The Bilateral is designed to shed light on issues of interest to the Canada-China business community, to highlight some of the interesting work CCBC’s members are doing, and to help our Canadian audience better understand what is happening in China today from a business perspective.
In this episode of The Bilateral, we hear from Stuart Mercier, former Managing Partner of Strategic Initiatives, Real Estate at Brookfield Asset Management and a member of the CCBC Board of Directors. Brookfield was a Gold Award winner in the sustainability category at CCBC’s 8th Business Excellence Awards in 2022. With the nomination process for the 9th Business Excellence Awards now open, we wanted to highlight Brookfield as a notable recipient from the previous round.
In this insightful conversation, Mr. Mercier discusses Brookfield’s ESG initiatives and investments in renewable energy in China, and he reflects on the significant growth he has witnessed in Shanghai over the past decade.
In this episode of The Bilateral, we explore cognitive empathy — understanding how the other side thinks — in Canada-China business relations. We've seen how strained bilateral relations and limited government interactions have led to misunderstandings. Western media can often portray a one-sided view of China, missing the nuances necessary for a full understanding. Our focus in this episode is on building a deeper understanding and appreciation of another's perspective and feelings.
We welcome our guests, the Honourable Martin Cauchon, former Minister of Justice, counsel at DS Lawyers Canada LLP, and Vice-Chair of the CCBC Board of Directors, and Henry Liu, Vice-President at Power Corporation of Canada. Mr. Cachon also chairs the CCBC Quebec Chapter Advisory Council, where Mr. Liu is a member. Both bring valuable insights from their extensive Canada-China experience as we examine the political and trade angles of the current bilateral relationship.
In this second episode of a two-part series exploring the intricacies of intellectual property (IP) protection amidst China's evolving digital landscape, we hear from Brent Arnold, Partner, at Gowling WLG. Brent will provide an overview of new data protection laws and regulations, and highlight several case studies on data ownership and transfer.
If you missed it, we recommend you listen to our previous episode for Part 1 on IP protection and registration in China with Jason Yang, Associate, Patent Agent at Gowling WLG.
Thank you to CanExport Associations for its support.
(0:38) Legal frameworks affecting international business relations between Canada and China
(1:19) China's new digital IP and data regulations and their significance for international businesses
(2:53) Data Security Law (DSL) and Personal Information Protection Law (PIPL)
(8:39) Comparing DSL and PIPL, their scopes and legal requirements
(17:16) Impact of DSL on businesses in China; compliance requirements
(25:19) PIPL for international companies
(31:28) Thank you and closing
In this first episode of a two-part series exploring the intricacies of intellectual property (IP) protection amidst China's evolving digital landscape, we hear from Jason Yang, Associate, Patent Agent, at Gowling WLG. Jason will guide us through the nuances of trademark registration, offer strategic insights into patent protection, and share a few case studies on enforcement and litigation.
Tune into Part 2 of this discussion, slated for release mid-May, where we'll further examine China's emerging digital IP and data regime with Brent Arnold, Partner, Gowling WLG.
Thank you to CanExport Associations for its support.
Welcome back, Bilateral listeners! Get ready for Season 2 of The Bilateral with Sarah Kutulakos and our new co-host, David Perez-Des Rosiers. David is moving from Quebec, Canada, to Beijing, China, next week and we're looking forward to his firsthand perspective on China's dynamic landscape. And with David as our resident CCBC Francophone, we're delighted to announce we'll be offering more French episodes this season.
Tune in to discover the exciting topics we'll cover this season.
Keep up with The Bilateral by following us on our social channels (LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram) and if you haven't already, please subscribe so you'll know exactly when new episodes drop.
The Bilateralis proud to present its first-ever podcast episode in French. We are excited to welcome Vivian Desmonts, a Partner at Gowling WLG, who joins us from Guangzhou to discuss his extensive experience as a lawyer in China spanning over two decades.
In this episode, Vivian covers a wide range of topics, starting with an update on the COVID situation in China and briefly compares the response of North American and European businesses to China’s post-pandemic reopening. The conversation also delves into the evolution of data and IP protection laws in China, two hot topics at the moment. Along the way, Vivian shares some intriguing anecdotes with David Perez-Des Rosiers, CCBC Deputy Director of the Quebec Chapter.
This episode is sponsored by Gowling WLG.
The Bilateral is delighted to welcome Jacob Cooke, Co-Founder and CEO of WPIC Marketing + Technologies, who joins us in Beijing to discuss his nearly 20 years as an entrepreneur in China. WPIC won Gold in the Exceptional SME category.
Jacob and his organization have grown from a fledgling tech startup in China to serving major multinationals from around the world with their in-house expertise and native big data analytics for China’s e-commerce landscape. In this wide-ranging talk, he discusses WPIC’s incredible growth story, his views on the Chinese consumer mindset post-COVID, new adaptations in retail, case studies in fintech and logistics, and much more with The Bilateral co-host Noah Fraser, CCBC Managing Director, China.
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by SnapPay.
Our next episode in the awards miniseries is with Tianpeng WANG, Founder of Trustiics RealTime Global Counsel, Silver winner in the Exceptional SME category. Trustiics, which is kind of like Uber for legal services, helps SMEs affordably navigate legal services. Trustiics works as a one-stop solution for SMEs to get connected with trusted lawyers in China and other overseas markets. It is the world’s first online platform connecting international businesses with pre-vetted English-speaking lawyers in China. It allows SMEs to mitigate their business and legal risk, expand and grow in international markets, and reduce legal expenses.
Key takeaways from Tianpeng:
Tianpeng’s China recommendations:
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by SnapPay.
The latest in our awards miniseries is Bright Mega Capital Corporation, Bronze winner in the Outstanding Member category. This episode features Sarah’s conversation with Bright Mega’s president, Toronto-based Bernard HE Jun, who describes the unique role Bright Mega plays in delivering Canadian products into the hands of China’s middle class consumers. Key takeaways from Bernard:
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by SnapPay.
China is on a globally unprecedented mission: to green its economy, to broadly increase quality of life for its citizens, and to create a sophisticated, fair and modern market for business. At the macro level, these goals would inspire increased confidence from most foreign executives seeking to trade and invest in this complex landscape – but what are the on-the-ground commercial implications for companies operating in these shifting tides?
CCBC and PwC China have co-authored a report which seeks to unravel that question through the lens of Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) guidance for Canadian organizations in China. Tune in to the latest episode of The Bilateral with co-host Noah Fraser, Managing Director, China, CCBC for a discussion of the findings of this critical research with co-author Callum Douglas, Beijing-based director of ESG for China and APAC for PwC.
To wrap up our three-part miniseries on the 14th Five-Year Plan, CCBC Managing Director China Noah Fraser interviews his counterparts at the US-China Business Council (USCBC) and China Britain Business Council (CBBC) — Matt Margulies, Senior Vice President, China, USCBC, and Tom Simpson, Managing Director and Chief Representative, CBBC — on the eve of the conclusion of the Two Sessions or “lianghui.” The conversation dives into the parallels and divergences between our three bilateral relationships, and move into practical takeaways from the five-year plan and the Two Sessions, including the real meaning behind those GDP growth targets, foreign investment negative lists, financial market liberalization and much more.
This three-part miniseries is sponsored by Neo Performance Materials.
Next in our awards miniseries is Viva Naturals, Silver winner in the Outstanding Member category. This episode features Sarah Kutulakos’ conversation with Candice Yin, who handles China e-commerce for Viva Naturals, a Toronto-based provider of vitamins, supplements, and wellness products. Viva was established in 2011 and started exporting to China via cross-border e-commerce in 2017. The company’s growth has been amazing.
Key takeaways from Candice:
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by SnapPay.
Next in our Business Excellence Awards miniseries is Canada Goose, Gold winner in the Outstanding Member category. This episode features a conversation between CCBC Vice Chair Scott Brison and Dani Reiss, President and CEO of Canada Goose, at CCBC’s AGM Business Forum in the fall of 2021. Scott and Dani cover a variety of interesting topics, including:
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by SnapPay.
Radley Mackenzie is the founder of SinoSports Development in Toronto, which received the Bronze Award in the education category at CCBC’s 2020 Business Excellence Awards. SinoSports combines education and sports, arranging camps, coaching, and recruitment of Chinese athletes to Canadian private schools.
Key takeaways from Radley:
Rapid-Fire Questions:
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by SnapPay.
Cyndi McLeod, CEO, Canada, for Global University Systems, was CCBC’s 5 at 50 winner in the Alumni category. Cyndi is an expert in strategic international partnerships and international education, and she has worked in both public and private education. Cyndi started engaging in China early, leading the way in British Columbia’s international education efforts back in 1999.
Highlights from Sarah’s conversation with Cyndi:
• Among her favourite exchange programs: training of Chinese respiratory therapists and of front-line customer services service employees for the 2008 Beijing Olympics.
• Cyndi has also been an education entrepreneur, including in early childhood education. She mentions the different clockspeed of Chinese entrepreneurs – in edtech, for example, if you can’t deliver a return in two months, it won’t work.
• Shifts in government priorities have a big impact on all levels of education. There is an ebb and flow of freedom versus control as industries evolve. You have to anticipate changes and stay ahead of them.
• She misses trade missions and describes how she used them to build bridges with Chinese and Canadian colleagues. You need to have a really good interpreter to help you get the most of these. Cyndi also recalls the 2019 CCBC Women’s Mission and its visit to Shanghai Disney.
• How to transition seamlessly between cultures. She’s had great Chinese mentors and staff around her. They were especially helpful in helping her understand government policy in her sector.
• She talks about the most unique foods she’s had to eat in China, and that while she always drank her own baijiu at banquets, there is definitely less social drinking than in the past. It was always a good source of laughter and camaraderie.
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by Manulife.
**Joe Ng, Founder and Chairman of The JNE Group of Companies, is a winner in CCBC’s 5 at 50 Entrepreneurs category. He founded Joe Ng Engineering in 1980, offering engineering design and consulting services to large steel companies in North America. When the steel industry went into a rut during the 1982 recession, he had to look elsewhere for business and explored China’s potential.
Key takeaways from Joe:• His 1982 visit to China was a small step that ballooned into three 10-year expansion plans over 30 years. He noticed China’s Five-Year Plan but figured his company was too small for five-year plans, thus the 10-year plans.• His first 10 years involved matching China’s needs with Canada’s capabilities, making use of Canadian factories idled by the recession by moving them to China. This involved taking apart a plant in one country and reassembling it in another. All three plants are still in operation.• In his second 10 years, he worked on infrastructure projects enabled by Canadian development financing – projects that brought benefit to Canada by requiring purchases of Canadian products.• As China developed, its needs changed, and in the third 10-year plan, he found a need for Canadian project management on Chinese-led international projects. Canadian engineers could communicate and better understand safety and process requirements.• How to develop good business relationships (and not drink too much maotai) – JNE became well-known for only accepting projects that yielded adequate return. This earned him the respect of his counterparts. It’s crucial to really understand your bottom line going in. Don’t fall into a trap of losing money the first time; there will be no second time.• Philanthropy he’s most proud of – endowing the JNE Chair of Infrastructure Design at McMaster University.**
Ron Ball is a winner in CCBC’s 5 at 50 Entrepreneurs category. Now retired, Ron founded the Escalator Handrail Company, later renamed EHC Global, in 1977 in Oshawa, ON, with only one employee, and his success sets a great example of how dedication and commitment can contribute to the Canada-China relationship. In 2018, Ron became one of the few Canadians to receive the prestigious Shanghai Municipal Government Magnolia Silver Award.
Highlights from Sarah’s conversation with Ron:
• Any of our listeners who have been to China know just how many escalators there are (and thus how many handrails are needed). Big drivers of demand for escalators: malls and transit (bus stations, airports, subway systems). EHC’s expansion into China in the 1990s was a classic case of following customers into the market. Now 75% of the world’s elevators and escalators are built in China. EHC is a mid-size global company, with operations in 15 countries and manufacturing in Canada, Germany and China. 60% of global sales are at EHC’s Shanghai operation.
• When the Asian financial crisis hit in 1997, Ron moved to China to take charge there, but EHC’s headquarters stayed in Canada. Ron remained living in China for more than 20 years. Even though the market shifted to China, Canada benefited greatly by this arrangement, with stable employment in Oshawa, ON, including keeping the R&D operation at headquarters. Early in the Canadian operation EHC exported a lot, especially specialty items. Keeping R&D in Oshawa was partly for intellectual property (IP) reasons but also because Canada has better engineers.
• Ron attributes his success as a CEO in China to having strong soft skills – it’s important to be tolerant, patient, and open-minded.
• EHC was afraid of having its IP stolen in China, but that didn’t happen. Why? At first they only brought in old technology; it wasn’t until 12 years ago that EHC brought its best technology to China. When it did, EHC took critical steps – setting up a separate manufacturing plant site with a cadre of employees who had been with the company for more than 5 years, having a high level of security, and being very careful with documentation. Raw material shipments were sent first to a separate warehouse where all identifying information was stripped off. They also gave confidentiality bonuses – 20% pay increase, identified as a confidentiality bonus, so that it would have merit in labour court in China.
• EHC’s company culture has been a huge strength. What does EHC do differently than a typical Chinese company? EHC has strong HR leadership, pays well (not exorbitantly), treats people well, and this results in much lower turnover than average. The factory is highly effective and efficient – equal to or leading their global operations. They treat people like family, and they respond with loyalty.
• Advice to a company considering doing business in/with China today? Ensure there is a market for your product in China. Don’t look for low cost labour. Hire good advisors (accounting, legal, etc.).
• Ron describes the COVID-19 quarantine experience in returning to China last year.
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by Manulife.
Jennifer Fang, Managing Partner, Highnoon Capital & Consulting Inc, is CCBC’s 5 at 50 winner in the Immigrant category. Jennifer has long and deep business experience helping multinationals in China (GM, JP Morgan & Chase, BMO, PwC), and has devoted her career to facilitating the two-way capital, people and business collaborations between Canada and China. Key takeaways from Sarah’s conversation with Jennifer:
Hon. Jack Austin is the Lifetime Achievement Award winner in CCBC’s 5 at 50 initiative. Jack’s nomination describes him as “likely the longest serving person in both public and private life in building Canada’s modern relationship to China,” active in one or more capacities from 1970 to the present time. He has done so in four different domains: diplomacy and government, legal practice, corporate leadership, and academic leadership.
Key takeaways from Jack:
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by Manulife.
Ching TIEN received CCBC’s 5 at 50 award in the Women’s category. Ching is the founder of Educating Girls of Rural China, a charity with the philosophy that educating women is the fundamental way to alleviate poverty and make better societies. EGRC has sponsored >1300 girls and young women to complete their high school and university education. Key takeaways from Ching:• The changing nature of philanthropy in China since Ching started EGRC in 2005.• How things are changing in far-flung places like Gansu. China’s poverty reduction measures are especially obvious in the past few years, and while the urban/rural gap still persists, all boats are rising.• Many government policies reflect the importance of education. Tuition and accommodation rates at universities across China have stayed flat over EGRC’s 16 years, even as costs of living have risen. And recent policies to grant free high school tuition/board to students below the poverty line, plus loans for university tuition for rural students, make it possible for many more students to obtain higher education.• A girl who finishes grade nine but cannot go to high school has a much-reduced set of possibilities – if she goes to a city, she may do low-wage factory work, wait tables, or work in a beauty salon. If she stays in the village she will be married by 15-16 and have children quickly. The girls who go on to do high school and universities bring their families out of poverty and act as role models for their entire village.• People to people relations will continue, and efforts like EGRC’s create educated women who think for themselves. They all know Ching’s story and how Canada fits in, and several have come to Canada for post-graduate work.• It costs amazingly little to make a big difference. C$3600 for three years of high school, and C$2800-7500 for four to five years of university, depending on the destination. For more information, email info@egrc.ca**.
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by Manulife**.
Howard Balloch received CCBC’s 5 at 50 award in the Relationship Builders category. Howard was Canada’s longest-serving ambassador to China, and then he shifted to a business career in Beijing. He has been in the middle of the political and investment action for many decades. Key takeaways from Howard:
• Relationships are complicated, particularly in a society that lacks traditional faith in institutions of business relationships, such as legal, contractual and societal. You need strong personal relationships to buttress nascent business relationships.
• When negotiating in China, be prepared for whiplash. The actual negotiations take a LONG time, so you must keep at it, and maintain your sense of humor. Don’t be afraid to be Canadian through the process. Once you reach an agreement, and it’s pedal to the metal, and your Chinese counterparts may go from incredibly patient to incredibly impatient. They need to develop their confidence in a relationship, and we want to have things locked up contractually.
• The future of the Canada-China business relationship is PEOPLE. Strong relationships will help Canada transcend these difficult times.
This multi-part miniseries is sponsored by Manulife.
In Part 2 of a three-part miniseries on China’s 14th Five-Year Plan (FYP), CCBC Managing Director China Noah Fraser interviews Trey McArver, the co-founder and partner on politics at Trivium China, one of China’s most sought-after boutique political and economic policy analysis shops. Trey dives into five key sectors of interest to the Canadian business community – identifying the challenges and opportunities in the latest FYP for businesses in financial services, agribusiness, natural resources, energy and cleantech.
This three-part miniseries is sponsored by Neo Performance Materials.
In Part 1 of a three-part miniseries on China's recently released 14th Five-Year Plan, CCBC Managing Director China Noah Fraser sits down with Alfredo Montufar-Helu, Director, Beijing of the Economist Corporate Network. In a macroeconomic clinic on the China market, Alfredo talks about the fundamentals of the 13th Five-Year Plan, goals set out for the 14th Five-Year Plan, new policy terms like dual-circulation and demand-side reform and much more.
This three-part miniseries is sponsored by Neo Performance Materials Inc.
In this episode of The Bilateral, we hear from John Stackhouse, author and Senior VP, Office of the CEO, RBC, and his views on the value of Canada’s expat community beyond the “Great White North.” In his recently released book, Planet Canada, John contends that our country’s greatest untapped resource may be the three million Canadians who don’t live here.
We are pleased to introduce the premiere episode of the Bilateral, the flagship podcast from the Canada China Business Council (CCBC). The Bilateral is designed to shed light on issues of interest to the Canada-China business community, to highlight some of the interesting work CCBC’s members are doing, and to help our Canadian audience better understand what is happening in China today from a business perspective.