Liturgical Mysticism Archives - Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts: Recent Episodes
Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts
Episode 6 – The Synergy of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor explore the significance of liturgy in the life of the church and its members. Liturgy should be central to Christian life, rather than overshadowed by other church activities. They cover the formative power of ritual and the necessity of active participation in liturgical practices.
Dr. Fagerberg draws an analogy to illustrate the complexity of theology, describing the difficulty of maintaining a balanced focus on both God and church activities. Liturgical participation, not merely as observers but as active participants, is akin to engaging in a dance with God where He leads, and we follow.
Liturgy is not just a series of actions but a profound encounter with God’s presence, requiring a conscious response from the faithful. This response is characterized by synergy, where God’s grace and human faith work together harmoniously. The conversation also touches on the Catholic belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, emphasizing the incarnational nature of Catholic worship.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:* The difference between being involved with ministry and being consciously present to the mystery of God. * The nature of synergy in regards to liturgy, and in particular the celebration of the mass.
From the discussion with Dr. Fagerberg:
“God plans to be fully, actively, and consciously present in liturgy. That’s His presence from above. What should I do in response? Maybe I should be full, active, conscious response to his presence. That would be a nice filling out of the idea of participation because participation doesn’t mean activity that I generate. Participation is my response to his presence. He’s full, active, consciously present. I’m full, actively, consciously responding.
The Greek word for that is synergy, S Y N E R G Y. And syn means “together”,enérgeia means an energy or an activity at work. Here are two examples. One of them is synergy. One of them is not synergy. Mom is coming. The apartment is a mess. You clean up that room. I’ll clean up this room. Together, they cleaned up the apartment. The second, example is in order to have fire, you must have matter, spark, and oxygen. They have to operate together. The first example is just two people doing an activity at the same time. In the second example, the one makes possible the other makes it occur. Well, synergy is that second example. It’s co operatio (co-operate), synergy. God’s graces and we faith. God energizes and we synergize. He takes the lead in the ballroom dancing and we follow. We co-operate. Well, that leads me to suppose that it’s not a matter of laity co-operating with the clergy. Rather laity and clergy should co-operate the liturgy which is occurring at this moment. And in our liturgy, the human liturgy, the liturgy of the Church, it is a cooperation with the full, active and conscious presence of God. He makes himself present. We make this response.”
Discerning Hearts Reflection Questions1. Prioritizing Liturgy in Church Activities: How can we ensure that our involvement in church activities does not overshadow the central importance of the liturgy? 2. Active Participation in Mass: In what ways can we move from being passive observers to active participants during the Mass? 3. Balancing Church Involvement and Worship: How do we find the balance between being active in church life and maintaining a focus on the worship of God? 4. Understanding Liturgical Synergy: How can we better understand and embrace the concept of synergy in our liturgical participation? 5. Encountering God in the Liturgy: How do we experience and respond to God’s presence during the liturgy, both in the Eucharist and in the assembly of believers? 6. Liturgy as a Daily Practice: How can the principles and actions of the liturgy influence and be reflected in our daily lives? 7. Responsibility and Obligation in Worship: What are our responsibilities and obligations in worship, and how can we fulfill them more fully? 8. Incarnational Worship: How does the incarnational nature of Catholic worship affect our understanding and practice of the liturgy?
For more podcast episodes of this series visit the Pathways to Sacred Mysteries w/Dr. David Fagerberg page
David W. Fagerberg is Professor in the Department of Theology at the University of Notre Dame. He holds masters degrees from Luther Northwestern Seminary, St. John’s University (Collegeville), Yale Divinity School, and Yale University. His Ph.D. is from Yale University in liturgical theology.
Fagerberg’s work has explored how the Church’s lex credendi (law of belief) is founded upon the Church’s lex orandi (law of prayer). This was expressed in Theologia Prima (Hillenbrand Books, 2003). He has integrated into this the Eastern Orthodox understanding of asceticism by considering its role in preparing the liturgical person. This was treated in On Liturgical Asceticism (Catholic University Press, 2013). And these two themes come together in Consecrating the World: On Mundane Liturgical Theology (Angelico Press, 2016).
He also has an avocation in G. K. Chesterton, having published Chesterton is Everywhere (Emmaus Press, 2013) and The Size of Chesterton’s Catholicism (University of Notre Dame, 1998).
Here are a few of Dr. Fagerberg’s books: The post PSM6 – The Synergy of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 12 – The Two Liturgies: External and Internal – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg, Ph.D.Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss “the two liturgies,” the external and internal action of the Eucharist.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
- The Noetic faculty in the heart (meaning perception of the heart)
- Hesychia – stilleness, rest, quiet, silence
From the discussion with Dr. Fagerberg:
I’m looking for a quote, it’s from a contemporary Orthodox Metropolitan named Hierotheos, and he says, if the noetic faculty in the heart is operating, then we can come in contact with, what he calls, a second liturgy, “something happens that seems strange to most people, but is natural for those who consciously practice hesychia.” This is a silence, contemplative. “Although they are present at the Divine Eucharist and are aware through their senses and their reason of everything going on,” those are the first two faculties that I identified, “they’re listening at the same time to the noetic faculty in the heart where the Holy Spirit praises without ceasing. Lord Jesus Christ’s son of God have mercy on me.”
In other words, there are two liturgies. One is the external liturgy of the Divine Eucharist, where the bread and wine are changed into the body and blood of Christ in the Holy Spirit. The other is the inner liturgy or Eucharist, where they experience uncreated worship and the spiritual priest of divine grace celebrates. There’s no break between the two liturgies. Both are accomplished with full awareness. The Holy Spirit changes the bread and wine into Christ’s body and blood, and the same Holy Spirit activates noetic prayer on the altar of the heart.
Well, by talking about aestheticism and mysticism, my purpose has been to try to make us think about… That sounds like I just denied everything I’ve been saying. I’m trying to make us think about something, make us think about this synergy going on, and I am trying to make us think about it. I’m writing books about Mrs. Murphy. I don’t want her to read them, but I write about Mrs. Murphy for my colleagues. So that my colleagues, I made a sweeping gesture to mean the academic world, so that they don’t look down their noses at Mrs. Murphy. My lesson from Aidan Kavanagh and the thesis is that Mrs. Murphy is a true theologian and I’m making an apologetic for her.
For more podcast episodes of this series, visit the Pathways to Sacred Mysteries w/Dr. David Fagerberg page
David W. Fagerberg is a Professor in the Department of Theology at the University of Notre Dame. He holds master’s degrees from Luther Northwestern Seminary, St. John’s University (Collegeville), Yale Divinity School, and Yale University. His Ph.D. is from Yale University in liturgical theology.
Fagerberg’s work has explored how the Church’s lex credendi (law of belief) is founded upon the Church’s lex orandi (law of prayer). This was expressed in Theologia Prima (Hillenbrand Books, 2003). He has integrated into this the Eastern Orthodox understanding of asceticism by considering its role in preparing the liturgical person. This was treated in On Liturgical Asceticism (Catholic University Press, 2013). And these two themes come together in Consecrating the World: On Mundane Liturgical Theology (Angelico Press, 2016).
He also has an avocation in G. K. Chesterton, having published Chesterton is Everywhere (Emmaus Press, 2013) and The Size of Chesterton’s Catholicism (University of Notre Dame, 1998).
Here are a few of Dr. Fagerberg’s books:
The post PSM12 – The Two Liturgies: External and Internal – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 11 – Ascetical Struggle and a Mystical Joy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg, Ph.D.Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss the chronological and kairos nature of time and its dimensions in the liturgy, particularly on Sunday.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
- The definition of liturgy: Liturgy is the perichoresis of the Trinity kenotically extended to invite our synergistic ascent into deification.
From the discussion with Dr. Fagerberg:
This is why it’s important for worshiping on Sunday, the Lord’s Day for the Lord’s people in the Lord’s house at the Lord’s table. Sunday is this eighth day, the day of the resurrection. After six days of creation, got rested on the seventh, and when humanity fell into sin, God had to act again. So Sunday, the day of resurrection, is like one more day in the Book of Genesis being added as an appendix. And Taft says to anyone beginning the study of Sunday, “The initial impression is one of confusion.” Sunday is the first day, the day of creation, the day of light, the day of the new time. I think it’s just named the cosmic dimensions of Sunday, but it’s also the last day, the eighth day, the day beyond the days, the day of Jubilee, the day of the end time.
Now he has named the eschatological dimensions of Sunday. It’s the day of the resurrection, the day of the post-resurrection appearances and meals. Watch for that in the scripture readings eight days later on Sunday. It’s the day of the descent of the Spirit and the day of the ascension. These are the historical Jesus days.
And then, he gives finally the ecclesiological church meanings. The day of the assembly, the day of the Eucharist, the day of baptism, the day of ordinations. Until one asks, “Is there anything Sunday doesn’t mean?” And the answer of course, is no. For the early Church Sunday was indeed everything. The symbolic day, a sign of the time of the church between ascension and parousia, the time in which we are living now, it’s the day symbolic of all days for… And here’s the quote, which I stumbled on in our earlier conversation so I can slip it in here. “It’s a day symbolic of all days for the purpose of all Christian liturgy is to express in a ritual moment that which should be the basic stance of every moment of our lives.”
Once a year you celebrate a birthday in a ritual way, but that doesn’t mean you don’t love your kid for the other 364 days. Once a week, you enter into this Eucharistic uplift and twist with God, but that doesn’t mean you forget about him for the other days of the week. What you do on Sunday morning should be an expression of the basic stance of every day, of every hour, of every moment. Well, that seems to me like an ascetical struggle and a mystical joy.
For more podcast episodes of this series, visit the Pathways to Sacred Mysteries w/Dr. David Fagerberg page
David W. Fagerberg is a Professor in the Department of Theology at the University of Notre Dame. He holds master’s degrees from Luther Northwestern Seminary, St. John’s University (Collegeville), Yale Divinity School, and Yale University. His Ph.D. is from Yale University in liturgical theology.
Fagerberg’s work has explored how the Church’s lex credendi (law of belief) is founded upon the Church’s lex orandi (law of prayer). This was expressed in Theologia Prima (Hillenbrand Books, 2003). He has integrated into this the Eastern Orthodox understanding of asceticism by considering its role in preparing the liturgical person. This was treated in On Liturgical Asceticism (Catholic University Press, 2013). And these two themes come together in Consecrating the World: On Mundane Liturgical Theology (Angelico Press, 2016).
He also has an avocation in G. K. Chesterton, having published Chesterton is Everywhere (Emmaus Press, 2013) and The Size of Chesterton’s Catholicism (University of Notre Dame, 1998).
Here are a few of Dr. Fagerberg’s books:
The post PSM11 – Ascetical Struggle and a Mystical Joy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 10 – The Inward then Outward, Upward then Downward Movement of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D. Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss the Anabatic and Katabatic movements of the liturgy. Here are some of the topics explored in this episode: From the discussion with Dr. Fagerberg: ... Read more
The post PSM10 – The Inward then Outward, Upward then Downward Movement of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 3 - Living Mystery in the Mundane - Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss how "mundane" liturgical theology consecrates the world and sanctifies our daily life.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
What is a "mundane" liturgical theology? The call to holiness is here and now. How the Church serves a Mother. Why liturgy? Why worship? Why are we called?
The post PSM3 – Living Mystery in the Mundane – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 2 - Liturgy as the Mystical Encounter - Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss liturgy as the mystical encounter with our spouse, with our bridegroom Christ
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
What melody is this liturgy supposed to be creating?
What is Liturgical Asceticism?
The influence of the Desert Fathers and St. Benedict of Nursia.
Who's liturgy should we be doing on Sunday morning?
Whose liturgy should we be doing in our lives?
The post PSM2 – Liturgy as the Mystical Encounter – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 1 - The River of the Liturgy - Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor begin this 16 episode series that explores various aspects of Liturgical Theology.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
What is "liturgy"?
What is "mysticism"?
The significance of baptism.
Understanding "teleology". What's the telos of a human being?
Understanding the connection between the interior heart personal liturgy and the exterior sacramental public liturgy
The post PSM1 – The River of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 9 - The Liturgical Bridge to Mystery - Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss the "stages" of the spiritual journey and the vices which hinder growth in holiness.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
- Praktike (purgation), Physike (illumination), and Theologia (union with God)
The post PSM9 – The Liturgical Bridge to Mystery – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss our baptism and the meaning of "mystagogy."
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
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What is it to live the liturgy?
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What occurs at our baptism?
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What is our role true role in the liturgical celebration?
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What is the nature of "mystagogy?
The post PSM8 – The Life of Mystagogy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss a "thicker" definition of liturgy.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
Liturgy is the perichoresis of the Trinity kenotically extended to invite our synergistic ascent into deification.
The difference between being involved with ministry and being consciously present to the mystery of God.
The nature of synergy in regards to liturgy, and in particular the celebration of the mass.
The post PSM7 – The Definition of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 6 - The Mystery of Liturgical Synergy - Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss what is meant by full and active participation in the liturgy.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
The difference between being involved with ministry and being consciously present to the mystery of God.
The nature of synergy in regards to liturgy, and in particular the celebration of the mass.
The post PSM6 – The Synergy of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss the mystical participation of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the liturgy.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode: What is the relationship between Mary and the liturgy of the Church? What is Liturgical Dogma? Why is dogma important? What is the authentic nature of "full and active participation"?
The post PSM5 – The Marian Mystery and the Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.
Episode 3 - Living Mystery in the Mundane - Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg Ph.D.
Dr. David Fagerberg and Kris McGregor discuss how "mundane" liturgical theology consecrates the world and sanctifies our daily life.
Here are some of the topics explored in this episode:
What is a "mundane" liturgical theology? The call to holiness is here and now. How the Church serves a Mother. Why liturgy? Why worship? Why are we called?
The post PSM4 – The Form of Liturgy – Pathway to Sacred Mysteries with Dr. David Fagerberg – Discerning Hearts Podcast appeared first on Discerning Hearts Catholic Podcasts.