After the Deluge: Recent Episodes
Justin Cox
A podcast about songwriting and records currently in Season Two, going album by album through the Bright Eyes discography. Season One is about Jackson Browne and all episodes are available in this feed. Hosted by Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
Get bonus content and support the show: patreon.com/afterthedeluge Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/afterthedeluge/support
Miranda Reinert is a writer, podcaster and zine maker. We talk about making a full-on magazine, Jimmy Montague/Taking Meds, getting ideas out of your head and into the world, The End of Merch?, your double-knee Carhartts are a social signifier, creating something that lasts, tangibility, Grace Robins-Somerville on Hole’s Live Through This, what are you communicating when you post your Last.fm 4x4s and 5x5s?, Miranda’s favorite hockey team, we debut a new segment, The New York Rangers are cringe, The Tampa Bay sports teams can’t fill their stadiums and neither can The Black Keys, we ideate on a Cruise Concert that would kill, and a peek inside of Portable Model, Issue One.
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x.com/mirandareinert
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Do artists get worse with age or can they get more interesting? Behold the Jokermen Mindset.
Ian and Evan of the Jokermen podcast and I talk about approaching music with an empty head, Dylan’s Philosophy of Modern Song, when artists DO just get shittier with age, Albini & Steely Dan, what song would a group of Canadian bachelor party bros sing together over a cliffside?, “mid TV” and boring art, Hackney Diamonds, Steven Hyden, Fountain of Sorrow, Gawker, and the Jackson Browne/Warren Zevon bond. The current season of Jokermen is about The Beach Boys. It's beautiful, go listen.
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This one's not like the others. It's four pals in a room doing an Against Me! song draft while drinking Rainiers and eating junk. It's dumb and wonderful and only on Patreon: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Guests: Ryan Page, RJ Myers, Matt Helms, Justin Cox (me)
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Laura Jane Grace is the songwriter behind Against Me! We discuss meaningless songs, the 7-hour Beatles documentary, she quit horoscopes, big life changes, Travis Barker on Rick Rubin, Operation Ivy reunion vs. Fugazi reunion, hoarding guitars, “Fit But You Know It” by The Streets, Butch Vig gave Laura homework, Franz Ferdinand-core, bitching about the music industry in song, Laura’s favorite Nirvana album, Steve Albini, Tom Petty, naiveté + inexperience + ambition + hard work = good, morning-pages, Yoga with Adriene, Steak Mtn as a pen-pal, Birds Talk Too, touching grass, George Harrison, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Dysphoria Hoodie, not thinking about gender, Lay’s potato chips and Billy Corgan, shredding her voice, relapsing on coffee, movies stink now, plus the current and future state of Against Me!
Laura's new solo record, Hole in My Head, is out now.
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twitter.com/LauraJaneGrace
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Support the pod: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Buy a zine: afterthedeluge.bigcartel.com/
Contact me: delugepodcast@gmail.com
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Jordan Kleeman started Crasshole Records as a teenager and put out several early Against Me! EPs including this legendary self-titled 12” record. We talk about the first version of “Walking is Still Honest,” why this beautiful record sounds like shit, a decade of touring with Against Me!, and holding down that synth-key note on “8 Hours of Full Sleep.” Just a wonderful person and a perfect boomerang back to the beginning of this band’s story.
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You can reach me at delugepodcast@gmail.com
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Get a Zine: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Full Shape Shift With Me episode available now at patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Thanks for supporting the show! Reach me at delugepodcast@gmail.com
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Casey Plett is an author from Canada. We talk about coming out in a Rolling Stone article, dissecting The Ocean, seeing Against Me! In Winnipeg on the Transgender Dysphoria Blues tour, low-key gesturing back to Reinventing Axl Rose w/ those first snare hits, the novel “Nevada” by Imogen Binnie, “Rough surf on the coast, I wish I could have spent the whole day alone,” misinterpreting the message of Fight Club, which of these songs are first-person?, pressure on trans artists to be positive and peppy, dead friends, “Black Me Out,” 10 years ago compared to now, the pre-backlash liminal space that this album was born into, poetic contemplation of mosh pits, Laura looked so happy in Winnipeg, ETC!
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Rolling Stone article: https://archive.is/6YEAZ
Casey Plett journal: https://caseyplett.wordpress.com/2022/03/12/i-found-an-old-journal-entry-about-when-i-saw-against-me-when-they-did-their-first-tour-after-laura-jane-transd/
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Steak Mtn (Christopher Norris) did the art for several Against Me! records including this one. We talk about the album White Crosses, the revolution being a lie, collaborating on art with Laura, Christopher's not a fan of anarcho-bucket music, getting that Warner Bros. money, this album has sheen but it also has teeth, the iconic Transgender Dysphoria Blues meat-cube album cover, scanning porn magazines and melting them in Photoshop, major-label tinkering, Laura being a teenage anarchist, The Ocean is an Against Me! song from the future, White Crosses is not pop-punk; it’s pop-rock, more Florida talk, Robert McNamara’s son is a farmer and I interviewed him once, Christopher sat on a flight with the manager who was suing the band, writing a book is hard, and he’s not an artist nor is he an author, but he did design this record cover and you can buy his novel, The Holy Day, now.
steakmtn.com
https://www.rosebooks.co/
twitter.com/steakmtn
twitter.com/routinelayup
Email the show: delugepodcast@gmail.com
Support the show: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Ben Lee is a musician from Australia now in LA. We talk about New Wave, having his mind blown on a flight to Australia, trusting Tegan and Sara’s taste, a punk-rock duet, why Ben covered this record, the music industry changes so why resist it, would you take the Hyundai sponsorship, would you open for Maroon 5?, New Wave is a historical document, clunky sentences as catchy choruses, “Be my Baby,” Trent Reznor, Butch Vig, Nic Johns, fan backlash, and viewing your life as an art project.
Support the show! patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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x.com/benlee (Ben)
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Keegan Bradford (@franziamom) plays in Camp Trash and writes about music online. We talk about Against Me!’s Searching for a Former Clarity, folk-punk being out of fashion, Algernon Cadwallader as a fictional band, hostile fanbases, Florida geography and scene dynamics, the best record ever about arguing on the internet, AM!’s miserable ascent, Laura breaks out the band's financials, Former Clarity is bloated but we struggle to tighten it, Miami, tiny font and Fat Mike, antagonizing the fans, Condoleeeeza, mid-2000s Franz Ferdinand-core, Problems with everything, confessing childhood secrets, the jean-jacket patch version of a Live Laugh Love sign, John K. Samson, Justin's dead, the band sounds exhausted but there is joy in every possibility.
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https://camptrash.bandcamp.com (Camp Trash)
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x.com/routinelayup (Justin)
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This week we go to the movies. I'm joined by Dan Bassini and Andrew Valentine of the Run into the Ground podcast to talk about the 2004 Against Me! tour documentary We're Never Going Home, which sees the band getting courted by major labels and fucking with their fellow touring bands. Plus Asbury Park, depressing East Coast beaches, and iconic venue carpets. It's a fun one. [WATCH VIDEO OF THIS EPISODE]
- Watch it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VYHM_4-H2s
- Run into the Ground: https://open.spotify.com/show/0OQ2VNOgHqPsoys5NWVnU5?si=155e6ffb1ff64d15
- Dan's new book (When I Kill God...): https://www.danbassini.com/when-i-kill-god
- Donate in memory of Steve Poponi: https://www.gradwellhouse.com/steve-poponi
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Ryan Page plays in the band Bad Dads. We talk about being a message-board kid, bands as bumper stickers, lying to Fat Mike, “whoas,” major labels swooping in, Ardent Studios, not getting sick of the Eternal Cowboy songs, y’all overpraised the Tim remaster, spinning this CD thrice in a row, we revisit the Axl snare sound, I say “chuckles” a half-dozen times, “when I got the music, I got a place to go,” The Disco Before the Breakdown, Against Me! playing “Tonight We’re Gonna Give it 35%” acoustic at Thump Records in LA, getting romantic for Florida even though we know it sucks, interpunk.com, my wellness-tonic journey, Beatles vs. Stones 2023, and We’re Never Going Home.
stuff: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Tnght 35% https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5ndM2Sx5LU
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Austin Lucas is a musician whose latest album is called Reinventing Against Me! We talk about being crust-adjacent, Austin’s path from hardcore to country, The Go-Gos, the Axl cover, live-streaming through the early pandemic, "Oh Donna," knocking out a record in two days, John Mellencamp’s background singer, that snare drum tone, St. Anger, Fall Out Boy’s “We Didn’t Start the Fire,” arguing online, Jason Isbell on Twitter, coming out as trans, The Revival Tour, John Popper, Laura Jane Grace as one of our greatest songwriters, when punk bands make pop records, when the scene gets gentrified, ETC!
Support this show get a zine: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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instagram.com/austinlucasmusic/
austinlucas.com
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Crime as Forgiven By Against Me! was released in 2001 and followed that same year by the band's self-titled acoustic EP.
Frank Turner is a musician from England. He joined us from his studio while working on his next album. We talk about knocking out records, Alternative Press, diagonal haircuts, gatekeeping subgenres of emo, Frank was a few high school grades behind Against Me!, the Crime EP was slipped to him like drugs, he loves New Wave, trying to be Neil Young, "selling out" at the dawn of social media, Love Ire & Song, feeling a little guilty around Ian MacKaye, going back in time to give Against Me! a hug, Gainesville, Tom Petty, No Idea Records, Lisa Loeb, folk is the only scene more annoying than punk, Frightened Rabbit, “Dylan goes electric,” me playing harmonica with Frank at The Fillmore, Against Me! scaring his fans in the UK, and then my wife pops in to say a quick hello.
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frank-turner.com
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Season 3 of After the Deluge will go album by album through the Against Me! discography with a new guest each week, starting with their early days in Gainesville followed by records released on No Idea and Fat Wreck Chords before signing to a major label deal. And all of that comes well before the release of Transgender Dysphoria Blues--a significant chapter unto itself.
Ep. 1 guest is Frank Turner Subscribe and tell a friend!
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For bonus content, ad-free episodes, and an Against Me! zine mailed to your home, check out patreon.com/afterthedeluge.
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I talked to Dan Ozzi, author of the book Sellout, about his recent Fader piece about The Armed—a band/collective/cult from Detroit. We jump from there into early 2010s music writing, hearing new music as you get old, editing Noisey in the early 2010s, getting nostalgic about Chumped, media now vs. media then, when the label or publisher asks you to do corny stuff, selling out, "lying Lydia Tár" ...and then we close out by reacting to Barack Obama’s summer playlist, which dropped right before we recorded.
patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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https://twitter.com/danozzi
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https://www.thefader.com/2023/06/27/cover-story-the-armed-perfect-saviors-interview-profile-2023
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Tim Kasher returns for a special episode about The Good Life’s Album of the Year. We talk about Zooming with Conor Oberst on bad wifi, his upcoming tour, his high school band March Hares opening for 311, Tim’s Red Hot Chili Peppers horoscope theory, Inmates, early 2000s Saddle Creek albums about substances, Cursive, debauchery and heartache, Tim loves musicals, I get a little emo about the seasons, Vanessa Carlton, Ryan Fox's slide guitar, creating albums in a world made for songs, The Good Life’s website SEO, and what next?
JOIN: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Tim: https://www.instagram.com/timkasher
The Good Life: https://thegoodlifemusic.com/
Me: https://twitter.com/routinelayup
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The next season of After the Deluge is in the works, I went on a podcast to defend Lifted, I read a book called At the Bottom of Everything, our friend Tim Kasher is returning, and I made some more Bright Eyes zines and you can get one now!
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Run into the Ground podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/run-into-the-ground/id1611220387
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After the Deluge Zine: https://afterthedeluge.bigcartel.com/
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I talk to Conor Oberst of Bright Eyes about Jackson Browne, emo, being a child among the Saddle Creek teens, showing ambition in a slacker scene, Pitchfork reviews, a wild story behind “Soul Singer in a Session Band," his songs making sense to him but maybe not to you, Conor’s media diet, listening to audiobooks about feathers, do people pay too much attention to politics now?, AI and Chat GPT, The Faint being ahead of their time, could he write “First Day of My Life” on command?, long songs and “Let’s Not Shit Ourselves,” using SAT words in lyrics, that perfect Waxahatchee record, the next batch of companion EPs, opening for Paramore at the Emo Fest, that cancelled Houston show, writing songs to impress Tim Kasher, Todd Fink and Ted Stevens, leaving Saddle Creek, how to get into the band Superchunk, what does Conor Oberst think of 311?, Rage Against the Machine vs. Limp Bizkit, Down in the Weeds, feeling like The Beatles on the Wide Awake tour... not so much on the Digital Ash tour… and then we meet his dog Petra and say goodbye!
Support the pod/get the zine: www.patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Follow Bright Eyes: twitter.com/brighteyesband
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On this special episode we talk about non-Bright Eyes Conor Oberst projects over the last 25 years. I’m joined by Maddy, Michael, Rina, Greg, Justin and Per (Patreon supporters of this show ☺️) for a sprawling conversation about Oberst's solo records and side projects. There are many!
For PART 2 (+ VIDEO) hit up patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Here’s the list of records I mention in the intro:
CONOR OBERST
Water (1993)
Here’s to Special Treatment (1994)
The Soundtrack to my Movie (1996)
Conor Oberst (2008)
... & the Mystic Valley Band: Outer South (2009)
Upside Down Mountain (2014)
Ruminations (2016)
Salutations (2017)
COMMANDER VENUS
Do You Feel at Home? (1995)
The Uneventful Vacation (1997)
NORMAN BAILER
Sine Sierra (1995)
DEAPARACIDOS
Read Music / Speak Spanish (2002)
Payola (2015)
MONSTERS OF FOLK
Monsters of Folk (2009) - Boring / Awash in reverb / Boygenius Rolling Stone
BETTER OBLIVION COMMUNITY CENTER
Better Oblivion Community Center (2019) - Great / Dylan Thomas
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Marc Hogan is a senior staff writer at Pitchfork and he wrote the review of Down in the Weeds, Where the World Once Was.
In this episode we talk about a difficult decade for Conor Oberst, Audiogalaxy, patience with late-career albums, 2013’s false rape allegations, being Conor’s same age, Red Hot Chili Peppers, dropping a record in Covid, Ruminations, his brother’s death, divorce, catastrophizing his 40th birthday, Van Morrison, Dancing and Singing, Marc’s Mars Volta phase, Flea, Nothing Gets Crossed Out, old Pitchfork, who is the current Bright Eyes?, reporting on assault allegations, Drake, Hotline Bling, and the lede to Marc’s 7.4 Pitchfork review.
Review
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/bright-eyes-down-in-the-weeds-where-the-world-once-was/
Marc
twitter.com/marchogan
Justin
twitter.com/routinelayup
Special thanks to Justin Corwin for helping guide me into this record. Check out his latest Bright Eyes video on THE DEEP DIVE.
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I went from not caring much at all about this record to straight-up loving it over the last month. My guest is episode is Marc Hogan of Pitchfork, and we talk not only about the record, but also the tumultuous hiatus that led up to it which included false rape allegations, an illness that cancelled a tour, the death of his brother, and a divorce. We also talk talk about Pitchfork then and Pitchfork now through the prism of Bright Eyes, and some Conor Oberst lyrics about "change."
PATREON: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Ben Dolnick is the author of four novels including The Ghost Notebooks, You Know Who You Are, and At the Bottom of Everything. He wrote this 2011 Bright Eyes essay in The Awl: https://www.theawl.com/2011/01/taste-has-never-met-shame-i-love-you-conor-oberst/
This episode features an excellent audio essay from Dominic Ronzani about why The People's Key is his favorite Bright Eyes record. It's a great supplement to the Pitchfork 5.0 Pitchfork review.
We talk about Ben's Garden State moment with “Something Vague,” fear of outgrowing Bright Eyes, the idea of taste, the idea of shame, liking what you like, Ben’s piano teacher digs Bright Eyes, Elliott Smith as a Tesla and Bright Eyes as a taped-together golf cart, Ben’s excellent fader-knob theory about Sincerity/Professionalism, science fiction, Rastafarianism, Hitler, Ben blows my mind w/ the first lines of “Shell Games,” the post-Napster-pre-Spotify window of 2011, reptilians, pomegranates, Denny Brewer as a Joe Rogan guest, the non-rhyme fake-out on “Triple Spiral,” “Ladder Song” is a goosebumps tune, and 13-year-old Oberst’s song about Space Invaders.
Ben Dolnick
http://bendolnick.com/
Justin Cox
patreon.com/afterthedeluge
twitter.com/routinelayup
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Support the creation of this show at patreon.com/afterthedeluge
This full episode is live over there right now and the After the Deluge zine will hit mailboxes in a month (or so!).
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Today we have two Bright Eyes scholars (and Patreon supporters 🥰) who truly know their shit. Pardon the slightly click-bait headline... but Per Davidson and Justin Corwin take us on a tour of some great non-album Bright Eyes tracks from splits, EPs and YouTube rarities. All six of these songs are great upon first listen, but they go up several notches after you let these two unpack them.
I didn’t initially intend to explore these kinds of non-LP tracks (out of some combination of self-preservation and laziness) but this episode stands as evidence that the project would have been incomplete if I’d ignored them. Join me in thanking these two for curating the tracks on this episode.
Scroll way down in this description if you want to see the songs in list form, otherwise just click play and let them wash over you.
Per Davidson
bit.ly/breakingupwithcapitalism
Justin Corwin - The Deep Dive (YouTube)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgmY1---0BV0pQviV5X027w
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Entry Way Song
Southern State
Motion Sickness
Tourist Trap
The Trees Get Wheeled Away
Happy Accident
- a few more
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Brian Howe is a music, arts and culture critic for Pitchfork and many other outlets. Evan Bailey sings and plays guitar in the band Oh, Lonesome Ana. We talk about Cassadaga, experimental album art, mysticism, fiddles, Brian discovering Fevers & Mirrors, meaning outside of religion, reassessing this record, high fidelity audio, Brian’s 6.0 Pitchfork review, songs about Oberst's life vs. songs about The World, “Santa Claus is Coming to Town,” Cassadaga, FL, songs that feel longer than they are, Oberst’s Inside Llewyn Davis audition, getting clean in Los Angeles, “Countrypolitan," "Classic Cars," seeing the Cassadaga tour live, Kirsten Dunst, Mogis pedal steel. RATE/REVIEW/SHARE THIS SHOW! PATREON (BONUS STUFF + A ZINE!): PATREON.COM/AFTERTHEDELUGE
Justin Cox
- patreon.com/afterthedeluge
- twitter.com/routinelayup
Brian Howe
- twitter.com/Brian_Gray_Howe
- https://www.waxwroth.com/
Evan Bailey (Oh, Lonesome Ana)
- https://ohlonesomeana.bandcamp.com/
- https://www.instagram.com/ohlonesomeana/
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Today we talk about a bizarre phenomenon atop the Bright Eyes Spotify page.
In this episode we talk about the fact that I’m Wide Awake it’s Morning occupies every spot in the Top 5 of the Bright Eyes Spotify page. My guest is Ryan Page of Bad Dads and the Beatles vs. Stones podcast. (Full disclosure: I’m a member of both).
The bulk of this episode is spent searching for a band that might fit into our Wide Awake Phenomenon.
The conversation spins out in all directions from there with Ellen DeGeneres and Third Eye Blind serving as the heartbeat that keeps this thing pumping. Also discussed: Taylor Swift, Santana, selling out, the Bandcamp article about Dummy, her placenta falls to the floor, Hootie, Alanis, and Oingo Boingo.
We find one band that fits the bill and that band is ______.
Got an artist that fits theWide Awake Phenomenon? Email me at justincox22@gmail.com
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Michael Tedder is culture writer who's written for Stereogum, The Ringer, Esquire, Uproxx and many more. We talk about early 2000s Bright Eyes shows in Florida, war, emo-bashing, making a 70s record, flawed voices, Conor writes his big hit, Saddle Creek 50, Michael’s coffee mug, Top-3 Saddest Horn Parts in Indie Rock History, Sufjan Stevens, Michael builds the Bright Eyes MySpace Music page live, "At the Bottom of Everything" to kick things off, Emmylou Harris & Jim James bring the HARMONIES, for Zoomers The Red Hot Chili Peppers and Bright Eyes are about the same, When We Were Young Festival, "Lua" is perfect, “Meeee— eeee—,” how long till Taylor Swift covers “First Day of My Life?,” Michael’s new book (Top Eight, How MySpace Changed Music) comes out in Aug 2023 and can be preordered now.
Michael Tedder: https://twitter.com/mtedder
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
Patreon (extra shit and a Bright Eyes zine): patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Rob Harvilla is the host of 60 Songs that Explain the 90s—a popular podcast that I love. Today we talk about the 2005 Bright Eyes song “When the President Talks to God.” Also: Conor writing this song on a ferry, playing it on Jay Leno in cowboy swag, the pain of reading your old writing, REM, The Boss, 9/11, living in bubbles, Iraq, America coming together and then blowing apart, The Chicks, NOFX, Road to Joy, and would Bright Eyes make the cut on a hypothetical 60 Songs that Explain the Aughts? twitter.com/harvilla twitter.com/routinelayup -- SUPPORT THE MAKING OF THIS SHOW & GET COOL STUFF — patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Todd Fink is the lead singer of The Faint, a vital and important band that grew up alongside Bright Eyes in those early Saddle Creek years in Omaha. We talk about touring with Bright Eyes on the Digital Ash tour, life in Joshua Tree, the Desert Oracle, creative Saddle Creek bands, going electronic, masterful Mogis production, keeping imperfections, me having Covid, Todd’s parents didn’t love young-kid squealing Conor but Todd saw his talent, the Fevers & Mirrors radio interview and Pitchfork review, Conor's and Bright Eyes' writing and recording process, what’s next for The Faint, Recapitate Headwear, and Tim Kasher’s early encouragement.
At 53:00, I’m joined by a few of the After the Deluge Patreon supporters to talk about this record and some select tracks. The voices you’ll hear are Reed, Per, Jon, Lyzi and myself. We dig into specific Digital Ash tracks, moments, and lyrics.
Extra shit and a Bright Eyes zine! patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Todd Fink: instagram.com/toddthefink
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
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Full episode is live at patreon.com/afterthedeluge
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Todd Fink is the lead singer of The Faint, a vital and important band that grew up alongside Bright Eyes in those early Saddle Creek years in Omaha. We talk about touring with Bright Eyes on the Digital Ash tour, life in Joshua Tree, the Desert Oracle, creative Saddle Creek bands, going electronic, masterful Mogis production, keeping imperfections, me having Covid, Todd’s parents didn’t love young-kid squealing Conor but Todd saw his talent, the Fevers & Mirrors radio interview and Pitchfork review, Conor's and Bright Eyes' writing and recording process, what’s next for The Faint, Recapitate Headwear, and Tim Kasher’s early encouragement.
At 53:00, I’m joined by a few of the After the Deluge Patreon supporters to talk about this record and some select tracks. The voices you’ll hear are Reed, Per, Jon, Lyzi and myself. We go dig into specific Digital Ash tracks, moments, and lyrics in that second section.
Extra shit and a Bright Eyes zine! patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Todd Fink: instagram.com/toddthefink
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
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Emily Kitchin is a social media manager, ex music journalist, and self-described Conor Oberst superfan. We talk about a blog post she wrote called, “If Their Favorite Bright Eyes Song is ___ Then ___.” Plus songs without choruses, holding space for normies, loving I’m Wide Awake It’s Morning, Kevin Devine, Rocky Votolato, “cool” music, etc. Read Emily’s blog post here: https://www.collectinginterest.com/bright-eyes
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
Emily Kitchin: /twitter.com/deathnap4cutie
A SAMPLING:
- “Landlocked Blues” — HAS DADDY ISSUES AND SOME SERIOUS EMOTIONAL TRAUMA FROM PAST RELATIONSHIPS.
- “Bowl Of Oranges” — REALLY INTO SPREADING POSITIVITY. VEGAN. THEY BOTTLE THEIR EMOTIONS. FOLLOWS CUTE ANIMAL ACCOUNTS.
- “Let’s Not Shit Ourselves” — DOWN TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT BUT ALSO LIKES TO HANG OUT WITH THEIR MOM. MARRY THEM.
- “Take It Easy (Love Nothing)” — ACTIVE TINDER USER. KNOWS WHAT THEY WANT IN LIFE. LOVES TIM KASHER.
- “Loose Leaves” — HMU, WE ARE SOULMATES
- “Shell Games” — MATURE FOR THEIR AGE. STEERING WHEEL DRUMMER. STEREOTYPICAL INDIE BRO BUT AN OVERALL GOOD PERSON.
- “Nothing Gets Crossed Out” — DEPRESSED AS ALL HELL. THEY REWARD THEMSELVES WITH LITTLE VICTORIES. EATS A LOT OF BREAD AND WISHES THEY COULD FALL ASLEEP AT NIGHT.
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Part two, flip the record! Claire Carusillo (Gawker) and I look at the second half of Lifted, culminating in the goddamn opus--Let's Not Shit Ourselves.
In this conversation we talk about friendship, songmeanings.net being better than Genius, wasting paint, strumming and hollering, weeping for Laura Laurent, Justin's lost term paper about Let's Not Shit Ourselves, not reading the reviews, ABC, NBC, CBS BULLSHIT!, fatherly love for Hunter Biden, Roe v. Wade, staring too long at WHAT screen?, loving, being loved, and her majesty the queen.
Claire Carusillo: twitter.com/clocarustwo(here's her author pageand her pieces about Jackson Browne and sad YouTube comments)
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
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This week we talk Lifted, this podcast's favorite Bright Eyes album. My guest is Claire Carusillo, a Features Writer at Gawker. Part 2: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
In this episode we talk about beastly records from 2002, a couple of wars, circus percussion, Michael keeping the tape rolling and Tim’s album, a Pitchfork 7.7, Johnny Cash covering NIN, songwriting prodigies, Rilo Kiley, happy songs, burned CDs, Claire’s yellow legal pad, Conor being funny, the mistake, bad boy Conor, happy Conor, Jack Johnson catches a stray bullet, my Ben Harper cover, beautiful harmonies that shadow the melody.
Part 2: patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Claire Carusillo: twitter.com/clocarustwo (here's her author page and her Jackson Browne blog)
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
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There are so many Bright Eyes EPs and Conor Oberst side/solo projects that I was afraid to take them all on in the podcast. But my guest today makes a good case for why these early EPs are a crucial part of the story. Here are the five tracks we talk about:
- A Line Allows Progress, a Circle Does Not
- A Perfect Sonnet
- Neely O'Hara
- Joy in Forgetting-Joy in Acceptance
- No Lies, Just Love
I'm on Twitter at: twitter.com/routinelayupThe Deep Dive on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc62mHuzwuE
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Ian Cohen (Pitchfork/Indiecast) and I talk about Fevers and Mirrors, a pivotal moment for Bright Eyes and Saddle Creek. Check out Ian's excellent Pitchfork review of the vinyl reissue in 2012.
Also discussed: Dashboard Confessional, Emo (again), long intro tracks to chase off the squares, early Pitchfork, Rolling Stone reviews for old rockers, bands swinging BIG, our embarrassing teenage journals, Steven Hyden’s album rankings, is Cassadaga overrated or underrated?, eBaum’s World, No Woman No Cry, THAT FAKE RADIO INTERVIEW, Todd Fink’s improv skills, and A Song to Pass the Time as the album's epilogue.
Extra shit and a Bright Eyes zine! patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup
Ian Cohen: twitter.com/en_cohen
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Cursive's Tim Kasher and I talk about the early days of Saddle Creek and the first two Bright Eyes records, A Collection of Songs Written and Recorded 1995-1997 and Letting Off the Happiness. Also discussed: Antique stores, early Cursive records, 14-year-old Conor, what bound Saddle Creek bands, Emo, the Oberst household, Saddle Creek isn’t really a creek, Letting Off the Happiness was monumental, small town music scenes, Tim keeping the Devil away by making art. Extra shit and a Bright Eyes zine for you! patreon.com/afterthedeluge Tim's new record, Middling Age: https://timkasher.bandcamp.com/album/middling-age Justin Cox: twitter.com/routinelayup Tim Kasher: twitter.com/timkasher
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Season two of After the Deluge will go album by album through the Bright Eyes discography, from the basement recordings in Omaha through the pandemic release after a decade-long hiatus, and some real classics in between. I'm Justin Cox and I'll have a conversation with a new guest each episode starting with Tim Kasher on the first two Bright Eyes records, Saddle Creek, and the late '90s in Omaha, Nebraska.
For bonus content, ad-free episodes, and a Bright Eyes zine mailed to your home, check out patreon.com/afterthedeluge
Follow me here: twitter.com/routinelayup
If you came for the Jackson Browne podcast, stick around for this. You might find something new to love.
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This week, Ryan Page and I share our favorite Jackson Browne songs... as well as our favorite David Lindley moments, non-Lindley musical moments and some of our favorite lyrics. Just a couple of buds strolling through some of their favorite music. The podcast will be back with Lawyers in Love/Somebody's Baby next week.
Argue with me on Twitter at @routinelayup.
Rile yourself up with this Jackson Browne song bracket here: i.redd.it/yv8be9dtbtt41.jpg
Rate, review, live, laugh, love, etc.
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When I make an episode of After the Deluge, I inevitably cut some parts for flow as I go about splicing in songs. I also don't typically keep the video on when I record the call, but I couldn't help but leave it on when I had Jackson himself on for the last episode. I just posted that full, unedited Zoom call over at patreon.com/afterthedeluge. You can hear a few clips on this teaser and get a look at our discussion below. I'm on Twitter at @routinelayup.
2:00 - The origins of "The Dreamer"
7:20 - “I can’t write a song that simple”
10:00 - “Somebody’s Baby” & simple, catchy songs
13:00 - Describing life to yourself is a cool job
16:45 - The ocean is downhill from everywhere
20:00 - Sylvia Earle and the Blue Heart of the planet
22:45 - Coming down from acid and getting a song idea on the freeway
32:00 - Jamming with Greg Copeland and Greg Leisz
36:00 - The undervalued talent of session musicians (and how Jackson treats them)
41:45 - Justin sharing an dorky story about a Jackson Browne show I saw
43:25 - Playing acoustic and why he has 10 guitars up there
49:30 - Are guitar solos dead?
52:45 - On Phoebe Bridgers, Dawes, Tal Wilkenfeld, and other young artists
54:20 - The last lines of "These Days" explained
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In 1976 Jackson Browne was on the heels of Late for the Sky and bout to release The Pretender. Warren Zevon had released his acclaimed self-titled record and would soon release Excitable Boy. Here we have a rough and rowdy bootleg in which the two improvise alongside one another in a Dutch radio booth and later on a stage in Amsterdam.
https://www.patreon.com/afterthedeluge
I'm on Twitter at twitter.com/routinelayup
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Making this podcast has been a dream. Whether you're here for Jackson Browne, Bright Eyes, or some other poetic white guy, here's where you can support the project. I deeply thank you! patreon.com/afterthedeluge 🙏
twitter.com/routinelayup
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Our guest is Jackson Browne (!) and we talk about his new record, Downhill From Everywhere. We start with his new album and then we foray all over his life and career from there. Follow me on Twitter at @routinelayup. Email me at justincox22@gmail.com.
Subscribe to this show for bonus content at patreon.com/afterthedeluge.
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In this episode I talk about Standing in the Breach and Jackson Browne's full career with Anthony DeCurtis and Angie Martoccio, both of whom are Rolling Stone writers. Anthony has covered Jackson extensively over the years and Angie is on the singer-songwriter beat (among others) at Rolling Stone currently.
Follow Anthony at @adecurtis and follow Angie at @angiemartoccio on Twitter. You can find me at @routinelayup or email me at justincox22@gmail.com.
I share a short, sentimental montage at the 1:20 mark and then introduce the album and the 2014 Rolling Stone review, which was written by our first guest. Our conversation starts around the 8-minute mark. My conversation with Angie begins around the 51-minute mark.
Please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, thanks!
The artists mentioned or played in the section with Angie are:
- Phoebe Bridgers
- Tal Wilkenfeld
- Dawes
- Blake Mills
Goodbye! 👋
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In episode 11, I talk about The Naked Ride Home and Time the Conqueror with Rolling Stone writer and editor Jonathan Bernstein. Follow him on Twitter at @jonbern and follow myself and this show at @routinelayup. You can email me at justincox22@gmail.com.
After a brief intro and a look at the original 2002 review by James Hunter, our conversation starts around the 3 minute mark. I jump in midway through to look at the 2008 Time the Conqueror review, also by James Hunter, before jumping right back into our conversation.
The Phoebe Bridgers/Jackson Browne song you hear early on is a cover of Christmas Song by McCarthy Trenching: http://www.mccarthytrenching.com/
You can read Jonathan’s Blake Mills story in which he quotes Jackson Browne: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/blake-mills-interview-mutable-set-1008984/
Rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, thanks!
NOTE: Our conversation took place just days after George Floyd was murdered. Consider making a donation to The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, which lets you choose where your donation will go, from voting rights to police reform to education. Just visit their site (naacpldf.org), click Donate, and note your preference before you check out.
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In episode 10, I talk about I’m Alive and Looking East with David Wild, a former Rolling Stone West Coast Bureau Chief, author of several books and longtime TV writer, including nearly 20 years with the Grammys. Follow him on Twitter at @wildaboutmusic and follow this show at @routinelayup.
After a brief intro and a look at the original 1993 Rolling Stone Review by Kara Manning, our conversation starts around the 5 minute mark. We take a snappy break at the 37 minute mark to look at the 1998 Looking East Rolling Stone review by Elysa Gardner before jumping right back into our conversation.
You can email me at justincox22@gmail.com. Rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, thanks!
NOTE: Our conversation took place before George Floyd was murdered. For that reason, you won’t hear it mentioned in this conversation. Consider making a donation to The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, which lets you choose where your donation will go, from voting rights to police reform to education. Just visit their site (naacpldf.org), click Donate, and note your preference before you check out.
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In episode nine I talk about Lives in the Balance and World in Motion with Holly Gleason, whom you might remember from the Running on Empty episode. Holly is the author of Woman, Walk the Line: How the Women in Country Music Changed our Lives. She’s written for dozens of publications including Rolling Stone, American Songwriter, LA Times and more. She cowrote the #1 song "Better as a Memory." Find more on Holly at hollygleason.com.
After a brief intro and a look at the original 1986 Rolling Stone review by Jimmy Guterman, our conversation starts around the 3 minute mark. We take a snappy break at the 30 minute mark to look at the 1989 Rolling Stone review by David Fricke before jumping right back into our conversation.
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This talk took place the day after George Floyd was killed, but before most of us (myself included) had seen the horrific video, let alone processed its significance. For that reason, you won’t hear it mentioned in this conversation. In this episode we talk a whole lot about the power of speaking up against injustice, and if you want to find parallels to present day, they await you in this conversation about Jackson Browne's two most overtly political albums.
I discussed Floyd's death at the top of last week’s Lawyers in Love episode and I regret not sharing a place where people can donate. The NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund lets you choose where your donation will go, from voting rights to police reform to education. Just visit their site (naacpldf.org), click Donate, and note your preference before you check out.
You can connect with the podcast on Twitter at@routinelayup and email me at justincox22@gmail.com.
Rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, thanks!
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In episode eight I talk about Lawyers in Love and "Somebody’s Baby" with Tom Hampton—a multi-instrumentalist, sideman, session musician and singer/songwriter. Tom is a guitarist and vocalist in the country-rock band Poco and has toured with the Marshall Tucker Band. More about Tom at tomhampton.com.
After a brief intro (about the week's events) and a look at the original 1983 Rolling Stone review by Chris Connelly, our conversation starts around the 7:00 mark. We move on to "Somebody's Baby" at the 43:45 mark.
Connect with the podcast on Twitter at @routinelayup.
Go ahead and rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, thanks!
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In episode six I talk about Hold Out with journalist, editor and longtime music critic Kit Rachlis, who wrote the original (largely critical) 1980 Rolling Stone review for the album. Kit is Senior Editor at California Sunday Magazine and our conversation starts around the 5:00 mark. You’ll also hear from Pat Francis, who hosts the Rock Solid Podcast, describes why Hold Out is special to him. That break comes at the 21:30 mark and then I jump back in with Kit.
- Connect with me on Twitter at @routinelayup
- Follow Kit at @kitrachlis
- Follow Pat at @Pat_Francis
Rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, folks. Thanks!
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In episode five I talk about Running on Empty with music critic, author and songwriter Holly Gleason. After a brief intro and a look at the original 1977 Rolling Stone review by Paul Nelson, our conversation starts around the 5:00 mark.
Holly Gleason is the author of Woman, Walk the Line: How the Women in Country Music Changed our Lives. She’s written for dozens of publications including Rolling Stone, American Songwriter, LA Times and more. She cowrote the #1 song "Better as a Memory."
Paul Ingles, who is mentioned in this podcast, is the creator of The Emergence Of, a series that looks at the early careers of impactful musicians.
- Connect with me on Twitter at@routinelayup
- Leave me a voice message about your favorite song at anchor.fm/afterthedeluge
- Try this bracket of Jackson Browne songs if you want a difficult challenge
- Rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Thanks!
I posted this one a day early because I took a few days off work and am going to unplug right... now. Enjoy!
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In episode four I talk about The Pretender with musicians Kyle Cox and Dana Cox, who are also my cousin and my dad respectively. The Pretender is Kyle’s favorite Jackson Browne album, and that record was my dad’s intro to Jackson’s music when it came out. For that reason, I knew going in that I wanted to talk to my family about this one. After a brief intro and a look at the original 1976 Rolling Stone review by Dave Marsh, our conversation starts around the 7:00 mark.
Kyle is the singer for the band Kanan Road, who you can check out at kananroadband.com. You can hear Dana Cox at danacox.bandcamp.com.
Share the podcast, and rate and review it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Connect with me on Twitter at@routinelayup or leave me a voice message at anchor.fm/afterthedeluge.
Also, I made a bracket of Jackson Browne songs so you can put yourself through hell trying to decide on a favorite.
Note: In this episode, we avoid discussing how Jackson Browne’s wife’s suicide might have played into the album. Without concrete knowledge, it wasn’t something we wanted to loosely speculate on in casual conversation.
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In episode three I talk about Late For the Sky with culture critic and music writer Steven Hyden of Uproxx and the Rivals podcast. After a brief intro and a look at the original 1974 Rolling Stone review by Stephen Holden, our conversation starts around the 7:00 mark. Follow Steven Hyden at @Steven_Hyden.
Share the podcast, and rate and review it on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Connect with me on Twitter at@routinelayupor leave me a voice message at anchor.fm/afterthedeluge.
Also, I made a bracket of Jackson Browne songs so you put yourself through hell deciding on a favorite.
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In episode two I talk about the album For Everyman with PNW musician Ryan Page. After a brief intro and a look at the original 1973 Rolling Stone review by Janet Maslin, our conversation starts at 5:40 mark.
Share the podcast, and rate and review it. Leave me a voice message by going to anchor.fm/afterthedeluge or on Twitter at @routinelayup.
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In the debut episode I talk about Jackson Browne’s self-titled debut album, often referred to as Saturate Before Using, with singer-songwriter William Matheny. After a brief intro of the show and a look at the original 1972 Rolling Stone review for the album, our conversation starts at 4:40.
Share the podcast, and rate and review it. Leave me a voice message by going to anchor.fm/afterthedeluge or on Twitter at @routinelayup.
Check out William Matheny's music at williammatheny.com. Matheny's song "Christian Name" plays after our conversation.
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Join me for a deep-dive through the Jackson Browne discography starting with his first five albums, which I believe represent one of the best five-album runs by any artist ever. Each podcast episode is built upon an interview with a different musician or writer close to Jackson Browne’s music. Thanks for subscribing.
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