Public Theologians: Recent Episodes
Casey Hobbs
Christian theology animates leftist political action. A conversation among socialists, the Christian Left, fellow travelers and beloved comrades.
*In the conversation we cover sensitive topics such as child sexual abuse.**
Dr. Audrey Clare Farley rejoins the pod to discuss her new book Girls and Their Monsters: The Genain Quadruplets and the Making of Madness in America.In the early 20th Century a set of quadruplet girls became instant celebrities. Like many childhood stars the story becomes complex and dark under the surface. Audrey and I discuss the shadow sides of human nature as well as my own personal experience being a twin...though thankfully my story is vastly different than the quadruplets!
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Stephen Kinzer returns to discuss the coverage and lack of debate on the war between Russia and Ukraine. Bringing his well-earned experience to bear Stephen calls attention to the realities of war and the need for a rational conversation about a peaceful end to the conflict. We also discuss the existential risk of nuclear war and the US's lack of moral standing to wage yet another proxy war.
We also cover common objections (sometimes waged in good faith!) to supporting a cease fire in Ukraine.
Stephen Kinzer is an award-winning foreign correspondent who has covered more than 50 countries on five continents. His articles and books have led the Washington Post to place him “among the best in popular foreign policy storytelling.”
Kinzer spent more than 20 years working for the New York Times, most of it as a foreign correspondent. His foreign postings placed him at the center of historic events and, at times, in the line of fire.
Stephen Kinzer's writings
PUTIN & ZELENSKY: SINNERS AND SAINTS WHO FIT OUR HISTORIC NARRATIVE
THE INCALCULABLE MORAL COST OF PROXY WARS
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As always feel free to reach out and agree/disagree. Nobody has all the answers but we can all ask good questions and engage in good faith.
Writer and historian Aaron Leonard comes back on the show to talk about his latest book Whole World in Uproar - Music, Rebellion and Repression 1955-1972. In the interview we talk about state repression of The Beatles, FBI files on Dylan's girlfriend and why Phil Ochs and Jefferson Airplane deserve attention as radical artists of the 60's.
Along the way we talk about various illegal and immoral wars (past and present), drugs (why they should all be legal), sex (ok not too much sex in this one) and rock and roll (lots of material here!)
Check it out and order the book from Repeater Books!
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Dr. Miguel A. De La Torre, professor of Social Ethics and Latinx Studies at the Iliff School of Theology in Denver, Colorado, joins the conversation to discuss his new book Resisting Apartheid America: Living the Badass Gospel. We get into what it means to push back against received narratives and roles for the sake of our neighbors as well as the differences (if there are any) between the two major parties in the US, particularly when it comes to upholding a white supremacist viewpoint.
As usual there are rabbit trails and some laughs along the way!
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Dennis Baron joins the conversation to discuss his forthcoming book ""You can't always say what you want: The paradox of free speech" (Cambridge Univ Press, 2022)" and the state of free speech in today's America. We get into conversation about all things free speech from government interference with social media companies to the impact of a changing understanding of the second amendment and its impact on the ability of groups and individuals to make their voices heard without threat of violence. We also get into the somewhat dystopian present and future of free speech!
Dennis Baron writes about the English language and the technologies of communication. In addition to his scholarly publications, he writes frequently on language and technology issues in the news, and his essays have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, and many other papers; he is regularly consulted by journalists and has appeared on CNN, NPR, the BBC, the Voice of America, and the CBC -- he's discussed the changing English language with radio hosts ranging from Stephen Fry to Joan Rivers. He's interested in language and the law, has consulted in a number of legal cases, and served as lead author of "the Linguists' Brief," a grammatical and semantic analysis of the Second Amendment in the Supreme Court case District of Columbia v. Heller (2008). That amicus brief was cited in both the majority and minority opinions.
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EU Hate speech laws
Twitter Files reporting
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The justification for war is as endless as the long and virtually unbroken record of war in the US. Is there another way to understand the destruction of Ukraine and the potentialities of direct US or NATO military engagement with Russia? Does it make sense to continue funding a war instead of forcing a peace deal? Is it too late to give peace a chance?
Casey reads his latest substack piece about the endless loop of war propaganda we find ourselves enmeshed in once again. It's not too late to fight for peace but the time to do so is now.
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Are we in a new reformation? It sure seems that way. With everything on the table as far as faith, spirituality, along with political unrest and the increasing hollowing out of capitalism's promises, can psychedelics help birth what's next? Dave Barnhart, a pastor, author, teacher, church planter and mental health counselor joins to offer his experience and imagination to the conversation.
Along the way we talk about the virtues and vices of social media, the healing potential of psychedelics for anxiety, OCD and PTSD and more!
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Dave's wordpress
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After learning about the healing potential of oft-maligned substances, particularly in a therapeutic setting, today's guest found a gap in accessibility in Alabama and he did something about it. Kenton Bartlett is a Psychedelic Therapist here in Birmingham, AL. We got to talk about the movement to reintroduce life-changing medicines from Ketamine to Psylocibin (aka mushrooms), LSD, MDMA and more.
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Nearly 600 days into coal miners here in Alabama taking a stand for their rights and the wellbeing of their families against the Warrior Met Coal company, the fight continues. Haeden Wright has stepped up as a leading voice within the Brookwood coal mining community.
Haeden Wright is UMWA Auxiliary Locals #2368/#2245 President, Alabama SDEC HD 49 Representative, SDEC Executive Board CD #6. She is the wife of a striking miner and comes from a long line of Alabama union coal miners.
More about Brookwood Miner's strike:
UMWA Strike Aid Fund
UMWA: How private equity firms caused the UMWA strike in Brookwood
Haeden interviewed by Kim Kelly
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Paul Bowers, a writer with a substack called Brutal South (that you should follow immediately). He joins to discuss his recent piece Debt holds the whole thing together. We discuss Biden's $10,000 student debt relief plan, the morality of debt and the collective imagination we might find if we embraced an ethic of Jubilee.
Paul's recommended organizations:
The Debt Collective
Housing Justice Network
Charleston People's Budget
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Dr. Lauren Turek joins to engage in dialogue and debate about our proxy war in Ukraine. We talk propaganda, the morality of sending tens of billions of dollars to a military w/a Nazi battalion and why its so hard to give peace a chance!
Woody Guthrie, Pete Seager and Sis Cunningham, among many others, were the targets of the House of Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC) from just before WWII to just after. Aaron Leonard discusses this history and the redbaiting aftereffects still alive and well nearly a century later.
Order Aaron Leonard's book: The Folk Singers and the Bureau: The Fbi, the Folk Artists and the Suppression of the Communist Party, Usa 1939-1956
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Ok we've established that the CIA is and has always been an institution that has been up to no good. We've also discussed the fact that Wild Bill Donovan was more than ready from the beginning to use religion as a tool for spycraft both domestically and abroad.
This week we complicate matters with the story of the missionary-turned-spies in Germany at the beginning of WWII with Dr. Matthew Avery Sutton discussing his book Double Crossed: The Missionaries Who Spied for the United States During the Second World War.
We get into the ethics of deceit, of being used by a government apparatus in the extreme circumstances of Nazi Germany. Are there lessons for today? What does it mean to make decisions when there don't seem to be good options?
I'd love to hear your feedback on this conversation! Email Casey at dissidentorthodoxypodcast@gmail.com with your thoughts!
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Is nothing sacred? When it comes to American exceptionalism, at least religious practice sure isn't.
As Dr. Michael Graziano discusses in this episode, right from the beginnings of the CIA, part of the strategy to advance American interests around the world was the co-opting of religion. The conversation touches on the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran and the resulting Islamic Revolution of 1979, denigration of Buddhism leading into the Vietnam War and the religious backlash to 9/11.
Check out the book here! Errand into the Wilderness of Mirrors: Religion and the History of the CIA.
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Since at least the early Trump days a curious thing has happened among the liberal/left. Instead of reviling the FBI and viewing it as a tool to enforce Capitalism these same government spooks have become heroes. The bizarre trend goes on with the recent raid of Trump's files in Mar a Lago. Since when is the left supposed to be allied with the DOJ and FBI?
Dean Strang - the defense lawyer we all know from Netflix's 2015 Making a Murderer - joins to tell the wild story of how the Department of Justice took on its power in the early 1900's. Yes, their first act was to crush the Wobblies (IWW). You can read all about it in his 2019 book Keep the Wretches in Order: America's Biggest Mass Trial, the Rise of the Justice Department, and the Fall of the IWW.
---------------------------------------------------
Dean Strang is a criminal defense lawyer and author of two books of legal history that explore the experience of outsiders and newcomers in the U.S. judicial process during the World War I era. He has written several law review articles as well.
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Union organizing is in the news for the first time in many of our lifetimes. Christian Smalls and the Amazon Labor Union has inspired workers at Starbucks, Chipotle and brought into focus the traditional unions like the Warrior Met coal miners on strike in Brookwood, Alabama. But what if all of these workers got together - all of us - in the states and internationally - and stood up together against the 1%?
That was the Wobblies' idea at the beginning of the 20th Century.
Dr. Peter Cole joins the conversation to talk about the legacy and relevance of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW).
Peter Cole is Professor of History at Western Illinois University and Research Associate at the Society, Work and Development Institute, University of the Witwatersrand. He is the author of Wobblies on the Waterfront (University of Illinois Press, 2007) and editor of Wobblies of the World (Pluto, 2017).
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Legendary journalist Stephen Kinzer discusses his 2019 book Poisoner in Chief: Stanley Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control. As it turns out, the CIA is not to be trusted and, yes, US intelligence has a long and unbroken history of torture. But, no, there's not really such a thing as mind control. A decade or so of MK Ultra proved as much. As Kinzer says, "the only one mind control worked on was Gottlieb himsef."
Throughout the course of our conversation we also discover the reason John Lennon always remembered to thank the CIA and what accidentally sparked the brilliance of Ken Kesey and the Grateful Dead, turning out a generation of anti-war hippies.
We also discuss the potential benefits to using psychedelics in safe, responsible and therapeutic settings!
Stephen Kinzer is the author of many books, including The True Flag, The Brothers, Overthrow, and All the Shah’s Men. An award-winning foreign correspondent, he served as the New York Times bureau chief in Nicaragua, Germany, and Turkey. He is a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University, and writes a world affairs column for the Boston Globe. He lives in Boston.
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Dr. Daniel Williams, Professor of History at the University of West Georgia and author of several books including Defenders of the Unborn: The Pro-Life Movement Before Roe v. Wade and the recently released The Politics of the Cross: A Christian Alternative to Partisanship joins Casey to discuss the recent Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) fallout from Dr. Russell Moore's leaked letter, charging leaders within the Convention of a litany of racial and sexist comments and actions. We hear from Dr. Williams on why he chooses to remain in Evangelical spaces while recognizing the need for repentance and systemic change. We also discuss the historical context of the abortion conversation, why Republicans were pro-choice pre-Roe, why Liberals and Leftists alike were largely pro-life at the time. The historical lessons, as always are instructive to addressing both the political and the moral ramifications of the questions today. We also discuss why a better approach would be to offer substantive policies (one might even call them "concrete" or "material") instead of slogans and false promises offered each election. Mentioned in this Episode:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2020/12/im-not-leaving-evangelicalism-even-with-its-unfortunate-political-choices/ https://religionnews.com/2021/06/03/sbc-sources-paige-patterson-made-black-girl-comments-cited-in-russell-moore-letter/ https://www.christianpost.com/news/mike-stone-russell-moore-letter-an-attempt-to-sway-sbc-election.html https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/daniel-williams-defenders-unborn/435369/ https://www.alibris.com/The-Politics-of-the-Cross-A-Christian-Alternative-to-Partisanship-Daniel-K-Williams/book/48546009?matches=34
Like the show? Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts!!! Promo Music by Orbach https://orbach.bandcamp.com/album/orbach Theme Music by Small Fish: https://soundcloud.com/small-fish Support the show: patreon.com/caseyhobbs Follow Casey's work: https://caseyhobbs.com/ https://twitter.com/caseyhobbs
Dr. Brendan J. Payne joins to discuss his book Gin Jesus and Jim Crow: Prohibition and the Transformation of Racial and Religious Politics in the South from LSU Press. Brendan traces the prohibition debate through the lens of Baptist and Methodist traditions, in concert with the progressive voices of the day who successfully lobbied for the 18th Amendment. A familiar theme arose in his research. White religious folk and politicians were...wait for it...super racist and used Black voters as pawns while doing little to nothing to secure their rights.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
A note about the podcast: This will be the last in the season, we'll be returning in August but with a new name! Henceforth we'll be known as Dissident Orthodoxy. The feed will stay the same and the content will be similar. Look for some new art work, new music and a bit more descriptive language for what I've been aiming at these two years!
Talk to you in August!
BRENDAN J. J. PAYNE is chair of the Department of History at North Greenville University in South Carolina.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Kathryn Gin Lum discusses her forthcoming book from Harvard University Press Heathen - Religion and Race in American History. The conversation includes not only historical context of Christianity's heightened focus on dehumanizing outsiders with the "settling" of America but also contemporary examples of this phenomenon. As usual, we attempt to identify the primary beneficiaries of racism both then and now.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://religionnews.com/2022/03/22/whats-alien-about-war-in-europe-the-heathen-world-offers-clues/
https://religionnews.com/2022/03/22/whats-alien-about-war-in-europe-the-heathen-world-offers-clues
https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2957825/statement-by-secretary-of-defense-lloyd-j-austin-iii-on-the-closure-of-the-red/
Kathryn Gin Lum is a historian of religion and race in America and the author of Damned Nation: Hell in America from the Revolution to Reconstruction. Her writing has appeared in the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, and Christian Century. She is Associate Professor of Religious Studies, in collaboration with the Center for Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity, at Stanford University.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Kathleen Wellman stops by to discuss her book Hijacking History: How the Christian Right Teaches History and Why It Matters. The subject matter, for Casey, is deeply personal, being taught in Christian schools with Abeka Book curricula from junior high school to graduation. History, in the world of right-wing Christian education is...shall we say...unique. Ever wondered how Moses, John Calvin and Thomas Aquinas led directly to the founding of America? Ever wondered why Capitalism is a gift from God and Communism/Socialism/The New Deal is directly from the pit of hell?
You've come to the right place!
Kathleen Wellman is Dedman Family Distinguished Professor of History and Altshuler Distinguished Teaching Professor at Southern Methodist University
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Audrey Clare Farley joins the conversation to talk about Evangelicals and their longstanding connection to something called "positive eugenics" (looking at you Dr. Dobson). Dr. Farley wrote an article in Religion and Politics on just this topic. It's surprising, shocking, and, well, interesting, if we're being honest!
We also talk about her recent book The Unfit Heiress: The tragic life and scandalous sterilization of Ann Cooper Hewitt that puts it all in narrative form!
Check out more of Dr. Audrey Clare Farley's work here!
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Music: Orbach
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Fran Quigley, the author of Religious Socialism: Faith in Action for a Better World (Orbis Books) joins the conversation to discuss the long history of socialism in religious communities. In this conversation we focus on the legacy of socialistic Christians (predating the term by 1700 years or so) going all the way back to the book of Acts and the early Church Fathers. We also got to talking about the greats, from Eugene Debs to Cornel West, Angela Cowser and Colleen Shaddox. We also feature a long (and persuasive, I might add) pitch to join the DSA's Religion and Socialism Working Group! About Fran Quigley: A longtime human rights activist and member of faith-based and health care access advocacy groups, Fran Quigley is a clinical professor at the IU Robert H. McKinney School of Law, where he directs the Health and Human Rights Clinic.
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Holy shit.
Russia has invaded Ukraine. The borders of a sovereign nation (ahem. in Europe) have been compromised for the first time since WWII. Is Putin Hitler? Is Zelenskyy Superman? The narrative around Ukraine is so hysterical that even war criminal Condoleezza Rice - with a straight face - is denouncing preemptive war.
The US's role in this? Who knows. Just selling arms to a nation bordering Russia. Nothing to see here. NATO? Oh well, that's just too complicated to figure out, right?
Dr. CBS and Erica Caines from Black Alliance for Peace are here to call Bullshit. NATO, under US leadership, has been surrounding Russia since the days George H.W. Bush's National Security Advisor promised that NATO would expand "not an inch eastward" way back in 1990. So maybe this whole thing isn't about Putin losing his marbles, or about Ukraine's US-funded neo-nazi Azov Battalion but US imperialism?
You'll have to listen to hear more!
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.blackagendareport.com/biden-harris-and-never-ending-commitment-war-and-terror
https://www.blackagendareport.com/against-triple-evils-biden-administrations-affront-dr-kings-legacy
https://blackallianceforpeace.com/background-rationalization
https://blackallianceforpeace.com/resourcesonukraine
Part 2 of 2
Dr. Aaron Griffith discusses his book God's Law and Order: The Politics of Punishment in Evangelical America. Aaron and Casey discuss the influence of 20th century Evangelicals (a la Billy Graham and a little Johnny Cash) and the rise of the carceral state in the US. We get into the particulars of the developing focus on individual redemption, oftentimes (but not always!) to the exclusion of systemic reform and we flesh out some connections to current abolitionist movements as well as conservative Christianity.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
On February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was assassinated at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem. In the decades that have followed his legacy as a leader, an orator, a thinker and an all-around badass has been well-established. Although, let's be real, there's always more to say.
Dr. Biko Mandela Gray joins the conversation to discuss Malcolm X's theological development from a Marcus Garvey-influenced Christianity to following the Prophet Elijah Mohammad to orthodox Suni Islam. We get into the stories of Malcolm's life as well as the stories that animated the Nation of Islam in his day.
Dr. Gray’s work operates at the nexus and interplay between continental philosophy of religion and theories and methods in African American religion. His research is primarily on the connection between race, subjectivity, religion, and embodiment, exploring how these four categories play on one another in the concrete space of human experience. He also is interested in the religious implications of social justice movements. He is currently working on a book project that explores how contemporary racial justice movements, like Blacklivesmatter, demonstrate new ways of theorizing the connection between embodiment, religion, and subjectivity.
Check out Biko's forthcoming book Black Life Matter: Blackness, Religion and the Subject
Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention by Manning Marable
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Part 1 of 2
Dr. Aaron Griffith discusses his book God's Law and Order: The Politics of Punishment in Evangelical America. Aaron and Casey discuss the influence of 20th century Evangelicals (a la Billy Graham and a little Johnny Cash) and the rise of the carceral state in the US. We get into the particulars of the developing focus on individual redemption, oftentimes (but not always!) to the exclusion of systemic reform and we flesh out some connections to current abolitionist movements as well as conservative Christianity.
Follow Aaron Griffith's twitter
Order God's Law and Order: The Politics of Punishment in Evangelical America
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Freddie deBoer, prolific writer, Marxist scholar and influential voice of the American left, sits down for a chat. Typically in political discourse we spend endless time and energy taking shots at opposing political parties. Let's be honest, it's fun and really easy. Sometimes even cathartic. The only problem is that a myopic critique of "the other" is neither morally consistent nor politically useful.
Freddie and Casey discuss the left's trend towards nihilism, and our preference toward winning moral battles, even if that means losing ground in terms of real power. As Freddie reiterates many times throughout the episode, we have real work to do if we want to see a more socialistic future.
Order The Cult of Smart
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Maureen H. O'Connell joins the conversation to discuss her new book Undoing the Knots: Five Generations of American Catholic Antiblackness. We talk about the history of racism and antiracism through the prism of her hometown Philadelphia. In the course of our dialogue, we get into what it means to engage in the work of repentance that goes beyond virtue signaling and the significance of racial mercy.
Maureen H. O’Connell is associate professor and chair of the Department of Religion and Theology at LaSalle University. She authored Compassion: Loving Our Neighbor in an Age of Globalization and If These Walls Could Talk: Community Muralism and the Beauty of Justice. She is a member of POWER (Philadelphians Organizing to Witness, Empower, and Rebuild), an interfaith coalition of more than 50 congregations committed to making Philadelphia the city of “just love” through faith-based community organizing.
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Music: Orbach
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How can the Christian Left engage more fully with the broader US Left, particularly when it comes to foreign policy? What do the prophets have to say to us today about whistleblowers like Julian Assange, Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning? What big questions does the broader US Left have for the Christian Left?
Daniel Bessner, Assistant Professor in American Foreign Policy in the Henry M. Jackson School of International Studies at the University of Washington, joins Casey to discuss all these questions and more in a wide-ranging interview. Bonus of this episode is that Daniel flips the script and asks Casey some questions. Enlightening and fun for all!
Daniel Bessner currently holds the Joff Hanauer Honors Professorship in Western Civilization at the University of Washington. He is a member of the Henry M. Jackson School of International Studies and was previously the Anne H.H. and Kenneth B. Pyle Associate Professor in American Foreign Policy. He is also a Non-Resident Fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and a Contributing Editor at Jacobin. In 2019-2020, he served as a foreign policy advisor to Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign.
Daniel is an intellectual historian of U.S. foreign relations. He is the author of Democracy in Exile: Hans Speier and the Rise of the Defense Intellectual(Cornell, 2018), which you may order here.
He is also co-editor, with Nicolas Guilhot, of The Decisionist Imagination: Sovereignty, Social Science, and Democracy in the Twentieth Century(Berghahn, 2019).
Daniel has published scholarly articles in several journals and has also published pieces in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian, n+1, and other venues.
Daniel's twitter
American Prestige Podcast
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Kat Armas joins the conversation to discuss her recently released book from Baker Publishing, Abuelita Faith. We talk about Liberation theology, Womanist theology and the need for the church to hear from the women who have lived out their faith and theology amongst us in the past. Kat is also an excellent example of a woman engaged in all aspects of theological work and we'll be hearing from her for years to come.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Lauren Turek, associate professor of history at Trinity University, joins to discuss her 2020 book To Bring the Good News to All Nations: Evangelical Influence of Human Rights and U.S. Foreign Relations. Our conversation ranges from US Cold War policy (and why, oh why Evangelicals lobbied against peace/détente in the face of nuclear catastrophe) to examining a half century of religious cheerleading on behalf of authoritarian leaders and reliable support for regime change.
In this episode you'll also get to hear Casey misidentify leaders of Central American nations...partially because there are far too many US-backed coups supported by Evangelicals to keep track of, and partially because...let's be honest, Casey doesn't know everything!
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Ryan Cagle, pastor, spiritual director and founding organizer of Jubilee House in Walker County, Alabama, joins Casey this week. Ryan tells us about mutual aid efforts deep in the rural South and what it means to build solidarity among our neighbors regardless of political affiliation. Our conversation is yet another effort on Public Theologians to give some dimension to the flattened narrative of the backwards and racist South. Yeah, we've got problems, but as Ryan points out, "the ground is fertile."
Ryan Cagle's Twitter
Ryan Cagle's Website
Jubilee House
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Rebroadcast of last year's Thanksgiving episode with Phil Nellis. We talk Abraham Heschel, Eugene Peterson, the necessity of tending to our souls, slowing down and leaning into the rhythms that Sabbath offers.
This is our last broadcast of 2021! We've got some great guests lined up for 2022! In the meantime, wander back through our old shows, check out some other great Christian leftist podcasts (Magnificast, Faith & Capital and The Liberation Theology Podcast are a few good ones!) or...just...rest.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr.s Samuel Perry and Andrew Whitehead join the conversation to discuss their research on Christian nationalism. Is Christian nationalism synonymous with white Evangelicalism? What is the difference between civil religion and Christian nationalism? Why does anybody listen to David Barton?
Also we get into questions of power. Who benefits from Christian nationalism? How do issues like gun rights and the sacralization of the constitution preserve power?
Order Taking America Back for God
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Music: Orbach
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Casey reads from/promotes his substack post "Stolen elections: two can play this game."
Back to normal programming next week!
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Kristy Nabhan-Warren discusses her new book Meatpacking America in part two of our two-part series. This book deals with the decline of rural (largely white) Catholic parishes consisting primarily of farmers and the influx of immigrants from Central and South America, Congo and Indonesia among other nationalities. The story chronicles Catholic priest's efforts to unite these communities as well as the conditions of new immigrants working in the meatpacking industry.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Kristy Nabhan-Warren discusses her new book Meatpacking America in part one of our two-part series. This book deals with the decline of rural (largely white) Catholic parishes consisting primarily of farmers and the influx of immigrants from Central and South America, Congo and Indonesia among other nationalities. The story chronicles Catholic priest's efforts to unite these communities as well as the conditions of new immigrants working in the meatpacking industry.
Order Meatpacking America
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Robert P. Jones joins the podcast this week to discuss his book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity. We discuss the overtly racist religious settings of 18th century Christianity all the way up to the current day. We discuss monuments, felt racism versus material racism.
Finally we talk about how the history of the white church's racism has disfigured our soul and what it would mean for white American Christians to embrace honesty, repentance and return to the human family.
Check out the Public Religion Research Institute
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Obery Hendricks Jr. joins Casey for a second episode. This time around we discuss the leadup to the War in Iraq, beginning in 2003. Public leaders of the evangelical church...didn't have much to say about it at the time and haven't said much about it since. We dig into the details of Bush's lies, and the political docetism that allows theological abdication of prophetic responsibilities.
We also talk about what it would mean for the church (and particularly her leaders) to begin to take the political nature of Jesus' ministry seriously again.
Order Christians Against Christianity
Order The Politics of Jesus
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Music: Orbach
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Dr. Biko Mandela Gray, Assistant Professor of Religion, African American Religion and Women's and Gender Studies at Syracuse University joins us for the second part of our two-part conversation. This time around we discuss his essay Religion in/and Black Lives Matter: Celebrating the impossible.
Stay tuned to the end to hear Casey's first explicit question about theology as well as his butchering of Latin phrases. Enjoy the conversation and share with a friend or two!!
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Dr. Gray’s work operates at the nexus and interplay between continental philosophy of religion and theories and methods in African American religion. His research is primarily on the connection between race, subjectivity, religion, and embodiment, exploring how these four categories play on one another in the concrete space of human experience. He also is interested in the religious implications of social justice movements. He is currently working on a book project that explores how contemporary racial justice movements, like Blacklivesmatter, demonstrate new ways of theorizing the connection between embodiment, religion, and subjectivity.
Order Goodness and the Literary Imagination
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Music: Orbach
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Dr. Biko Mandela Gray, Assistant Professor of Religion, African American Religion and Women's and Gender Studies at Syracuse University joins the conversation to discuss his contribution on is essay discussing Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye in Goodness and the Literary Imagination. This one goes deep and moves quick. We talk about how taking our understanding of goodness for granted can result in unintended (but very real) harm.
Digressions include Kente cloth, both good and terrible recommendations on theodicy and why Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos' version of virtue signaling is morally bankrupt.
-----------
Dr. Gray’s work operates at the nexus and interplay between continental philosophy of religion and theories and methods in African American religion. His research is primarily on the connection between race, subjectivity, religion, and embodiment, exploring how these four categories play on one another in the concrete space of human experience. He also is interested in the religious implications of social justice movements. He is currently working on a book project that explores how contemporary racial justice movements, like Blacklivesmatter, demonstrate new ways of theorizing the connection between embodiment, religion, and subjectivity.
Order Goodness and the Literary Imagination
Support us on Patreon and win a book!
Follow Casey's Substack
Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Danté Stewart joins the conversation this week to discuss his forthcoming book Shoutin' in the Fire: An American Epistle. We discuss his experience growing up as a young Black man in white evangelical spaces, what it cost him and what it meant for him to lean in to his roots. Danté discusses the ways Black theologians from James Cone to Toni Morrison to James Baldwin brought him back to loving and embracing his own blackness in a world views him as a threat.
This very personal conversation includes Casey's and Danté's paean to their wives and features the cooing of Danté's youngest (Casey's small children take the week off from their cameo roles).
Order Danté's book Shoutin' in the Fire: An American Epistle
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All Season 2: Review the Show and Win a Book from our Previous Guests!
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Dr. Brian Stiltner joins Casey to discuss the long-awaited end to the War in (or was it on) Afghanistan and how the outrage of 9/11 was manufactured into a willingness to exact revenge on an enemy that had almost nothing to do with the fall of the Twin Towers. We discuss the changing mission that kept us there for 20 years as well as the moral bankruptcy of nation building.
Most importantly, we have a frank conversation about how Christians in particular might be instrumental in stopping the next forever war from getting started in the first place.
Dr. Brian Stiltner is Professor of Theology and Religious Studies at Sacred Heart University, where he is also co-director of the Hersher Institute for Applied Ethics. Dr. Stiltner is the author of a number of books including Faith and Force: A Christian Debate About War with David Clough.
Mentioned in this episode
Anne Applebaum: Liberal Democracy is Worth a Fight
Adam Nossiter: America's Afghan War: A Defeat Foretold?
Bush Won't Bargain for Bin Laden
All Season 2: Review the Show and Win a Book from our Previous Guests!
Follow Casey's Substack
Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Ok, so you're looking for a way to help out Public Theologians Podcast and you'd like to score some swag? Well, here's your opportunity!
For every 5 reviews the show receives on Apple Podcasts, we will be drawing a name out of the hat to win a book! These books will look familiar because, as a loyal subscriber, you've heard the authors interviewed on Public Theologians!
Here's how it works:
-Review us on Apple Podcasts (Here's a video tutorial for the more "ludite-ish" among us)
-Take a screenshot
-Email said screenshot to publictheologianspodcast@gmail.com
Then, for every 5 reviews, Casey will draw a name out of the hat and a lucky listener will get the choice of one of the following books delivered right to your door!
-Jesus and John Wayne (Kristin Kobes Du Mez)
-The Making of Biblical Womanhood (Beth Allison Barr)
-Christians Against Christianity (Obery Hendricks)
-White Too Long (Robert Jones)
-Broke in America (Colleen Shaddox and Joanne Samuel Goldblum)
-Abuelita Faith (Kat Armas)
Action Alert! On Wednesday, September 1st 2021 there will be a protest outside the Montgomery statehouse to make a statement in solidarity with Kinetic Justice, who is on a hunger strike in an Alabama prison.
His comrade, Swift Justice joins us for a second time, along with Nicky from FAM ARM Queen Team to discuss the conditions that sparked Kinetic's hunger strike and the show of solidarity requested.
More information on the conditions and the protest
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Dr. Anthea Bulter joins the conversation to discuss her latest book White Evangelical Racism: The Politics of Morality in America. Our discussion includes the connections of proto-Evangelicals's theology and lynching, what it means to hide behind theological ideology and why Donald Trump's election was not out of character for religious Americans.
Casey and Dr. Bulter also discuss the connections between Billy Graham's anti-communism and Evangelical push-back to civil rights and collective guilt that still goes on today (c.f. CRT, White Fragility discussion) and we explore the racist backlash to Barack Obama. But don't worry, we also discuss what it signaled when candidate Obama threw Rev. Jeremiah Wright under the bus and betrayed the Black church in the process.
This is also the final episode of season 1 of Public Theologians. It's been a blast and we'll be back with some amazing guests in September!
Anthea Butler is professor of religion at the University of Pennsylvania and the author of Women in the Church of God in Christ: Making a Sanctified World. A leading historian and public commentator on religion and politics, Butler has appeared on networks including CNN, BBC, and MSNBC and has published opinion pieces in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and many other media outlets.
Follow Dr. Butler on Twitter
Order White Evangelical Racism
Mentioned in this Episode:
Candidate Barack Obama's denunciation of Rev. Wright 3/18/2008
Rev. Jeremiah Wright's "God damn America" sermon on 9/16/2001
The Southern Rite of Human Sacrifice by Don Matthews
Casey's reflection on Kelly Gissendaner's execution from 2015
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Eric Hall is running for the District 9 City Council seat in Birmingham, AL. A minister, co-founder of BLM Birmingham and co-chair of Our Revolution Birmingham, Eric has worked as a community organizer with a laser-focus on ending poverty, reimagining policing and working for a better future for Birmingham.
In this conversation we get into Eric's background, what motivated him to run for this seat, how his own faith background animates his work and more!
Eric Hall for City Council D9 Birmingham, AL
Eric Hall bio in Birmingham Times
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Lucas Kwong is a professor at CUNY and author of Against Christian Xenophobia, an open letter with 700+ signatories to date. Lucas has been running a campaign since the beginning of 2021 contacting political and religious leaders who peddle in Anti-Asian rhetoric. Particularly after the Atlanta Spa Massacre in March of this year and the resurgence of the largely conspiratorial lab-leak theories, politicians hiding behind the mantle of Christianity from Ted Cruz to Marsha Blackburn and Paul Gosar have helped to reignited a yellow peril for our time. Lucas is hard at work educating us all and inviting us to join with him in his prophetic work.
In this episode we also discuss why CRT was never meant to be a replacement for the gospel and why Bonhoeffer reminds us that generically denouncing hatred is meaningless without naming evil and those who participate in it. We also discuss the connections between race, ethnicity and class! It's a good time, in other words!
Follow Lucas' Work:
https://twitter.com/xenoseimi
https://twitter.com/brotherkmusic
https://www.againstchristianxenophobia.com/
Mentioned in this Episode:
https://www.againstchristianxenophobia.com/explore-more/external-links
https://www.religioussocialism.org/against_sanctified_sinophobia
https://sojo.net/articles/christian-opponents-crt-critical-race-theory-peddle-hollow-salvation
https://therevealer.org/the-yellow-perils-second-coming/
https://sojo.net/articles/its-not-enough-condemn-hate
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Alyssa Aldape, Casey's friend from way back, talks about her experience of being a Latina in leadership of predominantly white churches. The conversation includes immigration under Obama, Trump and Biden and what it means for the church to welcome the stranger (it's much simpler than you might think). We talk about why political representation is meaningless for people still impacted by immoral immigration policies.
We also discuss the 2021 Olympics. From absurd reactions to Simone Biles' withdraw from the team competition for her mental health to Sha'Carri Richardson's exclusion from competition due to marijuana use, this Olympics is really putting racism and sexism on full display.
Simone Biles Withdraws from Team Competition
Olympics Earn Gold Medals in Racism, Sexism, by Alyssa
Follow Alyssa Aldape on Twitter
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Sheila Gregoire, firebrand marriage and sexuality author, researcher and blogger, discusses her latest book The Great Sex Rescue. Based on extensive surveys with 20,000 women the book explores the causes of the 47% orgasm gap between men and women. Sheila and her team analyzed the messages of best selling Evangelical books on marriage and sexuality, to dig down into the harmful effects of hearing and believing nonsense like Every Man's Battle and Love and Respect in the lives.
Along the way Sheila discusses the need for Christian teaching to center around men figuring out what the clitoris is and Casey asks Sheila how it became common to sanctify being an asshole, we discuss much better resources for understanding sexuality and marriage and how the Evangelical obsession with static gender roles protects those with power....because every conversation has both political and theological consequences, particularly when we talk about sex!
Order the book here
https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/
https://twitter.com/sheilagregoire
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Joanne Samuel Goldblum and Colleen Shaddox, the authors of Broke in America (Ben Bella Books, 2021), join Casey for a discussion on their work, the state of poverty in America and the fact that poverty is a policy choice. We get into such topics as privatization of basic human needs, school zoning and whether the Biden administration is doing anything notable to combat poverty on a national scale.
Both authors share how they came to this work as well as the faith traditions (Jewish and Catholic) that brought them to care for the poor in a material way.
We also discuss what it truly means to be on the side of the poor and marginalized (hint: it has much more to do with material restructuring than it does performative gesticulations or interpersonal anti-racist measures) and the fact that Barbara Lee is the real deal (for just one proof of this fact, watch this video right after 9/11, when she stands alone in the House of Representatives - not even Bernie got this one right - and defends her sole vote against Bush's AUMF)!
Order Broke in America here
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Joanne Goldblum is CEO and founder of the National Diaper Bank Network, encompassing more than 200 member organizations that provide diapers and other basic needs to families across America. In 2018, she founded the Alliance for Period Supplies, which provides free hygiene products to the one in four people for whom menstruation means difficulty attending school and work. Joanne has spent her career working with and advocating for families in poverty. She has written op-eds for The Washington Post, US News & World Report, and HuffPost. She has been an ABC Person of the Week and the subject of profiles by CNN, People, and many other outlets. Joanne is an inspiring and in-demand speaker. In 2007 she was chosen as one of 10 Robert Wood Johnson Community Health Leaders on the basis of her work to found the New Haven Diaper Bank.
Colleen Shaddox is a print and radio journalist and activist. Her publication credits include The New York Times, The Washington Post, National Public Radio, America, and many more. She left daily newspapers when an editor reprimanded her for “writing too many stories about poor people” and went to work in a soup kitchen. She has had one foot in journalism and one in non-profits ever since. In states throughout the country, Colleen has worked on winning campaigns to get kids out of adult prisons, to end juvenile life without parole and to limit shackling in juvenile courts. She is a frequently anthologized fiction writer. Her award-winning play, The Shakespeares, and other dramatic works have been performed around the country.
Chris Nelson joins Casey for a second time. Chris found out that a private mega-prison was set to be built right around the corner from his childhood home and he got busy hounding small-town Alabama council meetings,, canvassing neighborhoods and spending every spare moment fighting against the state and corporate powers that be. Thanks to Chris' efforts and that of numerous other activists and community groups, popular sentiment forced large banks to pull out of this insanely immoral investment opportunity.
Chris shares valuable lessons learned, what to look out for in the next (zombie) phase of Gov. Kay Ivey's mega-prison plan and the unglamorous work of showing up where injustice is being done. While this focuses on super-local Alabama politics Chris' story highlights the need for all of us to bring what we have to the fight for justice.
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Mentioned:
https://www.alreporter.com/2021/06/16/gov-kay-ivey-talks-prisons-gaming-and-end-to-unemployment-aid/
https://www.al.com/news/2021/06/alabama-senators-say-state-has-already-has-property-for-new-prisons.html
https://www.fox10tv.com/news/alabama/alabama-lawmakers-explore-prison-options-use-of-covid-relief-funds/article_fcd219e0-ad84-5420-aacd-fae8503286ae.html?block_id=1002701
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8WD75-qjquGCpAHlm72PzA/featured
Dr. Obery Hendricks is on the podcast this week. How does Casey keep getting to talk to these AMAZING guests, you ask? Well, let's not overthink a good thing! In this episode we discuss Dr. Hendricks' forthcoming book, Christians Against Christianity: How Right Wing Evangelicals Are Destroying Our Nation and Our Faith (Beacon Press) and the conversation is rich.
In this episode you'll hear Dr. Hendricks take account of the capitulation of conservative Christianity in the Trump era, why he thinks the term needs to be rethought and why he takes issue with certain leaders whose interests are in anything but leading their people towards social justice and communal flourishing. In the process we also namedrop Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez and Dr. Hendricks plays the therapist role to Casey's anxiety and anger with Tim Keller's libertarian/capitalist-informed worldview.
We also get into distinctions of Trump/Bush(s)/Regan and Clinton/Obama/Biden. According to Dr. Hendricks, are the differences substantive, rhetorical, or other????
Obery M. Hendricks Jr. is a best-selling author, an activist, a religious scholar, a former theological seminary president, and an ordained elder in the African Methodist Episcopal Church. His books include The Politics of Jesus: Rediscovering the True Revolutionary Nature of Jesus’ Teachings and How They Have Been Corrupted and The Universe Bends Toward Justice: Radical Reflections on the Bible, the Church, and the Body Politic. He currently teaches religion and African American studies at Columbia University and is also a Visiting Professor of Bible and Ethics at Union Theological Seminary in New York City.
-Order Dr. Hendricks' forthcoming book, Christians Against Christianity: How Right Wing Evangelicals Are Destroying Our Nation and Our Faith
-Follow Dr. Hendricks on Twitter
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The Reverend Deacon Carolyn Foster, co-chair of the Alabama chapter of the Poor People's campaign, educates us on Rev. Dr. William Barber's Third Reconstruction, how systemic racism impacts the 45% of low-income Alabamians and the ongoing efforts to pressure elected officials to address poverty and the needs of the poor.
We also discuss the water crisis in Uniontown, AL and the solutions available to politicians who claim to hold to Jesus' teachings. After listening to this episode I'm sure you'll join the Poor People's Campaign, if you haven't already!
Mentioned in this episode:
https://gaspgroup.org/
https://gbm.org/about/staff/carolyn-foster/
https://www.poorpeoplescampaign.org/
https://www.facebook.com/AlabamaPPC/
https://www.poorpeoplescampaign.org/committee/alabama/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjb0ffA2hjkGKLvOY_EfhsA
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Mandy Smith, author of the newly released Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith beyond the Baggage of Western Culture, joins Casey to talk about the theological necessity of rest, play and a childlike approach to our spiritual lives. We go into not only how the practice of sabbath can take us deeper into the life of God, but how it can inform our commitment to social justice, activism and truly being a change in the world.
Also mentioned in this episode are amazing quotes from G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, John Steinbeck, Thomas Merton and Jurgen Moltmann!
Order Unfettered Here
Follow Mandy Smith's writing here
Mandy Smith's Twitter
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Dr. Daniel Walden returns to Public Theologians Podcast, this time to discuss his recent article in Commonweal Magazine, titled Gender, Sex and Other Nonsense. In this episode we discuss how our various orthodox Catholic and Protestant Christian theologies can quite easily make space for the experience of our Transgender friends, family, fellow Christians and, well, fellow humans.
We also discuss fun topics such as Lockian philosophy, why Protestants tend to favor noted war criminal Oliver North over the patron saint of children, Fred Rogers, and more!
Articles Mentioned in this Episode:
https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/users/daniel-walden-0
https://christiansocialism.com/herbert-mccabe-class-struggle-capitalism-marxism-christianity/
Daniel Walden's Twitter: https://twitter.com/thauma_idesthai
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Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez, bestselling author of Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation (preorder paperback here!) joins Public Theologians for a second time to discuss the reception of her book and to do some historical analysis (aka gossip?) about Owen Strachen leaving the SBC, Tim Keller asserting that evangelicals are super-diverse. We also discuss the recent exodus of Beth Moore, Jemar Tisbe the #LeaveLoud movement and much more!
Check out all of Kristin Kobez Du Mez's work here: https://kristindumez.com/
Follow her on twitter here: https://twitter.com/kkdumez
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This week Casey is joined by theologian/podcaster/youtuber Mason Mennenga to discuss Process Theology. In addition to taking a deep dive into the tenants, implications and animating affects of Process Theology we cover our shared passion for Religionless Christianity, Death of God theologians, a few inspiring crossover guests and more!
Like the show? Rate it on iTunes so it can reach a wider audience!
Follow Mason's work:
Mason's YouTube Channel
A People's Theology Podcast
https://twitter.com/masonmennenga
https://masonmennenga.com/
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In the wake of yet more violence at the hands of our state in the police killing of Duante Wright, just miles away from the Minneapolis courtroom where former policeman Derek Chauvin is standing trial for the 2020 state murder of George Floyd, words fail us. But still there is a demand to speak clearly and specifically to the need for justice that comes from a rich Christian tradition.
This week Casey reads the final sermon of Archbishop Oscar Romero, a priest in El Salvador who was assassinated in 1980 defending the rights of the poor and the oppressed. I hope that you hear (in Casey's muddled gringo rendition of Spanish names and places) the necessity of speaking clearly, of speaking specifically and of speaking directly to those state agents who are committing atrocities against our fellow human beings in our name.
Mentioned in this episode:
Manufacturing Consent
Christian Peace and Nonviolence: A Documentary History
Killian Noe, Founding Director of Recovery Cafe in Seattle and the Recovery Cafe Network nationwide, joins the conversation this week. Killian tells her story, how the Recovery Cafe embraces and cultivates an atmosphere of belonging, love and acceptance particularly among vulnerable populations. We talk about what the #blacklivesmatter movement and George Floyd uprisings have meant for the community and what it means to lean into concrete change as an organization.
We also talk about some of the policies that make cities like Seattle so difficult to inhabit, from marijuana policy to criminalization of homelessness and Amazon-inspired gentrification.
A personal note from Casey
I really hope you catch a glimpse of the presence that Killian Noe brings to the world. Her kindness, vision and radical hospitality flows out of a deep love for God and an ability to recognize his image in her neighbor. Blessings to you as you listen to what I consider a sacred conversation!
About Recovery Cafe/Killian Noe:
https://recoverycafenetwork.org/
https://www.alibris.com/booksearch?mtype=B&keyword=killian+noe&hs.x=0&hs.y=0
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Casey talks with Jason, the co-chair of Birmingham Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) about our chapter's involvement with the #BamazonUnion drive in Bessemer, AL. We talk about what it means to support union efforts, the great work Birmingham DSA has put in, along with some other amazing local and national organizations. We also talk about how this drive has set up future organizing for workers around Birmingham, around Alabama and everywhere!
Organizing and unionization are theological matters! The voice we give to others and the rights we support for them is a statement of who we believe God to be!
Mentioned in this episode:
Dr. Robin DG Kelley with Rev. Dr. William Barber
https://twitter.com/GrimKim
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Jo Luehmann is a force for good on social media and in real life. This week we chat with her about what it means to deconstruct, decolonize and dismantle white supremacy in and out of Christianity. Jo tells us why she will hold on to hope in spite of the harmful misuses of faith in her life and throughout the history of the church. We also talk about the recent resurgence of the gun control conversation after shootings in Boulder and Atlanta in the context of racial justice, the Black Panthers and MLK.
Follow Jo's work here:
https://twitter.com/JoLuehmann
https://t.co/jGbmGMHMsO?amp=1
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https://twitter.com/caseyhobbs
patreon.com/caseyhobbs
Jerran is back this week to discuss literally nobody's favorite topic...cancel culture. We're only going to talk about this once so listen up! We get into why White, male, Evangelical leaders, in particular have no leg to stand on when they cry about being "canceled" (looking at you Owen Strachen, Al Mohler, et. al.). We also discuss the so-called "cancellation" of Dr. Seuss, why that's mainly nonsense but a good idea (because, you know, the cancelled books are definitely racist).
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Support the show here: patreon.com/caseyhobbs
Notes:
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-12-26-ca-6655-story.html
https://religionnews.com/2020/06/17/evangelicals-perfected-cancel-culture-now-its-coming-for-them/
https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/christians-need-stop-boycotting-stuff/
https://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/uh-john-macarthur-is-urging-his-church-to-stop-supporting-religious-freedom/
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/2020/07/17/evangelicals-hypocritical-loathing-of-cancel-culture/
https://thewayofimprovement.com/2021/02/03/tony-perkins-finds-cancel-culture-in-the-bible-and-other-trump-evangelical-news-including-eric-metaxass-book-launch/
https://www.namb.net/resource/protesting-cancel-culture/
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thoughtlife/2020/10/7723/
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/02/the-cancel-monster
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/06/has-the-american-left-lost-its-mind
https://thephillystatement.org/read/
https://religionnews.com/2013/11/01/madonna-lady-gaga-10-blasphemous-pop-songs-music-videos/
This week Casey interviews Dr. Beth Allison Barr on her forthcoming book, The Making of Biblical Womanhood (Brazos Press). This outstanding book is a study on the deep historical (and not necessarily theological or biblical) roots of patriarchy. Seriously, this book is great and our conversation was a lot of fun. Mentioned in this episode: What does the Epic of Gilgamesh have to teach us about patriarchy? What did Paul really mean in the classic "complimentarian" texts? How does capitalism make the problems inherent in patriarchy worse for women? And, mainly, "how did we get here and where do we go now??" Order The Making of Biblical Womanhood here. Follow Dr. Beth Allison Barr's work here. Support Public Theologians here. Follow Casey's work here.
This week we talk Marxism, Communism, Socialism and Christianity with Olivia Sonell. Olivia writes at workingclasschristianity.substack.com. We also talk a bit about Process Theology and how it can animate action in solidarity with and on behalf of the poor.
Olivia's twitter:
Casey's twitter:
Support Public Theologians here.
Follow Casey's work here.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://workingclasschristianity.substack.com/p/revolutionary-love-part-ii
https://workingclasschristianity.substack.com/p/no-justice-no-pride
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/07/23/catholic-case-communism
Lucas Kwong sits down with Casey and discusses his Open Letter Against Christian Xenophobia. As a Chinese-Canadian-American Christian and assistant professor of English at New York City College of Technology, Lucas has a unique and perceptive take on Christian nationalism and its consequences particularly in the lives of Asian-Americans.
Lucas and Casey discuss the cover prominent white evangelical church leaders (Keller, Piper, Sauls, etc.) give to nationalists by refusing to clearly speak to racism and nationalism. We discuss why this goes beyond rhetoric and into violence against folks that bear the image of God.
Sign the Open Letter Against Christian Xenophobia here.
Support Public Theologians here.
Follow Lucas' work here.
Follow Casey's work here.
Notes:
https://www.againstchristianxenophobia.com/against-christian-xenophobia
https://christiansocialism.com/evangelical-politics-2020-tim-keller/
https://www.redletterchristians.org/at-the-chapels-door-how-bruce-springsteens-jeep-ad-displays-the-roots-of-anti-asian-violence/
https://twain.lib.virginia.edu/roughingit/map/chiharte.html
https://lausan.hk/2020/why-china-is-capitalist/
https://www.inheritancemag.com/
A couple of brief updates on the local Amazon warehouse unionization efforts, and why this is of theological importance. Also a quick highlight of the recent developments within Alabama prisons that should not be overlooked.
Casey also does his best to articulate just who is a theologian and just who is engaged in political action (hint: it's all of us!)
Notes:
https://sfbayview.com/2021/02/alabama-prison-guards-brutally-beat-kinetic-justice-sending-him-to-trauma-unit/
https://newrepublic.com/article/161278/amazon-workers-unionization-bessemer-alabama
https://www.apr.org/term/kinetic-justice
https://www.democracynow.org/2021/2/5/incarcerated_activist_kinetik_justice_others_severely
Kay Ivey - 334-242-7100
Jeff Dunn - 334-353-3883
Kristyn Komarnicki is the Director of Dialogue and creator of Oriented to Love, a program with Christians for Social Action. Oriented to Love is an immersive program that creates space for LGBTQ+ Christians and faith leaders to connect, to hear from one another and to discover "unity that is deeper than agreement." In this episode we hear about the impetus for the program as well as what folks in and out of the church can learn about solidarity and fighting for one another.
Support Public Theologians on Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/join/caseyhobbs
Notes:
https://christiansforsocialaction.org/about-us/our-team/kristyn-komarnicki/
https://christiansforsocialaction.org/programs/oriented-to-love/
In 1932 Dietrich Bonhoeffer delivered a sermon in Berlin titled "The Things Above." Today Casey reads the text in its entirety. Listen to the way Bonhoeffer, speaking in a time of heightened fascist/authoritian/right wing rhetoric and crisis (sound familiar?), has the audacity to direct his hearers to the spiritual realities of the Christian faith. This, he does with the explicit charge that his hearers would take this incomprehensible spiritual truth out into the world to fight the injustice being waged by the strong-armed rulers of his day.
Support Public Theologians Podcast on patreon!!! www.patreon.com/caseyhobbs
Music: Aaron Perman https://soundcloud.com/small-fish
Art: Phil Nellis https://www.flickr.com/photos/el_nellis/
Jerran Hill is back this week to discuss Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s impact on basically everything. We'll focus our conversation on Dr. King's radical commitment to speaking the truth at all costs, to his opposition to the Vietnam War, capitalism and more. We rely also on Dr. James Cone's excellent work Martin and Malcolm in America....and you know how much we love quoting Dr. Cone!
Notes:
https://www.orbisbooks.com/martin-and-malcolm-and-america.html
https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inS9gAgSENE
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/02/02/martin-luther-king-jr-timeline/1061525001/
Hannah Bowman joins Casey this week to discuss the theological underpinnings of prison abolition and alternatives to the current unjust and ineffective U.S. carceral system.
Hannah is the founder and director of Christians for Abolition. She is also the circle coordinator for the LA pilot Circles of Support and Accountability (COSA) program, in collaboration with the Fresno Community Justice Center.
Notes:
http://www.christiansforabolition.org
https://www.episcopalcafe.com/why-christians-should-be-abolitionists-again/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/2018/09/20/a-christian-case-for-prison-abolition/
If we are to take seriously the jubilee Jesus came to bring, how can we be content living in a police and prison state? This week's guest Micah Herskind is an abolitionist currently in Atlanta, GA. Micah was the cocreator of the #8toabolition campaign in the summer of 2020. He is the organizer behind an outstanding slack channel for Christian Abolitionists. Micah is currently working on the Georgia Freedom Letters Project, which builds solidarity and power across prison walls in Georgia through letter writing and political education.
Let us know your thoughts:
Email: publictheologianspodcast@gmail.com
Twitter: https://twitter.com/caseyhobbs
Notes:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/01/george-floyd-protests-cornel-west-american-democracy
https://www.8toabolition.com/
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/defund-the-police
https://georgiafreedomletters.com/joinus/
https://twitter.com/micahherskind?s=20
In this special episode we hear directly from Swift Justice, an incarcerated organizer with Free Alabama Movement. Free Alabama Movement is a grassroots organization founded by men incarcerated in Alabama that supports Non-Violent and Peaceful Protests for Civil and Human Rights. In our conversation we cover a range of topics but focus in on the inhumanity of the profit motive inherent in mass incarceration as we know it in America. Email us at publictheologianspodcast@gmail.com
Links: https://freealabamamovement.wordpress.com/f-a-m-pamphlet-who-we-are/ https://governor.alabama.gov/newsroom/2020/09/governor-ivey-announces-next-phase-of-alabama-prison-program/ https://incarceratedworkers.org/news/let-crops-rot-field https://www.al.com/crime/2019/03/another-inmate-murdered-inside-an-alabama-state-prison.html https://www.wbrc.com/2020/09/06/bibb-co-woman-starts-petition-block-new-prison/ https://www.al.com/news/2019/02/alabama-will-build-3-prisons-for-men-ivey-announces-do-not-publish.html https://blog.globaltel.com/companies-use-prison-labor/
Lauren Sawyer is a Ph.D. student in Christian Social Ethics at Drew Theological School. Her current research focuses on how women and LGBTQ folks develop moral agency under the constraints of evangelical purity culture. Her work combines a critique of capitalism and purity culture and gives us a refreshing look at what might be. Check out Lauren's work at http://laurendeidra.com/
Jerran and Casey run down a few news topics, from Joe Biden's cabinet picks and leaked conversation with civil rights leaders to Beth Moore calling out the Christian nationalism on full display in D.C. over the weekend.
Email us with any feedback or recommended topics!
publictheologianspodcast@gmail.com
Rate/Review on Apple Podcasts and share it with a friend!
Mentioned in this episode:
https://theintercept.com/2020/12/10/biden-audio-meeting-civil-rights-leaders/
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/529858-sanders-hawley-vow-fight-next-week-over-stimulus-checks
https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/beth-moores-condemnation-of-trumpism-is-a-watershed-moment/
Trey Medley joins Casey and Jerran this week to discuss Critical Race Theory and specifically the Evangelical (Southern Baptist Convention even more specifically) freak-out associated with this "worldly theory". We'll talk about what it actually is, we'll name drop Cornel West and James Cone and we'll have a good time examining an important tool in our world today.
If you like what you hear, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts and share with a friend!
You can also email us with any requests for future episodes or general feedback. We'd love to hear from you!
publictheologianspodcast@gmail.com
Trey Medley is an adjunct professor of Philosophical Theology at the Houston Graduate School of Theology. He also blogs at www.why-theology.com
Mentioned in this Episode:
https://thewitnessbcc.com/southern-baptist-seminary-presidents-reaffirm-their-commitment-to-whiteness/
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/subject_specific_writing/writing_in_literature/literary_theory_and_schools_of_criticism/critical_race_theory.html
https://www.baptistpress.com/resource-library/news/seminary-presidents-reaffirm-bfm-declare-crt-incompatible/
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2020/december/southern-baptist-critical-race-theory-debate-crt-seminary-s.html
Our conversation this week is with Alabama prison abolitionist activists Chris Nelson and Morgan Duckett. The state of Alabama is intending on building three private mega-prisons with little community oversight in response to a scathing 2019 Department of Justice report on the state's prison system.
We discuss their work with the church to fight these plans in their communities as we shed light on their important work.
Please rate and review on Apple Podcasts, share with a friend and support our work!
Also let us know if there's a topic you'd like to hear us cover!
Mentioned in this Episode:
https://www.facebook.com/BrierfieldAlabama/
https://www.facebook.com/noprisonfortallassee/
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1150276/download
https://level.medium.com/abolition-for-the-people-397ef29e3ca5
https://www.al.com/news/2020/07/alabama-department-of-corrections-disappointed-by-doj-report.html
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/07/seven-detainees-sued-ice-then-they-were-transferred-to-a-notorious-alabama-jail/
https://theintercept.com/2016/05/10/striking-prisoners-in-alabama-accuse-officials-of-using-food-as-weapon/
https://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/2020/11/30/proposed-brierfield-alabama-prison-could-hurt-water-supplies-attorney-says/6462447002/
https://www.birminghamtimes.com/2020/11/report-alabama-prisons-a-death-trap-for-black-men/
This week, in honor of Thanksgiving, we take a step back and talk with Phil Nellis about rest, sabbath-keeping, why Abraham Heschel should be read by every seminarian and more. And we ask the question, with so much going on in our world, what sense does it make to pause, to slow down and to rest?
Daniel Walden, our guest for this week, has been published in Current Affairs, The Bias and other places. He joins us this week to discuss his own deep dive into the murky depths of nominally religious right wing pseudo-intellectuals from Ben Shapiro, Rod Dreher and more. We also discuss his take on the Democrats' unwillingness to provide concrete, substantive policy options, what this means politically, religiously and how we can do better.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.currentaffairs.org/author/daniel-walden
https://christiansocialism.com/trump-democrats-biden-messiah-evil-christianity/
https://christiansocialism.com/rod-dreher-live-not-by-lies-review/
https://twitter.com/thauma_idesthai
Joe Biden won the presidency this past week (though Donald Trump and others are having a hard time with this fact - I thought facts don't care about feelings, but I digress...) But whether there is a red or a blue color in the White House, there is massive amounts of work that needs to be done on the local level if we are going to pursue justice.
We have the privilege to speak with Sav Miles, a faith-based community organizer in Gadsden, AL. They are doing some amazing work organizing church communities in the fight towards justice and solidarity. We get into what organizing looks like, how we might be a part of this work...because there's some work to do!
Mentioned in this episode:
Block the Brierfield (AL) Prison: https://www.facebook.com/BrierfieldAlabama
Community Protectors Project: https://www.facebook.com/communityprotectorsproject
About Sav Miles: https://toservebetter.harvard.edu/profile/al-sav-miles/
The Dig Radio (Interview with Dr. Cornel West): https://www.thedigradio.com/podcast/what-now-with-cornel-west/
In which Jerran and Casey discuss the partial results of the 2020 election. The votes are still being counted but there's no big referendum on Trump or Trumpism. We discuss what this indicates about the country and the self-serving two parties we all know.
Discussed in episode:
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-us-inability-to-count-votes-is?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxMjQ2ODA2MCwicG9zdF9pZCI6MTc0NDI4MzksIl8iOiIvZ1NZaiIsImlhdCI6MTYwNDUxMDM3OCwiZXhwIjoxNjA0NTEzOTc4LCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTI4NjYyIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.OQq86ex1hHepG6JZqbmRh6GYOGXtTL4KHeFjLDx9Q9I
https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nonvoters-are-not-privileged-they-are-largely-lower-income-non-white-and-dissatisfied-with-the-two-parties/
This week Jerran and Casey discuss Dr. John Piper's recent foray into political action. We discuss some strengths and a lot of weaknesses. We also examine (and compare) Ice Cube's recent news-making as he met with both Trump and Biden's camps to push the Contract With Black America.
Public Theologians is a podcast in which we take as a starting place the James Cone quote that "all theological language is political language."
Mentioned in this Podcast:
Ice Cube on the Contract With Black America: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/ice-cube-trump-campaign-interview-1076681/
John Piper's article "Policies, Persons, and Paths to Ruin": https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/policies-persons-and-paths-to-ruin
1 in 1,000 African-Americans have died from COVID-19: https://www.vox.com/2020/9/29/21494803/presidential-debate-2020-joe-biden-us-covid-deaths
Ok Piper did give a prayer about George Floyd: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-sorrows-of-minneapolis
Forced Hysterectomies in ICE Facilities: https://www.democracynow.org/2020/10/26/ice_irwin_detention_center_invasive_surgeries?utm_source=Democracy+Now%21&utm_campaign=786676583d-Daily_Digest_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fa2346a853-786676583d-192417301
Ta-Nehisi Coats in Vanity Fair: https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2020/08/ta-nehisi-coates-editor-letter?mbid=social_facebook&utm_social-type=paid&utm_brand=tny&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&kwp_0=1731071&fbclid=IwAR00sKHO_74cxcCt0IhvblA3I5rJ4ceMPPBRB-vOKSU_tVlIAHSI180j2HE
This week we speak with Dr. Christopher James, a professor of practical theology at the University of Dubuque Theological Seminary. Our conversation ranges from the general (where is the church in this historical moment) to the specific (how did Mark Driscoll's toxic masculinity shape the landscape of Seattle) as well as from the theological (is the church visible or invisible) to the historical (is "patriotic education" something that should be entertained).
Below are a few links that are mentioned in the show!
If you like what you hear, rate, review or consider supporting!
https://www.amazon.com/Church-Planting-Post-Christian-Soil-Theology/dp/0190673648/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497225955&sr=8-1&keywords=church+planting+in+post-christian+soil
https://www.missiomadison.org/
http://www.danechurches.org/
https://www.lindsayforiowa.com/about
This week we speak with David Brazil and Sarah Pritchard, the Abolition Apostles. Their prison ministry currently reaches over 700 inmates around the country and has over 400 volunteers acting as solidarity pen pals. As their name indicates, the Abolition Apostles also have a strong prison abolition message that is rooted in their theology and practice. We hear from Sarah and David about everything from their prison work to the fundamental evil of the carceral state as a part of the capitalist project. To learn more about Abolition Apostles and how to get involved by checking out their website: abolitionapostles.org Check them out on twitter: https://twitter.com/AbolitionChurch?s=20
This past week saw the unjust grand jury decision on the Breonna Taylor killing and the nomination of Amy Barrett for the next justice of the Supreme Court. We have a lot to catch up on and we try to do it all with an eye for justice, with humor and with hope.
Links Mentioned and Quoted:
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/episode/2020/9/3/cornel-west-the-choice-is-between-disaster-and-catastrophe/?gb=true
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-new-york-archive-joe-biden-donald-trump-a745b2e59de2c85e8bcffce3f8466eeb
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/09/why-amy-coney-barrett-should-not-be-on-the-supreme-court
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54285876
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bv8qyd/breonna-taylor-investigation-witness-changes-story
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/bv8q3w/louisville-swat-team-told-investigators-they-had-concerns-about-raid-on-breonna-taylors-apartment
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/politics/donald-trump-black-empowerment-platinum-plan/index.html
This week Jerran and Casey welcome on, as our very first guest, Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez, author of the excellent recent work on masculinity, militarism and the evangelical church. The book is called Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. We explore the personal ramifications of this important work as well as getting a better understanding of how the White Evangelical church has shaped this moment in time. Dr. Kristen Kobez Du Mez is a professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University. She holds a PhD from the University of Notre Dame and her research focuses on the intersection of gender, religion, and politics. She has written for the Washington Post, Religion News Service, Christianity Today, Christian Century, and Religion & Politics, and has been interviewed on NPR, CTV, the CBC, and by CNN, the New York Times, the Economist, the Christian Post, PBS News Hour, and the AP, among other outlets, and she blogs at Patheos’s Anxious Bench. Check out some of her work and discussion here: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/7/9/21291493/donald-trump-evangelical-christians-kristin-kobes-du-mez https://global.oup.com/academic/product/a-new-gospel-for-women-9780190205645?cc=us⟨=en& https://www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/author/kdmez/
Casey is a recent convert to Marxist political theory. This week Jerran and Casey talk Marxism, Critical Race Theory, Capitalism and various critiques of each through a Cristian theological lens. We also discuss why we think this conversation arises so often from Conservative Christian circles.
https://inthesetimes.com/article/rnc-socialism-republican-convention-trump-2020
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/09/was-jesus-a-socialist
https://christiansocialism.com/marxism-christianity-church-materialism/
https://www.history.com/topics/roaring-twenties/tulsa-race-massacre
Jerran and Casey discuss the prevalence of the "law and order" trope. We get into the history of the usage of this term and its weaponization against uprisings and protests. We get in to some of the theological and societal implications of playing into fear and violence as a political strategy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/02/martin-luther-king-hungry-club-forum/552533/
https://www.wvtm13.com/article/man-dies-in-tuscaloosa-hospital-after-police-use-taser-to-subdue-him/33612685
https://time.com/5846321/nixon-trump-law-and-order-history/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/from-wallace-to-trump-the-evolution-of-law-and-order/
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/trump-law-and-order-politics-nixon-reagan.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/opinion/protests-white-christian-racism.html
Jerran and Casey have been friends for over a decade, having first met in the halls of Beeson Divinity School in Birmingham, AL. In addition to being theologically informed they are both committed to being politically engaged. We'll give you our interpretations of the world we see around us through the lens of our Christianity and our experience in the world.
This week we discuss the reopening of church by John MacArthur of Grace Community Church. Is this a bold defiance of tyrannical government overreach or is this a display of a fundamental misunderstanding of Christian principles? We also dive in to what will perhaps be an ongoing conversation about reparations.
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, share, rate and review!
Mentioned in this episode:
The Case for Reparations by Ta-Nehisi Coates - The Atlantic
Ta-Nehisi Coates is the neoliberal face of the black freedom struggle | Cornel West | Opinion | The Guardian
California pastor defies public health orders, holds services for thousands with no social distancing - CNN
A Time for Civil Disobedience? A Response to Grace Community Church’s Elders : 9Marks
Wisconsin shooting of Jacob Blake: National Guard on way to Kenosha
Jerran and Casey have been friends for over a decade, having first met in the halls of Beeson Divinity School in Birmingham, AL. In addition to being theologically informed they are both committed to being politically engaged. We'll give you our interpretations of the world we see around us through the lens of our Christianity and our experience in the world.
This week we review the Democrats' selection of Senator Kamala Harris for VP and we do a deep dive into Timothy Keller's recent piece entitled "A Biblical Critique of Secular Justice and Critical Theory". Casey and Jerran disagree several times throughout. Let us know which one (if any!) you think is right!
Thanks for listening and subscribe and share if you like!
Mentioned in this episode:
https://quarterly.gospelinlife.com/a-biblical-critique-of-secular-justice-and-critical-theory/
https://relevantmagazine.com/god/watch-tim-keller-speak-out-about-that-anti-social-justice-statement-signed-by-thousands-of-christians/
https://www.newsweek.com/87-democrats-support-medicare-all-though-joe-biden-doesnt-1522833
Jerran and Casey have been friends for over a decade, having first met in the halls of Beeson Divinity School in Birmingham, AL. In addition to being theologically informed they are both committed to being politically engaged. We'll give you our interpretations of the world we see around us through the lens of our Christianity and our experience in the world.
Jerran and Casey have been friends for over a decade, having first met in the halls of Beeson Divinity School in Birmingham, AL. In addition to being theologically informed they are both committed to being politically engaged. We'll give you our interpretations of the world we see around us through the lens of our Christianity and our experience in the world.