The Persuaders podcast: Recent Episodes
Anders Kopp Jensen
The Persuaders is a podcast about Public Affairs. In the podcast we will dive in to how Public Affairs professionals solve their daily challenges. Their trials and tribulations. Their tips and tricks. The guests will come from many different types of companies and organizations across the world.
The host of the podcast is Anders Kopp Jensen. Anders is the co-founder and CEO of Ulobby. Anders holds an MA in political science and has 10+ years of experience from politics and Public Affairs both on the consultancy side as well as in-house. He is also the author of "The Public Affairs Engine", a guide on how to build and fuel the PA engine in your organization. The guide is based on more than 500 conversations with PA professionals across Europe.
"Public Affairs - from a firefighter to a business enabler?" - this is the topic in this episode of the Persuaders Podcast - the only podcast only about Public Affairs...
In this episode we cover one of the biggest challenges in the Public Affairs departments across Europe right now: How Public Affairs can earn legitimacy. To explore this topic, I have invited Jacob Lund Nielsen in to the studio. Jacob Lund Nielsen has a long and impressive career in Brussels especially known for founding Cabinet DN, his time at Teneo as well as Rud Pedersen - Jacob is a founder, CEO and advisor. In the podcast we discuss: - Why Public Affairs is stuck in some organisations - and what are the signs? - Being typecast - born out crisis - why does this become a problem? - The lack of business skills in Public Affairs - How has Public Affairs evolved as a function (and discipline) in organizations? Including the relationship to Comms - What has changed in society and internally in organizations that call for changes in Public Affairs? - How can Public Affairs become a business enabler? What happens if it doesn't? - KPIs and measuring - a necessary evil to earn legitimacy? Hope you will enjoy the episode as much as we did.
Check out www.anderskopp.com for more resources about Public Affairs.
Host: Anders Kopp
Producer: Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard
The Public Affairs Manager Survey is a new yearly survey, which includes new data, insights and perspectives on the state of Public Affairs in Europe.
93 Public Affairs professionals from 27 countries in the EU has been interviewed for the survey by Anders Kopp.
So in this episode co-host Sosun Sendi, Public Affairs Director at Ulobby, interviews Anders about the findings of the Public Affairs Manager Survey 2025, including:
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Where is the Public Affairs function typically based?
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How is the relationship between Communication & Public Affairs?
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The biggest organisational challenges for Public Affairs Professionals currently?
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What is the typical size of the Public Affairs function?
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Budgets for Public Affairs the last 12 months - increased or decreased?
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Are the Public Affairs Professionals typically measured by qualitative or quantitative KPIs?
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Social media - how do Public Affairs Professionals include this in their activities?
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Top 3 skills needed to succeed in Public Affairs in the future?
The Public Affairs Manager Survey is available for free via www.anderskopp.com from the 18th of November.
The episode was produced by Sidsel K. Nørgaard.
Find all episodes of the Persuaders podcast as well as other resources about Public Affairs on www.anderskopp.com
The Persuaders podcast - the only podcast only about Public Affairs
New episode of the Persuaders Podcast is out! The only podcast only about Public Affairs...
This time we dive into one of the hottest and most hyped trends in our field: AI and lobbyism.
My guest is Peter Aagaard, Associate Professor at the Department of Social Sciences and Business at Roskilde University in Denmark.
Peter has recently published an essay called "Digital lobbying 2.0," about AI and lobbyism, as a part of the Danish Democracy and Power Study.
In the episode we cover:
- Is AI "the weapon of the minority"? Or have we heard this before?
- The AI-hype and similarities with the SoMe-era
- What will AI mean for the politicians on the receiving end of these AI-tools/functions?
- Which skills will be needed to succeed in Public Affairs in the future if AI changes the playing field?
- My (contrarian) take on AI - or digital innovation - and Public Affairs
Check out www.anderskopp.com for more resources about Public Affairs.
Host: Anders Kopp
Producer: Sidsel Kaae Nørgaard .
Shownotes:
- Peter Aagaards research:
https://forskning.ruc.dk/en/persons/peteraa
- Peter Aagaards essay in the Danish Democracy and Power Study (in Danish only):
https://ps.au.dk/fileadmin/Statskundskab/Billeder/Forskning/Forskningsprojekter/Magtudredning/Essays/Essay_af_Peter_Aagaard.pdf
- Other research mentioned:
Alberto Bitonti - "Tools of digital innovation in public affairs management: A practice-oriented analysis" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/pa.2888
This time we talk about some of the biggest and hardest challenges in Public Affairs today: Delivering value and building a Public Affairs function from scratch!
To help me cover these enourmous challenges in Public Affairs, I am joined by Stefan Pinter, Head of Public Policy EMEA at Suzano - the largest pulp manufacturer in the world as well as one of the largest paper producers in Latin America.
Stefan has first hand experience on this topic as well as impressive merits from working with Public Affairs in difficult industries filled with challenges, like pharma, tobacco and energy. So I talk to Stefan about:
Delivering value:
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how do you provide value in Public Affairs?
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why is it often a challenge for Public Affairs pros to prove themselves?
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how do you contribute to create value when you are basically a cost-center?
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are there differences between industries - do some industries "get" Public Affairs more than others?
Building a Public Affairs function: - how do you approach this and balance building a function while also delivering value short/mid/long-term? - what should Public Affairs pros be aware of before they just jump in to it and start executing? - how do you interact with other units/departments in your organization during the way? - how do you work on Public Affairs issues cross borders and handle any cultural/geographical differences? Tune in and get the answers in just 40 minutes.
This episode is sponsored by Ulobby, software for Public Affairs.
Host: Anders Kopp
Producer: Sidsel K. Nørgaard
New episode of the Persuaders Podcast! Episode 2 of season 4. In this episode we talk to Thea Utoft, who is a Senior Managing Director at FTI Consulting in Brussels. She leads Financial Services Public Affairs across EMEA for FTI Consulting. In 2023 Thea was recognized as one of the 40 top influencers in Brussels by Politico. So how do you become a "super lobbyist"? What skills or mindset do you need? In the first half of this episode we get Theas views on these questions, and we learn more about her way to becoming one of the most influential people in Brussels. In the second half, we talk about the political year ahead of us in 2024 with many political transitions with EU elections, new presidency, US elections etc. E.g. Thea estimates that up to 60% of the MEPs will be new after the elections. So what will happen in Brussels in the coming quarters? And how can or should you prepare as a Public Affairs professional? Find out by tuning in to this episode of the Persuaders Podcast with Anders Kopp. This episode was produced by Sidsel K. Nørgaard.
The Persuaders Podcast is back with season 4 - with more insights from the world of Public Affairs! We have entered a new year and traditionally we kick off the year with an episode about trends in Public Affairs. This year is no exception! So in this first episode of 2024, Sosun Sendi, Public Affairs Director at Ulobby, takes on the role as a guest host of the podcast, as she quizzes the normal host, Anders Kopp, about the trends in Public Affairs for 2024. In the conversation, Anders points to three trends in Public Affairs in 2024: #1 - Recession - or the fear of recession - may hit the Public Affairs functions harder than they think #2 - Public Affairs will need to move out of the firefighter or garbageman position to compete - a new management approach is needed #3 - A year with more insecurity from geo-politics & EU elections - both an opportunity and threat to the Public Affairs functions Tune in and get more context and reasoning behind these three trends - as well as Anders' best advice for PA pros this year. All this in just 30 minutes!
And remember to check out www.thepublicaffairsengine.com for more insights from the world of Public Affairs.
Enjoy!
Episode 3, season 3 of the Persuaders Podcast - with Maria Teresa Scardigli, Managing Director, Kellen Europe. Maria has more than 20 years of experience in European Public Affairs, advocacy, and management of trade associations. From Brussels she heads Kellen on a European level and manages a team of about 40 professionals serving +30 trade associations. In the episode I talk to Maria about a new trend influencing the world of Public Affairs: More companies join forces and establish their own interest or trade association. This development can be seen as a reaction to the increasing complexity in the policy arena and the need for more professionalization to continually catch and retain the attention of policy makers. A trend we have also covered from a more academic POV in previous episodes e.g. recently with Wiebe Junk in episode 2 of season 3. In this episode with Maria Teresa Scardigli we cover: - Which factors have changed for the roughly 600 trade associations in Brussels - Why policy makers have much higher expectations than previously - Marias views on why many new trade or interest associations are born - If some trade organizations have become too big to represent all their members - How Public Affairs teams have changed - and how this is then reflected on the expectations on the trade/interest associations All this in just 30 minutes! And remember to check out www.thepublicaffairsengine.com for more insights from the world of Public Affairs. Enjoy!
Episode 2, season 3 of the Persuaders Podcast - with Assistant Professor Wiebke Junk.
This time we talk to Wiebke Junk, who is an Assistant Professor at the University of Copenhagen. The starting point for our conversation in this episode is Wiebke's paper from 2022 "Is There a First Mover Advantage in Lobbying? A Comparative Analysis of How the Timing of Mobilization Affects the Influence of Interest Groups in 10 Polities", co-authored with Michele Crepaz and Marcel Harnegraaff. Among other things we cover: - The effect of timing in lobbying - Who can benefit from early lobbying - What are the mechanisms behind timing - The supply & demand side for moving early - Why jumping to the front of the line and shouting is not always the right thing to do - If small lobby organisations can just copy the big ones - And finally we discuss if it's only ressources that matter in the end 30 minutes filled with insights about Public Affairs. And remember to check out www.thepublicaffairsengine.com for more insights from the world of Public Affairs. The episode was produced by Rikke Bergquist. Notes:
The paper "Is There a First Mover Advantage in Lobbying?" can be found here:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00104140221109441
The Persuaders podcast is back with season 3! We kick off this third season with a special episode about trends in Public Affairs in 2023.
At the beginning of each year Anders Kopp Jensen shares his thoughts about trends in Public Affairs, exclusively on the podcast. Again this year, Ulobby Public Affairs Director, Sosun Sendi, takes on the role as guest host for this special episode and interviews Anders about what will happen in Public Affairs in 2023.
In the episode Anders answers:
- Why he thinks PA pros are often underperforming, and what they can do to get out of the "fire-distinguisher" role
- What PA pros should focus more on in a rough macro / recession environment
- Why the organizational setup matters - and the position of the PA function internally is more important than ever
- Why PA pros fear KPI's - and why this is a mistake
- Why it is more important than ever to have a Public Affairs strategy and why many often fail to create it
- Why many organizations (without a Public Affairs strategy) should implement a Public Affairs Code of Conduct
All this in just 30 minutes. Remember to subscribe to the Persuaders Podcast so you don't miss the coming episodes of season three!
This episode is sponsored by Ulobby, the leading SaaS-platform for Public Affairs professionals in the Nordics.
The episode was produced by Rikke Bergquist.
This time we talk to Ellis Aizenberg, Assistant Professor at the Faculty Governance and Global Affairs at the University of Leiden (time of recording Ellis was working at Aarhus University in Denmark). Ellis conducts her research in relation to interest representation, lobbying and perceived legitimacy. We talk to Ellis about her recent article in Governance called “Conflict and salience as drivers of corporate lobbying? An elite survey experiment"
In the episode we cover:
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How conflict can motivate companies to lobby alone instead of together with a business organization
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Different strategies companies can take when they are lobbying
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The challenges business associations have in interest representation - What affects the "appetite" for seeking visibility (or the opposite)
And Ellis also shares her view on transparency registers.
All this in just 30 minutes!
This episode was produced by Sidsel Nørgaard and sponsored by Ulobby, software for Public Affairs.
This time Alan Hardacre swings by the studio and shares his perspectives on the state of Public Affairs as well as the importance of the internal side of Public Affairs.
Alan has a PhD in international relations from the Loughborough University. Alan has many years of experience both in public administration as well as on the corporate side. He has been practising, teaching and writing on advocacy and Public Affairs for over 20 years. Among other publications, Alan has authored the book “How the EU Institutions Work and... How to Work with the EU Institutions”.
In this episode we cover:
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How to build a high-performing Public Affairs function, and how not to!
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Why Public Affairs in the EU is behind the US
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Why EU companies see Public Affairs as a risk-managing function & why that is problematic
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The importance of getting buy-in from senior leadership
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How to avoid being isolated as a Public Affairs proffesional, e.g. if you are based in Brussels
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And one of my favorite topics: the importance of taking the internal side of Public Affairs just as serious as the external side
All this in just 30 minutes!
This episode was produced by Sidsel Nørgaard & sponsored by Ulobby.
In this episode 4 in season 2 of the Persuaders Podcast we talk to Marko Kovic.
Marko has a PhD in communication and media studies from the University of Zurich. He is now a researcher, author and podcaster.
Marko co-authored the paper "Digital astroturfing in politics: Definition, typology, and countermeasures", which is the basis of our conversation.
In the episode we cover:
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What is digital astroturfing
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How common is this phenomenon
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How is it performed - by governments, IO's and corporations
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What it does to our brains
We also talk about misinformation, fake news and conspiracy theories and what causes them to go viral. And finally we talk about psy-ops & disinformation e.g. in wars like in Ukraine.
All this in just 30 minutes.
The episode is sponsored by Ulobby, software for Public Affairs.
In this episode I talk to Marc Dober, Managing Director of Dober Partners and also the man behind Best in Brussels. The Public Affairs job market is on fire at the moment. The demand for skilled Public Affairs pros is by far exceeding the supply. The COVID-19 pandemic has played a big role as a catalyst for this, but also as Public Affairs is no longer just considered a defensive discipline - it has become a business enabler. Marc unfolds these new tendencies and also talks about which skills are in demand currently. He also spills the beans on what he is currently looking most for when recruiting for clients. Specially one skill in particular stands out! We also talk about the wage growth in our industry, which Mark finds unprecedented - and he reveals the current wage levels.
Episode 2, season 2 of the Persuaders Podcast - with PhD Maiken Røed.
This time we talk to Maiken Røed, who recently defended her PhD thesis, at the department of political science at Lund University. In her research Maiken primarily focuses on interest groups, political parties as well as the EU. In this episode we discuss when political parties listen to interest groups - in the light of Maikens recent paper “When do political parties listen to interest groups?” - published in January 2022. In our discussion Maiken - among other questions - answers:
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Which type of parties copy from proposals from interest groups?
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What does media attention mean for how much political parties copy?
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Do political parties change how much they copy and adopt up to elections? And what is the difference between incumbents and opposition parties?
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What does the political system mean for adopting proposals from interest groups?
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If you are an interest group is it then better to stand alone or find alliances in terms of increasing your chances of party adoption?
Answers to all these questions in just 30 minutes!
This episode is sponsored by Ulobby, the leading SaaS-platform for Public Affairs professionals in the Nordics.
The episode was produced by Sidsel Nørgaard.
The Persuaders podcast is back with season 2! We kick of this second season with a special episode about trends in Public Affairs. At the beginning of each year Anders Kopp Jensen shares his thoughts about trends in Public Affairs, but this year he shares them on the podcast. Ulobby Public Affairs Director, Sosun Sendi, takes on the role of guest host for this episode and interview Anders about: * Why he believes the way the Public Affairs function is structured can be more important than hiring "hot names" for the PA team * Why understanding the environment that the organization is in and what drives it can be more important than a large network * Why PA professionals are suited to take charge of and drive sustainability efforts in organizations, as well as which skills will be in demand when recruiting PA professionals the coming years
All this in rougly 30 minutes.
This episode is sponsored by Ulobby, the leading SaaS-platform for Public Affairs professionals in the Nordics.
The last 2021-episode of the Persuaders podcast is now out!
My guest on this episode is Sara Carrer. Sara has an impressive career with more than 13 years of experience from the consultancy side before joining the UN World Food Program in 2021 as a Chief Political Officer.
In this episode we discuss:
- How you handle the switch from the consultancy side to working for the biggest humanitarian organization in the world - How Sara is driven by purpose and how the pandemic and an educational course about happiness and fulfillment influenced Sara to think about her own life and career
- Why Sara enjoys teaching in political communication and why it is pivotal for people working in/with policy, Public Affairs or engagement to communicate with emotions - and data!
All this and much more in just 30 minutes!
In the 10. episode of the Persuaders podcast my guest is Christophe Diercxsens who works for Too Good To Go as a Global Public Affairs Manager. Christophe has 10 years experience from the consultancy side before joining Too Good To Go in 2019.
In this episode we discuss:
- How you handle the switch from the consultancy side to working in-house, including the differences, challenges and pressure.
- How Too Good To Go wants to create a paradigm shift to address food waste - and how you actually approach that from Public Affairs perspective.
- How you handle working at a rapidly growing company - operational in 16 countries with almost 1400 employees - from a co-working space in Brussels when HQ is based in Copenhagen.
All this and much more in just 30 minutes!
My guest on this episode is Troy Scully. Troy is an American living in Brussels and has worked in different senior communication and marketing roles at Lockheed Martin for more than a decade before joining Goodyear in 2016, first as a communications director and now Vice President for Communications & Public Affairs in the EMEA region.
In this episode we had a great conversation about many aspects of Public Affairs, but in particular we wanted to discuss the organizational aspects of Public Affairs.
During our conversation we discuss:
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The placement of the PA function - how it should (ideally) work together with the rest of the organization and the implications you might experience if you place it in the legal team, the R&D team, the communications departments etc.
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The importance of aligning the inside and outside of the organization and how PA pros can deliver this "glue" by providing context to the rest of the organization - a great description by Troy as it also points to where and how PA pros can differentiate themselves as well as create and show their value internally.
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And finally we cover how to measure progress and Troy shares a great project management method which can be used by PA pros - it includes creating "contracts" with your internal stakeholders...
All this in just 30 minutes!
This time we are joined by Andrew Hobbs, Partner & Public Policy Leader at Ernst & Young for Europe, Middle East, India and Africa. And this episode we talk about stakeholder capitalism.
Stakeholder capitalism is not a new term, but the term is evolving and is in some ways also being re-defined. As we discuss in this episode, stakeholder capitalism includes focus on creating long-term value not only for shareholders but also for customers, suppliers, employees, communities etc. We talk about why this is important and maybe even necessary to avoid or minimize the damages if you get into trouble as a company and how it can help you in war-time.
Andrew shares his views on what E&Y has learned and how they approach stakeholder capitalism. And he gives a few pieces of advice for Public Affairs professionals and how you gain trust internally and externally and finally how you get leaders involved in the PA work (including stakeholder capitalism).
In this episode I had the pleasure of talking to Anna Koj, Managing Director for Mavence in Brussels. Mavence is an international recruitment firm at the crossroads of Public Affairs and people management.
In this episode we get the headhunters perspective on the state of Public Affairs and how 1) the demand for PA pros is increasing and many are currently being approached, especially from consultancies, 2) due to COVID-19 some PA pros in Brussels have moved back to their home countries and now want to stay there, 3) COVID-19 has changed some of the skills in demand - maybe for the better, with a bit more openness to diversity.
Finally, we also talk about one of my favorite topics: how PA pros are working closer to the C-suite and what this requires from the modern PA pro.
The sixth episode of the Persuaders podcast is now out!
This time I had the pleasure of talking to Kristian Ruby, secretary general for Eurelectric.
Kristian has a background from journalism, he has worked as a speechwriter, as an assistant to former commissioner for climate action, Connie Hedegaard, he has worked as a public affairs advisor and as chief policy officer for windeurope - and is now the secretary general for Eurelectric.
Eurelectric represent 3500 companies in the value chain of electricity, and in this episode, Kristian shares his views on:
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How to prioritize issues and formulate a common vision of this industry
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How to handle competing interests
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How he sees Public Affairs as a driver for important societal agendas & change
Finally, Kristian shares his perspectives on how they deal with the concept of green-washing, the importance of telling good stories which change behaviour, and how Kristian saw that COVID-19 brought out some climate sceptics - and how they countered and tried to make the pandemic a launch pad for green change.
In the fifth episode of the Persuaders podcast we fly to Brussels and talk to Yiannis Korkovelos, EU Government Affairs Manager at Philip Morris. Yiannis is a seasoned PA pro with experience from Singapore, Paris, London and Brussels. In this episode Yiannis shares some perspectives from his own world: how PMI is going through massive changes as they are working towards a smoke-free world and why and how they are working with ESG and sustainability. Yiannis also shares some insights on working in an - for some - controversial area, the increased expectations from stakeholders which come with the turf, and the importance of working with data and facts. And finally Yiannis shares his views on why PA should come closer to the CEO and how a PA pro in 2021 should be ready to communicate quickly with the outside world and have a consumer-centric approach.
The fourth episode of the Persuaders podcast is out! This time we jump into the world of academia and talk to Anne Rasmussen, professor at the Department of Political Science, University of Copenhagen.
We discuss the revolving doors phenomenon in Public Affairs: politicians and civil servants moving into the private sector and we get Annes view on if this is a widespread problem. We talk about if interest groups / NGOs get any advantages by hiring former commissioners or top civil servants. And we get an interesting answer to whether they are recruited more from right-wing parties or left-wing. We also discuss if a cooling period should be implemented as well as the positive experiences with the transparency register. We talk about Corona-washing, a new phenomenon in Public Affairs in 2020, as well as if companies can actually drive the trend with more transparency? And finally Anne provides some interesting insights from her research in the filed of digital advocacy.
The fourth episode of the Persuaders podcast is now available. This time my guest is John Lindberg, Public Affairs Manager at the World Nuclear Association.
In this episode John shares his perspective about his shift from parliament to Public Affairs, how he is working to make the debate about nuclear energy more nuanced, but also how the organization and players in the industry can be more proactive and human. John also shares some insights on how they reacted when HBO launched the hit series Chernobyl.
The guest this time is Ann-Nina Finne. Ann-Nina is a Global Public Affairs Leader at IKEA Group. In this episode Ann-Nina shares some great insights on how Public Affairs can work together with communications, learnings from the pandemic as well as perspectives on how Public Affairs can prove its value via strategic foresight and planning for the future. Ann-Nina also provides very concrete tips on how you can make Public Affairs more valuable in your organization, drawing from her background from journalism, communications, government administration and - of course - Public Affairs.
In the first episode of the Persuaders we are joined by Kristian Agerbo who is VP of Public Policy & Market Development at the scooter company VOI Technology. We talk about Kristians experiences from Uber, how PA can support business objectives, and how VOI works with regulators and politicians. Kristian even mentions how he has implemented SCRUM in the PA team!
In this episode I outline some of the reasons behind starting a podcast about Public Affairs. The main driver was the challenges I learned from more than 500 conversations I have had the past 5 years with Public Affairs professionals across Europe.