The Fatherhood Challenge Podcast: Recent Episodes
Jonathan Guerrero
The Fatherhood Challenge is a movement dedicated to encouraging fathers to engage with their children and educate society on the positive impact involved fathers have on their communities and society from generation to generation.
Ever heard of the term baby mama and baby daddy? Where did this come from? Why is the divorce rate so high? Why is there a feminist movement? Why are more women than ever turning to new age/witchcraft practices and facing a spiritual crisis in the search to discover their identity, purpose and value? Why are so many women the targets of violence, rape and sexual abuse? Because something is missing. In this episode Daryl Dudley will reveal what is missing and how you can be part of the change.
Daryl Dudley is the founder of She’s My Daughter. She’s My Daughter is an organization that enlists men as advocates and protectors empowering women and girls and supporting victims.
To connect with Daryl Dudley or learn more about She's My Daughter, visit: http://www.shesmydaughter.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Remember the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? If you do, you’re likely a gen-x’er like me. So many of my friends at school had the action figures and would play with them re-enacting episodes in class.The cartoon was rooted in values of fame and power. Many of us in my generation and younger are parents wanting stronger values grounded in scripture for our children than what we grew up with. My guest Howard "Quiggly" Chang was the Lead Toy Concept Artist for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. His spiritual transformation led him instead to create a new action figure franchise with characters rooted in truth, faith and courage all based on Hebrews 11.
To learn more about Ancientz and what Howard is doing, visit:
Website: www.ancientz.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ancientz_official/
Facebook: facebook.com/ancientz.official
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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In part 2 of How To Connect With Your Kids, we explore the image of God in the family unit and fatherhood specifically. We also explore Pastor Jim Berglund's two books: Dad, Pass the Torch: A Father-Son Devotional Workbook and another called Daddy Daughter Dates: A Devotional Legacy Workbook. Jim explains how both books can give you a much closer relationship with your kids making the process simple and consistent yelidling results.
You can find both of Pastor Jim Berglund's books here:
https://a.co/d/hqIflEF
https://a.co/d/escUs7E
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Today in part 1, we’re going to explore powerful ways to connect with your son or daughter and leave a lasting legacy. My guest has written two books full of actionable steps that yield powerful results towards connection with your kids. He also has quite a powerful story of his own to share about connecting with his kids.
My guest is Pastor Jim Berglund. This episode is special for me because awhile back in December 2021 I had his son Pastor Josh Hester on the program in an episode called A True Story About the Power of a Fathers Love With Joshua Hester. In that episode we heard Pastor Josh’s testimony of how my current guest Pastor Jim Berglund connected with him, led him to discover and know Jesus, adopted him as his own son and mentored him into ministry.
Part 2 will continue in the next episode.
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Are you looking for a radio program and podcast specifically made for your kids? Then this is the episode not to miss. Most parents when looking for entertainment for their children want something where they don’t have to worry about what values their kids are being taught. I can say with absolute certainty that I have found such a program. My two boys have been listening to it for several years. Not only do they STILL enjoy the program but they have been influenced by the strong values promoted in each episode. The program now ranks in the top 0.5% of podcasts globally. Not amongst faith for kids, or faith categories—but of all podcasts and all categories. In this episode we’re going to talk with Director Doug Bruce and Executive Producer Ruben Gomez of Discovery Mountain.
To learn more about Discovery Mountain, listen to episodes or audition for a part visit: https://discoverymountain.com/
Discovery Mountain is available on all of the major podcast listening apps. Discovery Mountain also has an app available free in your phone's app store.
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Have you wondered how to help your kids develop strong Christian values when it comes to athletics? Today most sporting events involve alcohol, foul language and bad tempers. In such an environment how do you teach your kids to involve God? In just a moment you’re going to hear from two guest who are both ministry leaders and former collegiate athletes who will offer their wisdom.
Brian Smith and Ed Uszynski are both experienced athletes and ministry leaders who have written a book called Away Game: A Christian Parent’s Guide to Navigating Youth Sports. Drawing on over 50 years of combined ministry experience with Athletes in Action, Brian and Ed provide parents guidance on turning youth sports into a meaningful platform for discipleship.
To learn more or to get the book, visit: https://www.thechristianathlete.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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In this episode you’re going to hear the true story of how porn completely changed a man’s life. If you’re into porn, then you’ve found this episode for a reason because the story you’re about to hear will challenge your thinking.
My guest is Emilio Buhr. Emilio has been willing to join me and share his true life’s story of the impact porn had on his life. His story is not only powerful but relatable to so many men and women and breathes hope into so many lives.
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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In this episode we’re covering a new topic we’ve never focused on before and that’s dads with ADHD kids. So if that sounds a lot like your family you’re going to want to stick around because this episode was made just for you. You will learn simple, actionable tips and discover essential resources that will empower you to help your child thrive.
Jared Kallen is the founder of Action Pact Coaching with a mission and purpose of helping ADHD and ADD youth thrive. His extensive education and his vast experience working with neurodivergent children make him a sought-after expert coach and consultant for both parents and educators. His success rates are unprecedented and speak for themselves and make him a trusted resource.
To connect with Jared, learn more or find resources, visit: https://www.actionpactcoaching.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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If you’re feeling overwhelmed and maybe out of balance between excelling at fatherhood and your career, then this is the episode to listen to. Could it be that fatherhood is the catalyst to becoming a better man both at home and in life outside the home?
My guest is Jeff Hittner. Jeff is the founder of the Ambitious Dads Project—a 30k+ newsletter and global community of dads changing definitions of success at work and at home.
To learn more about Ambitions Dads Project or to connect with Jeff Hittner, visit: https://www.ambitiousdads.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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In this episode you’re going to meet a father who experienced birth trauma and hear his story of how a nightmare birth turned into his life’s purpose. He also shares his top and most effective strategy for getting through birth trauma and thriving in life's deepest challenges. Brian Heilig is the author of Breathe, Eat, Poop & Grow.
To learn more about Brian Heilig or to connect with him, visit: https://brianheilig.com/
To purchase his book visit: https://a.co/d/bpeLeFQ
All net proceeds are going towards putting proper NICU equipment into Mexican hospitals and if we can help just one family save their baby’s life, our mission will be accomplished in His name!
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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If you or any of your children are identifying as gay or lesbian, or are considering it, this episode was meant for you. In the last episode which was part 1, Hope Harris shared her personal testimony that she was a former Lesbian and how Jesus personally restored her identity as a daughter of God. In this episode Hope shares key points to help dads who have LGBTQ children navigate through those choices.
Hope Harris is a former LGBT rights activist who publicly identified as a lesbian from a young age. She had interactions with Christians protesting at gay rights rallies and events, which led her to believe that God and His followers hated members of the LGBTQ community. Now she is teaching churches and parents how to share God's love with those who are LGBTQ and be a light to their true identity and purpose.
To connect with Hope or receive any of the free resources email: i.hopeharris@gmail.com
For the same resources mentioned in this episode you can also email: guerrero.jonathan@gmail.com
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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If you or any of your children are identifying as gay or lesbian, or are considering it, this episode was meant for you. If this decision is a struggle for you please take the time to listen through this whole episode. It’s not an accident you are hearing this. The message was meant for you and it will change your life. I’ve brought a guest who will share her own personal experience because she wants you to know you are seen, known and loved.
Hope Harris is a former LGBT rights activist who publicly identified as a lesbian from a young age. She had interactions with Christians protesting at gay rights rallies and events, which led her to believe that God and His followers hated members of the LGBTQ community. In part 1 of this episode Hope shares her story of how God reached her and revealed the truth of her identity and purpose in life and how to hear what God is trying to say to you.
To connect with Hope or receive any of the free resources mentioned in part 2, email: i.hopeharris@gmail.com
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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If I asked you right now what you were born and created to do, could you tell me? If I asked you right now to tell me your purpose could you answer me right away or would you have to think about it? For some that is the difference between what gets them out of the bed with a fire in their soul on a gloomy day or what makes them feel drained and lifeless. If you’re struggling with your answer I brought someone who can help.
Roy Wooten serves as the Executive Director of The Crucible Project, a nonprofit ministry creating a world where people live with integrity, grace and courage, fulfilling their God-given purpose.
Here are the links to The Crucible Project resources from this episode:
- Unstuck: 7 Steps to Break Free and Live Courageously - https://a.co/d/2jG0g32
- Free E-book: https://thecrucibleproject.org/unstuck/
- Crucible Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/thecrucibleproject.org
- Crucible Men's page: https://thecrucibleproject.org/crucible-weekend-for-men/
- Crucible Podcast page: https://thecrucibleproject.org/podcast/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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If you were born or raised in an abusive home, you may have had a generational curse placed on you that makes you more likely to become an abusive father/husband and take up destructive vices like alcohol pornography and drugs. But curses can be removed and you don’t have to become the way you grew up. My guest will share his story and how he broke the curses on his life and how you can too.
Andrew Southwick is a pastor, author and host of a news show called The Culture Crossroads covering current events from a Christian perspective. But I’ve brought him on to share his story of growing up abused and stopping the cycle in his own life.
To connect with Andrew Southwick directly email sodomediaco@gmail.com
To get Andrew's books or checkout his show visit: https://sodomediaproductions.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Prepare to be inspired. Today we’re talking about identity, purpose and how fathers can play an essential role in changing the world around them. You’re going to hear from a former Marine who’s done just that.
My guest is Jordan Ames. Jordan is the CEO and founder of Red Letter Leadership. He's a retired Marine with 21 years of active service under his belt. Now he uses his leadership skills with an organization called Red Letter Project in counter human trafficking missions in eastern Africa. With this distinguished background he can teach us a thing or two about identity and purpose.
To learn ore about Red Letter Project or donate, visit: https://www.redletterleadership.com/rlp
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Are you in a season of your life where you’re contemplating existential questions such as why were you born, and the meaning of life? Have you wondered what your purpose is both in and outside of fatherhood?
Adam Swedenburg joins me for an in-depth conversation about purpose and how you can find yours. Adam is a husband, father, youth pastor, EMT and podcast host.
You can learn more about Adam Swedenburg, connect with him and find his podcast at : https://linktr.ee/AdamSwedenburg?fbclid=IwY2xjawJx2_FleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHlFXUsJsm_oWsyMomFWbAnKpOMKgwSGDvj0UDMooKFCjjAWjjnNLB8u6MQ8x_aem_jui3xCyleZIS_YS51dYb6g
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If you’re thinking about listening to this episode, it’s because you want to leave a lasting legacy for your family that will last for generations. My guest is an author, speaker coach and he will share powerful and effective tips to help you start building your legacy today.
Matt Swigart is the founder of Enhance Ministries, an organization with a mission of Cultivating Fruitful ministries and healthy leaders. He’s also a coach in legacy building and that’s why I’ve brought him on the program.
To learn more about Enhance Ministries, visit: https://enhancemin.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you’re thinking about listening to this episode, it’s because you want to leave a lasting legacy for your family that will last for generations. My guest is an author, speaker coach and he will share powerful and effective tips to help you start building your legacy today.
Matt Swigart is the founder of Enhance Ministries, an organization with a mission of Cultivating Fruitful ministries and healthy leaders. He’s also a coach in legacy building and that’s why I’ve brought him on the program.
To learn more about Enhance Ministries, visit: https://enhancemin.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Do you wonder if the Bible is true, if Jesus and God are real? We are often told and expected to believe all of this and accept it by faith. But God meets us where we are and has been revealing the truth of the Bible and himself through biblical geography. Be prepared for fascinating stories that will challenge and inspire your faith.
Dr. John Beck is a biblical geographer, professor, author and the host of the fourth and final season of the 10-episode docu-series The Holy Land: Connecting the Land with Its Stories, Produced by Our Daily Bread Ministries.
To learn more about Dr. John Beck and his work visit: https://www.johnabeckauthor.com/
You can find Dr. Beck's books here: https://amzn.to/4iL4lDk
You can find Dr. Beck's YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@ourdailybread
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Have you missed your calling? Do you wonder if you’re right where you were meant to be doing what you were created to do? Or do you wish you had a fresh start? Sometimes there can be second chances. Sometimes we can be restored to our purpose. Angelo Liloc shares his story of being restored to his purpose.
Angelo is a former law enforcement officer and is now a podcaster and founder of Operation Redwood, an organization that is all about restoring manhood, rescuing children, and restoring families.
You can find and learn more about Operation Redwood here: https://www.operationredwood.org/
You can join their Facebook group and be part of the discussion here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/operationredwood/
You can find his YouTube channel and podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnCt8pzCwCRcvdW--LC224g
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Do you know why you were created? Do you know your purpose for being on this earth? If you can’t answer that question or don’t know how to find the answer, I’ve brought someone on the program who knows his answer and how to help you find your answers.
John Rennie otherwise known as “JR” is the founder of BrushFires Ministry, an interactive, God-inspired program designed to help you discover your God-given design, understand where you fit in The Body of Christ, and how to find and embrace your purpose.
To learn more about BrushFires Ministry, register for courses and assessments or to get your free book, visit: https://www.brushfires-digital.com
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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In this episode we’re going to talk about how dads can have strong intimacy and yes that includes great sex in your marriage by exploring what the original blueprint from God looks like and how you can start using it right away.
Angela Griffith joins me in this conversation. Angela is The Christian Sexpert helping married couples increase both their sexual and non-sexual intimacy. Angela holds a Bachelor’s in Religion & Psychology.
To learn more about what Angela does, get the resources mentioned in the episode or to sign up for coaching visit: https://www.thechristiansexpert.com/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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In this episode you’re going to hear the powerful story of a woman who was rejected by her father and learn her pathway to finding healing and forgiveness as well as finding her identity and purpose. She will also share some gold nuggets that will not just help you be an amazing dad but build a legacy too.
Lisa Schafer is a podcaster, author and the founder of Christian Drama Queen Solutions. She’s also an entrepreneur of several businesses.
My website and blog: www.christiandramaqueen.com
My podcast: The Chronicles of the Christian Drama Queen available on most podcasting platforms or https://www.buzzsprout.com/2181999
Free resources and joining my email list: https://freedom.christiandramaqueen.com/
Facebook profile: https://www.facebook.com/lisacarringtonschafer
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thechristiandramaqueen/
YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@christiandramaqueen
Email: lisa@christiandramaqueen if you’d like to buy a spiral bound copy of the following books available on Amazon:
Discarded: a daughter’s journey to reclaim freedom and forgive the father that left her behind
https://amzn.to/41j5QCw
The Christian Victims Guide to Forgiving the Unforgivable: A Biblical Journey to Break the Bondage of Bitterness
https://amzn.to/4i2MozB
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Transcription - What Abandonment Looks Like
In a few moments, you're going to hear the powerful story of a woman who is rejected
by her father.
You'll also learn her pathway to finding healing and forgiveness as well as finding her
identity and purpose.
It will be an amazing journey so buckle up.
This program is made possible by financial support from Smile Online Course and Books.
Smile Online offers online courses for teens and young adults designed to help them
master social and career skills.
It matter includes customer service skills, job interviewing, electronic etiquette, and managing
stress.
For more information, visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
I've asked Lisa Schaefer to join me and share her story with me.
Lisa is a podcaster and the founder of Christian Drama Queen Solutions.
She's also an entrepreneur of several businesses, so she's quite busy.
Lisa, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Oh, I'm so glad to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Lisa, let's start with your story.
Take us into your childhood and from there, your journey to finding forgiveness as well
as your identity and purpose.
Well, I was raised by my mom primarily most all my life.
My father left us when I was almost two years old.
He was a country musician and so he was just given to a lot of excesses back then in the
'60s because that's when I was born.
It was real common for these entertainers to be deeply involved in drugs and alcohol
and flandering and all of that.
And he was just no exception.
And so I think my mom being very innocent, she was a beautiful woman.
But she was very young and gullible and she thought I think that she could love enough for
them both and it just didn't work out that way.
And when he began to get violent with her and began to abuse me physically, she said that's
it.
And so they got divorced.
I never had a dad.
I was probably 16 years old by the time my mom married a man that thought he could be
a father to me.
But most of my experiences with the men in her life were really poor.
And so I spent most of my teenage years realizing that moms and dads actually come to the kids
events at school and kids events at church and he was never there for that.
And in fact, it wasn't even that he wasn't there.
He was not in any way shape or form interested in having a relationship with me.
He never sent me a card or a letter.
You know, exactly where it was, my mom was very good about just kind of making sure that
my grandparents on that side of the family knew where I was.
They never acted like they wanted to have anything to do with me either.
So evidently that kind of neglect and discarding just ran in the family.
And so by the time I hit those teen years and all the hormones kicked in, I was looking
for love in all the wrong places.
And I spent most of my mid to late teens and very, very early 20s trying to develop relationships
with all the wrong people.
And my self worth and my value and all of that was impacted by him not being around.
Later in life, I was probably 26 or 27.
I tried to reestablish a relationship with him thinking that, you know, I had some sort
of romantic idea that he would have a good excuse for not being a part of my life and not
being around.
And there was nothing.
He was the same liar.
He was the same philanderer.
He was the same abuser.
Nothing had changed.
And even when we got to a place later on where, you know, I was the oldest daughter and
therefore contacted when he became ill, he still had the audacity to say he had never
regrets for the things that had happened or really had not ever really happened in our
relationship.
And yeah, he just, he had no interest.
Oddly enough, he fathered nine children with nine different women.
And so I have siblings all over the country.
I don't even know them all.
I've not even met them all.
But I'm quite sure that we all tell similar stories.
Some of them were given up for adoption by the groupies that he was, you know, impregnating.
And some of them, I have some relationship with.
We've actually had conversations, why not?
But he was not a father to any of us at all.
So that abandonment really played a strong role in my life.
And it's what led me to do the writing that I've done where I have to address those things
that being unloved and unwanted and unprotected and all of that that happens when there's
no daddy around to let you know your worth saving or let you know your worth protecting.
So, so that's kind of, my childhood was, you know, we were impoverished.
There was no, listen back then.
There was no force in some dad to pay child support that went, if he didn't do it, he didn't
do it.
And so my mom worked really, really hard to take care of me and my younger brother.
And she took every job she could.
She was one of those women that broke through all of those barriers, you know, she was one
of the first female insurance agents in the country back in the 70s.
She became a collector.
She picked a very difficult job, but she was really good at it.
So she went to these finance companies and made their accounts better.
And so she was always getting a promotion, which meant we always moved.
I was, you know, I think I had 14 places to live by the time I was eight years old.
So there was a lot of insecurity with that.
And yet, you know, I look back and I realized how hard she was working just to try and take
care of us.
And that was the, that's what she had to do.
So, so between the lack of, of being wanted and the lack of input and protection and the
insecurity, by the time I hit my early 20s and was getting married, I took a lot of baggage
into my relationship with my husband.
And we still do with that.
We've been married 40 years, but it's, those are some mountains that you just keep
climbing.
What do you know about your own dad's generational history?
Well I know that he had a couple of sisters and three brothers.
I know that his father and mother were not strong Christians.
They were churchgoers, but they didn't, they didn't really have a strong faith or certainly
not a strong, active, obvious faith that they were living.
But they went to church and, and in fact, when I was trying to rekindle my relationship with
my father in my late 20s and trying to make something out of nothing, he was, it was quite,
he made sure he talked about Jesus like he knew him, but his actions speak far louder than
his words.
And so he was still devoted to deception.
He would try to tell me stories about things that I knew did not happen because my mother
was there.
And she would say that, that didn't happen.
Or I was there and I remember those things.
So they're just, he just was in, he was in bondage.
And now I look back and I think, and his, his, some of his siblings dealt with drug abuse
and that sort of a thing and alcoholism.
So I think there were some of that going on in, in, in most of his, in, in a lot of his family.
But like I said, I didn't get to spend any time with them growing up.
I didn't meet my grandparents really and have any kind of conversation with them until they
were having their 60th wedding anniversary.
And I just popped in to see if my dad was there.
And, and that was all because it was in the paper.
Otherwise they would, they had no idea was, you know, they had a relationship with me.
So I didn't really know a lot about them.
But little bits and pieces have told me there was a lot of dysfunction there.
I'm not exactly sure what kind of a father, my father had.
But he seems to me to have been probably very distant and very cold.
And, and that may have been due to substance abuse.
I don't know.
I'm not certain.
But I do know that, that, that his brother, one of his brothers was also given to excess
and alcoholism.
And I also know that they were kind of, my father had a car accident when he was very young.
And I don't know that maybe that created some head trauma and brain damage or something
that maybe had impact on his mental ability to deal with fathering.
I don't know.
But I do remember that because of his close call of death, his mother was very, very careful
to spoil him.
She protected him from just about everything.
And I think he just became, you know, expectant.
He kind of had this mandate.
Everybody was supposed to cater to and watch out for him and take care of him and his issues.
Sadly, regardless of his great talent, I mean, I've been told you look on the backs of those
old country albums back in the 60s and 70s, his name is there.
He was a studio player.
But he was poor, his whole life, his whole life.
And, and I have a feeling that, that his inability to control the substance problems was part
of that.
He just never could get out of that.
What lies did you believe about God as a result of being abandoned by your dad?
How did you find the truth?
About three or four years ago, I actually came home feeling like God was calling me to write
a story.
And we, I've dealt with a lot of things in my life.
I've had infertility issues.
We adopted three children.
We were an interracial family.
We've dealt with, I mean, a homeschooled kids for 25 years.
So when I came home between all of the things that I've been experienced with and, and
even things like what my kids were going through because of their abandonment issues and
being adopted.
I thought that that's what God was calling me to write about.
But when I sat down alone with him in front of the computer, that's not the message I was
getting.
It was like I just could not start the story.
And he said to me, this, this is the story I wanted to tell.
I want you to tell them how I redeemed you from your place of bitterness and bondage
to that bitterness, to a place where you could not only forgive your father and your abusers.
But you could actually find a way to love them and love me even though I was around and
allowed those things to happen.
And it is the subject that people do not want to talk about very much because one, it's
kind of ugly and painful.
And two, sometimes when we're talking about dealing with abuse, some of our abusers have
been within the body of Christ.
Now maybe they're redeemed now and they've repented and they've got their second chance.
But they don't want to talk about this and they don't want to hear you talk about this because
they've moved on.
They've got their second chance, their redeemed.
They've walked out of the past and that's all well and good.
But for someone who's lived through abandonment and abuse, you've got to get to a place where
you can, number one, stop believing the lies that you were not really wanted because God's
proven He wants you.
Stop believing the lies that you are unloved because He's loved you from the beginning.
You have to get to a place where you get to know the character of God so much that all
of those lies are seen for what they are and they're just ways of keeping you distant
from the Father.
So what I began to do took me 40 years but I began to see God's word ministering to those
emotions of feeling unseen and feeling unprotected and trying to understand how a God who says
He loves me could allow things to happen to me that were so bad.
How do I forgive the unforgivable?
And so that process, I had to start putting down on paper.
That's where the discarded Bible study and the forgiving and forgivable Bible studies
came from walking through God's word and getting close enough to the character of God that
I could see Him as a really loving Heavenly Father because there was a huge gap.
Even after I became a Christian and was in the Word and was going to church and was becoming
friends with other believers and we were good Christian people.
We didn't smoke.
We didn't drink.
You know, I'm saying I go down a whole list of legalities.
But there was a huge disconnect between what I really believed about who God was and what
I was experiencing.
And so I had to reconcile all of that and that just meant getting deeper and deeper in
His Word and getting closer and closer to Him, trusting Him to be loving and protecting
and cherishing me and wanting me and all of that.
But there was a, you know, it finally hit me.
You know, I was thinking that was just, I was having some mental problems not getting close
to God.
And why did I feel so distant?
And it was me.
It was me believing He was like my dad.
Why you calling Heavenly Father?
Father.
It's right there in the description.
So when you only, the only experience you have with fathers is bad.
Then you kind of naturally, you keep hearing Him called Father.
You assume He is as distant and as detached and as unwanting and going to be disappointed
in what you've done.
And we just developed that really artificial relationship with Him.
I, it's the honesty of His Word in my life that changed my point of view.
And when I sat down to talk about what I was going to write, that's where He said, you
need to let people know there is a way from being in the bondage of bitterness to a place
where you can forgive others.
And because you learn how to do that, you're learning to have the mind of Christ.
So that's kind of where, how I got from there to here.
Why is it critical for dads to learn and understand their generational history, both good and bad?
What's that line?
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
You know, for my father, I can't speak for everybody else's dad.
You know, so it's like, and I'm not really sure I can speak very well for my own.
But as I look back now, because he's deceased, he passed away five or six years ago.
But as I look back, I think it really would not have mattered what he knew or didn't know
about who he was supposed to be and where he came from.
I think he had a mental, I think he had some mental illness that he just never dealt with.
It was a, it was a special kind of narcissism.
It really was.
Now, my own, I will speak on behalf of my own husband.
He knew very early on that it was important for him not to be anything like his father.
He knew how he felt, you know, he wanted, he wanted to have a home where the children
wanted to be there because he knew growing up he did not want to be there.
So he had his own, you know, he had his own generational history that he had to deal with
and to get past.
And he would, I think he would say for him, once you know that you're supposed to have
this relationship with God that's authentic and forgiving and redemptive, you want to create
a place in your own home where your children want to long for that.
But if they didn't see it in their own father or grandfather or great grandfather, they're
not going to develop.
And I think he felt responsible for presenting this authentic life as a believer, which was
just something he never saw.
Now, oddly enough, he does have men in his life that stepped up when he was younger and
he realized, okay, that's what dads are supposed to look like.
Not what my dad looks like.
And I think that unless, you know, it is real important for men to know from when they came,
so to speak.
But if they're not open to the idea, I think that God, the Spirit gives them that guidance
and says, you need to long for something better than what you saw if what they saw was a
poor representation.
It just took me a long time to realize that not all daddies were like my daddy, including
God.
He was not like my daddy, but it took a long time.
It took a long time.
And it took a lot of, you know, there's just guilt and shame attached to victimization.
There's guilt and shame attached to being a bound.
And you think you did something wrong.
Eventually, you have to take your eyes off of you and look at him and realize who he really
is based on his word.
But I'm not sure if you're not open, it's going to matter.
And that's something God has to do within you.
There's a guest I've had on his name is Chris Bruno and he used the analogy of a generational
train knowing what's on the train, knowing who's on the train.
How long is that train?
What's in the cars?
How far back does it go?
And what's pulling it?
That was a critical game changer for me to understand that.
And through time and through a process where the Holy Spirit walked me through and taught
me how to forgive.
Once I got past that, I was able to go to a place where I was ready to explore the
generational components of what happened.
When I was ready to explore it, it was probably one of the most healthy experiences for me
because I came to realize what I was up against in my own personal life and my own development.
I cannot recommend there be enough.
But that was a game changer for me for understanding what I was likely to do if I didn't become
aware of it and stop it and seek God for an intervention.
If you could go back to when your dad was alive, what could your dad have said to you or
done for you that would have made you feel valued and loved?
Well, I will tell you, you might be the first interviewer that makes me cry.
You might be the first one because nobody's asked me that.
When we got to the place where my dad was dying and he was on hospice care and there
was a nurse in his house all the time taking care of me.
I was called to come and see him about just every few days because of course we were getting
to that place where they were saying, "Okay, it's probably almost time.
If you want to see him come now."
Then he'd rally and he'd get better and then he'd get bad again.
One day, I had it in my head that I would just spring a visit on him.
I would just go in and when I got there, I found him naked on his bed with no sheets,
wearing an adult diaper, no blankets, air conditioning cranked up because it was August and it
was hot.
No one was there with him.
He was left there and he was shivering.
I will tell you, I had been a caregiver, worked in medical profession for almost 30 years
by then and I was floored.
I rang up a friend of mine, she lived about 20 miles away and I said, "Please come because
he's a big man.
I can't do this by myself.
I need some help."
She dropped everything she was doing, God love her and she showed up and she helped me put sheets
on the bed and make sure he was clean and getting covered up and turned down the AC and all
of that stuff.
I had some genuine sympathy for him at that moment.
I made arrangements for a nurse to come.
I made arrangements for someone else to show up another family member to come and make
sure that someone showed up from the nursing facility or wherever the hospice center.
I was probably two or three hours that I was there and then I got my car.
There was a huge struggle within me and I write about this in my book.
There was this huge struggle because I felt such great pity for him at that moment and
immense anger.
I screamed at the top of my lungs, "Why didn't you want me?"
If he had ever shown and said to me, "Well, I did want you, but if he had had an explanation,
but just acknowledged that he wanted me, I think I would have been able to deal with that.
I think if he had said, "Well, I really wanted to take care of you, but I never had the finances
or I really wanted to see you more often, but I was working on an oil rig in the ocean."
I mean, I would have taken almost any explanation if he had just acknowledged that he wanted
me.
But I knew that was not the case and I knew that based on the lives of nine other siblings,
it was not the case.
They did not have relationship with him.
He had never been a father to them either.
I think every child, and I know for daughters with daddies, that if those fathers do not express
the daughters need to be protected and that they're willing to take that security on.
If they don't say to them, "You are worth preserving, protecting, watching over.
I'll fight for you."
I can remember time when I was nine or ten years old and I just had the tar bead out of
me by some big kid on the school bus.
My mother was living and of course she did everything she could when she found out that this had
happened and so did the teachers and guess what?
The kid never rode the bus again.
But I remember distinctly thinking if my dad had been here, he could have protected me.
Of course he wasn't.
He never was.
If he had just said to me, "I really did want you."
But unfortunately, clear up to the last lucid conversation I had with him, he was still
saying things like, "Well, you know, I've lived a weird life, but I've got no regrets."
I was like, "Really?
You've got no regrets?
Not what you can't say just one time.
I wish I had more to do with your life."
It took a lot of me convincing myself that he missed out.
I was a good kid for the most part.
I was in junior miss.
I was in performing arts.
I got scholarships to art schools.
You know, there was all these good things in my life and the only thing I really wanted
was a dad.
But it took me a long time to realize he was the one that missed out by not wanting to
be a part of my life because for the longest time, it was all, I thought I was missing out
on having a father.
Obviously I was, but that was having far greater impact than the truth that he was really
the one missing out on our relationship.
What lies did you believe about yourself and how did God reveal what was true about you?
Of course, I believed all of the things that I've written about.
I was unloved, unwanted, uncharish, undesirable, unworthy, unprotected, unseen, all of those things.
I believed all of that to be true.
And I didn't, you know, I know some people have experiences where the Holy Spirit hits
them on the head and all of a sudden they believe all the truths and they're good.
I didn't, that didn't happen to me.
I was sitting in a service one day after we had started going to church as a married couple
of my husband and I.
And it was a father's day sermon.
And at the time my husband and I were dealing with infertility.
So we didn't have children.
Fathers day services were hard for both of us because his father committed suicide when he
was young and my father was just not around.
So we didn't have good experiences with dads.
And so I was sitting in this father's day service and it was the first time I'd ever heard
this verse about God being the father to the fatherless and it zoned in on my heart.
It was like, I know you don't believe it because you haven't seen it and I know you're mad
at me because you were molested when you were four.
And I know you don't think that I can forgive you even though I keep telling you as far as
the east is from the west.
That's how far your transgressions have been removed from me.
I know you don't believe that but I am telling you you've never been fatherless because
I have been your father.
And that's when my journey started to really get clarification about who he was and
what he really saw in me.
And so the lies and believe me when you have 40 or 50 or 60 years worth of history being
a discarded daughter or an abuse victim, you don't get over those emotions just because God
all of a sudden says you should.
They revisit.
So I know I'm loved but I still have days when I don't feel very loved and I know I'm
seen but there are times when I think he didn't see what happened to me.
You know, there are, you know, this is just part of the growth process for you to have two
steps forward and one step back in those areas.
That's just normal.
And you can't carry the guilt of not accepting everything all at once like a hurricane.
You know, like there was no tidal wave of truth that swept over me and man, I just soaked
it all up.
And now I'm walking with Jesus loved and precious and cherished and worthy and all of that stuff.
It didn't happen to me that way.
It took time for me to see God's word applied to all of those lies and my life.
So that sermon started it for me.
That, listen, he really is the father to the fatherless and understanding I was never without
him.
I just thought I was without him.
That's kind of what's that that set me off on the journey of battling all the untruths.
How can listeners reach out to you, learn more or listen to your podcast?
My Bible studies are available on Amazon.
Discarded, a daughter's journey to reclaim freedom and forgive the father who left her behind,
which is a very long title and my writing coach said you really want to shorten that, but
I haven't done it.
And the other one is called the Christian Victims Guide to forgiving the unforgivable.
There's also a planner on Amazon that let that you walk in the word and memorize scripture
as you go through the studies, but they're undated so you can use them whenever.
So those are all available there, but what I tell people, shoot me an email.
Lisa at Christian drama queen.com.
Lisa at Christian drama queen.com.
You can buy those all of those books for me and I'll spyro bind them for you.
People can ask me there or they can go.
My podcast is available on, on almost all podcasts platforms.
It's called the Chronicles of the Christian drama queen.
And of course, I have a website, Christian drama queen.com that they could go to.
There's even some free assessment tools there where they can find out.
Maybe they think they've dealt with all that bitterness, but if they've got some certain
behaviors, rage that seems uncontrollable or self-doubt or the need to finish every
argument with resolution, never being able to walk away from an argument having to
be right.
All the time, there are just several things that are kind of part and parcel to being someone
who's still bitter.
And so that assessment's free and it's available if they go to the Christian drama queen website.
And of course, you can find me on YouTube if you just want to see where this gorgeous voice
is coming from.
You just go to YouTube and you look up Christian drama queen and you'll find my podcasts
there.
So I have a video for pretty much all of my podcasts, audios.
So.
Just to make things easier if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I will have all
of the links posted there for convenience.
Lisa, as we close, what is your challenge to dad's listening now?
Daughters are born and built with a deep seeded need for fathering, parenting, yes, but not
just parenting, fathering.
Daughters that see them as the priceless, precious, jewel and princess that they really are.
And if that is not taught to them, the world is going to teach her enough that she's not
good enough, that she's not the beautiful, that she's not precious to God because there's
a daddy-sized hole in every daughter's heart.
It's up to our daddies to make us feel like we're precious princesses.
Lisa, it has been an honor having you on the fatherhoodchallenge.
This has been a very, very important conversation that I wanted this audience to hear and you
were the perfect person to deliver that message.
Thank you so much for that.
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate it, I do.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in
this program or find out more information about the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
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Most of the episodes of The Fatherhood Challenge talk about what men contribute to fatherlessness physically, emotionally and spiritually, because it’s true. Men do have a role in the fatherlessness problem. But men aren’t the only cause nor are they the only solution. My guest Carrie Ann Barrette talks more about this with me in this episode.
Carrie Ann Barrette is a Mental Health Counselor, an author, speaker, elder and discipler of countless women. She is also the founder and CEO of Kingdom Life Advisors, a ministry and service that has helped countless women heal and find their true identity and purpose.
To learn more about Carrie, visit: https://carrieannbarrette.com/
To learn more about Kingdom Life Advisors, visit: https://kingdomlifeadvisors.com/
To get Carrie's book Put Your Crown On, visit: https://amzn.to/4hK9niC
Visit Carrie's YouTube Channel at: https://www.youtube.com/@CarrieAnnBarrette
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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Transcription - Men and Women Fighting Fatherlessness Together
Most of the episodes on the Fatherhood Challenge talk about what men contribute to Father
Listeners physically, emotionally, and spiritually because it's true.
Men do have a role in the Father Listeners problem, but men aren't the only cause nor are
they the only solution.
My guest is here to talk more about this with me in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.
This program is made possible by financial support from Smile Online Course and Books.
Smile Online offers online courses for teens and young adults designed to help the master
social and career skills.
Subject matter includes customer service skills, job interviewing, electronic etiquette, and
managing stress.
For more information, visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to
take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their families environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is mental health counselor.
She's also an author, speaker, elder, and a cipler of countless women.
She's also the founder and CEO of Kingdom Life Advisors, a ministry and service that has
helped countless women heal and find their true identity and purpose.
Carrie Ann Barrett, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Oh, it's good to be here.
Good to connect with you, Jonathan.
Carrie, please share your story with me of how and why you started helping women heal and
connect with who they are.
Yeah, I feel like the Lord has always had me helping people since I was young.
It's very strange.
Even my teacher wrote down in a report card that I was her counselor.
So I don't know.
I've just got this gift that God gave me and I don't know why, but he's using it.
But my story a little bit is that I tried to build a castle of my own and it just didn't
work.
I went in, I was trying to go to college, to get my degree, to build this empire of a job
that I thought I was going to have when I was trying to find the husband that I was supposed
to have, to build this family that I was supposed to have and I was trying to build and build
and build.
All I did was make a mess.
I say that when I was 13, I found my ticket to heaven because I was afraid of dying and
so my mother called the pastor that asked him the questions of figure out why I couldn't
sleep.
And when he came, he shared the gospel and I said, all right, I'll take that and I take
his a heaven.
I don't have to worry about going to hell.
I don't have to worry about what dying looks like, but I also didn't get discipleship.
So as I was building my kingdom, I didn't have Jesus.
I didn't know how to build.
I just was trying really hard.
I did kind of read the Bible here and there and so forth.
But it didn't go well and I made a lot of mistakes.
And one day, I just thought of just ending it all and when I did that, it was so terrifying
to think of doing that.
I actually called on the name of Jesus and he came in the room and he asked me this one
question, which was the most poignant question anyone ever gets asked and it was he asked,
are you ready to follow me?
And that was my spirit changing, my life changed question, everything.
And I said, yes.
So when the Lord is in the room and he asked you to follow him, what are you going to do?
Say no.
I mean, I'm sure some people do.
There was no other answer to that question.
So I was following him and ended up just as I was building that kingdom and I'm losing my
job.
But within 24 hours, I knew that he wanted me to go back to school and to study his words.
I went to seminary and got some degrees.
I tried to be a pastor.
And then I didn't work out because Greek and I don't seem to get along me and grammar
who don't seem to get along in Greek.
And so working with professors, they say, if you want to really help women, why don't you
go into counseling major and so I switched over and all the rest of history just been helping
women ever since then ministering to them, helping them to understand who and whose they
are so they can be set free and walk with the Lord.
So that's my story in a very, very short nutshell.
The father had challenged can sometimes be strong about holding men accountable and often
men and women are the source of fatherlessness and they are also the solution.
But maybe just maybe I don't have all of the pieces to the problem or the solution.
So what do you see from your perspective?
It's both and I want to go back to the garden of Eden and talk about how things were
supposed to be different because if you really think about it, there's one big thing
that if Adam had done it right, everything would have been different.
I heard somebody say, and I wish I could go back and remember or figure out who it is that
said it.
But the person said, you know, if Adam had not the apple out of that Satan's hand and
said not today Satan, that's my woman.
I'm helping her.
I'm protecting her.
I'm taking over because I'm the rule and reign righteously upon the land.
Everything would have been different.
And you know what, women still want that.
Now we'll do it on our own.
We'll push men out.
We will do everything we have to do to control life and to be safe and feel secure.
But quite honestly, there is no woman that I've ever known that would not want tarzan
to swing in and protect her and make everything okay.
You know, sweep her off her feet and say how wonderful she is and how he's going to take
care of her for the rest of her life.
Like that is actually what we want and that is what the good father does, right?
This is what Jesus says.
He takes care of us coming in, being albe, your protector, albe, your savior.
We all want that.
Like that's what women really want.
And in part, that's what men really want.
They want the father to come in and take care of business, take care of them.
But I think if we go back to that, that is where the whole riff began.
That is where women started to not trust men.
Women weren't allowed to be who they were meant to be.
They were meant to be the easier or the helper and we weren't allowed to do that.
And things got all messed up.
So it's just a trickle down from there.
One way I've heard that described is replicating the curse of the garden.
When we read what happened and what God's response was to the sin and the excuses, God
pronounced judgment and said that the man will rule over you.
And so what we do is when we read that, we interpret that as that's the way it's supposed
to be.
No, that was the consequence of their actions.
Exactly.
That wasn't that that was never how God wanted it to be.
He didn't want women to come over men.
We were meant to walk beside men, but men were created stronger.
And I hate women hate to talk about this, but let's just be real.
Testosterone is real.
And men were meant to be stronger and women were meant to be more empathetic and more caring
and loving.
And so that's how we were designed.
We don't have to like it.
You don't have to like it, but that's how we were constructed in humanity.
And so that was how God designed it to be.
I always like to talk about the lions and the lionesses.
And God uses the lions as a way to talk about us anyway, but the lions are roaming and taking
care of the land and they are strong, mighty warriors, right?
And the women are home.
The lionesses are home.
They're taking care of their young, but they can still kick the butt of.
Many hyena that comes near their baby like they are strong too, well, they're not weak.
You know, they can both take care of business, but they have different roles and we have different
roles.
It doesn't mean one role is bad, one role is good and I doesn't mean a woman can't go and
work.
We can.
World War II proved it.
World War II made sure that we know that we can go out and work and we can go ahead
and build a company.
That doesn't mean it's the way it's best.
It just means we can.
We can do a lot of things.
They can say to Jesus, he could do a lot of things, but we have to know who and who's we are
and that yes, of course, we can do that, but that doesn't mean we have to do that.
We're okay with the three in one concept, but all of a sudden we have a problem with it
when it comes to how genders relate to each other, but that's exactly what the image of
God means is that there is that equality.
Yes, different.
God made male and female different on purpose both strong and different ways and even stronger
together as a result.
If we're willing to come together in humility and love and purpose together, yes.
Is there a link between feminism and fatherlessness and if so, what is it and why?
Absolutely, there absolutely is and we can talk about really far back history or really
recent history and see that play out.
We can talk about the timeline of the world and watch it.
One specific area just to talk about recent history is I mentioned World War II.
In World War II and even before then, in World War I, there was a great depression.
A lot of men lost their jobs, their livelihood, their loss, their identity and women started
to wrestle with men because women started to understand that they had lost their identity.
They had lost their drive and their vision of capability to be able to take care of the
home, to care the family and then it started to shift the relationship.
You can see it even stronger in World War II where women went to work.
You can see the poster of the woman with her strong muscle and she's like, "I can do
it.
I can do anything you can do."
That doesn't mean you can, but you can, you can step out of the home and you can go to
work and the men come home from war defeated.
There's this relationship where everybody is broken.
Men don't have the job, they don't have the funds, the women who have the job, they have
the funds and everything gets flipped upside down.
Nobody is in the home taking care of the children.
Nobody is in the home.
Then we do even further more recently after we've got the sexual revolution and we've got
all the feminism that comes in.
We've got women that are completely outside the home, not only do they not need the man
working because they can work, they don't even need the man at home and the divorce rate
went through the roof.
We don't need a man.
We can do everything.
We can be the father, we can be the mother, we can be the provider, we can do it all
in what happens to child at home, the latch key kid has no vision of what a true father,
mother relationship should be.
They have a no idea of what an honoring relationship between man and woman is because they don't
number one have them in the home and they don't have that ideal that the two can love one
another in this unified relationship.
You can see that played out really strongly in the child of the eighties and you can see
it extraordinarily played out in the eighties where almost every program shows the man is ignorant
and stupid and the woman needs not that man except for a sexual interaction where they
feel good and they leave and go about their business when they're done.
I mean that is what I was programmed into.
I watched soap operas, I watched Dynasty, I watched these shows like the only one that
was actually a good guy I think was Michael J. Foxx and that was why he was like the poster
child for the boy in the eighties because he was not that kind but the men were either
stupid or they were womanizing and the women were either the housewife that was looked
down upon or she was out in the working world where she had it all together and she used
men like a tissue.
Like this is what we grew up in but you know it's crazy is this is nothing new under the
sun.
If you look back if you look back and study Ephesians and the book of Ephesians was written
into the church of Ephesus, women were in charge, women were gods and that is why he wrote
I will have you teaching none of that.
Like I will not allow a woman to teach that and that's the that they were talking about
if you read Dr. Kroger's book, talking about that.
He talks about how women were teaching that they were gods.
Like they were all we don't need a man in fact you're the slaves in this town you get out
of here right and going to rule the roost and I make the decisions and that is what we've
kind of getting we're getting back to we're getting back to this where we're idolizing
the women and the men are stupid and if they're not stupid then they're just useless and
it's just broken.
How do we raise little boys?
How do we raise little girls to understand right relationship where the man is not honored
as good it's good that he's strong it's good that he can take care of the home and how
if we women aren't letting the man take care of the home.
If we're doing it all ourselves how are we raising men and women to first fall love each
other.
Second of all come into what is supposed to be a marriage of oneness where we help each
other and lift each other up and respect each other.
How do we do that?
I think it's really really broken.
What you actually do for a living is you deal on a daily basis with the consequences of
this broken system.
A lot of broken women who are victims because of this false ideology of the way it was meant
to be is it a long process to get women restored back to the way it should be?
Well that's a two full question in part it can be fast to get a lot of the healing because
the Holy Spirit does most of the work but it can also be a long process of reprogramming
and most of the women that I work with there's the sexual abuse of some sort.
The whole abuse is such a big deal that most people don't understand so it's like 90% of
the women in the world have been sexually abused in some way, shape or form.
It used to be 70% that they used to talk about but really I would say it's 90% is reality
which is a really horrible number but most of the women that I meet with there are some
sort of traumatic whether even if it's not sexual it's some sort of family of evil that
was going on in their house you know their parents got a divorce their parents were fighting
you know there's something going on that I help women to detach from like because usually
they're still a hook in them from whatever happened when they were three five ten whatever
and fifteen maybe you know and they're still kind of hooked in that and so they're still
bleeding and they're still struggling and they're still still stumbling so what we can
do is we can the Lord I partner with the Lord so that he can unhook them from that
set them free from that so even though it's true it can be thought of differently so that
the pain isn't so resonant there and they can go forward without that pain so it doesn't
change the fact that things actually have it but it changed how it impacts them going
forward and how they can think differently because God says you know you will know the truth
and the truth will set you free so if we can understand the truth of what really happened
or how God saw it and how God wants to deal with it then the women can be set free and I
got to tell you sometimes it can happen in just a few hours sometimes it takes a few
years sometimes it takes months for that to happen but usually the Lord brings the women
back to an understanding of that experience that is different and they're understanding
of the same thing is different because they he talks about who we are in him how we
are daughters how we are loved how he created us to love us and how his love is perfect
it's not like the love we've experienced on this planet so a lot of that reprogramming
is what sets the woman free and it's really the Holy Spirit doing the work that is the
Holy Spirit will bring to mind things that set that woman free and I'm just here as a
partner of him to do that.
A woman who is restored to her true identity and purpose and understands her value and
her worth eternally spiritually is a powerful force.
There's nothing like it.
There's nothing like it and this is what I think that everything from the Gen X and the
generations that follow are so starved for my generation I'm a Gen X or I'm a latch key
kid that's the way I grew up and so I grew up with this mindset that I don't need my parents
right.
I can raise myself and so I'm going to go flip into a very uncomfortable conversation and
that is pornography so you mentioned the way women are just like okay so I can just go
use this woman for my pleasure and then I'm done with her and then I move on.
Women learn I can use that for power to get what I want.
Oh you nailed it absolutely.
The women have used that for power and then we make the man feel guilty because we used
it for power.
Woof.
And it's all about power because in pornography you can take a fantasy and in that fantasy
through pornography you can make a woman do whatever you want her to do.
So the blunt word for it is she is now your slave.
Instead of your easer she is your slave.
Right women get the message that they are not valuable they're just property they're just
a piece of meat for someone else's pleasure so then there's the devaluation of God's creation
that happens in that entire process.
So the both sides are doing the same thing both sides want to be worthy and we want to have
power because we have fear that we are we are not covered by anyone and we're not valued
by anyone.
So we'll do whatever we can to build our own kingdom to build our own tower to build our
own identity because we don't have those things instead of working together in pure unity
to build together something that will stand.
Yeah that's exactly it.
It's a war for power and when that war for power happens it means that there's a vacuum
of something else that should be there that should have been there and is not the only
solution and not to sound stereotypical.
The solution is Jesus.
But is he's the only one who can fix this broken system.
Everyone both sides both men and women have to come back and learn or in some cases relearn
their true identity and purpose for which they were created for before they were even conceived.
And I think the part of the missing piece is that we know we need Jesus to get into heaven.
We don't understand that we get Jesus to get unity with the Father and to get in that
perfect sonship that we've been looking for that perfect approval and love that acceptance.
If we can get that approval like every little boy wants approval from their Father.
I mean by on anything if they can get that approval from a perfect loving strong Father that
is like everything to them and it still is you can take a 90 year old man and they still
need that acceptance that approval from a perfect Father that said well done my son well done.
And that is what we're all searching for women too.
We are looking for that well done.
We just need to know that we are daughters and sons of the king and already accepted,
already loved.
He calls us beloved like we are already loved and the only difference is the lie and the
sin that severed our relationship with the perfect Father.
If we can bring that understanding in as we can understand that you know under the blood
our relationship with that perfect Father is in fact restored then everything else is
a done deal.
It is literally like the matrix one of my favorite movies it is like the matrix if we can just
understand the reality of the kingdom of heaven that is now and the reality that we
are sons seated on a throne of glory in heaven even now that is life changing.
And if we can walk in that reality we can enter we talked about before the video we can
enter his rest and we can just relax and not think we need to build and do and control
and be afraid you know what none of that is reality that's all a matrix of Satan who is
trying to break us from the reality that we can have this relationship with the Father
and a guard relationship with man and woman we can have that oneness if we will stop fighting
to control and to build and to be afraid if we will stop all that and we can just rest
like you know what we are here together we can build together I can respect my husband
he can love me I love that book love and respect.
Okay we can love each other but he is going to respect I am going to respect him and he is
going to love me and we are going to be good.
I think there is this aspect of reality and this is why I love that you brought the matrix
up because the story of in the matrix is all about reality coming back to pornography
pornography is all about removing you from reality it is about disconnecting you from reality
God is all about being present with you in reality which is the way it was supposed to
be so when we have these relationships restored between husband and wife between the way
we see others around us and we have these healthy boundaries healthy respect in the relationship
and marriage relationship this healthy love reality is beautiful.
You will find it will be like stepping out of the matrix everything is is sunny again the
colors are greener everything is so much better and the best part about it is it is real.
Yeah because you don't have the faith in anyone else.
Yeah I am not looking for my husband to fill my cup he is not looking for me to fill his
cup because Jesus fills our cup and we are full so we are not vying for anything we are
just in good relationship together.
When you both have full cups you can drink from each other's cup you can spill over it
you can have fun with it and it never runs out because you are not the one filling it
in your spouse isn't filling your cup either.
That takes so much pressure off so you can actually enjoy each other.
This is what I think of as returning back to Eden the way God meant it to be.
You know I was thinking this morning the Lord showed me a verse I was about he spoke excuse
me he was speaking to Moses and he says my presence will go with you and I will give you
rest and that's what we need in our marriage right that's what we need in our relationships
his presence to come with us and he will give us rest he was about to enter the promise
land in fact he didn't get to but he you know if we we go and bring his presence we can
in fact enter the promise land the promise land is actually our relationships it's actually
our family the family is the promise land it's not about the land the earth we already
roll and rain over the earth by the way we are already supposed to have dominion take
the land that's already done deal we are lied to that we don't actually own this land
and don't run this land rule this land or supposed to do is rain in our family he said
we're supposed to be fruitful and multiply that family is the raining that family is the
the truth of what we're looking for about it's so broken that you know we're we wrestle
with having one child not the 14 that our ancestors used to have because we're so broken
and we just need so much healing the Holy Spirit wants to do it he's very very focused on
doing that and healing our families but we got a long way to go.
Rulkin dad's play and truly being a solution and not a problem.
Yeah there's there's two things I was thinking about this one is this is really hard for a man
but man needs to empty himself of himself and fill himself with Holy Spirit because I think
a man is trying so hard to be something and it's all broken you know and then if you can
empty that and say you know what I can be humble when I say got nothing but Holy Spirit
help me and Holy Spirit will then rebuild right he will fill up and rebuild so that you can
go do the things that you're called to do and then I saw recently that one of the best
movies I've ever seen it was the Forge I don't know if you've seen that Jonathan I highly
recommended but it's about becoming an example to then make examples so becoming the disciple
the to then disciple so because if you're a strong man of God and I mean that in a good
sense I don't mean you're beating your wife on the weekends I mean you're a strong solid
faithful peace filled man of God then you can then be an example to your own children
to other children that is what discipling is to being solid in the faith and the peace
of God that you don't need anything else to fill your cup except for Jesus and then you
can go ahead and disciple other men of God and if we can do both me as a woman and and
Jonathan you as a male if we can do this we can replicate what we were supposed to replicate
from the beginning which is ones that honor each other honor God serve God serve each other
and build each other up into the fullness of discipleship where we can be the free children
of God and walk in this land as we reign and rule instead of Satan who's prowling around
like a lion looking who he can devour like that is what we need to do I'm actually creating
a women's group in New England to do that but I think around the world we need to start
replicating what was seen in the movie The Forge so we can go ahead be honorable men and
women of God and then replicate he's been really showing me the Lord's been really showing
me that now is the time that we need to activate those people that are strong and honorable
men and women of God because if we don't start changing things now it's not going to get
any better up now at the end it's not going to be pretty anyway but we need to be ready for
the harvest that he's bringing because there's so many loss that he wants to bring in right
now he's like get ready because it's coming get ready now so that you can bring in you
can't go fishing until you've been cleaned up to go fishing for men right so man you need
to be cleaned up with him with the word with the truth with the Holy Spirit dwelling
in you so that you can go fishing and every man likes to go on fishing is very human and
don't like go fishing but you're going to be a fisher of men so you have to get cleaned
up first and that doesn't mean you have to be like oh I'm not good enough you know you're
not good enough Holy Spirit's good enough let him in you you can be good enough to tell
me more about kingdom life advisors and how listeners can find information absolutely
there's a couple different things that I do and so I've a book called Put Your Crown on
which is all about our identity in Christ for men and women is about how you can understand
and then walk in the truth of the kingdom the truth of your role and identity as a son of
God there's also videos on my YouTube channel Carrie and Barrett and you can listen to all
the interviews about their story for God's glory of how God intervened and interceded in
people's lives and then yeah the kingdom life advisors is the one and one coaching that
I do I mixed counseling coaching and ministry altogether in a new package called the kingdom
life advisor where I help women to be set free of the struggles that we talked about today
all those things that get in the way of us really being strong women of God and I don't mean
that in the in the controlling strong I mean in the peaceful restful strong and how we can
move forward in victory so that's kingdom life advisors dot com and some you can go and
apply to work with me you or or your wife because most of the men are listening so your wife
can go apply and work with me so they can be set free.
Carrie as we close what is your challenge to dad's listening now two things one is watch
the forge and just understand that whole concept that really will bring you to a deeper understanding
of what God is calling people to now and then it is take I challenge you to enter his rest
the word says that we are to strive to enter his rest when we enter his rest we stop striving
to do all the stuff that we've building and we just enter his rest that he's going to take
care of us he's going to walk with us he's going to help us to win the battle he's going
to be our victor because he's already won the victory and if we can enter his rest we
stop all the striving so just I encourage you to spend the next year as I've been the
last two years entering his rest and that way you'll stand in victory and you'll no longer
have to fight.
Carrie it has been an honor having you on the fatherhood challenge thank you so much for
sharing all these truths with us and sharing about what you do thank you Jonathan it's been
great.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge if you'd like to
contact us listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find
out more information about the fatherhood challenge please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com
that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com
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At the time this episode was created it was estimated that over 3 million children have been stolen and forced into sex and labor trafficking. You’re going to meet a man who’s mission and purpose is rescuing those children and restoring them back to their God given identity and purpose in love. He will share his experiences in rescuing over 11,000 children.
My guest is author, pastor and modern day child slavery abolitionist Troy Brewer. Troy is also the founder of Troy Brewer Ministries, an organization committed to rescuing, nurturing and sheltering trafficked children.
To learn more about Troy Brewer Ministries or to get involved, visit: https://troybrewer.com/
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Transcript - From Child Sex Slavery to Freedom
At the time this episode was created, it was estimated that over 3 million children have
been stolen and forced into sex and labor trafficking.
You're going to meet a man whose mission and purpose is rescuing those children and
restoring them back to their God-given identity and purpose in love.
He will share his experience in rescuing over 11,000 children in just a moment, so don't
go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important
fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is author, pastor, and modern day child slavery abolitionist Troy Brewer.
Troy is also the founder of Troy Brewer Ministries and Organization committed to rescuing,
nurturing, and sheltering traffic children.
Troy, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Jonathan, what a great privilege it is.
Thank you so much for having me, my friend.
Okay, here's one of my favorite questions to start off.
What is your favorite dad joke?
I have some, I have some awesome dad jokes because we actually send out a dad joke every
single week on a, like this robo call thing, but you know what, I don't know that this is
a dad joke, but it's something I say all the time and it's so real is I used to be extremely
fat.
I used to be like 400, between 400 and 500 pounds and I used to tell everybody I was
worldwide before the internet.
That's what I tell them.
That's true.
It's absolutely true.
All right.
Well, Troy, what is your story behind why and how you were called to start your ministry
as a pastor and rescuing children?
Well, you know what Jonathan, I didn't intend on rescuing kids.
It was just something that God just brought me off into what I intended on doing was building
food banks all over the world.
And I have an act for building food banks.
I played in a Christian rock band from 86 until 91 and we traveled the world.
We did all kinds of cool stuff and my favorite thing was actually doing the gigs where we
were feeding people.
And so I started a food bank here in Johnson County, Texas, which I know that you're very
familiar with.
You grew up in keen.
You were telling me before we went on air, which is crazy.
I mean, we're both Johnson County boys.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
We grew up about 10 miles from you in keen.
I grew up in Joshua, Texas.
And that's also where our food bank is.
And the people that were giving me food and asked me, I started asking or they started asking
me, Hey, man, do you do a work in Central America?
And I was like, well, no, not really.
But I could and they're like, we would give you food there if you would start a food bank
there.
So I went down to Costa Rica, started the food bank.
We went into the trash dumps to feed everybody and to invite people to start coming and
getting food from us.
And while I was there, a lady tried to sell me two little Nicaragua and refugee girls.
And she walked up to me and said, Hey, you want to buy these kids?
And she was talking to Spanish and I was thinking, I'm not hearing this right.
You know, I'm not translating it right.
And sure enough, that's what she was trying to do.
And then she said, you could make a movie.
And when she said that, I was like, wow, my first reaction was I wanted to run off screaming
like, you know, my head was on fire.
But I didn't.
I stood there and looked at her and I said, yeah, I'll buy them right now.
How much?
And she says $60.
Wow.
And I've reached in my back pocket and I pulled out 120 bucks and I bought those two little
girls and literally walked across the trash dump with them holding their hands.
They were both nine or 10 and a little bitty skinny things that were starving and they just
went with me and I went and took them to my wife and said, look at this and told my team.
So this actually just happened and we got to take care of these kids to make a very long story.
Short, we got them into a home and then every time I went into a trash dump, I just started
looking and they were there.
And before long, we had four, then we had 10, then we had 20 and now we have raised thousands
and thousands.
We've rescued over 11,000 kids and that was 30 years ago.
So yeah, that's how I got all got started.
Your believer, I'm a believer.
We have been redeemed.
We have been saved.
We've been pulled out of the trash dumps and given a different life, you know, and that's
what Jesus does.
So to me, it's a perfect demonstration of Jesus and his kingdom and I, it's a joy.
It's a joy.
It's not always a joy, but it's always a terrible privilege.
And there are times, you know, that it's very difficult.
There's been a very difficult challenges through the years.
There's always difficulty in funding this thing because, you know, raising kids is a money
pit.
And I have four biological kids and then I have over 4,400 kids that are in homes all across
the world.
And it's just a huge money pit.
So it's one thing to rescue a child.
It's another thing to actually raise that child and to put them in a home that you would
put your own grandchildren in.
And those kinds of challenges though are actually the least of the challenges that we
have faced in raising these kids.
And so it's a lot.
I would say the majority of the cases that we have throughout the world, it's actually
the parents that are actually trafficking the kids.
And so you cannot send them back.
You can't take them back.
You can't be a part of it.
And so there's no cookie cutter way to rescue kids and erase kids.
Every single one of them have a specific need and they have specific challenges and you
have to be willing to be like simple gumbee, you know, through the whole thing.
You know, you got to be always ready, always prepared to be flexible concerning the needs
of every single child and what their situation is.
We love stories on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please share some stories of some of the girls that you have rescued.
I would say one of my favorite rescue stories is one of the first times I rescued somebody
in India.
I had a driver and his name was Prakash.
And Prakash's job was to get me five different churches on a Sunday starting in the morning.
And they just work you like a government mule when you go over there to India.
They line you up with 2000 gigs and they just, I literally would have to get an IV.
I would be so dehydrated.
It was so hot.
And I've learned since then, no, no, no, I'm not doing that anymore.
Back in the day when I was still young, Prakash was taking me to five different churches.
We were on our third or our fourth church.
I would say actually our second or our third or our third church, we were headed towards
our third church is what it was.
And he just non-shallotly as we passed this building, he said, that is a house of ill-repute.
Which those are not terms that I would use, you know, I was like, and his accent was so
harsh, he's like, this is a house of ill-repute.
And I was like, what?
And I was like, repeat that, repeat that.
Repeat that.
He told me that that's a cat house and he said, they are not having cats there.
And I was like, I know what, I've been growing up a long time, Prakash.
I know what goes on in there.
And instantly, I just, I call it, I'm just going to weird out.
So just, you put up with me, okay, Jonathan?
I had the Lord show me three things like flashcards.
And it was little girl.
But there is a little girl, she is a little girl and she has been abducted and you're going
to walk out with her.
And I just told him, I just instantly thought that, boom, boom, boom.
And it was like three things in a row.
And I went, turn around, I want to go in there.
And he said, no, no, no, it's a turnaround.
I want to go in there.
And so he turned around and he was thoroughly discussed with me, thinking, oh yeah, the
great American pastor.
He's got to stop by a cat house, you know, in between churches, you know.
And I told him, keep the car running.
So he just put it in park and I went in there.
Well, they had a bar and they had a bar.
The first part of it was a nice room.
There were some couches in there.
There was some young girls in there, meaning late teenage girls, early 20s and they were
in there and I walked in there and I'm just going to tell you and tell your audience,
I went straight up to the bar and started talking to everybody in there.
I'm like, hey, what's going on?
I'm from Texas.
Where are you all from?
Hey, and I'm just, I got that kind of a personality and I'm just trying to see is it possible?
It was, is there actually a child that I can rescue here because I felt like that God had
shown that to me.
And so I asked him, hey, do you have any little girls?
And they said, well, how little?
And I said, do you have any, any little ones?
And they said, yeah, well, we actually have two girls and a boy and the one of them is sick
and so you can't see her.
And the other two are in school.
Now school only goes to the seventh grade.
So these are six graders or below.
And I'm like, well, what about this sick one?
What about that one?
And they're like, well, she's not prepared and she hasn't been here very long and she hasn't
learned the proper protocols.
And I'm like, oh, you got a difficult one.
I want to see this difficult one.
And I'm just talking to him and there went, okay, so they're going about 15 minutes.
They come back.
They walked me down this hall and Jonathan, I'm telling you right now, I was horrified.
When I left that room, they took me down a hall and then I went down another hall and this
other hall was dark.
And I am passing doors that have padlocks on the outside of the doors and I'm thinking,
okay, there is three guys with me now.
And one time I'm thinking, I can take this guy.
I can break his jaw.
That's what I'm thinking.
The next guy, I'm like, I don't know.
And the third guy, I'm like, I'm running from that dude.
I'm going to have, these guys are going to kill me.
And I'm like, I'm just a pastor.
I don't even know what the heck I'm doing.
This is 20 something years ago and I'm like, this is craziness.
We get all the way down the hall, the very last door, all the way down the hall, which
was considerably, you know, was a long ways to me.
The door was open.
There was one light hanging down from the ceiling and it was a blue light and the reason why
it was blue was because this little girl was so beat up and this little girl was so sick
and she was so starving and she was so, they didn't want me to see how bad she looked.
And she was wearing a white dress and she was sitting on the edge of this little bitty,
tiny, caught bed with her hands like this and she was just sitting here just in her hands
like in the way that you know, you would hold them in prayer perhaps.
And I said, oh, so there she is.
And I was like, so I started talking to him and I was like, and they're like, okay, well,
we'll leave you.
And I was like, no, no, no, I'm taking her with me.
I'm taking her with me.
Let's go.
And they're like, no, no, no, you're not taking her anywhere.
I'm like, yes, I am.
I'm like, this place is filthy.
I'm a guy with money.
I have a nice hotel.
I'm taking her with me.
And they're like, well, that's not possible.
I'm like, it is possible.
Like, here it is.
Like, how much?
I just start forking out money.
Forking out money.
Forking out money.
And by the grace of God, they just said, yeah, give me that water cash.
And you can take her and like, when will you be back?
You know, we'll send somebody with you, of course.
Will you be back in two hours, three hours, four hours?
And I said, I'll be back in four hours.
And they said, okay, I walked out with her.
And I got to the car.
They didn't follow me immediately.
They were like holding this, there was like this wild thing that happened where they were
just kind of standing there looking at each other like a couple of drunken hillbillies
over this water cash.
And they're looking at like, kind of like laughing.
And I, oh my gosh.
And dude, I just walked out with her and I went out, got in the car.
Procesh would not allow me to get in the car when he saw that I had this girl with me.
He's like, no, no, no.
I'm like, yes, yes, yes.
He finally opened up the door.
I said, let's go, let's go, let's go.
My heart was about to literally jump out of my throat.
We drove off and the guy didn't follow us.
And I had Procesh translate for me.
And I said, do you, is that your family that's in there?
And she said, no.
And I said, what, what are you doing in there?
And she said, I came to clean.
They came to my village and they said I was going to clean.
She said, but I haven't cleaned anything.
And I said, how long have you been in there?
And she said, she didn't know.
And I said, it's been a day.
Has been a month.
She just kind of shocked her shoulders.
And I'm like, tell me how long you've been here.
And she said, she didn't know.
She didn't have any idea.
We're talking like a 10 year old child, you know?
And I said, well, you're going to remember this day for the rest of your life.
She's not saying anything.
Procesh is translating.
I said, do you know, do you know who Jesus is?
And she said, no.
And I said, well, he knows you.
And he sent me from the other side of the world to come over here and to get you.
He's been watching you for a long time.
And he sent me over here to get you.
And I just got you.
And I'm going to take you to a home where nobody is ever going to hurt you again, ever.
And I know that you're sick and there's going to be a doctor there.
And we're going to eat.
Nobody's going to hurt you.
And she didn't like, oh, yeah, I mean, she didn't know what to think about any of it.
She didn't have a clue.
I mean, she just like, whatever.
Procesh took me to a home that we have.
It's a transition home when kids get out of high school and when they get in the college,
we have a home in Vyshika, Kappatnam or outside of Vyshika, Kappatnam, India that has these
college age girls in it.
And I want to tell you, Jonathan, those girls love me.
I've known them since they were a little bit.
And when we pulled up there, I went in there and they were so excited.
I was there and I told them, hey, you're not going to believe what I just did, which was
crazy.
And I said, and that little girl's in a car.
And she is terrified.
She's been traumatized and we got to help her.
And I said, I want her to have her own bed and they're like, okay, and I was like, I want
you to treat her like a queen.
I went outside to the car when got her, brought her into the house and all those girls.
These beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, 20, 21-year-old girls, 18, 19, 20, 21-year-old girls
in these beautiful sari's and they all started clapping for her.
They were all clapping for her.
And that was the first time that I saw any life in that little girl.
And they were all hugging her and they were all talking to her and saying, no, no, no, you
listen, we know Papa Troy and you're going to live here with us and it's going to be okay.
You're going to be okay.
You're not going back.
And she was asking, I'm not going back there and they're like, no, you're not going
back.
You're going to stay here with us.
And so I left.
And we had a doctor come, all those kinds of things.
I came back about five days later, seven days later, something like that because we, I traveled
the whole country on the way back as I was flying out.
We stopped at there and I went, I got a check on that little girl and she came out and she
hugged me and would not let go of me.
And she asked me in Telugu and all the other girls started laughing and I said, what did she
say?
And she said she wants to know if you're Jesus.
That's probably my favorite.
She saw Jesus in you.
Yeah.
She's cool girl too.
She's married and grown up now and she's cool.
She's, I haven't seen her in probably 10 years.
But that, you know, man, I got on a plane and I was just sitting on the plane, man, the whole
way just going, what have you done, God, to put me in this position?
Number one, I was happy I didn't get killed because I was way out of my league.
I'm not like, Mr., I get all this credit for rescuing all these kids.
I don't actually rescue the kids.
I rescue the rescuers that rescue the kids.
That's what I do.
But in this case, I actually rescued this kid and I'm, they're, I've rescued some kids, but
not, not like what everybody else does, but I'm, I didn't go in there and rescue them
by kicking down the door, beating somebody up or, you know, walking right in there with
a gun.
We just did some business.
You could just do some business.
And I mean, you can buy a human being for $3,000 every single day of the week.
I'm talking about, I'm talking about you can go into a room where they bring in
girls and you sit in there and you got as much cash as you can carry on.
Did this in Northern India, right on the, right on the NAPA lease border?
And everybody in there has got a phone.
Everybody in there has got, got FaceTime and they got an Arab on the other, on the other
end.
And they're bidding on these girls and they, they give you a piece of paper and it's
like a car market.
It says, this one is 14 and she has hazel eyes and black hair and this is her way and
this is her height.
And this one is 17 and this is, I mean, it's literally like a car market and you just bid
on them and you're just hoping you don't run out of money and you do and you do run out
of money.
And then you leave there knowing there was a bunch of more people I could have rescued if
I had the money or this that, you know, yeah, we did that.
We did that for, we did that for years and then a word got out, you know, what we were
doing.
And then because those girls that we would rescue, they wouldn't know where other kids were
and then we started working with governments and then we started working.
We had literally started hiring security teams and then I started building my own security
teams and building my own security companies and like and Uganda, I have a security company
and we had to put all that stuff together.
So, so going back to that one story, I, I, when I came back after rescue in that little
girl, I was like, this is all I want to do for the rest of my life.
Is it?
I had no more ambitions.
I had no more aspirations and whatever I was going to do, I wanted to do it to create
awareness and to fund rescue and kids.
I know there's another side to this.
What happens to the traffickers?
What does justice look like?
And how has Jesus been involved?
Well, depending upon which country that they're in, people deal with trafficking differently.
So like in Nepal, for example, you have to pay a prosecuting attorney to actually prosecute,
you have to, you have to pay for it.
And so like the victims have to pay a prosecuting attorney.
They of course they have a constitution, of course they have a rule of law, but the prosecution,
the prosecuting attorneys are paid for by the victim.
And that's one of the reason why people come from all over the world to snatch kids out
in Nepal is because the poor people that they are molesting will never be able to hire
a lawyer.
They'll never be able to defend themselves.
So a ministry like mine can come in and say, I got a lot of cash and I say we throw these
jokers under the bus.
And then you do.
And they everybody starts freaking out.
Like why would you come over here and pay for the justice of somebody you don't even know?
Well, because you don't know Jesus and we do.
And this is what he does.
And so like all of our, not all of our funding, but a lot of our funding that goes to Nepal
actually is to pay for the prosecution.
Closer to home like in Mexico and in places like Belize and Nicaragua and Colombia and
Peru and Brazil.
You have to develop and you have to develop relationships with prosecuting attorneys.
And then hopefully you can get to the attorney general.
You can get as high as the attorney general.
Last week I had a conference when we had the attorney general of the state of Durango, Mexico
was actually here.
She actually came up here and she's a godly woman.
She's incredible.
And she is the attorney general.
Okay.
Well, let me tell you she has an agenda to stop cartels and to stop trafficking.
And so it's super important that we as Christians support those people in government positions
that are willing to actually risk their necks in fighting trafficking.
So now that I've said all of that, tell you that I am for it 10,000%.
I am for the prosecution and also too, if I can just say this, honestly, don't think that
rehabilitation should be an option to someone who must have child.
I just believe that you go, "Bibble, I'm all about cement shoes."
Now that I said that, that's not the option.
What is the option is to make sure that they are separated from society and they never
get a chance to hurt anymore children ever again.
And we have to support those people that support those laws that are in government places.
How can dads keep their own children safe and/or the kids that they may serve in other
settings such as church and other organizations?
How you protect your kids is number one, you are highly involved within your kids' life.
And you can smell out a red flag just if you're really involved.
If you're not really involved, I want to tell you, these guys are going to be smarter in
you and they're going to get them and you can't let them get them.
You've got to be involved.
You need to have some simple policies just because your kid wants to be on the internet
all the time.
Doesn't mean that you have to let them.
Just because your kid wants to have their own this and their own that or whatever it comes
to their accessibility to the web doesn't mean that they just get to have those gates open
in their life because their friends have that.
I know exactly what fuels child trafficking.
I know exactly what funds child trafficking and I know exactly what builds the market for
child trafficking and it is pornography.
That's what it is.
And there could be no place within our own sexuality as dads privately that we give
place to pornography and it's going to be hard because we have the need for instant self-gradification.
And you're going to have to fight that and you got to teach your kids to fight that and
you got to tell them, you know what?
Dude, you're going to be an alpha male.
You're going to be married one of these days.
You're going to have your sexuality is awesome.
I don't hate your sexuality is awesome.
But this right here, this pornography thing, that's a no.
We're not doing that.
And then to actually because I know what pornography is because I rescue kids out of pornography.
I know what it is.
I also know this too.
Every bit of trafficking is funded by pornography because of monetization.
So we think, you know, hey, look, I'm not buying anything.
I'm not participating.
I'm just a dude and I'm looking at these images and yeah, that's awesome.
I'm sorry, but I really like that.
I'm a guy and I like that.
For every second that you spend watching pornography, you are literally funding a crime scene.
That's what you're doing.
And the word of God says, not only do those who do such terrible things receive judgment,
but those who take pleasure in it.
That's what the Bible says.
It's like, you can't say I'm against trafficking, but I think it's very entertaining and gratifying
to watch a slave be treated like that.
You're like, well, they're not slaves.
Yes, they are.
Yes, I know what I'm talking about.
There's not a single little girl on the planet earth that says, when I grow up, I want to be
a porn star.
They're slaves and they're drug addicted and they're this and they're that and there's
all those those kinds of things.
The other part of that too, Jonathan is that, you know, since our borders have been
open, they're closed now.
But for the past four years, our borders have been just completely open.
They have the open borders is not just that people can get into the country.
Open borders is there's no accountability of what goes back and forth, what goes back and
forth.
And that's something that people just don't realize.
I realize it because I do work on the border and I know what it is.
So a big part of open borders is this, if you stay addicted to pornography long enough,
you will be led to lusting after children.
It leads you down that road to actually viewing children and actually being a part of that.
That is the road that pornography takes every single human being on.
You stay in there long enough.
Then you know what you do, you also learn how to surf the web and you learn how to get
into the dark web through pornography.
That's how you learn.
And then after a while, you learn how to find the dark web on your apps and then you have
something like Instagram and then you get to viewing a child, you get to like in a child
and then somebody contacts you and says, come down here in MacGalen, Texas and be on
the border and be within a mile and contact us.
Go down there to the border and you sit there, you get on Instagram and they say, you like
this little girl, you like this little boy, you like this and you say, yes, I do.
And then they come across the border, they pick you up, they take you across the border,
you lay your money down and you spend the day molesting a child.
And then you come back.
All of that is pornography driven.
Every single bit of it is porn oh driven.
And pornography takes advantage of everybody's vulnerability, everybody's.
So if a guy goes down to the border, Jonathan and if a guy actually does that and he gets
proficient enough at surfing the dark web who he was introduced through through pornography
and now he's actually lusting after a child and he's intrigued with the sexuality of a child
and then he actually makes the journey.
I promise you, that's not the last time he's going to go down there and he's going to
do that.
What's going to happen is studies have shown that person is going to return 70 more times
70.
That's the average.
So it's got to be stopped.
Somebody has to stand up, somebody has to intervene.
And in tool, we actually recognize that pornography is after our kids until we actually say, let
me tell you what it's actually all about.
It is not about adult entertainment of considering adults and like, you know what, that's just
kind of a cool.
That's not what it is.
If that's all it was, it would shut down the entire porn, the entire porn industry.
It's a lot like abortion clinics.
They're like, well, actually we're all about family, health and all that and then we do abortions
on the side.
Okay, you take abortion out of abortion clinics.
They all shut down.
You take child sexuality out of pornography.
I'm telling you, you shut down pornography.
How can dads learn more about Troy Brewer Ministries?
Get your books or get involved?
Well, you can just go to Troy Brewer, just Troy Brewer dot com and that's probably the easiest
way and I want to just encourage you guys to do that.
Go there and check us out and we got rescue stories and videos.
It will direct you to other sites that I have and just just get plugged in.
It's pretty easy.
Just go to Troy Brewer Troy Brewer dot com.
Troy as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
My challenge to dads is just, is just this.
I would just say this.
You know what, our God, it's God's idea for us to be a father.
It's his idea for him to be our father and there is no way that you're going to reach your
kids for Jesus if you're not going to be a father to him.
Your kids are going to be like, yeah, that's a cool scripture, but you're a terrible dad.
What's real is any single one of us on any given day of the week, we can decide today's
today.
I'm going to be a good dad.
Today is the day that I'm going to be selfless concerning my kid.
Today is the day I'm going to be a leader when it comes to my child.
And today is the day that I'm going to recognize everything in the kingdom is relational before
it's functional.
And I'm going to make sure that my relationship with my kid is right.
Troy, this has been a powerful conversation.
You're a very busy guy doing incredible things, doing God's works.
I appreciate you taking the time to be on the father and challenge.
Listen, I'm proud of you, buddy.
Appreciate your mission and I'll stand with you.
God bless you so much.
[MUSIC]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Dads if you want your church or Christian community to be a safe place for your kids, this is not an episode to miss. There are things every dad can and should do to protect their kids as well as others and you will learn what those things are in this episode.
My guest is the founder and director of Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health and Trauma. He also has a book out called Safe Church which we will talk about in this episode. This is Dr. Andrew Bauman's second appearance on The Fatherhood Challenge.
You can order his book Safe Church here: https://amzn.to/4hbn22a
To learn more about Christian Counseling Center visit: https://christiancc.org/
Special thanks to Smile Online Course & Books for sponsoring this episode. To learn more visit: https://thefatherhoodchallenge--smileteenskills.thrivecart.com/social-career-skills-accelerator/
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If you've been the victim of trauma or cruelty of any kind and you're struggling to heal, this episode reveals the pathway to healing. Mark Sowersby is a sexual and physical abuse survivor and he's a pastor and author of Forgiving the Nightmare and co-author of Letters to the Weary.
You can find Forgiving the Nightmare here: https://amzn.to/3E2Bf2X
You can find Letters to the Weary here: https://amzn.to/3WjCxgj
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Transcript - The Healing Power of Forgiveness
Today we are tackling a very difficult topic. We're going to be talking about forgiveness.
Forgiveness is something that can be an uncomfortable subject for most of us. It not only can
affect our health, but it can also affect our spiritual walk, and sometimes it can
interfere with our ability to be able to hear God clearly. So it's really important for us to be
able to understand what forgiveness means and the freedom that it can bring. And I've brought a
guest on our program to talk about this, and he will be with us in just a moment, so don't go
anywhere. Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire
fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand
how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me.
I brought a guest on. His name is Mark Sowersby. Mark is a pastor and also the author of a book
on forgiveness, and we're going to be talking about that book later on in the program.
Mark, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. Oh, thank you so much for having me.
It's an honor to be with you. Well, let's not waste a minute. Let's jump right into your story.
How does your story begin? Well, our story, our topic today is about forgiveness.
And in my story, there was an offense and abuse and a sorrow. And that's what I'm going to share
with you right now. I'm going to share with you what it's like for me when I grew up in a,
in a home full of abuse. You know, it's a subject that many men don't want to talk about. We,
we kind of run from it. We kind of hope it goes away. We, we get busy with other stuff, but, you know,
when I was seven years old, my mother would marry a man 20 years, her younger, and he would come into
our home and he would groom me. He would abuse me. He would molest my body. He would stab me and burn
me, summon the other men for their own sexual pleasures. And this was the atmosphere that I lived in
from the time I was seven to 14 years old. So that was my trauma. That was my nightmare and the pain
that went with that, the sorrow that went with that, the ugliness that went with that that trapped me
for many, many years. I'll just share this as much as I can remember that first night when he came
installed my innocence for me. I can remember the crackle of the threshold and the weight of his body,
the smell of his breath. And as much as that hurt his evil and ugly as that was, he left me with even a
deeper wound when he finished his abuse. He, he told me it was my fault. He told me this is what I,
I deserved it that no one would ever believe me. And even though the physical scars is ugly and as
deep as they were, that emotional scar lasted far longer than the physical one. So I had to go through
this journey that I learned to forgive. So I wasn't going crazy insane. I was angry. I wasn't just,
just lost all the time. And that's what I share about in our, in this story about forgiveness.
How did that shape your view of God? Well, it was a child in those early years. We didn't really
grow up with any kind of religion. My, my family was kind of like, well, be good and God's good and do
your best and God. So there really wasn't a religion standard. It was just we knew Jesus, we knew
Christmas and Easter. But we didn't really have a religion. So I didn't really think much about it.
You know, and those years when I was being abused, I tell everybody those seven years was,
I was just trying to survive. I wasn't trying to figure life out. I wasn't trying to thrive.
I, you know, I just had to survive to the next moment. I would say the next day, but if anybody's lived
with somebody that was, was an abuser, there was somebody that caused pain, you know, as somebody
is affected by that, you're just trying to figure out your next move. It's like playing chess. It's like
walking on eggshells. You never know what's going to tear them off or what's going to happen next.
So those seven years that ugly seven years that I experienced, it really was just survival.
I was just, I tell people, I didn't learn how to read. I learned how to duck. You know, it's just,
how do I get to the next day, get through the next moment? One of the things I know is common with
people who've gone through that is they need something to really numb, something to really forget
what, what it happens for some, it's alcohol for some, it's drugs. Was there ever a path like that for
you? Oh, sure, sure. You know, I would say that in those seven years, that's exactly how I felt.
I felt numb. That's exactly how I had to live in my mind if you would. Again, I didn't know these
terms or understand them when I was a child. I was just going through, but I became numb. The pain
was so bad. It was so horrific, so ugly, the lies and the attacks, I just became numb. And yeah,
as an adult, when it was all over at 14 years old, and I'll just share the rest that 14 years old
two things happened. I fought my attacker off. It wasn't a Mike Tyson moment. It wasn't a rocky
Val Boa, but you know, it wasn't MMA, but I pushed off my attacker and I ran. But also, I found a
leveled in my family who believed me. And they believed my story. They believed what was happening.
So they were able to protect me with their might and their power. So at 14, the abuse never took place.
It was over physically, but now I live with the scars and the pain of that, for the rest of
them for about 30 years. And as you said, when did I gravitate to it? I didn't gravitate to alcohol.
I didn't gravitate to drugs, but I gravitated to donuts. You know, and I found my comfort in food.
I found my comfort, my security, my blanket, my friend in hiding behind the refrigerator,
if you would. So that was my coping mechanism that I ate too much and talked too much. And that's
the journey that I think we're all on. You know, the the weight issue, the donut, the cake, the pizza,
was always lying to me. I was always waiting for the perfect one. You know, the next one will be
the perfect one. The next one will make me feel good. The next one, it's like any drug if you would.
It was always saying to me, look how good I taste. And don't worry about the cholesterol,
the blood pressure and everything else. So, you know, just like any, any habit, anything that's
destructive, a lie to us, to tell us it's good, but then leave with, leave with pain and sorrow.
But what happened to me? How did I find my way out? Well, after the abuse ended, I never wanted to
be at home. You know, the hell full of chaos. So I was the kid that was always out of somebody's,
always had somebody's house. I stayed too late. I ate over somebody's place. But we had to pool
in the apartment complex. We lived that. And I was about 15 and I said a prayer that I would come to
know as the sinner's prayer. Lord, forgive me my sins come live in my heart. I was only a kid.
And I probably didn't know the depth of that prayer, but God knew the depth of that prayer. He was
faithful to it. So what happened for me is the church. And again, I'll tell you the church is not full
of perfect people, filled with forgiven people. But the church for me truly became a sanctuary.
And I don't just mean that word in a holy sense. I mean that word in a protection sense.
So that kid who never wanted to be home, I was always at the church. I was every meeting. I think
what the adult prayer meetings, I went to, you know, the senior prayer meetings, I went to ladies
prayer, I went to mom's prayer. I just always was at the church and there's where I started to work
on this journey of hope to find my way out of this pain. Where was God during the abuse?
That's a great question. And I think anybody that's gone through trauma has asked themselves that
question. Everyone who's gone through a pain or abuse has to be intellectually honest with yourself,
God, where are you? We know you could control all things. We know they are in charge of all things.
Then why did these things happen? Why? And that's a hard journey to go through. That's really like a valley.
And like David said, I walk through the valley, but I'll fear no evil. And in that place, I will say God
gave me a perfect answer for me. And I want to underline that word for me. I wish I could give a perfect
answer for everyone. But that's not how it works. God gave me an answer to that hard question that
satisfied me. Now my answer is not going to satisfy anybody else. But you know, the Bible says
that we'll know his voice, the sheep know the shepherd, the shepherd's voice. And we'll know
his voice. So when God spoke to me in my heart, it was an audible. But when he spoke to me in my spirit,
my prayer closet, and I cried out, God, why? Where? What? When? And with a with a fist that was shaken,
God gave me the answer that was enough for me. And if I gave my answer, a lot of people would say,
well, that's not a good answer. But what if the answer I got was good enough for me? When I was a
kid and I first walked into a church and my faith was new and young, I didn't seek forgiveness. I
didn't even have to stay with that man. I sought the Lord. And then the Lord would eventually,
years and decades later, help me forgive those who trespass against me. But there's three things that
I learned that were very important to me during that time. And the first thing I learned is that
forgiveness is not approval. You know, I think there's a part of me thinking, if I forgive, I'm saying
it's okay. I'm saying it's right. No, what happened to me and happened to others is evil or wrong against
the law of bad. And you know, I don't approve of it. I don't accept it. I don't like it. But because I
forgave the personal abuse me does not mean I approve of what he did. So forgiveness is not approval.
The second thing I learned is that forgiveness is not a one-time event. You know, it's constant. We live in
a place of forgiving, being forgiven and forgiving others. You know, his mercy is made new every day.
The Bible tells us. And then I would say the third thing I learned was I could have my boundaries.
You know, I didn't have to have Christmas morning. I didn't have to stick my head back into the
lion's mouth. I could say, God, I forgave. And now I can have, I'm going to love this person because I
love them so much to put them in your hands. And that's what it meant to me. God loved the enemy. I'm
going to love as much. Lord, I can't spend time. There's still, there's still hurts and pains and
triggers. But I'm going to let this go. So no longer is the worst part of my life. Have to be the
sum of my life. So when that answer came, it came in waves. It came in pieces. It came in facets.
You know, it wasn't all at once. But as I grew closer to God, the answer became clearer and clearer.
And it was hard. It wasn't always, you know, this could be my moment. It was me wrestling myself
with my past, who I am, what I wanted to be, why it if and how. But eventually when I learned that I
could forgive because Christ first forgave me. And as God gave, brought me closer to Him, my perspective
changed. See, the abuse gave me a perspective, her shame and pain. But as I grew closer to God,
there was word in His Spirit, my perspective changed to love, mercy and grace. You know, I was being
jackal trapped bound to my abuser even years after it was over, even years after I saw His face, even years
after I heard His voice, I was still being trapped every day because of the angst and the pain and the
anger. And I wanted my pound of flesh and I wanted my revenge and I wanted, I wanted what I wanted.
But I learned what I could give that to Christ when I gave that to the God, when I said, Lord, you
are in control. That when I released that to God, I really got set free. I got set free because,
you know, I was carrying this, this yoke, I was carrying this pain, I was carrying this weight around
me all the time. And you know, when, and we think sometimes we can bury our traumas. We think sometimes,
well, if we don't talk about it, we can, we can kind of put in that nice little box with a bow
around it and just kind of forget about it. But pain always comes out. Pain always breaks something.
And ask the people you love, you might think you have it in this nice little place and you're not
going to think about it, but you know what, a lot of times our hurts are like the rudder to our life
and they gravitate us to things and they, they retreat us from other things. So, you know, those pains
that we think are put away and no one knows and, you know, they would be shocked if they ever find out,
let me tell you, it may not be coming out directly, but it's coming out somehow in self-medication
and easily fits of anger and just fears and anxieties. So, where did I find my freedom? I found it by
giving it to the judge, by giving it to the king, by giving it to the Lord, by giving it to my Savior.
Now, when I did that, I just said, you are in control. I'm releasing this. I'm letting it go.
What you will do with my abuser, you will do and you will be just, you will be right, you will not
be mocked, you are holy, but I have not in the place and I'm carrying this pain around too long
and I don't want to pass it on to my children. I don't want to live it, have it in my marriage
and I don't want to live it every day. And in that moment, I got said free. Like I said, I didn't
know what the worst part of my life to be the sum of my life. What are the generational consequences
or curses that can potentially rise up from generation to generation by not us individually
dealing with our unforgiveness? Well, I think that sometimes we pass that down, not intentionally.
Of course, we never want to, but our children see the way we respond to trauma. The children see the
way we talk. The children see the way that we handle things and they repeat it because that's
what we do. We raise them up. We train them in the ways. We chain them in good things and we train
them in hard things. And when we don't deal with our trauma, there may be an unspoken thing that
we're saying, "Hey, you don't have to deal with your traumas." You know, there's an old story about
two brothers and both of them had the same dad and the dad was an alcoholic and one became an
alcoholic and one did it and they asked each brother why and their answer was the same. The one who
became the alcoholic said, "My dad, the one who didn't said my dad." And what's that story telling
us that we pass on behaviors unintentionally, mostly. I know I'm passing down bad habits to my
kids. They watch too much TV. They eat too much snacks. Just ask my wife, but the big things of anger,
the big things of control, the big things to say, "Hey, it's all right to confront, not not in an
angry way, but let's not live dysfunctional. Let's live in function. Let's not have a, you know, this
kind of look out that, "Hey, I'm just going to be quiet and hold it all in, but I'm going to let it
out and let God lead me in that. You get in a place where you stop trusting anybody. I was in that place,
you know, I was in that place where I didn't trust anybody or anything, including God. And really,
that's one of the first things God had to teach me before he could teach me to forgive. God had
to show me how to trust Him. And that happened slowly and lovingly and compassionately and mercifully.
And as I learned to trust God in His ways, He came great my ways. And it gave me that
a perspective of the kingdom, you know, looking at the person and looking at the people and looking at
the hurts through the cross of Calvary, not just through Mark's revenge. But when I look at
Proverbs 3, and I think we're all familiar with that very famous scripture in Proverbs, "Trust in
the Lord with all your heart and lead not on your own or your standings." But in all your ways submit
to Him and He will make your past straight, where the first two things are very hard, right? Trust
in the Lord with all with all your heart and lead not on your own or your standing.
You know, my understanding was to take care of me. My understanding was to to get what I wanted. My
trust was in what I could do. But the Lord tells me to trust in Him. And I only and then Him,
that only comes through relationship. That only comes with knowing His Word and knowing, not knowing
a religion, but knowing Him in that relationship I learned to trust in Him. And then to submit,
right? Wait a second. That's the last thing I want to do. The last thing because last time I submitted,
I got wounded. Last time I got submitted, I got hurt. But the Lord tells me to submit all my ways
unto Him. And then the promise He gives me there in Proverbs is what? He will make the past straight.
When I received the detailed answer, it still was not a comfortable answer to hear. It was true.
It was right. I knew the answer was correct. And I could not argue with the answer. But it still
made me a little sick to my stomach. And I had to pray about it. And I had to get take some time to
actually process it. The answer I got and it was more like if you can think of it in a conversational
form, imagine me asking God, where were you when the abuse was going on? You could have stopped it.
You could have interfered. You are all powerful. So what was your excuse? What was your reason for not
stopping it? You could have destroyed the person or people actually several people involved.
You could have destroyed them all. So why didn't you do it? And the answer I got back was because
if I destroyed them, I would also have to destroy you. And that was that answer made me sick to my
stomach. And the reason why is because I knew what that meant. At that point, I saw so many of my
sins flashing before my eyes. And yes, a lot of those sins were a result of the abuse.
And when it comes down to it, the finger ultimately, when everything when this all shakes out,
when everything comes down the pipe and the end comes, the ultimate blame does fall on Satan.
Satan is the scapegoat. He is ultimately the source and he will wait. He will bear it all ultimately.
But again, justice is justice. We still have our responsibility. There are sins I participated in.
And it doesn't make any difference if what perpetuated me to commit those sins was anger from the
abuse doesn't make any difference. Sin is sin. I still committed the sin. It points back to me.
There is no getting out of that. It is what it is. And the penalty that I should have received
before it is being destroyed. The same is my abusers. The scales are equal. So if we want justice,
that's what true justice looks like. And that's the part that will make you sick to your stomach.
Now, the other part of the story is the plan of redemption. We have Jesus. We have His blood
that covers us. And ultimately, the point where I realized I had forgiven them is when I saw a
setting where there was a scene where I'm at the gates of heaven and there's God. There's the Father.
There's Jesus. There were my abusers. And the question was asked of me, what should I do with them?
Should I send them to hell? Or should I let them into heaven? And the question was given to me.
The GABA was handed back to me and I could choose. I realized I had forgiven them when I finally said
I know what I'm going to do. And I pointed to them and I said, if they are comfortable spending
eternity with Him and I pointed to Jesus, then I am comfortable spending eternity with them.
And that was my answer. That's when I realized I had forgiven and the GABA was right back into God's
hands. I just want people in the audience to be discouraged if you don't get the answer right away.
It isn't because God doesn't want to answer your question or because He won't. He will answer your
question. Believe me, if you ask, He will give you an answer. Are you ready to receive the answer?
The true answer. And that is a big determination. And when you get the answer, how you get it,
whether you get the answer in one piece or not, or the means by which God chooses to answer you.
That's also a factor. It's into your readiness. God is very careful. He's very gentle with us. He's
merciful with us. And He knows when and how we're ready. So trust God on that. Amen. Amen.
Good word, man. That's a very good, strong encouragement. My miracle, like your miracle, it sounds like
didn't come in a twinkly of an eye. It came through a journey. It came through walking and trusting
and going forward and trusting and believing and crying out. And there's good days and there's
hard days. And days where you had to deal with ugly stuff, days where you just got to say, God,
I don't want to deal with it at all. But in that process, you know, you and I've got our miracle.
You know, I wish somebody, hey, I went to church. I said a prayer and that's it. If that's their
story, amen, I'm going to rejoice with them. But I think more, more times than not, when people go
through trauma, it's the, it's the process. It's the journey. It's walking through the valley,
if hearing, no evil because that was with me. It's the process to know that as we grow as we go
through that refining fire, as we go through those seasons of testing, as we go through those times
of being a strengthened and you're right. I loved how you said that the answer came at the right time.
You know, when I was 14 years old and the abuse ended, I would never been able to hear or understand
the answer that I got. You know, God had it, but I would have been too angry. I would have been too.
No way. I would have dismissed it, but somewhere on that journey as God became greater and the pain
became less as God's mercy became stronger and the fear became less as the lies became quiet
and God's words became greater. And that journey is when God spoke to me. And like you, I said, God,
where were you? And he said, Mark, I've known you from your mother's womb. I was born from the fair. My
my birth father was married to another. It didn't really get to meet my birth father. So I was
45 years old, a lot of confusion, a lot of hurt. He said, Mark, I've known you from your mother's
womb and yet the enemy has tried to sift you since the moment you were born. And that was my answer
that I know from the moment I was born. I kept saying, why? Where? But now what the enemy has meant for
evil, I'm using for good. So even though I had to carry this cross, even though I had to walk through
this ugly stuff, and I'm not saying God did it, but God's using it. God's using this testimony,
using the story of me, forgiving my nightmare of me walking through my trauma of me. So I'm able to
share around the country. I'm able in my book and in our ministry to be able to share people
that have walked through traumas not too long ago. I was in Ohio and I was preaching,
like we're talking today about overcoming in the blood of the lamb. This woman came up to the
altar and she had to be in her early 80s. And all she said, me too, pastor. So it was the first time
in her life that she spoke these words, me too, meaning that I too went through abuse. Her husband
didn't know. They were married over 50 plus years. Her children were grown. They didn't know she had
grandchildren, the great-greater and so for almost 80 years, she carried that inside her. And when I
came to speak, not because of me, because of the word of God, because of the spirit of Lord,
she was able to begin to confess or begin to speak or begin to share. And in that moment, I watched
her children rally around her love and prayer and so many people love God. They had Christians.
They give, they go, they pray, they read, but yet they bury the shame down. And they say, Lord,
I just take it away. And yes, that's what we all want. But sometimes we've got to be willing to walk
walk through that journey. And I think like you said, you had to come to that place to say,
if they could spend their time with Christ, then I could spend eternity with them. And that's
what it's about. God is the judge. He is the one that's right. He is mighty and he is compassionate.
He is merciful and he is strength. And that's what we trust in. And that's what, that's what pulled me
out of my myri clay. So I am no longer trapped in this anger, this fear, this confusion, does it rise
up? Sure. Do I have my triggers? Of course, there's certain smells and sounds and places bring me back.
Yes. But those are the days when I remember, Lord, I forgave in you. I stand in your promise.
You know, I remember when my son was born, the first time became a father. And as my son came into
the world the usual way and they put in my arms, 10 fingers, 10 toes, my wife and I were happy. My
wife was healing from giving birth. At that moment as I held this little boy in my hand that the enemy
was lying to me, no one ever loved you that much. No one ever took care of you this much. No one
ever wanted to sacrifice for you as much. But in that moment, I didn't want my abuse to still
enjoy of my father. Boy, I, you know, the nerves, the, the, the, the, the, the old nerves, the what ifs, the
how it comes? Boy, I'm, but I had the joy of being a father for the first time. But yet that moment,
the enemy tried to bring up my past, bring up my fear to steal that moment. And that's what I had to say,
I forgave in Jesus name. I didn't feel it. It wasn't warm and fuzzy. It wasn't like, you know,
hallelujah music was playing in my ears. There was an angel singing, but yet I knew that I forgave
because I forgave in Jesus and I could stand upon the rock of Jesus Christ and enjoy that moment.
And that's what, that's what forgiveness. That's what life more abundant looks like. And I'm glad
that you had your moment where God gave you the hard answer, the ugly answer, but it was at the
right time. God gave me an answer. It was hard, but it was at the right time. And I know that it's
God does want to answer. God was wants to speak to us. His word is there for us. His spirit leads us
and those that have gone through trouble and say, why? Why? God wants to meet you with that why because
he is the I am. I am your God. I am your Savior. I am, I am the one who died for you. I'm your healer
and your Redeemer. So God wants to meet us in those places. So Mark, you've written a book about
forgiveness. Tell us a little bit about that book. Sure. Yeah. We wrote the story again. We just kind
of scratched on it a little bit today, but we wrote the story called forgiving the nightmare.
And I wrote not just my story, but I also wrote some principles and some practices. I didn't just
want to write a story. Hey, I'm an abused guy, but I wanted to give some tools. I wanted to give some
from some support. I wanted to give some principles on how I overcame those things. And it was by
dying itself and getting ahold of Christ. So my book's called forgiving the nightmare, forgiving the
nightmare. And yeah, we have a ministry call for giving the nightmare. And the book was last
a couple of years ago. We got actually got a new book coming out. It's a it's a devotional.
So I get to wear the pastor hat a little bit more. And it's called letters to the weary. So my book
for giving the nightmare, which is out right now, go to Amazon, go to forgive the nightmare.com,
our devotional, which is called letters to the weary. And this again, kind of sin, genre of encouragement,
support, and principles to help people through those traumas of life. I'm also going to post links to
make it easier for you to find marks books. So if you go to the fatherhood challenge.com, that's the
fatherhood challenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description, I will
have the links posted there for your convenience. Mark, as we close, what is your challenge to that
dad listening that is struggling with his own history of abuse? My challenge would be to let him know
he's not alone. You know, the enemy loves to separate and isolate. And our traumas love to do
the same thing. So sometimes we really think we're the only kid that ever grew up like that. We think
we're the only person that ever had to deal with that. We think the only person or individual that
had to deal with that kind of junk, that kind of family, that kind of father. But I'll tell you the day
that's a lie from the end of this countless people. They're not perfect people, but the people who
love God, the people who can support you in your journey. There's a community out there that says,
"Hey, you're not the only one." Mark, thank you so much for sharing your story with us for giving us
hope and resources to be able to help you. Now it's out there who got through this, actually heal.
Thank you. Thank you as my honor and God bless you guys.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
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How much screen time is too much screen time for your kids or teens? How do you teach your kids basic social skills for things like making connections, finding a job or managing relationships? We will address all of these questions in this episode. with Kirt Manecke as my guest. Kirt is an award winning author and founder of Smile Online Course and Books, helping parents teach their kids social skills & career readiness for teen success.
To learn more about Kirt and his curriculum visit:
https://www.smilethebook.com/
To purchase Kirt's latest book visit: https://amzn.to/3DT8Axm
Here is a link to the Thomas Kersting book mentioned by Kirt in this episode: https://amzn.to/3Pu6jLq
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Transcript - Raising Teens Who Are Confident at Life
How much screen time is too much screen time for your kids or teens?
How do you teach your kids basic social skills for things like making connections,
finding a job, or managing relationships?
We will address all of these questions in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are
to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
I'm excited to have Kurt Manecke with me.
Kurt is an award-winning author and founder of Smile Online Courses and Books, helping parents
teach their kids social skills, career readiness, 14 success.
Kurt, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
You're welcome, Jonathan, thank you so much for having me.
Okay, here is my favorite part.
What is your favorite dad joke?
I love this dad joke.
What did the Buffalo say to his son on the first day of school by son?
I've always loved that one.
Yeah, I love it too.
I think I've heard this one maybe once before, but it's been so long.
It's still funny.
It is.
I remember it from like 20 years ago, so when you asked me to come up with something, I had
to remember.
I knew it was about a Buffalo, and then I thought, "Oh, that's right."
I was a bison, so I thought there was kind of cute.
Thank you for sharing that.
Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you.
Kurt, what is the story behind why you founded Smile Online Courses and Books?
That's a great question, Jonathan.
Years ago, when I got out of college, I was partners in a startup, especially retail business,
and it was very technical.
That was when Windsurfing was popular in line skates with roller blades.
Everything was technical.
And a lot of teenagers wanted to work at our store because they thought it was the cool
place to be.
What was a business?
And I had created a six-week training program to give the employees confidence, and they
had to go through that before they were allowed to interact with customers.
And it worked very well.
We had a very successful store because of these great teenagers.
They were very friendly, very knowledgeable.
But we'll fast forward years later.
I noticed a lot of companies.
As you probably do, too, weren't training their employees.
They weren't greeting people properly, not answering the phone properly.
So, my first book was based on my training course.
It is called Smile, Selmore with Amazing Customer Service.
It's a 60-minute crash course in customer sales and service.
So then I wrote my next book that we're talking about today.
Smile and succeed for teens.
And it kind of came about because of all these moms and teachers saying that the kids don't
have the people skills.
I also noticed it when I'd go in businesses, I'd notice, and I didn't blame the teenagers.
But I would notice that the teen, and I could relate to this, wouldn't say anything to the
customers.
And I knew that he had not had the tape of training that I provided to give him camera
her confidence in my retail store.
So it came about from that.
The online course came because of COVID.
I'm a big proponent of kids having a physical book in their hand to read.
I shouldn't say kids, young adults.
So that's kind of how it all started.
And the teen book is done really well.
It's helping a lot of kids, and I'm thankful for that.
Why are teen years such a critical time to master social and career soft skills?
Well, when you think about it, their next step is to either go to college or go get a job.
And if they don't have these soft skills at that point, it's going to be difficult for
them in college.
They're not going to make a lot of friends.
And if they do get a part-time job, or if they go great from high school to college or
college to work, I mean, I'm sorry, high school to a job, they've got to have these
soft skills.
That's what these employers are looking for.
And when you look at surveys for employers, that's exactly what they say.
That's what I looked for.
When I had teens coming in my storage, I didn't have a job position available.
If they had good people skills, I would ask them if they could, I'd say, do you have a minute
for a quick interview?
If they made good eye contact, we're just friendly because I hired for attitude, trained
for skill, as they say.
And if they were friendly, I was always thinking, oh, I could trust this person with Jonathan
or my customers.
And that's how employers think.
So that's why it's so important.
I'm a big proponent of having them learn this as early as possible, even kindergarten
first grade, but it seems like high schools, when most educators and parents are using these
materials.
So it really sounds like in the interview process, a lot of times we think, oh, the interview
actually begins when we sit down in an office somewhere and then the questions begin, the
interview is started.
And for you, the interview starts at the very first meeting, at the very first instance of
eye contact, the interview has officially begun, whether they realize it or not.
Well said, that's spot on and it's funny you said that because I'm looking at, remember,
on the back cover of my book, I have make a powerful first impression.
And that's what it's all about.
Are teens better or worse now than previous generations at social and career skills?
And what are the differences from generation to generation?
You know, I would not want to be a teenager these days.
I think it's a lot tougher on them with social media and the bullying and the phones.
So I think, and this is nothing against the teens.
It's not their fault.
I think it's harder for them.
I think they're worse off now because of that.
I mean, think about it, somebody post a picture of you online and last forever.
So the differences now are, you know, kids are dealing with social media pressures, bullying,
peer pressure, the screens, the phones.
And because of that, they're losing, they're not getting the social skills practice.
So I think there were so before, like my generation, I'm a baby boomer, we didn't have any
that.
Because we, I didn't have to worry about phones, you know, employees with phones, which is
great.
That started with the next generation, which I don't know.
I should know this.
I think it's the millennials.
But so that's the difference.
I think they're worse off now.
And I just, I feel bad for them.
That's a lot of, a lot of pressure.
I agree.
It is.
And that leads me to wonder what is so addictive about phones that is causing teens to just
stay there and locked into a whole different world and they can't interact with the real
physical world.
That's another great question, Jonathan.
You know, I'm fortunate enough because of my book, I'm connected with a lot of psychiatrists
and counselors, school counselors, social workers across our country.
So they're really the experts with this and they have taught me that, you know, this addiction
you're talking about is the same thing as when people go to casinos and pull that lover.
You know, they get a burst of dopamine and the same thing when these young people are
and us too when we're on social media, you know, you look at something you like it, then
something else comes up similar to it because that algorithm knows what you like.
So they'll keep those young people on there as long as possible to get the ad revenue
in the eyeballs.
That's what makes it so addicting.
And that's the problem with just giving somebody a phone.
It's not that the phone is bad.
It's just they'll get on there and they'll be on there for hours.
And then parents allow it.
So our parents just clueless and they're not aware of what's going on and they're not
aware of the addiction or our parents mindful of it.
And there is there some reason why they allow their kids to be on phone so much or screens
in general.
I love that question.
I've often wondered that too.
And I just had a great meeting last week with a group of experts, child psychologists
and social workers, counselors and people that work with parents and they have a better answer
than even I do.
And they basically said it's fear of missing out, you know, they call it fomo.
And they said, you know, what happens with a lot of parents, they're afraid of not giving
their child a phone, but they don't understand the consequences.
They don't understand the brain development and what actually happens like you talked
about the addiction.
So they're not understanding that because they've never been exposed to it.
And one of the parent coaches brought up a good point.
She said, you know, a lot of the parents unfortunately, why don't avoid conflict.
They don't want to have the know from there.
They don't want to have to tell their son or daughter know they're almost like being their
friend.
So she has to tell them, well, you avoided conflict.
So now you have to deal with the consequences.
Now we have to fix what's happened to your young adult and why they're not doing well
with social skills.
So I think it's a whole combination of that.
Those are some of the things they've told me and they've just basically said, you know,
you've got to be their parent.
You're doing them a favor by saying no to these devices and social media, especially.
A lot of the experts I have spoken to and some of them are authors who have written great
books.
They've said, give it a week or two.
It'll be hard, but your son or daughter will actually be really relieved and happy
that they don't have it.
They don't have all those pressures.
And think about that time that we all spend on screens that can be used for, you know,
being out in nature and other activities that kids can do to enjoy themselves rather
than, you know, what do we really get?
What are the really the benefits of a teenager being on the screen on a screen?
I don't think anybody can give me like one.
There really isn't.
There are other elements that are important to consider when it comes to giving phones
to teens or preteens.
And that is trafficking.
This is where a lot of trafficking instances begin.
I've actually had guests on the program, parents who have experienced this with their team.
And thankfully have rescued their team from a trafficking situation in the nick of time.
So this is where this begins.
So kids are being exposed to pornography at earlier ages than what has been in the past.
Access to it has become easier.
And when kids get into, once they get exposed to it, once they see it, it's hard to turn
back from it.
It can ruin their perception of relationships of what a good relationship is.
And the social skills at this point, everything goes out the window.
So there's so much damage that just makes it not worth it.
I'm glad you brought that up.
There's a great book called Disconnected by Thomas Kersting.
He was a school psychologist.
Now he's in private practice.
But what he basically says is, you know, and I don't blame the parents.
This is a really tough time to parent.
He said, you know, he gets so many questions from parents.
What is the right age for me to give my kid a phone?
And he says, when you want them to be exposed to pornography.
And what you said about the predators on there and the trafficking, it is terrible.
And I forgot what they call it, but it's where, you know, they trap that individual into
thinking it's a young lady, his age of it's a, if it's a male teenager.
Oh, send me some naked pictures of you.
I'll send you something.
Me.
And then they say, okay, get us $10,000.
We're going to post these publicly.
So like you're saying this, this, this, it's not worth it.
You know, again, what benefit do they get from a screen?
And I know it's tough.
It's peer pressure, but I think it's an easier life for teens if they have limited access
to it or maybe no phone for a while.
So let's flip this around a little bit.
What can dads do to connect more with their teens without screens?
I think there are so many activities, you know, take the dog for a walk, go out in nature.
You know, kids love it.
Once kids get outside in the woods, they may kick, you know, kick and scream against it.
But once they get out in the woods, if there's a local park or, you know, a state park or
something, get them hiking, get them out in trails, go to sporting events, you know, when
you go out to a restaurant, don't have your phone out as an adult and don't allow your
kids to have them out.
Have a nice meal together and talk and find out what your young adult, maybe they have
a passion.
Maybe there's something they would like to volunteer as a family together and, and go do.
I mean, I've gone to Pet Smart on the weekends.
They're always looking for volunteers and it's fun.
There's nice people, there's animals, you know, kids love teenagers, love dogs and cats.
I would recommend that go with your, go with your, if you're dead, go with your sons, hey,
let's go help out.
Let's go help out this week or let's go go for a day and walk the dogs.
I mean, I'll tell you these young adults love being around those animals and it feels
good to be helping also.
So those would be a few things I would recommend.
Now let's go shift a little bit towards skills.
What are some things that dads can teach now?
So maybe some tips from your book, obviously read the whole book because you're not going
to get everything here.
But what are some simple tips, things that dads can do now to help their kids improve their
social skills and be prepared for job interviews and, and see results right away?
A few things.
I think it's really important that if you go to a restaurant with your family, provide
the example first.
The first time you go, you tell your son or daughter, you know, that, okay, I'm going to order,
but next time we come here, I'm going to have you order.
And then you do that.
You show them by example.
And then the next time say, okay, Ted, you know, go ahead and as your dad, I'd like to
see you order.
And they can talk to the waiter or waitress, make the order or if you're calling to order
a pizza, have them make the phone call.
A lot of young adults are not comfortable calling.
The other thing I highly recommend is either go to a farmer's market or be a mystery shopper
and go shopping at your son or daughter's favorite store and ask them, okay, let's see
how, why don't you tell me what the people are doing right and what they could improve
upon as far as social skills were you greeted when you walked in that business or walked
up to that farmer's market booth?
Was the person on their phone or were they paying full attention to you?
Did they say please and thank you?
And then have your son or daughter practice these skills when they go into an establishment.
Just practice, just practice, make, that's the first page in my book.
Smile and say hello, where if they're at work and you can do role playing with this or
have your, if you have two teens have them role play, just practice when somebody walks
in saying, hi, how are you today?
That's a big advantage over a lot of unfortunate so simple, but you walk in all these places
and nobody says hi to you, so get them, get them started doing that.
And I've got mock interview, you know, you can do mock role playing for job interviews.
I think that's really important where the dad can be the employee and the son or daughter
can be the employer and then switch it around.
Get them really comfortable with, you know, some of the common questions, tell me about
yourself, you know, why do you want to work here?
Things like that.
So those are some ways I would start and just make sure that even as a family, they're
saying, please, and thank you.
And when somebody says thank you, they're answering with your welcome, not, yeah, not no problem,
but you're welcome and good eye contact and a good smile and good body language standing
up straight.
Talk a little bit about feedback, accepting feedback.
That's really important.
It's funny you mentioned that, John, and because just yesterday I saw something in an article
that said, if you can't, if that, if you can't accept feedback graciously, you will never
be successful.
And I think we all have problems with the challenges with it, but I think of a young adult can accept
feedback.
And if it's given in a positive way, and a young adult can realize that it's not criticism,
we all need it.
And it's to help them get better at something and feel more comfortable.
So I would, when I had my retail store, for instance, I would tell my teens, I'm not criticizing
you.
You can tell me things that I can improve them on.
This is to make you feel more comfortable, but give it a try.
And then they'd come up and say, oh, you're right.
That made me feel so much more confident with the customer that I asked them.
I listened and I asked them, what will you be using these roller blade skates for?
So it's helpful.
It's not something that's criticizing.
How do you prepare a team for a hostile conflict?
What we used to teach in my store is, first of all, say, I'm sorry.
That's huge.
I'm sorry.
I had a problem the other day with a business, and the woman never said, I'm sorry or anything.
And I didn't really mind, but it would have been nice if they said that.
So the first thing I taught my staff, which were mainly teenagers, just listen.
You know, respect that person, say, I'm so sorry.
This happened.
Why don't you tell me what happened?
And then tell them, again, I'm so sorry to happen.
Make good eye contact.
And depending on what the situation is, you could ask them, what, what, what, what do you feel
would be a fair way to deal with this?
And if you're not, you know, if you don't have the authority to do anything about it, you
can say, you know what, I'm so sorry this happened.
Let me go get my manager who can help you and deal with it that way and make sure you're
saying, please, and thank you.
A lot of times when you just listen and they vent and they get it out of their system,
and you say, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry this happened.
Let's make sure we can get this corrected.
They're usually fine.
I mean, people I've dealt with, if you don't do that, then it just, you know, I'm sorry.
It just explodes and it snowballs into a huge problem from a minor little fire.
So that's what I would role play a lot of times with my staff as situations.
But I'll tell you, John, we never had many problems because, because people would come in our
business and immediately we'd say, like, hi, John, I'm the new radio today.
It's nice to see you and all of a sudden they're happy.
So a lot of it is the attitude of the employee from the very start, making that great first
impression.
And that diffuses most people.
You know, a lot of people walk in and they're expecting a problem.
They're thinking, oh, nobody's going to say hi to me.
Nobody's going to help me or they're going to harm me.
This is not going to be a good experience.
And if you pleasantly surprise them, the problem they had all of a sudden isn't that big.
So let's talk about a phone customer service role.
Sure.
If the team is already used to being on their phone a lot, does that necessarily mean that
they will have the skills to be able to manage a customer service role that is just phone
only?
Not at all because most teams, as you know, don't talk on the phone.
You know, they're texting, you know, using it for social media, taking pictures.
But no, they're not.
Most teams have napkin taught what we used to do is a lot of role playing and dads can
do this with their son or daughter.
They can be the dad can be the employer and the team, you know, the team can be the customer
calling in, then switch roles.
So I used to teach them, you know, it's not, it's not, hey, you know, John's, John's
skate shop.
It's good morning.
It's John's skate shop.
This is Tim, how may I help you?
Whatever the business is, you're greeting that, you know, your, your smile shines through
the phone and your positive and upbeat.
I used to get people want to answer the phone that way, they'd say, oh my gosh, what a difference,
you know, I never, it's just, the team will get confidence because the customer is going
to say, how nice, what a nice welcome.
But they don't, they usually don't have those skills to do that.
On your website, you have a lot of curriculum.
So tell me about your curriculum, explain a little bit about what a dad would get out
of taking that course and how it would help them navigate this process of preparing their
team for life socially.
I have the main book, which, and the differentiator with my products is their quick and easy to read.
I spent a lot of time for my smile and succeed for Teens book.
I spent nine months meeting with teenagers, even though it was based on my first book,
which also I spent a lot of time getting rid of any wasted words.
So they're low-reading levels for comprehension.
The team book is a fourth-breeding level.
It doesn't mean that it's dumbed down.
It just means we got rid of any words that get in the way of comprehension.
So it's quick, easy to comprehend.
But what they get is the book, which is a crash course, and there's a parent's guide available.
When you get those two, it's called a teen success kit.
So the teenager gets the book.
The parent has the parent's guide.
So they don't have to go through the book and try to make up questions.
All the work is done.
This was suggested to me to create by parents.
And they can do mock interviews with their son or daughter.
They can do the customer service scenarios.
I also have a teaching guide if they happen to be a teacher.
I have classroom packs.
But for most parents, I recommend the teen success kit, which is the book and the parent's
guide.
Now if they'd rather be online with it, the online course is the exact same content
as the smile and succeed for teens book.
We just poured the words right into the online course.
So the online course is great if the young adult would prefer to do it online.
And then I'd still recommend the parent's guide, the physical parent's guide for the parent.
The online course is the same as the book.
Other than we added curated videos to reinforce the concepts because it's online and interactive
questions and answers.
So I also have an audio book version of it and an ebook version of it.
So I tried to make it so that the teen or young adult could digest it in whatever way they
prefer.
But the parent would definitely want the parent's guide no matter how the teen is digesting
smile and succeed for teens book.
If that makes any sense.
I've hit you know on my website if people go there, there's a testimonials page and I have
over 200 testimonials on from teachers on, you know, on the book.
I had a young lady that when we first made the online course, she's in Southern Ohio and
she's a student and she was actually helping us test the course.
My friend, Diane, was a principal in Southern Ohio.
Now she's a teacher and she knew this young lady who was in the 11th grade and she went
through the course and she said, oh my gosh, I wish I would have had this and, you know,
I wish our high school had this because I'm not ready for jobs.
But after going through your course, I'm really confident.
And I think I could go get a job in a minute and I do really well at it.
So it's just the basics, but a lot of these young people, they don't have confidence.
It's high anxiety with their mental health.
And every sentence I wrote in my solutions, I thought, oh, this will give that young adult
confidence because I remember being a middle schooler and not having confidence.
I didn't have these resources available to me.
So I have had a lot of just a tons of great testimonials, people telling me stories.
I had a woman that runs a restaurant in Greek town and she was going to fire one of her
waitresses because they weren't being nice to police officers.
They didn't like police officers.
Greek town is a big area down in downtown Detroit where they have the casinos and the Red
Wings play.
So she bought three of my books for her waitresses and then came back, this was at a local store,
she bought them.
So I'm hearing this story from the store owner and then she went back and bought seven more
and she said that next morning the waitress got a $20, that same waitress, she was going
to fire got a $20 tip from a police officer the next morning.
And so she said these, wow, I would pay the store owner said the woman said to her, I
would pay $1000 for this book.
So those are the kind of success stories and from schools I usually get a lot of teachers
that will just say I'm already noticing the kids are more comfortable.
They're making good eye contact.
They're standing up straight.
In fact, I had one, it was funny.
There was one teacher that said she used the book in her school and at graduation when
the principal was shaking the kids' hands, the student's hands, the principal came up
to the teacher and said, I expected Lucy, Lucy handshakes and poor eye contact.
They all had great handshakes, great eye contact and they were standing up straight and the
teacher said it's from the book.
So it's full of great testimonials like that because I had a lot of people help me write
the book, moms and teachers and teenagers.
It's not just me.
I knew the basics from my store or the training program, but you know, a lot of people
gave me great input to put this together.
How can dads learn more about your course or get your books?
They can go to my website, www.smilethebook.com and there's the online course there and if they
click on books, they can pick whatever book they want.
There's also the teen success kit in the drop down menu under books so they can go that way.
My books are also on, the online course isn't but my books and audio book and ebook are
on Amazon.
Just make sure if you get the book, it said it's sold by Amazon and printed by Amazon,
ship by, I'm sorry, sold by Amazon and ship by Amazon.
I only say that because they just found a couple of counterfeiters that are taking my ebook
very, and they're selling print books on there.
So it wouldn't be under Amazon's name and they're very low quality because the ebook doesn't
print good.
So I don't want people to get a low quality book.
So again, sold by Amazon, ship by Amazon, not sold by Riley and company and shipped by Amazon.
So just so they get a good quality.
Just to make these easier, also if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I will have the
links posted there for your convenience.
Kurt, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
Three things to start.
Have a family meal with your son or daughter.
One day a week where there's no phones or if you go to a restaurant and have a family meal
with your no phones with where there's no phones and just talk to them.
Ask them, you know what, how was your week?
What do you like to do?
What are you looking forward to?
Things like that.
What are you passionate about?
Are there causes you're interested in helping within the world?
Things like that.
The other thing, if they do have grandparents or if they can visit a senior living center,
take them to the grandparents and no phones.
Have them get used to talking to other people face to face and doing that in a way that's
going to help the other person too, like the grandma and grandpa or at a senior assisted
living center.
I mean, a lot of those people never get to see anybody.
So I think it would be great to arrange a situation where you can go in and just talk
to some of the residents that are just relaxing, you know, there's usually a living area,
kind of a living room area in the center.
I would do that.
And I want to reiterate that that mystery shopping experience, once you go through the
techniques in my book with your son or daughter, then take them into a store and say, okay,
tell me, you know, and there's a there's a sheet you can print out on the parents guide
that's got a mystery shopping experience.
Just fill that out, just see what type of service you had when you went in this store.
The other thing I would say is let your son or daughter get a part time job.
That's so important for so many reasons.
Even if it's four hours a week, kids are not working part time jobs now.
They're losing that confidence.
They're afraid to make mistakes, high anxiety because of this.
This will lower their anxiety.
It will let them learn.
It's okay to make mistakes.
They can practice their social skills.
That would probably be my number one tip.
And if you don't want them to get a part time job, go volunteer with them somewhere with
a local rotary club or like I said in PetSmart, but get them out using practicing those social
skills.
And even if it's just a simple skill is okay today son, let's just go and we'll both practice
saying, saying hello to somebody being a good icon, Tim.
Just that start with that.
If there are more advanced than go into the more advanced techniques in my book.
It has been absolutely honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.
I've learned so much from you and I know the audience has.
So thank you so much.
Oh you're welcome, John.
And then thank you very much for having me.
I really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in
this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
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Have you wondered why God feels like he's a million miles away? Have you ever wished you could not only be heard but actually hear him talk back to you directly? Strahan Coleman will share tips with us on how to pray effectively, how to experience God personally and how to hear his voice clearly.
Strahan Coleman is a musician and the author of several books including his latest book Thirsting. He is also the founder of Commoners Communion.
You can get his latest book here: https://amzn.to/40ewXy9
To learn more about Strahan Coleman or his music visit: https://www.commonerscommunion.com/
Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge
Transcript - How Dads Can Encounter God
Today we are talking about identity and purpose, specifically how you find your identity
and purpose through prayer. And I have brought an expert with me on the program who is built an
entire ministry and even written a book specifically about prayer and how to connect with your
creator. And he will join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Father the Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are
to the stability and culture of their families environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan
Guerrero. Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me. I have a guest on the program,
his name is Strahn Coleman. Strahn is an author and he is also an expert in helping people connect
personally with their creator. Strahn thank you so much for being on the Father the Challenge.
Hey Jonathan and absolute pleasure thanks for having me my friend. Strahn what is the story behind
how you got connected with God? What was your first experience and really understanding who God is
and inviting him into your life and to a relationship? Well I kind of had a few experiences
kind of notched along my life that I think probably transformed my understanding of God but
I think just as a kid I had a real openness to the love and the life and the hugeness of God and so I don't
it's not a particular memory so much as a residing sense of this world is massive and it was created
by a massive God and that God is beautiful and good and loving and I don't really know where I
got that from. I think my mother probably installed that in me she was a praying one but I can remember
thinking that way from you know seven eight years old so it wasn't such a particular experience so
much it was a residing acceptance in the wonder and the beauty of the cosmos and the God who made it.
So you mentioned that you experience God's love how do you experience God's love what does that
feel like to you? Well you know sometimes it is a feeling you know sometimes I can spend time with God
and feel just I guess what we might say emotional love or feelings of love but a lot of the time
what that sense of God's love is for me is actually mostly about an acceptance so I open myself
up to God and one of the things I do when I'm praying that's really really important is I focus
on receiving God's love because when God revealed Himself to Moses most of the show me your glory and
what did God say? He appeared to Moses in his full glory and he said the Lord the Lord gracious and
compassionate, slow to anger and a bounding instead of us love. That's his character that's who he is
and so when I when I come to pray I'm like I need to to kind of bring my mind into submission of
that reality which I don't always I find that difficult to do you know I've got parts of myself
that I don't think are very lovable I do things that are not very lovable and so in prayer when I
want to experience God's love I fix my mind on him as a loving person and I meditate on that and then
I think what does it feel like to receive that love into my body and and sometimes that love
feels like a piece sometimes that love feels like a stillness other times that love expresses in me
crying and confessing and feeling comforted and God's presence and his compassion towards me
and sometimes it's a feeling of emotional love but most of the time it's me slowly every day bringing
my body to the reality that he loves me and whether I feel something or not just kind of allowing my
mind my soul my nervous system my body to kind of relax and exhale into that experience.
The answer that you gave seem very very nebulous and so what I get out of that is the fact that
it has to be it makes every sense that it is because the reasons why you need God's love
are different from every single time you are reaching for it yeah and so the way God responds
to you and offers that love is custom tailored to that specific need at that moment is that
it sounds correct yeah this correct and I think I think too it's really hard for us and we think of
the love of God it's hard for us in our sort of cultural moment where we we really see love as a
heightened romantic emotion which isn't actually true of how people have seen love for you know
thousands of years that really is quite we've got a Hollywood version of love and so when we say
receiving God's love a lot of people imagine an overwhelming feeling of romantic or romantic
emotional sensation but biblical love is far wider and deeper than that and so I like every day when
the sun rises if I feel the sun on my skin I am experiencing God's love because God causes the
sun to rise on the good and evil as friends and as enemies because why he loves them and so part of
the reason I gave such a nebulous answer is because I wanted to flate this idea that experiencing God's
love is always a kind of hyper-emotional romantic kind of experience but we can't live that way we
don't live our marriages that way we can't live without children that way we can't live with anything
in life that way depending on an emotional romantic love for something sometimes love is gritty
sometimes love is kind of forcing yourself to do what you don't want to do precisely because that
person or this thing is of greater value to yourself so I think in prayer what I want to say is
is if we think experiencing God's love always has to be a felt emotional thing then we'll see so much
of our prayer as failure but if we can see love as a sort of showing upness and a receiving and
upbringing ourselves to each other and sometimes that's really amazing and quote unquote spiritual and
and exciting sometimes it's hard work then either way we can see we have an experience of God's
love and that's what matters is that we begin to see God's love expressed in all of these dimensions
and not just in the emotions so I realize my answer was probably a bit vague but I'm trying to
yes suggest that we have to move beyond just an emotional love and into a deeper kind of soul level
embodied love with God if we really want to know and experience it yes yes it might seem nebulous
but your answer is very very real I think about practically you know if if all we experienced was
this romantic sensation that can be quite honest that can be exhausting on the nervous system
the other thing I want to touch on is is listening to God and hearing God so what is the listening
like I've heard some people talk that a good practice is journaling sitting down quiet in yourself
the meditating like you've talked about meditating on God's love
as you quiet down sometimes it's scripture you scripture to do that and if you calm yourself down and
you go into this deep meditation of God and who he is to you does he talk and is it a good practice
to journal when he does yeah I love journaling I mean journaling has been a really kind of
rock bed foundational practice in my life and for me when I pray journal by the way it's like I'll
usually try and journal in the morning first thing when you know to get my fresh thoughts in there
and I'll start by saying good morning father always father because that's the context in which Jesus
called us to pray and he said always pray within the safety and the security of our father
because when you say good morning father you begin the conversation and acceptance
so I start that way good morning father and I might pour my heart out to him and say this is my
emotions of feelings sometimes I'll just say speak Lord your servant is listening which is a
quote of Samuel the prophet or I might say speak Lord I'm listening we son is listening
and then I try and just you know if I sense him saying something I'll just start writing
and I don't try and filter it too much you know I can figure out later if it's just my weird brain
making something up or whether it's God but and then I kind of converse with him and I found
that to be really really amazing in the beauty of prayer journaling isn't so much in the one day
it's in the one year two years three years ten years where you slowly begin over time to see oh I
can see when God is speaking and then when I'm interrupting and I'm I'm discerning His voice and
midst my own and I think that's been really key for me you're right about scripture God speaks to
us so beautifully through scripture he speaks to us and you know in the New Testament
uh in Acts 2 Areed in Dreams and Visions so in pictures in our minds or um in the night if we're
listening and I think he speaks to us just in the in the depth of us you know I think one of the
things we we often undervalue is just the quiet pinch of something on our conscience like I shouldn't
have said that or sometimes the quiet little sense of I should just tell him that this person
you know I'm still going to someone the other day and I just I just felt to say to him man you
look good he goes to the gem a lot I know he's conscious about his body is like you're looking really
good he said no I'm over I feel terrible and I be am eyes out of way or something and I said no
and I looked him in the eyes and I just said mate you look good dude you're looking fit you're looking
healthy you should feel great and that was the leading of God as well and speaking to me to kind
of share with other people so sometimes it's just a little a little nudge in the very depth of
ourselves that we can't often tell if it's us or God until we act on it so there's there's lots in
there there's scripture there's journaling there's the little nudges there's dreams there's pictures
there's sensations and stuff and I I think we just we want the whole sorgas board you know I want to
fill our lives with as many little points and places as we can but I think the the main way that I
listen to God is just by sitting and just allowing his love peace patients gentleness self-control
the fruit of the spirit to fill my being and he speaks to me in his nature he communicates to
me through peace or stillness and in that it's like a hug with it's like an embrace with God it's
like body language it's it's less informational and transactional it's more we are with one another
and I'm just totally transformed by that it's such a beautiful experience the experience you
described is very very different from let's say new age for example I look at things like creation
and you when you mention creation new age is also about creation but the difference is that
in a lot of new age and spiritualism thought processes nature and creation is a God
yeah and instead you are experiencing God through nature so when you're in nature it's the other way
around you are actually moved to a desire to worship the creator of that nature
and that's where the difference lies it's like when you're in nature it's like your home because
you're in you're among the very things that the same God that created you created
and so there there is a sense of of attachment just because you're you're around you're surrounded
by his creation yeah all that does is make you feel closer to him you doesn't make you feel closer to
nature it makes you feel closer to the creator yeah yeah that's so good and I think too as well like
we live in a world that's full of kind of mindfulness and meditation and you know where I live I've
got quite a few friends who are getting heavily into ice baths and they do these aren't believers and
they go on weekends to take sort of a kind of a mushroom and go on trips to encounter themselves and
and I think what I said that the biggest difference you know they'll say what's the difference
between meditation and prayer you know in terms of them they're just kind of sitting there trying
to reach nirvana and for me it's like the biggest difference between say meditation or Buddhism
or New Ageism and in what we're looking for is we are looking for a personal relationship with a
person we are not trying to reach a just state of love or state of peace or state of nirvana and
we're not looking for like you say God in creation like creation isn't God it's sort of as a means to
which we experience in a minute's beautiful but when when we come to prayer when we're talking about
experiencing love and peace and kindness and gentleness these are not mindfulness states this is
an experience of the person of God and I think that's why prayer is so difficult because if it was
just meditation we could kind of force ourselves into it whenever we wanted right it would be we
would just kind of pull the levers and meditate and do the different things and we would kind of
reach the quote unquote state but we don't believe that as Christians we are encountering the living
God and so at least half the relationship I would argue the majority of it is God engaging with us
interrupting speaking you know withdrawing his presence so we would cry out to him loving us filling
us and so we this is this is vital and alive and exciting because we are not in control and so when
that's why for me when I come to prayer it's like I want to understand that I'm experiencing God no
matter what I think I'm experiencing because he's a person who's engaging with me as he desires
and you can't you don't have that same exciting generative relationship with the living God
in the new age or in sort of Buddhism which is primarily about reaching a nirvana or mindfulness which
is just about calming yourself we're moving beyond that into a a relationship with God as a father
which is so beautiful in the dynamic a very common question I hear from people when it comes to
hearing God's voice is how do you know the difference between when you're hearing your own thoughts
you know and by the way on the same exact theta wave that God communicates Satan can also
communicate on that same wave so can other non-experience so how do you know it's not a
demonic experience and or your own thoughts that's such a good question I I am I mean there's no kind of
simple one trick hack on that and and if you read the church throughout history they've offered a
few different ways but a couple of them are really simple you know scripture we always bank things
against scripture the only slight issue there is that even the devil knows how to wield scripture
do you know what I mean like and in some ways you can you can almost make scripture say whatever you
want it to to you and and people have throughout history so it's got to be more than scripture also
has to be community we have to work out okay is this voice correct against the truth of Christ
and the truth of scripture and does that is there consensus amongst Christian community so
that means community present like the church I belong to in my spiritual leadership but it also
means like the church historical you know it has the church historically understood this scripture
or this truth this way is another another safe place and and then thirdly for me I think it's just
practice you know I think we have to practice hearing and she hearing from God and shearing it
and hearing from others okay this didn't this now this was a bit off it really does take time we
have to be patient with ourselves which is human you know me we're figuring out this stuff and I
think we have to be patient with ourselves to say I'm going to vulnerable share what God's speaking
to me with others so I can be safe you know reading in scripture but I am gonna act on it and I'm
gonna see the fruit of those actions if the fruit is love joy peace patients kindness gentleness
and self-control if it fruits goodness in the kingdom of heaven then it was God if the fruit is
pride and fear and anxiety and broken relationships and withdrawal from God's people
then it's then it probably wasn't God and I think a lot of the time if the fruit of the
voices anxiety fear and condemnation we can say that's not of God but if the fruit is love joy
peace patients kindness gentleness and self-control and the desire to give oneself away more we can say
oh yeah that's that's the familiar voice of God one meditation I like to focus on is the concept
of the good shepherd or read scripture I will think about my relationship with my father and focus
on that and then as a quiet myself my thoughts will I let my thought drift over to to Jesus
and the common thing I hear is that I am the good shepherd my sheep know my voice and then
is usually where that conversation starts to happen and right after that that's usually where
I hear God's voice talking one of the things that you mentioned I think is so important to understand
is that you you've said at least twice maybe three times in this conversation we're having
that it takes time getting used to the voice of God I've heard him often through thought
I have heard him powerfully powerfully through scripture a handful of times and dreams
and many times through other people there isn't just this one magical formula or way that God speaks
and you said very correctly you said he's a person yeah just like you have your own ideas and
preferences and things that you prefer to do the same thing with God yeah and it's a real relationship
and that's what a real relationship looks like there aren't these predictable patterns to go off of
that's why I love what you said about the different way how we understand when it's him when it's
his voice that we're hearing and the other thing is this takes time yeah and I love that you know
and it changes over time you know I love your kind of reminder he's a God as a person
and you think about like a child right how a child hears and understands their parents been
there a baby it's like go go go go it loves a cuddle you know what I mean it's like parents are like
doing all the work and communicating and they're being kind of you know express so much attention
but then in order for the child to grow up the parents has to change their communication styles and then
things change and then the language enters them and then it's okay like this and then and then as the
child grows into an adult it's like things change again and I think one of the things we need to settle
into in life is that our relationship with God is not some static thing whereas the way we heard God
yesterday is going to be exactly the same in 10 years and the next you know I've been through periods
where the predominant way that God has spoken to me has been in dreams and visions
you know and and lots of it and then I've gone through periods of time where I haven't had a single one
for like five years and God's spoken to me through prayer journaling and then that's shifted
and it's shifted again and you know it's not they're not clear boundaries but I think we have to be
prepared for God to change how he speaks to us as we change and we grow and we become ready to hear
and see him in new ways too so I think one of the things I've had to let go of in hearing God's
voices the idea that it's just the same all the time and I've tried to be flexible and say God you show
up however you want and there are definitely ways in which that have been consistent through my life
but there have been plenty of times where I've just not heard God for a long period of time in any
kind of conscious way and yeah I've had to go to scripture I've had to listen to to God's people
I've had to really pay attention to the stillness and so I think that's okay too and it's kind of fun to
just think how out of control we are in this you know how we really have control kind of we're just
the big learners you know yeah we are absolutely not in control and even inside of one specific
way that he communicates it's not always the same going back to journaling using that as the example
I've had cases where I've journal pages of information that of what I'm what God is saying to me
and I can hear his voice clear is a bell yeah and everything makes sense and I had one instance where
I came prepared excited waiting to hear God's voice yearning to hear his God's voice
and he spoke but it wasn't in in a page long speech or however you want to look at it it was short
it was just a few lines that's all he had to say and in that specific moment that I'm recalling
all God said was go back and read the very last thing that I said to you go back and read that
read it several times that was it that's all he had to say to me amazing and so I went back and I
read it and that's where the experience was when I went back and read it it was like reading it for
the first time the words felt different everything felt different and everything felt relevant to where
I was in that moment of my life so stront I want to really talk about your book thirsty and you just
wrote a book tell me about thirsty what is this about and why would dads want to read this first
thing is a book about really about desire to book about what it means to be people who ache and long
and how we live in that ache and longing with God but I also tell the story of that the origin of that
longing and the longing and desire of God and so I think there's an important emphasis in the book
that God actually longs for and pursues us as a father as our father he doesn't just kind of sit back
and wait he pursues us he has like a vital longing aching love to be with every human that he's made
and so I kind of suggest that man if this is who God is then desire is really good
and we have to figure out what it means to bring ourselves to God in that same way to know him
and so I kind of have in the book I have these kind of three sections one is it's based on the
scripture that Jesus said if anyone first let him come to me and drink and so the first is if anyone
firsts and it's about recognizing the different ways in which we are dehydrated by the world
and the different ways in which we spend our desire and our longing on far less of things than God
and and what we do about that the second is let them come and it's about what it means to live a life
shaped by communion with God what it lives to live a life of fidelity to understand the depth of our
soul and and how God longs to live with us there and the invitation to be sold equal God
and then the third part is come and drink and it's really about how do we actually drink God
during because it's a quite a fanciful idea we say this kind of stuff all the time so oh I long for God
I desire God I want to go God you know we can come and drink him but what does it actually mean and so
I actually get into some vulnerable stuff of of what it really means to open up and be to be seen by God
to be known by God and in return to actually enjoy his presence there and I think what's critical
about that for fathers what's critical for me as a father and as a husband is that it helps to
unlock these deeper parts of me that I can then offer to my children to my wife that I can live
from a place of deeper acceptance and if I can live from a place of deeper acceptance and communion
with God then I'm exemplifying a kind of a peace and a love and a stillness to my children and to my
wife that that is otherworldly and I can be for them who God has been for me they can experience
that me as a pursuing loving father that accepts them and all of who they are and wants to go deep
with them so yeah so that's that's kind of the heart behind my desire behind this thing.
You're also the founder of a ministry called Commoners Communion what is Commoners Communion
and why did you start it? Commoners Communion actually started out of my when I got really sick
and I'm a musician so I've been touring for years but I couldn't do it anymore I couldn't sing
couldn't write so I started sort of writing blogs and podcasting a little bit for other people who
were trying to reckon with God in the in the in the liminal space like how do we know God when
when when we kind of feel like we're struggling in the gap in the walls maybe through suffering maybe
people who are experiencing difficulty in the world and are just connected with people and so I
started writing prayers and eventually ended up kind of teaching people about prayer and about
communion is something more than just conscious mental dialogue but an actually you know full
body experience of God in our daily lives and and I've I discovered really a lot of people don't know
how to pray and so for me it was like yeah okay let's explore this together and that's Commoners Communion
it kind of just was a happy accident that has kind of kept going which I feel really grateful for.
Strang how can dads listening learn more about what you're doing maybe learn more about
Commoners Communion and how can they get thirsty? Well you can find thirsty wherever kind of books are
you know if you want to sort of go deeper in in this kind of prayer also have written prayer books
so they're like one page a little prayer I sort of one paragraph devotional thing to kind of help
people leap into a deeper experience of God so I have three volumes of prayer books that you can
engage with but otherwise you know anywhere you'll find Commoners Communion you'll find my work I do
a podcast called the Beholding Prayer Podcast and it's just guided meditations on prayer for people
who really struggle to pray and that's available resource too so all of those places you'll kind of
hopefully find some ways to engage with God. And just to make things easier if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com
that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com if you go to this episode look right below the episode description
I'll have all of the links posted there for your convenience. Strahan as we close what is your
challenge to dads listening now? Ooh yeah challenge to dads my challenge would be to be the eyes
the voice the face and the arms of love to our children. I don't mean just in what we say but I mean
in the embrace in the way that we look at them that when they look into our eyes that they would see
the love and the peace and the compassion of God. Easier said than done you know with children
but I think I have not seen anything transform my children more than a loving godly temperament.
Strahan as we wrap things up would you offer a prayer for dads now? I'd love to yeah it's praying.
Father first of all we thank you for being a good involved present and willing father you've loved
us and so I pray now for everybody listening to this conversation to everybody who can hear my voice
that in this moment in their minds and hearts they wouldn't counter this you God the God of Moses
the Lord the Lord gracious and compassionate abouting instead fast by the slowdown.
May they have a full body experience of who you are that they would be rec- that they would receive
the grace to awaken you with you day to day not just for them for their wives for their children
for this one and Jesus name. Strahan thank you so much for that prayer thank you so much for being
on the Father and challenge and I enjoyed the conversation and I know that's there too. Thank you
Jonathan it's been a pleasure. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge
if you'd like to contact us listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program
or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com
that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com
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In this episode you’re going to hear the story of Joseph Belfield a dad who found his identity and purpose through childhood trauma and abuse. His story has inspired many towards healing and realizing their own identity and purpose.
You can get Joseph Belfield's book here: https://a.co/d/9YCknw4
To connect personally with Joseph Belfield you can reach him at:
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.belfield
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Transcription - Severe Trauma to Identity and Purpose
In a moment you're gonna hear the story of a dad who found his identity in purpose through childhood trauma and abuse.
His story has inspired many towards healing and realizing their own identity in purpose.
You'll hear his story in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role.
And a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm joined by Joseph Belfield who's an author and a dad and is here to share his story so we don't want to waste another minute.
Joseph, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you for having me.
Joseph, let's start with one of my favorite traditions. What is your favorite dad joke?
How did Joseph prepare his coffee? He brewed.
[laughs]
I love that one. I love it.
Joseph, let's start from the very beginning. What was your childhood like and how did your life change from there?
I grew up in a broken home. My parents were divorced. I was the second of five kids.
I grew up in very abusive relationship with my dad.
I learned at a young age to take the abuse and just to use that abuse to spare my four other siblings.
But as I grew up into a young teenage, it turned into a sexual abuse by my dad and my brother.
So from there I've just turned into a life of drugs into my later teens and later years.
I mean, it was just a very rough start in the whole time going up. I always dealt alone and just not able to understand why things were happening.
At the whole time I kept searching for God and wanting God to help me.
But in praying and praying and it seemed every morning I'd wake up right back to the same misery and the same pains.
But to grow from there I've learned to now accept God and accept you at times where you are going to be asking for his help and his salvation and his love that I might not see it right away.
But if I allow myself, I will find it and it's there for us at all times.
And what about your dad? How did your dad grow up?
My dad grew up in a very apparently abusive relationship, relationship family dynamics.
Not so much on my granddad's side but for my grandmother's.
They were like 13 siblings in a two bedroom house.
Apparently the sexual abuse was very rampant in that lifestyle back then.
And it was his philosophy was you know what just happened back then. It happens now.
But that's how he learned how to deal with things and do things. So he just continued that cycle of abuse and he was a drunk and his parents were into alcohol as well.
So it was just one cycle after another.
How many generations back does this go at least from what you're aware of?
From what I'm aware of at least three generations.
Bruno is a guest I've had on at least three times on this program and he speaks often of what we call the generational train where within our family there are certain addictions that can go several generations back.
And the turning point is when we become aware that first of all we're on this generation train and we understand what car we're writing in.
And how far back that train goes at least from what we can tell or what we see and know.
And that tells us everything we need to know about what preparations we should make maybe what changes we should make in our own life to protect ourselves and to protect the next generation from writing that same train.
So I think that's powerful that you were aware of that and that you understood that.
And it was like like I said even growing up as a kid you know you always heard well my parents did that to us you know if I said this or did that my parents would do this so it's like it was ingrained in their psyche that you know what.
It was acceptable abuse and it was acceptable to do that because that's what our parents did.
I think that's so important for the audience to understand is that you know we we might be quick to point fingers but every parent can probably admit if they're really honest with themselves.
There is no manual first of all and so oftentimes the only thing we have to go on is our parents if they were physically around then our parents become the model for how we're supposed to parent.
And if our parents aren't around we either come up with our own system which actually is just based on observations we see around us what we see other parents around us doing.
So we followed those trends because we have there's nothing else to go on then that's the thing there is no like you said no manual they don't come with the manual like a car does you know you get a child and you have to figure it out and you have to either help your ask your parents for help to figure it out or figure it out when you're own a lot of these things these TVs shows that people try to portray families are not realistic.
It doesn't happen like that in a real world.
That's a really important point because there's a lot of a lot of people like to sit down and watch these families sitcoms and so we get this idealistic model of what a family is supposed to look like and sometimes we watch these as a coping mechanism to not have to really deal with what's going on in our own homes.
And so true I mean best best thing you can do is just do what you feel is best and pray that you're doing the best.
In my own family experience I grew up as a kid around a lot of trauma I experienced a lot of trauma and I experienced a lot of abuse one of the hardest things for me to face is the idea of forgiveness forgiveness was a very uncomfortable topic and very uncomfortable conversation for me and I avoided such conversations I ran from them I just didn't like them.
The idea of forgiveness hurt my head to just to think about it.
What was that experience like for you?
It was very hard for me at first to forgive my dad and my brother which my dad had passed away and he never admitted to anything so it was really hard to forgive him.
But as I was struggling with it and I was actually driving down the road the one day and it was on the radio and no matter how I tried to change the radio I kept coming back to that one station and I was talking on forgiveness.
And it just kind of dawned on me it made me realize that you know what I had to be able to forgive my dad and my brother for what they did in order to set myself free.
But I also had to learn to forgive myself for allowing that stuff to happen because at a young age I did allow things to happen I did not speak up I didn't say anything.
But and I've learned and like it says in Matthew 615 you know but if you do not forgive men their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses so I had to forgive them in order to get my own forgiveness.
How long did it really take you to get to that point where you were finally ready to forgive?
Several years I mean that was probably two years ago I finally learned to say you up I give them the forgiveness because I did hold that bitterness in my heart.
So forgiving them does that mean that all of the emotions associated with what they did to you does that magically go away when you forgive is it supposed to go away.
For me it didn't take the emotions away but it made it easier to accept as far as they did what they did and it was not my fault it was their fault I did not have to carry that with me for the rest of my life in time God forgives me and forgive them as well.
And it's not for me to judge them for what they did.
From what you've learned forgiveness isn't just saying oh everything is okay because it's not the truth is it's not okay all forgiveness is is saying you know what I'm not going to judge anymore I'm a human being I'm not qualified to judge I'm not qualified to judge those who have sin against me.
I'm going to give the gavel over to God and I'm going to let God judge be the judge in this case and I'm going to free myself from that responsibility.
Right and as humans it's so easy to say hey we should forgive and forget but it's so hard as humans to forget because the only one that can is God and Jesus because they have that blind eye to towards sin once we accept salvation.
And they forgive us our sins and as humans we do hold on to we forgive but we're going to hold on to it and use it as a later date and we should not do that.
I think that's powerful to understand and that's kind of where some of the freedom and healing lies because it really sends us into a place where we now have to go back yes we we let go of this responsibility of judging but now we have to go back and deal with our pain and there there is no running from that forgiveness doesn't necessarily.
For you from that and that becomes a second process on the other side of things as far as the offender is concerned forgiveness does not absolve the offender but they are now accountable to God and God is a God of justice he demands justice and so there is still the responsibility on the offender the offender is now accountable and responsible for making things right for
reconciliation they bear that that they bird they bear the full responsibility of that burden and they are not absolve from that just because we forgave them or just because you forgave them and I truly believe that because you know by me forgiving puts it on their plate to say hey,
what do you do with it can you make the men's or you just continue in your lifestyle was there ever reconciliation in your story no like I said when my dad passed away we were I guess estranged we didn't talk so there was no hey I'm sorry for what I did at one point he did try to apologize to my wife for what he did to me but also turned around said well I just
hit behind the bottle and blame did all on the alcohol it was not the alcohol it was him to there was no resolution to the situation with them and my brother still to this day will not admit to anything is it hard to just move into a healing space with that part of it unresolved or how do you come to a point where you just let go of that reality that you may not ever get that apology you may not ever get that
admission of guilt and responsibility as hard as it was through the forgiveness part it is a healing part or my end as well you know like to say you know what I forgive you I'm gonna try to let this go and heal from the pain inward for myself and rely on God to help me through those tough times and when those times of you know what emotional and remembrance and thoughts is like you know what I do not know what I'm doing is not right.
It's like you know what I just give it to God because I can't deal with it because if I do then there's the hate and the bitterness comes right back so I give it to God and let God deal with it.
So what I'm gathering from this is the healing process and the forgiveness part of this is not really truly possible and fullness without God it really takes a super human effort or power involved to be able to reach that place.
Especially when you have a situation where the offender is has died and you're not ever going to get that apology at least on the side of heaven is just not going to happen and at some point you can't change that you can't change them you can't change that part of the story but there is power there is the option there is the ability still for you to be able to heal and to be able to move past that and then you can't change that you can't change that you can't change that part of the story but there is power.
And the only way that is truly possible in completion is by the power of God.
Yeah and truly and you know even if it took me while to realize even if my dad and my brother was to say hey sorry I did these things and I'm sorry does not take that pain does not take that and grow away that's always going to be there.
So realizing you what even if he's never apologized and acknowledged it God knows and they know and I know that God will take that away from us and he will be the one that deals with it.
One of the things that changed my experience was when I had to come to this realization okay at some point you know there there is going to be a judgment and so I imagine the scenario where it's judgment time.
And I am I am before the father and Jesus is there the Holy Spirit is there and so so were my abusers and we're all standing there in a group and my accusers can't hear what is being said but there is a very personal conversation happening between the father and I where the father asked me so Jonathan what should I do with your abusers do you want me to send them to hell or do you want them to go to heaven.
What is your decision and I came to a point in my life where my answer would have been very very sure my answer would be I would point to Jesus and I would say if they are comfortable spending eternity with Jesus and they are comfortable with that then I am comfortable spending eternity with them.
That is my answer I am not qualified to know if they are however so that is your decision and whatever is decided I'm at peace with and that was the point where when I realize that that would likely be my answer in a scenario like that I'd realize you know what I think I've reached forgiveness.
And for me I had to look at it when it comes that time of being in front of Jesus in front of God to accept our sins in whatever in our acceptance into heaven.
The fact that you have been learning that there is no more pain no more sorrow in heaven that I will no longer remember those times and I will no longer have that in my thought process in brain in heaven because God would have taken that from us.
I've got a very difficult question to ask it's a question that I have wrestled with for a long time and the question is where was God during the abuse while it was happening.
Oh my at the time I didn't see it God was there with me and he was holding me and comforting me but at the time like I said I prayed so many times you know God please end this misery God are you if you're there please help me and I wake up the next day and right back into the same situations the same abuse in the pain and misery suffering was always there.
And it wasn't until like I said probably four or five years ago when I finally started to wrestle with salvation and really accepting God was realizing without that pain and that suffering that God had allowed me to go through and was with me the whole time I would not truly understand his grace and his mercy.
I've heard you say in your answer several times that God was right there with you and I have to I would have to say in my own experience that would have been and still is my answer to that as well I believe the same thing I believe God was was not only present in the abuse but God was also experiencing the abuse in us and that's a powerful thing when you think you know we're all centers and I remember I was.
And I remember I was in a conversation with family over this everyone was was just wondering you know well how can you forgive and and I said you know what sent sent a sin I'm really truthful and honest about I couldn't have said this back then but this has been a lot of study and this has been a long journey in my walk with God to come to this point where I can say this because it's not a comfortable it's not a comfortable truth.
And that is you know what I I am just as bad as they are as my abusers just because they abused in this one specific way does that make does not make them worse than me just because I send in different ways sent a sin so if God went into full judgment mode and executed my abusers he would have to execute me as well maybe not for the same thing.
Not for the same things but surely for other sins to we're all in the same boat when it comes to that so God's mercy is the same for everyone and he wants everyone to have an opportunity to be saved and then there still is choice everyone has that autonomy that power of choice to choose which way they're going to go.
And so even when we come to that truth and that realization that we are also centers it brings us to a different attitude about our abusers of a place of compassion it doesn't mean that we're feeling great and wonderful about what happened we aren't.
But it just means that we understand that they need salvation as badly as we do and instead it drives us back to our heavenly father not only for forgiveness but a determination to walk closer with him and then it hits home because when we mistreat someone God is experiencing that mistreatment through that other person as well.
So it's the same as mistreating God himself and that's a very sobering reminder to us.
Right and like I said I mean during the whole of Houston one thing that does stand out to me is like one time when my dad it taken me to a rock that looked over top of a freeway and told me you know he could just push me off there it will look like an accident.
And what it was God that was there that stopped him from actually doing it and used it as a threat towards me and spared me my life then so God had a plan and a use for me I did just did not see it then.
That brings me into my next question when you look back on your life experience how has it helped you find your identity in purpose for me it has helped me to do especially now to realize you know what the things that have happened to me.
And as traumatic and as painful as he were that I am able to now to be able to use those to be a better person instead of allowing that same cycle to happen to break that cycle to say you know what just because my parents did this to me I don't have to be that person God does not want me to be that person and I think it is through God that I have been able to realize this just because my parents did it and he does not want us to be that way.
He wants us to be better people and to be more fruitful than what we were so what is your purpose now in life my purpose now in life I mean yes I'm a father and I'm taking care of kids plus I'm also taking care of other people's kids because their parents aren't around their the one is deceased the other ones is in jail and they're there are great nieces and it's my job as a parent and as a child.
God to instill that into them to say you know what look here's a nice loving home you don't have to do the same things that your parents are doing here here is a place that is safe and it's my job to take them to church and it's my job to teach them their proper way to be and to let God use me as a vessel to do that as a vessel to help others to heal from their pains and sufferings as well.
Do you ever have imagined that your life would be used to reflect the image of God no at a younger age and growing up middle age no I would never have figured that because growing up you always heard God was so loving and so caring so if he was why would he allow that to happen and now it's like I realize why it happened because he had that use for me this others are going to be suffering and painful that you know what I can be a tool in instrument of God to help them through their pains.
There's a promise that God restores our loss have you felt that experience happening in your own life I believe I have because like I said I have been blessed many times over through the different through the children that I do have now you know what it's a blessing for me to have them in my life because without them you know what I'd be in a lonely spot and it allows me to continually to see the love of God through these children.
And to what it would just transform into young adults as well one of the things that every dad that at least every dad that I know wants to do is to leave a legacy behind and what you're doing is leaving such a powerful legacy good legacy behind for many generations to follow so not only have you been instrumental and completely breaking a generational cycle.
And a generational cycle and a generational curse but you have turned it around and through the Holy Spirit working in you you are leaving a changed legacy for many many generations.
I guess I never look at it is I was leaving a legacy other than the fact that you what I was leaving hopefully leaving some wisdom within these children and within other people by seeing the transformation that I used to be to what I am now.
Say you know what I would like to be like that that's all I can ask for is you know what to have somebody to say you know what I want what he has and not so much as in a materialistic thing but in in the attitude and the kindness that I have.
You've written a book about your experience tell me about your journey in writing the book and how has it helped dads going through the same experience.
First I was just writing as a journal type thing to help myself heal and to deal with the stuff but then through the power of prayer and through my journey with God.
God I guess spoke to me and said you know what I need to write this book you need to write it and have it released out there for others to see it.
And it is helped others and it's going to help others that have gone through the same situations or similar situations that at the time back to come back in our days and you know what you didn't say a word about things that happened to you know what to say you know what it is okay for me to speak of what happened to me it's okay for me to allow others to know something happened to me that I am broken and that I am able to find a path in a way out of that.
And through the brokenness I can turn to God and God will heal me and make me whole again and I've seen a few that have taken this book and transformed their lives to say what I don't have to live that like any longer.
What is the title of your book and how can dads get get a copy the title of my book is God are you there.
And it is available on Amazon.
Barnes and Noble and iTunes just to make things easier if you go to the fatherhood challenge.com that's the fatherhood challenge.
And it is available on Amazon.
How can dads get a hold of you they can message me on Facebook I open and willing to talk to anybody about this.
So if there's any dads out there that would like to talk I'd be willing to talk to them.
And I'll include the link just below the description.
Joseph as we close what is your challenge to dads listening now.
My challenge to dads I would have to say would be to to acknowledge our failings because as humans we are going to fail.
And as fathers we're going to fail no matter how hard we try.
But to accept that failing in those use them as learning tools to teach your children one is okay to fail because we're going to fail.
But when we do fail pick yourself back up attempt and try again and not to let yourself get down too far.
But to also let God work within you and to acknowledge God whenever you can and to allow God to be a tool in your life.
To not turn away from him even in your darkest times.
Thank you so much for that wisdom Joseph.
Would you close this out with a prayer for dads?
Have any father I just asked that you be here with each and every one of us and you know with Jonathan myself and all those listening and that those dads that might be struggling with anything in their lives that you are God.
You'd be there for them and to help heal their pains, to help heal them and to make them better fathers.
When dads are better husbands at the same time you know what that they may be better people.
May it be the tools that you want them to be.
Jesus name of her name. Amen.
Joseph thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge and for sharing your story with us.
Thank you for having me and I look at 4JNB that would like to speak and hopefully maybe in the future right in another book.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to visit the Fatherhood Challenge please visit theFatherhoodChallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com
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Someone once said, “There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God the creator." I’ve brought a dad and husband named Jo'mel Powell on the program to share his story of how he found his identity and purpose.
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Transcript - Filling the God-Shaped Hole
Someone once said, "There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of every man that cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God the Creator."
I've brought a doubt on the program who understands this truth well and he will share his story with us in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role,
and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm joined by a dad named Jamel Powell who is here to share his story of how he found his identity and purpose.
Jamel, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
I appreciate you having me here and you are a blessing to me for allowing me on your platform.
Jamel, let's jump right into your story and journey of how you found your identity and purpose in life.
I want to say around the age of 19, that first year in high school, I was just trying to find my way.
So, you know, I thought I could find my way, you know, by giving me a girlfriend and by finding ways to make money hustling in the streets,
you know, being around the wrong type of crowds, but I want to say within that first year of high school, I found out quickly
that the road that I was going was in the route. I found myself in a lot of gyms and a lot of hard situations
and then a lot of confrontations with a lot of people that was much more powerful than me.
And they let me turn around and get down and pray and call on God and then being lost out here trying to find my way
is what made me get down on my knees and pray because it was rough for a young man in my neighborhood to make it, you know.
I'm from the city of Detroit, Michigan. A lot of our young men in Detroit, Michigan, we are influenced by our environment.
And our environment is full of people that sell drugs, you know, people that commit violent acts,
and even gang culture to a certain degree. So, when we not getting what we looking for at home, we look to these things,
to get the love that we looking for. But I thank God because, you know, I was trying to sell marijuana.
I got caught in a bad jam, you know, trying to let that lifestyle. I realized it wasn't for me because
you have to be an aggressive individual to be a hustler, you know. You have to be a violent individual to survive
because you constantly get tested over and over again and you have to be assertive.
And I realized I didn't want to go that route. Through those struggles and trials, God revealed himself to me.
And when God revealed himself to me, I turned away from all of that and I never went back.
Through all my journey, I probably have struggled with sins and I have backslap,
sitting multiple times, but I have never turned my back on God and I have never went to that lifestyle.
And when I say I never turned my back on God, I mean, like completely given up on God and completely lost
God out of my mind because I had many, many bumps along the road. I got in the church at the age of 19.
I was a licensed minister by the age of 20. And you would think things would go smooth in the church,
but I found myself struggling with identity again in the church, even becoming a minister.
I still was struggling with finding myself then influenced by others, you know, that was still
trying to find their selves. I had some disappointments and let downs in my first experience in ministry
in the church. So then I went down the whole, another rabbit hole, you know, especially after my mother died.
When my mother died, I went on the journey of a sexual sin with women that wasn't of God.
Just kind of out here a little bit. I caught myself trying to get back into the church and
trying to get back into ministry. That's when I met my wife. I met my wife when I was like more focused on
getting my life together, more focused on expanding and my knowledge of God. And she was like one of the
best things that happened to me. She was like a breath of fresh air because I hadn't had anyone like
showed that much love and concern for me in a while. Like, I don't know. It's like God
shined the divine spotlight on her when she came into my life. You know, that was one of the most
pleasant experiences that I had. Even though that was one of the most pleasant experiences that I had,
we started going through struggles within our marriage, you know. I want to say like about four or
five years in, we started going through some struggles. I'm going to say a lot of it was our flesh,
but I do believe that this spiritual workshop is well. So we're not going to turn the blind
into that. Yeah, it just was a rough patch, you know, we got to the point where we had to separate from
each other throughout our separation. We stayed in that connection. We didn't get ourselves involved
with anybody else or anything like that. We were just trying to take a step back and see what we could
fix and see how we can man our relationship because I know we really did love each other.
And through that process, she became pregnant. So this made us even want to work on our marriage more
and more. And with her becoming pregnant, it was just time to get things right and get things
in order throughout that process. Right before my daughter was about to be born, my wife contracted
the COVID-19 virus. Man, this just had me questioning everything, questioning my purpose, questioning
my decisions, questioning this guy really with me, but little did I know that the journey ahead
would be what reveals to me more of what my purpose is and more of what my identity is. This struggle
ahead revealed to me things about myself that I did not know about myself. Good and bad with my
wife, contracting the COVID-19 virus. I took it to the hospital because she couldn't breathe.
And this was in the ninth month of pregnancy. I just didn't know that that would be the last time I
would lay eyes on her for close to two months, you know. I'm just thinking I'm about to drop off
at the hospital and they take care of her for a few days and won't be back at it again, but no,
it was a whole other journey that I wasn't expecting. A three year journey to this day to be exact,
three year plus journey. My daughter was delivered through C-section and my wife was still in the hospital
on the ventilator and medically induced coma. So here I am again, like, you know, feeling like,
like, Lord, you took me away from the lifestyle that I was trying to go down in the neighborhood. I
went to the church, had some disappointments in the church, met my wife and I'm thinking things
going to get better than we started going through struggles in our marriage. They got me questioning
everything again. Then we have a child on the way. Now we're trying to work on our marriage. And now you
hit my wife with COVID to the point that she's on the ventilator to the point that she's in the hospital
for months. And now while she's in the hospital, I got to take my daughter home myself and try to figure
this out. So I was really, really questioning God. You know, I found myself praying and I found myself
fast and I found myself hurting. I found myself alone. I found myself not really knowing what to do.
But one thing's for sure, I knew I knew I was in about to leave my wife and I knew I was not about to leave
my daughter in limbal. Those are the only two things I knew. And though I didn't know how I was going
to continue the journey, though I didn't know how I was going to carry on, I knew that I was going
to continue the journey and I knew that I was going to carry on. Going through this with my wife and with
my daughter brought out more of who I really was, brought out more of my purpose. You know, it showed me
that I really did love my wife and it showed me that I really did have the ability to be a father to
a child, things that I didn't know. You know, they say God knows our hearts and I'm a foreign believer
there, but God knows the good in our hearts and knows the bad in our hearts. But to this situation,
God brought out some good out of me that I did not know was there through this bad situation. He
worked out so much good in our lives, even though we not in the perfect conditions that we would like
to be. He worked out so much good, you know, in our character. The pastor of my church, his name is
pastor Ken Snaggrass. One of the things that I heard him talk about when I first started going to
the church is that sometimes when God doesn't change your situation, he uses the situation to change
you as a person. I feel like everything that we go through as individuals is what moses and shapes us
and character to be the person that God wants us to be. You know, I think about the story of Joseph,
a whole lot. I talk about this all the time. My friends, my family, brothers and sisters in
Christ, they all know I talk about this a lot. Joseph saw the dream of what God was going to do with his
life. He had to understand that God was going to do something great with his life, but he didn't know
it'd be a 13 year journey, a 13 years of affliction that would be what that would be the avenue which
God used to bring the dream to pass. I felt like, you know, when we go on through her times, we just have
to keep in mind, you know, Romans 828, all things work together for the good to them that love God,
to them that they call the court into its purpose. So everything that's going on in the life of a
child that God tragic situations, loss of love, struggles in your personal life, struggles in your
finances, fault loss with individuals like anything you can name like God uses all things to work
together for our good. And that is something that I constantly stress to myself to keep myself motivated
because I'm still dealing with my trial right now. I just want to tell any any father out there this
struggling with fatherhood, struggling in the family and struggling to be a provider, keep
your head up, my brother. The word says all things work together for the good to them that love God,
to those that are called according to his purpose. Everything that you want to do is going to work
out for your good in the end. God knows what's best for us. You know, sometimes we try to go go different
routes with our lives or we have a plan for ourselves, but God has a plan for us this way better than
what we could imagine. You know, I went to be where God wants me to be instead of going where I want to go,
but you know, I mean, it can be it can be her for you know, it's her for when you're dealing with
struggles and situations that you feel that's not fair, but you got to keep your head up, prevail,
fast, pray and continue to fight. You know, I've been in my journey for over three years like I said,
but I've gotten stronger. I've gotten wiser. My relationship with my wife has gotten so, so much better
because I see so much good in her. She sees so much good in me and though we not in the perfect
conditions, though we not in the perfect situation that we would like to be in, we were God wants us to be,
and we on the journey to God's plan being fulfilled in our lives. That's what I want to tell you. It might
seem like you courage sometimes, you know, we go through so much bad. We be like, feeling like, man,
my courage store has God forsaken me or like, I love everything that I love and gave my life over
the God and not seem like it got worse, but there is purpose and everything, you know. See, I feel like,
I feel like this, I feel like the struggles is what develop our character. So if God put us in
high positions or put us in places that he showed us that we're going to be immediately when he
showed us without taking us to a process of character building, we won't be able to stay there,
but the struggle builds character, noble character. Someone God puts you in certain positions,
you have the wisdom, you have this of this of plan, you have the fruit of the spirit exhibited.
I just feel like, I just feel like, you know, though we go through struggles and though it's hard to
stay positive through struggles, the struggle is needed. Talk about that moment in your life when
you first understood and realized that you were born with an identity and purpose at the age of 19
when I heard the voice of the Lord speaks to me. I had left my neighborhood and I was at my
grandmother's house and I was fast and in front. I never forget one of my aunties her name is Brenda
Boom. She gave me a phone call during this time. I was out in California and I got slipped some drugs
and I was so embarrassed about it that I said I wasn't going to tell anybody about that. Like a
bottom-up later she reached out to me and she let me know that the Lord showed her a vision about me
and she said that what the Lord showed her is that you know basically somebody had given me something
that I wasn't used to taking and she just warned me about you know doing those type of things
and that led me to just open up to her and let them know that I look I got slipped some drugs
when I was out in California I said I wasn't going to tell nobody but
I told her because I knew God had spoken to her. So what she said to me is
look she taught me how to fast and pray she fasted and prayed with me for a few days that week
and during one of the nights of the fasting and prayer I was laying across my grandmother's bed
and I froze still on the bed I couldn't move with my eyes open
in the words do as you're doing my son and you shall prosper. Came into my spirit as I was sitting frozen
on the bed and then when I finally got to lose it it was a lot of fear and anxiety on me when I finally
got to lose I said you know what from this day four like after after perceiving that the Lord has
spoken to my spirit that made me want to see God more that made me want to become more of a God
wanted me to be and I feel like that's the moment when I found out that God had a different identity
for me than what I thought so during that process I wasn't even in church it um I started feeling
convicted about things that I was in the consistent pattern of doing uh just second nature I started
feeling the conviction about smoke and I started feeling the conviction about drinking I started
feeling the conviction about pornography I even started feeling the conviction about the language
than I was using and this is when I knew like God had a whole different identity and purpose for me
this is where I knew the start of a new identity was here. Now talk about the moment that time in your
life when you begin to really understand that God is your heavenly Father when did you start to really
feel him in that role as your father? You know at first at first I started at damn rejected by my
own father you know I was in so much trouble in the city of Detroit Michigan that I called on
and I said look that um I got some people after me you know and I just need somewhere to come for a
little while you know because uh I knew the situation was gonna blow over but I just reached out to
my father and said like can I just come and live with you just for a little while
till we get things off he lived in St. Louis, Missouri. He said I call you back
when he called back he gave me the coldest no I ever heard I had never heard of that call towards me
ever and uh from that point on uh I had made up in my mind at that time that I wasn't gonna talk to him
again which I didn't stick to of course but from that point on I started thinking about that script
trying songs that says when my mother or my father forsaken me then with the Lord taking me up so
that's when I started even that made me even more want to seek our heavenly Father being forsaken by
my earthly Father and when I tell you my Heavenly Father took care of me he took care of me by even
through my lack of faith he took care of me through the provisions you know it was times that I deeply
desired things within my heart and didn't even say it to people and my Heavenly Father will bring
what I desired in my heart you know like through the discipline of God that's what that was
experience in my Heavenly Father uh when I when I stepped out of line the the correction and discipline
but I'm thankful for the correction and discipline of our Heavenly Father because
hey that that moses and character too it does it sounds to me like your relationship with God
became so close that you really did not feel like you locked for anything oh yeah I got I used to wake
up around the beginning stages of my walk with grace I used to wake up every day just just like
I wonder what God gonna do today like it'll be little things like I might I might be thinking like
man I would really like some piece of the day in my within my mind and then my I'll see a stop by
the house and have some piece of weather and something like that like like God God uh God is good
God is good and I'll tell you this I ain't nothing like I heavenly Father.
No there is absolutely nothing like him there's another scripture verse where he is referenced as
the Father to the Fatherless yes and that that is very very true this isn't just flowery speech
it is very very literal God will step into that role and he is happy to fill that role coming back
to identity purpose I it was a game changer for me when I understood that in heaven there are
scrolls written about each of us before we were even born before we were conceived God took the time
to purposely write about each of our lives our identity and our purpose were written in those scrolls
and Psalm 139 references that as well and that has become one of my favorite bits of scripture
even in your walk today you know talk to that dad that is struggling with trying to parent a son or a
daughter and they still have that void in their own life from growing up fatherless or in fatherlessness
can be defined two ways it's a father that is either physically absent or physically present
but emotionally absent and unavailable that is also a definition of fatherlessness so talk to that
dad that grew up fatherless and struggling with that emptiness inside of them and they're trying to
raise a son or a daughter one of one of the things I would say the first thing I would say is
you know pray pray the God to give you the wisdom knowledge and understanding on the correct way to
do things in a way that to be effective in a way that the influential to your children in a positive way
but one of the things that I did which is the second thing I would say
everything that I felt like I missed and didn't have that's what I was going to give to my daughter
and that's what I've been trying my best to give to my daughter like like you know my father was in
around throughout all of my elementary and most of my middle school years so we probably would see
him like once a year of that so you know like I just always wanted to know what it was like to have
my dad in the house or have my dad take me to a boy game where you know have my dad sit and watch
TV with me and things like that with me and my sister didn't get that was fueled to my fire to
be what we didn't get be who we didn't have to my child you know like everything that I feel like I
miss everything I feel like I deserve I said I want my daughter to have all of that you know I want to
be at the school on the road assembly I want to be at the winter concerts or when the class is
come together and sing at the school and programs you know I want to be there if she's into sports I
want to be at the sports games you know having an absent father should sparking you don't want to be
a present father having a father that was uninvalled emotionally that caused us girls should make us
want to be involved emotionally to eliminate the scars from our children and that was just my method
pray to God and to try to give my daughter what I didn't get to give her a better start in life you
know missing a missing a prominent male figure or missing that male figure in your life
says you back a lot you know because you started to look to the to the wrong type of male
male figures you know you you start to look to male figures they might not be so much of a good
figure to look to I just want to say you know give give to your child what you didn't get
and give your child that extra boost and that extra start that you were missing.
Jamel as we close what is your challenge to dads listening now I just want to I just want to
challenge you to do your best I know sometimes it's a lot of pressure on fathers and sometimes we
fall short of our goals we fall short of our financial goals we fall short of our parent and goals
and we just fall short in the glory of God but my thing is do your best every day do your best
shoot for the moon if you miss you still amongst the stars don't don't allow yourself to
feel like a failure you may have failed in certain areas being the father but
get back up and try again our failures is what makes us better when we use our failures as learning
experiences we know they expected to know everything and do everything the correct way 100% but we are
expected to give the best that we can give and that's what I want to tell you like give the best
that you can give do the best that you can do Jamel would you offer a prayer for dads listening
now yes yes I will heavenly Father we humble ourselves before you and Christ name
we thank you for grace mercy and forgiveness but we actually don't forgive us for our sins and our
thoughts we actually don't forgive us for our sins in action and the sins in our word but we know
your gracious and merciful and we believe that we are forgiven through the blood Lord as we
humble ourselves before you Lord I pray that you look upon us all all of us families but we have
weaknesses we have struggles but we pray and Lord that you help us to overcome all our weaknesses
struggles and use our failures as learning experiences but we pray and Lord that you help us to
stand in the position that you want us to stand we pray that you help us to be a positive
influence in the lives of our children and in the lives of our family members
Lord the areas that we not doing so great then Lord help us to do much better the areas that we
already doing better and Lord help us to be humble and continue to maintain that greatness
but we pray and Lord that we don't be those fathers that's absent we don't be those fathers that's
there but emotionally absent but we pray Lord that we be the fathers that you call for us to be
we preach we be the husbands that you call us to be and Lord it's all the single fathers out there
Lord get them comfort get them strife and help them to continue the journey Lord
we have to fight against Satan we have to fight against demons we have to fight against sin and
we're still expected to be men sometimes we hurt sometimes we struggle but we still expected to be
men we're so we proud of what they've come and crowned to you and we get back in this world and fight
and Christ's name we pray and amen thank you so much for that prayer and thank you so much for coming
on the Father and challenge and sharing your story we know it will bring a lot of hope and do a lot
of dad's listening now so thank you thank you thank you for having me and I appreciate you
thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge if you'd like to contact us
listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com
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If you or one of your children has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, I brought a dad on the program diagnosed along with his child with bipolar disorder. George Brooks will share his experience and insights with us about living and functioning daily with bipolar disorder and the challenges of raising a son with the same diagnosis.
To get help or advocacy support for bipolar disorder, call the Meta Association at: (214) 810-6518.
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Transcription - A Dad Navigates Bipolar Disorder
Did you know that if a parent has bipolar disorder, the child has a 10 to 25% chance of developing
bipolar disorder? If you or one of your children has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder,
I brought a dad on the program diagnosed along with his child with bipolar disorder. He will share
his experience and insights with us in just a moment, so don't go anywhere. Welcome to the
Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in
their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and
culture of their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings
everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is George Brooks. I asked George to come
and talk to us about his life growing up with bipolar diagnosis and then raising a son with the
same diagnosis. George, thank you so much for coming on the Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you. Thank
you for having me on. George, let's start with an explanation of bipolar disorder. What is bipolar
disorder? Well, bipolar disorder is characterized by mood swings. Those mood swings can go from
extreme depression to what's called mania. And when you're in a manic state, you're very high energy.
You usually have a sense of elation. During that time, I just want a lot of people find themselves
getting in a trouble because your impulsivity is really bad off. So when someone's manic,
they really have to be watched and monitored. But it can fluctuate between a depressed state to where
you can't get out of bed, to a manic state to where you could be exhibiting risky behavior and things
like that. So that's typically what bipolar disorder is described as. I know back in the 60s,
they call the manic depression. So it's the same thing. But it's just characterized between mood swings
that can be controlled or not controlled with medication. How many people do you think
approximately might be undiagnosed just because of how the definition changed from the 60s till today?
I don't think the I think the verbites change. However, I don't think the definition changed
all that much. Now, the thing with diagnosing bipolar disorder is that it can it can look like so
many different things, so many different physical conditions, mental conditions. I mean, if you have a
bad thyroid, some of the symptoms from that could look like bipolar. So in order to diagnose it
accurately, there really has to be a thorough, thorough medical exam, physically and mentally to diagnose it.
But I think people are being misdiagnosed, yes, only because like I said, it massed so many different
illnesses. So if someone thinks they have it, it sounds like it's important that they don't try to
self-diagnose. And instead, they seek professional help. So to get a diagnosis or confirm a diagnosis,
would they go to a psychiatrist for that? I always urge people to go to their physician also.
I get a physical check out to go ahead and rule that out is being a possible cause or any symptoms.
Then of course, follow up with a therapist and a psychiatrist and get help for that and get an
examination and see if you can get an official diagnosis. Also with that diagnosis, you may find that
is not bipolar. It may be something else that's unrelated that you can get treatment for as well.
And if it is a diagnosis, bipolar disorder is treated with medication and therapy or how do
what does the outcome look like for that? Well, see that's the thing. When you're bipolar, you really
have to individualize your kid or what's going to work for you. And it's so many different variables
that go into it such as your age, your economic situation, what stage you are in life, what stage you
are in your illness. So, it will work for me because I also had a concurrent cocaine addiction.
So I had to treat both of those at the same time. But my formula was the therapy, which
I ignored for a long time until I actually got into therapy six years ago and realized the value of it.
And I combined that with my medication and holistic approaches such as making sure I do my self-care,
making sure that I'm taking time, taking breaks. So that in combination with the medication
and therapy does help give me balance. The thing is, even if you're treating bipolar disorder,
you're still going to have fluctuations, you're still going to have ups and downs. But the
medication, the therapy and the holistic approach can help keep you balanced to where you can kind of
minimize those. And at the very least, if you have a good support system, and I don't want to leave that
out, it's key to have a good support system because people can also tell if you're starting to go
into a manic state and he'll intervene. They may say, "George, you know, I know as you're a little
ratted today, you okay." And sometimes they can go a long way because that's what I've done with my
son, Joshua. He was diagnosed about 8/7 and we sort of feel that role with each other. So there's a
lot to treating bipolar disorder. There's a lot to managing it, managing it, but the thing is, it can
be managed. What is your story of being diagnosed and growing up with bipolar disorder? Wow.
I started to own symptoms about 8/7 when I was about 7 years old, which is coincidentally the same
age my son was diagnosed. He was diagnosed with 7 and I started to own symptoms at 7.
Growing up with it was very, very interesting in the sense that my parents were not to norm in terms
of many black parents because they believed in getting help. They didn't say, "Well, you're not going
to church enough, but that's not real." They said, "No, it's something going on. We need to treat it."
And you can't just pray this away. So they really started my mindset to be active about my treatment,
but due to the extended circumstances through adolescence, you know, it was not easy for me.
dealt with a lot of trauma in my early life dealt with family issues, dealt with health issues,
chronic health issues from about 8/7 that still are on me to this day.
dealt with the pressure of being an adolescent, dealt with an eating disorder where I was obese,
most of my teenage years. So you add all that in and then you just suppose that with a society that
does not understand mental illness, especially in a black community and you're going to have a problem.
So it was very challenging coming up. It was very challenging dealing with things, but I made it through.
And I think in age 46, I formulated a system in a way of living with my progress order that's been
beneficial to myself and my son. So it sounds like the deck was really stacked against you as far as
figuring this out. You have so many different challenges going on in your life and this comes back to
understanding what you said earlier. When I asked you, you know, as the treatment pretty straight
forward is it just pop a pill and and get therapy and that's it, you're good to go and
and you said no because everyone's circumstance is so different. And so what is required to manage it
likewise is very different. And when you explain some of the circumstances that you were going through,
that was really complicated. How long did it take them to figure out something that was going to
work for you? What day is it? Because here's the thing, typically about polo disorder,
when you get your official diagnosis, which I was given mine at age 25. It typically takes, and I've
heard different numbers on this, about 10 years to fit them to find a cocktail of medications that's
effective. I've been on so many different medications since, you know, all my life trying to find
a routine that works. You may find three or four cocktails that make a cocktail that may work
beautifully with your bipolar. For six months, four a year, if you're lucky two years, but your
body chemistry changes, you know, you're dealing with the chemical imbalance and you're dealing with the,
you know, external stem-alive real life. So things are going to be changing so much and there's
so many new drugs and they have so many different effects and things like that is really tough to find
a combination that works. Now they typically go with an antidepressant, a mood stabilizer,
and something for mania. That's usually what they do. They usually give three. For a long time, I was on
lithium, which if you know anything about lithium, it's extremely, extremely effective, but the side
of fix is so bad, I can't take it. I wish I could, but I can't. So that's one of the challenges too is that
they're being an effective medication, but you can't take it for whatever reason, whether these side
effects or availability or cost. You know, that's a crime of kill this you're being bipolar. We have
state meds every day, usually multiple times a day. And that's something to manage too because a lot
of times you're insurance will not cover it if you have insurance. So there's so much that goes in
a managing it just from a pharmaceutical level and from a therapeutic level, but the life management
skills was really, was really important. This one thing I speak on is to overall life management
and people management and time management that goes into the bipolar disorder because it's a constant.
It's always there. It's always there. And the sad thing is that oftentimes you can't even have a good day
without questioning am I manic. If I have a good day, I'm so worried if I'm having a good day because
I'm really having a good day or am I having a good day because I'm manic or it's just real. So that's
something I encounter all the time. So that's another part that makes it a little bit difficult to deal with,
but it can like I said, it can be managed as long as you have the right, you know, right,
apparatus, apparatus in place and you have the right support system.
You mentioned your son was also diagnosed. How early did you say he was diagnosed and what were some
of the signs that you picked up on that was your clue? He's 19 now. So he was diagnosed about 87.
Some of the symptoms I saw were mood swings, being very overly emotional. I just felt it. I just
felt that my wife at the time really saw it too. And we got him diagnosed and everything. Now he lived
with his mother. He and his mother are now not together. He lived with his mother. She had primary
custody up until a certain point. And one of the things that raised the child about polo disorder
is that unfortunately sometimes you have another period to deal with. You have their family to deal with.
And especially if you know how ignorant they are, they may fight you on getting your child here.
That's what I deal with. I couldn't get my son all his medications like I wanted to because
I was come back, you know, had a combat of relationship with her and her family. So that got in the
way a lot. But I was given, I went and fought for custody. I've him was given custody of him.
And even then it's still a challenge because he has his own ideas about his treatment, especially as a
teenager. You know, I don't think I need medicine. I don't think I need this. I think I need that.
And that's another challenge. And raising a bipolar child is that you do have to educate them,
make them feel safe, teach them how to manage, but also there'll be times when you'll butt heads with
them over their treatment because you may be older and have experience and know what's best,
but at the same time you have to individualize that for your child. So it can be quite, quite complicated.
Was it helpful at all for your son to understand that you're going through and have gone through
the exact same thing and you're walking this journey together? I think it's one of the things that's
really, but we've always been extremely close, but it's a bond that we have because if I'm manic or
if I'm having a good day, he'll tell me, dad, I can tell something's wrong and we kind of keep
each other in check like that. So he, I think he understands what I go through. I definitely, especially,
not only the fact that we're both bipolar, but I'm his father, I can pick up on his moods.
I can look at him and tell, okay, this is going on and that's going on. And what I do at that
point, what he'll do at that point is that we'll pull each other inside and we'll talk about it.
We'll talk about what's going on. We'll talk about the medication. That's been such a fortunate
thing for me to have that kind of relationship with my son. What are some of the stereotypes associated
with bipolar disorder and how does that contrast with the truth? That is somehow a character flaw,
especially in a black community. You're seeing his last thing. You can tell him, you drown a
bag of puppies. They won't say a word, but you tell him you have mental illness and I swear they
will, they won't run from you. What the truth is is that it's just an illness, just like anything else,
it's just like my diabetes, it's just like my heart defects, it's just like other things I have going
on would be physically, which is a lot. I just have to manage it just the same way I would
anything else, just like I have to take my moods, they belong to my hand, or the person.
Two or three other men's I take from my bipolar, I have to take my insulin. So a good hour,
two couple hours of my day, every day is just managing medications, managing how I'm feeling,
managing my health care. That's the thing that people don't think about. They just think,
"Oh, he has a mental illness, he's somehow a character flaw, he's somehow deficient, or he's somehow
incapable of doing the same things I can do." That's not the case.
So your lifestyle, other than treating the illnesses that you have, doesn't really differ from
really anybody else. You are not limited, you can participate in the same activities that everybody
else does. Right, well, sometimes, now with special accommodations given sometimes, because it is
the bipolar, is the debilitating mental illness. It really is. So, you may not be able to work a
nine to five. Most people with bipolar aren't going to be able to work a nine to five effect,
now without many accommodations, they aren't going to be able to do a lot of things to the, to the
fullest extent of everybody else without taking the consideration of their illness. So, that's the
only thing about it, but I've been able to function pretty well on my own. Pretty much no meat
doing a regular nine to five is never going to happen, just because of health reasons. So, I'm trying
to find other ways to generate revenue for myself. And so, I've taken that path in life.
As far as special accommodations are concerned, does that fall under the Americans with Disability
Act? Yes, but I feel like we need to expand it to include more mental health specific protocols,
such as time off, break time, things specifically geared toward mental health, because, you know,
in terms of physical health, that's easier for people to see, most of the time. But you're dealing
with something as abstract as mental health, and especially from a legislative standpoint,
it's hard to mandate things in place to deal with mental illness when you can't see it.
Or people still have such a stigmustized concept of what it is to have a mental illness.
It's funny because it's the one thing that truly does affect everyone at every race and color,
but we all aren't dealing with it the same way. All of us are affected by mental illness either
directly into regular. But the thing is, is we're still having overcome stereotypes, we're still
having to have these discussions. In my hopes in the next twenty-thirty years, we can ease up a lot
of a rhetoric that's involved with these conversations and seek out real care, but as far as accommodations
might be work from home, might be, I need time off, maybe I need to work in a different department,
or maybe you can't deal with people. But, you know, as long as the accommodation doesn't affect
the profitability and efficiency of the company, I think they should be adhered to when it all
possible. So the bottom line is, if somebody's diagnosed, they really have to advocate for themselves,
because the education to the general public just isn't there to really understand what's going on.
No, and I, you know, I started non-profit about six years ago called NetA association,
and what I do is I advocate for people. So, you know, even if you can't advocate for yourself,
then maybe it's time when you may be sick and you can't. So make sure you know of an advocate
that can come in and assist you, especially dealing with mental health because that extra support
is going to go a long way, especially if you have any cognitive deficiencies because of the mental
illness, or if you have any communication problems, or when you're in crisis, you can't communicate
the same way. And so, I strongly, I'm a staunch advocate for advocates, myself included.
How can a dad best support their spouse or child who has been diagnosed? And let's say this is a
very new diagnosis to them. Educate themselves and get into support groups and practice self-care.
Educate themselves, get into support groups, practice self-care. Those are the three best things
you can do. Educate yourself so you understand the illness. So you have a concept of what it is,
what kind of medications are used for their particular illness? How can it affect them? What are
the side effects? Get into support groups just to support yourself and get experience and hear
the stories from other people because for one thing, that'll let you know you're not the only one.
And, you know, the thing about being a parent with a mentally ill child is that sometimes you feel,
so isolated, you feel as though you're the only one. But not only that, there's a lot of self-blame
involved. You know, you ask yourself, well, what did I do? What's wrong with me that I passed this
down? And all things just happen. My bipolarism and my family is genetic, okay? And I didn't have
anything to do with me getting it or him getting it, but we have to deal with it. So that's part of the
where the support system comes in. And third is self-care. Understand that you can't run yourself
ragged to take care of anyone and think you're going to do them any good. So take time off, do self-care,
get in therapy yourself. That's another tremendous asset. If you're a caretaker of a child or anyone
with a mental or any illness, get in therapy, get into a place where you can top those things out
because they will come up and they will build up. So just to reiterate, it's going to be self-care,
it's going to be educating yourself and it's going to be support groups.
So when you get a therapist, one of the things to expect and a lot of it, maybe this was the same
with you, a lot of therapists will actually screen for that in their application process. They will
ask that at some point for medical diagnosis like that because it does change what they do for treatment,
how they treat you in therapy. Right. Especially in terms of medication, because I have to get blood
work every month, just because the medication I'm on and my health issues may affect my internal
organs or something like that. So yeah, they really, and they get a lot better about it in the past
few years, really kind of coincide in your physical health, your mental health and making sure
that you're on the right medications that have cost you as few side effects as possible.
Now as far as a single parent situation, is it helpful to have an advocate that works with that
specific situation? As far as being a single parent, what's really important is to advocate for yourself,
advocate for your child, but have resources in place, have your therapist on speed now, have the
school counselor on speed now. Try to surround yourself with people that really care about you in the
child, that aren't going to bring any drama to it. Being a single parent is really about who you
surround yourself with. You really is, especially when you're dealing with a child with a mental illness
or another health crisis. So, and one thing I'm seeing with a lot of people that are also
pairs there with mental ill children, they did have a support system, so that affected them to
their detriment. But it's important to build that support system and build your advocate team,
having to have a plan for when someone does get sick to go inpatient, have a plan if anything
happens. Treat it like it's a fire hazard. And that's really how you have to address your
mental illness. You have to have things already in place that you can do, should something go wrong.
What role did faith play in helping you just to maintain your stability and helping you to just
survive from day to day? Add a tremendous effect for a long time. I ran from God. I ran from spirituality
up until about six years ago when I decided to get off the cocaine, get off the drugs and try to fix
myself and heal myself. I began to talk to God, but God lives in me. So, I spent all my time
praying. I do all that, but I believe that my faith is important to me because I have my own personal
relationship with God that's not dictated or predetermined by anyone else or where they're standards.
And until I learned that, something was missing in my relationship with God. But when I learned
it's my relationship and it didn't have to look like your relationship and it didn't have to be
like your relationship in this unique thing to me and my spirituality in my heart,
that's when I found a great sense of peace. A lot of times we think that we are alone with
dealing with some of the stuff and you're absolutely right. Faith looks different for everybody and
it should. My faith should not be yours or it's not really faith. Walk us through that process of how
God really transformed your life, specific things that he changed in you.
Starting on the path of healing myself, realizing that therapy could be beneficial to me,
taking a lot of accountability for things in my life that I was the cause of. Before we try to heal
or recover in life, we have to look at the mirror and acknowledge what we are responsible for
in terms of our lives being at that point where we need to recover. And the reason I say that is
there's often a way of doing things where we put it on everybody else. Well, Max White did this and
my brother did this and well, first you have to look at the mirror first before you can hold those
people accountable. And one thing that God allowed me to do was allow me to accept the fact that even
though I'm holding those people accountable, I can't expect them to respond the way I want them to.
I may want closure, but maybe what I got is just what I got in terms of closure. So my relationship
with God taught me to accept a lot of things, taught me to kind of harden my heart a little bit,
not be so trusting, you know, and a lot of that comes with faith. I think for me the biggest
game changer was forgiveness when I really learned to forgive. And that doesn't just limit to human
beings. You can forgive situations, circumstances that were put on you, deserving or doesn't
deserve me. It doesn't make any difference, but there is a power in forgiveness and one of the
greatest definitions that I heard about forgiveness is that it's like walking into a courtroom
and you have the gaville and you decide you're done. You don't want to judge anymore and you walk
up to God and you hand in the gaville and you're just saying, I'm done here. You judge. And that there is
a freedom in that. I wonder if that's a little bit of a taste of kind of what you went through spiritually.
Yeah, yeah, learning learning to trust God and have faith in their faces built over time.
It's not like you wake up one day and you talk to God, oh, okay, I have faith. No, it's built over time
and it has to be tested otherwise not faith because faith without being tested is nothing but obedience
and dogma. And that's not what you want to believe, you want to have faith. You want to really
believe you don't want to do something just because, okay, the Bible says I should do this, so I'll do
this and not feel it. And I think this is what a lot of so-called Christians do is that they
quote, Bible, scripture, all day, when it comes to the real work or the real living with God, they don't
do it. They can't do it. They don't know how to do it. They know how to make it look good, but they
don't know how to do it. So, you know, it's not how loud you shout and poop is not how how how how
hard you bang your 10 brain is when you're long and going through it. How earnestly do you talk to God?
What are some resources for dads facing bipolar disorder? My nonprofit meta association, you
can reach as a 2148106518 as far as resources. It's not really a lot. There's really something right now
and resources for men and things to help men because I think for a long time, we've ignored ourselves
and we've been ignored, especially black men, especially. So we're looking at ways to build resources
to where we can't have things to where we can't get the help we need without having to wait on someone
to do it for us. So, you know, the greatest resource is just going to be, you know, just hunting out
different nonprofits, different men's groups. Facebook is as good support groups. Just try to make your
way right now while we try to build up what we need as men for ourselves, just like the women have
to support themselves. We have to build ourselves. No one's going to do that for us.
Just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to
this episode, look right below the episode description, I'm going to have the organization that George
started. I'm going to have his organization posted right below the episode description for your convenience.
George, as we close, what is your challenge to that dad listening now?
I challenge you to grow. I challenge you to be patient with yourself, to treat yourself like a seed
that you have to water, that you have to cultivate, that you have to nurture, to get the, to reap the
harvest that you want to reap from yourself. The thing you have to keep in mind when you plan to see
this dark is wet, it's cold, it's unpleasant, but this part of the growth process, you have to understand
the same process that we go through as men. And find support systems, find healthy ways to deal with
things, find positive things, try to keep your heart young, especially your parents, spend time with
your kids as much as you can, just try to live life, but try to live with a sense of purpose.
And even if you're not a believer, believe in something, something other than yourself,
and try to follow that. And once you define your purpose, pursue it with your whole heart,
regardless of anything. And I think that's our purpose. This means to have our purpose in
and pursue it. It's not to sit up during getting married and pay bills, it's not to do this, it's not to
do this, but to pursue a purpose, not a dream, not a ambition, because dreams are temporary, dreams of
fleeting. You can achieve a dream in one day and then what? What is your purpose? Because the purpose
is one thing that cares you throughout your whole life, part of my purpose is being a father,
and I'm proud and happy to be born. So the overall theme here is that every, every father, every
dad must know and find their identity and purpose. That is the number one priority, without that you
are not complete without that you don't know who you are. Yes, George, it has been absolutely an
honor having you on the father and challenge. Thank you so much for sharing your story with dad.
Thank you, thank everyone, Matthew, too. I really appreciate you all taking the time to listen to me.
I appreciate you doing nothing but blessings in the very best.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge, please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you enjoy stories, you aren’t going to want to miss this one. You’re going to hear a woman’s story of how she found her identity and purpose through a crisis of faith fueled by trauma and grief. Andrea Brunswick is a Creative Life Strategist with a mission of helping women over 50 find their identity and purpose.
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Transcription - Andrea Finds Her Identity and Purpose
If you enjoy stories, you aren't going to want to miss this one.
In just a moment, you're going to hear a woman's story of how she found her identity in purpose and life.
So don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire
fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role,
and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability
and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me.
Andrea Brunswick joins me now and is ready to share her journey of finding her identity in purpose.
Andrea, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
We can miss Jonathan. Thank you.
Well, Andrea, I know there is a lot to your story of finding your identity in purpose, so
we won't waste a minute.
Yeah, there is a lot to unpack with my story.
A full story, really, of trauma.
The trauma from loss, grief, death,
and all of the madness and the insanity that it brings.
But I think I have a lot of trauma also because Jonathan,
for my majority of my life,
and I'm just turned 62, so a lot of life, a lot of living,
I was of the world.
I was of culture and of the world,
and the lanes that I played in were new thought, new age, law of attraction.
Not even understanding really that there was anything wrong with that.
Because when you don't know what you don't know, you just don't know, right?
Like God has always spoken to me since I'm a little girl.
I've been able to hear Him very clearly.
My roots are Judaism, and I've always felt a presence
very close to me. It's sometimes on my body, I could feel something.
Now knowing what I know, I believe that that was the Holy Spirit that was on me, right?
So I always felt that, and I always heard from God.
And for Jewish people, we would never think that we can't hear from our Father as Hashem,
right? Because it was always just us and him.
So in any case, at the beginning of 2021, I heard, I was coming out of my meditation,
which was my morning routine, and I heard him say to me, "Andrea, this is your year to unlearn."
And I was like, "Okay, unlearn." I don't really know what you're talking about, but whatever.
I'm like, "Yeah, take me where you want to take me." Well, he did.
It's so funny because I didn't even know I didn't see it coming.
So it was, you know, when the world went mad from 2020, as I, and I don't mean any offense to anybody,
because I do know people have lost loved ones. I don't mean any disrespect, but
and I'm Canadian. So Canada went mad and we weren't locked down the longest. So I was hearing
this buzz about this social app. I don't know if you know it, Clubhouse. So I gone on there because I
thought, "Geez, that's going to be really good for my business, which my business is. I'm a
creative life strategist for women." You know, meaning, "It's my new term for life coach." I thought,
"Well, this is really interesting, and I think I'm going to really like this." So I went on,
and it was like the beginning when I got on there, and I saw this room, and I thought, "Oh,
it sounds really interesting, because I thought it was going to be a discussion about a book that I
had always loved." But I got in there, and the owner of the room does her little spiel,
introducing what her room is all about, and she says, "I'm a Christian business coach for brilliant
Christian female entrepreneurs." I thought, "Okay, whatever. I'm in the right place because I'm a female
entrepreneur." The whole Christianity thing doesn't mean one thing or another to me. I'm just
going to be here. Well, it was about that first week where I realized, oh my goodness, how intentional
was a Hashem. My father, I felt like I did when I went to kindergarten, and my mom walked me to
school that day, and then she got me to introduce me to my teacher. That's how I felt like my father
brought me here, and he's placed me, and I knew I needed to stay. I didn't know why. I had no clue.
Make a long story short. Not set me on a path because I was so in awe of these women who,
and only for this sole purpose, the room basically was filled with black Christian women.
And from my whole journey now, I see how the black church is often very different from the
non-black church. And I was like, I was blown away because they did, first of all, the owner of the room
always used a scripture to create an activation, and the majority of them were from the Old Testament.
I thought, well, this is very interesting. This is really weird because why do these women know
the Old Testament better than I had ever heard of Rabbi say it? Or, you know, I grew up in a primarily
Jewish area. So growing up, the majority of my world was other Jews. So that set me on a course
still, and with them fine. I started to do my research, and I went on to see what I call YouTube
University, which I love because we can't get educated. I mean, the internet isn't as bad as they
want us to believe, and social media isn't as bad as they want us to believe. There is a lot of good,
and it brought me a lot of good. So what it did for me was it broke things down like I started to
do some searching of messianic Jews, and their stories were like, my story. We're Jewish,
in a Jewish household, you don't bring up Jesus. Yeah, he was born a Jew, he was a prophet, but that was
where it ended. Okay? So I thought, well, this is very interesting. And then I'm still in this room,
and I became now really integral part of the room, and then I found this show that chose him,
because it was always something, really basically, I think my whole life, like probably by the time I
was like double digits, I was still being sent to Hebrew school on Sundays, but there was something about
not so much about being Jewish because I loved being Jewish, and I loved the traditions, and I
loved the holidays, and I loved the food, but there was something about it that did it sit right
with me. Well, along came the chosen, and the episodes with the Pharisees, and the Sadducees,
and it was like, oh yeah, that's it. This is exactly what I never felt. I always just felt like
stop saying that I can't, as an example, you know, Jewish people aren't allowed to eat pork because
it's an unclean food, it's not kosher. And if you do that, you're not going to get to heaven,
and not been sick right with me as a kid, or there was other things, and I thought, this is it,
it's that condemnation, it's that this law sets you up for disaster and destruction. So
a way I went, I just kept following where the Lord was taking me, and towards the end of 2021,
I think it was September, maybe in August, September of 2021, my very close friend who I'd been
friends with since college, just backing up a bit. I brought her to this room on Clubhouse, and my
friend had, was raised from a Catholic, and I used to refer to her as my very, about, devote Catholic
friend, and I introduced her to this room on Clubhouse when the Lord said, bring your friend here,
bring her in this room, and I did that. And she was like, where is my little Jewish friend bringing me
into this Christian room, like with all these really Christian women. So in any case, she was like,
she said, I think you're Messianic, and she would choke around, she'd go rabbi Eddie,
one, as I said, August or September of 2021, she said, "Andre, do you want to give your life to Christ?"
And everything made sense. And I said, yes, I do. So the one thing I think about having been in
the lanes of new age and new thought, law of attraction, doing Buddhism, doing, you know,
Hindu chants, it was about the supernatural, the supernatural about the Lord was what I only knew
for him to be, the supernatural power who could, you know, part the dead see, who could kill Goliath with,
you know, with David, right? Because it wasn't David. It was the supernatural power of a Hashem.
You know, I'm telling you, the Lord works in the most mysterious ways. So I have a friend who
were kind of, they were related through, through an uncle of hers who married a cousin of my mons
and we grew up in the same area, like we grew up in one area where we were both born and then our
parents moved to another area where we stayed and we grew up. So I've known this woman my whole life.
And just before the pandemic, she was talking to me about Christ and things. Now her mother had converted
to Judaism. But Christ has always been this interest for her. So we're on this path together and we're
talking about it. I actually had her do this in her spare, but it was because of her and a connection
that she made at her church, at her gym. And she just started talking about the Lord. This woman
talked about a church that she belongs to because both of us had wanted to get baptized, right? So we
started going to this church together. And I mean, how awesome is that? That somebody that you've grown
up literally with your whole life, we got baptized in the same day together. We had an experience,
Jonathan. What an it's funny because leading up to the baptism, I don't know, my, was like,
my stomach was giving me issues and, you know, it started to have like things and like headaches and,
you know, that enemy did not want me getting water baptized, but I just said get out of my way.
And he was doing the same thing to my friend. But oh, wow. And it's been remarkable. Like, the, the thing is,
is that the day of the baptism was all my daughters 27th birthday. And there's been some issues
between myself and my children in the last couple of years. So I thought, wow, how significant is this
that I am water baptized on my daughters 27th birthday? This has been something that I have been
desiring. I'm over the moon, Jonathan, over the moon. So when all of this was taking place, I was
sensing and hearing that the purpose that the father wants me, obviously, I'm still a mindset coach.
And I work with him, but now I no longer use modalities of the world in my, my coaching practice.
Now it's about biblical principles. Now what's about really leading women to understand that there
is an enemy because a lot of us, I didn't even know about it. I mean, I had no clue. I was who,
Disney in my brain. And because I would plan the different spiritual realms, I can't even believe
that I, but see in Judaism, they don't talk about how really and in Judaism, they don't really talk
about the enemy, right? So I lived my whole life, not knowing, but man, oh, man, oh, man, when I found out
that there's a centimede, that knowledge is power and Hosea 46 spoke so loudly to me. And I needed to be
able to just very humbly accept my, my own ignorance because it was my ignorance that was causing my life
to perish. But you see what I said when you don't know what you don't know, you just don't know.
But once you know, there's an obligation to do better. I sense as I was saying that the Lord is using
me as a bridge. He's using me as a bridge for others who are very much of the world, for other women
who, where their lives are blowing up, where relationships are being really super destructive and they just
can't seem to understand why this destruction is happening in their personal and in their
professional life. And in all of those intimate relationships, whether it be with their spouse,
whether it be with their children, their siblings, their parents. So he really wants that. And I do
think also Jonathan, I don't know how I, well, I don't need to know how because he's going to take me
and he's going to place me. But also for my own people and leading them to really what the truth is
because I think he's really had enough of us and our disobedience, just saying.
You referred to God as Hashem. Yes. The Old Testament Hebrew name for God. So I wanted to
just kind of clarify that, bring that out for those that are like, who's this Hashem that she's
talking about. So thank you. Thank you. Yes. So let's talk about how Hashem became your heavenly father.
Well, see, here's the thing, Hashem again, because when the Jewish roots are always really,
because we only know about the father Hashem. But where it's different now, I used to say,
before I gave my life to Christ and before really accepting Christ and everything making sense to
me about Christ, I was one of those that would say, you know, it's God in my own definition and
understanding. It's my own personal relationship. And that very much was true in reference to
my Jewish roots because I didn't believe that I had to do all of this stuff in order to be accepted
or in order to get into heaven. Okay, that being said, that was I think on a more shallow surface,
superficial kind of level. But now, Johnathan, now that my heavenly father, so grateful, so grateful
to Yeshua Christ, Jesus, that He went to the cross, that He had rescued me, that my father loved
me so much, because now we know when I trace back, I have a really good memory, Johnathan, like I can
remember back the time, like when I was two. And maybe I could remember things even before that. But
as I said earlier, I've just always known that there was this presence around me. So my father and
Jesus and the Holy Spirit were always always with me. Now, of course, there were times in my grief and
my depression and my anxiety. I didn't necessarily always feel that, but see now, because I didn't know
my the word. I didn't know the Bible. I didn't know it. I didn't care to know it, but now
now we can't get it off. Now, He quenches my thirst and He feeds me and He filled me with the Holy
Spirit, like I'm never alone. He's giving me the Holy Ghost and He's filled me with the dynamist
resurrection power and He's placed this authority that I have inside of me. And what He did for me,
I can't begin to tell you the way He freed me. And I'm sure I truly believe, and I truly hope for
every believer that they feel this freedom, that those chains and those shackles have been taken
off of us. And this authority, because that is a game changer for me, knowing that I have the mind
of Christ. And if I identify with that, and if I stay in that and not let my flesh lead me,
because new age and new thought, personal development, psychology, sociology, it's all about your
flesh. And that's the destruction. You refer to someone named Yeshua. I want to clarify who that is,
because people may, well, that sounds a little bit like Jesus is that the same person?
And so, yeah, I wanted to clarify that. It's the Hebrew, the Hebrew name for Jesus.
Yes. So talk about that moment when, or moments when you finally understood it and when you realize
that Yeshua is God and the link between this promised Messiah that would come that was mentioned in
the Old Testament and the Tanakh scriptures, even Torah. Yeah. And the link between that and the New
Testament, where when did you figure that out and how did you figure out that Yeshua is the Messiah?
How much? It started at that beginning walk for me on YouTube University when I was listening to
these Messianics. Not just I was listening to Messianic rabbis and I was listening to other Messianic
Jews sharing their story. And because, as I said earlier, because I had stayed so much in, you know,
Buddhism and New Age and love, it's all based on supernatural. So in my head, as I, you know,
like concluding my findings, because it was like I was doing research, right? It was like, well, yes.
That of course, this makes sense that the Father, with where we were in humanity at the time,
and where His chosen people were. I mean, He chose us for a reason and a purpose.
Then He wanted to set us apart from the other cultures that were in the world and the other nations.
It was like, but of course, He needed. We needed that. We needed to stop listening. Listen, I love
rabbis. Please don't get me wrong when I say this. My niece is a canter. I love the synagogue. I love
the Jewish teachings, but there's something, when you place everything in the authority of man,
there's something very wrong with that. And I think that that's what was taking place. At that time,
He needed to come here on earth in a fleshly form. What's the scripture? I'm going to, I don't want
to ruin it, but, you know, the word was the word and then the word became flesh. And He needed His
word to become flesh so that we could, in a tangible way, because, you know, humans, we need to see
something before we believe it. We can't, you know, walk on faith. We walk on sight, right? And He needed
to show that. And honestly, Jonathan, I feel if I would have been born in that time in history,
because it was called the way back then, I would have been a follower of Yeshua, ha Messiach, Christ, Jesus.
I would have been walking. I don't know if he would have chosen me to be one of his disciples,
maybe not. And that would have been okay. But he would have sat at my table. And I would have just
like Mary and Martha and he would have been coming to my house and he had made so much sense to me.
Now, I'm not the very best at explaining it to others yet. And I think what I need to do is to let
that go and just to allow the Holy Ghost to just to move through me and the explanation when I am
explaining it, say, to a fellow Jew who really is like, yeah, no, there's not such thing as the
Trinity. No, of course, there's a thing as the Trinity. And it's all in the New Testament. I mean,
in the Old Testament and in the Tanakh, it's talked about the Spirit of the Lord. It's talked
about us, we, however it is that they reference it. There's actually a couple in in the Psalms written
by the prophet David. He references Ha Messiach and speaks of Yeshua. And the other one is Isaiah 53.
Isaiah 53 is pretty specific. And then when you read the accounts in John and some of the other
gospels like Matthew and Matthew, Mark and Luke, they validate, they cross validate Isaiah 53. And then
you have another link in the first half of the first chapter of John speaks about the beginning
of Genesis. Exactly. That was mind blowing. David knew about him. Abraham knew about him. Job knew
about him. Isaiah knew about him. And yet now in this time, there are those that are still looking
for someone else. Isn't it funny? Isn't it funny that they'll accept Buddhist principles.
They'll accept all of these other principles as real. Okay? Yeah.
Muhammad, Israel, as this, as real. But for some reason, I don't know if it's the magnitude of Christ.
If I would have brought up Jesus as because I was so ignorant, I remember many years ago,
and it must have before even had children. So it's going to be maybe let's say 35 plus years ago.
There was in a strip plaza not far from my lived, juice for Jesus. I was like, juice for Jesus.
I was one of those ignorant ones. What led you into the path of spiritualism and new age thought?
And what was the moment where the Holy Spirit delivered you out of that and revealed the truth?
I was raised, lived in the world, my family, really basically, or of artists.
Okay. We were born Jews. So very secular. And I was born in the sixties, raised in the seventies,
and walked it up in the eighties. And somewhere in the eighties, I went into selling life insurance,
which introduced me. He's passed on now, but a man named Bob Proctor, who, if anybody had seen that
movie, the secret, he was one of the lead people of that movie. So he has a fellow Trontonian, like myself.
But insurance companies used to use him his termless acceleration coach for their sales teams to work on
the whole limiting thoughts and beliefs and just back up a bit. So when I was a little kid, I always
wanted to be like, happy. I wanted to join the Peace Corps. See where that's going. All right. That's
all of the world. Yeah. But I guess in Christianity, it would have meant I wanted to be a missionary.
Secular. It's the Peace Corps. So I'm hearing these concepts and they just made so much sense to me.
Like, but of course your thoughts are going to lead to the results. But of course my emotions and my
thoughts are going to be connected to what results. And I just kept diving deeper. And
because the super natural, like at one point I was even going to start looking into the Khabala,
the mysticism of Judaism. I guess I didn't because I think it's very demonic, but that's for a whole other
topic a whole other day. But you see, trauma started in my life. When I was 22, I lost my dad. He was
sick for four years. That trauma and that grief was having me because I've always been curious.
I've always been a seeker. I believe I kept was wanting to I was wanting to find God in a way
outside of how he was taught to me through the temple, through the rabbis, through Hebrew school.
I wanted him. I was wanting I felt like I needed him to hold me in that desperation and in that
pain through grief. And because I had other traumas and loss, I kept diving more and more into these
other principles, thinking that that was going to lead me to the final destination of God.
I believe that that's why in the beginning of 2021, coming out of my meditation and hearing a
shem say, this is your year, Andrea, to unlearn. I used to think I was this really bad manifestor,
because I'd had things on my vision board and it wasn't happening. So I thought there had to be
something wrong with me. Oh my God, my vibration must be off or I'm not aligning properly to my desires.
No, the father let me go so far and then he was like, yeah, it's okay. You've gone far enough
and now it's time. And I instantly, as I said, I started to do a little bit of my research just
needing to understand. So my friend was very helpful. She said, and you really have to understand your
Jewish roots. I'm like, please, like, like enough already. But when I started to hear the same story
from my people regarding what it was like in their home, if they talked about Jesus, that made sense.
And because I used to, I would used to call it my energy centers when I go into meditation,
because I'd set an intention like, love, I knew God was love. I want to vibrate it at that frequency.
And those ways centers would be like, it would be like electrical currents on fire in my body.
So I knew something. So now when I found out I didn't quite get the Holy Ghost situation, that
took me a bit of time. Like, who's this Holy Ghost? Like, oh, I'm only this person.
Like, well, I'm not, but I just allowed myself to be. I really just, I was so willing with zero resistance
and just allowed it because I made a promise. When I heard those words that this is your year-to-end
learn, I promised God, I will unlearn whatever it is you want me to unlearn. And as much time and as
much focus as I ever gave to those other principles that you're wanting to remove from me, I will
10 exit, 20 exit for the amount whatever it is that you're wanting me to learn. And that truly is
what I've been doing. Hence, I'm here today on a Christian radio channel talking about Christ.
Would you offer a prayer for dads or sons or daughters who are listening now who are on their own
journey or their own struggle trying to find their identity in purpose? Heavenly Father, Holy Spirit,
Lord Jesus, we come together today, Jonathan and myself as I'm here as you've blessed me
to be able to share my testimony of you and the freedom in which I now walk in and the liberty
and the freedom that I feel surging through my blood, surging through my brain. I ask for this same
freedom, the same blessings that you've blessed upon me for anybody that's listening to this,
to feel that, to know you, to have a coming to Jesus moment. Get them the way you got me in your loving,
loving way because Father, you are so good and you are so loving. You allowed your son
to die in the most brutal, horrific way, Christ, which you did for us, which you've done for this world,
and you've placed the Holy Spirit in us. This is what I ask for you to bless the fathers
so that they can walk because men have a hard Father. You know that. And mothers and the women
and children in today, in Christ Jesus, mighty holy, majestic name, amen. Amen. Thank you so much
for that prayer, Andrea. Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. It's been a pleasure
having you. Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program
or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFotherhoodChallenge.com
[Music]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
The previous episode was part 1 of my conversation with Rebekah Wen as she shared her testimony of finding identity and purpose. This episode is part 2 of Rebekah's story. She reveals not only how she found her identity and purpose but how you can find yours too.
Here are some helpful books from this episode:
The Bondage Breaker: https://www.amazon.com/Bondage-Breaker-Neil-T-Anderson/dp/0736918140?fbclid=IwY2xjawGsYkdleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHcPkI8FtEzjF-9riwx8WzK7QaKJ1bStRy1_-8uuQjC7bEikcDE2tIM4bTA_aem_Xgu6WbZSX9WSL9wGiLHqCQ
Your Spiritual Toolbox: https://www.amazon.com/Your-Spiritual-Toolbox-Sit-Down-Christian-ebook/dp/B01KW3LRWE
Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge
Transcription - From Torment to Identity and Purpose
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important
fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone!
Thank you so much for joining me. We are continuing part two of my conversation with Rebecca
Wynn as she shares her testimony of how she found her identity in purpose. If you missed part one of
her story, you can go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. And if you go to
the last episode, you'll see it label as part one, you can hear the first part of our testimony.
Now we're going to go ahead and continue with part two of her testimony.
So as I was sitting there, I just thought to myself, "God doesn't want broken people like me."
And I heard an audible voice say, "I came for the broken." And I felt these huge warm arms
wrap around me. And I felt the ground in this concrete basement and I cried. And I felt,
I felt a father holding me for the first time. And I knew that God was there with me. And that he
had come for me on that every single speck of my brokenness could be healed by him. And in that moment,
I decided that I had to become a Christian. I needed this comfort. I never felt anything like that
before. I was so excited. I wanted to tell everybody all about it. You know, I ran upstairs and I told
my mom, "Mom, guess what? I'm going to be a Christian now." And she was kind of like,
"Yeah, great." But she didn't have the reaction I expected. And I wish that I could say everything
after that just immediately got better, but it did not.
Somethings did. So I'd had, for those 13 years, as I mentioned at the very beginning,
I had been sexually and physically abused by a female relative almost immediately after I
became a Christian that the sexual abuse, the verbal abuse completely stopped. It was, for me,
a hugely eye-opening moment because I thought, "I understood for the first time that there's
something really wrong with me. And I need some kind of deliverance from this. I understood
the first time that these entities that were attacking me were demonic and that they had a purpose
when they were coming. But I had no idea how to deal with it. I didn't know what an event meant.
And I still hadn't told anybody about any of them. My, my mother remarried when I was seven.
And the man that she married was a very stable, good man who had a good job and took good care of us
and enabled her to be a stay at home mom so that she could homeschool us. And by all accounts,
he was a good, solid man. But he was not emotionally available. He was not interested in,
in really being a dad to other people's kids. And so I, he would work most of the time and then,
you know, maybe we'd have some kind of a philosophical conversation or something, but he wasn't
really interested in discussing God. He was much more interested in discussing science and mathematics
and philosophy. And yet there was, there was a moment that had a major impact on me.
There was one day where my mother was just tired of it, you know, and she was just,
she was test tired. And at the same time, also, as I mentioned, I have been having anorexia
and it had progressed to the point where, where I had, I would stop eating and I was noticeably
underweight for my age. My mother would, every single meal she would have to trick me into eating.
And she would do that because she knew that I had such a strong feeling of guilt about the idea
of making anything else feel as worthless as I felt because I felt I was trash. I didn't want
anything else to feel that way. I don't want to be the cause of anyone else or anything else
to feel that kind of suffering. And by this point, I was, I was hoarding. I mean, I had, I wouldn't
even throw away trash. I would have hundreds of candy wrappers and stuff around my room is stacked
up and everything, which I know sounds strange for anorexic, but whatever. But I would have, I wouldn't
throw away anything because I didn't want it to feel like trash, even if it was trash. I couldn't stand
the idea of acknowledging that something didn't have any more value. I had to prove it had value because
if it didn't have value, then maybe I don't have value. So I would cling to everything. And so my mother
figured that out and they, she had realized that my hoarding was because of this, because of this
deep feelings in me. And so she would get me to eat by guilt tripping me. So she would use this cute,
tiny little voice, you know, and she would, she would literally take one bite of like vegetables or
something and she would be like, Oh, please eat me. If you don't eat me, I'll be so sad. You know, she
would make it like this, this thing that I, if I didn't eat this food, I was making it, I was making
it miserable. I was, I was causing it the same harm that been caused to me on some level. And that
was the only way she could get me to really eat. And so she was doing this every single day and she was
tired. And one day she, she talked to my stepdad and he came over to me and and I'm just, he was just,
he sat down on the floor next to me and I was not even making eye contact. I'm just saying they're
doing my homework pretending, you know, to be the kind of daughter they wanted. And he was trying to
talk to me about it, about what was going on. And I just told him like, Look, I don't know why you're
talking to me. You don't love me. I just remember glancing overhead him because he didn't say anything.
And I glanced over at him and I saw that he was crying. And I felt such immense guilt, you know,
when you make your dad cry like that, such immense guilt. And all he said was, I'm so sorry, you feel
that way. And if that for me was a major turning point because I realized, I really realized that I should,
I want to be able to feel that human love and connection and to recognize it and to live in it,
like they think they do, like my family does. And I couldn't. So it was a major turning point for me.
So a few months after that, I'm a, I'm a baby Christian. I'm super excited. I'm still living my
goth life, you know, all black from head to toe. But even though I, I had gone through this and I was
still continuing to try to cling to my, to my faith and to grow as a little baby Christian, the spiritual
attacks that I was undergoing just became more and more intense and they became constant
anxiety to the point that I would create rituals that had to be completed throughout the day.
Or I had a real fear that my family was going to die. These rituals start off as something really
simple, like, oh, before, you know, before my parents leave the house, they absolutely had to give me
a hug and say goodbye because I was afraid that the last thing we would say before they died would
be something terrible. So we had to leave on good footing, right? It had to be a hug and we had to say
specific phrases. And right before I went to bed, we had to have a hug and we had to say specific
phrases and it grew over time to the point where before I would go to bed, there would be like a five-minute
speech, a five-minute dialogue that my parents and I would have to say every single night perfectly.
If they'd messed up, if I messed up, we had to start over because I was so aptly sure that something
catastrophic would happen if we didn't do these rituals. And so they became more and more,
they became larger and more repetitive and more all-consuming as time went on. My sleeping habits and
everything, they just became more difficult because I, even though I was taking these precautions,
you know, with arranging of the bed and the room and the lights and everything, it wasn't helping at
all. And these entities were becoming more and more aggressive. And I was to a point where I could see
them all the time. So I could see, I mean, I could just be walking around outside and see them,
you know, hanging on somebody's shoulder or something. This idea of like, oh, if I look at a mirror,
the image, one more of it began to become, if I just look at your face, it's going to more. So I couldn't
even look at my own family without constantly seeing these things that would say and do whatever
they wanted. I, because I'm also still having these out-of-body experiences, they started to become
part of just every day thought for me where I could just be having a pleasant conversation like, oh,
yeah, I'd really love to have mac and cheese for dinner. And what I would be seeing as I'm saying
that would be myself holding a knife and cutting their throat and then bleeding everywhere. Like
horrible, horrible things that I had no actual desire to do, but I would be seeing these visions
all the time. And they became more and more graphic and more violent and more consistent.
And at the same time, these entities would come into my bed. So they would climb under the blankets with
me and they would just, they would start to hurt me. I would have cuts and bruises. And I got to a point
where I even started to disassociate from my own body. And I believe that's because I was having
so many of these out-of-body experiences. I started to disassociate from my own body and it began
with my right arm. I would start to, if I looked at it or thought about it, even just pondering
something else, but I would just kind of stare at my arm, my arm would begin to sort of become numb
and heavy. And I would have this knowledge that I was not in control of it. And it could move by
itself. And so I would see my arm move even though I wasn't telling it to. And I really started to become
afraid of it. And it got to the point where I really felt like it was going to spread and take over
my whole body. But before it could even do that, it started to cause me real physical harm, like trying
to strangle me and leave marks. It would leave marks on my neck because for these actions or scratch
marks across my whole chest and everything. And I wouldn't do this to myself. I'd never been a person
to nest their self-harm. But I just, I was so, so sure that they were gaining control of my body
as time went on. That I started to look into how I could have my arm surgically removed before it
would spread to the rest of me. So that leads me into being 16 years old. And my mother at this point
has noticed that these things are something is seriously wrong. And she has come across a book called
The Bondage Breaker. At that time, you know, every morning before we start our homeschool routine,
she's reading passages, a scripture, and praying with us. And she decides like,
enough Elizabeth Elliott, let's try this. And so she, I love Elizabeth Elliott, by the way, but she,
she sits down and she's like, okay, girls, I don't know if this is going to work. Like, I don't know what
you guys will think of this. It's kind of, we've never really talked about demons and stuff. But, you know,
let's just read it. Let's just read it and see what happens. The first day she read it, I remember
having some kind of a feeling that was just like, no, don't listen to what she say. Don't just
don't listen, don't listen. But I did pay attention. And this book is amazing because it actually gives
you specific prayers that you can say word for word. And this book, it is about spiritual warfare.
It is about fighting the enemy and the idea that you could, for me at that time, the idea that I
could have power and could, could stop what was happening to me was like, was beautiful. It was
incredible. And I just latched onto it. So I memorized one of the prayers from that book. That was the
first time I actually sat down. I told my mom, like, mom, I'm seeing things at night. Where, what does
it look say about that? And so I memorized a prayer. And I thought, okay, next time these things happen,
next time they come, I'm going to, I'm going to say it, right? So that night, I go to bed and I wake
up and at that day, it was some kind of like, there were like three of them. It was like a, I sort of
a black shadowy man. And then some kind of like an alligator thing that was like floating next to my bed.
And there was, I want to say almost a woman like trying to play with my hair. And I wouldn't,
I didn't want to look over at her because she had a really disturbing face. But so they came and I
remember, thanks to myself, okay, you, you got to fight, you have to fight. Like this is your chance.
Do it. And it was one of them physically most difficult things I've ever done in my life just to
open my mouth and speak. It was like my mouth was wired shut. I couldn't, I mean, I was just
clenching my teeth, just trying as hard as I could to get my mouth open and say the prayer as
best as I could remember. And I did. And you know what? They went away. They literally vanished. And I was
like, what this works? This can work. There was a solution this whole time. I was so excited.
The next morning, I was like, mom, you're not going to believe this. You're not going to believe
what happened. I need to tell all my friends, like I just dove into the book. I even brought friends
over and I was like, you need an exorcism too. And so I'm just diving right into it. And because for me,
it was incredible. What happened? I started praying this every time I had a vision every time they
came to me every time I even felt their presence before I could even see them. I would start praying.
And I had to pray it out loud. It didn't work if I prayed it in my head. I had to pray it out loud.
So I would start praying. And they would leave every single time they would leave. And the result was that
I completely, I mean, I regained control of my hands. I stopped having nightmares. I was able to
sleep on my back for the first time in almost a decade. Like I'd always slept on one side. And it couldn't
move. Now I could sleep in other positions. I could look in people's faces again. I couldn't even look
in like look in a mirror, you know? That took a really long time though. But I could do these normal
things like they were just gone. And the out of body experiences disappeared as well. I haven't had
any of those since that time. So here I am. I've been amazingly healed. I know 100% is through the
power of God. I know that it's through Jesus Christ. And through the identity that they have given me
as a daughter of the king. Because the way these prayers work is that you claim your identity.
I am a daughter of the Lord God Almighty. And you cannot touch me. You claim your identity. And you say
on the authority of my father, you cannot be here. There's nothing to do with my grace, my goodness,
nothing. It is all his power. And because it's all his power, they have to leave right away. And so
that gave me this idea that I needed to consider my identity was I really living like God's daughter.
Not my mother, my mother's daughter, not my father's daughter was a living like God's daughter. But with
my father, I mean, he actively encouraged me to dress in, you know, to dress as a slut, to wear tiny,
tiny outfits whenever we went out, you know? But the time I was in my teens, you know, he would, he
would use my debit card and his ID to go, to go buy alcohol for us. And every minute of time that I
spent with him was centered around playing, was centered around around D&D or witchcraft or,
or these kinds of other things, nothing was centered around right here, right now. Who are we? Our
relationship, this world, what's actually happening? Everything was just play and feel good. And so I had
this complete disconnect between these two people because my father did not want a good little Christian
girl. He was very happy to have a teenager who was open about her pornography addiction and loved
drinking alcohol and all this stuff. Whereas my mother, she needed a good little Christian girl.
So I had to reconcile this, these two different people that took a long time. But I was able to do it
because my foundation was no longer making my mom and dad happy. It was what is my God want? The
person who's saving me. And I think that's a core of of my life. If I could take this and make it a
message for any, any parents, protect your kids. If you see something that's strange, if they're
having a lot of nightmares, if you see them acting in a strange way, don't avoid conflict, don't
try to sweep it under the rug. Like after I was healed and I started opening up to family members
about what I had been through, the number one reaction I got was, oh, well, we knew there was
something wrong with you, but we didn't think we could say anything. It blows my mind because I was
a child. What was I going to do if you said something? I don't know, maybe rethink my life, you know,
where, where was the backlash? Where was the potential for them to have problems? But because nobody
spoke anything, I had no protection from any of the things that I went through. I had zero protection
in that way. So if I could say anything to, to parents is that protect your kids, not just from
these physical things, but be involved in the things like what they're scared of, the nightmares
and these things protect them from those. I had a significant healing, but I wasn't really truly
born again until a few years later. I never went to a church because I had such bad experiences with
other believers when I was young. And even though I was healed and everything, I was still 100%
of God, then I was very happy to maintain that image. It wasn't until I was an adult in about 21
years old, terrible situation happened and the family sort of exploded. And in that time, I ended up
homeless and it ended up by myself. And I only had God to cling to every single day, all day long, I would
just tell myself, God is love, God is mercy, God is love, God is mercy, God is love, God is mercy.
And that was how I got through that time. But because I clung to the Lord so much, I realized,
I literally just wanted to be sequestered. I wanted to become a nun. And my grandmother said,
why don't you try a missionary instead? And so I was learning Russian at the time. And so my
grandmother said, well, why don't you try and go to school? You know, there's this missionary
school in Russia. Why don't you go there and check it out? And so without thinking about it, I was like,
yeah, I'd love to be in Russian, everything and be closer to God. Sure, let's do it. So I signed up
and everything. And then when I'm on the plane, I had a realization that I was literally going to live
with other Christians. And I don't think hate would be too strong of a word. I hated being around
Christians because of my past experiences. And I also hated kids up to this point. And the reason
I hated kids was because I was still so dirty from all the things that had happened previously.
I still believed and lived in the enemy's lies that I was a creature of shame and that I was filthy.
And I did not want to get my problems. I didn't want it to spread to any kids. And so I just decided
that they were terrible. And I convinced myself to stay as far away from children as possible
because I did not want my filth to spread to them. So here I am on the plane on the way to Russia.
And I suddenly have this realization, I'm going to go in live with Christians. And I panicked.
I was like, I'm going to stay on this plane because Moscow is just a stopover. Then it's going to
Malaysia. I'm just going to get off on Malaysia and deal with everything then. Call everybody and
be like, hey, I'm here now. You know, I'm like, run away. And but then as we landed in Moscow, they said,
everybody has to get off and we're going to bring on the search dogs. Well, I was like, okay,
all right, I will get off. I don't want to deal with any dogs. So I get off and they pick me up.
We go to the house and we open the door. And what's the first thing I see is a baby. So now I'm
surrounded by Christians and babies. And then they lead me up to my bedroom. And what do I see?
My roommate, she's just, I just, hi, you know, she's just this preppy blonde hair, blue-eyed,
little valley girl. And I'm like, oh, Lord, why do you torment me? Why would you do this to me?
Every, this is going to be the worst mistake I've ever made in my life. What is happening?
And so I tell them, I tell everybody like, yes, I'm so tired. I just need to go to bed. So everybody leaves
except for my one German roommate. And she's sitting there and I'm laying down my bed and she says,
you know, I am so glad you are here because before you were not. And now we are complete. And my heart
completely broke. And the Lord spoke to me audibly. I brought you here to heal you. Let me do it. And I
said, okay, my heart is yours. This is the first time I've been wanted. Do your will. And what he did,
I would became truly born again in Russia a couple months later. We were going through a program
where every week we would have teachers teach us about a different topic. And that particular week,
we were learning about God as a father. I always, I'd always known about Jesus and, you know,
the great warrior and loving, you know, typical church things. But I'd never thought about God as an
actual father who actually loved me. And so during that week, the culmination of that week was for us to
to have a public confession where we would confess everything that had been done to us. We would name
names, list deeds, and we would confess everything that we had done. And throughout the whole week,
the Lord was telling me, this is your chance. You've got a lot to say. At the end of the week, that
morning, because this was a mixed group, there were adults and children. I went to the leader of the group
and I said, you know, I feel like I have something to say, but I feel like it's a really heavy topic. And
I don't know if it's appropriate to talk about in front of the kids. And up to this point, I literally,
I had not thought about what I would actually say. I didn't know. I just knew I had to say something,
but I didn't know what it was. And I had never thought about what came out of my mouth because she
asked me what you want to talk about. And I'd never thought these words or made this sentence
ever in my life. But I looked her dead in the eyes and I said, I was physically, emotionally,
and sexually abused for the first 13 years of my life. And that to me was like, I was? Where did that
come from? I never thought about it ever. And she said, bring it on. Let's do it. That day, I think I
was the third person to talk. I publicly confessed what was done to me and what I'd been done. It took
hours because I realized as I was going through names, I couldn't even remember all the names of the
people who had, quite sexually assaulted me. I could see faces and things, but I couldn't even remember
the names. And it took hours and of just sobbing and telling it. And here I'm sitting in front of a
room of 20, 30 people and they're all just listening in silence and asking me these patient questions
and praying the whole time. And by the time I finished, I can say that I had been completely,
completely washed clean. White as snow. Everything that had any power of shame over my life was in public
and it was forgiven. And I was completely free. And that afternoon, as they were making dinner and
I'm sitting there doing some homework in the living room. Some of the children of the households
are playing there. And for the first time in my life, without even thinking about it, even as a child,
I didn't play. I didn't play with other kids. I only spent time with adults as much as I could.
But for the first time in my life, I put down my pencil in my homework and I played with them.
And I can't express how beautiful that freedom was to finally be, to truly be free with nothing.
No shame, nothing held over me. If you ever have a chance to do a public confession, I have
fully encouraged it because that was what broke the final curses over my life and gave me
a stability in who I am. And that the Lord would patiently and carefully take me to a place
where he would dig out every piece of junk that had been put onto me so that I could be free.
So I could fly above everything. I think the last step in my completely being free was I realized that
when we went to that Mayan temple when I was a very young child, whatever clung to me came in
through an open door. In the deliverance ministry, I figured out exactly what entity it was. And I
could tell it to leave by name. And that was the moment when I really lost a lot of fear for it.
You're not so spooky if you got a name and I can just be like, hey, dude, go. Not that they're not
powerful, but that they're limited. They're limited. And that was something that I happened really
recently because for many years, these entities hadn't bothered me, but they'd started to come back
with my daughter, with my daughter. And she started to have nightmares and to say things that little
tiny toddlers should not say. And so I realized that I had to learn how to fight for her. I had to
learn how to fight as her legal guardian on a spiritual level. So that's why I went into,
went back into this and said, okay, what is it? What entity is clinging to me that could potentially
be affecting her or could still be clinging to me? And when we identified it and went through and
prayed it away as the saying goes, I'm happy to say that my daughter did stop having nightmares.
That is my story in a nutshell. So I would say to fathers, base your identity in the eternal
things. Build yourself onto that. And for your children, encourage them. Bring them along to do
the same, especially for young kids or teenagers, especially with this era of social media.
There are so many influences, so many things that seem so important and so amazing and so
life changing and so necessary. So for your children's sake, redirect their interests. Remove those
influences, redirect their interests and their concept of strength on the same thing the
rocket pages. If they can stay on that, they will stay with you. Rebecca, thank you so much for
coming on to Father and Challenge and sharing your testimony with us. Thank you again for having me.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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My guest in part 1 of this episode is Rebekah Wen. Rebekah will share her story and testimony of growing up disconnected from her identity and purpose, how she found it and how you can find yours too. This is one you’re not going to want to miss.
Part 2 of this story can be heard in the next episode.
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Transcription - From Torment to Identity and Purpose (part 1)
Today I have a guest who will share her story and testimony of how she found her identity
in purpose and how you can find yours too.
This is one you're not going to want to miss, so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
Rebecca Wynn is here with me to share her story of how she grew up disconnected from
her identity and life purpose and how she found it.
This is going to be a powerful story, so buckle up.
Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you so much for having me.
Rebecca, let's start from the very beginning.
What is your story of how you found your identity in purpose?
Well my story actually begins back before World War II in the early 1930s, even before
then, on my father's side of the family where Ashkenazi Jews, and so sometime in the early
like first 1000 years BC, my family was taken from Israel and brought up to Germany into
the modern day Rhine River, that area, at Suiustis lives, and over hundreds of years they
had built a community, and my family, they were the rabbi and the religious leaders in
the community.
In that time my family were, they were serving the Lord.
And there are records like obituaries that were written for my great-great-grandmother,
she passed away in 1933, and there are obituaries that were written by the German population
of the city where they lived.
And those obituaries paint her in a very loving way.
She was a powerful woman of prayer who was known for being loving and kind and nurturing
to absolutely anybody who came to her, which is, she had no problem reaching out to them
regardless of their faith.
And so this was an obituary that was written by the German population, not by the Jewish
population in that city.
The next account of my family is from the Crystal Night, and it's an account of my relatives
being dragged out into the streets and beaten as their house was burnt down.
The synagogue was burnt down, the cemetery was destroyed.
That was obviously Crystal Night, so a few years after that, by 1942, all of the people
in my family, my father's bloodline, who were 50 years old and younger, they had fled
Europe.
They left everyone who was 50 years old and older in Germany.
And the result was that all of the elderly people in my family were killed in camps.
And since that time in my father's bloodline, absolutely nobody has been a believer in
Christ or practicing Judaism.
He has been financially successful or physically healthy.
And I believe very strongly that their choice to abandon the elderly at that time brought
some kind of a curse on our family that we no longer protect, took some kind of protection
away from us on a generational curse level.
And that filtered down to me many years later.
So my parents divorced as an infant.
I was five months old when they had finalized their divorce.
The reason that they divorced is because there were a lot of reasons, but domestic violence
was the main one.
So I spent my first year of life growing up in a shelter for battered women with my mother
and siblings.
So from a very early age, my mother was very religious.
She was a believer.
She clung to the Lord through all of these situations, but my father was a hardened atheist.
And so I grew up seeing these polar opposite identities, these polar opposite worldviews.
And my mother was a Republican.
My father was a liberal.
I was just like, they had nothing in common.
So I grew up, I learned very quickly that I had to be a different person when I was with
my mother versus when I was with my father.
So with my father, I grew up hearing Bible stories, listening to adventures in honesty,
praying before we go to bed, before we eat all these kinds of things with my father.
If he saw us praying, he would beat us.
If we had anything Christian, the Bible or anything that we brought to his house, he
would destroy it.
And at his house, we were surrounded with new age things, with witchcraft, with a lot of things
that were even, a lot of D and D and things that were basically soft core pornography.
When you get into those like artwork and everything, that's out of the world, a lot of anime
and things like this.
And then as we got older, that progressed into things like more explicit things like Austin
Powers and those movies he thought they were the best means ever.
I remember watching them when I was knee high to a grasshopper.
For me, this divide created a feeling of constant grief and anger.
And from a very early age, I started to have some very strange things happening from a very
early age, even though I was not sexually assaulted or anything as a very young child.
But from a very early age, I had a very keen awareness of all things sexual and how all of it
was interconnected and worked and everything.
And I believe that I was given that awareness by spiritual forces because from a very early
age, I was tormented by spiritual forces almost every time I went to sleep.
I would have incredibly vivid and violence and disturbing dreams almost every single night.
So by the age of four, I basically knew everything that I know as an adult.
I've gained no new knowledge since that time, even though I'm now married with children.
So the reason I bring that up is to set the stage to say that I was just a very, there was
something wrong from a very, very young age.
But no one in my family clued in on that.
My father definitely, he thought there was nothing strange about this at all.
And my mother, she had had her own emotional things happening and she really wasn't able
to recognize these kinds of problems, even though she was praying she wasn't able to focus
on them.
So by the time that I was five years old, I had developed constant migraines.
I would have migraines every single day.
And I would, I would just hide whenever I had them.
I never told anybody that I was in pain.
I never asked for medicine or anything.
I would, I would just hide under tables or any dark places and try to listen to quiet things.
And it wasn't until we visited a distant relative that noticed my behavior.
She was a psychologist and she noticed my behavior and she thought that's a little weird.
And so she was the first person to ask me why are you, why do you hide in dark places all
the time?
And so, you know, I told her that and that's how my parents found out that I was even having
these problems.
And the reason I bring that up is to show that for some reason by that age, I had decided
that I could not be a burden to my parents.
Even though I was in debilitating pain, I would still not go and tell them that there was
anything wrong because I didn't want to be an emotional burden.
I didn't want to be a burden to them at all.
Fast forward a few months after that time, my, my maternal grandmother was a missionary
in Guatemala.
And at some point in time, we went down to visit her and we went to a Mayan temple and something
happened at that temple.
There was some kind of a spiritual entity that I would say latched on to me because from
that point on, I had much more severe nightmares.
I became, at that point, I became afraid of the dark.
I became, I began to see things more than just like when you're asleep.
I began to see things like shapes and apparitions and shadows and tall men and things and even
when I was awake if the lights were even dim, I would begin to see these strange, strange
shapes and then even during the daytime.
And something within me said, this is not normal, but you can't tell anybody.
So I never did.
I think on some subconscious level, I knew that something was wrong.
And so I remember very distinctly, my mother remarried when I was seven years old and that
was sort of the end of my like parent trap dreams.
If you remember the movie parent trap for these two children, trick their parents into getting
remarried.
My older sister and I had always entertained those illusions with our parents.
And so when they had both remarried by that point, that was the end of that dream and
that really pushed me into a place of anger and depression because I realized I would never
have a complete family.
At the same time, around that age, the series, the movie, the left behind series came out and
my mother wanting to be a strong believer in teachers and truth, she showed it to me.
And I of course had a lot of questions about this movie.
And one of the things that I knew was that my father was not a believer and that my mother
was.
And that in this movie, the believers got to go to heaven and the non-believers had to
suffer and go to hell.
And so I remember very distinctly asking my mother, does that mean that my father, my dad,
would go to hell?
And she said, yes.
And my immediate reaction to that was to completely reject God and faith and anything to do with
him because I did not want anything to do with this God who would divide my family and
send my father to hell.
I didn't want anything to do with that.
And so I started going into a downward spiral.
About that time I started developing anorexia.
While I would starve myself, I would weigh myself or measure myself with my mom's measuring
tapes.
And if I was too big, then I would stop eating for a few days until I got to the size that
I wanted to be.
Shortly after that, I started to have out of body experiences where I would literally be
laying down or relaxing or something.
And I would leave my body and I would see my body on the bed or wherever I was, but I would
not be there.
I would be out flying around and I could look around my house and see what other people were
doing and things like that.
And so I started to have just have these experiences.
I never sought after it.
I never thought about what it was.
I just thought it was sort of a cool thing I could do.
After those started, my dreams started to become significantly worse.
And they started to become more physical where I could actually physically interact with
these entities or they could physically interact with the world around me.
They could do things like move things around my room, like move things off my bed.
And so I became very paranoid about how to protect myself from them and keep my, I'd never
told my parents.
They just thought I was a really weird little kid who was maybe OCD or something because
I had, I would arrange the room in very specific ways so that I could keep myself safe.
So I would put my bed in a corner of the room and I would line both sides where my bed
met the wall with blankets or pillows or things to create a barrier that completely blocked
that gap between the bed and the wall.
And then my blankets had to be all tucked in and then the lights had to be just exactly
the right way only specific lights and only the door, the doors had to be in exactly the
right position.
Some doors could be open but some doors must be closed but some doors had to be like part
way open.
So I had these really specific requirements based on where I had seen entities or what they
had touched or moved or how the clothes they had gotten to me.
And so I trained myself not to move in my sleep to always lay on my side with my back against
the wall so that I could always see everything that was in front of me or that I could see
the entire room at the drop of a hat.
So that started when I was about nine years old.
If I go back to this, this question, the sexual things that were happening at that time,
although it's an uncomfortable subject, I think it's something people need to realize is
I from a young age was being abused by a female relative and growing up when I would have
sleepovers or something with my friends.
Every single one of them would become sexual until I had my first friend at about 12 years
old and she was the first one that I ever had where nothing sexual ever happened between
us.
And so at this age of like nine, this was just the world that I lived in where I thought
everybody lived with these constant tears and I thought having sexual relationships with
literally anybody who was close enough in proximity without adults supervision was totally normal.
And on some level, I knew that there was something wrong with that because I never wanted to
tell adults about it and I knew that I knew that it was something I shouldn't tell but
it's not like anybody told me you can't talk about this.
It was just something that I knew instinctively I couldn't tell anybody.
But I wanted to point out that I was homeschooled so I was under adult supervision almost all
the time and I was still having these things happen and nobody knew they just thought that
I was mentally there was something mentally wrong.
Nobody bothered to ask about it or check about it.
Sometime after about I would say about 10, 11 years old or something, my friends and I
wanted to play the game Bloody Mary and I would urge any parents not to let their children
play around with things that are summoning spirits in any context.
After playing the game of Bloody Mary, although I would nothing necessarily happened during the
experience, after that time I began to notice that faces did start to change when I would
look in the mirror or at pictures, the faces would just change and so I stopped looking at
mirrors even to look at my own face.
Especially the change would always start in the eyes so they would start to become more
and more black and it would be like these large black, I guess almost like a portal or something
of vortex was opening and it would grow from the eyes, it would grow across the face and
the mouth would become like the lips would become thin and dead and start pulling back and
start opening up and I knew on some level that if I ever let the whole face change whatever
it was would either come in or I would pull me in or something like that.
But this started to happen every single time I would look in a mirror so I stopped looking
at mirrors at all. If I had to look in a mirror or if I had to look at someone I learned to
never look above their nose so I would look for nose and mouth down and that would be the
closest I could get to eye contact.
So obviously I was deeply troubled and then I finally hit my pre-teens and all those
craze or hormones and everything kicked in and one thing that I'm sure now if I had been
taken a specialist or something I would have been diagnosed as being on this spectrum at
some point because by the time I was in my teens I had never been a very emotional girl.
I've never been interested in the same thing other women were.
I was always a tomboy, I was always interested in self-discipline and self-control to the
point where as a child if I felt like I was going to lose my temper I would grab my ears
and I would pinch my ears with my fingernails until the pain and then I would focus on
the pain until it overruled the emotion so that I could control myself in the situation.
So I started doing that as a child and as I grew up I just became more and more obsessed
with this idea of self-control and because I became more obsessed with that I became more
I had less understanding towards people who did not have emotional self-control namely
the other teenage girls in my family and even my mother.
By this point I had really seen a difference in the way that men and women were treated and
I saw men as being very strong and nobody would treat men the way I was treated because if
I could back up a little bit that feeling of grief only grew with time and it became so
intense I defined myself as trash and disposable and meaningless and worthless and unloved
and despite my mother's best efforts that only grew with time and so as I grew older and
older I began to define myself more and more as this trash but I decided at some point
that I did not want to bring more pain into the world than was already here and so I couldn't
stand the idea of making other things feel like trash and so I wanted to have a feeling
of control over myself and over my surroundings and the strength like you couldn't hurt me
so that all the things people said and did that we're hurting me would bounce off and
I viewed masculinity as armor and so I decided as a pre-teen that I wanted to become a man
and I even started saving up money for a sex change which is shocking to me because at
that age when I was that age nobody talked about transgender I'd never heard of it you know
it wasn't it wasn't a topic no one talked about these kinds of things at all but somehow
I got it in my mind that it must be possible and I wanted to achieve it so I started saving
my birthday money to become a man so that I could protect myself and have that self control
and have that armor and have some kind of self value but all of these insecurities and
these fears and this constant feeling of grief it just grew and combined that with pure
prepubescent hormones and everything I slipped into a very deep depression and after about
a year or so of that I decided that I couldn't handle it anymore and so one day I decided
to make a deal with the devil and I literally prayed something long lines of you know I'll
say I'll give you my soul if you make me stop hurting and it was like instantaneous I had
no feelings just completely emotionally numb I wasn't happy I wasn't sad I could feel
anger but that was about it and I went on like that for about a year or so but I knew because
when you're completely emotionally numb and then your relatives or something they do something
that should be funny or should make you happy you still have to put on a face you still
feel like you're obligated to put on a face and show them you don't want to walk around
like a robot all day right yes so I tried very hard to put on this act like I could feel
something but I had been I couldn't anymore and so I tried to at some point I sort of realized
I wanted to be able to connect and I couldn't and so I tried to fill that void in other ways
and so I dove headfirst into pornography and this was the beginning times of YouTube and
everything but I found I would just go to the public library because remember I was homeschooled
I didn't have my own cell phone or access to internet but I would just go to the public
library and find things on the shelves there or you know just go to YouTube or like fan fiction
websites or whatever and I would find however much I wanted to my heart's content and even
though our computer was in is in a public part of the house it nothing deterred me it wasn't
important I could find ways to get around it to be creative so I started to dive into that
because I wanted to have some sort of sensations or emotions or something and this at this time
these entities that were attacking me they became more more violent and much more involved
in sort of my fantasies and things so that everything just became more and more and more twisted
I don't want to go into too much detail about that but there came a point where I knew that
that if I didn't if I didn't get some kind of control over the things that I was imagining
or the things that they were teaching me somebody was going to end up seriously hurt and I began
to become exhausted because I was trying to on some level I think my mother's prayers were trying
to lead me to the light because on some level even though at this point I was a practicing
satanist I completely rejected everything to do with my mother's faith I was a kind of kid
that if my mom took me to a church I would carve pentagrams into the bibles and write you know write
expletives' and you know I was the kind of kid that the other good little Christian kids would
all run away from and their parents would in their little homeschool community the other parents
would see my see me and see my mom and say well whose whose kid is that like what's around
with them what are they you know what are they what how are they abusing her you know this kind
of thing but my mother was leading us every morning in worship and prayer she was every
single day praying for us and it was just I think that's what kept me from completely falling off the edge
so at about 13 years old my mother's prayers really bore fruit I think there was a concert in town
a large Christian concert that I was boycotting and I was shaming anybody who went and one of my best
friends was forced to go by her mother and she came back saying oh man was amazing there was this
amazing band that's playing on the radio and you really I liked their music because they were playing
on secular radios and they were like this heavy metal band and I loved it and she was like yeah I got
one of their CDs here you can borrow it and so here I am I'm sitting down doing my homework and
I am in a cold basement it's the middle of winter it's snowing outside like this is a cold
room and it's concrete floors you know like it's a cold little space and I'm sitting there doing my
homework I'm listening to this music and I suddenly had this realization that they were talking
about God and I thought no they're not people like me cannot talk about God like and so I picked up
the CD cover and I looked at them and they were dressed in black and I was dressed in black and you
know they had they had their scars their scars were obvious I was like well so are mine and then I
thought what are they doing talking about God like God doesn't want broken people like me.
This concludes part one of my conversation with Rebecca Wins that she tells her testimony.
We're going to continue this testimony into part two in the next episode.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us
listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this episode Jennifer Weiss shares her story and life's journey of searching for her identity and purpose. Not only does she reveal how she found it, but also how you can too.
Jennifer Weiss is the founder of The Creative Christian, a ministry that brings biblical truth to the entertainment industry while coaching and mentoring artist in their craft to do the same. You can learn more about The Christian Creative at:
https://www.creativechristian.online/
Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge
Transcript - A Daughter Finds Identity and Purpose
You're going to hear a testimony of a woman who spent her whole life searching for her identity and purpose.
How she found it and how you can too, and she'll join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere, to take great pride in their role.
And a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. Jenny Weiss also joins me and she's ready to share her story with us.
Jenny, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thanks for having me, Jonathan.
Jenny, I know this is going to take some time to share your story with us, so I want to leave as much time as possible for that.
So let's get started from the very beginning of how you lost and found your identity.
I was really young when my parents divorced. I was three years old.
And I ended up going to live with my mom.
So I had two older sisters and we went to live with my mom.
And yeah, that was pretty difficult.
There were a lot of traumatic things that happened in my childhood, whether it was my parent using drugs, abuse, different things like that.
And so I grew up with a pretty skewed view of the world, I would say.
You know, thinking some things were okay or normal, that just should never happen, right?
And I was about 12 the first time that I went to a church and responded to an alter call.
And I remember like there was this period where my mom was like bringing us to church.
I don't know why, but well, I do know why, you know, spoiler alert.
That's why I'm in Jesus.
And I remember looking at her when they're doing the alter call and I just said like,
you know, what should I do? Should I go down there?
My mom's like, well, do you want to go to hell?
And I was like, that's a very good question, mom.
No, I do not.
So I went down there and gave my heart to Jesus, but I didn't really give him my life.
I didn't really know what that meant.
And I knew that I wanted him to save me.
I knew that I didn't want to go to hell.
I didn't know who I was.
I didn't know who he was.
And so, you know, there were certain fundamental things I knew.
Like I could pray.
I could ask the Lord to save me, help me because there are a lot of situations in my life
where I needed him to do that.
And he did.
I look back now.
I'm 32 years old. This is 20 years ago.
And I can confidently say, Jesus had my back.
He watched out for me.
His hand was on my life and he protected me, right?
And there were lots of things that I did to put myself in bad situations where I would
need his help.
There's lots of things that just happen because we live in a fallen world, right?
The rain falls on the chest and the unjust alike.
And so fast forward 10 years, I've lived a lot of life.
I have sinned a lot.
You know?
I didn't know who I was.
So I did things to try to find that out.
I drank.
I did drugs.
I had premarital sex.
I did all those things to try to fill this void on the inside of me that only the Lord
could fill.
And I didn't know that, right?
Because the Bible says, "Eternity is written on the heart of man."
And I think somewhere deep down, I really did have the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
So I want to make sure I communicate this.
I was miserable in my sin.
I wasn't happy.
I wasn't having a good time out there partying.
It just seemed like everything that I did added to the misery in my life.
And I thought this would make me happy.
And then it turns out it's empty, meaningless, void of anything, right?
It lead me further into depression, further into darkness.
And there were times where I remember being tormented by demons where I would see demonic
visions.
And I just remembered from my childhood, my sister telling me, "Hey, there's one thing you
can do when you're scared."
And it's say, "I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ."
So I'd be laying there, paralyzed in the bed, seeing a demon.
I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ.
And it's so wild to me.
That's what I knew.
But it's funny how God gives you what you need in seasons, you know, for what you can
handle where you're at.
And so anyway, so I ended up doing all kinds of crazy things.
I joined the Navy.
I was a firefighter.
And I was really searching for purpose and searching for like this.
I want to do something good.
And I was doing tons of things that weren't good while I was trying to do something good.
So it seems like it doesn't make sense, right?
But I ended up in this place where I hadn't moved to Orlando, Florida.
And I'm from the Luxembourg City, which is like a coastal town in the south.
And I moved away there with a boyfriend.
And I think we broke up like a month after we moved there.
And so I was feeling like, "Okay, this was my last chance, like moving here.
I don't have anything to go back to at home.
I don't have anyone.
I'm alone.
And I'm always going to be alone.
And I'd rather just not be here."
And so I was like in the bathroom ready to just like end it.
And I was doing that.
And the Lord spoke to me and he was like, "You do not want to do that."
And I knew that was God because I did.
Like I want I am my flesh wanted to do it.
But deep down like my spirit, I didn't want to do it.
I didn't want to do that.
And that's my belief is like a lot of people who are faced with that situation of wanting
to take their life.
It's because they feel like they have no other option.
And they feel like that would be better than continuing to live the life they have.
But deep down like we all have survival instincts.
We don't really want to end our lives, right?
And so only God could have spoken that to me in that moment.
So I go out and go to talk to the ex-boyfriend and I'm like, "Look, because we still live together."
So it's not right.
I was like, "Look, I was going to kill myself.
We can talk about this later.
But God spoke to me."
And he said, "You know, you don't want to do that."
And he looks at me and he goes, "You are too smart to be that stupid to think that
God is real."
And I was like, "Okay, hold on.
Something's wrong here."
I thought this guy was a Christian.
You know, I thought.
Thank you for breaking up with me.
And I walked outside and I prayed.
And I was like, "God, if you can get me out of this situation, I'm not saying I'm going to
be perfect, but I'm going to do something different."
And I got a phone call from my best friend's mom who, you know, she was like one of the best
influences in my life growing up.
And she called me and she was like, "Genefer?
She always calls me Jennifer.
Jennifer, I want you to move home.
And I will pay for you to go to college.
I will give you a car and you can live here rent-free."
And I was like, "Okay, that has to be God because who would do that, like on their own."
And so I agreed to that.
And meanwhile, she had asked me like, "Hey, don't do drugs.
That's my one rule."
And I was doing well with that for a little while.
Like most people who have a secret addiction or sin, you know, you can pretend for a little
bit, but then it comes back and, you know, I got bored.
I was working for the dean at the college, had a 4.0.
I was like, on the straight and narrow.
And I was like, "I need to spice this up a little bit."
So I started working at a restaurant and what do people at restaurants do?
Drugs.
And so I started doing that with them there and I was like, "This is fine because I'm not
doing it at her house, you know?"
And then I started buying it and hiding it and then doing it all the time.
And then I met a guy, so this is always the hard part of my story was surrounding men,
you know?
And so he went to church.
It's actually the church I'm still a part of today and got saved a month before we met.
So we met in theater.
I had finally got to do all of these arts things I always wanted to do when I was little.
And he brought me to church and I went there and encountered the love of God through people.
There was nothing that I did for them, for them to love me.
There was nothing that I was, I wasn't anything special, you know?
I was like, the lowest of the low, you know?
And they just love me.
And it really opened my eyes to, "Hey, I think God loves me like this.
Actually, He loves me better than this, you know?"
And I started to really just learn about who I was in Christ that I wasn't.
All these things that my story had convinced me I was.
I wasn't unlovable.
I wasn't always going to be alone.
I wasn't abandoned.
I wasn't a mistake, you know?
We all have these words that we carry with us, that we've heard because in the tongue
is the power of life and death, right?
And so coming into God's house, in His family and community, I was able to feel for the
first time, this is really who I am, you know?
And I had people speaking that over me, like, "Hey, you're really a daughter of God.
I never forget the first time my pastor told me, "So, spoiler alert, the relationship didn't
work out with that guy.
We were actually engaged, ended up in the engagement broke apart.
I went into ministry school because everyone was like, "This is what you should do with
your life."
And I was like, "Geller crazy.
I was just doing drugs six months ago."
And so, but I had a dream, like, the Lord just confirmed it and so I went.
And in that time, I was like working for the church, you know?
That was my life.
I was just at church all the time, pretty much seven days a week.
And so, I remember, like, sitting in a staff meeting in my pastor talking about this concept
of sons and daughters of the house.
And what does that look like?
You know, a daughter of the house serves a daughter of the house belongs, a daughter of
the house, you know, pours into others.
And my pastor looked to me and he was like, "Gen, that's really who you are.
You're a daughter of the house."
And obviously, I'm getting emotional.
That missed so much to me because I didn't feel like anybody's daughter for such a long
time.
That's because of how I grew up.
Did you grow up, Fatherless?
I love my father.
I really do.
I think the world of him.
But I also can acknowledge at the same time that I didn't feel like he was really there
for me growing up because my parents divorced, you know?
I lived primarily with my mom.
There were a lot of times where my dad just wasn't there for whatever reason.
Especially when I was 15 years old, I discovered my mom's drug addiction.
And I remember like finding drugs in her room.
It was actually Mother's Day.
We were doing like a spa day.
I went to get something out of her room.
And there was just this pile of white powder.
And I think the thing that happens when you're a kid and something like that happens is
your brain is like, I'm not safe.
I'm not safe.
I'm not safe.
And it's hard to connect that to your parent.
It almost feels like betrayal.
You're like betraying your parent by viewing them in an honest way in the way that they are,
right?
And so I called my dad.
I was like, hey, Mom, I'm going to call daddy.
Like go outside, I call him.
Tell him what happens.
It's just like silence on the other end of the line.
And I felt like my dad should come in and save me.
Like he should be the hero on the white horse, right?
But he wasn't.
And that was incredibly challenging to walk through.
In fact, I think in less than a year, things have gotten so bad with my mom.
I would be finding her passed out with needles.
We went Christmas shopping her and my sister.
And I, and she was like that family that's behind us.
Like they're following us.
And it's like a mom and a dad and their kid.
She's swarving down side streets saying that'll lose them.
She just was not in her right mind.
And I had to call my dad and tell him, hey, I don't know what you need to do, but on your
end, you need to get ready for me to come live with you.
That's what's happening.
So I think that created in me this need and desire to take control of situations because I wasn't
safe because I didn't feel like I could have anybody to rely on.
And that definitely like, led into my relationship with the Lord, feeling like, okay, like here's
what you need to do, God.
If you just do this one thing, everything will be okay.
And it translated into romantic relationships with men too of like, hey, you want to know
how hard it was to let a man lead me.
So challenging because there was this innate thing of like, I just can't trust you.
Are you really going to do what's best for me?
Are you really going to look out for me?
Are you really going to protect me?
And I think men have this natural desire to be a protector and it can be so devastating
for a woman to deny them that right?
And so it's really sneaky of Satan how he set all this up in my life, right?
How he was like, if I can get her not to trust her dad, then she won't trust men and she won't
trust God, but God is so much more powerful.
He's so much more above it and so sovereign.
And I'm just so thankful that maybe that's my story, but like, wow, look at how my relationship
with the father has just become this life altering, life giving, beautiful, amazing story.
How has that come back to shape your view of your father now?
I love my father.
I adore my father.
You know, father stuff really gets me emotional.
So I'm definitely tearing up already.
But I remember the day that I was in, I was in ministry school and I was living in someone
else's home like a host home.
It wasn't really that far from where my dad lives and I'm like lying in bed there.
I think maybe I was sick or something.
And you know, T.D.
Jakes and his daughter, Sarah Jakes Roberts, I love her.
And a video her has popped up in my YouTube feed and I always say like God is sovereign over
the YouTube feed.
Like, there's always stuff coming through at the right time.
And there was this episode with her and her father called daddy issues and I was like,
that's the last thing in the world I would ever watch because I don't have daddy issues.
Y'all, I told you my story.
Like it's blatantly obvious.
But I was like, I'm good.
Like and I would never say that about my dad and I would know, you know, but I clicked
it for some reason, probably because it was the two of them.
I was like, I want to see this.
And T.D. Jakes says to the audience, you know, there's some of you in here who feel like it's
your fault, your father left you.
And I start bawling.
I have never had that thought.
I've never like, I could never pick that out in my mind that bold statement of like, I'm
the reason my dad divorced my mom.
I would have never said that but it was somewhere in there because my heart resonated with
that.
And I actually went to my dad.
I think it was like a holiday and I said, hey, daddy, like I want to ask you, what's the
reason you and mom divorced because no one ever told me.
And I think I've been kind of blaming myself my whole life for that.
And he was like, well, now the journal bill, I'll tell you.
I was like, okay, glad we can have this talk.
And he said, you know, my mom was just passed out all the time, not taking care of us.
You know, just it was very difficult for him.
There was a adultery involved.
And so he said, I just couldn't take it anymore.
And they divorced and he actually remarried shortly after to my stepmom.
And so I think I had this feeling of like, what are we not good enough for you?
You know, and I remember like my stepmom, she was so wonderful and so great and loving until
her mom passed away.
And then it really changed her.
And I still think highly of her as well.
I love her, but it definitely did change.
And she treated us different.
And I remember her telling me, hey, you know, I never wanted to have kids when I was little.
And so there was some hurt and anger, right?
Of like, why did you marry this lady?
Why did you leave my mom?
Why did you marry this lady?
Why did you leave us?
You know, you think this is a better life, you know?
And so one day I was like, just popping into my pastor's office, you know, he'd kind of
become like a spiritual dad to me.
And so I'm like sitting down and I'm like, what's up?
How's stuff going?
Just a casual chat.
And he out of nowhere is like, hey, Jen, I think he still
have some forgiveness you need to work through with your dad.
And I was like, you have some forgiveness.
Like I was like, no, not me.
And I'm like crying while I'm saying that.
No, I don't.
You know.
And as soon as he said that, it's like, gosh, the power of our words, it just convicted
in my heart.
And I realized he was right.
I realized it was true.
Because for Christmas that year, I had
bought my dad stakes like a whole big thing of stakes.
And I was like, so excited.
And the reason I was excited is because deep down, I believed that my dad would invite me
over for dinner if I got that for him.
And that's not what happened.
And I found I was always wanting my dad to be this man that he wasn't.
I wanted him to be the white knight who saved me.
I wanted him to be the dad who was interested in my life, who talked to me, who saw me,
who invested in me.
And he did that in ways that he could, right?
And what my pastor told me is, Jen, things got a lot better in my life when I finally forgave
my dad, not just for what he did, but what he didn't do and who he would never be.
And that's a really humbling experience.
To say, OK, you're never going to be the dad I want you to be.
And that's OK.
Because ultimately, you're the dad that God gave me.
Like you're the dad that God allowed me to have.
And there's a reason for that.
And so I think it takes a huge amount of maturity to be able to look your parents' shortcomings
in the face to be able to take an honest inventory of your relationship with that person and
say, you know what?
I haven't been pretty either.
And one thing I know God says about parents, the only thing I know from the Bible is honor
your mother and father and you will have a long life.
And so I started, you know, someone told me that verse.
And I was like, I don't have to honor my mother and father because look what they did
to me.
They weren't there for me.
You know, they did this down the other.
They sent against me.
And God was like, no, you do.
Like I didn't write that verse and say everyone except for Jen because she had such a hard
childhood.
He didn't say that, you know?
His word is true and infallible, no matter what.
And so I started looking for ways I could honor my parents even for who they are now, even
with what they did to me then.
I was like, okay, God, how can I honor my parents?
And sometimes that's like asking for my dad's advice, right?
Calling him on Father's Day, telling him happy birthday.
It doesn't have to look like putting myself or my mental health like in a precarious place,
right?
But honoring the way that God intends me to, it's all about the heart.
Now that we've heard your story about losing and finding your identity, how did you find
your purpose?
I had always wanted to do arts related things since I was a little girl.
People were like, you should be an actress when I was little.
I would dress up and like entertain my family.
And really that was kind of like my survival skills because I knew if I could make people
laugh, I wasn't in a bad place, right?
And so I loved to sing as well, but my sister's teased me about my singing so I never thought
I had a good voice until I was in high school.
I had my first boyfriend were driving in the car.
Country song comes on the radio.
I start singing and he's like, oh, you have a good voice.
And I was like, wait, me?
No, I just thought like I stunk because my sister's told me I did, you know?
And so my family was very musical.
Starting up my mom is a singer, my dad, world's greatest guitar player.
My dad introduced me and my mom to all the great music that I grew up surrounded by.
And I started playing the saxophone when I was 12 and so I played all the way through high
school.
I got a full ride scholarship, which I turned down because of a boy, of course.
And I always had that within me, those gifts within me.
I love to write.
I wrote so much as a kid in read books.
I love to read books.
And so I finally get to this place where I'm in college and I can pursue things that you
just can't do when you're growing up with like all this trauma.
And so I start taking piano and voice lessons and theater and got my associates and fine
arts.
And I was in my very first show, which by the way, let me tell you how prideful I was back
then.
The casting list came out and I was not the lead role and I marched into the director's
office and I said, why didn't you give me the lead role?
And he laughed and laughed and he was like, this is your very first play.
And I said, so, so I know a lot to learn and a lot of humbling to go through.
But I got the role of a 63 year old German librarian and it was a great role.
It was very challenging and there were actually some people from Germany in the audience
that night who were like, what part of Germany are you from?
And I was like, I fooled you.
And so this director was also there and he saw me recruited me to come be in his show.
And that was where I met that guy that I had mentioned who brought me to church.
And so once all that fell apart, I really had some decisions to make.
I remember my pastor challenging me like, hey, when I was in ministry school, Jen, I think
you should not act for this year.
And I was like, literally like a spoiled child.
I was like, no, that's not fair.
Like I just discovered this thing that I love doing more than anything else, which is probably
why I needed to stop doing it.
And God just kind of revealed to me like, you're not going to know who I created you to be
until you stop pretending to be other people all the time.
And so I laid that wonderful thing down and thankfully the Lord was gracious enough.
To give me more opportunities to do it.
And when I was 25, I was on this mission strip to Los Angeles.
I was reading a book called Driven by Eternity.
And it really takes you through this process of discovering what is your calling, like your
unique calling that God has on your life.
It's a very wonderful book.
I recommend it.
It is a little scary because it does talk about what happens when you get to heaven before
the great white throne of judgment.
If you haven't answered the call of God in your life, and that scared me so much, I was like,
I'm Lord, you're going to reveal to me what you created me to do because I cannot miss
it.
And so I was reading that book on a plane.
I took a nap and just had a dream.
Everything was black.
And the Lord said, I've created you to bring biblical truth to the entertainment industry.
And so I did not know what to do with that.
I took it to my mentors, pastors, prayed, and really the word for that season was just like,
do what you can where you're at.
I was in another show at a theater and there was a girl who came out.
Her mom was abusing her for her whole life.
And I took her out to dinner, shared Jesus with her.
She came to church, gave her life to him.
And she's been like a spiritual daughter to me ever since.
So whether it was that or mentoring youth at church or teaching the Bible in creative
ways, like God was just kind of showing me how to do that.
And then I ended up running a school for creatives in a ministry that I was a part of back home.
And God really showed me there that I would then go on to do bigger things.
And once I moved to Georgia to plant a church with my pastors, the Lord really showed
me like, okay, you're going to have a ministry.
It's called the creative Christian.
And it's three parts, one part, a school to teach creatives, their gift and a faith-filled
environment, the second part, a production company so that those works of art they have
can be made.
And the third part is equipping creatives to use their art on the mission field.
And so that's really how God revealed that purpose to me.
As we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
I think of Father's biggest purpose is to give his child a picture of God, of how God loves,
of how God protects, of how God, you know, pours himself into us.
And so I just would challenge fathers to devote themselves to God more because I find the
more that we spend time with God, the more we become like Him.
And the more that a father becomes like the Lord, like Jesus, having the heart of God,
loving like He does, displaying the fruits of the Spirit, the more that their kids are
going to understand who God really is.
Thank you so much for closing us out and thank you so much for sharing your story on the
Father and Challenge.
May God bless you and your life, Richley.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge, please visit
thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
[űnnyot not]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this enlightening episode my guest reveals groundbreaking insights into achieving personal growth. If you're stuck, or at your plateau in life and you either can’t see what’s next or how to get beyond where you are, this is one you’re not going to want to miss.
Bryan May is a highly sought-after Breakthrough Consultant who helps individuals break through personal and professional barriers. He’s also a dad. Drawing from his personal experiences, Bryan now helps others overcome limiting beliefs, self-doubt, and life's inevitable plateaus.
To learn more about Bryan May or get coaching visit:
https://www.bryanisamazing.com/
Find Bryan May on Instagram at: https://www.instagram.com/bryan.may/
Create your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
https://zencastr.com/?via=thefatherhoodchallenge
Transcription - Overcoming Life’s Plateaus
In this enlightening episode of The Fatherhood Challenge, my guest reveals a groundbreaking
insight into achieving personal growth if you're stuck or at a plateau in life and either
you can't see what's next or how to get beyond where you are.
This is one you're not going to want to miss, so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to The Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
I have Brian May with me.
Brian is a highly sought after breakthrough consultant who blends business acumen with
spirituality to help individuals break through personal and professional barriers.
He's also a dad.
Drawing from his personal experience, Brian now helps others overcome limiting beliefs,
self-doubt, and life's inevitable plateaus.
Brian thank you so much for being on The Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you very much for having me, I appreciate it.
Brian let's start with your story.
What's the story behind how you became a breakthrough consultant?
The story is this.
I am a couple of years ago I had a tragedy in my life and I lost my wife and so my son and
I kind of rebuilt.
He was only one and a half at the time and I was very spiritual beforehand and it took
me more onto that path.
When you have such a young boy, you don't want him to have negative feelings towards these
kind of events that are obviously negative towards us as adults, right?
Even obviously if you're a child, five in up, which he's five now, of course would be
very sad for them but at one and a half, it's a hard thing to deal with.
I didn't want him to have negative feelings towards it.
That's what kind of broke me out of this shell that I was in and really forced me to keep
living life if that makes sense.
Is it normal to hit a plateau in life or is there ultimately something wrong with us or
in us that is creating the plateau?
I think it's totally normal to hit a plateau, right?
I think we hit multiple plateaus depending on the areas of our life, whether it's going
to the gym and not being able to lift more weight than a certain amount, whether it's
not being able to make more money than a certain amount.
I think plateaus are super normal and with breaking through, with being a breakthrough consultant,
the whole point is to break past limitations.
The whole point is to break past those plateaus by gaining clarity, right?
We want that new level of understanding.
We want to turn that moment of an obstacle or a challenge and we want to transform it into
an opportunity.
As they say, it's the darkest before the dawn and we need to push through and sometimes
we get stuck because we run out of options of how to push through and sometimes people
don't want to push through.
For me personally, I don't take on clients that let's say they know they're in some kind
of a trouble, they know they hit some kind of plateau, but they don't want to push through.
It has to be someone that, hey, I really want to get to the next level but I don't know
how or I don't know what's stopping me.
But once you say, hey, I want to get past this, I want to get a Ferrari, well then your brain
can start thinking a little differently.
It is very important to understand that these plateaus are totally normal in life and we
have to want to break through that.
When you get to a point that you don't know how to break through, you need to seek help
just like you would if you were in the gym, you would hire a personal trainer.
It's just like that.
What you went through was often what's referred to as the dark night of the soul and oftentimes
for me, I've hit it twice in my life and every single time it's a terrifying experience
and I have at first tried to avoid it that tends to be the instinctive reaction you just want
life to go on and you don't really want to go into that dark night place.
There are bad consequences to be paid over a long period of time for avoiding that dark
night experience rather than just going through it.
Going through it is terrifying.
It is not a fun place to be but who you are coming out on the other side of it.
If you've gone through it well is often a place where you can find your identity and purpose
and it sounds like that's kind of like what you went through.
Absolutely.
I think there's multiple layers and I think what people have to realize, which they know,
a lot of times you push it to the side is that different people feel differently, people react
differently, right?
There's not just one trick for everyone.
You have to work with people based on their personality and based on their previous experiences.
I think that a lot of times we think that, "Oh, well, if I go through this dark night of
the soul, I'm never going to feel negative things again."
That's not true.
You can go through it and still feel negative emotions.
I'll give you an example.
This just happens to me.
Last week, Monday and Tuesday for whatever reason, I woke up Monday morning and I just
was not feeling well.
It was like sadness was just very heavy on my heart.
In May of this year, I lost my mother.
She passed away.
My father is, he's going through his own grieving process.
He wanted to remove some of my mother's clothing from the house and we ended up bringing
a lot of the clothing here and going through it.
I think it was a combination of that.
I felt very heavy Monday and Tuesday.
What I remind myself, even though I'm sad, I still am happy that I'm going through this.
I'm happy that I am experiencing these human emotions.
I try to enjoy it.
I try to enjoy those waves up and down and it's very important because listen, that's how
I connect to my late life.
That's how I connect to my mother and I have my little playlist on Spotify and I enjoy it.
I enjoy the sadness.
I rest and then Wednesday I woke up like a superstar.
Wednesday I hit the gym harder than ever and it was a great thing and I think one last
thing, you have to remind yourself and I think that remembering and reminding yourself,
people always talk about affirmations but just simply reminding yourself of things is
very important because the brain has a tendency to make us forget, if that makes sense to
you.
Through significant personal challenges, we've talked about the loss of your wife and then
we've also talked about the loss of your mother which I know what that's like when the death
of my mother really is one of the big things that sent me spiraling into my second dark night
of the soul.
Death just has a way of really waking up some things in you, questions that you may have
had and that's what sent me into that direction.
But you also have been through some health challenges as well.
How have all of those things shaped the way you coach?
Absolutely.
I mean, a lot of it is about resilience, right?
A lot of it is about getting knocked down and getting back up.
You know when you're a child, it's very normal when you start to walk to constantly fall
and it's normal when you start and learn to ski that you know when you, the first time
you ski, everyone knows they're going to fall.
And so the question is, are you willing to keep getting back up in order to get to the
black diamond?
Are you willing to keep getting back up in order to learn how to run?
And the only way to do that is by continuously falling.
You know, Michael Jordan has scored many, many points, but what's even more impressive
is how many shots he's missed.
I believe it's around 12,000.
And so the best baseball players have missed the most balls.
And so we have to really remember that failure is really a way to get success.
And so between health issues, I have Crohn's, which is a stomach disease, and I just wouldn't
let it stop me from living my life.
You know, I know people personally that have some kind of a stomach disorder and they just
stay at home.
They have a work from home job.
They play video games.
They never go out.
They don't have many friends that they see in real life.
And listen, their whole life is built around their conditions.
And now some conditions are more controllable than others, but for me, I just, I don't take
no for an answer.
Whether that's in sales, business, negotiating, and I like win, win, but it has to make
sense.
And you can't just accept that first now.
Talk about your successes for a little bit.
I think that's important given the light of where you've come from.
And for the audience to understand what is possible, you have Crohn's.
You've made a decision not to let it hold you back from living your life.
You've had two significant deaths within the last few years.
So brag about yourself for a little bit.
What are you doing with your life?
My previous life in New York was all real estate.
So I own property in Brooklyn.
I own property in Maryland.
I own property in Florida.
I've sold over 300 houses as a real estate agent.
I own my own office with partners.
We sold, you know, I've sold over $250 million worth of business collectively, the company
probably did half, you know, $500.
And we ended up working out a deal with one of the stars from million dollar listing.
And so he ended up acquiring the company.
I did a lot of flips in New York, you know, buy the house, fix it up, sell it.
And then, you know, after everything happened between COVID, my wife passing, moving to Florida
from New York.
And so I worked and I still do work with someone named Marshall Wilkinson who has, you know, he's
done $3 billion worth of deals.
He owned a construction company in New York that was bought out for $100 million.
And he's my mentor plus I work with him on his projects.
I like the lifestyle.
It's nice freedom, right?
Because whether I'm in my house, which I am right now, or I'm in Dominican Republic, which
I go to, I can still do these kind of things.
It's a lot of freedom.
And I like to give my clients a lot of attention, you know, even though we do have these weekly
meetings, if someone's having an issue, if someone's having a challenge during the week,
and if anyone's gone to talk therapy or any kind of therapy, if something happens, let's say
I'm just making up an example, you get into a fight with your partner on Monday.
Now if you're seeing someone, whether it's a therapist or a coach or a consultant on Friday,
that emotions have really died down from Monday.
Chances are you've already made up.
If you didn't make up, chances are it's less than it was on Monday.
And so you're not getting the full picture.
And so what I do with my clients is I like them to at least lead me a voice note, not a text
message, but a voice note.
So I could really hear the tonality of their voice.
I could hear the words they're using.
And that's how we define negative self-limiting beliefs, right?
When you're in that moment, because when something negative happens, usually you go back to
default.
So I like to use that.
So then when we do meet for our session, we could, we could really dissect that voice
note.
And I think that that's really, really important.
On this program, we've been a broken record about knowing your identity and purpose and
the consequences, what it can do to your life, how it can even destroy your life, if you
don't find it.
What role does knowing your identity and purpose spiritually play and helping dads get unstuck?
Well, it's for sure.
It's a big one, right?
I mean, there's no question about that.
Authenticity is something that I always speak about, right?
It's something where I look at it almost as like a comedian where I love comedy.
I love stand-up comedy.
And I'm sure that we've all seen a comedian on Netflix or HBO or in-person where sometimes
it just falls flat and other people are laughing and sometimes your hysterical laughing.
And so when we find our true identity, it doesn't matter what audience is in front of us.
We're going to be ourselves and talk like ourselves.
And still, of course, be respectful.
And identity and purpose is so important.
A lot of the clients that I have are older in their 40s, 50s, 60s.
They've made a lot of money and they're looking for a legacy.
A lot of these guys have made money doing very boring businesses.
And so one guy, he owns a lot of taxis.
So boring business, but he wants to leave a legacy to his family.
And so it's very important to understand identity and understand your purpose in life.
And really what it turns out is that most people's legacy and purpose are their children or maybe
it's charity, but it's leaving something to future generations, right?
The legacy is absolutely right.
It's a product of finding your identity and purpose.
So that becomes the next step that is on your mind to achieve.
And for dads, this is huge.
That is ultimately what every dad would want.
Totally.
You know, as we move on in life, we do need to change our identity.
And changing our identity doesn't mean we aren't being authentic.
If we were the same exact identity that we were in high school, that actually would be a problem.
And so if you think of it as a business term, because really I've done a lot of business
consulting, a guy that owns a company, let's just say an HVAC company.
He goes and he deals with air conditioning systems.
Well, when he first starts out, he just created a job for himself.
He's going to house to house.
He's fixing people's air conditioners.
And then as he grows, he needs to hire people.
He needs to buy more trucks.
He needs to do advertising.
And he needs to grow.
And so he changes his identity from a business operator to being a business owner.
Now if you take that and extrapolate it, when you deal with like a Fortune 500 company,
like Goldman Sachs, the guy who's the CEO of Goldman is very different than that guy
who owns HVAC company with let's say five trucks, even 10 trucks.
And so you have to switch these identities and people really do fall into certain identities.
There's men out there and women out there that can take a company from zero to 100K.
There's men and women out there that can take a company from 100K and turn into a million.
And then there's people out there that can turn a million into a hundred million dollar
company.
Those are all different identities.
And the same thing is true of fathers.
The identity that you need to be a father of a baby is different than of a teenager and
it's different of a 20 year old, right?
And so how we teach our children is mostly the way we do things ourselves, right?
Monkeys see monkey do.
I think that really raising a child is you raising yourself and giving yourself a second
chance at raising yourself.
I've said this many times, children do what they see their parents do.
It's another reason I think it is so critical to be solid with your identity and with your
purpose because if you have that down and you are active about leaving a legacy, guess what
your kids are going to learn how to do.
You know, this is like an easy metaphor to think about.
You have a father that's a drinker and he's drunk all the time.
He still works, right?
There's a lot of functioning alcoholics.
And so you have two sons and one son never drinks because his father is an alcoholic and the
other son is an alcoholic because the father is an alcoholic.
And it's very hard psychologically to know why one child, because right, they live in the
same house.
Why one child goes to the one extreme and one child goes to the other?
And so really, we just have to do the best we can because we don't know exactly what
mutation of genes our child is going to be.
And for anyone out there that has three, four, five, six kids, I know the other day you had
someone on that was a father of six kids.
You know, you start seeing all the mutations of genes.
And so you have to be the best version of yourself to give your children a fighting chance
because it's not fair to say, well, I'm going to be an alcoholic or I'm going to do negative
things just because, okay, this way my kids won't want to be that negative person.
Like, it's too much of a gamble.
That's not the right way of doing it.
It should be, I'm going to do the right things and I'm going to teach my kids to do the
right things and then they will follow in my footsteps.
Can you explain how small consistent actions can lead to major breakthroughs in life and
why people often overlook this approach?
Totally.
The simple answer is it lacks instant gratification.
That's the simple answer.
To go to the gym, let's say lift one weight, maybe go to the bathroom, maybe take a shower,
maybe sit in the sauna for 10 minutes.
You're actually doing something.
You're physically in the gym.
You're not at home.
You've made yourself way to the gym.
Now you're not going to become Arnold Schwarzenegger by doing that.
At the same time by actually getting to the gym, there's a much higher percent chance that
you are going to do one extra exercise.
You're going to walk past the machine and just say, okay, I'm going to try that.
You're going to walk past the weight and just do one bicep curl.
And so the more you go, there's a higher chance you're going to do more and more.
And what a lot of people do, as we all know, by February, most people quit their gym membership.
They're like, I'm going to lose 100 pounds in the next month or I'm going to gain 100 pounds
of muscle in the next month.
They set themselves up for such failure that it's an all or nothing proposition.
Instead of like water hitting a rock for many, many years and putting a hole in the rock,
consistency is the most important.
So I always have clients really take whatever their goal is because I still want them to
dream big.
This isn't about lowering the goal.
It's finding out how to get there in a consistent manner.
And so doing these small, consistent steps, you get massive transformations over the long
haul.
So like a good metaphor that I like to use is, let's say you have a shovel and you're digging
a hole.
Instead of looking every single time you put the shovel into the ground of how deep the
hole is.
And instead of looking behind you to see how much dirt is behind you, just set a timer
for 30 days.
Go out there every day for 30 days and dig.
And what you're going to find is that after 30 days that hole is going to be massive.
And it's much easier on the brain than saying, I'm going to build this massive, massive hole
and then getting defeated right away.
So it sounds like the secret really is small, reasonable, realistic goals for where you are
coupled with very disciplined, consistent habits that you can easily follow.
Yeah.
I mean, really, what is discipline?
Discipline is really putting your emotions to the back burner.
Everyone is emotional based.
We are all triggered by emotions.
No one makes fun of each other anymore.
I was born in 1980 growing up, everyone made fun of each other.
Everyone had fun.
Now you make fun of someone and they cry.
They break down because they're weak.
And so we can't just say, I'm not feeling like doing X. I do a lot of sales.
There's many days I don't want to pick up the phone.
And a lot of people that are sales people that reach out to me, they don't reach out to
me necessarily for sales coaching or sales training.
They actually reach out to me for call reluctancy.
A lot of people reach out to me because they're like, I can't pick up the phone.
I'm scared of talking to people that I don't know.
And that's where it's fascinating, right?
Because we really need to understand that all this is about ourselves.
All of this is, what do I want best for me?
What do I want best for my child?
And the truth is that we have to put emotions aside and get the things done.
You often talk about the importance of reframing adversity.
Can you share some examples of how reframing a negative situation can turn into an opportunity
for growth?
Absolutely.
You know, NLP, neuro-leguistic programming and many modalities, you know, that's the principle
for it.
That's the job of it.
It's to reframe.
And I think that everything in life can be reframed.
And so, you know, for me personally, there's been many things, right?
But like, let's say, let's just say the loss of my life, I have reframed it that, hey, I
need to live my life to the fullest.
I need my son to live life to the fullest because who knows how much time we have left.
And so, it's not about not being said, but it is about getting things done and doing the
best we can and enjoying life because this is what it takes.
And so, with reframing, listen, every negative thing, like to think about this, a guy, a make-believe
guy, he's working, he gets fired because of layoffs.
Now we all heard stories in the past of people like that committing suicide.
We've heard stories of people really going down into like the darkest hour.
And but what is it?
If you reframe it of now, I get that opportunity to start that business.
Now I get this opportunity of time because now I don't have to wake up at 4 a.m. and take
the train and work all day.
Now you can still have the opportunity to find another job, but in the meantime, you have
the time.
So with that time, becomes an opportunity or reframe to work on yourself.
Now you can get to the gym.
Now you can read that book.
Now you can take that online course to learn a new skill.
And so when you redirect it and reframe it as, okay, now I have the time to do these things,
you can catapult yourself into the next area of your life.
So I really believe that reframing is important because anytime something negative happens, you
want to ask yourself, what can I learn from this?
What is this that's causing that I can gain an opportunity from?
And the truth is there's an opportunity in all of these things.
And until we really look at it like that, you know, what happens with our brains is we have
a belief and so we find supporting data of that belief.
So right now, let's say, economy.
If people think the economy is bad, they're going to start looking for people that are doing
bad in their work.
They're going to start looking for people that are laid off, looking for people that are
losing their job.
They're going to look for news that's negative and they're going to reinforce that idea.
Now if the same person says, hold on, just because the economy might not be doing as well
as it was in 1985, there's still people out here making a lot of money.
There's still businesses out here thriving.
And then when you start looking at the road, all of a sudden you start seeing Ferraris,
all of a sudden you start seeing Mercedes.
All of a sudden you start hearing about stories about a guy selling his company for 100
million.
And so what happens is you start gaining these insights of, oh, I'm supporting evidence
that even though the economy might not be as well as what people are still making money.
Because misery loves company and it's very easy just to surround yourself by miserable people
to help yourself feel better.
How can dads listening connect with you, learn more about what you're doing or get your
coaching?
My name is Brian May, B-R-Y-A-N, Brian with a Y, and you could either go to my site, Brian
isAmazing.com or check me out on Instagram, Brian.May, B-R-Y-A-N-M-A-Y.
And just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I will have the links that Brian mentioned posted right there for your convenience.
Brian, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
You have an excellent chance to re-teach yourself.
You have an excellent chance to redevelop yourself through your child, to raise your child
as you would want to be raised, and really be present.
And listen, we're all working, we're all hustling.
Make time, just like you schedule time to watch your TV show or you schedule time to go
to the gym.
You have to schedule time to be present with your child.
And so at least bare minimum, 30 minutes a day, really be present.
Really, I'm not talking about just watching TV with your child, but do the homework with
him or her.
Do an outside sport with them.
Really be present.
And as you're in that present moment, the biggest challenge that I can give you is start
giving your children affirmations.
Start saying, you are amazing.
You are loved.
You are strong.
You are confident.
And have your child repeat it back.
I am strong.
I am confident.
I am enough.
And if you do that every single day, just imagine the self-talk that that child is going to
hear.
Imagine how amazing that child is going to be.
And so I just, for example, when I'm walking my child to the bus stop, he's kind of kindergarten.
Every day we walk to the bus stop, I give him affirmations.
When we're in the car and I pick him up from school because he takes the bus in the morning,
I pick him up in the afternoon, I'm always giving him affirmations.
And the other thing is really praise based on effort.
You know, it's like, wow, you tried so hard.
It's okay to make mistakes.
Because once again, like we spoke about at the beginning, if you do enough failures,
you will succeed.
It's been an honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you so much for all the wisdom and experience that you shared with us.
Thank you.
Really appreciate you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in
this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com
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In this episode we're going to explore the connection between Fatherhood, God and you and why it matters. We will also dive deeper in to the meaning and purpose of Malachi 4:6.
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Transcription - Fatherhood, God and You
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important
fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
There's not a minute to waste on this episode, so we're going to skip the usual
dad jokes and we're going to dive right in. The mission and purpose of the Fatherhood Challenge
is based on Malachi 4/6, which is turning the hearts of fathers to their children.
Every episode, everything done by this program has to align and center around that
scripture verse and mission, so please take the time to read Malachi 4/6 for yourself
and become well acquainted with it. Your future depends on it.
For those of you listening to this program for the first time,
let me share my story on how this program started. The reason God put this program into the world,
is not for my benefit, although I have personally learned a lot and grown a lot from some of the
episodes produced. God intended this program to warn the world of the horrible consequences of not
taking the warning of Malachi 4/6 seriously. God cares so much about relationships in the home.
God cares about dads. He cares about the Father, son, father, daughter relationship. He cares about
marriages too. Why? Because they all impact how we see the process and understand God. God is so good.
He always has been. He always will be. He has given us nothing but good things, good gifts, the gifts
of family. We human beings are the ones who have trashed and ruined his gifts. Then we blame God for
something we as humans did to the perfect gifts that he gave to us. Then we try and repair the
broken gifts ourselves and reject anything from God going forward. Imagine if you gave someone a perfect
gift out of love, hoping that it would also help that person understand you a little better and they
trashed your gift. They rejected you instead. How would you feel about that person? Would you love them
anyway and still try to connect with them? This is God. This is who God is. What does this rejection look
like for us today? Approximately 18.3 million children. That's about one in four are growing up without a
biological father in the United States. It is also still one in four globally. South Africa often
reports one of the highest rates of fatherlessness with estimates suggesting that around 60% of children
grow up without a father. Let me share some impact on the damage fatherlessness does to children.
Let's look at this from an angle of mental health. Anxiety and depression for example research shows
that children without fathers are two to three times more likely to suffer from anxiety and depression.
Now let's move on to conduct disorders. Higher prevalence of issues like ADHD and behavioral problems
leading to difficulties in school and relationships are also likely. Now let's talk about the
economic consequences. For example poverty rates. Fathersless families are over four times more
likely to live in poverty with around 30% of those households facing food insecurity. Then let's talk
about education attainment. Fathersless children have 71% higher chance of dropping out of high school,
limiting future job prospects and earning potential. What about crime? How does fatherlessness
impact crime? I'm going to share two points of this. There's a lot more to talk about with crime,
but for the sake of time we're keeping it very, very brief. Juvenile delinquency when it comes to that
children from fatherless homes are two to three times more likely to be involved in criminal
activities, including theft and gang involvement. What about incarceration? About 85% of youth in prisons
come from father absent homes, indicating a strong correlation between father absence and criminal
behavior. Now let's move on to the spiritual aspect, the spiritual consequences. As far as moral
development is concerned, lack of a father figure can lead to uncertainty about values, ethics,
resulting in moral confusion. Then let's talk about identity issues. Many fatherless children struggle
with their sense of identity, which can hinder spiritual growth and community involvement.
You've heard me many, many, many times on this program be a broken record talking about the
importance of finding your identity and purpose. The world likes to define this in other terms,
in psychological terms and other terms, but it would be irresponsible to completely negate the
spiritual. And many times the world likes to very purposefully omit the spiritual necessity in finding
your identity and purpose. In other words, the world would like to pretend that you were not created
by God and that God somehow has absolutely no involvement in giving you an identity and purpose.
We have such a high need for therapy and other resources, specifically for dads who struggle with
things like addictions, things that dads use to numb. What are dads numbing? A majority of the issues
stem from a hole inside of them. You can imagine an image of a human being and in a store-so area,
there's a huge hole of who he's supposed to be that's missing and that hole is an identity
and purpose. And so when you feel that emptiness, you know, you know inside of you that something is
wrong that you are not complete, you'd feel it and it hurts. It's painful and you always wonder who
is I supposed to be something at some point robbed it from you, something, some event in your life,
something happened that robbed you of your identity and purpose. And so you will do anything you have
to do to go find that either that or you will do anything you feel you have to do to numb the pain
of that reality that you are missing that wholeness, you are missing your identity and purpose.
And this is why we have so many programs for addictions. This is why the therapy business is booming
because we are trying to solve all of these problems that stem from a spiritual issue. Rather than
address the spiritual issue behind this, we avoid it and we seek it other places. And we think
somehow that that is going to be a permanent solution and it's not. It can help us address some of the
pain. It can lead us on a path towards healing, but it will not last and it will not remain firm and
it will not fill us completely without the spiritual God has to be present and be part of the solution
or it is a complete waste of time. So now let's talk about the specifics that underscore the multifaceted
impact of fatherlessness on individuals in society. If you read Malachi 4 6 carefully,
there is a reference to a curse for not taking God's warning seriously. God saw this curse coming
out as a thousand over a thousand years ago before we even tried our best to understand the scripture.
We've responded by trying to explain the curse as talking about anything else other than fatherhood
or we've just flat out ignored it. I can remember the first time that I read Malachi 4 6 and my reaction
then was cool story, bro. So in my own way, I had distanced myself. This is something that happened
thousands of years ago. It has nothing to do with me. It's not related to me. And so for me, it just
read as, hey, this is great advice, turning the hearts of fathers to their children. Yeah, great advice.
People should look into that. That's it. That was the extent of its relevance. It was something that
just happened to be written thousands of years ago and a little part of that might be relevant for
us today. Other than that, for me, the purpose of the story was just to show us what was being talked
about in some society and some specific culture thousands of years ago. And that's it. And that's
for the most part, that's where we leave that story. Pastors have avoided it in their congregations.
With the exception of networks and stations airing this program, the media, both Christian and secular,
have avoided the topic of fatherhood and they have avoided the topic of Malachi 4 6. Fatherhood groups
and organizations are content to stay away from Malachi 4 6. And any association with fatherhood
and especially with God, this includes dad coaches. It's a saturated market. Dad coaches today
are actually arrogant enough to believe that leaving God out of fatherhood can still result
in a dad who's at his best. God is the ultimate dad coach. If you aren't following and teaching his
ways, then you are selling others short and teaching a lie because you aren't getting your information
from the source. Let's talk about the curse God tried to warn us about over a thousand years ago.
What does it look like today? It has gotten our attention in the form of mass shootings. So let's talk
about the impact of fatherlessness on mass shootings. Whenever a mass shooting happens, one of the first
narratives that you're going to hear throughout the media is the narrative about gun control. It is
almost as if we have this this agenda that has been waiting for a reason, waiting for an excuse to be
pushed through legislation, waiting for an excuse to be pushed through mass media. But it just needs
the right story and the story has to be real. It has to be true. And so every time a mass shooting
happens, it is the perfect gift to the media. It is a perfect gift to politicians who have been waiting
for the right opportunity to serve this in front of you, the audience. So gun control is the very first
thing that you're going to hear. The other common narrative, which just backs the gun control
narrative is the need for school security. What you won't hear talked about is what was going on
in the home in the family life of the mass shooter. You will not hear that presented front
in center. That will not be the first thing that the media wants to talk about. There won't be
those deep investigations. And it's easy to do that because all you have to do is say, hey, the
family has a right to their privacy. And that's it. That is all the excuse anyone and everyone needs
to stay away from that issue. And so we'll talk about everything else because it's easier. But we are
missing so much vital information in understanding the home life behind these shooters. There are common
threads. We just don't want to look at them. And maybe it's because there are echoes in the
in the lives of those families that might look a little bit like our own reality. And that's a
painful thing to face. For example, let's look at the Valdi shooter. No one was talking about the
home life of the Valdi shooter. This was an event, a mass shooting that happened in Texas. No one talks
about the Valdi shooter's father, his lack of presence, his lack of consistent involvement in the
life of his child. He was missing to be blunt. No one talks about the impact of the marriage on that
kid. That kid suffered a lot. It does not excuse what the shooter did while he's a child. He's still
responsible for what he did. But my point is there are a series of events that led up to that moment.
And all of them center around the home life. It centers around the marriage. What happened to the
marriage between the kids father and his mother and the mother is not completely innocent either. She
has her own role to play of being missing emotionally and physically unavailable for her son.
The same as the father. And then let's talk about the daughters. There are two daughters involved in
that home. Both of the daughters went to the military. They went to the Navy. And they were also on
record, stating that one of the biggest reasons why they went to the Navy was because their father
was unavailable for them, both physically and emotionally. These are the stories. These are the
truths. These are the realities that the media won't talk about. This is why we're talking about it here.
In other words, what we can say is that we've come to a place in our society that a mass shooting
is less painful to us than talking about what's going on in our own homes. And that is a really,
really bad place to be. So when we read that scripture texts in Malachi 4, 6 where it says,
"Well, less I strike your land with a curse." Back thousands of years ago mass shootings were not
something that anybody in that culture and that time would have understood. Whenever God presents
something in our time, or in the case of their time thousands of years ago, He always spoke to people
where they were in their culture, in their time, in their reality, in their language. They
understood curses. They understood exactly what that was. When famine happened, when other bad things
happened, when war happened, pestilence, and their mindset and their culture, that was likely because
they did something to anger some God. And so they had better change what they were doing. Figure out,
first of all, what made that God so angry that He caused these things to happen. Second, we need to
change so we can make that God happy again. And then maybe these curses can be reversed.
That was their mindset. This is the way they thought thousands of years ago.
So God spoke to them in their language in a way that they would understand.
What God really wanted out of them was change in their homes and their families. The same is true
today. God expects and wants the same for us. Thousands of years ago, God knew these things would
happen. God knew about these curses, the way they would look for us in our time. By the way,
mass shootings are just one example of the curse. It's not the curse. There are many other things. I
mean, we can look at our crimes statistics. We actually already did. We've already taken a look at
some of those consequences, some of the curses that God saw thousands of years ago that He was trying
to warn us about long ago, but we have missed it. We have ignored it. And so this is why we are talking
about it today because we have to change. We have to be willing to do something different.
The statistics that we're reading, the realities of what are happening of what's happening today,
the suffering that is happening in families and homes, the brokenness, the fatherlessness is not
acceptable and we have to do something different. We have to change it. So let's talk about how
fatherlessness impacts marriage. Fatherlessness can significantly impact event individuals' views on
marriage and relationships, leading to various outcomes. So here are some of the key effects.
Let's look at attitudes towards marriage. There is skepticism. Individuals from fatherless homes may
develop a skeptical view of marriage, often seeing it as unstable or untrustworthy. Let's also talk
about expectations. They might have reduced expectations for their own relationships, potentially
leading to less commitment. Marriage as a whole, at least in the United States, have actually dropped.
Fewer people are getting married. There is a lot of cohabitation that happens. And even couples
that are considering marriage will often cohabitate before they marry. Could this likely be linked to
the skepticism about marriage itself? Could this also be because of the lower expectations of marriage?
I can assure you that this was not what God intended for marriage to be. This is not what it was
originally intended to look like. But fatherlessness does play a role in damaging the marriage institution.
Let's talk about relationship skills. The lack of role models growing up without a father can mean
fewer positive male role models resulting in challenges in understanding healthy relationships
and communication. Have you ever wondered why you see so many kids on screens? Why they're constantly
looking at phones, those that have phones. They have to be distracted by something. And they struggle
with interpersonal relationships, communicating with their parents, communicating with other adults.
Those skills just aren't there. Let's talk about another aspect of communication. Let's talk about
conflict resolution. Skills for resolving conflicts and navigating emotional intimacy may be
underdeveloped, increasing the likelihood of relationship problems. This might feed right over into
divorce rates. If we can't resolve conflicts, then marriages can fall apart easily. So how is
fatherlessness increasing divorce rates? Research indicates that children of divorced or single-parent
families are more likely to experience divorce themselves, sometimes due to a lack of understanding
of a healthy, marital dynamic. If we don't have a good example of what a healthy marriage should look
like, because it's not part of our reality with our own parents, when it's time for us to have those
relationships, we look to what's around us, because we have nothing else to go on. We can either just
form our own opinion based on what we think it might be based on our own internal ideals of what we
think marriage is. And if we're not sure about that, we'll look to the culture around us, which really
isn't looking so great, because the examples of what a healthy marriage looks like now. And we're only
talking about the marriages we see around us, may not be the healthiest to look at into model. We
haven't even talked about the high numbers of divorce around us, the people around us that are divorced
or that have been divorced multiple times. And we look at that as the norm. And so it can cheap
an marriage. We can lose that value and understanding of what it means to remain committed. And that's a
very bad thing for us to see. Let's talk about teenage pregnancy and unstable relationships.
Fatherless youth, particularly girls, are at a higher risk of early pregnancy and may enter into
unstable relationships, perpetuating cycles of father absence. And this should not be very difficult
to understand, because girls growing up in the home often look to their father as the ultimate example
of who they should look to for a husband. So when the father is missing, and this has two components
to it, this can be physically absent and this can also be emotionally absent. And we're talking
about girls, but this is also true for a home with boys. The father must be physically present,
and must be emotionally present. They are equally important, but when it comes to teenage girls,
if the father is either physically absent or emotionally absent, it can lead and will lead likely
to destructive patterns in who they seek in a mate. Now let's talk about emotional challenges.
The fear of abandonment is very, very real. Individuals may struggle with fears of abandonment
and commitment issues, making it difficult to maintain long term relationships. There we go.
There's another impact on marriage. That's negative. Then let's talk about trust issues.
Past experiences of father absence can lead to trust issues affecting both romantic
and platonic relationships. This may also feed into why people who are divorced are less likely
to remain in that marriage when they remarry. Now let's talk about parenting styles,
replicating patterns, for example, individuals from fatherless homes may unintentionally
replicate their parents' relationship patterns affecting their own parenting style and future
family dynamics. This is how cycles can get repeated. This may be where generational curses can
actually play out, so it is something to pay attention to. Where does this all lead to? What is the
conclusion? The impact of fatherlessness on marriage and relationships is significant and multifaceted.
There are efforts to support through education and positive role models that can help mitigate
some of these effects and promote healthier relationships. But again, without the spiritual focus
on strong relationships with God, the chances of these solutions having a lasting effect
are significantly reduced. The top two reasons that everyone is leaving God out of an absent
father or marriage crisis is anger and/or shame. Emotions are powerful and often scream louder to us
than truth. Truth can be bold but quiet. Emotions flow, they come and go. They can be warning signs to
us or simply make us feel good in the moment, but they aren't solid or unchanging. Truth is solid.
As the scriptures say, the truth will set you free. This is where we come to identity in purpose.
Every man must know his identity in purpose. It is essential that every man seek this truth
in his own personal life. Without this truth, you are building your life on sand instead of rock.
You will be easily ruled by your emotions, by trends, the media, and the lies that you hear from
others. Your true identity in purpose is only found in connecting with your Heavenly Father.
There is no other way to find this. If your marriages in crisis, this is where you start to find answers.
If your relationships with your children are in crisis, this is where you start to find answers.
If your job or career is in crisis, this is where you start to find your answers.
If your whole life is garbage, this is where you start to find your answers. Let go of yourself
and grab onto your Heavenly Father and don't let go. Get a good Christian therapist who understands
the value of restoring you to your true identity in purpose and can help you do this. Next,
get connected with a group of Christian men who will welcome you and enjoy fellowship with you.
They will be essential to your personal growth spiritually.
Last, listen to this program and share it with others that you know who would benefit from what is
taught here. As you listen, I want to challenge you to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your mind
and teach you as you listen. This program began because the Holy Spirit asked me to start the
Fatherhood challenge. I had no desire or interest in doing this when he asked me. That was one
sign that it was his voice I was hearing clearly and not my own. But I felt the love of Jesus and the
love of the Father expressed through the Holy Spirit for fathers and families everywhere.
For the children this program would someday bless. I was also very well aware of how God Himself
personally rescued me from my own brokenness and saved me from breaking my family and marriage apart.
I remembered how I heard Jesus forgave me for my many sins knowing that no one else had the power to
forgive them. Jesus forgave me and treated me as if I had never committed those sins,
giving me a fresh start, a chance to live a new life in Him. Now the Holy Spirit is inviting me
to cooperate with Him, to partner with Him and start a new program and a new ministry to build
strengthen and restore fathers to their children. After what He did for me in ministry to build and
strengthen me, after what He did for me, I was not about to say no, working with the Holy Spirit,
working at the center of where God's heart is, is where true meaning lies and where wholeness
and joy is found. I have come to enjoy what I do and consequently I've found more joy in God.
I challenge you to do the same. I challenge you to connect with Him right now.
Clear some space wherever you are, clear some time and just take that moment. Don't put it off,
don't waste time, use this time right now and just quiet yourself and open up your heart to God.
Open up to your Heavenly Father. Lay down the shame. Lay down everything. Lay down the fear.
He just wants you the way you are. Right here, right now. Just talk to Him. He is waiting.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more
information about the Fatherhood Challenge, please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
[Music]
[Music]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Are you struggling with an addiction in your life right now? It could be alcohol, drugs, pornography or something else. Have you tried or considered walking away but are losing the battle? Addiction is passed down in part from generation to generation but so is recovery. The good news is there is a roadmap to recovery and I’ve brought a guest who will share some gold nuggets of that roadmap with us.
Sarah Allen Benton is a licensed Advanced Alcohol and Drug Counselor and a licensed Mental Health Counselor. Sarah is also the author of Parents In Recovery. Sarah has also been a parent in recovery from alcoholism for over 18 years.
To learn more about Sarah Allen Benton or get her book Parents In Recovery visit:
https://www.bentonbhc.com/
Socials:
Sarah’s Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/sarahallenbenton
Parents in Recovery Support Group Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1x5nQE5WX9WGxhxv/?mibextid=K35XfP
Sarah’s Linked In:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahallenbenton
Parents in Recovery Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/parentsinrecovery
Sarah’s Psychology Today blog:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-high-functioning-alcoholic
Self-Help Groups:
- Alcoholics Anonymous (12-Step spiritual): www.aa.org
- Celebrate Recovery (Christian): www.celebraterecovery.org
- Dual Diagnosis Anonymous:
https://ddainc.org/ (12-
Step)
- Narcotics Anonymous (12-Step spiritual): www.na.org
- SMART Recovery (skills-based): www.smartrecovery.org
Therapy Finder:
Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
SAMSHA: https://www.samhsa.gov/find-help
NAMI: https://helplinefaqs.nami.org/article/255-i-need-to-see-a-psychiatrist-therapist-how-can-i-find-one
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Transcription - Breaking Addiction Cycles
Are you struggling with an addiction in your life right now?
It could be alcohol, drugs, pornography or something else.
Have you tried or considered walking away
but are losing the battle?
Addiction is passed down in part
from generation to generation, but so is recovery.
The good news is there's a roadmap to recovery
and I brought a guest who will share some gold nuggets
of that road map with us in just a moment,
so don't go anywhere.
- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,
a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role
and a challenge society to understand
how important fathers are to the stability
and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
- Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guess is license advanced alcohol and drug counselor
and license mental health counselor Sarah Allen Benton.
Sarah is also the author of Parents in Recovery.
Sarah has also been a parent in recovery
from alcoholism for over 18 years.
Sarah, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
-
Thank you so much for having me.
-
Sarah, what is your own story of recovery
and how did that lead to becoming a counselor
and writing parents in recovery?
I was 27 when I entered into my recovery journey
and it was preceded by 12 years of binge drinking
and I was a high functioning alcoholic
so I was really successful in school.
I had a lot of friends.
I had a lot of outside accomplishments
but I had an inability to control my intake
when I would start drinking.
And this, you know, for many years was fun and social
and humorous and then as I got,
into my, you know, mid to late 20s,
it started not to be funny anymore
and in fact something that I couldn't stop the cycle of.
So after about four years of trying to control my drinking
with various and clearly not successful techniques,
I entered into sobriety
and through the help of therapy,
through group therapy, through self-help programs,
through social supports and spiritual pursuits,
I have been sober for over 20 years.
So my journey into recovery started before I became a parent
and some of the parents I interviewed
actually had different orders for those
but I had quite a bit of sobriety under my belt
when I became a parent
but what's interesting is I don't know
if it made the journey any more simplified for me as a parent,
I found becoming a parent in recovery
actually really challenging.
That's probably what prompted the book
because I realized that I had so many years in my sobriety
prior to having my daughter where it was all about me
and I was able to do all of the things I needed to do
on so many different levels for my recovery and balance
and that really, that got all rocked
when I became a parent.
And so really the story of this book also begins
with me walking into a bookstore
seeing a book that was called Mother Noise
reading about how this mother was grappling
with Cindy House, the author,
grappling with whether or not to tell her 11-year-olds
about her addiction and how it's such a part of us
and it struck me that there just wasn't a lot out there
about nonfiction-wise, maybe memoir-wise
but nonfiction-wise about navigating this path.
- So from what I'm gathering out of this,
there were so many things at play in your success
in breaking that addiction and removing yourself from it.
It wasn't just one magical thing.
There were so many different things involved.
- I think that point is crucial and never to be underestimated.
I'm in the field of addiction treatment
and I'm also in recovery so I see it from both sides
and what can happen is people get fixated
on one particular thing, being the thing that saves them
from their addiction and really what it is is to your point.
It's a lot of different aspects and domains of our lives
that we need to foster a lifestyle of recovery.
It's not just, oh just don't use, don't drink,
don't pick up porn, don't engage in addictive behaviors.
It's an entire lifestyle change and it's not all at once.
It's gradual, it's over time, it's different for each person
but you'll notice the parents that I interviewed in my book
all had a way that they had created recovery
in the different domains of their lives
and that they had to shift in each of those
when they became a parent.
There's another really important point that I'm hearing here
and I wanna just kinda dig a little bit deeper into that
and that is the spiritual component of it.
There are a lot of people and maybe even some listeners
listening to this episode right now
that may have heard or may currently think that
to be all and all answer is a spiritual.
That's the one and only thing I need.
I need to just connect to God, I need to give it all to God.
I need to lean on God to remove this from me
and then just like that, boom,
in the snap of a finger, just like that,
it's gonna be gone, everything's gonna be okay.
I'm no longer gonna have the desires or the cravings
or whatever it is and that's going to be my fix.
And I want it to a part for you while I don't want to discredit
that that can happen and it is absolutely possible.
Spiritually speaking and this is also scriptural,
God will often and most commonly use resources around us.
Often, more often than not, multiple resources around us
we live in the physical world here while the spiritual is nice.
We live in dwell and exist in the physical world
surrounded by resources and oftentimes
it is those resources that God will direct us to
looking at this from the spiritual lens.
So there's multiple ways we can come at this
and this is why I'm so glad for the audience to hear from you
and even from others that you've interviewed.
- Well, that's a powerful point because spirituality
and religion are very important for many people in recovery
from all sorts of afflictions, right?
There's medical components that spirituality
and religion help people with, there's emotional,
there's addiction, there's so much.
I mean, it's a cornerstone for many people.
I've actually seen cautionary tales of people
who relied too heavily on spirituality or religion
and did nothing else.
But that's one, and again, I use the term domain,
spirituality is one domain.
There's also actions to be taken in terms of your emotional health,
your physical health, your daily schedule, your work life balance,
your balance with your children, your fun, your downtime.
And so I think that our God leads us to
that our brought to us to utilize
and then we can sort of let go in that sense
but we have to do the legwork, right?
So it isn't sit back, pray and do nothing.
That's really not what it's about.
It's about feeling a flow and a path
and taking balanced action in all of those different domains
that vary time to time, stress to stress
and also using your spirituality as a superpower as well.
- There's a word that's come up so far
in this conversation that's interesting.
The word is lifestyle.
What do some of the changes look like in parents
changing from an addiction lifestyle
to a sober family lifestyle?
- Well, I was very deliberate in using that term
in the title of my book because through the years,
I've more and more through my work with other people
in recovery had these discussions about how,
when I first got sober, there was a lot of feedback
to me from people in my life saying,
why don't you just stop drinking
and just keep things the way they are?
Your life's pretty good and people like you
and why does everything have to change?
And I didn't know.
Like I didn't have a field guide to sobriety,
I went to self-help meetings, but I didn't understand
that it's almost like when you pour a glass of water
or a little bit of water on your desk
and you're like, oh, it's just a little bit of water
and it seeps into everything.
That's the same thing with addiction
and therefore recovery needs to be the antidote to that.
So we don't realize until we stop addictive behaviors
how it impacted a lot of our decision making
and it impacted a lot of the different areas of our lives
who we spent time with, what work we did,
where we hung out, what social activities we did,
if we did anything in that sense,
how we managed our strengths, our recreational activities.
So it actually drives a lot of our lives.
So when we enter into recovery,
all of those areas are then meeting shifting
because they were rotating around the addiction,
whether conscious or subconscious.
Again, I wasn't aware of this until I removed
that addictive behavior from my life.
And so slowly through the years, I started to see
that this isn't just a removal of the addiction
or the addictive substance.
It was a complete reorganization of my life
and so the parenting component is even more interesting
in that sense because you have your lay of recovery
and those different changes in lifestyle changes you make
and then you add this other layer on top of it
a parenting where it's not about you
and you have this other being that has needs
and suddenly everything sort of your equilibrium
gets thrown off and you adjust, but again,
kids have different phases and stages and all of that.
So the lifestyle as a parent and you start to see it
as a sober parent and you can really read about it
in the experiences of parents that I interviewed
where we do feel a little bit different than other parents.
We don't feel like we have the luxury
of just getting completely stressed out
and checking out with substances at the end of the day.
We don't have the luxury if you should call it that
or the right actually.
We've lost our privilege and our right
to use substances moderately because we don't have that ability
but to show up at a party on the weekend
and just throw them back.
So for much of our society, there is that cultural component
and it's hard to undo that and I say lifestyle
because a lot of our culture and many in specific areas
even more so in specific fields
and there's a lot more of a socially acceptable nature
to substance use.
And so a sober parent or a parent in recovery
is living their lives different.
Their reward system is different.
The way that they engage in self care
as a priority is different.
The fact that they may have to integrate more balance
and not run themselves completely ragged
that they need to address their mental health issues.
And again, it's not that everybody shouldn't do these things
but let's be real.
A lot of people don't and especially when they become parents,
they lose all sense of balance
and they oftentimes lose themselves.
You mentioned care.
This is a great segue into the my next question
which is why is it imperative for a dad in recovery
to take care of himself?
What could that care look like for a dad?
Well, I think it's interesting to speak specifically
to fathers because I don't think fathers get enough credit
for their role in parenting
and I think that there's been some type of a societal shift
where a lot of fathers are much more involved in the activities
and the caretaking of children.
They're not just bringing home the bacon.
They are involved in many different aspects of fatherhood.
So in the past, I think that there was a lot
of this work hard play hard mentality
that could often involve substances.
And again, I think that men and women's recovery is very different.
I do think that women have the ability to bond
and to connect in different ways.
I think sometimes men struggle to connect with each other
in their downtime and in the activities they're doing
without substances.
Some groups of men, I'm, you know, again,
there's exceptions, of course.
But I do think that there is this kind of bonding
and that the substance drink or pot
or other substances can bring down inhibitions
allow men to connect.
And so when, you know, whether it's at home or with their friends,
like when you take that away, social groups change,
work socializing changes, the adventure going to the way
in which you manage your stress, like what role did,
where's your outlet?
How are you going to get that energy out?
Is what kind of exercise or mental exercise or spiritual exercise
do you need to do?
How are you going to now connect with your friends?
There's so many questions.
And, you know, I think that men also struggle
with the vulnerability piece of getting their, you know,
needs or being in touch with their needs
or identifying how they're feeling and expressing.
Very true, yes.
Yeah, so I think it's really different for both.
And I've worked with personally, I know and interviewed
and have had clients like male and female.
And I really feel like there is a significant difference.
Why do you think it is important for kids
to know about their parents' past lives as addicts?
The disclosure levels were different.
But at a certain age, I do believe it is very important
to share with your children about the fact
that you do have an addictive issue
because it's highly genetic.
And so this would be much like having diabetes
in your family or cancer in your family
and not sharing it with your children
because there are preventative actions that can be taken
to help decrease their chances of having it.
So in the case of substance use disorders,
it's, you know, genetics account for about 50%
the chance of developing it.
But on the really positive side, the surgeon general has
found that if you postpone substance use specifically alcohol,
to the age of 15, you decrease the chance of developing
an alcohol use disorder by 40% regardless of family history.
That's pretty significant.
And each year after that, it's about a 7% increase
in a decrease, sorry, in chance.
So the conversation really doesn't have to focus on,
oh my gosh, I did the craziest stuff when I was younger
and get into the war stories.
But what it can involve is that you had a loss of control
over your drinking, what that looked like,
or substance use, what that looked like, what that felt like,
so that they can also identify if and when they do try it,
that they maybe have a similar experience,
and how you can set them up for success
to possibly be a normal drinker in this world, right?
I mean, not everyone has to fear it,
but how can we have a healthy respect for it,
and how can we set our children up to understand their genetics?
So the conversation isn't just about trauma bonding
and, you know, I just want them to know really who I am.
That is part of it.
I mean, I does feel nice to have my daughter now
who's a tween, know that I drink for other reasons,
but don't drink for other reasons besides health.
But there's also pieces of it that's been
an education process with my daughter.
-
Is there an appropriate age to bring that conversation up?
-
I think there's a particular age that feels comfortable
for each person.
I noticed, and I really listed off in the chapter
around different stages.
I remember just listing off all the varying responses
that I got from parents and recovery
because I realized there isn't an answer of what age,
but I do, I would say, like, as a therapist,
I would recommend that by the time that alcohol and substances
become part of the landscape in your child's life
through school and through the community,
that they have some understanding of their family history
and some prevention strategies.
- So it looks like that there is a mentality shift
that has to take place in your own thinking
as you're talking to with your kids.
And you reveal that the secret of that really
is the generational component, addressing it that way.
And so that brings the issue very much to the present tense.
Am I understanding that correctly?
- Yes, that's really an interesting take on it.
And I think that there's my recovery pride chapter
is really something that I just can't speak highly enough
the concept of having pride for being in recovery,
but there is baked in to our past use and past debauchles
that we had.
Most people have those kinds of stories from their past use.
There is shame around that.
And also there's a fear I know from a lot of parents
that if I share these things with my children
that they're gonna think that they're acceptable
or they're gonna get ideas.
That isn't always the truth.
In fact, a lot of children have the opposite response
where some of them, some parents got sober after they became parents.
So their children already saw some of the behaviors.
And so when they got into recovery,
their children were relieved
and this was a source of pride in their family.
For others, it was the thing in the past
and the child would have never known it to happen
or it was in the really early years
when they didn't have much of a memory.
So some of the stories are cautionary tales for children,
but I think you also have to gauge the temperament
of your child and are they risk takers?
Are they impulsive?
Are they risk averse?
Are they, you know, do they listen and process
and really, you know, and do they learn or are they rebellious?
Like I think some of it's a personal choice
and really an assessment of your own child
of what, you know, what you choose to share.
- What are some of the ways that dads listening
can cope with fear, stress, anxiety,
without resorting to an addiction to numb?
- Well, that is the million dollar question, right?
And stress is therefore the entire world.
It's not just here for people with substance use disorders
and addictive behaviors.
But what it is is that we all have turned
to a more maladaptive, maladaptive is the term I use for it,
a more of a maladaptive coping.
So how do we turn that around?
And it takes time.
First of all, I think people are going to experience cravings
when they increase in their stress level
or whatever it was, the prompt that was leading them
to engage in the substance use.
But some of it is gradual and over time.
I do think that social support and the self-help meetings
that are now so readily available since the pandemic
because things have gone virtual and in person, you know,
you have both.
There's so much at our fingertips for social support.
So I would say one of the things is really finding
a group of men and or men and women in a self-help group
that you can connect to, that you can vent to
and have a release.
It's like the balloon starts to fill up
and you need to be able to let the air out
and do that in a safe environment.
I do find in particular for, and I'm, again, generalizing
for men that more extreme exercise seems to be something
that I don't know if it's hormonal-edriven,
but it seems to be something that a lot of men in recovery
are drawn to and that has really been a key component
for them in their recovery.
There are certainly some women that would have a test
to that as well, but I see it in a more extreme way with men.
I also think that the spiritual component can also
be a great add-on.
There's also the need for your family to have an understanding
and adapt and the family system to itself have a parallel
recovery process if your spouse isn't in recovery
or if you're single, to have some level of understanding.
And that's another reason why in some ways,
the disclosure of being in recovery is also a discussion
around the need for self-care as a parent with your child.
Because if it's not baked in, again,
as part of your family system and part of your lifestyle,
then you start to feel guilt or people give you a hard time.
But my daughter only knows me as a person that needs certain
downtime, certain self-care things.
That's all she knows about me.
She's never known me to not have those needs.
And so again, it can become part of that culture in your family
and part of your lifestyle.
It has to start slowly, but it really is possible.
And I've seen many men transform their lives.
And I've also seen amazing stories of men who
had children when they were using and then children in recovery
and had completely different experiences.
And it's really a beautiful thing to see.
You use the term parent in recovery
as if it's an ongoing thing.
I mean, is that term really ever expire?
Or are you always in recovery?
I do identify as a person in long term recovery.
But it is-- and I do believe, and I do
feel, with the amount of time I have in recovery,
that it's still something that I have to actively work on.
And it comes in different forms, but it doesn't mean
that suddenly I'm cured.
And I can just behave and do what everybody else does.
As far as my thinking that I could also go pick up a substance
and because I've been sober for 20 years, be fine,
I've proven that to be wrong over and over again
prior to my getting sober.
I would take breaks from drinking and I would go back
and I would have exactly the same experience.
So I know as a fact that if I picked up now,
nothing would be different.
If not, actually, it probably would have progressed and be worse.
So yes, I believe it's an ongoing process.
I also believe that recovery is a growth opportunity.
And so the recovery process, it gives us a launching pad
to grow in different ways that we were all
stunted when we were in active addiction.
How can cell phones or other digital devices
get in the way of living a sober lifestyle?
It's such a part of our lives.
And it also has addictive qualities.
And so there's been a lot of research and a lot of work
by some amazing researchers, the work of Ann Lemke,
Dopeamine Nation, and just a lot of discussion
around the impact on young minds,
on the dopamine priming effect, and how people
that have addictive behaviors can also
be more prone to have more of an addictive relationship
with their phone and vice versa, where I also
talk to my daughter around electronic usage
from the perspective of actually from the perspective
of addiction.
So I talk about the effect on the brain.
I talk about how the movie The Social Delama is brilliant.
And I think even just the first half of it
is really appropriate for tweens and teens, really
educational and helps them to understand
that we're not just being nags, and we're not just trying
to give them a hard time, but that there's some basis
for why there are some limits and boundaries with phones.
But I think adults have their own reckoning
because these apps, in social media apps, are designed.
And that's a lot with that movies about.
They're designed specifically to give us a dopamine hit
every time we get a like, and every time we get feedback,
and every time there's a notification.
So again, there's a lot of crossover
between the parts of the brain that get set off
by addictive behaviors and our phones.
So I think there's a million strategies
which are discussed in the book both for ourselves,
as parents and recovery, and also for what
we can support our children with because it's a two-prong experience.
And really, there are so many strategies,
but I think it's important to be aware of our own relationship
to our phone, what our weak spots are with it.
Are there cleanses that we need to take from particular apps?
It's a necessary evil for work, and we can't unrealistically
remove our email and our text and just be missing.
But at the same time, do we have parameters and limits
we can separate ourselves and actually stick to them?
That's those are questions we have to ask ourselves.
There's also the other impact of social media
and seeing how everyone is advertising
and being their own PR agent around their lives,
and there can be this fear of missing out or phomo,
especially for people in early recovery who are not
going to some of those social events,
but yet have to have them in their face.
So some of this is a self-induced torture that we do
by staring at what's going on in other people's lives
when maybe we need to keep it a little bit more focused
on our own.
How can dads listening now learn more about you?
Get counseling or get your book, Parents in Recovery.
Well, my website is Bentonbhc.com,
and I have information and resources there.
I also highly recommend finding a therapist
with addiction experience.
It is a specialization.
It's not something every therapist is trained to do.
So I think that Psychology Today has a wonderful directory
and can point people sometimes in the right direction.
Also, I encourage you to contact your insurance company
and try to look up therapists by specialization.
As far as social media, I've started a Parents in Recovery
Facebook group.
It's called the Family, sorry Parents in Recovery Support Group,
and it is a Facebook group.
I also have LinkedIn with Sarah Allen Benton and Facebook,
but I really appreciate feedback.
My email is on my website,
and I really love getting readers feedback.
It really makes it worth it.
And also if people are looking for support in different areas,
I also like to help people to sometimes find resources
in different parts of the country.
And just to make things easier,
if you go to thefatherhachallenge.com,
that's thefatherhachallenge.com.
If you go to this episode,
look right below the episode description.
I will have all of the links that Sarah mentioned there,
posted right in the description for your convenience.
And Sarah as we close,
speak to that dad that has tried to become sober
and free of addiction, but is discouraged
and feeling defeated.
- Well, I think that there's many people
that have been in your spot.
I've known many people that have either relapsed
or never really gotten it and been able to commit to sobriety.
And it's important to know that there are other people
out there.
If you put your hand out,
there's going to be a hand out there for you.
There are millions, 23 million people in recovery in our country.
And we focus so much on those that aren't,
but you have to realize that there is a group of us out there
and some people are more anonymous about it than others.
So you don't always know and you'd be surprised
at how many people in your community
may also be struggling the same way that you were.
So please reach out for support.
I'm going to give some links for some of the self-help
group meetings that are out there.
There are some for, you know, males specifically
that can be really helpful.
And I really want people to know they're not alone.
- Sarah, you're here with your own story.
Being willing to share that so openly,
it takes a lot of courage.
And so I just want to thank you for coming
on the father and challenge.
- Thank you so much.
I really appreciate the opportunity.
I mean, this is the only reason I wrote this book
is to touch other lives and to find, you know, meaning and purpose
in the journey that I've had in hopefully short circuit
the process.
- Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood
Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes,
find any resource mentioned in this program
or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
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Are you ready to hear some great stories? If so, you’re in the right place. You’re going to hear true stories about how a simple vision and acts of service can change families, relationships and communities. You’ll learn powerful ways to teach your kids the value of service to others and how it can change their life.
Rodney Smith Jr. is the founder of a 501c3 organization called Raising Men & Women Lawn Care Service which provides a very inspirational program that focuses on channeling the energy that youths have in a positive way as well as helping those who need it the most.
To learn more, donate or get involved visit: https://weareraisingmen.com/about-us/
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Transcript - Servant Leadership Training
Are you ready to hear some great stories? If so, you're in the right place. You're going to hear
true stories about how a simple vision and acts of service can change families, relationships,
and communities. In just a moment, you'll learn powerful ways to teach your kids the value of
service to others and how it can change their life. So don't go anywhere. Before we begin,
I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge,
In Genius Prep. In Genius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm proud to be
officially recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants helping students
prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase
chances of admission by up to 10 times. In Genius Prep students work with former admission officers
to differentiate themselves from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.
In academics, extra curricular activities, and personal characteristics. Just this past admission
cycle, In Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers
from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools. In Genius Prep student success lies
within the fact that In Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting firm offering every service of family needs,
whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships,
the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses, and other customized
programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share
with colleges. Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call
with one of In Genius Prep's college experts or you can visit ingeniousprep.com. That's
in Genius Prep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge. Welcome to the Fatherhood
Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role,
and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of
their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you
so much for joining me. My guest is Rodney Smith, Jr. Rodney is the founder of a 501-C3 organization
called Raising Men and Women, Lawn Care Service, which provides a very inspirational program that
focuses on channeling the energy that youth have in a positive way as well as helping those in need.
Rodney, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you for having me. I really
appreciate it. Rodney, let's start with your own story, starting with how you grew up and what led
you to start Raising Men and Women, Lawn Care Service. Yeah, so, um, originally I'm from the island
of Bermuda. I came to the United States to finish my last two years of high school in a small town
called Aminia, New York. It was a small boarding school for kids with learning disabilities.
And I was there for two years and I would say the best two years of my life, one graduating from
there. I went to Fort Lauderdale, Florida because I thought I wanted to do something with computers,
so I attended ITD Tech out in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. And I was there for about six months and
during those six months, I had a hard time adjusting and just one night I just prayed to God and asked
Him to use me as a vessel. He didn't give me answer that day, not a month later, not even a year later.
It would happen a few years later and here I am in Huntsville, Alabama in my senior year of college,
getting my bachelor's in computer science. And I was leaving school one day and I came across an
elderly man outside Muingan's lawn and looked like he was struggling. So I done what anyone would do.
I pulled over and helped him out. And literally, I know that once more, the kind of was what eventually
changed my life ever. And from that day on, I started Muingan free lawns for the elderly, disabled,
single parents, and veterans in Huntsville, Alabama. With me being in school, I thought I could move
40 loans by the end of winter, moving in between classes, but I moved 40 loans so quick that I might
go to 100. I'm often half laid. I've reached my 100 floor and that's when the idea of raising men
and now raising women in the lawn care service came about. But I was still more free lawns for the
elderly, disabled, single parents, veterans, but I also include kids locally to come out and move with me.
And that kind of is the whole story on how the organization came about.
It makes sense that serving others can be a powerful experience for those who receive the service.
What exactly is it doing or teaching the one who's serving?
What's teaching the kids? The importance given back. I know growing up, my parents always
seem still to me, that it's important to give back. And I just wanted to pass that on to the next
generation because a lot of kids in this day and age, they're inside playing video games.
So I thought, hey, let's get them away from the video games and let's get them out doing something
positive in the community. And the response has been very positive. A lot of kids, they enjoy
getting out there and making a difference one lawn at a time because I know when I was a kid,
I hate mowing lawns, but God took something I dislike and turned to something I love to do. And every
single day I got to wake up and mow free lawns and in course, the next generation to give back as well.
Interesting. So you used to hate mowing lawns. Yes.
And now you've developed a real passion for it. Yes, sir.
So is it about the mowing lawns part? Is that the part that you've come to enjoy?
Or is it the result of the impact that makes the lawn mowing more enjoyable? Or is it both?
Yeah, I would say it's both because I enjoy mowing lawns now. It's therapeutic and I enjoy helping
people and making a difference and encouraging the next generation. And seeing the smiles that
were putting on the people's faces that we helped because many of them on fixed incomes.
So when we can come mow the lawn for free, then now freeze their extra funds up.
And they can get things that's really important like food and medication and stuff like that.
What are some of the creative ways that dads can raise their kids to be service centered rather
than self-centered? Just look at ways to help the community. You might have a special skill set as a
dad. You might be able to fix cars. You might be able to do something,
paint a building, paint something, or just just so many different ways to give back.
If you see a need in your community, I would say start from that and build from that and encourage
people to support you with that. My way was to make a difference of a lawn mower.
Yours might be the same or yours might be something different. But just find ways to give back
the drift because there are so many ways and there are so many people needing help.
There are people that sometimes call me about like help with removing trees. That's a big thing,
especially for the elderly here in Alabama to remove one tree out of a yard is about three to four,
five thousand dollars. So if you can find a way to give back doing that, that would be a great help
to your community. So just, yeah, I'll just encourage them just to find a way, see what the community needs
and try to fill that need. We are in a society and a culture that is just driven by making profit
by generating income. It's all about what can I get out of something? Yes. So it goes against the grain
to be a type of person that will do a big task for somebody and not expect anything in return.
Everybody is thinking that somebody wants something. So are you ever met with skepticism where
someone's like, what do you want from me? Surely you want something? This can't just be for free.
At the start of the organization, a lot of people were skeptical about this can't be for free,
but after them seeing what we were doing and found out it really is free, they start
warming up to the idea. So I don't fully come across anyone like that anymore because people see
the work that we do and if someone needs help locally, we're there and we're doing it for free.
And our goal is just to encourage others to, because we're going to be going to most of
many loans by ourselves. So to see others jump in the mission and give back as well, that's important
as well. So yeah, that was something that happened at the early stages of the organization,
but I don't really see it that much. Do you ever see that it is contagious that what you're doing
is contagious? Do you ever see it spilling over into other ways where people want to pay that
action forward? Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of this is contagious. People see what you're doing and they
want to do the same thing in their community or they want to make do something different in their
community. So it's, you know, it's like a ripple effect. You do something good, someone sees it and
hey, what he's doing, I want to do the same thing in my community. And so I've seen a lot of that,
and that's that's very good because it's such a need. I get calls from all over the country
of people asking is your organization in my city or my town? And you know, sometimes we don't have
kids that are volunteering in our program in their city. So, you know, I have to say no sometimes,
but you know, to see other people step up and take the initiative and just
see what we're doing and just doing it in their community and that's something special.
I learned a long time ago if you plan to see you can always watch it grow. So that's what we're trying
to do. Let's talk about the spiritual implications of what you're doing. Are they seeing Jesus
through what you're doing? I would hope so because, you know, this whole organization started because
of the Lord. I'm an axon to use me as a vessel. Like I said, he didn't get me answered right away,
but eventually he, he showed me what he wanted me to do. And I've been doing it every day since.
And every ever since that day, I've been doing free loans and I just asked him, I see what you want me
to do. All I ask is Lord, please help provide to this organization. And he has done that since day one.
So I hope they can see the libido of the Lord in me when I'm out there moving loans.
Even when I first started the organization, I wasn't very spiritual, but I knew that in the time of
need, there's only one place you can go and that's, you know, just pray to the Lord and that's
when I ask him to use me as a vessel. And, you know, it's amazing. It's amazing what he has done. You know,
I've seen some things happen and just like, wow, just wow, wow, wow.
Well, let's get to that. Please share some stories of some of the people and communities you and the
kids who've partnered with you have helped. How has it changed lives? And what is your own personal
testimony of how God has worked with you and how you've experienced him personally?
Yeah. So you know, a lot of the kids that they moved for, and the elderly disabled, single parents,
veterans and like just recently, there's a kid named Ken in out in Texas, Midwest City.
He came across an elderly man who's a World War II veteran who just happened to go 100 a few days ago.
And I think a home care worker reached out to his mother because they were hiring
a long care service to move his lawn and they will come every
all the week or something like that. And they were taking advantage of this veteran and they were,
you know, just skimming, skimming his grass and just, you know, taking advantage and
they were charging like $300 a month and, you know, you're a veteran, you're in a fixed income.
That was a lot of money to him. So Ken didn't heard about this gentleman and ever since he's been
moving his lawn for free and they will continue to move the lawn forever until that day comes.
So stories like that, there was a kid named Wesley Yauden, Michigan. He was a very shy,
quiet kid. And mom told me when he first started the organization, but you know, he got to get a chance
to go out in this community and meet different people and help out. And he started to become who he
was supposed to become. And he's, you know, he's open with people. He's friendly. He's talking. So there's,
you know, a lot of stories like that from different kids across the country just wanting to get
out there and make a difference. And they're meeting people. They probably normally wouldn't have met
if they weren't moving these lawns. And they're building long-lasting relationships and they always
check up. Even like the kid, Ken and who I just mentioned, there's one lady that he moves for. You
know, she became like his adopted, adopted a grandmother. They just have a special bond and this
old just came from mom or for me, you know, there's been many people that I've met during my time with
mom or the Wist's lady named Mrs. Gibbs. I probably met her in 2016 when I first started the
organization. And she became like an adopted grandmother to me. And every time I would moan her lawn,
we would sit and chat after I would get done. And we just sit on a porch and talk for hours. And,
you know, she considered me her adopted grandson. And sadly, she passed probably about two years ago.
And that really affected me because we had such a special bond. And there's like, you know, so many
stories like that of different people that I've met personally by doing this. And I also traveled
to all 50 states on different 50 state moving tours that I do. And I've met so many veterans. I've
met so many different people, you know, across my journeys. So these people become family to you.
Yeah. Has it ever united entire communities? Yeah, you could say it has united communities. You see
communities really come out and support the kids especially, you know, every time that I announced
that a kid has completed the 50 yard challenge in a certain area, you know, the community really
backs on that. I've seen like small towns really come out and support kids especially like in Idaho
and Oklahoma. We have a lot of kids in those areas. And every time I say I'm coming to to the state of Iowa
or Idaho or Oklahoma see a kid that finished the challenge, you know, they really come out and support
that kid. So you really see the community back these kids. And one thing I realized that a lot of
kids do after they finished the 50 yard challenge, they are some of them start a business and they become
entrepreneurs, but they still move free loans for those in need. So, you know, I didn't realize that
was something that was happening, but, you know, also created entrepreneurs in a way as well.
Well, that's really powerful. Let's hear some specific stories of the kids that have joined
your program. It was a kid named Andre, you know, he's one of the first kids that start the 50 yard
challenge back in 2016. It just happened, his mother just happened to see me online and see what
we're doing in Huntsville, Alabama. It was Andre and another kid named Quentin. Quentin lived in
Mary, Ohio. He's got Mother Sore, what we're doing in Huntsville, Alabama. And at the same time,
Andre's mother, so we're doing Huntsville, Alabama. And they wanted to get their kids involved with
the program. So that's when I just told them, if your son Andre can complete the 50 yard challenge,
and if your son grants on Quentin to complete the 50 yard challenge, I'll come out there and give
them a brand new more for completing it. Because that first of all was just locally in Huntsville, Alabama.
I didn't really have a tension for it to be out of state. And that summer, in 2016, Andre and Quentin
went on to complete what we call today the 50 yard challenge. And I went out there to them and I
presented them a brand new more. And they were very proud and they were going to continue to help
the community. And ever since, you know, since then, about five thousand plus kids across this country
have signed up for our 50 yard challenge. And, you know, so they were the first two that really
got the bull rolling for our organization in different states. And like I said, it has grown ever
since, we have about five thousand kids spread out the country. There also kids in eight other different
countries that are taking part. So it's not just here in the United States where kids are taking part in
our organization. It's kids around the world that are getting out there and making a difference one
loan at a time. And it's not just lawn mowing. We also include raking leaves and snowshomening as well. So
it's a year-round way for kids to give back to the community. Have you ever run into kids that have
needed a father figure or some sort of a mentor in their life? How has this program provided that
for them? Especially for the kids that came out that come out with me locally to move loans, you know,
a lot of them come from single-parent mother households. So when they can come out and become mentor
them, we can, you know, be that father figure that a lot of them are missing in their lives. So
you see them, you know, really appreciate coming out in a spending time and, you know,
being sure how to use a lot more, you know, someone checking in on them, you know, you see that
it brings a lot of them joy and happiness, you know. I'm not a father myself, but, you know,
too a lot of these kids, you know, they can, they can kind of consider me like a father figure in
their lives. That's amazing. Have you seen some of those kids go on to pay that forward and to become
mentors to somebody else as they develop and grow? Most of the kids locally,
some of them have gone on and become fathers themselves at a young age, but, you know, just to see them grow
up and, you know, take care of responsibilities and be a father to their kids. You know, they do that.
There's another kid locally here named Lamar. He just went off to college and he came from a
single-parent household and, you know, he told me how much
me mentoring him meant to him, you know, so, you know, stories like that always, you know, bring a smile to
me just knowing that I made a difference in Lamar's life. And, you know, he was our first recipient
of our scholarship fund, which we named after Miss Mary Gibbs, who I mentioned a little earlier.
So, you know, yeah, you can say you really had an impact on him. Tell me a little bit more about the
scholarship fund. Yeah, so the scholarship fund was something we started, I believe, this year,
it's in memory of Mrs. Gibbs, who I met, who was at the start of the organization, who became my
adoptive grandmother after all these years of learning her own. I just wanted to
do something special for her and her family after she passed away. And I named our first
ever scholarship fund in her memory. And the goal is to award a thousand-dollar scholarship
to kids in our program that finished a program that are going on to college, so either
they're in their senior year or, you know, they're in their first year of college. We want to help them out
and my goal is to hope that over the next few years, we can keep growing it and growing it.
And we can give even more money out to these kids that take part in our program and want to go
on to college. It doesn't have to be a four-year college. It can be a trade school because, you know,
we need, we also need people to work in different trades. So, that's important as well. So, I tell
kids, if you don't want to go to a four-year college, please consider going to a trade school and
learn a trade because we all need a skill so we can live life. Do you ever think that she could
have imagined the influence that her connection to you would have on future generations?
I do remember she done a video because I was on the Clady Clarks and she'll once. And they wanted
to interview different people that I moved for. I believe her daughter submitted a video.
And she made a nice comment. It was like a 30-second video. And she said,
I really hope that he continues on with this. So, you know, that really touched my heart. So,
I guess you can say that she saw what we were doing and it was very proud of me.
I think she very likely had a vision of its potential. And
because of her relationship with you, she had faith in you. She knew that what you were capable of.
Yes. And I think that it gave her a sense of confidence that possible yet impossible things could
be accomplished through this program. You saw that every time, you know, we have more her lawn and
when the kids will come out with me and mow her lawn, you know, she was very happy to see the kids
probably more than me. You know, she'd like to sit down with them and ask them how their day was
going, how their summer was going. And she really enjoyed that because, you know, she didn't
have too many visitors just her family. So, when the kids can come by and just sit in the porch
and we just talk, you know, it meant a lot to her. Something else that I think is fascinating
about what you're doing. When people are stressed about the necessities of life and you could
consider having keeping up your property as being a necessity, especially in some places where
there are city ordinances or there may be associations that require that and you can be reported if
you're not keeping that up. That's just if you're having trouble making ends meet, you're having trouble
financially, all of these things are adding up. That's stressful on your life and it takes up a lot
of bandwidth emotionally and it makes it very difficult for some people to be focused on connections
with others when they're just stressed about basic things of survival. Yes. And it may be due to
financial reasons that they can't keep up their property. It may be to physical reasons or both.
And so when you're coming in there and you're just taking care of that and you're freeing up
that bandwidth, I imagine you've seen people just become change. They're different people. They
come out of shells and the relationships get formed. I mean, it seems like such a small act,
but man, I can't even imagine the possible impact that it has when that person is freed up.
That little part, they were stressed over is gone. Yeah. You see that a lot because like I said earlier,
a lot of people that we move for the hourly, disabled and the fixed income. So they have to make a
decision, do I get my food and medication or do I pay someone to mo my lawn so I don't get fine by
the city. So when we can come more for free, they freeze them up of so much stress. Stress them.
Oh no, what am I going to do? So when we come more for free, they're now freezing them up and they
can get what's important to them. They can get that medication that they really need. They can get
their food so they can live for that week. So you see that it frees them up, they become
the stress free. So that's the goal. And that's the goal of the organization just to keep continue
to grow because there's so many people living paycheck to paycheck, living on a fixed income that
needs help, you know, they need it. And all goes is to find ways to help them out and expand the
organization and get more kids involved so we can help them. There's another way that you're being
very impactful and you're teaching an important value of looking out for other things to do around
your community and not waiting for the government to come in and provide that solution. A lot of people
think that that's that is the solution all of the time is that the government or some government
agency is supposed to provide services or they're supposed to solve all of the problems of the community.
And while they the government may actually play a role in that and to some degree you're paying
taxes, those taxes should be utilized to do something. But it's it's never going to be enough. It will,
the government will never be able to to provide everything that everyone in a community needs nor was
it designed to people are being taught kids are being taught. Hey, you have energy, you have two
hands, you have two feet. There's a problem over there that needs to be solved that you are able to
solve right now. Yeah. And there is no need to wait on some organization or some government
department to come in here and solve that when you can step in and just take care of it. Take
care of your neighbor, take care of your community. And if we did that, we are lightening the load on
so many other organizations. You're getting the health benefits of good exercise, good mental health
because you're connecting with your community. There's so many residual benefits to what you're doing
that go way beyond just as one simple act that you're doing. Yes, sir. Yes. And we can't like I
said, we can't wait on that government assistance. We have to take that initiative to help our
community because if you wait on the government, you don't know how long it will be waiting for.
So if you see a need, I encourage people to get out there and fulfill that need. And don't worry
about how you're going to fund that because once you start doing the work, the community will support
you so if you can come together as community and help each other, you don't have to worry about
the government because they're going to do so much. You know, we don't we don't need to rely on the
government for every single thing we need to take an initiative and we need to help our own communities
out and we can get the job done faster that way. So I encourage people, you know, see a need,
fulfill that need and get to work, you know, it's important. How can dads listening learn more
about raising men and women, lawn care service? How can they get involved and get their kids involved?
Yeah, so if you want to learn more about our organization, you can go to brrraisingman.com or
raisingman and women.com and you can go in there and simply sign your kids up. With them doing
the 50-year challenge, re-also in Courage, you know, fathers, especially, you know, do the 50-year
challenge along with your kid. That's some special bonding times. There was a grandfather that was
taking part in our 50-year challenge along with his grandkids and he told us doing that whole time
they were doing the 50-year challenge, you know, there's a moment that he cherished because otherwise
those kids would probably be inside playing video games but they were out this time, mowing lawns and
he was showing them how to use a lawnmower. So, you know, I encourage you to do the 50-year challenge
alongside with your kids so you can spend that much needy quality bonding time, special moments
that you can cherish forever. But you can learn about the 50-year challenge on our website at re-arraisingman.com or raisingmanandwomen.com.
If someone in this listening audience would like to support what you're doing financially,
is there a way they can do that? Yeah, so on our website, there's many ways to help and support
the organization by donating. They can donate funds or they can go to our Amazon whistlist. We have
lawnmower, weedies and lures because our f/d-r challenge is set up by the Courage system. Every 10 lawns,
they mow the kids mow, they got a different color t-shirt so they style a white t-shirt. Once they
mow 10, they get an orange, 20-year-uns of green, 30-of-blue, 40-year red, and 50 lawns turns
up black and then once they mow 50, free lawns in the community, we get them a brand new mow, weedied and
blower which come from my Amazon whistlist. So, people go on there and they just buy those items and
they're sent to us and then every time a kid completes the 50-year challenge, I personally get
in my van and I drive for them and they present them these items. So, if they want to learn how to donate,
they can just go to the website and there's many different ways to donate.
Rodney, as we close, what is your challenge to Dad's listening now?
My challenge to you is you know, find a way to make the world a better place. There are so many people
that need help with so many different things. I encourage you to look around your community and if
you see a need, try to fulfill that need. We go all make a difference for me. I've chosen the
lawnmower to make a difference with and encouraging kids. You can find a need in your community and
you can encourage a community support you but get back so just find that need and let's
let's stand together and let's make a difference. Rodney, it has been an honor to hear your story
and for you to come on the program and share what you've done and how you've impacted the community
and how so many others are doing the same. Thank you so much for encouraging Dad's in this audience.
No problem. Thank you guys for having me on today. I really appreciate it.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to
contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more
information about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
This episode is specifically for dads who have kids or work with kids who have trauma, issues, behavior challenges and attachment issues. If you’re looking for help or guidance in these areas, I’ve brought a guest whose approach is rooted in empathy, understanding, and evidence-based techniques, creating a space where parents can learn and grow together.
Ryan North joins me in this episode. Ryan together with his wife are a team who founded One Big Happy Home, a platform that provides valuable resources and support to parents, churches and schools. They also have a passion for working with foster parents because out of their six children, four joined their family through adoption from the foster care system.
You can learn more about Ryan and Kayla North, One Big Happy Home, get coaching, listen to their podcast or sign up for their parenting boot camp at:
https://www.onebighappyhome.com/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: htCreate your podcast today! #madeonzencastr
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Transcription - Wisdom From a Dad of Six
This episode is specifically for dads who have kids or work with kids who have trauma issues,
behavioral challenges, and attachment issues.
If you're looking for help or guidance in these areas, I brought a guest whose approach
is rooted in empathy, understanding, and evidence-based techniques.
He will join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood
Challenge, Ingenious Prep.
Ingenious Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized
as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions
to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission
by up to 10 times.
Ingenious Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves
from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.
In academics, extracurricular activities, and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle, Ingenious Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy
League schools, 268 offers, from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
Ingenious Prep students' success lies within the fact that Ingenious Prep is an all-in-one
consulting firm offering every service of family needs, whether it be test prep,
tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership, and innovation
lab, soft skills courses, writing courses, and other customized programs to develop their
application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Ingenious
Prep's College experts.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Ryan North.
Ryan and Kayla are a husband and wife team who founded one big, happy home, a platform that
provides valuable resources and support to parents, churches, and schools.
They also have a passion for working with foster parents because out of their six children,
four, joined their family through adoption from one foster care system.
Ryan, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thanks for having me.
Okay, so this is one of my favorite parts of the program, and that is our traditional
dad joke.
So Ryan, what is your favorite dad joke?
What is a ninja's favorite drink?
Hmm, I know I haven't heard this one before.
What?
It doesn't get more original than that.
I absolutely love that joke.
Let's start with your story about your journey of educating families and caretakers about
trauma, behavior changes, and attachment issues.
And where did you get your journey as a foster parent?
Where does this all fit into your story?
When my wife and I got married and we started discussing, you know, what our family might
look like in the future, it turns out that both of us had a connection through our families
to adoption, foster care.
She had had a grandparent who'd been a foster parent.
She now actually has a cousin who's a foster parent.
And my dad was raised by his aunt and uncle in what we were today called a kinship, a kinship
placement.
Of course, in the mid-1950s, no such term existed, right?
And so he was raised by his aunt and uncle, the only grandparents I have ever known were
his aunt and uncle.
And so that kind of has always been an undercurrent in both of our families.
And so we were pretty pleased to discover in the other person that they had a connection
to adoption, foster care, and it was something that we had both thought about coming to our
marriage.
Before we grew our family, we decided to take a trip to South Africa that's where I'm from.
And we spent three weeks in the country touring around, you know, having my wife meet the family
and thought, you know, that'd be great to make that international trip without any kids.
And so on our last day in Cape Town, we took a boat ride out to Sea of Ireland.
If you want to know what that is, watch the air, jaws, episode of Shark Week.
It's filmed out there.
And on this boat rides about 30 minutes out, 30 minutes back, there's this group of eight
kids from a local orphanage, and all of them had physical handicaps.
And so some kids in wheelchairs, some kids had crutches, some were walking with assistance,
and they had these two ladies who were taking care of these eight kids.
And we were sitting at the back of the boat by these kids, and on the way back, they were
singing these songs.
And they had so much joy.
And from my perspective, I'm like, you're growing up in an orphanage, you have disabilities.
And so from my perspective, and so I think it's always important to realize that our perspective
isn't necessarily the accurate one, at best, it's just the way we view things.
From my perspective, I'm like, if I was in that position, I don't know if I'd be singing,
but these kids have folded some old joy, it moved us so much that actually took out the
camcorder because back then, there were no smartphones.
We got the camcorder and video, these kids singing.
And we got in the car, my wife and I looked at each other and we said, I think we're supposed
to adopt first.
So we came back, got licensed as foster parents, with foster parents about 10 years, at 30
kids throughout home in the 10 years, we have six children, four of those were adopted from
the foster care system and two biome.
So that's our foster care journey.
In the midst early on in that, a book called The Connected Child was published by a Karen
Purvis and Debate Cross.
And TCU had just started developing its TBR protocols.
And so these protocols within transferred and organized and presented in a way that moms
and dads could learn them and do them at home.
When they piloted that program, Kaelin and I were invited to be part of that.
And we got to meet Karen Purvis in the midst of all of that and get to know her and work
with her a little bit.
Our now almost 20 year old daughter was part of a neurotransmitter study.
And so the reason I point that out because we learned these things, they tested all the
chemicals, everything good was too low, everything bad is too high.
And so they asked us to parent her exclusively with these principles in mind for a year.
And we did.
We tested and everything was back in balance.
And so I've seen the data.
I can see on a chemical level, a person changes if you interact with them as a, wow, with
the building, every strong relationship as the primary filter through which you interact
with them.
I've seen that.
So that was really helpful for us to see the data on that.
And so, you know, whether you came to our family through adoption, foster care, or
biologically, everybody's parent are the same at our house.
And so we've seen it work.
And now that the kids are in high school, got it, got one is working, one who just started
college and then a couple in high school, then a couple in middle school.
But the high schoolers recently, and then my 19 year old, both of them recently told
my wife, you know, I'm starting to realize that you guys aren't like other people's parents.
And my wife said, okay, well, what do you mean?
And she said, yeah, my friends' parents are really punitive with them.
They're not really involved.
They're not very interested in them.
So but you guys are different.
And so, you know, if you want to just bless my heart and my wife's heart, tell us that
one because after doing this faithfully for, you know, the last 16 or 17 years now to hear
that our kids say, hey, we feel like our lived experience is different and a better one than
our peers really blesses us because in the midst of all of that, there's no permissive
parenting.
You know, there are boundaries.
There are, there's everything that you might imagine.
But even all of those things are set in the best interests of my child.
And it kind of consequence that is imposed upon them.
So a logical consequence is set with this isn't meant to harm them.
This isn't meant to teach them I mean charge.
This is meant for their formation and growth into the adults they were always supposed
to be.
Most dads, including myself, have been guilty of yelling at their kids because well, our
kids aren't listening.
Are there better ways to get their attention other than yelling?
Yes.
My wife and I, one of the things we tell parents when we were parents is this is one of
our mantras, you have to be the world's leading expert in your children.
And what I mean by that secondarily is you have to be the world's leading experts in each
one of your children because they're individuals, they're different people.
And particularly for for families who are, who have adopted or are currently fostering
or are in the midst of kinship placements, kinships may be a little bit different because,
presumably, a some percentage of the time those kids are biological relatives of yours,
not all the time, but, but a lot of times it is grandma racing, raising your grandkids.
That's a pretty common scenario in kinship.
So there is a little bit of that biological connection.
So you have some insight into their tendencies, but if you're raising kids who were not born
to your family, then, then, then their biological tendencies will not be as obvious as a parent.
So you have to pay attention to your kids like we, we, we teach courses and we have these
parent detective logs that we walk people through.
I think you should have notebooks on your children, you should know, are they mourning
people, are they evening people?
What, what unsettles them?
What, what helps them regulate?
What kind of foods they like?
What are the tendencies in relationship?
All those kinds of things because you have to parent the child you have, not the child you
want.
So that's the basic framework, how, how we approach, how we approach things.
So does that mean that there's some sort of a epigenetic or generational component to
that tendency?
So there's this verse in the gospel, John, so you mentioned epigenetics, right?
So this is verse, so this is verse in the gospel of John, where Jesus says, the son can
do nothing.
He has not yet seen the father did.
Now, now while parenting is not mentioned in that verse, I will tell you that it is the
most condemning piece of parenting I've ever read in the scriptures.
No, it's getting, yes.
Right, I mean, like, let's, let's, let's extrapolate.
The daughter can do nothing.
She has not seen her mother do first.
Right.
And so, so that's, that's troubled me for a long time, that idea.
And so I come from Yellers.
My dad's Yellers, he's for brothers, Yellers, my mother's Yellers, all of her 11 siblings,
Yellers, they married people, Yelled and side-grip in a very loud environment.
My programed response is to, to, to, to Yell.
Well, so a couple of things happened, happened in, um, to help break that habit in me.
Number one is that I reckon that's my, I can recognize that's my condition, response
from my childhood in the family I grew up in.
Number two, my wife and I, um, are believers in the couples should have mentors and
the couples should on occasion go and visit a counselor.
You like, you know, in the same way that you'll take your call for an oil change, I think
you have to think about your relational health in the same way.
We're sitting with this counselor one time and he says to us, Hey, do either of you ever
Yell when the other, like, raise your volume when the other one's talking?
Yes.
Do either of you, uh, interrupt the other one?
Yes.
He said, you know why you do?
And I'm like, um, I mean, I thought because I was just tired of listening or I had
just heard enough that I felt like I had enough information from her that I could counter
it.
And he said, it's because you're trying to assert your dominance.
Right.
That's why you yell over people.
It's an aggressive, um, it's an aggressive way to assert your dominance.
So, so one of the things that we believe in our family is that is that a lot of parenting
is compliance driven.
But, but I don't want compliance.
I mean, I'd like compliance, but, but compliance isn't the goal.
Connections the goal, relationships the goal.
And if we work on that part and people know that the, the, the Jew are kind and welcoming,
like our kids will come and talk to us about stuff that will make, make a lot of people
just freak out.
And we've trained ourselves to, does ourselves to respond with, um, with calmness whenever
anything unsettling is told to us because we recognize that if we don't respond with calmness,
they're not going to come to us.
Well, if you yell, they're pretty quickly going to learn that's not a safe person for me to
speak to.
And so, and so we have trained ourselves because I'm not trying to assert dominance over my
children.
I want my children to know that I'm always on their side and I'm always working for their
good.
And yes, do I raise my voice?
Absolutely.
Would they say, I'll sometimes absolutely.
I'm not trying to tell you I'm betting a thousand.
My betting average is higher than it used to be once I realized why I did that, how it was
impacting my children and then I chose to do it less.
So, so I would assume that some percentage of the people listening to this conversation
have coached sports.
It's whether it would it be, you know, little league youth sports, um, everything, right?
So I coach, I coached a lot of youth soccer in my life, but I also spent eight seasons
as a high school varsity coach, which coach coaching high school boys was one of my favorite
things I ever did because they actually have the physical ability to do the things you're
asking them to do while at the same time having the cognitive ability to understand what you're
asking them to do, right?
In middle school, some of that's colliding, but, but in high school, particularly with the,
you know, the 11th and 12th grade boys, they really are able and as such, their performance
is greatly improved and they're also, uh, the, the games is more fun to watch.
But one thing I learned with coaching high school boys is you have to now back to become
in the league world's leading expert in your child.
You have to become an expert in your players because some kids respond when the coach yells
at them in front of others on the sidelines.
Some kids respond when the coach yells at them in private, some kids respond when coach
looks them in the eye and is calm with his instructions and correction.
Some prefer it if you stand next to them and don't make eye contact.
And so as a coach, I had to learn these things in order to get the best out of my players
or set another way in order to help them reach their potential.
And I think that parenting is a lot of things and one of the things that I firmly believe
it is is helping your kids reach their God-given potential.
And so if, if I can keep my eye on the prize because that's different than I need you to
comply with my wishes and demands in the moment, that will always be that no matter what's
happening in this moment, I always have what's best for you in the future in mind.
Let's talk about attachment issues.
First, what does that even mean?
And what are the signs that somebody or a child has attachment issues?
And what should a dad do to respond to it?
There is a clinical definition of attachment.
But the Ryan definition of attachment is it's a measure of the strength of relationship
between two people.
So there are adult attachment interviews that you can do a full adult attachment interview
that I think is like kind of $3,000 to do that.
Or there are some adult attachment quizzes you can take online and they'll give you some
sort of makeup of your styles.
They're securely attached.
And so we have infant attachment styles and then we have adult attachment styles.
There's one secure style and three insecure styles.
The reason we don't have teen attachment styles is because teenagers based on the enormous
hormonal changes that they're all experiencing going through puberty and then just the years
after puberty.
And then being around people who have the same hormonal things going on at the same time,
they all tend to present with insecure attachment styles because of that.
So we don't measure, we don't measure teen attachment.
But adult attachment is secure means that you are, that's the gift of your childhood or
there is earn secure which means that's the result of the work he did as an adult.
And then there's dismissing entangled which are tied for second place.
There's not, I wouldn't say there's one of those that's better than the other.
Although if you're an entangled person, is it living with a dismissive person, you might
suggest the dismissive is worse and vice versa, but it's not.
And then there is disorganized which is as bad as it sounds.
So what happens is if you have a caregiver that meets your needs, baby cries, adult response,
needs, baby learns that they can adults can be trusted, baby learns that they have, the
voice has power, that's really good.
But there are a lot of kids who are just left in their curbs who are left to cry it out,
which is likely some of the worst parenting advice of the last 50 years in my humble opinion.
Because what it does is it creates an insecure attachment style in the child because the child
learns when I cry for help, nobody comes to help me.
And so what that means is that over time they will not ask for help.
Now here's why that's important because when let's just pretend I have a teenage son, he's
16 years old.
He goes to a party, there is alcohol at this party and he chooses to drink, he chooses to
drink, slash the peer pressure, whatever you want to say, right?
I need him to call me and tell me, Dad, I need you to come get me, I can't drive.
Instead of saying, I can't ask anybody for help, I'm going to drive home intoxicated because
the ramifications for yourself and others is potentially enormous if you get behind
the wheel drunk.
This is why you want to secure attachment style with your child, but I would say that the
easiest way to build that strong secure attachment is just to be kind and meet your children's
needs when they have them.
And so, you know, we learn to, we teach people to say, look, you're a couple of choices, we
got to move forward, you can do A or B. We teach people to say, hey, train your children
to say, I know you asked me for something, but can I ask for something different?
Now at our house, we, we do say, I can't always say yes, but I can't always listen and I will
entertain what you have asked me.
And even in that, they, they feel valued because you listened to their words, right?
In our home, what we have done is we've created an environment where our children know that
their thoughts and feelings matter to their mother and father.
And as a result, they've had enormous positive gains, right?
We can talk about clinical things, we can talk about bubbly, we can talk about all that
stuff, but at the end of the day, the practical application of the things we've learned has
been the most important because they've made positive change in our family.
And so when we speak to any kind of audience, whether it be parents, churches, schools, child
placing, agency, leadership, any of that, you know, we do this confluence of the things
we've learned, the practical application of those things and how we've seen it.
And so we've seen positive change as a result of them.
It really sounds like we're back to the basics of where we started with this conversation.
And that is the relational element, the importance of the relationship.
So if the kids are doing something wrong and they know it's wrong, they know that they
messed up, but they are okay calling you anyway for help.
That is the win.
That is the ultimate win.
What can I give you an example of that?
Yes, yes, please.
So our now 16 year old daughter, when among us was like the trendy game for kids to play
three or four years ago, she was probably a 12 or 13 when this happened.
And so we were not wise in this, in that she, we gave her an iPhone when she was 12.
You know, you can get more lockdown versions of phones for teenagers now.
And this event sort of opened our eyes to that.
So she's playing among us.
And so my wife says, okay, you guys can play that because you know, she's read some of the
things that moms are saying online, online about some of the dangers of it.
And so she says, okay, we can form like a closed group with, with, with our kids, your siblings,
your friends in the neighborhood and some of your cousins.
And so they all agree they set up this group.
They're playing among us together.
Well, that's not good enough for her.
So she wanders off into like the free play internet version of this thing.
And she's a really empathetic person.
And the worst thing that my daughter can imagine is anybody feeling left out.
So she gets a message from a young, I'm going to say young man in air quotes, a middle school
Tina, a middle school girl, having anxiety about feeling left out is likely one of the
most common anxiety triggers in middle school girls, right?
And so, and so he plays in that and he says, well, you know, he's an artist and he doesn't
have any friends.
And so she kind of bites us, oh, I'm so sorry.
And she's really empathetic.
And now she's given him a response.
And this goes back and forth.
And then he asks, well, can they, can they email each other instead of just messaging while
they're playing the game?
She consents to this.
Then he says, can I have your phone number?
I'd like to text you.
And at this point, she now knows that maybe this is a little dodgy, but because of the relationship
we've built, because we have acted in her best interest always.
She comes to me and she says, dad, I need to tell you something I did that I wasn't supposed
to.
I said, all right, baby, what's up?
And she tells the story.
And so I don't chastise her for disobeying us because for me, the one is that she came to
us.
And so I said, okay, baby, give me your phone.
And I go through the phone.
I read the text messages from this person.
I call a friend of mine who lives in New Jersey.
She had worked with an anti-trafficking organization up in the Northeast.
And I said, I said, we need to tell you a story.
And so also our friend Allison.
So we tell her the story and she says to my daughter, that is following the script of grooming young
women to meet so they can be taken and trafficked.
And so this freaks my daughter out rightfully so.
And so I take her phone and I do something that in retrospect, probably was too soon in
this.
I text back and I say, you know, I just, I just feel really lonely.
At home, is there any way we could meet?
And so the communication goes silent.
And so I tell that to my friend Allison and she said, yeah, that's a pretty typical parent
response.
And when they get that, they cut bait and they're done.
But the point of that whole story is that she was being groomed by somebody who, if we had
not found out when she told us, likely in a couple of more communications, he would
have suggested that they meet in the park.
But because we'd worked so hard on the relationship with her and had parented her in a way that she
understood was in her best interest, she came to us when she realized that this was getting
south.
And so I always tell that story as a great reminder of that in the moment, you might not see
the progress that you'd like to see.
And in the moment, the moment may last longer than you want because you're working on
connecting rather than compliance.
But in the long term, you're going to see the results because parenting is some version
of oceans 11.
It's you have to play the long game.
And the moment is not as important as the future.
On your Facebook page, you said that when you welcomed your children that from that day
till their last, you were in this together with them.
Tell me that story of the first time you said that and the scripture reference that inspired
what you said.
So I wrote a book, right?
A devotional.
And so this is actually covered in devotional number one.
When I realized that was a friend of ours who was in a car accident, he was he was T-bone
in an intersection and the force to say, in fact, well, he was actually hospitalized for
several weeks and was in physical therapy for many, many months as a result of this car
accident.
But in the midst of this, before the paramedic survive, he's trapped in the car.
So he's in pain and then the adrenaline is kind of wearing obviously, realizing his pain.
He's feeling claustrophobic.
And on top of that, he can smell fuel.
And so because there is a place in the world called Hollywood, we think that every time there's
a car accident, the car explodes, right?
That's what happens in movies and TV shows.
So he's freaking out.
And the paramedics get there and they're using the jaws of life to pry the car open so they
can extract him.
And one of the five fighters, smashes, was left of the glass in the other door and climbs
into the car with him.
And he says to him, look, I know you're scared.
He said, "Well, those people out there are doing the best they can and they're good at what
they do.
But here's my, here's my promise to you.
I'm not leaving this car until you've left this car."
So we're getting out of this together or we're dying together.
But what happens next will happen to both of us.
And my friend said that he, he was a friend/mentor really because he's probably about 20 years
older than me.
And he said, "When I heard him say that, calmness washed over my spirit.
Because we can do amazing, lead difficult things if we are doing them together."
So I started thinking about that and in the book of Ruth, Naomi says to Ruth, "I will go,
you go, your people are my people, your God is my God and she links their lives together
and that their destiny is now the same from this day forward."
And so we have shift our perspective at this point when this happened to our friend and
he told me the story from, "We didn't welcome our kids into our home.
We climbed into the car with our kids.
We're the firefighter who chose to climb into the car."
And so now that changes my perspective about everything because it means I am here to help
you not that you have to adapt to fit into our home.
How can dads listening learn more about what you're doing, get coaching or listen to
your podcast?
So if you go to onebighappyhome.com and just scroll just a little bit down on the homepage is
a picture of me and Kayla with our tagline.
But just below that, there you can get to the podcast, you can get your coaching, their
stuff working with churches, working with agencies.
And then we also have a dad's group called Foundations in Fatherhood and we run them a couple
of times a year.
So if you scroll down a little bit past those major categories of work you do, there's
like a featured article thing and you can click on that and you can join.
And so we advertise it as a parenting bootcamp meaning that we cover a lot of ground in a
short amount of time.
I'm going to post all of the links in the episode description for your convenience.
So if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com, go to this
episode, look right below the episode description and all of the links mentioned will be posted
there for your convenience.
Well Ryan, as we close, what is your final challenge to dad's listening now?
Number one, be more involved.
Do not reduce yourself to provider, protector and chauffeur like some of us do.
Be present.
Let your wife know that you are her co-parent if you're married.
And let your kids know that you are there for them.
And in the midst of all of that, do the work to figure out why you react the way you
do.
And all of our work, one of our goals is to try to help parents move from reacting to respond.
Instead of being triggered by your reflexes and emotions rather to cognitively respond
from your prefrontal cortex.
But in order to do that, you have to figure out why you do things the way you do.
So ask yourself the hard questions because I promise you, there is great freedom and
growth on the other side of doing the work.
Ryan, I have learned so much from you.
I know the audience has as well.
It's been an honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you so much for coming on the program.
Well, thanks for reaching out Jonathan.
There's a lot of fun visiting with you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Every man was created with an identity and purpose, that means you. But if life has broken you and robbed you of your identity and purpose, I’m here to tell you that finding this episode is not an accident and that is proof that it’s not too late to find who you are and what you were created for! This is your chance! Listening to this episode is the first step towards wholeness and life changing transformation.
My guest is licensed professional counselor Chris Bruno. Chris is an author of several books and the founder of The Restoration Project. The Restoration Project is all about Rediscovering the man you were made to be, and bringing your restorative presence to your world. And if his name sounds familiar on this program it’s because he’s made an appearance on two other episodes and now I’ve brought him back a 3rd time because his insights are so valuable.
To learn more about The Restoration Project or purchase books visit: https://www.restorationproject.net/
To receive counseling from ReStory visit: https://www.restory.life/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
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Transcript - Your True Identity and Purpose
Every man was created with an identity and purpose.
That means you, but if life has broken you
and robbed you of your identity and purpose,
I'm here to tell you that you are not listening
to this episode by accident, and that is proof
that it's not too late to find out who you are
and what you were created for.
This is your chance.
Listening to this episode is the first step
towards wholeness and life-changing transformation.
I have a guest here who will walk you through the next steps
in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor
of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge,
ingenious prep.
Ingenious prep is the world's premier admissions consulting
firm, proud to be officially recognized
as the country's top college admissions consultants,
helping students prepare for admissions
to top schools through individualized educational programs
that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times.
ingenious prep students work with former admission officers
to differentiate themselves from other competitive students
in three areas, colleges evaluate students
in academics, extra curricular activities
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Just this past admission cycle ingenious prep students
have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools,
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ingenious prep student success lies within the fact
that ingenious prep is an all in one consulting firm
offering every service of family needs,
whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy,
building mentorship, academic mentorships,
the leadership and innovation lab,
soft skills courses, writing courses
and other customized programs to develop their application
persona to the most effective and authentic extent
to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description
to book a free strategy call with one of ingenious
prep's college experts.
Or you can visit ingeniousprep.com.
That's ingeniousprep.com and let them know
you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,
a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society
to understand how important fathers are
to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is licensed professional counselor Chris Bruno.
Chris is an author of several books
that we'll talk about shortly
and he's also the founder of the Restoration Project.
The Restoration Project is all about rediscovering
the man you were made to be
and bringing your restorative presence to the world.
And if his name sounds familiar on this program,
it's because he's made an appearance on two other episodes
and now I've brought him back a third time
just because his insights are so valuable.
Chris, welcome back to the Fatherhood Challenge.
- Man, thank you so much.
It is so good to be back with you again.
- For those hearing your voice for the first time,
please share your story of how you got involved
with restoring men and fathers.
- It was really a personal journey first.
It was part of my own story as I was growing up as a young man.
I was living overseas in international ministry.
I was giving leadership to a team of a bunch of young men.
I was married and then I produced a child of my own,
my own son and it was kind of in that moment of recognizing
like do I have internally everything that is being asked
of me externally?
Do I have the reserves, the sense of identity,
the sense of my well-being, the sense of who I am
to be able to offer leadership and guidance
and to these young men I was working with,
the students I was working with,
and then mostly my own son.
I wanted to make sure that I was the father
that he needed me to be.
And so that's really what began my journey is for me.
And then as I did it, I started to look around
and other guys were like, what are you doing?
How is this like, and really wanted to train myself
and get into the work of helping other guys do this
because I firmly believe that when men are restoring themselves,
I don't wanna stay restored
'cause I don't think it's ever a finished process
here on earth.
But when we are in the process of becoming restorative men,
the world actually shifts and changes.
So that's kinda how I get into it.
It's my own personal journey.
- What is so important about fathers understanding
their identity and purpose?
And how is their story woven into both?
- I believe that for us men, if we are disconnected
and unprepared for the journey of manhood,
then what will end up happening is that we will,
either wander through life, kind of blind,
not knowing what to do, trying to figure it out,
or we will barge through life like a, you know,
bull in a china shop and there will be debris all around us.
Either way, if we are absent or in that case, violent, right?
Then we're not serving the world around us.
We're not actually the men that we were designed to be.
So when men have that sense of identity and purpose,
when men have a sense of like, this is who I am
and this is why I am.
Those two things combined that actually create such
a brilliant impact on the world around us.
Who we are is designed to be part of the greater story
of the world around us.
And, you know, your question is, you know,
how is our story woven into both of those things?
Well, our story is actually the story of our identity
and of our worth, of our purpose, why we're here.
So who we are is written into the code of our being,
into our brains, into our spirit, into our soul.
That is who we were designed to be.
And therefore, as a result, it is the story that,
that we were meant to tell.
The issue is that so much of the world,
broken fallen, you know, that it is impacts us.
And so we come to believe a different story.
We don't believe that we're actually meant to be something
important or have an identity, like I just mentioned.
We start to believe a lesser story, a smaller story,
one that is actually unworthy of us,
but that's the one that we come to believe.
And so the work that I'm all about is helping us
actually return to what I call the first story,
the story where you were designed and intended
in the way that you were instead of the second story,
the one that you've come to believe about yourself
as a result of the tragedies, traumas, brokenness,
relationships that have gone awry,
all the things that have happened in your life
that make you believe something less than.
I like how you talk about your purpose and identity
written as a code into your being, into who you are.
Not even hence, he knew us before we were born.
Scrolls are written about your purpose,
the tears that you would cry and why you would cry them
are all written, one of my favorite,
and I challenge you to go read it for yourself,
but Psalm 139.
- And I love the combination of both identity and purpose,
and because I feel like those are two things
that are very, we send it like,
we tend to separate those into two separate categories,
who am I and what am I supposed to do?
But I actually believe that they're very interwoven
together almost like two sides of the same coin.
And that I love you just referred to Psalm 139,
one of the places I often go in the scriptures
is to Ephesians chapter two,
where Paul is talking about how we are the masterpiece,
the handiwork of God.
-
I love that.
-
That we are the masterpiece, meaning that in order
for the master to start painting your masterpiece,
he had to know who you were first,
and then he painted that purpose, that identity into you,
and actually the root word there is, is, "Polema,"
he pooted those things into you.
And so when we think about purpose,
well, what is my purpose in life?
What am I supposed to do?
I actually believe every man's purpose is to be a restorative man
in the world that God has placed him.
And that may be like,
occupationally something different from me or you or whoever,
but occupation is not purpose, vocation, voice,
who you are, the Latin root of that is vocare.
Like, what is the voice that you were meant to bring?
That always is to be restorative, partnering with God
in the restoration of the world.
That is his call for all of us.
And your unique placement in wherever you are,
whatever you do, whatever family you have,
you have a purpose,
and that purpose is to be restorative.
The two top enemies of a father believing is shame
and unworthiness.
How does a dadlessity now that is experiencing that shame
and that is keeping them from believing
their true identity and purpose that God created in the meat?
How do they shed that?
Shame is not original.
Sin is original, but shame is not.
That, you know, we talk about in, you know,
that we know that we are fallen beings
as we come into the world as a result of the fall in Genesis
that we are fallen.
We have original sin and yet there is not original shame
that is not part of the story.
We learn shame.
We learn how to be in an experience of shame
because the message of shame is that there is something wrong
with you.
The message of sin is that you've done something wrong,
but the message of shame is that there is something
intrinsically wrong with you.
And that there couldn't be something more anti-biblical than that,
right?
What do we just talk about?
I just mentioned like you are on masterpiece.
There is something about you.
Psalm 139, "The scrolls are more true about you than you're shame."
All of the messages, all of the thinking,
all of who God made you to be,
before you even existed is more true about you than you're shame.
And so the process of shedding shame is a journey.
It is identifying what it is,
is identifying where it showed up.
Shame is always rooted in the context of some broken relationship
because shame is always about the exposure.
I don't want you to see how unworthy I am.
I don't want you to see me for who I really am
because I'm a phager, can reject me.
Shame is a relational concept.
And so to shed shame is to identify the places in your story
where shame first showed up, what relationships it first showed up in,
and what messages shame was telling you.
When you begin to do that deep work of recognizing those things,
then you can begin to unravel the kind of chains that of shame
that have been wrapped around your soul.
But if you're just trying to like break free from shame by mere power and grit,
it just doesn't work.
Because that the power is strong.
It takes a relational context to heal a broken relational context.
Relationships are broken and it takes relationships to heal,
which is why we have a God that is all about pursuit of relationship with us.
He's not about the pursuit of principles and doctrines and rights and wrongs.
He's about the pursuit of connection with us and relationship.
I've referenced you so many times in talking about the generation train
and why it's so important to understand who's on board and why.
I can't do this topic justice the same as hearing it from the source.
So Chris, tell us about the generational train.
The phrases I often say is that trauma is passed down from generation to generation
until someone is brave enough to feel it.
OK.
And it will just continue.
So when I talk about this generational train, it's like you were born
onto an already moving train and the stories that have gone before,
deeply impact who you are today.
Those stories of your family, your mother, your father,
whether they were present or not, whether they were the best parents on the planet
or not every parent along the way was born outside of Eden.
It was not more not perfect.
And so therefore there is some level of imperfection in how they raised you
and how they impacted you.
And some of you are going like, well, I had the best parents on the planet.
I'm like, bless you.
I'm so grateful that that was your story.
And there are still some places where they missed because they're imperfect people.
And some of you listening are like, oh my gosh, I can totally name all the places
where my parents missed.
Well, I want to name like in their parents and their parents and their parents
all of the trauma is passed down from generation to generation
until someone is brave enough to feel it, identify it, name it, work on it.
And basically like stop the train so that some new transformational work can be done
because as a father, your children are born under your train.
And if you want to be a generation changing father,
something has to be done inside of you.
It's not about your, it's not about your, you know, chore chart.
It's not about your discipline plan.
It's about what happens inside of you that makes you a generation changing father.
And the beauty is that, you know, we also have in the scriptures that, you know,
we hear that the curse is passed from generation to generation.
So is the blessing.
So is the blessing.
Okay. And so when it just takes one man, it just takes one man to go like,
okay, I am going to do the deep work onto the family tree that is coming after me.
I'm going to change how this is going because if I can transform the curse
of what I've inherited to the blessing that I can offer, that is going to be
also generation changing.
It will be a totally different generation train.
Now the reality is you're still imperfect.
It's not going to be the perfect train, but you can start to imbue into the narrative,
into the story, into the journey of those coming after you, some things that are
restorative versus destructive.
A dad who chooses to do that work is a dad who's very purposeful about leaving a legacy,
which we're broken record of on this program over and over about leaving a legacy.
And there's a perfect example of what that can look like.
Yeah.
Something that I often think that us men get caught up into is that the legacy that we leave
has nothing to do with your will.
It's nothing to do with how you're going to write your last will and testament.
A lot of people think that the legacy they leave is the business or the house or the bank
account or the 401k or those know legacy has nothing to do with your will.
It has everything to do with the person that you are and the transformation that you've
experienced with and for Jesus onto your children and future generations.
That is the legacy that you leave.
There's a slogan on the restoration project website that says heal your wounds, know your
God, restore your world.
How do those words align with the mission and purpose of a dad?
And how does a father begin achieving those goals?
These are what we call kind of the three waypoints or mile markers on the journey to becoming a
restorative man.
Here I live in Colorado and so we have big giant 14 or 14,000 foot mountains and there are
various waypoints where you know like, okay, I'm making my movement up towards the summit.
So healing your wounds is much of what I just said.
It is attending to the places in your life and in your story where there is some aspect of
tragedy or trauma that needs to be tended to.
There's some kind of broken relationship that needs to be tended to and I don't just mean
like today.
I mean, really the broken relationships of the past are the setup for the broken relationships
of the present.
And so to be doing some healing of your wounding as a boy as a child that needs to be tended
to, if those things are not healed, then you're going to continue to be stuck.
You're going to continue to live out of the brokenness of those wounds until you can
until you can tend to them.
So heal your wounds as the first and then know your God.
Like this is the more that we come to know who he is, the more that we come to know who
we are.
And the more that we actually come to know the masterpiece that he has written, painted,
poeticed into me and you and the next guy and the next person and your wife and your children,
the more that we come to know the masterpiece, the more that we come to know the master.
And so to know your God is to really spend time, space, curiosity, conversation in who is
this God?
Who is this God?
Who before the beginning of time created me and created you and created this world for us?
Who is that God?
And what kinds of false conceptions do I have around who he is?
So many of us have this template of our own father's face that we put onto the face of
God.
And in the failings, the failings of our fathers, we assume are going to also be the failings
of God or at least we act that way, even if we don't say it.
So we absolutely need to know who God is.
And I want to combine the two healing your wounds and knowing your God.
The more that I can recognize the cracks and the crevices of the brokenness in my own life,
the more I can actually invite the healing presence of Jesus into my life, into my story,
into my past, into my brokenness, right?
The more I actually get to experience who this God is because I get to address like,
oh my gosh, I am more broken than I realized or I have more shame or more sin or whatever,
then I realized thanks be to God.
Come to me, father, for, you know, I want to know you.
So healing your wounds is actually part of knowing God and knowing God is actually part
of healing your wounds.
And then the third way point is restore your world.
As I said, every man is meant by God to be a restorative man.
Every single one, we are partners with God.
This goes all the way back to the invitation that God had for Adam and Eve to rule over
the earth to partner with him to bring about goodness on the planet and amongst the people.
And so, so I think restore your world.
We have an option, restore or destroy.
And I would choose restore every day.
And I think people listening would choose restore every day too.
But it takes that intentionality to not just let apathy or, or, you know, anything else
kind of distraction take us away from the intention of God to restore.
We in English, we have the word father is both a noun and a verb.
It is both a noun representing a person.
And it is a verb representing an action.
And so I feel like to father, whether or not you have children, every man is called to
father.
I would equate to father with being a restorative man, bring restoration to everywhere we go.
I had this misconception that we got to sidestep the pain and go around it.
And that was the path towards healing.
And when I finally let God into that part of my life into the painful parts and let him
actually take over the process of healing me.
I discovered that I was wrong about everything.
The pathway to healing is God takes you through the pain, the pain that you want to go around,
the pain that you want to run from is the very thing he takes you through right through
the middle of it.
But the difference is he is your father.
He wants to be your Heavenly Father.
And he is intentional about walking through that pain beside you.
And that is so important because that is exactly where he wants to be in your own life.
He wants you to get used to his presence.
Yes.
Yes.
I, thanks for saying that.
And you know, like which one of us actually does want to walk through a season of pain?
I would say none of us.
And actually not even Jesus, right?
We cannot have resurrection without death.
And we cannot have death without the crucifixion.
And it was Jesus himself who asked, "Bad God, can there be another way?
I don't want to go through this pain."
And yet, you know, the answer was no in order for resurrection to happen.
We have to go, we have to go through the descendant journey down through crucifixion into death
so that the ascendant journey can happen.
There is no bypassing the process of healing or, you know, in this case, resurrection.
It just doesn't happen.
In a book called Brotherhood Primer, a man's guide for turning buddies into brothers.
Why is it so essential for dads to have their true brothers in their lives?
And what is at least one of the steps in your book that a dad must take to gain a true brother
in his life journey?
I firmly believe that we were never meant to a journey this life alone or be father alone.
We were meant to be in the context of community.
We were created by God in the context of relationship.
The father's unspirit said, "Let us make mankind."
And so in the very kind of womb of community, we were created.
And so therefore, like we have this idea now that we're supposed to be these lone-ranger
men and rely on myself and all that.
And the reality is like, "No, that's actually going to work against you.
We have to be in the context of community of a brotherhood."
And I'll hear a lot also from men that, "Well, my wife is my best friend, and I don't need
anybody else."
And on one level, I want to say, like, "I am so grateful that you have such a friendship
inside of your marriage, oh, that all marriages would be that way."
And then the second thing I say, and that is a lot of pressure for your wife to be in
to hold all of the things that you as a man need to navigate through and talk through
and wonder about.
Like, that is a lot of pressure on her.
So a brotherhood of men is a necessity for every man.
And it is, oh, like, loneliness and isolation are the two greatest epidemics amongst men
of our day.
And so we have to address the building of community.
And so I wrote the brotherhood primer because it's called a primer because it really is just
meant to prime the pump, get things going, get moving in this.
And it walks through how to ask other men to be part of a brotherhood, a small group with
you, a small group of deeper friends that it walks through.
How do you get past just kind of talking about general everyday thing, like, you know, the
sports game or the, what the pastor said in his sermon or what's happening in politics or
what do you think about the weather today?
Like, how do you get past all those things to the actual grit and text of life, which is
our stories?
And to get into sharing and understanding and listening and receiving and interacting
around our stories, that's the process that takes you from a buddy just, you know, hang
him out, fish in, hunt and buddy or whatever, watching the game buddy to a brother, which
is such a different experience, somebody who's deep in your life and in your story.
So for a dad, I would say like if you are alone in the following journey, a lot of guys will
laugh.
That's why I'm laughing now when I say this because you actually have to just go out and
ask another man on a date, just like you would go ask a woman on a date.
You got to be like, hey, I like you.
There's something in you and what I watch, I see, you know, that, that I like and I want
to get to know you better.
Can we go hang out?
Can we have coffee?
Can we go, you know, grab a drink?
Whatever it is, can we go hike?
Just ask another guy to go out and do something together with you and maybe two or three and
be real intentional about like, hey, I need other men in my life and I want there to be other
men, not just for my sake, but for my wife's sake and for my kids sake.
I want there to be other men speaking into into my general life.
And would you be interested in that?
The other piece that I would say is I think in the world of men, particularly Christian
men, we have lost the sense of what actual accountability is.
I think so much of what we believe accountability is in these kinds of groups is that if I'm
going to hold you accountable, that means that I'm going to ask you about your sin.
And I'm going to make sure I'm going to keep you, it's more of a sin management project.
Accountability actually in my mind is not about your sin, but about that masterpiece within
you, the man that God designed you to be, the one that's being called fourth.
So rather, you know, yes, we may talk about the sin, but that's not the primary focus.
It's like, and who are you becoming today?
And how are you growing today?
What is happening in your life today?
What is challenging you today?
And how are you seeing God show up in the healing your wounds journey that you're that
we're all on together?
I'd like for us both to speak to that dad who's either facing the last child leaving the
home or the last child has already left the home.
Is this the end?
What's next?
In two days, my wife and I actually take our youngest off to college.
We're going to be moving her in to her dorm on on Wednesday.
So this week, just two days from now, so it's right now for me, I am facing that I've already
launched to and this is our last.
So in just a few days, we will be official empty nesters.
It is, let's say a couple of things here first, it is not the end.
It is just different.
You will and forever be your child's father.
And what they need from you now is different than what they needed when they were five or
ten or fifteen.
You know, it's something completely different.
And some of the work that we do actually at Restoration Project is we have an entire experience
that we run for dads of older kids who are on the brink on the precipice of launching.
We have an entire experience where we take you overseas and to give you kind of a wow
experience together, but also in the midst of that, we're talking about what do we need
to do to kind of clear the air from the past and prepare for the future.
How do we move that child into less of a child and more into an adult and now rather
than a father child experience, now you have a like a pure experience with the other.
You'll always have that role in their lives and they may always come to you.
But now your adult adult, you're not adult child and that actually has to, you have to do
some work in that space as a father to prepare for that.
And in the child, if that doesn't happen, then either the child will feel like, am I
considered an adult now?
Like what does this look like?
Can I participate in the adult things?
And you know, or not?
Or they'll go somewhere else to try to find it.
So it's not the end.
It is just different.
It is just different.
And with my two other adult children right now, there is less than I need to do for them
on, like I said, when they were five, and more around my availability, am I available
to listen?
Am I available to just be with?
Am I available to have empathy and compassion and some curiosity around what's going on?
I think one of the defaults of us men is that we default into giving advice.
And I do not give advice to my children unless I am specifically asked for advice.
Most of the time what our adult children need from us is our presence, not our advice.
They just need to know that there is someone my favorite four words in this space, bigger,
stronger, kinder, wiser.
Bigger, stronger, wider, kinder, wiser.
They need to know that they have a space to come back to.
And that space is not like our actual living room or, you know, some place that we can go
sit.
It's an emotional, relational space that they can come back to with me and know that there
is someone who is bigger, stronger, wiser, kinder, that will be present to them, listen to
them, care for them, offer them just some compassion for what they're going through.
And then if asked, offer them some advice because we've walked this journey before.
We've gotten our first mortgage, we've opened our first credit card, we've moved and taken
our first job, we've negotiated jobs, we've negotiated, we've gotten married, like all that
kind of stuff we've done before.
And so there may be some advice that we can give, but by and large as they are walking
through it, how they walk through it is going to be different from how you walk through
it, but by and large they mean you present and your face and your eyes more than they need
your words.
And you've also written a book called Sage.
And Sage to me takes that, takes your role outside of just parenthood, outside of just, you
finished off your kids and they're, they're now ready for adulthood and it answers so many
questions about that, what's next?
What, where does my life go from here?
I've raised my kids, now what is my purpose?
In Sage, what I talk about, it's kind of a partnered book with my first book, Manmaker
Project.
Manmaker Project was all about the first right of passage that a boy goes through to become
a man.
And it was written for fathers to help dads guide their sons through the journey of becoming
a man.
But I labeled it as the first passage, right, from boy to man.
The way that I talk about Sage is that it's the second passage.
And it's one that most men don't realize is actually part of our journey as men.
We assume that once you go from boy to man, then you just stay a man, the rest of your life.
Well there's actually another season after, as you just mentioned, after your kids launch,
after some things are happening, you know, in your life, maybe you're, you're looking
at stepping out of the role that you're in at work or in your ministry or whatever it is,
or maybe you're looking at retirement or maybe you're looking at an empty home now, like
that kind of thing.
What is next, the sage journey is that second passage from man into sage where you are
recognizing like something inside of you now is settling.
But the energy that you needed to father your kids back, you know, five years ago is still
inside of you, but it needs to be applied differently into, into the world, into further
healing in your own life, into the world around you, your church, your ministry, your, your
small group, your, your family.
There is still something really important in, in becoming a sage.
And I'll just say this, right, not every man becomes an elder.
Every man becomes elderly, but not every man becomes an elder.
And it actually is, and it don't mean like the elder role in a church.
I mean, the elder of a society, the elder of a family, the elder that has that gravitas
of presence that feels safe and secure and grounding, that actually is what I mean by
sage.
So that's what's next.
Maybe you're going to retire.
Maybe you're going to, you know, quit work and go on and get the benefits that you've been
working for.
I'm not talking about retirement.
Go play golf.
It's fine.
Go play golf.
But so many men just let that be the thing that they are.
They become a golfer.
They don't become a sage.
And I feel like, you know, there are plenty of sages who golf.
So, you know, I just use that as an example, but I would love to see a generation of men
who are intentional being restorative men in their 20s, in their 30s, in their 40s, in their
50s, in their 60s.
And the sage is the one that is hitting that second half of life.
This is what it looks like to be a restorative man who has a few years under his belt.
Chris, how can dads get a hold of you for help or to learn more about what you're doing
or to purchase any of your books?
All the books are on Amazon.
So if you want to hop on Amazon, you can do that just search for Chris Bruno just heads up.
There is another Chris Bruno.
Great man.
I've met him.
Talk to him.
But he writes some other books to some theological books.
And so look for Chris Bruno Sage or Chris Bruno Manmaker project.
Chris Bruno Brotherhood primer and those will all come up on Amazon.
You can also visit the Restoration Project website, which is restorationproject.net.
Or if you're looking to do a little bit more on the deeper end of some personal work, I
also give leadership to a Restorey counseling, which is a counseling center here in Northern
Colorado.
But you don't have to live in Northern Colorado.
You can live anywhere in the world and we can come alongside of you.
So check us out at Restorey.life.
Just to make things easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I'll have all of the links that Chris just mentioned posted there for your convenience.
As we close, what is your challenge to dad's listening now?
It's never too early and it's never too late.
So it's never too early.
Even if you don't have kids yet, it's never too early to tend to the parts of your life
that need to be tended to.
Your story, your wounds, the broken relationships, all the things we've talked about in this
episode.
It's never too early to do this work.
I think some of one of my favorite men that I got to work with one-on-one was a 21-year-old,
young man who was preparing for his future.
He had not even met the woman he wanted to marry yet because he wanted to do some restoration
in his life.
So it's never too early.
Did you guys have never too late?
It is never too late.
I literally just a couple of weeks ago did some work with an 85-year-old who was wanting
to do some work in life, in story and family and transformation and healing and all that.
And also some work around just like how he had fathered his family and wanting to heal
some of the things of what he had done in his life towards his kids.
So it's never too early and it's never too late.
The question is not when but if you're going to do it.
And I just want to say please do it.
Please do it for the kingdom of God and especially for the little kingdom that is about you.
Amen.
Please take it.
Chris, thank you so much for coming back to the Fatherhood challenge.
It has been absolutely an honor having you here.
Thank you for sharing all of the wisdom and knowledge with us and bringing so much hope
into the lives of so many dads.
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for having me back on the show.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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What do you do when your child or teen has a meltdown? How do you help your kids bounce back after suffering a bitter disappointment or worse, trauma and grief? Teaching your kids resilience is so key to their success as an adult, that I’ve asked a resilience coach to join us so we can master resilience for both ourselves and our kids.
Russell Harvey's mission is giving others the tools and techniques to create the right conditions to apply “transformation” to their roles as parents and leaders.
To learn more about Russell Harvey, receive coaching find resources or listen to his podcast visit: https://www.theresiliencecoach.co.uk/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
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Transcription - Teaching Resiliency to Your Child
What do you do when your child or your teen has a meltdown?
How do you help your kids bounce back after suffering a bitter disappointment or worse, trauma or grief?
Teaching your kids resilience is so key to their success as an adult
that I've asked a resilience coach to join us here if this will help us master resilience for both
ourselves and our kids. So don't go anywhere. Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor
of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge in Genius Prep. In Genius Prep is the world's
premier admissions consulting firm proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college
admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized
educational programs that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times. In Genius Prep
students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from other competitive
students in three areas colleges evaluate students in academics, extra curricular activities
and personal characteristics. Just this past admission cycle,
Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools
and 904 offers from top 50 schools. Genius Prep student success lies within the fact that
Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting firm offering every service of family needs,
whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships,
the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses, and other
customized programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic
extent to share with colleges. Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free
strategy call with one of Genius Prep's college experts or you can visit ingeniousprep.com
that's ingeniousprep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take
great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the
stability and culture of their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me. Also joining us is Russell Harvey.
Russell's passion and mission is giving others the tools and techniques to create the right
conditions to apply transformation to their roles as parents and leaders. Russell, thank you so
much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you so much for asking me, Jonathan, it's an
absolute pleasure to be here and to have all of their listeners tuning in. Hello to you all.
One of my favorite questions to start out with is a dad joke. So Russell, what is your favorite
dad joke? I'm in Leeds UK and there is in Scotland there's the Edinburgh festival,
comedy festival coming up again. So I actually had a look for last year's top 10 jokes for last year.
So for me a dad joke has to have this real mixture of like grown and laughter to it at the same time.
So the number one joke which I think sort of fits this bill from the last year's Edinburgh
Fringe Festival was as follows. I started dating a zookeeper but it turned out they were a cheetah.
So that should, yeah, do the laugh and the groan of the same problem. Thank you for being
with me. And that's actually from a Lorna Rose train that we need to have tripped that too.
And then I saw another one that caught me eye in the top 10. I thought this is number four or five.
So this one is when women gossip they get called too faced but when men gossip it's called a podcast.
So those ones tickled me and I hope they tickle everybody else as well. So those yes,
those are two for you there are two for one. The Russell, they were true dad jokes.
All right, well let's dive right in. Russell you have an impressive career. What is your story and
journey that led you to become a resilience coach? I'm being cheeky now because it's not a
resilience coach. Jonathan, I am the resilience coach. If you want to farm you anywhere it's not
any old resilience coach. It's the resilience coach. I managed to snaffle that one for a website
domain so I'm sticking to it. So my journey I've always really been interested in human behavior.
I think I've been fascinated since a really early age about how come people do the things that they do?
How can we do behavior this particular way or we don't behave in this particular way?
And the vast majority of my career has been in learning and development and leadership
development but it started 1996 in Hong Kong. So I was travelling around the world for a year
with my lovely girlfriend who later became my wife and I was teaching in Hong Kong.
I was teaching English language lessons so essentially just local Hong Kong Chinese.
And in the room some form of magic was happening. I didn't know what it was but I just thought
you know what I think I want to do this for a living. But I knew I didn't want to be a teacher
teaching a school. I just knew that wasn't me and then I came back to the UK and thought you know
what I think I want to do training because the magic that was happening in the room
it turns out later was people learning people having light bulb moments. People going from
confused face to a heart I understand the face. That did something to me. That did something to my
heart and my gut and my head and it actually just sort of gave me a zap of a wonderful feeling.
And that goes into my purpose. So one of the dimensions of being resilient is having a purpose
and we may talk about this later but by the year 2025 I want to positively affect 100,000 people
and right now I'm up to about 72,312ish essentially. And so when I mean by positively affect is there
anybody that I support to have their realization, their light bulb moments, their learning moments.
And so when I came back from Hong Kong in 1997 essentially had a career in learning and development
and today I call myself a facilitator and a coach. And the fact that the resilience coach came about
is that my last permanent role was a business called the co-op and their co-operatives worldwide
and not long after I joined he got itself into a real pickle as a business.
And I was just there supporting all of the leaders, the top 300 leaders around actually this
business is in trouble. What do we do? How do we resolve this? And I said well this is word resilience
and there's this an acronym called VUCA which people may or may not be familiar with. And I went
all of our approaches, our solutions, our answers are in there. So my specialism is how to lead
yourself and others really well in a volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous world. And that is
the resilience coach. In what ways can dad's model resiliency for their kids? What are the long term
impacts of such modeling? I think the really important thing right now is how I describe and define
resilience. So I would love, you know, yourself, do you know the thing? And everybody's listening now
to get their heads and hearts around how I define resilience, which is as follows. So resilience is
about springing forward with learning, springing forward with learning. So I'm personally not a fan of
the term bounce back because we can't actually go backwards. Sometimes there's a risk that when a
challenging event happens to us, yes, we do need to recover from it. But then we are quite often
said to ourselves, right, our now bounce back. And it's can there's a risk. It's a subconscious
instruction to the brain to go back to how you were and you can't do that. Resilient people are
perpetually learning, springing forward with learning. So to answer your question, how leaders,
parents, dads can actually cultivate resilience in their children and in their team is to cultivate
optimism and the growth mindset. That's what they can do. And then so explain what they are and then
the long term benefits. So optimism is the fact that we're trying to move away from toxic positivity.
So how you get to feelings of hope and feeling positive is to actually think about optimism first.
Now if you look up the dictionary definition of optimism, it's got the word positivity
is gripe it. So they're heavily intertwined. And the starting point of optimism is the fact that
it is grounded in reality. So one of the things that we have to find a way throughout life to
accept with good grace is that life is unfair. It's just really horrible things happen to wonderful,
amazing, gorgeous people. Life is unfair. So cultivating that attitude and that understanding
in your children and in the team that you lead is really helpful. So optimism is grounded in reality.
So you do need to understand that if there's a size and scale of a problem or something's not
working in the way that you would like it to, we have to be open and honest about that. We have to be
really clear about what the size of the challenge is, of what the problem is and find a way to talk
about it without going into a negative spiral, but just talking about it openly and honestly,
then the next thing to do is to immediately think about, so what are my strengths, what are my skills,
what are my capabilities, what are my attitudes, what's my current level of resilience that I've
got. Actually, that can face into this challenge. And when you focus on that for yourself and the people
around you, then you can start to get genuine feelings of hope. And then you start to feel positive
to go, do you know what, there is a real challenge we've got, but actually if I think about myself,
the strength skills capabilities, attitude, mindset, behaviors, experiences I've got,
and there is a round me you've got, then actually you start to get genuine feelings of hope
and face into it. And part of that is cultivating a growth mindset. So actually, somebody from the US,
a lady called Carol S. Dweck, specialized in fixed and growth mindset. So she's got some
some great TED talks around this, if people listening now want to find out more. But a growth mindset
is absolutely cultivating it in your children and your team, people around you, getting them to actually
really get into the place that they are perpetually learning. They can always grow, they can always
improve. And how you do that is about giving feedback and I praising people on the effort that they
are putting into things. Less about the outcome, the end result, the achievement, you absolutely
acknowledge that. So if a child comes home and brings the drawing and a painting from kindergarten
or certificate from school, you don't suddenly put that to one side and go, tell us about the effort
you put in. You absolutely praise this brilliance of the masterpiece of art that you're going to put
on the fridge. And they've got a certificate, you're going to praise that. But also start to ask some
questions about actually what was the effort they put in? Where did they persevere when they found
it challenging? How did they overcome that? And so it's about asking some open coaching questions
around that. So the long term benefits of doing optimism and growth mindset is you enable the people
around you and your children to understand what their strengths are. And I will talk about this a
lot, taking a strengths-based approach. Because when you identify what naturally energises you,
then that builds natural resilience and natural confidence. And there's many studies that show
that if a child has had a really difficult background, a bit difficult upbringing, when someone,
a parent, a guardian or a mentor or a teacher, you know, or a guidance counselor,
clicks at the something that they enjoy doing and they actually find a way to just find
opportunities for this particular child to do these things that they enjoy doing. And just find
multiple opportunities for them to do them week by week. Then actually they come out the other
side of their difficult challenging experiences far more resilient than those children that didn't
have that experience. So optimism, growth mindset, those will cultivate the springing forward
with learning and they will cultivate natural resilience. I absolutely love that. My wife and I have
had fascinating discussions. It started out as a disagreement over the whole strength-based approach
mindset because the way I grew up and the way I was taught in my main thing, I do many, I feel like
I wear many hats, but one of the main hats I wear is music. I'm a musician and a teacher.
Perfect, great.
Yeah, I grew up with this whole mindset of, and the way I was taught, was not strength-based.
It was focused on your weaknesses. Find all of your weaknesses. Let's figure out what they are.
Let's bring them to the surface and let's do drills, exercises, everything, and let's turn every
single weakness into a strength to where you don't have any weaknesses. That was the focus.
My wife and I have had quite a few discussions over that in the past. I have to tell you,
she's right. No surprise there.
I think it's because it's about this word, energy. When I come from a strength-based approach,
there's a particular psychometric called strength-cope that I utilize in my clients.
And clever people and I have come up with 24 strengths. You do a psychometric and you come up
with your significant seven. So you can't be naturally equally energized by all 24 of these strengths.
There's seven of them that you are your significant seven things that you're energized by.
And everybody's psychometric is different. So it's about harnessing those.
And with so many of my leadership clients, when we do their psychometric, their eyes will naturally
go to their low score and they go, "Okay, so I presume my homework Russell is for me to work upon
my weaknesses." And they go, "No, no, it isn't. We're going to look at those. Those things that you've
got less energy for. They're not a weakness, less energy for them." But what your homework is is to
look at these significant seven, these things that you love doing and will be naturally good at,
your homework is to do more of those as much as you're possible. And for so many of my clients,
it's like a light bulb. Wow, oh my god, what? I don't have to spend all these time on my weaknesses.
But it's also being really clear that we find a different way to and put strategies in place
to think about, "Okay, so there's something that you have to do as part of your job role.
It is genuinely yours to do, but you don't have natural energy for it." So there's multiple strategies
that we can put in place to actually support you in those moments. So, you know, your parents,
nothing would have been, you know, wonderful and great. We will do these things about,
"I'm not very good at this. I'd like to get better at it." That's fine, but it's understanding,
if you spend all of your time focusing on the things that naturally de-energize you,
it's going to batter you because you're spending all your time doing something that de-energizes you.
So it'll just make you feel even more de-energized. So we're trying to make sure we don't get into that
place. Thank you for explaining that a little bit more in depth because I've been curious as to why,
I mean, experientially, I've seen the strength-based approach achieve and do more, but I've never
understood the mechanics of why. So your explanation was very, very helpful in that regard. I appreciate
that. One of my favorite quotes that I've heard my father-in-law say a lot is that there are no,
there's no such thing as failure, only new data. And it's become a favorite of mine. So when a child
suffers better disappointment, what is the boundary and difference between coddling and helping them
helping them become resilient and recovered? Yes, so for me, this goes to, I'm going to back to
the strength-based approach. So two of these 24 strengths are compassion and empathy.
We're all, you know, energize differently. Some of us are going to have little natural energy
for either, and that's okay. Some of us are going to have lots of energy for both. And some of us
are going to have lots of energy for one or the other. By sheer coincidence, two of my seven
significant seven are compassion and empathy. But these play out in, I want everybody that's
listening now to think about as well about what's the difference between help and support?
So the definition around the compassion strength is that we've got varying levels of energy,
some of us highs, some of mediums, some of low, the compassion descriptor is that you deeply
care about the well-being of the person or the people in front of you. You genuinely want to do
things for them. You want to help them. You want to look after them. You want to take care of them.
And that's great. It's lovely. And I do an awful lot of work in the UK with the National Health Service
that we have. And that's the caring profession. So I support them around coaching skills, and we
have lots of conversations around, is the likelihood that you've got a compassion driver because of
the job role that you do. But it's actually how much are you helping your clients and patients?
And how much are you supporting them to do things for themselves? So if your compassion
driver energises it is too much, then you will be coddling. Feed union, your phrasology, your question
that you asked. There is a risk that you're going to coddling, and it'll be too much in the space of
the person not learning from the experience. So empathy, the empathy descriptor is about you have
lots of energy to actually discover what is making this person tick in front of you. How are they
thinking and feeling? How are they processing their thoughts, their feelings, their experiences?
You know, you will ask open coaching questions. You'll empathise with them. You'll be understanding
their point of view, and you won't necessarily be wanting to slip into fix it for them.
Okay, so it is understanding that people's emotions belong to them. We cannot use our emotions to fix
somebody else's emotions, even though we desperately try, and I've still fallen to that trap on a
regular basis. And when love comes into play, you know, loved ones, then absolutely, you know, the
compassion is going to come to the fore. So it's about tapping into your empathy driver. And even if
you've got little energy for it, how you role model that is essentially being curious and asking
questions about how they're thinking and feeling, how they want to process it, what they want to do
with their thoughts and feelings, how it's impacting their behaviours, they'll feel heard,
they'll feel understood. And then it is then an appropriate point shifting into that mantra
mind of springing forward learning to go, okay, so what are you going to learn from this experience?
What are you going to keep doing? That's worked well for you. What are you going to do differently next time?
Is anything that you're going to stop doing? And if you can tap more into your empathy side of things,
then that will be more supportive and learning, rather than too much helping and sort of just doing
things for people without them learning. You work a lot with adults who are often stuck. And I'm one
of those. There was a time in my life when I felt exactly that way. I felt stuck. I felt like I was
lacking purpose in life. It can also be career related. How do you help them find their purpose and
gain their courage? Courage is actually one of the specific 24 strengths as well. So I'll come back to
that in a minute. So purpose is one of the dimensions of being resilient. And I know you'll ask
at the end how people get in touch with us. But on my website, I have the resilience wheel, which is
got seven aspects to it. So if anybody asked me, okay, so how do I build my resilience, Russell? I go,
look, there's this wheel and there's seven aspects to it. Engage with your wheel in varying ways,
all seven aspects of it. And that's how you'll build your resilience. One of them is the purpose,
which I mentioned at the start, what my purpose is. So and it's not a question that you can immediately
just walk into a room and ask a lot of people, so what's your purpose? There's a route into it.
One of the routes into it is is a different question about, so talk to me about the times in your life
when you felt proud. That's a starting point to enable others to discover what their purpose might be.
So and sometimes that takes a little while. Some people need to think of some examples. So you do need
to do some reflection. You might need to chat to some people, you know, you might need to go for, you know,
a walk, get some pen and paper and school about when's the times where life that felt proud? Once you've
started, you'll, you know, the floodgates will open and you'll get some experiences. Once you've got
these an example of what made you feel proud, then I want you to think of the an acronym of a car,
C-A-R, and that stands for Challenge Action Result. So when you think, when you thought of one
particular example, it makes you feel proud, then you need to break it down to go, okay, so what was
the challenge at the start? What was the starting point? What was the example? Was it like, you know,
a really difficult time? Was it a project? Well, was I asked to build something? Was I involved in
something? So what was the challenge at the start? And the letter A is action, which is, what did you
do in this, in this example? How did you behave? Were you a leader or a follower? Were you a team member?
What were your skills? What were your capabilities? What were your behaviors? What were your strengths?
When were you energized? So put lots of things down around the actions and the behaviors and the
strengths and the skills, and then what was the result of what you did? And when you do that for
a few of them, the letter A is where all the great stuff is, because that letter A will be telling you
and telling yourself, actually, what's important to you, what your value system is, actually, what your
purpose was in each of those examples, and then it will be demonstrating to yourself actually who
you are as a human. And then you can translate that into, okay, for me to do more of that, that's my
purpose. And so it also goes into, you know, I ask a lot of my clients, you know, have you got a purpose?
Have you got a leadership purpose? So I'm also curious as well around, actually, everybody's listening now,
what's your parenting, your fatherhood purpose? You know, what's people's answers to that? Now, I'm not
about the fact that you have to have lots of purposes. That's not what I mean. You know, there'll be one
over arching one and they can all be interconnected. But sometimes when you ask people what's your
life purpose? And they say, so how does that translate into your leadership purpose? You know, they have
to do a little bit more thinking reflection around it. So the routine to rediscovering your purpose is
to think about this question of when is the times in my life when I felt proud? What was the challenge?
What were the actions that I did and what was the result? And spend lots of time in the actions,
because that will be explaining to you who you are as a person, what your value system
and then you can translate that into a purpose? I want to go into an area that might be a little
uncomfortable for some, but I think very much essential. Talk about numbing through addictions for
reasons. Maybe it could be a divorce, it could be job loss or it could be any traumatic event.
Are there healthier or more constructive ways to seek this dopamine rush that we're after
to overcome the emotional lows and the force of a loss? Yeah, so if anybody is in that place or has
been in that place now, hopefully we've shown some empathy now, I'm just really sorry that that's
happening for you. The simple answer to the question is like, yeah, there are better ways of
facing into the emotions that you're having, then doing unhelpful behaviors around alcohol or
drugs or something else. Now, the way forward from this is once again, you know, think about
the seven aspects of the resilience wheel. So working or engaging with any aspect of that wheel
has knock on impacts on all of the other areas. And one other one's, one people to think about is
one of the aspects of the resilience wheel is your support network. So the other thing that when I
was reflecting on this sort of this question is for everybody to listen in now, it's how currently
good are they at both asking for help and accepting help? Because when we go through really difficult times
and unfortunately my wife has been very ill the last couple of years and I've become her carer.
And so I've been going through difficult times and I have been querying myself on
how have I? I've been offered a lot of help. And I've been thinking about when have I accepted it
and when have I not accepted it? So we do fall into the trap of believing that we can sort things
out for herself and fix ourselves. And so right now, everybody's listening now, it's just think
about how do you answer the question and Jonathan, that was a really good, when I said it,
of like, how good are you asking for help and then therefore accepting the help?
So you really do need to go to your support network and if there isn't one there, you have to cultivate
one. That's absolutely what you have to do at this moment in time. And as a result of that,
you need to be open and curious. But it's also a state of readiness for this as well. So there
isn't necessarily a simple answer, but it's a case of if you're feeling alone, it is absolutely about
making the choice to literally put one point in front of the other to walk into a room and ask for
some help. That's a really significant starting point for people around this. And then it's about
allowing yourself to be open and curious about the help that you're going to accept. That's
the best answer I have right now. There is a better way, which is what we turn to because it feels
easier. But yeah, it's like how good are you asking and accepting help? I'm listening to how you're
answering these questions and how you're just diving into the topic. And it is clearly evident to me
that what really drives you, what really gets you going is seeing people succeed. You feed, I can tell,
you literally feed off of your clients, getting unstuck and improving their lives and getting better.
This is what gets you out of bed in the morning. I don't even have to ask that question. I know
what gets you out of bed in the morning. And you make that very obvious to me. Thank you.
So that might be asking, maybe I'm already answering the next question for you, but why would you
recommend that a dad work with a resiliency coach instead of trying to tackle some of these
strategies on their own? We can't do everything by ourselves. When you work with a coach,
you will then actually be equipped with more tips, tools and techniques to do things for yourself.
The point of purpose of the coach is to set you up to actually face into life's challenges and
spring fall learning when the coach isn't there. So I will be by your side, physically
virtually and metaphorically. It's really interesting. Some of the feedback that I've had over
the decades is, 'Do you know, Russell, I was just about to do something the other day with one of my
team and your voice was in my head. I was remembering back to one of the conversations that we'd
had. I was just about to behave in a particular way and suddenly your voice was in my head and I
changed my behaviours and I got a better outcome.' So that's lovely for you back to get. I suppose it's
that question about why would it, what's the benefits of working with a coach, essentially? So it's
that whole thing of like a coach is there to support you, to discover whatever it is that you want
to be different better in your life and enable you to get there and then part ways, essentially,
but it has long lasting impacts. So working with the resilience coach will actually set you up with
the resiliency skills for life and who wouldn't want that, Jonathan? Who wouldn't want that?
Absolutely. There is a, there is a pride in getting to that point where you feel like you can master
life no matter what it throws at you. You can't change what happens to you but you can change
what you do about what happens to you and having those skills always with you. I can't think of anyone
who would not want that. No, absolutely, absolutely. And it's like this one, was one client recently,
if people want to look at most socials, it's, I've got permission, it's a testimonial that's out there
but they really shifted from. They were in a, you know, they had the, you know, our deal client is
somebody's got, you know, a job title of head off or director of, and they were in a director of
position and they were taking lots of things out of the earth to build stuff and they weren't happy
and, you know, they weren't personal and work life wasn't great. And they completely and
actually shifted. They changed jobs and, you know, last time I spoke to them, relationships with
family are so much better as well and they're in a completely different place doing conservation.
You know, the protection of birds. So they've shifted from taking stuff out of the earth to actually
conserving the earth. And I mean, that's the significant transformational difference and not all of my
clients is quite as significant as that but that's the recent one and it is. It's definitely something
that I'm very proud for them that they've managed to achieve. Russell, how can dads learn more about
what you're doing or get in touch with you with questions or to get coaching? Also, how can they find
your podcast? So literally everything is on the website. So all the w's dot v resilience coach dot
co dot UK, the podcast that I have is on the homepage that's there. There's a form of contact
Russell, which is on there. There's umpteen, umpteen blogs that are on there as well that people can
read through. So that's the easiest way to get hold of us. I'm on, you know, uh, linked in and Facebook
and Instagram. So the resilience coach, there's there's multiple ways about how you can get in touch
with us and just literally I'm open to a, you know, virtual cup of coffee, physical cup of coffee in a
chat, you know, we, um, that individual that I just talked about the example that transformed that 99%
of all of that coaching was virtual. Uh, so it doesn't necessarily have to be face to face.
And just to make things easier, if you go to the fatherhood challenge dot com, that's the fatherhood
challenge dot com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description, I'll have the
link that Russell mentioned posted there for your convenience. And Russell, as we close, what is your
challenge to dad's listening now? My challenge is how, how, not what, how are you going to enable and
empower your children? Russell, I've learned so much from you in this episode. That's what makes this
so much fun. And I know the audience did too. Just this conversation alone, I'm already feeling
better about my day. So there's something, there's something to listen to. So I thank you so much for
being with me with us on the father challenge. I really enjoyed it. My absolute pleasure. Thank you so
much. Thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the fatherhood challenge, please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com. That's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
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In this episode we’re going to discuss why a belief in a God higher than yourself is essential to be at your best for your children. We are also going to discuss why teaching your kids to be spiritually connected can give them many advantages in life over dads who choose not to.
My guest is Bryan Ward. Bryan is a dad, husband and the creator and host of a top-rated podcast called Dad Up Podcast. Bryan has also coached countless fathers on becoming the best dad they can be for their families.
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Transcription - The God Advantage
In this episode, we're going to discuss why a belief in a God higher than yourself is essential to be at your best for your children.
We're also going to discuss why teaching your kids to be spiritually connected can give them many advantages in life over other dads who choose not to.
All this in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge, Ingenius Prep.
Ingenius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times.
Ingenius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.
In academics, extra curricular activities and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle, Ingenius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
Ingenius Prep student success lies within the fact that Ingenius Prep is an all in one consulting firm offering every service of family needs, whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses and other customized programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Ingenius Prep's college experts or you can visit IngeniusPrep.com that's IngeniusPrep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Brian Ward.
Brian is a dad, husband and creator and co-host of a top rated podcast called Dad Up Podcast. Brian has also coached countless fathers on becoming the best dad that they can be for their families.
Brian, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you very much for having me, brother. I really appreciate it. I've been looking forward to this conversation.
Brian, what is your favorite dad joke?
Which one?
I think dads probably have a few in their belts that they keep around. I think I've thrown so many at my kids that they don't really into them anymore. They're 25 and 22. They're like, okay whatever dad.
Now the first one that comes to mind is when I was looking at the question, I was like, okay, I could think of the one that I always go to.
It's a simple one, but how do you organize a party in space?
Party in space. I have no idea. You plan it.
And then the other one I like to use is why did this bar involves a bar, but why did the dad bring his ladder to the bar?
I have no idea.
Because it drinks around the house.
Those are my two, those are my two vote to use, but love it. Yeah. Well, Brian, what is your story behind why and how you started the dad podcast?
You know, it's interesting. I went through a phase in my life where I've been a pretty, I'd like to call myself a pretty successful dad and that I was always intentional with my time with my boys.
I was always around. I was always doing things with them. I was always the one being responsible for them when it came to field trips.
I was always at their parent teacher conferences, open house. I was at everything. I mean, it was just wasn't a thing that I wasn't at.
My wife and I both. And I had an opportunity when my older son who's now 25, I was signing him up for a little league baseball.
And the guy looked at me and said, hey, you want a coach? And I said, oh, no, man, I know, I know baseball is, and I know how to play.
I know the rules and all that, but I have no idea how to coach. And he goes, bro, they're four years old. They're going to play with the grass and they're going to run around.
Just teach them the basics. I'm like, okay, I'll give it a shot. So that's how kind of how my journey as to really diving in as a dad really got started because I started coaching when my older son was four.
I coached both my boys. I've coached my nephews and I coached them all the way up through high school, including once they graduated high school, I continued to coach the high school level.
My point is that when my younger son had reached this senior year of high school, my older son at the time was in college.
I felt this pit in my stomach. I felt a almost a sadness to this journey that I'd been on for all these years.
It really caused me to go not into heavy depression, but I had like this, the slight bit of anxiety or depression come over me that I just didn't know how to handle it.
And that was that my younger son was about to leave the house, go to college.
And I felt like my dad journey was over. I felt like it had come to an end. We as dads know that that doesn't ever happen, right? We're always going to be dads forever.
But for me, because I had been such an involved dad, that was all I knew. I was everything that I knew. And I felt like that was gone. It was going to be over.
And I was talking to my, I was telling my wife about it and telling her how I was feeling and I was talking to a couple of family members about it and what I'm said, well, Brian, you have been such a successful or great dad with Blake and Brett my two boys.
Maybe this is a time now for you to reflect and maybe give back to other dads. And I said, what do you mean? And it's what about doing a podcast?
And I went, you know, maybe I don't know much about podcasts. I don't even know how to get started. But maybe I'll give it some thought. You could do podcasts where you're talking to, you know, athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, pastors, authors, just getting their experiences as dads.
And maybe it'll resonate with another dad out there. Maybe they share something that will really hit home for another dad that's listening.
And so I thought about it. I went home, talked to my wife about it. She said, that would be great. You would be phenomenal at it. And the rest is history. 250 episodes later, four and a half years, almost five years in.
I've been featured on a number of publications. I've been featured on radio. I've been featured on CNN didn't interview on me. It's just, it's been a, it's been a journey. It's been a ride and it's been a lot of fun.
But it all started from just having a sense of, of almost like loss, sadness and, you know, God opened my heart and said, Hey, I have, I have more in your life. I have more purpose for you than what you think of just being a dad.
And this is the journey I want to take you on. And now I get to coach dads out there. I have dads that are clients of mine that I coach. So it's just opened up a whole new world for me.
I had a guest on his name was Chris Bruno and he wrote a book called Sage. And a sage is is a wise person that mentors younger people through their, their journeys based on, on their own experiences and, and their own wisdom that they've learned over the years.
And that's what you've become for many dads is is a sage. And to really add to it, there are a lot of so called sages out there in the dad space. And, and there's, and we're going to get to this.
There's a lot of people out there that call themselves dad coaches. It's all over the place. But the reason you and I are talking is because you have a unique advantage over everybody else who claims to be in that same space.
It's the fact that you're spiritually guided and you're spiritually led and directed through your journey. Not only through your journey through fatherhood, but now in your new role as a sage and a leader and a coach to other dads.
You are spiritually guided, which gives you this huge advantage over everybody else.
Because when it comes to topics and agendas, you're right at the center of God's heart. And we'll touch on that more later. Tell me about your most memorable guest. What made that episode so impactful to both you and your audiences?
Listen, I have a couple of episodes that I could reflect on that the individuals that I interviewed really were just a check in all in dad that was successful. I had, there's been three of them now that I have interviewed that were, I mean, they just hit, they just checked every box.
And they were so impressive to me in those three individuals, sadly, have passed away since, since our recording. And what's, what's, what's so touching about that is that I was able to have an impact not only on their life, but I was also able to have an impact on their family's life.
Because now they have a recording of their dad or now they have a recording of their husband sharing moments of them and their family together.
And so they will have that forever, you know, it's on the podcast. I'll have it forever. And so as sad as I am that those three individuals had passed away, it just makes me feel good that I took part in helping their family continue the memory of the dad or the husband.
So those are, those are super memorable to me. And I don't want to list their names, but those are those three guys are super memorable to me.
One of them is an actual TV host or television newscaster. And another guy owned a franchise gym. And another guy was a very successful author.
So it's just those three guys, you know, their deaths were sudden they weren't expected, but the fact that their family now can have their voice forever talking about them.
Their children that were little will now hear that when they're in their teenage years going my dad passed away when I was little, but I get to hear him talk about me and talk about his relationship with me when I was little.
So now I can understand it. Now I can get a sense of it, right? Because he's hearing the dad talk about it.
So those three are really, really memorable. However, I have three others. And these three are super important to me. And one of them in particular is my interview of my own father.
My father and I had a decent relationship, but not great. He wasn't super active in my life. He was not he was not overly affectionate.
He told me he told me he loved me and all that, but he was he was an old school dad. He was hard knows like it was his way or the highway kind of attitude. That was kind of how I grew up.
You're going to listen and do everything that he says you're not going to disobey in any way. And if you do, you're going to get in serious trouble. I mean he was he was a hard knows dad. And we but it heads quite a bit to the point that when I became an adult and had kids.
And my life in the way that I wanted to raise my family, I realized was much different than how my dad wanted to raise his family. And it caused kind of some some rough times between my dad and I during our adult years.
And we still have a relationship don't get me wrong. We still have a relationship. We still talk. We still see each other every once in a while. They live four or five hours away from me. But our relationship was kind of strained.
And I wanted to have them on because I wanted to hear more about his life growing up to see if there's some sort of connection to who he was then to who he is when I was growing up to who he is now.
He he broke down on that interview. He said sorry to me on that interview. He talked about our relationship and it made me feel special in that I now know that the stuff that my dad went through when he was little is a direct reflection of how he has has was how he treated his family and how he thinks that I should treat my family.
He's all this you know ever evolving circle that just keeps going around and round. And he he constantly told me how proud he was of me and all these things. So that that episode is pretty pretty remarkable. It really opened my eyes to who he was as my dad.
And then and then my two other ones are I had to my both my boys on they they reluctantly said they would join me on the podcast and I got to ask them some questions and stuff like that. So that was more of a fun one.
And then obviously I've had my wife on the show also she and I share our moments together in parenting and I've had her on a couple times.
I think if I had to summarize everything you've just said in answering that question and I had to summarize it in one word the one word that comes loudly to my mind is legacy.
To each of your guests and especially the ones that you mentioned specifically you have left them you've given them a tremendous gift of a legacy that they will always have with them.
The center of this program is based off of Malachi four six which is turning the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers.
And this is exactly what you're doing this is why I have so much respect for your program for your podcast for everything that you're doing it's a tremendous gift so thank you.
Thank you for saying that really appreciate it. How did faith in God become a part of your parenting experience and how is it giving you an advantage over other dads who choose not to involve God.
I grew up in a household that wasn't really big in faith and we I can't remember ever going to church with my parents and so it's been it was kind of interesting that to grow up in a household where my my mom went to Catholic school my dad didn't really go to church.
And here I am my sister and I being raised in a home that you know my dad didn't necessarily know if God existed but he wasn't sure but didn't think you know he wasn't an atheist either but he he also wasn't sure what was up there so he he didn't know what to believe my mom believes in God but not enough to have a solid relationship with it.
As I grew up I started hanging out with a lot of friends and stuff that had different religious beliefs. I went to Catholic school with my cousins because I wanted to hang out with my cousins.
I went to some non denominational churches to hang out with some of my friends because I wanted to go to church because I wanted to hang out my friends.
And then I had a couple of my closest friends were were are still are to this day are Mormons and so I went spent a lot of time at the Mormon church church Jesus Christ the Latter Day Saints.
My basically all of my teenage years and I did that not because I understood what a relationship with God really meant or what a what the impact God could have on me really meant.
I did it selfishly because I wanted to hang out with my friends that's why I did that's why I went.
And so as I got older spent four years in the Marines I went to church a couple times while I was in the Marine Corps and then my wife and I got together we started having kids and my wife said you know it's really important to me that our boys have a relationship with God.
And I said I think I pulled kind of what my dad was thinking I said that's fine I agree with you but we don't necessarily need to go to church do that I can have a relationship with God not have to go to church.
And she said no I understand that but I want them to have a deep connected relationship with God in order to do that we need to go to church and we need to represent we need to we need to show leave by example and bring them to church.
So we started doing that and my faith I believe my faith in my relationship with God my kids got to see me when they were young teenagers I'd never been baptized in my entire life we went to church one day they were doing baptisms and they asked for volunteers and I have no idea that this feeling was going to come over to me but somebody or something told me to stand up.
And it was like enough church full of people my wife my kids I didn't know this was going to happen but I was sitting there they said we're going to take volunteers versus anybody wants to come up and be baptized please please stand up and I sat there and I went something said stand up and I stood up and my wife like looked at me like what are you doing and I they said come on up come on up and I walked up and right there and then got baptized in the church.
And I was a baptized in front of my boys and my wife and I think that was a perfect example of being a role model for them and leading by example to show them what a true relationship with God really means and I think it provided for them basically a framework not only for morality but also for values.
And involving faith in parenting can essentially foster a sense of I guess purpose and guidance it can also help instill principles like you got kindness obviously integrity compassion that's a big one right and in my opinion that is probably the difference between parents who incorporate faith in parenting and those who don't now let's take it a little bit deeper how has teaching your kids to be connected to God spiritually given them the way to do it.
So I think that's really given them advantage over other kids who have not been taught this my boys grew up in in you know faith based home 90% of their friends were you know went to church.
So they had a lot of similarities with the friends that they grew up with they both my boys graduated from Christian universities and so they've gone through private school Christian school from the age of kindergarten all the way up through college.
And so there were friends that they hung out with were pretty much practice some sort of faith or religion but they also knew the ones that didn't you know they went to private school it was a it was a Christian private school and they could see the differences in the kids that had a relationship with God and those it didn't and those it didn't obviously were a little bit more not necessarily outgoing but outgoing in the wrong way if you know what I mean.
I think it being connected to God spiritually I think provided several advantages to them or maybe in several advantages to them that maybe enhanced their emotional or social or moral development and some of those would be like sense of purpose like my boys had a sense of purpose with their relationship with God.
They're they're I talked about it before their framework the moral framework they knew just from Biblical principles and spiritual guidance and spiritual spiritual scripture that their moral framework was in place and they knew what it meant.
And then obviously the emotional support we have their emotional support of not only those that were connected with but our relationship with God as well.
And then one of the biggest things that the Bible teaches us as human beings is empathy and compassion. And so my boys even though they did have friends that didn't have faith in their life my boys still had empathy and compassion for those people and still were able to make relationships with with with other kids that didn't know exactly know what a relationship with God was.
And then the other thing that I thought of when when I was reading this question is our coping mechanisms that learn teaches us on how to cope through challenging times and I think that that's a big one because there's so much in the Bible that can teach us about how to get through difficult struggles that we face whether we're a child or an adult.
And if it's stress anxiety anger sadness whatever the case may be it provides us with a coping mechanism so I think that's probably my difference what I feel in my opinion is my differences between my kids that have a relationship with God and those that don't.
I love that answer I can share my own experience as well with my kids I had one of my sons I have two boys and one of my sons came up to me with a question asking me specifically what he should do in a very specific situation.
And I remember telling him I'm not going to tell you what to do now I'm going to share with you what I would do in that situation and then I'm going to tell you why I would do that and I did.
And then when I was done with my my own explanation or my own answer to his question then I just went back to a biblical framework as you call it I love that that term framework.
It's because it's not it's not specific but it's enough to provide them direction to answer their own questions and to find their own solutions Biblically and that's what I did I just went over the framework with him over the principle and I just left him with that.
And it was interesting in time in time in time in time again I have seen him make good decisions on his own without being prompted I don't have to tell him you need to do this or you need to do that.
He just does things on on his own and I believe internally there is a certain pride that he has that he's able to do that there's a sense of security and a security for being able to do that isn't in me.
It's all based off of Biblical principles so in all reality he is learning to live in faith with God which is everything a dad could or should want for their son.
Now talk to me about the relationship between God the father.
Dad's and their kids how is this link to the concept of the image of God and how is this understanding change how dad's parent.
I think the relationship between God the father and the fathers with their children often draws like parallels in terms of love guidance and nurturing right.
But in many religion religious context God the father is seen as a perfect model of fatherhood he's embodying unconditional love patience and wisdom.
For earthly fathers this relationship can serve as like an ideal to strive for just as like God provides for and protects his children earthly dads all are also called to support and guide their kids through life's challenges.
It includes things like teaching values offering encouragement and even being present in their lives which is something that I talk about a lot right on my show.
But the way God communicates with his children through prayer and scripture and spiritual spiritual guidance it can inspire fathers to engage in open and honest communication with their own children.
And that fosters a sense of trust and security which is I believe in my opinion essential for a healthy relationship.
So I mean how does it how does this link it to the concept of the image of God I think the image of God is basically a fundamental in understanding the relationship between God the father earthly fathers and their children so the theological idea suggests that humans are created in God's likeness right which encompasses various attributes such as reason morality creativity relational capacity.
But reflection of divine qualities means the earthly fathers are often seen as a reflecting certain or often seen as reflecting certain qualities of God just as God embodies love compassion and justice fathers are called to exhibit those traits in their relationship with their children.
But I also think dignity and worth is important to because it recognizes that every person made in the image of God's instills a sense of dignity and worth and fathers understanding this concept can then be motivated to treat their children with respect and honor recognizing their inherent value as individuals that are that were created by God.
But I think fatherhood it's it's a sacred role and the role of a father is seen as a sacred responsibility so by embodying the attributes of God.
Fathers can help their children understand their own identity as beings made in God's image right and reinforcing their self worth and their purpose.
What has been the hardest lesson you've had to learn that has made you an exceptional dad to your kids.
I think one of the things that I have learned was that I had to learn was patience but having you know here's the thing we don't know when we when we become fathers we don't know what we know on raising children except for our own upbringing right our own our own sense of how we were raised and people around us
and how they raised their kids or things maybe that you read other than that we don't really have a sense of guidance and so I think one of the hardest lessons that I have learned that helped me become a better father was embracing my imperfections.
I know that I am not a perfect dad I know that I never will be a perfect dad but accepting mistakes which happen both as parents and in a child's life helps a father to be more forgiving to himself and his children and fostering basically an urching environment where learning from errors is valid.
I also think that communication is another area that I've really had to learn but it helped me to open up on us in communication that I think transformed my relationship with my boys even to this day our communication is still evolving as father and son and I think it's I think communication is one of the most important factors you can have in order to be a successful dad.
I think obviously we know this prioritizing our quality of time right learning that being present and engage is more important than the amount of time spent that can shift a father's focus from quantity to quality and this can help obviously build a deeper connection with our children.
So those are probably some of the things that I had to learn in order to be a good dad or successful dad and there's you know listen I'm not perfect I still I still struggle through things today and I'll continue to struggle through things but as long as I understand the concepts and the things that I just shared with you and know that I'm not perfect and accept the mistakes that I make and learn from them and grow from them I could become better from them.
As long as I am able to become at least one percent better ever day as a dad and a husband then I know I'm doing the right thing Brian it's not very often that I recommend other podcasts on on this program but this is an exception because I believe that what you're doing has tremendous value to the extent that if dads are not listening to your podcast into your message and what you're saying they're actually missing out on the way you're doing.
I believe in the way you're doing.
I believe in the way you're doing.
I believe in the way you're doing.
So I want everyone every dad everyone listening to go to your podcast and to listen to every episode if they do that they're going to it will actually do nothing but enhance their own experience their own connection with their kids so Brian how can dads find your podcast how can they connect with you and learn more about what you're doing.
I'm most active on Instagram it's at data podcast is my Instagram handle.
I do have you know Facebook I have a Facebook group data podcast or data tribe.
I also have you know LinkedIn which is under my name and then I have tick-tock and the other things but I'm most active on Instagram and if you send me a message have a question want to know a little bit more about me or have a certain parenting question.
I get parenting questions all the time through DMs on on Instagram.
I always respond to them and I always communicate with the person when they're asking a question regardless of what it is.
Ask me a serious question need some serious help need some serious guidance.
I've had dads reach out to me. I've had moms reach out to me.
I've had dads and moms reach out to me about each other.
So it's it's it's okay with me and I'm okay sharing my thoughts. Listen I'm not a licensed therapist. I want to make that very clear.
I am not licensed to practice as a therapist. However I do consider myself a professional dad because I've been a dad for a long time and I've been through a number of areas in my life and my boys lives to know how to raise kids the right way.
And so any any help I can provide there I welcome it. It can also reach me on my email and John you got you got my email it's dad up tribe at gmail.com.
I have a team that answers my emails and gets things all set up there as far as scheduling and stuff like that.
But yeah the Instagram's the main one and then obviously you got my YouTube channel which is dad up podcast as well.
And just to make things easier if you go to the fatherhood challenge.com that's the fatherhood challenge.com if you go to this episode look right below the episode description.
I will have all of the links that Brian just mentioned posted there for your convenience.
As we close what is your challenge to dads listening now my challenge to dads listening now. Now listen to me dads take a moment to reflect on your parenting journey.
And I want you to identify one area just one where you can improve or grow just one I'm not telling you to fix your entire life.
I'm telling you to fix one area as a dad where you can improve and grow.
That could be things like engaging in active listening could be maybe planning one on one quality time with your kids practicing vulnerability.
That's a huge one setting setting new family traditions that family traditions are always big in our household.
One of the most important things you can do is the dad is prioritizing self care.
I work out every single day I go for runs I take care of my health because I know if I don't take care of my health I can't take care of my family.
I always express gratitude so that's another one that you could work on.
And then learn something new together something that you guys don't have never done together learn learn something new.
Those are just a few but if you take the challenges some of these ideas or take these this challenge to heart and remember that small changes can lead to significant improvements in your relationship with your children you'll be much better off.
You remember what I said just a few moments ago if I could get just one percent better today than I was yesterday.
I'm doing a pretty darn good job because if you if you add that out even over a year it's only one percent today but if you add that up over a year I'm not sure how much better you'll be a year from now.
If you focus on that one goal so that's reflect on your parenting journey and identify just one area where you can improve and grow.
Brian it has been an absolute honor to have you on the father of challenge.
Thank you so much for all of the wisdom that you've shared with us.
Let's appreciate it.
Thank you very much for having me man. I appreciate it and I'm looking forward to continuing our friendship hopefully one day we can meet in person and maybe break some bread together.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com
That's the FatherhoodChallenge.com
I'd like to pause and thank our proud sponsor of the Fatherhood Challenge Zincaster.
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Got a problem child or teenager that acts out, has serious behaviors or acts aggressively? Are there moments, even frequent moments when they don’t even seem like they’re your child because it seems they have no interest in connecting with you? I invited an expert here with me who is eager to help you understand and connect with your child.
My guest is Certified Human Behavior Consultant and Master Trainer, Karen Wagnon. Karen is also the author of "My Three and Me: A Journey in Parenting by Design," Her mission is to empower and equip parents with the tools they need to cultivate strong, positive relationships with their children.
To learn more about what Karen Wagnon is doing or to get her book "My Three and Me" visit: https://www.teachingouryouth.com/home
To connect with Karen directly, email her at: karen@teachingouryouth.com
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit:https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
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Transcription - Understanding Conflicts With Your Kids
You got a problem child or teenager that acts out, has serious behaviors or acts aggressively?
Are there moments even frequent moments when they don't seem like they're even your
child because it seems they have no interest in connecting with you?
I have an expert here with me who is eager to help you understand and connect with your
child.
You'll hear from her in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood
Challenge, Ingenius Prep.
Ingenius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized
as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions
to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission
by up to 10 times.
Ingenius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves
from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.
In academics, extracurricular activities and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle, Ingenius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy
League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
Ingenius Prep's student success lies within the fact that Ingenius Prep is an all in one
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candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills,
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to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Ingenius
Prep's college experts.
Or you can visit IngeniusPrep.com that's IngeniusPrep.com and let them know you came from the
Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and to challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is a certified human behavior consultant and master trainer.
She's also the author of My Three and Me, a journey in parenting by design.
Her mission is to empower and equip parents with the tools they need to cultivate strong,
positive relationships with their children.
I'm so glad Karen Wagnan is here with me.
Karen, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.
Jonathan, thank you so much for inviting me to join you today.
Karen, please share your story about how you became a behavior consultant and where did
you find your passion to help parents connect with their kids?
Jonathan, that is an excellent question and many people ask me, how did you get involved
in what you do today?
And I often say, have you met my son, Kyle?
Kyle was my challenging son.
But let me take you back a little bit further.
I mean, I always wanted to be a mom.
I love children.
I love the wonder in children as they learn and discover their world.
I just love seeing life through the lens of a child as they go through life with different
experiences.
And so I became a mom.
I was in my late 20s.
So I was a little older than maybe some other moms.
So I had already had a career that I was successful at and then I had my children.
And so of course, I'm thinking is though, I would successful in my career that I would
be a successful mom.
And clearly, let me tell you, I was not.
I was failing and failing miserably.
And I just didn't understand.
Now let me clear this.
I knew how to keep my kids alive.
I knew how to, you know, the developmental milestones, but I really struggled with behavior.
And why my kids were doing certain things that would be the exact opposite in Kyle's
instance of what I'm even asking him to do right in front of me.
And I struggled for many years with defiant behavior from my son.
And it was not until I attended a business conference with my husband that I heard Dr. Robert
Roan from Personality Insights speak on the disc model of human behavior.
Now the disc model of human behavior is used a lot in business settings.
So anything from leadership and team building to to sales connecting with clients.
So it's a model that is used in corporate America.
But as I sat there listening to him, Jonathan, I was like, how does he know that this is happening
in my home?
How does he know so much about my family dynamics?
Because what he was explaining about different predictable patterns in human behavior, although
he was talking about this in the workplace is exactly what I was dealing with in my home.
And I was just so intrigued with what he shared because no one talks about this from the adult
child perspective.
Now look, I had bought many books when I was struggling with Kyle.
I brought the Strong Will Child, which is probably a very old book for many of us.
And I'm probably showing my age, but anything that would give me some insights as to how to
parent this Strong Will Child.
And let me tell you, nothing was working.
And as I listened to Dr. Rome talk about the different personality dynamics of the family, it is
if someone took the cloud clear that my blinders were off and I could clearly see why I was
struggling as a mom, I didn't understand my kid.
I didn't understand the motive and drive behind the behavior.
I kept trying to address the surface behavior, mostly defiance for him.
But if I didn't get to the why that behavior would continue.
So I actually went and purchased some of Dr. Rome's books.
I read the books, I came home, I was trying to apply what I learned.
I was tripping all over myself.
It didn't, it did not go well.
So I went back and decided that I would study with Dr. Rome and he then became my mentor.
So I went through all of his personality trainings, the basic training, master training boot
camp for speaking.
And I realized that I was not alone in this struggle with parenting Strong Will kids.
And many times the strategies that we are given by most experts are what I call the bandaid,
addressing the surface behavior.
But if I did not get to the why and understand the motive and drive, the internal motive and
drive that was driving the external behavior, I was going to stay in a power struggle and
conflict with my son for the rest of my life.
And I just wasn't willing to accept that in my relationship.
I knew I could do better.
I just didn't know what it was, just didn't know what it was.
And so I realized after I started to understand how to apply the model in my family dynamics
that I wasn't the only one that was struggling with this.
And the more I began to share this with, actually I started sharing it mostly in ministry, you
know, with moms groups at churches and women's groups, about understanding the different personality
dynamics.
It just grew from there to taking it into education, classroom behavior management.
So one and so forth.
So that's where it started.
What are some of the top misconceptions about children or teens who are acting out or rebellious?
I think some of the misconceptions is that they're doing it against us.
They are doing it to rebel against us.
When in reality, they're just trying to get their social emotional needs met.
Now of course when we get into the teenage years, and I just had a conversation with
one of my daughters today who's now entering into this season with her third child is our
teens are going to want to push away from us.
And this is the design for them to become independent.
And to us as parents, when we start to see them doing things differently or act differently,
speak differently, dress differently, we start to want to take them back to the time
and our parenting where they loved and adored us and they were a little more compliant.
And so what is happening as we get through those teen years is they are separating from
us.
It's almost like they're pushing away.
I tell parents in my coaching is that they're breaking up with us for a little while.
It's like the breakup.
And sometimes when we break up with people, and I don't know if you've experienced this
Jonathan, but I have, but people just start getting mean to each other so that you don't
want to spend time together.
So if I'm mean enough to you, then you want want to be with me.
And so I experienced a lot of that myself and I'm not going to say it didn't hurt, it hurt
my heart.
It made me sad.
I started to think that I was failing as a mom, but when you understand development mentally,
what's happening inside the teenage brain as they mature and become more independent,
they're not doing it against us.
They're doing it because they're getting ready to become independent, young, resilient
adults.
I think that just lifted a huge weight off of many who are listening right now because
the way this all started out, it makes people feel like when they go through, when they
experience rebellious outbursts, things like that, when you said they're not doing it to
us.
The very first thing when it happens, the very first thing that goes through a lot of parents
minds is that I failed somehow.
I did something wrong.
Where did I mess up?
Where did I go?
And here's a common one.
Where did I go wrong with this child?
We hear that one a lot.
And so yeah, with dads, we try to connect and many times dads distance themselves from their
kids in the early years because, well, you know, they don't feel like they have a place.
They don't really know what their place is.
And so they're like, okay, well, I'll show up in the teenage years and get them ready for
adulthood.
And so they miss out on the bond that they could have had because they don't know how to create
that bond in the early years.
So when the teens become rebellious, there isn't this solid footing of a bond to be able
to go off of.
But in some cases, if the bond is there, that makes the pain all the worse when that teen
is trying to push away into adulthood.
So there are so many instances of that.
And I think what you were saying is going to be healing to so many parents.
It is what I call part of the circle of life.
And I just wrote a post about this, about the grieving that we go through through different
seasons of parenting.
And, you know, I see my daughter right now with her baby who, you know, she's going to be
ending nursing.
And then we start grieving.
That season is ending and that child doesn't need me as much anymore.
And then when they first go to school and they're leaving the home and spending more time
away from us than with us, we will grieve that season of parenting.
And then they become adolescents and they're not as dependent on us anymore and becoming
more independent and peers are more important than family.
And then we grieve that.
And then, you know, that last season is when they head off to college or they get married
and start their own family.
And then we grieve that again.
There's so many seasons of parenting in which we will grieve the changes.
And I went through that all of those seasons myself.
And especially with my last one, when it was the last one, I think I really bottomed out
because so much of my world was with my children.
But I've done my job.
I've raised them to be strong, independent young adults.
But I loved my kids.
I love spending time with my kids.
But I missed the seasons that we had before and it was hard.
It was really hard.
And so when we normalize that we are going to be sad when this happens, then we know that
it is part of that circle of life.
And so what that caused for me, Jonathan, and I'm just going to be honest with you is I had
to reconnect with Hubby, you know, because sometimes the kids are the buffer, right?
You know, like, and now the kids are going as like, we don't have a buffer anymore.
Do I still know you?
And we still have a relationship together.
And one of the first things Mark and I did when Anna finished college and we were ready
to have our life together is we actually went to a marriage, just to make sure we had
to reconnect with all the tools that we had early on in our marriage when we fell in love,
to still be in love.
But there are definitely seasons that we will go through in parenting.
But we need to lean in and celebrate and recognize that we're doing our job to raise
responsible, resilient young adults.
The good news that I see in this is that no matter what season or stage that your kids
are in, at some level, they will always need you and they will always want you and that
connection.
They will always want some kind of connection from you.
And when you pass on, they will grieve that that is no longer there at that level.
So you are always, always wanted.
You know, they just need us in a different way.
You know, I went from obviously being the sole provider and nurture of everything to then
becoming almost like the parent coach, just coaching and guiding my kids.
You know, I got to a point where I needed to what I say, you know, having boundaries, but
then I needed to open the gate and make the boundaries a little wider and let them roam
and have more opportunity to make some decisions on their own, to find their successes and struggle
through their failures and problem solve and become resilient, resilient young adults.
And you know, it's not always easy for us as parents to watch our kids fail or struggle.
And I tell parents that we're not helping them if we enable or take that pain away.
It's very similar to, you know, the caterpillar in the cocoon when it struggles to come out
becomes the butterfly.
But if we see it struggling, we try to cut the cocoon and let it out, the butterfly will
die because it didn't have the fight.
It didn't build the resilience.
And what I'm finding in some of the new parenting strategies is that pendulum has swung the
other way where we're trying to do so much for our children and not let them struggle,
not let them feel pain or sadness, that we are enabling them, that everything will be easy
and that's not reality.
That's not reality.
You know, we need to teach our kids and every time they struggle, these are learning opportunities
to not take it away from them, but to allow them to experience the consequences of their
choices and even the successes of their choices.
What are the creators of the parenting blueprint?
What is this blueprint?
How does it work and how can dads apply it?
Oh my goodness.
So as we talked about earlier, my introduction to understanding personalities and I just found
this so powerful because it gave me Jonathan a deeper insight to my kids.
So there's plenty of parenting strategies out there, but what works for one child is not
necessarily going to work for the other.
So using the understanding of the disc model and the personality dynamics, I put together
a program as we all know, our kids don't come with manuals, but I say you can develop a
parenting blueprint based on the temperaments of your child.
And so I just dug deeper into helping parents learn more about the personality dynamics,
not between the adult child, but even the whole family, all the different personality
dynamics in the family.
And look at the strengths that we have in our relationship, the compatibility that we have,
the struggles that we may have in our relationship because of our differences and diversity of our
personalities.
And then put together the most effective strategies.
It's not a one-size-fits-all approach to be able to parent our children according to their
design.
And if you have more than one child, I know you do and I do too.
Each one of them needed me in a different way.
My son Kyle, as I talked about before, he's very strong willed, he's more of the dominant
and cautious, he's very left brain.
I had to be very direct and very firm with him because if not, I don't think he thought
that I meant business, okay?
But if I was direct with my daughter Anna, who's much more of the supportive and cautious,
very sensitive and reserved, if I was direct with her, she would feel as though I was yelling
at her or I was upset with her.
And so I had to change my body language.
I needed to change my tone.
I needed to change the way I communicated.
And it's not that it's right or wrong, it's different.
As we mentioned before, our kids will always need us, but they will need us in a different
way.
And when we understand that they're not cookie-cutter kids, look, I gave birth to these children
and I'm looking around thinking, they came out of the same gene pool.
They're my children.
Why don't they think an act like me?
They look like me.
You know, like we are in the same house, we have the same expectations and they're all
responding differently.
What is happening here?
Because God is wired each one of them different.
They are nicked together in our womb.
God is designed that.
It's part of their DNA.
I cannot change it.
But our goal as parents is to help our children become the best they can be according to their
design.
Not try to change them or alter them, but help them become the best they can be according
to who God designed them today.
So it has been an incredible journey because there's a lot of parenting programs out.
There's a lot of parent coaches out there, but this philosophy takes families different
by using the foundation of personality assessments to put together, we put together interaction
guides and graphs and we can see the plotting points of all the different family members
and we find where the gap is.
The gap is the diversity and the differences and when parents see the gap and the differences,
it's almost as though, aha, there's nothing wrong with me or my child.
We just see life differently.
Yes, you do.
Now how do we put together strategies that we can close that gap of understanding and be
able to have better interactions and communication where that child feels seen, heard and understood
for who they are and not always trying to be changed to be who they're not?
See, I guess not even knowing I was doing this, I was expecting my kids are going to think
like me.
I gave birth to them.
Part of my gene pool.
Why was this happening?
Because there is differences and we need to, now look, our family values and morals did
not change, but it was the way we communicated when about doing that, influencing that that
needed to be different.
So how can dad apply this?
You asked that question.
Fathers are so important in the lives of our children.
Our sons will probably become like the dad and our daughters will end up marrying someone
like the dad.
I think there's many statistics that show that.
And so the role of the father in the lives of our children in the way they model their relationship
with their children, the relationship with their wife is so powerful.
It's not what we say.
It's what our kids see us do that they will remember and they will continue.
And so when dads truly understand the diversity of their kids, as you said, Jonathan, sometimes
dads will take that step back because they just don't understand how to embrace that.
This is a tool of understanding.
This opens the door for them to then nurture their child in a different way because they
are going to be different.
We have that diversity.
But when fathers can see life through a different lens, now they can lean in to build a more
positive relationship and respect and develop the diversity in their child.
You spoke earlier about how your approach to parenting is different between say your son
and your daughter.
And that reminded me very much of the concept of the image of God, the way God reacts and
deals with us from one individual to another can be very, very different because he knows
us intimately.
He knows each personality and every nuance, every difference in that personality.
So he knows exactly how to talk that to that person to be able to affect the change that
is required for their well-being.
And the one common thread and the way he deals with both in their differences is love.
Everything is done out of love and everything is, and I'll go as far as to say the word.
It is sacrificial with the best interest of each individual in mind.
And it's the same way with how you are parenting your own kids.
And that's what I saw there and I thought that was interesting.
It's unconditional love.
It's celebrating the child you had and not mourning the child you wish you had.
You know, when parents are struggling with the child who thinks and acts differently and
they're not driven to accomplish maybe the goals that the parents have done or wish their
children would do, that can be so harmful to the confidence and self-esteem of the child.
And so when parents develop their parenting blueprint and they see how their children are
wired, then we can adapt our interaction and encourage them to be the best they can be
and helping them build that confidence to achieve and go out and be independent, you know,
adults in our community and in our society, but if we are crushing their spirit because
they're not living up to our expectations, you know, I think I fell into this trap awhile
back that, you know, when my kids did well, it made me feel good.
If my kids did not do well, then it was a reflection of my parenting.
And that's, I wasn't going to let that happen, right?
And so I was driving my kids to do what, to meet my needs instead of being aware of what
their needs are and helping them just be the best that they can be.
And if I can do that, everything else falls in place.
And I also had to adapt my expectations of each one of my kids because I saw them in a
certain way, but my design wasn't, or, and goals were not necessarily what their goals were.
And so I had to go alongside them and guide them in, in their interest and the things that
they were interested in doing and, and walk with them alongside to see if something was
going to work out, rather than be critical of it to be able to explore options with them.
And not force what I felt that they should do.
Now again, I talked about having those family values and expectations that did not change,
but when our kids start developing their personalities and interest, how can I encourage them
to explore that so that they can find, hang on to this one, to understand their personality.
And so they can seek their passion and find their purpose.
And if we don't allow them that freedom to explore different options in their life, they're
not cookie cutter kids, not all kids are going to go to college, not all kids are going to
own a business, they're all not going to be doctors and lawyers, which, you know, to many
parents, that's what success looks like.
I just wanted my kids to be happy with who they are and have happy, happy lives because
they are comfortable with who they are in this world.
Karen, you're the author of My Three in Me, a journey in parenting by design.
What can readers expect when they read this and who is this book written for?
So Jonathan, I've been speaking because I've been doing what I've been doing for 20 years.
And so my husband had always encouraged me, you need to write your stories, you need to
write your stories because I would tell the stories.
And people would be asking if I had a book.
And so I finally, you know, did write this book.
And so in the book, I do give the overview of the disc model of human behavior.
So parents can have a better understanding of the different characteristics that they
will see in the personality style blends because no one is just one personality, Jonathan.
We are a blend of all four of the styles, the dominant, inspiring, supportive and cautious
to a greater or lesser degree.
That's what makes us unique.
So I open the book by giving an overview of what the disc model is all about.
And then I start telling stories of my three in me, in other words, how I was raising the
different personalities in my home.
And some of the things that parents may experience in their day to day interactions, anything
from parenting a toddler who you would ask not to do something who would look you right
in the eye and do it anyway.
Oh my goodness, what do I do with that?
Where other kids might be a little bit more passive and weak to you.
Leave the room and then touch it, right?
But then some of the challenges in school and how to build their confidence.
But with each of the stories that I share, I have an action plan.
See, as a dominant personality, I'm all about getting results.
And so I can tell stories, but I want people to learn from, from what I'm sharing with
them.
In other words, what are you going to do differently in your interaction with your students?
So you don't have all of the challenges that I had in parenting my kids.
So I'll tell stories about what I became aware of because of the personality styles and
then allow the parents to go through their action plan.
So it's done as a guide so that they can start to reflect back on some of the behaviors
that may experience with their children, what they may have done in the past, but what they
may need to do differently to reduce the conflict, increase the productivity, and maintain
that positive relationship through every season of parenting.
I absolutely love stories.
Would you please share some stories of dads or parents that you've helped?
Hmm, okay.
Well, let me start with my husband.
So Mark and I are a blended family and so we have seven children and Mark and I are both
certified in this information, but he did not become certified until he went through his
divorce and he actually felt as though he didn't know his children.
And when he went through certification, he became more aware of not only his personality,
but how he could be a better father to his kids.
He actually sold all of his businesses, Jonathan, and he came home to be a dad.
And that's when he dug into really getting to know his children.
Not just be the provider, come in and be the disciplinarian as many dads can be sometimes,
but truly start changing the diapers and preparing the meals and taking walks or going on bike
rides, like really engaging it then.
And I'll tell you, as hard as it was prior to his divorce because he was working multiple
jobs and maybe not spending as much time at home, the relationship he has with his children
today are amazing.
When I work with couples, I really love to see how the dads lean into the understanding.
We'll start with this.
Most of us, not everybody in our marriage relationship, we tend to marry our opposite
personality.
That's the case for Mark and I.
I am more of the dominant.
I like to kind of be in charge and control and I'm a little more structured and Mark is
more of a supportive.
He's kind, he's steady, he's stable and he gives the kids the past when I'm trying to keep
the rules.
And so we will marry our opposite because it fills the void that we may have in our own
style.
So, I mean, I was attracted to Mark because he was very calm and he was very patient and
I was not.
And he was attracted to me because I was more a decision maker and I got things done.
So we often say that opposite is a tract and then opposite is a tack, but that's a whole
other story.
But when I work with families, very similar to our dynamics where we have parents with different
parenting styles, can you see, I don't know if you've experienced it in your household,
but that we have different expectations of our parenting outcomes of how we're going
to approach different things.
And so when the dads do get involved and realize that they just have a different approach,
it's not right or wrong, it's just different.
We need to recognize, but who is the dad, your child needs right now?
Not that your parenting style is right or mom's parenting style is right or better, but what
does the child need?
And it changes everything because we go back to meeting the internal emotional needs of
the child and not expecting the child to meet our internal emotional needs.
And so there are many dads that I've worked with that have very different parenting styles
that knew that they needed to adapt their interactions and apply a different strategy if they wanted
to maintain a relationship with their kids.
I had one dad who was very, very laid back where the mom was a little more hyper, probably
like me, and he tended to have a wonderful relationship with the daughter when the mom would
escalate too much.
And so with that, he was modeling where sometimes through adolescence that she just needed
to let something slide and not get into all the emotion with some of the sassyness or
backtalk coming from their daughter.
He handled it differently and she was able to learn from him.
And then I had another couple whose, who the dad was wanting the kids to have more responsibility
and to be able to do more things on their own and develop their own internal leadership
style.
And the mom was more overprotective and fearful of letting go and allowing those opportunities.
And so it was within the couple dynamics being able to identify, it's not right or wrong,
it's different, but what do we agree on as a couple to be able to do this?
What I find with the fathers, and I mentioned this before of how important they are to be
engaged in the relationship is that they have more, I don't want to use power, influence,
let's use that word.
They have more influence than they realize when it comes to what they model and the way
they engage in the relationship with their children.
And once dads see that they can adapt their communication style, that they know how to engage
with their students at the different, with their children at different seasons of life,
they are developing relationships that they may never have experienced before.
Karen, how can dads learn more about your coaching or ask questions or even get your book?
Yeah, well, you know, you can go to my website, www.teachingaru.com.
You'll see a tab for the author there and a link to get the book.
The book is also on Amazon, so you could do that.
And of course, at the website, you'll find more information on the parenting blueprint and
some of the other things that I do in supporting educators in schools as well.
If you'd like to reach out to me personally, you can email me at Karen@teachingaru.com.
You can let me know that you've listened to this particular broadcast and let me know
some of the challenges you have going on and let me see if there's anything I can do
to support you with that.
And just to make these easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I'll have all of the links that Karen mentioned posted right there for your convenience.
Karen, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
Oh, dads, lean in, lean in, get to know the heart of your child, understand their personality,
how God wired them and parent them, train them to be the best they can be according to their
design, embrace the child that God gave you and let them see who you are.
Let them understand your humility.
Sometimes we don't want our kids to see that we struggle with anything.
And there are certain personalities that are very guarded with that.
But be real with your kids.
Not necessarily the authoritative parent, authoritarian, I should say, where we're just expecting
that blind obedience from our kids.
But get to know your child, ask questions and listen, and then ask more questions and listen
some more.
I often say God gave us two years in one math we need to use them appropriately.
And with my personality style, I have to continue to remind myself of that.
But to really engage with your kids so that they know that you hear them, you see them,
and you're willing to embrace the diversity that they bring and encourage them to be the best
they can be according to their design.
Karen, your message has been a breath of fresh air for me and for my audience as well.
Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Jonathan, thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
When you wake up in the morning, do you feel beat up, like you got hit by a freight train and you just want to roll over and go back to sleep? Is it hard to get through your day without a nap or drinking several cups of strong coffee? Do you feel like you have no energy left for your family at the end of a work day? My guest understands what this is like and joins us to talk about how you can naturally increase your energy, upgrade your fitness and improve your quality of life.
Drawing from his fifteen years of experience as a competitive powerlifter and combat sport athlete, a wilderness and hiking guide, and a dad, Josh Wood has developed a holistic approach to fitness grounded solidly in the pragmatic and the natural world.
To connect with Josh Wood, get coaching help or resources visit: https://strongforlife.online/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachjoshwood/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Fitness for Dads
When you wake up in the morning, do you feel beat up?
Like you got hit by a freight train and you just want to roll over and go back to sleep?
Is it hard to get through your day without a nap, drinking several cups of coffee?
Do you feel like you have no energy left for your family at the end of the day?
My guest understands what this is like and he will join us shortly to talk about how you can naturally
increase your energy, upgrade your fitness and improve your quality of life.
So don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge in Genius Prep.
In Genius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm
proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants,
helping students prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized educational programs
that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times.
In Genius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from other competitive students
in three areas, colleges evaluate students in academics, extra curricular activities and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle in Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools,
268 offers from top 20 schools and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
In Genius Prep student success lies within the fact that in Genius Prep is an all in one consulting firm
offering every service of family needs, whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship,
academic mentorships, the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses,
writing courses and other customized programs to develop their application persona
to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Genius Prep's college experts
or you can visit ingeniousprep.com that's ingeniousprep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are
to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is TEDx speaker, educator and fitness expert Josh Wood.
Drawing from his 15 years of experience as a competitive powerlifter and combat sports athlete,
a wilderness hiking guide and a dad, Josh has developed a holistic approach to fitness grounded
solidly in the pragmatic and the natural world.
Josh, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thanks for having me.
Okay, I gotta ask, what is your favorite dad joke?
A man is out of funeral for his best friend and it's obviously a very somber occasion and he steps up
and asks his best friend's wife, "Hey, do you mind if I say a word?"
And she's like, "Of course, you were his best friend."
And so he gets up in front of everyone.
He looks with great seriousness at all the crowd and the friends.
And he says, "Plessera" and steps down.
And with a tear in her eye, his best friend's wife says,
"That means a lot."
Oh, that was good.
So thank you.
Oh, that's how I like to kick things off.
Let's start with your story.
How did your fitness journey begin?
So I'm 35.
And my fitness journey started when I was 17.
I believe.
Yeah, I was 17.
So I was in Rochester, Minnesota working at a computer repair shop.
And one day I'm sitting there and I'm like,
"I am undersized, skinny kid, eating garbage all the time."
And I just had this realization like, "I don't want to be weak and scared of everything
for the rest of my life."
And so I was like, "Okay.
I'm going to learn kickboxing."
Because for whatever reason that is what the first thing that came into my head was.
And then I did some research and some looking around.
And there was nowhere to learn kickboxing.
So I was like, "Okay, well that's not going to work."
But then I found a, in Rochester, there used to be, it's closed for a bunch of years now,
but an old Irish family run boxing gym that was in an old auto shop, converted auto shop to
boxing gym. And in the corner of that gym, there was a Brazilian guy named Mario Roberto.
And he had a match on the ground.
And he had a little corner of the gym and he taught mixed martial arts in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
And I started doing that.
And I mean, I'm visiting Minnesota right now, I normally live in Tasmania.
And I've known Mario for 18 years.
And every time I come to town, we catch up.
But that's where I started my interest in health and fitness.
From there, did you feel any calling to do anything else from that? Or was that just more
personally to get yourself kind of bulked up in a better shape?
Well, the bulking up didn't happen until I was in mid to late 20s.
But it was just a personal interest thing. Just like, you know what? I need to have
some physical capacity in life.
I need to not be so concerned with confrontation and doing difficult things.
I needed to be tougher. I needed to have more grit.
And I needed to be comfortable with physical altercation.
And from that, I followed that path for a number of years.
I moved around a lot. So I did that for about a year.
But that happened then.
So then I went over to the UK for about six months,
backpacking, and then came back for about six months and started up with a
martial arts club out of the community college.
And then moved to Australia and continued to train on and off as I moved around a bit,
a little bit here, a little bit there. And it was all just personal interest. But after a bit,
I was like, you know, and I need to, I want to learn more. I want to learn more about the body.
And so I started pursuing a career in massage. And I learned massage and studied that in
Rannick Clinic, like a clinic space for maybe seven years. I ended up working at a school in Melbourne
and teaching massage for about six years. And while I was in this phase of everything about
learning to work with the body and understand the body and treat the body, I then started studying
training professionally and coaching people. Because I kind of had this realization that I didn't
like working in a clinical setting where people came in and they complained about what was wrong.
But didn't want to do anything about it. I was like, nah, this is silly. And I found that in fitness
and personal training and coaching that people are in a better spot. They're there because they're
willing to do the work to make the changes that lead to the life they want. And I liked that
side of things better. And that's what I've been doing. I started coaching group classes and
personal training in 2011, 2012 somewhere around there. There are so many dads struggling with
their energy levels and not having nearly enough energy to give their family the way they would like
to. How did they start that change? It's such a big one. There's one word that answers all those
problems and it's priorities. Wow. Have to understand your priorities because you know what? And no one
likes me to say this because the internet is full of gurus who say you can do everything, but you
can't do everything. It's impossible to do everything and you always have to sacrifice something to do
another thing. And that means you need to know where your priorities are. The next question I really
was going to ask was about work balance for career dad. How do the balance physical fitness,
family and work and do all well, but it sounds like there really isn't a way to be able to make that
balance correctly. Well, you can do it correctly, but you can't do it perfectly. So the issue is,
you know, you have to understand what has to be done now and what doesn't. And one of the big things
with that is, you know, we, depending on what season of fatherhood you're in, you know, like I've
got two young kids, but when they're old enough to sort of go off inducing on their own, you have
more time, but when you're in the trenches with babies, you have to sleep, you have to eat well,
you have to do the minimum requirement to stay functional, but you're not going to, and that,
you know, everyone's different, but you're probably not going to pick up a new sport when you have a
newborn. You're probably not going to start training for a marathon, but if you can eat well and
sleep as much as you can, so you're functional and healthy, you're going to be winning. And then when
time starts to open up, then you start investing more into the areas that are most important to you.
So it really starts, it has to start first with you, your, your basic needs, good nutrition,
eating well, water, all of those things, getting as much sleep as you possibly can, depending on
if you're in the early stages, you probably aren't getting much, but getting that figured out as best
you can. And then work in your way out for outward from there, because really it sounds like if you
haven't made your own health and wellness the priority, you're not going to really have much to give
your family. Bingo. Like this, this is, this is the truth of it. And you know, to someone who's
always had too many things going on. And like I've always had a skill or athletic goal that I've
been working towards, you know, I competed in, in boxing for a number of years and powerlifting,
and I've done a bit of strong man. And last few years has been traditional archery. I used to
spearfish a lot like, you know, through seasons and things that I like to do. But when you have that
time, you could do that. But if you're not getting enough sleep, all that is not worth your time.
If you're not eating well enough to avoid the 50 pounds that new dads tend to put on,
you're, you're not prioritizing right. And you know, the first thing is sleep. If you're getting four
or five hours of sleep a day, and you're like, oh, but I'm not getting to the gym every day. It's like,
yeah, well, you need to prioritize and sleep is number one. And if you're eating garbage because
you're exhausted and stressed out all the time, the gym is the least of your worries. Preparing for
some sort of athletic endeavor is the least of your worries. Hit the basics first. Get your sleep right,
get your food right. Make sure you can recover. Make sure you can do what you have to do as a dad,
because that's priority number one. And then you can add stuff in when you have the capacity. And if
you're working a high demand a job or yourself employed like me, you know what? That's what you need
to do. Take care of your family. That means that has to take priority in most cases. But you can't do
that if you're not sleeping well and you're not eating well. So it also comes back to a quality of
life. If you're not healthy, if you're not where you need to be taking care of yourself, it's really
hard to fully appreciate your family. I mean, if you are around your family and it's in that's
supposed to be quality time, but you feel all the time like you've been hit by a freight train,
you can't really enjoy that. So that's incentive enough to want to make a big change. And sometimes
that might mean pulling back on everything else to be able to get that. But man, I mean, I would ask
dad's listening, wouldn't you want that full experience to be present and not just feel like
garbage when you're when you're around your family? Yeah, it's and this is coming from a guy who's
always picking up too many hobbies and things to do and has been self employed. He's almost my
whole adult life. It's hard when you can't be as productive as you want to be and can't be
accomplishing all the things that you feel like you need to do as a man. But and this, you know,
take taking me two kids to figure this out that you have to really understand your priorities and
understand that your first priority is your family and you are going to have to take a backseat in some
aspects for a little while. It's not forever, but it's for a little while. What does good nutrition
look like for for dad? Let's just say somebody that needs to make a change right now and they're
going into their next meal and they need to start now. What does that look like? If we're getting into
specifics, it would be making sure you hit your protein goals above everything else. There is no real
goals for fats and carbohydrates for someone who's not athletic or someone who is not looking for
high performance. Most dads, most average dads do not eat enough protein. They do not feel like they
are being nourished and they tend to then overeat garbage and snack and drink and things to make
themselves feel better. But if your body is nourished, you have a lot less of those cravings.
So the very first thing you should be doing is making sure that every meal you're hitting your protein
requirements. At a bare minimum, you can look at the size of your palm. So the width, height, thickness
of your palm, I think I need to have at least one to two servings of protein about the size of my
palm with each meal. And when I talk about protein sources, I mean dense lean protein sources, things like
chicken beef fish, you could do low-fat Greek yogurt. Eggs are a really quality protein source,
but they're not a high protein source. So if you're going to use them for your protein needs,
you probably need three to four at a minimum. And just focus on making sure each meal is built
around hitting those minimum protein needs. Because not only does that help you feel fuller and
help maintain good blood sugar levels throughout the day, but it helps you maintain lean muscle mass,
which you need to be functional. I know so many dads that are either type two or type one diabetic.
So if we really follow the diet like this, like you just described, we could curb so many
chronic illnesses that are centered around diabetes. Absolutely. Let's move on to caffeine.
Is caffeine good or bad for fitness? For fitness, it's great. It's one of the most researched
and common drugs in the Western world. And we've had research from almost a hundred years ago on
the effects of caffeine. It's a great, ergo genic aid. It makes you perform better and makes you work
harder when we're talking about exercise and fitness. It's a very handy legal performance in
hand-sing drug. From a health perspective, if we look at the literature in almost every case,
and I'm talking about caffeine coming from things like coffee, like there's a lot of highly sweetened
garbage drinks that have caffeine. And that the effects of those are not necessarily related to
the caffeine, but if we look at caffeine from coffee and caffeine in general, the people who consume
coffee more up and till about four cups a day tends to have more beneficial health outcomes than
people who don't drink coffee. So we find that caffeine and things like coffee tend to be beneficial.
But there's the individual component. Do you get anxiety? Do you get the shakes, the sweats? How
much are you drinking? Is it affecting your sleep? If we keep our dosages under four cups of coffee
worth a day or a cup or two in the morning and you keep caffeine ideally at least 10 to 12 hours
away from sleep, it shouldn't affect your sleep too much. And it's a net benefit not just for
health outcomes but for performance as well. So I think it's a very useful thing. I think the
the literature shows that it's actually a healthful thing as long as you don't have a
what a poor reaction to it. Because some people are chronically anxious. And if you're stressed out
and you're anxious adding caffeine to the mix is a detriment. The other thing is if you have to have
lots of caffeine to function in your day, you think that might be a really clear warning side that
everything else is is really really out of balance. Like we're not talking caffeine to work out to
enhance your workout routine. This is like I've got to have four to eight cups of coffee in the morning
when I get a just a function just to be able to get going. If I don't do that, I'm crabby and I can't
focus. I'm sleepy all day, I yawn all day long. I'm just so is is that really a warning sign?
Yeah, absolutely. There's there's the issue of it being you know it is it is an addictive drug
and you become habituated to a certain amount. And if you want to feel like you used to after
having cup of coffee, you have to have two cups of coffee and then you adapt and habituate to that
dose and then you have to have more. And so we do have this this ramping up addictive effect of
caffeine as well. But like you said, like the big thing is like this is a warning sign of something
and you know what if you feel like you need that all the time it's probably because everything
else your life is falling apart and you need more sleep. And this is where we come down to priorities.
It's like you know what if you have to get up and you've had a crappy night sleep with a new born
baby who's keeping you both up all night. Well you know what if you have to have two three cups of
coffee to get to work, get it done. It's another season in your life you got to do what you got to do.
But if you have the ability to say not stay up late watching Netflix because that's your you time
and I deserve it. And you know I'm doing this for me and whatever whatever excuses we give
ourselves if you just go to sleep earlier or and this is the thing I talk to a lot of young parents
about two is know when you have babies in the house you are not working on you know an eight to ten
hour sleep schedule anymore you're working on a 24 hour sleep schedule so your goal for you and your
partner. Your wife is to get the required amount of sleep over 24 hours you know if you need eight hours
to function you might not get it all at once but if you can take some naps you're still going to get it.
So learning how to adjust your sleep schedule and your attitude around going to bed early
and around naps you're going to deal with a lot of those issues better so you know like I always say
your adult take a nap you can do that fine time taking nap fine time or try to get the bed earlier
if you know you have to get up at five don't stay up till 10 30 watching TV if the kids are in bed
if the baby is asleep you go to sleep that's a that's great advice I've heard the whole sleep thing
described as like a bank and it completely changed the way I thought of sleep I thought of sleep is
the so if you only get four hours of sleep well that's it once you're up there is no making that up
it's gone and so your only way of of recovering whatever you lost from that is by the next
night getting a full eight hours so what you're saying is if you only get four hours you get you only
at four hours but at some point during the day if you have three hours to go and take a three hour nap
that may not be realistic or maybe break it up into two hours here one hour there you can
that still counts towards your eight hours absolutely it's not ideal because sleeping
consistently for a longer period of time tends to be better but this is actually something that
we we see in how professional athletes manage their recovery you know if we look at what athletes
needing so high level athletes typically need around 10 hours of sleep a day but they're busy too
they might have night games they might have early morning games they have travel and stuff like that
so the idea is to always get their 10 hours approximate sleep across the day so they might be
sleeping on the bus or on a plane or taking a nap before they go to training that kind of thing
it's on a 24 hour schedule and if that's what you have to do that's what you have to do
and it might help to reframe it in terms of you know what treat yourself like a professional athlete
so for that person that really has trouble getting to sleep they're anxious their mind won't shut off
they're they're just fidgety they just can't get settled in and get to sleep quickly or when they
get to sleep they're up maybe once or twice during the night is that often a sign that they're not
getting enough exercise and can exercise fix a lot of those symptoms uh can be so it could be an
exercise thing and that they're not actually inducing enough fatigue across the day but it could also
have to do you know with lift life stresses but also sleep hygiene you know if you've spent the last
hour before bed staring at your phone that blue light continues to stimulate the production of
cortisol which is the hormone that wakes you up uh sleep hygiene and the systems you have around
going to bed will affect not just how long it takes to fall asleep but your quality of sleep
you know caffeine some people like I could drink a cup of coffee before bed and go to sleep like cool
you can fall asleep but everything we know about how caffeine affects sleep tells us that it
decreases the depth and quality of sleep even if you're technically asleep so you're having
a poorer sleep even if the length is the same by having caffeine before bed you have a
harder time getting to sleep if you've been exposed to a lot of stimulating things like blue lights
coming from screens or like stimulating TVs and movies and things like that so having a system of
reducing exposure to blue light you know keeping less lights on using warmer tones to your lights
reducing screen time within the hour before bed uh you know maybe not eating a whole lot before
you go to sleep keeping your caffeine 12 hours away from your normal bedtime like all those things
coming to how well and what the quality of your sleep is so we're having a discussion the general
theme is is fitness I never expected to spend a good portion of this conversation around sleep
which just that by itself should say everything we need to know about how important sleep is to your
health why it matters so much so let's go out and look at a broader perspective of things so from what I
understood about fitness there is a there's three components to it there's there's a physical there's
a mental and there's also a spiritual component to all of this what does that look like when they're
all in harmony and why are all of those important for dads that's an interesting one so a lot of people
just do exercise because it's good for them but if you're finding and this is what I want to say to people
a lot and you know new clients and things like that is the best workout you do is the one that you do
the one that you can continue to do for a while it's not about the perfect you know optimal session
in the gym it's about what can you do forever and I think when you find a style of movement that you
enjoy that is physically rewarding that keeps you mentally stimulated but also excuse me also
fulfills that aspect that brings you joy you know a lot of times it's things like martial arts or yoga
things that cover all those bases you know find something that you enjoy and is stimulating and
gives you the physical benefits and you put all those pieces together you're going to do it forever
and the most important thing you can do is stay moving forever that's a completely different take on
on fitness I think a lot of dads are scared or maybe not scared as the word but they are just
anxious about getting started because they think that on day one they they have to bleed in the gym
I mean they have to really just just you know they have to get shredded in a month and if they aren't
seeing that kind of results in a month well they're not working hard enough and they're like I
just got off the couch how am I supposed to to bulk up like that and in you're saying
physical fitness is is not limited to just bulking up it's just it's a matter of getting off the
couch and and just getting moving doing something most average men don't need to bulk up I have too
much bulk as it is and this is a discussion I have with a lot of new clients too is
if you've spent the last 20 years doing nothing and adding non-functional weight to your body
you're gonna probably need six months to a year for each year that you've been sedentary
to reverse it like this is not a quick fix situation you spent 20 years putting yourself in the state
how do you think it's just gonna disappear in a month or six months or even a year that's absurd
and you know what what I usually start people with is you know this might be my blows of minds here
it's it's pretty cutting edge stuff but when I get people that I've been sedentary for a long time
the very first thing we focus on is walking if you're not walking there's nothing I can do for you
like it's the most basic form and easiest and healthiest form of exercise you can do is walking
and if we can get people hitting in step count is a pretty popular way of looking at this because
easy to measure but if we can get people moving more regularly every day weights just gonna fall off
they're gonna feel so much better and then we focus on building the body and building the strength
and building the physique that people want but if you just go into the gym and like you said a lot
people go in and they smash themselves and they just burn themselves out on their first session
you know that's how often can they do that not often most people do that and they're sore for two
weeks and they come back two weeks later and they're sore for two weeks and it's just a not a productive
or sustainable system I'd rather have someone go in at 50% effort two three or four times a week
and do that consistently because you will get better results if you're working at 100% once every two
weeks that's only like a 50% effort averaged across those weeks but if I get you in going 50%
four times a week where you're not hammered where you're not broken after every session well 50%
four times a week is 200% you know that's a much bigger amount of total work and potential gains
across time than just going and hammering yourself I know for me this would be something that would be
I you know you might be able to outline it for me on paper or whatever but I would get much better
results from actually having a coach having someone guide me through exactly how do I do this
and I think there is a vital accountability component that a lot of people starting to work out
routine or regiment absolutely need so this goes into my next question I mean how can a dad get a
hold of you for help or coaching or to learn more about what you're doing well you hit the nail in the
head so because I work with a lot of men and dads you know the number one issue we get into is as guys
we think we can figure everything out and do everything on our own but I know a lot of guys in their
40s and 50s who've been saying that for 20 plus years and just happen to be getting worse every year
this the issue is accountability someone to not just give you the plan give you the answers to the
questions that you have but keep you on track in the long run and that's that's so important so if
anyone is interested in can contact my website is strongforlife.online my business is strong for
life online coaching I work with people all all over the world you know us Canada Indonesia India
Europe got a guys in Ireland New Zealand Australia like everywhere because with online coaching
it doesn't matter where you are so strong for life.online if you have questions I got a lot of free
resources I've got a guide on there that's just about going to the gym for the first time it's called
the beginner gym guide you know that's that's a free sort of free thing I've got my eat like an
adult guide learn the basics of creating a healthier relationship with food that's free like there's
so many free resources on my website or on instagram at coach Josh wood uh you know you don't have to
pay for anything you could just get all the free resources and you're going to be in a better spot
just to make these easier if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com
if you go to this episode look right below the episode description I will have all of the links
that Josh just mentioned posted there for your convenience and Josh as we close what is your challenge
to dads feeling discouraged and struggling physically or emotional to take those first steps take a
minute sit down get a piece of paper write out all the things you need to do and number them
in order of how important they are you have to understand your priorities if you don't know where
your priorities lie you're gonna keep trying to do everything at the same time and everything you
do is gonna suck you need to understand what's most important and nail that get that right first
and then move on to the next one Josh it has been absolutely an honor having you on the fatherhood
challenge thank you so much for being here and encouraging dads to step up and to take those first
steps thank you thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge if you would
like to contact us listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find
out more information about the fatherhoodchallenge please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com
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This episode is dedicated to and about military dads. If you’re actively serving or a veteran and you’re trying to find purpose and balance in fatherhood, you’re going to want to stick around for this episode. My guest will share his story and journey from being a soldier to being a veteran dad.
Joseph Peck is a successful Vice President, Financial Adviser and father. But before that he was a soldier and he’s here to share his journey into fatherhood.
To learn more about Joseph Peck or connect with him.
Email: josephgpeck@gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-peck-a81932116/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
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Transcription - How Veterans Find Purpose in Fatherhood
This episode is dedicated to and about military dads.
If you're actively serving or a veteran and you're trying to find purpose and balance in fatherhood,
you're gonna want to stick around for this episode.
My guest will share his story and journey from being a soldier to being a veteran dad in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge in Genius Prep.
In Genius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants.
Helping students prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times.
In Genius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.
In academics, extra curricular activities and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle, Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers,
from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
In Genius Prep's student success lies within the fact that in Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting firm
offering every service a family needs, whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships,
the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses and other customized programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Genius Prep's college experts.
Or you can visit in Genius Prep.com that's in Genius Prep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and to challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their families environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Joseph Peck. Joseph is a successful vice president and financial advisor and father, but before that he was a soldier and he's here to share his journey to Fatherhood.
Joseph, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Hey, it's my pleasure, Jonathan. Thank you for having me.
Joseph, what is your favorite dad joke?
I have been telling this joke even before I was a father when I was in high school, I was giving a presentation and the computer stopped working, the PowerPoint stopped working and it was me and my partner working on the presentation, standing up there, staring at about 60 adults.
And I pulled this joke out and it has never ceased to fail me. It is hands down my favorite dad joke, so this is the way it goes.
There are two muffins in an oven. One muffin turns to the other and says, oh my gosh, we're in an oven.
The second muffin looks at the other one and says, oh my god, you're a talking muffin.
[Laughter]
Yeah, that is awesome.
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that with us.
I love that the way this show starts, so thank you.
So Joseph, please share your story from what made you want to join the military and what was your experience like while you were in?
Absolutely. I wanted to join the military pretty early on since I was in early teenager and I really just wanted to serve the country.
I was kind of hot-headed like a lot of young men are.
I wanted to do things that were exciting. I wanted to travel the world. I liked confrontation.
So I was very much stereotypical, I guess you could say, for the kind of person that would have listened to the military.
I decided to and listened to the Air Force and that's what my grandpa did.
My grandpa was in listening to the Air Force and I got put into the pharmacy position.
So I was a pharmacy technician for the first several years.
That was okay. It wouldn't have been my first choice as a job to be in the military.
But I did that for several years. My wife and I had our first child while we were there.
And we decided, you know what, we want to go back home. I'm out of Arizona.
We wanted to go back to Arizona and at the time, the Air Force was doing a program to where you could go from active duty to the reserve
and you could finish out your contract in the reserve.
So doing one weekend a month and two weeks of the year instead of being full time.
And so I did that. And as soon as I got back to Arizona, they called me up and said,
"Hey, you're going to go to training. You're reactivated for six more months."
And I went to golf port Mississippi and I trained to be in the Civil Engineering Department,
the Civil Engineering Group, to where I did construction for the military for the next six years.
And being in the reserve, I was activated off and on. I would do six months. I wouldn't do anything.
I'd go back to civilian life. I'd do two weeks, go back to civilian life, deployed for six months, go back to civilian life.
And I did that until 2022 when I finally got out after 10 years.
What was your transition like into fatherhood? What were some of your personal struggles and how did you deal with them?
My transition into fatherhood was a lot different than most. My wife and I have known each other since we were in high school.
And we got married at 19 and 20 and we had our first son at 21 and 20.
So I was very, very young. Being a dad, I was working 12 hour days, gone all the time.
So it was very abrupt transition into fatherhood.
You know, I would say the most difficult thing for me personally, of course, was that I was gone all the time,
but it was coming home to my wife who had, she, she, she was uprooted from her entire community to come be with me and marry me,
you know, on the other side of the country from where she lived.
And being coming home to see that she was really isolated and she didn't have a community and she, we were,
we didn't have a lot of money, we had one car, she really couldn't go anywhere because I was at work all the time.
The most difficult thing for me was the complete and total responsibility of two living beings
that I was now completely responsible for. And I hadn't thought of that before. I was excited to become a dad,
I was excited to be a good husband, which I tried to be and I wanted to do all these different things.
And then it kind of smacked me in the face that, hey, you're 21 and you have a ton of responsibility now
to put food on the table but also be an emotional support, right? And be a mental support and be pretty much my wife
and my son's entire community because we were very isolated.
That was, that was a heck of a struggle and the transition was bumpy and you know, I'm not going to lie,
it was bumpy but it's a team effort in my opinion, right? Between me and my wife, it was a complete team
effort to transition into parenthood and I can't speak for everybody but as far as myself and my wife,
we really became very, very co-dependent. We really depended on each other and we leaned on each other
a lot. In some ways it seems like really that transition actually brought you closer together.
You know, I would absolutely agree. We talk about it frequently nowadays because that was,
you know, a long time ago. All of the bad things that happened and, you know, there was a lot of
drama when I left active duty and went to the reserve, family drama career drama. There was a lot of
things that happened that led up to that decision and, you know, the events around that decision
and the events around that action and it really grew us closer to get it because to be quite honest,
we didn't really have anybody else. It was just us too and I think it really did make us stronger
than ever and it made our bond with our son very incredibly strong and it made the unit that we
were, the small, you know, three person unit, it made us unbreakable and it ended up paying off
dividends in the future, absolutely. And now we have four boys so I've got four sons and I like to
think that we are very strong as ever just because of all of the diversity we went through.
That's interesting. I thought I just heard you refer to your family as a unit. Interesting.
Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I think that, I think that nowadays, especially because,
from my point of view, the nuclear family is absolutely under attack. The nuclear family isn't
what it used to be and it's very much going away. You have to be very defensive in my opinion.
And that's not to say that we're a unit. Nobody's allowed inside of our inner circle and everybody is
warbled. No, no, no, no, you don't need to be negative and pessimistic about it. However,
if you've got some traditional standards and morals and ethics, those are very popular nowadays
and you have to be very particular about the people you allow in your life, the environment you
put yourself in your children around and it's very much a unit. The way we run our family is
very traditional, very nuclear. Me as the father, I'm the head of the household, I'm supported by
my wife and my sons, they are our team members. They do what they are told, they follow our rules,
but they support at the same time and they understand that we teach them the reasons we do everything.
One of the funniest things that I really think that a lot of especially younger parents don't realize
is your children are always listening constantly and they do not forget. You can test this out with
promising your three-year-old ice cream if they behave. You promise them ice cream, they are not
going to forget that you promise them ice cream from a god old on the way home that day.
I'm going to forget that, right? Well, just yesterday, Jonathan, there's a really old movie called Black
Beards Ghost. It's a really, really funny movie about this little lodge in the New England area.
These three sisters are descendants of Blackbeard and it's a Disney comedy, very PG, very funny. It's
from the 60s or 70s, I think, and it was one of my favorite movies grown up as a kid and I introduced
it to my kids. Now I haven't watched that movie in probably six years, so my other two sons, my
youngest two, weren't even born. My second oldest though, his name is Demetri, he was really young. He
was probably, I think, three last time we watched it. And as God is my witness, Jonathan, I'm not joking
just yesterday. He looks at me. We haven't talked about this movie in years. We haven't seen this
movie in years and he goes, "Dad, do you remember this part in Blackbeards Ghost?" And he just starts to
describe this entire very, very funny scene. I see him and I go, "How the heck do you remember that?"
So I kind of bring this back to my original point, "I promise you your kids are listening and they
do not forget, I don't care how old they are, they are listening and they won't forget."
So to treat my children that way and to treat them like a unit and to treat them like a team,
I'll be a little bit of heart sometimes, I'll go, "Hey, don't pull that with me. You remembered Blackbeards
Ghost from six years ago. Don't pretend that I didn't tell you to pick up your room, right?" So
you know, we need to call the little band and say, "Hey, I know you can remember this. I know you can
do this because you remembered the most obscure movie scene that you shouldn't even remember at three
years old. I know you can remember to do this." And my children understand that responsibility
and we do explain things to them, quite frankly, like their adults. We talk to them like their adults,
we talk to them like their people. We don't dumb things down for them or baby talk or anything like that.
We absolutely set the expectation and don't get me wrong. We're not standing out there because I've
got chickens and we're not standing out there and saying, "Okay, my seven-year-old, you need to do
all of this by yourself." No, you still understand that he's seven, but they are a member of the team
and they can act accordingly and my children do that because we treat them that way. If that makes
sense. That makes a lot of sense and I really appreciated everything that you just said. I remember,
my brother-in-law was a former Marine and there was a big struggle when he got out because
everyone he served with and served around. I mean, they were his brothers. They were family to him
and to make that transition into home life was definitely a struggle. I remember us actually
giving him something with the rifleman's creed reworked a little bit. This is my family. There are
many others like it, but this one is mine. Trying to get him to make that transition over and to
seeing his family as family in the same way that it was in the military and in some ways that
was a challenge and in some ways we saw that stick a little bit. One of the things about
coming home and being back around the family and trying to view it the same way as the
experience, the environment that you left having those brothers, having those friends that you
can really depend on. One of the things that I was told when I got back from deployment is listen.
You're going to come back and you're going to try to be the father of the house. You're going to try
to be the headhunt of the house. My old chief, chief Faye, he looked at all of us and he goes,
"If this is your first deployment and it was mine, he goes, don't do anything." He said, "When you get
back, you need to gently reintroduce yourself into this environment. You've been gone for six months.
They have a routine. They have a method and whatever you're going to come in and do, you're going to
mess it all up. That's just the nature. Your wife is going to get mad at you. Your kids aren't going
to understand. You are going to mess everything back up and being a dad, I was an NCO, a non-commissioned
officer of Staff Sergeant. I'm used to kind of taking authority. I'm used to kind of taking
responsibility and taking initiative and doing things and running things the way that I foresee being
very successful and just running with it and saying, "No, these are the ways we're going to do."
Now, even though my chief told me that, I'll tell you right now, it all went right out the window.
I came back in. I tried to be, you know, dad again and my wife just kind of looked at me like, "What
are you doing? We don't do that. This is the time that they take their naps. This is the time we
eat lunch. This is that." And I was like, "Whoa, what is happening? All of a sudden, I wasn't,
I was dad, but I wasn't a part of that unit anymore." And that was really, really difficult to
experience and the kind of comprehend that, right, even though I left for six months, back home didn't
stop. So I was automatically closer to my team that I just lived with and been through a deployment
with for six months. That was my own team. Those are the guys I was close to instead of my own blood,
instead of my own children, instead of my own wife. I'll say, when I got home, I left when my
second, I only did one tour. I left when my second son, the same child, Demetri, he was six or seven
months old and I got back when he was just over a year. And it was super difficult because he didn't
even recognize me. So when I got home, he was actually terrified of me. He wouldn't come near me for
about a week, five or six days, and he like that. He wouldn't come near me if I got close to him. He
would scream and cry. You know, he didn't know me. He didn't know me. I wasn't a part of this team. I
wasn't a part of this unit anymore. I was completely this foreign person. Now, you know, before that
gets too sad and too down the dumps, don't worry. You know, after about six or seven days, maybe five or
six days, he started to recognize me as the guy that they would do video chat, you know, two or three
times a week. Okay, I think I know who this guy is. And then he really got to realize that, oh, this is
dead. So my son and I are very, very close now. I worked from home a lot. He cries if I'm in my office
for too long. He doesn't see me. So we're very, very close now. Thank goodness. But I think something like
that, getting the rifleman's creed and reworking to be a father, I think that that's beautiful. And
I think that that's a great idea. Something I wish somebody had done for me because the truth is
is that you're absolutely giving up your support system and you're trying to reintroduce yourself into
what you think your system has always been because it's home. It's what you should be used to. It's
what your safe place, quote unquote, should be, but it's not. So I think something like that to reaffirm
that this is your unit, this is your team, this is where you belong. I think that's a beautiful thing.
The military has the stereotype of being very difficult on marriages, difficult on families.
And so I'd like to look at it a little bit differently and ask, how did your military experience
help you to become a really good dad? You know, that's an interesting question because that's
a tough question. And I think any veterans that are out there listening right now, they're probably
going to laugh at that answer because it's true. Being in the military, can I have to make you a great
dad or it can make you a really horrible dad? You know, we see the stereotypes of wake up at five,
have the kids make their bed and you know, kind of the old movie from the 80s or 90s major
pain style parenting, you know, and then there's veteran dads that aren't there at all right because of
like you said, hard on marriage and a divorce or they're not there because they don't want to be
and they can't handle it. There's a lot of different reasons for it right? For me, I think the
military made me a good dad just because it made me want to be home more. It made me when I was home,
I wanted to focus on it more. I see it a lot of time, this isn't a criticism, this is just an
observation of today's society which is when people get home, it's dinner, cell phone movie bed,
wake up, breakfast, work, home dinner, cell phone movie bed right? And there's not,
there's not a lot of necessarily interaction right? Which people can run their families as much as
they want. For me, what it made me do is because I was gone so long, I was gone so many times. And to be clear,
in the military experience, I was home a lot more often than most vets. I did one tour in the Middle
East and I did a couple of stints of training. I was home a lot more than your average veteran. And
when I say this, I hope that that kind of tells people just how gone most veteran dads are, most
veteran husbands are. Because when I was home, it made me obsessive about being present. I would turn
on the blue screen and gray scale on my phone so that my phone wasn't interesting to look at. So if I
did look at something, I would get off of it in 30 seconds instead of getting in the doom scroll,
right? Where you're sitting there for an hour and you're down this rabbit hole of are there
giants and lizards underneath the Denver airport. You know what I mean? But you know, without getting
into something like that, it would help me reassess and come out of it and spend time with my kids,
put my cell phone down, not watch as many movies, maybe read a book or play with play with my child
in a game they came up with or something like that. So for me, I think what the experience did for
me is that because I was gone often, but again, not nearly as often as a lot of other vets, it made
me really want to be present that much more. One or three things you wish civilians understood
about veteran dads. I think that the main takeaway is more of wishing that civilians understood
veterans a little bit more. It's just that we think about things differently. We attack certain
scenarios differently. We're typically on average more disciplines. So if I had to say anything,
I would say I really wish civilians just understood that you're probably not going to understand
it too much. And to kind of give a little exposition on that, my sister-in-law is a CNA at the VA.
So she's an assistant at the Veterans Affairs Hospital here and one of them here in Phoenix.
And my family doesn't really get my humor. It's pretty dark humor. And I've worked really hard
over the last 10 years to kind of mitigate that exposure to my family. And my sister-in-law
said, "She gets it. Let's just say that." Because she works around these veterans and they're not,
they're not, they don't self-center necessarily. So they don't, they don't sugarcoat any of their
jokes. They don't sugarcoat what their humor really is. Whereas me, you know, I've worked very hard.
I'm a clergyman in the church now. I've worked very hard to curb my tongue. I used to have, you know,
the mouth of the sailor, they would say, "When I was in the service, I've worked very hard at
curbing and censoring a lot of the things that come out of my mouth, as well as what entered my brain."
My sister-in-law gets it because she sees a completely unadulterated, you know, very raw form of what
military humor is. And so I would say that civilians can understand anything. Just try to understand
that there's a lot that your average 22-year-old in the service has been through, that your average 70-year-old
civilian has not. There's a lot that they've seen and a lot that they've experienced in just four
years or five years out of high school. And while it's almost incomprehensible for the average civilian,
you don't necessarily have to understand it. Don't degrade it, though. And that's something
that we see a lot. You know, there was that viral TikTok that came that went through of the
the group of like five people. There was one dude. He was marine and listed. And there was like this
college grad PhD in microbiology or something like that. And she fancied herself the smartest person
in the room. The marine and listed dude was just kind of like whatever really degraded upon kind
of made fun of. He turned out to be the smartest one with the highest IQ. So don't degrade our service
you know, don't degrade kind of what we did. I think support, support is the number one thing, especially
foreign listed. I can't tell you the amount of experiences I've had as a prior and listed guy
where I've, because I've worked in the corporate world now to where it really seems like most of
these veterans programs and a lot of these veterans careers, a lot of these initiatives are
or what these corporations are looking for are officers. They're looking for
mild, more mild mannered than your average and listed college degree. And that kind of experience
instead of actually trying to set up what the majority of the military is, which is enlisted.
So I'd say it's support. If you can understand and help with anything, just support. You're not going
to truly be able to step into the shoes. Don't try to. It's a little bit more offensive when people do
try to honestly, but just support. Tell them that you're there for them. What kind of support systems do
veterans need in place to make parenting easier? The support systems that have worked the best for me
were my family. I come from a very healthy, very supportive family. My mom and my dad and my brother.
I only have brothers and I only make sons. So I'm from a very testosterone-fueled environment.
I would say family support going back to that same thing that I mentioned. You're not going to be
able to put yourself in their shoes, but you don't have to just be there for them. And then the other
thing that has been continues to be and always will be super helpful for me is faith. My belief system,
my church and my friends at church, whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam, whatever it is,
I've got my opinions of course about which is the right religion and etc. However,
if a support network is there, take advantage of it. I'll give my opinions all day as to
which, you know, theology is the best. I can do that. This isn't that conversation right now,
but one of the things that all religions do very, very well is support for their people. And I think
having a basis of faith, believing in something bigger than yourself, number one, that's a very large
part of a spirit of core in the military anyway, you know, believing in something bigger than yourself,
but continuing that when you get out and having that basis of faith, that number one, there is
something bigger than yourself. Number two, your mission is not over. Your mission is not over when
you get out of the service. God still has a plan for you. And having that community around you
is really important. When I got out of the cert, when I got out of active duty,
and I was running an inpatient pharmacy, I was running an inpatient hospital pretty much,
all the clinics and all the medication for the entire hospital. I got out, I was 21,
and I had just been running this multi-million dollar operation. And I was only qualified to
pretty much file papers when I got into civilian service. That's all I would be hired for is to be
a waiter or to be an administrative assistant at God knows what company. You know, that really hits a
guy's ego. And for guys like that, we're in the army or the Marines, I just was running, you know,
you know, a 20 million piece of equipment, I was running a tank and I was responsible for 15
souls out on the battlefield. And now I'm stocking shelves. I think it's imperative that guys and girls
that were in the military, you have to understand that there's a bigger plan for you. Your mission is
not over. You just have to find it and the things that the family can do and the things that the
community of whatever religion that is, temple, synagogue, church, whatever it is, they can help you
find that next mission because jobs not done. And that's neat to understand that. There's always
there's always more to do and you are valuable. I think that's the most important thing.
I'm glad you brought up church because it's a lot of times, you know, we do have veterans in the
church and we have several veterans in mind. And at first, there's this awkwardness of what do we do
with them? How do we relate to them? How do we work with them and cooperate? And I think the most
important thing that I seem to get out of what you're saying is what veterans need and want the most
out of their church family is exactly, well, I said the word family. They need a simple,
it's as simple as that. They need a family to integrate into. And then the other component of it
is leadership. They bring so much, they bring so many skills, leadership skills, education skills
that they can offer the church that can actually help the church's mission advance.
Absolutely. Yeah. You can't put yourself in their shoes, right? You're going to be a doctor,
you're going to be a lawyer, you're going to be an IT tech, you're going to be whatever it is in
the church. And I get experience that walking in, people know that I was in the military and
they kind of just kind of stare for a second. Okay. I walked into my uniform one time when I was fresh
out of boot camp because I had to leave in my uniform. I couldn't wear civilian clothes and everybody
just kind of stared at me, right? You can't put yourself in my shoes, but you can be there for me.
You can be there for them. Don't try to, you know, when you have kids, everybody says,
oh, well, I'm a dog mom or a cat mom. And I absolutely respect that, but I got to hate it when
people say that. Listen, having a dog in a cat is nothing like having a child. So in that same sense,
no offense to anybody. In that same sense, you can't say, well, you know, when I was going through
a really rough time, waiting tables for 16 hours, it was probably pretty similar to when you were
getting bombed in Syria, right? No, it wasn't. But it wasn't. Don't try to put yourself in those
same shoes. It's not going to work. It's not going to happen. And it's really just going to upset,
not just the veteran, but probably everybody around you. Also, they're going to be like, dude,
what the heck, right? But you can be there for them and go, listen, I have no idea what it's like to
get shot at. I have no idea what it's like to get bombed even for guys that separated from the service
right after bootcamp. The average civilian has no idea what it's like to get off a bus at 18 years old
with all you have is a bag to your name. And all of a sudden have six full grown men screaming at
the top of your lungs at you at one in the morning. Civilians have no idea what that's like. And that is
the very beginning of what the military career is like. That is the initial, that is why they call it
basic training. That is the very basics of what it's like to be in the military. 99% of civilians
have no idea what it's like to be screamed at like that for hours on end in the middle of the night.
So don't try to, you know, say we get it, you don't, but it's okay. Just be there. Just support,
just help in any way that you can, whatever that specific veteran needs.
How can veteran dads or families of veterans get in touch with you to ask questions or get help
with their journey? Absolutely. So again, I'm a, I'm a vice president and financial advisor at a
broker. I love helping vets get work, get jobs. I'm very connected in the Phoenix area, all throughout
Arizona. Please do not hesitate to reach out to me. I've got an Instagram, which is triple one,
TRI PLE, the number one underscore JGP, Juliet Galf Papa. So triple one underscore JGP. I've also
got a LinkedIn, which is just Joseph Pack, reach out to me via LinkedIn. Again, you'll see vice president
financial advisor on my bio reach out to me through there or just shoot me an email. And the email is
nice and simple. It's Joseph, the letter G pack at gmail.com. First name letter G pack at gmail.com.
The number one reason why I'm on this podcast in Jonathan, thank you again for having me on,
is because I want vets to know that it's okay and I am here to help. And there's a lot of people
here to help. But a lot of times, and I myself included vets won't speak up,
you can't do it by yourself. And it's okay to ask for help. And it's okay that you can't do it by
yourself. That's the message I want veterans to have. Reach out, call somebody, talk to somebody,
and if you don't have anybody, email me. Please do it. I'll help you get a job. I'll help you find
a place to live. And I mean that sincerely. Just to make things easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com,
that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I'll have all of the links that Joseph just mentioned posted there for your convenience.
Joseph, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
For all dads, I would say that can hear me be present. You know, be there with your family,
put the phone down, put the movie away. It's cliche to hear, but the kids grow up fast,
and in an ever-changing world, in a chaotic world like we have right now.
Dads and fathers are crucial to have to raise the next generation. And they need you to be present.
Be there with them, support them, and take your life out to dinner and buy your flowers. She earned it.
Joseph, on behalf of myself and thefatherhoodchallenge, thank you so much for your service to this
country, and thank you so much for being on thefatherhoodchallenge. My pleasure, and thank you, Jonathan,
for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program,
or find out more information about thefatherhoodchallenge, please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Dads, have you ever wondered what’s going on inside your children's minds? Would you like to know what they’re thinking? If you had a chance to learn ways to strengthen your child’s mental health, to help them feel safe, loved and confident would you take that opportunity? That chance is now on this episode. My guest is Psychotherapist, Keynote Speaker and Parent Coach Nicole Runyon.
To learn more about Nicole Runyon or book a discovery call visit:
https://nicolerunyon.com/
To connect with Nicole Runyon on social media visit:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolerunyonlmsw/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/igenerationmentalhealth/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Guarding Your Kid's Hearts and Minds
Dads, have you ever wondered what's going on inside your children's minds?
Would you like to know what they're thinking?
If you had a chance to learn ways to strengthen your child's mental health to help them feel
safe, loved, and confident, would you take that opportunity?
That chance is now on this episode.
So don't go anywhere before we begin.
I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge in Genius
Prep.
Genius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially
recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare
for admissions to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances
of admission by up to 10 times.
Genius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from
other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.
In academics, extracurricular activities, and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle, Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy
League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
Genius Prep's student success lies within the fact that Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting
firm offering every service a family needs, whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy,
building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership, and innovation lab, soft skills
courses, writing courses, and other customized programs to develop their application persona
to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of
Genius Prep's college experts.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and to challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings, everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is psychotherapist, keynote speaker, and parent coach, Nicole Rennian.
Nicole, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to talk about this.
Let's dive right in.
Nicole, let's start from the beginning of how you got into coaching parents and helping
them understand their child's mental health.
What's your own story?
Well, so my story starts when I was around 10 years old.
When I decided that I always loved children, I was one of the oldest in my family, my siblings
and my cousins.
And I had just really felt like I wanted to go into something that made a difference in
children's lives and helped them.
And psychology was just always an interest of mine.
And so I ended up having a private practice where I specialized in seeing children.
I've done that for about 21 years.
And in the last 10 years or so, I've noticed sort of a major shift with this generation
of kids.
And the shift was that I was seeing mental health cases in front of me with these very severe
symptoms with no root in any kind of trauma or any psychosocial issue that I could attach
it to.
And in my training, I was always taught to see the child in the context of their environment,
which for a child is their family or their community or their school.
And when I would do digging into these kids' lives, I would find that for the most part,
everything was intact.
I mean, sure, there were some things to work on.
Maybe some family dynamic stuff to work through.
But nothing that would warrant the symptoms that I was seeing.
And so I kind of started asking myself, what's happening with these kids?
And this was 10 years ago.
So nobody was talking about the effects of technology on child development.
That was at the time, the only thing I could pinpoint as to the reason why we were seeing
such severity in mental health cases.
And over the last 10 years, I've sort of developed more of an understanding and an idea
of what's all encompassing for them.
The technology is absolutely a big issue and as of fact, they're development, but the parenting
is also really struggling right now.
And so I decided that rather than pathologize the child and put them in the chair of the
mentally unhealthy person, I thought, you know, if I could just work with the parents,
I really think I can make a difference for these kids without even really having to see the
kids at all.
And it's, you know, really just been amazing.
The changes that I've seen in families so quickly since I've switched to coaching parents
rather than seeing children.
That's absolutely amazing being able to focus on the parents as the solution.
There is a really, really big gap that I see there.
Two sides of it.
Yes, I see one side of it with technology, stunting children in a way.
And I also see technology, stunting parents.
So there's a mental health crisis going on with kids.
It's been flooding the ER rooms.
What can dads do about it?
Dads are really key here and really important.
And the reason for that is because dads are usually typically very good at discipline and
boundaries and holding space for kids.
Dads are kind of the strengths and the strong pillar of the family.
And what I see a lot happening with the mental health crisis is kids are not getting what
they need in terms of structure and discipline.
So what I mean by that is there's too many choices.
And there's too much permissiveness.
And so that's creating a lot of anxiety for kids because it doesn't feel safe for them.
It may be what they want and they may resist the rules and the structure and the discipline,
but it's actually what they need.
And so dads really can provide that.
And it's not that moms can't.
It's that what I've seen in families is dads are really taking a backseat and it's often
because they don't know what their role is anymore.
It used to be, you know, I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember
the days when moms used to say, well, just wait till your father comes home.
You know, because dads were--
I do remember that.
Yeah, right?
Because dads were always sort of that kind of that strong disciplinarian.
And when I say discipline, I don't mean, you know, corporal punishment, not by any means.
Discipline has gotten a bad rap because of that because it used to be that.
But discipline can come in many forms and it can simply just be, here's the rule, here's
the boundary, you need to respect it or there will be a consequence.
And that's really what's missing in today's parenting.
You know, one thing that I noticed in families when I coach couples is that moms will often
say, well, I do it all, I don't get the help, I'm overwhelmed, I'm overburdened, and dads
will kind of chime in and say, well, I try and help, but it's never right.
And so I'm often trying to help moms allow dads to step in even if it's not the way that
you would want him to or exactly how you think he should just give him that autonomy
and that freedom to jump in when he sees FET because dads really need that confidence.
And that's a huge thing missing in families.
And it's affecting the kids.
Okay, I didn't expect you to go there and I'm so glad you did.
But you said that dads don't know their role very well anymore and I think you're absolutely
spot on with that.
I think that is so, so true.
And a lot of this has to do with different social pressures that are out there through the
media, which I don't know, may or may not be why you're saying it's been so destructive.
But there are these pressures that are out there, all these new narratives that are out
there and then dads are afraid of making mistakes or doing the wrong thing and so the safest
thing to do is nothing at all.
That's right.
And I think we're on the same page there as far as where this started because yes, I
think men are no longer allowed and society to be strong or, you know, to be like that
person that says, hey, no, this isn't okay.
And here's your consequence because you didn't do what you needed to do.
And that really has been a detriment to kids.
You know, we wonder why there's so much anxiety.
Anxiety comes from a lack of feeling and control.
So there's this inner chaos.
You don't feel like you trust yourself or you're confident enough to work through whatever
those feelings are.
So you try to control your outer world.
And kids are able to control their outer world now more than ever because parents are
allowing them to.
You know, a lot of parents will come to me and say, you know, the kids are ruling the roost
and we don't know, you know, we don't know what to do.
We don't know how to, how to reel them in.
You know, oftentimes one kid in the family, the scapegoated kid or the one that the parents
want to be in therapy, they'll be the one sort of controlling the whole family dynamic.
And I think we have this concept of, you know, toxic masculinity and men can't be men anymore.
And so yeah, they've taken a vaccine and they don't know what their role is because that is
their role.
So what are they really there for?
I'll often have dads and couples that I coach that will say, I don't even know that there's
a reason for me to be in this family.
I mean, it's that extreme for them because who are they or what are they if they're not
that sort of that pillar of strength?
I also see a flip side of that, which is mothers that are just flat out burnt out.
They're overworked.
They're overstretched on their time and everything and they don't have a father that's present
in the kids lives parenting equally putting in that same amount of work and the mothers are
doing all of the work.
The dads are checked out and somewhere they've gotten that message.
It does backfire.
There is an image out there that the mothers can do everything and they don't need men.
I think most of that might be for the best way to put it is a defense mechanism because
that may be the hand that has been dealt them and that's the circumstance that they find
themselves in for a variety of different reasons that that could possibly be.
But that isn't necessarily what we should be aiming for.
That isn't the goal.
That isn't the standard and that isn't what it should be.
I think a lot of mothers out there would actually like a little bit of help in parenting.
A hundred percent.
I'll tell you what, I think we as working mothers have been sold a bill of goods because
we were told, I mean, I'm Genox and all through my childhood.
I was told that you could have it all.
You could have the family and the career and it was definitely romanticized and looked
upon as the ideal.
And when I first got into it, having a career and a child, in my career, I was in private
practice.
So I peeled way back on the amount of clients that I was seeing when I had my first child
and even still, I was overwhelmed and overworked and overburdened.
So the reality of what I was told as a child was not happening.
I was a bit disillusioned by that.
And I think many women, my answer was to try and control everything.
My big wake-up call was when I had my second child, my kids are five years apart.
So when my second child came along, there was a huge adjustment because I had one child
for five years.
And I remember just being exhausted, of course, the new mom and trying to juggle everything
and my husband had made my oldest breakfast one morning because I was sleeping.
And I woke up and I went into the kitchen and I noticed he had used the wrong spoon to mix
the oatmeal, the wrong spoon, right?
And I had enough sense in my new mom's haze to not say a word because I knew that was
a me issue and I thought, wow, I guess I really am in need of a lot of control and I have some
work to do here because if I had given him a continue, I know I had given him that energy
before but if I had continued to give him that energy, I would have never gotten the help
I needed.
And I would never be in a place right now where I really feel like I have a partner because
I allowed it.
So this is what I think women need to start kind of understanding is we're not the victims
here.
But if it wasn't done to us, we sort of did it to ourselves.
Now it wasn't our fault because we were told we could have it all but now we need to recognize
guess what?
You can't have it all unless you have a partner that is willing to put the as much work
in as you are.
It's just nearly impossible unless we get even more technologically advanced and clone
ourselves, it's not going to happen.
I love the general generational component that you mentioned.
I'm also Gen X and we're known as the Lachkey kids and I remember my mom working all of
the time and a lot of times it seemed like I raised myself.
So I can only imagine that same image that that Gen X women especially have gotten.
The new message and the message that you're saying is that it doesn't have to be that
way and it shouldn't be that way.
That's right because what happened is the second wave of feminism told our mothers that they
should go to work and there was no conversation about one how that was going to affect the
family and two how the family was going to have to adjust to mom's going to work.
So what ended up happening is Gen X kids mainly got neglected and now us Gen X kids have
teenagers.
In that wound of neglect, we swung the pendulum too far into the other direction and us
Gen X working mothers over did it because we said, well, we don't want our kids to feel
our absence like we felt our mother's absence.
Uh-huh.
Yep, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's a detriment to Gen Z Gen X's children because they didn't get enough of that like
you said, like you learned how to rely on yourself.
They didn't get enough of that because the moms swung too far and while they were swinging,
they left the dads out because their example was that their dads weren't involved in their
lives.
Dads were very bewildered as well with that second wave of feminism.
They weren't used to that either.
They were used to being the providers, the ones that went to work every day and then suddenly
moms were in the workforce and they just continued to just go to work and, you know, not participate
in the family afterwards.
So there wasn't enough conversation around how to have both parents working.
And I think we're doing a little bit better now, but I can tell you, I see a ton of couples
with this issue where mom is overdoing it and she doesn't have to be because dad is
willing.
And this is what I love about dads.
They want to be there.
They just don't know how.
Let's change gears a little bit.
What are the top three things kids think about and want to know from their parents, but may
not ask verbally?
I think that kids want to know that parents are people.
I think today's kids are over-indulged and I think parents don't have enough boundaries.
I tell parents to share with your kids, hey, I'm a person too and I have needs.
And, you know, I think that kids should know about that.
They don't know to ask certainly, but parents need to be having those conversations.
I think kids also need to know that a boundary means love.
It doesn't mean you're mean or you want to hurt them or you don't want to make them happy.
And kids, thirdly, need to know that negative feelings are a part of life and discomfort is
a part of life.
And parents need to be able to be uncomfortable in themselves to hold the space and provide
their kids discomfort because that's life.
Is there a war between social media use or technology?
It feels like a war to me.
Yeah, I mean, it's a strong word, but it's also a very strong energy that is coming at
families today when it comes to technology and media and social media.
And the war is really about connection versus disconnection.
And that's inherently at the foundation of it.
And so, you know, parents and kids are always arguing about screen time and what's too much
and what's not appropriate and what is appropriate.
And at the end of the day, American families, well, I think this is global, so not just American
families, but families in general are disconnected, right?
I mean, like we said, everybody's working, everybody's exhausted, everybody's burdened and overworked.
And so families are just checking out at the end of the day, parents and kids.
And so I think if technology were taken out of the mix, at least even just intentionally
for some period of time during the day or night and families and families had a chance
to just be together and have silence and just talk or connect in some way, that we could
actually start to get somewhere with this issue.
Your husband is a girl, dad, correct?
Yeah, we have a boy and a girl.
How has he been a great role model to your daughter through your marriage?
Well, the first thing is what he's modeling for her with the way that he is a husband.
You know, he's a gentleman, he's loving, he's kind, he's very much a partner.
He cooks.
And he actually made me dinner on our second date and that was one of the things that really
got me.
I thought, wow, a man that can cook is a man I want to be with.
That's amazing.
And the other thing that he provides for her is just a really like strong, loving connection.
He adores her and she adores him.
And when he needs to, not as much as I would like, because I think she's a daddy's girl
and he's easy on her.
But when he needs to, he's got some good boundaries and is providing just like a very safe, loving,
you know, connection for her.
What about your son?
What kind of a message is your son getting from the father that he sees?
Similar to my daughter, he's seeing how his dad treats his wife and that's a really good
model for what we're trying to teach him.
And I think that seeing a man who is strong and vulnerable is really important.
And so my husband is able to express and communicate his feelings and get some emotional
sometimes.
And my son sees that, you know, boys have feelings too and it's okay to express and communicate
them because that doesn't mean you're weak.
In fact, there's a lot of strength in that.
What is your greatest accomplishment as a parent and what would you say is your husband's
greatest accomplishment?
I think for me, my ability to self-reflect and recognize what my issues are and how
that's affecting my parenting and not just be aware of it, but actually make changes
that I need to make is, you know, my biggest accomplishment because that's been the hardest
thing.
And I think same for my husband, you know, we've both done some really intense individual
work on ourselves and reflected inward and made sure that our awareness of ourselves
is reflected in our parenting.
And that's been a very hard, huge challenge and we didn't always do that.
So I think that, you know, it takes a lot of strength to at one point say, you know what,
this isn't working, I need to make a change.
And we both did that.
The whole inner work thing is a theme that seems to be coming up and many conversations
I've had with other guests and necessity for it.
I wish that I would have done what we call the inner work much earlier in my marriage
and much earlier in my parenting.
It would have saved a lot of grief along the along the way, but it's very, very difficult,
it's difficult if you're a guy just because of the stereotypes that are out there that's
bad enough, but just the image you have having to really go against your own ego and fight
those internal voices and this image of strength that you're trying to project for your family.
And you spoke of vulnerability about how your husband models that emotional vulnerability
both to you and in front of the kids as well, the years of inner work that you've done to
try to arrive at that place.
And I guess what I really want, fathers listening to know and understand is that doing
that very difficult inner work, asking those very difficult questions of yourself and sometimes
of each other, putting in that time and work is normal.
It should be normal.
And if you want to really be strong for your family, this is a powerful way to project
that strength because what it ultimately means is having a skill called self-control, emotional
self-control and control for how you interact with others.
And I think that is probably one of the most powerful ways you can do that.
And it seems like a juxtaposition to say the word emotional or the term emotional vulnerability
with the same term of self-control.
But when you look at it, when you are repressing whatever traumas, whatever you've gone through,
you're doing that because you ultimately don't have control over it.
And that is a desperate attempt to keep control over it by putting it somewhere else, keeping
it out of sight and just not dealing with it.
I mean, am I really far off the mark here?
No, you are so spot on. Wow, that was so well put.
And I think absolutely what men need to hear when it comes to this issue because control
is a huge thing, right?
And when you can internalize it and tell yourself that it's self-control and how you have
self-control is you learn how to express and communicate your feelings and that's a part
of it.
That can feel really good, I think, for a man.
That's really where it's at.
So I think when you say you wish you would have known this sooner, I think that a lot of
men are needing that message.
So whenever you figured it out and now that you figured it out, you're helping other men,
it doesn't so much matter, it's that you did figure it out because I think for men,
maybe they feel, oh, it's too late or, oh, I've already, my kids are older or maybe even some
that are grown, it's never too late.
I see men, my dad is a perfect example.
He was always that typical pillar of strength, never show emotion.
As he gets older, I have more and more, I should have deeper conversations with him.
He talks about things that happen to him when he was a child or when he was a young father
and I'm just so inspired by that, it doesn't matter that it took him decades to come around.
I'm just glad that he did.
I find that, at least for me, you go to opposite extremes when you don't have that true control.
One is you overreact to everything.
So you lash out an anger, your kids do something and your reaction is always explosive.
The opposite extreme is you don't react at all, which is what we were talking about earlier,
where dads just check out.
Having that true control where you're not running from the emotion but you're controlling
when and what and how you're dealing with that emotion.
We talked about in one episode of Funny Scenario where it's happened in this house where one
of the kids draws on the wall and you're already tired, you're busy, you don't need one more
thing to do and then there's this mess on the wall and you just want to explode at your
kids.
Being able to stop and understand very clearly that that's how you want to react and
being so aware of it that you can step outside of the emotion and choose to say I'm going
to stop and I want to say something so bad and so what I'm going to do instead is I'm going
to leave.
I'm going to go to the garage and work on the car or fix this or go mo or whatever and
I'm going to come back and think this through and then I'm going to come back and address
this.
I've calmed down a bit, had time to think about it, maybe spent some of that angry energy
on something else productive and gotten that physical exertion out, come back and address
it with a little more open-mindedness and things like that.
There are so many examples of how that can play out but it's that awareness when you're
that aware of what you're feeling to where you can choose and decide what you're going
to do with it, that to me is real control.
Oh, 100%.
That's probably the hardest thing really for anyone to do.
The most important thing for your kids because the message is going to get lost on them otherwise.
There's always an opportunity to learn and grow from something that they do or some mistake
they make but if you overreact then forget it, the message is gone.
They're not even going to hear you.
It's the hardest thing to do but the most important thing.
They see that.
They're not dumb at all.
They know you're mad at them.
It wouldn't be difficult for them to see in process that.
The next thing they're watching is what do you do with that and what an opportunity to
model that in a positive way for them?
Absolutely.
As you were saying that, I was thinking of even babies even know that.
I mean, I had a couple in my office recently and they always bring their baby with them and
she's starting to get into stuff.
She's moving around.
She's grabbing at things and so we always baby proof the office when they come in and we
had forgotten about one thing and she was about to touch it and she looked at me because
her parents, she was facing me.
Her parents were behind her and I thought, wow, isn't that something?
She knew that I was going to be somebody that said no.
No, don't touch that.
They know just inherently.
Like you said, they know when they feel you, they feel your energy.
They know when you're going to discipline them or they're looking to you to model that.
How can dads listening learn more about what you're doing or get coaching?
Sure.
So, I am on LinkedIn as Nicole Renyan and Instagram at I Generation Mental Health.
I have a website, knecolrenyan.com where you can go to my coaching page and there's a button
to book a discovery call if you're interested in working one on one.
Just to make things easier if you go to thefatherhachallenge.com, that's thefatherhachallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I will have all
of the links that Nicole just mentioned posted there for your convenience.
As we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
My challenge is to, as painful as it is, to put yourself in a family dynamic you feel
left out of or that you don't have a place in, be uncomfortable and put yourself there and
work through it because you are so needed and so valued and your kids will thank you for
it someday.
Nicole, it has been absolutely an honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you so much for everything that you've shared with us.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
It's been a lovely conversation.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhachallenge.com.
That's thefatherhachallenge.com.
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Have you imagined yourself as a powerful influence on your community and culture around you? Are you ready to make the important decisions in your relationships to be an effective leader at home and everywhere you go? It starts at home and my guest Warren Mainard is going to walk us through that journey. Warren is the national director at Impact Players.
To to connect with Warren Mainard visit:
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Transcription - Saving Dads Saving Communities
Have you imagined yourself as a powerful influence on your community and culture around you?
Are you ready to make important decisions in your relationships and to be an effective leader at home?
And everywhere you go, it starts at home and my guest is going to walk us through that journey
in just a moment so don't go anywhere. Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of
this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge in Genius Prep. In Genius Prep is the world's premier
admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college admissions
consultants, helping students prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized
educational programs that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times. In Genius Prep
students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from other competitive
students in three areas, colleges evaluate students. In academics, extra curricular activities,
and personal characteristics. Just this past admission cycle,
Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools,
and 904 offers from top 50 schools. In Genius Prep student success lies within the fact that
in Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting firm offering every service of family needs,
whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships,
the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses, and other
customized programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic
extent to share with colleges. Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free
strategy call with one of Genius Prep's college experts or you can visit ingeniousprep.com.
That's ingeniousprep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role and to challenge society to understand how important fathers are
to the stability and culture of their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
We need everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Warren Menard.
Warren is the national director at Impact Players and we're going to learn more about it shortly.
Warren, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Oh hey Jonathan, it's so great to be with you and very excited to talk about being better dad.
This is so important, such a great topic. Warren, this next question goes right in line with
tradition. So I always like to start each episode with a dad joke. So Warren, what is your favorite
dad joke? Oh man, we love dad jokes and impact players. We start every impact breakfast
with a series of dad jokes and I've got a handful but here's a quick one. So my son asked me the other
day, hey dad, have you seen my sunglasses? I said no son, have you seen my dad glasses?
That's a great one. It's cheesy, is cheesy. I love it. I was talking with my wife. That's what makes
the dad joke. That's right. I was talking with my wife on the elevator the other day. We got into
an argument. Turns out I was wrong on so many levels. Oh wow, you're good at this. You have some practice.
We have a lot of fun. In fact, we really believe that getting a group of men together and letting
them laugh and just have that camaraderie with one another is absolutely critical to opening up
men's hearts and getting into really important things. What is the story behind impact players? What is
it? How did it start and how did you become involved? Yeah, it's a powerful story. It started in 2004
with a man named Matt Wimmer and a handful of other men who witnessed a dear friend of theirs really fall
into a series of devastating decisions that ended up really hurting his his marriage, his family
and his business that employed over 400 people. Those guys found themselves asking,
wow, what a difference would it have made if he had made some healthy decisions about being a
better husband, father and leader that could have had a positive impact instead of the negative one
that it did have. That really bore out the beginning of impact players, which has now been going for
20 years. The mission is inspiring men to be great husbands, fathers and leaders by equipping them
to thrive in the relationships that matter most. For the first 16 years, impact players existed as a
volunteer organization. I had the joy of being able to come on and become the first executive
director of impact in the fall of 2020. And since that time, we have just seen God absolutely skyrocket
the growth of impact as we have reached men all over the greater Seattle area. And now we are
expanding into Everett and Bellyham, Tacoma, Eastern Washington. But we want to take it nationwide
because we think that there are men all over the country that are looking for the kind of community,
support, encouragement and equipping that impact players provides. What are some of the biggest
obstacles today keeping dads from becoming effective leaders in their homes and communities?
Well, I think a lot of men today are feeling really under attack. And there's no doubt that masculinity
is certainly something that a lot of men feel like just being men is, is makes them
public enemy number one. And so we really want to help empower men to believe that they're not the
problem that they are called to be the solution. And for a lot of guys, their struggles with being
the kind of dads that they want to be, oftentimes it goes back to their own childhood. They had a
difficult relationship with their own dad. There's some relational brokenness that they've never
worked through. But in general, a lot of men just feel like they're unequipped to be the great dads
that they want to be. And so we try to provide resources, training, encouraging and coaching to help
men step into their greatness as dads, giving them practical tools, biblical truth that will really
help them to discover who they are as men, who they are in light of their relationship with God,
and then how that transforms the way that they interact with their children as fathers.
I heard you mentioned something related to trauma. We've done several episodes on generational trauma.
The way our parents parented us and the way the parents before them parented, and they thought
that they were doing a very good thing. Today we would call it harsh parenting. That was a,
and I'm not saying every home was like that, but it was a very, very common thing in the baby boomer
generation. There were also different extremes. There's, for instance, I'm from the Gen X, Gen X is known
as the lachki kid generation. We are known for raising ourselves because our parents were busy
working all the time. Our parents viewed with it their role as sacrificial. They were working hard
so we could have a better future. And that came at its own price. Every generation is trying to do
things a little bit better and is learning from the previous generation, but no one gets it right.
And there's always these residual effects of this trial and error from generation to generation.
And it's, I've learned it's so important that you take the time and you deal with those spots that
where you were missing something where you didn't get everything that you need that you learned not
to see it as, as a shameful thing. And instead to normalize the fact that there are others like you
that have the same thing, that this was bound to happen given the way you grew up. And that it's okay
to feel what it is, but you've got to do something about it. You've got to take that next step and
you've got to deal with it. If you want to become better, if you want to become whole. And I've also
learned that there are two components to that. There is the generational part, which is knowing
yourself who you are, your background, where you came from generationally, what you are likely to
inherit. Behaviours, addictions, things like that that were common in your past generation.
And the other component of that is spiritual identity. And those two things, identity and purpose,
without those, you're, you're pretty much a lost man with a hole in the middle, a big hole in you,
and you will go anywhere and you will do anything to stop feeling that emptiness, including addictions,
including, I mean, you name it. Yeah, there's, there's a reason why the expression daddy issues is a
thing, you know, because there are a lot of men that are carrying around father wounds and we have one
curriculum that we've created called data coaching in the second week of the study. We just open up
with this simple question. Tell me about your dad and oh, wow, because men go around the room,
you get every kind of answer you can imagine. There are men that often sometimes men who say,
"I grew up and I knew my dad loved me, but he never told me." Or, "I grew up and my dad never
told me he was proud of me before." Of course, there were men that had, you know, dads that were
hurtful or abusive. One, one man, yes, he shared his story. He said, "My dad was Michael Landon."
He said, "What? Michael Landon from Little House on the Prairie?" And he said, "Yeah." He said,
"My real dad was gone all the time." So my mom was working nonstop. I was your typical latchkey kid,
like you're talking about Jonathan. And he said, "The only thing I ever learned about being a father,
I learned from watching Michael Landon on Little House on the Prairie." And I think,
that, you know, wherever you're at on that spectrum, like in my own life, I had a very loving father.
I felt safe in my home, which I count as a tremendous blessing. My dad told me that he loved me.
But there were things that my dad didn't do well. You know, he never really kind of showed me how to do
some of the things that men are expected to do. He didn't really have that kind of, you know,
masculine persona that, you know, encouraged me to feel like I could step into those difficult,
hard things. My dad didn't show me or tell me the day that I became a man, those right of passage,
types of experiences. So whatever your experience was with your dad growing up, there's going to be gaps.
And that's where there's a great power in being with other men and finding some spiritual
fathers in your life as well, who can help kind of pour into you in those areas where you feel like
your earthly dad was deficient in, and again, that's not to throw your earthly dad
under the bus, but just to say, Hey, you know, for me to be the man that I want to be,
and then ultimately to try to be the dad that I want to be for my own children,
I've got to fill in some gaps that, you know, that we're not given to me in my own childhood.
Yeah, that's absolutely true. And when we look to that, I mean, this isn't a new thing. You can go
as far back as David, maybe even further than that, but this is what comes to mind is David.
David was not really the best father. He had a lot of great qualities. And in the end, we know that
he was referred to by God as a man after his own heart, in spite of all his shortcomings and failures.
But there is a passage where it talks about David David's looking at the tent where the sanctuary dwelling
where God's presence physically stayed. And David's looking at the sanctuary and he's getting
almost angry. And he's like, what a dump. God's living in a dump and a tent. And I'm in this palace.
This is highly inappropriate. God should have a palace 10 times greater than mine. This is unacceptable.
That's it. I am making, I'm building a new temple for God and it's going to be far more magnificent
than my own. And it should be bigger and taller than mine. And mine should look small by comparison.
That's more appropriate. So he got it excited about it. You know, he had a conversation with Nathan. And
he told Nathan his plans. And of course, Nathan hadn't really consulted with God about it. So Nathan just
shot from the hip and said, yeah, sure, go do it. Go do it. Great idea. Love it. Yeah.
Goes away. Has a conversation with God and then God weighs in and has his own opinions about it.
Right. And then we know where God said, no, actually, no, I don't want you to build it. You're,
you've shed too much blood. You can, you can make the plans. You can drop the plans. You can connect,
you can collect the materials needed, but you're not to build it. Your son's going to build it.
Yeah. And that's when he breaks the news about his son. And then the next part is the profound part
where God makes it clear to David that he's going to be Solomon's father. He's going to parent him.
He's going to he's going to raise him and he's going to be responsible for rounding him out
to be able to take the throne to follow in his father's footsteps. Yeah.
Where God himself tells David that he's going to take that role. So that tells you a lot about
what God thinks about fatherhood. I also think of that as as an act of God's mercy,
demonstration of his character or being being merciful to David in spite of all of David's
shortcomings as a father. Absolutely. And it's it's a great reminder too for us that
none of us are going to get it right. Like we're all going to fall short in some area of our
duties as a as a father. And yet there's great mercy, there's forgiveness, there's opportunities to
to get back up and try again. And I think that's the goals that we want to keep pursuing these
these goals of being a great husband, great father, great leader. And when we don't get it right,
we tell our kids, hey, I'm sorry. I I failed you on this. I I fell short of this goal. This idea of
me being the perfect dad is, you know, it's full schooled. So when I get it wrong, I'm going to
let you know. And when I get it right, I'm going to give glory to the Lord. But ultimately we all
have a perfect Heavenly Father, which is what you're talking about, Jonathan. And that that reminds us
that even when I get into my 70s and hopefully, you know, I'm still regularly talking to my kids,
I'm going to constantly be saying to the Lord, God, show me how to be a father like you because I
don't have this thing figured out. How is the image of God tied to a dad's role? Well, of course,
we know that Jesus referred to, you know, God the Father as as a father. And so it gives us this
beautiful picture of a relational God, a God that loves His children. You know, that that we are
the children of God. And that is the relationship that we have with him. And so we look at God's
character and we see that he is slow to anger and quick to love a bounding and grace and mercy
strong and and just and all of these wonderful characteristics. And all of that helps us
to get a better idea of what God's intention for us as dads is to look like. And there's really nothing
more amazing than that than to say everything I need to know about being a father. I can learn
directly from God himself. And that's that's a unique privilege that we have as men and as fathers
to be able to relate to God in that way and for and to know that God relates to us in that same way.
What an incredible, incredible opportunity we have to love God and know God as our Father.
When I look around the inside of churches, I mostly see women. Maybe it's just me,
but that's the first question I ask is where are all of the men and why aren't they in church?
Well, you're not alone. We actually hosted a webinar last month entitled
Why Men Are Done with the Church and What We Can Do About It. And the truth is is that men are
leaving the church and church is losing men. The the U.S., the typical U.S congregation now,
draws an adult crowd that a 61% female and 39% male, one out of every four married Christian wives,
a 10 church without their husbands. There's definitely a disparity between men and women in the church.
And we could probably spend a lot of time trying to analyze why that is, but for a lot of men,
they just don't feel comfortable in church. A lot of men feel like they're not good at church.
That their wives are better at church than they are. A lot of men walk in. They see a lot of the
decorations. They hear love songs about Jesus. They see children's stories and all those things.
And they think, well, church is something for women and children. I probably, I think probably one of
the main things that I hear a lot of men tell me is that they just don't see how the church is helpful
for their lives Monday through Saturday. And so they're they're saying, I don't see how the church
is helping me to be better in my work, be better in my relationships. That's not helping me with
the inner struggles that I'm experiencing. And then, you know, candidly, I think that there are a lot
of men who have decided that they're done with church because they're disillusioned with the church.
The church has let them down that the church has disappointed them. There are leaders who have abused
their power or taken advantage of the congregation and men are just saying, yeah, if that's what church is
all about, I'm out. I don't want anything about, I don't want anything to do with it. So there are a lot
of reasons why men are not engaged in the church. But to me, it's trying to figure out what can we do
about it and how can we create pathways that will bring men back into a reconciled relationship
with the church? Because I think that there is a need for reconciliation between men and the
local church that's not really happening in most settings today. I completely agree with that. I think
there may be some strong opinions on those. And this is certainly my opinion. I would not expect
anyone to consider this fact. But I'll just say it, a lot of services tend to be very feminine in nature
and the way they're structured and, you know, it's this whole idea of, you know, this, this reverence
being quiet, you know, there's, and it depends, it just varies on the church that you go to, their
churches that are different. But across the board, that seems to be my observation is it's very different
for a different experience than what men actually need. Right. Right. And I think, you know, part of
the challenge for us, Jonathan is that we've got some cultural constructs about what masculinity looks
like it feels like. And then we've got some biblical constructs on masculinity. And those don't always
line up. But we have to recognize the culture that we live in. And so, you know, like just for instance,
you know, I think a lot of times when people think about men's ministry or masculine church and all
that kind of thing, there's this idea that that that that needs to be a bunch of lumberjacks and
jocks that are, you know, crutching beer cans on their head or wearing flannel and ultra muscular
with big beards and all that kind of stuff. And the truth is that none of those things really have
anything to do with what the scriptures and what God says true manhood and masculinity really is.
And so I think absolutely. Yeah. This, this, this, there's kind of a pendulum swing that we have to
be careful of within the church where it's like, okay, we're going to be a church that attracts men.
So we're going to focus solely on all of these external, you know, superficial masculine tropes that
we think will will communicate that we're a church for men. And I think that's a mistake as well. So
like, you know, the idea that say, let's say singing is feminine is not a biblical idea. And you
know, you're already pointed to David as an example of that. He was a man. He was a man after God's
own heart. He was a man that men wanted to emulate their lives after. And he was a musician. He was a
warrior. He was a musician. You know, you look at Jesus and you could probably make up two columns
of characteristics about Jesus that one would say in our, in our current cultural construct.
These are, these are characteristics that some my deem is feminine. And these are characteristics
that some my deem is masculine. And so we don't eliminate those characteristics of Jesus that don't,
you know, don't qualify themselves as masculine characteristics. But what we're trying to say to men
is, let's get to the heart of masculinity. And I think that's what you were just talking about with
that example of, you know, Paul's word to Timothy. For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but
of power and love, self-discipline. And when you start talking and men and saying, this is what it
means to be a man, that you are fearless, that you are powerful, that you are, that you are sacrificial
in your love and that you are self-discipline. You have control over the way that you live your life
through the power of God, through the spirit of God in you. That's what it means to be a man.
And I think why I just, I feel passionate about this is that, you know, we don't want to,
we don't want to convince some men in the church that they are not true men because they don't
live up to that external, superficial cultural definition of manhood. We want to point all men
towards the biblical definitions of manhood and really emphasize that in the church.
Yes, absolutely. What are some of the action steps for a dad to become a strong
effective leader at home and in his community? Yeah, so I think it begins with number one,
you've got to choose, you know, think about what Joshua says, you know, choose for yourselves,
but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. So when we talk about choosing, we're talking about
being intentional, men have to prioritize being great husbands and great fathers, great leaders
in their lives. So when you think about the typical man, he generally speaking has prioritized
his career. He said, okay, I'm going to really work hard. I'm going to invest. I'm going to grow
so that I can have success in my career. But what steps is he taking to prioritize being successful
in those relationships that matter most in particular being a great dad? And so one of the things
that we really talked to men about is it is not a selfish thing to be in a group that is focusing
on growing in these areas. That's not a selfish thing. That's actually a selfless thing to take
time away from your day-to-day life to be invested in a cohort with other men, a band of brothers
that will encourage you and model for you and challenge you to step up in these areas of life.
And then, you know, Jonathan as a man of God as somebody that believes deeply in
in the power of scripture, I really believe that the most important thing that a godly father can do
is to make sure that he is a man of the word. And so I really challenge men to read the scriptures
daily, to memorize the scriptures, and then to pass on the things that he is learning in the
scriptures to his family, to his children, and to those that he has the opportunity to pour into
in mentor. And then I would say finally, when it comes to being a godly dad,
you've got to bring your children into a community where they can come to know the Lord for themselves.
And so for us, you know, again, in that Joshua spirit, as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
We want men to be engaged in a local church body because this is a group effort. You know,
if I'm going to raise my children in the Lord, I need to invite the body of Christ to come along side
to provide additional mentors and encourages and supporters to strengthen our kids. And so I mean, just
wrote a quick example of that. My son is graduating from high school in a couple of weeks. He's 18 years old.
And this past Sunday afternoon, we were at a special graduation celebration that the youth
ministry that he's a part of was hosting. And I walked up to the youth leader afterwards and shook
his hand as a thank you for investing in my son, discipling him, providing a model, providing a group of
buddies that are also pursuing the Lord together that have helped shape him into the man that he is
today. And so I like, there are things that that that youth pastor in those group of guys have done for
my son that I could never give to him because he needs those different encourages in his life. But
it's my job to make sure that he has those opportunities to grow in that way. I would probably wrap that
up and say that that really is normally we end with a challenge. But I think that is, I think you've
pretty much laid out the challenge for dads. The action steps, what they need to do to be able to
become effective men and leaders in their home and in the community. Warren, how can dads learn
more about what you're doing and how can they connect with you? Yeah, you can find me on social media.
Most of my accounts are at W main art. But we'd encourage every man to check out impact players.org.
This is an organization that like I said, started in Seattle in 2004. But in the last couple years,
has really begun to spread its wings and grow. We are actively working to try to help
men and men's groups start cohorts and chapters all over the country. So if you or any man that is
listening would like to get some of our resources, find out about the model that we use to help
encourage, equip and empower men to be great husbands, fathers and leaders. I'd love to reach
reach out to you. I'd love to connect with you about that. And we have almost 20 different
seven week studies that we've created for men to go through in a group with other men that will
really encourage them and equip them to be great husbands, fathers and leaders. So we'd love to make
those available to all of your listeners. Follow us on all the social media's impact players is the
the search term to look for. But we're here to be a resource for men, men's ministries,
church leaders, anybody that's trying to reach men in this current age. Just to make it easier,
if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode,
look right below the episode description. I'll have all of the links posted there, including the links
to impact players. It will all be there for your convenience. Warren, thank you so much for being
on thefatherhoodchallenge. It's been an absolute honor to have you with us. Thank you.
Jonathan, thank you so much and thank you for what you're doing to invest in men and rebuild
us. A generation follows that it is an absolutely central work and a work worth investing in your life.
Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of thefatherhoodchallenge. If you would like to
contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more
information about thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Looking for ways to connect closer to your kids and family? My guest will share some simple actionable steps you can start using today.
Michael Anderson is a public speaker and children's book author whose mission and purpose is helping fathers gain the strategies to transform their relationships, do their inner work, and show up more powerfully for their families.
To connect with Michael Anderson visit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-anderson-44ba36ba/
To get Michael's book No More Mistakes from the Jungle Tales series visit:
https://www.amazon.com/Jungle-Tails-No-More-Mistakes/dp/B0D2BGH6YQ
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Creating Stronger Bonds and Stronger Development
Looking for ways to connect closer to your kids and family?
My guest will share simple actionable steps you can start using today,
and he will be with us in just a moment, so don't go anywhere.
Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode
and the Fatherhood Challenge, Ingenious Prep.
Ingenious Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm,
proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college admissions consultants,
helping students prepare for admissions
to top schools through individualized educational programs
that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times.
Ingenious Prep students work with former admission officers
to differentiate themselves from other competitive students
in three areas colleges evaluate students in academics,
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268 offers from top 20 schools, and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
Ingenious Prep's student success lies within the fact
that Ingenious Prep is an all-in-one consulting firm
offering every service a family needs,
whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship,
academic mentorships, the leadership, and innovation lab,
soft skills courses, writing courses, and other customized programs
to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic extent
to share with colleges.
Just click on the link in the episode description
to book a free strategy call with one of Ingenious Prep's college experts,
or you can visit ingeniousprep.com
that's ingeniousprep.com
and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge!
A movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role,
and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are
to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Michael Anderson.
Michael is a public speaker and a children's book author,
whose mission and purpose is helping fathers gain the strategies
to transform their relationships,
and do their inner work and also show up more powerfully for their families.
Michael, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Yeah, this is awesome, Jonathan. Thanks for having me on, man.
So Michael, what is your favorite dad joke?
(laughs)
Favorite dad joke?
Oh man, I'm trying to think of all the, you know,
I can't believe I say this joke because when my dad said it,
I just rolled my eyes every time.
But I am guilty of the classic when my kids say,
"Dad, I'm thirsty."
I'll say, "Well, nice to meet you, thirsty. I'm dad."
And they have never once found it funny.
(laughs)
They've never once found it funny,
but I do every time. I can't help myself.
(laughs)
I love it.
I really don't want to eat it.
I'm glad someone loves it because they love it.
(laughs)
Well, Michael, let's get right to it.
What is the story behind how and why you got into the work
of helping families connect and stay connected?
I kind of, you know, I kind of like I stumbled into this.
I was working in a different job, had a different career.
I kind of thought I was going to be doing that for the rest of my life.
My wife was going to school at the time.
I think we had just had our first child, I think,
just this baby, my wife was getting her undergrad in family studies.
And she was telling me about things she was learning about marriage,
about family, parenting, and I just started realizing that
the stuff she was saying was way more interesting than the stuff I was doing as a career.
And so I decided to go back to school and get and become a marriage and family therapist.
And as I started doing that, I started working with teenagers.
And I started having these experiences over and over again,
which I was talking with these teenagers and I kept having the thought,
"Man, if only we could get the parents to come in."
Because I more and more as I was getting to know these teenagers
and kind of briefly meeting their parents and getting to know their family dynamics,
I started realizing, and then I started learning more about trauma healing
and the effect that trauma has in the ways that we show up in our relationships,
in our families.
I just started realizing that, "Man, I'm with these teenagers for one hour a week,
but they are with their parents for hours and hours, days, every day.
And if we could help parents to do their own work and help them heal
and help them change the way they show up for their kids,
then this will be astronomically more effective than me trying to help these kids.
And so that got me really interested in parenting,
got me really interested in not only that,
but I started having kids and I started doing my own stuff,
my own work and do my own healing.
And so I just really started to just gain this love for parents who wanted to heal
and wanted to show up better for their kids, I mean.
And so that just kind of launched me down this path and I've loved it, man.
It's been so, so rewarding.
In your mission statement, there is a mention of doing inner work.
What does that mean and what's involved?
Why is it so important and what was your own journey with that?
Yeah, no, this is the idea of inner work.
It's like that phrase that gets thrown around a lot and pops ecology.
Like, yeah, do your own inner work.
You gotta do it.
For me, what I, as I learn more again,
as I learn more about trauma healing and learn more about parenting,
I learned more as I worked with clients and as I became a parent,
I just, I was learning that, you know, about 90% of parenting is not about learning new skills.
Like, it's not about learning new parenting skills.
It's actually about getting really curious about the things that are happening inside of us
that block us from genuinely connecting with our children.
Like, when our kid throws a tantrum,
what is happening inside of us that is keeping us from connecting with our child in that moment?
Being more, more, mostly open and available.
You know, for me, or a personal example to your question,
I noticed that when my son, so I've got two sons and one little girl,
and when my son's cry,
I would, I used to be very cold towards them.
I would just be really harsh, you know, just kind of like the whole,
like don't cry, like come on, be tough, you know,
take a deep breath, you find your fine.
And I started realizing that when my kids would cry,
what was happening inside of me was this own insecurity was getting triggered inside of me,
this own fear that I was weak, that I wasn't strong enough.
And when I saw my kids cry, it was activating that inside of me.
And so as I got curious about that, and then I was also activating these fears,
like, oh, I don't want to raise a weak kid or whatever.
And I realized like 90% of me showing up better for my kids in those moments
is all about me doing my own stuff, like me healing those fears,
me working through those beliefs, me learning how to most regulate.
And I just believe that whether it's that scenario or,
and honestly, any scenario, any scenario in which you're not able to show up in a more connected, open way
for your child, it's just a sign that there's inner work,
there's inner healing that has to happen inside of you first.
That's absolutely powerful.
And I think a lot of dads can relate to that.
I was talking with another guest and we were discussing how sometimes dads can get really uncomfortable
when their kids cry, especially if it's a dad with a daughter.
I mean, we get uncomfortable when our wives cry, maybe not all of us,
but most of us get really uncomfortable with those scenarios.
So I love the fact that you touched on to why in a lot of cases that might be.
And then how we can get past that.
There's an inspiring photo of you reading with your kids.
And I absolutely love that photo.
In fact, I loved it so much that I wanted to make it the episode cover art,
so guests can actually see it too.
Because for me personally, just looking at that photo is inspiring.
Why should dads be reading to their kids?
How has it impacted their development and your bond with them?
Yeah, man.
Okay, just a lot of different avenues here.
We could take this, there's so many benefits.
So for one thing, we live in such an overstimulated world.
I mean, the world is moving so fast that honestly, I could say,
reading books with kids is so good for their development
and helping them slow down and learn and boost the creativity, which is all true.
And that's all a very valid reason you should read your kids.
But what I found is doing stuff like that is actually so good for me.
It's so good for me to just slow down and be present with my child.
And it can be really hard to find time to do that.
And today's, you know, busyness.
Everyone wears busyness like a badge of honor.
And I'm so good to just rush my kids to beds that I can finally relax and rest
or continue some work that I didn't finish or whatever.
And I'm guilty of that.
And I've noticed that the times when I just am willing to be present and slow down my kids,
like, yes, it is so good for them.
But honestly, and as selfish as this might sound, it is so good for me
to just be able to take in what it feels like to be with my children.
What it feels like to just be around their innocence, what it feels like to just be
around their curiosity and their wonder and their goofiness.
It's like healing for me, man.
And not only that, but it just is and now to just like talk about like on the child's side,
like it is just so good for their kids, for kids to have that slow,
really connected time with their parent, obviously.
And so I don't want to minimize that at all.
But just from a maybe a more different perspective here and again,
as selfish as it might sound, like I think I need it, man, more than anything.
There's something about that time slowing down.
And there's something about reading.
It's almost as if there's there's two worlds as your world.
And there's the world of your child or your children.
And at that moment that you're reading those two worlds become one world.
Ah, it's cool.
I love that.
And you're in that same world together in that same space.
Yeah.
And the sense is as if they feel like all of your attention is on them through that activity.
Yeah.
And John and dude, that's that's awesome.
I love that.
What came to mind is he said that is, you know, often, you know,
my kids are want to do something and I have to say, you know,
hey, I would love to, but I actually have to finish this work right now,
which is about like we have to work.
Obviously, like, I don't, I think it's very okay for parents to have to like say no to their kids sometimes, you know.
But, but I think it's also like just an illustration of, you know, I live in my world,
my kids live in their world and sometimes I have to keep those separated.
But what a cool opportunity just to finally let those two worlds blend through imagination and stories.
Like, I love that.
John, that's so cool.
There are two guests I've had on the program.
One is Claire Stead and the other one is Deborah McNeilis.
And I've always referenced them both because they talk heavily about brain development in babies and newborns.
And so many times, dads may feel like, especially in the newborn stage, like, you know, well, you know,
I, what role do I have?
I'm not very important, you know, that it's the mother that breast feeds and does all of this nurturing stuff.
And, and so, you know, I'm not so important now.
So, you know, my time to engage will be when they become a teenager.
It's time for me to really kick in then and, and prepare them for adulthood or when it's time for them to drive.
That's when I'll kick in and, and do my thing.
Yeah.
But research is showing that dads are essential.
This is not an optional thing.
They're essential for max development in those early years.
When, when they're a baby and one of those critical components to brain development is reading to babies,
babies will still react to that.
So, I saw a picture of that of, of a dad reading to his baby and the eyes of his baby are just wide and drawn to what's happening in that experience.
And there's clearly some kind of a bond going on.
And you know there's some development going on in the brain that this data is causing to happen because of that that one on one time.
So, from what I've learned, it's, it's never too early to start reading to your children.
So cool.
Yeah.
I, you know, that's been one of my favorite things.
So, I've got a, I've got a one year old little girl.
And that's been something I've been trying to do more of is reading to her.
And I've just experienced those benefits.
Like seeing her engage and interact and learn and you can just tell that, yeah, you can tell that something is happening inside their brain.
And I really do just to your point, you know, that, that it's really common for, for men to say, like, you know, during those really early periods of like, yeah, like, I don't, my role,
my role will be when they're toddlers, when they're a little older and they can play.
But I honestly think that's, that's a self limiting belief, you know, I, I think that's just a story our brains tell us.
And it's not true.
Our kids need us from the, from day one.
And, and we need them from day one.
I think that's something that's so important for fathers and for myself to understand is like, yes, our kids need it, but like, we need this.
We need this bond with our children, even at such at the earliest stages is healing for us.
So just love what you're saying, man.
One of the earliest memories I can remember of bonding with both of my sons was before they were born and we were coming up with a birth plan.
One of the things that I was very adamant about was being there to catch both of my sons.
This was something that to me was not negotiable.
Yeah.
Was not up for debate.
This was going to happen and this is one thing I really put my fist down.
Yeah.
I mean, if there was a real dire merge at medical emergency or something like that, this was going to be happening.
Yeah.
And there was not a doctor or a nurse that was going to be telling me, no.
I insisted.
In fact, I'll just say I demanded that the very first thing I wanted my son to feel when he came into the world is the hands of his dad on him.
Yeah.
Bring in him in ushering him in.
That was to be his first contact with with the physical world.
So cool.
And that happened.
And that is one of the most unforgettable moments of my life.
Wow.
And I caught him.
There were no gloves and I really don't care what people's opinions are about that about the fact that I had no gloves.
I don't really care.
Yeah.
He felt my bare hands on his bare skin for the first time and I pulled him up to me.
And he scanned around as I was had him right up to my chest and he was scanning around.
And then his eyes made his way right up to my eyes and we locked.
Yeah.
He knew exactly who he was looking for.
And that that look when he locks that I found you.
Yeah.
And we just stared and stared and stared.
I'm not sure when when I'm not sure who blinked first or when it just felt like a long time.
Yeah.
And there was a slight smile.
There was this recognition.
It was I can't even that's the best I can describe it beyond that.
You just have to have that experience for yourself.
But there was a lot of communication going on.
That was nonverbal.
Yeah.
And that moment.
So the effects of that moment are still felt to this day.
I can tell you that man.
They're that so powerful.
I am our first was born at a hospital and and we didn't really know much about.
We were just kind of we're just a young couple just flying in very undereducated with childbirth.
And then our next two were both home births with midwives and.
And my second and my third I was able to deliver and similar same same thing first first to touch
them and.
And man, you're right.
It's so you can't describe it unless you've done it.
It's beautiful.
It's a powerful experience.
Absolutely.
So Michael, what are some of your favorite tips that you're willing to share with us on how to what helped you connect with your family?
And how dads listening now conform that same connection.
So a couple things one.
It's really important to understand how just how important physical touch is.
And so if there's any fathers listening, you know, especially if you've got sons, but but regardless, right?
Like I would just encourage dads to engage in physical touch with their kids.
Like hugging, kissing, wrestling, holding them, just be be silly with them.
We play play rough games with your boys like wrestle with them.
Like my you know, kid, especially especially boys and this isn't thankfully is not the case for every every boy, but there is way too often.
Boys grow up emotionally starved and and absolutely starved a physical touch.
There's kind of this, there's societal messages and themes around, you know, boys just have to kind of be tough and and emotions make them weak and they just kind of have to suppress and and a dad to hug or kiss their boys would be weird or are some things like that.
But what we don't, but those are all just kind of societal like lies, right?
When the truth is is, you know, to for a child to be held by their parent, you know, you I loved how you said you brought your son when he was born just right there, skin to skin.
Like to hold your child like it releases like cascades of neurochemical processes that are so good.
And healing to be like held by your parent to be like kissed by them to physical touch like their releases powerful chemicals like oxytocin and dorphins.
To help you bond like oxytocin is is the bonding. It's called it's nicknamed the cuddle hormone. It's the it's the bonding hormone that gets released when there's physical touch.
And as a dad, you have such a powerful opportunity to bond with your kids through play through wrestling being crazy with them grabbing them squeezing them, you know, just like having fun with them.
It's how that's how kids bond. In fact, man, I wish I had the research in front of you, but there's research out there that shows that dads and their children bond more through play.
To that type of aggressive kind of wrestling running around playing then they do, but by just like snuggling and cuddling.
And so if you're a dad listening to this, my my tip would be come home and just and just be with your kids physically just and enjoy that and helps them bond helps them feel secure to you.
And if they don't feel secure, we're wired to bond, we're wired to attach. And so if we're not getting that bond and that attachment through those means, then kids will learn unhelpful ways of receiving that same type of bond, right?
I mean, kid, I mean, through even through pornography, through substances like whatever, there are artificial ways to get those same that same chemical experience.
And so if it'll get through you, they'll get through somewhere else and and so just take advantage of that now. That's that's probably one of the biggest things I would I would want to tell dads.
Let's change directions a little bit and this might be a loaded question, but here it goes.
What happens when dads have passed trauma from being abused as a child, for example, what does the path to healing look like? And how do they become and stay present for their families in the midst of that?
It's interesting. People want to sometimes people want to like avoid talking about trauma because they think it makes them weak to acknowledge that there's trauma or makes them feel broken or ashamed, makes them feel helpless.
I actually filled the exact opposite.
And healing trauma is just one of the most beautiful things in the world. Like to and so I would encourage, you know, I believe so deeply that the way to heal trauma is to actually learn how to love the parts of ourselves that are carrying that trauma.
Part so when we go through abuse as a child of any nature, it affects our psyche and it affects different parts of us that kind of carry on that pain.
These are often very young parts of us that carry on that pain.
And, you know, we could be a 35 year old man, but yet something happens that just reminds our brain of past trauma when we were seven and all of a sudden that that part of us that is seven neurologically carrying on that trauma that gets online that gets turned online.
And that's why we have big reactive feelings in we've and maybe reactive behaviors and we're like, man, I'm a 35 year old man. Why am I acting like I'm seven? Well, it's because there is a very young part of you that's still carrying trauma that has been processed.
And so what's beautiful, I think, about trauma healing is we usually spend so much for our lives trying to ignore or suppress our trauma.
But if we're actually willing to get curious and I think curiosity is the most powerful word in the English language for actually starting to curious about what's happened to us in the way it's affecting us now.
And then, we start to get a lot of curiosity breeds compassion because once we get curious about that seven year old that's carrying that trauma, we start to realize that it's not as fault.
He didn't deserve to have that happen to him. And he's actually a really cool kid.
And we start to have compassion on them. And now, all of a sudden, a part that a part of us that we used to ignore and suppress now we have compassion for.
And we just want to hold, we just want to hug that part of ourselves. We just want to tell that seven year old kid that he's actually really cool.
And he's not to find he's not weak, he's not broken, he's good enough. And that we love him and that we care for him.
And now, this part of us that we spent so many years of our lives ignoring and suppressing, now not only are we curious towards them, but we're compassionate.
And now not only are we compassionate towards them, but we just love them. And love is at the heart of trauma healing, like connecting with these parts of ourselves and loving them.
That's that's how we heal. That's how we can finally move on and unburden the trauma that we're hanging on to.
And but it starts with curiosity because sometimes self love is a big ask for for fathers for men. And so we start just by can we are willing to start getting curious. And hopefully that makes sense. I mean, healing trauma that we could do multiple episodes on that.
But hopefully that's that makes sense as far as just a brief answer to that question.
It does. It does make a lot of sense. You've written a book called No More Mistakes. Tell me about this book and how dad's listening can get their copy.
Yeah, so yeah, it's a children's book. It's the first of hopefully many of the children's book series that I'm working on the second one's getting published in September.
But I wanted to write a book that was not only for children, but also for parents. Again, you know, I was working with teenagers and I was like, man, we could help parents get in the room and do their own stuff. I'd be great.
And then, you know, even better, if we could help parents do their own work and heal, you know, when kids are younger, right? Instead of when they're 15 and 16 about really the house, like we help parents heal when their kids are, you know, one, two, three years old.
And so I want to write a book that was fun for a kid to read, but it also had lessons that both a kid and a parent could just kind of talk about together and parents could read and realize, oh man, like I want to apply that into my life.
And so this first book, so the book series is called Jungle Tales. So it follows, you know, a group of jungle animals that kind of live in this community altogether and each book, they do something together that kind of teaches a mental health principle.
And this first one is called No More Mistakes. And so the main two characters of this series is this Rocky is this right on him, Rocky. And then this monkey named Mani.
And Rocky loves to play basketball. It's actually called Coco Ball, but it's like basketball with a coconut and he's taking shots and he keeps missing and he realizes that he's embarrassed.
He's making mistakes and messing up. And he starts like avoiding all things that could lead to mistakes because he thinks mistakes are bad.
And it's the story of just him learning through his friends through experiences that actually mistakes are not only bad, not only good.
It takes your good and they help you to improve. And they're actually a critical part of self improvement. And so that's that's the first book.
Each book will dive into a mental health principle kind of like that. And it's available on Amazon right now.
And I can Jonathan, you're up for it. I can get you the link that you can put the show notes to go and check it out.
Yes, absolutely. I would appreciate that. How can dads find you or learn more about what you're doing?
Yeah, so right now the best way to get a hold of me is to LinkedIn. I post there pretty regularly.
It's the platform that I'm most active on. The only downfall is that my name is Michael Anderson. And so there's probably about a thousand Michael Anderson's just in a 50 mile radius of me.
My parents blessed me with a very boring name. So but again, if you're okay, the Jonathan, I can send you my link to my LinkedIn profile on my in the show notes.
And you can connect me there. You can absolutely DM me reach out and talk with me. I'm a I swear I'm a nice guy. So don't don't hesitate to reach out.
Just to make it easier if you go to the fatherhood challenge.com. That's the fatherhood challenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I'll have all of the links that Michael just mentioned. I'll have that in the show notes, including the link to his LinkedIn profile so you can connect with them there.
So Michael, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now? My challenge again, this is going back to what we talked about earlier is I would encourage every dad to embrace the word curiosity.
Again, our brains kind of natural instinct is to judge what we do judge the thoughts that come up in our mind judge the emotions we feel judge our behaviors lots of shame lots of criticism.
A lot of like, why can't I just be better.
But I want to challenge I would just those challenge out there to dads to take some time today, the next day, maybe go a week and just commit to being super curious with what's happening inside of you.
And just interact with your kids and interact at work interact with your partner if you have one and just get really curious about what's happening in your life that's that's bringing on thoughts, emotions, behavioral patterns, things like that that you're wishing you could change.
And just commit to being curious just like check that out be curious with yourself and see if you can start to kind of get curious about why you do what you do rather than shaming it and judging it.
And as you do that, just ask yourself why do you start getting to know these different parts of you with curiosity maybe even a little bit of self compassion.
Just see if new insights come and see if it makes it easier for you to change when you embrace curiosity rather than being self-critical for yourself.
That'd be a challenge I'd give to dads.
Michael, thank you so much for that wisdom. I sure appreciate it. It's been absolutely an honor having you on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Yeah, John, thank you so much. Thank you for what you're doing. I think fathers, we need more communities like this.
And so I just appreciate you creating a space for fathers to be able to work on themselves and continue to heal and improve. So thank you for having me on.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this episode we’re going to explore the powerful legacy left to his daughter by a loving father. We’ve explored this topic before but it is so important that we’re going to explore it again. Get ready to hear some amazing and inspirational stories about how a father changed a daughter's life and became a driving force behind her success and how you can too.
Lenora Edwards is a Tedx speaker who helps people correct negative self-talk and Self-Sabotaging Behaviors to Achieve Holistic Wellness and Personal Empowerment she is also a Speech Language Pathologist. Recently she has created a journal to help fathers connect deeper with their daughters and we will talk more about that later in this episode.
To connect with Lenora Edwards visit: https://www.dtbhorizons.com/
To get your copy of Our Adventures Together, the journal mentioned in this episode visit: https://www.dtbhorizons.com/ebooks/
Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit: https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Girl Dad Journals
In this episode, we're going to explore the powerful legacy left to his daughter by a loving father.
We've explored this topic before, but it's so important that we're going to explore it again.
Get ready to hear some amazing and inspirational stories about how a father changed a daughter's life
and became a driving force behind her success and how you too can have the same drive and the same
legacy experience. So don't go anywhere. Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of
this episode and the fatherhood challenge in Genius Prep. In Genius Prep is the world's premier
admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized as the country's top college admissions
consultants, helping students prepare for admissions to top schools through individualized
educational programs that increase chances of admission by up to 10 times. In Genius Prep students
work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves from other competitive students in three
areas colleges evaluate students in academics, extra curricular activities and personal characteristics.
Just this past admission cycle, Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools,
268 offers from top 20 schools and 904 offers from top 50 schools.
Genius Prep student success lies within the fact that Genius Prep is an all-in-one consulting
firm offering every service of family needs whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy,
building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership, and innovation lab,
soft skills courses, writing courses and other customized programs to develop their application
persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges. Just click on the link in
the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Genius Prep's college experts or
you can visit ingeniousprep.com that's ingeniousprep.com and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great
pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability
and culture of their families environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is LaNora Edwards. LaNora is a
TEDx speaker who helps people correct negative self-talk and self-sabotaging behaviors to achieve
holistic wellness and personal empowerment. She's also a speech-language pathologist. Recently,
she's created a journal to help fathers connect deeper with their daughters and we'll talk more about
that later in this episode. LaNora, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge once again.
Thank you so much for having me, Jonathan. It is always a pleasure to spend time with you and to
especially talk about the incredible mission fathers are on and the one that you're helping build
and cultivate. I love the earlier episode that we did together. It was sometime back but it was a
powerful one that we did on helping fathers to recognize signs of developmental disorders or even
growth and that was one of those rare topics that you don't see a lot of people talking about and
you provided so much expertise on that and now you're going so much deeper than that into connection
and to helping fathers connect. I really would like to explore your own story in this journey.
I'm curious to know your earliest memories, what are your earliest memories of your dad and why
do you remember them so well? The earliest memories of my dad, he is of which I'm very happy to report
still alive and well and my dad has just been a phenomenal father figure throughout my entire life
and I always remember him being extraordinarily gentle and kind and my earliest memories, oh goodness,
I have one of those memories that I can remember, you know, getting picked up out of the crib and
just a lot of really happy memories. I remember him holding me and I, guys, I'm talking good,
probably 10 months, 11 months old but I can just capture these pictures of his face in my memory, yeah.
Why are these memories so strong? I mean, remembering all the way back to when he was picking you up out
of the crib, was it, what was it about those memories that have made them last all the way to the
state where you can remember them so clearly? I remember very vividly, it was his intention but also his
eyes. He was very, very present when he was holding me or when he was holding my sister and that kind
of energy, that kind of presence and being there in the moment, fully connected to the person
that is quite literally in your arms is so extraordinarily powerful and it goes well beyond the
surface of conversation that of, oh, be nice to your children, it's a different level of being present.
You're not thinking about all the 45 million things you are completely present in that moment
when you're holding your child. So whether you're feeding them or if they're rocking them or if he
was talking to me, that is something that goes so viscerally, two hour DNA, two hour genetic coding,
that's why they become so powerful because it's not especially at that age, when we're that little,
we don't hear words, we don't, as in we don't understand, I love you, we feel everything,
we can feel the intensity of that care and that protection and I think that's why they are that much
more vivid for me. What really stood out about what you just said was the eye contact and that takes me
back to an episode with Dr. Canfield. She came on and she has an entire ministry and entire mission
that is dedicated to the dad/daughter connection, making that deeper, giving dads the code if you will
for that connection. Yeah. And it really, I mean, there's a lot of other things in there but if you really
want to boil it down to two things, the two things that she really hammered on most of the interview
was one eye contact and two for dads to drop their anger, especially with daughters. So yeah,
if you have a toddler and she goes around the house and you walk into the house or you walk into a room
and the whole wall is full of crayon markings and she's paying it and drawing all over the walls and
the room is completely a wreck and the first thing you want to do is rage because you've been busy
all week, you're tired and all you see is a lot of work, a lot more work that shouldn't have happened
and you just want to rage. And those are the moments she's talking about. Because that's really powerful,
yeah. That can have a lasting impact, not just in the memory of remembering the event but
our biased store memory of events in various ways and you can do a lot of damage.
And so if you have to walk away, do whatever it is, get away but do not drop, just drop that anger
on the spot, deal with it some other way and some way that has nothing to do with your daughter.
One of the specialties that I have is a very deep understanding of memory and what happens
in that moment. So for example, let's say somebody was wanting to lose their temper and that
child is present. What happens to that child is it's a moment that can often become a moment of
overwhelm to that child and how it imprints on that child is very specific to that individual. So
for example, how you experienced overwhelm as a child is very different, how then I experienced
overwhelm. So it's very, very personal. And when that happens in that moment, our nervous system
quite literally captures the sound, the smell, the color, the feeling, all these characteristics that
are present in the environment capture it and then store it in our body. And our body is designed
to do this and it also will perceive it quite often as a threat. So we'll remember, don't let this
happen again, which is a great thing. We're designed that way. It's a protective mechanism, but also
what can happen is other things that are associated with this can result in that individual then
learning different things and holding on to different things all because of this event of anger.
Now that being said, the adult that released that anger is also needing to tend to their emotional
regulation and find ways to process that anger. And a lot of the time we think like, oh, I can't be
angry about this. No, anger is a good thing. It's how we are we are wired to feel these emotions,
how we release it, how we process it, how we clear it from our body is the key. And we're not
taught how to do this. These are things that we have to learn or unless you work with specialists who
are quite literally trained to say, okay, let's get this anger at and a safe, confined way as in
not at the detriment of your daughter. Let's talk about this in another space where you can safely
get this energy out and you can tend to your nervous system to help you regulate so that you're
not taking your pain and putting it on your daughter, which would definitely happen in that moment.
Yeah, you aren't just going to get rid of that anger. It's not, I mean, you aren't going to just
ignore it and just put it away and then keep it away. I mean, that's not healthy. It has to come out
somewhere, but you're talking about being very deliberate that first of all that that's happening.
I am angry. This is making me really angry, but being so conscious of it that you're saying,
you can say to yourself, I have a choice here. I'm very well aware if I let it out here,
that's going to yield consequences I don't want for my daughter for anyone else. This is not what I
want. It's got to come out. I have a choice. I'm not going to let it out here. Here's some other very
constructive and safer ways and healthy ways where I can let it out because it does have to come out.
Completely, completely. I think a lot of the time we're at least, you know, it's 2024. Thank goodness.
We have other ways of understanding our emotions. We have a deeper knowledge and a deeper understanding
of saying, hey, okay, I've seen other people stuff their emotions down and I've seen when it has done
to them over a period of time, I don't want to be like that. I've also seen people release their
emotions on anyone and everything and I don't want to be like that either. So now our next step is
to find ways to process our emotion and to let it out of our body. We don't want to stuff it down.
We don't want to unleash it on anyone just like you said, finding ways that are helpful and effective
and get that emotion out of your body. That's the key. Another powerful consequence of how you
react during those moments, moments like that and all through the rest of your daughter's life is
because it will have a direct impact on and we'll explore this probably later in the episode, but
it will have a direct impact on the mate that she chooses. Because she will pattern that after,
you know, somebody who is, my dad was verbally abusive. This is all I know. This is who, this is what
men are and this is apparently what I need in my life or what it's supposed to be. Or my father
was kind, loving and nurturing. He taught me self-respect and he respected me and treated me with love and
respect. So he would expect nothing less of anyone I choose and I don't want anything different because
this is what I've known and grown up with. So I would expect that from from a future mate. So it has
that implication all the way from when when they're just a baby and then the eye contact is wow,
that's the one thing that you remember is so strongly is the eye contact. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And not until what you're saying that they might choose a mate like that, but they might also then
behave that way. So, you know, really understanding that your child is growing up in you are cultivating
constantly the environment that your child will be in for the rest of their life until they're
18 and they can then say, okay, well, let me make a different decision. So wanting your child to grow
open and loving, safe, kind space helps them build those neuropath ways that say, oh, this is something
that I want for myself or if you're they're growing up in a in a very volatile space, they're building
those neuropath ways that say, this is what life is. So whichever way we go, we're picking it up
from our environment, we're modeling it, we're seeing it, we're engaging with it. That individual come
18 years old, they then make decisions from for themselves, but that's what you're sharing with them
and what else do you want to share with them? Share the good stuff with them and also even in those
moments of anger and you receive as the father step out, you go release anger, you process it,
you can always come back to it and say, you know, this is what I wanted, this is what would have
been a better situation. I would have liked you to not draw on the walls. We want to be kind to
our things. This is why it's important and talk about it. Don't stuff it under the rug. Don't say,
oh, no, it's fine when it wasn't fine. Allow these conversations to happen and happen with integrity
and happen with a level and an approach that they understand, but also they're hearing you and
they're saying, oh, okay, I can follow that simple direction. And yes, there will be needs time
for repetition, but you're cultivating that and that's a great thing. Tell me about a time when you
are absolutely at your lowest point and your dad helped you recover. Oh, man, when I was in sixth grade,
math was awful. School was terrible for me. Absolutely terrible. And it was one of those things where
you know, you're 12 years old, I'm crying on my bed. And I'm not just crying. I'm doing that really
ugly cry where you're sobbing hysterically. You can't catch your breath. And rather than saying,
you shouldn't be feeling like this, you should be doing better in school. My dad just sat with me.
He's like, yeah, it's tough. And that's all he did. He just sat with me and he listened.
And that was a huge difference because there was quite literally a safe space made. There wasn't
shame. There wasn't guilt. There wasn't you need to be doing this. You need to be doing that. It was
simply, I see you. It's okay. We'll figure it out. Somebody did a sit with you in that kind of space
for lack of a better word in that hole where you're feeling absolutely awful. And you don't know
what to do because you're only 12. Having that kind of presence of somebody just sitting with you
and holding your hand through it and going, it'll be okay. Huge, massively huge.
There's what your dad did. There's so many things in what he did. But he entered your world
empathetically. Now the first thing we do when we see it, I mean, guys get really, most guys, not all,
but a lot of guys get really uncomfortable around a woman crying or around a girl crying.
We don't know what to do. And it becomes a very uncomfortable situation. So we go to immediately
what we're comfortable doing, what we are wired to do. And that's fixed. Diagnose and fix.
Yeah. And when we actually do that, I mean, yes, we will, we will do that under the pretense that
we're trying to help this other person, but in reality, it's to help ourselves. It's to make
ourselves feel comfortable to the situation, to bring order to things. So the root purpose behind
that action is ourselves. So it's not because we mean for it to be of a negative or punitive
experience is because we don't know what to do. And we need to feel useful. And so here's your
dad completely escaping that. And he's leaving his world. And maybe not even leaving it, but he's
pulling his world into yours emotionally and physically both. And he's there with you. And he's
just sitting there. He's not trying to solve the root cause of the problem. He's just listening. So we have
eye contact. And we have dropping anger. And we have listening and emotional empathy. Does that
sound about right? That sounds beautiful. Absolutely. And I agree with you. You know, men are
wonderful, wonderful people. And they want to absolutely fix. And it's a very primal
wiring that men are going, I want to fix, I want to be the solution. And it can be completely
a challenge because you might not feel useful in that moment. And in that moment, allowing
that space to say, okay, I'm just going to pause here. I'm just going to sit, I'm going to observe,
and I'm going to wait. And I might be a little uncomfortable as my daughter sits here and cries,
or as my wife sits here and cries, I'm just going to wait. And then as you're doing that, even
whenever it feels right, the question you can ask, especially when it's, when it if if this is your
wife and you're in the in this situation, do you want some help right now or do you want me to just listen?
And say it with the tone and the sincerity of wanting to just simply be present with them,
will make a massive difference, a completely massive difference because especially in your
daughter, your daughter might not have the solutions, but your wife might be thinking, I know what to do,
I just need somebody to to listen. And that's all I need right now. And when you can ask that question
of which do you want, and you can ask it sincerely, you're holding that space, specifically in this
case for that female or for that person that you're with. And that's really what it is about is
creating that container of safety, not of shaming, not of gilting, just simply being present and
allowing that person to be. Let's talk about the teenage years. I want two teenage daughters need
the most from their dads and how did your dad meet those needs? Oh man, I was not somebody who
dated much. So for me, my dad and I would often, I babysat a lot from the age that I was 12 onwards.
And a lot of my Saturday nights, I didn't really go out with friends, a lot of my Saturday nights,
I spent babysitting my Friday nights, I spent often with my dad or if my mom was home. So my mom was
a night nurse and she spent a lot of time three, three days out of the week. She would be working at a
hospital and then sometimes every other week in her every two weekends, something like that. So
when she wasn't home, me and my dad would spend time together and we would often bond over movies.
And it was just something special that we did. We would go to the movies for, here's a really big
throwback for everybody. The movie store, we would go and rent movies, we'd go to blockbuster, whatever
it was. And that was something that was really nice because it was always a happy time that we
spent together. And specifically when I was a teenager, we started getting into PG-13 movies,
but PG-13 for me was what he also found entertaining. And they were a little, they were a little
engaging. And I remember thinking even as scary as that movie was, nothing bad could happen
because dad was there. And it was just one of those things that really stood out in our way that we
bonded, but also nothing bad could happen to me because dad was there. So whether it was a, you know,
happy memory or kind of that thing where you think, well, that's naive of you. Either way,
I remember thinking nothing bad could happen because dad's here.
The big thing that I'm seeing or that I heard from that was time. It's that quality time.
Once again, it was a space where your worlds were the same world. And you were just,
just letting it go. You were just having a great time together, making a wonderful memory.
That space and that time with him that you held was in its essence for you. It was safety. It was,
it was understood as safety that time that physical time with him created this emotional connection.
Very much so. I love that. Now let's change gears a little bit. We're coming back to what we
talked about earlier, maybe just scratch the surface about. And that is how fathers influence their
daughters selection of of a future mate. What role did your dad play in helping you choose a good
husband? My dad and my mom would always say, the way your father treats me, my mom would say this,
the way your father treats me or my dad would say the way I treat your mother should be how your
husband treats you. And my father is incredibly kind and incredibly compassionate and very
tending to. Do you need anything? Can I help you with anything? Very sincere. And I think that is a huge
thing that we want to help people understand that those are the types of people that as a woman,
that's something that I value very much. My dad also has a phenomenal sense of humor and loves to laugh.
And these are all qualities that my husband now has. And I've been married to my husband for
in two days. It'll be 14 years that we've been married. That's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you.
So that's so big thing there is modeling. So now we before we were talking about time spent
and what I just heard was modeling modeling was is the key there. Your mother set this benchmark
expectation from her own experience from her own marriage. So strong marriages also seem to be
a powerful theme because that's what you grew up around. He was nurturing to his wife and he was
also nurturing to you. He was physically present. He was emotionally present. He purposefully
put himself into the world of his wife and put himself into your world.
And so there was the eye contact. There was the self-control, the emotional control and regulation.
And so all of these things formed this model. And then you had this marriage model to look at. And then
you had your own mother affirming it and then you had your dad saying, this is what a future
husband should be to you. Very much so. And instead of just saying it, he went a step further and he
modeled it. Yeah. The other thing that I think is very helpful and it was very helpful to him. And I
find it very helpful, especially when I work with my clients, better dads and husbands when I work with
them one on one, allowing time for yourself. It is a wonderful thing to be of service to be of service
to your children and to be of service to your wife. It is also a wonderful gift to be of service
to yourself and take the time that you need to take care of yourself, whether it is I need to lay
down for 20 minutes, whether it is I need a workout, whether it's I need a break and I'm going to go
for a drive, whatever it is for that individual is incredibly important because that is also
when we give permission for ourselves to do that to take those breaks to take those pauses to care
for ourselves in the way that only we can care for ourselves. It allows us the permission to give
other people to do the same and that we can continue to support these people in our lives. And that
one I find to be very overlooked but absolutely pivotal in how people show up for other people.
I've heard I've heard it said that being a father is is a lifetime role. How has your dad impacted
your life even now as an adult? Oh goodness. My dad is when he when he's now retired, when he would work
we used to have quick conversations in the morning and it was maybe three, five minutes. Hey,
how are you doing? Oh, I'm thinking about you and if I don't get to talk to him, we'll send a quick
message thinking of you. And I think that has truly helped me as an adult because I love
getting those text messages. I love hearing from him, but I also love sending them and sending
a message that says, Hey, thinking about your calling, Hey, how's your day? And it's a reminder that also
this person has cared for me and this person has cultivated these very specific characteristics
that I love about myself that I get to share with the world. And it's a beautiful reminder that
this person is still here and still takes amazing care of himself and his family even though I'm
now 39 and I don't live at home anymore. And it's really cultivated our relationship. He kept
those qualities and he enhanced those qualities and he continues to bring them forward in every area
of his life, that kindness, that compassion, that humor and all these wonderful things that he is.
Okay, I've saved the best for last. I'm really, really excited about this.
You've created a journal that fathers and daughters can work together on. Tell me more about
how dads can find it. So dads can find this journal through my website and the link will absolutely
be attached to yours. And this is a journal that came from my clients that I have that are fathers.
And they often tell me they want to build certain characteristics with their child and they're not
too sure how to do that. And in this journal, I had created it with children in mind. So as you
mentioned, I am a speech-language pathologist and I think about language a lot. And I work with
children and children that are three years old, four years old, are not the best writers yet.
And they don't quite have those skills. But the journal that I created is for
fathers and their children to do together. And it's a beautiful thing because
fathers can write in it if they need to, but more importantly, their child can draw in it,
whether their child can write in it. And it's a great way to connect at the end of the day.
And in this journal, it says, "What made me smile today?" And you get to talk with your little one about
what was really, what made them smile that day? You, they also, or in this journal, also asks,
"I'm proud of myself." And you get to ask your child, "What are you proud of yourself?"
And encourage them to ask you the same thing. This isn't just a one-way journal. And you can say,
"Oh, what should I be proud of?" Or, "Oh, what are you proud of me for?"
Having these conversations, making little notes about them are so, so important. Another one is
the activity that I enjoyed today. So you can write down what you did, whether it was,
you know, play barbies together, or if you built blocks together, if you went for a walk,
whatever it might be. Tomorrow I'm looking forward to such and such. And again, whatever it is for
that person or whatever you're engaging in together. And another is,
what are the challenges that I face today? And I love that because we want to really look at challenges
as something that we can overcome. And it's very specifically challenges I overcame today.
Letting them know that they can't ride their tool wheel bike yet and that they have their training wheels
is okay. Letting them understand that there are certain things that they can't do yet. They can't
cross the street by themselves yet, or they can't put something up. They can't tie their shoes by
themselves yet. It's okay. They're getting better at it. And drawing their awareness that says,
challenges I overcame. Another is something I'm still working on is a great thing because it really
allows them to build that awareness of what am I doing? Well, where am I getting better? And what is
something that's really, really cool that I got to do today? And we even go as far as talking about
how their mood was. Maybe they were sick that day. Maybe they were super energetic. We also
ask about the weather in this journal. And it really helps cultivate that day, allowing you to
really come present to really be present in that moment about that day with your child. And it's about
a hundred pages long. And the nice thing is, as you can download it for free, you can send it over to
Staples. They can spiral bind it. And there you have a journal that you two can do together that
you cultivate these skills together. And you build that resiliency and you build that awareness.
And you build that kindness together. And you keep that conversation going. I keep thinking way
down the road. This journal can be a physical tangible piece of evidence of a legacy that you're
leaving as a dad. It's a legacy that a physical legacy, an example or a evidence of the legacy that
your your daughter can always carry with her and always have all of her life. And one that you have
as well in your memories are shared in this book and these connected experiences. So that's why
I'm so, so excited about this. I love that. Thank you. So Lenore, how can dads listening now connect
with you with any questions or to get help with bonding with their daughters? They can visit my
website. And I'm sure the links will be down below. And it is D-T-B horizons. And it stands for
determined to be horizons. So whatever horizon you're wanting to accomplish, whatever you're wanting
to do, that is my specialty. That's how I help people. And if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com,
that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description,
the links will be posted there as well as the links to the journal. As we close, what is your
challenge to dads listening now? My challenge to dads is to allow yourself and to give yourself
permission to be present when you're with your daughters, when you're with your children.
Allow yourself to be really, really present and to enjoy the moments because one day, we all know
things will change. Allow yourself to say, you know what? I was, I was present there. I remember that
time. That was a really cool time because those are the moments that you were going to hold so dearly.
Lenore, thank you so much for being on the fatherhoodchallenge. It's been an absolute honor.
Happy back again. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, John. It was great spending time with you
as always. Thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge. If you would like to
contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more
information about the fatherhoodchallenge, please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com. That's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Transcription - How Dads Nurture Future Scholars
If you're wondering what it takes to prepare your children at a young age for a successful
academic future at a university, this episode is for you. If you're in the process of helping
your teen with a college or university application, you need to listen to this episode before you
do anything else. My guest is here to take all the mystery and guesswork out of the college
university prep process. And he will join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere. Before we begin,
I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood Challenge in Genius Prep.
In Genius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm proud to be officially recognized
as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions
to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission
by up to 10 times. In Genius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate
themselves from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students in academics,
extra curricular activities and personal characteristics. Just this past admission cycle,
Genius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools
and 904 offers from top 50 schools. In Genius Prep students success lies within the fact that
Genius Prep is an all in one consulting firm offering every service of family needs,
whether it be test prep, tailored candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships,
the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills courses, writing courses and other customized
programs to develop their application persona to the most effective and authentic extent to share
with colleges. Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call
with one of Genius Prep's college experts or you can visit ingeniousprep.com. That's ingeniousprep.com
and let them know you came from the Fatherhood Challenge. Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,
a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role
and to challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of
their family's environment. Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you
so much for joining me. My guest is the CEO of ingenious prep Joel Butterly. Joel, thank you so much
for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. So Joel, what is your
favorite dad joke? You know, I have so many and they're all so equally bad. The one that comes to mind is
what do you call a factory that produces decent products? A satisfactory.
Thank you for sharing that. Very welcome. Oh boy, there's no way I would have figured that one out.
Well, Joel, please start by sharing the story about why and how you started ingenious prep.
Yeah, sure. So, you know, there were kind of a couple, a couple motivating factors. One of them
was I got to law school and within moments had ascertained that I did not want to be a lawyer.
So there was a quick rush out of the legal door. But perhaps more importantly, you know, when I was
applying to college, I thought I was a very strong applicant and that's certainly, you know, what I
had been told. But I kind of fundamentally lacked the guidance and resources necessary to really
distinguish myself in the competitive admissions process. And so what I did is the same thing that many
students do, which is that they sort of look around at what other people are doing and they say,
I'm going to do the same things, but I'm going to do it better. And in admissions, it's all about
standing out. And if your strategy starts with, I'm going to do the same things everyone else is doing,
you're not going to stand out. And so the idea behind ingenious was to combine kind of two elements.
One of them is sort of best in class advising. And so for that, we use a very large team of more
than 150 former admissions officers from all of the most selective schools. And they provide advice to
students. And then, and then a pool of resources such that students can actually carry out that advice.
Things like research opportunities with professors, internships, we have a startup incubator,
soft skill classes, writing classes. The idea is to is for students to have not just the advice
as to what they should do, but also the resources to actually do it. So I'm assuming there's also
ongoing support for this because these are all great ideas for standing out, but I know most people
wouldn't have a clue where to begin how to even tackle any of these tasks. Yes. So there's a, you know,
it's definitely a relatively involved program. So we have families that start with us as early as
seventh and eighth grade, although the kind of average is 10th and 11th. And so they're working with
us over the course of say one to three years on average. And all of these things are sort of part of a
a long counseling process that's that's sort of built into our curriculum. So there is guided
ongoing support and the support they're receiving. These counselors are people who I'm assuming really
understand the application process from an admission standpoint on a very intimate level.
Yes. So when I say former admissions officers, I mean that these are the individuals who are actually
working in the admissions office reading and evaluating applications and deciding who gets in and
who doesn't. So we have over over 150 close to 200 of these folks right now. And so these are people
who, you know, maybe they worked like the Columbia admissions office the prior year and they read
thousands of applications and chose which students got in which didn't. And so from our perspective,
you know, if you're going to pay for services in this particular industry, it doesn't really make sense
if to do so if that those services don't involve the viewpoint of somebody who actually worked in
admissions because the truth of the matter is that just getting into good schools doesn't actually
mean that you know why you got into a good school. Right. A student could get in for a myriad reasons.
And the admissions officer would look at them and say, oh, you didn't you didn't get in for
normal reasons. You got in for this reason. But a student might be sitting there thinking that
their experience is typical of other applicants when it's not. What can dad start doing with their kids
right now at an early age to help them develop the skills they need to get into a good university and
do so without compromising the the parent child relationship. One that I think is equal parts kind of
my parenting philosophy, but joined with the observations that I've had having seen tens of thousands of
you know young young young children middle school and high school kids is that students really do need
to be exposed to some amount of failure from a relatively young age. Something that is that is
kind of pervasive today among students that we work with them and how talented are hard working
now is that they have no ability to risk or sustain failure in such a way that precludes them from
taking risks. So you know just a simple example is we I mentioned that we have a startup incubator
where students will kind of ideate, launch and build companies and nonprofits. One of the most
challenging parts of it is convincing students to take the risk of kind of putting themselves out
there such that they can either succeed or fail. Students are so used to being in a in a world where
if you just do exactly what is instructed you're fine you can't fail. And that's of course not the way
the world is. And so I think that that's something that you know I personally will spend a good deal
of time on with my son and daughter so that they understand that it is okay to fail and that it is
desirable to take some risk and risk failure. Beyond that you know early years is mostly about
interest exploration and soft skill development. If a student kind of rolls into middle school and
high school with a really solid really strong abilities in in in academic writing, close reading,
public speaking and time management they are going to be miles ahead of the of the competition.
And then interest exploration is just the best case in areas that a student comes into
high school knowing what they're really passionate about because admissions is all about
delving really deeply into that area of passion that area and developing an expertise around that
passion. And so the best way that that fathers can you know help their their children with this is
to expose them to different disciplines like oh here's a documentary about World War One like
let's watch this together do you like it do you not like it. Here's an article I read you know in
wired about you know a new scientific breakthrough you know what do you think of it. Ultimately
school does not prepare students well for interest exploration because the this subjects that are
studied in school are sort of a blend of different things you know history even at the high school
level history is kind of an amalgam of like five different subjects sociology anthropology political
science history etc. And so it's very very helpful if students have some exposure to the actual subjects
which usually means a slightly more advanced level of content and that will do wonders for them in high
school. That's fascinating advice in the home school world for example this this strategy is a very
very common thing exposing killed children at a very early age to different disciplines different
subjects and different experiences but this is something that everyone can do whether you're a
home-schooler or whether your kids are associated with a local school district it really doesn't matter
this is something any parent or any dad can do with their children absolutely and I you know I
would say that about 10% of the parents that I speak to parents of you know younger children
middle schoolers even early high schoolers that 10% can answer the question what is your student really
passionate about and the reality is that 100% of them have the ability to ascertain that and it's
not just by asking the student what do you like it's by actually actively working with a student to
figure out okay like well what are the things that you don't like who can strip those away and of the
things that you like how do we you know so if you like biology okay well what area within biology
like you like marine biology do you like evolutionary biology and so it's an active exploration
that that you're undergoing and one thing I would advise you know parents fathers to kind of be
cognizant of is students should be able to determine what they don't like very very quickly that is
you know 30 seconds to 30 minutes they'll figure out that they don't like something to figure out
that they really do like something and a really passionate about it that can take months and so
you know you find the things that they like and then you delve deeply into those things until you
figure out which one they love that brings to mind something that I know for me could potentially be
a struggle maybe other dads out there would struggle that with us as well you have your own personal
bias that you might bring to this experience so you're exposing your kids to all these other
experiences all these other topics and subjects but you have your own passions and being able to
yes expose your children to your own passions which you should but not to let those completely
dominate to where you are projecting your your own will onto your children and not giving them a
chance to really experience or decide for themselves what they're passionate about yeah I think
that is definitely always a risk I think particularly with fathers there is a kind of natural inclination
to want your children to sort of follow in your footsteps that's not always true but it's
more true fathers than mothers for my observation you know my my advice is just you know most of these
students the ones who are are kind of led by fathers that they really respect and admire and those
are almost always the fathers who let the students be themselves don't force them to do things are
supportive or you know are kind of uplifting they tend to end up doing what the father does
the the and and that is a fairly or at least studying something that's relevant to what the father
does I don't have data but it's you know these students you know the fathers and finance and
you know the the the it's very it's very obvious to which ones have a good relationship with the
father because the ones who have a good relationship with the father they say oh I'm interested in
business or I'm interested you know I'm interested in finance or I'm interested in this or that
and it's obviously something that you know the the student is proud of that they that they would be
kind of pursuing it and then there's the ones the students where there's kind of an obvious
tension between the student and the father usually because the father is extremely disapproving
and and a little bit overbearing and in those cases the student usually chooses the thing that's
going to most annoy the father which is you know the father says something like this and says
well I want to study you know medieval Russian literature or something like that like that so I
would say you know if you're doing if you're if you're if you're you know doing a good job of letting
the students sort of be themselves and and and explore and you're giving them the opportunity to
to pursue other interests beyond the things that interest you more often than not you will find
that you have greater level of conformity to your interests than if you push too hard.
Let's talk about middle schoolers what can a dad of a middle of a middle schooler focus on to make
sure their child is Ivy League material. There's a lot of noise made I mean everywhere in the media
in in like you know by other companies in this industry about how convoluted and complicated
the the admissions process was I think that the the there was an article it was either the Atlantic
or the Wall Street Journal that was you know the title of which was sort of like the the most
complicated admissions year of all time something like that that was this year and there are a lot of
nuances there are complexities but fundamentally I I I firmly believe that the admissions process
is actually pretty straightforward and that 80 to 90 percent of how decisions are actually made
revolve around just two variables and and this is quite consistent both anecdotally and from
the sort of data analysis that we've done so getting into an Ivy League school getting into any
selective school but but the let's just say Ivy League is really about these two things the first
is are you academically qualified whichever one knows about you have to have good grades great test
scores when people don't understand as the grades and test scores are kind of a binary variable they're
not a they don't they don't exist on a sliding scale meaning that you either are qualified or you
are not there's no such thing is like if there's no school where if you have a 15 50 you are less
academically qualified than this than if you have a 1600 on the SAT in both cases you're qualified
it doesn't matter whether you're applying to UC Berkeley or to Princeton the you know it your qualified
and so the important thing to understand there is you don't necessarily have to be number one
you have to be above a certain threshold and what that threshold is depends on the school that
you're applying to and for your GPA it also depends on the high school that you're at for like an
average competitive private school if you're in the top 10 percent of your grade academically
you're probably academically qualified for most schools or like the most highly selective schools
including most of the Ivy League and that's a very rough shorthand but you know generally speaking
holds true that's variable one variable two is and this is really where most of the heavy lifting is
done because at schools like Harvard and Yale anywhere between 60 to 80 percent of the applicant pool
is academically qualified and of that population fewer than one in 10 is actually admitted
so variable two does much of the heavy lifting that is basically are you an expert at something
have you identified a passion or an interest as young as possible and have you developed that
passion or interest to the point that you can rightfully be called an expert for your age group
so the reason that I went through this long explanation is that that that sort of creates the
framework for for for fathers in terms of how to help their students in middle school it is interest
exploration and it is soft skill development reading writing public speaking time management study skills
and throw that in there the the and then in high school it is about taking that interest that you
have ascertained in middle school or before and developing the most sophisticated comprehensive
extracurricular profile you can so probably not necessarily going to this level of detail but assuming
that the kid is interested in public health first thing might be students start to public health
group at their school shows leadership it's not super unique a lot of students do stuff like this but
it shows leadership in its related to your interests then they do community based opportunities they
they they volunteer for you know local hospital volunteers in EMT etc then maybe they work with a
professor they write a research paper of of of their own maybe they submitted for publication
maybe they start a public health organization of their own kind of within their in their community
that's what an expert looks like so you sort of it's sort of these stepping stones in increasing
complexity but that's what fathers should be focused on most most of all the soft skill development
followed by interest exploration and then an extracurricular enhancement i'm backing up just
a little bit to something you said helping them get published write a paper and actually get
become a publication my my wife post phd is is at that point where she has been working really
hard to try to get her material published this is why I'm fascinated by this because you are
starting very very advanced skills very very early in their lives before they even get into an
Ivy League school before they're even ready for a phd program yeah yeah um so my my my my also wrapped
up a phd has gone through the somewhat our juiced process of getting your dissertation wow um the um
yeah so so just to be clear you know when high school students are publishing they're not publishing
in in professional journals that is that is that is that is it would be I think far too tall in order
for basically every high schooler um the uh normally what they're doing is they're submitting to
peer-reviewed journals that are uh that are peer-reviewed by high schoolers college students more
most often college students are phd candidates and so there are a few of these like we we work with um
the journal of student research the national high school journal of science the um scholarly review
and they're all they're all you know reputable organizations that publish work from uh mostly high
school and college students um and and so that that's sort of what you'd be going for it's not
enough to just sort of throw your your you know research paper any you know like on Facebook or you
know on medium.com any place where you can just pay to play that's not really going to confirm much
of an advantage um but if there's a selection process and a review process um then um it can be
quite valuable how do you balance getting your child into school activities or extracurricular
programs they enjoy versus pushing them into activities that will help their academic success
and do so without straining relationships. What I would say is if if if sort of a college what's
called a college counseling approach whether that's done by you know a professional firm or by parents
uh if done correctly most of the students time should be dedicated to uh well time other than studying
will be dedicated to extracurricular activities that relate directly to their area of passion um the so
you know they'll still play sports they'll still may play music maybe um but the you know the the
thrust of what they are spending time on outside of um outside of schoolwork um are going to be these
extracurricular activities related to passion so that is to say maybe they would prefer to play video
games but this isn't going to you don't you really very rarely have to push students to do something
that they hate unless what they hate is studying um the there's not really a simple and there's not
really a kind of a a great solution so what to do if a student really just despises studying or
like really needs help in biology and won't work to work with like a tutor or something like that
unfortunately those are circumstances in which I have found that it's less about trying to get the
student to enjoy it and it's more about having helping them understand what are the consequences in
their you know their life if if they went when presented with something they don't want to do but
that which will help them in life they consistently back down um the so I think that that sort of like
the outcome analysis is pretty important there but for the most part the the balance should be simple
because the best thing they can do is find something that they really love doing and then do a lot
more of it um the yeah hopefully that answers the questions it does I think that's very very helpful
I always love good stories especially when they're true please share some success stories with us
about parents kids or teens that ingenious has helped to become successful sure one of our one of the first
that I was super proud of this is I mean this is back in this company and just started I think it was
2013 maybe 2014 um and uh there was a student um I'm not gonna obviously won't use his name um but his uh
his parents had you know recently immigrated from um a relatively um impoverished country
they were trying to make it running a very small pizza parlor um and he was working kind of nonstop
weekdays weekends um uh or week nights weekends um you know to to help the parents make ends meet um
and he had pretty good grades um the and he had a quite a relatively low kind of SAT score all things
considered it was I think a like a 1200 or something like that which is not not in the grand scheme
of things low but low for the schools he was interested in um and in the end he he he ended up getting
into Yale with a full scholarship which we were you know ecstatic about the the the we wow
spectacular um outcome um so so so that was that was great um another one that comes to mind we
had a student um the he was from california um he's really interested in being a doctor he joined
our startup incubator and he wanted to create a non-profit related to water filtration so
one of the things that he had read at the start of our program was um that when there are natural
disasters many of the deaths in some cases the majority of the deaths are not the result of the
natural disaster itself the lack of access to a clean water and food um and so he wanted to partner
with NGOs that worked in these disaster areas to to offer water filtration devices so he raised
money he purchased industrial strength water filtration devices he sent them over to these NGOs
in the process he actually saved human lives like we got pictures of people whose lives oh wow
you know on unbelievable um so impressive um he unsurprisingly ended up he got it got into Harvard
and Stanford I think he went to Harvard um the but but that you know obviously these are not
that's not a common achievement obviously um but this was not a student if you met the student
so this is a smart student is a good student um but this is you know this was not necessarily someone
that you would expect to have such a tremendous achievement at a young age um and so that was
really remarkable um I could go on but those those two come to mind immediately let's go on to stats
do you have any stats that reflect a difference in results of those who choose ingenious versus those
who don't is there a good age to start working with a child yeah that's a great question and I have
very very strong opinions about it um the so um the way that companies market themselves
in in this industry um is they say okay this is how many Ivy League admits we had this is how many
top 10 top 30 top 50 top 100 etc and there are several problems with that and and we we do that too
the the we just don't do that exclusively but the there are problems with this in my mind the the
the essentially being number one you do not know how many students they worked with so if they have
10 Ivy League admits and they had a thousand students that's not necessarily all that good um
the the the other hand if they had 10 Ivy League admits in 15 students that's spectacular um the
but you don't know that and the companies don't disclose that and so that that's problem number one
the second problem is that companies will often kind of hand pick students based on their grades
and test scores because those are the students who are likely to succeed in the admissions process
and then um and in turn the company can sort of take credit for this work that the student is already
done um I don't I personally feel like that is kind of a violation of the educational mission um
of companies in this industry like the goal here yeah an agent the goal is to be like an educator um
and that just doesn't square with my understanding of what it means to be an educator but it's still
exceedingly common um and and so you also don't know that and so the way that we kind of internally
the way that that I think of this and the way that we we think of you know sort of results and how
to know the the difference is that we compare our student population to a population of students who
didn't work with us but who have comparable grades and test scores and so what we do is we literally
buy applications um and we have a data analyst who makes this comparison between those applicants who
didn't work with us and those who did and what we find is that students who work with us on average
are seven times as likely to get into a top 10 school and six times as likely to get into a top 30 school
um which when you're when you're thinking about it you know at any of these schools you might
your probability of success might be somewhere between five and 10 percent right the the which
means that if you apply to like five reach schools and there are those schools are all five to 10
percent probability says you're being rejected by all of them um if you set up a or sex
topple though those numbers um multiply by six or seven um the uh all of a sudden your probability of
getting into at least one is extraordinarily high and so it's the difference between being overwhelmingly
likely to be rejected by all versus being overwhelmingly likely to be admitted by at least one um
the so so that's sort of how I when I think about how good is the service is the service valuable
that's what I'm thinking about is what is the improved probability that improved likelihood
that you succeed um and it's uh and and so hopefully that kind of catches on in the industry but I
I that's from my perspective really the the only thing you should concern yourself about from an
outcome perspective um because everything else can be sort of manipulated in terms of um the
when good age to start working with us a student I mean the the the kind of my blunt answer is
earlier is generally better for college preparation the absolute earliest that I imagine being
truly valuable is seventh or eighth grade um I do not think that doing things in sixth grade or
elementary school uh that are related to college admissions are particularly useful like you can do
soft skill development at those ages but you really can't do much in the way of you know extracurricular
enhancement etc um it is more expensive to start earlier um the right so if you're working with a
farm the longer the service goes the more expensive it is that's that that's the nature of the the
the kind of nature of the beast I would say that there's in terms of best bang for your buck probably
tenth grade honestly um the which is to say like you know if if I were to put this in terms of increased
probability of success what we find is that students who start work with us just on twelfth grade are
about two to three times as likely to get into a uh into a top school um students who start with us
in eighth or ninth grade or or earlier um are closer to nine times as likely um and students who
start with us in tenth are about seven times as likely and there's a pretty steep drop off between
tenth and eleventh for a variety of reasons but so if I if I if I'm a parent and I'm trying to think
about this in terms of how do I get the best bang for my buck I'm probably going tenth grade um
the if I'm thinking about this in their respective how do I get the absolute best outcome I would start
earlier I would start in eighth or ninth grade um the that's probably the the the best best case
scenario um and you know I would say it's it's it's it's always worth it to get to get advice from
my perspective or at least to get get good advice um that it's always worth uh the the investment or
it's often worth the investment obviously depends on the organization um but you should never feel
like you're just it's too late because even if it's twelfth grade even if it's you two two months
until the applications are due you still have time to do some uh to to to make a really big
difference to double or triple your probability of success can ingenious help students who are
interested in applying to a university outside of the United States oh yeah absolutely so we
have a lot of students the UK's become quite popular so we help a lot of we have a whole UK division
we help students apply to universities in Canada we've helped students apply to universities in
France and China and Korea um in Australia and New Zealand um so so yeah all over the place I'd
say that you know the US is by far kind of the most popular um and then uh UK and Canada and then
the rest how can dads learn more about ingenious listen to the podcast or ask questions our website
ingeniousprep.com um the you can contact uh one of our colleagues on on that website um you know one
of those little chat boxes um you can also reach out and request a consultation which is basically
we'll sit down and we'll talk with you and your child um about you know what what what what they've
done what they should focus on how they can sort of best improve their their chances of success and
we'll also talk through kind of our our programs and services um and we also have we have a a kind of
ongoing podcast um the inside the admissions office um with noelle um the and that can be found on
any any place where you listen to your podcasts um the so it's it's it's I think it's available
at all kind of major outlets just to make things easier if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com
that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com if you go to this episode look right below the episode
description I will have all of the links and references that Joel just mentioned posted right
there for your convenience Joel as we close what is your challenge to dad's listening now my challenge is
mostly can you take the time and have the patience um to slowly mentor your students starting from a
young age you know maybe five six years away from the college applications um with an eye towards
building you know a candidacy for this the student that is rich in both academic accomplishments and
also extracurricular accomplishment um you know what I find is that it takes it's relatively it can
be slow moving can be a bit frustrating you don't see much in the way of like tangible outcomes
immediately like that's just the nature of this is that the tangible outcomes they come much later
um but the foundation it happens much earlier um and so kind of taking taking that as a as a challenge
I think and it's something that I challenged kind of myself with all the time with my son um you know
it's it's it's very hard to sit there and try to help try to see if does he like to tinker with things
is he you know does he have kind of an engineering mind or does he prefer to analyze like logical
problems and and does he have a more analytical one um and it can be a bit frustrating it can be a bit
boring um but I think uh that that in the long run is very well worth it. Joel this has been a very
helpful conversation both for me and I know for dads listening thank you so much for being on the
fatherhood challenge thank you so much and thank you so much for having me thank you for listening
to this episode of the fatherhood challenge if you would like to contact us listen to other
episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the fatherhood
challenge please visit the fatherhood challenge dot com that's the fatherhood challenge dot com
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Do you ever feel like parenting is hard because your past trauma of abandonment or neglect has left you feeling empty with little to give your own family? My guest has been down this road and will share his own story and what he's learned from his own experience.
Don Stinson is a podcast host, producer and author. As a dad coach he is passionate about inspiring fatherhood by turning challenges into connections.
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Transcription - A Dad’s Journey From Abandonment to Forgiveness
Do you ever feel like parenting is hard because your past trauma of abandonment or neglect
has left you feeling empty or with little to give your family?
My guest has been down that road and he's here to help, so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important
fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Don Stenson.
Don is a podcast host, producer and author.
As a dad, he is passionate about inspiring fatherhood by turning challenges into connections.
Don, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Jonathan, thanks so much for having me here.
Happy to be here.
Don, I got to ask, what is your favorite dad joke?
I heard once somebody tell me that they once worked in a bubblegum factory and they
got in trouble and their boss really chewed them out.
I love that one.
Yeah, a little bait and switch sometimes.
So Don, let's jump right to it.
You grew up experiencing abandonment as a child.
Would you please share that story with us?
Yeah, I grew up in Jolietta, Illinois, and you know, that's my hometown Jolietta, it's
about an hour outside of Chicago.
You know, it's what a lot of people call a very blue collar community in some sense there.
We've just got everybody out there.
And growing up, it was difficult for me because I had a, you know, mom and dad, but you know,
dad leaves when I'm about three years old.
And that was just kind of a pattern he had in his life.
And my mom tried to do the best that she could, but you know, she had her own struggles.
She had my brother when she was 15 years old and then I had a couple of sisters that she
had in between and then she had me when she was 40 years old from a separate marriage there.
So, you know, my mom, she grew up with her own abandonment and trauma issues as well.
And those things were kind of carried through.
So, you know, that's kind of the tough part is when you have dad leave when you're three,
you know, who fills that gap, right?
And I had a stepfather that came in eventually and, you know, he and I just kind of never clicked
in that sense, but, you know, looking back, I realized how much that community of Jolietta
just came forward to help me out.
And Jonathan, it was just so cool to think back about how many teachers and church leaders
and coaches came out to help me out and in various ways.
You know, sometimes it was, they were kind of noticing we didn't have enough food.
So, you know, I got some teachers sending me home with like a loaf of bread and some peanut
butter.
Other times I have teachers that just kind of understand maybe I'm needing some advice
at some point in my life for recommendations for jobs.
So, you know, that's kind of the short end of it there to me.
There's always that silver lining of like, hey, maybe dad wasn't there, but it was kind
of cool to have these almost surrogate and substitute parents that came out that were just
really, really concerned with making our community better and focusing on the kids in the community.
It's interesting. You had an experience of what I call surrogate dads in your life.
How did they save you and how important are they to every community?
Yeah, I think one of the ways that they came in to help me through was number one being
observant.
You know, it's those things.
When you ever see a kid that's maybe wearing clothes, they're a little bit too small for them
or maybe they're not as clean or kept up as much as they should be, you know, that's where
some of these people came in.
They were observant of that.
Sometimes it was talking to mom a little bit about those things.
Other times it was kind of politely speaking to me about maybe things I needed to do better,
things that I needed to take care of on my own.
So there's that part where there's a little bit of that direct help and that was more like
elementary school.
As I get older and my passions start to turn more towards music, I was a trumpet player
in my high school band.
That's where you start to get a little closer to people that as a kid you want to be like.
So I wanted to be like my trumpet teacher and I wanted to be like my high school band
directors and my junior high band directors and other mentors in town.
So in that sense when you start to develop that relationship, you know, sometimes you know,
at a distance as it should be, I think sometimes with teachers and students, it was interesting
to see how that feedback could be more specific, right?
So I started to get things from my high school band director about, hey, maybe we're focusing
less on workouts at his school right now.
We know that you need money for this.
Maybe we're focusing more on trumpet playing.
Maybe we're focusing more on, you know, he would line me up for gigs.
You know, what does that mean?
I know you're a musician as well, Jonathan.
It meant like I went from making, at that point in the 90s, I think it was $6 an hour at
the sandwich shop to my high school band director setting me up teaching trumpet lessons that
were like $15.5 an hour, you know, and I kind of look at that thing, right?
And as a high school, you're like, cool, I'm more than doubled my salary, quote unquote,
here.
But I remember looking back at those things and it was, it was a little more involved
with that.
He wanted me to get better at my craft at the same time.
He knew money was an issue.
He knew that I had to contribute to the household and, you know, had to actually help with some
of the household debt at that point.
So, you know, it's those fine little details of people that just come in and help.
You know, and then you understand some things.
You know, it's interesting when teachers open up.
I had a, you know, I talked about my father where he left when I was three, but I did see
him again one time.
And if I remember correctly, he was driving down the road in his van and I was in another
car and I look over and he kind of looks at me and then doesn't really say hi or anything.
I think we locked eyes and knew who each other was and that he just kind of kept driving,
right?
So, those are things that they kind of sit with you.
But you know, I'll never forget a high school English teacher that I had, Mike Riley.
And we had these papers that were due and it was really important for us to get these papers
in on Monday and they were going to be graded by Thursday or something.
And Mr. Riley comes in on that Thursday and goes, "Hey, I didn't get your papers graded,
you know?"
And we're just rumbling, and this is the first time I heard this from a man.
And Mike Riley goes, you know, it was my week with my boy, he was divorced.
He goes, "It was my week with my boy, he comes first, we had a chance for some extra time
last night, so all your papers, they'll be graded later.
I got to pay attention to my boy."
Wow.
And that one thing, you know, I think I heard that when I was 16 or 17.
And you know, we stopped grumbling.
We were like, "Oh, okay."
And that was one of those pieces of information you get when you're 16 or 17 and it kind of
has to sit and it has to stew for a little bit.
And then when you're in your 30s, all of a sudden, you know, there's this little flashback
to that and that, you know, was kind of piece of information I had early on, but that I wasn't
able to use until much later.
And it was something I'll always remember, you know, when it comes to my own children.
And when it comes to what really is the priority, right?
We all have obligations, we all things that we do have to get done.
No one wants to get fired from their job because they're not performing, but there's also
sometimes, you know, those places where if you can make the choice, you know, I know what
choice I'm making then.
You and I actually had very similar experiences.
So I'll back up to the whole surrogate father topic.
I remember, and I was taking, yes, we were both musicians.
We have that in common.
After one of my piano lessons, I got ready to leave and my piano teacher's husband came
up to me and he asked me, when's the last time you've changed the oil on your car?
And I couldn't remember and I told him I couldn't remember.
And he says, all right, well, it's time to get that done.
And he said, here's what you need.
So he made a list for me.
And he says, get these things.
After your next lesson, you're going to help me change the oil on my truck.
And then after that, we're going to change the oil on your car.
This led from there to being able to and learning how to do tune ups, learning how to do break
jobs, basic car care maintenance.
So he filled that gap.
He knew that was missing in my life.
And he didn't make a big deal out of it.
He just stepped in and filled that role.
And so to this day, I've been very conscious about making sure my own two sons have those
exact same skills and that they don't have to to miss those experiences.
The other thing was the poverty growing up without a lot of money around, short money for things
like class functions that everyone else in my class seemed to be able to afford.
But I couldn't.
Well, I had a cello teacher.
I was also in the orchestra as well.
I worked really, really, really, really hard to get into the small group orchestra.
It was more like a string quintet, but I worked really, really hard to get there because only
the best players could get into that group.
He was also very aware of the financial troubles that we had.
So he got me into the director got me into that group.
And on the weekends, we would play at weddings and funerals.
Sometimes we would play at churches.
And we would get paid for those gigs.
And it was very, very good money.
And I can't tell you how many times that saved me financially.
And I was always grateful that he saw that need and he looked out for me.
And it wasn't a handout.
I had to really work to get into that group.
But he made sure that that was recognized and gave me a good shot at it.
Yeah.
So to hit on that point with your own kids, I mean, that's where I often am, right?
I try to go back to the first time I learned some things.
We all learned something for the first time at one point, right?
I don't know when I learned to not put aluminum foil in the microwave, but I know not to.
There are those things.
But it's all those other little life lessons.
And I think about those things.
I don't know, coming to school and I remember I had a band director take me to the side and
I think I was wearing like black shoes and a brown belt.
But it happened to be one of those belts that had, you know, brown on one side black on
the other was like a reversible one, right?
Right.
And he's like, Hey, I have that same belt.
He's like, a little life less.
He's like, why don't you go to the bathroom and change this up?
You should match your belt, right?
And I'm sure somebody out there in the fashion world is going to be like, actually, like
whatever, right?
But it's those, those, so many of those little things that came from so many different areas.
You know, but you hit upon the work thing as well.
You know, did you, did you have this at all?
Because I, man, I really learned how to work and I learned that, you know, I could, I could
go make some money.
But it was, it was fascinating because I started playing my trumpet in churches when I was
12 and I started mowing lawns before that and I was, I was working constantly.
And I remember when I hit my mid 30s, I'm like, I couldn't shut that off.
Like it was, it was just like I could not stop working because that is what I have spent
most of my life doing.
And I kind of had to make some choices, you know, at that point to say, like, listen, maybe,
the point of my life is not just to work.
You know, maybe, maybe I can be a family member and a father and maybe even more useful to
myself by like, taking a little bit of this time off, but my gosh, that was hard to do to
stop that.
Yes, it's been instinctive and there are times I wonder if, in some ways, maybe that
has not been a survive, if it hasn't been a survival instinct just because of, of
growing up really, really poor.
I had one of, oh man, this, this was, this was a difficult situation.
When I graduated high school, my, my mom bought me a gateway 2000 laptop.
Right.
I remember those.
Yeah, this was 2000, two, sorry, 2002.
And you know, my parents, like they, they re, my mom and my stepdad, they really used their
credit cards a lot, like, really went, went deep into that.
And I'll never forget how like heartbreaking this was for my mom.
She was trying to do something nice for me and she buys this laptop and six months later
she comes to me crying.
She can't make the payments anymore.
She has to hand the payments off to me.
So now I am, wow, but I can't take back, you know, and she, like, this was, they weren't
cheap back then, you know, it's not like you can get a Chromebook today for a hundred bucks,
right?
And I remember being handed over with this like $2,000 debt, you know, at, at that point.
So, you know, it's, it's fascinating because those people we talked about, they, they came
in, in so many different ways at a college band director that I would often speak with
about finances.
You know, like, just the way my parents operated, everything was credit cards and it was a
normal thing to have a car payment, you know, and I remember him saying, like, you know,
dude, like, there's another way, you know, are you okay driving some like, beat her for a
while?
Like, yeah, I'm fine.
Well, I still drive one today.
It's, you know, and, you know, it's just, it was interesting with that, you know, those
type of things, just again, to hear that other way.
And sometimes that information was con, you know, contradicting what my mom would say, you
know, because my mom's like, no, you have a car payment.
You get the nicest car you can buy.
That's a way of life.
You know, then I hear somebody else saying, go buy something 10, 15 years old that you can
pay cash with today.
It will be fine, right?
So that's, you know, just those things where you kind of get confused about it when you're
younger, but the first time you try it out, it's like, all right, it's not that my parents
were bad in some sense.
This is just what, you know, they were, they were trying to do the best they could with what
they knew, you know, unfortunately, sometimes what they knew just kind of kept them in that
cycle.
I want to change direction a little bit.
How does a dad who's experienced abandonment from a father begin healing to a point where
he has something valuable to give his family?
To me, when I did it, effectively, it was a giant, sloppy mess, but it was necessary,
you know, so, you know, there were those questions I had of like, hey, what was wrong with me?
Why, why didn't he want me?
Why wouldn't he come around?
You know, is what my mom is saying is true, even though everybody else is like what they're
saying does line up with, you know, this picture that I'm getting of my dad.
You know, so there's that part.
There's the questioning stage of it.
And, you know, for me, it was, it was fascinating because I always had these questions about it.
Eventually, you know, I did get to that reality of like, he's gone, he's not coming back.
This is what it is.
And he was a very interesting character, my dad.
Really loved his name.
I posted about this recently in LinkedIn, but his name was Don.
He was married to my mom.
They got a dog, a golden retriever, and they named him Donnie.
A couple years later, I was born.
They named me Don.
So, the dog gets, you know, changed to pups.
You can read about it online.
Like, later on in my 30s, I found a brother, his name is Don, and it turned out that he's a brother
of my dad.
And so, this family tree is like a giant tumbleweaver, but a half brother from my dad and a different
wife that he had.
So, there's that, but this was a guy that, you know, was always skirting the law.
He was, you know, never paying child support.
He worked for a water softener company.
And at one point, got drunk and sold the water softener band for more beer money, his boss
bailed them out.
Just, again, just really interesting, fascinating things, right?
So, to that point, you have those questions.
You do have, for me, that point in my life where I had to work so hard to prove I wasn't him,
you know, and I thought I had to prove it to other people when they weren't really putting
me in that position.
It was me.
But, you know, there came to be a point, I remember, where when I found my brother and I have
a sister in California as well, I reconnected with them or connected with them.
I should say over the first time and we spoke and everyone was great and it was just really
fun.
And I want to say about two or three weeks later, I get a call from a number in town and
it's like this local assisted living apartment place.
It's in like a worst part of town.
And, you know, these people call, they say, "Hey, are you, is this Don Stinson?"
And I'm like, you know, I'm from Jolly, I sound like, "Well, who's asking?"
They said, "Well, you know, we looked up this number, it looks like you're related to one
of our residents, Donaldson's and senior, that just passed away as your father."
That was interesting.
So, a lot of that healing process looked like going to that apartment.
At that point, they had taken his body away, but, you know, they said I could go to the apartment
and I call them up.
I'm like, "I want to see it."
So, I went there, I get a key from the front office after showing my ID.
They told me, they said, "By the way, when you get up there, they said, "Want you rush
up there and I want you shut the door and lock it because you're dead owed quite a few
people money."
He was like selling his prescription pills to them and whatever else, okay?
Great.
So, I get up there and I just spend time in this apartment.
And, you know, it's interesting when I talk about how messy it was.
It's me sitting in this just awful apartment.
You know, he at that point was on oxygen, but I think he was still smoking and drinking a
lot.
He got a closet full of oxygen tanks.
We've got cigarette butts everywhere, places dirty, like whatever.
I sit down in this couch and I just have this conversation with myself.
And I think saying a lot of those things out loud, to me about, "Hey, this is my past.
Maybe I came from you or you're a part of me, but I really do have the control to go forward
and the control to be something different."
And also Jonathan, just that acceptance, it is going to be a harder for me.
There might be some things I never release, but I can at least shorten the time that I
get stuck in those places.
And I think having that conversation in that apartment really did help me out.
And it was, you know, it was interesting to do that.
I think it helped me release quite a few things, gave me permission to be myself and do what
I needed to do, not to prove to somebody else or myself that I wasn't this guy, but just
because this is what I want to do.
So I was there for a bit.
I was there for an hour and a half.
There were a couple knocks on the door.
I did not answer.
I remember when I left that apartment, locked it up real quick.
I heard a couple, "Hey, hey, and just ran to that stairwell and got out of there."
But that's kind of where to me, that catalyst was just cool.
Here's the next stage of your life.
I'm thinking about a lot of dads that may be in similar situations.
So this next question is really important.
And that is, what role has forgiveness played in giving you that freedom to be at your best
for your own family?
That hate and sadness and questioning, I mean, that, you know, confusion and hurt, like that
just eats you up.
And it takes up so much real estate in your head.
And I've heard before, like, "Hey, forgive, but don't forget."
And I understand that.
But it does take quite a bit of work to get to a place where your actions and your state
of mind aren't held up by anybody else.
And I mean anybody else.
And it's some hard work.
To me, it's like, I started with the little things, you know, like I wanted to get to a place
where I, my actions were completely independent of the outcome.
So if I walked up to you today and I just gave you $20 as a gift and you said thank you
and then you took out a lighter and just burned that $20 in front of me, like, "I don't
care.
I did my part."
That sounds a little bit like, "Wow, that's pretty extreme, right?"
But that was what I was trying to work towards, which is, you know, I am here to give and
to help out.
And I'm not in it for the thank you.
I'm not in it for, you know, the appreciation or anything else, whether it's my family members
or my students or people that I'm coaching, you know, it's like this is what I do.
And, you know, so then it kind of goes a little deeper, right?
Because now we're talking about somebody else's actions that, or in actions that have kind
of made your life more difficult, right?
So, you know, there is part of it where I have to look at it and go, "Hey, I've gotten some
really cool opportunities because I know how to work, right?
I have gone through some significant challenges."
So there is that part where I certainly appreciate that, you know, I don't think I'd be where
I am today without these challenges and without having just really crawl through some things,
you know, but there's that other part too where the baggage comes in with it, right?
So that's to me where the work kind of came in where it's like, "All right, if I'm going
to be appreciative of what I got out of this, then that's really what I do have to focus
on.
I do have to recognize, yes, you know, these things.
Did have an effect?
Cool.
I'm going to have to really dig deep and do some very, very difficult work.
But, you know, the other thing too, it's like, I look at my partner and I, we share six kids,
like, the reality is, I don't really have time anymore to be an effective partner and
parent and community member and have all of that stuff in my head.
You know, it takes away from what I meant to do and what I love to do.
How can dads learn more about what you're doing, get your books or get help from you?
I'm pretty active on the LinkedIn platform now.
So if they look me up on LinkedIn, Don Stinson, and if you look up anything with Don Stinson
Fatherhood, that stuff should come up there.
My website, Don Stinson.net, I think is a good way to contact me as well on there.
Just to make it easier if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description, I will have all of
the links that Don just mentioned posted there for your convenience.
And Don, as we close, what is your challenge to Dad's listening now?
I want dads to go out and find another dad or guy to confide in and potentially vent to.
I don't want guys just venting to their, their life.
You know, I want guys to be there for each other.
And I think that part is so important.
You know, growing up and even now in my 40s.
I have no problem calling someone up and essentially saying, how do I parent?
You know?
I have this specific issue right now.
I need help with it.
This is what I have tried.
I try to bring some people, some solutions first that I tried and bound some things off.
But I mean, for me at least, I am finally at a point.
I absolutely know shame in asking for this help and I think anyone out there that hasn't,
that damn hasn't broken for you yet.
I just try to find two or three people.
You know, even if it's like, hey, I just want to talk to another guy right now about some
of these things.
And I think you will be absolutely surprised.
Number one, how welcoming people are and how helpful they can be.
And I think also like, we're not alone.
There are a lot of people going through the same things and celebrating the same things
that we have and you know, kind of trying to navigate the same stress that all of us have
as well.
So I think it's really just trying to build your own community.
God, thank you so much for your wisdom that you shared with me and shared with this audience.
And thank you so much for being on the Father of Challenge.
It's been absolutely honor having you.
I loved it.
This is a lot of fun, Jonathan.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in
this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
[MUSIC]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Are you a dad of a child with a disability and you are hurting for a sense of community with other dads like you who understand your daily life experience? Are you looking for help such as resources or just someone to talk with or ask questions? My guest is here to help.
David Hirsch is a podcast host, dad of 5 and the creator of a network for fathers raising kids with special needs called Special Fathers Network.
To take the assessment mentioned in this episode or to learn more about Special Fathers Network visit:https://21stcenturydads.org/
Email David Hirsch at: david@21stcenturydads.org
Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dad-to-dad-podcast/id1373738974
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Dads of Differently-Abled Kids
Are you a dad of a child with a disability and you are hurting for a sense of community
with each other with other dads like you who understand your daily life experience?
Are you looking for help such as resources or just someone to talk to or ask questions?
My guest is here to help in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their families environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is David Hirsch, a podcast host, a data five and a creator of a network for
fathers raising kids with special needs called Special Fathers Network.
David, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Jonathan, thanks so much for the opportunity.
I really, really enjoy the work that you do.
One of my favorite questions is what is your favorite dad joke?
I don't know if it's my favorite one, but here's one.
Where do you learn to make banana splits?
Where do you learn Sunday school?
They're not see that one coming.
Well David, there has to be a story behind why you got involved with helping dads with special
needs children and why you started Special Fathers Network.
What is your story?
So I want to become a father for the first time at age 27 years ago.
I was looking for fatherhood resources and couldn't find what I was looking for, but stumbled
across some statistics.
24 million kids growing up in father apps and homes, four out of every 10 in America.
The perception that it's those poor inner city black kids and it's really bad in the black
community.
Maybe seven or eight out of 10 are growing up in father apps and homes, but in absolute
numbers, there are two times number of white versus black children in America growing
up without their dads.
So it's not somebody else's problem.
Not led to helping start the Illinois fatherhood initiative.
One of the countries first statewide, not for profit, fatherhood organizations, the signature
program of which is the annual father of the year essay program, which is attracted, no
exaggeration, more than 425,000 Illinois youth K through 12 who write essays to the theme,
what my father means to me, fathers, grandfathers, stepfathers, father figures for that matter.
And that organization still exists in the mission of that Illinois fathered an initiative as
to actively engage fathers in the education of children about seven years ago when my
baby went off to college.
I felt like I was talking to me and he said, what I thought I heard was you should do a
cross country bicycle ride and I said, well, you obviously have the wrong person.
I don't own a bike you could ride across the country and I'm not an endurance bike rider,
but I couldn't shake the idea, talk to some friends who were known endurance bike riders,
bought a bike, started training, put a crew together, put a plan together, flew out to
LA, peddled back from Santa Monica to Chicago, 21 days, 2,325 miles.
And I lived to tell the story.
I was then 54 years old, didn't know that I had something like that in me and it was
a transformative experience on a lot of different levels.
And I felt like I found my voice.
I had been talking about the importance of father involvement, but with all the media print
radio TV media that we were doing across the country, that led to giving a TEDx talk in
October of 2015, entitled Why We Need to Break the Cyclothother Absence, beginning of 2016,
I ended up writing a book, my first book entitled A Father's Journey to Break the Cyclothother
Absence, which is a little bit about the bicycle ride, more about the advocacy, and a little
bit, I started talking then about the relationship or a lack of a relationship that I have with
my dad.
So that was the beginning of the 21st Century Dads Foundation and a couple of three years
into it, it wasn't meeting one of our objectives.
What I mean by that is that we anticipated that we would be able to get the fatherhood
programs, school based, workplace programs to work together, and we couldn't.
So we thought about closing the 21st Century Dads Foundation down, but before we did that,
we thought we would identify the four most challenging areas for fathers that we could identify.
The first was raising kids in high poverty areas, like urban areas.
The second was working within incarcerated dads, and then it had been removed not only
from their family, but from society at large.
The third was working with teen fathers, men who become fathers in most cases inadvertently
as teenagers.
And then the fourth area is working with fathers raising children with special needs.
Those are the four areas that we found to be the most challenging, our board, the not-for-profit
board, narrowed it down to the last two categories, teen fathering, dad raising kids with special
needs, and that was the beginning of the special fathers network, this dad-to-dad mentoring
program for fathers raising children with special needs.
In our simple notions of a year ago was that we would recruit a small army of seasoned
dads, dads who have ten or more years of experience raising a child or in some cases,
children with special needs, and match them to the dads who are close to the beginning
of their journey raising a child with a similar or special need.
So that's the short story.
So basically you have dads older or more experienced dads mentoring newer dads.
That's exactly it.
So that's how it started.
And then with storytelling, like I was making reference to the youth writing stories about
their dads, somebody says to me one day, "Hey, Hirsch, what do you think about podcasting?"
And I thought the question was, "What do I like about listening to podcasts?"
I said that they're entertaining, they're informative, some of them are inspirational.
So now what do you think about listening to podcasts?
What do you think about hosting a podcast?
I said, "Well, that's pretty comical.
I'm an investment advisor.
That's what I do, occupationally.
I have no experience with interviewing, no radio experience, no editing production experience.
That's a funny thing."
And so, you should think about it.
You'd be sincere.
I think you'd do a good job.
So those were the seeds that were planted that germinated very quickly into what we know
today as the Special Fathers Network or SFN Dad-A-Dad podcast, which just recently produced
its 300th episode.
So it's mostly dads, dad's, dad's, dad's, father figures telling the story about raising
a child or children with special needs.
But I'm also interviewed dozens of women now and other healthcare providers and just
interesting individuals who have something to add about this important relationship that
kids have with their dads.
But in most cases, it has to do with dads raising kids with special needs.
And so we're on the same page, John.
We're talking about autism, Down syndrome, cerebral palsy, rare disease, missing a limb, missing
limbs, deaf, blind.
There's no disability that's out of bounds.
And it's very profound, right, to see the amazing things that these families are doing.
I was laughing earlier at the part of your story where you were telling that somebody was
suggesting that you started a podcast and you heard something about listening to podcast
and reminded me my own experience.
I had absolutely no desire or interest in doing a podcast at all.
Really did not like to do it.
I loved listening to them and I listened to a lot of podcasts.
But yeah, just did not want to start one.
I've wipe brought it up and it was a very unusual thing for her to say.
I mean, it wasn't until I was driving by myself and I kind of let my thoughts wander on
that topic.
And I let my mind finally go to the idea that it was probably not specifically my wife,
but that God was trying to call me and was using my wife to do that.
And every hair on my body stood up and I started to shake and I felt like God was right there
looking at me and I realized, whoa, this is not, this is serious.
This is actually a calling.
This is not a joke.
And so I went into a prayer about it and I voiced my objections to God.
And you know, well, I figured, be honest with them.
It's not like he doesn't already know my thoughts anyways.
So I was very blunt with him about how I felt about it, but I told him, you know what?
I know who you are.
I shouldn't be here.
I've been broken and you gave me my family back.
You gave me back.
I mean, you restored me.
You did so much for me.
And now you're trying to become my friend and now you're asking me to do this.
So I'm not about to say no.
I'm just saying, I'm going to say yes because it's you and I know who you are.
But as far as me, this is very uncomfortable.
So I'll make a deal.
You open up the doors.
You take ownership of it.
You set the agenda.
You run things and I'll be your human grunt.
But I can tell you, you know, to this very day, it shares you and I are speaking.
He's kept his end of the deal, which tells me everything that I need and everybody else
needs to know about how he feels about fathers, how he feels about fatherless children,
and how much, just how much he loves each and every one of us.
Thank you for sharing.
Yeah.
So on the next question, I'm a dad of a son who is diagnosed with type one diabetes at age
three.
Do you know very many dads with that experience?
And how are they benefiting from being connected socially?
There are some dads in our network that have children with diabetes.
That's 100% for sure.
But admittedly, that's not the main focus as far as the number of interviews I've done.
To give you a sense, I've probably done 75 to 80 interviews on autism, 40 something
on Down syndrome, maybe as many unsurpassable palsy, maybe as many are more on rare disease
because there's like six or seven thousand different rare diseases.
And then there's a more limited number of disabilities that relate to physical disabilities
as opposed to intellectual disabilities.
So diabetes is real, right?
So life altering can be a life ending experience if not treated.
So I think we need to be super focused on addressing that.
And diabetes can be managed, right?
In some cases, rather successfully over a very long period of time.
Certainly, if it's gotten properly diagnosed and it's treated correctly.
So I don't want to differentiate between, well, what does it like to be a father or
the child with diabetes versus fill in the blank, right?
We have some common fears and concerns, right?
You know, how is this going to affect my child's ability, right, to learn or physically
develop?
What's their future going to be like?
What's my relationship with my child going to be like because of that?
So these are all common experiences and fears that we have.
And I think it's important to not say, oh, I only want to associate with other dads
who have children with diabetes, right?
That might be helpful at least initially because you have something in common.
But I think that when you take a step back, when you widen your aperture and you understand
that there's basic human concerns that we have, we found with the groups of dads that
we get together within the special father's network, but it's less diagnosis specific.
And it's more important to be in contact with like-minded dads, right?
Yes.
Yes.
You know, not all of us are wired the same way, right?
You know, some of us see our primary role as being the provider, a more traditional experience,
right?
You know, I'm going to work.
I'm going to provide for my family, you know, let my wife handle all things, medical,
all things educational.
And I'm not here to judge, right?
If that's what works for your family, God bless you.
But you know, I think more is expected of dads today than ever before, which is a good thing.
You want dads to lean in, being a dad doesn't mean one thing, but you know, we've broken
fatherhood into four different categories to help dads get, you know, a little bit more engaged,
be present, physically, emotionally, and spiritually in their kids' lives.
So obviously there's a financial commitment, right?
Dads are expected to be providers, but how do we be present physically, right?
Especially for non-custodial dads to be present physically is a challenge.
But third is to be present emotionally.
I'm not an emotional creature, right?
Nobody wants an emotional financial advisor.
I'm pretty sure of that.
That's what I do.
Right?
Nobody wants an emotional like air travel, you know, you know, you want somebody who's going
to be steady, right?
Somebody who's, you know, going to be able to focus and stay, you know, on task.
And you know, so it's difficult for me.
And I think a lot of other guys to express their emotions, be empathetic, be sympathetic
to others.
You know, you hear the phrase, hey, you know, why don't you just put your big boy pants
on or, you know, suck it up.
And I think that, you know, there's a place for that, but, you know, I don't think that,
you know, that's what our family needs, right?
I think we need to be a little bit more engaged, you know, from an emotional standpoint.
And then the fourth aspect of fathering quadrant that we talk about is being spiritually
present.
And who's the spiritual leader in your family?
Sometimes it's both parents, sometimes it's the mom, sometimes it's the dad, sometimes
it's nobody.
And, you know, maybe you didn't grow up in a spiritual home, but, you know, it's something
to think about, right?
So we have a self-assessment tool that we created for dads to get some immediate feedback
on their fathering and it addresses each of those four areas.
Towards the end, I would like to cover how are those, how dads listening in our audience
can access that tool.
And I wanted to go on to the next thing.
I was wanting to really get into paternal postpartum depression, but the interesting thing about
that is that takes me back to the time when I was sitting in the doctor's office and my
son was being diagnosed with type one diabetes.
And the thoughts I went through that started to spiral and they said it could also be leukemia
and I kept thinking, you know, well, I sure hope it's leukemia.
Well, that's easy because if it's leukemia, well, you just, it's simple.
You just get a bone marrow transplant and that's it.
That's over with and everything's good and life is normal.
And then waiting in the doctor coming back in and confirming it was type one and my heart
sinking, spiraling emotionally, feeling very, very much disconnected, feeling alone.
And the one thing that I was hurting for the most would have been something like what
you're offering now.
A network of dads that I could connect with that I could talk to, not specifically just
type one dads, but dads who were dealing with other things as well, some of them harder
than what I was about to deal with.
That really would have done a lot to, for my own mental health, helping me to be able
to move on and see life past what I was facing.
The next question I have is how can a special needs child impact the dynamics of a marriage
and how can dads be prepared to handle it?
That's a great question, thanks, John.
So you're focused on the marriage and something that I've tried to drill down on with each
of the interviews that I do very similarly is to ask what impact has the child with disability
had on his or her siblings, if there are siblings, your marriage and the extended family,
like grandparents, aunts and uncles, etc.
Because it has an impact on all three of those.
It's various, right?
It impacts different families differently.
So I'll start by answering your question, not about marriage, but about the siblings, right?
Birth order has something to do with it.
And the trap that parents need to try to avoid is that the child with the disability is
going to, by definition, require more time and resources, right?
than the other children, just because of their situation.
And you don't want to wake up a year, a decade or longer down the road with the aha that,
oh my gosh, I didn't give my other child or children the attention that they deserved, right?
Because I was so focused on the child with special needs.
So that's one thing to be aware of.
And there are great resources, sibling resources in the marketplace.
The second part is you asked about marriage.
If you started with a strong marriage, hopefully it just strengthens your marriage.
If you're in a weak situation before the diagnosis, it's almost anybody's bad as to where that's
going to go.
So it has the ability to strengthen, get mom and dad on the same page and working together,
you know, against the disability and overcoming the challenges.
And you know, some of the challenges exist that both parents aren't knowledgeable and accepting
of the diagnosis.
And I think the messages you need to give your partner grace, right?
When they're not at the same level that you are.
And that's not always saying the mom is ahead of the dad or the dad is always ahead of
the mom.
It just has an impact, right?
Because we're not all dealing with the challenge in the same way at the same time.
So that's the thought that comes to mind as it relates to the impact on marriage.
I've seen it go both ways and strengthen some minutes weaken them.
And the third part of the question, at least the way I framed it is, what impact has the
disability had on the extended family?
And depending on the disability and the family structure and how close they are proximity
geographically, it's a lot easier for families when there's extended family in the neighborhood,
right?
That they can help out, right?
They can take some of the burden off of mom and dad to be doing everything so that they
can, you know, have a little bit more balance in their lives.
But not everybody has family members close by geographically.
And it's often that parents would report, dads would report that, you know, grandma and
grandpa don't get it, right?
They don't understand, you know, the challenge because they didn't have a child with a similar
special need when they were parenting.
So it takes little grace there to say, you know, it is really hard for our extended family
to appreciate, you know, what the day to day is.
And, you know, hopefully they can be supportive and be involved, but if they can't or won't,
you know, just accept that they might not fully appreciate or understand, you know, what's
going on and just consider yourself fortunate that, you know, if you do have an extended family
and they can play a role that they're able to be involved.
We love stories on this program.
Please share some success stories of dads you've helped through the Special Fathers Network.
You know, like I said, with 300 plus episodes, many of the dads would say, doing an interview,
talking about their situation, shining some light on it has been cathartic, right?
Just getting, you know, open about it, right?
Transparent about it.
And, you know, we've always thought and taught that, you know, when you show vulnerability,
it's a weakness, right?
You don't want to show weaknesses, right?
So we tend to hold those things and hold them pretty close.
So that's the general benefit, I think, that goes along with it.
We have had some guys join our mastermind groups.
These are the weekly meetup groups.
We've been piloting these for the last three years on Wednesday nights, two years on Tuesday
nights.
Now we're setting a goal to recruit 100 new men into the mastermind group concept.
These are virtual meetings on a weekly basis, and then we have an annual weekend retreat
where we get all the dads together.
The retreats have been in Nashville, St. Louis, in Chicago.
We're trying to keep them in the Midwest to make it as easy as possible for people to get
to and from and travel the shortest distance on average.
And during these weekly meetings, we talk about wins.
We review books, six books a year, so about two months per book, and then we have Zoom calls
with the authors.
These are all people within the network, by the way.
We have not had to reach outside our network for interesting and meaningful books.
And then the most meaningful aspect of this is the dad in the middle.
We have two dads in the middle, about 15 minutes each per week.
And dad gets to share a challenge or something that is going on.
And it could have to do with the child with special needs, could have to do with his marriage,
could have to do with something going on at work, it could have to do with his own health.
Anything, right?
And it's private.
The guys all listen and then they chime in.
You know, what about this?
What about that?
So we're getting to know each other on a really deep level.
And then we end the meetings, these 75 minute meetings, with what are we looking forward
to?
So the point is, we want to start on a positive note.
What was the win?
Smaller, large from the past week?
Because if we wanted to, we could all play the hardship of the Olympics and try to out
to each other, right, about how hard things have been the past week.
That's not the form that we've created.
And so a couple of dads come to mind.
I'm not going to mention them by name, but if they were to listen to this podcast, they
would know who they are.
But oftentimes the dad is going to come in.
He's in a lot of pain, right?
He's not where he wants to be with his spouse.
He's not where he wants to be psychologically with his relationship with his child or children.
And it's really painful.
He might be in therapy already, maybe, maybe not.
And he's looking for whether he realizes or not an opportunity to just be authentic, be
himself, and be in a company with like-minded dads.
And we've had a number of these dads.
By the way, they pay $50 to $200 a month to be involved.
Let me put another number to that.
That's $600 a 24-hundred dollars a year to be involved in the mastermind group, right?
This is not one of these charity hand-out things.
They're investing their time.
And as importantly, they've got some skin of the game financially.
That's why we have such a high attendance.
And many of them would say that they saved their marriage, right?
It saved their lives in some situations, like they were suicidal about their situation.
And what a reassuring experience that is when these dads share their testimony to one
another and that these were treats that we have.
So those are a couple of thoughts that come to mind.
If there's a stepdad or possible stepdad entering the life of a special needs child, what
should he expect and how should he prepare?
So we do have quite a few stepdads just by definition, a man who is married to a woman who
has a child or children with special needs.
So he's come in with both eyes open, right?
He's sort of being intentional about accepting the responsibility that goes along with being
a father.
And most of them would say, you know, we don't differentiate between our stepkids and our
biological kids to be a father to a young boy or a young girl, you know, with a disability.
So the advantage that that father has is that, you know, he's not taken by surprise, not
blindsided.
Most parents, John, don't ask for children with special needs, right?
Most of our dads would say, almost to a person, I would not have asked for a child with special
needs.
But many of them, I don't know if it's a majority, but certainly a plurality of our dads with
a decade or decades of experience will tell you, I would not have asked for a child with special
needs, but knowing everything I know today, I wouldn't change anything, right?
I'm the person I am today, our family is strong.
We have great friends, it's strengthened, you know, relationships all the way around.
They didn't say it was easy.
Some of them have a lot of hardship.
In some cases, one or more of their children dies, right?
I've done at least two dozen interviews of dads that have lost a child, either from the
time of birth as a newborn, as a toddler, as a teenager, or somebody in their 20s or 30s
for that matter.
You know, a lot of these kids are medically fragile, especially the ones with rare disease.
You know, their life expectancy can be quite short.
But I think that the advantage that the dads have, the stepfather, specifically, like you
were asking about is that they're coming in with both eyes open, right?
And, you know, I really, really admire those dads.
Similarly, to dads that are adopting kids with special needs, right?
These are amazing human beings.
As long as we're talking about this, one of the things that I've witnessed, John, is
that the parents, moms and dads who are raising kids with special needs, on average, are
more humble, less arrogant, and less selfish than the general population.
And the world need more humble, less arrogant, and less selfish people.
I am absolutely.
Absolutely.
Statement, but you could read between the lines.
Well, David, how can dads connect with you?
Listen to your podcast or learn more about special fathers network.
The easiest thing to do is go to the website, 21st century dads.org.
They can send me an email at David@21stcenturydads.org.
And the podcast is on all the popular podcast platforms.
It's known as the SFN Dad to Dad podcast.
You know, if you see it, it looks a little bit like a Superman logo.
You know, I would love to connect with any of your dads, whether they have a child with
special needs, a family member with special needs or disability, or they just have questions,
right?
Because they're compassionate about this.
And just to make things easier to, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the
fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
And I will have the links that David just mentioned posted there.
One thing I always enjoy about these times is learning things.
And I definitely learned something from you, many things from you today, actually.
And I know our audience did too.
So thank you so much for being on the program.
Well, Jonathan, thank you for the opportunity.
Let's give a special shout out to our mutual friend, Reno Friedman Watts.
Yes.
That's a very podcast host from introducing us.
Thank you, Reno.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in
this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Competitive sports, extracurricular activities and programs for kids are popular in schools and homes. Parents invest a lot of time and money in getting their kids to practice and games or performance events. But is there a danger to all of this that can damage or destroy family relationships?
My guest is National Chess Master and owner of Premier Chess who manages programs for students of all ages and levels, Evan Rabin.
If you would like to connect with Evan Rabin or learn more about the educational programs at Premier Chess, visit: https://premierchess.com/
Email: evan@premierchess.com
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Dads Competitive Sports and God
Competitive sports and extracurricular activities and programs for kids are popular in schools and homes.
Parents invest a lot of time and money in getting their kids to practice in games or performance events.
But is there a danger to all of this that can damage or destroy family relationships?
Find out in just a moment.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is National Chess Master and owner of Premier Chess, who manages programs for students of all ages and levels.
Evan Rabin.
Evan, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Yeah, thank you so much for being here. It's my pleasure.
Evan, I am curious, what is your favorite dad joke?
Why didn't the chicken cross the road?
Oh, I know I've never heard this one before.
What was the answer?
Because he was chicken.
I love that one.
Yeah, it's a good one.
Well, Evan, let's start with your story behind how you became a National Chess Master
and now you're running student programs. How did this happen?
It's a good, very good question.
So I first started playing chess when I was very young.
I was seven years old.
My brother and my dad taught me how to move the pieces.
And I quickly started playing the program at my school, the Churchill School.
And I pretty much started playing very actively since then.
I actually played the Nationals two months after I learned how to move the pieces,
basically, and just kept going with it when I was 20.
I made National Master.
And when I was 12, I actually started teaching chess off off and on.
And seven years ago now in 2017, I started Premier Chess.
And now we have 65 coaches.
We run programs in 80 schools, a bunch of companies like Google and City Group.
And we also do a lot of camps, tournaments, private lessons, etc.
All over the country.
That's amazing.
What was your goal behind starting Premier Chess?
Pretty much the biggest thing was to follow my passion.
Before that, I did enterprise sales at Oracle and Rapid Seven.
It was fun. I enjoyed it.
I made pretty good money doing it.
But at the end of the day, I didn't really to CIOs that much.
And I felt kind of bad in the way, almost, that I would just...
Well, they felt bad, but it's just probably like I was, you know, thinking a little bit, almost.
Where, you know, I was selling something that I didn't really know about.
You know, until this day, I don't really know exactly what an engineered system is.
But, you know, that's what I was selling at the time.
And basically, I said, you know, why don't I sell my true passion of Chess?
So, that's what I'm doing.
And, you know, it's just a lot more relatable.
And, you know, I'm an expert in the field.
So, it's great to do what I love and sell what I love.
Is it ever more than just being about Chess?
Is there something else besides the game that you are offering?
Absolutely.
So, when we're teaching Chess, we're also teaching business and life lessons through the game.
So, very often, actually, I'll meet people networking and they'll say,
"Great to meet you. You know, we'll definitely keep you in mind."
You know, here, Chess players looking for, you know, a coach.
But, I always say that our target market is actually not Chess players.
You know, for the most part, people who are more serious about Chess, you know,
they actually have the coaching that they need or want.
But, really, we're more interested actually talking to the schools and companies,
other organizations that want to learn things like
critical thinking, healthy competition at the law firm.
We teach about judgment training, you know, on the one hand, you know.
Wow.
Law in and out, you know, basically, but when you're on trial or a deadline,
you need to take everything you know and put it into basically a few minutes of work sometimes.
And it's the same thing in Chess, of course.
I tell students all the time, even if it's an opening or a middle game or an end game,
that you've looked at a billion times in theory, you still need to make sure you're spending time at the board
and making sure that you're, you know, doing things correctly.
So sometimes I'll teach you an opening, for instance, and then I'll say, "Oh, let's review it."
But then I'll purposely make a slightly different move, sort of secretly.
And they'll just kind of blindly play the move I taught.
And I say, "But didn't you realize that I actually did something a little different?"
And I'm like, "Oh, no, because they were just so rushing to play, you know, exactly what I taught them."
And I was really just testing to see like, "Oh, are you actually going to think on your feet
and realize that I did something slightly different?"
Or you're just going to go through the motions.
So critical thinking skills are a huge part of what you're teaching.
It's beyond just the game itself, but you're teaching kids and maybe even adults to actually think for themselves in life.
Absolutely.
What are the benefits of dads getting their kids involved in competitive sports or the arts?
The biggest thing is just being able to get yourself out there, get yourself exposed.
And it's also, of course, very important for college and career.
I've been able to build such a great community and chess that has helped not just in my business, but also before.
When I was in college, for instance, one of my good friends called Adyemi, helped tutor me finance and whatnot,
and also helped me in my career search quite a bit.
Many other chess friends have helped, and now I'm given back all the time through other people and thinking forward.
So yeah, it's community, but then it's also just self-self-growth.
And that's why I do actually tell students all the time that if it's a chess, stick to chess, if it's basketball, fine, stick to basketball.
Develop one or two extra career killers that you're really into and be able to grow with those.
I think people do sometimes try to get into too many different things, actually, and it kind of hurts them overall.
I see this all the time where they spread their kids too thin.
The kids are involved in programs outside of school. They're involved in sometimes more than one athletic program within school.
They have their academics to be concerned about, and they don't do very well.
They are actually some of the slowest performing students, because they can't really concentrate and do anything well.
And their parents are just, they have their kids way, way too busy for their age that they really can't even be a kid.
They can't be a kid, but then also they don't practice, right?
I've actually, for instance, I'm in a lot of parent groups on Facebook all over the country.
And, you know, I'm relatively often actually, I'll see someone say, "Oh, do you know any piano teachers that have their own instruments?"
You know, as if they don't want to bite, right? And I'm right away thinking, "What about that's ridiculous? How are they going to learn piano or any other instrument if they don't want to have an instrument at home?"
You know, I think they're in practice throughout the week.
And in a similar vein, right? I always tell students, right? Even if they take private lessons with us, they're in a school program with us once or twice a week.
Right? Make sure that our next lesson is not the next time that you're playing or learning chess, right? And you still need to be pretty consistent throughout the week.
Absolutely. I love this. The other thing that makes me wonder, sometimes if the parents have these kids so busy to compensate for something else, maybe they really are uncomfortable just spending that one in one time bonding with their own children.
And so they're using something else to keep them from actually having to build that connection in a meaningful way.
Absolutely.
What are the advantages to putting your kids in either athletics or an art? So is there an advantage to your kid being in the arts versus being an athletics or one of the other or is there no advantage at all?
Honestly, really, I think just depends on the kid. If they're more athletic, all the power to them. I have a nine-month-old daughter now. So we're not, you know, yet thinking about extra curriculars too much, of course.
One thing I definitely plan on is getting her exposed to everything. And then wherever she wants to go with them, that's where she wants to come.
So it's more of athletic route, playing volleyball, basketball, whatever it is.
No, great. No, no. I was actually just listening on a different dad podcast the other day.
That's one of the biggest things that you should actually do is, ever early on, give them decision-making abilities.
Oh, wow.
I'm not like when they go to college, that's the first time they're like, wow, what a major, et cetera. They should be trying to figure out many different choices from simple things like what's for dinner tonight? Have them have a say in it?
I had a fascinating guest on, and actually two guests that talked on this topic of what you can do with things you can do with a baby.
And it turns out that intellectual development or brain development and athletics, so to speak, in a newborn or a baby, are very, very much linked together.
In other words, developing core strength and developing eye coordination, eye movement, just brain development, they're linked together through play, through actual physical play with your baby.
So what are your thoughts on that? And in your own experience, you're a new dad. Have you ever seen play really help with your child's development?
Absolutely. Actually, in the beginning, my grandmother actually was yelling at us for not having her have enough toys. I grew up in the college of 94 and very healthy and very good, but she also very much will always say her opinion.
Which I'm actually incredibly grateful for, of course. But, we weren't spending enough energy making sure that she had toys and whatnot.
And yeah, I really do think that it's incredibly important to constantly get her developing. It's under, you know, under control, of course.
Yeah, so it's fascinating. It's beyond just school programs later in life. This development starts very, very early, even from when they are a baby. And this isn't something you want to just hand off to somebody else as a parent.
This is something you're going to want to roll up your sleeves and get involved with early because that's how you begin and maintain that bonding process that can really help you later on down the road when they become a teenager.
And let's shift back to chess a little bit. What are kids learning from your chess program besides the game and how does that give them a personal advantage in life?
So there's several factors, of course. So, you know, making sure that you're looking ahead, you're realizing that, you know, time is valuable.
And also just making you think about different options. So I myself, by the way, actually had a learning disability growing up. I went to a school called Churchill in New York when I was, you know, very young.
And to you know, if I was upset, you know, unfortunately, I was likely to, you know, yell at another kid or hit another case even, you know, in some cases.
But I really do think chess, you know, actually helped me in some ways and made me realize that there are different options, you know, out there.
And, you know, I could tell the teacher I could ignore it. I could, you know, tell another student and something was, you know, disturbing me.
And, yeah, there were a lot of other options out there. And that's why I do tell students, you know, every time you make a move, make sure you're at least considering two or three alternatives.
And you should never, yeah, typically make the first move that you see necessarily, right? You can make that move eventually. But if you are, make sure you're at least considering some alternatives.
Now let's look at the flip side of the topic. What are some negative effects of competitive athletic or arts programs? In what ways can it be harmful to or damaging family relationships or even health?
Anything could definitely, if it's not in moderation, be actually harmful. I personally, you know, see a lot of chess parents that could be a little bit too crazy about their kids and results.
You know, one thing I always actually talk about is how, like when we run our tournaments, the kids relatively easy to deal with the parents. Most of them are absolutely great.
But some of them could be a little bit difficult. You know, they don't leave the room when we tell them to leave the room.
Because they're some like helicopter parents. In one case, one of the top grandmasters in the country. I won't mention his name, but in the past, when we were both in high school,
we had to take the tournaments and literally, in some cases, I heard the dad like publicly yell at him, you know, that he would lose a game. You know, this and that.
It wasn't good for him at all. And obviously, yeah, did not go over well. I think maybe even got to a point where he was welcome at the club and not his like father.
Yeah, just just like, you know, pretty, pretty crazy at the time. So I think that the short of it is that, yes, you do want to get a little bit of all with with with your kids.
You know, but you should step to the side a little bit as well.
You know, I also have seen many cases, you know, kid, not really wanting to, you know, listen to the teacher much.
You know, because the parent is right there in the parent. And I, you know, I've in a couple cases that we did actually a snow day virtual camp a couple weeks ago.
It was one younger girl, you know, who's like five signed up for the camp. And, you know, she was a little upset and the mom was kind of there, you know, supporting her.
And I actually privately messaged her in the chat with, with all due respect.
And I said, you should, you know, go do your thing, you know, work for the day, whatever. You know, and she's like, Oh, I don't really know she, she maybe I should get a refund because my kid is young most of the other kids are older.
And I said, just trust me, just literally leave five minutes and into what happens and then throughout the day, the girl was more than fine, you know, loved it.
All it was was, you know, if she was a sand holding a little bit too much.
I love the story that you brought out about the dad yelling because I see so many times where parents will live their own lives, either their successes or they will live their failures vicariously through their kids.
Instead of their kids letting, letting their kids have their own experience, they burden their kids and they put their own experiences or missed experiences and put that burden on their kids.
And they may not even be aware that they're doing it, but it's really damaging. And that's one area where I see that can be really damaging to, to that relationship, putting undue unnecessary pressure on a child.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's crucial, you know, to think about.
Do you ever see those conflicts and goals between a student and a parent or a dad?
I haven't so much, you know, I would say that, you know, pour them into something we, you know, strongly encourage, of course, to, you know, all students.
Actually, I was actually at a recital a couple of years ago, one of my good friends, Mike Papapalu owned a company guitar guy go over, they do piano and guitar lessons and other instruments as well.
And actually a couple of years ago, he partnered with this guy, Scott, something or other.
And one thing Scott actually said that I really actually appreciated was you guys are going to learn more in this recital.
Then you have in the last, you know, seven months, you know, learn, learn.
And I really do think that that made a lot of sense, you know, I think, you know, what was the point of learning an instrument for six months if you're not going to like perform at all.
And it's definitely similar in chess and in tournaments.
You could take lessons every week for a long time, but you're not really going to get better until you're like starting to play some tournaments here and there.
It's about conquering a fear that the otherwise would not have had the courage to conquer if they really didn't have that structure in those lessons to really hold them accountable.
It's a lot of fun to really teach different tricks and tips to help them overcome their anxiety and help them to focus.
So in chess, are there ever strategies that you teach that really helped to hone in and develop focus and concentration?
Yeah, so definitely a fair amount. I mean, obviously that is huge. And I always tell students that you do need to study a lot of jazz.
Of course, if you want to get better, but you also have to learn how to focus at the board, which honestly, even myself, you know, compared to other masters in particular.
I just struggled with focusing. You know, I just, I'm actually reading now book about the Kasparov Carpov match in 1985.
And Kasparov talked a couple times about how he and Carpov, you know, it's been 30, 40 minutes on one move.
So it's probably, in some cases, a little bit too much, but you know, it just goes to study that he focuses very, very, very key.
And a lot of players, including myself, you know, will fall into the trap, but wow, this move is so obvious.
And you make it instantly. And right after you play, you're like, wow, I should have considered these two things.
Or, you know what, even worse, I missed this very easy win for him. I usually should have seen, but I did.
And the only reason you missed it is you move too quickly. And very often too, you know, students will miss simple tactics, which are, you know, for those that don't know, basically a small series of moves too.
Basically, usually one material, in some cases, checkmate. And, you know, they'll miss it, simply because they weren't looking for it.
So yesterday I was actually looking at a game with the student. It was a very short game actually from Larry Christianson, who's the several time US champion.
We still actually played together in the Boston team of the US Chessley.
And he actually meet on a car path with currently World Champion in 13 move in car pod miss something relatively very, I mean, not even relatively, you know, very simple.
But it simply was because he wasn't looking for, you know, tactics.
And yeah, I teach that game all the time now to the students just to show that, you know, even like a lead World champion, you know, he's putting his guard down and not focusing.
And then, you know, you could lose the game in 13 moves, which is like almost unheard of.
This question, this next question is a question that has taken a lot of discipline for me not to ask this question in the very beginning because I honestly don't know the answer to this question.
And it's been burning on my mind. So I've saved it for last.
You've talked about a connection between chess and understanding God. And I'm really curious to know what that connection is.
So there's definitely I think several different answers to this question. I've actually had several rabbis on my own podcast.
Actually just last night we published an episode with two rabbis who are actually both rabbis.
Obviously, but also physics experts. They actually have their own podcast physics to God.
Oh, wow, super, super interesting. The king is the only piece in chess that does not get captured.
So a lot of beginners, but they actually have a very common mistake that you win a game by capturing your opponent's king, but no, that doesn't happen in chess.
So the king is not being captured and God is always there. Wherever you are, a big believer in that.
Sometimes we don't know the answer. Why? Yeah, it does. But once certain things, but there's always a reason for that.
And I'm a big believer of that. Very, very powerful. Evan, how can dads listening connect with you or learn more about your chess programs?
Yeah, thank you so much. For one, I'm really grateful for this appearance. I do also want to give a quick shout out to our mutual friend, Rina of the better called Daddy Show for introducing us.
She's just an absolute great connector. And yeah, thank you so much to her as well.
But yeah, if anyone does want to reach out, learn more about chess. We do work with a lot of schools, companies, individuals.
Whether or not you're looking to go and pay for lessons, we definitely love to be a resource, a network or a connector, many other things as well.
Yeah, you could definitely email me at evan@premierchess.com, or website, premierchess.com. And we'd love to be in touch.
And just to make things easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I will have all of the links that Evan just mentioned posted there for your convenience as well.
Evan, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
Just being able to kind of live in the moment, be present. I now have, as I said before, a nine-month-old daughter, Maya.
And frankly, in the last nine months, I've been somewhat behind on my business and whatnot.
And I pulled that to my wife a couple times and some other people as well. And at times, actually, somewhat regretted that.
We didn't have a babysitter earlier. We actually got one a couple of weeks ago. But at the end of the day, I have no regrets at all.
I guess I am somewhat flexible as an entrepreneur. And I've been able to kind of juggle, take care of the baby and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, running the business.
But, yeah, I just want to say that, you know, don't have any regrets. And along with that, you know, it's very easy to make mistakes.
Of course, you know, especially your first time, you know, parents' things still are all the time, obviously. And, you know, just rolled punches. It's okay. You know, every guy that makes mistakes.
That's absolutely true. Well, Evan, I have learned so much from you, so I definitely know dads listening have as well.
Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge. I really appreciate it.
Thank you so much, my sincere pleasure.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge, please visit TheFatherhoodChallenge.com. That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
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Are you a dad with a teen or tween and you are feeling overwhelmed and out of your league on how to parent and connect with them? Do you feel like you can’t relate to their world but wish you had a relationship where they trusted you with everything? I’ve brought a guest on the program who can help you parent your teen or tween with confidence and build a strong connection with them.
My guest is certified professional teen life coach Kevin Baker. Kevin’s specialty is empowering teens and tweens to build self esteem, boost confidence and overcome limiting beliefs to be the best version of themselves.
If you would like to connect with Kevin Baker or receive coaching you can find him at: https://lifecoachkevin.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lifecoachkevin/
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Hacks to Parenting Teens and Tweens
Are you a dad with a teen or a tween and you're feeling overwhelmed and out of your league
on how to parent and connect with them?
Do you feel like you can't relate to their world but wish you had a relationship where
they trusted you with everything?
I brought a guest on the program who can help you parent your teen or tween with confidence
and build a strong connection with them.
He will join us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Certified Professional Teen, Life Coach, Kevin Baker.
Kevin's specialty is empowering teens and tweens to build self-esteem, boost confidence
and overcome limiting beliefs to be the best version of themselves.
Kevin, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Oh yeah, thank you.
Thank you, Jonathan.
Happy to be here.
We're going to start out with my favorite question.
Kevin, what is your favorite dad joke?
Why did the coffee fall a police report?
Why did the coffee mug file a police report?
Because I don't know.
Because he got mugged.
I absolutely love that joke.
Well, thank you.
My kids love to roll their eyes at all of them.
As long as the dads are chuckling, then I've done my job.
Yeah, it qualifies then.
It definitely qualifies.
Well, Kevin, let's get into your story.
What is the story behind what led you to coach teens and tweens?
You know, I guess looking way back on it, you know, it all started when my wife and I decided
to have children.
That started my journey on parenthood and being a father and learning all sorts of things
about childhood development, medical issues, mental health issues, school issues, social issues,
you know, everything that gets thrown at you as a parent.
And you know, fast forward about 14 years later, 13 years later, I found myself, I was
with a lot of time on my hands.
And I had to do some soul searching and figure out how is I going to have the greatest positive
impact on as many people as possible with the time that I have here on earth.
And through a lot of soul searching and reading and having conversations and being coached
myself, I came up with life coaching and specifically for teens and tweens because I'm in the
thick of it.
So you know, it helps my personal growth.
It allows me to have meaningful purpose.
I develop all sorts of fantastic relationships with all sorts of fantastic people and that's
what drives me.
Making a difference, you know, that moment when you're having a conversation with a kiddo
and you know, the light bulb goes off and they get it and you're able to change what was
a roadblock or an invisible barrier when you're able to get rid of that so they can move on
to be the best version of themselves.
That's really the story of why.
That's my why.
And I'm here to get the message out that life coaching is not just for adults and kiddos
need positive mentors and role models and positive influence and they need people to ask those
thought provoking questions that help pull the answers out of their subconscious because
the kiddos they have the answers, they need the guidance and the friendly input in order
to help get those answers out so they can fulfill their life's purpose.
And you said on that calling, did it really ever dawn on you that what you are really doing
is leaving a legacy behind with many teens?
It did.
It did and that was part of my checklist.
I have a whole career checklist that I used to get here and leaving a legacy was a big
part of it.
I want to have my positive impact that I can make on just one kiddo.
Have that reverberate throughout the world long after I'm gone because it's like the
old story goes you hold door open for someone going into a building in the morning and before
you know they are holding the door open for somebody else.
It's the power of positivity helping encourage that mindset that'll leave that legacy behind.
I've heard it said of dads that they can either do the hard work early or they can do the
hard work later.
If they do the work and they bond with their child at infancy the teen years are easier.
Is that actually true?
Easier than what?
You know I think the entire experience of fatherhood is hard work.
You know it's really hard.
It's very important to bond with your child while they're in infant having that you know
chest to chest time.
You know let them feel your heart beating.
Let them breathe with you in rhythm.
And it's important for you to play catch with them in the backyard.
You know when they're growing up and you know it never gets easier.
It's just the challenges get different.
The challenges change.
And as long as you're present, empathetic and guide your children to make the best possible
choices that they can in life.
You know I think that's what it's all about and if you can foster the importance of choices
and the consequences of those choices so that they're aware of them every step of the
way.
Yeah it might get easier as you go but I don't know if there's a tradeoff for infancy
versus the teenage years in particular.
So it sounds like really what you're saying is what's required is full engagement from
infancy, all the way into the handoff to adulthood.
And even then there's still going to be engagement in the adult years as well that there's
never really a moment or a time in the development phases where you really let off the gas.
I do let off the gas in the sense that I like the kids to go on their own adventures.
I like them to discover who they are on their own and make choices and decisions according
to that knowing that they're going to have consequences from the choices.
I never stop giving them an opportunity to do that.
I like to put them in different situations all the time.
Whether it be engaging in different social arenas or engaging in different activities, sporting
activities, family trips, traveling, even giving them a freedom to head into the market.
And here's the money, that's your budget, here's what we need.
Come on out when you're ready.
When you're done.
And bring the change.
But those sorts of things, those sorts of things really empower them.
And they give them a sense of freedom, it builds confidence and self-esteem.
So father's job is never really done.
Talk to that dad who thinks or knows that he's made mistakes with his child or his children
and he feels disconnected from them and doesn't know where to begin repairing things.
That one hits close to home a little bit.
And the thing that I have to say is it's never too late to be the best you can be.
And it's never too late to be empathetic, to be a really, really good listener and to bond,
and to try and discover who your child is on the inside and what drives them and what
emotions they're feeling and what thoughts they're having and how their thoughts affect
their emotions and how their emotions affect their behaviors and how their behaviors affect
their actions.
And to really find out who they are as a whole person, it's never too late to get involved
and to let them know that you're ready.
But if there's their dads out there that feel like they have made mistakes, we're all human
and we all make mistakes.
The only way I know how to be a parent is from how my parents parented me and the only
way they knew how to be parents is because they learned from their parents.
And that goes on for generations.
So we all make mistakes, but it's what we do to repair them, to make amends, get rid
of the baggage from the past and not even worry about the future that much but to be present
and engage and smile and have fun and give the kiddos the dad and the childhood that
they deserve.
I think that breathes so much hope into a dad that's in that scenario where for whatever
reason he missed out or he wasn't there, wasn't present and he feels like now he needs to
make it up and he's trying to to establish that bond later.
The other thing I find really interesting is I'll use my wife for example, she's middle
age.
Both of her parents are still very, very much involved in her life and that that echoes
what you said earlier and that is that you never stop being a parent.
Maybe the way you do it changes slightly but that never stops.
So as long as your kids are alive, it's never too late.
Never too late.
Never too late and parents have different roles all throughout their lives.
So I've three children and my oldest, I was a certain version of myself.
When she was born and three years later, you know, guess what?
When we had our son, our second child, I had changed again and by the third child, I was
an entirely different person.
So each child has different versions of their parents and parents change over time too
and we all know that the kiddos grow up and they change.
There's always a place for parenting, whether or not the relationship is at a place where
they want to accept advice or not, that's another thing.
But I think there's always a role for a parent in a child's life in vice versa.
We love stories.
Please share some of your best and insightful experiences helping teens that you've worked
with.
And one of the favorite experiences working with a kid out was he had come to me, actually
his mother had come to me and said, you know, he is very depressed.
He won't get out of bed in the morning.
He doesn't like to go to school.
He doesn't think he has a future.
I don't know what to do.
He's having suicidal thoughts.
We've been in therapy for years and we're stuck.
Coach Kevin can you help us?
You know, I really, I felt that.
That got me emotional.
You know, and I said, yeah, I sure will.
Within two weeks, this kiddo, we were able to really, really dig deep and build awareness
around some of the negative, limiting thoughts and beliefs that he had that were automatically
coming to, coming as soon as he would open his eyes in the morning.
They would start.
And we, we practiced techniques.
We had some heart to heart.
We did the exercises long story short.
I talked to him last week.
I think before his family left for Safari in Africa and he was ready to apply to colleges.
And he's so excited about his future.
It was a transformation that, you know, it happened so quickly and I'm so proud of it for
doing the hard work.
And when you get a client, when you get a student, when you get a kiddo, that is as invested
as you are in helping and making things better.
Can you see that kind of progress?
You know, it can't help but make you feel great.
Do you see any difference between the teens that you've helped, the ones that have fathers
and their lives and the ones that don't?
What difference is if any do you see?
I don't know exactly the level of participation that the fathers have had in their lives, but
I can tell you that the fathers that with no uncertainty have participated to the best
of their ability.
The kiddo holds them, you know, with a certain level of respect.
I think that is the main difference is that when the father is involved and he's an active
participant and he's, you know, helps to guide their kiddo, you know, that young adult
will always somewhere in the back of their mind.
Here are their father's voice, along with their own internal narrative.
And I think that's the main difference is that, you know, the fathers have, you know, instilled
these, you know, I call them little golden nuggets, you know, information and guidance and
tricks, you know, that they practice.
Probably that, you know, a lot of their fathers handed down to them.
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
Here's another way and a lot of times when we talk about an absent father, we, for some reason
we automatically associate that with a physical absence.
And yes, that is most definitely an absence, a form of absence, but there's also an emotional
absence.
Yeah.
That can have just as damaging of an effect on, on a teen.
So is there anything that can be done in a situation like that to try to mitigate some
of that damage and repair the relationship and bring it to health?
The most important thing, an absent, you know, an absent father, you know, maybe it's an
emotionally absent father can do one of the most important things they can do to bring
it back and try and repair that is to, is to really try to envision what life looks like
from that through their eyes and try to imagine the feelings they're feeling, the thoughts
they're having, what their expectations are.
And then really talk to them about that and say, you know, I can tell, I know that you're
feeling anxious or I know you're overwhelmed, you know, with all the schoolwork you have
or I can tell you feel, you know, betrayed or overwhelmed, you know, whatever the feeling
is that they're having, try to try to really empathize with them and view things from their
perspective because really connection is all about emotional, and it's about understanding
the feelings and emotions that the child is feeling so that you can empathize with that
because if they see that, if they understand that, okay, now we're on the same page, you
can see it from my perspective.
I think that'll go a long way in earning the respect to repair any damage that's been
done from being emotionally unavailable in the past.
I think that's a huge gold nugget just to try to summarize it and make sure we understand
correctly, you're placing a huge value on communicating their feelings, not projecting
your own, but listening, spending a lot of time listening to their feelings and then verbally
acknowledging their feelings so that they can verify within themselves that you, you understand
you're picking up on it and you can relate to their feelings that you're actually trying
to put yourself into their shoes and understand life and their world from their lens and
that alone can go a long way in creating that bond, especially if that bond has been missing,
you can repair the damage that way that I understand it correctly.
Yeah, you hit the nail in the head, 100%, you know, dad gets me, you know, that's where we
want to, you know, bring the relationship to, you know, dad gets me, he understands.
He knows what I'm going through, he knows my feelings, he knows, he knows, you know, what
trigger those feelings and, you know, now we can work together to take next steps in life
and fostering open communication about emotions is huge.
You know, that, that, I think, is the holy grail of fatherhood.
You know, if you can, if you can be on the same page emotionally with your kids and understand
the feelings, their feeling and why they're feeling them and help them to process those
emotions and regulate them, you know, that's what parents know about as a father to the
adult.
One of the things I'm learning from my own journey, my own experience is that there is
a high value when I also communicate my own positive feelings towards my sons when I
acknowledge what they've done accomplishments.
And I think what's, what I've learned is just as important is when I acknowledge their
value and I disconnect their value from their accomplishments.
In other words, you're not valuable because I decided that you're valuable, you're valuable
because you're created.
You have your own value and, and there's nothing I can do to add or, or detract from that
value, it is who you are.
And so I am here just enjoying that, appreciating that and, and you need to know that, you need to
be aware of your value.
And there is nothing that you can do to change that value, to make it grow or to make it
less.
You are valuable the way you are.
And, and I've learned that when I do that boy, that also goes a long ways in towards that
bond.
Oh, yeah, what a, what a positive way to approach that.
I love that.
You know, I just, you know, their existence, you know, their existence is valued.
You know, they are a part of you and a very big important part of you.
You know, there's nothing that that could happen that anybody could do or say.
That's going to make you value them less sort or love them less.
There was a guest, the former guest that came on here, and it was Dr. Canfield, and she
talked about eye contact and how important eye contact is.
So I've learned that, and I'm curious what you think of the importance of asking questions,
and making eye contact when you're asking those questions, like just questions about
what's going on in their world and mixing that with eye contact.
Oh, eye contact is one of the most important forms of communication.
And you can read so much from it.
So when you're having that conversation, when you're asking a question to your, to your
child, you know, you see what happens with their eyes.
Do they go, do they go to the right?
Do they go to the left?
Do they go up?
Do they go down?
You know, do you know, are they, are they trying to, you can tell, you know, are they trying
to remember something or are they trying to fabricate something or, you know, what exactly
is, is going on and you can read a lot into their body language from how they respond
with their eyes.
But you, intently looking into their eyes gives them a sense that you're engaged and you're
present and you are not only interested in your question, but interested in their answer.
And that helps them to feel valued, helps them to feel empowered.
Like I said, it's one of the most important aspects of how we communicate.
What are some of your favorite bonding rituals with your teens?
Hmm, you know, my favorite bonding ritual with my kiddos, uh, two, one is skiing.
We'd love to go skiing as a family.
It's one of those things we look forward to every winter and it's priceless.
You know, my wife and I say that the family that skis together stays together and we're,
we like to practice that.
And I love that.
And you know, the other bonding ritual is, you know, it's a little bit unorthodox, I'd say,
or maybe not.
But we like to play video games together.
Yeah, I think it's really important for, you know, me to see what they like to do,
and for me to get into their world a little bit.
And so when we have an opportunity, you know, to all five of us, you know, get on a, a
co-op game together, you know, work together as a team, or, you know, play hide and seek, you
know, that sort of engagement in the digital world sort of lets them know that, you know, dad's
fun, you know, dad can hang.
And, you know, I think that goes a lot way, a, a, a long way in, in helping build bonds.
I really love that.
One of the things that I've learned is how valuable having a family hobby can be, things
that you all enjoy that you can just have fun doing.
Uh, in our case, one of our family hobbies is remote control cars.
Everyone has, has their own car that they like.
And when we go on vacations, but it's not just vacations.
I mean, if the weather is really, really nice, we'll just go right outside in the yard.
And, uh, we just have lots of, uh, we'll trade cars and, and switch vehicles.
Yeah, it, and it's fun.
It gets really interesting looks from other families, they'll walk by and they'll see us
having a good time and it's, it's making an impression on them as well.
So, yeah, I would, I would definitely say, don't underestimate the, the value of what a
family hobby can do for, for bringing that closeness together as a family, that joy
that you need.
Yeah, it's, I would say it's, it's up there with, uh, sitting down at the dinner table every
night.
Yeah.
And then that reminds me of that.
Are there any really good, dinner time rituals that can also help with, with bringing
that closeness?
So, one thing, you know, we try to incorporate to really foster positivity is to, is to ask
our, our kiddos to, uh, you know, give a compliment to one of their siblings or to us.
Oh, wow.
And, uh, you can feel the positivity and you can feel the love and you can feel that, you
know, we all, we all care about each other.
I mean, and the, and the other thing we can do is, you know, say, hey, you know, what, what
can we do better?
You know, this is a judgment-free zone.
We all live together.
We all want to live together half-lead and peacefully.
You know, what's one thing that I can improve on and grab that feedback.
You know, and take that in and, and work on it, you know, because it's important.
So, you know, it can bring a whole lot of information to light, something we can work on and it's
important to always be developing that trust and foster that ability to have open communication
within the family.
And the dinner table is the best place to do it for us.
My dad was in and out of my life, but, uh, one of the pleasant memories I have of him was,
was a dinner time ritual that he started and, uh, everybody was around the table and,
uh, and he, he pounded this fist on the table and he had a very stern look on his face and
everybody looked at him and wondered, uh, oh, you know, what's going on here?
And he looked at everybody and he said, I have one rule at the table and the rule is very
simple.
He said, there is to be no talking at the table doing meal times.
And then he smirked and he said, unless you either have a joke or a story.
And then he smiled and he said, I'll start and he just, and he just went off on a story
and then when he was done, somebody else had to jump in with theirs.
And let me tell you that was probably one of the most fun meal times I remember.
Oh, that's perfect.
They probably kept it so positive too.
It did.
That's great.
That's great.
I love that you have that memory.
So Kevin, how can dads connect with you or learn more about what you're doing or get
help with their teen or tween?
Sure.
Yeah.
My, uh, the website is lifecoachkeven.com.
Uh, you can also see me on Instagram at lifecoachkeven.
Uh, you can schedule a call.
We can get it on the phone and talk about what you're seeing with your kid up and talk about
what kind of results you'd like to get.
All right.
And just to make it easy, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I will have all
the links that Kevin just mentioned.
I'll have him posted there for your convenience.
Kevin, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
My challenge to dads listening now.
The next time you are about to have a situation with your child and they've said something to
you that you don't like when you're trying to get them to do their homework or you're trying
to get them to clean their room.
You're nagging them about something.
When they, when they say something to you, before you react, I want you to be a little
angry to take, take a minute, take 60 seconds, pause and breathe and walk away.
Wow.
And I think you'll find your child is going to do what you want them to do.
They just want not to be nagged about it and to feel like they're in control of when
they do it.
Well, Kevin, it has been an honor having you on the fatherhoodchallenge.
You've given us so many good nuggets and actionable steps that any dad can start doing
now and it's appreciated.
Thank you so much for being on the fatherhoodchallenge.
Thanks for having me, Jonathan.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the fatherhoodchallenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com
[music fades out]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Were you raised with harsh parenting techniques? Do you still rely on the same harsh parenting style you were raised with when parenting your own kids but find you’re not connecting with your kids or getting the results you want? If you’re ready to try something different, my guest will share some tips you can begin using right away.
Bryan Saint-Louis is a Youth Inspirational Specialist and Speaker with over a decade of experience in driving positive outcomes in education and parenting. And now I’ve brought his expertise to help you dads listening now.
You can connect wit Bryan Saint-Louis or learn more about what he's doing by visiting https://www.bslspeaks.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bslspeaks
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@bslspeaks
Email: info@bslspeaks.com
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Harsh Parenting Results and Alternatives
Were you raised with harsh parenting techniques?
Do you still rely on the same harsh parenting style
you were raised with when parenting your own kids?
But find that you're not connecting with your kids
or getting the results you want
if you're ready to try something different.
My guest will share some tips.
You can begin using right away in just a moment,
so don't go anywhere.
- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,
a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role.
And a challenge society to understand
how important fathers are to the stability
and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
- Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Brian St. Louis,
a youth inspirational specialist and speaker
with over a decade of experience
in driving positive outcomes in education and parenting.
And now I brought of his expertise on the program
to help dads listening now.
Brian, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
- Jonathan, thank you so much for having me.
I really appreciate it.
And it says an honor.
Thank you so much.
-
Brian, what is your favorite dad joke?
-
Man.
So I heard this one and I actually like this one a lot.
So someone comes to the dad and says,
"Hey, dad, Sunday was a sad day."
And then he says, "But yesterday was a sadder day."
(laughing)
Okay, all right, good.
We got it.
(laughing)
All right, I love it, we got it left, man.
That's all I need.
(laughing)
It got me.
- All right, but I hope the listener
has got a little left out of that one too, but.
(laughing)
As well.
- I'm sure they did.
That was awesome.
-
Oh man.
-
Well, Brian, let's start with your story.
How did you get involved with working with youth
and helping parents connect with their kids?
- I was 20 years old.
I used to work in a, as a,
not speaker necessarily at that time, right?
But 20, I was working as a, as a Bible teacher.
And I remembered I was embossed at the time
and there was a group of kids.
I wanna say about 70 kids and it was three of us.
And we were supposed to be basically helping them out
for, for the whole month that this series was happening.
And we were supposed to be teaching in the Bible.
Ultimately, the two other guys kind of stepped off
and found myself being the one having to take care
of a room of 70 kids between the ages of 13, 12, 13 to 17.
-
Oh wow.
-
Yeah.
And of course, I had some people who would come in
and help out and such, but for the most part,
the brunt of that focus was on me.
But man, when I tell you, I was,
I was so impressed with these kids being able to,
ask answers or certain questions that I had.
But then I also realized that I was very keen on connecting
very well with this age group because, you know,
I wasn't so old, you know, I'm only 20,
even though they said I was old, but I was only 20 at the time
and so I wasn't so far away from being a teenager
and I remembered what it felt like to be a teen,
trying to understand certain concepts
and also feeling like a lot of what was being taught
had no relativity to me.
And so I was very specific and intentional on the questions
that I was asking these kids ended up being such a powerful
time that brought me and led me to continue to do work
with youth when I was 21.
I started working at a youth juvenile detention facility,
just seeing the power of how radical empathy
was able to make me help build stronger relationships
with these youth but also impacting their lives
when they get out of that juvenile detention facility.
Being in that space at such a young age
helped me to see how powerful youth really are
and understanding how much they need strong supports
in their lives because a lot of them,
sometimes we see kids who are acting crazy,
we see kids who, you know, speak out of their disrespectful
and such and I always ask myself the question,
who taught them?
What was it that happened in their background
or their life that got them to the place that they were?
That they were and ultimately I'm not responsible
for who they are before they meet me
but because of the connection that I am right now with them,
now I'm responsible of modeling the proper behavior
that they can now choose to use in their future.
And so this is something that I started
when it was about 2021 and just seeing the power of how youth
are need that strong mentor and youth need that one caring adult
has pushed me to want to continue in the work with youth as well
but then as you said, right, as I got older, became a dad
I'm realizing how powerful it is for these children
to have strong figures in the home.
And so now as I'm also working with youth,
my main focus as well is also uplifting
and supporting the adults in the lives of youth
so that they can also know how to properly connect
with those teens and the children in their lives as well.
- The next question could be a tough one,
but definitely an important one.
Harsh Parenting has been a reality for many generations
and is argued to be effective.
This includes everything from yelling to even corporal punishment.
In fact, some say that we have crime rates
because parents are often too soft on their kids.
I'll give you one example I saw.
There was a post by a very popular pop star bragging
about the fact that she actually uses corporal punishment
on her kids and I believe she's a,
either a Gen Xer or a millennium.
And I looked in the comments and the comments were flooded
with mostly baby boomers who were jumping in there
and congratulating her.
So I'm curious, you know, if this is,
if this rule, this idea that harsh parenting is effective
and we don't have enough of it
and that's why kids are going wrong these days,
is this true or is this a lie?
- I don't think that's true.
We have seen high rates of criminality throughout the years
since the 80s, since the 90s.
And corporal punishment was absolutely a major use
in parenting at that time.
So it's not as though because of corporal punishment,
it made for better conditions.
A lot of youth were treated that way, right?
They had corporal punishment used
and yet crime rates have not necessarily lowered
or were lower back then than they are today.
I think there's a lot of more different factors
that deal with why youth are still necessarily
being connected or getting involved with criminality,
especially with the rise of social media,
they're being influenced in a major way,
which I think can also contribute to what they want
to do or how they're connected to other people around them,
but it's not necessarily for corporal punishment.
And in fact, I mean, when you look at the question, right,
for the fact that people argue as effectiveness
and I know a lot of people wanna say
mental health has also risen in these years,
but in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s,
how many people were actually going to counseling
due to their mental health?
We weren't necessarily seeing a lot of individuals
who were connecting to psychologists, the therapists,
because it was such a taboo concern.
And individuals were not necessarily trying to see
what was going on introspectively in their minds.
And so many of them, the statistics show
that mental health is on the rise right now,
but if we were actually doing the right work
to better ourselves, to connect ourselves
with mental health professionals,
when we were dealing with traumatic events,
we would have seen the same level of mental health
back then as well.
And I know people, for instance, Jonathan,
I know people love to say, well, it worked for me
and look how I turned out.
But I always ask the question,
if you go back to that child that you were,
don't think about the child, the adult that you are today.
I'm not talking about the adult that you are today.
I'm talking about that inner child that you were.
What was it that you're inner child needed?
Not that you're an adult and you can see things
in a better perspective.
What was it that you're inner child needed?
Did they need all of that punishment?
Did they need all of that yelling?
Even if it happened once or twice,
did they need it happening 10 times a week
or 10 times a day?
Right?
A lot of times we sometimes look at the perspective
of who we are today, but we don't look back
at who that inner child was
and what they probably needed better
in order for them to live a better life,
not just focusing on the impact that it has on our today,
but realizing that child probably needed
a little bit more love.
And if we looked at it that way,
maybe we would have a different perspective as well.
I can weigh on those two a little bit
from a slightly different perspective.
A lot of these arguments tend to reside in,
especially in conservative religious organizations
and denominations.
This is where we really tend to see that argument stick.
And I can tell you from my observation
that a lot of those same adults that are arguing
that have that argument that say,
look how I turned out and they did the same thing
to their kids that was done to them.
I can tell you that in churches
that have tried to grow youth programs,
a lot of times the biggest people,
the most of the people who stand in the way
in the growth of youth programs
and youth fellowship programs in a church
are often those same adults.
They are often the ones who are oppositional
to youth programs and youth initiatives.
They're an opposition to youth leadership and youth growth.
And you see more hostility in their interactions
with other youth.
That's been my observation.
- I can give you a quick example on that.
I remember one time 'cause I used to be a youth pastor, right?
And I remember there was a time where they blamed the youth
for whatever, like I was in a board meeting,
blamed the youth for the mess that was in the church
for the wires that were messed up in the audio upstairs.
And I was just sitting back and I was a little bit confused
because I was asking myself the question,
is that even true?
And I remembered as they were naming some of the things
that were happening, somebody said, oh no, no,
that wasn't Pastor Brian and them, that was somebody else.
That was another group.
And then they said, oh, what about the audio equipment
in the tech room?
Somebody raised their hand, oh no, that wasn't the youth,
that was X, Y, and Z, I couldn't remember exactly who it was.
And I just looked at them and I said,
you realize how you're quick to attack the youth
on what's happening here.
And you blame the youth on things
that they didn't even do in the first place.
The perspective was the youth caused problems.
And that's the philosophy that causes a lot of issues
that I see, like you said in churches
and in many different organizations as well.
If they don't, if they have a philosophical view
on how they see youth,
they will never be able to actually see them
as the empowering leaders that they are right now
and they could be even better.
Also from a biblical's perspective,
the biggest argument that's used
for enforcing corporal punishment on youth
is the scripture tech spare the rod spoil the child.
Yeah, I love that one.
Yeah, and what's interesting about that one is the rod.
The word, the Hebrew word that's used for rod
is the exact same word that's used for a scepter,
a scepter that a king or a queen would use.
And what's the purpose of a scepter, a royal scepter?
What is the purpose of it?
I mean, isn't that the scepter to basically
not like crown or shoulder royalty of the individual?
In that sense?
Yeah, it's a symbol of leadership.
It's a symbol of authority.
So when someone approaches the throne,
the king or queen isn't hitting anyone with the scepter.
And so what's really being said there is dads step up
and be a parent, be a dad.
I can even add to that right,
because Solomon's father was who?
David.
And what did David say about the rod?
It's a comfort.
Exactly.
That rod and that staff, they comfort me.
Why would, if the rod was meant to be
and to destroy and to demean,
how is that a comforting tool?
And so Solomon,
it's not.
It's an anxiety and it's a source of trauma.
Exactly.
And so I love that you brought that up.
Not a lot of people talk about the rod in that sense.
And so I love that you brought that analogy
and understanding of how the rod is really supposed to be.
Like you said, the symbol of authority.
That's amazing.
One of the biggest arguments I hear for why dads yell at their kids
is because it gets their attention.
And it's the only way that they will listen.
What are some other options dads have that would get better results?
Man, that's a really good question, Jonathan.
And as a father myself, I would say that one of the things
that have helped me to connect more with my children
is not the loud yelling dad voice.
But it's the presence.
It's just a strong presence with that child.
That child feels safe with me.
And I even tell him that.
I talk to him and I tell him, listen,
if you listen to me, I will guide you to places
that you will grow much better than me in your life.
And he's only four years old.
I have a four year old and a two year old.
And I'm very keen on making sure that they understand
how safe they are around me.
Because I'll be honest, growing up,
I used to be afraid of my dad.
Me and my dad right now have a very amazing relationship.
And that took time to build, but I used to be afraid of my father.
And so it wasn't very this strong loving connection
that I had.
It was more so on a fear base.
As I grew older, I understood certain aspects.
I also understood how he grew up and why things are the way
that they are.
But that doesn't mean that I have to do what was done to me
in a certain sense.
And so when I speak to my kids, and listen,
I'm not going to be a liar here as well as to say,
I've never yelled.
But when I yell, I'm quick to apologize.
I'm quick to tell them, hey, look, that he used a yelling voice,
that I didn't need to use in this moment at all.
This wasn't urgent where you were crossing the street
or something was happening to you.
I made a mistake in yelling at you right now.
And then I start breaking down.
Why is it that I did that in the first place?
And then what did we need to do in the situation?
How could we do this better?
And I tell you, as sometimes we think we
can't converse with our kids.
These kids are so smart.
They take up a lot of information.
I just spoke to my child this morning,
and I told him, and said, Levi, need you to come downstairs.
Then he says, OK, dad, he didn't come downstairs.
I didn't yell.
But what I did, I switched up the question.
I said, hey, Levi, what did I ask you to do?
Right?
I didn't say, come downstairs again.
And then now that aggravates me.
I told him, what did I ask you to do?
And then he says, oh, you asked me to come downstairs.
I said, OK, can you do that now?
And then boom, he just walks right downstairs.
A lot of the times--
Interesting.
Yeah, no, no, a lot of the times, man,
if we actually just converse deeper with our children.
And so one of the techniques that I've learned
is don't repeat your question twice.
When you give your question to your child,
hey, can you go clean that up?
And they'll be like, OK, yeah, clean it up.
Let's say they don't do it.
The next question should be, because now you're
giving yourself a sense of authority and power as well
while you're asking this question.
But you also don't have to be yelling
at reverting to anger and aggression.
You just asked the question, hey, what did I ask you to do?
And so now, instead of them having to be abrasive and such
back and building that type of connection,
it just thinks to them, so, oh, sure, he asked you to do this.
And then, all right, yeah, let's get to it.
It's simple techniques, but these are things
that have to be done from early on.
We're not expecting children to be adults.
And I think that's one of the problems that we have as parents
and as far as we expect them to be at a higher level of regulation
than we are, or maybe not higher than us,
but we expect them to be at higher level
than we think they are supposed to be.
The people who need to regulate their emotions
and know how to speak to them is always the adult.
We're modeling the behavior that needs to be shown.
And so when that child comes to us, we are able and should be capable
to show them the way to move in that light.
And so now they can see how to speak, how to understand,
how to act in certain situations.
So it makes it a lot better now when we're speaking
with assertiveness, not aggression, assertiveness.
And when we have to lay down a specific--
I would say tone, but this is what needs to be done in the home right now.
It's still done in a way that the child is still
loved, cared for, and communicated properly with.
But that's my perspective.
That's what I've seen has worked.
And a lot of the people who I've learned from goes, again,
I had mentors growing up.
And when those mentors showed me how they speak to their children,
it allowed me the opportunity to say,
I want to go a different route when I have children
to speak to them and to raise them a certain way as modeled better as well.
Let's talk about bonding.
How early does the bonding process start?
And how can dads create and maintain a strong bond with their sons or daughters?
Yeah, I love that question.
When I think about bonding, that happens since day one, right?
And somebody gave me some really good advice
when I had my first child that I could raise.
When I felt a bit confused because the child
was always wanting to be her own mother,
because at the end of the day, she was breastfeeding.
And so I found it kind of difficult.
How do I bond with the kid?
Or what am I supposed to do?
And I found those moments where I would just
be around both of them, just sitting, just connecting.
Somebody told me this very specific thing.
They said, when you take care of the mother, you're taking care of the child.
And one of the things that I found myself doing and learning early on was
the better I take care of my wife, that child will also be taking care of supported
and bonded with.
But then I also needed my own time.
I needed time to bond with my child.
I needed time to connect with my kid.
And one of the things that--
and I'll just be really transparent with this.
This was 2020, so the height of COVID.
And my child was only about one years old at the time,
but I was playing a lot of video games.
And I realized I asked myself the question.
I said, man, I'm playing more time or spending more time gaming than I am,
spending with my child.
Because COVID was-- nothing was going on.
There was a lot of confusion.
Everyone was just home, so I needed something to do.
And I found myself that something to do was to game instead of just sitting there
and chilling and just looking at my kid, making funny spaces and reading
or whatever the case may be.
Now, I'm not saying everybody has to do this, but I threw away my games.
I threw away-- actually, I sold my computer,
and I threw away the rest of the games that I had because I asked myself the question,
I said, do I care more about this than I care about my child?
And I wanted to be a lot more present and connected with my kid,
in which allowed that very thing.
I deepened my connection with my child, making some radical decisions
that were helpful to our relationship.
And four years later, he's almost five.
Man, when I tell you, my kid loves me.
I love my child.
We're so connected with everything that we're doing.
It's because I made some decisions that allowed us to build a strong connection
instead of waiting years later.
I don't need to wait until that child is six, seven, and throwing a baseball
or can play basketball or can do extra curricular activities
or it's good at something that I like in order for me to bond with them.
I just need to connect and just sit and converse and read and just build that bond.
And I think that once we start doing that more often,
these will deepen our connections with our children.
And no matter what they do, they'll love the connection that we spend time with.
It doesn't matter what we do, it's just the fact that we're spending the time together.
What can dads do if they've made mistakes in the beginning
and they don't know where to begin creating a bond and connecting with their kids
later in that journey?
I mean, first thing, man, just forgive yourself, number one,
because we don't need to hold on to that baggage, right?
We all make mistakes.
And so forgive yourself and move forward with that, right?
Because at the end of the day, if you show me anybody who says that they're a perfect father,
they're just a liar.
At the end of the day, let's just be real.
We make mistakes.
Let's understand that.
Let's forgive ourselves and let's move forward.
That's number one.
And then number two, as we're taking those steps,
let's really understand that child, right?
And one of the things that I, what I mean by that is,
don't just look at the fact that there are certain things that you love and care for.
And try to understand what they truly love and care for too,
and bond with them and those aspects in their lives.
So it's not just the things that you love and now you're projecting your life on them,
but you're able to now have this communication or the sharing bond
where you both can show what each other love and care for, and ultimately,
that child sees, "Man, my dad cares about this too in my life."
So I think that's very important as well.
How can dads connect with you or learn more about what you're doing?
Yeah, a lot of the work that I'm doing right now is more so centered around youth development
and empowerment and understanding how to truly build up the next generation.
And so my work has done a lot in schools.
And I do a lot of conferences as well where I speak to fathers,
where I speak about mental health, where I speak about youth development and empowerment,
I do a lot of work with schools and with classroom presentations.
I know a lot of dads might not be in that, but I do community work as well.
And so what that means is we're looking to bond parents with educators
so that they build a stronger connection to their schools.
That's one of the things that I think is very missed right now is the education to parent ratio.
And to even go a little bit deeper, as being an educator,
we see a lot of women in education, but we don't see a lot of fathers or dads or men in education
as much as we used to.
And so one of the missions that I'm looking to do is really start pushing men back into the schools
because it helps those kids to be able to see their fathers as leaders as well,
to care about their education in that sense.
And so that's a big mission of mine, but you could easily find me either on BSLspeaks.com.
You could even book me to come to different places that you would like for me to come speak at.
And then also my Instagram is BSL_Speaks as well.
And just to make this easier, if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com,
that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description and I'll have all the links
that Brian just mentioned. I'll have it posted there for your convenience.
Brian, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
Ain't no, my challenge is it's not about doing something specific. My challenge would be
to challenge your thinking, challenge the way that you view your relationship with your child.
I want you to challenge even the way that your child sees you.
Think about how does your child see you as a father?
And I want us to really just start thinking how we can deepen our connection with our kids.
I believe in this concept of empathy and radical empathy even more.
The action that it takes and empathy allows us to try to understand and to imagine the feelings
that that child is doing or feeling at that moment.
So I want us to try to challenge ourselves to think more empathetically.
To think about how that child is seeing their situation and how we can better be fathers,
be dads, be pouring into our children in a certain specific way.
And so with that challenge, I know that our perspectives will deepen and be able to connect deeper
with our child as well.
Brian, it's been an absolute honor to have you on the Fatherhoodchallenge.
You've given us tremendous wisdom and actionable steps that any dad can do
two day to do right now and get results.
And I really appreciate that.
Thank you so much for being on the program.
Thank you again for having me.
I really appreciate it, Jonathan.
Looking forward to hearing and seeing the impact that our fathers can take from us.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhoodchallenge.
If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhoodchallenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Do you have a daughter that you are trying hard to bond and connect with but are struggling? Today in this episode you’re going to get inside access into the relationship between a real father and daughter, what makes and keeps them close and how you can have the same relationship with your daughter.
My guests are Reena Friedman Watts with her dad and co-host of the Better Call Daddy podcast and show, Wayne Friedman.
To connect with Reena Friedman Watts or Wayne Friedman or listen to the Better Call Daddy Podcast, visit https://bettercalldaddy.com/
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Inside a Real Father Daughter Bond
Do you have a daughter that you're trying hard to bond or connect with but are struggling?
Today in this episode you're going to get an inside access look into the relationship
between a real father and daughter and what makes and keeps them close and how you can
have the same relationship with your daughter.
If you're ready to be inspired and ready to make some changes, help is on the way in
just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Father the Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to
take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Rina Friedman Watts with her dad and co-host of the Better Call Daddy Podcast
and show Wayne Friedman.
Rina and Wayne, thank you so much for being on the Father her Challenge.
Thank you for having us.
We're excited to be here.
Wow, I love that radio voice.
Let's start out with my favorite question of all.
What is your favorite dad joke and this is to both of you.
When I think of dad joke, I think my dad loves to say, you know what your problem is?
You like me.
Oh, you fall this mustache.
Your father's mustache.
Yeah, at the end of every reaction that we do, my dad continues to surprise me with his
reactions, by the way.
Sometimes I don't know what he's going to think about the guests that I've interviewed.
He's always like, when I have a good reaction to his reaction, he's like, you know what your
problem is?
You like me?
I'm like, yeah, I do.
Then I put that in my intro even because we say it so much to each other.
It is a true story.
I've listened to a few episodes and that's exactly what happens.
He does.
Wayne definitely says that.
Well, Wayne, let's start with you.
It's obvious you and Rina have a bond.
You can't co-host a program or podcast with your daughter without that strong bond.
So where did that begin?
Well, I think I've tried very hard to have a bond with all three of my girls and you know,
you have to find what interests them and you have to be part of their show.
In the beginning, you would think that a father, whether he has sons or daughters, wants
your children to be part of your show or my show, but it turns out that trying to force
or trying to put your values onto theirs, they have to accept it on their own.
It's got to be their choice.
And if it isn't their choice, it's really not going to work because eventually when someone
is telling you what to do or telling you how to feel or instructing you of what you can
do and what you can't do, eventually a person is going to revolt and say, you know, I've
had enough of that spaghetti in meatballs.
I want to try something else.
And I think a parent has to try to set some guidelines, but you have to be able to give
your children an opportunity to stand on their own two feet and be able to blossom and be
their own person.
And the best way to do that is to have communication that's not just one-sided.
It's got to be where it's reciprocal, where they have a voice that is going to be heard.
And if you can't get it from your father and your mother, where are you going to get
it from?
And if you get it from other places, it's sometimes a very tough learning experience.
It's a lot nicer if you can get it at home.
That's interesting.
So, if we go a little deeper into that, and if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're
really doing is you are modeling those values, but in the world of your daughters.
That's correct.
Rina, you've referred to your dad as your best friend whom you can share anything with.
What are your earliest memories of your dad that have made you feel close to him?
I was thinking about this question, and one of the earliest memories I have is decorating
my dad and our dogs with stickers and jewelry.
And he was always willing to kind of like play along to my shenanigans.
And you know, that progressed as I grew older.
I was putting on like musical performances and he would sit on the couch and clap his hands
and then you know, when my grandparents were in a nursing home, he encouraged me to go sing
for them and sing for the residents.
And I think that goes along with what he was saying, you know, encourage your kids' talents.
Each one of us kind of had our own talents.
I like to sing and I had a sister who played the violin and she played baseball and I had
another sister that was very into art and painting and whatever interest we had, he really
got us the lessons and went to our games and you know, cheered on the sidelines and was
there with, you know, my parents, my grandparents and it became a family affair.
I mean, as you can imagine, having three daughters, there was always us competing for our parents
attention and our interests and what we wanted to do versus, you know, what they wanted us to
do.
But they did make us believe that we could do anything that we set our minds to and I think
that that's really cool.
Like they never said you can't major in vocal music or you can't major in sports medicine
or how about physics or how about becoming a doctor.
Like I was pre-med for two and a half years and then switched my major to communications
and broadcasting and they were really okay with it.
They're like, okay, if that's what you want to do with your career and I did end up doing
that for my career but I was much closer to a bachelor's of science and I was on a full
scholarship at a college and I ended up transferring from the University of Charleston where I was
doing a little bit of partying to Purdue, which was a much more serious university and
I left behind a singing scholarship and decided I wanted to try something else and I didn't
really see a lot of resistance there.
You both co-host a podcast and show called Better Called Daddy.
Where did you come up with the idea of working together and how was that decision made?
How do that decision make you both stronger?
My dad is always who I've called.
He's always the one that can stay on the phone for hours at a time and pretty much handle
most situations that I've been in.
So that has been a common theme through my life.
I think I decided that would be a good idea for a show after I worked for a top podcaster.
I worked for Kathy Heller host of Don't Keep Your Day job and I was like seven months pregnant
helping her produce a 350 person event.
This was also after I had co-hosted the next level people show so I had kind of already worked
in radio, co-hosted another podcast, then worked for a top podcaster and my dad was in LA
on business meeting a colleague and I was seven months pregnant putting out tables for
sponsors and keeping the guests happy in the green room and he was like, I will help you
put out the tables.
I will help you set up the booths.
I will make sure this event runs smoothly.
He was worried about me moving chairs.
He was like my production assistant for the day.
I've been behind the scenes, kind of got my start in television at the Jerry Springer show
right out of college and worked in reality TV for a while and then like I said worked for
a bunch of influencers and I felt like during the pandemic it was kind of my opportunity
to step in front of the camera and use all of these skills that I had learned for all
of these years and I knew my dad wouldn't back out on me that he would be the best co-host
and that he really synthesizes my thoughts well and he's there for me and I thought that
his wisdom and his intergenerational flare would make a good show.
Everything I'm hearing from what you're saying is comes back to the earlier question of your
dad actually modeling this idea of being in your world of helping you thrive in your world
and helping you grow.
And his parents modeled that too.
He worked with his parents for 40 plus years and he learned every aspect of the business
and that's something that my grandfather encouraged.
He said if you want to have your own business then you need to learn all of the departments
not just had to manage people but had to do the work that you're asking the people to
do and so my dad worked alongside his parents saw them model that and you know it wasn't
just working together in the factory it was once he came home to you know they learned
how to invest in the stock market together.
We had a close-knit family where we got together on weekends.
I mean I spent the night at my grandparents house until I was about in fifth grade they had
like a special mattress for me in their own room.
I remember my grandmother on the typewriter doing the time cards and my grandfather always
had the news on and I grew up with my grandparents like a five minute drive away and whenever I called
them my grandfather was like be right there a little girl you know.
So my grandparents were a big part of my life like my you know I grew up in Kentucky so
people get married young and my grandparents were like second parents to me.
Everything I just heard you say I think can be summed up in one word and this is what I see
happening in the dynamics between you and your dad and that word is legacy.
There's a legacy generations deep that's being left and I think that's absolutely
amazing.
Yeah thank you.
I appreciate that because that's what the better called daddy podcast is about is really
sharing not only our legacy but asking people to investigate the legacy of their own families
and with their own experiences so that really coincides with what the theme of the show is
about.
So let's dive into the spiritual dynamics.
What dynamics of your father daughter relationship mimic the image of God and how does that relate
to all of us is in a true that at least in our family and with the religious background
that we have were obligated to really pass to the next generation everything that we've
learned and values were supposed to be able to pass down as the belief of God to the right
things and to be spiritual and to be educated and grow your whole life.
That's a legacy that we feel is very close to God and the fact is is that we just don't
live forever and the only way that we can have a chance of living forever is if we pass
on through the generations our knowledge and our wisdom and pass that along and hopefully
if you're successful in business a little bit we can give a tool of passing on and some
inheritance financially as well but it doesn't take much to blow the money.
So we better make sure that we pass down good values as mentioned already earlier that your
children and your grandchildren your great grandchildren want to learn and grow and have
values of caring about others and not just yourself and try to make humanity a goal not
just individual goals.
I love that it's funny to you because he always says have a couple kids your own you'll see
how easy it is.
It's a big job and the funny part is is that it only took a second to make arena but the
fact is is that it's a life long commitment it's a life long I don't know how to say it
I guess it's really where you have to set the right example for your children always
they don't necessarily follow what you say they follow more your actions of what you do
so you really have to set a good example hands on your whole life because your children
are watching you at all different ages of their development are are following what your
lead is and I think we have a responsibility to do the best that we can to set the best
example and like I said it's got to be done to where an individual has to understand that
part of our existence is to be able to give your children every opportunity to have a continuum
and without that I think our individual lives are would be more shallow.
There's something really profound that you're bringing up and that is the fact that
we have a spiritual responsibility and accountability as fathers for our children for the legacy
that we leave our children we are accountable we are responsible for that that's what it
means that's this whole idea of mimicking the image of God which is the way he set it
up this is the way it was designed to be and if I really dive into the emotional component
of it to me that's overwhelming that's that actually I would probably just go ahead
and say it's a scary thought to me when I look at it that way does it ever feel overwhelming
to you.
Always certainly can be and sometimes when you even think you've done a terrific job it
can all blow up in your face because events can occur out there in the real world that
can give you a major setback and the fact is is that we have to learn to pivot we have
to learn to understand that it's not the end of the world and we just have to find maybe
a new path or a new way of moving forward but we can't allow the pitfalls to stop everything
that we're trying to build.
Well the good news is we don't have to do it alone God has promised to help us if he's
given us a responsibility that great he doesn't typically give responsibilities like that
without access to helping resources from him to accomplish that.
I agree with you 100 percent.
Wayne and Reena I've been told by experts that eye contact is essential to a bond and connection
with your daughter is this true and what's your experience with this?
Oh absolutely.
The funny part is is that I can tell when I'm looking at Reena whether she really hears
me or if I have surprised her with an answer it shows up on her face just like she's written
a book to me.
So I think that expression or facial expressions as long as you know going with the eyes as
well I think you can get a good read you can sometimes really know if somebody's got
something in their hand by the way they're acting that's why a lot of times they have a hat
on or a hood and dark glasses because they don't want to give away the emotion of their
hand at all where they're trying to just be a blank because I do agree that we our bodies
give us a lot of communication of how we really feel where it's very hard to fake that.
So I agree with you that eye contact facial contact whether a person is you don't have
them see a sweat okay or be extra nervous because like I said when it comes to being in
the clutch you want someone that can step up to a higher level when you're competing when
the pressure is on not someone who's going to melt.
I think I have your eyeballs.
My face says it all.
Right.
It's like I said she can be communicating just by her reaction to things and sometimes I have
to spend a little extra time calming her down even when she has said nothing okay just
from the facial expressions.
And I think a mother has that instinct even with her own children.
I mean even in the way that she's able to pick up baby cries that's what I was thinking
is you know you can tell when they're hungry you can tell when they're hurt you can tell
when they're sick.
So I think a lot of it is instinctual and another thing that I wanted to say too was my relationship
with my dad and even my grandparents has led to a belief in God because my dad always told
me as a young kid that as long as he's alive nothing bad will ever happen to me and I think
you know when I'm having a hard time I even am like if you love me like my dad loves me
then help me out right now like I know he puts up with a lot.
You know I talk to God like that because of my relationship with my dad I feel like I'm
able to believe in God and in the hardest times.
Oh wow yeah that's powerful and I think that's another form of a legacy that's being left.
I would and I would argue maybe the I would argue maybe that's the most important one.
They're all very very important but that's the most important legacy because that's what
was really designed all the way from the very very beginning the very first book.
Scripture is about that.
If that's being achieved that speaks to a huge success that's a big win as a parent.
You touched on a different dynamic and that is the the mother daughter relationship.
The very same thing happens there.
Yeah I think that it's important to be able to talk to to both of your parents to feel
understood and even in what we're trying to achieve with our show and I think what you're
trying to achieve with yours as well is by hearing people's stories and by giving them
time and not rushing through that and and making people feel like their story matters or
that their experience matters or that they can help someone that literally can save people's
lives.
That literally can give people legacy and purpose.
It's truly unbelievable what listening to someone tell their story can do.
My dad even encouraged me to put ear pods on his 93 year old mother and have her tell me
stories of where she came from so that I could get that before she wasn't able to tell that
story anymore and now I'm so glad that I did that and he found a recording of his dad when
he was clearing out the factory that they used to work at together.
It was like a cassette recording of he was getting ready to fire an employee and the other employee
who had referred him to the company was like I'm sorry I referred that guy like he was making
me look bad and he was like well you know thank you for letting me know that but I think
my grandfather was like hitting record just to document what he was getting ready to do
and I had that cassette transferred to an MP3 and I did an episode where I interviewed my
grandmother and then did a little transition explaining that I had found this tape and so
I had my grandfather in the same episode and his philosophy on work and then my dad responded
to the episode so it was like a triple generation episode me and my grandparents and my dad
and that too is like the power of storytelling the power of legacy and the power of documenting
for the next generation.
I think even your daughter was part of that show I think it was four generations.
Yeah my kids have participated even in the podcast through creating intros asking some
of the guests that I've interviewed questions coming up with different commercials with me.
I think that if you have skills that you can pass on to your kids chances are they have
some of those talents and they might even not not know that they have those talents so if
there's something that you're good at I'm even trying to tell my dad teach teach my kids
how to invest you know teach my kids how to take care of the yard teach my kids how to
take care of their grandparents I think them seeing me wanting to go see my 95 year old
grandma even though it's their spring break but you know how many years do I have left
with her I think that that teaches them lessons just in in going to visit remember your
actions sometimes speak louder than words.
Yeah I saw a news article that they opened like a child care center in a nursing home they
are testing that model because old people love babies and kids and kids love old people
and there is I feel like that it's missing from society today like kids live away from their
parents and parents live away from their parents me my dad flies to Florida like once a month
to go help out with his mom and you know we're also spread out and like I said earlier in
the episode I grew up with both sets of my grandparents within a five ten minute drive
away and they were coming to all of my performances or all of my school events and grandparents
day now grandparents day is like a parent coming or an aunt coming or a friend coming from
the community and and that's great to it's just there is wisdom from those other generations
and I think we still need to kind of incorporate some of that for learning.
I want to move on to a different direction why is it essential for dads to drop their anger
immediately and always when they interact with their daughters.
The truth of the matter is is that if you want your daughter to have a relationship with
a man down the road you have to give even an example of what a man should be like to
your daughter so you have to treat her right first you have to be understanding first you
have to be easy with your tone first because if you don't do that what can happen is that
they will meet someone out there and if you're yelling at your daughter or if you're overdoing
it or if you're being holding them back or telling them what to do and they can't do this
then they can't do that.
Well guess what then they're going to use that example and say well I love my dad and
my dad was like that maybe I've got to find somebody that's like my dad but not necessarily
in a good way but in a bad way and then that's how girls can end up in an abusive relationship
because they think that that's normal so I think it's very important especially with
a daughter that a father has to be extra extra extra patient and understanding and set the
best possible example.
You want to be a little rough with your son you want him to be a little tougher but with
a daughter you got to treat her like she's a piece of pie with whipped cream and a cherry
on top.
Love that answer.
You know what are your thoughts on this?
I think that my parents got married super young and to be honest my dad was very passionate
in his younger years with expressing himself and even if there was some yelling I think
it's really important just to tuck your kids in at night and let them know that you love
them and to drive them to school in the morning and ask them what's on their mind and if they
want to talk for an hour or two at a time do that and if there are things that you can't
talk about like you know I went to a grandparent so that's what comes to mind for me is there
are going to be times where you guys don't see eye to eye or that you're not going to be
as close I mean even when I was in college I was definitely figuring out myself and wanted
some years to do that but just let your daughter know that kind of like what you stand for
and what your values are and that you're going to be there and you're going to be accepting
and you know that you can call it any hour.
How can dads listening connect with you both with any questions or to learn more about
what you're doing or to just listen into your podcast?
BetterCallDaddy.com and we love when people have questions for us that's something that we
do at the end of every episode we say is there anything that you would like to ask my
dad and it can be around business it can be around a personal struggle that you're having
people have even said that they want to adopt my dad and that is the biggest form of flattery.
As we close what is your challenge to dads listening now?
Dad should express to their daughters what they're proud of them about.
I don't think that dads do it enough maybe they just don't think too and I think it's
really powerful to do that.
Let your kids know that what they've done is good and that you see that in them.
I think letting your kids know that you see their gifts stays with them for a really long
time.
It's something that they can always draw from.
But dad really has to be able to step up and be able to show that they're going to be
there for their daughter no matter what.
I feel the same thing about a son too.
You've got to be there unconditionally and sometimes it's hard because if they're doing
certain things that are against the grain that you don't believe in but you have to try
to put your you know how the shoe fits on the other foot and try to see where they're coming
from despite your own beliefs.
But it's hard.
Sometimes it's really hard but you have to be willing to at least try to find some middle
road if you can.
Wayne Reena it has been a pleasure having you both on the fatherhood challenge.
We've given us so much wisdom, much needed wisdom.
I've been looking forward to doing this episode for a long time because I knew it was going
to be packed with so much wisdom and certainly true today.
Thank you so much for being on the fatherhood challenge.
Thanks for having us again.
We appreciate it.
Thanks Jonathan.
Loved your questions.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the fatherhood challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Has the world fallen under a curse? If so what is it? If you've ever wondered why it seems the world is spinning out of control with things like violence, anger needless suffering and mental health issues, the root cause of most of it is the same and so is the solution.
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Transcription - The Curse From Ignoring Fatherhood
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a
Challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their families environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. It's always good to have you with me.
I always appreciate each person that listens. There's many things you could be listening to, many things that you could direct your attention to.
But you have chosen to listen to this program and you've chosen to listen to this episode.
And I just want to tell you right now that I appreciate you. I appreciate each and every one of you.
Thank you so much. This program is going to be a little bit different.
You've probably already noticed a little bit of a change in the format. We have a lot to cover.
And it goes pretty deep, so we're not going to waste any time. We're really just going to dive in.
So I want to talk about the Fatherhood Challenge, what the Fatherhood Challenge is doing, why it exists, and what it has to do with you.
The Fatherhood Challenge was, was a direct call in my life by God.
This wasn't something I had any desire to do, nor did it, did I have any interest in doing something like this.
But it was a calling that I felt. I've talked about this story on other episodes of how the Fatherhood Challenge started.
I made a deal with God. And the deal was that since I didn't want to do this and I didn't know anything about how to do something like this,
the deal was that God would take ownership for the program.
I was willing to be the grunt. I was willing to be the face of the Fatherhood Challenge, the voice of the Fatherhood Challenge.
But this would have to be his program. This would have to be his agenda, and he would have to take charge and run it.
He would be responsible for opening doors and closing doors that I or the program were not meant to go through.
And I can tell you to this day that he has kept that promise.
When I think about why the Fatherhood Challenge exists, it's a very sobering reminder of where God's priorities are, and where our should be.
So we're going to take a look at those priorities. Where exactly are our priorities individually?
Where are our priorities as a culture?
The heart of God is very, very, very close to the Fatherhood topic in the Fatherhood agenda.
And there's a very, very unique reason why, and we're going to explore that in depth.
And why Fatherhood should be close to you?
So if you've paid any attention to the Fatherhood Challenge, if you've looked at the website, if you've looked at the logo, one of the things you're going to see as part of the logo is the mission statement and purpose.
The mission statement and purpose comes from Malachi 4-6. His preaching will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers.
Otherwise, I will come and strike a land with the curse.
We don't like to talk about the curse part. The first part of that text really makes us feel warm and fuzzy.
But the second part is just as important to talk about as the first.
Originally, when we think of this scripture text, we think of thousands of years ago in the time of Elijah, and this has been part of the Elijah message.
But we think of it as a story that was meant, that was written thousands of years ago, and it was,
and that it was meant for that time. And yes, it was meant for that time as well.
However, that scripture text is part of a prophetic message, and that prophetic message is equally valid for our time.
It is relevant to the day and time that we are living in today.
If you want proof of that, all you have to do is look at some of the bad things that have happened in our country, specifically things like mass shootings.
You don't even have to look at that. You can just turn on the news and watch the news every night.
But if we want to go even deeper, yes, go look at things like mass shootings.
So every time a mass shooting happens, what is one of the first two things that gets talked about?
One is gun control, and two is school security, or if it's happening in malls or in airport or some other public place,
how to secure that environment. What you won't hear talked about is the home life of the shooter.
Where was the father in that shooter's life? You will never hear that talked about on the news.
You will never hear that explored. And why is that? It's very simple.
It's a lot less painful to talk about things like gun control and security than it is to talk about what's going on in our homes.
But it's time that we do because that is the curse that got us specifically talking about.
But it is an escalation of violence. It is it is it is being out of control. It is a culture that is out of control.
It is individuals who are out of control. And the root of most of that is lack of a father,
a father who is either emotionally absent or physically absent or often both. This is the root cause of it.
And this is what we will do anything we can to avoid talking about.
There are many countries that are taking the fatherhood initiative seriously. But if you turn on the news,
this is not something that you will hear discussed on the news. You'll still hear you might hear some good stories now and then.
But it's generally bad news that you hear when you turn on your local news. We aren't talking about fatherhood.
The whole of the place is I would expect to hear some sort of a sermon or some sort of talk about fatherhood and the importance of fatherhood and what it means to God.
I would expect in a house of worship to hear that discussion or to hear a sermon like that happening.
But I would challenge you to reflect back on when the last time was that you heard a sermon about fatherhood and about the image of God.
So if we can't even talk about fatherhood and a house of worship, how do you expect to hear the topic of fatherhood being discussed on a national level in any country.
Let's talk about what happens when we ignore these warnings when we don't take it seriously.
Fatherless has been found to have significant impact on crime rates. And here's some statistics and research findings on the topic.
According to the US Department of Justice children from fatherless homes are more likely to be involved in criminal behavior.
They are at a higher risk of committing a variety of crimes including drug abuse, violence and juvenile delinquency.
A study published in the Journal of Research and Crime and Delinquency found that fatherless children are more likely to engage in criminal behavior compared to children who live with both parents.
Research from the National Fatherhood Initiative also shows that children who grow up without a father are more likely to experience poverty, drop out of school and have behavior problems, all of which are risk factors in criminal behavior.
You think this might be a reason to take fatherhood seriously? We have prisons, both local prisons, we have state prisons and we have federal prisons that are overcrowded.
Now let's talk about something else of the fatherhood initiatives that are out there that do exist fatherhood programs.
There are very few programs out there that are actually involving God that actually talk about God and involve God as the solution.
Being the fact and truth that we are made in God's image does it seem does it make any kind of logical sense to leave God out of the process of bringing fathers and children together?
Does it make any kind of logical sense to leave God out of the process of a father trying to improve himself?
Does it make any sense when we are made in God's image?
So in our arrogance, have we actually accomplished anything? Have we actually made any improvements without God?
Let's explore what religion actually contributes to the fatherlessness discussion.
There are some studies and reports that have explored the role of religion, including Christianity in addressing issues related to fatherlessness.
And here are some of the key points and findings.
Many faith-based organizations, including Christian churches, play a significant role in providing support and resources to families affected by fatherlessness.
These organizations often offer monitoring programs, mentoring programs, counseling services and community support to help address the challenges faced by children growing up without fathers.
Research has also shown that religious involvement, including participation in Christian activities such as attending church services
and engaging in religious practices was associated with a greater family stability. This can include stronger parent-child-relationships, reduced likelihood of divorce and improved overall family well-being.
The Christian faith emphasizes the importance of fatherhood and provides guidance on the roles and responsibilities of fathers within families.
Many Christian teachings stress the importance of fathers being present, supportive and actively involved in their children's lives.
So let's examine this a little bit further. But if you actually go and look into, for example, if you look at a lot of radio networks, a lot of radio programs, you'll be hard pressed to find programs specifically dealing with fatherhood.
They are out there, but they are few and far between. I am very, very proud to be part of a network that actually cares about fatherhood.
And yes, I am one of the programs on a network that does actually care about fatherhood.
Let's talk about religion. Let's talk about what God has to say about religion.
And this scripture text comes from Isaiah 1. This is God talking.
What makes you think I want all your sacrifices, says the Lord? I'm sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fat and cattle.
I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. And when you come to worship me, who asked you to parade through my courts with all your ceremony?
Stop bringing me your meaningless gifts, the incense of your offerings disgusts me.
As for your celebrations of the new moon in the Sabbath and your special days for fasting, they are all sinful and false.
I want no more of your pious meetings. I hate your new moon celebrations and your annual festivals. They are a burden to me. I cannot stand them.
When you lift up your hands in prayer, I will not look. Though you offer many prayers, I will not listen for your hands are covered with the blood of innocent victims.
Wash yourselves and be clean. Get your sins out of my sight. Give up your evil ways. Learn to do good.
Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows.
Come now. Let's settle this, says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet, I will make them white as snow.
Though they are red as crimson, I will make them white as wool.
If you will obey me, you will have plenty to eat. But if you turn away and refuse to listen, you will be devoured by the sword of your enemies.
I, the Lord, have spoken. So yes, that's a fascinating one from Isaiah. Do we have a lot of wars today?
Yeah, are we talking about fatherhood? No. Could this be part of the curse that God talked about that God tried to warn us about thousands of years ago?
Yeah, absolutely. I believe that 100%. Orphans are a parentless. They are without a parent.
And there's lots of ways for that to take place. A parent can be physically absent.
An apparent can also be emotionally absent and sometimes both. And this includes fathers.
So yes, the fatherhood agenda, the fatherhood topic is front and center to God's heart.
And as long as we are choosing to ignore this issue, as long as we are choosing not to talk about it,
and as long as we are deliberately choosing to leave God out of the discussion, the curse is promised.
And it is actively happening. God is not interested in your piety.
God is not interested in your religious rituals and your services. He's not interested in your plain church.
He's interested in how you treat those around you.
If you've done the homework, if you've done a Bible study on it, then you already know very, very well
that an expectation before you come and take part in the Lord's supper.
The expectation is that you first go make things right. The starts in your home.
The starts with your wife, the starts with your children. You first make things right in your home.
Then you go make things right. With your brothers and sisters in the church,
with people outside the church that you've wronged, you go make those wrongs right.
You apologize where you need to make apologies. You make things right. Then you come before the Lord
and participate in the Lord's supper. That is a very, very, very clear expectation.
Now, let's talk about children. Children in this day and age are treated like an inconvenience.
They are treated like a burden. If you want proof of that, all we have to do is talk about abortion.
We're not going to spend, we could easily spend an hour episode alone just talking about abortion,
but we're not going to do that. But the point is made, if you spend any time thinking about or
researching the abortion issue, it's not hard to find the root issue in that is that children
are an inconvenience. That is the central theme in abortion. Something a funny thing about children
is that when you have them, suddenly it's not all about you anymore. You now have to care for someone
else. You have to think about someone else besides yourself. It's very, very normal to have fears,
certain fears. Am I ready? Am I going to be able to actually care for this child? Not feeling prepared.
And you can have these feelings when you expect the child. But it's another thing when you actually
don't want the child because it's going to up into your life because it's going to ruin your life
because all you want to do is think about yourself. When thinking about yourself is the root motive
for why you want to have an abortion, that's a problem. And it is not the unborn child's problem.
It is not the unborn baby's problem. It is an internal problem. That's reason enough
to prove that children are often seen as an inconvenience in our culture. If you go into certain
churches, children are treated with the philosophy that they're to be seen but not heard. There are
many churches where if a child starts getting loud, a deacon will escort the mother or someone will
escort the mother out of the church or shame the mother or shame both the mother and the child.
Jesus, however, had a very different take on children. Children flocked to him. He made time for them.
He made them feel like they were special, like they were wanted. If we treated children that way,
if we treated our own children that way, if children were seen as a blessing,
instead of a curse or an inconvenience, well, I don't think we really would have to be talking
about the fatherhood issue as urgently as we need to now. So what is scripture have to say about
children? If we look at Psalm 1273, that text says children are a gift from the Lord.
They are reward from him. Well, that's a different way of looking at children.
Children being a reward from God. Children being a gift from God. What if our culture thought of children
that way? Because the funny thing is when we neglect the fatherhood issue, when we ignore
fatherhood and when we ignore God's role in fatherhood, what we're really saying is that we don't
like children. What we're really saying is that children are not important to us. It's the same thing.
You can't separate the father from children. Children need their father. I have seen time and time
and time again. The damage that happens to children when they are missing their father.
When a father is either alienated out of a child's life or a father chooses to alienate
himself from his children's life. And sometimes it happens other ways, other unfortunate ways that
can't be, there's nothing you can do anything about such as death. Fatherlessness can happen that way.
But the earlier the absence happens in the child's life, the deeper the damage, I've experienced it
in my own life. This is how I know. And I've seen it in other people's lives. And this is why
when we ignore this issue, what we are also saying is that we don't care about fatherless children.
They are not a priority in our culture. We don't care about them. If we don't care enough to talk
about fatherlessness, and if we don't care enough to talk about God's role in solving it, then we really
don't care about children. Now let's move on and let's talk about the image of God. What is the
image of God have to do with any of this? If you ever look at the Lord's prayer in scripture,
and this is how Jesus taught us to pray and taught us disciples to pray. The very first thing is our
father. We address God the father as that as our father. So is it a stretch for us to understand
that we are made in the image of God? This is in scripture. It's in the book of Genesis, the creation
story. We are made in the image of God. I don't know what part of that our culture refuses to accept
refuses to understand and deliberately ignores. It's a tall order for a father to try to understand
that his relationship with his children is a reflection of his relationship with his heavenly
father. And that's the way it was designed to be. It's a tall order. You weren't meant to deal with
this alone. So why do we choose to? What exactly are we scared of? So as we wrap this up, I want to
talk, I want to challenge you to look at yourself, to look at yourself. Where are you in this whole
discussion of fatherhood? Are you a missing father in your own life and you're struggling with how
to be apparent to your own children? Are you struggling to push past your own pain to become
available for your own children? Are you one of the people that are not really interested in
the fatherhood agenda and talking about it and you'd rather just ignore it and pretend it's not an
issue? If that is you, why do you feel that way? What's the root reason why? Are you one of those people
who refuse to involve God in the fatherhood discussion? Because you're angry with God over your own
issues or your own pain that you're going through. If you fall into any of those categories,
I'm not going to sugarcoat the solution. The solution may or may not be what you think or what you
want it to be, but the center of the solution and the solution itself is God. It is God.
God has always been open to us. If you're mad at God over a painful past or and I've been there,
I know what that's like. If you're angry, if you're mad at God because you were abandoned as a child,
the solution is to talk to him. He's not afraid of your anger, believe me, but he wants to hear from you.
He wants to reveal the truth to you. He wants to heal you. He's not willing to abandon you.
He's not willing to leave you sitting there in your anguish.
But if you don't talk to him, he's not going to force himself on you either. That's not the kind of
God he is. So I want to challenge you to reach out to God if you're struggling as a parent
with anything, whether it's raising a teen, whether it's lack of sleep and trying to have patience
to take care of your family and not even sure how to do that well, talk to God about it. Bring everything
to him. He wants to hear from you. Everything. He wants to hear everything from you. Every little detail
he wants to know about and he wants to be involved. So don't shut him out. Don't leave him out.
Your anger brings that to him as well. He wants to hear that. Don't hold anything back.
And the other thing is trust. And that comes with time and that comes with trying him.
Give him a chance. Open up to him and then watch what he does.
So as we close and wrap up this episode, I want to pray a prayer for you. And so I want to ask that
you open up your heart and take this prayer and is your own. Heavenly Father,
thank you so much for each person listening now. I want to ask that you will personally send
your Holy Spirit into their life, into their heart. And I want to ask that you will
that you will come close and that you will read their what's on their mind and what's on their heart.
It could be pain from a traumatic past. It could be an abandonment from a missing Father in their life
that could be from a death that could be from a dad who's walked out. Whatever it is, Father,
I want to ask that your presence will be there with that dad, with that person that you will be
especially close to them that you will bring healing. The Holy Spirit is known as the great healer.
And so I want to ask for healing for that person that you will heal their heart.
For the dad that is feeling stressed to the breaking point, feeling overwhelmed, unsure of what to do in
raising raising his children. You are also the source of knowledge and you are also the source of
wisdom. And so I want to ask that you will give that dad wisdom and knowledge to know what to do.
It may be help. Maybe that dad needs an extra hand and needs help.
Whatever resources that dad needs to take some of that burn in a way to let him know that he's not alone.
I want to ask that you will provide that for that dad that he can parent that child that he can
love that child with all of his heart and give that child what he needs. And at the same time
that his own heart would be filled. So that is my prayer, Father.
For Father's listening today, help them to understand and realize they are not alone that you
love them beyond what they can comprehend. That you care about them, that you see them,
that they are not alone. Thank you so much, Father. In Jesus name. Amen.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you’re a dad who’s experienced sexual abuse and/or physical abuse as a child and it has wrecked your life into adulthood, this is an episode you aren’t going to want to miss. You might be desperate for real lasting healing.
Dennis Knight Sr. is the founder of King Me Ministries, a ministry that focuses on equipping men to be who God created them to be. Dennis had a dark childhood that included sexual abuse and he will share his story and journey of how he survived the abuse and came to a place of forgiveness and true lasting healing.
You can learn more about King Me Ministries and connect with Dennis Knight Sr. at: https://kingme-ministries.com/
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcript - A Father’s Journey From Being Abused to Healing
If you're a dad who's experienced sexual abuse and or physical abuse as a child and it is
wrecked your life into adulthood, this is an episode you are not going to want to miss.
You might be desperate for real lasting healing. And my guest has been through all of this and
he will share his story and his path to healing with us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire
fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how
important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment. Now here's your
host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Dennis
Knight Senior. Dennis is the founder of King Me Ministries, a ministry that focuses on equipping men
to be who God created them to be. Dennis has had a dark childhood that included sexual abuse
and he will share his story and journey to how he survived the abuse and came to a place of
forgiveness and true lasting healing. Dennis, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
What a pleasure. The pleasure is definitely mine. I look forward to what we can discuss today.
So Dennis, let's start with a dad joke. What is your favorite dad joke?
Let me see. I guess I would go with why do chicken cubes have only two doors?
Why do chicken cubes have two doors? I'm not really sure.
Because if they had four, they would be called chicken sedans.
Thank you for sharing that. Dennis, let's start with your story. What happened to you as a child
and how did it impact you as an adult and as a dad? That's a great question. First, thanks for the
opportunity of being able to share this. I'll start by saying that I never thought I would be able
to. But there's something that has clicked recently and I see that God is asking me to do this
for purposes that I don't fully understand. But I can see that it is it seems to be a life raft
for some people that are drowning in where I was and I see that God is starting to get glory for that.
So I thank you for the opportunity in having me on as your guest.
Even from an early age, I wanted to know Jesus. I discovered Jesus at the age of about seven or eight.
I did that by watching this TV show on a network called USA Network. The TV show or the cartoon
was called Storybook and it was a story of two young kids who would travel back into these
biblical times and what they would see in these biblical stories coincided with something that
they were dealing with in their real life and they would understand how God wanted them to respond
to that. And watching that cartoon just, I just fell in love with Jesus. I can't fully explain it.
I come from a home where Jesus was nothing more than a curse word and I was the first person to
to seek him out and to know him and what I know now is that he was seeking me out the entire time.
I wasn't seeking him. But watching this TV program, I had a neighbor who finally the next phase,
she stepped in and invited a bunch of us kids in the neighborhood to go to this vacation Bible
school program at a local church. I loved it. I was all in and all my buddies went and not one of
them enjoyed it, but I loved it. I was so drawn to Jesus even more because of this vacation Bible
study of vacation Bible school. That same church invited me to go away to a summer camp for a week
that their church was hosting and it was there that they filled in the gaps and told me who it was
that I was so drawn to this person of Jesus. And I just fell deeply in love with him and I put my
trust in him and I wanted to be a saviour. And I knew even at that moment at age eight, I wanted to be
a pastor. And what happened was this church dropped us off at this camp and that person that was in
charge, that pastor retired. And a week later, we were actually picked up by a brand new pastor.
And that pastor was young and hip and he was kind of cool, but we had no idea that was even happening.
And back home, I lived to go to church and I wanted more of God. I wanted him more than anything.
And I was invited by this new pastor to stay over, to help. He made me feel special included. He kind
of filled in some of the things that I was lacking in my own relationship with my family. And my hope
was that in spending time with him that he would show me more of who Jesus was. And unfortunately,
he didn't. He started to sexually abuse me and that abuse lasted for several years, progressively.
And as I've come through that healing process, one of the hardest things for me to do
was to see like, where were you in this Jesus? Why didn't you stop this? Why would you lead me
to a man who I thought was going to show me more of you, but you allowed him to hurt me and
ways that are unspeakable? Coming through that healing process, those were the hardest years of my life.
And looking back, I realized that life is lived forward and it's understood backwards. And I say that
to say that I didn't see how that childhood abuse impacted me until I've been removed from that
in healing. And as I look at that, I see that my own self worth was in the tank. I constantly
doubted myself and my ability. I had these big dreams that I thought were of God, but I had zero
confidence that I was the man enough to accomplish those. I felt like I was always posing. And I was
getting really good at hiding the pain and brokenness, especially from other men, hoping that they
never could tell that I was damaged and even dirty. I was always confident that other men knew
that I was less than a man for what I allowed to happen to me. At least that was my thoughts.
I feel like my chance at being a man was stolen from me and I could never get that back. As a
dad, I was completely overprotective. I wouldn't let my kids sleep out anywhere. I trusted nobody. I
always thought that they wanted to hurt my child. And when it came to my walk with Jesus, I knew that
he loved me, but it always felt that he loved me for some selfish reason. He loved me for what he
could gain from me. I saw him through the eyes of my abuser. Jesus loved me, but he had an ulterior motive.
He didn't just love me. He loved me for something that he could get from me. And that was really,
really difficult. If God could have prevented such a horrible abuse from happening, then why didn't He?
My own faith in Jesus has never really wavered. As I look back on this and this is the remarkable
side of it, I have always believed in his ability to have saved me through this. I believe that he can
bring good from what's happened to me, but I question, I just, I feel like that question has to be,
to be, to be answered. If God were ever to be trusted by the men who have been abused or fathers who
have not been able to prevent their own kids from being abused, we need to have an understanding of
this. We need to have an answer for that. And yes, God could have stopped my abuser. And in some
ways, He tried, right? He tried to put those guardrails to prevent evil from coming into this world.
It's complicated and that's hard to understand and it takes some faith. But here's what I understand
and choose to believe about why God allows bad things. I am sure there are greater minds that can speak
to this, but for me, this is what God has allowed me to believe and where He's allowed me to connect
back with Him. I think of a couple things. I think of the book of Job and had God decided to protect me
and let no harm come to me. I feel like Satan could have sent a God. Of course, he's going to follow you.
Of course, Dennis is going to be a good pastor. Of course, he's going to be a good dad. Of course,
because you've protected him and you keep him safe from any harm. God could have challenged God
if God chose to just supernaturally protect me. But God let Satan cause some really bad things to
happen to Job and to me and other people that have been abused. But one thing is interesting. God
trusted, a Job trusted God. Job was frustrated. Job was angry, but that was all directed towards God.
Job's eyes never left God. He questioned. He was frustrated. He was angry, but he was angry
in a relationship with God. And what I've discovered is Satan doesn't want me to worship him.
Satan's plan is so much more simple than that. What Satan seems to want to do is he wants my
eyes to leave God, to look at my situation, to be afraid of the evil that happens. And in doing so,
Satan wins. Satan's goal is simply to get my eyes to not look at my savior through the hardest
times of our lives. The second thing that I look at is the story in John 9, where the disciples come
across this blind man and they say to Jesus, Jesus, who sent him or his parents? In Jesus looked at them,
he said, "Neither. Sometimes some of these bad things happen to people so that the glory of God
can be shown." And I see the story of Job and the story of Jesus in John 9 on the same level.
Because Job chose to trust God through unspeakable things, unspeakable loss. God was honored. God was
able to look at the enemy and say, "See? I can allow the worst things to happen to them, but when they
keep their eyes on me, everything's okay. Everything works out. Everything makes sense." And so,
why does God allow some of that stuff to happen? I don't fully know. But I do know in His promises
and where I get my hope is through the Prophet Joel, where God says through Him. He says, "I will
restore the years that the Locus have eaten." And so, while I can't understand why God allowed it,
why He didn't prevent it, I know that He has poised to get glory for Himself. I know He's poised to get
to make good things come out of this in my own life, even if it's just to make me more like His Son.
I know this promise that He says, "What was stolen from you, Dennis? All the things that you've had
to go through, because you've trusted in me, because your eyes remain on me. One day soon, I'm going to
restore all that stuff that was stolen from you." And so, that's kind of where I am. And that's how
God has allowed me to answer why He has allowed this to happen in my life.
I think it's important to note as well that God doesn't cause these bad things to happen. He
allows them. And I think the other part of this to understand about God is that it says repeatedly
in Scripture that God really loves justice. Justice is a very, very big deal to Him. And when we go
to the story of Job, and we look at how it resolves that God restores Job, in part of that is all of
His friends who were mocking Him, who were ridiculing Him, criticizing Him, who were really of no help.
And they had a very holier-than-thou attitude, like, "What did you do to bring this on yourself?"
You need the piety that they were trying to brag about and demonstrate to Job.
In the end, that comes back to bite them because when God makes it very clear to them that they were
wrong, and that they had actually sinned, God made it clear, "I'm not going to listen to your prayers,
I'm not going to accept your sacrifices or anything until you have made first made things right
with Job." When you have repaired things with Job and repaired that relationship,
yeah, then go make sacrifices to mean, "Then I'll listen to your prayers and forgive you."
Yeah, I think it was Tim Keller who said that. He made such a good point. He says,
"Jobe was permitted to share his frustration, to share his anger, the share, the regret that he was
ever born." He was allowed by God to do that, and God didn't call that sin because what Job did,
which was different than his friends, is Job directed all of that to God. Job stayed in relationship. Job
kept his eyes on God through it all. At the beginning of that, it says, "Even amongst
this Job chose not to sin." He never dishonored God. Even when his wife said, "Curse God and die."
He was like, "No. Even if God takes everything away from me, or if He blesses me,
my eyes are going to remain on him." For me, that's the deeper theological reason of why God
allows bad things to happen is because I do believe that God's eyes are going back and forth in the
world like He tells us. He's looking for that one man or that one woman who sold out to Him,
that they can be exposed to some of the darkest and deepest evil, and yet they're not wavered.
Their eyes don't leave Him and say before Satan, say, "Look at my child. I allowed you," as you say,
God never causes that, but I allowed this. I allowed you access. I allowed you to do this to my child,
and look what they chose to do. They continually looked at me. They continually found their strength.
And even when I refuse to answer the why, they still said, "I'm holding on to you." And that's
really been the difference in my life. As I look at some of the men that I have counseled who've been
kind of hurt or hurt through the same man, it's kind of that same thing. I see their life. I see
such brokenness and so different. And what I see are men that refuse to trust God in this. And I think
oftentimes, I'm like, "Why am I so different?" I came from the same type of family. I was abused the
same way. Why am I different? What's the different component in my life, in my story, than theirs? And I
think, and it has nothing to do with me. It's a gift, or at least I think God has allowed me. My
eyes have just been able to look at Him and say, "God, it doesn't make sense. That was hard. That was
scary, but my eyes are still looking to you. Looking to you to help me make sense of this. Looking for
you to keep your promise that you're going to make something good out of this one day. I really think
that's the difference for me." The next question is going to seem really strange. But I know that there
are a lot of people, a lot of dads who have suffered abuse. And this question is lurks somewhere
in the back of their mind. But as an adult, did you ever feel in your mind that you were making a big
deal out of your childhood abuse than it really was? Did you ever feel maybe a sort of guilt or feel
like in some way it was your fault or that maybe you might have been making some part of it up or you
have a detail fuzzy here or there? Did that ever cross your mind? I'm glad you asked this question,
because as I was confronted with these memories and what do I do with them? I always felt like I had
to prove to other people. And I felt like maybe I am making a big deal about this. Maybe I didn't
see it the way it really happened. Maybe I've manufactured some of these feelings. So I think it's a
super important question for those guys because as God, if there are other men that have been abused,
they have to wrestle with this question. So it's I think it's a paramount question in the process
of healing. But for me, it's a strong yes and a no. I never thought I was making a big deal of the
abuse. I never really had to deal with that. I always instead I avoided it. I felt that somehow I
must have misunderstood my abusers intentions. I must have invited this somehow and here's where it
gets really until you understand the psychology of being groomed and abused. I must have invited
this because I loved this man and I kept going back when I could have said no. And that's a really
hard thing to explain to people. He wasn't my dad. He wasn't my caretaker. I could have just said,
I don't want to go to church anymore. I wasn't a part of a family where church was part of our life.
That was just me. That was my thing. And I feel like I gave him access to me. I allowed him to spend
time with me. I have so many times said, I actually loved this man who hurt me. And that's a hard
thing to wrestle with. How do you love somebody that's abused you? What he did for me in so many
areas of my life, he enriched my life. He expanded my understanding of how the world works.
He took me places as a poor kid that my parents never could have taken me. He I was important to him.
I went on trips. We hunted, we fished, we hiked, we traveled to places that my parents never could
have taken us. And what I realized is those daytime hours spent with him shaped many good parts of my
life. But the nighttime hours is where the abuse happened. And I suppressed and refused to believe
that he hurt me. And that was a hard thing to really wrestle with. How do you love your abuser? And
there's some psychological reasons for that. And there's an explanation for that. But that's really what
I worked through. And I say yes, too, because I hate seeing the damage that this is causing even his
family and his children. And on so many people that he ministered to, I see lives being just crushed
because of his sin. And so I wear that weight of, what is it necessary for me to say something?
Was it necessary for me to let this come into the light? Why didn't I just continue to just let it be?
And what changed everything for me was two things. And they were very important for me. The first
one was hearing that this man had groomed several other boys at the same age that he groomed me.
And these men's lives have been destroyed. And when that was shared with me,
that's when all the memories were triggered. That's when the sleepless nights came. That's when
the nightmares came. That's when that's when I was sort of having to go back into what happened to
me as a child, all those feelings that I have ignored and suppressed. And the second thing that was
so helpful is my wife, she said to me one day, she said, Dennis, this didn't happen to you, the strong,
loving, and more than capable man who can protect himself in those he loves. This happened to an
eight-year-old boy. And you have to stand up and you have to protect and have give a voice to that eight-year-old
boy for the sake of the other eight-year-old boy, so that this is happening to those things help me
to put in perspective what happened. Who did it and whose fault this was? It wasn't that little eight-year-old
boy's fault. It was the abuser who knew exactly what he was doing. So that's definitely something I've
had to wrestle with and other people coming out of that that trauma. They're going to have to because
I think the enemy and the world may not understand it and they're going to sort of push that question
to you and you're going to feel that that question whether they ask it or not, you're going to feel
like it's right there on the surface. They want to know, how did you allow this to happen? And that's
a tough thing to answer, but it's important. You started King Me Ministries. Tell us about it.
Talk a little bit about God's purpose for dads. Yeah, so I remember sitting in bed one night and
having just finished ministry and thinking maybe God's finished with me and I woke up in the middle
of the night and it literally just felt like God said, King Me Ministries and trying to process,
well, what do you mean by that? What is where is that? And quickly realize that if you've ever
played checkers, the whole point of playing checkers is you take your little pieces and you march
them down to the end of the board, your opponent side of the board and you hope to get to that one spot
where you look at them and you say, King Me and they have to put that second piece on top and that
second piece symbolizes your ability to move in any direction. You can do what you couldn't do before
you arrived at that point and King Me Ministries is just that. It's dads who look at their sons
and they say, "Ah, I have intentionally raised you to be a man and you have arrived and let me
let me king you. Let me now enable you to move in any direction that you need to. Let me make you
a force on this field that you're playing in this life." And so King Me aims to celebrate men and
dads who get it right. They know how to intentionally raise their kids in a fear and then the love of God
and we know that there are some men who want to do it right. They just don't have the tools. They
don't have the know how. And so we want to come alongside them and equip them with what it takes
to be a good dad. And of course the third component of that is there are some boys that will never have a
dad and we want to step in the gap there and provide what those fathers have not. The absence of those
fathers have not. And what we're working to do even as we speak today is we're trying to build a
three phase program working with dads and their sons. And the idea of phase one is to take boys at
a ten year old and you take them and their dad and you give them a weekend away, four days away
and it's just filled with adventure. In that first phase it's an invitation from a dad to a son
to enter into this journey from this day until you're eighteen where hopefully at the culmination
of this program we are going to just celebrate your arrival into manhood. And phase two is just kind
of a checkup four day adventure where 15 year olds and their dad the same dads hopefully
and boys they come back a few years later and it's just a check in another weekend of adventure where
they're kind of spoken into and equipped to strengthen their own relationship and ultimately
phase three is where the father is going to stand before their son in this third time away. And
they're just going to just sort of commemorate their arrival for a for a father to look over into
his son's eyes and say son you have intentionally entered into this journey of becoming a man.
You and I have worked through these these things that we think are important and and and
identify you as a man and I want you to know that you've done everything needed to arrive at this
point and I just want to celebrate your arrival into manhood. How can dads connect with you for
help or questions or find out more about what you're doing? Yeah the best way is to go on our website
kingmeanministries.com they can email me my email is going to be on that website you can reach out to me
we could I'd love to share our story see how we can partner see how we can come alongside these
men and really equip them to be one God meant when he decided to make man. And just to make it easier if
you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com if you go to this episode look
right below the episode description and I will have all of the links posted there for your convenience.
And Dennis as we close talk to that dad who's gone through a similar experience how do they heal?
First let me say this if this has happened to you or if this has happened to one of your children
it's not your fault I think God wants you to hear that I think that's the starting block of healing.
You didn't deserve this you didn't cause this what happened to you was pure evil and though you
may not see it God is a just God and he will one day put an end to all this evil and there will be
justice trust him he's not a reflection of your views. He is God and he will have the last word
and I share a quick story and I shared this with you prior to being on air when I was 10 years old
I was playing hide and seek and sat behind this this this lie like bush and this property marker
just the metal rod went right into my leg about two inches go to the doctor the doctor so's it up
a couple weeks later it's infected and my mom takes me back to the doctor the doctor says this is a
pretty big deal and he decides that he was going to lance it and he would require that my mom would
stick these long you know q tips into my leg the wound in my leg and it would allow it to heal
from the inside out and what happened as it healed and healed and healed the last bit my mom found
some fabric that was part of the pants that I was wearing and that was trapped inside me
and my leg couldn't function the way it was supposed to be because of this thing that was this
foreign object that was there and I look at that story of what happened and it's the exact same
thing that I feel God has done with me God brought me back into this wound not to leave me there
not to make fun of me not to make me feel less than he took me back into this so that he by his grace
and because he loves me because he's for me he wanted to heal this wound from the inside out
and and God wants to do the exact same thing with you he's looking for men that are going to trust him
to take us back into those those deep dark wounds and allow God even though it's a tough process
in a hard process he wants to heal us to the point where I've often said do you have a scam or do
you have a scar if you have a scab in your life things will poke at it and things it'll catch on
things and it'll rip back open or you have a scar that's just a reminder at one time you got hurt
and God wants to take that scab that wound that keeps opening and you keep bumping into it he wants
to heal it in such a way that all you're going to see for the rest of your life is the scar
the reminder that it happened but it's healed and it's a story and God has been good through that
and so that's really what I want other men to know this has happened to you there's help out there
and more importantly than that God is the one that's going to hold us straight healing and he wants
to do that because he loves you Dennis thanks again for being on the father of your challenge
that's been a pleasure thank you man God continue to bless all you're doing in his name
thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge if you would like to contact us
listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the fatherhood challenge please visit the fatherhoodchallenge.com that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com
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Have you ever wondered what the secret is to raising confident resilient kids who are achievers? How would you create a parenting plan to accomplish this? I have an expert here in this episode who has written a book on this topic and he will share some tips with us.
My guest is the author of 4 books including the one we are here to talk about: Four Lessons from My Three Sons, How You Can Raise Resilient Kids. Jeff Nelligan explains how his parenting techniques helped propel his sons to the U.S. Naval Academy, Williams College and West Point and beyond.
To get Jeff Nelligan's books, learn more or connect visit:
Web: https://www.nelliganbooks.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JeffNelliganBooks
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ResilientSons
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nelligan_books/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-nelligan-8277654/
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcript - A Dad's Guide to Raising Strong Kids
Have you ever wondered what the secret is to raising confident resilient kids who are
achievers?
How would you create a parenting plan to accomplish this?
I have an expert here with me who has written a book on this topic and he will share some
tips with us in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is an author of four books, including the one that we're here to talk about, four
lessons from my three sons, how you can raise resilient kids.
This book explains how the author's parenting techniques helped to propel his sons into
the US Naval Academy, Williams College and West Point and beyond.
Jeff, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Hey Jonathan, it's a privilege to be with you, my friend.
I have to know what is your favorite dad joke?
My five year old kid is checking in at a lacrosse camp.
He's in a line with kids and he gets to the front.
They're getting the vital information for each kid.
The guy says, what's your address and then he says, when is your birthday?
And my kid looks at him and he says, every year.
That is awesome.
Thank you my man.
Well let's jump right into it.
There is a lot of information in your book.
I also know that you've had an amazing career with adventures that many could only dream
of.
How did this journey happen?
Well Jonathan, you know, every, every dad and they're all listening to this, you know,
they see the progression of their kids from the time three hours after they're born and
they're holding them all the way to two to four to six to sixteen.
And I was on that progression.
And when the last kid left for college, the last kid went to West Point and I dropped them
off at West Point and I had driven home and I was sitting outside in my backyard and my
first thought was, now what am I going to do?
Because here to four, I'd had all these days and weekends full of things to do with my
sons, athletic events, school events, just horse and around and suddenly there was nobody.
And so I'm sitting out there, I thought, well, you know, these guys have kind of performed,
you know, pretty well.
The eldest went to Williams College and then went to the Navy, Officer Canada School, middle
kid, had just finished at the Naval Academy and then this kid was up there at West Point
for a summer of getting beat down.
And I thought, now what can I, what are the lessons to be learned from this?
Literally the lessons and I thought, I have four lessons here on how these kids were raised
and I'm going to put them in book form and it's going to be short and hard and fast and
funny.
And that's how the book evolved and eventually, you know, was published and came out and it's
40 minutes, a 40 minute read, it's not some coffee table anchor, you know, 350 pages of gibberish.
But the genesis was, I've got these kids, they're all gone now.
What did I learn?
What did we learn?
As a dad, what are some of your biggest wins or successes with your kids?
And what are you the most proud of?
Oh, great question again, you know, all dads have that question at some point.
The biggest success is that today they're all satisfied and yesterday they were all satisfied
and when they were 14, they were satisfied.
These were kids who there wasn't a lot of anxiety or worry.
They undertook things pretty diligently and mostly succeeded and that's the long game
in parenting, you know, a kid that along the stage of his life is satisfied, is joyful,
you know, spiritually happy, accomplished.
So it's the success is having that kid who over that long game, that long period of time
is a pretty good, natured, confident, easygoing child.
And then of course, adolescent and then young man or young woman.
The kid has a sense of his place or her place in the world that there's just a rock solid
presence that they maintain, whether they're around their peers, their parents, strangers,
adults, whomever, and it goes to the confidence angle as well too.
That life seems to flow along for that kid in that, you know, very easygoing fashion and
that ups and downs and everyone hits a wall in life, all kids hit it, some kids hit it more
frequently than others.
But that whatever adversity or obstacle comes that they can get over it or get around
it and absorb it, I used to have, I had this drill sergeant when I was in the army, big,
just a tough guy, from whom I learned a ton about life.
And he would always say to us, wherever we were on our infantry training, he would say,
assess, adapt, advance.
And so we learned that.
It became part of a reflex action for all of us soldiers.
That's the mindset I tried to build in.
I worked on building into the kids so that they had that presence of mind that they could
meet any challenge.
And even if they got 90% down the field, 90 yard down the field, felt calm and confident
in addressing it.
There are two components to every man that makes a man stable.
One is knowing his identity and the other one is knowing his purpose and the identity is
broken up into two components.
One is a generational component, knowing who you are from a standpoint of where you come
from, like your dad, your grandfather, your great grandfather, what were their struggles?
Is there alcoholism in the family?
Generationally.
And is that what you're up against?
Knowing things like that, having information like that that is part of your identity.
Because if you know this information and you know it's potentially, it could be potentially
in front of you, maybe immediately in front of you or maybe at some point, you are prepared.
You can prepare yourself and do something about it before it becomes a problem.
The other side of you is your spiritual identity.
And that is a huge part of your makeup of what makes you who you are.
So that's why I found your point in the very beginning about knowing themselves spiritually
why that was so important.
Yes.
And I add to that Jonathan, one of your earlier podcasts, you made this great point and you
just made it again.
You were talking about a train and the generational identity and you're in the engine and the
rest of your generations behind you and those trains that are, that you're dragging along
with you.
That generational identity is so key because you do learn things intuitively and materially
from your fathers, your moms, your grandmothers, your grandfathers.
You know, I'm always perplexed today about hearing about kids who are, you know, stressed
out or who are uncertain and anxious, you know, my dad at 15 years of age was working in a
vanadium mine, a mile beneath the surface of the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
At 18, he participated in the invasion of Okinawa, one of the biggest battles of World War
2.
At 19, he was patrolling the streets of Tokyo as part of the occupation force.
He came home in 1946, having not seen his family in a year and had to take care of his parents
for four years and ultimately made it to Los Angeles and was the oldest member of his graduating
class at UCLA.
His father never made it past seventh grade.
So we're talking about strong, strong men here and my mom's experience was pretty much the
same.
There's a whole generation of people like that and my dad's story is hardly remarkable for
that fact.
But that's that train, that's in that car that's right behind me, what my dad did and my
mom did.
So knowing that, you know, you're able to kind of coalesce around the things that made them
strong and then you try to instill it in your kids.
This gets into something we're going to talk about a little bit later on in this conversation,
which is leaving a lasting legacy.
I think that's powerful, but you just dropped a really big hint to that.
So the next question can be a very uncomfortable one, but I would encourage dads listening to
answer this question for yourself and not to be scared of it because if you dive head
first into this next question, it will make you a stronger, powerful dad.
Now, question is, what are some of your biggest regrets or mistakes that you've made as a dad?
And what did you learn from them and how did they help you grow?
Certainly.
And you know, you got to acknowledge, you know, you got to good and bad.
I said it earlier, no one gets a free ride.
You know, I was never a perfect dad.
There's no such thing as a perfect dad, just like there's no such thing as a perfect
kid.
My biggest mistake, and maybe it's universal in fatherhood is that I thought that I knew
my kids pretty well, but there were times that I did not.
And in fact, in the book, four lessons from my three sons, there are at least five or six
examples self-deprecating of when I made a mistake with my kids.
And I was ashamed or humiliated.
And it was the kid that was set me right.
I mean, one of the stories is I was riding this kid, the eldest kid, to run for the student
body position at his school.
And I kept riding him and riding him.
And he's, you know, finally one night when I was still nagging him, he turns to me and he says,
"Dad, I know what I'm doing here."
And it was a shock.
And I said, "How?"
You know, you do.
Because you just came back at me pretty hard.
And that's the way it's got to be sometimes.
The dad's got to take that correction and the humiliation, I guess, that goes along with
it.
And say, "Wow, the kid is right.
I don't know at all."
And, you know, anyone who's vain enough to write a book about, you know, his parenting techniques
is also got to be strong enough to take the heat when he's wrong.
Were you a little bit proud of his answer, even a little bit?
No, not really at the time.
I just shut up.
I thought, "Well, you know, you're making a big mistake here because the kid was, you know,
good on his feet.
He's a popular kid at school.
He was an athlete.
He was, you know, a pretty sharp kid."
Now, I thought, "Man, you're blowing this opportunity."
But, you know, if you're, you know, any adults got to know when to say, "Hey, you know, I'm
in the wrong here."
And it probably an hour later, I was thinking, "Okay, you know, I got a back off on this because
the kid knows what he's doing."
And there's, like in the last sections of the book, I'm taking, you know, we're, where
we live in Washington, D.C. and in Bethesda, there are massive office buildings all over the
place in D.C.
You know, and then right across the river in Virginia throughout Montgomery County, where
we lived, you know, office park, sometimes just five or six stories, D.C., 13 stories all
over the place.
We've been in New York, et cetera.
And, you know, these big monster buildings and their full of steel and glass and they're
just absolutely soulless.
And I wanted to make a point to them and I said, "Hey, man, hey guys, you know, we're driving
around past all these office buildings.
Let me tell you about them."
I said, "And every one of them, there's a guy sitting in an office and on the wall, he's
got a picture of his family and on his desk, he's got a mug like you made me in second grade."
And he's staring at a computer screen because this guy sitting there was going to be, he was
going to be somebody, he was going to be a jet pilot or he was going to be in real estate,
he was going to own his own business, he was going to sail around the world.
He was, you know, going to fix cars and be a, you know, a star at that.
Instead, he's sitting there staring at a computer saying, "What the hell am I doing here?"
And I said, "Guys, you don't want to be like that guy because that guy's your dad."
And you have got to get farther than your old man did.
They were kind of shocked and I said, "Hey, it's the truth, man."
You know, you've got to get farther than that.
Staring at a screen, you know, sending emails, getting on Zoom calls, you know, all of that
jive, you have got to have the, the, the, the farthest landscape in a rise and you can possibly
dream of.
But I want to come back to that question that I was hinting at earlier.
Every dad I know wants to leave a positive legacy behind that will last for generations.
What is the secret to making that happen?
I think you've got to build kids, you know, just like the, the themes in the book.
I think, you know, the most important trait a kid can have is that confidence in being
in the real world.
And that let that confidence leads to accomplishments because a kid that can walk through the world and
and take the pain and achieve the successes, that becomes a habit.
It becomes a reflex for every aspect of their life.
And as they grow older, you know, the accomplishments, the achievements just grow in size and in
magnitude.
A kid can have a good lacrosse game in age six.
And then he's in college and he has the same kind of game.
And he says, I know where this started.
It started when I was six years old.
So that's, that's a legacy, even for a kid over the course of 15 years.
When I think what you're talking about is a dad who is holding that kid, you know, at three
hours and says, what is this kid going to be?
You know, a dad.
Yeah.
He holds that kid and then and that's part of the, that's the central theme of the book
really is holding that kid at three hours old and saying, I've got a strategy to make this
kid realize the potential that he has because I'm old fashioned.
Every kid has potential in one thing, maybe several.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's absolutely true.
Whenever I am my parenting journey, I'm always aware that the things that I'm teaching
them, regardless of what age they happen to be, those lessons are going to last and are
supposed to last long after I'm gone.
Oh, yeah.
You are programming genetics in the way you raise them.
So that is, there's multiple components to leaving a legacy.
But it just when you have that on your, on the front of your mind, it makes you very mindful
about the decisions that you make with your kids, what you're teaching them, the values,
the values you live yourself by your examples sometimes are the most powerful teacher to
your kids.
Correct.
Again, why is Jonathan, they are values are essential because they affect every aspect
of your life.
Now, let's really get to the pinpoint of your book and that is resiliency.
How do you teach your kids to be resilient in the face of failure?
That's where the strategy comes in.
They kind of bounces back to your earlier question, Jonathan, when you're talking about legacy
because in kids, you know, long, you, and you use the words long after you're gone.
Most kids and most parents don't know this, but by 12 and a half to 13 years of age, that
parent has spent the bulk of the time.
They're going to spend with their child in their life.
Because after that, the kid moves on and has many more actions with peers and, and strangers
and the institutions in which they find themselves.
So my, my shot at teaching resilience began really early and the best way to build resilience
is to put them in situations in that real world where after 13 years old, they're going
to spend the bulk of their life without you.
And if the, putting them in that real world, and I mean the, the world that's outside the
front door, you know, the, the school, the malls, the athletic fields, the hardware store,
you know, different kinds of places in the community in the neighborhood.
I gave them tests.
Probably the first one was we were in an indoor mall.
Eldest kid was seven, the youngest kid was about four and a half and I pulled out of my wallet,
three, five dollar bills and I said, hey guys, I gave five to each kid and I said, go get
the old man change.
This is not a race.
You can go wherever you want.
I'll keep an eye on you, but you got to get changed.
And I'll see you back here.
And so off they went, they were kind of, they were kind of fired up because it was a task.
It was kind of something exciting.
And you know, two, two of the kids struck out at the first place they went and then they
all came, one kid came back with 20 quarters and, but the idea was they had to go on their
own and mix it up with whoever stranger was at a cash register to get the change.
And we did this a lot in all different kinds of places.
And then of course the tasks began to accelerate and graduate into tougher instances.
Hey kid, you know, here's a $20 bill, go into that sketchy 7/11 over there and get me
gatorade and Doritos and donuts and bring them back to the car.
And then it is, we're at a restaurant and I point at one kid who's, you know, six years
old and I say, you memorize the old man.
The order we're going to, of what we want and you tell the waiter or the waitress everything
for all of us that are sitting here.
And then it's, here's my ATM card, go get the old man, $300, here's my passcode.
And then we're at an airport and I say, here's the material, go get us boarding passes.
So every challenge, you know, increased in kind of volume and intensity.
So that by the time these guys are eight or nine years old, they're fine in the real world.
They'll go off on their own and get what needs to be done.
But it also helps just in their regular interactions at school and after school, they have the confidence
to undertake anything.
And I think that's the beginning of building that resilience because they become accustomed
to doing things that no other kid at age seven is ever going to do.
Now let's talk about negative influences.
How did you teach your kids to avoid negative influences from their peers?
Oh, that's easy.
I completely, almost cut my kids off from social media.
I think the most negative influence in this country today and it's been, it's been documented
by much smarter people than me.
Dr. Jonathan Haye, the NYU and Dr. Jean Twenge at San Diego State University.
I mean, we reached a point where school systems are saying you can't bring phones to school
or the TikTok or that even Facebook admits, Zuckerberg, the social media avalanche has had
a negative effect on kids.
I sought early on because it was easy to see a kid looking at a screen becomes a zombie.
And the actual, you know, statistical evidence is so there.
An average kid today spends eight hours and 49 minutes a day on a screen, a cell phone or
an iPad.
And that's outside of school work.
And an average boy between ages of 10 and 18, if you took them all and took all the time they
spent on video games, Minecraft, Call of Duty, cod is around two hours and 14 minutes.
There's no reasonable person that can tell me that nine hours or two and a half hours looking
at a screen is healthy, particularly with, you know, the sewage is on the interweb.
So we, you know, the negative influences come all from the screen.
My kids didn't get phones until they were at the end of 11th grade.
And then I had a bet with them.
I said, look, whoever brings home a phone with the least power used gets a couple bucks every
day.
Oh, that's awesome.
There was no use of screens except for homework.
And they were limited to one hour a day, one hour a week with video games and we, they
could only be on weekends.
And of course, they weren't even around on weekends.
They were constantly out about doing stuff, mostly athletic stuff.
So the negative influences, I think, pretty much come from just that addiction, that zombification
of, you know, social media in general.
And my kids today, you know, they don't even have Facebook pages.
You know, I mean, they're just not on.
They don't, they don't have any of the apps or anything like that.
How can dads listening connect with you?
How can they get your book or find out more about what you're doing?
Certainly.
My website is www.nelliganbooks.com.
That has the books on it.
The one you, we've been speaking of four lessons from my three sons as well.
It has a book that I wrote a year and a half ago called Your Kids Rebound from Pandemic Lockdowns,
a parent guide to restoring their family.
I wrote this book after the, you know, during or after COVID and it is massively cited, 250
sides to medical, psychological, national survey data on what lockdowns, isolation, confinement
and no school did to kids and it provides a way forward for how parents can reverse that
damage and get the kid back that they, that they want.
And I will say the first chapter of it is the screens, you know, the glowing rectangle
that focuses on all what happened with kids on screens, the acceleration of use of them.
And then the fourth chapter gives parents an idea of how that can be rectified.
And my Twitter handle is @ResilientSons.
My Instagram is "Nelligan_Books" and my Facebook is Jeff Nelligan Books.
I'm going to make it easier to find all of the links that Jeff just mentioned.
So if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com, go to this
episode and look right below the episode description.
I'm going to have all of the links posted there for your convenience.
Jeff, we close.
What is your challenge to dad's listening now?
Get that phone out of that kid's hand and say, "Hey, we're going to sit down and we're
going to regulate what you see."
And if it means, you know, taking the phone away from you for days on end, so be it.
If it means cutting off the routers in the house, so be it.
If it means blocking massive numbers of sites from the home computers and your phone, that's
what it's going to be.
So that's a piece of practical advice.
The second thing is, and this is what I did with all three of my sons, beginning when
they're about five years old.
I'm still doing it today.
Every Saturday, I take a kid down to the most peaceful place on the planet and it is the
high school bleachers on a Saturday morning.
And we sit in those bleachers and I'd say, "Okay, what's going on, bro?
Tell me what's hot, what's not, what happened this week, what's your challenges, what have
been your successes."
And this became a routine, again, the reflex.
We would sit there and we'd have half an hour hour talk about just what's going on.
And then we'd go home and begin the weekend chores, the weekend games, everything else.
I started this all three kids.
They knew on a Saturday, if it was their Saturday, "Hey, you've got to talk to the old man
here for an hour about what's going on."
And it still goes on.
My kids were home, all three of them were together for the first time in five years on Christmas.
And the reason being, because of military deployments all over the world, always interrupted
everyone being home at once.
And where does the middle kid and I go on a Saturday morning?
We go right down to the high school bleachers, it's 35 degrees outside, it's freezing.
And we just talked for about 45 minutes about what's been going on since we saw each other
last.
And that's my second piece of advice, again, practical advice to meet, as you say, that
Fatherhood Challenge.
Dads get the book.
We really did not come close to covering, probably even a quarter of what's in the book.
So get the book and read it cover to cover.
And Jeff, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge and sharing all of this
wisdom with us.
Hey, my pleasure and privilege, Jonathan.
Thanks, man.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in
this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge, please visit
thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com
[MUSIC]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
As fathers, it is our responsibility to navigate the complexities of the modern world and safeguard our children from harmful spiritual influences. The rise of new age philosophies and practices can be enticing, but they often lead our children down a perilous path, veering them away from the truth and into dangerous spiritual territory. In this episode we empower fathers to protect their children from the demonic influences of new age ideas.
My guest is Dr. Roger Krickler. Dr Krickler is a retired engineer with 43 years of military and defense contractor experience. His expertise was in ground-to-air Soviet missile defense systems, electronic warfare, radar and training fighter pilots how to defend against soviet air defense systems. Upon coming home from his deployment to Egypt and meeting Jesus, he started going to church. There he had his first experience helping with casting out demons. His experience and expertise on both conventional and spiritual warfare are why I’ve brought Dr Krickler on the program.
You can find Dr. Krickler here:
Website: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2276667
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556040728522
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3DRj7jSapwYHXNJAcAzPNN
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RogerKrickler
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcript - Dads Demons and Bad Spirits
As fathers, it is our responsibility to navigate the complexities of the modern world and safeguard
our children from harmful spiritual influences. New age philosophies and practices can be enticing.
They often lead our children down a perilous path, veering them away from the truth and into
dangerous spiritual territory. In this episode, we empower fathers to protect their children
from demonic influences of new age ideas. I will be introducing an expert on spiritual warfare
in just a moment so don't go anywhere. Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken
and inspire fathers everywhere to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand
how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their families environment. Now here's
your host, Jonathan Guerrero. Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Dr.
Roger Crickler. Dr. Crickler is a retired engineer with 43 years of military and defense contractor
experience. His expertise was in ground to air Soviet missile defense systems, electrical warfare,
radar and training fighter pilots, how to defend against Soviet air defense systems. Upon coming
home from his deployment to Egypt and meeting Jesus, he started going to church. There he had his
first experience with helping cast out demons. His experience and expertise on both conventional
and spiritual warfare are why I have brought Dr. Crickler on the program. Dr. Crickler, welcome to the
Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you, Jonathan. I think it's an opportunity for me to be with you today
and I sure do thank you for it. Please start by sharing your story of how you got involved in spiritual
warfare. Okay, I'd be glad to. It actually started in 1984. I took an assignment after a divorce in
1983 to Cairo, Egypt and I met a man John Wade. He was a Christian and we began a friendship and over
several months we talked about Jesus and he explained the good news story to me. And after a few months,
I turned my life over to the Lord. And as I read the New Testament and I tell you what an experience
for someone that just learning about Jesus and never really grew up in the church, it really brought
the Bible to life. As an engineer, I was always fascinated by how long a Sabbath day was for not growing
up in the church. That was something brand new to me and helping with casting out demons. That was an
experience. And I can tell you like it was a second ago that during the casting out of the demon,
it was a young girl. We bound her to a card table chair so she couldn't move around the room.
Not any constraints, but just spiritually binding her to the chair. And I tell you,
being brand new, I had two things going on in me at the same time. One, I was fully engaged and
you know, casting out the demons, but then a part of me was almost like an out-of-body experience
floating above me, looking down, going, is this really happening? You know, and then
instantly I went right back and engaged in the battle against the spirit of suicide and the spirit
of depression is what she had. But it was quite the experience for a technical guy that now is
you know, involved with the spiritual aspect of life. It was truly eye-opening and then after that,
I continued on with my study of spiritual warfare because God had called me into that,
even in Egypt, some of the prayer meetings or prayer sessions we had in the hotel rooms.
I just felt the calling way back then to get involved with this and it just happened to be my
training over my 43 years that God helped me with. That also complimented the spiritual warfare aspects
in trying to do what I do in my podcast, which is to try to take natural world experiences that
you can visualize, so you can try to get an idea of what's going on in the invisible war that we
can't see. And that's a little harder to fathom for some, so trying to make an association between
natural world and spiritual world is the goal of what I try to do in my teachings. The reason
that it's so important is because as we all know, we're made in God's image and God is a spirit and so
our actual beings have a spiritual component. Whether we wanted to or not, we have that spiritual
component. So we live in two worlds. We live in the natural world like you were saying, physical,
we can see it, taste it, all of our five senses, but we also live in the spiritual world. And that's
the harder part for people too, I think, understand and comprehend, but it's a part of something that we
had no control over. We were born, had no control over that, born in center, no control over that.
We were born into a war that started back in the Garden of Eden, right, with Adam and Eve and
Satan. That war has been going on and we were born into it and we had no control over it.
And so now we either have to learn how to fight or just continually get beat up. And so that's why
again, I'm so passionate about trying to teach people that there is a war that we do have weapons,
we can fight back. It's just a matter of learning how, just like when I went in the military,
I had to learn my weapons and when to use them, what kind of battle conditions to use what weapon
and the same in the spiritual warfare. We have a lot of weapons like binding and loosening and prayer
fasting, different weapons for different battle situations. And so my purpose is to try to teach
when to use what, basically, like I was taught when I was in the military.
So dads might definitely be able to relate to this one. So there's a term that's called,
the term is called strongholds. And strongholds, if I have to just shoot from the hip of association,
I would associate that with a home defense system. Does this also apply to spiritual warfare?
What would a spiritual stronghold be? And why would you why should dads be aware of them?
Well, I'm glad you said that because I happen to be on the safety team at church. So I'm involved
with weapons and have been all my life in my military career. So, but strongholds in a,
in the in spiritual warfare context is a belief that you hold on to so strong that no matter who comes
at you with a different belief, a belief system that you are not going to relinquish your belief in
that system, no matter how sound or logical it might be and it makes all kinds of sense in its rational
because you feel so strongly about a particular belief that you're just not going to give it up. And so
that's why it's so important when we start building our belief system as children,
there's a thing that I learned a long time ago about values, assumptions, beliefs, and expectations
that builds a child's reality map. So it starts at very young age. It's everything that they hear,
they teach, you know, they see, touch, smell, it all goes into the mind and it starts building a reality
map which also has a belief system. And so from there, a dad really needs to get involved very early
with what's being shown to taught and so forth to a child so that these, I come,
babes values, assumption, beliefs and expectations that they have some control over what is being taught
and shown to their kids because as these things grow over the years, if they're the wrong babes,
it is harder and harder to try to change that child's mind.
So what is the connection between, I think these might also be strong holes as well, but what is the
connection between meditation, yoga, video game characters like Enderman and Minecraft and also
the Ouija board? Why should dads be aware of these? Because these are games or exercises that people
think they're doing for the greater good on releasing relieving stress or video game, maybe it's
keeping your child entertained while you're doing something else, it all is going into the mind
where I said the battlefield is, like in a child's video games, they're drawn into a virtual world,
a virtual reality, right? These things that you can put on your face and get into a 3D virtual world,
they are a direct input into the mind. And if it's like a violent game, then violence is the thing
that's being entered into the mind. And so what a young mind can do is start to get the idea
that violence is okay, right? They can maybe identify with one of the characters in the video,
and we'll get into that maybe in a little bit, it's called, um, transference of spirits where
you try to emulate somebody that you admire. But the mind is where the battlefield is, and
with yoga, weegee boards, these are asking you as part of the game and part of the exercise to
open your mind, release your thoughts, you know, become empty. And when you do that, it's like opening
the gate for anything to come in. And if you're not as aware that evil thoughts and so forth can
enter through that, you're just opening it yourself up to attack. So it really sounds like there is
no such thing as a mind that just remains empty. And I know meditation a lot of times becomes all about
just emptying the mind, keeping the mind empty. But there really is no such thing. What is happening is
you're being asked to remove everything out of your mind so that something else can move in.
It never stays empty, which means, um, and you mentioned our mind is is the battlefield.
We were always meant and designed to live in this physical world and exist in this physical world
constantly with some sort of a spiritual connection that is conscious within our mind. And we get
a choice of what that is. Exactly. Um, to your point, I mean, when you, when you make a void, and
especially in the in the mind and in the spiritual world, when you create a void, then something's
going to fill it. And what you hope to do is fill it with something good and not something bad.
What should dads do if they suspect that their kids have opened a door to Satan or any demonic
influence, like weird things that are going on or, um, strange interactions? What should a dad do if
they think that's happening? That's a great question because it's kind of a two part, right? Because
there's believers and then there's non-believers. But so for the believer that are familiar with
spiritual warfare weapons, the first thing is to bind the strong man like we kind of alluded to before.
Um, saying something like in the name of Jesus, I bind Satan and influencing demons and those
that are misguided by evil spirits and thoughts from my son or daughter. So when you say that,
you're immediately saying in the name of Jesus, which is the power, and then you want to loosen
um, and post the angels around the child, which is filling that void. When you tell Satan to leave,
you've got to fill that void immediately. Otherwise, like in the Bible, it talks about the legions
of demons that came back and we are many. You know, you can cast them out, but if you don't fill up
the void, they can come back with even more. And now the problem is he can gotten worse, right?
So the power of binding and loosening is very important and setting down with your child and talking
to them about, you know, what they're doing and how they can be influenced and maybe trying to
substitute something that they're doing with something else that's actually more beneficial.
It might be a way, I think each dad has to, you know, obviously know his child and how to
pull something out and put something in its place. But I think the idea is that
you want to avoid meeting resistance so you don't yank something away with their saying,
no, give it back to me. You know, you try to replace it with something that's more beneficial.
So another thing that really to watch out for in this is a change of attitude and behavior in
the child and video games and opening up your mind and so forth. Dad's need to understand this and
I'll give you a great example of this. And so there was a youngest son was raised up to be part of
a closely knit family with good communication. He respected the parents rules and attended church
together. Suddenly he does not want to be with the family or attend church. He becomes sullen with
drawn rebellious. He defies your instructions and stays out late. You cannot understand the sudden
change. And then you try to wonder why because you have an older son, you gave them the same love
and they didn't rebel or do anything but yet this one is. So then you look at and say, well,
what's different? So what you might find most of the time is that if you examine the problem with
your son is that you will find that the change came about after someone else came into his life who
he respected it and admired. And this is what I was alluding to about in a video game. They see
a character in the video game and they say, oh, I want to be like that video game guy.
So but you can begin to respect and admire somebody else in your school or wherever it may be and they
begin to associate closely with that person. And then the new friend starts influencing the young
child by telling them what they do and how they think what their parents let them get away with
and so forth. And now the child wants to be more like the new friend and becomes rebellious to
the parent and that is a classic classic classic Satan tactic to attack children and it's called
the transference of spirits. So what I mean about transfer means to convey from one person to the other.
The word spirit is not used like a demon like you think evil spirits and you know that type of
thing. It's actually where spirits used here is a character or an attitude or a motive behind
an action. So that's what these new friends do. They try to sway the child to their way of thinking
which is usually down the wrong road and it's a way that Satan can attack because again the battlefields
in the mind and that's a classic way that Satan attacks young kids and really adults too. We've
been talking about Satan. We've been talking about demons and evil spirits. So let's let's talk about
the other side. Tell me about the Holy Spirit. What is his role in helping dads maintain spiritually
safe homes and how what can dads do to connect with the Holy Spirit? First of all the Holy Spirit is
part of the Trinity. There's the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit. And that the Holy Spirit, when I look
at the three functions of God, there's the Father, I look at Him as the planner. He plans things.
Jesus is the implementer. He puts things into effect and the Holy Spirit is the administrator. He's
making sure everything's getting done. He's making sure tasks get done and so forth. So
the Holy Spirit is the God that lives within you after you become a believer. You have to
have faith in Jesus. Believe they died paid for your sins and that he rose on the third day
and that you become a believer because at that point is when the Holy Spirit can come and live
within you because Jesus actually had to die on the cross and leave as part of God's plan to redeem
us. The Holy Spirit, He sent to be with us, to guide us, to teach us and to make
the words in the Bible mean something to us. He enlightens us with the words and the parables and
the different stories in the Bible because when you read them on the face of you, sometimes
times are confused, but the Holy Spirit over time, it's not like learning from a fire hose
but over time, He teaches you more and more about what God's words are. And for dads,
that's the first thing you have to do is get the Holy Spirit in you by converting and
becoming a believer because that's how you get the Holy Spirit and He is your power. Remember,
Jesus is the authority and the Holy Spirit is the power behind the weapons that you're going to
use not only in your own life but to intercede for your child, for your other family members,
for members of your church or whoever. We have the prayer of intercession which Jesus did a lot
in the Bible. So the Holy Spirit is a real entity. It's part of God. He lives in us and we need to turn
to God and have the Holy Spirit live within us. You mentioned enlightenment. Enlightenment is a
very popular reason behind why a lot of people get caught up in new age ideas and why they seek them
out. They're trying to find some sort of enlightenment. This also becomes a goal behind yoga and so many
other practices like that. But what's fascinating is you need all of these different things in the new
age idea and the new age philosophy to try to find enlightenment. There's all of these different paths.
There's all of these deities to enlightenment versus the Holy Spirit. And if you want enlightenment,
he is the source and there is no end with him. If you're a believer and know how to fight Satan,
then you have the Holy Spirit living in you and then you engage and keep battling Satan. Satan is
going to attack you 24/7. And if you don't know how to fight, then learn how to fight and battle back
because that's what God wants for us. He wants us to have a better life and he's giving us these tools.
We just have to learn how to use them, pick them up and use them. Otherwise, we can be drawn easily
because we do have the sinful nature in us to be drawn to some of these things like
yoga and video games and Ouija boards that seem on the surface. Come on, it's just a game. I can
it's no harm there. But you peel back that onion and you find out that no, it is or harmful and
you just have to be aware of that. And that's the whole idea of behind spiritual warfare and
learning about it. Yoga, for example, really masks and disguises itself as being a health benefit
and a lot of people, I mean, you can it's not hard to find people who report benefits from actually
doing yoga. But behind a lot of the poses, the poses are very, very intentional and they mimic,
they mimic and they're patterned after deities. And if you really delve into those deities,
the deities that you see and there's paintings of them, there's drawings of them everywhere and
there's actually even statues that have been created and carved the images of these deities and
these poses, which is where the poses come from. These deities actually have a source. The deities
are actually patterned after demons. After the image of actual demons, this is what's behind yoga.
And so you were just innocently in it for exercise and yeah, it can seem, it can seem very, very innocent.
But you can get the exact same benefit from that you get from yoga, you can actually get the
exact same benefit by doing exercise other ways, other ways that people have been doing for centuries.
I want to talk about spirit guides. Spirit guides are also fundamental to new age belief systems
and spiritual, spiritualism. Spirit guides, what they really are are demons.
You're communicating with spirit guides, you need to stop immediately what you're doing because
you are definitely absolutely communicating with demons. That's what you're doing. I'm just being
very blunt about it. So if that's what you're doing, you need to stop. You only need one spirit guide.
There's one true spirit guide and he's the Holy Spirit. He is all you need.
And so coming back to you, Dad, some talking to you, Dads, if you struggle with your role,
if you struggle with energy, if you're struggling with focus as a dad, if you're struggling
with work, life, balance, if you're struggling with how to parent your kids, if you have a teenager,
that you're struggling to connect with, if you're struggling with finances, any of these things,
it doesn't matter what it is, anxiety, talk, pray, talk to the Holy Spirit, talk to God, the Holy
Spirit is all you need. He is the ultimate spirit guide. He is the only, only spirit guide that you
will ever need. And he wants to be involved in every single aspect of your life. So let him in,
whatever you're struggling with, talk to him. And here's the cool thing. We just got through talking
about this actually before, before we did this episode. One of the cool things is if you don't know
what to say, if you're trying to pray, you're trying to talk to God or you're trying to say something
to the Holy Spirit and you don't really know what to do or what to say, there is a promise
that he is actually able to interpret what you were trying to say, what you want to say in your
mind, but you can't find the words for. He is so powerful that he can take those thoughts
and he can bring those thoughts all the way up to the Father and communicate them accurately
when you can't find the words. Dr. Kregler, how can dads get a hold of you with questions?
Listen to your podcast or find out what you're doing. Well, I just started my podcast about a month
and a half ago. So I'm on YouTube so you can search my name, Roger Crickler, K-R-I-C-K-L-E-R. I'm on
Spotify. Now these are videos because I do a video podcast on Spotify. It's Roger Crickler. And then
on my website on Buzzsprouts at Spirits, Weapons and Warfare, which is the name of my website.
And then I just recently started a Facebook page, Spirits, Weapons and Warfare. And on the Facebook page,
you can actually comment and write things and then we can direct message off of that if you want.
So those are some ways that you can reach out to me.
And just to make it easier if you go to thefatherheadchallenge.com, that's thefatherheadchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description. I'll have all of the links that Dr.
Crickler just mentioned. I'll have the links posted right below the description there for your convenience.
Dr. Crickler, before we go, we would like to say a prayer for both believers and non-believers who
are just looking for spiritual help and looking for guidance. They may be trapped. They may be looking for
answers, both for themselves, for their family, for their kids. And so I was wondering if you would
do the honors of closing us out with a prayer. Oh, thank you, Jonathan. I'd love to. So for the
believer, I pray that your warning efforts are successful, that you fight like your life depended
on it because it does know that the Holy Spirit lives in you and with him all things are possible.
You are a victor, not a victim in Jesus name. I pray, amen. And for my non-believers who are still made
in God's image for my lost brothers and sisters still trying to fill that void in your life with the
things of this world, which you'll never be satisfied. I pray you will turn towards the Lord.
What I can say is that this life is temporary so the things you strive for and desire now
are going to go away. You cannot want them bad enough to have them last forever. By the decisions
you make while you're on this side of death, you cannot, you can control where you will live forever.
It is my prayer that you will find the Lord and give your life and allegiance to Him.
You will never regret it. If you're ready now, you can repeat after me. You can whisper it or
shout it out, but it is as easy as ABC. First, admit you are a sinner. I am sorry for my sins and
turn away from sinning. Be believe that Jesus is God, Son, God, Son, and that He was sent here
to pay for your penalty for sin. See? Confess that by faith that Jesus Christ is my Savior and Lord.
So my primary purpose for you is not that you will be saved, although God's will is that no one should
perish. That's in 2nd Peter 3 9. Nor that your sins are forgiven because Jesus paid the price
on the cross. Rather, I pray for you, my lost brothers and sisters, that you should be free
from the demonic influences in your life so you can be saved. In Jesus name, I pray. Amen.
Dr. Krueger, thank you so much for that prayer and it's been an absolute honor to have you on
the Fatherhood Challenge. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you very much.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge. Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
Bye bye.
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There is a dark hidden global war that is being waged on families everywhere and it’s claiming lives every day. And dads are the gatekeepers and guards responsible for keeping their family safe. My guest talks about what this war is and how you can be aware and prepared.
Jared Haley is a pastor, and public speaker who believes God created the design for strong faith and healthy families. Serving in professional ministry for over 20 years with his Master’s Degree in Transformational Leadership and Spiritual Formation, Jared is passionate about investing in people, and helping them understand how God wired and designed them to live strong.
To connect with Jared Haley visit:
Web/Podcast: https://www.strongbydesignpodcast.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/strongbydesignpodcast/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@strongbydesignpodcast4492
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/strongbydesignpodcast
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcript: Warrior Fathers Confronting Spiritual Warfare
There's a dark hidden global war that is being waged on families everywhere and it's
claiming lives every day.
And dads are the gatekeepers and the guards responsible for keeping their family safe.
My guest is going to talk about what this war is and how you can be aware and prepared
in just a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to
take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers
are to the stability and culture of their families environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Jared Haley.
Jared is a pastor and a public speaker serving in professional ministry for over 20 years
with his master's degree in transformational leadership and spiritual formation.
Jared is passionate about investing in people and helping them understand how God wired and
designed them to live strong.
Jared, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Well, man, thank you so much for having me.
I'm very excited to be here and to just get to talk about this really, really important
topic with you.
Jared, I got to ask, what is your favorite dad joke?
Oh, man, that's a good one.
My son's already starting to yell at me when I pull these out because they come so naturally
you know?
But a really good one.
This just went off the top of my head is can I let me just tell you quickly a pizza joke.
Have you heard the pizza joke?
No, I haven't.
Never mind.
It's too cheesy.
That one definitely deserves a rem shot.
Jared, what is your story behind why you got into ministry and working with families?
Well, my original call to ministry was when I was in middle school.
There was I was at a camp up in Woodland Park, Colorado called Quaker Ridge and I remember
I can't tell you who the speaker was.
But we're having a night of, you know, what you do at camp, we're having a worship service
and there's something going along with with the worship music and just the spirit was
moving that that night.
And there was a minister, a minister, a missionary who was speaking and I like I said I don't
know who he was or where he was from, but I remember specifically God speaking to me saying
asking me to take my shoes off.
You know, take your shoes off for the place you're standing as holy ground which all the time
in scripture.
But and I remember thinking that's weird.
Like why would God ask me to do that?
I'm looking around no one else is doing it, but I said, okay, God, I will do it because
you're asking me to.
And it was through like that little act of obedience that then God spoke and said, I have a call
on your life and you are going to be doing ministry as well.
I didn't know what that meant or what that looked like at that moment, but I learned very
quickly where I wanted to go to school and that God wanted me to do ministry my whole life.
As far as getting into families, man, this is something that is really as our own family
has developed.
My wife and I just celebrated 15 years of marriage and we have four graduations.
Yeah, thank you so much.
It's it's a it's a big feat apparently in these days.
We always feel like, you know, we have our ups and her downs and our struggles and you know,
we had our load times for sure, but God has it has been faithful to us through it all.
And we're just getting to a place now that as we are cultivating a relationship with
Jesus within our own family and we look around and we see the world that we're living in.
We see this, this gap.
We see this something missing in families and I don't have all of the answers and I don't
pretend to have all of the answers, but that's that's what's so important to us is we want
to help people live what we like to call a spirit filled life, which means that we actually
have a relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit has been sent
to the earth to teach us to comfort us, to guide us, all of the things that we want in
our connection with God.
That's what the Holy Spirit does.
And we don't want that just as parents, but we want to include our children in that because
the whole idea is that we're raising our kids up, not just to do what we say, but to have
a relationship with Jesus themselves.
Now let's talk about this global war that we talked about in the intro.
What is spiritual warfare and how are families becoming ground zero?
Also what personal evidence do you have you seen of this?
There's an attack on the conservative family, right?
Or maybe not even conservative.
I'd say the traditional family, right?
Where we see this everywhere, even in its funny like in Disney, if you go and watch Disney
shows, you'll see that a lot of times it's a single parent where either mom or dad is
gone.
It's very unique anymore to see a mom and a dad and kids on a show.
And so it's something that that's the podcast that I represent and I'm part of is called
Strong by Design.
And Strong by Design is we've been created in God's image to have a strong mind, body, and
spirit.
The reality is is that because of sin and consequence, we become weak in all of those areas
of our lives.
And when we turn away from God's original design, which is, you know, we would define that
as sin.
When we turn away from God's design, we have to reap the consequences of that.
And so the only way to get back to living the right way is to get rid of that life, to
surrender our life to Jesus and to come back to that original design.
And when we look at how the structure of the family that was set up in scripture, we
see that God actually designed it to work a certain way.
And so obviously that's what the enemy wants to tear down and rip apart is this idea of
God's design.
Like that's what he's all about regardless.
The enemy has two goals.
The first goal is to keep you from knowing Jesus.
And if you know Jesus, his next goal is to keep you from being faithful to being part of
kingdom building, of building God's kingdom here on earth.
And so if you can rip a family apart, man, how much trauma does that cause for the rest
of your life?
That's pretty scary.
It's very scary.
And you see the statistics all over the place of, you know, if dad's not involved or if
mom's not involved or and there are obviously circumstances that you can avoid, right?
If someone passes unfortunately or if one of the parents are abusive, you need to get
out of those things.
However, it all boils down to this idea of destroying what we know as the traditional
family.
And I believe that God is calling us as believers to come back to those truths, to come
back to that design of what it means to be a family that follows after God.
How are fathers being caught or in some cases they are prime targets for the spiritual war?
Against popular belief in this day, men and women are different.
I don't know if you're aware of that or not, Jonathan, but God actually designed men
and women differently.
And the problem is is in our culture, it's been set up for us to think that that means
that one is better than the other.
And that's not at all.
Like one is not better than the other.
We're just different because God wired it that way.
God designed it that way.
And so the reason that dads in particular are being targeted is because God designed the
man to be the head of the household.
Now that doesn't mean that the man is designed to be authoritative and domineering and all
of those things that are unhealthy, but it does mean that God has designed for the husband
to be the head of the house just as Christ is the head of the church.
That's what Paul would say or did say in Scripture.
And so if the enemy through spiritual warfare, if he can rip apart a man, if he can degrade
him or if he can tempt him into sexual sin or if he can convince him that he's no good and
he should lose anything that he can do to deter the man from being to stepping in and
fulfilling that role in the home, he's going to do it.
And you alluded to spiritual warfare and spiritual warfare is basically everything that's going
on in the spiritual realm that we can't see, right?
We're almost in like a sub-reality of the true reality and we don't even know it.
And it's because there's so much that is going on outside of the physical world that we
don't, we can't see it unless God gives us a vision to see it.
And so recognizing that it's there and recognizing that the enemy is at work diligently trying
to destroy you and destroy your family calls us to action as men and really as women
as well, married couples and families to combat that in a way that is going to be effective.
One of the things I've observed and maybe it's just my own and maybe you see it differently,
but it seems like when I do a comparison between the two, between the attacks on women and
attacks on men in the home, women seem to be attacked very differently than men do.
So a majority of the women when Satan really decides he's going to attack, I would say a
majority of women are influenced and pulled away by new age influences and new age belief
systems.
And men are pulled away and attacked by a pornography.
But the result is the same and Satan is very efficient.
He doesn't have to necessarily go to individuals.
All he has to do is knock off the dad.
He can hit the dad hard enough. He has done with one job.
He has potentially damaged many generations.
Just hit the father.
Damage him so bad that becomes an absent parent, uninvolved, emotionally disconnected, whatever.
And he is messed up women and he's messed up men.
Yes.
It's funny because the two play on each other, right?
So men want respect and they want to be desired.
And women want to be beautiful and they want to be loved.
And so if the men aren't receiving that, that respect or that desire, then they start
to look for it somewhere else.
If the woman doesn't feel beautiful and adored, she starts to look for it somewhere else.
And it's like these two things that Satan sees that if he can mess with either one of them,
it really messes both of them up.
And it's just crazy how they play off of each other.
I see it all the time as well.
What are some of the sneaky and seemingly innocent ways that children are opening the doors
to the dark, spiritual or demonic forces and realms in their homes?
What are some examples that you've seen of this?
Man, they're all over the place.
I think technology is huge and allowing, I can't believe it always surprises me when I see
like a five or six year old walking around with a phone.
Like do you know how much corruption they can fall into just by having a device that's connected
to the internet?
Like it baffles my mind.
But that's a whole other, I mean, we could have a whole conversation on technology and
digital media and how to handle that as as a family unit.
But what we've been doing, it's really crazy that you bring this up because God's actually
been doing a huge thing just in our own family.
It's almost like a purging of our home.
I've been really big in harping on, we want our home to be a sanctuary, we want our home
to be a place that's holy and set apart, which means that it's a place that's safe from
the culture.
It means it's a place that is safe from the influences of anything outside of God's truth
and holiness.
And what that means is we have to be diligent in asking God what can stay and what can go.
We haven't told our kids what toys they can keep or what they need to get rid of.
But as we've engaged them in that conversation, our 12 year old son just through praying and
listening to God on his own came to his own conclusion that Pokemon wasn't something
that God wanted him to keep.
And so I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't get rid of Pokemon in your home, but I am
saying that the enemy will use anything he can to attach himself to your children.
And so if there are things that are going to be influencing them outside of following
Jesus, especially as their brains are developing and their thoughts are developing and their
behaviors are developing and their belief systems are morality are developing.
We want to be as parents and as fathers, diligent and paying attention to those things in the
way that they're influencing our kids.
So it's just in the recent, this last Halloween was the first Halloween that we didn't celebrate
as a family.
We've always dressed up.
We've always gone out and done the trick or treating thing.
And we've always spun it as we want to be a light in the darkness, which we do.
We want to be a light in the darkness.
We don't want to just abandon the world and go inside our homes and for the sake of protecting
ourselves.
That's not what we're trying to do.
What we're trying to do is say, God, how do I be a light in the darkness without allowing
the darkness to influence my home?
How can my home be set apart?
And so we didn't do Halloween this year, but instead we made cookies and we delivered them
to our neighbors.
And so we showed up to their house and they expected to give our kids candy.
And instead we were giving them something and saying, hey, we just want you to know that
we care about you and we wanted to bless you and return.
Thank you for loving our neighborhood.
You know, so it's finding these other ways that God can use you in these dark times and
order to bring light into that darkness.
And these things are difficult because there's nowhere in scripture that says, should your
child read Harry Potter?
You know, there's nothing in scripture that says, should your kids watch cartoons with
unicorns in them?
You know, and so we really have to be intentional to go to God and say and have a good enough
relationship with Jesus that we can actually ask him these questions and learn how to hear
his voice, learn how to hear the spirit speak to us so that we can take these things that
aren't so black and white and he can shed light on those things for us.
Yeah, I can think of one example.
There's one of the most popular video games that's been out there is Minecraft.
It seems like all the kids are into Minecraft.
And Minecraft seems very, very, very innocent.
I mean, it's a world and you can plant trees and you have these animals everywhere that
you can care for.
You have chickens and everything.
It's very much like in a lot of ways like our real world, you can build a cabin and just
kind of walk around and live and exist on this world.
Not for the fact that there's all these other characters that are in the game and these
are characters that God did not create such as zombies.
Right.
And there's another character that's in there and the characters call Enderman.
Right.
And what does Enderman sound like?
It sounds a lot like Slenderman.
And Slenderman, if you're not familiar with that, hopefully not too familiar with that,
Slenderman is a demonic character.
It is a being from demonic influence.
So Slenderman is a very evil demonic thing.
And so if you do the research and this is for you dads, like do the research on what your
kids are doing.
Don't just sit around and just be passive about it.
Get proactive.
What are they doing?
What are they involved with?
Do the research?
Because if you do the research on Enderman on that character, you will find that you
will find it is influenced by Slenderman.
And are these really the values that you want your kids doing?
So that conversation, I had that conversation with my own kids.
Yeah.
And they figured it is.
I mean, I feel and and that again, that's why I mean, we have these conversations and we
want to bring our, I mean, for us as our family, we want to bring our kids into that conversation
so that they understand that we're not just randomly taking things away from them, but
we're helping them understand why.
You know, we're helping them understand what's influencing us is important, right?
A glass can only spill what it contains.
So what am I putting inside my glass that's going to then be poured out of me?
I can, I don't want to be putting in evil stuff.
You know, I'm going to be putting in more, more good stuff.
And so you almost have to go through a morning process sometimes with some of these things
because until it's revealed to you that it's not okay, you almost fall in love with
these things, you know, but then when, when God asks you to give them up, there's just, there's
a period of morning and there's a period of loss saying, okay, that thing is gone, but the
turnaround is, look at what is so much better in my life with Jesus and what he has to offer.
My experience is that when God takes something away from you or takes it out of your life,
he always replaces it with something better.
He never just leaves a hole.
The other reality of why we're careful about, you know, the games that we play, the things
that we get involved with and such is that these things are potential gateways.
These are opening doors into the demonic spiritual realm and it is allowing opening doors, allowing
them access.
It's like signing a consent form that gives them permission to waltz into your world and
waltz into your into your life into all kinds of things.
It is not hard to find stories of people who have been caught in that and, you know, they've
had everything from they've seen apparitions.
They, you know, the whole scene of ghosts, things being messed with in their home, all this really
freaky stuff that's the things of your nightmares.
It all started innocently whether it was games or whether it was somebody else that they
were praying to that wasn't God or movies that they were watching music that they were
listening to it all started innocently and that's how Satan gets you.
These are the things that God is trying to protect you from.
Yeah.
And it's across the board, right?
I mean, it's things that you play with as far as your toys and things.
It's things that you're reading.
It's music that you're listening to.
I mean, there's so many different avenues that we need to be paying attention to and really
praying through is this glorifying God or is it not?
And that's kind of that's kind of the basis, you know, is this bringing glory to God?
Is this helping build his kingdom or is it not?
And that's that's kind of a tool that we use to measure a lot of times.
Is this worth it or is it not?
The other thing is, you know, when it comes to to what you occupy your mind with the Holy
Spirit is unimaginably huge.
And so why wouldn't you want to wake up every morning and invite him in every single day
to fill up your mind?
He will occupy every crevice.
He will give you the discernment when you're doing something that isn't good for you.
And if you learn to listen to him, he will walk you through those changes.
Yeah.
And it's something too that I like to tell people, my relationship with Jesus and the Holy
Spirit, it's not just him teaching me things that he doesn't want me to do anymore.
Like the real relationship with the Holy Spirit is him speaking into your life and bringing
you on an adventure of things he's actually asking you to do.
And that's when it gets a little bit more fun and a little bit more exciting because all
of a sudden he's telling you to speak to somebody or say something to somebody or pray for
somebody or whatever it might be.
And you're thinking, is that me?
Are you really asking me to do this?
That sounds crazy.
And you hear stories all the time of people being faithful to this weird thing.
I just saw a video yesterday about a pastor who someone showed up at his house in the Holy
Spirit told him to give him a blank check and then how God used that to like transform
his ministry.
I mean, it's just weird stuff like that.
My good story for me personally was before we had kids, my wife and I were working and
doing a young adult service.
And it was when I can't remember the year, but there's a big tsunami that hit somewhere
in Asia.
And my wife felt led to stand up and say, hey, we should collect money and send it over
to them for relief.
And so I'm like, yeah, it's a great idea.
And so we could do all this collection.
Well, we only had like $60 left in our bank account.
And we had about another week before we were going to get paid.
And Kristiana felt the spirit, speak to her and say, you need to give all of your money
to this fund.
And I remember afterwards she told me and I was, I was, I was like, what, you got to be kidding
me.
Like, we have no money.
You literally gave away all of our money.
We have no money to live on for the rest of the rest of the, like, what are we supposed
to do for the rest of this week?
We ended up, the other part of the story is that we were closing on our house the
next day as well.
And so then you have all of the added stresses of man, how much money do we actually have
to bring to closing and all of these different things?
Well we ended up going to the closing of our home and the people come in and they sit
down and we're getting ready to start signing papers and they say, hey, before we start,
we just need to disclose something to you and we're like, oh, great.
Now what?
And they said, in the middle of your loan process, we actually changed the type of loan
that we were giving you.
And we are required to disclose it within three days or get penalized and we're like, okay,
so how much more money do we owe you?
And they're like, no, no, no, no.
We're penalized and because we're penalized, we now owe you an extra $8,000 the government
is like, oh my goodness.
We literally, God just said, hey, thank you for being faithful.
Here's money, which ended up money that we got, we went, we didn't know the things that
you need when you buy a new home.
And so, we had to buy curtains and all of these different things that that money didn't
last as long as we thought it would.
But it's like God asked us to do crazy things that you would never do on your own and then
you faithfully do it and it's like, this is what it's about.
This is what, this is why having a relationship with God is so full of fun and joy and adventure.
God is very, very, very busy and if you are connected with Him and following Him and
listening to Him and obeying Him, you will be too.
And it will be an adventure and believe me, you will have fun.
It is, it is a lot of fun.
It is a lot of fun.
So I want to get into the next topic, which is how spiritual warfare is impacting marriages
and what can dads do to protect their marriages from attack?
Absolutely.
I did want to touch too, just with technology and kids and you talked about pornography
being an issue.
That's another reason to be aware of what your kids are doing online.
The average kid gets exposed to pornography now.
I think it's like age seven, which is just stupid young.
And so the same is true with dads, right?
Dads can be easily tempted.
So be smart with what you're doing with technology.
Make sure to be smart with the boundaries that you're putting in place with co-workers and
other people and other friends.
Make sure you're being smart with where you're spending your time.
I always encourage it, courage dads to be diligent and praying for your family, be diligent
and praying for your, for your wife.
My wife and I love to go into our kids rooms after they fall asleep and just take time praying
over them.
And I praying again, that's something else that we don't always know what to pray, but
guess what?
You can ask the Holy Spirit, Lord, give me words to pray.
What does my son need prayer for?
How can I, like, I don't know the ins and outs of what's going on inside his mind and heart
and spirit?
And so God, tell me the things that I need to pray for him.
And the spirit is so good at just feeding me information and feeding my wife information.
And so I think that I am where I am today, specifically because my grandparents were so
diligent in praying for me.
And so there's a lot of power that comes from praying consistently for your family.
So I think it's an easy thing for us to do as dads and vital to the success, spiritual success
and all success of our families.
Jared, how can dads get a hold of you to get help or to ask questions or learn more about
what you're doing?
Also you have a podcast, how can dads find it?
Sure.
So the podcast that I'm a part of is called Strong By Design.
You can go to Strong By Design podcast.com is the website.
We have a YouTube channel where we put everything up or anywhere podcasts are found.
You can find it just search Strong By Design podcast that will pop right up on Google for
you.
We, it's an interesting podcast because we have different hosts.
I cover all of the faith and family topics, but then we believe that you know, you're
made mind body spirit.
So we have stuff on leadership that we have another host that is covering that stuff.
We have a host that's helping with nutrition and holistic health.
And we have another coach that's helping with physical fitness.
So it's kind of a wide variety of things on that podcast, but being strong and all of
those areas are important.
So go check that out.
My social media stuff, you can just look up Jared's Aria.
It's J-R-E-D-S-A-R-I-A.
I'm on Instagram.
I think I'm tick tock.
I'm Jared's Aria 84.
And Facebook as well.
You can you can search me up on Facebook.
But any of those areas, if you just, you know, send me a DM, I'm happy to connect with anybody
that wants to connect.
Just to make it easy to if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I'll have all those links posted there so you can connect with Jared and find him easily
that way.
Jared, as we close, what is your challenge to dad's listening now?
Please don't coast.
Be intentional with your time.
Be intentional with what God is asking you to do and lead your home.
Leading your home doesn't mean that you have to do everything.
That just means that you are shepherding and guiding and leading your family in the direction
that it needs to go in order to follow what God has for you.
So please be intentional.
Jared, it's been an honor having this conversation with you and you've taught us a lot.
Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Are you a single dad with dreams and aspirations of owning your own business and being your own boss? Do the demands on your time as a single dad require control of your schedule and workload? My guest is here with me to talk about how single dads like you can gain control over your time and your dreams and succeed.
Deevo Tindall is the founder and CEO of Fusion Creative, a branding and marketing agency. His expertise and experience have not only made him the authority on how to grow a successful business but also how to do so as a single dad.
You Can connect with Deevo here:
Website: https://fusioncreativebranding.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fusionphotog/
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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unlearneverythingdeevo
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - How Single Dads Build a Thriving Business
Are you a single dad with dreams and aspirations of owning your own business or being your own boss?
Do the demands and the stress on your time as a single dad require control of your schedule and your workload?
My guest is here with me to talk about how single dads like you can get control of your time and your dreams and succeed.
So don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role and a challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. My guest is Devo Tendol.
Devo is the founder and CEO of Fusion Creative, a branding and marketing agency.
Devo is expertise and experience have not only made him the authority on how to grow a successful business but also how to do it as a single dad.
And this is why I have brought him on the Fatherhood Challenge. Devo, welcome to the program.
Hey my man, thanks for having me. Good to be here.
Okay, I got to ask, what is your favorite dad joke?
What do you call a cat with eight legs?
Cat with eight legs.
Definitely haven't heard this one.
Octopus.
That was great.
I've never been asked that question before so thank you.
Well Devo, what is your own story of what led you to become an entrepreneur and start Fusion Creative?
I think really it's some similarities with a lot of entrepreneurs.
I was driven by a blend of necessity and passion.
I worked a very successful job. I learned a boatload of information and met some amazing people and got the opportunity to rub shoulders with some pretty amazing and intelligent and motivated people that were also equally successful.
But I wasn't really utilizing any of my passions that I felt drawn to do and I certainly wasn't utilizing my creativity.
And because I'm a creative at heart, I interestingly have sort of a nice blend of pragmatism and left and right brain sort of synergies.
And I really wanted to build something, I've always been passionate about building things.
And I got exposed to that in the corporate world for many years working in the areas that I was blessed to work in.
I got to build projects but I didn't have any ownership of them.
And I really was looking for something where I could express my creativity but also provide practical solutions and sort of be the owner of all that.
And so Fusion was born from that desire to merge innovative design with really with strategic marketing.
I know that there are so many dads out there listening who are experiencing some form of burnout where it almost hurts to get out of the bed just to get into work.
And it feels like it drains their soul.
And I'd be willing to bet that besides probably the schedule thing and all of that.
The lack of ownership in their creative energy is probably a big factor in why they might feel that drain and burnout because this is how we were made.
We were made to create things.
We were definitely not designed to sit in cubicles for eight hours a day doing redundancy tasks and working for other people in a capacity where we're just sort of taking orders and knee jerk responding.
And that and entrepreneurship is not for everybody.
There are people who sort of thrive in those sorts of conditions and I'm not making any judgments on any of that.
But for certain people, I'm one of those people.
And it wasn't designed to sort of sit. And there's an argument to be made like you just said, Jonathan, that humans themselves were not designed to be sitting in a cubicle or in an office, you know, just judging over these sorts of minutia and redundancy.
And for me, that was sort of an observation that I made early on that, you know, I could do this for 50 years for rest of my life, make a lot of money, have a lot of things, have a nice big house, all those things.
But I just realized, do my own sort of introspective way that I just this is not this wasn't my calling. And so I set out to find a way to step out of that space.
What do you think are some of the reasons that single dads with aspirations of entrepreneurship won't go after their dreams?
I don't think first and foremost that we are taught to go after our dreams.
I think critical thinking and self-awareness and doing something for ourselves is is frowned upon.
It's viewed as vain, it's viewed as selfish, it's viewed as narcissistic.
And the collective, the collective educations that we receive from from a very early age, you know, three, four, five years old, we're stuck in the classroom.
And then we're stuck in another classroom and then we're stuck in another classroom, a cult, a cubicle or an office. And we're not trained to step outside of that space.
We're educated to become automatons in a lot of capacity. And so we just don't really have the self-awareness to think outside of that space.
And then when we do think outside of that space, there's a lot of fear associated with it. There's a lot of trauma associated with that, especially if you just came out of a divorce, you just went through a divorce, you're going through a divorce or you're a single father.
Man, I can tell you my entire life changed and anyone who listens to this is a single parent, not just fathers, but you, your paradigm changes really fast.
And you really are forced to either figure it out or pass it off like a lot of people do.
And so I think concerns about financial security and time management and resources and really understanding that balance between being a present parent and a business owner.
It can be really daunting for a lot of people and I don't think it's insurmountable. Obviously I'm doing it and thousands of others are as well.
But I think early on when you sort of think about, what do I want to do with my life? There's so much bigger.
And when you start to actually materialize those ideas, you get stopped up against this stop gap because you're like, "Shoo, man, I don't know how that's going to be possible.
I suddenly have kids. I have to be the mother and the father for. I got to cook for them. I got to drive them around."
Like all these different things and it's like, "I just want to stay in something really comfortable right now."
You touched on it in the very, very beginning. I thought that was really cool. You brought that up. And that is the education system.
Our education system is decades old as far as the model that we're using today.
And the model that we're using today is based on a thought process of producing obedient factory workers.
And so we still have that mindset within our own education system. I mean, we're trying to break it, but we're really having a hard time.
And sometimes I wonder if there's an epigenetic component into the way we approach education that is making it so difficult for us to break free, not only from the education model that we've been using,
but also within ourselves to become entrepreneurs when we were brought up completely the opposite way. And that's what makes it such a challenge to break.
Wow, brilliant point, epigenetics. How many of your listeners know what epigenetics is? So that's fantastic reference.
It partially is a collective consciousness of epigenetics and sort of DNA remoluculizing in a capacity.
But I think more than that, there is a fixed and concentrated effort from the powers that be, that maintain and control the education system and are teaching the teachers that are teaching our kids to maintain that sense of control and manipulation so that the type of output that we're getting are people who don't know how to critically think are people who don't know how to function on their own who are not independent and autonomous in the sense of the system.
There are slaves to the system, if you will, and that system is rewarded or I'm sorry, that system rewards the people who not only educate those people, but then the people who are part of the systems themselves are rewarded sort of that.
It's sort of like bread and circuses. There's a, you know, you know, you like the Roman civilization, I'm going way outside of where I think we should be going, but the Roman civilization is no dissimilar to what we did.
You know, they knew that in times of crisis, the best thing to do was to feed the masses and give them alcohol and give them entertainment and set up all these different massive arenas all over the world.
And if you look at our society today, that's exactly what's happening in sports or in everything else, you know, you have these massive events that are scheduled to entertain the masses and we keep them drunk and we keep them high and we keep them stone.
We don't ever encourage them to step outside that space of self awareness and introspection and mindfulness and then sort of become independent thinkers from the system itself.
So yeah, 100% man, you were spot on epigenetics as part of that because it just becomes part of our DNA and then we pass it on to the next generation and the next generation and the next generation.
But you always have to go behind the wizard of the curtain who's behind the curtain controlling that epigenetic manipulation and there are people and powers that in my opinion are have designed this system purposefully in order to do exactly what you just said.
Yeah, there's a culture component of it, which there was a time where you were considered a man.
If you were able to hold down a job for your life at the same company long enough to be able to retire from that same company and collect a pension that was considered the definition of or part of the definition of being a man and providing for your family.
But what nobody talks about from that generation is at some point those same men were serving another man somewhere who was at the very top who did something very different and became an entrepreneur and that's who they're working for and collecting the pension from no one talks about that and then the day no one talks about the entrepreneurs back then they just sort of did it.
And so entrepreneurship, I think still becomes this mysterious thing that people now are are maybe they want to do that there's an interest there, but it just feels far out of reach.
So for that single dad that's ready to take those first steps into a business ownership.
What exactly should their first steps look like?
Man you can't lead with that sort of breakdown that you just did that was spot on and I'll expect me to extrapolate on the pitch but I would love to dive into that and unpack that of it because there's a lot of pieces that were really powerful and what you said so the pedigree was groomed for exactly what you said.
But it was an interesting paradigm in my opinion because if you take a look at some of the morals and the ethics and the values of those very people you just described you know 1920s and post war.
They were all based upon sort of the old school of thinking if you will which was morals and conscious and clear and consciousness around working hard and raising a family and being a good man.
And those sort of things were brought into this new paradigm because they realize that what what was happening there is is that mode of thinking was contradictory to what they wanted to train people right and so it took a little bit of time but now fast forward to where we are today and and all of that sort of independent thinking and morals and good conscious and strong values and all the things that made America and society strong have been slowly white washed out and replaced with the world.
And this new culture is easier to control because of that they're easier to train because of that because they don't they don't have independent thinking they don't have critical thought they don't have a strong backbone they don't have values they don't see the idea of what what that there is a necessity for a true testosterone based man who thinks acts and works in in a in a community but also simultaneously independent free thinker and so all that has been sort of purged out of society.
So that being said if you want to change that paradigm you have to reverse the remote of thinking in the way you operate and understand that you do have the power to develop and build your own life you don't have to be dependent upon someone else paying you what's more important is finding a community of people that can support you that think in that same capacity and so if you in that answer your question.
The first steps towards towards business ownership is really clearly taking the time to have that sort of mindfulness about yourself and understand what it is that you ultimately want to do with your life what's your legacy you want to leave what's the value you wish to bring to the universe what problems can you solve and do some research around yourself and do some research on the economies that you want to play in or the sandboxes that you want to play in understand your strengths understand your passions and how do they align with market needs where can you step in with whatever it is you love doing.
And our passion about doing and most importantly you can add value and solve a problem for somebody based upon what the market needs and then create some sort of a I don't like the word business plan because it's not really a business plan is really more of a life plan create a plan around that and start finding people to help you support that plan join mastermind groups find people in your community find people in your church like you have access to eight and a half billion people on the planet build a personal brand around use your soul.
And then you can use your social media for that instead of browsing porn or browsing internet or doing whatever nonsense that you can do on the internet use it for a purposeful and mindful strategy so that you can connect with people that are very like minded and can support you in that space and then start building and just do start by starting don't just expect it to happen overnight it takes time it's a process it takes tweaking and modifying and adjusting and and continuing and rinse and repeat and rinse and repeat and then at some point if you're if you just follow your own sort of heart and
follow your strategy and you have good support around it then you can build something it's it's possible I mean I'm doing it now what makes entrepreneurship so exciting is the fact that there is no one in your way so the service doesn't go away you still get to serve someone and it's the customer and there's no one between you in that customer you can do it your way but every other skill has to be there the showing up when you're supposed to show up being prepared having
everything ready to go doing quality work all those skills don't go away the only thing that you can put in is your own creativity of how that's going to get done and you can increase the quality to whatever whatever level that you think that quality needs to be at and that's up to you there's no one deciding that and in the end whether you get to keep that job which we call a customer the customer decides that
so I love those components of entrepreneurship there's no one deciding that middle part yeah you you're absolutely right I'd like to add a little bit to that while you don't have anyone that ultimately is responsible for this you are the creator and the implementer and the amplifier and you are the vessel that's going to build your business
but it's often really important to find people that can support that that mission support those values because one of the things that happens is you sort of get in your own way and I found that out really on because it's your own business
you think you know everything you think you have all the systems in place you think you have the you know the objective and the missions and all and how to build this but often is the case is that the scalability of that is limited by your own capacity in your own resources
so it's really important to find people that can support that whether they're working for you or contractors and and stay in your lane and focus on the things that you're really good at and find other people to support the minutiae the things that you don't really have value in and then you have sort of a scalable model
there's a great fantastic quote from the bible bad company corrupts good character and that's sort of been a motto of mine my entire life is is really try to find because you become an output of the five or six people you surround yourself with most right
that's your partner that's your wife that's your that's your friends that's that's everything so the people you work with and so yeah it's really really important that you can surround yourself with people that give you value and give you community and inspire you
and are honest with you and are transparent with you and can and help lift you up so that you can step into the true power that you're meant to be and if if you're surrounded by people who are less than that who are negatives or who are
who are who are or for example you know like I try to surround I belong to a mastermind group and most everyone in that group is considerably more successful than me
considerably more intelligent than me considering more versed in everything and so but what I found is by surrounding myself with these types of people
you sort of have no choice but to play at their level and if you're not playing at their level you're sort of kind of an outcast and sit in the shadows
and so yeah it's really really important that to understand that you're not trying to fake it's not the whole concept of fake it till you make it it's it's finding people that you can that you are inspired by
that are doing things that you haven't yet done or want to do and they're living proof and they're willing to support your journey as well and bring you up to their level
and that's what I'm trying to say is like it's so critical to surround yourself with quality people because they become a byproduct of who you are
okay I want to change gears a little bit does every new business need a branding strategist like yourself working with them to succeed and if so why I don't think ultimately you need to go hire somebody
especially if you're strapped for cash I do think more importantly it's critical that you take the time to figure out and can we clarify the word brand because that's a very
fabulous term for a lot of people branding or brand most people think that that's just you know the color of your the color of your the colors that you've chosen or your logo or you have a website so now you're branded and it's it couldn't be
farther from the truth those are certain elements of a brand but they're just small constituents that ultimately make up a brand a brand is everything that you stand for a brand is everything that you believe a brand is your values a brand is the message a brand is your 30 second
elevator pitch a brand is how you answer the phone or your voice message or what your website says it's all of those things combined into one which ultimately says this is who I am this is what I believe this is what I stand for and this is what I bring to the table
and these are the problems that I'm going to solve for you this is me do you have access to so much information on the internet today that you could basically build your own brand without me but the problem is is most people don't have the
discipline to your point most people don't have the the moxie or the or the wherewithal to sort of dive into that space or they're so busy trying to do all the other things to get their business going that they've forgotten to take the time to have that clarity first so it helps to have somebody
like me in your corner I'm sort of like your branding marketing wing man okay so what you just got through saying is the big reason why I brought you on this program I feel like I'm getting an
education a really good education right now and I believe the audience is to yeah take breaking down what branding is is so important and I guess what I'm reading out of that is that when it comes to building your brand it is so critical for you to be authentic about who you really are because if you're not people can smell
that a mile away yeah you you really someone thank you for summarizing that better for me I'm a little long winded if you can tell yeah you know I actually have this service that I offer this is not a shameless plug but to just to continue with the dating scene one one of the things that I discovered early on in my dating journey is that a it's time consuming be it's a bit confusing see it's very tiring and D you know what because I was married for 10 years for example in dating the same person for 17 years
I sort of lost touch with reality and I find that a lot of people because because of you know a bunch of other things that go into that you sort of kind of lose touch with who you are and it's not that you're
delusional but you just might lose touch with who you are you just sort of out of practice and all those things and so we developed this program where we actually help people it's a personal branding workshop where I act as your wingman might team access your wingman and teaches you how to show up in your and I don't like
authentic is over use sort of become this cliche buzzword but genuinely speaking it's a fantastic word if you really break it down it means no facades it means who you are it's what your value what do you bring to the table where the types of people you want to connect with who do you want
to date or who do you want as your clients it's all of those things in teaching you how to how to profess that how to amplify that how to share that message so that you can show up as your true self and there
isn't like this this wall of of the façades that you're throwing out there to sort of pretend that you're somebody that you're not so that you'll attract that person because like you said man what you just said is so brilliant we're really really savvy and smart and we can smell right through it like we know if you're being a fraud like you might get away with it for a couple of dates you might get away with it after a amount of time but really quickly if you're projecting something that is falsified that truth that dead body if you will will rise to the surface and so it's really important that you get some clarity
around all the things that you are so that when you do show up in the marketplace whether as an entrepreneur someone you try as as a dating a new single dad out in the marketplace you're showing up in the most positive light possible the most transparent light possible the most authentic version of you that is possible my goal at the end of this conversation is for that dad that's listening now that that single dad that is on the fence that has just had the
dream going on in his head for maybe a short time it may be most of his life and he's been scared to take that to pull the trigger and become an entrepreneur to launch that dream my goal is that by the end of this conversation that single dad is left without any excuses and is ready to take action and knows those key first steps to be able to get something in motion and often sometimes very first things you do become the hardest
because they're new to you but to have the courage to get off the bench and start taking action and doing something what are the key takeaways that you want single dads to understand about getting control of their time their energy and their financial well being discover your mindfulness and understand what that does for you and being willing to be honest with yourself and understand who you are first and foremost and I know that sounds a bit
so terror but really important to approach that from a serve first capacity not what can I get out of this I think a lot of people get caught up in the tit for tat conditional relationship situation which is you know all do this if you do this for me and then like I noticed that in my own in my own marriage I was like you know that because I wasn't
passionately connected with this person because I had become lazy or undisciplined or whatever it was the mistakes that I made in my marriage and the fact that we grew apart it sort of became this conditional logic of like all do this if you do that for me right and so get away from that first of all if you're going
to be an entrepreneur you have to understand that you're here to serve first and and if you do it properly if you do it with authenticity to borrow your term if you do it with clarity you'll find that all the things that you seek they will come to you over time but you have to step away from
me me me it has to be a serve first capacity so take some time to to be mindful and develop that I think also prioritize and delegate if you can be very very clear on what it is you want to accomplish and build a plan around that it's sort of like setting goals it's no different than setting goals you know
there are going to be a lot of goals that you want to accomplish there's a lot of things that you can do as an entrepreneur and they sometimes seem very monumental but if you can plan it out and prioritize and strategize with those things you'll find that if you set smaller pieces in between for this stratization
that big and surmountable goal slowly over time become smaller and more attainable and understand that time management is everything know your resources and what you're able to do and I don't over commit I think we're really over zealous early on that we'll just do everything I'll take it on yeah yeah I'll do it
and then you know you know two weeks later you're sinking and sinking and barely able to swim because you said yes is so many things I'm not saying that that's that it's you should be ambivalent about that I'm saying that understand your resources and that everything that you bring to the table is sort of like your bank account and if people are withdrawing from you all the time that bank account gets really small so embrace tools and strategies to understand your value and and what your resource constraints are streamlined your workflow try to systematize things where you can for example
if you're sending out emails every day on lead generation tactics you should probably copy and learn to copy and write sort of a standard email so that you don't have to write the entire thing every single time right so understand your workflow and really try to systematize and most importantly don't compromise on your well being it's really really really important that you take care of yourself first because now you're a single dad right so your resources are thinner than they were before you don't have that partner to support you and now you're you might be solely responsible for your work and you're not going to be able to do that
you might be solely responsible for supporting your little offspring so it's really important that you take care of yourself get to the gym make it a priority you can wake up at five o'clock in the morning it might take you a couple weeks to get used to it but wake up in the morning you'll find that's your most valuable time your diet is critical man you you are what you eat take note of that and that's different for everybody but develop a healthy work life existence so that you're not consumed by work and I struggle from that all the time because I actually love working right but
if you want to have sustained success it's really important that you take care of yourself and and and and again if you're diminished if you're less you're going to be less equipped to handle your clients your children etc etc.
Devo how can dads connect with you to get help or learn more about what you're doing.
Instagram is a great way I'm on LinkedIn Instagram I'm I'm at fusion photo if you S I O N photo pH O T O G short for photography on my website is fusion creative branding dot com you can send me a message there or DM me on Instagram I respond and connect with everybody I don't ever leave a message on responded just to make it easier as well if you go to the fatherhood challenge dot com that's the fatherhood challenge dot com go to this episode
look right below the episode description I'll have all of the links that Devo just said all the links will be posted right there below the description as we close what is your one challenge to dads listening now if there's something you want to do start by starting today and
figure out a way to build it do not look back 20 30 40 years from now and say I wish I had done that and your situation as a single dad is unique and so are the insights and the resilience and the value that you bring to the world
how can you figure out a turn your strengths into something that someone else can utilize someone else can buy someone else can stand to gain by the value that you bring to the world and everybody I do ultimately truly believe that everybody has some value that they could grow upon and expand and share if you if you approach it from that surfers capacity you find that you start surrounding yourself with the right type of people
Devo it has been awesome to have you on the fatherhood challenge you brought so much so much value so much wisdom to the audience I learned so much from you as well so I know listeners did as well so thank you so much for coming on
thank you I appreciate the opportunity to speak to your audience and the conversation with you is absolutely fantastic it's not often that I encounter people who sort of share some of the insights of wisdom if you talk about the epigenetics man well done I'm giving you a high five for that one
not many people talk about epigenetics well done thank you for listening to this episode of the fatherhood challenge if you would like to contact us listen to other episodes find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more information about the fatherhood challenge please visit the fatherhood challenge dot com that's the fatherhood challenge dot com
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If you are struggling with your mental health as a father at any age, this episode is for you. My guest has studied and learned much about the mental health crisis surrounding dads and has written a book about it. He will share his own story and what he has learned and offer much needed hope.
Mark Williams is a Keynote Speaker, Author of How Are You Dad and International campaigner for the mental health of fathers.
To connect with Mark or learn more about what he is doing visit:
https://howareyoudad.co.uk/
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Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - A Dads Journey to Mental Wellness
If you're struggling with your mental health as a father at any age, this episode is for
you.
My guest has studied and learned much about the mental health crisis surrounding dads
and has written a book about it.
He will share his own story in what he has learned and offer much needed hope in just
a moment so don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere to
take great pride in their role.
And to challenge society to understand how important fathers are to the stability and
culture of their families environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Mark Williams.
Mark is a keynote speaker, author and international campaigner for mental health awareness for
fathers.
Mark thank you so much for joining me on the Fatherhood Challenge.
No, thank you Jonathan.
Honestly, I'm looking forward to it.
Actually, share it.
And thank you for letting me share the message as well.
Definitely.
So I've got to ask, what is your favorite joke, Mark?
Oh, okay.
Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. I feel like a pair of curtains.
You better put yourself together.
Bad is bad.
Bad.
Sorry.
Sorry.
But I tried.
Mark, what is your own personal story behind why you became so involved with mental health
for fathers?
Yeah, it started in 2004.
So we planned to become parents.
We just come out at a house.
Me and Michelle were in totally different jobs where we are now.
But yeah, we thought we were ready and I was 30 years of age.
But the pregnancy was fine, nothing all the pregnancy.
But after 20 hours of labor, Michelle was in bad shape, she was starting to get worse and
worse.
And the doctors came rushing in and they said, Mr. Williams, your wife needs emergency
C section.
We need to get it down the ER quick.
And Jonathan's the first time and only time.
I've actually had a panic attack and I felt so guilty and all the attention was on me when
it should be on my wife Michelle.
And it wasn't when I went to theater then, obviously, a while away from this, obviously,
of course.
I honestly thought my wife and baby is going to die in that situation and it felt helpless
in us.
I did not do it.
I was under the impression in the labor, cut the baby's cord off of your gall, happy families
and it wasn't a case for Michelle.
And obviously, as we know, now PTSD is an anxiety disorder, the witness in experience and
life-frightening event.
So yeah, it's nothing worse than thinking the wife and baby is going to die in that situation
for me and a lot of parents and partners and grandparents as well.
So what you basically experienced was a birth trauma?
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like you said, 19 years ago, it wasn't really much awareness and perinatal mental health
obviously has grown over the last 10 to 12 years, especially in the UK as a state.
But back then, we were in even talking about mental health, depression, anxiety or PTSD.
Of course, it was associated with people with any armed forces, but people were aware that
of course, fathers can experience PTSD as well and certainly my wife did.
But it wasn't until a couple of days after my wife was really well in the ward, things changed
rapidly.
And I was expecting to leave that birth experience, the fray of us, but obviously it was
all in myself and I couldn't process what just went on.
And the first thing I did was drink, knocked my next door neighbors at the time to use alcohol
to cope with it because it was just too much going on.
But things really escalated after Michelle got discharged and she was quickly after a couple
of weeks in crisis team where my wife is very open about this and she's trying to take
her life by suicide.
And this is what my love, obviously, is in still love today, but she never experienced
any anxiety or depression as she should say, severe as she was getting after the birth.
So for the first couple of weeks before the crisis team came in, I was trying to hate
it from people and trying to, I was worried about social services, I was worried the baby
was going to take off, be taken off first, I was worried all thoughts of things of the
father and I was expecting to be back in work in two weeks and I was self-employed.
So luckily I had a good manager, I said, look, take as much time as you want, obviously
you won't get paid.
I was eventually off for six months because after Michelle went into crisis, it was a case
that there was a world and never experience before.
And there certainly wasn't any specialist services in the UK for mams back then.
My wife was on a hospital ward with people with all different disorders.
So I was totally uneducated, I'm a mental health, totally uneducated myself.
So yeah, I didn't know about, you know, severe post-apression, but it was late to diagnose afterwards
as she had to PTSD as well.
There really wasn't much awareness for how to treat your wife's mental awareness or mental
illness as well, is that what you're saying?
Yeah, it's, well, I was CPNU, a community mental health nurse who was caring for Michelle.
Gail James, she actually went into the field of specializing in parenting mental health.
And she came across a lot of mams like Michelle and she went on to set up a group afterwards.
But certainly back then, you know, post-apression fathers, which I talk a lot about as well, you know,
it was really a case of like for mams back then, you know, what have you got to be depressed
about?
You just had a baby, you know, those sort of conversations were going on as well in 2004.
So we have come a long way as well.
And certainly back then, you know, and certainly when it comes to fathers, it was lichen, nothing,
I wasn't even asked about my mental health back then either, like a lot of fathers today
and I'll ask either.
The part I can really relate to is the part where you felt guilty for what you were feeling
and you did not want to call any attention to yourself and take the attention off of your
wife who was needing care at that moment as well, very much so.
I can relate to that feeling very much.
I also experienced birth trauma.
It wasn't until many, many years later that I realized that that's what I was going through.
But looking back now, I felt exactly what you were feeling.
I felt that guilt for what I was feeling and I tried to just suck it up and deal with it
in the moment and not call any attention to myself.
Yeah, and I know many other dads can have experienced that as well and can relate to that.
Yeah, thanks, Jonathan.
Thanks for sharing stories as well because it is a big issue that, you know, especially in
the UK and why I've come across a lot of fathers don't get through the cause and end up in
services and who may not, you know, never maybe comes along and there's more anti-natal
anxiety then because obviously the fathers think it is going to happen again, you know,
those sorts of things.
And communication is a big factor, you know, where sometimes my miss over thinking is
anything I've done, but the way dad's presenting, like I did, you know, avoiding situations,
I was drinking more, feeling feelings of anger, all these sorts of feelings.
You know, I couldn't have my wife, I was feeling because I didn't want to impact on her,
mental health even more.
So I suppressed those feelings for many years as well, you know, so it's very common, more
common than we think it is, you know.
What are the statistics behind fathers who struggle with mental health or fathers who commit
suicide?
There's a couple of new studies come out in Canada, a recent study and it's anything like
22% onwards, you know, it's a, when you look at the overall studies, it's one in ten, we
know for years and that was over like four, over many studies, but overall it was one in
ten.
So, you know, even though one in ten is a lot, but we've got to remember it was one in ten
for years for mums and then one of us more evidence and research and we're screening and assessment
knowledge behind it, we know now is far higher than when in ten in mums.
So eventually this will be known as it is far higher than when in ten, definitely.
But the one thing is with suicide, actually suicide, so in any UK is, we call it died by suicide
because it didn't actually crime to die by suicide.
And so it's at the 47 times more risk of father is to obviously of suicide as a new father
at the 47 and that research came out in 2010.
So you know, this, one of the pretty big studies while on the father.
So you know, so we got, you know, in the UK especially where we know, you know, the biggest
killer men under 45 being suicide and we know the high risk of suicide in women, which
is high risk in maternal mental health and we still know screen assessment dance, you know.
So you know, we know that lollies men will die by suicide after the post-natal period as
well.
And also we know that some of the risk factors could have been from what happened as becoming
a new father as well.
So it does get more complex.
I was actually diagnosed with ADHD at 40 and ten years ago.
So there could be other issues for instance, you know, like for instance, you know, neurodiversity
you got bipolar schizophrenia dad, you know, who struggled with problems with his mental
health before becoming a dad.
And then he put the lack of sleep on top of that as well, you know, then he got, you know,
different structures and different things we know with the transition of parenting as
well.
So you know, working more hours because it comes, you know, there's loads of reasons why
sometimes it could get worse because when becoming a new dad as well.
So in other words, we could really almost spend an entire new episode just on the topic of
the complexities of mental illness that can contribute into the birth experience or even
the other way around.
I never thought of sleep being a factor, but yes, that's an obvious one.
Both the mother and the dad are not getting very much sleep in the very beginning during
the birth experience and definitely after the birth experience and that plays a very,
very big part.
And then you added several more factors into it that many of us don't think of.
If we have other things going on, if we have ADHD and there may be a host of other things
that may be may have been there before the birth and all of that factors in and that really
leads me into the next question that makes me wonder.
I mean, is mental health of fathers ignored or treated with less seriousness or awareness
than that of mothers and if that is the case?
Why do we think that is?
Yeah, so I'm not a bit about obviously in the States, you know, about I work with, um,
a gentleman called Dr. Daniel Sengley, he does love fathers and, um, but also what I know
now, especially when I'm in the UK is we are understanding that, but it's only when
mums are unwell and the fathers in England can get screened for their mental health.
So which is a good start, but a lot of mothers tell me that Mark, I'm fine, you know, my,
my partner husband is actually struggling and it's actually impacting on my mental health.
And so some of the researchers say in about the 50% of fathers can actually get depression
looking after the mothers, we post part of them depression as well.
So, you know, if, if dad's got a depression, obviously he's up to 50% of the mums can get affected.
So the old idea is really getting more realistic approach, you know, support both parents
and at the same time with a struggling and then he outcomes a far better for themselves
and relationships and obviously the child development as well because, you know, like I said,
fathers who are near depressed, they less likely to sing, read, dance and play, they less likely
to follow good health guidelines, keeping the baby safe as well. So there's other shows that
comes into it. Why should we look at a father's mental health because obviously the impact
they may have on the family members as well.
That's interesting. I think that is, that may be the first time I've ever heard that approach
of treating the mental health of both the mother and the father at the same time.
So it's probably safe to assume if one or the other is experiencing depression during
her after the birth experience, it's probably safe to assume the other one is and we're further
ahead just to go ahead and screen and treat them both. I think that is probably one of the
wisest approaches I've ever heard.
Oh, thanks Jonathan. Like you said, you know, I've been campaigned with government level
and the most important of course is the parents, but the economic cost, you know, we went,
you know, that we found, you know, it can say billions, you know, because a lot of these,
men are going into other services and relationships break down and then there's other issues within
the relationship when they can't see a children or sort of things in delinx with a lot of the
things as well. So, yeah, it's that early prevention, you know, and it's such an important time.
You know, I always say mental health early prevention starts on pregnancy, you know, so we
should be looking after mum and dad or whoever that parent is, you know, support them because
then they could look after the baby better than as well.
I want to throw this question in there because I know this has been on the minds of many
dads. It was definitely on my mind at the time I was going through this. If you are experiencing
like even right now, if you're the dad listening now and you are experiencing depression, it doesn't
matter if it's been recently after the birth or it's been sometime after the birth or
maybe even during the birth process, but right now you are experiencing some kind of depression,
you're just feeling down, you're feeling the blues and there's all kinds of ways that happens.
You feel maybe like sleeping more or maybe you're having trouble sleeping. You have all kinds
of intrusive thoughts that go through your mind, all kinds of things. If that is you right now,
and Mark, I'm asking you, if that dad that's going through this now, should he tell his
partner, should he tell his wife or is it better to keep it to himself?
Well, we did some work with parents doing COVID and so I worked with midwife and the mums
for me that would rather know what's going on than them second guessing. So that came up
a lot when we did the exercise. No, I rather know because I'm thinking about everything
and I'm thinking he's having a affair because he's not there. I'm thinking there's 11
or sometimes when it comes to sex, sometimes the father's one out of sex, so he partner
is because he wanted the partner to be pregnant again and then go from a trauma again.
So these topics do come up. But what I know from my own personal experience only is that
when I did, I've no choice to tell Michelle when I was in crisis afterwards, that's something
we do constantly all the time now, we check in each other and I'm more open with my wife,
Michelle now than ever over the last 15 years because nothing is nothing to be ashamed of
really. We talk about physical health more than ever. So if you are struggling, it could
be the smallest thing sometimes, it could be the biggest thing to you and that would help
you partner could actually solve that situation together. So yeah, I'm always very person-centered
when I say this but what's worked for me is having a better conversation and openness
with my partner, Michelle, my wife, Michelle. Okay, so that's completely flipping the narrative
or flipping the thought process of most dads and I think what you said is so powerful and important.
So what you're saying is probably maybe one of the first steps of your treatment, if this
is what you're going through, maybe one of the very first steps that you should do is
open up to your partner to your wife to go tell them, be honest with them about how
you're feeling. I can tell you firsthand, I mean, the times I've opened up with my wife,
I mean, what it actually does is it does build the connection, it does build closeness, it
does increase that bond and maybe you're both in the dumps together. But being in that dark
place together is so much better than being in that place alone. It's so powerful to hear
you say that Mark, from your perspective and from your side of it, your wife preferred
and most wives would prefer that their husbands would open up about what's going on in their
minds and in their own mental health. Absolutely, Jonathan. Yeah, definitely. It's the best
thing I did actually. And even now, if I want time out, she knows, she's more aware.
So yeah, absolutely. It's something like, from the fathers, obviously, I've spoken to
over the years as one of the biggest things they just don't want to tell your partners.
You know, like you mentioned, true set thoughts, you know, dads have, I've spoken to other
and true set thoughts are going to harm the baby and all sorts of things. Well, we know
it's obviously that happens to moms, you know, so, you know, maternal or paternal or CD, you
know, it is, it is, it is never common area. But the good thing about this show is, well,
it's very much, it's raised awareness to educate the mothers so they can look out for
the signs and symptoms if they partner is actually, yes, yes, normal as well. You know, so it's
really important that mums are aware because, you know, they see them every day as well.
The one common thread I see out of this is when it comes to the parinatal mental health
experience, it is becoming less of a gender issue. Well, maybe we have made it a gender
issue, but in fact, it's becoming less of a really of an issue between genders and it's
becoming a simple basic human need. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, you're right. It's, it is, it's,
it's, you know, when you think of it, in my experience, obviously, it's, you know, if I,
understand of it, you know, that, and the other things that have a father, just speak to,
when he know that there's ever fathers, I'll actually speak, if you better, no, and gosh,
I'm not the only one now. And this is why it's great that, you know, you're doing the
work you're doing, you know, because like I said, I'm all about equality and all about every
single person should have the same support. And that as far but outcomes as a parent, and
it doesn't matter. Like I said, if nobody was shouting for mums years ago, and I was only
shouting, and everyone shouted for dads, I probably won't be no more for maternal mental
health because it's pretty clear. It's pretty obvious that if you support all parents,
the outcomes are far better, far far better as well. Now you've written a book. Tell me a little
bit about your book and the journey behind what led you to write that book. Yeah. So I'd,
I'd be fortunate, you know, I've done a couple of books over the years. It was one, well,
turned into a film on Amazon Prime, Daddy Blues, but it was, and we self-funded it, you know,
people think you make a lot of money in books, trust me, you know, unless you're JK Rowling
or something like that. But the idea of the book is really just to raise awareness and understanding.
And so the doctor I work with, we did a book a couple of years ago. It was very academic,
and it was great, great book for, but I wanted to write the book with evidence and research. And
so that anyone, you know, anyone interested in in mental health, you know, social workers,
doctors, could be, you know, in parents may have an interest in mental health. You know, so it's
really for people like really just show the evidence in it, you know, and give the voices of parents
in it as well as well as the academics as well. It's very important. And we, I put that in there as
well. So, yeah, it's just, just come out now soon. It's how are you, Dad? And if anyone's interested
as well as, I did a TEDx talk called The Importance of Mental Health, which is obviously the,
the strap line of the book, really. So, you know, they can have a look at that to, to share with
the colleagues or whatever, because they might have a father or a friend who's struggling and it's just
normalizing a conversation that all the thoughts and feelings I was getting as a new father. There was
so many out there having it, but I didn't know any other fathers going through the same sort of
juniors me at the time. If you know, happen to know a dad who is struggling with his mental health,
whether it's a new dad or a dad that's struggling with paternal postpartum depression or an older dad
doesn't matter, what are the most important things that you can do to help? Certainly, as mentioned
obviously, you know, going to see your health professional, you know, obviously. But one thing's,
you know, just having a conversation, you know, looking over different signs and signs for
behaviors that could be, you know, like I mentioned, you know, is your body, you're doing more,
you know, is he, is this personally changed during the pregnancy and afterwards, you know,
these could be signs as well, you know, as mentioned, but then, but also, like I said, it's,
it's really, I found when I started educating myself on it as well, I found, gosh, you know,
that helped me a lot as well, understanding why I was behaving in different ways as well.
But yeah, I think if there's any, any colleagues out there, just ask the question, you know,
how are you dad, you know, how are you getting on, you know, because like you mentioned,
you know, sleep, you know, sleep, you know, severe sleep deprivation, you know, you know, that can cause
psychosis on its own, you know, so, so these sort of things, you know, maybe some fathers would just want,
just want a conversation, just see how things going on and I don't see them again, then, you know,
just want to have a chat and to the most severe end where unfortunately I've supported fathers where,
you know, they have made plans to die by suicide and obviously we've put interventions in place,
then, but sometimes the majority of fathers, they speak, they just want something to talk to, just
saying this is how he's feeling because certainly when I would be coming, I didn't have enough,
I didn't have, I didn't get as well when I've been left my son initially, you know, because I was
just so concerned, you know, it was so much going on, but that bond and attachment grew when I was
home for that six months, doing skin skin, baby mass, all that stuff, which has helped talk myself.
So these sort of things can help dads as well, you know, you know, skin to skin, you know,
really starts to touch and go for the dial and baby, you know, being involved in to breastfeeding where,
you know, fathers may feel excluded sometimes during this period and I feel isolation loneliness.
So it's in trying to empower the dads and explain to the moms that it's very important that we include
dads in this in this process as well. The title of your book makes it so simple. How are you, Dad?
The simple question, very, very simple question can have such a powerful impact just checking in
with that dad. That's what I love that the advice that you gave it. It's so simple and it is
probably the one thing that a lot of new dads and even older dads are hungry for the most,
that community, that that fellowship. In addition to reading your book, what are some other resources
that you would recommend to dads who just need a little bit of extra hope? I'm certainly,
look at more the, you know, like, for instance, the early years that, you know, I feel like becoming a new
dad, you know, prepare yourself, you know, the language and the labor, what can cause trauma as well,
you know, you know, for me, you know, emergency C section, you know, so the language, you know,
empower, you know, learning, asking midwife, you know, if you've got any questions, you know,
empower yourself to go on to it. It doesn't matter how silly the question is, make sure, you know,
you get your point across, so you can understand the better as well. So yeah, it's engaged in
the health profession, but remember, you know, dads out there, you've got your own experience and
remember that it's okay, that was feelings. And to empower yourself, you know, it might be more
considerable, your partner's mental health, you know, empower yourself to say, okay, I want to know
more, you know, for instance, so that's something I can think of atop my head. How can dads find your
book, connect with you or learn more about what you're doing? I got a website, it's called www.howyoudad.co.uk
and there's some articles, obviously, I've done, you know, online, so if you look at Mark Williams,
father's mental health and we also got an international day, which is always a day after father's
day in the UK, and it's international father's mental health day. So if anyone wants to be involved
with that, anyone really can, can, can, can certainly come on board and we on that day, we do certainly
give out a lot of information and resources and obviously normalize those conversations. We
should be talking about every day, but it's one day of the year that we really, really push ourselves
up there to get as much information out of the people. And just to make things easier, if you go to
the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com. If you go to this episode, look right below the
episode description and I'm going to have all of the links posted there for your convenience, so you can
just click on them and it'll take you right to those resources. And Mark, as we close, what is your
challenge to that dad listening now who's struggling and he's just bottling everything inside?
Yeah, well, I'll take myself to that moment, you know, the quicker the help, the quicker recovery,
and there's no shame. And if, if, luckily for me, well, I had a total breakdown because I was,
I was so on well, I was going to have a little thoughts, obviously, suicide, never made a plan,
never made a plan, but I was very, and well. And so the quicker the help, the quicker recovery,
I always say, you know, at the end of the day, it's, you know, early prevention, you know, because I know
for my own experience, and speaking to other parents, you know, it just gets worse and worse and worse,
and that's not good for you, your family, and obviously your children as well, so yeah, don't
be no shame, just make sure you speak out today to somebody.
It has been an honor and a pleasure having you on the fatherhoodchallenge. You've given us so much to
think about, you've challenged our thinking, and I know you've helped a lot of dads out there
that just need that extra little bit of encouragement and help you provided resources to be able to
help these dads heal. Thank you so much for being on the fatherhoodchallenge.
No, thank you Jonathan, thanks for asking me, thank you.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Fatherhood Challenge. If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in this program or find out more
information about the fatherhood challenge, please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com. That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
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Most single dads never planned on becoming single. Divorce, death or separation may have left you holding the pieces and responsibility of both parenting and running a house alone. On top of that you may also feel alone with your thoughts and emotions wondering how you can or will survive your circumstances. If this is you, there is help. There’s such a thing as a single father coach who specifically works with single dads of all walks of life and you will meet him in this episode. His name is Rob Rohde.
To connect with Rob Rohde or learn more about what he's doing visit: https://robrohde.com/ or Email: rob@robrohde.com
Host of The Business of Being Dad podcast (with new episodes released every Tuesday)
Book your FREE Fatherhood Strategy Call here: https://robrohde.com/book-in-a-call/
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Transcription - Empowering Single Dads to Thrive
Most single dads never planned on becoming single.
Death, divorce, separation may have left you holding the pieces
and responsibility of both parenting and running a house alone.
On top of that, you may also feel alone
with your thoughts and emotions,
wondering how you can or will survive your circumstances.
If this is you, there is help.
There's such a thing as a single father coach
who specifically works with single dads of all walks of life.
And he will join us here on the Fatherhood Challenge,
offering hope and help in just a moment.
Don't go anywhere.
Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,
a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,
to take great pride in their role,
and a challenge society to understand
how important fathers are to the stability
and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
Greetings everyone.
Thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is single father coach Rob Rodi.
Rob, thank you so much for joining me on the Fatherhood Challenge.
Hi Jonathan.
Thank you.
I appreciate you having me.
Rob, what is your own personal story behind
why you became a single father coach?
I mean, I think like so many of us that are in this space,
the story of how we got there is very personal
and it is based on a lot of things that have happened to us
over the course of our lives.
And for me, when I became a single father,
so basically when I went through my separation
and then my divorce, it was difficult
and there were a lot of struggles for me.
I was very involved with my kids upbringing,
I was very involved with the day to day,
kind of household responsibilities
and taking them to school and things like that
prior to the separation and divorce,
but still when that moment came where I became a single father,
it just was totally different.
And I was overwhelmed and I struggled with anxiety
and I struggled with being able to sleep at night.
And I struggled with things like just not really knowing
what my kids needed from me.
And there were things that my wife, the girl's mom,
had done just naturally in our kind of roles
that we had established over the course of our marriage
that I didn't really get involved with.
And one of those was something like, for instance,
setting up play dates for the kids
and interacting with the other parents
and the other, and often cases, moms before and after school.
That was all foreign to me and that was difficult
and I struggled with it and I really felt like I was failing.
I loved my kids, I was involved with my kids
and I was trying, but I was really not doing well.
And I remember this moment with my oldest daughters
and just for a point of reference at the time
that I became a single father, I had five daughters,
I still have five daughters, my oldest two were teenagers
and they really did not want to hang out with me
during that time.
And so we had joint parenting time.
And I remember like it was yesterday, this moment
where I drove up to their mom's house
to pick them up for their parenting time with me
and my oldest two daughters refused to get in the car.
They did not want anything to do with me.
They were upset at me, I had made mistakes, they were,
they just had a lot of anger and resentment towards me
but that affected me deeply.
And you fast forward maybe a couple of weeks
and another kind of this pivotal moment.
Well, let me start by saying initially,
I was sitting in this place of blame,
this place of being a victim
and really feeling like all of these things
were being done to me and that I really had no control
over it that, you know, I love my kids,
why are they not wanting to spend time with me
as opposed to what my role might have been in that?
And so a couple of weeks after that incident took place,
I remember sitting in my bedroom all alone in the house,
sitting on my bed looking at myself in the mirror
and I was, I had just listened to a podcast earlier that day
and within that podcast, the host had mentioned,
he was, he was given a story regarding a leadership meeting
that he had been in and really a goal
that he felt short on and his boss had told him
or it asked him, how did your leadership contribute
to this result?
And I'm letting that sink in for a minute
because I use those words and looked myself in the mirror
and asked myself, Rob, how has your parenting contributed
to this result, contributed to your relationship
with your oldest daughters?
And that just changed everything for me.
It allowed me to go from a place of being a victim
and helpless to a place of taking responsibility
and being empowered.
And I'm not gonna say that everything just changed
in a moment because it didn't.
I was still sitting in that blame place for a while,
blaming my ex-wife for maybe not painting me in the best light
with the kids, blaming my daughters for not wanting to be with me.
But that was the starting place for me taking responsibility
and eventually I was able to move into that state
where I was able to look at myself and say, okay, Rob,
what are you going to do from this point forward?
What changes are you going to make?
And what are you going to do specifically to work
in un-mending this specific relationship,
this relationship with your twin daughters?
And so that was a big turning point in my life,
but unfortunately, there's more,
about four or five years after that,
there was a moment where there was a series of events
that took place that eventually led to the suicide
of the girl's mom.
And so that just was another kind of punch
that they got to change my life,
it changed the girl's life.
And even though a lot of growth had taken place in me
from a time that I had first gotten divorced
up until that point in time, it had been a few years.
I had really began taking ownership of my life
and ownership of my role as a parent.
I had been mending relationships, I had been working on growth,
I had been really striving to make an impact
on the lives of my family.
The rules changed at that moment,
and I went from having a co-parenting partner
to being a solo parent and parenting daughters
who had experienced a significant loss.
And during that period of time,
after the dust kinda settled, so to speak,
I was able to kind of reflect on all of these things
that had happened, and I just made a decision.
I made a decision that I wanted to take these awful things
that had happened, and all of these experiences
that I had encountered in my family had gone through
and I wanted to figure out a way to use this
to help other people.
I wanted to figure out a way to use this for something good.
And so that was kind of the beginning of me moving
in the direction of starting my own business.
And so really what I strived to do was to create a business
that helped other fathers, specifically single fathers,
by providing them with what I wish that I had had
at that point in my life,
by providing them with accountability and support
and resources and tools and motivation,
and all of those things and all of those pieces.
And so I kinda looked back at all of the things
that I had done and that my family had done
that allowed us to move through all of these obstacles
into a place of being healthy and happy and fulfilled.
And I put that into, built that into a program.
My business exists to help single fathers
establish healthy boundaries, build life-changing relationships
with their kids and create a legacy,
a legacy that extends beyond their career and their bank account.
I know, I have friends who are single dads
and could have used this at specific times in their life.
What are the biggest struggles of the dads that you've coached
and how did you help them get past their struggles?
The biggest challenges that I have noticed
that single fathers face are some of the same ones
that I faced, of course.
You know, it's this feeling of loss
and that is a piece that nobody talks about.
But when you go through it most of the time,
you become a single father either from going through a divorce
or a separation or perhaps from the death or the loss
of a spouse, but either way, there is a significant,
there is a significant feeling of loss
and nobody is going to come out there and say,
you know what, I'm feeling this sense of loss
but how that is going to present is
there's going to be this sense of feeling a sense of overwhelm
and continual stress and drowning in responsibilities,
feeling like it's really difficult to juggle work
in your household chores and all your kids needs.
You're also going to have this feeling of isolation
and loneliness or at least that is very, very common.
And also there are another common struggle that I have seen
is really kind of questioning their abilities
and questioning whether or not they are even capable
of taking care of their kids.
You know, a common phrase that I have heard a lot of single dads,
a lot of dads to be honest, but especially single dads use is,
I am just worried I'm going to screw up my kids.
I just want you to tell me,
what can I do right now so I can stop screwing up my kids?
And, you know, in their own words they're basically expressing
that thought and that idea.
And as far as what I am able to provide for them
and what I am able to help them with is,
it's basically kind of twofold.
There it is the accountability and connection piece
by me providing accountability and support
and a sense of community.
So they feel like these dads, these men's feel maybe a little bit less alone
and have a little bit more guidance and a little bit more support
feeling like I now have someone that's walking alongside me.
And really that's why I created this business is because I want to walk
alongside these men during their most difficult moments
and I want to be that support for them
because I really wish that I had had that myself.
So that is one key ingredient.
And then another way that I strive to help these individuals
is really by providing them with a,
what I call a customizable step-by-step process.
So it is a defined process that is fully customizable
depending on the needs and the ones of that specific dad
and their circumstances.
And so really helping them lay out,
these are some exact steps that I am able to take
in order to move forward and improve my role as a father.
What are the common stereotypes or misconceptions about single dads?
Are they true or are they not true and why?
This is a great question because stereotypes exist for a reason
and that is not to say that they're all true
but a lot of times at one point in time
based on social norms at that time they were true
or there were parts of it they were true.
But one, a couple of stereotypes that I will say are true
is that many single fathers struggle with work-life balance
and many single fathers struggle with experiencing
feelings of loneliness and isolation.
I think those stereotypes are true
but you could also substitute the word fathers
with the word parents and I think it would also be true
because when you are a single parent you are struggling
a single parent who is working and trying
to provide for your family.
The struggle of work-life balance is real.
I mean that is your life and that is something
that you are going to battle and same thing with feeling like
you have enough time to connect with people
and losing your spouse and a lot of cases
that sense of loneliness is going to be real.
So I would say those are true
but they're not things that can't be fixed.
They're not things that can't be worked through.
Some stereotypes or misconceptions that I feel are absolutely false
is that single fathers are not capable of being
as nurturing as single moms.
I simply do not believe that to be true.
And I think that that stereotype came from years and years
of moms and or I should say fathers and mothers
playing certain roles within the lives of their families.
And while it might be true that certain characteristics
and certain emotions come more naturally
for one individual versus the other,
I would not say across the board that it is always
mom versus the dad in terms of those characteristics.
One other stereotype that I would like to put an end to for sure
is that moms play a more important role in the lives
of their kids and fathers.
Yes, this breathes a lot of hope.
Absolutely.
And the other piece of that is that it can be a learned characteristic
it can be a learned quality.
And I think that that is a limiting belief
that a lot of people have is that
however you are today as a parent is how you will be forever.
And that's simply not true.
I mean, that is what personal growth is all about.
And we have the ability to develop these qualities
and to really focus on these areas
that we feel that we want to improve
and we have the ability to make improvements in them.
And as you said, the way that that nurturing
might come across for me versus for you
or for a mom might be different
but it doesn't make it less meaningful or less impactful
in the lives of their kids.
The last episode I did was on paternal postpartum depression
and it was fascinating to really delve deeper into that topic
at some of the causes of that, some of the symptoms as well.
And one of the things that made its way into the discussion
was this misconception by dads that mothers
somehow just magically have it all together
that they go into the pregnancy
and they go into motherhood with this instinct
that is just somehow there of what to do and how to do things.
And I have had several mothers come on this program
and confirm and tell me that that is a lie.
What mothers have done differently
than what you may be seen is that they recognize,
okay, I don't know anything.
And so they take initiative, they read books, they study,
they go to meetings, they ask questions of other people
and they get into these social circles
and share an exchange knowledge.
They do something about it, they're proactive.
And so this breeds hope into dad relationships
because dads can do the same thing.
This is a learned behavior, a learned thing,
not something that's instinctive.
- That's a great point.
I mean, that's speaking to the intentionality of it
and really kind of making a decision that this is what
I know that this is important for me and my role as a parent
and I will just expand on this just slightly further,
if you don't mind and that's that,
there are two aspects to parenting.
And if you break down the parenting piece
and the role of a single father and a single mom
and I think that there is the analytical approach
and there is the emotional approach.
And the analytical approach is the approach
where you are establishing systems and processes
and structure in order to create this sense of stability
and security for your kids.
And that is extremely, extremely important.
And it leads to things like having habits, establishing kind
of habits or chore duties or bed times or curfews
and all of those things are important for kids to have.
But that's only one piece and the other piece
is the emotional piece and that's the piece that allows you
to connect with your kids on a deeper way
for your kids to feel heard and seen and valued
as they are and to fill a sense of connection to you
as the parent.
And I think that I'm bringing this up
because for single parents,
they have to fulfill both of these roles
and they have to sometimes learn the aspect
that has not come as naturally to them.
And it doesn't mean that it will always be
the emotional side that they have to learn.
It could be the analytical side.
Maybe they've been that emotional support
and now they need to learn about how to create
more structure for their family.
But both sides are important and I think that speaks
to how difficult it can be for a single parent
to try to create that whole experience
that allows their kids, puts their kids in an environment
that gives them the greatest chance of thriving.
- I've seen single dads who look like they're always
on top of things and they have their act together
is what I'm seeing just a front or kind of single dad
really haven't figured out
and get to that place where his role is a well oil machine.
- Well, I would say in my experience that it is not a facade
that you can actually or absolutely
as a single father or single mom get to the point
where your life, your family structure runs
like a well oil machine.
But I just want to caution in that we are,
we often what we see on the outside
is not really a good indication of what's going on
on the inside.
And so if you really kind of like lift the curtain
and kind of look behind the curtain,
there is often other things there
that maybe we don't see.
- Besides your coaching service,
are there any resources you would recommend
for dads to help with things like time management,
motivation or even mental health?
- Yes, you know what?
I think for the purpose of this conversation,
I'm going to keep this very simple, simple and easy
because I feel like simple and easy is repeatable.
It's easier to be consistent and consistency
is where the magic happens, right?
It's whenever we do something on a consistent basis.
So these might seem really simple to you in your audience,
but I'm going to throw them out there anyway.
So we all have a smartphone these days
and your smartphone can be a great resource
to you as a father, as a single father.
You can, my suggestion is to take your smartphone
and take your iPhone or whatever you have
and use it today to block off time for your kids,
to block off time for your family
because there's a saying, right,
that what gets scheduled gets done
and I'm not sure why it is that we are so willing to schedule
all of these other external kind of meetings and appointments
and job responsibilities,
but we don't put the same emphasis on our family life.
And so I block off, I mean, I put it in my calendar
and I time block time for my kids and time for my family
and sometimes I'll do this weeks in advance.
So I encourage you to do that.
I think that can be a great resource
and taking that same phone that you have,
you can also, I would also encourage you to do something
very, very simple, set a daily alarm that goes off
at some point where it will go off maybe during your lunch break
or maybe in the morning, as you're getting ready for work,
whatever that might be, that is a reminder to you
to just send a simple text to your kids.
Just send something simple to let them know, hey,
I'm thinking about you, I love you, hope you have a great day.
That is as simple as it comes
and it can make a tremendous impact.
- This next question might be a little uncomfortable
for some dads in the audience,
but I still think it's vitally important to discuss this.
Is there a time and a best way for a single dad
to handle dating with respect to the emotions
and feelings of his children?
- Yeah, this is a hot topic and I will say that
in my experience, there definitely is not a one size fits all
answer to this and the research would actually support that
that it really depends on so many factors.
For instance, what was the nature that caused you
to become a single father in the first place?
It's gonna be very different if that situation was
the death of a spouse versus going through a divorce.
It also might be very different if it involves
if you are raising young children or infants
versus raising teenagers.
And so I'm not trying to skirt this question,
but I'm trying to give context to the answer.
And in short though, I would say that it is pretty well,
it is pretty well received that taking your time
before entering into a dating relationship,
following separation or divorce is recommended.
And in particular, looking at your family
and ensuring that your family has reached a point
of relative stability and that your kids have reached
a point of having this new routine
and all the new changes that have taken place in their lives,
kind of dialed in and a little bit more systematized
versus everything still be a new and chaotic end up in the air.
But the two main things to look at is,
one, are you ready as an individual to start a new relationship?
And two, are your kids ready?
And that first question, only you can answer.
That second one, I would recommend having,
depending on the age of your kids,
having age-appropriate conversations
that are honest and open.
And then also kind of really having in mind
what it is that you would need from a partner,
whether that partner is someone that you're dating
or someone that you're getting serious about.
And in particular, some big red flags are individuals
who do not show flexibility based on your parenting
schedule or individuals who struggle
with the commitment level that you are showing towards your kids
and how that is affecting them and that relationship.
Those are a couple of kind of red flags,
as well as of course the interactions that take place
between the person you're dating and your kids,
which I would strongly recommend waiting
until you know, you've reached the point
where it is a pretty serious relationship
that has a potential of turning into something more long term.
Rob, how can dads listening get a hold of you
with any questions that they have
or get set up with a coaching session with you?
- Yeah, thank you for asking.
I actually have a podcast as well
and the name of my podcast is The Business of Being Dad.
And I release episodes this year
I'm releasing episodes every Tuesday.
And so that is a great way to get a hold of me
or to really find out more about my work and my style
and to just kind of get to know my personality
a little bit and what I have to offer.
But within each of my episodes, within the show notes,
there are links on there to my website, my email,
and to book a free coaching call.
And so I would encourage people to check out the web,
I'm sorry to check out my podcast to subscribe to it.
So it kind of drops into your files every Tuesday
and then reach out to me.
I would love to hear from you.
I have a commitment at this point in my business
that anyone who wants to talk with me, I'll talk with.
So feel free to reach out through email
or to book that free coaching call.
And just so that you know, the free coaching call
is a no pressure, no sales call.
And what I do is I basically run people through
kind of the first part of what would be my first coaching call
if they moved into a full program with me.
But this, the purpose of that free coaching call
is to just get an idea.
What is the biggest obstacle in your life right now?
What is your top need as a parent,
as a single parent, or as a father?
And to just take a look at that
and for you to be able to leave that half hour call
with at least one actionable item,
one actionable step you can take to make progress
in the towards that goal.
And just to make it easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com,
that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.
Go to this episode, look right below the episode description.
I'm gonna have the link to Rob's podcast there.
So you can go click on it.
It'll take you straight to his podcast.
And from there you'll be able to access his website,
his email and any other means to be able to reach out,
connect with him or book a coaching call.
As we close, what is your challenge to dad's listening now?
- My challenge to all of you listening now
is the same challenge I gave myself.
On that night, that transformed my life,
that changed my life.
I challenge each of you to look at yourself
and to ask yourself this question,
what kind of man do I wanna be?
What kind of father do I wanna be?
And what am I going to do to start heading
in that direction today?
- Rob, it has been an honor and a pleasure
to have you on the fatherhoodchallenge.
You've given so many gold nuggets of wisdom
and experience to a lot of dads in the audience
so I know need it badly.
So thank you so much for that, Rob.
- I really appreciate the opportunity.
Thank you.
- Thank you for listening to this episode
of the Fatherhood Challenge.
If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned
in this program or find out more information
about the Fatherhood Challenge, please visit
thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
[ Silence ]
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Did you know that dads can get postpartum depression just like new mothers can? For new dads it’s called paternal postpartum depression or PPPD. It’s possible to have experienced it and not even realize that’s what you were going through because it isn’t talked about with dads to the extent that it is with moms. But my guest is bringing awareness of this diagnosis and what a dad who might be suffering from PPPD can do about it.
My guest is Rachael Schmitz. Rachael is a doctoral student at William Carey University. She has done extensive research on paternal postpartum depression as well as conducting her own qualitative research study and she is here now to bring more awareness to families and the world about PPPD.
You can reach out to Rachael with any questions or participate in her study by emailing her at: rachaelschmitz3@gmail.com
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
-Program Transcript-
Did you know that dads can get post-partum depression
just like new mothers can?
For new dads, it's called paternal post-partum depression
or PPPD.
It's possible to have experienced it
and not even realize that that's what you were going through
because it isn't talked about with dads
to the extent that it's talked about with moms.
But my guest is here to bring awareness
and to bring us conscious to this diagnosis
and what a dad who might be suffering from PPPD
can do about it.
It's all gonna be coming here in just a moment
so don't go anywhere.
- Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge,
a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere
to take great pride in their role
and a challenge society to understand
how important fathers are to the stability
and culture of their family's environment.
Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.
- Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.
My guest is Rachel Schmitz.
Rachel is a doctoral student at William Care University.
She has done extensive research on paternal postpartum depression
as well as conducting her own qualitative research study
and she is here now to bring more awareness to families
and the world about PPPD.
Rachel, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.
-
Hi, how are you?
-
Rachel, why don't we start out by you telling me
how you got involved with studying paternal postpartum depression?
What's your own personal story?
- So my own personal experiences,
I experience postpartum depression with two of my children
and I work as a RN in obstetrics
and so I have a lot of professional experience with it as well.
When I started my doctoral studies,
I knew that postpartum depression was going to be
part of my dissertation at some point.
-
So you started with your own personal struggle with your kids?
-
Yes.
-
How did it go from there to paternal postpartum depression?
What led you to be interested in that?
- That's a great question.
So there is so much research and studies
that have been done on maternal postpartum depression
and that really is something that most people generally
are aware of as a condition that can happen after childbirth.
There's a lot of names that are given to it,
baby blues, different things like that.
They just kind of highlight the hormonal changes
that occur after delivery.
But as I started to do the research
and started to learn more about father's experiencing
or you could say mirroring the symptoms of the mother,
there was very little research out there.
And as I started to think about it and realized
that this is something that not only is not talked about,
but many mothers and fathers really know nothing about this.
And I started to realize this is something that really
needs to be highlighted.
The fathers play a pivotal role in the family
and ignoring this or not making new fathers aware
of something like this that could happen
is not only an unfortunate thing to do,
but it really sets the family up to have some struggles
because of the lack of awareness
and because of the lack of education
from as a healthcare professional,
I think it's really important that we educate patients
on things that potentially could happen
and not acknowledging something as significant
as depression and the new father seemed to be an area
that really needed to be researched more.
- I'll be honest, I hadn't heard of PPPD until last year.
So why aren't more people talking about it?
- Some of the reasons I think people don't talk about it
is the stigmas that go along with mental health.
Mental health is a pretty complicated thing.
It impacts people in different ways.
A lot of fathers may not really feel comfortable
talking about mental health issues.
I have found in my research so far
that a lot of the symptoms that men experience
with postpartum depression can be some of the stereotypical symptoms
like we think about with regular depression.
So sadness, loss of interest, trouble sleeping, sleeping too much,
but in men, they can actually manifest some different symptoms.
So some men will verbalize some reckless behavior,
some increased aggression.
So there is a slightly different manifestation
of the depression in men.
The other thing is that I think experiencing postpartum depression
for a new father, for a man is very different
from a lot of the societal views
and a lot of the societal pressure.
So men have a, there's kind of an underpinning stereotypical.
Men are the providers, they're to be strong
and take care of everything.
And a lot of those symptoms in depression
can kind of contradict some of those traditional stereotypes.
So that's the other bigger reason I think in addition
to the stigma that go with mental health,
that men truly struggle with those symptoms
because it is contradictory to how a lot of men,
at least society, pressures them to look at themselves.
I wanna dig a little bit deeper and really,
or maybe simpler, I wanna talk about
what exactly is paternal postpartum depression?
How is it different from just being depressed?
And what I mean by that is for someone who doesn't really
know what this is, who's hearing about this for the first time,
even postpartum depression in a mother,
for someone who doesn't know,
it makes them scratch their head and think,
that doesn't make any sense.
You've just had the most joyful experience of your life.
There are a lot of people who can't have children,
who would give anything to be able to have that experience.
What in the world are you depressed about?
So this is what I'm trying to speak
what a lot of people may not say but might be thinking.
And so what would you say to those people?
- So I think that's a really common misconception.
And I will share that that belief system
or those thoughts are shared with new mothers as well,
meaning that you have this brand new baby.
This is what you wanted to get pregnant,
to have this baby.
Now the baby is here and you're not very happy.
So a lot of that, actually a lot of that belief
and that viewpoint is what causes new mothers
to feel really guilty about the symptoms that they have
because they're trying to reconcile that in their mind,
that they are joyful, that the baby is here
and they are happy and they do love the baby,
but they can't ignore those symptoms.
So for men, I think a lot of it goes back
to some of the things that they're struggling
with as a new father.
Some of the things that I've already kind of identified
in talking with new fathers are just some of the things
that they struggle with as new dads.
I think most people when they talk about parenthood,
they really just kind of focus on the mother
and what she goes through.
But there can be a lot of trauma for the new fathers.
They're kind of brought into the birth experience
without a lot of education or without a lot of experience
and that new role can be kind of overwhelming.
Obviously it goes without saying
but having a newborn that can be really demanding,
you're sleep deprived, it's exhausting.
It can feel like a cycle, you're just wake up,
feed the baby, go to work, come home,
take care of the baby, go to bed,
it kind of feels like the same thing again and again.
And a lot of that can kind of cause problems
with that role adjustment.
Some of the other issues that I've identified
so far in the research is the struggles
within the relationship.
So that baby causing a bit of a marital strain,
making it a little bit more difficult to communicate
with your spouse, making the communication
or different ways that you handle things
have to be kind of different.
So men and women are very different.
They communicate very differently.
I may say something to my husband
and he may hear what I said and interpret it a different way.
So the other issue really is just the symptoms of depression.
Some of those symptoms, again,
feeling distance, distracted, pressure
to be a good partner
and really feeling like you're being a failure.
You don't really know how to help kids.
A lot of dads I talk to,
they have no experience with childcare prior to being a dad
so they don't really know how to help the baby.
And that's very frustrating
and actually can make them feel as a failure in that new role.
So there's a lot of things that kind of go into that role formation
and having very little information prior to
and then not really feeling very comfortable in that role afterwards
can really make dad struggle
and feel really ignored, maybe confused
as they transition to the new role.
You go from being an independent person
to now you're responsible for a whole nother human being.
So it's very stressful.
So if you're experiencing any of this
that we're talking about,
these are the warning signs
that you might have paternal postpartum depression, correct?
Yes.
So some of the typical depression symptoms
that I would say most people are pretty aware of.
There are some different things that you'll see in fathers.
So maybe some risk taking,
maybe just feeling kind of distracted.
In other words, just going through the motions
of what you need to do
but not really being present in the moment,
not really enjoying that interaction
so you're caring for the baby
but you're not really enjoying or present in that moment.
You're just kind of going through the motions.
A lot of that is the depression
and it's unfortunately a barrier for fathers to that role,
to embracing their children.
Yeah, and I want to, there's something else too
I want to really get into
and I've gotten into this with other episodes and other guests
and I think it's really time to bring this up again
for dads that are listening.
And that is there's this stereotype
that mothers have it all together,
that they know everything, that they are prepared
and everything is just there.
It is intuitive, it is somehow just ingrained in their DNA
all the way through the birth experience
and after the birth experience
to know what to do,
to know how to care for the baby and everything.
And what I'm here to tell you to be very blunt about
is that is a flat out lie.
So no, mothers do not have it all figured out.
So there's a big similarity there in the anxiety
and the worry and the concern the dads have,
the feeling of that you're just not prepared enough
that you don't know enough, that you're not ready.
Those are the same emotions that mothers go through.
- Yeah, I would agree 100%.
And I will say there maybe is a little bit of preparation
for those moms that maybe did baby set as teenagers
or maybe had younger siblings that they cared for.
There is a little bit of an advantage
in that they do know a little bit as far as taking care
of the basic needs of the infant.
But I will say it kind of goes back to those traditional roles
that men are supposed to be tough
and that is really contradictory to somebody
that's really vulnerable or loving.
And it really is a difficult thing for fathers
to navigate that when they really don't know what to expect.
They're really used to kind of protecting that mother
and having that role.
And then when you get into a situation
like a complicated emergency delivery
or something like that, that is traumatic.
That is traumatic for the mother.
It's traumatic for the father.
And the fathers are kind of left feeling just empty
inside as far as the experience that they went through.
And because of some of those societal roles
that I think men play, it's difficult for them to reach out
and say, "Hey, my mental health is struggling.
"I'm really having a hard time with this.
"I'm really upset.
"I'm having trauma from what I witnessed."
Women as being the patient in that scenario,
and I know this is a clinical professional.
Women's needs are being addressed somewhat in that way,
in that the OB staff is addressing the mom
and they're addressing, they can see that she's scared
and that she's nervous and some of that
is being addressed through the staff.
But for dads, they are really put on the outside
of that equation, so to speak, where they are present,
however, they're not part of that management
from the healthcare perspective.
So their scene is just an ancillary part of that.
And then when that young family goes home,
that mom has had a little bit of interaction
with healthcare staff to assess how she's doing
and how she's coping.
And the dad is not part of that equation at all.
So some of that goes back to the dads feeling somewhat ignored
in the whole dynamic or the whole equation.
And some of that, some of those feelings actually
are a barrier to some of the bonding that takes place.
Some of the education that's provided to the dads,
at least from my study so far,
to say that it's been deficient would really be an understatement.
You know, there's been maybe one person that's mentioned
about postpartum depression for men
and a lot of dads express that they had no education about it.
Some of that translates to dads not feeling
that their role is valuable, which is really sad,
because like I said before, they play a crucial role
in that situation.
- If the dad was raised himself in a very harsh home,
a harsh environment where there was physical abuse
present, where there was a lot of verbal abuse,
maybe even sexual abuse that was present, abuse in any form.
And that was the environment that he grew up in.
There's going to be a lot of anxiety,
a lot of negative emotions that could rise up around the birth,
a lot of insecurity, a feeling of, you know,
why would I be prepared for this, given how I was raised
and how the upbringing that I had.
And that can really, that alone can cause a dad to shut down
if he's unaware that that's what's happening
and he hasn't done anything to seek out help for that.
- Yes, and I would even add to that,
that some of the trauma that the young fathers
have experienced or witnessed through their emergency
or traumatic birth, some of that trauma translates
to like a PTSD where, you know,
their baby spent a little bit of time in the NICU
and that beeping monitor sound that is,
is heard every moment while that baby is in the NICU
can be a little bit of a trauma trigger for them
where they hear that and it immediately brings them back
to that really difficult situation.
And there is a little bit of a compensation
or overcompensation for men that may become
from a fatherless situation
or maybe their fathers were present,
but they were very stern, difficult, you know,
how you mentioned it.
Maybe those fathers don't really know how they want
to be as fathers, but they know they don't want
to be like their father.
So they will try to compensate in another extreme
where they're trying to kind of,
they don't want to be the father that they were raised by.
Some of that contributes to some of that confusion
and some of the guilt, some of the shame
that goes with depression because again,
that really contradicts that belief system
of how these men are supposed to be very stoic
and they're supposed to be able to just manage everything
and control everything and protect their wife
and protect their baby.
And at the same time, they're struggling with something
that they can't ignore either
that's happening within themselves.
- Do we know anything about the number of dads
who have been undiagnosed?
- So the studies currently show that one in 10 fathers
have paternal postpartum depression.
I actually believe that it's a lot higher than that
and the reason that I believe that is--
-
I think so too.
-
A lot of the fathers that I've talked to
have shared symptoms of postpartum depression,
but then when I will discuss my study
and reaching out to them to have a conversation,
a lot of those fathers will, I would say ghost me,
they don't wanna talk to me.
And I think a lot of that comes with the guilt
and maybe the stigma of mental health.
So again, it's still a very well documented issue
within mental health that people have a lot of guilt,
a lot of shame when it comes to mental health.
Some of the fathers have verbalized,
you know, they have some guilt expressing some issues
after the delivery because the focus is typically
on the mother and they feel like they're taking
the spotlight away from her in some sense.
So they don't wanna do that.
They recognize the role that she played in the delivery.
So they kinda wanna give her that moment
to make sure that her needs are met.
But there really is the stigma of mental health
and I do believe that it's more than one in 10.
I think that it's probably a lot higher than that.
But again, men just ignoring those symptoms,
maybe not wanting to get the help.
Those men are just not, they're not counted
because they're not seeking help.
- How prepared are birth centers,
delivery departments and hospitals
and birth-themed care providers at educating mothers
and fathers about paternal postpartum depression?
- Unfortunately, I would say most, it's abysmal.
It's not something that is generally talked about
beforehand and when it is mentioned,
sometimes during that postpartum stay,
it might be mentioned in passing,
just some education about it,
but it's mentioned in a way that is not really conducive
to men learning.
Meaning if you go into the hospital, your wife has a baby.
You might be up for 24 to 48 hours yourself,
not getting sleep, not really eating well.
You're in the hospital with your wife who's having a baby.
And then that postpartum stay that one to two day period after,
that's not an ideal time to educate somebody
who is sleep deprived, who is not mentally,
you could say, really checked in.
The time to really do that, I feel,
is during that pregnancy period.
So you have eight or nine months
where you have that captive audience
and they're coming in for the prenatal checks
and the mother is coming in to check on her
and check on the baby.
That really to me is a more ideal time
to kind of bring that father into the education
and start it then.
Rachel, if I could have gone back
and done both of the birth experiences all over again,
do you know what I would have done differently
or what I would have changed if I could?
What's that?
I would have had a therapist before the birth
and I would have had a therapist, the same therapist,
I would have been seeing that same therapist after the birth.
That's what I would have done differently.
I think that's a great idea.
I think that if new fathers had that support,
if they had that resource that they could put in place,
I think you would see a lot less problems afterward.
So there are some studies that have shown
that fathers that are experiencing depression
have some long term issues with the child,
meaning they've done some studies
where they have evaluated fathers
that screened positive for depression
and followed up with those children at 18 years old
and there are higher rates of mental health issues
like anxiety, depression.
There are some things that they've identified as far
as knowledge as far as testing, standardized testing,
meaning those kids did not score as high
in the group that had those fathers that were depressed.
And some of that makes a little bit of sense
when you think about somebody that's depressed,
that is present in their child's life
but is just going through the motions,
that that would block some of that interaction,
some of that learning that's necessary for that child
especially as you have a brand new child
whose brain is growing and changing every day.
So there are some long term studies
that look at some of the potential issues.
And then on a short term basis,
I don't know that I'm sure there's been some studies
that have been done but I would just presume
that if you are having some fighting,
arguing, marital issues,
probably much higher divorce rate,
the other thing that most serious I would say
is that some fathers, as they struggle to adjust to that new role,
they question their presence in that family.
And in other words, start to think,
well maybe it would be easier if I was not here.
So some fathers actually do convey suicidal thoughts
just because of the fact that they don't really see
where they fit in
and they're struggling with attaining that new role.
So to them, it's kind of a reasonable job
that you would say, well, yeah, if I don't fit in here
and I feel like I'm failing at this job
and there's so much pressure to do well in this job
but even though I feel like I'm doing a terrible job,
a lot of dads will become suicidal
and think to themselves, it might be easier if I'm not here.
What should a dad do if he believes
that he's experiencing symptoms or the warning signs
of paternal pros part of depression?
A couple things.
The first thing I would say is talk to your partner about it.
I have not talked to anybody so far that has said
when they brought this up with their partner
that their partner was not supportive.
So the first thing would be to reach out to your partner,
be honest about how you're feeling
and let them know that you are really, really struggling.
The next thing I would say is reach out to your healthcare
professional, let them know what you're struggling with,
let them know your symptoms.
If you reach out to a healthcare professional
and you feel like you are blown off
or they're not taking your symptoms seriously
or you just feel like they're not really hearing
what you're saying, go to another healthcare professional
just like therapists.
You might find a very good therapist
and the two of you might click
and you may feel like they really understand you
and they're really helpful
or you may find that you're not really clicking
with that therapist.
Go find another therapist.
So go find another healthcare professional.
There's a lot of issues with mental healthcare in this country.
I think most people would agree with that.
It's difficult to make an appointment.
It's difficult to make any kind of connection
to any therapist.
A lot of people fear that they're gonna get blown off.
A lot of people really do,
we'll say that they were kind of blown off by their therapist
or maybe they had a bad experience
with the provider or the psychiatrist.
Mental health is important to your physical health.
If your mental health is struggling,
that is gonna impact your physical health
and until there's coverage that backs that up,
people are gonna struggle.
So you could reach out to your EAP
and at least try to get those handful of visits in.
Those might be enough to get you past that acute phase
and then maybe consider or try to get somebody
that will at least participate with your insurance
and then you pay co-pays.
But mental health is just critical to physical health.
Rachel, how can listeners follow you
to learn more about your work or ask questions
related to paternal post-partum depression?
I have a website that I can share with you.
My school website, if anybody would like to participate
in the study, feel free to reach out to me.
And I am just happy to be working in mental health
as far as this area.
It's something that both personally and professionally
I have experience with.
And I'm really, I have two sons and a daughter
and I'm just passionate about making sure
that they don't face some of these issues
when they have kids.
I'm gonna also put all of the contact information
on the Fatherhood Challenge website.
So if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com,
that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com,
go to this episode, look right below the episode description
and all of the contact information and links
will be posted right there for your convenience.
And as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?
My challenge for dads listening now would be to,
if you're struggling with symptoms of depression,
to reach out, talk to your partner, talk to your friends,
talk to your family.
The more that we talk about it,
the more that we make this part of our everyday conversation,
that will help remove a lot of that stigma.
And if you are reaching out to somebody
and you perceive that they're not addressing
your concerns adequately,
find another provider that will.
If you're talking to a therapist
and you feel like it's not helping,
they don't understand what you're going through.
Find another therapist.
You may have to find several therapists
before you find the one that works for you.
But mental health is important.
It's not something that you should ignore.
It does impact your relationship.
It does impact your child.
And it impacts you.
It impacts your physical health.
So it's not something to be ignored.
If you don't feel like you're getting the help that you need,
continue to advocate for yourself.
And don't be afraid to reach out.
If you're struggling, it's okay to say that you're struggling
and get the help that you need.
Rachel, it has been an honor having you
on the Fatherhood Challenge to talk about something so important.
Thank you so much for all of the hard work
that you've done towards talking about this issue.
The effects of this will be felt for many generations
because of what you're doing.
So thank you so much.
Thank you for what you do.
I appreciate what you do as well.
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood
Challenge.
If you would like to contact us,
listen to other episodes.
Find any resource mentioned in this program
or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge.
Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.
That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.
I'd like to pause and thank our proud sponsor
of The Fatherhood Challenge, Zincaster.
If you've thought about podcasting before
and realized that you need a lot of different tools
and services, those days are over.
With Zincasters all in one podcast production platform,
you can create your podcast all in one place
and distribute to Spotify, Apple, and other major destinations.
But the reason I personally use and trust them
with the production of this syndicated radio program
is their professional broadcast quality sound.
There is no better time than now to start your podcast
using Zincaster for all your needs.
Go to zincaster.com/pricing and use my code.
And you'll get 30% off your first month of any Zincaster paid plan.
I want you to have the same easy experiences I do
for all my podcasting and content needs.
It's time to share your story.
time to share your story.
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Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
According to the American Psychological Association, the divorce rate in the United States is estimated to be around 40-50% for first marriages. The divorce rate for second marriages is higher than for first marriages, with estimates ranging from 60-67%, and even higher for third marriages according to the American Psychological Association. While most marriages don’t begin with divorce in mind, when divorce does happen, there are few resources that help dads navigate that reality. My guest will shed some light on what a dad facing divorce can expect. He will also share important tips every dad facing divorce needs to know
My guest is Andy Heller. Andy never thought he would end up an expert on divorce. But after his own divorce, he saw a crucial hole in the self-help space for men and women navigating through divorce so he wrote a book called Take the High Road: Divorce with Compassion for Yourself and Your Family.
If you would like to know more about what Andy is doing, connect with him or get his book you can visit: https://takethehighroaddivorce.com
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you’re considering starting your own business and are not sure where to start or what’s involved, my guest is a husband and father and will be sharing his story of how he started his own marketing company and what steps he took to get there. He will also share simple things you can do right away to take those first steps towards being an entrepreneur.
My guest is Robert Bradbury. Robert started his own marketing company called Mighty B Marketing, a full service marketing company that does everything from website design to video/audio production. Robert is here to share his story with us and inspire other dads who are considering becoming entrepreneurs.
You can reach Robert Bradbury and learn more about Mighty B Marketing at: https://mightybmarketing.com/
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Pregnancy centers are typically geared towards women for obvious reasons. But what would it look like to walk into one where men are equally welcomed and helped? My guest has dedicated his life’s work to creating such places.
Tony Trammell is the founder of Dadhood, an organization whose mission is to help pregnancy resource centers establish and equip men’s ministries. Tony is also a seasoned trainer writing curriculum and presenting at conferences to educate and equip other organizations. Tony is also an author having written 2 books and counting.
You can reach Tony at tony@dadhood.org
Learn more about Dadhood at:
https://dadhood.org/
https://www.facebook.com/dadhood.org
Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you grew up without a father in your life, the wound is not only painful but a constant presence all of your life. Knowing what to do with that pain can be the difference between becoming a great father or husband and losing it all. My guest will lay out the steps to finding healing and purpose in your life so you can be whole and complete.
My guest is John Smithbaker. John is an author, speaker and founder of Fathers in the Field. He’s also an alpha male activator. John’s passion and focus is to help men recapture their divinely assigned roles of Pastor, Provider, and Protector in the home.
You can learn more and connect with John Smithbaker at:
https://www.manenoughtoforgive.com/
https://www.fathersinthefield.com/
Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you were abandoned by your father as a child, you are not alone. Sadly the world is filled with abandoned men who had to figure out how to become a man and a father and stop the cycle. I am one of those fathers who had to figure it out and so is my guest. He will share his powerful story with us.
My guest is Steve Anderson. Steve is the founder of The Best Dad Project and was the executive director of the Boys to Men Mentoring Network of Minnesota from 2011 to 2022 and he has led men and boys through transformative weekends in multiple states across the U.S. and internationally. He is a Certified Professional Coach and completed the Certificate Program in Applied Neuroscience from The Neuroscience School.
To Learn more about Steve and The Best Dad Program visit:
https://steveanderson.coach/
https://www.facebook.com/thebestdadproject
To connect personally with Steve, email him at:
steve@steveanderson.coach
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this episode we’re going to hear some stories and reflect on what is possible. My guest has been involved with bringing incarcerated fathers and their children together through education, specifically reading and she will share those inspiring stories with us.
This episode's guest is Deborah McNelis. Deborah is the author of The First 60 Days & The Neuro-Nurturing® Interaction Packets Series. She is also the founder of Brain Insights, an International Speaker • Initiator of The First 60 Days Movement uniting all those that are making a difference. She has been on The Fatherhood Challenge before to talk about brain development and nurturing in babies and how fathers play a critical role in this process. Now she is back with us again to share some inspiring stories with us and give us actionable steps any dad can do starting now to help their kids learn and develop at their highest potential.
To learn more about Deborah McNelis and her work visit: https://www.braininsightsonline.com/
To view the PDF on The Brain Basics Quick Start Guide called Brain Basics, that Deborah mentioned at the end of the episode, click on the link below.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:7bcebba4-8c8f-37c2-afbb-2c4f0567c2e3
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you’re that dad who has been repeatedly forced to choose between your employer and your family’s needs, this episode is for you. If you’ve faced discrimination in the workplace for being a dad or for any other reason such as being a returning citizen, this episode is for you. In this episode you will hear real insight for how to get ahead of these challenges.
My guest is Joe Ruiz Jr. Joe is a Social Media Business Specialist and owns his own business called Social Eye Marketing. He helps businesses attract qualified leads using social media. And he’s here to help dads who are struggling with work family conflicts to find real solutions.
You can learn more about Social Eye Marketing at https://www.socialeyemarketing.com/
You can find Joe Ruiz Jr. on Social Media at:
https://www.facebook.com/jcruizjr
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jruizjr/
https://www.instagram.com/thejoeruizjr/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this episode you're going to hear from a guest who will be sharing his stories and experiences from working with incarcerated dads in the infamous San Quentin State Prison. He will talk about their challenges and and how the work he has done and is still doing is changing their lives and what we can do to support such efforts.
Dr Perrilliat is an ordained minister and the Founder and Executive Director of “Man 2 Man - Urban Youth Advocate." He's been active in prison ministry, serving the men who are incarcerated at San Quentin State Prison since 1995. Through this ministry, Stewart helps facilitate change in their lives by providing life skills and using the word of God as an instrument for transformation. I must also mention he is a father of 3 kids.
You can connect with Dr. Perrilliat and learn more by visiting: https://www.man2man-uya.org/
You can also reach Dr. Perrilliat by email at: man2man@man2man-uya.org
This program is sponsored by Realizing Your Dreams. Realizing Your Dreams is a business dedicated to supporting small business dreamers. We offer a range of services to help entrepreneurs achieve their goals, including analytical strategic support, collaborative development of marketing and educational materials, and assistance with creating handouts and training decks.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In our day in age there is a focus on self-reliance, pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps. This philosophy is more popular than ever among dads. But is this this strategy healthy or the way fatherhood was designed to be? In this episode we discuss how fatherhood was originally designed to work and how fathering alone doesn't have to be your reality. If you grew up without a father in your life we will also talk about how to fill that void.
This program is sponsored by Realizing Your Dreams. Realizing Your Dreams is a business dedicated to supporting small business dreamers. We offer a range of services to help entrepreneurs achieve their goals, including analytical strategic support, collaborative development of marketing and educational materials, and assistance with creating handouts and training decks.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Imagine growing up without a father's presence, guidance, and support. For millions of children around the world, this is their reality when a father is incarcerated. We'll hear accounts about individuals who have experienced this absence and how it has shaped their lives. We'll also explore the challenges faced by these children, the emotional toll they endure, and the barriers they encounter in maintaining a relationship with their incarcerated fathers. We'll delve into the importance of maintaining these connections and the potential for positive outcomes when fathers are actively involved in their children's lives, even from behind bars.
My guest is author, speaker, family life coach and Family Relationships Specialist Dr. Roland Hill. Among a long list of leadership responsibilities he is known for, one his most known roles is leading a National Support Ministry for Prison Ministries. His work involves bringing a message of hope and economic empowerment to prisoners, developing curriculum for prisoners, and training churches and organizations in Prison Ministry.
To connect with Dr. Roland Hill, learn more about Prisoners "R" Us Ministries or donate to this ministry visit: https://iagfoundation.mykajabi.com/
This program is sponsored by Realizing Your Dreams.Realizing Your Dreams is a business dedicated to supporting small business dreamers. We offer a range of services to help entrepreneurs achieve their goals, including analytical strategic support, collaborative development of marketing and educational materials, and assistance with creating handouts and training decks.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you’re a dad who’s facing divorce or has already faced prison time or some other cause of parental separation and you’re struggling with how you’re going to hold your family together or maintain those connections, my guest has been there. Having already faced divorce and served time in California’s famous San Quentin prison while staying in his children’s lives, He will share how he stayed in his children's lives against overwhelming obstacles.
Wayne Boatwright is a writer and speaker and spends his time working with dads and anyone else struggling with addiction and encouraging dads to stay in their children's lives without excuse.
You can connect with Wayne Boatwright here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wayneboatwright/
To connect with the fellowship of men mentioned in this episode for support and positive company visit: https://newcanaansociety.org/
To read Wayne's writings visit:
https://wayneboatwright.medium.com/
To view the story of Wayne's daughter mentioned in the episode visit:
https://youtu.be/ZumMauQP5_M?si=uj9-NV6ahvTjKkxy
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Dads, what do you want your kids, grandkids, maybe even your grandkids to remember you for? How would you want your wife to describe you?
While it is impossible for any dad to live and leave a good legacy on his own power, there is a sure way to leave the lasting positive legacy you’ve wanted to leave for generations. My guest Rick Johnson is going to give us actionable steps that you can start now and begin leaving that legacy today.
Rick Johnson is a bestselling author, speaker and founder of Better Dads. Rick’s passion and purpose is addressing the urgent need to empower men to serve their families first and then their communities.
To connect with Rick or learn more about him visit: https://betterdads.net/
To get his books visit: https://amzn.to/48o0ash
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Many fathers have struggled with raising spiritual kids as well as with their own spirituality. The evidence can be felt in churches where there are few to no children or young families attending and the church is struggling to grow. Many churches have very few men attending compared to women. What is going on with men and spirituality? What is going on in the home? How do we turn this around?
My guest is Author, Speaker, Coach and Pastor G. F. Watkins. Pastor Watkins honed his leadership skills starting as an All American athlete and coach. After coaching he became a pastor at his home church for 20 years. He then used his leadership skills and experience as a pastor to plant many churches around the globe and train the next generation of God’s leaders to raise up powerful ministries. But there is something about fatherhood that plays an essential part in all of this and Pastor Watkins shares what that is in this episode.
You can connect with G.F. Watkins, and learn more about what he's doing here: https://www.gfwatkins.org/
To learn more about his retreats for fathers and sons visit: https://www.intensemen.com/ and https://www.jordanranch.org/
To get any of G.F. Watkins books visit:
Take Your Place: https://amzn.to/48ehQXc
The Alpha Male: https://amzn.to/3PzFEN5
G-Men: Revised 20 Years Later PROOF!: https://amzn.to/44Opa9a
Test Me! Unlocking the Malachi Mystery: https://amzn.to/44QMcfN
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this inspiring episode, we explore the power of dads teaching financial literacy to their kids. Join us as we hear powerful examples from my guest Antoine Johnson taking on the role of a financial educator in his child's life. From teaching the value of money and budgeting to introducing the concepts of saving and investing, dads can empower their kids to make smart financial decisions from an early age. Tune in to discover practical tips, engaging activities, and valuable resources that can help any dad become a financial mentor to their children.
Antoine Johnson is a speaker and coach helping men and fathers heal from the emotional pain and trauma caused by the absence of their father so they can grow into effective and nurturing caregivers. He is also the founder of Grace & Johnson Enterprises LLC, a company that inspires Christian couples to be aligned financially, to find peace with their money and relationships by managing their money wisely.
You can learn more about Antoine and connect with him at:
To find some of the learning resources mentioned in this episode click on the links below:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this conversation we focus on what makes a father daughter relationship so special and important and the impact it can have to improve the world around us. My guest Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield also shares a few of her many valuable tips and resources that WILL help you connect closer to your daughter or daughters
Dr. Michelle Watson Canfield is the founder of the Abba Project, the host of The Dad Whisperer Podcast and she’s the author of two books: Dad, Here’s What I Really Need from You, A Guide for Connecting with Your Daughter’s Heart and Let’s Talk: Conversation Starters for Dads and Daughters.
You can connect with Dr. Michelle, learn more or purchase her books here: https://www.drmichellewatson.com/
You can learn more about the Abba Project here: https://www.drmichellewatson.com/theabbaproject
Listen to Dr. Michelle's podcast The Dad Whisperer here: https://www.drmichellewatson.com/podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dad-whisperer-podcast/id1208249241
https://open.spotify.com/show/6p0ZFUtXZo0mIHPhos1Ia2
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
What do you do when you feel betrayed and abandoned by your own father, someone who is supposed to love and care for you unconditionally, unselfishly? How do you learn to forgive and live free from the anger inside?
Author, filmmaker and speaker John Finch knows exactly what it means to have his father abandon him at a young age and to carry the anger and hurt that comes with it. John shares his story about how he overcame alcoholism, and anger with his dad finding freedom and forgiveness.
You can learn more about John Finch, his book and movie The Father Effect, visit here: https://thefathereffect.com/
Find John Finch on social media here:
https://www.facebook.com/TheFatherEffect
https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-father-effect/
https://www.instagram.com/thefathereffect/
Have you or someone you know already gone through an abortion?
She might have been your girlfriend, or your wife, just a friend or even your daughter. Maybe you encouraged her to have the abortion, or maybe she gave you no choice in the matter. Whatever your level of involvement, the decision has lasting consequences. The struggle with guilt, shame and depression is very real. For men the emotions are very sharp, painful and complicated just as it is for women. It’s easy to feel alone, confused and torn up. But you don’t have to struggle alone. There is help, there is hope and there are answers.
Jill Marquis. Jill is the Director of Abortion Recovery and Care. She is also the author of Reclaiming Fatherhood, a Bible study for men seeking healing after an abortion.
You can connect with Jill Marquis, order the book Reclaiming Fatherhood or connect with the authors to get help and support by visiting: https://abortionhealing.org/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
When we think of fatherhood, we think of biological fathers. Yet fatherhood is so much more than this! There are men who are giants because they are willing to step up and be fathers to kids who have no father in their life. In this episode you’re going to meet one of them.
Ray Biggerstaff is not only a devoted father and husband but is also a foster dad.
You can email Ray Biggerstaff with your questions at: raybiggerstaff@gmail.com
Is there such a thing as a fair fight? If so, what exactly does a fair fight look like? What exactly does it mean to win a fight? Jonathan Catherman shares his tips and secrets for dealing with conflicts in your home while still being a great example to your kids.
Jonathan Catherman is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, podcast host and the founder of 1M Mentoring.
You can learn more about Jonathan Catherman order any of his books and connect with him at https://thecathermans.com/
You can listen to his Raising Them Ready Podcast here:
https://rss.com/podcasts/raising-the-ready/
Grief is a very uncomfortable experience for dads but we all go through it at some point in our life. Bryan Gallant shares his personal experience of losing his two dear children in a car accident and nearly losing his wife. Bryan talks about how we can deal with our pain and find purpose and God through the loss.
Bryan Gallant is the author of Undeniable, An Epic Journey Through Pain.
You can find and purchase Undeniable here:
You can email Bryan at:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Dads, what you choose to do or not to do in the first 60 days of your baby's life will not only affect the rest of your baby's life but will affect yours as well. My guest, Deborah McNelis explains this in more detail.
Deborah is an Early Brain Development Specialist, & Neuro-Nurturing Connector. She is also the founder of Brain Insights and a sought after international keynote speaker, trainer and author. Deborah also created the term Neuro-Nurturing.
You can connect with Deborah and learn more about Brain Insights here:
https://www.braininsightsonline.com/
To receive your First 60 Days Booklet, click here:
https://www.braininsightsonline.com/pages/customized-neuro-nurturing-packets
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Clare Stead has been a guest before on an episode called An App For New Dads. Now she's back to talk about how dads can gain a huge advantage in their parenting during the first 60 days. Clare shares a few specific tips for dads in those first 60 days that will make all of the difference in who their babies become as adults.
Clare Stead is a world renown educator, eLearning specialist and researcher. She is also the founder of the famous Oliiki App which helps dads develop their baby's brain within the first 1,000 days.
You can follow Clare and get the Oliiki App here:
Here are the 8 tips you can use as examples for integrating jobs and tasks in your life as learning and development opportunities for your baby.
https://www.oliikiapp.com/blog/8-ways-to-make-everyday-moments-into-learning-moments
As promised, here are some examples of what success can be for dads. If you watch each one I can promise you it will make your day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS0Ha08CHwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzdf\_qAy5s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CejhQC9hUO8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4abiHdQpc
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
I had a powerful conversation with Vince DiCaro from Care Net as we talked about how vital it is to form support systems equally for dads as we do mothers. A supported dad equals a supported mother. We also talked about some of the reasons abortion is considered as an option for unplanned pregnancies and the ways Care Net can help bring a support community to save a family and life.
Vince DiCaro is the Chief Outreach Officer at Care Net.
You can learn more about Care Net, find ways to help or donate at:
You can reach the National Fatherhood Initiative at:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
I enjoyed my conversation with Best-Selling Author, Speaker & 6th Degree Black Belt Master Rich Grogan. We had an in depth discussion about how to help your kids deal with bullying by mastering the ABC's of becoming bullyproof.
Get Becoming Bully Proof here:
You can connect with Rich Grogan here:
https://grogansbullyproof.com/
Find Rich Grogan on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/warriorconfidence
Find Rich Grogan on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/grogansbullyproof1/
Find Rich Grogan on LinkedIn at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mastergrogan/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
I was greatly inspired by my conversation with National Fatherhood Reentry Speaker and Author Sharmain Harris. Sharmain told me his personal story of how he went from serving time to serving fathers by helping former inmates reentering society to stay connected with their children.
Sharmain has been an educator and trainer for the family services space giving them the tools and skills to motivate reentering fathers in a positive and helpful way.
To learn more about Shamain Harris and connect with him visit:
https://www.facebook.com/Sharmainharris1
https://www.instagram.com/sharmainharris/
You can purchase Sharmain's book here:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Serving your family can be a challenge when you work in a corporate or career culture that is not family friendly or family aware. My conversation with keynote speaker, franchise expert and business adviser John W. Francis was very helpful as he shares his wisdom about how to navigate a career and its challenges to serving your family's needs.
John W. Francis is not only the founder of Johnny Franchise but also the founding father of Fathers Eve and Co-Organizer of City Dad's Group.
You can connect with John W. Francis at: https://www.johnnyfranchise.com/
To learn more about franchising and find a good fit for you visit:
To learn more about City Dad's Group visit:
To learn more about Fathers Eve visit:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you enjoy really great true stories you won't want to miss this episode. Dr. Torri J. Evans-Barton shares her own story of how she was united with her real father as an adult. She also shares the powerful stories of other dads she and her foundation The Fatherless Generation Foundation Inc. have work so hard to reunite with their children. In her stories and work she breathes hope into the relationships of dads and their children and why dads matter so much globally.
Dr. Torri J is the founder and CEO of The Fatherless Generation Foundation Inc. She and her foundation have been responsible for reuniting over 8,000 fathers and with their children.
To learn more and connect with The Fatherless Generation Foundation Inc. visit: https://www.tfgf.org/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Pastor Taariq Patel shared his story with me of growing up as a child in a verbally and physically abusive home and experiencing abandonment. He also shared his powerful secret with me for stopping the abuse cycle with his children and you will get to hear it in this episode.
Taariq Patel is a pastor who freely shares his testimony, wisdom and experience with those who are struggling with abuse patterns.
You can email Pastor Patel directly at:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Are your kids not listening to you? Do you feel like you have to yell to get their attention? Parminder Mann shares some simple tips that will make parenting much easier and motivate them to not only respect you but to take responsibility for their words and actions.
Parminder Mann is the author of The Mindset of the Extraordinary Dad and runs his own business as a certified NLP Practitioner.
You can get his book here:
To lean more about Parminder Mann and his practice visit:
https://www.brainpowercoaching.co.uk/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
If you're feeling like you're at or near the end of your line as a dad and you're struggling to hold your life and family together, this episode is for you. My conversation with TEDx speaker, and author Tommy Maloney was nothing short of healing and hopeful Tommy works with fathers who are broken or feeling broken and gives them a pathway to healing and strength while making their families stronger and happier as well.
Tommy just released his new book "My Dad's Advice at 5:04am." You can learn more about Tommy and order his book by visiting https://blendingthefamily.com/
You can reach Tommy by emailing him at tommy@blendingthefamily.com
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Can dads have it all? Kyle Carnohan shares the answer and some of his secrets to becoming a father who serves his family, is physically healthy and successful at his career. Kyle shares his struggles and how he changed his mindset to become a man, husband and father many want to be.
Kyle Carnohan is the founder and CEO of Super Human Fathers, a company that helps fathers reach their fitness goals and excel in all areas of their life. He is also a firefighter by trade.
You can reach Kyle at:
https://www.instagram.com/superhumanfathers/?hl=en
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Scott Grant, MD, MPH has a big heart for helping millennial dads better connect with their kids and find joy in parenting while being more confident. In this episode Dr. Grant shares the secrets of time and stress management so you can be at your best for your family.
Dr. Grant is a pediatrician and the founder of Docs2Dads. Dr. Grant also hosts his podcast called Docs2Dads.
To learn more about Docs2Dads and connect with Dr. Grant visit:
https://www.instagram.com/docs2dadspod/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/drscottpeds/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Jim McKenzie shares his story of delivering all 7 of his kids at birth. He also shares his wisdom from over 25 years of experience raising 7 kids, having a strong marriage and balancing a career.
Jim McKenzie is the founder of High Achieving Dads, a coaching program for dads who want to be at their best in both their families and careers, also offering master classes for those who want to take their personal development to the next level.
To learn more about Jim and High Achieving Dads visit:
https://www.highachievingdads.com/
https://www.highachievingdads.com/newsletter
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Strahan Coleman is a husband and father of 3 very energetic boys. Strahan talks about the challenges and dark places he's faced in his life and how this led him from starting a prayer life to integrating God into his daily life details as his friend. He shares how this experienced reduced his anxiety and gave him a peace he needed to become a better husband and father. Strahan also shares some powerful ways he has taught his kids to have a prayer life and make God their friend too.
Strahan Coleman is a musician and author of several books including Beholding: Deepening Our Experience in God.
To purchase Beholding: Deepening Our Experience in God visit:
To learn more about Strahan Coleman visit:
https://www.commonerscommunion.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Lenora Edwards M.S. CCC-SLP, CHMRP NLP was on a previous episode of The Fatherhood Challenge to talk about speech and brain development in the early years and how dads can improve both. She is back in this episode to talk about how dads can gain control in a conflict and any stressful situation by gaining control of their emotions and mindset. She shares simple tips any dad can do in the heat of any circumstance.
Lenora Edwards is a licensed Speech Pathologist, Success Coach & Teacher with DTB Horizons. Her credentials also include Certified Holographic Memory Resolution® Practitioner, Certified Neurolinguistic Programmer, Board Certified Coach.
To learn more about Lenora Edwards or contact her for help visit:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Geoff Girvitz has become the authority on self care for men. Geoff shares an in-depth look at the history of how men viewed caring for themselves generationally and culturally. He also explains why it is critical for dads to take care of themselves physically and mentally to be at their best for their families. For dads who struggle to find ways to make time for their own care in a busy life, Geoff shares a simple strategy any dad can use to make time for your personal care no matter how busy life gets.
Geoff Girvitz is the founder of Dad Strength, a community and coaching service for purpose-driven dads who want to have regular conversations about the stuff that matters—as fathers and and men.
To learn more about Dad Strength or listen to his podcast visit:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
As a segue from Shoshannah Guerrero's last episode called Graduating Boys, in this episode Shoshannah talks in depth about both the cultural and generational challenges to young adults launching successfully. She also shares realistic tips that any dad can do to help their kids to turn into confident adults and to help their young adults feel better prepared to face life.
Shoshannah has an MA in Marriage and Family Therapy and is the founder of Graduating Boys. She also has her own private practice called DreamWeaver Therapy PLLC.
To learn more about DreamWeaver Therapy PLLC visit:
https://www.dreamweavertherapypllc.com/
To learn more about Graduating Boys visit:
https://www.facebook.com/graduatingboys
To read Breaking Free of Child Anxiety and OCD by Eli R. Lebowitz:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Shoshannah Guerrero talks about her new project and movement called Graduating Boys. Shoshannah shares some of the results of research she's done on how boys are being affected by culture and generational influences within family. She also shares some valuable tips and challenges specifically for dads to help them raise boys into men who are emotionally and mentally ready for life and family.
Shoshannah Guerrero has an MA in Marriage and Family Therapy and is the founder of Graduating Boys. She also has her own private practice called DreamWeaver Therapy PLLC.
You can learn more about Graduating Boys here:
https://www.facebook.com/graduatingboys
To learn more about DreamWeaver Therapy PLLC visit:
https://www.dreamweavertherapypllc.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Christmas time is when we often hear the story of Jesus birth and many songs and references to Mary. Often we forget about Joseph and miss the opportunity to study and learn from his story. And while scripture does not have a whole lot to say about Joseph, Anthony Digmann digs deep into the scriptures we do have to help us get a better understanding of who Joseph was and what fathers of today can learn from his example.
Anthony Digmann has an M.A. in Theology and has taught both high school and university courses. Anthony is also a sought after author and speaker.
To learn more about Anthony Digmann visit:
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Jeffrey Steiner is the Executive Director of Dad's Resource Center. Jeff shares his experience in dealing with family court and the overwhelming bias the courts have agains dads. Jeff explains what goes on in the system and how they think and then shares some of the steps being taken to help bring awareness to court systems of the damage and suffering it causes kids when they are kept from their fathers. He also shares stories and examples of how Dad's Resource Center can help dads who are struggling to stay connected with their kids.
To learn more about Dad's Resource Center visit:
Connect with our Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/dadsrc.org/)
Connect with our Twitter (https://twitter.com/DADSRC\_PA)
Connect with our Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/dadsrc\_pa/)
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Steven Kennedy and Rupesh Bhambwani join in a discussion sharing global perspectives on cultural influences on the way dads parent in different parts of the world. The conversation puts a spotlight on why it is so important for dads to be connected with other dads and the many things we can learn from each other.
Steven Kennedy is the founder of Birthing Dads at https://birthingdads.com.au/. He is also the founder of Prepare Foundation at https://prepare.org.au/. Both organizations aim to educate and encourage dads to be completely engaged before, during and after the birth of their children.
Rupesh Bhambwani is the founder of Cool Dad's Club, a social organization who's purpose is to help dads connect with each other globally and get help, share stories and experiences as well as encourage each other. Cool Dad's Club is available on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/company/cool-dads-club/ and Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/cooldadsclubofficial
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Gary Freeman shares his story of growing up in an abusive religious home and how it impacted his life into adulthood. Gary shares the challenges and steps he took to break the cycle with his family so he could be a better husband and father his kids and community need him to be.
Gary is a keynote speaker and the founder of Major League Dad.
To learn more about Major League Dad or contact Gary, visit:
https://www.majorleaguedad.org/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Speech pathology is not a very common topic among most dads and most are unaware of what a speech pathologist actually does. Lenora Edwards talks to us not only about what a speech pathologist does but why a dad might need one for his child or children. She also provides basic tips any dad can do with their baby or child to help enhance their communication development while bonding as well.
Lenora is a board certified speech language pathologist with Better Speech, a Certified Holographic Memory Resolution® Practitioner, Certified Neurolinguistic Programmer, Board Certified Coach.
You can learn more about Better Speech by visiting:
https://www.betterspeech.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Kenneth Braswell shares some of the amazing accomplishments he's done like starting effective and successful programs that mentor dads while building a support community around them to ensure long term success. His work with dads through Gentle Warriors Academy has not only taught basic parenting skills but has also helped many dads overcome the pain points in their hearts and minds that have kept them from being at their best for their kids.
Kenneth is the founder of Gentle Warriors Academy, Fathers Incorporated and host of the I Am Dad podcast.
To learn more about Gentle Warriors Academy and Fathers Incorporated visit:
https://fathersincorporated.com/
To learn more about Kenneth Braswell visit:
http://www.kennethbraswell.com/
To listen to Kenneth's podcast, I Am Dad visit:
https://iamdad.podbean.com/
Retired NFL running back George Jones has had a career many would envy. You may have known of him from his time as a running back for the Pittsburgh Steelers, Jacksonville Jaguars and the Cleveland Browns. But you may not be familiar with his story of growing up in deep poverty as a kid and how a loving family took him in like a son. George also shares how his new family helped him get to the NFL. George also shares the struggle of learning how to be a great father to his kids and how the men in his life rallied around him to support and teach him the skills he was missing to become a great dad. George's story will inspire all dads to rise and take their role to the next level and not be scared to reach out for help.
To learn more about George Jones or book him to speak you can visit:
https://thepresentdad.com/
To order The Present Dad, visit:
https://a.co/d/4ebXAqp
I had a fascinating conversation with Andy Williams Jr. about why it's so important for fathers to teach their kids a trade or skill. We discuss how that experience can be a great opportunity to bond with our kids. In our discussion we also explore the spiritual connection between the trades and character development.
Andy Williams Jr. is a mentor, speaker and minister. He also owns a painting company and has helped many men and fathers going through tough situations to find their identity and purpose as well as find employment.
You can learn more about Andy Williams Jr. and contact him at:
https://andywilliamsjr.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Jonathan Catherman is a sociologist and educator who has worked in the education field for over 24 years. He speaks worldwide to diverse audiences of all ages and is the author of the bestselling books for teens The Manual to Manhood and The Manual to Middle School. He and his wife founded the 1M Mentoring Foundation which focuses on mentoring character and life skills in youth.
In our conversation Jonathan shares some of this thoughts about manhood and simple things dads can do to teach and model healthy masculinity for their kids while creating a tight bond and making great memories.
To learn more about what Jonathan and his wife Erica are doing visit:
https://thecathermans.com/
To learn about the 1M Mentoring Foundation visit:
https://www.1mmentoring.org/
To purchase his book Raising Them Ready or any of his other books, visit:
https://amzn.to/3yArZ0x
Rupesh Bhambwani founded Cool Dad's Club from his home in Bombay, India (Mumbai). Cool Dad's Club is a social group where dads from all over the world can come together as a global community and share stories and experiences as well as get help with questions and problems.
In this episode, Rupesh and I discuss why it is essential for all dads to be part of a community of dads for dads.
Connect with Cool Dad's Club on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/cooldadsclubofficial
Connect with Cool Dad's Club on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/10484878/
Magnus Moosa learned how to be a father through trial and error encountering the same struggles all other fathers do. But Magnus was persistent in doing the research and searching for answers to his questions, highly motivated to be the best father he could to his kids and a stable rock for his wife. Magnus became sought after by his family and friends for expert advice and coaching. When people everywhere starting coming to him with some of the same questions he decided to pack all of his knowledge into a book to help other dads.
In this episode Magus share some of wisdom and experience with us as he talks about his new book.
You can find Baby Boo-Boos here:
https://amzn.to/3R6R1KO
Take the free quiz here and see where you stand:
magnusmoosa.com
Jake Edling talks about his new book The New Daddy Experience. Jake is also a speaker and dad coach. As a father of 7 kids he shares some of his wisdom from experience such as the 5 baby cries, how to identify them and what the mean. He also talks about how most dads fall into postpartum or post natal depression and what dads can do to get through it. Jake also gives away some of the best kept secrets such as a manual in the form of an app called Oliiki for dads to walk them through parenting in the 1st 1,000 days.
You can purchase The New Daddy Experience here:
https://amzn.to/3TZGvI2
Learn more about Oliiki and how to download here:
https://www.oliikiapp.com/
To learn more about the 5 baby cries visit:
https://www.dunstanbaby.com/
Steven Kennedy has experienced birth trauma and post natal depression when his son was born in 2017. Because of this Seven learned that there was little work being done to educate and help dads through the birth process before, during and after. The idea of dads experiencing birth trauma and post natal depression was unheard of by most including medical professionals. Steven has done extensive research to learn more and uncover more facts about dads who go through this and how they can be better helped. On this episode Steven shares with us what he's learned and how dads can be better prepared for the birth experience before, during and after.
Steven is the founder of Prepare Foundation and Birthing Dads. He has done extensive coaching and spoken at many events to educate the world about the support dads need around a pregnancy.
You fan find out more about the Prepare Foundation here:
https://prepare.org.au/
You can learn more about Birthing Dads here:
https://www.birthingdads.com.au/
You can learn more about DadPad here:
https://thedadpad.co.uk/
Follow Birthing Dads on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/birthingdads
Follow Birthing Dads on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/birthingdads/
Follow the Prepare Foundation on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/preparefoundation/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Peter Mutabazi came from from a home of extreme poverty in Uganda, Africa where sleeping on a dirt bed and going days without food were normal. He also endured countless nights of violent beatings from his dad. In Peters book Now I Am Known he writes about how he escaped and years later found kindness and love from a man how brought him into his own family and treated him as his own son. Peter shares how being in the face of horror from the Rwandan genocide brought him before God and how in that moment he accepted Jesus and allowed his life to be changed. Peter is now a foster dad and has adopted children of his own and continues to advocate for children who need to be known and heard.
You can get Now I Am Known Here:
https://amzn.to/3cqqgTy
To learn more about Peter click on the link below:
https://nowiamknown.com/
Chris Bruno talks about his book, Sage, A Man's Guide into His Second Passage. He also talks to Fathers about the dreaded midlife crisis and why so many men approach it as an attempt to reclaim their relevance in life. Chris explains that instead of seeing mid life as a bad thing, it is actually the point where we can become a sage if we choose to, In this episode he explains why and how a father arrives at his purpose as a sage finding the ultimate fulfillment and meaning in life.
You can purchase Sage here:
https://amzn.to/3QJLkTS
Man Maker Project
https://amzn.to/3Kc4qzJ
Restory by Restoration Counseling:
https://www.restory.life/
Restoration Project
https://www.restorationproject.net/
Allen Carter talks with me about his book and the many years he spent writing letters to his kids and the impact it had on both their lives and his. We also talk about the impact this book can have on other families and why dads might want to consider writing to their kids as well. Allen discusses the importance of leaving a legacy for your kids and future generations and simple ways you can do this. Letters from a father is filled with nuggets of wisdom that he shared with his kids and that you can share with yours too. If you struggle to have meaningful conversations with your kids this book will help you get started.
You can find Letters from a father here:
https://amzn.to/3Aw5URT
All proceeds from the book go to Chicago Home Academy. To learn more visit the link below:
https://chicagohopeacademy.org/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Chris Meyer has been in the funeral home business owning multiple funeral homes for over 17years. During this time Chris has learned what really matters such as spending quality time with family, making memories and leaving a legacy. Chris also talks about how to have important and meaningful conversations with your kids and the legacy that matters most to them. Chris is also an author and in this episode talks about why he wrote The Book of Moments and how this book can be the perfect tool for not only understanding who you are, but also for leaving a legacy for your kids and future generations.
You can order the book here:
https://amzn.to/3SCKyJw
To learn more about Chris, visit his website here:
http://chrismeyerauthor.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Bernie Landels is an author and speaker with over 25 years of experience in the education and health care field. Her focus is the first 1,000 days of a child's development and specifically how touch so important for both babies and older children to thrive. She has worked with dads who can sometime struggle to connect with their babies and older children through touch. in this episode Bernie and i have a conversation about simple things dads can do to bond with their kids through simple touch and the additional benefits it can provide both for dads and their babies and kids. We also talk about Bernie's book Finding Their Feet and why every dad should have a copy.
You can order Finding Their Feet here:
https://amzn.to/3BxFDUv
Connect with Bernie and learn more about what she is doing here:
https://bernielandels.com/
Chris Bruno is a well know and sought after counselor and founder of Restoration Counseling. He specializes in men and masculinity, sexual addiction, trauma and abuse. His experience as a men’s therapist and his work with men at Restoration Project provide a wealth of experience when navigating the landscape of a man’s heart. Chris is also the author of Man Maker Project, a guide to help fathers usher their sons into manhood God's way.
In this episode we dive into the heart of fathers dealing with deep seated traumas that in some cases go back generations. We talk about the value of knowing yourself and the path towards living a fulfilling and purpose driven life full of joy along the way.
Order Man Maker Project here:
https://amzn.to/3PUXhFy
Restory by Restoration Counseling:
https://www.restory.life/
Restoration Product:
https://www.restorationproject.net/
Megan Owen is the owner of Mountain City Christian Counseling and a pastoral trauma counselor. One of the modalities she uses is something called DNMS therapy (Developmental Needs Meeting Strategy). She fashioned this therapy to suit folks who have left abusive cultures and may not even have a baseline for what looks healthy. She works with ego states to bring healing to different "parts" of our inner family systems. So, healing for six year old or 15 year old . . . but it isn't me. She teaches men to bring healing to themselves by learning to trust themselves and the resources they have within them.
In this episode Megan talks about some of the causes of trauma that is holding so many dads from becoming everything they were created to be and how they can find a path to break free restoring their understanding of their source and purpose.
You can reach Megan at:
https://www.mountaincitychristiancounseling.com/
You can email Julie, assistant to Megan at:
julie@mountaincitychristiancounseling.com
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Nicole Ratcliffe is the founder of Baby2Sleep. She is a parental coach specifically supporting parents to help their babies and young children sleep well in a gentle manner and navigate development changes. In our conversation Nicole speaks to dads about the do's and don'ts for creating a calming environment that allows the baby to get more sleep and consequently parents too.
Learn more about Baby2Sleep and reach Nicole at:
https://www.baby2sleep.co.uk/
Find Baby2Sleep on Facebook at:
https://www.facebook.com/Baby2Sleep
Find Baby2Sleep on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/baby_2_sleep/
Find Baby2Sleep on Twitter at:
https://twitter.com/Baby_2_Sleep
You can watch and subscribe to the Baby2Sleep YouTube channel at:
https://www.youtube.com/c/Baby2Sleep
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Sandra Trew shares her experience as a parental coach not only working with families but working specifically with dads. In my conversation with Sandra she uncovers some of the biggest pain points with dads that keep them from bonding with their kids and having a close family.
You can learn more about Sandra's coaching program at:
https://www.getrealparentalcoaching.com/
Find Sandra on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/getrealparentalcoaching/
Find Sandra on Instagram at:
https://www.instagram.com/getrealparentalcoach/
Find Sandra on LinkedIn at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandra-trew-552084217/
Listen to Sandra's podcast at:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/get-real-parental-coaching/id1606697095?i=1000550177622
Shoshannah Guerrero has a M.A. in Marriage and Family Therapy from Mount Mercy University and owns her own private practice at DreamWeaver Therapy PLLC. Shoshannah has 21- plus years of experience working with individuals with diagnosis of developmental delays, mental illness, and substance use, and supporting families therapeutically through family life cycle changes. Shoshannah has experience as a behavioral health trainer, specializing in Motivational Interviewing, and supporting Project ECHO initiatives and facilitating behavioral health training in community, professional and provider settings. Shoshannah currently is a PhD student at Mount Mercy University with an interest in complex situations without known outcomes such as adjusting to complex medical diagnosis, families and individuals experiencing grief and loss, and couples in distress.
In this episode Shoshannah talks about the impact of each child development stage from birth to empty nest and its impact on the marriage relationship. She deconstructs some of the reasons dads struggle during these stages and provides practical strategies to navigating each stage. You can take the assessments mentioned in this episodes using the links below.
Myers-Briggs Personality Assessment
https://www.16personalities.com/
Attachment Style Quiz
https://www.attachmentproject.com/
Learn more and contact Shoshannah and DreamWeaver Therapy at:
dreamweavertherapypllc.com
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Clare Stead has had an extensive career in education traveling to many continents understanding how the world learns. Because of her experience and background she understands the challenges families face helping their babies to get a head start in their early years. She also understands why dads feel lost and in some cases left out in what they contribute for their babies.
Clare created an app for dads called Oliiki. The app is a daily manual for all dads that walks you step by step through small tasks any dad can do to increase the brain development and performance of their baby in the first 1,000 days. Because of Care's work and understanding of dads, their is now an app for dads and a manual for babies to remove the guess work.
Learn more about Oliiki at: https://www.oliikiapp.com/
Join the Oliiki community at: https://www.facebook.com/Oliiki
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Royal Bradley shares his experience of being a father both from a military and veteran lens. He shares some of his struggles and his successes trying to be a good father with so many demands on his time and energy. Royal issues a challenge to civilian, veteran and military dads after sharing how he accomplished the same challenge.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Nathaniel Brundidge is a substance abuse counselor who has successfully set many dads free from substance abuse addictions. Nathaniel talks about some of the causes that lead dads into substance abuse addictions and the impact it has on their families. He also shares what the path to freedom looks like and shares a inspiration story of a dad who chose to break free.
You can reach Nathaniel at his practice or by phone:
https://turningpointevaluation.org/
Phone: 515-490-1718
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Former NFL certified agent, sports psychology consultant and analyzer Herman Few talks with me about his background and experience working with the Project Fatherhood organization and how his role helped dads stay connected with their kids during hard times. Herman also talks about his goal of utilizing the influence of the NFL as an outreach resource to educate the public about how important fathers are.
To learn more about Project Fatherhood visit https://www.childrensinstitute.org/project-fatherhood/
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Former NFL certified agent, sports psychology consultant and analyzer Michael Few talks with me about his childhood experience growing up in a broken home. Michael explains how this childhood experience helped him when he tried to insulate his kids from the sting of their home falling apart. He explains why it is so important for dads in a similar situation to do the hard work of pushing through your own grief to be available for your kids.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Chaplain Sedrick Mcintosh is no stranger to grief. He has been there for so many families during some of the worst times in their life. In this episode we get into the anatomy of grief and why grief is the reason kids act out. Sedrick shares some examples of the most common triggers for grief that he has seen in kids and how dads can address grief in their children. Sedrick also talks about how unresolved grief in parents can be damaging to their relationship with their kids and how to address it. This conversation is continuing from part 1 in the last episode.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Chaplain Sedrick Mcintosh is no stranger to grief. He has been there for so many families during some of the worst times in their life. In this episode we get into the anatomy of grief and why grief is the reason kids act out. Sedrick shares some examples of the most common triggers for grief that he has seen in kids and how dads can address grief in their children. Sedrick also talks about how unresolved grief in parents can be damaging to their relationship with their kids and how to address it. This conversation continues in to part 2 in the next episode.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Andrew Bauman shares a deep conversation with me about how dads can recognize, stop and prevent abuse patterns before it's too late. Andrew shares many resources to address the root pain and trauma that causes addictions and abuse while challenging you to look inside and be kind enough to yourself and others to get help to heal.
Andrew J. Bauman is the Founder & Director of the Christian Counseling Center: For Sexual Health & Trauma (CCC), Andrew J. Bauman is a licensed mental health counselor with a Master of Arts in Counseling Psychology from The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology. Andrew is the author of:
How Not to Be an *ss: Essays on Becoming a Good & Safe Man
The Sexually Healthy Man: Essays on Spirituality, Sexuality, & Restoration
The Psychology of Porn: Essays on Pornography, Objectification & Healing
Stumbling Toward Wholeness: How the Love of God Changes Us
A Brave Lament: For Those Who Know Death
Floating Away: A Book to Help Children Understand Addiction
Andrew's Facebook page can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/AndrewJamesBauman
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Pastor Scott Ritsema exposes the number one threat destroying fathers and families. in this episode he will take you into the specifics of the spiritual and psychological damage being left behind why dads are being targeted. He will also reveal a clear pathway for fathers who are trapped and specific steps to get out and be free. The link below will take you to the resources recommended by Pastor Ritsema to help you along the way.
Belt of Truth Ministries
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Pastor Ron Halvorsen Jr. Explains from his personal experience why it is so critical for dads to be very aware of the legacy they leave their kids. He also shares practical wisdom and tips any dad can do to leave a legacy that both dad and son can be proud of.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Bernie Anderson shares his personal story and process about how his life was restored after nearly hitting rock bottom and almost losing everything. He exposes the greatest threat to dads and families and why so many fathers fall victim. Bernie also shares exactly how he got out of the trap and what fathers can do to escape and stay free.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Learn about the most dangerous threat that has taken down and destroyed so many fathers and ripped families apart. Bernie Anderson shares his personal story of how he was pulled in at an early age and how he escaped before it completely destroyed his life, and returned to his family. He also shares his warning to all dads on how to make better choices and avoid the same decisions that have claimed many dads and families.
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Continuing into part 2, author and speaker Ed Dickerson along with Pastor Joshua Hester are from different generations and backgrounds. Listen with an open mind as they share their unique perspectives on the existential questions of who are we, why are we here, and where are we going. Their thoughts will challenge you towards finding a purposeful and meaningful life.
Recommended Books:
The Abolition of Man
Grounds for Belief
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Author and speaker Ed Dickerson and Pastor Joshua Hester are from different generations and backgrounds. Listen with an open mind as they share their unique perspectives on the existential questions of who are we, why are we here, and where are we going. Their thoughts will challenge you towards finding a purposeful and meaningful life.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Pastor Bryan Laue explains why it is critically important for Fathers to teach faith to their kids at an early age. He also discusses different strategies to instruct your kids on faith and how that might look different as they get older. If you want to help your kids to learn to develop their own strong faith this episode will be a great place to start.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Tremayne Willis tells his story of how he grew up fatherless and the man that saved his life and prepared him to be a father.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Pastor Mike Tucker shares his wisdom both as a pastor and licensed counselor on why a stable marriage is so important to your kids and why future generations depend on it for stability. If you are struggling in your marriage you will learn what you can do to turn things around. Pastor Tucker is the Creator of Mad About Marriage seminars and Speaker Emeritus at Faith For Today
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Robert Bradbury continues his heartbreaking story of how his son's experience of abandonment as a baby led his son to a life of drug addiction that included the use of fentanyl. In this episode you will learn some of the warning signs that might indicate drug use by your child and steps that can be taken to address it early.
See a DEA Facts Sheet on fentanyl:
https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/fentanyl
DEA facts about fentanyl laced counterfeit drugs:
https://www.dea.gov/onepill?fbclid=IwAR1elaT-KqLQhAGjfSwY919xRD-KyEYIgbgIBSBiw2Eh2gDggsjnjaEuHxo
Story of a Seattle teen who quit smoking Fentanyl:
https://www.kuow.org/stories/a-seattle-teen-quit-smoking-fentanyl-every-morning-he-thanks-god-he-s-alive?fbclid=IwAR3IBPNlTAPH4EKnZc7G9EXARQJG6oceLeFhwFp_Qiu6xJz38zeSc2OBuqM
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Robert Bradbury shares his heartbreaking story of how his son's experience of abandonment as a baby led his son to a life of drug addiction that included the use of fentanyl. In this episode you will learn some of the warning signs that might indicate drug use by your child and steps that can be taken to address it early.
See a DEA Facts Sheet on fentanyl:
https://www.dea.gov/factsheets/fentanyl
DEA facts about fentanyl laced counterfeit drugs:
https://www.dea.gov/onepill?fbclid=IwAR1elaT-KqLQhAGjfSwY919xRD-KyEYIgbgIBSBiw2Eh2gDggsjnjaEuHxo
Story of a Seattle teen who quit smoking Fentanyl:
https://www.kuow.org/stories/a-seattle-teen-quit-smoking-fentanyl-every-morning-he-thanks-god-he-s-alive?fbclid=IwAR3IBPNlTAPH4EKnZc7G9EXARQJG6oceLeFhwFp_Qiu6xJz38zeSc2OBuqM
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
What does a barbershop have to do with fatherhood? Ernest Harris shares the wisdom and traditions he learned from his father growing up and hands them down to his kids. He issues a challenge to men going through difficult relational struggles, the same challenge he has faced and won.Ernest is now the CEO/Managing Editor at Charm City Direct TV and Executive producer at WLEO 26.7 Online Radio .
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Pastor Joshua Hester shares his personal story of neglect and abandonment as a child and teenager and how a surrogate father stepped in and changed his life. You will be inspired as you listen and learn how the love of a father can transform a rough life into one of hope and success. You will also learn the secrets to creating a special bond between you and your kids.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
Surrogate Fatherhood is not a subject often talked about, but on this episode Richard Bonjour tells is story of becoming a surrogate father to his new daughter and how this selfless act of love transformed her heart and life for good. What is surrogate fatherhood? Why is it important? Why would a father choose to also become a surrogate father? As you listen you will be inspired by his answers.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
It was time to tell my story and share why this podcast and this movement matters to me and why it should matter to you. Learn why fatherhood is so important to take seriously and what happens to future generations when one father decides to abandon his role.
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
What a fun and meaningful conversation with Matt Purdy, an expert outdoorsman and very engaged father. Matt shares many stories about his experience as father and how he teaches his kids to love being in nature. He also talks about some of the ways being involved in his kids lives has enriched their life experience and any father can do the same. If you are a new father this an episode you must listen to because you will gain wisdom you will need but won't find anywhere else.
Support this podcast in a fun way by shopping in our store:
https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
What is it like to be a parent with type 1 diabetes? What is it like to be a father of a child with type 1 diabetes? Mike Schrock is the former Development Coordinator for JDRF (Junior Diabetes Research Fund. Listen as Mike shares his emotional story and journey of finding meaning and joy in being an engaged father of two daughters. He also reveals the moment that inspired him to become a dynamic and effective coordinator and fundraiser for JDRF.
If you would like to learn more about JDRF or get involved, click on the link below:
https://www.jdrf.org
Support this podcast in a fun way by shopping in our store:
https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Ed Dickerson is a renown author writing coach and successful lobbyist who's pioneering efforts changed the laws in Iowa legalizing homeschooling. He is also a Homeschool Consultant helping many families with starting and maintaining a successful homeschool program. In this episode he shares his wisdom and advice with new fathers of daughters and gives out the secrets to raising kids to be successful academically and in life.
Ed Dickerson's homeschool consulting page:
https://www.facebook.com/Ed.homeschool
Support this podcast in a fun way by shopping in our store:
https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
What happens when a father in law enforcement is confronted with being a career dad or being available for his kids? What happens to kids emotionally and developmentally who's fathers are involved in a domestic disturbance call? How are absent fathers affecting the crime rate? Listen to a fascinating interview with Vince Snyder as he gives us a small peak of fatherhood from the lens of law enforcement. Fathers, be prepared as Vince issues his challenge to you.
Here is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge swag mentioned in this episode: https://thefatherhoodchallenge.creator-spring.com/
Join our Facebook page and network with other dads just like you.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
What is the history of fatherhood? Who was the original father? What is fatherhood supposed to look like? Why are fathers so critical to the stability of society? Get all of the answers to these questions and learn how important you are as a father.
Join our community in the Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast/donations
In this episode I give more clarity on what to expect in future episodes and how to connect with other fathers and share feedback on episodes on the Facebook page. The link to the Facebook page is provided below.
I also give out the first challenge of coming up with a goodbye and greeting ritual with your kids. On the Facebook page share what your ritual is and how it worked for you and your kids.
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast
Hi. I'm Jonathan Guerrero, founder and host of The Fatherhood Challenge Podcast. In this pilot I introduce myself and the podcast and give you an idea of what you can expect from future episodes. You can also find a Facebook Community around the show at the link below. This will be a perfect place to network with other like-minded fathers.
Below is the link to The Fatherhood Project:
https://www.thefatherhoodproject.org
Below is the link to The Fatherhood Challenge Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/thefatherhoodchallengepodcast