Or So She Thought: Recent Episodes

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There is so much more involved in divorce than just the signing of the paper and the dissolution of the marriage. In today’s episode, Jyening shares the things involved leading up to it, including infidelity, disrespect, anger, and resentment. She discusses taking ownership over your end of the divorce and trying to be the better person by focusing on the relationship rather than focusing on the past. She also discusses the work she had to do to process these feelings and come to terms with the new reality she faced as a single mother. This includes the process of forgiving herself and her ex-husband, investing in therapy and relationships, and embracing her single status.

[00:00 - 10:39] Opening Segment

• Jyening shares her story of divorce and the emotions that come with it
• The effects of not seeking help
• How Jyening’s divorce has affected her parenting

[10:40 - 29:56] The Fineprint of Divorce

• Jyening talks about how there are lots of things attached to divorce
• • Anger, infidelity, disrespect, shame, and resentment
• Your energy will have an effect on your household
• Focusing on your relationship with your children instead of the past
• Dealing with guilt post-divorce
• Everything should be in the best interest of your children
• The importance and the implications of acceptance
• The stigmas attached to divorce
• • Feeling left out
• It is important to be aware of warning signs before a divorce becomes too difficult or destructive

[29:57 - 49:19] How to Expedite your Divorce

• Being separated for a year
• Jyening shares how they agreed on a shared parenting
• Figuring out what your assets look like
• The difficulties of negotiating a divorce while still maintaining a relationship with your ex-husband
• If you are in an amicable situation, you should finalize the divorce as quickly as possible to avoid any complications.
• Jyening advises seeking outside help, such as a mental health professional or marriage counselor if you are in a difficult situation

[49:20 - 61:56] Divorce: A New Stage of Life

• A chance to grow and become a new person
• Numbing the negative emotions also numbs the positive emotions
• The importance of finding purpose in pain, and how it helped her to overcome adversity
• The importance of teaching her children independence
• Taking pride in being a single parent
• How to survive transitioning
• The importance of acknowledging and valuing one's emotions

[61:57 - 63:03] Closing Segment

• Final words

Quotes:

“Understand that your comments and your energy in your household are going to have an effect on your children.” - Jyening Rose

“Pay attention to the stuff that’s happening before it gets to the point of no return.” - Jyening Rose

“There’s always so much more underneath a divorce than just signing papers.” - Jyening Rose

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Debbie is joined by her good friends Tiffany Whittingham & Thalia Sewell. In this episode, they talk about how it is being black. Racism can start very early in childhood so Black parents need to manage their children’s encounters with racism while taking care of their mental health.

Thalia was born in Edmonton but grew up in Brampton, Ontario. Her parents are of Caribbean descent - her dad is from Trinidad and her mom is from Grenada, so she has the blessing to be able to experience culture from all aspects. She is married, and a mother of 2 beautiful girls, who are 8 and 3. Morning. She is a vibrant and caring soul, an entrepreneur currently working on a few projects and businesses with extensive knowledge and experience along with education in fashion and business marketing. She has a heart that loves her family, the outdoors, photography, astronomy, crafts, and personal styling, and hopes to one day make her mark and leave this earth with a bit more love and joy.

[00:01 - 05:23] Opening Segment

• Welcoming Tiffany & Thalia to the show
• Talks about their experience being first-time parents
• The challenges of navigating parenthood in the modern world

[07:23 - 17:54] Bright Beginnings: Preparation for Parenthood

• Preparation for motherhood
• Parenting is unique for each child. Follow your instinct.
• Figuring it out along the way
• The benefits of having a strong support system

[17:55 - 30:03] Parenting While Black

• What does it look like as a black parent?
• Developing self-confidence in children through instilling pride in one's identity, culture, and roots
• The best advice Thalia received that she still carries up to this day

[30:04 - 1:04] Dealing with Micro-Aggressions

• Working twice as hard as a black woman

• Navigating children and making them aware without bursting their bubble

• The importance of having these conversations with children

• Dealing with bullying and racism

[1:05 - 01:12] Closing Segment

• The importance of seeing a therapist helps you move forward
• See the links below to connect with Tiffany & Thalia
• Final words

Quotes:

“When having a child, no amount of textbook can prepare you for it. No amount of textbook conversations and pep talks can prepare you for what you're actually going to experience.”

“I want you to know that you have two markers against you. You're a woman and you're black. So you make sure you work extra hard for whatever it is you want to do.” - Tiffany Whittingham

“Because if you don't see color, then to me, that's you're not being open to culture.” - Thalia Sewell

Resources

What to Expect When You're Expecting

Rachel Isadora

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Loryn Denise is a Grief Advocate and the creator and host of This Too Shall Suck Podcast which was launched in 2020, is now in over 65 countries, and has over 18,000 downloads. She has had the honor to speak on platforms about grief as a subject matter expert and now even has the chance to teach others how to create a podcast around their purpose. Using her authentic voice, sharing her authentic story, and using her authentic experiences to serve her listeners in their journey, she has managed to reach thousands all over the world who are wanting to grow, heal, and become the best version of themselves.

[00:01 - 05:23] Opening Segment

• Welcoming Loryn to the show
• Brief background and career

[05:24 - 18:38] Coping vs. Managing

• Coping takes away the feeling but the root is still there
• The non-linear stages of coping
• • Denial stage
• Anxiety creeping in with grief
• People assume that depression is always in the dark
• Loryn expresses the importance of going to therapy

[18:39 - 27:04] Representation in the Medical Space

• Loryn shares her insight on the representation of black women
• Do we have an unhealthy relationship with grief?

[27:05 - 41:10] Speaking Up on Unmet Expectations

• With expectations come disappointment
• Loryn’s growth journey
• Normalizing grief not being sad
• The biggest stigma attached to grief

[41:11 - 43:09] Closing Segment

• See the links below to connect with Loryn
• Final words

Quotes:

“You don’t go through grief. You grow through it.” - Loryn Denise

“Normalize grief without being sad.” - Loryn Denise

Connect with Loryn through LinkedIn, Instagram, or Twitter. Check out her podcast, This Too Shall Suck on Itunes.

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Janine welcomes Mariel Hagan, Zofia Barczak, and Colleen Miller, her close friends for over 13 years, to discuss how social media and the internet have changed the way that race is talked about and how this has impacted black mental health. They talk about how they have never talked about color or race with each other because it wasn't important to them, but once everything became public on social media, they started to have conversations about race that they would never have had otherwise. They also talk about microaggressions, which are unintentional remarks that are usually hurtful. Today's episode is focused on being an ally so tune in to find out how to be one!

[00:01 - 09:16] Opening Segment

• Welcoming my close friends to the show
• • Mariel, Zofia, and Colleen
• The importance of being an ally and how it can help break down barriers and stigmas around black mental health in Canada
• Zophia, Maryelle, and Colleen share their perspectives on being an ally and how it has changed over the past few years
• How to Black Lives Matter movement has helped open people’s eyes

[09:17 - 23:55] Dealing with Microaggressions

• How social media has changed the way that people interact, with no judgment or discrimination present
• Microaggressions are unintentional comments or behaviors that are racially or ethnically insensitive
• How racism is learned and how it can be difficult to be an ally because of our emotions
• The importance of having consistency in our actions

[23:56 - 33:55] Anti-Racist vs. Not being a Racist

• It is learned behavior to be racist, and it takes patience and consistency over time to unlearn it
• It is important to be anti-racist to not allow racism around you
• It can be difficult for people to speak out against racism, and it is important to have facts and education on hand to do so
• How being an ally affects mental health, with both sides feeling impacted in different ways

[33:57 - 46:47] The Role of Education in Racial Awareness

• Education is key to breaking the cycle of ignorance and racism, with allies needing to learn about race and history to be effective
• Mental health is always going to be affected by racism, and allies need to be comfortable discussing their experiences with others
• The importance for schools to teach critical race theory

[46:48 - 65:28] Not Seeing Color

• It is hurtful to judge people by their color, and this is the wrong way to do it
• People should instead focus on celebrating the differences between people, and this should be done through conversations
• White people should keep in touch with their black friends, as there is still a lot of work to be done
• Therapy should be more than just going to see a therapist

[65:29 - 66:51] Closing Segment

• Final words

Quotes:

“How can we be the best ally when we're also emotionally impacted by it?”

“The most powerful thing you can do is listen to people's stories and then learn the history to see how it is all kind. It's all tied together.”

“ I think the people's intent behind saying ‘I don’t see color’ is good, but it's not right.”

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Jyening welcomes her sister and best friend Thalia Sewell to the show. Thalia shares that she is a first-generation Canadian and experiences different aspects of both cultures from all angles due to her Caribbean descent. She tells the story of experiencing postpartum depression after giving birth to her second daughter and how her OB office helped her understand what was going on. Janine asks Thalia if having a white doctor or doctor of color made a difference in her treatment. Thalia says that she felt more connected to her OB due to their shared experience of being pregnant. This conversation helps dispel the myth that people of color are not able to seek help when they need it and helps raise awareness about the importance of talking about mental health issues with your children.

Thalia was born in Edmonton but grew up in Brampton, Ontario. Her parents are of Caribbean descent - her dad is from Trinidad and her mom is from Grenada, so she has the blessing to be able to experience culture from all aspects. She is married, and a mother of 2 beautiful girls, who are 8 and 3. Morning. She is a vibrant and caring soul, an entrepreneur currently working on a few projects and businesses with extensive knowledge and experience along with education in fashion and business marketing. She has a heart that loves her family, the outdoors, photography, astronomy, crafts, and personal styling, and hopes to one day make her mark and leave this earth with a bit more love and joy.

[00:01 - 06:36] Opening Segment

• Welcoming Thelia to the show
• Brief background and story
• The tools and knowledge in describing illnesses
• The difference between having a Canadian doctor versus a doctor of color

[06:37 - 15:29] Healthcare for a First Generation Canadian

• Thalia shares her fears and thoughts when she found out about her postpartum depression
• The effects of being a Caribbean descent on access to mental healthcare
• What can we do as a society to normalize access to mental healthcare?
• • Exposing and talking about it
• Mental health and breaking the stigma

[15:30 - 28:03] The Generation Before and After Us

• Thalia talks about how we as parents are responsible for setting the pace for the next generation
• How shame prevents us from talking about mental illnesses
• Supporting our parents emotionally and financially
• Setting healthy boundaries and healthy discussions is key
• Empowering through having a strong support systems
• Mental health is not linear
• Where do we go from here?
• Seeing first generation Canadian as a positive thing

[28:04 - 29:08] Closing Segment

• Final words

Quotes:

“We have to learn to honor our culture, but not dismiss what our culture stands for.” - Thalia Sewell

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When it comes to children, it is important to remember that they understand more than we give them credit for. They can read our emotions and understand what's going on even if we don't explicitly state it. In today’s episode, Janine welcomes Mary-Noah, a teacher and researcher into the topic of emotional intelligence in children. They discuss how the lack of explicit instruction on emotion within schools leaves kids vulnerable to developing stress and anxiety, as well as negative self-perceptions. Noah shares her experience with teaching emotional intelligence to teens, noting that it is important for educators to see how their emotions are impacting their students. Finally, they discuss how addressing emotions early on can help children grow into resilient adults.

[00:01 - 15:47] Opening Segment

• Welcoming Mary to the show
• Teaching students practical tools to cope with everyday stress and anxiety related to school and life
• Mindfulness-based emotional intelligence program
• Mental health issues are often triggered by experiences in childhood
• • Difficult for adults to recognize these triggers in their children
• As adults, we need to learn how to self-educate ourselves about our emotions, as this is an important skill for raising healthy children

[15:48 - 39:28] The Five Big Emotions

• Children and adults feel five big emotions: joy, anger, fear, sadness, and happiness
• When it comes to discussing emotions, experts recommend that people be careful because it can be unhealthy
• The sixth emotion is surprise, and it's something that everyone experiences.
• When it comes to anger, adults should be aware of the stigmas and barriers to accessing care
• Helping children deal with their emotions

[39:29 - 47:48] Mental Health Literacy for Black Canadians

• There is a different journey for black people when it comes to mental health
• • Cultural specific factors such as background, immigration status, and experience with trauma
• Using alcohol and drugs to cope with mental health issues
• There is a need for increased mental health literacy among black Canadians

[47:49 - 50:26] Closing Segment

• See the links below to connect with Mary
• Final words

Quotes:

"It goes to the misconception and the stigma we have around emotion it's not explicitly taught." - Mary-Noah Ndateramye

"We are emotional beings who sometimes do logical things." - Mary-Noah Ndateramye

"Saying ‘Kids are so resilient. They're gonna get off. Oh, they won't even remember.’ Their little body might not remember but the subconscious mind will remember. And that will come up later on when they're ready to deal with it." - Mary-Noah Ndateramye

Connect with Mary through Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter.

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Odion Welch shares her battle against depression and anxiety. Her book, "Breakthrough," was written to help others who are going through similar struggles. Odion talks about her journey in writing the book, which included a Western Canada book tour, a panel at Edmonton Comics Expo, and speaking at King's Way's International Women's Day panel. Odion expresses her desire to show the next generation that they can be successful no matter what their background is. She also discusses the barriers to accessing care for mental health challenges faced by newcomers, and how newcomers can access support and care.

[00:01 - 13:48] Opening Segment

• Introducing Odion to the show
• Brief background and career
• • Author of the book "Breakthrough"

[13:49 - 24:26] Survival: Black People Don't Have the Luxury of Mental Health

• Maslow’s hierarchy of needs
• The importance of understanding one’s backstory

[24:27 - 34:41] Barriers to Identity

• Newcomers have to go through a lot of tests and hoops to become a Canadian citizen
• Many newcomers feel like they have to choose a side in their identity, either being Canadian or having the culture they're from
• Accepting cultural identity can help break down barriers for newcomers and make them more comfortable in their new home.

[34:41 - 44:05] The Seeds We Planted

• Small interactions can have a large impact on someone's mental health
• It is important to have conversations about mental health with coworkers
• Small objects can have a large impact on someone's life
• The idea of change and how it can be seen as grief or a new opportunity

[45:06 - 52:07] Correlation of Language and Culture to Mental Health

• Language is an important part of our culture and can be a source of comfort or distress
• Coping with change requires acknowledging and honoring the various aspects of oneself
• Sharing one’s story is creating an advocate for themselves

[52:08 - 61:50] Showing Up Authentically

• There are so many pieces of our identity that we can bring to the table that we can teach people
• Questions are an opportunity for connection

[61:51 - 65:10] Closing Segment

• Final words

Quotes:

"It's okay to be scared and it's okay to need help. You don't have to do it all on your own. There are plenty of resources available." - Odion Welch

"When we bring these expectations of ourselves to the table and it's not based on something that we've implemented ourselves based on things we've experienced, it's based on what someone else expects from us, be it parents, family culture… there's this disconnect between our authentic-self and these expectations.” - Odion Welch

"There are so many pieces of our identity that we can bring to the table that we can teach people.” - Odion Welch

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Debbie Bermudez shares her experience with mental health, specifically relating to her diagnosis of a psychotic break in her previous relationship. She shares how she copes with stress, which leads to Debbie sharing that she changes herself to keep her relationships healthy. This conversation is about the importance of being intentional with our mental health and wellness, and I encourage you to reach out for support whenever you need it. Debbie discusses how they have worked through difficult times together, and how their love has been a source of strength for them. They express their gratitude to each other for all that they have shared in their relationship and vow to continue to support and love each other until the end.

[00:01 - 14:02] Opening Segment

• Introducing Debbie to the show
• Brief background
• Mental health issues in Debbie’s past relationships
• Debbie discusses how she changed herself to better support her husband and raise their child
• Finding support from community agencies and within her own family

• Taking a certification course on how to help children and youth regulate their emotions

[14:03 - 35:24] Resilience in the Face of a Pandemic

• Debbie discusses how she has been resilient in the past by using mindfulness
• Getting sick and how Debbie coped with it
• The importance of being open to help

[35:25 - 56:06] Resiliency To Heal After Struggling Relationship

• Having the opportunity to look around and see what she was missing
• The need to start focusing on yourself, rather than just pushing through the difficult times
• Building resilience is not a one-time event, but a continuous process that requires learning from past experiences and applying those lessons to future ones
• Resiliency is a process of growing stronger whether they are personal or professional
• Children learn best when they can see examples of resilience in their parents

[56:07 - 63:00] What to Do When Your Foundation Cracks

• Children’s tools are not our tools
• The importance of letting our children be themselves
• Resiliency is not just about being able to handle difficult situations, it is also about having a foundation

[63:01 - 70:00] Closing Segment

• Being intentional in our mental wellness
• See the links below to find out more about Debbie!
• Final words

Quotes:

"So my other little one was so little that the biggest thing that she needed was just to be close to mommy. To be present." - Debbie Bermudez

"You don't have to be the person that other people expect you to be. They can get angry and they will get angry because you're changing and they don't know what to do." - Debbie Bermudez

“It doesn't matter how slow or fast you go, as long as you're moving forward." - Debbie Bermudez

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Welcome to the very first episode of Or So She Thought, where we provide a safe place for us to share our lived experiences as Black Canadians, to be honest and vulnerable about the load we carry and how much it truly affects our mental health. I’m your host, Jyening Rose, and my goal is to explore what lies beneath the mask of strength, to let you know that you are not alone in your journey, and hopefully by talking about these things, together, we will reduce the stigma of mental health and normalize accessing care. In today’s episode, I will be sharing my story with you and my experiences as a black person. We need to start talking about mental health more openly and provide resources for people to work towards reducing the stigma around mental health.

[00:01 - 06:23] Opening Segment

• A brief background about myself

[06:24 - 18:22] Or So She Thought

• I share the reasons behind the podcast
• The signs of an impending mental illness
• How talking openly about mental health enables more people to access care

[18:23 - 20:22] Closing Segment

• Allowing yourself to cry and feel the emotions are okay
• Final words

Quotes:

“Allowing yourself to cry and feel the emotions without throwing a tantrum or shutting down is okay. You're allowed to feel.” - Jyening Rose