Pioneers and Pathfinders: Recent Episodes
Seyfarth Shaw LLP
Pioneers and Pathfinders is a podcast about the people driving change in the legal industry. Interviews will focus on how their unique journeys inform their thinking about the profession, the business of law, the solutions they create, and where the industry is going next. The podcast will feature guests with multiple backgrounds and perspectives drawn from a number of areas including talent, technology, diversity and inclusion, social justice, education, training, and the business of law. The host of Pioneers and Pathfinders is J. Stephen Poor, chair emeritus of Seyfarth Shaw. During his 15 year tenure as chair and managing partner, the firm pioneered the application of Lean Six Sigma in legal service delivery. Today, he co-leads Seyfarth Labs, the firm’s technology research and development team and continues to serve as an advisor to firm leadership and as executive sponsor of strategic initiatives focused on innovation and growth. Steve brings his own experience as a legal industry pioneer to these conversations, resulting in insights that are both fascinating and instructive.
Today we're joined by someone who has spent decades at the intersection of law, technology, innovation, and leadership. Ari Kaplan is a former practicing attorney, a widely recognized legal industry analyst, researcher, author, and speaker who has dedicated his career to helping the legal profession understand and navigate change.Over the past two decades, he has conducted extensive research, advised leaders across law firms and corporate legal departments, and become one of the industry's most trusted voices on innovation and the future of legal services. Ari has a unique vantage point into what legal leaders around the world are thinking about: AI adoption and innovation strategy, talent development, change management, and the evolving relationship between law firms and their clients. We're excited to tap into those perspectives and explore what he's seeing across the legal industry right now.Read the full transcript here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Ari-Kaplan.pdf
One of the things we talk a lot about on this podcast is what it takes to drive innovation in industries that are not always quick to change, and today's guest is someone who's been working on that challenge from the inside out. Today we are joined by Josh Levy, co-founder and CEO of Document Crunch, an AI platform focused on making contracts more usable for the people who rely on them every day.Josh's perspective is unique in that his work in innovation is really grounded in experience. He started in construction management, moved into construction law, and then went on to lead legal and contracting efforts on major billion-dollar projects. It's a great example of innovation that doesn't just introduce new technology, but changes how people interact with legal information altogether.Read the full transcript here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_JoshLevy.pdf
Today we're joined by Greg Mostyn, CEO and co-founder of Wexler. Wexler is a fact intelligence platform built for litigation teams. Wexler extracts events, timelines, and contradictions from large evidence sets and links everything back to its source, helping litigators build a clear factual picture from what could be hundreds of thousands of documents.In this episode, we get into what it really takes to bring new tools into major law firms, how litigators are actually using AI to change the way they build cases, and the elephant in the room—what would actually happen to the billable hour? We also dig into where legal AI is headed, what Greg wishes he'd known when he first started, and what might soon look outdated about the practice of law.Read the full transcript of today's episode here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Greg-Mostyn.pdf
Today's guest is Professor Charlotte Alexander, a leading scholar whose work has focused on the efficiency, transparency, and openness of the court system, particularly in civil litigation. Charlotte is a Harvard Law-trained scholar whose research has been published in some of the most prestigious journals in the world, including Science, the NYU Law Review, and the Texas Law Review.Today, Charlotte leads the Law, Data, and Design Lab at Georgia Tech and is Professor of Law and Ethics at the Georgia Tech Scheller College of Business. Charlotte and her team at Georgia Tech use AI and machine learning to process massive amounts of court data and surface of patterns and disparities that have long been buried in millions of pages of legal text. Charlotte's work has attracted funding from the National Science Foundation, the US Department of Labor, and Google. She serves on the AI Committee for the Georgia Judiciary and was a Fulbright Scholar.Simply put, Charlotte has been doing this work long before AI and machine learning became mainstream, bringing a perspective that is both deeply technical and human-centered. In today’s conversation, we’ll explore the challenges hidden in court data, what AI can and can’t do for the justice system, and ethical questions that come with deploying these technologies at scale.Read the full transcript of today's episode here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_CharlotteAlexander.pdf
Today's guest, Dr. Larry Richard, practiced as a trial attorney for 10 years before earning a PhD in organizational psychology. Today, he is a leading expert on why lawyers behave the way they do. For over 30 years, Dr. Richard has been researching how lawyers behave and why. He founded LawyerBrain LLC, which advises the leaders of major law firms on the human side of running a practice—things like culture, leadership, change management, resilience, and collaboration.Here are the 7 outlier personality traits that characterize lawyers, according to Dr. Richard's research:• Much higher level of skepticism than the general public• Much higher need for autonomy• Higher level of abstract reasoning—lawyers like using their intellect to solve problems, but also like to argue• Higher level of urgency—lawyers want closure, are impatient• Lower level of empathy—less inclined to take the perspective of others• Lower level of sociability—i.e., not very comfortable with emotional vulnerability, very private, guarded about personal issues• And, the most important one—lawyers are dramatically and pervasively low in resilience (i.e., 20% lower average resilience score than the general public, and 90% of lawyers have a resilience score in the bottom half of the scale! That makes us thin-skinned, insecure, defensive, and easily wounded.)Dr. Richard and his wife, D'Arcy Lyness, PhD, also a psychologist, have just written a book entitled Thin-Skinned: Why Lawyers Are So Low in Resilience, and the New Science That Can Help. It will be published by the American Bar Association in July of 2026. The book explains why lawyers are so consistently low in resilience, and then offers over 50 different scientifically supported self-help practices that can help lawyers build resilience, manage stress, and improve overall well-being.Join us on this episode today to explore why lawyers, according to Dr. Richard, are among the least resilient professionals in the workplace. We talk about how the deeply ingrained skepticism of attorneys is colliding with the unprecedented pace of change brought on by AI and a rapidly evolving legal landscape.Read the full transcript of today's episode here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Dr.-Larry-Richard-Returns.pdf
and the way podcasts promote learning and innovation, among many topics.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Zeynep-Ersin-and-Kevin-Young.pdf
This episode brings Steve Poor's role as host of Pioneers and Pathfinders to a close. It has been a wonderful five-year ride with fascinating guests sharing intriguing insights on the past and future of the profession. We've learned an enormous amount from each of them, and we appreciate their contribution to what are important dialogues about the future of the profession.To everyone who has listened in to the conversations, thank you. We know the demands on your time, and to think you would make space for this podcast is humbling. Steve wishes all of you peace and serenity as you navigate a rapidly changing, chaotic world.Our listeners should know: Pioneers and Pathfinders will continue with Seyfarth’s Zeynep Ersin and Kevin Young taking over as hosts. Stay tuned—an announcement about their first episode is coming in the weeks ahead.And now, we wrap up with the second part of Steve's conversation with Lorie Almon, Seyfarth's Chair and Managing Partner. Stay strong, and as always, thanks for listening.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Fifth-Anniversary-Part-2.pdf
Today we recognize two milestones for this podcast, and thus, we have a special two-part discussion. With this episode, we celebrate five years of over 200 individual guests drawn from all corners of the legal profession. Each guest has been incredibly generous with their time and ideas, and we have learned an enormous amount from them. It has been a wonderful experience. Additionally, these episodes mark the conclusion of Steve Poor's role as host of the podcast. Steve appreciates all our listeners who have gone on this journey with him.These two concluding episodes contain our conversation with Seyfarth's Chair and Managing Partner, Lorie Almon. In part one, Lorie and Steve reflect on the history of innovation in the profession—and at Seyfarth specifically. Next week, we end with a discussion of the current and future state of Big Law, from Lorie's perspective as someone running a Big Law firm. Thanks to Lorie for making the time to join us.We hope you enjoy listening to the conversation. As always, thanks for sharing your time with us.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Fifth-Anniversary-Part-1.pdf
As we close out our fifth year, we welcome back one of our early guests, Michele DeStefano, for a fascinating return conversation. Michele is a professor at the University of Miami School of Law, a visiting professor at Harvard Law School, and the founder of LawWithoutWalls. Her work sits at the intersection of leadership, collaboration, and innovation in professional services.In this episode, we explore how artificial intelligence may reshape collaboration, training, and legal education. Michele also discusses the importance of integrating human elements into AI applications, the challenges of adapting legal training to meet modern demands, and the kinds of new roles that may emerge as the profession continues to evolve. As always, Michele brings energy, insight, and a deep commitment to helping the legal profession rethink how it learns, collaborates, and leads in a rapidly changing world. It was great to have one of our old friends back, and we hope you enjoy the conversation.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Michele-DeStefano-Returns.pdf
Today we’re joined by Joanna Goodman, a freelance journalist, writer, and author covering technology, business, and media for national publications and major corporate clients. Joanna focuses much of her work on how emerging technologies, especially AI, are reshaping the legal profession. She writes the IT column for The Law Society Gazette and contributes regularly to the Legal Geek newsletter. She is also a frequent keynote speaker, panel moderator, and podcast host. In fact, back in 2016, she published one of the earliest books examining AI in legal services, entitled Robots in Law: How Artificial Intelligence is Transforming Legal Services.In our discussion, Joanna reflects on what it was like writing about legal AI long before generative AI entered the mainstream. We talk about separating hype from reality in legal tech, the challenges organizations face when trying to adopt new technologies, and why change management and training are often the hardest parts of transformation.Read the full transcript of today's episode here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Joanna-Goodman.pdf
This week, we’re joined by Dr. Eva Bruch. Based in Spain, Dr. Bruch is a lawyer, strategic consultant, and partner at LOIS—a consultancy focused on legal operations and the digital transformation of corporate legal departments and law firms. For more than two decades, Dr. Buch has been working at the intersection of strategy, technology, and the legal profession. At LOIS, she helps organizations adopt technology and AI in ways that are practical and tailored to their specific needs, rather than relying on one-size-fits all solutions. She is also a faculty advisor at the Digital Legal Exchange, a global nonprofit that brings together general counsel, legal professionals, and business leaders to learn and collaborate on digital transformation. Additionally, she serves on the Mutuality Foundation's Youth Council, a think tank focused on entrepreneurship and talent development within the legal profession.In our conversation, Dr. Bruch shares the moment she decided to leave traditional legal practice and focus on digital transformation, what legal professionals should be thinking about as they integrate AI into their work, and the critical role senior leadership plays in driving meaningful change. She also offers thoughtful perspectives on how AI should be regulated within the legal profession. Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Dr.-Eva-Bruch.pdf
L Gates, while continuing to lead SparkMind Advisors as CEO. It's a combination that perfectly reflects the increasingly hybrid nature of legal innovation work.In our conversation, Marlene shares her perspective on the blending of roles across knowledge management, practice support, and innovation—and how AI is reshaping not just the delivery of legal services, but how that work is valued. We also explore why, even in an era of accelerating technology, human connection remains the essential differentiator. As always, Marlene brings both candor and clarity along with practical advice for legal organizations navigating technological transformation.Read the full transcript here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers-Marlene-Gebauer-Returns.pdf
This week on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we’re pleased to welcome back Basha Rubin, CEO and co-founder of Priori. It's been about four years since Basha last joined us, and in that time, Priori has gone through a remarkable transformation. What began as a marketplace connecting clients with flexible legal talent and boutique firms has evolved into a robust platform with innovative RFP and panel management tools that help organizations better manage, evaluate, and leverage their outside counsel relationships.In our conversation, Basha reflects on more than a decade of building and leading a legal tech company. She shares insights on scaling a business, evolving a product in a fast-changing market, and navigating the growing complexity of legal data. We also talk about how Priori is preparing for the next wave of technology shaping the legal industry, and she gives us a look into her work with the Yale Law School fund board. It was great catching up with Basha, and we hope you enjoy listening to the conversation.Read the full transcript of today's episode here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Basha-Rubin-Returns.pdf
Today we’re joined by Sateesh Nori. Sateesh is the chief legal futurist at LawDroid and a senior research fellow at NYU School of Law. His work sits at the crossroads of justice, technology, and public service. Before moving into legal innovation, he spent years serving New Yorkers as a housing rights attorney and later as a managing attorney at both The Legal Aid Society and Legal Services of New York City. Now, at LawDroid, Sateesh is focused on making sure legal technology isn't just cutting edge, but also credible, ethical, and grounded in real-world needs, especially the urgent need to expand access to justice. Last year, he partnered with Housing Court Answers and the legal tech company Josef to launch Roxanne the Repair Bot, an AI-powered assistant designed to help New York tenants understand and assert their rights when dealing with unsafe or substandard housing conditions. He is also the author of Sheltered: Twenty Years in Housing Court, which is a powerful look at the systemic challenges facing tenants, as well as the lawyers who work to serve them.In this episode, Sateesh shares how LawDroid’s tools are helping tenants navigate complex legal processes, why trust is so essential in the future of AI and law, how law schools can better prepare lawyers for a tech-enabled profession, and what he is exploring through his research fellowship at NYU.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Sateesh-Nori.pdf
This week, we’re shining a spotlight on meaningful innovation in the access to justice space by revisiting our conversation with Kristen Sonday, co-founder and CEO of Paladin. Kristen and her team are transforming the way pro bono work happens—making it easier for law firms, legal departments, and nonprofits to connect lawyers with opportunities while cutting down on the administrative friction that so often gets in the way. For anyone interested in justice tech, Paladin remains a standout example of innovation driven by real impact. We hope you enjoy this replay.We're diving into the world of access to justice with Kristen Sonday, a true trailblazer in making pro bono legal work more efficient and effective. Kristen is the co-founder and CEO of Paladin, an organization dedicated to increasing pro bono engagement while reducing administrative burdens. Through partnerships with law firms, corporate legal teams, bar associations, the US government, and over 300 legal service organizations, Paladin is helping to bridge the justice gap by streamlining how legal professionals connect with those in need. Before launching Paladin, Kristen worked on international criminal matters for the US Department of Justice in Mexico and Central America, and was part of the founding team of a New York City-based tech startup. She also shares her insights in her Thomson Reuters Institute column NextGen Justice Tech, where she explores the role of technology in expanding access to justice. Beyond her work in legal tech, Kristen is a founding partner of LongJump, a Chicago-based venture capital fund focused on supporting the next generation of founders.In our conversation, Kristen takes us through how Paladin is creating a blueprint for justice technology, her journey into access to justice work, the mission of LongJump, and the key lessons she has learned from her entrepreneurial journey.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Best-of-Pioneers-Kristen-Sonday.pdf
Technology Meetup.In this return visit, Dan joins us for a wide-ranging discussion about rethinking the end-to-end process of legal work, the impact of generative AI on legal education and practice, his work with the ABA legal analytics committee, and why sustained investment in the judiciary is essential to the future of the legal system.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_DanLinnaReturns.pdf
On today's episode of Pioneers and Pathfinders, we're delighted to welcome Carrie Fletcher, a leadership development expert, lawyer, and longtime force for change in the legal profession. With more than 30 years of experience, Carrie’s work spans leadership workshops, executive coaching, consultancy, and thought leadership. As the global head of faculty at O Shaped, she works with law firms and legal departments to reimagine legal leadership through a client-centric, business-focused lens. At Cambridge University’s Møller Institute, Carrie helps global professional services leaders strengthen their leadership and strategy skills to achieve greater impact. She delivers master's level, team-based leadership programs at London Business School and collaborates with faculty there on leadership research and case studies. Carrie also serves as an affiliate instructor with Harvard Law School’s Executive Education program, working with partners and emerging leaders around the world.In our conversation, Carrie reflects on how leadership development in law firms has evolved, what she's learned from working across global markets, how O Shaped equips lawyers for modern leadership roles, and the skills lawyers need not just to succeed, but to thrive in today's profession.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_CarrieFletcher.pdf
This week on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we're joined by Taylor Bell, founding partner of Arizona ABS Law PLLC. Taylor works at the forefront of one of the most closely watched experiments in legal innovation, Arizona's alternative business structure (ABS) framework. As a fractional general counsel and employment law attorney, Taylor advises law firms, legal tech companies, and investors on every stage of the ABS life cycle, from formation and certification to compliance, governance, and risk management. His work sits at the intersection of regulation, operations, and growth, helping organizations navigate complexity while building sustainable businesses.In our conversation, Taylor shares what he's seeing on the ground as Arizona lawyers and consumers respond to ABS models, the qualities he looks for when assembling an ABS team, and how he balances the realities of entrepreneurship with family life. It's a practical, candid look at how regulatory change meets real-world legal work.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_TaylorBell.pdf
Today we’re catching up with Daniel Lewis, CEO of LegalOn Technologies. LegalOn is transforming the way legal professionals review and negotiate contracts through advanced contract AI, helping thousands of lawyers work faster and with greater accuracy. Since Daniel last joined us, LegalOn has had some major accomplishments: its first acquisition, the close of Series E funding, the launch of its matter management solution, and an announced collaboration with OpenAI.In our conversation, Daniel shares insights on these recent accomplishments and dives into the challenges of AI adoption in legal tech as the technology continues to evolve. We also explore the implications of generative AI for junior lawyers and what it means for career development in the legal profession.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_DanielLewisReturns.pdf
We welcome all of you back and hope you had a wonderful holiday season. To start the new year, we’re joined by Ruby Powers, co-vice chair of the 2026 ABA TECHSHOW. Ruby is an immigration law attorney with nearly 20 years of experience, a speaker, and author of Power Up Your Practice. Through Powers Strategy Group LLC, Ruby provides strategic consulting services and hosts the podcast Power Up Your Practice.In our conversation, Ruby gives us a detailed preview of the ABA TECHSHOW and the range of topics the conference will cover in March. We also dive into the mindset shifts lawyers need in order to embrace legal technology and innovation. Additionally, Ruby shares her career journey and the insights she has gained along the way.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_RubyPowers.pdf
For our last episode of the year, we’re pleased to welcome back to the podcast Justin Ergler. Justin is a consultant focused on legal operations, outside counsel management, and client value strategy. Listeners may know Justin from his work at GlaxoSmithKline, where he pioneered the award-winning Outside Counsel Selection Initiative and led the company’s global transition away from the billable hour to non-hourly, value-based fee arrangements. Justin also co-founded the Legal Value Network and continues to serve as a board member. Additionally, Justin is co-host of the podcast Off the Clock with Keith Maziarek. Justin and Keith had previously joined us for a two-part discussion in May.Today, Justin returns for a one-on-one conversation about finding the procurement path, why he values being part of a team, helping law firms tackle the challenges of data, and his thoughts on generative AI’s impact on legal services pricing.We will be off the next two weeks. Happy holidays to all our listeners and thank you for another great year! We will return January 7 with a new episode.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_JustinErgler.pdf
This week, we sit down with Ross Guberman, founder and CEO of BriefCatch—the leading legal writing assistant designed to help lawyers draft clear, precise, and impactful documents. A former attorney at a top law firm, Ross has conducted thousands of opinion writing workshops across the globe for prominent law firms, judges, agencies, corporations, and associations. Ross is also an award-winning journalist and best-selling author of Point Made: How to Write Like the Nation’s Top Advocates, Point Taken: How to Write Like the World’s Best Judges, and co-author of Deal Struck: The World’s Best Drafting Tips.In today’s episode, Ross shares his journey into law, the framework he developed for evaluating legal writing, and lessons learned from building BriefCatch. We also explore how technology is transforming legal writing and what generative AI could mean for the future of the profession.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_RossGuberman.pdf
assistant general counsel on the Business Law team at Allstate—and a returning guest from our very first AI virtual roundtable. For over a decade, Travis has been at the forefront of innovation and legal strategy in the financial services and tech sectors. At Allstate, he has built cross-functional legal teams that seamlessly integrate with product and business development, negotiated strategic B2B partnerships, and advised on complex issues around data, privacy, AI, and emerging technologies.In our conversation, Travis shares the story of how he joined Allstate and how design thinking shapes his approach to legal work. We also discuss fostering an innovation mindset, the role of curiosity in leadership, and how Travis is reimagining lawyer training for the future.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_TravisRogers.pdf
Today, we talk with a returning guest, Colin S. Levy. Since he last joined us on the podcast, Colin has become general counsel at Malbek. Malbek is a CLM provider that helps large companies manage their entire contracting function, including using AI. In 2023, he released The Legal Tech Ecosystem, a book exploring the evolving legal world and how to leverage technology within it. He also teaches legal tech courses at Albany Law School and is working on a new book aimed at using AI in practical ways as a lawyer and legal professional.In our conversation, Colin talks about why he wrote the book and his approach as a law professor in the age of generative AI. We also discuss the importance of collaboration and cross-disciplinary work in in-house legal roles.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_ColinS.Levy.pdf
Our guest this week is Gus Neate. Gus is the CEO and co-founder of WilsonAI. WilsonAI, in turn, is a startup using AI to streamline legal operations for businesses. Gus is an Oxford graduate who began his career as an engineer before pivoting to law, working as a private equity lawyer at Clifford Chance. His diverse background also includes co-founding a tutoring company and working in product management at a legal tech startup. As an in-house lawyer, Gus witnessed firsthand the inefficiencies caused by repetitive legal tasks—an experience that continues to inspire his innovative work at WilsonAI.Today, Gus shares how his engineering background shaped his approach to legal problem-solving, the journey of building WilsonAI, and his vision for how AI can empower legal teams. He also offers valuable advice for those entering the legal tech space.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_GusNeate.pdf
Ideation for Market Technology at Nasdaq, where she introduced scientific research methodologies to enhance innovation and development processes. A recognized thought leader, Wendy speaks globally on topics such as AI, surveillance, cognitive engineering, organizational resilience, and the intersection of conduct and culture with technology design.In our conversation, Wendy shares insights into the behavioral science behind legal professionals, the founding story and mission of Let’s Think, and her vision for the future of lawyer training and workplace transformation.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_WendyJephson.pdf
Today, we’re joined by Jack Cushman, director of the Harvard Library Innovation Lab, where he and his team are reimagining how library principles can shape the future of legal technology. Jack is a software engineer and appellate attorney who previously led the development of the Caselaw Access Project. He has also taught computer programming at Harvard Law School, served as a Berkman fellow, and sat on the board of the ACLU of Massachusetts. At the Library Innovation Lab, Jack explores how libraries can better collect, preserve, and share knowledge. His current work focuses on the fragility of digital cultural memory and the emergence of AI as a new form of knowledge.In our conversation, Jack reflects on his journey from computer programming to law school, the evolving mission of libraries in the digital age, and the skills lawyers need to thrive in an AI-driven world. He also shares his perspective on how we should measure the impact and reliability of AI systems in legal practice.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_%20JackCushman.pdf
This week, we’re revisiting our conversation with Leah Molatseli, formerly of Contract Alchemists. Since her appearance on the podcast, Leah has taken on a new role as Country Liaison in South Africa for the legal tech company Saga, where she is still helping lawyers navigate technology, innovation, and more recently AI.In this wide-ranging episode, Leah shares her perspective on the South African legal community, her passion for writing, and the importance of purpose-driven work. It’s a conversation full of inspiration and forward-thinking ideas.Thank you for listening. We will return next week with a new episode.This week, we welcome Leah Molatseli, founder of Contract Alchemists, a company with the goal of modernizing legal teams through legal operations, agile methodologies, and technology. Leah has over 10 years of experience in the legal field, and has a certificate in Entrepreneurship and Innovation from the University of Notre Dame. After practicing for a few years, she co-founded Lenoma Legal, a virtual legal tech startup aimed at helping small businesses in South Africa. Prior to starting Contract Alchemists, Leah was head of business development at Legal Interact, a legal tech company. She is also a speaker, a published author, and a council member at the University of the Free State. Additionally, she recently joined LexisNexis South Africa as an author and became a Voice and Brand Council Member at the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC).In today's conversation, Leah discusses the legal community in South Africa, how she approaches her writing, the TV shows that inspired her to become an attorney, and how being purpose-driven shapes her decision-making.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_LeahMolatseli.pdf
Today's guest is Leslie Grandy, an author, speaker, and trusted advisor to CEOs, product leaders, and teams. Leslie's career has taken some fascinating turns—from working in the film industry to guiding major brands on strategy and innovation. She's also deeply committed to education, having taught product leaders through The Product Guild, the University of Michigan Center for Entrepreneurship, and as guest lecturer at the University of Washington's Foster School of Business. Leslie recently added author to her list of accomplishments with the release of her book, Creative Velocity, which explores how to drive better results and better collaboration through creativity and the thoughtful use of generative AI.In our conversation, Leslie talks about the importance of embracing a creative career path and discovering her personal superpower. We talk about her thesis that creativity is a learnable, repeatable system. We also discuss why reframing problems is often the key to solving them, the role of culture and creative problem solving, and her thoughts on how organizations should be approaching AI tools.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_LeslieGrandy.pdf
This week, we're joined by David Freeman Engstrom and Natalie Knowlton from the Deborah Rhode Center on the Legal Profession at Stanford Law. David, who serves as co-director of the Center and holds the LSVF professorship in law, has devoted his work to access to justice issues in millions of often overlooked cases, such as debt collection, eviction, foreclosure, and child support. Earlier this year, he published Rethinking the Lawyers’ Monopoly, a major contribution to the ongoing debate about the future of legal services and regulation. You may remember Natalie from her appearance on the podcast in 2023. Since then, she stepped into the role of associate director for legal innovation at the Rhode Center, where she focuses on legal technology, court modernization, and regulatory reform. Just this summer, the Center released a groundbreaking report, which she and David co-wrote, called Legal Innovation After Reform: Five Years of Data on Regulatory Change, which analyzes the reforms in Arizona and Utah.In today's episode, David and Natalie share insights from that report and discuss the broader implications for the legal system. We will also hear from David about his unexpected journey from coaching high school football in the Mississippi Delta to joining the Stanford Law faculty. Additionally, we talk about what today's law students need to understand about how technology is reshaping the practice of law.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_DavidEngstrom_NatalieKnowlton.pdf
This week, we're joined by Jason Marty, CEO of Lumio, a company helping legal leaders grow their businesses and adapt to the age of AI. Jason brings a wealth of experience to the new venture. He started in internet program management before moving into the legal industry, where he served as global COO at both Baker McKenzie and Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner. He later co-founded Lumio alongside Jae Um and Ed Sohn, both past podcast guests, with a vision of creating a “service as software” company for the business of law.Jason shares Lumio’s origin story, his career journey, and what excites him most about the evolving legal tech landscape. If you want to know what “service as software” means to Jason, take a listen now.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_JasonMarty.pdf
We're pleased to welcome back Jordan Furlong. Jordan is one of the legal industry's leading voices on the future of the profession. He continues to advise legal organizations through his consulting practice, Law21, and is currently working on a new book exploring how generative AI will reshape the practice of law, which is set to be published next year.In this episode, we talk about the balance between the commercial and societal responsibilities of today's lawyers, the evolving purpose of the profession in the age of AI, and his recommendations for firms navigating this wave of change.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_JordanFurlongReturns.pdf
Today's guest is Jonathan Petts, co-founder and CEO of Upsolve, a nonprofit helping low-income Americans overcome debt at scale. Jonathan's career has been focused on bankruptcy law, from clerking for bankruptcy judges to practicing at top New York firms. In 2016, he co-founded Upsolve, and since then, the platform has become the nation's most visited nonprofit financial education site. Its free bankruptcy tool has already helped more than 14,000 families relieve over $600 million in debt.Jonathan talks about his path into bankruptcy law, the story of founding Upsolve, the importance of building strong nonprofit partnerships, and the advice he’d give his younger self.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_JonathanPetts.pdf
growth officer. She also continues as an advisor to PerfectIt, a proofreading tool for legal professionals.In this episode, Ivy walks us through her “sandwich” approach to writing with generative AI, and how new tools in WordRake are helping users write more clearly and confidently. We also talk about staying ethically grounded while using gen AI, and how emerging tech might reshape legal training and apprenticeships. Ivy brings a usual mix of insight, clarity, and energy.Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_IvyGreyReturns.pdf
We’re excited to welcome back Lucy Bassli, founder and principal at InnoLaw Group. Lucy is a leading voice in legal operations and contract lifecycle management (CLM), helping organizations rethink how they handle contracts through smarter processes and technology, including—of course—AI. Lucy is an advisor to several legal tech companies.In our conversation, Lucy shares why so many people are feeling “CLM fatigue” and what needs to change. We also talk about the future of legal education and how technology is reshaping everything, from pricing to professional training. It's a conversation full of her insight and refreshing, candid comments.Read the full transcript of the episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_LucyBassliReturns.pdf
Innovation Clinic, the only clinic in Georgia authorized by the US Patent and Trademark Office to allow law students to practice patent law. In our conversation, Nicole talks about how she found her way into legal education and why experiential learning is so essential for today's students. It's a must-listen as we gear up for the fall. Thank you very much. We’re back after the holiday with a new episode.This week, we're joined by Nicole Morris, professor of practice at Emory University School of Law, director of the Innovation and Legal Tech Initiative, and director of the TI:GER program. Nicole has had a fascinating, multifaceted career journey. After working as a chemical engineer for several years, she decided to go to law school. She then became a patent attorney at large and midsize law firms, and later worked in-house. As a professor of practice at Emory, Nicole's focus includes patent law, patent litigation, IP licensing, and strategy. She is director of the school's program Technological Innovation: Generating Economic Results (TI:GER). TI:GER is an innovative program that brings together graduate students in law, business, science, and engineering to work on ways to take innovative ideas from the lab to the marketplace.In our discussion, Nicole talks about her journey from chemical engineering to law, the various elements of TI:GER, and the importance of human skills in the legal profession.Read a transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/BestofPioneers_NicoleMorris.pdf
E lawyer, the connection between DEI and well-being, and the challenges of managing global diversity initiatives.Read the full transcript of the episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Bestof_DeniseRobinson.pdf
Partners, the FT Innovative Lawyers program, and the RSG India report.In our conversation, Reena shares how she went from studying history to becoming a global voice for legal innovation. We talk about how her thinking around innovation has evolved, what trends she's watching now, and why many law firm leaders need a mindset shift to keep up with what's next.Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_ReenaSenGupta.pdf
We’re excited to welcome back Nicole Bradick, one of our earliest guests on the podcast. Since last we spoke, a lot has changed. Nicole is now global head of innovation at Factor, following the acquisition of her design and development studio, Theory and Principle. She's also an advisor at both Paladin and LEGA, continuing to help push the boundaries of legal tech and justice innovation.In this episode, Nicole talks about the transition of Theory and Principle into Factor, and what that's meant for her work. She also shares why it's important to be a healthy skeptic when it comes to new tech, how generative AI might improve access to justice, and what advice she has for anyone looking to build a career in legal tech.Read the full transcript of the episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_NicoleBradickReturns.pdf
Today, we’re joined by Ian Nelson, co-founder of Hotshot, a video-based learning platform that helps lawyers pick up essential legal, business, and technology skills in a more modern, practical way. Ian started out as a corporate lawyer who quickly found himself drawn to more innovative approaches to legal work. After being inspired by a firm in the UK, he jumped into something totally new—Practical Law—back when the idea of legal know-how resources was still pretty foreign in the US.In our conversation, Ian shares what sparked that leap from practicing law to shaping how lawyers learn. We talk about what it was like introducing Practical Law to a skeptical market, how the pandemic reshaped training at Hotshot, and how younger generations are driving change in legal education.Read the full transcript of the episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_IanNelson.pdf
D arm of the AAA-ICDR. She is also still serving as executive director of the Justice Technology Association, advising startups, and writing her monthly Scaling Justice column for Thomson Reuters Institute.In this episode, Maya talks about her new role at the AAA, and how the organization is thinking about innovation—a fascinating case study on change management for a successful longtime organization. We also dig into the uneven landscape of AI oversight in dispute resolution, and hear her take on what's emerging and exciting in the world of justice tech.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_MayaMarkovichReturns.pdf
Today's guest is Oded Oren, the founder and executive director of Scrutinize, a nonprofit that uses data analytics, AI, and legal research to shed light on complex judicial data. Before starting Scrutinize, Oded was a public defender in the Bronx. While there, he began digging into publicly available court data to spot patterns in how judges were ruling, an approach that soon evolved into the foundation for Scrutinize.In our conversation, Oded shares how his work in the courtroom sparked the idea for the organization, what kind of feedback they've received, and what's next for Scrutinize. We also talk about the challenges and rewards of building something new in the legal space, and the advice he has for others thinking of doing the same.Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_OdedOren.pdf
This week, we're revisiting one of our most compelling conversations—with Damien Riehl, a technology lawyer, coder, and thought leader at the intersection of law and innovation. At the time of our conversation, Damien was vice president and Solutions Champion at vLex. vLex recently made headlines with its acquisition by Clio, which is a move that signals a new chapter in the evolution of legal technology. So, we thought now is an apt time to replay this conversation with Damien.His career has spanned roles at Thomson, Reuters, Fastcase, and the SALI Alliance. Our discussion touched on a wide range of topics: his early experience as a tech attorney, the complexities of confidentiality and legal AI, music copyright, and the enduring value of a liberal arts education. We hope you enjoy this encore episode as much as we did.Our guest today is Damien Riehl, vice president and Solutions Champion at vLex, a platform using artificial intelligence solutions to streamline workflows and provide lawyers with greater access to knowledge and resources. Damien was a tech attorney for more than 10 years when he made the leap to Thomson Reuters as Senior Product Strategist, where he developed innovative legal technology involving artificial intelligence, machine learning, and natural language processing. Inspired by Ed Walters’ efforts to democratize the law, Damien later joined Fastcase, where he served various roles building out legal tools and systems. In his current position at vLex, Damien helps lead the design, development, and expansion of products. Additionally, Damien is part of the leadership team at the Standards Advancement for the Legal Industry (SALI) Alliance. He is also co-founder of All the Music LLC, a project that involved copyrighting 471 billion melodies and placing them in the public domain. In 2019, Damien delivered a TED Talk in which he describes this process and offers a new way to handle copyright infringement lawsuits in music.In today’s conversation, Damien discusses vLex's newest product—Vincent AI, his decision to leave practice and join Thomson Reuters, the genesis of All the Music, and the future of teaching legal research.Read the full transcript of the episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Bestof_DamienRiehl.pdf
High Tech and Financial Services Market Units.Today, Dennis shares stories from his early days at IBM, and how he developed his skills as a deal lawyer at Accenture. He also discusses the different ways he has been using Copilot in his work, as well as the ethical considerations of using generative AI in legal practice.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_DennisGarcia.pdf
Today, we're joined by Kevin Walker, founder and CEO of Centari, a deal intelligence platform that combines secure LLMs with trusted legal precedent to accelerate transactions. Kevin started as an M&A attorney at Paul Hastings before moving in-house to lead teams in real estate and private equity. Drawing on his experience representing businesses, he took the entrepreneurial leap to found Centari, where he has built products that he and his peers always wished they had as dealmakers.In our discussion, Kevin speaks with us about his passion for dealmaking and why he decided to transition to business. We also talk about how he and his team at Centari are making use of deal intelligence. Additionally, Kevin offers thoughtful advice for lawyers contemplating a career pivot into business or tech.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_KevinWalker.pdf
This week's guest, Dr. Roland Vogl, is a leading voice in legal education and the legal profession. He is the Executive Director of the Stanford Program in Law, Science, and Technology, and a lecturer in law at Stanford Law School. Dr. Vogl also co-founded and leads CodeX, the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics, where he drives cutting-edge research for the application of technology in the legal profession. In addition to his work at Stanford, Dr. Vogl serves as a visiting professor at the University of Vienna, where he teaches US intellectual property law. He is also a co-founder and board member of Merico, Inc., a platform focused on software engineering metrics. Dr. Vogl plays an active role in the legal tech ecosystem, advising legal tech and legal generative AI companies. Since 2022, he has served on the executive committee of the International Association for AI and Law.In this episode, Dr. Vogl discusses his journey from legal practice to academia, offering insights into the unique culture at Stanford Law School that helped spark the creation of CodeX. We also explore how CodeX selects its projects and how it’s adapting to the transformative rise of generative AI.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Dr.RolandVogl.pdf
This week, we're speaking with Anastasia Boyko, a legal futurist and product evangelist at Filevine, a legal work platform for law firms and businesses. Anastasia has had a diverse career path, from practicing tax law to transformational and change management roles to legal education. She has created and led innovative programs at Yale Law School and the University of Utah SJ Quinney College of Law, where she has applied her knowledge of legal practice and business. Today, at Filevine, she collaborates with her team on creating and incubating new products in legal tech.In our conversation, Anastasia tells us about her journey to the legal field and why she ultimately decided to finish law school. We also discuss the need for empathy and kindness when training new lawyers, her exciting role as a legal futurist, and why law students should develop a range of skills.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_%20AnastasiaBoyko.pdf
We're joined today by a true leader and team-builder in legal tech: Mark Smolik, Chief Legal Officer at DHL Supply Chain Americas. Mark has been at the forefront of innovation in the industry for decades, having previously served as Senior Corporate Counsel at the Sherwin-Williams Company, as well as General Counsel & Secretary, Head of Human Resources, and Ethics Officer at Safelite AutoGlass. Across these various roles, Mark has been relied on for executing legal, compliance, and business strategies that mitigate risk and drive value.In our discussion, Mark talks about the DHL Legal Innovation Summit in June, his approach to team-building and shaping culture, the important advice he received on delivering value, and his DHL team's approach to managing risk.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_MarkSmolik.pdf
We're back with part two of our conversation with Justin Ergler and Keith Maziarek, two sharp voices at the forefront of legal innovation and co-hosts of the Off the Clock podcast. In this second episode, we dig deeper into the forces driving legal transformation. We talk about what motivates real change in the industry, why managing change—not just demanding it—is key to moving the industry forward, and why culture is such a critical but often overlooked component of successful change management.Whether you're inside a law firm or on the client side, this is a candid, practical look at the challenges and opportunities of modern legal practice. Thanks for taking the time to listen in. Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_KeithMaziarek_JustinErlger_Pt.2.pdf
This week, on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we're doing something a little different, with a special two-part conversation featuring Justin Ergler and Keith Maziarek, co-hosts of the Off the Clock podcast and board members of the Legal Value Network. Now, you may remember Keith from a previous episode. He's the Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management at Katten Muchin Rosenman. Justin, a veteran of GlaxoSmithKline, now leads his own consulting practice focused on alternative fee arrangements and innovative legal service delivery.In part one of our wide-ranging discussion, we talked about why this is a great time to enter the legal profession, the ongoing frustrations with the pace of change, and how law firms and legal departments are rethinking billing structures. Read the full transcript of this episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_KeithMaziarek_JustinErlger_Pt.1.pdf
Today, we revisit one of our most thought-provoking conversations, this time with Dr. Megan Ma. Since she joined us on the podcast, Dr. Ma has co-founded and become the Executive Director of the Stanford Legal Innovation through Frontier Technology Lab—otherwise known as liftlab. With a rich background in political science, economics, health law, and economic law, Dr. Ma brings a truly interdisciplinary lens to the future of legal education and technology. In our conversation, she shares her insights on how we train the next generation of lawyers, why mentorship and thoughtful design matter, and what it means to build a future-ready legal profession. Whether you're a seasoned practitioner or just starting your career, this episode is full of wisdom and perspective on where the law is headed and how we will get there.Our guest this week is a leading thinker on the application of generative AI in the legal profession. Dr. Megan Ma is the associate director of Stanford’s Law, Science, and Technology Program, as well as the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics—better known as CodeX. She also teaches courses in computational law and insurance tech. Dr. Ma has a background in a variety of fields: She majored in political science and economics, has master's degrees in health law and economic law, and earned her PhD in law. Additionally, Dr. Ma is an advisor to the PearX for AI program, and serves as editor-in-chief for the Cambridge Forum on AI, Law, and Governance, as the managing editor of the MIT Computational Law Report, and as a research affiliate at Singapore Management University in their Centre for Computational Law.We had a fascinating conversation about Dr. Ma’s lifelong interest in linguistics, how "empathetic" large language models can be for users, how generative AI could change lawyer mentorship, and her thoughts on the future of technology in the profession.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Bestof_Dr.MeganMa.pdf
Today, on Pioneers and Pathfinders, we're joined by Farrah Pepper, Chief Legal Innovation Counsel at Marsh McLennan—and a true force in the world of legal innovation. Farrah has built a career at the intersection of law, technology, and strategy, from founding Gibson Dunn's Global eDiscovery practice to leading GE's Discovery Center of Excellence to shaping the future of legal innovation at Marsh McLennan. She also plays a key role at Legal Data Intelligence, helping professionals unlock the power of legal data to solve real-world challenges.In our conversation, Farrah shares what drives her boundless energy, how to build community in the legal tech space, and why the design phase is critical to innovation. We also talked about the importance of leadership support and the lessons she's learned along the way. Farrah was thoughtful and inspiring, so don't miss an episode with one of the leading voices in legal transformation.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_FarrahPepper.pdf
Our guest this week is Christina Wojcik, Head of Innovation & Partnerships at Pierson Ferdinand LLP—and a true pioneer in legal tech and professional services. Christina's career started on the business side of law, where she built high-performing teams and supported major transactions and reviews. As technology began reshaping the legal landscape, she leaned in, becoming one of the early leaders in AI-powered document analysis and helping to find a new era of legal service delivery. Now, at Pierson Ferdinand, an incredibly new and fast-growing law firm, Christina leads strategy around innovation and partnerships, working to deliver smarter, more efficient solutions for clients. She is also the founder of the Tampa Legal Network, a group that brings in-house legal professionals together across roles—lawyers and allied professionals alike—with an emphasis on inclusion and collaboration.In our conversation, Christina reflects on what we learned from the shift from paper to electronic communications, how she stays ahead in a fast-moving tech environment, the exciting work she is doing at Pierson Ferdinand, and her advice for anyone looking to build a career in legal tech. It was a great conversation with one of the field's most forward-thinking voices.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_ChristinaWojcik.pdf
We’re joined this week by Melissa Lauderdale, an executive director for a large company, and someone who is a true force in legal innovation. Melissa has spent her career transforming how legal teams operate, driving efficiency and building inclusive, high-performing teams in the fast-paced world of corporate law. From her work modernizing legal operations at Exelon to securing industry-first regulatory approvals at Constellation, she has been at the forefront of reshaping compliance and legal processes through technology and smart strategy. Melissa continues to lead change, designing risk mitigation strategies, automating compliance systems, and helping her organizations stay both agile and accountable. She has also earned honors for her work in DEI, like the 2023 DEI Champion Award and 2020 ACC Value Champions. Additionally, she frequently shares her insights in legal ops leadership with top-industry forums.In today's episode, Melissa shares her journey into the legal world, how she inspires legal teams to embrace technology, her approach to building inclusive workplaces, and the principles that have guided her leadership along the way. It was a conversation full of practical insights and inspirations.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_MelissaLauderdale.pdf
As lawyers ascend to leadership roles within their firms and organizations, they often face difficult challenges such as the need for guidance and coping with feelings of isolation. Our guest this week, Rudhir Krishtel, is dedicated to supporting legal professionals in navigating these issues. As an advisor, Rudhir provides spaces for lawyers, law firms, legal departments, and companies to have meaningful dialogue and growth around well-being, collective engagement, leadership, and business. He and his team use mindfulness-based practices to work with teams and individuals on identifying their particular challenges and finding solutions. Rudhir practiced law for 15 years, being a law firm partner with a patent litigation practice, and then worked as in-house counsel of IP transactions at Apple. He ultimately transitioned to advisory work, drawing on his prior professional experience and business principles he learned, in order to assist clients with overcoming their obstacles.In our wide-ranging conversation, Rudhir discusses his mindfulness-based approach to advising clients, how organizations can initiate cultural innovation, the aspects of practice that are often missed in lawyer training, and his advice for lawyer well-being in day-to-day work.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/pioneers_RudhirKrishtel.pdf
Timekeeping and billing have long been pain points for lawyers, but today's guest, Adrian Parlow, is working to change that. As the co-founder and CEO of PointOne, he's leveraging AI to automate time tracking and bill review, helping law firms capture more revenue while reducing administrative burdens. Adrian's path to legal tech began in startup law. After beginning his career at Fenwick & West, he transitioned to the business side as general counsel at Wefunder, an online crowdfunding platform for startups. That experience sparked his interest in innovation and led him to launch PointOne, where he and his team are helping firms rethink their approach to timekeeping and billing in the AI era.Adrian joins us to talk about tackling the challenge of timekeeping, his journey from lawyer to entrepreneur, how PointOne is transforming billing practices, and why legal organizations are re-evaluating their stance on AI and innovation.Read the full transcript of today’s episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Adrian_Parlow.pdf
In this special edition of Pioneers and Pathfinders, we celebrate the fourth anniversary of the podcast. As we look back, one thing stands out: Our guests come from a wonderfully diverse set of professional backgrounds, but they all share a common thread—a belief that the legal profession can and must evolve to meet the challenges and opportunities of our time. The conversations we've had on this podcast reflect both the challenges and incredible opportunities ahead.Listen in for insights from:Former Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack• Former Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack• Andrew Perlman• Marla Crawford• Heidi Alexander• Kris Niedringhaus• Denise Robinson• Leah Molatseli• Kimberly Fine• Nicole Morris• Ned Gannon• Sanjay Kamlani• Ilona Logvinova• Steve Harmon• Zack DeMeola• Damien Riehl• Jordan Furlong• Jennifer Leonard• Dr. Megan Ma• Richard SusskindWe’d like to thank all of you who listen to the podcast. Your engagement, feedback, and curiosity are what make this community so special. We also thank our incredible guests from over the years, who have been so generous in sharing their time, their stories, and their bold ideas. We’ll be back next week with more insights from the trailblazers shaping the future of law.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_FourthAnniversary.pdf
This week, we're diving into the world of access to justice with Kristen Sonday, a true trailblazer in making pro bono legal work more efficient and effective. Kristen is the co-founder and CEO of Paladin, an organization dedicated to increasing pro bono engagement while reducing administrative burdens. Through partnerships with law firms, corporate legal teams, bar associations, the US government, and over 300 legal service organizations, Paladin is helping to bridge the justice gap by streamlining how legal professionals connect with those in need. Before launching Paladin, Kristen worked on international criminal matters for the US Department of Justice in Mexico and Central America, and was part of the founding team of a New York City-based tech startup. She also shares her insights in her Thomson Reuters Institute column NextGen Justice Tech, where she explores the role of technology in expanding access to justice. Beyond her work in legal tech, Kristen is a founding partner of LongJump, a Chicago-based venture capital fund focused on supporting the next generation of founders.In our conversation, Kristen takes us through how Paladin is creating a blueprint for justice technology, her journey into access to justice work, the mission of LongJump, and the key lessons she has learned from her entrepreneurial journey.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/Pioneers_Kristen_Sonday.pdf
Today, we host a fantastic guest, Barbara Rogers, Vice President of Legal Operations, Strategy & Transformation at Honeywell, a Fortune 500 powerhouse known for developing cutting-edge technologies that tackle global challenges in safety, security, and energy. Barbara is at the heart of driving transformation within the company's legal operations. With a career spanning HR, procurement, and legal, she has led large-scale global transformation initiatives. She started out as an attorney focused on commercial and consumer plaintiff work, before moving into strategic business roles, including a time at Motorola as Senior Strategic Business Alliance Manager. Now, at Honeywell, she's building a forward-thinking legal operations function—one that's guided by strategy, innovation, and a clear roadmap for the future. In fact, her team's work was recognized last year with the Financial Times North America Innovative Lawyers Award for Innovation in Operational Transformation.In our conversation, Barbara shares her insights on legal operations and strategy at Honeywell, how she's cultivating a creative and innovative team, the common thread that ties together her diverse career, and how to navigate the fear and opportunities surrounding generative AI.Read the full transcript of today's episode here: https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/pioneers_Barbara_Rogers.pdf
Our guest this week, Hal Brooks, is the CEO at HaystackID Group Holdings, a specialized eDiscovery services firm helping corporations and law firms find, understand, and learn from data when facing complex, data-intensive investigations and litigation. Hal is an eDiscovery and litigation technology professional with more than 25 years of experience. He has participated in the acquisition and growth of several industry-leading companies, and has helped businesses address challenges in the areas of litigation strategy, automated discovery processes, and cybersecurity. This year, Hal was given the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Legalweek Leaders in Tech Law Awards.Today, Hal speaks with us about the advice he received at the beginning of his career, the evolution of the eDiscovery industry, Haystack's commitment to being a voice of reason, and the need for continuous education as technology evolves.Read the full transcript of today's episode here:https://www.seyfarth.com/dir_docs/podcast_transcripts/pioneers_Hal_Brooks.pdf
We're joined today by Ned Gannon, co-founder and CEO of Coheso, an AI-powered work management platform for in-house legal and compliance teams. At the start of his career, Ned was a corporate attorney, primarily focusing on mergers and acquisitions on behalf of private equity funds. Fascinated by entrepreneurship, he ultimately took the leap into business himself. One of his ventures was co-founding eBrevia, an AI-based contract analysis software. Today, at Coheso, he and his team help legal and compliance teams run faster and more streamlined operations, while improving productivity throughout an organization. Additionally, Ned speaks frequently on topics related to artificial intelligence and the legal industry.Ned spoke with us about how earning a master’s degree in public administration prepared him for business, what it means for Coheso to be a "legal front door," balancing automation with human involvement, and managing the challenges of growing a business.
Today, we’re joined by Heidi Alexander, the executive director of the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being, which plans and oversees efforts to enhance the well-being of lawyers, judges, and law students in the Commonwealth. As executive director, Heidi helps lawyers achieve a healthy, positive, and productive balance of work, personal life, and health. Heidi has a wide-ranging background in law and well-being work. She has been deputy director of a nonprofit lawyer assistance program that provides mental health support, addiction support, and practice management services. Heidi has also owned a solo law practice, practiced employment law and litigation, clerked for a justice on the New Jersey Supreme Court, and worked for a nonprofit women's business assistance center. Additionally, she is an avid speaker on topics such as attorney well-being, time management, productivity, and legal technology, and she has authored numerous articles and a book published by the American Bar Association's Law Practice Management Division, Evernote as a Law Practice Tool.In our wide-ranging conversation, Heidi talks with us about the mission and work of the committee, the various challenges to the well-being of lawyers, how her personal experience inspired her to focus on public service, and using technology to help with well-being.
This week's guest, Marla Crawford, is a respected attorney, strategic advisor, and thought leader with over 35 years of experience in the legal industry. She currently serves as general counsel at Cimplifi, an integrated legal services provider that leverages technology to simplify the experience of eDiscovery and contract analytics for law firms and legal departments. For 22 years, Marla practiced law at the international firm Jones Day, focusing on the discovery phase of litigation. She also served as associate general counsel for Goldman Sachs for 11 years, where she led the firm’s global eDiscovery practice and focused on complex commercial and securities litigation and regulatory investigations. Additionally, Marla was part of the inaugural class of the Education Advisory Council of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). Today, she advises on issues relating to information governance as well as the deployment of new technologies. Marla also speaks regularly on legal tech, eDiscovery, and information governance issues.In our conversation, Marla discusses how her father inspired her to become a lawyer, her involvement at the early stages of eDiscovery, why transparency is so important in adopting legal tech, and how generative AI has stimulated demand for other legal tech adoption.
Today we’re joined by Emily Lippincott, Senior Legal Futurist at Filevine, a legal work platform for law firms and businesses across the United States and Canada. Emily is an attorney with over 16 years of experience in Silicon Valley, both in-house and at law firms, counseling corporate clients from incorporation to public offering or acquisition. Throughout her career, she has focused on law, knowledge management, and technology, and has gained a unique perspective on the future of legal tech. At Filevine, Emily designs solutions to bring the platform and its suite of products to clients in a variety of legal disciplines.In our discussion, Emily speaks with us about why law appealed to her, what she has learned about change management, the types of projects that she and her team pursue, and how she became a legal futurist.
This week, we’re revisiting a wonderful discussion with Professor Richard Susskind. In the time since he joined us on the podcast, Richard has been promoted to CBE—Commander of the Order of the British Empire in the King's New Year Honours List 2025 for his “services to Information Technology and to the Law.” Richard has also written a new book, How To Think About AI: A Guide For The Perplexed, in which he addresses the most challenging issues of AI technology that are currently being debated—the business, risk, legal, ethical, management, and philosophical implications. The book will be available in March for those in the UK, and in April for those in the US. We have provided a link with additional information in the show notes.Congratulations to Richard on these recent accomplishments. And thank you to everyone for listening. We hope you enjoy!Today, we welcome a very special guest—Professor Richard Susskind. For those who have been engaged in the discussions around legal tech for the past few decades, Richard needs no introduction. He is one of the most advanced thinkers on the impact of technology on the profession, and has been challenging our notions about what it will mean to be a lawyer for a long time. Richard is an adviser, speaker, and author who was focused on legal tech and the future of the profession long before these subjects were top of mind in the industry. In the 1980s, he wrote his doctorate at Oxford University on artificial intelligence, and today, his main area of expertise continues to be the impact of AI and other technologies on the legal profession. Among other roles, Richard is President of the Society for Computers and Law, and Technology Adviser to the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales. He is also an adviser to leading professional firms, in-house legal departments, and governments and judiciaries around the world. He is a frequent speaker at conferences, seminars, retreats, and other events, having been invited to lecture in more than 60 countries. Richard has written 10 books and has contributed more than 150 articles to The Times of London. His most recent publication is the third edition of Tomorrow’s Lawyers, which guides legal professionals through the imminent future of law, and calls upon the next generation of lawyers to embrace technology in order to improve current legal and court services.In our conversation, Richard discusses the ways we should all be thinking about legal innovation, the challenges of training lawyers for the future, and the qualifications of those likely to develop breakthrough technologies in law, as well as his own journey and how he became interested in AI as an undergraduate student.
This week, we’re talking to Will Norton, the founder and CEO of SimplyAgree, a platform that automates the administrative tasks of a closing—from signature packets to closing binders—so attorneys can focus on getting deals done for their clients. Will’s legal journey began in undergrad, where he double-majored in math and computer science while taking philosophy and history courses. After realizing he wanted to work at the intersection of computer science and law, he went on to law school and became an M&A attorney at Baker Donelson. There, he was part of a business technology subgroup, advising startups and emerging, high-tech companies. Understanding the pain points of transactional attorneys, he later developed SimplyAgree as a way to streamline the signing and closing process for complex transactions.In our conversation, Will discusses his experience at the 2024 LegalTech Fund Summit, how he founded SimplyAgree, the impact of generative AI on the legal tech space, and what he considers “the job of the startup founder.”
Today we welcome Eric Voogt, the founder and CEO of PROOF, a legal tech company that connects law firms with independent process servers nationwide. Eric started as an engineer for an aircraft manufacturer, but left this profession to attend law school and pursue a career in law. In addition to his work at PROOF, he has been a partner at a Denver law firm for more than two decades. Eric is skilled in technology development, as well as construction law, trials, appeals, commercial litigation, and environmental law. Last year, PROOF was named “Best Practice of Law App” by Clio at the annual Clio Cloud Conference.Today, Eric tells us about his recommendation for young people planning to go to law school, why and how he created PROOF, the role of technology in addressing the A2J problem, and the legal technology developments that excite him.
Happy New Year! And welcome back to another year of Pioneers and Pathfinders!This week, we're joined by Denise Robinson, founding principal and Belonging & Well-Being Consultant at The Still Center, a consultancy that facilitates personal well-being, interpersonal connection, and organizational inclusion through mindfulness-based diversity and inclusion methods. Denise started her career as an employment litigator, focusing on discrimination claims and other employment disputes. She later changed career paths and became a global diversity and inclusion professional—serving as a law school and college admissions officer for Georgetown University, director of diversity and inclusion at O’Melveny & Myers LLP, and diversity officer at the International Monetary Fund. In her current role at The Still Center, Denise teaches contemplative practice techniques to lawyers and other professionals to promote self-awareness and authenticity, interrupt bias, and advance cultural humility.In our conversation, Denise speaks with us about how studying philosophy led her toward a legal career, what she learned as an L&E lawyer, the connection between DEI and well-being, and the challenges of managing global diversity initiatives.
In our last episode before the new year, we're talking with Ralph Baxter, a true pioneer in the legal industry. Ralph is a strategic advisor to law firms, legal tech companies, and corporate law departments, but he is probably best known for his leadership at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP. As chair and CEO of Orrick for more than two decades, he launched several groundbreaking initiatives that modernized the way the firm operated and served its clients. Today, he is a member of the board of directors at Intapp, and a member of the legal advisory board at LegalZoom. Ralph's work has extended across the legal ecosystem: legal education, law firms, law departments, legal tech companies, and public interest projects and regulatory reform. He also devotes time to thought leadership, writing a blog, and speaking at seminars and events.In our wide-ranging discussion, Ralph talks to us about his initiatives at Orrick, the key to change management, how generative AI will change legal pricing models and legal work, and the advice he shares with people considering a legal career.As 2024 comes to an end, we will be taking the next two weeks off. Thank you for listening in on all the wonderful discussions we’ve had this year. Thank you to our guests as well. We will return with new episodes on January 8th. Happy Holidays!
We're pleased to welcome back Ed Walters, a thought leader in legal tech and innovation. Since Ed last spoke with us, he has become the chief strategy officer at vLex, which merged with Ed's previous company, Fastcase. vLex is a platform using AI solutions to streamline workflows and provide lawyers with greater access to knowledge and resources. About a year ago, the company launched Vincent AI, a legal intelligence platform that references real cases and materials from vLex’s law library of over one billion legal documents. The tool is used by law firms, legal departments, and law schools around the world. In addition to his role at vLex, Ed continues to teach as an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center and at Cornell Law School. He also writes on various topics about innovation in the legal industry.Today, Ed talks about how Fastcase merged with vLex, the response to Vincent AI, and how he hopes generative AI will enhance access to justice and improve lawyer training.
Today's guest, Taylor Sartor, is the creator and legal director of FosterPower, a movement to improve the lives and futures of youth in foster care in Florida, by providing them information on their benefits, protections, and legal rights. Taylor is also a senior attorney at the L. David Shear Children’s Law Center, where she represents youth in foster care. Taylor focuses on issues related to human trafficking, disabilities, commitment in psychiatric facilities, aging out of foster care, and school-to-prison pipeline prevention, among many others. She came up with the idea for FosterPower while she was still in law school working with youth in foster care who had many questions about their rights and the resources available to them. The organization offers answers to these questions through a mobile app. An alum of Stetson University College of Law, Taylor is also the founder of Child Advocates of Stetson Law, an organization that recruits law students to become guardian ad litem volunteers, mentors, and leaders to advocate on behalf of children facing abuse and neglect. Additionally, she served as an Equal Justice Works Fellow at the Children’s Law Center from 2018 to 2020.In our wide-ranging discussion, Taylor talks with us about the range of issues youth in foster care must contend with, how FosterPower earns trust from its users, where her passion for youth in foster care comes from, and her experience as an Equal Justice Works fellow.
This week, we welcome Nelson Quintero, the co-founder and chief operating officer of ECFX, a company that fills in the gaps in legal workflows with automated solutions. Nelson is an attorney with over 20 years of experience in the field of intellectual property, focusing on patent and trademark prosecution for both US and foreign clients. ECFX's main solution is an automated process for managing the flow of electronic court filings. He thought of the idea for ECFX with his friend Dan O'Day, a lawyer and programmer. Nelson and Dan developed the software as a way to extract documents and gather information from a large volume of emails associated with electronic course filings, hoping to boost efficiency and cost savings. Since its launch, ECFX has helped numerous law firms of all sizes meet their automation needs.In our conversation, Nelson spoke about his experience launching ECFX during the pandemic, why IP law had suited his personality, dealing with change management, and his advice for lawyers pursuing entrepreneurship.
This week, we are replaying the latest installment in our virtual roundtable series, titled “Understanding the Legal and Commercial Challenges of Disinformation and Deepfakes.” For those who may not be familiar, a deepfake is a type of synthetic media where images, videos, or audio may seem real, but have been manipulated or generated with artificial intelligence. While some synthetic or manipulated media have legitimate applications, the ability of deepfakes to exploit and spread disinformation poses various commercial and legal threats, which organizations must be prepared to address. Our panel included Catherine Porter, Chief Business Officer of Prove; Hon. Paul W. Grimm (Ret.), professor of the practice of law and director of the Bolch Judicial Institute at Duke Law School; and Puya Partow-Navid, partner at Seyfarth.We discussed a variety of topics, including the biggest risks of deepfakes that organizations must tackle for consumers, the impact of deepfakes on courtroom and evidentiary rules, the legal frameworks in place to protect against deepfakes and disinformation, and technological solutions and best practices for businesses.
Today’s episode of Pioneers and Pathfinders takes a slightly different approach. We are joined by Tony Thai, a returning guest, who is the CEO and Chief Engineer of HyperDraft, a contract automation software platform for various enterprises. We’re also joined by Byong Kim, Senior Director of Technology Innovations at Seyfarth. He runs Seyfarth Labs, which is a tech R&D team that leads the way in applying emerging technologies to the legal profession. Earlier this year, the three of us led a highly curated roundtable at Seyfarth’s New York office for in-house counsel, innovation leaders, and Seyfarth partners, where we had an open conversation on best practices for the implementation of AI and automation. This was a confidential conversation, so we didn't record it. Today, we won’t be talking about specific people or comments made at the roundtable, but we thought we'd go over what we had learned from it and how we see the progression of AI and automation in the industry, as well as best practices.We discussed how generative AI is often treated like a "solution in search of a problem," how organizations are approaching implementation of the technology, potential security and confidentiality concerns with using generative AI, and advice for legal professionals starting to use this new technology.
Our guest this week is a leading thinker on the application of generative AI in the legal profession. Dr. Megan Ma is the associate director of Stanford’s Law, Science, and Technology Program, as well as the Stanford Center for Legal Informatics—better known as CodeX. She also teaches courses in computational law and insurance tech. Dr. Ma has a background in a variety of fields: She majored in political science and economics, has master's degrees in health law and economic law, and earned her PhD in law. Additionally, Dr. Ma is an advisor to the PearX for AI program, and serves as editor-in-chief for the Cambridge Forum on AI, Law, and Governance, as the managing editor of the MIT Computational Law Report, and as a research affiliate at Singapore Management University in their Centre for Computational Law.We had a fascinating conversation about Dr. Ma’s lifelong interest in linguistics, how "empathetic" large language models can be for users, how generative AI could change lawyer mentorship, and her thoughts on the future of technology in the profession.
This week, we're joined by Nicole Clark, founder and CEO of Trellis, a state trial court research and analytics platform. For several years, Nicole was an attorney in private practice, handling business litigation and labor and employment matters. The idea for Trellis came from her experience doing research for complicated summary judgement motions. Nicole worked with software developers on an early version of the tool, collecting state trial court data and creating an extensive database of tentative rulings issued by judges in Southern California. As Nicole's practice flourished from using the database, she decided to turn it into a scalable legal analytics platform that would help democratize access for state trial court data. Outside of her work at Trellis, Nicole shares everything she has learned over the years about legal analytics with other legal professionals by authoring articles for ABA Journal, New York Law Journal, Texas Lawyer, and Santa Barbara Lawyer. She is also regularly featured as a legal expert in Southern California Record, and has appeared as a guest on podcasts produced by Above the Law and Corporate Counsel Business Journal.In our discussion, Nicole spoke about her transition from practicing law to developing Trellis, her experience starting college at 16, how lawyer engagement with tech has changed in recent years, and her advice for those considering making a leap to business.
Today's guest is Ted Theodoropoulos, CEO of Infodash, a cloud-first legal intranet and extranet platform. Ted has over two decades of experience in the legal tech industry, having led the development and delivery of innovative solutions for law firms. Over the course of his career, he has worked as a database engineer at Microsoft, senior vice president of Bank of America, and president of Acrowire—a technology consulting firm. At Infodash, he and his team help law firms leverage their Microsoft 365 investment in order to stay connected with their employees, their clients, and their work in the new age of remote and hybrid work. This year, Ted was named ILTA's 2024 Innovative Leader of the Year.In our conversation, Ted discusses his experience at ILTACON 2024, what new legal professionals should understand early in their careers, how he has been using generative AI in his personal and professional life, and his vision for the future of Infodash.
Today's guest, Lourdes Fuentes, is the founder and CEO of Karta Legal, a legal operations and law firm management consulting firm dedicated to transforming law firms and legal departments through efficiency. Lourdes has over 30 years of experience in the legal field, focusing on insurance litigation, legal technology, and legal operations, among many other areas. As a practicing lawyer, she took an interest in eDiscovery and document digitization at a time when these processes were still very new. Having gained years of experience and knowledge, she shifted her focus toward improving the delivery of legal services for law firms and legal departments. In her work, Lourdes utilizes curated design thinking, Lean Six Sigma, and Agile project management tools and techniques tailored to the management of the business of law and legal processes.In our wide-ranging discussion, she talks about the origins of Karta Legal, the challenges of encouraging lawyers to embrace technology, how her thoughts on generative AI have changed over time, and her advice for those starting a legal tech business.
This week, we’re speaking with Dr. Kirsten Davis of Stetson University College of Law. Dr. Davis began her legal career practicing in the areas of litigation, employment, and taxation. After a few years, she decided to pursue education, becoming a professor at the Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law at Arizona State University, where she focused on legal writing. It was during this time that Dr. Davis started her PhD in Human Communication. Today, at Stetson University College of Law, Dr. Davis is a professor of law, Faculty Director of Online Legal Education Strategies, and Provost's Faculty Fellow for Generative Artificial Intelligence and Higher Education. Her research and scholarship focus on legal communication, law and rhetoric, professionalism, professional identity, and professional ethics, and she is currently working on issues at the intersection of generative AI, legal education, and legal practice. Additionally, she is a consultant, trainer, writer, and blogger on various topics in the legal profession.We had a lively conversation about her experience becoming a law professor, how she has adapted to generational changes among her law students, why we may have a "process renaissance" in legal education, and her thoughts on how generative AI will affect legal education in the near future.
We're delighted to welcome back Bridget Mary McCormack, the former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court. She is currently president and CEO of the American Arbitration Association-International Centre for Dispute Resolution (AAA-ICDR), a nonprofit that provides arbitration and mediation services to individuals and organizations that wish to resolve conflicts out of court. Former Chief Justice McCormack joined the association just as generative AI was exploding onto the scene. Knowing that the technology would have a deep impact on the legal profession, she worked quickly with AAA-ICDR leadership, as well as futurists and technologists, to determine an innovation strategy for the organization. Additionally, former Chief Justice McCormack is a strategic advisor to the Future of the Profession Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School. She also co-hosts the podcast 2030 Vision: AI and the Future of Law with Jen Leonard, a previous guest on Pioneers and Pathfinders.Today, former Chief Justice McCormack discusses why she joined the AAA-ICDR, change management at a venerable organization in response to generative AI, the future of online dispute resolution, and rethinking lawyer formation.
We’re joined today by Dan Rabinowitz, founder and CEO of Pre/Dicta, which offers litigators AI tools that can forecast litigation timelines and provide accurate predictions for outcomes of motions. Dan has had many different roles in his legal journey. He started as a litigator at Sidley Austin LLP, and later became a trial attorney at the US Department of Justice. He then served as general counsel at a data science company, and went on to be associate general counsel, chief privacy officer, and the director of fraud analytics for WellPoint Military Care. With all of these experiences, Dan took a deep interest in the innovation and technology side of legal work. Wanting to focus on data analytics in particular, he ultimately decided to leave practice and develop Pre/Dicta.In today's discussion, Dan speaks about the behavioral science factors that can help forecast legal outcomes, the information Pre/Dicta provides lawyers in a given case, how he became involved with behavioral analytics, and the need to think outside the box in the legal world.
In this week’s episode, we're speaking with a legal tech entrepreneur who operates at the intersection of generative AI and access to justice. Today's guest, Kara Peterson, is co-founder of descrybe.ai, a free legal research tool leveraging AI to make complex legal information more accessible to professionals and laypeople alike. For several years, Kara worked in marketing and communications at various organizations, including Suffolk University Law School. She continued this work in the public health space for a decade, serving as Executive Director of Communications at Boston University School of Public Health and Chief Communications Officer at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. In these roles, she became further interested in access to justice. She would go on to create descrybe.ai with tech software engineer Richard DiBona, as a way to help people overcome the cost barriers to legal information they may need. This year, descrybe.ai is a finalist at the American Legal Tech Awards for both the AI category and the Startup category.In our conversation, Kara talks about what makes descrybe.ai unique and the problems it aims to address, how her hometown influenced her access to justice work, and her advice for legal professionals considering using generative AI.
This week, we're joined by Brian Corbin, Vice President of Legal Solutions and Operational Excellence at QuisLex, an alternative legal services provider that specializes in managed document review, contract management, compliance services, legal spend management, and legal operations consulting. Brian started his career at the moment in time when the federal rules of civil procedure changed, revolutionizing the eDiscovery process. As senior staff attorney at Covington & Burling LLP, Brian managed teams of document review attorneys on high-profile intellectual property litigation and federal regulatory matters for Fortune 500 clients. Later, he observed the rise of legal offshoring, so he decided to work for Clutch Group in Bengaluru as associate vice president of legal services. Brian then went to JPMorgan Chase, where he worked various roles involving eDiscovery, ultimately becoming executive director and assistant general counsel at the company. Today, at QuisLex, he is part of a team of attorneys, process experts, legal technologists, statisticians, and linguists working closely with clients to reduce cost, mitigate risk, and maximize efficiency.In our conversation, Brian talks about the "long and winding road" to his job at QuisLex, what it was like to work in different countries, how he addresses the fear around legal tech and change management, and what we can learn from the eDiscovery revolution as it applies to generative AI.
As the summer comes to an end, many in the legal world will soon return to academic settings as students or as educators. So, this week, we wanted to look back on a wonderful discussion we had with Andrew Perlman, Dean at Suffolk University Law School. In this episode, Dean Perlman spoke about his various roles as a leader in the legal industry, and we discussed the impact of recent technological advancements on legal training as well as the bar exam. Thank you for listening. We will return next week with a new episode.Our guest this week is a leading voice on the future of legal education and law practice. Andrew Perlman is Dean at Suffolk University Law School, and has been a faculty member there since 2001. Before entering academia, Dean Perlman was a litigator with a lifelong fascination with innovation and technology. He has served several important functions in the American Bar Association, and was recently appointed to serve on the Advisory Council of the ABA Task Force on the Law and Artificial Intelligence. Dean Perlman has also been involved in various national and local reform efforts—from police practices and access to justice, to developing alternate paths to law school and bar admission. He has served as a member of the Content Scope Committee of the National Conference of Bar Examiners, which helped to identify content for the next generation of the bar exam. Additionally, he has written numerous articles on professional responsibility and legal innovation, and he has served as a presenter or panelist at more than 100 academic, judicial, and other professional programs.Today, Dean Perlman talks about how his passion for innovation started with a Commodore 64, the history and culture of Suffolk, helping law students embrace generative AI, and updating the bar exam.
Today we’re replaying our episode with Ilona Logvinova. When we spoke with Ilona, she was managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. Since then, she has become director of Practice Innovation at Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP. In our discussion, Ilona talked about her unique role at McKinsey, reimagining legal practice, and how collaboration can advance innovation efforts at legal organizations. Thank you for listening. We will return with brand new episodes on September 4th.This week’s guest is reimagining the way legal professionals work as we explore new frontiers in technology. We’re speaking with Ilona Logvinova of McKinsey & Company, a global management consulting firm. Ilona is managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. After working as a corporate lawyer for several years, and working in-house at Mastercard, she joined McKinsey as a technology lawyer, a position which ultimately evolved into her current dual role. As managing counsel, she serves a more traditional in-house legal role for McKinsey’s technology legal team. As Head of Innovation, she architects the innovation transformation journey for McKinsey’s legal department—a function that is still relatively new in the legal world. Additionally, Ilona is a frequent author, and writes about innovation and tech on McKinsey's legal blog and other forums.In our conversation, Ilona discusses her fascinating work at McKinsey, the nuances of adopting legal tech, training generative AI tools, and the importance of human centricity in legal innovation.
Last week, our virtual roundtable series returned with a fourth installment focusing on the company boardroom and how boards of directors can successfully navigate the high-stakes leadership decisions that are emerging with the rise of generative AI. Our panelists—Marissa Geist, Chief Executive Officer at Cielo Talent; Camille Olson, Partner at Seyfarth; and Paul Washington, President and CEO of the Society for Corporate Governance—considered the issues from both the perspective of board members, as well as key management stakeholders executing on company strategies.The panel covered a variety of topics: how the implementation of generative AI may affect the role of the board, the particular talent and training considerations that board members should have in mind as they prioritize tech adoption, and how boards should work with management in order to meet their objectives.Thank you to the panelists and everyone who joined us last week, and thank you to everyone listening today. We are off for the next two weeks, but we will return on September 4th with brand new episodes.
Today we welcome back to the podcast Jacqueline Schafer, founder and CEO of Clearbrief. Jacqueline is an entrepreneur who previously worked as a Paul Weiss litigator, in-house counsel, and assistant attorney general. Clearbrief is a legal tech company with the goal of transforming the legal writing process. Last year, the company launched its own set of generative AI tools, including Instant Hyperlinked Timeline and Verified Facts Section, which helps litigators overcome the problem of hallucinations when using generative AI.In our conversation, Jacqueline discusses the impact of generative AI on the legal profession, Clearbrief's new AI tool, what she has learned from working in business, and the emerging technology she finds most interesting.
This week, we welcome Kimberly Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, an organization which helps lawyers seeking new careers in other fields. Neil started as a law firm associate, but soon left practice to pursue business. Prior to developing ex judicata, he worked in legal recruiting for 15 years, placing partners and associates in law firms. It was during this time that Neil discovered that many lawyers had wished to leave the profession altogether and seek opportunities in other industries. Kimberly is a legal industry veteran who has focused on the legal events space, legal tech education, and project management throughout her career. Neil and Kimberly first worked together at Executive Enterprises, a conference event and publishing company. They went on to co-found Fulcrum Information Services, a venture-backed provider of management education to law firms, law departments, and C-level executives. They grew the company for five years before selling the business to a public company. Years later, Neil and Kimberly reconnected to start ex judicata, where Kimberly serves as Chief Connectivity Officer and Neil serves as CEO.In today's discussion, they talk about how they help lawyers transition out of practice, what inspired them to start their latest venture, their respective journeys in the legal world, and their advice for making legal careers more desirable.
Today we're joined by a true pioneer in the legal profession: Sanjay Kamlani, founder and CEO of Maker5, a law firm innovation advisory and software development services business that also builds new legal industry startups through its venture studio. Sanjay started his career as an international tax lawyer at PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC), focusing on US-India business advisory work. Wanting to do business in India himself, he left PwC to co-found OfficeTiger, a company that pioneered the offshore professional support services industry in India. At OfficeTiger, Sanjay served as CFO, general counsel, and member of the board. He would later co-found Pangea3, one of the first major businesses in the legal process outsourcing industry. At Maker5, Sanjay helps law firms and legal departments transform their processes, workflows, and outcomes. He is also involved with Duke Capital Partners, Duke University's early-stage venture investment fund.In our discussion, Sanjay talks about why he felt confident venturing into business, the challenges he had faced in the outsourcing industry, his advice for legal tech entrepreneurs, and what it's like to manage a multicultural organization.
Keith Maziarek joins us on the podcast today. Keith is Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management at Katten Muchin Rosenman. Keith entered the legal world as a Marketing and Communications Manager at the ABA, where he learned about working with lawyers, as well as the business side of the industry. He later went on to serve as a business development manager at DLA Piper. There, Keith began exploring pricing and profitability matters, eventually becoming the firm's first head of strategic pricing. He continued in this field at Perkins Coie, where he worked as Senior Director of Client Value. Today, in his wide-ranging role at Katten, he collaborates with others to design, build, and implement the firm’s robust and scalable strategic pricing, profitability, process improvement, legal project management, and client value capability. Additionally, Keith is a board member of the Legal Value Network, where he helps further the evolution of the business of law in the commercial legal services sector. He has also authored several published articles on the topics of pricing, client value, and collaboration, and he speaks regularly at industry conferences.In today's discussion, Keith talks about what led him to work in pricing, how discussions about pricing have evolved in the legal profession, the key factor about generative AI tools that people often overlook, and how he became involved with the Legal Value Network.
In honor of Independence Day, we're revisiting our discussion with Cindy Cohn, executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). For many years, Cindy has been a champion for civil liberties in the digital space. In our conversation, she spoke about the EFF's history and mission, as well as the human rights issues she focuses on today. We hope you enjoy the holiday this week. We will return next week with a new episode.As technology has progressed, we have also seen emerging concerns for freedom of speech and privacy. Our guest today has spent the past 30 years defending individual liberties in the digital space. Cindy Cohn is the executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the leading nonprofit organization ensuring that technology supports freedom, justice, and innovation for all people. She started her career as a civil litigator in private practice, where she handled various cases related to technology. Then, in 1993, the EFF offered her the opportunity to serve as outside lead attorney in the case Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice, the successful First Amendment challenge to the US export restrictions on cryptography. Today, she handles legal matters involving NSA spying, platform censorship, and surveillance technologies, among other issues. Cindy has received numerous awards and honors for her work. In 2020, she was included in The Nonprofit Times Power and Influence Top 50 list, honoring movers and shakers.In today’s discussion, Cindy talks about the fascinating origins of the EFF, how she became involved in human rights work, how her practice has evolved over the years, and her strategies for protecting people's privacy.
Today’s episode is part two of our conversation with Steve Harmon, chief operating officer and general counsel at Elevate. Last week, Steve spoke with us about why he decided to become a lawyer, his insights on the business of law, working in Cisco’s legal department, and how he co-founded CLOC.In the second half of our discussion, we talk to Steve about encouraging technology adoption, what legal professionals can learn from past technology evolutions, how Elevate balances competing factors when using tech, and his recommendations for legal professionals today.
In this week’s episode, we speak with Steve Harmon, chief operating officer and general counsel at Elevate, a company that provides software and services for the intersection of business and law. Like many of our guests, Steve has had an unconventional—but truly fascinating—career path. While attending undergrad at BYU, he and some of his classmates founded a company, prompting him to earn a business degree and attend law school so that he could serve as the patent lawyer on the team. He would go on to leverage his combined legal and business knowledge throughout his career. Before joining Elevate, he worked at Cisco Systems for almost 20 years in various functions, where he and his team built one of the most innovative legal departments in the world. Steve was also a co-founder and board member of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC). Although he is no longer on the board, he remains committed to its mission to promote collaboration among legal ops professionals.We had so much to discuss with Steve that we split the conversation into two parts. In the first half of our chat, he talks about how he learned to be an in-house lawyer, the question every lawyer should ask their clients, his proudest accomplishment at Cisco, and his initial skepticism of having a legal ops role.We will be taking a break next week, but we will return on June 26 for part two of the conversation, where we explore Steve’s work at Elevate, the impact of legal technology, and other fascinating topics.
Today we're joined by Carolyn Elefant, a change-maker in energy and environmental justice law specifically, as well as the legal profession generally. Carolyn is an attorney and an author, blogger, and legal innovation influencer at MyShingle.com. She started as a lawyer at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC). After working in a law firm for a few years, she took the leap into starting her own practice. In her energy and environmental justice work, Carolyn helps innovative alternative energy companies navigate the FERC, state commissions, and energy markets. She also defends landowners and communities from pipeline infrastructure by helping them challenge adverse rulings and change laws. Nearly two decades ago, Carolyn co-founded the Ocean Renewable Energy Coalition, which has since merged with the National Hydropower Association. This organization has helped draft and implement the laws that govern offshore wind and wave energy today, and has lobbied for hundreds of millions of dollars in research and development for the industry. In addition, Carolyn helps other lawyers venture into solo practice—sharing her thoughts and experiences through her award-winning blog, MyShingle.com, and her book, Solo by Choice.In our conversation, Carolyn discusses the surprising reason she chose to attend law school, starting a solo practice, how she approaches legal technology, and her work in energy and environmental justice law.
Our guest today is Stephen Allen, a leading market expert and innovator in the legal world. Among his many roles, Stephen is EMEA Lead at Lotis Blue Consulting, which utilizes data and behavioral science to help companies with their growth and transformation. Stephen is also Chief Scout at Trampelpfad, which delivers innovative, established paths to success for law firms and legal departments. He has worked in legal services for over 25 years, having started as a lawyer in both private practice and in-house communities. He has played significant innovation roles at various organizations where he has worked. At Hogan Lovells, Stephen built an alternative delivery and innovation capability, and launched complementary businesses in financial services consulting and technology. He later joined Elevate, where he worked with customers to define their roles, and he designed market-leading solutions to business-of-law problems faced by law departments and law firms.In our conversation, Stephen discusses Trampelpfad—the business and the English translation of the word, why he likes working with lawyers, the lessons he learned from the telecom industry, and the commonalities and differences between the organizations where he has worked.
Today we welcome a true pioneer and one of the first legal operations professionals in the industry, Connie Brenton. Connie is CEO and founder of LegalOps.com—a community bringing together the legal ecosystem to drive competitive advantage. She has over 20 years of expertise and innovation experience in the industry, building community, and driving leadership. Connie started her legal operations career at the enterprise software company Sun Microsystems. She then launched the legal operations functions at the companies Oracle and NetApp. Connie also founded CLOC (Corporate Legal Operations Consortium) and was CEO of the organization. CLOC is one of the organizations under Connie’s leadership that defined legal operations as we now know it. Additionally, she co-authored the book Running Legal Like a Business with Susan Lambreth, a previous guest on the podcast. As a result of her work, Connie has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from American Lawyer Media.In today's discussion, Connie talks about her decision to start LegalOps.com, what it means to run legal "like a business," the qualities necessary to be part of a legal ops team, and community-building in a hybrid world.
Our guest today is a prolific connector and skilled executive coach in the legal industry. David Cowen is the founder and president of The Cowen Group and founder of the Summit on Legal Innovation and Disruption (SOLID). David started in staffing and recruiting, where he learned more about the art of making connections. Years later, as the demand for litigation support and eDiscovery talent grew, David pivoted toward the legal industry as a subject matter expert in building office legal support and technology teams. He ultimately founded The Cowen Group, which became the nation's leading search firm in staffing and recruiting senior legal leaders and next generation legal technologists. Over time, the firm has transitioned to the events space, hosting legal events on numerous topics such as legal innovation, legal operations, and eDiscovery. Among these many events is SOLID, a global series which focuses on innovation and the practice of law. These working groups bring together the most innovative thinkers and practitioners to take deep dives together into the hottest issues in the industry (As a disclaimer, Seyfarth is a supporter and host of many of the SOLID conferences.). Additionally, David writes extensively on managing and developing careers, “the war for talent,” and the motivations behind investments in people, process, and technology.In today's conversation, David discusses why he founded SOLID, how he ended up in the legal industry, how he has kept up with client demands, and the importance of asking people for favors.
Today we're joined by Kris Niedringhaus of Georgia State University College of Law. Kris has a few roles at the law school: associate dean for Library, Information Services, Legal Tech & Innovation; faculty director of the Legal Analytics & Innovation Initiative; and clinical professor of law. For over two decades, she has been a law librarian and law professor at universities throughout the US. She has also been with the Center for Computer Assisted Legal Instruction (CALI) for more than 20 years in various roles, currently serving as an author, board member, and chair of the Legal Research Community Authoring Project advisory board. She is an executive committee member of the Association of American Law Schools' Section on Technology, Law, and Legal Education. Additionally, Kris has written and presented on topics such as legal research, teaching methods, and law library management.In our discussion, Kris talks about the Legal Analytics & Innovation Initiative, how law students should approach legal technology, finding her place in the legal world, and why she enjoys student hackathons.
This week, we welcome Leah Molatseli, founder of Contract Alchemists, a company with the goal of modernizing legal teams through legal operations, agile methodologies, and technology. Leah has over 10 years of experience in the legal field, and has a certificate in Entrepreneurship and Innovation from the University of Notre Dame. After practicing for a few years, she co-founded Lenoma Legal, a virtual legal tech startup aimed at helping small businesses in South Africa. Prior to starting Contract Alchemists, Leah was head of business development at Legal Interact, a legal tech company. She is also a speaker, a published author, and a council member at the University of the Free State. Additionally, she recently joined LexisNexis South Africa as an author and became a Voice and Brand Council Member at the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC).In today's conversation, Leah discusses the legal community in South Africa, how she approaches her writing, the TV shows that inspired her to become an attorney, and how being purpose-driven shapes her decision-making.
Today’s guest is helping people understand technology concepts and jargon so that they can succeed in the digital age. Sophia Matveeva is the founder and CEO of Tech for Non-Techies, an education and executive coaching company that was inspired by her previous experience starting a tech company and struggling to communicate with developers. Through this education platform, business leaders—including legal professionals—can learn more about technology, entrepreneurship, and career success, without having to learn how to code. In addition to her work at Tech for Non-Techies, Sophia is a startup mentor at the Chicago Booth Polsky Center of Entrepreneurship, and has advised leading accelerators, including Chicago Booth’s New Venture Challenge and the Techstars x Blackstone Launchpad. She also sits on the advisory board to Riviter, which uses AI to predict consumer trends for the world’s biggest brands. Sophia has contributed to the Harvard Business Review, Financial Times, The Guardian, and Forbes, writing on entrepreneurship and technology, and she hosts the Tech for Non-Techies podcast. She has also guest lectured at the University of Chicago, London Business School, and Oxford University.In our wide-ranging discussion, Sophia talks about the origins and objectives of Tech for Non-Techies, perfectionism versus flexibility in the legal world, the readership of her tech blog, and allowing time for curiosity.
Today we welcome Sue Bunnell, Assistant General Counsel & Executive Director at Wells Fargo, and a career catalyst. Sue has been with Wells Fargo for over two decades, serving many different functions. In her current role, she partners with senior business, risk, and compliance leaders. She also oversees the Catalyst Program, which helps high-potential professionals learn and examine their goals in order to achieve the next steps in their careers. Sue is also a frequent speaker who facilitates workshops for a wide range of groups, and she partners one-on-one with professionals, focusing on strong self-advocacy skills. Additionally, Sue is board co-chair at Leading Women in Technology, an organization that helps professional women develop the skills, experience, and approaches necessary to map their own paths to success and achieve their goals. She is also a board member at Professional BusinessWomen of California.In our conversation, Sue talks about the importance of self-advocacy, the qualities of an ideal mentor, the Catalyst Program, and her work in Leading Women in Technology.
Today’s guests, Lisa Colpoys and Mark Chandler, help lead the Filing Fairness Project at the Deborah L. Rhode Center on the Legal Profession at Stanford Law School. This project is an ambitious, multijurisdictional effort to modernize court filing systems, widen access to courts, and improve the administration of justice by leveraging readily available technology already used in other sectors. Mark was chief legal officer at Cisco for 20 years, leading it to become one of the most innovative legal departments in the world. After leaving the company, he teamed initially with Professor David Freeman Engstrom and Stanford Legal Design Lab leader Margaret Darin Hagan to tackle the gap between the sophisticated tools available in the corporate world and those used by legal aid organizations and self-represented litigants as they navigate the court system. Lisa, who had already been an experienced leader in legal aid for over two decades, joined the leadership team last spring. Lisa previously led Illinois Legal Aid Online, and also worked at the Administrative Office of the Illinois Courts and as a consultant to the Michigan Supreme Court Justice For All Project.Today, Lisa and Mark discuss what led them to Stanford, the goals of the Filing Fairness Project, the biggest challenge the project has faced so far, and the need for additional court funding.
Our guest today is Stephen Embry, a legal tech guru and longtime lawyer. Among Stephen’s many endeavors is TechLaw Crossroads, a blog devoted to the practical impact of technology and innovation on law practice. He writes frequently on the clash of cultures between tech and innovation on the one hand, and the traditional, precedent-grounded legal profession on the other. Today, he is a national litigator and advisor—primarily in the mass tort, business and consumer class action, and privacy and data breach arenas. Additionally, Stephen is the past chair of the ABA’s Law Practice Division and the past chair of the Data Breach, Privacy, and Cyber Insurance Section of the Federation of Defense and Corporate Counsel (FDCC). Stephen has also co-authored the book Mass Tort Claims Resolution Facilities, as well as the 2020, 2017, and 2016 editions of the American Bar Association's Legal Technology Survey Reports.In our conversation, Stephen discusses why he started blogging, the disconnect between lawyers and legal tech vendors, pro se litigants using generative AI, and reconsidering pricing structures with the rise of generative AI.
This week, we're joined by Nicole Morris, professor of practice at Emory University School of Law, director of the Innovation and Legal Tech Initiative, and director of the TI:GER program. Nicole has had a fascinating, multifaceted career journey. After working as a chemical engineer for several years, she decided to go to law school. She then became a patent attorney at large and midsize law firms, and later worked in-house. As a professor of practice at Emory, Nicole's focus includes patent law, patent litigation, IP licensing, and strategy. She is director of the school's program Technological Innovation: Generating Economic Results (TI:GER). TI:GER is an innovative program that brings together graduate students in law, business, science, and engineering to work on ways to take innovative ideas from the lab to the marketplace.In our discussion, Nicole talks about her journey from chemical engineering to law, the various elements of TI:GER, and the importance of human skills in the legal profession.
With this episode, we mark the third anniversary of Pioneers and Pathfinders. Nothing could mark this milestone better than to welcome back a thought leader in the legal profession and legal education, Cat Moon, lecturer and Director of Innovation Design at Vanderbilt University Law School. Since Cat last joined us on the podcast, she has co-founded VAILL, the Vanderbilt AI + Law Lab, which she also co-directs. In this program, she collaborates with professionals across various disciplines to improve legal practice by exploring and experimenting at the intersection of generative AI, legal education, law practice, and access to justice.Today, Cat discusses the resilience of her law students, the challenges ahead for lawyer training, her fascinating work with VAILL, and developing competency in the use of generative AI.
Our guest today is Zack DeMeola, Senior Director of Strategic Initiatives at the Law School Admission Council (LSAC), a not-for-profit organization with the goal of advancing law and justice by promoting access, equity, and fairness in law school admission and supporting learning journeys from prelaw through practice. A former corporate litigation attorney, Zack left practice after several years to join the Institute for the Advancement of the American Legal System (IAALS). There, he led the Foundations for Practice project, the most comprehensive study to date of the skills, competencies, and characteristics new lawyers need, and the Unlocking Legal Regulation Project, where he directed a team of researchers and lawyers to promote a regulatory system that meets the demands of everyday people. From 2020-2023, Zack promoted innovation in the legal profession and in addressing the access to justice crisis as a member of the Governing Council of the ABA Center for Innovation.Today, at LSAC, Zack supports a range of initiatives, from overseeing research into trends affecting current and prospective law students and advocating for a better way to regulate legal education to working with cross-functional teams to design and implement specific programs, learning outcomes, and standards-based assessments in the organization’s educational programs. Zack is also committed to continuous improvement in legal education as a co-chair of the ABA Resources on Outcomes and Assessments Committee. Additionally, he co-founded Access to Justice Ventures with Natalie Anne Knowlton—a past guest on the podcast. In 2023 the ABA Journal named Zack a Legal Rebel for his groundbreaking work creating a holistic way for law students to find where they fit into the profession, including his work with Foundations for Practice.In our wide-ranging discussion, Zack talks about the mission of LSAC, reconsidering the way we educate and test new lawyers, professional identity formation, and how clerking at the Arkansas Supreme Court shaped his career.
This week, we're joined by Maya Markovich, Justice Tech Executive in Residence at Village Capital and co-founder and executive director at the Justice Technology Association. Maya started her career journey in change management consulting for tech, then became a practicing lawyer. Having a deep interest in the possibilities of technology in the legal profession, she went on to work in legal tech product management and product marketing. She later joined Nextlaw Labs and Nextlaw Ventures, founded by Dentons, as Chief Growth Officer. As justice tech executive in residence at Village Capital, Maya works with a broad investor coalition and startup founders to define, support, grow, and fund the justice tech sector. As executive director of the Justice Technology Association, she supports the change-makers who are developing meaningful tech solutions to the A2J crisis. In addition to her work at Village Capital and the Justice Technology Association, Maya is a startup advisor, as well as a consultant for Am Law 50 and midsize law firms, legal departments, alternative legal service providers, investors, and venture funds on tech and innovation.In today's discussion, Maya describes her passion for legal industry innovation and talks about switching from practice to legal tech product management and VC, the common challenges of tech startups, the Justice Technology Association mission, and her core change management principles for successful business transformation.
Today’s guest is reimagining the way legal professionals work as we explore new frontiers in technology. We’re speaking with Ilona Logvinova of McKinsey & Company, a global management consulting firm. Ilona is managing counsel for McKinsey Digital and Head of Innovation for McKinsey Legal. After working as a corporate lawyer for several years, and working in-house at Mastercard, she joined McKinsey as a technology lawyer, a position which ultimately evolved into her current dual role. As managing counsel, she serves a more traditional in-house legal role for McKinsey’s technology legal team. As Head of Innovation, she architects the innovation transformation journey for McKinsey’s legal department—a function that is still relatively new in the legal world. Additionally, Ilona is a frequent author, and writes about innovation and tech on McKinsey's legal blog and other forums.In our conversation, Ilona discusses her fascinating work at McKinsey, the nuances of adopting legal tech, training generative AI tools, and the importance of human centricity in legal innovation.
Our guest today is Sarah Glassmeyer, Director of Data Curation at LegalTechnology Hub. Sarah has worked in various roles as a problem-solver in the legal community. For several years, she was a law librarian at universities around the US. Since then, she has worked as Director of Content Development at the Center for Computer Assisted Legal Instruction (CALI), as a research fellow at Harvard’s Library Innovation Lab and the Berkman Center for Internet and Society, as project manager and legal counsel for the ABA Center for Innovation and Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services, and as a Legal Tech Curator at Reynen Court Inc. At the time we recorded this episode, Sarah was Senior Solutions Analyst at LegalTechnology Hub, but her role has recently changed to Director of Data Curation. In this position, she oversees the content in the LegalTechnology Hub directory. Additionally, Sarah has received numerous accolades and honors. She was part of the inaugural class of the Fastcase 50, was named an ABA Legal Rebel, and has earned a “le Hackie” award from the Legal Hackers organization.In our discussion, Sarah talks about making "lucky jumps" in her career, how being a law librarian has changed over time, her current work at LegalTechnology Hub, and what excites her the most in legal tech.
This week, we welcome Victor Li, Assistant Managing Editor at the ABA Journal. After working as the Assistant District Attorney at the Bronx County District Attorney’s Office, Victor decided to explore a new path—one in journalism. For several years, he was a reporter on various legal industry subjects at The American Lawyer and Law Technology News (now known as Legaltech News). He went on to join the ABA Journal as a legal affairs writer, and later took on his current position as Assistant Managing Editor, overseeing the “Business of Law” front-of-book department, which covers legal tech, law firms, marketing, wellness, law schools, and innovation, among many other topics. Additionally, Victor authored the book Nixon in New York: How Wall Street Helped Richard Nixon Win the White House, which was published in 2018.In today’s conversation, Victor discusses how he broke into journalism; writing about Nixon, wellness, and mental health in the legal profession; and the stories he will be focusing on in 2024.
Today’s guest is Ashley Carlisle, chief marketing officer and founding team member at HyperDraft, a legal automation platform that helps legal departments and corporations digitize legacy documentation processes with AI-powered document and workflow automation solutions. Ashley was a corporate attorney at Goodwin when she met HyperDraft founder Tony Thai—a prior guest on the podcast—and decided to join him and help build the startup. As CMO, she shares her passion for making the legal profession more enjoyable and sustainable with modern technology.In today’s conversation, Ashley talks about generative AI’s recent impact on legal innovation efforts, deciding to be a lawyer when she was in fifth grade, what she learned as a Big Law associate at Kirkland and Goodwin, and the challenges of legal marketing.
Our guest this week is a leading voice on the future of legal education and law practice. Andrew Perlman is Dean at Suffolk University Law School, and has been a professor there since 2007. Before entering academia, Dean Perlman was a litigator with a lifelong fascination with innovation and technology. He has served several important functions in the American Bar Association, and was recently appointed to serve on the Advisory Council of the ABA Task Force on the Law and Artificial Intelligence. Dean Perlman has also been involved in various national and local reform efforts—from police practices and access to justice, to developing alternate paths to law school and bar admission. He has served as a member of the Content Scope Committee of the National Conference of Bar Examiners, which helped to identify content for the next generation of the bar exam. Additionally, he has written numerous articles on professional responsibility and legal innovation, and he has served as a presenter or panelist at more than 100 academic, judicial, and other professional programs.Today, Dean Perlman talks about how his passion for innovation started with a Commodore 64, the history and culture of Suffolk, helping law students embrace generative AI, and updating the bar exam.
Today we are joined by Flo Nicolas, a self-described “nonboring lawyer.” Flo is co-founder and chief operating officer at DEI Directive, a technology company helping organizations shape the future of work through inclusive and innovative practices. Flo began her career as legal counsel at various law firms and companies. She then worked in the telecommunications industry for several years. Later, Flo had the opportunity to join How to Contract, a training and development resource for lawyers. There she served as Chief Growth and Community Officer and hosted Contract Tech Showcase, a video series aimed at educating people on legal tech. Flo went on to create two local TV shows, Get Tech Smart and Get Resource Smart, which she also directs, produces, and hosts. These programs shine a light on New Hampshire’s tech startup community and organizations that provide vital resources to residents in need. In 2023, Flo was named one of New Hampshire Business Review’s “Outstanding Women in Business” and won Blaze Group’s Best In Business Award for “Best in Tech & Web3.”In our discussion, Flo talks about what organizations should measure in their DEI initiatives, the ways that law firms can leverage technology to foster diversity, her passion for negotiation, and how she developed her social media skills.
This week, we speak with Anusia Gillespie, Chief Strategy Officer at SkillBurst Interactive, a company providing on-demand learning to Am Law 200 firms, global legal organizations, and public-sector agencies, among other clients. Anusia has both an MBA and JD from Boston College, and has worked in various functions throughout the legal ecosystem—law firm practice, academia at Harvard Law School Executive Education, law firm business as the first Head of Innovation at Eversheds Sutherland, and in-house service transformation at the law company UnitedLex. At SkillBurst Interactive, Anusia is responsible for the expansion of digital training and upskilling in order to help the global legal industry thrive as technology continues to evolve. Additionally, Anusia has received the Fastcase 50 Award for being a visionary and an influencer in the legal industry.Today, Anusia discusses making the decision to pursue business, the benefits of not having a defined job description, the common thread of her career, and how law firms should approach talent development.
Today we are joined by Mary O'Carroll, a true pioneer and pathfinder in the legal industry. Mary is Chief Community Officer at Ironclad, a leading contract lifecycle management program for innovative companies. She started her career in business development and consulting before joining Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP in a finance role. Her work soon transitioned into a legal operations role—a function that was practically nonexistent in law firms at the time. Mary was later hired by Google, where she built and managed the operations of the legal department as the Director of Operations, Technology, and Strategy. While at the company, she co-founded the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC), a global community dedicated to transforming the business and practice of law. Mary continues her mission to drive change in the legal industry. She is a frequent public speaker and media contributor, and she hosts the Ironclad podcast Pearls On, Gloves Off.In our wide-ranging discussion, Mary tells us about her unexpected entry into the legal field, the origin story of CLOC, how generative AI may change legal ops, and what excites her about joining Ironclad.
For our last episode of the year, we welcome Dr. Ron Dolin, chief innovation officer at ODR.com. Dr. Dolin has had a fascinating and dynamic professional journey. A math and physics major, he began his career at the high-energy physics lab CERN in Geneva. He went on to earn a PhD in computer science and became one of the first 100 employees at Google, where he worked for several years. Having a deep interest in morality and ethics, Dr. Dolin then decided to go to law school and pursue the legal path. He became a law professor and has taught legal tech courses at Stanford, Notre Dame, and Harvard. Today, Dr. Dolin works with ODR.com to understand how AI can help the dispute resolution field improve its quality of services. In addition, he is a private investor in legal tech startups.In our discussion, Dr. Dolin speaks about going from Google to law, his love for teaching, the importance of quality metrics as lawyers use generative AI, and his work at ODR.com.
This year, our virtual roundtable series has explored the implications of generative AI and natural language processing models in the legal industry. Our first roundtable covered the risks and benefits of generative AI, while the second addressed the AI technology landscape and implementation strategies. Now, in our third installment, our esteemed panel—Lorie Almon, Chair and Partner of Seyfarth Shaw LLP; Anusia Gillespie, Chief Strategy Officer at SkillBurst Interactive; Jennifer Leonard, Founder of Creative Lawyers and Adjunct Professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School; and Andrew Perlman, Dean and Professor of Law at Suffolk University Law School—focused on lawyer formation and attorney development in the age of artificial intelligence.Our panelists explored how law schools, law firms, and corporate legal departments can shape the lawyers of tomorrow. We discussed the importance of teaching empathy in law school, the impact of generative AI on task-based learning, training more experienced lawyers on new technology, as well as the incentives and training structures needed for all legal professionals in a different environment.
Our guest today is Damien Riehl, vice president and Solutions Champion at vLex, a platform using artificial intelligence solutions to streamline workflows and provide lawyers with greater access to knowledge and resources. Damien was a tech attorney for more than 10 years when he made the leap to Thomson Reuters as Senior Product Strategist, where he developed innovative legal technology involving artificial intelligence, machine learning, and natural language processing. Inspired by Ed Walters’ efforts to democratize the law, Damien later joined Fastcase, where he served various roles building out legal tools and systems. In his current position at vLex, Damien helps lead the design, development, and expansion of products. Additionally, Damien is part of the leadership team at the Standards Advancement for the Legal Industry (SALI) Alliance. He is also co-founder of All the Music LLC, a project that involved copyrighting 471 billion melodies and placing them in the public domain. In 2019, Damien delivered a TED Talk in which he describes this process and offers a new way to handle copyright infringement lawsuits in music.In today’s conversation, Damien discusses vLex's newest product—Vincent AI, his decision to leave practice and join Thomson Reuters, the genesis of All the Music, and the future of teaching legal research.
Today’s guest is Julie Saltman, co-founder and CEO at Standd, a company using AI to eliminate tedious grunt work from the due diligence process. Prior to launching Standd, Julie spent more than 15 years as an attorney at the US Department of Justice, the US Copyright Office, and in private practice. Additionally, she has written articles on technological innovation and the law, and was an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center where she taught legal writing. At Standd, she works with a highly experienced team of innovative technologists who are building tools that transform their clients’ businesses.In our conversation, Julie talks about how Standd helps lawyers save time in the due diligence process, the lessons she learned with the launch of the company, and how generative AI could impact the way we teach legal writing.
As technology has progressed, we have also seen emerging concerns for freedom of speech and privacy. Our guest today has spent the past 30 years defending individual liberties in the digital space. Cindy Cohn is the executive director at the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), the leading nonprofit organization ensuring that technology supports freedom, justice, and innovation for all people. She started her career as a civil litigator in private practice, where she handled various cases related to technology. Then, in 1993, the EFF offered her the opportunity to serve as outside lead attorney in the case Bernstein v. Dept. of Justice, the successful First Amendment challenge to the US export restrictions on cryptography. Today, she handles legal matters involving NSA spying, platform censorship, and surveillance technologies, among other issues. Cindy has received numerous awards and honors for her work. In 2020, she was included in The Nonprofit Times Power and Influence Top 50 list, honoring movers and shakers.In today’s discussion, Cindy talks about the fascinating origins of the EFF, how she became involved in human rights work, how her practice has evolved over the years, and her strategies for protecting people's privacy.
Today we speak with Tara Cheever, co-founder and Chief Products Officer at LIT SOFTWARE, a company that equips lawyers with the tools to modernize their practices and enhance their presentation skills in court. Tara has been a trial presentation consultant for more than 15 years. She is an expert in presentation and legal technology, and has worked on multiple high-profile matters both in the US and in Europe. At LIT SOFTWARE, she assists in the design, development, and marketing of the LIT SUITE. The LIT SUITE apps are used extensively by a broad range of legal professionals and organizations, including Am Law 100 firms, corporate counsel for Fortune 500 companies, and the US Department of Justice, as well as other government agencies. The LIT SUITE is also widely taught in law schools across the US.In our discussion, Tara talks about her work as a trial consultant, how LIT SOFTWARE helps with storytelling in the courtroom, her thoughts on the future of litigation technology, and why she loves working with lawyers.
Our guest today is Stephanie Wilkins, editor-in-chief at Legaltech News at ALM. Stephanie had been a civil litigator at big law firms in New York for a decade when she decided to pursue a different career path. Having enjoyed the writing aspect of her legal work, she decided to become a freelance writer. Stephanie soon found opportunities writing about legal tech with Above The Law, technology companies, and legal marketers. In 2022, she became editor-in-chief at Legaltech News, where she has written on various issues pertaining to technology in the legal industry. Additionally, Stephanie is a freelance photographer who has traveled the world.In today’s wide-ranging conversation, Stephanie talks about making the leap from private practice to freelance writing, the places she has visited, what she sees on the horizon for generative AI in legal, and her plans for the direction of Legaltech News.
Today’s guest is taking on the challenges of immigration law through innovative technology. Amélie Vavrovsky is the founder and CEO of Formally, a legal tech startup that uses accessible design to simplify and streamline immigration applications. The idea for the company was partly inspired by Amélie’s own immigration experience as an international student at Brown University. She started Formally as a hackathon project, geared toward helping refugees and asylum seekers immigrate into the US. While a grad student at Stanford, Amélie further developed Formally, and the company officially launched in November of 2021. In recognition of the important work she is doing at Formally, Amélie was included in the Forbes 30 Under 30 list earlier this year.In our conversation, Amélie discusses competing in hackathons, the importance of multidisciplinary collaboration, Formally's approach to making legal work easier, and her surprising reaction to being included in the 30 Under 30.
Many legal professionals have discussed complex topics in technology and innovation in simple terms, but few have done so quite as well as today’s guest, Daniel Yi, Senior Counsel for Special Projects and Innovation at the US Department of Justice. As a disclaimer, we’d like to mention that Daniel is joining us in his personal capacity and not as a representative of the DOJ.Before serving in his current role, Daniel started at the DOJ as a trial attorney and then as the director of the Fair Housing Testing Program. Today he leads the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division in its efforts to use the design process and entrepreneurial principles to test new solutions for sticky problems in legal practice and civil rights. Additionally, Daniel is an adjunct professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center, as well as a lecturer at Harvard Law School and the University of Maryland.Today Daniel talks about being an ultramarathoner, what has motivated him throughout his personal and professional life, and the importance of building trust in innovation efforts.
Today’s guest is an innovation strategist and self-described “generative AI enthusiast.” Among her many roles in the legal world, Terri Mottershead is the Executive Director of the Centre for Legal Innovation at the College of Law (CLI). After several years in private practice, she transitioned into professional development and lawyer training. Terri has led or taught on practical legal education initiatives in law schools in Asia, Australia, and the US. For more than a decade, she has been a consultant to legal professionals and organizations around the world, focusing on matters such as strategic and business planning, innovation, and change management. At the CLI, Terri supports leaders of legal businesses with identifying trends, developing strategies, and transforming their capabilities and practices to deliver legal services and products in new ways. Additionally, she is a blogger and serves on numerous boards and organizations in the legal industry.In our conversation, Terri discusses how the CLI brings people on the "journey of transformation," her thoughts on the future of law schools, what makes her enthusiastic about generative AI, and why she chose to pursue the innovation path.
Today’s guest is Daniel Lewis, CEO of LegalOn Technologies, a company that uses AI to help legal teams find and fix contract risks. While a student at Stanford Law School, Daniel discovered his interest in legal tech, and soon envisioned himself going into business. Upon graduating, he founded Ravel Law, with the goal of building a better case law research experience by making use of new technology and taking a more data-driven approach. The company was ultimately acquired by LexisNexis, and Daniel served as senior director of product management and later, VP and GM of Practical Guidance & Analytical. He then went on to his current role as CEO of LegalOn’s US business. Additionally, Daniel is an investor in startups across various sectors, including education, health, legal and privacy, and enterprise.In our discussion, Daniel talks about how he found the legal tech path, his current venture at LegalOn—and how the company is incorporating generative AI in its services, and what he values in the businesses he invests in.
Today’s episode is an encore presentation of our second installment of the Pioneers and Pathfinders Virtual Roundtable Series. Last week, we hosted a live discussion with panelists spanning legal technology investing, AI-powered software development, and legal insights and strategy consulting. Our guests—Jae Um, Founder and Executive Director at Six Parsecs; Tony Thai, Chief Executive Officer and Chief Engineer at HyperDraft, Inc.; Zach Posner, Co-Founder and Managing Director at The LegalTech Fund; and Byong Kim, Senior Director of Technology Innovations at Seyfarth—shared their insights on how legal organizations can understand and navigate the rapidly evolving landscape of legal AI providers and their transformative technologies.Our panelists discussed the current and anticipated advancements in generative AI, strategic approaches regarding the impact of this technology, and their thoughts on how legal organizations can implement this technology successfully. Thank you to everyone who attended last week’s session. And thank you to our listeners for joining us today.
Today we speak with Karl Chapman, chief executive at Kim Technologies. After studying law at the University of Birmingham in England, Karl decided to go in a different direction from the lawyer path, working in finance and later starting a recruitment and training consultancy. Karl went on to found AdviserPlus Business Solutions, a leading advisory outsourcing company in the UK. AdviserPlus then created Riverview Law, which focused on providing managed services to corporate legal departments. Karl was chief executive at Riverview Law, then strategic advisor, following its acquisition by Ernst & Young. Today, he serves as director at Kim Technologies, a leading no-code, configurable technology platform that helps organizations—legal and nonlegal—automate their workflows, case management, and documents.
In today’s conversation, Karl talks about his decision to go from law school to business, the early business challenges of Riverview Law, the wide scope of Kim Technologies' services, and the key factor for large language models of the future.
Our guest today is Amy Yeung, VP and Deputy General Counsel at Sallie Mae, and a well-known legal tech thought leader. As a paralegal at Williams & Connolly LLP, Amy learned the ins and outs of the profession and found inspiration in the lawyers she assisted. After working in the securities group at WilmerHale, she changed course and joined the gaming company ZeniMax Media as assistant general counsel. Amy would continue to serve various legal tech functions for the next several years before joining the financial services company Sallie Mae. Additionally, Amy is chair of the Law Department Management Network, the largest Network of the Association of Corporate Counsel, and she is a public speaker on topics such as data privacy, cultural change, and leadership. She has also been a mentor to many in the legal industry, and has received numerous accolades and honors, having recently been included in Corporate Counsel Business Journal’s inaugural “50 Women to Watch.”Today, Amy discusses her decision to take an in-house role at a gaming company, the considerations that have guided her throughout her career, and the need for informed dialogue as technology continues to advance.
With all the conversations on recent advancements in technology, particularly generative AI, we thought we’d revisit our interview with David Wang, chief innovation officer at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati. His career exemplifies the importance of tech innovation and change management in the legal profession. We hope you enjoy. We will return with a new episode next week.
The past few years have seen a rise in heads of innovation at Big Law firms. One of the leading voices in this space is David Wang, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati’s chief innovation officer. David is responsible for overseeing the firm's innovation strategy, the development and implementation of legal technology programs, and supporting and advising both internal and client teams on the legal and operational implications of emerging technologies and business models. He previously practiced corporate and securities law for more than 10 years, working with private and public companies on general corporate and transactional matters. Prior to becoming a lawyer, David was an entrepreneur himself. Under David’s leadership, Wilson has received multiple accolades for their innovative use of technology.
In this episode, we discuss how David transitioned from the practice of law to leading a cutting-edge innovation and technology team at a Big Law firm, how he manages his portfolio of responsibilities, his decision-making process for taking on new projects, and what excites him most in the legal tech market.
As we head into the dog days of summer, we thought we would replay one of our favorite episodes. Given that August is National Civility Month, it seemed appropriate to revisit our episode with Jayne Reardon, former executive director of the Illinois Supreme Court Commission on Professionalism. Jayne has since retired from this role, but she continues to speak on professionalism topics such as civility, diversity, and leadership. We hope you enjoy the conversation. We will return with new episodes after Labor Day.
In this episode, we are joined by Jayne Reardon of the Illinois Supreme Court Commission on Professionalism, which promotes a more civil, professional, and inclusive legal culture in the state. In her nearly 16 years at the commission, Jayne has overseen a growing roster of initiatives rooted in civility, including programs on ethics, diversity, well-being, and the future of law. These programs are united by her belief that the legal profession can and should do better in meeting the legal needs of consumers by unlocking the underutilized potential of attorneys.
Listen in to our conversation to learn: - How Jayne’s approach to the issues facing the profession are shaped by her prior experience as a successful trial lawyer. - What she sees as the barriers to civility in the profession. - How a focus on civility can increase access to justice.
Now more than ever, conversations around legal technology and innovation can be incredibly overwhelming—especially for those who are worried about the implications of generative AI. Our guest today helps facilitate these important discussions, with the goal of making new technology less intimidating for lawyers. Cat Casey is chief growth officer at Reveal-Brainspace, a cloud-based provider of ediscovery software, which helps legal professionals solve complex discovery problems. Prior to joining the company, she served as a practitioner for multiple legal tech firms, ran a global tech practice for a top 10 law firm, and was a national subject matter expert on ediscovery, cyber, and legal tech at KPMG and PwC. While serving these many roles, Cat developed her own brand as “The Technocat,” speaking and writing on AI and other subjects in tech across various platforms. Today, at Reveal-Brainspace, she leads marketing and direction for the company’s legal tech solutions, and frequently guest lectures on ediscovery, emerging data, and all things legal AI.
In our wide-ranging discussion, Cat talks about being a "recovering introvert," how ChatGPT will change how we conduct research, her fascinating work at Reveal-Brainspace, and her thoughts on the future of legal tech.
Today we speak with Shana Simmons, chief legal officer at Everlaw, an advanced eDiscovery platform helping legal organizations solve the challenges of discovery and investigations more efficiently. Shana began her professional journey as a middle school and high school teacher before pursuing her lifelong dream of becoming a lawyer. After working in a corporate practice at an international law firm, Shana took an in-house role with Google as a contracts manager, where she focused on enhancing the company’s legal operations. While working at Google, she was a fellow at the Leadership Council on Legal Diversity. As chief legal officer at Everlaw, Shana leads a team responsible for the company’s legal, commercial, privacy, regulatory, and governance, risk, and compliance matters.
In our discussion, Shana talks about what she learned as a teacher, the importance of legal ops, finding a community at the LCLD, and her exciting work at Everlaw.
As we often discuss on the podcast, many lawyers resist adopting new technology or innovative practices due to a fear of the unknown. Today’s guest, however, embraces change management and is always looking to enhance the quality of legal services. Wendy Butler Curtis is the chief innovation officer and chair of the eDiscovery & Information Governance group at Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP. Wendy started her career as a mass torts litigator, but later focused on eDiscovery and operationalizing innovation, where she learned more about leveraging data and managing the litigation process. In her current role as CIO at Orrick, she leads a team of lawyers, technologists, project managers, and business professionals who all work together to develop creative, client-focused solutions through novel products, streamlined processes, and technology. Additionally, Wendy continues practicing in the eDiscovery space, working with Fortune 100 companies and major financial institutions to create and deploy eDiscovery and records management programs. In 2018, she was named "Most Innovative Lawyer of the Year" by the Financial Times.
Today, Wendy talks about being “exceptionally comfortable” with change, the creative skills of lawyers, practicing while being a CIO, and the role of her innovation team in Orrick’s talent development.
Today’s guest is a true expert in legal operations. Kiran Mallavarapu is the executive vice president and senior manager of Legal Strategic Services at Liberty Mutual Insurance. A mechanical engineer by training, Kiran worked at General Motors for several years before joining Liberty Mutual as a senior business consultant. He then moved to a legal ops role, where he was able to apply his creative and problem-solving skills while also utilizing data and technology. Today, Kiran leads a team of over 150 people focused on managing outside counsel relationships, legal analytics, and predictive modeling. The department provides systems and technology solutions to the company’s legal department—improving legal processes and driving innovation as well. It is one of the most well-known and well-regarded legal ops functions in the country.
In today’s conversation, Kiran discusses how a toy car inspired his interest in problem-solving, the innovative culture at Liberty Mutual, what he's learned from working with lawyers, and storytelling through data.
Today’s guest is Mary Juetten, founder and CEO of Traklight, a company that provides businesses, entrepreneurs, and inventors with automation software tools and resources to help them identify business risks and legal needs. Mary’s professional journey began in finance, where she learned the basics of examining systems and processes. While working as a CFO, she oversaw her company's merger and learned more about contracts, inspiring her to pursue law. During law school, she came up with the idea for Traklight and decided to return to the business world after earning her JD. Additionally, Mary is an advisory board member at Integra Ledger, a digital trust technology infrastructure based on enterprise blockchain technology. She is also an advisory board member of RightsLedger, a universal ledger focused on digital ownership management tracking, rights management, and global monetization using blockchain.
In our conversation, Mary discusses attending law school with a business background, making the leap to entrepreneurship, and the usefulness of blockchain.
Our guest today is Michael D.J. Eisenberg, an attorney who shares his deep knowledge of legal technology through his blog and podcast, The Tech Savvy Lawyer. A tech wiz with a master’s degree in civil engineering, Michael decided to pursue law school as a way to broaden his skill set. After working at the US Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals and at the Workers’ Compensation section of the Ohio Attorney General's Office, Michael decided to start his own practice, where he has focused on advocating for veterans, military members, and federal employees for nearly two decades. Throughout his legal career, he has used technology to make his work more efficient, offering tips to fellow attorneys along the way. In 2019, Michael started the blog The Tech Savvy Lawyer, aimed to assist legal professionals with their technology skills on a broader scale. Since launching the blog, he has also recorded a number of podcast episodes under The Tech Savvy Lawyer brand.
Today, Michael talks about how his grandfather influenced his career path, his decision to become a solo practitioner, using technology to save time, and his life as a podcaster.
This week, as we celebrate Independence Day, we thought we'd revisit our conversation with Bridget Mary McCormack, former Chief Justice of the Michigan Supreme Court. Since we recorded this episode, Chief Justice McCormack has retired and gone on to be president and CEO of the American Arbitration Association's International Centre for Dispute Resolution, as well as strategic advisor to Penn Carey Law's Future of the Profession Initiative. In our discussion, Chief Justice McCormack talks about her efforts to ensure equal access to justice for all, the importance of public confidence in our court system, and collaborating with other branches of the Michigan state government on civil justice reform. This conversation highlights the incredible work of our country's public servants in solving today's A2J challenges. We hope you enjoy.
In this episode, we have the distinct honor of being joined by Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack. Her passion for access to justice has been a constant throughout her career in public service. Immediately out of law school in New York, she joined the Legal Aid Society and the Office of the Appellate Defender. As a professor at the University of Michigan Law School, she launched a number of clinics devoted to domestic violence, pediatric health, mediation, low income taxpayers, human trafficking, and juvenile justice. The Michigan Innocence Clinic, which she founded—and in which students represent wrongfully convicted Michiganders—has exonerated more than 22 people so far, and has shined a light on the important justice issues underlying wrongful conviction. She joined the Michigan Supreme Court in January 2013, and became chief justice in January 2019. Since joining the court, Chief Justice McCormack continues to teach at the law school and continues to speak out on important issues around the access to justice problem in our society.
Listen in to today's discussion to hear her thoughts on the access to justice challenge and how we can bridge the gap, and why judges should be agents for justice system reform.
Today's episode will be an encore presentation of our inaugural session for the Pioneers and Pathfinders Virtual Roundtable Series. Last Wednesday, host Steve Poor had a live and lively discussion with four legal industry experts and thought leaders on the topic “Navigating Risks, Benefits, and Ethical Considerations in the Age of AI,” which focused on generative AI and the implications for the legal industry. These thought leaders—Kiran Mallavarapu, Executive Vice President and Senior Manager of Legal Strategic Services at Liberty Mutual Insurance; D. Joseph Piech, Senior Loss Prevention Counsel at ALAS; Lori Roeser, Partner and General Counsel at Seyfarth Shaw LLP; and Travis Rogers, Director and Senior Managing Counsel of Innovation Law at Allstate—all offered incredible insights and perspective on this interesting and timely topic.
Our panelists shared their knowledge, experience, and invaluable insights, as we discussed the risks and ethical implications associated with determining policies, weighing the use of tools and how the rules extend across your organization, and much more. A special thank you to everyone who attended last week. And thank you to our listeners for joining us today.
Today we are joined by Tom Martin, founder and CEO of LawDroid, a company using artificial intelligence and automation techniques to help lawyers be more productive. Inspired by his early experiences as a legal assistant, Tom entered the legal profession with a strong commitment to efficiency and technology. While working as a lawyer at a top talent agency, he learned the basics of building a business, ultimately leading him to pursue entrepreneurship. He would go on to start Foresight Legal Group, PC, a law firm that was an early adopter of document automation, which made legal services more affordable for clients. Tom then co-founded LawDeal, a company that was ahead of its time in offering clients flat-fee packages for legal work. He later co-founded LawDroid after realizing the potential for chatbots to change the delivery of legal services. In January, the company launched Copilot, an AI legal assistant that advances productivity even further by helping lawyers with research, summarization, grammar review, and drafting. Additionally, Tom is the co-founder of American Legal Technology, which awards legal professionals and organizations for their accomplishments in creative innovation and technology. Tom has also been named an ABA Legal Rebel and is a Fastcase 50 honoree.
In our conversation, Tom tells us about his lifelong love for technology, the shortcomings of ChatGPT, his exciting work at LawDroid, and coming up with the "Oscars of legal innovation."
Our guest today is a self-described “unapologetic access to justice advocate.” Natalie Anne Knowlton is the founder and principal consultant at Access to Justice Ventures, an organization committed to eliminating systemic barriers to legal resources by empowering entrepreneurs who are developing scalable solutions. As a law student, Natalie was deeply passionate about humanitarian and civil rights issues, so she ultimately decided to focus her career on the A2J space. Her list of activities is extensive. She became a research analyst at the Institute for the Advancement of the American Legal System (IAALS), a think tank that also develops and implements innovative solutions to advance the legal system and serve those in need. There Natalie and her colleagues have conducted quantitative and qualitative empirical research in order to effectively address access to justice challenges. Today she serves as advisor on regulatory innovation at IAALS, after serving various roles in research and special projects. In 2022, she launched Access to Justice Ventures, and also became a transition consultant at Self-Represented Litigation Network, which aims to reform the legal system as the number of self-represented litigants rises in the US. Additionally, Natalie is a limited partner at the investment fund LongJump and the venture capital fund Overlooked Ventures, both of which help new founders develop their businesses.
In our wide-ranging discussion, Natalie talks about how she channels "empirically informed outrage" to make a difference in law, her vision for regulatory reform, her work at Access to Justice Ventures, and her goals for changing the A2J space.
Our guest today is Jimmy Vestbirk, founder of Legal Geek, an organization that hosts events around the world for the legal tech community. Jimmy started his career in business, owning and operating a number of online dating sites. As he ran into different legal issues in these ventures, his experiences ultimately inspired him to find solutions to these problems. Drawing on his business knowledge, he co-founded the legal startup Flex Legal, where he discovered his passion for events. Jimmy would go on to start Legal Geek with the goal of making legal tech events more fun and engaging—encouraging attendees to dress comfortably, learn from one another, and make friends rather than sell. Since launching in 2015, Legal Geek has reached a total of more than 50,000 attendees from over 150 countries. Legal Geek also organized the world’s first legal tech startup conference in 2016, and will host the brand new Legal Growth Geek conference focusing on legal tech adoption. In April, the Ministry of Justice in the UK awarded £3 million to Legal Geek and its partner CodeBase to accelerate the growth of legal tech through the program LawtechUK.In today’s discussion, Jimmy tells us about making the leap to the legal industry, hosting events during the pandemic, how Legal Geek has evolved since its first event in San Francisco, and the topics he's excited to hear about at the upcoming Legal Geek North America conference hosted in Chicago.
We’re joined today by John Grant, a legal operations strategist who works with law firms and legal teams to improve their capacity and productivity. A fourth-generation lawyer, John was in the technology industry for nearly a decade before he entered the legal profession. As an attorney, he started in in-house counsel and legal operations roles before founding Agile Professionals LLC in 2014. As a consultant, he helps legal professionals develop legal services that are profitable, scalable, and sustainable for themselves as well as the communities they serve. Additionally, John is board president of The Commons Law Center, a nonprofit law firm providing affordable legal services to those in Oregon who make up to 400% of the federal poverty level. Both Agile Professionals and The Commons Law Center incorporate Kanban, a methodology that aims to improve efficiency and achieve excellent client value in production processes by visualizing workflows.Today, John talks about what he learned from working in tech, the need for human connection in the A2J space, applying Kanban principles to legal organizations, and how he helps attorneys with overwhelming workloads.
Today we speak with our 100th guest, Catherine Jackson Moynihan, a true pioneer and expert in legal operations—and another great example of an allied professional driving change in the profession.Catherine is Senior Director of Strategic Intelligence & Advisory at Hyperion Research, an Epiq company. After working in product management roles for several years, she had the opportunity to join the Association of Corporate Counsel, where she started and directed the legal operation section—at a time when legal operations was not the established function that it is today. Among the numerous strategic initiatives Catherine undertook, one of her key accomplishments was developing the ACC Legal Operations Maturity Model, toolkit, and training. With mentorship from then-vice president of the ACC—and friend of the podcast—Susan Hackett, Catherine also led ACC Value Challenge (and its Value Champions awards), a program with the goal of identifying and disseminating leading practices in the industry. Today, Catherine oversees Hyperion Research, Epiq’s legal operations market intelligence program, and she spearheads practical guidance and engagement opportunities for global legal executives advancing their legal transformation efforts.In our conversation, Catherine discusses how she "wandered" into the legal industry, the importance of data in Epiq’s legal services management framework, training legal professionals on change management, and her research work.As always, we appreciate your time listening in on these conversations. Now, on to the next 100 guests!
As we’ve discussed many times on the podcast, the access to justice gap is a particularly complex challenge to address, due to its links to systemic issues such as poverty and limited availability to legal resources and technology. Today’s guest, however, is helping people overcome these broader obstacles to legal services. Amanda Brown is the founder and executive director of Lagniappe Law Lab. The organization’s mission is to facilitate access to justice at scale for Louisiana's underprivileged populations through the use of technology, human-centered design, and operations principles. Upon graduating law school, Amanda was a disaster recovery attorney, using technology to assist victims of disasters with accessing public benefits and title clearing. She then worked as a Microsoft NextGen Fellow for the American Bar Association’s Center for Innovation, helping support the design and development of the Legal Services Corporation’s legal navigator program, which connects those in need with legal resources available to them. She went on to serve as a legal technology consultant for the Louisiana Bar Foundation on its statewide triage portal. Drawing on these experiences in legal tech and the A2J space, Amanda founded Lagniappe Law Lab in 2019. She is also co-chair of Louisiana’s Access to Justice Commission’s technology subcommittee, and she is a member of the Legal Services Corporation’s Emerging Leaders Council.Today, Amanda tells us about Lagniappe Law Lab—and how the team is incorporating human-centered design in its work, the unique challenges that the Lab’s clients face in Louisiana, and how she entered the A2J path.
Today we are joined by Memme Onwudiwe, co-founder and executive vice president of Legal and Business Intelligence at Evisort, a company using AI and advanced contract lifecycle management functions to help companies negotiate, organize, and extract data from their contracts. While still a student at Harvard Law, Memme helped build Evisort with three of his peers, through the school’s innovation lab. Inspired by their experiences doing contract work at legal internships, they developed a software that structures data from contracts so that attorneys don’t have to do so manually. Today, Memme and Evisort CEO Jerry Ting lecture together at Harvard, sharing their experiences as legal tech entrepreneurs, and teaching law students how they can follow a similar path. Memme also has a strong interest in space law, having written the peer-reviewed article "Africa and the Artemis Accords: A Review of Space Regulations and Strategy for African Capacity Building in the New Space Economy," which focuses on the potential impacts of frameworks such as the Artemis Accords on African Union states in their space development efforts. Additionally, Memme is co-owner of the African Museum of the Metaverse, which features some of the largest collections of art from top African and Black artists.In our wide-ranging discussion, Memme talks about why he made the leap to founding a company, his thoughts on generative AI, teaching a course at Harvard, and his fascination with space law.
Our guest today is Kathryn DeBord, vice president of product strategy at DISCO, a company that utilizes artificial intelligence, cloud computing, and data analytics to automate parts of the legal practice so that lawyers can focus their attention on other important areas. While Kathryn is known today for her work in legal innovation, her career journey actually began in an unexpected place—the Central Intelligence Agency. When Kathryn joined the CIA, she fulfilled a lifelong dream, but after four years as an intelligence analyst, she made a left turn and decided to go to law school. As a summer associate, Kathryn discovered her love for litigation, and went on to have a complex commercial litigation practice for over a decade. She was partner at Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner LLP when she joined the firm’s innovation committee, learning the ins and outs of law firm innovation and change management. Kathryn would go on to apply this knowledge as chief innovation officer, leading the firm’s international cross-disciplinary team to advance the quality of legal services through developing and adopting new technologies. Today, as vice president of product strategy at DISCO, she is helping the company determine what’s next in the litigation technology space.In today’s discussion, Kathryn tells us about how she started with the moniker “007,” leading to her life in the CIA; making left turns in her career; what litigation and innovation have in common; and working at DISCO.
Kristina Lambright is Senior Director of Strategic Growth at Perkins Coie LLP. She has had a fascinating legal career, serving various roles within the industry. After practicing in commercial litigation for nearly a decade, Kristina became a research specialist at Vinson & Elkins LLP, where she also assisted with budgeting. Seeking more involvement with driving decisions and revenue at the firm, she ventured into strategic pricing under the guidance of her colleague Toby Brown, the firm’s first director of pricing—and a friend of the podcast. Kristina went on to work at Akin Gump LLP, where she developed the firm’s strategic pricing and legal project management efforts. She has continued with pricing and LPM work at Perkins Coie, though her primary responsibility is leading the sourcing and acquisition of lateral partner candidates to meet the firm’s strategic goals. Additionally, Kristina is a founder and board member of the Legal Value Network, which drives deeper partnership and collaboration between legal organizations in order to accelerate the evolution of the industry.In our conversation, Kristina talks to us about her journey from commercial litigation to strategic growth, building trust with lawyers and clients, how she and her team at Perkins Coie approach lateral hiring, and how the Legal Value Network has grown since its inception.
As the freelance economy has grown over the past several years, more and more legal organizations and businesses have started seeking legal talent for fractional work in order to navigate budget restraints. Today’s guest, Matt Margolis, frequently discusses these developments as Head of Community at Lawtrades, a legal tech company that provides flexible, on-demand legal talent to in-house legal departments and law firms. Matt entered the legal industry as an attorney in private practice, but soon grew frustrated with the pressures of perfectionism. He started sharing his thoughts and stories on LinkedIn, and developed a sizeable following among legal professionals—eventually leading to an opportunity with Lawtrades. In his role, he leads the company’s efforts in marketing, business development, and community building. Matt is also the co-host of the Not Billable podcast and writes a newsletter, called Point Two, where he explores current events and hot topics in law.In today’s discussion, Matt talks to us about perfectionism among lawyers, his thoughts on the future of layoffs in the legal industry, and the challenges of pioneering a new way of sourcing legal talent.
Looking back over the past two years of guests, we see a diversity of backgrounds and perspectives: different generations, different paths, and different areas of focus—legal ops, legal tech, law education, working in the A2J space, and attorney well-being, among others. We've covered a lot of ground. Obviously, we cannot recap everything we have discussed, but as we think about change in the profession, certain themes seem to emerge from the conversations. For these purposes though, let's focus on the corporate legal landscape. The thesis of today’s episode is simple: That landscape has become more complex over the past few years—complexity only fueled by the pandemic.We tend to extol the virtues of simplicity, and rightly so, but complexity has its own virtue, opening both organizational and individual opportunities. Managing complexity is its own challenge, but in speaking with our pathfinders, we find certain markers of success.
To celebrate the two-year anniversary of Pioneers and Pathfinders, we welcome a very special guest—Professor Richard Susskind OBE.For those who have been engaged in the discussions around legal tech for the past few decades, Richard needs no introduction. He is one of the most advanced thinkers on the impact of technology on the profession, and has been challenging our notions about what it will mean to be a lawyer for a long time. Richard is an adviser, speaker, and author who was focused on legal tech and the future of the profession long before these subjects were top of mind in the industry. In the 1980s, he wrote his doctorate at Oxford University on artificial intelligence, and today, his main area of expertise continues to be the impact of AI and other technologies on the legal profession. Among other roles, Richard is President of the Society for Computers and Law, and Technology Adviser to the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales. He is also an adviser to leading professional firms, in-house legal departments, and governments and judiciaries around the world. He is a frequent speaker at conferences, seminars, retreats, and other events, having been invited to lecture in more than 60 countries. Richard has written 10 books and has contributed more than 150 articles to The Times of London. His most recent publication is the third edition of Tomorrow’s Lawyers, which guides legal professionals through the imminent future of law, and calls upon the next generation of lawyers to embrace technology in order to improve current legal and court services.In our conversation, Richard discusses the ways we should all be thinking about legal innovation, the challenges of training lawyers for the future, and the qualifications of those likely to develop breakthrough technologies in law, as well as his own journey and how he became interested in AI as an undergraduate student.
Our guest today is a true legal tech expert—Dennis Kennedy, director of the Center for Law, Technology and Innovation at Michigan State University College of Law. Dennis first saw the potential that technology had for advancing the legal industry when he started using computer tools in his estate and tax practice. He went on to work in house at MasterCard, where he focused on information technology and supported the company’s mobile wallet, API, and Labs business groups. For more than 20 years, Dennis has been an advisor and consultant on innovation, legal technology, and productization. Since 2015, he has been a law professor, helping his students explore nontraditional career paths in legal tech. Additionally, Dennis has written hundreds of articles on topics such as legal technology, innovation, and law practice management, as well as co-authored four books. He is also a frequent speaker and has co-hosted The Kennedy-Mighell Report podcast with attorney Tom Mighell for over a decade.Today, Dennis talks to us about his journey from an estate and tax practice to legal tech, being one of the first attorneys with a professional website, how he creates a sense of value around technology in law school, and his thoughts on recent advancements in artificial intelligence.
Today we speak with John Alber—retired lawyer, businessperson, and legal futurist. Like many of our guests, John’s career path has taken some fascinating turns. He was a partner at Bryan Cave LLP when he was given the opportunity to buy a company, which ultimately became Alber Leland, Inc., a database and software publisher in the transportation sector. John would later return to Bryan Cave as Strategic Innovation Partner—one of the first in the industry—applying his business skills and experience to find innovative ways for the firm to deliver legal services through new technology. Over time, he developed what we now might consider one of the first captive ALSPs. Additionally, John was a futurist for the International Legal Technology Association, where he served as a consultant on different programs and helped the organization focus on business strategies. Today, John dedicates himself to conservation in Florida, particularly the Apalachicola River, which has been called America's most endangered wild river.In our conversation, John tells us about his experience innovating at Bryan Cave, the ways he convinced lawyers to adopt technology, the advice he would give to legal professionals on tech and innovation, and his recent conservation efforts.
As the current discussion around the hot topic of ChatGPT evidences, legal technology is constantly evolving and developing. This results in a level of complexity and confusion for both legal organizations and tech companies as they try to stay competitive. One of the people helping them navigate these waters is Zach Abramowitz, founder of Killer Whale Strategies. A former M&A attorney, Zach founded the company in 2019, with the goals of facilitating connections between law firms and tech companies, and assisting with their strategic decisions and investments. Zach’s interest in legal tech goes beyond his work at Killer Whale Strategies. He is an advisory board member at LegalMation, and he frequently blogs about the impact of technology on the legal industry.In our conversation, Zach talks about maintaining professional relationships through virtual meetings, what he looks for in clients and investment opportunities, and his thoughts on the potential impact of generative AI on the legal industry.
Today’s guest is Paula Davis, founder and CEO of the Stress & Resilience Institute, which helps legal professionals and teams manage stress and avoid burnout. Paula entered the legal profession as a real estate attorney, but facing burnout herself, she ultimately left her practice to pursue a master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. There she began working in a program for the US Army, helping teach senior NCOs, officers, and other Army leaders and their families techniques to build resiliency. In 2013, she founded the Stress & Resilience Institute, where she has taught thousands of legal professionals and legal leaders tools associated with building individual, team, and organizational resilience by drawing on scientific studies and data. Additionally, Paula is a writer on topics such as stress management, burnout prevention, and hybrid teaming, frequently appearing in publications around the globe. She has also authored and co-authored a number of books and e-books.In today’s discussion, Paula tells us about being a self-described “recovering perfectionist,” how she defines resilience and burnout, and how legal organizations can maintain a sense of belonging in hybrid working environments, which both helps to build resilience and prevent burnout in law. In light of the growing complexity of the legal industry—and the stress associated with it, this is a timely and informative conversation.
Today we are joined by David Cunningham, chief innovation officer at Reed Smith and founder of Legal Metrics. David began driving change in the legal industry many years ago—first working with legal professionals as a tech strategy consultant for law firms, drawing on his business background to help clients improve their practices. David went on to become chief information officer at Winston & Strawn, where he created the firm’s strategies and oversaw its innovation efforts. He also founded Legal Metrics, a company that helps legal departments and law firms calculate and benchmark legal operations metrics to ensure excellence in diversity, as well as other business metrics important to legal departments. Today, David is chief innovation officer at Reed Smith, the first person to ever hold this position at the firm. There he has led initiatives such as the Innovation Lab, a program that identifies new ways of delivering legal services—and helps attorneys adopt those practices.In our discussion, David tells us about the lessons he learned as a consultant and how he applies them to his current position, the value of hiring an anthropologist at a law firm, and what excites him about the future of legal tech.
Today's episode takes a break from our usual format. Last week, Steve Poor participated in a webinar hosted by the Association of Corporate Counsel (ACC) Law Department Management Network (LDMN) about the implications of ChatGPT with Khurram Gore of Verizon, and Amy Yeung of Sallie Mae. Khurram has a deep background in technology and innovation, focusing on the intersection of law, technology, and business. At Verizon, he leads legal for their chief product development officer and the technology development organization, including Verizon’s 5G Labs, innovation partnerships, augmented reality and virtual reality business, and emerging tech groups. In addition to other outside activities, Khurram is also the entrepreneur in residence at the Stevens Venture Center for the Stevens Institute of Technology. Amy, who moderated the conversation, is a technology executive and thought leader with extensive experience in disruptive technology, digital innovation, and other strategic initiatives across all company life cycles. She has a track record of success in transformation, technology products counseling and B2B and B2C settings, leading significant operational initiatives strategy, data governance, and data architecture, among other things.In this conversation, we focus on the basics of ChatGPT and its potential impact on the legal industry, as well as the shortcomings of the program. The speakers’ insights give a valuable perspective on the implications of generative AI broadly, as well as ChatGPT in particular. We have edited the conversation for clarity.
Today we speak with Alma Asay, senior director of Practice Innovation and Client Value at Crowell & Moring. Alma’s interest in innovation began while she was a litigator at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher, using technology to improve efficiency for the firm’s clients. Without any experience in the technology industry or as an entrepreneur, she founded Allegory, a cloud-based litigation management platform that delivers services and insights across the entire litigation spectrum. The story of her journey with Allegory is a fascinating one of challenges, successes, and enormous perseverance. In 2017, Integreon bought the company, making Alma the first female founder to have a legal technology business acquired. At Crowell & Moring, Alma has built the firm’s innovation department, where she and her team address technology and legal operations needs.In today’s discussion, Alma talks to us about the lessons she learned in starting a company, the advice she shares with women entrepreneurs, and the impact her traveling experiences have had on her professional life.
Today we are joined by Catherine Alman MacDonagh, a lawyer, entrepreneur, and CEO and founder of the Legal Lean Sigma Institute. Catherine started her legal career as director of corporate marketing for Counsel Connect, a first-of-its-kind social network platform for attorneys. After several roles in marketing and business development at law firms, she founded the Legal Sales and Service Organization, where she developed the Legal Lean Sigma Institute. The Institute was formed out of Catherine’s interest in “harnessing the power of teams.” She believes that change management can help address matters such as DEI, the war for talent, and improving employee and client experiences. Catherine has also founded the Coalition of Professional Services Providers and co-founded Legal Sustainability and Social Impact. Additionally, she is the chief enthusiasm officer and co-founder of The Legal Mocktail, a program that teaches legal professionals the skills of networking through fun simulation exercises.In our discussion, Catherine tells us about how she was introduced to Lean and Six Sigma, how she confronts attorney skepticism toward change management, and what being a chief enthusiasm officer means to her.
Today’s guest is Kunoor Chopra, a true pioneer in the legal industry and vice president of Legal Services at Elevate, a law company providing software and services for the intersection of business and law. A litigator by training at Am Law 50 firms, she made the transition into legal services outsourcing when she founded LawScribe, one of the pioneer alternative legal service providers in the industry. She made the leap to founder in 2004—before the term ALSP was even born. Kunoor’s move from Am Law 50 to founder is not unusual now, but it was unheard of 19 years ago. After selling the company to UnitedLex, she co-founded Elevate with entrepreneur Liam Brown. As a lesbian South Asian woman, Kunoor wanted to create a place where people can bring their authentic selves to work, and she fulfilled this vision by co-founding Elevate. For more than a decade, Elevate’s legal, business, and technology professionals have offered practical ways for global law departments and law firms to improve efficiency, quality, and business outcomes. Additionally, she is a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, focusing on innovation and transformation in legal services delivery.In our conversation, Kunoor tells us about her transition from law to sales, finding acceptance as a diverse attorney, and her thoughts on the future of the legal services industry.
Toby Brown is the CEO and founder of DV8 Legal Strategies and a true pioneer in pricing and project management in the legal industry. Toby got his start in law firm administration, and then became director of the Utah State Bar. His move to head of knowledge management at Fulbright & Jaworski marked the start of his business of law innovation journey, which has since led to a number of roles at Am Law 100 firms building pricing and project management programs. Today, Toby helps legal organizations break from the status quo and develop differentiated and sustainable strategies in lateral partner hiring, pricing, and legal project management. Toby is a respected speaker on topics such as legal management, marketing, and technology. He also founded the Standards Advancement for the Legal Industry, and was co-founder of the 3 Geeks and a Law Blog.In our conversation, we discuss Toby's professional journey and how it led to legal project management, the need for standards in the profession, what drives him to bring people together in the industry, and his new venture at DV8 Legal Strategies.
Today's guest is Dr. Sonja Ebron, a PhD of electrical engineering and an entrepreneur with a background in AI. She co-founded Courtroom5 with her wife, Dr. Debra Slone, PhD, a former librarian, school professor, and qualitative data and analysis expert. Motivated by their own difficult experiences navigating the judicial system, they decided to help others in similar situations. Courtroom5 provides people with the tools, resources, and workshops needed to help them settle civil cases, with or without a lawyer to accompany them. Through the resources they provide, people of all classes can learn and understand the legal process without being shut out. Courtroom5 won first place at the Duke Law Tech Lab Demo Day in 2019 and since then, has continued to grow. In 2022, Courtroom5 partnered with Fastcase to provide limited scope access to lawyers who use Fastcase, and to select individual elements of cases where they can provide the most help.It was a fascinating conversation with Dr. Ebron, covering everything from her personal journey to her experience as a serial entrepreneur, and how her training as an engineer influences her approach to the development of Courtroom5. Dr. Ebron is also the host of a podcast called Who Wrote That Up For You?, so we talked shop about the ins and outs of podcast life. Dr. Ebron is a fabulous example of the incredibly important role allied professionals can play in driving change in the profession.
To close out this year, we are delighted to welcome back an old friend, Jae Um. Jae is one of the most sought-after strategy executives in the legal industry. She is the founder and executive director of Six Parsecs, an insights firm for the legal vertical. In addition to strategic consulting for law firm leadership, Jae serves on advisory boards for emerging legal tech companies, including LegalMation, Datana, and LexFusion. Jae got her start in Big Law at Seyfarth, where she served in a progression of high-impact roles in client service innovation and strategic growth. She then went on to serve as director of pricing strategy for Baker McKenzie worldwide. She is a contributing author to Legal Evolution, The American Lawyer, and other publications covering the legal industry. In her spare time, Jae has created a series called Lawyering at Scale on Luminate+. Her work is consistently brilliant.Jae was one of our first guests on the podcast when we launched in 2021, and we are thrilled to have her back for a fascinating conversation about her life on the road, the role of empathy in her consulting practice, the cultural commonalities of the most successful law firms, and how she sees the landscape for the profession unfolding in 2023.
We have had numerous guests on the podcast focused on legal tech, but in today’s conversation, we talk about practical governance strategies for AI and other frontier technologies with Karen Silverman, the CEO and founder of The Cantellus Group. Karen advises Fortune 50 companies, startups, consortia, and governments on how to govern cutting-edge technologies in a rapidly changing policy environment. Her expertise is informed by more than 20 years of practice and management leadership at Latham & Watkins LLP, where she advised global businesses in complex antitrust matters, M&A, governance, ESG, and crisis management. Karen is a leading voice in the governance of AI and other frontier technologies. She is a regular speaker at conferences and forums, and her thoughts on the governance oversight and real-world applications of AR, AI, VR, and other nascent technologies have been featured in numerous journals and publications. Most recently, Karen launched a series on Luminate+, a streaming platform for cutting-edge legal content featuring the most respected thought leaders of the profession. Karen’s series, “Where Lawyers Meet Tech and Tech Meets the Law,” is about how new technologies affect the substance and practice of law, and what all lawyers need to know in order to be effective counselors.In our conversation, we talk about how Karen developed her level of expertise in business and legal issues around frontier technologies. We also discuss what The Cantellus Group does and the type of companies they work with, together with her views on the knock-on effects of machine learning on the culture of the practice. And of course, we talk about the changes necessary in the regulatory framework to keep up with the speed of change in technology.
Today's guest is Haley Altman. She is a corporate attorney, founder, and a friend to many of us in the legal technology innovation space. Haley has had a fascinating career, where she moved from attorney for buyers and sellers, to founding and selling her own company, and eventually landing on the buy side with Litera. She began her career in Big Law, first as an associate and then partner, moving into entrepreneurship as the founder of Doxly, Inc., which was acquired by Litera. There she took on the role of global head of corporate development, and eventually led 10 acquisitions in a time span of less than two years. Most recently, Haley has shifted to a strategic advisor consulting role at Litera, where she continues to support the leadership team and their M&A and product strategy.
In our conversation, we talk about why Haley jumped from equity partner to founder, and the support she got from her firm and the venture studio High Alpha. We also discuss why she turned her focus to the talent side of the legal industry, and how she is addressing burnout and career progression—both for herself and for others in the profession.
Today’s guest is Carmin Ballou, vice president of Data Analytics and Innovation at Attorneys' Liability Assurance Society, also known as ALAS. ALAS is the country’s largest lawyer-owned mutual, insuring 223 law firms—including 89 of the Am Law 200—with more than 74,000 lawyers located around the world. A lawyer with a Master of Science in Analytics degree from the University of Chicago Graham School, Carmin is focused on a key element of the legal profession: risk management. She uses her legal background and technical skills to lead the data analytics team at ALAS, with a goal of instilling more robust risk management-based analytics across all functional areas of ALAS, and providing analysis and tools for use of their member firms. The analytics initiatives are designed to assist in ALAS' ongoing operations, and to provide a service to ALAS' member firms by helping them understand and manage their professional liability risk. To this work, she brings many years of experience as a practicing attorney at Skadden, as well as expertise in machine learning, natural language processing, SQL, Python, and Power BI.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn how Carmin's team uses data to test and support the experiences of her loss prevention colleagues. We also talk about the use of data visualization techniques to help communicate the messages learned from the data as to a firm’s area with the most issues. And of course, we talk about her professional journey and how her interest in project management and data analytics instructed her personal path.
Today we welcome back our premiere guest, Dr. Heidi K. Gardner. An economist by training, she is a distinguished fellow at Harvard Law School’s Center on the Legal Profession and chair of the school’s Smarter Collaboration Master Class and Sector Leadership Master Class. In addition to these roles, she founded and runs her own consultancy, Gardner & Co. In our first conversation, we talked about her journey, how she got involved in studying the legal profession, and her bestselling book, Smart Collaboration, a data-driven look at the business case for effective collaboration. Now, Dr. Gardner has a new book, Smarter Collaboration, co-authored with Ivan Matviak. In this book, she builds on the concepts of smart collaboration with data, case studies, and ways to help leaders identify places where smarter collaboration is already happening—and take it to the next level.
Join us as we catch up with Dr. Gardner on what she has been doing since we last spoke, and explore why she was inspired to write her new book. We cover a wide range of topics: why we should continue to cultivate “serendipitous encounters” at work, how organizations can avoid the dangers of over-collaboration, and how they can better collaborate with outside parties such as consultants and vendors. We hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did.
Today’s guest is Alex Smith, Global Product Management Lead for iManage RAVN. He got his start at legal publishing giant LexisNexis, where he began in online editorial work and eventually evolved his role to product management and platform innovation. An interest in new roles in law firms led to his time as innovation manager at Reed Smith, a global firm where he oversaw the firm’s Innovation Hub program that encouraged, communicated, connected, and managed a pipeline of ideas across the firm's global network. Today, he oversees the product roadmap for the search, knowledge, and AI offerings within the wider iManage experience, bringing the voice, needs, and ideas of the customer in service design. The common thread in his career journey is his fascination with search and data, and the evolution of new and emerging technologies, from CD-ROM to contract management, artificial intelligence, semantic search, and linked data. In many ways, Alex’s career maps the evolution of technology in the legal sector.
Our conversation flashes back to the early days of online legal publishing up to today's emerging technologies. We talk about Alex's various work experiences, and how he uses lawyers’ penchant for talking about themselves in his work in product design. We also discuss how he has been at the core of some of the critical technology products in the legal industry.
Contracts are a hot topic in education, technology innovation, and practice in the legal industry. In fact, we've had several guests on the show focused on those aspects of contract management, but today's guest focuses on contract formation. She asks a simple, but important question: Can we learn to do a better job of negotiating and drafting better contracts? Laura Frederick is the founder and CEO of How to Contract. Drawn from her 26 years practicing contract law, How To Contract teaches real-world skills in negotiating and drafting contracts. The formation of How To Contract is a fascinating story. Two years ago, Laura began sharing daily contracting tips as part of a 30-day challenge of posting on LinkedIn. The reaction to these posts was overwhelmingly positive, and Laura went from 1,000 followers on LinkedIn to more than 33,000 followers today. This, in turn, led to her book, Practical Tips on How to Contract. Laura also launched How To Contract, the global leader in practical contract training for lawyers and professionals. Through its training membership and events, it has helped thousands of people learn how to manage contract risk and get deals done. Laura is also the managing attorney of Laura Frederick Law, PLLC, a boutique law firm based in Austin, Texas that helps companies that need practical and affordable advice on commercial contracts.
In today's conversation, we talk about Laura’s use of social media and her move to being an entrepreneur. We also discuss what ignited Laura's love of contracts, how and why she addresses the human side of contracting at a time when technology dominates, and the influence of SeyfarthLean on her evolution.
Mishcon de Reya is one of the most unique and fascinating law firms in the world. Today’s guest, Elliot Moss, is the mind behind Mishcon’s brand. Elliot is chief brand officer and a partner at Mishcon, a 600 fee-earner firm headquartered in London. This unique combination of roles is made possible by the Legal Services Act 2007 in the UK. Elliot has overall responsibility for brand, marketing, communications, client development, new business, and social impact for the firm. He comes from the world of advertising, having worked for Leo Burnett and Leagas Delaney. It was here that he first met Mishcon’s managing partner—now executive chairperson—Kevin Gold. After a two-year contract with the firm, Elliot stayed on, attracted by what he calls the great “volume of intellectual capital” in the law. Since then, he has become the first nonlawyer to be named as one of the Financial Times' 10 Most Innovative Individuals. He also happens to have a long-running podcast called Jazz Shapers, where he interviews founders and entrepreneurs on their own professional journeys.
It was a fascinating and wide-ranging conversation. We discussed the cultural attributes that make Mishcon such an innovative and unique firm. We also veered into a number of other intriguing topics. For example, the firm recently sponsored a film from The Economist on the culture wars, which is not typical for a law firm, and we talked about how their atypical branding moves are “utterly rational.” We also talked about why he made the leap from consumer-oriented branding to the law, how he made the case for Mishcon to make him a partner, and what's next for their IPO—and how he sold it to his partners.
It's always a delight to talk to people who are passionate about what they do. Dr. Silvia Hodges Silverstein is such a person. She researches, teaches, and speaks on purchasing decisions and change in the legal industry. Silvia is the CEO of Buying Legal Council, which supports professionals tasked with sourcing legal services and legal tech through education, research, and advocacy. Their mission is to advance the field of buying legal services and legal tech by sharing intelligence and best practices on how to buy and manage supplier relationships. Silvia is the editor of The Definitive Guide to Buying Legal Services and has authored two Harvard Business School case studies on legal procurement and the legal industry. She has also taught management at Columbia Law School and Fordham University School of Law.
Our conversation covered a number of interesting topics. We talked about how Silvia's journey in marketing for an Italian law firm led to her interest and expertise in procurement, the evolution of procurement's role in buying legal services and the ongoing struggle between lawyers and procurement professionals, and her view on which pricing model is least used by in-house counsel and the reason why.
Jennifer Leonard is the University of Pennsylvania Carey Law School's chief innovation officer and the executive director of the Future of the Profession Initiative. As chief innovation officer, Jennifer advances projects that evolve our understanding of the skills and knowledge lawyers need to thrive in a rapidly changing professional landscape. She and her colleagues also develop multidisciplinary projects that engage law students with creative thinkers from the Wharton School, Penn Engineering, the School of Nursing, and more to design solutions and make civil legal systems more accessible.
In today's episode, Jennifer tells us about her groundbreaking role as the first and only chief innovation officer at a law school, how she is using design thinking to collaborate across Penn and with peers at other law schools, and her advice for creative law students who want to enter the world of Big Law—as well as her advice for those firms.
Zach Posner is a three-time entrepreneur turned investor. He is working to find ways that artificial intelligence can be used to positively affect the world. To that end, Zach is the co-founder and managing partner at The LegalTech Fund, which is the first venture capital fund to focus exclusively on legal tech. Founded in 2020 post-pandemic, the Fund recently closed to $28.5 million, exceeding its goal of $25 million. The vision of The LegalTech Fund is to bring together a community of the world's most forward-thinking experts and advisors to accelerate innovation in the legal world.
In today's conversation, we talked about how this finance major came to invest in legal tech, the criteria Zach looks for when he makes investments, and his plans for the inaugural The LegalTech Fund Summit coming in December.
The past few years have seen a rise in heads of innovation at Big Law firms. One of the leading voices in this space is David Wang, Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati’s chief innovation officer. David is responsible for overseeing the firm's innovation strategy, the development and implementation of legal technology programs, and supporting and advising both internal and client teams on the legal and operational implications of emerging technologies and business models. He previously practiced corporate and securities law for more than 10 years, working with private and public companies on general corporate and transactional matters. Prior to becoming a lawyer, David was an entrepreneur himself. Under David’s leadership, Wilson has received multiple accolades for their innovative use of technology.
In today's conversation, we discuss how David transitioned from the practice of law to leading a cutting-edge innovation and technology team at a Big Law firm, how he manages his portfolio of responsibilities, his decision-making process for taking on new projects, and what excites him most in the legal tech market.
JusticeText, an MIT- and Google-backed startup, is building technology to improve criminal justice outcomes for low-income Americans. Today's guest is Devshi Mehrotra, JusticeText CEO and co-founder. She started this work when she was a computer science undergraduate at the University of Chicago, while the city was reeling from the death of Laquan McDonald. Devshi and co-founder Leslie Jones-Dove began their work helping public defenders better utilize large volumes of admissible video and audio data. Today, JusticeText is an audiovisual evidence management platform that expedites review of collective video and audio data with machine learning to support the work of public defenders.
Devshi talks to us about how falling in love with the problem helped her go against her natural risk aversion, how participating in startup programs and accelerators contributed to the success of JusticeText, and how she is building a strong company culture.
Tony Thai is an attorney, entrepreneur, and software engineer. He founded and serves as CEO and chief engineer of HyperDraft, a company which builds bespoke document automation software for law firms and legal departments. Prior to his legal career, Tony worked as an enterprise software engineer. An M&A venture capital attorney by training, his goal was always to build tech to disrupt the profession. To learn how lawyers practice and how the law is delivered, Tony practiced at some of the world's most prestigious law firms, as well as in-house at multiple technology companies. He was recently recognized as a Fastcase 50 honoree, and serves as an adjunct professor at USC Gould School of Law.
In today's conversation, we talk about why Tony embraces all the boring stuff nobody else wants to do; how a desire to understand how humans think led to his work in machine learning, software, and algorithms; and how HyperDraft is a culmination of every experience he has had.
We've had a number of guests on the show focused on the A2J gap, as well as issues of social justice, but today's guest, Jazz Hampton, combines both. Jazz is CEO and general counsel at TurnSignl, a Minnesota-based tech company that he co-founded in the wake of the deaths of Philando Castile and George Floyd. TurnSignl is a mobile app where the user, if stopped for a traffic violation or involved in an accident, can push a button and be connected automatically to an attorney to receive real-time, on-demand legal guidance. The goal of the app is to keep drivers safe and empowered while speaking with law enforcement. Before joining TurnSignl, Jazz was the director of diversity and inclusion and a practicing attorney at a national law firm. Among other roles, Jazz has won a number of accolades, most recently being named to Fastcase 50.
Join us for a fascinating conversation about TurnSignl’s growth plans, how this first-generation college student ended up in law school, and how a mentor made all the difference when Jazz was starting out.
We're joined today by Olga V. Mack. Olga is vice president and CEO of Parley Pro at LexisNexis. Parley Pro is a contract life cycle management platform that is pioneering online negotiation technology. Olga has dedicated her career to improving and shaping the future of law. She believes that by embracing technology, the legal profession will become stronger, more resilient, and more inclusive. Olga's TED talks are very popular, and she is an outspoken advocate for professional women. She founded the Women Serve on Boards movement that advocates for women to serve on corporate boards. In her spare time, she helps startups thrive and grow, serving as an advisory board member for a number of companies.
Listen in to today's conversation to learn more about why Olga thinks it's so important that the body of law be human centered and how to make it so, the role of technology in law as a service, and why a more transparent world demands more accessible contracts.
Casey Flaherty is well known in the world of legal innovation. His career journey has taken him to nearly every corner of the legal system. Casey has been a Big Law litigator, in-house counsel at a Global 500 company, a legal operations consultant, and architect of the legal project management team with the world's largest law firm. Today he is co-founder and chief strategy officer at LexFusion, a collaborative circle of handpicked, truly excellent legal innovation companies. In Casey's role, he focuses on the consultative aspects of the company's go-to-market operation, with an emphasis on market listening, thought leadership, and community-building.
Listen to our discussion to learn why market listening is so critical to LexFusion's value proposition, how the challenges around the acquisition of technology can cause people and companies to resign themselves to the status quo, and more about Casey's current project—a maturity model of transactions that firms can use as self-assessment.
Marlene Gebauer is a self-described “knowledge heroine.” After a successful stint as a practicing lawyer, Marlene became a law librarian, where she then transitioned into legal information management. She focuses on research, outreach and education, procurement, licensing, and management. Today she is the director of knowledge management at Locke Lord, where she drives adoption of innovative legal service technologies. In her spare time, she is co-host of the award-winning The Geek In Review podcast with a friend of our podcast, Greg Lambert.
In today's conversation, we talked about how an art kid ended up as a lawyer and legal industry innovator, how she went from being quiet to being co-host of a podcast, and what she has learned from more than 160 episodes of The Geek In Review.
Over the past decade or so, the legal industry has expanded dramatically to include different kinds of providers, and no part of the industry has contributed to that growth more than the managed services sector. Today we're joined by Ed Sohn, a veteran of that segment of the industry. As with so many of our guests, Ed started out in Big Law—in this case, as an attorney with King & Spalding. A desire to see India led Ed to spend seven years as an executive with Pangea3, the company that pioneered legal managed services and that was acquired by Thomson Reuters. When Thomson Reuters sold Pangea3 to Ernst and Young, Ed moved to EY Law, where he led its global innovation and technology initiatives. Ed has since left EY Law and joined Factor, which is a spinoff of Axiom and is a unique player in the managed services sector. In his current role at Factor, he is responsible for the learning, development, and capacity of the more than 600 lawyers who call Factor home. Ed tells us that his goal is to advance change in the legal industry by delivering practical scale and quality through managed services.
Listen in to today's conversation to learn how key moments of reflection changed Ed’s career path, how his personal interest in traveling India led to one of the most defining experiences of his career, and more about his belief that true innovation isn't about disaggregation or artificial intelligence—instead, it's about tapping into human potential.
For those conversant with the world of legal tech, today's guest needs no introduction…but we’ll do it anyway. Noah Waisberg is a serial legal tech entrepreneur who is changing the way lawyers practice law. Most recently, he co-founded and became CEO of software company Zuva, which uses AI to extract the value out of documents and contracts within client businesses. Zuva, in turn, is a spinoff of Kira, which Noah co-founded and led as CEO from its start, through to its exit to Litera. Kira continues to be a leader in the contract analysis space, and is trusted by a majority of Am Law 100 law firms. Noah has received numerous honors for his work and is often featured in mainstream and legal media. Interestingly enough, he is also the author of the world's first children's book on machine learning, called Robbie the Robot Learns to Read, as well as AI for Lawyers, which is not for kids, but for adults, and is the definitive guide to AI in law practice.
In our conversation, we talked about how his experience as a corporate lawyer at a global law firm in New York City led to the founding of Kira, how and why he decided to skip business school and jump straight into business, and how a slow internet connection led to his biggest sales breakthrough.
Today’s guest is Nicole Black, legal technology evangelist at MyCase. Nicole describes her role as a bridge between technology and the practice of law. On the MyCase side of the bridge, she represents the lawyer point of view, and shares insights and industry knowledge with MyCase’s tech and marketing teams. (We should note that following our recording of this episode, MyCase announced its acquisition by AffiniPay; we did not discuss that because of the timing.) On the attorney side of the bridge, she educates lawyers on using technology to streamline their law firms, increase efficiencies, and provide better client representation. In addition to her day job, Nicole has written or co-authored three books, including Cloud Computing for Lawyers. She also writes regular legal tech columns and frequently speaks at legal conferences across the country.
Join today’s conversation to learn why Nicole considers the work she did as an intern her most significant legal work, how her history in small and solo firms set her up for success as a legal technology evangelist, the biggest challenges faced by small firm and solo practitioners, and what excites her the most about the near-term and longer-term changes in legal technology.
Today’s guest is Nikki Shaver, a high-achieving legal technology executive specializing in legal business transformation and enterprisewide change management. Her experience in the legal industry includes 10 years of legal practice with top-tier law firms and Fortune 500 companies and close to a decade of experience as a global innovation leader in large law firms. Most recently, she left her role as lead of innovation and KM lead at Paul Hastings to devote herself full-time to Legal Technology Hub, an insights and analysis platform bringing transparency to the procurement and adoption of legal technology by commercial legal organizations. Her recognition includes ILTA as Innovative Leader of the Year, Fastcase 50, and ABA Distinguished Women of Legal Tech.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn how she founded Legal Technology Hub, how it works, and what’s next for the platform; how she dealt with change management in her roles; and what law firms can do to make KM and innovation programs a success.
Anyone following the business of Big Law will be familiar with today’s guest. Over the past few years, Roy Strom has been one of the key reporters covering the country's biggest law firms and how money flows through the legal system. His weekly column, “Big Law Business,” examines the economics, cultures, and personalities inside law firms and an increasingly competitive industry. For the past five years, he has focused on change in Big Law, devoting his 100th column to the accelerating pace of change in the industry.
Listen in to today’s conversation for his take on the recent Upsolve, Inc. decision in New York, which opens the door for “nonlawyer” legal practitioners; how his passion for the Cubs led to his career as a legal reporter; and the trend lines that he sees in the industry post-pandemic.
Today’s guest is Ivy Grey, a legal tech entrepreneur, well-regarded writer, and former practicing lawyer. Her work on technology competence, ethics, and innovation has made her a respected thought leader in legal tech. Ivy has been recognized as a Fastcase 50 Honoree and was recently named to Women of Legal Tech by the ABA Legal Technology Resource Center. Currently, Ivy is Vice President of Strategy and Business Development for WordRake, an editing software for professionals. Ivy writes and speaks frequently about change management and legal technology implementation.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn about how Ivy went from anthropology and journalism to bankruptcy law, the algorithm she used to choose a law school, and how swing dancing has influenced her major life decisions.
In today's episode, we're joined by Pieter van der Hoeven. Pieter is the co-founder and CEO of Clocktimizer, which was one of the first legal tech products that applied machine learning techniques in an effort to pull actionable data from individual lawyer time records. An M&A lawyer by training, Pieter co-founded Clocktimizer out of frustration with a manual process of reviewing time records to report to clients and a belief that there had to be a better way. Over the years, Clocktimizer grew into a multimillion-dollar business with customers all over the globe. In April 2021, it was acquired by Litera, a legal tech company that helps legal organizations streamline operations, improve firmwide profitability, and build and scale pricing and legal management teams. Among other things, Litera itself has been on a bit of an acquisition binge in the legal tech space. Today Pieter is with Litera, where he continues to build on the successes of Clocktimizer and continues to work on the cutting edge of legal tech and its application to the profession.
Our conversation covered Pieter’s individual journey and how Clocktimizer arose out of an aha! moment when he realized that the rich data and timecards could be leveraged with automation. We also talked about his thoughts around the evolution of legal tech and its impact on profitability.
David Johnson is a lawyer, teacher, and writer. His fascinating career path has taken him from Miami courtrooms in the '80s to general counsel roles for Silicon Valley tech startups in the '90s, and now teaching and research posts at Stanford Law School and the Stanford Institute of Design—known as the “d.school.” His work in design began as GC and COO for a consultancy that was applying design thinking for business advice. This eventually led to his d.school class, Negotiation by Design. Today, he is applying design thinking learnings, not just to the wicked problems facing legal, but to the even bigger problems facing climate change in his new book, Climate Activism by Design, which brings design thinking to citizen activists responding to the climate change crisis. His most recent article, “Design for Legal Systems,” was published by the Singapore Academy of Law.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn more about how design thinking can help with the development and improvement of human systems, how it can help lawyers think more collaboratively, and how it can move us from the feeling of individual powerlessness to collaborative power to solve massive problems such as climate change.
Today we welcome Jessica Stuart, Senior Product Manager at Pro Bono Net. In her role, she combines her passion for access to justice with her interests in technology, process improvement, and the user experience to increase the effectiveness and reach of law firm pro bono programs via the practice management software Pro Bono Manager. Jessica has also helped lead the platform development and product strategy for Pro Bono Net’s Remote Legal Connect platform, which allows legal services providers, pro bono initiatives, courts, and community partners to rapidly build and manage a legal support program regardless of location. Jessica has been crucial in implementing the development strategy for Remote Legal Connect, which has been adopted by organizations such as Atlanta Legal Aid and Legal Aid of Nebraska.
Listen in to today’s conversation to hear more about the growth and evolution of Pro Bono Net, the power of virtual courtrooms to increase access to justice, how Jessica’s love of music got her started on the A2J technology path, and how SeyfarthLean was an early inspiration.
For anyone following the rapidly evolving area of legal technology, today's guest will be a familiar voice. Bob Ambrogi—lawyer, journalist, media consultant, and blogger—has been working at the intersection of law, media, and technology for 40 years. He is known internationally for his expertise in legal technology, legal practice, and legal ethics. He's won numerous awards for his blog and his leading role on the cutting edge of change in the industry, including being named to Fastcase 50 and Legal Rebels Trailblazers. Before entering the blogosphere, Bob was an editor at a number of mainstream legal publications.
In today's conversation, we talk about Bob's journey as a journalist, his views on the current state of mainstream media, the potential of regulatory reform to further disrupt the industry, and the growing diversity of the legal technology industry.
Today we are joined by Ed Walters, a true pioneer in legal tech and driver of change in the legal industry. Ed is the CEO and co-founder of Fastcase, which has grown into one of the world’s largest cloud-based legal software providers for the legal industry. It currently serves more than 800,000 subscribers from around the world. Before founding Fastcase, Ed spent time in Big Law serving a number of large companies, and worked as a speechwriter in the White House. Ed is active in the A2J space, serving on the boards of Pro Bono Net, Public.Resource.org, Friends of Telecom Without Borders, and Salsa Labs. He also teaches Law of Robots, a class about the frontiers of law and technology, at Georgetown University Law Center. Ed is the creator of the Fastcase 50, a yearly list of 50 legal industry innovators who are drawn from all corners of the legal ecosphere. If you want to know who’s who and who’s coming up, it’s a can’t miss.
Listen in to learn how this self-professed “beer and softball lawyer” became an entrepreneur and founder of a pioneering legal tech company, how launching during the dot-com bubble burst worked out for him, and what’s next for Fastcase.
If you have spent any time in the “legal tech” hashtag on social media, you’ve probably encountered today’s guest. And you probably already know that Colin S. Levy is not your typical lawyer. Shaped by his experience graduating law school during the tail end of the Great Recession, he has taken many twists and turns, from eschewing Big Law to finding an in-house job—and most recently, taking on the role of legal tech evangelist at a contract life cycle management startup. Through it all, one of his key takeaways was that a lack of technological aptitude in lawyers was limiting the growth and evolution of the profession. And he has dedicated himself to exploring and closing this gap by finding out what makes legal industry innovators tick through his blog, podcasts, and social media.
Tune in to today’s conversation to learn more about Colin, his love of legal tech, and how he uses social media to create career opportunities for himself.
In recognition of Well-Being Week in Law, we are bringing you our interview with Jeena Cho, a pioneer in the area of mental health and wellness for lawyers.
Long before the nonstop stressors of the last two years, Jeena Cho was a vocal advocate for the well-being of lawyers. It started when she realized how meditation and mindfulness could help her deal with the stress of practicing bankruptcy law. Since that time, her message about the urgency of wellness for lawyers has resonated throughout the industry, thanks in large part to her best-selling book, The Anxious Lawyer. She is a regular contributor to legal and traditional media, and she also speaks and offers training and workshops to law firms and bar associations around the country.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn about: - Jeena’s journey to law—which was inspired by a long-running TV show. - How her meditation practice started. - When she realized mindfulness had broader application to the well-being issues facing legal professionals, and how it can make the profession more inclusive.
Today’s guest is Michael Rynowecer, president and founder of The BTI Consulting Group. For more than 30 years, Michael has helped service organizations enhance their performance by looking at every angle of the client relationship through the lens of the client experience. He has conducted and analyzed more than 20,000 one-on-one interviews with C-level executives to discover their expectations, needs, priorities, preferences, and opinions about outside counsel. This research has established BTI as the industry leader in delivering insights on how clients acquire, manage, and evaluate their law firm—and has been very influential in shaping how we think about client service today.
Join us today for a fascinating conversation on: - How Michael's love of music helped him learn how to become a great writer. - The impact of “the great resignation” on client relationships. - His number one tip to improve client service post-pandemic.
Today’s guest is Stephanie Corey, a true pioneer in the field of legal operations. She started her career in business and finance, but became the first legal ops professional in Silicon Valley when she assumed that role for HP. She then co-founded and is a former executive member of the leading legal operations trade organization CLOC—the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium. Today Stephanie is a co-founder of UpLevel Ops, a consulting firm specializing in providing services for in-house legal departments and law firms.
Join us as we explore: - The evolution of legal operations—from budgeting to a true business focus for legal. - How the culture at HP created the perfect conditions for innovation in the law department. - The role of serendipity in driving change.
Today’s guest is Jordan Furlong, a legal industry analyst who has been writing, thinking, and speaking about the intersection of law and business for more than 20 years. As the mastermind behind Law21, he is on the constant lookout for critical new developments and emerging patterns in the legal services ecosystem. He uses these insights to advise legal organizations on how to plan their strategies and achieve their goals.
Listen in as we discuss: • Jordan’s fascinating take on “lawyer formation”—the education and development of practicing lawyers. • What he sees as the gaps in training, and how those influenced his own path in the industry. • How Jordan is working toward a better future for the legal profession and the society it serves, and why it takes persistence, politeness, and understanding.
Today we welcome back our first two-time guest, the one and only Susan Hackett, for another enjoyable discussion about life, law, and business. For those of you who don’t know her, Susan is the CEO of Legal Executive Leadership, LLC, and was vice president and general counsel of the Association of Corporate Counsel (ACC) for more than 20 years. While at the ACC, she presided over the creation of the Value Challenge, designed to recognize the in-house teams and outside counsel who are driving value in legal spending. Today Susan is part of a number of entrepreneurial pursuits focused on the improvement of the legal profession.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn about: • Susan’s take on the evolving role of the general counsel in in-house legal departments. • Her recent work on programming for In-House Focus. • The ramifications of a different mindset by the GC—and what that means for service providers.
Today's guest has a fascinating in-house role, and is a leading voice for the LGBTQ+ community in the legal industry. Wesley Bizzell serves as senior assistant general counsel and managing director of Political Law and Ethics Programs, External Affairs for Altria Client Services, Inc. He oversees a comprehensive compliance program covering the regulation of government affairs, providing advice and guidance on political law compliance for more than 75 jurisdictions. Just as important for our purposes, Wesley is incredibly active in promoting diversity and inclusion within the legal and corporate communities. He is a founding member and serves on the steering committee for Altria’s LGBTQ+ employee research group, and is the immediate past president of the National LGBTQ+ Bar Association.
Join us as we talk: - All things in-house. - How the pandemic affected his work. - LGBTQ+ inclusion.
To celebrate the one-year anniversary of Pioneers and Pathfinders, we present this “best of” episode, featuring our first guest, Dr. Heidi Gardner.
Dr. Gardner is a distinguished fellow at Harvard Law School’s Center on the Legal Profession and faculty chair of the school’s Accelerated Leadership Program and Sector Leadership Masterclass. She is also the best-selling author of Smart Collaboration and noted thought leader on the topics of collaboration, lateral hiring, in-house legal teams, leadership, and performance.
Dr. Gardner’s work creates a roadmap for collaboration among lawyers who are by both disposition and training, highly autonomous. Listen in for a discussion of how working virtually has enhanced collaboration, the specific barriers to collaboration in legal, and the erosion of trust during the pandemic. We hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did.
Today's guest is Matthew Stubenberg. Matthew is the associate director of legal technology at Harvard Law School's Access to Justice Lab, and president of MDLegalApps. Early on in his career, he recognized the power of pairing technology with public service, and he committed himself to exploring that potential. Shortly after graduating from the University of Maryland Law School, Matthew created a number of technology applications that increased access to justice for thousands of Marylanders and helped many thousands more navigate the Maryland court system and public court records, surfacing data that has been used to defend clients and shape reform measures.
Listen in to learn more about: - Matthew's path in legal technology. - Why he is a firm believer that lawyers should learn to code.
Today's guest is Laura Safdie. Laura is the chief operating officer at Casetext, whose products include the number one-rated legal research platform Casetext Research, an all-in-one research and drafting print platform Compose, and Parallel Search, which offers the first application of concept-based search for the law. Laura joined Casetext after stints at Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, the US Senate Judiciary Committee, and a clerkship in the US District Court for the Southern District of New York. Like a number of our past guests, she graduated from Yale Law School and later made the leap from Big Law to the legal tech startup life. Laura currently sits on the advisory board of OneJustice, a California legal aid nonprofit. She provides strategic guidance in the development and implementation of OneJustice’s innovative programs and in OneJustice’s growth.
Join us as we talk about: - Why Laura chose a career in law. - How she made the jump from Big Law to the startup world. - All of the exciting things that Casetext is doing.
Today we have the distinct honor of being joined by Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack. Her passion for access to justice has been a constant throughout her career in public service. Immediately out of law school in New York, she joined the Legal Aid Society and the Office of the Appellate Defender. As a professor at the University of Michigan Law School, she launched a number of clinics devoted to domestic violence, pediatric health, mediation, low income taxpayers, human trafficking, and juvenile justice. The Michigan Innocence Clinic, which she founded—and in which students represent wrongfully convicted Michiganders—has exonerated more than 22 people so far, and has shined a light on the important justice issues underlying wrongful conviction. She joined the Michigan Supreme Court in January 2013, and became chief justice in January 2019. Since joining the court, Chief Justice McCormack continues to teach at the law school and continues to speak out on important issues around the access to justice problem in our society.
Listen in to today's discussion to hear: - Her thoughts on the access to justice challenge and how we can bridge the gap. - Why judges should be agents for justice system reform.
Throughout the year, we highlight episodes of Pioneers and Pathfinders that deserve a second (or third) listen. This month, as we celebrate Black History Month, we are revisiting our interview with Laurie Robinson Haden, founder of Corporate Counsel Women of Color (CCWC). Today, CCWC provides an important platform for Black women attorneys to network and forge successful career paths in law.
Laurie Robinson Haden is an award-winning lawyer and agent of change who personifies the pioneering spirit that defines this podcast. During a nearly 20-year stint in various leadership roles in CBS’s law department, she founded CCWC, the largest and most influential professional organization of its kind. What started as an informal group of friends exchanging contact information in 2004 has now become a powerhouse network of nearly 5,000 women of color devoted to empowering one another and lifting one another up. Seyfarth is proud to have played a role in the early days by helping Laurie set the organization up as a 501(c)(3), and the firm is proud to call her an alum, as well.
Listen in to today’s conversation to get a feel for Laurie’s infectious energy as we discuss: - The need for an organization like CCWC—especially for first-generation women lawyers of color. - Her advice for getting buy-in and support from employers for diversity initiatives, and why people shouldn’t be afraid to walk away when they don’t get it. - What’s next for CCWC as it turns focus from the chief legal officers space to the boardroom.
Long before the nonstop stressors of the last two years, Jeena Cho was a vocal advocate for the well-being of lawyers. It started when she realized how meditation and mindfulness could help her deal with the stress of practicing bankruptcy law. Since that time, her message about the urgency of wellness for lawyers has resonated throughout the industry, thanks in large part to her best-selling book, The Anxious Lawyer. She is a regular contributor to legal and traditional media, and she also speaks and offers training and workshops to law firms and bar associations around the country.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn about: - Jeena’s journey to law—which was inspired by a long-running TV show. - How her meditation practice started. - When she realized mindfulness had broader application to the well-being issues facing legal professionals, and how it can make the profession more inclusive.
Today’s guest is Professor Dan Katz, a scientist, technologist, and educator who applies innovative approaches to teaching law. His goal is to help create lawyers for today's biggest societal challenges by integrating science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. Dan’s programs at Michigan State University College of Law and Illinois Tech Chicago-Kent College of Law have produced some of the most innovative lawyers practicing and working in the business of law today. He is also actively involved in the rapidly growing legal technology industry. Dan is the co-founder and chief strategy officer of LexPredict, and he also serves as a formal and informal advisor to a number of legal tech startups.
Listen in to today’s conversation to hear: - How Dan’s experience as a kicker in college prepared him for law school. - His pride in seeing one of his former students on the Nasdaq live stream in Times Square. - Why the worst thing a legal tech entrepreneur can do is take too much money.
Today’s guest is Jayne Reardon, executive director of the Illinois Supreme Court Commission on Professionalism, which promotes a more civil, professional, and inclusive legal culture in the state. In her nearly 16 years at the commission, Jayne has overseen a growing roster of initiatives rooted in civility, including programs on ethics, diversity, well-being, and the future of law. These programs are united by her belief that the legal profession can and should do better in meeting the legal needs of consumers by unlocking the underutilized potential of attorneys.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn: - How Jayne’s approach to the issues facing the profession are shaped by her prior experience as a successful trial lawyer. - What she sees as the barriers to civility in the profession. - How a focus on civility can increase access to justice.
Today we are joined by Bea Seravello and Brad Blickstein, leaders of new law advisory services at Baretz+Brunelle, a strategic communications and digital marketing agency. Bea and Brad bring complementary experiences to their roles. Bea is a longtime business of law leader at top Am Law firms, and Brad is a renowned legal industry futurist. Most recently, they released a two-part report on innovation adoption in law firms, which provided fascinating insights on the current rates of adoption—spoiler alert: the numbers are low—and case studies on successful adoption from a number of large law firms. Seyfarth is honored to have been profiled.
Listen in to today's conversation to learn more about: - How Bea and Brad’s individual journeys intersected and culminated in the founding of B+B’s new law advisory practice. - How their experiences complement each other. - Their specific insights on innovation adoption in law firms.
Isabel Parker has long been a leader in pushing boundaries and driving change in the legal profession. She started her career as an associate at Freshfields, and after a brief break, she rejoined the firm to lead legal services. Isabel eventually took on the role of chief legal innovation officer, where she was part of the leadership team driving the firm's digital transformation initiative. During that time, she spearheaded the formation of Freshfields’ legal services center in Manchester, a first of its kind captive ALSP. Today, Isabel is the executive director of the Digital Legal Exchange, a nonprofit whose mission is to enable legal leaders to deliver measurable commercial value to the business and its customers. If that isn't enough, she recently authored a book, Successful Digital Transformation in Law Firms: A Question of Culture.
Listen in to today's conversation to learn more about: - Isabel's fascinating journey from Magic Circle associate to head of innovation. - How her journey informed her take on the digital transformation of law firms. - Her advice for how to achieve the firmwide mindset change required to drive transformation.
Today’s guest is Basha Rubin, CEO and co-founder of Priori Legal, a global legal marketplace that helps in-house teams find the right legal provider for their next project. She founded Priori with classmate Mirra Levitt immediately upon graduation from Yale Law School, and they never looked back. Last year, Priori raised $6.3 million in Series A financing from leading investors in legal technology, and their growth continues to be fueled by demand resulting from the pandemic.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn: - Why Basha chose the path of the entrepreneur instead of practice—and why she chose to found a technology company. - How Priori uses technology and data to drive better outside counsel hiring decisions in the $800 billion business of legal services. - The factors driving demand for alternative approaches, such as those offered by Priori and its newest product, Scout. - The specific questions posed to women entrepreneurs by investors, and Basha’s advice for how to answer them.
Joy Heath Rush has spent virtually her entire career supporting lawyers, and has had a leading role in defining the value of allied professionals. Her career path started at Sidley Austin in document services, where her devotion to excellence and love of technology helped her move into a number of leadership roles. After a stint at Litera, Joy is now CEO of the International Legal Technology Association (ILTA)—what she calls her dream job.
Listen in to today's conversation to learn: - Why she loves working with lawyers. - How Joy’s role as CEO of ILTA is the culmination of all her professional experiences. - How COVID-19 has transformed the delivery of content. - The advice she gives to allied professionals who want the career longevity she has had.
Today we continue our exploration of the efforts underway to close the justice gap with our guest, John Mayer, the executive director of the Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Instruction (CALI) at Chicago-Kent, the law school of the Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT). One of CALI’s key projects is A2J Author, a software tool that enables nontechnical stakeholders from the courts, legal services programs, and law schools to rapidly build and implement user-friendly interfaces for document assembly. A2J Guided Interviews remove many of the barriers faced by self-represented litigants, allowing them to easily complete court documents. It is a testament to how law, design, and technology working together can close the justice gap.
Listen in to today’s conversation with John to learn: - Why an engineer by education and self-described systems thinker chose to stay “law adjacent” rather than embarking on the chief information officer path. - How John’s participation in a joint project of Kent Law School and the Institute of Design at IIT on self-represented litigants laid the groundwork for A2J Author. - And why John believes automating court forms is one of the best ways for law students to learn the law.
The justice gap is one of the most serious issues facing our country. Of low-income Americans experiencing civil legal problems, the vast majority receive inadequate or no legal help at all. This gap is the result of overlapping issues facing the legal industry: the cost of law school, the complexity of our justice system, and the slow adoption of technology by lawyers and the courts, among others.
Our guest today is David Stern, a legal industry pioneer who has spent the majority of his career addressing the justice gap. He is executive director of Equal Justice Works, an organization committed to mobilizing passionate public service leaders. Under David’s leadership, Equal Justice Works has grown to become the nation’s largest facilitator of opportunities in public interest law. The organization has facilitated more than 2,500 public interest fellowships, with 85% of fellows remaining in public service.
Listen in to today’s conversation to hear: - How educational debt has increased the justice gap—and what Equal Justice Works has done to make it easier for students with debt to choose public service jobs. - How a child of a professional muckraker went from law school to clerkship, to a brief stint in practice; and how a chance encounter on the other side of the planet led him to Equal Justice Works. - Why today’s law students have such an appetite for public service; and inspiring success stories of Equal Justice Works fellows.
Today’s guest is librarian, lawyer, knowledge management, computer programmer, blogger, and podcaster Renaissance man Greg Lambert. Like so many of our multihyphenate guests, he is a very busy man. Many of you will know Greg from the long-running 3 Geeks and a Law Blog, which was founded in 2008 and is one of the first blogs to focus on what we now think of as “the business of law.” Greg also co-hosts The Geek In Review podcast, which dives into the world of legal information professionals. If that wasn’t enough, Greg also has a day job as chief knowledge services officer at Jackson Walker. He thinks of himself as a "connector" who puts the spotlight on the innovative folks in our industry and connects them with others who have similar goals. Today, we put the spotlight on Greg, to learn more about his unique journey.
Listen in as we talk shop about podcasting, geek out over guests, and learn a little about how Greg is innovating the role of law librarian.
Today’s guest is Laurie Robinson Haden, an award-winning lawyer and agent of change who personifies the pioneering spirit that defines this podcast. During a nearly 20-year stint in various leadership roles in CBS’s law department, she founded Corporate Counsel Women of Color (CCWC), the largest and most influential professional organization of its kind. What started as an informal group of friends exchanging contact information in 2004 has now become a powerhouse network of nearly 5,000 women of color devoted to empowering one another and lifting one another up. Seyfarth is proud to have played a role in the early days by helping Laurie set the organization up as a 501(c)(3), and the firm is proud to call her an alum, as well.
Listen in to today’s conversation to get a feel for Laurie’s infectious energy as we discuss: - The need for an organization like CCWC—especially for first-generation women lawyers of color. - Her advice for getting buy-in and support from employers for diversity initiatives, and why people shouldn’t be afraid to walk away when they don’t get it. - What’s next for CCWC as it turns focus from the chief legal officers space to the boardroom.
Note: Pioneers and Pathfinders will be taking the week of Thanksgiving off. We hope you enjoy the holiday with your friends and family. We will be back on December 1.
We've had a number of guests from legal education who are helping law students find and forge alternative career paths that prioritize business skills alongside legal. Today's guest, Amani Smathers, is among the first generation of young lawyers to embark on one of these new—some might say non-traditional—career paths being forged. In fact, when Amani was still a law student, she introduced the industry to the concept of the T-shaped lawyer, which combines breadth in business skills with depth in legal knowledge. This idea has stuck and changed the discourse around lawyer professional skills development. Today, Amani is a senior practice innovations specialist on the Chapman Cutler Practice Innovations team focusing on process improvement, workflow management, and turning data into actionable insights. If that's not enough on her plate, Amani is also paying it forward as an adjunct professor at the Center for Law, Technology & Innovation at Michigan State University College of Law. She’s doing incredible, award-winning work, and Seyfarth is proud to call her an alum.
Listen in as we talk about: - How free pizza changed the trajectory of her career. - How the concept of the T-shaped lawyer has evolved since 2014. - Why technology and process design are so important for access to justice.
Thanks to Michael Lewis, we all know the term “Moneyball.” Very few people actually apply those concepts though. Today’s guest, Caren Ulrich Stacy, has used the Moneyball concept to change the demographics of law firms and the face of law firm leadership. Informed by her education as a journalist and her work with top law firms on their talent strategies, Caren co-founded Lawyer Metrics, a startup company that pioneered a data-driven approach to lawyer recruitment and development. From there, Caren created Diversity Lab to focus exclusively on closing the gender gap and increasing diversity and inclusion in the legal field. The success of Diversity Lab’s marquee program—Mansfield Certification—is a testament to how an ongoing commitment to change and measurement of outcomes can solve the toughest problems facing our profession.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn: - How Caren’s journey in law started at birth—literally. - The three things that contribute to law firm associate satisfaction, and why money isn’t one of them. - The big, audacious goal Caren has set for OnRamp Fellowship to more than double the number of women brought back to full-time law firm work.
David Cambria is known as the “godfather of legal operations,” a moniker he earned in-house at giants Aon and ADM, and the name has followed him ever since. He is unique in that he has also held roles at the world’s largest law firm as chief services officer, and is currently at one of the Big Four accounting firms as managing director of legal operations, overseeing “modern legal.” David is someone who has been a leader on every side of the value equation. In today’s conversation, we learn how his experiences have coalesced into his current view on the profession and the legal marketplace.
Listen in to discover: - Specific challenges David encountered along the way, and how he gained acceptance for the concept of legal operations within massive organizations. - How in-house legal leaders should sort the options in an increasingly diverse marketplace. - What is meant by “modern legal,” and how he hopes to achieve it.
Today our guest is self-described “sociologist of lawyers,” Marcie Borgal Shunk. She has a fascinating multidisciplinary background that she brings to her work with the Tilt Institute, which offers analytics, leadership training and coaching, cultural assessments, and more to help law firms transform their businesses.
Initially intrigued by the question of why some firms perform better than others, Marcie has spun her skills in analytics, statistics, and data visualization into a fascinating body of work. She’s a great example of how people from disciplines beyond law are changing the legal ecosphere.
Listen in to hear: - How Marcie uses data to get firms to think differently about their market opportunities, their strategies, their talent pool, and more. - The process she employs to help people understand how to connect the dots between the data and the application of the data. - The three types of data that are crucial to understanding law firm performance, and why they are so difficult to leverage.
Today's guest, David Wilkins, is one of the foremost thinkers on the legal profession today. Though he’s had many significant roles and accomplishments in the legal field, his resume doesn't capture his inspirational story or the enormity of his contributions to the profession. Nor does it captures his intellect, quick wit, warm personality, or joyful presence. He’s without a doubt the most recognizable voice in the legal industry today.
Listen in to our conversation to hear about: - David’s journey from the South Side of Chicago as the son and grandson of Black lawyers, to his clerkship with Thurgood Marshall, and eventual decision to enter teaching at Harvard. - How he thinks lawyers can help solve the huge problems facing humanity, against a backdrop of looming generational change, digitization, and technology. - Why he thinks the legal profession needs a more sophisticated focus on the care and development of our people in the same way as many other industries are doing.
As buyers of legal services, in-house counsel are in a powerful position when it comes to legal industry innovation. Today’s guest, Kristen Cook, has used that position to do remarkable things as vice president and deputy general counsel at 7-Eleven. Kristen has been at the forefront of transforming how legal services are procured, how services are delivered back to the organization, and using Lean to improve legal operations. Her work has been recognized across the industry, including two ACC Value Champion awards which recognize how value is enhanced through the use of people, processes, technology, and data innovations.
Listen in to hear: - How Lean Six Sigma shaped Kristen's career path and inspired her approach to legal operations. - The role of data in creating value for her department and for 7-Eleven. - How Kristen plans on integrating lessons of COVID-19 to create the cutting-edge legal department of the future.
Today’s guest is a longtime friend of Seyfarth, Susan Lambreth. Susan is a founding principal at LawVision and is nationally recognized as one of the top leadership, practice group, and project management consultants for law firms. She is also the chair and founder of the LPM Institute, a leading resource for educating law firms and law departments on implementing project management in their organizations.
Susan has been extremely influential in shaping the business of Big Law for many years now. She is one of the true trailblazers of legal project management, and many of today’s law firm project management offices can trace their origins back to her pioneering work. In fact, Seyfarth teamed up with Susan in the early 2000s, as we were strengthening our practice group structure.
Listen in to today’s conversation to learn more about: - Susan’s take on how project management and process improvement are related, but different skill sets, and how they interact with one another in today's environment. - What types of people are taking on the LPM role and the experience they bring to the table. - And what the current war for allied professional talent says about the industry.
Today’s guest is a departure from our typical slate of legal industry change agents. Over the course of 23 interviews, we have focused on the unique journeys of our guests, which is—by its nature—a backward-looking endeavor. Join us as we take a look into the future with world-renowned futurist Ross Dawson, to help shed light on the path ahead.
Ross recently joined Seyfarth for an exclusive conversation on The Future of the World of Work. During part one of this special two-part series, he discussed the big trends shaping the future of workforces. In part two of the conversation, Seyfarth attorneys will focus on the legal implications and issues that organizations should consider as workplaces evolve.
Until then, listen to today's episode to learn: - What Ross means by "the individual economy" and why this means organizations should give workers more choices. - What the shift to remote work means in terms of the way we think about ourselves as workers, as humans, and as connected individuals. - And why Ross continues to be an optimist about the future, even at a time when technology is exacerbating polarization.
Today’s guest is the one and only Bill Henderson. In his day job, he’s a professor of law at Indiana University Maurer School of Law where he holds the Stephen F. Burns Chair on the Legal Profession. Bill is a prolific writer and speaker on the legal market who is well known for assembling some of the best and brightest thinkers on the legal industry in his blog, Legal Evolution.
Bill has been a longtime friend of Seyfarth, and he's worked with the firm on our own innovation journey.
Listen in to today’s conversation to hear: - How Bill's outsider perspective as a firefighter and paramedic shaped his career in the law and colored his assessment of law firm hierarchy. - How a simple proposal to teach a class on the business of law firms in 2003 revolutionized the law firm curriculum. - And why he thinks the legal market today is a lot like the automotive market of the turn of the 20th century.
Long before the pandemic raised the curtain on issues of workplace flexibility, today’s guest was leading the way in changing how law firms think about flexibility, and how they can best use it to drive performance, productivity, and innovation.
Manar Morales is president and CEO of the Diversity & Flexibility Alliance—a think tank dedicated to helping organizations create inclusive cultures that advance diversity and flexibility in order to attract and retain top talent.
Seyfarth has long supported the mission of DFA. In 2020, Seyfarth had the honor of receiving DFA’s Tipping the Scales Award. And in 2016, when our host Steve Poor was chair of the firm, DFA gave him the Flex Leader Award in recognition of his leadership in creating a more diverse and inclusive workplace through holistic flexibility. More recently, Seyfarth has partnered with DFA on The Belonging Project, a national effort to combat the impact of COVID-19 on diversity in the profession.
Listen to learn:
-Why Manar uses the term “holistic flexibility” to differentiate between the “reduced hours” approach to flexibility traditionally used by many firms.
-Why she says flexibility must be de-gendered, de-parented, and destigmatized.
-What advice Manar gives to her clients as they contemplate implementing hybrid work policies into work models based on co-location.
While we give our guests a summer break, Steve shares some of his favorite moments from the podcast so far, and some thoughts from his own journey that were triggered by the conversations with our guests.
Today's episode is on the topic of the pioneering journey itself. By revisiting our past interviews, we will explore the commonalities among the paths of our guests and see what lessons can be extracted for our own journeys. In many ways, each one of our guests has followed the beat of their own drummer. Yet, in listening to their various stories, certain patterns begin to emerge. Some, like Steve, have followed a more traditional trajectory, using that trajectory to change the way we think about the delivery of legal services from inside the system. Others have started on what appears to be a traditional path, but at some point veered into other directions, becoming legal tech startup founders, alternative service provider pioneers, and change agents in other parts of the legal ecosphere.
Today, we will hear highlights of our guests’ journeys, with emphasis on:
- The “aha” moment that can send careers in a different direction.
- The role of curiosity and an abiding interest in improving the way things work.
- The incredibly simple belief that can unlock entirely new ways of thinking, doing things, and new ways to transform the profession.
Be sure to listen to the end for three key takeaways that pioneers can use at any point of their journey.
Quoted guests include: Jacqueline Schafer Jason Barnwell Alex Su Christian Lang Cat Moon Dan Linna Heidi Gardner Jae Um
While we give our guests a summer break, Pioneers and Pathfinders will release three recap episodes in August with highlights from our first 22 episodes. In each recap, Steve will share some of his favorite moments from the podcast so far, and some thoughts from his own journey that were triggered by the conversations with our guests.
In today’s second recap, Steve takes a deep dive into the role of storytelling in the innovation journey. If you've ever read a book to a child or become immersed in a fictional world, you know the power of storytelling and the impact it has on people. The impact isn’t just the product of pictures and words. Stories are a tool for passing on knowledge and cultural values and norms. For pioneers specifically, they can be used to explore and resolve conflict, to make novel ideas more accessible, to build strong memories, and to reduce resistance and anxiety. That's why many of our Pioneers and Pathfinders guests have tended to be excellent storytellers and make such fantastic guests. And for a podcast about personal journeys, it's not surprising that storytelling has been a theme.
Listen to this episode for:
-How storytelling creates heroes—and why you should make systematic storytelling a part of your change management program -Using storytelling to increase engagement by connecting effort to results -Leveraging the natural traits of the lawyer for more effective storytelling -Why knowing your audience is the most important first step -Why lawyers need to move from storytelling to marketing to selling -Using storytelling to build a community and shine a light on the path forward
Quoted guests include:
-Jason Barnwell -Jae Um -Dr. Larry Richard -Alex Su -Michele DeStefano -Joe Borstein
While we give our guests a summer break, Pioneers and Pathfinders will release three recap episodes in August with highlights from our first 22 episodes. In each recap, Steve wills hare some of his favorite moments from the podcast so far, and some thoughts from his own journey that were triggered by the conversations with our guests. For our first recap, we explore the topic of innovation itself—a concept that came up frequently, given our focus on pioneers and pathfinders. In light of how how much has changed in the last two years, many of our guests mused on the meaning of the word "innovation," how their work has evolved, and where the industry should go next. At at time when the practice of law looks very different—at least at a superficial level—what does it mean to be innovative? Are there more innovative techniques being deployed now? And how can we become more innovative, both as a profession, and as individuals? Listen to this episode for: • The definition of innovation in 2021 • The role of problem definition in innovation • Why innovation is everyone's job • Tips and tools for becoming more innovative This recap features highlights of our interviews with the following guests. Listen to their full episodes for more insights.
Dr. Heidi Gardner Cat Moon Jae Um Jason Barnwell Lucy Bassli Susan Hackett Nicole Bradick Michle DeStefano
When we use the term “pioneer” in the name of this podcast, we're talking about those who blazed a trail for others to follow and hopefully improve upon. No one fits that description better than today's guest, Jeff Carr. While GC of FMC Technologies, Jeff launched the ACES program—what was then a novel way of pricing legal services. Now, he’s in what he calls “R3" status: recently re-retired. It's really not surprising that someone with a career as varied as Jeff’s, and with as many diverse interests, would have a hard time with traditional retirement, but over the years, he’s had several general counsel jobs and had an extensive career as a lawyer. Jeff has been a leading advocate for efficiency, process, and legal service delivery. Like so many of our guests, he has had a fascinating path, following many interests—from music, to nuclear war theory, and now, racecar driving. Listen in to today's conversation to hear how learning that he wouldn't make partner was a cathartic moment, how his wife kept him from joining the JAG corps, how he used his leverage as GC to demand change from outside counsel, and why you'll never hear him use the word “client.”
Our guest today is Joe Borstein. Joe has been on the leading edge of change in the industry for many years, and today, he is the founder of LexFusion, a new collaborative venture among some of the biggest names in legal tech and outsourcing. LexFusion is born of Joe’s experience as both a lawyer and entrepreneur, with a goal of accelerating the adoption of technology within corporate legal departments and law firms. They will accomplish this by transforming a lengthy—and sometimes brutal—sales cycle into one that's simpler and easier. Joe calls it “a one-stop shop for high-end legal innovation.” He’s had a fascinating career path. The son of lawyers, Joe never doubted that he would follow the same path of his parents. He practiced law for six years before making the leap to Pangea3, a model for legal service delivery that was, at the time, extremely outside the norm for law firms. From the beginning, Joe posited that the growth of LPOs and ALSPs would not shrink the legal market, but grow it. Ten years later, we can't say he's wrong. In today's conversation, we talk about what it was like to put together and launch a business during the pandemic, building trust in a virtual environment, the changing mindset of the purchases of legal services, and how LexFusion chooses its member companies.
Today's guest followed her passion for persuasive writing from the courtroom to legal technology. Jackie Schafer is a former Paul Weiss litigator, in-house counsel, assistant attorney general, and serial entrepreneur. Today, she is the founder of Clearbrief, an AI-powered legal writing tool, which recently received $1.2 million in outside funding from big venture capital names Sequoia Capital and Madrona Venture Group. Her company has also received backing from Avvo founder Mark Britton and a number of other investors associated with companies as diverse as Grubhub, Workday, and Tableau. Listen in to today's conversation to learn more about Jackie's path, how her work on an immigration asylum case led to her passion for evidence-based storytelling, and her vision for how Clearbrief can transform the legal writing process and the justice system.
Long before unicorns were trending in popular culture, Lucy Bassli was thinking about “unicorn lawyers.” In her role as assistant general counsel at Microsoft overseeing contract management systems and procurement, she had a unique view into how process and technology can improve service delivery. Today, she has spun these unicorn lawyer traits into a trailblazing career as founder, advisor, speaker, and author. Lucy is the founder of InnoLaw Group, a legal service provider and consultant to law firms and in-house legal teams on a variety of innovation initiatives. She is also the chief legal strategist at LawGeex, a legal startup that automates contract review services with artificial intelligence. Listen in to today's conversation to learn more about how Microsoft's culture of empowerment and trust influenced Lucy's growth, how in-house work allows unicorn lawyers to flourish, and the massive impact of last year on legal innovation.
FisherBroyles is an overnight success that’s been 20 years in the making. Founders and managing partners James Fisher and Kevin Broyles have a lot to celebrate: the firm just entered the Am Law 200 with a 14% increase in revenue over 2019, and the addition of 51 partners in 2020. This is notable because FisherBroyles has no offices, no associates, and no secretaries—what James calls, “the headwinds of profitability.” As such, it's the first distributed firm to crack big law ranks, and a truly transformative take on the business of law. At a time when firms are deciding what their new normal looks like, James and Kevin are sticking with the status quo they established when they founded their firm in 2002, and they have aggressive plans for growth. Founded during the tech bubble implosion of the early aughts, FisherBroyles has survived and thrived through two eras of mass disruption for law firms: the recession in 2008-09, and now the pandemic. In today's conversation, learn how James and Kevin met and spent their days during the tech bubble implosion, why they don't consider FisherBroyles a “virtual” firm, and how the “perfect storm” of COVID-19 and their entry into Am Law 200 is setting the stage for their plans for future growth.
Today’s guests are Bryan Parker and Jonathan Greenblatt, founders of Legal Innovators, an alternative legal service provider designed to solve two of the toughest problems facing the profession: the training of junior legal talent, and diversity and inclusion. Their goal is to change the value proposition of junior legal talent for law firms and in-house teams, without sacrificing quality. They do this through a combination of training, mentoring, pricing, and flexible placements. Bryan and Jonathan have a friendship of more than 25 years, which began when they were both working at Shearman and Sterling. In today’s interview, we learn how that experience shaped their business model, how mentoring benefits all parties involved, and why diversity matters more now than ever.
Today’s guest is Lucy Ricca, Fellow at the Stanford Center on the Legal Profession and the Executive Director of the Utah Office of Legal Services Innovation. In that role, she has helped Utah’s Supreme Court build its legal regulatory sandbox, through which entities may use new models for legal businesses and offer new kinds of legal services to Utah’s public. It’s a fascinating model where economic regulations governing lawyers can be relaxed, data gathered, and policy improved. Listen in to today’s interview to hear all about the origin of the Utah regulatory sandbox, how Lucy got involved, and to learn more about the types of entities that have been approved to operate there.
Dan Rodriguez is the Harold Washington Professor at Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law, having previously served as dean January 2012 through August 2018. In that role, he was instrumental in bringing an interdisciplinary focus to the law school curriculum. Dan has also advocated for the law-business-technology interface as chair of the ABA Center for Innovation. In today’s episode, learn how Dan appeals to lawyers’ self-interest and selflessness to break down barriers, and how science and medicine can provide a model for the future of the profession.
Bruce MacEwen and Janet Stanton are president and partner, respectively, of Adam Smith, Esq., a consultancy serving law firms and a long-running blog on the economics of law firms. They combine their wealth of experience in economics, business, and law to help firms better prepare for tomorrow. After not knowing what to expect going into the pandemic, Bruce and Janet have found their business booming over the last year, as firms grappled with the fallout and people adapted to a new way of working. Join us for a discussion about how 2020 differs from the economic consequences of the 2008 recession, the potential impact from the “Cambrian explosion” of the pandemic, and what big firms offer that clients are willing to pay top dollar for.
Today, our guest is Michele DeStefano, a professor; author; speaker; and independent consultant on innovation, technology, culture, and cross-practice, cross-border initiatives. Before entering the legal ecosphere, she had a career in advertising and marketing for some ubiquitous brand names. Michele brings that experience to her work with lawyers and legal teams, helping them to identify problems, design solutions, and use storytelling for buy-in and adoption. Listen in to our conversation to learn why Michele thinks lawyers should go to marketing school, why getting everyone on the same problem plane is so critical to innovation efforts, and to hear about the unique work she is doing with Law Without Walls and the Digital Legal Exchange.
Today’s guest is Mark Cohen, a pioneer in every sense of the word. He is the CEO of Legal Mosaic, a legal business consultancy that provides strategic advice to corporate legal departments, law firms, legal service providers, legal networks, entrepreneurs, and law schools. He is a co-Founder and Executive Chairman of The Digital Legal Exchange, a unique, global, not-for-profit organization created to teach, apply, and scale digital principles to the legal function. Mark is passionate about modernizing legal education/training and bridging the gap between the Academy and the marketplace. He has been a regular contributor to Forbes, writing on the global legal marketplace. Mark was also a founder of Clearspire, one of the first virtual law firms. Join Steve and Mark for a fascinating conversation about how the digital legal transformation is upon the profession and how we can teach business concepts to a new generation of lawyers.
Dr. Larry Richard is the founder of LawyerBrain, a management consulting firm that helps law firms address issues related to leadership, motivation, talent management, and managing change. Dr. Richard was among the first to apply the scientific principles of human behavior to the personality traits of lawyers. His work validates what those in the legal industry already know intuitively. Lawyers are highly autonomous, skeptical, and analytical—traits that frequently pose a barrier to innovation efforts. On the flip side, his work opens the door for new ways for lawyers to build resilience, empathy, and social connection—necessary traits for dealing with the large-scale changes set in motion by the pandemic. In today’s fascinating conversation, Steve and Dr. Richard discuss how lawyers fared over the last year of lockdown, and what new ways of working and thinking we can expect to stay with us into the future.
Alex Su is a lawyer turned legal technologist whose non-traditional career path has been shaped by his talent for building community. In fact, since we recorded this interview, Alex has moved into a new role with Ironclad as their Head of Community Development. We couldn’t think of a better title for someone whose social media posts get people talking to each other. Through his transparency, humor, and vulnerability, Alex has been able to shed light on many of the “wicked problems” facing the legal ecosphere - and inspire others to join him on TikTok. Listen in as we discuss what he calls the “failed experiments” that shaped his path, the self-awareness required to leave big law, and why not being detail oriented isn’t the end of the world.
Christian Lang loved being a lawyer. But after several years of practice, he could not resist the lure of legal tech as a source of community and continuous improvement for the profession. This led to his creation of the NY Legal Tech Meetup which now has more than 1500 members. Today, Christian is Head of Strategy at Reynan Court, a marketplace for legal technology. In that role, he brings his talent for community building to the application vendors, firms, and in-house departments that use the Reynen Court platform. Join us for a wide ranging conversation that covers his early days on political campaigns, to corporate big law, and finally his current stint in legal tech. Learn how Christian brings his passion for grassroots organizing and self-described “builder personality” to everything he does.
Today’s guest is Jae Um. Jae runs a market insights company called Six Parsecs, and serves as an advisor to a number of legal tech companies as a self-described “supertemp.” Prior to unbundling her career, Jae spent many years in Big Law, including a six year stint at Seyfarth. Since launching her company, Jae has become well-known in the industry for her sharp insights, and unique approach to visual storytelling. Listen in to today’s podcast to learn how and why she picked the companies she is working with today, why she decided not to become a lawyer, and the unique advantages that insurgent providers are bringing to the legal landscape.
Like many of those changing the industry, Cat Moon has a long and multilayered CV. She’s a lawyer. She’s a lecturer at Vanderbilt. She’s a writer and speaker. She’s an organizer. But getting to know Cat in conversation reveals a unique point-of-view that no traditional CV can capture. In a wide ranging discussion that moves from how Cat navigated teaching during the pandemic, to the work she’s doing with Design Your Delta, this self-described “curious lawyer” shares her thoughts on how empathy will change the shape of the profession, and why we need to think beyond the client in the delivery of services.
After three decades of working at the intersection of law and business, today’s guest almost needs no introduction. Susan Hackett is currently the CEO of Legal Executive Leadership, LLC, and has had a wide ranging career as senior vice president and general counsel of the ACC for more than 20 years. While at the ACC, she presided over the creation of the Value Challenge to recognize the in-house teams and outside counsel who are driving value in legal spending, in addition to strategic initiatives in legal operations, pro bono, and diversity. Today, Susan is part of a number entrepreneurial pursuits focused on the improvement of the legal profession. Listen in for how this self-described “extrovert” stays stimulated and energetic, insights from her many years of navigating the unique mindset of lawyers, and the launch of a brand new learning channel for in-house leaders.
Today’s Guest is Jason Barnwell, Associate General Counsel, Modern Corporate, External, and Legal Affairs at Microsoft. In that role, he leads innovation efforts for the law department, as well as Microsoft’s law firm engagement strategy. Jason has an active and vocal thought leadership role on the evolution of the profession, bringing his experience as an engineer to his insights. In his conversation with Steve, Jason reveals the three things he brings to his work from his engineering training, the moment he understood the misalignment of big law incentives with efficiency, and the role of storytelling in change management.
Today’s guest is Dan Linna, Senior Lecturer and Director of Law and Technology Initiatives at Northwestern, a joint appointment in Northwestern Pritzker School of Law and McCormick School of Engineering. He also holds a number of roles at international law schools, and organizations that promote the integration of technology into the profession.
Dan began his career as an information technology manager, developer, and consultant. His work included computerizing and automating business processes, developing dynamic, data-driven websites, and building enterprise information systems. Before moving full time into teaching, Dan was a business, contract, and bankruptcy litigation partner at an Am Law 200 law firm.
Dan brings this multidisciplinary perspective to his thoughts on the industry, and how COVID will change the experience of law students, and the practice itself. Listen to this episode to learn how and why Dan moved from IT to the legal profession, how Dan brings multiple disciplines including law, engineering, and medicine together, and why he thinks quality is the next wave in legal.
For the last few years, legal technology has seen an incredible boom, as more and more companies and entrepreneurs enter the space. Today’s guest, Nicole Bradick, comes from this world. Nicole is the CEO and founder of Theory and Principle, a technology product design and development firm for the legal industry. Like many of our guests, Nicole has had a fascinating journey from former litigator to three-time legal technology entrepreneur. Listen in as Steve and Nicole discuss why and how Nicole transitioned from the courtroom to legal tech founder, get her take on the most critical skill for founders, and how small risks can reap big rewards.
About Theory and Principle Theory and Principle is the premier product design and development firm for the legal industry. T&P’s designers, developers, strategists, and product managers have deep knowledge in both legal technology and the possibilities of emerging technologies. Together, they have built some of the most highly acclaimed digital products in the legal industry in recent years, and are proud to be 100% woman-owned. Theory and Principle has been engaged by clients globally to improve the delivery of legal services, the justice system, lawyer efficiency, legal education, and access to justice for all. They work with clients who are moved to innovate and build to create a better system.
Welcome to the premiere episode of Pioneers and Pathfinders. Today’s guest is Dr. Heidi Gardner, is a Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School’s Center on the Legal Profession and Faculty Chair of the school’s Accelerated Leadership Program and Sector Leadership Masterclass. She is also the best-selling author of Smart Collaboration and noted thought leader on the topics of collaboration, lateral hiring, in-house legal teams, leadership, and performance.
Dr. Gardner couldn’t be more representative of the pioneers and pathfinders this podcast will host. Her life’s work creates a roadmap for collaboration among lawyers who are by both disposition and training, highly autonomous. Dr. Gardner and Steve jump right in with a discussion of how working virtually has enhanced collaboration then move through the genesis of her scholarship, specific barriers to collaboration in legal, and the erosion of trust during the pandemic. We hope you enjoy the conversation as much as we did.
Join our host Steve Poor for a brief behind-the-scenes of our newest podcast Pioneers and Pathfinders. Subscribe today for new episodes weekly.
Highlighted guests include: Dan Linna, Northwestern Law Susan Hackett, Legal Executive Leadership, LLC Jae Um, Six Parsecs Cat Moon, Vanderbilt Law Nicole Bradick, Theory and Principle