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          Happy New Year, Loyal Listeners! We kick off 2025 with a film about a new year’s party that goes awry for all involved, simply because nobody can keep their eyes out of their damn phones. Social Media is the enemy here. So, it’s a documentary, you say? Pretty close…

Thank you for all your support in 2024. We’re looking forward to the coming year and wishing you and yours loads of laughs, scares and surprises in 2025.

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          So it’s come to this. Based on the unprecedented performance of this unprecedented Christmas horror movie, there’s no way we COULDN’T cover it this holiday season. And you know what? We actually enjoyed it more than we thought we would.

At the very least, even if extreme gore ain’t your thing, it’s a Christmas movie through and through. And that’s how you know that Art The Clown has finally come into his own: He has his own holiday special!

Cheers, and Happy Holidays to you and yours this season. See you next year!

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptTerrifier 3 (2024)Episode 421, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I am Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Merry Christmas, Craig .

Craig: Hey, Merry Christmas.

Todd: Christmas time. Finally is here, then the new year, and then we go into 2025 and see what that’s going to turn out to be like. Yep. It’ll be something. It’s been a mixed feelings this year, just sort of like our episodes, I would say, this Christmas season.

We did try to strike a bit of a balance between things we knew were going to be fun and funny, and things that we knew we may not like or would be a little more dark and gruesome. Today’s, uh, movie, we had really no choice, I think, but to do Terrifier 3, because it turns out that it’s, I think, I mean, last I read, it was the highest grossing, unrated film of all time.

Craig: Yeah, something like that, crazy.

Todd: Yeah, like, I think the only other unrated film that came close to it was like a Beyoncé concert movie or something that was released to theaters.

Craig: Yeah. And I think it had a limited run too, like, I don’t think it, I don’t know.

Todd: Well, it kinda had to, right? Yeah, because usually theaters don’t play unrated films.

Oh yeah, right. Especially unrated films like this. And I know that the first two installments had that issue. The first installment was, I believe, crowdfunded. And I’m not even sure that it got much of a theatrical release.

Craig: It actually wasn’t crowdfunded. He tried to crowdfund it, but he couldn’t make the money.

Todd: Oh.

Craig: So, a producer came in and said, I’ll fund it fully, but I want my name on it as a producer. And so, he did. And that you know, got it out there. And then for the sequel, that one, he did crowdfund. They made tons of money. Like they, they got way more than they had targeted for. I think

Todd: they asked for a small amount.

It was like 35, 000 or something like that.

Craig: I think the second time it was 50, I don’t know. I could be pulling these numbers. I I’ve watched a lot of like videos. About it today, so.

Todd: I see.

Craig: I hope, I don’t know if this is right, I think it was like 30 the first time around when they couldn’t raise that much and then I think he only raised it to like 50 for the next one, but they far exceeded that.

And then, because they exceeded it, they were able to do a lot more.

Todd: Right, and then, and that ended up getting released in theaters, right? But, there was at least one studio that had been interested in it but ended up turning it down because they, uh,

Craig: He didn’t even want to go through a studio because he knew that they would force him to change things.

And he’s right. I’m sure he’s absolutely right. I don’t know what studio But I also think that this is really interesting because I feel like this really opens a lot of doors. It goes to show that you can, it is possible, if you can find your niche and you can find your audience, you can, like, self fund or crowdfund or whatever.

Put out movies that are going to make a lot of money and this movie has made a lot of money and in doing that You free yourself up so much, you know The studios and the producers have so much oversight that often what we end up getting was Is only a mere sliver of what was initially intended I don’t remember if it was the producer or who it was The only thing that they asked of the director damian leon was to keep it under two hours and he got really close He got really close, but I also read that Hit the the script that he turned in the runtime was 205 and that’s what the runtime of this movie is So it sounds to me like they shot his script as he presented it and that’s awesome

Todd: Yeah, I don’t know.

I read that he had to throw away a bunch of pages while he was shooting the last segment of it Because he knew it was going to be too long I don’t know, you know, this movie comes in with a lot more of a budget, a lot more resources than his first two movies. I remember that the second movie and the first movie were shot on a shoestring.

He seems like a guy, I don’t, I don’t know, you probably know better than I do, but he seems like a guy who got into movies because he was very interested in practical effects. And uh, Then the first two, well, All Hallows Eve was a bit of a showcase for him in doing his effects. We did All Hallows Eve and we found it pretty bad, but we did enjoy the Art the Clown segment just for how quirky and bold it was.

And then I guess a lot of other people did too. The first two Terrifier films were shot with a crew of like five or six people at any given time. He was doing all the effects himself. He directed it. He edited it. Then this movie comes along and Affects teams who were impressed with the first one came in and said we want to work with you And so I think this is the first movie that he’s done where he didn’t work on the effects if he did some work on The effects it was minor There were multiple effects teams as you scroll through the credits because all the effects in this movie are pretty much gore effects and makeup Effects.

I mean, yeah, there’s not much else There’s no magic happening. There’s, you know, there’s nothing else. Just people getting caught up in creative ways. So, which is on par with the first two movies. The first one, what all took place in a warehouse. I watched it with my dad and I warned my dad about it. We did that on this podcast as well.

And I think, uh, at the time I’d said, you know, I mean, I can see why people like it, but it really is a one trick pony. You know, it’s just a bunch of people locked up in a warehouse, there’s almost no story to it. It’s just Art the Clown pops in, and you know they’re gonna get it, and it just remains to be seen how gruesome it’s gonna be.

And then the second movie I never saw, and I believe that was a Halloween movie, right? And that came out, what, last year. That took like six years to make. Because, you know, he was scrapping together resources. And then this one here, he had to get it done in under a year. And so that’s why he had so many teams working on it.

And that was a different kind of pressure, he said.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: So we figured we had to do it this Christmas. We had no choice. So here we are. Merry Christmas, everyone. Terrifier 3. Craig, I wonder, had you seen the second movie as well? Yep. And you, you still haven’t? No, I, I meant to watch it, but I didn’t, I didn’t get the time.

Well, then I can only

Craig: imagine.

Todd: My confusion? That you,

Craig: yeah, and that you may not have been, you know, all that invested in these people because I didn’t, I don’t know. I mean, I figured it would be a continuation, but I kind of didn’t realize that at this point he seems to be doing something that I appreciate because I agree with you that I was getting a little tired of, how bloody can it be?

Like, okay, I get it. Great. Great. Good job topping yourself each time. That’s great. But now I feel like he’s trying to build a mythology and I can get on board with that. I like a mythology. Right, right. Some story at

Todd: least.

Craig: I like a continuing mythology, you know, like I’ve stuck with Chucky for decades and this movie, I feel like.

Seems very much intended to continue that core mythology. And I read that he started doing that in part two, which he did because he regretted the response to the first movie was good. He got a lot of positive feedback about it, about art specifically. People loved art. They thought he was a great villain, wanted to see more of him, but they felt like.

The other characters in the movie were thin and undeveloped and you didn’t really care about them. So, Leone or Leone wanted in the second one to have more round, more fully developed characters. Characters that you’re invested in and that you care about. And, this girl, Lauren Lavera, who plays Sienna. She is The final girl of part two she’s introduced in part two and is the final girl in part two and she Continues that role.

So she’s really the the female lead in both of these movies I don’t know how you felt about her coming in post trauma, but I got really invested in this girl in the first movie. She’s vulnerable, but she’s tough. I like that they’ve cast her. The actress is petite and so potentially very vulnerable, but also really strong.

And ultimately they make her special. But what I’m trying to get at is I think that this actress is really good. And so I’m into her and I’m rooting for her. So that does it for me. If it weren’t for that, I think I would still be, eh, kind of meh about it, but I think I may end up defending this movie more than you would expect.

Todd: Yeah, I’m, you know, and I think it’s probably a good thing I didn’t watch it because we come in with a completely different mindsets and that helps our listeners, I believe. I would tell you right now, if you’re interested in seeing this movie and haven’t seen the second one, you really ought to see the second one.

Clip: Yeah, you should.

Todd: Because I was very confused at the beginning of this, and I felt like the movie did a decent enough job of piecing some stuff together for me, but they didn’t make it very clear. The way it starts out with these different characters, and there’s this kind of monstrous woman, and there’s a flashback to what I thought was the first movie, but now I’m not sure.

You know, I just, I had to eventually go, okay, there’s this, there’s some backstory here, I don’t know, I’m just gonna roll with it, and ultimately I was fine. But it did affect my ability to, like you said, care a bit about these new characters, because I didn’t, it was only about three quarters of the way through the movie that made it very clear to me, oh, okay, this girl was the final girl from the first one.

I mean, I had my suspicions, but I also thought maybe there were some other characters too who survived, and you know, I wasn’t quite sure who they were and how they were related, and some of the things they were talking about, you know, I just couldn’t make a lot of sense of. I just had to chalk that up to, okay, this is just backstory that’s either going to get filled in for me or I really needed to watch the second movie for.

So, if you really want to see this movie, you really ought to see the second one first, I would say 100%. Because, ultimately then, for me, not being so invested in this family, what this movie felt like was, literally, because I looked at the time stamp, an hour and a half. Of Art the clown randomly killing random people just like he does in the first movie while There’s another story of sorts playing out parallel to it.

You know in these movies, there’s always like someone you’re following and they’re gonna be They’re not gonna be attacked until the end or they’re gonna be menaced until the end when there’s a showdown And so I knew what was happening. I was just like this family’s not even being menaced So, for about half of this hour and a half run time, I’m switching back to this family and hearing about their trauma, but I’m not really getting much else out of it.

It’s just, like, their interactions with each other, she’s clearly traumatized, okay, that’s fine, but, like, other than that, I’m just like, alright, well, when is Art gonna show up on this side? They’re not even being menaced yet, so, they’re just waiting here in the wings for me, and I, I felt like the movie could have been a lot shorter, you know?

Yeah. Had there not been So much of that, that ultimately, you know, didn’t matter to me. Now, maybe you found it more interesting because you were more invested in the character from the second one. I don’t know.

Craig: Well, I guess because things developed from the first one a little bit. But you’re right. I mean, it’s an effects driven movie.

It’s a art the clown character driven movie, like, it’s just giving him a playground, you know, a Christmas playground to play in and chop people up. In fact, you know, we don’t immediately return to these characters, and so I didn’t know, I didn’t know, I don’t even remember if I had watched a trailer for this movie.

I didn’t know if those characters were going to be featured heavily, if they were going to get killed off in the first scene, if we were going to see them at all. And when the movie opened, the opening scene, I thought was A great opening scene for a classic Christmas slasher. Yes. To be fair, far more gory and graphic than many that we’ve seen, but not all.

And it was great! You know, it’s a beautiful outdoor shot of this beautifully decorated home decorated for Christmas, and the Christmas music is playing, and the colored lights are glowing, and it’s perfect, you know? It’s this perfect Christmas place, and this perfect little family lives there, and you hear, like, the footsteps on the roof, and little Sally, or whatever her name is, goes into her parents house, and it’s like, there’s somebody on the roof!

It’s Santa Claus! And they’re like, no, go back to bed, blah blah. Like, it’s Exactly, you know,

Todd: it’s perfect, frankly. Yeah, it’s like homage, really. We’ve seen so many start out like this.

Craig: Yeah, right, and he said that he was inspired by those Tales from the Crypt segments. There was the original one and then the remake.

I think we’ve talked about both of them. Oh, all through the house. Uh, all through the house. And this is very much like that, too, because eventually the mom and dad go back to bed, the brother is in his room asleep, and the little girl still hears stuff, and so she goes down there, and there’s Santa Claus, but it’s Art the Clown, and she runs and hides before he sees him, he pulls out an axe and goes and chops up her whole family in a really, really gruesome, display Now I will say that I think these effects look great What I like the most about them is they don’t make me sick Because they ring of the effects of the 80s.

Yes. It’s almost that it’s so extreme As to be beyond the realm of reality and so it just doesn’t bother me like i’m like that’s fake There’s so much blood just blood Covering every surface. It’s bright red when you see the and you do all the time It’s all the time people getting chopped up getting their faces ripped off chopped off limbs chopped off Every gory nasty disgusting thing you can think of in Captured in great detail on camera, but the effects look practical.

I don’t know Maybe that is what skin would look like if you were chopping into it But it looks like a practical effect to me and I like that I’ve always liked practical effects and so I can get on board for that, too

Todd: Mm-hmm . Yeah, I, I would say that extreme violence didn’t disturb me as much as I thought I would normally when it comes to this kind of violence, it’s more the idea of it, you know, it’s what’s happening to the person and what that would be like if that had happened to you more than just, you know, what you’re seeing visually on the screen.

So, you know, you’re right. You watch a movie like Misery for example, and you see your hobble, poor James Conn in the bed, right. You’re gonna get a, uh, perhaps, I mean I anyway, are gonna get a much more emotional reaction than when I see Art go in with a chainsaw, you know, to rip apart, you know, two people in the shower.

Something about that, I just can’t imagine that happening to me. It’s a little too detached from my reality, and it’s not presented, like you said, in a realistic way. Yeah. I mean, it is. I, you know, like you said, I suppose there’s only so many ways you can thrust a chainsaw into somebody, but, you know, I, I, it’s just, uh, there’s somehow there’s a detachment there.

So, I can understand why this movie would have more of a broad audience than I, uh, Originally expected the series to have because more people I think can take it because it is so in a way Fantastical like you said, although I have to admit I was impressed with the effects of the first movie when leone was doing it That scene where he saw straight down through a person that was pretty horrific and that turned my stomach a bit And I thought that was as realistic as I imagine it could be this one I also thought the effects were good and I thought they were a couple notches better Probably because you had more experienced teams working on it.

I did appreciate that aspect of it as well. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah, and you know a two million dollar budget is significantly larger than 50, 000 or whatever for the second one, but the other thing that removes those kills Many the many many many of them it removes them from reality is because He and his little sidekick who we’ll talk about in a second are destroying these people’s bodies and yet they remain awake and alert.

Like that is absolutely impossible.

Clip: So

Craig: in my head, I’m like, this is fiction. Like it’s, I am removed from this. I don’t have to be scared of it. I don’t have to be even grossed out by it. It’s not real. It’s, it’s all good.

Todd: Now, can you answer a quick question for me before we go on? Yeah. The girl who survived, I suppose, the Christmas Massacre in the very beginning scene?

Because Art is about to leave the house, and then he hears a noise in the cupboard, and he opens it up, and the girl is cowering in there, and he waves at her. Are we to believe that he killed her, or am I off and she is now an adult somewhere, or an older person somewhere in time?

Craig: I think that they are intentionally leaving that open so that they could potentially use her later.

Because you, you, you see in this movie that they need hosts, right? It’s a whole thing, like in the first movie, and I just ended, I just finished watching like a history of thing in all of the shorts, including the All Hallows Eve or whatever. There was a supernatural element to art. He decided in the first Terrifier movie that he wanted to abandon that and make art just a real guy.

Just a guy. A killer. A serial killer. But then, when he resurrects In the second one, it’s just his body or, or he’s been reanimated by some, some outside supernatural force. And now he’s supernatural. In the second movie, there’s a little girl character, a little evil girl like him, and it’s unclear what their relationship is, except for you do see a newspaper article that says a little girl was murdered at some point.

And it looks like that girl. Her name is Emily, and in the first movie, the crazy lady who had the doll in the warehouse said, This is my baby, it’s, her name is Emily. Speculation at this point is that whatever is possessing this little girl is the thing that brought art to life. And at this point, at the end, you saw the aftermath of this, but at the end of the first, er, of the second movie, he and Sienna have a huge fight.

I, I, I read too that the finale was toned down for this one, for time purposes, and I don’t, I’m not surprised because the finale was super long in the second one, and I’m glad that they had to shorten it for this one because it was so, And I just got really sick of seeing that young woman brutalized for my entertainment.

Like, it just went on, it just went on for too long for me. It was too much. And it was impossible, there was no, you know, it was just impossible that she could move. Now, to be fair, the other part of the backstory that you missed is she somehow is a chosen one. Her dad was a cartoonist. He started apparently having visions of art and other things and was drawing them.

And he drew this hero that he designed for her that you saw in this movie. And that’s what she dresses for his Halloween. And that’s what she fights art. With and with that sword, but it goes on forever. She ends up decapitating him And that’s when we go back to the monstrous woman that you were talking about who is the final girl from the first movie I believe oh Oh I pretty sure she is the she’s either the final girl from the first movie or the reporter that interviewed her I’m a little iffy on that one, but she’s definitely from the first movie And she, at the end of the second one, I guess at this point we’re supposed to understand that she killed herself and recently died.

So now she’s now possessed too. And possessed her birthed Art’s head. What? Oh! Gave birth to it. It came out of her. That’s why it was like, It had like a umbilical cord like attached to its neck.

Todd: Was that like an ending in the second movie? Yes. Is that where we’re supposed to? Yes. Okay. That was the,

Craig: that was the shocking ending of the second movie.

Todd: Yeah, that would have been hilarious if I had seen that first.

Craig: After that opening scene, it cuts back to five years. Later five years earlier

Todd: earlier. Yeah The the

Craig: time jumping confused. Well as it turns out these events take place. I don’t even know I’m

Todd: confused now. I think what happens is no because it jumps to five years earlier So the christmas scene we’re just talking about is present day.

Craig: Yes, that’s right

Todd: It jumps to five years earlier to catch us up on that’s right What you just described basically and then how that turned out

Craig: they had to explain how he came back Yeah

Todd: And it seems like, and correct me if I’m wrong, the way he came back, okay, so his head was birthed, the cops came into the room and discovered, you know, after the massacre, discovered his headless corpse, then they came in and discovered this girl and Art’s head is chewing on another body, and then, um, the The head and the body Reunite somehow.

Yeah, yeah. First he grabs The body reunite Reanimates without the head. And it kills the policeman. And then Art decapitates the policeman. And then he sticks the policeman’s head on his body. And they’re on the subway. And then Somehow he gets his own head back. I thought

Craig: he was just gonna like Jeepers Creepers it.

Yeah, I think that he rides the subway to wherever his head is and he goes in there. You’re right as that as right as Chris Jericho is about to get killed he shows up It’s crazy, and he gets his head back and so now he and Victoria, that’s the monstrous woman, and she is. She’s disgusting to look at.

Because she got her face ripped off at some point.

Clip: Oh,

Craig: gosh. So now they’re a team. There’s a funny part where they like ride the bus and they’re always covered in like gore and viscera and stuff. And another guy dressed, because this is the same night. Like, as the end of the second movie, at this point.

It’s the same night, so it’s still Halloween, so another guy dressed as Art gets on, and is like,

Clip: Yo, yo! You guys, you, you look so good. I mean, way better than mine. I was gonna do the blood thing too, but I, I was just worried about the cleanup. But, can I, can I get a picture? I’m gonna post this. You guys, seriously, you killed it.

This

Craig: And then it cuts away and it cuts to the next scene and they’re walking back into his lair, which apparently nobody ever disturbs. And he’s wearing the clean costumes. Obviously he had taken it from that guy, which is funny. He does that. He steals costumes. It’s his Zemo. So, okay, so you’re right.

We’ve got two parallel stories, and what it seems to be is that Art is trying to make his way to Sienna. They are connected. Sienna’s brother figured all this out somehow in the last movie. He was a much bigger part of the last movie. I suspect that either he was unavailable or was uninterested in reprising his role because He is not.

Like, he only films, I think, one scene with her. The other scenes, he’s off at college doing his own thing. He’s really not doing much. He’s not in the movie a whole lot. He’s a big part of the first one. He’s kind of replaced in this one by Sienna’s niece. They go, okay, so once he gets his head back, they go back to the lair, and they just like, hibernate.

Yeah, that

Clip: was

Todd: interesting. She goes and sits in a bathtub, full of disgust, and cuts her arm. I thought she was trying to kill herself or something? I think she’s already dead. She saw herself in the mirror and was like, I look so

Craig: ugly. Oh, maybe she’s not. I don’t know. Maybe she’s not dead at that point.

Maybe she dies then and that’s when she gets possessed. I don’t know. But anyway, whatever.

Todd: Yeah, she just and she sits in a bathtub and Art sits in a rocking chair that reminded me of Psycho You know the mother sitting in the rocking chair up in the high window of the of the tall house But yeah I also read that you know It was meant to be an homage to Amityville because the shape of the window and also an homage to Black Christmas

Craig: It immediately made me think of Black Christmas.

That’s

Todd: the first thing that I thought it makes sense This being a Christmas movie too, right? And him being, at first, looks dead because he’s covered in cobwebs. When we switch to present day, and there’s, um, I don’t know, a couple Cleaning crew or something? Demolition guys. Demolition guys coming into the house and they go up into the attic and they see this What appears to be a corpse, you know facing the window and she is in now her bathtub is filled with muck I don’t think it was before so I don’t know if she just bled out an all awful lot or what the deal was Just time.

It’s gross It’s pretty disgusting and they walk over and, and Art is eyes open, just staring straight ahead in this obviously like hibernated state. And as soon as the cops discover, or the cops, these two guys discover these two, they come to life and they murder them and. Now they’re back. And here we are in present day.

Craig: Brutally. And I feel like, I feel like people would want to know how they do it about these kills. But that’s, that, that would be my, that would be my complaint about the movie is that I just didn’t find it particularly interesting. It was just an opportunity to show off. Really the same kind of effects.

You know, it’s not really creative. Like, he chops him up with an axe. He smashes their head with a hammer. He cuts him up with a chainsaw, and it just looks like blades cutting into flesh, and bones breaking off, and legs getting chopped off, and heads getting smashed, and it looks good. But it’s kind of all the same.

It is. And it ceases to be, it ceases to be shocking. Like,

Todd: yeah,

Craig: I’ve seen this.

Todd: A, it ceases to be shocking because it’s not creative. You know, those old slasher movies, part of the fun was just seeing how, how, what were the odd different ways people were going to die? This movie doesn’t really have that.

And then number two, it really doesn’t have a lot of suspense either. And that’s kind of his shtick, I guess, you know, aren’t the clown shows up and you know, that whoever he shows up in front of is going to be doomed. And, he just plays with them for a little bit. They’re more confused than anything, or they just think he’s a guy in a costume, goofing, and then he kills them.

And that’s really it. I mean, there’s very, there’s no stalking really involved, and it’s not shot in a way where Typical slasher is with the stalking and the suspense and the POVs coming around the corner of the teenagers hanging out You know, there’s just none of that. It’s just very much in your face like oh here comes art the clown He’s coming into a bathroom and we know there are two people showering there and we see art doing all of his Preparation before he finally goes in and kills them.

And so I didn’t get the same What do you want to say? Emotional investment, even with the kills, and the process leading up to it that I would get in a typical slasher movie.

Craig: I was still entertained because I do really like art as a character, and David Howard Thornton is a really, really talented performer.

Um, He didn’t originate the role, but

Todd: Well, that’s what I mean when I think I say that’s like his shtick, you know? It feels like that’s the movie. That’s what people are gonna have, are gonna come to see. Yeah. You know, they’re not coming to see a suspenseful slasher. They’re coming to see their favorite Art the Clown guy and how goofy he’s gonna be.

Craig: Right. You know, so Right, I mean, we did that too. That’s what, we did that with Freddy for years.

Todd: We did, but the But, but let’s be fair, the Freddy movies had a strong degree of suspense and creativity that this one just doesn’t have. Sometimes. Well, you’re right. I mean, look, I mean, they’re all kind of the same, but like, Freddy lives in the dream world, and the, there are very elaborate kind of situations, and sometimes they would escape, or they’d wake up, or things like that, like you never quite knew if he was going to get them at that moment, but you’re right.

We mostly saw it for him and his quippiness and especially towards later movies and we liked him as a character

Craig: But also those movies we did go to specifically for the creative kills because you could do anything in a dream Yeah, and they did and that was and this is different. I mean I do I honestly think that that’s what he’s working towards I think that he’s working towards a larger mythos, but he only started establishing it in the second movie and It’s so piecemeal at this point that I’m not really sure what’s going on like I get that Sienna is like a chosen one But who chose her like and I get that Like her dad kind of knew and it seemed like he kind of her dad’s played by Jason Patrick, by the way Who I never would have recognized.

Todd: Yeah for sure

Craig: and it’s a small role He’s only in a couple of flashbacks, but it seems like He was somehow connected to it in some way or he knew something but he didn’t tell her and like why not and what are the rules at this point it feels futile like she’s killed him once what like every every time we’ve seen him die he has been immediately immediately reanimated

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: The only reason that any time has passed here is because he decided to take a nap. Like, what are the rules? And why, why is he taking a nap? Why wouldn’t, it’s the same. He’s back. He’s beat the shit out of her. She is weak. Just go get her again.

Todd: Yeah. I didn’t get that either. I

Craig: don’t understand that.

Todd: Maybe he needed time to, for his head to fuse back, you know?

I don’t know.

Craig: Like fully or something. Well, and there’s this, maybe, I guess? Oh, or? A healing time, I guess? I don’t know.

Todd: Craig, maybe it’s like a whole, uh, Jeepers Creepers thing where he, every five years, you know, he, you know, He comes back or something.

Craig: Well, that would be new. I don’t know.

Todd: Speculating here.

Craig: You know, Jonathan wrote that letter. She reads that letter. He said all of these things in the second movie. They just had to get him said again. That like, as long as she’s alive, they’re vulnerable and they know that. And so they’ll always be coming after us. Okay.

Todd: By the way, I was really mad at that letter scene, because, for me, and having not seen the second movie, I’m like, this letter’s important, and it is way too long for me to read while in the short amount of time it was up on screen, so I literally paused it, and I was glad I did, because if, you know, if I had not read at least half of that letter, I would have still been in the dark about this whole demon thing, because nobody else really cared.

explains it in the movie. It’s literally this letter and apparently the second movie.

Craig: Well, and I don’t even remember if it was a letter then it may have been, he said all those things to her. He, he figured them out somehow. Again, I don’t really understand how.

Todd: Well, make the letter a little shorter or at least have somebody come up to him and say, you remember what we, what I told you before, right?

You know, this or read it out loud or something like. Throw me a bone here, you know, so I don’t have

Craig: to She says the last line aloud, but that’s not enough context if you don’t know. So, okay, so, I feel like what the movie is trying to do is, it’s paths that are going to converge is just going to take a while, and it does take forever.

Like, I think that he’s making, he’s making his way to her, but he really doesn’t get to her until the very end. Meanwhile, she is just freaking out. She’s been in the mental institution this whole time. Her uncle came and picked her up. I think the uncle is married to the sister of her mom, who was killed in the last movie.

And they have a daughter, Gabby, who apparently Sienna’s really close with. Gabby, I feel like, really kind of becomes the surrogate for Jonathan. She’s the Jonathan of this movie.

Todd: Gotcha.

Craig: So, we’re following their story, and she is like, having hallucinations of her friends that were killed in the last movie, which by the way, it totally was not her fault at all.

Clip: Mm.

Craig: Art was coming after her, they just happened to be in the way. She’s having those hallucinations, and she starts Thinking that she’s seeing art, but she is because then he’s around but like he’s not even like there’s one part Where they’re in the mall and he’s right next to her and he stands and stares at her for a while And then he just walks away and goes to do something else like he doesn’t seem to be in any particular hurry I don’t understand.

Yeah, what is happening?

Todd: You know, this was the thing that kind of annoyed me, is that she’s freaking out, but her freaking out is because she’s having dreams, mostly, and flashbacks to the old one. It just goes on for far too long. Like, I would have expected him to at least be You know, in another movie, what happens here is that The final girl’s friends are getting murdered or at least the people around them at the university or at the high school are getting murdered I’m not saying that this movie has to follow, you know any particular convention I’m, just like that’s what kind of keeps that interesting is that the final girl feels this impending doom Because they see this real evidence around them that Something’s happening.

It’s probably this murderer that I just dispatched coming back for me. I’m freaking out and I need to protect myself but In this it’s just you know, this stuff is sort of happening parallel that she doesn’t even know about I don’t think it’s until this mall scene that she hears about the mall murders and just But she hears

Craig: about it later the murders happen right after that encounter right after she sees him Yeah, they happen right after that, but she doesn’t she learns about it on the news later So even more stuff happens between that You Exactly.

Todd: And it’s, it’s an explosion, ultimately, at the mall. Artist dressed as Santa.

Craig: Yeah, I was gonna say, what I think we should do before time gets away from us is just, I don’t even think sequence matters. But I feel like we should talk about some of these, the setup for some of these kill scenes. Cause the setups are great!

But that’s the thing, like, I don’t know, I don’t want to be too critical because, I ultimately, I did enjoy the movie more than I expected to, but it almost feels, it feels episodic and then they’re like, let’s set up this great scene.

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: And then after that, let’s set up this great scene. Like they don’t, but they don’t tie into a, feel particularly close.

Right. A story.

Todd: Right. Yeah, they don’t tie into a coherent narrative, unless it’s just, you know, you consider it a road movie. These two are just slowly making their way to her, even though, as you said, they could be at her house at any time. Like, it’s not like she’s halfway across the country or anything.

And like you said, he’s literally next to her at one point and just walks away. So it’s not that. It’s just a whole bunch of, Hey, this would be a great scene and a great kill. This would be a great scene, a great kill. Let’s have them do all of these things while Sienna’s freaking out and worrying. But again, she, she only has reason to worry later in the movie when it becomes clear to her that art is back or he might be back because I’m just going to say this explosion, An explosion can happen somewhere.

I’m not sure why you would piece together. Oh my god. That was art and he’s after me Even that incident that causes her to suddenly feel like it’s real doesn’t feel Real

Craig: she thought she saw him But then she was doubting herself because she’s seeing other things too then when she heard that she thought oh, oh It was him.

Oh. I can follow that. I can follow that train of logic. Perhaps. Perhaps.

Todd: Okay.

Craig: That scene, I liked that scene. I thought, and, and, you know, we, we glossed over the opening scene. It’s very violent, and not only does he brutally chop up the parents, but he chops up the kid too. Nobody is safe in these movies.

Nobody. This scene, it made me very anxious because we’ll talk maybe next about how he got the Santa suit. But he’s got a Santa suit and he comes into a mall and he sees a mall Santa, but he takes advantage when the mall Santa goes on break, he sneaks up to the stage and coaxes the children towards him.

And I was like, Oh my God, is this, is he just going to like massacre these children? In broad daylight in front of their parents in the mall. I was thinking that

Todd: too.

Craig: And so I was, because he’s digging in his sack. He’s always digging in his sack and he’s always pulling out something horrible to like, murder you with.

Todd: Yeah, the sack is, is basically um, his toolbox, you know, of, of random. It’s

Craig: Mary Poppins bag, frankly. He could pull a bulldozer out of there. Right. But instead, now, he starts pulling out toys and he’s just giving the kids toys and they’re all happy and I kept waiting. I’m like. Are they gonna be full of razor blades?

Yeah, I did too. Are they gonna come

Todd: to life? Is this like, you know, What was it, Silent Night, Deadly Night 4? Or 5? The Toymaker?

Craig: Yeah, something, something. And I just was surprised that nothing was happening. Everything seemed to be fine. And then they, they grab him and throw him out and he’s resisting slightly, but, you know, He’s going and then it starts cutting back to this boy who’s unwrapping this box and I’m like, Oh, this is the thing.

This is the thing and I, my, my immediate thought was Oh shit, it’s a bomb. Yeah And it was the kid the kid is unwrapping. He goes. I wonder what I got Oh and this big surprisingly some of the some of the kids had seen Scattered, so hopefully it didn’t

Todd: get too many of them. Yeah, surprisingly kind of, um, light on the gore and blood in this one because there’s a big explosion but it’s just fire, you know, and even lingers on the scene for quite a while and it’s just the stuff burning up.

It was a very low budget, typical low budget explosion where people are supposedly dying but you never see body parts flying or, or anybody burning or anything like that and I was actually kind of disappointed. In that respect, because it was very unclear how many people were actually I just had to assume.

I guess the idea is that he blew everybody up. I don’t know.

Craig: The news report said, but I don’t remember how many it said, This is just, you know, again, like I said, I do like, I really like the setups for these scenes, and they are fun scenes. I think that David Howard Thornton is great. I just think he does a really good job.

You know, he has mime experience and one of the documentaries that I watched, the director and everybody who’s had anything to say about him said, he’s just magical. Like he’s just a real life Roger Rabbit. He can just do anything. You know, they, they’re showing him behind the scenes and they’d say, you would never believe that this guy was Art the Clown because he’s so affable and funny and nice and kind.

He just gets the darkness of it. And he said, once he gets a character, it’s. Locked in and he can just turn it off and on and that’s what he does And I think I think he just gives a really good performance. I mean the franchise I think rests on Him.

Clip: Yeah,

Craig: like you said before people are coming to see this character.

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: so that’s a lot of responsibility And I think he’s really gifted

Todd: It is very much like Freddy Krueger and, and Robert Englund, you know, I mean, you couldn’t imagine. Although he didn’t play Arthur Clown in the very first one, but, you know, it was a, it was a short. But it had the same spirit. I

Craig: think that he only took over in the first full length.

feature. Yes. I’m pretty sure that. Correct. The guy who played him before was just a friend of the director. He wasn’t an actor, but he enjoyed doing it when it was just for short periods of time. But I think it was a mutual parting that the director wanted somebody with more experience because his friend was not an actor at all.

And the friend didn’t enjoy the idea of being in that heavy makeup for extended periods of time. So I think they parted on friendly terms. But this, and, and this guy, David Howard Thornton was the sixth person to audition. He improvised. That’s what got him the part. He improvised a kill where he killed somebody and then started carving their flesh and he tasted it and made a yucky face and then started seasoning it with salt and pepper and then eating it again.

And that’s what, that’s what got him the job. But yeah, I mean, these scenes, another scene, this scene actually comes before them all. I’m not even going to remember all the kills because there are so many, but

Clip: The

Craig: scene in the bar was funny. And it was a great Christmas bar scene. Yes, it was. I really liked

Todd: this bit.

Craig: It’s Christmas Eve at the dive bar and it’s just kind of the last scene. Sad stragglers and the corner Santas and stuff and and that’s exactly what you got here It’s just these three guys, you know, one of them Santa one of them’s Clint Howard and one of them’s the

Todd: bartender Yeah, well and the Santa is Daniel Roebuck I mean super familiar face has been in like hundreds of movies and I was surprised to see him in this I thought it was cool.

Craig: I didn’t recognize him. Is he a horror guy? Is he just

Todd: He’s in every like he was in The Fugitive and Final Desti Well, he was um, he was the agent, one of the agents in Final Destination and he’s like in He’s in so much stuff, man. IMDB, I’m looking at it right now, 263 credits.

Craig: Wow. I think that people would not hesitate to do a cameo in these movies.

These movies are wildly successful. They’re wildly successful and they have A devout cult following the people who like these movies love these movies and can’t get enough of them So heck yeah, if I had an opportunity to cameo in one of these movies you bet your ass I

Todd: guess he was in I haven’t seen it, but he was in three from hell I’m just looking right now and I noticed that so Walking dead, mostly not horror, but heck he was in, he was in the remake of Halloween too.

Craig: He’s the Santa and he’s a nice guy. Like Art comes in and starts acting like he’s super, super excited to see Santa. The other guys maybe kind of start to rib him or something. They’re like, no, no, no guys. Uh, he wants to see Santa. He gets the, everybody gets the same show or something like that. And so he humors him.

Clip: And

Craig: I also didn’t know where this was going to go because it seemed like Art was almost genuinely like. Having kind of innocent fun. Yeah, ultimately, I don’t know if he was maybe he was having some fun But as soon as they’ve had enough of him Like he’s sitting on Santa’s lap at the bar and as soon as Santa’s like seriously, buddy That’s enough get off then he starts pissing on him

Todd: You know, and this is another cute thing, which I think a little adds a little bit to this character They get him a drink and he drinks the drink, but he doesn’t like the drink.

It’s like he’s never had alcohol before Or maybe he’s just miming it. I don’t know. But anyway, he spits the drink out of the guy’s face and then pisses all over him. That seems to turn the tables. Unless Art was always planning on killing them. It’s hard to know.

Craig: Probably. He kills everybody. Yeah, but Except maybe that little girl.

I don’t know. He shoots one guy. He starts using guns in part two, which I don’t really like. Slashers who use guns seems too easy. It’s lazy, but he shoots one guy and then kills Clint Howard somehow I don’t really remember how and then he ties Santa up and steals his suit and Tortures him with nitrous oxide, which okay.

That’s that’s something different.

Todd: I appreciated that That was a little thing. He put together in his workshop before he was testing it on rats, right? That was so funny Fine.

Craig: Silly, but funny. And yeah, that’s a fun gag to, you know, freeze a guy and, you know, start shattering his frozen skin and stuff. And Santa had, you know, Art had grabbed his beard and pulled it.

Clip: Hey Santa, looks like you got a fan. What’s with the outfit, pal? Yeah, did the circus come to town? Oh! Oh! Hey, buddy, watch it. That’s the real deal. That’s my, that’s my beard. If Santa doesn’t have a real beard, he’s not a real Santa

Craig: Claus. And I knew as soon as he said that, that was a mistake. And exactly what I thought would happen, happened.

Art rips his beard off and takes it with him.

Todd: Puts it on.

Craig: And that was a fun scene too. It was a fun scene! It was a fun scene. And then there’s the shower scene. I mean, what is there to say?

Todd: Yeah, to, to Who were these people, by the way? Were they friends? These were, these

Craig: were randos. This was Jonathan, the brother’s college roommate and his girlfriend, who is also a douchey podcaster.

That’s right. Who wants to get them on her podcast.

Todd: I like that. Now we’re starting to see a lot of douchey podcasters in, uh, in movies. This is the second one this month. Yeah. I’m starting to get triggered, man.

Craig: Yeah, I think they’re onto us.

Todd: Well, they go into late at night and I don’t even remember where. Is it a school? I guess it’s supposed to be the shower room at the school and some locker.

Craig: It’s like a, it’s like a frat party. I thought there was going to be more to this frat party because they made a big deal out of it. But the only thing that happens that I remember is she promises to f k him if He’ll try to get his roommate or the roommate’s sister on the podcast.

Todd: Yeah, that’s right.

Craig: So then they go down to the shower and They

Todd: do it. In the shower, alone, and Art sneaks up on them, pulls out of his bag, like you said, very improbably, a chainsaw, starts it right outside. She’s like, what’s that? And then just breaks through the door and chainsaws the both of them. Um, he kind of manages to slip out on a broken leg and is crawling across the floor.

And after he basically just hacks her to pieces inside the shower, as he’s crawling away, Art takes the chainsaw right up the middle starting at his groin. And that was, uh, that was pretty gross. But, again, not the first time he’s seen somebody just cut someone up from the groin to the head. I don’t know.

Is there a term for that?

Craig: I don’t

Todd: know. I don’t know. Anyway.

Craig: And so now we are finally, finally, the only other important thing that we need to know is that in talking to her brother, Sienna thinks that Art is back and so she needs to go back to the city. scene of the finale of the last movie to find that knife.

We don’t see her do that, but we see her come home with a box gift wrapped and her hands are filthy. So we are, we know that she dug it up and she’s wrapped it in a box and hid it in the back of the Christmas tree. There’s at some point there’s the shining, but I don’t remember when that happens.

Todd: Oh, well it’s, it’s at the house, right?

I think this is the finale bit where they’re in the house, Art shows up. I don’t remember exactly how he manifests himself.

Craig: She just wakes up. Okay. So, so Sienna’s. Aunt drugged her and gave her sedatives not before Sienna talked to her brother and said you better come here and he said okay I’ll

Clip: come

Craig: the uncle went off to get him.

He called him on the phone. He’s like, I’m I’m outside Where are you and the kid’s like, where are you? And he’s like, well, I’m right outside your dorm now We learned in the last movie that they can Mimic people’s voices, and they did this on the phone. It was mostly the little girl, who’s not in this movie, by the way.

It was mostly her that was doing it in the last movie, but they can do that. And so, I knew this was the setup. I didn’t know if you would or not. But so, Sienna wakes up in her bed, and goes downstairs, and Art and Victoria are just there! And Art is crucifying, apparently Art carried that body from the frat house to her house to crucify it up on the wall.

I don’t even know what the other crazy is doing.

Todd: She’s got a crown of thorns on. Remember she put on a crown of thorns, he put a crown of thorns on her at some point. This is maybe one of the few. Christmas horror movies that we’ve seen so far that, that dare to have Jesus imagery in it as well as Santa

Craig: imagery.

Oh my god, there was also a weird weird scene where she, Sienna was dreaming and she saw like the Virgin Mary overseeing a demon forging this Sword? Yeah. That was so weird.

Todd: That was so bizarre. I thought, this is gonna come into play later. You know, maybe a later movie, right? This, this looks like something from the past or whatever?

I don’t know.

Craig: It’s nothing we’ve seen before.

Todd: Wasn’t it forging the sword she was gonna use to Yes. Yes.

Craig: So, again, it is suggesting a much larger mythology that surely they’re going to explore later. But, he gets the better of her somehow, he knocks her out or something with a mallet, and when she wakes up again, she and her aunt are both tied up in chairs.

This finale really does go pretty quickly. You think so? What? I thought so. I thought it was pretty long. Victoria is taunting Sienna and ultimately she says something I wrote it down, but I’m not gonna look for it. She says something like I’m who?

Todd: Jess Right? The ant, right. They’re both sitting there.

That’s her ants. Yeah, her ants. They’re both sitting there tied up. And she starts kind of tormenting the ant first, right?

Craig: Basically what she tells Sienna is I’m going to take everything that you love. Or I’m going to destroy everything that you love. So they do. She and Art do. Oh my god. God, I, I was saying, I was saying it wasn’t creative and I lied.

I forgot about some of these kills. This one was gross. This one I read that the actor, art, the actor, this one made him physically ill. You want to tell about it?

Todd: I mean, well they show her a cage. They show the aunt a cage. Which has a, basically a skinless head in it that’s being eaten by rats and tell her that it’s Gabby’s.

So she freaks out and then they grab her and basically he has a big acrylic tube that he pulls out of his bag, hammers it down her throat, and then they pull the rats out of that cage and they force them down her throat and then as the rats are about, I don’t know, down into her throat and who knows where, he slits her throat and the rats come out the throat and She’s obviously very dead.

I, it’s just like really, really creative, I suppose. Wasn’t, isn’t that to take it off of some kind of, um, ancient torture that the Greeks used to do or something like that? I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I’ve heard of this one before, but

Craig: maybe. I have no idea. It’s, yeah, yeah, kinda, but I’m not sure either. At some point, Gabi shows up, and I’m not sure why they don’t kill Gabi right away.

That seems weird. If they’re really trying to destroy everything that she loves, I don’t get it. Cause she obviously loves Gabi the most. But, Victoria tries to possess Sienna, and it, like, it seems like it’s starting to work. Like, both of their eyes are glowing red, but Sienna’s still too strong. Yeah. So, Victoria says I’m gonna take everything you love, and

Clip: then I’m gonna invade that pretty pink flesh of yours and destroy you from the inside out, just like I did this bitch.

But first, I have a confession to make. That’s not Gabby. Okay,

Craig: well I’ll kill Gabby and then You’ll be totally empty and you’ll lose all will to fight me and she goes and acts like she’s going to and Art’s there with her And Gabby says I’m sorry. I didn’t get to give you my christmas present And for what reason Victoria’s like, Would you like to have your present?

And Sienna’s like, Yeah. And she’s like, Would you like to open it yourself? I’m like, Why is she doing this?

Todd: I know this is so weird. So then instead of freeing her by cutting her bonds, Art comes over with a hammer, smashes both of her hands into bloody messes, then cuts her bonds. And I’m like, Well, she can’t open her present now.

But this woman perceiv Her hands would be USELESS. Her hands looked useless when she held them up. They were exactly like you would expect them to look. But then, the movie completely ignores that for the rest of the movie. And I’ll tell ya, that really bothered me. I was like, come on, how lazy is this? Why would you even do that?

Cause then, she opens the gift, and it’s the sword. And that makes all the difference. That was a big miscalculation on Victoria’s part. But anyway, I know she’s got the sword and now she’s can hold this heavy sword and swing it around and leap around the room

Craig: and her hands are fine. I’m not being sarcastic when I say.

I think she’s a superhero. Like, I really do. You’re right. I think that she I do. I think that in the movie, she is some sort of super She’s like Buffy or something.

Todd: It makes it clear, because at some point I don’t think she even knows

Craig: that. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah, because at some point, the ground opens up. So she It looks like she’s got the best of them.

Well, she kills the

Craig: woman.

Todd: Right.

Craig: She, she decapitates the woman and the, the light goes out in her eyes, in the woman’s eyes. So it seems like she’s dead.

Todd: And then Art has disappeared out the window, right? Like she turns around and he’s gone.

Craig: They, well, no, there’s a big moment. She’s fighting him and she gets the best of him, too.

But that’s when the floor opens up. That’s when the floor opens up. We’ve seen these hellmouths before. There was a hellmouth in the finale of the last one too, but I don’t recall it just like opening up out of nowhere. I don’t really understand why that happened. I guess it was like fog started coming out of Victoria’s body and it like ate away at the floor or something.

But just as Victoria is about to best art, she’s got him pinned to the wall with the sword in him. All she has to do is finish it, just push it all the way in. But in that very moment, the girl dies. And Art looks at her, and the conversation, you know, the subtext between them is, You have to make a choice.

You can kill me, or you can save her.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: So she makes the choice to save her.

Todd: Yeah, she doesn’t die, she falls into the hell pit, but she’s like, hanging on by a thread. Right. So she grabs the sword, and she, because it’s the only thing she can find, And she holds the blade end With her hands and asks her to grab the handle and so the she grabs the handle but The sword slips out of her hands and it cuts her hands and the girl

Craig: it’s a knife blade Yeah, of course knife blade.

Come on, you dummy.

Todd: Don’t do

Craig: that. And so the girl falls in anyway And the hole closes up and then She turns around and art is gone, you know He’s he the window’s open and he’s gone

Todd: and she looks at her hands And we see that her wounds on her hands mystically heal right in front of us So you’re right we can explain away the smashed hands.

Craig: She has to be there’s no other explanation Yeah, there’s no other explanation because there’s no way that she could survive The beatings that she’s been given in these last two movies. It’s impossible. To be fair, her brother in the last one gets pretty beat up too, but I don’t know. He’s her brother, maybe he’s special.

At some point, they said that that head was not really Gabby, which we know because we’ve seen her alive, but they insinuate that it was the brother. Now, we don’t see the brother die on screen, and I know horror movies. They are leaving that door open on purpose. Yeah.

Todd: They can bring

Craig: him back if they want to.

They

Todd: got a lot of doors open in this movie. You

Craig: Yeah, they do it because she says, I’ll find you. I promise. Like, okay, great. I guess I got to see part four now. We see art just sitting at a snowy bus stop and like the Christmas music is playing again And he just gets on the bus and the woman on the bus is reading a book called the ninth circle Which was the title of the original short that art was in and the bus drives away And that’s just

Todd: the end, right?

Uh, yeah, it is. I think probably the next one, part four, is gonna be Art Goes to Hell, or something like that, right? It’s gotta be. I have

Craig: no idea. I don’t know where they’re planning on taking it.

Todd: I mean, or she’s gotta go to hell to find her.

Craig: Well, it seems like they are invested in this through line. With Sienna.

It seems like she has emerged as the Laurie Strode of this franchise.

Todd: Right, and like you said, she’s like a literal superhero. Like, she’s got a costume ready and everything, like her dad drew it. And you’re right, she wore it, I guess, in the second movie, right? So.

Craig: Yeah, she made it and wore it.

Todd: Maybe this will be a, become a superhero franchise.

Ha ha ha! Aren’t the clown is the, is the Joker?

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. You know, I, all of the things that I can tell that you are Are not fond of I understand and I really agree with you on on those fronts Well,

Todd: don’t get me wrong. I I still enjoyed the movie. I enjoyed it way more than I enjoyed the first one I’ll tell you that because at least there was a story of sorts Even though I couldn’t necessarily pick it apart or understand it or I got a little impatient with it I appreciated the fact it wasn’t just a guy in a warehouse murdering a bunch of people Although like I said, you know in a real sense, that’s what the first hour and a half kind of is Yeah, at least it’s far more interesting You know, and there’s a story building.

It’s obvious they’re trying to do something with it. And I appreciated that. I heard that Damien Leone is only interested in doing like one more and that’s it. But I can’t see why somebody else wouldn’t pick it up if the next one is just as successful as this one. You know, I mean, if you’re David Howard Thornton, you’re sitting here happy as a clam.

I’m sure.

Craig: Yeah. He’s icon status at this point. I mean he could make a living just doing cons, right? But I I would really be interested to see what you thought of the second one because frankly I think that the second one is a better movie than this one

Clip: Oh,

Craig: and that makes sense to me because they had a long time They could really take care with it.

Not that I don’t think that they took care with this I do they had a lot more help on this and that makes a difference too, but I think the story is better but I like this one because It is through and through a Christmas movie. It is. It is saturated in Christmas imagery. Art

Todd: is basically a killer Santa for half of it.

Craig: It is. I mean, it’s in the vein of Silent Night, Deadly Night, whatever. But honestly, like I want to see. The Christmas episode, you know, I like Christmas episodes of TV shows. I wish more film franchises like this would do a Christmas episode, do a Halloween episode, do a Christmas episode. You know, people have been shouting out for a Jason in the wintertime movie for a decade.

You know, people want to see these familiar faces in different Circumstances. Yeah, dress art up as Santa for one of the movies. I love it. And I’m not as fervent a fan as some people are. Our friend Caroline is a huge fan of these movies and I, I’m sure that she, if she hasn’t seen it already, I’m sure that she’s waiting with bated breath to see it.

So for those fans, I get it and I’m happy that That you have something like this, and, and I’m with you, I’m just a little bit out on the fringe, I’m not as fervent about it. I’m happy that you have something like this, because these were, especially for me growing up, Freddy and Jason and, and Mike Myers, I, I so looked forward.

To every new installment, even if it was bad, I looked forward to it. Yeah, it definitely has that flavor. I’m glad, I’m glad that people have that. And it was fun. I’m glad we did it for our ultimate Christmas episode. It put me in the spirit. It really did.

Todd: It was a special. Solid christmas horror movie with plenty of homages to classic christmas horror movies.

We had our killer santa We had a lot of christmas stuff. It had that nice heartwarming holiday message of you know, family is important And uh, yeah, it was great it was a great thing to do for christmas It was a great way to wrap up this year. We are going to be coming at you again with another New Year’s episode next week.

So stay tuned for that. Thank you so much for joining us on this journey this year. We are really grateful at this time of year for all of you out there, whether you’re our patrons or whether you are just a long time listener or a fresh new listener. One of the best Christmas presents you can give us is just to introduce this podcast to a friend, wrap it all up in a box with a pretty wrapping paper and a nice bow and hand it to a horror fan that you love.

We love to welcome new people into the Two Guys in a Chainsaw family. Until next time, I’m Todd,

Craig: and I’m Craig. Merry Christmas.

Todd: Happy Holidays. Merry Christmas indeed, from all of us here at Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          Imagine this: The TV’s on your favorite yule log stream and suddenly, you hear talking and see some legs move across the screen. That’s the concept behind this surprising oddity from Adult Swim, which manages to sneak a horror movie into a typical yule log video.

Videos of a fire blazing were never so entertaining. We just cannot tell you ANYTHING about this movie before you watch it, or it’ll spoil all the fun. All you need to know is: You MUST watch this. And then come back here and we’ll chat about this Christmas treat.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptAdult Swim Yule Log (2022)Episode 420, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Week three of Christmas, and Craig, I think we had something else in mind, and it must have been after that Await Further Instructions movie that you, I think we’re looking for something to bring us back to the lightness of, there’s something in the barn?

I was too, and then you just kind of out of the blue sent me this thing. Hey, this Adult Swim Yule Log, that looks like fun. I barely glanced at it, but it looked like it was, it said it was a comedy horror. So I was like, yeah, I’ve never heard of it. That should be great. Let’s do it. And so I was more than eager to jump on it.

Where did you find this thing?

Craig: I heard about it last year, and I don’t know a lot about Adult Swim. Is it a channel? What I know is it

Todd: like a Part of Cartoon Network. I’ve never figured that out. It’s

Craig: like a part of Cartoon Network. I think it’s like a production team. Again, like I didn’t look it up. I should have.

I think it’s a production team that does mostly animated shows. And yeah, they are connected to some network. And it’s, it’s animation for the most part for adults. And so it’s, it’s adult humor and I’ve always heard good things about it. It’s just never anything that I’ve gravitated towards, but I heard about this movie last year and I don’t remember how I, you know, I, I look at all these horror websites, so I’m sure that’s where I saw it.

And I just remember reading in the first thing that I read about it. And I want to emphasize it right now. If you have any interest, movie and you should because it’s good and it’s funny and it’s a good, it’s funny and it’s a good horror movie. So if you’re interested in a good funny holiday horror movie, stop listening right now because the fun of this movie is not knowing anything about it.

And there are so many just insane, twists and turns and surprises that you would never see coming and that is the fun of it. Is it like a cinematic masterpiece? Absolutely not.

Clip: I don’t think it’s a cinematic masterpiece, but I think that it is great.

Todd: You know what you sent me this and I read, like, a thing.

What starts as a simple Yule log feed devolves into a surrealist nightmare, and that’s about all I read. And I was like, oh, that sounds clever. And then I saw Adult Swim, and that reminded me, and the whole concept reminded me of, Oh, this must be, like, Too Many Cooks. Have you seen Too Many Cooks?

Craig: No, if I have, I don’t remember.

Todd: Dude, too many cooks came out. God, I could think it was before I came to China. Was it 2015 or 2016, something like that? It was this weird thing that came on at like 2 a. m. or like close to midnight or whatever, unannounced on the Cartoon Network or the Adult Swim time or whatever it would just, it just popped on and it starts out as a introduction.

Like it’s like the full house introduction, you know, the, the TV show full house. And the people popping in and smiling with the freeze frame while their name shows up, you know. Jim Jones as the next door neighbor and so and so is this, right? And it’s got this peppy song in the background. It takes

Clip: a lot to make a stew A pinch of salt and laughter too A scoop of kids to

Todd: And it starts out like that, but it keeps going. It’s like, how many people are in this? And then you realize, Oh, this is a joke. And then the joke goes on. It gets weirder until finally it gets so bizarre that it’s like, strange things are happening. Like the picture kind of gets weirded out, like somebody’s intercepted the transmission.

And then there’s this like sinister character that starts popping up in the background. Again, this is another thing that if you, if you want to see it, I shouldn’t spoil it for you, but it just devolves into craziness. And it ends up being like 20 minutes long, this thing you expect to end after 30 seconds goes on and on and gets more and more insane.

And I have showed it to everybody who has never seen it before. And so when I saw this and I saw, oh, it’s kind of a thing that probably was similar where it’s supposed to be just this yule log. You probably just came on and you started watching it, but then it evolved into something else. I thought, I wonder if this is by the same guy.

And it turns out it is. Casper Kelly. Mm hmm. What a great idea!

Clip: What a great idea, I wish I had thought of it. It is a great idea, right?

Craig: It’s so clever, like these, going to look for this movie, I think I found it on Max, but instead of typing in Adult Swim Yule Log, I just typed in Yule Log. Oh, big mistake.

And

Clip: there were like, Fifteen different ones!

Craig: Heck yeah, there are. Like, this is a thing! Oh, you don’t know this? I mean, I knew it was a thing, like, I knew you could get a Yule log. I didn’t, on your TV, I didn’t know that there was, like, a whole

Clip: genre.

Todd: Oh yeah, dude! Bic and I used to turn on a Yule log, I mean, like, pretty much from the beginning of December to the end.

If the television isn’t on, we’re watching something, we’ve got a Yule log video playing. Just cause it keeps things cozy and warm. It’s really nice.

Craig: It is nice. I, I’m a fan of Roku city. You’re in China, I don’t know if you know what that is. When you leave the Roku on, it just does this nice like animated cityscape.

I enjoy it.

Todd: It

Craig: pans

Todd: by, and different buildings come up. It’s nice. And it changes every now and then.

Craig: Yeah, and it’s, it’s nice. Seasonal. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: I saw that at my parents house. I dig it.

Craig: Yeah. The Yule log stuff. It’s nice. And that’s how it starts. Like, there are so many things that I love about this movie and I couldn’t find anything about it behind the scenes, but it’s, it’s plot heavy and I don’t know how much of the plot we want to go through, but I just thought it was, it just starts.

It’s a Yule log and you’re just watching a Yule log and there’s Beautiful instrumental, good King Wenceslas music and the crackling fire. And it’s just exactly what you would expect of a Yule log. And that goes on for two minutes and 25 seconds. And you kind of maybe hear some things in the background.

Like maybe you hear a car approach or something. I don’t know, but it’s very subtle. Doing this podcast, I have learned if you really want to experience a movie, you really need to listen to it. With good headphones or earbuds. Yeah, because there’s there’s so much in the soundscape that you’ll miss Otherwise now, of course, I enjoy watching movies with my partner and part of that experience is reacting and talking and and So I don’t, I don’t want to sit with Alan, both of us in earbuds, just so that we can hear the subtleties of the soundscape.

If you’re watching it by yourself, pop in the earbuds, because there’s little sound things that are going on throughout. Yeah. So, when we finally hear something, this woman comes in and she’s on the phone. And she’s saying like, I don’t know. It was like, people are in the wrong place or something. So now I have to clean this cabin and she’s cleaning it.

I thought she was just a cleaning lady. I think she is also the landlord. It comes out later, but whatever, it doesn’t matter. But we’re only seeing this through the lens that is shooting. The fireplace. And that’s one of the things that I love about this movie is because I thought, Oh, this is going to be really interesting because we’re going to only see a movie that’s shot from this perspective.

And that doesn’t end up being the case, but when it changes, I thought that I would be disappointed, but I wasn’t because it continues to be interesting.

Clip: Yes. Oh God.

Craig: Anyway, but, so this lady’s cleaning and then somebody knocks on the door and this woman is like,

Clip: can I borrow your phone, my phone? Don’t you have a cell phone?

It, it died. This, it just ain’t my day. Oh, this, here’s my son.

Wait, what are you Now you can’t Now you What are you You can’t come in here!

Craig: And you see run across the frame, cause the camera hasn’t moved all this time. We’ve never seen anybody above the knee. You see this big, scary man chase this maid, landlady, whatever. Across the frame and then you hear that other woman’s voice say Remember to say nice things to her girls like to hear nice things

Clip: Mm hmm,

Craig: and then there’s this horrible like flashy Violent imagery over the fire that we’re looking at.

Clip: Mm hmm

Craig: And the woman stops screaming and blood sprays all over the fire and the mom says You Did that feel good? Did you get your yuckies out? Oh God,

Todd: that was so gross.

Craig: And I am thinking, what

Todd: am

Craig: I watching? But that is the magic of this movie. Yes. Because I kept feeling that over and over again. What am I watching?

And ultimately, because of that, I thought it was like a super, super fun experience.

Todd: It was. So I found an interview with the director, and he said that they were orig he his original idea was maybe we do this whole thing in like, mostly audio. Watching this Yule Log video at home one day, he was like, what would happen if like, some blurry legs just kind of walked by the Yule Log?

You know, how would people respond to that? And then he was thinking, what if we did a whole thing with mostly audio? But then he kind of thought that might not be as great. And so he ended up pitching this idea to the folks at Adult Swim. And because he was able to shoot it for such a low budget, he was able to more or less shoot it under the radar.

Like, it didn’t have to go all the way up for approvals, you know, to the top. As long as he kept it, I read in the upper six figures, he said? Mid to upper six figures? Because anything over a certain amount, you know, has to be greenlit. And and he didn’t think this would get greenlit just because it’s such a weird concept.

He originally was gonna do like Two hours of yule log video before the movie kicked in and then he realized they because they were gonna put it in this Prominent location on the time slot it came after I guess the season 6 finale of Rick and Morty which I’ve never seen But I guess it’s a really really popular TV show.

Clip: Yeah,

Todd: he was like, oh we need to shorten this up So people don’t click away So what he said that first they were gonna they tried 10 minutes and he said that felt like three years

Clip: Yeah, and

Todd: so they ended up shortening it to what two and a half and that felt about right

Clip: Yeah

Todd: That was like the genesis of this idea and all these a couple other filmmakers who do weird things like that I mean in a way this movie gets very lynchian there are parts in here that are a little bit like eraser head

Craig: Yeah,

Todd: it just gets very surreal after a point.

Craig: Yeah

Todd: And so, he got some great ideas from some other people, and, uh, it just all kind of spiraled out from this. Uh, he got an idea from his daughter for doing the whole elevator thing. Oh god, that’s great. Yeah, I don’t know if we want to walk through the whole thing. Maybe we I guess that’s What we do here, right?

But, ah, it, at some point, it does come out, and it’s clever, the way that it comes out into the big scene. You hear that the murderer and his mother or whatever, like, oh no, someone’s at the door, quick, we gotta hide the body. So they’re cleaning up, and they drag the body out, and then you hear this couple come in.

And then he kind of walks over and says something, she says, oh, there’s a camera here. And he says, oh yeah, that’s just the thing, the thing I was recording. And then he zooms out from the camera to the whole room.

Craig: Yes, yes. And so that’s our first big shift in perspective is just a zoom out so that you see the room, you know, that the fireplace is in.

And then we stay there for a very long time.

Todd: Yeah, like 20 minutes.

Craig: I felt like every I don’t know. I’m not going to put a timestamp on it, but every so often it just felt like it became a different movie. Yeah. You start out, this seems like a crazy slasher with this, these crazy, who knows who they are, but they’re weird and, and, and violent and raping and killing, and then they run and hide.

And then this couple comes in and it’s a romantic drama for the next, like 20 minutes,

Todd: at least. It’s like a, Lifetime Christmas movie or something for a little while

Craig: almost yeah Because you know, they’re they’re lounging in front of a fireplace in this rustic cabin, which looks very nice And and you know, like it’s got a bear like they’re he’s lounging on a bearskin rug and stuff This is Alex and Zoe I didn’t write down all the actors names because I didn’t recognize any of them Alex is played by Justin Miles Zoe is played by Andrea Lang if you want to see the other actors You’re gonna have to look him up because I didn’t write him down because I didn’t recognize anybody.

So Like this is a thing that he does like he films fires for these yule log videos and he’s real proud of it Yeah,

Todd: apparently he doesn’t make a killing but he makes enough to get by is what he says. Somebody actually asks him about it Oh gosh, it’s funny. I wondered about this though. Every time I turn on that yule log video.

I think What if I were the guy who had my Yulog videos up on Netflix? Like, is somebody making bank from this? YouTube especially, because that pays you by the watch. You put a three hour video up on YouTube and if people are looping it and watching it all the way through, that’s your way to potential riches.

Craig: Yeah, there’s a lot of meta commentary. Which I also, like, it hits, like, I don’t, I don’t know if this movie will stand the test of time, but for right now, all the meta commentary really hits, like, there’s, you know, meta commentary about the fact that all he does is set up a camera. An expensive camera because he’s bougie, but he sets up a camera and films fires, but he’s a content creator, you know, like, and he’s making money and he’s really proud of the fact that like, he went to like Bali or something and like filmed it.

Filmed a campfire and that became really popular. That one really hit big.

Todd: Well,

Craig: the, I know we were kind of going plot wise, but he, I don’t know. There’s a lot of stuff with them. What it comes down to is that he’s brought her there to propose to her. Yes. And he eventually does. She

Todd: doesn’t agree. Like she just, she’s not ready to say yes, but she’s not ready to say no either.

It’s like, she keeps steering the conversation other ways.

Craig: But one of my. Before you go on, one of my favorite things about this part is that while we’re seeing this, Yes. the way that the camera is framed, there is an ice bucket in the right corner. And while the people in the background are talking, this ice bucket is in the foreground.

And I thought that this was so clever because I thought this would really happen. I didn’t have to suspend my disbelief for this. The camera focused on them while they were talking and doing things. But at some point, the crazy man killer who’s hiding in the house. Peaks out from a door behind, but it’s reflected in the ice bucket and the camera refocuses.

Yeah. It pulls focus away from them and focuses on the ice bucket, and I believe that that would happen. Mm-hmm . With

Clip: if.

Craig: A good stationary camera, if the stationary camera detects motion in another place, it will readjust focus. And it was just so, and he’s not doing anything. He’s just this big hulking guy and like.

Overalls or something and a creepy like paper mask. We never see his face, but he appears to be deformed underneath it. But he’s just wearing this like paper mask of like a blonde, handsome guy.

Todd: Pleather face.

Craig: Yeah. He’s credited his pleather face.

Todd: Oh

Craig: boy. But I loved that shit. I like, I just thought there were so many clever things and it keeps doing that.

Like, so he’ll peek out. And the, the camera will refocus on him and then he’ll go back in the room that he’s in and it will refocus on them because now that’s where the motion is. So there’s

Todd: always this, like, you can’t get too wrapped up in this because you’re constantly reminded that there’s a sinister presence that could burst out and kill them at any time or one of them might walk away and, you know, get murdered and, you know, you just don’t know what’s going to happen, but it’s there until the cops show up.

And there’s a knock on the door, and they open it up, and they go over there, and you can, and the sheriff and his deputy come walking in.

Craig: They’re doing rounds because they found a body on the mountain.

Todd: And then, the cop starts talking about

Clip: Where’d you get the log? Uh, just down the road a little bit. From the tree with the rocks around it in a circle?

Yeah, I think so. Why? Is there something wrong? Mm hmm. That’s a hanging tree. They used to hang slaves on it. Oh my god. I, I, I didn’t know. I I mean, how was I supposed to know? It just was a cool looking log. And the branch I cut it off was dead, so Didn’t you see the plaque? No, I didn’t see the plaque. Did you see a plaque?

No, we, we saw no plaques, Sheriff. Oh, Diane took down that plaque, Sheriff. Yeah, she rents that place out for weddings down there. They don’t want to read about slavery. She took down the plaque? Yes, because of weddings. Well, it’s her land, but she shouldn’t have done that.

Todd: And then he goes into this lore about how that tree is a sacred tree to the Indians nearby.

And I’m like, oh my god, this is getting hilarious. So now we have

Craig: And the tree feeds on fear and the iron from all the blood spilled there.

Clip: And at this point I’m like, yesss. Like, I’m so into this.

Todd: And so he asks for a glass of water and the woman comes in and like, they’re just chatting and then he like, when she gives him the water, he dumps it on the log.

The guy’s like, what are you doing? He’s like, I really think you should stop burning that log. In fact, you should take it out and you should bury it somewhere in like a sacred way and don’t even touch it. Say a

Clip: prayer. He calls it like the Hillbilly Bermuda Triangle or something. It’s crazy.

Todd: And then the guy’s like, uh, or, I can’t remember who our main character is.

He looks at the guy and says, you really believe this stuff, don’t you? And then his deputy goes, oh yeah, ask him to tell you sometime about the aliens. So then he leaves. And I’m thinking in my head. God. God, I hope they’re going to be aliens in this movie after this, because they’ve already piled two things on.

You’ve got the killer in the house and you have an evil log,

Craig: right? Well, a cursed log, right? Like, I don’t know what’s going on here, but this is also the point where all of a sudden we start having lots of flashbacks. But the way that they do flashbacks, I love,

Clip: oh yes,

Craig: the flashbacks are set. In the same location in different time periods and the way they do it.

Todd, you’re the technician. I don’t know how to

Todd: explain this, but they like, it’s like dragging a split screen across the screen, but maybe you’ll, you’ll go all the way across, or maybe you’ll only go halfway across and while the action still going on, or

Craig: maybe that, yeah, maybe the flashback will just be a segment that travels across, but it’s, but it’s.

It’s all in the same location, so it’s just like, you’re seeing people in black and white.

Todd: Like the same cabin. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s all in sync, like it’s all happening at the same time.

Todd: And the guy sets this up because you hear an audio when they first come into the house before we ever meet this couple.

He says something to her, to his girlfriend about, oh yeah, like this cabin’s been here since the Civil War and has hardly changed at all. And that’s what you see in the flashback. It’s like, perfectly overlaid. When the screen swipes over, so it’s just, it’s just so fun. It’s

Craig: neat. Yeah. Yeah. It’s neat and it’s fun and it’s not just one time period.

Like you see multiple time periods of different things, mostly bad things, but you don’t see those bad things from the beginning. Like you just get glimpses of like two boys in like coonskin caps playing. More. I don’t know, any other of number things, there ends up being like two or three different past plotlines.

Clip: Yes.

Craig: But they don’t start out scary and violent, they just start out kind of as establishing shots, and they go by very quickly, but then you learn more about them as they go on, and you see that lots of bad things have happened here.

Todd: Yeah, and think for a moment. of the technical wizardry required for this because the director said, he said, you know, we did not have time or the ability to go in and like do crazy editing here.

This is all one long 20 minute shot from the Yule log at the beginning until eventually We slip into more of movie mode, but until then, he’s like, we had to get all this in one take, and we had to get the timing right. These characters had to leave space, right, for these flashbacks to happen on half the screen or in front of the screen.

And so they rehearsed like crazy, these two, before they went in to do this extremely long scene where they even had to get the timings right to allow for the flashback. I mean, it’s pretty incredible. It is. This is all in one shot for so long, with these things happening.

Craig: Yes, and the acting is great. Like I really don’t have any complaints if I were to complain about anything It would just be nitpicking and eventually there’s some cgi And it looks like they didn’t have a lot of money and I don’t care probably they didn’t I don’t care It’s it’s it’s fun.

And like I get it. It’s cgi. Whatever. I Yeah, it looks like cgi fine. Whatever they worked with what they had. This is an entertaining movie and You It’s, it’s well shot. They, you know, a lot of times I talk about cinematography and mostly what I’m talking about is just if things look beautiful. In this, I think it’s very skillful cinematography in terms of style and technique.

There are just so many cool, innovative, in my opinion, I’ve never seen a movie like this.

Todd: It’s very unique.

Craig: It takes you in such different places. Again, like it feels like several different movies, but they are interwoven so well that it doesn’t seem jarring. Like, like you said, we know that those killers are there.

But we almost really forget about them because after the relationship movie, this Hallmark movie where they’re dealing with their things and he wants to propose, but she’s reticent for reasons that we don’t really know. But eventually after he proposes and she can’t decide, he’s like, you know, I know that you’ve been through a lot.

Do you maybe need to up your medication?

Clip: Right.

Craig: Which is a really difficult to say. Conversation to have with anybody and then there’s this whole debate in that part I’m trying to get to the next part but I there were things that I wanted to hit here where He wants to get married and she’s like and this seems very melodramatic, but I understand her point of view She says The planet is dying, Alex.

How do you plan for the future when there is none? And she goes on this whole thing, like, how do you bring kids into this world? And it feels very melodramatic, but I think that people are feeling these feelings, so I get it. This feels very timely. Yeah. And then he says to her, every period of time feels like the worst time when you’re in it.

And he says, pick an era. And then we get like a flashback to slavery, which we’ve already kind of established before. And then they have this whole debate about panicking about the state of the world. And I know this movie came out in 2022. And people were thinking about this then, but I think that this is something that is on people’s mind.

And I just thought that this was a very timely conversation. And it actually hit me somewhere. When he said, Everybody thinks that the time that they’re going through is the worst time.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah, it’s true.

Craig: Maybe that’s true! I think it is.

Todd: Whenever I get really, really down, I go back and I think, Now, wait a minute.

It’s not World War II. Yet, anyway. Yeah. And I imagine how scared people were, and how people thought the world was going to hell, and nothing was ever going to be the same again, and just, just this living nightmare. And so, like, that ended, and, you know. Everybody kind of recovered from that and so that these kinds of thoughts give me hope the black plague world war ii You know that kind of stuff.

Craig: Yeah, right. Yeah, right change is scary and I you know, I understand that a lot of people are You know concerned about the state of the world as am I? God, I I need to up my meds. I get it, but that actually kind of hit home for me. Like it does put some things in context. So the thing that I was trying to get to is then it turns into another movie because.

Not unlike a movie that we reviewed, I think, in the last year, Barbarian, another group of people shows up and they’re like, We booked this place too!

Clip: Yep.

Craig: And it turns out they did.

Clip: Mm hmm.

Craig: And so nobody’s really in the wrong, but they’re in this bad situation, and this other group of young people, there’s Two guys and two girls, I think, and the one, the most stonery of them all, is like, Yeah, we all took edibles to hit right when we got here, so

We’re gonna have to stay.

Todd: They’re there because they’re going to investigate lynchings and alien abductions that have been linked to the cabin for their paranormal podcast. And this one, you know, this one offended me because,

I just love, they’re really poking fun at the podcasters, and fair enough, they should be, it becomes obvious very quickly that, yeah, like, These guys have a podcast, but probably not very many people listen. And there’s certainly not making money from it yet. But, but at first the stoner dude sort of tries to pass it off as his job.

There’s so much comedy and I just loved it. Also, you know, you were saying barbarian that was obviously instantly coming to me with that mix up. The other thing I was thinking of was because we’re in the single shot for so long. And very soon it does change. But we’re in the single shot for so long that I was getting almost like alien abduction vibes.

You remember that movie?

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: Now it’s not that that was a static camera, but that was a very home movie type feeling. And I think the stuff that we’ve been talking about would have felt more melodramatic and more fake had it been shot in a more Hollywood style. Yeah, absolutely. But because it was just this one take with this static camera, like, I could buy into all this totally because, you know, people are just awkward, people have awkward conversations and all this stuff.

It was great. I loved it. I was so into it. I did too. But I was also laughing my head off at some of these people.

Craig: Yeah, but, and it feels more real because, you know, people are having conversations and whatnot and that’s fine. But the camera doesn’t go to focus completely. Tight on them. It’s just filming the whole room So you also see all the other people in the room and at you know At some points there are four or five people in the

Todd: room

Craig: And some of them are listening and some of them are not and

Todd: walking in and out of the frame

Craig: Yeah, it it feels more observational

Todd: Mm hmm.

Craig: I don’t know, you know, it’s just a style choice, but for this it really works. At some point They try to call the landlady and they hear the phone ringing because she’s the one that got killed apparently and they find her phone under The couch and then the new people who’ve arrived.

Todd: Ben, Beth, Holly, and Henry.

Craig: Yeah Here are my notes. Ben with the mustache Beth the blonde, Henry the stoner, and Holly the slut. That’s a mean thing to say. That’s a mean thing to say, but that’s what I wrote about her in my notes. She seems like a nice girl.

Todd: But it was also classic, like, you know, Friday the 13th.

Craig: Yeah, right, right, right, right.

Like these stereotypical characters. All of them.

Clip: Mhm.

Craig: But they talk about, you know, they’re doing this podcast or whatever, and they’re telling them all these things that they know, because they’ve done their research. So great. I love that. Like, you know, bring in these characters. And on the one hand, they’re a little bit douchey.

But on the other hand, they seem like fun people, you know, and they talk about, as you’ve already mentioned, how the mountain has been the site of alien objections and lynchings. And they start to tell this story about this lady named Esther Dinkins. And this is another, like, flashback, you know, like, I think it turns out that she’s abducted by aliens.

I don’t know. It was a little bit difficult to follow. But as they’re talking about all of this, somebody says enough about your podcast and I just died laughing. I just died because. I have nothing else to talk about. Like, like, I work and I do this. And so when I’m at work with my friends, I talk about the podcast a lot.

And I’m sure they are sick of it. Craig was triggered. I’m sure that they are like, enough about your f ing podcast. We get it.

Todd: Oh, it’s funny. Cause I can

Craig: only imagine how annoying it is. If I were in their shoes, I would just, I don’t know how they keep from just rolling. Their eyes like popping out of their heads from rolling so far back.

I don’t know.

Clip: Uh huh

Craig: Boy, and then we get introduced. Yeah, isaac and rosa. You should talk about isaac and rosa This is

Todd: isaac and rosa are the the in the past, right? Is this where we get that scene with the two of them?

Craig: Well again, it’s a lot of cuts, you know Like we get these backstories in 30 second increments So you don’t know who these people are, you have to put it together, but over the course of the movie you figure it out.

Todd: Isaac is very conveniently sat at a table right in front of the fire, perfectly framed for us. He is a guy, who is a slave owner, and Rosa is his slave gal. She is serving him his dinner, and they have some very pleasant conversation. I don’t remember how many flashbacks this plays out. At first, we don’t really get a sense that anything’s wrong.

I think we just, they just have some chat.

Craig: It seems very friendly.

Todd: I was thinking, oh god, this could get really cringey, right? This whole slavery thing,

Craig: you know? No, of course, of course. I, I, you know, I, I don’t know. It, it is. It’s a sensitive subject. But, I think Even in this very first one, or one of the early ones, I may be jumping ahead, but she says You know, he compliments her on the food that she’s made him and blah, blah, blah.

The

Todd: cornbread. I love it. It’s so moist.

Craig: Right. And she says

Clip: I made a quote for William. It is getting cold and it wasn’t ready when he was sold to Mr. Luther. But um, you know, he’s scared of thunder. So now he can look at this in every day’s blue skies. And he always was scared of thunder, that boy. It’s a nice blanket, Rosa.

I’d like to touch it, but I don’t want to get corn on it. It looks soft. So will you take it to him? And while you’re there, can you see how he’s doing?

Craig: I think that’s all we hear at that point. But then the movie changes again because at this point, I don’t, if it’s time for bed or something, I don’t know.

Well,

Todd: they all just decide Yeah, to go up to their various areas. Somebody goes up to shower, somebody goes into a hot tub, somebody goes to get changed. I think the other two go to their bedroom. The room’s empty, right? And the fireplace reignites on its own. And only at this point do we change from our static camera to a view from inside.

Inside the fireplace and suddenly it’s like a POV shot almost of like a demon or something kind of like Amityville 2 or whatever and it goes up the stairs and into the room where is it? Ben? Is he the guy showering? It’s classic person showering right? The shower curtain swings open and Ben looks down like what and then whack whack whack and I was like This is the log killing him, isn’t it?

The log?

Craig: Oh, I had no idea what was going on, because it’s the camera. Yeah. The camera is smashing his face. Bro, the RPOV.

Todd: Oh, I instantly thought, this has got to be the log. I was just laughing. I’m like, so the log floated out of the fireplace, went upstairs and whacked this guy in the head. Oh my God. It was brutal though.

It was very bloody.

Craig: Well, and then it’s immediate, it’s immediately confirmed. You see the log fly back into the fireplace. Oh boy. No, but I’m, I’m, I’m right there with you. Like I thought, Oh my God, that is so funny. Like this is,

Clip: this is literally a

Craig: killer Yule

Clip: log.

Craig: Oh my God. So funny. I’m

Todd: also thinking, where did the killers go?

Where did the murderers go? If they all retreated to their rooms, there can’t be that many rooms.

Craig: They’re gone for so long. I know. And where are they? I don’t know. They do come back. That was

Todd: weird.

Craig: Yeah, more goes on, like, I don’t know. They all come

Todd: back in and kind of sit around.

Craig: They’re all sitting there in front of the fire again and like talking and flirting and blah blah blah.

And now

Todd: it’s all, it’s like regular movie style at this point. We don’t have the static camera anymore. Uh huh. Yeah.

Craig: One of the new girls is flirting with the guy that proposed to his Yeah. Fiancé or whatever. Kind of silly, but the big stoner guy who happens to be Asian and it’s a joke because they say that the girl that he’s with only dates Asian guys and she’s like, no, I don’t.

But he starts seeing things. First it’s the bearskin rug moving, but then there’s a little Southern man calling to him from the pub. And when this

Clip: happened, I was.

Craig: This to me, that’s why I said, don’t listen to this. If you haven’t seen this movie, because this weird shit just comes out of nowhere,

Todd: like

Craig: what, like now there’s

Clip: a little man in the fireplace.

Todd: Because I had seen too many cooks, and I realized this connection, I was really ready for everything. I’m like, okay, this is gonna be one of those movies.

And it is, it’s also very David Lynch, where just bizarre shit happens, and you’re not sure if it’s real, or if it’s a dream, or what’s going on. Yeah, he crawls, the middleman says, come here into the fireplace. He crawls into the fireplace, through the fire, and ends up in a room. Behind the fireplace and the man’s like you must be really good at this because you didn’t get burned by the fire And it is a room that is half on flames, but it’s like cheesy CGI effects actually Yeah, and he’s like, why don’t you come sit down and I’ll serve you something

Craig: but I like it because it’s surreal.

It’s dreamland It’s

Todd: just super surreal There’s like a bartender behind a little bar there that has a the head of a deer and doesn’t even move

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: And eventually, he just says, I want What, he tries to serve him some stuff, he tries to give him something to drink, he asks for a Dr. Pepper, and he’s like, Well, I don’t have a Dr.

Pepper, but I got a nurse What was it?

Clip: Nurse Nutmeg. That’s even better than a Dr. Pepper. That’s ridiculous.

Todd: And easier to find if you know what I mean. Anyway, he says, well, let me show you something and he leads him to an elevator

Craig: yeah, but even before that like real quick out of nowhere a Second Henry pops up over the first Henry’s shoulder and it’s like don’t listen to him.

Don’t do what he says

Wild it is wild it’s entirely Surreal Anything can happen and I love that. I love it. And then you’re the fireplace becomes like an elevator, but it’s so cool.

Todd: He takes him into the elevator and it closes and there’s a little fireplace. It’s just like an opening. With a fireplace behind it and he presses a button.

It’s almost like Willy Wonka where this this elevator is sideways and up and down and it takes him into behind different fireplaces. And this was the idea that the director’s daughter gave him this idea of this elevator that could take you from fireplace to fireplace. I don’t know. Kind of like the flu network in Harry Potter or something, right?

It’s brilliant. And he goes by these different scenes looking into people’s homes and really briefly. Was, unmistakably, the guy from Too Many Cooks is one of the scenes, like this big kind of, I, I just want to say odd looking guy with a beard and everything who’s sitting there, and I was like, oh my god, there’s, I wonder if he’s gonna come into play, he never really does, but, uh, there for a brief moment I thought he was the crazy pleather face guy, but he wasn’t.

Oh. But anyway, yeah. And he takes him to one fireplace and he says, do you know who that is in there?

Craig: Cause he says it can go through time too. Yes. Yes, that’s right.

Todd: And he says to him, and this is kind of the theme, right? That you referred to earlier.

Clip: So I hear you’re the screw up of the family.

Todd: Oh,

Clip: that’s what I just heard.

Sisters are two doctors. One’s a surgeon. Yeah, but um, my parents just want me to be happy. So they’re happy you’re a drug dealer. Well, they don’t know that. I’m also a podcaster. Podcaster? Good for you. What if I told you I could wipe all the failures from your life?

Todd: Just wipe it clean. Take this magic marker and crawl through this fireplace.

That woman in there? Do you know who she is? Oh, that’s my mother. Yeah, and do you notice anything? He’s like, she’s pregnant? Is that with me? And he’s like, yep. You crawl through the fireplace, take a piece of paper from that pad next to her while she’s sleeping, write on it A and put it on the fridge and come back through.

And he’s like, well, what if I wake her up? She’ll, like, totally freak out. It’ll change everything. He’s like, well, you’re not gonna do that, right? You’re gonna be very careful. So he does. He crawls through there, writes A on the paper, sticks it on the refrigerator, crawls back through the fireplace and stands in there.

And then suddenly, he’s holding a red magic marker instead of a black one. And I don’t remember exactly what the dialogue is here.

Craig: The, well, he says, I think you did it wrong or something. And the kid is like, no, I did exactly what you said. I put a plus plus on her stomach. I mean, on, on the refrigerator.

Todd: I mean, on her stump.

What? On her stomach? With the magic marker? And he’s like, that’s not a magic marker. And he looks down, he has a bloody knife in his hand.

Craig: It’s mean.

Todd: And, yeah, his, uh, mother’s all cut up. Like he’s stabbed her. And then it cuts back out to The crowd in the living room and there’s a new Asian man in the sofa next to the woman.

He’s

Craig: replaced. He’s replaced. I felt bad for that.

Todd: It’s a devil’s bargain kind of thing.

Craig: It is. And the kid is like, but I did, I just did what you told me. And the little man, he says, well, I’d love to debate with you, but I don’t debate with people that don’t exist. And then he disappears. And like you said, he cuts back and he’s been replaced with a new Asian guy.

It’s

Todd: so sad. Yeah.

Craig: Who doesn’t even have a name because it doesn’t matter because they find the body in the shower and then the log just comes out It

Clip: goes crazy Oh my god

Craig: starts killing people crushing it crushes beth’s head It’s henry the new asian guy tries to put it out and like it flies him all around the cabin and kills him

Todd: Yeah, it’s also talking.

It’s like crying out. It’s almost like Rosa, I think. I think it’s, I think we figured, I figured out later it was like,

Craig: it’s saying weird things and I couldn’t figure it out for a while.

Todd: Mm-hmm .

Craig: But as it turns out, honestly, I don’t really understand exactly what’s happening because it’s seems in the end that the log is possessed by Rosa, but it also says things Yeah.

That. other flashbacks that have nothing to do with Rosen like at one point I wrote in my notes. Did I hear? I’m not a sodomite. And then, yeah, I did. I heard that because it comes up later, but like the log at some point is just flying around and say, I’m not a sodomite. What?

Todd: Oh, it’s hilarious.

Craig: This goes on for a long time. They try to call the police and they’re like, the sheriff was already here earlier. And they’re like, uh, we don’t have a sheriff. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So the sheriff is shady now and the log it’s flying through the window. It’s talking, it’s saying arson is another thing that it, that ends up being something else like arson, A R S O N is what I heard.

And I think that’s what you’re supposed to hear, but it, it comes up more. This part, honestly. It, it didn’t feel slow or convoluted to me, but it seems weird, like, to, to go through it point by point, because honestly, not a lot happens, just the log follows them around for a long time.

Todd: Yeah, and they hide, and

Craig: And she says, like, the sheriff was shady, I didn’t tell you before, but I saw him sprinkle something on the fire.

Yeah.

Clip: Why are you just now bringing this up? I know, right? Like, that seems so, like, weird.

Todd: But this is what, they’re stuck in the closet, right? The couple. Yeah. We get this long scene of the couple in the closet where he goes through like every horror movie in like ten minutes. I found this to be funny, almost like a parody of horror movies.

He just keeps reassuring her the way that he does. characters in horror movies reassure people, and it goes to these absurd lengths where he’s also like, by the end of it, this is going to be great because the camera’s still on and we’re going to be rich because there’s going to be a movie about this and who do you want to play you in the movie?

Craig: It’s just, it’s just, it’s going to be, it’s going to be. Theatrical, not straight to Netflix. Yes!

Todd: It’s just this absurd thing going on. In the meanwhile, the log is out scoping out the hallway and sees the vent, hears their voices and I was like, is this log really going to crawl through the vent? It sure does.

And that’s what scares them out of there. But then I think it’s when they leap out of there that they get ambushed by, finally, the murderer. And his mom, and then we get this scene. That was, I think, by far the most disgusting scene of the whole film.

Craig: Now we are back to the slasher movie that we visited briefly for one minute in the beginning.

Todd: Mm-hmm . And

Craig: we are fully.

Todd: Yeah, it’s like the log doesn’t exist anymore.

Craig: Yeah, the big, crazy, gross, disgusting guy has these two beautiful women tied up and is menacing them and is debating which of them he’s going to rape. First, it’s disgusting and like, it’s dark and gross and the mother has the guy, I don’t remember his name, tied up in another room.

This was

Todd: so nasty. Oh my

Craig: god. It’s so gross. But he’s trying to, I don’t know, talk to her. Sweet

Todd: talk her to try to kind of get her to untie him. Sweet talk

Craig: her, right. But she’s on to him. But all the while. She is eating pimento cheese off of a knife, and it’s like smeared all over her face, and like she’s kinda gross anyway, like I’m sure this actress is lovely, but they’ve uglied her up and she’s gross, and she’s got like gross hair.

teeth and stringy hair. And she’s got this like deep, weird Southern accent and everything she says is disgusting. And she’s defending her kid. And then she starts trying to seduce him. And she’s like putting pimento cheese all over his mouth. And like, she’s like, I hope you’re not offended by my pimento cheese bread.

You’ve got pimento cheese bread too. Like, Oh my God. It was so funny. She

Todd: wipes it off his lips and licks it from her fingers is disgusting Disgust by far the most gross part of the whole movie

Craig: But honestly in that moment when I was watching this I was like, this is great. Oh, yeah

Todd: 100%.

Craig: This is a great scene.

She is up and scary like he’s trying to manipulate her and she’s playing along. But it’s also obvious that she totally knows what he’s doing and she does and she calls him out on it eventually. Like she is a psycho. She is a psycho right out of the hills have eyes or any of those other movies.

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: Like it’s in the midst of this. Ridiculous film which I’ve been having so much fun with but seriously like it’s one movie to the next and this movie is Scary.

Clip: Yeah, it is

Craig: and then the aliens are

Todd: Sure enough there’s a bright light coming in it interrupts hit her interrupts pleather face and she goes to the window and sees a spaceship like a classic flying saucer land and through the door comes this alien that is sort of an amalgamation of different aliens. It’s got that classic black eyes, you know, round head look, but it’s also has all these weird pores all over his head and it’s carrying this disgusting gun.

And the director said, it looks

Craig: like a flashlight.

Todd: Yeah, it really did. I don’t think that was an accident. The director said that he had the help of this alien. Friend of his he’s an effects artist that this was all shot down in Georgia and the director is from Georgia and most of these Actors are from Georgia or North Carolina, South Carolina that this is how they were able to kind of shoot It’s so cheap, but he said that this friend of his he’s got a warehouse full of effects stuff It just he never throws anything away when a productions done with stuff.

He grabs it So he’s like the kind of guy who’s just got everything and he is game for anything and a real go getter He said he’s the kind of guy you can go to and say hey Could I have like a creature that’s just like made of eyeballs and he’s like And he’ll be like, yeah, man, I got like a thousand eyeballs in my truck there.

Let’s glue them all together. Let’s go. And it was their brainstorming that came up with this alien. And he said, this guy was totally game to cobble this thing together. And it is crazy. He’s got a giant bottle hanging off of his shoulder attached to this gun. He shoots this flashlight gun, which shoots tendrils out and goes in the eyes, nose, and mouth.

It’s crazy. of this woman, and then sucks, I guess, liquefies all of her internal organs and sucks it into this, uh, gun, which then starts to fill up this tank that he’s carrying around. And she just gets sucked down to a comical, like, Judge Doom, you know, flat, Skin person on the floor. Alex manages to get out somehow.

Craig: No, no, he gets sucked too. He

Todd: gets it too, but not completely, I guess. But he’s worse for wear. Yeah. But then, while this is happening, we get this clever stuff with a split screen. Where in the other room, while this guy is assaulting the girl with the boobs. Holly. We get a split screen of those two kids playing Cowboy and Indian.

They have a knife.

Craig: It’s because we now get the story of Isaac and Rose. That’s right. Like, she Oh, God. She had We didn’t know who the person was. I didn’t know if it was her husband. You know, sadly, and this is obviously very serious, but sadly, slave families were split up on purpose because they didn’t want them to have familial So I didn’t know if it was her husband or her, I didn’t know what it was, but it turned, he had been sold off somewhere else.

And Isaac, the white man had promised that he was going to sell him to this nice slave owner, but

Todd: instead he sold him to the bad

Craig: one, to the bad one. And she gets very angry and he kind of tries to put her in her place and says, I’m sorry about your son. And she says, it was our son, our son. And then she throws the blanket that she made over him and stabs him in the head.

And so we realize now that the log hasn’t been saying Arson, it has been saying Our Son.

Clip: Mm hmm.

Craig: Right. And so at this point, I thought, okay, the log is Rosa, but ultimately I don’t know if that is the mythology of this.

Todd: I think it’s just like a bunch of Past spirits of the yeah of the house or something the

Craig: bad.

Yeah, maybe it started with her I think it started with her because then we also see that she gets hung from that tree

Clip: Mm hmm,

Craig: and the log came from that tree So maybe it started with her but I don’t think it’s just her because we see other things too. We see some guy who’s Dressed in women’s lingerie who gets beaten by a, to death by another man.

I don’t have any idea what was going on there, but you’re right. But Rosa, the knife that she used to stab the guy, she had hidden up inside the fireplace. And when the boys were playing, it had fallen out and I don’t think they, did they do anything with it? I think they just put it back, put it back.

Clip: Yep.

Craig: And so then while these two women are being menaced by pleather face, it falls out again and she gets it.

Todd: I don’t

Craig: even remember what, what, what is she able to do with it, just cut herself free?

Todd: Yeah, she cuts herself free and she escapes. Is this the point, though, where she also sees the little man in the fireplace?

Craig: We should just jump to that. I don’t know, like, there’s more alien stuff. There’s a bunch of

Todd: shit going on, honestly.

Craig: Yeah, but, but she, but that’s important. She sees, yes, kinda while all this is going on, yes, and then she goes in there, too. And it’s the same thing. She gets tempted with something, too. I don’t remember what it was.

Like, oh, this is the, a hundred million sperm story. And for every pregnancy, there are a hundred million sperm that could have, you know, fertilized that egg. And did you ever think about if one of those other hundred million, maybe they would have done better things than you, and maybe they wouldn’t have been so miserable, blah, blah, blah.

So go stop your parents from f ing and making you. And she’s like, no.

And I don’t know, they have a funny, you know, they have kind of a funny dialogue.

Todd: Alex somehow comes in, I can’t remember how, but does he pop into the fireplace too, or?

Craig: I don’t know, she, well, I think when, when Zoe refuses the deal, she pops back out of the fireplace.

Todd: Oh, and he, no, he stabs a poker through, into the fireplace.

At one point Oh, that’s right! Yeah, the guy, like a giant poker comes into the room and pins the little guy to the wall, and she crawls out of the fireplace, and you see that Alex had poked a a poker in there, so.

Craig: Right. And she stabs Plutterface in the dick, and then in the eye, and she Alex begs her to kill him, cause he’s not looking good.

Todd: No. He, I thought he might have an alien inside of him, but I guess he didn’t.

Craig: I didn’t know what was going on with him. It doesn’t really matter. He didn’t. Ultimately.

Todd: They get chased around by the, by the log a bunch more. They get out, Holly runs into the forest.

Craig: That was so funny to me like they run out to the car and they realize they don’t have the keys and they’re like the Keys are inside and Holly’s like that.

I’m getting out of here. She just runs away

Clip: and you never see her again. No

Todd: Not like

Clip: slow clap for Holly like she must be fine. She’s fine. Holly must They should have just gone with her

Craig: they do go back in and Holly like has an accent And the log is like threatening them and she’s like, I’m going to Paul Bunyan your ass mother.

But she, she like knocks it into the refrigerator and they somehow lock it in there and then they leave. And then there’s a whole, like, they just, they’re driving, they’re trying to get away and they come to that. Tree the hanging tree or whatever and there’s like a cult of people including the fake sheriff and the deputy Like chanting around the tree.

It’s

Todd: now a satanic cult movie. Yeah

Craig: She plows through them and there’s like this ghostly naked woman in the barn. I have no idea who that was I

Todd: thought it was First that that was, uh, what’s her name? But Holly, but it’s not.

Craig: No.

Todd: Yeah. And

Craig: the guy is like, keep driving. And she’s like, I’ll keep driving until we run out of gas.

So then it cuts to the next morning and presumably they’re very far away and he’s in really bad shape, but she stops at a stoplight and they have a romantic moment where she takes out the engagement ring that he gave her and she was, you know, skeptical, but she puts it on. She’s like, yeah, I will marry you.

And then the flaming CGI log rises. up, you know, right outside her window and, and crashes into them and blows them all like, like blood, like the whole car explodes full of blood.

Clip: And

Craig: then it cuts to some weird Modern office.

Todd: Yeah, it’s like the film freezes pulls out and it’s like it was like a video playing on a computer screen or something And when it pans over it’s the same actor that was playing the slave owner

Craig: Yes, it’s isaac and rosa, but it took me a second to figure that out because they look very different They look modern.

It took me a second. I was like, why did why is that guy so familiar? But it’s isaac and rosa and rosa. Is it the boss? But what is, what are they doing?

Todd: I don’t know. He’s working on some design for something like the Armfield cotton mill lofts or something. And she’s like, Oh, that’s approval. That’s I’ll prove that now she’s his boss.

You know, it’s this kind of this role reversal.

Craig: But they’re also.

Todd: But they’re also married. Yeah. Yes. And they have a kid apparently, but, and cause you see a picture of the kid.

Craig: Yes. You see a family picture of them on his desk and the actor who plays pleather face. Is like their maintenance guy.

Todd: That’s right.

That’s right.

Craig: So it’s like this, I, I, I didn’t, I didn’t know what was going on, but then she’s like, come on, let’s go home. And he’s like, I don’t know. I’ll have to ask the boss. And she’s like, okay, we’ll go ahead and ask the boss. He’s like, well, can I go home early boss? And she’s like, yeah. And they’re smiling and they’re in love and they’re walking out and they see the pleather face guy and he’s happy too.

But then, Everything just starts burning.

Todd: Mm hmm. And suddenly they’re like back to their previous identity.

Craig: Yes. And they realize that all of this is fake and so I didn’t know if it was meant to be that they’re in hell or they’re just still the log. Like, I don’t know.

Todd: I’m not sure we’re ever gonna know.

I’m not even sure there’s a point to it.

Craig: I know. Well, no, I don’t really know about that, but I watched this movie. I woke up yesterday morning and watched this movie first thing. And then I, you know, had my whole day and chaperoned a high school dance until 1130 at night. And then I came home and I wasn’t tired.

So I watched the sequel.

Clip: I want to see it so badly.

Craig: I was a little skeptical of it in the first five, 10 minutes. And then I was like, Oh, I see what they’re doing here and it landed for me hard.

Todd: Really?

Craig: Yeah. I

Todd: read that’s a little different.

Craig: It is. It’s great. Like the, it calls back to most of the things from the first movie at some point, but it does different things too.

We’re not confined to this one cabin. And so it makes it one part horror movie. Equal part Hallmark Christmas movie. Oh, and it’s, it’s perfect. And it does really cool things cinematically. Like when it’s the horror movie it’s shot in letterbox and in really dark tones. And then when it switches to Hallmark, it’s full screen and like really bright and like fun Christmas music.

And sometimes it will do that. Split screen thing, like, where she’ll be on one half of the screen in her horror movie, and on the other half of the screen, the people are in their Hallmark movie. Oh, God. And it manages to Lampoon both these types of slasher horror movies and hallmark movies and just I think the perfect way because I think the best way to lampoon those types of things is to just be since mostly sincere You got to play it straight like like

Clip: yeah,

Craig: yeah play it straight like they lampoon themselves So you don’t have to try too hard the conventions that you’re trying to satirize are ridiculous themselves.

So just, just go a teeny, teeny step further and do it tongue in cheek. I loved it. I thought it was great. I think we should do it next Christmas. I think we should

Todd: too. I, I totally am down for that. Isn’t that, didn’t Will Ferrell also do a satirical lifetime movie horror thing called like, A Deadly Adoption or something like that?

Craig: Maybe, maybe. Where they played

Todd: it 100 percent straight to the point where I think probably people don’t realize it’s a, it’s a parody because it’s so straight, you know, I, this was the director’s very first movie, full length movie. He did a lot of writing and directing for television, a lot in the adult swim area, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, and, and he was really nervous about doing this.

And one. Odd situation to be doing your first feature because he had to do the whole thing in secret because they didn’t want anybody to know about it. And they were, you know, they were trying to keep it from the upper, the higher ups at the company as well as keep it quiet from the general public so as to not to spoil the surprise because they wanted it to be the same kind of thing like too many cooks where you would just discover it.

And I think it worked so well. I just love the surreal oddity of it. It’s just something completely unique. It’s fun all the way through. So it keeps you guessing. You get to a point where you realize the movie’s just gonna be wacky, and we’re just along for the ride, and it’s fun, and yet it still manages to be scary.

Yeah! At points. So it, uh, it just checks all those boxes. I’m so glad to hear that the sequel feeds off of that, you know, kind of continues it, instead of just trying to be something entirely new. Ugh. I loved it. Me too. And so next week, we’re gonna go and we’re gonna do something very, very mean spirited, aren’t we?

Craig: People will probably be able to figure it out just from that. That was that was a good enough tease. But yeah,

Todd: it’s the movie. We can’t help but do this year. Well, I think we’ve got it. We’ve struck a good balance, right?

Craig: Me too. I’m really glad we did this one. I’m glad that we I mean, I like all these.

Movies, but the one that we did before this was dark. The next one that we’re gonna do is dark. This one was fun Yeah, I had a really good time with

Todd: it. It really was fun. Well, that is up for week three We’ve got one more film to go this holiday season Then we go into New Year’s and a brand new year ahead of us.

So if you enjoyed this Please share with a friend some of that holiday cheer. You can just send them straight to our website, ChainsawHorror. com, or just tell them to Google Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast so they can find it wherever they listen to all of their podcasts. And we hope you guys are having a good, happy holiday season right now.

We will see you next week for Christmas time. Until then, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          We turn from last week’s bundle of holiday cheer to about the bleakest, most depressing Christmas horror fare you could find.

Does it intend to make a political statement? Yes. Several. Kind of akin to spending an awkward family holiday dinner with your most overtly racist relatives, it’s not gonna fill you with warmth and goodness. But this is a horror movie, after all, so whaddya expect? So drink up and drink in this highly-emotional feature-length Twilight Zone episode of what happens when a family’s already-awful Christmas Eve festivities get turned completely upside-down.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptAwait Further Instructions (2018)Episode 419, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, Craig, we’re week two into the Christmas season, and, uh, last week we kicked it off with this just nice and warm, fuzzy feeling Christmas movie. I guess it’s only fitting that we follow it up with a terrible, dark, depressing I guess. Story of Christmas gone wrong when this movie started out It started to feel like a cautionary tale about family that doesn’t get along getting together for the holidays Anyway, but devolved into something else entirely.

What we’re doing is Await Further Instructions. It was a 2018 horror film recommended by a number of our patrons. Yeah. Yeah, I had never heard of it before Obviously hadn’t seen it before it looks like it’s a shutter produced film or co produced film Like I said came out in 2018 and was directed by Johnny Kevorkian who did He did a few things and then, sadly, passed away a couple years after this movie was released.

Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah, of a heart attack. Yeah, this is one of, I think, five or six films that he’s done. And then the writer, Gavin Williams, here, wrote a few things. This, I think, was his very first, uh, feature length credit for writing. And then since then has gone on to be a writer on a couple things.

Just really not much, actually, to be honest with you. This is a British production. And yeah, like I said, I have, I had never seen it before. I’d never heard of it before, but the premise was very intriguing. How about you?

Craig: I watch everything. Right. Uh, so yeah, I’d seen it.

Todd: Oh, okay.

Craig: I vaguely, you know, I vaguely remembered it.

I didn’t remember having any strong feelings about it one way or another, but I remembered that there was more than meets the eye to like, The thing that eventually like traps them in the house or whatever. Like I knew where it was going this time around. Okay. Yeah, but I honestly was kind of surprised.

I, I honestly, I think several, multiple people either suggested or specifically requested this movie.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And I was surprised because I just didn’t think anybody knew about it. I just thought it was, you know, one of those. Just random things on the internet that I stumbled across, but I don’t know. Like you said, I mean, ultimately I feel like it’s, it’s commentary about so many things, so many things, but all of it comes, all of it comes down to like, everything is awful.

Like, uh, fam, families are awful. People are awful. Technology is awful. Everything is awful.

Todd: It’s a really depressing movie to watch at Christmas time. It’s a particularly depressing movie to watch at Christmas time of 2024, to be honest.

Craig: Well, and I feel like it’s kind of a trick too, because it takes place at Christmas, and like they have Christmas dinner and they open Christmas presents, but it’s almost like that’s the bait to lure you into this movie.

Like Christmas isn’t, it’s not really that important. It could be any family gathering. I suppose that could be said of. A lot of Christmas movies, but that’s true that Christmas takes a backseat aside from a lot of interesting lighting choices Right. I I did like that like the Christmas lighting scheme Made it visually interesting and it was a it’s not a bad movie I I feel like I’m dunking on it already and I don’t mean to because it’s not a bad movie In fact, I think it’s kind of interesting.

Yeah, it’s but it’s not like a Cheerful holiday romp If that’s what you’re looking for,

Todd: God, no, it’s not at all

Craig: turn away.

Todd: Well, I was, I was actually thinking about that myself after I finished watching it. I was like, did this movie really have to take place during Christmas? And you’re right. It could have been Thanksgiving.

It could have been any excuse really for family that is kind of at odds with each other to get together anyway. So I did, when I kind of came back away from my thoughts, I thought, you know, maybe it does at least serve the theme a little bit. Or at least. In a technical way of getting these people together who honestly wouldn’t be getting together otherwise and oftentimes, sadly, that is the holidays for a lot of us.

It is the time for us to get together when we’re far flung, make that extra effort to get everybody in the same room. People who maybe talk on the phone or maybe haven’t seen or heard from each other for a while. In this case, one of the main, basically, I guess you could say the main character, who is Nick, he’s an adult son.

It sounds like he has not been heard from or seen in three years. He hasn’t been calling his family much. He’s been a bit, I guess you could say, estranged from them. And his mother is very happy to welcome him into the house. But his father is just really off putting from the get go. Angry in a way that like I’m still your dad and how dare you come back after not contacting us You know, it’s a very oh my god.

This guy

Craig: Nick has been estranged from his family I I I’m under the impression that his girlfriend slash fiance. I don’t know on G I I think that it’s very relevant that are the family is Caucasian and on G is Indian. Right. And they’re, they’re also British, which I guess is probably also relevant. Right.

The reason that he’s been estranged for, it seems like she has encouraged him, you know, let’s go to your family’s house for Christmas. You haven’t seen them in a long time. This is subtext. I’m, I’m Reading this into it. Yeah. It’s never, but that’s,

Todd: that’s it’s, it’s never explicitly stated. Yeah.

Craig: That’s the feeling I get because it doesn’t really seem like he wants to go.

Like as soon as they get there, he’s like, seriously, I feel like we’re gonna be ruining everybody’s Christmas. And he’s been estranged for three years and the dad’s pissed off about it. It seems like the reason that he’s been estranged for them for that long is because they’re horrible. Awful people.

Yeah. Aside from the mother, the mother seems lovely and you feel so bad for her that she has to live with these other disgusting, nasty people. Yes. I don’t blame him for being a strange and I feel like that’s a, that’s another thing that the movie addresses and very prescient in 2018 because I feel like this is totally relevant right now.

Sometimes it’s really difficult to get together. with your family if you have significant difference in values and all those types of things and this movie suggests just don’t because It’s not gonna end well Whereas most of these holiday movies like even violent night that we did last year a couple years ago Where you know, like it’s bloody and they’re killing everybody Still, the message is, come together as a family and cherish your family.

No, this movie is, if you come together with your family, you will end up killing each other because

Todd: people are horrible. It’s true. It feels like the movie’s starting out as like a Twilight Zone episode because immediately, well, look, I don’t want to go there yet, but what I’m trying to say is the movie starts that seems to start out as like a classic Twilight Zone episode because it does this high concept premise and it seems to have this moral message that it’s trying to get across at first when I watched it.

I thought, okay, this is like pandemic. Era commentary, right? This is about control and obedience, and to what lengths do we go to to protect each other, to what lengths do we trust the authorities? And

Craig: that is interesting. I find that part of it interesting. It’s just very bleak.

Todd: It is. It’s super bleak. And then I checked it, and I was like, oh, this is 2018.

Uh huh. You know, this is actually pre pandemic by two years. And so I thought, okay, well, they’re not making a direct commentary on that, but you can certainly read that into it. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s similar thematic material. You know, this is also one year after Brexit, I guess? And will you add the racism element in there as well?

And these guys are just absolute dicks. The grandfather especially. The grandfather just sits in a chair and cackles maniacally whenever he pisses somebody off with his racist comments. Or here’s his adult son Tony also do the same.

Clip: I don’t know what’s going on. Letting anyone come flooding in. It’s always got to end like this.

Gramps, you can’t say that. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinions, but still. Mr Milgram, I know we’ve only just met and I don’t know much about your life, but that’s not fair. You’re right. You don’t know anything about Gramps? Kate, please, let’s not blow it out of proportion. Gramps is being out of order.

This country used to be great, till all them Johnny Ackmeds and Bobby Bongo Bongo started coming in. All I’m trying to say is that if we let these things go, then we’re perpetuating those views.

Todd: He just encourages and prods and pokes and seems to love to see this woman squirm and be offended. Of course I hate people like that and it’s nasty. Played by David Bradley, I’m sure you know the face if you don’t know the name. Felch, right? The guy there. But he’s been in a million things. I mean, he’s veteran of the British screen.

Oh, and these people. It didn’t catch this until afterwards. Their surname is the Milgrams, and they are on Stanford Street. Did you catch that?

Craig: Well, I mean, I read about it, but I don’t really know what all that means. I, I, I know that it has to do with, like, studies on obedience and authority and stuff like that, which this movie becomes, and I think that’s Again, very clever, but I don’t really know much about what those things were.

Todd: You probably were now. I might be jogging your memory a little bit, but it feels like none of us could get through high school or college without talking about the Stanford prison experiment that was conducted by Professor Stanley Milgram, I believe, who set up this experiment in the basement of one of the dormitories at the school.

And had volunteers play prisoners and volunteers play wardens and, and, uh, guards at this fake prison. Of course, they all knew it was fake, right? But, uh, very quickly, it sort of descended into chaos as The guys who were playing the, the wardens and stuff started using their power in pretty cruel ways against these, you know, kids who were playing the prisoners.

And that study’s been cited for decades as a example of how humans, when given power and given control, just seem to maybe have this odd, natural inclination towards using it to make other people suffer. Now, interestingly enough, In the years since then, more has come out about that study, and it’s a lot, it’s a lot more complicated than it was originally presented to me, especially as a kid, and it sounds like the methods, and it sounds like there was actually, Milgram himself interjected himself and gave instructions and commands to people to actually do certain things, and maybe muddy the results a little bit, or at least the grand conclusion of it, so I’m not really willing to go as far, I’m a pretty optimistic person, you know, I would like to think that we’re not always gonna just descend into a lord of The fly situation by default when we’re faced with some difficulty, but we do have some tendencies that we’ve seen, you know, to get us there.

So obviously, you know, naming this family, the Milgrams, they’re on Stanford street, yada, yada, yada. He’s making a direct reference to that as well. And like you said, that is a very definite theme in here. It’s like this family is patriarchy all the way down. And it seems like the kid Nick hates that and is bucking that trend.

He’s like the young, more progressive person marrying this. Who’s got this girlfriend anyway, they weren’t engaged, were they? I can’t remember. I don’t remember. And it, and it pisses his family off and there’s Brexit stuff in here. There’s, there’s a lot of setup for some serious social commentary.

Craig: Right.

There’s like political, like they’re on opposite sides of the political spectrum. And that’s one thing, you know, that’s fine, whatever. But these people. Like you said, especially the grandfather, but the apple clearly doesn’t fall far from the tree because the dad, I feel like is at least a little bit more diplomatic at first, but the pregnant sister,

Todd: Oh God, she’s insufferable.

Clip: Six letters. That’s not a real word. It really is. Indian words. Don’t count. It’s English. Shall I get the dictionary again? Don’t be silly. It’s just a bit of fun.

Craig: She is disgusting! Like, and, she’s People don’t like when we talk politics, so I’m not going to, but I’m gonna talk about the movie, so I’m just gonna say, she’s the character, this character, is stupid, and she’s clearly threatened by Someone who is more intelligent than her the movie establishes this.

I’m not generalizing. Right. It’s true But she’s just ugly like just ugly ugly Blatantly openly racist. I actually found that one of the most difficult things to believe because first of all, I If I were, what’s the main guy’s name? Nick. If I were Nick, I don’t care how much Angie encouraged me to make amends with my family, which I understand.

I have personal experience with this kind of thing. Right. I just, I just would not like, I would just say to her, you don’t understand. My family is horrible. Yeah. And I wouldn’t have done it. And then, and then as soon as any of this, right. Ugly, ugly, blatantly racist shit started happening, I would have been out the door, I would have, like, sent FedEx to pick up my bags, like, you couldn’t have gotten me out of there fast enough.

Yeah. But they don’t. They stay.

Todd: This is a problem I had with the movie too, is that I felt like the characters were very caricatured and everything was very overplayed. Again, I think it’s in order to service this point, but whereas this kind of thing works for, like, a Twilight Zone episode or something where you only have 20 minutes to tell a story.

For this long hour and a half movie, I expected to see a little more depth. I expected to see a little more explanation. I saw a glimmer of it in the father later on. Right. There’s a moment where his father dies. And so he’s coming to terms with that, and he goes into this little soliloquy monologue, internal monologue, I guess, that he says out loud, revisiting these moments from his childhood where his father gave him these harsh truths, and you can see that he is both I’ve been changed by it and hurt by it, and it’s through his pain, you know, that I don’t know.

I guess you’ve you get this. You’re supposed to get the sense that he’s this asshole guy because he was taught by his father that that’s how you’re supposed to be if you want to be a man. And he’s been trying to live up to that because he’s been seeking the approval of his father that he’s never been getting, which is, I mean, you know, that’s life, that happens, but I just feel like in some of these situations, things wouldn’t have been so black and white.

Craig: I can’t find sympathy for that guy. Yeah. I just like, like, so your dad was a dick. I’m sorry. You know, I never went through anything like that. I had a lovely childhood. So I don’t know what that does to people. But, repeating the cycle, like, What are you doing? I don’t understand how you’re justifying that in your head.

Like, your dad was a dick to you and it ruined you, so you’re gonna do the same thing to your kids? Like, I don’t get it. And I don’t know Well, it goes to

Todd: certain extremes. Go ahead, sorry.

Craig: Yeah, it’s just, well, no, I was just gonna say, it’s so hard. Like, I really do like the main people. Nick, who looks like Ronan Farrow, I don’t know.

But he, like, he’s a young, you know, liberal and, and his beautiful girlfriend and, and they seem to be so open minded. I think we’re supposed to sympathize with them. I, I think that, They are supposed to be our surrogates in this. Right. I like them. And then you, you feel awful for the mother who is, you know, when they get there, she embraces them and she’s so glad and, and she’s, She’s trying to keep things together, and she’s trying to avoid conflict and break up conflict and do whatever she can, but the dad, the grandfather, and the sister are just so awful, and the sister has a boyfriend who also seems like he could potentially be kind of redeemable, but he just becomes a puppet for the dad and the sister.

He’s so empty. Well, I kind of felt bad for him in that, like, I felt like he, I mean, you feel a responsibility to your partner, you know, especially she’s vulnerable, she’s pregnant, it’s not, I mean, I guess it’s his fault for being with her, but it’s not his fault that she’s awful and she kind of manipulates him, and then, I’ve never been in this situation because I’ve never had a girlfriend or a wife, but I would assume you want to have a good relationship with your girlfriend.

Wife’s dad, you know, like if your wife’s dad asks you to help him change all the batteries in the fire alarms over Christmas, like my dad does with my brother in law, like you do it because you know what I’m saying? It’s like, I, he seems like a nice guy and I feel kind of bad for him, but ultimately he becomes their puppet and he’s kind of bad too.

So it’s hard to feel. I don’t know. It’s just hard to find sympathy overall. And we really need to get to, okay, so they have this big blow up over dinner. There’s a lot of racist talk, a lot of finger pointing. It’s, it’s horrible. And Nick and Angie don’t leave immediately. She convinces him for some reason to spend the night, even though they have to sleep in separate rooms.

And again, this doesn’t make any sense to me. Why spend the night when they’re, I guess just to avoid conflict, but their plan is they’re going to get up super early in the morning before anybody else is up and they’re going to sneak out and leave. And that’s what they do. They get up super early. They tiptoe around and they go downstairs, but they find that the door is blocked with this black material that I think at some point they think is metal, but immediately to me, it looks weird.

It looks to me, it looks corded like,

Todd: yeah. Like,

Craig: corrugated. It’s grooved. Yeah. Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Like, highly corrugated metal. Not like, you know, with wide corrugations. Very narrow.

Craig: And it’s black, and it’s covering every entry, including the windows, and eventually the whole family gets up, and they can’t figure out a way out, and then the TV starts talking to them.

And then that happens for the next hour.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah. The TV is black, but it’s got these, actually it looks like the old VHS, you know, you remember, your dad was a big camcorder guy, you remember when you put the titles in your camcorder, it had that particular pixelated font, it’s totally that, which, I thought that was kind of cute, but it just says, stay in your home and await further instructions, hence the title of the movie, they have really no choice, Now instructions start appearing on the, on the screen at first.

They’re like, okay, well, let’s at least have a nice Christmas dinner. And so they prepare this great spread. And of course, there’s more arguing and more racist talk.

Craig: Oh, and I know it’s all like,

Clip: oh, we need to wait for more instructions. But in the meantime, we are going to celebrate this special day. As you would any other year.

If we don’t uphold our values and have a proper British Christmas, The term is the wordy one.

Craig: Right before that, he had stopped the son in law, Scott, and, oh god, this was, like, his son, his own son walks right past him. And then right behind his son is the son in law, and he stops the son in law. And he says, can I count on you, Scott?

I need to know that you’ll back me. We need to protect the herd, even from themselves. Yeah, it’s very political. Yeah. There was grandpa earlier, like talking about how before all these foreigners coming in this country used to be great. Before all the, uh, boy,

Todd: I mean, we can, we can empathize with this right now, but, uh, you know, again, Brexit in particular, this being a British movie in this 2018 movie, clear parallels to that too.

I thought it was a little heavy.

Craig: It is for sure.

Todd: Look, I know that this stuff goes down all the time, but. My god, it’s like everything that comes out of these guys mouths is something offensive or talking or complaining about the foreigners

Craig: Yeah, and and to be very fair. I don’t encounter people like that in my everyday life Even people who I have fundamental disagreements with I do not encounter ugly people like that most of the people that I encounter who have different values than me are kind polite Decent people we just have differences of opinions and I think that there are significant differences opinions But I I don’t come across in my day to day life ugly people like this

Todd: Exactly and look ugliness does happen and I’ve been in the presence of People suddenly bursting into arguments that just were not appropriate for the moment and just seemed to come from some deep passion like they just got to get this stuff out every 10 minutes or so.

But like, I just find it hard to believe that a family, especially that is now in this particular situation, is going to go so out of their way to continue to piss each other off in these brief moments. Blatant ways, you know,

Craig: that’s what I’m saying. No wonder this kid didn’t come home, right? He had the right idea.

He should have just stayed away. I Think that’s kind of the ultimate lesson of like He should have stayed away. Things would have been, even if, oh God, I don’t even care about spoilers. If you’re listening to this, you don’t care about spoilers. Even if, as the movie suggests in the end, this problem is widespread and potentially worldwide, at least they could have just been trapped in their own apartment with just the two of them and not with all these assholes.

Todd: They might’ve even just been fine, you know, as we go through this, I’m hoping that You and me talking, I’m gonna discover the point the movie was trying to make, because I think it gets really muddied, and I’m not even sure what the moral result, the moral tale is supposed to be.

Craig: I think it, the message is supposed to be that, ultimately

Todd: Don’t submit to authority?

Craig: No, that they do. That we’re easy to manipulate and we’re easy to, gosh, I don’t know what the word is. I’m trying to come up with a fancy word, but I can’t submit to, uh, yes, yeah, yes, yes. We’re, we’re quick to submit to authority. And I don’t think that that’s untrue. No, I don’t know if I believe it to the extent because the dad just has an epiphany that these messages are coming from the government.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And the government knows what it’s doing. So, we have to, you know, whatever they say, we have to do. And so, you know, they sit down to this beautiful dinner that the mother has been slaving over all day. And then, before they can even carve the bird, you know, they have these terrible fights, racist shit getting thrown around.

And in the midst of this, somebody happens to glance at the TV, and the TV says, All of your food is contaminated. Eat nothing. And they do like, they throw everything away and what’s his name? The smart kid, the one that we like objects because not only are they throwing away everything on the table, they’re throwing away everything like canned goods, like packaged goods.

They’re throwing away everything. And the guy’s like, the kid’s like, We don’t know how long we’re going to be here, right? What are we going to do? And the brother in law is like, we have running water. It didn’t say anything about water. You can survive without food for weeks. There were also so many times, and, and there were so many times in this movie where I also didn’t understand is Nick, Nick is the name of the, the.

Kid, we like there were so many times when I didn’t understand his decision making, because if I were in that situation, I would have said, fine, throw all the food in my room. You don’t eat it. Don’t you’re right. It’s probably bad. Don’t eat it. Throw it all in my room. And then there’s another part. I feel like coming up pretty soon where they get a message that says.

One among you is contaminated. Well, first of all, they all have to scrub themselves with bleach, which they act like is no big deal. I would think that that would not be pleasant. I know, I was thinking about that myself. I would think it would burn. If you

Todd: rinse it off fast enough, it’s not gonna be too bad.

But you’re right, if you let that sit on you, and they’re all taking their sweet time with it, for sure.

Craig: That’s a big, long thing. We get to watch Grandpa scrub his balls for like, a minute. A minute.

Todd: Well, before the bit you’re going to talk about, there’s another part that I really want to talk about. And that’s when Down the Chimney, which was an opening that I guess they all forgot existed.

That’s right. Drops a plastic baggie with a syringe for each of them. And it tells them that they need to take these vaccine. It’s already been established that Angie works at the hospital. Did she ever say what she was? Was she a doctor? Was she a nurse?

Craig: I think she’s a nurse, but I’m not sure because they said she works at the hospital and, but so does the son in law, but the son in law doesn’t really, he doesn’t really seem to have any medical knowledge at all.

So maybe, I don’t know, maybe he’s like a clerk or something or something. I don’t know, but he works at the hospital.

Todd: Yeah, well, of course she’s immediately suspicious. She’s like, first of all, these syringes look used. I mean, they’re not properly capped. They’re not sterile. So just that alone, you know, is not good.

And Tony’s like, nope, we’re going to do it because this is what we’re instructed to do and it’s going to save our lives. And this whole argument, I really liked this bit because Again, I’m thinking COVID, I’m thinking people with general distrust vaccines these days, and the medical establishment in general, and even when authority is telling you you need to do this, they’re not quite so sure, and we’ve also had reason lately to believe that maybe things are not being told to us in our best interest, and so like, this is a dynamic I could get behind and I could understand, I was really interested to see how this was going to play out, especially with this father, you know, this is a dynamic I could get behind and I could understand, I was really interested to see how this was going to play out, especially with this father, Was just dead set on following everything that the TV, which he thinks is the government, is telling them to do.

His

Craig: government. I think that’s what it comes down to. I mean, even with, you know, we say vaccine distrust, some people might say, you know, like maybe we’re foolish. So being so trusting, you know, I, I think that it just, this is, he believes this is his distrust. telling him to do this. Right, right. So he trusts, he trusts it.

Todd: Yeah, he just grabs it and he jabs it right in. He’s like, I don’t care, and he jabs it right in there. But then the next scene shows that they sterilize the rest of them. And also, kind of a point, it looks like they boiled them, right? To sterilize them?

Craig: Yeah,

Todd: yeah. You probably shouldn’t do that because that would probably change the medication inside.

Craig: Yeah, I have no idea what those, you know, like, I have no idea. Ultimately, like, that part is kind of silly. It is really dumb. Who, who put that? Like, Who bagged up those syringes and dropped them down the chimney? Good point. Because when we find out, Who’s behind this?

Todd: It’s all very strange. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know if we’re meant to look at this too closely, but, uh, yeah, I agree with you.

Craig: I was just going to say all of the vaccines that I’ve had over the last 10 years have been cold. Like, like they have to keep them chilled. Yeah. So yeah, it’s, it’s dumb, whatever. And there’s a whole thing where, you know, he, he basically, he doesn’t have to strong arm most of his family because again, Patriarchy he says to do it.

So they do it. I was a little bit surprised that Nick and Anji did it. I guess you know, what choice do you have? But

Todd: I don’t know they did have a choice I mean they were standing so strong against it the whole time and I thought okay Well, these two are not gonna take it.

Craig: Well, and this is another one of those times where god I maybe it’s me maybe if maybe other viewers will feel differently, but I’m putting myself in Nick’s shoes and when he They’re like there’s only two left and you know, it’s him and Anji and he picks up the syringes I would have thrown that shit on the floor and stomped on it.

Like what are you gonna do now? Like yeah Yeah, I’m not taking it. Like what are you gonna do? Like, you can’t throw

Todd: me out, but, but they do it. Well, not only that, but he turns to her and he says, We have no choice. I’m like, what, what are you talking about? You’ve been sitting here all along arguing your choice, and nothing has changed except that everybody else has taken them.

You still have the same choice you had from the beginning. And then why does she take it too? I just did not get that at all. I

Craig: also hoped, like, I felt like in a better movie, They would have faked it. Like, you know, like I, I thought when she like poked it in his arm, I thought maybe she could have like poked it off to the side and just squirted it out.

Like, Oh, we did it.

Todd: It doesn’t look like anybody was paying that close attention. Well, where I thought this was going was the two of them weren’t going to take it, and then something was going to happen to somebody, you know? Either to one of them or somebody else, and then that would throw a question onto whether it was a good idea to take it or not, you know?

Craig: Well, something DOES happen to one of them! Something

Todd: DOES happen, yeah. Grandpa suddenly starts gets up and starts puking out blood, I guess.

Craig: Well, I don’t know what it’s supposed to be. It’s black. It’s like tar. I don’t know.

Todd: Yeah, I don’t know.

Craig: And what is that about? Like, again, I think that this is, it’s all just about control.

Like, how, whatever is behind These messages, how far can it push them and it just keeps pushing them a little bit farther and so in this moment, it tells them all to take these injections and they all do. And then one of them dies a violent and mysterious death. The dad says, Oh, well, he was old. These things happen and not on.

She’s like, are you kidding me? Like, are you going to try to

Todd: pretend this

Craig: is a coincidence? So they know, you know, like. I, I, the dad doesn’t, the dad just continues to trust and because of that he just continues to keep doing whatever it says, which leads to the next message is like, one of you is contaminated or one of you is infected, isolate them.

And so immediately they’re like, Oh, it’s, it’s Angie, because she coughed once at dinner. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not because she coughed once at dinner. It’s because she has brown skin. Like it’s, it’s so. Like you said before, it’s a little heavy handed. It’s a little in your face. Thank God. I’m sure there are people like this exist, but I, I don’t know them.

And thank God, because these people are just so like, it just so blatantly, obviously, Disgustingly racist and and this is the part that you said that I was getting to and you were right when they’re like we have To isolate her. It’s obviously her and Nick’s like no. No, I won’t let you and she’s like, no, it’s okay.

We can’t fight this Wasn’t it wasn’t it your immediate thought like if you’re him, don’t you just say fine?

Todd: I’ll go with her. Exactly. That was my exact thought, and I thought he was gonna do that. So that was irritating. The other irritating thing was they decided that they, for reasons I don’t understand, were gonna put her in the same room as the corpse.

I’m like, you have five rooms upstairs here. Put the corpse in one room. She can go in the other room, with or without Nick. Why is this happening? I didn’t get that at all. I don’t know. I don’t know. So I know, but really, this was the point where I started to detach from the movie because I didn’t get, it’s just started to feel too, too fake.

Like, I just didn’t, I couldn’t believe these characters would actually make these choices. I couldn’t believe Nick, who is going to secret her out in the middle of the night, and they were both going to leave this place was just going to be okay with leaving her in a room by herself with the guy’s corpse.

It just didn’t make any sense.

Craig: Yeah. And, and, and, In breezing over the plot, we’ve left out things that aren’t particularly consequential, but there’s been a lot of violence. Like they hit each other all

Todd: the time. Men

Craig: in this family are constantly fighting each other. Like, yeah, they’re Nick. At some point fights both Scott and his dad like they’re physically fighting and to stop them the mom starts singing a Christmas carol Oh, yeah, and as ugly as this is I was like, I almost can buy this Like family like families coming to fisticuffs and the mother doing anything she can to break them up.

Todd: Uh,

Craig: I think it’s about that time too that I, I think Angie’s just talking to, to Nick through

Todd: the door

Craig: and she says, I think the TVs are watching us. I think that the messages that they’re sending are reacting to the things that we do. So in other words, I think what she’s saying, and I think that what we’re meant to believe is that it’s, it’s playing on their conflicts.

And, and pushing that. She, she tells him to turn

Todd: off the TV. In a way, it’s, I mean, Speak No Evil was a better movie than this, but it’s similar to that. At least it seems to be at this point. That the, the television, the messages it’s telling them, it’s trying to push them to see how far will they go, how far will they obey.

That was obviously a better movie and a very different situation. But yeah, that was, that came immediately to my mind. He goes downstairs, he sneaks downstairs and runs into his sister again. And then he unplugs the TV. She catches him doing it and she gets angry. And then they all kind of come in there and there’s a fight.

And then Kate tells him that Scott needs to like beat him up or hit him. I mean, she’s like, be a man.

Craig: Oh my God, it was so gross. Like she is such a disgusting character. Like it’s so like, it’s hard. Like I’m having these terrible feelings about a pregnant woman. I’m like, that is awful. She is pregnant.

Todd: She’s just going through terrible. It’s just a hormones, Greg. It’s that’s

Craig: all it is. She’s egging on her. Well, the dad plugs the TV back in and it flashes red and it’s like, warning, interrupting emergency signal puts lives at risk. And then, Nick and Scott, the son in law, start fighting, and yeah, she’s egging them on.

She’s like, get him Scott, get him, get him! Like, what is wrong with you? That is your brother!

Todd: Follows them up the stairs?

Craig: Yeah. She follows, she’s right there. Like, They’re fighting. She’s not more than two feet away from them and they’re up on the landing. And I don’t even remember who pushes who, but it’s accidental.

I think it’s unclear. So close. Yeah. Because she’s so close to them, they’re fighting and they move and she gets knocked over the banister. And falls on her back. This movie is dark.

Todd: Yeah, it really is.

Craig: You don’t see that very often. I mean, she’s, she’s literally due in two weeks. She, she is ready to give birth.

And she falls over the banister. Now, she lands on her back. And, she’s not dead. Dead.

Todd: Breaks a leg. Yeah, her

Craig: leg is terribly broken, like the bones are coming out. They try to make her comfortable and, and do what they can. She eventually passes out from the pain and, God, things are kind of pandemonium.

During, during that fight, Scott happened to look over at the TV and just for a brief second the TV flashed, I see you? Yeah.

Todd: Why?

Craig: I, I don’t know why.

Todd: Why would it reveal that? Yeah, I’m not quite sure.

Craig: But this, at this point, everything is crazy and Kate is hurt and they don’t know what’s gonna happen. The dad just checks out.

He’s like, I’m gonna go to work. I’m gonna go to my study. And he just goes and hangs out in there for the next 20 minutes. I don’t know what’s, I don’t know what’s going on there.

Todd: By this point, has Josh run over to the The opening, because they were at there was an opening in the doorway.

Craig: There’s a slot that

Todd: Vaginal slot, yeah, that they have to push the

Craig: Syringes.

Clinical

Todd: materials back through. And, uh, he runs over there to try to pry it open and then putting his fingers in there, the TV also flashes like, oh no, contamination of the portal or Opening or whatever and it just bites his fingers off

Craig: and in those moments when you see that opening and I would say that before The reveal near the end the this is the only time that it’s suggested, but I do feel like it’s suggested enough When that slot like opens and the sides of it are kind of moving it moves Organically,

Todd: yeah,

Craig: it doesn’t move That gives you some indication that there’s something, something weird going on.

I mean, obviously there’s something weird going on, but it’s not just like these are metal doors that have been bolted to the front of their house.

Todd: Yeah. Well, at this point, I think Nick gets smart. He sticks his phone to a selfie stick and Pokes open a second floor bathroom drain. I don’t know. I don’t know exactly how this works if the pipes go directly out of the house or whatever, but anyway, it’s some way that he can penetrate through the wall of the house.

So I guess the house isn’t totally encased, even though the impression is given because he’s up at the roof at one point. He tries to. Pry away the roof and going

Craig: through walls.

Todd: Yeah, it’s so weird. Yeah But anyway, he pokes that through the wall and he’s able to get a video of what’s outside and you can see there’s this sort Of looks like a bunch of he calls them snakes.

I say cords. Uh huh coming down thin skittering

Craig: kind of like kind of like almost It’s a definite turning

Todd: point in the movie for us because now we have an idea of what, what’s actually happening. I mean, we don’t know why, but you know, at least, you know, it’s not, for example, some weird experiment that people are doing to them.

It’s clearly the, some kind of entity that has encased the house. And so, uh, the, the TV goes crazy when this happens and they, uh, Again, obeying the TV, run upstairs and grab him and say, what did you do? And this brings on the part that I also just couldn’t really get behind either.

Craig: I think that the only way that we can justify this is that Kate falling and being What comes to turn out to be mortally injured because she dies.

I think we’re to believe that he was at the verge of breaking maybe his whole adult life and that’s what did it. And he just broke The father. The father. So when the TV tells them that there’s A spy among them and they need to extricate information. Like he’s more than willing to tie up his only son and torture him.

Right. For what information?

Todd: Like a terrorist that he himself, well, yeah. It’s weird. What does he think he’s going to get out of him? He cuts him in the face, he cuts him in the leg, he’s He lines up a bunch of tools like he’s been doing this for years. Like he’s one of those, like, uh, stereotypical German Nazi doctors, you know?

Right, right. Doing terrible experiments on people. It’s a little much, I thought, and I I don’t know. I mean, like you said, okay, he was a little crazy. Alright, I guess I’ll just go with that.

Craig: The only thing that stops him from torturing the kid is the mother screams from downstairs. And they run to see what’s going on with her and the daughter has died.

The pregnant daughter has died. And is this the point? That finally I was so glad. I don’t, like, the dad says something insensitive. I don’t remember it. At some point he says something like, There are always casualties in war. And the mom just slaps the shit out of him. And she’s just done. She’s just Yeah, that was a long time coming.

I know! And I’m so, I’m so happy in that moment, like, finally! Put this asshole in his place. Oh god. Right. At some point Anji’s messing around with the black stuff that’s covering and she pulls, you know, it’s like it is cords. Like just a lot of cords side by side in a sheet. And she pulls one loose and we kind of get POV from the cord.

And I, I wondered if it was like a camera, like a, like a fiber optic camera or something.

Todd: I was thinking fiber optics. Yeah. So the idea may be that it’s just kind of ever watching in some way.

Craig: Yeah. I think that what we’re ultimately to, I don’t know, these could be machines. We’re, we’re never told. Yeah.

What they are they could be machines. We don’t know or they could be some kind of alien that’s actually like Seeing and and sentient

Todd: could be demons from another world. Who knows? Yeah, I

Craig: know at another point she Plugs in I think another tv like an old analog tv and it’s giving the same messages But she takes the back off of the tube Of the tv and she gasps and shrinks away from it, but we don’t see it at that point, but she tells Nick later.

She’s like in the,

Clip: in the, in the room. I found an old tv. I opened the back of it. There was something inside, something livid like a creature, like a heart beating. What if that same thing is in the TV out there? What if it’s in every tv?

Todd: Now I have a question about this. So, this television which was just being stored in the closet upstairs suddenly has this entity in there?

Are we to believe that all televisions have these like latent entities in there that are we’re just gonna wake up over time? Or It’s

Craig: loose, I don’t know.

Todd: So she’s like, well, there’s probably something in the television downstairs as well, but all hell kind of breaks loose because, because she did that, I think the entity starts pumping in black smoke into her room and ultimately all of the rooms upstairs through these pipe, they were like little pipes

Craig: that were

Todd: poking out through those cords.

And, uh, that gets everybody freaked out, and he manages to break her out of that room, and he’s trying to break his mom, who has, I guess, locked herself in the bathroom.

Craig: I don’t know what’s going on there.

Todd: Yeah, I don’t, I don’t remember when she ran up there, why she did that, but anyway, she’s kind of locked in the bathroom, and they’re trying to get the keys, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it has this glass door, but it’s one of those glass doors with the wires in it, too, which, uh, I guess you might have inside your house.

I don’t know. Anyway, he’s trying to break it open and he can’t do it in time and the mother just explodes

Craig: Against the glass like the yeah, I mean first it seems like the gas is like Burning her skin off like it’s acidic or something. Yeah, but then just She just explodes. Okay, alright. Ha ha

Todd: ha, whatever.

So now you, I was like, close the frickin door, guys. Like, they left the door to the other room open. I was like, why don’t you close it? The gas is just flowing in from above. So, they run down the stairs and they try to barricade themselves into the living room and they stuff You know, towels and things in the cracks.

Craig: And the gas is coming down the stairs, like it’s rolling down the stairs, but it stops at the bottom step. Like, like the gas itself is, is sentient. And then, on the TV, is something new. It’s a green butthole. It’s a butthole.

Todd: Some might call it rays of light from heaven, but you know, it depends on your perspective, I guess.

Craig: Okay. So there’s a green butthole on TV and I think Nick tries to unplug it, but it still doesn’t go off. And then the house starts shaking and then it starts spewing out. The TV starts. And I say spewing out, it’s just typing the same way it has before, sending these messages. I am reborn, I bring salvation, resurrection.

Yeah, it gets

Todd: Very religious here.

Craig: So now the dad thinks that it’s God like he looks up there like they have a crucifix above the TV and like It’s a little heavy handed like he’s looking at the TV and it’s saying these things and then we see him look up at the cross and then back down like

Todd: The camera actually pans up to the cross and pans back down to the TV.

I almost laughed out loud at that point Subtle this is not

Craig: and even though Kate is dead Her stomach starts moving, so apparently the baby’s alive, so the dad thinks it’s a miracle. Like Jesus or something? I’m not

Todd: I guess. I was so confused at this point. I was like, where’s this movie going? What’s it trying to do?

I thought we were about to be presented with something kind of profound that’s suddenly religious, or to me it just kind of descended into a whole bunch of shit that I cannot begin to unpack.

Craig: I know, and there’s, there’s been weird dream stuff that’s been going on, and that happens here again too, like, out of nowhere in the middle of all of this, Nick and Anji both wake up in a beautiful field, and for like 30 seconds, and then snap back into the house.

Yeah. I don’t know what that’s all about. And when they snap back into the house, the message on the TV is, make a sacrifice to save the unborn. And so the dad is trying to sacrifice Angie, but she says, no, I’m the only one who knows how to do a C section. So instead the dad kills Scott. Yeah. And then Angie and Nick fight the dad and Nick kills him

Todd: with the TV

Craig: with the TV But then the TV writes itself and all those weird tendrils I started calling them tendrils at this point all these weird tendrils come out.

They’re coming through the window They’re coming out of the TV and it’s like some all of a sudden some hellraiser shit. Like some of them have like Claws and hooks on the end? Like where did that come from? And this is very Hellraiser, like those tendrils like go into the dad’s head and lift him up so he’s like upright but kind of floating just above the ground and they reanimate him and talk to Nick and Anji threw him, and they’re like, Join with me.

Become me. Worship me. God. Worship me now or face your extinction.

But one of them, one of them just figures out, I guess, It can’t kill us. It needs us. It’s a parasite, and we’re the only ones left. Okay, sure, I don’t In a house? In the world? What? I think in the house, but I think that they underestimated it, because

Todd: Doesn’t mind killing them.

Craig: No, it does. That’s it. I mean, the tendrils end up cocooning both of them, and then the dad axes them to death.

And the dad, and I say the dad, but it’s really the thing animating as people. Sets up the TV in front of the pregnant belly, in the dead woman, and then the tendrils, like, cover her, and I guess, somehow, eat away all of her flesh, leaving only her bones and the baby.

Todd: I wasn’t sure how that worked, but okay. At this point, I wasn’t sure of anything.

Craig: And the TV that Alien Dad had set up right in front of the belly starts playing, like, these pretty pastel colors. And text comes on that says, Hello, Ruby. That’s the name they said they were going to name it if it was a girl.

Worship me. And then it pans out to show, like, I typed in the whole neighborhood is covered and then I had to go back because it kept panning out like the whole town is Covered like I don’t know. Maybe this is happening all over the world. Who knows? I don’t care.

Todd: I just didn’t get it, honestly. I mean, and I, you know, I was thinking, am I just being lazy?

Do I need to sit down and sort this out? But the more I thought about it, the more I thought, I’m not even sure if the writer knows what he’s trying to say. If they’re trying to say something here, it’s so buried under layers that I have no interest in peeling away, honestly. It just, okay, if the, if like you said, the whole message is that people are terrible and they’ll do terrible things to each other when somebody tells them to, and even the people who go against it eventually die anyway, I’m not sure what kind of message that, I mean, it’s a message of sorts, but it, It’s not like anything profound.

It’s more of an observation than anything else. You know, bad things happen to people and bad people do bad things to each other for very poor reasons And that’s life, I guess. What is this whole thing about worshiping this thing as a god? Is there some religious element to this? Are we pulling religion in as now the the thing that’s demanding obedience that we blindly follow?

Yeah,

Craig: I don’t know. I think that’s Yeah, I think it is. I, I think they are trying to say it. They, they just kind of But

Todd: then is this thing God? Is it being God is bad? You know, I mean, like

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, this is something that has been on a lot of people’s minds. You know, the, the election in America didn’t go the way that some of us wanted it to go.

And it went the way that the majority of us wanted it to go. And, and I think that a lot of people have been apprehensive and nervous about getting together with family, especially if there are differences of opinion. You know, I’m just to the point where I just can’t take it anymore. I can’t take the division and the ugliness.

Like I just want to go back to a time that existed in our lifetimes where we just agreed to disagree. And. And. And. We left it at the door.

Todd: Yeah. And not everything was so apocalyptic.

Craig: Exactly. Exactly. You know, things are going to be what they’re going to be. I’m, I’m just, I’m, I’m just exhausted being anxious and I’m exhausted on both sides with all of the, animosity and finger pointing.

I I’m just done with it. Like you think what you want to think and I’ll think what I want to think and let’s just have lunch, you know, like,

Todd: uh,

Craig: I’m, I’m just so, I’m just so tired of it. So the way that I, uh, I’m approaching it is just, you know, I know the people in my life that I love. And, and if we have differences of opinion, let’s just not talk about it.

Let’s just eat and get fat and tired and tell jokes and, and just not talk about it. I know, I know that ultimately things have to be talked about, but. Not right now. Things are pretty much established here for a little while. Let’s just open presents and, and have a good time. And, and I know, gosh, I’m reluctant to even say that.

And I’m getting a little misty saying it because I know that I come from a place of privilege where it’s easy for me to say that. And I know that it may not. Feel so safe and easy for a lot of people and if you’re in that position where you don’t feel safe with your family Then I agree with the message of this movie.

Don’t go if you don’t feel safe with your family Don’t

Todd: yeah

Craig: find family that you are safe with and go there.

Todd: That’s a really depressing takeaway But uh, it has some truth to it. I was just thinking in the midst of what you were saying maybe Their ugliness towards each other is what brought this down upon them You

Craig: Yeah.

Yeah, I think so,

Todd: you know, and, and of course the whole neighborhood, like the idea is that everybody at that, at that point was just sort of being ugly. And, and so that gave this entity license to the ability,

Craig: wouldn’t it be interesting to find out that this entity was objective and like, they really just were responding to whatever was going on in the house.

So, like, if everybody loved each other, maybe it would have told them, You win a trip to Tahiti!

Todd: Eat all the food. It’s perfectly

Craig: fine. Oh, boy. Who knows. I, you know, it’s not a bad movie. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I do think it’s heavy handed, and it’s Whatever that messaging is meant to be, but it’s not badly acted. It’s not badly shot. It doesn’t look bad. It’s, it’s intriguing. It’s, it’s a fairly unique concept.

I’ve never seen anything just like this before. Yeah, it was with it. It was fine. It’s bleak and save it for after the new year.

Todd: Yeah, don’t watch it now. Find

Craig: something more fun and lighthearted and uplifting to watch. Alan and I just watched Spirited. It’s a musical with Ryan Reynolds and Will Ferrell.

And we watched it last year too, but I had kind of forgotten about it. And it’s like almost two and a half hours long. It’s just a fun, jaunty musical with lots of singing and dancing and good family chemistry. Stuff and watch that instead

Todd: Not a black tendril or racist grandpa in sight, huh?

Craig: Not at all

Todd: All right, well, thank you guys so much for recommending this movie we love hearing from our patrons They are the ones who pointed us in the direction of this and a lot of the movies actually we’re going to do for this This holiday season, not just our patrons, our listeners out there as well.

You guys reach out to us on the website. You reach out to us sometimes by sending us voice messages and we actually have a recent voice message. Craig, would you like to listen to it? Yes. This is from our listener, Nikki.

Nicky: Hey guys. I recently found you as I was looking for a fresh horror podcast to listen to, and I have fallen in love with you both.

I’m binging all my favorite horror movies you’ve done on Spotify, and the more I listen, the more I enjoy. Todd, you have a beautiful voice, and before I even knew this podcast existed, I listened to a few of those erotic werewolf stories you’ve mentioned, which is too funny. Craig, I love your sweet laugh, and I share your love of Stephen King.

Keep doing what you’re doing, guys. You’re great at it. Love you. Love your show.

Todd: That was nice. Now that’s some of that positive encouragement we need to be hearing.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. It’s always nice to hear from people.

Todd: I think it’s funny that she brought up the, uh, the werewolf stuff. I don’t, did I talk about that on an episode?

I don’t, I, I don’t know.

Craig: I mean, we did the whole werewolf month thing.

Todd: Oh, I must have brought it up then.

Craig: I don’t know. It’s, it’s all, it’s, it’s. Try

Todd: to keep that secret.

Craig: It’s, it’s, it’s always nice to hear from people who have found us recently. Yeah. Like, I love hearing from people who have been with us for a long time.

That’s amazing. But it’s, it is nice. It’s to know that new people are coming around. It’s fun.

Todd: And Spotify, a lot of people come to us through Spotify. It’s kind of surprised me lately how big that has blown up as a podcasting platform. So it’s doing us a lot of favors. I’ll tell you that. Nice. Thank you, Spotify.

Please keep doing what you’re doing. And Nikki, thank you so much for sending us that lovely message and for those wonderful compliments. And any of you who would like to reach out and, uh, send us a message like Nikki did, you just need to go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com. At the very top, there’s a button that says talk to us, and you don’t need any special software or anything.

Just write the website, just use your mic attached to your computer or whatever, your phone, whatever you’re using. And that’ll go straight to us as soon as you click send. And we love hearing from you guys, no matter how you find us and how you hear about us. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          Whoo hoo! What a load of Christmas cheer we received with this delightful murderous elf tale! Brimming with holiday goodness from beginning to end, this Norwegian film from last year turned out to be the PERFECT beginning to our annual month of holiday horrror! Thanks for the recommendations, guys!

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptThere’s Something In The Barn (2023)Episode 418, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: We are kicking off the Christmas season, Craig.

Craig: It’s pretty exciting.

Todd: I love it. I just so look forward. I mean, Halloween is fun, but there’s something about these Christmas horror movies that are really fun to pick out, really fun to watch, and it’s almost like a challenge, like no matter what, Halloween’s scary, right?

So, you know, Halloween’s going to be about horror, but can this movie put me in the Christmas spirit? And be adequately scary, fun, whatever. That is the challenge. It’s kind of in my mind, as we turn on one of these movies that we’ve selected for holidays. Now, what, in our ninth year? Yeah, this is the ninth time that we have done Christmas horror movies.

Craig: There for a while, we were getting a little worried that we’d, do all the good ones and run out, but it seems like, I don’t know, in the last 10 years, they’ve been making a lot of them.

Todd: It’s so crazy, actually.

Craig: Some of them bad, obviously, and a lot of them cheap knockoffs of some of the better ones. But there are some good ones out there, and I’m excited about the stuff we’re doing this month.

Todd: You’re so right. Like 10, 15 years ago, like Christmas horror movies were kind of a rare commodity. And now there’s 10 every year. It seems like again, like you said, differing in quality, this one that we’re doing today. Well, you know, we put it out to our patrons. What would you guys, do you guys have suggestions for us?

We have a running list that we have going all the time. I think this one came up from several people this year and you seemed very keen on doing it. And it only came out last year as well. It’s a 2023 Norwegian horror comedy. called There’s Something in the Barn, directed by Magnus Martens, and, uh, man, I was getting serious Rare Export vibes from this one, which was one of the, one of the first movies we ever did, also a Norwegian horror film.

And several of the Christmas horror movies that we’ve done over the years have been Norwegian for some reason. I don’t know why that is. I really have no idea, but it’s been fun. Just the fact that this was a Norwegian movie was exciting me because I just love the quirky humor And I was looking forward to potentially really beautiful like scenery and stuff like that Maybe some cultural stuff and in those ways it didn’t disappoint me at all.

Craig: No. Not at all, it was Super cute. Yeah. I didn’t know anything about this except for any image you see of it kind of shows like an elf peeking out of the barn. So you know what the something in the barn is.

Todd: There’s something in the barn, probably an elf, maybe more, but definitely an elf.

Craig: I didn’t want to read too much about it because I thought if there are going to be any surprises, I don’t want them to be spoiled for me.

So I didn’t know much about it. When it comes right down to it, I really enjoyed it. I read a review after I read it that said it’s like Gremlins meets National Lampoon’s Christmas Vacation. Yes. And I had definitely thought about both of those movies while I was watching this. In fact, I think there are at least one or two direct homages.

At one point, somebody climbs up on a ladder and it gets pushed back and he falls flat back on his back and it shows an aerial shot of his face. It’s the exact same shot from Christmas Vacation, basically. And I feel like there were a couple of others. Definitely thought of Gremlins 2.

Todd: There was a point where I think the dad made a big show of plugging in the Christmas lights, even though it doesn’t have the same result.

Yes, yes! It’s like the same shot, it’s so cute. Yes,

Craig: yes, exactly. But then also, Krampus, just because they’re similar, not because it necessarily reminded me of it. Actually, if I have any critique of this, and I don’t have a lot, I thought it was Good. I would say it’s kind of like Krampus light. It’s going for the same things.

This is one of those movies that you and I love that don’t shy away from the violence and gore, but also have like the heartwarming element, you know, like, like, love your family because it’s Christmas. And I thought that it delivered on that. Uh, level two, maybe not to the, you know, Krampus is one of my now favorite Christmas movies of all time.

Yeah. This is not one of my favorites of all time, but I feel like that’s what it’s going for. Yeah. And it, it does a good job.

Todd: Well, Krampus surprises you at how dark it gets and that’s something that’s so charming about it. This movie, I, I was on edge thinking that it could get that dark and it never does.

That’s not a criticism, but you’re right. It was approaching that, you know, what’s going to happen here to this family? What’s going to happen to everybody here? Are they going to survive? You know, it seemed to be willing to kill people off at one point. I wasn’t sure

Craig: right

Todd: at one point I thought that was going to kind of avoid killing people or avoid overtly gore even with the first kill I thought this might be one of a few because The first kill happens to a guy in a mask and so it’s not even that good I mean, it’s gruesome, but, you know, they’re clearly avoiding, like, anything, like, really in your face disgusting when you see the body there.

I thought, okay, well, maybe this means the movie’s gonna try to keep it a little light. Eh, not really.

Craig: Oh, yeah, that wasn’t the first kill. There’s the cold open or whatever.

Todd: Oh, that’s right.

Craig: There’s this older Norwegian man, and he’s like bustling about the barn at night.

Todd: Cause there’s something in there.

Yeah.

Craig: He says he’s going to tear it down once and for all. And, and weird things happen. Like a baby carriage rolls out into the open and he uncovers it and there’s a huge bear trap in there. And it was so funny. Which he puts his hand in, what the, what the heck, you moron? I

Clip: don’t, I

Craig: guess he triggers it on purpose, I don’t know.

And then there’s, there’s like a red killer POV, so you know somebody’s in there. Something swings out of the rafters on fire and hits him and knocks him out the window.

Todd: Like a burning tire.

Craig: Yeah,

Todd: it’s so bizarre that you’re like, okay, what, where, where is this going? You know, what is this? So, uh, I really liked the cold open actually.

Craig: I did too. I mean, cause obviously there’s something in the barn, just so you know, and it might set you on fire, who knows, but then it becomes. Every holiday movie, where the family is driving to their new home, and we get the aerial shot of the car. You know, they’re in the car, and they’re talking about, you know, a fresh start.

Clip: Did you guys know the happiest country on earth? Yeah, doesn’t surprise me. It’s like Disneyland for Europe. Now we move to Disneyland. Hell luck. I just wish global warming would hurry up already. Don’t worry, in a couple of years when California is just a scorching desert, I’ll be back. Norway will be just like Santa Monica.

Craig: It’s very cliched in many ways. I don’t care about that. That’s fine. Yeah. horror movies are cliched all the time. It doesn’t bother me. It’s cliched in that way. It’s also cliched in that the mom is actually this. She’s been around for a couple of years, but she really hasn’t connected with the teenage daughter who’s like rebelling, and she’s so mad that she has to leave her friends and move to Norway.

Todd: It’s so typical. It’s so typical. But that’s what’s charming about it. I mean, I was in this all the way. Plus, it has this sense of humor. It’s got humor. Like you said, it’s following the National Lampoon kind of strategy of the family’s a little dysfunctional, but not really like dad’s a goofball kind of out to lunch in a way like he’s just overtly positive, but a nice guy just trying to, you know, keep everyone together and do the best and hijinks ensue, you know, I mean, it’s it just has so much of that flavor that I thought this is a movie I’ll probably come back to.

Oh, yeah, because it’s so full of Christmas warmth.

Craig: Oh, my God. God, I was, I was, I was 10 minutes into it and I texted Alan cause obviously he wasn’t watching with me. He was in the other room and I texted him. This movie is so f ing Christmassy. There’s so much like upbeat Christmas music in it. Jam packed.

Yeah.

Todd: It’s like every minute of this, there’s some Christmas tune playing in the background and it’s great and it’s widescreen. I mean, we’re talking, I don’t know what the aspect ratio is, but it’s super widescreen. And they made every bit of use of that. Like the, every frame is just filled with beautiful stuff.

Whether it’s a landscape, whether it’s inside the barn, whether it’s inside the house. These people are like my parents decorating at Christmas. They go to the nines. There are candles everywhere. Everything’s kind of has a glow to it. Mm hmm. It just felt so warm and cozy. Oh God. It was just so nice. I just loved it.

And what a great way to kick off this month. You know? Oh, I was so

Craig: glad we did

Todd: it first. It’s like

Craig: beautiful, snowy mountains with pine trees, you know, covered in snow. Like it’s just. It’s gorgeous. It’s, I know nothing about this director or cinematographer, so I have no information to share, but based on this beautiful work, loved it.

Yeah. And, and you’re right. It is funny. Okay. So Bill is the dad and he’s played by Martin Starr, who I think I’ve seen in a bunch of stuff, but he’s never like the leading guy. I do remember him from a movie called like, this is the end or something with a lot of really funny, famous. Yes. Bro comedians. He

Todd: was also in a movie we did, uh, he and Amrita Acharya.

Who plays the mom. Who plays the mom. Yeah. They were both in Dead Snow 2, Red vs. Dead, which is another Norwegian horror movie, the zombie one that we just loved. Yeah. They were both the two stars in that, so I’m sure they were plucked from that, but that was like God, what, 10 years before this, at least?

Craig: Martin Star, to me, just kind of has a, uh, kind of awkward, I don’t know, almost uncomfortable air about him, and, but it’s, it’s funny to watch. And he’s kind of like, he doesn’t know what to do. Like, he doesn’t know how to make this relationship between his wife and his kids work. He’s just trying to figure things out.

And it just so happened that he inherited this big, beautiful house. It’s literally in the middle of nowhere, that’s the only, I kind of get it, the teenage daughter, like it literally is in the middle of nowhere. He’s trying to give them a new start, and that’s admirable, and he is, like you said, like he’s ridiculously optimistic, like everything’s gonna be fine.

It is so Christmas Vacation because they pull up. Like they’re driving through the mountains in the snow and he stops the car and he’s like Is that a moose on a sign? Oh, so

Clip: cute. Have you ever seen a moose on a sign before? Come on Let’s take a photo with it. Yeah. Yeah Oh, this is gonna make the most amazing family christmas photo for this year.

Oh,

Craig: yeah. Great idea And so they all get out of the car to take A picture with the sign. And as they’re taking the selfie, an actual moose walks into frame behind them, and then they turn around and they notice, but the dad it’s so Clark Griswold, like he starts like walking up to it, but then the mom moose shows up and like chases them to the car.

It’s very Christmas vacation. Oh,

Todd: a hundred percent.

Craig: But, but that’s before they even get to the house and then they get to the house and it’s gorgeous and there’s a barn. And there’s something in the barn.

Todd: There’s a lot of shit in the barn, for one thing. The barn is as big as the house. Maybe even bigger than the house.

Craig: Well, barns are big. I mean, it is a barn.

Todd: Of course, they have to be big. We find out later that Bill and Carol, as you said, she’s the stepmoms. They’ve been together for a couple years, I guess they said. I don’t remember exactly how long. But Carol apparently is a life coach who has this system that she calls Happy Vision.

Where you just envision things happy. I was actually kind of sad that they didn’t do more with that. I thought we’d, I thought that would be kind of more of a running gag. It’s a bit of a running gag, but, but we don’t hear too much about her whole system, except that it just involves envisioning things happy.

So it’s, it’s simple and dumb. I don’t know how people feel about life coaching out there, but you know, I do kind of, I’m a little skeptical about the whole concept myself, so it’s ripe for parody and that’s her. And it turns out that Bill was one of her. Clients I guess or whatever and she completely turned his life around he

Craig: went to one of her seminars Yeah, they met at one of her seminars.

Todd: That’s so funny I just thought that itself was hilarious and I just cannot help but like this guy

Craig: Well, you know, look he lost his wife and he’s, uh, single guy with two kids now. Like I can totally see like going to an aspirational speaker or whatever. Falling in love. He’s trying Todd. Give

Todd: the guy a break.

Yeah, I get it. I get it. But he’s just so enthusiastic. And that’s the other thing. Like, you know, this may be me as an expat. I’ve been there before where you come to a place and you just want to love it so much because you have no choice. You know, it’s new and it’s fresh and everything’s exciting. This guy’s going over the top.

I love that. They all have hats that say norway on them.

Craig: Oh my gosh. Yes stocking caps

Todd: And just as you expect like you said, you know, they walk through town in the carol older sister is just bitching the whole time And lucas just seems kind of okay Like he’s exploring things and they wander into town the next morning and lucas wanders into this little park It’s called a museum later, but it looks just like a little setup with all these like garden gnomes and elves and these little huts and homes that are, you know, like a display.

Yeah, outdoor.

Craig: Yeah, almost like a little Christmas village or something like that.

Todd: Yeah, it’s a cute little thing, and he’s looking at that. Meanwhile, the rest of the family just wanders right into a coffee shop next door, and they see, they’re talking to each other. Kind of openly trying to make friends with the locals.

Craig: It’s that great moment. It’s the shady locals, you know, like the new, the new folks walk in and silence, like everybody stops what they’re doing and just stares at them. I love that. I do too.

Todd: And there’s a lot of You know, again, this is Norwegian, the director’s Norwegian, the, one of the, the main writer, at least, is Norwegian, and so, like, there’s a lot of poking fun at Norwegian culture in here as well.

I’m not an expert on Norway, I’ve never been there, I’d love to go sometimes. I’ve known a couple Norwegians, we’ve talked about Scandinavian culture in general, and just how people aren’t as overtly friendly. Initially, as Americans, they can come off as kind of cold, just because they’re rather reserved, and they don’t, you know, just smile at you the minute you walk in, like, you kind of have to earn it, in a way, you know, like, Why would I smile at you?

I don’t know you. But, once I do know you, you know, we can become really close and really good friends. So, I just feel like there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of jokes about Norwegian culture kind of poking through in here. Yeah, the locals, it’s so funny because these locals, we know that there’s something in the barn.

Craig: Right.

Todd: And we know that as soon as they say where they are staying, they’re, one of the, one of the guys comes up to him. I think his name is Raymond, right? This bearded guy?

Craig: Yeah, I think so.

Todd: We don’t hear it till later, but he comes up to them. Are

Clip: you the family that’s taking over the Newtown farm? Yeah, that’s us.

Eric was my uncle. I inherited the farm after he passed away.

Yeah, and now we’re moving here.

So these are the happiest people on earth.

Todd: Everybody knows that there’s some problem there. You know, it’s like the family that moved into the haunted house. Right. But nobody is willing to just say something to them about it. Like, they’re just like, kind of oblivious. But like, little things are dropped and it slowly dawns on them that, wait a minute, what’s going on here?

That the house has a reputation for being haunted.

Craig: Yeah, which I actually thought was kind of interesting because I just, I assumed That they knew the truth. I assumed that they knew there was an elf in there.

Todd: Oh, the town you mean?

Craig: Yeah, the town. Yeah, not the family. Yeah, me too. But as it turns out, they don’t.

All they know is that weird things have happened up there, and so they think it’s haunted. Before they went into town, they also met this cop who shows up several times. And I didn’t, I didn’t write down the actress’s name, but she’s really funny. She’s comic relief. And I loved, well, the first thing she speaks to them in Norwegian.

People typically speak to them in Norwegian first, but when they say they’re American, everybody can speak English, so they don’t have any. problems at all, which is my experience too. I visited the Netherlands for a weekend. So it’s not

Todd: like

Craig: I have extensive experience, but my experience was that everybody spoke English.

Clip: Oh, you’re Americans. Yeah. I just got to tell you, I love the Kardashians.

Craig: And, and she’s dropping jokes all over the place. It’s hilarious. There’s later, something happens. We’ll get there, but the cop comes. She’s like, yeah, it looks like something bad happened. And the mom’s like, well, what are you going to do?

She’s like, well, I’ll dust for fingerprints and then I’ll get there. Forensics.

Todd: Forensics out

Craig: here.

She cracked me up. I thought she was hilarious, but you were talking about the, the boy Lucas is just wandering around town and he ends up at that little Christmas village looking kind of place. And a guy comes up behind him. I didn’t figure that guy’s name out until way later either. It’s

Todd: a Tor, Tor. You really don’t hear his name until the last 15 minutes of the movie, I think.

Yeah.

Craig: He tells the kid about. Elves? Does the kid tell him he saw something in the barn because he did see something in the barn?

Todd: The kid sees his display and the guy walks up behind him and says, oh, that’s a barn elf.

Clip: Oh, okay. Are they good or bad? Uh, if you treat the barn elf nice, he will be good to you and help look after the farm.

But if you make him angry, he will do what?

Todd: But he has had, you’re right, like an experience in the barn where he’s been wandering in there and he’s seen things move or shift around or he’s seen the door creak open and close when he was up in his room looking out the window. So he’s kind of prepped to be interested at this point. He

Craig: saw glowing eyes from, yeah, from his window.

But this is where it gets even more gremlins y because there are rules. Three of them. The elf hates changes to the farm and that’s going to be a problem because they’re planning on turning that barn into a hotel, which we should talk about.

Clip: Secondly, he doesn’t like bright artificial light, you know, and he hates loud noises.

So don’t take him to a rave party to put it that way.

Craig: So then they all go home up to this point. And we’re like a half hour in at this point.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: This feels like a sweet family Christmas movie. I didn’t know at this point what I was getting into and I actually went back to IMDB to check. I thought, I thought this was rated R and I went back to check and I’m like, yes, it is rated R.

I’m like, what is happening? Is it just because they say f every once in a while? No, I mean, it earns its R rating later, but up to this point, it just seems like a sweet family Christmas movie.

Todd: Even with the next scene, it kind of feels that way too. Because, what I didn’t expect, is that, you know, it’s nighttime, and Lucas goes into the barn, intending to see this elf, and he sure enough does.

Like, this elf literally walks out. And he looks great, by the way. Yeah. All the elves. in this movie are fantastic. They’re all played by little people, I think. The main elf, the main barn elf, is played by an actor named Kiran Shah. This guy, ugh, is

Craig: He works all the time.

Todd: veteran of the movies, like, he was, um, Abu in Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Ended up doing the Star Wars movies with Ewok. Legend. You know, we did Gothic. He was the Fuseli monster in Gothic and just, he’s been working nonstop in every movie you’ve seen that, that needs a little person in it. So, uh, he’s pretty old actually.

Craig: But you were saying like, yes, this scene too, when he meets the elf, this feels like ET or something.

And yes, the score behind it feels like those old, like Amblin. Movies, or those old Touchstone movies where this is, this is Mac and me, this is E. T., this is, you know, like, Oh, look, they’re gonna have a nice little friendship. And they do, for a second. For a

Todd: little while, they do! I’m thinking, this isn’t gonna be horrible.

Except, the family has other Airbnb or something.

Craig: That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever, like It’s so

Todd: stupid.

Craig: Heh heh. That barn, it looks sturdier from the outside than it looks from the inside. Like, it is nothing. They, there’s nothing there. Like, it’s just a frame.

Todd: You’re gonna have to basically build a new building in here.

Yes,

Craig: absolutely. At one point, she shows somebody pictures on her phone of the mock up and they had, like, it’s like this luxurious, Condominium kind of thing like much nicer than their house. Yes. Anyway, it’s silly But obviously that’s gonna change some things. Yep barn elves not gonna like that. That’s rule number

Todd: one screwed up

Craig: They’re going to throw a party in the barn.

But first the dad goes to Clear snow, but it’s already done. And not only is it done, it’s just beautiful. Like it’s just perfectly, perfectly cleared.

Todd: He just thinks the town did it for him. I love this library comes in. He’s like, and now you see how social democracy works. Lucas, pay your taxes and they fix stuff for you.

Craig: Oh, the elf then visits Lucas’s room. Cause they’re buddies and there are a lot of fun Christmas songs. And then there’s a whole montage. To Holly Jolly Christmas, where tons of work is getting done. Like, they’re working, but then also the elf, I think, is doing a lot of work, too. But, then, that’s when dad, Clark Griswold’s And so now things are changing, and Lucas tries to tell them about the elf, but nobody will listen.

Todd: Yeah, he even posts the rules on the fridge. It’s so like Gremlins, it’s so cute. You know, obviously this is going badly. So Dad has put Christmas lights up everywhere, Clark Griswold fashion, like you said, and the next morning they get destroyed. Lucas is telling them about the barn elf.

Craig: I like that the cop, because they called the cop, and the cop was like, It could have been the moose coming back for revenge.

Todd: And she cackles as she takes off again in her little snowmobile. It’s so funny. At one point, dad and mom are inside the barn talking and, uh, there’s, I think that’s when they’re setting up for the party and he turns to her and goes, you’re in Norway now, nothing bad ever happens here. And shortly thereafter, he gets whacked by a barrel.

Craig: Yeah. The elf rolls a barrel onto their heads. And Lucas is like, how could you do that? I thought we were friends. They’re not

Todd: then the party

Craig: and then they, they have their party. Yeah. He’s been trying to learn. Norwegian, like with Duolingo or something. Every time he tries, he’s totally off it. Like, he tries to give a toast, but what he says is, My wife and I have made a concoction with my nuts.

Todd: It’s such an old gag, but it just, it works really well.

Craig: It’s, it’s Clark Griswold. It is. So obvious, but the party’s super boring and like super awkward. Like nobody’s talking to each other until they all start drinking and then they all get wasted and the party, they have a great party.

Todd: Carol turns to Bill and says, Norwegians are so friendly.

They just needed alcohol. Lots of it. Who knew? Who knew? So, a woman mentions the Haunted Farm rumors to Carol, so that kind of like clues her in about that. And then Nora, who is still not happy with being here, kind of makes a little friend who cajoles her into drinking some alcohol, and she’s drinking this like, Moonshine?

Moonshine, yeah. That that guy made that says like 96 percent on it, and she ends up puking. On the elf because the elf is underneath the floorboards just like bristling and angry staring up at this party happening And then she pukes on his face

Craig: Yeah, and I guess lucas is worried like he keeps trying to turn the music down and he eventually he shuts the music off And he says party’s over and I don’t remember if everybody leaves at that point or not But the museum guy talks to him.

He’s like, hey, what’s wrong? And he’s like, it’s He’s gonna be mad and like the guy doesn’t believe him, but he can tell that the kid is really upset. So he’s like, well, look, all you have to do is on Christmas Eve put a bowl of porridge with like cinnamon and sugar on the top in the barn as a peace offering and everything will be fine with the elf.

And then they all go to bed for the night and the elf destroys the kitchen. I mean, I guess this guy. Like, even though he doesn’t believe, because he’s the curator, I guess, of that museum, he knows the lore. He doesn’t believe it, but he knows it, so that’s handy. Yeah,

Todd: all of that really surprised me, you know?

Like you said, I just thought everybody knew there was an elf there. It wasn’t like that town was hiding this big secret. And even this guy, I thought, well, he’s the one guy who, like, knows, you know, or at least believes. I mean, he’s got the museum for God’s sake, but no, he doesn’t either. He’s just like, no, these are just, uh, stories.

So, um, that surprised me that even he took a long time to come around to believing that there were elves there. This is where we kind of get our first bit of violence. You know, Bill comes downstairs, sees smashing plates and the kitchen trashed, uh, wanders around with a knife and finds the elf’s hat by the door to the basement.

And when he bends down to pick it up, the elf runs up behind him and kicks him down the basement staircase. And I thought, is Bill dead? No. No, he’s not dead. He’s not dead at all. No, he’s actually fine. Carol picks up a giant leg of lamb from their dinner, I guess, to use as a club, and the elf follows her.

Lucas comes in the room and turns on the lights, and suddenly he’s gone. The elf is gone. And the policewoman comes. And she blames a fox, which, which Bill is only too happy to believe. Like, he’s like, Oh, well, that’s a relief. Thank goodness. Oh, it’s a fox. Aren’t you happy to hear that?

Craig: And it was at that point that I was like, okay, that’s stupid.

Like something forcibly pushed him down the stairs. A fox doesn’t push you down the stairs and close and lock the door. Like foxes don’t do that. But I think that that scene was to establish that. This elf will hurt and or kill them. Like, let’s just make that very clear. The cop also, again, I can’t do her justice.

You re If you, if you haven’t seen this movie, folks, you should watch it. Yeah. You’ll find this cop very funny. She’s like, oh yeah, I guess the party got a little out of control. That can happen when you have a little too much to drink. And she just talks to them like they are Alcoholics. And like, she’s like, yeah, maybe lay off the booze a little bit.

You know, the kids as she’s walking out, she’s walking out. She’s like, don’t drive drunk.

Todd: I halfway expected a Minnesota accent coming out of her mouth. You know, she just has that look and that feel what other movies. You know, is there a character like this? I mean, there’s there’s several like this is a very stereotypical Fargo, maybe that’s the one she was really channeling there.

But anyway, lucas is doing as is instructed. He’s made the porridge He’s put it in the fridge He’s prepared it for for later in the evening when he’s going to bring it out and dad because he’s been Looking up this on the internet is so happy to make lutefisk which You get your Ludovic gag because everybody, if there’s anything anybody knows about Norway, it’s that Ludovic is awful, but they eat it up there.

And Carol freaks out, Bill eats the porridge. And

Craig: the kid’s like, God, it’s just funny as I’m remembering it. It strikes me as funny when the kid says, that was all the porridge we had. What? You

Todd: couldn’t make

Craig: more? What? Make some more. Like, did you use, like the last couple of days? Half a cup of rice? Like?

Todd: As concerned as he is that they follow the rules, ultimately, when he doesn’t or when he can’t, he just kind of is like, eh, about it, you know?

Yeah. It’s not like he storms in to try to stop the party, he puts up with it for a while before he shuts it down. And this thing with the porridge, he went through all this effort, he’s not going to stay up late if necessary just to do that to appease the elf.

Craig: The line suggests something. to me like, oh no, I can’t make more.

But that was, that just seemed ridiculous to me. Yeah, it’s silly. And so instead he gives the elf the lutefisk. Again, I get it. It’s a joke. It’s a gag. I get it. But kind of dumb. It is dumb. Give him a Twinkie or something.

Todd: Just give him a pile of cookies. He loves those cookies. He

Craig: loves those cookies.

Exactly. A

Todd: huge pile with a bow around it or something. But. Of course, the elf doesn’t like Ludafisk, and that’s the joke. He’s enraged. And so the elf turns evil, looks up at the sky, and his teeth are now pointy, and his eyes are black, and he grabs a hammer, and a storm’s outside. And that’s when we get our second kill, basically.

Mm hmm. It’s kind of clunky here. I think this setup is kind of clunky, because the Come on. Okay, so Bill enlisted Raymond to come and play Santa for his, like, teenage kids?

Craig: Well, not on purpose. He was gonna ask Raymond for some other favor, but I don’t remember what that other favor was. That was Raymond was I don’t think that was it.

Raymond was drunk, and Bill said, Can I ask you a favor? And Raymond said, You want me to play Santa on Christmas Eve? I’ll do it. I love playing Santa on Christmas Eve and I, I, I felt like Bill was like, uh,

Todd: Oh, I felt like Bill.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: I felt like Bill, he nailed it. What Bill was asking for. I, I don’t know. Well,

Craig: maybe you were right.

Maybe you’re right. I don’t know. But yes, I mean, it, Bill is expecting him. So yes, they have this arrangement, but he shows up and he sees the elf standing there, you know, by the barn with the hammer, but he thinks it’s the kid. I mean, he’s really drunk. So whatever. Yeah. But he follows the elf around the side of the barn.

The house, actually. Isn’t it the house? No, it’s the barn. It’s the barn.

Todd: Oh, okay.

Craig: They’re just standing there, facing each other, standing next to the barn, and the elf starts banging his hammer against the barn, which I don’t understand why the family wouldn’t have heard that, but whatever. And he bangs it like two or three times, and the guy’s like, what are you doing?

And I guess eventually he looks up, so the camera looks up too, and there’s a bunch of icicles up there, and It falls right through his head, doesn’t it?

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I thought it was, I don’t know, I mean, I like a good icicle kill, that’s fun. I thought that he was trying to make the snow fall off the roof. I was like, oh, he’s gonna bury him in the snow.

But, I was wrong.

Todd: And then Bill comes outside and sees Raymond and he’s hanging by the Christmas light. The elf has strung

Craig: him up. Yeah, strung him up outside the barn. So he’s like dangling from Christmas light.

Todd: And this is when pandemonium starts.

Craig: Yeah, exactly. Well, I’m glad that Bill runs inside and is like, we have to get out of here right now.

Like, it’s, it’s so rare that people do that.

Todd: Right.

Craig: But they try to leave. And of course the car won’t start because cars never start in horror movies. And the elf attacks in it. They Somehow get him in front of the car and the kid says turn on the lights and it they turn on the lights and that Like knocks it out.

Yeah, it falls over backwards. This is an unconscious.

Todd: They really don’t like bright lights

Craig: That I don’t know that rule kind of comes and goes It does.

Todd: They’re an awful lot of light, a lot of the movie. They’re in an awful lot of light, and they don’t care. But you shine a flashlight in their face and suddenly it’s like kryptonite.

Craig: It burns them. Yeah, right. I don’t know. But it knocks them out, but the kids run inside because the parents tell them to, and the parents walk over and stand over its body like dummies, and eventually its eyes open up and it screams, and it’s like, It’s projected to us because the parents cover their ears and they show it radiating across the land That this is like a super super loud scream and within seconds an army of elves arrives They just come they just come flooding out of the barn.

Todd: It’s so great.

Craig: I don’t really understand this

Todd: No, I don’t either. Oh, do they have underground tunnels?

Craig: They have underground tunnels. They have Like an elf village, not very far away. So, and it appears to be out in the open. Do those tunnels go to a mystical land? Like, I, I really don’t understand that. And also like.

Are these Woods Elves? And are Woods Elves and Barn Elves friends? I know, right? There’s a lot we don’t know. Yeah, when they showed the call, radiating like, you know, through the wilderness, I thought, oh, well, he’s calling all the other Barn Elves and the Barn Elves will get there somehow. But that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: This seems to be like a village of a huge village of like what roughly 20 or more

Todd: At least yeah, because at first it looked like a small group, but then they just keep coming at first I thought oh, it’s like it’s like, uh, maybe eight or nine six. Yeah, but then It becomes a home invasion movie where they retreat to their house and the elves are coming in like zombies, breaking through the windows, running, you know, in, and they just keep coming, and it’s like they seem to dispatch them, but more are still there.

I never really got a good handle on how many elves there actually were. I don’t know if it was just like, we were supposed to believe there were just dozens of them, or if they just kept getting up. You know, because it seems really hard to kill these things. You think they’re killing them, but they’re not.

Craig: Yeah, right. Like, it seems like Mom kills one with, like, the star from the top of the Christmas tree. Like, she throws it at its face or something. And then Nora, who it’s been established was a softball player back in the States, sees a bat and picks it up. And it’s, you know, that scene from Signs. And, like, it’s, like, Nora swings away and she just starts, she just starts like nailing them with her bat and the mom protects the kids.

Like, look, the mom, she really loves them and they’re going to see, and they’re, they’re going to bond through this.

Todd: Yeah. There’s definitely that vibe throughout.

Craig: The cop shows up. And it’s, they’re like, Oh my God, you have to help. Blah, blah. And she doesn’t believe them. She thinks they’re drunk again. And they’re like, where’s your gun?

And she’s like, I don’t have a gun. This isn’t America. We don’t just go around shooting people in the face.

Todd: This was a running gag that got a little old, I think. But I mean, I thought it was funny.

Craig: I thought it was hilarious.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I, I, I fully, fully believe that that’s how much of the world views us. Oh, yes.

And they’re not far from wrong. So Dude,

Todd: I was literally talking about this at brunch today with a German person. So yeah. That is how they view

Craig: us. Anyway, but she doesn’t believe them until they hear her snowmobile fire up outside and they go outside and one of the elves is just joyriding on the thing.

Like that’s why this is also, it’s so much like Gremlins because I don’t know. When it happens, like, the cop, like, runs out there and, like, tells the elf to get off the snowmobile, but it doesn’t, and then it runs her over, and, like, the snowmobile, like, spews blood all out the back, all over the family, like, just, right in their faces.

Todd: That was hilarious. It was also shocking. I did not expect the cop to go.

Craig: Uh, I kinda did.

Todd: You’re thinking gremlins, yeah, I guess so. But She was so charming.

Craig: She was. I liked her. It’s not like I wanted her to die. I just figured she was disposable, you know? She’s just comic relief. Because I thought they are not going to kill anybody in this family.

They’re just not. True. If they had, I would have been shocked, and I think I wouldn’t have been happy about it.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: There was a moment when I was scared for the stepmom. But we’re not there yet. Anyway, the elf cra crashes the uh, snowmobile into the barn and we see that gas is leaking out which, remember that for later.

But then the elf gets the gun off the snowmobile, shoots another elf, and then himself, I think more gun. Commentary there. That was so dark. Yeah, cuz he doesn’t know what he’s doing with it He’s not to get too dark, but he’s just like a kid with a gun like he doesn’t get it

Todd: Yeah

Craig: and then there seems to kind of be like an elder elf that is in charge of the Tribe and they’re speaking gibberish language But they’re clearly making a plan and and we kind of get the sense that our main elf like the barn elf isn’t Totally down with the plan.

But at this point, I don’t know All the elves get drunk, which again, it’s totally gremlins. Like it’s the scene in the bar where they’re all just being goofy and drinking and having a great time. But this was also the part where it bothered me because they’re in the house and all the lights are on now, to be fair, or, or were those candles, they were fairly damn, I guess.

Todd: Even they did not have candles that many candles in their house. Plus they crowd around a big, bright TV

Craig: and they’re playing loud music.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Maybe woods elves have different rules. Well it could

Todd: be. That could be. Maybe we just say that. The bright still hurts them though. So like

Craig: Maybe barn elves are barn elves because they’re like introverts and they just like to be by themselves and they’re so they’re just like grouchy old people and they don’t like noise and they don’t like change.

So they’re so so basically me.

Todd: You’re a barn elf.

Craig: And the woods elves are cool. They’re like partying, they’re having a good time. Yeah. That must be what it

Todd: is. I mean, they are kind of like isolated from the rest of the tribe, right? I mean, they’re off in somebody’s barn instead of in that little village.

Craig: Right. They’re just the grouchy old men of the elves. I get it. I get it. I feel that.

Todd: You

Craig: feel

Todd: for her. Yeah.

Craig: I do. I mean, they’re not bothering anybody. They’re helpful. I could have a, like, I would love to have a barn elf, like, we’ll just keep to ourselves.

Todd: That guy chopped up so much wood for this dude, and just for a couple cookies.

I could keep it down. I could keep a barn elf happy if that’s the result. Not this result, though. This is, this is shit. This is horrible. They’re, they’re all trashing the place downstairs.

Craig: Yeah. But while they’re downstairs trashing the place, the family is just up there. Hold up in the daughter’s bedroom, and I also thought like what are you doing?

Like you can tell they’re obviously preoccupied downstairs like get out of it out Now is the time. What are you waiting for?

Todd: Yeah, no, nobody’s coming. This is the moment the family comes together This is their big come to Jesus moment. Dad has his big apology speech, but

Craig: somebody says Well, we’ve had worse Christmases.

That was hilarious. Oh my

Todd: god, that was hilarious. And then they’re just describing like some Christmas where they all had to take shits in the bathroom and like one Christmas where they were walking around On the airplane,

Craig: it was even worse.

Todd: I’m like, that was worse than these people being murdered around you?

I don’t know about that. The

Craig: younger than 12 year old son walked in on his grandmother and her lover, Stefan, more than once.

Todd: That would be pretty traumatic, though. I mean, I have to admit.

Craig: Yeah. Anyway, but the elves are destroying the house and the main elf doesn’t like it. So Dad and Lucas go for help on the sled.

Finally. The mom and the daughter, yeah, the mom and the daughter stay behind because the mom got stabbed in the leg. She’s okay, apparently, but she can’t walk.

Todd: They jump out the window onto a conveniently placed pile of snow. That’s helpful.

Craig: I thought that was a funny joke, though, too, because It almost seemed like they expected the same thing I expected.

Oh, we’ll jump onto this pile of snow that will cushion our landing. No, it’s rock hard. Yeah,

Todd: they hit it and slide down. But, but this next bit is just total comedy. Like, they start skiing down the hill. So there’s like, it’s like one of these sleds, kind of a, I guess, like an adult sled or whatever, with a proper seat on it that the kids sitting on and the dad standing behind it.

And as they’re, as they’re, careening down the mountain on this sled. There are two elves behind them in a similar sled and he has a stack of saw blades, like circular saw blades that he is chucking an

Craig: endless stack of them, apparently, but

Todd: you know, it just creates this moment, this action scene.

Craig: Well, and it’s, I know I keep bringing it up.

I apologize if it’s annoying listener, but it, to me, it was the sled scene from national Lampoon.

Todd: Oh yeah. Right

Craig: with a, with a little bit more. You know, higher stakes.

Todd: Right. You’re right. You’re right.

Craig: Meanwhile, the mom and the sister are back at the house and having their

Todd: moment

Craig: and They’re like we’re gonna have to fight or something.

The mom’s like, well, they seem to be afraid of fire Do you have anything flammable in here? And the daughter’s like, well, I Might have some moonshine and the mom says we’re gonna talk about that later. But great get it. It’s perfect And so then they start making, this is, this is so funny. I mean, it’s, the movie jumped the shark a long time ago and again, I don’t care.

Todd: That’s funny. Um,

Craig: but they, they start making Molotov cocktails out of Christmas tree ornament,

Todd: moonshine and sparklers. Yep.

Craig: Yeah. Is that what those were? Were they sparklers? I couldn’t figure it out. I was like, okay, alright, I’ll buy Molotov cocktails and these Christmas ornaments, but where did they get wicks?

But okay, sparklers, alright, fine. And they start throwing them down. Well, I don’t know, I feel like the elves get in there at some point, but

Todd: Eventually they do. Yeah, what happens is they toss them down, they seem to scare the elves off, some of them explode, and you know, all that stuff, so then they’re really happy with themselves, so they just sit down again.

Like, like, okay, and have a heart to heart. What was your purpose here? You know, you’re throwing those Molotov cocktails down there, presumably to destroy the elves or distract them so you could get away, right? But, no, they just, like, okay, well we did that, and they sit down again. I mean, I’d be worried that the elves are gonna try to come up now.

You know, like they do and they do. So it’s kind of silly, but they got to have their moment, their mother and daughter moment, but they hear a noise in the chimney because in the daughter’s room is a fireplace that they haven’t really paid attention to. I guess it’s got doors on it. So, so yeah. So another action scene ensues where these elves try to burst through and they try to shut the door.

And then the mom yells to her daughter, go get help. And she’s like, okay, so she leaves her mom in this room that is about to be besieged by elves to just go, do what? Go after the other two? Like, I didn’t get that at all. It was kind of dumb. But, mom

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, again, it’s the mom, you know, she’s She’s making, she’s sacrificing, like, I mean, you get out of here.

I’ll hold them off. I’ll sacrifice myself for you. And, and the elves get in there, but we don’t see what happens. And then Nora’s in the woods and she’s surrounded by glowing eyes. And then it cuts away from her and we don’t know what happens. And the whole reason that the dad and the son left was because the son knows that the museum guy lives just down the road.

So the elves that were chasing them get hit by a semi and they make it to, uh, The guy’s house and they are like, yeah, it’s true. There’s barn elves and he still doesn’t believe, but he agrees to go with them and take them back home and they get there and immediately see the elves. And he’s like, Oh, they’re real.

And the dad’s like, uh, yeah, we told you. And he’s like,

Todd: what did you do to make them mad? And the kid’s like, we broke all the rules. He’s like, all of them? I’m thinking, yeah, he did. They broke every single rule. They didn’t even get the porridge to the poor little kid. The poor little guy. Oh my God.

Craig: Yeah. So they, they follow, they’re very obvious about it.

They follow the elves into the barn. It’s almost as though.

Todd: They’re being led. They’re not

Craig: scared of them anymore. It’s weird.

Todd: Or the elves don’t care anymore. It’s, or, yeah.

Craig: It’s hard to believe that the elves don’t notice, but whatever, who cares? They see two elves go down into this hatch in the barn that we’ve never seen before, and so they follow them down there into these tunnels that you mentioned before.

And they go through these tunnels and come out, back into the forest, seemingly, and there’s this weird, like, village of these little huts. I mean, they’re tiny, tiny. They almost look like Big eggs or pods or

Todd: something

Craig: But nora and the mom are tied up to a stake in the middle And so they go they run up and they start trying to untie them, but that leader elf shows up with the gun The museum guy tries to negotiate peace.

He’s been talking about this He makes the same joke about not shooting people in the face

Todd: And then he’s talking about the oslo accords. Actually. I thought what what he was saying was quite funny but god the It doesn’t play well now,

Craig: you know? It’s not well timed right now, but yeah, I mean, I understand, I get the concept.

I think they’re making a joke of how, Whatever. I get it. You get it. We all get it. It’s like, here’s, you know,

Todd: you dumb Americans, you think we should rush in and just like destroy everything. It’s kill or be killed. And then, you know, everybody dies. Us Norwegians, we believe in making peace and negotiating.

And so he’s going to do that. But of course, yeah, the gag is going to be that the negotiations don’t work or do they, right? So he starts his negotiations. And the elf shoots him. And the old elf

Craig: shoots him.

Todd: That’s it. Yeah, I wish I saw something.

Craig: I did too, and I thought it was a funny joke. I mean, that elf is kind of like the spike of gremlins, you know?

Yes. You’re not, you’re not going to negotiate with them. I thought it was funny, but I, I also don’t understand this because, again, I’ve only watched it once on my laptop, but I’m pretty sure I saw blood fly. And then here in about three minutes. He’s fine. Even, his arm’s even fine,

Todd: you know, it’s just like, come on.

Craig: Yeah. He was

Todd: shot in the shoulder. The

Craig: L’s, yeah. Yeah. I know, but, people act like that’s not a big deal, like, oh, I’m fine. No, you are

Todd: down. I really thought he was dead at this point, yeah.

Craig: But Lucas sees the, the barn elf and he, when they were friends, he like, made like a sign of peace, like he touches his chest and that means like we’re friends or peace or something, I don’t know.

So he makes that to the main elf. And so the main elf comes and helps cut mom and Nora free, but all of them now are surrounded in the barn. The barn elf argues with the gun elf, and the gun elf goes to shoot him, but the gun is empty.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: So I guess they run, and they run up into the loft.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: The, the, the women are like, yeah, we got this.

And so the, the guys jump out. The barn again,

Todd: and the girls blow up the barn because the daughter had been making these little paper airplanes because she was bored in her room pouting earlier. So she makes a paper airplane, lights it on fire and tosses it down. So, you know, it spins in a spiral circle that everybody watches and then hits the, the gasoline that’s on the ground, which, you know, she could have just dropped a piece of paper down there.

It would have been the same. I mean, it was just kind of a dramatic moment. It wouldn’t have looked as good though. Yeah, it wouldn’t have looked as good. It wouldn’t have been as dramatic.

Craig: I thought it was a great shot. And I also kind of liked, I liked the slow shot and it’s over some beautiful slow Christmas carol.

Like, um, I don’t remember which one it was, but you know, the, the, it goes to slow mode to follow this plane, this flaming paper airplane and some beautiful Christmas carols playing in the background

Todd: and

Craig: the elves are all watching it like in awe and wonder.

Todd: Um,

Craig: and then it hits. And we’ve also seen that there’s like tanks or bags of something that’s explosive.

I don’t know what that was, but we’ve seen it a bunch of times.

Todd: Blows up the bomb.

Craig: And so, yeah. It, yeah, it starts to explode. The girls jump out and get there jumping out of a building explosion, which is great. But now, the main elf is sad. Cause he lost his home. Cause he lost his home. And I love that.

Todd: One of the kids says, I think, can he live with us?

And mom says, honey, he can’t stay here. We just piss him off again.

Craig: I, I thought that was funny. I thought that it was going to return to. The cute like fun family thing like we’ll build him a new barn and we won’t break the rules And we’ll all live happy and the ending will be over a montage of family goofy family vacation shots with us in the barn elf and But she’s like my and I thought you know, it’s the it’s the chunk and sloth moment like oh you can live with us now But he’s like can he live with us?

Oh, no No, no, no. That ain’t happening. That’s out of the question. And the kid’s like, but where will he go? And the museum guy is like, I’ve got an idea. So they take him to live in the Elf Museum in town. Now, I don’t understand this either. Uh huh. I guess he just has to be really good at hiding? Cause he’s literally like, in the town square.

Yeah,

Todd: also it’s not a barn. There’s nothing barny about that. I mean there’s a tiny little barn. Well he could, he could help keep it up. I suppose. Yeah, but he’s a new kind of elf now. Now he’s a museum elf. He’s not a barn elf. That’s true.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t think he’s going to like it there.

Todd: He’s probably pissed off his fellow elves as well. So like, uh, I don’t, I don’t think screaming and getting it. I mean, he’s probably going to have to take what he can get is what I’m trying to say.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t think it turns out so great for him in the end, but they all stand and look at the Northern Lights and it’s beautiful.

And the dad says, when all said and done. This was a pretty good Christmas. And again, it’s almost that exact shot where the Griswolds are standing outdoors all together, looking up at the sky and all said and done. It was a pretty good Christmas. And then Darlene Love starts singing.

Todd: No little zinger or anything like that.

Craig: I liked it.

Todd: I liked it too. You know, I just, I went online and I saw the reviews are just kind of middling about this and I don’t understand that. I know. We’ve seen a lot of other, you know, Christmas movies that try to be this cute. And they fail. They’re just like, awkward, or a little uneven, or maybe a little too cliche.

I mean, this had it, this was cliche in many ways, but I don’t know, there was just, there was just enough about it that was interesting and different that I, that I really enjoyed it. Plus, you know, we said it a million times in the beginning, it’s just very heartwarming. It’s just Christmassy through in and throughout, and I enjoyed it a lot.

Craig: Yeah, it’s really fun. Like, it’s not a 10, you know, like, it’s not, We’ve, we’ve reviewed better Christmas movies, but I still think it’s good. I had a lot of fun watching it. It certainly wasn’t boring. It was very funny in places. There were lots of fun gags. There was a funny gag where two of the elves were after they were drunk, they were standing in the yard peeing and one obviously looks over at the other one’s dick and starts laughing.

Just goofy stuff like that. Yeah. The family stuff was cliche, but. Typical, but whatever. I still enjoyed it. It’s still, you know, it landed. I totally thought it landed. I didn’t think, you know, there were parts that were goofy. It certainly jumped the shark in places, but movies like this do all the time. Was it entirely unique and creative?

No, we’ve seen elf movies before. We’ve seen these kind of home invasion Christmas movies before. But I like them and this is a good one. So yeah, I will recommend this to people. I think it’s a lot of fun and I think it’s got a lot of appeal. Again, Christmas, family stuff,

Clip: Christmas

Craig: music, comedy. Some people might be turned off by the gore.

And if you’re not big into gore, then you probably, you know, it’s probably not going to be for you. Cause it does get gory in that second half. It does. There’s lots of blood.

Todd: There’s a lot of blood, but even then it’s not too bad. It’s just

Craig: CGI blood splatters.

Todd: Yeah, it’s some blood splatters here and there, like, when we talked about, for example, the two elves, like, the one shooting himself in the face and the other one, it’s an off screen thing.

So, like, they do actually restrain themselves considerably on, on making things too graphic. They could have gone further and they didn’t. I felt like they were trying to keep it light, you know, that’s what made it a little different from Krampus. Krampus felt kind of deep. Krampus had this, like, serious message, more or less, by the end of it.

Whereas this, you know, it doesn’t, it doesn’t really have the serious message. It’s just, uh,

Craig: well, appreciate your family.

Todd: Yeah. Appreciate your family. You come together at Christmas time to solve your problems and your challenges and, and don’t piss off the barn elves.

Craig: Right. Keep it down.

Todd: Yeah. Keep it down and keep the lights dim.

Well, thank you guys so much for listening. Really, we’re so excited about this holiday season coming up. If you have ideas for movies that are coming to your mind as you hear this, that we haven’t done yet, send us a message anywhere you can find us online. You just Google two guys in a chainsaw podcast.

You’ll find our website at ChainsawHorror. com. There’s even a speak to us button at the top where you can just record a one minute message, actually, and send that straight to us. Or you can just shoot us an email, leave us a review as well on your favorite podcast channel. So there are a lot of ways to get through to us and let us know what you think of the show and what you’d like to see us do this holiday season and beyond.

We hope you’re going to have a good, safe, and happy one. And we will be with you every step of the way these next three weeks. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          Happy Thanksgiving, Dear Listeners! We celebrate with a look at Eli Roth’s long-promised Thanksgiving horror film from 2023, based off the fake trailer he shot for Robert Rodriguez and Quentin Tarantino’s Grindhouse double-feature. A masked John Carver (har har) seeks his revenge for a Black Friday event gone horribly wrong the previous year.

It’s a modern horror film with a classical sensibility that was a feast for the senses this holiday season. What are we thankful for? As always, we’re thankful for you and the community that we share. Cheers to all of you!

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptThanksgiving (2023)Episode 417, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig. Happy Thanksgiving, Todd.

Todd: Happy Thanksgiving, Craig. It is that time of year again. Are you getting ready to settle down to some turkey and cranberry sauce?

Craig: I will do the same thing I do every year and get together with my family and eat some really good food and appreciate almost a full week off of work.

I think it’s going to be a very much needed break. I’m very much looking forward to it.

Todd: I can guess that. Yeah, I’m spending it with my son. And that, uh, Yay! This will be the first Thanksgiving I’ve spent with him in two years, I guess. So yeah. That’s wonderful. So last year, in 2023, Eli Roth made good on his promise to make a movie out of that hilarious, that hilarious fake trailer that he made for Grindhouse.

That Robert Rodriguez, Quentin Tarantino movie that had all the fake trailers in between was done as like a double feature. Yeah, because it was like

Craig: a double, it was a double feature.

Todd: Yeah, I, gosh, I loved that movie, and I loved the trailers, I loved the whole concept of what they did, but I never had imagined that those, those silly trailers would actually be made into movies, and yet, three of them happened.

Almost all of

Craig: them have, yeah. So crazy. And it’s three of five, I think, right?

Todd: Uh huh, and I know that Eli Roth almost from the get go was like, no, we’re making this movie. Apparently, he and his childhood friend had written a screenplay, or a script, or treatment, or something, for this movie that, basically a slasher movie that would take place at Thanksgiving, back when they were 18.

So, I think they had this idea in the works for quite a while, and that provided the impetus to do it. But he took his time with it. I mean, he took a good solid, what, Almost, what, 15 years? What, that came out in what, 2007? And so between 2007 and 2023 is what? How’s my math? I know it’s all 13, 16 years! 16 years.

And it kinda got in and out of development here and there. Roth was just basically like, We’re waiting for the script to get good enough. And This is what they put together. Like I said, it was his childhood friend, Jeff Rendell, who wrote this. Yeah, so last year, the timing wasn’t right, plus me being here, it’s kinda hard for me to see a brand new movie, so we weren’t able to do the 2023 Thanksgiving.

on Thanksgiving Day. Instead, we said we’re gonna do it next year. So here we are in 2024, and we have a movie called Thanksgiving that we can do on Thanksgiving. So, doesn’t get any better than that.

Craig: I was talking to Alan yesterday, and I was like, we’re recording our Thanksgiving episode tomorrow, and he said, what’s the movie?

And I looked at him with a big shitty ingrat on my face, said, Thanksgiving.

It’s hilarious. It’s funny to me that I didn’t know the things that you just said, that it was an idea that he’s had for a really long time. I didn’t know. It’s a great idea.

Clip: You know,

Craig: like there, there are hundreds of Christmas horror movies. I think that horror movie fans like us, When the holidays come around we’re like hmm.

I wonder if there are any Arbor Day horror movies

Like we’re actively Looking for them and there aren’t as many Thanksgiving ones. We’ve done some really fun ones. Oh we have But there there aren’t a lot. So I think it’s a brilliant idea. I Honestly, just okay. So I I Had never seen the movie. I just watched it yesterday, but I had actually never seen the trailer either And I just watched that about 10 minutes ago.

I will say, I will say that I enjoyed the trailer more than the movie Oh, yeah, but I don’t think they could have gone as gonzo As the trailer suggested. Yeah. For the whole time.

Todd: No way. The whole time.

Craig: I don’t think they could, I don’t think they could have pulled that off for an hour and a half or an hour and 45 minutes or whatever, cause it was crazy.

But yeah, probably Eli Roth felt a little bit responsible to including some of the details from the trailer. And, and some of the most shocking things from the movie are things from the trailer.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I think I’m glad that I saw the movie first, because I think I may have been a little bit let down if I had seen the trailer first.

I think that I would have been expecting something, like, like, Oh, holy shit, I can’t believe he’s gonna make this movie. Right. This might have felt a little tame. Mm hmm. But I did read something about that. Did you read that too?

Todd: Yeah. He

Craig: said the trailer that he made and that people saw was for a movie that was made in the 70s or something.

I don’t know. Don’t fact check me.

Todd: He said, let’s pretend this Thanksgiving was a movie from 1980 that was so offensive that it was That every print was destroyed, all the scripts were burned, the director disappeared, the crew members changed their names, and one person saved the trailer and uploaded it to the darkest corners of 4chan, and now it’s made it out.

So this is the 2023 reboot. And he said, once they said that, it freed them up to, you know, have a little more flexibility. with the kind of movie they were more interested in. That’s

Craig: actually really clever. Yeah, it is, it is.

Todd: Cause I saw the trailer first. Cause I saw it way years ago when I saw Grindhouse and I thought it was shocking and hilarious but it’s a trailer that is very much supposed to be of this Like, again, early slasher era, low budget, cheap exploitation film that would show in a grindhouse and it’s brutal like those are.

It’s amateurish and it looks like a movie that could have been made back then. Yeah. Now I feel like Eli Roth, you know, I mean, it’s 2024, 2023. He’s 16 years older than he was when he even made that. He’s an older guy. He’s made kids movies now. So I think he’s probably in a different place than he was back then.

When I read that quote, it almost feels like it was like a sense of relief. Like, okay, we don’t have to make that movie. Cause I don’t feel like E. Roy Roth is above making a movie like that. I mean, hell, like, That’s what he’s known for. Cabin Fever and Hostel. They’re, they’re wild, crazy, intense, gory, some may say tasteless rides.

I’m happy I saw the trailer first because I was waiting for those iconic moments. I was really hoping he would, he would include those. And then when I saw those moments coming, I was like, Oh man, is he’s not going to really do that,

Craig: is he? Those things to me were shocking when I saw them, you know what I’m saying?

Like in the movie, as opposed to, I wasn’t. Waiting for them. So when they came, I was shocked.

Todd: That makes sense. And so I wasn’t as shocked, but the trailer was what shocked me. So yeah, I was glad I saw it beforehand because I liked having that anticipation. But I agree with you in your other point, and that is that I came into this expecting a different kind of movie.

I really came into this expecting him to make a movie like that. And at first, I was a little disappointed that it wasn’t. Especially when it opens up with the whole Black Friday thing, and all these kids, and they’re all saying the F word every other sentence, and it’s his typical kind of smarmy, goofy humor.

But then, as the movie settled in, and it got past the opening scene, it started to feel very familiar to me. I was like, oh, this is actually a great homage to those earlier slasher movies. I mean, I was getting vibes of like any one of those that takes place in a high school prom night.

Craig: Yeah, and any masked killer.

Todd: Yeah. Down to the, I can’t remember which one it was, I, I wanna say it was, um, Final Exam, but I, I could be wrong, or maybe it was, uh, uh, anyway.

Craig: Valentine’s Day? It reminded me of Valentine’s Day.

Todd: It reminded me a lot, yeah. It remind, yeah, me too. But there’s one in particular that’s, that was a little more Giallo like, right, where the, where the killer would every, every time a person was killed, he’d pull out a, a picture and cross another person off of the photo of the

Craig: kids.

Uh, yeah, I don’t know, pieces, I don’t know. Something like right, I know what you’re talking about. It, it did to me also feel like, hey, this is an old school thing. That’s what he’s doing. And it’s good. Like I enjoyed that part of it. And I also want to say like, I don’t know really a whole lot about Eli Roth as a person.

And maybe that’s smart of him. You know, what, what I, what I do know about him is that he makes entertaining movies and he’s kind of hit or miss, you know, we’ve reviewed at least one of his movies. The Green Inferno that we didn’t like.

Todd: No.

Craig: But I don’t think it was poorly made. I just didn’t like it. I actually think that Eli Roth is a good filmmaker.

I think he’s talented.

Todd: Yeah, I think from the very beginning from Cabin Fever, he very quickly kind of got a signature style. You know, also, Quentin Tarantino supported him very early in his career and produced some of his earlier stuff and You can tell why they became good friends is because they both have seemed to have similar sensibilities, you know They’re both very interested in witty fun dialogue Kind of taking things to extremes but also being kind of tongue in cheek about it They love referencing old movies I bet those two get together and geek out like crazy over old horror and action movies and things like that and so like As Quentin Tarantino has sort of a signature style you can recognize right off the bat, I feel like when I pop in an Eli Roth movie, I’m always gonna get that.

And maybe when he kind of goes off the rails a little bit, is when he slips into less comfortable territory, and that’s when things become a little more missed than hit. You know, I know that his most recent action movie, Borderlands, was hilariously panned.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. I’m not an expert. I’m just a viewer.

And the movies that I’ve watched of his, I feel like he’s got an eye. I don’t know. His movies are, they’re well shot. They look, they just look good. Yeah. Even those movies like Cabin Fever. There are moments in that movie that are forever imprinted on my mind that I will never forget. When that girl. goes to shave her legs, and she shaves her skin off.

Yes. I, that will go, hopefully, to heaven with me, because I will never forget it. I’ll never forget it. That image of that girl. From Welcome to the Dollhouse. I can’t think of her name. Heather. Heather something. When she’s hanging in Hostel 2. Oh yes. When she’s hanging upside down and weeping and begging and her throat gets cut and bleeds down over that woman in a tub.

I will never forget that. Dementia will not be forgotten. Take that from me! Hahaha!

Todd: I’m glad these are the things. Whatever. That you will cling to as you Whatever

Craig: it takes! It will As you’re tying, yeah. That.

Todd: We gotta all have something to hold on to. We literally watched Hostile 2 yesterday.

Craig: Are you shitting me? That’s hilarious. I am

Todd: not kidding you. Yeah. It was kinda cool because it reminded me.

I was like, yeah, yeah. This is him and this is what I kind of enjoy about him. He feels young and fresh. His dialogue and the situations, they feel young and fresh. They also feel, like, I mean, the word fresh, I’m picking very specifically because even though these are, you know, how many horror movies are really groundbreaking?

But his always feel different. I think he knows how to write teenagers, he knows how to write Fun witty dialogue.

Craig: I think he knows how to be tongue in cheek about it. Yeah

Todd: Yeah, he

Craig: gets it. Like I get that. This is Cliche I I get that but I don’t know fresh is an interesting word because I did find this. I mean this is a traditional Slasher and that’s one of the things that I like about it.

It’s holiday themed. It’s a masked killer There’s a backstory Ultimately, there’s a motive but there’s just this person going around Killing people. I also love and this is you know, it doesn’t apply to Across the board, but everybody involved, like all the victims are tied to the backstory. Yeah. I like that.

Like it’s, it’s giving me everything. I want from what it’s supposed to be. Now saying that makes it sound like I’m giving this movie a glowing endorsement. The truth of the matter is there were so many characters. I didn’t know what was going on. A lot of the time. A lot of the

Todd: time. Like,

Craig: what? Who are you?

Todd: I felt the same way, but I also was secure in the knowledge that it didn’t matter. Like, I never once imagined that I would need to Like, I was so loose in my note taking. Some of the characters, I never knew their names. I never quite figured out how they were related or who was friends with who. But I knew from the beginning.

That this was going to be the kind of movie that, that wouldn’t even matter. And in a way I felt like he was rather restrained with this one in going in such a traditional direction. I expected, especially after the opening parts to get that sort of post scream era, self aware, meta, meta, slightly meta, but more just like self aware, jokey, Kind of thing and yet it really wasn’t

Craig: I mean no and and I liked that about it Yeah, this movie feels very much like Scream or I know what you did last summer and I say scream right after you say it’s not meta It’s not the these kids aren’t you know talking about horror movies?

Yeah, but it feels like those 90s Slashers. But,

Todd: well, it feels like the 90s slashers because it’s updated, I mean, cause the, maybe the cinematography or something like that. Sure. I mean. Yes. Yeah. I felt like though, it felt a hundred percent like those 70s slashers. And here’s why. There was no like real escalation of things, like in those older movies, like prom night or whatever, right?

In the weeks leading up to prom night, people are getting killed and dropped off left and right. And if you just. Come into the movie at any point. You will never know how many people were killed before that, because the characters never really seem to care. Like, they’re gonna go through with prom.

They’re gonna go about their lives. Oh shit, my best friend just died. We’re gonna cry about it for a minute. And then the next scene is now they’re arguing over some boy, or they’re necking in the woods. You know what I mean? There’s this sort of like just detachment where the plot just flows improbably.

As everyone’s dying and yet the characters seem to like almost from scene to scene forget that this horrible traumatic thing happened And they should all just be locking themselves in their homes until they have found who has killed these, you know, six people Within the course of the last week Especially because so many of them know that they’re on the list because the killer and and and what I’m trying to say is like That’s how those older movies were Scream and the more modern ones are not quite like that.

They try to make it a little more realistic. And I felt like this movie was a throwback to a time where it was really just about body count and about creative kills. And, and that’s what I appreciated about it.

Craig: I suppose, I supp You don’t agree, yeah? I just, no, it’s not that I don’t agree. It’s just that I see so many similarities with those 90s ones.

Because I feel like the, the big mystery is who is it? Right. Is it, there is a backstory that that’s why it reminds me so much of like, I know what you did last summer, like everything’s tied together. And I felt like I kind of knew that from the beginning because It’s projected, you know, like the, the killer is taunting them with phone calls and videos and screen, like it’s projected to me that there’s a clear motive.

This isn’t just Jason killing kids cause they, you know, like,

Todd: yeah,

Craig: there’s a reason.

Todd: That’s why it kind of, it feels a little more like those, the slashers, like the burning and the, you know, that era, that like the 1981 era, where there was, there was a clear motive. Like it would always be some guy who got wronged, who came back, you know, the guy in the mine, who was left down there and who had to like eat somebody or whatever and was traumatized by it.

And that

Craig: was one of Roth’s clear inspirations for this movie. He said that, he said that he wanted to do exactly what. I’m saying, idiotically, he wanted to do a slasher like that. He was inspired by Friday the 13th. He was inspired by My Bloody Valentine. Like the final scene of the movie is virtually identical to the final scene of My Bloody Valentine.

Am I right?

Todd: Yeah, you’re right. It virtually is. It just takes place in a different location.

Craig: We should set up what the movie’s about, which is difficult to do.

Todd: There’s so much stuff.

Craig: It starts out The first thing that I wrote down is, I love the TriStar Pegasus. Yeah, I haven’t seen that in a while. Back in the late 80s and 90s, when I saw the TriStar Pegasus, I’m like, This is going to be a good movie.

You’ve said that before.

I love

Todd: it. So you’re going to carry that with you into dementia as well, aren’t you? I hope

Craig: so. And they’re in Plymouth, Massachusetts. This is Thanksgiving and Patrick Dempsey. God, I also, I have no idea what his name is. He’s the sheriff, but it’s Patrick Dempsey. McDreamy goes to Gina Gershon’s.

Thanksgiving. I have no idea what’s happening, but I’m frantically writing notes like, Patrick Tipsy? Gina Gershon?

Clip: What

Craig: is happening? Oh god, it was very exciting. And they’re at dinner, and then it’s Black Friday at this store. And some teenagers who are eventually going to be the people that we are going to follow for a while.

Somehow get in there early because Jess, the main girl, her dad owns the store. Is that right?

Todd: Yep. Yep.

Craig: So they get in there early and they’re kind of dicks about it and like taunt the people outside. And the people outside turn into a rage fueled mob and break into the store and people are slaughtered.

I’m surprised that this didn’t happen more often in real life because that shit used to be crazy. I’ve said it before. I’ll say it again. The pandemic was terrible, but if anything good came out of it, it killed Black Friday. I am so happy about that. Thank God for that.

Todd: Yeah, you know, it was funny because, uh, obviously shades of that movie Black Friday that we saw.

Yes. Shades of Krampus. Krampus! The beginning of Krampus, when they taught, when This is where I thought, okay, well, the movie’s going for this goofy social commentary. No, it really wasn’t. This is just an event, and there’s a lot of silliness happening. It’s the

Craig: inciting incident. Mm hmm. It’s Jason Voorhees drowning.

It’s the kid in the burning getting blown up in the, you know, outhouse or whatever. I don’t even remember, but people die. Remember friends later that it’s important that Gina Gershon gets trampled to death horribly in this scene. And it’s disgusting. And it’s, it’s very gory. Like everything about this movie is a hundred percent competent.

I want to praise it on that level. I want to praise it overall, but like it’s gory. The end. Dark and shocking. Yeah, I think in some respects, but when these things happened, like when Gina Gershon, I think her throat or her head or something gets stomped and then she’s just laying there very bloody. It’s very graphic and I was shocked, but I was glad to be shocked.

I was like, Oh yeah, I didn’t know. I, Oh, like here we are in the first five minutes.

Todd: A shopping cart whacks her right in the head and she kind of gets jammed between two of them. It’s horrible. She gets killed and there was a guy there who was manning the door who they break through the door. It’s kind of funny where he watches the glass slowly break.

It’s almost like that scene from Jurassic Park, the sequel, right? Where the glass slowly starts breaking. Yeah, so it’s got this these funny moments, but then these horrible things happen and it’s all about a waffle irons They keep referring to this incident because every everybody gets affected by this incident Obviously this girl and her family are affected her father has to go on a big tour of goodwill After this and it’s got a lot of damage to repair to the store’s reputation For even being open and allowing that to happen one of the security guards just took off Turntail and ran in the very beginning, but then there are these kids, even though they didn’t really, they kind of seem to have almost incited the mob, or at least they have some guilt from that, or they’re being blamed for that because they got in early, and how did that happen, and why did that happen, and, and so there was just kind of all these reasons for all these different people to either be angry about what happened, or for other people to be angry at them.

So, you’ve got a lot of possibilities as to who the killer could be right away when people who were involved in this incident suddenly start getting picked off.

Craig: As they do. Yeah. And that’s, that’s the impetus. It, it almost, God, I’m so dumb, I guess. It took me a second to realize that the people who were getting killed were all people who were directly involved in this.

Luckily for dummies like me, The movie eventually tells us that like, like when people start looking into it, they start to figure out, Oh yeah, all these people are connected. Me, big dummy, trying to take a bunch of notes, trying to write down all these people’s names. And there’s like 500 characters in this movie and some of them look just alike.

There were two guys. Who looked exactly the same and I couldn’t figure that one of them was Bobby, but there was another guy, Evan or something. I don’t know that they were identical to me, even though I’m sure if you put them side by side, they probably are easily distinguishable. I couldn’t figure it out.

It was so hard for me to keep track of who was who. And because there were so many people, it took me a while to figure out that Jess. I have early in my notes, Jess is the main girl, like probably the final girl. But then there are so many people that come in and out. I just kind of found it hard to follow.

Ultimately it doesn’t really matter. There’s just this guy and he’s dressed as a pilgrim and he’s wearing a John Carver mask.

Todd: So funny.

Craig: Now, apparently John Carver is an actual historical figure whom I know nothing about. Do you know anything about this?

Todd: I should have looked up John Carver. I’m frantically looking him up right now.

Craig: No. Who cares? Nobody cares. He’s a pilgrim. He was the governor.

Todd: He was a Mayflower passenger. And a New World colonist. He was the first governor of Plymouth County. He was in office from 1620 to 1621. So, yeah, that’s fascinating.

Craig: Anyway, he’s a pilgrim and he’s killing people in pretty creative ways. The first person I think that he can, and when I say a pilgrim, he’s dressed like a pilgrim, but he’s also wearing one of those plastic Halloween masks that don’t even really exist anymore.

No. Those really thin plastic mold masks that would, like, cut your face because they were razor sharp. And it just secured, secured around your face with just a little piece of elastic. Did you say fifties? I wore those masks, Todd. Did you not?

Todd: I said, I said from about the 50s through the 80s is when I think that was happening because those were always the masks that were sold with the Outfit that was nothing more than like a printed like a poncho.

Yeah So hot and sweaty, but man, I guess it just got the job done when you were, when you were in a pinch. Oh man, yeah, whatever. So he’s,

Craig: yeah, so he’s in one of those messes, and he kills a bunch of people. The, the first one he kills this lady who works in a restaurant, I think? Yeah, she

Todd: was the lady who, she got the most screen time, it seems like, during the shouting crowd scenes, because she was, uh, she was so angry, and, you know, Pulling waffle irons out of people’s hands and stuff like that.

Craig: Oh, right, right. Yep. Yep. I remember that he Dunks her in water and it seems like that shot that we’ve seen a million times where somebody dunks somebody in Hot oil or hot water, but it’s not even that. It’s just regular water. And then he pulls her out and he opens the freezer door and he sticks her face to it and it freezes to the door like that would happen to the tool.

Todd: It’s so dumb.

Craig: I don’t know, but I thought that was a really clever. I actually thought that that. That may have been my favorite kill and there are other good kills that you may have to recount because this is where things get fuzzy for me, the whole middle of the movie. I was just really kind of.

Confused. I didn’t know what was happening.

Todd: Yeah, well, well, the way she finally gets it, ’cause she manages to peel her face away and half of the skin comes with it. But she runs outside and dives into a , dives into a dumpster, just as the killer is driving a truck into the dumpster and somehow. That man just to bisect her so that her legs fall off and it’s really gross but really creative and then the killer sticks the legs over the star in the right, it’s called the right mart or whatever like that and there’s like a star in the logo and whatever way up high and uh, so he’s kind of marked the store

Craig: and he sends, he sends, I guess, pictures To Jess and the other teenagers of a table set for dinner and I know that at least that, the top half of her torso is there.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I don’t remember at what point, like, this person is obviously setting this table with the victims, and then taunting the other victims.

Todd: That was sort of the throwback, you know, element. Updated to modern times. This, the, the killer has an Instagram account, basically. That he’s obscured through several cell phones and some kind of technology.

So they can’t track him down, but he is able to post taunting photos. And he’s got the Thanksgiving table set. And then later on, they notice that there are place names set at each spot. And then we, every now and then, not often enough, I thought, because like I said, in those earlier movies, after another person dies, you’ll get this nice closeup from the killer’s point of view as he crosses another person off of his list or scratches someone’s face out of the photo or whatnot.

But yeah, every now and then we get to see him setting up a torso next to the table or putting someone’s head on a plate next to their own name plate and things like that.

Craig: Yeah. And it’s, it’s classic slasher. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a little bit giallo. I would say, you know, A lot of focus on these black gloves.

You know, it’s all a mystery of Who is it? It, it, it has to be somebody who’s involved, right? Yeah, so it has to be. And there’s some red herrings. There are a million red herrings. Everybody’s a red herring. I feel like we’re basically following Jess. So, you know, it can’t be her, but there are boys all around her.

There’s her new boyfriend who nobody really likes, but her, but they kind of tolerate him. There’s her old boyfriend who was involved in filmed the whole thing, but he was. baseball player and he got injured and like after this happened, he just disappeared and they don’t know where he is. And again, all red herrings, basically.

Right. But meanwhile, you’ve got this masked, gloved person. And just before, I turned it off as I was answering your call. But I was watching an interview with Eli Roth. And he said that he really wanted it to remain a mystery who the killer was. So he had All of the actors and then also various like stunt people or whatever in that costume.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: In different scenes. So anybody who you thought that it might have been, might have been in that costume at some point. That, that’s, that’s Easy, you know, but it’s kind

Todd: of cheating, but okay,

Craig: I like it.

Todd: Well, it also had me thinking at one point that maybe there were two.

Craig: I wondered or more. I wondered that too.

Like it could be too. It could be more. I had no idea what was going on because and this is smart too. They lots of movies have done it since scream, but Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees. Were masked killers, but it’s not like there were a bunch of them running around and you didn’t know which one was the Right, you know ever since scream with the ghost face mask everybody and There are people lots of people running around in these masks.

Yeah, so You don’t know

Todd: who one of those the killer

Craig: is. And at one point, one of the most shocking parts to me was a part that’s in the trailer, but they changed it. There’s a part where for some, you know, the kids already know there’s a killer. They’re looking out for them, but for some reason they’re in the parade.

And they’re all dressed as pilgrims too, and they’re looking out, but there are tons of people dressed as the pilgrim, and that’s the people that they’re looking at. There also has, happens to be a nightmarish clown. Yeah, what was that? Walking around in the parade. And I was like, what? I don’t think this guy understood the essential.

This is like, like cool costume, bro. But this is like a Thanksgiving day parade. I don’t think you get it. And then that clown. Takes an axe and chops somebody’s head off. Yeah. The, the turkey, like, like a guy dressed as a turkey. Yeah. And that moment is in the original trailer, but it’s the guy in the pilgrim mask.

But that, that shocked me so much. I was like, what is happening? Yeah.

Todd: Well, that, that happens later. Other people die. The store security guy who would run off. Comes home and I think after the woman is found dead, he decides he needs to get out of Dodge with his cat. He has this cute little cat and he’s putting his things together and of course something’s missing and so he’s looking for it.

Senses someone’s in the house and he’s right. This guy comes out from, I think, under the table and stabs him with one of those electric carvers, which was, uh

Craig: Oh, that was, that, that scene was really funny because like he heard somebody in the house and so like he was walking around and he said something like,

But then he gets chopped up with an electric carver and it’s very gruesome. The, the scene is also funny because for part of it, he’s talking. to his cat. Yes. And he asks the cat, he’s like, where is it buddy? And the cat like does a take to the side. And it turns out that that’s not even really where the person is.

But my favorite bit of trivia that I read about this was that Eli Roth said that the cat actor was so good. Like that cat would just do anything that it was told to do. It was apparently the cat that was in The Pet Sematary remake. And I remember reading about that movie and reading that the trainer talked about how amazing that cat was.

But I also, and I like cats and I know you like cats too.

Todd: I love cats.

Craig: What was it? I lost what I was going to say.

Todd: He, he, he nicknamed the cat Leonardo DiCaprio.

Craig: Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s hilarious. What I was going to say was he also wanted to answer the question, what happens to the pet? And honestly, that is a question that I have asked myself when I watch these movies.

You guys are so weird.

Todd: I have never once asked that question.

Craig: What’s going to happen? Todd, you had cats. If somebody had come and slaughtered you, I mean, your cats would have eaten you, but then what happens after that?

Todd: Right.

Craig: Probably go

Todd: take a nap for a while is what they do. Oh

Craig: God. That would be, that would be my first concern.

My first concern. I don’t have kids. I get it. You have an actual human kid. No,

Todd: I hear you. So, so the killer as he’s walking out pauses, turns around, looks back at the cat before he puts some food in his bowl so the cat could eat as he’s walking out the door. I thought that was hilarious. Thank you.

Craig: Thank you for making that point.

Todd: Yeah, it was cute. Oh god.

Craig: Yeah, I, I, I thought that was funny. There are a lot of things in the movie I think are funny, and I think that are Intended to be funny. Yeah. Yeah, it’s just at some point. I was done. Okay, all right, let’s get to it. Let’s get to it. Who’s the killer?

Todd: Honestly,

Craig: things get muddy for me here because there are still so many of them.

There are people that we haven’t even talked about. And

Todd: they’re all interacting with each other in all kinds of ways. Like Ryan and Bobby. So Bobby’s come back into town and that seems mysterious. And Ryan and Bobby have kind of a jealousy thing because Ryan is now dating Jessica. I don’t know.

Somebody’s father tries to pull her out and I Then they’re getting more of these, these photos, and they’re involving the sheriff again, and the sheriff’s got an assistant. Well, assistant. He’s another deputy or whatever, you know. There’s Stube, we haven’t even talked about him, he’s like the token black guy.

There’s Scott, who is Ryan’s Scooba, yeah. Yeah, roommate who kind of comes in and then kind of leaves for a while and then pops back in every now and then. At one point I thought it was him, because I was like, he’s gonna be somebody we haven’t seen much, you know? And that guy might have a reason, and then they go back and they review the tape.

There’s this whole deal where They want to get back to that night and figure out if anybody knows anything from that, that night a year ago that they’re not saying. And I’m also sitting here thinking, why is this really that important? Like, how are you going to get a clue? Everybody knows what, already knows what happened at that event.

You know, what new clue are you going to get? After the event, nobody went to that event knowing all that shit was gonna go down. So it’s not like anybody was preparing anything, you know? But they review tapes, Jess Jess kind of just suddenly says, Well, you know what? I’ve known all this time that my father had backups of those of that.

And I just never brought it up to anybody or brought it up to the police, but I’m gonna go in and and look at them. And she gets some stills and it it turns out that Somebody knew somebody and somebody I mean it’s like I was all I was also sitting here going like I think all this is pretty flimsy

Craig: Yeah, ultimately nothing.

It doesn’t matter

Todd: busy work for the move It’s just stuff for them to do in between killings Honestly,

Craig: right the the person the person who is doing this the person who has a vendetta We’re not learning anything new. No, we’re not. The reason that this person is angry is because they got in there early and flaunted it and caused the riot.

Yeah. We know that from the first scene. There’s no question. We don’t learn anything new. No. But it is a lot of investigation. There are moments from this movie that I thought were just hilarious. It is. Out of context, I have no idea when this happens. I feel like it happens on TV. Like they’re interviewing some kid, this kid named Chad, and he says, and that’s why I won’t be celebrating Thanksgiving this year or any year.

And then he pulls up the corner of the bottom corner of his shirt to wipe a tear from his eyes, just to show like his rock hard abs.

Todd: While the two girls sit next to him are like, Oh Chad, it’s okay.

Craig: I think I get Eli Roth’s sense of humor. Yeah. I think he has kind of a dark, twisted sense of humor that I get. He does.

Todd: And

Craig: there’s so many,

Todd: there’s so many moments like that in this movie, but they’re also like, they just come and they go and they’re, it’s just so unlike his other ones where it seems like there’s a joke like that.

All the time, you know, going on. Whereas in this one, they still happen, but it’s a much more restrained to the point where it doesn’t make the movie feel like a comedy, like, like his other movies kind of do, I mean, even hostile to a certain extent, there are moments where it just kind of just becomes comedy.

And this movie never really felt that way, which is. Again, why I thought it was such a great homage to those older movies while still giving him a little bit of his own particular style and updating it a little bit.

Craig: Some of the big things, like things from the trailer, like, I don’t remember how it happens, like the killer just gets people when he needs people.

Yeah. At some point I feel like he gets a bunch of them. At the school. And they’re all tied up around, and maybe at some point they’re all tied up around the table or whatever. That’s at the end,

Todd: yeah. Toward the end

Craig: the stepmom he gets the stepmom at some point. Oh god. She wakes up on a table like surrounded by

Todd: potatoes and carrots and shit

Craig: And then and then she she wakes up and she realizes that he’s there so she still pretends to be asleep while he Bastes her, like he like, brushes her with butter, and we know that she’s awake and conscious while he’s painting butter on her face.

Todd: Sprinkling rock salt on it.

Craig: Oh yeah. Oh, he seasons her. He sticks like, yeah, like rosemary between her toes.

It’s, it’s great. Like, it’s great. I feel like this is even like a throwback to like, Chainsaw Massacre, you know, like this, this guy, he’s sick, he’s twisted. And then there’s a whole scene where she wakes up and she runs away and it’s very tense and she’s running around and she finds other bodies and whatnot, blah, but like, it’s great.

It’s, it’s fairly typical. It feels like something right out of, I know what you did last summer, that kind of chase, but eventually he gets her and he puts her in the oven. Where does this oven exist? Oh, I know, right? It’s like the, I guess it must be the biggest pizza oven in the world because she, her whole body fits in there.

And he turns it on and she starts to freak out cause like the burners start to glow. But then he opens the oven door and reaches in and stabs her with something and then closes the door again. And it’s one of those turkey thermometers.

Todd: Oh, so funny. So funny.

Craig: And then she cooks and then when she’s cooked it pops. Oh

Todd: my God. Oh.

Craig: That’s funny, that’s funny. If you’re gonna make a Thanksgiving horror movie and call it Thanksgiving, you gotta do it. And then later, and then later he serves the mom trussed up like a turkey.

Todd: Legs in the air. Fold it over.

Apparently, apparently there was a scene on the blu ray that didn’t make it where Instead of wearing her skirt there or whatever her lower half of her body was naked and stuffing was stuffed between her legs Oh my god, that’s disgusting But more in keeping actually with the trailer the fake trailer that this was based on even more disgusting stuff happens in that Do you remember that?

Clip: Yeeeah. That’s the very last

Craig: image. Yes. I wasn’t sure what was going on, but now that you said it, okay, yeah, gross, gross.

Todd: He doesn’t go that far. Yeah. But yeah, you’re right. It’s like Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I was getting totally those vibes as everyone is tied up around this table screaming as this woman is put down there and he casually walks around it and from behind his mask And with like a voice changer, is telling them all, basically taunting them and telling them why he’s doing what he’s doing.

Clip: Now, we’re all going to go around the table and say what we’re thankful for. You’re on live, so choose your words wisely.

Todd: And then he completely tenderizes one of the boys head with a meat tenderizer.

Craig: Holy shit! That was brutal. That was It was brutal and not unexpected because as soon as it started to happen, I knew it was going to happen, but it was so brutal.

Like he had taken the time to tie them all up around the table.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Only for as soon as they all woke up to Smash one guy’s head down on the table and just beat the shit, like with a mallet, just destroy his head. It was violent. It was brutal. The movie is, the movie is violent and brutal and bloody. And I, you know, that’s not, gore is not my thing, but when it’s well done, it’s well done.

And I think that it’s really well done here. And somehow I can’t explain it. But there is sometimes when gore is done in a spirit of fun that I can get behind it.

Todd: Yeah, I know what you mean.

Craig: That’s what this seems like. It seems like it’s in a spirit of fun. It doesn’t seem like I’m just trying to traumatize you.

Todd: That’s, that’s how those old movies kind of were too, you know? And back then the effects weren’t even that great, so it was even more fun. Where are we going with this? I guess, you know, he’s got them all around the table. The, they start to peel away and run off, uh, there’s some chasing going on, all this is muddied in my head too, like, I really didn’t know who was going where and what was happening, because then at some point, they’re far away from this house, and Jessica, Jess suddenly stumbles upon one of the sheriff’s cars with the, uh, trunk open and his deputy is laying next to it.

And I was like, what happened here? And why did she just stumble on this? And so then, like an idiot, she wanders into the nearest building and has another encounter that she barely gets away from with this guy. I don’t remember how I have no

Craig: idea. I have no idea what is happening.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: There is that car, there’s that car wreck with the police.

I thought that was Patrick Dempsey who was on the road. Yeah, I did too at first.

Todd: No, it was the other guy. Okay, so, okay,

Craig: all right, okay. Because I was so confused because then he shows up later and he doesn’t have road rash. Or does he? I don’t know. Is

Todd: this? It’s in this building when they’re doing the chase that her friend is also there and I don’t know why her friend was there No, no, no, no

Craig: her one of her friends is there She follows she she takes the gun off the cop that she finds in the road And then she goes in this house and she sees the guy the masked guy She follows him And he takes off the mask and it’s one of her friends, Bobby, I don’t know, one of the curly haired ones that looks just like one of the other ones.

I don’t know. But she’s like, Oh shit, it’s Bobby. But then Patrick Dempsey shows up and she’s like, Patrick Dempsey, it’s Bobby. And he’s like, okay, go outside. I’ll take care of it. And she goes outside and closes the door. And immediately I was like, no, F you, Patrick Dempsey. This is shady as hell. But he goes inside and she just hears three gunshots.

Todd: And

Craig: he comes back out and he’s like, Oh yeah, it was Bobby. I think I shot him, but he ran away.

Todd: And now you know, okay, now we know what’s going down.

Craig: I felt like it was a little clumsy, and I also felt like the reveal, she’s just a big dum dum up until now, but then she’s sitting, like everything’s, I don’t know, Patrick Dempsey comes in and like, everything’s fine, I don’t know, everything’s fine, I need to go away for a second so you can have a revelation, I’ll be right back.

Right. She’s just sitting there, and she looks at her pants, she’s picking burrs. And then she just flashes back to a million things and I guess it’s when he comes back in and she sees that he also has burrs on his pants and shoes. Yeah. She flashes back to a million things. And the thing that’s, uh, She flashes back to are him saying like I’ve needed you all along I never could have done it without you and I guess we’re to believe that that’s true because he finally does come back and She’s a big dum dum and can’t just play it cool and totally Blows her cover and he’s like, oh, I guess, you know, now I have to kill you.

Todd: Yeah I don’t know what he needed her for i’m not really sure what she did that helped him in any way he could have just I guess

Craig: like she was just his liaison and like Letting him know where people were gonna be

Todd: That was clumsy. I don’t know. I called it by the way. I called it halfway through the movie I was like, it’s got to be him.

Craig: I didn’t. And the, the motive is that he was f ing Gina Gershon and he was in love with her, even though she was married to the Rite Aid store owner or something. I don’t know, but she was pregnant and, and she got killed in that. Black Friday disaster, and that’s why he’s after everybody. All right, fine.

Todd: I mean, that was the first scene in the movie, really, was him coming up to the door and and and her opening it, and I was like, Oh, they had a look, you know, they had a moment.

And so when I was going back, especially when they pointed out, Oh, well, maybe somebody’s mad that that guy You know got trampled by the door. I thought well who else got killed there? Well, it was that that woman and I thought oh, yeah It’s I mean, it’s not her husband because he’s barely been around so it must have been be this guy was in love with her Maybe that’s what it was.

I did not I

Craig: was just like I was like Patrick Dempsey Gina Grisha

I was Yeah, I was just shocked that they were both in it. They were even in it. My question to you, my question to you is, why is it that when he realizes that she has figured it out, why does he turn into Robert De Niro? What do you mean? Todd, didn’t his accent change? Entirely Change, I mean, I’m surely not making this up like I feel like he talked he talked in a certain way throughout the whole movie and then as soon as As soon as she figured out he’s like You talking to me?

You talking to me?

Todd: He had a bit of that accent through the whole movie though, maybe it was just a little more intensified at that point I thought it was interesting because the whole accent was not something I normally hear out of his mouth But I was reading through the trivia and apparently that’s his actual way, his original Eastern, you know, New England accent that he had to suppress when he got started in acting and part of why he was excited to Do the movie was that he could just kind of let it go So maybe yeah, maybe he got very into that scene and decided to really let it go

Craig: I don’t know.

Shout out to Patrick Dempsey. I really like Patrick Dempsey. I’ve liked him for a long long long time

Todd: Ever since Can’t Buy Me Love, is that what you’re gonna say? Uh huh.

Craig: Can’t Buy Me Love, that movie where he was like a gigolo pizza boy, likes that movie.

Todd: He looks the same. Good guy. That guy doesn’t age.

Craig: Yeah,

Todd: it’s kind of amazing handsome

Craig: handsome guy. Good for you. Patrick Dempsey and good for you for maintaining a career And you know, he’s he’s popping up in horror stuff. You know, he was one in one of those scream movies Recently. Anyway, great. Whatever. He’s the killer. So then he chases her around and other stuff happens and they’re filling up a giant inflatable turkey That he doesn’t notice and some of them are running away.

I don’t even remember who’s with her at this point. Like, I feel like Scuba and Gabby, and I don’t even know who these people are, but some of the people, some of the people who are left are with her and are helping her get away and they’re running away. And she loads a musket, which she had shown us that she could do earlier in the movie.

Bye. She looks at, and McDreamy is chasing her. But he, you know, he’s standing in front of this giant turkey that’s inflating behind him. He says,

Clip: sorry, Jessica. This year there will be no leftovers.

Craig: Oh man. Oh, gosh, and then it looks, it looks like she’s going to shoot him, but she’s not. And she even indicates that to him, like, ha ha, dummy, I’m not going to shoot you. I’m going to shoot this giant inflatable turkey behind you that we’ve been filling with like, I don’t know, propane? Some kind of

Todd: flammable gas.

Craig: And she shoots it, it explodes, and it explodes him. Something that was funny to me about the ending of the movie is he Was he obsessed with her? Because he keeps saying her name and so weird.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: When the explosion happened, I had earbuds in. I don’t know how you were watching it, but I swear to God, I heard him scream,

Clip: Jessica!

Craig: He did. What?

Todd: Why is he so obsessed with her? There’s kind of a weird ending, like a tag on to this, that reminded me of The Guest a little bit. I mean, so much like The Guest, they’re sitting by the ambulance, and all the first responders are coming out, and they’re clearing the area, and one of them comes up and says, You know, we searched the whole place, there’s no way anybody could have survived in there, but everything was burnt to ash.

But then, implied in that is that they never could find his body, right? They just assume it was all burned up. And then she thinks, she kind of in her head, thinks she sees a guy walking out. No, she does see a guy! Well, she sees a guy, but she kind of in her head imagines it might be him. And maybe it is supposed to be him, because they’re going to do a sequel.

Maybe

Craig: it isn’t, but I mentioned that at the beginning when we started talking. I said the end is almost exactly the same as My Bloody Valentine.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: I think that happens at the end of My Bloody Valentine, too. He just runs, skipping down the, down the mine. No, we see somebody come like everything’s over everything’s okay, but we see somebody coming out of the mine Who is in a mask, you know, like you don’t know who’s behind that.

Todd: Oh, you’re talking about the second one About the remake. I’m talking about the first one. Remember where he literally is skipping away down the mine going, Happy Valentine’s Day! Woo wee! But they can’t get to him because half of the mines caved in. I don’t remember

Craig: that. I don’t know. Like, overall, I Watch it.

Hello, friends, horror lovers. You’re looking for something to watch on Thanksgiving with your significant other, or your adolescent teenager kid, or your friends who love horror movies. And you’re in the Thanksgiving spirit. Yep. Watch it. Watch it. Is it amazing? No. It’s not amazing, but it’s really not bad.

It’s not bad. I don’t know that I’ll ever feel the need to watch it again. This isn’t gonna be, for me, something that like, oh shit, like yeah. I’m gonna watch this every Thanksgiving from now on. But I do think that Roth accomplished what he was going for. I think he was going for an old school slasher.

Yeah. I think, like us, he’s like, Let’s let’s make this a holiday movie. Why not and it is I mean it is thanksgiving

Todd: Yeah

Craig: through and through and I love that about it And that’s why I definitely say yeah, check it out. Check it out. I don’t want to set the bar too high I I don’t want you to go in and To it thinking that it’s gonna be amazing because I personally don’t think it’s amazing, but I did enjoy it.

Todd: I mean, I literally enjoyed it as much as I enjoy watching those older slasher movies, and that says something. I mean, as far as I’m concerned, you just throw it on the pile.

Craig: That’s fair.

Todd: You know, I’m not gonna go watch, re watch any of those either. But I have fond memories from them, and I really enjoyed watching them.

Maybe I’ll go back and watch like, The Burning or, Final exam or something one more time pieces or something like that, but generally no You know, but I loved them. I loved them in the moment They delivered exactly what I was looking for and part of what I enjoyed about it was its formula It’s sort of predictability and it’s in predictability and the fact that It, there was like a mystery to it, you know, you’re, you’re guessing.

Sure. And that’s more fun. Like, you know, those slasher films are in a bit of a different category than, like you said earlier, like the Friday the 13th and the, the Freddy ones. You know, there’s no mystery involved in those movies. And that, that’s fun. Style of slasher movie where it’s just some supernatural killer.

We know who he is. Oh, it’s Michael Myers, right? Mm hmm These always had the the big whodunit aspect to it and all the red herrings and I really enjoyed that part of it You know, so yeah, no and plus with the really shocking really gory brutal kills Gosh that scene with the girl on the frickin table saw Jesus.

Oh my god Oh

Craig: Right after she had been stabbed in the ears with corncob holders

Todd: He had a lot of fun trying to come up with these unique kills and fun That’s another thing that those horror movies did, you know, that’s why you watch the sleepaway camp movies What weird way are people gonna be murdered in and so yeah, I enjoyed it.

I thought it was fun And like you said, Perfectly fine. Nothing super outstanding about it, but very solid. And I’m glad I watched it. I had a good time.

Craig: Me too. Me too. I, I just wanted to say this, you know, this is our Thanksgiving episode. And in the spirit of Thanksgiving, I want to thank a lot of people. I want to thank everybody who listens.

all the time regardless of where you find us. I want to thank the patrons who support us in a different way and who we get to have some really cool interactions with. And Todd, I want to thank you for doing all the work. And just for all of you, and Todd, you especially, thank you for being somebody that I can just talk to and be with and, and trust.

And this, this to me, all of this, the, the podcast, the Patreon stuff, it’s a wonderful escape to A happy place. So, thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you, all of you.

Todd: I echo with that, Craig. And I want to thank you, too, for being a friend. Da da da da, travel down the road and back again. I also, but seriously, though, no, really, this is something I look forward to.

Every week is sitting down and chatting with you and, you know, we know where we stand and we, we’re good buddies in that way and you’re somebody I can always chat with and confide in and, and also just goof on, on great horror movies. We have a really good time with that. Thank God. And this, yeah, right? We need these escapes sometimes.

And, uh, I also want to thank, obviously, just like you, our listeners out there who have been with us through thick and thin, and who have stuck with us all these years, and who take the time to reach out and chat with us. We love our interactions with you. Thank you so much for making us a part of your entertainment, your day.

There’s a lot of stuff you can do with your time, and the fact that you’re interested in hearing us gab back and forth is very humbling, and Just, thank you for that. Thank you for giving us a reason to keep doing it. Also, I really want to thank the people who have, um, joined us on our podcast this year.

You know, we’ve had a few more guests on than we normally had before, and those have turned out to be really wonderful experiences. But I want to thank you guys as well for taking the time to come on and share your love of horror with us in the audience as well. There will be more of that to come. Well, thank you guys again.

If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend who would be just as interested. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone out there. Happy Thanksgiving. We are two guys in a chainsaw@chainsawhorror.com, patreon.com/chainsaw podcast. Find us in those places. Just let us know what you’re thankful for this year.

And, uh, we have Christmas right around the corner. So if you have ideas for Christmas movies, we are going to get started right away. So, uh, send us those. Uh, we still haven’t decided exactly what we’re going to do. We have a few ideas, but it’s not set in stone yet. So please reach out to us and might as well throw in New Year’s as well.

Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          Our tribute episode to the late, great Tony Todd – actor extraordinaire, and an absolute gem every time he pops up in a horror movie. We covered Candyman already, so instead we’re hitting up the very first horror film to be graced with his deep voice, striking looks and undeniable charisma – the 1990 Tom Savini-directed remake of Romero’s Night of the Living Dead.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptNight of the Living Dead (1990)

Episode 416, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Craig. Tony Todd died recently.

Craig: I know. Isn’t that such a bummer and like it comes out of nowhere like what right he wasn’t even that old What do you I think he he was 69,70?

Todd: Yeah, I don’t know what too old is nowadays I think we’ve we’ve like talked about people who are about to turn 90 and we’ve been like, oh they were so young Yeah, I know.

I realize standards have changed but Yeah, 69 still feels a little too young, because my parents are still alive and they’re older than that, so that’s, that’s my judgment, frame of reference, I suppose. I think I was surprised he was even that old, because he, the man hasn’t aged, to look at him, he just has always been this striking, good looking guy, he’s been, he was working up to the very end, and he’s just been in everything, like his guy’s been all over the place.

Yeah. And, uh, I just expected to keep seeing him at places. So, uh, it really sucks.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, it’s a bummer. Obviously, I think his most well known role is Candyman, of course. But he has been in a bazillion things. Not just in film, but also on stage and in television, voice acting, video games. God,

Todd: that voice.

The

Craig: voice!

Todd: Yeah, Jesus, Jesus, that voice. I mean, it’s so recognizable to, you know, I mean, he’s got that it’s like James Earl Jones with an edge,

Craig: you know, it’s a silky bass voice. Yeah, it’s just a gift. And he also has a, Very distinct look when I heard that he passed away. Immediately I thought, we have to do something, like, but we’ve already done Candyman.

Like, that would, that would be the obvious thing to do. Of

Todd: course, yeah.

Craig: But I remembered that he had starred in The 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead.

Clip: Hmm.

Craig: And what I remembered about that movie was that I liked it. So, I thought, let’s, let’s look at it. I didn’t realize that this was his first horror role.

I only learned that yesterday.

Todd: Yeah, that surprised me too. I was excited that you brought it up, because I have, this has been on my list for ages, like for decades, and I never did sit down and watch it, so I was really looking forward to seeing this remake. I grew up watching the, I mean, we did a whole episode in the original that was almost two hours long, I think.

I think we, I don’t remember why we did it or when we did it, I think it was on occasion of something. Maybe it was George Romero’s death, I don’t know. I don’t remember. Or maybe we’re just in the mood to do Night of the Living Dead. But, uh, in any case, we talked extensively about that movie. Because there’s a lot to talk about when it comes to the original.

And I grew up watching it. All the time. I mean, it was, because it was in the public domain, it was everywhere. You could catch it on TV, late at night, on On any given channel, at least once a month, probably. Especially around Halloween time, they’d ramp that up. You could go to the dollar store, you know, where they had VHS tapes.

It was usually one of the ten that they had to offer there. I was obsessed with the movie, I watched it a lot. I think it was, it was one of my very first experiences with a scene that was so shocking, that it really disturbed me for days. And that is, you know, towards the end. Oh, by the way, spoiler alert, if you haven’t seen Night of the Living Dead, we’re gonna be talking about Night Both of them.

But if you haven’t, you might, you’re probably coming at this podcast from a different angle than most. But, but what I’m saying is, um, that scene at the very end of the original where the girl ends up coming back to life and killing her parents. Yeah. That was, as a kid, that was utterly shocking to me. And so this movie came out of that fact that the original was immediately slipped into public domain.

I mean, Romero had issues, I think, with his distributors from the start. And then because of the stupid copyright laws of the time that said that in order for your film to be copyrighted, there has to be a literal copyright notice, or it doesn’t count. Which is kind of insane. When they did an update of the title screen, I believe it was, someone neglected to put the copyright notice in.

And so, uh, years later, this is kind of his attempt to make back some money on a movie that was wildly popular and made a lot of money for somebody, but not Romero and his investors.

Craig: Right, and he said that somebody was going to remake it. So, like he wanted me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody’s gonna remake it.

And, and he tried to involve people who were involved in the original production so that they would get a little bit, you know, like a little piece of it or whatever.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: It’s fascinating to me. The whole movie is fascinating to me. Obviously, I know, There are some behind the scenes. That are even our patrons don’t know.

Like we’re not giving them access to our texts or anything, but I texted you while I was watching this. And I was like, we made the right choice. Tony Todd is amazing in this. I think he’s so fantastic. He’s great. Obviously we are going to compare it. To the original and I’m so surprised honestly, I had seen this movie before but I didn’t remember much about it and I certainly hadn’t like researched it and and so Reading things about it.

I was surprised that it was kind of Panned when it came out. There was like a mediocre response to it. Yeah. That kind of surprises me, Todd, because I think that this is a great remake. It pays tribute to the original and does a lot of things that the original does, but it also does some new things. Like it’s, it’s still its own thing.

I was shocked to see, you know, your guy, Roger Ebert. He didn’t like it. No.

Todd: He

Craig: didn’t. He said, what was the point?

Todd: Yeah. I totally disagree. I don’t disagree with you. I think this movie is just fine. It is fine. It has some great acting in it. It actually has some not so good acting in it as well. The effects, I was kind of surprised at how little gore there was.

I mean, there was gore, there was some shocking things in there, but I expected to see a lot more with Tom Savini in control. Right, b Tom Savini, I guess, was Asked by Romero to come in and and yeah, you read what I read, right? Like he basically was they all decided that well in order to pay proper homage to the original We’re not gonna make it a big splatter fest because the original Wasn’t

Craig: but that’s not entirely true either because They filmed a lot more gory stuff that they ended up having to cut for rating.

Because when it went through the MPAA the first time, it was, got rated X.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Because of those gory scenes and they had to cut that down. Yeah, what do you believe? I don’t know,

Clip: actually.

Craig: Right. Right, actually the, the gory stuff is one of the scenes. Several things that makes it different and that has to do with budget, too I I don’t remember what the budget was for this one I know that I wrote it down somewhere, but

Todd: it was a four and a half million dollar budget I believe and it made about five and a half or six at the box office So it made money but just barely over its budget essentially by hollywood standards.

So, um, right Yeah, it’s still it’s a low budget production I think a four and a four and a half million dollar production is a low budget in 1990

Craig: Sure Heh, I just went on YouTube and searched Night of the Living Dead 1990 documentary. Oh, did you find one? There are several of them, and I watched one, I chose the one that was like 20 minutes, because I didn’t want to watch

Clip: hours of it.

Craig: But there’s actually even, I looked at something on YouTube, there is well over an hour of just, it seems like, Behind the scenes footage without commentary, it seems. It’s just like, like an hour of behind the scenes footage.

Clip: Hmm.

Craig: You see how they do the effects, and they talk about the effects and what they were trying to do, and it, it actually is.

Like, there’s blood splattering everywhere. Like, there’s, at some point, it’s zombies. They never call them zombies because they never call them zombies in these movies, but I’m going to call them zombies. This one zombie comes in, he’s very thin. You can kind of see his ribcage, but you can see his ribcage because he’s Shirtless.

Todd: Mmm, yeah.

Craig: And apparently that this was the first time that you had ever seen anybody get shot. I mean, according to this documentary, I watched that, I don’t know. With no shirt on. So they, they had to like build. Like skeleton, like ribs and things and stuff. Yeah, around, around his body. Like a, like a, a plastic thing around his body to make it appear like it was his body and then the squib.

Could explode out of it.

Todd: Gotcha.

Craig: And the effects in this are great. And you mentioned, but we must draw attention to the fact that this is directed by Tom Savini, one of the most reputable and respected special effects guys in the industry, period. Yeah. But this is his directorial debut, correct?

Todd: Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. And he said it was a nightmare. Yeah. He didn’t enjoy the experience because he was constantly being meddled with during production, right? He got, he said about 40 percent of his original vision made it up on screen and the rest of it He said because George Romero wasn’t around to go to bat for him, I guess It was the producers who all had so many opinions and forced him to do things he didn’t want to do Yeah, that’s such a bummer.

Yeah, did you hear more detail about that in the documentary? No, not really You It makes me wonder what he

Craig: wanted to do because the things that he did do though. There aren’t a ton of differences. I don’t know if this was him or if it was the studio, but it’s very much like the first one in the documentary that I watched, I did read that he wanted.

Kind of cast some characters so that they would be reminiscent of the characters that you remembered in the first movie, like specifically the one that when he was saying that the ones that they showed were the basement dads. They’re very similar.

Todd: Yeah, they look similar. They act. Almost exactly the same.

Right. I have to say, I This is why I felt the movie I felt the movie was a little uneven, because I felt the times when they were trying especially hard to make it reminiscent of the original, were some of the weaker moments of the movie. And I thought that the basement dad and the mom thing was pretty weak.

I did not think that that mom’s acting was good at all. That was just Embarrassingly bad and every time it comes to the dad it gets very Melodramatic and I don’t know, you know, you could argue the original was quite melodramatic as well But it was but somehow it worked in a black and white B movie Whereas for me in this update Especially seeing some of the good stuff that was happening with Tony Todd’s character, some of the more interesting, more modern stuff that was happening with Barbara, which threw me for a loop.

Yes. It just, it just felt like out of place to have this melodramatic Moments with this guy and I mean don’t get me wrong this I liked this bit about the original like I told you this was The thing that frustrated me as a kid like why won’t this guy get along with everybody? Why is he so selfish and then to see the parents get there and the way they do in that movie at the hands of You know their own daughter which comes out of left field because I think by that point in the original movie We’ve almost kind of forgotten that she’s still down there, you know, and we also don’t really Understand that people We’ll come back to life quickly after they’re dead, you know, I think it’s the I might be wrong about this But I think it’s the first time and and only time it happens to one of the main characters in the movie, right?

Yeah, the ones in the house anyway So, you know all of that was very impactful to me and I and this guy’s performance like I said was almost Second for second, beat by beat, line by line, the same as that guy’s in the old movie. I think it worked a lot better played up against Barbara screaming hysterically, like the stereotypical screaming hysterical woman who’s pretty much useless for most of it, which is a little eye rolling, you know.

But again, it kind of fits with the time, the way movies were. Provides a nice counterpoint to the very strong and capable main character who happens to be black and there’s some racial tension there. The stew, I think, worked a lot better for me in the original, whereas it just felt very uneven to me with this one.

And although I recognized it as being homage to the original, and I like that aspect of the original, I just didn’t think it worked in this mix. And I would have liked to have seen it be a little more realistic, you know, in that sense, that part of it.

Craig: Gosh, I just felt. Entirely differently. I was ready to say to you, like, I think this is a great remake.

And maybe I already did say this. I think I already did say that because you said it. I get what you’re saying. Like, if you’re going to remake it, remake it. I love the things when. It’s what I remember from the original, and it’s close to it, like, if you’re gonna do it, like, really do it. Yeah. And I feel like he does.

Clip: Fair.

Craig: But then he also does other things, like, the, the gore is updated, so I’m, I’m kinda conflicted on that, but I do agree with you, I, I hope we agree, that the new stuff that he does with it. Barbara in the original is insufferable.

Todd: Yeah, she’s super annoying.

Craig: They should have just killed her from the beginning.

Like, like the human people, not even the zombies, like the human people should have just killed her, like they should have just kicked her out. Would

Todd: have been a lot easier for them to Yes, but here he goes completely opposite now Barbara starts kicking ass almost as soon as she arrives

Craig: And and they do the whole thing.

I from the beginning. I’m not gonna try to go through the whole thing I swear like it kind of looks like it’d be black and white for a second and Tom Savini Wanted it to be black and white in the beginning and then for color to like start coming in like Wizard of Oz I guess I don’t know whatever but

Todd: When the zombies open the door.

Craig: It’s like this big moon rising. And then it opens the same way that the last one, or excuse me, the first one does with this brother and sister.

Todd: Yeah. Bill Moseley.

Craig: Right. I didn’t even recognize him because I feel like this is one of those moments. Where I feel like they’re paying such tribute to the original.

Like it’s not exactly the same because he starts taunting her in the car before they even get out. But he is costumed to look so much like the guy from the original, from that classic clip where he comes up from behind the tombs and was like, they’re coming to get you, Barbara. I loved that. It’s great.

It’s great. I

Clip: love

Craig: that and it’s those winks and nods where it’s true to the original that I really appreciate and I appreciate the balance of that against. Then Barbara escapes the same way that she did in the last one where, you know, she gets in the car and puts it in reverse in it and then she runs to a farmhouse and then they’re in a farmhouse forever.

But she is not. Helpless. Yeah. In this movie at all. Correct. In the thing she addresses in this movie what infuriates me that they don’t address in the original. She keeps saying Look at them. They’re slow.

Todd: Yeah

Clip: They’re so slow We could just walk right past him I wouldn’t even have to run I could just walk right past

We have the guns.

Craig: We could just walk the f k out of here and Ben, Ben, who is supposed to be the voice of reason in the first movie and in this movie, but I feel like he’s never really confronted with it. With it in the first movie, but in this movie, he just keeps saying, nah, shut up. No,

Todd: honestly, that’s one of the big differences here between this one and the original.

And the original Ben is pretty much like the only voice of reason. Ben is the leader. He’s in charge. He’s pretty much the only person making all the right moves and doing all the right things and trying to get everybody to pitch in.

Craig: As the audience, you are meant to trust him. You are on his side. Yes. He is the voice of reason.

Todd: 100%. Correct. But in this one, he’s got competition. She is very quickly also able to hold her own, picks up a shotgun, and is shooting away zombies when nobody else is, and is coming up with good ideas, and volunteering to go do things. I mean, it’s not only is it a total 180 from Barbara in the first movie, but it’s like we have two, main stars here where in the original very clearly there was one protagonist that we Trust and are on his side and is kind of leading the way and doing all these things

Craig: I don’t have that actress’s name in front of me.

I don’t know if you do or not

Todd: Patricia Tallman.

Craig: Yeah, she was great Fantastic and and she’s a stunt woman. She was mostly a stunt woman. Mm hmm, and she’s done some acting She was a stuntwoman The iconic witch from Army of Darkness, Army of Darkness, one of them at least.

Todd: Well, she was in Babylon 5 and um, a couple of the Star Trek TV shows, even, even back to Next Generation.

Craig: I thought she was great. Yeah, she was a badass. She was I think that’s one of the things, you know You said Savini said he got about 40 percent of what he wanted I think this is one of the things that he got he didn’t want her to be weak and pathetic He wanted a strong woman in the vein of Sigourney Weaver like that’s specifically what he was thinking of

Todd: He gets it to the point where the statement that the movie ends up making because all of these Night of the Living Dead movies, Day of the Dead or whatever, always make some kind of political statement, seems to be more about gender roles now.

Then, uh, about race and racism, like the first one was. That’s true. And that’s a, that’s a modern update that makes sense, you know? It makes sense to do that. The ending is extended considerably, and I thought it went on a little too long. A little past where I was interested, to be honest. I mean, I was interested to see where it was going.

But I’ve seen The Walking Dead, so I’ve already seen a vision of what people are going to do with zombies once they’re kind of cool with them being around. I thought that was a little overplayed, and it wasn’t as shocking as the ending is in the original. And it doesn’t need to be. I just kind of expected another gut punch, you know, in this one, like I got in the first one.

And, uh, this This really didn’t have it. It just kind of, it just kind of ends. Ha ha ha, you know? I mean, I mean, you want to talk about the ending? We’re, we’re 20 minutes in. I mean, we can jump around, but no. Alright, we’ll save our, we’ll, we will talk about the ending later. Alright, let’s go back to her.

She’s in the house. She’s a badass. Tony Todd, they’re rounding up all the others. There’s a girl and a boy. Poor boyfriend and girlfriend. Yeah. His uncle has the house. You know, after they board up all the windows and doors, they decide their best bet is to try to get the keys to the gas pump, which must be in the house somewhere.

Craig: Oh. You know? I know, I know. Yeah. And all of that is the same that, yeah. You just described both movies accurately.

Todd: Right.

Craig: One of the things that I liked about this movie, but it also made it confusing, and I know I’ve already alluded to it with. The girl that we were just talking about, but sometimes, especially when they first get to the house, zombies come around and Tony Todd just whoops their ass.

Todd: He’s an action hero in this one. What are you

Craig: scared of? He just whooped their ass.

Todd: At one point he’s out on his own, right? I mean, it’s later in the movie, but it’s, and he just, he just plowing through those things. They’re surrounding him and he has no trouble just like taking them out, getting them at the knees, like a football tackler, whacking them around.

And they’re coming up behind him. He just does that whole, like the backwards punch thing with his fist. Like it’s kind of funny.

Craig: There is some part in the movie where he puts his hand up by Barbra’s face, his hands are

Todd: huge. Yeah, they are

Clip: huge.

Todd: I mean, he’s always been a big guy. He’s a tall dude. Yeah, he’s a big guy.

Yeah. He’s six foot five, man.

Craig: He’s very big, but I was talking, I have a friend. I won’t mention him by name cause I don’t want to embarrass him, but he’s a big guy. And I was just talking to him about this. I was like, you’re a big guy, but you don’t really like occupy a big space. Like your hands are small.

I feel like, no, no, no, no, no. I feel like Tony taught us like that. I feel like with men, especially when you’re that big. That can be threatening and intimidating. You’re a tall guy, Todd. I don’t know.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Do you understand what I’m saying? Like

Todd: Yeah, some people are tall and imposing. And other people are just tall.

And I always try my best to not, you know, look down on people and things. To the point where my posture’s bad, actually. I I, uh, I ruined my posture when I lived in Japan, and I was surrounded by a lot of people who were considerably shorter than I was, and I thought that if I just bent over a little bit more, that it would somehow put them more at ease with me.

Instead, it just made me stoop over.

Craig: Yeah, there’s definitely, you know, something about physicality, but I, I just feel like Tony Todd, I know he’s a big guy. He’s an imposing guy. And his voice is, you know, it’s just amazing. And it could be anything. It could be scary. It could be, I’m just saying like, he can be a zombie ass kicker.

Yes, yes, yes. But also not scary. Like, Oh, right. When he’s trying to explain things to people and when he’s trying to talk to Barbara, like he can be kind. Yeah. There’s a soft side of him. I mean, for lack of a better word, that, that sounds scary. Stupid, but he’s, he’s not just scary guy. And I, I actually kind of feel like he is a little bit more nuanced than the guy in the original.

The guy in the original gets really angry in the end. Yeah. But wouldn’t you, of

Todd: course, of course, you’re right. I really like this acknowledgement. That the zombies, kind of individually, or even in much smaller groups, are really not that hard to beat. And, that is, we’re almost constantly reminded of that throughout this movie.

And how easily, She keeps saying it! She keeps saying it.

Craig: Then it’s like a joke. It made me mad because she keeps saying it. Like, I appreciate everything that they’re doing. And there are several arguments in the first movie. The argument is, do we hole up in the basement or do we take our chances up here?

Right. And there are arguments for both. I agree. With Ben that it makes more sense to stay up here because if they get in at least we have a way out shot it Running for it, right? That makes more sense to me. You get yourself in the basement. They get in you’re stuck down there, but in this remake there’s a third option that she keeps bringing

Todd: Right.

Like, as

Craig: they’re boarding up, oh, this drove me nuts, too. As they’re boarding up the windows, she’s looking out there, she’s seeing them, she’s like, look at them, they’re super slow, we should just leave, like,

Todd: Right.

Craig: It’s not a big deal, and he’s like, no, we have to stay here. The other thing that makes perfect sense, but that drove me crazy, was that they were all that time that they were boarding up the house, they were drawing.

The zombies to them

Todd: right there make it noise, you know, we

Craig: should do yeah Let’s let’s make a lot of really loud noise This is your fault

Todd: Come to think of it It does make Ben turn out look to be like the guy with a little worse judgment, doesn’t it in a way? Cuz he’s obsessed with I think so hoarding everything up.

Well it even hammers the point home comedically when she finally gets out toward the end when she’s out there and She’s just walking around and she’s looking at the zombies and almost chuckling and she just kind of Pushes one or two back right and laughs turns her back on a couple of them as well.

She Is fine. Yeah. Like

Craig: it’s like, yeah. She’s basically surrounded by them and not a big, and she doesn’t even give a shit. She’s like, yeah, this ,

Clip: it’s not a big deal.

Craig: Yep. I don’t know. She has mommy issues. I don’t even remember what that’s all about, but I feel like there’s one zombie that’s like holding a baby doll.

Oh yeah. And she. That’s the one she

Todd: pushes around.

Craig: Like with the shotgun, with the barrel of the shotgun, she keeps like pushing it around and it just won’t go away. Like it’s not a threat. It’s just annoying. And she already has mommy issues anyway. So she just blows his head off. I really did. very much enjoyed this movie, but it was, it was that specifically that really bothered me.

Like, they could have just left at any given time. And some of the things that frustrated me are, are things that they just kept from the original. Like, That whole ordeal, where they have to get the keys. Yeah. They have to get the keys, and then they have to get to the truck, and then they have to get to the gas tank, and then they’re And that idiot’s

Todd: at the gas tank And he has the wrong keys Idiot!

So he decides to shoot the gas tank like a dumb moron, which explodes. Oh my god, what an idiot. That’s the

Craig: top. Oh my god. I liked that dumb kid until he was dumb and shot the gas tank. Yeah. His girlfriend was not particularly a good actor. Well she was, she was

Todd: the screaming woman in this, in this one. Like she didn’t have much more to do than to walk around and be freaking out all the time.

I

Craig: feel like in the original she was kinda cool.

Todd: Yeah, there definitely became a point where I was like, Oh, so that’s what they did. They just reversed these two roles kind of, I mean, not exactly because nobody was as big of a badass as, as Barbara ended up being in, in this one, but, uh,

Craig: true.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: The basement family felt to me a little bit less believable this time around.

Yes. It was easier. It was easier for me to believe. That a woman would just follow her husband’s directive. I mean, the wife in the first one certainly questions it. It was more difficult for me to believe. You know, I feel like they tried to make the wife in this one a little bit more Like she stood up for herself a little bit more.

A little bit. I don’t know, whatever.

Todd: She was toothless though.

Craig: But it was basically the same.

Todd: Yeah.

Clip: We’re going up. We’ve got to get help for Sarah. I’m not opening that door, Helen, and neither are you. And if you try, so help me out. You Is your daughter lying there? We have got to get her to a doctor. There’s no doctors upstairs, Helen, and there’s no way out of here.

Craig: That whole part was basically the same. One of the things that bothered me about that whole part was, and I guess, I don’t know, maybe it was the same in the original, I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with filming laws, but their little girl who is dressed like a China doll is a woman. I don’t know.

She’s a woman.

Todd: Yeah, she’s not a girl at all.

Craig: Why is there a full grown woman in, like, bobby socks?

Todd: It’s like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz all over again, yeah.

Craig: It’s crazy. Other than that, I mean that, that mostly ends up the same way as it does in the original. I’m trying to think of ways that it doesn’t.

Differs because I, I don’t know how else to approach it because come on guys, you, you surely seen night of the living dead. It is a pretty faithful remake of the original. Like there are some differences, especially in the way that it ends, which we’re obviously going to get to, but to go through it. Plot point by plot point would be redundant.

Todd: I think in today’s age, by the time a person is seeing either the original or this film for the first time, they’ve probably already seen so many other more complicated, more intense zombie movies. Fast moving zombies that you know, I don’t even think this movie claims that you know getting bitten by a zombie turns you into one It’s just if you die everything that dies is gonna turn into a zombie because of reasons unknown and and

Craig: Emily the the basement girl got bit.

That’s why she turns into a zombie. Is that the reason though? Yeah Yeah, they specific. I remember they specifically say that she got infected because she was feverish in that In that documentary that I watched, they were talking about, and we’ve talked about this a bazillion times about how horror movies are, they reflect the fears of the time and this came out in 1990, intended or not, this was kind of about the AIDS scare and the mom specifically said, yeah, the mom says she got bit by one of those people.

Oh. And, and, and that Really? So, yes. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. That was a very comp That was a very complicated answer to your very simple

Todd: question. Now I’m way more interested in what you have to say about this. Because, what you learned about this. Because, aside from a reading of that particular line, what else in this movie references the AIDS scare?

Craig: I don’t know. Fear, fear of others, fear of infection, I don’t know.

Let’s just keep talking about the movie. Let’s keep

Todd: talking, I don’t know, let’s talk about the end. Let’s go to the end because it’s so different. Because in the first one, you know, there’s definitely this racial tension. Yeah. And, you know, we’ve said it before in the previous episode, it’s been said a million times that Romero was quite progressive and even casting a black man as a lead in this.

Craig: But may I interrupt you? To, just to say that it’s been a while since I’ve watched the original, and there certainly is, there certainly is racial tension, but this is a small group of people, and while that certainly plays a role, it, it, it, it feels It’s not an overarching theme. Right. I agree, but Within the microcosm of these people, and I feel the same way here.

Yes. Yes. I feel the same way here in this 19, Tony Todd is Black. He’s a big Black guy. He just is, but the character, the character of Ben was not even written for a Black man, like Romero just decided. I don’t even remember why he just decided, or no, I think that guy, the, the original guy came in and auditioned He just so good

Todd: Yeah, that was it.

Yeah, he

Craig: was just so good. He was like, okay.

Todd: I know. I know all this. And then Romero goes on to claim that it never even crossed his mind, which has to be not completely true. It can’t be entirely true. Because if so, the very ending of the film would have just been this huge coincidence, the obvious reading of it, which is, you know, he’s the only one who survives.

He gets up, he starts to walk out of the house, and then he just gets mistaken by a zombie by the police officers and shot. And then we get all these photographs of him being dragged out and pulled out that are very reminiscent of the old photos of lynchings, you know, that occurred back then. Yeah. And this movie has a montage of photographs at the end, but it just seems to be something that They thought they needed to include, because there were also photos in the first one.

Because there’s no thematic element to that. Unless, unless it all just went way over my head. I just saw these still close up photos of them dragging all the random zombies out. Interspersed with every sec every second photo is a close up on her eyes. I was like, what? So then I thought, well that’s an odd way for the movie to end.

But it doesn’t end there. It keeps on going. To where she’s at this like. Sort of encampment, where all these good old boy, for lack of a better term, like stereotypical redneck jerks, who are out there drinking beer and having a barbecue and throwing a big making a big old party out of all this. It’s very bro heavy type attitude there.

And they almost shoot her. Mistaking her for a zombie, but that seems weird because then when they realize she’s not a zombie, they start leering at her. Yeah. And I almost think, God, is she in trouble? That made me very nervous. But then they just walk off. I’m just, I was so confused by how this ending played out that I got this general sense that she’s a woman in a man’s world who was smarter than all of them.

But. The point that was so clear and crystal at the very end of the last movie and that shock value that it had, there’s nothing here. If he’s trying to make a point, and I think he kinda is, it’s, it feels sort of half assed, and then, and then the movie’s done.

Craig: The original ending is more shocking for sure, and I think that There, whether he says he intended it or not, I think there are clearly racial undertones going on there.

Like had that been either a white woman or a white man who had walked out of that house, would they have shot him or them, you know, sight unseen, you know, right. This one I think kind of loses. I almost feel like that’s one of the things that I like about night of the living dead. Overall, as I feel like it has, it makes that statement.

Yeah, I, I, I can’t believe that Romero didn’t, if he didn’t intend it and you know, I teach literature, so I talk about this stuff all the time, you know, we all interpret things differently and you know, our interpretations are valid. I just, I find it difficult to believe that that was it. On his mind. I don’t know why he denied it

Todd: for so long, but

Craig: I think that what Savini.

Wanted to do, and I respect it, he wanted to make a statement about women, that women can take care of themselves. Yeah, I think you’re right. And that they’re smart, and you should listen to them, you big dummy. Because in this movie, one of the other changes is that Ben, Ends up going down into the cellar, like the place that he said, don’t go down there.

Don’t go down there. We can’t go down there. We can’t go down there. And that’s where he ends up trying to hold himself up. I’m still not really entirely clear about what happens down there. Right? Cause he seems to be, I mean, and I, isn’t the daughter already dead? Don’t they kill her at some point? Yeah.

The basement daughter in her sock kills. Both her parents?

Todd: I know she kills them all. No, she doesn’t kill her dad. Her dad gets killed by Barbara. That’s a big change.

Craig: Oh boy, we should talk about that.

Todd: Yeah. Okay,

Craig: so basement dad is a huge dick.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But, you know. People are dicks. Whatever. I actually felt like he was he was less aggressive.

I kind of feel like base basement. Dad was more physically violent in the first movie. I think you’re right. And in this one, he’s he’s a dick. He’s for sure a dick and they keep threatening each other. It’s hilarious to me that they’re like, uh, Yeah. If you don’t come down here right now, I’m gonna lock it and I’m never gonna let you in and, and, and then Tony Todd’s like, like, they’re just fighting, like, it’s a little bit ridiculous, but Basement Dad, I don’t remember, I think he dies in the first one, but in this one he does not die from the

Todd: zombie apocalypse.

And Barbara leaves. Barbara ends up at some encampment where, you know, she sees all these people hanging out. They’re even playing with zombies. They’ve got them, like, fighting against each other in a fence and all that. It’s actually very Walking Dead in a way. It feels like they’ve stumbled into one of those, like, the governor’s place in Walking Dead or something like that.

Anyway, then she wanders back to the house where the guys have already gone in there and seemingly have been ransacking it and going through it. But the dad pops out from around the corner in the kitchen and goes, Oh, hey, you came back and she raises her gun and shoots him right above the eyes and then turns around to the to the guys behind him and says

Craig: another one for the fire and that’s what the sheriff says about Ben when they shoot Ben

Todd: in the first one.

Yeah,

Craig: another one for the fire. There’s another line That is said I think also by the sheriff something like yeah, they’re dead. They’re all messed up

Clip: It’s

Craig: a silly but classic line from the original and the guy that plays the sheriff in this movie was Johnny the brother in the original nice

Clip: God, I don’t know, I don’t know if we’ve done this movie, it’s credit, and, and, we probably haven’t done

Todd: Tony Todd, his credit?

Yeah. Yeah, Tony Todd’s great in this, his acting is fantastic. I think

Craig: he’s fantastic. He

Todd: clearly proved himself as a horror actor in this, because before this, you know, he was doing stage, he was doing some TV. But this seems to be the, a bit of a turning point in his career because it was just a couple years after this he got Offered Candyman and then Candyman is what just blew up for him and really established him as a horror icon Icon.

And he has been in big, I mean, he’s been in big Hollywood blockbuster movies. He was in The Rock. His list is long He was

Craig: pivotal in the Final Destination series. Oh, yeah, he had that

Todd: He’s like the death character, sort of, right? Yeah. In the Final Destination. In fact, I think that his last role will be released next year in the new Final Destination movie that’s scheduled for 2025.

Oh, I didn’t know that. So yeah, he’s working all the way up to here. And I remember him so well, like, every, just, you know, you see a movie and then he just kind of pops out like Hatchet, right? He’s like the voodoo guy there. Yeah. And it’s just like, they knock on a door and suddenly he opens the door and suddenly you’re just like, Heh.

Hell yeah. It’s Tony, Todd .

Craig: That beca, I feel like that became his thing and I feel like Final Destination made that his thing. Like, we are gonna have a cameo and we’re going to make you really excited about it. And we’re gonna build it up. Build it up, build it up. It’s Tony Todd. Yeah.

It’s so great. Fantastic. And again, you know, obviously we’re a horror podcast and we appreciate him from those things, but he’s done everything, everything. He is a talented actor. And I think that he is also just one of those people who’s very gifted.

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: Genetically, like he’s big and he’s handsome, but also he has a very unique Look, so he can look mysterious.

There are also times when he’s played roles. I can’t remember specifically, but he has played roles where he’s been gentle. Like, I feel like I remember him in scrubs at some point, right? Like, like where he’s, he’s kind, you know, and, and comforting to people and he can do that. I believe he can do anything and the voice to be gifted with an.

Instrument like that is amazing and he was, you know, I’ll remember him from so many things. I, I, I think Candyman is his legacy, but we have reviewed so many movies that he’s popped up in. Yeah. He was in that like jail movie with all the horror icons. Oh God. Ultimately ended up not liking he was in one of the wish master movies, but he would just pop up all the time And it was always such Again, every time he would probably

Todd: Love seeing him such a cool guy and apparently, you know If you were fortunate enough to be face to face with them, he was extremely cool to the fans

Craig: read that too Just like super super Nice and that’s so nice to hear about people.

Tony. Todd was just 70 and it feels like I understand that that’s a good life. You make it that far That’s a good luck that these days it also feels like too soon. Yeah too soon. Yeah, it’s too bad. I Have been a huge fan. I remain a huge fan the man left behind A legacy. He really did. This

Todd: guy will be remembered.

He will. It’s, it’s,

Craig: it’s impressive.

Todd: And then, you know, it was nice to be able to, I mean, we could have reviewed Candyman if we hadn’t already done it, but I actually think it was kind of nice to review his breakthrough horror film. You know, first horror movie was in. I loved this! Yeah! This was good. I

Craig: thought it was fantastic.

I think you should watch it. It’s not amazing. It’s not groundbreaking.

Todd: I really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, and I don’t want to give you the wrong impression either. I didn’t hate it at all. I just thought it was fine. Fair. There were a lot of elements I liked about it.

Craig: To be fair, I Googled, was this made for TV?

Todd: Cause

Craig: it felt a little made for TV. Yeah,

Todd: right. But it wasn’t. God, it just would have been so awesome to see what Savini’s original, like, I know. I wonder what ideas he had for this. But you know who was the, one of the producers behind this was Manaheim Golan, you know, he was one of the canon guys. Golan and Globus, remember?

All the canon films that were going through the 80s and they were just spending money left and right and then when their whole production thing just kind of got sunk under, under dollars I think he went over to work for I don’t remember, was it Columbia? Who produced this film? Was it Columbia? Was it Columbia?

Uh, he became an executive big executive there and he notoriously Had lots of strong opinions, many of them were really dumb. Ha ha ha ha ha! As can be seen by a lot of the canon output. Highly entertaining stuff! Don’t get me wrong, I actually really love the canon movies. For what they are, but Me too.

Very few of them are, you know, you’d consider high art. And I feel like Savini would have brought some real high art to this if he had been given full reign. So, kind of a shame to see that, that, that he was reigned in a little bit like that. But, uh, we still ended up with a fine movie. I liked it.

Hopefully made, made some money back for Romero and his guys as well. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. We are coming up toward the end of the year right now, so if you have requests for us to do holiday movies, It is not too late.

We have not completely nailed down our list of holiday movies for next month. So go ahead and just find us online wherever we are. You can get to our website at ChainsawHorror. com. You can leave us a comment or message there. You can click on the Speak to Us button at the very top. And while I’m bringing that up, I have a message for us, Craig.

Do you want to hear it?

Johnny B Ghoul: Yeah. To the best horror podcast out there. Todd, Craig, this is Johnny B. Gould. And I had to come on here just to let you guys know how much I enjoy your show. I’ve been listening to you guys since August of 2023 and I’m proud to say that I am almost finished with your entire catalog and I’ve enjoyed every second of it.

It’s fantastic. You guys are funny. You have fun. You guys seem really smart when it comes to doing these movies and you really give movies a chance too. Um, I love listening to a lot of the bad movies that you guys have done just because of how You guys make it. You really seem to enjoy yourselves. It really does show.

I’ve recently become a patron at your Patreon page too, and I have to say that there’s some awesome stuff on there. I’m really enjoying it. So I support you every step of the way. I’m always telling people about this. Your show. And I think it’s great that there’s still people like you out there in the world that enjoy horror.

It’s just really a treat and it’s just, it’s a, it’s a good feeling. So with that being said, again, thank you guys so much. Keep up the good work and take care of yourselves.

Todd: So nice. So nice. And I mean, I got to apologize because, uh, Johnny B. Gould here actually sent us that a little while ago. But, uh, with the holidays and stuff coming up, it took us a little while to be able to get to put it up here on the show.

And, uh, he is one of our super fans, Craig. Yeah, I know. He’s really nice. We do a lot of chatting back and forth. He’s

Craig: got a Yeah,

Todd: he’s got a great voice. He should come on the show. It’d be fun. Oh, we’ll definitely get him on the show. Maybe for a Christmas episode. Yeah! He’s got his own podcast, too. We can, um, shout out.

It’s called Two Crippled Zombies, and they have been at it previously under the name Chainsaw Enema, I believe, and got a good thirty or so shows under their belt, and then decided to retool things, and have already put out a few episodes under the new name and new concept. So, uh, you guys should go check it out.

Those guys have a nice, uh, leisurely discussion about horror movies that’s not too dissimilar to our own. You could similarly leave us a message if you go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com, and you click on the Speak To Us link up at the top, you will get thrown to a site where you can just click a button, and uh, you don’t need any special software or anything, you can just leave us a voice message and that’ll go straight to us.

And if you leave us your email address up there, we can also respond directly to it. We’ll put you on the show, uh, we’ll thank you so much, just like we thank, uh, you. Johnny B. Gould here for listening and for being a longtime fan and patron. Yeah. If you’d like to get in on the patron action as well, go to patreon.

com slash chainsaw podcast. Boy, we really did a number of things really special for October. We have minisodes, we have a lot of discussion, we have that book club going along that started out as a Christopher Pike book club and seems to have grown into a mutant zombie of its own. We’re doing what, V. C.

Andrews and frickin R. L. Stine? Yeah,

Craig: for now, for now, but we’re just, we’re expanding. Yeah!

Todd: We’re broadening our horizons. That’s right. But it, no matter what it is, it’s what people want and it’s fun and we’re all having a blast. And we’re making really good friends along the way, so, uh Yeah. If that sounds appealing to you, it’s just five bucks a month to get in on that and, uh, support the show and become part of the team.

Just check it out, patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Also, like I said, uh, we do need those suggestions for your holiday horror movie, so find us there. Find us just by Googling. You can find our Facebook page, our, uh, Twitter feed, whatever. Just leave us a message at any one of those places and, uh, let us know what your idea is for our Holiday Horror Movie Marathon coming up in December.

Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

View Details

           This week, we pay tribute to the legendary Kris Kristofferson by reviewing the 1998 cult superhero classic, Blade. Join us as we explore Kristofferson’s impactful role, dissect the film’s iconic action scenes, and discuss its place as a precursor to the modern Marvel era.

In This Episode:

– A heartfelt tribute to Kris Kristofferson, his versatile career, and lasting impact on film and music.
– Detailed analysis of Blade (1998), revisiting its groundbreaking effects and martial arts choreography.
– Trivia and behind-the-scenes insights into the making of Blade.
– Our personal reflections on Kristofferson’s role as Whistler and the film’s legacy.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell for more horror movie reviews and discussions! Share your favorite Kris Kristofferson moments with us in the comments below.

Connect with Us: Follow 2 Guys and a Chainsaw on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram for updates on upcoming episodes and more. For exclusive mini-sodes and behind-the-scenes content, join our Patreon family at Patreon.com/ChainsawPodcast.

Blade1998 #KrisKristofferson #MovieReview #HorrorPodcast #2GuysAndAChainsaw #MarvelMovies #CultClassics #ActionMovies #TributeEpisode

Share your thoughts and favorite scenes from Blade (1998) in the comments below! We love hearing from all of you!

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptBlade (1998)Episode 415, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we come to that time where we do a tribute episode, and, you know, this is something that I kind of learned a little later. I don’t know how I find out when. People die. I guess it comes across my social media or it comes across the news probably and I think for me I think it was like a big news thing like cnn or new york times It was doing a retrospective about Kris Kristofferson who actually died late september So now that we’re done with all of our halloween holiday stuff before we kick off into Christmas and it becomes a new year I did want to revisit him because he’s another one of those actors that for me has just kind of Been around and he pops up in all kinds of places.

And I also knew he was a country singer and things like that. Just, he’s just been a guy who’s kind of always been there. You know, not at the forefront of my mind by any means. Like, Oh, there he is again. And I didn’t know that much about him. And I thought this would be kind of a fun opportunity to see if he had done any horror movies so that we could talk about them.

And I could also learn a little bit more about him myself. And so here we are doing a tribute episode for Kris Kristofferson. And the episode that we settled on was 1998’s Blade. A movie that I knew we were going to get to eventually. So we might as well do it now. He has a fairly prominent role in this one.

And I’m glad we came to Blade because, uh, I have not seen Blade, I think, since it came out. I remember renting this with buddies and thinking it was pretty cool. And I think I saw the sequel as well. I’m really fuzzy on that. And then I just kind of left it. So, uh, this is going to be my first time revisiting it since the nineties.

How about you, Craig?

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. I saw it when it came out, I guess. And I think I’ve seen both the sequels, but it’s been a really long time. You know, I was reminded about it recently. You know, this was Marvel maybe had done like one other or a couple other superhero movies, but. They hadn’t really taken off yet and they had just done, Oh, one of the Batman sequels, the notoriously bad one, I think with George Clooney and the bat nipples had come out just right before this, you know, the entertainment industry just kind of announced, you know, like the, the superhero movie genre is dead.

Like that, that Batman movie with the bat nipples killed it. Everyone got a lot less enthusiastic after that one. Yeah. But then this came out and it did. pretty well and it spawned some sequels that I think the second one did okay and I think Wesley Snipes thought that the second one was the best one. I honestly don’t remember.

I, I do remember that by the time the third one rolled around, I don’t know if Wesley Snipes was upset with the director or what, but I read that he was just a nightmare on set. Like he wouldn’t even like open his eyes, like in, like in shots and scenes, like he wouldn’t open his eyes. I don’t know. My point though, was that this kind of is the, like Marvel is so huge now.

In an annoying way, frankly. Like, I’m over it. I get it. I’m so over it. I get why those movies are fun and exciting and, you know, pre COVID when I still went to movie theaters, which I don’t really do anymore. They’re fun to watch on the big screen, but we just got so oversaturated with them. Yeah. I’m done.

Like, give me a f ing break from these videos. F ing superhero movies.

Todd: It’s too much to keep track of, you know? I know. I remember when there was like a new one a year, or maybe two a year, and they, they interconnected with each other, and that was kind of exciting, and you’d wait for the end credit thing to see what was coming next, and then, you know, we knew it was all gonna culminate in like that one Avenge you know, those three Avengers movies, right?

Yeah. And it was fun to follow those interlocking stories and all that, but now I don’t know, man. There are TV series, there’s, uh, 15 movies a year. It seems like it’s too much to fill my brain with, and it’s just another one of those cases, in my opinion, of just like, too much of a good thing, suddenly you don’t like it anymore.

Right. It all becomes mush, and it’s not special. That’s true. I think they’ve done the same thing with the Star Wars franchise, to be honest. But

Craig: that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s true as well. I mean, it’s so ubiquitous that it almost can’t be avoided. Like I’m still watching stuff, you know, like I’m watching Agatha all along now, which is a Marvel properties, spin off of Scarlet or WandaVision with the Scarlet Witch and like, and I’m not saying that some of those movies aren’t good.

They are like, I do enjoy them. Some of them are really funny. The funnier ones. I prefer those. It’s just so much anyway, that’s. Getting off topic, the point is Blade was kind of a precursor to this era. Yeah. And it seems very much in keeping with this era even though it also reeks of the 90s. It does. It’s very Matrix.

It’s very Yes. Charlie’s Angels. fascinated by really fast martial arts to like industrial techno music for a minute. Yes.

Todd: And like bullet time and all these cool new effects you could do with CGI, which, you know, could, could really enhance the action and make things exciting. It’s hard to believe I’ve thought for a minute, okay, this was definitely very inspired by the matrix, but actually this came out a year.

Matrix did so it almost seems like this movie may have inspired some of the action in the matrix as well

Craig: The thing that I read and of course, who knows you read things on the internet Who knows if they’re true or not, but people, you know associated the the two movies But really they were both written and in production Approximately at the same time.

Right. So it’s unlikely that they had any impact on each other at all.

Todd: Sure. They just captured the way Hollywood was going, or the zeitgeist. Exactly.

Craig: That’s what I was going to say. There were lots of those movies. Really, The Matrix, people, you know, talk about it was so innovative, it was such a big thing.

And it was, but there was a lot of that just because the technology was developing. And so you were seeing these similar effects. And similar shooting styles in a lot of movies, the Matrix just happened to be one of the better of them. And this movie, I wasn’t super excited to go back to it, frankly. Like I, I, it’s not that I remember disliking it.

I just had in my head, I have a feeling this will not have aged well. And ultimately I think I’m right, like, the action sequences are fun, if you’re like down for that, if you’re in the mood for it, and there are a lot of them. I was a little bit shocked at the effects, the digital effects, like the CGI is crazy, like, not good.

Todd: It’s pretty bad. I mean we kind of forget how bad it was back then because back then this stuff Even though by net by today’s standards, it’s bad was blowing us away because we were seeing it all kind of for the first time

Craig: Yeah, and I’m not as I’m not as much of a gamer as you are But I feel like these looked like video game special effects Like I like I felt like I was playing like a first person Like horror shooter

Todd: make no mistake video games were still very polygony when this came out like,

Craig: you know, they

Todd: were still right, right, right By today’s standards.

No, you’re right. What video games are today is kind of what this looks like Well, you know go back a few years, but it’s what this looks like right now Yeah somewhere in between and I think another point you’re trying to make as well You you know, you were talking about marvel. This is one of the first movies to really go super dark With comic book characters, it certainly wasn’t the first Okay, obviously we had the Tim Burton Batman, which I think you could credit with that and that was like at 89 I think 88 89 and then at some point the crow came along Before this in the early to mid 90s because we were all in kind of about the crow in high school But they were just starting to like make comic book movies that were not just being taken seriously But also we’re gonna go for grit And violence and put gore in there and very high stakes and really terrifying villains.

It’s no coincidence, obviously, that David Goyer, who wrote the screenplay for this, and was really responsible for developing this property, actually changing it from the comic book. This was based on a comic book, but the comic book character apparently was very different. They deliberately updated the comic book character for the nineties for this movie.

Subsequently, then. The comic book started to take the cue from the movie and change its tone and direction. I was surprised actually to learn that Blade was a character that was created for the Tomb of Dracula comic book series in the 70s.

Craig: And the history of the comics is, is very interesting. Like, Blade was just a minor character.

I won’t remember it well enough. to recount it all. But if that’s something that you’re interested in, you should look into it. It’s, it’s very easy to research, and it is really interesting. Um, a minor character, really. Early on, anyway. Like, I think that maybe he had had a, like, one ten issue run. Yeah, he was introduced in something else.

But he did, I think he just had, like, before the movie was made, he had only been in like, one run of his own, like, Blade thing. Series or whatever.

Todd: Right.

Craig: All very interesting and you know Wesley Snipes who plays Blade was looking into doing a like a superhero Role, but he was really pushing hard for Black Panther And again, this is you know in the early 90s that he’s pushing for this and what I don’t you know, whatever happened I don’t know what happened that that didn’t come about but this black half breed vampire character He landed.

What I’ll say about it is is that I, I think that this movie and his character are iconic. I don’t know that in the pantheon of comic book movies and comic book heroes that he’s near the top, but people know about this character. I mean, Wesley Snipes just cameoed in. Wolverine and Deadpool. Yeah, I mean, I think there were a million cameos in that movie, but he cameoed as blade So like his character in some earth or some reality multiverse or whatever is still around He’s a cultural entity.

You know, I mean like people know who blade is. Yeah, it’s a big deal

Todd: My mom would know who blade is, you know, even if she hadn’t seen the movies She would have an idea right of what this is. Sure Yeah, and it’s important to point out because it’s very current just last month in October They officially pretty much pulled.

There has been a new blade sort of reboot that has been in development hell for like a decade. They’ve announced he’s going to be a part of the, of the universe. I think like in 2020, they were going to bring him into the Marvel universe again, but he’s going to be played by a different actor and then just kind of went through all these things and a movie had been announced a couple of years ago and it just got pulled.

Off the list in October and it seems like that’s just dead. So, you know, it’s kind of interesting we’re doing it now. We just happen to be doing this now as well. You know, a couple other things I just wanted to say about it real quick before we start getting into the story. And of course, eventually talk about Chris Kristofferson.

Of course. Who’s also super fascinating. I can’t wait to talk about him. But we last revisited a David S. Goyer movie. Just a couple months ago. And that was demonic toys. That was one of his very first screenplays.

Craig: Oh my God. That’s hilarious. I had no idea.

Todd: Crazy. Right?

Craig: What a change,

Todd: right? But he went on from there to do a sequel to the crow city of angels.

So you could see, you can see the trajectory of his writing, right? What he’s interested in.

Craig: He did a couple of the really popular, like, didn’t he do like Batman begins and, and yes, dark night too.

Todd: Oh yeah. Yeah. The first couple of those Batman movies. And before that, I think probably the one that made, that got him some attention.

Although, the script did. It came out the same year, was Dark City. Have you ever seen Dark City?

Craig: No, I remember hearing about it, but I haven’t seen it.

Todd: Dark City is one of those, like, underrated gems. If you remember it, you love it, and you go, Oh my god, why did I forget that movie? It was so good. I think it’s still good today.

But yeah, you’re right. He eat at Dark City, which is amazing. Two Blade movies, actually all three of them. He wrote, he directed, I believe the third one, Guillermo del Toro directed the second one. Gosh, it’s so interesting part in, uh, in, in history. And again, at this point where Marvel was starting to get okay with being dark, Marvel was not yet part of Disney.

Marvel was still making pennies on their properties over these little like little deals that they had in this case with new line. I 25 grand off of blade, even though it went on to make tens of millions of dollars worldwide, but yeah, this movie is. far more violent, for its time especially, than any comic book movie had really dared to be, with maybe the exception of The Crow.

There’s gore, there’s blood everywhere, limbs are coming off, it’s just, it’s pretty intense. And then of course, the martial arts action scenes, which were all the rage.

Craig: I don’t know how, really, to approach the movie, because it’s, one, long, and two, Plot heavy. Is it though? I, I, I say plot heavy. I don’t know that it’s, yeah, the, I, I, I get Maybe not, I just mean it.

Like things are always happening and there’s a lot going on, so I don’t know how detailed we want to get, but basically the whole premise. You get in the very beginning, you get his backstory. This pregnant woman is on a hospital gurney, she’s being wheeled like into surgery or whatever, and you can clearly see that she’s got blood and teeth marks on her neck.

She’s been bitten by a vampire. And she gives birth to a baby, and then presumably, So Blade, because he was like, in utero, and his mother was bitten, like, he’s, he’s a, he’s a half breed.

Todd: So like, he has all of the positive qualities of a vampire. But very few, if any, of the negative qualities, right? So he can handle daylight.

He’s immune to a lot of the sil the silver and all the stuff that they say in this movie that affects vampires doesn’t affect him. But also he’s like super strong and heals right away. And the only thing that he’s really struggling with, he’s trying to keep an addiction to blood at bay. He’s got a serum that has been developed that he has to constantly inject himself with.

So that he doesn’t have the urge to feed off of humans, right? To keep him pure.

Craig: I guess. I didn’t really understand that like so I guess from his infancy to puberty He just lived on the streets I’m not sure we know sometime around puberty And I say that because they specifically say that in the movie.

Whistler, this old guy played by Chris Christopherson, finds him. Now we don’t see any of this. This is an exposition dump later. But grisly old Chris Christopherson finds him.

Todd: As grisly as he could possibly be. He’s playing his grisliest in this one I think. And he’s played some pretty grisly guys. I

Clip: found him when he was 13.

He was living on the streets, feeding off the homeless. His need for blood had taken hold at puberty. I took him for a vampire at first. Almost killed him, too. Then I realized what he was. Blade’s mother was attacked by a vampire while she was pregnant. She died, but he lived. Unfortunately, he’d undergone certain genetic changes.

He can withstand garlic, silver, even sunlight. And he’s got their strength.

Craig: This is one of those things that, that feels like comic book lore. It’s a lot of world building, but in a two, even a two hour movie, which is long to me, even in a two hour movie, you have to do it so quickly that it just seems like a lot of information.

Like,

Todd: what? Yeah.

Craig: What is happening? Like, who are you? Right. Why are you? Adopting vampire children. How did you rehabilitate him again? What is happening? There are like two or three different serums in the movie like there’s a good serum and then there’s also a bad serum and

Todd: That’s true the bad serums blue and others serums red I will say this about the movie and it’s a positive and a negative The positive is that they don’t spend a lot of time bombarding you with this lore. Like, you, you get bits and pieces of it, a lot of it is very expediently given to you in these just corny exposition dumps, you know, when one character happens to have a break in their life and can sit down and explain everything to the character who just came on the scene.

And so, and there’s a lot of blanks to fill in that we may, maybe get in the sequels, I don’t know. I don’t really remember. But yeah, so the movie doesn’t bother itself too much with that. But then again, for a two hour movie, it’s kind of surprising. So what does the two hour movie fill itself with? I think it’s a very slow pace.

Craig: Oh, see, I don’t know, maybe I didn’t think it was slow at all. Like, I always felt like stuff was happening. I mean, it felt very Action heavy to me,

Todd: but I thought from the very beginning we know where it’s going almost within maybe the first 10 to 15 minutes We’ve we establish who the big bad guy is we establish what his goal more or less We’re a little fuzzy on the exact details But we kind of know what he’s trying to do and what he’s up against.

Then, there’s not a lot more mystery. We’re just kind of seeing them do the detective work and the moving from place to place and the fighting this guy and fighting that guy that’s sort of necessary to get to that point where we’re expecting to get to. You know what I mean? It’s not a lot of like, Oh, suddenly there’s a twist and the movie goes in this brand new direction that’s suddenly piquing my interest again.

At least that’s not how I see it. Felt about the movie. So for me, I did kind of get a little bored, even though there was stuff happening, I

Craig: think, I think I understand. I got a little bored too. It’s really odd because I’m going back and forth between saying it’s heavily plotted. It’s not heavily plotted.

I think that it really is only because it feels like you are coming into this movie. I may be getting more heady here than is necessary. Like, all of a sudden, I’m just an observer in this world, and I just kind of have to figure out what’s going on. They don’t spend a whole lot of time explaining things.

It’s just like, here it is. Here is Blade. Here is who he is. Here is this bad guy. The bad guy’s name is Deacon Frost. He’s played by Stephen Dorff. Who is Stephen Dorff? Was Stephen Dorff The main kid from Monster Squad, is that?

Todd: Was he? Oh, I don’t know. He started out as a child actor. I don’t remember all that he was in.

Um, he’s been in a lot of things. He’s a good looking dude. He

Craig: was in one of those sexy Aerosmith videos with Alicia Silverstone. Yeah. He’s the bad guy, but then like, he’s kind of this rogue vampire. And then there’s also the, and he’s only a half vampire. Because he wasn’t born a vampire. He was turned into a vampire.

Wait, what? Like, right. The vampire lore here is also so like, it’s not the typical vampire lore that I’m accustomed to. And they’re not just going to, they’re not going to explain the rules to you. You just have to figure it out. That that’s what I mean. Like, I hear what you’re saying. I feel like I’m just all of a sudden.

I’m all of a sudden observing this world and they’re not gonna explain it to me. I just have to figure it out

Todd: Yeah, and to its credit, honestly, I kind of like that. You didn’t hold our hand through it, really But then there are some times where the dialogue is a little silly. By the way, he played Glenn in the gate Maybe that’s what you’re thinking of.

That is what I’m thinking of for sure. Yeah So yeah, I mean, I get what you’re saying and I do, I do agree with you there. Like I kind of said earlier, it’ll stop every now and then to give you like a big exposition dump for some backstory that you need. But like I said, very early on, we see this creepy boardroom of older vampires.

And within that one scene, we learned that all of those vampires are like purebloods and they are like the establishment. They basically control the world, unknown to all of us. They’re in every sector of society and in power. And that’s the way they like it. But then this guy is the rogue one. Who’s a half breed who comes in.

It’s like, eh, you know what you guys, your old hat. You don’t know the way the modern world works. And we’re going to do things differently.

Clip: Our livelihood depends on our ability to blend in and our discretion. Maybe it’s time. We forgot about discretion. We should be ruling the humans, not running around making back alley treaties.

Todd: And so he’s the loose cannon. And so he’s a threat not only to the world, but he’s also a threat to the current vampire establishment and the way they want to stay hidden.

Craig: And it’s interesting. I like the way that they went with this. They went hip and cool. Like, in the comics, this was an old man. An old man who was like struggling with his mortality and trying to find a way to live longer and and here They went with this young hip looking guy, and I don’t really know what happened to

Todd: Stevendorf.

I haven’t seen him He’s still making movies, it’s just not big things. It’s like, probably like, made for TV stuff.

Craig: This is one of the most commercial things that he’s done since he was a kid. He didn’t like doing commercial things, and talked about that openly. He had his reasons for doing this when I don’t remember what they were, but like, He’s this cool, sexy, young guy.

And I think that works really well because he’s challenging all of us. Old tradition, right? At the same time that he’s challenging old tradition, he’s also using tradition to challenge tradition, which I actually thought was really interesting. Like all of these old vampires on this council keep telling them that he’s a big, dumb, dumb.

For trying to do all this research into their ancient vampire texts. They’re like, it’s a, it’s a dead language. Nobody can translate that. Meanwhile, he’s got a translating program running on the computer right in front of them. It’s clearly translating it. And he’s like, okay, grandpa, whatever. And then he does translate it, but that’s what I say.

Like, there are so many things going on. There’s this ancient text. And I want to talk about the person who apparently keeps the ancient text. I don’t know what’s going on there, but they’re not keeping it very well. Let’s put it that way. But then when he translates it, it translates into like digital.

Architectural designs. Yeah, it gets a 3d model Of a place of something like it looks like a I don’t know. It’s like a big cylindrical Structure or something and there are all kinds of runes. Oh my god There’s so much going on in this movie and I know that I’m jumping way ahead and we can totally jump back But my favorite part of the movie and when I say favorite part, I mean The most ridiculous part to me is that he translates the ancient language.

It gives him computerized architectural things for this huge structure. In the end of the movie, we end up in this structure, which is an enormous, Huge. We’re talking like, I don’t know, 10, like stories tall. They didn’t construct it. He just says, you all forgot about it.

Todd: Yes. These geniuses forgot it ever existed.

Craig: But we found it right over here. Like, what? In our city. What? What are you talking about? It is enormous. Like it is the size of a building and, and it’s pristine and just, they forgot about it. I know, right? Hilarious to me. Hilarious.

Todd: Yeah. That bit was pretty silly. I laughed at that too.

Craig: What is the conflict?

Frost, he’s looked down on, the council looks down on him because he’s a half breed, but they all follow these rules. Like we have a treaty with the humans. It is. You know, we can’t just run amok and do whatever we want. We have to abide by these rules. And Frost, you know, the young, rebellious one is like, you know, Why do we have to do that?

They’re literally our food. We should be able to do whatever we want. So that’s the conflict there. And then obviously Blade is trying to stop the vampires.

Todd: In general.

Craig: Right?

Todd: Frost is just making it a little more imperative. Because Frost has like, for example, a nightclub that you get to through a meat locker where it’s just populated by vampires and they bring victims in and then spray blood over everybody in the crowd.

You know, that opening, that, I thought it was the opening. What?

Craig: Sorry, I didn’t mean to like stop you in your tracks. Yeah. But I, I thought that that, that scene was really hot. And when the movie opened and I saw Tracy Lourdes. Yes. And then I saw that she was not top build, but among the top build. Yeah. I was so excited.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: She is like sexy and she’s like leading this guy into this really sexy Sexy club full of sexy people and yeah, like techno music and strobe lights and everybody’s just like grinding on each other and it’s sweaty and just really hot. Oh yeah, I was so, so excited. And then I was super bummed that she wasn’t in the movie anymore, was she?

Todd: You know what’s funny about this is that that scene is the only scene I remembered from this movie from way back And I remembered Tracy Lourdes was in it and somewhere in my mind I thought Tracy Lourdes was right there beside the big bad guy through the whole movie and it’s not it’s this other girl I wish

Craig: she were

Todd: Yeah, I do too, because I’m a, let’s just say I’m a Tracy Lourdes fan and leave it, leave it at that.

Craig: Listen, I, listen, I am too, honestly, and not maybe for the same reasons, but she’s very, she’s a very interesting person. Yes. Her life and her career are so interesting, and she has made for herself a legitimate acting career, and I always enjoy her. I find her really. Fun to watch on camera. I don’t know if she’s ever gonna win any awards, but she’s compelling She’s compelling and like this was just perfect for her She looks like I don’t want to say a porn star,

Todd: but she looks like a porn star, you know Like she’s just very sexy She’s a sex pot and always has been and I don’t and on the one hand like I don’t think she’s really tried to be anything But honestly, she claims she has but every role she’s taken kind of everything that she’s done has really leaned into that So, uh,

Craig: I loved her in that movie except Do you remember that movie that we did?

Yes, we did. She was the mother, right? She was like the conservative. Mother. Yeah. I thought she was great. That’s

Todd: true. I guess that’s one of the few roles when, yeah, she did that. Wasn’t she also in Serial Mom? Am I wrong about that?

Craig: I don’t remember. I’ve only seen that time.

Todd: Oh, John Waters kind of liked her.

He had her in Cry Baby as well. That was one of her earlier mainstream roles. Yeah, that was also very disappointing for me to see her in there and I thought I was going to be seeing her as I remembered through the whole movie and no, I think she dies in that club sequence actually. I think she’s one of the last vampires to lash out a blade and he, uh, I don’t know.

Craig: Well, and that’s the thing, there are multiple This is the first of many, many scenes where Blade takes out like a hundred people. Yeah, I know! Or, or vampires.

Todd: He starts using martial arts at first. It’s so hilarious because I even said it out loud as I was watching this scene. You know, he’s doing all these cool martial arts, he’s got his kn his blades, his knives, he’s swinging around, he’s got some thing he throws and all that stuff.

And then about three quarters of the way through, he just whips out a god and just starts mowing people down! Oh yeah, yeah. Wait, he could’ve just done that from the beginning. I guess he just likes to have a little fun. Fun first handguns,

Craig: shotguns, machine guns. Like they’re all automatic. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Like he’ll just stand in the middle of a room with a big old machine gun and just spit around and shoot a bazillion vampires. And, and, and he’s just, you know, he’s killing vampires. They, uh, you know, they’re bad and they kill people. And

Todd: well, he’s searching, he’s searching for the vampire that killed his mother.

That’s his motivation. Oh, he is. Yeah! I didn’t even get that! Oh yeah, yeah. No, there’s a moment where he sits down and he admits this, uh, to the woman, Karen. Karen is the hematologist. Coincidentally, he meets a hematologist. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha He almost burns to death, he tries to burn to death a guy at this club, a vampire who he’s been facing off with for a while apparently and a sort of right hand man to the big guy, Frost.

Yeah. And she ends up helping her ex boyfriend, uh, Do a, what do you call it? Autopsy on the body. And of course the body comes to life and bites her ex boyfriend and then she ends up somehow embroiled in this and Blade visits her because he heard she was involved and is kind of trying to protect her but also use her as bait to lead him to others because he knows that now that she’s sort of had an encounter with the vampire they’re going to start coming after her and so they do and that’s how they get involved.

Craig: Well and she’s been kind of maybe bit. Yeah She might be turning into a vampire or maybe or maybe not but luckily she’s a hematologist So she can like make serums and

Todd: stuff This is a good time to start talking about Kris Kristofferson Cuz what blade does is he gets in his blade mobile and he drives into the blade cave.

His blade cave is awesome Is a, uh, big kind of, it looked like a chop shop, but I guess it’s like an abandoned warehouse somewhere. That, uh, his buddy Whistler, played by Chris Christopherson, is in. And Whistler is his Alfred. Yeah. He’s the one who apparently developed the serums. He makes all of his weapons for him.

Gives him down home spun friendly advice.

Craig: That’s, that’s the thing, like, he’s like, Alfred, like he’s not the prim and proper Brit. He’s like a rough and tumble, you know, American, America. Yeah. Oh, he’s seen shit. He’s definitely seen shit. Played by Chris Christopherson, who, Again, Todd, we’ve talked, we’ve said this so many times, and, and so often, I think that we do these tributes for precisely this reason, that these are just people who, they’ve always been there.

Kris Kristofferson has just always been there. Been there. I’ve always seen him in movies from the time that I was a child until now. I’m not a big country music fan. I don’t hate country music, but I don’t listen to it intentionally.

Todd: Yeah, that’s me too.

Craig: And so learning more about him, you know, I remember him from movies.

I can’t even tell you all the movies that I remember him from. From, he always kind of plays a similar kind of character. He plays that gruff American man. He’s very much a man’s man, like a masculine kind of guy. He’s got baritone bass kind of voice. He seems like somebody who, like, as you said, has been through stuff and you can trust him to shoot straight with you.

Like, yeah, it’s like a cowboy. Yeah, exactly. He’s a good old boy and he’ll shoot you straight. Whatever that means. That guy will

Todd: shoot you straight. I like what you did there. I like what you did there. Well, one of his earlier film roles was Convoy. You know, did you ever see Convoy? No. It’s like a 70, early seventies movie based on a hit song.

Convoy was like his radio hit about truckers and CB radio.

Craig: Yeah. I’ve heard this song.

Todd: Yeah. You know, it’s like a novelty song.

Craig: Like, I’m ridin

Todd: convoy. It is, it is not at all like this rough and tough song. Like, the chorus kicks in like, We’ve got a great big convoy, rockin through the night. We’ve got a great big convoy, ain’t it a beautiful sight.

Come on and join our convoy, ain’t nothing gonna get in our way. We’re gonna roll this truckin convoy across the USA. That

Craig: is gonna live on the internet until the end of time. It is bright and happy. I’m gonna pull that up at your funeral.

You know what? I wouldn’t mind one bit. It’s fine. And it’s a good segue because Chris Christopherson too was a country music singer and poet. songwriter. And he had some hits of his own, but he really was more, I don’t know if it was by choice. I, you know, I, I always think that’s really interesting. There are some songwriters who start out wanting to pursue their own performing career and it doesn’t take off.

But they are able to sell their songs and their songs become very popular with other artists. And it seems like Kris Kristofferson is one of those people. And then there are singer songwriters who are happy to be songwriters and to give their songs to other people like Carole King. You know, obviously Carole King has had a A huge career on her own, but she’s also written for many, many other people.

Anyway, that’s off topic. Chris Kristofferson. But no, it’s not. I, I didn’t know until today that he wrote me and Bobby McGee. I had no idea. That’s insane. And he dated Janis Joplin and he was in The Highwaymen. I do think I knew that. And the Highwaymen was him and Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson and I can’t remember.

But this guy, like, this guy’s huge, huge in country music. I knew him as an actor. I recognize him as an actor. I’ve always liked him. Anytime he pops up, I like him. He was in a silly movie with Dolly Parton called, like, Joyful Noise. He pop, he pops up. All over the place.

Todd: He just pops up all over the place.

Pat Garrett and Billy, the kid, a star is born, which is a remake of an earlier movie, but then that got remade into the Lady Gaga one with Bradley Cooper, which is really good movie, by the way.

Craig: It is good. I would like to see, I would really like to see the Barbra Streisand, Kris Kristofferson one, um, but like, I, I think I’m picturing those two men in my head, like Kris Kristofferson, Bradley Cooper, and I almost feel again.

I can’t say because I haven’t seen the Kris Kristofferson one, but Bradley Cooper was giving Chris Kristofferson in that movie. So I don’t know if he was borrowing, you know, I don’t want to accuse anybody of stealing, but it’s a very Chris Kristofferson vibe and he’s the mentor in this. And honestly, like I think this was the right choice to go with for the tribute for him, but we don’t get a lot of him.

He’s just tough. He’s been through it. Fix anything. Yeah, he can fix anything. He, he recognizes the truths of the world, like things aren’t always happy ending, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But he’s also a good guy. You know, he is taken care of blades since he was a kid and he helps him out and he’s Alfred or whatever.

Clip: I had a family once, wife, two daughters, then a drifter came calling one evening. A vampire. He toyed with them first. Tried to make me decide which order they’d die in. We kill as many of them as we can find. But it’s getting worse. Because of Frost. There’s something happening in the vampire ranks. There’s something big.

And at stake by life, that son of a bitch is at the center of it.

Craig: What was interesting to me, and again, we’re running short of time, so I’m just gonna jump around, but in the end, the bad guys find their Batcave. Frost beats the shit out of Whistler. So much so that when Blade finds him, he’s under a bloody sheet and Blade pulls it off and thinks he’s dead, but he’s not dead.

And they have a talk. There are so many talks in this movie. There are a lot of talk. I feel like we could, we could approach this movie from so many different ways because there are so many monologues that I would love for you to cut into this. There are so many hysterical monologues. Like Wesley Snipes is constantly monologuing.

It’s hilarious. I’ve

Clip: spent my whole life looking for that thing that killed my mother. It made me what I am. And every time I take one of those monsters out, I get a little piece of that life back. So don’t you tell me about forgetting.

Craig: And he’s also constantly talking like Shaft, like, Motherf er, are you out of your damn mind?

Todd: I have so many Wesley Snipes lines written down here that are just too great.

Craig: And I can only imagine that I don’t know. Maybe some of them were scripted, but I, I can only imagine that many of them were adlibbed. And I won’t do any more impressions, I’m sorry. Hahaha.

Todd: But some of them were so funny. I’ll do one of my favorites.

It’s at one point where he gets Frost familiar. This is, it’s Frost familiar who, um, tracks down Karen. And uh, Wesley Snipes has to jump in and save her, and take her back to his Batcave. But at one point when he’s beating up on him and lets him go, he says, You give Frost a message for me. Tell him it’s open season on all suckheads.

Oh my

Craig: god, yes, yes. So many, so many. All I was gonna get to was that Whistler tells Blade, You’re gonna have to finish me off. He’s like, no, I can’t do it.

And he’s like, all right, well, give me your gun. And Blade says no. And he’s like, give me your

Todd: gun. Give me your fucking gun. It’s like, if he curses at him, he’ll actually do it. At first, it’s a nice, polite request. And then he’s like, okay.

Craig: Yeah. So Blade does give him his gun and he walks away and he hears a gunshot.

And then we see Whistler’s hand fall down. Now I’m watching that and I’m like, what? Hold up, I am pretty sure that Chris Kristofferson is in at least one of the sequels. And he is! He’s in both! He’s in both of the sequels!

Todd: He comes back. I guess. He didn’t shoot himself. He let Blade think that he shot himself to free Blade from the responsibility of having to take care of him.

But I have no doubt that Kris Kristofferson is enough of a man that he reached right over to his machines. He

Craig: picked himself up. He rebuilt himself from the

Todd: ground up like a used

Craig: car. I’m sure he did. Wait, hold on. Let’s, let’s talk about Pearl real quick. I, I don’t even know how it happens, but they’re like investigating things and Blade and Karen are kind of like a little duo now.

And somehow they end up at a grocery store or a restaurant. They, they follow that guy that you mentioned before. There’s this cop that’s like a familiar for the really bad guy. They follow him to like a grocery store or something or whatever. And they’re looking for this person named Pearl. It’s so heavily plotted that I don’t even remember why they’re looking, but they, they find like this vampire library, I guess,

Todd: Oh my God.

It’s through the freezer in the kitchen of a nightclub. And I love how blade is able to go in to this busy nightclub that looks like it’s full of bad ass, by the way. One other thing I noticed about this movie is it is chock full of Asians to the point where I was like, did I miss something? Is this supposed to be Chinatown America?

I noticed that too. There’s like one scene that’s outside in a park and there are Asian people walking around left and right and there are red lanterns hanging. It looks like it’s like decorated for Chinese New Year.

Craig: Wasn’t this the club that was populated almost exclusively by Asian businessmen and there were teenage Asian girls.

Performing? There was like a J pop group. It was like a K pop. Uh

Todd: huh. Yeah, to the point where I turned to Liz and I said to her Oh, look, it’s the sinister Asians again. This is like, you know, the sinister Asian trope I mean this was hot though, you know back then even the Matrix has these heavily Asian influences And then of course the movie being heavily martial arts styled, I guess All right, that means we got to put Asians everywhere, but always in this sort of no Asians have any prominent roles.

Let me put

Craig: it that way. They’re extras. This may be getting too heady too, but do you think that that influx of that style in America at this time was because of the success of things like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, like, were, were we borrowing from

Todd: I think this being definitely a Hong Kong style martial arts movie, the action is filmed in this movie like a Hong Kong martial arts movie would be.

Wesley Snipes himself is like a black belt in one of the martial arts since he was like 12. I mean he, he heavily wanted it in here and so I guess They decided, well, then that means we need to put a bunch of Asians in here, but we’re not going to give them prominent roles. No, we’re just going to make them looming in the background or walking around, or they’re going to be in trouble.

You know, like this, this little girl that the guy holds up at one point who bless her little heart does nothing, but just sit there and watch.

Craig: Oh my gosh. That’s wild. You’re right. Like, yeah. Like was. Were they in a predominantly nat like, were they in Chinatown? Like, that’s what

Todd: I’m saying, like I don’t think so.

I was really looking for it, and I thought for sure that was the case, but no, like, in the outdoor scenes when it’s daylight, except for that one, no, it’s like downtown New York or Chicago, and they’ve got, you know, Jewish delis and things in the background, all kinds of stuff, so. Hmm. It was almost like I don’t want to say offensive.

I don’t know. You can be your own judge of that. But I would say that if you looked at this and said this was borderline offensive, I probably wouldn’t disagree with you. Do we know where they filmed? Yeah, they filmed in L L. A. Oh. And mostly an empty shampoo factory that was no longer being used.

Craig: Interesting. The whole thing, the only reason that is even worth mentioning, because there is another big like gunfight and big fight in the library, but not before they meet. The keeper of the documents. Like it’s all so like, it’s so dumb. It is kind of dumb. It’s this enormous like Jabba the Hutt type vampire, which I read in the trivia, like he’s so fat because he’s lazy and he only eats the hearts of children and, oh, That’s really fat.

They had initially conceptualized him being surrounded by the corpses of children. That would have been exciting. They ultimately decided that was a little too much. This scene is really, like, I like it. I don’t know. As far as recommending this movie, I don’t know. It’s all right. It’s, it’s from a very different time.

If you like superhero

Todd: movies, sure. Yeah. Gritty superhero action oriented movies with very little. of the smarmy tongue in cheek humor that you get in them now.

Craig: Available to stream for free. So I bought it. So, so, so now I have it forever or until Fandango goes down. But it’s just this big, like Jabba the Hutt kind of fat vampire. And Karen burns it with like a UV light. Like they have all of these. You know, technology things. She’s also, as I mentioned before, developed a bad serum that when injected into a vampire makes them explode.

She just

Todd: whips that up with equipment that she just ran by and borrowed from the hospital. I mean, she had to have gotten like two big vans to fill up with these huge pieces of equipment that she just casually writes off as, Oh, I just borrowed a few things from the hospital.

Craig: The final act all takes place at that big, like, Shrine, which is like a silo with Enormous deities carved into the walls and blah blah blah blah blah and what what frost is trying to do is And, and, and, and blade is the key because he’s special.

His blood is special. This is an ancient prophecy. This all gets so convoluted because his blood is special and they have to use it. To. Release the Blood

Todd: God? The Blood God! Every time they said that I was like, Oh God, please call it something else.

Craig: And then the Blood God is like a hurricane, and everything that it touches will turn into a vampire.

And it’s gonna be like the vampire apocalypse. But then it gets even more convoluted because at one point Frost like knocks Blade out and when he wakes up this like Coffin bed opens up and his mother is in it like all of a sudden Blades mother is around

Todd: Yeah, that was a twist. I wasn’t seeing coming,

Craig: but it’s also not telegraphed at all.

It’s not and When that coffin bed first opened, I thought at first that it was Karen, that they had Yeah Turned her into a vampire and like sexied her up, but it wasn’t, it was his mom And it turns out that his mom did die But was, you know, came back as a vampire and has been around all this time and as it turns out Frost is the one that turned her like When when that reveal came it was so late in the movie like it was so late Yeah, and I was like, yeah, really Jesus Christ.

I know I don’t fucking care. Like how is this gonna?

Todd: Right. They don’t care. They really don’t it’s too late in the movie to get a reveal like this because when that happens you it Feels dumb Especially when it hasn’t been telegraphed, right? Like, oh,

Craig: come on. I also didn’t like it, and I get that this is kind of a vampire thing, but it grossed me out that there were two scenes where the mom looked like she could not wait to get Blade’s dick in her mouth.

Like, again, I get it. They’re vampires. I get it. But, like, it was nasty.

Todd: Yeah, and her one line about how you have to To remember I’m not your mother anymore. I’m like an entirely different creature. It still did not explain away. It was gross. Yeah. But blade is the key. Yeah. And they have this ancient thing that he can fit perfectly in, you know, cause they built it thousands of years ago, apparently, but it’s, it’s size just for him.

Craig: It looks like when Han Solo was in Carbonite. He got frozen in Carbonite,

Todd: yeah. And he’s put in there, they take his shirt off. I thought they were going to strip him down, because, you know, as I remember, Wesley Snipes shows his ass in almost every movie he’s in, but apparently not in this one.

Craig: Before I forget, this isn’t a Wesley Snipes tribute episode, but I don’t know, who knows, maybe it will be someday.

My favorite performance of Wesley Snipes, it’s not like I’m a huge fan of his, I think he’s pretty good. Fine, whatever. Yeah. He also, of course, has had trouble in his personal life. I think he had some trouble with his taxes, a little bit of time in prison. Whatever.

Todd: Tax issues.

Craig: But my favorite performance of his is in To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything, Julie Neumar, where he plays a drag queen, and he is fantastic.

Have you seen that movie? No, I’ve never seen that. Holy shit, Todd. Drop everything and watch it today. day. It’s that good. Oh my God. Patrick Swayze, John Leguizamo, Wesley Snipes, all three straight men playing drag queens. They, they, they took that project and they went for it. Like they’re, they’re not making fun of drag queens.

They’re not making fun of gay people at all. Like they are giving really, really sincere. performances. Patrick Swayze will break your heart in that movie. He’s fantastic. Wesley Snipes is one of the best drag queens I’ve ever seen. And that’s so wild to me, because otherwise, he comes across as one of the most masculine Yeah.

men I’ve ever come across. Like, like, like this dude is a man.

Todd: He’s a specimen. And I’ve always felt that I’ve always felt that man was just carved out of onyx. In To

Craig: Wong Foo, he said that he emulated the women that were around him when he was a kid. And he wanted to, you know, those were strong women that he respected and he wanted to honor them.

Todd: Oh, that’s nice. Dude,

Craig: I can’t believe you haven’t seen that movie. It is. The

Todd: title was too long for me, so I

Craig: But there’s okay, so in this movie there’s the big showdown at the end They’re gonna sacrifice all of these pureblood vampires to this blood God and there’s a whole thing and ceremony and like lightning comes down and strikes all of the pureblood vampires and Skeleton bats fly out of them Yeah.

Okay. All right. And then all of those skeleton bats fly into Frost, the bad guy. And now he’s not Frost anymore. He’s the blood

Todd: god, I think. But he’s, he’s still kind of more or less Frost though. Just, just with bloodshot eyes now. Yeah. And I guess superpowers? Yeah. And superpowers. Because he can now fight people.

Blade more or less one on one. I suppose

Craig: there were parts of this that I love now First of all I read that they were supposed to fight for just a little bit and then The blood God was supposed to just turn into a giant sea of blood that would yes overpower the entire city and everybody would turn into vampires

Todd: the scene was shot and Rendered in everything and it was shown to test audiences and they hated it, right?

Did you watch it? No, no. I pulled it up on YouTube and you would laugh, you would fall out of your chair laughing at it. It’s a good thing they changed it. The CGI is so bad and the bit, it’s just corny as hell.

Craig: Well, I will watch it, I’m interested, I just didn’t have time, but what, instead they just allowed the two actors to sword fight, I don’t know, they had to reshoot it, whatever, I don’t know.

It’s a good call. I think it was a good call. Yeah, yeah, and it’s a great, it’s very good, it’s a good sword fight. And it seems very equally balanced for Most of the first half of it, but then it almost appears like Frost or the blood God whoever he is now had just been toying with blade for a while Mm hmm.

There’s a point where it paused like the the fight pauses and Frost says My turn. And I, the second he said that, I’m like, that is from the Lost Boys. This is a tribute to the Lost Boys because it’s the exact, when David and Michael are fighting at the end and, and Michael kind of gets like, he’s pushing David toward, I don’t remember.

But one of them says, My turn.

Todd: Oh, God. What I liked is, It becomes a bit more cat and mouse, Because at one point, They do leave the middle of that thing. And he kind of chases him around. And I remember him, Like, has to beat up a couple bad guys in his way, And he yells, Frost! And then he comes into the other room, And beats up a couple other bad guys, And when he’s done with that, he goes, Frost!

Craig: That

Todd: was, that was hilarious.

Craig: That’s what I’m, when I say I don’t think it’s aged that well, there are parts like that that I’m like, oh boy, like rolling my, like wowza, like, come on. And okay, so they fight and eventually Frost doesn’t know about the serum that if injected into a vampire first turns them into a garbage pail kid.

And then makes them explode. And those effects, like, I don’t care, I don’t mind watching them. They’re not bad. They’re, they’re actually funny. It’s, well, it’s funny to me. Yeah, it’s comical in a way. It’s funny to me that in 98 or whenever this came out, we thought, oh, look at what they’re doing there. That’s new and different and something that you couldn’t do easily with practical effects.

Hurrah! Today, it looks silly. It’s silly. And stupid and comical. It looks like they’re intentionally trying to be funny and maybe they were, I don’t know, but it looks stupid, but Frost doesn’t know about those. He just thinks that it’s Blade’s serum that he takes to make him not need to drink blood. So in their final battle, when it totally looks like Frost is going to win because he’s got these great superpowers or whatever, Blade manages to get his vials back and he shoots them all.

He ninja kicks one of them into Frost.

Todd: Yeah. After he says his best catchphrase of the movie.

Clip: Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate a bill.

Craig: Oh my God. Yeah. And I read that like Wesley’s knife just said that at some point.

Todd: Well, it kind of. It’s not, I mean, it’s just, it’s so weird. It’s such a weird line that it doesn’t seem like a team of writers really, you know, poured over it for days.

I I’ll just say that, but it’s iconic. It’s one of the few lines from this movie that everybody remembers.

Craig: I don’t know. I mean, that’s it like, and then he and Karen, you know, Walk out and he’s like, she’s like, well, I can still give you that serum that will turn you into a human. That was something that they had talked about before.

Like if I can give you a serum and you’re just fully human, then they can’t use your blood to resurrect this thing or whatever. But they didn’t do it. But she’s like, I can still do it. And he’s like, no, there’s still a war going on and, uh, I gotta fight it and, uh, I need you to help me. Cut to Moscow. Cut to Moscow where he just fights a Russian vampire in the snow, which is hilarious, I guess.

Todd: It’s badass hilarious. At

Craig: one point in time that they filmed it, that Russian vampire was supposed to be Whistler. Oh. But they brought Whistler back for the sequels, which I don’t remember at all. Uh, the movie’s alright. It’s okay. Like, there are really great, if you enjoy, like, Matrix style, Charlie’s Angels style, mid 90s, like, ninja fights?

Yeah. Sure. I think you’ll like this. Yeah, it’s fun. The, the fights are very, they’re, they’re well choreographed. It’s a lot of fun.

Todd: They’re in those, they’re also in like those 90s environments that we love so much. Like there’s a room that’s more or less full of glass. Oh my God. The minute they walk in there, you know, okay, this is going to be a fight scene.

Craig: It’s not just full of glass. It is a room. I don’t even remember where this was. It was the house, like it was somebody’s house or something. And there were just all of these walls that water was Flowing down all the time. Yeah, and I it’s so funny. Like when I was a kid, I would see something like that I’m like, oh my god, that’s so cool.

I would want to live there and then as an adult I’m like, ew gross like it would smell like a f king pool in there all the time Everything would be all like wet and mildewy

Todd: it’d be just like It was

Craig: a cool set piece though. And there’s cool stuff to look at. Like, I just, I feel like I don’t know, even the superhero movies today and this may be to their credit, or there may be to their discredit.

Like I feel like they have more to say. Yeah. This is just more of an action piece. It’s a little bit funny in some places. It’s too long. The original cut was like two and a half hours long. They cut it down a lot. They entirely reshot the ending. So this is actually the result of heavy editing. It’s not bad.

I wouldn’t turn you away from it. I wouldn’t give it an enthusiasm. Recommendation. You could skip it too and not really be missing a whole lot, but it’s all right. Chris Kristofferson was just a cool guy. I, you know, I don’t know if this is his best thing.

Todd: I’m sure it’s not his swan song. Yeah. No,

Craig: I’ve seen him in other things where he’s been more endearing.

Like, oh yeah, he dies in that Dolly Parton movie and that’ll maybe make you shed a tear.

But he really did that. like a cool guy and I don’t want to get numb to this. You know, we, we’ve done this so many times now when we’ve talked about people who aren’t with us anymore. And I don’t want to get numb to it because my intent and I believe that your intent in doing it too really is to pay tribute to these people who gave us a lot of entertainment and joy in our lives and who though we don’t know them personally, we feel their loss.

And, and we just want to acknowledge it. We want to say, thank you, you know, for entertaining us for so long and, and for your contribution. And I mean that genuinely.

Todd: And even though he was a sort of a secondary character in this movie, he is a leading man in many others. And he has been, he has won awards.

He’s been recognized as a pioneer in the country music industry. He’s been credited with. of um, setting a new direction for country music back in the 70s. I think they call it Outlaw Country. And an incredible writer. I was kind of shocked when I read about his early life because this guy grew up much like I did.

He had a dad in the Air Force just like I did and he just moved from place to place. But finally when he went to university, he went to university for writing. He graduated. at the top of his class. He went, got a Rhodes Scholarship to Oxford. Yeah,

Craig: yeah, smart, smart guy.

Todd: Summa Cum Laude from Oxford and wrote pieces early in his studies that were like published in the Atlantic and won awards.

I mean, this guy, you know, there’s a couple other people that we have attributed who are the same way. It’s like we know him for one thing, but we forget that there’s a lot more that he has done that has certainly been recognized. It just wasn’t in our, our orbit. You know? The writing, the songwriting, the songs that we’ve enjoyed by other musicians that we didn’t know that he wrote.

All of this stuff, like, kind of a, did a little bit of everything, and yet, not out there bragging about it. Just doing his thing. Just kind of like the characters in his movies, just a guy Who’s really good at some shit and doing his thing and knows what he’s about and really good at it. Cool guy. Maybe in that way, it was a bit of a fitting tribute to do this one.

Sure, sure, sure, sure. Rest in peace. Good job. You will be missed. Well, thank you guys so much for listening to this podcast. We really hope you enjoyed it. Let us know what you think of Blade. If you think it stood the test of time. You Your favorite memories of Kris Kristofferson, all you need to do is find us online at any one of our places where you can chat back with us.

That would be our social media sites on Facebook, Twitter, on Instagram, and on our website ChainsawWhore. com. Just Google 2000 Chainsaw Podcast, you can find us there. Our Patreon page is Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. And join the crew back there for as little as five bucks a month. You can get lots of mini sodes.

Boy, we did a lot of mini sodes last month. We’re planning on doing more here as we come into the holiday season, giving lots of goodies to our patrons. So if you’re interested in any of that, get on over there and join the family. We have a lot of fun behind the scenes. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.

With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          This week, we fielded a longstanding request from several of you, and brought on board one of those lucky listeners, Neal, to discuss in-depth a clever meta-horror pseudo-documentary that neither Craig nor Todd had seen before. But oh boy, did we enjoy this one! Full of fun cameos and clever takes on the slasher genre conventions, it twisted and turned in places we both expected and didn’t expect at all – with a killer ending to boot! Enjoy, folks!

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptBehind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon (2006)Episode 414, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: And today we are joined by a very special guest, one of our long time listeners and patrons, Neil. Neil, say hi to the people. Hey, how you doing? You’ve done a podcast, and do you have one going now, or…?

Neal: I don’t currently have one, so a number of years ago, I started a podcast with some of my best friends called “My Favorite F Words: Football, Fights, and Films”.

So we would talk about college football and the NFL, we’d talk about the UFC and boxing, and then we’d talk about the latest movies that were out. And, uh, this kind of brings me back to the movie part of that podcast. And, uh, we did it for a long time, but COVID kind of took us out of that game. And, actually, the friend who turned me on to this podcast, uh, he might recognize his name. Gilly, he’s one of your early patrons.

Clip: Mm hmm. Yeah.

Neal: He’s the one that told me about your podcast, uh, at work. And I’ve been listening to you guys for a long, long time because of that. I don’t know, I’m rambling now, but it’s been a great experience and I got a little bit of experience talking on the podcast, so.

Craig: I feel like we were at a little bit of an advantage during COVID because we had already been doing it this way.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And it’s been doing it remotely for so long that it really, it was no different for us.

Todd: We just had a little more time.

Craig: We had a lot of time on our hands. So

Todd: we’ve got a few episodes ahead that year.

I remember.

Craig: But cool. No, we’re really glad to have you. You’ve, uh, like, like Todd said, you’ve been around messaging us for a while. When we started taking voice messages, you were one of the first one who jumped in and we really appreciate it. We always appreciate the support. So we’re glad to have you from the first time you called in.

I said, this guy’s got a voice for the radio. This guy, this guy should, should do a podcast. So we’re really glad to have you.

Todd: And I

Craig: appreciate that.

Todd: And so he has, do you also, do you also have a radio background? I’m curious now.

Neal: I did some student media work when I was at Virginia tech in the mid 2000s. I started a student media organization because there wasn’t enough room to work for the student paper and ended up.

doing some video work, mostly video work. So I got credential to work in the sports department, got down on the field to shoot football games and interview coaches and players and stuff, got to go to a couple of bowl games, went to the NCAA tournament, interviewed some of the Yankees when they came down to play an exhibition game against our baseball team.

So I had a little bit of experience in front of and behind the camera.

Todd: That’s fantastic. Fellow journalist, huh? Just like me. There you go. I started, I did journalism in school as well. Yeah. Wow.

Neal: But all good. All good. We can stay on task.

Todd: Well, the task today I’m really enjoying because you recommended when you called us on Speakpipe, This movie that I believe you had requested before and we’ve gotten this request from a couple other listeners as well Their names are not in front of me behind the mask the rise of leslie vernon You know when you guys first brought it up I had not heard of this at all and then I kind of looked into it But I didn’t really look into it Like I didn’t go to the imdb and really research it.

I just kind of googled it and it came up And this was years ago. I thought okay. This is some quirky little Odd independent feature that probably, you know, was shot on video and released a video and, and whatever. And so, you know, maybe we’ll come around to it. Maybe we’ll check it out. You know, it sounds like a mockumentary kind of thing.

It could be fun. And then, uh, your recent message. Made us, uh, take another look at it and, uh, then I look, I was like, Oh my God, this movie has a bit of a better pedigree than I originally gave it credit for, which I found unusual because I hadn’t heard of it before. So I’d never seen this before. Like I said, I, it just completely was off my radar, this 2006 movie.

And, uh, here we are talking about this movie almost 20 years later, that feels like it could have been shot, I think, like yesterday. And it has some stars in it. Some people we know. So wow. What a treat this was just to watch it. Thank you. Thank you for recommending it. I’m just going to throw that out there.

I’m so glad

Neal: you enjoyed it. Craig, what did you think about

Craig: it? Well, it’s, this is weird. I hadn’t seen it, but the reason that I hadn’t seen it was because. I was mistaking it for something else. For some reason, I was thinking of Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer. I don’t know why that’s, yeah, that’s, I was thinking that’s what this was.

And at some point I had started watching that movie and I didn’t really get into it. And so every time I would hear of Behind the Mask, I’d be like, and I’m not really interested. So when I put it on, I was like, am I wa, this doesn’t seem familiar. Am I watching the right movie? I, I had totally mistaken it for something else.

Gosh, I don’t know. I didn’t love it, but I totally get why people like it and there are so many. Actually, maybe one of the issues that I kind of have with it, it’s a tip of the hat to Super Horror fans, but I wonder like if you’re not a super hardcore fan like us. If you would get it at all, like I thought it was really clever and funny and I loved all the little you know callbacks to different movies and stuff, but I thought if I didn’t get that like if I didn’t If I wasn’t in on that joke, I might just think it was kind of stupid

Really? I could,

Todd: well, I think I’ve talked about that. When we did Cabin in the Woods where I showed it to my dad and he hated it. He was like, I think this movie’s dumb and it’s really stupid and it’s just mean spirited and stuff. And then I realized, yeah, he doesn’t get it. He doesn’t get any of this stuff.

’cause he doesn’t know the language, you know, he doesn’t know all these conventions. And this whole movie is nothing but poking fun at conventions. So I could see, yeah, I could totally see why this, why, why this probably would go over the heads of people who had not, were not familiar with all those. What about you, Neil?

How did you first come across this one?

Neal: So I came across it probably a year or two after it came out. So it was still somewhat fresh and semi new. The whole meta horror thing had not been as pervasive in the space as it is now. So I thought it was really interesting. At the time, I was in a relationship with someone who was a theater major and was very into movies like Waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, all the Christopher Guest movies, the mockumentary style movies like that.

Love them. And, and it felt very much like a horror version of Waiting for Guffman.

Clip: Yeah.

Neal: And so I was very interested in, in the setup of it, and again, I am a Horror fan, you know, so seeing, you know, they started off and they’re talking about a world where Jason Voorhees is real. Freddy Krueger is real. You see Kane Hodder walking into Nancy’s house on elm street at the very beginning of the movie and you’re like, wait a second.

Like so for me, this is like the first experience that i’m sure people now get watching marvel movies where they’re like, oh, I recognize that. Oh, yeah, you know, so that was my experience with it at first and you’re right It didn’t get I think it came out the same weekend as Dead Silence, the ventriloquist movie,

Todd: uh,

Neal: horror movie.

Todd: James Wan, right.

Neal: Back in 2007. And so, I don’t think that there was anything really competing with it. But, you know, it didn’t make any money, it didn’t, it was a first go out for the director and most of the people in the cast. So I can see why it didn’t make a splash, but I was really disappointed that it didn’t get picked up somewhere else when streaming came out and got another run at it.

Clip: Yeah.

Neal: Yeah. Well, and I don’t

Craig: want you or the listener to get me wrong. I really liked it. I thought it was really clever. I loved the structure of it and, and thought that it was something that I don’t recall ever having seen something like this before, where they’re just taking this ridiculous idea of filming a documentary about a wannabe serial killer and like following him through that process.

I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that, but that was really clever. And then I thought that it was really clever when it switched. In the last, I don’t know, third or so to basically a more traditional Slasher. I just, I think that, gosh, I don’t know, just like a casual horror fan, just, I feel like they might not be in on the joke.

I very much was in on the joke, and I thought it was hilarious.

Clip: Um, but

Craig: I could see how somebody coming at it, not from that perspective. Background might see Leslie Vernon in his killer costume with that mask, which I love, and I hope that we’ll talk about at length. But there are certain images that I think are meant to be funny.

I just don’t know if a more general audience would be in on the joke, but I myself really enjoyed it, thought it was hilarious, really clever, really well written and obviously made by. people who know horror and who are fans of horror. There’s a lot of fan service and I’m here for it. Absolutely.

Todd: I totally agree.

You know, it’s interesting because I felt like I thought the movie took a turn, and we’ll talk about that in a second, but I was really surprised. It started out, and I was like, oh, this is cute. Oh, this is clever. This is interesting, but I’m wondering how far can they possibly take this? Because, you know, the conceit is that there is a, and this, I don’t know if I’m, if I should be confused by this, or if I’m thinking too hard about it, but, you know, this is a world where Jason and Freddie, We’re real life events, and so these people at, you know, these things actually happen, they actually exist, and they just talk about them casually.

And they make it almost sound like all this happened in a, down the street from each other. And this woman, Taylor, who’s, again, this is totally documentary style. Who’s on the camera talking about this says and now we get to Leslie Vernon a 24 years ago a boy who was murdered by being thrown over a waterfall And so then when we see Leslie Vernon on camera I’m like is this a supernaturally resurrected Leslie Vernon and we’re just going with that or is that a mythology that was constructed that Now, you know, is his cover for doing all these murders in this way?

Like, how did you guys take it?

Neal: I was, it was weird to me because when she starts off talking about how these murders took place and were real and so on and so forth, and then she’s going to interview this guy who claims to be the, the person who was thrown off the cliff, you know, as a boy. I had the same, a similar, You know, what is this?

Is this supernatural, or is he truly coming back? And if he is a wannabe serial killer, what is she doing interviewing him instead of calling the cops? But then, I thought I told you my background is in student media, and It’s you see in the super it says university news so You know college students aren’t very bright anyway when they’re just trying to get started You know, so I could see myself being a very very amateur journalist doing a lot of the same things that she was doing Including the really wooden stand up.

Clip: He knows this he says because he himself is the heir apparent to that throne of terror so long held by the likes of Voorhees, Myers, and Kruger. This man’s name is Leslie Vernon. Alright, we

got it. Good job, Taylor. Did that sound forced? I, I, too much like Diane Sawyer, uh, I’m trying to find my own voice. No, it’s

Neal: tight. And that really kind of set me in for the movie. It’s like, okay, it’s not going to be like this. It’s going to be more of a real thing. But with Leslie himself, I really like that actor.

I don’t know. He set me at ease right at the beginning. So I kind of didn’t question it a lot and just wanted to go with it.

Todd: Nathan Basile. Basil? I don’t know how you pronounce it.

Craig: Yeah, he had done some TV. This was his first film, I think. And I really liked him too, but going back to, you know, what is the backstory, you know, is it supernatural?

Is he back from the dead? Well, no. What it comes This is why I think the movie is so smart. What it comes down to is, no, it’s none of those things. Because that’s not really his backstory. It’s just a backstory that he adopted.

Todd: He’s cop. Okay. And,

Craig: you know, he says this. I don’t know exactly what he says. He says lots of kind of philosophical things about the nature of these killers or whatever, but the backstory doesn’t really matter.

You just have to have it. And it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not, as you know, as long as people hear it. And so then that makes me think, okay, well, we’re living in a world where the people just talk casually about Freddie and Jason and Chucky and all of these other killers in this world. and maybe the movie is positive, I don’t know.

All of these guys might not be who we thought they were.

Neal: You know what I’m saying? Exactly, I had heard some folks on other media around this movie talking about how hearing that Chucky was real kind of threw them off and I was thinking, well if you really pay attention to this movie, a lot of it is the work arounds to make it seem supernatural when it’s not.

You know the, the, The cardio line is one of my favorites in the movie.

Clip: You have no idea how much cardio I have to do. It’s ridiculous. Why so much? Well, you ought to be able to run like a freaking gazelle without getting winded. Plus, there’s that whole thing of Making it look like you’re walking. And everybody else is running their asses off.

Oh, right. And I gotta stay with them.

Craig: Yeah, that was

Clip: that was hilarious.

Craig: I mean, it’s such a great conceit, you know, this documentary thing of the buildup, like obviously in these horror movies, these things just happen. You, you expect them, you basically know what’s going to happen. This movie comments on the formulaic nature of it and how they’re all basically the same.

And it does it in a really funny and. Intelligent way. Gosh, but just walking you through step. You don’t think about Jason planning for days ahead. For this event. Yeah. You know, it’s meant to appear spontaneous and the suggestion that it’s not, I just think is really clever.

Todd: Yeah. Yeah.

Neal: Like what? What’s Jason doing on Saturday the 14th?

Todd: right? , right? Or Thursday, the twelfth’s. Thursday the 12th. Yeah. So

Craig: that’s a big day for him.

Todd: Wednesday the 11th. Yeah. He’s gotta set everything up and he’s gotta set it up to these like conventions that. All the people like him know, like all the serial killers know, this is what you have to do. In a way, it’s, it’s almost pretty modern, it’s like a YouTube tutorial, you know, you have these guys who think they know everything who get on YouTube and say, Alright guys, you want to like invest in the stock market, this is, I’m going to walk you step by step through how you do it.

Or, you want to do X or you want to do Y, like, this is the way, this is the way it’s done. done, you know, it’s, it’s sort of like they have this community that has just also agreed that this is the most efficient and effective way to do it. You know, you got to have the backstory. You got to plant that backstory in their head somewhere at some point, whether you fake a newspaper article like he does and lays it casually on top of some books at the library.

So she’s sure to discover it, you know, and, and then of course, you know, you need to have that. They don’t call it the final girl. What do they say? They say the Survivor girl? Survivor

Neal: girl.

Todd: Survivor girl. And I

Neal: thought that was a clever way to do it because in this world, if it’s real, they’re not talking about final girls in the context of the last one left in a movie.

Clip: Yeah. They’re

Neal: thinking of it as the person who makes it out alive from these real life events.

Craig: That is clever. I didn’t Think about that.

Todd: So we got to have the survivor girl. And then, you know, eventually this, this journalist goes and they visit one of his friends and they’re all talking about it. Like, you know, they’re chatting about sports or, you know, whatever.

Oh, you, you were sure to do that, right? Oh yeah. I remember back in 72 and like this happened with that guy and yada, yada, yada. It’s so funny and it just builds and builds. And in that way, The movie never got boring for me, because I didn’t feel like this conceit was getting played out, you know? I felt like it was just getting a new layer added, a new layer added, a new layer added.

And to go back to what you were saying earlier, Neil, starting to say, about the journalist being kind of naive. At one point, you know, you realize this girl’s in over her head, and I could see it coming, you know? I thought, okay, wait a minute. This movie is either going to go one of two ways, right? It’s going to keep the joke going and it’s just going to be a funny movie.

Or it’s going to start to get deadly serious. And what does that do? How does that going to change the tone? And how do you accommodate for these people going along with him on this killing spree? And that’s the direction they go. And they go at it full force to the point where there’s a scene in there where It almost seems like the girl real either realizes for the first time or at least as she’s been putting it to the back of her mind, but she’s forced to confront for the first time the idea that they’re going to accompany him as he executes this plan that he’s been talking about for the last 30 minutes, and he’s been walking them through.

And now she’s got this moral dilemma. And then I was thinking, Okay, this movies really get interesting now. And for me, a little uncomfortable. Well,

Neal: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there’s that moment where the crew meets, I guess I’m trying to jump it around, they meet Doc Holleran.

Todd: Oh, Doc Holleran, yeah.

Neal: Yeah, played by Robert Englund from Nightmare uh, Freddy Krueger.

What?

Todd: That was crazy. Ha ha

Neal: ha ha ha. And after they meet him, Leslie corners him outside, or meets him outside, and was like, Hey, I told I told you, don’t go talk to my survivor girl. And he gets real sinister at that point, you know, like he He kind of flips the switch for just a minute And violent not just sinister very violent.

Yeah, like very menacing And they’re like, oh this guy is actually serious He’s not just some wacko that you know Just follows serial killers and wants to be like them like this guy is actually dangerous And I think that the movie needed that to hammer home the point like this is this is going to take a turn at some Point and we really need to not get too attached to the fun side of leslie vernon You

Craig: Yeah, but I think for me that is the most compelling part of this movie is that I liked him

Clip: Yeah

Craig: Guys, spoiler alert.

He kind of dies at the end. Maybe question mark. We can talk about it later But in that moment like in his death scene, I was sad Yeah, I didn’t like I was like, oh I mean, he’s basically a nice guy.

Todd: Well, that’s kind of the brilliance of this. And I, I went back and I read, I don’t know if you guys found this interview that, uh, Nathan Basil.

Did the guy who played him back in 2013 what he mentions here He said that he had a totally different take on the character than any of the other actors who came out there He said that the way that it was written on page and the way everybody had read it This guy was just like a big mean evil guy who every now and then said some funny things and he said that you know He came in really pretty strong with the director and was like look no, man I want to take it this way and he had this affable Take on it that we see in the movie.

And I think that is kind of the key to what makes this movie work. I think. Because you, you immediately, you’re almost on his side, and you, you take him more seriously because of it, because he has an actual ethos, kind of behind what he’s doing, that disturbingly is totally not unlike the ethos of serial killers, terrorists, you know, people who are, you know.

actually out in the world doing things. He specifically calls out, like, the Unabomber.

Craig: Sure, sure, but, eh, crazy people like that, but also just anybody with ambition who doesn’t care who they leave in their wake. Right. You know what I’m saying? Like, that could be anybody. That could be business people, politicians, you know, people who are ravaging others.

It’s true. For their own personal gain. Ambition. I don’t know, maybe that, maybe that’s too, yeah.

Todd: Well, no, I mean, I agree with you. That’s, that’s part of it. But like, I think the other part of it that I thought was so compelling was that this guy really feels like he’s like, he’s like doing God’s work,

Clip: right?

Every culture, every civilization from the dawn of man has had its monsters. For good to be pitied against evil, you have to have evil. Don’t you?

Neal: And then later in the very last interactions between Leslie and the crew, before things kind of take their, their final turn,

Clip: I made a choice. I made a choice to provide a counterbalance to all those things that we hold good and pure.

You chose journalism. Okay.

Todd: That was hilarious. I laughed so hard at that line. I literally laughed out loud. And I don’t laugh out loud at much, but I laughed out loud at that line so hard.

Neal: It was delivered so earnestly too. I looked at his background. He’s from, he trained at Juilliard.

Clip: Yeah.

Neal: So he brought a lot of really unique aspects to this character and the portrayal.

Right? It doesn’t It tracks completely that he would do a completely different take on the presentation for this character, including the character of Leslie, the slasher, the monster, um, barefoot was his idea was Nathan basil’s idea. They never had a barefoot slasher killer before, and they thought that it would make him seem even more kind of otherworldly or feral.

Um, Yeah, feral, that’s a great word. Yeah. If, if he was thrown over a cliff as a boy, the whole aesthetic of the Leslie Vernon slasher Kind of brings that up. He’s wearing overalls, the mask. We can talk about the mask. It’s very childlike on the director’s commentary. I think that they call that version the boy he’s Leslie when he’s regular Nathan out there talking with Taylor and stuff, but when he goes into his killer mode, they call that the boy.

Todd: Yeah. And it’s kind of, it’s, it’s, it’s a little bit reminiscent of Jason when, when at the end of the first Friday, the 13th, when he comes out of the, you know, he’s kind of got that extended forehead and. He’s a little deformed. You know what I’m talking about? That was, that was something I thought of when I saw that, that mask.

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know, like, it just felt very kind of amorphous, like, almost like it was made out of, like, Play Doh or something. Yeah. What, I don’t know, I don’t, you probably know. Kind of Uncanny Valley. Yeah, a little bit of a porcelain Elvador Dali melting clocks kind of look to it.

Neal: But because it was great.

Oh, I’m sorry.

Craig: I just, yeah, I was just going to say, I thought that the look was great and I totally 100 percent agree with you that that is an excellent show of talent in that when he is in the mask, he’s different. And not even just in the mask. There’s a moment later where, you know, somebody takes his mask off while he’s still in killer mode, but very different, but at the same time, I totally bought it.

Like I, I believe this guy is a character. I believed him when he was talking to the crew outside and was like, look, you guys. Can go or you can stay, but I’ve got to do my thing. And this is going to end up one way or another for me, either way. And he communicated with them on that level, but then when they made the decision to stay, okay, well now I’m Leslie Vernon, the killer.

So sorry. Gosh, I don’t want to get too deep into it, but like the duality of his character. I totally bought. And I thought he did a great job portraying it.

Todd: I also don’t want to get too deep, but in a way, I felt like I could relate to it a little bit. Not that I want to go out and kill anybody, but like, all of us who are horror fans at some stage of our lives or another are questioning, Why are we into this stuff?

There’s almost sort of a duality. I feel like there’s this odd duality to my personality that I can’t quite reconcile. Like, people who meet me, people who know me, have known me for years or whatever, like, obviously they know I’m into horror, but, and, but it just, it seems very incongruous to them that this guy who, you know, wouldn’t hurt a fly is really into this dark stuff, dark music, all that kind of stuff.

And I don’t show it on my face, you know, I don’t go out wearing the t shirts, you know, and we’ve talked about it on the podcast too. What is horror? Why do we like horror? Why? Do perfectly normal and sane people enjoy watching this terrible stuff. And then we also have a lot of movies that, that mind that, right?

Like funny games and that are constantly challenging us. Like, why do you watch this stuff and considered entertainment? And in a way, I feel like in this movie, Leslie Vernon is sort of the embodiment of that, except he’s the extreme. He’s not into horror. He’s into killing people. Otherwise he thinks this is just, this is my job.

You know, this is life, this is, uh, required to restore the balance, and, and I take it very seriously, and also, you know, ha ha ha, we can joke, and I, we can be laughable, and I, and, and you like me as well. It’s very uncomfortable, in a way.

Neal: Mm hmm, totally. Totally.

Todd: You know, that’s really what the movie is up to that point, is just this continuous gag of him walking them through his preparation.

As though we were watching, you know, following Jason. And Jason was just like, okay, well, here’s where I halfway break the board so that when she runs up the stairs, she’s going to fall into this one. That’s going to slow her down. And, you know, this is what I do here. And this is how I make them discover my backstory that is.

Lots of fun.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he it’s gosh, I mean, he is, we know from the beginning that he is the killer, but he’s also kind of at the same time, the Randy from screen, like he’s the one who’s walking you through step by step the things that we already know, you know, like any one of us. Could have walked you through the steps.

I mean, there were things that I had never thought of before. Like, I don’t know. I guess the final girl grabbing a big, long, hard weapon. Okay, sure. All right, fine. Yeah. And then I don’t even. I wrote it down, but I’m not going to scan through my notes to find it like the opposite of phallic, like, like vaginal.

Yeah, there you go. Like you have to have that imagery to like the, the final girl has to go through that. You know, like she has to be reborn as this new strong person. Okay. Like I don’t know that I’ve ever thought about it that closely, but the way that he lays out the formula is accurate. And I thought it was great, but what I was really kind of more interested in, in that part, aside from the fact that he was very charismatic and I was a big fan of his was the documentary side of it, which you guys have kind of hinted at a little bit, but I’m really interested to hear specifically you guys perspective because this Taylor girl.

It’s her. She’s the one in front of the camera. And then she’s got like three guys behind her and you barely see them at all until the last third, when they get in front of the camera, but she’s played by Angela Goethals. Did you guys recognize her from anything? Home Alone, perhaps? Ha ha ha

Neal: ha ha! Yeah, that was, that was great.

She has an interesting look, and I was like, I’ve seen this girl somewhere before, and it wasn’t until I knew immediately who it

Todd: was. This looks like an older, not even an older version of her. Like, just somebody, like, blew her face up and made her, like, into a

Craig: twenty something. In, in, in my house, like, Alan and, uh, My sister and I too, because my sister and I grew up watching it.

We will say to each other at least a couple of times a year. You know what the French say? Les incompetants.

So that was a little distracting. However, I loved the concept of them filming this documentary, but Todd, I feel like you and I briefly talked about it when we talked about creep 400 episodes ago,

Todd: um, literally

Craig: how like, okay. So, so you get into this and you’re a journalist and by nature of being a journalist, you are meant to be an observer.

You are not meant to be. An active participant, right? I’m a little confused because she knew this guy wanted to be like the next Jason or Freddy or whatever. So she knew his ultimate objective was to kill people. At what point was she no longer going to participate in that? Because it seemed like it caught her by surprise

Todd: near the end.

I don’t know, how do you interpret that? I think I said it earlier, the way I interpreted it was, it was probably always an uncomfortable question that she was constantly pushing to the back of her, of her head, and not really willing to face until that moment came, just because, you know, she’s a little naive.

But I don’t know, Neil?

Neal: Yeah, I thought she was going at it from the perspective of, he’s obviously not somebody that came back from the dead. He’s interested in these real life killers and stuff, and he claims to be the next in line for their legacy. But, he can’t be serious if he’s calling me to showcase this stuff, so let’s see what he, what he says.

Insight he can provide on this and maybe We’re doing some good in that we can learn some things that almost like profiling I guess, you know Here’s a look inside the mind of a person who would want to do these kind of things and if we can bring that to Light maybe we can help save some lives or something.

That’s that’s the best I can square it in my head But at the same time time, like I said, she’s A college journalist with her college journalist buddies, and I’ve done some really dumb Look on location shoots and yeah trying to trying to do more than I’ve got any business and experience trying to do So, yeah, that’s the best I can square it.

So

Todd: you’re thinking she didn’t ultimately think he was going to actually start to go through with it.

Neal: Yeah, I thought she was waiting for the twist too. Like, okay, he’s telling me all of this stuff, but he can’t possibly be serious.

Craig: He seems like a really nice guy. Right.

Neal: Yeah, he’s disarming in that way. And she just gets Sucked into his all his field.

Clip: Yeah,

Craig: I can’t imagine

Neal: they like him too.

Craig: Yeah, I can imagine getting sucked in Ultimately, it’s not really just her like she has a three man crew. So Yes, he’s a strong guy, but she’s not by herself. So there’s not that physical threat and he just so is so Endearing and I thought that that also extended When he basically took her home to meet his parents.

They’re not his parents. They’re just You This older couple that he knows, but it’s like his mentor. Yeah. Yeah. Is that Eugene? Is that what his name

Neal: is

Craig: supposed to be? And, okay guys, I’m sure you read this. It’s no surprise to you. If this is true that he was supposed to be Billy from Black Christmas, I’m not sure why they didn’t call that out.

They called everything out.

Neal: Yeah, they wrote it as that. And then they thought that that would probably be a bridge, a bridge too far, so they didn’t. They, they allude to it, but they don’t confirm it. It’s, it’s just funny to me that that’s a bridge too far, like.

Clip: Right?

Neal: Okay. I don’t know, maybe there’s, maybe there was some intellectual property that they could Yeah, that could, yeah.

I don’t know. Sure, sure. Maybe, yeah. I thought that Scott Wilson character, Eugene, really. Helped add another layer and grounds the movie and makes it feel like yeah, this actually could it helps flesh out the universe

Clip: Yeah, oh gosh,

Neal: it lends credence to These things happening. Yeah, they talk about Freddy.

They talk about Jason, but here’s a guy who also Participated in that world of, of killing, made it out, and he is living a life afterwards. And his wife, Jamie,

Todd: apparently

Neal: was his survivor girl. Okay, I wasn’t sure. Oh

Craig: really? I didn’t catch that. I thought that was alluded to, like I thought that at some point some, they had some kind of quip about chasing, like, well you finally caught me, or something like that.

Neal: Yeah, Taylor asks, how do you survive an encounter with you guys? And he says, you know, You, you pick a spot as far away as you can and you run towards it and you don’t stop running until you see daylight. And Jamie kind of. Elbows him in the ribs and it’s like, I was pretty fast, wasn’t I? And, and he was like, yeah, and you caught me or some, or one of them says, yeah, you caught me.

So it kind of implies that she was, uh,

Todd: being chased by him at some point. I love that. Over my head completely.

Craig: I, I, I kinda caught it. I thought that that’s what it must be because she, she doesn’t seem a lot younger than him, but she seems a little bit and she’s very beautiful. Gosh. Yes. Yeah. She’s she’s gorgeous.

But before that, before he says something about picking a spot and running, they’re both giving advice and her advice is don’t hang out with virgins.

I thought that was so funny. And like, if, if you’re hanging out with the Virgin, get some. Somebody in her pants or get out of there.

Neal: That’s just good life advice.

Craig: Oh my gosh. And there were tons. Uh, seriously, if, if, if you are a fan of horror at all, really, you really should watch this movie because it’s a really, really clever horror comedy.

And I’m not trying to wrap up cause there’s still a million things. I want to talk about the first one that comes to mind. I’m sorry, Neil. This is me rambling again. It’s been the only thing that’s been on my mind since we started talking. And I insist that I get it out that Zelda Rubinstein is in this movie.

So great.

Todd: Her last movie before she died. What a

Craig: treasure.

Neal: She’s great. Like, she instantly, she nails her part. Her job is to communicate the lore, to help bring the survivor girl into the world that Leslie is trying to create. And she does it beautifully. It’s the first time we see Leslie in the mask.

Holloran appears and has any kind of meaningful interaction. It’s just that there’s so much that happens within that scene. It’s great.

Craig: And it’s set up so well, like we know how it’s going to be set up because Leslie explains it to us, like, I’m going to plant this and then she’s going to find it. And then she’s going to talk to the librarian and the librarian is going to tell her the story, but then she’s going to say, Oh, don’t worry.

It’s just a story. And, and then that’s exactly what happens. with Zelda Rubenstein. Gosh, like I, I remember hearing when she passed away, but it’s been a long time ago. It was probably before we started the podcast. Otherwise we definitely would have done a tribute. Uh, I just, she is so funny to me. And of course I love her in the poltergeist movies.

She was in like, 16 candles to, I think, oh, Teen Witch. Don’t want to forget Teen Witch. Teen Witch. But also here, like, she’s just being Zelda Rubenstein. Like, she’s being Tangina from Poltergeist. And that was a huge highlight for me. She gives you everything you

Neal: want from an appearance from her.

Craig: Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Except, I feel like I blinked and I missed when he killed her. Did he cut her

Neal: throat? So, the cut, the editing is weird there. It, it almost feels like maybe she might have fainted. I don’t know. Yeah, I wasn’t sure. Because there was no consequence after that. Like, if you think, if they killed the librarian, there’d be, like, that’s where Taylor and her crew would be like, Oh wait, this is real.

Craig: And Kelly seems fine after it, like it’s,

Neal: she gets over it really quick. The whole universe didn’t seem to mourn the loss of Zelda very

Clip: much.

Neal: And I think her name in the movie was Miss Collinwood, which is the castle from Dark Shadows. Like, I’m telling you, like, real deep horror trivia. They, the writers of this inserted stuff all over the place that were not I

Craig: caught only a few of them.

I caught when there were some girls in, like, baptismal gowns doing jump rope in the

Neal: back. I’m glad you saw that in the background

Craig: of the, uh, college

Neal: scene.

Todd: Right at the beginning.

Craig: I noticed that. I mean, the ones in the very beginning are, you know, Like, they call them out. Like, they specifically show you the house on Elm Street.

They specifically show you Haddonfield. They specif It’s not like it’s clever, but there are things There are other ones that I read about that I definitely didn’t see. Like, I guess in Eugene’s house on a table, there’s a lament configuration from Hellraiser. Certainly did not see that.

Neal: Yep, it looks like a tissue box sitting on the, uh, table.

Craig: Were

Neal: there,

Craig: were there

Neal: others

Craig: that, cause I love that

Neal: stuff. Yeah the turtles are named Zoe and Chance. Sorry, Zoe and Church, which are the pets from Pet Sematary 1 and 2. Right,

Clip: right,

Neal: right. Yeah, so there’s stuff like that just sprinkled throughout. Doc Halloran is named after Dick Halloran from

Clip: The Shining.

Oh yeah, right.

Neal: When Leslie’s putting on his makeup, the flame retardant makeup. Where they show that scene he’s sitting in front of the mirror, and he’s talking to Taylor about it. He makes a face that is an homage to Donald Sutherland in Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Clip: Oh,

Neal: I didn’t guess that one.

Clip: Yeah, yeah,

Neal: he makes the same face that he make that Donald Sutherland makes when he points and he’s, you know, revealed himself as a pod person.

So there’s there’s stuff throughout that just if if you’re looking for it, or if you’re like me and just a complete weirdo about it, you seek those out and catch them. So I’m glad some of that stuff actually, like, Still came across like the kids, the nightmare kids doing the jump rope in the background.

Oh, I loved

Craig: it. I, I loved that. And, and for the most part, I mean, again, points to make sure we talk about, we may as well do it now. You mentioned Doc Halloran played by Robert England, like, yes. How, I don’t know. I didn’t do enough research on like, how did this director get. All of these icons, you’ve got Freddy Krueger, you’ve got Jason Voorhees, you’ve got Tangina.

I know Tangine is not as big a get but like, seriously, Robert England. I kind of wish that they had done more with him. I thought it was hilarious what they did. I thought that it was hilarious that they made him a Dr. Loomis clone.

Clip: You know where he is, don’t you? He’s not who you think he is. What’s he calling himself now?

Leslie Vernon? How perfect. I, I, I don’t know. I don’t know who that is. His name is Leslie Mancuso. From Reno, Nevada. You have no idea who you’re dealing

Craig: with. That was great. I wish he would maybe have been a little bit more in it, but still he’s behind the scenes. I loved that.

Neal: Yeah, he’s the ahab That was such a great Convention that they played on there, right?

You know every serial killer needs somebody to come after him It legitimizes their work and it it really kind of adds another layer to it But uh, so there’s a great behind the scenes interview with robert englund where he talks about the How he came across this script and he says, you know, when you’ve been in the business as long as I have, you get sent scripts all the time.

Some of them are good. Some of them are not so good. And I was watching, I was reading this one in the middle of the evening, got late night TV on my wife is cooking dinner or whatever. And next thing you know, it’s two o’clock in the morning. I’m still reading it and I couldn’t put it down. So he, he loved the script and it’s because of him that they got Scott Wilson.

And so, Uh, the Eugene character, uh, he called him up and said, you’ve got to come and do this. You’d be perfect for it. And Wilson, same deal. He, he thinks that they should have turned this into a play and done this on the road.

Todd: Oh, it’s interesting.

Craig: Well, it’s, it’s definitely, I don’t know if I could see it on stage, especially the last act, which we haven’t really talked a lot about, but I, the first part, especially I could see how it could be a play because it feels very much like a character study.

It feels a lot like creep. Frankly, except for instead of just one guy with a camera following a weirdo around. It’s a crew of people following a weirdo around and endearing weirdo. But, but then the third act I thought was. I thought that that was exactly, you know, he, it played out exactly as he said it would.

Mostly are we to believe that Leslie knew that Taylor was the final girl from the beginning? Cause if so, that’s pretty impressive, I guess.

Neal: Yeah, I think, I think from the very beginning he knew, he knew all of it was going to play out exactly that way, including Taylor. Her crew having the change of heart and trying to help save the kids instead of participate in the event.

I

Craig: hope that you’re right and I believe that you are because I think that that’s the most interesting way to take the story. And again, I know I’ve already mentioned it, but going back to that conversation where they have shown I think a little bit of reluctance and he says to them, look, you guys should leave.

I’ve got to do what I got to do. Like, I, I feel like he gives them an out.

Todd: Yeah. Well, he kind of gives each one of them like a farewell. Yeah. He’s kind of very intentional about it.

Craig: Well, and I, and I think that that that’s fair. Like they know who he is. They know what he’s going to do. And if they try to interfere.

And I think that he was a good, a good bro for giving him a heads up. He, he,

Neal: he wished them luck and then one of the cameramen says, you too.

Todd: And then like a boss, Taylor jumps in the room with him and they’re, and I mean, I’m just sitting here thinking, how are they going to stay out of the way while he does this? I was just so into the movie at this point because it, I did not expect it to go this far and it started to get really disturbing because now this team is here going to ostensibly, well, are they going to tape these murders, you know, how are they going to cut it into their documentary?

Like, these are some real actual moral dilemmas here that they’re going on. And so they’re in the room next door while like two of the people from downstairs or upstairs screwing in the bedroom. Um, And he goes in and hack, hack, hack, and you hear it all happen off screen. Taylor’s obviously disturbed and the guy, I think one of the guys turns to her and goes, Oh shit, this is really happening.

Should I be getting any of this?

Oh my God.

Neal: Yeah. Good job, cameraman. I don’t know if that was Doug or Todd,

Todd: but,

Neal: uh,

Todd: I appreciated that there was still some levity to this, but it was getting pretty serious and I was disturbed and I was really into it. And now I’m thinking, okay, are they going to be in danger if they try to interfere? What happens if they pop their cameras in and then it startles one of the other people and turns them onto Leslie?

Leslie gets angry and then turns on them. You know, there’s just so many different ways this could go. And one of the things that the film does, which I think is really, really smart, is it switches. Suddenly, when it becomes about the journalists and everything, we’re in movie mode. There’s like documentary mode, where everything’s through the camera, and the cameramen are behind, and it looks, you know, shot on video, and the whole nine yards, and shaky cam.

But then, there are a couple moments. First, early on, there are just a couple of them. But as soon as we’ve had this switch and when it’s about the journalist, now the movie looks like a slasher movie. It’s lit like a slasher movie. It, the cinematography is like a slasher movie. And now we’re watching

Craig: it.

Let me jump in just really quick with an example. My favorite example of that was when they were showing that archway outdoors, it was the opposite of phallic imagery, like the outdoor that she had to walk. Okay. Yeah. So, so when they. Film it through the documentary. Of course, it’s very beautiful. It’s a beautiful set piece.

But then later when it’s not the documentary anymore in the film, the lighting, it looks like pet cemetery or something like, so yes, I think that’s very, very clever filmmaking that I mentioned earlier, the structure, but just the difference between the documentary feel and then the film. feel of the end.

Todd: It upped the production value of this movie tremendously. Like up to those moments, you know, it just sort of seemed like this was another found footage type movie shot on a low budget. But then when it gets into the movie thing, it looks, it looks just as slick as any slasher movie from the nineties or early 2000s.

It looks just like it. And so I thought it gave the movie a lot of cred too. You know what I mean?

Neal: I think so. I, I, I totally get that. The use of two. Cameramen to document what was happening was also kind of a really good cheater convention, I guess. They said that one of the cameramen would intentionally shoot kind of dutch style with the the angles and stuff and the other one Would shoot more straight on so you could get alternate angles based on which cameraman was shooting it But then you also It didn’t just feel like a single cam the whole way through, like you could get those cuts in between from different perspectives of the same action that you would get from a normal movie, but then it would look much better when they cut to that cinematic version of the film.

And there’s no score on the documentary parts, but anytime they do, like Leslie, Talking through a hypothetical scenario. Those parts would have a score to it when they did the opening scene

Clip: With

Neal: the girl throwing the trash away in the dumpster that part has some music laid over it So it really kind of helps get you.

All right here. We’re watching the movie here. We’re watching the documentary here. We’re watching the movie

Todd: Yeah, it was I didn’t really score, but you’re right. I mean it was definitely there. Yeah, you’re right

Neal: Yeah for a first time director, I think they they really got the most out of their money for this

Todd: I think so, too.

I was super I

Neal: do too

Craig: This happens all the time, but like, uh, I watch a movie and I’m like, I’m not really exactly sure how I feel about it. And then I sit down and talk about it. And here I am an hour later. I’m like, no, it’s great. You should watch it.

It’s great. There’s so much going on. There’s so many good things about it, but I agree with you. I’m not, I don’t know. I didn’t hear of it either. And I usually have. My eye on the industry, I feel like I kind of have my finger on the pulse. What I, what I have heard is, you know, in the years since it’s come out, it definitely has a following.

Like there are people out there who are big fans of this movie and are like, watch this movie. And I only didn’t because I mistook it. But also I knew when it was over. Okay. So there’s a setup for the ending. It all ends with a cider press,

Todd: an apple cider press. We knew that was coming and

Craig: the final girl and the bad guy with his head in the cider press.

But again, like that was an emotional scene for me. Like it was just a closeup on his face. Face, what does he say? He says something I’m, so

Neal: glad you were the one or something or I just knew you were going to be the one

Craig: You

Neal: guys it’s a love story

They have so many Tight, emotional, like, fleeting moments where you’re like, Oh, these two are into each other. And then, and then it, And then the things move.

Todd: But, I’ve got a question for you guys on this, on this last bit. Like, do you think that was part of his preparation too? That he wouldn’t actually be killed by the Cider Press?

Or was he killed by the Cider Press? The way I interpret it, because he points out this, Oh yeah, I’ve got big plans for the Cider Press at the end. And assuming everything went according to his plan, She kills him in the Cider Press, Or thinks she kills him in the Cider Press, Because later during the And then burns him up, burns up Oh, burns up the Yeah, and then sets fire to everything, right?

Which is classic. So Then, as you said earlier, Craig, there’s a post credits scene where his body is pulled out and the guy who’s getting ready to do the autopsy or whatever, prep the body, his back is turned to him, and just as the credits are about to end, you see him sit up, which we all saw coming, it follows the convention, but it makes me think that maybe, again, all of the stuff that he’s been doing has been to follow convention, so I wondered if, too, he had prepared himself to fake his death and resurrect himself again.

Did you guys think that at all?

Neal: I did, and it was because of him mentioning, when he was putting on the makeup, that it was a mixture of Preparation H and his own homemade fire retardant.

Craig: Yes! Right!

Neal: So he knew that he was going to get burnt up at some point. And so he had planned for that and then This is not in the movie.

This is something I saw later But either the director or one of the producers posted on tiktok or something how? Leslie faked his death.

Clip: Oh while

Neal: he’s how while he’s in the cider press it cuts to a Underneath the cider press, his hand reaches under and grabs a nutcracker and cracks a walnut at the same time that Taylor spins the thing.

So, she doesn’t go back to check. The original intent was the mask would shatter under the weight of the thing, pressing on him. But they, this little clip, it’s like a 15 second clip, but it shows, you know, him Getting his head put into the cider press her twisting twisting and then it cuts to this shot of his hand reaching under Grabbing this walnut cracker and then she does the final spin and you hear the crunch and then it cuts away Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Craig: Man That’s funny

Clip: Oh,

Craig: it is really clever.

I was just under the impression. Cause he says at one point, this night’s going to end one of three ways. Like either I’m going to be on the run or I’m going to be on death row or I’m going to be dead or something like that. So I think that he was prepared for. He knew that he might be bested. And I felt like in that moment at the end, he was like, well, if this is the way that it was going to happen, I’m glad it was you like, it’s even though, you know, it’s, it’s still, even for him, a satisfying ending now, whether or not he planned it or whether or not he knew that he would rise again, I mean, he probably thought he might cause they always do, or maybe, maybe they always have a nutcracker or Something that fakes their death.

I don’t know, but

Neal: I was gonna say I heard that they had actually shot a different ending where Taylor is on Trial for the events that happened on that night.

Clip: Oh

Neal: Uh, because, you know, she’s the only one, she’s the primary survivor. Somebody had to do all of these murders and stuff, so she’s on, on trial, but they, they ended up not keeping it because they didn’t have enough people.

They wanted the courtroom to really feel full and stuff, but the way they had shot it was that Taylor’s on trial. They’ve got a live feed of the coroner’s office, the feed that we see. And Doc Halloran bursts in and it’s like, you guys don’t know what you’re doing. He’s planned this the whole time. This is what he wants.

He needs an audience. He needs an audience. And that’s when you see him sit up

Clip: Take out

Neal: the coroner and then swipe the camera and then that’s how the movie ends That would have been kind of glad they didn’t go with that It’s I mean, it’s cool, but i’m glad they didn’t go with that. I think that you can actually see a plot Like, two seconds of that, in one of the trailers, you see Robert Englund yelling, He needs an audience!

Clip: Um,

Neal: it’s in one, one trailer that’s still floating around out there. But they said they didn’t keep it because they couldn’t have enough people to make the courtroom look believable. If he’s terrorized this whole town, you, you would probably want. Or if somebody has terrorized this whole town and is using the town’s legend as a backdrop for committing a bunch of murders, you’d think that the courtroom would be fully

Todd: packed up.

I mean, the reason I think it would be cool is because I was kind of waiting for the Doc Hallorann character to come back in and do something at the end, you know, kind of like in Halloween, you know, where he walks out. Michael Myers’s body is suddenly not there. You know, I thought there would be some moment anyway for him to kind of have a last thing instead of well, he’s alive and he kind of limps away and then that’s the last you see of him.

Craig: His whole role is very much a cameo. He has maybe, what, one or two lines. I don’t know. Still happy

Neal: to see him. Still fun. Yeah, and he’s why I made the suggestion, because he just got his star on the Walk of Fame.

Todd: That’s right! Yeah. Well deserved. Very well deserved, that star. What

Neal: did you think of the use of, uh, Psycho Killer over the final credits?

Clip: I

Neal: loved it. What a perfect

Clip: song.

Neal: I have had that in my head. All week because of this, I can’t stop playing it and humming it. Well, the

Todd: movie sets itself up for a sequel and supposedly they, they did write script, but what I read, and I don’t remember how long ago this was, um, the director just kind of reevaluated and said, look, if we were to shoot this, a sequel to this, obviously we want the right script and the sequel script that we already wrote.

It’s too dated. by now because I don’t know, it’s kind of like more going to be referencing the torture porn era and the found footage and stuff like that. And that’s so far behind us now that I think they were like, that would, that would feel too dated if we did that now. Thankfully, the slasher thing is not still not dated, right?

Like that seems like pretty evergreen. So this movie, like I said, it feels like it could have been shot yesterday. And the reason why I like and I recommend it is because I do get a little tired of the meta horror movies. Just because I get it now, you know, like how many ways can you tell me the same things?

You know, how many ways can you rattle off the conventions to me and then ha ha I see that you subvert them Or something like that This movie just does it in a totally different way I’ve never seen and in a way that you know from that perspective of us being behind the the killer in this very mundane Sort of way And also him being so affable and all that and the layers that we’ve just kind of brought up in in here I just Thought this movie was so clever and so fun.

I was just with it the whole time and I loved it and I can’t believe I hadn’t seen it and I can’t believe that the reason I hadn’t seen it is not popular. People don’t know about it. What the hell? How do people not know about this movie? So my recommendation is you guys are listening to this podcast.

You’re as big a horror fan as we are. You are going to be the people who are going to eat this up and it’s going to be a very different kind of metal horror than you’ve seen before. You got to give it a try and you got to go out and watch it. It’s great.

Neal: Yep. You can find it on YouTube. The whole movie streaming.

Todd: That’s where we watch it. Yeah, good quality. We’re all about free.

Neal: Good quality. Perfect quality. Even the the gratuitous boob shot in there is intact.

Craig: I’m so glad you brought it up. It was on my list. I think he just crossed off the page.

Neal: I want to make sure that that got mentioned because I don’t want anybody to be caught off guard.

Craig: Oh god and the like it comments on itself like oh my god isn’t that a little gratuitous as she’s popping her nipples out.

Oh, so good. So good. Good job. Good job. No, I’m,

Neal: I’m so You should,

Craig: you should host a

Neal: podcast. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Maybe I’ll bring one back at some point. You know, I’m happy to come on and chat with you guys at any time. If you got other movies and you just feel you want to break things up a little bit.

Feel free, give me a call. I will Oh

Craig: man, it was a great time. It’s been a pleasure having you on

Neal: the show. Thank you guys so much, and thank you for all the years of great content. Thank you for doing my suggestions. You guys got me with Once Bitten, and Anna and the Apocalypse, and this is probably the third or fourth suggestion that I’ve gotten.

given you guys, that you guys have done. So I can’t say enough how much I appreciate it.

Todd: Wow. That’s true. Neil’s been feeding the fire more than I remember.

Craig: I remember, I, I remember how excited Todd and I were about Anna and the Apocalypse, like neither of us We’re like, holy

Neal: shit!

Craig: Why have

Todd: we not heard this one before?

Neal: It’s like Christmas movie, horror movie, musical. Come on now, how has this not been done before?

Todd: You’re our research wing. Oh

Neal: I will, I’ll shoot you guys whatever I can think of that would be a fun watch and a fun conversation.

Todd: Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Neil. And thank you all your listeners out there for joining us for yet another week. We really appreciate each and every one of you. If you want to leave us a message like Neil did, all you’ve got to do is go to our website, ChainsawHorror. com And there’s a little link at the top that says talk to us.

You can leave us a quick message. You don’t have to download any special software or anything like that. And, uh, and that’ll shoot right to us. And we, we listen to those. We respond to those. We love hearing from you in whatever form that takes. You can also leave us a message on any one of our places. Uh, just two guys in a chainsaw podcast.

We’ll take you to our website where there’s a comment section. We’ll take you to our Facebook page where we post stuff up on Instagram. Also, our Patreon, patreon. com slash, uh, Chainsaw Podcast. If you go there, you will also have a chance to get behind the scenes like Neil has himself and become part of the crew.

Chat, chat back there, uh, vote on the requests that we have coming up. A lot of good stuff going on behind the scenes. Please consider supporting us back there as well. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. And I’m Neil. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw

View Details

          Halloween 2024 is at hand! No better film for this week than this family-friendly Netflix release. It’s dumb and corny and predictable, but the SFX are fantastic, it’s adequately scary-yet-kid-friendly, and just chock-full of Halloween fun.

New kid moves into a new town and unleashes ancient magic from an artifact she found in the attic of her historic house. Sound familiar? Despite an under-utilized cast of stars, groan-worthy cliches and flat jokes, there’s some easygoing magic at work here that will appeal to kids and adults alike who can handle the surprisingly scary Halloween decorations that come to life as fodder for Marlon Wayans’ chainsaw.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptThe Curse of Bridge Hollow (2022)

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Happy Halloween!

Craig: It’s your Halloween voice again. Happy Halloween to you.

Todd: It’s more of a slogan than a voice. It only says those words.

Craig: Next year. Next year you can monologue or something. I don’t know. Yeah, it’s exciting.

Honestly, like, I love Christmas. Don’t get me wrong, and we’ll totally celebrate Christmas too, but I think that I feel more about Halloween the way most people feel about Christmas. Like, it’s my favorite. Holiday. I just love everything about it. Same here. And I love that my neighbors across the street have like a whole geta like they’ve got like a, a graveyard set up and they’ve got skeletons walking skeleton dogs and they’ve The Nightmare Before Christmas projection on their house.

Todd: Oh nice. You do live in a neighborhood and a town, really, that, that still hasn’t, you know, still put some effort into, you know, decorating the house, I assume, you know, you get some trick or treaters here and there, but I think the last Halloween I had there, I maybe had three. Five groups of trick or treaters come to the door all night long, and I was super depressed.

Craig: Yeah, trick or treating is not as much a thing anymore. I think that some Gen Xers, you know, are still trying to hang on to it for their kids, but it’s mostly, it’s mostly trunk or treats, which is nice, but it’s not the same.

Todd: You know, I’m double irritated at the trunk or treat. Number one, it’s lame compared to the real deal.

And number two, it’s sort of born out of this false narrative that trick or treating is dangerous. I

Craig: know, I know. We talk about this all the time. We are so precious about kids these days. And I get it, I get it. You gotta make sure your kids are safe. But we managed to survive somehow. Anyway, whatever. Yeah.

I love Halloween. Yes. And you’re right, in, in my town, first of all, my neighborhood is very residential. My house especially is on a street that’s like an interior street. Like, there’s no reason for you to be on my street unless you live on it.

Todd: Yeah, so get off my lawn.

Craig: I just mean practically. Right, I know what

Todd: you

Craig: mean. Hahaha. So there’s, there’s very little traffic and, and my neighborhood is, uh, You know, middle class families and yeah, people are still really into it. The people across the street from me have the best display. Most people just put out a lot of inflatables.

I like the spirit of inflatables, but

Todd: it’s lazy. It feels lazy.

Craig: I like, I appreciate the spirit, folks. I really, really do. Well,

Todd: and I suppose people appreciate the saving of, uh, space, you know?

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: My god. I, I, seriously, there used to be so much of my garage devoted just to Halloween decorations that were sitting there for most of the year.

Craig: I know, and we don’t do it at all because, for that exact reason, we just don’t have the space to store the stuff. Ugh, unfortunate. But anyway. Yeah, so I’m glad that we are doing, I don’t remember exactly how it worked out that we ended up doing this for the Halloween

Todd: episode. I put it down that way because this felt like it would probably be the most Halloween of the movies that we did this month, and uh, I kind of think it is.

Craig: Yeah, me too. And that’s the thing that I love the most about it. So the movie that we’re doing is 2022’s The Curse of Bridge Hollow. It’s a Netflix original, and that’s where I watched it. Alan and I watched it last year, because we had never seen it before. And I had heard good things about it. And we both liked it.

I remember liking it a lot. And it’s so Halloween y, like, that’s my favorite thing about it. Like this is a movie about Halloween and everything in it is about Halloween. And it’s, it’s fun. It’s not the best movie I’ve ever seen. I don’t love it as much as I love The Worst Witch.

Clip: I mean, it’s no The Worst Witch.

You’re

Todd: not going to gush over this like you did The Worst Witch. Well, first of all, there’s no music in this one. You don’t have any songs to sing to us. That’s going to be the saddest part of this.

Craig: That’s really not all that sad. I listened back to that and, oh boy, that was something. You guys

Todd: were done dirty by the delay, you know, there’s the natural delay between the two of you, but you, you would have been singing in sweet, sweet harmony, like chorus girls and boys.

I know.

Craig: I know.

Todd: Otherwise, just like you did when you were children.

Craig: I actually really like a lot of things about this movie. It’s a fun story. The thing that kind of perplexes me is I’m not exactly sure who the target audience, because. It feels very much coded for children. Yes. But I think that many average children who are not like you and me might get really scared.

Like, and the effects are so good. And I’m not saying they’re brilliant, but they’re so good that I think that they might be really scary for kids. Like, this stuff looks real.

Todd: Yeah, and that was one thing that, you know, I’m always watching movies like this thinking, Oh, would this be something I could watch with my son?

No. Not yet. Not yet. I don’t think so. He’s seven and he’s a little touchy about these things. He definitely couldn’t see this yet. And that was what I was thinking. I was like, you know, for what I was imagining to be and what, you know, Otherwise, sort of felt like a, oh, light hearted, breezy, lower budget movie with a very cookie cutter type script and whatnot to throw out at Halloween time like you would throw together one of these Hallmark Lifetime Christmas movies, you know?

There was a lot of care put into it. In the special effects department. It’s actually really, really good. I mean, it’s Hollywood blockbuster style, good special effects. Even when the mix of practical and the computer generated, it’s seamless. And the computer generated doesn’t look cheap at all. To the point where you can’t even tell sometimes when You’re what you’re looking at his computer generator, whether it’s practical I just think it’s that well done and that more than anything else about this movie really blew me away I was like gosh.

This is a nice movie to watch it. It looks good. It does the effects are great There’s nothing distracting in there, you know in that regard. I thought it was a fun ride

Craig: There’s always something going on. Like it’s just scene after scene after scene with new things happening. And it’s a very simple conceit that we’ll get to in just a second.

But you said you wouldn’t show it to your seven year old son. I wouldn’t show it to my 16 year old nephew. He is, he doesn’t like scary stuff in general, but he’s particularly freaked out by zombies and there are zombies in this movie and they are Straight out of a grown up horror movie like yeah, they don’t pull any punches as I guess is what I’m saying Yeah, when it comes to the scary stuff, and there’s definitely silly stuff too But when it comes to the scary stuff, they don’t pull any punches and they go hard.

There’s there’s really scary zombies and really scary clowns

Todd: Yeah, evil clowns with real axes and machetes, swinging them around, uh, doing damage to, you know, the set. I was surprised at how scary those, those things were. And everything in here glows with red eyes. And, I don’t know, you know, a skeleton is ten times more scary when it’s got red eyes burning at you.

So, yeah, it’s like they just amped everything up. And then I thought the final villain as well, all of it looked very spooky. In that regard It was cool that they didn’t pull any punches in that department. That being said, nobody dies in this movie. And you know it’s gonna be a movie like that, right?

Craig: Oh, sure.

Sure.

Todd: And I love the idea that the way they kept it so PG. I think it’s technically TV 14. But same difference, really. The way they kept it that way is, almost all of the monsters in this movie are actually Halloween decorations come to life. Ha ha ha! Right! Which is a really super smart way of avoiding gore!

Right! When they knock these things down, or they chop their heads off, or they hack them in two, or one particularly interesting chainsaw scene. You know, it’s just stuffing that’s coming out of them, or, you know. Bits of cardboard and wood. They just

Craig: break, right? Yeah, they just

Todd: break and they fall to the ground.

And so, on the one hand, you know, it’s like, the danger is real. On the other hand, in the back of my mind, I keep going, but they’re still just animated decorations. These aren’t actual zombies from hell, which happens at one point when a character gets bit by one of them and he starts freaking out like,

Clip: I’ll tell you what happened here!

One of these zombies just bit me! Huh? Oh, God. Does that mean I’m gonna turn into one of them? Is that how this works? You can’t let me turn. You gotta shoot me. Blow my head off, man. What? No, I’m not gonna shoot you. I don’t wanna turn into a zombie! You’re not gonna turn into a zombie! Zombies are fictional creations, okay?

Dead bodies don’t have functioning nervous systems, which means they can’t move. Basic biology. I didn’t understand a single word you just said. Maybe I should handcuff myself to the porch just in case, huh? Or You can get a tetanus shot. Yeah, good call Bill Nye the Science Guy.

Todd: Burn. So it even provided a little bit of comedy, you know, as well.

Craig: There’s, there’s lots of comedy. It is a comedy. I don’t know, I didn’t find it hilarious, but it was funny. The basic story is Howard, played by Marlon Wayans, one of the very famous and very funny Wayans brothers, and his wife Emily, Kelly Rowland, The Kelly Rowland. The Kelly Rowland, yeah. Destiny’s Child. Of Destiny’s Child and Freddy vs.

Jason. She’s a fine actress. She’s fine. She’s fine. I actually felt bad for her because this, well, and they have a daughter, Sydney, who’s played by Priya Ferguson, who, the only other thing that I’ve seen her in is is Stranger Things, but she came on like in the second or third season of that show playing one of the main character’s younger sisters, and just like steals the show in every scene she’s in.

Oh yeah? She is hilarious. So funny. Both she, but even more so Kelly Rowland, I felt kind of bad like they weren’t really given much to do. Right. Kelly Rowland is Confined to that baking sale for

Todd: the whole movie.

Craig: Yeah,

Todd: she, it’s a very, OneNote, thematically, her character is like very OneNote and very absent from almost all of the action really.

Craig: They’re all kind of OneNote to be honest. Like the writing isn’t amazing. I just like, I do like the story, but the way that the characters are written is, is kind of one note. Like the dad is a science teacher and he’s obsessed with science. And he hates Halloween and he hates anything, like, I don’t know, like, supernatural or whatever because it’s not scientific and you can’t prove it and it’s dumb.

Todd: And they hammer this home so hard because it’s So hard. The movie leaves you with the impression that this man views everything in his life through the lens of, Can I make this into a science lesson? It’s tiresome. I mean, you’re very kind when you say the writing is, What is, what was the word you used? I don’t know.

Not, it’s okay and not bad? I don’t know, you might have said that. I think the writing’s terrible. I mean, it’s not terrible. The dialogue. The dialogue is dumb. That’s my point. It’s so cookie cutter. It’s almost like what would have come out of a script writing class. Like, here are the beats you need. Here are the elements you need.

And then these are the most cliche ways that you can put those beats and elements together. So let’s just. Do that. There are jokes, but I don’t think there’s any, any much new. No. To the jokes. You can see them coming from a mile away. Some of them are even a little cringey. Groaners. I don’t know. It’s just not hip, edgy in the slightest.

There’s nothing edgy about this movie.

Craig: You’re right. Like I, I, and I want to agree with you and I feel like I’m falling into a trap and that I’m going to start talking bad about this movie. I, I think that honestly, that really wasn’t. of my mind because didn’t really care. Like I was willing to overlook that because it was so fun to watch.

Gotcha. Yeah. So, you know, honestly, like I was paying attention to what was happening and I was listening to the words they were saying, but that’s not what I was there for. I hear you. The stuff that I was there for. paid off. Like I was really satisfied. They moved to this new town. I mean, it’s, we open on the shining shot of their car driving through a forest and it’s fun.

You know, they’re singing hit the road, Jack, which is like thematic throughout the whole. And the parents are nerdy and goofy and the daughter’s annoyed and eye rolly, and they’re moving to this new town and she’s mad because they’re making her move to a small town, but they are moving out of the city, like the same setup that we have seen for 8, 000 movies.

Yeah.

Todd: Nothing new here. No,

Craig: it’s God. But they, they, they, they cross a covered bridge into their new town of bridge hollow. Which is, Americana, like, New England in the fall, rich white people.

Todd: Isn’t this the same backlot set that they use for like, Back to the Future, and something wicked this way comes? If it isn’t, it is.

It looks like it.

Craig: I mean, especially like the town square. Yeah, that’s what I mean.

Todd: Cute little old town. Everybody’s busy and boisterous and very Halloween. That’s the thing about this movie that I, and I liked this too.

Craig: And I’m in like from this scene when they first drive in and they’re just driving down the street and they see that every single house has a Extensive and ridiculous Halloween display like oh, yeah, I’m I’m on board.

Yeah

Todd: It was pretty cool and of course like all of them look like they were put together by Hollywood special effects artists Yes, that amazing not a blow up item to be seen. No, not a single inflatable

Craig: Not one and they look great and their next door neighbor has a yard full of zombies and he’s funny There’s lots of funny people in this like Sully.

Yeah, Rob Riggle. He’s been in a lot of stuff. He’s a funny guy He’s not in this very much. No, but he’s pretty good when he’s in it. He’s he’s

Todd: iconic.

Craig: He’s

Todd: funny He’s again, but also I mean he is that stereotypical Character right the good old boy Easygoing, slappy on the back, former military dude who can’t wait to shoot his guns, drinks beer.

We’ve seen this a million times.

Craig: I know, and see now, I know, now that we’re talking about it, now I’m really thinking about it, and like, the cracks are showing, like, It’s, it’s, it’s too bad that That I had to point these out to you? Well, no, I feel like you already alluded to it, but it’s so cliché and it’s just like, just throwing in every cliché of these kinds of movies, like here you’ve got the kind of eccentric But they don’t really do anything with them, really.

It’s at some point the daughter, the dad still is like the, the neighbor wants to like loan him decorations. Like we’re all really excited about Halloween. And the dad’s like, uh, yeah, no thanks. Like, So you got a theme?

Clip: No. You like werewolves? Not particularly. Cause I got a whole shed full of werewolves.

That’s real wolf fur. I don’t even know if it’s legal. And I don’t care cause it’s Halloween. Oh, no thanks. We’re good. Really? We don’t decorate. Jehovah’s Witness. No, I just think it’s kind of silly. What? I mean, do you still believe in Santa Claus? Why, what have you heard? Is he okay?

Craig: He’s just such a stick in the mud and it goes on for so long.

Like, bro, like, calm down.

Todd: He doesn’t even feel like a real person at that point. Nobody is that bad of a stick in the mud, you know?

Craig: Right. Like, okay. So you don’t really care for Halloween. That’s fine. You are new in the neighborhood. They move into a enormous mansion. Also typical. It’s not like a Gothic mansion, but it is an enormous mansion.

Oh, it’s,

Todd: it’s

Craig: bigger than the Amityville house. It’s got huge. And on the inside, you know, like it’s, it’s just stunning. Like woodwork everywhere. Like a huge, like foyer, like, Oh my God, it’s so ridiculous. But seriously, you, you move into a neighborhood and your neighbors are friendly and greet you and say, we are super enthusiastic about Halloween.

You’re like, yeah, I don’t really care about Halloween. They’re like, well, that’s all right. We’ll help you. I have lots of really cool decorations that I’ll loan you. No. Like, do you not even want to, like, make a good impression on your new neighbors?

Todd: Backing away like he can’t get away fast enough when his wife swings by, doesn’t even introduce her, they just kind of go in and, and then the neighbor just kind of chuckles and walks away.

I mean, I would be offended if I were him. Me too! It’s like, what’s wrong

Craig: with you, buddy? So there’s that guy, and we don’t get enough of him, and then when she goes to school, the daughter, when the daughter goes to school, she meets, like, a little gang of misfits.

Todd: Well, she meets them in the cemetery, actually.

Oh, that’s right. I wanted to talk about this for just a second, like, they go into the town square at first, right? They, like, walk. Everything’s within walking distance in this town. It is that small. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And they walk into the town square and they’re setting up for some kind of festival and this woman pulls up in a truck that has this giant jack o lantern.

I love this prop, actually. I love this prop. Love it. It’s like a truck that’s been transformed and half of it just looks like a big jack o lantern and

Craig: It looks like it’s being eaten by a Yeah. Giant evil jackal. Yeah.

Todd: Out pops the mayor. And she is played by, what, Lauren Lapkus? Yeah. She’s hilarious. Yeah, she’s funny.

And she does like voices and things like that. She’s been in a lot of things.

Craig: Yeah. She did a stint on the Big Bang Theory, but she’s been in a lot of things. And she’s very, very funny.

Todd: She’s the kind of person that I always thought was on Saturday Night Live at some point, but isn’t. Ha ha ha ha. No. Like, she just gives that impression, you know?

Oh, she just gives off the former Saturday Night Live player air. True. And anyway, you know, she’s talking about the festival and the town and welcoming there, and just, it’s just very nice and sweet. I mean, again, there’s like, No real conflict here, we’re not setting up any tension, except for this dumb thing where the dad’s just like, Ew, Halloween, you know, everywhere he turns and is openly disdainful.

But everyone else is like, Eh, yeah, whatever, you know, it’s like they almost ignore it or don’t even notice it. And she says, Oh, we got this festival affair going on. And that’s when she brings up the, people can set up booths or something. And that’s when the bakey thing comes in. And the wife goes, wife’s name is.

Uh,

Clip: so, is there gonna be any food at this festival? Of course, yeah, a lot of the local stores are setting up booths. We got hot dogs, funnel cakes, chowder, everything. Uh, is there gonna be any artisanal vegan baked goods? I don’t know what that means, but sure, why not?

Craig: And this is so one note and stupid to like throughout the course of the movie like she eventually does Eventually she said she leaves it’s Halloween night or whatever and she leaves and she sets up her Bake sale at this festival and they just keep coming back to her either via phone call Like the dad will call her for advice or something or they’ll just come back to her as she’s like sitting there Selling her goods.

And every time she’s selling her goods, she sells it to somebody and they just wanna like throw up. Like it’s the most, like they spit it out. Yeah. At one point she gives something to a priest and he takes a bite of it and she’s like, what do you think? And he says, I’m really not supposed to lie. And hands it back to her and walks

Todd: away.

Oh my god. You’re laughing because it’s so dumb. Yeah, not because it’s funny, because it’s dumb. Because every time we come back to this woman and someone tries her goods, it’s like, Uh, yeah, I know what’s gonna happen. Can we just skip past this scene? It’s also just a stupid joke. I would expect this joke like in the 70s or maybe the 80s.

I don’t expect this joke from a movie that was made two years ago. The idea of laughing about how gluten free and vegan stuff tastes bad, we’re long past that. It doesn’t even taste bad anymore.

Craig: No. I mean, it’s still not my favorite, but come on, it’s ridiculous. And like, it’s such a stupid joke, and like, the end cap on it is at the very end of the movie, when everything works out fine, because this is a kid’s movie, everybody ends up around the island in the kitchen the next morning, and the mom’s like, Here, I made some Cinnamon rolls.

And the dad and the daughter are like, UGH. Like don’t eat them. But the other kids eat them and they’re like, these are so good. So the dad and the daughter eat them too and they’re like, oh man, these are good. What’s in them? And she’s like, butter and sugar and gluten. Like, that’s a funny joke.

Todd: And she says, I just.

Life. I just decided life is too short. This is so dumb as to almost be offensive. That’s how dumb it is. I

Craig: don’t know. Maybe kids would think that was funny. I don’t know. Nobody’s

Todd: gonna think that’s funny now. No, it’s

Craig: really stupid

Todd: and poor Kelly Rowland. Poor her. She had to do this and probably had to know how dumb this was.

Like, if you’re gonna dig into a heaping treasure chest of Hollywood cliches. Why is this the one you had to pull out for this movie in 2022? It’s pretty dumb.

Craig: The mayor tells them also about, you know, I guess it’s their local legend of Stingy Jack. Oh, I

Todd: turned his story into a sweater. That was, oh yeah, that was hilarious.

Funniest line in the whole movie. Oh, I turned his story into a sweater. So she’s got a sweater there that and she points to the different elements on the story

Clip: According to an old Irish legend there once lived a wicked man named Stingy Jack And he was such a jerk that the villagers finally had enough and but the devil felt sorry for Jack so he made him a lantern a Pumpkin carved out with a flame the fires of hell Every Halloween, Jack would return to our town, Bridge Hollow, to seek his revenge on the descendants of the villagers who did him in.

Well, at least that’s what we tell the tourists, am I right?

Todd: It was a very, very simple type story. This is a very cutesy script, and there’s nothing innovative about this backstory.

Craig: They, uh, okay, so you said those, the kids meet in the cemetery. Yes, because, because,

Todd: Sid, the girl, is wandering around downtown, and she is looking down an alley and sees a sign that says, Cemetery service entrance?

Yeah, I know, I thought that was funny too. She just walks off screen down this alley, and in the next shot, she’s in this big open field off a cemetery that’s surrounded by trees and woods. I laughed so hard at that. I wondered if it was an intentional joke. It’s so dumb that I thought it was supposed to be funny.

Like, the cemetery is literally right next to the town square and that whole side of the square behind it is just this giant open field with woods around it.

Didn’t even occur to me. And of course, she’s walking through and whatever and then we get a little jump scare because as she walks by a, uh, what are those, like a tomb, right? They’re above ground, kind of mini mausoleum crypts or whatever. Yeah. The door spring open, and three kids come out of it, and they’re all goth.

Well, two of them are goth, and one of them’s Mario. I mean, that’s his name, he’s not the character Mario. I mean, like, they didn’t make all three of them super goth. Mario’s kind of the out, the odd man out, odd man out.

Craig: Yeah, all three of them are kind of supposed to be like outsider kids. Like, there’s Ramona, she’s really short, and she’s the goth one.

She’s got, like, black hair, and we’re his dad. Dark eyeliner. She’s so cute. She’s tiny, but Jamie’s got like purple hair and she’s dressed in she’s got she has blonde hair But she has like purple streaks in it. She’s very pretty. I mean, they’re all cute They’re all kids, but it’s you know, they set it up like oh, here’s their little gang The whole movie by the way, I’ve been meaning to say it since the beginning.

It reminds me a lot of Goosebumps.

Todd: Yeah

Craig: But I think Goosebumps did it better.

Todd: Way better.

Craig: I mean, I don’t want to talk bad about this movie, because ultimately I really get Watching it was a really enjoyable experience.

Todd: I also want to say I’m lovingly making fun of it, because the movie has a bad I didn’t read any of the reviews, but all I saw was like, it’s like a 28 or 38 percent on Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic.

I didn’t even want to read any any a word anybody said about it, because, again, like you, I enjoyed it for what it was, And I’m not going to be too harsh on it, because I think they probably made what they intended to make. They clearly weren’t trying to break any new ground here. They were just trying to make, again, I think like the equivalent of one of those like Hallmark Christmas movies for Halloween and for kids.

So, you know, but I mean, come on. They didn’t try very hard to, you know, color outside of the lines here, you know.

Craig: That’s what I’m saying, like, missed opportunities, because then I thought that this, you know, much like Goosebumps was gonna follow this little ragtag group of kids, but it doesn’t. They’re just kind of hanging out in the background too, and ultimately, I don’t even remember exactly how it happens.

Sidney is in her attic, or goes up to the attic for some reason. No

Todd: she doesn’t! Oh, I can’t wait to talk about this too! Alright, cause I just finished watching it, that’s why it’s so much fresher in my mind. But I made a note, so, at the behest of these kids, because these kids tell her, Oh, you’re the one who just moved into the old Madam Hawthorne’s house, which by the way happens to be the crypt that they walked out of too.

Yeah. And I didn’t know that Crypts in cemeteries just had swinging doors where you could walk in and out of them and nobody gave a shit. They’re locked, but that’s how this cemetery works. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, uh, they’re like, oh, well, you know, they say that her go, her spirit still haunts that place. And she’s like, really?

And they’re like, yeah, we’ve got some homework for you. So she comes home. She goes upstairs by herself into someone’s bedroom down the hall, opens up an iPad, and a Ouija board app. Puts her fingers on the planchette on the touchscreen on the Ouija board app. And I’m like, how is this app supposed to work?

Does the planchette like Move under your fingers, and you’re just supposed to move your fingers along with it or something? Like

Craig: Also, she did not read the terms of agreement, because what is the first rule of Ouija boards? You gotta have more people! You never do it alone. She’s lucky she didn’t get possessed.

I guess so, I just I’ve seen that movie.

Todd: Many times. So anyway, then after she does this, I don’t know, some little wind blows and some spooky sounds happen. And then down at the end of the hall in this beautiful house, a door slowly creaks open. She walks into that door and suddenly we’re like in the f ing attic.

This beautiful house with this second floor, with these rooms and bedrooms and everything is modern and beautiful. For some reason they decided to leave one room. Unfinished from the 19th from the 1850s completely unfinished to the point where there are cobwebs You know laugh and plaster walls you’re seeing in here like nobody stepped in there for

Craig: 50 I don’t remember but are you sure she didn’t go up some stairs because it definitely felt like an attic

Todd: She never went upstairs Stairs, that is the funny thing about this opens the door and steps into this room.

Again, I thought the movie was with me, you know, I thought the movie was trying to be silly, but no, it was really that way. And yeah, she just kind of like trips over some things and knocks a skateboard, which like hits like a tricycle, which hits a lamp and ends up falling into one of these walls.

Craig: Yeah.

It’s like a Rube Goldberg mousetrap type series of events. Something then falls. Into and breaks through a wall and she looks in there and there’s a trunk in there and she pulls it out and She opens it up and there’s an old fashioned Jack o lantern and it’s funny because it’s it’s a whole joke. It’s a turnip It’s a jack o lantern made out of and that’s that’s that tracks Is a legit thing.

Like, yeah, that’s in the olden days. Right. And then more things happen. I don’t remember exactly how it gets set up, but there’s this building conflict between her and her dad. Like he’s so into science and wants her to be into science, but she wants to do other things and she wants to be in the paranormal society and, and the mom is trying to mediate and trying to get the dad to loosen up a little bit.

It all ends up on Halloween night. They’re in the kitchen together. And they’re arguing about something. Yeah. And she has, and she has that jack o lantern.

Todd: Well, I mean, we got there because Dad was gonna forbid her from doing Halloween stuff. He’s like, you don’t do that. Like, we’re not gonna do that. We’re not a superstitious people or something like that.

I mean, he’s a major buzzkill. Dad is. Oh God, yeah. And by the way, We’ve been to the school, because Dad, you know, is the new science teacher there, so he’s introduced to his classroom, and that’s when we meet the principal. Who is this happy go lucky dude who’s played by John

Craig: Michael Higgins. He’s so funny.

He’s delightful. He’s

Todd: always delightful. He’s been in a million things, and Best of Show, and all that stuff. But yeah, so, he was fun, and I just gotta point this part out, too. Like, the dad opens a cabinet. In his room that’s supposed to have chemicals in it and out springs a plastic skeleton that falls on him and he freaks out Like this is the scariest thing that has happened to him in a long time And he’s so shaken by it.

Even when the kids are streaming into the classroom Marlon Wayans just a stand there like oh Staring at that skeleton in the closet. Oh my God, you know when we did the worst witch and you know They were playing terror tag or whatever. Yeah, I felt like this was like Along those same lines. Really?

You’re that scared of I mean, I know you hate halloween. You’re all scientific. He’s scared

Craig: of skeletons Oh, right. He tells that story later like the reason that he is It’s so sciency, it’s because one time when he was a kid, he was playing around an old house or something and, I don’t know, like the floor fell out from underneath him and he fell into the cellar.

When he looked around, the cellar was full of stuff. Skeletons, but they were alive and they were like coming for him and then he was terrified but then the doctors explained to him that sometimes people who get concussions hallucinate and So he had a scientific reason For what happened. And so he knew that everything real had a scientific explanation and that’s why he just cannot wrap his head around anything, but you’re right.

Like he is just such a buzzkill. Like my guy, I get it. Like you’re not into it. That’s cool. Your daughter wants to do it. Like, just,

Todd: what is your problem? Your daughter goes by the, the Yoder’s general store and buys a rubber bat and hangs it over the door, which, as he comes home, he sees it and he yanks it down like he’s angry.

He walks into the kitchen, opens up the trash can, and chucks it in there. Like, alright, maybe you don’t like the fact that she has this bat, but your daughter bought that bat. Are you gonna throw that away?

Craig: And it’s one little tiny decoration, like, calm, Down, sir. Right. But we haven’t even gotten to the fun part of the movie, like, so, like, she, for, she lights the jack o lantern, the, the turnip jack o lantern, um, and then he blows it out but it comes back, it lights back up again, he blows it out and comes, like, it keeps coming on and eventually he throws it in the trash can and then the trash can starts shaking and that bat, that toy bat, that decoration bat that he threw in there flies out and it’s got red eyes.

And it like flies all around and scares them and they’re freaking out or whatever. But eventually it flies out of the house and across the street into a cauldron in a Halloween display with witches.

Todd: With these awesome witches.

Craig: Oh, it’s great. And the, and the cauldron kind of starts to glow red and then the witch’s eyes turn red and they come alive and, and go flying and like they fly across the moon.

It’s so great. All of this is amazing. Like, I love this. It’s so much and

Todd: appropriately scary. I mean, I was like, man, those witches are bad ass and it is so cool and they’re cackling.

Craig: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s great. I mean, it takes time and there’s a series of scenes, but what happens is it’s like it spreads. I think the dad even says sometimes it’s like a virus, like it spreads and it does.

Todd: He says it’s like, it’s like a virus, which makes sense because it started with the bat. Oh my God.

This movie would be banned in China for that alone. I’m just telling you that right now.

Craig: There are also, I thought they made a mistake because I think this is a fun movie that some, like, if you see this when you’re a kid, I think maybe this will be something that you really enjoy and cling to. And I thought that they made a mistake by including some jokes and references that will clearly date it.

Yeah. I mean, that’s one of them, obviously, but I feel like there are just other like pop culture references. Yeah. One of my favorite things is one of the things, like the bat, that is spreading this around is a cat, but it’s like a two dimensional, like, plywood cat that’s running around spreading it, and it spreads it to the neighbor who has the zombies, and the zombies come alive, and those are the first things that the dad and the daughter really have to confront.

And the daughter is awesome. I don’t think she’s well written. I think that the girl who plays her is great. And I just think that she had to say the words that were written. And yeah, she’s all the time. Just like dad, come on. Like, look, it’s real. Like dad. It’s just the two of them bickering back and forth all the time and the movie is supposed to be about them Learning about each other and building a relationship, but it doesn’t

Todd: work.

No, there’s no moments. There’s no build It’s just you know They have these action scenes and dad’s got to do something and then she has to convince him and then he Kind of starts to understand, I mean, at some point I was like, come on, what you, you really think there’s a scientific explanation for this?

Like all these spiders just came to life.

Craig: The zombies come to life. He did. Oh, those are great animatronics.

Todd: No,

Craig: come on. Come on. Yeah, it’s ridiculous. Yeah, that happens. And then you’re right. Then I don’t remember. They go to the school at some point. I was saying another thing that dates it. The kids. The, the, the nerdy paranormal kids.

Mario is dressed like Hamilton, right?

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And Ramona is dressed as Cruella. That’s pretty timeless. That’s fine. I couldn’t figure out who the third one was supposed to, was she supposed to be Tanya Harding?

Todd: I have no idea. Even Tanya Harding is a dated reference. Come on.

Craig: I couldn’t figure it out. Somebody, somebody tell us in the comments who she was supposed to be, because she was clearly supposed to be somebody specific.

I couldn’t figure it out. Very eighties and they look great and it’s fun. I don’t remember if it’s before or after that, because again, at this point it just seems like vignettes. They’re just going from location to location for new things. All of this is because of Jack, whatever, Stingy Jack.

Todd: At some point we get a backstory.

Yeah, cause they go to, cause Sully, after, you know, fighting off the, the Zombies. I don’t remember why, he overhears them say something about Hawthorne or whatever, and he says, Oh, her, and she’s like, And the girl’s like, no, she can’t still be alive. He’s like, oh, I thought you were talking about her granddaughter.

Her granddaughter’s still alive, she’s at the nursing home. So they decide to go to the nursing home to talk to the granddaughter, who is a freaky looking herself. Yeah. She’s an old lady with white, I guess Cataracts. Cataracts. Eyes, or whatever, yeah, but she tells the story of when she was a little girl, her mother and her witch friends held a seance at their house in order to contain the spirit of Jack, and he didn’t go well, and eventually they were able to contain him, Jack wanted to come back more they had made an agreement that he could come back every Halloween for a day?

I didn’t

Craig: really get that. It didn’t make sense. Somehow, like, he made a deal with the devil that if he could Find a different soul to give back to the devil then he could Stay and then it would be Halloween all the time. You

Todd: had to like possess somebody basically or something

Craig: No, I think he has to take like there’s like there’s this big vortex to hell I guess that opens up at midnight on Halloween.

He’s got to toss someone down there. He’s got to toss somebody in there Oh, okay, like I didn’t quite catch that bit And then he can stay and it’ll be Halloween all the time. All right, whatever. I don’t know so they talked to that Creepy old lady like she was funny. I think that she’s an old Hollywood actress.

I don’t know I looked at her imdb page and it was a black and white picture of her when she was younger So she’s obviously been around a long time But the whole nursing home is decorated in spider webs and spiders and a giant spider

Todd: more effort I’m sad. I’m, sorry to say than any nursing home usually puts Forward for decorations.

Craig: Yeah, I haven’t done it in a long time, but the nursing homes around here are great I’ve taken little kids around to trick or treat cause those, the old folks love seeing the kids in their Halloween costumes. But anyway, all the spiders come alive and they have to have a big spider battle. And then, and Oh God, the dad like sciences out and mixes chemicals to make some acidic like supernatural bug spray.

Todd: It’s one thing that

Craig: he

Todd: gets MacGyver about it, but on the other hand, he’s always like, Pop quiz! What happens when you mix X with X and blah blah blah? He’s trying to make some science lesson, like he’s continually trying to prove a point, or continually trying to teach his daughter, you know, lessons in chemistry.

Well,

Craig: and in do I don’t even know if they talked about this in the movie, but in doing that, like, he’s always talking to her like she’s so And she’s not, like, she’s super smart. Like, she, she knows all this stuff. So, then, I feel like that’s when they go to the school, and there’s, like, a haunted maze in the school.

There’s,

Todd: like, two of them, yeah. Well, there’s a haunted carnival, creepy carnival, and that was awesome.

Craig: Yes, yeah, this whole thing is great. Like, they had mentioned it earlier because her new friends were going to be working at, I don’t remember what it was called, something about a, some kind of haunted maze.

And they were going to be working at it, and so I was excited.

Todd: And real quick, the reason why they go to the school is because, The woman, I think, tells them that there’s a grimoire, like the, the spells that her grandmother had were in a book, that the kid looks up online to find where the book is, and, oh, it was sold off on auction to this guy who happens to be at the school now, so that’s why they go there.

Craig: Right. I mean, there is connective tissue, like Oh, it’s

Todd: so thin and so dumb. I know, it

Craig: just does I, I feel like it doesn’t matter.

Todd: No.

Craig: You know, they, they, they get to the school, and then they get chased around by really scary clowns. Like, they’re really scary. Yeah. I loved the shots from above of them in the maze.

Like they’re running around in the maze and the clowns are chasing them. And it, it was scary to see, you know, there’s just one very small partition between them and these killer clowns. And then they’re just turning a corner just in time to get away. Like I really liked it. Yeah, it was good. Like it was a really fun.

Fun viewing experience. And then at the end, the dad and the kids meet up, they, they get out of the maze and they meet up and they have to fight one of the clowns who has an axe. And yes, the, the dad fights him for a minute. And then the girl comes in and like, she’s like the karate kid. And she like, like swing kicks Emily.

Todd: How about when Marlon Wayans squares up with that one clown and goes, homie, don’t play that. Before

Craig: he kicks him. That was. I did laugh out loud at that. I did too. I had almost forgot about Homey the Clown. Oh boy. Homey

Todd: the Clown, don’t mess around. Oh gosh. Even when he’s up, the man’ll bring him down. You know, I loved this bit.

I mean, obviously, it’s a little suspect that these decorative clowns and things that they’re gonna have in this have actual axes and machetes. I know, right?

Craig: Yeah, I mean, it’s a little bit difficult to understand the rules of it because when those clowns come alive, they are clearly men in clown suits.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But like you said, any time they are dispatched or dismembered, There’s no blood or gore, it’s just, like, props. And you know they die because their red lights go out.

Todd: Yeah, so how are they actually getting dispe yeah, what does it take to, like, dismember it to the point where no bit of it moves anymore?

Yeah, it’s kind of hard to say.

Craig: Well, and it’s one thing when a cardboard Halloween cat is chasing you around. It’s it’s just from a viewing perspective, the zombies are the same way. Like, they’re clearly Real.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Whereas some of the things maintain their look like, I don’t know. Again, there’s this whole chase for, they’re looking for this book and the guy who was supposed to have it sold it on eBay and he doesn’t know who bought it, but he knows the address ’cause it was 6, 6, 6.

So they

Todd: walk to 666 Elm Street, which it’s like, really? If you sold it to a guy, you didn’t need to mail it. It seems like you could have just walked this

Craig: to his son. You sold it to a guy on the internet who lives down the street

Todd: in town. And

Craig: it’s the principal, who is low key a devil worshiper, right? Well, he claims to not

Clip: be.

Floyd. Uh huh. What are you, some type of Satanist or something? Oh jeepers no, Howard. Howard! I’m a principal in a very small town with a very big Christian population. No, no, no, I just Collect things, you know, some people collect stamps some people collect butterflies I collect objects related to the eternal damnation of the human soul

Craig: I think he’s a low key Satanist because then at the end, when they win, he’s like, I’ve switched teams.

I don’t know. But his yard is decorated. It’s great. It’s fantastic. It’s so good. I wish that I had the money and the time and the storage space to set up a whole like football team of skeletons. It’s just skeletons and football jerseys and helmets. And it’s great. He’s a

Todd: principal with school spirit. I like this guy.

Craig: Right. They find the spell, they find the spell book, but then the skeletons come alive, and there’s a whole And remember, the dad is scared of skeletons. And they fight them, and then I think they all end up down in the basement, and then the dad and this daughter have, or somebody, I don’t know, they have a talk about

Todd: She gives him a lame pep talk.

Quick, this little pep talk that changes his whole worldview in, uh, in 30 seconds. Dad!

Clip: What is wrong with you? The skeletons. Ah, they’re coming through! What do we do? So it’s unexplainable. So what? They’re real. And you know what you can do to something that’s real? You can kick its ass!

Craig: And he’s like, okay, so he grabs the chainsaw

and he goes upstairs and there is a whole big scene of him taking out these skeletons with the chainsaw and it’s fun.

Todd: I loved it. It’s super fun. It’s another reason why I wouldn’t show this to my seven year old though. Even though they were clearly props and they’re skeletons or whatever, he lops limbs off, he cuts them.

It’s almost like what Art the Clown would do, you know, except This is just dust and, and bones and whatnot. Still not ready for my son to see. A chainsaw being wielded in that manner on humanoid like creatures.

Craig: Let’s just put it that way. I get it. And I don’t disagree with you,

Todd: but it’s awesome.

Craig: It’s so much fun.

Todd: Yeah, it’s a lot of fun.

Craig: In all of the ruckus, the spell book gets, all the pages come out and flutter all around, and the page with the spell gets burned. They hear a weird rumbling, and then when they go outside, all of the decorations from all of the yards are gone, and they’re like, Oh no, what’s happening?

And they’re like, oh, they must be gathering. And they’re gonna gather in the town square where the festival is, because at the festival they have a giant stingy jack. And whoever wins the pumpkin carving ceremony, that pumpkin gets to be Stingy Jack’s head. So, the kids and the Wayans brother, uh, head towards town, but on the way, they stop by the ceremony cemetery to go to the Hawthorne Crypt to do a seance.

Yes, because they have to get they have to get the spell because the spell got burned up the old lady Hawthorne in the flashback is played by Nia Vardalos of my big fat Greek wedding and then she possesses Marlon Wayans and talks through him and one of the girls records it for Tik Tok and then they leave.

Right, and all of the Halloween decorations have gathered in the town square and the the townspeople have put the giant pumpkin on Stingy Jack’s head and The mayor is leading the ceremony and when all of the Halloween decorations show up she thinks it’s like their rival town Coming to mess up their festival and so she kind of like leads a charge with her town To like face off with them.

Todd: It’s so dumb I guess it’s supposed to be funny because this sweet like very peppy and very Gung Ho Mayor, who just seems so nice, has got it in for, like, Shelbyville, basically, you know.

Craig: I know, her character is so funny. I really like that actress, Lauren Lapkus. I think she’s really, really funny. She does a really odd accent.

Like, she’s got, like, uh, Bronx, like, I

Clip: Yeah.

Craig: It’s weird, like, what are you doing? Nobody else in that town has that accent. It

Todd: doesn’t even fit. I was waiting at some point for her to like, say something like, Oh yeah, I moved here from New York too, or something like that. But, I don’t know, it’s

Craig: really weird.

But anyway, so it all culminates. The dad and, and the kids all get to the square. And then Jack comes alive. And, and like flames like burst out of his mouth and eyes and I loved, God, I loved this.

Todd: This was good.

Craig: The Stingy Jack character at the end when he comes alive and oh man, it was great. It’s got an 80s vibe to me for some reason.

I’m not sure why. I know why. The real

Todd: Ghostbusters or. Also hints and shades of Return to Oz are in there. You know, with the Jack character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then also, you know, we did the Disney Legend of Sleepy Hollow for our patrons. And that cartoon, you know, has that flaming pumpkin in it. And the flames, like, shoot out of the pumpkin.

Out of its eyes and its nose. It all kind of came together for me. And kind of that feeling. It was cool. A little bit of Nightmare Before Christmas, too. I think there’s a pumpkin character. That looks a lot like that. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah, I loved it. It’s great. He’s big, you know, like he’s really big. I would say he’s probably like 10 feet tall.

He’s huge. The dad and the daughter look for the mom because she was at her bake sale, but she’s gone and they know that Jack needs both. His lantern and a soul to trade at midnight. And they’re like, Oh no, because mom is at home listening to R& B, drinking wine.

Todd: Not as devastated as she should be that slowly everybody spit her food back into their face.

You know,

Craig: then she’s even like trying her own food and she’s like, Ooh, it is gross. And she’s like knocking her scone on a plate. And it like makes a clanking sound. Yeah. Scones are hard. Like scones are hard. It’s fine.

Todd: That’s the worst thing. It’s a dumb joke. You should have made it like, I don’t know, like an angel thing.

Food cake that was that hard or something right so stupid.

Craig: But anyway, he’s there. He skulks around He doesn’t actually get her before they show up the dad and the daughter show up they show up But then he does get her and then the bat is also back and causing problems and the dad and the daughter like there It’s like a moment like he he has to go rescue his wife.

He doesn’t want the daughter to kill Come because he doesn’t want her to be in danger or something, but like he has to trust her to take care of herself I don’t know like again, like I said, there’s some that’s what the the character growth is supposed to be He’s supposed to be learning that she’s growing up and he’s got to let go a little bit and like they they play act it Like it’s in the script, but it just doesn’t read.

No

Todd: Because they’ve been fighting these monsters the whole time. I mean, like, there’s no real change. Like, Oh, I don’t know. It just, it’s silly. It’s silly.

Craig: And so he goes in and he has to read the spell and he does, but it’s not working. And the daughter’s like, you have to really believe in it. So he reads it in English.

So

Todd: he, apparently to

Craig: believe it, he has to say it in English and he does. And Skinny Jack gets sucked into the hell vortex. And then they’re fine. And then it’s the next morning and everything’s fine and everybody’s happy and all the kids are there and everything’s great. And then he and the daughter go up to the attic and they’re gonna seal up the jack o lantern.

They can’t just destroy it because that might let him out again. I don’t remember ever hearing that. Right. I guess they’re just being cautious. I don’t know. Whatever. So they put it back in the trunk and they cover it in chemical flame retardant. Right. And they lock it back up and they have a little heart to heart about how, you know, he realizes she’s getting older and she can do things on her own and he trusts her and blah, blah, blah.

Please. And then I don’t know, somebody knocks something over and the Rube Goldberg thing happens again, breaks through another part of the wall and they look in there. And it’s full of locked trunks. And I think the last line of the movie is, Oh, hell no.

Todd: Oh my god. That about summed it up, really. I’m surprised that Marlon Wayans even uttered that line.

Oh

Craig: my god, I thought it was really funny.

Todd: How dumb. Again, so dumb as to almost be offensive.

Craig: Uh, no, I thought it was hilarious. Also, when they were having their heart to heart, Or no, no, no, gosh, no. It was when they were still down at the, uh, uh, standing around the, the kitchen island having cinnamon rolls.

They were saying something about how wild last night was. And I think it was Ramona said, Huh? You think that was wild? You should see what this town does for Christmas. And I was like, Oh my God, that is hilarious. Like just totally setting it up for a sequel. And then of course they, you know, they could do, A sequel with all of those other trunks too and I don’t think they will cause I haven’t heard anything.

I haven’t heard anything about it. I don’t think this movie did well enough necessarily to warrant a sequel, but for all of the crap that we’ve given it and I think that we’ve been really fair in that regard. It was a fun watch. I had fun watching it and and so I would 100 percent recommend it again.

The writing isn’t great. I don’t care. I don’t care because the, the stuff that I’m seeing and the stuff that is happening is, is so fun and it’s so Halloween y. I’m glad we saved it for the last one because of all the ones that we’ve seen, this one is just, it feels like such just a celebration of Halloween.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And for that, for that, I, I really like it.

Todd: Yeah, I, I agree with you on all that. I’ll admit, I got a little bored about halfway through because it was just so predictable, and Yeah. You know, you could see where it’s going, there was nothing innovate nothing real edgy, like I said, even not even really attempting to be edgy in any way, shape, or form.

And so, I did get a little bored about halfway through it, but this is like a, that’s because I’m a 40 something year old guy watching it alone, you know, this is a family movie, you know, this is something you would sit down with your family and have a ball with, so, uh, it’s, it was made for that, it delivered, I think, on what it was made for, it’s a shame it couldn’t be a little more creative and clever and original but It fits the bill and the special effects really made up for it If the special effects had not been as good it would have been pretty a pretty lame movie Yeah, that redeems it to some degree It’s just the production value is high and the star power of it is is high You know Netflix has big pockets and yeah They do and they can put things like this together and then they do and I mean the fact that there isn’t a sequel to It should kind of show you because you know, sometimes it doesn’t matter what the critics think If audiences eat it up, it could be critically panned, but if it got a lot of views on Netflix, they’re gonna make a sequel, or they’re gonna do something with it.

Oh god,

Craig: yeah, Netflix is totally driven by numbers, that’s all they care about.

Todd: Yeah, and it doesn’t seem like, just by evidence of the fact that we’ve seen nothing moving on that front, it’s probably also didn’t get the viewership that they were hoping, so. But you know. A perfect Halloween movie. I’m so glad we saved this for the last week, because it’s Halloween through and through.

It’s a good Halloween movie to watch with your family. Don’t expect too much from it. Just sit back and enjoy the spirit of the season.

Craig: Yeah, it’s fun. I mean, it’s like going to a haunted house or a haunted attraction. Like, there’s just so many fun things to look at. Like, that’s what, honestly, that’s what the movie feels like.

It feels like you’re moving from room to room in

Todd: a

Craig: haunted attraction.

Todd: For sure.

Craig: And it’s fun. I love that stuff.

Todd: We did it because you recommended it. You, you saw it last year and you thought it would be good for us to do. We did it this year, and I’m glad we did. So thank you, Craig. Happy Halloween to all of you.

We hope that you, uh, have enjoyed this month and that you’ve still got a couple more days to go for the big day, so get your preparations in order. We would love to see what you’re doing. If you’re decorating your lawn or putting together a pretty awesome costume, post some pictures for us on our patrons page as well, if you’re a patron.

Otherwise, you know, you can search Two Guys and a Chainsaw podcast. And you can find our Facebook page, our website, all of those places, uh, you know, you’re able to, uh, interact with us and comment back. We’d love to hear what you are doing for Halloween and, uh, see some cool pictures from around the world until next time I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          Sleepy Hollow remains a solid Tim Burton film – and his first foray into real horror. While it boasts a star-studded cast (Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, Christopher Lee, Jeffrey Jones, and practically the entire cast of the Harry Potter series), we note that the passage of time has not remained kind to this one. What is wrong with it? Nothing, actually. It’s just … well, not what we expected, and not as fond as we remembered it.

Nevertheless, the classic tale of Ichabod Crane and The Headless Horseman is utterly PERFECT for conjuring up those Halloween vibes. Let’s take a deep dive into this as we get into the spirit of the season.

And if you’re a Patron of the show, you’ll also get access to our companion minisode, where we discuss the Disney animated version of the original Washington Irving tale upon which this movie is (loosely) based. Wander on over to our Patreon page and consider joining the crew for a discussion of both the cartoon AND the short story, as well as nearly 50 minisodes and other goodies exclusively for our Patrons!

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptSleepy Hollow (1999)Episode 412, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: We are knee, knee deep in the holiday season. Knee deep in the graveyard, as you might say. Knee. Where do I come up with this shit? I mean, I probably wouldn’t. Some people might say it. I don’t know. Maybe I said it for the first time and it’ll become a thing.

It’s cute. I like it. I once came up with a saying that I was spreading around and hoping that would spread so that by the time I saw it in a movie, I could tell everybody it actually came from me. I don’t think you should say it. Are you saying that because I’m scared. Oh yeah, it’s a fantastic one. I thought, like, what is something that people always say, like, Oh, that really ticks me off.

That really ticks me off or I’m really pissed or something like that. I thought, That really yanks my loins. Damn it, that yanks my loins. Pretty good, huh? I mean, that’s pretty good. It’s unique enough that if I heard it in a movie, I would know it only came from me. But I thought it was catchy. Thank you.

Okay. If any I’ll I’ll keep

Craig: my

Todd: ears out. My cousins in Illinois, when I was in high school, I think when they were in high school, so that was, this was many years ago, claimed that they, once I told them this, they started using it at school and they said everyone at school saying it, was saying it at some point.

So I had high hopes. But I have yet to see it in a movie, so, uh, that remains. Don’t give up. I won’t. Maybe, you know, once this spreads to both of our listeners, they can also go off and do the thing. I’ve still got lots of life to live. I think it’s got legs, man. Yanks my loins. That really yanks my loins.

Hello, welcome to Two Guys in a Chainsaw. Hope we don’t yank your loins today.

Craig: You know what really yanks my loins? Yeah!

It works, doesn’t it? Get

Todd: on

Craig: with it. It works, okay. It’s, it’s, it’s something.

Todd: We were looking for a wide variety of Halloween stuff to do, and it seemed like the list that I came up with was getting a little skewed towards, like, children, kind of kidsy movies, and I thought, you know what, that’s kind of fine.

So why don’t we go ahead and throw this mainstream movie in that I remember from 1999 called Sleepy Hollow. Starred Johnny Depp, Christina Ricci, was directed by Tim Burton. I remembered it as being fun and fairly light. You know, as far as horror movies go, that it wasn’t really so scary. It was just full of atmosphere and pretty much suitable for your older, younger set.

So when we went back to watch it this time around, which I hadn’t seen since it came out, I was pretty shocked at how gory it was. I was really surprised, and so I’m kind of happy that we sat down to do this one this season because I was really happy to revisit it, there was a lot I’d forgotten about it, and it is maybe the most horror of a Tim Burton movie that Tim Burton’s ever done.

Oh yeah. And, and that’s odd because you think of Tim Burton as being the spooky guy, but in actuality, he really hasn’t done much of what you would consider horror, and I think this might be horror. At the top of the list. He certainly took the project because he, he hadn’t done a horror movie yet, which is odd because horror movies were his favorite movies growing up.

He was a hammer horror fan. He was a Vincent Price nut, you know, and, and, and all that. And it really kind of inspired. the direction you decide to take things, so. It was fun revisiting it, but uh, this is the first time I’d seen it since it came out. I’m not sure if I’d seen it in the theater or rented it, probably 50 50 one or the other, but yeah, I had a good time.

How about you? What was your history with this movie?

Craig: I, I, I don’t know. I’ve been trying to think. My memory is so bad, so I’ll tell you what I think I remember, but I may be just totally making it up. I think that I remember being really excited about this. Like when the trailers came out, because I really liked Tim Burton, you know, especially up to this point, I’d really liked the stuff that he had done.

And up to this point, I liked Johnny Depp. And I really like this story. Like, this is one of my favorite Halloween stories. When we were growing up, the Disney version? Yes. The animated one would play annually on television? Young people today just don’t know. You just don’t know. You know? Young

Todd: people today, they just don’t get it.

Craig: There were these great things, like these holiday specials, or just movies that they would play yearly, usually around some holiday. Like, The Sound of Music, or Wizard of Oz, or something like that. And that would be for many of us, the only access you had to that. So when it came up. Every year. It was so exciting every year at Halloween.

I was so excited to get to watch the sleepy hollow cartoon. It was so cute. So I was super excited about this movie. And I think that I remember being disappointed. I’m not sure why. Well, I think I know. Watching this again, I still wasn’t super into it and I was telling Alan like, I don’t know what I’m gonna say because there’s nothing wrong with this movie.

Like, it should hit on every level and just for some reason it just doesn’t for me and I can’t figure it out. Maybe we can suss it out as, as we talk. I don’t know.

Todd: We might be able to. I, I don’t know. I, I, like you, uh, loved that Disney, what, it was my first introduction to the story and it’s a very compelling story.

Craig: It’s super, super faithful to the, to the text. Oh, it is. To the Washington, yeah, the Washington Irving text. Now the Washington Irving text, I’ve tried to teach that several times and kids are just not into it. And I get it. Yeah. Because it’s long and it’s kind of boring. Well,

Todd: it’s, it’s all narration.

There’s no, you know, it’s like a story told by a, you Heard from a guy, heard from a guy, you know, and it’s kind of done in that vein. Didn’t Washington Irving have a book that was ostensibly essays and letters from somebody else? You know, like, He just, Oh, I don’t know. It’s a good story. It is. But it’s, it’s like the tale you’d hear from some old man sitting around talking, telling you, you

Craig: know, I mean, it, it, it, it, me, it meanders.

Like it’s a lot of like local color.

Todd: It’s heavy on description. That doesn’t matter world.

Craig: Yeah. Like world building of the area and like all these like old legends. And it really is a good story. It really is. But you need, you have to be in the mood for it. It’s, it’s not like a page turner.

Todd: Yeah, it’s less like reading a novel or a short story as it is like having somebody tell you something that they heard happen once.

Yeah. While you’re sitting in a bar and the music is loud or whatever. It’s just, it’s not gonna hit the same. But I actually really like that story because I find it cozy.

Craig: Yeah, oh, it’s very cozy, sure.

Todd: You just kind of disappear into a little world for a while and I, and the language of that time, you know, the writing, Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s just so, sometimes I’m really in the mood for that. Let me just put it that way. It’s almost Me too. Yeah. I get it. It transports you back to a time you never lived in but wish you had sometimes. Anyway, yeah, we’re gonna actually do the Disney story of, uh, Ichabod Crane, the cartoon, as a minisode for our patrons.

So if you’re actually interested in hearing us talk a little bit more about the Disney movie and about the short story that inspired it, go to Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast and think about signing up. It’s just five bucks a month and you get access to a whole bunch of minisodes. And the ones that we’ve already done and the ones we do in the future, lots of other goodies and things like that.

So I think I kind of know why, because I liken this a little bit to the movie Van Helsing.

Craig: Yes. Oh my God. I put that in my notes and I was super excited about that movie too. And then it was just okay. Like, and again, it should have, it’s exactly What I think I want it to be, but for some reason it’s just not.

I was curious as to whether you would be a bigger fan of this. Because I should have figured it out on my own, but I really didn’t figure it out until I started reading about it. That he did this very much in the style of Of the Hammer horror films and Mario Bava films. Now, Mario Bava films I’m not nearly as familiar with.

I know we’ve done a couple. Tell me, what are some of the ones that we’ve

Todd: done? Honestly, we have not done a Mario Bava film yet, which is Are you serious? Yeah, I’m sorry. We did one by his son. His son did Demons, and so we did that one. So we probably talked a little bit about him, and we said Bava, but it was not Mario.

Black Sunday is one of my favorite old movies, and it’s cited constantly as a inspiration for so many people who grew up watching those 60s horror movies and hammer horror movies that and finally went on to direct in themselves, and little pieces and bits of it end up in movies. We’ve seen the actress from that became very, very popular and has shown up in movies that we’ve done, including Piranha.

She was one of the mean scientists who was part of the conspiracy. So, yeah, we, we’ve talked about Black Sunday and Mario Bava a little bit, but we’ve never done it. And now I’m thinking we need to rectify that. We need to at least do Black Sunday, if nothing else, that Mario Bava has done. He is a big blind spot right now in our,

Craig: You are more familiar with all of those films than I am, but I think I may have just figured it out.

I think it’s when a brilliant filmmaker looks back at the films that they were inspired by and want to emulate it. Like, here’s my tribute to it, or I like it so much. I want to do something like it and they try to recreate it and you just can’t like it

Todd: maybe yeah

Craig: with the modern effects And it’s just different so much of what those movies are to me is style And I understand that you you can imitate style But just the visual me as the viewer looking at it the visual style.

I understand. Yes Okay, so Burton filmed most of this movie on set But it doesn’t look like it.

Todd: Not at all.

Craig: The old Hammer movies, they look like sets. I almost feel like I’m watching a play. So it’s totally different. And, and so I think it just doesn’t work. Like trying to think of other things like that.

Tim Burton’s Dark Shadows. Nobody was into

Todd: yeah,

Craig: I feel like when you try too hard to recapture something in this case I just don’t I don’t know and it’s not a bad movie. It’s not no, it’s a good

Todd: movie It just doesn’t work for me So I’m gonna be a little kinder than you on this because I do feel like he did a pretty good job of Recreating the look and the and the style of hammer films visually Again, like what you said is very true, like, updating it a little bit, because it’s just much more, it’s got a bigger budget and better teams behind it, you know, it’s more competent and stuff, so like, the sets don’t really look like sets, even though they’re still just as covered in fog and obscured and kind of small as they were, you know, when you’re doing, say, like, in, in, in one of the old Hammer Dracula movies, where you’re out in the woods and it’s just a bunch of branches and things and a lot of fog to kind of disguise the fact that you’re actually in a small confined space.

It’s hard to make a set look big, you know, when it’s, uh, inside of a, even when it’s inside, like, an airplane hangar.

Craig: And they do it brilliantly here. Like, it’s so, the whole thing is so well done. Tim Burton is a genius. Like, I just think he’s an absolute genius. I said earlier, like, Up until this point, I was a big fan of him and Johnny Depp.

I’m, I’m still a big Tim Burton fan. I feel like the stuff that he’s put out more recently doesn’t really live up to some of his earlier stuff. And Johnny Depp, I’m just over, like, I was never all that into him. And at this point I’m just over him. I don’t get it. Let’s, let’s let him go. Let’s let him go

Todd: away.

It sounds like you’re putting him to sleep.

Craig: No, he can just go and be rich quietly somewhere else. I don’t need to see him anymore.

Todd: I’m picturing you as, as an assassin coming up from behind Johnny Depp, real quick around the neck and he’s like struggling and you’re going and slowly lowering him to the ground.

That’s, that’s, uh, that’s a

Craig: very vivid imagination, but, but, but Tim Burton is Brilliant. Edward Scissorhands is one of my favorite movies of all time. And Johnny Depp is brilliant in that too. I will give him credit where it is due. So I’m not like everything is beyond adept. The cinematography is gorgeous.

Right. The directing is good. I found the pacing weird, but I was also trying to put myself in a head space where he’s going for a certain type of movie and probably these hammer films and these, these Bava films were probably paced this way. It’s just not what you’re used to. It weirded me out that the movie felt like two different movies.

It felt like there was the first movie where they’re trying to figure out who the killer is. And of course everybody knows it’s the horseman, but. Ichabod Crane Johnny Depp is a man of reason so he can’t accept that and then about halfway through the movie He sees the horseman and so then that mystery is over.

Yeah, so then they introduced a new one

Todd: So it’s like Sherlock Holmes kind of who did it sort of thing?

Craig: Yeah, which is fine. It was just ah, I don’t know Yeah. The movie’s an hour and 45 minutes long. It felt long to me.

Todd: I thought it was two and a half by the time I finished watching it. It would

Craig: never

Todd: end.

Ironically enough, I was just gonna say before you mentioned pacing, that I think that that is one thing that separates this, that makes us feel different from a Hammer Horror movie, and that is the pacing. Even though it’s a bit slow, there’s a lot. There is, it is plot heavy. Oh my god. There are so many characters, and there is so many plots, and so many twists, and so many turns, and so many details, that in that way, It feels kind of fast.

I mean, it’s not like a simple story told over a slow period of time, which is sort of how I feel like the pacing of the old Hammer Horror movies are.

Craig: Yes. Yes.

Todd: And so when you get in that, when you slip into that zone, that mental space, you know, that atmosphere Kind of all that’s left, right? So you’re just wallowing in that atmosphere and that atmosphere, I could say, kind of overtakes you and becomes overworldly and their dream sequences that fill the time and you know, there’s all this stuff.

Clip: Yeah.

Todd: It’s very different from what this is, which like you said, is a plot heavy. First it’s one movie, then it’s another movie. It’s a detective story, it’s a whodunit, there’s got a million names to try to remember and figure out. I got lost halfway through and I stopped even paying attention. I did too.

Yeah, so in that way it’s got this sort of, they’re trying to shoehorn this very simple old story into a more of a, what they feel a modern audience can handle, you know, a more modern sensibility, an updating of it if you will. So instead of Ichabod Crane being this like, school teacher. Who is quite a simple man, but is trying to kind of woo this girl and thinks he’s got a shot at it.

Ichabod Crane’s character in the short story is freaked out by ghost stories. He believes, he’s not a skeptic, he’s the opposite. Oh yeah. He believes all these ghost stories and he’s terrified of everything. To the point where even, maybe even more so than the townspeople, of this already very superstitious town.

And this guy is not that at all. No, it’s very different.

Clip: I am Constable Ichabod Crane. Sent to you from New York to investigate murder in Sleepy Hollow. Then Sleepy Hollow is grateful to you, Constable Crane. And we hope you will honor us by remaining in this house. Well spoke, dear. Well, come, sir. We’ll get you settled.

Clayon!

Todd: And the efforts to make it seem like he’s scared of things and very skittish are really inconsistent. Because on the one hand, he’s a little ill at the sight of blood and jumping up at spiders that are scurrying across the floor. And on the other hand, he’s getting blood squirted in his face by voluntarily, you know, axing at a tree that’s bleeding.

Craig: There’s so much face squirting on Donny Jepp. Like, um, Tim Burton, um, like, There’s a lot of squirting on Johnny Depp’s face. I’m just saying, you might want to tone it down.

Todd: He’s making his love for Donny Jepp a little too obvious in this one, isn’t he? And also, there’s this moment where he’s like, I’m gonna round up a posse of the most able bodied men to go in and after the Headless Horsemen.

At that point, I was just like, okay, it’s not the same story. It’s not at all. That is how I felt about Van Helsing. It was going for this old classic Universal’s monster feel. Of course, they had to update it by making a lot of computer generated effects. I can give that a pass or whatever. But Van Helsing becomes this, like, action superstar.

And the whole movie is just nothing but One action sequence to another which is completely betrays the feeling of those old films So it doesn’t feel at all like those old films and honestly when I was coming to see a movie about Van Helsing and was excited I wasn’t wanting to see Van Helsing as Indiana Jones, so it was, uh, disappointing.

And I kind of felt that way about this, too. I wasn’t coming to see Ichabod Crane as sort of like a Sherlock Holmesian man of reason who slowly becomes to believe in the supernatural, but is able to summon up the courage to have these long, drawn out action sequences where he’s leaping from a horse to a horse to a wagon train and summoning up a posse to single handedly go after, uh, This horseman deep in the dark woods.

That was disappointing.

Craig: Yeah. I, even though some guy on the internet says that I’m too negative, I’m going to, I’m going to go ahead and say it anyway, and I feel, I feel, I feel okay about saying it because Johnny Depp himself. Says he’s not watched this movie because he hates the way he acted in it. I don’t like it either.

Yeah, it’s it’s it’s not like he does anything wrong. He’s fine. I just I was trying to figure this out because I don’t care for him anymore. It’s not just about stuff that’s been about his personal life. That’s been very public. That’s not charming, but Just as an actor, people kind of swoon over him and I just feel like he’s just kind of always the same to me and I feel like whatever he’s in, when everybody else is giving 10, he’s always giving 11.

So like he’s always just a little bit over the top and compared to everybody else and it just

Todd: It throws off the balance. Scene stealing.

Craig: People are gonna disagree with me and that’s totally fine. I understand that I am in the minority here. I, he’s a huge star, he has been for years. I, I respect that. He, just not my cup of tea, that’s all.

I understand if, if you like him, I get it, it’s fine, but I don’t. Dude,

Todd: I’m with you on that, honestly. I love him in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. I really do. That is one of these situations where doing the wacky character that nobody kind of like was expecting but then it turned out like it was really, it worked.

But then, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, like, it’s the same deal, he’s like, I’m gonna go because I feel like Willy Wonka would be a childlike man so I’m gonna literally try to be as childlike as possible and then over the top and it,

Craig: it sucks. Listen, I hate, I hate it. But I will at least give him credit for making a bold choice.

Todd: Well, that’s my point. He makes bold choices, and I think that is what people like about him, and that is what

Craig: And that’s fair.

Todd: And they’ll say, Oh, well, that means that he’s a great actor. I don’t know. I mean, don’t get me wrong. He’s a great actor. It’s just like, that’s kind of become his shtick.

Craig: Yeah, that’s what I feel like.

It’s It seems a little lazy at this point. I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. He’s And like, I, I appreciate the fact that like, you know, in the story, Ichabod Crane is supposed to be like, unattractive, and he offered to wear like prosthetics and stuff to make himself more physically unappealing. And Tim Burton didn’t want to do that.

He wanted to just focus on the unappealing. Aspects of his character, which is fine because he was super annoying and a, a big baby sometimes, like you said, but then at other times, I’m going to lead the charge. Yeah. Yeah. And like you said, there’s, there’s so much, God, we, we couldn’t possibly, if we wanted to, it would take us all day to go through the whole plot, but there are so many notable things like this cast.

Yes. Is. Insane! I know,

Todd: right? I had forgotten. It’s crazy! And, especially in retros actually, not really even in retrospect, because everybody in this was, uh, famous. Famous British actors, surprisingly. At one point, Johnny does Ichabod Crane, when he comes to Sleepy Hollow, he’s Ha ha! He’s a New York detective!

He’s in a room with every famous old man you’ve ever seen. Yeah! He’s in a room I was watching this with Liz, and she said, It’s like a reunion of the cast from Harry Potter. It is. It practically is. But it’s also, to be fair, kind of a reunion of everybody Tim Burton likes to put in his movies ever. So you’ve got, uh, Jeffrey Jones from a bunch of his movies, but you know, Beetlejuice.

Father and Beetlejuice. He plays the local, um, priest guy. Then you’ve got Michael Gambon. Who is the town mayor? What do they call it? Like, the constable? No, he’s just a rich guy. Who has a lot of influence?

Craig: Yeah, he’s everybody’s friend, but also their banker. Yeah. I feel like he’s just the really rich guy who’s maybe a landlord.

Yeah, I think that’s what he is. He’s like a landlord. And

Todd: of course, he’s, Michael Gambon was famously Dumbledore after the first, uh, Dumbledore. Two? First two Harry Potter movies, or first one? I don’t remember. He’s been in a million things. He pulled, um, what’s his name out of retirement? Alfred from, uh, Batman.

Michael Goe? Yes, Michael Goe.

Craig: Ugh, I love him so much. He’s so sweet.

Todd: He’s so, they really do him up in this too, and I guess he wasn’t gonna act anymore after that, but But, uh, he pulled him out of retirement. Yeah, this was, yeah, it was his last,

Craig: and that was it. This was the last one.

Todd: Yeah. Last live action role.

I guess he must’ve done a voice or,

Craig: Oh, right.

Todd: Who else is in there?

Craig: Richard Griffiths, who is magistrate Phillips, who is uncle Vernon from Harry Potter,

Todd: as I watched him slovenly sitting down, slurping things up and eating tea, I’m like, what must it be like? To be the guy, who it’s like, Anytime I need a big disgusting fat man, this is the actor I call, you know?

Craig: And isn’t he the one, like, At some point, he dies, a bunch of people die in this movie, But he, his death scene, he’s like, Walking up a hill, and I was genuinely concerned for him. I, is he going to make it up that hill? Right. Because he’s a big guy and it didn’t look like he got around very well. For sure.

Miranda Richardson plays Mrs. Van Tassel. She has, I mean, all of these people have been in a million things, but the Harry Potter connection she was Rita Skeeter. Casper Van Dien, who I have always loved. I think Casper Van Dien deserves A list. He

Todd: does! Status. And I, I don’t understand why he doesn’t have it, because first of all, he’s just one of the most attractive looking guys in the world.

Yeah. And he’s real built, and he has been in like 150 things. I went to his IMDB page, because I was like, huh, I wonder if he’s like, still working pretty regularly? Oh yeah! For the past ten years, he’s been in like five movies or TV shows a year, at least. It’s kind of insane. But I first saw him in Starship Troopers, and I absolutely loved that movie, and I loved him in it.

Craig: Uh huh.

Todd: And so that would be a little closer to this one, right? I think 1997 was Starship Troopers. And that was, I think about his breakout role, right?

Craig: I guess that should have made him a huge star.

Todd: It did more for, uh, what’s her name? Denise Richards. Denise Richards than it did for him. And I was shocked.

Well, I mean, if you’ve got to choose between the two, I’m not terribly shocked.

Craig: I get it.

Todd: You know my, uh, my Denise Richards fascination, right?

Craig: I do. I get it. She’s a beautiful, beautiful woman. Christina Ricci plays Katrina Van Tussle. Casper Van Dien plays Brom Bones, by the way. Vom Van Brunt in this.

Todd: He’s like the Gaston of this.

Craig: He totally is! Oh, we’ll talk more about that later. But Christina Ricci plays Katrina Van Tussle, who’s the daughter of the rich guy or whatever.

And they, I just, there are things about it that I love. I love that they live in like a big Gothic mansion that just looks like a backdrop.

Clip: This land we’re looking at was Van Garret land given to my father when I was in Swadling Close. The Van Garrets were the richest family around these parts. When my father brought us to Sleepy Hollow, Van Garret set him up with an acre in a broken down cottage.

My father worked hard for his family, and prospered, and built this house. And I owe my happiness to him.

Craig: Okay, so Winona Ryder was at, was offered this role and she turned it down, I assume because her relationship with Johnny Depp had gone sour.

Todd: Oh really?

Craig: Well, I assume so, I don’t think they were still dating at this time, I can’t imagine why else she would have turned it down.

Maybe she just had something else going on, I don’t know, maybe they were still together. They were together for a long time, they were like a hot couple. And

Todd: weren’t their ages pretty close?

Craig: I think he was older than her. And I think that they got together when she was very young, so Yeah, yeah. But, but, they, you know, they were a serious couple.

I love the story that he tattooed Wynonna forever on himself. And then when they broke up, he had it changed to Wino forever. I love that. I love that story. But he was Johnny Depp was like thrown to, I mean, mentally, like he was thrown when he found out he was gonna be playing a romantic part opposite Christina Ricci because he was significantly older than her and knew her since she was a little girl because he was dating Winona Ryder at the time that they were filming Mermaids.

And Christina Ricci was a, Child in that movie. Yes. I get it.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: That’s funny. You want to hear a personal story? One time I was in a play.

Todd: With, with Christina Ricci? Go on. With

Craig: Christina Ricci. No, I, I got cast opposite one of my former students in a romantic role. Oh no. And we had to kiss a bunch. Oh my god.

Todd: That had to be strange.

Craig: It should have been, but It wasn’t like she was still a child like, you know, she was in her 20s at this point, right? and it should have been weird, but I Obviously platonically loved her so much and like we worked so well together that it wasn’t weird at all. That’s sweet. Um, for us, like her classmates from when she was in school, we’re like, Oh, God,

Todd: could

Craig: you imagine?

Right?

Todd: Mr. Higgins. Am I our English teacher?

Craig: But for us, it was fine. She was wonderful. She was one of the most amazing acting partners I’ve ever worked with. But yeah, I mean, it was a little weird. So I get it. I get where you’re Johnny Depp is coming from. Oh, we didn’t mention Christopher Lee is in it for about two minutes in the beginning

Todd: and apparently Christopher Lee in his memoirs Credited this film as being the one that were kind of reintroduced him to a new generation and he thinks it was directly responsible for him getting the roles in both Phantom Menace and Lord of the Rings?

Lord of the Rings, yeah. But Phantom Menace was filming around this time, so I don’t know if he just shot his scenes here early, or What the deal was? I’m not I’m not sure about all that, but

Craig: Well, he surely could have shot all of his scenes in a day or two. Oh yeah,

Todd: this was shot, yeah, in a In a hot minute, but this movie hadn’t even been out yet, and I think, well, Star Wars had wrapped, but I don’t think Star Yeah, Star Wars was coming out around the same year, 1999 2000.

But anyway, yeah, he thought that his role in this was significant. And I think Tim Burton just cast him because he was over the moon happy to cast one of his childhood heroes, you know, in Oh, absolutely. He threw him in there. I mean, if Vincent Price had been alive You know, he would have cast him in a movie too.

Well, he did. He cast him in, uh, Edward Scissorhands. But, uh

Clip: There is a town upstate, two days journey to the north in the Hudson Highlands. It is a place called Sleepy Hollow. Have you heard of it? I have not. An isolated farming community, mainly Dutch. Three persons have been murdered there all within a fortnight.

Each one found with the head lopped off. Lopped off? Clean as dandelion heads, apparently. You will take these experimentations of yours too, Sleepy Hollow. And there you will detect the murderer.

Craig: Well, and the casting of him and Michael Goh, like, really kind of adds to the authenticity and credibility of the movie and, and of what Tim Burton was trying to do.

Right. You know, like, it’s, it’s obvious that he’s a legitimate fan. Of these types of movies. He loves them. He’s doing this because he loves it. And he wants to, I think that shows in, in the care that was taken and the thought that was put in again, I can’t say enough. I don’t think it’s a bad movie. I think it’s really a very, very well made movie.

Just not, just didn’t work for me. Um, the only other one that we haven’t mentioned, I think is the very first person that we see on screen is uncredited Martin Landau.

Todd: He did it as a favor, I hear, to the cinematographer who directed those. I think it was the cinematographer of the movie who actually directed those initial scenes, um, not Tim Burton himself.

In fact, we might as well talk about this, too. Tim Burton wasn’t originally slated to direct this either. This movie came out in 99, but it started development in 93 with a script that had been written by Andrew Kevin Walker. Andrew Kevin Walker is the guy who wrote Seven, but even at this time, Seven hadn’t been picked up yet, but the script was floating around, and on the basis of reading that script and being impressed with it, some executives at Paramount got this screenplay, and because horror was getting kind of big right now.

I don’t know, like four years before here, this Bram Stoker’s Dracula came out. Scream had come out a few years before this as well. So horror was becoming a little more mainstream at this point. So I think they were looking for this kind of thing. And, uh, originally Kevin Yeager was going to direct it.

Kevin Yeager is an effects artist and he’s probably most famously known for doing, well, a number of things, but he, I love him because he did the Crypt Keeper. Puppet, and puppetry in the Tales from the Crypt series. But he’s done, you know, he did the effects for Starship Troopers, and lots of other things.

Loads of, uh, Freddy Krueger’s makeup, starting with the second one. So yeah, he was a veteran of the industry, but he never directed, and so he, this was gonna be his, uh, directorial, sort of, debut. But once things snowballed, I think the studio wanted to pull Tim Burton in it. Depending on what you read, either he got demoted, or he voluntarily said, step down because he was excited that Tim Burton was involved and just slipped back into the role of doing prosthetics and effects for the movie.

But it was originally just supposed to be like a low budget slasher movie and even the violence in the script had to eventually be toned down. They hired Tom Stoppard. And he’s not credited for it, but he did significant rewrites on the script to tone down the violence and ramp up the humor. And I’m surprised, like, I mean, it must have been pretty violent, because I, I, for a Tim Burton movie anyway, for a mainstream movie starring Johnny Depp and all these stars and directed by Tim Burton, I’m shocked at how much violence is in it.

Craig: It’s very violent, but they’re clever. So anytime the Headless Horseman. I guess we’re just kind of assuming that people know the general story. But anytime the Headless Horseman kills somebody, decapitates them, or whatever, stabs them through the gut to decapitate their unborn fetus, Um, anytime Anytime he does that, their wounds are immediately cauterized.

Yeah. So there’s no blood. So silly. Except when blood shoots out of like, uh, cadaver, I think, maybe, at one point, and a tree, a bleeding tree, at another point, directly onto Johnny Depp’s They, like, during the actual kills, there’s really no blood.

Todd: Yeah, I guess that makes it better. I mean, certainly it makes it a little better, but

Craig: Except, I mean, I guess when there is human on, like, non supernatural entity, if no supernatural entity is involved, there may be blood.

Like, at the end, a couple of those famous old guys die. Knock each other on the head. Oh, that’s true.

Todd: Or something like that. Oh boy. Still, when I started it, I was thinking, Oh, maybe this will be something in a year or two, I’ll show Kenji. And then I thought, no, this is not for children really. This is a. No, no, no, it is pretty dark. Yeah, it’s not, it doesn’t fit in the rest of our lineup so far with the, of Halloween as far as the, in between the worst witch and the Goosebumps.

TV, Goosebumps and Dark Night of the Scarecrow TV movie.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah, it is, it’s, it’s more violent than I expected. I don’t know, but there’s, there’s something about it, about the violence that, feels almost quaint. Like it, it feels it’s, it’s almost no worse than the violence that you would see in the old movies, the old hammer movies.

I, now I re I don’t know specifics, but I read that Burton wanted to use as few digital effects as possible, but of course they had to use some digital effects. Like this was the only. filmed version of this story where the headless horseman didn’t have to hide his head underneath the cape like they They computed it out.

They computed his head out But when you see as you often do somebody get decapitated and their head rolling on the ground It’s, it’s CGI. At least some of it. At least they’ve cleaned it up with CGI. I don’t know, it just, it didn’t feel scary to me. I definitely got the vibe. Like, this, this movie is a great vibe.

It’s a great Halloween vibe. Put it on in the background at a party, at a Halloween party.

Todd: You haven’t broken that one out in a while.

Craig: Because there’s great, like everything is a great visual, like if it was just on in the background, anytime you looked at it, it’s going to look great. It’s going to be a great vibe. And, and those rolling heads, they’re a great vibe, but they almost look more like a Halloween gag than. Something really scary.

You know what I’m saying? Yeah, I

Todd: mean,

Craig: they don’t

Todd: look fake. I mean, the prosthetics are actually really quite good. I thought in several cases, very convincing. But, you’re right. It’s, I guess it’s kind of a gruesome, dark joke always when a head rolls towards someone, you know? Or the heads are rolling around on the ground.

Right, but

Craig: you’re not seeing, like, viscera, like, coming out of their neck, you know?

Todd: Yeah, it’s like they’re spurting blood and, you know, the look on their faces. Right, right, right. Yeah, it’s true. Right. Right. Right. Anyway, a lot of heads roll in this movie, that’s for sure. And for that reason, I wouldn’t show it to my kids.

Despite the fact there’s no blood squirting around, the idea of people getting their heads chopped off right and left, quite brutally, really, you know, in these very brutal fight scenes, you know, full of energy and, and I think rather convincing.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a great fight scene with Ichabod. And the headless horseman, which again, doesn’t make any sense.

Like why is Ichabod suddenly jumping into a sword fight? Like it doesn’t, Brom is butch and, and is trying to prove himself or whatever. He’s a dummy for getting into a fight with a supernatural thing that you can’t kill. I mean, I guess he doesn’t know that despite the fact that it has no head. But that’s, that’s one, that’s one part that I really liked.

That was, that’s a great fight scene. It goes on for a long time and there are some surprises in it. I loved the part where they’re standing, looking through the bridge. Like the legend is the Hessian or the Headless Horseman or whatever, can’t cross this bridge. And so they’ve just fought him on one side of the bridge and run to the other side and they’re standing on the other side, looking through and they hear.

Footsteps, but they don’t see anything and in my mind. I’m thinking. Oh my gosh is is he like invisible now? Can he do that? But no, it’s it’s far more logical and practical He’s just walking across the roof and then he jumps down right in front of them But I thought that was a really effective scare.

Yeah, and then they have a big fight a huge choreographed long Like sword fight with different weapons and stuff. And in the end, Brum gets sliced in half. Oh God. It’s crazy. So there are a lot of great things in this movie like that. And because we have clearly already blown our opportunity to talk about this.

From start to finish. I feel like maybe we should just start talking about what are some of our favorite things about this movie

Todd: Well, I’ll tell you all right laying aside the fact that Ichabod is like not really Ichabod that I know He’s investigating things and he’s trying to figure things out What I didn’t really care for was all the investigation in the movie because after a while I got so lost I didn’t I couldn’t keep track of These two families and he would see a clue in a book or a family tree or he would see some symbol and He’d get a knowing look on his face like he sorted something out, and I’d be like, What?

Did I forget something? Or am I just not following closely enough? Am I supposed to understand these connections that are being made? I just kind of gave up, and I think it turned out I didn’t, it didn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. The movie will just eventually tell you, and it doesn’t, and that’s fine.

Craig: To be fair, it all lines up.

Yeah. But it is very, it is very contrived. It is a very complicated web they weave, but everybody is connected in some way and they’ll explain it to you in great detail. When necessary.

Todd: When necessary. There will be a nice monologue to put everything into place.

Craig: Yeah. Even at the very end, when the villain, it, as it turns, okay, so the first half of the movie is the regular story basically, which of course.

There’s a headless horseman and people are scared of it, blah, blah, blah. And then Ichabod’s scared of it and it confronts him on a bridge. And that’s the end of the regular story in the movie. Then they figure out who he is. He’s some spirit that’s coming back from this tree. The tree of the dead, he, he bursts forth out of this tree supernaturally every night and just steals somebody’s head.

And then they figured out who it is. Now we know that it really is him. Then the second half becomes a mystery because somehow Johnny Depp figures out that it’s not really just the Headless Horseman, but somebody is controlling him because they stole his skull out of his grave, buried at the tree, and he just wants his own skull back.

And so that’s why he’s going around killing people. So somebody is controlling him. And when it’s revealed who the. who the villain is, that person then gives a huge monologue that connects all of the pieces.

Todd: Information that is deliberately withheld from you until she can give her monologue and her big reveal

Craig: Well, one of the things that I was very confused by I did understand like all of the old men All of like the town old men who are in charge of everything all of them were connected and I got that there were like sex scandals and All kinds of things going on there.

I understood all that the one thing that I didn’t understand and i’m glad Because this was also another One of my favorite parts of the movie was there was a young family, a husband and a wife and a child, a young child. Like a baby, like a four year old, I guess, maybe, or tiny. And she was a midwife and we, we saw her early on in the movie.

She and her family popped back up later. And then there’s just one scene where the headless horseman just goes after them. Breaks into their house. Yeah. Yes. And, and the mom and the child. are in the back and he just like he fights the dad and then he cuts the dad’s head off and then the mom puts the kid under the floor and The headless horseman just like relentlessly comes for her and chops her head off, too.

Now Mind you, the kid is under the floor, but he can see everything that’s going on. I was Shocked. Yes, like I was I was shook This was so dark to me

Todd: Her head falls to the floor rolls towards a gap in the floorboards to the point where he’s looking up into her dead eyes

Craig: I, I was genuinely shocked. And then the horseman starts to walk out, but he stops in the doorframe and turns around, and goes back in and starts axing through the floor right above the baby.

And you don’t see

Todd: it on camera, but he kills that baby too. Yeah, you, all you see is, it’s the outside and the horseman’s coming out of the house and he’s stuffing a third smaller head into his sack. Oh my

Craig: god! I, uh, mad respect to Tim Burton for doing that, and I read that he said that’s one thing that he hates about horror movies.

Horror movies with kids, the kids are safe, and he didn’t want to do that, and man, that was dark. I was, I, I was legitimately shocked.

Todd: It’s amazing it made it into the final cut because you could have easily cut that. Like, it was almost shot with the idea that it could possibly get cut. And it didn’t. It’s amazing.

Craig: Yeah, it, oh, absolutely. They could have easily cut with him just walking out before he stopped in the door frame. Okay, so that was a part that I loved. I’ll volley it to you. There are other parts I want to talk about, but what were your favorite parts? There’s

Todd: the part where he goes out and the only, I can’t remember what this kid’s relationship was, this, this little boy.

that he ends up kind of partnering with.

Craig: Okay, so his, his dad was the servant of one of the guys that got killed early on. He was Martin Landau’s servant. Oh,

Todd: okay.

Craig: And then he got killed too. Oh,

Todd: okay. So it’s kind of a little orphan kid now.

Craig: He’s a little orphan and, and Ichabod takes him on as a servant, basically adopts him.

Todd: Yeah, okay. So then he’s the only one who’s willing to go into the woods with him to seek down the headless horseman because he figures if he can find him, I don’t know what he’s hoping for, but he’s just gonna try to find him. So he wanders into the woods and it’s just great because it’s just all of these very typical horror movie things.

They come across an old hut in the woods and it looks exactly like a witch’s hut, a fact that they walk into and immediately start stating. It’s a

Craig: cave. It is.

Todd: It’s like a cave in a rock just in the middle of the woods, but not in the side of a mountain or anything, just. Sticking out of the ground and they go in and it’s so funny because you walk in and it’s a classic witches hut and immediately Ichabod is shaking and he holds his gun up and he’s

Clip: like I should like to say that I make no assumptions about your occupation.

No your ways which which which which Nothing to me whatever you are

Craig: Each to his own

Yeah, it was really funny.

Todd: But anyway, I thought this sequence was genuinely scary, and I really liked this bit. I did too. It’s kind of thrown in there, but uh, it just gives him the necessary direction he needs. Because how in the world is he going to find this headless horseman just by walking straight into the woods?

So, the witch is able to chain herself to a table and conjure up a drink. this thing and I mean even this is pretty like again for kids especially pretty gruesome like oh yeah too scary chops the foot off of a of a bird and gets possessed by some spirit of something and leaps onto him and I don’t know what that was I mean it’s all kind of she

Craig: she turns all ghosty faced and like Snakes come out of her eyes.

Her eyes disappear

Todd: somehow. Anyway, loved that bit. Very Halloween. Very scary. Very fun. And she’s the one who tells him the directions, which is to go west on the Old trail to where the sun dies. Well, that’s West. And then, uh, to the, to the tree of the dead. Now, I guess they don’t explore these woods too much, right?

Cause you would think the locals would know all about the tree of the dead, but the tree of the dead is deep into the woods and it’s this giant, awesome looking tree that kind of looks a little bit like a. Man or, you know, something twisted sideways and it’s got all these roots at the bottom and when Ichabod walks up to it You can see the tree itself is bleeding and I just I liked this bit.

I thought yeah, I did too You know what’s gonna happen when they find the grave of this of this horseman? Is he gonna not be in the grave? Is he gonna be around the grave? Like Now they can come back to it, like, what’s the deal? Can they just, like, chop off the body or like, what, what’s gonna happen? And the fact, I think the conceit is that once the Headless Horseman was buried there, this Tree of the Dead kind of grew up around it and became a gateway to hell?

Craig: A gateway to another world is what, or another dimension or something, is what Ichabod Crane just figures out.

Todd: On instinct,

Craig: right? Yeah, yeah. But he’s right, because the, that’s the, like, gate, the, like, the tree opens up and the horse and the horseman just gallop out of it. And it looks cool, I like it, that’s fun.

That was awesome. I also think that it’s cool that, like, the horseman, every time he, He takes somebody’s head, he literally takes it, like he, he doesn’t leave it behind, but apparently, I don’t really understand this, but I guess, like, mortal flesh can’t cross over, because the heads are all just there at the gate.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: And that’s, he finds them there, and then at the end It’s

Todd: like a little head storage place, it’s like he’s squirreling them away like acorns inside the tree, it’s kind of

Craig: Well, I actually thought it was that he was trying to take it with him, but he couldn’t. Oh! The gate cuts. stuck at the front and that kind of explains the very end, right?

Todd: Oh, I think I missed that bit, but you’re right.

Craig: Yeah. I think he, he tries to take them, but he can’t. There’s no need to tease. We’re almost out of time at the very end. We find out who the bad guy who’s been controlling. The horseman is, and that person, I’ll still save it I guess, that person, he grabs and tries to take back with him, but that person gets, like, squashed, like blood just shoots out of the tree and their arm is just left hanging.

Todd: Sticking out. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense then. Okay, I wasn’t quite sure what that was supposed to mean, and now I know.

Craig: Something else that I liked. was the throwbacks to the Disney cartoon. And there were several of them, and I loved that. At one point, Ichabod is going over the bridge, and the frogs underneath the bridge are

Clip: going, Ichabod!

And

Craig: that comes directly from the cartoon, the iconic scene, the scene that they would tease in the commercials every Halloween with the headless horseman rearing his horse up on its hind legs and him headless with a flaming jack o lantern held over his head. They recreate that scene in this and he throws it at Ichabod and it does exactly what the Disney cartoon does with the camera is just right in front of the flaming jack o lantern as it’s moving forward and then it hits Ichabod.

Oh God, I loved that. And in that scene, it turns out that that was not really the headless horseman. That was Brom playing a trick on Ichabod. And that is the reality of the story. Or at least that’s what’s strongly implied. Yeah. That Brom was just playing a trick on Ichabod, but Ichabod was so scared and humiliated that he left town and started a new life.

So I loved that. Didn’t love Christina Ricci. I love Christina Ricci. I am like one of the biggest fans of Christina Ricci. I love her. I didn’t care for her in this movie. Maybe it was just because she was cast opposite. He, I don’t know. It’s not, she just looked like a child to me. It

Todd: was really hard to get over that.

Craig: So it was weird to think of her. It was weird to think of her in any kind of romantic context because she looked like a child. But

Todd: you know, I was thinking about that and It’s not unusual for the time Either this was a time where men in their 20s were marrying 14 year olds, right? That’s true. That’s true So it wasn’t improper, but it just doesn’t feel right when you’re seeing it from a modern in a modern day movie

Craig: well, and their I I felt like their romance was so forced like they barely shared any screen time and like they Immediately fell in love and like she had known him for five seconds before she gave him You A book that her mother had passed down to her?

Like

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: That’s true.

Todd: Whatever. But she’s also more of a plot device, I think, than anything else. True. Because there’s constantly suspicion being cast back and forth as to whether or not she might have something to do with what’s going on. And so, you know, there’s sort of that aspect to it as well. I don’t know.

I didn’t mind her in this movie. I just didn’t think she was that great. Just like, I thought Johnny Depp was a bit uneven and in all this, or maybe just his character was. I just loved seeing all the old, older actors. It was

Craig: just, it was so

Todd: great.

Craig: Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe we’ll think of more things to talk about, but I’m just going to go ahead and say, I think that you should 100 percent watch this movie.

Because I think that you listener might like it more than I did. It is a good movie. All of these people in it are, you know, there are, there are Oscar winners in it. There are Oscar nominees in it. These are established, respectable. Actors and for a good reason and and Tim Burton is great just to see all of these old guys

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: you’ve seen in a million things, but then also to see Really great set work.

It’s it’s it’s so difficult for me because I really have no Specific legitimate complaints. It just didn’t work for me for whatever reason but you should 100 percent watch it and then let us know what you think Cause I am genuinely curious. I don’t hear people talking about this movie. It’s not like I think it’s some kind of classic or even like a cult thing.

Yeah. Um, it, it seems to me like it kind of came and went. It’s true. So I don’t know. If you’re a big fan, please, please just tell me what, why I’m wrong.

Todd: Yeah. It’s funny that you should mention that actually, because come to think of it, I’ve always been aware of this movie. And I think in my mind, this movie was a big deal when it came out.

And maybe it was, it certainly grossed a lot. Like 200 and some million over the course of the year, plus who knows what else. But at the same time But if I really think about it, I haven’t heard or seen much of it since. I mean, there’s a lot of movies from this era that we haven’t. I mean, No. Does anybody talk about Bram Stoker’s Dracula anymore?

Craig: Nerds like me do, but I don’t really hear a lot of talk about this one. And, this would be, you know, we have been in the Thick of the time of year where streaming services and cable services are going out of their way to provide horror and specifically Halloween content. This seems like this would be ideal.

Yes. I haven’t seen it. I

Todd: haven’t either. It was hard to find. You’re right. So, uh, seek it out wherever you can. Definitely watch it. Definitely. That’s our hot take on it. Anyway, I guess I’m, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t really like particularly love it, but I certainly didn’t hate it. It just wasn’t, it wasn’t even what I remembered it being, to be quite frank with you.

And I’m not quite sure why. So, but, but still dripping with Halloween atmosphere.

Craig: Oh yeah. I love that stuff. Like, Jack o lanterns. The very, very first scene has a great. Big scarecrow with a jack o lantern head and I read that it was the Scarecrow from the nightmare before christmas.

Todd: Yeah, it’s exactly that one.

It’s cool.

Craig: And there’s a big halloween party It’s a great halloween party

Todd: Like you said, I encourage our listeners to respond and let us know what they think of this movie and give us some perspectives that maybe we lack here. The way you can do that, to let us know, is just to go to our website, ChainsawHorror.

com. We have all of our episodes up there, including this one. You can leave a comment on it, or of course, you can just search for our podcast anywhere. Two guys and a chainsaw podcast is what we’ll send you to any one of our places. Of course, all of the podcast hosting services, our YouTube channel has a comment section on it as well.

And of course, I just mentioned our patrons page, uh, patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. If you are at all, a member of our patrons, you’re going to be having a lot of fun with us this Halloween because we have a few mini shows that we’ve been posting as supplements to what we’ve been doing. I’m really looking forward actually to talking about this cartoon and the story behind it as well.

So get in on that action, patreon. com slash chainsaw. podcast. There’s no better time than now. Until next time, I’m Todd and I’m Craig with Two Guys and a Chainsaw

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          Don’t be fooled by this little-known horror film: It may be a made-for-TV movie, but it packs a serious emotional punch and a chilling ending. We were guessing all the way through this star-studded slasher movie that turned out to be just what we were looking for in a Halloween pic

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptDark Night of the Scarecrow (1981)Episode 410, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Here we are, we two of Halloween!

Craig: Oh, you’re stupid. I love it.

Todd: I got to do something special. You remember way back at like the first year or two during the Christmas episodes where I would try to do cute things with like a old Christmas songs in the, in the intro, like, you know, you should do it again. I can’t. No, man. YouTube killed me on that.

As soon as we started uploading our stuff to YouTube, we get these copyright. Oh, okay. Things for, for doing that. I’m like, all right, fine. Fine. Not even to be fun. Not even to be funny. I’m not going to clip in any of that stuff. Not that there are any great Halloween songs to clip in either. I mean, how many really are there, but anyway, yeah.

So I don’t do that anymore. So, you know, you’re welcome. That was my ghostly Todd next week is your turn, buddy. Oh

Craig: yeah. Well, yeah. Second week of Halloween movies. I’m excited. Cause I’d never seen this one before. Oh my God. Um, this is going to sound so stupid, but I swear to God, it’s true. Like. It’s, it’s cold outside and I’m like all snuggled up in a blanket and I’m like,

It’s

Todd: time for Halloween. I’m so excited. Did you ever buy those Halloween scare tapes? You know, I was obsessed with them, right? Where you’re just supposed to play it. It’s supposed to be like a soundtrack for your haunted house or something.

Craig: No, but I do sometimes, I do sometimes when I’m reading put on like spooky, like I’ll go to, like spooky

Todd: music.

That is so dorky, but also kind of cool.

Craig: I told you before, I think I, I cannot stand silence. I hate silence. I have to have something happening. The TV has to be on when I sleep at night, I sleep in front of a huge fan all throughout the whole year. The problem. Is that when it’s silent, then any tiny noise that I hear is so distracting.

Does that make sense? Like, yeah, just the regular, the regular noises of a house or a building makes sense, distracts me. And like, I can’t sleep if I’ve got that white noise in the background.

Todd: I’m good. Okay. Well, what I was talking about was I’m actually talking about those cassette tapes that would have like.

Ooh, with like clanging chains and ghosts and howls of werewolves and maybe a little bit of music. I’ve been to haunted houses there and there.

Craig: Yeah, sure.

Todd: Oh

Craig: yeah, man. No, I never had them, but

Todd: one of these tapes, it was, I might even still own it. It was like my prized possession, especially at Halloween time.

I would break that sucker out and I would try to play it as much as possible. Yeah, I miss those. Those are like childhood Halloween things that I’ll probably never revisit as an adult. Right. But YouTube , yeah, I’m sure. I guess I’m sure they’re on there. They’re probably more sophisticated now, too. This movie that we’re doing is called Dark Knight of the Scarecrow from 1981, and it’s a made for television slasher film.

I guess you could call it a slasher film. It has been requested a number of times by several publishers. That’s what I was gonna say. I feel like this has

Craig: been requested a lot.

Todd: It really has been, and almost every time that Halloween comes up and we’re asking people for Halloween suggestions, at least one person pops in.

Saying, hey, do Dark Knight of the Scarecrow, and I have to admit, I looked it up, because it sounds cool, but then I looked it up and I was like, oh, it’s a made for TV movie, and it’s like PG, and I thought, oh, you know, put that on hold.

Craig: It certainly probably would be rated PG, I think what I’m looking at tells me that it’s not rated.

And I’m not really clear because I read that it was originally intended to be a theatrical film, but then it was released on TV, but at the same time it felt made for TV because. As made for TV movies do it had clearly built in moments for commercial breaks. Yeah.

Todd: Well, it wasn’t shot for theater. It was written for theatrical films and it was written by JD Fagelson.

He wanted to do a feature film and it ended up getting bought by CBS, but Apparently they shot it with very, very few changes to the original screenplay. Anyway, I think if it had been theatrical, it probably would have been just gorier. You know what I mean? They probably would have been a little more explicit with the action, but.

Yeah,

Craig: it’s, that’s so funny. Like, I didn’t know anything about this. I didn’t know that it was a Halloween movie. Like, I mean, it sounds kind of Halloweeny, I guess. And. It’s not like Halloween plays a huge role. Like it just happens to be at Halloween and they go to a Halloween dance at some point, but it’s not like Halloween features heavily, but whatever.

It’s very Halloween y. I get it. I can especially see like, if this was something that you saw when you were young, and I feel like maybe a lot of people did see it when they were young because it’s safe. Obviously we’ll talk about the details, but most of the deaths in this movie are accidents.

It’s not, it’s not like Jason is running around with an ax or a machete or whatever and like chopping people up or shooting them with like, mostly people just like fall down or something.

Todd: Yeah. That’s why I hesitated to call it a slasher film. But also this is something that I grew to really like about the movie.

Because as it went on, I felt like there was just this mystery, like what is happening to these people? Is there something behind this or are they getting up in their heads? Is there, yeah, I just, I wasn’t quite sure up until the very end. And I will say. Even after the very end, I still am not a hundred percent sure, but I was pleasantly surprised by this one.

I really, really liked it. It’s not going to go down as like the scariest thing I’ve seen. Cause it’s not, I mean, scary. I don’t know if you call a movie like this really, really scary. It really pulled at my emotions and it kept me guessing throughout. And had a very satisfying ending. And I was kind of wondering, like, why have more people not seen, I guess, just because it was a TV movie, it is in a pristine restored copy, I think pretty much everywhere, like on, you can get it for free on YouTube.

Like it’s been uploaded a few times there. I think it’s on Tubi. It’s on a lot of streaming services. And the picture looks like it was shot yesterday. It is crystal clear and nice and not in that annoying way that sometimes they restore movies and it’s just a little too clean. This just looks like a very love it.

Like they were probably able to go back to the negatives. They’ve still existed and they’ve still must’ve been an excellent shape to be able to go in there and restore this like they did because nobody would have seen it on TV on television as clean and as nice as, uh, As I got to see at this time and that helped too.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. It looks good, but it still shows its age in that way. It does shot. It, it, it looks very much like what, when did this come out? 80 early eighties, right? 81. Yeah, very much 81. And it looks like that.

Todd: It looks like late seventies, early eighties. One thing that makes it very eighties and dated is the people in it.

There are. Just like these TV movies would tend to do, Land, there are just, it’s chock full of stars, you know? Not necessarily A level, A list stars of the time, but oftentimes A list stars of the 50s and the 60s, or those bit player guys who you’ve seen in like every movie since the dawn of the golden age, you know, things like that.

And including the star, Charles Jerning, I love this guy.

Craig: I love every guy. Maybe we remember him from the same thing. Cause I know that it was a big part of our childhoods, but he was the governor. And the best little house in

Todd: Texas. Yeah. Yeah. And he’s one of the,

Craig: it’s one of my favorite parts of the movie.

If ever I had an opportunity to be in that show and like this, the stage play is different. So I don’t even know if his character is in it, but I always wanted to play that role. Cause he just comes in at the very end and sings a really fun song. It’s just like, dances out just

Todd: like his character. Ooh, I love to dance a little sidestep.

It’s so

Craig: good.

Todd: Yeah. It was also though, as a terrified of him as doc Hopper in the Muppet movie. I see who owns the frog leg restaurant or whatever. And it’s trying to get Kermit. I thought he was the most evil man on the planet when I was little, who’s

Craig: been in so many things. I don’t remember the Muppet movie.

I didn’t watch it a lot. For whatever reason, we were a Muppets take Manhattan family.

Todd: A little late to the

Craig: party there. Weren’t you? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Charles journey has been in so many things. He’s got a really distinctive voice and, and it was unsettling for me. Because he’s a bad man in this movie. He is a terrible, terrible person.

And you said, yeah, he’s awful. And he is not a good representative of the United States Postal Service either.

Todd: Which happens to get a lot of representation in this movie, for better or for worse. Mostly for worse. I didn’t notice it myself, but I read in the trivia that he never takes that uniform off. He is in his postal service uniform.

The entire time.

Craig: Yeah. The same costume every day for the whole 17 or 18 days that it took to film this movie, he never changes out of that costume. But like he is just a creepo from from the get out. And at one point he’s we’ll get to it sequentially. But at one point he’s talking to a little girl and he’s like, I’m the postman.

Nobody’s scared of the postman. And I’m like. I am? If it’s you, you weird creepo!

Todd: Oh my god. This guy, I mean like, we’ve lived in small towns, and there is this kind of thing where people who probably shouldn’t be end up through just the fact that it’s a small town and they’re particularly bullying, that they get outsized egos and have undue influence, you know, over everybody.

And and so it’s kind of cute. I mean, it’s cute that the postman of this small town, you know The one guy who handles the mail, that’s how small this town is He’s the evil guy I there’s a courtroom scene later and I thought that was so funny because it looked just like a tiny small town courtroom And, and settled just like matters might have been settled in a small town courtroom.

Probably. One judge hearing everything and giving his opinion and that’s that, you know, uh. Oh, there’s so much to talk about.

Craig: I know, I was gonna say you’re jumping ahead the time like that. I know, I know. That courtroom scene made me so mad because at one point the judge is like,

Clip: Sam, these men are members of the community, they’re not criminals.

But your honor, they went out. Sam, I’ll tell you the truth. After listening to the arguments. I don’t think you have a case against him. Henry, your honor. These men went out with no legal right. Sam, Sam, you have produced no witnesses. You have produced no evidence. You have not shown me one thing to prove that what happened is any different than what they say.

Craig: Yeah, there is a ton of evidence and a witness. Like, I don’t know. I mean, the mom didn’t look at it. Anyway, all right. So you had said that the movie surprised you because it tugged at your heartstrings. That’s ultimately kind of how I walked. I walked away from it. Like that was a sad movie. Like it’s terrible.

It feels like an. And I feel like it could have been an episode of Tales from the Crypt or Tales from the Dark Side or something like that because it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s a morality play where bad people do something really bad and then they get their comeuppance. It reminds me a lot of Pumpkinhead. Um, because it’s centered around the death of an innocent, the, the brutal murder of an innocent in pumpkin head.

It was a little boy in this case. It’s a grown man played by Larry Drake. It’s this guy named Bubba who has special needs. He’s mentally challenged.

Todd: He starts out just sitting in a flower field with this little girl named Mary Lee, and when that opened up like that, I was like, oh, please don’t be like this.

What’s a more cliche thing than this little girl and this, well, in this case, anyway, I mean, it could be, it could be anybody kind of along this, any kind of relationship along these lines, but in this case, like you said, it’s a mentally challenged 36 year old, 32 year old man. Who’s there playing with her in the fields and they’re making flower rings and stuff.

And I thought

Craig: it’s so sweet. It’s totally innocent, but like it immediately, you know, you’re going into this movie. I knew what was going to happen, but they’re just, it’s so innocent and, uh, and sweet. They clearly have an established relationship. Like it seems like they’re like best friends. Yeah. It almost seems like she even understands that he’s different and she knows how to communicate with him in a way that you don’t understand.

Todd: And she teaches him things and it’s sweet and cute. And this kind of thing can happen immediately. I was thinking, Oh, please let this be like, I don’t want to sound like ridiculous, but I was just like, please let this be a more sensitive portrayal and not super hokey and kind of offensive. And I don’t think it was, you know, I was thinking back to the leprechaun where we thought, It was like a mentally challenged guy in there and it feels a little dated and maybe a little offensive the way he’s portrayed, but this feels very realistic and tender.

It does.

Craig: And Larry Drake also played mentally challenged person on law and order for a long time. And, and I think. That at that time, he got a lot of acclaim for his portrayal. Things are just so different now. Culturally, we’re just much more sensitive about those kinds of things, especially when you have stereotypical neurotypical people playing people with mental handicaps or, or.

Yeah, whatever. We’re just more sensitive and, and as we should be, but I can look back on something like this. And I was thinking the same thing, like, Oh, please let it be respectful. Let it not be a joke. Um, but it wasn’t, it, it, it wasn’t, this is a kind, innocent person who doesn’t deserve what is coming to him and doesn’t even deserve the scrutiny.

Now. Yeah. I feel like they’re setting it up that this evil Otis Charles Durning guy casts suspicion on Bubba. He is the one who is watching this little girl through binoculars. Like I don’t like what, what are you doing? Like why are you watching them? Why are you creeping on the side of the road watching them with binoculars?

Are we well, and then, and so then he drives, he drives, he immediately, I guess it’s on his route. I don’t know, but he drives to his friend’s house. Harless played by Lane Smith, who is totally recognizable too. And it’s like,

Clip: he’s out there again. And

Craig: he’s got the Williams

Clip: girl.

You know what he’s liable to do? Yes. Well, let’s get down there and break it up then. Oh, good. Would it do? Two days, he’ll be back again just like before. Not this time. I’m gonna teach that moron a lesson. You’re wasting your time. Just you wait and see. When I get through with him You’re wasting your time.

He’s an idiot. He can’t remember. You ought to know that by now.

Craig: Like what? What are you talking about? And it’s not that I think that it’s an unbelievable conceit that people might be concerned about a relationship between an adult man and a child, but this guy seems particularly invested in it without reason.

Like he doesn’t, the only thing that he observes that I suppose. As an outside observer might be questionable is the little girl kisses Bubba on the cheek. But if you watch the scene, he is really reluctant to do that because he’s concerned. Bubba is concerned that it might not be appropriate. And yeah, he kind of insists upon it.

Clip: Now I have to give you a kiss. Come on, Bubba. You have to. It’s the custom. Comes with the flower. And give it back.

Craig: It’s totally innocent. Totally, totally innocent.

Todd: Otis is just one of these mean, nasty guys. And these people do exist, I’m afraid. They do. Oh,

Craig: absolutely.

Todd: They just like stirring up trouble, casting suspicion on other people. I would say psychological. Usually it’s because they have problems of their own that they’re trying to distract from or whatever.

It’s so believable that this guy would be the way he is. And like you said, a reason is given to, and more than alluded to later in the movie, more than once that he might even be a bit of a pedophile, but you know, there’s no direct evidence of that.

Craig: Uh, kind of came out of nowhere, but as soon as it came up, I was like, Oh yeah, he

Todd: is totally a creep.

Yeah, I didn’t, I wasn’t really thinking about it either because I was just so focused on how he just hated Bubba, but then I was like, oh, well, maybe that is the reason why he’s, yeah. What, what, what a big reason why he hates him so much in the first place is because he’s spending so much time with this girl that he thinks, you know, he likes.

So yeah, he’s disgusting and then he, he kind of makes the rounds and bitches at everybody about Bubba, which clearly he’s done this many, many times before. And they, his friends talk about this too. Oh, you’re always talking about him and all that, but they don’t like disagree necessarily. They sort of seem to be humoring him.

But also later we kind of find out it seems like this isn’t the first time that they’ve all kind of gone up in arms about Bubba as well.

Craig: Because what happens, what happens immediately, it’s all in the first half hour. There’s actually kind of a lot of exposition. The first half hour is all kind of set up for the slasher movie.

I feel like in most slasher movies, you would kind of get this in the backstory, but we see the back. We see the backstory. So Bubba is with a little girl and they’re just walking down the street and they come to a fence and she looks through into this garden full of garden gnomes. That was weird. Like not just like one little garden gnome in the corner.

Like, like it was populated. Oh, they have a collection. And they were just out and about. Like these

Todd: are garden gnome enthusiasts.

Craig: So they were anyway, but the girl is fascinated. She’s like, Oh look, they have a new fountain. Let’s go in through the fence and see. And Bubba’s like, I can’t. This guy has obviously been taught by his mother that he can’t do anything wrong.

Because if he missteps, it’s going to be big trouble. And so he’s very cautious. And he says, I can’t go in. And she tries to get him to go, but he won’t. But she goes in. And then, she’s attacked by a dog. Which we don’t see, at all. But then, uh.

Todd: But we hear, and it’s almost 10 times worse, really.

Craig: Yes, except for, It didn’t bother me because I get it.

It’s a ratings thing, it’s TV. Bubba does go in to try to help her. We see him going in to try to help her. But the next thing is at her parents house, the mother hears a knock at the door, and when she opens it, it’s Bubba there holding her, seemingly dead, and Bubba is just saying, like, Bubba didn’t do it, Bubba didn’t do it.

Then it cuts to some, I don’t remember how Otis finds out about this, but what he hears is that the girl is dead. And it was Bubba that did it. I don’t think it’s

Todd: ever really explained. He just, uh, jumps off and

Craig: Large Marge tells him! Maybe No, no, no, that’s No, the breakfast scene comes much later. That’s when he learns his friend is dead.

But, but, guys, in case you were wondering if Large Marge is in this movie, she

Todd: is. We know this is a question some of you ask each other the minute we fire up every episode. And several times you haven’t been wrong. And today would be one of them.

Craig: So anyway, Otis puts together a posse. It’s him and three other guys.

There’s Harliss played by Lane Smith, who is in, I looked at his IMDb page because he’s so familiar and I did recognize a couple of things that he was in, like, I feel like he plays the stern dad in a lot of, Late eighties, early nineties stuff, but anyway, he’s familiar. And then there’s also Philby and Skeeter.

And I looked them up. I didn’t remember anything that they were in one’s a, one’s a real scrawny guy, one’s a heavier, sick guy, but he puts them all together and they grab their guns and they get their search dogs and they immediately head to his house and they’re chasing him. This poor man who has done nothing wrong is.

terrified and running home and he and they’re chasing him and he gets there and talks to his mother who just seems so kind and and is trying to reassure him that he didn’t do anything wrong and everything’s gonna be okay she by the way is played by

Todd: Jocelyn Brando, Marlon Brando’s older sister.

Craig: Right.

Todd: Which is It is funny, apparently, uh, well even members of the Brando family have said that her star could have shone just as bright as Marlon Brando’s did if alcoholism hadn’t derailed her career. But, uh, I think that was an issue with, uh, in their family. Yeah. Anyway, but, uh, yeah, it’s too bad.

Craig: I, I like her in this, like I totally believe her as the mother of this man.

She’s doing her best to take care of him, and, and she says something like, remember what we did last time? And then when the posse eventually shows up, she says, yeah, you guys are always harassing him. So it seems like they’re constantly accusing him of things that he hasn’t done. It brings the dogs out and

Todd: everything,

Craig: but she tells, she tells Bubba, remember last time we’ll play the hiding game, play the hiding game.

So he runs off

Clip: and

Craig: then the posse arrives and they confront her and they’re abusive to her, but she. Stands her ground. It’s

Todd: it’s pretty strong.

Craig: Yeah, she’s a tough old broad.

Todd: I liked her character a lot in this movie. Yeah, this person who’s been taking care of this, you know, adult child basically for 36 years.

Like she knows what to do and it’s a small town and things like this are ten times more difficult in a small town like this where there’s gossip and everybody knows everybody and people just won’t sometimes leave you the hell alone.

Craig: That’s definitely true, but it can go the other way too when it’s that small.

Oh, it can. Look. When it’s that small of a community, somebody like Bubba would, because the only thing that we’ve seen of him is that he’s kind and gentle, he would be embraced, I think, you know, in a small community.

Todd: It’s true, I would think so too, or at least there would be a faction of people who recognize and love him and, you know, go out of their way to be kind to him.

You see no evidence of that in this movie at all. No,

Craig: no, the thing that bothers me, okay, so, the dogs, because they have dogs, the dogs sniff him out, and he’s hiding as a scarecrow. Like, he has put on a scarecrow outfit.

Todd: They must have had it at the ready, you know what I mean? I don’t know. That went pretty quickly, too. I mean, to tell you the truth, I put a sack

Craig: over his head. convincing scarecrow.

Todd: Hangs himself up on a,

Craig: on a, yeah, like, like crucifies himself, basically, and looks like a scarecrow. It does not look like that man up on that pole, because I don’t believe for a second that it was.

Right. Because the, the dogs lead them to the scarecrow and Otis. Walks right up to it, and then we get a real tight, tight close up on the scarecrow’s mask. And you see Bubba’s eyes inside, terrified and crying. It’s horrible. It’s awful. Todd, it made me I was

Todd: really mad. I was really upset. I was too. I was super upset during this thing.

I thought this TV movie did what TV movies aren’t supposed to do. They execute him.

Craig: It’s horrible. All four of those men shoot him multiple times. Then it’s like, uh, Breaker Breaker 1 9, you out there? Like, the second after they have shot him. Execution style, as he cried and begged, the radio comes in and they’re like,

Clip: Blaster from

the clinic center,

Craig: oh yeah. And they all just look at each other like, uh oh. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. But then it jumps immediately to that trial that you were talking about.

Todd: Yeah, that trial, I mean, a lot of times trials just aren’t, they’re not realistic in movies, right? It’s just like, it’s fine, you know, get to the point, you know, they were let off the hook by some small town nonsense, you know, that’s really what it is.

But what evidence

Craig: do they need? Okay, so He’s dead with bullet holes in him, in the Yeah, and after, after they shoot him, I guess they

Todd: set up Oh, it’s so lame, it’s pretty lame

Craig: actually. They put a pitchfork in the crook of his arm. And so their defense is that they shot him in self defense and the judge is like, Are you sure you didn’t give him a chance to surrender?

And they’re like, Oh yeah, we definitely did. Oh, we did your honor.

Todd: We swear. And then we shot him that

Craig: point blank range 27 times. I mean, come on, it’s ridiculous. But they get off and it’s so gross because not only do they get off, They are not only remorseless, but

Todd: cocksure. Not only that. Boastful. Boastful.

And they’re greeted just outside the courtroom by mostly cheering and happy people. I thought there would be like another faction there. I thought there would be some people who are angry, some people who are maybe their friends. But it seems like everybody is so relieved. It makes it look like the whole town.

You know, except for Bubba’s mom, are relieved that they got off scot free. Again, I think it’s oversimplifying the small town politics. You know, essentially, these are the good ol boys, and this is the well respected guy in town, and so nobody believes But it’s not entirely

Craig: unrealistic either.

Todd: No,

Craig: it’s not.

Unfortunately, it’s crazy. Small town politics are crazy, but it also like I was just then so uncomfortable that those men just continue to go about their lives and Otis continues to go out and be like the friendly. Mailman, like people are greeting him at the mailbox. Oh, hey Otis. How are you doing? That man is a

Todd: murderer and you know it.

Well later, he’s gonna show up at Bubba’s mom’s door and he is smug and almost taunting there. It’s so disgusting. By this point I was like, I cannot wait to see this man die. And so good job movie you set it up really really well I could not wait to see how these people were gonna go. Well, that’s true.

But the

Craig: other three I didn’t feel sorry for them I felt a little sorry for the last one for Skeeter I felt like they were all painted as being really Simple and yeah, I, I almost felt like without Otis’s influence, they wouldn’t have done that. They, they were just following. I mean, he’s evil. He’s disgusting, but he’s smarter than them and he manipulates them.

You, you actually even see that more after the fact than before, but if, if he’s capable of it after he was probably capable of it before too. That’s how he riled everybody up into, you know, Doing this anyway, so I have more sympathy for them. I wasn’t sad when they started dying and like so The scarecrow not a scarecrow the scarecrow shows up in Harliss’s field

Todd: Yeah, and he’s like what in the hell and he immediately goes to you know the town restaurant Where, uh, the other two are sitting.

And he sits down and he’s like, What in the hell? This is not funny, guys. Of course, they’re like, What? What are you talking about? No, we swear we didn’t do it. So then the three of them go to Otis and they’re scared. And they’re like, Somebody knows what we did because somebody put that in the field. And Otis is like, It must be Sam, who is the prosecutor.

Who had this very, you know, straightforward phrase. What did he say? Justice. What did he say?

Craig: He just said, as soon as I have evidence, I’ll come after you. It was the mom. It was the mom who said there’s other justices in this world besides the law. Yes. And I love it. I thought it was so great. It felt like a curse.

It

Todd: did! This movie is so clever because that also starts to cast suspicion on the mom. They end up, you know, eliminating people and kind of going through a laundry list of things, like, who could it have been who did that? And of course, their first thing is it’s the prosecutor. The prosecutor’s trying to draw them out.

And, uh, so they go to Otis boarding house. Otis lives at a boarding house. He’s a town post man. He’s been living here, I guess, for a very long time. Very well known in the community, but he doesn’t have a place of his own.

Craig: Well, cause he’s a creeper! Different time. Yeah, I guess so! He’s a creepy pedo grosso.

Yeah. So he lives in a boarding house. I don’t think those, those still exist, but it’s always so quaint in movies where, you know, this one old lady cooks for all these old bachelor men, like, that’s so funny to me! And then you have that breakfast scene where, okay, so Harlan gets killed, he sees, like, the, the scarecrow apparently is like an omen.

It shows up right before you’re going to get killed. But the way that he gets killed is like, he hears something in his barn. And then I think he hears something up in the hayloft. So he climbs up there and then the wood chipper below the law turns on by itself. And that startles him, so he stumbles and falls into it, like that’s what I say, it’s not like, it’s not like somebody is coming after these guys with an axe, it’s just like circumstantial

Todd: things.

But something had to start the woodchipper. Right. Which is a whole thing. Right. Which is a whole thing. And, and, I mean, didn’t you know, the minute you saw, like, that guy, the very first time we saw him was cleaning out a wood chipper, and I was like, oh, please let that be. Please let that be. But you don’t see anything.

Don’t even think, no, not even a spray of, of blood on the, any blood.

Craig: Nothing You’ve seen, nothing

Todd: disappointing. Actually, I really liked the way that scene was constructed. I think all of these death scenes were well constructed. It was cool how they did it for tv, but they kept the suspense, like they didn’t make it just over, you know?

Like he could’ve like, whoa, whoa, and then just fell off. He drops his sickle in there first, and you hear that get ground up, and then he grabs onto a light, which starts sparking, and he’s swinging by the light over it for a little bit, and then, you know, the light falls, and of course he falls into the chipper, and you basically hear that same sound, except it’s his bones.

But yeah, it’s kind of this long scene, very satisfying, I thought, but really well constructed, really well shot, really well lit. The movie, I think, yes, it does have the trappings of a TV movie, because it’s got the commercial breaks, it’s kind of got that plot, it’s got that level of tameness to it. But I thought it was a cut or two above on the beauty of the picture.

The lighting was really good. The angles were really clever and the foreshadowing that you got with a lot of different things was, was quite nice as well.

Clip: That

Craig: didn’t occur to me at the time. Now that you’re saying it, and I’m thinking about that scene and I’m thinking about the way that the swinging light was like.

Illuminating his face. Yes, I see. It. It, it didn’t really stand out to me as being spectacular, but I, I see what you’re saying. I think this movie is charming and successful in what it was doing. Knowing that it was a TV movie growing up, watching tv, movies, I think I would’ve liked this. Yeah, I, I, I think for sure.

It’s scary enough. You know, you don’t see a lot, but you know, what’s happening. And it’s, it’s the scary, it’s like Salem, Salem’s lot in a way. Really? Yes. It was much scarier because of Tim Curry’s performance, but. You didn’t really see a whole lot there either. As a TV movie, I think it works really well.

And because of that, that opens up the audience. Yes. You could watch this with your 8, 9, 10 year old at Halloween time. Yeah, you could. It’s suggestive, but it’s not directly violent. I don’t know, I wouldn’t, because I’m really, I’m still upset. Yeah. Well, but the good thing about it is, though, that the guys all do get their comeuppance, so I guess that’s fair.

That’s

Todd: true. Speaking of things that get you upset about this movie. Let’s talk about the girl for a second. So she comes to, and she doesn’t know that her friend is dead.

Craig: No, and her parents aren’t going to tell her.

Todd: Aren’t going to say, what are they gonna tell her? What a bad parenting move. But anyway, the dad was like,

Craig: it’ll pass.

Todd: Pretty soon she’ll just wonder where Bubba is, this guy that she played with every day out in the field. She’ll

Craig: quit acting, she’ll quit asking eventually.

Todd: They were like best friends and you can tell because she wakes up in the middle of the night and she goes to the window and it’s all windy and it, and it starts to feel a little creepy here.

Bubba, Bubba? And you’re like, why is she calling for Bubba? And she runs outside, it’s, it’s the middle of the night and she runs to Bubba’s house, which clearly is something she’s done many times because she goes to what is supposed to be his bedroom window and taps on it and when she doesn’t get a response, She just walks into the house.

I guess it’s unlocked. Goes up the stairs. I loved how this little, uh, one story ranch house suddenly got an extra story on it after she went inside. This house looks twice as big on the inside and has an extra story. But anyway, she goes up the stairs and mama comes out. Bubba’s mom. And it’s like, what are you doing here, sweetheart?

She’s like, oh, I’m looking for Bubba. And she’s like, oh, did nobody tell you? And then she says, Baba, Baba has gone away. Like, where did he go? Well, he’s gone somewhere where nobody’s going to hurt him anymore. Well, we need to find him. Oh my God, dude. This was just really upsetting to me. Well, and

Craig: she, I think she runs out.

She’s like, I know the places where he hides and she runs out into the field and the mom chases her. And when the mom finds her, the girl’s like, don’t worry. Bubba’s not gone. He’s just being silly. He’s playing the hiding

Todd: game. Yes. She’s sitting at the foot of the cross of that scarecrow, which I guess they left up and picking flowers.

In the middle of the night. I hahahahaha Anyway, it’s creepy. And you’re like, wait a minute. Okay, now are we creepy ghost bubba? You know, with the creepy girl now, who’s like friends with the ghost? So it adds that element in there. At least she’s fine now. So that’s the Okay, so there’s a scarecrow at Harliss place, and he falls in the wood chipper, and instead of seeing blood splatter, we get a plop of preserves on, uh, Otis plate at the boarding house.

Craig: And I like, honestly, I don’t usually read stuff about these movies beforehand, maybe the brief plot summary, but I do often look at the cast to see if I’m going to recognize people and the woman who is the the boarding house lady. Is played by large Marge Alice none yes and I pretty sure that her profile picture on imdb is large Marge that is just one of my favorite childhood memories when I was so young and watching peewee’s playhouse I really thought.

That that part of that movie was so scary, not like I was scared by it, but I just loved it because I was like, Here is the scary part. Large Marge holds a very dear place in my heart. So I was happy to see her for three seconds. That she’s in this movie.

Todd: We’ve talked about her previously on here. She was Mrs.

Callahan in The Fury. She was also in Trick or Treat. You remember that rock and roller ghost story? Where at the end he gets all electric and stuff? I remember the

Craig: movie. I don’t remember her in it. God, we’ve got so many 400 plus episodes. I have no recollection of it at all. Okay. So, but so then, you know, the guys like get together and they’re nervous and you know, what’s going on.

The next one to go is Philby. He works at a grain factory. He sees the scarecrow. He tells them the other guys, he tries to show them, but it’s gone. Then he’s at the grain factory at night, and he, he hears something, and then it turns out to be nothing, but then he sees like a dark figure going into the office or something, and he tries to drive away, but his car won’t start, and he’s having, like, heart problems, so he’s taking his nitrous pills, and, Yeah, the car won’t start.

So he gets out and he runs and he thinks somebody’s following him. So he locks himself in a grain bin. And I knew immediately, like, Oh God, good job, dummy. Like he locks himself in the bottom of a grain silo. And then he tries to get out, and then the grain starts pouring in, and he gets covered in grain and killed.

Okay, now, first of all, things like this certainly can happen, and it does happen. Yeah, it does. People die.

Todd: They usually fall in if they

Craig: Yeah. The next day, or whenever it is that Otis finds out that he’s dead, They say that he died of a heart attack. God,

Todd: that was so stupid. And unnecessary. Why did they say that?

Craig: They find him buried in the silo, with his arm outstretched towards the heavens, and his hand sticking out. And they’re like, uh, it’s probably a heart

Todd: attack.

Well they do say, first it was the heart attack, then it was the grain. As though they can know these things, you know. Oh my god. Yeah, but didn’t you know? Just like he was cleaning the wood chipper, the minute I saw that guy at that grain silo, I thought someone’s gonna fall into this grain silo. That’s exactly what’s gonna happen.

Well, it wasn’t quite like that, but it was. That’s why it surprised

Craig: me when the third guy, the last guy, except for Otis, Is a mechanic and you see him rolling out from under cars several times. And I know he was going to get crushed under a car.

Todd: I did too. And you know what? That could have been the way it eventually went.

If other things didn’t happen, right? You know, there’s another thing we’re missing here though. And that is that as, and before all this is happening, the guys are trying to figure out who it is. They’re like, well, it can’t be Sam, because Sam seemed awfully disturbed after the first guy was killed, you know, it’s not like he would kill this guy, and he doesn’t, you know, he’s not showing anything on his face, and so they’re like, it must be Mrs.

Ritter, and so, instead of just going and, he kind of, kind of confronts her, this is when Otis goes to the door And is like, being real weird with her, delivering her mail, but he’s like, a little bit threatening, he’s like, you know what, you got one, that means we’re even, you can stop now. And she was like,

Craig: f you.

Yeah.

Todd: As she should, and that’s, and then she, he’s like, what did you say, what was that thing you said earlier? And she’s like, there’s justice besides the law, right? So then you’re thinking, maybe, okay, it’s gotta be somebody, right, doing these things. Right. But then the girl’s acting real creepy like she’s got a ghost friend.

Otis is all

Craig: paranoid. He confronts her. He was so He confronts her in such a creepy way. Like at the Halloween dance. Everybody’s at the Halloween dance, and the kids are like playing hide and seek, and Mary Lee ends up by herself, and Otis confronts her and is like,

Clip: Hey, you’re not afraid of me. I’m the mailman.

No one’s afraid of the mailman. Let me see your costume. Isn’t that pretty? Let me see if I can guess who you are. Uh, fairy princess, right? No, no, that’s not it. I know who it is. Mommy, right? Huh?

Show your costume to Mrs. Ritter? Hmm? She’s your friend, isn’t she? Yeah, sure. She’s mine, too. Bet you didn’t know that, did you? Huh? You know something? I think Mrs. Ritter’s trying to play a joke on me and some of my friends.

Craig: What did she tell you? Just, oh, it’s a secret? Oh, that’s okay, just whisper it in my ear.

You can whisper it in my ear, I won’t tell anybody, it’ll still be a secret. When he had confronted Bubba’s mom at her screen door on her porch, under the guise of being her postman, That bothered me, too. My grandpa was a United States postal worker for like 50 years, and he took a lot of pride in his work, and they are good social public servants.

They’re not creepos. Let this not be a stain

Todd: upon the Postal Service. As prominent as Postmen and the U. S. Postal Service in general and its logo and its trucks and its uniforms are in this movie. This does not reflect upon them yet, but the mom

Craig: had said to him, I’ve seen the way that you look at that little girl and he was obviously taken aback.

Like, yeah, there was something to feel guilty about. And so, so now he’s confronting her. She eventually talks to him. She’s silent for a long time, but she eventually She says, Bubba told me everything. And, and he says, Bubba didn’t tell you anything, Bubba’s dead. And she says, I know. And RUNS AWAY!! Ohhh, Jesus.

Ahahaha. I loved that, like, Ugh, I just, it felt like a standoff between them. It’s so uncomfortable because of the power dynamic. Not only is he an adult man, but he clearly has some authority in this community. And she is just, you know, she is, she’s nothing, she has nothing, she’s a child. But when she came back at him with a, I know, it was like, right away.

And then I also liked that she ran around the corner and he was chasing her, and I think a cop stopped him and was like, What are you doing?

Todd: Party’s back there. Yeah.

Craig: And I kinda liked that tiny, and it’s the only one, but that tiny suggestion that somebody finally Was looking at this guy like what are you doing?

Todd: There’s just this hint that there is some authority here. You know, that it’s above this guy He can be put in his place and I love how these two women Absolutely every time put him in his place and stand up to him But he seems convinced that the woman is behind it And so we get this long evening thing where the woman is at home and she puts some tea cattle on the stove And she goes to start her knitting, and I, I jumped, Han comes out from behind her, her rocking chair, and goes around her mouth, and it’s, I mean, there’s no question that it’s, that it’s Otis.

And, uh, he starts threatening her, and he says, I know that you’re doing this, now you’ve got two, And, uh, there better not be a third, yadda yadda yadda yadda, and, uh, when he moves his hand away from her mouth, she has had a heart attack.

Craig: Heh, that was weird. I could see the moment when it happened, like, the actress Yeah, it was there.

The actress acted it, like, Heh, heh, heh, heh, heh. Something in her eyes, like, Shifted, and I could see, oh, something just happened, but at the same time I was thinking, are you serious? I know, I always hate this. Did she just like, did she just have a stroke and die? Like, cause he takes his hand off her mouth and moves around in front of her and then just realizes that she’s dead.

He scared her to death.

Todd: Which is always hokey in movies. For a brief moment, I thought maybe you’d suffocated her and I was like, okay, that could be cool. But no. No. She just was scared to death. That was disappointing. But this asshole, as he is leaving, looks at the kettle on the stove and reali gets his plan.

And so he basically, uh I like I like that

Craig: because the as he’s walking out, The kettle starts screaming and it’s a jump scare. It scares him. It didn’t scare me, but it startled me. And that’s what gives him the idea. He takes the tea kettle off and turns the gas off and then hesitates and turns it back on.

I also don’t, this doesn’t ring true to me. Like if you have a burning fire and your fireplace and the gas gets turned on, will your house explode as though. A ton of TNT was in there. A nuclear weapon dropped on it. That was like,

Todd: that was literally a mushroom cloud.

It’s true folks. It was a mushroom cloud. The TV movies got to use stock footage, I guess, you know, they were each way back into the world war two archives. And also all of the nice things that I said about the production of the movie kind of go out the window when you see the charred remains of this house the next day, which looks like.

Just a handful of flats that have been kind of cut up a little bit and had black paint sprayed all over him. Oh, God. But anyway, now that she’s

Craig: dead, and I think that he believes that she had nothing to do with it, he’s convinced that it must be Bubba, that he wasn’t really dead, and even though they shot him 27 times, he’s convinced, so he goes and gets the last remaining guy, Skeeter.

And they go to dig him up and this is in the middle of the night. They shot all of the night scenes night for night. And I’m impressed by that because it’s hard and, uh, it looks good. It looks great. Yeah, it looks really good. But so they go and they dig up his grave and you don’t, again, you don’t see anything, but when Skeeter opens it, he’s still in there.

So Skeeter freaks out. And at this point, this is why I felt a little bad for him because he seems very childlike too. He’s very scared and he’s crying and it seems like he never wanted to be messed up in all of this, and he just wants to go to the police and confess.

Todd: Is a bit of a trope in these movies, isn’t it?

There’s always a slower guy who is part of the group, who didn’t quite want to go along with it, but ended up doing it, but is haunted by it a little bit, but will still kind of go along with everything at the end. Until this point where he completely freaks out. I mean, that’s in, uh. I spit on your grave is like that.

I spit on your grave, we just did Last House on the Left, had that in there. Yeah. Um, it’s, it’s not uncommon at all.

Craig: Yeah, so, I mean, he did it, but you kind of feel bad for him, but, and then you also feel bad for him because Otis is obviously manipulating him and gets him to go back to the grave. He’s like, okay, we’ll go to the cops, but first we have to go, And cover up the grave.

We can’t leave it open like that. And so Skeeter gets down in the grave. I mean, I saw it, it was projected. I saw it a mile away. Otis takes the shovel and kills him. I did think it was a like chef’s kiss touch that he hits the guy over the head. And this guy has been wearing a really distinctive hat the whole movie.

Like a red and white polka dot hat that I had noticed every time he was wearing it. And Otis hits him over the head with the shovel and he pulls the shovel back and the hat is stuck to the shovel.

Todd: That was such a smart and clever way of doing the violence and putting a little hint of it in. You know, it’s almost like the blood spray on the walls, but way more sophisticated, you know?

To do this in this TV movie, it was like, they were re He was really trying to find ways to really get the impact across without, you know, while staying within the bounds of the censorship. I was. Really impressed with that bit. And he disdainfully yanks it off and chucks it in there. What a dick, this guy.

He’s terrible. I cannot wait for this man to die.

Craig: And then he drives away and he’s drunk. And he just happens to stumble upon Mary Lee in the middle of the road. And she runs off. And he chases her in the dirt. Post office jeep, and he catches up to her, and she’s in a pumpkin patch.

Todd: There’s a little more Halloween for ya.

And he starts to accuse her. He’s like, I know what you did. And then, a noise fires up behind him, and some lights, and there is a piece of machinery. Now, it’s like a plow with a It’s a

Craig: bulldozer slash Yeah, I don’t think they have these things. It’s like a mullet. It’s like, it’s like bulldozer in the back, or bulldozer in the front, tiller in the back.

Todd: Maybe, maybe I’m ignorant though. Maybe this is something very specific for harvesting pumpkins or something. It seems very practical. I’m not going to go

Craig: on record. I don’t know. But it, it comes on supernaturally, and then it chases it, and it’s also unlike any, I don’t know if bulldozer is the right word, but it’s got, you know, like a scoop.

I don’t know. In the front, but the scoop also has tines, a jaw. It’s like a jaw that closes down, chases them like chomping its jaws. Yeah, I liked it at the same time. You know, I’m like, I don’t know. The guy running, I’m like, turn to

Todd: the right. I don’t know. I think he was drunk and he was scared. This is what I was thinking.

He was drunk and he’s scared. And he does in this pumpkin patch is probably muddy. It’s very, there’s lots of things to trip over. God knows he does. They remind us every other shot that this thing is churning up pumpkins behind it. And I think it’s teasing us. It’s trying to make us think that he’s going to get.

Chomped with this thing and or and or run over by that thing and it’s very smart It’s so much better.

Craig: Yeah, this was great. This was so great It’s chasing him and you’re absolutely positive that’s gonna catch him It’s either gonna catch him in its jaws and then you’re right and then also probably run over him and chop him up But it doesn’t at all.

It’s just chasing him, and he’s looking back at it, and he turns around, and he runs right into the scarecrow.

Todd: Yes, with a pitchfork sticking straight out.

Craig: You don’t know that right away. You know, like, he just runs into it, and they’re face to face, and he looks at it, but then he backs up, and you hear kind of a Squishy sound.

But

Todd: you heard a little bit of that, that sound when he ran into it. I mean, that was the first thing I thought of. I was like, Oh my God. I let out an audible gasp when that happened. A, it was a big surprise. And B, like the poetic justice of it was just on point.

Craig: Yes. Yes. I loved it. I loved it. I wanted him to die so badly.

And I thought that the way that he did was perfect. Face to face. With

Todd: the scarecrow. I loved it. Oh, man. So, it appears that this girl set all this up somehow. And yet, we could see very clearly that the plow went on supernaturally. Yeah. Like, there was a shot of the inside of that. With the thing moving forward.

I read

Craig: that that was not in the original cut. That’s like a really one or one or two second cut that they put in with one of the DVD releases. I read that in the trivia, so I was, I noticed it that you see it. Shit. I wish they had left it out by itself. I know. Shit, I wish they had kept it out. It’s true, but.

How else are you going to explain how these things turned themselves off and on? Like, was there somebody behind the scenes? Was Bubba, like, as a spirit or whatever, actually doing these things? I don’t know. And ultimately, I feel like it doesn’t matter. I was really surprised by the end. And

Todd: yes, yeah,

Craig: really surprised.

I didn’t expect this because the whole movie had made it so ambiguous up until this point. You could walk away thinking it’s kind of a mystery. What really happened, but then the scarecrow,

Todd: the girl loves up. It looks up at the scarecrow and the scarecrow turns its head down with its big open black eyes and mouth.

That was creepy as hell.

Craig: Yes. And it was so creepy. And she says, thank you, Bubba. Tomorrow I’ll teach you a new game. The chasing game. Yes!

Todd: Wow. And she hands it a flower, which it takes, and there’s a freeze frame on that. Wow. I loved it. So, the spirit of the scarecrow, or the spirit of Bubba, or, what is it? I still am not 100 percent certain, and I also think, I It’s possible that you could argue that the girl did this, except for the fact that, you know, we saw that one shot where the thing moved by itself.

I mean, the girl kind of disappears at some point. She could have hopped in the, the plow, you know, and started it up and moved it towards him.

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know.

Todd: Or had an accomplice, you know, I don’t know. Yeah. I mean, it’s not as ambiguous. Could

Craig: be. But that’s the thing, that’s, that’s why I likened it to Pumpkinhead.

Because I do think that it is Bubba, but it’s also, you know, some kind of, like, supernatural vengeance thing, like, he’s there to avenge the real wrong. Bubba was a sweet, kind, gentle person. I don’t think that he wasn’t violent, he didn’t have violent tendencies, so, I mean, you know, it’s a movie, it’s a dumb, it’s a dumb, it’s that same kind of thing.

It’s But ghost stories do that all the

Todd: time, though.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: Yeah. Where this person who was kind of innocent and wrongfully killed, who you wouldn’t imagine could kill anybody else, the spirit of them comes back and exacts like a horrific revenge on everybody else. You know, it doesn’t feel like that person anymore, right?

It feels like Right. Vengeful spirit, you know? Yeah.

Craig: The, yeah. Vengeful spirits all the time. We see it all the time. The, the one that just popped into my mind was Monster House. Oh, right. Yeah. That, that guy’s wife died and she just became a vengeful spirit. Yeah. Anyway, but I, I won’t say that I loved the movie, but I’m glad to have finally seen it.

Like you said, it’s been recommended so many times and I’m, I’m not really sure why I haven’t just watched it before, but I’m glad to finally have. I think it’s definitely 100 percent if you haven’t seen it, it is so worth the watch. So many familiar actors in it. It’s an interesting story and it’s well done.

I don’t think it’s great. I don’t think it’s a masterpiece. It’s not going to become like a Halloween tradition for me, but it was fun to see it for the first time. I can’t say it wasn’t a good time. It was a good time.

Todd: In many ways. It’s a very typical story. Like there’s nothing. Particularly different, you know, this is like a whole class of movies, like you said earlier, like, it’s a Tales from the Crypt kind of movie, it’s like a Twilight Zone kind of movie, it’s frickin House on Sorority Row, or Killing Mrs.

Tingle, or like, whatever, you know, where, where somebody gets killed. And the other people either get away with it, or cover it up, or don’t talk about it. And then, slowly but surely, this vengeful spirit or whatever, that’s a big mystery, is coming back to take its vengeance on each and every one of them until they’re all gone.

In that respect, it’s it’s nothing new, but I just thought it had elements in there that elevated it a little bit. I thought that it really tugged at the heartstrings more than I expected to. I really like that ambiguity of it up to the very end. I thought that the fact that the Scarecrow moved his head I mean, you know, we never saw the Scarecrow move.

We didn’t see, like, a trail of straw. You know, there was none, there were none of these things to hint that the Scarecrow was anything but just a thing that somebody could have propped up in any one of their yards and taken away or whatnot, who just kind of knew what was going on. And so, that really caught me off guard, and that was really eerie, that image of that scarecrow just suddenly turning down.

So, it just had these bits in it that really elevated it for me. But, because it’s this kind of movie, because so much of the movie hinges on, it’s really just this drama as to how is this unfolding and what is the mystery. Once you’ve seen it once, there aren’t a lot of compelling reasons to see it again, maybe.

Unless you’re showing it to somebody else, you know? It’s just not Emotionally, it’s not gonna be quite the same, so. Yeah. Oh, I totally recommend it, just like you. Love the movie. Perfect for Halloween. Absolutely perfect. Yes, yeah, great. You know what I learned, just kind of random fact, is that, uh, Oh, do you know Simon Barrett?

He’s a screenwriter. He, uh, He worked on the new Blair Witch, the Blair Witch, what do you call it, remake that came out or whatever, and he, He’s a co writer or writer of a lot of stuff like that Adam Wingard and Ty West do. He wrote You’re Next, He wrote a lot of the VHS series, and he wrote The Guest. Some of these movies we’ve really, really loved, and he was the screenplay and story guy for Godzilla vs.

King Kong, The New Empire, that just came out. He went on record saying that this is one of his two absolute favorite Halloween movies, and that it’s a shame that more people haven’t heard of it, more people haven’t seen it, because he just finds them really unique, and Stand out for like, you know, television movies.

They’re just a little more weird. He says, I just want to quote this. There was a streak where TV movies were kind of dangerous. After Spielberg did Duel, Don’t Go to Sleep is a ghost story with a little girl ghost. Dark Knight of the Scarecrow is like a creepy Scarecrow revenge movie, kind of a weird of mice and men, but with a scary supernatural Scarecrow.

They’re both really creepy and unnerving, and they are my go to creepy, spooky Halloween movies. I I so feel that, like, I

Craig: loved TV movies! They were events! Back in the day, you know, there would be tons of buildup, tons of advertising. And then I know we’ve talked about this before, but you would watch them and they were episodic.

You know, it would be over like four nights or something. And sometimes you would watch two hours, four nights in a row. Yeah. You would really invest in them, and then you would talk about them with people the next day.

Todd: Yeah, you’d have to wait for the next episode, right? You couldn’t just binge it all at once.

And we all knew they were gonna be a little tamer than the movies we saw. We all knew that the production value would be a bit lower and stuff, but then it came along and proved to all of us that holy shit, TV movies could actually be pretty scary.

Craig: There have been other ones. There were so many. There were Stephen King ones.

They did The Shining. There was, uh, Rose Red. Rose Red? Is that what that was called? That was a good one. There was one about a hospital

Todd: starring Andrew McCarthy. Some of those that you rattle off, those were later, you know what I mean? Those were later television I’m thinking like 70s and 80s, you know, when we were growing up.

But this is one of them. We never gave them enough credit for going that far, you know, as movies could go. So they were always sort of second fiddle. In my mind. And yet, we’ve already talked about several TV movies that scared the heck out of us. I mean, The Salem’s Lot was one when I was a kid anyway that scared me.

It, you know, we revisited It, and we were like, okay, it doesn’t really hold up as well as our memories did, but all of us, adults and kids alone, at the time, were freaking out over that movie. And it’s still, it’s still unsettling. Put this one in there, yeah. Other movies we’ve seen might as well have been kids TV movies, right?

I think The Lady in White was one of them.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: You know, a lot of them we said, you know, this almost plays out like a TV movie. It just wasn’t. Yeah, it’s worth

Craig: it. Don’t let the fact that it’s a TV movie turn you off. In fact, I think it’s really interesting to watch these kind of movies and see how they can still tell a really good story.

And a scary story. I wasn’t scared by it, but it’s a scary story without all the violence and gore. It can be done. There are some people who are turned away from horror because they don’t like all of the violence and gore. It’s not like they don’t like a suspenseful story. They just don’t have the stomach for all of that.

And this would be something that would be great for somebody like that. Yeah. You want to watch a Halloween movie cause it’s the spooky season. You want to watch something spooky, but you don’t want a lot of blood and violence and gore. This is great. I recommend it a hundred percent.

Todd: Same here. Well, thank you so much for listening to another episode.

If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. Here we are at Halloween season, why don’t you go to our website, or one of our, like our Facebook page, our Instagram, post up there what your favorite Halloween movies are and we can chat there. We’re certainly having these conversations back with the patrons at patreon.

com slash Chainsaw Horror. If you’d like to support the podcast, please go over there, consider signing up and becoming a member, the crew, and get access to all kinds of great features, minisows, we’re gonna have a couple Halloween minisows this month, you’re gonna love those. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig.

With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          Spooky Season 2024 has arrived! We kick off our annual Halloween series with a kid-friendly horror flick that the whole family can enjoy, based on R.L. Stine’s kid-friendly Goosebumps series of horror novels from the 90’s.

Did you know that R.L. Stine has sold more books than Stephen King? That’s a cool tidbit we learned from the mouth of the author himself (as played by Jack Black, of course). The movie cleverly avoids the tricky task of which of Stine’s 63+ Goosebumps books to adapt by just throwing the whole lot into one movie.

How will these kids team up with the prolific author to put back all the monsters they’ve unleashed from his books? Watch the movie to find out, then listen in and see if you agree with our assessment of it.

Stay tuned for more Halloween thrills to come!

Jack Black, left, and R.L. Stine on the set of Columbia Pictures’ “Goosebumps.”Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptGoosebumps (2015)Episode 409, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, the Halloween season is upon us.

Craig: It’s so exciting. Oh my god. I love it so much.

Todd: At times like this, I I wish I were back in America every single time, just for this one month, if I could just, uh, have Halloween.

Craig: I know, you say for just this one month, but honestly, Todd, I don’t know why it is, but Halloween is having like a moment, and People are getting so into it that it’s starting in like late August.

Oh my God. Like people, people are getting so excited for spooky season so early. And then like by the very beginning of September streaming services were already featuring like their spooky stuff and their horror stuff. And it’s brilliant. You’re trying to depress me, aren’t you? I’m not trying to depress you, I just want you to know how happy it makes me.

Oh god. Oh god. You know, I’ve got all the fall stuff out in my house, and it’s my favorite time of the year.

Todd: Is

Craig: Spirit

Todd: Halloween already open in a bunch of places?

Craig: I don’t know. I’m not, you know, my town’s not big enough for a Spirit Halloween, so I don’t know

Todd: about that. You get to trip down the road a little bit.

Yeah. Also, Spirit Halloween always feels to me like a little bit of a cop out. Like, we didn’t have that growing up, right? There was no big, giant Halloween store that would pop up around the country when we were kids. No. You had to go to the mall and go to the Walmart or whatever.

Craig: Well, sometimes.

Sometimes. Something would pop up in one of those empty spaces in the mall, like, just Rare. Around Halloween, and it would be exclusively, like, costumes and stuff like that, but Yeah. Not all the time. I’ve never been to a Spirit Halloween. I don’t have any idea what they, like, are like on the inside. I, the, I know what the logo looks like.

I know what it looks like slapped on a big abandoned warehouse, but

Todd: Right. I’ve never been in one. It’s an interesting business model, that, that place. I didn’t even get it, you know, like, how do these just happen? You know, when I first saw them, I thought they were some one guy’s kind of, like, thing that he just did in this one place, and then I noticed, you know, oh, other towns had them too, and then I realized it’s this big intranational thing, and it’s this whole business, and it’s so cyclical, and it’s so weird how they just find places to pop up that are empty.

And the last time I was back for Halloween, which was two years ago, I guess? I went to one of these places with Kenshi, and I was kind of blown away. I was like, man, their selection has grown. Like, they have things that they clearly have made specifically for them, exclusive to them. Animatronics that you can, like, put in your yard and at your house and on your door and I mean it’s kind of elaborate.

I was impressed, but all that shit just sounds expensive to me. When I was a kid, we made our own stuff.

Craig: You know? And then what do you do with it for the rest of the year? Like, um, Home Depot is selling those enormous skeletons. Which are great, and I think they’re, you know, fun. But they’re like, 20 feet tall or something.

Like, where do you put that for the rest of the year? I know, right? Gosh, I don’t know. One might think that we were talking about the movie Spirit Halloween, but we’re not. Thank God. I heard it’s bad. I heard it’s bad too, I haven’t seen it. We’ll cover one of these years. I was really surprised you didn’t put it on the list.

I thought for sure you would, but Eh, let’s get these other ones out of the way first, shall we? Well, I think that the ones that you picked Are really good if we stick to the plan, I think all but one of the ones that we have planned are family friendly movies. Yeah. And I love that. Yeah. I love that so much.

I, you know, I think it’s gosh, you know, I don’t have kids of my own. I’ve got nieces and nephews and like my cousins have kids that call me uncle and stuff. But I think what a better way to spend if you’re a big fan of that, like if you’re a grownup. And you’re a big fan of the holiday season, what better way to celebrate it than to share it with your family, your kids, young people in your life.

These movies are going to be a lot of fun to talk about.

Todd: Well, and we talk about these kind of movies as gateway horror, you know, family friendly, kid friendly movies that are still scary enough, but not really, that you can watch with a younger child as well, but an older child and adult will enjoy it as well.

I think of Halloween as sort of a gateway horror holiday anyway, you know? Yeah, yeah. It’s probably, I would imagine, where I, if not many of us, picked up our love for horror, the horror genre in general. No, at least in part, sure. Yeah, I mean, that’s what got me into spooky stuff, you know? That’s what got me into spooky music, and movies, and books, and all that.

I would say, probably, at least, like you said, a very large contributor to it. And nowadays, Halloween is springing up around the world like it wasn’t even 10, 20 years ago. I don’t know if I mentioned this before, but I could say from experience that when I was living and teaching in Japan in the early 2000s, 2001 to 2004, I was introducing Halloween to my students.

Mm. I did a big unit during October where we would talk about Halloween traditions in America, and I would dress up, you know, for that last week, and I would encourage the kids to dress up, and our English club, we would have Halloween parties, and I’d organize, like, bobbing for apples and other disgusting stuff like that.

And now, the last time I went to Japan in October, which was just a couple years ago, it’s a thing there. They’re almost as big on Halloween as we are in the States now. You did it. I saw Halloween every Yeah, it was me! I planted the seed. You’re all welcome. And it grew! Mission accomplished. Yay me. So yeah, so I, I feel like even our international listeners, if, if by now have probably know a lot more about the Halloween holiday than they would have 10, 20 years ago and can probably relate to some of these movies because some of the movies we’ve picked are very Halloween specific.

This one is not. This one is the 2015 film Goosebumps based on the Goosebumps series of books. It’s so funny because we’ve been talking about Christopher Pike a lot because we do, we have this ongoing Christopher Pike book club now since we did the Midnight Club and all that. Um, we did at least one or two minisodes about some Christopher Pike related stuff for our patrons and uh, so I’m really in that mind space.

Like you and I are now reading a Christopher Pike book like all the time now. We’re on what? Yeah. The sixth or seventh one I think?

Craig: I have no idea. A lot. We tried to figure this out yesterday. We were thinking more like nine or ten. I think you’re

Todd: right. I think you’re right. But like, that’s in my headspace now, recently, and it kind of brings me back to when I was an adolescent.

And I, Chris, R. L. Stine, and the Goosebumps were just a little too young for me when they came out. But I just remember at the time thinking of them as, Oh, this is like the Christopher Pike for the young kids. So, I never read a single Goosebumps book, but they were HUGE! Like, absolutely huge. And my understanding is they were huge around the world, they were translated into like 35 different languages.

I’ve talked to people I know from other countries who’ve said, Oh yeah, I read some of those books when I was growing up too. So, uh, major international phenomenon. I was surprised to learn, uh, the second best book serie uh, selling book series of all time. After Harry Potter? Yeah. Crazy. Wow. 400 or 450 million copies sold around the world and counting, and Harry Potter’s up to 600 million.

It’s just

Craig: nuts. Jack Black, who plays R. L. Stine in the movie, says something really early on.

Clip: You’re him,

Craig: aren’t you?

Clip: You’re R. L. Stine. R. L. who? I don’t know who that is. Oh, really? Well, just as well, because his books suck. What are you doing? I can’t decide which one I hate. Or, go eat worms. I’m so confused. You see the endings coming from a mile away.

It’s like, stop trying to be Stephen King, man.

Let me tell you something about Steve King. Steve King wishes he could write like me. And I’ve sold way more books than him, but nobody ever talks about that! Okay. WAY MORE BOOKS!

Craig: And I thought, that can’t be true. So I immediately looked it up and it is. What? That’s crazy. By a margin of like a hundred million.

Yeah, it blew, it blew my mind. But then I thought about it and I thought, wait a second. Stephen King, as prolific as he is, and he’s very prolific putting out like a book a year. I don’t know. Cause I didn’t follow the Goosebumps thing either. We had book club yesterday and we talked about this and they were all shocked.

You know, they’re all. One of them is, is exactly my age and the rest of them are about five years younger than me. So I think that it just, we, you and I just missed it. Like it was just too young for us. Just barely. So anybody even some, some people even just like five years younger than us who are into the same types of things that we were like, this was touchstone for them.

And they were shocked, shocked that I had never, Read a single rl stein book either you too, huh? Yeah, yeah, not a single one and I do I remember overlooking them because I read mostly steven king or excuse me Mostly christopher pike, but not exclusively there were some other adolescent teen Authors that I read occasionally, but I always looked at the goosebumps books and even just the way that they were published They were They looked like kids books.

They were made like kids books. They weren’t your standard novel size. They were, they were larger and the print was larger. They were shorter for sure. They were shorter. And the, the artwork on the front, what I really enjoyed it. I looked at it cause it was fun to look at, but. It looked more like it was for kids, and the subject matter looked more like it was for kids, like the blob that ate everyone, and Yeah.

Yeah, the titles sounded like they were meant for younger kids. Ultimately, I’m a little disappointed that I didn’t pick them up back then, because I think that I probably would have been pleasantly surprised, but Anyway, coming into this movie, I had seen it before. I didn’t realize how old it was. Gosh, time goes by so quickly when you’re an adult.

It’s true. I would have told you probably this movie came out four or five years ago. Yeah. It’s been almost ten years, so I had forgotten about that. But I know that I had seen it before, but I remembered nothing about it. And I always think, like, that can’t be a good sign. Like, if you saw it and you remember nothing about it, that can’t be a good sign.

But I was watching it yesterday. And I was, I really enjoyed it. Like, it’s not specifically centered around Halloween, but it feels like such, it feels like a Halloween movie. Ironically enough, there’s a sequel to it that is about Halloween. Like Halloween is in the title, but I don’t know anything about it, whether it’s good or not.

But I sat and watched this and I really liked it and it felt more like. Kids horror movies from when we were younger that they don’t really make it was still anymore

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: it was still maybe a little bit tamer, but it felt like the monster squad or yeah

Todd: Where kids are battling against monsters? Yeah that are in their neighborhood,

Craig: right and like action action heavy and Not terribly scary, but no a suspect like like it kept you on your edge of the seat Your seat and like the action sequences and stuff and it’s, it’s, it is action heavy with like car chases and big monsters, you know, running around, destroying the town and like, like a whole horde of months, like there’s a lot going on in this movie.

Todd: It’s, it’s got a madcap pace that kind of just never stops, but also it’s very inoffensive. Y’know, nobody dies, you never feel like anyone’s ever going to die or be hurt in any way, like, Y’know, it just has that tone of, Alright, this is like a, quote unquote, safe kid’s movie. Right. Y’know, my seven year old son might be scared by a few things in here, but not because there are horrible things happening, just because the monsters might be a little scary and he’ll think about them later, y’know?

Craig: Look a little scary, sure. Yeah,

Todd: yeah.

Craig: But I was also thinking, I, I, I wonder, I can only imagine that if you were a fan of the books, that this would be just glorious, like, because it references a countless number of, of his books. And, and I read that people had been interested in Anne R. L. Stine movie for a long time, but I think R.

L. Stine said, like, there were so many books that they didn’t know where to start or which one to choose. And at different. points in time different projects were being talked about like at one point Tim Burton was Toying with doing something with RL Stein George Romero wrote a script. Yeah For an adaptation of one of his books.

Can you imagine? I know

Todd: right

Craig: what of

Todd: course it was one that involves zombies I read a little synopsis of what it was supposed to be It was like the first one, Welcome to the Dead House or something, which involves zombies, I suppose. And George Romero wrote this thing where, yeah, eventually the neighborhood’s gonna be taken over by zombies and whatnot.

That would be interesting to see him doing a children’s movie like that. Did he ever do a children’s movie? I Somewhere in my head I think we did something childlike, but I don’t remember. I don’t know. Part of the genius, I guess, of this movie is that it takes the same approach that the Alone in the Dark movie did.

In that it’s not about any one book, and so it’s basically about the fictionalized other book. R. L. Stine and him writing these books, and in this world, his books are dangerous, you know, the books themselves. It’s

Craig: brilliant. Yeah. It’s a brilliant conceit, I love it. Well, we should, we should talk about it when we get Yeah,

Todd: but yeah, so that’s why this book, this, this movie had, took so long to come out, is because they, everybody was fretting over which book to do, and none of them could really agree or figure out a good story for a full length movie based on it.

Any one of these short books. So yeah, I like that aspect to it too. I think Jack Black is always fun and great in the stuff he’s in. And like you, uh, well, unlike you, I’d never seen this movie before. But, uh, like you, I jumped into it knowing full, full well what it was. I was not disappointed by it. And I was kind of along for the ride.

And not at all scared ever, but uh, enjoying myself nonetheless and, and what better movie to put you in the Halloween spirit, you know, than something like this.

Craig: And it’s fun and funny and, and it’s shot well. One of my only complaints, and it’s like, I don’t know, who cares? The CGI is a little iffy in places.

It’s a little dated. Yeah. And it’s, uh, It’s pretty CG, it’s CGI heavy. So that was a little disappointing, but get over it. Like, okay, great. It doesn’t look that great, but just enjoy it for what it is. Hey, if

Todd: we can handle choppy stop motion animation from an earlier day and, uh, you know, grubby prosthetic effects and things like that, this, uh, we can handle crummy CGI, I suppose.

Less than perfect CGI. Let’s put it that way.

Craig: Yeah. It’s pretty to look at and it’s got. Really good people in it people that you will recognize not necessarily like huge a list stars But I recognize so many people in this movie and it’s funny So it’s got a lot going for it out of the gate. It’s this story about okay, so it starts out I don’t know If now we have to say every aerial shot of a car driving down a road is an homage to the shining.

I have no idea, but that’s how it starts. An aerial shot of a car driving into this small town. So typical, dragging a U Haul, classic horror movie setup. Exactly. Oh, we’re, we’re moving to a new place, right? Okay, great. So it’s, it’s Zach played by Dylan Minnette, who was in, I think he’s most famous for like the 13 reasons why series, which I haven’t seen, but he was also in one of the new screams that I’m.

I think you and I talked about, I don’t remember, and his mom, single mom, I don’t know if they, did the dad die? I don’t remember. I think

Todd: that, I mean, we never get it clearly said to us, but, uh, it seems like he did. The way that they’re kind of like, uh, staring at his picture, and his son is looking at old videos of him, it seems more like he died rather than he left.

Craig: Yeah, single mom Gail, played by Amy Ryan, who was great in The Office, and she was also in Only Murders in the Building. She’s so funny. She doesn’t have a huge role here, but I just, I’m a big fan of hers. So, they move into this big house in this little small town, and it’s, it looks, you know, like Grover’s Corners, like, you know, like, every, every back lot, small town set you’ve ever seen.

Todd: By the way, it, it’s, uh, Did it strike you that this beautiful house on this street was impossibly large for these two people? I mean,

Craig: Oh, it’s always that always like that, right? I mean, it’s huge houses.

Todd: You’re a school teacher. Do you think that an assistant principal at the local public school would be able to afford

Craig: like this?

Oh, gosh, no, no, especially now like that house would be over a million dollars. Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay, so it bit right away. Zach sees The somebody next door, like, like close the blinds really fast or something. And then he meets the guy next door, Jack Black, who introduces himself as Mr. Shivers, but he’s R.

L. Stein. And there’s an Aunt Lorraine who is played by Jillian Bell, who I recognized just last year. There was, I think it was just last year. There was a new Christmas movie starring Eddie Murphy called Candy Cane Lane, and she’s the funny antagonist in it. And that’s a really cute movie. If you haven’t seen it, you should watch it this Christmas time.

We also meet a young girl, you know, apparently Zach’s age. Hannah, played by Odeya York, I didn’t really recognize her from anything, but there’s obviously a connection between these young people right away and they’re gonna be little cute love interests or whatever. But R. L. Stein warns Zach.

Clip: Do you see the fence?

I, yes. Stay on your side of it. You stay away from my daughter. You stay away from me. And we won’t have a problem.

Craig: Yes. Multiple times. If I’m being totally honest, I’m a big Jack Black fan. I think that he’s a hilarious actor and he seems to be a really cool, genuinely good guy in real life. I just wasn’t feeling his choices in this movie.

And that’s just a personal opinion. I read somewhere that Jim Carrey was a At one point in time considered for the role. I’m not as big a fan of Jim Carrey as I am of Jack Black, but R. L. Stein, the actual man makes a cameo in the end of this movie. And he, Jim Carrey would have Jim Carrey looks like he would have kind of nailed it.

Todd: The best that Jack Black can do is some dark, uh, glasses. Some dark rimmed glasses. And he’s affecting what he said was more of an Orson Welles type of approach. And it, I mean it does. He sounds like he’s affecting a kind of Orson Welles accent. And it’s fine. I mean, but you’re right. It’s nothing special, I guess.

It’s not Particularly endearing or funny. It’s just kind of vanilla. I don’t know. What can you say about it? Yeah.

Craig: Yeah, I mean he made a choice and that’s fine. It’s just I didn’t particularly care for it but and then there’s also You know the mom is the vice principal at the school and the son goes to school and like meets people and stuff and he meets this Dorky kid named champ who’s played by this kid Named Ryan Lee, who was doing a lot of work at this time and just before he was in a hilarious TV show with Malin Ackerman called Trophy Wife, which got canceled after one season.

And I was so mad because it was hilarious. Bradley Whitford was in it. Gosh, some other really good people were in it. That was so funny. Alan and I liked it so much and it got canceled. He was in that and he was doing a lot of other work as a kid. I don’t know if he’s still doing a lot of work now, but he’s really funny.

He’s so

Todd: funny. He was in Black Friday, which was one of our holiday picks. Was it last year or the year before? Yeah. Yeah. He played one of the. One of the employees in the store. Yeah, whatever it was.

Craig: So I guess what Zach and Hannah though They’ve been forbidden to see each other immediately see each other Yeah, you know, she doesn’t go to school with them and she’s like what’s high school really like or something and he’s like What do you mean?

She’s like, well, I’m homeschooled. Okay, whatever but she’s like, come on Let me show you something and they go out into the woods behind their house Behind their house, I guess, which like overlooks the whole town. Like it’s gorgeous. And there’s an abandoned carnival out there and it’s apparently been abandoned for a long time.

He’s like, Whoa, you know, what’s this place? And she’s like, Oh, they built it a long time ago, but then they ran out of money, but then she goes on to like flip a switch on a generator and like the whole place lights up,

Todd: the whole thing. As improbable as, uh, this little abandoned carnival in the middle of the woods right behind their house with a giant Ferris wheel that goes up above the tall treetops and this cool looking farmhouse. And

Craig: it’s like her secret place. Yeah,

Todd: right? Like, uh, as cool as that is, as unlikely as that was.

I would have loved to have that to explore as a kid.

Craig: Oh my gosh. It’s an amazing set piece. Like there’s like a fun house and it’s really fun. And for a movie like this, it’s a great set piece and they return to it later, but they have a cute little moment or whatever. And I don’t really remember. So I guess when they come home.

They get caught? Is that what happens? No, when

Todd: they come home, she just goes into her house, he’s sleeping, and uh, he wakes up to hear arguing across the way. And when he looks out the window, he sees the shadow of her and her dad, R. L. Stine, and she screams. And he panics, he thinks that maybe she’s in trouble, and he runs over there and bangs on the door.

Doesn’t really get a response, gets and then ends up calling the cops.

Craig: Yeah, and these dumb, dumb cops come over. Oh

Todd: my god, the cop thing was so stupid. Like, look, I don’t have high expectations for the, you know, this movie being particularly clever, witty, or realistic. I know they’re throwing in a lot of slapstick and a lot of these jokes, and it’s a it’s a very kid type humor with a lot of this stuff.

But those cops were just Almost offensively dumb. I mean, come on. One of them is so stupid. The guy opens the door and she whips her gun out and says, Freeze! And the other cop’s like, Calm down, calm down. I’m sorry. She’s our cop in training right now. No, we don’t need guns at this point, ma’am. Like, oh my god.

Craig: And the kid says he heard a scream and Jack Black shows them a TV with like, I don’t know, like he’s watching a horror movie and a girl screams. I don’t know if one of them says, why is it so loud? And he says, Freeze! I’m sorry, is it against the law to be an audio file? And she like freaks out and rips out her gun.

Oh, what a file. Like he insulted her. No, like she, like she thought he had a file. Yeah. Like she didn’t know what the word meant. Right. Cause she’s a dummy. Like that’s the whole gag. She’s a big dumb dummy.

Todd: Not only a big dumb dummy, but a big dumb dummy who just is gonna whip out her gun at every small infraction.

Yeah.

Craig: Oh boy, oh boy. So stupid. But he says Hannah’s not even there. He says she flew back to London.

Todd: He said that she’s visiting him, like, because she’s on holiday from her mother.

Craig: Her mother’s getting remarried or something? I don’t know. So he says she’s gone. The cops leave. But then, Zach sees him arguing with somebody again in there.

So, he’s like, He, he calls champ over and, and lies and says, they’re going to go to the dance. By the way, this is the night of the dance. That’s so funny. Right?

Todd: Cause like they’re making this big deal about the dance and Zach has no indication of he’s going to go to this dance at all. No. Well, I mean, they just got there.

He doesn’t know what he, I don’t know. But his mom’s got to go there and like chaperone the thing. There’s like no mention made of it, except that she says to somebody, well, I gotta go chaperone the dance now. Also, Are they having

Craig: a dance on like the first weekend of school? Like, didn’t school just start?

I think so, yeah. Like the first night.

Back to school dance. It’s formal. That good old fall

Todd: dance that

Craig: gets earlier and earlier every year. So he calls champ over to, and says like, I’ve got a couple of girls and we’ll go to the dance. So champ, champ comes over in a full suit. Like, and so he’s wearing this suit and he’s such a goofy looking kid anyway.

So then to put him in a full suit for the whole movie, it’s, it’s. It’s pretty hilarious, but they set it up that I guess Zach set it up. He called R. L. Stein’s house and claimed to be the police and said he needed to come down to the station. And then he and champ break in through the cellar. Where there are bear traps?

Lots of bear traps. Down there,

Todd: yeah. I’m

Craig: not exactly sure why.

Todd: I think by the end of the movie it might be, that might be why. Like their protection for him, not, not about people coming in, but about things getting out. Also, who would do that? You know how dangerous those bear traps are? Right. Yeah, you’ll shatter your leg and permanently injure yourself break your leg to come downstairs and but yeah He makes his way through the bear traps and I’m sure I am sure there are tons of little Easter eggs down there with all The detritus that’s sitting around.

I know there’s a cuckoo clock that pops out at him that references one of our L Sine stories and whatnot, but they make it through the basement they come up into the house now It’s really funny to me that The conceit here is that R. L. Stine and his daughter there move around a lot, like every few years or every couple years or something like that.

Like, they’re always on the move. But when you look at this house, it looks like they are set up and have been living in there for centuries. Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah. It’s got all this antique y furniture in there. It’s your classic, almost like a spooky mansion type set up with things. Yeah. Including, what they come across is a bookshelf that lights up and is filled with manuscripts.

Bound manuscripts, all of them with the same just plain black cover and taped on the side. And

Craig: handwritten titles.

Todd: Yeah, there’s a lot of care put into these books, including having his name stamped at the bottom of every one. R. L. Stine. But when it came down to the title, he had to hand write it on and And they’re all locked.

These are all Goosebumps manuscripts. What’s he doing

Clip: with a bunch

Todd: of kids books? But,

Clip: but, these aren’t kids books. Okay, kids books help you fall asleep. These books keep you up all night. Okay. Carl Stein, whatever happened to that guy?

Craig: That’s a good question. Like, is, is he still writing? Do you know?

Todd: Yeah, he’s still writing.

He’s still doing, he’s been a writer since forever. Even before the Goosebumps. You know, the Goosebumps books, because I was very curious about this. He was almost 50. When he started writing the Goosebumps books and then he he pumped out like 63 of them and plus some spin off series and you know normally Writers who do this kind of thing, like even the big writers, will have ghost writers.

The Nancy Drew and Hardy Boy books were written by so many different people just under one pen name. But R. L. Stine literally sat down and wrote every single one of these books. He’s super prolific. And before he started writing the Goosebumps books, he was writing for television, he Do you remember a Nickelodeon show called Eureka’s Castle?

Vaguely, I don’t think I watched it, but the name sounds familiar. The late 80s and stuff. He created that show, and uh, wrote most of the material for it, and was writing Humor. Books for kids, and, and, always kids stuff, it seems like. He got into writing these Goosebumps things at the request of a publisher who I think wanted to start this series, and, uh, that just really, really took off.

65 books, I mean, can you imagine? Now, the guy apparently was at his height here at this era, and this would have been from the 92 to 90. I mean, this was right when we were in high school, and I think that’s why it just kind of bypassed us, but it’s like 92 to 95 or 96 at his height. He was making 40 million a year.

Craig: Oh my gosh.

Todd: You believe it?

Craig: He’s so widely known, and his properties are used all the time, like, Netflix is still doing those Fear Street movies. There’s a new one coming out soon, I think. Is there

Todd: really?

Craig: I’m happy to hear that, because I liked the first three. I really did. Yeah, I’m pretty sure. But yeah, so there’s all these books, and they’re all locked.

But there’s a key in, under a bell jar, just in plain sight, like, lock that up, bro!

It’s so dumb. So they get it out. And they pop open one of the books and it like falls to the floor and then Hannah appears and she’s like, what are you doing here? And they’re like, we thought you were in trouble and I don’t know. And she’s like, you didn’t open a book, did you? And he’s like, yeah, but it’s fine.

And he picks it up and it starts to like match. I really liked this sequence. Like the, the letters start to like bleed off of the page into the air. And then they are kind of like smoke. And it was awesome. They start to fall. Yeah, it was really cool. And it eventually forms the Abominable Snowman because that’s the book that they opened and it’s not great CGI.

I mean, It looks fine, but it looks, it doesn’t look like a real thing in the

Todd: room. I know what you mean. It’s early CGI, earlier CGI. It’s not that early. It’s 2015 for God’s sakes, but it’s still not, I read that this was Sony picture animations, first film that wasn’t an animated film, correct? So I assume that their animated film division did a lot of this.

And so I assume that they didn’t have. As much experience with doing something that was a mix. Yeah. So probably getting that mix of live action animation right, it probably was a little, a bit of an earlier effort for them.

Craig: Well, and maybe it was a choice. Maybe it was a choice to make it a little bit more cartoony.

Maybe if it had been too real, it wouldn’t have been. Well, that’s true. For kids. Yeah. I don’t know. Whatever. It’s an Abominable Snowman. Okay. So, you know, it. I don’t know, what, chases them and stuff? And then it busts out of the house, like it busts like the whole side, the whole side out of the house. And then Jack Black comes back, he’s like, See, I told you something bad would happen!

Todd: Well, I just think it’s funny because the minute they leave the house and they go to, I guess, I guess they follow the path of destruction or something. It’s just so hilarious because it’s the middle of the night. So of course they, you know, they want to situate at night cause it’s more fun. And I guess the whole neighborhood, they’re just very, very heavy sleepers because this abominable snowman has apparently stomped through the whole neighborhood, led a path of cars with their alarms going off.

Nobody ever pops out of a house to see what’s going on and leads them somehow to the ice rink. Of course the Abominable Snowman is gonna make a beeline for the ice rink, right? Yeah. And the minute they pop into this old ice rink, I’m thinking, Oh, this is cute. So I wonder, how many different little set pieces are we gonna have around town?

You know? Is there gonna be the arcade? A lot. Is there gonna be, obviously we’re gonna be at the school at some point. We gotta end up at the carnival, probably at the end. And so I, just in my head, I was kinda checking off the boxes of all the different places they could go. And by golly, they hit almost all of them.

Ha ha ha ha! But it’s at the ice rink and so she opens the book and she gets close enough to it The whole movie feels like one big chase sequence after a while. Yeah, it does but it’s fun. It is exciting Yeah This is the beginning of it and so she sucks the ends up they end up together getting that thing sucked back into the book Because Jack Black shows up

Craig: right?

Yeah, he’s there with them. He drove them there. I think But that’s, that’s the setup is that I guess if you get, it’s like Ghostbusters, like you get close enough to him and you open up the book and it’ll like suck them back in before they leave the house, Jack Black monologues about what happened, like when he was a kid, he was lonely and he didn’t have any friends.

And so he had to invent his own friends and, and he invented these monsters and he wrote about them and then. They came to life

Todd: because his imagination was just so vivid. It’s a real ego stroke for R. L. Stine. Let’s put it that way.

Craig: Well, it’s better than the real story. Well, one day I was approached by a publisher.

I suppose so. But he has to keep them, he has to keep them locked in the books, that’s the only way to be safe, they have to stay locked in the books. And also before they leave, you see another book just pop open, I’m not really sure why that is. Yeah. But another book just pops open, so. That seemed

Todd: Like, cheating.

I didn’t get that at all. If they were all locked by the key, and the key was keeping them safe, and he screwed up by unlocking the book, why does this one book, that just because it fell on the floor, gets to pop open on its own later? But they all kinda do, I guess, don’t they? It’s not the only one.

Craig: Well, no, because I feel I don’t remember when it happens, but you see, when that book opens up, it’s Night of the Living Dummy.

So, Slappy, the ventriloquist dummy, Is out like I feel like slappy’s doing his own thing back at the house Like he burns his own book and he’s like talking to He says i don’t papa. He calls rl stein papa He’s like papa all of your children are coming out to play and he takes all the books and I think He opens them.

Yeah, I think you’re right. It’s a little tenuous. I think he opens some of them, but then there’s also a big reveal at the, like, not a reveal, but there’s a big moment at the end where they open all of them. So some monsters come

Todd: out first. Yeah, I guess you’re right. Well, he takes all the books and he ends up driving off.

We don’t get to see how the dummy drives the car, but, you know, he’s magical. He gets he can do what he wants. He drives off and leaves them to come home. And when they all get back, they find that the books are open and something’s burned. He’s like, oh no, this is my biggest, uh, Basically, I think that Night of the Living Dummy was one of the most notorious of his books, right?

It’s one of the most recognizable characters and covers.

Craig: I think in large part because of the TV show. I think that And I may be wrong because I didn’t watch the TV show either, but I think that Slappy was a big part of the TV show. I think, I could be making that up. But yeah, I think it’s one of his most iconic ones.

Yeah. I can picture clearly the book cover, that character is, and I think that it’s an iconic character for a certain generation. I think that Well, you know, ventriloquist dummies, this isn’t new. That’s the thing, like, his books aren’t particularly novel, for lack of a better word. Like, they, immediately when they get back, they get attacked by garden gnomes.

At some point, there’s a blob, like literally the blob.

Todd: It’s

Craig: literally

Todd: pink and big and

Craig: veiny, just like the blob is,

Todd: yeah.

Craig: And I just remember seeing Seeing those book covers and I remember seeing all of these specific ones. I remember seeing the the lawn gnomes the The giant praying mantis the man eating plants and yeah, the venus fly traps that are the venus fly traps I remember seeing those and just thinking Oh, that’s cute.

Like, like that’s taming down horror for, for kids. Yeah. But I didn’t feel like it was for me. But it is cute. And like, the aliens that freeze the cops, you know, like there’s these aliens walking, they, they kind of look like, kind of, not really, kind of like the Mars attacks aliens running around, like freezing people in the street and stuff.

All of this is. It’s cute. It’s cute, but it’s also super fun. Like, I don’t want to make it sound like it’s stupid because I didn’t find it stupid at all. I was really into it. I’m like, this is fun. Well,

Todd: I mean, I think, you know, what you and I are kind of talking about, it’s probably why we didn’t pick up the books in the first place.

It’s because we looked at them. We’re like, yeah, that’s cute. But you know, I’m just like, I’m not going to pick up a kid’s book about Frankenstein’s monster or a mummy. I’m Probably going to give these a pass, but when you throw them all together in this movie, like you said, like the monster squad or whatever, it becomes kind of fun.

It’s, I’ve heard this movie described as sort of a cabin in the woods for kids.

Craig: Yeah, yeah, sure.

Todd: All the monsters of all different kinds have been released and they’re wreaking havoc and it’s, that’s fun. I really actually, I really like this garden dome sequence. I thought it was one of the most clever sequences in the whole movie.

Because, you know, these garden gnomes are made out of, you know, they’re ceramic and they’re hollow and so there’s all this cuteness of where they kind of come out of the book and they assemble themselves and they’re going to work like as a team doing things and then Jack Black and the kids come home and they’ve got to fight them off and they’re breaking them and they’re shattering them and they’re Chucking them in the oven and watching them burn up, but then like the pieces of them are able to reassemble

Craig: Yeah, but they can’t be killed.

Yeah, they can’t be killed at all. None of the monsters can correct Yeah, I guess that’s what the bear traps are for But all it does is slow them down because they Hannah told them told the boys When they were chasing the abominable snowman, they can’t be killed. The only thing that you can do is get them back in the book.

So, and, and again, like you said, nobody dies in the movie. Literally nobody, like not even the bad guys die. Like, uh, if, if your, if your kid gets attached to those little gnomes, he’ll see them get crushed, but they just. reassemble themselves and are fine.

Todd: The monsters don’t seem to give a care. The people, you know, you know, are gonna be fine.

It’s just that kind of movie. I love it that, that Slappy now goes to, I think the only other two characters in the movie they can possibly do something to, and that’s the two cops. Who are apparently the only two cops on the force in the town. And they come back, and their police station I think is dark or whatever, and they flip on the light, and there is Slappy sitting in the chair.

And immediately, of course, the cop draws her gun on him, and he looks at her, And he says my favorite line in the whole movie.

Clip: I come in peace, unarmed! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Craig: Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Oh

Clip: god. He’s

Craig: funny. Slappy is funny. And I do like Jack Black’s performance as Slappy. Yeah, his voice, right. He’s not credited.

Yeah, it’s his voice.

Todd: And thank God that for most of it, too, they didn’t use CGI on Slappy. That was an honest to God puppet, and you could tell it was really, it was really good that they did it that way, I think.

Craig: Loved him. Loved that he was the, uh primary antagonist. Because, basically, he’s leading this army of monsters, and, and, the aliens come in and freeze the cops, and, you know, we just, we keep kind of cutting back and forth between people.

At one point, we check in with Aunt Lorraine, and she hears something at her door, and she opens the door, and There’s a, a poodle there with like a, something on it’s forehead, I couldn’t tell what it was, like a pink flower, just a pink, or something, and she goes to get water and she comes back and it’s floating and then it like turns into an evil, like, like it’s face like monsters out, oh, and I loved that, and I’m sure, I’m sure that poodle the video.

Of course it is. Everything is, is, is from the book, but, oh, it’s just, it’s so funny.

Todd: I

Craig: think Zach is the one that figures out that the way that they have, the only way that they can solve this is if R. L. Stein writes a book about capturing all the monsters at once. And then, and then they’ll all be captured or whatever.

And he’s, he’s like, start writing. And he’s like, no, I need my magic typewriter, which again is also from one of the books. It’s a typewriter that makes stories come to life or something. And for some reason, his magic typewriter is in one of the trophy cases at the school. So was he like an alumnus of

Todd: this university or something

Craig: of this

Todd: school or

Craig: something?

I have no idea. Cause you said they moved around and stuff. I miss that part too. I miss that. I don’t remember. Well, she’s talking maybe she was lying.

Todd: When she’s talking to, to the, to him, they’re opening up, right? She’s talking to Zach and Zach’s talking to her. Her name is, uh, Hannah, right? They’ve got their budding little love, cute little young love romance boo going, and she says to him something about how she knows how he feels about feeling alone sometimes because.

She has been moving around every couple years. I don’t know if that means that she’s been bouncing back and forth between him and his supposed mother in London, or if Okay. I thought it meant that the two of them had been moving around a lot.

Craig: So here’s the deal, like, there’s a whole Great scene with the werewolf that if you want to talk about it, we can, but it’s very soon after that it’s when they get to the school, it happens a couple of times, I think the first time they’re running through a graveyard, yeah,

Todd: cemetery, the,

Craig: the, the moonlight shines directly on her and she becomes.

Like ethereal and ghost like. And after seeing that happen a couple of times, he figures out that she’s a ghost or a monster or something. And eventually he confronts R. L. Stein about it. And R. L. Stein’s like, yeah, I wrote, cause he was lonely or something. He just wanted a daughter, but he says, she doesn’t know I wrote her.

To believe she was a real, alive girl. Right. So, maybe all of her memories are just a construct, because she is just a fiction, she’s a written character.

Todd: It could be, that’s true. So maybe he did grow up in that town, and everybody knows him as the author, which begs the question, why is he using some weird alias?

Mr. Shivers or whatever. I don’t know. I don’t, I guess we don’t need to look too deeply into it. But who cares? It is a big surprise when it’s like, Oh, the typewriter was at the school in the trophy case with his name on it. All right. Yeah, you’re right. There’s a deal with those, with the werewolf at the supermarket and Lorraine, Aunt Lorraine shows up.

Craig: I loved it. It’s great. The werewolf chases them all around the supermarket and it’s, It’s, it’s fun and, and again, not great at CGI, but it’s a super fun scene and, and Lorraine

Todd: takes one glance at R. L. Stine and seems to suddenly get so smitten and, and he likewise that it’s a, it’s like a Disney movie. Oh, oh my God, what’s your name?

I’m R. L. Stine. It’s really funny. I’m Lorraine.

Craig: Okay. And I think he starts to run away with the kids and, She says something like, do you want to exchange the numbers? And he says something like, yes, but this isn’t a great time. Something like, it’s really cute.

Todd: Yeah. So supermarket with werewolf, cemetery with zombies.

Craig: Exactly. That’s what I was just going to say. You said it’s a lot of set pieces, supermarket with the werewolf, cemetery, then they run through a cemetery and there are a bunch of zombies, all like thriller style. And it looks great, but it literally takes, it’s like 30 seconds. Like it’s a, they literally just run through the cemetery, the zombies chase them, and then they’re out the other side.

And right into the high school, where a formal dance is happening, high school dances in movies always look like so much fun. They’re not like that in real life, guys. I wish they were half as fun as they

Todd: looked in the movies,

Craig: that’s

Todd: for

Craig: sure.

Todd: With

Craig: all the drama. Yeah, it is not a bunch of gorgeous twenty something looking People in couture.

Their best clothes. Right. Like

Todd: super expensive decorations hanging up

Craig: everywhere. And amazing like DJ and like lights. It looks really fun. It’s really just a bunch of awkward sweaty teenagers in a cafeteria.

Todd: With some

Craig: paper streamers. And handmade signs. Oh boy. It’s pretty

Todd: pathetic. They have their own charms.

I actually miss high school dances a lot. I used to have a lot of fun at those, but not everybody did. It could be very awkward.

Craig: You’re welcome to come take my chaperoning dude. One, if you need to relive that experience. That’s a high school student. I miss them. I don’t think I’d want to be chaperoning one.

Anyway, okay, so then they end up at the high school. They take the stage. They, yeah, he does. I guess he kind of runs off on his own. For some reason, the teenagers all end up like in the dance. I guess their champ wants to like warn everybody. Like he gets on the mic and warns them all about something bad happening or, or something.

And they don’t believe him. But then some kid. Is standing up, looking out the window and he starts shouting, Oh my gosh, there’s something ripping something’s head off or I don’t know. And everybody thinks that he’s joking in response to their announcement, but then doesn’t, does the praying mantis bust in?

Is that what happens?

Todd: Yep. And now all hell breaks loose. In the meantime, Jack Black’s character, R. L. Stine, has his typewriter, and he needs to sneak away to write. And what better place for him to go is in the theater, where he opens the door, looks at the stage, and they’re set up for a production of The Shining.

Craig: I didn’t catch that. Did you catch that? I read about it, but I didn’t notice. No, it said The

Todd: Shining in big letters over the stage. Oh, gosh. Yeah, and he goes, oh my god. That was so funny. That was so funny. Oh my God. I just, that was my second favorite part of the whole movie. The first one was that line, I’m, I’m unarmed from the ventriloquist dummy.

The second thing was him sitting down at a typewriter on a stage production of The Shining.

Craig: Well, he, his animosity towards Stephen King. Like there, it, it, there are like two or three different jokes. Yeah. That that’s funny. That’s funny. Yeah. But also

Todd: that the shining is about, you know, a guy who’s trying to write a story.

A writer.

Craig: Right, right,

Todd: right. And I just, again, I love the conceit. I’m just going to go with it. We all know it’s crazy, but this guy can plunk out cause he’s like, it’s got to be a real goosebump story. You know, I can’t just like write three sentences and they say the end. It’s got to be a full story with a twist in it and that whole deal.

And within the course of five minutes, this guy has pumped out all, but maybe the last three sentences of his story.

Craig: Slappy shows up there and they have a confrontation, but Slappy has also, Gathered all of the monsters outside the high school, like on the football field. And that’s when they also open all the rest of the books.

So there’s literally like a horde of them in there. I would like to watch it again and just. Almost just pause that scene where they show the whole horde of them because it is like cabin in the woods there at the end when it’s just a whole sea of villains and but they’re all specific like a killer clown stands out but oh gosh there are just so so many and and they all attack the school I don’t remember what happens with Jack Black and Slappy in the theater.

Slappy

Todd: confronts Jack Black and leaps up onto his typewriter to interrupt his writing and then slams the lid of the typewriter down on his fingers, which apparently breaks all of his fingers, and that’s gonna prevent him from being able to continue his story. I think the kids burst in, somehow the dummy disappears, and they run away.

With the typewriter, but Jack Black’s like, you know, eventually like, You’ve gotta finish the story or I’m gonna dictate it to you, and that’s kinda how it goes. But you can’t forget the moment where Champ gets his girl too. In the hallway.

Craig: Oh, yeah. He saves her from the werewolf, right? Oh, God, that was so cute.

Todd: This girl who we only saw in the very beginning.

Clip: And

Todd: here

Clip: she’s getting attacked

Todd: by the werewolf. The werewolf has her cornered. And Champ, in this big bout of uncharacteristic courage, leaps up onto his back. And I’m thinking, how in the world is this guy gonna fight off this werewolf, you know? And he bites into the werewolf’s neck, and the werewolf completely freaks out, becomes very incapacitated, and sort of scurries off.

And like, what was that? And she pulls him aside and he’s like, opens his mouth and he goes, Silver fillings.

Craig: Yeah. He’s got, he’s got like at least one whole silver tooth. He’s like, yeah, when I was a kid, I didn’t brush my teeth for a whole year.

Oh boy. That was really funny. And then they

Todd: kiss because she is so overtaken by him suddenly in his act of bravery that she’s ready to mound him right there in the hallway. So. Oh gosh,

Craig: yeah that was sweet, and he’s such, he’s funny, that kid, that actor is really really funny. He really is. And so, endearing.

So charming, I, I, yeah, I was so happy to see him get his kiss, that was sweet. But then, okay, so they have to, they, the monsters are all converging, so they have to figure out a way to get out of there. Like, Jack Black is, like, Slappy just wants me, I’ll go out there, and you guys, the rest of you can get away.

And Zack’s like, no, no, I have a plan. Ten, you, you explain the plan, cause I, it’s a little fuzzy to me.

Todd: I’m not sure, I’m not sure if I looked away from the screen at this moment. I feel like I must have, because the next thing I know, they’re driving away in a school bus. Jack Black is going some other direction.

And then, the monsters have attacked another school bus and got down on its side.

Craig: It’s a mislead. It’s an intentional mislead because, like, it looks like Jack Black is driving. A bus away, and I guess he is, but, but the bus that the, the first bus that the monsters think is Jack Black, they attack it, and it’s empty, there’s not even a driver, right?

I don’t think there’s a driver, like, but it drives a long way.

Todd: It drives a long way, it doesn’t have a driver, they leap onto it, and when it’s, it’s kind of on its side, and so when I think it’s the werewolf opens the door in it, they can peer inside and see. I What is in there is some kind of weird Rube Goldberg type contraption that apparently these kids were able to rig up in two minutes.

In seconds. Yeah. A

Craig: bomb.

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: that explodes. It’s a huge bomb, like, it’s a huge explosion that like blows up. Tons of the monsters, again, they just regenerate, so it doesn’t really matter. But, it, it was a decoy, it was a decoy bus, and the rest of them really are on a bus.

Todd: But also, like you had said earlier, in the way the monsters assemble, I like the way that they de assemble that way as well.

Like, when it blows them up, they all kind of explode into ink, which then just, you know, is on the ground. And then, of course, that ink just reassembles itself back into the monsters. But it’s so cool, like, it’s, it ties really well into the theme. theme of the words coming to life from the page, but also makes this movie extremely non violent for kids, right?

There’s no blood, no bits of monster going anywhere even. It’s a neat conceit and it works.

Craig: It almost, it, yeah, it kind of reinforces, subtly reinforces that they’re just make believe. Yeah, yeah. This is just pretend, this is just imagination, nobody’s getting hurt. It’s fine. True. And

Todd: also that they’re immortal, you know, like the words on the page in our imaginations, they’re immortal, you know, you can’t kill these things.

It also adds this element of what in the world are they going to do to it that I really liked, you know. You see the big bomb go off, and I thought for a minute, Oh, now they only have Slappy to deal with. Because Slappy wasn’t there. Right. But, nope, they all reassemble, and I was like, Oh shit, no, there’s still a full on horde coming at them, so.

Craig: Yeah, so they go back to the carnival for the big final showdown, I guess.

Todd: They run into the funhouse first, and they’re all inside the funhouse, and Jack Black is dictating the rest of the story to Zack, and he’s typing furiously away. But then Slappy immediately appears in the funhouse, and all these different mirrors, and at one point there’s kind of a superimposition where, you know, the way the reflection in the mirror works, it looks like half of R.

L. Stine and half of, Slappy go together in the same person. I

Craig: found that hilarious. I like they’re treating it like a psychological thriller in this moment. And I, the way that it’s shot, that’s what it looks like. And I don’t remember any of the lines, but I just remember it’s Jack Black talking to himself.

Yes. And honestly, like I actually like that component of it too. Like. He really is talking to himself, you know, this is his creation, you

Todd: know. It’s a little heady for the kids, but it’s kind of a nice little throw in there to make it more interesting for the adults, I think, you know.

Craig: But it’s, it’s kind of like slappy and I like that part that you mentioned where they do kind of, it’s not split screen, it’s, it’s meant to be like, you know, part of the illusion of the mirrors in the, the fun house, but their, their faces are.

You know, one half is Jack Black, one half is Slappy, and well, it was cool. I liked it.

Todd: He makes some comments earlier, and I don’t remember the context and exactly when he said them or why he said them, but he does make some allusions to the fact that Slappy was his most, um, um, Like, the character he related to the most, or the one that he thought was the most like him, or There’s something along those lines that is said more than once earlier in the story.

Like, this is gonna be his nemesis, because this is sort of like the dark side of him, or the character in his book that is able to say the things he can’t as a person, you know, I don’t know, but Mm hmm. But yeah, it was a nice image. A lot of this kind of detail put into a movie that didn’t require it.

That’s nice.

Craig: Yeah. Oh, gosh, yeah, I think that’s great. The writing is excellent fan service.

Todd: Mm-Hmm. .

Craig: And I think that’s fantastic. But yeah, I said they had to get to higher ground. Now I remember the reason because Slappy opens the blob book. Mm-Hmm. . And so the blob, you know, fills the whole fun house and starts coming out of the fun house.

And so the kids say they had to get to higher ground, so they climb the Ferris wheel, but because Jack Black tells them go and he tells Zach to finish the book. He’s like, I don’t remember. Yeah. And he’s like, just finish it.

And, and he runs off to what, I don’t know, confront slappy, I guess. He

Todd: just, he just stands out. I was a little puzzled by this, but he just literally stands outside and lets the blob overtake him. And he kind of pops his head out of it. So he’s not like dying in there, but. He just succumbed to it, and I’m not sure if that was supposedly a distraction?

Or what that why he did that.

Craig: I know, I just have yeah, in my notes, I just have the blob eats stein. Eheh, and then it carries on. The kids climb up the ferris wheel, the monsters all converge, he finishes the book. And locks it. It instantly binds it by the way. Yeah. Oh, that was hilarious. Like it just like, he just like stuck it in binding and it was done.

Like, look, Oh my gosh, it was funny. But then the mantis sends the Ferris wheel rolling, which is fun, but they would have been dead. That would all have

Todd: died a hundred times over in this rolling Ferris wheel. I

Craig: feel like they keep showing the kids as it’s rolling and rolling, like it rolls Far they conveniently never show close ups when the kids would be at the bottom right because they couldn’t because they would be dead Of course But they I guess when they land they’re gonna you know The monsters are coming and they’re gonna open the book and Zach is hesitant and Hannah’s like it’s okay I know so it turns out she really knows that she’s just a story and And she tells him to open the book, but he won’t.

So she does, and the monsters all get sucked in and he grabs hold of her. And he, and I love this. I love, you know, a big, all the bad guys get sucked into it. The portal vortex at the end of the movie. I love it. Uh, I love it. And he’s trying, he’s gosh, this is so monster squad. I didn’t even think about it until now.

Like he’s holding onto her just like Phoebe holds on to. Frankenstein at the end, and she’s starting to get sucked in and Slappy gets sucked in and he says, Slappy’s not happy. See you in your dreams. Oh my gosh. That was great. And then Hannah, oh gosh, sorry. I, I’m just excited. It’s so funny. Go on. Hannah tells Zach that she’ll always be in his imagination, and she kisses him, and then she gets sucked in, and then everything is just back to normal, like, I have no idea how much time is supposed to have passed, like, it almost seems like it’s the next

Todd: day.

Right. That’s how it’s almost presented, really. They’re all back in school and R. L. Stein is the new English teacher. Okay. And he walks down the hall and he passes by a guy who walks by and he goes,

Craig: Oh, hey. Oh, wait, real quick. While he’s in class, he’s the new, he’s the new English teacher. And he had, I thought he had such, I love the line.

He said, every story has three components. The beginning, the middle. And the twist.

Not what I was expecting. I loved that line. Yeah. No, not me either. I loved that line. I thought that was such a clever, fun line. I liked Jack Black’s delivery of that particular line. It was good. But yeah, go ahead about Mr. Black, Mr. Black, the, uh,

Todd: drama teacher. Oh yeah. He just walks by the drama teacher says, Oh, Hey, Mr.

Black. And Mr. Black looks up as he’s walking by and goes, Oh, Hey, uh, Mr. Stein. And it turns out that’s R. L. Stein’s cameo. So Jack Black is calling R. L. Stein, R. L. Stein, Mr. Black, and R. L. Stein is calling Jack Black, Mr. Stein. It’s kind of funny.

Craig: It is funny. I was looking away from the screen when I heard that line.

Oh, really? Yeah, and I, I, but I heard it and I turned back to the screen and they had already gone on with the scene, Zach and Jack Black talking together. And I said, I bet you money. That was R. L. Stine that he said, Hey, Mr. Black 2. So I rewound it and I saw the guy and like, I don’t know what R. L. Stine looks like, but I saw him walk by and I’m like, that’s him.

Like that, that is such the, the, the cameo at the end of the real guy. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Right. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so they talk about Hannah. And Jack Black says, she’ll always be in your mind and in your heart, but also over there.

And he points back and she’s standing there and Jack Black as R. L. Stine says, yeah, I wrote her back. Todd, I almost cried. Are you serious? Yes, yes, I almost cried. I thought it was serious. So sweet. It

Todd: was sweet. He holds up his book and then he, then he lights the book on fire. So I guess it can’t, she can’t get sucked back into it anymore.

And then immediately drops it into a garbage can and closes the lid on it. And I, my first thought was. That’s going to put out the fire, bro. You need to, you need to let that burn a little longer, but yeah, she’s back and, uh, her and, uh, Zach embrace. And that’s the end.

Craig: Well, and then, but then Stein is just walking his new, his magic typewriter is back in the showcase and he’s walking by it and we see and hear the, a click of the typewriter and he stops and he starts looking at it and it starts.

I don’t remember if it starts to type or.

Todd: Yeah, it’s typing.

Craig: It’s typing. It says the Invisible Boy’s Revenge, and then he’s like, yeah, you forgot about me or something, and the Invisible Boy, I guess, attacks him, and then that’s the end, and the credits roll, and it rolls over. Artwork by the guy who did all the cover artwork.

I mean, it’s it’s the R. L. Stine imagery, but mm hmm

Todd: So how much sense does that make though? I mean wouldn’t the invisible boy have gotten sucked in with all the other monsters like what one would think I don’t know Was there some loophole in the the end of the story that Zack wrote that excluded the invisible boy?

Craig: I don’t think we should overthink it. I think it was just, it was just a stinger. It’s just a stinger.

Todd: Fair enough. I just thought maybe, maybe they accounted for it somewhere and I missed it.

Craig: That moment where I almost cried almost didn’t happen because they filmed. That she didn’t come back But he just happened to meet a girl that looked strikingly like her But test audiences didn’t like it.

So they Reshot it with her actually coming back and I like it that way. It’s sweet. It’s good for kids cute. It is good for kids I I liked this movie. It really did. Like I really enjoyed it and I’m glad because I couldn’t find it streaming free anywhere, so I bought it. So I’m glad if I hadn’t liked it, I would have been really pissed off that I paid 8 for it.

Todd: Well, I mean, everybody else seemed to like it too. It got very, very favorable reviews from audiences. It seemed like the critics all said, yeah, this is really nothing groundbreaking, but it’s super cute and it’s good for kids. And, and it’s, it’s a nice little nod to R. L. Stein and all of his work. And it did really well as far as money goes.

And all around the world. Enough to spawn a sequel, Goosebumps 2 Haunted Halloween. Which will probably do another Halloween season, I’m sure. Maybe. I don’t know. That movie apparently only has a brief cameo with Jack Black’s character in it. So, I guess R. L. Stine didn’t end up becoming a central figure in the sequel.

The sequel. So yeah, I think he shows up at the end. That’ll be a little disappointing, honestly. But anyway. Yeah, no, I enjoyed it too. I, for the same reasons you did. It was just a nice, fun, cute little movie. Nice little popcorn kids movie, something the whole family could sit down and watch. And like I said earlier, perfect to kick off your Halloween, I think.

Craig: Yeah, me too. And I’m glad, I’m glad you picked it because I wouldn’t have, because it, like we said at the very beginning, it’s not specifically said at Halloween, but it may as well be, it feels. So much like a Halloween movie. I mean, it’s definitely definitely a fun one for this time of year to get you in the mood.

Yeah, for sure.

Todd: Well, thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend. Find us online. Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast is all you need to Google to get to our website. Find our Patreon at patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. And of course our website, chainsawhorror.

com. Leave us a comment there. Let us know what you thought and let us know what you’re planning to do for Halloween. It’ll be a lot of fun. That’s something we’ll certainly be talking about behind the scenes with the patrons. So if you want to get in on some of that conversation, consider becoming a patron over at patreon.

com slash Chainsaw Podcast. All right. Happy kickoff to the Halloween season, everyone. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          We lost a legend, folks: A young and strapping James Earl Jones stars in this loony folk-horror movie that hilariously fails to hit on almost every mark. So bad it’s good? You’d better believe it. And he’s not the only Oscar-winner in this. You’ll also be treated to performances by José Ferrer and Lila Kedrova, a young Martin Kove, former Miss USA Deborah Shelton, and some of the most gorgeous views of the Greek Isles you’ll see on film.

We can’t say enough good things about the iconic American treasure that is James Earl Jones, but we do our best to give an overview on his life as we marvel at his range and willingness to commit to a variety of projects.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptBloodtide (1982)

Episode 408, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd.

Craig: And I’m Craig.

Todd: Well, we come once again to a tribute episode for this year that we really needed to sneak in just because this actor has been Such a part of our history as, as people.

Craig: Yeah, this one, you know, sometimes every once in a while, we’ll, we’ll do one of these tribute episodes for somebody that may not be a huge star, but for whatever reason, you know, is near and dear to us for whatever reason, this guy.

is a legend and and I really think that his legacy will be sustained for a really really long time like he’s just so iconic and his voice if nothing else his voice I don’t think is going anywhere I mean people are going to recognize this voice

Todd: It’s almost like Orson Welles, right? In case you haven’t figured it out yet, we are talking about, uh, the legendary James Earl Jones, who passed away, I would say ripe old age, he, he lived to be 93.

93? Yeah. That’s pretty good, yeah, that’s pretty good. I mean, I hope I live to be 93.

Craig: I know, I read some clickbait headline that was like, the James Earl Jones tragedy, the, his unexpected death, something, something. It’s like, unexpected? Like, he’s 93.

Todd: You

Craig: lived to 93. If you’re not expecting it at 93.

Todd: I’d be looking over my shoulder every

Craig: day if I was 93.

I know, right? Here we go. You tell me about James Earl Jones. Here’s what I know about him. He’s a damn fine actor. He’s been in a lot of things that were big touchstones for us growing up. For us in particular, I think it’s Star Wars, of course.

Todd: Oh, yes.

Craig: Darth Vader is one of the most well known and and popular characters in pop culture around the world period the end

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: and james earle jones did the voice acting for that and and we associate him with that and it’s it’s huge I mean he he was he was still doing it up until a few years ago

Todd: Yeah

Craig: that and then of course mufasa and the lion king again one of the biggest movies of all time and and he’s uh Well known for that among many, many, many other things.

He did, you know, he did film, he did television. I assume he did stage. Oh yeah. Was he an EGOT? Yes, he was. So yeah, he did everything. He did it all huge, huge, huge star. And from everything that I ever saw him in, in terms of interviews, he seemed very humble and very down to earth. He was willing to make fun of himself.

He did a hilarious episode of. Will and Grace, where he played one of Jack’s acting students, and of course, Jack is a terrible actor, and here he is giving James Earl Jones acting lessons, and they performed together, I think, a scene out of Sex and the City. Oh God. Jack, Jack, they like, He, Jack had to teach James Earl Jones to like, go up higher in his register and say like, Jimmy Choos!

When I heard that he passed away, I was sad, of course, but you know, to see that he lived to be 93, he had just in the last, I don’t know, I have no concept of time, but it’s been within like the last five years that the live action. Lion King came out from Disney and I’m pretty sure that he was the only performer that they asked to reprise his role.

And he did. Look

James Earl Jones: Simba, everything the light touches is our kingdom. A king’s time as ruler rises and falls like the sun. One day Simba, the sun will set on my time here and will rise with you as the new king.

Craig: His voice is one of those like, if he’s still available, who else do you get to do it? You don’t get more iconic than James Earl Jones.

So it’s, it’s sad that he’s gone, but damn, what an amazing, amazing career.

Todd: You’re absolutely right. And you know, you mentioned Humble. He famously didn’t get to do it. on screen credit for the first two Star Wars movies. He refused. He did not. He said, I didn’t play that big of a role in the film. So I don’t deserve a credit.

He finally acquiesced by the third movie. That’s just a testament to how, uh, you know, compared to Orson Wells, for example, who was notoriously, uh, cocky and arrogant. This guy had to know what an icon he was and remained humble. And. I think one of the cool things about him is that he was willing to do almost anything.

I mean, a guy of this stature doesn’t need to be in low budget movies, doesn’t need to make little appearances here and there. And yet, even throughout his career, all the way back to the early days, you know, he would be performing in Movies like we’re going to review today, you know, alongside big important films.

And that’s also, I think, a Testament to his, his humility, you know, nothing, not no project seemed beneath him as long as it interested him. And I think a lot of that comes from his. Childhood and his upbringing because he stumbled into acting kind of by accident as a high school student now as a voice actor and an Aspiring voice actor for much longer than that many years ago.

I read I think I was the height I think I might have been in high school myself It was either a biography or a mini biography an article about James Earl Jones interestingly enough He had a terrible stutter, huh? In fact, he was mute He had such trouble with his stutter that he did not speak. And he said that his muteness started, uh, the first day of his first grade of school, and continued until he started high school.

Wow. He just didn’t talk because he was so embarrassed by his stutter, and got made fun of, and just couldn’t talk. How ironic is that, you know? To the day he died, he said, He still had to think very carefully about everything he was going to say before he said it, in order to overcome that stutter. And the first thing that got him going down that road was his high school English teacher, who noticed that he really liked to write poetry, and used this as a way to encourage him to speak in front of the class.

And then he decided he could take acting lessons in order to help him. Overcome the stutter as well. So, uh, that is really how we got into acting was as a very practical way of overcoming this debilitating, this debilitating hindrance that really, really kept him quiet and closeted, you know, as a child.

And then he goes on to have this deep baritone voice.

All of these roles that we know him for. It’s pretty interesting.

Craig: I feel like anything that needed voiceover narration. For the past 30 years, they’re like, can we get James Earl Jones? No. All right. Helen Mirren. Call her. It’s fine.

Todd: It’s true. George Lucas actually picked Orson Welles initially for the voice of Darth Vader, but at the end of the day, thought that his voice was just a little too recognizable. To do it, so. Oh, man. He was actually a pre med major in college, and he was even in the army during the Korean War. And this was all before he started pursuing an actual career in acting, but while he was waiting for his orders, he was already taking acting classes and acting on stage, and he was working, I think, as a janitor for that theater in order to pay for the classes.

His father was an actor.

Craig: Yeah, his father was in sleepaway camp. You Yeah, he was a cook. He

Todd: was the cook who got the boiling water on

Craig: him. I don’t remember if he was the one that got the boiling water, maybe he was, but he was definitely a cook in Sleepaway Camp. Oh

Todd: my gosh, you’re absolutely right. Well, his father like left the family when he was very young and apparently they were estranged for quite a while, but then they did end up acting together at least in one or two plays.

So they supposedly made amends. I don’t think there’s a lot really known about that whole relationship, but yeah, I He started working on stage, just kind of like you suspected, and uh, from there moved on to movies. His film debut was in Dr. Strangelove.

Craig: Did

Todd: he study?

Craig: Does it say anything

Todd: about Yeah, he studied acting.

Yeah.

Craig: He seems like somebody who’s studied. You

Todd: can tell. He has a very theatrical presentation in everything he does. He does. For better or for worse, really, because I’m sure. There are some roles Obviously film requires a different style of acting, and sometimes he works In a movie and sometimes he Doesn’t I think based on that

Craig: I can’t think of anything that I haven’t enjoyed a minute Actually, i’m just sitting here and trying to think of the things that he’s done and I remembered coming to america He was so funny coming to america.

Oh, that was great. Yes, like he’s he can be he seems like a very Serious actor and he is and he can be but he can be really funny too.

Todd: Oh, yeah

Craig: Gosh, I just love people like that. He just seemed like an all around really gifted guy

Todd: We’ve talked about him before on this podcast at least once when we reviewed The exorcist part two and that’s probably the movie We I would imagine we would have jumped to if we hadn’t already done it as a probably

Craig: I don’t remember him in that at all.

Todd: Oh, he was the, he comes in kind of midway towards the end when they go to Africa and go to that tribe, and he’s a researcher.

Craig: A researcher? Did he have like lots of bugs or something?

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: yeah,

Todd: that’s the one about the locusts and things. Yeah. Yeah, okay, alright. That movie, I think, came out around the same time that he, oh, that Star Wars came out, the same year.

Craig: What year did Star Wars come out?

Todd: It’s 1977, yeah, 77.

Craig: It’s too bad that he had to continue doing, apparently, movies like this one.

Todd: Oh my god, you sent me three that you had looked up, and when I, I looked at all three and I have to say this one kind of jumped out to me as the one that probably he’s in the most. Yeah. And that’s what we usually strive for, you know, for better or for worse. We’ve done tribute episodes where a character came in for a scene and then left.

I think Christine was that with, um, Kelly Preston. But, no, he is 100 percent in this movie. He’s one of the two main characters, I would say, in this one. And so, I was like, let’s do that one. And then, when I saw that, Cobra Kai man himself, Martin Kove. Yep, yep, the star. I’m like, dude, we gotta do this. So, uh, even though I had never heard of it before, we did 1981’s Blood Tide.

Have you heard of this before?

Craig: I don’t think so. I mean, the title is kind of generic, so I may have heard of it, but I’ve certainly never seen it, didn’t know anything about it. I’m not surprised.

Todd: Yeah, I know. I’m not surprised at all that this has languished in obscurity. Although, I was surprised at the sheer star power for its time anyway in this movie.

I just couldn’t believe. You’ve got Martin Kove. You’ve got James Earl Jones. We have a former Miss USA in here.

Craig: Which one was she? The dumb one or the less dumb one?

Todd: Oh, I’m not sure which one you’re talking about. She’s the spacey one. She’s the spacey one who’s kind of the object of everything.

Craig: Okay.

Todd: Restoring patience.

Craig: Not, not Martin Kove’s wife. They’re married. Aren’t they? They’re on their honeymoon, right?

Todd: Yeah, yeah, they’re on their honeymoon. Martin Kove’s wife was Mary Louise Weller. Mary Louise Weller, well, we’ve seen her in The Evil. Remember? We saw that one recently. The one about the haunted house, it was really cheesy.

Electrical wires, electrocuted people. Oh, yeah. Uh huh. She was the main character in that one. The

Craig: psychic one?

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Nobody cares.

Todd: Including us. Her biggest role was in Animal House. She was Mandy in Animal House. She was

Craig: Both of the women in this were in Animal House, I think.

Todd: Yeah, most of them were.

Craig: So, there’s her, and then there’s Babs.

Her name’s Barbara. Do they call her Babs, or did I just call her that? I don’t remember.

Todd: No, they say that she, uh, I’m Barbara, but you can call me Babs. That’s what everyone calls me. And then I don’t think they ever call her Babs again.

Craig: Yeah, I know, right? Was she the Miss USA? No, she wasn’t.

Todd: Madeline. Yeah, Madeline.

Deborah Shelton. Yeah, she was Miss USA in 1970. Well, she’s

Craig: very beautiful, but they’re all pretty.

Todd: After Miss USA, she started getting into acting, and I think she did a lot of television. She’s got that face. She’s got that 80s television face, totally. She starred in Brian De Palma’s Body Double in 1984.

Brian De Palma didn’t like her voice, the way she talked in that one, so actually she was dubbed by another actress. Helen Shaver. So, uh, you can see her in there, but you’re not going to hear her in there.

Craig: Well, she barely talks in this movie. She doesn’t really have much to do except like stare. She’s weird.

I’m just, I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna let the cat out of the bag. This movie sucks.

Todd: Oh, this movie is so bad.

Craig: I did not enjoy it. It’s laughable and like, like laughably bad, but not in a like, Oh, isn’t this fun? No, I didn’t think it was fun at all.

Todd: I just thought it was terrible. I don’t know. Maybe if you had someone sitting next to you while you watched it who, where you could laugh at how bad it was, you would’ve had more fun.

Craig: Maybe? I do. I wasn’t surprised, and in fact, I actually appreciated the movie more when I read, I think one of the actresses in, I think it was one of the actresses, and an interview said something like. The only purpose of the movie was to move money around.

Todd: Yeah. Currency transfers.

Craig: You’ve talked about this stuff before.

Is this like, I don’t know, is this like tax shelters or is this, I don’t understand what’s, I mean, I get it in general, nobody cares about the movie. It’s just a means to an end financially.

Todd: She was talking about different currencies, right? Like currency transfers and stuff. Cause there was like, this was filmed in Greece and there was something else, you know, obviously like, um, American production and.

Greek production, some American actors, something like that. I don’t, I don’t know. I’m not clear on that. But, uh,

Craig: she just said she was surprised that they were able to cut it together into a finished product at all. So it sounded to me like they were maybe just shooting stuff because they needed to like they did.

Well, I got the impression that they didn’t really care about the movie and that’s what it seems like. I was kind of surprised that they can cut it all together too, because it’s wild. I’m sorry. I’ll let you, I’ll let you talk about it, but it’s just a re it’s a really bad version of the wicker man.

Todd: Yeah.

It’s trying to be a folk hero movie, but it’s also trying to be a couple other movies, and it gets really, it’s very tonally off from time to time. You know, at one point it’s getting kind of mysterious and almost artsy in cutting together all these different disparate shots and closeups on things and giving us cuts to people who we haven’t met yet and won’t meet for a while doing weird things, but then It gets like 80s horror when we get a girl sitting on the beach with a boombox who starts exercising And then takes her top off and dives into the into the water It’s like what why is this in this movie all of a sudden and yeah, so sometimes it’s funny Funny.

Sometimes it’s that, and sometimes it’s dead serious to the point where it’s overdramatic and melodramatic. It doesn’t have that same consistency of tone or emotional through line.

Craig: Yeah. Really nothing. And I mean, the plot is really thin and we’ve seen it a million times before. You said, you know, it seems like it’s trying to be a lot of different movies.

It is. What is that? Again, we’ve done it. I can’t remember the name of it. The fish people

Todd: movie. Oh yeah, um, Humanoids from the Deep?

Craig: Yeah, it’s that, kind of. It also has the feel of any of those movies where, you know, Americans go to a foreign village and, you know, everything seems shady and everyone seems shady and there’s some dark history.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: We’ve seen it a million times. It’s just, this one is boring and it doesn’t make any sense. Like, I, it’s not like it doesn’t make sense. I get it’s basically kind of the same thing as Wicker Man, this Martin Cove and his wife are newly married and they’ve come to Greece. And this does look, they shot it on location and the location is stunning.

Todd: Oh yeah.

Craig: That’s the one thing that I’ll give. I mean, I, I read that it was miserable to film there, but it looks. Amazing.

Todd: The photography is really beautiful. And when I say that, I just mean literally, the photography is beautiful. It’s not that the shots are stylistic, you know, or unique or masterful.

They’re quite plain. But you just freeze the frame and look, and I, you know, it looks like your vacation photo is on some exotic beach somewhere. It’s just beautiful. It’s gorgeous.

Craig: Yeah, it looks like more rustic Mamma Mia. Like, it’s like, you know, the, the Greek Isles, you know, right on the shore, it’s, it’s really beautiful.

I, I guess it was so hot, like, I, I, like 120 degrees or something. I’ve never even experienced that kind of heat, I don’t think, but I can’t imagine working in it, but you could tell because they were all covered in sweat at all times.

Todd: That’s true. Martin Kove’s sweaty chest, and it felt like the movie was really a vehicle for Martin Kove’s chest.

I loved how in almost every scene he had his shirt off, even though it didn’t seem to make sense.

Craig: He was a beefcake. He had his shirt off, and his hairy chest, and then little shorty shorts just running around.

Todd: Yeah. He looks

Craig: good.

Todd: It

Craig: was difficult for me to accept him in a hero role, because he’s, in my head, he’s a villain.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: He’s that bad guy from Karate Kid, so it’s difficult for me to reconcile him as anything else. But he does fine. He does fine in this movie. He doesn’t have a whole lot to do. Nobody has a whole lot to do.

Todd: I have to say, first off, like, that was part of the joy that kept my eyes glued to the screen. I just was fascinated by the idea of seeing this young Martin Kove, like you said, as a hero, with these two, three, gorgeous, absolutely way too gorgeous to have three men this gorgeous in one place, in one small town.

That’s how, you know, it’s Hollywood because this would not happen, but these three stunningly beautiful women on screen,

Craig: and I feel like the only other women in the movie are nuns.

Todd: Direct contrast, but one of those nuns is an Oscar winner. We have three Oscar winners in this movie. Really? We have James Earl Jones with Lila Kedrova.

She’s Russian. She won an Oscar for her role in. Zorba the Greek in 1964. She played Madam Hortense. I know I saw that a really long time ago, but I don’t remember. And then there is a mayor of this community. You know, it’s just like the Wicker Man. They show up, they land, they’re wandering around this town and the mayor pops out.

Craig: And they’re looking for someone. Neil, Martin Cove’s sister was here because she’s an art student or something. But. They, they haven’t heard from her in a really long time. But it’s the same thing, like, he was looking for a kid or whatever. This, this guy’s looking for his sister. And of course she’s kind of floating around ethereally staring at people from cliffs.

Todd: It’s so corny. It is so. Corny, and there’s also little children running be like popping out and running away and like barely visible as they flit around the corner But then there’s a cat

One of the kids throw like they just look up and a cat is coming down at them and I mean somebody threw a cat threw a cat, like, I can just imagine this cameraman laying on the ground, aimed the sky, and somebody way up high just chucks a cat over at him, because this cat is coming out like a flying squirrel, all four legs extended, falling straight to the camera.

Craig: I laughed so hard, I don’t even remember where that is, I know I took a note on it somewhere, but wouldn’t that have, who, they, the kids threw it at. Martin Kove and his wife when they first get there, is that right? Yeah, that’s Neil. Neil and Sherry, yeah. I think that I heard the cat, like, scream, like, a split second before I saw it.

And so I was like, oh, cats care. You know, that’s regular. But no, it’s like, these people just Shut this cat. Oh my God. It was hilarious. And it scares them and it made them jump. Oh God. It was really funny. That was probably the best part of the movie, I would say.

Todd: Oh, it’s one of the This movie, I think, is filled with little nuggets of gold.

I can’t wait to mine them. I was just gonna say, though, that the mayor pops out and brings them into his house, and like you said, this is when he explains, when they explain to him that, you know, have you seen this woman? Shows the picture, and of course he’s like, nope, nope, have never seen her before, never at all.

And the mayor is, uh, is played by a veteran actor, Jose Ferrer. And he’s the other guy who’s an Oscar winner. He What an Oscar for his leading role in the 1950, I believe, version of Cyrano de Bergerac.

Craig: Huh. Okay. I can, yeah.

Todd: Yeah. And God, this guy’s been in tons of movies. The Greatest Show on Earth, and Greatest Story Ever Told.

He was Herod. That was 1965. And, and lots of television, and movies and television all the way up until the, the day he died in 1992. So.

Craig: Wow. I recognized his name. I didn’t recognize him, but when you said Cyrano de Bergerac, I can see it. I can see. White and that and he’s the shady mayor because everybody’s shady.

Like when they first arrived, it seems deserted and people are like peeking around corners and stuff. And, and the mayor basically says. People don’t visit here often and you should leave. Get out. We’ll make you up a room and then you can leave first thing in the morning.

Todd: Yep. Oh boy. The dialogue in this movie is so bad.

It is so laugh out loud, funny, bad. Because then, coming into the room, there’s this crazy guy who’s just, uh, talking to himself and cackling the whole time and doesn’t speak a lick of English.

Craig: Yeah, he’s like Igor. Yeah. I don’t know why he’s there. We keep referencing all these other movies, but that’s because it’s, it’s so basic.

It’s cobbled together from other movies. Transylvania 6500, wasn’t there like a, uh, Murderous basement dweller basically that was just like this guy like an Igor character. I don’t know the point is Trope after trope after trope like just sewn together in a in a not Really creative way. Oh, no. I was not impressed

Todd: Yeah I love it that she just says like he calls the guy over to like fill their glasses or something and he calls him Dionysi and she pipes up Sherry.

Clip: Did you call him Dionysus?

Todd: Dionysus.

Clip: But it’s like Dionysus, the god of wine and theater. That’s really neat to have an innkeeper called Dionysus who sells wine. How greek.

Craig: Yeah, but see, we’ve done a lot of movies, and even some recently, where the dialogue is so bad it’s funny, but I feel like that’s almost more tongue in cheek.

This is played so straight. Like, there isn’t a wink, I don’t think, of intentional humor. They’re not trying

Todd: to be funny. I

Craig: don’t even think the cat scare was intentionally. I don’t think that was meant to be funny. I think that was really meant to scare you.

Todd: Yeah, you’re right.

Craig: And this, yeah, it sounds ridiculous, but no, she just played that just straight as a wire.

Todd: Almost all of the acting in this movie is quite bad, but I don’t necessarily fault the actors. The lines they’re reading are pretty ridiculous. They’re poorly written. The situations are kind of silly. Characters suddenly jump from one thing to another, which we’ll talk about in a minute. And, uh, I also probably fault the directing, you know, I just can see where, you know, scene by scene, these actors were directed to go a certain way and so then they played it up, but then it doesn’t cut well with the rest of the scene or the scenes that come before or follow, I just really got that sense of a movie that was.

It’s all cobbled together. Absolutely. Yeah, from a bunch of different shots and scenes that not a lot of thought was put into making them consistent and coherent, you know? That’s what I mean, like, no emotional through line.

Craig: It is all cobbled together, and it’s not as though throughout it I was confused, but I, nothing is happening, like, there’s just vague suggestions of things, like, Madeline, he finally finds Madeline.

Who at various times is like catatonic and then other times, okay. And like, she just, she just kind of wanders away to stare wistfully a lot or like hide behind things. And it’s, it’s super weird. So we’ve seen her a couple of times already staring and now she is with James Earl Jones. Here’s how bad the writing is.

James Earl Jones, pretty much. Only just quotes Othello through the whole thing, like, they, like, I guess they just couldn’t even really be bothered to write lines for him.

Todd: He does initially, and then he, he quotes Othello, unless he doesn’t, and then when he doesn’t, He doesn’t seem like the same guy. It’s weird.

So, the guy, Dionysus, you know, stumbles when he sees the photo of the girl. So, they know that they’re hiding something. But, you know how it is, they gotta stay in town and figure it out. So then they go out on a night exploration, this couple. And that’s when they find James Earl Jones. Right away. Extremely dramatic conversation with him.

Well, you’re right, he just quotes Othello, and he just seems like a total loon.

Craig: He seems like a lunatic, and he seems really menacing, and like he holds a knife to Neil’s throat. And I thought immediately, like, he must be a bad guy, but then I guess Madeline’s like, no, it’s cool. And Then they’re all just cool.

No,

Todd: not only, I mean, it’s this real dramatic scene where he’s like, he’s holding a knife to his throat and she talks him down. He’s like, okay. And he sits in the corner and he’s angry and he’s quoting Othello.

James Earl Jones: Rude am I in my speech, and little blessed with a soft phrase of peace.

Clip: Cut it out, Frye.

James Earl Jones: Okay. Okay.

You weren’t expected. And the natives here aren’t exactly friendly.

Todd: And she’s all spacey and weird and they’re exchanging weird glances and they’re kind of saying some cryptic things to each other. But she kind of seems to be a little pissed off at him for some reason and she starts to walk out of the room.

And then, who pops in but this Bubbly, blonde girl in skimpy clothes, and Hi, I’m Barbara, but you can call me Babs! And just sits down next to him, practically in his lap, and just like, So, what are you guys doing? Why are you here? I’m like, What? Where did this come from? The whole scene was so weird, it This scene is like a microcosm of the tone of the whole movie.

Like, the whole movie’s like this. Yeah. It’s so crazy.

Craig: I never got a handle on what was going on.

Todd: Between those three?

Craig: Well, just in general, like, what was he doing? We left out the very, very beginning of the movie. is set in like, I don’t know, ancient times. And there’s a voiceover, a really annoying voiceover that talks about the struggle between good and evil and they have to placate the power in the sea with a virgin sacrifice.

And it kind of shows this, like the marking a woman, like marking her head and like carrying her on a platform and delivering her to this, this, ancient looking archway or door underground. Now, when we come to our actual story, James Earl Jones is Like exploring these caves and apparently has been for a long time and knows what’s down there like he’s found The door because after they all talk they also just casually mentioned that scuba diving is forbidden for some reason I don’t remember why

Todd: I think it’s cuz um, they don’t want people bringing artifacts up from the floor

Craig: So is that what he’s doing?

Is he like is he in Indiana Jones? Is he trying to steal ancient artifacts?

Todd: It took me forever to sort this out and I think I did by the end of it. So what we see in that opening that you’re talking about is that they put a woman on a raft and they kind of carry her to the water and set it down in the water.

They mark her on the forehead with this distinctive mark that looks like a kind of an upside down, um, ribbon that you’d wear. Yeah, I was just gonna say that. We might as well be blunt. Yeah, breast cancer awareness, whatever. Yeah,

Craig: right.

Todd: But then they give her a coin. And so she has a coin in her hand or they put it in her mouth or something as they sent her into this cave.

So, I guess in ancient times you didn’t have to dive under the water to get to this cave. Like you do now. Anyway, they send her into this cave, and there’s this gate that looks like it’s out of the video game, Myst.

Craig: Yes.

Todd: You know, with that same symbol over the top of it, and something happens to her, you know, she kind of falls off the raft, there’s a howling or whatever, and there’s a big struggle in the water, and blood comes up, and so you, you get there’s a monster.

She’s, they sacrificed her to this monster. I

Craig: get that, but what is James, so James Earl Jones is just trying to get, uh, So yeah, stealing he’s

Todd: yeah, well what I guess over time those coins have accumulated down there And so it seems like he’s been going down there and gathering those coins So he doesn’t necessarily know all about the monster, but he’s weird because we see him down there And he’s got explosives with him.

He goes out in the middle of the night with Babs, right? And they go rowing and he puts on his scuba gears and he dives so that he can get into the cave. You have to dive to get into the cave. He services inside and lights up the lights that he’s put in there and gathers up the coins for some reason. He brings the bag of coins with him and is, has plastic explosives that he opens up.

And this whole time he’s just. Talking to himself, but in very very dramatic ways like quotes I just figured he knew what he was getting into and he chose today to blow open the seal on this this gate So back in the early times this gate was just a big opening and now it’s it’s been Deliberately bricked up and so he mounts his plastic explosives on there and blows it up The explosion is so big that it causes waves to rock boats and splash water in the windows Everybody in town wakes up and hears it You see all these clips of that.

When we come back to the cave, we see that he’s blown out four bricks, very neatly punched out of this, this opening and, uh, smoke ominously. Yeah, fog

Craig: pours out all over the surface of the water.

Todd: And then it’s morning,

Craig: like, I have in my notes Big Monster. I feel like we get a glimpse of something like this.

We do,

Todd: but I guess, but he doesn’t, right? Like, he just leaves. He doesn’t go inside.

Craig: Yeah, I don’t know. That’s why I didn’t understand what he was doing. I didn’t either. Because I don’t understand a lot of it, like, Like, right after that, Madeline dreams of being sacrificed with that symbol on her head. We see, like, a flash in her dream of, like, a painting of a demon with a boner.

Yeah. All right. And that comes back later, but I have such random notes. The next scene, Babs, Barbara, comes over to her boyfriend, James Earl Jones, Fry, and he says, I thought I told you to get me a melon and a loaf of bread. And she says, Ugh. And she runs off. And then she comes back and gives him a melon and a loaf of bread.

What? He sets it down. And then, and then he says, he says, I didn’t tell you to bring a knife.

Todd: He says nobody cuts a watermelon with a knife and then he

Craig: punches it open

Todd: and eats watermelon like no person ever ate watermelon ever By like what the fuck is happening? The pieces of watermelon is the biggest mess in his head and that he just like reaches his fingers in and I don’t know I don’t know how you eat watermelon that way But I guarantee you, Mr.

James Earl Jones, Everybody cuts watermelon with a knife, Because your way is really stupid. They’re on the beach, by the way. They’re hanging on the beach! They’re just all hanging on the beach!

Craig: They’re just chillin right. Madeline is just lounging on a rock, staring, As she is playing. Prone to do, and Sherry walks up in Lake tries and makes small talk with her, and it’s like,

Clip: hi, you know you don’t have any strap marks at all, right?

Meditating TM Zen. I try to meditate for a while, but I kept, you know, finding myself thinking about where my khaki pants were, whether they went to the laundry or the cleaners, something.

Craig: Here we got you a present. Like, you must have had a bunch of birthdays, so here’s a birthday present. And she hands her, she hands her a wrapped present, and Madeline opens it.

Like, I don’t understand. It’s like when she is in this state that she’s never been a person before, like she, she doesn’t know anything. So, she opens it up and it’s perfume, and she opens it and smells it, and Sherry’s saying, Yeah, we didn’t know what you’d like, so we just got the most expensive one. And as soon as she says that, Madeline takes the bottle of perfume and just starts pouring it all over herself, like all over her face.

Face and shoulders and Sherry’s like, uh, that was expensive. What is happening? I don’t understand what is happening. What she steps out into the

Todd: water and then starts like touching herself. She’s like, uh, rubbing her chest and like, almost like she’s in ecstasy. And then Sherry is like, well, that was weird.

Just walks away. Neil, your sister’s acting a little strange. I mean, why are they all, why are they all hanging out on the beach? This is what I don’t understand. Well,

Craig: I mean, I guess Neil and Sherry are on vacation. Everything’s

Todd: cool now, like the guy, they hold his knife up. Yes, they found her. The dude blew open the ancient tomb and may or may not have seen a glimpse of a monster, and now it’s just the next day and well, you know, we gotta hang.

They’re all,

Craig: yeah. Well then, and then they go, they, and then they go boating, and they hit something. Oh God. James Earl Jones jumps in the water and like, finds some, like, guck on the propeller or whatever. But then he comes up and he’s like, yeah, we hit something. And Martin Kove’s like, we couldn’t have hit something.

My depth finder says we’re at like, 300 feet. We have just seen under the water, and we’ve seen the ocean floor. You need to have your depth finder checked, because you are max like 15 feet.

Todd: Yeah, you were maybe, maybe 12 feet, and that’s generous. James Earl Jones could almost have stood up next to the boat, and it would have touched the top of his head.

I thought he was gonna come back and say, no, you’re wrong, but he didn’t. I think that was just a big mistake. Oh, so funny. Now see, I was so into the movie at this point, because I could not believe how bad it was. That I was just rolling at all this stuff. And I couldn’t wait to see where it was going and absolutely was not disappointed.

So I don’t know, I just, I mean, I agree with you. The movie is stupid as hell. It doesn’t make any sense. But, for me, firmly in the, so head scratchingly bad, it’s good. And that the fact that these people are in this movie, like, Amplified that ten times for me. I just, I couldn’t wait. That’s fair. I couldn’t wait to see what was gonna come out of their mouths next.

And how it was gonna come out. And in what context. Cause the context keeps changing. Like why are these guys all friends all of a sudden? I, I just didn’t get it. I don’t know. It just, it sapped all of that mystery that they were supposedly building for the previous twenty minutes or so.

Craig: And it, again, I’ve said it a million times and I’ll keep saying it until we, I guess, but what is going on with Madeline?

I don’t understand. I don’t like she’s there because She’s an artist and she’s like restoring a painting or something and she tells the nun why why are there nuns? What? They just popped in suddenly. Yeah, there’s just there’s just randomly a

Todd: Monastery a

Craig: nunnery.

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: but she’s like Restoring this painting and she tells the nun well the first layer was just all fireplace soot But they thought that the image disappearing was a miracle, but no it was just fireplace soot, so I took that off She’s like but then I realized there was another layer underneath it And it was something else and then I realized there was another layer underneath that and it was something else all this builds I’m jumping around but I This was the part of the movie that killed me the most.

Eventually, she gets to the bottom lair. But she does so by peeling the ancient plastic film off of the painting. As though discovering that there was another lair meant that she was peeing. Peeling another plastic layer off of it. It’s

Todd: very clearly plastic.

Craig: I don’t know how they thought they were gonna get away with it.

Oh my

Todd: god The clear plastic edges are sticking out a little spatula tool slips right between those little plastic bits And she peels

Craig: it off like it’s like a film like a plastic film to reveal below it the demon with a boner and a Chicks sitting right in front of him like yeah, so she’s gonna have to blow this team and I think

Todd: I Couldn’t wait I was obvious I couldn’t wait cuz we knew the movie was gonna go there because it’s very cavalier and weird about nudity like I said earlier Then we get the scene with Babs where she goes to the beach and she just hangs By herself, and she’s got a boombox, and she sets it down, and she’s in 80s clothes, a crop top, got a lot of underboob there.

And, uh, she just starts exercising. Like, doing Jane Fonda’s workout on the beach. Leg lifts and things. Yeah, that’s weird. And pretty soon she turns it off and decides she’s gonna peel her top off. And I was like, is this really this kind of movie? The first 20 minutes, I wouldn’t have imagined this was this kind of movie.

But now, I just think this movie can be whatever movie it wants to be. Cause she peels her top off, and dives into the water. While a few of the townies from the, you know, from the cliffs up above come out and just stare. And she turns around and says, Pervert! Dirty

Clip: old Thought you gratefully liked little boys!

Oh my god.

Craig: Uh huh. Yeah. That’s what I’m talking about. It’s terrible. It’s terrible. But she, she was one of my favorites. She was very pretty and she was bubbly and funny. Yes. I enjoyed her and I enjoyed her energy. She

Todd: didn’t even belong in this movie, but yeah.

Craig: No, she did not belong in this movie. Not at all. And then, you know, she takes her top off and then it’s Jaws for about a minute.

Yes. And I actually thought, I thought that looks great. The underwater photography. All of it. Looked really, really good. Loved it. And, and she was filmed, you know, from like Monster or Shark POV from quite a distance. Like the camera was pretty deep in the water and she was some distance away and it was very clear.

The water there must be amazing. But I loved the underwater stuff, but she basically gets attacked, I think, kind of. And you kind of see it, I don’t remember. And then they find a dead girl, but the first dead girl they find isn’t even her, I think? Oh, it’s

Todd: so weird. They come back to town. This is so convoluted and strange.

The rest of them are on a boat while she’s been doing her thing. Because they just hang out on boats now. And they come back into the dock, and the mayor is there with a bunch of his guys. And the mayor tells them that a girl who went swimming has not returned. It’s And they were like, you’re not implying that the thing we hit with our boat was that girl.

And he’s like, all I’m telling you is that no boats are going to leave this dock. So now they are stranded on the island until this mystery gets solved. And then, yeah, like you said, uh, it turns out that they find a body, and it’s The woman that went missing, that went swimming.

Craig: But then they also immediately find Babs.

Yeah. Chopped up in pieces. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know, I don’t get it. The monster just

Todd: bit her a few times and then let her wash up on you.

Craig: Yeah, like, like chomped her feet off and spit them out. Ha, ha, ha,

Todd: ha, ha, ha, ha. The kids are all surrounding it, just staring at it until an adult comes by. Cause that’s what, that’s what kids do in movies like this.

And so then they do a funeral procession and they bury them and You know, as the procession goes through, there are these two wooden coffins, and they sit down, and the nuns are there saying their prayers, and whatever, and then the mayor comes stomping in with his guys, and he starts prying open a coffin, and that upsets the nuns, but they don’t intervene, and he insists on putting a coin in that woman’s mouth, and Some herbs or something over her.

And then he goes to do the same to the other coffin, which pisses off James Earl Jones character, who lunges at him, and he’s like, You keep your voodoo to your own people. But, he says this is important, you know, for Charon to, for her to have safe passage to the, the next world. This is What we do on the island.

We are like an hour into the movie now. It’s only an hour and a half. And I’m like, ugh. There’s no real mystery right now? Yeah, okay, there’s a monster. It’s been set loose. It killed these girls. And these islanders have their rituals, you know, which were from before, to protect them. So I’m just waiting for something to happen.

I mean, not that these girls getting attacked wasn’t something, but god, it’s an hour into the movie. And then what? Is it just gonna be more Jaws? Like, just people keep going out of the water, keep getting eaten? Like, James Earl Jones apparently doesn’t know about the monster. The only person who seems to know about the monster is Loony Madeline, who’s just staring off into space all the time.

Craig: I don’t get it! What is happening? Like, is Okay, so James Earl Jones just casually mentions at some point that she’s a virgin. How and why he would know that, I have no idea. She’s acting all weird. Are we supposed to think that she’s, like, drawn to this Monster or something? It, it, it doesn’t make any kind of sense.

Todd: The next thing that happens is that they’re back out on the boat again, and James Earl Jones decides to go diving while Neil and Sherry are hanging on the boat. And Neil’s saying, you know, I’m gonna go after him, and Sherry’s like, you know what they said about diving? Like, who the f cares? This guy’s been diving three or four times since we’ve joined them, right?

But he’s like, no, I’m gonna do it anyway. So he dives after James Earl Jones. I keep calling him that because we never really find out his name. He’s like Mr. It’s Fry. Fry? Yeah. So he goes in to the cave and they have a very bizarre confrontation.

Craig: What the hell? I did not James Earl Jones like holds a spear up to his Neck or something.

I have in my notes. Why is he mad? I thought they were friends. What is happening? He tells him he says Madeline brought him there And he tells Neil that he and Sherry should leave because something got to Madeline and I don’t have any ideas So they go to the convent to look for her and I have in my notes So, why does Martin Kove wear a string as a belt?

Both laugh. It bothered me. His belt is a shoestring.

Todd: It seemed very hot there. I wanted to know why suddenly he was wearing jeans but no t shirt. I thought maybe he should at least be in shorts or something.

Craig: My notes don’t even make sense. I say they look for Madeline at the convent, but a nun tells them they have to leave because Madeline has entered something?

And then they, they go outside and they’re calling her name and she’s hiding behind a rock, but she doesn’t answer. The camera

Todd: pans over dramatically and she’s like on the next mountaintop, almost like she’s curled up hiding, but also spaced out just laying there. And I, It’s so laugh out loud funny. And then they, it seems like they kind of stopped looking for her for a while, because now Madeline is no longer a concern.

We get some kids who are on some rocks by the waterside, who are playing their game. This is the same group of kids we’ve been seeing over and over again. And one of them draws that symbol on the girl’s forehead. I don’t know, how old are they? They’re like, ranged from Twelve, I don’t know. And they do some skipping.

In a circle around on those rocks, which already looks pretty dangerous. I think it’s the girl’s mother just pops in. It just happens to be a few rocks away all of a sudden and calls out to her. And it’s like, no, no, I don’t know. It’s not English, but she’s yelling out at them and she starts to make her way across the rocks to them.

And the girl who again, probably about 12. I

Craig: couldn’t figure that out. I think that she was going in the water. You think she jumped? No, I think the boys pushed her. I don’t know if she was in or not. Maybe she was. But I think the boys pushed her. intended her to go in the water. I think this, this was a sacrifice.

It’s the same symbol that they used the sacrifice

Todd: before. That’s what I was thinking.

Craig: Maybe they’re playacting it, I guess.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: But I didn’t think it was an accident. I mean, why would the mom be freaking out?

Todd: Maybe. Well, I mean, you’d be, you’d be freaking out if your kid slipped. If your

Craig: kid was playing on a cliff, I guess.

Todd: But what freaked me out was the girl falls into the water and there’s an underwater shot of like, Her boobs. Oh, I didn’t notice that you didn’t notice that. I was like what why do we have child nudity in this movie? I mean, it was only about two seconds long which made it all the more unnecessary. It was just like her top was half off What I don’t need to see this 12 year old girl’s boobs and then she surfaces and her shirts back on and I thought Did they insert a shot here?

Maybe. Did they like I honestly

Craig: missed it.

Todd: Oh, we needed to put some more boobs in here somewhere, so we’re gonna choose the 12 year old? I don’t know, cause it was, it was shocking. I can’t believe you missed it, dude.

Craig: Well, I’m not upset that I Like, that’s fine. But somehow, James Earl Jones is there, and he jumps in and saves the girl.

From the underwater demon, that we get a full shot of at this point, this is, I think, there’s one point for like one second that you get a full shot of it. And it just looks like a guy in a creature from the Black Lagoon type suit. And it seems like Fry sees it, but he never says anything about it.

Todd: Well he does, because the mother leaps in as well, or falls in, I can’t remember which.

Craig: Yeah, it gets the mom.

Todd: It gets the mom, it chomps her. Actually, that’s You know, again, it’s like an underwater, kind of like a brief chomp on her. It’s got jaws, right? But at times it looks like a horse’s mouth, at other times it looks kind of more demonic with fangs, and I feel like it changed from time to time, but I don’t know.

Craig: You didn’t see much of it. I

Todd: thought Fry saw it get the mom. I was, I was positive of that.

Craig: I don’t know. I remember blood in the water. The mayor threatens James Earl Jones, and then James Earl Jones gets He’s about to tell them about the demon, I think, and then he passes out.

Todd: Well, this is at this happy festival.

Like, suddenly, after all this stuff went down, and all this ominous shit, Now it’s that stereotypical, Oh, look, the old folk village is having their happy festival. And I’m like, guys, somebody’s mother just died. This was literally the next day. And they’re just having this happy festival like nothing happened?

As opposed to that funeral that they had a while back when the last person died? Yeah, and he pops down and he says some really bad dialogue. You know, we should probably talk about James Earl Jones a little bit while we go through this.

Craig: Well, he’s fine. He just doesn’t have much to do. What’s, what was interesting to me is I don’t know that I had ever seen him in anything at this age.

And I always think of him as being a portly man, a big guy. And he is. He’s kind of barrel chested. He’s a big guy. But he’s younger and

Todd: Surprisingly fit in this movie.

Craig: Yeah, leaner. And I don’t think that I had ever noticed, and I don’t know, this may be colorization or something, but he’s got, in this movie, these beautiful blue eyes.

And it was just He’s one of those guys that ever since I remember him. He’s old. He’s always been an older guy. Yeah, so to see him Younger it was cool. It was cool to see him at a different stage of his life Yeah, it was

Todd: fun. And you’re right. I think his theatrical training comes through here again Maybe you know being an earlier film or something like that But it just feels a little too Presentational for the close ups that we get on him and the long shots of him in these conversations Transcribed And I could tell, too, not not just with him, but with all the actors, I could tell they were cutting around performances quite a bit.

Craig: Oh yeah.

Todd: There’s an awful lot of off screen delivered dialogue, you know, where two characters are talking and the camera’s always on the person who’s listening. But yeah, this he’s drunk, and he He doesn’t quite tell them what’s going on. By the way, these two are no longer interested in looking for their sister, apparently.

They just want to sit and enjoy the festival and have fun.

Craig: And it’s, the festival is just shady, and like, the, the boner demon, somebody dressed as the boner demon shows up, and like, that, the little girl that was thrown in as part of the, the ceremony, and, It’s all just very shady. It feels like the end of the Wicker Man, but I feel like we just need to get to the end because all of this is inconsequential.

Like, I didn’t get it. We cut back to the nuns. Are the nuns worshipping the demon? Are they scared of the demon? Does the demon attack them? Because then a bloody nun stumbles into town. Then they go to the convent and there’s a bunch of dead nuns and that black goo is all around. So I guess

Todd: That was so hilarious, by the way.

The nun massacre. I just

Craig: couldn’t get over

Todd: how silly it was. Like, they’re literally, like, one’s slumped over a chair, one seems to be stuck to the wall somehow, the other one’s laying on the floor.

Craig: And then, who says this? I have in my notes, in quotes, So, little virgin’s finally gonna give up herself. What?

Who says that? That sounds like something James Earl Jones would say.

Todd: Yeah, I think he said it.

Craig: And, okay, and so then Madeline somehow is on a boat, underwater, in the cave, with the symbol on her forehead, and then she lays on the rock slab, puts a coin in her mouth, and starts just f ing

herself just writhing in ecstasy

Todd: Oh, I thought the demon was there boning her but then later you just oh, I

Craig: I thought first No, I thought for sure she was getting eaten out for sure Only in her mind. Oh my God. It was insane. Oh God. And then Neil is like, shows up in some scuba gear looking for her and he gets to her and she screams like, I don’t know.

Todd: Suddenly it’s raining inside the cave.

Craig: Oh my God.

Todd: Dude. I could not contain myself. I was. On the floor at this point, I was having so much fun with this movie. So yeah, there’s a big battle kind of thing. And Frye, I guess it’s like, go, go, you must go. And he’s got a big wad of his plastic explosives. Yeah.

That he had put together to come in and they swim out. Neil saves his sister. They swim out and then he gets attacked by the demon. And did the demon chomp his crotch?

Craig: I don’t know. I just have the demon chomps Frye, but it looks so bad. Like. It looks like a cheap Halloween mask, um, in this shot, like you can almost see the plastic of the neck like flapping.

Todd: But just for a split second. Yeah,

Craig: just for, it’s very, very brief. You barely see the demon at all. And so then he blows up the cave and

Todd: And himself and himself

Craig: in it, right. Which And Neil and Sherry and Madeline leave, and Neil has that bag of coins, I guess, and he just jumps them in the ocean and then that’s it.

No, no,

Todd: no, no, no. That’s the end of it. No, no, no, no, no. Right after that. Right after that, before they take off, Neil and his sister embrace and have a moment on the boat where she leans in and kisses him a little too passionately for a brother.

Craig: I must have been looking at the clock. Because I don’t remember that.

Todd: Yeah, that was weird. I did a double take. And it almost seemed like Martin Cove also did a double take because there’s this weird look on his face when she goes by. And then it cuts to the next morning. When, like you said, they take off on a boat away from the island. He dumps the coins into the ocean, and everything’s fine, which takes a little bit of the fun and mystery out of an ancient demon when all anyone ever needed to do is get down there and blow it up.

I guess it’s not so supernatural. Oh,

Craig: yeah, I mean, I just, I, I couldn’t find anything really to enjoy. Honestly, James Earl Jones in it. I Felt like what why are you here? Yes You are too good to be in this movie, but I get it. That’s another thing that I respect about him. He was I said before he was humble.

He was also a working actor. Like he did commercials and he did document like he, the man worked. And so this is early in his career. I’m he’s

Todd: in a lot of stuff

Craig: and he has done a lot of stuff. He’s done voice for animation and video games and all kinds of stuff. And. So I, whether, you know, maybe this was just for a check and if it was just for a check, that’s great.

Or whether it was just for the opportunity, just for the opportunity to do what it appears that he really loved to do and was really good at.

Todd: It’s early in his career, too.

Craig: Yeah, either way, good for you. If you want to get nostalgic about James Earl Jones, watch one of his good movies. Don’t watch

Todd: this. I don’t know, man.

I would say, If you want to see a young, fit James Earl Jones, early in his career,

Craig: Yeah, it’s true. I don’t think

Todd: you’re gonna find a movie with so much of him in it. And he’s shirtless in a lot of it too. I mean, it’s Right. That’s true. And it’s in a beautiful location. It’s not an ugly movie to watch. I don’t know, man.

I’m I kind of had a very different feel of the movie than you did. I thought this was so bad it was good. Every bit of it As the longer it went on, the less sense it made, and the more silly it was. But I still loved watching these people kind of do their thing as ridiculous as their thing that they ended up doing was.

If they had been unknown actors, I might have felt differently. You know? But we’re talking Three Oscar winners Of former Miss USA Beautiful people in a beautiful location in a whack a doodle movie true. I think it’s worth the watch I think you should seek it out and the guy who Produced this and co wrote it.

His name is Nico Mastarakis. Have you ever heard that name? I don’t know. I don’t think so. This is like a blind spot in horror history for me But this is an independent producer who’s greek who’s done a lot of things You Like, I think he’s a bit of a self promoter, so, you know, take that for what it’s worth, but he has his name splashed over a lot of out there, independent films that I think are very cult and a lot of people like.

And I feel like we’re going to be returning back to this guy at some point. with one of his other movies, and I’m kind of surprised we haven’t hit them yet. He, back in 1974, watched Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and apparently was so taken by it and its popularity that he’s like, well, I’m just gonna make another movie that’s more violent and more disgusting so I can make a bunch of money.

And he shot a movie called Island of Death on another Greek island, and I guess it’s notorious. I don’t know about it, but the more I was reading about it, the more I thought, you know, We should probably put this in a rotation somewhere and visit a little bit more of this guy’s movies. Cause, for what they’re worth, you know, they’re kind of interesting.

The fact that you could get all these actors in this movie is kind of surprising and says something, I guess. But uh, man, I have notes about the song over the credit sequence, but I guess you probably just shut it off by then, huh? Or you weren’t paying attention? I

Craig: actually, well, I, no, I did turn it off, but I did hear the first part of it and I’m like, oh, that sounds like a good song.

And it, and it, it sounded kind of familiar, I thought maybe, but. No, I slammed the computer shut.

Todd: I, I listened to it and I was listening to the lyrics and I was like, Oh my god, it’s kind of like the movie. It’s, it’s like a pastiche of early 80s songs that you would expect to hear, but not necessarily in a movie like this, something a little more poppy, but then the words are so lame.

You know, they’re like something about the past, something about the future. And I want to sail with you to our next destination forever. It

Clip: sounded catchy, but at the same time,

Craig: it seemed tonally completely off. Like, Oh yeah. Yeah. Completely. I think you put this at the end of

Todd: the wrong movie. Yes! Exactly!

That’s why I loved it. And I found out information about it. It was written by Shuki Levy, who, if you don’t know who this guy is, he wrote thousands of theme songs for children’s cartoons. And scores for them. So we’re talking He Man, She Ra, the World Ghostbusters, Inspector Gadget, Power Rangers. He’s the guy behind the music in most of those.

Nice. Nice. And he was married, at the time, to Debra Shelton, who played Madeline.

Craig: Oh.

Todd: And she’s the one singing.

Craig: Oh! I didn’t know that either.

Todd: But James Earl Jones, man, what more can you say?

Craig: No, again, you know, we’ve done this so many times, I say the same thing every single time, but He’s gone, that’s sad, but Him, even more so than a lot of the people that we’ve talked about.

This guy is, his legacy is cemented. He, he, he’s a legend. He’s a John Wayne. He’s an Elvis Presley. He’s James Dean. People are going to know his name for a really, really, really long time. What more can you hope for really?

Todd: Never had a controversy, never had a bout with drugs and alcohol, never was difficult to work with or anything like that, just everybody spoke glowingly about him.

And, and, you know, that’s how he came across on the screen, too. Just, uh, an actor very serious about his craft, but also having fun with it, and, uh, just seemed like a genuinely nice person that the world’s gonna miss. Well, thank you for joining us again for another tribute episode here on Two Guys in a Chainsaw.

We have our Halloween October season coming up, and we have a lineup that we think you’re really gonna enjoy. Please stick around for that. If you have friends who are into horror or who endure Halloween, or should I give a little preview if you have kids and are looking for a horror movies for your kids, we’re going to be covered more than a couple of those.

So, uh, if you know anybody like this, send them word of our podcast. You can send them to ChainsawHorror. com or just have them type in Two guys and a chainsaw podcast so that they can subscribe to us on their favorite podcasting platform Because we’re really looking forward to, uh, to Halloween this year.

Also, uh, for our patrons behind the scenes, we’re going to have a few extra special minisodes for the Halloween season, as we usually do. If you’re interested in joining the crowd, go to patreon. com slash ChainsawPodcast and look to sign up. Five bucks a month gets you access to all those minisodes, our Christopher Pike book club, the mini reviews we do, conversation with us behind the scenes.

and also influence over which requests we will do on the show. Patreon. com slash Chainsaw Podcast. Until next time, I’m Todd. And

Craig: I’m Craig.

Todd: With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

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          This week, we are delighted to be joined by another guest and devoted listener, Jules O’Brian, to discuss her choice of the 2022 Danish-Dutch psychological horror thriller, Speak No Evil.

Be warned, friends: The laughs may be bright and carefree, but the movie is about as dark as they come. We follow the harrowing journey of a sweet little family as they visit the home of another family they met while on vacation in Tuscany. This month, an American remake hits the theaters, and we’re dying to see if and how it shakes things up.

Jules is a comedian currently touring around the UK. You can find her current touring schedule on her website, or catch up with her shenanigans from the comfort of your own home on her monthly podcast, Avoid Excessive Cleavage. Thanks for joining us on the show, Jules! The pleasure was all ours.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptSpeak No Evil (2022)Episode 407, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Two Guys and a Chainsaw. I’m Todd,

Craig: and I’m Craig.

Todd: And joining us today for the first time is loyal listener, Jules. Jules, say hi to the people out there.

Jules: Hello everybody. This is a dream come true.

Todd: We’re so happy to have you on, you know, you reached out to us and said that you were a fan of the podcast.

Now you’re based out of the UK, right?

Jules: That’s right. Yeah. I’m in, uh, I’m in Birmingham. So slap bang in the center of the UK and, uh, and yeah, I travel around all over the place. Cause my, my job is I work as a standup comedian. So yeah, I travel all over the country and I discovered you guys, Oh gosh, not very long ago, really probably only about.

I think probably about three months ago, and I think I’ve, I’ve listened to nearly, I’ve listened to more of the podcasts that you podcast episodes that you have recorded than I haven’t, if you know what I mean. So it’s kind of, it’s bordering on obsessive.

Todd: Oh, that’s So flattering, I have to say. I’m sure you have some very boring nights. They must be especially boring if you’re resorting to listening to us.

Jules: It’s fabulous. It’s great. Honestly, I’ll be driving down the motorway and, you know, it’ll be sort of a three hour drive or something, and I’ll be thinking, Oh, God, I just want to get home.

And I’ll be, you’ll be making me laugh as I’m driving. It’s brilliant. I absolutely love it. So thank you so much for that, for the entertainment. It’s been an absolute godsend finding you. Seriously, it’s Well,

Craig: you’re kind, I very much appreciate your kind words and I am like immediately charmed by your accent.

So, I’m blushing, I’m blushing. That’s a brilliant place

Jules: to start. I’m so pleased. Seriously, this is like a little party for me. I’m all set up. I’ve got a glass of wine. It’s fabulous. Oh, nice. I’m just having the best time ever.

Todd: It’s evening time for Craig and I’ve had probably six or seven beers, but that’s been over the course of like seven hours.

I, I I just got off a really long board gaming session with some friends, we’re really big nerds.

Craig: Oh my gosh, you and the board games. Yeah, this was I think, Todd, I think you may have a problem with board games. I may. It could be. It could

Todd: be. Well,

Jules: I love that you pick on Todd for the, for the, the board game situation, but I’ve just said I’ve got a glass of wine and that just gets to me.

Breezed over, that’s fine, that’s not a problem. Are

Todd: you kidding me? I would, I would bet 50 50 roll the dice that Craig has a mimosa in his hand right now, and it’s like early in the morning for him.

Craig: I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Todd: Yeah, that’s right. Moving on, moving on. Anyway,

Jules: well,

Todd: we were so flattered that you reached out to us and so interested to chat with you, and since you’re no stranger to speaking into a microphone for Hours on End, we thought it would be lovely, lovely to have you on the show, and, uh, do Movie that you chose and you chose a few and I think it was more Craig that was narrowing it down with you But he and I chatted and I think we ended up among the three of us settling on 2022’s speak no evil directed by Christian Toftrup.

I believe right. It’s a Danish movie And, uh, I’m gonna butcher all of these Dutch and Danish names 100%. I think one of the reasons we really honed in on this is that it has an American remake coming up this month, in fact. So, you suggested it, and I’ll tell you right off the bat, I had never heard of it before.

And, uh, so of course I’d never seen it, so I was very interested in checking it out. Craig, did had you seen this before?

Craig: Oh boy. All right. Storytime. What? I had seen it before and I remembered it being really dark. I was doing other stuff yesterday and I didn’t really get around to watching it. And I told my partner, Alan, I’m like, you may have to watch this movie with me.

And he wasn’t happy about it.

Jules: Oh,

Craig: and then we, we, we sat down to watch it together and we watched the first 10 minutes. And he was like, you’ve already made me watch

Jules: this. Oh,

Craig: no!

Jules: Oh, can I apologize to Alan? I feel like I know what this is about. So,

Craig: Alan, I’m so sorry. He’ll never hear that, but I’ll for him.

That’s true. So, we had to Stop. I was like, I’m not gonna make you and like I made him kind of prove it. Like yeah. Well what happens? And he started telling me I’m like Yeah, I guess I did make you watch it.

Todd: You didn’t remember. So we had to,

Craig: no, I remembered, I just didn’t remember. I’m shocked. I probably sold, I probably sold it to him the first time, the way that I tried to sell it to him this time too.

I’m like, it’s not, you know, like a monster movie, you know, it’s not that type of horror. It’s like a thriller, like, like a psychological thriller. Cause he gets into stuff like that. And it is. So I didn’t make him watch it again, but that meant then that I had to get up super early this morning to watch it first thing in the morning.

Oh,

Todd: so you just came off it fresh.

Craig: So, yeah, yeah, I just finished watching it like a half an hour ago. And, yeah, I, Jules, I’m with you, like, I had forgotten how dark it was. I was like,

Jules: Yeah.

Craig: Oh my God. This is horrible.

Jules: When you just said that you’d forgotten that you’d seen it, I’m surprised by that because it’s one of those movies that I don’t know.

I mean, I find that quite a lot of horror movies I’ll watch and I’ll enjoy them in the moment. And then they’re pretty much, you know, they can be a little bit disposable, can’t they

Todd: sometimes?

Jules: This is one of those that has stayed with me, you know, although what I will say is I had forgotten the very, very ending of it, you know, after the, the, the, the brutal scene in the car, after that scene, I’d forgotten that there was another brutal scene after that one.

I think cause I was so shocked by the brutality of the, The first one. So yeah, but I am surprised that you’d kind of money. Perhaps you blocked it out because it was just, that’s what I was going to say.

Craig: I wonder if it’s like selective memory. Like it really is. As soon as the movie was over this morning, I felt a little sick.

Like, that’s terrible. And yeah, we’ve, we’ve watched and talked about other, Movies that had a similar effect. Like it reminded me quite a bit of funny games

Jules: and

Craig: creep a little bit,

Jules: the strangers a little

Craig: bit. Um, Todd, you and I did that movie home movie. Do you remember that one? Where like the kids evil. It gave me all of those vibes.

It was just very dark and very disturbing and maybe more upsetting than the typical horror movie, because the scenario is something that any normal person would do. Could fall into now, I wouldn’t because I don’t trust or like people , so I

Jules: would

Craig: never .

Jules: Well, this is kind of

Craig: the

Jules: message I would never, the movie, I think, isn’t it?

The message is trust no one. Everyone’s an asshole. Oh my God. Is what they’re

Todd: saying. I, I have to tell you personally, I, I don’t gravitate towards movies like these. Tend to, and this is also where Craig and I, uh, uh, differ a bit, you know, in what we have historically watched movies for when we were growing up.

Particularly, we talk about this a lot. Like, I really liked watching horror movies because they were silly. You know, I, I grew up in the eighties and we would go to the video store, we would try to pick the worst looking movies on the shelf so that we could sit around and we could laugh at ’em. So my expectations were really low.

Keeping in mind also, I really love Halloween. I love being scared. I love going through, you know, haunted houses and things like that. And so I do want to watch movies that scare me. But ultimately, at the end of the day, you know, I want to be entertained. And horror movies are not something I go to when I want to have to think a lot and come away with this, this deep message.

And so movies like this can go one of two ways for me. Either I feel like they’re so mean spirited, and brutal and bleak and nihilistic that you just walk away and you just feel sick and you feel gross and, I don’t know, I need to like pop in Super Mario Bros. or something like that to like cleanse myself of This idea that, you know what, the world can actually be a really shitty place for a lot of people, and horrible people do horrible things to each other, and it’s not something I necessarily want to be reminded of.

You know?

Jules: Mm hmm. Let alone Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Todd: In kind of an entertainment form. And so, even with the torture porn era, and those kind of movies coming out, generally speaking, like, what you’re seeing on screen is pretty brutal and gross and mean, but in general, most of those are still rather silly in their concept, or whatever.

But these movies, like, you just rattle them off, Craig, you know, like funny games and this and whatnot. They’re all too real. I was actually thinking of the vanishing. Have you guys ever seen that? Yes. Mm hmm. That’s it.

Jules: Is that the one that was originally French and then there was a remake of it in the early nineties?

Is that right? Yes. Yeah, I know. Yeah,

Todd: that might have been the first movie I ever watched that was so bleak and had an ending that was dark and didn’t turn out well for anyone that really, really unsettled me and bothered me. And I was thinking about that a lot when I watch this movie because once again, it’s it’s this case of these people who are on a vacation and they’re having a good time and they just stumble into a situation through it.

Yeah. Well, in The Vanishing, it’s almost just they’re no fault of their own. It’s just these bad, random things happen to people. In this case, like you said, Jules, the message of the movie seems to be like, maybe we’re too trusting of people and maybe we’re, we’re trying too hard to be polite. Yeah. Yeah. And so just to sum up my thoughts, like, I don’t hate this movie then.

You know, I, I don’t like a movie that’s just mean spirited and bleak. I’m like, wasn’t that awful. This movie does have a message as bleak as it is. And, and it’s as troublesome as it is. So, uh, I feel like it’s a, it’s a nice bit of art and there are a lot of nice things you can say about it. Even though I would warn people, if you’re already turned off by the topics we’re talking about right now, you’re probably going to want to give this one a hard pass.

Jules: Yeah. I think there’s probably something in that, but it is, I think this is such a good example of, of people not wanting to offend anybody, you know, and it gets taken to that ridiculous extreme. Cause I’ve, I’ve read some comments about it online with people saying things like, Oh, it’s so ridiculous as if you’d stand for that as if you put up with people behaving like that.

But I think it, when I read people commenting things like that, it made me think of, um, You know, the theory of if you put a frog directly into boiling water, it will jump out immediately. Of course it will. But if you put a frog into normal, you know, room temperature water and then slowly heat it up, it will stay in the water and die.

And it’s that kind of idea, isn’t it? You know, these people that are the, you know, the baddies, in inverted commas in the film, they don’t start out as being these idiots. sort of evil, dreadful people if they did, if their behavior was at the beginning of the film, as it is towards the end of the film, or, you know, certainly when it reaches that climactic point, you’d have run a million miles away.

You would have never engaged in conversation with them, but they, they almost groomed, don’t they? I guess that’s the term they groomed. Certainly Bjorn, the main So I found it a really interesting watch from that point of view. Just how much will people take? Although I’ll be honest. There were also times when I was going, don’t go back.

That’s ridiculous.

Craig: Okay. So, yeah, I, I, I agree with you and I love that analogy. I think I’ve heard that before, but it does make a lot of sense. But there were just so many points in this movie where I couldn’t rationalize it. Like, I can’t rationalize why you’re saying, just leave. Like, you don’t have any connection to these people.

It’s not even your family. Like, just go. Never speak to them again. Like, why is this a problem? They are strangers to you.

Todd: You

Craig: know what

Todd: though? I think everyone kind of falls on a different spectrum. And it probably depends on how, where they’ve grown up. Or, you know, how they were raised or whatever. My family, you know, I had a very idyllic childhood.

Both of my parents, we didn’t experience real stress. We never had real problems. And, uh, we were all have remained a very happy and loving family. And so we have just skidded about life. And most of our encounters are very. Friendly and normal and happy and we were raised most of our lives in the Midwest where everyone is polite to each other I mean, this isn’t a generalization, but you know compared to New York City or something like that People walking up and down the street and they say hi to each other and we We greet strangers we smile at them.

Craig: We wave to each other from the car Like if you pass them Like if you’re driving and you pass somebody walking, you wave at them. It’s

Todd: ridiculous. We’re weird. And, and since, since I’ve moved abroad, you know, and I’ve been abroad a couple of different times and I do a lot of traveling, you know, I got to learn that most of the world is not like that.

There’s a spectrum, but most of the Americans in particular, I think have a sort of a reputation around the world for being, Overly friendly, overly sharing of their personal lives and things. You could sit next to a guy on a bus and we want to start up a conversation with them and pretty soon they know all about the last ten years and what we’re doing and who our family is and where we’ve been and all this stuff.

And I think people are, at best, amused by that, at worst, turned off and annoyed by it. Like, what in the, why in the world are you talking to me? So. So. Um. I get that, and so I kind of put myself in place, and you know, the Todd of 20 years ago wouldn’t have probably acted like this guy 100%, but he was very much of this mindset.

You know, I want, and still the Todd of today, really in a social situation wants everybody to be having a good time, and I will take some hits just to make sure that nobody else is offended or nobody else is having a bad time. So, I do kind of get how this can happen, and I have Only recently come around to this point where I need to be a little bit more like just like no, you’re a stranger I owe you nothing and this is weird and I goodbye I’m not gonna have anything to do with you and I’m not gonna feel bad about saying that

Jules: Yeah, I think I’ve got I’ve had very very similar thoughts and feelings about this movie exactly what you’ve just said really But I think my issue with it is, like you say, you’re happy to take some hits when it’s concerning you.

You know, if people are having a good time, or I don’t want to be the party pooper and look like I haven’t got a sense of humor or whatever, or I don’t want to offend anybody. Um, but as soon as it starts to affect your children, I think that’s when, for me, that was the point when I suddenly, you know, I mean, I’m, I am a very non confrontational person.

And I will do everything Anything to avoid an argument with somebody. I just want to keep people happy. But I think if the kind of situations that arise in the movie happened in real life, I would very quickly learn how to punch somebody in the face. Yeah.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah. Gosh. I hate to be this guy, but I feel like we need to like give the, because I want to talk about those things.

Like

Todd: when you say,

Craig: when it starts, when it starts to affect the kids. I 100 percent agree and I want to get there, but I feel like I, we need to give the setup. Okay. So right?

Jules: Like

Craig: this, this normal couple, what are their names? Bjorn and Louise. Yeah. And, and they’ve got a daughter, Agnes, and they’re just on vacation and they meet another couple about their age who has a kid about their age.

And that’s Patrick and Karen. And, Patrick and Karen seem like normal and fun or whatever and they have a kid and the kids hang out together. And when they’re done with the vacation, Patrick’s like, you guys should totally come visit us. And they’re like, okay, whatever. And then they go back home, Bjorn and Louise go back home, and tell their friends, yeah, we met this couple, and they’re like, you should come visit us, but we’re probably not going to.

And their friend’s like, no, you totally should! It’ll be great! Well,

Todd: in fact, one of their friends says, it would kind of be rude not to, wouldn’t it? Don’t they? Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.

Craig: And somebody, and somebody says, what’s the worst that can happen. You guys, you guys, that is my headspace. My headspace is always, what is the worst that could happen?

And that’s, and that’s why I would never. I would never, like, I don’t care how, like we click on vacation. We have a great time on vacation. That’s great. I am not coming to your house to stay there for several days. I

Jules: saw part of one of the trailers for the remake that is, that you mentioned is coming out very soon.

One of the actors that was in that, I think it’s the, the lady who’s playing, The Karen character and she said well I think probably the moral of this film is never hang out with vacation friends after the vacation.

Perfect.

Todd: I mean, yeah. My point here is that we can delude ourselves in the moment into thinking we know somebody better than we do. Or that we are friendlier with them when we do. And that you were so susceptible to that on vacation. You can spend an intense week with a group of people, and you feel like you’re best friends, and then when you walk away, you never think of it again, and you realize, yeah, I didn’t really know anything about those people.

Honestly, even the time we had together wasn’t that amazing. It was just that we were together for an intense period of

Craig: time. That’s my favorite part about it. Is that you get to, like, hang out and have fun with these people, knowing that you’re never gonna talk to them again. So, so, you can just totally be Yourself and like, you

Jules: can pretend to be somebody completely different,

Craig: right?

Or crazy or crazy, which is what this way to

Todd: bring us back.

Craig: Yeah. They take their child. To go stay at these people’s house. And that’s another thing. Like, I remember when I was a kid and I would get to go on vacation to like, spend a week with my cousins and we didn’t really have anything planned or anything.

We would just hang out and ride our bikes and play. And that was great. It was a great vacation. I can’t imagine as an adult, just going to somebody’s house to just hang out.

Todd: Yeah,

Craig: it’s weird. Like, I don’t know, but it was

Todd: another, it’s another country granted. It’s only an eight hour drive, but you know, they were like, we’re going to show you the Danish countryside.

You know, our son is really looking forward to your visit, which immediately sounds like a lie because their son barely talked and was super shy the whole time. He doesn’t

Craig: talk at all.

Todd: Well.

Craig: Because he has no tongue!

Todd: They don’t know that at first.

Jules: That’s true, that’s true. They find that out later, don’t they?

I looked this up as well, by the way. I’ve been a proper geek about this. He mentions the condition that apparently they say that the child has been born with. And I thought, is that, is it actually real? You know, is that a condition that exists? And it is. I can’t, I can’t find in my notes now what he says it’s called.

Congenital aglossia.

Craig: It’s a condition.

Jules: Yeah, that’s it. There are, there are only 11 people in the world known, recorded people, 11 people in the world living with that condition. Really? So that would be a pretty weird thing to go and, you know, to just stumble across this family and the child happens to have that.

Although, of course, they wouldn’t know that at the time, but, um, yeah, I just thought that was an interesting little, little bit of info. Yeah, 11 people in the whole world haven’t got a tongue or born without one. That’s

Todd: crazy, but they don’t tell them that at first and what I really liked about the movie was that it immediately I mean, you know, you’re watching a horror film so you were immediately expecting to be scared But yeah, I thought the film did a really good job of instilling this sense of dread from the very beginning Some of that came from the music And some of it, I mean, having pretty recently reviewed The Shining, I thought this actually copped a bit of style from that, especially in the earlier stages.

Yes!

Jules: Oh god, yes!

Todd: Yeah.

Jules: That’s so true, that journey in the car at the very beginning.

Todd: Yeah, very long still shots that were extremely wide that didn’t move, and mostly it’s just nature or, you know, the house and things like that. It was pretty creepy.

Jules: Yeah,

Craig: it hadn’t occurred to me, but I did have something, yeah, about the score in my notes and I hadn’t made that connection, but I definitely agree.

Sorry, I started talking and then thank you for establishing. But I think what, what bothered me Was that I understand that when we meet new people, and especially if we have no connection to them, maybe they say something a little off and we’re just like, You’ll let that go. Cause who cares, whatever. I just feel like there are so many red flags.

Jules: Yeah.

Craig: So, so, so many, and maybe not. I, even though I just watched it hours ago, I don’t remember so much if on their vacation, there were those huge red flags, but as soon as they go to visit them, then there are like, but they’re rather small. The very first thing. The, the mom, well, I mean, they, they seem nice and hospitable or whatever, but the very first thing that happens is they come, they’re like, Oh, we cooked you dinner, we roasted a hog.

She had made a whole point. She was a vegetarian and she had explained to them why, like it was a whole thing. It wasn’t just a casual, like, Oh, sorry, I’m a vegetarian. And that’s the end of it. No, they had had a huge conversation about it. And then she shows up and he’s like,

Clip: Louise, is this for you? Oh no, no,

Craig: that that’s

Clip: fine.

I insist. I insist. No, no. I’ll wait till the It’s my favorite part of the roast. It’s delicious. It’s crispy and soft at the same time. Yes. How would I feel? Yeah. What? What’s happening? Let’s go. It’s good, right? Very good.

Jules: She just accepts it. She, she takes hold of the fork and goes, Oh, okay, then I’ll have some of the wild boar that I, you know, just like crazy.

I mean, both of my daughters are vegetarian. And if I did that, they, they’d tell me exactly where to go. You know, if I tried to say to them, Oh, here you are. Just have some of this roast beef that I’ve cooked. It won’t do. Come on. It’s really nice. It’ll do you good. They would not stand for that for one second, but that was what.

It did start to annoy me, kind of, and I thought, is that part of the whole message? You know, are we supposed to feel like that? Are we supposed to be aware that she’s not standing up for herself?

Todd: Number one, I think, I think this is a cultural thing. The director himself, in some interviews, said that he was surprised that this movie translated across cultures because he said, this is such a thing that we Scandinavians, you know, that we, that we deal with.

Dutch, Danish, we are very, very constrained by this polite society, and we are never wanting to step on anyone’s toes. You know, I lived in Japan for three years, and the same kind of things can happen there. People will acquiesce to things that they are very uncomfortable about doing, just because they have been trained, you know, to keep the peace and to not say no.

And so

Craig: Yeah. Always. That’s, that’s not . I, I understand that, you know, in different cultures, you know, you’re, but that’s not an American thing too. Like, yeah, if I go to somebody’s house and they serve me dinner and it’s something that I don’t like, I will still eat and be polite about it. But it, but if I have.

If I have told them in advance, I’m a vegetarian and I have specific reasons for being a vegetarian and then they serve me meat, I’m not gonna do that.

Todd: That’s you, Craig.

Craig: Maybe

Todd: That’s you. Todd, come on. I’m telling you. No. Seriously? No, seriously, people will do this. It does seem extreme, really. People

Jules: will do

Todd: this.

Do you think? Uh, yes. Wow. They will. And now, I don’t know why she didn’t just pipe up and say, oh, don’t, don’t forget, I’m a vegetarian. She probably just could have said those words and whatever, but in the moment, with the chuckling and the insisting and all this stuff, there can be a lot of things going through your head.

There can be like, well, maybe he doesn’t remember, or maybe, you know, he, then you think, oh God, well, he cooked this whole roast boar and this is all we’re going to eat tonight, and then I’m going to spoil the whole thing by speaking up and saying something for it. You can be caught in this kind of position.

And now, you or I. Probably wouldn’t do that, but I am telling you, especially in some cultural situations, it would be again. It’s it’s so against your training that you just might just go along with it. Take a little nibble or just pretend like you ate a little bit of the end or something like that. But what’s going on here really is that these people are being tested.

You know, by the end of the movie, I was like, why did, why did all this happen? And there’s an answer, and I think we’re going to get to it, but They’re, they’re, what becomes obvious is they are being tested. These are just a series of, because they could just take this couple, you know, Hi, you’re at our house.

Put plastic bags over their head and do what they’re going to do with them. But yeah, you don’t know if they’re going to put up a fight, you don’t know if they’re gonna what they’re going to do. It’s so much better to do this grooming and to do this testing so that you know what you’re getting into. And I think that’s what’s happening here.

Jules: And I think they enjoy it as well, don’t they? I get the impression that it’s part of their, their game. It’s something that they like to do. It’s their hobby almost. So, um, yeah, very strange.

Todd: Also, there’s this other dynamic too, right? There’s the husband and wife dynamic, and I think what is very clear from the beginning before they even go to that house is that Bjorn is a little unhappy.

He’s mm-Hmm. kind of got this longing for the simple life, you know, he’s very taken by Italy. By their time there in Tuscany, he’s, he’s like almost crying at the girls singing and looking around and, and he sees Patrick kind of raises glass like, Hey buddy, I’m enjoying this too. From across the way. Yeah.

And then back in the city, you know, he’s distracted when he’s at the apartment and you can see him staring out the window and the parallels are obvious, you know, he’s looking out the window and he’s like, this isn’t Tuscany. So he’s kind of wants to get into this and he kind of wants to, he’s, he’s got this appeal of this remote place out of nowhere.

And these people who seem to live this simpler life and are very easy going. And then. You know, now you have this husband and wife dynamic. Maybe the wife isn’t quite like that, but because the husband kind of is, he’s kind of like, Oh, go ahead, go, go with it, honey. You know, and they can’t argue in front of the guy.

And so, you know, that’s happened before

Jules: in any relationship. That’s interesting that you’ve interpreted it like that because I interpreted. Bjorn as being incredibly bored with his life. I felt that he was sort of in that, I think we all go through it at some point, you know, when you realize, you know, adult life can be so monotonous and, you know, responsibilities and there’s that.

Brief moment when they, they go back home after the Italian holiday. And Louise is saying, Oh, Agnes needs some new shoes. What do you think of these shoes? And shows them a picture and, Oh, and she’s going to need another little jacket as well. I think I might order her one of those. And that’s when he’s looking out of the window and I, I imagine him just being so bored and then later on as well, when he’s, he’s in the car talking to Patrick and, uh, and he starts describing, well, Patrick is describing, I get this feeling inside that I can’t express and I need to, to let this thing out.

And what he means, of course, is because actually I’m a serial killer.

As well, you know, yeah, this, this feeling, there must be more to life, that kind of thing. Cause I was watching, I felt really sorry for Bjorn, but I just wanted to say, Oh mate, Do you know what? Just have a quick affair or something that just get it out of your system.

Craig: I feel sorry for him in this situation because this is a terrible situation that he finds himself in with his family, but I don’t feel sorry for him for his life.

And I, I really kind of hate this trope of. People who are in long term relationships, like I’m, I’m so bored and I, like, I, I need something else. Oh God. Like you, you can be, you can be in a happy long term relationship. You

Todd: can be, but I mean, it’s not necessarily just a trope, Craig. It does happen to people just cause you’re happy.

I understand.

Craig: God, I understand it just bothers me like and and that scene that you were just talking about where they’re talking together in the car I 100 percent thought that they were gonna fuck

They did look at each other My mind

Jules: didn’t go though. Oh

Craig: my god I thought that Patrick is gonna whip his dick out and they were gonna go to town Huh?

Todd: That

Jules: would be a whole other movie.

Todd: That’s the way you wanted it to go, wasn’t

Craig: it? I don’t know, like, he, like, the bad guy is like

Clip: You know, sometimes I have this, this thing, right here.

And, and it’s so powerful and wild. And, and, and I like it. That’s the weird part. I, I really like it. You understand? Yeah. You do? Totally. Normally I just, uh, Just try to hold it down or Keep it in, keep it in chains. Why?

I don’t know why. Too many rules, I guess. It’s, um It’s what? I don’t know. It’s close, yeah, I don’t know, it’s close to fabric, you know? It’s like I’ve become this person that I don’t want to be.

Craig: Yeah, you know. What you’re supposed to do, but don’t you ever want to do what you’re not supposed to do? Like, uh, I think I’ve seen this movie.

Gosh, gosh, gosh. But I get it. You know, they, whatever. I would never do it, but they do, they go and they spend some time at the house. I’m like, everything’s okay for a while, but then everything’s weird. Like that’s. my problem with it. Like red flags and beyond that The red flags, they leave and then come back and stay.

Todd: That made me so angry,

Craig: but

Todd: I got it. I did not think, look, you can, you can look at it one way and say, I would never do that, but it doesn’t mean that it’s unrealistic. I think. I don’t think these people would do it. I don’t think they were unbelievable characters. Because it’s not like all these red flags all the time and they’re so severe, you know?

The first thing that really happens is when they’re out in the fields and Abel’s sitting on the slide and Agnes wants to slide down. There’s a language barrier. The parents all talk English to each other, but it seems like the kids can’t quite, I don’t know what it is, but anyway, one speaking Dutch, one speaking Danish.

Louisa asks Patrick, hey, you know, could you, could you maybe tell Abel to get off the slide so that she can go down? And he stomps over there and yanks him off the slide, quite forcefully, is like, apologize to her and whatnot. Now, he’s, he’s a bit rough with them, and this is the first time they’ve ever seen these parents deal with a kid who has an issue or something like that.

And. You know, I’ve been in situations like that where I’ve seen some parents and their parenting style is not something that I agree with. But, to me, that’s not like, oh, these people are weird. It’s like, oh, I don’t agree with this parenting style and it’s making me uncomfortable and I wish they would stop.

But Fine,

Craig: fine, fine,

Todd: but do

Craig: you want to be friends with them? Do you want to go stay at their house? Well,

Todd: if I’m already there and he’s a little rough with the boy and he’s like, no, you don’t need to be, it’s okay, you know, like, whatever. And

Craig: then Yeah, I don’t question people’s parenting styles either.

That’s not my place. I, I, I understand

Todd: that. The part that bothered me The part where I thought, Oh, my God, what is going on here? Is later that night, Louise expresses her feelings to Bjorn. She’s like, I don’t really feel comfortable here. And at first he feels like, well, he’s listening to her, but he’s like, well, maybe we can just manage it for another day, day and a half.

What’s the harm? And then almost immediately the next day in the morning, the woman comes in. Or might even be the next minute. The woman comes in, Karin, and says, Hey, we would like to take you out to our favorite restaurant here in town. And they’re like, Oh, that’s great. And as she leaves, Bjorn kind of looks at Louise and is like, So unpleasant, that woman, huh?

Like, you really think this is a big deal? But then, that night As they’re getting ready to go, a guy shows up and it’s the surprise babysitter.

Jules: This was the moment for me. This was the moment when I thought, no, okay, that’s it now. No, no, no, no, surely they’re not gonna do this. They’re not gonna say, yeah, okay, we’ll leave our child with this man we’ve never met in our lives before.

Doesn’t even

Todd: speak English. No way. That’s

Craig: hilarious to me.

Todd: That’s hilarious to me

Craig: because my parents So would have done that. Like if their, if their friends had hired a babysitter and we were just going to be there, that would be fine. They’re friends, not

Todd: their friends, but like they’re people they just met.

Jules: Exactly. I mean, I don’t know. I mean, he

Craig: seemed nice. I mean, like, how, how much do you vet a babysitter really? I mean, like, he seems,

Jules: well,

Craig: I don’t have kids. You’re right. I would probably, I would, yeah, I would, but no, like my parents were young, they were in their twenties. I was a kid and they wanted to. My parents are middle America people, and they’re not wild at all.

When I say they wanted to go out, like, maybe once in a while they wanted to be away from their children. If that meant that they had to hire a college student that they’d never met before,

Jules: I’m sure it’ll be fine. It’ll be fine. It just felt a bit different that obviously they didn’t, they didn’t know these people at all.

And you’re just taking somebody’s word for it that you’ve only known really for a matter, matter of hours and saying, well, yeah, that’ll be okay.

Craig: Yeah. What bothered me is that Agnes’s parents, obviously you can see in their performance that they’re hesitant. They’re reluctant. They, something doesn’t feel right.

And they keep going along with it anyway. And that’s true for most of the movie. And I get that. Honestly, guys, I’m a very, like, antisocial

Jules: person. I just

Craig: am so happy to just be by myself in my house because I’m crazy. Um, but I, I get it. Like a rational person would normally, you know, you give people the benefit of the doubt, but to what extent?

And I just can’t imagine as those parents, they obviously sense that something is wrong and they continue to sense it. I just can’t. Yeah, but they continue to stay like but yeah,

Todd: they yeah, they do but they’re they’re one foot out the door I mean, this is where it starts to really ratchet up like up to this point.

It’s kind of weird Yeah, but then at the dinner Patrick gets suddenly weird and confrontational about her Vegetarianism

Clip: and remember I’m a vegetarian. I’m

Todd: sorry.

Clip: Yes. I don’t eat meat. Oh, yes. Yes, so good for the environment Yes, but you eat fish, right? So you’re not a vegetarian, you’re a pescatarian. Yes.

And fish is not meat? Of course, um, but it’s better for the environment. And the way the fishing industry works and how we treat the oceans is not affecting the climate.

Todd: And they’re at this quiet restaurant that’s totally just them. It’s not really even a restaurant. It’s more like a bar with some tables.

Luisa’s getting drunk. They get up and dance and start making out. And at first, Bjorn and Luisa are like, Oh, you know, well, maybe we should get up and dance too. But then the other couple just starts going to town on each other. And it’s just making them so uncomfortable. And then when they go to leave Patrick looks at the bill and is like, Well, somebody had a good time tonight.

Craig: Yeah. I am out. I will pay that bill. I will pay that bill and I am f ing out. We’re done. Thank you.

Jules: I just, I thought exactly that. That would be the moment, wouldn’t it? Where you would go, right. Okay. Literally, you have to really cross the line now. Things can’t get any worse. Surely.

Todd: They’re driving drunk and their music’s loud and they won’t turn it down.

And they’re being rude. And. It wasn’t. Rude. Yeah. That was it for them. She, what, she takes a quick shower and it seems like, um, Patrick has come into the bathroom and is peeing while she’s brushing his teeth while she’s taking a shower. She comes back and they all agree. They both agree. We are leaving. So they get in the car and they go and to me this was like, you know, if this movie had gone any other way This is like they didn’t pass the test These couple did what they could to ratchet up to a thousand percent to see what would make this couple break This made them break and they left and then like you knew was gonna happen as they’re driving away This girl who we’ve already established loves her rabbit more than anything and the dad is like a little hero for going and fetching it Whenever she loses it.

She’s left a rabbit Oh my god. Oh my god. I was thinking, you remember Burnt Offerings? I was like so Burnt Offerings. It’s like, just go. Keep driving. You will get a new rabbit. Oh my god.

Craig: Don’t go back! Yeah. Yeah, so stupid and then and then when they go back like it turns out the rabbit was in the car the whole time That was so um, yeah

Todd: So cruel for the audience.

I felt so mad at the director for that.

Craig: Yeah, and then there And so then they’re back and the husband goes in, it was like, sorry, we left. And the bad dad is like, Oh, good. I just hate that you didn’t think we were good hosts. Yeah, he does that so well. I thought that was funny. And the wife, the wife does.

like, I’m sorry, our house isn’t a mansion and we really thought you’d be comfortable. Like, fine. I get it. Who cares? Leave, send them, send them a nice email.

Jules: I’ve written in my notes here, I’ve just made myself laugh, I’ve written in my notes that the part where when Louise is in the shower and Patrick walks in, he’s brushing his teeth, I’ve written, am I a victim blamer? Because I was really angry with her in that moment. I thought she doesn’t even have to, you know, you wouldn’t have to be aggressive about it, but you could just kind of go, Oh, hi, did you know I’m here?

I’m in the shower. Can you, you alright, just give me a You know, she just kind of stands there and freezes in the shower. I thought, her husband’s literally just over the way. So just say, oh mate, I’m just here. Can you give me a minute? But then, no, and then to choose to go back for a cuddly toy. Oh no, this was when I started to really feel, as I say, a little bit, and I did think, am I, am I a bad person?

Am I victim blaming? Am I saying they’re asking for it? What am I dreading? I don’t know. They’re not

Craig: asking

Jules: for it. Ratcheting it up really slowly, isn’t it? You know, bit by bit, these people kind of fall into the trap.

Craig: They’re not, I don’t think they’re asking for it, but they’re stupid. There’s no reason for it.

Like, and so many things happen. Like these people become, obviously, abusive to their own child who doesn’t speak because he doesn’t have a tongue, then I’ll just gloss over the point that the bad dad watches the nice couple and The and the good dad sees it and just doesn’t say anything

Jules: So weird and that was just after the shower scene as well She just got out of that shower obviously feeling really quite understandably Creeped out by it. She gets into bed with her husband and starts making out with him. And that felt a bit, that felt a bit weird to me. I wasn’t sure what was going on there, but okay.

I’m not, no judgment.

Craig: I mean, no, it’s fine. To be fair. They can have sex. Next, if they want, that’s fine, but you are in somebody else’s house. And like, honestly, this house seems super small. So it seems like all of the rooms are kind of connected and everybody can hear. Like, I don’t know, maybe calm down, but whatever, that’s fine.

But when you see the gross, so dad watching you, I mean, and you’re just like, whatever, that’s cool.

Todd: He glanced in, as he walked by in the hallway, he wasn’t like he was Standing there forever. I, I,

Craig: he was standing there. He only walked away. He only walked away.

Todd: He made

Craig: eye contact and walked away. Yes. He only, yes, he only walked away because the guy saw him.

Well, he was standing there watching them.

Todd: Yeah. Okay. Well this was also the same point at which the girl was trying to get into the bedroom. Yes. So her timing was poor. So obviously, you know, Patrick would be up because he was what we find out, he got the, he got the girl, he got, um, Agnes. The mother after they’re done banging gets up and is looking for Agnes and she’s not in her bed And it turns out she’s laying in bed with the other two couple with the other couple NAKED!

Craig: He’s naked,

Todd: yeah. NAKED! He’s naked, yeah.

Craig: That’s not okay! No, it’s not okay. And I feel like that’s the But this is the point I feel like that’s the thing that pushes them over the We really have to go and thank God they do. But then that God damn bunny and they come back.

Todd: No, no, no, no,

Craig: no. Am I going backwards?

You’re going

Todd: backwards. Yeah, this is, you’re going backwards. This is when, yeah. No, this, this, they decided they were definitely going to go. But then there’s shit happening with Patrick and Abel at night. Bjorn confronted Patrick about the bed thing. Patrick tried to make him feel guilty about it. Like, well, your daughter was crying.

Where were you? But then, like, some stuff happens with Patrick and Abel at night. He can hear, Bjorn can hear them kind of yelling and arguing. Doesn’t really understand. And at this point, you can see it on his face. He’s like, we’re going to leave, but it almost feels like this kid needs rescuing. And so he gets up and he follows Patrick.

Well, he kind of wakes up and walks around and he sees Patrick kind of go out to the garage. Sort of follows him out and around and he finds, Camera equipment inside. That’s like a shed or something. And there’s a staircase up the stairs. And when he gets to the top of the stairs, he sees all along the walls, all of these many photos of them posed with families, much like the photo that this family had sent them after their vacation in Italy.

And what he notices is. That in each of these photos, it’s like they’ve kid swapped. There’s a photo of them with this other family and their kid. And now they have that kid and he immediately knows what’s going on. He goes downstairs and he wanders out to where the, I guess is another building where the pool was, right?

And this, this was the part that really turned my stomach was when he walked into that pool and saw Abel floating face down.

Craig: Yes. It was horrifying. Oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I knew what was going on. I knew these people were crazy. I knew that they were grooming or whatever their victims. I didn’t know exactly what was going to happen, but to see them posed with all of these other families with their.

At the time, child, and then, you know, the victim parents with their child, they’re just doing this. It made me sick. And then, I really think that the most shocking thing From this movie, you know, despite the fact that Abel or whatever the kid’s name is, has been kidnapped and tortured and blah, blah, blah, to see him floating dead in the swimming pool, really, really upset.

Jules: Yeah, it is. That’s upsetting, isn’t it? It is a really upsetting moment. But you know, I thought that the actor who plays Bjorn, I thought, Thought he was absolutely brilliant. Did you? Cause all the way, all the way through the movie, I’ve been so frustrated with him, so annoyed by him. And then to see his facial expression, you all know, you see the penny drop when he’s looking at the photographs and you think, thank God.

Okay. Now he’s going to leave. And then. He’s confronted with that horrific moment of seeing this poor, poor little boy floating in the pool. And I just thought the act, that actor was so good. Yeah. I thought his facial expressions were absolutely spot on. So yeah. Horrific scene, but absolutely brilliantly done.

I

Todd: thought. Oh, he was brilliant. So amazing.

Craig: Yes. Agreed. Agreed. I think that the acting in this movie is fantastic. I think this is a really good movie. I think that it is beautifully shot. I think that the acting is fantastic. It’s very suspenseful going in. If you don’t know what you’re getting into, it’s shocking.

And there are a lot of twists. Like, I think it’s a great movie.

Jules: Yeah,

Craig: I suppose it is very difficult to watch because, and I think for me, the reason that is difficult to watch is because as anti social as I am, I could potentially find myself in a situation like this, that I’ve tried to be nice and now I don’t know how to get out of it.

Jules: Yes.

Craig: Yeah. Ultimately, I, I think that that’s what the big struggle is. They try to be nice and they’re trying to get out of it, but they don’t know how. And then in act three, it turns into something totally different where these people are in fact psychopaths. They are doing this. Apparently, systematically.

And we don’t know why. Like, We never find out. We don’t know why! No! And, like, is it just them? I, I, I did read that they had initially intended to The finale was supposed to be larger. That, like, it was, like, supposed to be, like, a religious sect that was sacrificing people and, and yeah, me too. Me too. I am too.

I prefer that. It’s just these crazy people.

Jules: Yes. The fact that it’s meaningless makes it more horrific, doesn’t it? I mean, obviously it’s horrific anyway, regardless. But the fact that there is no real motivation, no real purpose, it’s, it just is, that’s, what’s really scary. I think. Well, and that’s why

Craig: I said in the beginning, you know, I listed all those movies that are reminded me of the reason that I included the strangers is because there’s such a similar line in the very end, one of them says, why are you doing this?

And the bad guy says, because you let me, yeah, like that’s so crazy. But at the same time, I’m like, yeah, I would not have put myself in that position. I feel bad for you, but don’t put yourself in that position.

Jules: Especially obviously on the rewatch. I thought there are so many moments where you go, okay, if you just stopped now, if you turned around now, everything would be okay.

No, you’re going to keep going for a bit. Okay, well, if you stop now, that was a bit horrible, but it will still be okay. You know, there’s so many, there’s probably about 10 moments where they could have taken the opportunity to go, Do you know what? That’s, that’s just gone one step too weird. We’re going to go home.

But they don’t, they just keep rolling with it.

Craig: They almost get away so many times.

Jules: Right.

Todd: And you still feel like they could have. And there were so many moments when they could have, but they were so paralyzed and so inactive.

Jules: Yeah.

Todd: Basically, they get in the car, they take off, they have car trouble, so of course they gotta stop, and like an idiot, he says, You guys wait here and I’m gonna go up to the house.

Yeah. Ugh, don’t do that, you know? So of course he goes to the house, there’s nobody there. When he comes back, Patrick and Karin are right there. And they’ve already brought the girl and the mother into the back seat and told them that Patrick called for them. And he’s standing outside the car and, uh, Pat Stop

Craig: listening!

Stop listening! If you Yeah, if you don’t want to be disturbed. Bjorn,

Todd: Bjorn says to Patrick, like, please don’t hurt my family, and Patrick lies to him and he says, everything will be fine as long as you do exactly what I say. By the way, everybody out there, that is never true.

Jules: Yeah, that

Todd: is something people say it’s never true.

So he goes in and he is continues to be compliant. He doesn’t turn around and shout. Something’s wrong. He doesn’t reach over. Patrick even tests him one more time by pulling over to the side of the road, taking a piss, leaving his keys in the car. He could have done that. The movie is just hammering this point home that evil exists in the world and sometimes it’s able to be successful because we literally just stand by and do nothing even when it’s our own best interest.

And it’s frustrating to see him do this and then they drive all around and then they stop because they’re clearly not going to the house. And the most heartbreaking part of this whole movie for me. Is when the mother and the girl are getting scared and in the back and the girl’s like mommy mommy I’m scared and she pulls her to her and says honey.

You know what? Mommy’s always told you nothing bad can happen to you While mom is with you

Jules: Yes.

Todd: Oh. And two seconds later, something bad happens to her.

Craig: She gets her tongue cut off.

Todd: And dragged away forever.

Jules: Oh, it’s heartbreaking. That part is just, oh, I could feel that in my stomach. Just that, you know, literally having a child dragged away from you.

And don’t tell your child this thing. And it’s the babysitter. It’s the babysitter. We knew. We knew. Don’t trust the babysitter. Yes. It

Craig: was bad. It was bad. My God, that part killed me too, because I feel like when that Girl, when Agnes was ripped away from her mother, her mother died in that moment. Like, for the remainder of the film, she wasn’t even there.

She didn’t care. She was done. She was done. I think that the dad and God, if you haven’t, if you’re listening to this and you haven’t seen this movie, I really, you should watch it. Like stop now and watch it.

Jules: But I

Craig: was

Jules: just

Craig: so, I just felt so sad at the end. It felt so tragic and they take those. people, the nice people, the nice couple that we like, they take them and they force them to strip.

Jules: Yes, there’s more humiliation on top of the heartbreak and on top of the dreadful things that have already happened.

They take it even further. It’s just so horrible.

Craig: Right. Just, just your humiliation, degradation. Yeah. But only just say, go here. And then we’re going to stone you to death. Yeah. I have never, I have never in my life I think seen, I don’t know, maybe some religious movie like Passion of the Christ that I’ve blocked out.

I don’t know, but I’ve never seen somebody stoned. Oh

Jules: yeah. That’s brutal. And, and

Craig: to, and to see these two people who are. scared and defeated. I mean, they’re defeated. It’s, it’s over and they know it. Yeah. To see them just cling to each other and then be brutally stone to death. It’s sick. It’s disgusting.

And it was so hard to watch and and then the credits just roll and my jaw is just on the floor like watch

Jules: Who is this strange British woman who’s made me go through this experience?

Todd: No, I was like, who is this team of people who’s investing time and money into remaking this for an American audience? I was like, what the hell? What are they thinking?

Jules: I’m really interested to see it.

Craig: Yeah, did you all read that whoever the money behind this movie wanted them to film alternate endings because they didn’t feel like the audience would be satisfied with this ending.

So they, they wanted it to be a lot of different people executing people or they wanted there to be some explanation behind why. These people were torturing these other people and ultimately they just didn’t do it So I’ll be very interested to see in the remake if they stick with the really really bleak Nature of this or if they do something different.

I have no idea

Jules: Yeah That is gonna be interesting because I think the one of the reasons that this film was so unsettling and upsetting is precisely for that isn’t it as we said earlier that the fact that you’re not given a reason it’s we’re not told you know what these horrible people’s childhood was like or you know what it is that why their how their brain is wired wrongly so that they behave in this horrible way they just are almost the epitome of, of evil, really.

They’re just bad people. And it’s really difficult to have to have to think about that, isn’t it? You know, we like, even when, you know, dreadful things happen in the real world, we all, one of the first things we ask is why did they do that? You know, not that it makes the actions any better, but at least we can start to try and gain some sort of insight into what that person’s, what they’re doing.

Source of thinking was, but yeah, this, this kind of, I will be interested to see if the remake, because I presume the remake will have had a much, much bigger budget. And, um, yeah, they’re going to have to obviously, you know, they, they’re going to want to sell tickets. So are they going to do it so that it’s got a happier ending, you know, and the good guy wins out.

I’m really interested to see how they’ll do this.

Craig: God, I can’t even imagine. James McAvoy, I think is playing the,

Jules: yeah.

Craig: Patrick the bad guy. I

Jules: love him.

Craig: He’s he’s brilliant. He’s brilliant. Yeah, he’s a brilliant, brilliant actor. Yeah. What split I think was the one movie that he did. He is That’s

Todd: that guy. He’s fantastic.

Yeah. He’s got

Jules: eyes that just, he can do this thing where he, and I don’t know if you’ve watched the trailer for the remake of it, but his eyes are amazing. He’s got this look, hasn’t he? Of you don’t know what I’m going to do from one second to the next. You know, he’s just, he’s got this, But he’s all because he’s such an attractive man, you sort of, he’s perfect playing that kind of person that can lure you in and then just, you know, kind of completely turn into something different.

Yeah, I think everything. I don’t think I’ve seen James McAvoy in anything that I haven’t. Enjoyed, you know, and it’s largely down to his performance. I just think he’s he’s excellent.

Craig: Well, yeah I 100 agree and I I think that he’ll be great. This seems like a great role for him I I think he’s got i’m i’m looking forward to it

Todd: I think he’s got a big shoes to fill because I thought the original actor fed.

Yvonne Hewitt. Oh, absolutely

Jules: Yeah Did

Todd: you know, by the way, he’s married to the, to the actress who played his wife in the movie, Karina Smulders. He has a very, very, very long and accomplished career from the Netherlands. He’s just, uh, he’s been in a lot of movies and he’s apparently very well respected and loved.

I just, you know, I don’t see enough of him because I don’t watch a lot of foreign films. See what kind of happens to come past me, but, uh, I was very, I had a lot, I had a pretty good time reading up on him and going back and looking at some clips of some of the other stuff he’s done. He’s brilliant. And he really pulled this off well.

Jules: Yeah. I thought the cast in general were fab, weren’t they? They were just great. Yeah.

Craig: A hundred percent. I thought they were fantastic. The, the woman who is his wife and played his wife, I thought she was spectacular. I thought they were all great. Everybody did a great job. Todd and I, when, when I told Todd that we were going to do this movie, I said, it’s so weird to me that there’s going to be a remake because this movie just came out in 2022.

Todd: And

Craig: I said, and it, and it’s an English language film. I had forgotten that it’s not entirely English language. But I, I, I still, I still find that a little bizarre. Like, why are, why are we remaking movies two years later? It just came out. Yeah, it

Jules: is interesting. And I hope they do keep that sort of understated vibe to it.

But the more we talk about it and the more, as you say, it’s only two years later, makes me wonder if they will. Completely change parts of it so that it’s it’s not quite so understated and it has got that more sort of Budget, I don’t know, slightly more action horror feel in places to it, you know, what do you think?

Yeah.

Craig: Well, well, I, I mean, I’ll watch it. I don’t, I might, I might see it in the theater or I might wait until it comes out on streaming, but I’ll, I’ll definitely watch it and, and maybe then you can watch it too and come back and talk with us again, because this has been great. Like, oh man.

Jules: It has been so much fun, I can’t begin to tell you.

It’s so nice.

Craig: It’s so nice when people reach out to us. I, I told Alan this morning, like it was right before I was getting on, like 20 minutes before I was getting on. And I said, there’s, there’s a woman in London who is excited to talk to me.

I’m, I’m as shocked

Todd: as you are, Craig, honestly,

Craig: here I am, here I am in my little tiny modest house in middle America, Missouri, and I’m like, there’s somebody out there in the world who is excited to talk to me and that just makes me feel really, really good.

Jules: Talking to the two of you has just, it’s been the highlight of my year, honestly.

And the fact that you’re mentioning Alan to me is Alan, Alan knows who I am. That’s amazing.

Craig: He does. He’s like, Oh, are you, are you recording with the comedian today? Like, yep.

Jules: Love Alan, love him for that.

Todd: Tell us about your podcast. You’ve got one as well, don’t you?

Jules: Yeah, I have a podcast. My podcast is called Avoid Excessive Cleavage and it’s named after the title of my comedy show, which is, the full title of my comedy show is Avoid Excessive Cleavage and Other Advice to Ignore.

And the reason that it’s called that is because Because I am a woman of a certain age. And once you get past around about the 40 mark, you seem to just be given so much advice about what you should and shouldn’t wear, how you should and shouldn’t behave, things you should and shouldn’t do. And I just got a little bit tired of it.

So I did a whole show about aging and how. You should just own it and be happy and have a great life, no matter what age you are. So I ran with that and my podcast is also based around that idea of kind of, who cares how old you are, just live your life and have fun.

Todd: Mm.

Jules: So yeah. That’s what my podcast is all

Todd: about.

Gonna have to get listening to that. And so if we just search for that name, we can find it.

Jules: Avoid excessive cleavage, guys.

Todd: Wonderful. Oh, well, I don’t, I’m not going to take that advice, but, uh,

I happen to have a fondness for excessive cleavage myself. So, uh,

Jules: there you go.

Todd: I will take

Jules: it. Get your cleavage out and then have a great time. That’s all good.

Todd: Then I’ll take your advice. That’s wonderful.

Jules: No, it’s been fabulous. I’ve absolutely loved it. Thank you so much for having me on here, guys. It’s been fabulous.

Todd: Thank you for coming on. It’s been lovely chatting with you, and thanks for the recommendation for such a good movie. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jules. Thank you all out there for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please reach out to us as well. You can just go on to our website and click talk to us, where you can record a little voice message.

You don’t have to have any special software or anything installed. You just send us an email. Send that straight to us. We’d love to hear from you. If you don’t have to do that, you can also just shoot us an email, or find us online at Facebook, or Twitter, or our Instagram channels. Just search for Two Guys in a Chainsaw podcast and you’ll crack us down there.

If you really want to get deep in the weeds and become a part of the party, join our patrons at patreon. com slash chainsaw podcast. We have a lot of fun behind the scenes and a lot of chatter going on there as well. Until next time, I’m Todd. And I’m Craig. And I’m Jules. With Two Guys and a Chainsaw.

We’ll see you next time.

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          If you’re looking for a late-night-cable-horror flick to goof on, Demonic Toys would fit the bill. Otherwise, there are probably better so-bad-they’re-good movies to spend your time with. Craig revisited some nostalgic one-liners from his childhood, while Todd just threw up his hands.

Expand to read episode transcriptAutomatic TranscriptDemonic Toys (1992)Episode 406, 2 Guys and a Chainsaw Horror Movie Review Podcast

Todd: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two Guys in a Chainsaw. I’m Todd. Well, today we are doing a movie that you suggested, Craig. I had suggested we do Ghoulies. Just kinda out of the blue, really. But you came back with, Oh man, I wanna do Demonic Toys. Because, uh, you wanted to do something quite silly.

I thought Ghoulies was gonna be silly enough. But, uh, apparently, The bar wasn’t, wasn’t low enough. Before we did

Craig: it, I kind of wanted to have a talk about Ghoulies, because I honestly don’t, I don’t remember Ghoulies that well. What I remember really liking is Ghoulies 2. The one where they’re in like a circus, and I never saw that one.

It’s got our favorite old guy in it. I don’t be able to think of his name. He was in The Blob and House 2. Oh, yes. Royal Dano? Yes, yes. He’s in it. So anyway, I just wanted, before we committed to Ghoulies, I wanted to kind of toss that around. Have a serious conversation. Okay, fair enough.

Todd: Well, we’ll save that for another day.

Now we’re gonna have a very serious conversation about demonic toys, aren’t we? Well, it

Craig: did, it brought that movie to mind. They’re not dissimilar, they’re both little creature movies. And, I didn’t remember much about this movie at all, except for the fact that fact that my sister and I used to watch it when we were kids.

Yeah. And I felt like I, I remembered either liking it or thinking it was funny or, or something. I couldn’t put my finger on what it was, but I thought

Todd: it’d be fun to return to. You would have been in middle school when this was released. It’s a direct to video release. Yeah. And so do you think you rented it?

Maybe copied it or. Maybe you rented it. This feels like something that. It feels like late night. Yeah. I was just going to say like USA up all night. A hundred percent. I was getting Sorority Babes and the Slimeball Bola Rama vibes. Almost anything really by Charles Band around this time kind of has these same vibes.

It’s just, uh, you know, let’s face it, relatively cheap, straight to video schlock. But, you know, they have their charm points, and I certainly enjoyed watching those movies. When there was nothing else to watch late at night, mostly hoping to see some boobs and a little bit of gore too, and something silly.

And, and, this has all of that in it. A bunch of silly stuff, some gore, and a couple boobs, so, uh, I mean they were Not God given, but they were there. Big, yeah. As was the style at the time. Right. Nineties. Oh my God. I’m 100 percent certain I’d never seen this before, but I had heard of it. You know, I figured we were going to get to it eventually.

I am aware that this movie spawned some sequels. And, uh, some crossovers with Dollman. There’s like Dollman vs. Demonic Toys. There’s Puppet Master vs. Demonic Toys or something like that. We did Puppet Master earlier and, of course, It’s kind of hard not to compare the two since they are both Charles Band productions.

Yeah, I’m just gonna come right out and say I think Puppet Master is a far better film than this one. They’re both similarly a little far fetched and corny. Similar production value. I don’t know. I think Puppet Master has a higher production value, but it came first. I think They were up to Puppet Master 2 or 3 by the time this movie came out.

Yeah. And those were at least released in the theater, I think, and this one never was,

Craig: so. The security guard in this movie is watching a Puppet Master movie on his TV. Yeah. Little in joke there, right. Yeah, I don’t know, I think Puppet Master probably had a little bit better production value. I know we’ve talked about it, but it’s been a long time, I don’t remember it all that well, but I kind of seem to remember it being at least a little bit scarier.

Yeah.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Then this movie,

Todd: this movie isn’t really scary. Unlike a lot of these, really, it doesn’t make any pretense toward any kind of suspense. I liken it to almost like just a supernatural slasher without the suspense. The characters are, almost all of them are just unlikable, or you just don’t care about them, or they’re just unbelievable because the acting is kind of terrible.

We’re going to talk about it because, you know, we’re nobody. Look, nobody is going to take this movie seriously. Nobody’s probably supposed to take this movie seriously. Now our job here on this podcast, we fairly review horror films where our job is to take this movie seriously somewhat. So we’re going to talk about the good and the bad from a critical perspective, from a movie that probably doesn’t never asked to be reviewed from a critical perspective.

Yeah,

Craig: I, but. That being said you’ve got to take it for what it is like, oh, yeah, that’s what I’m saying This movie doesn’t have aspirations to greatness in any way. Oh, no. No, I think it’s just it’s trying to be fun Yeah, it’s weird. The thing that I found the weirdest about this and we can talk about specific Moments moving forward, but I couldn’t tell if the movie was written for 13 year old boys or by a 13 year old boy, like

Todd: I agree with you all the only thing, if it had been written by 13 year old boys, there would have been more than two boobs in it.

So I would say probably probably for 13 year old boys.

Craig: Yeah, gosh, some of the dialogue, especially wow. Wow,

Todd: the writing, you know, there’s this, there’s this line, right? I mean, there’s movies like this and then there’s movies like, and I just want to keep coming back to it, Chopping Mall. Yeah, and you could almost say Chopping Mall is just as corny and silly, but Chopping Mall has a bit more tongue in cheek.

Not that this movie doesn’t. There’s something about Chopping Mall that is just laughing at itself so much that it’s charming and I didn’t find a lot of charm in this movie. I and I found it Entertaining if you have nothing else to watch, you know, there’s stuff going on. There’s stuff to see it’s not boring.

That’s well, it is a little boring in some parts, but it’s, you know, it’s not as charming as I thought it could have been and should have been. I remember the puppet masters movies being charming maybe because there was a degree of mystique and mystery and, and a bit of lore that was actually rooted in history that, I mean, even though it’s rather silly.

It wasn’t quite as silly and convoluted as the bizarre lore from this one. Oh god, right? I get what you’re saying. You know what I mean? You’re saying I’m having a hard time expressing how I feel about it

Craig: Yeah, I get really hard. It’s not good. Like like you got to go into it It’s a it’s bad. Like it’s a bad movie, but I think it just Manages to reach so bad.

It’s good. Like for sure There are parts of this movie that are really funny that that made me laugh out loud and it’s, it’s so silly and so ridiculous and like you talk about that The backstory of it. It’s so stupid, but

Todd: the backstory does feel like it was written by 13 year olds.

Craig: Oh my God. Well, and the whole thing, I mean, the whole story is so there’s so little to it.

Right. The, the main character is this woman cop. And in the beginning, she’s sitting out in front of this factory with her partner, who is also her romantic partner.

Clip: We were right to move in together. And, now that you mention it, maybe we should get married. Look, I got nothing against marriage. Just that, you know, we should get married when we’re ready to have kids, you know?

Do you want kids? I mean, cause we never really talked about it or anything.

Craig: Yeah,

Clip: sure, someday,

Craig: you know. And she confesses that she’s pregnant. Yay, they’re gonna have a baby, but they’re on a stakeout. And, as soon as

Todd: That was clever. They’re having this, almost like this romantic talk there. It’s funny too, the way it’s shot.

It’s shot over each other’s shoulder, but they’re each looking at the camera in close up when they’re talking to each other. I think Witchboard did this. I can’t remember which other movie we saw that, where I thought that was really But then, you know, they’re embracing, and it’s like, Oh, I’m pregnant, oh, I’m gonna be a father, And it’s like, you shouldn’t have come out here tonight.

And, you know, and she’s like, That’s okay, you got your piece? Yeah, I do too. Alright, let’s do this. That was funny. That was funny.

Craig: And well, and then this car comes racing around the corner and for a second, her partner guy, like pretends that they’re making a deal, like an arms deal or a drug deal. I don’t remember.

It doesn’t matter. But as soon as he says, yeah, now you’re busted. You’re under arrest. The bad guys pull out guns and start shooting and shoot him dead.

That was.

Todd: Yeah, dark and quick, and also the most inept cops you can possibly imagine. He pulls out his gun and says, freeze, while the criminals who are, I don’t know, 12 inches away from him are both holding guns. It’s pretty stupid.

Craig: They have a little shootout, and I, does she shoot one of them? I think she shoots one of them.

It’s such a little shootout.

Todd: She shoots one of them as he’s running away, and then proceeds to kneel down very dramatically over the body. Oh

Clip: my god, no! No!

Craig: But, but not call anybody. No! Cause that would, that would make far too much sense. So instead, she just left him. Yeah, she leaves him there on the ground in an alley.

For dead. And then chases this bad guy with a gun into an old toy factory. Where the rest of the movie takes place. Oh, maddeningly. Okay. And it’s just, like, stacks of boxes and, like, chain link fences. Like,

Todd: it’s cheap. It’s a cheap and boring location. Oh, my God. But this is very typical for these productions.

I mean, you find your one location or your three sets that you can use and just move the boxes around and make it look like a slightly different aisle or whatever, you know? Uh huh. It’s lit like a TV movie. Lots of blues, like, like blues and shadows

Craig: in hallways and stuff. It needs more shadow. It needs more grit.

That’s where I would say that, that, that is somewhat charming to me. These feel like those late night movies. They, like you said, they were, many of them were like this low budget, cheap sets. So I’m kind of getting into it at this point. I made a huge mistake of. Skipping the actual beginning, which is a dream sequence,

Todd: which is

Craig: weird.

Todd: Oh my God, this dream sequence. How convoluted is this movie? They’ve got what could be a dream sequence out of Nightmare on Elm Street visually, except the cheaper version. Cheap, yeah. Very cheap version. It looks like, again, like the high school put it together with their, with their theme. theater flats, but it’s the, the woman, uh, what was her name?

Judith. Sitting in a chair, two boys in front of her who were playing war with cards, you know, the, where you, where you’d flip over a card. The boys are facing each other and then surrounding them are clocks, like tall grandfather clocks, smaller clocks. There’s even a giant pendulum swinging behind her on the wall.

gossamer curtains. Oh god. Oh, they tried

Craig: well and the and like the camera is doing all these angles like it’s it’s not just shooting them straight on it’s like You know tilted 15 degrees or whatever Oh my god, it’s so silly and they’re just sitting and like the whole thing is one is blonde. They’re the same age.

They’re both, I would say, I don’t know, eight, nine, something like that. One is blonde and the other is brunette. And then I don’t remember if this is revealed here. We come back to the stream sequence a couple of times and it’s always the same. Um, but at some point you realize that the dark haired boy also has these, you know, Unnatural eyes like these green kind of demon eyes and he’s also got like claws instead of regular fingernails It’s super heavy handed and they’re playing war but they’re like drawing every time like yeah Or or one wins and then the other wins and then the other wins and then it’s it’s very Kind of even God, it’s like, what could it mean?

What could it be? Well, we’re just going to have to watch and find out. I suppose we’re just going to have to watch and find out now this is part. I’m not sure if I remember. Okay. So they go, there’s a guard in there and stuff. He’s like this fat, this fat guy. And he calls for chicken, which brings the chicken delivery boy eventually.

And that’s it.

Todd: That’s

Craig: everybody. That’s all our people.

Todd: Except for the demon, right? The chicken guy, who at first I thought must be his son or related to him. I guess he’s just a good friend. Cause he asked to get him on the phone. He just delivers chicken to him every night. That must be it. And there’s a bunch of dumb bi play with the boy.

Unrealistic dumb bi play with the chicken guy at the chicken shack.

Clip: Mr. Wayne. Mr. Wayne? You got a cigarette in your mouth?

Craig: No. It’s your dick. This is the, this is the writing. This

Todd: is what a 13 year old thinks he could just say to his manager and get away with. Those are the jokes, folks. They don’t get any better than that.

They get worse. It’s chunky chicken? Yeah. And he asks if he wants his chicken extra crispy or chunky and he’s like, You know. Chunky. What would that be? I don’t know. I don’t want to know. That sounds awful. I don’t want to know either. I was like, I was waiting to see it. I thought that was going to be a joke of some kind and I’m kind of glad it wasn’t because I wasn’t sure what that would be.

So you’re right. He drives up and he’s got a hatchback with a giant chicken on top. And that’s apparently what they tootle around town in. The Chicken Mobile. to deliver chicken to people. He pulls in, and you’re right. We’re inside the warehouse, and these are gonna be our people. And what happens is that the woman, in this very long, drawn out, god awful action sequences, is chasing after the bad guys.

And there’s the really, really mean guy. And I don’t remember what Oh, Lincoln.

Craig: Yeah.

Todd: He’s the utterly crazy one. And then there’s the one that she’d actually shot, the blonde, the white haired guy. And he is crawling after Lincoln, and Lincoln’s like, Oh, fuck you, man. He kicks him down the stairs. Lincoln’s not having it.

So Lincoln runs upstairs, and this poor guy is just crawling across the floor. And then he bleeds. Yeah. On a glowing spot on the floor that is cut in what we later see is the shape of a pentacle? Star? It’s not even that, it’s just a star. I think it’s, I

Craig: think it’s a pentagram, but There’s no circle. Right, well, yeah, I think there is, cause Later there’s a circle.

Cause the baby draws it. Exactly, that’s what I was gonna say. Cause these bad toys come to life. Does the body, like, disappear? I don’t remember. His body? Yeah, I don’t remember. He bleeds into the floor and then these bad toys come alive. This is hilarious. This is what I love about this movie. These bad toys.

Now, it’s very much in the vein of like Puppet Master or any of, or Ghoulies or even Troll.

Todd: Yeah.

Craig: Right, right. But these, I love the design of them, but what’s hilarious to me is that they are very clearly just hand puppets. Or just toys that somebody is holding from behind and shaking. Yes.

Todd: Like,

Craig: at their worst.

They very, make minimal, minimal effort to make these things look at all real or alive. Like it’s just a puppet on somebody’s hand or somebody holding a doll around a corner and shaking it as it’s supposed to be talking. And I think it’s kind

Todd: of hilarious. It’s hilarious. And that’s, that’s the thing. Part of the charm of the movie, but except for Baby Oopsy.

Well, there are some, there,

Craig: there are some really tight close ups of like their faces and stuff. But anytime you see them in their entirety in the shot, it looks not great. There are some close ups, like the baby, the bear gets some scary close ups and stuff. Yeah, but what were you gonna say? Sorry to interrupt.

Todd: Well, I was gonna say I appreciated the effort given to Baby Oopsy. Baby Oopsy is a very rudimentary animatronic. It’s almost like a ventriloquist dummy with where just its jaw kind of comes down. But then you can tell there are like two wires somewhere in there that are only there to pull him up into an evil grin.

Which it does almost painstakingly at times. Ugh, and pull, and pull his um, his brow down into a, you know, an angry look. Baby Oopsy is kind of the Chucky wannabe of the group. This, that’s what makes this a little different from Puppet Master. Actually what I really liked and what I thought what kind of Upped Puppet Master’s game just a little bit is the fact that none of those dolls talked.

They were a little mysterious, right? They were all marionettes made out of wood and different things like that. Here, they growl, and they laugh, and they chuckle, and Baby Oopsie has a bunch of lame dialogue. And that Oh my god.

Craig: See, I think it, okay, in terms of actual quality and fear factor, yeah, it takes it way down.

That’s what I meant. In terms of camp and humor, I think it elevates it. Through the roof, yeah. I think that it’s, I, yeah, I think that, Baby Upsy’s the only one that talks. The others vocalize, but they don’t actually talk. But he’s like a wisecrackin foul mouthed baby. And this, aside from the fact that they’ve made its face look ugly, like, no kid would ever want to play with this doll, it really does look just like a generic baby doll.

And so for it to be so foul mouthed When the guard first sees him, the baby goes,

Clip: Hi, you fat fuck. I’m baby oopsie daisy. You lord ass. Will you be my special friend?

Craig: What the hell?

Clip: I can walk. I can talk. I can even shit my pants. Can you shit your pants?

Craig: And when I saw that, I remembered why my sister and I liked it. We thought. That was hilarious. When you were 13. I could walk, I could talk, I could even shit in my pants! Oh my god. I know! It was so funny. And not even the lines are that funny, but just the delivery. The voice coming from this little baby doll.

I still, I laughed out loud when I heard it again. I completely forgot about it.

Todd: Glad that was able to rekindle some childhood memories for you guys. Yeah, well they killed, they killed Jesse and, and that’s pretty gross. I mean, you know, one of them is, uh, Wait, who’s Jesse? Which one’s Jesse? The guy, the, the, with the white hair.

Yeah, Lincoln, Lincoln and Jesse were the, the two people. And Jesse’s the one who falls down, the blood, the toys come to life, and then they kill him. There’s, one of them is, uh, is, um, a jack in the box. I liked this one. Did you? I

Craig: don’t know if I don’t know if this is a hot take. I certainly didn’t read it anywhere else, but I didn’t do a lot of research either.

I was watching this thinking, I wonder if the designers on Krampus were inspired by this movie. Oh, you could hardly not be. Pretty similar. They are. The, uh, the jack o lantern that’s evil. I mean, they even kind of look alike. Yeah, you’re right. The bear, even the baby doll, that angel’s kind of like a baby doll with wings.

True. I mean, all of these things are. Very common childhood, generic childhood toys, too, so

Todd: Yeah, there’s only certain ways you can take it, but

Craig: It could be a coincidence, but I would be a little bit surprised if it wasn’t a complete

Todd: coincidence. Well, what I liked was that the Jack in the Box He would pop out, and he was a, he was a, you know, a nasty looking clown with very sharp fangs and a huge head.

But then, he had a tail to him. He was almost like one end of a snake. And he had a tail to him that was holding a rattle. A literal rattle, like a baby rattle. Eventually, that gets severed. And so we, I mean, you know, the fact that it’s not just confined to this box was kind of cute, actually. I, you know, you expect this thing to be bouncing around inside of a box, but it, it wasn’t, it was like a creature inside the box and, and it’s got big sharp teeth.

And it, it, it, Leaps on this guy and just takes a huge chunks out of his cheek and the bear leaps on this guy And you know actually for a low budget movie. This wasn’t half bad. No, it’s pretty good. The bear like bites his fingers off, right? Yeah, it was I mean look we’re still heads and shoulders above the uninvited With the demon cat.

Remember the demon cat on the boat? That one where this movie wasn’t even trying to be good like that movie was. So uh,

Craig: The blood. Oh. And, and the baby draws the pentagram around that spot in the floor. And then the blood from this dead guy. brings this kid. Now it’s the dark haired kid from the lady’s dream.

But now he talks and he talks in this weird man voice, like this weird, I can’t describe it. It’s it’s like they put it through some kind of, they put it through some kind of filter or something. It’s, It’s odd. It’s, it’s not natural sounding. Thanks

Clip: for

Craig: coming.

Clip: I’ve been sleeping for a long time, waiting for someone just like you to wake me.

We’re going to have a lot of fun here tonight, friend. We’re going to raise hell.

Craig: And then a lot goes on. I don’t even, you know, it’s so ridiculous. The other people, okay, so like, Mark the chicken guy and the guard are in one room, and then Judith and Lincoln, they’ve had a fight and she’s got him handcuffed, but they’re like locked in a storage room or something.

For reasons I

Todd: don’t understand, she decided that once she cornered him in that room, that she was gonna put the cuffs on him and just sit there for a while.

Craig: I think they’re locked in, but I don’t know why, like, I don’t know if the door just closed behind them or what, but they can’t get out, but they make a bunch of noise, And, and then the guard and the other guy come looking for her.

And this is all just the toys, you know, menacing and

Todd: attacking. And at one point after they’ve been menaced by the toys a bit, I think they all kind of end up back in that room. And I guess they’re locked in again because they can’t get out or they don’t think they can get out because of the. The toys out there, and then Lincoln gets that animated 80s electricity all over him and transforms into that boy, Demon, which says some cryptic things to Judith, taunts them some more, and then turns back into Lincoln.

Craig: Yeah, that’s right, Lincoln is possessed, and he says I need your bodies, I need flesh and blood. I don’t remember when it comes, like, I, I know that, you know, the, uh, they kill the guard, the baby kills the guard, and they, like, drag it away, because they have to, it’s very Hellraiser, they have to, like, bleed people on this.

So that the demon can come back fully before he goes into her baby. I don’t know. And, and like the baby is dragging the guards. Like you’re heavy. You Moby dick. The baby’s lines cracked

Todd: me. Yeah. Suddenly it’s like people under the stairs, the vent opens up and this. Kind of disheveled dirty girl comes sliding out of it.

I was watching you. I What’s happening? Well, I’ve been here for a couple days. Oh, you’re a runaway, huh? You could say that All right So now at least we have one more person because there wouldn’t be a high enough. It doesn’t even make sense No, I didn’t even think about it. She’s like, I’ve been

Craig: here a couple days.

The toys are evil bitch. They just woke up They just woke up Yeah I don’t know what

Todd: you’ve been seeing up to this point, but nothing cuz it just

Craig: happened.

Todd: I didn’t understand that either because later In a complete almost non sequitur. There are these three girls Spirits who are riding tricycles with, and they’re wearing old style gas masks on their faces?

But they’re not real, because they disappear. But they’re still scared of them. And the girl sees them and is like, Oh yeah, no, don’t worry, I know they’re not real, I’ve seen them before. So, is this place, when it’s not full on, you know, toys coming to life, is it still just vaguely haunted? Maybe? Ah. We’re not really meant to pick this apart.

Well,

Craig: we get the backstory, but I, I felt like the backstory I don’t remember when we’d get it. Maybe it’s near the very end.

Todd: No, what happens is, somehow Judith gets knocked out. So they’re in a toy factory, or a toy warehouse, or something. While Anne and Mark are crawling around in the vents trying to find their way to the security room, Anne is back there with Lincoln, and Anne sees a dollhouse, and starts staring in the window, and pretty soon she finds herself inside the dollhouse.

And that is when we get the long ass convoluted backstory. And oh boy is it a joy. It’s long! It’s like, it’s like a quarter of the movie length, this backstory. And it needs to be, because it doesn’t make any sense. And he talks so much. This, when he appears, at this point, is he still just appearing to her as the boy?

Yeah, he says. I can appear in any way I want. And then changes into a demon and then changes into something else. And then finally down to, Oh, like, yeah. The, uh, her husband’s like dead gross body. Yeah. And then back to the boy. But this is the form I like the best.

Craig: Right. He, uh, yeah. He says he needs a body.

He says that animating, okay, so God. I guess it just so happens that today was the day that it’s been 66 years and he was finally had enough energy to animate the toys. And then he tells the back story, which is a whole flashback and is pretty interesting. Awesome. I’m not gonna lie. It shows that it’s like Halloween 1925 and this woman in this dark room is in labor and there’s a bit like a dreamcatcher pentagram hanging behind her.

And that’s how we know it’s evil, by the way. This old woman delivers a demon baby, and it’s like this big

Todd: demon. It looks like a little demon. I loved it. But a slimy demon, like you know, it gave birth, it came out of the birth canal. It’s a little wet, it’s a little slimy. You recognize the woman, right? I wasn’t paying that close attention.

Oh, God. Pat Crawford Brown. Probably, she’s been in a million things. But, I especially remember her as the old stuck up lady in Elvira. Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

Craig: Oh, yes, yes. I did

Todd: recognize her. You know,

Craig: I don’t

Todd: know if we said this when we were watching that movie. And I don’t know if I knew this when we did that episode.

She started her acting career at 60. I think I knew that. She retired from teaching English and started her acting career and then was in like 200 things before she died. All over television and movies and things like you saw her everywhere. This was actually one of her very first movie roles. Right after Elvira, Mistress of the Dark.

She was in a lot of TV.

Craig: I did. I did recognize her. She’s, she’s very familiar. Yeah. Any horror fans, if you saw her, you would recognize her. Yeah, for sure. Though she didn’t just do horror, she did lots of stuff. She did comedy and stuff too. She was just the old lady in a ton of movies. Yeah. Mm hmm. Little old lady, cute.

But anyway, so they’re like, oh, the baby’s dead, I guess we’ll have to try again. But then, it’s Halloween, so some trick or treaters come. And they’re like, the trick or treaters are like, trick or treat! And the doctor’s like, hold on a second. I got something better than candy. And he goes and he wraps up the dead demon baby.

And he’s like, it’s like a seed. You have to plant it or something like that. And then it will

Todd: grow. And they’re like, thanks, sir.

Craig: They run off like they

Todd: understood everything he said.

Craig: Oh my God. It’s so hilarious. Right. And so then they like go out, I don’t know where they go. I think they were

Todd: at a construction site.

Craig: Yeah. Yeah, that’s right. The factory is probably being built or whatever. And. They open it up and they’re like, ah, and they throw it. And I guess that’s just where it stays in a hole. And now 66 years later, he’s back and I don’t, I, I, gosh, there’s so much great, great dialogue in this, but he says something to her.

He says something to her about writing shotgun down the old birth canal. Yeah.

Clip: Even now I’m taking care of your friends in the air conditioning shafts. Yeah. No. Then I’ll come for you. Then we can do the nasty.

Craig: And then we can do the nasty. And he says it multiple times. The nasty. That was the other thing that my sister and I thought was so funny.

Like who says that other than like 11 year old

Todd: boys, Satan, Satan, do the nasty. When Satan refers to sex, he’s gonna say, Do the nasty.

Craig: He keeps saying it. Oh, it’s so funny. He talk he talks about how they’re gonna do the nasty like two or three times. And then we can do the nasty. And then he’s like, but don’t worry then, I’ll, you know, I’ll speed up the pregnancy or whatever and you’ll be a mother by

Todd: Sunrise.

Yeah. So this is, this is the back, this is, this is somehow supposed to explain why we’re here and why all this shit’s going on. God,

Craig: it doesn’t make any sense. But it’s still pretty funny. Okay. So Mark and this mystery girl. Oh, by the way, also from Elvira. Oh, that’s right. She, yes. I, I looked her up too. She was, um, the cute, I don’t know, the cute young girl who, uh, was enamored with, uh, Elvira.

Yeah. It was, yeah. I remember her. She ended her acting career with this movie. I

Todd: wonder

Craig: why. I was going to, yeah, I was going to say she didn’t do. Yeah. Oh my gosh, but yeah, they’re crawling around in the ventilation system for some

Todd: reason? I don’t They’re looking for I don’t understand why they can’t just break the door down or something like that, or break the window.

I don’t know. They can’t get out the door, apparently. Or they think I think what they think is if they go out that door, the toys or the girls are going to attack them. So if they go to the security room, they’ll be safe. So they go down to the security room, but they’re pursued through the ventilation shafts by these toys.

You’ve got to just imagine that these toys can f Including this robot that just rolls around like a tank can somehow roll its way up the wall and into the ventilation shaft, too. And that’s where this movie, I mean, you know, again, it’s just, it’s just silly. This toy can shoot lasers. Mm hmm. And it shoots two lasers at you and you’re dead.

But inside this ventilation shaft where it’s got a straight shot a foot away from this kid somehow it misses him and Then they kind of get out and then they kind of kick it over and kick it away and anyway It’s just it’s hard to take it seriously Like we said, there’s like no suspense here because you can’t really believe anything that’s happening So they fall into the security room The doll and that robot show up at the top of the shaft and look down at them and start shooting at them, missing completely.

Doll, ha ha ha, cackling. At some point, he gets some hairspray that happens to be sitting on Was he using it for his beard or something? I don’t know. Hairspray that’s sitting on the console and his lighter and does a flamethrower action onto those guys. And the doll says,

Craig: Hey, you f ed up my makeup!

Cackling. I was clearly amused because I wrote all these lines down. Yeah,