Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel

Join Audrey as she reveals strategies to write effective firefighting resumes.

For coaching and advisement to help you achieve your career transition or corporate training goals, email Audrey directly audrey.prenzel@gmail.com.

To order PDF copy of “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You will receive the link to download it.

Follow Audrey on Instagram: @AudreyPrenzel

Join Mil2Civ (Canadian) Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/mil2civ.job.insight/

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Learn media relations strategies. For coaching and advisement to help you achieve your career transition or corporate training goals, email Audrey directly audrey.prenzel@gmail.com.•To order PDF copy of “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You will receive the link to download it.•Follow Audrey on Instagram: @AudreyPrenzel•Follow Audrey on Twitter: @AudreyPrenzel•Join Mil2Civ (Canadian) Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/mil2civ.job.insight/

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Hear first-hand how Audrey has developed 100s and 100s of police application resumes that get interviews.

For 1:1 coaching and advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals, email Audrey audrey.prenzel@gmail.com.

To order PDF copy of “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You will receive the link to download it.
Follow Audrey on Instagram: @AudreyPrenzel
Follow Audrey on Twitter: @AudreyPrenzel
Join Mil2Civ (Canadian) Facebook Group:

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Learn why personal branding is important and how career expert Tina (Kashlak) Nicolai develops personal branding for her clients.Contact Tina, founder of Resume Writer’s Ink, LLC

Follow Tina on Twitter: @TinaNicolai

Follow Tina on Instagram: @resumewritersink

Tina’s website: http://www.resumewritersink.com

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/resumewritersink

For 1:1 coaching and advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals, email Audrey audrey.prenzel@gmail.com.

To order PDF copy of “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You will receive the link to download it.
Follow Audrey on Instagram: @AudreyPrenzel
Follow Audrey on Twitter: @AudreyPrenzel
Join Mil2Civ (Canadian) Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/mil2civ.job.insight/

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Selecting professional references is something most people leaving the military don’t put much thought into. They assume they simply must put their direct supervisor within their Chain of Command. No, you don’t have to, and in many cases, this is not a good idea. Audrey walks you through the ins and outs of selecting professional references when you're leaving the military in this episode of Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel. Order

Order PDF Book “Military to Civvie Street” by e-transfering $20 CAD to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com to receive download link. Send 1:1 coaching requests to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. Follow on Instagram & Twitter @audreyprenzel

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Many people take the assessment but don’t know what do do with the results. Elaine issues and interprets the STRONG Interest Inventory to help you make the right career move.

Contact Elaine:

elaine@allycareersolutions.com

www.allycareersolutions.com

https://www.facebook.com/AllyCareer

Order PDF Book “Military to Civvie Street” by e-transfering $20 CAD to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com to receive download link. Send 1:1 coaching requests to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com

Follow on Instagram & Twitter @audreyprenzel

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Join Audrey Prenzel as she chats with Tina Kashlak Nicolai, Orlando-based and globally acknowledged recruiter, career coach, resume writer, and brand strategist extraordinaire. Recruiting for 35+ years, Tina has personally reviewed over 50,000 resumes for Walt Disney World, Adidas, Eddie Bauer, PacSun, HelloFresh, and more.

Contact Tina, founder of Resume Writer’s Ink, LLC

Tina’s website: http://www.resumewritersink.com

Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/resumewritersink

Follow Tina on Twitter: @TinaNicolai

Follow Tina on Instagram: @resumewritersink

For 1:1 coaching and advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals, email Audrey directly audrey.prenzel@gmail.com.

To order PDF copy of “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You will receive the link to download it.
Follow Audrey on Instagram: @AudreyPrenzel
Follow Audrey on Twitter: @AudreyPrenzel
Join Mil2Civ (Canadian) Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/mil2civ.job.insight/

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Is this you?

Feel miserable going to work on Monday.
Zero energy at work.
Too stiff & sore to do anything at end of work day?
Neck & shoulders so tight you get terrible headaches.

Mitigate this with Hatha Yoga.

Guest: Jenn Vardon of "Jenn Vardon Fitness & Yoga”

Jenn's Instagram: @jennvardonfitness.

Jenn’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jennvardon

Send show ideas & questions to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com

Follow her on Instagram and Twitter. @audreyprenzel.

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They say the most common pitfall of any job is the people who work there. I'm about to share with you, in this episode of Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel, some true stories submitted to me by my listeners. This compilation of ridiculous stories is all based in Canada - from a variety of industries and corporate levels. This kind of begs the question, why do people think Canadians are so nice?

I am available for 1:1 coaching & advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals. Email me audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You’re welcome to follow me and message me on Instagram and Twitter. Look for @audreyprenzel.

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Nobody knows salary and benefits negotiations for Mil2Civ job candidates like Audrey Prenzel. Join her to learn why you must, and how you can negotiate once you hit the civilian work sector.

For 1:1 coaching and advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals, email Audrey directly audrey.prenzel@gmail.com.

To order PDF copy of “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. You will receive the link to download it.
Follow Audrey on Instagram: @AudreyPrenzel
Follow Audrey on Twitter: @AudreyPrenzel
Join Mil2Civ (Canadian) Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/mil2civ.job.insight/

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Hello. Hello. Hello. Thanks for tuning into this, the 4th episode of Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel. Today I’m covering what you need to know before, during, and after your job interview as you are nearing the end of your Terms of Service with the Canadian Armed Forces or for Veterans who are already released from the military.

And of course, like most of my military to civilian podcasts, aka mil2civ, these are also geared toward other people who support you in your transition. Who am I talking about? Well, Learning Centre Advisors, or those affiliated with BPSO, WPSO, SCAN seminar coordinators, VAC Case Managers, MFRCs, (a-Jill-ick) Agilec, community employment centres, the occasional independent career practitioner, and spouses and partners... all of them! In fact, this is a deeper dive than what I cover about interviews at SCAN seminars that I present at. Stepping aside from all of these acronyms, this information is also relevant for people who come from other militaries such as the US, UK or Australia.

Let’s figure out where we’re at. You’ve either pulled the pin and you’re already out, or you're on the countdown to your final release day in the Canadian Armed Forces. Your cover letter and résumé are good to go. Your LinkedIn profile is done. You’ve selected your professional references. You’ve actively been networking and applying to jobs.

And then it happens… you get the call… “we’ve had a look at your résumé and would love to invite you in for an interview.”

Now what?

The first 1 or 2 or maybe even first 5 job interviews are going to be important. There are both speaking and content points you’re going to have to stickhandle. To start, you're probably nervous. Being nervous is normal. But there’s really no need to be over-the-top nervous. I always tell people to approach it as if it’s just a fact-finding mission. They’re learning stuff about you. You’re going to be learning stuff about them. Consider yourself on equal ground. When you get this nervousness out of the way, this allows you to process critical information you need to embark on this second career process.

Before you even show up, as in when you get the call or the email, pay attention to any particulars that you learn such as who is going to be there interviewing you. For example, is it the HR person? Is it a technical team lead? Sometimes, it’s even the person who has the job right now you’re applying for. Maybe they’re leaving for whatever reason. Figure out if you can the length projected for the interview, anything you might have to bring, and sometimes they’ll even tell you the type of interview you’re going to have. They might tell you to come a few minutes early to fill in some paperwork or sometimes you have to answer short essay-type pieces for the screening process.

Gather critical documents that you may need like your cover letter, résumé, reference sheet. Sometimes it’s an application form, or sometimes it’s a portfolio. I should add here that of course it’s also appropriate to have some of this material electronically available via your phone so that you can forward them PDF copies as soon as you're done.

Unless otherwise told, arrive about 5 minutes early, as in 5 minutes before you’re supposed to start. If you're unsure at all about things like where to park or how to actually find the office in a large, multi-level building, you may want to do a test run a day or 2 in advance. It's not wrong to show up early to the site in general, just don’t actually walk into the interview space until 5 minutes before. There’re busy. They have stuff going on and they could be trying to finish stuff up with another candidate. It just makes things awkward. So, 5 minutes, that’s the general rule.

Make sure you're dressed appropriately and neatly. It's nice when they give you the heads up about what the dress is. So, for example something like business casual. If they tell you that, listen to that, pay attention, dress accordingly. It's pretty much standard anymore, you don't wear cologne or perfume because technically, this is a health and safety issue because of environmental sensitivities experienced by some people. It actually extends to “fragranced products” so even things like deodorant or skin cream or hairspray fall into this category. Just assume most places have a fragrance-free policy in effect and you can't go wrong.

Please remember to acknowledge everyone when you come in. Even just smile at people as you pass them in the hall. Always be nice to everyone. Over the years, I have heard repeatedly from decision makers who learnt after interviews that candidates were dismissive to their office administrators or other candidates. In one case, someone was rude to the office administrator and it happened to be the boss's spouse. They've even been gossiping in the bathroom about the corporate CEO on the phone with someone – just before their job interview –

not knowing that the exact corporate CEO they’re talking about was in the stall next to them. You can imagine how that went. That interview went down the toilet before it even started.

Remember to sit up straight when you're in the waiting area. Don’t slouch and when you're in the interview room either.

Don’t cross your arms or your legs. Crossed arms means you look defensive. Crossed legs usually means you look like you're too relaxed and aren't taking it seriously.

When you meet the interviewers, just say their names back to them the way they say them to you.

“Hi Bob, nice to meet you” or “Hi Mr. Smith, nice to meet you” or “Angela, we spoke on the phone. What a pleasure to meet you.” Just repeat back how they say their names to you. Easy breezy. Please omit that sir and ma'am stuff. When I say I’m “Audrey” to somebody, I expect them to say, “Hey Audrey, nice to meet you.” Don’t ma'am me.

It’s usually standard practice to do the so called “small talk” but rest assured, everything must have purpose. “So, tell us about yourself” is one of the most common ways an interview is started. Regardless of how nonchalant they make this question seem; it is not casual. This is a chance to start building value right from the get go. They don't want to know where you were born or what pets you have. Ultimately, they want to know what you can do for them, so that’s what you’re going to feed them.

This “tell me about yourself” phrase… use the “PAGE” acronym to tackle this question or request.

P: Personality (share some details about your nature)

A: Achievements (indicate relevant achievements or accomplishments)

G: Goals (tell them what you want to do within their company or organization) See how you’re kind of making this about them?

E: Education & Experience (briefly tell them the most relevant points from your training and work history)

Let’s look at a possible answer for this PAGE acronym in use for someone in a financial support position. Here we go.

“Thanks for inviting me here. To start, I'm regarded as an extremely well-organized and detail-oriented individual who thrives with the opportunity to work with administration, spreadsheets, and budgets. In my current position at (say the Base name or Wing name), I developed a proprietary tracking method that kept better tabs on our section’s invoices, RFPs, and expenses, So, working leanly finding efficiencies is something I'm absolutely known for. I understand with this expansion that you're currently planning and hiring for; you could use somebody who could take charge of your administrative and financial planning. My qualifications include senior-most level financial administrative clerk credentials through the military, as well as 9 years of experience in a relevant, high-volume capacity.” Bingo. Done. That’s your PAGE acronym in practice.

From there, they’ll probably go right into behavioural-based questions. The behavioural-based interview is a standard style of interviewing that companies often use to screen or eliminate candidates. The premise is this: the most accurate predictor of future performance is past performance in a similar situation. Now, I didn't make this up. This has been around for a long time. I’m just explaining it here for you because it’s usually the go-to in all or part of any job interview.

So, the key to succeeding in these interviews - and when I mean succeeding, I mean being either invited to a subsequent interview or being offered the job - the key is preparation. Failing to plan is planning to fail. This goes for anybody, not just soon-to-be-released military people or Veterans. This advice goes for everybody.

So, here’s how it goes: instead of asking, “What would you do?” … the interviewer says, “Name a situation when…” or “Tell me a time when…”.

The best model to answer these behavioural interview questions is to use the SAR model, S.A.R. Situation / Action / Result.

Sometimes people use the CAR acronym – same idea: Challenge / Action / Result. I’ll use S.A.R.

The situation means what was going on.

The action refers to what you did to tackle the problem.

The result is what was the bottom line from your initiative in response to the problem.

I found that people are often good at saying what the problem was, and they're also pretty good at saying what they did about it, but then they shut up. They figure the interviewer will be able to put 2 + 2 together. Don't make people try and guess what happened. The value proposition lies in the result.

Let’s look at a few sample behavioural interview questions.

Tell us about a time you had to go the extra mile to please a customer. (That one’s very common.)
Give us an example of how you recently developed rapport with someone under very trying circumstances?
Provide us with a recent example of how you successfully dealt with a very stressful situation.
Tell us about a time when your supervisor did’nt support you.
Explain the time you worked in a group to achieve a goal. What was the goal you were trying to accomplish and what was your role? How was the group able to achieve the goal? Sometimes you’re going have multi-part questions and that 5th one was an example of that.

I’ll add that they’ll quite often start it by saying, “From your résumé, give me an example of…” whatever they want to know. So, know your résumé inside out. Sometimes, and I’m telling you this because sometimes people send out the résumé 1, 2, 3, 5 months before. They just send it out nonstop. They don’t review it. They forget what they put in it.

So, let’s walk through an example here. Somebody could read out an achievement, which would be a bullet from your résumé, and they’re going to actually read it out so that other people in the panel can hear what this achievement is.

Upon arrival at the Unit, instituted innovative measures and protocols to address a long-standing disgruntled, unproductive workforce with high absenteeism, compromised environmental disposal adherence, and a backlog of formal grievances.

So, that was an achievement from a résumé. I’ll read that to you again.

Upon arrival at the Unit, instituted innovative measures and protocols to address a long-standing disgruntled, unproductive workforce with high absenteeism, compromised environmental disposal adherence, and a backlog of formal grievances.

So, from this, the question they could ask would be, “Tell us about how you reversed a negative workplace situation.”

“Right, I had just been posted in from an East Coast Base. I had been told by both my career manager and my superior at my last posting that I was specifically selected for this position due to my history of implementing change to reverse underperforming workforces. Knowing this, I wasn't overly surprised to see the mess I walked into. The first thing I did was conduct a needs assessment. I watched what was happening, I met with every single person to take stock of their viewpoint by actively listening. I gathered all of the administration I could find about the grievances and absenteeism, and I also spoke with the H&S inspectors about the environmental disposal concerns. Once I had a grasp of the gravity of the situation, I called everyone together for a meeting. I reviewed my findings, indicated what changes I’d be implementing, and I told them why. I also opened up the floor to hear any of their own concerns or comments. Because of the open forum, there were a few issues I was able to resolve right then and there such as complaints of some the people leaving work early or skimping on paperwork. Everyone heard the same message at the same time from me: the decision maker. There were no questions about what was or was not supposed to happen. For some of the more complex matters though, I again met with individuals or sometimes with 2 or 3 people if there were grievances that need to be resolved.

It took about 10 weeks or so of due diligence on my part in ensuring that the right systems were in place and teams were supported instead of being chastised, which is what had actually happened with the previous supervisor. I introduced a few more physical fitness initiatives like volleyball and golf tournaments and I had a special lunch provided for all staff, including the federal government workers and unionized folks on the last Thursday of each month. My aim was to bring in a bit more positivity into the workplace. Like every one of my positions, I was consistently visible, approachable, and helpful.

I couldn’t have been more pleased with the results. There were no further grievances. Productivity significantly boosted. All protocols for EH&S were adhered to without exception and I even witnessed members checking up on each other to make sure that they were complying. I was also pleased to see there was a little bit more camaraderie. I’ve repeatedly addressed situations like this throughout my career and that’s central to why I’ve been assigned to the positions I have. I’m ready to do the same quality change management integration for you.”

That’s your S.A.R… your situation, action, result. Some people actually say “The situation was… the action I took was… the result was…” You can. I just don’t really think that’s very sophisticated. I prefer a more organic approach to sharing your situation, action, result. If I were you, I’d zhuzh it a bit to make it sound more naturally flowing.

Quite often, people will ask me, “Audrey, how do you know what they’re going to ask?” No one really knows for sure but at my stage of the game, I can give some educated guesses. You're going to know the core competencies of what they need in this job. You saw it in the job ad. Use these core competencies to help you prepare for your interview. Based on the type of position you're interviewing for; you could have examples mapped out of how you solved the problem or dealt with difficult clients or coworkers or utilized your organizational skills in a time sensitive situation or motivated an underperforming team or introduced better H&S procedures. Use what’s in the job ad as the basis for what they’re going to ask you about and then have SAR / situation, action, result answers mapped out for each of these central points that you find in the job ad.

Look at each core competency with the lens … what could go wrong and how could I fix it? Listen, you know your job. You know your industry. Otherwise, you wouldn't be interviewing for this position if you didn't think you could do the job. What's the weakest link in these core competencies? Is it a people problem? Is it a technology problem? Is it a logistics problem? Is it an administrative problem?

Again, your résumé should serve as a good guide when answering these questions. Even though you grab them from your résumé, I’d also have 2 to 3 examples for every 1 of these core competencies. This way you’re ready to borrow from 1 if you need to use it to answer another type of question unexpectedly. Sometimes the questions are a little blurry and 1 example you thought you’d use to answer 1 type of a question, is actually better suited for something else they’ve just asked you right now. So, what I’m saying is, don’t just have 1 SAR situation / action / result example mapped out for problem-solving, have 3. Have 3 examples for improved communications or 3 examples critical incident response. That’s what you need to do.

A good answer could be anywhere between 5 to 10 minutes. This is why I asked you to take stock at the beginning of this episode if you can learn how long the interview is going to be. If they didn’t tell you, and they don’t always, I’d certainly ask. I don’t think there’s any harm in asking. You could phrase it something like, “Great, thank you. Can you tell me how long the interview is planned for?” Just something simple like that.

Here’s the deal… if you know let’s say you have 45 minutes and you’re still going strong and at the55 minute and you’ve captivated your audience, that’s a good sign. If, on the other hand, you have 45 minutes and they’re ushering you out of the 12-minute mark, I hate to tell you but something went wrong. So, just use it as a gauge as you go along.

Be aware that sometimes they may do the good cop / bad cop scenario or somebody playing the role trying to be rude, the other one is trying to be super sweet. These are just games and sometimes companies do it, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes there’s actually people on the interview panel who don’t look up, don’t look at you, pretend they’re not interested, pretend they’re bored out of their minds and they don’t want to be there.

I’m just saying sometimes this happens so stay focussed throughout any of these situations and you'll be fine.

Sometimes it’s just a game. Know the rules. Keep playing. You got this.

So, here's a tip for those of you who are confident or when you feel like you’ve just really nailed an answer well. If, you know, you've given your answer in the SAR (situation, action, result) format and you want to add a little more punch, listen up.

Casually mention a final, value-add, they-can't live-without-you clincher sentence. Here's some examples after you've gone through your situation, action, result answer.

“I'm hopeful that's the calibre of project management expertise your company values.”

Or what about… “My research tells me that your company operates with a similar approach to resolve deeply embedded conflict between management and your unionized workforce.”

Or, “From what I understand, your plant’s quality control standards are in sync with the actions I took and the results they yielded.”

Or, “I'm confident the methods I used to seamlessly roll-out the new software nation-wide could easily be duplicated for your 5 sites on the East Coast.”

If you want to make it more of a question, you could say something like, “Is saving $130,000 from the annual operating budget without hampering quality or safety something your company could benefit from?”

You would ask a question like this assuming the situation, action, result you just shared detailed how you, in fact, saved $130K from an annual operating budget. This is absolutely a question they can't say “no” to. You're basically taking whatever the core competency is they’re asking you about in the interview question, and you’re integrating it into 1, just 1, sentence that ties your achievement with their needs. In these examples, it was project management, conflict resolution, quality control, new software launches, and fiscal prudence. You're giving them undeniable, non-arguable proof that you can meet their needs. There is no possible way that they can say no or disagree with any of these phrases. Unless you are completely out to lunch with their needs, but I know you've been listening to the previous podcasts, so I'm confident you’re on the right track.

Either before or after behavioural based questions, or sometimes interspersed throughout, you may have a few more interview questions thrown your way.

These are usually standalone questions like, “What’s your greatest strength?” Resist the urge to reel off a long list of broad strengths. Choose a strength of yours that goes well with this specific role you’re interviewing for and for the company. Provide antidotes if you can. Share them in the context of a real-life scenario.

What is your greatest weakness or what is a weakness of yours?

Don’t be cute. Don’t be funny. Don’t say chocolate. People really do say chocolate.

Also don’t try to do that famous “air quote” mask-a-strength-as-a-weakness thing “end air quote”. Like “Oh, sometimes I work so late” or “I work too hard, I just don’t know when to quit” or “I can get caught up in the details”. Come on. You’re really saying that you’re just working very hard and you don’t stop and you're detail oriented. Don’t insult them. Don’t waste their time. Don’t insult yourself. Don’t embarrass yourself.

Think of something that you’ve been working on. Be honest. Be authentic. Here’s an example, “I haven’t always been the best at remembering people's names. I have however, developed a mnemonic recollection strategy that can help most of the time. Sometimes though, honestly, I simply have to say, “I’m sorry, I forget your name. Can you tell it to me again please?” and then I note it in the memo section on my phone.” That’s authentic. That tracks.

Here’s another one… and this was one was with actually a younger engineer I was coaching. He spoke way too quickly and he’d get all excited and he’d caught up in his projects he was telling me about and he thought everyone else could follow along as he’s going 1,000 miles an hour. His voice would actually get higher and higher and faster and faster. He would go up at the end of each sentence. It was so fast and high I thought he was going to take flight. In linguistic terms, they call it high rise terminal. It’s called “upspeak”. Anyway, whatever you want to call it, as I was helping him prepare for the famous question, “What is your weakness?” he’s telling me he didn't have any weaknesses. Well, me being me, I said, “I'm so glad we're talking because here's what I've noticed” and I told him. He had no clue. He actually seemed irritated with me and wondered why his colleagues never told him this. I said listen, “It's not your teammates' job to correct you. It's your job to correct you. In this case you paid me, so I’m correcting you. So, let’s do it now.”

So, here’s the answer to the question that we formulated about “tell me a weakness you have” and he used it and he actually got the job. Here’s what he said: “Over the span of my career thus far, I’ve realized that I tend to speak too quickly. I’m working hard now to purposefully slow down my pace despite the fact that it seems painfully slow to me. I take this seriously enough though that I’ve hired a speaking coach to help me so when I do presentations or chair meetings or when I attend industry events, I sound better. I’m easier to listen to and chat with. Listen, I don't know anyone better than me with my mechanical engineering skill-set, but as I progress through my career, I have a greater appreciation for soft-skills such as this, and that’s why I’m working on it.”

Yeah, that lands, right? He got the job.

In terms of the strength and weakness questions, I would expect them. They’re pretty standard and if you’re potentially in the running for a situation where you know there’s going to be one or more interviews in the selection process, these are usually going to be thrown at you in that very first interview. So, I don’t think there’s any need for to be caught off guard. I would absolutely expect these.

For any of these questions that you’re asked in an interview, if you need a second or two to think about it – and it’s ok – look down not up. When we look up, others tend to think we're making things up. When we look down, it's perceived more as reflecting.

Towards the end of the interview, when they ask, “Do you have any questions for us?”, always have questions. Let’s go over some of them. I'll shoot you some now just to get you started and this will help you prepare.

If you want to gain more insight into the company's corporate culture and management style, you could ask something like, “What was the last change you implemented based on employee feedback and what impact did it have?”
What opportunities does this company offer for professional development?
How often does your facility promote from within?
What would be my key priorities within the first 6 months? (This is your opportunity to mention any action you’ve taken to demonstrate your ability to fill that need by the way).
Who does this position report to and if I am offered the position, can I meet him or her?
How many people work in this office or department?
How much travel is expected?
What’s your work from home or telecommuting policy?
How many hours in your typical work week? Is overtime expected?
What do you like about working here?
Where do you see the company going in the next few years? You need to make sure that their agenda match your own development goals. If the organization appears stagnant and you don't see much room for any sort of professional development, you should ask yourself if this is really the company that you want to work for.
If we developed a philosophical difference, how would you resolve it? (The answer offers insight into the manager's communication style and the manager’s ability to resolve conflict so it’s a good question. I think it’s one of the most important questions.)
What would you like to see done differently by the next person who holds this position?
Are there any other questions I can answer for you to address any doubts you have about me?
If we were to “fast forward” and assume that I've been working for a year and I’ve received an excellent performance review, what are the things I will have done during the 12 months to earn that?

So, those were some example questions you could ask. I would say have a few already to go in your arsenal when you enter this phase of the interview, as the interview is drawing to a close. You want more than one because some of these questions may be actually covered throughout the interview.

Let's talk about things you shouldn't ask. These are true questions that have been asked.

What does this company do? I just can’t even.
If I get the job, when can I take time off for vacation? Come on, wait until you get a job offer to mention any prior travelling commitments.
Can I change my schedule if I get the job? I like leaving early on Fridays. Probably not.
Are the rumours I heard about the boss true? I don’t know. I don’t know. People ask these.
Can I bring my cat to work with me? She doesn’t like to be at home by herself all day. Um, probably not!
Do you monitor Internet usage and sites visited? That’s scary.
How many sick days can I use a month? They’ll probably tell you to leave right then and there if you ask that.
Do you check our bags when we leave each day? Yeah, a woman asked that once in an interview locally. That’s funny.
How strict are you with employees showing up on time? Wow.
Did I get the job? “Did I get the job?” just shows excitement. It’s not horrible but they’re going to tell you whether you got the job or not.

So, what else makes sense for you just to have some more insight about? If you’re interviewing at a Veteran-friendly company, perhaps something like aerospace or logistics or a defence community, then obviously they understand the intrinsic value you bring. But the 1000s of men and women from the Canadian Armed Forces, and some from the US military I’ve helped over the years, they told me some incidents that caught them off guard. With your cover letter and résumé and assuming it was already strategically written, you shouldn't have to find yourself in a position where you have to say something like, “Why yes the Canadian Armed Forces does have postal workers or human resource administrators or musicians or photographers or flight attendants or dentists.” You and I know it’s basically everything anyone would have in a town, only it’s in a Base or a Wing. Naturally, Bases and Wings have to operate in a self-sufficient context so that they have the capability to be deployed or respond to humanitarian issues or natural disasters around the world, as well as take care of all of their members. A tooth can be chipped in Afghanistan as easily as it can be chipped in Gagetown. Mail has to be sent to members anywhere in the world. Members need medical help regardless of where they’re working on the planet at any given day of the year.

So, soon-to-be-released members of the military and Veterans have actually been asked questions like:

Have you killed anybody?

How many people have you shot?

Wow? Can you operate a tank?

How many types of airplanes can you fly?

What’s it like to go to work every day with a camouflaged face?

So, I guess you must have PTSD, eh?

Let me guess, “if you tell me you'll have to kill me”.

So, these questions were asked to human resources administrators, dental technicians, and postal clerks. Because of what TV shows and movies sensationalize with the war and the media covers, this is what everyone thinks that everyone in the military does. They don’t even think about those other support positions because they don’t know about them. I don’t know of too many action movies involving HR folks or dental techs or postal clerks.

“Hey, listen, I’ve got my keyboard, you take them down with the dental floss, and I’ll just put stamps on them.” Yeah, that just doesn’t happen. So, what do you do with this?

Here’s my advice:

Remain calm and cool. I know it’s absurd. But in Canada, people are just not aware of what the Canadian Armed Forces do. Literally, I’ve been giving presentations in little towns like, I don’t know let’s say Toronto, and I’ve been giving presentations nothing to do with military, but when I say I’m from Trenton, Ontario, I always mention it. I always say it’s got Canada’s largest Air Force Base. 90% of the people in my audience, and these are smart people, they’ve never even heard of it. They don’t know. They'll say, I’m saying I’m from Trenton, Canada’s largest Air Force Base, they’ll say something like, “Oh wow. So, you’re come from an army town.” What? I wish I was joking about this but I wasn’t.
You may have to harness the patience of the Saint. Just remain nice and understand that you’re going to have to explain a few things. This not only involves interviews but of course general networking. Knee jerk reactions such as “Are you serious?” or “You’ve got to be kidding me” don’t go well. And I’m telling you this because more than one Veteran or soon-to-be-released, or recently released Canadian Armed Forces personnel has said this.
If by chance, you are aware of a Veteran who is already working for that company you’re applying for, and maybe the selection committee isn’t aware of it, it’s certainly OK, after explaining what you do, to say something like, “In fact, my friend Wally, who steers your finance department, I worked alongside Wally at CFB Edmonton. Small world, right? He enjoys it here and that’s one of the many reasons why I threw in my hat for this opportunity.” This instantly gives a real-life example of how well someone from the military can integrate successfully into their workspace. You’ll be able to see, literally, the cloud of mystery dissolve.

My final point here is about money. Please, don't be the first to bring up salary. That does not mean it’s not important. Just don’t be the first. You want to deflect it as long as possible. The idea is that you want to create value and then you can go for the bigger “ask”. Sometimes, they may casually ask you at the beginning of the interview, “So, how much you looking to make?” Don't take that bait. Respond with something like, “if it’s all right with you, I'd like to learn a little bit more about the opportunity before I confidently answer. That seems fair, doesn't it?”

It's pretty hard to disagree with that.

If they ask you what you made in the military or what your military pension is, 100% none of their business, has zero bearing on what they should or should not be paying you. It’s private, confidential information. I'll leave you with that. I’ll be discussing salary and benefits negotiations in the next podcast. But I just want to plant the seed now though because sometimes you'll be asked this. The only time when you should straight-up answer is if it’s a recruiter, search firm person, and they need to know your absolute number. So, this of course, would be well-researched ahead of time. Still, nobody needs to know how much you made in the military and what any of the regular or medical pensions you have are worth. It is none of their business. Please know that.

On the same day you’ve had your interview, send a thank you note. It can be an email. If you do want to do the hardcopy card that’s fine, but anymore, there’s nothing wrong with an email and it’s faster, and you know it’s going to get there. Try and get everyone’s names and emails in on that email. Thank them for their consideration, and I’d probably remind them of 1 key attribute that you bring to the job they’re looking for and reiterate that again the message and still let them you want to work for their company. We’re talking no more than 4 sentences. Most people do not follow-up at all with a thank you. You can never go wrong by saying thank you, ever.

And now, I'm going to say thank you for tuning in to “Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel”. Please feel free to share this podcast with someone else who you think could benefit from it. Leave comments and of course hit subscribe. If you’d like a PDF copy of my book, “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com & I’ll send you the link to download it. Although I’m not writing so much anymore, I am available for 1:1 coaching & advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals. Email me audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. Of course, you’re welcome to follow me and message me on Instagram and Twitter. Look for @audreyprenzel. Life can be challenging. Until our next episode, purposefully take good care of yourself.

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Hello there! I appreciate you joining me in the 3rd episode of Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel. You got, I’m Audrey Prenzel.

In episode 1, I shared important points to think about before you release from the Canadian Armed Forces or whatever military you serve in. In the 2nd episode, I covered the résumés. And right now, it’s all about cover letters.

I’ll start by discussing whether you actually need a cover letter or not. Then I'll share the 3 types of scenarios that do absolutely require a cover letter and what they should look like.

OK, let's go. I've been in the careers game for 2+ decades. I can honestly say it's about a 50-50 split depending on who you talk to whether they say you need a cover letter or not. Now, when I say “they”… I’m referring to human resources folks, or recruiters, or search firms or hiring managers.

In your particular case, here's the deal...

If you'll be working in a trade - which a lot of you will do - or you're looking for some sort of blue collar, warehousing, customer service, hospitality, manufacturing, or retail opportunity, You don't need a cover letter… probably you don't need a cover letter. That being said though, you should make sure that your résumé is basically what I call a “standalone document”. It has to have that “who, what, where, when, and why” that recruiters or temp agencies or human resources or whoever the decision maker is, make sure that they get all the information that they need to hopefully … call you in for an interview.

Honestly those level of jobs are quite vacant these days across Canada and the US so they're not extremely difficult to get. You see those signs everywhere? Hiring today! Paid weekly! Sign-on bonus! What about, “We pay in cash”? Have you seen those? Since the onset of Covid, screening and HR personnel are tired. They've been trying to get people to fill these types of roles and it’s been very, very difficult. So if you can present all your information in a 1-page, succinct résumé, that makes them happy, saves them time, and gets you hired.

If you’re looking for something at the mid-management or executive level, and a lot of you are looking at these levels, the opportunities you're looking at will probably say you have to include a cover letter. These could be senior level IT or logistics or banking or healthcare or administration, or even municipal government positions. So, let’s talk about that.

I think you know by this point that you need to ensure the letterhead on the cover letter is the exact same letterhead that you’ve used on your résumé and will use on your professional reference sheet. Everything has to match. If it doesn’t, it looks sloppy. It looks like you don’t care or don’t pay attention to details. Speaking about your résumé, just briefly here, this is a good time to tell you that a cover letter is not a repeat of the contents of your résumé.

To me, the military uses dates backwards. Suppose it's the metric system. They use the dates backwards than the rest of us. So, see how the company posts the information about dates and the job ads and use that format. You don't want to start, you know, applying to a job and the way you wrote the date it's 3 months early or 3 months late. Start off with a person's name, “Dear so and so”. Not, try something like “Dear Human Resources Manager” or “Dear Decision Maker” or Selection Committee or Selection Committee Chair. Do not put “To Whom it May Concern” and never put “Dear Sirs”. You might Be laughing when I say this but people still write this. And I'm not just talking military people. I see it… people sending me stuff to have a look at - civilians just as much as military. - So, it’s dated. Don't do it.

So, let's get back to the content of the cover letter. You’re looking at 3 paragraphs.

You’ll start with a brief introductory paragraph indicating the position you’re interested in. Less is more. Ideally, 2 well-crafted sentences will hit home. So, for example, something like this…

“With 25 years of experience steering large-scale aircraft maintenance programs in a no-room-for-error context, I’m pleased to share my availability to be Prenzel Airlines’ next Fleet Maintenance Manager. My résumé detailing how I successfully supported the Royal Canadian Air Force in this capacity, follows this cover letter.” Boom. That’s it. That will work.

The 2nd paragraph, or the body of the letter as we call it, you want to indicate how you meet their needs. This is where you would share your relevant work experience first and foremost. Sharing your relevant work experience means quantify and qualify. Call it bragging. You call it just doing your job. Whatever you and I call it, give numbers, give dollar values, give timelines, give information that substantiates an achievement or 2. Doing a little bit of research to find out the company's pain point is always smart. Find out how they’re suffering the most. What's their current challenge? A challenge can be masked as expansion or new product lines or new service streams. Assuming that the job you are applying for is supposed to tackle this problem, paint the picture so they see you’re the Band-Aid to their pain point.

Add any extra special capabilities you bring to the table such as being bilingual or perhaps knowing sign language. Or, they could be pertinent soft skills that you could add. Something like you're a master of conflict resolution or you enjoy coaching younger professionals. This type of information is not only marketable for you… but you’re actually working to break down any stereotypical view that someone not familiar with the military - but who's a decision maker - might have about you.

Briefly mention relevant education but let them know the full scope of your education and professional development is detailed in the résumé. If there’s anything else like technology or special certifications, be sure to include those.

I like to finish these middle paragraphs with a sentence something like, “Although I’m proud of the experience and qualifications I’m offering - as a lifelong learner - I’m certainly receptive to engage in any necessary onboard or mentoring program operated by Prenzel Airlines.” This shows that you’re confident but you’re not cocky. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again … you have to be nice. You can have the best qualifications in the world but you have to be likeable. If nobody likes you, nobody’s hiring you.

The final paragraph usually says the “why”. Why do you want to leave your current job? Why do you want to leave the military - Army, Navy, Air Force? It’s OK to say you fulfilled your contract and it’s time to move on. You never have to indicate that you are a 3B release which is a medical release in the Canadian Armed Forces. Unless you’re applying for a federal government opportunity, the corporate sector doesn’t care and quite frankly, it’s none of their business. So, don't share that private information. You can say you’re ready to move back to your hometown, or looking to settle in one place, or you’re looking for something new, or eager to settle permanently in one community, or whatever the case may be. Let them know you’re hopeful to hear from them and that you’re willing to meet for an initial phone call or online video screening or in-person interview. Thank them for the consideration and sign off, sincerely, whatever your name is.

These cover letters are 1-page. It’s actually nice if they can be 3/4 of 1- page. Never indicate the salary you’re looking for unless it’s specifically asked in the job ad or by the recruiter. Job ads usually will not ask this. Sometimes, recruiters or search firms will. Don’t indicate that you don’t need any benefits or that you will forgo the company picking up the tab to pay for relocation because you are entitled to this with your final military move and you’ll have continued benefits after you're out. These are possibly giving up things in advance that they can beat you down with when it comes to salary negotiation later on. I’m sharing this with you here now, even though we're talking about cover letters, because I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people give up all this information, freely, to their own detriment in a cover letter. I will discuss how to win at salary negotiations in another episode. But I just want to mention this briefly here now. Please don't do that.

The only other point I have for the regular cover letter is don’t include references in it. Don’t even include a matching reference sheet unless it’s asked for. You don’t want your references being called and you don’t even know about it. This can happen. You don’t want to give out the reference sheet and you haven't and you haven't had an interview yet. You don't do it unless you're a serious contender, you've been interviewed, and the company has asked for it. Again, I’m sharing this with you because people have given this at the wrong time, references were called without the job candidate even knowing, without the job candidate even having been interviewed. Let me tell you… things went south. Things went south before they even started. People didn't even know they were a contender until the references told them, “Yeah, I got a call about you the other day.” It happens so please don't do that. I will talk about how to select and successfully employ professional references in yet another upcoming podcast.

There are samples of cover letters in my book of course, “Military to Civvie Street. The Complete Job Transition Guide for those Leaving the RCAF, Army, & RCN”. In fact, they actually match the corresponding resumes in the first part of the book.

So, at the beginning of this podcast I said there are 3 types of cover letters. Technically, it’s 2 sub-components of 1 category referred to as government. In Canada, of course we have federal and provincial levels of government. The provincial level is equivalent to a State in the US. I mentioned municipal government with the private sector work earlier in this podcast because those tend to be treated more like business or private sector-oriented resumes. They’re not part of the same system that provincial and federal governments use so that's why I put those there, in case you’re wondering about that.

If you're looking for provincial or federal opportunities, you do absolutely need a cover letter for these applications. In fact, federal applications, most of the cover letter encapsulates your application. The cover letter is the big fat hairy deal.

You’re allotted sometimes 10,000 words in a federal cover letter. Your task with these cover letters is to basically answer every question that they ask in the federal job advertisement as well as indicate how you meet every single listed core and essential competency. These are a lot of work and they are their own separate breed of cover letters. In these cases, the resumes technically act as a more of a backup document. The cover letter is front and centre without question. You literally copy and paste the questions they ask and write a well thought out little mini essay-type answer to each question.

They are very clear… in order to be considered, your application must clearly explain how you meet the following essential qualifications. It’s not enough to say you’re good at time management if that's the essential qualification they're looking for. So, if you can't say I'm good at time management or leave it at that, what do you say? Well, I have an example for you right here.

“My time management skills are exceptional and I have consistently leveraged them throughout my career. To specifically support my point, in my current role at “base name - whatever the base name is” I’m not only doing my administrative logistics role, I've also been tasked to fulfill the responsibilities of 2 of my peers who are away on long-term sick leave. In addition to this, I have been keeping up with the demands of a special warehousing inventory project that was assigned to me last month. Unlike others who held this role before me, I have thrived in my core accountabilities and I’ve also ensured that I have continued to meet the requirements of my secondary duties including social committee, fire warden, and harassment advisor. My reference, who is my immediate supervisor, will confirm that the quality of my work has not been hampered whatsoever by these additional workload demands. I'm ready to offer this calibre of time management to your department.”

Whoa! How’s that? Yeah, pretty good. That will do it.

I’ll mention that there are places within the application system with the federal government to indicate that you are a Veteran. If you happen to be what is referred to as those 3B or medically released personnel, there are further areas where you would check boxes. Just very recently, the Province of Ontario has implemented a Veteran-friendly recruiting approach. And there’s a special recruitment page on their website just for Veterans. I can post that link afterwards. Overall, though, unless a job ad indicates they have a preference for hiring Veterans, don’t bank on simply being a Vet as marketable. You, again, have to paint that picture: why you are intriguing enough to be called in for an interview. This is the case in Canada. I know that in the States, Veterans are much more sought after than here, sadly, but I mean it is what it is. I’ve been personally spreading the word about “Hire-a-Veteran” in Canada since 2001. I'm getting there but I still have a ways to go. I'm not done yet. Although with the specialized cover letters and the résumés, as part of, you have to build a profile with the Government of Canada - an online profile. These take a long time. They take a lot of work. And even as you're about to learn that you're going to get an interview once you've applied, you could've applied to that job maybe 6 or 8 or 10 months ago. It's a slow process. You are smart to start the federal application online profile building even a year before you are going to be leaving the military. Set up before. I'll say it again. I'm a strong advocate of “start everything sooner than you think you have to”.

In terms of structure, provincial cover letters can be very similar to their federal counterparts. For example, with the Province of Ontario again, I always took every core competency and ensured I addressed the qualification or character trait or specific set of skills they were asking for, I addressed them 1 by 1. What I'm saying is I literally copied the key point from the job ad, pasted it into the cover letter, and wrote the answer to it directly under the point from the job ad. That way, there are no if, ands, or buts: every question or point was addressed. An interview-generating cover letter for the Province of Ontario is usually 2 or 3 full pages. Expect to put thought into this, a lot of thought. Their overall maximum for the résumé and cover letter, you send it in 1 document, combined is 5 full pages. So, that's a lot.

Some of the headings in the cover letter, each with 5 or 6 further bulleted points underneath could include sample categories such as:

Customer Service & Communication Skills
Administrative Skills
Specialized Knowledge
Analytical, Planning & Organizational Skills
Computer Skills
Leadership Interpersonal Problem-solving & Negotiation Skills
Relationship Management / Political Acuity

Pretty diverse, eh? For provincial cover letters, you shore it up at the end with a brief paragraph that reiterates extra qualifications, hard and soft skills, and professional development that supports your candidacy.

Again, let them know you’re open for an initial phone screening (which they will do), or video conference call, or an in-person interview. Thank them for their consideration and finish of course with Sincerely “your name”. I always prefer “Sincerely” over “Yours Truly”. I think “Sincerely” is good in the business world. I don’t think you have to say something like, “I can be contacted at the phone number above.” To me, that’s obvious and it kind of just sucks up space that you don't need to use. I’m pretty sure If it's obvious to me, it's obvious to the person who's reading it. I always say there has to be value in every point, in every word, in every phrase, in every sentence. And if there’s no point in it, it shouldn’t be there.

In all of this, just like your writing and all your speaking, your networking, anybody you want to connect with in any capacity - in the public or civilian sector - Do… not… use… one… single… military… acronym. Say everything out completely. And if, when you say the full name of the organization of your branch or the particular section you work in, and it still might not be clear to a civilian, take the time to make it clear. Don't assume they know. Don't assume they're going to be able to figure it out. They don't have to. There are other job candidates. It's not their job to make you state your place of work or Whatever you're trying to say clearly. That's your job. If they don't understand where you work you better share its function. You want to again, build a bridge between you and the reader, not break one down.

Oh, make sure you use Canadian spelling please. Our spelling conventions are a unique combination between UK and US spelling practices. I posted some resources to help with this in the previous episode. I will also post those reference links in my Facebook group, “Military to Civvie Street: Job Insight”.

I know I've covered a lot of details in this episode. The best thing you can do is start way before you think you have to. Make sure you have all your information, know what you want to shoot for, and then systematically follow the steps from these and the previous 2 podcasts. But hey, don’t forget, keep listening for upcoming podcasts too because I have a lot more to tell you.

I want to thank you again for tuning in. Please feel free to share this podcast with someone else who could benefit from it. Leave comments and of course hit subscribe. If you’d like a PDF copy of my book, “Military to Civvie Street”, e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com & I’ll send you the link to download it. Also, I’m not writing so much anymore, I’m available for 1:1 coaching & advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals. Email me audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. Of course, you’re also welcome to follow me and message me on Instagram. Look for my username @audreyprenzel. Life can be challenging. Until our next episode, purposefully take good care of yourself.

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Known as the toughest type of résumé to write, Audrey Prenzel, Canada’s foremost mil2civ career transition pro and speaker, reviews (but not in a boring way!) tactical résumé development. Questions? Email Audrey audrey.prenzel@gmail.com Join her mil2civ FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/mil2civ.job.insight

IG @AudreyPrenzel

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Hello there and thank you for joining me in the inaugural episode of Career Podcast with Audrey Prenzel. This first episode is called, “5 Must-Dos Before you Make the Military-to-Civilian Career Shift”. Although I’ve been speaking professionally for decades, this is technically my 1st podcast. So whether thinking about making this move yourself or you’re someone who works with members or supporting them somehow in the transition, I’m so glad you’re here.

In this initial episode, I’m going to be sharing my 20+ years of military to civilian career transition insight. Anybody who’s anybody in the world of careers, human resources, employment centres, recruitment firms… they know that the military to civilian career transition is the most difficult. It’s my intention to cover 5 core topics in this episode that are going to bring to light what needs to be thought about way before the nitty-gritty of cover letters, resumes, job applications, and interview and salary negotiation strategies.

The 1st thing I’ll be chatting about is why me?
The 2nd point I want to hit is ensuring you’re in the right mindset before hanging up the uniform.
Thirdly, I’ll give you a primer about what you need to start collecting and doing well BEFORE you’re out.
And the 4th issue I’ll discuss is ideal timelines. And this, this is a surprise for most people.
And finally, I’ll share the most common mistake exiting service personnel – from all ranks - make when choosing their civilian role.
So why me? Well, because I’ve got the knowledge and I like to help. I literally wrote the only book on the subject in Canada. I’ve spoken at countless Bases and Wings at SCAN seminars (those are Second Career Assistance Network events), MFRC (those are Military Family Resource Centre events), OSSIS meetings (those are Operational Stress Injury Social Support groups), along with career conferences and corporate presentations, and media interviews and so on. In fact, a lot of the content I’m going to be covering in my podcast on this topic is actually stuff I’ve talked about at these events. I’ve personally helped thousands of Canadian Armed Forces men and women, from all elements, Non-Commissioned Members and Officers, get the job they want, at the level they want, where they want, when they want. I did that full tilt from 2001 until 2019. Since then, I’ve been taking on the occasional coaching client and of course I still sell my book Military to Civvie Street. Canadian military members still serving, and Veterans, and spouses are welcome to join my Facebook group called, “Military to Civvie Street Job Insight”. Before I get into the specifics of what you should consider before you put in your release papers, I’ll mention that most of my experience is with the Canadian Armed Forces however I have also dealt with people from the US, UK, and Australia. But I’ll explain any specific jargon as I go along so everyone can understand it. Well, if you’re feeling left out for my UK, Aussie or American listeners well, that’s because my Facebook group is geared specifically for Canadians but I know there are Facebook groups out there to cover your military so have a look for those and you can join if you haven’t already done so.
So, let’s hit this 2nd point - embracing the right mindset. So, you’ve had an extremely structured career. You’ve been told what to do, how to speak and how to dress. And everything has been procedurally entrenched in your mind. Now everything is about to change. Probably the most obvious factor in a new civilian workspace is what you would call dress and deportment. Sure, some places have uniforms but this is your chance to not to have to worry about being having a fastidiously neat and pressed uniform. You can wear your hair or jewellery, or your make-up, or sleeves rolled up / rolled down … do that the way you want (of course you know, keeping safety in mind). Most people welcome this kind of change. But for a few, it’s a little difficult to accept others who, to them, you know, appear messy or unkempt. So, you’re going to have to learn to let all that go.
In keeping with being in the right headspace, you’re going to find multi / bidirectional communications everywhere. So, understand that it’s usually a lot easier to chat with people from all levels of the corporate mix within an organization. I’m not saying, you know, there won’t be workplace cliques, sure there will. But, it’s pretty free-flowing and if you want to say something generally it’s OK just to speak up and say what’s on your mind. It’s is not always easy for people though to do this because it’s new and I just want to start laying the foundation that it’s OK to talk with someone directly. Don’t have to worry about chain of command. It’s OK to sit down and chat with, you know, the “top dog” so to speak. Buy hey, please, don’t do that “yes sir, yes ma’am” stuff. OK?
Rank… it was and will always be a big deal in the military. But what if you get out and you’re working for someone who previously reported to you at a much lower rank? Would you be OK with that? Because many industries such as defense or aerospace, security, logistics and others hire veterans and it’s not uncommon for people who used alongside each other in the military to reconnect and work again in these sectors. So, you’re going to have to check your ego at the door. Don’t worry about sharing what your rank was - whether it’s high or whether it’s low – regardless of the level – civvies don’t care, they don’t get it, they don’t understand. So, you’re going to have to be ready to deal with that.
The next point regarding the right mindset is to embrace the idea that appointments, recertification, continuing education… It’s now… for the most part… on your own time and on your own dime. Get ready to start scheduling your medical appointments and meetings for your kids after work. If you want to cut loose early on a Friday because you have to head to your kid’s weekend hockey or soccer tournament, you’re going to be ready to suck up vacation time and use that. When you want to take a professional development course, even when you have to take it for your new job, paying for them yourself and doing them on evenings, weekends and holidays… that’s pretty much the norm. I’ve even heard of veterans being snagged by heavy snowfall. They’re used to taking their time shoveling out their driveways and then showing up to work when they’re done and ready and it’s safe to do so. So, outside of the military, ya, you got to up earlier and you got to show up on time, or else you’re written up or else you’re fired. So, these factors may not seem like much to some, but on top of everything else, you don’t want to be overwhelmed when you hit Civvie Street.
Still keeping with getting the right mindset, corporate culture is a big deal. And it changes from organization to organization. So, you now have the choice! Think about the type of workplace you want to work at next. Do you want someplace that’s driven purely by money? Maybe you’re thinking you’d like something with a nonprofit element or something that’s geared strictly towards humanitarian or environmental issues maybe you want to work in the high tech sector. Make sure your personal values align with the corporate culture of the industry you’re seeking and the place you want to work. Ask around, look online, do the research to make sure that once you get in a place, no, you don’t want to be in a situation where you don’t like the hustle or bustle. You know, you’ve done enough of that. Or maybe you find a particular field (ah I don’t know) too slow paced for you. Reflect about what it is you really want because now is your chance to make it work. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people jump into what they figure is an ideal job and they’re fully qualified for it but they just don’t fit in with the interpersonal dynamics or the pace of the place or just the overall vibe of the company. Yep, money is a driver, I get it. But for your happiness and emotional and mental wellness it pays off to reflect about what are the elements of workspace you like. When you’re actually ready to apply 6 or 8 months out or even the next year, you can start to do the research now for places that align with that corporate culture that jives with you.
OK, the 3rd point, what you need to collect before you leave. So, I want you to make sure that you have hard and electronic copies of all your important paperwork. (And when you’re talking about the soft or electronic copies, please send this it to your personal email. Don’t leave it stuck somewhere in your military email). In the Canadian Armed Forces, you’re going to want what it’s called your MPRR and for other listeners that means the members personal record résumé. (But I just want to make it clear, this is not the résumé you’re going to hand out for jobs. We’ll cover that in another podcast). Make sure your courses and qualifications are accurate and complete. I mean, do I have to tell you mistakes happen? You’re going to want what you and I would know as your PERs (and for other listeners these are your annual Personnel Evaluation Reports). And you also want to grab anything that says amazing things about your work performance like an internal memo, an LoA (which is a Letter of Appreciation), and what we call a BZ which is a Bravo Zulu. Again, just notes and messages saying great things about something that you’ve done while you’re in. Now to be clear, you don’t need to do anything with these yet, just make sure you have them. I can’t tell you how many times in the hustle and bustle of releasing, people forget to collect their documents. With frequent postings to different bases, you know sometimes important papers can get lost or damaged. So, I always advise to store them electronically and preferably in the cloud. So, we’ll call these items constitute your 2nd career collateral kit.
Timelines. My kids, my clients, anyone who has ever heard me speak, will confirm that I’m a strong advocate of “start everything sooner than you think you have to.” When you know you’re final 18 or even 24 months out from the end of your contract, if you haven’t already done so, create a LinkedIn profile. Don’t even necessarily have to fill it out. Just create it and just put the bare bones in it. Start building a network. Start following companies or industries that you find interesting. Bookmark relevant corporate webpages and job boards. Follow social media accounts of companies and of industry leaders that you find interesting.
A lot of people are intimidated by that word or think it means butt kissing. Nooooo…… It simply means connecting with other people and helping, but you’re expecting nothing in return. By the way, when you ask someone, you know, “can you get me a job”? That’s not networking. I call that laziness and it simply doesn’t work. Networking is offering to help. And when you help with others and when you connect with others, you’re allowing yourself to become a point of knowledge and contact for key people in these industries that interest you. So, it behooves me to mention that things go so much easier if you’re likeable. Be nice. Always be nice. If I asked your coworkers what they thought about you right now, today, what would they say? Think about it. And make changes, make changes. You can be the most skilled person in your field but going to tell you if nobody likes you, nobody’s hiring you.
With that in mind, begin to think about who could be a reference for you. Who can actually vouch for you confidently, articulately, and positively? I usually suggest getting a minimum of 3 professional references. Now, ideally, they should be someone you reported to. And, if you find yourself in a sticky situation (and people do) where that might not be a good idea, then it is OK to grab a peer or subordinate who is equally articulate and engaging. Again, you’re just thinking about this right now. Put it on your radar. Unless it comes up, you’re not actually asking these people yet. Just start to develop that lens of analysis of who could vouch for you.
And just one more thing before I move onto the final point here, regarding timelines, once you get that civilian job, it’s highly possible you will not keep that job. Understand that for whatever reason such as offshoring, downsizing, bankruptcies, takeovers, whatever… you’re not going to have a 20- or 25-year contract. Don’t be intimidated by this, but just keep it in mind for longer-term commitments like life plans or it's university fees or mortgages. Expect it. When you expect things, it just mitigates you, you know, ultimately panicking or spinning or getting caught off guard. The average job is, you know, I mean you hear numbers everywhere. It used to be 20, 25, 30 years in the civilian world. I think the last one I read is something like 2.7 years so I just want you to be aware of this.
The 5th and final point I want to make is discussing the most common mistake people make when leaving the military - they don’t have a career plan. Benjamin Franklin said “failing to plan is planning to fail” and he wasn’t wrong. Out of the countless people I’ve conducted client intake interviews with, when I ask them what they want to do next, their response is typically 1 of 2 answers …they either give me a very detailed laundry list of taskings, postings, assignments and roles they filled in the military. Or… they will tell me “Audrey, I’ll do anything”. This is a mistake. As nice and honest as those 2 answers are, that doesn’t tell me what they want to do next, nor is it going to help them as they go through this transition. Newsflash… Just because you’ve always done something, doesn’t mean that’s what you have to do next. Just because you were a leader in the military, doesn’t mean you have to be one in the civilian sector. Maybe you had a tech role in the military and now you’d rather be a tech instructor. Did you love or loathe administration? What about finance… Are you a number cruncher or does the idea of dealing with figures and columns make your head spin? Do you love travelling on the job or are you totally over it? Are you looking to continue the high profile, pressure-driven, senior leadership appointments or are you ready to work behind the scenes? Do you want to be that sage on the stage or do you prefer to be the guide on the side? You have to figure this out. - - - - - and when people say they’ll do anything, I don’t know about you but I’ve never seen a job description that says “we need someone who’s going to do anything”. So, are you saying you want to balance multi-million dollar budgets as – I don’t know – as equally as cleaning toilets, picking apples, hey, taking orders through a drive-through window? Do you want to measure the ink density on a colour bar using a spectrodensitometer in the press room? I mean come on; we can’t be everything to everyone all the time. Just doesn’t work. You give thought to the type of running shoes you want or the phone you want to buy next or a tattoo you want to get or the groceries, the vehicle you buy. Why in the world would you think something as important as a career shouldn’t deserve some focused attention? Look, I know you didn’t necessarily have a choice while you were serving, but you must carve your own path in order to have a successful transition into the civilian sector. When you’re clear with what you’re after, it’s easy to keep your eye on the target as well as for others to know what you want and perhaps even recommend you for opportunities. Specificity is critical. So, let’s flip the script here… if you’re leaving the military and you want a career coach and résumé writer, are you just going to search for “job coach” or are you going to search for – I don’t know – a military civilian career transition specialist coach? Yeah, I thought so. I’m not saying it’s easy to figure out what you want to do. I’m saying find a way to figure it out. Sometimes people need help with this and sometimes they don’t. And the best place to start is to think about what you’re good at and what you enjoy. This will help you narrow down the “what”. Once you know the “what”… that job target, then you can progress to the “how”. People get tripped up when they jump to the “how” when they don’t know the “what”. It’s like getting in a car and starting to drive before you know where you’re going.
Once you figure out what it is you want to do, carefully take steps that only support your goal. A great place to start with the “how” is to mentally cherry pick the experience and skills you gained from your military career that make sense for you personally to showcase moving forward. So, make notes of this well in advance of putting in your release papers. Forget the components of your military life that will not apply to your new career.
Before I finish things up I’ll add… it’s easy to get sidetracked by yourself or friends or family or work colleagues. Stay on course. Don’t let the insecurity, negativity, and personal biases of others influence you because 100%, you are going to face this. I’ve personally never had any time for fear mongering in my life because if I did, I wouldn’t have achieved anything. I’ve always made my mark and found my niche (or niche for our American friends) by doing whatever interested me that other people were either too afraid, too lazy, or unable to do. And you can do that too.
Now, I’ve covered a lot of points here and I want to thank you for hanging in listening to them. Be sure to catch the next episode because I’ll be detailing the “how”.
If you’d like a PDF copy of my book, Military to Civvie Street”, simple e-transfer $20 to audrey.prenzel@gmail.com & I’ll send you the link to download it. Although I’m not writing so much anymore, I am available for 1:1 coaching & advisement to help you achieve your career transition goals. Email me audrey.prenzel@gmail.com. Until our next episode, purposefully take good care of yourself.

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Audrey Prenzel shares her 20+ years of career coaching expertise. She's the master of military to civilian career transitions & entry / progression within police & fire services. Gain insight into cover letters, resumes, interviews, salary negotiation, networking & workplace issue resolution. Canadian military please join FB Group mil2civ.job.insight

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