Secondary Rules: Recent Episodes
Ryan Goss, Joshua Neoh
Ever wondered about the relationship between legal theory and public law? Join legal scholars Ryan Goss and Joshua Neoh as they discuss how law is theorised and interacts with the government in their weekly podcast, Secondary Rules.
Ryan and Joshua are both associate professors at The Australian National University (ANU) College of Law, teaching Australian Public Law and Legal Theory respectively. Whether you're a law student or just somebody interested in better understanding how our laws are made, Secondary Rules is a must-listen podcast.
This week’s ‘big idea’ is ‘The Rule of Law’: Joshua and Ryan thinking about chickens and ducks, the laws of cricket, and the mafia; and Joshua offers a few gratuitous reflections on the French.
Further reading for this week:
- Waldron on the rule of law
- Lisa Burton Crawford on the rule of law
- Lon Fuller on King Rex
- Remembering Prof Gardner (1965-2019)
Learn more about ANU Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law and the ANU Centre for Learning and Teaching. The ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
Secondary Rules returns for a new season! This week, our ‘big idea’ is ‘The People’: Joshua and Ryan thinking about revolutions in France, the US and beyond; why it’s a bad idea to make big decisions on an empty stomach; and how everything comes back to the Parting of the Red Sea.
For more, check out:
Hannah Arendt (1963)
Independence National Historic Park, Pennsylvania
Learn more about ANU Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law and the ANU Centre for Learning and Teaching. The ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
Here’s the long-awaited trailer for the third season of ANU Law’s Secondary Rules podcast — coming soon!
Make sure you’re following or subscribed so you get the new episodes as soon as they land. Catch up on our back catalogue at https://secondary-rules.simplecast.com
Secondary Rules is hosted by ANU Law's Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss. Learn more about ANU Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law and the ANU Centre for Learning and Teaching. The ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
How a conversation at James Cook University led to the most momentous decision in Australian legal history.
- Read the judgment
- Watch the movie (only accessible via ABC iView in Australia)
- Read an interview with Mabo counsel, Ron Castan
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
Water under the bridge, and judges kissing babies, in this episode of Secondary Rules. What business do Courts have thinking about socio-economic rights? Can a Constitution transform a society, and can litigation safeguard a democracy? All this and more as we consider the right to water in the Constitutional Court of South Africa.
- Mazibuko v City of Johannesburg [2009] ZACC 28
- Constitution of the Republic of South Africa(1996)
- Couzens, ‘Avoiding Mazibuko’(2016)
- Dugard and Mohlakoana ‘More work for women : a rights-based analysis of women's access to basic services in South Africa’(2009)
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
The trial that changed the world. A Jewish rabble-rouser came face-to-face with a provincial Roman governor. He was hanged. But his death was not the end. It was just the beginning. Spikenard not included.
- For a cosmic interpretation, see Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ (2004).
- For a comic interpretation, see Monty Python’s Life of Brian(1979).
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
‘Directly chosen’ for your enjoyment, this week we look at a case about free speech in a democratic society (and Joshua is a harsh marker of Ryan’s work), all of it ‘unaccompanied by moving images or other vocal sounds’.
- ACTV v Cth(1992)
- “Whither the Implied Freedom of Political Communication?” (2022 paper) Nettle J
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
Long live the common law! This week we look at the fascinating Malaysian Federal Court decision in Indira Gandhi v Director of the Islamic Department.
- Indira Gandhi v Director of the Islamic Department(2018, Federal Court of Malaysia)
- J Neoh, Legitimacy of the Common Law in Post-Colonial Malaysia [2010] LAWASIA 59
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
Bonjour et bienvenue: how do you change the way a constitution changes, without being sure how to change the constitution? In each episode of Season 2, we tell the story of a great landmark court decision from around the world. This week we look at the fascinating Supreme Court of Canada decision in the Patriation Reference (1981).
- Patriation Reference(Re Resolution to amend the Constitution)(SCC, 1981)
- The Constitution Acts(1867, 1982)
- Ahmed, Albert & Perryarticle (2019)
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
Ginger beer, the 'nauseating sight' of a snail, the Good Samaritan, and the genius of the common law: it’s all here in the House of Lords’ decision in Donoghue v Stevenson [1932] AC 562.
- Donoghue v Stevenson (1932)
- Justice Keane on the great Queenslander, Lord Atkin (2017)
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
In each episode of Season 2, we’ll tell the story of a great landmark court decision from Australia or around the world. This week: terrorism on the streets of Gibraltar and the right to life, in the European Court of Human Rights' decision in McCann and Others v United Kingdom (21 ECHR 97 GC).
- McCann v UK (1995)
- European Convention on Human Rights
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
This week, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss delve deep into one of the most pivotal cases in American legal history: Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483 (1954). Discover how the case forever changed the landscape of education and civil rights in the United States through its ruling that state laws establishing racial segregation in public schools are unconstitutional.
- Brown 1
- Brown 2
- Plessy
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
This week, on a special mini episode of Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about the Coronation of Australia’s Head of State, King Charles III, which takes place abroad this weekend. Further reading:
- House of Commons Library Guide to the Coronation (2023)
- Australia and the Coronation (Prime Minister and Cabinet)
- Coronation Quiche
- The Coronation Cases of 1902
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to the ANU College of Law Marketing and Communications team. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to elders past and present.
This week on the last Secondary Rules for 2022, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk Revelation, revolutions, recidivism, and Rishi.
Remember to take our survey!
- Revelation (c AD 95)
- Garlett v WA (2022)
- Joshua’s new book!
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk dual-citizenship and the stripping of “foreign fighters” citizenship, the decline and fall of Liz Truss, and torture in an age of terror.
Take our survey!
- Alexander [2022] HCA 19
- Bybee Memo (1 Aug 2002)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk panopticon and the pandemic, how we get our High Court judges, and offer some generalisations about French philosophers and the US Senate.
- Ethics Explainer: The Panopticon
- Port Arthur ‘Separate Prison’ panopticon
- Prof Andrew Lynch on judicial appointments reform (AusPubLaw)
- English Judicial Appointments Commission
- Keane laments exit after ‘wonderful’ innings on High Court (AFR)
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, an unprecedented Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss discussion about precedent, when Courts change their minds, and how legal systems sit alongside one another. Thrown in along the way: a dramatic HCA transcript reenactment and a look at upcoming US Supreme Court cases.
- Williams (No 1)(2012)
- 2nd Territory Senators Case (1977)
- Labor drops Coalition bid to overturn high court ruling (2022)
- US Supreme Court’s Big New Term (2022)
- Judicial Committee of the Privy Council
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Learn more about the ANU College of Law here. Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law. ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about Pape & the Pope: how law is like scripture, who gets to decide when there is an emergency, and Justice Jayne Jagot.
- Neoh, Law, Love, and Freedom (2019)
- Martin Luther’s 95 Theses (1517)
- Pape (2009)
- Belmarsh Case (2004)
- Appointment of Justice Jagotovens on accountability (2007)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss discuss the theatrical spectacle of Question Time and its constitutional purpose, and activate book club mode to think about why law is like a novel.
- Bovens on accountability (2007)
- Dworkin on Law as Interpretation (1982)
- Cooper v Stuart (1889, UKPC)
- Mabo (No 2) (1992, HCA)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about the Britishness (or Australianness) of the monarchy, cash and coins, and reflect a little on why public law matters.
- Minister Andrew Leigh, Interview with Patricia Karvelas, RN Breakfast, ABC, 13 Sept
- PA Keane, In Celebration of the Constitution (2008)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about the monarchy, the Queen, the King, and reflect on why legal theory matters.
- Prime Minister’s Statement on the Passing of HM The Queen
- Succession to the Throne
- 'London Bridge is down': the secret plan for the days after the Queen’s death (Sam Knight, The Guardian, March 2017)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about why we ought to obey the law, the interaction between law and morality, the Territories as ‘constitutional teenagers’, and why this is (probably) the nation’s preeminent weekly territory-law podcast.
- Hart in the Harvard Law Review (1958)
- Fuller in the Harvard Law Review (1958)
- First Territory Senators Case (1975)
- Rubenstein, It’s time to give the ACT and NT stronger voices in parliament (15 Aug)
- Alicia Payne and Luke Gosling's territory euthanasia rights debate to start in Senate (Canberra Times, 31 August)
- The Constitution
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about parliamentary sovereignty, the latest on Scott Morrison’s secret ministries, what H.L.A. Hart had to say about Joshua’s driving, and why this podcast is called Secondary Rules in the first place.
- Goss, What Do Australians Talk About When They Talk About ‘Parliamentary Sovereignty’?
- Dicey, Introduction to the study of the law of the constitution
- Solicitor-General’s Opinion, August 2022.
- Hart, The Concept of Law
- Green and Adams, "Legal Positivism", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Winter 2019)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about Rousseau’s views on rabbits, the Governor-General, and Scott Morrison’s secret ministries.
- Rousseau: ”A Discourse Upon The Origin And The Foundation Of The Inequality Among Mankind”
- Neoh: “Law, love, and freedom”
- Prof Anne Twomey: “Explainer: Scott Morrison was sworn in to several portfolios other than prime minister during the pandemic. How can this be done?”
- ABC interview with Prof Luke Beck: “Unanswered questions in Morrison ministerial controversy - ABC Radio National”
- Beck: “Parliament must act to ensure Australia never has ‘secret ministers’ again”
- UNSW Gilbert + Tobin Centre for Constitutional Law: Video of expert panel on the current constitutional issues surrounding former Prime Minister Scott Morrison
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about voting rights under the Constitution (should 6-year-olds have the vote?), Prince Charles’ qualifications to be our next Head of State, and look at why Hobbes thought none of us can sleep soundly.
- Roach v Electoral Commissioner [2007] HCA 43
- ANU, "Experts call to lower voting age to 16"
- Runciman "Votes for children! Why we should lower the voting age to six"
- "Votes for corporations and extra votes for property owners: why local council elections are undemocratic"
- "Donations scandals call into question judgement of Prince Charles"
- Hobbes' Leviathan (ch 13)
- "Thomas Hobbes" (Oxford Dictionary of National Biography)
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about law and forgiveness in the ancient Greek plays of the Oresteia; federalism in the age of Covid; and touch on the PM’s speech about a referendum on the Voice.
- Paul Gewirtz, Aeschylus' Law
- Script of Aeschylus' Eumenides (final play in the Oresteia, 458 BCE)
- de Tocqueville on federalism
- The PM’s Address to the Garma Festival last weekend
- Indigenous Voice Co-design Process, Final Report to the Australian Government, July 2021
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
This week on Secondary Rules, Joshua Neoh and Ryan Goss talk about constitutionalism, constitutional change, and the crafty serpent in the Garden of Eden.
Waluchow on Constitutionalism
Extract from the book of Genesis
If you're a student in Australian Public Law or Legal Theory this semester, more available on the course WATTLE sites.
Interested in starting your own law studies or learning more about our legal research? Learn more here.
Our thanks to Jack O’Brien, Tom Fearon, and the ANU College of Law for their production of the podcast. Our theme music is by Soul Shifters.
ANU acknowledges and celebrates the First Australians on whose traditional lands we meet, and pays our respect to Elders past and present.
It's here! Welcome to Secondary Rules, a new podcast presented by Associate Professors Ryan Goss and Joshua Neoh. Listen as they preview what you can expect each week as they unpack timely developments in Australian public law and legal theory.