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In this episode of the Christian Romance Podcast, my friend and fellow author CJ Milacci shares her writing journey and mission to provide hope-filled stories for teens and young adults. She discusses the lack of books with action and hope that led her to start writing her own, along with a strong pull from God.

CJ shares details about her podcast, Read Clean YA with CJ, where she highlights authors who write clean and exciting stories for young readers.

CJ is an award-winning author who provides stories addressing hard questions and offering hope in difficult circumstances. Her writing journey with Jesus often reflects the message in 2 Corinthians 12:10, “Therefore I take pleasure in my infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”

Listen to Episode 2 Here:

Meet CJ MilacciAward-winning author CJ Milacci writes stories for teens and young adults with heart-pounding action and hope. As the podcast host for Read Clean YA with CJ, she loves talking about books and the deeper themes woven into the pages of each novel. She’s passionate about crafting stories of good overcoming evil, finding hope during seemingly hopeless circumstances, and true acceptance.

Visit her online at www.CJMilacci.com

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CJ’s KickstarterIn a world shattered by chaos and divided by the brutal reign of the Raiders, one woman longs to break free from the shackles of her family’s legacy.Born into darkness and raised to become heir to the ruthless Raiders, Princess Catori yearns for a life beyond the violence and oppression that defines her existence. When she meets Micah, a riverboat captain with an unwavering sense of justice, she sees a glimmer of hope for a different future.

But her grandfather, founder of the Raiders, has a plan for Catori’s life that he refuses to relinquish, and he’ll stop at nothing to see her become all he has prepared her to be, whether she wants that existence or not.

Will Catori and Micah escape to the new life they long for, or will Catori become something she despises?

In this gripping companion novel set in the world of the Talionis Series, readers transport on a thrilling journey with Catori and her companions. Filled with action, suspense, and romance, Abandoned Shores is a story of survival, hope, and the power of love in the face of adversity.

Fans of dystopian fiction and epic romances will be captivated by this heart-pounding tale of adventure, danger, and the unbreakable bond between two unlikely allies.

Visit CJ’s Kickstarter campaign to get a bundle of her Talionis series, including the YA Christian romance Abandoned Shores.

You only have until July 26th, 2024. Check it out today!

You can receive her YA romance Abandoned Shores in a special bundle in her Kickstarter rewards.

Patriotic Love Book GiveawayWe’re giving away a selection of amazing Christian romance novels that honor the courage, sacrifice, and enduring love found in the lives of those who serve our country. It’s our way of sharing heartfelt stories that beautifully weave together patriotism, faith, and love themes.

How to Enter:1. Click Here to Enter 2. Subscribe to the Podcast: You’ll get extra entries and be the first to hear updates if you subscribe 3. Stay tuned: We will announce the winner early next month, so make sure you’re subscribed

Kelly’s Personal Update:My debut novel, Finding Forevermore, is coming soon to Kickstarter! I’ve been working on this book for a long time, and God has shown me so much in the process. I can’t wait to share more about it with you as it goes through the editing process.

Follow on Kickstarter for updates.

I’ve also been writing a novella set in the same world. Once that’s finished, I’ll share more details on how you can get it for free!

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Welcome to the debut episode of the Christian Romance Podcast! Kelly Jo Wilson talks with Heidi Chiavaroli, an award-winning novelist and hope-inspired storyteller who writes Christian romance novels.

Heidi shares her experiences as an author, including her writing background and faith journey. She discusses her unique writing style, which combines contemporary and historical romance in dual-timeline books.

She also talks about the challenges and perseverance required in the writing journey. Heidi shares her favorite Bible verse, Hebrews 12:1, which encourages endurance and keeping our eyes on Jesus.

Heidi’s latest book, The Way Back, is about a woman who seeks shelter at her estranged grandmother’s seaside inn while facing the uncovering of family secrets.

Listen to episode 1 here

Meet HeidiHeidi Chiavaroli is a hope-inspired storyteller writing from the deep curiosity of her own heart. Her debut novel, Freedom’s Ring, was a Carol Award winner, Christy Award finalist, Romantic Times Top Pick, and Booklist Top Ten Romance Debut. Her second Carol Award-winning novel, The Orchard House, is inspired by the lesser-known events in Louisa May Alcott’s life and led her to write The Orchard House Bed and Breakfast series, a contemporary twist on Little Women. Heidi makes her home in Massachusetts with her husband and two sons.

Visit her online at heidichiavaroli.com to receive a free e-book!

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Heidi’s New ReleaseThe Way BackYoung love means everything . . . until it leaves you with nothing.

The summer before her senior year of high school, Laney Jacobs and her best friend jump from a six-story beachside cliff to impress their boyfriends. Laney rose from the water. Her friend did not.

Six years later, when Laney’s troubled mother’s memoir hits the bestseller list airing the family’s destructive secrets, Laney is forced to relive the trauma, this time in the public eye. To escape the scrutiny, she seeks shelter at her estranged grandmother’s seaside inn.

But she can’t reconcile the loving woman with the heartless parent in her mother’s book. As she looks for answers, the ex-boyfriend who’d witnessed her darkest days reappears, stirring up both pain and hope.

When her mother’s vindictive fans threaten her grandmother’s livelihood and the lighthouse Laney has come to love, she turns to the century-old words of a young lighthouse keeper to help her find the courage to move forward. But once truths from the past come to light and old love finds new beginnings, will Laney discover that forgiveness is the only way toward true healing?

Available on Heidi’s website, Amazon, and many other book retailers

Kelly’s Personal Update: My debut novel, Finding Forevermore, is coming soon to Kickstarter! I’ve been working on this book for a long time, and God has shown me so much in the process. I can’t wait to share more about it with you as it goes through the editing process.

Follow on Kickstarter for updates.

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Welcome to the Christian Romance Podcast, where we go behind the books with inspiring Christian romance authors, exploring faith, love, and the journey to bring the story to life.

Listen to the podcast overview:

Each month, we’ll host themed book giveaways, offering you the chance to win a custom selection of Christian romance novels. These giveaways celebrate different themes, from patriotic love to holiday romances, ensuring there’s always something exciting to look forward to.

Subscribe to our newsletter to enter for your chance to win and add inspiring reads to your To-Be-Read list!

Thanks for listening, and I look forward to sharing these wonderful stories with you!

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Today’s devotional episode of the I Witness Podcast dives into the profound message of Matthew 5, where Jesus calls us to be the light of the world. Kelly Jo Wilson shares actionable insights and personal experiences illuminating how we can embody this divine mandate daily. Join us as we explore how to live out one of Jesus’s most empowering teachings and truly be a beacon of hope and love in our world.

Listen to the episode here:

Episode Highlights* We all once were darkness in our sin * Jesus Christ gives us the light we can shine in the world * Darkness is exposed * We must trust and surrender to walk according to the light given to us

Bible Verses for EncouragementMatthew 5:16, NKJV: Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in Heaven

Ephesians 5:8-9: For you once were darkness, but now you are the light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth)

Ephesians 5:10-11 Finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them

Ephesians 5:12-14 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. Therefore He says:

Awake, you who sleep

Arise from the dead

And Christ will give you light

Matthew 9:37-38 Then He said to His disciples, “The harvest truly is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest.”

Proverbs 3:5-6:

Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;

In all your ways acknowledge Him

And He shall direct your paths.

How to be the light: practical steps in your daily walk1. Obedience to God by doing what He’s telling you 2. Trust in the Lord 3. Learn how to listen to God and meditate on His Word, applying it your life 4. Focus on your relationship with God by spending deliberate time with Him 5. Journaling or writing down what He’s saying to you

Resources for YouWant to start journaling your walk with God?I have a resource to help you walk with God in your own unique way.

The Stillness Prayer Journal is a printable prayer journal with over 100 customizable pages all dedicated to simplifying your walk with God.

The journal has cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) techniques combined with Bible verses and Christian-based encouragement to guide your time with Him in a simple, thoughtful way.

Stillness Prayer Journal Includes:* A one-page daily journal for simple goal-setting and reflection * Daily Gratitude * Prayer tracking * Prayer list for requests * Evidence-based Cognitive Behavioral Therapy techniques * Anxiety-focused methods for relief of intrusive and negative thoughts * Positivity journal and affirmations from a Christian perspective * Thought, Emotion, Behavior, and Event Tracking for clarity and focus * Personal reflection pages from a health and spiritual approach

Bonus Pages:* S.O.A.P. Bible study notes pages * Bible verses list focused on anxiety and spiritual rest in Jesus * Blank note pages (grid, dotted, and lined) * Daily planner pages * Monthly planner * Yearly planner * Reflection pages for the week, month, and year with guided prompts

This prayer journal focusing on anxiety relief is meticulously designed to harmonize your spiritual and mental health.

For a limited time, the journal is 50% off the regular price.Get your journal todayThe post How to Be The Light appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In this episode of the I Witness Podcast, we uncover the inspiring story of Stephanie Flohr, an unlikely servant of God who, amidst profound grief, found herself in a dark place, even planning the date she would take her life. Through unwavering courage and a renewed trust in God, listen to how she discovered her true worth and purpose.

Listen to the episode with Stephanie Flohr here

TW: suicidal thoughts, depression, grief

Meet StephanieStephanie Flohr is an unlikely missionary, but she follows God’s call anyway. On May 4, 2020, her husband unexpectedly passed away, and her desires, dreams, and goals went along with him.

Stephanie has traveled to a dark place, planning her own time to meet Jesus in heaven, but God had other plans. Through her unique ministry of encouragement and compassion, she spreads the transformative message of Jesus’ love, offering hope to those who need it most.

Stephanie is determined to share her uplifting story of faith, resilience, and obedience to help others come to know their beautiful worth in Jesus.

Visit Stephanie on her website

Support Stephanie’s mission through Launch International

“I can’t spend a lot of time dwelling on what I am leaving behind, the tears start to flow and the heart hurts. Yes, I will miss so many people. But I know beyond any doubt where the Lord is leading me, allowing me to go and He has a plan and purpose for my life.”

-Stephanie FlohrBible Verses for EncouragementPsalms 147:3, NKJV: “He heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.”

Proverbs 3:5-6:

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;

In all your ways acknowledge Him,

And He shall direct your paths.

ResourcesPaula’s Hope

Paula’s Hope is a nonprofit located in Northwest Arkansas that offers free biblical counseling.

If you are interested, click the link below to get started.

Click here for more information

Are you inspired by Stephanie Flohr’sstory but not sure how to reconnect with God in a difficult time?I have a resource to help you walk with God in your own unique way.

The Stillness Prayer Journal is a printable prayer journal with over 100 customizable pages all dedicated to simplifying your walk with God.

The journal has cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) techniques combined with Bible verses and Christian-based encouragement to guide your time with Him in a simple, thoughtful way.

This prayer journal focusing on anxiety relief is meticulously designed to harmonize your spiritual and mental health.

For a limited time, the journal is 50% off the regular price.Get your journal todayThe post Seeking Divine Purpose: A Widow’s Mission to Spread Love in Ukraine – IW EP 014 with Stephanie Flohr appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Do you need to feel God’s love right now?

In this inspiring devotional episode of the I Witness Podcast, host Kelly Jo Wilson explores the profound concept of God’s unconditional love. Through a heartfelt devotional, she delves into the idea that this divine love cannot be earned but only accepted.

Join Kelly Jo as she shares wisdom on embracing this boundless love and how it transforms our lives.

Listen to the episode here:

Episode Highlights* Struggles are real and when we feel empty we can lean on God and Jesus * We can’t earn God’s love * God’s love is present whether we accept it or not * When we struggle, the Holy Spirit helps speak for us when we don’t have words * Jesus’ life is the evidence of God’s love for us * God loved you before you were created * Nothing can separate you from the love of God

Bible Verses for EncouragementRomans 8:26, NKJV Likewise, the Spirit also helps us in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

Ephesians 2:4-8, NKJV But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

John 15:9 As the Father has loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.

John 15: 12-13 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Resources for YouIn the depths of despair, can one woman find the strength to accept the love of God?

Sarah’s world was shattered two years ago with the loss of her beloved husband. She has been a mere shadow of herself, drifting away from her faith and the God she once leaned on. As she navigates the turbulent waters of grief and single parenthood, her resolve is constantly tested.

This Christmas, Sarah’s struggle reaches a tipping point. With the mounting pressure to provide for her children and the weight of her sorrow, she finds herself at a crossroads.

Will she continue to turn away from God, or will she find the courage to face her pain and embrace the love that has always been there for her?

Hope for the Holidays is a poignant tale of loss, resilience, and the redemptive power of faith. It’s a story for anyone who has ever questioned God’s love in the face of suffering. Join Sarah on her heartfelt journey as she learns to trust in the divine embrace, finding hope and healing in the most unexpected of places.

Get Your FREE Copy HEREThe post How Does God Love Me When I’m Struggling? appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In this episode of the I Witness Podcast, host Kelly Jo Wilson explores how to heal while grieving, and the intersection of grief and faith with guest Stefanie Cabaniss, a specialist in grief support for Christian women. Stef shares her poignant journey of losing her best friend to cancer, a loss that deepened her faith and inspired the creation of the Grief 2 Great Day podcast and ministry. Their conversation delves into the transformative power of trusting God through life’s toughest challenges, highlighting the strength of honesty and vulnerability in prayer.

Meet StefStefanie Cabaniss is the founder of Grief2GreatDay.com, a coach and author specializing in grief support for Christian women. She hosts the Grief 2 Great Day Podcast to support Christian women navigating the difficult journey of grief.

Experiencing indescribable pain and confusion after losing her best friend to cancer, she struggled to create a new life. She earned a master’s degree in Public Health focusing on community grief support. She served as secretary for the Eastern Carolina End of Life Care Coalition.

Her book entitled, Dying to Be Healed, was released in January 2021. Stef is also the creator of What Do I do After the Loss of a Loved One? 4 Actions to Take Now to Cope with Grief a faith-based workshop to help women breathe, laugh, and live again.

Stef contributes to local newspapers and radio and is available to discuss grief support topics such as ‘getting through’ the first year of grief and creating purpose after loss. Stef and her husband, Jeff live in eastern North Carolina.

Interview Highlights* How to heal from grief when it doesn’t have a timeline * Giving ourselves grief grace and what that looks like * Stef has practical tips for how to heal from grief and prepare for difficult days * Stef talks about her anger at God and how her faith changed when coping with the loss of her best friend * Stef shares uplifting ways she and her friend Monica kept positive through the cancer journey with their B-POD * Stef shares wonderful takeaways and resources to help women navigate grief, especially during the first year after the loss

Bible Verses for EncouragementMatthew 11:28-30, NKJV: “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Matthew 6:33: “But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and al these things shall be added to you.”

John 11:35: “Jesus wept.”

Resources for YouGrief 2 Great Day Podcast with Stef Cabaniss

Grief Resources include a Grief Survival Workshop, Loss of Life Coaching, and a support program to help you navigate grief alongside others who understand the devastation and have a common goal for healing.

Facebook Grief Group community

Stefanie Cabaniss knew in those agonizing moments watching her friend dying that the story must be told. As with the Scriptural account of Noah, Abraham, and Moses, this recollection conveys a realistic version of that manner of ‘crazy’ faith.

Dying to be Healed is not a story set in a backdrop of ages past. It is a contemporary, true, bittersweet, and altogether real-life narrative of the final months of the earthly existence of Stefanie’s best friend, Monica.

Monica battled the ravages of stage-four Melanoma but came to strongly and immovably believe that she had been miraculously healed by the power of the Great Physician. This is a story of that unshakeable faith in the midst of rampant physical contradiction.

Get your copy of Dying to Be Healed today

Do you struggle to spend time with God because of anxiety, distraction, or because you’re going through a difficult time?I have a resource to help you walk with God in your own unique way.

The Stillness Prayer Journal is a printable prayer journal with over 100 customizable pages all dedicated to simplifying your walk with God.

The journal has cognitive behavioral therapy techniques combined with Bible verses and Christian-based encouragement to guide your time with Him in a simple, thoughtful way.

This prayer journal focusing on anxiety relief is meticulously designed to harmonize your spiritual and mental health.

For a limited time, the journal is 50% off the regular price. Get your journal todayThe post How to Heal While Grieving Someone You Love – IW EP 012 with Stefanie Cabaniss appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Why is it so easy for us to doubt God?

In this episode of the I Witness podcast, we explore why it’s so easy to doubt God. We dive into 1 John chapter 5, a scripture that shares the unwavering assurance found in God’s testimony. We explore the challenges believers face in their faith journey with a short story and discuss the eternal promise we have in Jesus Christ.

Listen to the devotional episode here:

Episode Highlights* God’s assurance is in Jesus. * Jesus’ existence is the physical and spiritual confirmation of God’s testimony. * Jesus is strong in us when we are weak. * Everyone sins and doubts at some point in their lives. * We have assurance through our relationship with Jesus in prayer * We can lean into the assurance provided by God’s testimony of Jesus Christ

Bible Verses for Encouragement1 John 5: 11-13, NKJV: And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Matthew 11:28-30: Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

Resources for YouDo you struggle with doubt and feeling unworthy?This 7-day devotional takes you through women’s stories of heartbreak, death, disease, and more, with Bible verses to remind you of God’s promises.

You don’t have to earn God’s love. All you have to do is accept it

Get your FREE copy hereThe post How to Battle Doubt with God’s Assurance – IW EP011 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In a deeply moving episode of the I Witness podcast, K.L. Gilchrist unveils her transformative journey from profound heartache to unwavering faith. As she recounts the tragic loss of her teenage daughter, K.L.’s testament to the sustaining power of faith offers a beacon of hope to everyone navigating life’s storms.

Listen as K.L. shares her story of unwavering faith through loss, heartache, resilience, and the consistent embrace of Jesus, even in her darkest hours.

Meet K.L. GilchristK.L. Gilchrist is an author of contemporary Christian fiction for women who want to be entertained, challenged, and inspired by true-to-life stories.

A graduate of Temple University and Palmer’s Eastern School of Christian Ministry(ESCM), K.L.’s career as a technical writer led her back to her first love: writing fiction books.

K.L. writes for women who enjoy reading about faith in the midst of life challenges. She lives with her family in suburban Philadelphia, PA, and is known to dance whenever and wherever she can.

Visit K.L. Gilchrist at her website www.KLGilchrist.com

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Interview HighlightsPersonal Journey and Embracing Faith

– K.L. Gilchrist’s spiritual journey began when she discovered Jesus as an adult. She endured numerous challenges that tested her faith, and her journey from a technical writer to a fiction author showcases her personal and professional evolution.

Impact of the Pandemic and Personal Tragedy

– The mental health repercussions of the pandemic are vast and deeply personal for K.L., with the heart-wrenching loss of her daughter, Jordan. Yet, in such profound grief, her unwavering faith and relationship with Jesus Christ became her sanctuary, offering solace and guidance through the hardest moments.

The Role of Faith in Coping with Loss

K.L. stresses that her unwavering faith and relationship with Jesus are paramount in navigating pain. She emphasizes the necessity of daily prayer and immersing herself in scripture, highlighting the solace and connection they provide. She emphasizes the significance of complete submission to God’s will and the importance of dedicating alone time to foster a deeper relationship with Him.

Recommendations for Nurturing Faith

– For those grappling with grief, K.L. offers practical tips she embraced when walking the arduous journey. She advocates for complete trust in God in all circumstances and suggests getting into the Word of God. The Book of Job and Psalm 22:24 were comforting scripture references for her. Additionally, the book “Holding Onto Hope” by Nancy Guthrie is highlighted as a valuable resource, especially for grieving parents.

Authentic Communication with God

– K.L. promotes genuine and open communication with God, no matter how messy or broken you feel. She believes in being honest with God and talking to Him anytime or anywhere, even in the middle of a J.C. Penny parking lot.

Bible Verses for EncouragementPsalms 22:24, NKJV “For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from Him; But when He cried to Him, He heard.”

The book of Job shows the tremendous losses Job endured and his unwavering faith during trials.

Resources for YouK.L. Gilchrist writes faith-filled stories with wonderful characters. You can find her complete collection on her website.

How far would you go for the wedding of your dreams?Chablis Shields, a purple-haired Jesus chick with a line dance addiction, is engaged to marry her church’s most eligible young bachelor, John Gerald.

After dodging a drone in an unbelievable proposal, she figures she’ll breeze through six months of planning and celebrations and arrive at the altar Instagram-ready and shining like a black diamond.

But the road to marital bliss grows rocky when she discovers her fiancé is far from being a muscular yet picture-perfect Christian. His financial situation isn’t quite what she counted on, but his solution becomes even more difficult to handle.

And that future mother-in-love?

Well, she isn’t exactly on her side. Meanwhile, trauma from her past complicates her decision-making, and lingering issues from John’s dating history trouble their relationship.

With a tight timeline and a village of loved ones waiting for the big day, Chablis must decide: is she truly ready for a lifetime of sacrifice and commitment?

Engaged is a National Indie Excellence Book Award finalist! The book is available through all major online booksellers. You can also request this novel from your favorite local bookshop.

Get your copy of Engaged here

Can a married couple mend their relationship when past issues threaten to drive them apart?Tracey and her husband, Dr. Brian Jones, have much to celebrate. They’ve been married for more than twelve years, their son is doing well in college, and a new baby is on the way.

However, small resentments still exist beneath the surface of their relationship.

When Tracey betrays Brian’s trust in order to provide emotional support to a family who helped her in the past, battle lines are drawn in their household. Will Tracey be able to hold on to her marriage and family when her past and present collide?

Holding On is available through all major online booksellers. You can also order this story from your favorite local bookshop.

Get your copy of Holding On here

A healing book for those in the wake of life’s devastating storms.
We can never plan for the unexpected turns of this life that sometimes lead to great personal suffering. Sometimes that suffering can overshadow everything and threaten to pull us under.

Nancy Guthrie knows what it is to be plunged into life’s abyss. Framing her own story of staggering loss and soaring hope with the biblical story of Job, she takes you by the hand and guides you on a pathway through pain―straight to the heart of God.

Holding On to Hope offers an uplifting perspective, not only for those experiencing monumental loss, but for anyone going through difficulty and failure. (Includes an 8-week study on the book of Job for readers who want to dig deeper into what the Bible says about dealing with suffering and grief.)

Get your copy of Holding On To Hope here

The post Unwavering Faith Through Tremendous Loss – IW EP 010 with K.L. Gilchrist appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

Holding On to Hope: A pathway through suffering to the heart of God

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In this episode of the I Witness podcast, we are honored to have Kathy Brasby share her extraordinary journey of how she found hope in the midst of faith, love, and loss. Kathy navigates the complexities of life’s ups and downs, always steadfastly believing in God. Kathy bears her soul and tackles the challenging questions about God’s role in our suffering. Her narrative takes a painful turn as she recounts her endeavor to understand hope.

For women going through phases of grief and brokenness, Kathy’s story serves as a testament that you are never alone, even in your darkest hours. Tune in for an episode that promises to tug at your heartstrings and offer a glimmer of hope in the face of life’s most challenging moments.

Listen to the interview with Kathy Brasby hereMeet KathyWhen Kathy was a little girl, her aunt confronted her mother: “Can’t you teach her not to ask so many questions?”

This is Kathy’s worst trait and her best: she is curious. She loves to learn and study.

She’s a former journalist and also has been blogging for a number of years. She published Cutting Through Despair: Dare to Hope in 2022 with stories about people – modern-day and biblical – who overcame hardships.

Her Christian faith is the foundation of all her work.

Her BA is in English, and she also holds an MA in Theological studies. She lives on a hobby farm in northeast Colorado and has six children and ten grandchildren.

A favorite theme in her stories is overcoming – and some stories are serious.

Connect with Kathy on her website or the following social media channels

Instagram, Facebook, Goodreads, Twitter, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube

Key highlights from the interview:* Kathy Brasby touches on the power of faith in finding love and companionship, revealing how she met her husband at church after losing his first wife in a tragic accident. Kathy’s story serves as a testament that sometimes, even when we least expect it, new beginnings can unfold in unexpected places. * Opening up about the raw emotions of experiencing a miscarriage, Kathy talks about feeling hollow and wrestling with anger and distance from God. Her journey offers a candid look at the internal turmoil that comes with grief. The difficult feelings she grapples with are a reminder that it’s okay to be angry and to question your faith during times of hardship. * Kathy’s life takes a heart-wrenching turn when her husband becomes seriously ill and eventually passes away. Her experience grappling with this devastating loss while still holding onto her faith offers a glimmer of hope for women navigating their own personal tragedies. Even through intense pain, there can still be room for hope and spiritual connection. * Kathy’s view of God’s love as a relentless and unconditional “waterfall” serves as an uplifting message for women facing grief and brokenness. According to Kathy, God’s love isn’t conditional upon our readiness to accept it. It is ever-present and powerful, waiting for us even when consumed with sorrow or anger. This imagery could be a comforting reminder that you’re never truly alone in your struggles. God’s love is always there, waiting to envelop you when you’re ready to receive it.

Bible Verses for EncouragementHabakkuk 3:17-19, NKJV

Though the fig tree may not blossom,

Nor fruit be on the vines;

Though the labor of the olive may fail,

And the fields yield no food;

Though the flock may be cut off from the fold,

And there be no herd in the stalls—

Yet I will rejoice in the Lord,

I will joy in the God of my salvation.

The Lord God is my strength;

He will make my feet like deer’s feet,

And He will make me walk on my high hills.

To the Chief Musician. With my stringed instruments.

Psalms 23:4,

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,

I will fear no evil;

For You are with me;

Your rod and Your staff, they comfort me.

Resources for YouWe all want hope, but we aren’t sure what it is or even if it can be had. How does one find hope? Cutting Through Despair: Dare to Hope shares stories of people wrestling with hardships. When I asked each, “How did you find hope in these horrendous circumstances?” they told me. Discover with me how these people become overcomers. And how you can too.

Get your copy today, click here

Grief 2 Great Day

Empowering Christian women to understand their journey, deepen their faith, and navigate daily life.

Listen to the Grief 2 Great Day Podcast with Stef Cabaniss

Sponsored by The Wilson Shop on Etsy

Get 50% off all gift items for a limited time.

The post Finding Hope and Overcoming Loss: Kathy Brasby’s Story of Faith and Resilience, IW EP 009 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In the latest episode of the I Witness Podcast, Kelly Jo dives deep with CJ Milacci into a compelling dialogue about faith, life challenges, and the transformative power of community.

Their candid conversation navigates CJ’s unique life experiences from the Disney college program to her spiritual immersion in Italy, shedding light on the significant role of faith in shaping her responses to life’s twists and turns.

A dark time had CJ questioning her purpose. She discusses how she battled loneliness and a loss of direction that caused her to drop to her knees.

Listen to Part 1 here

IW EP008 CJ Milacci Part 1

Listen to Part 2 here

Meet CJ Milacci

CJ writes stories for teens and young adults with heart-pounding action and hope. As a referee, she’s always relearning the hard lesson that it’s impossible to make everyone happy, and she’s discovered that stories can be found anywhere, even on a lacrosse field. She’s passionate about crafting stories of good overcoming evil, finding hope amid seemingly hopeless circumstances, and true acceptance.

Visit her website

Connect with CJ on Instagram & Facebook

Interview Highlights

CJ’s story touches on many different themes, such as overcoming isolation, the reality of faith in dark times, and being honest with God during life’s greatest challenges. Kelly and CJ offer insights into the blend of personal journeys.

The top takeaways that really encompass the themes of the podcast discussion between Kelly and CJ are:

Incorporating Faith into Everyday Challenges: Both Kelly and CJ discuss how their faith has been a guiding force in their lives. Whether it’s confronting isolation or handling the life challenges of unfamiliar emotions, CJ Milacci shares how faith plays a pivotal role in shaping her decisions. Their experiences emphasize the significance of faith in everyday life, not just during profound spiritual moments.
Community and Connection: The podcast highlights the importance of a religious community and the human need for connection. CJ’s contrasting experiences at Disney College and in Italy underline the significance of spiritual fellowship. Fellowship grounds and broadens experiences.
Empathy and Vulnerability: CJ’s interactions with young people from various backgrounds showcase the need for understanding and empathy. CJ discusses how the differences in upbringing and experiences of others shed light on the power of genuine connection.
God’s Guidance through Life Transitions: Kelly and CJ touch upon surrendering to God’s plan, even during life’s challenges. CJ’s shift from direct youth ministry to writing emphasizes God’s role in guiding individuals through various phases of life. CJ’s personal challenges have made a broader impact, and the same can happen for us.
Addressing Young Adult Issues: CJ gives a raw account of the issues facing young adults today, many fearing judgment and being shunned by the church if they share what’s truly on their hearts.
Struggling With Doubts: CJ shares how most of us struggle with doubt and question God. Thus, the enemy tries to isolate us, but she encourages us to reach out and talk about what’s happening in our lives. It’s okay to tell our problems to God, no matter how awful.

You’re not alone.

Bible Verses for Encouragement

Galatians 3:28, NKJV: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”

Luke 12:7: “But the very hairs on your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.”

Psalms 139:14: “I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Marvelous are Your works, And that my soul knows very well.”

2 Corinthians 12:9: “And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

Resources for You

Check out CJ Milacci’s two-time, award-winning book Recruit of Talionis.

“Forget where you came from. Forget the life you knew. You are now recruits of Talionis!”

America has fallen.

Seventeen-year-old Bria Averton grew up in a small town of survivors near the ruins of Portland, Maine. It’s all she’s ever known — until she’s kidnapped along with hundreds of other teens and brought to the city of Talionis. A city no one knew existed.

The soldiers tell them the intense trainings are for the good of the survivors, and Bria resists being forced into a new life as a recruited soldier. But she soon finds the dangers in the city are greater than she imagined.

Escape is impossible, and Bria fears drowning in the evil of the city… and the guilt from her own past. But can she find hope, even here?

Get Recruit of Talionis today!

Fugitive of Talionis is in production, but you can preorder here.

Stay updated on release dates and more by subscribing to CJ’s mailing list at www.CJMilacci.com The post Navigating Life’s Challenges: From Isolation to Inspiration -IW EP008 with CJ Milacci, Part 2 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In the latest episode of the I Witness Podcast, Kelly Jo dives deep with CJ Milacci into a compelling dialogue about faith, life challenges, and the transformative power of community.

A dark time had CJ questioning her purpose. She discusses how she battled loneliness and a loss of direction that caused her to drop to her knees.

Listen to Part 1 of the interview here

IW EP008 CJ Milacci Part 1

Meet CJ Milacci

Visit her website

Connect with CJ on Instagram & Facebook

Interview Highlights

The top takeaways that really encompass the themes of the podcast discussion between Kelly and CJ are:

Incorporating Faith into Everyday Challenges: Both Kelly and CJ discuss how their faith has been a guiding force in their lives. Whether it’s confronting isolation or handling the life challenges of unfamiliar emotions, CJ Milacci shares how faith plays a pivotal role in shaping her decisions. Their experiences emphasize the significance of faith in everyday life, not just during profound spiritual moments.
Community and Connection: The podcast highlights the importance of a religious community and the human need for connection. CJ’s contrasting experiences at Disney College and in Italy underline the significance of spiritual fellowship. Fellowship grounds and broadens experiences.
Empathy and Vulnerability: CJ’s interactions with young people from various backgrounds showcase the need for understanding and empathy. CJ discusses how the differences in upbringing and experiences of others shed light on the power of genuine connection. Navigating her own struggles helped her appreciate the transformative impact of being genuinely seen and understood.
God’s Guidance through Life Transitions: Kelly and CJ touch upon surrendering to God’s plan, even during life’s challenges. CJ’s shift from direct youth ministry to writing emphasizes God’s role in guiding individuals through various phases of life. Personal challenges can be channeled into a broader impact when combined with faith.
Addressing Young Adult Issues: CJ gives a raw account of the issues facing young adults today, many fearing judgment and being shunned by the church if they share what’s truly on their hearts.

Bible Verses for Encouragement

Galatians 3:28, NKJV: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 8:28: “And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.”

Resources for You

Check out CJ Milacci’s two-time, award-winning book Recruit of Talionis.

“Forget where you came from. Forget the life you knew. You are now recruits of Talionis!”

America has fallen.

Escape is impossible, and Bria fears drowning in the evil of the city… and the guilt from her own past. But can she find hope, even here?

Get Recruit of Talionis today!

The post Navigating Life’s Challenges: From Isolation to Inspiration -IW EP008 with CJ Milacci appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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This episode of the I Witness podcast spotlights a compelling story that navigates the often murky waters of mental health and faith. We feature an open-hearted conversation with Christy Boulware, who courageously shares her battle with severe panic attacks, fear, and anxiety. From feeling like she was dying to nearly losing hope, her journey is an intense one, full of desperate moments.

However, amidst the tumult, Christy discovered a lifeline in an unexpected place. This interview will explore her transformative journey from the depths of despair to a place of hope and healing. Whether you’re grappling with similar issues or seeking insights into mental health from a faith-based perspective, Christy’s candid discussion offers relatable experiences, wisdom, and a testament to the healing power of faith.

Kelly: Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host, Kelly Jo Wilson, and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. We have a great show today about overcoming fear and anxiety when you feel powerless. Our guest is my friend Christy Boulware.

Christy is an author, speaker, and podcaster, but first, a passionate follower of Christ. She’s also the wife of a hunky man named Troy and a mom of three beautiful children. With a deep desire to free women and teens from the chains of fear and anxiety, Christy founded and currently leads the not-for-profit Fearless Unite.

Through conferences, workshops, retreats, bible studies, and devotionals, Christy speaks and rights about drastically decreasing the alarming statistics of anxiety in our world. Welcome to The I Witness Podcast, Christy. I’m so happy you’re here.

Interview with Christy Boulware about her panic and anxiety disorder

Christy: Kelly, thank you for having me. We have an important conversation to tackle today, don’t we?

Kelly: Yes, absolutely. I love your mission and what you’re doing. I love that you’re reaching out to women and teens about this pressing issue. Fear and anxiety have been rampant, especially in the past three years since the pandemic.

There’s a heightened awareness, which as a nurse, I can say that I actually appreciate. I feel like there was such a stigma in the past of anybody struggling and having these different thoughts.

I appreciate the awareness nowadays, but I still feel like it can be so much more robust. That’s why I adore what you’re doing.

Why don’t you tell the listeners about your journey, background, and journey with Jesus through your panic and anxiety disorder?

What did your journey look like?

A surprising wake-up call

Christy: I grew up a Catholic and like to tell people I was a C E O Christian, which is Christmas, Easter only. That was my journey, and I’m sure somebody is listening on the other side, saying yes, I grew up that way too.

God was important to me, but I didn’t need him. I didn’t rely on him. It wasn’t a surrender in any way, shape, or form. So really, because I like to say that I was superwoman, I was kicking butt, taking names, climbing the corporate career ladder, doing great for myself, and had always just gone after success and accolades and titles.

Throughout high school and then my college career, I was moved into traveling to New York City to try to make it big on Broadway. I was always chasing after something that left me with nothing, truly.

It wasn’t until I was about 25, in 2011, that I had my first panic attack on the sunny beaches of Cancun.

I was just sipping on a fruity drink, and at that time, I was not committed to following Jesus at all.

I was reading a gossip magazine, and out of nowhere, I just had this shortness of breath and impending doom. I had to get up and walk, and I didn’t know it, but I experienced my first panic attack.

Mental illness doesn’t look the same for everyone

I was a corporate sales director, medical sales, and workaholic. My job was everything to me. When I landed back in my hometown after a nice vacation and opened my email, I missed 200 emails.

I freaked out. How am I going to get all this work done?

Then the weirdest thing happened. I started getting black dots in my eyes and paralysis on the right side of my body. I call it paralysis, but it was like tingling. It was almost like weird tingling feelings. Have you ever stomped your brakes when somebody cut you off, and then suddenly you feel a jolt of adrenaline go through you? It’s a tingly pins and needles feeling.

That’s the feeling that I had in my body. You want to shake it off and question what is going on.

Panic and anxiety took over, and it got worse

It just got worse.

When I got home, I started having mini panic attacks. I didn’t know what they were, but I couldn’t sit still.

My chest felt extremely tight. I was having GI issues, and this went on for several days. It got to the point where I had paralysis on the right side of my body.

So, it was no longer the tingling. It was no movement. I couldn’t feel it.

I called my primary care physician in the middle of the night, and he says, “Christy, I think you’re having a stroke. You need to go to the emergency room. Right now.”

At that point, Kelly, any peace or anything is completely gone when a doctor tells you you’re having a stroke.

So, of course, my husband rushes me there, and they do the whole nine yards. They admit me to the hospital and do an MRI, cardiac screening, and all the tests you can possibly do. A day later, the doctor says, “Hey, Christy, you’re okay. Everything checked out just completely fine.”

You wish they would say something different at that moment because you feel like you’re dying.

“I felt like I was dying”

I literally felt like I was dying.

There was no way I was okay … to the point where I wanted to punch him in the face. I’m like, “There’s no way. Check the test again. This can’t be possible. I feel like I’m dying.”

He looked at me and said, “Christy, you’ve got panic and anxiety, and that’s what’s going on right now. I’m going to write you a prescription for Xanax,” but sent me home. I had to follow up with my primary care physician.

It snowballed completely out of control afterward, to the point where I had back-to-back panic attacks, and my body had a nervous breakdown.

That’s the beginning of my journey of learning how to figure out fear, panic, and anxiety and overcome it.

Kelly: It’s so funny that you said that you wished he would’ve said something different because, in reality, the last thing you want is for the doctor to say you’re having a stroke.

But there is a certain comfort when he gives you the answer. It’s almost a tangible thing, right?

You know how you’re feeling. I mean, for days you experienced this. So for the doctor to say here’s a prescription for one medication and send you home … it turns your world upside down.

Feeling hopeless without answers

Is that how you felt? Like, what are you going to do now? You had to figure it out now, right?

Christy: Yes, and that’s why I’m so passionate about this work because I felt hopeless when the doctor just looked at me. God love him. He was doing the best he could. He was doing what he was told to do.

They don’t have time to sit down with you and go, “Hey. How are you really feeling, and do you know your thoughts matter?”

They don’t have time to counsel you, teach you, and educate you on what fear, panic, and anxiety is, what it does to your body, and what the medication will do to help you.

They don’t, so they give you these things, and you walk out of there thinking, “Wait a minute. What’s next? What do I do now?”

The worst of the panic and anxiety was yet to come

That was truly the journey. The hell I experienced after I went home from the hospital was worse than when I first went. The panic attacks kept coming and coming, and I know now that my body was stuck in flight or flight.

Because of the fight or flight, I had back-to-back panic attacks. But I didn’t know why that was happening to me. I’m the kind of person that wants you to tell me why, and then I’ll understand. Teach me what this medicine is going to do to my body. But until you teach me, I won’t trust you, and I won’t take it.

Another part of my journey was learning what antidepressants do and why they are helpful. In my darkest moments, I had back-to-back panic attacks, hadn’t slept in weeks, and had hair falling out of my head. I was losing weight rapidly. I had suicidal thoughts, Kelly. I didn’t think I was going to make it out of that.

The darkness was overwhelming

The darkness was so bad. The kingdom of darkness whispered to me, “You’re never going to get out of this. This is going to be your life forever. Why don’t you just use those guns?”

My husband kept hunting guns in the corner of our bedroom, and they weren’t loaded. Still, it was just this visual representation of what could happen if I went ahead and just did it because, honestly, the hell that I was going through the torment.

I mean, I don’t wish panic and anxiety on anyone. It is straight from the pits of hell.

It’s so debilitating, awful, and so scary that I couldn’t catch my breath. I would have one, I would have a minute, and then another one would come. I liken it to like a marathon. It was like I would run a marathon, be done, and then another one would happen.

It sounds dramatic, but anybody listening on the other side who has been through a panic attack is saying, “I know what you mean. I know what that means.”

Imagine having a hundred of them back-to-back for three weeks straight. It was awful.

The torment was almost worse than death

Kelly: It sounds, it sounds awful. So for three weeks, you were having this. I’m so sorry you had to go through that, Christy. As you said, it’s torment. It’s just utter torment.

Looking at this visual of a gun and the lies you’re hearing in your mind, like this influence, as if that’s a solution.

It’s a complete lie and just attacking you.

So what would you say was the moment that you felt any peace or real solution was coming?

What did it take for you after that time to actually come out of that?

What stopped it or at least halted it enough for you to say, “No, this, I have to get help for this.”

Two miracles brought hope

Christy: Two what I call mini miracles took place. One was when I was in my bathroom and knew this wasn’t normal. Now, I realize I just told you all that I was having back-to-back panic attacks. So you might think I’m crazy for saying this, but I was in my bathroom, and I heard this still, small voice say to reach out to a woman I had not heard or seen from in about seven years.

She was a college roommate of mine. It was a peaceful voice. It was a reassuring voice, and I knew. Even though I was not a follower of Jesus at that point, I knew it was God. I knew it was God leading me.

So, I reached out to this woman and found out she had been hospitalized and gone through the exact same thing that I was going through.

She was three years ahead of me, and poured wisdom over me. She told me books to read. She told me to take my medication from the doctor. But the most important thing she said to me was, “Christy. You will not get through severe panic and anxiety disorder without a real relationship with Jesus Christ.”

Surrendering your panic and anxiety to God

That was a moment where I was like, I’ll do whatever it takes, whatever God asked me to do. This is hell. Please get me out of it.

After that, I had a moment of surrender where I was down on my knees, looking up at a little cross. That, up until this point, was just a symbol. It meant nothing to me.

I look up at this cross, and I’m down on my knees, and I say, “God, please help me. I surrender.”

Now, Kelly, I didn’t know what I was saying at that point. It was desperation. I surrendered.

“I promise to dedicate my life to you if you will just get me through this. Please, God, please.” That was my surrender moment.

That was my moment of okay, God, I’m not in charge. I’m not superwoman. I realized that my superwoman cape was strangling me, and I needed to lay it at the feet of Jesus. That was my surrender moment.

An unexpected blessing

That evening, the coolest thing happened. My husband came in, and he prayed over me. Now, here’s what’s important.

My husband and I had never prayed together as a married couple ever. Again, he felt the same way. He grew up in a much deeper relationship with Jesus than I did. But we didn’t have a problem with God.

We just didn’t need him until we did.

The moment when he came home and realized I had blankets over the hunting guns. He said, “Hey, what’s that all about?”

I said, “I was tempted to use them,” and fell apart in his arms.

He hugged me and said oh my gosh. He realized he couldn’t fix this. He got wise counsel from godly men, who told him, “You need to pull your wife in and pray over her.”

So he did. He prayed over me that night.

That was the first night in three weeks that I slept and was able to keep some food down, and that was my turning point.

That’s when hope started to come in, and I realized that I would get through this, but I needed to surrender to Jesus first.

Letting go and giving it to God when it’s impossible

Kelly: That is so powerful, and I thank you so much for sharing this with us and being vulnerable because it’s so hard. Especially for somebody like you. You identified yourself as a workaholic and wanted to have this control and do your own thing.

For having that kind of mentality and wanting to figure out the solutions to whatever’s happening, to say, “I didn’t really need God” and “I didn’t have a relationship with him,” then to surrender … for somebody who’s so used to figuring it out on their own and then to lift it up to him fully is very difficult. Very, very difficult.

I totally understand that. That’s I am wired as well especially being a wife and mom. We want everybody to be okay, and it’s all very well intended. You just want to take care of everybody and be able to do whatever you can do.

But that surrender, giving it up to him, holding your hands, and letting go is scary. It may not be as scary as what you’re experiencing, but it’s still pretty scary because you don’t know the outcome. You don’t know what his will is going to show you.

Struggling to let God be strong when we are weak

I think he wants us to take that step. He wants us to let him be strong when we can’t and for us to rely on him fully. I love that your husband prayed over you. That is amazing and beautiful, especially if that’s not something you guys really did.

That is such an amazing picture of the two of you coming together in your faith and giving it all, and laying it at Jesus’ feet, laying it at God’s feet.

That’s just beautiful. I love that you started to see hope.

After that, I was going to ask how did you fully surrender. Sometimes it is your spouse or somebody close to you to help. So I love that he worked within your husband too.

So what happened after that? So after you started to see a bit of hope and peace and, my goodness, I love that God just led you to this woman who has such wisdom for you.

Do you feel like you were going well for a while, and then you had a couple of setbacks? What did the journey look like afterward? The road to recovery, if you will.

Recovery was on the horizon

Christy: The road to recovery was about 18 months, and I say it took me my whole life to get into this mess. I’m so grateful that it was an 18-month recovery process .

Then I actually felt like a normal human being again. I had to go through intense Christian therapy. I did take the medication, and I’m so grateful that I did. After those 18 months, I realized I was doing well enough to start weaning off the medication.

So many people ask me, are you still on medication? I’m not, but it’s okay if you still are. I think that people need to understand that.

There’s much work that needs to be done, and my personal conviction is that if you’re going to take antidepressants, it needs to be with therapy as well so that you can really get to the root of it.

I had a wise primary care physician. Part of my journey after a hospital visit is that you have to follow up with your primary care physician. When I did that, I was so out of control with panic in his room that I couldn’t even sit to get my vitals done.

A diagnosis of panic and anxiety disorder didn’t bring instant relief

That’s how anxious I was. He asked me all these questions, saying, “Christy, how’s your marriage? How’s your children? Is everybody else healthy? Are you having any financial issues?”

I said, no, doc. No, no, no. My life is great. I’m making tons of money. My husband’s amazing. My children are healthy. I have no reason to be panicked.

They still had paper records at this time, and thumbing through the papers, he looked at them, and said, “Okay, how many hours do you work a week?”

Then I’m proud, right? I thought being busy was a badge of honor.

So I say, “I’m a workaholic. It’s like 80 hours a week.”

He said, “You have severe panic and anxiety disorder, Christy.”

Facing the truth about recovery from panic and anxiety

I thought, wait, what? No, not me. I’m the girl that’s got it all together. There’s no way I have this.

He looked at me with so much wisdom. He literally says, “Christy, I’m going to give you some medication, and it will help. But if you don’t go home, do the work, and figure out how you got into this mess and why you’re here today, then here’s what will happen.

You will keep coming back to my office, and I will have to keep increasing your prescription until I can’t give you any more help. So I suggest you really go home and do the hard work.”

At that point, his lips were moving, but everything from that moment on, was a blur.

I thought, “How did I get here? How did I get here to a severe panic and anxiety disorder.”

That was my 18-month journey, going home and understanding fear and anxiety, who God is, and why he is important. Questioning why I am so obsessed with the applause and approval of men, success, titles, achievements, and money.

Taking a real look inside yourself to discover why

Getting to the root within yourself is half the battle

Why does all that stuff matter to me? Why am I chasing after it?

I had to deconstruct that and figure out how I got into the mess. That was the therapy- taking the medication and diagnosing my soul issues. Getting to the deep-rooted parts from my childhood, why success was so important to me, and why I was trying to prove my worth to the world.

Why does that matter?

I had to do a deep dive that for about 18 months.

Kelly: Wow. I love that your physician told you that because I feel like it’s just so real. Even if you didn’t know what he meant, at that moment, you already saw that it would be a journey.

But it’s just so true. As a nurse, I have seen many situations where we try to equip people. But it’s hard when it comes to panic, anxiety, and different disorders or things like that.

I love that he said he could do certain things, but it won’t be enough.

That’s why I love that you said it was the medicine and the therapy.

You also said something great about medicine and therapy. It’s like God and science work together. They don’t have to be independent of one another.

Sometimes there’s a little bit of a stigma about praying yourself out of it, even within a Christian community.

Praying yourself out of panic and anxiety isn’t the only answer

Why can’t it just be your faith?

Because God absolutely works miracles every day, healing still occurs. Some people are fully healed from horrible things they’ve gone through. But other people aren’t.

God created science. He is the father of all creation. He created all this together, and I feel like there is a real blessing to be had with many therapies and different things to help you do that work.

Why don’t you talk about what you think is that healthy balance between your faith and the medication?

Christy: If someone would’ve come to me while I was having back-to-back panic attacks, suicidal thoughts, not being able to eat or sleep, and would’ve walked in and said, here’s a Bible, read your Bible, pray more. I would’ve been so deeply wounded.

Because I couldn’t. I physically could not. I couldn’t read my Bible.

My brain was so stuck in overdrive that I couldn’t even pray. So, I want our faith community to hear that prayer and scripture are important. I believe in it 100%.

I believe if God wanted to, in his sovereignty, come down and erase every panic attack I was having and heal my out-of-control body, he could have done it in a second.

I believe our God is that powerful.

God has the power, but His will might be different than ours

However, he chose not to do that for me. He chose to walk me through the problem of panic and anxiety so that I could understand his promises.

That’s how my journey went down. I don’t think I would be where I am today. My faith would not be as strong if I didn’t go through that trial because now my pain is my purpose. I get to turn around and help people overcome fear and anxiety.

So with the faith part of it, there’s also a physical part of it. We’re body, soul, and spirit, right?

The physical parts of our bodies matter. The science behind it was that I was overworking and overusing my body for my entire life. I was a workaholic and not dealing with unresolved conflict, having tons of pride in my life, thinking about me, myself, and I.

Years of that created the actual nervous breakdown that I had.

My body was stuck in fight or flight. So, on the sunny beaches of Cancun, when I was resting, my body said, huh, this is weird. I’ve never felt rest before. So it looks as if it’s a threat. That threw my body into overdrive.

That was the actual science that was happening in my body. Now I could take some medication to calm all of that down. I can believe and wait for a miracle. I can pray.

Blessings come in different forms

But what if I just do all of that together? Because together, that will help me find the healing I need. The balance … if I sat on a teeter-totter right now, and it was just me on that teeter-totter, and I was jumping up and down trying to enjoy that teeter-totter.

You’d be like, Hey, Christy, do you want me to join that? Because you’re going to have a lot more fun if we teeter-totter together, right?

That’s what the medication was for me. My medication helped balance out my body so that I could return to the enjoyment I needed and the life I needed. So I could have the mental fortitude to understand what was going on and work on my spiritual life.

For that, I’m incredibly grateful. But, I just feel like we need to have a more holistic approach to the mental health world.

We need to understand that the medication, can work. Now, here’s where it gets a little tricky. I also feel like we over-prescribe antidepressants because we need to get to the bottom of our crap.

We need to get to the bottom of what’s really happening in our lives. So we can’t just go to the doctor, say, throw me an antidepressant, and then put a bandaid over what’s happening in our life.

That’s why I think my doctor was such a godsend, because he told me, I’m going to give you this, and it will help. But if you don’t go home and do the work, it won’t help you anymore.

Mental health support for panic and anxiety has different forms

That’s the thing that we’re missing. We’re missing that therapy part of it.

He’s like, “Hey, I’ll give you the medicine, it’s going to help you, but will you go home, work through your wounds, work through your unforgiveness, work through your bitterness, work through all the things that are creating you to run after achievement, success, and accolades? Those things matter.

Work through that, and then you can have complete healing in your life.

Kelly: Oh yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. I have absolutely seen that, having worked in a hospital. I used to work with transplant patients.

We passed the most individual medications per patient than any other floor in that hospital. Even more than the ICUs, believe it or not. There would be patients getting 30 pills at once. It’s kind of the nature of it, suppressing your immune system.

But each pill helps with different things, such as you may not feel depressed. But we must be intentional with what we’re putting into our bodies.

But the over-prescription, I feel, is because sometimes people want an answer. On the other side, health professionals want to give that answer.

I think that it’s well intended, too, to be able to say let me try this medication for you. Maybe that’ll help.

We are mind, body, and spirit, and the goal is to balance

But in reality, there is a balance, mind, body, and spirit. There’s nothing that’s going to take away the pain completely, and you’re not going to have to do any kind of work.

Nothing on the market does that unless you are going to be a zombie throughout life. That’s not in the cards. Even that is going to have repercussions.

I think it’s very much a combination, the balance. You described it so well with the teeter-totter.

I love that so much because it’s just true. I hope somebody listening today takes that to heart, hears that, and feels better. Because so many people I’ve talked to think their life has no purpose and are down on that depressive cycle.

It makes it really hard for them to want to do the work, but it’s also where that balance comes in. Maybe getting certain medications to give you a boost to help you feel worth it.

Many women who listen to this podcast struggle with feeling worthy enough for Jesus and his acceptance.

It is such a dark, dark place it can take you. I’ve known a lot of people that get in that place, too. There’s nothing and no one that knows your heart like God. He’s the one that really knows your heart, and knows exactly how to meet you in that place.

God puts people in your path to help you

He does put people in your path. I love that he put that woman in your path and told you to reach out to her, your husband, your physician, and all those people to help. Help along the journey because it’s not easy for sure.

That’s one of the reasons I love that you’re here today talking with me because it’s a journey.

The more people that use their pain for their purpose, we can really try to help one another, I think that’s the ultimate goal.

What would you say is one takeaway from your experience that you would want to share with the woman listening to this?

If a woman is struggling with the same thing you had gone through, what is that one takeaway you would give to help her try to see the light and let her know that hope is coming?

A reminder for when you feel unworthy and burdened

Christy: I think it’s so beautiful that you minister to women that feel unworthy. Because I think so much of this stems back to our worthiness.

I was chasing after all the wrong things because I wanted to seem worthy and whoever’s eyes. I think so much fear and anxiety stems from us chasing after something that only God can give us.

I just want to remind the precious woman that’s listening on the other side that you are worthy, loved, and have a purpose.

You are fearfully and wonderfully made. God wants to use you. You are anointed. You are cared for. There is something on the other side of the pain that you’re going through that someone else needs to be comforted by.

Comfort someone with the same comfort that God has given you. You matter. You have value. That’s what I want you to hear today.

Kelly: That is so beautiful. Thank you so much. It’s just so impactful. I usually ask my guests, Christy, is there a verse of scripture that really carried you through this?

Was there one that really impacted you you’d like to share?

Having God’s word, even just one verse, can anchor you in Him. It can remind you because sometimes, especially in fight or flight, our minds go crazy, and we can’t focus.

God’s word can anchor you

Was there a verse that helped you, or even a book of the Bible?

Christy: I’m going to give you a little story before I answer your question.

So I had a medical procedure happen very recently. I still have what I call aftershocks.

After a major earthquake, there are little aftershocks that take place. So I had my major earthquake, which was my nervous breakdown. Then every now and then, I’ll have an aftershock, which is a panic and anxiety attack. So just recently, I’m having a medical procedure, and I’m having a little panic attack.

I go up to my closet to pray and say, “Lord. I don’t want to be scared so much. Why am I always so scared? Please, Father, talk to me. Help me, comfort me, calm me down right now.”

And in his beautiful, still, small voice, I hear, “Daughter, I don’t dangle suffering over my children.”

Wow.

The scripture that rose up in my heart was just for God not to give you a spirit of fear. But of power, love, and sound mind.

So now I can recognize fear and say, no, God didn’t give that. When I’m freaking out about this medical procedure and what the results may be, and could it be cancer? What if it’s this, and what if it’s that?

I remember, daughter, God doesn’t dangle suffering over me. That spirit of fear that’s coming over me is not from the Lord. When I feel fear and don’t feel peace, I can directly understand that that fear is not from the Lord.

How to differentiate between healthy and unhealthy fears

I just say it to myself, for God did not give me a spirit of fear for God, did not give me a spirit of fear for God, did not give me a spirit of fear.

If I’m feeling fear, then I know it’s not from Jesus, and I can kick that fear to the curb and say, no, Father, you’ve given me love and a sound mind, and that’s what I’m going to walk in.

So friends, if you feel fearful right now or if there is something you believe and fear, then you have to understand that’s not Jesus. He did not give you that spirit of fear. It’s so important to differentiate those thoughts berating us and recognize that they’re not from the Lord.

When I can speak that over my fear, my body comes back down.

Concern moves you to action, but worry stops that action. Anxiety stops that action.

Many times God will show me something that I need to be concerned about, and then it moves me to action, but I don’t lose my peace during that.

There have been times when I’ve been warned about something, but I feel the peace of God over it and it doesn’t make me anxious, weird, or scared.

But sometimes I feel flat-out freaky and like I’m losing control with so much anxiety. Then, I know, this isn’t from God. This is not God.

Panic and anxiety immobilize you, but concern moves you to action

Anxiety and worry immobilize you, but concern moves you to action.

Those are the two ways you can know the difference, for God not to give you a spirit of fear but power, love, and a sound mind.

Kelly: Yes. Praise Jesus. I get so excited about that! That’s such a perfect verse, especially for what you’ve gone through.

I love that you differentiated between them because fear is meant to be good. It’s meant to keep us alert. As you said, it’s meant to move us forward, but fear in that capacity of anxiety and worry escalates and snowballs into this huge thing that is not meant for good.

That’s just meant to keep us from moving forward. I’ve never heard anybody explain it like that, and I love it. It’s such a simple way to differentiate.

Panic and anxiety keep you from moving forward

Thank you so much for sharing. So, we are almost out of time, but I want to talk about your new book that was just released on April 11th.

Nervous Breakthrough. I’m very excited about it. I think it’s going to bless so many people.

Everyone listening today, I hope you go to Christy’s website. Check out this book, please. If you struggle with anything like this, I feel it will be extremely helpful.

“The goal isn’t to cultivate a life free of fear. Such a life doesn’t exist. It’s to learn how to fear less.” -Christy Boulware, Nervous Breakthrough: Finding Freedom from Fear and Anxiety in a World that Feeds it

There was one quote that I wanted to say from the book, and then I’ll let you explain a little bit more, that I thought was just beautiful. The quote was, “The goal isn’t to cultivate a life free of fear. Such a life doesn’t exist. It’s to learn how to fear less.”

that in and of itself is just wonderful guidance and direction. It’s so true because we are going to experience fear. It’s inevitable.

But to know how to manage and work through it, fellowship, and surround ourselves with people who are on our side and want to be on our journey to help is really important.

So why don’t you tell us a little bit about the book?

Christy: Thank you for that beautiful quote. It’s always so neat to hear back about the things that have impacted other people, so that just blessed me tremendously. Thank you so much for that.

Nervous Breakthrough: Finding Freedom from Fear and Anxiety in a World that Feeds It

The book is called Nervous Breakthrough.

It’s a play on words of my nervous breakdown. Nervous Breakthrough: Finding Freedom from Fear and Anxiety in a World That Feeds It. It’s my journey, Kelly. It’s my journey of overcoming severe panic and anxiety disorder. My story is woven throughout the entire 13 chapters, but you’ll find practical tips and spiritual tips.

It’s not just one way or the other. I understand that we need both. We need practical and spiritual tips if we’re going to get through fear and anxiety.

It’s 13 chapters of walking you through my journey with it and how to overcome it. I hope that you will go pick up a copy. Here’s the other thing, people asked me who I wrote this book for.

Help for you and your loved one

I wrote it really for two people. I wrote it for women or men. We’ve had lots of men reading this book too, which is cool. But I wrote it for the one that isn’t sure if she’s having a breakdown, thinks she’s headed towards a breakdown, or is already in a breakdown.

So there are three women there, but then I also wrote it for the person that doesn’t get anxiety, doesn’t understand it, is not really sure, but has many people around them dealing with it.

So you can read this book to get a better understanding of someone you love who’s going through severe panic and anxiety disorder. I think by reading it, you’ll learn how to help that person out and how to love that person well.

You can get it on Amazon or at FearlessUnite.com, the nonprofit I run. I hope that you’ll go get a copy and give it away.

Once you read it, keep spreading it on so it’ll just keep having a ripple effect in our world.

Kelly: Absolutely. I love that you wrote it for people who have a loved one going through it. I usually describe it like this … when somebody has a broken arm, you can see what’s broken because you see the cast, right?

Brokenness takes on many forms

But when somebody has something broken in their mind, you can’t see it. Because you can’t see it, there’s that stigma around it. They can’t understand it. They don’t know what’s happening exactly.

Maybe even the person going through it doesn’t understand. But it’s very helpful for people who have somebody in their life that struggles with depression, anxiety, panic, or anything like that to really engage in. Resources like this do because it’s scary for them too.

They love that person. They don’t understand what’s happening.

I love that you wrote it with that person in mind as well. That’s so wonderful.

I will put links to your website and the book in the show notes. You also just launched a podcast as well.

Fearless Tips and Talks

Did you want to talk a little bit about the podcast before we go?

Christy: Absolutely. It’s called Fearless Tips and Talks.

You can find it wherever you listen to podcasting. I had this dream of short content and long content. So on Tuesdays, I release a tip that’s like three to five minutes long, and then the following week on a Thursday, I’m going to release a talk, and that’s where I’m going to interview people that have overcome fear and anxiety and are better off on the other side of it.

So you get a little bit of both. You get quick tips and long-form interview talks, too.

Kelly: Oh, that’s great. I love it. Fearless tips and talks. I love it. Thank you so much, Christy. Honestly, thank you for sharing your story. Thank you for sharing your journey.

It’s not easy to be vulnerable. I really appreciate you sharing. For anyone listening, please, if you can, pick up Christy’s book and share it among people. It’s absolutely wonderful.

It will help so many people, and we hope it helps you as well. I’m so grateful for you to be here.

Thank you so much, Christy.

Christy: Kelly, thank you for the work you’re doing in the world. I appreciate you.

Kelly: Oh, I appreciate you too. Thank you.

Bible Verses for Encouragement:

2 Timothy 1:7, NKJV “For God did not give us a spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

Matthew 11:28, “Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”

Resources for You:

Nervous Breakthrough: Finding Freedom from Fear and Anxiety in a World that Feeds it

Nervous Breakthrough by Christy Boulware is a riveting, faith-filled journey through mental health challenges. Christy shares her transformative experiences with severe panic and anxiety, candidly revealing her darkest moments. Amidst her turmoil, she found profound healing through her faith in Jesus. This book serves as a testament to the power of faith and offers an empowering message of hope and resilience to those grappling with similar struggles. A truly inspiring read for anyone seeking light in the face of darkness.

This book is for the person who struggles with:

Relentless anxiety
Unexpected panic and fear
Control issues
Missing out on life due to anxiety
Struggling to value a Godly view of success over a worldly view
Snowballing anxious thoughts
Fears around health or death
Isolation from family and friends because they don’t understand your struggle
Sleeplessness
What does God say about medication for mental health
Condemnation from Christians: “Your faith is not strong enough because you have fears”
How to recognize the warning signs of fear and anxiety
How to fully surrender to God when fear is all you feel
Trust Issues with God

Where to find Christy Boulware

Visit Christy at ChristyBoulware.com

Check out Christy’s podcast Fearless Tips & Talks

Purchase Christy’s book Nervous Breakthrough: Finding Freedom from Fear and Anxiety in a World That Feeds It on her website or most bookseller platforms, such as Amazon.

The sponsor of the I Witness Podcast is The Wilson Shop on Etsy.

The post Breaking Free: From Panic and Anxiety to Healing through Jesus -IW EP007 with Christy Boulware appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Kelly: Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host, Kelly Jo Wilson, and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. We have a great show today, and it’s actually part two of my interview with Alycia Johnson. Alycia is the CEO at Tirzah Ministries, and she’s also the co-founder of Tirzah Place, which is a home for teenage mothers.

I talk with Alycia about embracing God’s love and calling against all odds. In part one, Alycia initially told us a bit about her family and her backstory, and what guided her to become the CEO at Tirzah. She also shares about Jesus and how her faith was tested through the different churches that she was a part of growing up and the church that she was a part of later in her life.

This is part 2, where Alycia discusses how she has carried out her God-given calling and provides some resources and tips on how you can too.

Interview with Alycia JohnsonKelly: When did you first start the Tirzah Ministries while you were going to school? Is that how you got connected with people and started it?

Alycia: Well, that is a starting point while I was there. Actually, God completely orchestrates my life. People are like, you have to apply for jobs. I have applied for jobs before, but it really is like God just drops things in my lap.

All the professors are like, “You’re crazy. You’re graduating early and moving to Kentucky in the middle of the winter. You’re not even sure you’re accepted to this college and are just going to live there. So you’re taking all your stuff down with you for Christmas.”

I was like, yep, going through.

Kelly: I love it. I love it. That blind obedience is the best.

Obedience to God’s calling can take you to unexpected placesAlycia: It really is. Because you don’t know what’s on the other side of it. It can only be good because you have no clue at this point.

I moved there, got accepted, and found a place right away. The day before I moved in was Christmas, and I was looking for jobs. I was trying to find somewhere, and this place appeared.

I had these rules, but you can’t make rules with God, even so, I always try. They were: I would never work in a residential home and did not think I was strong enough to deal with teenagers. So while I was searching, God was like, apply for this job.

Making rules with God doesn’t work It just kept popping up on all these sites. It was Christmas day, and I was applying for jobs. They were looking for a third shift worker that’s 23 years old, and I was 21, not 23. They wanted you to work all night in a residential home for teen moms.

I thought it aligned with my passion, but this violates all the rules, and I’m too young. There’s no way this wasn’t going to happen. I applied for the day job that you could be 21 years old.

But when I sent it at 2:00 AM, the man who runs it with his wife messaged me. He said, “Hey, I got your application. Would you like to try out for the third shift position?”

Kelly: Especially because he knows you’re up at 2AM. He’s thinking you’re already up. You might as well do that shift. That is funny.

Alycia: I thought, okay, well, this is it. There was no stopping at that point. So I worked there for two and a half years. It was the greatest experience.

I found out later they opened the year before I was born, right down the road from where my family’s from.

Kelly: Wow. That is so neat.

You find God’s love in other peopleAlycia: It was really powerful when I realized that. I see God’s hand in their ministry. Even now, they’re really flourishing and growing. Their heart to minister to people is so genuine. It’s a husband and wife, and their story is amazing.

I’m not going to spend an hour on their story, but I could because there just an amazing couple.

Kelly: You just have to come back. That’s all that means.

Alycia: Yes, for sure. Because they’re incredible people, and they inspired me. I tell people not to discredit a man’s involvement in a women’s ministry in the right way.

Because he told me that I was strong enough to do that job. She could have told me, but in all honesty, she’s actually more the tough one because you gotta be that way with these girls, and he’s a gentle father figure. He said, “You’re young. You’re quiet. But you know what? I think we are going to feed you to the wolves and leave you, and you’ve got this. I will be there.”

When you do the work, you’ll find God’s love alongside youHe was there, even at 2:00 AM. If needed, I could call him. There was a tornado once in the middle of the night, and I was alone with all these girls. I picked up the phone and called him because I wanted someone to talk to that wasn’t a teenager. He was someone I could rely on.

He believed in me, and she also did, but there was a lot of power in him being the first person I interacted with. I left for Wisconsin but kept in touch with them. I still do.

That’s what inspired me to pursue the home for teen moms.

I moved back to where my family lives now in Milwaukee. The first job I had was with someone I connected with years ago. I wasn’t for sure accepted to the job, didn’t have a place to live, had a place picked out, and moved back to Wisconsin.

My first client in Wisconsin was 11 years old.

-Alycia JohnsonGod knew the details because my first client in Wisconsin was 11 years old.

I couldn’t even imagine because I was doing home visitation, and there was nowhere for her to stay. So we called foster care, probably about 20 different calls about this pregnant 11-year-old girl, and no one ever took us seriously. Even teachers called. She left her parents’ home because her mom said, if you can’t take care of your younger siblings, I don’t want you here.

She said I’m not the parent of my younger siblings. Her mom said she was out. She stayed with her grandma, and she wasn’t going to school. I had someone try to traffic her, and she called me because I was the person she was closest to. Even though she only saw me every week once a week.

Alycia found herself sharing God’s love through the pro-life movementI would pick her up and take her in my car, and we did our best to make sure everything was legal since she was 11 and I was driving her around. It was horrible for her. I thought, why are there no resources like this? Why is there no one doing anything about these teenage girls?

I saw it at home back in Kentucky, and I’m like, there’s a solution.

I might have been 23 years old, but why not try to start at home? We’re still fundraising because it was another girl and me, and running those homes is expensive.

It’s still in the fundraising stage, but it’s been so much prayer. I know there’s a need. So I know God will do it, and he’ll make it all happen at the right time.

God works through your unique experiences But I see God’s hand in bringing me through my family’s story. Through the home in Kentucky and back into Wisconsin.

I saw a huge need for teenage parents, whom I happen to be the daughter of, and have spent these years working with this home. It’s just mind-boggling how God does that. Because he knows your story.

You can’t make that up. That’s when you know it’s God. I can’t take credit for any of that because I don’t get to take credit for who I was born to or where I’m from, so there’s never a point in my life where I can be like, “Well, I did that.” Because it’s so clear I did not do it.

Kelly: Oh yeah, He’s woven such a passion and interwoven you in many different situations to grow your experience. The best way to get you to experience how to do this beautiful ministry is to thrust you into situations where you have to do it.

I’m so grateful for people like you running these ministries in these homes and outreach and providing these resources for people like this 11-year-old girl. Because that’s an easy situation for people to turn their heads to because you people think somebody else will do it.

God knows your heart when He nudges you. You find God’s love within you. But God knows your heart and knows Alycia will be the one to do it. I know it. I know she’s going to do it.

I’m so grateful to you for being that person for her. Even seeing her once a week, she trusted you enough to confide in and see you.

She obviously really wanted help because it takes a lot to even ask for help. But then to come consistently … It’s just so heartbreaking for somebody to be in a spot like that, especially a child. I love what you’re doing. I think it’s just amazing.

What was the place of your first job? I want to include it in the show notes. What is their ministry?

Alycia: It’s called All God’s Children.

Kelly: So we’re almost at time, but on this journey you’ve been through, you said you’ve seen a lot of God’s love and grace. You thought about what God said in Genesis about what was meant for evil, but God meant for good.

Was there a verse that stood out to you while you were trying to find your way, experiencing these situations? Especially with your grandmother and your parents. Was there a verse you always remembered that stuck out to you?

Once you find God’s love in your heart, you’ll want to share it with the worldAlycia: The verse for me was Esther 4:14, which I see as a double-edged sword. Depending on the season, it can be bad and good for my life.

It says, “For if you keep silent at this time, relief and deliverance will rise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father’s house will perish. And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this.”

That verse to me is like, how could I be silent about what God’s done. Yes, there were terrible things that happened in childhood. While I talk of the positives of what I enjoyed, growing up in a really traumatic community, there were also many negatives. There were challenges with all of us being a really young family.

God strategically placed me in this job, working in the streets, canvassing, knocking on doors and telling people about the pro-life movement when that law was overturnedAlycia JohnsonWalking through grief with my grandmother and the different challenges we’ve gone through together.

But how could I be silent when a whole generation needs to see that?

It became so clear to me with the Dobbs ruling.

God strategically placed me in this job, working in the streets, canvassing, knocking on doors, and telling people about the pro-life movement when that law was overturned.

Being in the streets with these people who have lobbied for years was so powerful for me. Knowing that God knew the timing for this home for teen moms because, before this season, people wouldn’t have been as aware of this issue.

Now, because of the ruling, people are abundantly aware there’s a need, and I truly believe it stops the need for abortion by empowering teenagers.

God uses you to share a powerful message of hope. This is your first pregnancy, but you can plan the next one. Most of the older women I worked with had their first pregnancy as a teenager. So I might not be opening a hundred centers or homes, but simply sharing my family’s story to say, “You can do it. You can be the one that changes that pattern. You can be the one that starts something new and grow together.”

There’s no condemnation over my grandmother’s story. We all love and value her, and she’s been such an amazing person in my life. My mom has a degree as a medical assistant now. My dad has a degree as a maintenance technician, and my sister has an early childhood degree. So we actually all have college degrees. We’re still a fairly young family.

You can change those patterns and not let one thing define you.

-Alycia JohnsonYou can change those patterns and not let one thing define you.

Don’t let having a child stop you from becoming who you’re supposed to be. It’s an addition, a blessing. It’s not something holding you back from forever.

Kelly: That’s so powerful, Alycia. Thank you so much for what you do and just saying that. I think women really need to hear that, especially young women who have made mistakes in the past, whether it be abortions or just other mistakes.

They need to hear that, especially from a Christian who is just sharing God’s love and grace like you are through this home and these ministries. Your whole family, really. I think that that’s fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.

So if a young person finds herself pregnant and is listening to this today. Or even a woman who maybe has been like your grandma and had gone through an abortion or is really struggling, do you have a takeaway that you would want to share to encourage her?

You are not condemned for your choices but accepted through God’s love and graceAlycia: I wish that someone had told my parents back in the day about pregnancy centers. What people don’t know is there are actually over a thousand in the nation, and they outnumber Planned Parenthood significantly.

I have worked with them for years, and they’re the most amazing places. I would say go to one, even if you’ve had an abortion. They actually have programs for that. They have healing retreats.

If you’re pregnant, you don’t need to have an unplanned pregnancy.

You can be pregnant, bring your husband, and get a free ultrasound. I sound a bit like a marketing advertisement, but I wish people understood the love in those buildings.

I have never been to a pregnancy center where they said we are here to make money or for a cause.

I’ve met hundreds of women working with pregnancy centers, and everyone says, “I just want to love and support another woman and her story.” I’ve watched them help women move furniture to get into new homes or sit in labor and delivery rooms.

You’ll find people who want to help you because of God’s love within themThey are there for you because they love Jesus. They don’t show condemnation, and the centers are free. You’re not charged anything. They get nothing out of it. It’s simply because they’re there to love you. So call one. There is one in your community.

It’s not very well advertised because they’re not great at marketing, but they’re too busy loving people.

Kelly: I’ll put some links in the show notes for resources. That’s wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing that, Alycia. That is wonderful. And I love hearing about your experience with that because there probably is a lot of fear because there’s fear of the unknown.

If you don’t know these places exist, you don’t even know to reach out and ask. But especially for kids, younger teenagers going through this, they don’t know. They don’t know what they don’t know sometimes, actually all of us really.

Don’t be afraid to reach out for help. You’ll notice God’s love and direction in unlikely places.I’ll put links to your beautiful Bible verse too.

So is there any final encouragement you would like to give or any final acknowledgments you want to share before we end today?

Alycia: I talked a lot about my journey from the church through the hard things I’ve been through. I prefer not to name the church I’m at right now because I enjoy the anonymity a little bit. But I want to acknowledge that I now have an amazing church that has supported me.

It’s growing, and I’m happy to keep getting put on stages there.

I have to say it’s a testimony of finding God’s love in a humble pastor who’s a bit awkward, actually, and I’m sorry to him in advance for that.

But those qualities in him made him the perfect person for me to have as a pastor after everything I’d been through. So that shaped a new journey for me to feel comfortable and safe in a church again. So there is a right church for you and a right community of God for you.

You have to find what is best for your story and journey now. Don’t let one bad experience keep you from the good ones.

-Alycia JohnsonYou have to find what is best for your story and journey now. I’m super grateful for the many pastors and women in ministry who empowered me. So don’t let one bad experience keep you from the good ones.

Kelly: Oh, that’s great. That is so encouraging. I feel like that happens, especially when you put your trust in a church and find out you have a different perspective later.

Sometimes it can really turn you from the church and from God altogether.

So I love your testimony of that. I appreciate you being here, Alycia. I did want to mention that Alycia has a book called Becoming: A 20-Day Devotional.

Why don’t you tell us about the book before we go today?

My story has been more about learning not to be a perfectionist, finding God’s love, and putting my identity solely in him-Alycia JohnsonAlycia: The book is about those things to guide young adult women because, while people have heard my family’s story, my story has been more about learning not to be a perfectionist, finding God’s love, and putting my identity solely in him.

It’s a 20-day devotional for young adult women to help them find God’s love and what he has called them uniquely to do. I share stories from my journey.

Kelly: That’s wonderful. Thank you so much, Alycia, for being here today.

I appreciate your testimony, and I just appreciate your wonderful, beautiful story and the mission and the ministry that you are doing. Thank you so very much. I am so grateful to you and your whole family for everything you’ve done.

Alycia: Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to be on here and super fun.

Kelly: I hope you enjoyed today’s show. Our show is brought to you today by the Wilson Shop on Etsy. Beautiful designs and encouraging words can change the world. If you’re looking for positive messaging on your favorite apparel, journals, and home decor, visit the wilson shop.com.

If this episode encouraged you, please consider sending it to one friend you think would benefit from what we’ve discussed. I’m so grateful for this time with you, and thank you for listening.

Listen to Part 1 of the interview with Alycia Johnson

Bible Verses for Encouragement:Genesis 50:20, NKJV, “But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is to this day, to save many people alive.”

2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.”

Esther 4:14, “For if you remained completely silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise for the Jews from another place, but you and your father’s house will perish. Yet who knows whether you have come to the kingdom for such a time as this?”

Resources for You:Crisis pregnancy centers, the national map

Pregnancy center information through Care.Net

Becoming: A 20-Day Devotional

Join author Alycia Johnson on a 20-day journey to discover who you are becoming! Using stories from growing up in the inner city and the country, working in ministry, and helping moms/babies across the states, Alycia shows you who she is becoming. This biography is separated into daily devotionals so you can look to your past, see your present, and dream of who God wants you to become in the future!

Where to find Alycia JohnsonVisit Alycia at Wonderfully Made or Tirzah Ministries

Connect with Alycia via Instagram

The sponsor of the I Witness Podcast is The Wilson Shop on Etsy.* How to listen when God is calling you against the odds – IW EP006 with Alycia Johnson * May 8, 2023 * Never Good Enough for Jesus with Kelly Jo Wilson – IW 001 * October 26, 2022 * How to Know God’s Peace with Laurie Christine – IW 003 Part 2 * January 9, 2023

The post Finding Yourself with God’s Love and Direction – IW EP006 with Alycia Johnson, Part 2 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Kelly: Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host. Kelly Jo Wilson and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. We have a great show today about embracing God’s love against all odds. Our guest today is Alycia Johnson.

Alycia is currently the CEO at Tirzah Ministries and co-founder of Tirzah Place, a home for teenage mothers. As the daughter of teenage parents, she spends her time advocating for strengthening families and giving young parents the tools to break generational cycles. Her passion is for women to know their value and carry out their God-given calling.

Welcome to the I Witness podcast today, Alycia. I’m so happy you’re here.

Alycia: Thank you for having me, Kelly. I’m excited to be here.

Part 1 of the interview with Alycia JohnsonKelly: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, Alycia and I chatted a bit beforehand, and I just wanted to say that it is such a funny way that we came to meet one another. God has a way of putting people in your path and bringing people together that’s amazing. I’m happy that you are here and happy to be talking with you today. I think you have a wonderful story. So why don’t we just get into a little bit of your background, upbringing, parents, and family? You can tell us about your journey to finding Jesus.

Alycia: To make it exciting, I will start with my parents’ story because I like to describe it as a Hallmark movie.

Kelly: Oh, that’s great. I love Hallmark.

Alycia: I feel like someday they could be a Hallmark movie. They were teenagers in the Appalachian Mountains and met at a very young age.

They were in high school from two different counties, and I do mean they were from the mountains. My dad had a motorcycle. He played on the football team. He worked at Walmart, helped with his family, and had his guitar. My mom was one of the cheerleaders, so I always think that’s super cute.

They don’t always like to say that’s super cute or even talk about how they got married, but I’ve always thought it was adorable. They actually eloped in a trailer. The man who married them was the pastor and barber, and he might have been the mayor and the school bus driver, too.

Odds were against Alycia’s parentsThis wasn’t that long ago, either. My dad’s friends were the witnesses. During that time, and even today, one of the only ways to leave the mountains is to join the military. My dad was a little bit older than my mom, and he was graduating.

So he joined the military and was actually in South Korea for quite a while when I was young, fighting in the war.

He was over there, and I remember my mom sharing this story, I think she was living with his mom at the time, and she’s 16 with me. She’s barely got her license and realizes her husband has left with the credit card.

She’s like, what do I do? He has the card, and he’s like really going away. So they had to figure that out.

So I have had quite an adventurous childhood. My parents are still together today. I am always blown away. I have heard a lot of statistics growing up and working in the pro-life movement, which I’ve done for several years, about the success rates for teenage parents for marriage.

It’s so funny because when I go to church now, the pastor always says that my parents are couple goals. They grew up together, have known each other through so many seasons, and walked alongside many journeys. They wanted something new for my sister, who’s seven years younger than me, and me.

How Alycia’s parents listened to God’s call for the familySo they really sought to figure out what that new thing was, which was leaving the mountains. We go back frequently, but they asked themselves, what’s best for us?

The first three years were a military journey. I was born on a military base in Missouri. My dad was in South Korea.

I lived in Louisiana, and then my parents ended up in Bible college in Washington State. My parents took us wherever to figure that out, and being a child wasn’t easy. We moved frequently, but I’ve never doubted that my parents loved me.

They were young and were figuring out life. So it’s been a cool journey that ties into my faith journey of my parents. From what I understand of the story, I got saved when I was a baby.

Building a relationship with GodIt’s really cool that we got to start a relationship with God together. I try to describe that to people, saying I grew up with my parents taking notes all night for Bible college when I was three. So at the age of ten, I was sitting with pastors until midnight.

I know it’s not the norm for most girls to spend their nights with head pastors and missionaries from around the world just sitting there and talking about scripture.

There were also challenges because of the church. We attended that church from when I was three years old until I was nineteen. That church introduced us to Jesus. But we were navigating the dynamics of figuring out life. My parents were teenagers, and this church really became like a parental figure in their life.

That sounds great, and there were great aspects to it, but there was also a lot of control.

So once they became pastors, there were many things like unnecessary rules controlling what we did. We lived in properties owned by pastors, and they weren’t the best properties to live in.

How listening to God’s call took Alycia to an unexpected destinationWe moved from Washington State to St. Louis, Missouri, when I was six. My family went from the Appalachian Mountains into the hood. What surprises many people about me is I grew up in a predominantly African American community. But it wasn’t odd for me at all.

That’s what I knew. That was my norm. We lived there from the time I was six until I was fifteen. My sister was born there. I loved it.

I have so many fond memories, and that really surprises people. But there’s such a sense of community. The neighbors have to protect each other. You really have to watch out.

You know who your neighbors are because you need to know what’s going on. I had so many friends that I loved, and that looked out for me in St. Louis. Let me tell you, that city is amazing because it has so many free things to do.

They just had so many fun things for a family who didn’t have a lot. We could go and explore all these programs, and my parents were really able to learn more about who they are. But unfortunately, in the Appalachian Mountains, there is still a lot of racism today.

Racism is real, but so is God’s graceThat was something I had to navigate growing up. Visiting the mountains every year and having family members ask me what’s it like being around black people. I would say, “Why are you asking me this?”

That wasn’t my norm. My parents were always so loving to everyone. To be honest, nobody ever looked at me as a child and said, you’re white. You’re not black.

I never experienced that when I was in St. Louis. That’s the beauty of the church we attended.

There were so many different races, and you were accepted for your own story, not because of your skin color.

Kelly: That’s fantastic.

Alycia: I feel like my family grew a lot there. It was very challenging. When I was fourteen, I asked Jesus into my heart, but it was more from a place of fear than from wanting a relationship. To be honest. It felt more like, “Well, hell sounds worse, so I don’t want to go there. But I don’t know that heaven sounds that great based on what I’ve been taught.”

Trying to listen to God’s call through fear and unrealistic expectationsLearning through my journey then was like, “I’m going to own this.” But it was all based out of fear and perfection. At that church, my parents were very loved, but I was also seen as one of the perfect children, for lack of a better way to put that, of doing what they were told and following the rules.

I was one of the youngest to be allowed to teach Sunday school alone. That sounds nice, but that is a lot of pressure on a fifteen-year-old girl, for example. If I could go back, I would tell myself, “Don’t take on the responsibility that’s not yours to take on.”

There were grownups in the congregation with their own stories who would look at me and say, “I can’t believe you’re sitting in the back row reading a book right now. Somebody could have got saved while you were reading this book.”

Kelly: That’s tough.

Alycia: The journey of a pastor’s child as well at times. That was hard to hear those things. I’d be like, “Well, am I doing the right thing?” I was constantly questioning. It wasn’t a sense of am I capable of doing something. I’ve always been told I could do many things. But it’s more about, can I not do something? Is there a time when I get to sit and let other people lead? I can go read the book or go to the park. I feel like my family walked through that as well.

The church craved control, but God is the One who providesKelly: It’s difficult because it sounds like your family had a lot of faith. They were dependent and active in the church and wanted to do wonderful things.

As you said, they always shared love. They were always loving people. They raised you to see people for who they are.

The initial goals of that church sound like they wanted that too.

But sometimes you get too much control because God takes us through trials and different seasons of our lives to experience how He steps in and is strong for us. Sometimes you don’t always have, especially at fifteen, you don’t always have all that to give out.

Your cup is constantly pouring out, but you have to give yourself some time for Jesus and God to refill your heart with that love. They are so capable through the Holy Spirit, but it’s hard for us in our flesh because you’re trying so hard to help people. Especially when you have all that pressure on you, that’s difficult.

But I love that your parents were very loving and raised you both that way. What a sweet story. That is a very Hallmark-style story.

I love it. God bless them so much.

So you were in that church until you were nineteen. Do you feel like that helped you get closer to God? Do you feel like it helped you search for Him more, or do you think it pulled you away from him?

Listening to God’s call based on a foundation in His wordAlycia: Well, I think that’s what surprises people within that whole journey is there’s this movement now that’s deconstructing your faith. I hear a lot about that, and I disagree with it.

There was a book that came out recently where she talked about disentangling your faith instead of deconstructing. Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean you need to throw out the whole thing.

Sometimes you need to go back and say, “What are the core moments that I can agree with?”

I learned so much from the Bible, which has shaped who I am in ministry. People joke with me because I try to avoid ministry and don’t always want to see that as my calling, but it’s been ingrained in me.

I believe God had a purpose in that to say, “Hey, I’m going to give you a solid biblical foundation. You’re going to hear the word and wrong things about it, but it will be ingrained in you. Then you can reshape that later.”

So my twenties were this unique journey of believing in those morals. I fell into the pro-life movement at nineteen as well, and it was not something I planned on doing or wanted to do.

How Alycia listened to God’s call through the pro-life movementI was not too fond of the pro-life movement, which would surprise people because I had teenage parents. Every time I saw signs that said, “Adopt your baby,” I was like, well, I love my parents. I don’t want to be adopted by you. I’m happy my parents raised me.

I wanted to speak to those people to tell them not to adopt their babies. They just need your help, and not put pressure on them and make them into leaders. They just need you to love them and show God’s love.

God knew that, so he pushed me into the pro-life movement, which led me on a journey with God. I had to listen to His call.

I knew I wanted to create a different pregnancy center than I had seen, one that was more of a business model, not just helping people. One that protected the staff the way I wish my parents had been protected when I was younger and that also served the people simultaneously.

A different side of JesusIt was a crazy goal, especially for a 20-year-old, but I thought, let’s see where this goes. I went to a Lutheran College, which taught me not to discredit one church because I disagreed with the doctrine. I’m not Lutheran, but I went to this Lutheran college. They showed so much grace, which I needed to see at that time, extravagant grace, for everyone and themselves.

That showed me a different side of Jesus that I had never seen.

Kelly: Awe, that’s beautiful. I’m so glad you had that because I can already hear that you have this passion and desire that God fostered.

What a wonderful thing. I love that you said not to discredit a church, essentially not judge the book by its cover immediately. Because anybody, say from Catholic or something else, with Lutheran might be like, “Oh no, I can’t go in there.”

But again, probably rooted in your parents, there’s that teaching about accepting and being open to following your heart and listening to your calling from God.

You went in there and experienced just wonderful grace. I feel like grace is such a beautiful thing to see in action. So I’m so happy you had that church to go to, especially if you’ve never experienced that before.

I was going to ask you about when you went to St. Louis, how sometimes in tough communities, or at least rough from the outside, they’re very close-knit people. Like you said, to protect themselves and one another. Which is an interesting thing that you don’t hear much about.

I feel like it’s maybe for protection, so I’m glad that you had that too.

What happened at the church once you went there? How did that transform your journey moving forward with your goals?

How God’s call was persistent, and Alycia listened even without attending churchAlycia: So that was, it was actually the college. I should clarify.

I still hadn’t stepped foot in a church again. So this was the value of Christian education, knowing their core values would align with mine.

While I was there, they just kept seeking me out. I was not going to seek anyone out, especially in leadership, after everything I had been through.

But they kept following me and put me in a pregnancy center. They said, “You are going to love this. You’re going to intern here and not Lutheran, so you can’t counsel.”

I probably shouldn’t disclose this, but she’s retired now, so this is why I can woman in charge who said, “You can’t counsel people because you’re not Lutheran. But what I’m gonna do is give you the keys of the building, and if there’s no one else to counsel people, well, then you have to counsel people.”

So I’m twenty years old in a pretty sketchy neighborhood next to a bus stop in this house where we did pregnancy counseling for people, including teenage parents.

I would go in there by myself. She was the executive director and taught me to run the whole thing top-down.

I fell in love. I thought it was super fun. This is so many of my giftings from childhood, my family’s story. I really wanted to create that new model for what I know pregnancy centers can be.

Listening to God’s call turns desire into an opportunitySo, I applied to grad school. All of my professors and advisors thought I was a bit nuts because I only applied to one grad school. I realized I had enough credits to graduate a semester early, and I thought, I’m pro-life, and I want to do social work.

By the way, for anyone who doesn’t know, social work is not a Christian field.

It’s very limited in the number of Christians involved and is known for being fairly liberal and pro-choice. So I thought I would have to attend a Christian school because I’d be laughed out of any other school.

Only four were in the country then, so I had to pick between Texas, Kentucky, New Jersey, and California.

The one in Kentucky happened to be an hour away from where my parents were from and where my grandparents lived. I always wanted to experience where my parents grew up because my parents may have had challenges, but that wasn’t my story. I have fond memories of the mountains and wanted to live there.

I had started working with pregnancy centers.

An abortion, a suicide attempt, and listening to God’s call for graceMy grandmother had an abortion before it was legal, so a long time ago, she had only disclosed it to one person. She tried to commit suicide when I started working at the pregnancy center.

My grandmother is someone that I’m very close to. She always shows grace no matter where we live. She’s always there. She’s actually in town right now, and I just picked her up two days ago, so we’re very close.

It’s been this constant journey with my family. I ended up going back there and attended grad school, where I experienced another side of God. My professor at that grad school invited me to Bible study at her house.

This community was predominantly white, and I had grown up in St. Louis in a predominantly black community that I was very close to and fond of. The professor that invited me to her house happened to be black, one of the only ones on staff. So that was a special connection I wouldn’t have had with other people. She had us over every week and told us I want you to read the Bible and tell me what you think of the Bible.

I thought, well, this is new. Nobody’s ever asked me what I thought scripture said before.

So that opened a whole new door. It worked with me going to my grandma’s on the weekends, helping her, and getting to watch her. She helped found the Frankfort Memorial for the Unborn, the state capital in Kentucky, with a memorial devoted to aborted and miscarried babies.

Redeeming a life of guilt and shameShe was one of the founding members. So yeah, it’s. It is beautiful to see her life, see God redeem it, and be a part of her walking this journey of faith, redeeming traumatic things for her.

That showed me how God shows grace even in the worst circumstances and how there’s no guilt or condemnation because I watched my grandma walk through a lot of that.

Feeling guilt for her decisions as a teenager when she had that abortion. My mom’s the only other child she has.

God doesn’t condemn you for that. You’re restored, and you’re made whole. He can use testimony to help start a memorial that helps many lives.

That verse in Genesis, I believe, says what you intended for evil, I intended for the good of many.

Kelly: That’s about Joseph. Joseph says that to his brothers, I love that you just said that verse. I feel like that is so true. That is such a powerful statement.

That verse in Genesis, I believe, says you what you intended for evil I intended for the good of many.

It always gets me. That’s why I remembered it. I don’t remember much from Genesis other than God creating, but the story of Joseph, for sure.

Wow. What a powerful thing. Your whole family has made an amazing impact, probably when you didn’t even feel like it was happening.

Everyone makes mistakes, but God calls us anywayWe all make mistakes. We all make choices that we regret. But a lot of people with abortion don’t talk about the aftermath. The aftermath for the mother, too, is horrendous guilt. Horrendous guilt. I mean to the point that she wanted to take her own life because of it.

So I love that she let herself believe that Jesus accepts her even through that so she could listen to God’s call to do amazing things. As the word says, you are a new creation. So, she became the founder of this beautiful memorial. What a wonderful testimony.

I’m so happy that she had you there with her, too. You’re going to school, learning, and then learning about her journey. You guys are just changing lives over there. It’s beautiful.

I hope you enjoyed today’s show. You’ll find links to what we discussed in the blog post version of this episode IWitnessPodcast.com, and our show is brought to you today by The Wilson Shop on Etsy.

Beautiful designs and encouraging words can change the world. If you’re looking for positive messaging on your favorite apparel, journals, and home decor. Visit TheWilsonShop. If this episode encouraged you, please consider sending it to one friend you think would benefit from what we’ve discussed.

I’m so grateful for this time with you, and thank you for listening.

Subscribe via your favorite podcast apps, such as Spotify or Apple Podcasts, so that you can be notified of part 2 of the interview with Alycia. Bible Verses for EncouragementGenesis 50:20, NKJV, “But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is to this day, to save many people alive.”

2 Corinthians 5:17, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold all things have become new.”

Resources for YouBecoming: A 20-Day Devotional

Where to find Alycia JohnsonVisit Alycia at Wonderfully Made or Tirzah Ministries

Connect with Alycia via Instagram

The sponsor of the I Witness Podcast is The Wilson Shop on Etsy.

The post How to listen when God is calling you against the odds? – IW EP006 with Alycia Johnson appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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This episode is part 2 of the interview with Lisa Appelo. Lisa unexpectedly lost her husband, and she takes us through how God spoke to her on her grief journey with her seven children. She shares resources and encouragement that helped her along the way and could help other women struggling with the pain of shattering loss.

Lisa Appelo inspires women to deepen faith in life’s storms and is an ECPA bestselling author. A former litigating attorney, Lisa is passionate about rich Bible teaching. Lisa founded a team of writers at HopeinGrief.com and currently serves on the executive team for Compel with Proverbs 31 Ministries. Her work has been featured at Life Today, Insight for Living, and many more. As a single mom of seven, Lisa’s days are filled with parenting ministry and long walks to justify lots of dark chocolate.

This is part 2 of the interview with Lisa AppeloLisa: It is for sure too hard for us. We were not made for death, divorce, disease, or devastation like this. We weren’t made for it. So when these things happen, it does overwhelm us. That old saying that God won’t give you more than you can handle. That’s just not true.

We can absolutely find ourselves in circumstances that are too hard for us.

I remember writing at the top of my journal every day for well over a year,

THIS IS TOO HARD. I CANNOT DO THIS.All caps, bold, underlined. That was the reality of my heart. I’m sure people looked at me and thought, you’re so strong.

But I knew what was going on inside. I knew the war raging in my thoughts and my emotions and could feel the enemy. I felt like the enemy was trying to get his toe into our family and just pull it apart.

Listen, this was not Lisa who had everything put together and was doing all the right things. This was Lisa who was desperate for the Lord.

Listen to God speaking and nudging youSometimes I think we can feel that nudge to meet with the Lord, open the word, meet with him in prayer, maybe read a devotion or read the Bible, and we think it’s guilt. You think God is guilting us like, “You haven’t met with me. You’re so bad.”

But it’s not. It’s wooing us like somebody who loves us, holding out their hands and saying, “I have everything you need. Come to me.”

It makes me weep. Because I remember … I remember those days when I just was desperate. And he says, “Come to me.”

So I think for the woman listening to this right now and saying, “I’ve stayed away from God, and I haven’t opened the word. I am mad,” to just listen to that nudge. Open it and give God a chance to meet you where you are.

It won’t look all tidy, and everything won’t be wrapped up with the bow that first day. God will meet you where you are. He will give you hope and encourage you. He will remind you how much he loves you and remind you of his promises and faithfulness, and that’s how we do life.

We’re not promised that life will be easy. But we’re promised that God will be faithful.

You are not alone, life is messy for all of usKelly: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that, Lisa. I think that is so encouraging that it won’t be easy. We know that we’re not promised that. It’s going to be hard, and it’s going to be messy.

A lot of women take comfort in knowing that other women are going through it too, and it’s messy and hard for them too. But there is a way to come through it.

Like you said, listening to that nudge, I’ve had many women reach out to me who don’t think they hear God’s voice. They’re not sure if it’s him.

They question it a lot, but I think a lot of times it is not necessarily questioning him, but more questioning themselves. I love that you said, just listen to that nudge because it is there. It’s like a soft, still voice. Do you feel like it was like that with you? Like he just kept pulling you?

How does God speak to us?Lisa: God speaks to us in his word, so we can be sure that we can open up the word and see him speaking to us. I mean, not audibly, like how Moses heard or Paul heard, but he speaks to us through scripture.

Somehow a hundred women could read the same passage. God applies it to each of us personally not differently, not in opposition to each other. Still, God will apply it personally to us because scripture’s alive. I would say open up scripture. You don’t even need a devotional. Devotionals are awesome, but start the book of John. Just see who Jesus is and what he has to say to you.

Kelly: What a wonderful book to start in. I read John a lot too. I also really like Matthew. For some reason, I’m so drawn to Matthew when reading about Jesus and I usually read the New King James version. But I like going through different versions to see how he’s speaking to you.

But yes, what a wonderful encouragement. So this happened years ago, but it never fully goes away. Right? You always have this part, and time just kind of moves you past it. You just learn to live with it, I feel like right?

Is that how it is with you? Is that how it feels? The wound is not quite as open, but it’s still there, and you learn to manage it.

But was there anybody that inspired you during that time or your journey that you could look up to or helped guide you? Did anybody walk alongside you?

Does the grief ever get better?Lisa: Well, a couple things come to mind. One is, yes, grief does lessen and soften if we do the hard work of grief. Time is not a natural healer it’s neutral. It’s what we do with that time. So there are definitely ways that we process grief and loss over and over and over.

It’s never just a one-and-done thing, but it does lessen and soften. Most days I would say I’m very much used to this pace of life and love life.

But we miss Dan at every milestone and at every dinner that we have together. He will always be missed.

I didn’t know any other young widow I could walk with, but I had friends that loved on me. That’s such a lesson to us because sometimes we think, well, I don’t understand what she’s walking through. I’ve never lost a child, or I’ve never been through a divorce, or I’ve never had cancer. So we don’t think that we are capable of really ministering to that person.

God speaks through the love of people, too But really, it’s just loving that person in it. It’s just loving them and showing up. That’s the big thing. We don’t have to have magic words.

We can’t fix the problem, so we can just let ourselves off the hook of having to fix the problem. But just showing up, being present, reminding, sending a text, having coffee, and listening to their heart. There are so many ways we can love somebody in it, which was huge for me.

There’s somebody who is no longer living but has always been a heroine for me is Elizabeth Elliot. Her writing is just so good. She recently came out with a book after her death, but they put it together, called Suffering is Never for Nothing. She knew suffering more than just her two husbands who passed away. She’s two times a widow, but she had other losses in her life. So, her writing and her steady trust has been a huge encouragement.

We have encouragement in God speaking through other peopleKelly: Wow. That is so amazing that you just said Elizabeth Elliot right now. Because I can’t even tell you. I was just looking up her story. So It’s just funny, to me, those little coincidences.

I love so much that you had friends that loved on you, because that is so important. It’s so encouraging to just sit with somebody, and most times it probably doesn’t even matter what they say. Right? Just to be there to listen, to hug you.

It’s so true. You’re so right. “I don’t have cancer. I don’t know how I’m going to help people. I didn’t, I never lost a child.” Many people say that and I think it it’s very well intended. I think that it’s, “I don’t walk that path. I don’t know it, how can I tell them anything?”

But really, nobody even wants you to tell them anything. They just want your love, your hug, and you to listen to them. So, I am so happy that you had friends like that because, man, it really does make a difference. That’s why fellowship within one another is so important too.

God spoke through testimonyEspecially as women, I feel like we get each other. There’s so much pressure in the world, these unrealistic expectations set for us and we don’t even know how that happens. We’re not in competition with each other.

We are here to encourage each other and I love so much that you said that and had that support. Because what a difficult walk.

Elizabeth Elliot, just to share with the listeners, her husband was killed overseas. They were missionaries and they went over to help to minister to people about Jesus. I think they were called the Auca people.

Lisa: I think they’re called a Waudoni is their name now that they use.

Kelly: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, absolutely. Her husband and four other missionaries were speared by men who did not want them around. They did not accept the word. I was actually just reading something that her husband could have drawn a pistol to defend himself. But he made a promise to them that he wouldn’t. He would not harm any of them, especially if they hadn’t accepted Jesus.

Elizabeth Elliot though, she also lost her second husband after he had passed. But I think it’s so amazing, and it shows such grace that she returned, I wanna say, a year later to minister to those same people who murdered her husband. Only God can give that kind of fierce forgiveness.

Lisa: She would go and live with the very people who had killed her husband and get to know them, understand what they were thinking, and why they killed her husband. Many would come to Christ through her, her witness, and her little girl.

We witness through our character how God transforms our heartKelly: Absolutely. And it just speaks volumes to how God can work through us. How we can be the light. Just like he’s working through you. He really is. Even just being here today and sharing a discussion and your story because it isn’t easy to be vulnerable.

Especially about something just so tragic, Lisa. I’m just so grateful to you for being here. I wanted to ask you, was there any verse that really carried you or even carries you now through grief that really speaks to you? I know you said the verse earlier, come to me all weary and heavy laden, and I’ll give you rest.

That’s a fantastic verse. Did that verse help you, or was there another verse that helped you through that?

God’s word is a living encouragementLisa: Yeah, there were a lot of verses that meant a lot to me. But I think one early in my grief that I probably never would’ve come across unless I had been reading through the Bible every day chapter by chapter. I found a verse in Deuteronomy 33:27, and it says, “The eternal God is your refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.”

It was such a picture of God that while my world was shaking and imploding, God was steady and eternal. That he held us, and those eternal arms, those everlasting arms were carrying us and holding us when I felt like everything else had fallen apart.

I just clung to that.

I started signing my emails with it and writing it in thank-you notes. I just clung to that verse and that picture of God being our eternal refuge.

When we feel overwhelmed, we have God’s word to comfort usKelly: Oh, that is just beautiful. I will also put that in the show notes for the listeners to help them. Because I feel like sometimes when you’re feeling overwhelmed, you’re grasping at straws, and it’s hard to remember even what you did the day before. Especially whenever you have such a hurting heart.

But that is just beautiful. Thank you so much for that.

So I know you are a writer and an executive team member for the Compel team for Proverb 31 Ministries, but you also published a book. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your book and what your book is about?

Because you really discuss a lot of this in the book, right?

Lisa’s book helps those suffering with shattering loss in many waysLisa: I do, yes. So I published a book late last year, actually, it was in April of last year. It came out and is called Life Can Be Good Again: Putting Your World Back Together After It All Falls Apart.

The book is for that woman who finds herself navigating a life she didn’t expect, a life that she doesn’t want.

It can happen in a lot of ways. It can happen through a diagnosis, marriage, or even a business that implodes, and life looks different now. Even a relationship with somebody who’s living but has been cut off causes a lot of pain. Maybe the death of somebody you love.

There are many ways we can find ourselves in that place of shattering loss.

I remember wanting to know one person who was just a few steps ahead of me who could both assure me I would make it through and was flesh and bones. I knew God would be faithful. He’d said he would be faithful in the word, but I wanted to see it on flesh and bones lived out.

Life can be good again, Lisa helps you to walk the journeyAlso somebody who could just take my hand and say, “this is the way. Let’s do this.”

So this book does not gloss over the heart. It’s called Life Can Be Good Again, because I remember wanting and worrying that I would never smile again, that I would just make the best of life that it was now, but I would never experience real joy. That kind of organic joy that bubbles up again.

The promise is that life can be good again, but we have to walk through the hard questions and hard emotions. So how do we do that?

Practices that we can do to find our footing and begin taking little steps will help us move forward in this life we didn’t expect.

Kelly: Oh, that’s so wonderful. See, I just, oh my goodness. I just love it so much! Your book is very encouraging. I definitely encourage our listeners to get it, for sure. You said you wanted somebody to help take your hand and see how. So now you are living this wonderful purpose of helping women by taking their hand, being somebody in the flesh.

I love that you’re giving back in that way. It just warms my heart so much. Thank you for doing what you do.

God will never give you second best Suppose you had one takeaway from your experiences of knowing Jesus and your journey through grief with God through ups and downs. What would your takeaway be to a woman dealing with a similar struggle and pain?

Lisa: Something was impressed on me, probably not early in grief, but probably my second year of grief because I was still really struggling, still in a place of despair.

I mean that second year the fog of grief had lifted, and this hard reality had just settled in. I remember one day in my minivan saying, I don’t even know if I said it out loud, but saying something like, “I don’t like my life. This is not what I ordered.”

On the heels of that came this thought that while this was not what I had expected, it did not surprise God. He allowed it. It was not a Plan B, that it was a chapter two. Because God had allowed it, it had as much abundance, goodness, and joy as the chapter before.

I didn’t immediately feel better or immediately say, “oh, well, I’m all better now. Let me just move on.”

“I still had a lot of missing loneliness and grief to work through.” But it shifted my perspective and helped me lean on the truth that God does not give us plan B. For so long I thought I was living out the leftovers of the life I wanted, that this was second best and first best was my first plan that was gone.

But God does not give us second best. He does not give us the leftovers. What he allows is chapter two. It’s never a plan B, which can shift our paradigm if we lean on that and say, “well then, by definition, God, if you’ve allowed it, there is goodness here. If you’ve allowed, there is joy and abundant life here, and I’m going to fight for it.”

Lean into God and hear Him speak to your heartKelly: That’s just so wonderful. Lisa, thank you so much. I love that you say lean into God because it’s hard. It’s hard, but we start to lean on him. I mean, it’s just a wonderful picture of really leaning on his strength.

He tells us, in our weakness, he is strong. So when we feel most weak, lean into him. I just love how real and raw you are about it. How you do not sugarcoat anything, and you say in my second year of grief. I bet even that statement is helping someone listening because like you said, it’s not a timestamp.

You can’t timestamp it. But yes, what a fantastic takeaway. What a wonderful way to embrace what happened and find that journey back to having hope and joy again. Thank you so much, Lisa.

Do you have any closing encouragements?

Lisa: No, but for the one who’s listening to this, just don’t believe the lie of your circumstances. I think our emotions and our circumstances will lie to us. While our emotions can tell us that we’re dealing with difficulty, they cannot predict our future. Only God can do that, and trust him with that.

Kelly: Yes, absolutely. Just wonderful. Thank you so, so much. I will put Lisa’s book in the show notes, a link to your website where we can find you, and absolutely will share the Bible verses you graciously shared with us today too, Lisa.

Lisa: Thank you for having me, great conversation. I appreciate you making space for this. This is a hard conversation for many, but I really appreciate it.

Kelly: Oh my goodness. Thank you so much for sharing your heart with us today, and I feel so honored to have you here. Thank you.

Lisa: Thank you

Bible Verses for EncouragementMatthew 11:28, NKJV, “Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.”

Deuteronomy 33:27, NKJV, “The eternal God is your refuge, And underneath are the everlasting arms; He will thrust out the enemy from before you, And will say, ‘Destroy!”

Resources for YouLisa’s book Life Can Be Good Again helps women to put their lives back together after it falls apart.

Lisa also has a free devotional, 7 Days of Hope for Your Shattered Heart, to help women walking through devastation focus on hope.

Where to find Lisa Appelo:Visit Lisa on her website www.LisaAppelo.com

Connect with Lisa on the following social media sites:

Instagram

Facebook

Sponsor for the I Witness Podcast The Wilson ShopThe post Does God speak to us when grieving someone we love? – IW EP005 with Lisa Appelo, Part 2 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host, Kelly Jo Wilson, and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. We have a great show today about life after shattering loss.

My Interview with Lisa AppeloKelly: Our guest is my friend and fellow author, Lisa Appelo. Lisa inspires women to deepen faith in life’s storms and is an ECPA bestselling author. A former litigating attorney, Lisa is passionate about rich Bible teaching. Lisa founded a team of writers at HopeinGrief.com and currently serves on the executive team for Compel with Proverbs 31 Ministries. Her work has been featured at Life Today, Insight for Living, and many more. As a single mom of seven, Lisa’s days are filled with parenting ministry and long walks to justify lots of dark chocolate. Welcome to the I Witness podcast, Lisa. I’m so happy to have you here.

Lisa: Thank you so much, Kelly Jo. I’m happy to be with you.

Kelly: Yes, yes. Thank you. So, today I just wanted to talk about the wonderful but challenging journey you’ve traveled. Your faith and walk with God over these past few years. So I just wanted to share or wanted our listeners to hear a little bit more about your background and family and then go from there about your faith journey.

You’re really passionate about helping women through shattering loss and grief. I think it’s just so inspiring, and you have such a wonderful story to tell. So why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about your family, background, and even how you came to know Jesus. Like how old you were and just a little bit of what that looks like.

Lisa met God early in her lifeLisa: Sure, when you were asking that question, I was thinking about my story, and I thought, even now, it’s hard to believe this is the story that God has written. This is not what I would’ve expected. And I think so many of us can identify that we are living out a life that we didn’t expect things that have happened or that we wanted to happen that never happened.

I’ll start with when I came to Christ. I was a young girl. I was raised in the church, and I was in Sunday school from the youngest I can remember. In church, you know, things weren’t perfect. Even in my home, there wasn’t much teaching about Jesus.

Most of that was coming to church on Sundays, but I knew I needed a savior at eight. So I count that at eight years old, but we weren’t a family that wrote the date in the Bible or anything like that. So that’s really as best I can remember that I was eight, going forward and pastor, and getting baptized and all that.

But then, in my teen years, I did some teen things as a 15-year-old but rededicated my life. So, from that time on, owned my faith as an adult. You understand what you can as an eight-year-old. Then we grow older and almost have to make those decisions over again as an adult wrestling through some of these issues that seem so simple at eight years old, right?

Kelly: Oh, absolutely. Yes.

God’s unexpected journey for LisaLisa: But, fast forward, I married my college, well, I married my high school sweetheart, so we actually were in Sunday school together. We met in seventh grade, but he was just another boy across the room, and then by high school, we were in a big group of friends. He was a surfer.

We’d go to the beach together, and he was my first date. He was my only date. We went to college together very intentionally because we knew we had a future together. We married sometime in college and ended up with seven children, which is another unexpected thing.

This was not in the plan, but God will tender our hearts and ask us to step out in faith in ways we never thought we could.

So, I have seven children. Five are launched and have their own families, and I am still actively parenting two. My two youngest are at home. My story … I think when we talk about shattering loss and how God really gave me a heart for the woman who’s walking that started 11 years ago.

Shattering loss changed everythingI went to bed happily married and woke up a widow and single mom to my seven children. There were no signs of symptoms, but I woke up in the early morning to my husband’s funny breathing on the pillow next to me and called 911 and started CPR.

The paramedics were there within minutes, and I thought, “okay, he’s in good hands. He’s going to be mad when he wakes up and finds out he has to miss work today.”

But he never recovered.

I went into the ER, and they called me into that room you never wanna go into, and the ER doctor said, “we’ve worked on him for over two hours and have never been able to revive him.”

I went home to tell my kids that was it, that their dad was in heaven. After that, life in every sense fell apart, just shattered into a thousand pieces. It would never be the same again.

Kelly: Wow. That definitely would cause your life to absolutely shatter. Being so young and loving him so much pretty much immediately. You went on a date, and you both were so young and full of life and dedicated your lives to one another. Then you have this family, and like you said, your life took a completely unexpected turn, which is even more of a blessing once you’re walking that path.

But then you wake up in the middle of the night, and oh my goodness, as you put it, you went to bed married and woke up a widow. Happily married and woke up a widow.

Brokenness led her backBut, first, I’m just so sorry you had to deal with that, Lisa. I just can’t imagine, and I’m sure you’ve had many people say that to you.

I will say, though, the encouragement, inspiration, and help just even by being here today as we talk through your story. And knowing you and your passion for writing and reaching women, I’m sure that you’ve provided a lot of comfort to a lot of people, and have really blessed them.

I’m so gracious that you’re here today to talk about this. Going back quickly, whenever you’re young, I just wanna point out one thing, which I think is neat. So you’re eight years old and like, yes, I love Jesus. Your family is going to church and you know about him, but it’s not like writing it in a calendar.

I completely identify with that. I feel like my family had always talked about Jesus, that it was kind of like well-known that you’re Christian, right? That you just know him, say prayers and that’s it. So you can’t really pinpoint the day. But like you said, when you were a teenager, after you come to know him a little bit as you were young, but it never left you just like he tells us it never departs from you.

But once you make some mistakes, dealing with all the hormones and teenage everything, you know? I completely identify with you there. Once you realize, once you see a little bit of the brokenness that you are and then go back, it has a little bit of a different meaning right?

Lisa made a choiceLisa: Yeah, for sure.

I was doing things I shouldn’t have been doing, and I really felt the before and after, and I didn’t get saved at 15. I was saved at eight but wasn’t living fully for the Lord. I was wandering from him, and was really at a point where I could have kept wandering.

Maybe not come back, or I could say, “no, this is the truth.” So he is my savior, and I desperately need him. It’s interesting because I was actually at a youth camp. It was one of those things where everybody was emotional, and I never went forward. They were like, “come forward or pray.”

I never went forward. I stayed right in my seat.

But I remember praying, “Lord, do not let this be a mountaintop experience.” Just praying that over and over. Then I went home.

Dan and I were not dating. We were really good friends. Then, a few weeks after returning school had started in the fall, he said, “You’re so different. You’re so different.” So isn’t that interesting? Somebody who knew me so well could see the difference.

God puts people together for a purposeKelly: Wow. That is interesting. And you weren’t dating him then, he already saw the change in you, though, being your friend. Wow. And especially him too, you know, seeing that change in you maybe sparked a little something extra in him too. You never know. I feel like God really does put people together. It just seems like he really put you together for a wonderful purpose.

It’s just amazing how he can work in our lives. So, I definitely did not want to pass over what happened with Dan in that story. I just wanted to talk a bit about you returning to God when you were a teenager.

That’s so funny that you say that Dan really recognized it. I think that’s great. But you started your life together and had seven children, so that’s completely devastating. So share what you feel comfortable sharing.

Grief was different for each family memberI don’t wanna take you too much through every step of that, but how was the family unit?

How did you guys pray together?

Did your kids embrace Jesus, or was it kind of like they were questioning things?

Or do you feel like you were a very tight unit?

Lisa: When Dan died, my children were four years old, and then my oldest had just finished his freshman year of college. So they were at all different points and after he died, you know, it’s hard enough walking through your own grief, but then trying to navigate and shepherd your children through theirs, it’s really just overwhelming.

People will ask me, “how do I do this?”

I think the only answer I can give you because every family is different and looks different, is to just authentically grieve together.

Whatever that looks like, don’t feel like you have to show up all put together for your children. Don’t feel like that or make them feel like they have to, either.

I remember sitting down with my kids and saying, grief is going to look different for each of us, and we’ll have to have a lot of grace with each other this year. That’s how naive I was. Thinking it would just be a year until we got back on our feet. And it did look different for each of us.

Every day in the car, my four-year-old would randomly start crying and saying, “I miss daddy. I miss daddy.” Sometimes at very ironic times.

Grief struck in both dark and happy momentsI remember a few months after Dan died, my daughter went to a Florida event, it used to be called Junior Miss, but now it’s distinguished young women. It’s a scholarship program (slightly a pageant). She won for Florida. We had never done pageants, but this had streamers coming down and the flowers being handed to her. All the kids are going up on stage, and I’m holding my daughter on my hip.

With all this music and confetti coming down, she is whispering in my ear, saying, “I miss Daddy. I miss Daddy.”

That is such a picture of grief. These events are happening, these milestone events, and then in the midst of that is this gaping, painful loss.

It’s never one or the other. It is both coexisting.

How did my family react to that? I think I just tried to walk them through as best I could. We did a lot of reading aloud together. We were a homeschooling family and had the opportunity and the time to have that Bible time together every morning.

I remember we started reading books on heaven. Everything from picture books, from my little ones to bigger books with my older ones.

I kept an open conversation. I tried to keep a safe place for them to just be able to share and talk however it looked. It looked different for my daughter than for my teen sons and my six-year-old and four-year-old.

Grief still looks differentKelly: Oh my goodness. I am sure it looks so different and probably still looks different for them in every stage you go through together.

I love that you pointed out that you have to authentically grieve together. Because there is no way that you’re going to have that strength for all of them, right?

You want to make sure that you can because you want to shelter them from all these big feelings and all this pain. But, like you said, the perfect picture of grief … wonderful thing happening, missing her father and whispering it. But I think that’s amazing.

I think that you guided them in such a wonderful way and I bet that a lot of women listening to this are probably thinking the same thing. “I don’t know how I’m going to do this. I’m just going to do it with them, and that’s it.”

That’s just a wonderful guide for somebody who’s kind of lost, because it would be impossible to really carry them through each thing while you’re feeling it yourself.

How did you handle that? How did you handle those really tough moments and maybe even angry at God or frustrated with him?

Totally overwhelmed, Lisa met God every dayLisa: I was overwhelmed in every sense of the word, and I think when life falls apart, you know, we get to a place of overwhelm where we’re having decisions and massive change, hard emotions, and questions. I would get up every morning and get them settled and started for the day.

Then I would get into my minivan.

I say some people have a prayer closet, but I have a minivan. I would go around the corner to this little park and just park. In that quiet minivan where nobody could slip a note under the door or come into my room, I would just cry out to God. Sometimes I cried out audibly. Sometimes, I would journal. Every day I journaled.

But I would have that time to unburden my heart with everything I had been carrying. All the worries I had, all the fears, the missing, and the loneliness, just all of it. I never went through anger.

Desperate for GodI did go through questioning God, saying, “Why would you take such a good dad?”

Some of the ironies of the situation were that his mom, who was not in very good health at all, the last thing he had been doing was paperwork for her. Not that I wanted anything to happen to her, but just the irony of life. He died suddenly so young, and she was there with us for several more years, which was a grace.

I would get alone in my car. I would cry out to God and pour that out to him then open the Bible.

I happened to be reading through the Bible for a year, but I had not started that year doing that, Dan had actually been doing it.

I was just desperate for the Lord. I was desperate for the word more than I needed my own food.

I wouldn’t look for a passage that would meet or speak to me, but I would just open to that day’s reading. It never ceased to amaze me how God would meet me wherever I was reading, whether it was Leviticus, Psalms, or one of the gospels.

God reminded her of who he is God would meet me on the words of that page. He would remind me who he is and how he cares for us, and it would give me enough hope to go back into the house and parent for that day. It was not enough for the week. I would have to go back the next day and do it over. It became like that daily manna.

I would go out and pick up my daily manna, which was enough for that day.

When we say God is enough, that’s what it looks like. It’s not like God is enough, and we never have to go through anything hard. It’s that God is enough to get through this moment, to get through this difficulty, get through this day, and it won’t always feel like this.

I kept telling myself that it won’t always feel like this, but I did have to have that hope to get through each day. Until we got our fitting and until my smile came back.

Daily walk through the painKelly: Wow. That is so perfect to say how he’s given it to you for that day in the daily walk with him. Because it’s so unknown. When you say you were overwhelmed in every sense, I think that is an overwhelming piece of it. You think, when is this going to go away? When is it going to lighten up? When is it ever going to get better?

But I think you made a good point that you surrendered every day. You made that time, no matter how busy you were, no matter how intense or overwhelmed you felt. You made that time in the morning or whenever it was and took everything to him. Which I think is a really great thing.

Many women who listen to this podcast struggle with making time and even feeling good enough for God to meet them where they are. A lot of them feel broken and that they don’t deserve it. But also, especially if they’re angry at God for something that has happened.

How can you surrender your pain to God?What would you say helped you to be able to lay it at his feet whenever you went there? Did it come very easy to you because you had been in the scriptures and walking with God through it? Or was there something or anything extra that you did to maybe help the woman listening now who says, “It’s so hard for me to just surrender?”

Lisa: It is for sure too hard for us. We were not made for death, divorce, disease, or devastation like this. We weren’t made for it. So when these things happen, it does overwhelm us. That old saying that God won’t give you more than you can handle. That’s just not true.

We can absolutely find ourselves in circumstances that are too hard for us.

I remember writing at the top of my journal every day for well over a year,

THIS IS TOO HARD. I CANNOT DO THIS.All caps, bold, underlined. That was the reality of my heart. I’m sure people looked at me and thought, you’re so strong.

But I knew what was going on inside. I knew the war raging in my thoughts and my emotions.

I could feel the enemy and felt like the enemy was trying to get his toe into our family and just pull it apart.

This was not Lisa, who had everything together and was doing everything right. This was Lisa, who was desperate for the Lord.

Listen to God’s nudgeSometimes I think we can feel that nudge to meet with the Lord, open the word, meet with him in prayer, maybe read a devotion or read the Bible, and we think it’s guilt. You think God is guilting us like, “You haven’t met with me. You’re so bad.”

But it’s not, it’s wooing us like somebody who loves us, somebody who is holding out their hands and says, “I have everything you need. Come to me.”

It makes me weep. Because I remember … I remember those days when I just was desperate. And he says, “Come to me.”

It won’t look all tidy, and everything won’t be wrapped up with the bow that first day. God will meet you where you are.

He will give you hope. He will encourage you and remind you how much he loves you. He will remind you of his promises and his faithfulness, and that’s how we do life.

We’re not promised that life will be easy. But, we’re promised that God will be faithful[KW1] .

Resources for Encouragement:Lisa’s book Life Can Be Good Again helps women to put their world back together after it falls apart.

Lisa also has a free devotional, 7 Days of Hope for Your Shattered Heart, to help women walking through devastation focus on hope.

Where to find Lisa Appelo:Visit Lisa on her website www.LisaAppelo.com

Connect with Lisa on the following social media sites:

Instagram

Facebook

The post How to see who God is through shattering grief – IW EP 005 with Lisa Appelo, Part 1 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In part 2 of this episode of the I Witness podcast, Jenny Leavitt shares how she coped with the grief after losing her youngest son, Jacob, to a drunk driver. The Leavitt family has been through extreme hardship, and Jenny shares how God’s peace has led them through healing deep wounds. In addition, she discusses how the event impacted her marriage and her older son, Caleb, who almost died in the accident alongside his brother.

Part 2 Interview with Jenny Leavitt Jenny: Our God is so good.

I think there are multiple reasons He prepares us. It can be to heal past wounds, past insecurities, and areas where we don’t feel we deserve his love or care. But it can also be for something in the future he knows that’s coming that we don’t know.

Kelly: That’s a wonderful way to look at it and such a good point. I feel like you and your family have really embodied that so much … how he has truly prepared you. I am grateful to him for the peace that he gave to you.

Because as a mother outside looking in, and I’m sure you’ve heard this throughout telling your story, I don’t know if I could do that. I’m sure you’ve heard that, too, “I don’t know if I could handle that.”

But that’s kind of the point. We can’t handle it without Him, and I’m so grateful you had that peace.

Like you said, when he told you they were his, and then again, at that moment because that is tough.

I appreciate you so much for coming on and talking about that because it’s very hard. I love that your husband was trying to protect you even in the midst of it. He’s by your side through cancer, through all of this. That is so great because a tragedy can shake that marriage up big time in families, especially marriages.

But you guys are rooted in Jesus, rooted in faith.

How coping with grief tests a marriage Do you feel like going through all this has strengthened you both and fueled togetherness in your marriage?

Jenny: Just three months before we lost Jacob, there was a little girl in our church who was seven or eight that died from brain cancer. My husband and I were the children’s leaders, so we walked that road with the parents.

So, just three months before, we had told the parents the stats were not on your side. In marriages that lose a child, the odds are stacked against you that the marriage will not survive.

Then we lost Jacob three months later. We had been in ministry long enough to know what we told them was right. Looking back now, I think we had a solid foundation in our faith, and we had been together a long time, but it still rocked our marriage in certain areas.

What I tell people is if there are cracks in your relationship, miscommunications, and things you don’t handle well … I’ll use myself as an example. I tend to withdraw and shut down.

My husband is the opposite, and that makes him feel like I want to distance myself completely from him and not want to work it out when that’s really not to me. I’m trying to process it. I don’t want to say something that I’m going to really regret.

It’s just a different mindset. Then you have a serious trauma like this hit marriage, and you have to go into it being aware. My husband and I are polar opposites on so many different things. We’re just completely different, night and day. Then you have the fact that we’re also male and female and grieve differently.

What can you do to save the marriage after losing a child?You have to fight.

You have to fight for the relationships that you want to survive. It will not just be handed to you on a silver platter. We were good solid Christians too. We still had to fight through those human tendencies to revert to what is comfortable and familiar and not want to battle anymore.

You gotta fight through that and be like, “No! You know what? Our marriage is worth fighting for. Our relationship is worth fighting for.”

Not to say that we’ve arrived, because we haven’t, but we have come through a lot of the hardest times.

As you and I were sharing earlier, I read or heard a long time ago that before you share something so close to your heart, make sure that you’re speaking from a place of your scars and not your wounds.

I really feel like my husband and I have … God has brought a lot of healing to those deep wounds. So not to say that we’ve arrived, because we have not, but I do feel like our marriage is more of a place where God has brought some healing salve to those wounded areas, and there’s scarring now.

How long does it take to cope with grief?It still hurts.

That pastor that I told you about, he’s in his eighties, that they lost their daughter. His wife told me, this actually made me feel better, that it had been 37 years at that point. And she was crying when she was talking to me. I remember thinking, okay, I feel normal.

If she’s 37 years away, and it still gets her thinking about her daughter that she lost. Okay. So, I’m not weird. It’s okay.

She told me, “Jenny, you can think about the what-ifs. Sometimes we’ll sit around and think, ‘I wonder how old she would be and if we’d have grandkids’, but I can’t let my mind stay there. It’s not healthy. We have to just say, you know what, God, thank you for those 15 years that we had, and we’re gonna have all of eternity with her now.”

So, shifting that mindset. And their marriage has survived.

They’ve been a great example to us that a marriage can survive. It’s worth fighting for.

Kelly: I love that you had them … I don’t love that they had to go through that too, but I love that you had them as kind of like a mentor. I mean, it really is so true how God puts people in your path.

Jenny shares how she coped with grief from a healing scar, not an open woundI love what you said about sharing things from your scars, not your wounds.

It’s so profound. It really is. Because there is a difference. Once you have felt the scarring, the scars start to heal in your soul and heart. Then you can really help a lot of people.

I love that you are reaching out to help and walk alongside people, especially in your church.

Just sharing your story with somebody can make such a huge difference. Especially coming on and talking to me today, sharing how you have gone through it, is amazing.

People go through these things. But, especially once you’re a believer, once you believe in Jesus, and you declare him as your savior.

We are not meant to cope with grief aloneIt is not saying you’re never going to have heartache. There will be times it’s almost harder because you know there’s a struggle. But having him, he’s there to walk alongside you.

I love that you’re taking that and your pain and trying to help others.

It even says in the Bible, Paul had said, how we comfort one another with these words. That’s kind of the point because no matter what, there will be suffering. There are going to be difficult times. Like you said before, how you’ve gone through these seasons and how this healing is building on itself.

That’s so true. I think because you had that foundation and, like you said, keep the focus on those small nuggets of wisdom and the peace and understanding that God gives you. Because in those moments, it’s not this big thing, sometimes, it’s that small, still voice that will give you that comfort and reassurance.

I love that you said that because it’s so true because we are human. We’re going to go to the muscle memory of anger and fear.

But those small moments and his small voice inside us will build and help us in our weaknesses. He even says in our weakness, he is strong.

How did Jenny’s oldest son cope with the grief of losing his brother, and what did his journey look like?So I love that you had that through this journey because it is very difficult, the path you guys have walked, but you, your husband, and your son walked it together. So Caleb is doing well now? Caleb had a lot of healing to go through as well. How old is he now?

Jenny: He is 27 now. Before the accident, he already had his associate’s degree, and it took him about a year after the accident. He had to learn how to walk again like there was so much physical and cognitive therapy. I didn’t even know there were four different types of therapies that he had to do afterward.

So it took about a year for him to be able to rejoin the world. He went back for his bachelor’s degree and is currently an elementary school teacher in the county where we lived in northeast Florida. Some exciting news is he just proposed to his girlfriend on Black Friday …

Kelly: Yes! That’s wonderful!

Jenny: We’re excited.

Kelly: Oh, congratulations!

Jenny: We’re excited. They’ll be getting married next year. We’re super excited. He’s also been praying about and seeking God’s wisdom on if there’s anything that he can do.

He has a heart for people like him who have lost a sibling because he didn’t find many resources to help him. There’s more out there for parents, and when he told me that, I started looking to see if I could find anything to direct him.

There really isn’t a lot out there for people that have lost a sibling, and not just in a tragic way like this, but just on the whole.

There’s not a whole lot out there. So he’s been considering some steps he might be able to take to help other people. He’s got an entire testimony of his own. He had to navigate through anger towards God, the driver, and even himself.

What about coping with grief and survivor’s guilt?He battled with survivor’s guilt, and he has his own story.

He could also help some people struggling with those issues from losing his sibling.

Kelly: For sure. Especially because they were so young, and it’s so easy when you’re young and don’t have years of experience behind you. But, I don’t know. You guys are pretty awesome. I mean, at 22, you dealt with cancer and everything too.

You were such a good example with that strength, you and your husband together. So I’m so happy that he had you to look up to, but yes, I was going to say that about the survivor’s guilt. I wonder if he struggled with that because it’s his brother.

I’m glad that he’s worked through that.

And he’s a teacher? What an amazing job! Also, at an elementary school, he’s shaping young minds every day, and then to want to reach out and share his story too. I think that that’s just so inspiring.

You guys are good people. It’s wonderful. Honestly, I love that you’re here talking about coping with your grief. I can’t wait to share the episode. I like that you said you always think it will happen to somebody else, and then it doesn’t.

And then when it happens to you, you think, how will I ever handle that?

But I love that God was always with you and all of you. Even in fear and anger, he walked you through that, which is wonderful. So I love you sharing your story.

How to cope with grief using God’s word I like to ask the guests on the show to share a Bible verse, and I know you’ve already shared a couple of verses with us, so I appreciate that. I love the verses that you shared in Romans, and then also about how God doesn’t leave us or forsake us. I’ll definitely put those in the show notes.

When we go to that muscle memory with all that pain instead of going to what we want to do in our flesh, it’s so good to have a verse, even one verse, to take with us to have that truth.

So thank you so much for sharing those verses. Like I said, I’ll also put links in the show notes for the listeners, so they can always take those verses because God does work all things for good, even if we can’t see it.

Which, most of the time, we really can’t. I mean, God’s very mysterious in his timing and ways.

Jenny: There is one more I’d like to share.

Kelly: Yes, wonderful. Great!

Jenny: So, then after the accident, one of the verses that I felt like God gave me for that season of healing, everybody knows Jeremiah 29:11 “for I know the plans I have for you.” Everybody knows that one.

Many people don’t keep reading, though, and right after that, verses 12 and 13, so Jeremiah 29, all the way through 13.

So yes, he does have plans to give us hope and a future, but right after that, he says, “if you seek me with your whole heart, you will find me.”

And after the accident, that verse was crucial to me more than the most commonly known verse 11. Because there were times when God felt so distant, and I know part of that is the grief.

But there were times when God felt so distant, and I just didn’t understand.

I couldn’t wrap myself around why. But God would bring me back to that verse, that if you seek me and seek me with your whole heart, you’ll find me. And that was crucial in recentering me when I got off course.

What does God do when your grief takes you to a dark place?I wouldn’t even realize I’m down a rabbit trail in my thinking. But God would remind me of that verse, and it would re-anchor me on hope, truth, and faith. If I just seek him, if I seek him with everything I have within me, I don’t have to understand. I may never understand. I may understand a little tidbit here, but then get the full thing in heaven, I don’t know.

But I do know that if I really seek him with my whole heart, I will find him. He has proven faithful even in that. Sometimes those questions have been answered, and sometimes they’re still questions that I may never know the answer until eternity. When I get to ask him one day, “why, why did it have to happen that way?”

That’s one thing that I would love to leave with your listeners: if you seek him, he will provide answers.

It may not be in the timing you want or even in the way that you think the answers will come, but he will provide those answers if you really seek it.

Kelly: That’s fantastic. I appreciate you sharing that so much because that is so true. Wow. That’s such a good point, too, the future and the hope, but then you seek him. I love that you shared that you were so honest about times of anger and fear and just getting frazzled with emotion because that’s going to come, it’s going to come, it’s inevitable.

The fact that you could go to that verse is great. I think that’ll really help the women listening to this who struggle with a similar challenge. Coping with the grief of losing a son or a child, or struggling in very fearful situations. Cancer. That diagnosis alone, especially metastasized and stage four.

I mean, it’s very scary. The number one thing that you want to say to God is, why? Why, why, why did this happen?

Your finding comfort is very encouraging. It encourages me very much. I’m sure it will encourage people listening to this and I appreciate you sharing.

We all have the same fears, but God is faithfulJenny: Hey, you’re welcome. I don’t want people to think we’re superhuman or anything. We’re just like you. We have the same fears and same struggles. We’ve just found God to be faithful.

Kelly: That’s it, and we’re not even meant to. One of the things that I’ve shared on my blog and with different people, is that we are not meant to be like “good enough.”

We’re meant to have flaws. We’re meant to be that way, so we can rely on God to really guide us because, in our weaknesses, he’s strong. I love that you shared such a powerful verse. Well, verses is in Jeremiah too. That’s wonderful. I can’t wait to put that in the notes too.

How to learn more about coping with grief and the Leavitt’s journey with GodSo where can we find you if somebody wants to learn more about you?

I understand that you actually just released a new book. Do you want to tell the listeners a little bit about that?

Jenny: Sure. Since my husband is a pastor, he kind of jokes that he’s the preacher, so he’s the one who does the speaking in the family. Since the accident, he’s shared our story everywhere, from mock DUIs at high schools to small groups at churches. Wherever they ask him, he shares our story, and he’ll tailor it for the audience.

And inevitably, people would come up to him afterwards and are like, “well, what’s the rest of the story?”

He says no, I’m the preacher. My wife’s the writer, so that’s kind of how it evolved. I just wrote our book, and we strategically released it on November 25th this year, which was Black Friday.

But it also would’ve been our son Jacob’s 25th birthday on the 25th of November.

So we released it on that day. It’s God Prints: Finding evidence of God in the Shattered Pieces of Life. So it tells the rest of our story. It goes into a lot more detail about when I had cancer, even when we lost everything, were homeless, and then the accident and everything.

I also have a website. It’s JennyLeavitt.com

So folks can check it out there. I have the photo gallery that goes with the book, and that’s open to everybody.

Jenny’s website is a place of hope for others coping with griefEven if you don’t read or get the book, you can still scroll through it. I have captions so people can get a feel and look at some things. I’ve shared some tips and things that have gotten us through those hard times. I’m going to continue to build on that. I want it to be a place where people can come for practical help.

A place that I wish we had had seven years ago.

A place that I wish we could have gone to and been like, “Am I normal? Where can I go for help? Does anybody understand this? What are some resources? What are some podcasts?”

I want it to be where people can come and get some hope. So I’m hoping to have interviews with others who have overcome adversity and have those kinds of things too. So to be a place of not just help but hope and healing too.

Kelly: That’s fantastic. Thank you so much, Jenny.

God is working things for good through your ministry, reaching out and, like you said, even just helping. Even if you help one person struggling with a similar thing, then it’s powerful. I appreciate you so much for coming here and sharing your story today.

I will put links to your website and the God Prints book in the show notes. And Jenny, thank you so much. I appreciate you so much for talking with us today on the I Witness Podcast.

Jenny: Thank you so much for inviting me.

Listen to Part 1 of this Interview: What happens to a mother’s faith when tragedy strikes?

Read the blog post for Part 1 of my interview with Jenny What happens to a mother’s faith when tragedy strikes?

Bible verses for encouragement:2 Corinthians 12:9, NKJV “And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”

Jeremiah 29:11-13, NKJV “For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the Lord, thoughts of peace and not evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.”

Bible Verses from Part 1 of the interview with Jenny:Hebrews 13:5, NKJV “Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Philippians 4:7, NKJV “And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 8:28, NKJV “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.”

Where to find Jenny:JennyLeavitt.com

Jenny’s new book, God Prints is available on Amazon.

This episode is brought to you by The Wilson Shop. Visit The Wilson Shop on Etsy for beautiful, Christian-inspired designs on your favorite home decor, apparel, and accessories.

The Wilson ShopThe post How to cope with grief after losing a child – IW EP 004 with Jenny Leavitt – Part 2 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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In part 1 of this episode of the I Witness podcast, Jenny Leavitt shares her journey through faith when an unthinkable tragedy struck her family. The Leavitt family is no stranger to difficult times, and Jenny shares how God prepared her for her worst nightmare.

Kelly: Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host, Kelly Jo Wilson, and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. We have a great show today about tragedy that shakes faith. Our guest is Jenny Leavitt a pastor’s wife, mother, author, and follower of Jesus.

Jenny is amazed by God’s reach to rescue broken, hurting people, and has witnessed God’s faithfulness through shattering loss. Jenny’s passion is encouraging others to lean into Jesus during life’s ups and downs. Jenny lives in Florida with her husband of nearly 30 years, Myron, and her dog Molly, who thinks she’s a cat.

Interview with Jenny LeavittWelcome to the I Witness podcast, Jenny. I’m so happy to have you.

Jenny: I’m so happy to be here.

Kelly: Great, great. Today we want to talk through a little bit of your journey and your struggle with the tragedy that happened to your family. As I said, you can share whatever you feel comfortable sharing. So why don’t you let our listeners know a little bit more about you and your family?

Jenny: Well, I became a Christian when I was 15. I met my husband when I was 16, and we got married when I was 18, so very young.

Kelly: Wow, that’s wonderful.

Jenny: Both of us had parents who were married for a long time, but we had at least one parent that battled with some addictions.

So we carried some baggage into our marriage and then married young. So, obviously, there were some maturity issues that we had to work on together and grow together. Then, we both fell in love with Jesus in our late teens.

God has a way of changing life’s plans and testing faithSo, God has a way of reaching in and changing your life’s plans. And neither one of us really planned on being in the ministry when we were growing up, but God had some other plans. So, we’ve been in some form of ministry almost all of our adult lives. This is the third church he’s pastored that we’re pastoring right now.

Kelly: Wow, that’s wonderful.

Jenny: We’ve also assisted with youth ministry, for years and years back in our home church. That’s actually where we were, in our home church in Jacksonville, assisting with the children’s ministry at the time when the accident happened, back in 2015.

Kelly: So that’s pretty cool that you guys met whenever you were in high school and that you’re like high school sweethearts. You have been married for what about 30 years now? That’s great.

Jenny: We just celebrated our 29th anniversary this past Monday.

Kelly: Congratulations! Happy anniversary.

Jenny: Oh, thank you. Actually, he’s four years older than me, so I was a senior in high school. He was in the military when I met him. I was trying to do the math in my head.

Kelly: Oh, no worries. Yeah, no, he was 20-something. So that’s what we could say.

Jenny: Yeah. Yes.

Kelly: So that’s great, you guys are high school sweethearts celebrating your anniversary. You were into the ministry, which is funny because I agree with you, God definitely works in very mysterious, funny ways. So you had some struggles before the accident. You had some things that you had to fight through.

God prepares ahead of timeDo you want to talk about that a little bit? Talk about some of those major struggles that really shook that faith, shook your faith.

Jenny: Probably the first really big struggle was, I was only 22 years old married just a few years, and already had our two boys, but I got a phone call on a Friday afternoon. I had recently had our youngest Jacob in November of 97. Ever since then, I’d been having a lot of weird, symptoms that they kept trying to blame on postpartum issues, but it was like weird things. One pupil would dilate while the other would stay large, and then they would flip.

So it was like bizarre symptoms. It wasn’t your normal postpartum symptoms. And I never had anything like that with my oldest son anyway. So anyway, finally, after I started passing out and what really got them looking was I got jaundiced, and that’s when they really started taking me seriously.

But I was still only 22 when I got a call on that Friday afternoon. The doctor, the specialist, said, “I hate to tell you this over the phone, but timing is critical. So, I have to tell you over the phone that the test came back, and it’s non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma.”

I was 22, totally naive. I said, “I don’t even know what that is.”

He said, “It’s cancer, and it is in every lymph node in your chest. Your chest is full of it.”

He felt pretty confident that they thought the tumor in my pancreas was the non-Hodgkins lymphoma metastasizing down to my pancreas.

Faith in God was tested and rockedI was only 22 and I think that was probably the first time that, my faith was really tested and rocked.

I gave my life to Christ when I was 15 and thank God that he led me into a good Bible-believing church. At that time, I didn’t realize it, but God was putting some foundational truths in me that he knew I would need.

Like for instance, when I became a believer. I think that one reason God gave me the scripture I’m about to share as a new believer was partly because of my upbringing. My parents were together, but it was rough. One of the scriptures that in those first years before cancer really just was like an anchor for me was where Jesus said, “I’ll never leave you. I’ll never forsake you.”

As much as I loved that scripture, I didn’t realize how much I needed that anchor until I went through cancer.

There were some times, I mean, my husband, God bless him, he was there as much as possible, and he has continued to be throughout the years as I go back for treatments and cancer scares and all kinds of stuff, he’s continued to be there, but the one constant through it all has been that Jesus has always been there.

Jesus never left me He’s never left me, never forsaken me. Looking back, it seems through all these different seasons of my life and things we’ve gone through, there was always a verse that God was speaking to my heart ahead of time. I didn’t even know why he was giving me that one to focus on, but he’s just so good and so faithful like that to prepare us even when we don’t know. That’s what he’s doing, giving us that little kernel of truth to hold onto.

Fear grips faith Kelly: For sure. That had to be scary, especially young, 22, and a new mom, you’re just trying to navigate that with two, two young boys. But, then getting the call. I can totally understand how it can resonate there with you and I love that you had that to carry with you. Personally, I had a similar, similar scare too. I got the call too, and I had to have surgery.

It was cervical cancer, though. But a similar thing. The fear that grips you is so inexplainable because it’s more so for everyone else, I felt like. Did you feel like that? Like you look at your boys and your husband, and you’re like, “I can’t imagine. I have to be here for them.”

I think the scariest part for me was the PET scan. That was probably the scariest part for me. Because going into that, it’s like they know it’s there. But it may be a little bit different for you just because of the nature and type you had.

But for me, it was like, “Okay, is it everywhere, or is it just in this one spot?”

I don’t want to focus too much on that, but I can understand a little bit of your fear. So what a great verse to carry you through.

Faith in God is shakenJenny: That fear was so … I mean, I totally agree with you. I had settled it with Christ, so I felt confident that if God chose to take me home, I knew I would make heaven my home. My fear was my boys. I can’t tell you how many times I would be like, “God. We have a three-year-old and a baby. How is Myron going to do this?”

I know he’s a tough man and everything, but that’s a lot. And that’s a big part of my testimony I’ve shared many, many times over the years with other moms. I remember one night in the throes of all the treatments. I had six months of chemo treatments and 56 radiation treatments.

So somewhere in the middle of all that, in the middle of the night, I couldn’t sleep. My mind was just whirling with all that fear over the boys, “What’s gonna happen to them if I die?”

I found out later that I had stage four and I didn’t know that at the time. I just knew that the prognosis wasn’t very good. I just remember I went out in the living room in the middle of the night and I said, “God, I am not leaving until I get some peace from you about our boys. I can’t keep living in this fear. I just can’t.”

Peace surpasses all understandingI don’t know, it was probably an hour, hour and a half later that I just kept wrestling God about that and just praying. There is no other way to describe it, which the Bible actually says that peace that passes all understanding. You can’t describe it.

It was like this peace just settled on me. God spoke that, that quiet, still voice that he does, and he said, “They’re mine. I love them even more than you do. I’m gonna take care of them.”

There was such a peace that just settled over me that I mean, I kid you not even as they were growing up, obviously, I survived cancer. But, still, as they were growing up, there were times when I probably should have been scared at some of the things they were doing and places they were going. But that peace carried with me.

Wrestling with God I wrestled with God about that and he gave me that peace and that stayed with me. It was a staying factor. Actually the night of the accident, that was crucial in my receiving the news about our boys. That was actually a reference point that I have no doubt that he’s the one who brought that back to my memory.

Kelly: I’m sure. That is intense. That peace is very difficult to describe unless you have experienced it. It’s like when you should be writhing, you’re still. It’s only him that can really do that. Right?

Jenny: Mm-hmm.

Kelly: I think it’s interesting, like you said, how he prepares you with the verse before going through the actual thing you’re gonna go through. So you get through cancer, get through all of that.

So having that peace, and him telling you they’re mine, and you know he will hold them in his hands. Why don’t you tell me what happened later? So, in a way, that was preparing you for the next thing, right? The accident. Like I said, you don’t have to go into a ton of detail, but what happened with the accident. How did you handle that?

Jenny’s faith in God is tested even more Jenny: In the interim. Because I’ve been cancer free since November 1998.

Kelly: Oh, praise Jesus!

Jenny: Yes. The accident happened in August 2015. So in that interim of, what is that, like 17 years or so, another verse that, when I look back in my life, it’s the verse that held those years together.

A lot of people know it. It’s the Romans 8:28, how God works all things together for the good of those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

Because so many times over those years, we saw how. Even on this side of eternity, we may never understand exactly why I had to go through cancer. But we’ve seen how God has used it for good.

Steadfast faith, even when they lost everythingThere have been so many times that a coworker, somebody from the church, our pastor, or somebody will say, “Hey, I just met so-and-so and they just found out they have cancer. Would you guys mind talking to them?” Or, “Hey, I know so-and-so and his wife, and it’s not looking very good. Can both of you talk to them? Because I think the husband could benefit from Myron talking to them too.”

Times like that, just seeing God work good out of it. There was also an interim time when my husband broke his back. I mean, horribly. He’s had two back surgeries since then.

At that time, my husband, who’s a very hard worker and has one of the strongest work ethics I know, was sent home because he wasn’t allowed to work for almost a year and a half.

We lost everything.

We had two houses, we had cars, and we lost everything. So in that interim, we even saw God work those things for good because, during that time of being homeless, we could look back and draw from the times that God brought us through cancer.

My husband would even say, “God brought us through that. He’s gonna bring us through this.”

We could look back and use that as a reference point. So even those things in our life, that scripture, I feel like, was the overall theme for that time. Which led us up to the greatest time of trial in our lives.

A mother’s worst nightmareSo on Saturday, August 29th, 2015, our whole family had been volunteering at our church in Jacksonville. My husband and I worked with the youth, and they were doing a special event for the community. My husband and I were involved and our oldest son was actually in the event.

Our youngest son, Jacob, it was his first time being in the lights and sound ministry. He was so excited.

When you volunteer like that, you’re the first ones there and you’re the last ones to leave. So we had just gotten home, but it was super late. It was almost midnight we got a call from our pastor’s wife, because they drove home a similar way from us, asking us if we knew where the boys were.

When you’re faced with something like that, even with a cancer diagnosis, sometimes that shock and numbness can be like, “no, that happens to other people. That doesn’t happen to me. That doesn’t happen to us.”

So to make a long story short, our boys were in our oldest son’s Ford Escape, and they were hit by a drunk driver.

Our youngest son, Jacob, was 17 at the time, Caleb was 20, Jacob was 17. Jacob died on the scene and Caleb almost died.

A miracle emerged from the devastationTo this day, I’m so grateful for the first responders who were there. It was a dark, dreary night, like drizzling rain out in the middle of the country, so it was not a well-lit intersection.

Without them getting there quickly and getting them in, we would’ve lost him too. It was still touch and go with him for at least a couple of weeks. He was in a coma for eight or nine days. He, he’s had so many surgeries that we have to start with the top of his head and work down to the bottom of his feet to remember everything wrong.

He’s a miracle. When people see him now they can’t believe it because he just barely has a limp when he walks. He’s got so much titanium in him, it’s amazing. He came home in a wheelchair and C-collar and is walking today.

God’s faithfulness all along All those lessons we learned kind of converged all in that timeframe, which was instrumental in how we were able to heal and process. Looking back on our lives, seeing God’s hand of faithfulness, and how he prepared us even when we didn’t know he was preparing us. All those lessons that we learned that was because he knew what was coming.

He had placed people in our lives … one of our dear friends in the fellowship of churches that we’re in, he’s a mentor, almost like a grandfather to us.

Our pastor’s pastor is in his eighties, and he and his wife lost their daughter when she was 15, like 40 years ago. So, we knew that about him. He talks about it frequently when he’s preaching. So things like that God had put into our life, and we didn’t realize the significance.

Until you’re going through that, and even then, I’m condensing months, even years of healing after the accident. Things that God helped us work through. Deep wounds that he had to heal.

These lessons and the people God had placed in our lives were instrumental in that healing.

Healing through faith and surrendering to GodThose verses that I shared with you already, they came back around where we were like, “Okay, all right. You said you would never leave us. You said that you’re gonna work all things for good, all things God. So you’re not a liar. If you said you’re gonna work ’em all for good, we don’t see it right now, but somehow you’re gonna bring some good out of this somehow because you’re a man of your word. You’re faithful. You’ve proven to us that you’re faithful in our times of homelessness, our facing cancer. In me lifting the boys up to you.”

Earlier, when I told you that that was going to be, I didn’t realize how much me wrestling with God about that and finally surrendering and getting that peace.

The night of the accident, when Myron got that phone call in our house, he went to the accident scene. He didn’t tell me this until a lot later, but he was really in the back of his mind thinking, if it is the boys, I don’t really want her to be there until I know what to expect.

So even in the middle of that, he was trying to shield me just in case.

What he did when he found out that it was our boys is he sent one of my good friends who’s also our assistant pastor’s wife, out to our house to pick me up and take me.

In that timeframe, when I knew she was about 20 minutes away, I was just pacing back and forth in the kitchen and in the dining room. Just pacing and trying to pray, and at that point, all we knew was that it was our boys.

The unknown strangled her until she had enoughWe didn’t know anything about their status. I was praying, and I couldn’t wrap my mind around it. I couldn’t get focused.

Finally, I still remember, I stopped by the dining room table and said, “God, you know what. Enough! If you told me all those years ago that they were your boys and that you loved them even more than I do, then I’m gonna have to take you at your word that you still love them more than I do, which can’t fathom, but okay. And so God, I’m choosing, I’m gonna choose right now to trust you. I’m just going to put it back in your hands that even if it’s our boys, I’m going to trust you that you said you love them even more than I do.”

And once again, that peace came over me where I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt. Even all these seven years later, I can still feel that peace when I talk about that time because God knew I needed that anchor. He knew that Jacob was already gone.

Faith in the little things I didn’t know that, but he knew that and knew I would need that anchor. So, once again, it was just those little times, those little nuggets. Sometimes I have told people when I’m talking to him, don’t discredit those little times that God plants those seeds in your life. Hold on to him with everything you’ve got because you don’t know why he’s putting that there.

Our God is so good.

I think there are so multiple reasons He does it. It can be to heal past wounds, past insecurities, and areas where we don’t feel like we deserve his love or his care. But it can also be for something in the future he knows that’s coming that we don’t know.

Bible Verses for EncouragementHebrews 13:5, NKJV “Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Philippians 4:7, NKJV “and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 8:28, NKJV “And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.”

Where to find Jenny LeavittYou can visit her website, JennyLeavitt.com

Her new book, God Prints is available on Amazon.

The post What happens to a mother’s faith when tragedy strikes? – IW EP 004 with Jenny Leavitt appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Part 2 of the Interview with Laurie ChristineHave you experienced God’s peace?

In part 2 of the podcast interview with Laurie Christine, she explores the meaning of God’s peace and how it overpowers understanding. We talk about how God’s peace affected her situation with her son’s heart condition.

Laurie Christine: I thought, okay, we’ve been through this before. We’ve done this three times, and now we can do this. I felt at those moments when we got that news, this is really bad. We’re going to have to do this.

But those were the moments I felt God’s peace.

The verse in Philippians says don’t worry about anything, pray about everything and you will experience God’s peace. In the King James version, or what I memorized when I was a little girl, it said the peace that passes understanding. I never understood what that meant.

What is God’s peace that passes understanding?What is the peace that passes understanding? I didn’t understand the peace that gives us understanding. It didn’t make sense.

But, as I grew and have been exposed to other versions of the Bible, the New Living Translation says you’ll experience God’s peace which exceeds anything we can understand. It’s the peace that surpasses understanding.

It’s the peace that God gives us that we can’t understand.

Like, where did this come from? This is a terrible situation. I should be very anxious, but I’m actually experiencing God’s peace.

I feel that I’ve experienced the promise in that verse.

We will experience God’s peace, which exceeds anything we can understand. His peace will guard your hearts and your minds as you live in Christ Jesus. So just in aside from Elliot’s story, I definitely felt God’s peace that surpasses understanding in those situations.

Anyway, back to Elliot’s story, but I have to throw in those little nuggets of truth.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Yeah, for sure. It’s the best.

Laurie Christine: So they ended up doing the fourth open heart surgery. They fixed the aneurysm and put in a different valve. This is the third one now in that same position. They put in a third valve that was actually bigger.

It worked out well in the end because they could put in a bigger valve, which would not need to be replaced for much longer.

So that was now seven years ago. Elliot was five when that last surgery happened, and he’s now 12. He has been doing really well ever since.

Kelly Jo Wilson: That’s fantastic.

God’s design. Laurie Christine: He has very few restrictions on life. I think by God’s grace, he doesn’t really love sports. But people always ask me if he can play sports and does he have any restrictions.

I’m like, well, he doesn’t like sports, so that actually worked out okay. He could play sports if he wanted to, but he couldn’t get hit in the chest. He has a very weak sternum and rib cage. So contact sports would not be the best for him.

But, the way God designed him, he doesn’t desire to do that. So it all worked out, but we still see the cardiologist. First, it had been every three months and then every four months. Now it’s every six months.

It’s a journey, but God’s peace prevails.They continue to monitor everything. There is still a possibility down the road, actually a likelihood, at some point in his life, that he’ll need additional surgeries as he outgrows something in his heart.

He had a conduit placed in his heart and a valve replaced. He’s got some coils in his arteries, so as he gets older, some of those pieces may need to be updated or replaced. If a valve fails or something like that.

But it’s not anything on the schedule. It’s not anything anticipated at this point.

I often tell people it’s kind of like your car. You know you’re going to have maintenance on your car at some point, but you don’t know when the muffler’s going to go out. You take it to get a checkup every couple of months or once a year, and then they tell you. Time to replace the muffler.

That’s how it will be with his heart. I want to say that I’ve put all worry and anxiety behind me, but …

Kelly Jo Wilson: Not for mama

Laurie Christine: For the most part, that is true. We’re not living daily in the reality of his heart condition.

We continue to trust God through the anxiety.A couple of times a year, when we go to the cardiologist, I am a little nervous. I think, this is when they say you need to head up to Boston again. Or something is not going right, so you need to check this out.

There’s always that underlying little bit of anxiety. But we continue to trust God, that he’s good, in control, and that He loves Elliot. He is working in Elliot’s heart. His physical heart and his spiritual heart as well. We continue to trust God with him.

Kelly Jo Wilson: That’s wonderful. That is such a good picture of the journey itself. I mean, it’s never the one thing, like you said, and it’s been seven years since his last surgery, but every six months, every three months, it’s always a reminder.

I can imagine how in that time it’s like, here we go, God, I need you to do it again.

But I love that you guys are so faithful. I think it’s so important and so sweet that you said the peace that passes. That’s how I’m going to remember that going forward, is the peace that passes.

It’s interesting that you say it was an overwhelming peace. I’ve heard other people in different situations talk about that too. I’ve actually experienced it myself, for a heart issue for my son who just turned one.

Jesus shows up.Just a quick little story.

We went in, and they did the ultrasound at the five-month mark when they check the anatomy. We had about six different people trying to find the large vessels in his heart. By the second group of people, I was looking at my husband like this is not good.

It took a long time to find, and they didn’t see the major vessels in his heart. So they thought maybe he didn’t have them. They weren’t able to visualize it correctly.

You were much more graceful in what you shared about how you guys were in those moments.

At that moment, I was like, “Jesus help us!” Literally screaming out of my soul. I can tell you that minutes later, he showed up because the doctor suddenly said, “oh, I see them. I see them. It’s okay.”

It was very intense. But, it is interesting, the overwhelming peace. It’s how it is when you live through that, and hard to describe in words sometimes.

Being your friend, I love that you guys could experience that, and it didn’t have to be an overwhelming peace with a different decision that God had made with Elliott’s life.

I just love that he’s doing well now and that you guys are taking the journey each step at a time.

There was one thing that I wanted to point out from your podcast episode. I thought it was so wonderful, and I was hoping you could share it with the listeners.

Everybody always says in times like this, very challenging times where you have to trust God, that God doesn’t give you more than you can handle. I love what you said about that. Would you mind sharing that? What your take on that is?

God does give you more than you can handle.Laurie Christine: Sure. You hear all the time that God won’t give you more than you can handle. But I don’t believe that’s true. I think that God definitely gives us more than we can handle.

I actually have a scripture verse to back it up.

Many times people quote the verse in first Corinthians 10:13, which says, “no temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful. He will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.”

I think many people take that out of context and say, well, this applies to any situation I might be struggling with.

But that verse is specifically talking about temptation. So I think when we are tempted to sin, God gives us a way out. He does give you an option. You don’t have to give in to that temptation, but this verse does not apply to other challenges, struggles, or trials.

Because God definitely gives us more than we can handle. Anyone who’s gone through something like this says, “I can’t handle this. This is too much.”

We aren’t equipped, that’s why we need God’s peace and strength.When someone tries to tell you, “God knows that you, he chose you to go through this because he knew you could handle it, or he knew that your character was really strong.”

Anyone on the other end of that conversation is like, no way. I know that that’s not true of me. I know that my character is flawed, and my character was not anything special that God chose me to go through this.

There’s a verse in 2 Corinthians chapter one, and it was Paul writing to the Corinthians about a trial he was going through. He said that “we were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure,” far beyond their ability to endure so that “we despaired of life itself,” they wanted to die.

This was such a difficult situation that they were going through, and he said we felt that we had received the sentence of death.

I know some of you listening may have gone through situations where you have gotten news of a diagnosis or a tragedy, and that’s what it feels like. Your despairing of life. You feel you’ve received a death sentence beyond your ability to endure.

But the next verse says, “but this happened that we might not rely on ourselves, but on God.”

We might not rely on ourselves but on God. I absolutely think that God gives us more than we can handle, but his goal is to cry out to him and rely on him, and we come to a point in our life where we realize that we can’t do it.

We need God’s peace.We can’t handle this situation on our own or do it in our own strength. His strength is what we need.

We need God’s peace, joy, and love.

That’s what we experienced going through the situation with our son Elliot. I called out to God, saying, “God, we can’t go through this on our own we need you.We desperately need you to walk through this with us, to be right beside us, to give us the strength, to give us peace.”

We definitely saw God’s faithfulness through the situation and God being faithful to give us his peace.

We saw God being faithful to give us his joy, and I hesitate to say that God was faithful in healing our son because no matter what the outcome had been, God is still faithful.

You know, we are very thankful. We’re incredibly grateful that God chose to heal our son. He chose to give us the outcome we had been praying for, but God would still be faithful. Even if that had turned out very differently.

Kelly Jo Wilson: For sure. I love that you highlighted that and shared the scripture too. I can’t wait to put that in the show notes so everybody can go right to that scripture and say, yes, he does give us more than we can handle to rely on him because, in our weakness, he is strong.

With God’s peace and compassion, we comfort one another.Laurie Christine: I’ll just point out real quick right before that verse, and if you’re, if you’re wanting to dive into 2 Corinthians chapter one, it says God is the father of compassion and the God of all comfort. I love that verse that promises God gives us comfort.

“He comforts us in all our troubles and has compassion on us.” It says, “so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves have received from God.”

I see how we went through this really difficult situation. Still, now here seven years later, I am here talking with Kelly. I can share God’s goodness and faithfulness, able to offer comfort to other people because God has comforted us.

I just wanted to encourage you all with that.

Kelly Jo Wilson: That is a huge encouragement. Thank you so much, Laurie. You’re so right, absolutely. That’s the purpose of this podcast: to comfort one another with how God has comforted us in the challenges we’ve gone through and how it builds your faith and relationship with him.

I appreciate you sharing, especially about your baby boy. I’m so happy that he’s doing well now.

Really quick just to wrap up. If another mother is listening today and struggling with a similar situation in her child, what takeaway would you want her to remember from this episode?

What is the one thing that you would give to encourage her?

God is with you, even when it’s really hard.Laurie Christine: Just remember that God is with you in your struggle. It doesn’t mean the struggle or the situation will go away, but that God will walk with you every step.

I would encourage you to be in the scriptures, to be in God’s word. That’s how God communicates to our hearts, through his spirit to our hearts. Through his word. That was lifesaving for me when I was going through the situation with Elliot.

Clinging to those promises of God and to the scriptures, reading them over and over again, memorizing them, meditating on them, and just claiming those promises to be true.

Even when the situation around me felt really, really hard.

Resources for youKelly Jo Wilson: That’s beautiful, Laurie. Thank you so much. I’m sure that’s a huge encouragement. I will definitely share the verses Laurie has shared with us today in the show notes to give anyone listening to that encouragement. You can pick specific scriptures to help you along the journey as well.

Laurie, we can find you on your website, but I also wanted to just talk about your website. You have so many wonderful resources to share with moms with different focuses.

Is there one of them to share with the audience today or just to talk about? I can put a link to it in the show notes.

Laurie Christine: Sure. Like Kelly said, I have a lot of free resources on my website.

Where to find Laurie ChristineYou can find those at www.LaurieChristine.com. Things like how to have family devotions with your kids, how to pray for your kids, and a lot of different bible stories for families.

The one I’m most excited about is a recent book I wrote that is available for free.

It’s a free download on my website right now, especially for boys. So if you’re a mom of boys, I’d love for you to go check out my podcast, Redeeming the Chaos.

Kelly Jo Wilson: It’s great. Check it out.

A special book for your sonLaurie Christine: Also, if you have boys between the ages of 8 to 13-ish, I have a devotional book specifically for boys, and it’s called Rise of the Enemy, and it’s the first book in my Dragon Slayer Bible series.

It’s an action-packed adventure that’s a retelling of a Bible story. There’s a devotional and a short Bible study. The whole theme of this first book is spiritual warfare. Putting on the armor of God and teaching our boys how to defend their hearts against the lies of the evil dragon.

Right now, it’s a free download on my website. You can get it for free, but later this year, I’m hoping it will be available in print for you to purchase.

If you want a free copy now, head over to my website, and you can download it at www.dragonslayerbible.com.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Wonderful. It looks like a very exciting book! I cannot wait to download it and read it with Jake. It looks fantastic.

Thank you so much, Laurie.

I appreciate you talking about your journey through Elliott’s heart condition and your faithfulness, and the grace God has shown you and your family with us today. I’m sure that it’s going to be encouraging to a lot of people. So thank you so, so much.

Laurie Christine: Well, thank you for having me on the show, Kelly. It’s been really great chatting with you, and I appreciate being here.

Listen to part 1 of this episode here.

Links: www.LaurieChristine.com

Redeeming the Chaos Podcast

Free books and resources for you

Rise of the Enemy: Dragon Slayer Bible Book

I Witness Podcast Merch at The Wilson Shop on EtsyThe post How to Know God’s Peace with Laurie Christine – IW 003 Part 2 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Do you find it hard to trust God?

Do you believe in God’s promises when facing a difficult challenge?

We have a great show today about trusting God through challenges. Our guest Laurie Christine had to rely on God’s will for her firstborn son through a difficult diagnosis.

Laurie Christine is an author, podcast host, certified biblical parenting coach, wife, and mom of four wild, loud, adventurous boys. Her podcast, Redeeming The Chaos, invites moms of boys to join her in the wild, wonderful adventure of raising courageous boys and connecting them with Christ.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Laurie, thank you so much for coming. I’m so happy to talk to you.

Laurie Christine: Hey Kelly, I am so happy to be here. This is so fun.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Yes, absolutely. Laurie and I are in a mastermind group together to help grow in our writing, influence among other people, and foster the call that God has given us. So, I’ve had the pleasure of knowing Laurie for a couple years now, and I am so happy to have you on here.

Laurie Christine: Thanks so much. Yeah. Three years. We’re coming up on three years here.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Three years. It’s so crazy! Laurie has a very interesting story that I just wanted to expand on a little bit. Laurie, your podcast tries to reach moms of boys, and I am one of your target people with two crazy boys. But before we get into a little bit of the story that you shared on your podcast, why don’t you just tell the audience, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself, your family, where you’re from and just a little bit more about you.

Part 1 of the interview with Laurie ChristineLaurie Christine: I am from Pennsylvania along with Kelly, and I am a mom of four boys and a wife. My boys are ages 6 to 12. We’re right in the middle of raising our kids. We’re out of the baby stage, the toddler stage, and I almost have a teenager, so that’s getting a little, I’m getting a little nervous about that.

Kelly Jo Wilson: A little nerve-wracking with that age for sure. But what a great range of ages. How fun is that? Right now as we record this it’s right before Christmas, so that probably looks really fun in your house.

Laurie Christine: It gets a little wild and crazy. They’re very excited. Lots of energy in our house.

Kelly Jo Wilson: I’m sure. It’s probably just wonderful. I wanted to expand a little bit on what you shared in your podcast episode about what happened with Elliot, your oldest son, and his journey through his heart condition.

The initial diagnosis shocked everyone. A lot of our listeners really struggle with trusting God and facing different challenges that are very difficult. We do have a lot of moms that also listen. If you don’t mind, why don’t you tell us about that journey with Elliot whenever he was very young and expand to let the listeners know about your journey through that too?

Laurie Christine: Our oldest son, who is now 12, was born with a congenital heart defect, and we were not aware of it at the time he was born. We found out when he was about three months old. Then we took him to the cardiologist and found out that he was in congestive heart failure, and you know, that’s not the news you wanna hear about your three-month-old little boy.

That’s something that you hear about older people. Congestive heart failure, isn’t that an older person’s disease or ailment? We were told that he would need heart surgery within a month.

When he was four months old, he had his first heart surgery. We didn’t know at the time, but he would end up, over the next two and a half to three years, having four heart surgeries to fix the problem in his heart.

It was a scary time. We didn’t know what to expect, but looking back, we saw God’s grace through all of it. I think one of the ways that we saw God’s kindness and His grace in our lives was that we didn’t know everything that was gonna happen. we didn’t know, we couldn’t see the whole picture. We only knew that he had this heart defect and he would need one heart surgery.

The easy fix turned into a rare condition.The cardiologist said, “oh, you know, it’s not that big of a deal. You know, this will be an easy fix. Now, look up this one thing.” We went home and Googled it and it was a rare heart condition. I said, wait a minute. He didn’t say anything about it being rare. What’s going on?

It just seemed we learned a little bit more with each step of the journey. We could see God gave us grace for that next step. We just saw God’s kindness in that.

He had his first heart surgery. We found out during the surgery that the condition was a little bit worse than they had originally thought. They couldn’t perform the procedure they thought they could.

They did a palliative procedure to hold him over until he was a little older. We were disappointed they couldn’t fix his heart then but thought it’ll just be one more, and then they’ll be able to fix it.

“This is the last one.”During the next surgery, we thought it was the last thing that’s gonna have to have to happen. This is the last one.

In the second surgery, they went in to do the repair, and we found out it’s actually way worse than we thought.

They told us, “you’re gonna have to have two more surgeries.”

God gives grace one moment at a time.Looking back, I think if we knew, here’s what you’re gonna have to go through, that this is serious, and he’s going to have four heart surgeries before he turns five. I think that would’ve been so overwhelming.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Oh yeah.

Laurie Christine: But just knowing one step, then the next step, like, “okay, what do we need today? What do we need to do next?” I think it was God giving us His grace one moment at a time.

Kelly Jo Wilson: I think that’s such a good thing to touch on because, you know, at the moment, it probably didn’t seem like that at first. Because you have that fear. As a nurse, I’ve seen many patients and families handle terrifying news and diagnoses.

But like you said if you knew everything at once? It’s so overwhelming already, just one element of it. Especially you being a new mom, and your son is being diagnosed with anything, any type of condition is very scary. But I think once you realize that it’s a journey, you have a different perspective. Initially, that is something God does share in His grace. He shares that preparation for each step, which I think is such a great way to look at it.

But at the time, were you feeling anxious? What were you going through at the time, initially in that office when they were telling you?

Trusting God through fear and anxietyLaurie Christine: Yeah, there were definitely times of fearfulness and anxiety. But also times of just overwhelming peace too. In situations where I would’ve thought I would be so upset or worked up, I could feel God’s peace in my heart, helping me to think rationally and take the next step.

But yes, for sure, there were definitely a lot of times when we didn’t know. We didn’t know what the outcome of the surgeries would be. We didn’t know what his long-term prognosis would be. There were a lot of times that I was fearful and anxious.

I tend to be an anxious person in general. Situations like this kinda escalate those feelings of anxiety.

Do not fear, for I am with you.But during those times, I really just clung to God’s promises in scripture. Throughout the Bible, there are so many times where God says don’t fear.

Do not fear, do not worry. I went through and did a word search in a Bible app. I just looked up all the passages and verses when God says, do not fear or do not worry. There’s a whole bunch, but I came up with maybe 8 or 10, and I printed them out on card stock. I carried those around with me for those years.

I just had this pile of Bible verses and would read them, meditate on them, and just focus on those promises God had made.

One in particular that I loved was Isaiah 41:10, which said,

“Do not fear for I am with you. Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.”

So many times and in many verses, I found the reason to not be afraid. God wasn’t saying, don’t fear because nothing bad is ever gonna happen. Or don’t be afraid because everything’s gonna be totally fine.

That wasn’t the promise. The promise was, do not fear because I am with you.

Laurie Christine: God’s presence, the reminder of God’s presence, and clinging to that promise of God’s presence was something that just helped to get me through those periods of fear and anxiety.

Cling to God’s promises.Kelly Jo Wilson: That is so wonderful. It’s so reassuring. I think it’s so great that you printed out the scripture that you’re like, no matter what, he’s coming with me in my purse.

But I think it’s a really important point to make sure that we hold His promises close. That’s what’s so great about having His word at our fingertips. In free Bible apps and things like that, we can go right to the source and remember what He tells us.

But you also pointed out how He says, don’t fear because I’m with you. That comfort He gives you to know you’re not alone is so profound. It’s just so amazing. I’m so happy you felt that in those moments. I think that’s important.

How was it between you and your husband? Were you two handling things? I would imagine handling as a unit, but sometimes things like that happen, and it’s almost like a grieving process. Because you’re trying to handle what’s coming at you, and both of you are probably taking things in a little bit differently.

So how did you two walk together on that path? Was that a challenge in itself, or did you guys have a connection?

Complete surrender of our son in God’s hands.Laurie Christine: I felt like we were on the same page. I feel it probably brought us closer together during that time.

We had to trust God and put our son in God’s hands, praying for him and our families surrounded us with support.

I wouldn’t say that it caused extra stress between my husband, and I think that it was something God probably used during that time to help us. Connect in a common cause almost. A lot of times, there’s conflict. If there’s conflict in your life, or in a marriage, many times it’s between the two of you. The conflict gets between you.

But when the conflict is outside of you, and a difficult thing to go through that was outside us, we were going through it together. I felt that was helpful.

But, just talking about trusting God, I think my faith was challenged.

I really had to wrestle with, do I trust God?It was strengthened but challenged at the same time. I really had to wrestle with, do I trust God?

Do I trust that he is good?

Do I trust his character and that he wants what’s best?

I never doubted his power, which was interesting. I never doubted God’s power because I knew that God was powerful, and I knew he could heal my son.

He had the ability to work through the surgeons and allow everything to work out how we were hoping. But I didn’t know if that was his will. I didn’t know if he would allow something more tragic to happen so that we would be drawn closer to him.

God works in mysterious ways. I sometimes found myself trusting in the surgeons more than in God. I thought the surgeons had my son’s best interest in mind and they want to heal my son. They want to fix his heart.

But I didn’t know if they could. I didn’t know if they had the power. I knew that the surgeons would fix Elliot’s heart if they could.

Trust God could, but unsure if He would.But on the other hand, I knew that God could do it if he were willing and would do it. I just had to trust in God’s character, you know?

In the Bible, through scripture, what is God’s character? God is loving. God is good. Even if this doesn’t feel like a good thing in our lives.

Even if this doesn’t feel like a loving thing for God to do, I know that this is true of him, and I’m gonna continue to trust that it’s true no matter what the outcome.

Kelly Jo Wilson: That is so hard to do. Because if you look at anybody in a situation like that, similar, you could say, Yes. I love how you said, I know God could if he would, and that’s the thing. We know God can, but you trusting him isn’t if he can fix him. It’s trusting him if he’s going to fix it or not.

So I can see where you could say, I know the surgeons really want to heal him, but if God doesn’t, I need to trust that he is taking us through a different journey here.

We didn’t choose it, but He gave us grace for it.That is so hard, especially as a new mother. I’m sure you had plenty of people saying, I don’t know if I could go through that. Because when it’s yourself versus your son, it’s so different, right?

I mean, it’s just so different. You would probably die for your son, you know? So it’s just a different kind of thing. It definitely takes you through a different trust journey there.

Laurie Christine: It’s interesting that you said about people’s comments, “how do you handle a situation like that? How could you have? I could never go through something like that.” We had people say that to us, and I just had to chuckle a little bit cause it’s not like we chose this.

I don’t feel God chose us to go through this because we had any special abilities or special qualities. God gives you the grace to go through what he gives you, what he puts in your life. He gives you grace when it’s needed. People would be like, “oh, I could never handle that situation.”

It’s when you’re forced to handle it, then you do.

Trust God’s grace for today.God doesn’t give you grace for the things that might happen, or the things that you’re worried about might happen. He gives you the grace for today. He gives you grace for what is happening right now. So you take the next step, and continue to trust him.

We were thankful for God’s faithfulness in being who he is and who he said he is. His character, his goodness, and his lovingness.

Kelly Jo Wilson: Absolutely. I think it’s so important to really focus on his word and what he tells you. Because it’s so easy, like you said how you felt anxious and fearful, to listen to everything else, such as people close to you who generally have good intentions.

It’s easy to get distracted by your feelings and your emotions in situations like that, especially with your baby boy. But it’s just like you carried the promise cards around. I love that so much. I think it’s so strong.

Even when you probably felt weaker than you ever felt in your whole life.

What ended up being the outcome? You guys realized pretty early that this wasn’t gonna be a one-time thing. That this was a journey. What was the outcome of Elliot’s journey? How is he doing now?

A blessing emerged.Laurie Christine: That’s a great question. So after his first two surgeries, we ended up getting a second opinion from a different cardiologist who sent us to a different Children’s Hospital in Boston.

We went to Boston Children’s Hospital, the best in the world for pediatric cardiology. We were so thankful that God brought her into the situation, and we connected with her because, in Boston, they were able to repair his heart.

They were able to make the repair that the other hospital couldn’t. And so, after his third surgery, Elliot was two. Anatomically it looks very different, but it’s functioning properly.

Trusting God through the unexpectedHis fourth surgery was actually very unexpected. That was when he was five we had another opportunity to trust God. We thought this was behind us. We thought that we were moving along.

When he was five, one of the valves in his heart which had been replaced during the previous surgery, failed.

He needed a valve replaced. We went to Boston again. I know Kelly, you know all about cath labs, but for those of you listening who have no medical experience, basically, they were going to go in through an artery with this long tube and put a valve into his heart and not even have to cut open his chest at all.

That was the plan.

They did the heart catheterization and put the new valve in during that procedure. But he developed an aneurysm on his pulmonary artery.

An aneurysm is basically a bulge, like a weakness in the artery. It got bumped or knicked, and this big bubble was a weak spot. It’s a pretty dangerous situation.

There were a couple of days he was under general anesthesia and intubated, so for two days, we waited to see if it would resolve itself. He was in a very fragile state.

Then the surgeon came in and told us we would have to operate again. We’ll have to go in and do a fourth open heart surgery to repair what had just happened.

If you’d like to hear more about Laurie’s son’s journey, visit her blog posts Can I Trust God with My Son’s Heart? – RTC 52 and My Miracle Baby.

Visit Laurie’s podcast Redeeming the Chaos.

If you want to learn more about trusting God through challenges and the perfect love He has for you, visit the post How to Trust God with the Hard Stuff.

Listen to Part 2 of this episode here

I Witness Podcast Merch at The Wilson Shop on EtsyThe post How to Trust God Through Challenges with Laurie Christine – IW 003 Part 1 appeared first on Kelly Jo Wilson.

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Kelly: We have a great show today about healing and hope. Our guest is my friend and fellow author, Carolyn Rice.

Carolyn has suffered severe abuse but found comfort and healing at the feet of Jesus. Jesus led her to serve people in numerous ministries that helped her. In addition, she has served as the alumni director for Seattle Bible College, where she received her associate’s degree. Carolyn’s books encourage, empower, and walk women through the word of God into the victory that only can be found in Jesus Christ.

Carolyn, welcome to the I Witness Podcast.

Carolyn: Thank you. I’m excited to be here.

Kelly: Yes, I’m so excited to have you. So, Carolyn, why don’t you share a little bit about your background, your family, and what you feel comfortable sharing with our listeners? We’d love to know a little bit more about you.

The past abuse and traumaCarolyn: Okay, so I came from a background of severe trauma where I experienced physical violence, but I also witnessed physical violence as a child. I grew up with that trauma and brokenness, and it led to more dysfunction for me. I thought dysfunction was normal. The Lord had to pull me out of that.

I also come from a background of the occult. My family was into tarot cards, palm reading, and ouija boards, and I didn’t come from a Christian home. I only knew about Jesus at a young age because of a woman named Wanda. I went to her house and heard the name God mentioned, but I didn’t know what or who it was. I thought He was like this big giant. Somebody said He was this guy up in the sky, and I really thought of Jack and the bean stock. So, I went to my neighbor’s house, and I was like, who’s God? is there really this big giant and the sky? She started telling me about Jesus and how He died for my sins.

That was my experience with the gospel as a child. The Lord had to bring me out of brokenness. My testimony about how I came to the Lord is through Wanda, but I grew up in that dysfunction and in the occult. But I actually read tarot cards. I was reading tarot cards one night and heard this voice that said, “Turn on the tv.”

I turned on the TV, and a woman was talking about ouija boards and tarot cards stealing your soul and that we needed to live for Jesus.

I threw them away and started walking with Jesus for the rest of my life. I never looked back.

I never looked back. Kelly: Wow. That’s amazing. I’m so sorry that you had to endure the trauma that you had to endure. But, sometimes, God brings you to the other side of it.

Carolyn: Yes, He does.

Kelly: That’s amazing. I love that. You had such a sweet heart that you thought He was this big guy in the sky because it would sound like that. Especially when you’re young and you don’t know. I appreciate you sharing that so much. Do you remember who you saw on tv? Who was talking about tarot cards and talking about Jesus?

Carolyn: I don’t. It was so long ago. I really don’t remember who it was.

Kelly: It accomplished the task and put a deep enough seed in you, right? That’s wonderful.

So, you saw on TV and heard His voice to you, which is very scary sometimes because it’s that reverent kind of fear you know is powerful, but it’s not gonna hurt you. Is that how you felt whenever you heard Him speak to your heart?

Carolyn: Actually, I didn’t think anything of it. I was just like, “Oh, I should turn on the tv then.”

Kelly: That’s wonderful. I’m so glad that you turned on the TV that day.

Carolyn: Me too.

What does the healing journey look like?Kelly: Where did you go from there? When you decided to follow Jesus, what did that walk look like?

Carolyn: It was a journey. It was a healing journey. One of the verses, when I think about my healing journey, is in Isaiah. It talks about how God didn’t bring them straight to the point where they could have been. Instead, He brought them the long way, and I feel like the Lord really brought me the long way.

There was a guy in our Bible college class who said, as he’s drawing on the board, the journey with God goes from here to this point. Then it goes over here, and then here, and then here, and finally, you get over here. That is my journey with the Lord. He took me from one thing to another, and I really feel like my life is like that verse.

Taking the long wayHe had to take me the long way because the things that I faced, especially with a background in the occult, to face them all at once would’ve been too much for me. It was a journey of healing, growing, and bringing me step by step to a place of healing. I realized that each thing He got me through prepared me for the next.

Kelly: That’s wonderful. It is so true that it is a journey all over the place. That is so funny. You’re absolutely right. I feel like you hit the nail on the head whenever you say He is preparing you in each phase or in each part of it. That’s wonderful.

Someone with a history of what you’ve gone through has a wonderful opportunity to reach people differently. Because we feel so much comfort when speaking to people who go through things we’ve gone through.

Why don’t you talk a little bit about when you went to Bible college and were involved in women’s ministries and what that journey was like when you went to Bible college?

What did God teach you?How was it learning there? Did you learn many techniques and tools that helped you embrace your story and share it, especially with women who have gone through similar things?

Carolyn: My journey to Bible college is interesting, too, because I wanted to be a librarian. I worked at the library, and I would pray, and I’d feel “go to Bible college instead.” I was actually going to school to be a librarian. I dismissed it, then someone came to my house who had no idea what God had been talking to me about, and they were talking about Bible college and how great it would be. It kept coming up.

So I said, “Lord, if you really want me to go to Bible college, show me where to go.” My husband and I were on a breakfast date, and I saw a sign that said Seattle Bible College. I checked it out and said to my husband, “I think I need to go to Bible college.”

He goes, “Well, where would you go?” So I told him, and he said, “That’s where my family went.” I had no idea that they had gone there.

So I went there, and one of the teachers said my name, and looked at me and said, “So which Rice do you belong to?”

An unknown legacy I came with this legacy that wasn’t mine but my husband’s. He firmly planted me, and I didn’t have a really good grasp on the word when I went there.

But through Bible college, I grasped the word. I feel like I got a fire hose of the word, a fire hose on me. Because I had not learned that stuff as a child or a young adult, and I read my Bible, but I didn’t understand a lot of it. I just went to Bible college in obedience to Christ.

He really changed my life. I learned how to study the scriptures, understand them, and apply them to my life. I learned the background and history. Then I was able to take that and give it to other women. But what Bible college really did for me is teach me how to live in that for the rest of my life. How to study the scriptures, and how to pull out the truth. You know that saying, teach a man to fish, and he’ll fish for a lifetime, that’s what I got at Bible college.

Kelly: That’s wonderful. Wow. I didn’t even think about how you didn’t grow up in that. Gosh, that would be like a fire hose, for sure. Wow, that’s amazing. But the Holy Spirit helps you all the way. Where God guides, He provides. That’s great. I love it so much.

So what else would you say you got from Bible college, with your firehouse of information, and it’s a part of you now. Is that what started your writing journey? Is that what started your writing ministry?

The next step in the healing journeyCarolyn: I think that provided the background, but after I graduated from Bible college. I said, “Well, what’s next?”

Because I wanted to be a librarian, I went to Bible college because He told me to. I had no idea what we were doing. I don’t think God did this or caused it, but I broke my foot about a month after Bible college. I was off my foot for five months because it took a long time to heal.

During that time, I was like, “Well, what do I do now? I can’t clean my house. And I’m just kind of sitting here.”

That’s when I saw this ad for writing classes, and I just knew that’s what I was supposed to do. I ended up studying writing way longer than my foot was broken.

I studied with a company for three and a half years how to put an article together, writing fiction and nonfiction, and that’s where I learned how to write.

Kelly: Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry you broke your foot. That takes so long. There is really nothing you can do at all. Did you have a cast?

Carolyn: I had one of those big black boot things.

Kelly: What a way to put you right where you needed to be and stop you at all costs.

Carolyn: Yep.

Where God guides, He providesKelly: He has a way of doing that. But I think you are showing us something really important that maybe you don’t see or maybe have not even realized. I definitely see it so clearly, and it’s just obedience. The obedience you have for Him, listening, letting Him guide you, surrendering the control. Surrendering is so difficult.

It is, especially from the background that you have. But, so often, when people go through what you’ve gone through with the abuse and everything, there’s a fear guiding your life. It’s so scary to give that control away. It’s so hard.

So, I think it’s wonderful, amazing, and really inspiring. It inspires me. I’m sure it will inspire many women that listen to this to have that kind of obedience to really listen to Him and do what He’s asking. Even when He gives you a broken foot.

Even in those challenges because that in itself is a challenge. We had something similar happen recently. My husband had an accident. Let me tell you, it’s been a difficult time.

You’re a mom with a daughter, a son, and a wonderful granddaughter. You’re most likely the glue holding everybody together, and here you are with this boot on and can’t walk. But I love that you were still sharing your knowledge and ministry.

After you did the writing classes, what was the project, your first book? How did that look? Did you start writing every day?

What was that journey like? I’m sure God was guiding you through.

Working through obedienceCarolyn: I knew I was supposed to write a book, and I knew how to write a devotion well. I felt like the Lord, well … this is some background on the book I’ve never told anyone about. I pulled out every verse I could find on the love of God. I meditated on that verse for myself. I studied that verse, and then I turned each one into a devotion talking to a woman who has been broken.

I was talking to myself in the past and giving her hope in speaking to her.

I knew I was supposed to take all these devotions and turn them into a book, and I didn’t know anything about publishing. Someone introduced me to a publisher named Athena. I prayed “where am I supposed to go with this?” Every time I prayed about it, I would see this Athena water truck go by.

Carolyn: I published my first book with Athena. I’ve gone on from there, but the Lord really showed me the publishing journey through her. She really believed in my book, and I did my first radio interview with her. So it was really praying and following Him. I realized that when you don’t know where to go, wait until He shows you and step out.

I was always afraid of making a mistake and doing the wrong thing. The Lord showed me that if I make a mistake, He’s gonna make sure I get back on the right road because He’s a good Father. When we step out in that obedience, if we make a mistake, He will not judge us and pound us with a hammer. He’s going to lead us back in the right direction.

God leads us in the right direction.Kelly: Oh yeah, that’s just beautiful. Carolyn, thank you so much for saying that because, man, do we need to hear it. I totally understand the fear of making a mistake. That’s something that always plagued me, personally, and a lot of women listening to this, too. You want to try and do everything right. But yes, absolutely.

Man, that is so funny about the truck. He’s showing you right there. He’s like, “This is how you do this. Just go with them, and that’s it.” That’s wonderful. I love your trust. During this whole journey, even though it was kind of like a scatter plot, did you feel like your trust just grew and grew, even though you still had challenges?

You still broke your foot, and I’m sure there were other challenges, such as never publishing before. But, also, thank you for sharing how you put your book together, especially if you’ve never shared that before. I feel honored that you’re sharing that with us today, honestly. That’s so much work, going through each verse like that. Especially when you have no idea because you didn’t plan necessarily to put them into a book. So you were doing that genuinely to learn, and God has repurposed it and made it new. That’s just so inspiring, honestly.

Trusting God through the healing journey.But do you feel your trust throughout this is growing? Or is it still kind of like, what the … what’s He doing?

Carolyn: It’s, it’s growing. But, I enter situations where I’m like, “Lord, I don’t, I don’t understand this. Why am I going through this? I just obeyed you.”

I have to stop and remind myself what He’s already done. And when I do that, it helps me trust Him to move forward. Even now, I’m in a time of transition where my husband and I have walked into things that we didn’t realize we would walk into, and the Lord keeps putting that verse in front of me.

I will see the goodness of the Lord and the land of the living. I’m crying right now, but I will see the goodness of the Lord. I will have joy. I will praise the Lord once again.

Encouragement in Bible versesKelly: That’s wonderful. That was going to be my next question for you, is there a verse that really resonated with you that you’d like to share? Because I feel like a lot of people sometimes can’t, especially when it’s hard times, you can’t really remember because you’re overwhelmed and feeling really upset.

Kelly: So it sounds like you said that verse is from Isaiah.

Carolyn: Yeah, I didn’t write that one down, but I did write one down, though.

Kelly: Oh, good. What’s the verse you’d wanna share?

Carolyn: John 14:27 “Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” NKJV

Kelly: That is so powerful. I can see where that verse can really stick with you in your journey, for sure. It’s not easy to find peace in this world, but especially when you’ve had a start like you’ve had as a child. So yes, thank you so much for sharing that.

Healing the Father WoundWhy don’t you tell us a little more about where we can find you and where we would be able to find your books. I know you have a new book, Healing the Father Wound. Why don’t you talk a little bit about that book and how it can really bless our listeners, especially with the focus of healing and the hope that Jesus provides.

Carolyn: Healing the Father Wound is a book about looking at God the Father. I’m just gonna share the story of where this book came from.

We were sitting in church, and this pastor from our church, who’s not the regular pastor, was speaking. He said, “Anyone who’s birthing something in prayer, stand up.”

I felt like maybe I should stand up, but I don’t know. My husband’s looking at me like, “you should stand up.” But I didn’t. He wanted to pray for intercessors. Then my heart started beating out my chest, and this guy goes, “The woman who’s sitting there in your heart is beating fast, you need to stand up too.”

God calls you where you areSo I stood up. Now I know the man very well, and he’s a very good, faithful, authentic Christian. But when I stood up, I looked at him and saw anger. So I went home, and the Lord was putting on my heart to go back and watch the Facebook live of that church service, so I did.

When I stood up, there was no anger on his face at all. So the Lord showed me that I was putting anger on any man in authority. I saw him as angry. I saw him as controlling, and I knew I needed healing from that. So Healing the Father Wound is going through the book of Mark, because Mark is the action book, and looking at the actions of Jesus. John 14:9 says that when you’ve seen Jesus, you’ve seen the Father, and relating to what we see in Jesus by his actions to what our Heavenly Father is like. So many women who have been through trauma and abuse, we have looked at other men in authority, even the Heavenly Father, as angry, controlling, and mean. That’s not who our heavenly Father is. So it’s looking at who He really is.

Looking at God for who He isKelly: Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that, too. I love that. Your heart was beating out of your chest, and he called it so accurately. But that’s very true. A lot of women struggle with that, and I love the humility that you have. But, again, it goes back to your obedience. To listen and look at it again because you could easily say, no, this is how I see it. But you went back and saw how he didn’t have that face at all. He was trying to call on you to validate what you were already hearing and feeling. That’s amazing. We can find this book on your website, yes?

Carolyn: Yes, it’s at CarolynsBooks.com.

Kelly: Wonderful. I will definitely put a link in the show notes. Carolyn’s newest book, Healing the Father Wound, sounds like it will be extremely inspiring and bless so many people. Especially in the book of Mark, it’s such a wonderful book.

So before we go, is there any other encouragement you would like to share with the women who are listening? Or share a takeaway from your journey of where Jesus brought you from, even when you were young until now? Through all of this obedience you’ve shown, is there one encouragement you would like to share for women who may have struggled or are still struggling with what you’ve endured?

Do not give upCarolyn: Do not give up. Keep following the Lord. He’s gonna bring you on a journey, and it may not look how you want it to look. You may not be miraculously healed overnight, but tomorrow you will be a little bit more healed than today. In a month from now, you’ll be more healed than you are today. Then, when you look back years, you’ll see all that the Lord has done in your life.

We may not understand why things happen the way they do, but when we are old, when we’re on our last days, we’ll be able to look back and see how good the Lord is. I’m middle-aged and am already looking back and seeing how wonderful the Lord has been to me. Where would I be without Him? I just, I don’t even wanna think about it.

Kelly: Yes, totally. I agree. Thank you so much. That’s just wonderful. I feel honored that you’re here today. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It’s extremely inspirational to all of us. I know I definitely have a new outlook on a lot of things, especially the struggles you’ve gone through, and I can’t wait to read your book. Carolyn, thank you so much again for being here.

Carolyn: Thank you.

*This is the edited blog version of the podcast episode. Some parts may have been edited or changed from the audio version for ease of reading and flow of information.

If you or someone you know suffers from abuse or domestic violence and want help, you can visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline or call 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE).

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Welcome to the I Witness Podcast. I’m your host, Kelly Jo Wilson, and this is the show for women who struggle to accept their worth but want to embrace their gifts and share their witness for Jesus. Are you fighting the never-good-enough battle? Do you want to embrace your unique gifts to share Jesus’s love […]

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In this pilot episode of the I Witness podcast, Kelly Jo Wilson provides an overview of the podcast's goal and plan for future episodes. Kelly shares her raw testimony about the secret struggle with a mental illness that spiraled her into a toxic mindset. Find out how Jesus showed up when Kelly was too broken to ask Him for help.

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