Talking out of school: Recent Episodes
Loretta Piazza
Being a school principal is the best job in the world, but it's not for the faint-hearted. It takes a huge amount of technical acumen, resilience and emotional regulation, and most importantly, the ability to maintain a work-life balance.Experienced principals, leaders and experts come together to share their experiences, stories and advice, designed to help principals, assistant principals and aspirants stay ahead of the game....
'Principals, you can control the emotional temperature of your schools by not buying into the desire of those who employ you to make you afraid.....' says Jane Caro, a woman known for saying what's on her mind. Her low-boredom threshold level has seen her embrace many careers; she is a novelist, lecturer, mentor, social commentator, columnist, workshop facilitator, speaker, broadcaster and award-winning advertising writer. Jane also has strong opinions on private schools and wonders why parents feel compelled to select their children's social groups. 'It's all about that bling, pushing the prestige and glamorous and brand private...'
Why is it that we have this compulsion to fix things in our schools that don't need fixing? Take the early years, for example. Victoria is the highest performing state in Australia when it comes to reading. Naplan tells us this. Misty Adoniou is a respected expert in the field of language and she says the gaps are in the middle years, not the early years. The overwhelming majority of kids in the early years are doing well and don't need to be taught using a 'deficit' approach.
Rosie hasn't been teaching long but she knows it's not a job that promotes work-life balance. And university didn't prepare her for the administrative tasks, curriculum planning, and challenging relationships. She loves the work with students, but needed much more support to navigate and manage the workload, which is overwhelming.
Experienced teacher Rob McDonald loves teaching, loves his kids, and knows his craft. But what he doesn't like are the endless administrative tasks, the never-ending collection of data and the things that take him away from what he needs to do - teaching. In this interview, Rob reflects on the job's highs, but also what is driving him to seek out a new career .....
I call Diane Snowball the reading guru. With more than fifty years experience under her belt, which includes a lengthy consulting stint in New York, her knowledge about how children learn to read is outstanding. In this second episode, Di talks about the importance of building world knowledge, scaffolding learning and the philosophy behind flexible small group teaching. Di urges teachers to steer clear of reading programs; it's understanding how learning takes place and what it looks like in reading that makes all the difference.
Kids just love books about bums and farts! They also love to read about dinosaurs, planets and animals. This is why the humble classroom library is a must in all schools. Reading expert, Diane Snowball, talks about the importance of exposing children to a range of reading material that stimulates curiosity, builds vocabulary and has them craving more. Principals, get the cheque book out because this is just the beginning in how to transform reading......
Retired principal, Deborah Patterson, calls it like it is. If her recently published book 'Passion, guts & leadership: an A-Z for the unconventional educational leader' is anything to go by, she can teach us a great deal, not just about the school principal's job, but about life in general.
Teaching mathematics is no simple task. It requires some real shifts in pedagogical thinking and making sure students are at the centre. According to Peter Sullivan, educational consultant specialising in the teaching of mathematics, kids learn best when they work on problems that they do not yet know how to solve. Peter's research shows that many students do not fear challenges in mathematics, but actually welcome them. However, to get to this point, principals need to be sure the numbers add up.
Whilst equity funding to disadvantaged schools is a god-send, the work involved is huge. Principal Phillip Banks doesn't shy away from his tough gig. The Victorian education system puts an unrelenting emphasis on PISA and Naplan results, but this principal knows that the wellbeing of his students is paramount and he has to get this right before any meaningful instruction can occur. Kudos to principals like Phillip Banks who courageously put first things first.
36 years is a long time to be in education; but even longer as a primary school principal. This principal has 'given back' in many ways, not just to his Dandenong North community, but to state education generally. Kevin Mackay is a remarkable man, mentor, leader and school principal who started out as one of those rambunctious naughty kids and today leaves a legacy like no other. This is his story....
School improvement comes in many forms and can be likened to fishes with rotting heads- unfortunately I can't take the credit for this great metaphor! The big question is: do principals major in majors or major in minors? This principal knows exactly what he needed to major in, so as to be the eighth most improved school in the state....
School improvement comes from aligning staff, students and community. Former principal, David Finnerty, shares his story about how he went 'incognito' into the school he was appointed to, and how drawing a very deep line in the sand was the only way to stop everyone falling in....
How do you put the foundations in place when your students, staff and community have nothing in common and come together for the first time? For founding principal Pauline Kubat it wasn't hard because she worked with stakeholders to develop the values and guiding principles. Back then, there were about 100 students. Today it's a vibrant school of nearly 1500!
In building a strong school culture, there are many overlapping and cohesive actions that a principal needs to consider. But it all begins with connections, core beliefs, behaviours and effective communication.
'We're actually very good here in Australia with kids who start below average. But that's often not recognised because there's more money in arguing that we're doing a bad job.' Professor John Hattie and I talk about school improvement and the issue of putting experience before expertise when it comes to promotion and jobs. He believes we will struggle to get people to join the education profession if we don't change this. John says he's not provocative. You be the judge....
What started out as a set of four preconditions for achieving school improvement in 2008 is now a major framework that includes a further two stages linked to the teacher. We now know that leadership, along with its overarching influence, is what makes all the difference.
'If we could get every teacher to move every student in their class up at least one competency level, the overall impact on the system, on the country, would be enormous. Just one level of competency....' Emeritus Professor Patrick Griffin talks about the importance of moving to a competency-based curriculum and the need for principals to help teachers become skilled observers.
'Get this region out of the Herald Sun.' These were Minister Lynne Kosky's pleas to newly-appointed Northern Metropolitan Regional Director, Wayne Craig. What happened during the next eight years involved developing and implementing a courageous narrative of school regeneration and school improvement.
'Listen girlie...' A former Regional Director recalls the challenges associated with lifting standards. In six years, Katherine Henderson took the Western Metropolitan Region from basket case to the highest performing in the state of Victoria. Here's how she did it....
My 'partner in crime' opens up about his somewhat problematic relationship with the Department of Education. But he will always be authentic and honest because that is the person he is. This philosophy has stood him in good stead because after many, many years as a school principal, he goes to school every day and continues to give it his best shot.
Are we on the verge of the next paradigm shift with the building of wellbeing in people? Active resilience is the 'looking forward' movement that incorporates taking care of ourselves and focusing our own health. Maria Ruberto talks about neuroscience, resilience, the healthy brain, and much more....
Transcript
Loretta 00:03
You're listening to Loretta Piazza, experienced school principal, mentor, and coach. And together we're talking out at school. You will hear from leaders who have lived and breathed so many experiences, good and bad, agonized over decisions, and who have tossed and turned through countless sleepless nights. These are the people who will help you stay ahead of the game. In this continued interview with psychologist Maria, Roberto, we hear about some of her work in Melbourne primary and secondary schools, and how resilience is taught. Maria believes we are on the verge of the next paradigm shift with the building of well being in people. Did you know the teachers were the only group to demonstrate a rise in resilience during COVID? Maria provides us with some plausible explanations as to why this might be the case. This is exactly what active resilience is all about. It should also be noted that resilience is much more than our ability to bounce back. We now know that it's also our ability to bounce forward. When we understand the neuroscience components of a healthy brain, the function of each one of these components, and we learn the corresponding behaviors, we are on the right path. And let's not forget the most important element of active resilience. It's the replenishing of self care, and looking after our own health and well being. Okay, let's talk about resilience and the work that you're doing in a large secondary school in Melbourne.
Maria 01:49
Yeah. So first of all, I want to talk to you about well, where it started was that, and I have permission to talk about this. So there's a principal out at Diamond Creek East Primary School, his name is Robert Rostolis. And Robert and his AP Stephen Campbell. In in one of those leadership conferences that I gave that you that you were present at, Robert was also there. So probably about six or seven years ago. Now Robert came to me and said, I'm really interested in this brain stuff. This is how principals normally come to me, they go this brain stuff. I'm interested in that. And I think this is great. Do you want to come and talk to my staff, like, you know, like you did? So So I did that. And the feedback was, Wow, this is very interesting. But it also helps me motivate towards wanting to do things differently. So then Robert said, Can you come back? And I did that a couple of times. And then Robert said to me, what if we were to teach this to primary school children? And I said to Robert, I don't know about that. Robert, this stuff is really heavy. We're talking about brain parts. We're talking about prefrontal cortex, anterior singular cortex, we're talking about the insular, we're talking about the limbic system. You know, we're talking about the parietal cortex, we're talking about big words, the hippocampus, the thalamus. I don't know whether primary school kids can hold this information. And Robert said, Don't under don't ever underestimate the curiosity of children. And I went, Okay, and he said, if you're up to this, I am too, and I went, Oh, yeah, okay, well, let's do this. So what we did is that we created a two day program for primary school children, senior primary school children, and we started with grade fives and sixes. And we ran a two day conference. Now what we did what they did what Robert and his staff did, and they are an incredible school is that they turned their entire library and open area learning into a pseudo conference area. So when you walked into it, it was completely refurbished into what a conference room would l
What are the behaviours we need to engage in to keep ourselves well? Why are these behaviours so important? Psychologist, Maria Ruberto, talks about her work with the Department of Education, and the impact of teachers that can remain for a lifetime.
He was a giant in education, a respected school principal and dear friend, and a great family man. I keep a photo of him on my desk, to remind me that there is nothing in this job as school principal that I can't walk away from.....
Professor Philip Riley shares his thoughts about our education system, the unmanageability of the principal’s role, how it affects our health and the need to have conversations nationally where there are high levels of collaboration and trust. We finish the interview with Phil providing us with three key points and a strong message as to how principals can stay healthy and sane in the unpredictable world of the school leader.
'Under-resourced, mistreated and overburdened with red tape, principals report that, compared to the general population, their job demands are 1.5 times higher, and they experience 1.7 times more stress, 2.2 times more difficulty sleeping and 1.3 times more depressive symptoms.' The findings of The Australian Principal Occupational, Health, Safety and Wellbeing Survey.
All school principals need support, and even more so when dealing with a serious issue. The Australian Principals' Federation (APF) is bi-partisan, totally independent and has no affiliation with anyone or anything that could prevent them from doing what is in the best interests of members. Tina King, president of the APF, gives great advice about what not to do!
The principal's job is not for the faint-hearted. If serving in the job long enough, it's not if, but when something comes out of left field. In today's episode, we listen to the story of a principal who retired due to ill-health as a result of having to endure nearly two years of intense scrutiny after serious allegations were made.
School principals love their jobs. But what do you do when you can no longer do your job properly? That was the dilemma faced by secondary school principal John Conway. The job became so untenable, that, for him, there was only one option...
According to Jim Knight, coaching is for professionals who think for a living. Growth Coaching International Executive Director, Chris Munro, explains how coaching is about relationships and conversations, fuelled by understanding the nuances within the different layers. Coaching and mentoring sit on a continuum, and by asking the ever-important question 'how do I need to be for this person right now' determines the coaching stance and how much of me is needed at this time.
Even school principals, who intuitively are great coaches and mentors, benefit from being coached. In this episode, we listen to Robin Stickland, experienced principal, talk about why she chose to be coached, how she benefited from the experience and her advice to school leaders as to why they shouldn't shy away from the experience.
When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is truly ready, the teacher disappears. Celeste, a primary school teacher, shares her story about the advantages of having a mentor, and the great relationship they share.
Today's leaders can't have all the answers; that's why coaching is so effective. Long time coach, Mandy Dunn, talks about how she uses her experience as a school principal to tap into the needs of the people she coaches by assisting them gain clarity, regain energy and find focus.
Are coaching and mentoring the same thing? Over the coming weeks, the answer becomes clearer. Whilst asking the right questions is important, it's the mentor who has the knowledge and is the one who takes their mentee on the journey. In this episode, experienced and retired primary school principal, now mentor with The Victorian Academy of Teaching and Leadership, Deborah Patterson, shares her story with host, Loretta Piazza. And at times, her story is outrageous....