No One Dies from Divorce: Recent Episodes
Jill Coil
I’m Jill Coil, the author of the book and docuseries “No One Dies from Divorce.” But with the mental, emotional, financial, physical, and spiritual toll that divorce takes on people, the scope is so big that I decided to create a podcast, so this can be an ongoing conversation.Divorce sucks. I know because I’m a divorce attorney and have divorced hundreds of clients at this point. I also went through a separation myself with my husband. Though our journey ultimately did not end in divorce, it gave me personal insight and empathy into the pain and turmoil of my clients’ lives. So if I can use my experience to save you from some of the heartache, confusion, stress, anxiety, or unknowing, our sole mission for this podcast will have been met. Remember, I am an attorney, but I am not your attorney. I’m inviting other divorce attorneys, relationship experts, mental health professionals, fitness and health coaches, spiritual leaders, and financial advisors, as well as plenty of people just like you, who are going through or have been through divorce, to talk about their journeys.You’re not alone. You can do this. Let me help you to not only survive through, but also thrive after your divorce. We can use our trials as a pivot to become a better version of ourselves. Let’s get through this together.
Do you feel stressed out, bewildered, emotionally compromised, or overwhelmed with navigating your divorce? Today we are talking with author Andy Heller about how to deal with high-conflict divorces and co-parent effectively. Through his own divorce and life experience, Andy has outlined a pathway for how to manage emotional, logistical, and financial issues that occur during and after a divorce. His goal is to help people choose compassion over fear, heal hearts, prepare for a future, and provide security and stability for their children.
Samantha Boss spent years in and out of court, fighting to modify a poorly crafted divorce decree. This experience inspired Samantha to begin coaching others through the divorce process in order to help more parents avoid the pitfalls of parenting plans. Join us on this episode as we talk about the need for a solid, perfectly tailored parenting plan that covers your family's specific needs, or as Samantha calls it, ”the playbook for life with your kids.”
Divorce is hard on everyone. Between Mediation, decrees, lawyer fees, court dates, parent-time, and more, the divorce process can create a lot of chaos. Often the children of divorce get lost in the conflict, and their voices are not heard. Today we are talking with Grace Casper, a young woman who was a child of divorce. Grace is sharing her perspective as her parents divorced while she was still a child. In her book that's coming out in June, Grace shares what she wishes her parents knew during the divorce along with tips to help children cope with their parents' divorce. Listen in as we discuss how to hear what our children need during divorce, and ways to support them through this massive life change.
Shelly Anderson is passionate about life's journey and the stages we grow through. At times that includes loss, divorce, and death. Join us as we discuss how grief isn't just a single stage, and that trauma becomes a part of who we are. Time does not heal all wounds; time allows the body to absorb the wounds and create space so we can mourn the life we thought we’d live, and press forward in the life we have.
If you're divorced and dating or dating a divorcee, then this episode is for you! Listen in as Naja Hall tells it like it is. Blended families are difficult under the best of circumstances, but marrying someone with a High-Conflict divorce comes at a cost. It will test you mentally, emotionally, and financially, and test your relationship with your new spouse as well as any children involved. All blended families come with chaos and friction, so take Naja's advice and make sure your expectations align with reality before you step into a stepparent role.
Regardless of where you're at in your marriage or divorce process, there are a few key things to consider before choosing to stay or go. Divorce coach Kate Anthony talks about the importance of doing the emotional work which can guide you to finding joy and/or exit with grace. She says, Happiness is an inside job and it begins with making the choice. You deserve to be happy!
The question we should all be asking ourselves Why not ask is relevant in all facets of life. From high-conflict divorces to negotiations in the workplace, we can all benefit from the art of having Crucial Conversations that apply to all our relationships. Join us as we talk with Negotiation expert, Christine McKay, about how Negotiation isn't about winning, it's a conversation about relationships and you can't “win” a relationship.
Make your passion your purpose and it becomes your profession, something Tara Seals, The Bossy Educator has definitely accomplished. As a child of divorce, an educator, and a bonus mom herself, Tara knows all about what divorce means for children. In this episode, Jill and Tara dive into the unspoken trauma and confusion that impacts children when parents divorce. Gather your village, get clear on communication, and put your child's needs first. They see it, feel it, and need you as the adults to speak to it.
For Jill and Joanna, family law was a calling. A call to represent the underdog and even the playing field for fathers. Both women have set the bar high in establishing firms that advocate for equal rights, parent time, and a voice is doing what's best for the child. Too often children are weaponized and used as leverage for money and control. Listen in as they share their journey through law and proclaim the battle cry, “Let him see that child.”
Navigating the tumultuous waters of divorce can be exhausting and at times infuriating. However, many couples are able to come to peaceful resolutions having little to no conflict with the help of experts Jan and Jillian. Divorce doesn't have to ruin your life, but it will redefine it. In some cases, it may open old wounds and push you to find emotional freedom and hope through the trials. With the help of skilled professionals, experienced mediators, and lawyers, you can divorce differently and find a path to a peaceful resolution.
You are in for a wild ride as we journey down the Rabbit hole of corruption with the Murdaugh family murders. At the center of it all is underage drinking, poor parenting, white privilege, and a prominent family wrapped in a web of deceit and corruption. On the surface what appeared to be a reckless boating accident turned into the scandal of a century with bodies piling up. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Listen in as we dissect all the recent accusations, settlements, and pending verdicts.
So you fell in love with a partner who has kids! Everything seems pleasant at first, but quickly you become villainized as the “wicked stepmother.” You feel overwhelmed, unseen, blamed, and like you're always walking on eggshells. If this sounds like your journey as a step parent, join us as Radical Stepmom Christina shares her personal and professional experience of how to put your marriage first and navigate the tumultuous terrain of being a stepmom.
Today we are talking with Mary Crafts about her hard won life lessons in her newly published book, Unbounded: From Sorrow to Summitt. At 50 Mary found herself, overworked, overweight, and in a toxic loveless marriage. Something had to give. Join us as she shares her wisdom on how to honor yourself, reclaim your life, and let go of fear.
In this episode we uncover the outdated beliefs and practices within the legal system and how being a strong, independent woman comes with unique challenges. Listen in as Jill and Kathleen share their journey to success by overcoming the odds and obstacles of discrimination, shaming, and self doubt within the legal field. Join them as they champion each one another, other women and break barriers.
Make no mistake, divorce is a tragedy, but you can bounce back and live out your dreams even after a disaster strikes. Today we are talking with Candace Rivera who has weathered many storms including divorce. In this episode you will hear sound advice and encouragement on how to address the trauma, be intentional with your time and GIVE YOURSELF GRACE! Rock bottom has a basement, find it, then take the stairs. A new life awaits!
Sadly our society and the legal system encourages that we stack the evidence against our spouse to justify why we deserve a divorce. Often this approach only makes things worse and children become the collateral damage. There is another way. Today we are talking with Kate Strong about what it really means to do divorce differently. It starts with Asking Yourself and doing the work of inner Self-Care. Listen as she shares how being open and vulnerable is a strength that helps you heal. “You have to feel it to heal it” she says. Join us as we get curious, ask questions, and do the work for our own personal growth!
Dating after divorce can be daunting and exhausting. “The grass isn't always greener. It still has to be watered and most of it is fake. 80% of the dating pool is junk, they haven't done the work to be a good date,” says Katy Clark. Join us as we dive into how to reinvent yourself post divorce, start your Glow-Up and go from frumpy to fabulous with the 3 Fs.
**Often when we are young we are blinded by love and overlook the small acts of indiscretion and disrespect in a relationship. Years later after marriage, kids, and abandonment of self, we face divorce filled with anger, fear and resentment. Together Jill and Cindy are on a mission to eradicate the shame and stigma around divorce.
Listen in as certified divorce coach Cindy Stibbard unpacks her journey through dating, marriage and divorce and how looking back she can identify all the things she didn't know, the red flags she ignored, and how once she knew better, she was able to do better.**
Divorces are messy, especially when it's time to clean house and sell! Today we are talking to divorce real estate expert, Joe Gordon on why you want a certified specialist vs. a standard agent when selling a house during a divorce. Having experienced his own divorce and the complexities of selling, Joe understands the delicate process it is to unravel a life and home. Listen in as he shares tips to finding a good agent that will help you move forward with your new life.
With aNew year, new you under way, this might include new relationships. But first, before we can start something new, we need to break up with the old and let go of what is holding us back. Join me and Leanne Kanzler as we talk about how to Breakup to Breakthrough and live your best life! It's time to break free from what isn't working.
It's that time again! Join us as we present this year's calendar challenge designed with you and life in mind. We all have roadblocks, setbacks, and heartbreak, but we also have dreams, goals, and ambitions. This month focus on one daily challenge to create a better you. And remember, courage begins with one step!
What should have been a clear cut divorce turned into a 3 year long battle with wild accusations, late night social media rants, and massive public scrutiny. Join us as we talk all about Kim and Kanye, his radical behavior, her ice cold shut outs and how even an iron clad prenup won't save you from a PR and legal nightmare.
There is no shortage of drama in Utah when it comes to the Wizard of Oz, Jen Shah and Momtok “swinger,” Taylor Frankie Paul. Jen Shahs is facing potentially 30 years in federal prison for fraud and Taylor is facing solitary confinement as a newly proclaimed monogamous woman. Shah struck gold by defrauding elderly people out of their retirement and now it's time to pay the piper with her sentencing just around the corner on December 15th.
"How can I help the individuals going through a traumatic event like divorce,” is the question psychiatrist Amy Parry asks herself? Oftentimes teenagers get thrown to the side when parents are divorcing. Amy was drawn to teenagers who are struggling with the fallout of divorce on mental health. In her work she focuses on trying to understand what they are feeling and going through. “We can't make them behave, we need to work to understand them and help them understand themselves.” Listen in as we talk all about the challenges our teenagers, and ourselves, face when a family divorces.
With the holiday season upon us, we often become quickly overwhelmed with to-dos. In this episode, Steph Andersen talks about the power of healing and yoga: to unit or become one with self. If the heartbreak of divorce and fractured relationships have you stressed out, take a minute to release those trapped emotions and center yourself. Finding balance can bring peace and calm into our life. Join us as we slow things down and reflect on all the reasons we have to be grateful. May we all find many reasons to cultivate gratitude this week! Happy Thanksgiving!
Relationships are hard and being human is complex, especially when you're going through a divorce. Today we are diving into why therapy is beneficial to individuals and families during or post separation. Divorce doesn't erase the relationships, it just changes the dynamics. We all need a safe space to unpack the emotions without shame or blame. Listen in as I talk with LMFT Ben Farmer about the challenges families face and overcome when navigating divorce.
As an expert on attachment theory, Dr Morgan shares with us her insights on how to attract relationships you deserve. In today's episode we discuss how the habit of putting others' needs before our own, or ignoring our internal experiences, drives us to seek distractions from dealing with ourselves. Join us as we explore how healthy romantic relationships work and how to go from lonely to loved.
Not all divorce is high conflict. In this special Halloween edition, we uncover the seemingly dark side of divorce. We shake the bones loose and question the cost of Adultery, being a bad Spouse vs a good parent, and do moms always win? Listen in as we blast some of the spooky myths about divorce.
You can't fight for your rights if you don't know your rights. Rob Jepson has dedicated his career to helping divorcees avoid heartache, pain, and financial setbacks through solution oriented mediation. We all need guidance on what is legal, within our rights, and what we really want during divorce. Join us on this episode as we talk about the goal of mediation and how it can help you minimize damage and find resolution.
While navigating through the turmoil of his own divorce, Andy Heller read countless support books to help him through the process. He identified a crucial hole in the self-help space for men and women experiencing divorce. His book, “Take the High Road, Divorce with Compassion for Yourself and Your Family,” is his give back with a stated goal of making the divorce process easier. In this episode we discuss all the tips to help you not only survive through divorce but thrive and along the way learn to give yourself the grace and compassion that you deserve. This is an episode you don’t want to miss. Pick up Andy’s book on Amazon and grab a copy of “No One Dies From Divorce” as well.
Jahan Kalantar fell in love with advocating for the little guy. During the pandemic, overnight he went from a booming practice in Syndey to zero revenue. The Government's regulation was confusing, convoluted and divisive. So he took to TikTok to help explain the law in plain English. Then he struck TikTok gold with the Depp-Heard case, or as he calls it, the trial of our generation. As a self proclaimed nerd, Jahan read up on Virginia law to give the most informed and eloquent play by play of the trial. Join me and Jahan as we talk, all things legal from defamation, to domestic abuse, coercion, to public relations, and what happens when you’re not prepared for your day in court.
Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo co-host one of the top marriage podcasts on Apple called, The One Extraordinary Marriage Show. From their own experience and years of helping others, they know a thing or two about what it takes to make any relationship last. It starts by understanding the six pillars of Intimacy. Tony and Alisa have written a best selling book, “The 6 Pillars of Intimacy” to guide anyone who wants a stronger, healthier relationship. If you have gone through a divorce or are going through a divorce, their advice will give you the tools you need to create a better you and learn how to love and be loved to the fullest.
Shakira and Gerard Pique split after 12 years together. They have two children together. There is much speculation and gossip around why they are breaking up. Join us as we go into all the juicy details of the power couples split. Shakira’s hips may not lie but her lips aren’t moving and the truth behind their break up may never come to light. And later, my guest Kelly Baldwin and I will dive into the difference of Common Law Marriage and Paternity: what it means for you and your family and the different reliefs each type of case gets.
Michael Wise is a paralegal for MoxieLaw, a personal injury firm. He is dedicated to helping people find peace and closure through difficult times, including the struggles many of us have with mental health. Today Michael and I will be discussing the very sensitive yet crucial topic of suicide. Join us as we go over 5 things you can do to help you through your darkest moments and remember, Tomorrow Needs You! If you or a loved one are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please call 988 for help. You are not alone.
Welcome to season 2! Tessa is the founder of The Job Doctor. A practice dedicated to building career strategies and re-engaging people in the workplace. She believes anyone and everyone can gain new skills to enter the workplace and thrive. Tessa was newly divorced and had been out of the workplace for a while. She knew she had to provide for her family which would require hard work and determination to become a valuable asset in a company. She worked her way up from an entry level position at Franklin Covey to becoming one of the leading executive females in the company. Tessa is here today to tell you that whatever your circumstances, with the right coaching and the right attitude, you can become invaluable in any job. She will share with us how to create the career you want, deserve, and that will allow you to provide for yourself and your family.
No One Dies from Divorce concludes it's first season. Thank you everyone for the support and we will see you in the fall! Follow @jillcoil on Instagram, Tiktok, and Facebook to stay up to date.
Krista Andersen is passionate about living fully, family, conflict engagement, using words to heal instead of harm, and creating memorable experiences. Her passion for how words are used to heal and harm led her to the field of mediation where Krista is devoted to helping clients learn how to engage in conflict in healthy ways. Knowing that conflict is a constant in our lives, Krista seeks to educate people on how what they say and write has a deep impact on their relationships and personal well-being. Her personal mantra is “words matter.” Further, as a Cancer Survivor she discusses how she found joy in the journey and was able to overcome grief, fear and resentment to use her experience as an opportunity to inspire. Krista is an example of how we can use our trials as a platform to become the best version of ourselves. And though the road will not necessarily be easy it will give you strength and fortify to overcome all.
The final divorce tip this season! I'm explaining what to do when divorcing a Narcissist
You sometimes have to fall flatter on your face then you ever have to be able to stand taller than you ever could. This is exactly how Megan Sanford would describe her experience of being addicted to Meth, pregnant at 19, and not knowing if she would be here tomorrow. Megan shares her most vulnerable story with the world in hopes that it will give hope and encouragement for anyone feeling they are in a hopeless situation. Megan rallied back after giving two children up for adoption, quit doing drugs and turned her life around. Now almost ten years later she is married, has two more kids, has a relationship with the two kids she gave up for adoption, is over ten years sober, and just graduated law school. Megan tells the world that if she can stand up after her experience so can you.
"If you are in a relationship that is keeping you from being happy for whatever reason, then it is probably not best to stay in said relationship."
Immigration is scary and a complicated process for those that have started, are in the middle and/or are in the final stages of the process. It can be almost paralyzing when having to deal with immigration when going through a divorce. In fact many think that they cannot divorce or leave an abusive relationship because of their immigration status. However, Pooja Mehta, an attorney out of New Jersey joins our show to dispel the myths and fears with family law and immigration. Her biggest takeaway is that if you are an immigrant and in any process of gaining citizenship to this country you do not have to stay in an abusive relationship. There are things you can do to get out of the relationship and still move forward with citizenship and your life. Finding an immigration attorney like Pooja can help you ease your fears and move you in a pathway forward. There is hope and life after divorce.
Not all divorces go to trial, but some do. I explain in this divorce tip episode why that would happen.
Johnny Depp v. Amber Heard’s Defamation trial has been heard around the world. Millions are captivated at every move, argument and evidence that has been presented regarding Johnny Depp's Defamation case against Amber Heard and her Counter Complaint for Defamation against Johnny Depp and his Lawyer. Jill Coil and Sterling Swank break down the trial all the way up to the last week of testimony. You can get all the information, opinions and gossip right here. Jill Coil has been covering the entire trial on her Instagram: JillCoil, Facebook: JillCoil and Tiktok: JillCoil. Check it out. The outcome of this case will be known very shortly after this podcast comes out and it will be the verdict heard around the world. We will keep you updated on all of Jill Coil’s Social Media.
**Life after divorce allows you to be true to who you really are. So often in marriage, we forget our own needs because we are busy taking care of our spouse and our children. Because of this, we end up losing sense of what we want and what our needs are. Divorce gives us that chance to rediscover who we are and what we want to be. Today’s guest, Leta Greene, is all about embracing what makes us individually hot and amazing. Join us to learn how you can break down the walls of self doubt and negativity with the 12 Rocks of Hotness!
International speaker including three TEDx talks and author of two best-selling books, Leta Greene doesn't want to intimidate any of you, but she is known as "Hotness." At 12, she won the Boy Scout arm wrestling competition. None of those boys ever asked her out. Leta majored in Sign language and graduated with honors. Ironically, she is REALLY good at not talking. Leta inspires each of us to embrace what makes us individually hot and amazing. As an image consultant and makeup artist since 1999, Leta has helped clients to not only look their best, but to feel their best. Leta has also built a multi-million-dollar business in the beauty industry and is a sought-after trainer for women entrepreneurs. Her message is one of honoring yourself through being authentic to who you are. It is through humor, stories and a new way of seeing the everyday that makes Leta's audiences of all ages want to hold on for more! Her programs range f rom n1aturation programs for girls, confidence workshops for tweens, teen girls and women, seminars for parents on how to talk to your kids about sex and abuse. Leta is also an energetic keynote speaker for conferences and seminars on resiliency, personal responsibility, and, of course, the Hotness factor.**
Leta is the mother of Nathaniel, Ailsa, and Katelynn, who Leta and her husband, Nathan, agree are the most adorable children. Just follow her on Facebook and yot1 will see that they are amazing. She says her kids and hubby bring it home for her; anytime she thinks she is too cool, it is time to cook dinner. She considers her greatest accomplishment that her hubby and children still like her.
This can be such an amazing journey of self-discovery. Imagine how much better the world would be if we all had the ability to become our best selves!
Taken from Chapter 1 of my book, No One Dies from Divorce: How to Survive and Thrive When Your Marriage Ends.
This is a book about not only surviving divorce but also coming out on the other side stronger and more capable. The scariest part about divorce is the unknown, the questions that keep you up at night: Am I going to be okay? Are my kids going to be okay? What will my family and friends think? Am I a failure? What is wrong with me? People get divorced for a variety of reasons, but whatever the reason, divorce is not easy. In fact, it will most likely be one of the hardest times of your life. Even if you are the one who wants a divorce, it will be hard. For some, it may even seem insurmountable. But one thing I know for sure is, no one
dies from divorce.
You’re not alone. You can do this. Let me help you to not only survive through, but also thrive after your divorce. We can use our trials as a pivot to become a better version of ourselves. Let’s get through this together.
https://www.amazon.com/No-One-Dies-Divorce-Marriage/dp/1736959107
**Most assume the financial ramifications of a divorce to be devastating, but with the right legal and financial counsel, divorce can offer the chance for a new financial beginning and opportunity. Today’s guest, Rick Salmeron, is a certified financial planner and knows firsthand about the financial issues that arise when getting divorced. Keep your focus on rebuilding after a difficult process with these surprising financial benefits of divorce.
Rick Salmeron is that guy who actually loves things like compounding interest, ROI and financial statements. He's not a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ professional because his guidance counselor once told him he should give it a whirl. He was meant to do this. He's that guy who makes your trip to the financial planner a lot more like that local neighborhood café, and a lot less like your high school accounting class.**
Entered the industry in 1990, he created Salmeron Financial in 2001 and helps brilliant, very successful (and typically, insanely busy) people & families make wise decisions with their money, so that they can pursue their most important financial goals.
The mission of the state funded programs, DCFS and CPS (Division of Child and Family Services and/or Child Protective Services), is to keep children safe from violence, abuse, and neglect. If DCFS/CPS shows up at your door, you likely have a lot of questions about their process and what your rights are at each stage of the process. Tune in if you are dealing with DCFS/CPS issues during divorce, so that you know all the ways to protect your family.Download Jill Coil's Division of Child and Family Services Guide: For Utah Parents and Guardians
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08C69K7HS/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_NzQrFbTB7R1RW
TR Morgan has presided in over 10,000 hearings as a former Domestic Relations Commissioner for the Utah Courts. After years of practicing on the bench, TR joins to share his background, judicial philosophy, and best practices when your case goes to court. Tune in to learn more from a retired Commissioner!
T.R. Morgan grew up in Northern Utah playing high school basketball, winning at board games, and watching tv when he wasn’t reading. After serving an LDS mission to Brazil, he attended the University of Utah and graduated with a political science degree. He then went on to receive his Juris Doctorate from the SJ Quinney School of Law. During law school, T.R. worked full-time with the Internal Revenue Service as a tax examiner and legal intern. T.R. started his legal career working with renowned Ogden Attorney Bob Echard, and, after a few years, started his own general law practice. T.R. has litigation experience in most areas of law, specializing in family law and probate.
Most recently, T.R. served as a Domestic Relations Commissioner in the Second Judicial District Court. His experience wearing the black robe gave him the opportunity to interact with and guide litigants and attorneys through the Shakespearian tempest that domestic litigation can be, presiding over more than 10,000 hearings. He is most proud of, and grateful for, the high marks he received from attorneys during his annual reviews.
T.R. met his wife in high school and started dating after graduation. They have been married since 1997 and have five children. Outside of the office, T.R. enjoys traveling, cheering for the Utes, and watching and discussing tv and movies. For a few years, he was part-owner of an all-ages live music venue, “The Basement.” T.R. is committed to CoilLaw and its ever-increasing standards: he is thrilled to be given the opportunity to grow, transform, and learn from CoilLaw’s diverse and inclusive team.
Can I keep my inheritance safe from divorce? The short answer is yes, however you need to ensure you’re protecting money by knowing your state’s laws. Regardless of your state, I always advise that you avoid commingling these funds, and to consider getting a trust as an added layer of protection. If you’re the recipient of an inheritance, tune in today to learn more about your options.
Even though I’ve been a JLo fan since the beginning of her career, I’m not a huge fan of “Bennifer”. Today, Cameron and I are indulging in more salacious celebrity gossip and sharing why it’s not the best idea to get back with your ex.
Even if you consider your divorce amicable or less complicated because you do not have children, it does not hurt to consult with a family law attorney to ensure you’re protecting yourself, property, and future. While many people may think of hiring an attorney for a “simple” divorce without children, there are other factors to consider when proceeding, such as: refinancing and removing a party from the marital home, splitting retirement accounts, and joint debt. Access your credit report, list all of your property, and consult with an attorney before finalizing your divorce without children.
**Betrayal can affect your entire life - work, health, and even your relationships. While we’ve heard it before, “time heals all wounds”, Dr. Debi Silber joins me today with proof that this is not true. It doesn’t matter if your betrayal happened decades ago, you can still experience post betrayal syndrome today. Listen in as we discuss how to heal from betrayal in your relationship and experience freedom on the other side.
Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the PBT (Post Betrayal Transformation) Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health, mindset and personal development expert, the author of Trust Again, and is a 2-time #1 International bestselling author of: The Unshakable Woman AND From Hardened to Healed: The Effortless Path to Release Resistance, Get Unstuck and Create a Life You Love. Her podcast: From Betrayal to Breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top 1.5% of podcasts. Her recent PhD study on how we experience betrayal made 3 groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. In addition to being on FOX, CBS, The Dr. Oz Show, TEDx (twice) and more, she’s an award-winning speaker and coach dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence, and happiness they want most.**
Tune in today to learn my take on the pros and cons of the hot real estate market right now, and how to deal with that while getting divorced.
Divorce and Relationship Coach, Karen McMahon**, joins me today to discuss the hardest parts of co-parenting, tips to help your kids through divorce, and how to deal with a high conflict ex. Listen in to learn how you can build a strong and lasting foundation for parenting teens and young adults.
Karen McMahon is a Certified Relationship and Divorce Coach, Founder of Journey Beyond Divorce**. Karen leads a team of divorce coaches in supporting men and women around the world to become calm, clear and confident as they navigate divorce.
Karen began divorce coaching in 2010 after recognizing that the pain of her divorce led her on a transformational journey into an incredible new life. During her three and a half year tumultuous divorce, Karen had a laser focus on healing and refining herself, she found her true voice, learned to set suitable boundaries, and surrendered what she could not control. As a result, her life began to improve exponentially. Karen has since spent the last decade helping thousands of men and women navigate the emotional and practical difficulties of relationships, breakups and divorce. Karen is the host of the acclaimed Journey Beyond Divorce Podcast, co-author of ‘Stepping out of Chaos: Turning Pain to Possibility” and co-creator of JBD’s exclusive 12 Step Divorce Recovery Program. Her other accomplishments include work as a NYS Lobbyist, Health Advocate, Community Organizer, and Chairperson of a NYS non-profit organization, Director of Sales and Marketing, and successful small business owner.
It took Karen three years to decide she wanted to leave her spouse and get divorced. She describes herself as an “emotional hot mess” during that journey, which ultimately led her to building her program, Journey Beyond Divorce.
My name is Jill Coil, and I know a thing or two about divorce. I have been a divorce attorney for the past 14 years and am licensed to practice law in Texas and Utah. I own the domestic litigation firm Coillaw and have grown it in the past 7 years to be a multimillion-dollar law firm and one of the largest family law firms in the State of Utah. I have also written the Amazon bestselling book “No One Dies from Divorce” and am the executive producer of the docuseries with the same name. I am the host of the podcast “No One Dies from Divorce.”
I have seen thousands of divorces while working as a divorce attorney. I also have gone through the experience of facing divorce in my own marriage and the pain that was associated with it. Though my personal story did not end in divorce, it shocked my consciousness into understanding the pain, confusion, and hopelessness that comes with the possibility and/or conclusion that your marriage is ending.
I have seen divorce from both sides. I hope to share both this empathy and this experience with you to help you in whatever your own situation is.
Through the painful experience of facing my own divorce, I learned many valuable lessons. I learned that my anger could blind my rational, educated mind. I learned that I was willing to do things I knew were wrong and not in my family’s best interest, purely out of spite and anger. I learned that there are a multitude of external factors and individual needs that require constant nurturing and attention to make a marriage work.
**The stress of divorce can trigger a wide range of emotional responses, including eating disorders. Today, I’m joined by Dr. Susan Thompson, President of the Institute for Sustainable Weight Loss and the founder of the worldwide Bright Line Eating Movement, to discuss the psychology behind how and why we eat the way we do.
Susan Peirce Thompson, Ph.D. is an Adjunct Associate Professor of Brain and Cognitive Sciences at the University of Rochester and an expert in the psychology of eating. She is President of the Institute for Sustainable Weight Loss and the founder of the worldwide Bright Line Eating movement. Her first two books, including “Bright Line Eating: The Science of Living Happy, Thin, and Free,” became New York Times bestsellers and instant Hay House favorites. Her work weaves the neuroscience of food addiction with powerful insights from Positive Psychology, IFS, and 12-Step Recovery to outline a roadmap for achieving true integrity and self-authorship around food. The Bright Line Eating mission is to help one million people around the globe discover lasting food freedom and have their “Bright Transformations” by 2025.**
We all have automated our eating habits to a large extent. To retrain our brains and change these habits, it takes about 3-4 months of discipline and intense structure. Bright Line Eating works because
- They take food addiction seriously.
- They know that the solution is automaticity; you’re never going to win if it’s about choice and willpower. Automaticity is brushing your teeth in the morning and night without thinking about it. Bright Line will teach you how to tap into that part of the brain so you treat eating the same way.
Eating disorders can be developed as a way for a person to cope with stressful situations, and can cause a person to overeat or undereat. When it comes to the first, the idea that food can be an addiction is controversial. Bright Line addresses this idea by drawing a line around problem substances like flour and sugar.
If you’re struggling with an eating disorder during or after divorce, tap into the psychology behind how and why you eat the way you do. If it’s time to build a new relationship with food, consider retraining your brain with a program like Bright Line, join a group, or talk to a Doctor / therapist.
In this mini-episode, I’m discussing a few different types of emergency orders. What issues qualify as an emergency, and tips on how to proceed. If you are in an emergency or feeling threatened, please call the cops and seek protection.
[TRIGGER WARNING: Mentions of self harm and suicide.] If you or a loved one need support, call the 24/7 National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (8255).
This week I’m joined by my friend and paralegal, Michael Wise, who shares his raw and real story of divorce, and how he worked through fear, guilt, and shame to reclaim his life. It may not kill you, but in the thick of it, divorce can certainly test your will to live. Find out the tools, keys, and things you need to do to protect yourself to find that peace of mind and ensure you come out better, stronger, and happier in the end.
Michael began his legal career in 1994 near Los Angeles, California when he was asked to help an attorney move storage boxes the week before the Northridge earthquake. From picking up scattered papers and learning how to put files back together after the earthquake to answering phones, typing, learning to take dictation, drafting pleadings and declarations, understanding legal concepts, and meeting with clients, Michael was able to gain experience in all levels and aspects of legal assistance. He was certified as a paralegal in 1998 with a specialty in civil litigation.
After a break from his legal career to work at the headquarters of his church (which is what brought him from California to Salt Lake City) and a too-short time as a businessman with his own retail store, he has been able to spend the past ten years working with some of the most respected attorneys in Utah’s legal community. He realizes that the community is a small one and he maintains and enjoys good working relationships with opposing staff and attorneys as well as court clerks, interpreters, court reporters, and experts in various fields. He was once honored by a nomination to the Utah State Bar as Paralegal of the Year.
Michael is married with 4 children and a grandson, and lives in Pleasant Grove with a dachshund and a chihuahua. He speaks fluent Spanish and has professional experience as a translator and interpreter.
Summary: Today we’re talking about depositions in divorce: what is it, why is it needed, and who is a part of them? Although they tend to be pricey, depositions can be a powerful tool in the discovery process and important pieces to building a case, especially in high conflict/assets situations. Listen in to learn more about this process and to determine if it’s right for you.
The deposition is a sworn statement, taken in the office of one of the lawyers, before a court reporter who takes a transcript of everything that is said. Depositions give you an opportunity to ask questions
I always say, when you’re on the stand, you don’t want to ask a question that you don’t know the answer to. Depositions give you the opportunity to ask all the questions, so that you can get all the information you need and follow up with necessary documents. When you’re an aggressive attorney like myself, depositions are the best time to shine and get the information your client really needs.
Unless your spouse is hiding assets, withholding information, etc., depositions shouldn’t be conducted in every case. They’re pricey, time consuming, and emotionally grueling on the client. You should also be aware that if your spouse is manipulative and able to evade questions, depositions could be a waste of time.
Work with your attorney to strategize and see if a deposition is necessary for your case. If so, make sure you’re collaborating with them to get all the questions in order to best prepare.
I’m diving into the legal details we know about Nick Cannon’s family life, as he recently announced his current girlfriend is pregnant with his eighth child! Join me and my fellow family law attorney, Luke Shaw, as we discuss potential outcomes for Nick, and what we can learn from celebrity paternity issues.
Relocation cases are not easy and often involve high emotions and conflict. While it may not be unusual for one parent to want to move out of state after the divorce is finalized, it won’t be as easy as taking the kids with you if it interferes with the other parent’s court ordered custody time. Listen in as I discuss specifically what actions you can take when, and how to navigate these circumstances.
Show notes:
I won’t sugar coat it (and you probably know by now, anyway) but relocation on top of divorce is hard, and it’s something I deal with daily in my firm.
What can you do if you’re in this situation? I recommend starting with talking it out with your ex. If you’re not on speaking terms and dealing with a high conflict personality, then it’s time to lawyer up; without an agreement, you’ll need to go to court. While the court may be understanding of the various reasons someone would relocate, they must evaluate many factors before deciding; such as how the move will impact the child’s stability, education, social life, etc.
Every state has different statutes around this, so I cannot stress enough that you meet with a knowledgeable attorney as soon as possible.
**Co-parenting isn’t always easy, but it’s extremely important that you and your ex find ways to co-parent respectfully and effectively. Today, I’m joined by sisters, mediators, and co-parenting coaches, Jan and Jillian Yuhas. Today we’re discussing tools to become a better co-parent, divorced or not, so that your child(ren) is given the best life possible.
Jan Yuhas and Jillian Yuhas, MA, MFT, CPC are Family Mediators, Co-Parenting and Children of Divorce Coaches. They guide co-parents & children to overcome challenges of divorce through creative solutions that are children-centered. Their expertise is a blend of family psychology, certified family conflict resolution, negotiation strategy, healthy boundaries, and real-life experience to guide and serve all family members. You can learn more about Jan and Jillian through their mediation services and coaching programs at divorcefamilymediations.com**
Co-parenting is not easy. But with some practice, every person is capable of doing it - as long as you make the decision that your children are more important than your selfish motives. If you’re struggling to co-parent, start by answer the following questions:
- Do you want what’s best for your children?
- Do you want your children to succeed?
- Do you believe your ex/spouse also wants that?
Trusting each other to know that you both want your children to succeed is the starting point to effective co-parenting.
What is the best and most effective way to learn how to be a better parent and communicator? Ask more questions and do less talking. These questions will provide more insight and reduce assumptions and reactions. Also, make sure to avoid “why” questions as the other person may feel targeted or blamed.
- Can you help me understand what you mean by “x,y,z..”
- How did you come to that decision?
It’s important to consider HOW you’re communicating with your ex, too. If you’re still dealing with high emotions, stop texting and switch to email as they are less frequent. You may also consider using a co-parenting texting app, but Jill recommends NEVER strictly using phone calls as a method of communication when co-parenting.
If you’re dealing with an ex who has a high conflict personality disorder, please know there is hope. This is where coaches like Jan and Jillian are very much needed as they can teach non-aggressive parents tools to assert themselves. Consider working with a coach (even if it’s for a month or two) to learn the basic skill of communication and learn how to address common struggles or issues you may be having with the other parent.
Knowing how to co-parent respectfully and effectively will only help set up your children for success!
A custody evaluation is an extremely important part of a divorce case involving children. Without a custody evaluation, the part of the trial involving custody could spiral into a he-said, she-said situation in which everyone—especially the children—suffer. While this may be titled differently in each state, it still serves the same purpose of providing the court with unbiased information to make the right decisions about custody and parent time. In this episode, we’ll talk more about the purpose of custody evaluations, what is included, when they are needed, and who conducts them.
A custody evaluation is designed to provide the court with important information about you, the other parent, and your children so that the court can make a decision about what is in your child’s best interest. These are needed for very high-conflict divorces where both parties cannot come to an agreement for what is best in custody and parent time for your children. Custody evaluations are also helpful when dealing with abuse or personality disorders.
Custody evaluators are professionals who have training in child development and who are licensed by the state as either: social workers, psychologists, clinical mental health counselors, or marriage and family therapists. Once the court orders an evaluation and the fees are paid by both parties, custody evaluators will observe, record, interview, visit the home/school, and possibly administer psychological testing. The evaluator will then report their own conclusions and recommendations to the court.
There is no perfect way to divorce but there is a better way. Attorney Lesa Koski joins today with her 5 steps to get you to a better mindset for a successful mediation session. Tune in as we discuss the realm of possibilities on how to do divorce differently and better.After 18 years of Elder Law and Family Law, Lesa Koski brings extensive experience to the complex area of Mediation. In truth, Lesa Koski Mediates wherever she shows up. She is fully equipped with the communication skills that bring a taste of peace to the nastiest discrepancies.
Lesa's mission is to offer compassionate, complete, competent services while making her life such that it blesses humankind. This mission is palpable when you shake Lesa's hand. Clients love working with Lesa because she is trustworthy and capable. Above all, Lesa Koski is a brilliant communicator, bar none.
Mediation offers many potential benefits in family law cases. But before you even schedule it, you need to know the answers to these questions:
- What do you want?
- What are you willing to settle for?
- What is your bottom line?
- What is most important to you? Prioritize your list!
Lesa provides her clients with her “unintentional vs intentional model” :
C - Circumstance
T - Thought
F - Feeling
A - Action
R - Result
You can change the way you feel by changing your thoughts, as long as they’re believable. Having a good mindset before attending mediation is so important. You can find more information about her model by visiting her website: https://www.lesakoski.com/
While both of our approaches are different, neither are wrong! Don’t go into mediation without a plan. We're not pro divorce, but we are divorce pros. Save yourself time, money, and energy by following these tips!
Today we’re talking about what to do if your ex is not following the parenting plan and/or denying you time. These legal road maps detail how parents plan to communicate or co parent with each other after the divorce. If you’re being denied parent time or having to deal with an ex who is not following the plan, listen in to learn what I share with my clients and steps you can take to enforce the decree.
Show notes:
While these exist in all US states, we call them parenting plans in Utah. These are legal road maps for how parents plan to communicate or co parent with each other after the divorce. Further, it outlines how you’ll communicate about the children, things to watch out for, things not to do, and may or may not include a dispute resolution clause in the event neither of you can come to an agreement.
If your spouse isn’t following the parenting plan, you can take them back to court for enforcement assistance. I get that this may not be your first answer as it requires money, time, and maybe some negative emotions you don’t want to face right now. That is why I always tell my clients to wait until you have three major violations of the orders. Document these details in a journal and make sure to include dates, times, evidence (i.e.: texts, photos, school records, etc.). This will help your case when filing a motion for contempt to enforce the decree.
Remember, taking these actions to enforce the plan aren't for punishment, but for compliance. You can always seek attorneys fees to recover the time and money spent, if applicable.
**“It takes two years and then you’ll be great,” is what Nicea DeGering was told after her divorce. Divorce can be horrible, but it can also be amazing. It all depends on how you set your expectations and perspective. Today’s guest, Nicea DeGering, shares her journey to self-discovery and tips on how to move forward with life after divorce.
I met my guest today when I joined her ABC4 show, Good Things Utah, last year while promoting my book, No One Dies from Divorce.**
Nicea DeGering has been a television news reporter and anchor on ABC4, and now co-host of the Emmy award winning morning show Good Things Utah for more than two decades in Salt Lake City. She has covered stories like Elizabeth Smart’s disappearance and the 2002 Olympics, and interviewed everyone from presidential candidate Mitt Romney to superstar Garth Brooks. In her spare time, Nicea can be seen and heard on local tv and radio commercials, visiting her daughter in college at FIT in NYC or cheering on her high schooler at swim meets. Her favorite child is and will always be a fuzzy, blonde Goldendoodle named Miles.
Although so much damage is done during such a life event, it can be an incredible opportunity for personal growth that will allow you to understand yourself better, understand how to empathize with others better, and find a new and better way to navigate your journey through life-stronger than you have ever been.
Nicea got married in Utah pretty young (22), to her high school sweetheart and then was married for 24 years. Looking back now, she realizes how she lost herself along the way, and is now sharing the tips that have helped her live her best life after divorce. As you walk this path, consider this advice from her and Jill:
Find your tribe
- Be proactive in finding ways
- Change “what if” to “next time”
- Focus on what you want before you start thinking about how to get it
- Create your own opportunities
- Commit to your growth
- Rediscover your values
- Do things your love
- Be positive and a beacon for good
- Learn to be more empathetic and compassionate
- Forgive others and look forward
- Mend other relationships in your life
- Discover love again
Nicea compares life after divoce to the “butterfly effect”, as she continues to make small changes to discover more of who she is and what she wants. It’s time The hope she feels now, which took years to build up, has replaced the fear and anxiety of the unknown.
Divorcing should not be the end. It should be the fresh start to live your fullest life. Start by believing you are worthy of happiness!
In this episode, I’m answering all your questions about child therapy: When should you put your kids in therapy? Should all kids go to therapy during parental divorce? Do you need your spouse’s permission to put your child in therapy? How should you choose a therapist? And others.
I get a lot of questions from parents about therapy for their children: When it’s ok, should all kids whose parents are going through divorce go to therapy, do you need your spouse’s permission to put your kid in therapy? Therapy never hurts. It’s pretty emotional and life changing for kids when their parents divorce. They might have to move houses or schools in that same process. Make sure the therapist is specialized in the age range of your child. They would then have specialized training and experience. Kids communicate differently depending on their age. Kids that are too young to verbally express themselves can still do play therapy and other things. So do your research and find out what is best for your kids. Pre-pubescent kids to teenagers often most need therapy to help them process their feelings. Make sure you’re not using therapists as a way to get info or evidence against the other party. Therapy needs to be a safe space for kids. You should try to get your spouse’s permission for your child to do therapy, because this would be considered a major decision, which is supposed to be agreed upon together if you have joint legal custody.
Jill is joined by her CoilLaw associates, Luke Shaw and Corttany Brooks, to discuss the latest updates in celebrity divorces!
So much has developed in these celeb divorces (especially on social media) and we're here to discuss what NOT to do in a divorce.
Because some states have regulations about how long you have to wait before being granted a divorce after filing, many couples try to get a bifurcation first. Bifurcation means you are legally divorced and can get remarried, but your issues are still pending, like child custody and asset division. Listen in as I explain when it’s viable, and when you should just work toward divorce.
Bifurcation means you are legally divorced and can get remarried, but your issues are still pending, like child custody and asset division. I tell my clients we can try for it, but in Utah, they aren’t granted very often. The court tends to believe that if they hold the divorce over your head, it encourages quicker resolution. So bifurcations aren’t granted here very often. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt were able to get a bifurcation about 3 years after they filed. They still have not finalized their divorce, so maybe that’s part of why it has dragged on so long.
Premarital agreements are becoming more and more common. But does everyone need a prenup? And how do you make sure your prenup will be upheld? Do you need to hire an attorney to get a good prenup? And how long before the wedding should you be negotiating a prenup? Find out these answers and more on today’s episode, with Colorado attorney and marital agreement expert, Ryan Kalamaya.
Life is full of peaks and valleys. Ryan Kalamaya and his team meet people when they are suffering in an emotional valley and facing the prospect of climbing their own personal mountain. They sort through their baggage, help them plan their journey and guide them to the summit. Ryan is the managing partner of Kalamaya Goscha, an innovative and ambitious law firm that pushes the boundaries to discover new frontiers in family law, personal injuries, and criminal defense in Colorado. He is the co-host Divorce at Altitude: A Podcast on Colorado Family Law. Ryan specializes in divorces involving complex property valuations, including closely-held businesses, family partnerships, & trust interests, attacking or defending marital agreements, and parental relocation or high-conflict custody disputes. He was named to the Rising Stars list by Super Lawyers for 5 years before being selected to Super Lawyers for 2022. He has a 10/10 rating by Avvo where there are over 80 client reviews and testimonials.
Millennials seem to be more open to premarital agreements, possibly because they saw their parents go through a divorce; they also seem to be more pragmatic. A lot of people today are getting married a lot later in life and often then have more assets going into marriage. A lot of celebrities end up attacking or having to defend their pre-nup agreements (like Dr. Dre, Kelly Clarkson, etc.).
A premarital agreement or prenup spells out what happens if there is a divorce or death. There is also a marital or post-nup, which is created after a marriage has already started. The purpose is to lay out who gets what and to have predictability. A premarital agreement means nothing unless the spelled out scenario actually happens.
Does everyone need a prenup? Probably not. But certainly it’s never a bad idea.
What do you need to do to ensure your prenup agreement will hold up? In Utah and Colorado, there’s a uniform act. Prenups and marital agreements are a special kind of contract. They’ve been around for centuries. Their purpose was to spell out what happened in 2nd and 3rd marriages. Now we use them for divorce for 1st marriages. They have to include financial disclosures. It’s a simple net worth statement. Hiding assets will never go over well in a prenup. And they have to be voluntary. Does an attorney have to be involved to draft and file these? At least meet with an attorney to ask questions and explain any of the legal meanings if you’re going to buy a boiler-plate prenup document to sign.
Don’t wait until the last minute to negotiate premarital agreements. It’s important to have each party have an attorney. This is the best way to get an enforceable agreement. You need to be prepared to not sign a premarital agreement and walk away from the wedding if what you are being asked to sign is completely one sided. Even if you don’t feel you are bringing as much to the marriage as far as assets or potential earnings. Have the hard conversations now. And find a local and experienced attorney: family law attorney or estate planning. Ask if they’ve had any experience litigating the challenge or defense of pre-nups.
Ways to attack a premarital agreement’s validity:
- Unconscionability - may be present if the agreement is patently unfair to one party.
- failure to disclose, or
- duress and coercion.
**Though most parents do pay child support, there are instances where you or your ex can’t or won’t. Whether the parent is able but refusing, unemployed, on social security, or owns their own business and doesn’t seem to have a regular or trackable income, listen in for what options you have and how you can ensure your children receive financial support.
Most people pay child support because they love their kids and want to take care of them. If your spouse is refusing to pay or evading child support, the attorney general’s office, no matter what state you are in, should have a division in the assistance of child support collection. In Utah, it’s called the Office of Recovery Services (ORS). You’ll want to go online and set up an account and ask them to garnish child support from your spouse. They do this for free because it’s a state agency. The exception is if your ex owns a business and is in charge of their own payroll or if they are on social security, since that’s not garnishable, or if they work odd jobs for cash that isn’t trackable. If this is your situation, you can do a motion to enforce the order. Judges can put someone in jail right from the courthouse if it’s clear your ex isn’t making an effort. If you are unemployed and receiving unemployment payments, you should pay the same percentage of that paycheck as you were paying from your previous paycheck. That shows you’re trying to do your part and the judges will try to work with you. Child support is for your kids. Just pay it.**
**Dating can be overwhelming for anyone in today’s world of apps and social media. But even more so for divorcees who may not have used any technology to date in their first marriage. Dating coach and matchmaker Jade Bianca offers safety tips, realistic expectations, and hope for people who are looking to date again.
Jade is a certified matchmaker & dating expert. She founded Dating After Divorce to provide divorced men and women with the effective tools, communication, and insight it takes to find a worthwhile partner. Jade offers coaching, dating profile assistance, and matchmaking services.**
Jade is passionate about helping individuals find their confidence in dating again. She loves assisting clients in the US & Canada in their dating after divorce journey. Find out more at datingafterdivorce.com
One of the biggest mistakes people make after divorce is jumping right into a new relationship without working on yourself first. You need to reflect on what role you played in the end of the marriage. That accountability leads to healing. It’s important to not date someone too similar to your ex and you need to know how to set boundaries and look for red flags. If you aren’t used to feeling lonely, you may want to quickly fill that void with a new relationship. But that indicates a scarcity mindset. You need to enjoy being by yourself before you can enjoy being with someone else. You have to have realistic expectations for a partner. If you have a negative mindset, you’ll only be able to see the negative.
Tips for dating in today’s age:
- Don’t expect chemistry immediately; 1 date isn’t usually enough to establish whether you are compatible or not (unless you get the heebie jeebies or a spidey sense that the person isn’t safe).
- ask to do a video call if you’ve only met them online, to make sure they are real.
- Don’t ever give someone money if they ask; that’s likely a scam.
- Make sure photos of you online don’t have personal metadata for people to be able to locate you (don’t post a photo of you in front of your house where your house number is shown).
- Try someone who’s not your typical type. Try dating someone who is the opposite of your ex. Put yourself out there and try out new things.
**Spending Valentine’s Day alone might not be your number one choice. However, spending the day alone is a lot better than staying in a bad marriage. Though your first year as a divorced person may be difficult, spending the holiday alone doesn’t have to be an emotionally devastating event. You can be your own Valentine this year, and you can make it a day all about self-care and relaxation.
Do not feel guilty about self-care when being your own valentine! Here are some tips:**
- Do something for your mental health: Wherever you are in the divorce process, seeking help from a mental health professional should be a priority. Therapy does wonders to help you cope and move forward.
- Do something for your physical health: Plan ahead! Get a massage, take a walk, join a gym class.
- Do something for your emotional health: Whatever it is that you do to spoil yourself, make sure it’s something totally just for you. Remember, there are no rules about who can be your Valentine. So, if you’re your own Valentine this year, the ball is 100% in your court and you are fully responsible for making this day awesome and all about you.
- Spend time with your loved ones!
Past divorce client, entrepreneur, organizer of the Integrated Men community, and my friend, Adeel George, joins me to discuss why “nice guys' often get stuck in middle management of life. Find out how to stop playing it safe, not play the victim in divorce, build a supportive community, and achieve your potential.
Adeel is a user experience professional, but through his personal experiences of divorce and subsequent journey of self-discovery, he has accepted his calling to help other men find community among men. Many men have trouble in relationships, whether it's building healthy relationships or finding the right partner. In this day and age, more boys are being raised by single mothers with absentee fathers; as a result, there are fewer strong male role models. These boys grow up into men confused, isolated, and disconnected. Another unintended consequence is the delayed maturity amongst modern men who struggle with their inner turmoil.
Alongside his passion for building communities, Adeel is a father, an entrepreneur, and any spare time he has he spends it pursuing his love for travel and photography. Learn more about Adeel's work at https://integratedmen.net.
Nice guys play it safe in all aspects of their life, but that prevents them from achieving their potential. A lot of “nice guys'' have absentee fathers or didn’t feel like they could be heard by their parents. Fathers rights in Utah don’t have a presumption of custody. Utah looks at who is the primary caretaker of the child to determine custody. It really discounts the breadwinner role that most fathers play and is pretty gender biased.
We’re talking about fathers who want to be a caretaker and the dad has historically been the provider but didn’t play as big of a role in the “caretaker” tasks, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t play an important emotional role or from wanting to step more into the caretaker role post divorce.
His first attorney told him he couldn’t hope for more than 35% custody of his kids as a father. He didn’t know enough back then to look for a different attorney. His divorce was finalized in 2013, and for the first few years, he was able to have almost 50% custody unofficially. But then his ex wanted to revert him to less time, so Adeel spent the next 3 years and paid a lot of money to legally get 50% custody.
Adeel carried the torch for the No More Mr. Nice Guys group. It’s a place to meet new people and find guy friends. People feel safe to talk about their struggles, from divorce to pornography. Especially if they aren’t willing to go to therapy. Adeel then encourages people to find a good therapist that you vibe with. The only way to get rid of shame is by sharing it with others, so you can’t just do self-therapy.
Friendship is so important when you’re going through a divorce. Loneliness is real, and jumping right back into a romantic relationship isn’t the best type of companionship when you’re in this state.
It’s ok to be angry at women/your spouse for a bit, but you need to be able to get past it. You don’t want to make emotional decisions or reactions out of anger when you’re in the legal system. It never benefits you, and it definitely never benefits your kids.
Tips if you’re going through divorce/lessons learned:
- Begin with self-care. Prioritize and invest in yourself.
- Take a look at your dreams and honor them. Find and pursue your passion, whether that’s via your career or hobby. Find things that add value to your life.
- Make guy friends: people you can trust and be authentic around
Most everyone who gets divorce does some kind of mediation. Because there’s so many types of mediators, I’m giving you my tips on what to look for in a mediator. Listen in for how you can prepare before going into mediation—and how to have the most successful outcome.
Show notes:
Most divorces that are litigated go through mediation at some point. There’s lots of types of collaborative mediation and law. There are mediators out there where you go meet with the mediator with your ex, no attorneys needed, and your mediator drafts the stipulation documents. Most of the time, those mediators are not attorneys. They are great at communicating and compromising, but you should not take legal advice for them, and they really shouldn’t be drafting your divorce documents. If you go this route, I recommend taking the documents and paying an attorney (don’t need to retain them) to look over them and just meet with them for an hour or two. In Utah, if you file for divorce, you have to mediate before you go to trial. We resolve about 90% of our cases before they go to trial. But sometimes that takes multiple mediation sessions. In those cases, both parties are there with their attorneys, along with the mediator. Your attorneys are really your advocates. The mediator is trying to get you to settle and compromise. I really recommend having both people in the room for their own expertise. I don’t push my clients into mediation until they’re ready. If you are still too emotional and trying to rush into mediation, you often don’t get results the first time. Usually in mediation, you don’t even have to sit in the same room with your ex. You’re in 2 rooms and the mediator goes back and forth. Make sure before you go into mediation, you know what you want, what you’re willing to settle for, and what your bottom line is. Rank your top 5 things that you’re hoping for so you know how to prioritize at least your top 1 or 2 things. You have to be able to let the small things go. Don’t fight over Christmas tree ornaments or the teapot. Most everything is replaceable. No one wins in divorce. But if you go into mediation knowing those 3 things, you’ll likely be able to reach a livable settlement.
It’s been 6 years since Brangelina filed for divorce, and although they finally achieved a bifurcated divorce, they are still dividing and fighting over assets and custody and parent time for their 6 kids. Join me and fellow divorce attorney, Corttany Brooks, as we discuss the messy, expensive, and ongoing drama and speculation over this Hollywood ex-couple.
Show notes:
I have Corttany Brooks back on the show for this celebrity episode to discuss the ongoing drama of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Corttany, again, is a Utah family law attorney that works with me at Coillaw, but she actually grew up in Indiana. She moved to Utah last year and joined my firm, but was a prosecutor specializing in special victim cases and domestic violence in Indianapolis. She brings this empathy to the family law firm, and quickly picked up Utah law. She got her bachelors in journalism from Ohio University and her JD from Maurer School of Law at Indiana University, so she’s licensed now in Utah and Indiana.
Divorce was filed September 2016 and it’s still not done. Brad and Angelina got together around 2005 (while filming Mr. and Mrs. Smith) while he was still with Jennifer Aniston. They have 6 kids together (2 bio kids and 4 adopted kids). Brad adopted the kids Angelina had when they got married. They were together for about 10 years before they even got married. Angelina filed for the divorce and cited irreconcilable differences. We rarely use fault as a consideration in divorce. Angelina mentioned they were doing it for the health of the family. There were a lot of disagreements over co-parenting. There were apparently allegations of child abuse against Brad. It was under FBI jurisdiction because the one incident that allegedly happened happened while on their plane. The allegation led to Angelina having the upper hand with custody. Unfortunately, even if the allegations later come out to be false, there’s no reparations legally for the missed out time for the parent accused.
She also accused him of drunkenness and smoking weed. We always advise our clients who are accused of things like this to just submit to drug tests so you can prove your innocence. For the temporary custody agreement, Angelina had full custody with Brad just having supervised visitation. A month after the divorce, the FBI said they had never opened an investigation because there was no case. Angelina did uphold the agreements. On Nov. 4, 2016, we find out that Brad is seeking joint custody. (Angelina was seeking sole custody.) Brad gets cleared of all the charges by both FBI and child services. In 2017, they decided to put their divorce on hold. In 2018, she started accusing him of not paying child support. Brad adamantly refuted it. They eventually got a bifurcated divorced (which is super rare). So they are legally divorced in April of 2019, with property and custody to be settled at a future later time. There are no more hearings until January 2021. The judge ruled that there would be shared custody and parent time. Brad was elated and Angelina was upset and tried to disqualify the judge, which she did succeed on. Brad appealed that. They were still fighting over the chateau property until last year.
**The answer to this question may surprise or frustrate you. But I’m outlining how child support is often split and why, so you can stop worrying about it and shift your mindset. Remember that if you are blessed to make more money than your ex-spouse, it’s your privilege and responsibility to make sure your kids’ needs are taken care of.
You don’t get to decide how your ex spends the child support money; they get to spend it on how they deem appropriate. This may sound frustrating to you, but keep in mind a few things. Child support goes to the lower-income spouse. It varies by the state on how much child support is assigned to each spouse. In Texas, child support is calculated by percentage of income. In Utah, it’s calculated by how many overnights each parent has with the kids. If you and your ex have 50-50 custody with your kids, expenses don’t get cut in half just because your kids are only with you half the time. You still both each have to pay your whole rent or mortgage, utility bills, and you’ll have to have clothes and shoes and bedding for your kids at each house. Remember that if you are blessed to be making a lot more money than your ex, it’s your privilege and responsibility as a parent to make sure your kids are taken care of, no matter where they are. Decide to make paying child support and any additional needs your kids have, an honor to pay. Also remember that you’ll be paying your portion of medical expenses and such on top of child support; those types of expenses are not included in child support in Utah. That’s why Utah child support amounts are usually low in Utah. In many other states, that’s all rolled into child support, which makes those payments average higher. So just don’t worry about how your ex is spending the child support money, unless there are major issues like the kids don’t have heat or water when they’re there. But if your kid needs another pair of shoes to be comfortable, even if you think your spouse should have purchased them, just buy them and don’t worry about it.**
Summary:
Divorce in itself is hard. When you’re trying to divide a business as part of the divorce, the possibility for complication and messiness goes way up. Today’s guest is an expert in corporate law and business valuation, and we’re discussing our top “what not to do’s” when it comes to setting up a business, valuing a business, and dividing up a business when you get divorced.
Today we’re talking about getting divorced when you have a business, whether you own or co-own, and what happens with the business. Today’s guest is a personal friend who happens to be an expert on this subject.
Curtis Anderson is a professor at the BYU Law School. He joined the BYU Law faculty in 2015. Prior to that he was an Executive Vice President and General Counsel of Match Group, which owns and operates the world’s largest online dating platforms including match.com, Tinder, meetic, okcupid and over 40 other brands. Match Group’s market capitalization is currently over $45 billion. Prior to joining Match Group, he was a partner in the Dallas office of Baker Botts, an international law firm with 13 offices in seven countries. He earned an undergraduate and law degree from BYU.
Most people don’t pay an attorney to set up their business. It is usually more expensive to clean it up later if you grow. It’s not that hard to do it right the first time, even if you do it yourself. Founders need to consider these 3 things:
Capitalization- someone has to put in the initial capital. Need it documented who owns what and how much
Decision making- how are decisions made? Is it majority or unanimous?
Exit strategies- who and when do people have the right to leave, and what are the terms?
Is your business considered a marital-owned business or not? You need to know your state laws, because the assets of the business may be considered joint, even if your spouse isn’t officially documented as a business owner.
There is a difference between asset and income stream. These are divided differently. Make sure your attorney understands and has experience in dividing businesses in divorce.
How do you determine value in business? NOT tax returns. Financial statements are a better look.
Biggest mistakes in dividing business in divorce:
- not putting in protections ahead of time when people are less emotional and biased.
- do a prenup agreement if you have business before marriage
- do a postnup agreement if you’re building a business during the marriage
- write up business organization documents and include any spouse of any partners to protect business assets
- getting too emotional or vindictive about dividing the business and forking over tons of money to attorneys when that money could be for you and your ex and your kids.
Summary:
Utah is the one of just a handful of states that do actually allow you to sue your spouse for cheating, but winning these cases is quite rare, and it’s important to understand that Alienation of Affection cases are actually a civil lawsuit, not a family lawsuit. So the question isn’t CAN you, but SHOULD you move forward with an alienation of affection suit? I explain why I don’t usually recommend it, and what I DO recommend. Listen to find out.
Show notes:
Utah is the one of just a handful of states that allow you to sue your spouse for cheating, but there are very specific conditions, and winning these cases is quite rare. Alienation of affection cases are actually a civil lawsuit, not a family lawsuit, so if you really do want to make this case, you will likely need to hire a civil lawyer and not a divorce attorney. But SHOULD you move forward with an alienation of affection? I usually advise clients not to. You have to prove that the person who your spouse cheated with knew you were happily married, groomed and/or coerced your spouse into the sexual relationship with your spouse, and that this directly led to the divorce. It’s hard to prove that there were zero other issues in your marriage. And anything less than a sexual affair isn’t enough. You also have to show that there is emotional distress and damage as well as loss of consortium. You’re trying to show the judge that there is a financial loss that needs restitution. You must be confident enough in your case that you are willing to front the money for legal fees and attorneys. If you do win, you still have to figure out how to collect that money; if they don’t have money, is it even worth it? So when people ask me if they can hire me to sue their spouse, I usually explain that the better path is divorce. There is actually the ability to use “fault” in your divorce case, which is then when you could bring some of these things up, and that could help you get more alimony, so it’s a safer option. And if your spouse cheated and you aren’t able to get past, it may just be time anyway to get a divorce.
**While annulments and legal separations are much less common than divorces, there are a few times that it makes sense, but there are certain qualifications that you have to meet to consider them. Listen in while I spell out the differences, and when it makes sense to choose these rare types of separation.
An annulment means the marriage never happened, or was not legally valid. It’s very rare to qualify for an annulment. In Utah, to qualify for an annulment, you have to meet 1 or more of 4 specific requirements, like if it was fraudulent, a spouse was still married to someone else, you married someone closer than a 2nd cousin, or were younger than 18.**
Legal separation is also rare. It might make sense if you belong to a religion that bars divorce or if there is an immigration issue. You aren’t technically divorced but you have a legal order that outlines how you interact and co-parent. But you can’t get married again without getting a divorce.
**Prolific DC divorce attorney, Michelle Thomas, and I are discussing industry secrets and tips about how to hire the best attorney for your case, how lawyers bill clients, and how to avoid costly mistakes in your divorce.
Show Notes:
Don’t treat your attorney like your therapist! Let us handle the legal stuff so you can focus on your mental and emotional health. Find a therapist, friend circle, spiritual advisor, etc.**
Hiring the right attorney for you is one of the most important decisions about your divorce.
How to hire the right lawyer for your case:
- Ask for referrals from friends and colleagues
- Do initial consultations with at least 2 attorneys. Ask:
- what percentage of your practice is devoted to family law?
- are you a trial lawyer or settlement lawyer?
- do you have time to take my case? Find out how fast you can expect responses/communication from them.
- Make sure all your questions have been answered clearly by the end of the consultation so you can make an informed decision.
How to save money during a divorce:
- Be cooperative with your lawyer; comply with their requests and needs and organize your records for them so you don’t have to pay them to do that. If they have to follow up with you repeatedly, that will add up too.
- Be mindful of how much you talk to your lawyer. Is this really something you need to speak to your attorney about? Or can you talk to your therapist or vent to a friend?
- If you are seeking revenge on your spouse, that will cost you. The more contentious your divorce is, the more filings your attorney will have to file. Can’t be petty; have to be willing and ready to negotiate.
Though I recommend consulting a tax accountant for any specific questions you may have about filing taxes during or after divorce, I offer some basic tips and information regarding whether you should file separately or jointly, who gets the tax exemption on alimony and child support, and who should claim your kids as dependents on their tax returns.
If you are married as of Dec. 31 of any given year, you can file as jointly married, even if you were separated the whole year. You often get a lot of tax breaks by filing jointly, so I usually recommend filing jointly if you can. If you file separately, know that you will have to come to an agreement about who claims the kids for the year. If you don’t have an agreement, it’s basically a race to whoever files first and puts the kids’ social security number on their taxes. As of a few years ago, alimony and child support are not tax deductible for the person paying it.
**After 2 divorces, being overweight, and living a life ruled by fear and feelings of inadequacy, Mary Crafts stopped playing the victim. She lost 27% of her body fat, climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro at age 65, and is crafting a meaningful and fearless life as a single woman who is enough just being herself. Join our discussion about healing from abuse and fear, and the difference between “love” the noun and “love” the verb.
Mary Crafts is… quite simply…. a living legend. From humble beginnings and dire circumstances, she invested blood, sweat, and countless tears into building what would become the most celebrated catering company in Utah.**
That multi-million dollar empire became the launching pad for so much more. Today, Mary has handed the reins of her catering empire to her incredibly gifted children who have taken her company to the next level, while Mary turns her attention to helping others build their dreams.
Whether those dreams are centered around business, family, or personal growth, Mary is ready to engage her expertise, assets, and energy into helping others build and grow! Has a new book coming out: “Unbounded.” https://marycraftsinc.com/, https://www.instagram.com/marycrafts/
Mary went into her first marriage full of fear but good at hiding her fears and putting walls up. Got married at 27 and felt like damaged goods because of a really hard break up from a previous relationship who told her she wasn’t pretty enough; felt rejected and not enough and felt like she had to settle. Her 1st husband had some anger issues, paranoia, bipolar, etc. Later came out as gay. Was married to him for 28 years. She was physically abused on her honeymoon and wanted to leave the marriage, but then found out she was pregnant, and was told by her religious leader that she couldn’t just leave the marriage after 1 month, especially because she was pregnant. She felt the weight of the world on her shoulders to make it work and single-handedly save the marriage and the family; felt like it was her calling or mission in this life. Was afraid of being alone and having no help with the children. After divorce, married her 2nd husband a year later as a sort of rebound. Got divorced after 5 years. Climbed Mount Kilimanjaro at age 65.
The holidays can be hard on people going through a divorce, especially the first year. You’re grieving the death of your marriage and sometimes have loneliness or silence for the first time in a while. You’re not alone! So many people feel this way, and it’s normal and understandable. Embrace it! Know it won’t last forever.
The holidays can be hard on people going through a divorce, especially the first year. You’re grieving the death of your marriage and sometimes have loneliness or silence for the first time in a while. You’re not alone! So many people feel this way, and it’s normal and understandable. Find others going through the same thing or who have been through it; find your tribe. You need to sit in your sadness but be supported and heard through that. Embracing your loneliness means relishing the quiet and enjoy some silence and “you” time. Know that this won’t last forever. Work on yourself and do things you haven’t been able to do in a while. Find creative ways to show your real loved ones, your chosen loved ones, that you care. Find or work on a hobby that’s just for you. Don’t feel guilty for spending time or energy on yourself. You deserve it and are worthy of it, and you need to find your own happiness within so you have more in your cup to help others. Your kids don’t care whether they are celebrating with you on actual Christmas or any other day; make the holidays as magical with them as you want and they will feel it. Make this holiday season the best ever!
We are grateful for your support, listeners! While we are done producing full episodes this year, we will be uploading a few more mini episodes for you to listen and learn from.
If you're interested in joining the podcast, please email Community@JillCoil.com!
Happy Holidays and Remember No One Dies from Divorce !
While some states have a clear-cut date every year of when to exchange your kids during the holidays, Utah divides up parent-time based on the amount of overnights that the winter break is, based on your school district. It’s confusing; let me attempt to make this clear as mud so you don’t run into issues or accidental contempt because you didn’t understand it.
Show notes:
This is specific to Utah and Texas, but most states handle holiday parent-time fairly similarly. 30-3-35 is the Utah code that specifically outlines the holidays. If you have joint custodial parent-time, you would split the winter break equally. You’ll need to look at your child’s winter break schedule based on their school district. If they do online/home school through a district, you’ll follow the school district’s schedule that you do it through or live in. So if there are 16 nights of winter break, each parent would get 8 overnights, switching halfway through. If it’s an odd number of days, you’ll split the odd day at 1:00 pm. If you don’t have this outlined already in your decree and are having a dispute, you’ll need to deal with this well before the holidays, since courts are closed over the holidays, and attorneys and mediators are usually very busy.
**If you’re struggling in your divorce, stop and close your eyes. Today I’m guiding you through some breathing and mindfulness. Then, let’s figure out what you can learn from this experience. Starting anew might feel daunting. But it actually might be the best thing that ever happened to you. It’s never too late to learn and grow and dream.
Having a clean slate can be so powerful! If you’re struggling, don’t underestimate the art of breathing; stop and breathe. Stop and close your ideas and center yourself. Think about something that brings you joy and think about that while you breathe in and out. You will be ok. Hang on to those thoughts of joy. Figure out what you can learn from your divorce or hardship. It’s hard to sit in failure or disappointment. But these are the very best moments of growth and learning. Learn to be more present, how to communicate, how to find happiness within, how to be a better person. Start dreaming again and then make a plan to make those dreams happen. Keep a journal so you can learn from yourself! Make new friends and find a support system. Find connection and intimacy with other (not talking about sex). Take control of your finances. It’s never too late to learn and grow. Read a book.**
**Since the couple’s divorce in 2017, Johnny Depp and Amber Heard have been in legal battles both in the U.S. and U.K. over libel, defamation, and abuse claims. Attorney Sterling Swank and I discuss the details, legalities, and rumors.
Sterling R. Swank was born in Utah but had the opportunity to live all over the country including time spent in Tennessee, Georgia, Washington state, and most recently in Iowa. Sterling received his bachelor’s degree in Philosophy from the University of Utah. After graduating from the U he packed up his bags and moved to the Midwest. Three years later he received his Juris Doctorate from Drake University Law School in Des Moines, Iowa.**
After graduating from law school, Sterling made the trip back to Utah and joined the Utah State Bar in 2019 and then CoilLaw as an Associate Attorney shortly after. Prior to becoming a part of the CoilLaw team, Sterling worked in the Drake Legal Clinic providing legal services for criminal defense clients and to young people facing juvenile delinquency charges.
Sterling has a passion for the legal system and ensuring the best outcomes for his clients and their families. In his off-time Sterling loves spending time outdoors camping, hiking, or taking a scenic ride on his motorcycle.
The case is interesting because these types of cases happen sometimes, but it is usually a female filing an abuse claim against a male, and here it’s swapped.
Amber Heard (Aquaman) and Johnny Depp started dating in 2012 after The Rum Diary movie (2011). Depp has 2 children from a previous marriage. Johnny’s exes (Vanessa Paradis and Winona Ryder) both came out saying that these abuse claims were totally out of character for Johnny for what they knew of him.
Divorce was finalized in 2017. Heard received 7 million dollars, which she apparently donated to charity. Depp has shown a history of being irresponsible with money. They both agreed they wouldn’t say anything disparaging about the other party. This is a standard agreement in most divorces.
He sued her for libel, and then she came out with a lot of allegations against him.
Whether you’re dealing with the distribution of marital assets, fighting for custody, appraising a business, or dealing with other issues, an expert can provide compelling insights into your case. In this mini tips episode, I explain the roles and value of various experts included in family law.
Today I’m talking to Jason Hewlett, the only speaker in the world teaching leadership in a performance of uncanny musical and comedy impressions, utilizing the legends of stage. Jason’s book, The Promise to the One, discusses the importance of making and keeping promises to ourselves, which is something we tend to forget while going through divorce. We cannot feel fulfilled and show up for everyone else if we continually break promises to ourselves.
We don’t get married with the intent of divorce, but the reality is 50% of all marriages will end in divorce. The most important thing a Prenup can do is protect wealth, property, business ownership, separate property etc. that you developed and/or received prior to marrying your spouse. Work with an attorney in advance to methodically write up your prenuptial and do not wait until the day of your wedding to present it to them.
Sam Sorensen is an experienced and respected attorney, guardian ad litem, and special master in Utah. Today we’re breaking down Latin terms and legal jargon to help you understand when and why you may consider a GAL or special master in your custody battle over your kids.
Sam is a member of the Family Law section of the Utah State Bar, a Private Guardian ad Litem, a Special Master, and a Judge Pro Tem for Salt Lake City and Summit County Justice Courts.What is a Guardian ad Litem (GAL)?
There are both public and private GALs. They are appointed by the court when there’s a high-conflict divorce or there are any issues of abuse. They are an attorney that represents the best interests of the children to the court. The parents pay the GAL fee; usually the parties split the fee. If you want a good GAL with experience, you’ll be paying a premium. Usually needed if there are any abuse or neglect allegations. Or if there is a special needs child. And it’s helpful for parents to hear things from a third party, especially if there is a dispute about the wishes of the child (ages 7-16 usually) for custody. Or if there is a lot of conflict with the parents of what to do about a difficult child or a child struggling to want to have parent time with a certain party. The GAL can help get to the bottom of why a child might be hesitant, or recommend therapy or a parent-time change.
What is a Special Master?
Does not have to be an attorney, but is a delegated court authority and needs to have some experience and knowledge about current legal considerations. The parties will agree to appoint a special master to be a third party to help solve disputes. Usually are able to rule faster than a court; they are a quasi-judge with certain authority from the court. Helpful to keep one of the parties from repeatedly dragging the other party back to court. Usually assigned after the case if there’s still conflict navigating the divorce decree. But choosing one is similar to choosing GAL; ask for referrals from respected attorneys to find out what special masters are respected by the court.
As a parent, what can you do to help your child prepare to meet with a GAL?
Let them know what’s happening and that the GAL is meant to help them. Reassure them that they can be open and honest. Make sure you’re not coaching or influencing or leading them on what to say.
What is Parental Alienation? And how can you deal with it?
Party makes child feel guilty for wanting to spend time with the other parent, use gatekeeping, etc. It’s not helpful to label a parent as this, and neither parent or GAL is qualified to diagnose that anyway. If there’s parent-child estrangement, both parents need to get into behavioral cognitive therapy, whether you’re the favored parent or not. It’s usually not completely the other parent’s fault. How can you take some responsibility and work on yourself to improve the situation?
As a parent, what should you look for in a GAL?
Somebody that has courtroom experience, understanding of the current social research and child psychology, legal knowledge of case law in divorce and custody. Someone that the commissioners respect the GAL’s opinion (ask for referral from a respected divorce attorney).
GAL mandatory reporting (and teachers, hospital staff, therapists): Child abuse, computer crimes, elderly abuse. Parents are not mandatory reporters by law. Probably best for parent to report things to the special master or GAL or therapist unless it’s abuse. Effect of a professional reporting will have a stronger implication than if a parent is reporting. At least for subsequent offenses.
In this mini tips episode, I explain when you would want to prove you had a common law marriage with a partner, even if you never officially got married. Albeit a confusing legal road, proving common law marriage and then getting a divorce is more inexpensive and likely to receive alimony than if you have to go through civil court to divide assets when your relationship ends.
Show notes:
Common law marriage means that you possibly have been together with a person for a length of time but haven’t gotten married. In Utah that’s called “common law marriage,” but it may be called different things in other states, or not be recognized at all.
In Utah if you’re looking at separating from your long-term partner and therefore want to show that you were in a common law marriage with them, you have to prove that you’ve cohabited, shared the likeness of being married to the world (such as wearing rings or referring to each other as spouses), and acted as if you were married (like filing joint tax returns together, shared bank accounts, purchased real estate together, etc.).
So if you’re looking for post-separation alimony or support, you’ll need to prove and show evidence that you had a common law marriage. Your partner may likely contest it if they don’t want to be responsible for paying those things.
In Utah, there’s a statute of limitations of 1 year from time of breakup. So you only have one year to prove that you had a common law marriage. It’s not super common in Utah because we have such a high marriage rate, so make sure you find an attorney that has experience with common law marriage.
The court will then backdate a “marriage date” based on the evidence (such as the date you bought a house together, for example), and that’s the date they will use in determining how long a partner is eligible to receive alimony post-split (since alimony is usually based on length of marriage).
Some states have made cohabitation laws that will make things easier for splitting up assets. But in Utah, we don’t have that, so you’ll have to pay court fees and hire attorneys that specialize in this. So in Utah, if you’re not married and you’re trying to get court help for dividing assets, and you’re not going the common law marriage route, you actually have to go through civil court instead of domestic court, and you’ll need to pay the civil law court fees (which are double the domestic law fees) and find civil law attorneys to help. If you want to show there was a common law marriage, you can hire a family law attorney and go through domestic court.
You can draft up relationship contracts (similar to pre-nup or post-nup documents) where you outline income and expenses and how things will be divided regarding pre-relationship assets and money and then assets and income earned in the duration of the relationship. It’s a good idea to do if you’re purchasing property together with someone you’re not married to.
Today, happiness guru Melissa Bright and I are sharing our trials, how we got through them, and what we learned from them. Listen to our tips for getting through the grief cycle, choosing happiness, and knowing you’re never alone.
Show notes:
I am the host and creator of The Bright Side of Life Podcast. On my podcast I talk to people that have been through struggles and pains in their life and how they found their path back to the bright side, (whatever that means to them).
I believe that happiness and looking on the bright side is all about mindset, and these stories navigate and discuss people's successful journeys to happiness. Some of my topics have included: divorce, cancer survivor, trauma, suicide prevention, abandonment, addiction, finding God, therapy, and many more. Find out more at www.thebrightsideoflifepodcast.com
Melissa had her daughter at age 16 and lost her mom, who was her best friend and support, when she was 26. She doesn’t want anyone to feel alone like she did for a long time. Everyone is going through some kind of struggle. Keep that in mind and show compassion and kindness for everyone.
Remember that social media is a lie. It’s not a true portrait of who someone is.
What is the biggest misunderstanding of happiness?
It’s not a destination or future goal that it is only attached to or some sort of level. Living in each present moment and looking for the positive is the most important thing you can do and is the only thing you can really control. Choose happiness.
What’s the first step in finding joy and positivity through struggles?
You need to feel them instead of avoid them. Sit with your feelings, even the negative ones, and know that this is not the end. It can’t always be perfect but you can find and feel happiness again.
The next step is therapy. You need to understand and learn about the grieving process and what that looks like and feels like for you. It helps you understand you’re not the first or last person to feel a certain way or experience a certain situation. Therapists can educate you and validate you and your feelings. Avoidance is never final; it will eventually come out.
Everyone shows up during a tragedy; divorce, funeral, etc. But maybe show up for people a month later, because that’s when they will probably really need it. Helping people makes people happy. Ask for help. Help others even when you’re sad. Allow yourself time to grieve and be sad. Allow yourself some indulgence. Make time for your hobbies. Savor your positive experiences. Make goals. Look for gratitude. Set yourself up for success by doing things for yourself that make you happy. You have to be responsible for your own happiness and mental health. Make time for self care, see a therapist, take your prescribed prescriptions. There’s no shame in any of these things.
When your ex breaks court orders, you need to take timely action. There is a statute of limitations of 4 years in Utah for missed child support, for example. Listen in as I discuss specifically what action you can take when, and how to navigate these circumstances.
Show notes:
Say you have an order signed by a judge (whether it’s something like a mutual restraining order, which is pretty standard as part of a divorce decree, or a or a temporary order) and you hear your ex is doing the opposite of or breaking the order in some way. You need to write it down with what is happening and include dates. Don’t interrogate your kids or make them feel bad for telling you. First figure out if you can address this with your ex spouse. Do it in writing; email is best. Tell them what you heard, communicate that it’s a violation in your eyes, and ask them if it’s true. This shows you’re trying to be a mature person and trying to resolve it on your own first (which courts love). And then you get your ex’s response, whether it admits something and apologizes, or shows their immaturity or unwillingness to work with you (either response will help). If the order has been violated 3 times willfully (knew the order and purposefully disregarded it), that’s when I would recommend filing a motion for contempt. You’ll need to hire an attorney, which costs money. But if you have 3 violations, you have enough evidence to make a good case to the court and very possibly may be awarded sanctions (including attorney fees), so it’s more likely to be worth it to take it to court. Don’t wait too long to enforce orders. There are statutes of limitation on court orders. In Utah, there is a 4-year limit on missed child support. First go to your state attorney general’s system for child support collection. In Utah it’s ORS (Office of Recovery Services). They can automatically draw child support money from wages or whatnot. The purpose is to bring the party into compliance, not to punish the person.
Attorney, mediator, therapist, and author—Bill Eddy—provides us with a master class of techniques he has perfected over his 30-year career in high-conflict divorce. Get his BIFF communication method, 4 co-parenting rules, and top 3 parenting tips of all time—right here on the podcast!
Bill Eddy, LCSW, Esq. developed the high conflict personalitytheory to explain the driving forces behind people who present the most challenging behaviors. He is an expert on managing disputes involving high conflict situations and 5 high conflict personality types, including a subset of those with narcissistic, borderline, antisocial, histrionic, and paranoid personality disorders. He has trained over 200,000 professionals in 10 countries on understanding and managing high conflict disputes, including lawyers, judges, mediators, managers, human resource professionals, businesspersons, healthcare administrators, college administrators, homeowners’ association managers, law enforcement, therapists and others.
He serves on the faculty of the Straus Institute for Dispute Resolution at the Pepperdine University School of Law in California and is a Conjoint Associate Professor with the University of Newcastle Law School in Australia.
4 things that define high-conflict personalities:
- Preoccupation with blaming others and doesn’t taking personal responsibility.
- All or nothing thinking; Want total control (of kids, house, money, etc.).
- Unmanaged emotions (e.g. burst into tears, etc.) that the situation doesn’t merit.
- Extreme behaviors (e.g.: telling lies to officials, spreading rumors, punching holes in wall, hitting, hiding children, stealing money).
Bill rarely recommends no-contact orders of parents with children. Oftentimes, this leads to kids fantasizing about what the parent is like, that doesn’t fit the reality. It escalates the warfare so high that it’s hard to ever reach peace after. It’s almost always better to just have supervised visitation (like at a therapists’ office) if there’s some kind of concern about safety.
Tips for dealing with high-conflict exes: Manage the relationship at an arms’ length; manage how you write and speak to them and structure things so there’s not much contact (like parallel parenting). Realize that it’s more about emotions than intentional behavior. They communicate emotionally, and children unconsciously absorb that. Don’t bad mouth other parent.
4 strategies for co-parenting your kids when your ex is high conflict (4 big skills for life):
- Flexible thinking
- Managed emotions
- Moderate behavior
- Checking yourself
Use BIFF method to communicate:
- Brief (paragraph is usually enough, even if it’s in response to a tome)
- Informative (straight info, don’t need justification)
- Friendly (make it positive not negative; “thanks for telling me your concerns”)
- Firm (end conversation without asking for follow up questions, or if you have a request, keep it unemotional and include a due date)
What to look for in an attorney:
Need a lawyer with 5+ years of experience in high-conflict divorce, and has empathy. You want someone who’s not afraid to go to court, but isn’t overly litigious, and someone who is able to negotiate settlement.
Top 3 parenting skills:
- Unconditional love and affection for your child
- Managing your own stress; you’re emotionally available for your child and that models for your children how to manage stress
- Demonstrate healthy adult communication and negotiation. Let your child see you doing this with other adults if not spouse/ex.
Being served with documents is scary, whether it’s a civil lawsuit, lien, or traffic ticket you haven’t paid. These types of legal documents have to be delivered to you in a certain way, called “serving.” Whether you want it or not, if your spouse wants to divorce you, dodging a server won’t make a divorce not happen, so let’s just get through your divorce, and you can be on your way to healing and thriving soon.
Being served with documents is scary, whether it’s a civil lawsuit, lien, or traffic ticket you haven’t paid. These types of legal documents have to be delivered in a certain way, called “being served.” In Utah when you’re filing for divorce, the rules of civil procedure require that divorce documents be delivered to your spouse in a certain way.
As a divorce firm, we use a third-party process company that serves documents for us/our client. The timelines don’t start until this official service happens. This will need to happen whether you have hired attorneys or you are doing your own divorce.
I get that this might feel scary if someone is trying to serve documents to you. But it’s usually better to just accept the service from a server, before it becomes a police officer at your door with a warrant to arrest you for something that may have just been a minor fine or something.
Accepting the documents starts the process. In Utah, you will have 21 days from date of service to respond to those documents. You will often get a summons, which will give you exact instructions on where to appear at court or how to answer the document.
I get that it’s hard to accept the official process of a divorce starting. It’s a big emotional and mental toll. Hire an attorney so you don’t feel alone and confused by the legal process and find a therapist to help you cope. Whether you want it or not, if your spouse wants to divorce you, dodging a server won’t make a divorce not happen. It may delay it for a couple days. But ignoring or being in denial that it’s happening just prolongs the divorce grief cycle you’ll go through. Let’s just get through your divorce; you can do it. There is life after divorce.
We’re discussing the divorce of Kim Kardashian and Kanye/Ye West today in our celebrity splits episode. Whether you respect them or hate their fame, join us as we discuss Kanye’s name change, Kim buying the marital home, and how, at least in appearances, they seem to be trying to put their kids first.
My guest today for this celebrity splits episode is Cameron Jolley, who is my marketing administrator. He’s a native of Utah and grew up in Spanish Fork. He got his marketing and communications degree from UVSC (now UVU). He is an avid fisher and thrill-seeker. He has a teenage daughter and supports female empowerment. He has some insight into divorce in that his parents divorced, and he is also divorced himself.
Today we’re talking about #KimYe, or Kim Kardashian and Kanye West’s imminent divorce. People either love or hate Kim Kardashian. The Kardashians are branding gods and have built up a lot of businesses and money around their looks. She says her one regret is that sex tape, and seems to be embracing her role as a great mom and for female empowerment these days.
In August, Kanye petitioned the court to change his name for personal reasons to “Ye.” It was granted October just a few days ago. He has cited that it’s because it’s the most used word in the Bible.
We know the reality show isn’t real life. But it seems like Kim and Ye are handling their divorce fairly responsibly and maturely, and are trying to prioritize the kids.
Ye wanted to go to Wyoming. Kim wants to stay near her family in LA. Ye has been saying he is done with being married to Kim’s whole family, especially Kris Jenner.
They were married in 2014. Kim filed for divorce in February of 2021. She said in it that she thought it should be joint physical custody. They have 4 kids together: North, Saint, Chicago, Psalm. Kim just bought the family home from Ye. They are aiming for stability. It seems like Kim is really trying to show that she supports Ye.
Their combined wealth is 1.8 billion dollars. The majority seems to be in Ye’s Yeezy shoe business. But Kim has more liquid assets.
Kim hired Laura Wasser, who is the major Hollywood attorney, like Britney Spears, Ryan Reynolds, Heidi Klum, Christina Aguilera, Johnny Depp, Kelly Clarkson, etc. Celebs love her because she is great at discretion. Then Kanye filed a counter petition, so they’re probably working out of court to settle this. They have a prenup, but it wouldn’t have covered the kids and child support. They say they are very cordial and have no bad blood.
Kanye’s had a hard time accepting that she filed first. His ego was probably pretty wounded. At first he was saying he didn’t want the divorce and still loved her, but more recently, he said they had nothing in common and “let” Kim file first. He unfollowed Kim on social media and changed his phone number and told Kim she had to contact him through his security back in March. Meanwhile, Kim has posted pics of her on social media with Yeezy shoes on. And she matched him at the Donda event. Seems like she’s trying to support him.
We can’t wait for the next Kim K. wedding!
Being falsely accused of something, like sexually abusing your children, is one of the scariest things that can happen during divorce or custody battles. I’m telling you the horror story of one of my clients that this happened to recently. These allegations are scary. But it’s worth fighting them; hire an attorney that can take a stand and hold your false accuser accountable and reunite you with your children.
One of my clients’ ex accused my client of marital rape and sexually abusing their daughter. The police were called this first time. When a police officer talks to you to investigate an allegation, you are not under arrest so you’re not protected under Miranda rights, but anything you say or do can still be used against you. So you can plead the 5th, even if they don’t say that’s an option for you. You do not have to talk to them and you can say that you want to talk to an attorney first. Your attorney can advise you whether to give the police a statement or stay silent.
A second time with the same client, my client’s ex called DCFS (Division of Child and Family Services) on my client, again saying there was sexual abuse happening to their daughter by my client. If a DCFS case worker tries to talk to you, again anything you admit to will be used in their report and can be used against you in court. Don’t admit to anything without first talking to an attorney to decide whether it’s best to tell them your story or not.
After that, my client’s ex started going to doctors. Their daughter was getting a lot of UTIs and the ex kept telling the doctor she thought it was because her daughter’s father was molesting her. Doctors also have to report this sort of information. So it’s important as a parent to be really involved in your child’s life so not just the other parent can try to manipulate these professionals. If the doctor knows you, they are able to have a better understanding of both sides of the story and are going to want to be more investigative before they report anything, and can share information with you.
There were about 12 accusations from this ex, all of which had to be investigated. There was no evidence that there was any abuse or that any of the claims from his ex were true. My client started recording all conversations with his ex, which helped show his ex’s duplicity and mal intent. Make sure you know the legalities of recording conversations before you do that though. Utah is a 1-party consent state, so you can record any conversations as long as you’re a part of the conversation. But California, for example, is a 2-party consent state, so both parties have to know and approve being recorded for it to be legal. You can also take notes (especially if you can’t record conversations) after conversations with your ex or after you talk to the doctor. Make sure you don’t change your story. That leads to credibility issues.
The court was able to see that my client’s ex was using these allegations as a strategic advantage over him to get custody of their daughter. They were able to rule that she was not willing to facilitate a relationship with Dad, which led to a complete custody transfer to my client.
These allegations are scary. You have to protect yourself. Go find an attorney that’s willing to take a stand and disprove false allegations. You need to be able to hold the person accountable that is falsely accusing you, and you should be reunited with your children! It’s worth fighting for.
Summary: Dr. Celeste Holbrook and I are breaking down the topic of sex and redefining it in an equitable, shame-free way. Join us as we discuss the taboo: arousal, masturbation, consent, and more—especially in relation to divorce and parenting.
Dr. Celeste Holbrook is a sexologist and speaker who helps her clients embrace and understand their sexual self. She speaks on a variety of topics from sex drive and sexual shame to painful intercourse and purity culture. Her mission is to provide safe spaces for people to talk about sex. You can find her teaching classes for The Velvet Box or at her website at www.drcelesteholbrook.com. Sign up for a 30 min discovery call with Dr. Celeste on her website.
Sex is the only thing in our lives that we only seem performed. It’s not something that people we trust can model for us. So we compare our own sex lives to what we’ve seen in media. Media makes it look easy and like you have to have a partner.
If we don’t know about our own body, how can we give informed consent to a partner? It is your ethical responsibility to know about yourself.
If you can garner confidence in your sex life, where you’re the most vulnerable, it can give you confidence in all other places of your life, like asking for a raise at work.
Figure out the root cause of the issues in your previous marriage/relationship so you can improve or fix that in future relationships.
The biggest issue Celeste hears about regarding sex in relationships: Mismatched arousals/sex drives—but this is partially just human experience—we’re never going to be exactly matched. Sex is always a negotiation. Need to stop the conditioning from the male perspective and saying females have “low libido.”
Intimacy is a big umbrella; sex falls under that umbrella, but it’s just one piece.
Arousal frameworks: “these are the doorways I need to walk through in order for my arousal shows up.” What are some things that you need and that your spouse needs to prepare for arousal? “Chore play”; if responsibility is the biggest killer of arousal for a person, then if your partner is helping remove some of that dread or mindspace by helping with that task, then arousal is easier to access.
When you’re single is actually a great time to understand and process your sex life and needs. Deconstruct past messaging about sex. Unload your backpack and re-pack it in a more organized, intuitive way.
The very definition of sexual intercourse (heteronormative penis-vaginal penetration) is centered on penis owners.
You can’t show up as a parent and break the generational shame surrounding sex until you unpack and address your personal feelings about sex. You need to provide accurate and honest information for your kids. “The talk” with your kids is not a one-time talk. It should start really early and is a constant discussion that you build on. Model intimacy and also boundaries and consent around bodies.
What do you want emotionally out of sex? Ask yourself, “In my dream sexual scenario, what do I want to feel?” Then you can build behaviors around that to help you feel those feelings.
Sometimes it takes months or years before divorces get finalized, so what do you do in the interim if you have immediate financial needs or battles over current custody or living situations? Meet with a local, competent family attorney to see how they can help you file a motion with the court for temporary orders or emergency orders.
Summary:
My guest, Jessica Frew, hosts the “Husband in Law” podcast with her husband and her ex-husband. Today she’s sharing with me how she maintained a healthy and communicative relationship with her ex—even through when her ex came out as gay and had an affair, the divorce, a re-marriage, step-parenting, co-parenting, and being in business together.
Show notes:
Jessica Frew is a wife, ex-wife, mom, stepmom, and BOLD action taker. She has a successful podcast called “Husband in Law” that she records with her husband, Matt, and her ex-husband, Steve. Together they are sharing their stories of love, marriage, coming out, divorce, remarriage, and co-parenting to help others know they are not alone.
Her first husband, Steve, was married to Jessica for a year before he came to terms with the fact that he was gay. He wasn’t ready to embrace that or leave the marriage at that point, so they stayed married for another 6 years until he had an affair and they tried to work through it but it was a mess so they ended up divorcing. They had a 2-year-old daughter at the time of divorce. They didn’t want to have the typical resentment and issues that they had seen often in divorced couples so they took the time to figure out what they wanted their relationship and coparenting structure to look like for them. They hang out more than most ex couples and have a fairly unconventional co-parenting system. They spend all holidays together, work together, etc. Jessica married her second husband, Matt, 8 years ago and Steve actually now works for Matt. She has step kids through her second marriage.
Lessons learned:
When your partner shares something so vulnerable with you, take time to understand what it means to you. When your partner is already carrying personal shame with them, you don’t need to add to that in a negative way; they are likely already hard on themselves internally. Help them remember everything that’s good about them. Don’t judge them or create more shame; be there to love and support them.
- You can handle a lot more than you think you can and you can do hard things. Just because your reality changes doesn’t mean that you can’t be happy.
- Give yourself grace, give your spouse grace. If you do react poorly or accusatory or say hurtful things to them, come back and apologize and own your part.
- Nothing about going through a divorce is easy. But if you take the time to create an amicable and communicative relationship with your to-be ex and get over your ego, it can be a lot less hard. Learn now how to effectively communicate. Use your words nicely. Take the time to consider your response and how you communicate with your ex.
- Take the time to sit down and identify your own fears, deal breakers, priorities. Figure out what you need to do that is in your control. Heal yourself. Allow your ex to heal themselves.
- Create boundaries. Boundaries are important in every relationship, including within yourself.
- Put your kids before your ego. Make the first priority and common ground with your ex be that you want what’s best for your children. Most the time, your ex or the new step parent isn’t trying to take your place.
- Love comes in all shapes and sizes. Let go of what you think life should look like. See how you can invite love in instead of contention.
Summary:
In this divorce tip episode, I explain the difference between legal and physical custody, including the relationship of custody to child support. I also define parenting plans and the dispute resolution clause, and I outline the differences between major and minor decision making for co-parenting.
Show notes:
What is the difference between legal custody and physical custody? It depends on the state if this applies to you since this isn’t a distinction in some states. But for the states this does apply in, I want to explain the difference between the two.
Legal custody is the decision making regarding your children. In Utah, the presumption for legal custody in most divorces is joint legal custody. This assumes that you and your spouse are going to work together regarding the major decisions of your children. Major decisions are defined as decisions involved with religion, education, extracurricular, and medical. Anything not in those categories is considered a minor decision, and the parent with the physical custody of the kids that day can make that decision. In joint legal custody, the court requires you to create a parenting plan, which is a legal roadmap for how you and your spouse are going to co-parent your children after the divorce. It includes a dispute resolution clause so that when you and your spouse are unable to come to these major decisions regarding your children together, there is a set up process for what to do. It will outline 3–4 steps for what to do in those instances, such as talking with experts or going through mediation. Most major decisions are able to be made between co-parents without resorting to the dispute resolution steps, as long as the parents remember that they both share the same goal of wanting the best for their kids.
Physical custody is defined by how many overnights a parent has per year. To have joint physical custody, you only have to have 111 overnights (out of 365) per year to be considered a joint physical custodian of your kids. It could be 50-50 or 70-30 split or anything in between, according to the percentage each parent has within joint physical custody. So the terms like sole or joint physical custody don’t matter as much as how many overnights you actually have with your kids.
In Utah, the number of overnights you have directly correlates to the amount of child support you’ll pay or receive. In Texas, child support amount doesn’t correlate with the parent time, it’s only about income, so you’ll need to check in your state.
Summary:
One of the biggest fears parents have going into a divorce is how it will negatively affect their children. Today I’m talking to Matt Ames, whose parents got divorced when he was in high school. Listen in as we lay out some tips to help kids and their parents get through the process positively.
Some tips to make the transition easier for your kids during divorce:
- Keep your kids out of the fight; leave them out of the divorce drama. It’s ok to be angry, but try to move through that phase quickly so you don’t irreparably damage your children by using unfair tactics like using the children to hurt your spouse. That just hurts your children.
- Try to keep up daily normal routines for your kids so they can keep their activities and friends. If you want to be an equal parent, show up as an equal parent. Don’t move an hour away and expect your kids to have to travel an hour to get to school. That takes a big toll on kids.
- Be present for your kids. You can allow your older kids to be there for you emotionally too, but be careful and don’t expect too much from them. Make sure they always know you love them.
- Never trash talk your spouse in front of your kids. Not publicly, not on social media, not in any place your kids could ever see.
- Be prepared and willing to answer your kids’ questions honestly. (e.g.: Where will I live?) Don’t put false expectations or promise anything you aren’t in control of or aren’t sure about.
- Prioritize your mental and physical health. Go to therapy, go to the gym, establish self-care.
- Remember that your spouse can be a really bad spouse, but that doesn’t mean they are a bad parent. Keep those separate and honor the relationship your kids have with your ex. What do each parent have in common? They both want what’s best for their kids. Use this as the base of your co-parenting relationship.
Tips for teens whose parents are going through divorce:
Be there for your other siblings, especially younger siblings.
- Remember that everything is going to be ok.
Today I’m talking to fellow divorce attorney, Gabi Jones, about some interesting factors regarding the divorce of Bill and Melinda Gates. We discuss the increasing frequency of grey divorce, how a person’s net worth is determined, the difference between “fault” and “no fault” divorce grounds, and the impact of focused philanthropy.
Show notes:
The Gateses’ divorce was just finalized on August 2, 2021. They didn’t have a pre-nup or separation agreement, and they’d been married for 27 years, so we expected it to take longer, but it all went through in just 3 months. They announced the divorce May 3, 2021, on Twitter. Their youngest had just turned 18.
There’s been an uptick in “grey divorce,” or divorce for couples who are over 50, who’ve often been married for 20+ years. These often seem to be initiated by the wife. Researchers think it may be linked to feminism and more education and opportunities for women.
Bill Gates started Microsoft in the early 80s. He started dating Melinda in 1987, and they didn’t get married until 1994. By then, MS was already a billion dollar company and Bill was one of the richest men in the U.S., so it is surprising they didn’t do a pre-nup. Stupid, or romantic?
When they announced their divorce, The NY Times reported that Bill Gates had met with Jeffrey Epstein many times since 2011, even though he’s always denied a business relationship with Epstein. It’s really unclear what ties were there, but seems possible that whatever connection may have solidified Melinda’s decision to go forward with the divorce.
Several news outlets ran stories mid May about employees of the Gates Foundation that mentioned questionable behavior--that Bill may have pursued women that worked for Microsoft and the Gates Foundation.
It seems Melinda had been meeting with lawyers for a while before the announcement, and Bill had just retired from Microsoft. They have a great PR team; hard to find much credible info online. They are worth about $124 billion, but a lot of that is part of the foundation. They are still co-members of the board of trustees. Warren Buffet stepped down (who was also on the board).
Currently, their joint will only commits $10 million per kid. The rest would go to the foundation, but the wills may change now post separation. They are adding more trustees to the board and doing a two-year trial period for how it works to still run the foundation together. Part of the settlement of the divorce outlines that if they can’t make it work to run the foundation together, Bill will still give Melinda money for her philanthropic initiatives. Even since the divorce announcement, they’ve added another $15 million to the endowment. It seems like things will keep moving forward with the foundation.
It seems clear Melinda happily took a smaller personal amount of money so that she could focus on her priority of the foundation. Grounds of divorce is listed as “no fault” on their decree. It usually just means you don’t want to be married anymore; nothing specific happened or was blamed on one party.
They should be given a lot of credit for prioritizing their foundation of equal or fair splitting of assets and getting over whatever personal hurt or wanting to punish the other. Their foundation literally makes such big differences in the world.
It seems that everyone has advice to give you once they find out you are getting divorced. Though they likely have good intentions, your specific case will be unlike any other divorce, which also means that Google and Internet resources are only minimally helpful. In this quick tip, I explain why, and where TO get a realistic idea of what to expect in your divorce.
Show notes:
Just like how when you are pregnant with a baby and everyone around you all of a sudden is a parenting expert and feels the need to take it upon themselves to give you their personal experiences and advice, when people find out you’re getting divorced, it’s much the same way. Many people have been divorced or know someone closely who has been divorced, and they often want to try to help you by sharing those divorce stories.
But the truth is that divorces are like snowflakes. There isn’t one divorce that looks exactly like another divorce. If you listen literally to people’s divorce experiences, stories, and advice, and try to apply it to your situation, you will likely be setting unrealistic expectations for yourself in your own divorce.
Your case will be very specific to you. You want to protect yourself and your family. Case law is subjective. Your judge compared to another judge can have a completely different understanding of the law or issue at hand, and you can get very different results.
Not to even mention that you, your spouse, and the relationship and personalities you have will change the outcome and experience and facts of your case as compared to anyone else’s divorce.
Also, be careful in trusting google. Family law statues are specific to state, and even county sometimes. So the internet may be giving you info that isn’t even true in your state, or may be very outdated, or just completely inaccurate, since it’s not legally fact-checked.
To get the best information, you’re going to want to look for an attorney that is specifically a family law attorney and practices in your area. They will be able to give you up-to-date, relevant advice that is specific to your case. This is the best way to protect yourself, your future, and your family and have an understanding of the trajectory of your divorce case
When you’re in the midst of a high-conflict divorce, it’s hard to see the rainbow at the end. Today’s guest, Josh Hall, shares his experience going through a 5+ year battle with his NPD ex, bringing to light the despair and self-doubt that he felt at the time. He shares advice for how to get through it, and how he went from 40% custody of his daughter to full custody, and how he’s now living his career and life dreams in color.
Show notes:
When you’re going through the divorce, you’re on equal footing. But if you decide to settle with the amount of parent-time you’re offered at the time, just to get the divorce done, and think you’ll come back later when you have more money or whatever, you may be setting yourself up for an impossibility or a really expensive fight in the long run. It’s a really high burden to prove change of circumstance.
Tips for divorcing a high-conflict personality:
- Meet with several attorneys (initial consultation fees means you won’t just get a sales pitch) until you find the right one for you. Find one who is experienced in and understands how to fight against spouses with personality disorders, who believes in you and listens to you, and who doesn’t litigate for litigation’s sake.
- Don’t let your spouse/ex get in your head. They will try to make you feel crazy or that you are the sole one to blame.
- Record and document everything. Take notes after exchanges with your ex. Check to see if it’s legal to audio or video record your conversations in your state. In Utah, you can record anything as long as you are there too (can’t hide a recorder to record someone when you aren’t there). Your ex won’t fight fair and may try to make up or misconstrue what was said or how it was said unless you can prove otherwise. It’s a he-said-she-said, so you have to make sure your character and tone are consistent and trustworthy in court. Be careful of false allegations.
- Always be the bigger person. There will be so many times when your ex says something triggering or false, and you have to let it go. You are who you are. Don’t respond to petty things or argue about them. Don’t let them get under your skin. Email is the best way to communicate so that you have emotional distance. Set boundaries with your spouse and let them know when you’ll be getting back to them so you don’t feel the need to constantly respond to them. This is how you take power away from them because they are trying to get reactions out of you.
- Be confident in yourself so that you know who you are and that your ex can’t define you. You don’t need their labels, praise, or validation. Accept that they don’t like you. You are worthy. You are enough.
- If you’re seeking physical custody, be actively involved in everything with your child. Keep records and evidence of doing so. There’s nothing wrong with gender roles if that’s how you’ve chosen to divide tasks in your marriage, but know that when you get divorced, that changes. You can’t just be the breadwinner or just be the caretaker. You have to both do both now and can’t expect to just do what you’ve always done as far as family roles.
- Don’t post things on social media about your ex. It will come back to bite you in court.
- Go get therapy for yourself. Couples therapy usually doesn’t work with high-conflict personalities, but do what you need to do for your own mental health.
- Live your life in color. At the time of black and white tv, people didn’t know what colors things were or that the future held color tv. Know that things will get better and decide to live your best life. There is a rainbow at the end of the black and white tunnel of high-conflict marriage and divorce.
Summary:
Plenty of divorces are amicable, and you don’t need to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees. In this 10-minute tips episode, I map out when you can DIY and when you probably need a lawyer, and how to hire one if so. Either way, I always recommend at least meeting with an attorney once for an initial consultation.
Show notes:
A lot of times when people write their own divorce decrees or try to use an online form or service, it can lead to issues. When you don’t use legalese or understand the state law, oftentimes it makes the decree unenforceable by law.
You should always at least meet with an attorney. This means having an initial consultation with an attorney in your state (even better if in your same county). Then you know you have the most updated and specific information you need. You can do free consultations, but know that the attorney is mostly going to spend that time on a sales pitch to you, whereas paid consultations don’t waste your time and they are just going to give you legal advice specific to you. You don’t have to hire the attorney if you don’t need to. But if you do want to hire an attorney, it’s important to find an attorney you mesh well with. You need to make sure you trust them to represent you.
If the facts of your case are really complicated, you probably want to hire a lawyer. But if you and your spouse have already had plenty of discussions about how to divide things and you are still amicably communicating, and if you haven’t been married long or there aren’t a lot of assets to split, and if you don’t have children, you probably don’t need to hire an attorney beyond having that initial consultation.
It’s much harder to redo divorce decrees later on, so it’s best to take the time to get it done right in the first place. If you are trying to modify it with the court, it will be your burden to show substantial change of circumstance and it’s much harder. You should never settle your divorce just because you’re trying to get it over with or over-negotiating because you don’t have the emotional energy to fight right then. These are decisions that will affect you and your family for years to come
Erin Levine is disrupting the legal industry with her online divorce support platform, Hello Divorce. Join us for a discussion about the lack of access to justice that currently exists and what we’re both trying to do to solve it.
Erin’s current projects include raising her two daughters, Zoe and Mia, along with managing the national roll out of Hello Divorce’s products and services. You can find her on social media @hellodivorce.
Both Jill and Erin have similar goals in closing the access to justice gap for people trying to get divorced. They felt stuck because they could only help the one on a day-to-day basis with their clients. We were both frustrated with how expensive getting divorced was, and how hard it was for normal people to navigate the legalities of divorce and get quality divorce documents drafted.
80% of divorces in the US have at least 1 party who does not have an attorney. They are trying to navigate one of the most complex contracts we will ever enter into—a marriage contract. Divorce decrees are one of the most complicated legal documents, so to do that alone is unfathomable.
Let’s change the conversation around divorce. No one gets married thinking they will get divorced, but it can also be exactly what we need to move forward. We don’t need to shy around the word or topic of divorce.
A big issue we’ve faced as divorce attorneys is fixing bad decrees. When people try to create their own with no divorce experience or legal background, or are following bad or general advice from the internet, you often end up with a bad divorce decree that won’t be able to be correctly interpreted down the road when issues arise. Erin has created an online platform and structure for people to get the help and support they need to get through the legalities of divorce. Jill has created the technology for quality divorce decrees to be drafted, based on your circumstances. So we’re trying to help people get quality divorce decrees, without the expensive retained attorney, in the first place so you don’t have to go to court later.
Law is one of the last industries to be disrupted by technology. We know what the client needs, so why wouldn’t we as attorneys embrace technology and create quality ways for people to get quality divorce decrees. We still recommend consulting with an attorney initially. But then you can go do it yourself using some new tools like Hello Divorce and SimpleEnding. There are options! Not everyone needs to retain a lawyer.
Divorce forms are in legalese and complicated. A lot of online services or resources out there aren’t actually helping you fill those out but just letting you download blank forms or auto-generating blanket forms. If you try to take those general or poorly written decrees to court later on when you’re trying to get your ex to follow something, the court won’t be able to help you because the language is too ambiguous or broad. We’re trying to provide a more quality alternative that is specific and uses attorney experience and language so that the court can actually help you get sanctions on your ex or get orders to be carried out legally. And it’s much less expensive than retaining an attorney.
Laws are different in each state. So you have to work with an attorney in your specific state, or the technology has to work for each individual state. You need help understanding the forms and wording but also the local laws and procedures.
There’s been exciting strides the past few years in legal technology, but we’re probably still years or decades away from where we need to go. The system has been built to protect attorneys’ careers and ability to earn money instead of focusing on the needs of the consumer. Consumers are pushing for change. Billable hours don’t work for the majority of cases.
I’m diving into the legal details we know about Kelly Clarkson’s divorce, sprinkled in with some juicy speculation and hearsay! Join me and my fellow family law attorney, Luke Shaw, as we discuss potential outcomes for Kelly and Brandon, and what we can learn from celebrity splits.
Dr. Abby Medcalf, psychologist, author, podcaster, and speaker, teaches us how to build relationship resilience. By depositing daily microconnections with our spouse in the bank, we will never overdraft when we need to make withdrawals. Because, after all, relationships aren’t built in a day; they are built daily.
Show Notes:
Dr. Abby Medcalf is a New Yorker, relationship maven, psychologist, author, podcast host (“Relationships Made Easy”), and TedX speaker who helps people think differently so they can create connection, ease, and joy in their relationships, especially the one with yourself. Unique background in business and consulting, she brings a fresh, effective, perspective to life’s struggles using humor and her direct, no-nonsense style. With over 30 years of experience, Abby is a recognized authority and sought after speaker at organizations such as Google, Apple, AT&T, Kaiser, PG&E, American Airlines, and Chevron. She has been a featured expert on CBS and ABC News, and a contributor on Huffpost, Women’s Health, and Bustle.
Most couples are good at making the big decisions together (where to send kids to school, job changes, etc.). It’s the daily microconnections that is where the meat of the sandwich is. You need someone on a daily basis who is vulnerable, connected, there WITH YOU. Like getting physically fit, you have to do more than the 1x/week personal training session. Date nights are not enough. Couples therapy is not enough.
Can’t let the cracks in your relationship become the grand canyon. Break it down. When your spouse gets home, stop what you’re doing and greet them and be excited to see them. Kisses that last longer than 6 seconds. Pay attention in small moments. Microconnections are money in the bank. So the times you need to make a withdrawal, you have the money there. Have to build relationship resilience so you don’t overdraw.
When you’re waiting, being conditional, or only putting in half the effort, you have unrealistic expectations for your partner or what you deserve. You don’t want to get taken advantage of. That’s your fear talking. Don’t put in 150% (that’s codependency). Just need to put in your full love. Full love takes nothing from you. Look at the relationship with a lens of love and respect. Even if you don’t feel your spouse is contributing anything, you have to think that they are doing the best they can with the tools they have. Don’t need to worry about being taken advantage of; this is the person you’ve chosen to spend your life with. If this relationship isn’t meant to be, you’ll know over time.
Divorce isn’t a failed marriage. Love and honor your ex as part of your individual journey and life. You got amazing kids and life experiences through that “failed marriage,” so that’s not a failure.
The number one reason relationships fail is competition, not lack of communication. Competition causes the poor communication. You have to be on the same team. Can’t have the mentality that if your spouse gets more, you get less, because then you don’t want your spouse to win. Any relationship is a shared resource. If your partner is winning, that’s more for your battery in your relationship. If your partner is drained, that’s draining the battery of your relationship. The team wants to win. You add external resources like hiring a house cleaner; it doesn’t have to be “who’s the more burned out of the two of us.” You can also subtract things off both your plates. E.g.: Do we really need Sophie to learn a language and take an instrument and be in 2 sports? She needs 2 parents who are happy and calm and loving more. Slow down and stop rushing your kids.
It’s our 10th episode, and my guest is Dr. Ryan Coil, who happens to be my husband! I talk about our almost-divorce in my book No One Dies from Divorce**, and now Ryan is here to give his side of the story! Join us as we tell stories about our marriage, our almost divorce, and the stories we tell ourselves about our spouse.
Ryan is a medical doctor and a hospitalist in SLC. When we met, Ryan was in the financial world and making a lot of money, working a big hedge fund, travelling, and studying to take the CFA, going to cool events, etc. A year into our marriage, Ryan decided he wanted to do something else with his life because he didn’t relate to the way people manipulated and took advantage of people. 11 years later! He finished. Now he’s the heartthrob of the little old ladies at the hospital.**
In 2012, Ryan was in his first year of medical school, I was working crazy hours at a big law firm, and we had just had our 2nd child. We weren’t giving time and attention to the relationship and weren’t doing any personal self-care. Ryan remembers feeling lonely and isolated and disconnected. Lost sight of the positives of a relationship. Jill thought if she ignored it, the problems would go away. This was about 2 years before Ryan finally said he was done. He moved out the next day. They were separated for a couple of months. Ryan lived in an unfinished apartment at his mom’s. Was still in med school, stayed out late, binged a lot of TV and was very lonely. Had some good conversations with his mom about how the grass isn’t always greener on the other side. It’s usually necessary to look within to fix your relationship.
We both decided we were going to put the work into ourselves. Needed to develop our personal lives and have our own friends and have me time. We took self-improvement courses and did therapy. We each do our own laundry and we each are allowed to keep our side of the bedroom as clean or messy as we want.
When we were in couples’ therapy, we were assigned to read “Rising Strong” by Brene Brown. I’m a pro at making up stories in my head about what others are thinking. This makes it feel like there are actually 3 people in our marital arguments: Jill as Jill, Ryan as Ryan, and Jill as what she THINKS Ryan is arguing about. This makes effective arguing and communication difficult.
Ryan was the one who encouraged me to open my own law firm. He was there for every moment of those early scary times. I was pregnant with our third child, and Ryan was finishing medical school and trying to find his residency. He got his residency at University of Utah and Jill built CoilLaw in Sandy.
Listen to the full episode as Ryan answers the questions submitted by our Instagram followers!
Today we’re talking about how the legal field affects the LGBTQIA+ community, and what we can do to better advocate for this community going forward, professionally and personally. My guest is Jess Couser, a fellow Utah family law attorney. She identifies as bisexual and works hard to represent other members in the LGBTQ community.
Show Notes:
Jessica (Jess) Couser practices law in areas of custody, divorce, parentage, enforcement, child support, adoption, protective orders, guardianship, LGBTQ law, and more. She and her cofounder, Laura Hansen, founded Just Law in 2010 (Millcreek and downtown SLC, Utah, offices), with the goal of providing clients excellent, ethical, and family-focused legal representation. Jess believes that family law matters require legal skill and strategy, but that they also require compassion, creativity, and fortitude. Family law attorneys should have specific knowledge of child development, trauma, communication and coping mechanisms, and they should be prepared to advocate for and educate every client on the legal and practical matters they may be facing.
Jess believes the biggest challenge the LGBTQ+ community probably faces today is the mainstream political platforms and figures that are still comfortable advocating to reverse the Obergefell V Hodges supreme court case (legality of same-sex marriage), which would affect families in the queer community.
Also issues of transgender laws for individuals and their parents and children, and issues of family planning for same-sex couples.
“Verification of appropriate treatment by a medical provider” is the verbiage the Utah Supreme Court gave for what is needed before granting the gender marker change on birth certificates. This just means the individual has consulted with a medical provider and that provider agrees the transition treatment is appropriate.
Both surrogacy and adoption required being single or in a heterosexual marriage in Utah before 2015.
How can we all be better allies?
- Ask questions. People are usually willing to have honest communication when you are open.
- Language is important and impacts who you’re communicating with, but not so important you shouldn’t feel like you can’t ask if you don’t know.
- Don’t let your own insecurities keep you from being kind to others.
As part of a new side series on the podcast, I will be discussing celebrity divorces and other legal issues in the news. Today I’m discussing the #FreeBritney movement and conservatorships with fellow family law attorney Corttany Brooks. Let the celebrity gossip and controversy begin!
For Britney, It started as a temporary, emergency conservatorship in February 2008. She checked herself into a psychiatric hospital and it has been reported that she had gone for 5 days straight without sleep before she was admitted. Lack of sleep can cause even the most mentally healthy person to have a breakdown. Remember the scene in 2008. The paparazzi were constantly in her face and trying to provoke her because they could get $1 million dollars for one of these “crazed” photos of Britney. This was right at the time she was going through her divorce, and her husband was trying to get full custody of their children--she had 2 young children. Divorce is literally one of the hardest and most personal things you can go through in life, and she was having to be hounded constantly by reporters and photographers.
She probably had postpartum depression, undiagnosed anxiety and depression, but she wasn’t getting any help or support and was just labeled “crazy.”
A conservatorship, aka a guardianship, is a legal mechanism set up for those unable to manage their affairs, and can be set up over the body and/or over the estate (financial). It’s most common for a family member (usually parents) to be appointed to conservator. Temporary guardianships can be fairly long-term. They usually continue on until the conservatee chooses to challenge it by filing a motion to remove it and then it’s removed, unless the conservator doesn’t agree, and then the burden of proof is on the conservator to make a case for why the conservatee may not be able to oversee their physical/financial life still.
So what happened here in Britney’s case when the Judge ruled in October 2008 for the conservatorship to be made permanent? We don’t know exactly, but there would have been 2 possibilities when the court was determining whether the temporary conservatorship would end, or become a permanent conservatorship (listen to episode for full details)
Why is Britney Spears, someone worth over $60 million, who can work and provide for herself and others, on a permanent conservatorship? She has been open to keeping some sort of management over her finances, but she is seeking to abolish the part over her body.
Most cases of permanent physical conservatorships are put in place when a person is so physically unable to take care of themselves that they need someone advocating for them as far as medical procedures and health for the unforseeable future. People who have been cripled in accidents or were born with severe medical conditions. For Britney Spears to have a permanent conservatorship over her body just doesn’t make legal sense and doesn’t seem to have precedent and is concerning if this becomes the precedent. Why aren’t there limits on lengths of conservatorships, especially considering how many Americans suffer with depression and anxiety.
Her driver’s license had been taken away (which just got reinstated), she couldn’t choose or change her own therapists, she couldn’t get her hair or nails done, couldn’t choose her own attorney (until just this month). She should be able to choose her own assessor as a private witness and then submit herself to these assessments and submit results to court. That is probably the best way out of this.
What are Jamie’s intentions? He is being paid over $200,000/year just for being her conservator. There is conflict of interest here. Britney’s money pays for her attorney and his attorney.
Relationships take work and continually evolve. There’s only 6 or so principles you need to know to be successful in relationships, but most of us are just in survival, day-to-day mode and never learn these. Dr. Matt Townsend helps us break down key strategies for conflict resolution and developing more fulfilling relationships.
One of the most frequent causes of divorce is disagreements or secrecy around the marital finances. With 30 years in the financial industry, Bill Sanders teaches us tips to protect and grow our wealth while going through a divorce.
While many of us may be better together, some of us can actually become better apart. This week, Jill interviews Gabrielle Hartley - attorney, mediator, and author of Better Apart, which radically reframes the way couples experience, execute, and recover from when “for better or worse” is no longer an option, and helps you find the road to a new mindset and better life.
One of the most Googled questions about divorce is, “What does the Bible say about divorce?” Because Marco Brown and I both practice family law in such a highly populated Christian state, we get this question a lot. Join us as we unpack what Jesus said about divorce, and some context for this hotly debated issue.
This week I’m talking to actor and podcaster, Anthony Leroy Lovato, for his perspective on co-parenting during the pandemic. I love his tips on how to avoid his experience of getting divorced three times by finding your own purpose within, instead of in an external relationship.
High-conflict divorce is most often caused when one or both parties have traits of personality disorders. Although these divorces are usually traumatizing, the people who are most able to thrive are the ones who are willing to change their mindsets, work on themselves, and take personal responsibility. You can do it! My guest today, Dr. Sue Cornbluth, is sharing tips on how.
The average person gained 23 pounds during the pandemic. Today I interview health and wellness guru, and creator of Fit2Fat2Fit, Drew Manning, about finding balance with our physical and emotional health to aid in our pursuit of thriving through divorce.
I’m Jill Coil, the author of the book and docuseries “No One Dies from Divorce.” But with the mental, emotional, financial, physical, and spiritual toll that divorce takes on people, the scope is so big that I decided to create a podcast, so this can be an ongoing conversation.
Divorce sucks. I know because I’m a divorce attorney and have divorced hundreds of clients at this point. I also went through a separation myself with my husband. Though our journey ultimately did not end in divorce, it gave me personal insight and empathy into the pain and turmoil of my clients’ lives. So if I can use my experience to save you from some of the heartache, confusion, stress, anxiety, or unknowing, our sole mission for this podcast will have been met. Remember, I am an attorney, but I am not your attorney.
I’m inviting other divorce attorneys, relationship experts, mental health professionals, fitness and health coaches, spiritual leaders, and financial advisors, as well as plenty of people just like you, who are going through or have been through divorce, to talk about their journeys.
You’re not alone. You can do this. Let me help you to not only survive through, but also thrive after your divorce. We can use our trials as a pivot to become a better version of ourselves. Let’s get through this together.