Coates, who opposes the July and later scheduled rises, says ultimately the money comes out of the worker's pay because employers will increase wages more slowly.
Coates argues the present superannuation arrangements are adequate for most retirees who own their homes, and will be in the future.
Although he says retirees potentially face financial stress if renting, Coates wouldn't favour letting people dip willy nilly into their super for a deposit on their first home. But "if the rate of compulsory super goes to 12% as legislated, I think the right answer is not ... to let them take out their super for housing, it's to let them take out anything above 9.5% each year" for any purpose.
Combet flatly opposes the use of super accounts for housing.
"If we are concerned about housing affordability and trying to lift the level of home ownership in the country, you don't go and cannibalise another part of the retirement income system, the superannuation system.
"You address the issues of housing supply. You address the issues of housing affordability, and you can take some specific public policy measures for helping first home buyers."
In response to the criticism that higher contributions will diminish wage growth, Combet says: "Let's go back to the 90's. Paul Keating promised to get to a 12% super guarantee. John Howard froze it... No compensating pay rises that are discernible anywhere."
The findings of the inquiry by Justice Paul Brereton into the misconduct – including allegations of murder of non-combatants and mistreatment of prisoners – by Australian special forces in Afghanistan are released on Thursday.
Scott Morrison last week warned the findings will be "difficult and hard news" for Australians.
The leadership of the Australian Defence Force will drive a program of reform in the wake of findings that put a deep blemish on what the ADF and most Australians see as the nation's proud military tradition.
Allan Behm, from The Australia Institute, an expert on defence and security issues and a former senior public servant and ministerial adviser, joined the podcast on the eve of the release to discuss the background to the report.
"I think it is going to be quite shocking for many of us. And I think...we will feel a sense of shame."
"It will get many people to think about issues of moral hazard. It will certainly get people to think about what kind of administrative and organisational arrangements within the Australian Defence Force permitted this to happen."
"I think it will cause a lot of Australians to think quite deeply about the moral peril that we expose young soldiers to in warfare.
If reports are true "that prisoners were shot dead, that noncombatants were simply 'wasted', to use the language of warfare, as collateral damage in pursuit of military objectives, many, many ADF people will be very perturbed by that."
Asked about the culture of these soldiers, Behm described the special forces as "elites". "Elites can be highly problematic," he says.
In the wake of the report, there will be the question of whether special forces are needed.
If they are to be retained, "the second thing will then be to decide whether we need to have the special forces quarantined, separate from the rest of our forces...or whether the special forces should be more clearly part of our standing army."
Having the special forces work across a wider base within the military could "militate against the formation of uncontrollable elites or rogue elements".
"And there's history to be dealt with.
"I mean, we have a regiment which is highly decorated and highly recognised. At the same time, it is this regiment and this function, which ... has brought this shame upon us.
"And that will require a lot of evaluation."
Labor's Joel Fitzgibbon this week quit the frontbench, ensuring he'll become even more vocal in his campaign to have Labor's climate policy move to the centre and the party give greater attention to the working class part of its constituency.
Fitzgibbon – who was shadow minister for resources – and climate spokesman Mark Butler have been at loggerheads, and in this podcast Fitzgibbon makes it clear he believes Butler should be moved when Albanese has an expected pre-Christmas reshuffle.
"I think a refresh in that area would be good ... I think someone without his history, someone who doesn't bring baggage, if you like, to the conversation might be better placed to prosecute Labor's case in the broader electorate."
Fitzgibbon was active in Labor's 2013 leadership change back to Kevin Rudd.
He says he supports Albanese's leadership. But asked whether, if it became clear next year Labor was heading to a likely really bad defeat, he would be willing to push for a change, he says: "I think senior people in the party have a responsibility to ensure that the party doesn't go over the proverbial cliff.
"And none of us are as big or bigger than the party itself.
"The party has to be the key interest and its capacity to win government, because millions of people are relying upon us to be a government from time to time. And we owe it to them to be electable."
Sounds like a warning.
In his budget reply, Anthony Albanese said women have suffered most during the pandemic, but were reduced to a footnote in the budget. He promised a Labor government would undertake a generous reshaping of the childcare subsidy to enable more women to join the workforce or to work more hours.
This week, Michelle Grattan talks to Grattan Institute CEO Danielle Wood who, in writing for the Australian Financial Review, described the budget as “blokey”:
“We look at those areas that have received direct support - construction… the energy sector, defence, manufacturing, all of those areas where the government has put direct money into a particular sector - they tend to be male dominated sectors.
"And actually often they’re not the ones that have taken the hardest hit in this recession.
"The sectors that have been hit really hard: hospitality, tourism, the arts, recreation, administrative services tend to be actually slightly more female dominated… we really don’t see any direct assistance for those sectors in the budget. ”
When asked about the budget generally Wood, the president of the Economic Society of Australia, is concerned all the eggs have been put into the “private sector basket”.
“If it doesn’t pay off, then we may see unemployment sticking around for a long time to come.”
In the Grattan institute’s report, co-authored by Wood, and titled Cheaper Childcare, Wood endorsed reform in a similar vein to Albanese’s proposal.
“Our numbers suggest that for every dollar that you spend reforming the subsidy…you return more than two dollars in additional GDP,” she says.
“The Labor reforms… you’re probably talking, if its $2 billion a year… something in the vicinity of $5 billion return each year for GDP.”
With the budget’s expected eye-watering debt and deficit numbers, the question remains whether the huge spending will be enough to fight the coronavirus slump.
Minister for Finance Mathias Cormann and Shadow Minister Katy Gallagher joined the podcast to discuss the budget’s entrails.
The government has faced criticism for benchmarking the much vaunted tax cuts against 2017-18, making them appear larger. Cormann said 2017-18 is the appropriate benchmark, and wouldn’t be drawn on giving further detail.
“The costing has been done on the basis that we’ve published it.”
Gallagher declared the budget expressed Scott Morrison’s choice to leave some people without support.
In particular, the decision to leave those on JobSeeker hanging was described by Gallagher as “frankly, just plain mean.”
On Tuesday, the 2020 budget will be brought down. It will show a huge deficit for this financial year and massive government spending, aimed at promoting economic recovery and reducing unemployment. In the wake of COVID, the Coalition’s usual preoccupation with “debt and deficit” has become very yesterday.
On this week’s Politics podcast, we speaks with Chris Richardson, partner at Deloitte Access Economics. Deloitte’s Economics Budget Monitor, released this week, favoured bringing forward the tax cuts as one measure to stimulate the economy and expected the deficit to be holding up better than earlier thought.
Like economists in a recent survey Richardson says the budget should prioritise a permanent boost to JobSeeker and fund more social housing:
“The least noticed thing about this crisis is how geographically specific it is,” he says.
“The job losses in Australia have been far and away the biggest where unemployment rates, suburb by suburb, town by town, out in the bush, were already the highest. … The areas that were struggling are now struggling a lot more. The areas that weren’t struggling haven’t been that hard hit.”
“And one real advantage of boosting unemployment benefits. It’s probably the single most targeted regional spend you can do in Australia at a time when that is needed most.”
And on social housing: “Think of what this virus has done all around the world. It’s found the weakest link in every nation.
"It’s travelled through the political system, the political divide in the US, it’s travelled through the migrant workers, construction workers in Singapore.
"In Australia, it showed up or could have shown up through our very low unemployment benefit… And social housing. You saw those towers locked down, as the virus got away on us in Melbourne. And again, both social housing and unemployment benefits. That’s money that would be spent. It makes it good stimulus.”
On October 17, New Zealanders will head to the polls to vote in a general election and also on referendum questions for the legalisation of cannabis and euthansia.
In a head-to-head between two women, Labour’s Jacinda Ardern appears to be heading to a comfortable win against National Judith Collins, who only recently became her party’s leader.
This week NZ’s three term ex-PM Helen Clark joins the podcast to discuss the World Health Organisation’s investigation into COVID preparedness and response, and the New Zealand political scene.
Clark is a significant global player, a strong voice on the issues of climate change, gender equality, and women’s leadership, through her work with prominent bodies in the United Nations.
Most recently, Clark was appointed co-chair of the Independent Panel for Pandemic Preparedness and Response, which will present a report on how to effectively address health threats as they develop.
In NZ, an election in the wake of a pandemic creates a unique range of issues for voters. Ardern hasn’t committed to opening the New Zealand border, while the National party believes the border must be opened for economic reasons, but under stringent conditions. Clark is doubtful the border should be opened soon, or will be.
“I don’t think the border could be open for Christmas.
"And I’m in the school of thought that says a vaccine as a silver bullet isn’t going to give us sufficient protection any time soon. The most optimistic forecasts … [are for] later next year.
"Others – which might be more realistic – are saying later on 2022. Others are saying for years.”
Will there be a trans Tasman bubble? “At the moment, we don’t see that either.
"If Australia had firm borders at its state level, we could have had bubbles with New Zealand and Australian states. But that’s not the way the Australians have dealt with it. And that, of course, is absolutely their prerogative.”
With the first election debate taking place this week, Clark looks back to the election when she ran against a female leader.
“I recall that 1999 election when I went head-to-head with then prime minister Jenny Shipley. And to use a ghastly phrase, in a way there’s nothing that a lot of observers would like more than to see the two of you descend into some kind of ‘cat fight’
"Watching Jacinda Ardern and Judith Collins last night, I think it’s also fair to say that they kept it well above that level. They are so different in style. They’re a generation apart. Jacinda, 40. Judith, 61. Very different style. But they didn’t descend into pettiness of the kind that you can see in such debates. So I think the women leaders feel a real onus not to get down into the gutter.”
The Coalition is having yet another go at crafting an energy policy. Faced with the huge economic challenges presented by COVID, the government this week announced its "gas-fired recovery".
But the policy is already under fire from both environmentalists and coal advocates, and the energy sector warns it could discourage investors.
Part of the announcement was a threat – the government will build a gas generator in the Hunter Valley if the private sector fails to fill the gap in power supply that will be created by the closure of the Liddell coal-fired power plant.
This dramatic form of intervention would seem very much against the Liberal grain.
But Energy Minister Angus Taylor says: "Our focus is on good competitive markets. That's a Liberal Party philosophy.
"Our belief is in the importance of affordable, reliable energy - we want the private sector to deliver it. That's their obligation to their customers, we believe. But if they don't, we will step in."
Despite the focus on gas, Taylor said renewables would play their role in the future. "I've always been enormously enthusiastic about renewables, but I also see that what we need is a mix.
"And when people talk about a single technology as the answer to all our problems, I am sceptical.
"I'm not sceptical of balance and having a range of different technologies...a balance that includes hydro, solar and wind, gas, coal, batteries starting to play a role, particularly over the very short term, to help support, secure, the market."
In light of Victoria’s cautious roadmap out of lockdown, with some experts claiming the exit is too fast, and others believing it is unnecessarily slow, the modelling underpinning the decisions is under close scrutiny.
University of Melbourne Professor Jodie McVernon is director of epidemiology at the Doherty Institute, and a modelling expert.
She tells the podcast, “I think the broad qualitative conclusions of the model would have been reached by really any kind of model formulation - that the lower numbers can be driven down, the less likely a resurgence would be”.
This week saw a pause in the progress towards a hoped-for Oxford vaccine, when a clinical trial produced an unexplained illness in one participants.
But McVernon remains optimistic. “I think we will get vaccines. I don’t think we’ll get perfect ones, but I’m hoping we’ll get useful ones – because without vaccines, we only have behaviour to prevent this disease. … So I think [a vaccine will] be one of a suite of things that we’ll be using into the future to control the spread of Covid.”
The pandemic has seen ‘experts’, including public health officials and academics, come centre stage as public figures – as policy heroes but, latterly, also targets for some critics who think their voices are carrying too much influence.
“I would have to say I’m a very reluctantly public figure,” McVernon says.
“[I] was convinced by others early on that it is important …in these times of uncertainty that people are reassured by having the evidence explained.
"If we we do have expert knowledge and we can help to clarify things for the public - I think that’s an important responsibility. Part of having knowledge is sharing that knowledge.”
Had the 2019 election panned out differently, Chris Bowen would have been the treasurer coping with Australia's current economic crisis.
Instead, as shadow health minister, he has been critical of aspects of the government's handling of the health issues, especially its failure to act earlier and more comprehensively to secure access to potential vaccines.
With Labor homing in on aged care, which has seen the deaths of hundred of residents, Bowen in this podcast questionsd the performance of the regulator, the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission.
"I was frankly shocked by a number of things.
"I was shocked by the fact the regulator was informed by St Basil's, [that] they had a positive case – and on the face of it, did nothing. I've seen no evidence that they actually did anything about it. Their defence is it was somebody else's job - we had no role to play.
"I just don't think that cuts the mustard for a regulator.
"I was surprised to learn that no-notice or very short notice inspections had [ by the regulator] ceased during the pandemic.
"I think these are problematic decisions which the regulator is accountable for, and I do have deep concerns about [them].
"And as a parliamentarian, I am expressing the view that there have been shortcomings [by the regulator] and I've yet to see an adequate explanation for those."
In February, then Greens’ leader Richard Di Natale stepped down from the leadership after five years and announced he’d leave parliament to spend for more time with his family. On Tuesday, he delivered his valedictory speech to the senate – remotely – and on Wednesday, he formally resigned.
In his speech Di Natale said “We’ve closed off the [parliament] building to the community, but we’re throwing the gates wide open to vested interests with deep pockets.”
Asked if there should be tougher control on lobbying and what could be done to limit the power of “vested interests”, he says: “There’s a few things that need to happen.
"The first thing is political donations. There are cancer on our democracy, and we need to immediately move to a system of public funding of election campaigns with basically the prohibition of all corporate donations.”
“The second thing you have to do is … close that revolving door between lobbyists and MP’s… It’s remarkable that some MPs don’t even leave the parliament before they get on the payroll of some of these interest groups, whether it’s in the defence industry, the gambling industry, the alcohol industry, the mining industry.”
“And finally, we need a national anti-corruption body.”
Many would regard current leader Adam Bandt as more radical than his predecessor. Di Natale sees the difference as more cosmetic.
“I think Adam and I shared a sort of political outlook on most things. We’re obviously different people. We might have different ways of communicating. And that’s to be expected. But the truth is, [in] terms of our policy direction, in terms of all the things we’ve been campaigning on, there’s very little of a difference between us or indeed any of our Greens colleagues.”
With the withdrawal of the international market, and the stresses of delivering education virtually, the university sector has been hit especially hard by COVID-19. The sector, which in the 2018-2019 financial year contributed $37.6 billion in export income to the Australian economy, is a shadow of its former self.
Meanwhile the government last week released its controversial “JobReady Graduates” draft legislation, which aims to promote study in areas it believes will increase the employment prospects of graduates. A new fee structure will steer students towards STEM fields, IT, teaching, nursing and away from the humanities and law.
Professor Barney Glover, former chair of Universities Australia, a peak body for the higher education sector, is Vice Chancellor of Western Sydney University. Among his many roles on advisory committees, he’s on the New South Wales International Education Advisory Board.
While acknowledging the need for innovation and reform in how higher education is delivered, Professor Glover believes it will be a long road back to normality for the university sector, which has had such a high dependence on foreign students.
“This is something that’s going to affect the sector for several years because the recovery – the economic recovery overseas, the capacity for students to study internationally, the amount of international mobility – all of that is going to be curtailed and constrained, which means universities are going to have to deal with a very different financial situation over the course of particularly [20]21, [20]22 and I suspect [20]23.
"And it won’t be, we predict, until 2024 that we see recovery back towards 2019 levels.”
The second wave of the pandemic in Victoria has pushed the post-COVID economic recovery further beyond the horizon. Among the challenges for the federal opposition are dealing itself into the debate and formulating alternative economic policies before the next election.
With speculation the budget may bring forward the next tranche of the legislated tax cuts, Labor is leaving the way open to give its support.
“We’ve said for some time that that’s something that the Government should consider. We’d have an open mind to that if they came to us with a proposal. They don’t yet have a specific proposal. We’ve had some smoke signals about it for some time now…” Jim Chalmers, Shadow Treasurer, tells The Conversation.
“If they came to us and said that they wanted to bring forward stage two of the legislated tax cuts, then we’d engage with them in a pretty constructive way. We’ve said that for some time.”
A high danger is Australia may come out the COVID recession as a more unequal society. Charmers says: “My big fear is that it will accelerate some of those trends that we were already worried about; inequality, but also social immobility.
"We are worried about a lost generation of workers, a discarded generation of people, who become disconnected from work and from society during this recession, who find it very hard to make their way back.
"When people ask what keeps us awake at night, really it’s the idea that this spike in unemployment turns into long-term unemployment, which becomes long-term disadvantage, which cascades through the generations and concentrates in areas like the one that I represent. That’s our big fear.”
At the moment, Chalmers is working in Brisbane, assisting with the campaigning for the October Queensland election, which he believes will be “extraordinarily tight”
“There’ll be different sub-elections around the place. Townsville will be a challenge for us. There’s some opportunities for us on the Gold Coast. It’ll be a real mixed bag. The big thing that we need to avoid is one of those minority governments. In this recession and into the recovery, we want to have a stable government like the one that Annastacia Palaszczuk is providing.”
The Royal Commission into Aged-Care Quality and Safety delivered it’s interim report in October 2019. Titled ‘Neglect’, it provided a scathing insight into the aged care industry - finding it centred around transactions not care. It minimised the voices of people receiving care, lacked transparency, and was staffed by an under-appreciated and under-pressure workforce.
The outbreak of coronavirus, and the second-wave of infections in Melbourne, has raised fresh questions. The virus has infected residents and staff en masse, leaving aged-care residents major victims of the pandemic.
Read more: View from The Hill: There's no case for keeping secret any aged care facility's COVID details
NSW Senator Concetta Fierravanti-Wells was the shadow minister for ageing for four years, during Tony Abbott’s time as opposition leader. She has made a detailed submission to the Royal Commission, critical of the government’s attempts to reform the troubled sector.
The Royal Commission is holding hearings next week to take evidence on the affects of the COVID virus. Among the questions Fierranvanti-Wells would like asked of the industry are
“How could you have avoided the situation that you were facing?
"What is it about the system that has led to you being in this difficult situation?
"What was in place to assist you in the event of a pandemic?
"Where have you found that the intersection between health and ageing has fallen over?
"Where could you have performed a better response if you’d had better medical services available in your aged care facility?
"And what workforce was required to have been available to you in your aged care facility to meet the potential of a pandemic?”
Concetta Fierravanti-Wells submission to the commission can be read here.
Those in aged care have been some of the hardest hit by the coronavirus second wave in Victoria. Even before the crisis, there were calls for reform of the sector, which is currently being examined by a royal commission.
Issues with staffing and delivery of care have only become worse as many workers are required to isolate, with mass transmission occurring in the homes.
Patricia Sparrow is CEO of Aged & Community Services Australia, a peak body which represents not-for-profit members providing residential care for some 450,000 people throughout the country.
One of the many issues with the aged care sector, Sparrow says, is a failure to define the role and purpose of aged care.
"They used to be called nursing homes and that's what people thought they were. But in recent times ... there's been a move to them being more home-like and less emphasis on [the] clinical. So I think one of the critical things we need to do is actually to determine what is it that aged care is providing."
"We need to decide then as a community how we fund it so that it can deliver the quality of care that the community expects and that we as providers want to provide."
The royal commission produced a scathing interim report, and Sparrow is hopeful its final findings will bring about the real reform the industry needs.
"We do need a system that's wellness-based. We need a system that supports people at home, that provides the very best in terms of health-care needs. And that does require us to look at the interface with the health system.
"There's no doubt that we need a fundamental reform and there's no doubt that providers are doing the very best they can now, with the resourcing and the restraints around what it is that we can do."
Geoff Kitney fell into a career in journalism, and rose from reporting the local footy in Western Australia to covering many of federal politics's biggest stories and serving as a foreign correspondent based in Berlin and London.
Arriving at parliament house in 1975, Kitney reported on the dramatic Dismissal. Later, the relative decorum of the Canberra press gallery contrasted with the danger and adventure of war reporting.
During the Kosovo war, he was sent to Belgrade, travelling there in a bus with a crowd of Serbians.
"It was very, very strange bus trip because we'd passed houses with MiG fighters parked in the driveways ... [Slobodan Milošević] was trying to stop NATO destroying his airforce. So he put the MiG fighters next to people's houses so that they wouldn't hit them, which meant that he couldn't use them, but at least he still had them."
In Kitney's new book, Beyond the Newsroom, based around his decades of reporting and analysis, he also has some sharp observations about what's happened to the media.
"Advertising started shifting to social media. Newspaper budgets got tighter and tighter. Staff started being cut. We've now had years of redundancies."
"We had specialist reporters covering all sorts of issues, digging down, getting out into the bureaucracy ... finding what's really going on. Now ...there aren't enough people to do that."
"And the pressure, for Twitter for example, is to be noticed. And it seems to me that people think the best way to get noticed, and probably this is true, is to have strong opinions that people react to. And so opinion becomes more important than actual information."
In this fourth episode of the Conversation-Democracy 2025 Podcast on “Political Trust in Times of Covid-19”, Michelle Grattan and Mark Evans explore the lessons that can be drawn from the management of Covid-19 for the recovery process with the ABC’s Norman Swan and Mark Kenny from the Australian Studies Institute at the Australian National University.
The discussion draws on the very latest findings from a comparative survey conducted by Democracy 2025 and Trustgov in May and June in Australia, Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States on political trust and democracy in times of Coronavirus.
The survey investigates whether public attitudes towards democratic institutions and practices have changed during the pandemic. We also asked questions on compliance and resilience issues and whether the way we do democracy in Australia might change post Covid-19.
We observe that Australia can be considered a global leader in its response to the pandemic and assess whether the highest levels of public trust in federal government seen for a decade can hold in the recovery period.
You can find the first of three reports on the findings at Democracy 2025.
Jane Halton, who formerly headed the federal health and finance departments, is chair of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness.
CEPI, founded by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, is at the forefront of the international search for a COVID-19 vaccine.
She is also a member of the Morrison government's National COVID-19 Coordination Commission, which liaises with business and advises government on how to mitigate the economic and social impacts of the pandemic.
Currently she's undertaking a nationwide review of the hotel quarantine system.
Halton, who when in the public service took part in a government pandemic rehearsal, says Australia was relatively ready. But she says that inevitably, when there's a review in the wake of COVID-19, there'll be a lot to learn from this experience. "Just like we've learnt from H1N1...just like we've learned from SARS.
"But in the short term, the systems stood up capacity really quickly, which is great."
On the reality of vaccine being developed, while it might not be soon, Halton is relatively optimistic.
"Look, there are lots of experts who are both optimistic and pessimistic."
"The experts that I work with, they are probably what I would describe as moderately optimistic. Now, they sort of have to be because they're working on this and they are spending huge hours every day, every week in this race. And so they have to think that there's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. But there's a pretty significant number of scientists who do think it's possible."
Former Liberal Minister Christopher Pyne attracted critics for his political front. But he always had plenty of friends and networks, enabling him often to be a player, if not always a "fixer".
After his election to the South Australian seat of Sturt at age 25, he went on to hold senior portfolios, notably education and defence, and to stride the parliamentary stage as Leader of the House of Representatives.
In his memoir, The Insider, the former politician provides his take, humorous and candid, on a tumultuous 26 parliamentary years.
In this podcast, Pyne talks about life after politics, and stories from the 'Canberra bubble'.
"I don't miss politics at all - because I left happy, and I wanted to go.
"So I'm not one of these politicians that was dragged kicking and screaming. I left when people wanted me to stay, which is a great rarity."
Pyne is ultra candid about his ambition to be prime minister:
"I think when you're 15, and you decided you want to be a member of the House of Representatives, you kind of think 'I'm going to dream big.' So of course I dreamt to be prime minister".
Reality, it appears, didn't hit for quite a while.
"I think that week when Malcolm [Turnbull] was deposed and nobody was suggesting that I should be running for leader, it dawned on me that the generation that was being elected, which was Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg, were a generation different to me."
With three months before JobSeeker is due to end and calls for billions of dollars in extra spending, there is a growing debate about how Australia’s post-coronavirus economy will actually look.
While Scott Morrison has said Australia will need to lift economic growth by “more than one percentage point above trend” through to 2025, a 22-economist panel hosted by The Conversation forecast a bleaker result.
Growth one percentage point above trend would average almost 4% per year.
The Conversation’s economic panel forecast an annual growth averaging 2.4% over the next four years, much less than the long-term trend.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan discusses the economic pathway ahead with two economists featured on the panel: Professor of Economics at the UNSW Business School Richard Holden, and Professor of Economics and Public Policy at the Australian National University Warwick McKibbin.
McKibbin argues for a major change to the national cabinet. “I think it would be very useful if the leader of the opposition was on that cabinet, and perhaps even a couple of the key ministerial portfolios from the opposition side, so that you truly have… both sides of the political spectrum represented.”
Making the body more inclusive, McKibbin says, would assist a bipartisan approach. “If you are going to go for the big bipartisan approach, which I think is fundamental to most of the problems we face, you have to do something like the national cabinet,” he said.
“It worked very effectively during the worst parts of the virus, it is breaking down now it appears, because Australians seem to think things are okay now. But I think you’ll see it re-emerge very shortly.”
Richard Holden warns an increase in taxation should not be contemplated to pay for some of the large spend the COVID crisis is requiring.
“I don’t think there will be an increase in taxation under this government, and I definitely don’t think there should be under any government,” he says.
“The coalition has made the debt and deficits mantra part of their political brand, and I understand that from a political perspective. And there’s nothing wrong with aspiring to balancing the budget over the economic cycle.”
“But when you’re in one of the largest economic crises in a hundred years, it is not the time to be penny-pinching and focusing on economic management credentials as measured by the budget bottom line in the short term.”
On July 4, the voters of Eden-Monaro will give their judgment on the performances of Scott Morrison and Anthony Albanese.
The seat is held by Labor on a margin of just under 1%. Labor is campaigning hard on JobKeeper ending in late September, while the Liberals are hoping the government’s handling of the coronavirus crisis will outweigh Scott Morrison’s poor conduct during the bushfires.
In this podcast, Michelle Grattan discusses the byelection campaign with the main candidates, Labor’s Kristy McBain and Liberal Fiona Kotvojs.
McBain: “I think everybody’s sick of old politics … this idea that you govern for only the people that vote for you. When you’re elected, you’re elected to represent everybody, whether they agree with you or not. You should be hearing them out, and I want to make sure that people in Eden-Monaro have a strong fair voice in Canberra for them.”
Kotvojs: “There [are] two key issues: one is about recovering after fires and after COVID, and the other is in terms of rebuilding our economy. So in terms of the first one, what we need to do is to look at getting more consistency and an integrated approach between the three levels of government… In terms of the rebuilding the economy, that’s all about jobs.”
After its calls for an inquiry into the origins of the coronavirus, Australia has found itself targeted by China with sharp rhetoric and trade retaliation.
In this podcast, we talk with two prominent China experts about China's ambitions and the Australia-China relationship.
Clive Hamilton, from Charles Sturt University, has just coauthored, with Marieke Ohlberg, Hidden Hand. The book probes the Chinese Communist Party's ever-expanding presence on the international stage."From Beijing's perspective, they see themselves not in a new Cold War, but still in the old Cold War," Hamilton says.
Richard McGregor, who reported from China for many years, last year published Xi Jinping: The Backlash. McGregor argues for a rather different "tone" in Australia's dealing with China. "We always seem to want to bring on a fight with China, and that ignores the economic equities we have in the relationship. We don't want to give them any excuse to unfairly punish us."
Conversation-Democracy 2025 Podcast on “Political Trust in Times of COVID-19” produced by ContentGroup
A week ago, the British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab announced that the number of people killed by the coronavirus in the United Kingdom stood at 32,313, the second highest death toll in the world.
Health experts believe that the real figure is likely to be closer to 50,000.
The number of deaths from COVID-19 in Australia currently stand at 103.
Critics have accused a “complacent” British government of “massively underestimating” the gravity of the coronavirus crisis.
The prominent Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported that the situation in the UK was “like a nightmare from which you cannot awake, but in which you landed because of your own fault or stupidity”. London correspondent Christoph Meyer writes, Britain has emerged as Europe’s “problem child” of the COVID-19 crisis.
Although international comparisons of COVID-19 death tolls, are methodologically problematic and morally bankrupt, there can be no doubt that the lived citizen experience of COVID-19 has been dramatically different in the United Kingdom when compared with Australia.
Every citizen has a heart-breaking personal story to tell.
In contrast, most Australians, have been blessed voyeurs on the pandemic further perpetuating its image as the Lucky Country.
In this podcast Mark Evans and Michelle Grattan explore differences in the management, experience and impact of the crisis in the company of three leading British academic thinkers and members of the Trustgov project at the University of Southampton.
Will Jennings is Professor of Political Science and Public Policy at the University of Southampton. He is an expert on public policy and political behaviour, Principle Investigator on the Trustgov project, Co-Director of the UK Policy Agendas Project, and elections analyst for Sky News.
Dr. Jennifer Gaskell joined the TrustGov project as a Research Fellow in July 2019. She holds an interdisciplinary PhD in Web Science from the University of Southampton. Her research focuses on the ways new Information and Communication Technologies (ICTs) impact civic and political participation. She is also the co-founder of Build Up, a social enterprise working at the intersection of new technologies, civic engagement and peace-building.
Gerry Stoker is Professor of Governance at the University of Southampton and Centenary Professor at the University of Canberra. He is an expert on democratic politics and governance, and advisor to governments and international organisations on public sector reform.
Pat Turner, for decades a strong Aboriginal voice, is the lead convenor of the Coalition of Peaks, which brings together about 50 indigenous community peak organisations. In this role she is part of the negotiations for a new agreement on Closing the Gap targets.
Unlike the original Rudd government targets, the refreshed Closing the Gap agreement, soon to be finalised, will set out targets for progress on justice and housing.
But the issue is, how much progress should be the aim?
“We want to push the percentages of achievement much higher, but we are in a consensus decision-making process with governments … what the targets will reflect is what the governments themselves are prepared to commit to,” Turner says.
The Australian Black Lives Matter marches have focused attention on the very high rates of incarceration of Aboriginal people, often for trivial matters. In this podcast Turner canvasses both causes and solutions, advocating major changes to the justice system.
She points to “huge issues with drug and alcohol abuse”, with inadequate resourcing to deal with these problems.
She urges reform for sentencing arrangements for those charged with minor offences, criticising a system which imprisons people who cannot pay fines, or post bail. “It would be less expensive overall for the jurisdictions, and it would more beneficial to the community [if those people weren’t in prison]”. And she identifies the “the over-incarceration of women [as] a major concern.”
Among the changes needed, she says, is better training of police.
“Now I’m not saying that all the police behave badly - we have got outstanding examples of how the police work with our communities.” But “we just can’t wait for ad hoc ‘good guys’ to come out of the system and engage properly - we need wholesale reform of the police departments.”
Perhaps at no point in Australia’s history has the demand for real-time figures been stronger than during the coronavirus crisis.
The Australian Bureau of Statistics has stepped up its efforts to get data fast, to help inform the government’s COVID-19 decision-making.
David Gruen, the Australian Statistician and ABS head, in this podcast tells how the bureau has used small, quick surveys to mine timely data from businesses and households.
Some of the more interesting findings concern household stresses felt during the crisis.
Some 28% of women reported feeling lonely, compared to 16% of men. “Overall, only about a fifth of people said they were lonely, but that was the most common of the stressors,” Gruen says.
ABS survey results also showed 75% of parents kept their children home from school. “Women were almost three times as likely to have stayed at home to take care of their children on their own, than men.”
“About 15% of parents said that a lack of access to a stable internet connection was impeding their children’s ability to undertake schooling from home,” Gruen says.
In the wake of the roll out of the single touch payroll system last year, the ABS has also had instant access to almost all business and tax data. “[Single Touch Payroll] is a huge addition to the statistical arsenal,” Gruen says.
In the next census of the Australian population, to be held in August 2021, there will be two new fields of questions - on chronic health conditions and veterans.
But the census will no longer ask Australians whether they use the internet.
“There’s huge public value in having an accurate census, because you collect an enormous amount of information which is of value both to government decision makers, and to decision makers in the community,” Gruen says.
“The things that you learn from the census form the basis for an awful lot of decision-making in subsequent years.”
As Australia slowly emerges from isolation, the nation’s economy is reopening, and even looking rather better than expected. But Australia still faces grim months ahead as unemployment numbers grow and the true extent of business survival rates emerge.
Treasurer Josh Frydenberg described the economic data as sobering when he recently gave an update to parliament. In this podcast, Frydenberg says there would be greater reason for optimism, especially for the tourism sector, if states were more willing open their borders.
“Now we need to see those state borders opened, whether it’s in Queensland or Western Australia, South Australia or Tasmania,” he says.
The Northern Territory will begin easing its border restrictions from June 15, scrapping mandatory quarantine for interstate arrivals. But both the Queensland and Western Australian governments say they will likely keep the measures in place for several months. Tasmania’s premier too is standing firm on his decision to keep the state’s borders closed.
Frydenberg says the government has reacted to COVID-19 “in an unprecedented way in terms of the scale and the size of our response” but reiterates that “the measures are temporary and targeted. And we want people to get back to work as soon as possible”.
However he acknowledges the housing construction and tourism sectors are in need of particular support.
On housing, “we recognise that there may be contracts in place to July or August, which is going to see the pipeline continue to then, but then we’re going to see probably a steady fall after that. And that’s the gap that we need to try to fill with particular measures.”
“It’s a watching brief, but certainly both areas are a focus for the government.”
Frydenberg also indicates that after the June review of the JobKeeper payment, some people could get less money than they are receiving now.
“There are a few issues we need to look at, including some workers within the JobKeeper programme getting paid more than they normally would otherwise get.”
Labor will campaign on the flaws in the JobKeeper program in the Eden-Monaro byelection, shadow treasurer Jim Chalmers says.
“There will be so many people from Eden-Monaro who would have heard the Prime Minister say that there would be wage subsidies only to find out that they’ve either been deliberately or accidentally excluded from those wage subsidies, who can’t understand why someone who might have been on $100 a week before is now getting $750 while they’re excluded from it.”
Chalmers says he intends to campaign in the byelection - for which a date has yet to be set - and has spoken with Labor leader Anthony Albanese about doing so.
As the political debate turns to the strategy for the economic exit from the pandemic, Labor is seeking to define its differences with the government.
“We don’t want to see all of this support withdrawn from the economy in one hit, on one day, based on a faulty assumption about ‘snap back’, when the reality is that the recovery is going to be patchy, Chalmers says.
"It’s going to be longer than ideal, and different types of workers in different types of industries will feel the impacts differently. I think the Government’s policy needs to recognise that.”
The aftermath of the crisis will be the defining debate at the next election,“ Chalmers says.
"I think the next election will be about unemployment in particular. It will be about what the future economy looks like and whether we can create that inclusive, sustainable growth that creates well-paid jobs for more people and more opportunities. I think that’s where the next election will be won or lost for the government and for the opposition.”
“This is not the sort of crisis where we get to September, people forget about it, and the world moves on”
Chalmers, who worked in then-treasurer Wayne Swan’s office during the global financial crisis, contrasts the support Labor has given the Morrison government with the stand of the Coalition opposition then.
“We actually haven’t held anything up in the parliament because the priority is to get this support out the door and into the pockets of workers and businesses as soon as possible.”
“We are deliberately being more constructive than our opponents were a decade ago because we saw firsthand the costs of that kind of oppositionist approach.”
In the latest Democratic Fundamentals, Renée Leon, former Secretary of the Commonwealth Department of Human Services, and Peter Shergold, former Secretary of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, discuss the challenges and opportunities for the APS as the world eases restrictions with hosts Mark Evans and Michelle Grattan.
Democratic Fundamentals is produced in partnership with Democracy 2025, The Conversation and contentgroup.
Speaking as an expert in epidemiology, Deputy Chief Medical Officer Paul Kelly is candid about the prospects of a second-wave of coronavirus in a society that hasn't developed herd immunity.
"There is a very large risk of a second wave. We need to do this very carefully," he says, as Australia starts to roll back restrictions.
"We are potentially victims of our own success here because we have been so successful in minimising the first wave of infections, the vast majority of Australians have not actually been exposed to this virus in a way that could develop immunity in people or herd immunity in the population".
"There is that sense that people want to just get back to doing what what they did before. But it's going to be a new normal. We have to decide as a society, what does a COVID-safe society look like? And there will be changes..."
"This is a big change in the way we're going to live. I think we've seen that in human history. The changes that pandemics have brought, back to [how] the 1918 flu changed the world. The HIV/AIDS pandemic has changed the world. And this one will change the world."
Kelly, in his role as an adviser to the government, praises Australia's response to the virus as one of the most effective in the world - comparable to the successes of Taiwan and New Zealand. But he also acknowledges the marked difference in policy between the Tasman neighbours.
"New Zealand very early on decided that they could and wanted to eliminate the virus altogether as a public health issue. And so they've gone very hard with their social isolation policies and so forth...they really are on a path to not having any virus in the country at all."
"On our side of the Tasman, we went for a suppression approach, which meant that we didn't go quite as hard with the lockdown measures that have been introduced, on the basis that the economic and social impacts of that were not proportionate to the threat of the virus."
If, as both governments would like, a trans-Tasman "bubble" is established for travel, Kelly agrees that, in terms of risk, it would be the New Zealanders who'd have to be more careful about inviting Australians in rather than the other way around.
"But I think it's definitely achievable. "
Describing himself as a glass half-full person, Kelly says: "So with my glass half full, I will hope that sometime in 2021 we'll be talking about vaccines. And then our challenge will be getting enough of them available to the people that need them, not only in Australia but throughout the world and particularly in the poorer nations of the world, so that we can have an equitable distribution of something that could change a lot of people's lives."
Nev Power, former head of "Twiggy" Forrest's Fortescue Metals Group, is now the Chairman of the government's National COVID-19 Coordination Commission.
The commission, set up by Scott Morrison in March, is working on mitigating the effects of the virus on jobs and businesses, and exploring opportunities to help get the country moving again in the post-virus future.
This week the national cabinet was briefed on its preparations for the COVID-safe workplaces.
It is also looking towards the big ideas.
With many calling for reform, Power advocates "tax benefits to companies that invest here in Australia".
"If there are opportunities to incentivise companies to do that, and to accelerate that process, I think that would be very positive.
"This would be some form of investment allowance, or investment tax concessions that reward companies for investing directly in Australia rather than across-the-board tax reductions for those companies."
Power sees a longer-term role for the national cabinet: "I think the national cabinet has been very successful and the results speak for themselves... I believe that there's a great opportunity to keep it in place to help us accelerate the economy and to put through all of the changes that we need to make sure the economy comes back as quickly as possible."
Labor's Katy Gallagher is chair of the Senate committee that will assess the government's handling of the coronavirus crisis, both its economic and health challenges. It is set for the deep dive, having a final reporting date of mid-2022.
With parliament currently sitting only in fits and starts, Gallagher considers the committee a "key accountability vehicle".
"We don't want political grandstanding, we don't want long winded political arguments, there are other forums for those," she says.
"We do expect public servants and ministers to attend with information and provide information. I don't want it to be turned into one of those committees that we see so often where we ask questions and the officials at the table work out how not to answer them"
The committee's role will be "to explore why decisions were taken and provide that conduit back to the public."
In this episode of Politics with Michelle Grattan, former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull gives his frank assessment of Scott Morrison as a former colleague and as prime minister, warns about the right of the Liberal party, and tongue lashes News Corp.
As Treasurer, Morrison at times infuriated then PM Turnbull by leaking to the media and “frontrunning” positions before decision were made.
“Morrison and I worked together very productively” but “he had an approach to frontrunning policy which created real problems for us,” Turnbull says.
As for now, Morrison’s “obviously got massive, completely unanticipated challenges to face … I think he’s doing well with them by the way. … I think the response of Australian governments generally [on coronavirus] has been a very effective one”.
Turnbull’s anger against both the Liberal right wing and News Corp continue to burn undiminished.
The right, “amplified and supported by their friends in the media, basically operate like terrorists”.
News Corp “I think was well described as ‘a political organisation that employs a lot of journalists’”; The Australian “defends its friends, it attacks its enemies, it attacks its friends’ enemies, and the tabloids do the same.”