Writing Threads: Recent Episodes
Writing Threads
To tell our stories is to pull at their threads, unraveling the truths that make us. We are Stephanie Wilson and Heather Westberg King and we love everything raw and real. This podcast is a conversation about how it feels to unravel the threads of our old stories, and live well with the strong soul threads that stay. With candid conversation and brave readings of well-written essays, we plan to shine a light on the writers and creators that aren't overly famous but should be. This is a podcast for people that love the power of story. Join us.
If you or someone you know has been divorced, is going through a divorce or even thinking about one, please give a listen to Heather and Steph's conversation with Jessica Ashley and her signature powerful insights. Steph, Heather, and Jessica keep it very real and go deep in this episode about finding our way through divorce, including personal stories of what happened, and what it's like now and fears we can reframe. With class and grace, Jessica reminds us that we have been working a muscle that we will need, and all we have to do when the next heavy thing comes is remember to use it. She also gives us some powerful tools for communicating how it's going with our kids, and stands firm in the truth that "ultimately, for some us, it (divorce) is about saving our own lives." You don't want to miss this one!
Sidenote: this episode is only marked "explicit" due to our ability to cuss.
Jessica Ashley is rewriting the narrative of divorce. She is the Divorce Coach for Moms, a CDC Certified Divorce Coach®, and helps women thrive through transitions with grace, creativity, and maybe some cussing. On TikTok and Instagram (@divorcecoachformoms), Jessica is a mom's best girlfriend in divorce, posting two videos daily to a rapidly growing audience of women seeking community and clarity. She's the author of The Blended Family Q&A: 400 Questions to Spark Fun and Thought-Provoking Conversations (Rockridge Press, 2021) and three self-published books for divorcing women. Jessica is an award-winning content creator and writer, and teaches a graduate communication class at Northwestern. Tune in to her as a speaker and guest expert on TV, radio and podcasts, including Oprah's Super Soul Sunday Life Class, Martha Stewart Radio, Listen to Your Mother, and Northern Trust. Jessica wears inappropriately high heels to cheer from the sidelines at her children's track meets, soccer matches and gymnastics competitions. She (reluctantly and instinctively) responds to both Jessica and Ashley.
Show notes:
Jessica Ashley
Divorce Coach For Moms
Stefania Pomponi
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Join Steph and Heather for a candid conversation celebrating ONE YEAR of podcasting, including 47 shows and 10 fantastic talented lovely guests! What have we learned? What do we love about this? Is it proof of growth as humans, the way we can document it here? Yes, that's a big part of it. We've been doing this bare bones project and we're happy with our process (or lack of a process) . P.S. This episode includes Heather's favorite Steph quotes, too!
Ann Imig Listen Life Coaching
Maggie Ginsberg Still True
Deb Rogers - Florida Woman
Casey Coombs
Taya Dunn Johnson
Pamela Dayton
Adrienne Jones
Kristen Mei Chase
Laura Tremaine
pre-order BONUS Secret Episodes especially Amber Haines
The Life Council 10 Friends Every Woman Needs
We Can Do Hard Things with Dr. Becky
Mayam Bialik's Breakdown with Cory Feldman
and the one with Amber Tamblyn
Listening in the Dark (book of essays)
Laurie White
Stephanie's Instagram - Questions for Luna
Enlightened on HBO Max
Dave Grohl's Storyteller
Our Missing Hearts by Celeste Ng
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This week on the Hearty Podcast, Steph records her thoughts from a walk with her dog in the bitter cold and Heather responds from outside a recovery meeting. What parts of your story do you want to share? What are chapters that don't need writing? How do you get inspired when there's so little clarity? This and more, including what Steph is watching that you need to watch, too.
Mentioned in this show:
Enlightened on HBO Max
Find the Hearty podcast on Instagram and Facebook
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Stephanie shares her heart and thoughts after a long couple of weeks, and then shares about a return to a way of joy, through minestrone. How does this happen? This is what resilience means, maybe. That we struggle so hard and joy and peace still enters. Grace, even in small ways or in seconds. Heather responds to Steph about how it feels for her to struggle so hard and still receive these moments of calm and peace. And of course, both Steph and Heather share what they're reading, watching, or listening to this week. Thank you for being here!
mindfulness #struggle #joy
Still Missing Morgan on Hulu:
Internal Family Systems Therapy by Richard C Schwartz
I’ll Show Myself Out by Jessi Klein
Listen to Your Mother on YouTube
Depresh Mode Episode with KC Davis on Struggle Care
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Heather sends Steph another voice letter in this episode because Steph is down for the count with the stomach flu of all ungodly things. Listen as Heather updates Steph about the memory care situation (or non-memory care situation) with her mom, talks about escaping from home for a one night stay in a hotel alone and how that feels, and fills you (and Steph) in on what good stuff she's been watching, reading, and listening to lately. Thank you for being here.
Alzheimers #motherhood #Cults #MemoryCare #DaveGrohl #PokerFace
Mentioned in this episode:
Poker Face on Peacock
Russian Doll on Netflix
The Storyteller by Dave Grohl
Stolen Youth on Hulu
Places to find us:
Facebook Group
Heather's writing
Steph's writing
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Trigger Warning: If you are in an extra vulnerable place, especially as a caregiver or if you are grieving, please skip this one. We want to be careful with your heart.
In this episode, Heather talks to Steph like she's reading her a letter, updating her on moving her mom to a memory care facility. It's raw, friends. If you or someone you know is walking the Alzheimer's/dementia road (boy it's long), please know you are not alone. If you know someone that is a caregiver or family member or loved one of a person with dementia, please pass this on to them. That is not a request for more listeners, but a request to help people feel less alone. Thank you for being here.
dementia #alzheimers #caregiver #memorycare #grief
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As it turns out, this episode has a lot of crying in it. It is being left just as it is. It's real and raw and true, all the things the Hearty podcast is about. Steph and Heather are hurting and their recordings to each other are all about the insides; the pain and struggle in the midst of it all. To say it out loud to each other is healing and powerful and an example of breaking free from darkness through connection. May this episode be just as healing for you.
Mentioned:
Tig and Cheryl - True Story Podcast
Netflix - The Hatchet Wielding Hitchhiker
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Stephanie sits down for a conversation with well-known influencer and writer Kristen Chase to cover all things from Kristen's online career and upcoming debut novel, A Thousand Miles To Graceland, to divorce and how endings and new beginnings sometimes come out of nowhere. (Even when the endings have been a long time coming.) Listen as Steph and Kristen revisit the old blogging days and talk about how Kristen learned American Sign Language and wrote a book, as a single mom. Get your copy of Kristen's debut novel; it's out next week!
Links From This Episode
- Kristen on Instagram @thatkristenagain
- Cool Mom Picks and Cool Mom Eats
- Cool Mom Picks on Instagram @coolmompicks
- A Thousand Miles To Graceland - Kristen’s new novel!
Mentioned in the show:
Jenny Lawson
Ree Drummond Pioneer Woman
Deb Rogers
Cheryl Strayed Tiny Beautiful Things
SignLanguageCenter.com
Everything I Never Told You Celeste Ng
The English on Amazon Prime
podcast #divorce #amwriting #novel #newbook #kristenmeichase
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Trigger Warning (This episode includes conversation about the depths of depression & suicide/suicidal ideation. Please skip it if you feel vulnerable to the topics, or listen with a trusted loved one. Take care of yourself. We love you.) In this episode we dive deep into a hearty conversation about depression, living through the darkness, and even accepting it. If you or someone you know struggles with their mental health, we sincerely hope this episode is cathartic & helps you more clearly understand yourselves and others. We are not experts, other than in our lived experiences. We are simply telling our stories and reflection on our experiences. Thank you for bearing witness. You are not alone. We love you.
Find Steph on Instagram or Facebook
Find Heather on Instagram or Facebook
Find the Hearty podcast on Instagram or Facebook
depression #ADHD #sobriety #acceptance #surrender #menopause
Mentioned in this show:
tWitch
One Mississippi
Tig Notaro
My Lady ADHD on Instagram
My Lady ADHD Podcast
Ann Imig
We Can Do Hard Things Podcast
Pride & Prejudice
Sense & Sensibility
Emma
Fleishman is in Trouble
Modern Family
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In Episode 39, Heather and Steph discuss handling the holidays, letting go and what it's like for an ADHD mom (Heather) and kids. And since both Steph and Heather are forever fascinated by cult stories (especially breaking free) they discuss the The Vow on HBO Max. Oh and let's not forget White Lotus which leads to a conversation about what Heather and Steph need in order to have a good night sleep. (Spoiler: It is not like movies and TV, where everyone seems to sleep with lights on and too many pillows.)
ADHD #TheVow #WCDHT #Anxiety #Holidays
Mentioned in this episode:
Heather’s stickers on etsy (Created by Cole)
Steph’s 11:11 bracelets from BodhiNyx on Etsy
Design Mom Holiday Gift Guides
White Lotus Season 2 on HBO Max
Depresh Mode podcast with Maggie Smith on Despair, Hope, Divorce, & Poetry
We Can Do Hard Things Episodes 157 & 158 Cults: How NXIVM Controlled Women
The Vow on HBO Max
Ann Imig
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Heather and Stephanie share some funny (& sometimes embarrassing) stories and Steph also shares some BIG NEWS! Then stay tuned for suggestions of good ol' blogger friends that have stayed on the Internet (& elsewhere) being funny. It's a "WHO TO FOLLOW" segment of Writing Threads!
Mentioned in this episode:
Glennon Doyle Momastery Carpe Diem 2012
Ann Imig
Glennon Doyle
We Can Do Hard Things
Ellie at One Crafty Mother
Katherine Stone
Leane Vandeman
Kristen Howerton
Dadcation - Michael Mobes
Ree Drummond, The Pioneer Woman
Amy Wilson
Meagan Francis
https://www.momfluential.net/about/
Wendi Aarons
Jenny Lawson
Robin O'Bryant
Janelle Hanchett
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Heather and Steph process what happens over time with both sexual assault and spiritual trauma, and how both kinds of trauma are triggered by similar things. This is a heavy conversation, but the hope is that it brings some knowledge to people who may not understand, and the comfort of recognition for those that do understand. Thank you for bearing witness.
triggerwarning #spiritualtrauma #storytelling #writing #sexualassault #transphobia #keeptranskidsalive #beinganally
Mentioned in this episode:
The Soul at the Center- Heather King on Medium
Matthew Paul Turner on Instagram
Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed
She’s Got Issues- Bipolar 2 Disorder “Chasing the Sparkle” with Mary Katherine Backstrom podcast episode
Dead to Me on Netflix
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Steph and Heather take turns recording to each other in this episode about setting the bar too high and then feeling defeated by not living up to your own idea of how things should be. Of course, Steph and Heather also discuss what they're reading, watching, and listening to. Thank you for being here!
Quotes from the show:
"We need to be mindful of the bars we've set of someone else set, or we've allowed them to be set for us." - Stephanie Wilson
"We do our best even when it doesn't look like our best from the outside." - Stephanie Wilson
"Keep track of YOUR OWN growth." - from a post-it on Steph's desk
Mentioned in this episode:
Tiny Beautiful Things - Elizabeth Gilbert
Reservation Dogs on Hulu and FX
Abbott Elementary on ABC
What About Holly, the podcast
Whiskey When We're Dry
The Handmaid's Tale on Hulu
Inside Amy Schumer
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In this episode Heather shares about a local controversy in her small community, how it feels, what doubts arise, and how it can make her spin with anxiety. Listen as Steph reflects her thoughts and feelings about the ways Heather is feeling and thinking through it all. When do we speak up? When do we take a pause? How do we gauge our reactions and recognize that they are often privileged reactions. What do we really want to be in the world? Big Questions, but maybe sometimes the answers are more simple than our spinning minds would like to make them.
Am I standing up for marginalized people? Am I responding in healthy ways? Am I going to make mistakes? These (&many more) are the questions we often ask that leave us stepping away quietly to do nothing, and we're not doing that anymore.
There is a healthy pause, and then a framework for doing better.
Mentioned in this episode:
Ann Imig - 5 Minute Mood Lift
Maggie Ginsberg
Jeremy Goldberg (almost positive this is the right Goldberg for the courage and stupidity quote. Please correct us if we’re wrong!)
Jill Krause and her company Bufahlow
God Forbid - documentary on Jerry Falwell, Jr.
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You never know what we might talk about. In this episode we talk about control, or the lack of it, how we manage to cope when we can, and much more. A topic that arose is sex work, so listen to our thoughts about that cultural debate, huh? This and more, we're glad you're here for it.
The Bear on Hulu
The Patient on Hulu
Bad Sisters on Appletv+
Culpable Season 2 podcast
Girls Next Level podcast
Melody Beatty episode of We Can Do Hard Things Codependence: How to Stop Controlling Others
ACLU.org Sex Work is Real Work and it’s Time To Treat it That Way
LGBTQ Communities and Sex Work
Thanks for supporting the arts by Viva Las Vegas Liv Osthus,TedXPortland
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*TRIGGER WARNING (suicide, suicidal ideation, death, grief, Alzheimer's, chronic mental illness, addiction)
This episode is holds a lot of sensitive information. Please skip this episode if you are struggling in any way, especially with your mental health or are grieving. If you choose to listen be sure you are supported and have a plan for who to call if you feel vulnerable or alone. Thank you.
Adrienne Jones joins Steph and Heather for one of their deepest dives yet. Striving to hold Adrienne's heart and words in a safe place, Heather and Steph dive into the tragedies Adrienne has experienced, including the loss of her mother to Alzheimer's disease and her husband to debilitation life-stealing deep depression, after years of being his primary caregiver. Adrienne writes profoundly and exquisitely about her life as she is experiencing it, and links to where to find her can be seen below. Thank you for holding space for Adrienne, and for showing up to learn and grow. Peace to each of you. We love you.
Adrienne Elizabeth Jones lives in Albuquerque, New Mexico. She believes in the difference between 'truth' and 'fact', the healing capacity of canine friends, and the life-changing power of story. Her writing has appeared in Brain, Child Magazine, The Mennonite, Jezebel, and elsewhere. Find her at nopointsforstyle.com or on most social media platforms as @nopoints4style.
Adrienne's blog, No Points for Style
Adrienne on Insta
Adrienne on Facebook
Writing Threads on Facebook
Writing Threads on Insta
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Come along as Heather and Steph record separately to each other. Steph asks Heather questions about alcoholism and both Heather and Steph talk about a new perspective, "rest as resistance", inspired by the We Can Do Hard Things episode with Tricia Hersey. Steph shares more about burnout as a single mother and how to stay positive when you are too exhausted to imagine things getting easier, smoother, or better. Then stick around for an AMAZING list of shows, podcasts and good books! Thank you for being here!
Still True by Maggie Ginsberg
Whiskey When We’re Dry by John Larison
The Patient on Hulu
We can do hard things Episode 139 – October 13, 2022 “No More Grind: How to Finally Rest with Tricia Hersey”
Rest is Resistance, a manifesto by Tricia Hersey
Anxious Achiever podcast with Jill Smokler “Scary Mommy’s Founder on When Life Throws Curveballs”
Jill Smokler’s podcast “She’s got Issues” episode 4 Friend Breakups- Accepting when a friendship is over
The Bling Ring: Hollywood Heist on Netflix
Ep 106 of True Story with Tig & Cheryl: The Real Bling Ring Hollywood Heist
All Good People Here by Ashley Flowers
Cheers to Leaving! Ep 46: Hot Takes
DAHMER: Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story
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This episode is a conversation with the talented award-winning writer, Maggie Ginsberg. Heather and Maggie have known each other for years, and happen to share a sobriety date because of a blog post Heather wrote in the wee hours when she decided to quit drinking. Listen as Maggie and Heather share the details of how that came to be and how Maggie and Heather have now been sober together for almost thirteen years. The story of alcoholism is told in Maggie's new gripping and powerful novel, Still True, so of course Maggie and Heather dive deeper into the burdens the characters carry, their secrets, and much more; like when is it time to NOT share the truth? And when is it time to come clean? Where are the boundaries? And lastly, Maggie and Heather discuss what they're NOT watching, and why, AND Maggie recommends two of her favorite authors and their books. Get those. But first, go RIGHT NOW and get Still True. It will stay with you. It will make you think. It will make you believe the characters are real, living in Wisconsin, and maybe you'll get to go see them one day. That's good writing. Thank you, Maggie.
Maggie Ginsberg is a senior editor at Madison Magazine and a longtime award-winning contributor to city, regional and national magazines. She lives in Wisconsin with her family. Still True is her first novel.
Some old school bloggers from back in the day may know her as Maggie, dammit, from the blog Okay, fine, dammit, and as the founder of Violence UnSilenced, which was an online community and platform for survivors of sexual and intimate partner violence to speak out. You can find Maggie on FacebookInstagramGoodreads
***Mentioned in this Episode:
Dahmer (no thank you) on Netflix**Luis Alberto Urrea*Nicklaus Butler - Shotgun LovesongsSusan Henderson - The Flicker of Old DreamsBreaking Bad
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Heather records alone and asks Steph some questions, one light and silly, and one more serious and deep (of course). Steph responds and shares more of her story and Heather tells a little more about hers as well. This episode was inspired by our friend and listener, Riley. Come along!
Mentioned in this episode:
Nick Kroll on Netflix
Rebecca Woolf's book All Of This
Maggie Ginsberg's book Still True
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In this episode, Steph and Heather welcome lifelong writer, blogger, and author Rebecca Woolf, to talk about her new memoir on death and desire, All of This. This conversation dives deep into what it means to be a person that expresses the whole truth about the human experience in writing, for the world to see. Heather, Steph, and Rebecca talk about normalizing telling the whole truth, how healing it is, and how it helps others. They also talk about writing in the midst of chaos as an accepted "practice" for getting your words on the page, and then they continue to talk about grief, motherhood, and being unapologetically unashamed. Don't miss this one! About the book: “Beautifully written, complex, provocative, painful, genuine...an unforgettable memoir.”—ROXANE GAY “Wonderfully lyrical and uncomfortably honest in a way that is so rare, yet so needed.”—JENNY LAWSON “Disturbing and profound, this intimate book also reveals the sometimes-labyrinthine nature of the bonds that unite people in love...A provocative and memorable work.”—Kirkus Reviews About Rebecca: As well as launching her own successful blog, Woolf has contributed dozens of personal essays to publications both on and offline including Refinery29, Huffington Post, Parenting, and Romper and in 2012 hosted Childstyle, a web series on HGTV.com. She has appeared on CNN and NPR and has been featured in The New York Times, Time Magazine and New York Mag. In 2008, Woolf authored her first memoir, Rockabye: From Wild to Child (Seal Press) and was one of three bloggers (STRAIGHT FROM THE BOTTLE with Rebecca Woolf) to launch parenting destination, Babble.com later acquired by Disney. Woolf also authored a weekly (feminist!) parenting column on Mom.me called I hear ya, sister and was responsible for designing multiple award-winning branding campaigns including Maddie Ziegler’s “Wear What Moves You” ad-campaign as a copywriter. Woolf also served as a panelist on the hit web series, Momversation, has consulted for major corporations, including Disney, and has contributed essays to anthologies including The Moment: Wild, Poignant, Life-Changing Stories from 125 Writers and Artists Famous & Obscure (Harper Perennial, 2012) and Crush: 26 Real-life Tales of First Love (Mira, 2011) edited by Andrea N. Richesin. Woolf’s first short film WARPAINT FOR THE TEENAGE SOUL made its theatrical debut at the Bend Film Festival (2019) and is currently in development as a feature film (PANS). Woolf’s second book, ALL OF THIS (Harper One) hits shelves May 2022. She lives in Los Angeles with her son and three daughters. Mentioned in this episode:
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Jen Kanable lives in Chicago and Steph’s on the west coast, but they’ve remained BFFs since 1982! After high school Jen went to college and started her career when Steph took the marriage/motherhood route. Listen in to their conversation about what happened then, how life is now, and everything in between.
When’s the last time you had a one on one with your childhood bestie?
Mentioned in this episode:
The Way Back Machine
Jeannette McCurdy I’m Glad My Mom Died
The Dark Side of the 90’s on Hulu
Acid for the Children on Audible by Flea
Lolo Webb on Instagram
House of Hammer
DAHMER: Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story
Abbott Elementary
True Crime Obsessed Podcast
The Rachel Maddow Show podcast
Girls Next Level podcast
The Prosecutors Podcast
Family Secrets podcast
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Due to not being able to line up a time to be together to record, Steph brilliantly comes up with the idea to record separately, like sending off little letters to each other. Both Heather and Steph share pieces of writing, thoughts about the week, and of course, what they're listening to, watching, and/or reading.
Mentioned in this show:
Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley
The Patient on Hulu
Steph's Writing
Heather's Writing
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Heather and Steph talk about having older kids now, and launching them; what they may regret and how to let go and be less hard on themselves. They aren't experts, but love to talk openly and honestly about how all of this feels. Also, for real...how is Steph's house so peaceful? (She answers this and Heather continues to be in awe.) And of course, stay tuned for an update on what Steph and Heather are reading, watching, and listening to.
Mentioned in this show:
Ann Imig - For Us, Folks With A Kid About To Launch
Molly Shannon's book, Hello, Molly!
White Magic
Depresh Mode with Jamie Lee Curtis, Episode 71
Tig and Cheryl
Crime Beat
Simply Vanished podcast
A Mother's Day Message from Anna Quindlen
Quotes from the show:
"I'm grieving how it could have been if I had let go earlier." - Heather
"There's no finish line, because your love is never going to stop." - Steph
"If you let go, you will get closer." - Steph
"Perfection simply cannot be the family standard, so every time we get it wrong, we let our kids off the hook a little." - Ann Imig
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Heather and Steph discuss the classic "Five Love Languages" and last week's podcast episode of We Can Do Hard Things titled, "WHY ARE THERE NO PICTURES OF US?" Heather and Steph love We Can Do Hard Things, but didn't really love that episode, and in today's episode they discuss why. This brings up communication being key to so many of the questions we ponder about relationships, and then communication comes up during several other topics, including parenting kids with ADD/ADHD and how to get them on board with contributing around the house. Steph is brilliant.
Mentioned in this episode:
We Can Do Hard Things
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Pamela Dayton is back to talk spirituality, religion, faith and more with Steph! Pamela has a Master's of Divinity. She's a Christian. She's also an unashamed liberal, if we have to use such labels. Listen and Pamela and Steph share how they really feel, what they struggle with, and what they believe love really is.
Pamela earned a Master of Arts in Social Justice and Theology in 2015, and a Master of Divinity in 2019. Pamela and three friends founded Free Hugs ROC, based on the Free Mom Hugs groups popping up around the country. In 2020 she served as a member of the Emotional Support Team that accompanied the racial justice protests in Rochester, New York, that began after Daniel Prude was murdered by the Rochester Police Department. Pamela lives in Rochester, New York, with her family.
Mentioned in this episode:
Pamela Dayton on Instagram
Nadia Bolz-Weber
Allah: A Christian Response by Mirislav Volf
Albert Fish: In Sin He Found Salvation
Righteous Gemstones
Kevin Can F**ck Himself
Schitt$ Creek
Pedagoy of the Oppressed by Paolo Freire
All of This by Rebecca Woolf
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Should it be said? Should it be said by me? Should it be said now? When trying to decide if we should respond to some Internet drama this week, we decided the answers to those questions is yes. Most of the time the answers are no, no, and no. Not much needs to be said about any kind of drama. But this particular situation hits close to home and puts people in harm's way. With Stephanie's personal experience as a mother of a transgender teen, it was time for us to speak up against harmful misinformation and to talk about how devastating it can be when people with large followings make statements against entire marginalized groups while also throwing several other fragile and vulnerable groups under the bus. It was an easy answer for us. We need to speak up, no matter how small our audience. Using our voices and platforms to teach and listen and grow is our goal. So this episode is our response to a blog post by a writing mother we once viewed as a supportive of all people. Please bear witness to this conversation with an open heart, and join us in keeping transgender kids alive.
Mentioned in this episode:
A League of Their Own on Prime
Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley
Cat Person by Kristen Roupenian
Bodies Bodies Bodies
Only Murders in the Building
Janelle Hanchett Renegade Mothering
All of This by Rebecca Woolf
Thoughtfully by Steph
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Our guest Pamela Dayton and co-host Stephanie both have transgender kids, and in this episode they speak openly about their experience, knowledge, and love for their kids exactly as they are. Come along and learn how to love better, more fully, and with more grace. If you haven't had the opportunity to know a transgender person and feel you know very little about what "transgender" even means, this is an amazing opportunity to come to a place of better understanding. When we know more, we do better. (This episode also includes conversation about doing divorce as well as possible and why we don't have to call our marriages "failed" if we're divorced.) Thank you for being here.
Pamela Dayton has had a decade of transformational experiences. And that is not to say that the first 30-something years of her life were lacking, but the past 10 really showed out. In 2013, Pamela traveled to Beirut, Lebanon, to work alongside Lebanese NGO “Heart for Lebanon.” She was part of a medical clinic team that visited Syrian refugee camps, and her role was to make portraits of refugees and document life in refugee camps. This trip ignited an awareness and passion for social justice.
Since that time, Pamela earned a Master of Arts in Social Justice and Theology in 2015, and a Master of Divinity in 2019. Pamela and three friends founded Free Hugs ROC, based on the Free Mom Hugs groups popping up around the country. In 2020 she served as a member of the Emotional Support Team that accompanied the racial justice protests in Rochester, New York, that began after Daniel Prude was murdered by the Rochester Police Department.
Currently Pamela is completing a one-year chaplain residency at the University of Rochester Medical center, and is looking for some sort of gainful employment. She is also working on a series of personal essays; when she is not typing, her fingers are crossed that they will evolve into book form and be published.
Pamela gave birth to four babies: Oliver, Jack, Henry, and Elliott, who are now the most amazing teenagers on the planet. She and their dad also picked up a bonus kid during the pandemic, and he fits their family perfectly. Pamela lives in Rochester with her partner, Scott, and their four cats. For fun, she knits, converses with her houseplants, and paints pictures of photos her friends post on social media. Pamela loves coffee, cheese, and naps.
You can find Pamela at: www.pamelabdayton.com
Mentioned in this show (and helpful resources):
The Trevor Project 2022 National Survey on LGBTQ Youth Mental Health
Guide to Being an Ally to Transgender and Nonbinary Youth
https://www.instagram.com/pameladayton
The Transgender Teenby Stephanie Brill and Rachel Pepper
The Transgender Child by Stephanie Brill and Rachel Pepper
They/Them movie on Peacock
The House of the Spirits by Isabel Allende
Simply Vanished
transgenderyouth
teamkeeptranskidsalive
transparenting
transkids
divorce
religion
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Author Deb Rogers talks to Steph and Heather about her new book Florida Woman, the writing and publishing process and creativity in midlife and beyond. Heather and Steph have known Deb since the start of the good ol' blogging days and find her to be one of the smartest, funniest, and gentle souls on all the planets. Her book leaves the reader begging to find out what is happening under the surface at this strange animal sanctuary where the main character goes to work, instead of doing jail time. THE SUSPENSE. And then the twists? Go read Florida Woman!
As a freelancer and consultant, Deb Rogers has worked on a number of popular communications projects including serving as Pop Culture editor of BlogHer and on the national expansion team for the Listen to Your Mother Show. This summer Hanover Square Press published her first novel, FLORIDA WOMAN, which has been called a "bewitching debut" by Publishers Weekly and was a Fantastic Strangelings Book Club selection. Follow her at @debontherocks
Mentioned in this episode:
The Net Beneath Us by Carol Dunbar
Jenny Lawson The Bloggess
In Her Boots KJ del Antonia
White Magic by Elissa Washuta
The Bear on Hulu
Florida Woman by Deb Rogers
The Resort on Peacock
“How to Love Your Body Now” We Can Do Hard Things episode 117
Joe Exotic
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Come along as Heather acts like a giddy child (and then ends up crying) simply because she's in the presence of someone who knew her when she was a literal giddy, giggling child. Riley Worth is one of Heather's oldest friends. He's also the most curious and engaging conversationalist Heather knows. Riley is a former journalist, a current teacher, a writer, and a very good friend. He's funny and kind and sometimes ridiculous, which makes him even better. Topics include but are not limited to: Riley admitting he used to read Young Miss Magazine, his thoughts on the Big Burly Dude and soul mates, why he lives in Saudi Arabia, aging, listening to women, and so much more. Don't miss it! See the show notes below for all the podcasts and people mentioned in this episode. P.S. Please forgive Heather for saying Anatomy of the Heart rather than Atlas of the Heart (Brene Brown) (Link below)
Mentioned in the show:
We Can Do Hard Things
Armchair Expert
Wine and Crime
Patty Wetterling
Joy Baker
Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan
Brene Brown's Podcast
Atlas of the Heart with Brene Brown on HBO
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Do you feel like the term "self care" is just another way of saying, "you need to do more"? Well then, this episode is for you. Come along as Steph and Heather discuss what it feels like to hear you need to take better care of yourself when you're already drowning, when you can't think straight, let alone decide to do something to take care of yourself. Heather asked friends on Facebook to answer the question, "What are some obstacles to self care for you?" and many of the raw and honest responses are shared in this episode. And stay tuned for what Steph and Heather are reading and watching that they love. Thank you for being here!
Mentioned in this episode:
White Magic by Elissa Washuta
Run Toward the Danger by Sarah Polley
The Bear on Hulu
The Kingdom of Us on Netflix
Florida Woman by Deb Rogers
Nope, the movie
Shameless on Netflix
God’s Favorite Idiot on Netflix
The Good Place
Ann Imig
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Heather's eleven year old daughter, Elsie, joins in for a fun conversation with her mom and Steph, mostly about animals. This is a short one; light-hearted and happy. Just what we all need at the moment. (Don't miss the podcast closing in which Elsie HANDLES IT all on her own.) Disclaimer: At one point Elsie says that our guinea pig Vanny is a "rascal" but it sounds exactly like she says a**hole, which is hilarious.
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This beautiful conversation with death scholar and advocate for death education, Taya Dunn Johnson, can't be missed. We are all affected by the depths of grief in our lifetimes. Come along as Taya walks us through why we feel the way we do, what can help, and much more.
Taya Dunn Johnson is an author, autism advocate, producer and director. In 2012, Taya was widowed with a small child at age 35 when her husband died, then 2 years later she lost her father. Taya has become a death scholar and advocate for death education. Her new podcast I Can’t Imagine: Conversations on Death, Grief, and Trauma just launched and she will be having conversations about generational trauma, mental illness, and non-death losses are important, too, and Taya will be talking openly about all of those things.
Quotes from this episode:
On death due to addiction: "You are heartbroken and hurt so much more because you couldn't save him. No one can save someone else." - Taya Dunn Johnson
"The depth of pain relates back to the efforts to save, and that's part of the problem." - Taya Dunn Johnson
"Guilt serves no one. You have to unravel it." - Taya Dunn Johnson
"The pain associated (with grief) is directly proportionate to the amount of love for that person." - Taya Dunn Johnson
"Grief comes in many different forms, and it looks different on every person." - Taya Dunn Johnson
Mentioned in this episode:
We Can Do Hard Things (Episode on Grief)
Simone Biles
Grief Talk Book
Where to find Taya Dunn Johnson:
Podcast: I Can’t Imagine: Conversations on Death, Grief, and Trauma
- Listen To Your Mother 2013 DC show, Taya Dunn Johnson reading Peanut Butter and Jelly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK9usc-NJ7A
- Taya’s website
- Taya’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/TayaDunnJohnson/
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In this 16th episode of Writing Threads, Heather and Steph process grief. After the recent loss of a loved one, Heather shares some of what happened and how it feels. Taya Dunn Johnson was scheduled to be the Writing Threads special guest, but because of technical difficulties, Taya will be on the next episode, talking more about grief and trauma. Her guest spot was scheduled long before Heather and her family's recent loss. What a gift it will be to have Taya respond to today's episode about grief, alcoholism, and letting go. Stay tuned for that one next time.
grief #addiction #alcoholism #trauma
Darrin Daniel Ogdahl Obituary
Tender by Heather King
Alcoholics Anonymous
Taya Dunn Johnson: New podcast just launched: I Can’t Imagine: Conversations on Death, Grief, and Trauma
Contact us at writingthreadspodcast@gmail.com or any of these other options:
Steph on Instagram: @babysteph
Writing Threads on Instagram: @writingthreadspodcast
Heather on Instagram: @heather_westberg_king
Writing Threads on Facebook
Heather on Facebook
Steph on Facebook
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Laugh with us as Steph tells her stories about keeping people in line at the movie theater. Super random and hilarious.
Then listen as we discuss getting depleted, finding our reserves and what helps, Father's Day, and what we've been reading and watching that's GOOD. Also: finger-waving, Bottle Caps, Peeps, grief, Brandi Carlile's superpowers and more.
Mentioned in this episode:
Phish
Top Gun
Brandi Carlile The Gorge
Lucius
Sarah MacLachlan
Celisse
Nirasha Kumar
Grace & Frankie
Pete Davidson in Netfilx is a Joke with Neko White
Story People Brian Andreas
"You have to do something about it. You can't just wait for it to happen." - Steph
"The wave after wave after wave is not going to stop." - Steph
"A lot of times my kids are what inspires me to change my mindset." - Steph
"By being models of self-denial we hurt our children and ourselves." - Maria Porter Seasons of the Spirit (Meditations for people in Midlife)
"Grief breeds, it is a living thing."
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In this episode, Steph shares what she's learning about herself and her background after watching a cult documentary. This brings up some pain, more questions, and a great conversation. Join us as we continue to explore what it means to follow the threads through our lives and tell our stories.
Mentioned in this episode:
The Deep End on Hulu
Teal Swan
Humans of New York
Richard Rohr, Falling Upward
Radio Rental - podcast
Upcoming guests:
Taya Dunn Johnson - new podcast, I Can't Imagine: Conversations on Death, Grief, and Trauma
Deb Rogers - New book, Florida Woman
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Heather and Steph spend a little time catching up on all things reading and streaming, Heather's trip to South Carolina to celebrate her daughter, and an update on her daughter's battle with Lyme disease. Once again, come along for the real talk and honesty.
Mentioned in this episode:
The Language of Dying by Sarah Pinborough
Goldenrod by Maggie Smith
We Inherit What The Fires Left by William Evans
The Deep End on Hulu
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Heather and Steph talk to the Listen To Your Mother founder and Listen Life Coaching life coach, Ann Imig. Her wise words are a balm while the conversation turns to being ourselves, accepting ourselves and still growing while the world spins with awful things like Uvalde. Ann talks about "acting as if" (you are doing the thing you know you need to do but can't seem to do) until it creates action, and if it doesn't...great news: it will still be good for your well-being and for your work in the world. Topics include but are not limited to: beating ourselves up, the Velveeten Rabbit (complete with a theater fire story in which Steph IS the Velveteen Rabbit), common sense gun regulations--Moms Demand Action, forgiving ourselves, using our voices, and more! (Stay tuned for a bonus clip that was cut from the episode but we couldn't resist sharing. It's filled with laughter. We all need that now.)
Mentioned in this episode:
We Can Do Hard Things Episode 99
Moms Demand Action/Every Town for Gun Safety
Amy Turn Sharp
Shirzad Chamine bestselling author of Positive Intelligence
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Trigger Warning: #suicide #mentalillness #rape #sexualassault #suicidalideation #suicidalthinking
In this episode, Heather and Steph talk with their friend Casey Coombs about her decision to abandon shame and stigma in exchange for treatment and telling the whole truth. Casey leaves on Tuesday, and she recorded with us on Saturday afternoon. This is her second treatment, or "sad camp" as she calls it, and her courage and candor is a balm for those who struggle with their own mental health and and/or addiction, or know someone who does.
majordepression #generalizedanxietydisorder #addiction #BPD #CognitiveBehavioralTherapy #DialecticalBehaviorTherapy #alcoholism #shame #resilience #higherpower #recovery #stigma
Quotes from this episode:
“If this is part of my story, I’m going to be all in on it.” - Casey Coombs
"I did what felt good, or made me not feel what I didn't want to feel." - Casey Coombs
"I ended up exactly where I needed to be." - Casey Coombs
"Take any kind of mental health diagnosis and any kind of addictive personality and it's fuel on a fire." - Casey Coombs
"It's very important for me to say that addiction is not just pills, needles, alcohol..." - Casey Coombs
"I felt like I had been filled up on enough skills and coping to survive, and I just ran out of it. I ran out of it. I'm out of it. It was being depleted faster than I could restore it." - Casey Coombs
"There are so many sown out there that feel like this, and think this is just how you're meant to feel, and it isn't." - Casey Coombs
"I think we all know the feeling when we are absolutely running on fumes. If you stand still it just absolutely washes over you how tired you are." -Casey Coombs
"There's a reason they use the word surrender in recovery programs. It's because you do. Because I can't do this anymore. And I need help." - Casey Coombs
Mentioned in this episode:
Hold Me Tight Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love by Dr. Sue Johnson EdDDr
Codependent No More by Melody Beattie
Resources for Mental Illness and Addiction (DRUG AND ALCOHOL AND SEX AND LOVE ADDICTION):
Alcoholics Anonymous
Al-Anon groups
SLAA groups
NAMI - National Alliance on Mental Illness
NA
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
Suicide Prevention Lifeline
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In this episode, Heather tells Steph (and you) about the day's beautiful and hard truth-telling with her daughter. But before that, Steph and Heather discuss what it feels like to be a grown-up that doesn't feel "successful" in many ways. This is an episode about our hearts and minds, our pure and true struggle, and the ways we come through to the other side. Thank you for being here with us, friends.
divorce #childrenofdivorce #truth #coparenting #parenting #motherhood #wcdht #lizgilbert #debrogers #floridawoman #betterthings #dateline #thestaircase #underthebannerofheaven #fundamentalism #maliburising #chanelmiller
Mentioned in this show:
We Can Do Hard Things with Chanel Miller We Are Never Stuck
We Can Do Hard Things with Liz Gilbert Liz Gilbert Shares The Whole Story For the First Time
Florida Woman by Deb Rogers (PRE ORDER THIS BOOK!) :)
The Undoing (dateline podcast episode) “from there Matt folded faster than the overnight crew at the Gap.” LOLOL best line ever
Malibu Rising by Taylor Jenkins Reid
What we've been watching:
The Staircase
Better Things
Ozark
Grace and Frankie
Our Father
Under the Banner of Heaven
Candy
Quotes from the show:
On messages of self-care: "It's like telling someone to take deep breaths when they're having a panic attack." - Heather
"Everything I thought about growing up and being an adult meant nothing." - Steph
"We're hard on ourselves until we're not." - Heather
"It's why it's so important to me for my passion to not be my work." - Steph
"No matter how ugly the truth is, it's the truth. And you can't really heal or move forward until you put that somewhere." - Heather
On parenting: "I think you just follow their lead. They tell you, if you're listening." - Steph
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This week Heather and Steph talk about self-care, but not self-care. What do we do when the world is constantly crashing in on us with all of its demands? Well, first of all, we can't stand the term "self-care" because HOW? Maybe self-care is really just self-love, without so much over-thinking. Maybe self-love is harder for some of us because of what we were taught when we were small. Maybe we don't have the answers, but we always have honesty. Join us as we discover what "spiritual fitness" is and what it means when we think of self-love.
Our latest writings:
Steph’s Time to Say It on SoVeryFlaude
Heather’s Adding Alzheimers to Injury on Medium
Mentioned in this episode:
Unlocking Us with Richard Rohr - Brene Brown
Normandy American Cemetery
Luvvie Ajayi Jones Rising Troublemaker
Captive Audience: A Real American Horror Story on Hulu
Jen Mann Midlife Bites
Father Richard Rohr's website, Center for Action and Contemplation
You can find Writing Threads on our Facebook page and our Facebook group. We are also on Instagram. You can find Steph on Facebook and Instagram and on her blog. You can find Heather on Facebook and Instagram and on Medium.
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Heather and Steph share the ways trauma, hardship, struggle and illness have played a part in their motherhood journeys. Heather opens up about coming to terms with her daughter's latest diagnosis and what it means for the future. Both Heather and Steph share what they've been listening to (books and podcasts) and learning from, and of course, share what they've been watching, just for fun. Join them for a ride through real life, with honest conversation about hard things sprinkled with grace dust.
Mentioned in this episode:
Better Things (again!)
What Fresh Hell podcast with guest Mary Laura Philpott
Bomb Shelter by Mary Laura Philpott
Hello Molly! By Molly Shannon
Fresh Air NPR podcast episode with Molly Shannon
Hannah Gadsby 10 Steps to Nanette
Kate Bowler No Cure For Being Human
Be Like Water by Stephanie Wilson
Bad Vegan
Tinder Swindler
Tig and Cheryl (about Bad Vegan)
Inside Out, the movie
addition #trauma #lymedisease #chronicillness #motherhood #betterthings #embracingstruggle #phoneaddiction #epilepsy #seizuredisorder
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Heather and Steph about the ways every divorce is as different than every marriage, and every single mother's story is unique. Heather shares more about the end of her marriage, what she would do differently, and how it's going now with co-parenting. It's whole lot of facing the truth and keeping it real (and sometimes silly).
SHOW NOTES:
Writing Threads Podcast Facebook Page
Better Things on FX
- Pop Culture Happy Hour featuring Better Things
- Sea of Tranquility by Emily St John Mandel
- Station Eleven on HBO Max
- Anne Lamott
- Steph’s quote that will not die
- The Mother Letters
- Single Mom Nation/Jessica Ashley Divorce Coach For Moms
- Lisa Page Rosenberg
- "Messy" poem by Amy Turn Sharp
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Heather and Steph talk about motherhood, things that work and don't work with teens, with their usual candid and honest flair. On everything from Mario Kart and Monster drinks, to big failures and coming back from them. Steph shares more about being a mother to a transgender child/teen and what happened on the night she was told her daughter's truth.
"I think it's time to lower my pain tolerance." - Stephanie Wilson
"Maybe this week feeling hard is a result of my being more mindful of that...of lowering my pain tolerance." - Stephanie
"As a mom, I'm an over-seer of your life." - Stephanie to Luna
"The most important thing you can do when you're being human and making mistakes is to talk to someone about it. It's not really even about whether or not you did the thing, it's about whether or not you have held it inside, because that doesn't turn out so great." - Heather Westberg King
"If you want them to keep coming to you and you want them to keep the communication open and you want to be aware of what they're actually doing, you can't freak out." - Stephanie
"I want them to know my door is open and they can enter it and leave freely...without fear." - Steph
"I need to give them me, and not a version of me that I think I should be." - Steph
"The more I'm open and the more honest and vulnerable, the more open and honest they are with me." - Steph
"I am becoming all the time, I often change my mind about big and small things, about things I think and things I want to do. That used to really bother me, that I'm showing my kids I'm not even really sure of who I am or what I want to do and I'm just showing my kids how to flounder, or something. But now I'm like, no, I'm showing them how to live. This is how life is and we don't ever stop evolving and changing and growing." - Heather
Steph shared a piece of writing from Kate Baer -
“It’s never done. If I had a chance now with every book I wrote, every page would be a little different. Commas would be moved, words. And I think that’s beautiful, actually. That’s a good thing. It reminds us that the artist and the mind and the poem still grow. The poem is like a tree, and the book is a photograph of the tree. You take a photograph of the tree, but the next day, the tree has new cells. The next year, it has new branches. We have to make peace with the fact that a book is actually just a photo album, and that the organic psychic life of the poem is already growing somewhere else, somewhere inside you. And we pin it down."
divorce #motherhood #parentingtranskids #katebaer #depression #anxiety
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Heather and Steph share what resonated with each of them this past week and why. They cover the world of podcasts, movies, books, and more. Listen as Heather and Steph discuss their favorites, and then uncover that most everything they're sharing has some common threads, like deep human connection and how it happens, even with someone who has Alzheimer's (Heather's mom). Thank you for listening!
Mentioned in this episode:
Melisa Wells writing at MelisaWells.com with a quote from grief author Shelby Forsythia
Academy Award winning movie, CODA
Heather's piece on Medium, Going Home
We Can Do Hard Things with Hannah Gadsby
Hannah Gadsby's Netflix specials Nanette and Douglas
(Steph asked if Douglas is both a Netflix special and a book. In researching, we could not find a Douglas book)
We Can Do Hard Things with Brene Brown (Atlas of the Heart)
Psychologist Dr. Susan David
Crying in H Mart by Michelle Zauner of Japanese Breakfast
Hannah Gadsby's book Ten Steps to Nanette
Somebody's Daughter by Ashley C. Ford
Ashley C Ford's interview with Clint Smith is at the end of Somebody's Daughter on Audible
Jared Carmichael comedy special on HBO Max
Dana at The Kitchen Witch
Meagan Francis on Facebook
Heather's ol' blog post, Maybe Not Now and Possibly Never
Alzheimers #CODA #Grief #writing #alcoholism #addiction #neurodiversity #parentingtransgenderkids #transgender #comingout #divorce #truthtelling
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This week we're making it a little lighter around here. It's Heather's turn to talk as Steph asks some fun questions like "What did you want to be when you grew up?" and "Who were you in high school?" Both Heather & Steph share a church mini skirt story. And so much more!
Shout outs to Jenny and Kelly this week. You know who you are.
Mentioned in this episode:
Meagan Francis, our friend from all the blogging years. Meagan Francis is a published author, content marketer, and podcast personality. She lives in Southwest Michigan with her five kids (ages 9-20). After a decade of magazine writing and professional blogging, Meagan created the Life, Listened podcast network in 2015 to bring together shows and hosts around the theme of living a life you love. Find out more about Meagan’s work at her website meaganfrancis.com or follow her personal moments on Twitter and Instagram. Meagan is a well-known podcaster at The Mom Hour.
Flyleaf Book Shops, Heather's bookstores in rural Minnesota.
We Can Do Hard Things (the podcast)
The other Heather King - A Heather King we don't know, with the same name as our Heather Westberg King (hence Heather using her maiden name to decipher the difference between the two, both in recovery and both writers.
Your hosts:
Stephanie Wilson, now blogging at soveryflaude.blogspot.com and on Instagram (@babysteph), Twitter (@babysteph) and Facebook, Stephanie Wilson.
Heather Westberg King, now writing on Medium as HeatherJKing. And on Instagram (@heather_westberg_king) and on Facebook as Heather Westberg King.
Find Writing Threads! Visit our Facebook page, find us on Instagram (@writingthreadspodcast) and join or private Facebook group, A Procrastination of Writers (and those that love them). Email us at writingthreadspodcast (at) gmail (dot) com.
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In this episode, Steph shares more about her history with fundamentalism and how it shaped her. Both Steph and Heather admit that talking about their experiences within religion brings up a lot of fear and anxiety to this day, but they are telling their stories anyway. Steph's bravery and honesty in this episode is central to the "why" of doing this podcast. These are the threads. These are the true stories that make us, sewn into the fabric of our souls. Please join us with open hearts. Bear witness to the pain of staying stuck, and the freedom of letting go. We are pulling at some threads here, unraveling, and it is good.
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Heather and Stephanie sit down with long-time friend Ann Imig, the creator of Listen To Your Mother, the national show and book. Ann is also the owner of Listen Life Coaching, and in this episode she walks us all through a short beautiful guided meditation that then triggers a flurry of GUESS WHATS from Heather and Steph. This deep dive conversation covers how the Listen To Your Mother Show prepared Steph for learning that her child is trans. We also get to hear what being Jewish means to Ann, what stories mean to Ann, and what she's learned from opening her heart to every person's story. What are her strengths? What's this Listen Life Coaching thing all about? Come along as three old writer friends laugh, talk smart-ish, and sometimes choke back tears. It's a ride! Join us... For more about the content of the show, see the below links mentioned in the episode.
Cupcake '10 Listen To Your Mother National Team: Taya Dunn Johnson Ann Imig Deb Rogers Melisa Wells Stephanie Wilson Breathe by Becky Hemsley VIA Character test We Can Do Hard Things podcast Listen To Your Mother videos featuring Transgender stories ALOK and be sure to follow them on instagram Jennifer Rosen Heinz, Use Your Outside Voice Anna Whiston Donaldson, Rare Bird Karen Maezen Miller
Resources for affirming families & parenting transgender kids: HRC.org Camp Wild Heart Steph's blog, instagram Heather's blog, instagram
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The first episode of Writing Threads with Stephanie Wilson and Heather Westberg King is a candid conversation covering old misguided beliefs, what they've been through, and what it's like now. Stephanie and Heather share what this podcast hopes to be and why it took shape and became real. This honest conversation covers marriage and divorce, the old days when blogging and being recognized for it was central to their lives, motherhood, alcoholism, identity, their current struggle, being free and yes also suffocating, and more.
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