Hybrid Ministry: Recent Episodes
Nick Clason
Online Ministry is complicated and hard. How do pastors and youth pastors create an extension of what's already happening during their weekly services? We all live life in a Hybrid way. It's not digital only. Or in-person only. It's both. It's Hybrid. Follow along on Twitter at: https://twitter.com/HybridMinistry
📲 Why Every Youth Ministry Needs a Strong Social Media Presence 📲 In this episode we'll give you a COMPLETELY FREE Done for you, reproducable month long social media posting tool and stratgey framework. Just copy and paste this month after month for a strong social media presence in your church's youth ministry! Hit the link below! 👇👇👇👇👇 🆓FREEBIES 📅 "1 Month Done for You Social Media Posting Tool" https://hybrid-ministry-40060036.hubspotpagebuilder.com/free-hybrid-ministry-e-book 😨 "Have I already Ruined my TikTok Account?" https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook 📹 "Adobe Premiere Pro Presets for Animating Layers" https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis 🛠️TOOLS Some of the below links are affilate links in which we do recieve a small commission based on your purchase or use of products //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT FOR UNDER $100 https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/youtubestarterkit AUTO POD https://autopod.lemonsqueezy.com?aff=MX7Vv TRY REV.COM FOR TRANSCRIBING https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa RISE OF THE NONES https://amzn.to/44YyZlT In a rapidly evolving digital landscape, it's crucial for every church to embrace the power of social media. Whether you're a small local congregation or a thriving mega-church, marketing the church effectively can help you connect with your community like never before. We'll be discussing tried-and-true marketing church strategies that include utilizing social media platforms to create a strong online presence. From crafting compelling content that resonates with your audience to developing a comprehensive church social media strategy, we've got you covered. Looking for innovative church social media ideas? Look no further! Our channel is your go-to resource for church social media management tips and tricks. We'll guide you through crafting a church social media policy that ensures your online presence aligns with your church's values and mission. With our insightful videos, you'll learn how to become a proficient church social media manager or even explore the option of bringing in a dedicated professional. Together, let's unlock the potential of social media for churches and take your ministry to new heights. 🌟 Don't miss out on our game-changing advice for creating the best church social media strategy. We'll provide you with customizable church social media templates and actionable steps to execute a flawless plan. If you're wondering how to effectively use social media to extend church invites and foster engagement, we have the answers you need. Join us as we delve into real-life examples, including the social media strategy of renowned churches like Elevation Church. Prepare to elevate your church's online presence and witness the incredible impact it has on your youth ministry and congregation as a whole. Subscribe now and embark on your journey to a Strong Digital Presence for your church's youth ministry! 🎉🏛️ 📓SHOWNOTES //SHOWNOTES & TRANSCRIPTS http://www.hybridministry.xyz/060 //NPR ARTICLE https://www.npr.org/2023/05/17/1175452002/church-closings-religious-affiliation#:~:text=Estimate%3A%20In%202019%2C%20the%20year,opened%20and%204%2C500%20churches%20closed. //YOUTUBE STARTER KIT EPISODE https://www.hybridministry.xyz/033 //FINDINGS FROM BARNA E-BOOK https://www.hybridministry.xyz/006 //SIX FINDINGS FOR THE HYBRID CHURCH EXPERIENCE https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience //PEW RESEARCH ARTICLE: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/attendance-at-religious-services/ 📱NICK'S SOCIAL MEDIA RESOURCES SPIRITAL PRACTICES TIKTOKS •https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/spiritual-practice-videos/social-media/instagram-8804.html INSTAGRAM TOOLS •https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/instagram-slider-engagement-tool-vol-1/social-media/instagram-8118.html •https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/instagram-stories-slider-tool---hot-takes-edition/social-media/instagram-8034.html ALL RESOURCES •https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/featured-authors/nick-clason/?cgid=shop-nick-clason&q=nick+clason&start=18&sz=18 👉 STAY CONNECTED YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz 🕰️TIMECODES 00:00-02:19 Intro 02:19-10:18 How can our church be more relevant for Gen Z & Gen Alpha? 10:18-21:52 Why youth ministries need to post their messages to YouTube 21:51-25:05 40 Done for You Social Media Posting Ideas 25:05-26:50 Where to get all these resources? ✍️TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Well, hey, everybody. In this episode, we are going to answer this question why I believe every single youth ministry needs a strong social media presence. We're going to look at some trends, some statistics, and share with you why now is the time to double down, to engage and to make social media and a digital presence important in your church's student ministry. Well, everyone, if you and I have not had a chance to meet, my name is Nick Clason. I am an actual youth pastor in the D F W Dallas-Fort Worth area, host of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. So welcome to that. Excited to have you with us. We are going to dive into some statistics and some, some trends and some quotes, and I got all kinds of fun stuff. If you are not already subscribed to our YouTube channel, hit that subscribe button, hit that notification button, hit that like button. Nick Clason (00:57): All those things help us get seen by other people who also need to hear this message about the importance of digital and student ministry in your church in 2023 and honestly, far beyond. So excited to have you with us. Hey, I also wanna let you know we got a couple of freebies. So link down below in the description in the show notes. If you're listening on a podcast, hit those up. We got your free ebook on how to create a complete TikTok from scratch. And in this episode, we are also going to, with that exact same link, we are going to drop another free done for you social media structure plan, um, 40 free videos, your social media plan. I'm gonna give it to you for you and for your youth ministry. Make it happen, download that ebook. Also, if you are a video editor and you use Adobe Premier Pro, we have some free presets for you so that you can use those Adobe Premier Pro presets in your editing. Nick Clason (01:52): Completely free, super easy to use, just want to encourage you to check those things out, uh, a like rating, subscribe, all those things. We are on TikTok, we are on Instagram. We are all the places. Hit the description, YouTube, hit the link in the show notes on a podcast. But without any further ado, let's hop in and let's dive in to the topic of why every youth ministry needs to have a strong social media presence. Let's go. So I was recently reading through, uh, the comment section of YouTube channel, and I saw this question and I thought it was fascinating, and I thought that it was worth exploring the question read like this, what elements can we bring into our service and our church, whether innovative or just a mood that increases our relevancy to Gen Z and Alpha? It may cost us discomfort, but we are willing to stretch. Nick Clason (02:44): First of all, I love the notion here that we are willing to stretch understanding that the times that we are in with Generation Z and generation alpha, gen Z, um, most people are saying, uh, the old, the, the youngest of them are born 2010, uh, on up through young adulthood. Now they're in their twenties, mid twenties or so just now graduating college, just now getting started to, um, have a career. And in addition to all of that, joining your church force for the first time. And so if you're in youth ministry, gen Z is not in your youth ministry. Uh, maybe like your high school we would say is, is Generation Z, gen alpha, um, eighth grade, seventh grade or so, right in that range. Um, down on through, uh, having been born between, uh, 2010 and 2025. So some of them aren't even born all the way yet. Nick Clason (03:35): They're in the kids' ministry, but they're waving on up. So Z and alpha are so, so completely different. I wanna share just some, some kind of state of Gen z state of gen alpha statistics with you. But those things are gonna help us frame this conversation about why social media is so important for the next generation. A lot of churches have a social presence and it operates as their outreach arm, their evangelism, uh, branch of their ministry, so to speak. And I, I think that is a great tactic and a great tool, and if you're not doing that, you definitely should. However, that being said, I think there are also opportunities to, um, promote discipleship growth, theological and spiritual connection and commitment, not only with each other, but also just with connection to God's word. And so I want to dive into some of those things, but before we do that, let's look at who Gen Z and who Gen Alpha are, what we know about them, what some of our learnings are, and what we can kind of like take from that and how that's gonna help us frame this conversation. Nick Clason (04:38): So, uh, over here, before we dive into that though, over 4,000 churches close their door yearly, over 4,000 churches. This from npr.org. Um, and the estimate is this, in 2019, the year before the pandemic, before the pandemic, keep that in mind. So the pandemic was already, or, or was, or was going to be hard on people. This right here, right? Like this is pre pandemic, more Protestant churches closed than opened in the us. Um, 2014, 4,000 churches opened, and 3,700 churches closed 2019. Then that number started to shift and get a little bit more. And so churches are slowly becoming, um, starting to close at a rate greater than their opening. And you know that with that trend over time, that's going to make churches more and more obsolete, less and less relevant. Now, is that because Generation z generation alpha don't want to go to our church, perhaps, and there may be some things worth learning, but why? Nick Clason (05:45): And where does social media play into this? I'm gonna give you that in a second. But first, 56% of Generation Z claim to be Christian. And you might think, oh, that's pretty good. That's encouraging. I thought that might be lower. I did. However, 25% of Gen Z claim to have no faith at all. James Emery White wrote a book called The Rise of the Nuns. And this is that trend right here being played out. This is the highest classification of no religion at all by any generation. Gen Z, millennials, Xers, boomers, all the things. Gen Z the highest at 25% claiming to actually have no faith whatsoever. Furthermore, the five biggest terms, when, when, uh, this is done by a study from Barna, the five biggest terms that Generation Z used to describe their faith were these five growing at 47%, open at 38%, curious at 35%, spiritual at 33%, and then exploring at 32%. Nick Clason (06:48): And so what that tells me is that Gen Z, while they may have a classification, right, of not having religion, um, not claiming one at all, they are open and they are willing and they are curious. And so I think that pairs well and creates a really good kind of groundwork and ecosystem for us as student ministry leaders and personnel to, uh, continue to answer some of their questions. Here was where this gets fascinating, and I think personally where the rubber meets the road. In response to this statement, Barna said, Hey, the statement is this. The church does not answer my questions. 13% said that that statement was completely true. 13% said the church does not answer my questions 24%. That's somewhat true. So more true than not that the church doesn't answer their questions, um, 28%, somewhat not true. Uh, so, uh, it's getting a little bit better. Nick Clason (07:46): And then 35% said that's, that's not true at all. Okay? What I wanna highlight and kind of pull out there is that 37%, almost four out of 10 people would say that the church doesn't really answer their questions yet. However, they would classify themselves as growing, open, curious, spiritual, and exploring. And so if there's an opportunity for the church to lean into a demographic that is curious, open exploring, um, asking questions, why would we not answer those questions? Well, I hear your rebuttal on the other end of the camera, right? Well, I, I am handling those, uh, questions I am asking and answering big questions through my teaching series, through my bible studies, through my devotionals, and that's great. However, pew Research recently said that 58% of evangelical protestant church attenders attend church get this at least one time a week, 58%. So that means out of your, uh, your a hundred percent membership, people who call your church your student ministry home, only six out of 10 are actually coming on a week to week basis to even hear that teaching. Nick Clason (09:00): Also, Warren Bird, on our last podcast, we, I, I shared some, some snippets from Warren Bird, uh, but Warren Bird says this, he says, people tend to over exaggerate when it comes to this question. When it comes to their church attendants. They overinflate the numbers, right? They want to look better perhaps than they actually are. And if 58% are actually attending at least one time a week, then there's this to keep in mind that there are still 40% who of their own admission and of their own classification are not hearing your weekly messages unless they're actually there because only 58% are attending at a week to week sort of clip. And so what should I do about that? You're asking, you're like, I am trying to answer their questions. They say they're open, they're spiritually engaging. This is where I think that all churches, especially all youth ministries, should be posting their weekly message content. Nick Clason (09:55): And you should be doing so uploading to YouTube. Okay? Here's the thing. You probably already have a soundboard that you're using in your room, and if you do, in most cases, you're able to add a minimum capture the audio, and you can start uploading that to podcasts. But YouTube is king right now, and I wanna share with y'all why after this. So here's the reality. If you head back into the archives of any of my podcasts, YouTube videos, um, we talk a lot about YouTube, in fact, episode, um, 33 http://www.hybridministry.xyz/033, link in the description link in the show notes talks about how to start a YouTube channel completely with links to all the gigs that you're gonna need and how to do that directly off of your phone. It will help you upgrade your audios just ever so slightly. I am now using, I got a couple lights here. Nick Clason (10:49): I got a camera that I'm recording off of. I'm also going to drop here in just a couple weeks, probably next week. Um, a a complete gear rundown of us after a year of YouTube upgrading our camera equipment. And I say a year, I look at my watch here, which actually gives me my date today as I record. This is July 31st. We officially launched our YouTube channel at the student ministry that I work in, in January 1st of this year because we, our church changed their name. And so I was holding the YouTube channel to launch along with the name change and all that stuff. We, so far this year on YouTube have posted well over, um, I think it's over 200 videos. Um, I'm trying to go to it right here on live, that auto channel player player, oh, 399 videos. I just uploaded a short this morning, uh, by this afternoon, I'll post my second short. Nick Clason (11:42): We'll be at video number 400 since January 1st of this year until now, July 31st. We are currently at 202 subscribers. Not crazy numbers, not anything that you wanna write home about necessarily. But if you had the opportunity to reach 200 additional people in your student ministry or in that 202, there are probably people who, well, I do know this. There are students who subscribe to our channel. There are parents who subscribe to our channel. Would you not want the opportunity to speak to those people? And that's the key, right? If Pew Research says only 58% of people are attending church once a week, then YouTube offers you an opportunity to share that message with them. But why YouTube? 3.48 billion people according to Hootsuite, roughly 45% of the world's population use social media. That's where they are millennials, which is not necessarily our target demographic. That's us as the youth pastors. Nick Clason (12:39): However, this is a trend worth watching because millennials are setting the pace, I think for some of these younger generations. Millennials say that they prefer YouTube to traditional tv two to one. That's crazy to me. I don't, but that's how millennials are, are consuming it. And that's also how Gen Z and Gen Alpha are consuming it. I had a kid yesterday walk up to me and I was recording some videos for some of our social media stuff, and he's like, oh, I wanna do it. I wanna do it. Look, I have a YouTube channel. I have over a thousand subscribers, and I was low-key jealous of him. 'cause that's my goal right now is to get my channel up to a thousand subscribers. I was like, no, you don't. Let me see. And he showed me, and he is just doing like goofy Minecraft tutorials and stuff like that. Nick Clason (13:17): He has 1.1 K subscribers via his YouTube channel. It is bunkers. Uh, also check this out, 51% of YouTube users say that they visit YouTube, get this daily. So why should we be on YouTube for all of those reasons? So if you wanna know how to start your own YouTube channel as a church, as a student ministry, you definitely should hit up episode 0 3 3 link in the show notes for that, and we will help make that happen. Um, help you get the gear and all that type of stuff going. Now, here's the thing in our context, this is why I want you to hear this in our context. We are in a large auditorium space. We have a soundboard, but it's not retrofitted and it's not graded to livestream. Okay? Our big church auditorium is, but our main service is not. And so because I didn't, uh, we're gonna be delivering live messages and, um, I, I also wanna post to YouTube. Nick Clason (14:09): I had to have a kind of like reconciling moment. What I decided was I was gonna do video. If you're watching our YouTube right now, it's just like this direct to camera. I'm talking directly into the camera with a scripted teaching video. We've got a teleprompter. It goes right in front of the camera here and it scrolls and you can watch it and you can read your notes and you can deliver a message with a YouTube hook that's hopefully engaging, um, with video, uh, lower thirds, uh, text that'll bounce in, bounce out sound effects. You can weave in other clips, B-roll, all that type of stuff. But it's made for YouTube. It's not just a camera perched in the back of the room, which is what most of us do for time reasons. And here's why that's important. In episode six of this podcast, me and my previous co-host, Matt Johnson, looked at some of the findings of the Future Church. Nick Clason (15:00): Um, this was from Barna. They, they dropped an ebook a little over a year ago called Six Questions About the Future of the Hybrid Church Experience. We pulled out some stats, we chatted about it. I'll drop the link to that episode in the show notes. I'll also drop the link to the Barna ebook in the show notes if you wanna explore more about that. But I wanna 0.2 things out to you from that ebook. It says, 60%, 60% of those participating in church that offer an online service during the pandemic say that this is the only digital offering that the church makes, their live stream of their service. And furthermore, 63% of church adults believe that the church should use digital resources for the purposes of spiritual formation and disciple discipleship. 63% of churched adults, not Gen Z, not gen alpha, the church adults in this classification. Nick Clason (15:55): So this is millennials, this is Xers, this is even maybe some boomers giving us some of this data. Um, according to this ebook, they have a quote in there that says, churches, if if churches more than a building, can digital ministry be more than a sermon? And I would contend the answer to that is unequivocally yes. We're gonna dive into the nitty gritty, the tactical, and give you a free downloadable resource on how stick around for that. But before we do, I wanna drop one more eye-opening thing out of this ebook. It said, this faith, this is, uh, a stat I'll, I'll put the, um, graph on YouTube if you're following and watching there. Faith expression during the pandemic, the question was, do you use the internet? The percent answered yes. Um, there are three categories practicing Christians, church, adults, and dropouts. 66% of practicing Christians say that they use, uh, faith, uh, in the internet. Nick Clason (16:48): They use the internet for faith practices during the pandemic at 66%. Church adults at 56%. And dropouts, even those who've dropped out at 36% say that, um, as a faith supplement, 52% of practicing Christians, 42% church adults, and 30% of dropouts as a faith supplement. And then as a substitute for physical church, 50% of practicing Christians say that 46% of church adults say that. And 30% of dropouts would claim that. In addition, they broke that out, uh, with, uh, a deeper classification of church, gen Z Church, millennials, church Gen X, and church boomers, obviously, no surprise to you, gen Z was the highest of that. 67% as, um, for faith purposes, 56% as a faith supplement and as a substitute for physical church, uh, that was at 58%. So Gen Z, and mind you, this was old enough. So at least 18 years of age Gen Z. Nick Clason (17:43): So that's not counting kids in our youth ministry. And that's not counting Alpha, 'cause none of them were old enough to be pulled on survey. So if it's that high in churched adult Gen Z, how much more for the teenagers in your youth ministry? Uh, James Emery White has a quote out of his most recent book, hybrid Church, rethinking the Church in a post-digital age said the vision. This vision, talking about the metaverse, this vision led Zuckerberg, c e o of Facebook to change the name of its company to Meta. Zuckerberg described a grandiose vision of a metaverse as an even more immersive and embodied internet. When or where you're gonna be able to do almost anything that you can, uh, imagine, get together with friends and family, work, learn, play, shop, create as well, uh, as entirely new categories that don't even fit how we think about computers or phones today. Nick Clason (18:37): If you, uh, wanna reference point, think of the movie Avatar. The Metaverse would be a shared social space where avatars represent users, a world that avatars interact and inhabit. And in that metaverse, you could own virtual property just as you would physical property or even create, uh, your, even create your own virtual property. Not to mention, you can buy and sell property. The last step in achieving all this would be a full three D telepresence v uh, via VR or AR glasses. Hubo technology is a technology company that manages hybrid and virtual events, predict that soon events will be, um, less about chronology and speakers and more about exploration and interaction. That quote right there is worth weight in gold. Um, I, and I'm just kind of picking it up 'cause I read this at 1:00 AM last night, the end of a standard webinar is coming near and being replaced with live streaming VR entertainment and Oculus Rift parties. Nick Clason (19:34): What Emory White says is this, and this is what made me pull this quote out. Needless to say, the internet is not gonna be flat for too much longer. And why do we want to do this for Gen Z and Gen Alpha? This is the internet that they are going to be ushering in and growing up in. They're spending time on the internet, on their phones. And while there are, uh, digital hygiene things that we as youth pastors need to model and teach our students to do, I think gone are the days of just, Hey, no phones. Like, yeah, that's easier. And we all know that like reducing our technology use helps us. However, you got a new kid walking into your student ministry, are you really gonna take his phone and lock it up in a locker and tell 'em you can't have it until the end? Nick Clason (20:18): Is he coming back after his first week of visiting your church? Probably not. But if you help teach students, Hey, here's technology, here's resources. Here's a way that you can grow in your faith beyond the walls of this sermon and service while I'm up here trying to answer your questions, but give you more to study with because this is what I was studying this week as I was preparing this content. And here's something for you. Here's a P D F, here's a checklist, here's a devotional, here's a prayer guide, whatever the case might that's gonna help students grow in their faith. And all of that can exist and live on your digital platforms. In particular YouTube. But wait, I'm so busy, but wait, I don't have time. I'm already preparing messages. I'm sitting in meetings. I'm running C c b or I'm running church data management reports. Nick Clason (21:05): I don't have an admin. I used to have an admin. I might get an admin. I'm probably never gonna have an admin. And I'm stacking chairs and I'm repainting the youth room and I'm patching the wall from the kid whose butt fell through the thing. I get it. I'm there. I'm a youth pastor being in youth mystery 12 and a half years. Here's why this, uh, this is why we are dropping this resource. So we are going to be giving you all the month long social media posting tool done for you and your youth ministry free ebook link in the show notes. When you download that, you're gonna get a link to two eBooks, my TikTok from scratch, and now this month long youth ministry social media thing. Let's dive into what is actually going to be in that. Let's go. So we will detail this a little bit more in the ebook, but essentially I'm giving you a basically 40 ideas that you can post, uh, five days a week. Nick Clason (22:01): So there's seven days in a week. I recommend that you take two off just to practice Sabbath and, uh, not working whatever your two days off that you want to be. So for example, I post Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. I don't work on Fridays in the office or Saturday. So I don't post either of those days. And each of those days I post two tos. I recently talked a couple episodes back about how we went from three down to two, and then I'm gonna give you three or I'm, I'm sorry. I'm gonna give you, uh, a video thing to post every single day. So for me, my Sunday, I post the message hook from our teaching video that we do, we we capture it like this, then I clip it out and make it vertical. And I post a game on Monday. I'll do Meme Monday, and then I'll post some sort of spiritual practice video, either a talking head or pre uh, existing resource. Nick Clason (22:50): I have some resources in the show notes on Download youth ministry that you can ahead and grab if you want. Um, on uh, Tuesday I'll post a message clip, and then I'll do some sort of game or fun thing, uh, Wednesday, another spiritual practice video, and then a recap of our Wednesday night youth ministry, just some B roll and some audio that I did the sync auto sync on TikTok around cap cut. And then finally the third message clip, and then another game or activity. And so here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna help teach you how to clip those messages. Um, I want to, I wanna let you know about a, a resource. I'm gonna include the link in the show notes called Auto Pod. It is taking my long form sequence in Adobe Premier Pro and shrinking it and making it vertical. That's something that you can use and that's helpful, uh, to you if you are a, a video editor in that way. Nick Clason (23:38): If not, just clip it in on your phone using cap cut and, uh, you cap cut's a super powerful tool you can use. Um, and then, uh, and then also I'm gonna give you about 10 to 15 different game ideas or activity type ideas that we've done in our youth ministry. You can check it out, link to, um, you can check out our student ministry link in the description, cross Creek Student Ministry, social, go to our shorts, watch just some of the goofy stuff that we do. But I'm gonna give you ideas on how you can repurpose like d y m type games or other fun things like that and use it on camera or, or one thing I did yesterday was I, uh, me and a student took the camera around and he asked people, Hey, we're going back to school soon. What do these back to school? Nick Clason (24:22): Emoji phrases mean? He'd show them a picture on the phone and then they would try to guess, um, and to like incentivize them to actually choose to be on camera. We'd give 'em a fruit snack if they said yes, and then I captured it, and then I'm gonna go edit it and post, um, and have the, uh, emojis pop in. But if you don't wanna do all that right, you can just video it and just do like a quick picture and picture overlay of the emoji phrase. So there's all kinds of ideas, but all of that is going to be done for you. 40 ideas, replicatable, reproducible, the same framework, but also different videos every single week on your social media because vertical short form video is still king, bro, I missed all that. Great. We offer free transcripts for every single episode at our, uh, podcast page, hybridministry.xyz. Nick Clason (25:14): This is episode 0 6 0. So you can go there, pick up the free transcript, also link in the show notes for free editing presets for my TikTok video and now my, um, month long social posting tool done for you for youth ministries. Check that out. And hey, listen, if you're not in youth ministry, grab it and adapt it to your church. Because here's the thing, you don't have to just be silly and goofy in youth ministry churches wanna see their pastors having fun as well. So, uh, hope that you guys found this episode helpful. Hey, if you did, would you do me a favor and just share it? I would be forever grateful if you shared it, if you liked it, if you rated it, if you reviewed it, if you dropped a comment so I could engage with you in the comments. So pumped to be here walking through this with you. Nick Clason (25:56): Listen, I'm in the trenches just like you. If you're in youth ministry, if you're in church communications, if you're a social media manager for a church or business, I'm right there with you. I'm doing this podcast in my free time early morning before everyone else gets into work. And then I'm gonna turn around. I'm gonna start working right after this because I'm doing it with you. And so I want to be along on this journey with you. Make sure you follow us on TikTok, subscribe on YouTube, hit me up on Instagram. And until next time, and as always, we are making digital discipleship easy and accessible. Don't forget to stay hybrid.
Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Podcast! In this exciting episode, we dive deep into the realm of the future Hybrid Church for Churches and Youth Ministires! We'll take a look at a recent Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast Episode and a inspect a snippet from what the visionary Warren Byrd had to say about Digital Minittry and Church Marketing in Disciplship and Evangelism. 🔍 What's the Buzz About? In this thought-provoking discussion, Carey Nieuwhof and Warren Byrd explore the dynamic landscape of the Hybrid Church model. They shed light on the cutting-edge trends and unveil the fascinating possibilities that await the Church in the digital age. 🌐 Embracing the Digital Ministry Discover how churches and youth ministries can harness the power of technology and digital platforms to expand their outreach. Unravel the secrets to effective digital ministry and explore innovative ways to leverage social media for church growth. 💻 Marketing the Church for Impact Join us as we explore successful church social media strategies that bridge the gap between the physical and digital worlds. Learn how your ministry can create a strong online presence, connect with your congregation, and engage with a broader audience. 📲 Social Media: Friend or Foe? In this candid discussion, Nick, your host unpack the potential pitfalls of social media in the church context while also highlighting its incredible power to have incredible outreach potential and foster community. 🤝 The Jury is Still Out As the Hybrid Church concept gains momentum, the discussion isn't complete without acknowledging the questions and uncertainties surrounding its implementation. Delve into the gray areas and explore where the future of the Hybrid Church is still unknown. Whether you're a seasoned pastor, a curious church member, or a tech-savvy youth pastor, this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast promises to leave you inspired and equipped to embrace the future of the church in a digital world. 🔔 Subscribe now and join us on this enlightening journey into the world of Hybrid Ministry! Don't miss out on any future episodes, packed with insightful conversations and actionable strategies for a thriving Hybrid Church. 👉 Stay connected: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz SHOWNOTES 📹 Watch Carey's Interview with Warren: https://youtu.be/u2zj9XPPxlI?t=4715 🎧 Listen to Carey's Interview with Warren: https://careynieuwhof.com/episode574/ 📹 Hybrid Ministry on the Importance of the Church Website: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxndpebNlbw&t=2s 🎧 Hybrid Ministry on the Importance of the Church Website: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/040 ✍️ Transcripts Provided by Rev.com Try Rev.com for yourself: https://rev.pxf.io/R5nDOa TIMECODES 00:00-02:14 Intro 02:14-05:54 Warren Byrd on What's here to stay with Hybrid Ministry and where the jury is still out. 05:54-10:53 Nick Responds to Warren's Take on the Future of Hybrid Ministry 10:53-13:57 Hybrid & Digital work for Evangelism. Do they work for Discipleship? 13:57-21:36 What aspects of Discipleship can be turned digital? 21:36-23:15 Outro HybridMinistryPodcast #DigitalMinistry #SocialMediaChurch #HybridChurch #ChurchGrowth #ChurchSocialMedia #DigitalOutreach #FaithInnovation TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): What is up everyone? Welcome back to another edition of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, Nick Clayson, excited to be with you. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll notice a little bit of a different setup. We did, um, some filming today. A two things. Number one, it's not air conditioned in here, so I'm gonna be super sweaty, so just roll with that. But b uh, got some new lights, got some new audio equipment. Um, one of these days I'm gonna do a step by step, like every single thing that we did, and I'll release it to you guys. Today's not that day, but because we're in here and because I was already set, I was like, I'm just gonna film in here. Typical day, filming day. Uh, normally I come in early and film and then get to work on like work stuff, but today I had to get all this stuff set up 'cause I didn't know how to use it. Nick Clason (00:51): It was brand new, literally just ordered it last week. Came in over the weekend, so I wanted to get it all set up. Uh, so kind of displaced my time, moved it around a little bit. All that to be said. In today's episode, I want to talk about a recent Carrie Nho leadership podcast. I'm a subscriber, love his show. Um, if you haven't ever gone on there, go check it out. But he did a recent, um, episode with Warren Bird and, um, another guy named JJ something or other. Um, I'll put the link in the show notes. You can check it out. But it, it was about, um, uh, church planting and like the future. And at about the one minute and 22, uh, one hour, 22 minute Mark Warren Bird dropped some absolute gold that had to do with what we are, uh, dealing with in this podcast. Nick Clason (01:36): So I want to have y'all, uh, take a listen to that and, uh, just share with you guys some of my thoughts with it. So, hey, hit the link in the show notes for all the things you need, your transcript, couple of freebies. We have motion graphics that you can get for Adobe Premiere Pro. And we also have the free ebook about, um, uploading and posting to TikTok all from your app. We're on Instagram. We're on YouTube, and we are on TikTok. So without any further ado, let's dive into this episode titled, um, why does hybrid ministry matter? What do we know is staying and where, where's the jury Still out? Let's go. So, like I said, uh, in the most recent Karen Newh, not most recent, uh, most recent one I listened to, Carrie Newh episode is out from a couple months ago. Warren Bird dropped a couple statements. I just want you to hear it directly from him, and then I will respond. So go ahead, take a listen. Carey Nieuwhof (02:30): Warren, any, uh, data or observations on church plants and technology? Warren Byrd (02:36): Yeah. Uh, let's divide it into here to stay and the jury's still out. Okay. Uh, here to stay is people check out your church by its website. First used to be the parking lot was the first impression. The website, whatever size church you are, you're gonna check it out. Mm-hmm. , they're gonna ask two questions, fundamentally, are people like me there? And is this a a, is there a scary factor? Is there something that you know, is gonna weird me out too much? Um, also the newcomer, uh, connection. Now, it may not be their first week there, but scan the ur uh, the QR code. Um, tell us either your email or your phone or both, and that becomes a primary communication tool. I'm just amazed at, at especially the younger generation, so willing, uh, to give that up. But carrying it further hybrid stuff. Warren Byrd (03:29): Like my wife and I just finished a, a couple's marriage class in our church. We kicked it off in person. We ended it with a happily ever, ever, ever after party afterwards. But all the nights of the group were online. So this couple with five kids, you know, they, they finished the last kid in bed, they flopped down on the sofa, embraced each other, and were part of the class. They would never have gotten a sitter, uh, driven somewhere. And, and maybe one week, but not week after week after week. So the hybrid experience is here to stay. Now, where the jury is still out for churches, large and small is not the evangelism and the outreach. And jj, it's such a wonderful story of the California story. Those will happen in, and now due to the pandemic, the gospel's in every language accessible all around the world for people to hear, it's a brilliant strategy as the silver, one of the silver linings of the pandemic. Warren Byrd (04:23): But, but is is it primarily a member equipping and evangelistic strategy, or is it also a discipleship strategy? Mm-hmm. , can discipleship also happen at the same level? Now granted, I can't hug. Yeah. I can't, you know, like, like good Friday for me. Yes. Good question. When I, I'm not that emotional, but every time I do one of those crosses where I nail the nails in, and that's me nailing the nails and cry, well, I can't do that online mm-hmm. , uh, but in person it just, it moves me. So there's certain in-person that that, is it better or is it not? And I was just last week with a bunch of executive pastors from megachurches of a particular denomination, and they're ambivalent. You know, they're still deciding what to do. Yeah. There are still, there are a few pioneers, uh, Kerry, you wrote the forward to, uh, Tim Lucas's, uh, liquid Church book, liquid church and liquid Church, uh, uh, 5,500 before the pandemic says, okay, we may reach thousands in person, but let's figure out how to seamlessly reach tens of thousands of people beyond that. And church plants are with, with whatever their capacity level, depending on their size, are likewise saying, can we have an online impact of discipleship even beyond the broadcasting? So jury's still out on a lot of things, but, uh, I'm excited about the possibilities. Nick Clason (05:55): Okay, so we had a couple of things to say. The first is this, um, what's here to stay the church website, I'll drop a link in the show notes, but we had a all episode all about, um, church websites and how important, uh, your church website is just about like street to seat and all that stuff. Like people are still looking at and viewing websites. And if you have not yet put any effort or money into your website, go ahead and do that. And honestly, what I might recommend is I would get somebody who hasn't, who doesn't go to your church and put them on your website and ask them what's confusing, what's broken, what's missing, what's still needed, and all of that stuff will help point you in the right direction of somebody who is going to be an outsider and is going to be utilizing and using your church website. Nick Clason (06:44): So, uh, that's a great place to start. He also talks about, uh, next generations being willing to scan QR codes or fill out forms to give out necessary information that is marketing 1 0 1. And so if you can capture people's name and phone number and or email, you have just about everything you need to at least get started in nurturing their relationship. Oftentimes, churches want all of it all at once. Like, what's your name? What's your address? What's your email address, what's your phone number? What's your social security number? And it's like, they're not there yet, bro. Like, give them, like, trade your email address for a free mug or trade your email address for a donation to some sort of like missions agency or something like that. But you can't get it all. But churches just get greedy and frankly lazy because they're unwilling to massage the relationship. Nick Clason (07:35): And I can hear you on the other end because I'm, I've been there, right? I'm like, ah, we need all that info and it'd be great. Yeah. If we did okay. However, like give people time to warm up to you. All right? A lot of times people use marketing, um, in church, we don't know. We don't talk and do a lot of like marketing type stuff, but, but a lot of times what needs to happen is we need to like date them first before we marry them. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of times in churches, we just, we want all the married information like, sign this birth certificate, sign up, you're a member now. Like, who, who, hold on. Like, I just was checking it out for one week. Um, but Warburg does say that there is much more willingness in the next generation to give out and, and distribute that type of information. Nick Clason (08:20): And so use that to your advantage. Uh, the other thing you talked about was hybrid stuff. And this is really where I wanted to like zone in because he talked about a Zoom class for like a, a marriage class that they did. Um, that's I think where a lot of people's minds go when I say hybrid, and that's quite frankly one of my least favorite options. Um, I think it's a necessary evil and can be used strategically, but like when I say like hybrid, I don't just mean like zoom small groups. I can, um, I much more mean like showing up where people live their lives in Bible reading plans, in, um, group chats, in social media, in Facebook groups, like all type, all types of things like that. That's what I personally mean when I talk about hybrid. And so the same is true, um, with what he's talking about. Nick Clason (09:12): Like, you can do those types of things, right? Like you can make those types of, um, classes or whatever via hybrid, via zoom, via whatever. But, um, that, that wouldn't be my only thing. I think podcasts are another amazing, uh, tool to be utilized. A lot of people, um, have the bandwidth desire and willingness to listen to super long form things. And so like if you're a pastor, you know, that like you cut a lot of things out of your sermon for sake of time and brevity and whatever the case might might be. Um, a podcast is a way to, to give more information that might still be helpful, informative, relevant, uh, that you don't have time to put in a sermon. And so, you know, like if you, again, if you've ever preached like, you know, that there are always things that you often have to cut. Nick Clason (10:01): And so, um, podcasts are a great long form tool. They can also double and take place on, on YouTube. Okay? Um, and so I thought, I thought what he had to say there was, was fascinating and a lot of the stuff that I, um, have talked about on this podcast, church websites, connections, hybrid stuff, he, he hit all that. And so, you know, as a creative of this podcast, I was like, yes, you know, Warren Bird is like the Yoda of church data and like the, the just like landscape of church growth and trajectories and what's next and what's coming, like all that stuff. So if he says it, I'm, I'm pumped about it. Okay. What I think was interesting, um, and what I wanna talk about a little bit is when he talked about the jury still being out. So let's dive into that discussion a little bit deeper. Nick Clason (10:54): All right, so he said the jury is still out basically saying the digital and hybrid work for evangelism, but do they work for discipleship? Um, if you remember, he used a very tactical example of Good Friday and nailing the nail into a cross. And he's like, that's just so monumental and meaningful to me, and I agree with him. Um, but that is not the only way in which people experience hands-on tactical discipleship, especially newer and, and younger generations. They're much more inclined and willing to explore things through a digital lens, relationships through a digital lens, um, and lean more into like hybrid type of opportunities and options. And so, like at my church, like what Warren broke it down to is like reaching people and or evangelism, like bringing people into your church, which I would argue is necessarily evangelism. It's evangelism from an organizational standpoint. Nick Clason (11:57): Like as a church organization, we have to be able, ready, willing to, to bring in guests. But like, is that really evangelism? I would argue evangelism is, you know, a a meaningful, a person taking a meaningful next step to Jesus, particularly one who doesn't classify themself as a Christian. And more often than not, that happens in a interpersonal one-on-one relationship. That's just how I would classify evangelism. Discipleship, I think is quite frankly the same thing. And, um, those evangelism and discipleship used to all be one word, right? It was just telling people about Jesus and then making people more like Jesus so that they would eventually go multiply themselves and their lives into other people's lives. But we, we drew a line at the moment of conversion and we switched evangelism, um, as people who don't have a relationship with Jesus. And discipleship is people who do have a relationship with Jesus, but that's not what Warren was talking about, right? Nick Clason (12:55): But he was talking about reaching people and then actually growing them into a mature follower of Christ. So, um, you probably have a definition of what a disciple is at your church. Every church in America probably has some definition of what a disciple is at their church. It all is derived in some way, shape or form. Probably off of the great commission at least I would argue that it should be, because that was Jesus's very deliberate specific commands for us to go make disciples of all nations. That being said, I have a definition, we have a definition in our church about discipleship. So I wanted to explain what that is and then break down those three different elements of a disciple and talk through some hybrid ideas. Again, I'm not vouching for or saying this is successful, not successful, whatever. I'm simply just saying, if you look at the definition of a disciple, these are ways in which digital ministry and hybrid ministry can be supplemented and or utilized to help bring about mature, um, a mature follower of Christ. Nick Clason (13:54): So let's talk about that on the other side. Okay? So like I said, my church classifies and breaks down disciple, uh, we call it a three D disciple. Um, I creative, whatever I get it, um, wasn't mine. So not taking any credit for it or flack for it, just it is what it is. If you're a church, medium marketing manager, if you're a church, if you're a youth pastor, like you probably inherited something like this unless you're the lead pastor that came up with it. In most cases, if we're on church staff, we are experiencing these things and now we just have to figure out how to carry out the vision of where we work. That's just the reality of, of being in a position like this. So we have, um, a disciple who's devoted, developing and deployed. Okay? So devoted is simply learning how to work with God. Nick Clason (14:40): And I thought there are tons of hybrid options in that if we're trying to help teach someone how to walk with God, there is a, a really great interpersonal moment and element that can take place, especially if you have like a mentorship relationship. And quite frankly, you should, you should do that. You should be leaning into some sort of mentoring relationship, someone who's older than you, who's further along than you and can help take you to the next level. However, there are personal disciplines that I believe also need to take place. Bible reading, um, prayer, and I would argue, and I don't know that this is a widespread thought, but scripture memory and each of those three things, Bible reading, prayer, scripture, memory, I think there are ways in which you can lean into a digital option. Digital flashcards, digital fill in the blank. There's, there's an app I use, a bible memorization app I use for memorizing scripture, um, Bible reading and prayer, both in the YouVersion Bible app. Nick Clason (15:37): There are tools and like assets and parts and pieces within the YouVersion Bible app where I can read the Bible more robustly. I can read it with friends, I can do it in community, I can prayer, I can offer prayer requests. They have a daily like guided prayer moment. All those things I think are tools. And if your church has, has the money, has the way, the ability, the means, the resources to pull some of those things together and create an app or create resources, all the more power to you. If not, you can just point people towards some of these other resources, curate some of the good ones that help and have helped you grow in your faith and can help other people grow in their faith as they lean more into their devoted ness and their walk with God, right? Again, this is from my church's definition of a disciple, the second D. Nick Clason (16:25): So the first D is devoted, the second D is developing, so they're devoted to Christ to learn to walk with God. And then they're also growing, uh, talk about, uh, we, we use this phrase growing in the character and the competencies of Jesus. So more and more like Jesus as well as, um, doing more and more things like Jesus, one of the first, second or third John I can't remember, says, if you want to, um, follow Jesus, you need to learn to walk as he walked. That's the competencies part, right? Doing the same things, doing the things of Jesus. And so how can we help grow people to be more, um, have a better character, more like Jesus, um, and doing more of the things like Jesus. Um, I, I just actually shared in this exact seat with my students via video for a series coming up about a light bulb versus a laser. Nick Clason (17:15): Both of them are lights, but one is an intensified, focused and like very intentional light. And one is just illuminating the room. Both are light. One is one has incredible power. And I would say as you are developing into the character and into the competencies of Jesus, one of the ways to harness that is through relationships and through like direct accountability. Not just friendship, not just like small group, like surface level and maybe even a little deeper than surface level, but actual meaningful, like intentional relationships. Paul David Tripp has a, a quote where he says, you need to be intentionally ob protrusive in somebody's life. And that's what I mean by accountability. Can you accomplish that digitally? I don't think so. Um, there is an element of a one-on-one relationship, a need and need type of relationship. That being said, the accountability partner I have in my life lives 900 miles away from me. Nick Clason (18:11): And we talk every single week, once a week, 6:00 AM every Monday morning. And it's a, an expected phone call that's not in person, quote unquote. It's, it is a life on life relationship, but it's done using the means of technology. That being said, we went to college together and grew up together and have raised our kids together at times. And so like, there was definitely a life on life moment that brought us closer together that then allowed us to use technology to continue on in the relationship as opposed to just simply abandoning it, which is what often happens when distance takes place. The third one is deployed, which is simply the idea of being sent out, right? Jesus sent out the 12, then he sent out the, um, 72, and then the 72 that they reached, he, he sent all those out as well. So we saw within Jesus' life, four generations of multiplication. Nick Clason (19:01): How can we deploy people using technology and hybrid? Again, the more like you hone this, I think, and if you have an actual nomenclature for it and strategy around it, you can build infrastructures, websites, apps, eBooks, like all kinds of things to give people regardless of where they are. And if you've sent people out overseas, you can still put resources in their hands to help them as they are reaching people, reaching their neighborhoods, reaching their coworkers, having some of these like conversations, these Jesus, these evangelism, these discipleship conversations. I think what Warren is saying is like, there's a life on life moment. An aspect, an element that takes place where people grow. And I agree with that. And he's saying, can digital replace it? And again, I've said this before, but I think if we try to just create, if we, if we say that a Sunday morning sermon is the only place that discipleship happens, and then by recording it and live streaming it, that's our like hybrid or like our digital option, then no, I don't think that that's actually helping people become more developed in their character and competency of Jesus more devoted to him, more able to multiply themselves and send other people out and all the, like, just from a sermon being online, probably not, but a more robust tool, more robust resources that are out there I think can, can help people, right? Nick Clason (20:28): Like knowledge can be transferred from one person to another. An element of being devoted element of developing for sure things that are communicated clearly and concisely through that transfer of knowledge. I think those things can happen. Can life transformation happen in hybrid? I would say yes. I don't think it looks the way we think it looks, and I think it probably requires a pretty massive overhaul, um, to be able to do that. But I definitely think it's possible. And here's where the rub often happens. You have to have buy-in with the people who hold the money and write the checks and do those things to get some of those things up off the ground. Because without that, you're simply just like the social media guy trying to do all that through Instagram posts. And can it be done? I think so. Is it the most effective way? Nick Clason (21:22): Probably not. Probably not. Um, and so that's how, that's how I would classify it and that's how I would answer and respond to Warren's question about hybrid ministry. Yes, but with some infrastructure and some overhauling for sure. Well, hey, thanks everyone for sticking around, uh, for the duration of this entire episode. I hope you found it helpful. Go listen, like, subscribe to the Kerry Newh episode, especially that part about Warren Bird. Go subscribe to us on YouTube. Give us a, like, all that stuff helps us get found, indexed and seen by the people, um, out there on YouTube that are asking some of these same questions like, is digital discipleship even a possibility in today's world? And, um, 'cause I think it is, and I think that's a meaningful message as we move forward, especially into the next and younger generations, um, of our church members and even those people who have not yet discovered our church. Hit the link in the show notes again for full transcripts of this episode and every other episode that we have over at hybridministry.xyz, grab the Adobe Premier Pro Transitions, grab the free ebook, go like us on Instagrams, follow us on TikTok, follow us on YouTube. And until next time, and as always, we're helping make digital discipleship easy. Stay Hybrid!
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Together, let's embrace the future of ministry with AI as our guiding light! 🌟 Don't forget to like, comment, and turn on notifications so you won't miss our upcoming episodes packed with more cutting-edge insights! 🌟 AIinMinistry #ChurchTechRevolution #YouthMinistry #DigitalTransformation #HybridMinistry 🎥 YOUTUBE https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick 📱SOCIAL TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick INSTAGRAM: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry 🗒️ SHOWNOTES http://www.hybridministry.xyz/058 🆓 FREEBIES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook SHOWNOTES Water Warz Reel: https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cuh_R6DtuMm/?next=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instagram.com%2F TIMECODES 00:00-01:59 Intro 01:59-08:46 AI TOOL #1: OpenAI.com (Openai.com) | ChatGPT 08:46-12:30 AI TOOL #2: Generative AI - Adobe Photoshop Beta (https://www.adobe.com/?sdid=49F59KY6) 12:30-18:31 AI TOOL #3: Express.Adobe.Com (https://www.adobe.com/?sdid=49F59KY6) 18:31-24:18 AI TOOL #4: AutoPod.fm (https://www.adobe.com/?sdid=49F59KY6) | Adobe Premiere Pro Editing Extension 24:18-29:08 What Does AI Mean for the Future of the Church? TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Well, hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode and addition of the Hybrid Ministry show. In this episode, I want to give you four different artificial intelligence, also known as AI tools that I think are going to make my life infinitely easier as a church communications, church, social media, and content creator. Moving forward here in 2023 and beyond, I truly believe that we are just at the beginning and just at the precipice of AI and artificial intelligence. And so I want to give you four tools that I think you can use that are not that complicated and that are not that scary. So let's go ahead and let's dive into that today. Hey, if you have not already though, please leave a rating or a review, a like, or a subscribe to our YouTube channel. We are on YouTube, we are on TikTok, we are on Instagram. (01:02): Link to all of that in the show notes. And in the show notes, you can find our full and complete transcript for this episode, which is going to be episode number 58 in the link, uh, to the, in the link in the show notes, you'll also find two freebies. We have a freebie four, number one, your, um, free eBooks so that you know how to create a TikTok completely from scratch on your cell phone, no other, uh, devices or things needed. And secondly, if you are using other devices or if you are using a video editing software, i e Adobe Premier Pro, which is what I typically use, we also have a freebie for your, um, motion transitions that you can get 100% for free. Check both of those things out in the show notes. But without any further ado, let's dive in and talk about why and what these four different AI artificial intelligence programs can be. (01:58): Let's go. All right, tool number one is open ai.com chat, g p t. This is the one I think that has gotten all the rage here recently. And I just wanna show you, if you are on YouTube, you can go ahead and see this. If not, I'll go ahead and read it for those of you on the podcast. But I literally, I just signed up for this, um, account. So, you know, full disclosure, I haven't been using it a lot. This is not something that I've used at all. But, um, we are in a, a series in my church right now at the time of this recording called Party Starter. And we've been doing short videos. You got to see me edit some of those, um, if you've watched or listened to any of the most recent episodes. But I typed out a prompt that said in chat G p t that said, create a paragraph worth of copy for Cross Creek students' YouTube video about being a party starter. (02:54): So that's just generic, right? There's not anything like in particular or any particular video that I was gonna use this for, but here is what it it spit out for me. Are you the life of every gathering, the spark that ignites the fun and the ultimate party starter? Couple emojis. Join us at Cross Creek students where we embrace the art of celebration and revel in the joy of bringing people together, more emojis. Our YouTube video's all about honing your party, starting skills from electrifying dance moves to unforgettable icebreakers. Discover the secrets to turning any event into an unforgettable fiesta and watch the energy soar as you take center stage as the ultimate party catalyst more emojis. Don't miss out on the laughter, the comradery, and the unforgettable memories. Hit that subscribe button and let's unleash the party animal within you to more emojis. Hashtag party starter, hashtag unleash the fun hashtag Cross Creek students. (03:52): So if you're on YouTube stream, you can go ahead and see this, but what I think that this can do for church, um, social media people, for church content creators, is I think that it can help give you a starting spot for things like this for copy. This is for copy for YouTube video. I'm sure you could put in prompts for copy for a website. I'm sure you could put in prompts for captions for a short form like TikTok, Instagram reel, YouTube short video, uh, podcast episode descriptions, all sorts of things. And what it's going to do is it's going, I mean, here's the thing that that is, uh, it scares people, but I think it, I, I believe there's not a ton of reason to be scared in the land of like this taking over the world is all this is doing is this is just sourcing the internet and it's using the internet as its research database, so to speak. (04:49): And so like these words and some of this like, Hey, hit the subscribe button. Like, they're just getting that because every YouTuber in America is saying hit the subscribe button. Like, this isn't something new or something different. You know what I mean? And so, uh, I don't think that like it has a while. It feels like it has a mind of its own, right? Like really what it's doing is it's just sourcing other places and parts on the internet. And I wouldn't use this exact copy, but what I would do is this is good, right? And I would take it and tweak it and it included things like, you know, this phrase in here, unforgettable fiesta. Like, I would probably not include that, but now I probably will, you know, and there's a million different emojis in here. And again, I wouldn't naturally write that way, but I see a lot of people doing that. (05:35): And so maybe that's something that's beneficial and, uh, doesn't hurt me, you know, to include it. And so, uh, I think that this can be a great springboard and starting spot for churches. Now, where I think it can get dangerous is when this is like, this is all that we're doing, right? And there's, there's no more, um, creativity, ingenuity outside the box, and we're just simply copy and pasting. If you do that, wow, it might seem like a easy for you and quick to use tool. The reality is your brand isn't gonna have anything unique about itself anymore, right? Think about it like this is sourcing off the internet. So if you copy and paste this, you're just like everything else out there on the internet and there's nothing unique about you or your brand, and maybe in some cases you don't need that, you like, uniqueness is not necessarily gonna be the goal. (06:28): But in other cases, I do think that you want to make sure that you stand out. Why would someone go to your church as opposed to the church next to you or the church down the road if all the churches, you and the church down the road, the next church, the next church, the next church are all just using chat g p t to fill in all of the gaps and all of the blanks. Well, my question to you is like, what is gonna make your church something that they're interested in, attracted to, or, you know, planning on going to in, in the future? And so that's where I think this can operate and start as like a springboard. You know, I've told you I'm a youth pastor and so I use a lot of, um, pre-written content or curriculum, and I use it as my like, original source of study. (07:12): So I might, uh, download a curriculum that we either bought off the internet or that we subscribed to or something like that. And I might look at it, I might get the verse from it. I might get the theme from it, I might get the idea from it. I might even have, uh, the original author wrote an illustration and that might jog my memory to create some sort of illustration that that matches in my own life, or one that makes sense. Um, like, oh, they're going this direction. Can I think of a story in my life of something like that that happened? You know what I mean? And so that's a similar thing how I see ai. It's a starting spot. Um, and it could in some cases be an ending spot if it's good enough. And if you get good enough at prompt writing, granted, I just opened this account and so this is my literal first prompt I've ever asked chat g p t about. (07:59): So I'm gonna get better. And that's gonna actually, I think, be a skill that is gonna be marketable in the future, is your ability to write prompts and write things with, uh, open AI and chat g p t, um, or other AI systems. But this is just, like I said, this is just the beginning and something that I think can make your life easier as a church content creator. 'cause what we know, and one of the things that we hear a lot, one of the pain points of digital and social is, I don't have the time. Well, these things help reduce some of the friction and some of the barrier to entry that it takes for you to have the time to do some of these things. And it's gonna help wipe away some of that, and it's gonna level that playing field and let you have more time doing what you feel matters most in your career and in your job. (08:47): AI resource number two that I think you can be using in your church is generative AI through beta. Now, at the time of this recording, which is Monday, July 17th, Photoshop has released a beta, uh, version of its of its software, um, that if you are an Adobe user, you already have sitting in your Adobe Creative Cloud. If you go into your Adobe Creative Cloud and you look, uh, off to the left, I believe, um, there is a thing that says, uh, beta. Now I can't find it. Oh, there it is. Um, well, that's under create. Now, all apps, um, there's a, oh, right here, beta apps, there is a spot for some, some beta things you can test features and things that are currently under development. And so I downloaded the Photoshop beta, uh, version. And in that, uh, Photoshop beta, they have generative things, which is ai. (09:50): And so you can highlight and create a little portion of it. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see this video of me using it for the very first time I created a, a TikTok or a short of it. And these are the results. So for our staff picnic last week, we did a hot seat portion, a hot seat segment. And so, um, all I did was I said, create a background engulfed in flames, and then a seat, I included a seat in it. And so here's a seat right here. If you're watching on YouTube stream, you can see it. And then all I did was I typed in the, the text hot seat right above it. It was also a staff picnic. And so I said, create for me a, um, picnic background, and this is what they created. And then I just dropped our logo right in there on top. (10:33): I used, uh, another software called Sidekick that I get from D Y m download Youth ministry. And we had name picker right here. So typically I would put this c in the middle, but since I knew there were gonna be names right here, um, I, I just left that space blank. What happened was they actually ended up using this as the like landing slide for the entire event. So as people were walking in, whatever, and I didn't like it 'cause I was like, that C should be lower, right? I created it for the, the name picker that I was supposed to go right down here, uh, below it. All that to be said. And actually it was funny too, people were like, what is this right here? What is this like thing on the, on the picnic table? And you know what I would tell them? (11:14): I was like, I actually don't know. 'cause AI generated this entire graphic. So all that to be said, Adobe Photoshop AI with generative, uh, the gener, the generation, I don't know what they call it, generative fill. Um, that is another hack that I think you can use. I actually also built, um, a banner like, uh, a standup banner for first time guests that says, first time start here. And I built the ba the entire background using Adobe, uh, ai. And what I think is going to, excuse me, what I think is gonna be cool about it is I think that, um, it will take, it will reduce the amount of time I'm using to find backgrounds and other like elemental things. Um, not the Pixar movie, but elements of graphic design that I need in some sort of Photoshop background. So if you are an Adobe Creative Cloud, uh, user, uh, I would, I would a hundred percent recommend you downloading this and checking it out and just adopting it as your primary Adobe Photoshop file right now. Um, and just start playing with it and just start getting used to it and some of the features that go along with it. (12:31): Okay, AI thing number three is the new express.adobe.com. So I actually stumbled upon this searching for Adobe Photoshop beta. So if, again, if you're an Adobe subscriber, and if you are, uh, watching this, you can see this on my screen, but over here off to the, the left, I found, uh, just kinda like putzing through some stuff, I found some different categories over here. And under this, uh, under all under these all apps thing, under mobile, I found this thing right here called Adobe Express. And so I click it, um, and it took me to, now granted, right now I'm not able to replicate it or recreate it, um, but it took me to a, just a website and I was like, huh. And so as I played around on here, um, Adobe Express, yeah, hit launch, it took me to this thing right here. (13:34): And if, then it takes you to just this website and it's got just sort of like these Canva vibes, right? And so you have Instagram Square Post as a template, you have video as a template presentation, resume flyer, Instagram story, logo, infographic, webpage, and like it has all the elements. You can also start one from scratch. And so like, if you just click on one and you wanna create, say, an Instagram, uh, post from scratch, you can upload, uh, footage from your device or whatever, or you can use some of these free things free included with your Creative Cloud software. Um, so like, let's say I wanted to use right here, this basketball thing, and then you just get in there and you just, you just start creating it, right? You can, um, remove background, you can blend, you can affect, you have adjustments, um, highlights, brightness, contrast, all these things, all of the basic things that you can edit with. (14:35): And then at the end of it, uh, you can, you can create a completely, um, free, if you have the thing downloaded, a completely free, um, version of a graphic or a video or an animation or something like that. And so this is something again, and here's what I don't know, I don't know if this is considered AI or not, but it's a new feature. It's an Adobe Beta feature that I discovered that I found out, and then I thought, man, this is actually useful. And so last week at our church, we did a thing called Water Wars. And so if you are watching on the screen, I'll also put the link in the show notes. Um, but if you want to go check it out, you can, um, making myself a note so I don't forget to put it in there. You can go check out what, uh, what, what that thing looks like, what my water wars video that I created, uh, looked like. (15:30): And so, uh, it's right here in this folder. And so it's just a basic graphic with a little bit of sound and animation, just a reminder and, uh, you know, something basic, something simple, but something that would've taken me some time to create an Adobe Premier or, uh, completely something from scratch. I'd have to go like maybe to like motion array and download some sort of template, but now through the subscription that I'm already paying for as a church content creator, a church social media manager, through that subscription, I'm already having access to this other protocol and this other, um, thing over here, this other program that they're beginning to create. And so I think they're gunning for things like Canva and some of these other web-based design things. But like I said, you, if you are already a subscriber to it, you already have access to some of these things. (16:26): If you do not have a subscription to Adobe Creative Cloud, um, I, I just looked it up, you can get it annualized for about $419 a year. And let me just say that in years past, you are gonna need to hire somebody who had, uh, who had knowledge of this program without generative AI and without express.adobe.com, without some of these things. And you were probably still gonna have to buy for them church, uh, softwares to use. All right? And so now for less than $500 a year in your overall annual operating budget with a subscription to Adobe Creative Cloud, you can have it for 419 80 $8 a year. I'm not an affiliate, I'm not getting any kickback from this, though. I should, but this will help your church, I believe, reaching out into the next generation and reaching out and doing things in a digital way with, with hybrid ministry. (17:26): Now, you may need to hire a person that does know how to use this, or you may be a person on your staff that already knows how to use it. Either way, this is worth the investment. If you ask me. And there are other apps, there are probably cheaper things. But here's the thing, uh, if, if you don't already have, uh, a top of the line software like Final Cut Pro or something like that, I would recommend that you make some sort of investment. I'm an Adobe fan, I'm gonna recommend them, but you should use something and you should use more than just a free, a free version or a, a, you know, thing that you get off the internet, um, using like Canva or some of those things completely for free, because the more free stuff you have, you have to string it all together. And it doesn't always like communicate or talk. Meanwhile, everything under Adobe's umbrella, you saw this with some of my last videos, everything under that umbrella, all works together, talks together and can be created together. So, um, I would, if if you're not already doing that and you're looking for a recommendation, that would be my recommendation to you. (18:32): Okay? Item number four. And this one, frankly, might be the one that I'm most excited about. It is called Auto Pod. It is an Adobe Premier Pro. So video editing extension plugin, it's 29 99 a month, spits out to be about 300 bucks a year. And it gives you, um, three different features that I think all three are really, um, useful and really important and really potentially relevant for your social media and hybrid and digital presence. So I'm gonna actually show you all of them. If you're watching, I'll also talk through them. It has three. So it, it falls in, uh, into your extensions section right here. And you'll see there are three different features in it. The first feature is the jump cut editor. So you click that open and what it does is it pops up this little thing. It already has my, my info saved. (19:32): And so I tell it the silence cutoff level. I tell it to remove silences longer than, um, however many seconds, and then it will create jump cuts for me. Now granted, what I'm about to show you is this is based off a video with, um, with a backing track on it already. So you know what, that's probably not the best example. Um, but if I put in, like, if I put in the original like source file without the backing track, which is what I'm gonna do, um, I don't wanna do that. Uh, I'm going to get rid of that. Now if I do that, I can, um, do this jump cut editor. (20:20): Oh, now it does have some, it does have some funky requirements. Like, like you can't have, um, gaps in your sequence and you can't have your like video overlays. All right? So like, I gotta get rid of all the overlays and all the graphics and all the animations and all the things. Uh, what I did last time was I just highlighted all of them and hit command C or command X actually. So it was cut, so it removed them, I animated the sequence, and then I just dropped them right back in at the same, at the same spot. Um, so if I put all of my sequences together on the same line, if I remove any of the other sound effects or any other things, I just have a standard. If you're watching, I have a standard video line, um, and a standard audio line. So now I'm going to create these jump cuts. All audio tracks must start on frame zero. Audio track three does not start on frame zero. So it's reading, it's seeing this little baby, uh, sound effects. I'm just gonna try and highlight anything, delete 'em, and now try it. There we go. All right, so now if you see it encoded and it, and it, if you're watching it made very small cuts, but you'll be able to go in here now and you'll be able to see some of these jump cuts Nick Clason (21:43): Adds value life, someone who starts the party recognizes the increase they have and they use it wisely. So with that in, Nick Clason (21:53): So with that in mind, um, that now some of those like zoom in and out, those are mine. I've already done those. Okay. But it made those cuts for me. So I most recently was editing one of these. I can show you that one. This video right here. I dropped everything in and I just asked it for jump cuts, and then I was able to go through and I was able to do my zoom in and zoom out. That's how I do a one camera setup. Um, but give it variety, right? I don't have a, a multicam setup, but I have a one camera setup and I just zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out every so often. And so if you're watching, you'll be able to see this right here. There's that angle, and then I'm in, right? And then as I'm in, I come to the end of this sequence and I boom, zoom right back out. (22:35): You see that? And the way I generated those was through Auto pod, through the, the jump cut editor. All right? The other thing that it'll do for you is if I go back over here to this original one, um, you can do a social media clip, uh, thing. And so if I want to take it from right now, it's wide screen, 1920 by 10 80, if I wanna take it to 10 80 by 1920, auto reframe it, give it an end page, offset it and all that stuff, I create this clip. Now look, boom, now it put it in this, the right sequence size, and it reframed it for me. Now, if you go back a couple videos, when I was creating social clips, I was doing that manually, but now Auto Pod, it'll do that for me completely on its own. The third thing that it does that I'm not gonna be able to show you because I don't have a Multicam setup, but if I had a Multicam setup up, um, as really good for podcasting. (23:31): And so if I had like maybe a wide camera with two people in it, and then two cameras, one set on each of the people and they each had a audio source, you put all those sources in just on different layers. So layer one is, say me, layer two is my co-host, and then layer three is, uh, a wide, I would do a Multicam editor and it would just clip it all up so that it knows when and who's talking. And it would put, you know, focus on my camera when I'm talking and focus on my co-host camera when they're talking. And then the wide camera every so often, that used to all have to be done manually. And now through ai, through Auto Pod, it's able to sense the, um, audio and like, um, decibel levels on certain audio tracks and make those decisions for you. (24:19): All right, so in conclusion, what does this mean? What I think it means is, I think wherever you are in your journey with ai, listen, I get it. There's gonna be a lot of people that are freaked out by it, and it, it can be freaky. But also I hope that through this episode you are able to notice and see that it's helpful and it can be a helpful tool and one that's useful and beneficial and can actually save people time. Here's the reality. I'm a pastor, I'm a youth pastor, and my last year of this job has felt a lot more like a digital content creator than a youth pastor. And so my hope is that some of these tools actually free me up to do some more of my pastoral duties as opposed to sitting behind my computer and learning how to do some of these things manually that I've had to learn over the last year. (25:10): And so with the advent of ai, it's gonna make, hopefully my job easier. Now I get it. If your primary and sole responsibility at your church is to be a content creator, you might be fearing for some of your job security because you're like, this is doing some of the elements of my job. And I definitely get that. But what I think, and I heard this on a podcast, I can't remember who, or I would link it. Um, if I find it, I'll link it. But what I, what I remember is they said like, Hey, be the, be on the front edge of this, right? Cut on the front edge of this stuff. And if you're a content creator, start using it and don't be afraid of it, but instead use it so that you are able to be on the front edge wave of this. (25:53): And, for example, auto Pod, it's probably only gonna get better Beta Photoshop, it's in its beta version as it releases and launches into its full form, they're going to create more and better features on it. And I wanna be a user so that I know how to use it now so that the learning curve isn't as steep for me, that's just a personal preference. But honestly, I should have dropped this episode six weeks ago or, or two months ago. But here's the reality, I didn't have the bandwidth or the margin. Um, because we had summer camp going on and we had family vacation and some of these other things that I didn't have time to sit down and start playing around with it. It was only up until last week when I had a little more time to open and find Adobe Photoshop Beta and to find this express adobe.com thing, which I didn't even, I didn't even know I was looking for. (26:43): Um, and Auto Pod, honestly, I heard that from the Pro Church tool show probably two or three months ago. And I sent myself an email and it's been sitting in my email inbox to explore it. And I didn't have the bandwidth to explore it up here until last week. And so I get it, like the learning curve can be steep, but the quicker you're able to force yourself into that space, if you can give yourself an hour a week to just explore new things and learn new things and not be in creation mode, but be able to find yourself and be in exploration mode, those types of things will help you be able to be innovative and creative and on some of the front edge lines of these things. Not because being first to market is the goal, but because these tools here can help make you more effective as a digital content creator. (27:31): And if you're more effective and your church is more effective in this digital strategy, you hopefully are reaching more people with the life saving and eternally perspective. Um, you know, eternally perspective creating reality of salvation that's available to us in Jesus Christ alone. And that is why we do this. We want to reach people with the message and the hope of the gospel of Jesus through our digital and hybrid means. And I want to encourage you to do that 'cause I want you to be effective, not 'cause I want you to be first. Hey guys, so glad that you stuck around to be in the end of this episode. If you're still here, leave us a like, leave us a subscribe, leave us a rating, hit us up on YouTube. Um, examples from this episode are gonna be up on YouTube if you're not already there. (28:22): If you are on YouTube and you wanna see the full transcripts, some of these other things, hit the link in the show notes down below in the description. If you're on a podcast and you want to see some of these things, hit the link in the show notes as well and it'll take you over to YouTube, take you to my TikTok, take you to my Instagram, come hang out with me. Let me know you're there. Ask us some questions if you have some, we'd love to do another q and a episode here in the soon to be near future. But don't forget free stuff in my, in my, uh, description as well. As always, don't forget, stay hybrid.
Welcome to the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, where we explore the ever-evolving landscape of ministry in the digital age. In this enlightening episode, we dive deep into the emerging Generation Alpha and its future implications for pastors and church leaders. 🎙️ Unraveling Generation Alpha: Generation Alpha, born between 2010 and 2025, is the first generation to be entirely immersed in the digital world from birth. These tech-savvy and highly connected individuals are growing up amidst unprecedented technological advancements, shaping their worldviews, values, and relationships in unique ways. Join us as we dissect the defining characteristics of Generation Alpha and explore how they differ from previous generations. 🧭 Navigating Future Ministry Challenges: As Generation Alpha matures, pastors and church leaders must prepare for new ministry challenges and opportunities. How can the Church effectively communicate timeless truths to a generation that processes information differently? What strategies can we adopt to ensure that biblical values remain relevant in the fast-paced, technology-driven lives of Alpha kids? Nick share insights and experiences that shed light on these crucial questions. 💡 Embracing Innovation and Adaptability: In this episode, we emphasize the importance of embracing innovation and adaptability in ministry. Discover how churches and faith communities worldwide are already leveraging technology to engage with Generation Alpha on digital platforms, fostering meaningful connections and nurturing their spiritual growth. 🌟 Building a Generation Alpha-Inclusive Ministry: Join us as we explore practical tips and strategies for building a Generation Alpha-inclusive ministry that celebrates diversity and encourages genuine connections. From utilizing interactive multimedia content to designing age-appropriate digital discipleship programs, our experts share actionable advice to empower pastors and leaders in reaching and discipling the Alpha generation effectively. 🎧 Tune in to the Hybrid Ministry Podcast and join the conversation on navigating ministry in the era of Generation Alpha. Don't miss this opportunity to equip yourself with the insights and tools needed to effectively minister to the next generation of faith pioneers. 🌐 For more resources, articles, and discussions on ministry in the digital age, visit our website at HybridMinistry.xyz 🎥 YOUTUBE https://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick 📱SOCIAL TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick INSTAGRAM: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry 🗒️ SHOWNOTES http://www.hybridministry.xyz/057 🆓 FREEBIES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook ⏱️TIMECODES 00:00-02:30 Intro 02:30-07:25 Meet Generation Alpha - Who are they? When were they born? What do we know? 07:25-10:38 Three Interesting Trends about Generation Alpha 10:38-18:06 How Generation Alpha will shape the church in the Future 18:06-19:00 Outro TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to Part 3 of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast's (hybridministry.xyz) captivating mini-series! In this episode, Nick Clason delves into the exciting world of video editing and he will explore the art of seamlessly integrating Adobe Photoshop files into Adobe Premiere Pro. Join us as we embark on a crash course designed to empower both beginners and seasoned editors with the skills they need to create stunning, professional-looking videos. From basic editing techniques to advanced tips, we've got you covered. Learn how to bring your vision to life and take your video content to new heights. Don't miss this opportunity to sharpen your creative prowess and join the ranks of skilled video editors! Subscribe now and hit that notification bell so you won't miss a moment of this enriching series. Let's unlock the potential of your video projects together! While you can certainly listen to this, this episode is best consumed via video: PART 1: https://youtu.be/uZzatZ4KFyE PART 2: https://youtu.be/VAKSwE97nYE Hang out on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick ShowNotes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/056 FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis FREE Stock Photo Site: https://unsplash.com/ FREE Church Motion Backgrounds: https://www.churchmotiongraphics.com/free-worship-media/ TIMECODES 00:00-02:43 Intro 02:43-04:10 Opening up Adobe Photoshop and getting things started 04:10-07:47 Creating a Background with a photo 07:47-10:09 Using layers from an old design 10:09-11:06 Creating a Still Graphics from a Video Frame Using Adobe Premiere Pro 11:06-12:16 Adding in a transparent layer ontop of your background 12:16-14:27 Bringing in Layeres from an Old Photoshop Project 14:27-15:29 Replacing a Missing Font 15:29-16:27 How to Make a Clipping Mask over a Text Layer 16:27-17:32 Editing Text in Photoshop with the text tool 17:32-18:39 Adding in other design elements 18:39-19:10 Finalizing and Saving a Graphic 19:10-21:01 Starting Graphic Number 2 21:01-21:19 Repositioning Layers in Adobe Photoshop 21:19-21:31 Using, Adding and Editing Text Layers in Photoshop 21:31-23:12 How to Add drop Shadow to your text in Photoshop 23:12-23:38 Incorporating other layers into photoshop 23:38-24:04 Transforming Layers in Photoshop 24:04-24:55 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Hybrid Ministry. My name is Nick. I am your host today drinking out of my work Cross Creek Students coffee mug. You gotta be on YouTube. See this? Nick Clason (00:22): Mm. Nick Clason (00:23): It's from a Keurig, so it's super mid. Anyway, uh, we are going to be rounding out our third and final, um, Adobe tutorial session. So once again, if you're listening, this is going to be a better one for you to watch. Um, all of that's uploaded to my YouTube. Oh, sorry about that. All that's uploaded to my YouTube channel. So hit the link in the show notes for that. Um, go subscribe, go light, go do all the things. Those things help us a lot. Um, all that being said, um, we have done a long form Adobe, uh, premiere Pro editing. We've done some short form video stuff. Um, and then finally we are gonna round out today with Adobe Photoshop. So I'm gonna make two graphics that I'm going to use in our student ministry pre-roll and I'll just wanna give you a step-by-step tutorial on how to do those. Nick Clason (01:12): Um, the benefit of using Photoshop and Adobe Premier Pro, in my estimation, I've never really used Final Cup Pro or any of the other ones, so I can't speak for those. But the benefit is that when you make a layer in Adobe Photoshop and you bring it into Adobe Premier Pro, you can animate it, you can move it around. And if you need to make adjustments and changes, you just need to go back to your original source file of Adobe Photoshop, change it, and it's changed. You don't have to render it out in a final form thing like A P N G. Um, but keeping it just in that Photoshop file will allow it to be, um, edited and used in Adobe Premiere Pro. So all that to be said, if you've not seen our other videos, go back and look. This video might actually be the best video to start with, like editing videos, one thing, but then animating layers and on top of it via Adobe Photoshop is gonna be what this one's all about. Nick Clason (02:03): And so if you don't have photo, a basic Photoshop skill yet, then maybe start here. Episode 56, go back to episode, uh, 53 and 54. Uh, in the meantime, 55 if you didn't know was our one year celebration. And so that was just kind of a rehash on what is hybrid, why are we passionate about it, and why do we keep doing it? So be sure to check all that stuff out. Finally, I got a couple freebies for you in the show notes, free ebook and free Adobe Premiere Pro, um, animations effects. So go grab either one of those and uh, leave us a like rating, review, subscribe, all the things. Thanks for hanging out. Let's jump in. Nick Clason (02:45): All right, so you are seeing my desktop. Now this is what it looks like if you open up Adobe Photoshop. It's gonna start with a screen that looks something like this. I'm gonna click here, new file. And we are going to make a graphic about our upcoming event called Space Jam. So the width that you want is 1920 by 10 80. If you're going wide screen, if you are going um, vertical, um, you're gonna want 10 80 by 1920. But we are going wide screen. These are your pixels, 1920 by 10 80. The resolution that you want is 72. Um, if you were gonna go for like a print piece, um, you want 300 and if you're gonna go for a print piece, you're gonna wanna switch it from RGB to C M Y K. Those are different color coding things. I don't know a ton about that, but I used to work with a guy who printed banners and that's what he told me. Nick Clason (03:39): So I'm gonna go with him. Um, shout out to Eber, Cincinnati, Ohio. Anyway, uh, RGB is uh, what you want for a screen and that's what we're gonna be doing these for. And uh, the rest of this stuff I am not that worried about. You can click into those. Those are just some advanced options. So any, anyway, we're gonna hit create. So here we go with a completely blank Photoshop canvas. Now, oh, um, so what we're gonna do is, um, I am going to grab, um, a photo. And so I'm gonna go over here and all of my photos are saved in an Amazon photo and Google photos as an automatic backup. Uh, so I am going to log into my photo storage and I'm gonna get a photo of, uh, our students or video of our students. Um, and so let me go to, I have some album, there we go. Albums, cross Creek Students go to some of the more recent ones that's Broomball from winter. That's definitely not the most recent. Um, let me just go here. I got a bunch from camp. Maybe not, you know what, I also have it in Google Photos. Nick Clason (05:18): Yeah, here we go. So it's going to be called Space Jam Basketball and Frisbee Night. So none of these super encapsulate that. Um, I'm just gonna try and find like a fun one. Here's just like, oh, that's the whole video I was gonna get. Let me pick, Nick Clason (05:56): These are all from camp, so half the battle's fine. I'm a good background. So I think I'm just gonna pick this, this one right here. This is them just in the room. So I'm gonna download that sucker. Uh, it's gonna take me a minute cuz it is a video. Um, and so if I didn't want to do a video and I just wanted to do any sort of generic background, I could also do that. So another, uh, resource for you, a couple resources. Um, you can go to unsplash.com, um, and search for anything. So if I wanted to do basketball, just pick basketball. Um, if I also wanted to do Frisbee, I could go here and just do Frisbee. So unsplash.com is a completely free stock footage, um, website. Um, another one for you that isn't footage but is also completely free. CMG create, um, here's your free, they have free like stills. Nick Clason (07:05): So, um, if you get, let's just say like it's more like abstracty than it is like photos. So, um, and I haven't been on here in a minute, so it looks a little different, but I know that they have, yeah, these are all free. So if I just click view all still backgrounds and just kind of scroll through here, you know, and if you wanted like this or, or like one of these, you could totally go for that. So I'm gonna get this Norwegian tones flow, I might use that. So anyway, back to that. Now the other thing I have is I have in my, um, calendaring, I have some, this is our summer calendar just for frame of reference for y'all. Um, lemme pull it up here. So you can see this is where our summer calendar. So it's kind, kind of got like a theme, like a vibe to it. Nick Clason (08:07): So we already got this little icon guy here. We already got these sort of texts and everything like that. And so I've been doing that. Like anytime I would build like a a thing, I would build it with like that sort of vibe, right? The little like oval, the same text using in, out, in Inc. Incorporate the use of the icons. And so that's probably what I'm gonna do here. Um, again and as well. But I got some of those different layers and stuff to work with. And so, um, what I'm gonna do, because later I'm actually going to animate this, um, probably not with y'all, but, but I am probably gonna animate it. I do kinda want to use that. Um, I do kinda wanna use that video that I downloaded of all the students screaming. And so I just need to stick, I'm gonna start this, um, this premiere file. Um, let's see, where did I store those? I think I might actually stored it in social media. Uh, 2023 events. Summer. Yeah. So I'm gonna call this oh four Space Jam and we're just gonna store it there for now. And so all I'm gonna do here is I'm just gonna, uh, pull in Nick Clason (09:33): That video of them screaming into my sequence here so you can hear trying to volume up. All right, so let's go, Nick Clason (10:10): Let's go with that. So this right here exports the frame. I'm gonna put it, um, where I store all of the graphics. So I'm gonna go to graphics announcements, summer slides, actually it's in P S D. Um, and I'm gonna actually make a folder so it all stores in the same spot. Actually, you know what I'm gonna put it, I don't have a great file storage for this, so do not borrow my file storage methods cuz everyone tells me that they can't figure it out. And um, sometimes I can't even figure it out. I'm gonna put it in there. So there's just the frame. Okay, so that being said, now we're back in Photoshop. So now I can go grab just the still frame, um, that I'm gonna use later. And so it's in social media, TikTok and Res 2023 events, summer calendar, space Jam. Nick Clason (10:59): So there's my still boom. Okay, now I, I am going to landry's face, I am going to pull this Norwegian water thing in. And uh, now it's on top of it. So now it covers up my picture. However, if I go over here and I right click or command click or whatever you do to get your other options and go to blending, I can reduce down the opacity. So now my, uh, my video or my, my photo back there, you can see back through here that it's, it's, it's, uh, showing. So I'm gonna click okay for that. Um, and I'm gonna turn this. All right. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna make that background black and white. So image adjustments, black and white. So now it's black and white. I'm gonna just increase the opacity a little bit. I want it to be just faint. All right, it's back there. Can't really tell a lot. Um, and then out of my old graphics, cuz it, I think it's worth, you know, admitting I don't necessarily have to reinvent the wheel every single time. Um, so I'm gonna go pull open, oh, it's in PSDs, I'm gonna go pull open, Nick Clason (12:40): Do water wars. Okay, so it, what it does is it just creates like a second tab there. Now it's worth noting that it, this hasn't been saved anywhere. So I'm gonna go file save as p s D, I'm gonna save it where I save all my stuff, which as you've found out is not very good. But, um, most still graphics, I put in this graphics folder, p s d and I'm gonna save this as space jam. I dunno why I'm so tempted to always put an E on it. All right, so when I click on this, it pulls open the, it, it clicks on this layer right here. I need that and the text beneath it. I also want this wars right here. I also want that and I also want this text. So when I hit shift, it selects all of those things. And now when I pull this over, boom, it's right there. If I were to add those myself, I could go here to the text tool, drag it to whatever size I want, and type in whatever I want, highlight it, change the font over here, all those good things. Um, I don't want that. So over here in my Layers panel, I'm just gonna delete that entire layer, hit backspace and it's gone. Now I don't have this text. I did, I have gotten a new, I've gotten a new computer. As I've told you, I I have backed them all up. So we're gonna go there Nick Clason (14:34): And I think it was called summer but it actually might not have backed up. So it's called Summer regular. So honestly I think I got it from DeFont. So DeFont summer regular, I'm gonna go back over here and I'm just gonna search. There it is. Download Open, installed. So now, yeah, now I can edit it cuz now I have it installed. So it's called space. And what this is right here is, this is a whole layer. So I'm gonna release the clipping mask so that you can see. So this is just a downloaded gradient thing. It kind of goes along and in line with our summer calendar theming and vibes. Um, but if you put a layer, a photo over top of another item, if you right click on it, you can create a clipping mask. So now that text is just got that same gradient file, but it's just over top of it. So now type in Space Jam and the event is July 19th. So we're gonna adjust this to that. And I'm gonna, I gotta move, I gotta select all of it. I gotta select the layer and the text and everything. So Space jam, Nick Clason (16:44): I'm gonna put it here. And then since that event in of itself doesn't really to me explain what the heck it even is. Um, I'm gonna write a little blurby blurb right here. I can make it center aligned. Come join us for some basketball and ultimate Frisbee space, Frisbee jam, basketball Space Jam. That's where I got the name from. It's corny. It's Youth Ministry. Welcome to it Spelled Frisbee wrong. So updating that and then I'm gonna go back over here and I'm gonna go to my icons and I'm gonna include that Nick Clason (17:48): I, Nick Clason (17:53): I'm looking for that. Where it tells me it's centered. I'm actually thinking about just adding it right here and then taking this sucker, just taking this, uh, off screen there. Nick Clason (18:19): Actually, I might go, no, I'll just leave it down so I can bring this select, select, bring all those up, bring this down a little center. Bring that down a little. I gotta grab both of these over here. So select, grab 'em both, put it there, let Jamb in the front a little bit and boom, it, I'm just gonna go with that. So command shift S for save, we're gonna save it where we saved it earlier. Command option shift W and now we'll export it as um, whatever we want. I'm gonna export it their format as a jpeg and then I'm gonna go drop it in that graphics folder. Um, announcements, summer, space, jam, save. Boom. It's done. All right, um, I got one more I wanna do for you. Um, and I'm gonna pull open WhatsApp cuz I sent this photo to my wife. And I'm also gonna just borrow from, I had a slide at camp that I used. You know what, I might have done the whole thing and might have done the whole thing. So I'm gonna download this photo from what I sent to my wife. You're not seeing it cuz it's on a different screen. Nick Clason (20:15): I can't think of where, I'm trying to find where it is. I can't find it so forget it. I'm gonna go back here to see him, to create though and just get me something random. Nick Clason (20:38): I Nick Clason (20:39): I something that I kinda like. I might use one of these just like Rock ones Cali Coast. So here I am. I'm gonna save this as a new one cuz this is going to be, um, a scavenger hunt slide. So scavenger hunt. So over here and downloads Cally coast. I'm just gonna drag it in, takes up the whole thing. I'm gonna drag this to the very top. So that covers everything over here. And this is like your order, right? That things lay. So this is gonna be at the top there. Um, I'm gonna add a text here that says find, I'm gonna command a that I'm gonna change the font to Gotham Black. This is italics and this is Boulder. I'm gonna give it a little bit of a drop shadow. That's too much. It also isn't gonna show up, so I'm gonna give it a little bit of a white drop shadow. Um, yeah, I'm gonna keep it white, but I'm just gonna make it real tight. All right, so it's still a little bit far now that it's that tight, I think no, we'll make it like a deeper purple background. You can see it there moving, right? That's my distance, Nick Clason (22:12): That's my size, that's my spread. Find the name of our guys. Pugsley. Make that a little smaller. I'm bringing that download of him. I'm gonna give Valla a drop shadow. I don't want purple though. If I hit command T, that's how I can change the size. Nick Clason (23:38): I Nick Clason (23:39): Just stay right there. Just a look. Command t again, just a little bit off screen and boom, that's just gonna be that command shift. W Nick Clason (23:59): And that's not a summer slide, so we're just gonna put it regular in here. Save. Done. Well I hope that that tutorial on, um, Adobe Photoshop was helpful for you. That is how I get my layers. And then like a next step would be if I'm adding those to any sort of like pre-roll or whatever, I'll bring those into Adobe Premiere Pro and I can animate each of those individual layers. If you want a completely free animated um effect, go grab that in the show notes, something that's just free and available for y'all. Hope you find that helpful. Like subscribe, leave a comment and hey, ask us any questions that we have. We would love to help y'all out. But until next time, and as always, don't forget, stay hybrid.
VIDEO: Clipping up a Long-Form Video for Short-Form Vertical Video for TikTok, Reels and Shorts for Church Sermons. In this video come sit down and watch as Nick clips up a teaching video in Adobe Premiere Pro (from http://www.hybridministry.xyz/053) to now turn it into a couple of vertical video based pieces of content. Long Form Video: https://youtu.be/uZzatZ4KFyE Hang out on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick ShowNotes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/055 FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis TIMECODES 00:00-01:13 Intro 01:13-02:14 Setup For Editing a Short Form Vertical Video for Church Social Media 02:14-02:52 Converting from Widescreen to Full Screen in Adobe Premiere pro 02:52-03:12 Setting in and out spots on a Sequence in Adobe Premiere Pro 03:12-03:26 Starting your TikToks to catch people's attention 03:26-03:55 Shaving Down Excess Space for Quicker Jump Cuts on TikToks and Reels 03:55-04:19 Zooming in and out for TikTok Videos and Shorts 04:19-05:12 Animating Text Layers in Adobe Premiere Pro 05:12-06:08 Adding Sound Effects 06:08-07:14 Add a Call to Action to Watch the Long Form YouTube Video 07:14-07:57 Adding Music to your Short Form Video 07:57-11:30 Adding Captions to your Reels and TikToks in Adobe premiere Pro 11:30-12:19 Rendering the Short Video for Social out of Adobe Premiere Pro 12:19-14:33 Determining Which Clips to Add for a Social Media Clip 14:33-19:13Clipping out the Spaces 19:13-19:48 Adding the Call to Action 19:48-22:49 Transcribing the Sequence for Reels and Shorts in Adobe Premiere Pro 22:49-22:32 Rendering out the Sequence 22:32-24:17 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): What is going down everybody? Welcome back. Another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. If, uh, you have not, um, if you've not gone back and seen the last one where I edited a full, uh, video down, then I want to encourage you to go back and check that out. That is what I would do for, um, editing a full video for YouTube. Once that's done, render out some thumbnails and some time codes and stuff like that. However, for, um, this episode, what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna edit out three short form TikTok style videos. So I wanna make sure that you can see that. So I'm gonna be using the same premiere file. I'm just gonna resave it and make it vertical as opposed to horizontal. So I wanna show you how that goes down. Um, hey, don't forget, we are on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube. Nick Clason (00:46): Go subscribe all three places, check those things out and hit the show notes for transcripts and my free ebook. Um, tell you how to post a TikTok from scratch on your phone. This, however, is about posting a TikTok. Um, first saving it on, uh, in a video editing software. In particular, this one's Adobe Premier Pro. And then, um, saving those somewhere that you can repost them later. So, without any further ado, let's dive in. Check the sucker out. So, like I said in the last video, you would've seen, um, something like this. This is, um, me opening up the Adobe Premiere Pro file. Um, I don't think I need those, so I'm not gonna worry about those. All right, so here's the, the final. So the first thing I do, Nick Clason (01:36): Okay, you'll never be left Nick Clason (01:38): Out. All right, so the first thing that I do is I, um, file save as. Um, and I'm gonna save it as underscore social one. I do every social, I do a new one, um, just cuz I sometimes move around like backing tracks and audio and resync some things. This is more, this happens a lot more with my podcast than these, but I just try and do a different one every single time. Sometimes I forget, but the more that I I file save as the source file, the less chance for error. Um, and so I'm just gonna start here. Um, so now this is the source file. So now I can change the sequence settings. I'm going up here, sequence settings. Frame size is 1920 by 10 80. That is wide screen. I'm gonna change it to, um, up, up and down, whatever that's called. Verticals vertical video. So that's 10 80 by 1920 pixels, click. Okay. And then, okay, so now you'll see here in my preview I have it, um, uh, 10 80 by 1920. Problem is I need this video to be fully screened. So that's why I kind of change it every single time. So I'm gonna, um, zoom that in in a minute. But first I am going to, um, create a title track. So I'm gonna make it this one right here. In this Nick Clason (02:52): Video we're gonna talk about how, about how, how you, how you can get, Nick Clason (03:01): So I want to do it right there. So I clicked I how you go in. Um, and then right there I hit C to get my razor tool and then v to select that and get it outta here. Now one of the things I like to do is I like to open it with an animation. I feel like as people are scrolling, when they see an animation, it jars them and at least gets their attention at least a little bit Nick Clason (03:22): How you can get, Nick Clason (03:24): I'm going to need to zoom that in though, right? So it needs to be like that. Nick Clason (03:28): How you can get invited to every single party. Nick Clason (03:34): I'm gonna do c v, get rid of that, bring that in ever. I'm gonna make these quicker cuts, you'll Nick Clason (03:42): Never be left out again. Nick Clason (03:44): So where there's a gap there in the audio, how I'm clipping Nick Clason (03:50): This party started and find out. Nick Clason (03:53): So go back here and now I'm gonna just do some zoom. So that's at 1 94. I'm gonna zoom in even more to 2 27, 2 27 and then 2 27. So Nick Clason (04:10): How you can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again how this party started and find out. Nick Clason (04:19): All right, so, um, I also want to take my, uh, thumbnail, which I made in Photoshop. Um, I don't think I showed that on camera, but that's what I ended up making. So I'm gonna bring that in in the P S D and then since I have all those layers, I'm gonna animate those and this is gonna be like my announcement or like title sequence. So I always do one that just like explains what the video is. It's just like an announcement. Um, and so this is that one. This is me, you know, right here at the beginning. So I'm gonna go Nick Clason (04:51): How you can get invited to ev. Nick Clason (04:56): So I'm gonna have that come in at the same time and then I'm just gonna move it so it fits Nick Clason (05:07): How you can get invited to every single party ever. Nick Clason (05:13): I'm gonna do a sound effect as that comes in. I still have that sfx saved from earlier. If you don't have it, um, go find it. Um, wherever you have sound effects saved, um, go find it in your finder and then you can drop it right here in this bin. Since I did use that earlier in my long form video, it's already saved in here. Um, so that's one of the reasons too where I like to go back to the original file cuz all the things that I pulled in are already still there. So I'm gonna do I right there, o right here. I have a lot of other options, but I'm just gonna pick that one. Let's see how that sounds. Nick Clason (05:49): How you can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again. How Nick Clason (05:58): I feel like that needs to be Nick Clason (06:00): How let's get party start. Oh, how, let's get this party started and find out. Nick Clason (06:08): All right, so over here, um, in my shared file, I have created a graphic that I use for my enders. So it's in, uh, shared students social media, TikTok and reels. And then I think I have it in admin. And this is just where I push people to watch the full video on YouTube. So I'm gonna put that right here. I'm gonna let that bounce in, right? And I'm gonna get a, I'm gonna get a whoosh sound with it. Take just the audio there. Boom, put it right there. Yep, Nick Clason (06:51): Let's get party started. Nick Clason (06:53): I wanna make that a little later. Let's do it right here. Nick Clason (06:57): Party started. Find out Nick Clason (07:00): We let it linger a little bit past the talking. Make that oh for out and then I'm gonna go back in here into messages. Um, start the party and I'm gonna get the party music so that there's a little audio track with it. Um, is it necessary? No. Um, does it add to it? Maybe you can be the judge of that. Um, I'll just, I'm just gonna drop it in here. I'm gonna make it negative 25. So it's real low. Nick Clason (07:27): You can get invited to every single party. Nick Clason (07:32): Adjust. I'm gonna adjust these audios right here. So I'm just gonna highlight them all. Select, all right, click audio game. I'm gonna make it 15. So it should be pretty substantial difference how you Nick Clason (07:42): Can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again. How, let's get this party started and find out. Nick Clason (07:52): All right, the only thing is I lost my right there. Nick Clason (07:56): Start and find out. Nick Clason (07:58): All right. Now last thing is I wanna add captions. So I'm gonna go to window workspaces, captions and graphics. Um, here's where I transcribe it. So I'm gonna click, um, from captions to transcript. I'm gonna click transcribe. Uh, okay, I don't know what this is doing. This is new. Okay, so let's do transcript. Nick Clason (08:37): Oh, Nick Clason (08:48): All right, let's try it again. So this is just gonna take a minute. There used to be, this is an updated version. So like I said, I have a new computer in my last video. So there used to be an option to just transcribe the in and out portion so it wouldn't take quite as long. Uh, looks like it got it right here. All those right there. So I'm gonna click captions, click captions from transcript, click this dropdown arrow. I like to do single lines and then create captions. So Nick Clason (09:37): I do, Nick Clason (09:37): So there you see they right there. So I'm gonna go over here and highlight that one. Click command A to select all. And then I'm gonna go change all. So I'm going to, I like to do, uh, every one of my captions for students has been Babe New Pro. Um, I put it in the middle here, but then I do uh, bottom line text, um, take away the shadow and I want to give it a little background. So I'll give it a black background. I'm gonna make it a hundred percent a opaque and then I'm gonna give it some roundedness and some size. See, so it looks like that. Now problem is, it's still covering that. So I have two options. I can lower that. I can lower the texts. So I can do like this and then like top aligned or middle aligned, or I can move this, um, in, in affects controls. And so I think I might do that so my face isn't covered. Um, and then, but that still doesn't solve this problem. If I go there, yeah, if I go there, it's still a little bit. So I might still move this down, just ale and then over here and text command A. Nick Clason (11:01): Yeah, I'm just gonna leave it there in the middle. It's fine. Nick Clason (11:04): Oh, you can get invited to every single party ever. You'll never be left out again. How, let's get, Nick Clason (11:13): You just gotta go back in here and edit anything that didn't get picked up. So how, let's get this party started and find out, out Nick Clason (11:22): Again how, let's get party started and find out started and find out. Nick Clason (11:30): I'm going to cut it right there, back to V to select it. So now when my under slide comes in, it's gone. All right, so now I'm gonna click on sequence command M, make sure my format is set to H 2 64. That's for MP4 files. And now I'm gonna go back out here. Instead of putting it in messages, I'm gonna put it in TikTok and reels. 2023, start the party oh three Nick, oh one title and change it from, uh, entire source to in and out. So it's just gonna do that a little bit right there. Export, there's TikTok number one. Nick Clason (12:20): All right, sweet. Now I'm going to go file save as I'm gonna gimme social two, I'm gonna go back up here to window and get my effects panel back. Some switch from workspaces, from captions to effects. It's probably an easier way to do it, but I'm not gonna worry about it now. It autogenerated all these captions for me. That could be good, that could be bad as long as I keep the same order. I like to tell stories on TikTok as much as I can. So if this story right here can make sense, I'm gonna go with it. Nick Clason (12:54): Church, I, I used to work at one time, likes to be the person ever. Nobody. Nick Clason (13:12): All right, so these captions are messing me up. So honestly, I'm just gonna start this over. So no, I'm not gonna save that. Um, I'm gonna go back in here three premiere and pull this up. So now I'm going to just get myself a clean copy and all I gotta do is change the sequence settings, file, save as social. I'll just make this three. All right, sequin. Gotta click on sequence. Sequence settings. 10 80 by 1920. All right. Now back to my story. So I don't want these things here, okay? I don't need those things for TikTok Nick Clason (14:00): Ever. Whoop, Nick Clason (14:08): Cut V out. I'm gonna animate this in motion. Presets position in smooth bottom. Let's be Nick Clason (14:17): On Nick Clason (14:18): And I'm gonna zoom in, go over to effects controls, and I gotta cut the gaps. Nick Clason (14:27): Nobody, let's be honest, nobody ever likes to be the person left out. One time I moved away from a church that I used to work at Nick Clason (14:54): Just cutting out all these gaps. So C then V and then sliding over. Nick Clason (14:59): And at this church at this, Nick Clason (15:04): I don't need that big long. And Nick Clason (15:09): At this church I did retreats with an Nick Clason (15:25): So I'm gonna bring all of these photos over Nick Clason (15:33): Treats. What's another, Nick Clason (15:36): I just gotta zoom in. Nick Clason (15:38): A friend of mine down the road, he worked at a church. And so together our church would, our two churches would come together. We went on this fall retreat. And so before I moved, I was was one of the ones who went on the, Nick Clason (16:08): All right, let's go back here and shave out any fluff. I don't need whatever this is. Nick Clason (16:14): Our church would come to our two churches would churches. So together our church would come to our Nick Clason (16:21): Cut out that, so it's just this Nick Clason (16:25): Boat. He worked at a churches, our two churches would come together and we went on this fall retreat. And so before I moved, I was one of the ones who went on the retreat, helped plan it, Nick Clason (16:42): Speak, Nick Clason (16:42): Do all the things. And so every single fall we went to camp Fall retreat. And so Nick Clason (16:49): I'm gonna cut all that goal is to make it as short as possible. And Nick Clason (16:52): So every single fall we Nick Clason (16:53): Went to, I felt losing the story Nick Clason (16:56): CSA in Briston, Indiana. And we called the retreat, the Recharge retreat. And it was awesome. And it was awesome. It was awesome and the same place. And because I followed both my and it was awesome, Nick Clason (17:23): Roll Nick Clason (17:23): Around, Nick Clason (17:26): Same. Nick Clason (17:27): And it was awesome. I leave that church, I move on to another one, and that same weekend rolls around. Nick Clason (17:33): Gotta get that out of there. I could have left. It just chose not to the same place. Nick Clason (17:39): And because I follow both my old church and my buddy's church on Instagram, I see that they're both on a retreat. Nick Clason (17:47): And I Nick Clason (17:47): Was like, God, it's interesting both that church and this church are both on a retreat together at, but on the same Nick Clason (17:54): Weekend, probably gonna cut all this out. That's Nick Clason (17:56): Interesting. Wait, Nick Clason (17:58): It Nick Clason (18:00): Go wait. Nick Clason (18:04): And that same weekend rolls around. Nick Clason (18:07): Wait, Nick Clason (18:17): And it was awesome. I leave that church. I'm watching that same weekend roll around, wait in ton Indiana, hold on, hold on. They're together. And what I began to notice, hold on, was that these two churches came together and instead of calling it the Recharge retreat, they called it the Lifeline Retreat or something like that, that these two churches came together and instead of calling it the Recharge retreat, they called it the Lifeline Retreat or something like that. I don't remember, but I felt, so Nick Clason (18:59): This is why I wanna end on right Nick Clason (19:00): Lifeline retreat, but Nick Clason (19:01): I, I felt so left out, left, boom. And then I just wanna kind of leave a little cliff hangry. So I'm gonna go back over here. I'm gonna grab my ender screen. I'm gonna bring it in. It's gonna position in, right? I'm gonna get the sounder for it. Nick Clason (19:31): Same weekend. Nick Clason (19:35): So that's at 1 30 46. All right, so it's less than a minute. Um, YouTube shorts only allows a minute. So I always make my goal to be less than a minute. So transcript, get this outta here. I think that that's my in-out points. I just want the audio transcribed. I don't need all that transcribed. That might be all the little ones. Listen, you and I are learning this all together with the new transcription interface. In the meantime, Marvel at me in this old shirt. All right, so I don't want that. I want create new caption track there. So I need to get all these, I'm gonna do Babes New Pro. I'm gonna do another black. Actually, I'll do a white background with black text this time. I don't want shadow, I want background. And I'm just gonna put it right in the middle and then lower it down just a little bit beneath my face. And let's see how it looks. Nick Clason (21:48): Let's be honest. Nobody ever likes to be the person left out. One time I moved away from a church that I used to work at this church. I did retreats with another friend of mine down the road. He worked at a church and our two churches would come together and we went on this fall retreat. And so every single fall we went to a camp called Camp Tecu Tecumsah in Brookstown, Indiana. And we called the retreat the Recharge Retreat. And it was awesome. I leave that church, I move on to another one. And that same weekend rolls around. Hold on. Was that these two churches came together and instead of calling it the Recharge retreat, they called it the Lifeline Retreat, but I felt so left out. Nick Clason (22:38): I'm just gonna cut that right there. I'm gonna put my out there. I'm gonna come back over here, put my in, and then command M, switch it to H 2 6 4 TikTok, start the party. Boom. All right. And then one more. I like to do three week. I typically post my Title one on Sunday, um, and then I post the other two, um, on a Thursday and a Tuesday. So that's just kind of been my rhythm. Leaves some gaps in the calendar or in the TikTok posting schedule for some other things. So, all right, as this encodes, I am going to wrap up to the next one, Nick Clason (23:37): Actually. Um, I'm going to, you get the gist. Um, I will do the third one the exact same way. Uh, just realized I have a meeting in two minutes, so I'm gonna go ahead and wind this down. Um, I will, I will make the third one without you here. Um, but I hope that you found this helpful, um, in pre-recording and then making TikTok in Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe Photoshop. So, sounds helpful. Leave a like, subscribe, rating, review, hit the notes, uh, show notes for transcripts or my free ebook. And, um, we'll talk soon. Don't forget, stay hybrid.
Watch the Video on our YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/uZzatZ4KFyE Hang out on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick ShowNotes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/054 Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry FREEBIES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook SHOWNOTES Why should churches even care about Digital Ministry in 2023? https://www.hybridministry.xyz/031 VIDEO: Why should churches even care about Digital Ministry in 2023? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rdO5laIUM VIDEO: Have I already Ruined My Church's TikTok Account? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxBn-p9O-eg BARNA EBOOK: https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience Episode 001: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/001 TIMECODES 00:00-02:46 Intro 02:46-06:43 A Brief One-Year History 06:43-10:03 Year One Podcast Stats 10:03-19:27 What is Hybrid Ministry? 19:27-20:41 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am your host, as always, Nick Clason sipping my coffee in my office today out of my, uh, church branded Yeti. I will say this, though, not a big Yeti fan as a coffee connoisseur because the metallic taste of it overrides the notes of coffee. So honestly, I would prefer just drinking out of like one of these types of mugs. So you're not on YouTube, you're not seeing all this. You are missing out big time, not probably really, but we are gonna take a little bit of a break. The last two episodes were, uh, video editing episodes. The, the episode after this one will be a Photoshop specific episode. But the reason that we're taking a little break is because our pilot episode on July 19th, um, and our episode one on July 21st was exactly one year ago from the day that this episode drops, which is July 20th. Nick Clason (01:04): So in this episode, we are just going to do, uh, talk about what is hybrid ministry like, the whole basis, the whole, like per the whole name of this podcast is named Hybrid ministry. What is it? Where did it come from? Why do we start this podcast? Do a little year in review, sort of deal. So that's what's on the docket for today. Hey, listen, if you are new here or if you are just finding us out, wanna let you know in the show notes. You can find links to YouTube, links to our website, hybrid ministry.xyz. Uh, this will be episode 55. Every single episode will have a link to our episode page, which has a full transcript. That's something that we provide for you all for a hundred percent free. So go check that out. Also, just follow us on social. We're on Instagram, we're on YouTube, and we are on TikTok. Nick Clason (01:48): All the links to those in the show notes, because some of those are my personal account at Clay and Nick. Others of those are ministry based accounts, a hybrid ministry. It's one of those too as an option, but your show notes will have everything that you need. In addition to that, we have a couple freebies right now. We have our free ebook, um, helping you download and get TikTok going completely from scratch. And then we also have free Adobe, uh, pro, uh, transitions that you can use to animate text, to animate videos, um, bounce in like your typical YouTube thing. So go grab those in the show notes and we would love it if you would give us a rating or review or subscribe or a, like, all those things help us get found in search so that more people can learn and know about the difference and the ministry that hybrid is going to make in their world and in their ministry. Nick Clason (02:39): So, without any further ado, let's jump in to the one year celebration episode. Glad to have y'all here. So, like I said, today is the day that this episode drops is July 20th. July 20th is the one year anniversary. You know, when I started this podcast, I had a cohost, his name is Matt, um, and Matt is, uh, one of the smartest marketing brains I've ever met. He used to work for, dare to Share if you're in the ministry world, you've probably heard that before. Uh, they're youth ministry, evangelism centric organization. Then he came to work at the same church that I was working at in Chicago land area. And when we were both working in Chicago land, we started this podcast together. Both of us within the first probably like 10 episodes, um, transitioned to different roles for, for different reasons. And one reason or another, um, I ended up here in dfw, Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas area. Nick Clason (03:30): Matt went back out to Colorado, which is home, um, working for a non-church non ministry organization. And because of that, his his ability to record podcasts fell by the wayside. And I became a one man band. And I remember I was moving here, moving to Dallas on the road somewhere in Nowheresville, Oklahoma. And I turned on Colin Cowherd cause I was like, that dude can talk for three hours by himself. And I found that the hardest thing to do. My first episode I recorded it was like 14 minutes. And I was like, how in the world am I gonna do a podcast by myself? Like, this is gonna be mentally exhausting and in a way it is. Don't get me wrong. Um, so that's why I I recruited a co-host to start cuz it's a lot easier to just have a conversation and talk. That being said, I started listening to Colin Coward cuz I saw the writing a little bit on the wall, and I was like, how is he doing this? Nick Clason (04:24): What are his kind of tips and tactics? So I tried to lean in and learn some of those things so that if my co-host fell by the wayside, I would still be able to give y'all a podcast. And, uh, I think around episode 11 or 12, I started doing them by myself. And then, um, I would still reference Matt as, you know, a like member of the podcast, but eventually I just stopped and it just became this, the Solo Nick Clason show. So here you go. If you're, if you're new and you want to go back to some of those early episodes, you will hear another voice that is my good friend Matt Johnson. Still great friends, just, you know, he doesn't have time to to record. He's a new dad, new life out in Colorado, just like we're building a new life here in Dallas, Texas area. Nick Clason (05:08): And so, um, and I never missed a week, um, from when I started until now. We've had a lot of life happen. We moved, um, my wife's mom passed away, my mother-in-law. Um, we went back, you know, had to drive a thousand miles back overnight to get there. Um, when that happened, it wasn't, um, emergent, but it also wasn't totally on the radar when we moved here. One of the reasons we moved here was hoping that she could come live with us, um, you know, fighting her cancer diagnosis. Um, but some things progressed faster than we anticipated. And, and all that happened and I started a new job and I'm getting to know a new church and I'm getting, you know, my kids enrolled in a new school. So a lot of new for us. Um, but thank you for being along on the ride with me because in my new role, I am focusing a lot on digital integration and hybrid ministry. Nick Clason (06:00): And this podcast is a cathartic outlet for me to talk about what I'm doing. In a lot of episodes, I've told you, here's what I'm doing right now, here's how it's going, and here's the adjustments that I'm making. And while I would be doing those things internally in my head, forcing myself to sit down and explain it to an audience has just been so helpful. And so thank y'all for being along the ride with me. Like I, I've told you before, I always want this to be a place where I can just be open and honest. So that is a little bit of just kinda like the brief one year history of where we are. Um, and in, in an attempt to continue to look back just a little bit, I want to give you guys a couple of recap type stats. So let's dive into this. Nick Clason (06:44): All right. So to recap, um, back in December, December was our best downloaded month to date. But then January beat December and then February, beat January and then March, beat February. So they just kept kind of building on itself and then may came and may beat all of those. April took a little bit of a, uh, backseat, um, or I'm sorry, may took a little bit of a backseat to April. Um, April was still the highest. So it, it was like a stair-stepping in December, January, February, March, April, may took a little dip. And then now, uh, I'm recording this in June. Um, it will drop in July and so, um, July might be completely different, but June has far surpassed every month we've ever even had. So to those of y'all who are new, those of y'all who are downloading us on a regular basis, welcome, glad to have you, glad to see you. Nick Clason (07:35): It's exciting to be along on the journey. Um, glad to have you with us. The highest downloaded episode ever in the history of this podcast is episode 31. I'll drop a link to that in the show notes if you wanna go back and listen to it. But we are gonna do just a little bit of a recap of that here in this episode. The episode's titled, why Should Churches Even Care About Digital Ministry in 20, I think I probably recorded it in 2023 or 2022, I should say. So I probably said, why should churches care about digital ministry in 2022? Um, consequently, and I don't think that this has any correlation, but consequently, that was also our very first episode that we started posting full, um, video episodes on YouTube as well. So you can go check out my very first YouTube video if you wanna laugh and see how bad it is, I think, and hope we've gotten better. Nick Clason (08:23): But, um, you know, no promises. I'm not like a professional YouTube editor. Uh, I'm a youth pastor, so I'm doing this all in the margins, all in my spare time. And so, um, there could be more on the horizon, you know? Um, but right now it's just kinda, uh, slugging it out. That does not count. However, our very first episode on YouTube, which was the, have I already ruined my church's TikTok account. It's a video and podcast joint episode that I posted, uh, where we, we released the free ebook, um, with a link to that and the show notes. And so, um, that was literally walking through step-by-step nerding out on how to post a video on your cell phone using the TikTok TikTok app. Now, I will give a caveat and a disclaimer. I'll drop the episode link to that as well in the show notes, but I wanna let you know that I posted that in December. Nick Clason (09:12): And so just like any sort of tech things have changed. And so it may not even be a hundred percent relevant. The the overall premise is right, like a lot of TikTok is the same, but there are still some things that have shifted and even personally some strategy things on my end that have shifted as well. So think you all for being along on the journey. Those are, um, just some kind of recaps. This is our, like I said, our one year anniversary episode. But without any further ado, this is really what I want to get into is I wanna like bring everyone, y'all on the audience level back to the roots of why we do what we do and what this is what, where this all started from. So without any further ado, let's answer this question. What is hybrid ministry? Okay, what is high ministry? Nick Clason (10:06): So back in July last year when we launched podcasts, this idea had been rolling around in my brain for a couple months and, um, I was kicking around ideas of names. The name I settled on was hybrid. I also liked integration. Um, but, but hybrid was really like the one that I thought was really cool. Well, lo and behold, after I decided that name, Barna released an ebook about the future of the hybrid church. And so almost at the same time I launched a podcast or at least started recording bef before I had a few episodes kind of in the hopper before we ever went fully live. Um, and then Barna also released their ebook 40 or some, some, I can't remember. I'll drop the link to the Barna ebook in, in the show notes. It's behind a paywall, but it's worth it. It's a, it's a little over a year old now at this point, but I still go back to and pull a lot of data from it cuz what they're asking, coming out of the heels of C O V I D, they're asking what do millennials and Gen Z, what are they looking for in church? Nick Clason (11:10): Uh, another thing I've done in the last year is I went through a Gen Z Barna CoLab thing. Um, it was a six session zoom thing where they shared some findings about Gen Z, which they are the future generation of our church and our church ministry. And so it's important, I think to, to inspect what these generations are saying. And so, um, 9%, only 9% of churched Christians back when this, um, hybrid ebook dropped 9% of church Christians, um, wanted a solely digital church option. Okay? And so I think my question, and I remember I had Matt on here, was like, well, well then why are we even exploring this as digital ministry? Aren't we on the other side of covid? Shouldn't we go back to what we remember and how things were? The difference was one third of them expressed that some sort of, um, hybrid option would suit them well, and that was only in those that they pulled and that was only in those old enough to be pulled. Nick Clason (12:19): So 18 and older at the time. All right, meanwhile, millennials and Gen Z, if you take out just that kind of sub subset of of age demographic, take out some of the older church attenders that were also pulled in this ebook. Millennials and Gen Z are ju this is, this one was the one that got me and this is the one that like really thrust me into starting this podcast. Millennials and Gen Z are just as likely to choose a hybrid option as they are a physical option at 40% for millennials and 42% for Generation Z. So they are just as likely just as interested in a hybrid option as they are in a physical option. And I hear you on the other end, but wait, it's not the same. We all saw it in Covid and yes, that's true. And this was one of the conversations that me and Matt had way early on, and it's that this churches in Covid tried to replicate an in-person experience and a digital option. Nick Clason (13:16): And a physical option should be two uniquely different experiences. I hear you again, but wait, I don't have time to produce that and I get that it's challenging for sure. I'm on a student ministry staff of three, soon to be four. We're about to have a year long resident who I've worked with before. So we have a little bit of a history, know what he can bring to the table. All that to be said, I dedicate, I don't know, probably 75% or more of my job responsibilities to digital integration and hybrid ministry. There's more that I wish and want to be able to do, but I, I also don't have the time crunch. But what I say is on your staffing level and on your staffing side, it's really important to make sure that you give someone proper allocation of funds and time, ability to, uh, to go this direction because the, the younger that generations are, the more that this is going to be necessary. Nick Clason (14:14): And we're not trying to replace the physical. That's my whole point. That's where the word hybrid comes from. We're not trying to replace the physical, we're trying to integrate digital with physical, right? One of my favorite examples of it in our student ministry is we'll do these like two or three times a year. We'll do these, uh, brackets where we pit two things against each other and, and they vote and the winner goes on to the next round and they face off against the winner of another matchup. And so we'll come up with kind of these like arbitrary seatings or whatever. Um, I'll drop a couple links in the show notes cuz I've done a few of these and I've posted 'em on like download youth ministry, so you can grab it. We've got like world's greatest or um, uh, big game day bracket food challenge. Nick Clason (14:55): So you're picking like the food that you're gonna have at like your Super Bowl party. But that's a great example of a hybrid option because all of the voting takes place online on a website or, or in our case, a lot of times on Instagram, but in person it's also like playing it itself out. So this last year we did serial madness in March, and so we pitted serial matchups against each other. And so we had all the, the matchups up on a big, uh, window that we have with like a bracket taped out. And then we cut out the front of the serial boxes and po uh, pasted like a seed number on each of them. And then as they would win online, we'd move them into our space. So the students would walk in, they'd see the results, but then on Wednesday nights we have these garage door, uh, like bay type things. Nick Clason (15:42): And so we have eight different bays. And so that's eight different matchups for a round of 16. And the base came up and every individual matchup, uh, of cereal was in the base. So they could go in, they could grab the one seed versus 16 seed, put a little milk in it and eat it. That's an example of taking a digital expression, a digital like moment and means of something and bringing it in to make it hybrid with your in-person. Okay, back in the first episode, we talked about digital openness. And so I just wanna rattle off for you some of these, um, findings from, from the first book. So church adults defined as having high digital openness. Number one, they see the value of attending at least an online service. Number two, they think that churches should use digital resources for spiritual formation slash discipleship purposes. Nick Clason (16:33): Post pandemic, they think that churches, uh, should use digital resources for gathering their people to together after the pandemic. They say that either hybrids, so both digital and physical or primarily digital gatherings for church will best fit their lifestyle after the pandemic. And number five, they're open to attending new kinds of online gatherings that are unfamiliar. What are mold breaking? So these are people that are classified as digitally open. Furthermore, of these options, these were the options that they said would, um, suit them in a hybrid sort of format. So teaching and preaching one-on-one prayer, small groups, worship, prayer, visitation, confession, children's ministry, youth ministry, adult ministry. Those were, um, highest percentage down to lowest percentage in a cascading list. The thing that was the number one thing was teaching and preaching. So here's the thing, churches have gathered together to preach and hear the word, and that's, that's valuable and scriptural. Nick Clason (17:34): That being said, um, I, I can learn just as well. Um, whether I'm sitting my butt in a, a seat looking ahead, listening to a pastor as I can, listening to him on the podcast, what can't be reproduced, what can't be replicated in my own experience is praise and worship. Which again, I think that there may be a moment for, uh, figuring out how this works for the next generation in a non, uh, like physical environment. Not replacing it, but supplementing it. But the thing that can't be replaced for me is community one-on-one relationships, like authentic community with other believers. And some of those things can be done digitally. Zoom groups. We all saw that it leaves something to be desired. I agree if that's what you're saying to me on the other side of this camera. However, all that to be said, like the, the teaching pieces can be something that we can offer to people. Nick Clason (18:27): It's the number one, it was the number one rated thing for hybrid options, the delivery of content. CS Lewis has a quote that says, this says theology is all the more important today because there are so many messages being delivered to the home that you need to determine what is actually true. So you can go into one of these mediums and you can present the word, you can give theology, you can teach people theology in podcast form, YouTube videos, short form videos. Lewis made this quote in the 1950s and it rings all the more true today. That's the crazy thing, right? Is like what he said back in the fifties still brings true almost 80 years later. So because there's so many messages coming into the home, we need to help teach people what the Bible says. So I say all that to say, and I give you all of that as just a reminder that this is why this matters. Nick Clason (19:22): Hybrid ministry matters as an option for churches moving forward. And so, um, I just wanted to give a quick reminder. I just wanted to share it with y'all about, um, why we do what we do, where this whole thing comes from and what the purpose of it all is. Thanks for hanging out. Excited to have you with us. Don't forget link in the show notes. If you want to, uh, go follow us on YouTube. If you want to grab either of those freebies, uh, downloads, we're gonna be starting here in this next year. We're gonna be starting, um, getting our email newsletter going. And so subscribe in and grabbing the ebook or the, um, free transitions for Adobe Premiere Pro. Either one of those will lock you into our email newsletter. We're gonna start sending some stuff out occasionally. And so one, make sure that you don't miss that. Hey, if you subscribe to this, you will get this automatically downloaded into your podcast catcher every single Thursday morning at 4:00 AM So if you're in ministry and you have a Wednesday night deal, you wake up, you get to hear this the next morning after your ministry night. Hopefully it's just a, a positive encouraging, maybe even sometimes challenging refresher for you. Uh, so we would welcome that and love to have you join us in that way. But don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.
VIDEO: A Complete Crash Course on Editing in Adobe Premiere Pro a Teaching Video built for YouTube and In Room Programming from Start to Finish. In this episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, Nick Sits down and edits a Video from scratch, (well, almost scratch) in Adobe Premiere Pro. That being said, if you're listening on a Podcast, this might be a better experience to watch via YouTube! Watch the Video on our YouTube Channel: https://youtu.be/uZzatZ4KFyE Hang out on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick ShowNotes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/053 FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES FREE Animation Effects for Adobe Premiere Pro: https://share.hsforms.com/1VL1oWwWwQ82PLwsPFkPITgnumis TIMECODES 00:00-01:47 Intro 01:47-03:32 Getting Things Started in Adobe Photoshop 03:32-05:42 Locating Unlinked FIles 05:42-08:56 Back to Photoshop 08:56-11:41 Getting Going in Adobe Premiere Pro 11:41-14:23 Time to Edit in Adobe Premiere Pro 14:23-22:04 Adding Text to Adobe Premiere Pro 22:04-24:52 Adding Whoosh Sound Effects to Animated Text 24:52-25:34 Editing Jump Cuts 25:34-25:58 How to Cut Every Layer 25:58-26:10 Editing Jump Cuts 26:10-40:24 Adding a Turn-n-Talk Section 40:24-55:54 Rounding out the Video 55:54-56:40 Rending Your Video 56:40-57:18 Outro TRANSCRIPTS Nick Clason (00:00): Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. As always, I am your host, Nick Clason, pumped and jacked, and thrilled and excited to be with you. Hey, welcome. You're in my office. Um, and in this episode we're gonna be doing something quite a bit different. What I'm gonna be doing is I'm gonna be giving a tutorial, um, from start to finish on how I edit a, uh, one of our teaching videos. So I've told you before we do talking head teaching style videos. So I'm gonna show you what I do in Adobe per, uh, Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Premiere Pro. Um, and maybe After Effects, it just depends, probably not. Um, and so I want to give you kind of a run through tutorial Crash course on how I do what I do, um, as well as just let this be a training kind of video that lives in perpetuity, um, on Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Premiere Pro. Nick Clason (00:57): So let's go ahead and let's dive in and get this thing started. I'm gonna be sharing with you my screen. I'm also going to be sharing, uh, my video, um, just like of me talking. If you're listening to this. Um, it may get a little technical and it may be a little bit hard to follow. So just know that the entire episode is on YouTube with a video tutorial. And so you may listen to this, um, but go back to YouTube for actual like reference of it. So without any further ado, let's dive in. Hey, before, actually, before we dive in, why don't you go, uh, check out YouTube, check out TikTok, check out Instagram, um, and link in the show notes for transcripts as well as a link to my 100% completely free ebook, how to Make a TikTok from Start to Finish. Now, without any further ado, let's dive in. Rending Your Video Nick Clason (01:48): All right, so what you're seeing here is, um, an Adobe Pro, um, file that I just edited. Um, I'm gonna start from scratch. So, um, we are in, uh, start the party week three. Um, I already got this thing started a little bit and so I'm gonna take you into my started project. Um, but if I hadn't, um, this is my original footage, uh, not that this is my original footage and these are my original audio files. Uh, just dropped those in. Um, I had two audio files cause we were using two microphone sources to get it going. Um, I ran those together and then I just rendered it out as a singular one, which is this one right here. So, um, that's basically where we are. And I think the only other thing I did was make like cuts, um, which I'll show you how I do all that stuff anyway, so, um, let's make sure this gets saved in the right spot. So we're gonna save it. Shared drive FC students. This is just my folder structure and my shared folder structure. Um, messages are in social media messages. The year, the number of the series, this is week three. And so we're just gonna call this stp. So start the party three, underscore two Nick Clason (03:12): Oh man. And all this stuff got lost. I think this might be from an old file that was stuck in there. Um, I'm gonna link it anyway though. So it's in Google Drive, shared drive. It looks like most of that stuff was in camp. See if I can search it in here. File enough. Wait, I need to do, I need to do these, so I need to do, um, I need to go here. All right, now let's try it. Do those. So I need to go to Google Drive, share, drive, trips, camp. Okay, I found a bunch of 'em and then those are downloads. So those are gonna be gone and that's okay. I don't need those cuz those are other things. This one right here is in my, a local file that I use, like personal stuff and I've been moving things around cause I just lost a bunch of data. So it's in here. It's in here. This admin social, not that one. Nick Clason (04:45): Uh, Nick Clason (04:45): There we go. Search. Okay, there's that. And then this Hex C is in this shared drive of marketing. Where is it? Marketing? Um, branding. No, it's in marketing. Where's the marketing folder? Why is it gone? Starts with an M. Nick Clason (05:28): Hmm. Nick Clason (05:30): That's okay. I don't think I need it. So offline, offline, offline, offline. Okay. All right, there we go. Sorry, sorry, sorry for that. So here, yeah, so I got this thing started. Nick Clason (05:44): In this video we're gonna talk about how you can get invited to every single party ever. Nick Clason (05:53): All right. So, um, that's that. And then I'm gonna take you over here to Photoshop, which is where, uh, I'm gonna get some fo some things going. Um, these are, this is a template. So I've used this before for other videos, so I kind of build out the template. So let me show you what I've done in the past. So this is my, um, bible verse template. And then this is my like anything else template, um, that I've been using for this series. So if you hit, uh, command minus, that'll zoom you out in Photoshop. Um, command Plus will zoom you in those things. Um, just help you see the things a little bit better. Uh, if I'm over here on the left hand side, I'm using the selection tool. Um, so I can select certain layers that are already created. Um, so I'm selecting this, uh, font right here or yeah, this right here. Uh, but I don't have that font right now. So what I actually need to do is I actually need to go install it. I have them all backed up. I'm just, I just switched to like a new computer and so that's why like nothing is in here. Um, fonts. Okay, so I'm gonna open my font book and I'm just gonna drop over here off screen. All these Gotham fonts that I need. Nick Clason (07:19): I think Hope did that work? I don't know. Let's search. Nope. Oh, there we go. Uh, keep both. I think that should, Nick Clason (07:36): Yeah, there we go. Now it's in there. Okay, so you'll see right here. Now they're all in there. So back over here. We're just gonna cancel cuz now it should read it. Yep. So if I'm over here on the left, I can grab the entire font. Like if I pick the top selection tool here, I can grab the entire font, uh, block thing and move it all the way around. If I go down here to text, I can edit the text. Um, and so I'm gonna have different verses and stuff like that. If I go over here, I can edit that text, right? But if I wanna move the whole thing, I can move the whole thing. Um, so back over here in Adobe Premiere Pro, I got this, it goes straight, start in, Nick Clason (08:14): Find out. Nick Clason (08:15): It goes straight on into the title sequence there. So I'm gonna take you here. Nick Clason (08:27): Nope, nobody ever likes to be the person left out. Nick Clason (08:35): All right, so let's see what we got. Nick Clason (08:37): One time I moved away from a church that I used to work. Nick Clason (08:40): So all these photos are old photos that I drummed up from before. So let's see where this video has us right now. This single Nick Clason (08:48): Fall, we went to a camp called Camp Tesa in Brixton and me and we called the retreat the Recharge. Nick Clason (08:56): All right, so in Adobe Premiere Pro, if you click the space bar, that's your keyboard shortcut for play. Uh, you can move this around here in the sequence, um, to go to different spots, um, on your keyboard. If you look at the J K L and I, it's sort of in the shape of uh, arrows. And so J K L I J is back, K is down, I is up Ellis forward. One of my favorite hacks for that is once you get it playing, you can click L and it'll make it go quicker. You can hit J and it'll make it go backwards. You can also hit the arrow button to go frame by frame. So right, left. Nick Clason (09:43): So that's how I go real slow. So that being said, if I wanna do any sort of overlay videos, which I'm going to like you see right here, I did these photos, I overlaid them. I also have presets that have them come in. Um, I'll tell you what I'll do, I'll drop the link. Um, I'll drop the link, but I'm first gonna make a note to myself so that I don't forget to do it. Um, but I'm gonna drop the link to the presets, um, in the show notes. So that's not the right thing I need to do. Oh five three Adobe. Uh, there it is new. This is just so I don't forget about you guys. Um, presets. So in Adobe Premiere Pro there's little, uh, motion presets that you can use. I use one, I use one pack. There's like 50 of 'em. Nick Clason (10:32): They look like this position in position out. Rotate out, rotate in scale and scale out. I use those pretty much all the time. And I'll often pair those with like a, an audio. So if you see right here as this one comes in, it's got a little audio down here on this audio track. So you got audio track one, audio track two, audio track three. You got video track one, video track two video track three. And you can do an unlimited amount up, uh, in video and an unlimited amount down in audio. So as I play it, this church, I got that little whoosh sound coming in. I didn't do that for the rest of them cause I didn't want it to be distracting. Our would come. So they're just coming in one by one as I'm explaining this story. So Nick Clason (11:09): Before I Nick Clason (11:10): Moved and then here this cut, I hit, uh, I cut it with the razor tool over here. Um, also shortcut keyboard, shortcut C, we'll switch it to the razor tool and then v we'll switch it back to this selection tool. Um, and so then once I click v I just drag the, the thing I wanna do position out, just drag it onto there, do other things and then it rotates out. Or not rotate but moves out. So back to editing. Uh, now that you've gotten all that little quick overview, let's edit the fall. Nick Clason (11:41): We went to a camp called Camp Temsa in Brooks and Indiana. Nick Clason (11:45): We, I'm gonna speed it up a little bit called the Nick Clason (11:47): Retreat, the recharge retreat. That's awesome. And so I leave that church, I'm going to another one that same weekend, not in the same place. And because I followed both my old church and my buddy's church on Instagram, I see that they're both on a retreat. That's interesting. Both that church and church are both on a retreat together, but on the same weekend. That's interesting. Wait, in Brooks, Indiana, hold on a minute. They're together. When I began to notice was that these two churches came together instead of calling it recharge retreat, they called it a lifeline retreat, something like that. I dunno, but I felt so left out there. I was sitting at home thinking that used to be me. I used to be the one there and now I'm home with my kids, with my new church man if I aren't there. And I felt incredibly about that. When it comes to a part, often feel like very cut and dry, very binary, right? Like there are insiders. Nick Clason (12:30): All right, I'm gonna cut that. I don't like what I said there. So I'm gonna see if I can cut around that Nick Clason (12:35): Often feel like very cut and dry to a party. Nick Clason (12:40): So I don't need that much space there. So when it comes to a party, so I hit C to cut it V to select it, and I'm just gonna hit the backspace button and now it's gone. I'm gonna drag this in so it's next to it Nick Clason (12:52): Like very cut. And often feel like Nick Clason (12:59): When it comes to a party can often feel like Nick Clason (13:03): Very cut and dry, very binary. Nick Clason (13:07): Let's see if I can get all that out of there. So I'm just gonna drag this over. So C to V, let's see how it plays Nick Clason (13:13): Often feel like, right, like there are insiders, Nick Clason (13:17): I'm just gonna do feels like there's insiders. So drag, drag, drag Nick Clason (13:21): Parts often feel like insiders and there are outsiders. Nick Clason (13:26): So like Nick Clason (13:27): Inside Nick Clason (13:28): I need to get this to zoom in. So what I'm doing, one of my cuts, I zoom in, zoom out, zoom in, zoom out. So if you see that, if you're watching on YouTube, this right here, um, I click on it up up here in the effects controls under motion. Um, I have my position and it's scaled at 1 28. So when I'm here, this is at one 10. So this cut here needs to go to 1 28. Just type that in, hit enter. And now I have those cuts Nick Clason (13:55): Insiders. And there are, Nick Clason (13:58): And that just took care of that cut right there. Now because I did all that, I got all this stuff back here that is cropped out, so I need to connect it. There you go. It's connected Nick Clason (14:14): Today. One of Jesus' friends, a guy named Matthew recorded this story out of the life of Jesus. Here's what it says. Nick Clason (14:23): All right, so now I'm gonna do a Bible verse. So I have this stored somewhere. I think it's in curriculum, Nick Clason (14:36): Yeah, for me. Uh, is that Darren's? That might be Darren's. I just need to figure out the verse reference. I'm gonna figure out the verse reference. I'm gonna go put it into Photoshop. So thank you. I got a new computer. So everything's brand new. Yeah, that's Darren. So I need to figure out mine. I think mine actually might be my own personal Google drive. So I'm gonna search start. Yeah, it's there. So start the party three there. It's um, Matthew nine 10 in the nlt. So I'm gonna go to bible gateway.com. I'm gonna switch it to nlt so that what I say version wise matches what is on screen. And now as I go back over here, one of Nick Clason (15:21): Jesus's friends, a guy named Matthew, recorded this story out of the life of Jesus. And here's what it says. It says later, Matthew invited Nick Clason (15:31): Jesus. Okay, so I'm gonna go here into Photoshop, click my text tool, uh, command a, highlights that all, command v paste it. I wanna make it, um, all caps like I had before. We're gonna keep it uniform as best I can remember. Um, I just changed it down to a hundred. Um, and then I'm in Matthew nine 10. So now I'm gonna hit command shift save. Um, and that saves the full Photoshop file. So then I'm here in my, uh, you know, social media messages 20 23, 0 6, 0 3. So in the oh three folder, this is message number three, I'm gonna click new folder, p s d. Um, and then I'm gonna save it as oh oh one verse so that I know that, um, file oh oh one is a verse save. So now it's saved as a Photoshop file. So this is why I like Adobe Premier Pro, um, because of its integration with Photoshop. Nick Clason (16:33): So back over here in my actual finder, I'm gonna navigate to the folder. I just saved that to p s d oh oh one verse. I'm gonna drag the entire file here into the project bin on this left hand side. Drop it in. And I have three, four options. I can merge all layers, merge layers, individual layers or sequence. I'm gonna do individual layers. Um, and now it'll drop this folder. And now I got every individual layer that I had in Photoshop. Now I'm not gonna use all of them, but I am gonna animate them. And I wanna show you what I did in previous videos. So if you go back to the first video in this series, um, it's gonna take a second to come in from uh, Google Drive downloading. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna look at what I did a for myself to remember how I animated everything, um, so that I can be consistent all the way across all these videos. Nick Clason (17:31): Um, I don't, you don't have to do that. I like to do that for every series. I like to have like the same animations, um, so that it has like uniform, same backing track, which um, out here I found this file, um, on motion array, uh, as song for the background. So I have this right here. This, uh, audio layer is my tech, my my speaking audio layer. This layer down here is my, uh, audio, um, backing track, all music. So anyway, um, oh you know what? This might not open in QuickTime because of yeah, cuz I'm already using QuickTime. You know what, it's on YouTube so let's go check it out. So we're gonna go to YouTube, um, cross Creeks, dude. And let's see videos. Here it is. Nick Clason (18:39): People seem so full of life and others seem, oh, celebrate the value of others. And Nick Clason (18:49): So as I scroll through here, I'm just scrubbing through to find the text. Here it is. So if you'll notice I made a cut and the verse, Nick Clason (19:06): Cause he said it in his own words, the Nick Clason (19:09): Thief. So the verse in this little banner thing with the hello summer, it's all already there. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to this Roberto Nixon. That's the, that's the background. Nick Clason (19:22): But let's, let's see. Remind myself what I did over here. I had rectangle two as like a backdrop to make it blacker. So go to rectangle two. So put those together. So right, this is uh, as the layers build up, bottom, top. Um, so there's my two backgrounds. If I just hold the mouse down, highlight them both, then I can move them both longer in the sequence. Um, so there's the background. Uh, let's see. This right here is titled rectangle one. So I'm gonna go back over here and grab a rectangle one, put it right there in line with it and drag it there to go the whole distance. Then I'm gonna get my verse reference Matthew nine 10, put it there. And then I'm missing that little hello summer icon that I made. So I'm gonna click on that and it's called Hello Color Official Colors. So go to Hello Color, pull that right here and boom. And it's covering up Matthew. So I'm just going to change the order there. Pull Hello, color, make Hello Color, be below Matthew. So there, okay, so now all my things are in. So right here on this today Nick Clason (20:48): One of Jesus's friends, a guy named Matthew. Nick Clason (20:52): Now I don't say it yet. So what I did was I held down shift and clicked them all to highlight them. I'm just gonna move it, what Nick Clason (20:59): Of this story out of the life of Jesus. And here's what it says. Nick Clason (21:03): So when I say, here's what it, I'm gonna go right here, where, here's what it says. So I hit c I got my razor tool, I cut the thing there, now I'm hitting V to go back to my selection tool and I'm just gonna highlight all these layers, bring 'em back over. So now it's there. So then I need to bring in the actual text, which I believe starts with later Matthew. So I'm gonna listen to it and line it up when it comes in. So Nick Clason (21:27): Here's what it says Nick Clason (21:29): Right there later, Matthew, boom, I'm gonna have that, um, position in, lemme go back and see what I did over here. Nick Clason (21:40): Let see, Nick Clason (21:41): It looks like it was a smooth transition and I just know that thief. Yeah, I just know that from experience of what these different ones look like. So I'm going over here position in smooth left. Okay, that came from a file. The sound came from a file over here under social media. Nope, nope, it came under my drive. Uh, social, this is my old church, Parkview. See if it's gonna, there it is. Sound effects. Uh, I've been transferring a lot of data, so it may not be all in here. Let's see if I can go, let's see if it's in actual Google Drive. So I'm gonna switch to my work profile, shared drive notes. It's in my drive. Passport, Nick Clason (22:49): Social. Nick Clason (22:56): It's called sfx. There it is. I'm gonna download that sucker. Um, so now it's in my downloads folder. I'm gonna take it out of there and I'm gonna bring it here so that's all in the same spot. And then I'm gonna make sure as I go into Adobe Premiere Pro, I'm gonna pull it from that same folder so that when it tries to open it later, it, it knows where it was. So I drop it in my thing. And now if I double tap on this sound, it's gonna pull it up here in this source tab up here at the top. Okay, so there's all these different, um, sounds ready. Like, so I'm just gonna find one that, like, that one sounds kinda weird. Nick Clason (23:50): That one's good. So I'm gonna take this, uh, bar down here and I'm gonna shrink it so that I can get a closer view of it. So if I hit I that starts, that stands for N and then if I toggle the bar right here, right past it and click o, then I can choose to grab either the video or the audio. I don't have a video so it's only audio. So I'm gonna drag the audio in here and I'm gonna line it up. And then what I like to do, again, I'm gonna drag this little bar so I can zoom in a little bit. I like to get it right, you see where it's just barely on the screen. I like to, I like to match my audio up there. So now this Nick Clason (24:26): Is later Nick Clason (24:28): Also, I'm gonna right click on this audio or control click or whatever. Two, two fingers click maybe. Um, and I'm gonna adjust the audio gain by 10. So it's a little louder. So let's see how it sounds. It says Nick Clason (24:43): Later, Nick Clason (24:44): Yeah, I'm also gonna drag this cuz it looks like it still needs a little more space to breathe later. Yeah. Okay, so that's Nick Clason (24:54): What it says. It says later, Matthew invited Jesus and his disciples to his home. Nick Clason (25:02): So this one right here, I'm clicking on this back over here into effects controls. That's at 1 28. So when this comes out, I'm gonna, when I'm done with the verse, I'm gonna cut it and I'm gonna cut it down to one 10. Remember I was talking back and forth between 1 28 and one 10. So Nick Clason (25:16): This reputable sinners that comes outta Matthew chapter nine verse 10. Nick Clason (25:22): So as I say that, I'm gonna cut right here. And then if I hit C for cut and if you hold down shift, it will cut everything in that uh, up above and and down below. So I'm gonna hit shift it, cut all my layers and I'm gonna go back to v the selection tool. I'm just gonna select them all. So now they're all gone. I clicked back on the actual video, I need to make that one 10. That was my transition. So 10 Nick Clason (25:54): Your tax collector Nick Clason (25:55): Back in and now we're rolling with guests be Nick Clason (25:57): Some of the most corrupt and frustrating people in the world. These aren't the kinda of people that anyone thought Jesus would be like sitting down sharing meal with. So here's what I wanna know. Nick Clason (26:10): So I want to comment. Um, we're gonna be playing this in our live room and I'm also gonna post it on YouTube. So I'm gonna put this comment below thing, right where I call for it. Nick Clason (26:18): Comment below or Nick Clason (26:22): So that was one 10. I just noticed this is one 10. This video here needs to be 1 28. Nick Clason (26:29): One thought Jesus would be like sitting down, sharing a meal with. So here's what I wanna know. Nick Clason (26:36): So I'm gonna cut here cuz I have it, I had it cascading before, but I'm making some adjustments so I need to make sure that I don't get myself outta order. I'm just gonna have to like 1 28, 1 10 all the way through and change it. So if I switch back to, if I do a one 10, I switch back to 1 20, 28. Then down the road where I have a one 10, it's gonna stay in my order. Come Nick Clason (26:58): In below. Or if you're watching this live in the room, uh, at the table around you, I want to ask you this question. Does it surprise you to know that Jesus shared a meal with people that are considered out? Nick Clason (27:11): Um, so I'm gonna put this question on the screen. Um, I'm gonna look back. I saw that I had another question on the screen thing. So this is Darren. Let's see how I got that question in there. Nick Clason (27:23): Question is just about following a set of rules. Talking about it like a party is Nick Clason (27:27): Sometimes. All right, so that is, uh, I know that just again from memory, I know that's babe new. So what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna do file new, um, pixels is 1920 by 10 80. Resolution is 72 create. All right, I'm gonna command minus out. I'm gonna put a text in there. And then the question is, does it surprise you to know that Jesus spent time with these types of, of people or something like that? Command A highlights it all. I'm gonna change it to babe. New, um, babe, new bold. Um, color's gonna be white. I'm gonna right click on layer one, which is the text layer. I haven't, I must not change my settings yet. So I'm gonna go down to drop shadow and I wanna make it a black drop shadow. Give it a little angle here. So like, I usually like to go to the left at an angle. It's just personal preference. You can do whatever you want. Changing my size. If you see on, on the YouTube screen, I'm changing my size down, I'm changing my spread down. I like it a little bit more. Um, yeah, I'm gonna put my distance more right behind it. Nick Clason (28:46): There we go. Um, again, I'm just kind of doing that by eye and feel. But the more like black it goes in the background that I think the better it looks when it comes in. I'm going to highlight it. I'm gonna make it center aligned. I'm gonna drag this up to right underneath it. And then that way as I pull it down, you'll see right there I got those lines that are giving me, it's telling me's right in the middle, um, left and right and up and down. Okay, I got those lines telling me that I'm gonna delete this background here and then I'm gonna click command option shift w um, or file. That's the shortcut for file export. Export as. So command shift w I'm gonna switch it from JPEG to png. PNG gives it the transparent background. I'm gonna hit export and then I'm gonna go save it in that same folder. So share drive FC students social media messages. 2023. Um, start the party number three, I'm gonna put it in this PSD folder, but I'm gonna make a p and g folder, um, to not get 'em confused, I'm gonna take label it oh oh one question. Boom, put it in there and then back over here and premiere. I'm gonna do Pete, go into it. Uh, nope, wrong one, three psd uh, P and G question. I'm gonna drop it into my thing. I'm gonna drag it over here. So here's the question. Nick Clason (30:12): Come in below or if you're watching this live in the room, uh, at the table around you, I want to ask you this question. Nick Clason (30:19): Here's a question. So it's gonna come in, I'm gonna do positioning left and I'm gonna go down here and get that same sound effect. So it's uh, oh two five sfx. If you lose it in your bin there, you got this little search thing. So I just know the name of it is sfx. I click on it. I already got these bars from my in my out. I go my audio here, I drag it here and I'm just gonna make sure that that's all loaded up. I want it. Oh, I want it there. I'm gonna right click that. I'm gonna make that 10 again. Audio gain 10. Another way to do that if I want just the exact same one is I can go back over here to this one and if I hit option while it's highlighted and drag it, it should just duplicate that for me. I don't need that though, so I'm gonna delete it all. So back to my question Nick Clason (31:12): Table around you. I want to ask you this question. Does it surprise you to know that Jesus shared a meal with people that are considered O Nick Clason (31:22): All right, so I'm gonna rephrase that question so it matches. So does it surprise you to know that Jesus, um, how did I say it? Jesus shared a meal with people who are considered out. I'm going to get rid of the rest of that. All right, so now I'm gonna save it again. Again, this is one of my favorite features. I'm just gonna save it as replace and it should just change it. Look, it just changed it on my screen there. So because I updated it there in Photoshop and changed the file name, advise you to know Nick Clason (32:03): That Jesus shared a meal with people that are considered out in their ancient society. Why or why not? Take a minute. Nick Clason (32:12): So now that I have this, I'm actually gonna put a little countdown timer on the screen. So, um, in one of my folders here, I have a countdown timer. It's right here. It's called five Minutes Full Flat one. I just know the name of it. It's got an alpha channel on it. So it's right there. I'm going to, um, I only need the end of it cuz I'm not gonna do a full five minutes, right? So I hit C cut the rest of that and I'm gonna drag that over here. Um, I'm gonna pull a drop shadow on it. So I'm just gonna search in the effects here for Drop shadow, give it some definition. Didn't do much. I'm gonna go over here to effects controls. I'm gonna find drop shadow. I'm gonna move the opacity of the drop shadow from 50 to a hundred. I'm gonna change the distance. There we go. Now it's got some, some like at 40 back to effect controls. I'm gonna make it smaller. So I'm gonna hover over this 100 here for scale and just take it left and go down. And then I'm gonna go up here to this position. I'm just gonna drag it down right there. So now as I cue up the question, I'm gonna first find the end. This is where I end it, right here at this cut. So I'm gonna hit see. Nick Clason (33:28): So at the time of Jesus, there's a, so now what I'm gonna do is I am going to, this is the end. Okay? So when I queue up the question, why or why not? Nick Clason (33:41): Take a minute, Nick Clason (33:43): Uh, sir, I'm gonna cut it. I wonder if that is like past the end of the video or something. Let me see. Or is that hidden? Like what's going on here? Why is it not shown? I wonder if it's not like fully rendered or something. Hold on, let me find it. All right, now that I delete it, let's see if I can find it again over here. It's right here. It just looks like it's like loading it in. So it looks like it's just gonna take a little, a little, a little minute, a little minute to think I throw, I'm gonna drop it back in. Drop shadow, took all that off. Bye. Messing with it. I'm gonna change the distance to 40. It might just all need to like think. So I'm gonna hit file save as s STP 32. I'm gonna override it. Save. And I am going to, um, take a little break. I'll be right back. All right, so that didn't do crap. So I'm gonna open that sucker back up. Let's see if I can get it all right. That did it. So I just saved it and then I closed it and I opened it back up. We're good to go. So that's the end of my clip right there. Actually, it's a little bit long. So I'm gonna get to the end of my clip right there. Nick Clason (37:13): I'm going to click on the timer. I'm gonna make it a little smaller. I'm gonna pull it down and then I'm probably gonna animate its entrance. So Nick Clason (37:23): Surprise you to know that Jesus shared a meal with people that are considered out in their ancient society. Why or why not? Take a minute. Nick Clason (37:34): So I'm gonna put it right here where it starts, but that's only 10 seconds. And so what I'm actually gonna do is I'm going to lengthen the time. So I'm gonna grab all these right here and I'm gonna move them. And I want to give it closer to like 30 seconds. This is just like as a youth pastor is what I want to do. So I'm gonna pull this all the way down. I'm gonna pull this all the way down and then back that puts me at like a minute. So I want it at like 30. So like around, yeah, like around there. So that's where I want it to. And so what I'm gonna do here is I'm gonna, I hit, uh, see for the razor tool, I'm going to right click on this and I'm going to change the speed. So I'm gonna go, I was right click. I'm gonna go to, oh, I'm gonna go to speed and duration right here. And I'm gonna make it just 0.1. So it's super duper slow. So that's the video behind me as this question is sitting on screen. So it doesn't matter honestly what's happening behind me. Nick Clason (38:56): And then when that gets down to zero there, that's the end of it. I'm gonna pull. So I'm gonna zoom out so I can see all this. I'm gonna pull all these back in. So it's right next to it. Boom. Actually it needs to go there. I can drag that one to close the gap. And then I just need to animate the entrance. So I'm just gonna do motion in positioning smooth bottom of my countdown timer. Now I'm coming back over here. So Nick Clason (39:50): At the time of Jesus, there's a group of religious leaders, they're called the Pharisees. And they had a real problem with this dinner that we seen Jesus at. So it says when the Pharisees sum, Nick Clason (40:01): All right, so I need the verse for what I'm about to say. This is my show notes so I don't forget what it is. This is my Nick Clason (40:13): All right, so Matthew nine 11. So it's in this same thing here. It's just literally one verse later. So we're gonna copy this. I don't want to get that little A right there from Bible gateway all. So I'm in this tab here in Photoshop. I'm gonna go back to this tab. Not that one, not that one. Where is it? There's my verse. All right, hit the text command A to highlight command, V to copy. And then if I hit highlight at all and hit command shift and then the like p the period sign or like the, it looks like a greater than symbol, I can increase the size, um, slowly. So I'm gonna do that. I am going to change that from uh, Matthew nine 10 to Matthew nine 11 command shift S for save. Uh, oh oh two verse right there. And I'm drag that whole file back in. So get back over to it. Drag it in Nick Clason (41:13): Individual layers. Boom. Now here's the good news, which is a super cool, fun hack. Um, oh, that needs to be all the way this, this. So I'm hitting shift to highlight all these, all of these bad boys. Um, I'm, I'm replicating, right? I'm using the exact same thing. So I don't have to import all those. I'm just gonna hit option and drag them over here. And now I have this identical thing. I don't have to redo that. So now, now all I need is to get Matthew nine 11 right there, the new verse. And then I just need to animate in the text. So back over here, Jesus, Nick Clason (41:51): There's a group of religious leaders, they're called the Pharisees. And they had a real problem with this dinner that we seen Jesus at. So it says when the fa Nick Clason (42:02): So we're gonna do it right there and then we're gonna bring in. But when, Nick Clason (42:06): So it says when the fair Nick Clason (42:08): Right there, I'm gonna drag that to the end position in left. And then I need that sfx sounder. Click on here. Get that, bring it here, zoom in. I'm just hitting arrow over. That's where I want my sound effect to start. Um, I need to make that up to 10. All right, here we go. Nick Clason (42:33): So it says, when the Pharisees saw this, the fact that Jesus was there with the, the sinners and the outcast. And so why does your teacher eat with such stomach? Ask Jesus' disciples this question. You see the fares, you Jesus' disciples this question. Nick Clason (42:50): I think that's where I'm gonna end it. So remember, uh, see shifty boom back to V I can erase all those. So this was at 1 28. It'll come back to here at one 10. Nick Clason (43:07): Good question. You see the Pharisees were purposefully keeping others on the outside. They were judging them and questioning Jesus and his friends for not keeping them on the outside. Nick Clason (43:20): That is too long of a gap. I don't like that. So I'm going to cut right here, drag this and then make this 1 28. So now one sec. Nick Clason (43:28): Check out what Jesus said in response to them. I love it. He says, Nick Clason (43:32): All right, so we're doing another verse. I'm gonna assume it's the next verse. Yeah, actually it's 12 and 13, so I'm gonna get both of those. Oh, 12 through 13, copy paste. No that not copy. I must not have hit copy command C paste command v, I'm gonna make it a little smaller. Remember, command shift less than sign. I want this little a bad boy out of there space there. I'm gonna make, give a little more space to breathe cuz it is small. However, lemme make sure I don't how I read it. Nick Clason (44:27): Healthy people. So let me ask you, go and learn the meaning of this scripture. I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices for I have come to call, not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are. Nick Clason (44:47): All right? So yeah, I did do the whole verse. So um, command shift s we're going to make it oh three verse back over here in premiere. I'm gonna clear that search so that I can find it. Verse three, we're making it individual layers. Boom. All right, so I need all of these backgrounds again option. So I'm gonna go here where it starts. Nick Clason (45:19): Check up. Oh Jesus. Nick Clason (45:21): So we're gonna make it right there. When I say check out, I just need Matthew nine. Oh did I not change it? Nope, I didn't change it. So I need to make it 12 through 13, just a little smaller. I'm gonna write it over. So now that same layer in Adobe Premiere Pro will be updated with the new text. So it's all that check out Nick Clason (45:51): What Jesus said in response to them. I love it. He says, Nick Clason (45:57): All right, so I need this verse, I need to put it right here, position in left. And then I need that sfx. Actually I'm not gonna get it that way. I'm gonna go here, highlight it option, drag it over. I make sure that I, whenever I do that, I always make sure sometimes it doesn't work but some. So I wanna make sure I didn't just move it but I actually copied it. So I wanna make sure they're both still there. They are. I'm gonna zoom in. I'm gonna get, when this starts coming in right there, that was already pretty close, but just a little over. Nick Clason (46:34): Healthy people don't need a doctor, sick people. So let me add, go and learn the meaning of this scripture. I want you to show mercy Nick Clason (46:44): Not so it's not long enough. So I'm gonna highlight all these and I'm gonna drag it. I Nick Clason (46:48): Offer sacrifices for, I have come to call, not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are S, Nick Clason (46:56): That's where I'm gonna end it. I'm gonna shift, remember C, to get the razor tool, shift V, delete 'em all. And that gives me this new cut on my video timeline as well. So if that was 1 28, this can be one 10 as a zoom back out. No Nick Clason (47:15): They are, that comes from 99, 12 and 13. Nick Clason (47:19): I don't need that. So I'm gonna v cut that. See then V. Nick Clason (47:24): See Jesus came to care for those who needed him and most he came to show grace and love and mercy to the sinners, the tax collectors and anyone else who has ever been cast out of a girl. So what Nick Clason (47:44): That was a big gap. Nick Clason (47:46): So what does it look like to show mercy in today's world? Well for starters it's letting people know that they belong. That they can have a seat at your table. Nick Clason (47:59): So I like that quote. So I am going to um, it's letting people know that they belong. That they have a seat at your table. Just to make sure I got that quote right. Let's hear it again. Nick Clason (48:18): Well for starters it's letting people know that they belong. That they can have a seat at your table. You know, when you think about your life, right? Like I want you, Nick Clason (48:31): So I'm gonna do command option shift. W because I'm exporting, I'm not saving, I'm gonna make it a p and g. I am not saving the source files of these. I probably should but I'm not cuz I could recreate them pretty fast. And so it's just saving me a step cuz I would save it as a psd, then I would save it as a p and g as well. And that's just two steps. I'm just trying to cut that down. So I'm gonna have that come in there and then I need to drag into this gap right here. I want it positioning in left. Nick Clason (49:01): You know, when you think about your love, right? Like I want Nick Clason (49:06): You actually it's over here. Nick Clason (49:09): Well for Nick Clason (49:14): I get smaller, I got a pretty big starters. It's love. Yeah, there it as well. So I'm gonna pull that sfx sounder option. Yep. Nick Clason (49:39): It's letting people know that they, they belong, that they can have a seat at your table. You know when you think, Nick Clason (49:53): You know, when you think about your life, right? Like I want you to be honest, you probably hang out with people that you're most comfortable with. Your table might look like a table full of athletes or your table might be a table full of kids in theaters or your table might be a table full. Just kids in your neighborhood that you hang out with. Here's my questions. Since your table is often very similar, what if rather than having everybody with the same label sitting at all of your seats of your table, what have you chose to mix it up a little bit? You have one with this label, one with that label one with this label one. What would that look like? Like think about it. What if you chose to invite people? Nick Clason (50:48): So I'm just gonna add this here cause I felt like it was going a while without anything on the screen. Um, and I like that question. So I'm gonna make that oh oh three question and let's see where I start talking about it. A table Nick Clason (51:04): Full of athletes or your table might be a table full of kids in theater or your table might be a table full of just kids in your neighborhood that you hang out with. Here's my question. Since your table is often very similar, Nick Clason (51:17): What right there, what? So I'm gonna do position in left. I'm gonna go get this sounder again. Bring it right here. See those little arrows that gives me the indication that's lined up with my text up there. So I'm gonna let it go soon back in. Very similar. Nick Clason (51:35): What if rather than having everybody with the same label sitting at all of your seats of your team, what if you chose to mix it up a little bit? We have one with it. Nick Clason (51:46): I might actually move it. So I'm gonna hit that and then shift so I can move both of them over. Nick Clason (51:53): What if you chose to mix it up a little bit? We have one with this label, one with that. Like what? Nick Clason (51:59): I'm going faster now. Hitting L Nick Clason (52:11): Entertainment, Nick Clason (52:13): Is that the same thing? Nick Clason (52:17): Invest in different kinds of shows or, or forms of, uh, entertainment. Nick Clason (52:23): Yeah, I said that wrong. Nick Clason (52:27): Economic factors, what would it look? Sitting at all of your seats of your table, what have you chose to mix it up a little bit. We have one with this label, one with that label one with this label one. What would that look like? Like think about it. What if you chose to invite people who come from significantly different socioeconomic factors? What would it look like if you chose to invite people who are into different shows or forms of entertainment? You know, like kids who are maybe into anime or, or the Bachelorette or the Kardashians. What if you ask someone who is a gamer because you typically despise gamers and, and you're an athlete. Or maybe what if you're a Christian and you tend to avoid people who believe differently than you? What if you invited someone with a different faith system? Remember this, A party starter knows that everyone is invited. So how do you get invited? Nick Clason (53:30): Just gotta alternate these for the zoom back and forth on my cuts. Nick Clason (53:35): Be like Jesus, be the person willing to invite somebody new. Nick Clason (53:42): No, I don't mind alternating these now because I only got few . I'm at the finish line. People Nick Clason (53:51): Ain't a person willing to invite somebody new. See, we want this church and cross students to get student ministry. We're at a safe place. You can show up and just as you are, find yourself surrounded by people who want to make sure and know that you are invited. So I want you to ask this question again and around a little bit. Your camera. One person that I want to make sure feels in we're invited to the party with me. Nick Clason (54:11): Okay? I'm gonna add that. Who is one person who you want who command option shift, w, p and G oh four. Question back over here. Go find it. Nick Clason (54:38): Who's one person? The Nick Clason (54:40): I I'm gonna put it right here. I'm gonna get the sounder, bring it over. Nick Clason (54:52): Who's one per Nick Clason (54:54): Animated position in left, Nick Clason (54:57): Who's Nick Clason (54:58): One person that I want to make sure feels in or invited to the party with me this week? Nick Clason (55:06): So I gotta extend that sound. Um, I also want it to uh, so it's called exponential fade. That's where it like fades out slowly. So I drag it there on the end. And then we also have a here in the messages admin folder, YouTube button. Um, I have a subscribe thing where I can uh, just highlight our YouTube channel and anyone who's watching to subscribe. So I'm gonna drop it in towards the end. I'm gonna make it a little smaller and put it in the center middle Nick Clason (55:46): Into the party with me this week. Nick Clason (55:54): And I'm gonna match up the ending audio to go with that. And then that very end, I just need it to, I don't mind if it just stays on there. And I'm gonna drag this here. Command shift SSTP 32, we're resaving it. And now if I go up to sequence and I hit Command M Nick Clason (56:15): Or I just make sure I have the sequence, the blue box around it, this tripped me up one time. So bad file Export media. We're gonna change the location, so we're gonna put it in this folder here. New folder. Zero zero. Final start the party. Week three, save. Export entire source. There we go. Hey, listen, hope you found this episode helpful. I know it's deep, it's nitty, it's gritty. I'm hoping that can be a tutorial for you if you've never used Adobe Premiere Pro. This is just watching me edit a video. If you found it helpful, leave a rating review, like subscribe and hey, jump on, grab our free ebook so that you can also learn how to edit on your TikTok. Until next time, peace out. We'll talk to y'all later. Don't forget, stay hybrid.
What the NBA can teach us about Generation Alpha and the Future for Churches. Coach Tibbs, from the New York Knicks is widely considered the least favorable coach to play for, amongst NBA Players. Why is that? And what can we learn from his style? And how do the idea of "Player Coaches" change how we view interacting with Generation Alpha moving forward? Watch the Video on our YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g Hang out on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick ShowNotes & Transcripts: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/053 FREE E-Book: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES NBA Article: https://sportsnaut.com/tom-thibodeau-coach-players-least-like-to-play-for/amp/ 6 Things We can Learn: https://joinhandshake.com/blog/employers/6-things-gen-z-wants-from-their-job/ Gen Z Coping Mechanisms: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ra73jZJKw-dxIXxkZZfY-9RF5V0TH4RF/view?usp=sharing Honesty as a Faith Value: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WaZbfMyIZUCUPYIx4joBkMvC2-hoJ-Ez/view?usp=sharing Justice Motivated Generation: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wYwsRP3-p5_gExKS0g3L6UDOFhL4H149/view?usp=sharing TIMECODES 00:00-03:07 Intro 03:07-10:33 Nobody Wants to Play for Tom Thibodeau, why? 10:33-20:26 6 Things we can learn from the Next Generation 20:26-28:25 3 Learnings for us as the Church 28:25- Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. My name is Nick Clason, sipping coffee with you on this beautiful Monday morning. Nick Clason (00:17): And if you're just listening to this, you're missing out cuz you didn't get to see me drink out of my beautiful Ohio mug, which I would, uh, widely consider to be my home state. Anyway, in this episode, I am excited to, uh, talk to you about a, a really weird kind of topic a little bit, uh, but I'm gonna talk to you about my learnings from NBA head coaches and the shift that is happening with the next generation. And so what I mean by that is we are going to dive in a little bit. There was a recent study that came out, um, from the Athletic, uh, I'm a big basketball fan, you guys probably know that about me. Um, there's a big study that came out about the worst coach, the, the coach that the players would least want to play for. And that was fascinating to me because what that signified was that is that coach was a very old school coach. Nick Clason (01:09): What that signified to me was that this means that there is a shifting in the way that people are, are having things be done, and there's a shifting in the way that people want things, frankly, to be done. And so because of that, uh, I wanted to inspect that just a little bit. It's like, what is going on there? So that's what we're gonna be diving into and talking about. But before we do, I just wanna remind you that you can follow me over on YouTube. We have a full YouTube channel with I post daily shorts as well as a weekly podcast, full length video. Um, it's complete with overlays and statistics. And more and more we're diving into statistics and things like that. And so if you hear something of, what was that again, it will more than likely be over on YouTube. Uh, and on that section of the video also, it could, um, if it's not there, it definitely will be over at Hybrid Ministry xyz. Nick Clason (02:01): And for this episode, it's slash 0 5 0 because we are on episode. Can you believe it? Episode 50. Crazy. I know. Um, also wanna remind you that if you would be so kind, we would love a rating, um, or a review, just sign into your Apple Podcast app. If you've been listening for any length of time, it would mean the world to us to have a little review, to hear from the people, uh, about what's helpful, what's beneficial, um, and what you like about this show. Um, and as a token of our appreciation, we will give you our 100% completely free ebook on how to know if you've even ruined your church's TikTok account. By the way, your church probably should be on TikTok. And so if you're not yet, head to the link in the show notes and grab your 100% completely free ebook unknowing if you have ruined your church's TikTok account. Nick Clason (02:56): But without any further ado, let's dive into what I have learned from NBA head coaches about the upcoming shifting and new generation that's upon us. So what have we learned from the NBA and their head coaches? Like I said, big basketball fan basketball nut over here. And so there was a recent survey done. It was a player survey. They surveyed, um, as many players as they could, I think something like 500 players. Um, and they asked was the coach that you would mo least like to play for and the overwhelming winner. And in that response was, um, Tom Tebeau of the New York Knicks. And so if you're not a basketball person, lemme try to paint the picture for Tibs. He's sort of this rough and tumble like old school kind of player. Um, uh, a good example of this, like a reason why is there is a guy drafted a couple years ago. Nick Clason (03:50): I'm a I'm, I'm personally have an affinity for him because he's from the University of Dayton, which again, I would, I would widely consider Dayton, Ohio, Cincinnati, Ohio, that sort of like southwest Ohio region, my hometown. I lived there for, uh, more than half of my life, my wife born and raised there. And so that also helped kind of tie my roots back to there. Anyway, Obi Toppin was a player who played for the University of Dayton. He was drafted to the New York Knicks and Tom Tido or, uh, nicknamed Tibs doesn't play rookies. Like he just doesn't. And so what's funny is Tido had really big and good success, uh, over in Chicago. Uh, you might remember Derek Rose, he was an mvp. Uh, rose played for tdo. Well, a couple years back when they drafted Obie Toin, he had Rose who's like the ghost of himself cuz he's had like multiple knee surgeries. Nick Clason (04:40): Uh, and Taj Gibson, who's like just this older mid thirties player and those guys are getting all of the playing time. Tdo often plays his players, uh, upwards of 40 something minutes and there's only 48 minutes available in a basketball game. And so he really just like locks in on his, the players that he likes and drives them hard into the ground and they just play a lot. Now you might be thinking like if you want playing time, isn't tid the guy? And yeah, that may be the case, but in recent years, N B A players have taken on more of a, uh, slower approach and a little bit more of like a self-care type approach. Kawhi Leonard has made this famous, he, uh, was traded away from the Spurs because he, he wasn't recovering fast enough because he needed more time to help heal his body. Nick Clason (05:29): In fact, Kawhi Leonard, uh, does these things where he, uh, and it is made famous by him, but now a lot of players do it. It's called load management. And so if there's like a back to back game where like they play one night and they also play the next night, he won't play the next night, um, just to preserve and take care of his body to make sure that one, he's fresh for himself, but two, that he's fresh for the playoffs. See, with Tom Tipo, almost all that stuff is out the door. And in the, in the nineties the nba, there was sort of this mentality, this like bad boys' mentality. Like you, you gotta like get in there, be rough and tumble. Uh, they, they refereed the game very differently. You could be a lot more aggressive and dramatic with your contact and the way that you played. Nick Clason (06:14): And I just, I say all that to say is that Tom Thibodaux will be a great coach, I think in that era, the Bad Boys era of 1990s basketball with the Detroit Piston and Joe Dumars and Isaiah Thomas and Bill Lamb beer and Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls. But it's 2023 now and the game has changed and it's a much more fluid offensive game. I mean, if you're, again, if you're a basketball person, hang with me if you're not. Cuz we're gonna get to some of the implications of this cuz this is the only like real basketball section right here. But like the, the New Age Warriors, they have completely changed the game. And they don't even run with a traditional center like Draymond Green, who's only like six foot eight, six foot nine. Draymond Green is running their, uh, center position, their tallest player on the floor, and they have five guys out who can all shoot. Nick Clason (07:00): You got like Clay Thompson and Steph Curry and Andrew Wiggins and Jordan Poole and all these guys with Draymond in the middle, the only guy who really can't shoot, but he's short and he's helping facilitate and kicking the ball all to all these places and it's much more fluid. And what's interesting is that you got their coach, Steve Kerr, who came in and completely reinvented and, and brought the game to the way that the players wanted it to be. Now if you're sitting here listening and you're a church leader, you're a pastor or you're a business owner, you're thinking, well that generation, like they need this next generation. They need to chill out. They need to stop being so, uh, soft and needing things their way. And here's the the thing I would just say to you like, yes, maybe that is true if they come to work for you and your business, but what do we see? Nick Clason (07:47): What, like look around post covid, look at every like donut shop, every drive through every burger place. Like people are not coming back to work. Why? It's not because they don't want to. It's not actually, it probably is because they don't want to, right? But it's not cuz they don't wanna work, they just don't wanna work there. They don't wanna work for you. They want to work for themselves and make money. I recently heard a podcast of this, a 19 year old kid who's out on TikTok making millions and billions of dollars and thousands and thousands of followers, and he will probably never go flip a burger over at Burger King. And so while we can be like those kids, they need to learn this, this, and this, they're not learning that in a traditional workplace. They're out there hacking it for themselves. And so here's the thing, if you are a church leader specifically, or a business owner, you have this generation who's out here kind of paving their own way, hacking it for themselves. Nick Clason (08:48): If you want that generation a part of your organization, you can't be like the nba, uh, or you can't be like Tom Tito of the nba where you just keep doing it your own way because that's the way you've always done it, right? In fact, you need to shift your thinking to start figuring out how you can accommodate that generation. Not because the church is about serving and self, self-serving and and selfishness and all, not, it's not about those things, I get it. But if you are a follower of Jesus, you have a mandate to reach every generation with the message and the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that includes generation Z. And by the way, soon to be generation alpha, who is already starting to graduate into our youth ministry next Sunday, we promote our fifth graders into our sixth grade and fifth grade is not considered Generation Z. Nick Clason (09:42): They're considered generation alpha. So what that means is our, our current youth ministry and current college and young adult ministry that is Gen Z. So pastor, if you're still trying to figure out how to reach millennials, I'm a millennial. I'm mid thirties. Like they're already the majority of our workforce. They are our current parents of younger kids. You need to start figuring out if you wanna reach younger generations. It has shifted. And Gen Z has a very different mindset than a millennial. It can be similar in some ways, but it is different. And so what can we learn? What has the NBA shown us? So I, I came across an article about six things that Generation Z is looking for in their next workplace. So let's power through those different six things and take a look at what we can learn from them. Nick Clason (10:34): All right? So this is article, it's from Handshake blog. I'll throw the link in the show notes. I thought it was interesting. I'm gonna give them the credit for all of this cuz they did all the work on it. But I just wanted to provide a little bit of commentary cuz we're not a workplace like employment podcast, we're a ministry podcast. So I, I would say if you're a pastor or church leader listening to this, there are two ways to kind of think about this way. Number one is think about this from the generations of people that are a part of your ministry. But way number two is think about this from the people that you employ at your church. If you want to grow younger and have younger people, younger congregation and younger staff specifically, and particularly younger staff, I want to encourage you to think about it this way. Nick Clason (11:18): So number one, generations Z is looking for compensation that affords work life balance. 70% of Gen Z survey respondents say that pay and or compensation is the most important factor again, right? Let's look back to our NBA analogy. Kawhi Leonard doesn't wanna play all 82 regular season games. He wants to play in the playoffs. No, granted, he doesn't even play in the playoffs anymore. If you're not a basketball person, you don't get that reference, but that's another conversation for another day. But the reality is Gen Z is looking for a better work-life balance. They've looked at their older millennials, gen X parents, grandparents, whoever working in the workforce, and they don't wanna work that 40 hour a week grind. If you spend any amount of time on social media or TikTok, you see people saying like, make six figures in like five hours a day of work. Nick Clason (12:09): Like that is the major hook out there because that's what people want. Is it realistic? I don't know. I think a lot of those things probably require a lot of work and at least a lot of like hustle on the front end. But the reality is they're looking for something that will help serve them to live a more full life. Not because they're lazy, not because they don't wanna work, but because they realize that it's not all about work. The other thing, the second thing is that they want clarity into career paths and internal mobility options. 71% of respondents expect to be promoted between six months to a year and a half. 64% attend career events to ensure that there are growth and development opportunities. What does this mean for a church? Well first of all, if you're employing them at a church, they wanna look around and see if there's ways to move up. Nick Clason (12:56): What do most churches do? Most churches don't have ways to move up. In fact, one of the times I left one of my jobs is I was, me and the senior pastor, we were the only two full-time pastors on staff. And I looked around and I said, there is no way that I'll ever get a chance to move up here. Like it. We have to hire like an adult discipleship pastor. We'll have to hire, um, an executive pastor. We'll have to hire, um, a college ministry, uh, pastor or associate. Like, I will not get a chance to move up until we make several other hires. And, and at the trajectory at that point, I had been working there for five years. I was like, that is not going to happen anytime soon. And the same, I would say is gonna be true of generation Z in working for your church, but also attending your church. Nick Clason (13:43): How, where can they insert themselves into leadership? If leadership is only reserved for old people, old, like of a certain ethnicity, people maybe like look around at your leadership board. What is the youngest elder that you have? The, there's a stat out there. I don't know where it's from so I can't credit it, but, um, I think it might be from like some church growth type stuff. They say that a church congregation generally is within 10 years on either side of the senior pastor's age. So if you have a 55 year old senior pastor, you are most well-positioned to reach 45 to 65 year olds. Think about that. Now, how are you gonna reach a 25 year old? Well, that's a youth pastor's job. Not really. A youth pastor's job is to help serve the kids of the 45 to 65 year olds that are being brought to the church in most cases. Nick Clason (14:37): And that's, you know, 11 to 18 year olds, not 25 year olds. Well, we'll make him be in charge of college ministry too. A that's a gigantic job. I'll tell you that as a youth pastor. But b uh, oftentimes I heard this analogy one time. Um, my, my, a friend of mine, he worked for GE and he said that GE used to be in the dishwasher business and they gave cheap, crappy dishwashers to, uh, apartment complexes. Like they struck a deal and they just, they, they served the majority of apartment complexes and they were GE dishwashers and they sucked. He said, and he said they always broke. And he said because of that, because most people would start out in their first apartment with a crappy GE dishwasher, they all had a bad taste of GE because all their dishwashers broke. And he said, is that what's going on in college ministry? Nick Clason (15:27): They get the bottom of the barrel, the lowest rung they don't often get, um, like their own minister or like paid full-time staff person or anything like that. And if they do get a paid person, it's like a very, very part-time person who's basically a glorified small group leader. Is that why young people are leaving the church in droves because they're getting the lowest wrong bottom of the barrel? And why do they get that? Probably because they're the least, uh, generous in contributions in giving. And so, I hate to say this, but if churches are looking like an ROI thing, like the lowest ROI from like financial gifts is coming from the young adult ministry. That being said, they're the future of your church. So if you don't find a way to invest in them, they're not gonna be there in the years to come when the 45 to 65 to 75 to 85 year olds are no longer living in your church and, and giving in your church. Nick Clason (16:18): So how are you gonna reach and help pro promote and provide inroads for that generation to promote up into leadership? The third thing is they're looking for a modernized approach to benefits with an emphasis on flexibility and mental health. This goes with what we've been talking about a little bit before. 73% of survey respondents said that benefits is the number one reason why they would stick with an employer. Healthcare is the most important benefit of that. Um, according to 76% of the respondents and 73% said that they are looking for a flexible schedule. I would say that that flexible schedule piece, that's where this hybrid idea comes from, right? Like one of the main things about this hybrid kind of ministry in-person and digital is flexibility. Can we provide flexibility in how people can grow in their faith? Number four, they're looking for community culture and collaboration, even in remote settings. Nick Clason (17:15): Strong peer relationship. 63% say, um, feeling a part of the organization and 57% are key early reasons why early talent would choose to stay with an employer. Does your, does your church offer younger generations? Community culture and collaboration? If you're set up, like most churches, you offer a program, Hey, we got the young adult college ministry, it meets on Sunday morning during the second service. So that there it is, right? And does that community actually act like a community? Those are the questions I think that we as church leaders should be asking ourselves. Number five, um, committing publicly to diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. 55% of respondents say that a commitment to D E I B um, is extremely important when evaluating an employer. They're looking for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. That's really valuable to Generation Z. So again, I'll say, look at your board. Nick Clason (18:20): Go to your staff page. Is there diversity, diversity? Is there equity? Is there inclusion? Is their belonging shown there? If not, they're going to be looking for a church staff or church leadership that embraces those values. And then finally, number six, accountability. Actually, lemme go back before I say that. Uh, I had a, uh, an intern a couple years ago at church and diversity was really important to him. And we tried really, really hard to hire this kid. He was a, he was a stud man, he was a rockstar. And, um, he his like number one or number two, knock on knock, wanting to come to our church. Uh, one, he was from la we were in Chicago. So like, that was a big one. But the number one a or maybe even more than that, but he wouldn't say it or I mean, he, he was honest with us. Nick Clason (19:09): But, uh, the other thing he was like, just basically saying was like, there is no diversity here. Um, and he was like, and I don't mean diversity with door greeters and people on the platform, I mean diversity in leadership. And I mean, it was a profound statement and one that honestly, I don't even know that that trickled up to upper level leadership. Like I don't know if that, that that phrase ever got there, but the reality of it is like, that's what he was looking for and he didn't see it and he didn't see a path forward to it. And we lost out on an amazing, talented, you know, kid. So that's just another example. All right, number six, accountability on the environment, sustainability and social responsibility. 70% of generations, these survey respondents, they attend career events to ensure the role and responsibilities aligned with their interests and values. Nick Clason (20:01): 51% attend to ensure that the company aligns with their interests and values. So these are the things that matter to them and these are the things that they're looking for, yes, in workplaces. So if they wanna work at your church, but also in organizations that they're gonna choose to attach themselves to. So with that being said, I have three kind of takeaways, three learnings I think that are important for us as a church to understand and to explore. Let's dive in. Learning. Number one, 51% of generations, these say that their ultimate goal in life is happiness. Now, before you're like, that's not what a Christian's goal should be, I agree with you. Uh, I agree that a Christian's goal should be love and joy and peace, patience, and the fruits of the spirit. But if our target audience is saying that over half of them are looking for happiness, how are we going to help facilitate some of that for them? Nick Clason (20:55): Listen to some of these things too. A lot of this is, uh, from survey from Barna, um, of people, generation Z and some of their coping mechanisms. Okay? So just think about this in light of your church, and I'm not, I'm not giving commentary or creating like a, a roadmap or a like thing that you should do as a result of this. This is more just interesting coping mechanisms, the way that Generation Z is choosing to spend their time. So, um, the most common coping mechanisms are connected with non-family members at 45% connected with family 20%, and with music at 18%. So here are some of their quotes, TikTok, they're people feeling the same way as me, the ma, and that makes me feel less lonely. Um, another one, I will disappear into a world of my own, whether one I make myself or one that has already been created already, like books, shows or games doing one of my hobbies such as writing or violin, a good beat and a song I find solace in social media. Nick Clason (22:01): I like to be alone sometimes because it's peaceful and it's zen to me. I like to have conversations with the important people in my life by opening up to them, I receive positive affirmation, validation that I am not alone. I like to do comforting activities, reading fantasy books. I like to imagine myself as the main character because they're usually the ones with the perfect life. Sitting down to a single player game with a good story, looking in the mirror and saying, affirmations, getting on my bike and going for a ride. I like to send memes to my friends and then we will discuss them sleeping until the loneliness goes away. I watch videos of concerts on my phones playing with my many pets. They are my world. Those are some of the most common coping mechanisms out of generation Z. And I just wonder if we read those as older church leaders and think those sound ridiculous, maybe. But how are we showing up in some of these ways for our younger attenders that we're looking to reach and have be a part of our church? Nick Clason (23:13): Uh, idea number two that I think we as church should be, uh, at least aware of is honesty is one of the most important things as it pertains to generation Z, especially teenagers, but generation Z as a whole. I mean, we saw that right in that handshake art they want not only good pay, but they want transparency in pay. Like that is what's most important. So in a recent Barna study, um, these five categories we're given to, to Gen Z and to teenagers about what's important, what what, um, traits are important as it pertains to belief. And those were being correct, being knowledgeable, being open to new ideas, being curious, and being honest. The number one far and away, um, area that was most important was being honest. So we have, uh, broken down different categories, all of Gen Z teenagers and young adults. So I'm gonna read to you the, the statistics of each of those from those three categories. Nick Clason (24:19): So in being correct, only 8% of all of Gen Z cared about it. 6% of teens cared about it, and 9% of young adults cared about it being knowledgeable. 21% of the entire scope of Gen Z cared about it. 16% of teens cared about it, and 24% of young adults cared about it being open to new ideas. 28% of Gen Z cared about it. 29% of teenagers cared about it, and 28% of young adults cared about it being curious. 11% of Gen Z cared about it. 7% of teenagers cared about it, and 13% of young adults cared about it. But being honest, 32% of Gen Z cared about it. 41% of teenagers cared about it, and 25% of young adults cared about being honest. Honesty with one's belief is of utmost importance to Gen Z and specifically and especially to teenagers. So how can we create an environment in our organizations, in our churches that are more open and more honest? Nick Clason (25:14): The final area that I think that matters for churches is that churches, uh, or, um, gen Z young adults, they care about justice, they care about equality, they care about diversity. So some of the top ways that churches can address injustice, this is what, um, justice motivated, justice oriented and justice neutral generation Z um, categorizes said, all right, so they said that, uh, encouraging people to address injustice, 31% of justice motivated 28% of justice oriented and 18% of justice neutral said that the number one way that people could, um, address this was to simply walk into it, right? Go towards the injustice, the top ways that the church can do it. Other, other, like options that were given to them in the survey were by advocating for meaningful change, by welcoming people into a local church, by creating relationships with people who are experiencing injustice. Nick Clason (26:17): And by teaching that the Bible encourages special kindness to people who are experiencing injustice. So again, of those last four, the one that was most highly selected was simply by addressing it. So church leaders, church social media people, youth pastors, whoever's listening to this, the generation that's not a part of your church is mostly looking for you to address areas of injustice. I know that it's a difficult area to wade into. I know that it's polarizing. I know that it can get political and you can tick off some of the 65 year old members who sit all day and watch, um, news media and they'll tell you that this is an agenda from the left or an agenda from the right. But the reality is this is what's important to our younger congregate congregants and congregation members. So what are we gonna do? How are we gonna reach them and honesty and openness and justice motivation and helping them experience, um, what they would view as happiness. Nick Clason (27:26): Like these are the things that they are looking for. How can we as a church lean into this and help create the types of environments that these types of people go to? Because if we're not careful, we're gonna become like Tom Tido, head coach of the New York Knicks, who's outta touch, who no one wants to play for, and no one wants to go be a part of the team. Like literally the majority of the NBA players don't want to go play for him. Is that the way that younger generations, young adults and Gen Z is looking at your church and your church right now? I'm just gonna be honest, your church can get away with keeping on doing things the way that they've always been done because the majority of the people that you off or a pastor, uh, senior pastor are gonna surround themselves with are going to be the people that say it and do it, and are okay with the way that things have always been done. Nick Clason (28:21): And that may work for you for the next five or 10 years. But what about in 10, 15, 20 years when Generation Z is no longer 1920, but they're 25 30 and they've, they haven't been in your church for the last 10 years because you haven't done anything to help reach them and they're off experiencing faith in some other community in some other way. See, here's the reality. Gen Z is not out on Jesus. They are out on institutionalized faith and religion. And I think it's because of some of these reasons. I hope you found this episode helpful. I know in a a few ways it stepped on my toes. I just wanna encourage you, don't give up, keep leaning in the, the, the next generation needs you. And if you are the only person in your church advocating for hybrid, remember that is the value of the next generation. Nick Clason (29:14): We, and you and I, we may not have all the answers and that's okay. But what we are doing is we are trying our best to figure out the best way to create flexibility, honesty, co coping mechanisms, justice-oriented content that's going to help make our church one that a younger person is at least aware of and at least excited about being a part of. Thanks so much for hanging in there. Love to have you part of this journey. Make sure you head to the, uh, uh, show notes for, uh, full transcripts of this, uh, show notes, links, resources, all that type of stuff. I'll have some of those, those graphs and the stats that I've mentioned. All of that is available in the show notes. Go ahead there, leave a rating or a review. We would love to talk with you, love to see you over on YouTube or on my TikTok. But until next time, and as always, stay hybrid.
3 Church Communications Questions In this episode Nick Answers the following questions •Should I focus on my church website or social first? •There are too many announcements in my church, what do I do? •What are Digital Media Ideas for Churches in 2023? •And just for fun, what are my top 5 cell phone apps? You can get full episode transcripts at: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/051 You can watch the show at: http://www.youtube.com/@clasonnick TikTok: http://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES http://www.nucleus.church TIMECODES 00:00-02:45 Intro 02:45-07:36 Should My Church Focus on Social Media or Website? 07:36-17:06 There are too many announcements to make, what do I do? 17:06-21:56 What are Digital Media Ideas for Churches in 2023? 21:56-25:03 What are my Top 5 Cell Phone Apps as a Content Creator 25:03-26:02 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. In this episode, we are going to be answering three pressing and one maybe not so pressing church communication related questions. Before we do, excited to have you with us. I am here drinking my coffee Joffreys if you know, you know, in my new Avengers mug, cuz we just got back from Disney World. It was amazing. Uh, I took a week off from recording and editing and all the things, but you missed nothing cuz we did some peer recording. So you are all set to go. Anyway, pumped about that. If you, uh, want to see any of the recaps of that stuff, it is on my YouTube channel, my TikTok, or if you just wanna see me hold my new Avengers mug that is currently streaming on YouTube right now as well. If you're just listening to this, you can go to the link in our show notes and hit the YouTube button, hit the subscribe, hit the bell, hit the, like, all those things are good for the algorithm. Nick Clason (01:03): Help us get found. If you're just watching on YouTube and you're like, wait, this is a podcast. Yes it is, it's a podcast. Come hang out with us. Link in the show notes for that in every single episode we provide for you and 100% completely free transcript. Just head to the website and check it out. And, uh, in addition to that, we have a completely free ebook. It is basically your step-by-step guide on how to create a TikTok, post it, save it, and then post it to other social platforms so that you can be up on what's going on social media right now, vertical video is king and it is giving the church a leg up for one of the very first times in social media history. So we don't want you to be missing out on that. Finally, hey, if you are here, a rating, a review would be incredible. Nick Clason (01:51): It really helps us get indexed and found and helps get this word out to other people. So if you feel so inclined to leave a rating or a review, we would just absolutely love that. Without any further ado, let's dive into these three pressing and one not so pressing church communication questions. They are going to be question number one, what should I focus on first? Social or my website? Question number two, there are altogether too many events happening at my church to effectively announce anything. What do I do? I have some advice on that. And what is the best digital media for churches in 2023? What should I be doing? And they're maybe not as popular out there. Like, what are some ideas? And finally, what are my top five used apps on my phone? So there you go. That's what we're diving into. Let's go. Nick Clason (02:46): Okay, question number one, what should I focus on? Should it be social or should it be my website? And this one's, honestly, my personal estimation, pretty easy. I think the answer should be your website. Here's a couple reasons why. It is your home base. If you create your website, you own it. You are the, you are the primary real estate manager of it. If you're on social media and you're growing a following over there, you should do that as well. But if you had to pick between one or the other, social media is a little bit finicky because it changes its rules. I e the algorithm you've been there before where someone's gotten big on, on some sort of platform, whether it be Facebook or Instagram or TikTok. And then one of those platforms shifts underneath them, the algorithm, and they're no longer getting found. Nick Clason (03:38): Their videos are not getting as many plays, they're not getting as many likes, and that's because they are not the owner of their content. They're on borrowed or rented space on social media. Meanwhile, on your website, you can make it everything that you need or want it to be. And I honestly recommend, and I, this is not an original idea with me at all. I stole this one 1000% from the guys up at Pro Church Tools Nucleus Church, but make it your centralized hub. The reason for that is because like on social media, for example, you might post, uh, a fleeting thought or an idea or a devotional or, uh, engage in ministry in the dms in some sort of way with people. However, if, if you are using social media as your primary vehicle for announcements, if it is a glorified billboard, then people are going to be like, wait, I saw that post a couple of weeks ago, let me scroll back and try and find it. Nick Clason (04:37): That's a pain in the butt, man. But if you put it on your website and if they know, if people know that it's on your website, then what you can do is you, when they ask you a question, you can be like, Hey, yeah, the answer is whatever. But also it's on the website. Anytime you need that and you do that a few times to any individual person and they learn, you kind of start to feel like a jerk, like early on with it. Like we're in that phase right now. We just got a website that we are dumping everything too. I told you a couple episodes ago, it's not exactly what I hoped it would be. I want to go with like a nucleus site. Uh, but we have to go, you know, with our church communications people. Uh, I, I work in our youth mystery department and so like I have to make sure that what I'm doing jives with the rest of the church, which I totally get and I'm am in support of that. Nick Clason (05:28): Um, however, because of that, the website has certain things on it that we just, we are not able to kind of work around ourselves yet. And so, uh, anyway, all that to be said, it's still a full service location. And so if a parent or someone's like, Hey, you send an email a couple weeks back, where was that information about? Or what you can just say, yeah, yeah, you know, camp deadline is May 31st, but also did you know that it's on the website at film url? And you say that, you just start saying that a bunch, right? And it becomes like a part of your, like vernacular a part of your answer. And that's why I think that you should go website first because website is your own real estate. It's the equivalent of owning or renting an Airbnb from somebody for vacation, which can be fun, it can be exciting, it can be sexy. Nick Clason (06:23): And you have like all your stuff. Like that's kinda like social media, right? It's kind of fun, it's kind of exciting and it might even feel a little more sexy than building out a full website. But at the end of the day, you don't own it. It's owned by Mark Zuckerberg or someone in China who, whoever's owning TikTok or the YouTube gods that be that pick the algorithm. But if you own your house, it's not as fun. You know, when the HVAC system goes out that it's on you to fix. You can't just call the owner or call the landlord. Like that's your responsibility because it's your house and you own it, however, it's yours and you build equity in it and you get to ride the housing market and it's all the unseen, not as fun, not as glamorous, not as shiny things, but it is still better. Nick Clason (07:09): That's how we, we all know, like when you own a house, it's better. However, it's more of a pain in the butt and it's not as shiny, it's not as glamorous, but it's better. So that's what I would recommend. I would recommend if you have to pick between the two social or website, definitely lean website. Make sure that you own your real estate, your videos, your uh, announcements, your, uh, people are aware of where to go and what to do when they get there. Okay? There are too many ministries and too many events vying for attention and wanting to be announced. What do I do? Well, I would create some sort of rubric, some sort of, uh, church communications, uh, ranking system. And you have to make a determination and certain things get certain priority, right? Like the Easter service, which affects the entire church body is going to get all the publicity and all the stage time. Nick Clason (08:10): Meanwhile, the woman's bunko night, while still important and still matters and no hard feelings to Phyllis who's planning it, uh, is not going to maybe get the same amount of announcement or same amount of run, but you know how it goes, right? You don't announce it. And now Phyllis is angry because you didn't announce her thing from the stage, but you got Pastor John over here who needs the Easter announcement to go out as well. And so you're trying to make Phyllis and Pastor John both happy, but you work for Pastor John and Phyllis is just this like, uh, volunteer sweet old lady who's volunteering for the women's ministry, but you work for Pastor John, right? And so that's kind of, that's what maybe the mental gymnastics are that you're going through when you're determining what to announce and how to announce it. Now here's the thing. Nick Clason (08:59): I think that churches have very much fallen in prey to announcements being a one track sort of thing. It being the announcement time on Sunday morning from the platform. And that's it. And that's just simply not true. So, uh, while you can create your, uh, rubric and you can grade like, okay, the woman's bunko night, unfortunately we don't have enough space for these announcements. Uh, and so it's gonna get bumped from the Sunday morning announcement time. However, there are other channels and other avenues in which you can lean into and which you can help create so that people are in the loop about what is going on. And so create your rubric, create your metric or your grading system about what pops through what actually gets a stage announcement so that you're not, you know, announcing 25 things, you're announcing only a handful of things or, or honestly, if I could find a way, I would make it be announcing only one thing so that people really know it. Nick Clason (09:58): And then really craft that announcement to be good and well done. Um, captivating, inspirational, perhaps try and find a way to share a story. People are gonna connect to a story, especially a story about life change and then announce it. But then, yeah, you did, you left Phyllis's, uh, bunko on the cutting room floor. So what are you gonna do? So there are multiple communications avenues and I wanna just kinda like, uh, stream of consciousness, rapid fire, some of the ones that I have, uh, or that are in my brain and maybe, and so doing that, that sparks something that works for you and uh, you can use that in your setting as well. But, uh, one of them is your pre-roll, right? As people are coming into service, utilize that time with rotating or scrolling announcement slides. It's not very innovative, I know, and it might even seem outdated and antiquated, but it is, I think, worth it because you have a very captive audience, people filtering in, sitting down, looking ahead at a screen. Nick Clason (10:57): And you can have announcements, you can have things popping through, obviously. Also you can utilize, uh, your social media channels on there though. What I would do is I would try and lean into what social media is made for. So for example, instead of just posting graphics on reels or TikTok or just like graphics on your Instagram or Facebook feeds, I would find a way to creatively, uh, do memes or games or, uh, silly like p o v type content. But you do those things and it, it adjacently announces your event while also being something on there that is, uh, leaning towards entertainment. Uh, also think about signage. Where is the signage and what is the available signage in your church? Could be bathroom signage, which is one of my favorites. Having a sign above urinals for men is a great place to put something because why no man wants to look side side. Nick Clason (11:53): So look good straight ahead. Okay? Uh, you also got banners if you have like a table setting, like we, in our student ministry, we have a table setting, um, where like people sit around round tables and there's a like clear placard that sits right in the middle. You can do tabletop type announcements or tabletop type signs. You also have your work weekly church email and then also your weekly stage announcement, right? And then I think every announcement, no matter what should get included into your one-stop centralized hub, your one stop website so that everybody knows no matter what to always go there. So even if they see Bunco in the pre-roll, but they're like, ah, shoot, I didn't catch all the details, that's okay, because they know it's on the website, right? It's the same thing. That's true of like, if you watch a movie trailer, if you watch a movie trailer online, you're like, man, I have to go see the new Marvel movie. Nick Clason (12:48): Yeah, you do. But what it didn't do was it didn't pop up an end card at the end of the trailer and say your hometown, your movie theaters and the showing times for each day for the next week. No, it puts the onus on you If you wanna see the movie, if you wanna go to Bunko night, then you will chase down that information. Historically, what's been the issue, churches haven't done a very good job of making that information readily available. They think they do by, by including it in the announcement or the graphic is like a bunko thing. And then it's just got like worlds and worlds of text, like six 30 to eight in the f building with Phyllis. And uh, if you want to go make sure you email Phyllis at flower lady 37 29 aol.com cuz apparently Phyllis is still using aol. Nick Clason (13:38): And, uh, if you have questions, you can swing by the welcome desk in the front lobby. And you see what I'm saying? Like, instead, if you streamline everything and you say Bunco Night Info app, boom, your website, everything you go to your website provides itself as a bit of a backdrop. Now let me give you one of my favorite church communications hacks of all time. And that hack is, this is, this is a little bit not a pet peeve, but I I just, I think that you're missing an opportunity if you do it this way. So for example, I am an author on Download Youth ministry, and one of the things that has made very famous, made very available are five minute countdowns. They put the five minute countdown on, um, right, you know, five minutes before the service is supposed to start. And that's a very popular thing. Nick Clason (14:28): Our churches do it. Your church probably has some sort of iteration of a five minute countdown. One of my pet peeves, or one of the things I just honestly think is a little bit of a miss is that you have a, a lot of churches, they'll have a pre-roll and then at the five minute mark, they'll switch off of the pre-roll to this five minute countdown. Um, and this actually happened yesterday where I was gonna church. I looked around five, there were, I don't know, probably like 20% of the people that were going to end up being in the service, um, or that ended up being in the service at that time. And they switched off the pre-roll, which was very information and announcement heavy to a generic, um, a good, very good like cinematic good, uh, picture and encapsulation of the church and the life of the church and like serving and events and all the things, but no information. Nick Clason (15:21): And in that five minute time, it went from 20% of the service to probably like 70, 80% of the service. And all the people that walked into the room at that moment, they didn't get any of that benefit of the pre-roll. And if they got in there a minute early, if the pre-roll was still rolling, they could sit there and they could still see the last little bit of the pre-roll. They would still catch some of the things and maybe, maybe Bunco would roll in front of them and then they would know, oh, Bono's coming up. And so one of my favorite hacks is create a pre-roll and, and create a dynamic pre-roll if you have what it takes, one that's video based and all the things. And then, and instead of swapping a five minute countdown, just create a loop and then put a five minute countdown on through pro presenter or just throw a five minute overlay on a video and render out two videos, one without a five minute countdown, one with a five minute countdown. Nick Clason (16:17): And so that way when they switch from the pre-roll to the five minute countdown, the sa it's the same thing. That's, that's what I do in my ministry. It's the same video. Just one has a five minute countdown timer on it, one does not. And that's one of my favorite hacks because I believe that you have a captive audience of people filtering into your auditorium. They are actually paying attention to the screen once it starts counting down, or they should be at least because they don't want to be late or they have to get from one place to the other. And so in so much as paying attention, the theory then is that they're at least going to be mildly aware of the other announcements that are going on behind the five minute countdown. So that's one of my favorite hacks for you as a church communications person. Nick Clason (17:01): Hope it's helpful. Let me know if you implement it. Let's move on to question three. What are three digital media ideas for churches in 20 20, 20 23 that aren't as popular? So idea that I have number one that I don't think is as popular now, they're very popular, don't get me wrong, but they may not be as popular with churches are podcasts. And I don't just mean your Sunday sermon podcast, though, you 100% should be doing that. It's probably the lowest hanging fruit and the most available opportunity for you to start regularly posting podcasts and a podcast catcher. But I also think what about finding ways to create podcasts that educate, that explain, um, different facets of faith or spiritual disciplines or fill in the blank, right? But podcasts I think are an amazing tool that churches should be leaning into as churches. Church leaders and pastors are professional content creators. Nick Clason (18:02): And so your people, you are creating content for them every single week on a Sunday morning. And for quite frankly, it is a lecture style piece of information that you are creating for your church. So why are you not taking that skill that you have honed that you are good at? Um, and honestly, maybe you're like, well, I'm, I'm the senior pastor, like I don't have time. Maybe you work at a church with additional other staff and pastors who don't preach as often as you. Maybe this would be an outlet or an avenue for them to exercise their teaching gift to grow in what their, uh, and what God has given to them. Uh, but they don't have time or you don't have time or the sermon preaching calendar doesn't allow for the time or the space for them to get a lot of stage time. Nick Clason (18:47): That's okay. You can give this other outlet, this other avenue for them to exercise those gifts for them to teach people via podcast. So I think podcasts are a really creative way and a really potentially effective way for churches to lean in, um, and to create additional content for their churches and for people who are interested in what the church has to offer. Another idea that I have are TikTok style teaching or inspirational videos. So while podcast is long form, I think TikTok style videos are the best, like zig to the zag of that where they are, uh, short. So podcast, really no, no matter how long it is, you can go as long as you want. TikTok, make it as short as humanly possible, and perhaps to even marry those two, just film your podcasts and then cut out clips of from the podcast. Nick Clason (19:43): And then the short videos can serve as both inspirational and educational, but they can also serve as an advertisement of sorts or a marketing technique for your podcast. So you post on your social channel some of those short clips, and then people begin to discover and realize that there's a longer form version of this out there via audio podcast or even video podcast. I mean, if you're gonna capture the, the video, uh, and you have the bandwidth for it, there's really no reason to then marry the, the audio and the video, put it together, and then just create a video based podcast as well. And then idea number three that I have eBooks right, the, in the same vein, you are a professional content creator. So just take the content that you have that's good, that's useful, that's beneficial that you have studied, that the Holy Spirit has laid on your heart, and that you then are now, uh, presenting and showing to your church congregation. Nick Clason (20:40): Take that and put package that in a way that makes it available for people. Why maybe you, uh, maybe it hits a different audience than those who are in the church on Sunday morning. Maybe they weren't there on Sunday morning, but it's still something that's out there and that's available for them to do, right? Like if you're a pastor and you create like three ideas for studying God's word, you can create that in an infographic or an ebook or something like that, and you can offer that to your church and you have that to live on in perpetuity. Meanwhile, if you preach that sermon on March 12th, 2016, that's lost back on March 12th, 2016. But if you repurpose some of that content, then anytime anyone has a question about, Hey, how do I spend time with God, Jack? You know, I created this resource, and you just pull it back out or you, you post it on your website or you have it somewhere that's accessible, that's available for people to come to, for you to share with them. Nick Clason (21:37): And that's, I think another way that you can help kind of, uh, rejuvenate or repurpose some of your already created content into something that feels fresh. It isn't fresh, but it's beneficial and it's helpful to people's spiritual growth and their journey and their information and understanding of God's word. All right, question number four. What are the top five apps that I as a youth pastor and as a, uh, content creator used on my phone often? Number one is Google Drive. I would be sunk without Google Drive. I store all of my photos, all of my videos on Google Drive, and they sit there and then I download them off of Google Drive and then I post them and then I can delete the storage off of my phone. So that is the first thing. I would absolutely be lost without it. I use it both for business and for personal, and I can toggle very easily between both of those accounts in my Google Drive. Nick Clason (22:33): Do it often, do it all the time. The other app on my phone that I use a lot is Cap Cut. There are templates galore out there, and TikTok, um, honestly is pushing cap cut templates right now. So if you post a tick, uh, cap cut template, you can go viral pretty easy. Um, I have not had as good of luck with that on TikTok, but you know, where I have is YouTube shorts. I can get videos up over a thousand views pretty easily just by using a cap cut template. Uh, another thing that I use is gonna sound weird, but I use my Google Chrome app all the time. And if I post something that I created in TikTok by itself, then I go into Google Chrome and I search, download TikTok video without watermark, I go to the very first search engine result there. Nick Clason (23:18): I paste the link from my TikTok video, I download it, I copy the caption that I, that I created in TikTok. I go over to Instagram and I post it and I paste the, the caption and then I go over to YouTube shorts and I post the video and I paste the caption. And that is one of the quickest, easiest and hackiest ways for me to get the TikTok, uh, watermark off of my videos and onto other social media platforms. Couple others that I use that are just kind of for me, uh, cast box. I'm an Android guy, so I don't have the purple podcast app for podcasts, but I listen to podcast galore. Like I told you at the beginning. I was in Disney World last week and I got behind on my podcast. So I have something like 60 podcasts in my catcher right now that I need to, uh, pound through. Nick Clason (24:06): I also am subscribed to maybe way too many, and so I might need to cut some of those back. But I listen to podcasts a lot. I have a decent commute and so, um, I'm able to, you know, listen to them as I go. And finally, one, uh, that I don't use a ton, but it's good to have there for reference is Kindle. I use Kindle across all of my devices. Uh, if I'm reading some sort of book for work, I try to get it in a Kindle version. That way I don't have to lug the book with me. Or if like I'm at a doctor's or dentist's office and I wanna sit and wait for a minute, I can pull it open and read wherever I am on my phone, on my iPad, on my computer. Um, and then I can quickly reference back to other things, other books, other, um, ideas that I've read before. Nick Clason (24:49): If I want to use them for something on social media or whatever the case might be, those are five must have apps that I use on a pretty frequent and regular basis to help make my life easier as a social media manager in a church. Well, hey everyone. So glad you hung out with me on this episode. And if you're on the YouTube stream, you're looking at my Avengers mug right now. Glad that you hung out and you stuck around as always. Transcript hybridministry.xyz, give us a light, give us a rating, give us a share, give us a review. All those things would mean the world to us. And as a token of my and our appreciation back to you, we would love to give you our 100% completely free ebook title. Have I already ruined my church's TikTok account? The answer is no. But go download the book so that you know how to use and post to TikTok whenever, and however you want, head to the link in the show notes for that. And without any further ado, we're gonna get you outta here. Thanks for hanging out. Don't forget to, as always, stay hybrid.
In this episode, titled, "Dude, My Kids are Obsessed with YouTube. What does this mean for the future of the church and Generation Alpha?" we're going to explore what Google has to say about why kids are obsessed with YouTube. We're going to look into the analytics and some stats about Generation Alpha, and finally some implications for our churches moving forward. FREE EBOOK: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook YOU GOT QUESTIONS? WE GOT ANSWERS: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/contact SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g FOLLOW ME ON TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick?lang=en JOIN US ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ SHOWNOTES YOUTUBE ARTICLES https://tiptopbrain.com/blog/is-youtube-for-kids-the-pros-and-cons-of-kids-on-youtube/#:~:text=Well%2C%20YouTube%20allows%20kids%20to,to%20learning%20a%20new%20language. YOUTUBE ARTICLE #2 https://join.marketing/blog/youtube/#/ TIMECODES 00:00-03:39 Intro 03:39-09:24 Introduction to Generation Alpha 09:24-15:05 What does the Google Machine have to say about why kids are so obsessed with YouTube? 15:05-20:14 How Generation Z & Gen Alpha's consumption of YouTube might be changing things for the church 20:14-22:41 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. So excited to be with you. I, as always am your host, Nick Clason, along for the ride. And in today's episode, I want to talk about this dude, my kids are obsessed with YouTube. What does this mean for the future? That's what we have on store. So make sure that you stick around. We're gonna talk about Generation Alpha, we're gonna talk about what's unique about YouTube, what I've found through a little bit of research and as well as just give some, as I've done before, some stream of consciousness kind of thoughts. This is what some implications might be for you and for your church moving forward, and how you can rethink the way, potentially the way that you do ministry or the way that you supplement what you do for ministry. Don't want you to forget that we are on YouTube. Nick Clason (00:52): And today I'm going to share a couple of exclusive graphics on the screen, so make sure that you head over there if that's something that you're interested in. Um, you can subscribe to that in the show notes, subscribe like the video. All those things will help. A rating or a review of the show, maybe even a share with a friend. All of that stuff really, really helps us get indexed gets found. And I just wanna say thank you. Like we have had, the last three or four months have been our biggest months by far, by like combined with almost all the other months before that. So we are well on our way to a thousand downloads. So pumped about that, we are almost up to 200 subscribers on YouTube. And so, again, very excited about that. Thank you guys for hanging out. I also want to toss this out there. Nick Clason (01:34): If you're listening, head to the show notes, http://www.hybridministry.xyz, and I'm gonna leave a link for the Q and for a q and a section. If you have questions that you want answered on this show, send them in. What are you grappling with? What are you wrestling through and how can we help be of any sort of assistant answering some of those and just giving some ideas and thoughts about. Again, uh, if you don't know my story, I am a youth pastor, Nick Clason in the trenches at a church in Dallas Fort Worth area. I am doing all the things. I am running the programs. We got Wednesday nights, we got Sunday mornings, and I am also someone who's just passionate about digital and hybrid ministry. Not because I want to forsake the gathering together, but because I want to add supplemental opportunities for you and me and us as a church to show up in the lives of our people, in my case, my students, in potentially your case, your congregation members' lives. Nick Clason (02:26): And so that's the whole mission and desire behind what we're doing here at this show. And so that's what we're gonna be exploring is different social media platforms, church marketing tips, digital communication opportunities, church, social media, and church growth ideas, especially talking about younger generations like Generation Z and Generation Alpha. And so that's in particular what this episode is going to be aimed at is this I idea and this realization that I'm coming to with Generation Alpha. If you don't know Jen Alpha is the, um, most, uh, they are the youngest kids in our student ministry age right now, sixth, seventh, eighth grade. Um, and so we're gonna dive into that a little bit more. Again, so thrilled to have you along in the show. I just wanna let you know one last thing before we dive into the actual content free ebook link in the show notes. Nick Clason (03:20): It will help you and give you your guide from posting a TikTok from zero all the way to finished. Again, thanks so much for hanging out on this, uh, show and let's dive into, dude, my kids are obsessed with you two. What does this mean for the church? First, we're gonna talk about Jen Alpha, so let's go ahead and do that on the other side. All right, so generation alpha, the the oldest generation Alpha was born in 2010. So a little bit of Lucy Goose goosey math that makes them 13 years old. That is what I often do for, um, like age like that. All right, so like someone's 13 years old. I always, if you subtract five, you'll know what grade they're in. That's a little pro tip youth pastor tip that I use. So 13 minus five equals eight. That means that the, uh, oldest Gen Z is eighth grade. Nick Clason (04:12): That means that seventh and sixth grade. So our entire middle school ministry is Gen Alpha. I might have said Gen Z, but I mean Gen Alpha, generation Alpha is basically our entire middle school ministry. So youth pastors, if, if you're a youth pastor like I am, you've been trying to crack the code of Gen Z. Gen Z is high school and in about four years, they're done. We're not worried about Gen Z anymore in student ministry, or we shouldn't be. And you know, some churches are just now grappling with the idea of reaching millennials, bro, millennials are in their forties now. Like I am a millennial. I am 33 years old, I'll be 34 in a couple of months. I am dead in the middle of my working life. I have children and my children are not Gen Z. My children are gen alpha. Um, so 2010 is the bracket. Nick Clason (04:58): So I have two kids, they're born in 2016 and then 2018. So they're square in that Gen alpha range. So a couple of things that are unique about them. 2010, keep in mind about this, right, 2010, for those of you listening, those of you older was the year that the ipo, the iPad was introduced. You might remember that. I remember when I was in college and the iPad was introduced, and when the iPad came out, I thought to myself, wow, who is even gonna use that? That's just an over-inflated iPhone. It doesn't even do anything for you. Now let me ask you this. How many iPads in your life have you owned me? 3, 4, 5, maybe at this point, right? Like at the time it was an ex exorbitant price tag. And I remember when it came out, we all in college, I was in college, all my friends were like, we're not ever gonna get the iPad. Nick Clason (05:47): That's ridiculous. I can do all the same things on my iPhone and carry it around in my pocket. Doesn't even have data then if they did introduce one with data. But I had this really cool opportunity, did an internship one summer in Connecticut, and me and the guy that I was staying with, my host family, we were chatting up one day about the iPad and its functionality. And he worked in Times Square. So I was in Connecticut and he, he commuted down the train an hour into Times Square, worked at a bank in Times Square. And so he had the iPad as a thing to do on the train so that he could work and commute, respond to emails, all those types of things. He got the plan with data, so we're talking about it, whatever. And I get ready to leave after my 10 weeks of staying at their house needing all their food. Nick Clason (06:28): And uh, they give me a going away gift of an iPad, like a brand new iPad. And so I walk into school the next year as almost the only kid in the entire, like sophomore class or junior class, whatever class I was in that had an iPad. In fact, all my friends made fun of me because they, they talked about how like, uh, bougie or how like, um, over the top I was for actually owning an iPad. And there was this hashtag that would go around, it's like hashtag Nick has an iPad. Like it, it was a joke. But my point in saying that is remember when the iPad came out, how long ago that was, how or how recent that might feel to you. That was the same year that the oldest group of generation Alpha kids were born back then when the iPad was created. Nick Clason (07:16): So hopefully that gives you just a little bit of context, a little bit of frame of reference timeline wise about when they were born, when that shift from Gen Z switched over to Generation Alpha. And so my kids, my personal kids are squarely in that Generation Alpha category and they are obsessed with YouTube. And so much so that our Disney plus our Netflix, all those things are not as important as our YouTube premium subscription that we just signed up for. In fact, I'm viewing YouTube Premium as one of my streaming services in my house. And quite frankly, the reason for that is my kids prefer to watch people like Ryan's World or Dude Perfect. Or, um, what's the one Rainbow Friends like on YouTube? So much so that I was like, I wanna get a, um, premium so that I can keep them away from commercials. Nick Clason (08:07): And in one hand, yes, Jen Alpha has a much lower tolerance for commercials than you and I might do, uh, or you and I might have as people who've grown up with traditional broadcast tv, but also like, bro, I'm letting them loose on YouTube. Like I, I want to at least, and I'm in the age with them still where they'll listen to me. They won't be defiant intentionally or disobey intentionally. So they'll watch what I tell them. They're allowed to watch shows that I'm okay with them watching, but I had no control over the ads. And so I bought premium to control the ads. I e get rid of the ads and it's a nice little feature. Um, I, I like it for my phone and stuff like that as well, cuz it's my, my account and then their, so their subsidiary kids' accounts, but they are obsessed with it. Nick Clason (08:51): And so I was, I was just, you know, fighting them again. They're like, Hey, I wanna be on YouTube, I wanna watch you on YouTube. And I'm like, all right, whatever. That's fine. And they're just watching our tv, you know, they don't even really watch it on like their phones or tab, they don't even have phones or, or devices really, but they'll watch it on just like our Smart TVs, our Rokus. And I was like, why are they so obsessed with YouTube? Like what gives, like, why is the deal? And so I just, I wanted to explore that and that's what I wanted to explore in this podcast episode. So let's dive into the next section, which I'm titling, what did the Google machine have to say about this? Let's check it out. Nick Clason (09:26): All right. Like any good millennial parent, I did what we've all done before, right? And I had this idea, and so I asked Google, Google, why do my kids like YouTube so much more than any other shows? And here's what, um, the first result spit out, it said, YouTube allows kids to explore their interest on a whim deeply, easily. And with great entertainment from week to week. Kids can go from, uh, routinely watching videos about plant-based diets to learning a new language. And so basically what I was saying is like that YouTube has just a vast array, a vast library of ideas to allow people to kind of explore. And that's one of the things, especially with Gen Z, I think we started to see that shift. I think that's gonna be even just as true, maybe even more true of generation alpha in the land of they get to tailor make their experience. Nick Clason (10:17): And I think that that right there is going to be a massive shift for churches. I don't think that we should compromise on our standards or our, the truth of the gospel or the truth of the message of Jesus and the fact that he redeems us from our sins and gives us an opportunity to have salvation found in him. But we oftentimes equate that truth of the gospel, that truth of Jesus with, uh, like, like church has to look this way. And if you're not coming to church every single week in person for 52 weeks a year listening to a pastor's sermon first and above all, and then maybe secondarily and ancillary finding community. But first you gotta make sure you go to that worship service. I mean, it's a very fun prolific approach. Uh, we've, we've all learned that marketing the concentric circles Rick Warren. Nick Clason (11:07): And I don't know that that like funnel approach is, or that like large groom gr large room gathering experience is the top of the funnel anymore. I think the top of the funnel is what I'm trying to, to propose to all of you digital and hybrid options and digital and hybrid ministry. And then if someone is interested in custom making their experience, they may not find, I'll just be honest with you, like, and don't crucify me for this, but like, I would rather listen to my pastor sermon o on a run or on my way to work than sit and listen for an hour just to a talking head. Like, I love my pastor, but like I can put it on 1.5 speed. I can get just about all the same experiences out of it. There's really no, and for me, I, I'm always, almost always late cuz I'm, I'm working on something ahead of time cuz my job is to work at church and I'm leaving early cuz I have to get to something else to run something else. Nick Clason (12:02): I'm not talking to almost like a single soul in the auditorium. Like the one element that I really can't get is live praise and worship. That is the one thing that I, I don't think like Spotify or something else digital can replace. That being said, like I do really want that connection, that community. Like that's really important to me. And, and I would almost argue, especially for our younger and next generations, like they want that real authentic like opportunity for connection and community. They want that more than they want a large group gathering auditorium. So I say that to say we have the message of the gospel, but we've equated the, the why or the mission and we've tied it very tightly to our method. And we've said the mission and the method are one and the same. And if you don't love coming to church at eight 30 to listen to a sermon, you don't love Jesus. Nick Clason (12:57): And while again, I think that there are benefits of that, and I think that that's like in a lot of churches, that's the way things are done. And I think that that's not a bad thing necessarily. I do think that in this like create your own experience world, how are we gonna reach people that can literally get on YouTube and watch whatever they want, yet we say, but you gotta do it this way over here. Like how much longer is that experience going to last? And so continuing on YouTube is the second largest search platform in the world, like right behind Google and it's owned by Google. So not only is it the second largest, and it's like, it's not like it's trying to compete with the first one, right? The first one powers the second largest search engine in the world. Some people say it's the third largest. Nick Clason (13:43): And and they would put Google images in between. Again, all three top three owned by Google. 400 hours of content is uploaded to YouTube. Every get this, every minute, 400 hours of content is uploaded to YouTube every single minute of every single day. That is bonkers to me. 1 million, or I'm sorry, excuse me, not million with an m, billion with a b, 1 billion hours of content are watched on YouTube every single day. Crazy. All right, this is from an article. Um, I got a couple different articles that I use to, to get some of these stats from. I'll drop those in the show notes. Um, so check those out. But television viewing figures from across Europe, this is a European art article, are in decline. Children and young adults now watch a third less broadcast television than they did in 2010. So like I said, that graph is up here on the screen if you're watching on YouTube. Nick Clason (14:41): If not, head on over to the show notes and you can check that out. But what I want you to know is that there, that YouTube is changing the game in television and I'm wondering what implications might be for church. So let's dive into some potential church implications on how generation alpha and generation Z consumption of YouTube might be changing things for the church in 2023 and moving beyond. All right, so what are our church implications? What does YouTube and the rise of it have as far as churches are concerned? What are the implications? I mean, here's the thing about churches, right? Like church is a social entity in a lot of ways. And like I know we're like, no, no, no, it's about Jesus and it's about relationship with him and it's not religion, it's relationship, all those things. That's fine. But at the, at the core of the day, like at the end of what we're talking about here, like when people feel connected to a church, it's because they feel connected to the belief system, probably, hopefully first and foremost, but then secondarily the community that they've found there. Nick Clason (15:39): And so if students, people, kids, parents, adults, anyone are not connected to the rest of the people, the rest of the larger organization of the church, they're not gonna stay in the church. And so the reality about this, this is very simple, this is very basic. I'm not trying to say anything honestly, really profound to be a part of a church. You're either a part of it or you're not a part of it. Like that's it, right? There's really only two options. You either feel a part of it or you don't feel a part of it. And there's all sorts of in between about people who maybe feel in the margins are trying to get a part of it, can't get a part of it, are not really trying to get a part of it, and are not really connected. But other people maybe like their parents are super connected. Nick Clason (16:16): There's all sorts of stuff in between. But at the end of the day, you either feel connected or you don't feel connected, okay? And like I said, there may be some gray, some nuance in there, but if you're not feeling connected, the reality is this, is that, is that your like tie to your church, your interest in your church is not gonna be that elevated based off of what we typically offer. And so how are we going to find ways, find inroads into our people's lives, potentially through YouTube? Uh, I said this a while back, 70, I think three or 79% of, um, people have at one point in time watched some sort of explainer how to video on YouTube. That's a great spot for churches to just start. How to read your bible, how to find accountability, how to pray short form, long form, long form clipped into short form. Nick Clason (17:07): There's all kinds of opportunities there. And you're probably thinking, I don't have time for this. I get it. That is where like there has to be a, a vision and a mission like fueling behind this idea. Like we are going all in on this because this matters to generation Z and generation Alpha and the younger people in our church. It may not be the biggest like priority for your top givers and donors in their forties, fifties, and sixties, but it matters to the younger generation. So how can we do that? Recently I was talking to a church and the funniest part about this is that, um, we had met where we had a planned meeting on the calendar with two youth pastors from another church in town. And they walked in as me and my boss and my other coworker associate were all, um, filming a TikTok video. Nick Clason (17:57): And it was one of those tos where it was like, do you know it or do you not know it? And the the theme was high school musical songs, and if you knew it, you went to one side of the, the frame on the camera, and if you didn't, you went to the other and they walked in on us doing that. Uh, but of course that led to a conversation like, what, what were you guys doing? How often do you post a TikTok? What's your philosophy and strategy behind it? But they told us that they were a youth ministry with 800 kids coming at one point in time and they don't have those numbers anymore. And so we like, that got me thinking like, again, the 800 kids that were a part of the church back in the day, why are kids less and less interested in church? Nick Clason (18:35): And I think it's because there's more and more opportunity out there for them. And a lot of times our response to that is, well then we need to get kids off phones. We need to get kids off social media and get them back in church. And that could work, like, that could modify their behavior to make that happen. Um, but are they really there? Is their heart really in it at that point? Um, and the then the question I thought of was like, well then what was the commitment level of the 800 back in the day? Was it just the best, most poppin social gathering to come to? Or was it, um, they felt forced, they felt expected, they had not as much, you know, distraction opportunity as they do now. And so maybe the, the quality of those 800 though, the quantity was there, the quality wasn't maybe now same thing. Nick Clason (19:26): The quality is there and the quantity is not. How do you raise, how do you raise both? And I think one way that you can raise both is to lean into this hybrid ministry. How can you on YouTube with 400 hours uploaded every minute with 1 billion, um, what was it? 1 billion, 1 billion hours of content watched every single day with 1 billion hours of content watched every single day. How can you lean into that, um, as a church and show up where it matters most in people's everyday lives? What matters most is not showing up on YouTube. I want to be clear, but what matters most is showing up in people's lives on a regular and consistent basis and maybe in the unexpected zones, i e not just the times you're expected to show up Wednesday nights and Sunday mornings. Well, hey everyone, thanks so much for hanging out on this episode. Nick Clason (20:19): I hope that just this kind of brain dump thought process, like live reaction to me exploring why in the world do my kids like YouTube so much? What does it mean for our churches helped? I still don't really know the actual why. I think it just gives them like their own control, their own algorithm selection. The algorithm shows them more and more of what they wanna watch and I think that they enjoy that. You know, um, some of the other streaming platforms are trying to sort of adapt that sort of algorithm ai thought process into what they're doing. I mean, so the reality is like they're still losing right to YouTube, like they're still losing to YouTube. And so, um, I just think that that trend is worth noticing. And uh, one of the reasons I notice it is, is threefold. One, I'm, I'm the church communication guy in our student ministry. Nick Clason (21:04): Two, I'm a youth pastor, so I interact with generation Alpha on a regular basis. Three, I'm the dad of generation alpha kids, like little, little kids, um, who are going to shape the future generations. And so those three things I'm noticing, and I hope that in immunos in them you find that advantageous and useful for your church to not grow outdated and stale, but to continue to grow young and and relevant to the students, kids and younger people in your congregations. Again, thanks so much for hanging out. Hey, I do wanna give you an update In episode 48, I talked about a shift in my content, what I'm doing now, and I did recently notice an uptick in my engagement and my views by focusing more on, on quality overt quantity. Um, and so again, I said in that episode it came down to just a margin or just like a capacity issue. Nick Clason (21:54): Um, and so the fact is, I have noticed that going up, going up and I did talk several episodes back about a posting service kind of tanking my YouTube shorts views, my YouTube shorts views have finally bounced back. And I'm so grateful for it and I think it's because I, I fed it more quality content that people would hopefully interact with and engage with more frequently. So I just wanted to give you that update. I've always told you I'm gonna keep it real with y'all here. And so that's just me trying to do that. Hey again, thanks so much for hanging out and uh, we will talk next time and don't forget, and as always, stay hybrid.
In this episode Nick discusses what to do before, during and after your gigantic summer events of Vacation Bible School (VBS) and Youth Summer Camp. How do you handle social and digital media? How do you promote? And what are the best practices to recap and successfully bring your entire church along for the ride on some of your biggest events of the summer! FREE E-BOOK: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g TIKTOK: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick?lang=en INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/hybridministry/ GOT QUESTIONS? WE GOT ANSWER: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/contact SHOWNOTES RUNNING A DIGITAL AD: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/009 MY CHURCH YOUTH MINISTRY ON SOCIAL MEDIA: https://www.instagram.com/crosscreekstudents/ MY CHURCH ON SOCIAL MEDIA: https://www.instagram.com/crosscreekcolleyville/ TIMECODES 00:00-01:56 Intro - VBS & Camp 01:56-05:31 Classify the Proirity of Your Events 05:31-08:36 Before your Event 08:36-13:17 During Your Event 13:17-15:05 After Your Event 15:05-16:41 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Well, hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. You can head to http://hybridministry.xyz for all of your needs, including transcripts, show notes, and old archived episodes. But today, and in this episode, what I want to talk about is I want to talk about church communications and church social media for VBS and summer camp. How do you handle these two major monumental tent pole style events in your church that you no doubt are having to already probably try and reconcile and figure out? And so we want, I want to talk about what to do before your event, what to do during your event and what to do after your event. Now, here's what you need to know. In most cases, when this episode is dropping here in the middle of June, you were probably already full bore into your pre VBS or pre-camp planning, and I get that. Nick Clason (00:56): And so this episode may be helpful for future, uh, years, future seasons, as well as give you some good ideas or thoughts during your, um, during your event or after your event of ways to handle church communications or church social media. Before we dive in, I wanna remind you that we are on YouTube, head to our YouTube channel to subscribe. We're on TikTok and I wanted to let you know that you can head in either of those places, the website or on YouTube or on TikTok to our show notes where you can get our completely free ebook on how to post to TikTok. It'll also put you on our email newsletter, which we are going to start getting going on a more regular basis. So far it's mostly just been, Hey, sign up for this ebook. Thanks. You're on our email newsletter and we've done nothing with that. Nick Clason (01:40): Um, but we're gonna start sending out some thoughts and ideas here in the future. Uh, noth nothing in the works just yet, but it will be coming. So without any further ado, let's dive in. How do you handle VBS and how do you handle camp in your church? Let's go. All right, so at our church, we have events classified as tier one, tier two, and tier three. Tier one are like the lowest rung events. They may get like an a scrolling announcement and that's it. Tier two is a little higher and then tier three, all right, honestly, I might have that reverse tier one might be the best. Tier three might be like the worst quote unquote. Uh, but both VBS and camp are like the top tier events. And so in your church, I would recommend that VBS and camp also be top level events. Nick Clason (02:26): If you are a senior pastor, uh, that recommendation is for you. If you're a church communications person, that recommendation is for you. If you're a youth pastor or kids pastor listening and you're screaming at your car or your phone or your headphones right now, like, yes, it is the most popular event. Like, you already know that, right? And you're trying to get other people on board with that idea. So I would recommend making it your top tier event and pulling out as many of the stops as it takes in order for you to be able to do that. Now, before we dive into the pre, during and post suggestions for your event, I do just say, if you don't have an event or a communications classification, uh, spelled out in like a handbook of some sorts, let me, let me recommend that that might be your first step because one of the challenges in churches, you, every ministry wants to announce their thing. Nick Clason (03:15): The women's minister wants to announce her thing. The senior adults ministry wants to announce their thing. The college ministry wants to make sure that their thing is announced. The kids' ministry of course, wants VBS announced Student Ministry of courts wants camp announce. How do you announce those? How do you celebrate those when they're over? Like how do you categorize and classify what gets air time? What gets screen time, what gets stage time? And that is where I would say if you have a classification, tier one, tier two, tier three, and then explain what falls under each of those categories, it's helpful, um, so that like people can request those things. And then when, like ladies bunko on a Friday night at, you know, Pauline's house is vying for the top tier event, you as a church communications person, you're gonna have to say, well, that's not a top tier event because it doesn't affect more than 50% of our population. Nick Clason (04:05): Or, you know, whatever the reasons might be. But sit down, work through what those things might be. A good rule of thumb is typically that you want the event or you want the thing that you're announcing that you're, you know, making known. You want it to affect a wide and vast majority of your people. And the reason that VBS does that is because it not only is for all of the kids in your church, but also you're gonna need just about as many volunteers or more than kids in your church to, to step up and serve. And so it is a big wide scale production. The entire church, the entire staff is usually involved in it. It's usually like a non-negotiable. You are not on vacation if you're on church staff during that week, like you are there. And so that's one of the reasons why it is such a top tier event camp is a little trickier, honestly, cuz it probably doesn't hit 50% of your people. Nick Clason (04:53): Uh, but it is a massive financial investment. And it is also probably your student ministry's most, uh, coveted or or biggest like event moment throughout the year. Um, it does also require a good portion, definitely a good portion of your student ministry, student ministry staff, student ministry volunteers. Does it include everybody? Maybe not. Um, but you may. And and that's where, right, like you can have your, you can have your, uh, categorizations, your classifications, but then sometimes like in that case you may fudge that and be like, this is still gonna be tier one. So let's dive into some ideas that you can do promoting and before your event, let's go. Nick Clason (05:33): All right, so if this is a top tier event and before your event starts, I wanna just give you some ideas. Do whatever you can pull all the stops to give it all the publicity that you can. What does that mean? Well, I would say give it all of your in church announcement moments. Give it all of your, um, give it all of your promotion that you can do inside the church. Video announcements, stage announcements, bathroom signs, uh, ev everything that you pull out, church bulletin, everything that you do on a week to week basis for your church. Give it everything that you got. All right. Like put all your gas behind all your effort, energy behind this event. Make sure that everyone in your church at least is very well aware of it. And then from the digital perspective and digital standpoint, how do you do and what do you do beyond that? Nick Clason (06:22): Well, I would recommend that you create for yourself a individual dedicated landing page on your church website. Maybe it's, maybe you buy a domain, maybe it's whatever the theme is, you know, dot com. Like, uh, if your theme is like wet and wild rapids.com. Now if you're doing like VBS in a can or VBS from like a curriculum content place, that that website is probably gonna be taken by another church or just by the, the VBS curriculum provider in general, right? But create some sort of like website and maybe you can get like VBS in yourtown.com or VBS in yourtown.church or something like that, that you can just own and use every single year. And then recycle it and refresh it to match and go along with whatever the theme is. But then when people, um, are searching for VBS in your town, that is hopefully gonna index well in SEO and in Google search for the town that your church is in. Nick Clason (07:18): Uh, but, but create a website. And in my mind, that website can be your centralized hub. Now, you should already have some sort of centralized hub to your church. And so if people do go to your church and then they do wind up going to vbs, you can just simply link it over to that one. It can also be a subset of your page. You already are paying for a church page. You can just do, you know, whatever church.com/vbs, uh, or whatever church.com/camp. But give it its own dedicated page. And in vbs laying a camp, you want to do packing list, you wanna do themes, you want to be, let that be the place where parents can go for daily recaps posts, uh, links out to social links, out to videos, um, packing lists, forms if you're going away. Um, let's see. Uh, like I like to include Spotify playlists, uh, that the kids, uh, have been worshiping to so that people can access that. They can continue to listen to that on their own time. And then also, last but not least, an idea might be put some energy and effort behind some Facebook advertising. All right, I'll link in our episode here on how to run a Facebook ad, uh, with me and Matt from a couple of, uh, almost a year ago at this point. But I'll link the how-to step-by-step process of running, creating, targeting on a Facebook ad. But get some ad power behind your, uh, your two events, VBS and camp. Nick Clason (08:38): All right, what are you gonna do during vbs and what are you gonna do during camp? Right? Like I said, odds are when this video and, uh, podcast drop, you're already there. You don't really have a lot of the, the pre-work probably to do anymore. Or if not, you're, you're, you're minimal. And most of those decisions have already been, it may be too late to create a website. It may be too late, you know, to uh, run an ad. And so during, I would do whatever you can to create daily content for your screens in your room. And so what I mean by that is you're gonna have large projector screens, probably wherever you are, camp vbs, either of those. And if you can have 1, 2, 3, uh, photographers, videographers around the better VBS is probably easier for that cuz you can get volunteer ones, um, camp, you probably need to pay to have that person go and pay them to be there, right? Nick Clason (09:26): You gotta pay for their, their room and board and lodging. And then you also have to pay them to be there. If you're on a bigger church staff, you may have a full marketing department, communications department and they may be able to spare a, a member of their team to go to camp with you for the week. Um, and so you don't have to necessarily pay them cuz they're getting paid by the church, but you do have to pay for them to be there, if that makes sense. But those investments are worth it because capturing those memories, capturing those photos and being able to capture those videos are amazing. And one of the best things I think to do is every single day have a daily recap that you post on your screen. So as soon as the kids come in, the top of the service is a daily recap video. Nick Clason (10:07): They can screen for their team, they can scream for 'em, they see themselves, they can laugh, they can giggle, they can sing along with the songs. I think all those are great, amazing ideas. Um, also I think you should post daily recap stuff for social media. So think about the multiple avenues in which you may wanna post. You may wanna post on, uh, the feed, Facebook feed, Instagram feed in on Instagram. It's gonna be 10 photos. You may also wanna post videos or things in your stories. Um, and you may also wanna post some reels. So one of the things we just got done with VBS this last week at our church, our church was doing a daily recap video with like a voiceover. So one of the people on staff did it, I did it from one of the days cuz we were hosting, um, a sixth grade event called Cross the Creek Week. Nick Clason (10:50): Um, and it's for our incoming, uh, sixth graders that was running in tandem in conjunction with their VBS across the, across the way. Um, but I would do like a recap, Hey, here's the, here's the theme, here's the word of the day, here's the verse. Um, and all the while there was just b-roll back behind of things going on events, uh, footage that they had for, for the event. I also posted on our own individual student ministry channels. The first two days I just did basic recaps. I just like got my phone out and just kind of captured the day, put a video on it, honestly edited it in TikTok or cap cut and just like let it be. And it was super simple text on screen, you know, cross Creek week day one. Uh, super easy way to do that. The, the third day I pulled students aside individually and I asked them, what's your favorite part of this event? Nick Clason (11:38): And I, I just clipped all those together real fast. And then on the fourth and final day we had our missions offering and we offered a contest to our sixth graders that if they were able to meet some sort of goal, um, they could pie a leader of their choice in the face. And so there were six groups, six teams, and five of the six teams met that goal. And so five of the six teams got a pie leaders. And so we captured five pies in the face. If you're on YouTube, check this out, here's my photo of me getting pied in the face. Cuz they did in fact choose me for one of them. Um, but I posted a video all five, like boom, boom, boom, just real fast. And then at the end, the group photo of the five of us being pied. Nick Clason (12:16): And so, um, I captured that. So on social, I would just, uh, look for different ways to capture what's going on. Um, I thought what, what my church was doing with the voiceover for the theme. I thought that was really good, um, and really well done. Um, and so I would, again, so you're looking at the, the challenge with it right? Is that you're looking for, uh, stuff for your screen. So you're looking for 10 80 by 1920, you're also looking for, um, you're also looking, what is that? No, that's 1920 by 10 80, then you're also looking for verticals. So then you're looking for 10 80 by 1920. Uh, so the way you capture it is gonna be different. So if you can have some people like you do social and you do, um, for the screens, vice versa, or you're just gonna have them like, come in, film this way and then come in and film this way, right? Nick Clason (13:02): Whatever the case might be, I would, uh, try and find a way. And the more people you hand have, the more hands you have on deck to help with that, the better for during your event that you can produce on a daily sort of basis. Let's check out what we can do after, all right, after, I would do a big total recap of the whole event. So you've done daily recaps and now you're doing like the big total recap that can just be B roll and uh, maybe voiceover or something like that. One of my favorite things to do is bringing that like camp person, uh, with me. The video person to camp is have them capture eight to 12, uh, testimonies of people, um, student and a couple leaders, and then splice that up together with some good B-roll over it and, um, show it in the service or show it in the, um, like whatever sort of recap event you have, uh, for, for your people. Nick Clason (13:58): Uh, and also post it, you know, to YouTube clip it up verticals so you can post it to social. Um, we did an event, uh, we will do an event after camp this year called camp. So it's the camp recap, um, and we're gonna invite parents to it. And that's what we're gonna show our, our video for, for camp, for returning students, um, and for returning parents to be able to check out what's going on with, uh, what went on at camp, what went on with student ministry, um, and get that also, um, if it's good enough, it'll be able to get played in your big church lobby. Um, and it, what it'll do is it will help your parents. It'll help your donors, it will help anyone who gave fundraisers invested in student ministry. It will give them a picture of what their financial and what their monetary and what their time investment went to. Nick Clason (14:45): And so, uh, this is why I think that capturing these moments digitally, um, and on video is so, so widely important because it just gives such a good picture and it helps bring your church along to what's going on in these monumental events for these, uh, for kid ministry and for student ministry. Well, hey everyone, so glad you hung out. I, uh, am thankful that you stuck around to the end of this video. Hey, I also just want to say like, I hope that you found this helpful and I also hope that you, um, have a great vbs and a great camp this season. Whether you're just finishing it or whether you're jumping into it this week. Um, prayers, blessings on you. I hope that it's amazing for any, uh, if you want to, to preview any of the content we did, I'll link both our, our overall church and, uh, my church's, uh, student ministry, which I run in the show notes. Nick Clason (15:40): You can check both of those out. You can again, head to YouTube to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Um, see the photo of me having Pie in the face. Uh, you can also follow me on TikTok for short video clips. And don't forget show notes and transcripts are available every single week http://hybridministry.xyz. This is gonna be episode number 049. Hey, listen, I'm gonna give you quick heads up. I may say that in some future episodes I lost a bunch of episodes on a hard drive, um, that is currently getting recovered now. Um, and so unfortunately, uh, there may be some, some shuffling. That's mostly a problem I have to deal with. Um, but I'm just letting you know that there be, there may be some clerical errors here in the next couple of weeks of me staying episode, whatever, and then it posting later cuz I currently don't have access to it. So anyway, all that to be said. Without any further ado, glad you're here. Thanks for hanging out. Head into the show notes to get everything you need. And as always, don't forget, stay hybrid.
In this Episode Nick revises and takes another look at his 2023 posting strategy, and he explains the shifts and tweaks he is going to be making moving forward for the second half of 2023. Dive in and take a look at what you can learn and adapt into your church's social media strategy for 2023 and beyond to maximize your reach of Millennials, Generation Z and the future of Generation Alpha. Follow Along on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9pjecCnd8FVFCenWharf2g Come Hang with Nick on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@clasonnick?lang=en Shownotes & Transcripts for this Episode: http://www.hybridministry.xyz/048 SHOWNOTES The Original 2023 Posting Strategy: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/025 FREE E-Book on Posting to TikTok in 2023: https://www.hybridministry.xyz/articles/ebook To see Nick's Church's Social Media in Action: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/crosscreekstudents/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4f4bABQ6RgYF8CHY9G4HKw TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@crosscreekstudents?lang=en TIMECODES 00:00-04:37 Intro 04:37-06:55 Why I'm shifting from posting less content on social media in 2023 06:55-15:30 Reason #1: Quantity to Quality 15:30-18:59 Reason #2: Margin for more variety of Social Media posts 18:59-23:03 In Conclusion TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Show. I am with you as always as your host, Nick Clason. Excited and thrilled to be with you on this episode. And in this episode, I want to give you my updated church social media posting strategy for 2023. Uh, I will link in the show notes if you've been around any length of time, my ultimate, uh, church social media posting strategy. Um, and I, I gave that back, I believe, around Christmas time, um, in 2022. And so here we are. It's May or June, depending on when you're catching this, or maybe even later if you're watching back through the archives, um, or listening back to the archives. Um, but now I want to just give an update and, uh, say, Hey, here's what I have been doing. Here's where I have been, and here's what I now know and here's the direction that I am now gonna go. Nick Clason (01:06): So tune in for that. But before we do, uh, if you haven't already figured out, we are on YouTube. So join us over there. Give us a, like a subscribe, all that stuff. Super duper helps with the algorithm. Um, and we would super appreciate it if any of those things, uh, were available or a thing that you could do for us. Uh, if you're in a podcast catcher, uh, subscribe so that you get this episode for free. It will automatically, uh, download, automatically show up in your feed every single Thursday morning at 4:00 AM when these things drop. And a rating or a review, either on Apple Podcast, on the YouTube podcast, any of those places, Spotify, we are all those places. So we would welcome a rating or a review. Um, it really helps with the algorithm. And, um, I believe in this message. I hope that if you're listening, that you two also believe in this message. Nick Clason (01:57): And if you are finding it helpful, um, getting that word out there in some way, just by helping us give it a rating that helps other people find their show, that helps other people attach to the mission message, um, of what hybrid ministry is all about. If, if you're new, you know, what we're essentially saying is, uh, this is not a all about digital ministry, though. There is a lot of elements of digital ministry in here. Um, and this is not all about in-person ministry. What this really is, is this is a melding of the two, and it's helping kind of fuse where, where the road meets between, um, just in person or just on online or just in digital. And so that's why we're calling it hybrid. It's a both and sort of experience. That being said, most churches are really good with their in-person experiences, um, and they may not be as good with some of their hybrid experiences, and it could be streaming your service. Nick Clason (02:57): That could be what a hybrid experience is. That's what most churches, uh, do. That's, that's what most of their online or digital strategy is, is like, well, we streamed the service, COVID forced us to buy a camera, stick it in the back of the room and stream the service. And that's all well and good. And if you're doing that, I'd recommend continue doing it. But there are many more ways, I think, to enter into that space, uh, and to offer more than just your Sunday morning experience to your church members, your church attenders, and your perspective people. So again, thank you for joining us. One of the major players right now in 2023. Um, and this will still bear itself out and you're about to see and hear in my updated church, uh, media posting strategy in 2023 is short form, vertical based video. And I have created for you a 100% free ebook. Nick Clason (03:49): I would love for you to click the link in the show notes and head there and download your very own copy of it. Uh, it's just a way for you or a church social media manager or an intern or a college student to grab a phone and start creating tos completely free and from scratch. It is an ebook that we created step by step, walking you through. It's titled, have I Already Ruined My Church TikTok account? And we would just love for you to check that out and use it, and hopefully that will be to your benefit and your advantage as you're trying to lean into more and more of the hybrid space here in 2023 in an effort to reach Gen Z and millennials and beyond. So again, without any further ado, glad you're here. Thanks for joining us. Let's dive in to my updated church social media posting strategy in 2023. Nick Clason (04:38): The day was May 7th, 2023. That's the day I finally shifted my strategy from before. So a little bit of historical context so that you understand. Like I said, if you wanna go back and listen, drop the link to that in the show notes, check that out. But I have been posting three short form vertical video based content pieces every single day for five days a week. The reason I choose the five days a week thing is because I'm attempting to have rhythm and rest in a Sabbath and a weekend. And so I don't post on Friday and Saturday as a a member of church staff. Sun Sunday is for sure a working day, right? Um, and so therefore I just, I choose Friday and Saturday as my two days off. It works pretty well. So I post Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. That's why really, that's really the rhyme or reason works well with my schedule. Nick Clason (05:32): Um, and I would recommend that, like, I would recommend not overdoing it on your days off, because the, the reality is social media is relentless. It is a never ending beast, and it is always hungry. And so the more that you give to it, the more it's gonna want and the more it's gonna need. And so unless you have boundaries, there is really no, uh, stopping to it. And so it's up to you to create the boundaries to stay healthy, to stay in a spot that is gonna keep you mentally strong and all those types of things. So anyway, I've been posting three times a day, five days a week, and I just now shifted down and this is my new strategy. It's not earth shattering, and it's not a big shift. Okay? I've shifted down from three a day to two a day. So let's talk about what caused and what brought me to that shift. Nick Clason (06:19): It's multifaceted. There are two main points, and in the next couple sections, I'm gonna break down point number one, I'm gonna break down point number two. Um, but all of this is, while it's not monumental, it is a slight shift. And so if you have been following my recommended strategy, I will explain why I still think that there is benefit and merit to the three posts a day versus maybe the two posts a day. That is honestly ultimately gonna be up to you and up to your call. But before we do that, let me dive into my two-pronged reason for shifting from three a day to two a day. Let's go. Reason number one, why I am making this shift is I am hoping that shifting from posting three day to two a day, it's gonna take my weekly from 15 down to 10. Um, and there's already a rhythm baked in what I'm doing. Nick Clason (07:12): Like, for example, we're pre-filing all of our message content on video. And so out of that, I pull three, uh, shorts, three tos every single week, um, that are short message clips, um, Brady Shearer and the, and the people at Nucleus call it social sermons. Um, but essentially we're clipping a, a message with hopefully what I would consider to be a good hook, whether it is or not, I don't know. I'm still growing in that skill, I would say. And then at the end, we're pushing them to go consume longer sections of our YouTube, um, or podcast content. Uh, and so hopefully they find it and then they go, they go discover and, and become, you know, more engaged, more entrenched in what we're doing on social media. Anyway, all that to be said, right? Like, I am trying to, so, so there's three right there. Nick Clason (08:02): Okay, so outta my 10. Now I already have three. I only have to come up with seven more. And so ultimately I'm trying to shift, uh, creating quantity content to quality content. Now, I, I have not been trying to produce crap. Like, that's not been my goal, right? By any means. Like, I'm trying to do good work. I'm trying to be thoughtful, I'm trying to be creative, but there's just something about three a day that just feels relentless. And yesterday, May 7th was actually the very, and that May 7th, as of this recording, this will drop multiple weeks later. But, um, May 7th, when I first posted this, like, that was my very first day of posting only two a day. And it, it felt different. Like, I don't know it, you know, you might think like, what are you talking about? Like, it's only one different, like, I know, but it just, it, there's something about it, it just did. Nick Clason (08:48): And, uh, the illustration that I would make is I'm trying to produce really good quality content now, like part of the quantity, um, has been a little bit of an antiquated, I think, algorithm thing. And by antiquated, I mean, like a couple months ago, in social media land that's antiquated. You had to show up a lot and you had to show up frequently. You had to show up often. And if you can do three a day, if you can do quality content multiple times a day, you should. And I would still a hundred percent recommend it, but I just know my personal margin, like was not really allowing that anymore. Um, I was ha I was struggling with coming up with good ideas. And in like one of my original iterations of our plan, I've told you before, I work as a youth pastor. Nick Clason (09:30): I'm on a team. I'm one of three on our team. I have a director. There's me, I'm like the, the social media guru. And then we have, uh, another associate on our team. And, and she's a female. And so like the two of them, like I I, I dished out some social media stuff early on, like, Hey, you take three and you take three and I'll take the remainder. And they each both struggled with it for different reasons. Um, and, and so I pulled us back together and I said, what if we filmed some stuff together? We got all of us on camera at the same time. Instead of it just being like my talking head than your talking head, than your turn for your talking head. And they loved that idea. It was easier for them, but that dumped a lot more of the editing load back on my plate. Nick Clason (10:12): And so as a result of that, that's why I'm making this shift. The other thing is, you, you're in grow mode. I think when you're starting from scratch and you're doing a lot a day, we've, we've grown a lot. Go back to the last episode, I'll link it in the show notes. I give you my progress support. We have a fair bit of followers, we have a fair bit of subscribers in all four of the places. And so I think we've established ourselves. So now I wanna start creating really good content because that is the other thing that the recent TikTok algorithm has made very clear, is that like they are now going for good solid quality content. It's not just about hopping on a trend or a sound. And if you're on that sound, you can ride that wave to a lot of views, a lot of subscribers like that just doesn't work anymore. Nick Clason (10:56): I mean, and you saw that born out in some of my most recent like deep dives into analytics, is that like, we're not catching those waves the way that we were hoping that we would. And so therefore we have to not just try to rely on good cap cut templates or good trending sounds and funny dances. We have to actually create quality content that people are going to want to see, watch and consume. That's gonna be the path forward. And so to do that, I'm trying to pull back the number of, of posts I do a day so that I can spend more time on quality content. Right now, I am doing a series, you can check it out. It's at Cross Creek Church right now. I'm hoping it'll change to at Cross Creek students, but TikTok and name changes. So, um, but I'm doing a series, um, on all of our, our short form video platforms called Grow. Nick Clason (11:47): And i, I want to give bible and Bible study hack ideas. And so I'm opening with a hook with, it's all gonna be like bot ai voice, uh, filtered. And so it says like, this Bible study hack is an absolute game changer. That's how it starts. And then I post screenshots from the Bible app, or I post, uh, screenshots or downloaded images from other things. Uh, like the one today is gonna be about the, uh, printing press and how we now have access to the Bible everywhere. The early church didn't have that, right? We have it now in our pockets on our devices. Um, I also post one about like second Timothy three 16, how God's word is, uh, God breathe and useful for teaching, re repeating, correcting and training and righteousness and how that's gonna benefit to us. And so break down some of those verses give them hacks in the you version Bible app. Nick Clason (12:42): So that's gonna require some more effort on the prep side before I just get out there and start farting out, right? Some, like, some some TikTok. So I'm trying to put in some good thoughtful preparation, and then once I do the prep, then I have to turn around and edit it. So I'm, I'm really seeing a lot of these things from start to finish. In a lot of cases, if you're like a church social media manager, you might just be on the editing portion of it. And so you have the time and the bandwidth. Um, if you have content creators, pastors, whatever you're gonna call them on the backend doing the work, great. Like keep, keep letting them pump that stuff out. And the more you can produce, the better. If you have a good strategy and can post more than five times a day and you're handing it off some people on their days off and whatever, like yes, yes to all of that, right? Nick Clason (13:29): But at the end of the day, like, I am making this move to just try and build in a little bit more, uh, margin for me. And so, um, like I said, I'm, I'm trying to, um, in addition to creating good content, I'm trying to become a little bit more aggressive on my edits too. Um, spending more time on my edits, edits that are gonna be, um, good and stop the scroll and grab people's attention and all those types of things. So all of that just takes more time. And the more time I have, uh, is gonna be used to create 10 really good pieces of content every single week that I may have to edit every single one of them in like Adobe Premier Pro or my video editing software of choice. Um, as opposed to just pulling some random quick ones out off my phone, which is what I, I have been doing for some of the filler pieces. Nick Clason (14:18): There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, quite honestly, on my personal YouTube shorts, I posted, uh, one of those Jonas Brothers filters a couple weeks ago. Like, don't get stressed, we're gonna get figured out. Oh, deep conversations at the Waffle House. You might have seen it if you've been on TikTok, if not, you're welcome for that glorious singing in your ear holes. But I posted that and it's got like 53,800 views on YouTube and it helped drive my subscribers up over like 30 overnight. So you never know when one of those is just gonna like catch. And quite honestly, I posted it a week and a half ago and yesterday was when I saw my subscribers just freaking skyrocket, like outta nowhere. And so those still play a part. Those still work and those still happen, you know, every now and then. And so, um, leave space for some of those good cap cut templates, I would say for some of those good training audios, um, so that you can ride some of those waves cuz that that stuff does still happen. Nick Clason (15:19): So that's reason number one. I'm, I'm hoping to, uh, shift from quantity to quality. I'm hoping to buy back some, some time and some margin just in my working flow and schedule. Reason number two is I would like to create additional quality content that's not just video based. Now, hear me right when I say that you're gonna be, like you said, video was king and it is, and it, it a hundred percent still is. Everything we've posted on social media since I've been at my church has essentially been video based and I love it. Um, but I , i I will liken it to my current rhythm with video is, uh, one day, there was a day when I was working a couple years ago and I had to have a really tough conversation with a resident of mine. We ended up, I believe this day, or maybe it was a couple days later, uh, letting him go and, um, I needed to sit down and create for him what we call in our organization, a p I p a performance improvement plan. Nick Clason (16:19): He needed to sign off on that p i p and if he didn't like see it through to the end, we had, we had to and were going to let him go. Um, but my schedule that day was stacked. I had like two liter lunches, um, or a liter coffee and a liter lunch. I had several other meetings filtered in there. And so my boss at the beginning of the day sent me, um, his like templatized, p i p and maybe one that he'd used for someone else before. And by the time I got to that meeting, I literally swapped out the name that he sent me on his, with my, my residence's name and flew into the meeting five minutes late, slapped it down and had the conversation. And, uh, I told my boss about it later and he's like, that's not the way to have that conversation. Nick Clason (17:03): And I knew that, right? I just didn't have the margin in my schedule that was necessary that day. There was no other gaps, there was no other breaks to make that happen. And in a lot of the same way, the three a day is very aggressive. It's an aggressive growth strategy and it's caused me to not have any additional margin because I do want to lean into some carousel posts on Instagram that are more like learning based. Um, and that's gonna just take some time with me sitting down in Photoshop, building some of those out, thinking through them. And so all of this really, I would say at the end of the day is, is to build out a more robust social media strategy. One that is including good, strong and frequent quality content, short form video based things, but also has some supplemental content happening like on our Instagram feeds and stuff like that. Nick Clason (17:54): And so this isn't because Instagram, uh, is not working on reels anymore, it very much still is, we're still catching fire on there. Um, you know, I I just have a bigger vision and more things I want to do. So more feed posts more, I would like to do more longer form YouTube videos that aren't just messages. Like I would like to start creating some classes and, and fun things like that. But like, I don't have the margin for it. Some podcasts that are more regular, like I would like to do some of those. I don't have the margin for those. And so the, the more things, more a more fleshed out parent Facebook strategy, like, uh, any of that stuff I don't have the time for right now because of what I'm doing with, with Rios. And so this is hopefully gonna help me take a step back on the video slightly. Nick Clason (18:39): I, I'm, I'm, I, it's still king and so I don't want to abandon it at all, but I just wanna take a slight step back, focus on my editing and my content and then focus on my additional pieces of content, additional avenues of social media, um, as we trudge forward. So that is why I am shifting here in 2023. So ultimately, in conclusion, this is a margin move for me. I gave it a fair shake, an eight to nine month runway. We evaluated it, we've done that in recent episodes. Um, we took a couple accounts from zero and, and complete scratch to where they are today. And that the, the aggressive three times a day vertical video posting strategy helped get us there. Um, and frankly, I am in a church that, you know, when I, when I dropped my strategy for you, I was taking it from a multi-site megachurch with people from all over the Chicagoland area that called our church home and was still very much in the midst Andros of C O V I D or at least like living in the wake of that to a church that is in Texas in the conservative Bible belt, where they very much live out an in-person experience. Nick Clason (19:49): And so those were not apples to apples by any means. And so I was in a church, has a very in-person, um, environment and strategy. And so leaning into a hybrid ministry in there, still necessary for generation Z, not necessarily because it's like a Bible belt, you know, thing. But Gen Z still appreciates and uses hybrid ministry. We've even seen it here. People have appreciated it and liked it, but it's been a shift and it's, it's not the norm for what you would normally see in Texas. And so, uh, I, I say all of this to say like, I only wanna point out how big and how long and how far that hill was that we have been taking. And now as we step back, as we do deep dive into some analytics, it is causing us to shift ever so slightly. And that is why. Nick Clason (20:38): And so I hope that you, um, you know, I hope that you can take my context and compare it to yours and like, is this true for us as well or do we have the margin to continue to keep going with what we've been doing? Like I just want to let y'all know and be honest with you, like, this is where I am, this is where I'm coming from and I, um, always just wanna shoot it straight with you. Like here's where I am, here's where I'm coming from and here's how it's going. And uh, I will always do that and I will never fabricate or lie or say one thing's going better than another. Like this is just what it is and how it is. And, and this is where we are today as it stands. And so when I make another shift, you guys will be the first to hear about it. Nick Clason (21:24): Cuz I love to workshop it. And, and part of the reason why is y'all help give me a community, uh, for me to like, filter out some of my thoughts. I'll make shifts. But like sitting down to prep this podcast helped me figure out the, these are my two main reasons why I'm making this shift and that makes me more articulate in my job or with my boss or whatever the case might be. So I appreciate it, it's cathartic for me. I hope it's helpful for you. If it is, please drop us a rating, a review, all those things. Grab the free ebook, that will subscribe you to our email newsletter list. And it'll also give you a freebie on your own that you can use and help. Um, moving forward for a social media posting guide and strategy. Um, as always, we are appreciative of you. If you found this episode helpful, please consider sharing it with a friend, a family member, a coworker, a grandparent, your cat. I don't care. But sharing really helps. So if that's something that you have the margin or are able to do, please consider sharing it. We love you guys. Thanks for sticking around until the end and until always, that's not how I do it. Let's, I butchered it. Nick Clason (22:35): How do I say it? as always. No, don't forget, this is it. This is it. That was the worst ending in the history of mankind. And you know what, I'm keeping it in there. I face planted in front of you. Not everything's perfect. That's okay. We're gonna show the realness. Don't forget. And as always, stay hybrid.
SUMMARYIn this episode, Nick finishes up from part 1 of his conversation with Kerry Ray, director of editing and publishing at YM360. Kerry talks about the limitations of digital ministry and how to best navigate some of the new challenges of digital ministry. In addition Kerry shares some of the resources that are available through YM360 for youth pastors who are in the trenches doing ministry.Follow along at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministryOr any and all other resources at http://www.hybridministry.xyzFor resources from YM360 head to http://www.ym360.comSHOWNOTESYM360YM360http://www.ym360.comMINISTRY TO PARENTShttps://ministrytoparents.com/MY YOUTH MINhttps://myyouthmin.com/TIMECODES00:00-03:01 Intro03:01-05:41 The Limitations of Digital Ministry and How to use what we learned from our time in COVID05:41-11:10 How do we show up to a place teenagers are native to?11:10-22:00 If you had a crystal ball, how does digital and hybrid ministry need to adjust as we go forward?22:00-26:55 What resources are available to Youth Pastors?26:55-27:53 Final encouragement from Kerry to ministry leaders27:53-31:07 OutroTRANSCRIPTNick Clason (00:01):What is up everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. And hey, if you were here for episode, uh, 19, the most recent one that we dropped, it was a part one of an interview with my great friend, um, Kerry Ray, who was on staff at YM 360. He, after 30 years of work inside the local church, has decided to step into more of a role where he's, um, serving the youth pastor, um, and people who are in the trenches doing ministry. So not only does he come with a wealth of personal hands on, boots on the ground, kind of firsthand experience and knowledge of reaching teenagers, um, and seeingDigital Ministry, Contact Work, Relational Ministry, Discipleship, Student Ministry, Youth Ministry, META Church, Streaming Church, TikTok, Social Media life before digital was introduced. Uh, the way he puts it was, um, I'm a digital immigrant versus now doing ministry to people who are digital natives. And so, uh, we're gonna dive into part two of this interview, but I would recommend if you have not heard, go back to part one because he introduces this idea, um, that's not, you know, it's not from him alone, right? Nick Clason (01:08):But like, he introduces this idea of a thing called contact work. And contact work is basically the basic premise of going to where people are as opposed to hoping that they will always just come to us, right? If we build it, if it's so beautiful, if it's so shiny and amazing, they will come to us. So he introduces that idea. Um, and now we're gonna kind of explore is that idea of ministry possible, uh, to do digitally. And I would argue that him and I agree for the most part, but I think that, um, we have to sort of like nuance our way into it. Which honestly, it's an interesting dichotomy. And even in having the conversation, I think is how most people feel about digital ministry. I think at a knee jerk reaction, there's this, oh no, you can't do that digitally because discipleship and ministry is best done life on life. Nick Clason (02:00):And for the record, I agree with that. Like, I want people that I can physically touch, hug, like sit and eat a knee, have a cup of coffee. Like, here's a great example. Right now, my wife is gone. She's, uh, visiting her mom back home in Ohio. I'm in Texas. We have a relationship. We've video or FaceTimed four times this week, uh, or four times a day, I should say. Um, every day that she's been gone, we've texted late at night, like, we have a relationship, but good grief, like, I wanna give my wife a hug. You know what I mean? Like, there's, it's obviously better together. However, my cell phone is making it possible to remain in contact with my wife. And, and so I think like when you put it that way, you're like, well, yeah, of course. Like, so then how do we add some intentionality? Nick Clason (02:47):And we talk about safety, some parameters. What does it look like, um, to do ministry in this way? So I'm really excited for you to check out part two. Again, if you haven't checked out part one, go back and listen to it. Um, and without any further ado, here is part two of our conversation. I mean, honestly, the entire basis right of this podcast is, is what's called the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Because I think what we've learned, at least the way I felt, and I was a part Kerry of an attractional based church during C and so we put together, in my opinion, the best youth ministry online experience that existed. But no one cared because the contact work didn't exist. And so it's, but then what happened right, was this argument, this tug and this tug and pull, like in c everyone was forced to go all the way digital. Nick Clason (03:37):And so we all did, we all went all in to the best of our abilities. And then once the restrictions started to lift, the pendulum swung almost so hard because we all saw the effects of not being together and how valuable that is. And so it almost swung like, let's, let's throw the baby out with the bath water and all the good things that we learned from that time period from being fully digital and having, you know, our like proverbial hands tied behind our back. Like I, so I went to a place where a, um, I was a campus student pastor. I didn't speak. Um, and we didn't speak even pre covid. We had a video speaker, um, every week cuz there's universal across all campuses. And I can give you my opinions about that later. But that was, that was one hand tie behind my back. Nick Clason (04:26):The second hand tie behind my back was that I wasn't allowed to meet with students. So Ty, what I feel like both hands tie behind my back, all right, now you're the youth pastor here, go do youth ministry. And I was like, how? But that literally forced me right? To just rethink everything. And for literally six months to nine months, I had to navigate that world with both a handstand behind my back. And maybe that is what, and as I'm talking this out with you, maybe that's what has prompted my passion around this because I realized there's some good things you can do digitally, but it can't replace what's done physically. And so I think we gotta find that, that hybrid I think contact, I think, yeah, yeah. At its core happens in person. But think about, you know, when you started out in ministry, you couldn't grab a phone and text that student and be like, Hey, how'd that test go? Nick Clason (05:20):You didn't have that. You had to rely on a physical meetup, the football game, youth group, whatever, to make that happen. And so we, we can live in that digital space and bow borrow off the equity that we have from what happens in person. And so how do we enter into there effectively, like you said, cuz that's what Jesus did. He showed up. We can now show up in ways that teenagers are, to your point, native to how do we do that? What are the, what, what does that look like? I think we're all trying to figure that out. Kerry Ray (05:53):I, I think we are A couple of things. You, you said one I wanted to say, I don't know if your, your listeners understand or know about you that you walked into a church as a youth pastor, right? As this whole thing started, or that whole thing started. And so immediately you were trying, you, you, they didn't even know who you were. So you were trying to introduce yourself in a digital way, uh, to a group of people who didn't know you at all. Um, and that was interesting. Um, but the other thing you said, um, you mentioned about, um, we snapped back, the pendulum swung back. Mm-hmm. , can we be honest? I think the reason why the pendulum swung back so quickly is because we were so many people were terrible at one of it, at one side of it. Yeah. And it was failing so badly and they were terrible at it. Kerry Ray (06:40):Well, it's not familiar. The second well, yeah. And the second that that ended, they they run back to what, you know Yeah. As fast as you can, because I'm terrible at this. So we did, you threw the baby out with the bath water because you were like, one, I'm not good at it. Two, um, nobody likes to do stuff. They're not good. Right. So I'm not good at it. I don't wanna do it. I just wanna get as far away from it as possible. Let's go back to what we know when it was working. Let's go back to the stuff that I was confident in doing. Let's just run back to that. But if Covid showed us anything, it is, there needs to be, to your point, a hybrid. There needs to be both. And there are students that are out there that we can, you know, need to say hello to digitally. Kerry Ray (07:22):We do need to learn how to utilize that digital space better. Um, and this is another thing I was thinking as you were, as you were saying that is, you know, in the physical contact work mm-hmm. , there were boundaries and rules. Um, uh, especially in ministry. You know, you, you had, there's, there were certain things you could do and you, there were certain things you put boundaries on and said, Hey, contact work means this. It does not mean, you know, driving a female or even a male by yourself and go, oh yeah, that's contact work. No, that's, that's potential jail time. That's what that is. . Um, so you don't, you don't do those things. I think in digital. Um, you mentioned texting a student, Hey, how'd that test go? Mm-hmm. . Um, I know with our small group leaders, they were very nervous mm-hmm. and still are. Kerry Ray (08:12):Cause we don't know the boundaries. Um, do you text a student? Is that okay? Um, because what if their parent is not cool with, um, you know, a 35 year old texting a 14 year old mm-hmm. . Um, how was your day? Um, you know, that can, that can kinda be weird. Uh, so there are some boundaries there. Do you hang out? You know, I can go to a football, I can go to a middle school football game and I could be there as a student pastor and I can see my kids that I see, I can meet their friends. This, there again, young life does a great job of this. You know, I can be intentional about meeting people. I'm in a public space. There's other people around. Yep. That is very different than me logging into Call of Duty intentionally and playing in a chatroom of, you know, a bunch of 14 year old guys and girls that I don't know. Nick Clason (09:06):Yeah. Kerry Ray (09:06):That's, that's different. And maybe the digital immigrant in me has that trigger goes, this is weird. Yeah. Uh, maybe that's the digital immigrant in me versus the digital native, but there's some oddity there. And so we've gotta figure out not just a balance of how do we, how do we engage that way, but what are the boundaries? What are the best practices? What are the safety protocols that need to be in place in a digital format to where you're not the weirdo, you're not the weird old guy or the weird old girl hanging out, you know, in a chatroom or in a, in a digital space. Um, the internet has been great, but it's also shown us that it's highly dangerous and that it is full of predators. And not to say that the football, the middle school football game stands, that there's not predators out there as well sitting in those, in those bleachers. Kerry Ray (10:02):But it's, society sees it differently in a digital space. Um, because right now that is where a lot of the ugly stuff is happening. Um, so all that to say is we don't need to abandon it. We do need to be careful. Mm-hmm. , we do need to engage, but to do it with boundaries and guidelines in place. And we need to, if you're in the church world, you need to set your people up well because they don't know. And they're trying to do what you're, you're telling them, Hey, do contact work. Hey, engage, Hey, be a part of these, these students' lives. And they do. But you gotta give them the boundaries of the protocol so that they know and they have confidence in how to interact in that digital space. One, they're already digital native more than likely. And two, it's an awkward space that they're unfamiliar with. And three, they need to feel safe. Just like if you sent them into a football game and said, Hey, I want you to hit at least one football game. Here's what you do in that space. Here's what you don't do in that space. You need to do the same thing with them in a digital context. Nick Clason (11:10):Yeah. So, from the seat you're sitting in now, um, what, if anything, like do you see about how covid, digital, hybrid, any of that stuff, how is it influencing and impacting ministry leaders? Cause you're sitting in a unique seat where you are helping serve the type of person that you were for the last 30 years. So what are you noticing? What are you hearing? What are the pain points? What are people asking? What are people trying to figure out? What are things that you're seeing? And then what do you maybe envision or see as, uh, a future maybe, maybe in like a year, but also maybe in the next five, 10 years of ministry, student ministry and all that stuff? Kerry Ray (11:55):Yeah. What I'm seeing is I get to speak to youth pastors in multiple states, in multiple denominations. Um, people who have been doing it for 20 plus years, 10 years. I was at Arkansas this past weekend and a room of, you know, 25, 30 guys and girls, um, who do youth ministry. And, um, there were some that were full-time. There were some that were, you know, part-time. There were some that were bivocational. Um, there were some that had been doing this for 10 years, eight years, 20 years. And then a couple of the couple of them are like, yeah, this is month three. Yeah. Um, , you just go, woo. Um, but I think they're all struggling with the same thing, which is what we've been talking about this whole time, is how to balance, um, how to juggle the digital aspect versus the physical aspect and, and what is contact work and how to, how do I create things that people wanna be a part of that students wanna be a part of? Kerry Ray (12:55):How do I program? Um, you know, a lot of 'em are just trying to figure out, how do I do any of this? I'm just winging it. How do I get support and momentum and, um, those pieces without even the digital piece involved. Um, but yeah, that's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing people struggling. I'm seeing people trying to navigate this return from shut down to non shut and the, and the damage that has been done in the, in, in that. And I am seeing people try to figure out how to engage in a new way, a new group of people, um, being, you know, this, this group of, um, of Gen Z students who are still around, and then this incoming crop of generation alpha students who are currently, uh, sixth, seventh. And depending on the age, you've got a couple eighth graders that are young ones mm-hmm. . Kerry Ray (13:48):Um, but just trying to, how, how do I, how do I engage them? How do we, how do we, um, provide them with, with the things they need? And there again, I know this has nothing to do with digital, but what I'm really seeing the most, uh, in the youth ministry space is the audience has shifted so much in that culturally it's a different world. Um, there's a lot more questions. They're open to a lot more things. They, um, and, and pastors are trying to figure out, for example, you know, how do you teach in a ministry context? How do you teach a teenager about the word of God? Which is absolute truth when the generation doesn't believe in such a thing is absolute truth. Mm-hmm. , how do you do that? Um, how do you, you know, how do you, so many youth pastors are preaching about characters in the Bible or things that were happening scripturally. Kerry Ray (14:45):And they'll say, you know, well, well, Moses, so and so and so and so and so and so as if the people listening to them know who that is, is without stopping to say, let me tell you who this is, because they're, again, the nuns in os they were raised by a group of parents who didn't grow them up in, in scripture. So they don't know. And so our, our mistake is, or the mistakes I'm seeing, or pastors speaking in a, in a phrase like, say, like I said, well, Moses, you know Moses, they don't, yeah. They're like, yeah, the guy with the boat, they're like, no, that's Noah Nick Clason (15:16):, Kerry Ray (15:17):But we have to pause. We have to slow down and teach mm-hmm. . And I think we have to do that. I think technology, um, Instagram, social media, TikTok, I, I love, I love, and I hate what I'm seeing right now on TikTok. Um, and if you're not on TikTok, you need to at least look at it. Mm-hmm. . Um, if I can encourage, if a youth pastor's listening, if I can encourage you, I know it's, you know, it's the devil. I get it. But at least be familiar with it. Yeah. At least engage. And I know your church probably has a stance on it. And, and I'll warn you, there's things, you're gonna see some stuff on there. That algorithm is incredible. Um, you only need to pause for a second and it'll feed you more of that. Um, Nick Clason (15:59):So yeah, listen, here's the best TikTok hack, by the way. If you start it and they start feeding you stuff you don't want, hold your, hold the video down, click, not interested, do that two or three times and it's gone forever. Like I'm telling you, can, you can game that algorithm, uh, the way each can, the way you'll, you want, Kerry Ray (16:17):I'll see a better TikTok hack. Don't sign up for an account Nick Clason (16:21): or Kerry Ray (16:22):That, cause that way every time you, every time you log off the, turn the app off, you turn it back on, you get the most stuff. It's new every time. Um, but what, what I was gonna say about, about TikTok was some of the greatest things I'm seeing is, is student ministries, youth pastors, pastors utilizing that technology and teaching theology. Yeah. And, and, and, um, you know, there's a couple guys that do like the, you know, one minute sermon, um, and stuff that excellent content mm-hmm. this, the negative side of that is I'm seeing that the same thing with terrible theology mm-hmm. . Um, and I would say that group of people are using it very well. And our students, there, again, keep in mind your kids don't know the difference. They don't. Yeah. Um, and so they're watching things on TikTok that are, let's call it, you know, 30% true. Kerry Ray (17:22):Uh, and then it just kinda hangs, hangs hangs the right or hangs the left and, and goes crazy. Um, you know, I watched somebody the other day talking about, you know, Jesus, you know, Jesus's name wasn't Jesus. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, good. This is good. And then they kept going. They kept going. They like, so Jesus wasn't really God, he was just the, and I'm like, oh, no, no, because it started off, it started off really strong and going, yeah, this is good. This is good. Let's teach them these things. You know, there weren't really three wise men as far as we know. There were, there were wise men that showed up. Great. Great. So, you know what they were, they were really these things. They were Illuminati No, they were not Illuminati. You know, just, just crazy stuff. Um, where do I think it's going? Kerry Ray (18:08):I I definitely think, you know, the, the, those of us who are digital, uh, immigrants we're aging out. Um, more and more digital natives. Um, that's the way the world works, right. You know, more kids are being born more, more babies and children are being handed iPhones and iPads as pacifiers and are growing up with it. And that is a thing. And it can be good or it can be bad. And, and I guess my biggest takeaway would be, or challenge would be this, don't build a moat. There's no mo big enough. Whether you're talking to parents or whether you're trying to do your own ministry piece. Don't build a moat and try to protect everybody from technology. That's, it's foolish. You're not, that's, that's not a winnable battle. No. Um, I think what we need to focus on is redeeming that culture and redeeming technology and saying, how can I take what is, what is, how can I take who these students are and meet them where they are versus where we wish they were? Kerry Ray (19:11):Um, meet them where they are and redeem this technology and utilize it in a way for the glory of God and for, for the, for the right reasons. The right purposes. And try to try to really point to him using technology and use it to reach students. Use it to disciple students. Use it to, um, bring and share Jesus to students who may never, ever step foot in your church door, but they may be scrolling through TikTok and just happened to come across a video where you talk about this God man who loved you so much that he gave himself for you on your behalf, so that you could have eternal life. And it may, here's what I find interesting about students in this generational speech that we're in right now. There's no reason for a teenager to show up to the things you're doing. Kerry Ray (20:05):Mm-hmm. , there's just no reason for it. Yeah. But they still are. They're showing up to these things. And it's not because you got a great Instagram account. They're showing up to these things because they have an internal intrinsic curiosity about spiritual things that I believe that God has placed in them from creation to seek him out. Yeah. And they're showing up because that curiosity is itching and they're trying to figure out a way to scratch it. And they're just curious enough to still listen and use, use Instagram and TikTok all you want, but use it to scratch that curiosity in them that is God given. And let God be God and God do the things. We don't save people anyway. We never have, we haven't done it physically and we're not gonna do it digitally. Um, that's not, that's not for us, but utilize the, the tools that we have in front of us to continue to do the things that we are called to doop. Kerry Ray (21:06):Um, so yes, technology is out there. It is, it is doing its thing. Um, don't run from it. Don't build a mote to protect people from it, whether they're your own kids or not. Utilize it. Teach people how to use it. Teach people how to be safe with it. Set your volunteers up to utilize it. Well give them boundaries. Help them to, to do this thing well. Um, you know, show them how to do it and show your church how to do it. Show all the digital immigrants how to do it. Um, and lead, lead there. Lead from lead from the backseat. Um, especially if you're watching this, listen to this. Sorry. If you're listening to this as a, as a digital, uh, native, help people learn how to do this and to do it right. And to do it well. And not to be afraid of it. Cause I think the biggest thing is fear. Um, but yeah. Mean, sorry, man. I got, I've got on my soapbox for a minute, but Nick Clason (21:58):No, that was really good. I just, that was a great, that was a great place to land it. Why don't you, uh, you know, this has been a very youth ministry centric conversation, which admittedly so, and we, we let you guys know that at the beginning. Tell 'em about, uh, everything, you know, what, how can they engage with stuff over at YM 360. What are some of the resources that you, you all are producing to help, to help people in this space right now? Kerry Ray (22:20):Yeah. For, um, we, we create things. Our, our whole point is to make the things, to make youth ministry youth pastors wear a lot of hats. It's, it's hard. Um, I told those guys in girls in Arkansas, uh, this past weekend, youth ministry's harder than it's ever been. And it's not easy. Yeah. But we have more opportunity than we've ever had had because there are so many blank canvases out there who don't know. There's not a lot of, um, church baggage in teenagers right now, cuz they never went. Um, they read about it, they see it online, but, you know, they see people deconstructing and talking about it, but they don't have it themselves. A lot of them, because they, they haven't engaged yet. So, gosh, there's so much out there. Um, and why do sixty.com if you wanna check that out? Uh, there's tons of resources, uh, for you. Kerry Ray (23:10):There's, we post blog articles every single Monday. You can check out that kinda stuff. Um, I think that the, the best things that you can be a part of right now that we work on is we have two big platforms that we put out every month. New content for one of those is called ministry parents.com, ministry to parents.com. And it's not for parents, it's for you to help parents. So if you're in ministry, uh, and you're trying to help equip parents to be better parents in their home and to be, and to help those no e s's raise students in a way that points them to Jesus, um, we provide you with all the stuff. We do it all for you. Uh, we write all your emails, we, we curate all the content for you. It's really just point and click and paste and send. Kerry Ray (24:00):And we do it all for you. Uh, all of us know that we're supposed to partner with parents. None of us really know what that means. Um, and so and so we're trying to figure it out. And you know, what usually keeps us as student pastors from it is either we don't have kids of our own. And we go, well, I'm not legit. There's no way I'm gonna look at a parent and go, you know what you should do with that 14 year old? Cause they're gonna look at me and go, yeah, you tell me about that buddy. Or by the time we are legitimate, we realize that curating content for parents as far as what they need is a full-time job. Yep. And we can't do all that. And so that's what ministry parents does. Ministry parents.com. And then we just launched a brand new platform for training and development of youth pastors, um, that talks about all of this kind of stuff on the regular, every month we provide you with, gosh, 2026 plus pieces of content that's brand new every month that talks about everything from volunteers to parents, to technology, to other disruptors that are in that you're dealing with. Kerry Ray (25:04):Um, the whole point of it is to help you grow, lead and thrive in ministry. It is, it is all about developing you as a person. Um, you could check that out as well. It is my youth min.com, my youth min.com. It is, it is worth it. It's worth checking that out. Um, all those are subscription based stuff, but it's, it's not expensive. So whether you're full-time, part-time, uh, big church, small church, um, multi-site, multi staff, or you're flying solo, um, it is something that you can utilize. Um, and anytime, you know, my I am available, like I said, I tell people all the time, let me be that guy. Let me be the person that when you're struggling and you need somebody to talk to, when you are excited, when you're new and, and going, I don't know if this is the right way to do this or not, uh, I'm available. Kerry Ray (25:54):And, and more than happy to talk to you, I, I stepped out a student ministry proper to take this YM 360 role to give myself the ability to have these conversations like we're having the day, uh, with youth pastors, youth workers, uh, all over the place. So my email address is Kerry kr y com. Um, or you can catch me on Twitter and Instagram, uh, K R two, and then the letter you k um, I, I don't have TikTok. I just have a blank account so I can keep up with what's going on, but nobody wants to see me do Renegade or any of the dances anyway, so I know Charlie de that's, it's true, it's true. I should be on Dancing With the Stars, but I'm a, I'm no TikTok dancer day. So Yeah, day one day it's my aspiration. . Uh, yeah. So please, please hit me up and lemme hear from you. Any questions you ever have, anything you ever need, or if you just need to be encouraged and say don't, because here's, here's the deal, Nick, I just want people to know that there's less people joining into the student ministry rights than there used to be. Hmm. And, uh, we need more people than ever before. And so, yeah. Kerry Ray (27:10):You know, um, gosh, I'm going blank on that. Josh ship is the guy who said, you know, every student needs one caring adult. Yeah. Every student is one caring adult away from being a success. Um, and so, man, we need so many caring adults out there who are willing to see students, to love students where they are versus where they wish they were. That's good. And, and just to jump in and say, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm willing to let somebody show me the ropes. So Nick Clason (27:43):This stuff, man. Hey, I appreciate it. Thanks for your, uh, absolutely your time today from, uh, Birmingham Hotel Room. It's been great. Kerry Ray (27:51):. Thank you very much, man. Thanks for having me. Nick Clason (27:55):Wow. Well, man, I hope that you guys found that interesting and fascinating. Uh, hey, uh, in the show notes, wherever you get podcasts, you should be able to, uh, see the links to all the things that Kerry was talking about and all the resources that are available. If you are not a youth pastor, thank you for sitting through just a couple of old timey youth pastors chatting up, doing ministry, talking about ministry. But if you know someone who is in, in particular, man, I would really encourage you to share with him the ministry to parent and the, um, my Youth men, um, platform. Share those links with them. It's something that can be really, really helpful. Uh, we talked about this a little bit, um, off off Mike, Kerry and I, well, once we hung up. But my youth min, honestly, guys, it is conference level training. Nick Clason (28:42):And so if you're a youth pastor and you're in a small church without a giant budget, like it's behind a paywall, however, it is far cheaper than if you got a plane, got a hotel, um, and paid for a conference ticket somewhere across country or whatever, and you have access to it. Like, I don't know if you heard, he's like 20 something pieces of new content every single month. So there is conference level training very available at your fingertips, very accessible. Um, and so that's a budget saver, you know, and so I think leaders who wanna be learning, um, are growing super helpful. So check that out for sure. I am a, I'm a contributor to it, so, um, shamelessly love to have you check it out. Um, but anyway, uh, appreciate you guys, uh, listening. And if you're anything like me and you listen to podcasts on the go, I do it when I'm, I'm running, I do it when I'm driving, and I do it when I'm on the lawn doing the dishes. Nick Clason (29:37):The reality is, um, Kerry said so much good stuff in there and I would hate, hate for you to miss it. And so we, for free provide, uh, transcripts for every single episode. You can check those out at hybridministry.xyz or just, uh, read through it in your podcast catcher so that you're able to just see what's going on and, uh, hear what's going on and maybe take some notes, um, and take some of the things that you heard in your ears and put it to paper if you need it. Um, for conversations or for meetings with, uh, upper level leadership or whatever the case may be. We just wanna serve you and help you win in your area of ministry. So you can check that out at hybridministry.xyz. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We'd love to have you come hang out with us. And hey, listen, if you found this helpful one way that you could really help us out, um, a gigantic favor for us would just be male. Nick Clason (30:26):If you could give us a like, or a rating or a review, that would be very beneficial, help us pay it forward, um, and help you maybe pay it forward even to some other people who, who wanna help uncover and find this information. So, once again, grateful for you, thankful for you. Um, hope you guys have a great rest of your day, wherever you are, whatever you might be doing, and we pray that this is helping, um, make digital discipleship just a little bit easier for you in your ministry context. Until next time, talk to you later guys. Bye.
SUMMARY In this episode Nick sits down with his friend, and YM360 General Editor and Content Director, Kerry Ray. Kerry is a veteran with over 3 decades of experience in church ministry, all in student ministry. Kerry and Nick talk about the ways in which technology has changed and shaped the ways of doing ministry. And Kerry also talks about the importance of going to a teenager's "turf" or showing up in their life, relationally. Come hang out with us on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or grab show notes and transcripts at http://www.hybridministry.xyz SHOWNOTES YM360 http://www.ym360.com MINISTRY TO PARENTS https://ministrytoparents.com/ MY YOUTH MIN https://myyouthmin.com/ EPISODE 016 ON HOW THE IPHONE CHANGED THINGS WITH DERRY PRENKERT https://merry-swamp-3547.fireside.fm/016 TIMECODES 00:00-02:49 Intro 02:49-05:55 Kerry's Intro and Experience 05:55-09:12 What it's like no longer being in the trenches of ministry 09:12-13:44 What was life in ministry like before the cell phone and after? 13:44-16:22 Is technology what created FOMO? 16:22-21:00 What is contact work? 21:00-32:58 Can we use technology to our advantage in ministry efforts? 32:58-34:27 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Hey, what is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, episode 19. We've been doing 19 of these. I can't freaking believe it in your catcher. It might be 20, because we posted as Double Zero pilot. I kind of hate when people do that, and then I, I went and did it. So, anyway, uh, as always, I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be with you. And today you're in for a treat because number one, I'm not just gonna ramble in your ear holes the entire time, like I have been for the last several episodes, but two, I'm bringing on one of my really good friends. His name is Kerry Ray. He is the director of editing and publications right now at YM 360, which is, YM Youth Min, right? Youth Ministry 360. And he has 30 years of church ministry experience, particularly in the student ministry and youth ministry space. Nick Clason (00:58): So, let me caveat all of that to say this is a ministry podcast, not specific in particular to youth ministry. However, that being said, um, you know that I am a 12 year youth ministry veteran, and so a lot of my connections and conversations come in the youth ministry space. And so, um, I just will caveat all this to say that today is going to be a very youth ministry centric conversation. Um, but all of it is going to be couched sort of in, uh, digital, right? And, and so what Kerry is gonna be talking about, um, and what I did is I, we had an interview and it went really well, and it went really long. And so I decided, I think I'm actually gonna bite, uh, split this up into two more bite size pieces. And so, episode one is gonna come out this week, episode two, or part two of this, I should say, is gonna drop on Thanksgiving Day, so you can enjoy it on the way to your, um, grandmother's house over the river and through the woods. Nick Clason (01:59): So in this first part in particular, he's gonna talk a little bit about his experience, um, what he's seen and how he's seen digital play a role in that. And then he talks about, um, a thing that I first learned from him, but he says he's still primarily from young Life called contact work, right? And if you've been around this podcast at all, you've known, we talked about showing up where they are, um, which is what Jesus did, honestly, right? He, he showed up where we were, he put on skin, he became human. And so that's what he talks about, and he kind of gives the basis for it and why it's important. Um, and so that's gonna be today. Um, so hopefully you enjoy it. And so, without any further ado, we're gonna get started. And you'll notice just how well I am as a host when we plan this thing, when you hear how we get started. So here we go. 3, 2, 1. Check it out. Hey, Kerry Ray (02:50): Is whoa gonna go first on, Nick Clason (02:53): Man? Come on. Doesn't even listen to instructions. Kerry Ray (02:57): I did. I thought you said, I'll do a thing later. And then you go ahead and introduce Nick Clason (03:02): Yourself. I'm keeping all this in. This is Kerry, everybody. Kerry, introduce yourself to the tens and tens of listeners that I have. Kerry Ray (03:10): Hey, tens of listeners. My name is Kerry Ray. I am the director of publishing for Y M 360 in Birmingham, Alabama. Uh, YM 360 Youth Ministry 360. Uh, before that, uh, this is my first year actually as a director of publishing, whatever that means. Uh, I did, uh, before that, I did, uh, right about three decades in the student ministry seat, um, in multiple denominations of churches, in churches, multiple states, uh, different sizes, churches, different size, not sizes, different size churches, um, multisites single sites, uh, single sites that wanted to be multisite, uh, . I've been, I've been around the block and, and seen a lot of things, man. Um, but yeah, I've been in the youth ministry for right at 30 years. And, um, this was my first, actually at the time of this recording, this was my, this last Easter was my first Easter, uh, in, in here in 2022, was my first Easter in 30 years, not to be on staff at a church. Kerry Ray (04:15): So it was quite the different thing to sit in there as a regular person who could see all the things going wrong, but uh, was not responsible for, for fixing any of them. Um, and so it was great. It was, it was really great. Um, it's weird now on Saturday nights after, you know, you get in a routine for 30 years. Uh, Saturday nights are kind of a weird thing because you go to church on Sunday mornings, but you're not going to work, you know, to do all the things. Um, so, and you go with a family on, on a Sunday morning, it's whole thing. Just a different world, man. So I've, uh, like I said, I've been, I got to wife 360 in October of 2022, um, and started a, a new thing. We, we work in, uh, Y 360, if you don't know, we're, we're part, um, publishing. Kerry Ray (05:06): And, uh, we create content for student ministries, youth ministries, all over the world to use. Um, and we also do camps. We have a, a generate by Y 360, uh, which does camp all across different locations. We had this last summer, summer of 2022. We, I believe we were in 20, 23 or 24 locations, um, running camps, 20. We had three different teams spread out all over. Uh, so it was great. My, my section of that, we create all of the, uh, written material, all the devotional material, all of the, um, all the written material for camps. Um, so yeah, it's been a lot of fun. It's very different. And then I get to, uh, coach student ministries, youth pastors, all across the place. Um, I've been doing that for around seven years, so, yeah. Nice. Yeah. Lot of fun. Lot of fun. Nick Clason (05:59): So let me ask you this, just, this isn't one of the questions I sent you. I'm already going off script, but, uh, do you enjoy Saturday nights and Sunday mornings not being responsible for stuff, or is there like an element of you that misses it at all? Kerry Ray (06:15): Oh, absolutely. I think anytime you do something for a significant amount of your life, um, there's a part of you that missed that, um, that misses, um, you know, just being around and, and, and knowing all the faces and knowing who's where. And, um, yeah, there's just part of it that you kind of miss a little bit of it. There's some part, and maybe this will make sense for some of you listening who've done anything for a significant amount of time, there's parts that you miss that you don't know why you miss, or you don't even know what you miss. You just say something's weird and off and just seems a little different. Um, yeah. But yeah, there, there's pieces and parts. There's definitely pieces and parts that I don't miss. Kerry Ray (06:56): You know, I don't miss, you know, being gone all day on a Sunday. Um, I don't miss, um, I the whole getting to be a part like you go as a family and do stuff with as a family, uh, that's really brand new. Yeah. Um, and, and it's, it's been great. My, my kids, I, my wife and I have two kids. We have an eight year old and a 14 just turned 14 a couple days ago. And so this is such a significant time in both of their lives mm-hmm. that it is great to be, you know, just a dad and not a staff member. Um, and to get, to get to sit in, I'll tell you, you know, a little bit of a confession. It's also difficult. Um, we're at a smaller church now, and, um, having been in large church ministry for so long, um, now that my daughter is participating in ministry, and, you know, that ministry is, you know, trying to figure itself out and mm-hmm. and, and go through all the, you know, all the growing pains of, of a growing ministry. And I'm sitting on the sidelines and thinking, gosh, , that's awkward. I can help that, but I don't wanna, you know, I don't wanna white knight, you know, come in when my, on my high horse and, and quote unquote fix it for them. Especially with, Nick Clason (08:16): You're fixing it as the YM 360 guy. Are you fixing it as Madison dad, as dad? Are you fixing it as a church volunteer? Like, what, yeah. What's Kerry Ray (08:26): Your role, right? Or are you fixing as the guy that quote unquote knows it all right. So, you know, you don't, you don't wanna be that guy. Um, so yeah, it's, it's just been, it's been weird. That's, that's kind of the honest thing is to have done a thing, and I think this is true at anything, not just ministry, but having, you know, if you were, if you were a cabinet maker and you walked in and people were, you know, fumbling around with a hammer trying to build a cabinet, and you're just biting your, you know, biting your closed fist, going, oh, no, that's not how you, you do it . Um, so it, it's that, I mean, and not saying that they're not doing a great job. Um, they are, they're doing well in figuring it out. They're just, you know, figuring it out. Um, and they're going through some, some growing pain in that process. So yeah, that's, that's what we're doing as a family right Nick Clason (09:13): Now. So I'm, I'm curious, Kerry, like two or three episodes ago, I'll link it, you know, in the show notes, but I had, uh, my friend d Pinker on, and we talked about, um, how he, he has a similar longevity track record that you do, and he talked about how the invention of the iPhone was a pretty monumental, like, milestone marker for him in youth ministry. Like he kinda remembers ministry before the invention, um, and widespread use of the iPhone, and then post the invention and widespread use of the iPhone. Do you have, would you say you have a similar, um, experience with that? Like, did you, did you notice that being a pretty big milestone thing in student ministry and in your career noticing how students interacted? Did that change things? Did you, um, have to program or think about things differently because of technology and it's, you know, interwoven into the culture? Kerry Ray (10:11): Um, honestly, I, I think the iPhone changed not programming so much as it changed, um, advertising. And I know that's a big no-no word. You know, in the church world, you're not supposed to see the things you're doing as a quote unquote product or something you are promoting. Um, but you are, you're, you're promoting a thing, um, come be a part of this, whether it's a camp, a Wednesday night, a Sunday morning, you are trying to tell people this is a thing we have, um, otherwise you're sitting there by yourself. Um, and so I think it changed, I think it changed dramatically how we engaged with, with students. Hmm. , um, I don't think so much at all. It, it really changed programming. Um, but it definitely changed the way we engaged. It definitely changed, um, the level of intentionality that you had to put behind, uh, promotion and how you promoted and how you celebrated. Kerry Ray (11:15): Uh, it also gave you kind of an open door, you know, whether you want it to be or not. A lot of youth ministry is word of mouth. Yeah. Um, I always used to kinda call it the skating rink effect when I was a kid. You know, the skating rink was, was a thing. , sadly, that'll show you my age. The skating rink was a thing, and we didn't, in middle school specifically, you didn't know why it was a thing. Yeah. You just knew that's where everybody was. Mm-hmm. . And, uh, but it was word of mouth, you know? It was, it wasn't the, the skating rink when I grew up, the skating, it was called fun time, skate land. Uh, it wasn't that fun time. Skateland had this giant marketing, you know, this this monumental system or this, this thing that they were doing. They were like, come to fun time. Kerry Ray (12:01): It was just, it was word of mouth. And the middle school, you know, that that's where everybody was going on on a Friday night. They were going to fun time. And you talked about it in the hallways, and people do, and I think in cinema ministry, whether we want it to be or not, it, it's always been a word of mouth. You know, I'm, you know, why do, why do so many kids show up to this one event, this all nighter that you do? Well, because the word got out that these people are going and the other people wanna go. And then it snowballs into this thing. Um, and I think the word of mouth became digital. Word of mouth. Um, and you could, you could digitally have a megaphone to, to broadcast that thing versus just relying on word of mouth. Yeah. Um, and so that changed the game. Kerry Ray (12:47): So it changed. Um, the only thing I would say in programming, uh, uh, that it would change was that you had to be, or you started to be a little more intentional about recording the things that you were doing mm-hmm. and putting them out there for people to see later. Yeah. Uh, and to advertise with. Um, that's probably the only way it really changed. And I would say it changed programming. It would just, Hey, we want to capture certain things. And so we would talk about, as a team, uh, what are the things we wanna maybe capture tonight and, and broadcast so that people can see it and try to leverage the fomo, you know, the, the, that FOMO piece mm-hmm. is, is a real deal, the invention of the iPhone, Instagram, now TikTok, um, even, even be, you know, be real. It is that FOMO piece of what's happening in the moment. Who's doing what, Ooh, I wanna be a part of that. Mm-hmm. , that's what changed. I think that's what changed. Nick Clason (13:45): So would you say before that, that fomo for someone my age, who's only done ministry in an iPhone generation, is fomo a recent phenomenon since the invention of technology and things like that? Or was that always a part of it? Now you just can see it with your own eyes that you Oh, you're right now missing out. Kerry Ray (14:07): Yeah. No, FOMO has always existed. Um, it wasn't called that, but you know, there was always that, you know, nobody wants to be left out. Everybody wants to be, um, they did say it for hundreds, hundreds of years. They've been saying for years, you know, that, um, when you walk into a building, but think about yourself anytime, iPhone or not, you walk into a restaurant in a busy time of the day for a restaurant mm-hmm. , and you're the, there's maybe one other person in the restaurant. There's something inside of you that goes, it could be the greatest restaurant ever. It could be the best food, best atmosphere, but there's something inside you that intrinsically goes, huh, yeah, something's wrong. What's wrong with this, this ? And, and I think that's, I think that's who we are as, as human beings. When you walk into a store, there's nobody shopping there. When you, when you go to a gym and you work and there's, you're what, what's midnight? That's if you're doing it in a time where typically there would be people there, whether we walk into a church now, um, and there's, you know, there's nobody really attending. You go, huh? When you walk outta that, you don't say, you know, man, that was great. You go, man, that was great. I wonder why nobody goes. Nick Clason (15:27): Yeah. Well, it's interesting, right? Cause none of that's based on the actual content maybe. Nope. Of like, oh, that was a great message I really resonated with, or whatever. Like what you're noticing is like the social equity landscape of like, what's going on around you, looking around, no one's there. And Kerry Ray (15:44): It is a thing, and it is a thing. I think that thing has always existed. And I think whether it's the iPhone or social media, um, has just exacerbated that and made it, yeah. A more prominent thing turned the volume up, if you will, uh, has made it a more prominent thing, more obvious thing. Um, the, but I think it's always been there. Uh, I think it's, you know, when you were eight years old and didn't get invited to a birthday party and you knew other people did mm-hmm. , that's, you had fomo, you were missing out. Um, I think that's just a, a human thing. Nick Clason (16:22): Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So you and I connected, you were at a church in Cincinnati. I was at a church in Cincinnati, and we were on the doorstep of working together. Um, and so in that process, I guess, I mean, I guess it was even formal. We had formal interviews and stuff. Um, you explained to me, uh, a thing that, I don't know if you came up with this or coined it or whatever, but you called it contact work. Um, so explain a little bit to our listeners, like what that is, where it comes from, maybe the theological or biblical basis for it. Um, and, uh, like then I wanna kind of explore, is that type of work, is that type of ministry, is that possible more and more as we enter into this digital space? But first of all, give us just a little bit of like a background of like, what is it, um, what are you talking about with contact work? I think when I heard it, I never heard it called that, but it was very intrinsic to me. Like, I was like, oh, yeah, this makes sense, right? As a youth pastor, like, this is what I'm trying to do. I just never kind of put this label to it. So explain that a little bit. Kerry Ray (17:32): Yeah. Well, I definitely did not, uh, coin the phrase contact work. Um, that is, um, I served for a while, um, in young life, and that is a, that is a big, big piece of young life. If anybody's listening who has ever been a part or knows anything about young life, contact work is one of their core tenants. Um, they put a lot of, a lot of energy and effort and strategy Nick Clason (18:00): Into Andre good at contact work. That's, that's probably what they're best, I would say. Kerry Ray (18:04): Oh, they're, yeah, they're excellent at it. And it's because they value it. It's such a high value, um, for them. Like I said, it's one of their core tenants. Um, it's such a high value that they do it well. Um, and so borrowing that phrase from those guys, um, I just learned it and saw it done really well and saw it valued. Um, and so I, I kind of adopted it into early on into, um, what I was doing, and it was, it was going where they are versus expecting them to come to you. Hmm. Um, contact work at, at its core is, uh, young life would call it earning the right to be heard. Um, but it is, or maybe you hear them say, um, doing things on their turf mm-hmm. , um, so to speak. But basically it is, it is going to where the students are mm-hmm. versus sitting and expecting them to come to you, and then you're putting in the time with them in their places where they feel comfortable and confident, and where they maybe kinda run the show versus your place behind these walls, behind this door where you're in charge and are expecting them to, to do certain, certain things. Um, contact, contact work. Oops, sorry. Contact work is something that is something that we have done for years. It's an expectation. Kerry Ray (19:37): Sorry, my headphones went out for a second. Nick Clason (19:40): Oh, no, you're good. Contact work is sounds great to me. So, Kerry Ray (19:42): Okay. Contact work is, is something that, um, I have, you know, expected is the best word to use of any staff we have I've ever had on, on a, on a church staff. Um, it is, it's that big of a deal. Um, for example, when I had interns and, you know, we were only allowed, you know, what, 15 hours with an intern mm-hmm. mm-hmm. 10 of those hours with contact work, and I would ask them to, you know, fill out a form that tells me where they were going, what they were doing, who they, who they hung out with and talked to. Mm-hmm. , it was that big of a deal. I wanted them to value it. Um, that's when I first started in ministry. Early on, we didn't call it that. Um, but that was my role. Um, I had an older youth pastor who kinda looked at me and sat me down and said, Hey man, I, I'm too old to go run with the Bulls. Um, so , I'm gonna ask you to do that, and I'm gonna expect you to be in the school. I'm gonna expect you to be the one at the games. I'll still be the guy preaching, but, and you know, teaching, teaching you how to do those things, but, you know, you're the guy that's gonna run around with 'em. You can call it Tide Piper, whatever you wanna call it, but it is going and building relationships with students, with teenagers on their turf where they are at instead of expecting them to come to you. Nick Clason (21:02): Yeah. I think, and I think, like for me, man, the basis really of me starting this whole podcast is realizing that, uh, digital can play a role in that. You know, I think for churches, a lot of churches, uh, get stuck into their, like, programming schedule. It's Wednesday night, Sunday morning, whatever, and not realizing that there's another 167 unclaimed hours that students are living life doing their thing. Um, you know, so that can obviously be done in person, but how would you say, have you seen that be either possible, or would you say like, yeah, that's not even really a possibility, uh, to show up on their turf in like a digital or more of like a hybrid type of way? Kerry Ray (21:53): Lemme back up for a second first, and I can say that one, it's, it's part of what we're called to do. Mm-hmm. , if you're in ministry, um, we're supposed to be following and living as Jesus did. And what you never saw in the New Testament was Jesus just sit still somewhere and say, you know, everybody come to me. Mm-hmm. , I'm not going anywhere. I'm gonna sit here , you know, in Jerusalem. I'm just gonna sit here and expect you to come to me. He traveled, he, he went around from town to town, place to place sharing and talking. And part of that was, you know, just getting around the people. Mm-hmm. , um, the people that, you know, he came to this place to die for was just to be amongst and, and interact with those people. Um, and that's part of our calling we're, we can't just sit in a church. Kerry Ray (22:43): You could have the greatest program in the world, but you sitting in a church and just expecting people to come to you is one arrogant too. Mm-hmm. , it's foolish. Three, it's ineffective. Um, it just doesn't, it's not the thing you can't, that's not who you're called to be. You're called to, to be out and about. And with people, people, these students are, you're calling, they're, they're coming to know Christ is your calling. And, and it can't be, I'm just sitting here and the kids that get here, that's great. The kids who don't hate it for them, um, that that's not okay. Yeah. So let's start there. Uh, number two, um, it, it matters to your community. Um, you hopefully want your church, your ministry, your student ministry. You want that to, to have such an impact on the lives of the people in your community, no matter their age, that if it disappeared, people would care. Mm-hmm. Nick Clason (23:40): . Yeah. Kerry Ray (23:41): And to do that, you can't sit in your ivory tower literally and, and expect that to happen. You've got to go out and make some sort of impact, some sort of influence. Uh, and I think in the world we live in the, with the, um, deification, if you will, you know, all of the, you know, I am, you know, de deconstructing my, my religious experience. Um, people are weary. People are weary, people are leery I'll rhyme there. Uh, they're both, they are, they're, um, suspicious mm-hmm. of church. Like, what do you, you know, what do you want from me? Oh, you just want my money. Um, and we've got, if you're talking about students and general teenagers, uh, we've got, this is the first group generation that was raised by students who bowed out years ago. You know, statistically they're, they're called the nuns. N o n E S, not n u n S. Kerry Ray (24:42): But the parents are the people who were in student ministry, you know, maybe. And then they bowed out and their parents didn't, you know, didn't raise them in church. And so now they're having kids of their own. And, and so it's, it's blank slates. So you've got parents who don't know, who don't know church. You've got students who don't know church. Um, they're blank canvases. And so, uh, we are, should be out and about if nothing else trying to, trying to show and be the hands of Jesus Christ, the hands of beauty of Christ in these communities in which we are called the love administer to, um, digitally, um, I, I, let's be honest, we watched these last couple years with Covid shutting everything down. Mm-hmm. , we watched the churches who, and the student ministries who had embraced a, a different philosophy versus the come to me. Kerry Ray (25:40): Um, they transitioned better. I won't say, well, I will say they had, they made it through the Covid piece a little better mm-hmm. than the churches and the student ministries who lived in the come to us mentality. Um, but let's be honest, I think everybody struggled with it. Uh, because even young life, uh, who is excellent at contact work, I watched Young Life struggled to find themselves because they couldn't do that anymore. Yeah. They couldn't do the face to face interaction, and they had to try to do it in a digital format, and it didn't work as well. Sounds, um, it, it failed. Um, yeah. And it struggled. I mean, some of it, I mean, he, it kinda worked. Not really. I, I would say it failed. Um, even, you know, the big players in, in student industry, the people who were doing this, the guys out like, you know, um, fields and Josh, Doug Fields and Josh out in California went to a digital format. Kerry Ray (26:38): And I don't know, I, I haven't talked to these guys about it, so I'm gonna assume, but I, I would assume if you, you asked those guys, they would tell you that it was not what it was. Mm-hmm. , did they do the big digital thing? Well, sure they did. Yeah. But I don't, I don't think it was what it was before that. Yeah. I don't think they got the same interaction. It's a, it's a lot of work for a little payoff. Um, I know at the time of covid, I was in, uh, church in Cincinnati, Ohio, and our middle school ministry was tied to the weekends mm-hmm. , and it was kinda a show up to church, and you go to this thing, but our high school was built offsite. Um, and we had had multiple years where the students had built communities, it houses across the city, and those communities met offsite, and it was in that community that those students lived in with small group leaders that lived in that community that those students lived in. Kerry Ray (27:33): And those students were showing up and inviting people into this thing because it was their thing. Mm-hmm. , um, it was kind of their turf, but with our, uh, blanket over the top of it. Sure. It was, but it was still their thing. Um, and when Covid hit, I got to see firsthand middle school, they come to us, we shut that down for a little bit, then we tried to do it digitally. It just didn't fly. Um, it was a struggle to put, you know, 10 kids in the room, in, in a digital room, uh, high school. I don't think, if I looked at the numbers, and I tracked them every week, I think in total we lost two students. Wow. Two, why? And we actually picked up a few. Why? Because they had already built this community that was not attached to the come, come and see mm-hmm. , Kerry Ray (28:31): It was, it was a community. So when we took that community that already existed and just moved it to a digital format, they, they still do the same people. It was still, it was built on a different thing. Mm-hmm. , it was centered around community and not centered around come and see Yes. Or come and participate. Yeah. Um, so it, it, it, it mattered. It, it changed. And I, like I said, I watched, um, during those, during the covid years, got to see, you know, there were plenty of churches that that died. There were plenty of churches that are still, you know, where a year out now when this is being recorded. And they are still struggling with putting the pieces back together. I don't think, I don't think ministry, I don't think church will ever quite be the same. Um, post covid. Interesting. But, and I think youth ministry is harder, um, because I think students got realize they didn't have to be there. Kerry Ray (29:25): Mm-hmm. , uh, the church kids stopped going. The, the non-church kids never went. Uh, and we had a generation now that has been raised at least for a couple of years, you think of a sixth grader, they went through sixth, seventh, and part of grade without ever being in a so ninth grade in that time where it's already hard to be a part of a community because you drive for the first time, you've got some freedom in ninth and 10th grade. Yeah. Depending on your age and your state, uh, you start having freedom, you start working, um, you start doing other things. It's already hard in the, in the youth industry world. For those of you listening to this that are in, in ministry, you know, that time is already difficult anyway. But now you've got a group who went three years without engaging at all mm-hmm. , Kerry Ray (30:08): Uh, and then behind them is another group that went three years without engaging at all. And behind them is another group that, you know, hey, which is babies at the time. So it's going to be a difficult dig out. Um, and I think that that actually makes this contact work piece even more relevant. Mm-hmm. . Now to your question, if, can it be digital? I don't know. I, I have not seen that work super well. Um, now I will tell you this, we all know that, um, for a teenager, uh, when you, and I think of the friends we make, you know, they say, well, my friend, you know, you like, you think my friend that I play, you know, call on duty with, you know, that lives in California. You're like, you never, you, you live in Alabama, you don't know that kid , but you're like, no, I play with them every day. Kerry Ray (31:00): I, you know, I spend hours with them on a headset, you know, shooting people and, and you know, talking about stuff over the headset to them that is a real friend. Yeah. Um, that barrier has dropped mm-hmm. to us as adults. You know, I think, you know, for those of you that don't know, those of us, you know, over the age of, let's call it 27 ish, you know, we're digital. We're digital immigrants. Mm-hmm. , we're, we come with baggage of how technology works and how it should be used and utilized, and, uh, where our teenagers and below, or digital natives mm-hmm. , there's never been a time where they did not know technology. There's never been a time where social media was not interactive for them. Um, and so we as adults, as digital immigrants, let's use that instead of adults, us as digital immigrants, we look at, um, online friendships, online relationships, um, and go, that's weird. Kerry Ray (32:03): Um, that's not a thing. But to them as digital natives, that has always been the thing that has always been very real. Um, dating apps and, you know, swiping left and right. And I mean, that went from like a silly thing. Like, you know, this is those of us, again as digital immigrants, look at that and go, come on. Um, you know, you're just, you're just, you know, trying to find a hot dude or hot girl and hook up. But for them, they're like, no, I, I'm trying to find a relationship. I get to know people this way. Yeah. Um, it's, it's fascinating. Yeah. Um, so I think there is, there, there's gotta be a way for that to happen mm-hmm. , and we've gotta figure out this, and I'd go back to contact work. There's gotta be a way for contact work to happen in a digital context. But there is some, there is something to set for a loss of the, the face to face because the face to face is so significant. Nick Clason (32:58): Wow. Well, wasn't that awesome? I'm so excited for you to hear and learn from part two. Um, anything and everything that Kerry mentioned, uh, YM 360, my youth min, um, all those things. Um, and also Derry's episode. I'm gonna link all of those in the show notes, which you can grab a in your podcast catcher or be over at hybridministry.xyz. And I would really encourage you, because he said a lot of really good things. And if you're like me and you listen on 1.5 or two times speed, uh, you may have not caught it, or you're driving or you mowing the lawn or whatever you're doing, head to hybridministry.xyz and you can grab a full transcript of this episode so that you can have and use to utilize at your discretion. That's a thing that we do and produce for you, um, for a hundred percent free. Nick Clason (33:49): So we just wanna let you know that that is available there for you to check out at http://hybridministry.xyz If you found this helpful and I'm sure that you did, please give it a share. Send it to someone that you know, maybe in youth ministry, um, and leave us a rating or a review. That would be really, really helpful for us. We would love to, uh, hear that. So, um, we will chat with you guys next time. Excited to share with you part two of this episode. But until then, we'll talk again later by.
SUMMARY In this Episode Nick explains and explores his experience with YouTube. What he learned from launching a YouTube channel during COVID, and his new recommendation for churches and ministry leaders for delivering useful content online for Gen Z and Gen Alpha and beyond. Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or get FREE transcripts at http://www.hybridministry.xyz Or find more written content like this from Nick at http://www.myyouthmin.com TIMECODES 00:00-00:36 - Intro 00:36-07:22 - The lessons I've learned from starting a YouTube channel during COVID 07:22-10:31 - Why start with YouTube? 10:31-13:13 - How to get indexed in searches on YouTube 13:13-16:26 - Ministry Implications 16:26-20:36 - YouTube Best Practices 20:36-22:09 - Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What is up everybody? And welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. I am Nick Clason, your host, and today I wanted to talk about YouTube, and I actually wanted to talk about why I think it is useful for churches to quit live streaming their sermons. Now, hear me out. Hear me out. Before I dive into all that, let me just get a couple of things off the bat here said. So first and foremost, I wanna talk about YouTube. I don't like to talk about things on this show that I don't have a lot of experience with. And so today is an exception because I have almost zero experience with YouTube. And so for you to understand why and why and the history and everything like that, I just want to give a quick overview. So the church that I most recently served at, not where I am now, but where I most recently before here served at, had a almost 600 YouTube subscriber channel and over 300 or something like that, videos published on it. Nick Clason (01:22): The reason for that being that we started our YouTube channel and our YouTube show, the first day of Covid. And so our YouTube channel and strategy was primarily a digital version of what we would do if we were in the room. So we would think, let's do a game. And in our defense, I think what we did game wise and announcement wise and host wise was a little more YouTube centric than just simply throwing a camera in the back of the room and us pretending there were students there. But instead we were doing it a live stream. So what I mean by that is we built a studio and instead of a game, a screen game or something, we would do a segment. And it was almost like competition or challenge based. So I mean, if you think Mr. Beast or any of those big YouTubers, it was things like that. Nick Clason (02:27): So we were trying to think outside the box and trying to morph and do student ministry in a YouTube sort of way. One of the things that I think shot us in the foot was, first of all, we did it in a pinch. So we did it immediately and we pivoted very fast. And what we did and what we created, I personally was very proud of. But all that being said, once Covid began to run its course and things were over and opening a little bit more, people were looking for an in-person experience. And so what we were producing online was really no longer fulfilling the need that it needed to. So it probably needed an adjustment, and we started to make those adjustments. And what I mean by that is once Covid was over and kids were not stuck in their room, they're probably not that interested in our little segment or our little trivia game that we're playing or whatever on the screen. Nick Clason (03:29): But I do think that we had tons of formidable and useful spiritual content sermons, messages, whatever and whatnot that were totally useful. The problem was we did it in a full, long form show, so to speak. And so just youth group games and announcements and worship and all those things led into the message. And so you didn't get to the message until about 16 minutes on the actual YouTube thing. Typically the shows around 30 minutes or so. And so it was about half stuff and half a message. You get it If you're programming in the room, it's exactly what you would think as far as format wise, okay? And all of that. I was at a multi-site megachurch. All of that was handled by a creative team, a video editor, an audio producer, our tech department handled that, handled, uploading, posting, making it live, all those things. Nick Clason (04:29): And so I helped produce the content. I helped think through some of the philosophy and the strategy of it, but I was not boots on the ground in the weeds, hands on with doing, posting all the YouTube content and growing the channel. And in a lot of ways, the 600 something subs subscribers were a response to what happened during Covid, right? Everyone was subscribing to YouTube channels. Everyone that called our church home, parents, students alike, they subscribing to our channel. All right? So now fast forward to where I am now, and I'm at a little bit smaller church. We got a team of three, but we have around the same student count, or slightly more than the campus that I was at. And so we have a pretty frequent schedule Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. So every three days, there's something that we need to be thinking for, planning for, and prepping for. Nick Clason (05:26): Not to mention, the entire team of where I'm at is completely brand new. And so we are basically building something from the ground up. There was some stuff in place before and whatever and whatnot. But the reality is we're starting from the ground up. One of the things that we're starting from the ground up, we're continuing on with the Wednesday meeting times, Sunday meeting times, but we're launching and fleshing out a completely digital strategy. And so with all that being said, I wanna just give that caveat to this is my experience with YouTube. I have been very involved in the production of YouTube content. I've learned a lot of things, some dos and don'ts and whatevers and whatnots. But also we are at the church of, we are gonna be changing our name here in January. And so I actually secured the YouTube channel for our future name of our student ministry, which is still a secret to a lot of people. Nick Clason (06:28): So because of that, I have not started posting things to YouTube. What I have started doing is I have started beta testing our YouTube strategy more on a video filming and editing side of things. Is this a sustainable and scalable process that I can continue to implement beyond on a week to week type basis? And so I've been practicing some things, and so I think I feel pretty good about the workflow and rhythm to be able to pull some of these things off. And so I'm excited about launching a YouTube channel and account in January knowing that I'll be able to replicate what I've been doing. So that's sort the background and the history of at least my personal experience with YouTube. So why start with YouTube? Alright, I think YouTube is, is actually a really unique social media platform. It's the only one of its kind in the category of Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube is owned by Google, and it's the only social media platform in that category of those kind of core FI four or five that is owned by Google. Nick Clason (07:52): So you got Google, you got Meta, and then you got TikTok, who's sort of like the third player, the owner there in that, right? You've probably heard this before, but YouTube is actually widely considered by many to be the second largest search engine in the world behind only Google. Some if you get real nitty gritty with it, some actually say it's not the second largest, it's the third largest because Google Images is technically larger. Bottom line, all three, Google search, Google images and YouTube are owned by the same parent company, Google. And regardless of that, right? YouTube is a search engine. And so who among us has not installed a light fixture from the help of a friendly person who posted a YouTube tutorial on YouTube for us to watch and consume and use, Okay? And because it's a search engine, I think it's actually a pretty strategic advantage that can be used by us as pastors and ministry leaders. Nick Clason (08:55): Because if you think about it, when you search for a video, right? Search more how to or think how to fix, how to answer, how to do this, how to navigate this. So, or challenge us to think YouTubers rather than pastors or speakers. And I think that was one of our number one Achilles heels in where I was before. We were thinking YouTubers in a lot of ways, but in our, for example, and I'll get to this in a minute, but in our titling and in our thumbnails, we were treating this as series, the series Jesus series, Part three, March 1st. That's not a compelling, in captivating title for our audience who is with us every week and just wants to get on there and watch something on demand that may be helpful. But to someone who's gonna organically come across our YouTube content, that doesn't explain anything about what's in the video. Nick Clason (09:59): So why is live streaming problematic particularly? And full disclosure, I'm a student pastor. And so if you're watching this in a senior pastor and your church has good cameras, good audio equipment, good lighting to fully embrace a live streaming strategy, then by all means continue to do that. But if you're a youth pastor, I would not necessarily recommend building the gear, the switcher, the infrastructure of live streaming. All right, So let's talk about watch times. Cause this plays into it. According to a backlink.dot com, they surveyed and looked at 1.3 million YouTube videos to try and better understand the YouTube search feature and algorithm. What they determined was that longer videos significantly outperform shorter videos. And the average length of a first page YouTube video that's beneficial and helpful is 14 minutes and 50 seconds. All right? So you need to understand that the way that YouTube indexes and categorizes their videos is a combination of two things. Nick Clason (11:15): Overall, watch time paired with average percentage viewed. And so it turns out that videos in the 14 to 16 minute range actually index really well. In fact, those are the highest ones on search. There are other factors of things that help increase watch times, such as the hook or the intro. All right, So let's just think in the land of sermon delivering a sermon, Okay? I want you to just rank these two scenarios. Scenario number one. Hey everybody, welcome back. Real quick before I dive into tonight's message, I wanna remind you about the Churchwide Bake sales. It's coming up on Sunday, and if you want to earn money toward the mission trip, it is required that you be in attendance. If for some reason you can't make it, just be sure to talk to me afterwards. All right? Now, last week when we were in part three of our series, Jesus, we were reminded that Jesus was bonded together with his disciples because of their love. Nick Clason (12:14): And so tonight, what I wanna focus on in part four is what happens after the death burial and then ultimately resurrection of Jesus, right? That's scenario number one. That's you preaching to your congregation, your students, the people that call your church home. Let's talk about scenario number two. Hey, what if you could win a million dollars? What if I told you that the message of Jesus is actually one that supersedes and rises far above the benefits of winning millions and millions of dollars? Do you see how one at least has the intention of a hook? I don't know if it's good or not, right? That's why I say in fairness, I'm not a YouTube sivan or expert, but I want you, I wanna challenge you to think like a YouTuber. And so where one is taking care of housekeeping in your student ministry, what's going on the bake sale? The second one is actually thinking about YouTube first. It's creating a hook. So what are some implications for ministry? Well, first of all, a 30 to 45 minute sermon where the speaker is presenting primarily to a room full of people versus not really looking or paying attention to the camera. It's just there. Capturing them, doesn't act, Doesn't exactly right. Speak YouTube's preferred language. Think about it, in a live room environment anyway, messages between the length of 10 to 25 minutes seem to have become a pretty optimal length for student ministries who gather in person. Nick Clason (13:51): And I also think that if you take your YouTube or if you take your message content that you're going to already naturally deliver into a room, what I'm gonna actually propose here is that instead of capturing you delivering live to your room, I'm gonna propose that you prefill your content. And what happens is when you prefill your content, number one, you can create and craft a hook that is specific in particular for YouTube. Secondly, you can shave the time down to fit into that 14 to 16 minute window. Even if you go longer in the room, aim for that 14 to 16 minute window. And third, it gives you the opportunity to practice your message before you get up there and deliver it to a live room full of teenagers or parishioners or congregation members. And so that's one of the things that we've been doing. Nick Clason (14:58): We teach live every single Wednesday night, but during that week, after I'm done with my prep, I sit down, I put up a camera and iFilm my message. Then I do a little bit of post production, I add a sound bed behind it. I do some flying in graphics, lower thirds slides, and I put those on the screen as well. And that's gonna be our strategy for YouTube. Why? Number one, it's gonna let us do a YouTube first messaging. We're not gonna bury it behind a bunch of other elements. We're gonna go with the message first. If YouTube is in fact a search engine and kids are out there searching for answers to their faith, then let's give them the answers to their faith. And they might not care about our church announcements. They might not care about the worship, but what they do want is they want answers. Nick Clason (15:45): So answer the question, tell them what you're gonna talk about with the hook right up front at the very beginning of the video. And that for me is one of the hardest shifts, is moving from holding my ace content up my sleeve until the very end, waiting for the message to climax, but instead giving a teaser and a preview at the very beginning of the message. That's a shift. YouTubers do that really well. Pastors build to their ultimate conclusion, and so they try to create this mystery around what's gonna come. But the reality is on YouTube, if you don't hook them right off the bat immediately, then they are gone and on to the next thing. And so think like a YouTuber. Let's talk through some other YouTube best practices. Like I said, make sure your titling is something that a YouTuber would search for as opposed to Jesus Week three, Mark 14, one through 10. Nick Clason (16:39): That's not as captivating a title as Is hell a real place dealing with crippling anxiety or is rest even possible? You see the difference between those two. Think YouTube, think search engine, think click bait, think controversial type titles that help your video perform better because it's a search engine. The meta description or the title, the description of the video, those things all play a huge role in the YouTube ranking. So make sure you spend a little bit of time thinking through and crafting some good compelling descriptions. And then you can also link to things on your church's website or social media, or maybe even some products in the description of your video. Also include tags. YouTube gives you a spot to do that. So include keywords from your videos or tags that relate back to the topic. All three of those factors, title, description, tags, all play a role in the searchability of your YouTube content. Nick Clason (17:33): Also, your thumbnail plays plays a role. Go look at Mr. Beast. He's like number one, YouTuber in the world. Go look at his thumbnails on his YouTube channel and just get some photos with a decent iPhone, maybe a Google Pixel phone to take some halfway decent portrait shots. Throw some catchy text over it using maybe something like PowerPoint Canva, or if you have more skill Photoshop and use different catchy thumbnails to try on your videos. You can also then use a free tool like trends.google.com to look up your searchable words and compare things. AB testing. If you wanted to use the word fear versus the word anxiety, put those into trends.google.com. And you'll notice that anxiety has a higher search level. So use that. Nick Clason (18:25): And then also comments and shares and people embedding your videos are all things that are gonna help index it better in the YouTube algorithm. So ask for things like comments, ask for things like shares, and then on the embedding feature, try to embed your YouTube videos onto your church website onto your, And so then your website is hosting your YouTube video and embedding it already helps index it better. So you already have a platform that people are going to. So use that. That's a feature that's already built in and that can help you get going. All right, what if you're just starting? What starting gear do you need, right? Listen, if you're gonna go budget friendly, get a nice smartphone, right? I just gotta Google Pixel, the latest iPhone have some great things. One of the main things for filming is you need a separate microphone, Okay? Nick Clason (19:24): So you can get, just go on Amazon, do a quick search for a shotgun microphone with your style of phone connection that's needed. You can get something for under a hundred bucks. You can also get a lapel, a wireless lapel lighting. Natural lighting is great. Some ring lights can help. Do the trick. Get a tripod that you can stick your phone on. If you want a more professional rig, then listen. Just go to YouTube, search best YouTube starter set for gear, and you'll find something. I love everything that Brady Sheer from Pro Church Tools has to say just about anything in the church digital space. And in fact, I think the day I'm recording this, he yesterday just trapped a video on his favorite camera gear. So go copy that if you got the budget to do it and make it happen. And then you're just gonna have to do things like edit, and you're gonna figure out you wanna use iMovie, Da Vinci, Resolve Adobe Final Cut Pro. Nick Clason (20:20): Again, budget for some of those are cheaper, like iMovie and Da Vinci Resolve are free. More expensive options are the Adobe Suite or Final Cut Pro. You're just gonna have to see what you have and what's available out there. But listen, my recommendation, again, like I said, get on YouTube. Treat it like a search engine. Get out there. Put your message, the message of hope that you have about Jesus. Create a YouTube channel. Prefill your content or film it after you deliver it. If you want it to be a little bit more polished and you've a little bit more familiar with it, and just start posting some stuff out there, right? Try some things. Follow some of these best practices. You may not go viral overnight. I can't promise that, but these are some of the best practices out there on YouTube. And so simply following them is just gonna give you the best chance to be discovered. Nick Clason (21:12): And that's the goal. We want students, teenagers, or people wrestling with faith to come across the content that we have to offer, and hopefully give them something that's helpful. And this is just a way to expand your impact and your reach as a youth pastor, as a regular pastor in 2022 and beyond. Hey, I hope you guys found this episode helpful. If you did get, Man, leave us a rating or a review. We are on iTunes, Spotify, all the major podcast platforms, hybrid ministry. We're also on Twitter at hybrid ministry. We have full transcripts of everything. We provide this to y'all at hybridministry.xyz Come check us out there and we will talk to you guys.
SUMMARY In this episode, Nick talks through the core reasons why a Hybrid Strategy is the most effective way to reach the younger generations of milennials, Generation Z and Generation Alpha in 2022 and beyond. For Transcripts and more head to http://www.hybridministry.xyz Or join the conversation with us on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES https://myyouthmin.com/ TIMECODES 00:00-02:40 Intro 02:40-05:33 Why Social Media is important for reaching people in 2022 and beyond? 05:33-10:01 Digital Ministry is not Physical Ministry and vice versa 10:01-13:14 How people interact with organizations and companies 13:14-15:31 Becoming All Things to All People 15:31-18:56 So now what do we do? 18:56-22:29 Final Encouragement 22:29-23:41 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason. Excited to be here with you this morning. And today on this episode, I wanted to talk and walk through a social media framework for 2022, the ultimate guide on how to reach Generation Z millennials and soon to be, I was just challenged on this week soon to be Generation Alpha. So recently I was asked by Youth Ministry 360 YM360 based out of Birmingham to write one of their modules for their MYM which is short for My Youth Mein. It's a training portal, training hub that they have on their website. And so I'm actually gonna have this coming out in December of 2022 on their YM page. And so I'm in the middle of a writing it, so it's not all the way flushed out yet, but there are some things I have already put together for it. Nick Clason (01:25): And so if you wanna see that full version, I'll just encourage you to head over there to that website by the 1st of December to check that out. It is behind a paywall. There is a five day free trial, I believe. So if that's something that interests you, go and check it out to see it in written form. But I'm gonna process some of my thoughts with you all here on this podcast and just work through it. And then honestly, I'm probably gonna go back and listen to this and use it as a piece and part of my research prep, whatever, to flesh out and build out the remaining pieces. So it's building a seven step framework for social media in 2022. Part one and part seven are gonna be introductory and concluding pieces. And then parts one through five are going to be looking at platforms like YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, emailing slash texting. So five is email and text. Put two in one. So all that to be said, the ultimate social media guide. Why that? Okay, so what we know about Generation Z what we know about millennials we've chatted about it here on this podcast, but I did find some new research to back it. So this generation, Generation Z in particular, is actually the very first generation to use their mobile Nick Clason (02:59): Device more frequently than all other devices combined. So in preexisting generations, millennials, Gen X, so on, so forth they did not use their cell phone or their mobile device more frequently. Then the combined use of other devices, tv, video games, computer, laptop, you fill in the blank, right? Generation Z is statistically the first generation to use their mobile device more frequently. What does that tell us? It tells us that they're mobile first. They are the first smartphone generation, essentially. And so that does bode to make sense, and that is something that you would probably expect. However, with research coming out to back it up, it's super interesting, fascinating. So right then again, the question is what do we do with that? Millennials and also Gen Z say that a hybrid version of church will suit their needs going forward in a post pandemic world. That obviously comes from bar's research six questions about hybrid ministry in a post pandemic world. Nick Clason (04:14): And then finally, lastly this statistic I came across that says that greater than 80% of 18 to 29 year olds, which is the youngest age data available legally, because you can't pull anyone younger than 18 but greater than 80% of that age bracket use at least one social media app regularly, which of all the age breakdowns is the highest, right? And it's assumed that even younger gen z gen alpha, remember I'm writing this for a youth ministry a youth ministry training thing. So I'm focused particularly on teenagers, not just church, but you as a church leader pastor, ministry leader this 18 to a nine year old, this should matter regardless, right? I'm trying to skew it even younger than that for this project. But they use at least one social media app regularly. So my conclusion on that is what this shows us is what we may already know in our gut, the digital ministry digital engagement is not going anywhere. Nick Clason (05:29): I do think that there's a notion that came out kind of post pandemic, that digital didn't work because anecdotally, all of us spent months separated from one another. And as soon as that was over six months, 12 months, 18 months, or however long it took for us to be locked down under certain layers of covid protocols, we all knew that we wanted to get back together. Depending on where you were and what part of the world, world and how you're doing ministry, there's this gut feeling of like, we gotta get back together. And that's a hundred percent a true statement. Human beings, we are social creatures. And so removing all forms of human interaction is of course gonna have some adverse effects. But I think that what happened was we all did in churches, we tried to take something that was being offered for an in-person experience, church service, gathering together small groups worshiping God through singing collectively as a congregation. Nick Clason (06:28): And then we tried to reproduce or even replicate the absolute identical experience or expression in an online forum, church, live streams, worship services, and those don't work or play in that same vein as well. And so you're getting a lesser product B in every other facet area of your life. You're being forced to sit out in relationships with other people. And so I know that in our student ministry, we went hardcore after digital ministry and it helped kind of facilitate and flush out our future our future version of student ministry. But the reality is it did not ultimately fill the void that was left by not gathering. So my conclusion, one you've probably heard before on this podcast is that in person environments centered around the gathering of believers helps fulfill a specific purpose. And digital environments also help fulfill a specific different purpose. The word different there is important, okay? Nick Clason (07:41): Because everything on social media has a reason, has a purpose and it is not to just replicate, redo, and fulfill what's going on in person. And so in a post pandemic landscape, those two things, both digital and in person, I think got pitted against one another. At least I know in the ministry context that I was in, there were debates and people were wondering, does online work, does in person work? And so I was forced to take a side. And as you know, if you've been a listener of this podcast for any length of time, the side I'm gonna take, I'm going to take digital, I'm going to defend digital. I think that it is an incredible tool that is unique to the time period that we are in. And one that I believe if any of the writers of scripture, apostles, whatever were around, they would be using digital to help expand their message and help expand the message of the gospel that's available to us through Jesus alone. Nick Clason (08:55): And so we got sort of pitted in this digital versus physical. I don't know about your context, but I know in the context that I was in, I don't work there anymore, but that I was in, that was a hot debate, Is it working? And if not, then we need to just come back and do this. And the reality is, I always had to find myself arguing, standing against digital. And then I realized once I left that what we were doing in digital is not able to fully replace and supplement the purposes of in-person church. So yeah, of course we're gonna see lesser results from that. We gotta figure out where to shoot it in the middle, where we can be hybrid. So it's not about a preference anymore. We don't live in a world that's black and white with in person being black, digital being white, and you have to pick one or the other. Nick Clason (09:52): We live in this sticky middle called hybrid. Hence why I have this name, the hybrid ministry podcast. I like to use the analogy of my relationship with Home Depot, right? Saturday mornings I activate my full dad mode, throwing on my new balances, my cargo shorts, my dad hats set out to accomplish some DIY project. And the only place that is possible to go and do that get materials and all the things is none other than the Home Depot. I know in your mind you are queuing the Home Depot theme song. So as I head to Home Depot, think about this, sometimes I drive over to the hardware store, I walk around, I explore, I just enjoy breathing the same Home Depot air with the other cargo, short new balance wearing dads just like me. That's a physical experience. Sometimes though, I get on the Home Depot website or the app and I order supplies to be delivered directly to my doorstep later on that week. Nick Clason (10:51): That's a fully digital experience of me interacting with Home Depot. And finally, probably honestly, the most usual thing I do is while I'm at Home Depot and I can't freaking find what I'm looking for, do you know what I do? I pull open the Home Depot app, I go to my specific store and the location finder, I look up what I'm looking for, and then when the app is able to tell me exactly which ILE in which bay number I can find my specific product in, boom, I'm in. And I'm out in all of those scenarios. I am a Home Depot customer, but I'm engaging with the company in three completely different ways. I'm engaging with them in person, I'm engaging with them through their digital means and presence. And I'm also using them in a hybrid form while I'm there using their digital app. Nick Clason (11:43): And I personally believe I'm pretty staunch about this, that the gospel is the greatest story ever written and ever told. And if we're working to reach our people with that exact same message that I think we should challenge them to engage with our church in all three arenas in person, digital, hybrid, in fact, more than just challenge them to engage with us in all three, I would actually challenge you. I would challenge me, I would challenge us as ministry leaders to find ways that is not just reproducing, replicating creating exact representations of what's going on in our church building. I'd find ways to permeate those three spaces. Think about this, right? If our only strategy to reach new students or to reach, I'm a youth pastor, I told you I'm writing this for why I'm through 60, but to reach new students or to reach other congregation members, if our only strategy is to invite kids to join in on our turf, on our space during our meeting time, during our program time, and then turn around and send those same kids to live out 167 other hours of their week beyond what just happened to live out their faith, is that enough? Nick Clason (13:05): And I don't know that it is, right? Yes, it is not our job to fully live out our students faith, but I'm reminded of what Paul says in First Corinthians nine. Here's what he says nine 19 through 23, Though I am free and I belong to no one, what I've done is I've made myself a slave to everyone to win as many as possible to the Jews. It became like a Jew to win the Jews to those under the law. I became the one under the law. Though I myself am not under the law so as to win those under the law to those not having the law, I became like one. Not having the law, though I'm not free from God's law, but I'm under Christ's law. And so as to win those not having the law to the weak, I became weak to win the weak. Nick Clason (13:51): I've become all things to all people so that by all means possible, ready, I might save some. And I do this for the sake of the gospel so that I might share in its blessings. If over 80% of mobile users are using at least one social media app regularly, how can we become all things to all people? The way that Paul says it, how can we show up where our students are already choosing to spend their time? So I believe that one way to do that is through a robustly flushed out social media and marketing strategy. We talked about this in an episode about the myth of marketing. And back when Matt was on the pod regularly, he said We were asking, Is it wrong to market Jesus? And he said, Don't think about marketing in the traditional sense of marketing. Our church has billboards and ads. Nick Clason (14:52): Though you may have those things, there's nothing wrong with those things. But what the goal ultimately of marketing is to build an awareness. And Seth Godin says, in an attempt to change the world through our messaging. And I would think, and I would argue that most of us as church or ministry leaders, we exist to make a difference in the world, to change the world through our message. And if we can do that beyond our once a week in person program gatherings, I think we should. So what do we do? So social media, church communications, they've taken on some interesting forms in recent years. Like, here's how this would go. A new social media platform would emerge. The church, of course would resist it. And then once widespread adoption by its members became a reality in something that was undeniable anymore, the church would then jump into that platform and it would view it as a good communication tool or a good means to an end to get the word across. Nick Clason (16:04): And so then, if you're ministry leader, church leader, pastor, you get this when the whirlwind, when the busyness of leaders, youth pastors, rather than creating a specific tailor made digital influence, discipleship focused social media strategy, it would basically turn that social media into a billboard saying, Hey, if you want, all I have to offer from a discipleship social media strategy framework, you have to drive over to my building and come to this event. Like I said earlier, social media platforms each have an individual purpose. They all have best practices to reach the audience or our congregation that is following us on those platforms. And we're able to use those to find and reach more people with the message of the gospel. Often, like I said, what happens is, no offense to your graphic design prowess, but your church-wide potluck graphic is probably not going to be as mesmerizing to outsiders as you are hoping that it would be. Nick Clason (17:09): And it's not. People are not just gonna accidentally scroll past your graphic about the church wide potluck and just come strolling into your church's C Gymatorium to eat t Sally's famous potato salad, No shade to t Sally. I'm sure that the recipe that she has for her potato salad truly is a one of a kind, but that is not gonna be your ultimate win on social media. The odds are that if you're reading this, if you're listening to this as a ministry leader, then you instinctively know this, that just posting graphics of your events is really not going to be the best way to run or do social media. And maybe even as a ministry leader, youth pastor, you have been shoulder tapped or shoulder maybe even voluntold, to become the church's communications director and social media manager, But to keep your head above water to post regularly, to do communication, to lead your ministry well, to communicate with parents, leaders, students, to prep messages that are good and relevant, and to plan amazing and awesome events to even maybe run the sound booth on Sunday morning in big church worship services. Nick Clason (18:21): Cuz you're the only one under the age of 30 in your church gnawing inside of you. You're aware that social media matters, that the stats that we've talked about, Gen Z using their phone more than any other device, that they want a hybrid experience with church, that over 80% use at least one app on a regular basis. So what do we do? How do we build out flesh out this robust social media platform? Like I said, the remainder of this project is gonna be on Nym YM three sixty.com. Head there, grab a free trial, love to encourage you to check that out if that's something that you're interested in. But before we leave, I just want to offer a couple of encouragements and reminders because maybe saying this, you're like, Yeah, gosh, dang, man, I know I need to do something, right? Okay, There's gonna be a lot to build out in a social media framework. Nick Clason (19:26): Okay, Here's my encouragements to you. Number one, you don't have to try and do it all, and you definitely don't have to try and do it all tomorrow, But as we walk through this, as we look at different platforms, as you dive in YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, email, texting, choose one platform that's gonna work in your context and go all in on that. First, as a ministry leader, I just wanna encourage you doing a great job. I mean, I don't know specifically, but if you have that tension, that pressure, that feeling of trying to do all these things, it means that you care and you're probably doing an amazing job in the areas that you are working on. And I want to just let you know, and I wanna encourage you to keep your head above water, right? It's gonna be okay. It's gonna work out learning a new platform. Honestly, it might feel like you have to learn to write a book with your left hand and it can feel clunky, awkward but really, truly, I just wanna encourage you, practice really does make perfect. Right now, I am rolling out a full blown social media strategy for the church that I'm working in which is brand new, and I got two other youth pastors on my team, and we're posting regularly Nick Clason (20:47): Three times daily to TikTok, and I can do it, I'm used to it. I've learned TikTok, I'm familiar in the editing framework in the app But the problem with that is twofold. Number one, if I just do it if you go to our TikTok channel, and already it is this way, but because I'm trying to slowly hand more and more stuff off to them, if you go there, you're gonna see a lot of me, and we're a team of three. And so our digital expression does not fully represent who we really are because there's three of us, not just me. And so that's problem number one. Problem number two is it's not beneficial for me to hoard and hold it all right? So I need to get them up to speed and feeling comfortable editing things so that they're also on social media and we're seeing their representation on our TikTok account. Nick Clason (21:52): And then finally, this one dovetails very closely to what I just said and list some help. Get on this with some friends, maybe some coworkers, maybe even use some students in your church, in your ministry who are much more native to some of these platforms. You don't have to try and learn it on your own because honestly, remember what Paul said, our job as pastors and ministry leaders is to equip the saints for works and acts of service. So that is the goal. The goal is not for you to be holding onto it all and entirely. So, hey guys, thank you so much for hanging out today on this episode. If you found this helpful, go download the seven Steps social media framework for reaching Gen Z and Gen Gen Alpha. It's gonna be live on my Youth Min or short MYM on YM360 here soon. Nick Clason (22:50): Ugh, it is behind a little bit of a membership paywall. I will warn you of that, but especially if you are in youth ministry, that membership is very much going to be well worth your time. So I'd really encourage you to go check it out and hang out with us. This full transcript is gonna be available hybridministry.xyz if you want to use it as convince your boss or to help thinking through the big picture realities of why social media matters. If you need to talk to a parent, a leader, a pastor, about why this is important, especially for you're in a ministry where you're leading the charge on that or come hang out with us on Twitter @hybridministry. Again, guys, thank you so much for hanging out had fun talking, chatting with y'all, and we will talk again next time.
SUMMARY In this episode, Nick sits down with his friend, Derry Prenkert, a 20+ year youth ministry veteran. Derry shares about the monumental shift of the invention of the smart phone. How things were before, and how things have shifted, but most importantly, how we utilize this technology for our benefit and gain to reach more students for the mission of Jesus. Follow us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Find all the resources you need from the podcast http://www.hybridministry.xyz Follow Derry online: -TWITTER: https://twitter.com/derryprenkert -INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/derryprenkert/ -PODCAST: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/my-third-decade-in-youth-ministry/id1338273697 SHOWNOTES Steve Job's introduction of the iPhone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7qPAY9JqE4 Derry's Parenting Resource: https://www.downloadyouthministry.com/p/adolescence%2C-technology-and-parenting/training-3996.html Johnny Mac's Stuff: https://yourhouseblend.com/jonnysblend TIMECODES 00:00-03:30 Intro 03:30-10:53 The impact of the invention of the iPhone 10:53-14:30 What happened in ministry after the invention of the iPhone 14:30-23:20 How have you responded since then? 23:20-32:44 When do you ask phones to be put away? 32:44-41:23 How can we utilize technology now to further and advance God's mission? 41:23-43:38 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Excited to be with you today. Uh, today we have our very first, uh, guest interview, uh, friend of mine Derry Pinker. He's located in, um, Amish town, Nape Indiana. Um, right now, uh, he worked at that church for over 20 years, and then he was at another church for just a couple years, super large church in, uh, Kentucky. So, um, excited to bring you Derry's conversation. Uh, he mentions a couple of different links. He talks about Steve Jobs' keynote, a resource that he has on download youth ministry and echo ministry. I'm gonna include all of those in the show notes, but without any further ado, let's just hop in so you can get to know Derry. Nick Clason (00:51): All right, well, what's up Derry? Good to have you on the podcast. Welcome, man. Derry Prenkert (00:56): Yeah, it's so good to be with you, Nick. Thanks for having me on. Nick Clason (00:58): Yeah. So as we were talking a little bit before I hit record here, you have a podcast or did, or what would you define the, the existence of your podcast? Right Now? Derry Prenkert (01:11): The status of my third decade. It is, it has been on the longest hiatus ever. Um, yeah. And it is coming back. Um, it's tied to this whole world of the shift that I've, I've made from being in a local church to now serving pastors in the local church. Yeah. And I'm in a season of getting all the groundwork laid for that. I, uh, have every intention, every intention by, uh, early 2023 that it's gonna launch back out. And there are some, there are actually some things already recorded for it, so, so it hasn't completely gone away. There, there is, there is a future to it. Nick Clason (01:46): That's good. Cuz it's still in my podcast catcher, so I'm not unsubscribing from, I just wanna let you know that it's still there. So, um, but back when I mowed the lawn when I worked two churches ago, I think I heard you, um, talk about like, uh, this really big shift in culture and you noticed that it was, uh, have to do with when the iPhone came into existence. Mm-hmm. , just give us a little bit, like give us your story, how long you've been, you know, doing youth ministry, um, and how you have a beneficial perspective of before technology and phones are a part of what we have to navigate and deal with. And then post, and then maybe we can just kind of chat about how we navigate that as, you know, people who are, uh, ministering to people, students, um, who are very much entrenched in this technology, like Lane and world. Derry Prenkert (02:42): Yeah, absolutely. So, um, my story is somebody that started in youth ministry at 19 years old. I was just about to turn 20 and I started an internship and that was back in 1996. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I'm old. Um, and so graduated from high school in 95, start in, in ministry in 96. And so I get 11 years of ministry. Um, and in those 11 years, uh, you know, cell phones, car phones were around when I started . Yeah. And cell phones were around when I finished college in 1999. But they were, they roamed the minute you got outside of about 10 miles from your house and you only use them in emergencies. And then, and then it moved into, you know, 2004, 2005, the razor flip. Flum was the coolest thing in the world is texting, kind of entered the picture mm-hmm. . Um, and then, you know, so I, but, but really it was 2007 when Steve Jobs holds up this, this phone. Derry Prenkert (03:36): And it's actually interesting to go back and watch, I don't know if you've ever watched that keynote when he does it. No, I should, but, but he, he, he introduces it and is pretty prophetic, like the level of what he's talking about where technology is heading. Cause he said this is gonna revolutionize and change. And he says, he says, What would happen if we were to introduce a computer operating system, a phone and a iPod all in one thing. Yeah. And that's, that's the heartbeat of what they did. Um, and actually I, I do a technology thing with parents, uh, adolescents, technology and parenting. Mm-hmm. , uh, what I do is, I'll actually, it's, it's a fun little exercise cuz if you think about, you got, most parents of teenagers right now are, are there children of the eighties if they're really, if they've got younger, like their youngest kids are teenagers now, nineties or maybe early two thousands mm-hmm. . And so what I do is I'll put up on the screen different, like, what was the technology of our time. And so like, you know, in the eighties you got like VCRs and corded phones and, and a Walkman or a giant computer that has a green screen maybe. Nick Clason (04:41): Yeah. I found the VCR yesterday in our building, so that was cool, Derry Prenkert (04:46): Dude. And, and did you try playing anything? Cause it probably just ate the tape, right? Nick Clason (04:49): Yeah, no, I was like, I don't, I don't even know if we would ever need this, but, Right. Yeah. Here it Derry Prenkert (04:53): Is. Yeah. Yeah. It's, see the, in the eighties in technology, like everything got fixed by blowing on it. Um, so like the VHS tape wasn't working. You blew on it. The, the Nintendo cartridge. Yep. You blew in that and then blew in the box. Mm-hmm. . So that was, you know, eighties in the nineties, you have cell phones come, you got the Discman mm-hmm. that I remember. I would, as the nineties I would run or exercise with a discman, but I had to be careful not to run too hard because the CD would skip Yeah. Nick Clason (05:17): As I skipping. I Derry Prenkert (05:18): Remember that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, early two thousands social media in MySpace shows up. Yep. But, you know, garins show up, Uhhuh, um, digital cameras are a big deal in another 2000 flat screen TVs. Right. So we walk through these different, different moments and I say in 2007, Steve Jobs holds up this, this little device. And everything I just said was around in those different decades now lives inside this single device. Mm. Interesting. It is your video games. It is your music, you know, it's your disc man, it's your VCR or your DVD player. It is your Nick Clason (05:53): Computer, your calendar. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (05:55): Yeah. It's everything. It's all there. And, and so for parents, it's just saying like, recognize how significant this shift is. And so for those of us in ministry, if we are in that age, it's important to recognize that for those of us that are, I I, a lot of youth pastors are maybe a little, um, younger than the parents that they have. Right. Remember, like, these are the parents you're working with that, that this shift has happened. It might be a little more native to you as a youth pastor if you're in your, your mid to early twenties mm-hmm. . But it's foreign. It's, it's, it's so different and, and it's, it's changed so much. Um, the two things to kind of say, when I look at youth culture, cuz that's where I spent a lot of my time Yeah. That I would say are huge, is, uh, one youth group in church. Derry Prenkert (06:40): I was at a church that ha drew from multiple high schools. And pre 2007, we were the place to go to connect with friends. Hmm. Um, now we saw God move and we were, we were, we were unapologetic that that wasn't the, that wasn't the primary point. The primary point was to encounter a relationship with Jesus, to understand your call, to be a part of this kingdom work. But the appeal for my kids, I'm gonna drop names that nobody knows from Wawa c high school at Northwood High School. Mm-hmm. and Goshan High School. Someone knows each other. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, uh, they can meet weekly at our place. Right. Uh, now with the institution of not only, you know, the, just the move of the cell phone with texting, but then once the iPhone came in, it wasn't just you, you could, you didn't have to go there to meet a place you could actually interact face to face, you know, through FaceTime, through, through, um, whatever it might be. Derry Prenkert (07:33): Google Meet all do different stuff. You could, you could do that over the phone. So it became less important. The other thing that's super intriguing is, I don't know about Eich, but the greatest day of my life, uh, as a teenager was when I turned 16 in one month in my town, because that was the day I could get my driver's license. Yeah. And by getting my driver's license, that meant a whole new, uh, level of freedom, empowerment, and ownership. Like that driver's license was my ticket to independence. Yeah. I've noticed, um, a major change. I can't believe how many kids I interact with that are like 16, 17 and, you know, we're doing an event. They're like, Hey, can I get a ride? I'm like, You don't have your license yet. Yeah. No. And, and, and, and I I don't have like the scientific proof to this, just the conversation. Derry Prenkert (08:25): Sure. It's, they're like, Why would I, why would I need it? Well, yeah, the big shift came like that that license was my way to get to my friends. Mm-hmm. and my community. Now, this, this thing that we can hold in our hands is our ticket to interact. And so, so like one of the, I guess like the big implication that I would throw out that is huge is it it has radically transformed our connectivity mm-hmm. , um, even with the people right next to us. Yeah. Um, so I mean, so many other thoughts, but there's, those are just a couple things like that we recognize. Another way I say it is like we basically now are carrying around super computers in our pockets. Yeah. That, uh, it's, they are that we're, we have, we have excessive, uh, access to information. We are, we are constantly connected. Um, and it's like invasive, you know, it's not like it's, when's the last time I I I, you can answer this or the people are listening, When's the last time you actually turned off powered down your phone Nick Clason (09:26): On your own? Well, mine's new, so never Derry Prenkert (09:29): Yeah. . Nick Clason (09:30): Right, Derry Prenkert (09:30): Right. And it's, it's like impossible to, like, they've made it so it's hard to do. And so it's always there. Now, now I might sound like I'm interesting. Yeah. I'm negative on this. I do mourn more in some things because I'm old and I'm an old guy sitting saying, Get off my lawn kids. You know, a little bit. But, um, but those are some of the things that I think are big that have changed. And so, so just the way we go about ministry has to change with it. It is in my mind, we measure time on before and after like, events that come to mind in youth ministry world, most youth pastors that were around before Columbine mm-hmm. and after Columbine, they know it changed the way you had to handle liabilities and safety Nick Clason (10:10): Measures. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (10:11): Mm-hmm. pre nine 11. Post nine 11 as a, as a culture, our life shifted on how we view, uh, things pre covid, post covid. We're still learning that all. Yeah. I still could make the argument pre iPhone and post iPhone, pre smartphone and post iPhone could be, could be the most significant watershed cultural moment that we've experienced in the LA since World War ii. Yeah. Nick Clason (10:35): I don't, one of, one of like, I, one of the guys I listen to a lot, his name, you know, Brady Shear mm-hmm. , he talks about this being the biggest communication shift that we've seen in 500 years. So he's referencing that being the printing press. Yeah. And now with all this digital stuff. So that's a great call. Let's go like, let's go there a little bit. You said, um, pre iPhone people would gather from multiple high schools to your church. Did you notice that stopping, um, after, did you notice attendance shifting or did you just notice that still happens but there's, there's now just an iPhone in everyone's pocket and that's changing how they're interacting. But things are still, still sort of the same. Like, what would you say was, uh, like a, an actual effect, right? Yeah. Of that attendance thing you're talking about. Derry Prenkert (11:25): This is not scientific at all. It's very guttural and it's nature. Uh, and it's my experience, I would say it didn't, for some it stopped. But I would say the bigger thing is it got more sporadic. In fact, you we're just talking, I don't know, it would be fascinating. You know, they talk about how people are coming to church less often Right. Than they used to. That a regular attendant is, attender is considered once every month or once every three weeks. Right? Yep. I wonder how that correlates to the institution of like the, the actual cell phone and smartphone because Yeah, because that was the thing. Like pre pre smartphone, um, even kids from the same school, there was the chance to just, you know, we're not just going through in passing periods. We're gonna have a small group time. We're gonna have a pre hangout post hangout mm-hmm. Derry Prenkert (12:09): once a week. This is my guaranteed time. I'm gonna get time with my friends. Yeah. Um, and so it got more sporadic. Yeah. Uh, definitely. And, and that could be in part because they could have the community outside of the youth group. Um, but it still, that's why I would, I would still be a firm believer. There is a limitation to what you can accomplish over digital. I think anybody that truly had to walk through the PA pandemic and live completely on a screen would a hundred percent agree with me. You can't replace, um, interpersonal in person reaction Totally. With digital. But you can find more connection or, or you can find connection in the gaps through that. And so I think it got more, um, more sporadic, uh, in nature. And yes, they are showing up with them. And I mean, man, whew, how many conversations do I have? Derry Prenkert (12:58): I had with parents and leaders on, We gotta, we gotta, we gotta like force kids to turn these off or tell 'em they can't have 'em at all. And then, and then the issue of parents talking about what age do I give my kid a phone? When do I not? Because not only are they carrying it around, I mean, it's just, it's just there. And so the amount of attention that was going down to it when they were around that, that I'd say kinda really hit in the two, like 2014 15 phrase when everybody got one. Mm-hmm. , uh, everybody had one. Nick Clason (13:28): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, even my kids in first grade and his teacher sended stuff on his like e backpack and then his like e folder and he has like iPad time. Like, so my sort of thing is, while you may lament the loss of some of what was prefo and pre-technology, um, it's not going anywhere. And so, you know, cuz I, I'm with you sometimes I have leaders who are like, We just need to get rid of the phones, take 'em away from the kids. Like make sure that they, you know, only use paper bibles and that, you know, it's, it's wrong to read God's word on a screen type of thing. And that's, that's a high preference maybe mm-hmm. . And there may be some validity to some of those things, but the fact of the matter is like, why, You know, my argument is why are we discouraging a kid from reading the Bible if it's super accessible to them and in their pocket 24 hours a day? Nick Clason (14:25): Um, you know, so, So what have you noticed or what are some of the things that you've done realizing like, we can't, we can't get ourselves away from these. They are everywhere. They're on all the time. They are our everything. Our day planner, our calendar and our social life in a lot of ways. You know, like what are some of the things that you've, you've tried to embrace as a youth pastor, um, to maybe leverage them or lean into them and then maybe what are some of the times that you've discouraged use of them? Because you're like the, the, you know, the re the result of what's gonna happen here physically is gonna be greater than what is happening if you're on your Derry Prenkert (15:02): Phone. Yeah. It's great. Um, in the thing I do with parents, which total shameless plug, it's actually on D ym, you get it, download Youth Mystery Nick Clason (15:12): And then you have an extra $4 in your pocket. Yeah, yeah, Derry Prenkert (15:15): Yeah. From that roof. Yeah. It's called Adolescents Parenting and Technology. I use an illustration. I, and I, it's an illustration that, that hit me is our phones are a knife, um, and a knife, uh, can serve many purposes. Uh, a knife is, can be used to spread butter. It can be used to whittle wood to make, uh, amazing things. It can be, it can be, uh, used to, you know, cut through things that are hard to cut through. It also can be used to kill people. Um, it's really about what is happening with the person that has it in their hands. And a part of that is what's their intentions as well as what's their awareness of a knife. You know, I've got, you've got younger kids. Mm-hmm. , I had a six year old that early on, he just got us obsessed with our steak knives when he was three or four. Derry Prenkert (16:03): And we had to like, put those things up high cuz he just, he didn't understand the danger involving those knives. Right. Um, and, and so, uh, so with that, like, with that illustration in mind and looking at it that way, I, I look at this thing, a knife is really, for the most part neutral. Unless it's this crazy butcher knife that is, for the most part, a knife is neutral. It's what you're doing with it in your hands. So then it becomes about making sure to check your motives as well as prepare the person that has it in their hands to use it in the right way and to know how to use it in the right way. And, um, I think in that, like, especially if we're talking to ministers and I, I would put this across the board, in fact mm-hmm. , I would argue that senior pastors teaching pastors should be coaching, uh, 50, 60 year olds how to utilize their phones wisely, even more so than those that are just growing up with it, a native part of their life. Derry Prenkert (17:03): Hmm. Um, cuz I don't see a lot of students, uh, just making a fool of themselves on how they treat people on, on social media is, uh, as much as I see adults, uh, in what they're saying and everything else. So, so the, it's across the board. Like we have a responsibility to look at what does scripture say about, especially from a discipleship aspect of how we are to love our neighbors ourselves, and then how does it play out on this thing, you know? Mm-hmm. . So, so that would be, that would be a thing. So, um, so that's just, sorry, little rant there, but the knife and, and, and we, we have a responsibility to show them. Uh, I am a big fan Nick, of just intentionality in ministry overall. I think a lot of pastors, uh, I'm, I'm dedicating really, I feel like the second, second half of my life is I just want youth pastors and any pastors to be healthy in ministry. Derry Prenkert (17:53): And a big part of that is guarding your own heart. Um, another part is just thinking clearly and strategically in Christ's focus and inten and intentionality in what you're doing is a big part of that. Um, and so I would, I would argue that anybody that is in charge of a program, uh, a ministry, uh, any regular ministry gathering, there should be a side to say, Okay, what's our philosophy in how phones play into this? Mm-hmm. . And it can take up a lot of different forms. Yeah. One is what's our, so we're gonna be teaching this series, How's it showing up on their phones? Mm-hmm. , are we gonna do digital notes that they can look at while they're in the room? Are we going to do follow up stuff through social media that's gonna create interaction? Um, you've done some great stuff on the importance of don't just use your social media of as a, as a billboard that uses this interactive place. Derry Prenkert (18:47): You know, thinking through those things. Mm-hmm. , um, how are we going to actually handle the phones inside the space? What are, are, are, uh, uh, to what, what do we need to take into account if a middle school, I, I'm helping out in middle school right now, and I'm at a pretty conservative community mm-hmm. where I'd say it's six through eight grade, I would say no more than half the kids are, are actually walking in with smartphones. Now I know some would go, That's ridiculous. Well, that's my community. Sure. So I need to be thinking through, um, that I, I have to have a path for the non phone user. Right. But also I need to be thinking through for the phone user to begin to show them now. Like, Hey, if you're gonna follow Jesus, that plays out in this thing. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (19:28): So how do we do that? So what, what am I teaching? You know, when I get to the practical steps of my teaching, how am I intentionally saying, Hey, this is how this plays out on your phone. You know, that can be a part of it. Um, and then, and then I think, uh, there's just the overall, uh, idea of, I, I have kind of these categories I think through that I want to try to do inside the programming. And this is very youth ministry specific. I want to have times where, uh, where they have it and it's on, but they're encouraged to put it to, to the side mm-hmm. and not access it at all. Because, because we need to be able to do that in real life at times. Mm-hmm. , you know mm-hmm. . And so small groups, a lot of times, I don't know if you have this some, sometimes they'll do like the basket or, or, or things to say, Hey, it's here. Derry Prenkert (20:14): Or just even stack them in the middle of the room like, it's here, but we're not gonna use Oh yeah. Use that right now. Yeah. And, um, or it's just even a, Hey, let's put this in our pockets. Just hang tight with me for a little bit. Um, then there's then there's times where it's like off or not there at all. And we can talk about that one a little bit more. Probably it'd be a good one of, of, Hey, this is a no cell phone situation. Yeah. I think that's very debatable on how much we're often, but there's times where it's important to just, I mean, uh, solitude, simplicity, um, making sure that we're not controlled by things all apart of following Jesus. But then most importantly is we're gonna have times where we use this thing in a redemptive manner. Yeah. Um, we're gonna find ways. Derry Prenkert (20:57): So, so we are closing out and we've talked about, uh, the importance of praying for others and what ha you know, maybe we're doing a series on prayer and it's about praying for others. And, and what we say is, Okay, here's what we're gonna do right now. If you have a phone, I want you to pull it out and I'm just gonna ask the Lord to speak to us, to give you a name right now as somebody you could pray for. Hmm. And, and now I want you to pull out your phone and I want you to text them, not not, not text them that you are praying for them, actually text out what your prayer for them is. Hmm. Or when you walk out the room tonight, I want you to use that little voice memo thing. I did this this morning. Uh, I got a friend who just started first day in ministry today. I, I did a voice memo to him that was just solely my prayer and that was it. Like, here's my prayer for you today as you started on ministry. Yeah. That's cool. So, so finding ways to use it, redemptively. So again, I kind of went different, but use it redemptively. Find ways to put it to the side, find ways to turn it off or not have it there at all. And do all of that intentionally. Nick Clason (21:51): Yeah. I mean, a lot, a lot of what we say on here is that digital and physical, uh, both are important, but they're both categorically different. And so that's why I do think there is value in things that are strictly physical only. I think, like you said, we learned a lot of things about ourselves and people during covid when what was physical could not be completely replicated digitally. Yeah. Um, and vice versa. Right. And that's, that's the thing too, is like, I think the vice versa piece is like, there are some digital things that are digital only, like mm-hmm. me. Like you can do message recaps and, and things like that where you're calling back to what you did, um, throughout the week. Like on things like social media where people are not physically gathering in your room on a Tuesday morning, or they can be reading a u version plan on their own when they wake up on Thursday afternoon, you know, at lunch, whatever. Nick Clason (22:46): So mm-hmm. , that's, that's this whole idea of hybrid is it's, there is room for, for physical only. And there's also space, I think for digital. And that's part of the thing is we've, and I think a lot of churches are kind of running up into this, is they're, uh, Hey, you're, you're a youth pastor so you have to do all of it. Mm-hmm. , it's like these are two completely like different lanes. And so there's, I mean, there's staffing conversations and budget conversations I think like around all these things that are gonna be coming, coming down the pike at, at churches, so mm-hmm. , what would you say are times, um, maybe where you would, you would say, Hey, let's put phones away all together. Maybe talk about like camp situation Sure. Or, or retreats or whatever. Yeah. I'm sure that's probably one of the, the main ones that comes to people's minds. Derry Prenkert (23:32): Yeah. Yeah. Nick, you and I are a part of different youth ministry communities. Um, Facebook groups are a wonderful mess at times. . And one of the, one of the hot topics amongst many other things is when this gets asked of, Hey, what's your policy on cell phones? And it's interesting. It's like just hot takes start firing all over the place. Right. So, um, I was a part of one church for 23 years mm-hmm. , and I was a part of another church for 2.3 years. That's my little joke, uhha. But, um, , uh, in the one church that I was at for 23 years that I also grew up where technology was unfolded. And we, we had a hard and fast rule that really any trip that we did, we started with the idea of no cell phones would be allowed. And it was because we had a high emphasis on interactivity and, and, and it, cell phones weren't around when we set the rule. Derry Prenkert (24:24): It was, you can't bring your walkmans, your discmans your game boys because we're here to interact with each other. And the minute you look down on that thing, you're not there. So that just kind of lended itself over to cell phones and everything else. Mm-hmm. . And so, um, so any camp retreat, anything like that, we just, we put a pretty hard and fast rule with the one except perception being our senior retreat that we do with grads. We'd say, Hey, you can bring it. It was almost like this. Oh, you're old enough now. I, I don't know that I liked the motives in it, um, in, in it all. So, but then I went to, uh, another church where it was like, you can have them all the time mm-hmm. . Um, which, and the interesting thing I saw was effective ministry was taking place in both situations. Derry Prenkert (25:09): Um, but we hadn't really stopped and re strategized in my 23 year church to say, Hey, we're kind of, we kind of just stumbled into this, but these things are so much a part of his life. So we need to understand when we ask a kid to leave theirself at home, we're asking them to leave their most prized valuable mm-hmm. , um, possession mm-hmm. at home. Um, and then at the other church it was like, it's all there. But where we really said, Hey, how are we, are we, are we assessing how we're we're using these? And so I don't, I don't come from the mindset that says definitely no. Or definitely yes. As much as, again, back to that word, intentionality. Yeah. Um, have a plan. Yeah. Talk about it. So, so where we really landed, where at the church I was just at, was, um, if the event is going to be primarily focused on those that don't know Jesus coming into the situation, we're gonna be very hesitant to say he phones. Derry Prenkert (26:06): Yeah. Because they're not gonna get the idea of it. If the event is, is high, um, service based, um, intentional discipleship mm-hmm. and deepening, we're gonna stop and say, Hey, you know what, let's, this might be a time, Yeah. Let's evaluate this, where we're gonna maybe more lean toward this is a no-go, but then we're gonna say, here's why it's a no-go. If it's heavy discipleship, it's gonna say, this is gonna be a significant time. Where the primary things we're gonna do is we're gonna focus in on your connection with God and your connection with others, and we're gonna challenge you to find ways to do that outside of the technical technological world. Can you do that inside the technological world? Absolutely. But we see the value of a break. Um, and so that's kind of where we landed. Uh, but I mean the, the, I'm back, I'm back around the church that I was at for 23 years, though a lot of the rules are still in place that if it's a trip or retreat, it's no go. The interesting thing is, um, parents hated a whole lot more than students did. Nick Clason (27:03): Yeah. Now they were the one were noticing that too. Yep. Derry Prenkert (27:05): Yeah. If you, I would argue you wanna try to institute a no cell phone rule and you don't have it, it's gonna be really hard and it may not be worth the fight and it won't be because the kids, it's gonna be the parents. Parents are be, How do I get a hold of Johnny? Yeah. And, you know, in whatever case. Um, but, but when we take seniors on the retreat, when we were taking them, you know, and we'd allow to have phones, it just naturally had come up in conversations. They would go, Wait, are you gonna start allowing this for other kids on your, on, on campus? Like, we didn't have. And and I'm like, and, and I'd get into the conversation with 'em like, Oh, are you ticked because you had to suffer through not having 'em. Yeah. And you're, and you wanna make sure they get punished like you did. Derry Prenkert (27:42): And the seniors would be like, No, no. Like, I'd love that. We didn't have 'em. Yeah. I, I I actually would come back from camp. So grateful that you really pushed that on us for that time. Mm-hmm. . Now, is that right or wrong? No, I, I like, does that mean that you absolutely shouldn't do it? No, but it was just, it's an interesting aspect to it all. So again, long, long talking to just say it's about intentionality, it's about thinking through why would we want to do this? Mm-hmm. and then, and then making sure to communicate to those that are participating. And if it's in youth ministry, the parents of saying here's why. Yeah. Um, and then being ready for a fight, if you wanna say No phones. Cause it's, it's a challenge. Nick Clason (28:20): Yeah. That, No, that's really good. And again, right, like there's things that only physical can accomplish and there's things that only digital can accomplish. And I think an experience like a camp or whatever, there is a lot of connection that needs to take place. And most students, and you know, back to what you said earlier, people in church like don't know how to live in a world where it's just that where their phone isn't constantly dinging or lighting up or vying for their attention. And so I, I too have noticed in those types of environments where students, people are like grateful and thankful or say, man, like I'm, I haven't even like, wanted my phone. They're kinda surprised by it. You know, that that's, that's kind of the case. So Yeah. It's so Derry Prenkert (29:05): Interesting. Can I give two practical, just real practical tips if you choose to do no phones, especially if you're a youth pastor. Yeah, yeah. Um, one is bring in a, at at least one, maybe multiple people who's their sole job is to capture photos and videos of the experience mm-hmm. . And at the beginning of the experience, make sure that the students know who that person is, because one of the things you're asking them to sacrifice is Nick Clason (29:28): Capturing, capturing Derry Prenkert (29:30): The memories Nick Clason (29:30): Of Derry Prenkert (29:31): It all. And that's bigger than ever, right? Yeah. Because they can do that. And so making sure that that's there, and then making all those photos and videos available as soon as you possibly can. Um, and I, I noticed that, um, the, a camp I was at this summer there, the photographer was actually uploading those, um, to their social media platform, like with a link while the camp was there, even though the kids didn't have phones, so that as soon as they got home within like one hour, the kids were like posting their, you know, their real, their reels that recaps, like that's good. Building up all the stuff on the, That's really good. So I think that's a big one. And then two is think through your strategic feedback loop to parents. The parent freakout is, I don't, I, how do I know? Well mm-hmm. Derry Prenkert (30:14): , if you have a, a way of saying, Hey, here's, here's where you can go, um, whether it's a Facebook page or group, or if it's your Instagram, or if it's even like a, a remind, uh, setup or whatever, texting, like, here's where it's at. We found that Facebook lives where you could at a camp mm-hmm. , um, actually doing a, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go live at this time. I'm actually gonna give you a little glimpse into the session just for a short bit so you can just see what's going on and then come back and update you. And the beauty of a Facebook Live, every parent is still on Facebook, uh, for the most part. So they, they, they're there and so they can jump on live and then you can let it sit there. So, um, but those two things will, will go a long way in helping the resistance you might get. Um, when it comes to the no phone Nick Clason (31:00): Rule. Yeah. We, we, we do, we've done like a photographer and my, my favorite, and it always depends on like if the church or I have the budget to pull this off, but like get a videographer as well, or the same person, um, and have them do a daily, like, recap video. Those are great for opening your like sessions, but they're also amazing to throw up on YouTube and then text a link out. And so, you know, parents who, uh, send their kids without phone or whatever, they feel this like sense of relief if like they see their kid. Absolutely. Then the downside is one, one time I had to, uh, remove a clip because a kid was like picking his nose and the mom like, wanted it out. Yeah. Um, and then another time ano a mom was like, I haven't seen my kid in any of the recap bees. Yeah. And I'm trying not to freak out, but like, are they having fun? Like, are they making friends? Like, and I get it, like as a, as a dad myself, you know, now, like I would also want to try and like lay eyes on my kids. So Derry Prenkert (32:01): Totally same. Totally same. Actually Gabe, the pastor at the church that I'm serving with now, he did a meal time at camp and he just said, Okay, who needs to see their kid Facebook Live, , who needs to see their kid? And he just went around and said, funny. And he put up the phone, he said, Tell your mom you're okay. And, and it was like one of the most viewed Yeah. There are a lot of people there, so Yeah. And that is legit. And it's, you gotta be ready for it for that whole world. And, um, it is, that is evidence again, of the different world. And, and as a parent of a high schooler and a middle schooler, I wasn't at the high school camp. I was at the middle school camp. I was watching for my kid. Yeah. Derry Prenkert (32:38): That I didn't quite quite realize. So. Nick Clason (32:40): All right. Last, last thing. Um, how can we, as pastors, people in ministry, what are ways there that you see that we can optimize technology, um, now Cause like the overall mission, right? Of the church mm-hmm. to make disciples. And Paul used, you know, the thing available to him writing letters at the time to reach churches that he was not near. So what are some ways, just maybe a couple ideas off the top of your head that you have seen effective or ideas that maybe you haven't seen totally fleshed out, but are ruminating inside. Like Yeah. Where we can use what is available to us in technology. I mean, even the fact that I'm sitting in Texas here in northern Indiana and we're having this conversation and we're seeing each other, like, that's an advantage that wasn't available to us pre 2007. Right. And so, uh, what are some of those things maybe that you have seen or have thought about that we can use to our advantage to help kids take steps closer to Jesus? Derry Prenkert (33:40): Yeah. Let me throw you a little bit of a curve on where I might go with this to start only, um, in that I've been a part of large to very large churches mm-hmm. , and you've been a part of larger churches where there's a budget that's available and mass communication through technology. And so our minds might immediately go to Yeah. Podcasts and video streams mm-hmm. and, uh, you know, Instagram and getting somehow in with you version so you can build up a Bible reading plan. And I Yes. Yeah. Nick Clason (34:10): But I would it if you can Derry Prenkert (34:11): Yeah. I would say pastors and ministers to remember to that this is an incredible one to one ministry tool still mm-hmm. . And so, um, and, and this has gotten especially big to me as I've shifted over into this world now where my primary job that I says God's called me to is just to pastor pastors, especially those that are youth pastors. Well, they're all over the nation. Yeah. And so, um, last night, Sunday night for me, I'm recognizing I was just like, Lord, who are the people right now that might just kind of be in that spot that a word of encouragement or a check-in could go a long way? And there were, there were four texts that were sent out to individuals going, Hey, you're on my mind. How did today go? Or what's going on in your mind? Woke up this morning and like I already told you about, there was one guy that is first day he shifted from the education world to the church world. Derry Prenkert (35:03): Hmm. And so, um, so I, I would just start by saying yes, I mean, as we think about the massive ways to do it, let's not forget that pastoring at its best that's good is a one to one, a one to three relationship mm-hmm. . And so, uh, connecting with our parishioners are people that we're discipling, whoever they might be, uh, through the phone and doing it healthily and thinking through safeguards and all those things are really important, especially for youth pastors. Um, which probably is a whole other episode to talk through at some point. . Yeah. But, um, but to understand like, this is a ministry tool at its core. And so a a properly placed text, phone call, FaceTime, um, like, or comment on a, um, on a, on a post, uh, can is, is ministry, like, is deep ministry and meaningful ministry at times. Derry Prenkert (35:53): Mm-hmm. . Um, That's great. It was interesting Nick, uh, my former youth pastor, uh, my dad died 10, uh, 13 years ago now, and my former youth minister is no longer in youth ministry. And, but it was an incredible influence on my life. Mm-hmm. . And it was about, uh, it was, it was right around eight years after my dad had died, I posted just a memory of him and below in the comment section, my old youth pastor got on and he, all he wrote was, I'm so proud of you Derry. And I read that and I lost it. And, and I talked to him and, and what happened in that moment was like, I realized, uh, can, like, thank you. I miss I miss having my dad, and I'm not, I don't have a dad that can physically say to me, I'm proud of you anymore. Derry Prenkert (36:39): And I'm, I'm like a 36 year old man, like blubbering over my youth pastor telling me he's proud of me. But it's because he, he, in that moment, he ministered to me through a simple comment on a Facebook group mm-hmm. that also helped me work through some grieving that I was at. I hadn't really just walked through and said, God, I'm kind of ticked, I'm kind of ticked right now because I've lost, like, why did this happen? And, and it helped me kind of break through to a new level. And so, so anyway, like just, I, I, that's the one thing I would just say is as we think through the strategic and the greater stuff, let's not forget this is a incredible tool for the most effective ministry that is relational and personal in nature. That's good. That's good. Um, um, I would say otherwise though too is, um, I have a good friend, John McAllen, Johnny Mack, he did this thing, he started, it was called Echo Ministry. Derry Prenkert (37:25): And the idea was how do you take and create echos of what's happening on the, on the weekend? How do you have the message echo through the rest of the week? And our technology, our cell phones are such a primary tool to make that happen. You said it so well, there are things that we can do now because we have these, um, where it can show up in the moment, in, in different ways, uh, whether it's, uh, uh, a thinking through, uh, devotional journey, like I said, through you version. Mm-hmm. , uh, uh, the youth group that I just was at for the last couple of years, they're doing a thing called sale up Moments every week. They have just one moment that, that where they, they use on social media where they say, Okay, you're scrolling through, but stop, exhale, um, and listen to God allow 'em to speak to you. Derry Prenkert (38:16): You know? And there's a whole acronym to it. I can't remember what the H was good. Yeah. I like that. You know, have a burger, I think was the last, no, I can't remember what the H was, but, um, they, they, they walked through it and, and so using that was, um, was, was a way to do it. So I, I think it's that matter of how can we echo it mm-hmm. . And there's a lot, you know, podcasts can be a part of it. Uh, I started something called Digging Deeper with our main services when I was, uh, at my own church. And, and what we did was every Wednesday I would sit down with whoever was preaching mm-hmm. . And if I, I, I was a part of the teaching time. If I was preaching, somebody else would come in and the first thing we'd say, Hey, hey, what hit the cutting room floor? Derry Prenkert (38:53): What were you not able to get to this weekend that you wish you could have? And people just love that aspect, but then we would pick it part a little bit more mm-hmm. . And so, and it, it's not hard. It's a, you know, get, get a little basic, um, Yeah. Recording set up and you can get it set up pretty easy. Um, and so there's just so many ways, but I would just start with the, like, how can we echo into the week, what happened on the weekend Yep. And use it on a digital format. Nick Clason (39:16): Yeah. No, that's good. I, I also personally think that we don't know yet like, the answer to some of these questions. Yeah. Like, I still think that there's, uh, things yet to be discovered, you know, in front of us. And so I think, uh, if there's any sort of like, challenge for anyone listening, I would just say like, just do something. Um, and you may stumble upon something great. You may find some stuff that's terrible and you need to cut it out. Um, but if you're, if you're always looking that direction, uh, you'll, you'll stumble upon something good that you maybe don't even know, or you maybe didn't, you know, you maybe weren't even able to see it right now when you started it because of a limited technology or budget or whatever. And so just be looking for ways. Cuz like I said, it's less, I think, I personally think it's easy to make digital about being flashy, um, or whatever, looking good to parents or other youth pastors or other people in ministry, whatever. Nick Clason (40:15): But I think it's far less about that for me at least, and it's more about how effective can I be in spreading the message of Jesus with all the tools that he's given to me. Yeah. Like, I'm, I'm alive in 2022 with access to podcast microphones and phones that can take incredible videos and pictures, like mm-hmm. , how am I going to use steward those things to reach the most amount of people, you know, that have an audience to reach. So I think that's, that would be my challenge to whoever's listening is think what Dare said, think through all the things that, with intentionality, Um, and then just be open, you know, to, to utilizing some stuff. Derry Prenkert (40:52): So yeah. You're, you're so right on. We don't have it all figured out. Probably one of my greatest pet peeves in life are, uh, those that are convinced they have it all figured out. Um, Yeah. and I, I, I can do that at times. And usually when I'm at that point and I'm like, Oh yeah, I know how to do this. Mm-hmm. , that's the moment when I will fall flat on my face. And so, so there's a ton to be learned. There's a ton to be determined I love, or Nick Clason (41:14): That's when a new iPhone comes out, Right. And you're like, Oh, this changed everything. Or Covid hit and this changed everything. So yes. Totally. Good. Yes. I think we're living through that. Well, hey man. Um, anything else off top of your head? You don't have to, but I just wanna make sure you said everything you wanted to say. Didn't leave anything unsaid. Derry Prenkert (41:30): I think the only thing I would maybe end with is in that same vein is, um, it's everywhere. It's so much. Uh, also don't be afraid to not feel like you have to do everything, you know? Um, uh, especially to the minister that's trying to think through how to do effectively. There is a, there is a moment where less is more because your soul needs to rest, you know? Mm-hmm. , if you're finding yourself trying to, uh, late at night when you should be being around your family, invest your family or on your day off going, this is the time while Ill dive into all this digital stuff. Eh, you know what, maybe, maybe that's, uh, not worth it. No, not, maybe it definitely is not worth it. Definitely not worth, There's just, that's the part of like this thing, there's just so much out there. Mm-hmm. don't, I, I I guess it's like that idea of don't gain the digital world at the cost of your soul. Yeah. good is, is, is a big thing. And I just, I say that out of a season where I'm just seeing so many of us burn out. Um, and we're burning out in a lot of different ways, but one is because we're just constantly on and we don't hit the off switch. That's Nick Clason (42:34): Good. That's good. Love it, man. Well, hey, thanks again. Uh, you referenced a couple things in here. I'll toss 'em in show notes, like your resource on D ym so that all tens of our listeners can go get it. There you go. Um, anyway, thanks for hanging out man. And uh, absolutely. We'll chat again. Chat again. Yeah. Awesome. Nick Clason (42:52): Well, wasn't that great, Uh, super thoughtful, super helpful. Um, I hope that you found this interesting and helpful as well. Hey, um, we are online on Twitter at Hybrid Ministry. Would love to have you come hang out, follow us over there. Um, we're still growing, not super active yet, but, uh, we're well on our way. And also everything you need, show notes, links, transcripts, all kinds of stuff. You can find out hybrid ministry.xyz along with a now growing bank of archive and older episodes. So if you're just not stumbling upon us, we'd love to have you go back and check it out. Uh, you can do all of that at hybridministry.xyz (http://www.hybridministry.xyz) Ze. Again, thanks for being with us today and we'll chat next time.
SUMMARY In this episode, Nick recounts some of his most recent experiences, and pokes the question at: "Why are we doing, what we're doing in churches?" If our ultimate aim is disciple-making (Mt 28) then is the method we're operating in a church the most effective form of doing that? Follow us on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What is up everybody. And welcome back to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast. On today's episode, I just wanted to have a quick conversation, a brain dump, if you will, about why we do what we do as Christians in church. And you know what I mean by that is there's a lot of moving parts in any organization if you're running a business or if you're an accountant or if you run a plumbing company or whatever, right? There's logistics, there's email, there's it, there's booking, there's scheduling, there's accounting, there's marketing, there's branding and color schemes and merchandising and content creation and social media. I mean, there's a million layers to everything, and the church is not exempt from that. And so what I wanna do, like I said, give just a quick little brain dump here. This is something that's been swirling around in my brain. Nick Clason (01:09): I am your host, Nick Clason. If you and I have not had a chance to meet, so excited that you're jumping on this, uh, podcast with me today. Um, I, we, we, we, uh, have this podcast, the Hybrid Ministry Podcast, because we are attempting to live life out in a hybrid sort of way. We don't live in a physical only world anymore, but we don't live in a digital only world either. How do we marry those two things together? And how do we create a hybrid sort of experience, uh, for the people that we're trying to reach? Because, you know, me, my story, like I'm a pastor, and so I've been called by God to reach people, make disciples, um, and share with them the mi, the mission, message, and hope found only in Jesus. And so how do we do that? And so for, you know, the majority of our lifetime, uh, we've done that through the local body, um, of the church. Nick Clason (02:03): And I believe that that's, that's a theological, um, understanding of what we have going on, right? Like the theological implications, Hebrew chapter 10, verse 24 and 25, Let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Not giving up meeting together is somewhere in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another in all the more, as you see the day approaching, it's a biblical mandate for us to do life together. And by no means am I proposing that we don't do that. Um, so like I said, I'm a pastor, um, specifically I'm a youth pastor, uh, work in the Dallas, Texas area. And I just started a new job, started a new job, um, at, uh, going on two months now at this point. But the first month was, uh, remote and traveling back and forth between Dallas and Chicago, where I, I lived before. Nick Clason (02:56): And so, yeah, I really only feel like I've been here like 20 something days or whatever since, you know, since I was able to kind of get in here full time and get things going. So, you know, one of the, and, and listen, before I jump into this, this could feel like a slight or a, you know, a dig at the church I'm at, or the churches that I've been in in my lifetime. And the fact is I'm very thankful for every single opportunity that I've been given. Um, I see how every, uh, stop in my journey, in my career, uh, has led me to a very specific spot in my life and how God has orchestrated, um, and paved those ways. And so, you know, there's some, uh, there's some jobs that I've had, you know, that, that have some hurt. Um, and there's definitely like some moments in my life and in my ministry career that, um, I've, you know, I've struggled with or whatever. Nick Clason (04:01): Um, but I'm thankful for each and every stop along the way. I'm thankful for what I've learned at each and every stop along the way, um, and how the Lord has used that to grow me and give me just a, a perspective. And so I say all that to say what I'm about to say. Uh, like I said, may seem like I'm poking holes, like I'm digging, like I'm frustrated and I want as much as I can to preface that and say, I'm really, I'm not okay, especially if you're my boss or HR person and you're signing my paycheck, very appreciative for the job that you've given me. But what I've most recently, especially in this most recent onboarding, and so where I work now, I'm thrilled. I love my job. I love what I do. Um, I love, you know, they believe in me and they're giving me opportunities to go out and run and innovate and try some stuff. Nick Clason (04:57): And so for that, I'm incredibly thankful. Um, however, a lot of this stuff is popping up in my brain because of the fact that I'm starting somewhere new. And so, while I'm incredibly thankful what I'm about to say when I'm about to kind of like, um, I dunno, shine a light on, if you will, may seem like I'm aiming it at the church that I'm currently employed at. And by no means am I trying to, like I said, shine a light and be frustrated, whatever. So I think of caveat of that enough, it's been like two minutes of caveat, so you're probably ready to hear what I'm about to say. So in the whole onboarding process, um, actually, lemme see if I can pull it up. Um, in my email, when I first started, I got, um, information on how to set up, uh, my account for our church database, church management software. Nick Clason (05:54): Um, I also got information on all my benefits, which obviously I need that, and I'm grateful for, and I'm thankful for, right? Um, let's see, what else do I, I got, I got information on, uh, how to join, like the staff, um, info portal, like, um, it's called leader, Uh, you know, so it's like that plus like, uh, what's, you know, uh, development and stuff like that. Um, email, um, expenses, a couple of different portals for expenses. Um, and then our request, uh, system, which is like requests and calendars, maintenance things. Um, and I'm trying to think what else. Oh, there's, then there's task management software, um, that I had to learn. Then there's keys and there's fobs, uh, to get into doors. And then there's meetings with like department heads, you know, so like, um, how do we, in our, like I'm a youth pastor, so how do we, um, interact with the tech team? Nick Clason (06:57): How do we interact with the worship team? How do we interact with the creative team? How do we interact with the communications team and how do we interact with the facilities team? Um, a lot of the answers to that fall under the systems and like portals that I just listed out. Um, however, there's another like meeting to just sort of like a get to know people and then be like, um, kind of hash it out, chat it out, right? And so I, again, I say all that to say like, there's a lot of focus on those things. And as a pastor, um, Jesus committed all of his disciples, including pastors, to go make disciples, make more disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, commanding them. Any promise that he'll be with us, promise us his presence. I'll be with you always to the very end of the age. Nick Clason (07:53): It's Matthew, uh, 28, 18 through 20. So I, I think, again, caveat, love, love my job. I think anyone that you're like questioning, like, why do we need this? Why do we, that this, the other thing, Well, those processes help make us more efficient so that we can, um, not waste time on details and tasks, and those things don't get dropped. And so then thus, therefore, we can be more effective and freed up to make disciples great. I mean, I agree with that. I agree with that on paper. Okay. And then, um, you know, you think about, think about like, what do we do as the church, right? So if I sit down, I'm like, Hey, I need to understand what my role as a youth pastor is in relation to worship, in relation to tech, in relation to facilities, right? Like, what does that, why, why is all that important? Nick Clason (08:57): Well, because I'm gonna be using the building. So we need the sound, the lights, the worship, the music, the facility to be ready, set up for a, you know, for what? For our event. Well, what's the purpose of our event? Well, that's to make disciples, right? It's really easy. And Ayanna, I can't remember who coined this term, you know, but I'm sure you've heard it before, right? There's, there's the tyranny of the urgent, right? There's always something more urgent, pressing. Like right now, I'm looking at my computer and I have one big red, uh, bubble on my email saying I have an unread email. And my human inclination, in fact, like computer companies, software companies, like they, they build it this way to give it like this, like, you know, urgency type of thing. So it's like, Oh, I gotta check that notification, right? That's, that's always the case. Nick Clason (09:55): We're always looking to figure out like, what is the most important thing? What do we need to handle most? And so in my church, we meet on Wednesday nights, we also meet on Sunday mornings. And so, and that's, I've had that rhythm before. Uh, but I, I'm most recently came from a church before this where we only had like one week worth of, uh, one thing per week of stu student ministry programming. So Wednesday and Sunday, like, that's, that's rapid to me. Like, it, it feels like much more, uh, much more frenetic of a pace. Frenetic is the wrong word, but like, the frequency is just doubled, right? It's from one time a week to not two times a week, Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday, Wednesday. And those gaps are shorter. And so to get my things done in between those two are quicker. And so, like I said, I'm always turning around and finding myself like, Oh, you know, I'm recording this on a Tuesday night, tomorrow morning, uh, is Wednesday, I'll be at church all day long. Nick Clason (10:51): And then, because I'm at church all day long on Wednesday, um, I will work most of my day on Thursday and be off on Friday. I gotta get everything between, you know, tomorrow and Thursday ready and locked and loaded for Sunday. And I may in fact get some stuff ready and locked and loaded for Sunday, tomorrow, on Wednesday before I ever even, uh, you know, host the next event. I'm two events ahead, right? And that's, if I'm really, you know, most people say, Oh, it's if you're really well planned and that's, you're really on top of things. And, and I like to think I am. However, that there, you know, there's always, like, you always work best under pressure. Um, there's actually like a psychological term of that called like forced focus. And so if you're forced to focus, like as you're zeroing in on an event, no matter how good, and well you are planned out, like, you'll come up with something, you're like, Shoot, it was a good idea. Nick Clason (11:47): I should have done that. You know, So anyway, all that right? Aha. That to be said, What, why are we doing church? Like, we're not in the event business, but we are a little bit, right? And here's why. This is a hybrid conversation because, uh, 10, even 10 years ago, maybe like 20 at the most, right? The way to gather together in the way to disseminate, uh, information, theological information, with the exception of the Bible in like print pieces, using printing press, books, magazines, whatever, newspaper articles, like the only way to distribute that information was through the local church. And so thus, the regular gathering was really important because you'd come together and maybe the church would have access to these print pieces of these magazines. They'd get 'em in bulk or whatever, and they'd provide them for their parishioners, their congregation members. But now, since the advent of the internet, all that stuff is available to people. Nick Clason (12:51): And so the novelty of church or the uniqueness that it brought, it, it almost feels like it's not there as much. And then again, what are we doing? Like, we're making disciples through the context of hosting events. And I, I, I, I think events matter, and I think they're important. Um, you know, but like, like I, I told you a couple episodes ago, go back and listen to it where I said, Hey, here's what we're, you know, trying to do on social media or whatever, Um, trying to launch some stuff. I just pulled TikTok open on my account, and that's why you heard some background noise on that. Um, and I'm gonna do it again right here, but, um, listen, like I, we posted a like sermon, uh, recap deal, um, couple weeks ago, and I had a 437 views on, on one of those, right? Nick Clason (13:49): That's one of my higher ones. That's, that's, you know, better than most. But here's the thing that's kind of crazy. Think about like, when I gather all my students together, um, I have like a hundred, a hundred students, and that's, that's good, right? That's, that's pretty big. Um, some, you know, somewhere between 102 hundred students all together, if everyone showed up, you, if you're a youth pastor, you know how this goes, right? And so, uh, what's more advantageous? Well, I know, I know the students in my room, so I have a captive audience. I'm able to disciple them a little bit better. I'm able to craft the message, um, so that they hear what, you know, maybe they need to hear whatever they're like struggling with or through. However, like the reach on TikTok is like five times that with that one video. You know, some videos are smaller, like, you know, the most recent one I think had like 19. Nick Clason (14:44): So it's, it's obviously a lot, a lot smaller. And, uh, TikTok is less about who you follow and more about being, being discovered. And so, um, what is the next step for those audience members and all that stuff. All all that being said, like I know I find myself being challenged to be a disciple maker, be a dis be a disciple myself, of Jesus, and out of the overflow of that, make more and better disciples of him. And the, the context or the fabric, which with which at least the majority of the time of my job is soaked into, is through executing and, um, planning events, maintaining a physical facility, and, you know, worrying about branding, messaging, signage, like all those ancillary pieces. And you know, when it's all said and done, like officially on my, like, I don't, I don't have a time sheet, I'm salaried, right? Nick Clason (15:53): But if I did like on my time sheet, like Sunday mornings with students is probably like two hours. And then Wednesday nights with students is another like two hours. And if I'm like a really good youth pastor and I'm like getting coffee or going to football games, let's say that's another like two to four hours. Like in my 40 hour week, I spend eight, eight hours a great week, maybe 10 hours if I'm like super over the top, like really on it with actual teenagers. And like, I get it, right? Like in Ephesians, Paul said, Equipped the saints for works and acts of service. And like you heard, to have a hundred, a hundred plus kids, like, and we have small group leaders that, you know, it's, it's technically their job on our, in our pipeline to like, make that happen. But like, call to make disciples. Nick Clason (16:45): And so again, I say all this to say like, I'm not disgruntled, not angry. I love my church. And quite frankly, like I'm here because I'm so passionate about this hybrid stuff and in marrying like the digital with the physical, not because I love digital so much, cuz I really don't, but because I think that, well, I know that there's 167 other hours a week that the one hour a week that kids are sitting in our service, in my church I have too. So 166 hours in addition in a student's life, what am I doing then? How am I reaching a student where they are? How are they learning, growing, developing deeper into the core characters of Christ and doing the things that he challenged them to do? How else are they coming across those things? If it's not just a wins in night when they're in the building with me, or on a Sunday morning when they're in the building with me. Like when else are they being challenged by their youth pastor, by their church to live out their faith, to live out their faith, to learn the knowledge, to understand the things and tenants of the Bible, but Nick Clason (17:48): Also then to carry out that message to their friends, to reach their friends who are far from Jesus, to, to share the message of hope, the gospel with their friends who don't know him, to grow deeper in their relationship, to hone their skills, their character, so that it mirrors more closely like Christ to, to follow what, what his mission was that he laid out. I mean, this is so much more than how do I return in my receipts and how do I learn the softwares in the systems? Like I get it, right? Like at church is an organization. And without those things, you know, it would probably be far less effective. I get it. And you know, it's, it, it, maybe it's just a necessary evil, I don't know. Um, but it's just, it's something that got me thinking, like, you know, sit in a staff meeting today and we're just going over tons and tons of logistics and you know, like I said, I love my job. Nick Clason (18:45): I have a really great job, and they're, they're allowing us to think outside the box and allowing us to break the mold a little bit. And so I'm, I'm really grateful for that. Um, but I just wonder if sometimes church, not just my church, all churches get a sucked into the tyranny of the urgent and b, turn into event makers as opposed to makers of disciples, builders of disciples, crafting, honing the next generation to look and act more like the person of Jesus. Like that's, that was his commission. So if we start with that, if we, if we start with the why, like why do we do this? And is an event the most effective way to do it? Probably, Or at least, at least if it's not, it's, it's a part of a hybrid solution to what the future looks like. And I don't have all the answers. Nick Clason (19:38): And that's you. That's, I think that's why I'm coming across passionate and potentially angry. I'm not angry. I'm really not. I'm just, I, I'm really, I'm right now I'm gonna study provided through my church about 50 days through the life of Christ. It's an amazing study. I've done it before. I'm doing it again, just being reminded about how intentional Jesus was about investing in people living life with his disciples and modeling for them what his ministry model was. And, and then I turn around and I'm, you know, I'm having to like, figure out how to like submit her a seat cuz I've never done it before. Cuz you know, I always had my admin do it. And, uh, she, she recently left and started a new job somewhere else. And so we're looking for one. And you know, I'm like slugging through that a little bit and I'm like, man, I get it. Nick Clason (20:28): Like right. It's necessary. And if anyone, if anyone from where I work hears this, they're gonna like, think I'm just this ungrateful, you know, complaining guy. Like I'm not, I'm really not. I'm just, I'm wrestling with like, what's the most important and how do we, how do we create something to respond to the tyranny of the urgent while not losing ourselves in the making of disciples. And I think that that's, I think every youth pastor, I think every pastor, every person in vocational ministry feels that tension at some point. So if you're in vocational ministry, let me hear it from you. Um, we're in this together and like I said, I love where I work. I don't have all the answers, um, but it's just something that got me thinking today. So I don't know. Listen bro, this is like a stream of consciousness. Like, I don't know if I'm gonna have chapter markers for this at the end of the day. Like this is just me rambling talking for 20 minutes. So if you found a helpful, let me know. Reach out on Twitter at hybrid ministry or, uh, swing by the website, hybridministry.xyz. Uh, and until next time, we'll talk to you later. Peace out my friends.
SUMMARY In this episode, Nick discusses the stark generation gap that is growing. In addition to that he explores and discusses how to use digital methods to enhance in the in-person ministry experience. And finally, he poses the question and idea: Are small groups the best new outreach method? Follow us on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00-01:58 Intro 01:58-07:50 How to Bridge the Generation Gap between Gen Xers, Millennials and Gen Z 07:50-12:53 How to use digital to enhance in-person ministry 12:53-18:57 Are small groups the best new form for outreach? 18:57-19:34 Outro SHOWNOTES https://careynieuwhof.com/episode527/ TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): What is up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. Once again, another solo pod. Matt got him from Spain, um, and he wasn't sure about like his computer situation, but he got it. Uh, um, he's got one, he doesn't have a login yet for it, so that's a little bit problematic. But, uh, you know, once he starts getting settled in and stuff like that, he said he should be good to go. So, uh, one of my all time favorite podcasts is the Carry and New H Leadership podcast has subscribe to it, listen to it. Um, I, I wanna say every week, but it's not like on demand listening per se, it's more just like, Oh, I'll get to it whenever something else isn't there. Um, but I'm a pretty regular and consistent listener. He headed, uh, Dr. Tim Elmore on one of his most recent podcasts, talking about Generation Z. Nick Clason (00:57): So, just got me thinking. Let's talk, let's chat Gen Z today. Let's talk a little bit about that. Let's talk a little bit about some of the distinctives between them and some of the older, different, newer generations. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. Um, hopefully, I don't know, I don't wanna promise anything. Maybe next week, Matt will be back. Um, started, we started talking and circling around the drain about what it would look like to schedule. He, uh, he's in Colorado now. I'm in Texas, and so he's an hour earlier. So, you know, someone's getting up early. It's probably me, I'm not gonna lie. But anyway, uh, that is, that's what is, today we're gonna talk about Generation Gap. What's the difference between Boomers Xers, millennials, and Generation Z? We're gonna talk about how you can use digital to enhance your in-person experiences. And finally, we're gonna talk about how small is the new outreach plan and method that Generation Z is interested in. So let's go. Nick Clason (02:00): All right, what's up, everybody? Uh, let's talk generation Gap. Um, how many of you have ever, uh, wanted to work from home, um, versus work in the office? I think almost all of us are interested in the hybrid work environment type of thing, but most of us work for a corporation, for a man that requires us to be in the office. Um, think about this. Um, I have worked in a couple of churches where there is a paid for gigantic storage server, and that storage server is only available if you are on the church wifi network. That is an office mentality. Compare that to, you know, two terabytes of Google Drive storage for $6 a year that you can get, you know, um, or a Dropbox office account or, uh, 20 terabytes of Google Drive storage or, you know, any of the other numerable cloud-based storage options. Nick Clason (03:05): You know, it's funny because like, I think this, this, this, uh, depiction can be most best portrayed through the comparison between Microsoft and Google. Okay? So, uh, let's just do some comparisons. Microsoft, they started it. They were a part of the office culture. Every office in the world in America has Microsoft Office. Every one of us is forced to use Microsoft Office or Microsoft Outlook or something like that. Okay? And so you have those products, you have those things. They were the industry standard, then comes along Google, what's the difference? Well, everything in Google is browser based. That's so, that was so foreign to Microsoft. Everything was programmatic. Everything was, um, something that you had to install, put on your hard drive, okay? And so then Google begins to compete with Microsoft, right? So they create Google Docs, Google Sheets, Google Slides. Guys, I'm telling you, as a youth pastor, I have teenagers who don't even know how to open Microsoft product. Nick Clason (04:08): But here's the thing, they don't actually need to, like, there are, there are just ever so slightly a few limitations between a Google, like, I think the biggest one I see is the Google Slides and Microsoft PowerPoint, but not much. I've had kids who have like, let teach or whatever, build full on presentations in Google Slides, and then they just send it to me. It's a usable, it is a presentable, it is a, uh, it is a, a product that has now competed with, with Microsoft's office, right? Microsoft's office has since tried to adapt and change. And so they've tried to create documents, word, Excel, and the like that you can edit, um, as you go so that like multiple contributors can view as those edits are taking place. Here's the thing, the reality is that Google is a superior product, and we all know it. Nick Clason (05:01): My favorite story about this is last summer, um, at the church I was at before they had switched everybody over to Microsoft Teams as a collaboration method, which teams was fine from a chat perspective. It's like slack light in my personal opinion. But, uh, what we would put all of our storage for like our camp messages in a Microsoft team's folder that was built through SharePoint, which is Microsoft's thing. Not one drive not to be confused with one drive again, so, so clear. I know. Um, and so you, I I, I would make a Word document in teams with a link to a Google doc, and then I would do alma editing in Google Docs. Why did I do that? A because it was very redundant to build something in Google Docs, which is where I was doing it, which was always evolving, always updating, always auto saving, versus having to copy and paste that over into Microsoft Teams every single time. Nick Clason (05:57): And then remember, Oh, yeah, I gotta go over there and update that in Microsoft Teams if anyone wants to see it. So, um, I said, everything in Google Docs, there's a story of a, a kid, um, in Ohio who worked at a painting company. Um, this is, this is from the, the Timmel Moore interview. And he says that he worked for a painting company and he posted a TikTok of himself mixing some paint. No big deal. But he got like, I think over a million views on it and, and, or I'm not sure, a million followers, something big, something in the millions. And so what he did, you know what he did? He went to his executives and he said, Hey, I think we're missing out on an untapped market. Um, and I think that, you know, he presented this whole pitch and he, he was surprised. Nick Clason (06:42): You know why? Because not only did they not go with his idea, they fired him because they said, You're not working on your, your your bo you're stealing from company time. This is the difference we're talking about between the generation gap, the office culture versus the hybrid work environment. And I think both sides have valid agreements. I think that the office side, like, Hey, gotta get there, gotta get your work done, gotta work hard, gotta be reliable, gotta be dependable. But I think that also there are new innovative ideas. And this painter guy, he lost his job, picked up, move from Ohio down to Florida, started his own painting company. It's like that's what's gonna happen, uh, as opposed to people adapting and conforming to old school ways of, of doing things. Instead, they're just gonna pick up and they're gonna leave. So how do you keep good, meaningful talent? How do you reach Generation Z that just thinks categorically, fundamentally differently? And how do you use their creativity that they have and the, the way that they see the world and the way that they, uh, interact with online and digital and the people around them? How can you use that to your advantage? Nick Clason (07:57): All right, What about using digital means to enhance in-person gatherings? When we all got shut down for Covid, uh, I think everybody had to turn to digital only as the option. And how do we replicate and reproduce what make what's happening in the room or in the building or in in room programming? How do we turn that into a completely fully digital experience? And the fact of the matter is, you can't, you cannot replicate and reproduce face to face engagement. Um, but you also, and the same is true on the flip side. You cannot replicate what happens online in the room. So let's use, um, my, my marriage with my wife, for example. We have a relationship, obviously we have two kids, so obviously, um, we live in a house, we do life together, like all the things. Uh, and she's at home. We'll text her out the day. Nick Clason (08:57): There'll be times where, uh, she'll call me on video and be like, Hey, what do you think about this? Give me your opinions on that. Um, we'll do all those types of things, right? Uh, and there's even been times where for extended weeks, either one of us is apart from the other. I mean, when we're part, like, that's, that's hard. Like that is a challenging moment for our relationship. You know what I mean? So what, uh, cuz eventually we, like, we want to be back together. So the same is true for your churches. Like what happens in a small group setting, one on one living life together in community, um, in Ko Ania Fellowship as the Greek word is family carrying one another's burdens, praying for one another, supporting one another, encouraging one another, admonishing one another. Those things can happen digitally, but they mostly and best happen together when you're knee and knee eyeball to eyeball, able to give a hug to one another. Nick Clason (10:04): So how do you use what is going on online with what is also happening in the room? So how can you use Instagram to be like a recap to post pictures, to post reels, as we've talked about on this podcast multiple times to do live voting. Like one of my favorite things is to have a live vote that's taking place in Instagram stories while programming or while you're, um, in room experience is taking place. You can use some of those things to, to drive up drum up engagement. What about TikTok? What about devotionals that you put on there that are tied to the most recent message or recaps that that flesh out the most recent idea, message, whatever. Um, another one, one of my all time favorites is what about reading the Bible? You version plans. What about doing that together? If you're in a small group, what about, uh, being in a a bible study, a you version plan together. Nick Clason (11:06): So what if you're reading at the same time, uh, throughout the week and then you come together in person to discuss it? See, these are all ways that we create this mesh of, of real life that something is happening digitally, but it's not looking to supplant or replace what's happening online, but it's looking to strategically come in alongside it and enhance and raise the bar on the overall experience. You know, I just got like a, a brand new, uh, the brand new Google Pixel phone, man. It is a, it is the biggest phone I've ever held in my hand. Like my thumb hurts now because I am not used to the reach that is required on me. But like when I open the home screen, it has the weather and then the first thing it has is it says, um, uh, projected commute, time to work, typical delays, moderate traffic. Nick Clason (11:57): Like that's pulling directly off of Google Maps because it knows where I am and where I live, and it knows where I work and what it takes to get there, right? That's an example of a hybrid enmeshment. How can the church offer more of that? I find so often that the defacto answer for the church is come online or not Come online, come, come on Sunday, see you nine o'clock and 10 30 and that's it, right? Like, hey, like, like you got an amazing tagline. Like, we wanna reach all people for all generations to know, follow, seek, and become great disciples of Jesus Christ. That's great. If it's catchy, better, whatever. And then what's the actions of, what's the call to action immediately out of that come to church? How can you use the digital resources that you have around you to enhance that, um, and to create moments where students, people, your congregants can connect with you and God throughout the other days of the week? Nick Clason (13:05): All right? I'm wondering if small is the new outreach method. When I was growing up in youth group, the outreach method was let's rent out a laser tag place. Let's, um, charge everybody five bucks. And for every friend you bring, it's a dollar off. And so if you bring five friends, you and all your friends get to go for a hundred percent completely free. You get unlimited video games, unlimited pizza, unlimited soda as much as you want. That was an amazing outreach event when I was a kid. Or yuck night, we get to throw, uh, food at 500 of our least closest friends and strangers, and we're walking away with mashed potatoes in our ears and we have to go home and we have to shower and take care of it and all this stuff, right? Like, what if those are not the most effective outreach tools anymore? Nick Clason (13:57): A recent study on Gen Z, um, and I, I may have referenced this before, I think I probably did from Crossroads Church in Cincinnati, they were able to conduct a survey of students that were still under the age of 18. So a lot of our Gen Z data is of Gen Zers, who are over the age of 18 because of consent reasons, but crossroads through their data department at their church, were able to survey the kids and granted in their church, So this is, you know, regional Cincinnati, um, but they're 76% of their non-churched generation Z students under the age of 18. So kids that are like viable eligible for their, uh, youth group or whatever, 76% of the not connected to church students said that they preferred smaller gatherings versus large parties. Our default I feel often in church, especially in youth ministry, is how are we gonna reach people? Nick Clason (14:53): Let's throw a big party. I mean that, gosh, it is so ingrained in me, like it is so hard to even break that. Like next week we're having a costume party. And so I'm thinking all the things, I'm pulling out all the stops, I'm doing all the hype. But the reality is like, how do we create more warm and more intimate environments for students? Because we, we sat down, uh, with our upperclassmen and our student ministry and we asked them like, um, we talked about what Wednesday nights looked like, and we said the purpose of that is for a lost person to come. And they're like, Yeah, but, but my friend wouldn't come to this. And it's like, first of all, a gut punch. Boom. Oh, but b like, okay, then what? Then why are we doing this? We're doing this because some version of a teenager's friend from 10, 15, 20 years ago, my friend from when I was in high school, would've come to the programming that I'm producing, but maybe not our current students and, and church leader hear me? Nick Clason (15:52): Because you're like, Well, yeah, well, I'm in, I'm in, you know, I do adult ministry, or I'm the lead pastor, I'm executive pastor, whatever. Like, great. However, Generation Z is not just teenagers. They are 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 years old. And, and hear me when I say this, younger millennials are also in that same age, um, demographic. And in that same way of thinking, they're looking for more warm opportunities. I'll give you an example. Just start a new church. Uh, and their moniker is we're all about connect groups. We're all about connection, connection, connect, connection. Getting a connect group. The best way to take the next step in your faith is getting a connect group. Great. I agree with that. Every single stop of ministry I've been in along the way, I've been in some form of a small group, me and my wife, it's a thing we do. Nick Clason (16:41): We've made it a priority. We've woven it into our schedule. We've dug deep paid for babysitters, you know, done whatever we needed to do to make that happen. Okay? Well connect groups are on Sunday morning, which is also when student ministry programming is happening. And I'm, you know, responsible to be in the room for that. So if I want to connect as a staff member, there really is, there really is no way under the, the current existing framework of the church or my wife can go, but I can't. But if she wants to serve, then we're not gonna be able to go together, right? Like, I am looking for connection. I'm looking for something. I, and so if I'm asking, right, like, hey, are there any groups that that don't meet on campus, um, or that don't meet on Sunday morning? And the answer is yes, but they're unsanctioned. Nick Clason (17:35): Like they're not, they don't fall under the framework of the connect group strategy. They're prob they're not resourced the same way. So like, where do I find that small, like that more intimate type of gathering? And again, if, if you're, um, older and you have grown up in church in a while, like what you're probably hearing is okay, yeah, that's what you want, You're a pastor. But what's fascinating is we're hearing from our high schoolers that that's what they want to bring their friends to. Maybe not the kumbaya session, but like when their connect group does a barbecue, like they'll invite them to that when their connect group goes bowling, they'll invite them to that. When their connect group goes to laser tag, they'll invite them to that, and that's gonna be 10, 15, 20, 25 kids. But when the entire youth ministry goes to laser tag 500 kids, they're like, Nah, it's not me. Nick Clason (18:28): I'm out not interested. And so how do we create smaller, more warm environments? And guess what, guys? Guess what, Guess what? That's easier to reproduce than the large scale of it. You know, I think for years, especially as a youth pastor at smaller churches in smaller environments, what I would do is I would look to the big guys and I'd be like, Well, once I get there, I will have made it. And then all the kids will come flocking. And, and the irony, what I realized is that's honestly been the exact opposite or the bigger it's gotten, the more challenging it's been to try and figure out how to create and make it small, warm environment. Hey, once again guys, thank you for hanging out with me today. We are on Twitter @hybridministry. We are online hybridministry.xyz because of course, hybrid ministry.com was taken not being used, but taken. So check us out on there. You can get show notes. We have full transcripts. We provide and pay for that every single week. So I hope that you're taking advantage of that. And until next time, talk to you later. See ya!
SUMMARY In this episode, Nick recounts his experience with his most recent move and his moving company, and pulls out some wisdom he discovered along the way about how to approach ministry and more particularly, Hybrid Ministry. Learn to Think Digital, Be Kind and Be Clear! Follow us on twitter at http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or online at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00-01:19 Intro and Housekeeping 01:19-05:47 Thinking Digital 05:47-09:07 Kindness goes a long way 09:07-12:17 Be Clear 12:17-15:02 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What up everybody? Welcome to episode number 13, um, of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, as always, Nick Clason. And, um, bad news, Matt is in Spain, and, um, he just started a new job. And so I was talking to him last week on the phone and he has to figure out his computer situation. Doesn't even know if he is gonna have one or not. So listen, there may be some changes on the horizon. He may be back. Maybe I'll figure something out. Um, maybe not, but that's okay. Um, and I'll just be honest. Um, my moving truck came in today, Oh my word. It has been 10 days of sleeping on an air mattress. And I don't know if you've seen that TikTok about corn. It's such a beautiful thing. Uh, but if you go follow me on TikTok at Clason, nick, it's c l a s o n, no Y in there. Nick Clason (01:00): Um, I just posted TikTok about how my bed is the most beautiful thing, not corn. Sorry kid. Oh man. It's so good to sleep on a, on a regular mattress again. Uh, actually I haven't even done that yet. I am recording before I go to bed. Um, all that being said, probably gonna be a pretty short pod. Uh, but I wanted to talk a little bit about this idea. Um, and I just wanna brand it. Say, um, let's try to think digital, um, why we're not gonna think digital because of digital for digital's sake, right? But what I wanna do with thinking digital is, first of all, couple of ideas. Number one, uh, when things are made digital, it's just easier, right? And so, you know, I think there's sometimes this notion in church of the fact of like, if you're gonna follow Jesus, it's gonna be hard. Nick Clason (01:55): So we're not gonna make it easy on you, so suck it up. And if you wanna send up to serve, we're not gonna give it to you in two clicks. You gotta go talk to Carl, who's the head usher and get on Carl's Excel spreadsheet, right? Or whatever the case may be. But digital is just so much easier. Um, I'll give you an example. Talking about my moving company. Um, they took my stuff 10 days ago or so in Chicago and, um, no one was super clear with me about what the process was gonna be. So, uh, the next day I just called the company. I was like, Hey, so how do we like schedule this? They're like, Oh, we'll call you. And that was it. And I just, uh, there was some stuff and moving companies are never like the most upright, forthright. So there was just some stuff that like concerned me a little bit. Nick Clason (02:51): And so, uh, I wasn't, I was not okay with that being the only answer. And so I wanted to continue. I stayed on 'em, I stayed hot on their tail. Uh, but it was a pain in the, But let me tell you what, like, uh, they did not have an infrastructure for somebody who was interested in knowing the whereabouts of the contents of their house. Uh, their, their infrastructure was when we're ready to bring you your things, we will tell you. But until then we got nothing for you. Um, compare that to Amazon, Who has an updated ETA delivery? Lets, you know when the item is 10 stops away from your house and you can track it on the, on the map. Like, uh, what I was thinking I should have done, you know, after, of course everything's loaded and I'm here in Texas just waiting for my stuff to arrive. Nick Clason (03:48): So I was like, Man, I should have put some sort of find my iPhone or GPS tracking device or something on the truck just so I can know where the contents of my house were sitting. You know, like that, that has just been interesting to me. And you know, I don't think that this moving company has any desire to, uh, to change their ways, you know? But I was reaching out, I was thinking about reaching out to 'em and just saying, Hey, you know, if you had some sort of tracking system or whatever, like that would've made a my life a lot easier, but b, yours as well. Cause I wouldn't have called you 36 times trying to figure out where everything was. So think digital. How can you make it easier? How can you give, uh, an how can, how can you give a, uh, user experience one that's just a little bit easier? Nick Clason (04:39): So think about someone at your church wants to sign up to serve. Can they find that information on your website? If they want to attend your church, can they find that information on your website? If they want to join a small group, do they have to ask somebody what in the world the name of this small group means? Because it's some acronym that you created 36 years ago that no one even really remembers anymore, but everyone just calls it the Frog Group. And you're like, Oh yeah, what's that mean? Like, fuck yo. Yeah. Fully rely on God. Yeah, Carl named it that 10 years ago, right? I don't know what my vendetta is against Kyle, Kyle, Carl, but what, like, do you have something, um, that's clear and that makes it easier for the person? Because the fact is, like, as things get more difficult, uh, people just tend to give up. So keep that in mind. And you're like, Well, that's not committed. Yeah, it's also just human psychology. And so it's not that people aren't committed, but, but make it, make it like, make it accessible for people. Make them be able to attach to it. Nick Clason (05:48): All right? Another idea, um, I had on thinking digital is, is this, um, again, tales from a moving company. Um, the customer service of this moving company was awful, right? So the movers, um, in Chicago were fine. The movers in Dallas, uh, they were super kind and so, so much better than the movers that I had in Chicago. Um, the guy who sold me, uh, the truck and everything, great guy. Um, but also like, not total, not sure if he was totally truthful. And then, but the person in between, they put me in, in touch with, uh, George. So George sold me on the moving company and everything like that. They put me in touch with George's manager. Her name is Pauline. And, um, I don't know if I've ever met somebody who is, uh, seems so annoyed with human contact in my entire life. Nick Clason (06:48): And I'm not trying to be mean, and I'm not trying to be like a, an an awful Christian, right? But like, she had no desire to talk to me. Like her company held the contents of my entire life. And I was just calling to say, Hey Pauline, how's things going? Any idea on the eta my truck? Again, mind you, they have no way to let me know that. Like, they just give me a window and say that's when it's gonna be. So I'm just supposed to be okay with that, right? Meanwhile, everyone I'm talking to is like, that's taking forever. That's crazy. Why is this so long? And then I'm talking to them and they're like, No, it's not, it's not that long. Like, you just feel like it's long. It's really not that big a deal. Like what? What? Right? You know? So it's like I call her and I just felt like I was annoying her. Nick Clason (07:36): She's like, Hello. Um, and so be kind to people like figure out the best way in which you can, um, make people's lives easier. Like how, how is your interaction with that person going to make their life easier? And then let's think about how you can do that digitally. Because the fact of the matter is, if you're a church, you're probably only only interacting with someone on a Sunday morning or maybe a Wednesday night or some midweek type of deal. How can you also bring that level of customer service? How can you bring that level of joy and satisfaction to your digital channels, to your social media so that the people that are following you, so the people that are engaging with you, are seeing the joy that Jesus has brought into your life. And you're exuding that not only in your in-person interactions, but also in your digital interactions. Nick Clason (08:26): See, that stuff matters. And I'll just tell you, as somebody who's been on the other side of a not so joyful person and company, um, it has made my experience with this company terrible. I I will never use them again. And quite honestly, this is like the third move I've made that's been significant, where I've had to load up a truck and all that stuff, and honestly, they probably did the best job of any moving company I've ever done, uh, as far as like the actual loading and the actual wrapping of a furniture and all those types of things. But the reality is I'll never go with them again. Why customer service? They made me feel terrible and they made me feel stupid the entire way through. Last thing, be clear. Be clear with what's going on. Again, um, tales from a moving company. So, uh, this guy George, he, he books me, uh, for, um, a, you know, a price. Nick Clason (09:22): And he says, I'm overestimating based on what you're telling me. So you're probably gonna pay less. Guy walks in Chicago, and he's like, uh, it's actually gonna be $3,000 more than, um, what George told you on the phone. Like, hold on a minute, right? Like, that's a lot of money. And uh, of course in reading the reviews, it sounded like this was standard practice for this company. Um, but, but then, right? Like I said, then they drove away. And it wasn't until later that night or the next day, we were dawned on me, I was like, Wait a minute. I don't know how to schedule pick up. I don't know when to expect my truck. Like, I, I have no idea, right? Like, I just, there's no clarity on the process, right? And so think about if someone wants to volunteer in your ministry, are you clear on what the steps are, right? Nick Clason (10:17): Like I'm a youth pastor, and so to volunteer in youth ministry, in most cases, and in most churches, it's gonna be, uh, quite, quite cumbersome to be honest with you, because we're gonna be running back around checks and we're gonna be probably checking references, and we're probably gonna be having you do some sort of, uh, training, um, that, you know, some video training on, you know, sexual abuse or, uh, mandated reporting or the child protective services laws in your state, or whatever the case may, right? Like it takes a lot to get you into a position of influence and into the same room with a bunch of teenagers, rightfully so, as it should, right? But be clear, if someone's like, I wanna volunteer youth ministry, great, you're on the team, and then they get home and they have 37 emails from you, from your admin, from the screening company, from whatever, and you're calling references, and they didn't give chance to give those references a head up heads up. Nick Clason (11:17): Like, just be clear. And, and even if it's right, like if this company, this moving company would've told me like, Hey, it's gonna be seven to 17 days for transit from Chicago to Texas. While that's a long time, and I'm not a fan of that, Like I would've known it and I wouldn't have been freaking out quite as much wondering where in the world my things are because there was no one laid it out for me. There was no clarity. I had to go seek it out. And by the time I got to the end of the line, I got to a customer service representative who didn't really want to talk to any customers. And so if they would've laid that out, I wouldn't have had to a slug through so many phone calls, you know, call the company, press one for this, two for that, and getting myself worked up or myself frustrated all the way along the way. Nick Clason (12:06): So, so just be clear, right? So number one, think digital. Number two, be nice, be kind to people. And number three, be clear and lay things out. Again, like I said, um, you got the brunt of my frustration of unloading, unpacking, moving truck, but we're here, we're settled. And, uh, listen, like, say whatever you want, think whatever you want, but I've been able to keep these suckers rolling out every Thursday morning consistently. And so that's been a feat in and of itself. Like I said, now that things are hopefully settling down a little bit, uh, we'll be able to maybe line up schedule with Matt. If not, that's fine. I'm gonna keep, uh, solo pod in it and just, uh, do my best Colin Cowherd impression. Uh, but excited to be continuing on this journey with you. Uh, in the couple weeks, I wanna let you know how our digital initiative stuff are going. Nick Clason (13:00): We had a website conversation with our communications people last week, um, here in Texas at our church to create a more hub style, uh, website. Um, and then this week, um, so I'm like five of six, six tos in. Um, I've gone head first into a three day TikTok posting strategy. So it's a lot of forethought and planning, but, uh, this is now the second time I've done it, and so I found it to be quite a bit easier. And so, um, while it may seem daunting at first, once you kind of get your bearings a little bit, um, you'll, you'll be a little, you know, you'll be a little bit better. And then last, uh, listen, I mean, there's nothing to be proud of. And, um, I'm shooting right now on a same Sun Galaxy S nine phone, terrible quality. I just, uh, pre-ordered the brand new, uh, Google Pixel Pro seven, so it's like the best camera right there on the market, either between that or the newest iPhone. Nick Clason (13:57): So, um, it's weird, I'm an Apple guy for everything, but for phones, I'm, I'm the same or I'm a Android person. So when you do Google Pixel, um, and uh, check out the new phone quality on that. Uh, but if you wanna go check out what we're posting on TikTok, we're at first Colville students, um, on TikTok and Instagram, posting the exact same content both on reels there on Instagram and on TikTok. So, like I said, we're just getting started with that this week. Um, and it's gonna be a lot of me on there. I'm gonna try and diversify it with my team here in the coming weeks, but just wanted to get things up and rolling, uh, there on TikTok. So, hey, thanks for hanging out. Appreciate it. Uh, love to hear from you guys. We're hybridministry.xyz online. We're also @hybridministry on Twitter. And, uh, we'll talk to you next time. See you guys.
SUMMARY In this solo pod Nick explores three big ideas. Why Email and Social may not satisfy the on-demand world and culture that we currently live in. Is Social Media for your church even worth it Especially if you just are using it as an extension of your announcements? And are Big Events only for the Pastor's Ego? Or do they still have a place in our churches? All that and more on this week's episode of the Hybrid Ministry Podcast! Follow along at http://hybridministry.xyz Or come hang out on Twitter at http://twitter.com/hybridministry TIMECODES 00:00-04:34 - Intro 04:34-13:07 - Why Email and Social may not satisfy the on demand world we live in. 13:07-18:39 - Is Social Media worth it in your church? 18:39-27:09 - Big Events are for the Ego of the Pastor, not the People 27:09-27:50 - Outro SHOWNOTES http://Nucleus.Church TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): What up everybody? And welcome to another episode of the Hybrid Ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, this morning solo pod from my new house in Dallas, Texas, and my guest bedroom closet because, uh, none of my stuff is in the house yet. And so every single place I go is gonna be echoy and the least echoy place is the guest bedroom closet. As best as I can tell, you'll have to let me know, cuz honestly, you're on the hearing side of this. I'm on the talking side of this. And so, uh, this is my best attempt. Um, I've mentioned it in previous episodes, Uh, gonna be a solo pod today. Uh, both me and Matt are actually in the middle of moves. Uh, we, my wife and I, uh, we got a little bit of a jumpstart on him and his wife, and so they, I believe his truck is maybe coming today. Nick Clason (01:07): Um, and so anyway, so today on this episode, I wanted to just chat about a couple of hot takes. Um, three in particular. I wanted to do three hot takes. And number one, I wanted to talk about how we now live in a more on demand world and how social media, um, or email marketing may not be the best way to approach some of that on demand world. Wanted just chat through and brainstorm some stuff with you guys. The second hot take was, um, social media might not actually be worth it, um, in your churches, uh, if you do some of these things I'm gonna talk about. And then number three, I think that big large scale events are actually more for the pastor's ego than for the actual people who are going to be consuming them. So we'll dive into those a little bit, um, here in just a second. Nick Clason (02:04): But like I said, uh, just a quick like, update. So when, when we got this sucker up, up and rolling off the ground, I, uh, recorded, uh, pre-recorded five podcasts. And so I had five in the queue before we ever even launched episode one. With all the hustle and bustle moving and just the absolute impossibility has seemed for Matt and I to be able to coordinate our schedules. Um, I am now recording this episode one day before it will release tomorrow, Thursday morning, October 6th. And so, um, I to keep things rolling, to remain consistent, my goal is to give you something every single Thursday morning. Um, it's, it, you know, I'm just letting you know like that. That's sort of why, like, I could wait and Matt and I could get on the same page, but we're gonna miss a couple posts. Um, and so I'm gonna keep bringing you guys some stuff. Nick Clason (03:02): Um, and when life settles down for the both of us, we will make this happen. But like I said, I'm on the tail end of a move. Um, my family and I rolled into town last Friday, closed on a house here in, uh, Fort Worth, Texas, uh, to start a new job at church in the DFW metroplex area. Love it. Super excited working with, um, former boss of mine who, uh, so it's, you know, it's a great ex experience, um, and also feels incredibly familiar even though I'm in a new church. I'm in a similar youth ministry environment, so that's really exciting. Um, and then Matt's actually gonna be stepping into a different role as well, and I'll let him talk a little bit more about that. But his first, uh, day on the job is actually gonna be in Spain. And so, uh, who knows, you know, how soon we'll be able to be together on the podcast again. Nick Clason (03:56): But our goal is to continue to bring something to y'all, um, and continue to bring both of our voices. I I'm not a gigantic fan of these solo pods. It feels like just a lot of rambling into an empty microphone with very little feedback, pushback, conversation. Um, but I'm gonna do my best in learning and I'm trying to make it something that is gonna be worth everybody's while. So without any anymore explanation for all that, um, I'm just trying to give you a little quick update, some housekeeping stuff. Uh, I wanted to dive into a couple of ideas. So let's go, let's make this happen. All right. Idea number one, we live in an on demand world. So is social media and is email marketing the most effective way to communicate? Think about this. Uh, we live in a Netflix as opposed to a cable TV centric world. Nick Clason (04:54): 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago, the only way to consume your favorite TV show, if you wanted to watch Seinfeld, you had to tune in on Thursday evenings at 8:00 PM I'm not actually sure if that's true or not. Actually, what I do know is true is the Office, right? Every Thursday night, sometime between eight or 9:00 PM I remember, cause I was in college and we didn't, we weren't, um, allowed, We were at a Christian university. We were not allowed to have, uh, televisions in our room. And streaming, um, was available, but it wasn't available until the next day. And so the only way to watch the office at my Christian university was to go find a lounge with a tv. The lounges were allowed to have TVs and cable, uh, or satellite, but none of the rooms were. And so Thursday night was on demand viewing opportunities. Nick Clason (05:48): People would come in and flood the lounges. It, there was literally not a seat in the house. If you wanted to sit and watch the office, you had to get there a couple of hours early in the anticipation of it. And you probably had to sit through the NBC Nightly news and you probably had to sit through a couple other sitcoms like community or something like that before the office ever even came on. Now, I compare that to the idea of the way that Disney Plus is releasing things. Like if I wanna watch the newest episode of She Hulk, I can get up at three o'clock in the morning the day that it releases and watch it from the comfort of my own house. But in the fact that I've been moving and traveling and I took my family to Disney World last week, two weeks ago, like, I'm not caught up on She Hulk, but I will, I'll get caught up on it or Stranger Things, right? Nick Clason (06:38): When Stranger Things comes out, it is a all day viewing experience. It is an on-demand, it is a binge worthy experience. Uh, so much so that Netflix has recently adjusted the way that they released it. And so they released it now in two different parts. Now, I just wanna think about how that behavior there, the Netflix versus the cable experience, how that behavior has changed the way that we as humans, um, expect to consume content, right? Like, think about it. I, in a Netflix world, I want information when I want it. How many of you in ministry have sent some sort of email newsletter and then you still get the question from a teenager or a parent, Hey, when is the deadline again? And you're like, I communicated this. Like, this has been so clear, This has been so obvious. The reason why I think is when you send it to them, you're sending it to them in a, a cable centric mentality. Nick Clason (07:47): Like, I will send you this email every Tuesday at 9:00 AM That's if you are even that discipline, a lot of us, we're not, we're not sending emails with that amount of consistency and regularity, and I don't know that I'm ready to abandon the whole email idea, But what I do know is that we don't live in a cable TV centric world where Thursday night at 8:30 PM is on demand, uh, must watch tv. Very few people live that way. And that's gonna be the same way with your emails. And that's gonna be the same way with your stage announcements. And that's gonna be the same way with your social media announcement posts. And so how do we switch to a more on demand way to consume content or way to find community? Again, I think another beautiful example of this is joining a small group outta church. Nick Clason (08:44): I think a lot of churches have the small group process basically be, Hey, if you wanna join a small group, go talk to Carl. And then Carl plays matchmaker. And I like, if I want to sign up for a small group, I wanna just go browse the available options and I wanna sign up for a small group. You may call that consumer of me, but I, I actually appreciate it in and like to anticipate the control or the ability that I have to make that happen on my own. I, I will, if I'm finding a new veterinarian or if I'm finding a new doctor, if I'm finding a new dentist, if I'm finding a new counselor, like I prefer to find those things by going to those people's websites and creating my own appointment. Like one of the things that I absolutely hated, this may be the millennial me, I don't know, but when I was looking for quotes to move, um, I would find these websites and they're like, click through here to get an instant quote. Nick Clason (09:49): And I was like, Oh, awesome. And so I put in on my info, you know, four bedroom house, this estimated amount of stuff, whatever. And then they would say, Awesome, your quote is ready. Call one 800, whatever, whatever, whatever, to get your quote. That's not on demand. No, it's not. No. Now I have to talk to a customer service representative. And the problem is that the, when the default is you, hey, you gotta talk to customer service representative. Yes, I'm not trying to hit away from the, uh, talking to other people the importance of that, right? We know that human connection and human conversation is important, but what I am trying to say is we can, we live in a world and we have tools, digital tools and things that can make it possible for people to find those resources and come to that on their own. Nick Clason (10:41): So how can we do that in churches? What are ways that we can make that happen? A couple of ideas I have, I talked about this a couple podcasts to go where I said, Hey, here's what I'm pitching for my new church. Um, create a central hub strategy. And I don't wanna take any sort of credit for this. Like Brady Sheer and the guys over at Pro Church Tools, they have been preaching this for years. And they have, they have a website tab, boot nucleus, uh, called nucleus.church, check out their product and you can build your own central hub style website where, and it's a, it's super easy to edit. It's one of my all-time favorite website editors. Uh, but b it looks so good, it's so sleek, it's mobile friendly. Like that is, that is where you can, um, send emails still and send social media things, but you can direct and drive everything back to the website where it's consistent every single time. Nick Clason (11:33): And you're saying, Hey, for more information, head to fill in the blank. And that creates, um, that puts the, that puts the onus back on the user. And you're saying, Hey, if you want this information, if you want it on demand, if you wanna watch it like you consume Netflix, here's where to go. And that, what that does then is that makes it the impetus beyond you or on us as the church leaders to make sure that those websites are updated. I think more often than not, the um, the, the website is one of the last things that we think to edit. And I think in this new world that we're moving into, and in this on demand world, websites almost need to be the first thing that we edit. It's interesting, like I said, I'm starting a new job, but with an old boss and just before him and I both left, um, we were both working at, at my last church, I was like, we need to, we need to tighten up the website. Nick Clason (12:30): And he said, Ah, I, he's like, I always think of the website as a last, last ditch effort. He's like, But you're right. We need to switch. We need to make that first. And so here we are now in our new gig and he asked me yesterday, What's your, what's your digital strategy? Do you have one? And I said, Yeah, but it's gonna be contingent independent on the website. And you know, if you're a pastor or you work in church ministry, you know how this is, right? And I said, So that, that requires us to have a conversation with communications and get them on the same page cuz we're, we're, uh, dependent upon them to kind of get some of this stuff that we want flushed out, finished out. All right, take number two. Social media is not worth it unless you're willing to try some new things. Nick Clason (13:22): I think a lot of churches are just doing social media as an announcement extension. And man, I would just say if that's all you're doing with social media, just keeping the ship afloat, just doing things because it's what you feel like you should do need to do. Everyone else is on social media. They're telling you to do social media, but you're really, you don't have anyone invested in it. You don't have anybody tracking it. You don't have anybody watching the metrics to see what's growing, what needs to be having port gas pour onto it, what needs to be cooled and slowed and changed. Who's watching trends? Who's listening to the Pro Church Tools podcast? Who's listening to the Hybrid Ministry podcast to stay up to date on what's going on on social media and to you, like, as a church, you have to be willing to try things that are gonna be different because social media, digital ministry is a new way to reach people. Nick Clason (14:19): And I think it's effective. And so I I would actually push back and say, I do think it's worth it, but I, but the reason I don't think it will be worth it is if you're, if you're just gonna stick it on autopilot. I think there are very few ways to, uh, post and, and do social media type things without, um, being willing to be a mold breaker, without being willing to take some risks, without being willing to rethink some of the old ways of doing things. A lot of the traditional methods on social media are not effective anymore, right? Like when, when right now, um, the entire focus on all of social media is discoverability, right? TikTok brought into this, brought into us this advent of finding content from people that you don't know. And so when people at your church, um, want to follow you or your account, uh, but you're posting reels or tos, things that are needing to be discovered by hopefully them, but also other people, like what are you gonna do? Nick Clason (15:33): Like, how, how then what's the call to action out of a real, out of a TikTok, right? Like, and so we gotta figure out as church, um, digital hybrid marketing people what our win is and what the purpose of doing it is, because it is, is just a really bad announcement extension. Like it can be that, but it's gonna be pretty lame and it's gonna be pretty ineffective. And people are really not on social media now. Um, or I, I should, I should watch what I say. I was gonna say, people are not on social media to follow people that they're friends with, and I don't think that's true. Um, but I think that the most popular form of social content right now is to consume videos, short form videos in particular of people that you're not friends with. Like when I'm on TikTok, I spend 95% of my time on the four UAB and I'm only over on the friends tab to clear that pesky red notification. Nick Clason (16:43): And then if I'm over there, I might see a video or two of some friends I follow and then I'll, or I'll see a few videos in a row of friends I follow and I'm like, Huh, this is crazy. Or friends I know like my sister and my friend Isaac. Um, and then I'm like, Oh, that's cuz I'm on the friends tab. Of course back over for you, right? Like, I don't know about you, but that's how I am behaving with it. And so I just, what I'm saying with this is, I'm not saying social media's not worth it, but I am saying you gotta be willing to take risks. And I think if you're unwilling to take risks or you don't have somebody who's willing to take risks and, and look at your individual church data, I don't know that it's gonna be worth it. Nick Clason (17:28): I don't know that it's gonna yield for you the results that you're looking for. Sure you can post some stuff, you can have some announcement adjacent stuff and you can just do some, you know, Facebook page type things. But, but is it really gonna be worth it? And are we really like gonna see the results that we're looking for? So get out there, break some stuff, stuff, try some stuff, be creative, be willing to take risks and don't put the breaks on your creatives or don't put the breaks on the people who are interested in this because listen, like this avenue in particular is going to be, um, the way and wave of the future and the way that you've been doing church and particularly the way that you've probably been doing social media is not gonna be what's a part of the next wave. Nick Clason (18:18): So let somebody who is comfortable with taking risks and comfortable with trying things, let them go fly, try and do some things, um, and don't get stuck in a rut and don't get stuck on autopilot because when you do, that's when things become far less, uh, interesting and far less effective. I take number three today in our final one. Big events are for the pastor, not the people. All right, now hear me out on this one, right? I think that a big event, filling a giant room is really a win for the person on the stage because it helps the pastor. And I'm a pastor and I would agree with this, it helps me feel successful. I look out across the landscape of the room and I say, Man, there's so many people here. Look how effective this event is. Look how many people are here. Nick Clason (19:16): I think the reality is though is that man, we really like, we are seeing a shift away from that like big event idea and that big event desire. Like we actually just, uh, talked to some of our juniors and seniors last week at the church I'm in. And um, you know, the church I'm in like, is, man, it is, is much different than the, the church as in before church as in before, is very, very much in a post-Christian world. Now we're in the Bible belt. Um, but what's fascinating is these students who are Gen Z are basically saying the same things. And they said like, we don't, we don't need this like, big event. It feels very, um, like almost forced, like what we want really for like our friends. Like we wanna just like invite them to like our small group and like if they're like exploring faith, like we wanna actually explore faith and give them something actually challenging, um, and have a hard conversation, not just a like Christian platitude. Nick Clason (20:24): And I was, I was actually, I was watching a show last night, uh, a house flipping show, um, and this couple is having a smaller wedding, um, and they're doing it in like a newly renovated and remodeled house. And so, you know, of course like the, the whole premise of the show is will these people renovate in this house, get it done in time for the wedding? And um, they were talking about like how this house, it's an old, is gonna be a renovated Victorian style house. So for those of you who are not super up on your HGTV of Victorian is, um, smaller rooms, um, and like just really ornate and elaborate kind of like decor. Um, but like not the whole open concept kind of idea. And so as these people were touring through the house, like, Oh, this would be good for our friends to have these smaller rooms, these smaller, more intimate gatherings so that people can actually stop and pause and have conversations with one another. Nick Clason (21:37): And that, that honestly was kind of the impetus for this hot take this morning cuz I was like, Wow, like those, I mean, they're, they're younger, right? Like they're probably in their twenties getting married, maybe thirties. Um, and they, you know, they got a little bit more of like an eclectic kind of vibe to 'em. But the reality is, is as like, I do think that that is far more what people are looking for. They're looking for intimacy, they're looking for connection over content. And so the big room gatherings were a content dump. It would get everybody in. And so that the pastor could deliver his content in the most efficient way possible, the most efficient way possible was to have a large auditorium and crams many people into that large auditorium as you can so that they all could hear what the pastor has to say. Nick Clason (22:34): Guys like that is, that is no longer the most efficient way possible. Is it effective still? Perhaps? Uh, but there's a greater efficiency out there, right? A pastor can talk into a microphone in his closet much like I'm doing right now and deliver that same level of content. So then if that has more efficiency, then what is the purpose of the Sunday morning gathering? And I know like, I'm a pastor, I get it theologically, Hebrews 10, 24 and 25, let us not give up meeting together as somewhere in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another and all the more as you see the day approaching and you're like, that's the, that's the reason for the church gathering. And I would agree. I honestly though, like I'm not, no offense, like I've been at this church now for a month. Um, so I've been to, uh, I think a total of three, maybe four weekends, Sunday morning services. Nick Clason (23:34): Like I don't, I have to work, right? So like, uh, soon as the first service is over, I'm actually, I've, I've actually never been in the service long enough to be dismissed from it. I've slipped out every single week, uh, because I need to get over to student ministry section of the building to be ready for our thing, right? I don't talk to anybody really in the service. Like that encouragement, that admonishment that spurring me on like the, the Sunday morning gathering is, is not when that is taking place. Listen, I'm also, I'll be honest with you too, I'm a traditionalist. I enjoy that. But what is, who is it for? I think in a lot of ways it might actually be for the ego of the pastor. Um, I think I've mentioned this on here before, but at our last church, um, we saw a higher, um, percentage of engagement with students when we offered a smaller gathering. Nick Clason (24:36): Um, and we saw a better value in conversation with students in their smaller groups as opposed to in a large, a large scale gathering. I think, you know, we still saw success in the larger scale gatherings because kids like to come together. They still like to have fun together, they still like to play games together. Um, and so that obviously that's important. That fun is a value too, right? Um, but I, I remember telling a friend of mine who said, if I want to come back together, um, and bring everyone back together in the room, like I want to do that if I'm honest, like that's a value of mine. Like I enjoy that. However, if this talking about the small group system and setting is more effective, more efficient, um, and more what students want than I need to put my ego and my pride on the alter and be willing to offer to students what's better for them, even if it's a not, not what I want. Nick Clason (25:42): Alright? So let's put purpose over preference and then b um, I have to be willing to level up and train my, my leaders and my volunteer team to execute this plan or this play. Um, and it's gonna take more work on my part to develop them as leaders, uh, than just bring them all back together and we preach a message at them from, from the stage, right? Again, if that's what I want and that's what's easier, but it's not. What's better then? Let's actually give our students what's best. Why not? Because we're trying to be effective grow numbers. Look at metrics because we want students to have a meaningful encounter with the God of the universe to come to a knowing, saving knowledge and relationship with Jesus Christ, who is the way back to the Father is he says in John chapter 14, He's the way, he's the truth, he's the wife. Nick Clason (26:44): And if big events are hindrance to that or a Gen Z eye roll, like, uh, another one of these again, then let's not give it to him. Let's give them what they're going to use for the betterment of their faith in the betterment of the, their friends' faith as their friends try to explore what it looks like and means to follow Christ. Well, hey everyone, uh, hope you enjoyed today's episode. Tried a little bit of a different format here. It's, it's tough. Hang on to alo pod, like I said. So I wanted to give a couple of kind of hot takes and just, uh, express what to my heart where I'm coming from. So if you enjoyed it, let us know. Um, rate review. You can go to hybridministry.xyz. We are also on Twitter. I'm gonna try to start, um, being a little more active on there beyond just posting when episodes drop. So come over, give us a follow, come hang out with us. It's at hybrid ministry on Twitter. And, uh, love hanging out with you guys. Uh, let us know, uh, reach out, let us know if there's anything you'd like to hear specifically. And, um, until the next time, talk soon. Bye.
SUMMARY In this solo pod Nick sits down and discusses target audiences, building a digital ministry strategy from scratch at a church that doesn't have much to start with. And who knows how it's going to go, but you'll be along for the ride! For more head to http://hybridministry.xyz or follow us on twitter at http://twitter.com/hybridministry SHOWNOTES https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhrIqTy2ZE&t=914s https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-newsletters-overwhelmed-church-staff-social-media-predictions-gone-wrong https://prochurchtools.libsyn.com/email-open-rates-subject-lines-removing-inactive-subscribers https://prochurchtools.com/7-proven-church-newsletter-ideas-that-really-work/ TIMECODES 00:00-01:13 Intro 01:13-03:03 My Digital Ministry Proposal for my Youth Ministry 03:03-04:01 Back Story 04:01-06:22 Why I love plain text emails 06:22-07:49 Building the Website from Scratch 07:49-12:17 Mapping out the Student Website 12:17-13:05 What to include on a parent website 13:05-13:54 What leaders need on a website 13:54-15:11 Why most church websites don't know who their intended audience is 15:11-15:42 How often to send emails 15:42-16:46 Youth or Student Ministry for SEO? 16:46-17:52 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Ooh, what's going on everybody. Uh, welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason, excited to be joining you today this morning. Um, bright and beautiful morning. Uh, I am all, I'm doing another solo pod and I'm so sad cuz I love, love talking to Matt. Um, and we will probably share nothing bad, man. Like nothing bad. Uh, we'll probably share in a future episode, what is going on? Um, life is a little influx for both of us to be completely honest. Uh, as I said in the last episode I had just recently taken a job at a church in Texas. I'm currently sitting in the basement of my house in Illinois. Um, I am leaving for Disney in a day to go on vacation with my family. Uh, so life is absolutely chaos in mayhem. And so anyway, um, I wanted to just hop on here and uh, you know, just talk through a couple of things and uh, share some insights today. Nick Clason (01:11): Specifically I wanted to talk about the most recent digital ministry hybrid ministry proposal that I put together for the church that I'm working at. Um, and so, uh, gosh, maybe it was like five or so episodes ago I explained, you know, what we were doing at the church I was working at where I'm going, does not have as clearly of a defined digital strategy. It's also in the south. Um, it's the buckle of the Bible belt, Dallas. It feels like. Right. And so, um, there's a lot more of an in person kind of moment. And so how do we take what's already going on in person and create hybrid options? Why would we even wanna do that? What's the purpose of digital ministry, especially if an in person thing is going so well. And so I wanna jump in and explain kind of all of that today. Nick Clason (02:01): That's kind of the point, but like I said, we're a little bit in transition. My goal is to still never miss a Thursday drop. Uh, we have these set to go live every Thursday at four o'clock in the morning. And so as soon as you wake up on Thursday after a night of youth ministry, if your youth pastor or on your commute on the way on, in, on a Thursday, you should see one of these. You should get one of these in your podcast, catcher. Hey, listen. Also, we would just love it. If you would share the word. If you'd get this out there with a friend post on social media, tag us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, our website for we have full show notes, transcripts, we provide those all for you. A hundred percent for free at hybridministry.xyz also on our blog on there, we have a free downloadable checklist. Nick Clason (02:48): So go check that out. Um, anytime you post social media dos and don'ts, um, that's relevant as of now, you know, as long as algorithms and social networks don't change anything. But anyway, all that to be said, let's dive in. I wanted to, uh, chat a little bit. So just quick backstory, um, where I'm headed, uh, where I just most recent took good job is, um, the same place that, uh, my boss, a former boss, um, at my old job, uh, is now working as well. So he went to this church and, um, through a series of amazing supernatural, um, and other confirmation events I felt as the Lord was telling me to also go there, um, after having been offered an opportunity. And so that's kind of that, like I said, I, I think at some point me and Matt will share kind of our journeys and what's going on and, and all those types of things, but I'm gonna say that for another episode, but all that to be said, um, I'm walking into a brand new environment, but I'm walking into the exact same boss. Nick Clason (03:52): And so things are a little bit interesting. And so on like day two, I put together a proposal and I probably wouldn't have put together such a strong proposal. Um, however I put it together because I wanted to, uh, or I mean a cuz he trusted me and, and B cuz I had a lot of desires and opinions. And so the first thing which just started off of was he was saying, Hey man, do some research on email marketing. I was like, okay, fine. Right. Like, you know, I don't know if you know this or not. I host podcast, no big deal. Right. all about digital ministry hybrid ministry. Obviously I was joking. Um, the children's pastor at the church has an email newsletter and uh, I don't know. Um, one of the, one of the guys I'm super, um, I, I, that influences me a lot in this space is Brady sheer, um, of pro church tools, pro church tools podcast, and um, him along with a lot of research from HubSpot and stuff like that, they really, really push against marketing type emails and they push strongly towards plain text type emails. Nick Clason (05:01): Say they say that open rates are higher. Um, email algorithms, yes. Emails have algorithms. Uh, they, uh, email algorithms, you know, play more nicely with emails that look plain, text that look like it's just like a friend to a friend type of conversation as opposed to something that you would get from some gigantic corporation with a bunch of graphics and things like that. And so, um, you know, my, my boss, former boss also now current boss and friend, um, so I was, again able to be a little more direct. I feel like than if I was just starting completely brand new was like, Hey, I want this, I want our emails to look like the kids' ministry emails. He forwarded it to me and I said, Hey, that looks great. And it did. I mean, it looks amazing. Um, I said, however, you know, I sent 'em look like probably five or six links. Nick Clason (05:53): Um, and I can link those in the show notes. Uh, but I, I said five or six links about like, Hey, here's why we don't want to do this. Right. And, uh, he wasn't totally convinced. And so I said, Hey, here's the thing. Um, let's take a look at, um, maybe creating this in a website style. And so that's kinda, what I wanna talk about today is this, this proposal I put together for a hub based website. And so the communications guy at the church I'm working at now was not in the office last week. So, um, I sent this to my boss. He's going to sit down with the communications guy and pitch it when I'm gone at Disney next week. Uh, all that being said, I have no idea where this is gonna head, but this is kind of like us starting, um, hybrid digital ministry from the ground up. Nick Clason (06:46): Currently we have a website and we have an Instagram and that is it. There's really nothing else. I mean, we have an email list as well. It's pulled out of our church management software. And so what I wanted to do is I wanna do a hub style website where anyone at any time could go and check out. And so, uh, the thing in student ministry, um, like I said, I'm a youth pastor. So if you're not a youth pastor, um, this still applies. But, but the thing in student ministry, I think there's, what is your intended audience on your website? Is it students? Is it parents? Is it leaders? And the honest truth is that it's probably all three. And so I don't know the best way to do this, but what I think is that you go to a central kinda landing spot, a central sort of website. Nick Clason (07:34): And then you say from there students, parents leaders with like a button for each, or like a page for each or a link for each or whatever. Right. Um, and each of those have a different reason, a different purpose, right? So, um, students, I, I think you wanna link upcoming events. You may wanna have sign up calendars. Um, but also, and this is the thing I'm really, really trying to double down on. And this is the whole reason for me personally, why I'm so passionate about hybrid ministry is I want digital discipleship tools. I don't know where you land on it. As far as your definition of discipleship. I believe that discipleship has a life on life component. If you look at Jesus and the way that he modeled life with his disciples, he literally lived with them. They came and see, they checked it out and then they come and they followed him and then he started giving them more and more assignments. Nick Clason (08:32): And then until eventually ultimately he left all of the next steps of the church in their hands, all of that done life on life. And I think that there should be a life on life component. I think there should be a physical non-digital in person meeting. Right. And that's why this whole thing, right? We're not talking about it being physical versus digital. We're talking about hybrid. How do both of these two things marry? Why? Because, um, while I would love to be a youth pastor that when people look at me, they say, I see Jesus in you. And I model my life in my ministry after Jesus. I also, um, cannot spend the same amount of time with the people I am attempting to disciple the same way that Jesus did. I mean, I guess I could. Right. But that would require me to, um, sell all my possessions, be homeless and wander around from place to place. Nick Clason (09:29): And while that may sound noble and amazing to some of you out there and you're like, yeah, did you should totally do that. I have a wife and kids and I just, you know, our American system doesn't really lend itself that well to it. And I'm not trying to be facetious here, honestly, I'm just saying it, there are constraints, um, that I have placed on my own life. Right. But also constraints within the American working system and whatnot. And so I love the idea of digital resources because it allows there to be other pieces, elements of content that can take place in the gaps, in the margins, in between our, in person meetings. Right. So, uh, right now, like I said, we have an Instagram, so that's posting on the fee. That's also posting on reels, as we've said, a billion times on this podcast, short form, video content as king. Nick Clason (10:21): And so we want to continue to double down on that. I want to continue to double down on that as a part of my proposal. And as a part of us building this thing from the ground up, I also wanna explore the idea of a daily video slash audio podcast. Did I say daily? I didn't mean daily, but a video audio, um, podcast, perhaps some daily devotionals, those could live on YouTube. Um, they could also just go short form on TikTok. And I also love the idea of blog style articles or some written devotional type content. That's either custom or that is curated. And so those are some elements. And in all of that as a youth pastor, I have to think what about the sixth grader? What about the seventh grader? What about the eighth grader? Um, that their parents won't allow them to have a phone. Nick Clason (11:16): And so I want all this stuff to be able to live on a website so that they can go there and there's pulled content from our YouTube channel. They can click, they can go to YouTube. They don't need a phone. They don't need YouTube account to watch it. Same with TikTok. I actually like the TikTok sharing link algorithm pretty well, cuz you don't unlike Instagram. Um, it's much easier to interface with it without an account. Of course it's easier with it. It always is. They try to make it that way. Right. Um, and same with the video or audio podcast probably hosted on YouTube or whatever and whatnot, all of those to be digital type discipleship tools that entire framework's not built out. Right. But I want to create a central student hub where people can go to students specifically can go to and be both a informed about what's going on times, whatever, what, not calendar events, but also, um, grab some things that can help them grow in their faith and help them grow closer to Jesus. Nick Clason (12:18): Then we want a parent hub and um, same thing, upcoming calendar events, signups links out to social media, perhaps a parent specific only Facebook group. I think that Facebook is used best in that format in ministry, um, for group type settings. And um, you know, so like parents are probably some of the, the most active users on it. I don't think we should neglect Facebook altogether, but I don't think it's super prevalent and relevant for students. And then same thing for them. I wanna also offer parent discipleship type tools, maybe a parent podcast, maybe some parent based articles and then some curated materials links out to other things, materials, whatever, whatnot. Um, and then finally leaders, um, a leader hub as well. So calendar of events, um, lessons, small group materials, videos of the upcoming lessons, if they're prerecorded or anything like that. Um, leader resources links to Facebook groups or group MES, um, applications to serve. Nick Clason (13:27): Uh, and then also some leader growth slash discipleship type tools, podcast, article, curative materials, right? And so what we wanna try and create is a place where like everyone at any time knows exactly where to go to such and such website. And they always go there, students go there, parents go there leaders go there. And then from there, it's clear if you're a student, you dive down this path. If you're a parent, you dive down this path and if you're a leader, you dive down this path. In my experience as a youth pastor, I've looked around, there are not a ton of amazing youth ministry websites out there. And I think part of the problem is because there are multiple intended audiences. Is it for students or is it for parents or is it for leaders? And I think in a lot of cases, and this is a super basic and easy marketing premise, right? Nick Clason (14:18): But the, the bottom line, the reality of it is, is that you gotta know who your audience is. And a lot of times, I don't know that that's all the way defined. So who is your audience? Figure that out and Noah, and in this case, we're realizing that there are three audiences that we really care about and that we want to aim and that we want to hit and that we want to create custom content for all three of them either create it or curate it, which means find other things out there on the internet to help kinda resource that. And then from there, if everything is built onto a website and if the website is ruthlessly updated, I think a lot of times too, youth pastors or churches think of their website as their last stop, as opposed to their first. So if the website remains ruthlessly updated, then you can just do a weekly, plain text, email scheduled from a person, pastor Craig, pastor, John, Andrew, whatever the names are. Nick Clason (15:21): Right. Um, historically I've heard that the best times to send an email is Tuesday at 9:00 AM. I dunno if that's still true, it's something I've been doing for 10 years now. Um, and then I think that, uh, you can pay attention to subscribers and open rates and click throughs through a thing like MailChimp or, um, maybe your church management software offers that ability. The last thing, um, that you know, is just interesting is, um, one of the things we're, we're debating right now and I'll let you know, kind of where we land is, do we keep the name students or do we switch over to using youth for search engine optimization purposes? What, what Matt has found and, you know, Matt used to be a marketer for dare to share. And so he found that overseas students was used a lot more frequently in America. Nick Clason (16:12): Youth ministry is the preferred term, especially on, um, Google and stuff. And actually he was showing that if you look up the word students, um, oftentimes it's in relation to college, collegiate ministry, stuff like that. And so, uh, that was just a super interesting thing. And so again, as we're building from the ground up, we're having these conversations, we, my boss and I, we both like the word youth, um, you know, can we get, can we get the church on board for it? Um, what's the branding implications, all those types of things, but that's another conversation that we're having with our, uh, communications people. So there you have it, there is my hub style website proposal for church. I'll let you know how it goes, bringing you a long lifetime for it again. Thanks for being here. Hey, hybridministry.xyz is your one stop shop for everything that we have to offer. Um, again, like I said, in our last episode, we're looking to continue to create more and more resources for you. Look for those coming here in the next month or so as Matt and I both kind of get our feet under us about what's next and where we're headed. Um, look forward to having him back on the pod at some point, but until then, stuck with me, glad to be with you. Um, and we will talk again later. Thanks guys. Check you out on the flippty flip
In this short solo episode, Nick unpacks a HubSpot.com article about common Generation Z myths in marketing and he relates those to and draws parrallels to what he sees happening in the church. How can we adjust some of our approach, what we do, and how we attempt to evangelize and disciple teenagers, and the future attenders of our churchs. SHOWNOTES https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/gen-z-myths?utmcampaign=Marketing%20Blog%20-%20Daily%20Emails&utmmedium=email&utmcontent=223400490&utmsource=hs_email TIMECODES 00:00-00:35 Myths about Generation Z 00:35-3:34 Why do we keep focusing on Gen Z? 3:34-6:04 Myth 1: Gen Z is obsessed with fast fashion 6:04-8:22 Myth 2: Data and Privacy are irrelevant to Gen Z 8:22-10:43 Myth 3: TikTok is the best place to reach Gen Z 10:43-14:51 Myth 4: Put a product in front of Gen Z and they will buy it 14:51-17:15 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): What's up everybody and welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast, solo pod this morning. Uh, I mentioned several weeks back, uh, that I had just given notice to my church. Um, and so I'm kind of in a little bit of a transition. And so I'm from church and Chicago to a church in, uh, Dallas, Texas. And so got weird travel schedule going on. So me and Matt's, uh, schedule is having a hard time lining up. So, uh, today I just wanted to chat through just a quick couple of generation Z. Um, miss, uh, and the first thing I wanted to do with that is, uh, I pulled this article from a HubSpot article. I'll link it in the show notes, super interesting. And obviously HubSpot is not a Christian company. And so they're focused more on marketing than they are, you know, like on the church or whatever. Nick Clason (00:53): Uh, but what I wanted to say was I wanted to say, why, why do we keep honing in on gen Z? Um, I think, uh, I've just had like a, I don't know, a realization over the last little bit that like churches are, um, built, I think for, for older generations, you know, they're, they're, they're doing it the way, um, it's always been done. Um, and I think that there is probably a rethink that needs to take place. And I think that when you say that to, to maybe some older generations, gen X, um, boomer, there's just an immediate knee jerk of like, you know, you can't get rid of this, you can't get rid of that. Maybe the Sunday morning se sermon, um, the way we dress, the way we do things like, and I get that, right. There's a, there's a safety and a comfort in, um, just the traditions and the habits that have been built. Nick Clason (01:47): But I think gen Z is actually a really interesting case study because, and the reason I think it's important is because I don't know that the church is being super, um, relevant to reach them. I think that the church is doing things the way it's always been done. I think you look across the landscape of, uh, church leadership. The majority of church leaders are older in their forties, fifties, some even in their sixties. Um, and you know, like you, you hate to like categorize anybody, but they may just be kinda like hanging on until retirement. And so are they really looking to innovate? Are they really looking to reach and like, sure they're looking to reach, um, but maybe they're trying to do so in such a way that is done, um, reaching people the way that, that, that they're used to reaching it and the type of model that they're built. And so the reason we keep honing in, at least I keep honing in on gen Z. First of all, like I've said before, I am a youth pastor. So that is, you know, immediately in my kinda like purview. But the second thing is I think the church needs to adapt, not because to try and reach a specific generation, but because them millennials as well and all the generations that are gonna Nick Clason (02:58): Come after gen Z are gonna be different. So how can the church, which is in my personal and theological opinion, the most relevant institution in the world, it is the one that has stood the test of time. And so this isn't me coming in and just like slinging mud at the church. It's me, um, caring deeply about the church and how do we help take it to what could be the next level. And so, um, just one this article, like I said, okay, so we're gonna kind of dive into this article, um, is five, five gen Z myths debunked. Um, and so the first one, it says gen Z is obsessed with fast fashion. All right. So obviously as a church, we don't give a ton of care to fashion or apparel or they're pur purchasing things. However, um, you know, I think that the, the, the thing that is interesting to pull kind of out of this point here is that they're saying that they're interested in fast fashion. Nick Clason (03:56): That is a myth. Um, and it's not just about what's cheapest because as I'm looking at a graph that they share question here says, does gen Z think companies should take a stance on social issues? Uh, 50% of gen Z say yes, where 26% say no, and then 24% say not sure. And I think that that piece right there is incredibly relevant for the church, because I think oftentimes as a church, we, uh, hold back our opinions because we're afraid, uh, to ostracize anybody. And I understand it and I get the notion of it. I get the importance of staying in the middle. Uh, but the people, especially the younger people that we're serving, they wanna know where we stand on things. They want us to take a stance. And that's difficult, I think, as a church because, you know, uh, gen Z tends to skew maybe a little bit more left and our church tends to skew maybe a little bit more, right. Nick Clason (04:51): If we're just speaking politically. And so how do you take a stance on what I think is most important is to take a stance the way that Jesus would take a stance. Uh, but that can be challenging, cuz that might go against either a, a gen Z type person or B, it might go against, uh, the rest of your church or their, their older framework. So how is the church? Do you have the courage to stand up and to take the stances that you need to take the, and the stances that matter to gen Z? Um, and I think perhaps the reason that we pull back on that as a church is because our church's stance coming from maybe a little more conservative position is gonna go against a little more liberal of a position of, uh, what gen Z you know, uh, typically cares about the final paragraph, right? Just to kind of highlight that the final paragraph of this, um, this first point says we, when we ask gen Zers who want companies to take a stance on which issues and which are most important to them, racial justice was by far the top at 69% followed by LGBTQ plus rights, 50% gender inequality, 46 and climate change, Nick Clason (05:57): 42. So again, just to highlight the things that gen Z is saying is the most important thing for them. Uh, the second thing here, the second myth that is debunked is that data, privacy and security are irrelevant for gen Z. And so again, they're saying that that's a myth, right? Because you know, it says here this first paragraph, I get why many people believe this one gen Z's known for being glued to their phones, which obviously comes with the risk of unsecured and unrestricted data. Right? However, it actually is the kind of the opposite. So gen Z's looking for data security, they want that to matter. So as a church, as you're creating more, maybe hybrid opportunities online giving, um, collecting their data, how are you, um, how are you, uh, keeping track of their data and how are you ensuring that it's it's safe, right? Nick Clason (06:47): Uh, furthermore, it goes on to share graph and it says, uh, gen Z's more likely to purchase from brands that number one treat their employees. Well, that's at 84% that they can trust with their data as high as 83%, um, donate to a, a portion of their profits to charity 68% actively try to reduce the environmental impact. 60% are committed to diversity and inclusion. 53% and advocate for racial justice. 51% are small businesses. 46% advocate for gender equality. 42% are owned by a person of color. 39% are owned by a member of LGBTQ. Plus 38% are woman owned, 37% and advocate for LGBTQ rights, 37%. So as you can see, the purchase decisions are strongly influenced by whether or not they can trust a company with their data, second ranked highest, but also the care about the, the issues like the, the social issues. And they're looking for those things, they care about those things. Nick Clason (07:42): And so they're gonna trust and subsequently not trust institutions that, um, that care about the things that they care about and the church we're an institution, just, we are, we're a large institution. I know we're not really a family and it should be different. And once you get into a church, I think you typically find that in most churches, especially the ones that are healthy, um, but from an outsider, especially a gen Z outsider, looking in, they're gonna look at that institution and they're gonna have some pause. They're gonna be concerned, you know, about a couple of things. Um, and as a church, how do we, how do we best make a bridge towards them? Okay. The third myth to debunk and this, listen, this is something we've talked about in this podcast. A billion times, TikTok is the best way to reach gen Z. All right. So check out what this first paragraph here says. This is a TikTok is obviously a great space for gen Z. It offers a genuine feel to the content that no other app provides. The style is quite attractive for some of our shorter attention spans and busy schedules. And in fact, 10 TikTok is the app that gen Z uses most often, despite this surprisingly, or maybe not. It is not our favorite social media platform when Nick Clason (08:54): Asked gen Z of their favorite social media app, Instagram and YouTube easily took the cake with TikTok being placed as third. So Instagram was 27%. YouTube was 23%. TikTok was 14% Facebook, 11% Snapchat, 10%. So again, we've been talking about short form video content, and I, we still think that that is king and we also have never advocated against YouTube, um, and Instagram. And so, um, especially Instagram with the, with the big push that they have right now towards reals. And so TikTok, uh, obviously is short form video content. And I think TikTok has pushed other platforms to kind of invest in that and make that more of a priority. And so how can you do that? What can you be pushing towards in that way? Um, but also, uh, Matt said this a couple weeks ago, too. Um, he said, once you reach someone with, with a TikTok video, like, yeah, that's great. Nick Clason (09:48): And all, uh, but then like, what do you, um, how do you sell them? Like, what's the next step? What's the conversion that takes place? Cause talk's a lot more just about discovery. So you discover something, but like even when you follow people on TikTok, it doesn't necessarily show them. Cuz I think majority of people spend their time on their four up page. And so you may gain a bunch of followers on TikTok, but are you showing up regularly in other people's algorithms and then thus right as a marketer, how then do you, uh, convert that into something that's actually meaningful into getting their information as a church? Um, if you're a marketer into getting their information so that you can sell them something that's a much, a much tougher sell, especially on something like TikTok. And so it's actually beneficial and advantageous to us that that Instagram and YouTube are still higher, that we can still invest in those platforms just as, as equally. Nick Clason (10:43): All right. The fourth myth here put a product in front of gen Z and they will buy it. So it says even though they gravitate towards TikTok style content doesn't mean they're receptive to just any form of short form video. Um, subsequently it says how, you know, how does gen Z prefer to discover new products on social media? Uh, 41% says through short form video. So again, that underscores what we've been saying, 36 through ads or sponsored content 32 through a feed post 29 through social media shops where purchase app happens through a story post, uh, 25% and then through an influencer 25%. All right. And so basically they there's, they just, just prefer to discover things maybe through TikTok reels or other short form videos. Um, but they don't want to imposed on them. Right. And so, uh, it actually, it goes on to say here in a world where we often feel are made to feel powerless, we strongly value a sense of autonomy and agency help us feel empowered through your actions. Nick Clason (11:45): So think about that as a church, um, we're pushing something, um, we're not selling anything, right. Um, but, but there is a level of decision that needs to be made specifically with regards to Jesus and with regards to the gospel. So how do we put the agency back in the hands of the people that we're trying to reach? Um, and a message, right. John 14, six, I am the way the truth and the life, the the is a very exclusive article there. Um, meaning that Jesus is putting and positioning himself as the person of the foremost authority. He is the way to the father. So how do we communicate that message in a culture? Um, and to a generation that they don't wanna be told what to believe. They don't wanna be told what to do. They wanna make the decision for themselves. They wanna be given the options. Nick Clason (12:37): And then they want to look around, see what their friends are thinking, um, or come to those decisions. So how do we as a church position and posture ourselves to not make it all about us, but instead to make it about the students that we are reaching. Okay. Um, and then the fifth myth here, um, word of mouth is a great way to reach gen Z, right? And I know that this one might seem contradictory. Um, but gen Z is feeling stressed outta control, doomed, like the weight of the world lies on their shoulders. And so with all this marketing that comes at them, um, we've turned, uh, what we wanna do is we wanna, um, everybody wants to put and push. Um, everybody wants to put and push an agenda, right? But like what's, what's most important, I think is still the human to human connection. Nick Clason (13:25): And obviously here we are, right. We're a, a podcast talking about the way to do ministry in a hybrid way, but there's still something about that human to human connection. And they still care about what other people say. Right. I use a lawn care company based on a recommendation. I use a plumber based on a recommendation. I feel better about things based on a recommendation than, um, a bunch of things on Google. And if I don't have that right, I then will go to Google or go to Yelp and look at reviews. Okay. So, uh, this graph here under this, this myth here, what channels have gen Z discovered new products on in the past three months? So 57% through social media, 46% through YouTube ad 42% by searching the internet 36 in retail stores, 30 by word of mouth, 23 through ads on film, TV, uh, streaming 19 through television, and then 19 through ads on music streaming like Pandora, SoundCloud, Spotify. Nick Clason (14:19): So, uh, the marketing, what this is saying, right? The marketing into gen Z spaces is that they feel comfortable on social media. Um, and that's the places that they're looking. And so, you know, even like I was saying, word of mouth, it's still, it's still value. It's still important. Um, what if your word of mouth can also underscore and come alongside of some of your online things? What if it can come alongside of some of the ads that, that they're seeing, cuz that's where they're, they're discovering the, the majority of what they, um, are, are buying and what they're purchasing. Nick Clason (14:51): So, Hey, listen guys, again, appreciate you for being here. Uh, sorry for the, the format. Sorry. Matt's not on. Um, but uh, just, I read the article. I found it super interesting and thought, man, there's a lot of like implications for the church. Um, we are, we're moving into a different age and you know, I think that the church is, I mean, I don't think I know that the church, uh, will prevail. It always has. It always will. Um, but the generations behind it are less and less, um, interested in just, uh, buying into it, hook, line and sinker. And so how do we as churches, position, posture, ourselves to make, to make the most effective impact in the lives of generations, these students, because before we know it, they're gonna be the ones that are in their twenties and then thirties and forties, and they're gonna be the ones in our churches. Nick Clason (15:41): And so we can't just keep doing things the way that we've always been doing it. Digital is incredibly important to them and the lifestyle that they're living. So how do we, as a church also find ourselves into their lives through digital means through marketing, through advertising now because we're trying to market Jesus, but because we're trying to, to reach people who are far from him and who are spending their time on these types of platforms and in these types of spaces and are becoming more and more comfortable with it. And just because they're comfortable with it and we may be less and less comfortable or even frankly uncomfortable with it, uh, doesn't mean we shouldn't, uh, force ourselves to, to figure it out and learn it and work through it. So thank you guys again for hanging out. Give us a like a subscribe. I mean, we would love to hear from you, um, from a, a review, just pull, open your purple podcast app on your iPhone and leave us a five star review, um, and a rating that would be incredible. Nick Clason (16:43): We are online at hybridministry.xyz (hybridministry.xyz) and on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Look forward to connecting with you there. Hey, listen, like I said, I am in the middle of a little bit of a transition once things get settled a little bit, um, look for quite a bit more resources information, um, uh, you know, downloadables freebie stuff that we're gonna be given away, uh, really looking forward to growing and expanding the community and our reach here on this podcast. So again, thanks for hanging with us and we will talk to you next time.
In this episode Nick interviews Matt and asks him all there is to know about running and setting up a successful facebook ad in 2022. They also jump into discussing running a Google and TikTok ad. How to retarget and reach more people for the cause and ministry of Jesus in your churches! SHOW NOTES //VIDEO TUTORIALS ON RUNNING ADS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dymukpfbg4A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGl8BPOOw&t=106s //ADDING YOUR FACEBOOK PIXEL TO YOUR WEBSITE https://www.facebook.com/business/help/952192354843755?id=1205376682832142 TIMECODES 00:00-01:04 Introduction 01:04-03:09 The purpose of online advertising 03:09-06:39 TikTok and Google Ads 06:39-07:10 Step 1 - Set up a Business Account on Facebook 07:10-10:19 Step 2 - Gather Content and Determine Time Margin 10:19-10:51 Step 3 - Clarify your win 10:51-11:31 Step 4- Run the Ad 11:31-12:07 Step 5 - 3 Questions: Target, Budget, & Goal 12:07-15:46 Step 6 - Create your Audience (MOST IMPORTANT!!) 15:46-18:15 Step 7 - Time to get creative! 18:15-21:34 When to hit the eject button on a bad ad 21:34-22:43 What is next? 22:43-26:55 How to retarget warmer leads? 26:55-28:42 Go do it! TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): What's up everybody. Welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. Your host this morning, Nick Clason, alongside the baby holding Matt Johnson. Good morning, Matt. Are you awake? Matt Johnson (00:14): Good morning. I am. Uh, I'm awake. I got the baby in my hands right now. She, uh, she's mom that I have a little bit break. Cause I heard her crying and I went, ran and grab her. So if you hear her, I'm sorry, but she has a pleasure. I hope, she won't cry. She's just gonna grunt a lot. Nick Clason (00:31): Just making grunty noises. And even if she does cry, I will do my best to fill the gap, but it's gonna be hard cuz I don't actually know what we're talking about today. This is all you so on, on today's episode, what I actually wanted to do is I wanted to talk to Matt about advertising, digital advertising. How do we do it? How do you set it up and maybe have him walk us through a little bit of what that process looks like. It can get a little bit tricky, a little bit confusing. So before anything like Matt, what are, what is the purpose of online advertising? Can you walk us through some of the examples or some of the reasons why you would even want to run an ad in the first place? Matt Johnson (01:14): Yeah, absolutely. So there, when it comes to like Facebook ads or ads in general, um, a lot of people say, oh, the purpose is to like, uh, tell you what my product is. Right? Um, so it's to bring awareness, but there is actually three main purposes for tra uh, your ads, which is awareness, consideration, and conversion. And we can really get into the differences of all those. But honestly, awareness is like, let's bring awareness for, um, you know, whatever we're trying to promote. So in this context would be your church consideration would be, you know, I'm trying to get people to like engage with us, maybe watch video, send traffic to our website, download an app, give us their email, that kinda thing. And then the conversion ad is like, Hey, I want you to buy this shirt or I want you to buy our, you know, maybe your vacation Bible school ticket or whatever that looks like. So those are gonna be a three main ads. And we're talking about ads, we'll talk about how each of those should play into each other and how this creates like this robust system for you. Nick Clason (02:30): Okay. So you would recommend doing an ad, like a, like a three tiered three prong, add one for awareness, one for consideration, one for conversion and have them all kind of like work together Matt Johnson (02:43): In a perfect marketing plan. Yes. But that's not necessarily what I'm gonna recommend for most people. Like we don't even do that at currently where we're at. So yeah. Um, uh, we mostly run awareness ads what we're trying to do, but then like, okay, we have our vacation Bible school coming up, so let's, you know, get our conversion up for that kinda stuff. But I can, we can go into like how we want those to play off of each other here in a second. Nick Clason (03:09): So, so today we're gonna focus particularly and specifically on Facebook. Um, I'm assuming, right? Matt Johnson (03:17): Yeah. We can talk a little bit about TikTok and Google, um, which are, those are probably gonna be your three main, you could also do LinkedIn, but most ad functionality is very slim to whatever we talk about. So Facebook is the easiest starting point for everyone here, Google you're, um, ads, which super easy, but that's how you see those Google ads. Like if you search something and it's the top thing, uh, like, oh, uh, for this SEO yeah. Functionality or on a YouTube ad, that's how you're gonna run those and then TikTok or, you know, just a normal ad, but they run almost exactly like a Facebook ad and LinkedIn ads are the same way. And I can know in the difference of like, why you'd wanna use one of those over the other two. Nick Clason (04:03): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, I here's the thing, I know that there's been a couple different times where I've tried to run an ad. Um, mm-hmm and I'm pretty much an idiot. And you told me about six months ago to run a TikTok ad. So I did, so I started the TikTok ad account. I did all the things, I filmed the video and then I violated some community guideline that I didn't even know. I, I violated. And so they like blacklisted my video and then I was just stuck. And even when I asked you for help, you're like, well, I can't remember what you said, but like I think I reached out to 'em and they didn't answer me um, Matt Johnson (04:45): Yeah, it's usually step one is reaching out. Um, TikTok could have, my guess is TikTok is cuz it was a religious ad. Nick Clason (04:55): Mm yeah. And well, the point, my point in saying all that is like, I just, I felt so like over my head, like right. I was just waiting into like something I never really waited into. And so it just felt, uh, if it can feel really intimidating. And so yeah, I was hoping that kind of through this, um, we could look at just a step by step ad building framework. Um, but I wanted to start there because right. The idea, I think a lot of churches, if they're like, oh, we should run an ad. Why to get more people here. Right. Um, while that might be an option or a solution to what is about to happen. Um, I think that there needs to be a little bit more of a dynamic and a little bit more of a robust why, um, understanding that there are different avenues to it. Nick Clason (05:46): There are the three different, there's the awareness, there's a consideration and there's the conversion. And so the purpose of your ad is important. It's good to define that and know the reason why you're doing it and know mm-hmm, that running an ad and anything like digital marketing online is gonna take time. And so you may not have one week, a hundred people in your church and the next week a thousand people in your church, you're probably gonna have to build to that. And that's where like the, the purpose of ad running is that it, it slowly builds that that brand awareness and equity over time. Um, at least that sounds good to me. And so I'm just saying all that stuff. And so hopefully you agree. And if I said something I shouldn't, you'll just you'll tell me I'm wrong. Matt Johnson (06:31): Yeah. Yep. No, you're good. Keep going. Nick Clason (06:33): So let's talk about it then. That's all I got. So let's talk about it then let's, uh, dive in. If you are brand new, like you have a Facebook page, um, for your church, um, let's assume that that's the starting spot then. Where do you go? Matt Johnson (06:50): Yeah. So the thing is you gotta set up a business account on Facebook. So you go, if you type in business.facebook.com, you can set up your ads account and that's how you're gonna set up your ads account. But before anyone listening to this runs an ad, I want you to ask yourself two questions. How much content do I have and what is my margin of time? And the reason I say that is cuz when we start talking about ads and how to really do ads, well, you're gonna a lot of time and a lot. It's really just ad, which is what Nick Clason (07:27): Like a one single ad one campaign. Yeah, Matt Johnson (07:30): Yeah. Which our church used to do all the time. But our conversion numbers on that where we're like 14 for, or, you know, uh, $6 for a lead. If I'm on that's bad. If I'm, yeah. If I'm over $4 a lead, I feel like a failure. Um, cause it's a waste of money honestly. And like we got our ads now to 39 cents a lead, so wow. Uh, which, you know, like that's very rare that you hit that. And honestly, we got really lucky and it's all got in that, but like that's the, but it took a lot of time, a lot of new content, a lot of new strategy for that. So if you're just like, Hey, I just wanna run one ad kind of targeted here. I have this much money. My recommendation was to would to be just to boost some posts on Facebook, which you can do that directly in your post that you create. There's like the boost button. And it's just gonna send that out to all your current followers to the front of their page. And you put that same money there and you'll have a higher conversion on that right now. So let's just start with that caveat before we jump down this pipeline. But now let's say I have the time, Nick Clason (08:34): Let, stop you for a second. Let's say like, let's talk about types of content. Like what do you mean by that? What are we looking for? Types of content wise to crazy question you say, make sure you have some, what is it like, maybe someone's sitting here thinking like, I, I might have some, but it depends. I'm not, I'm not exactly sure. Matt Johnson (08:52): Okay. So that's, we, we can really dive into that, but I would say if you don't have three pieces of unique content, don't run an ad. So, okay. We are currently running awareness ads for our church and we have nine pieces of video going out right now, Nick Clason (09:08): All at the same time. So Matt Johnson (09:09): All at the same time and they're all targeting different things and they're all being way differently, which, uh, we can kind of get into the nitty gritty of some. I can get into the nitty gritty of that. It's like actually showing how to set up an ad. I'll recommend some like videos you can watch to actually walk through that. Um, but I really cause it's hard on a podcast for me to explain, okay, you go here, press the plus button. You're like, what the heck are we talking about right now? So, um, but yeah, so have some unique content. So like a big example of this is like when we were trying to sell lead the cause at dare to share, we'd run nine videos, nine graphics and uh, um, like actual like, you know, a color background with words on it and then just nine photos. So just normal photos. Wow. I mean, that's, I mean, that's a different way to like, that's a lot of content to get, you know, a lot of people to sign up and sell out those events, which would work. So play that. So like I would recommend get one video, one photo and one graphic and that's gonna really help you start to experiment with this. Nick Clason (10:14): Okay. All right. Great. So that's, that's some of the content examples then what mm-hmm Matt Johnson (10:19): okay. So you have your content, you need to know what you're trying to promote. Okay. So you're trying to get people to come to church. Are you trying to get people to download your ebook? Are you trying to get people to register for alpha? Are you trying to get people to, um, you know, buy a shirt own? Yeah. Clarify your win. Matt Johnson (10:40): You need to know that cuz that's gonna depict. If you do an awareness campaign, a consideration campaign or a conversion campaign, and that's something you gotta define before you even start building, you know, your ads. So what's just start with the brand awareness, like an awareness campaign. So I want people just to know about my church and let's just for this example, say our church is life, church, not the actual life church, but we're just some subsid area of a life church in the middle of no. Okay. So we want people to be aware of life church. All right. So I'm gonna set up an awareness campaign with brand awareness life, church, and then the goal of that ad. So you're gonna have to choose like, okay, what is, what, um, what is like my target? What is my budget? And then you're gonna go, what is the goal? So pick your budget. I always do a daily budget when I do an ad and I always recommend start out about $10 a day. Okay. And you turn it off when you're ready to turn it off. So you don't need to spin Nick Clason (11:45): So you can run it. You can run it in perpetuity. You're saying mm-hmm if you can just keep running it mm-hmm okay. Matt Johnson (11:53): I Nick Clason (11:53): $10 a day to throw at it. Matt Johnson (11:55): Yeah. And then we turn off our ads. Once the conversion goes below what I want it to. So okay. When the ROI starts out, weighing it. So you'll go through and your name, your ad you'll schedule it out. But the big, next step is creating your audience. Matt Johnson (12:11): This is the most important part of your ad. So before you run your ad, you need to decide who am I targeting here? So, all right. We are, let's say we are life. Church is located in Phoenix, Arizona. I'm gonna target Phoenix, Arizona then. So you start with, okay, we're gonna target get Phoenix, Arizona. You're gonna pick the age. You're gonna pick like, uh, so let's say, okay, we wanna this let's say we're promoting something that's for young adults. So we would probably choose 18 to, you know, 40 year olds to come to this event. So I would target them specifically and Phoenix, Arizona. And then you can start like looking up interest and behaviors for them. So this is something that's recently just changed in Facebook in the last couple of months is you used to be able to like, uh, type in, oh, okay. Matt Johnson (13:04): Bible study in there. You can find people that have, you know, liked Bible study or Christian or whatever. So you could type in religious stuff. Facebook doesn't allow that anymore. So you're gonna have to get creative. So this is how, what we started doing, um, at dare to share. And then currently here we started thinking, all right, who, what do our people like around here? So one thing we started tar targeting was like coffee lovers. Okay. Um, is we know youth pastors love coffee. Uh, we started targeting here. This is a really funny one. Nick. I don't know if you can do it now. I'd have to double check with the new update, but we targeted skinny jeans so we started, you know, targeting people that were, were skinny jeans. Um, and you just gotta find the things that their interest in the behaviors that they all have in common as you're running the ad. So let's say Phoenix. Okay. We wanna target people that like maybe, uh, I'm trying to think of like, if there's any personalities that they even let do anymore, like they've changed it a lot. Uh, like you used to be able to like target over, Hey, you liked Lee Stroble. Matt Johnson (14:11): So let's do Lee stro, but you know what I just thought of what might be. Oh, Nick Clason (14:23): I'm sorry. Hello, Eleanor. Welcome to the podcast. We should add her as a, a host. Matt Johnson (14:30): A host. Yeah. Yeah. She, I think she she's pooping right now. Oh, oh. What? The life? Um, Nick Clason (14:36): That happens to me sometimes. Matt Johnson (14:37): Anyway. know. Uh, so let's say, uh, you think of a TV show that your congregation has all talked about or whatever. Like you can look it up for that TV. So, um, so you can like, you know, do detail targeting on that. Um, great. And then you'll do like, okay, let's how are we gonna place it? I always do like how Facebook would place it, cuz Facebook's algorithm is gonna weigh how it thinks it should. Um, and then you'll go to your next step. So does that all make sense so far before we move on to what's next? Nick Clason (15:13): Yeah. Yep. Sound good. So you're segmenting down your audience. Okay. You're choosing them. You're getting nitty gritty specific about what they are. Matt Johnson (15:22): Yep. Yep, exactly. Nick Clason (15:24): And then, um, do you need to go change a diaper so that we so that she does, so that you're good with that? Or do or can you keep plowing through Matt Johnson (15:33): Yes, I will. I will go change the diaper real quick. Okay. And Nick, you do some filler Nick Clason (15:40): Great off, off, I'll be right back off. He goes off our, our podcast marketing expert goes all right, great. So after some technical difficulties, Matt, what comes next? Matt Johnson (15:51): Yeah. So, uh, the next thing after you get your audience, you decide everything you're gonna do your ads. So you start naming your ads and this is where you make all your content. You set up your ads as image videos, carousel, collections, cetera. Um, and this is really where I want you the listener to get creative here. Okay. So this is where a copy. So all the words you write are gonna be super important. Um, cause you can do five variations of everything you write. And I say, do five variations, cuz Facebook will choose like their algorithm, which one's converting the best. That will become your number one. But so you don't wanna just do one variation there cause you're not getting Facebook any time to like learn. And this is also where you'll add in your other ad sets. So you can start doing, uh, the other videos. Matt Johnson (16:49): You maybe have other photos, graphic, whatever that looks like. So, and then we create five pieces of copy, five titles for each and get fun here. Like this is really where you should be testing out. Uh, okay, what are people gonna search or think, or what's gonna hook with them. So, um, and it's funny when I do this because I'll get so many messages from people around the church, like, Hey, uh, why am I seeing this version? And I was like, well, it's clearly, that's what your likes have. Uh, you know what Facebook has thought that you liked the most. And clearly it worked cuz you're texting me about it. Yeah. And you know, the other hunt, 99 things that go out a week, you didn't notice at all. So like that's so, um, yeah. Have fun with emojis in there. Fun titles, be funny, serious vision casting, whatever that looks like for your church. This is the time that you can start to really do it. Nick Clason (17:47): Okay. So build out. But, but when you do that, when you launch it, try to do that with a variety of different types of content, do some video, some static, post some graphic posts and is what you're doing is you're just kind of sending all of them out to Facebook to see which one performs the highest or are you letting all of them run? And then let's just say, this is your first time. Like what is a terrible like conversion? Like when is it like, okay or what's I guess maybe not even a conversion, but what is the sound? The alarms like hit the Jack button, don't run this ad anymore. It's a waste of your time, a waste of your money. Um, and what, when should they, like, this is the thing. And now with that, you should start over because it's not going well. Matt Johnson (18:31): Yeah. So, uh, Facebook will do something called free Facebook learning. So I wanna be clear like once you like post an ad, it's gonna take a couple, it usually takes about a day or two before the will start running. So just be that don't freak out. Yeah. Don't freak out and also triple check all your copy and all that stuff. Cause if you change anything, it goes back into Facebook learning. So you're like, oh crap, I did this or whatever. It's gonna have to go back and learn again. Uh, when it comes to hitting a jet, uh, that's really on you of what your budget is and your like what your goals are. But like I said, if we're over $4 on a person for a conversion, I hit check on it. Matt Johnson (19:12): OK. Um, honestly it's usually if it's above $2 for us at our current church, just cause you know, money is, uh, something that you have to be cognitive of. So yeah. Um, if we're under $2 on our ad conversion, then great. Like we will, uh, keep writing that ad and I'll pour gas on it is what I tell the that's taking off. Let's put another, you know, 500 towards it until it starts to not as well. And then when it stops converting, well you can, let's the, title's try the copy let's even, or the colors, the background. And then you get to the point where it's like, okay, this ads run its course and you take that audience so you can take that cold list and the audience you learn from and advertise with, to them for something whatever's next for you. Nick Clason (20:01): Mm. Okay. So let's pretend like for you and, and us, we've been, we're running ads now for a while. Mm-hmm uh, is $2 something that like you build up to, or is that like a pretty standard practice? Like even if you're brand new, um, you wanna try and shoot to be under $2? Matt Johnson (20:20): Uh, I would say shoot for under $4 right now. Like everyone try to shoot Nick Clason (20:28): Four and then maybe as you, as you do more of this and as you become more familiar with it, you might, you might be able to whittle that down. You're saying Matt Johnson (20:38): Y yep. Yeah, definitely. Nick Clason (20:40): Okay. So, so the, the, the experience and the more familiarity and the more volume that you do with it, like will hopefully help, help drive that down. So I just wanna be clear that people are like that $2. That's your benchmark, but you've been doing this and yeah, you're pretty advanced on it. So it's, it's, you know, that's not a starting spot necessarily. Matt Johnson (21:03): No. I mean, there's sometimes that like this for this audience, you know, I keep it her $4 or $2, but like, let's say you have a 300, 500 product. If you're converting at $10 a person at that point, like the ROI outweighs it, you know? So it really depends on the product. Sure. But, um, if you're running free ads for awareness and just trying to get people to go to your website, if you're over $4, like don't get eject there, you know? Nick Clason (21:34): Okay. So you're just kinda watching the dashboard. Now you're watching the conversion rate. You're seeing which one is converting. What, if anything is next? Matt Johnson (21:47): Yeah. So that, uh, really will, um, come down to what your strategy is honestly. So, uh, right now we run a monthly awareness campaign at our church. Um, and what I do is like, we wanna just build up our audience on our Facebook ads. And as we're about to launch our summer ebook, we'll retarget, all those people that might have watched our awareness ad with the conversion ad or an engagement ad now. Um, OK. So it's a good way to like get in your pipeline. So I would recommend like, Hey, run ads for, you know, a couple months before Christmas, even, and then like target everyone for Christmas time or trunk or treat or whatever that looks like for you. Like you have some options there. Um, and also like, okay, go ahead. Do you, Nick Clason (22:38): Do you, uh, go back into like, say ad number one and everyone who's become an audience member of ad, number one, do you say target this ad to them? Or like, how does that work? And I get it, I'm sounding like, I don't know what I'm doing, cuz I don't. So Matt Johnson (22:55): When you're staying Nick Clason (22:56): Retarget, what do you do? How do you actually like go to those people? Matt Johnson (23:00): So it's really built off your Facebook pixel, um, which that's becoming a, you know, a little bit of a issue with new privacy laws, but you know, right, right now you can still kind of use it and it's retargeting people as you're creating your audience, you can like say target my Facebook pixel through this time or whatever, which should, if it's an awareness campaign and they're going to whatever you're trying to do. It's like if they're, if you are doing awareness campaign and the whole point was for them to go to your website, mm-hmm or to just click on your Facebook page, your Facebook pixel will read that if you put your Facebook pixel in your website, you have it. If you haven't, I'll give you, we'll put a resource in the show notes about how you can do that. Super easy takes 30 seconds to do. Matt Johnson (23:45): Um, you can retarget those people, uh, cuz they would be a warmer lead for you. So you're targeting people that have essentially seen your ad at that point. Um, another thing um, you can do is like target people that have watched a video for a certain length. So, uh, that's why videos are really good. And we did a lot of that at dare to share like, okay, this person watched the video, we wanna only target people. I've watched this video for 30 seconds. OK. So we've run ads that were like, um, you know, 15 minutes long cuz we wanted people to watch as much as they could. So we target 'em different and Netflix does this sometimes and it's kinda rare. I haven't seen it in a little bit, but they used to run ads of full episodes of a show. Wow. On YouTube. So before YouTube, a video would start on YouTube, you could watch a full episode of like an example right now it's really big as the scene man. So like maybe sand man's episode, one would pay, play as a full episode and then Netflix can just retarget you over and over. Cause you watch an hour of their content. So they know this person's hooked. Nick Clason (24:53): Yeah. that Matt Johnson (24:54): Gotta get subscribe. So you can do that too. So you can get really creative with this stuff. Nick Clason (24:58): Mm interesting. Okay. But so then that audience just kind of like builds in that Facebook, the business Facebook like add place and you're just saying, okay, uh, send this ad to someone who watched a video for longer than 30 seconds or send this ad to person who engaged with our ad at such and such level. And you're doing that for, you know, so if you run a bunch of awareness adds, what you're saying is you can do a bunch of awareness ads and then once you get to Christmas, once you get to VBS, once you get to like your big event that you're actually trying to then go from like a awareness to like a conversion, you can start to specifically target those people be because in marketing words, they're warmer, they've engaged with you longer or at least at some level through previous ads. Okay. Matt Johnson (25:48): Yep. So a good example of this is like right now we're running an awareness ad. My goal is not like conversion rate on anything yet. Like how much it cost. It's just how many results people are we getting like to play our ad a week. And our goal is about 10,000 a week and we're hitting about 10,000 people. Every seven days are looking at our ads. And now that we're about to launch our fall ebook, we're gonna just retarget all those people that might have, you know, done a through play on our stuff to download the fall ebook. Nick Clason (26:18): OK. OK. Matt Johnson (26:19): So they're Nick Clason (26:20): Interesting. Matt Johnson (26:21): We're building trust. So the, I whole idea of your ad is to build trust with them and not to go back to the days of like commercials where it's okay. I'm just trying to get you to buy this product or whatever. Right. Like build trust with your audience. So give them a reason to wanna keep seeing your stuff. Nick Clason (26:38): Yeah. Yeah. Well it's like what we were talking about right. At the beginning, right? Like this isn't going from a a hundred people to a thousand people. You're trying to like yeah. Be a good mentor show, show them that your church is trustworthy and all that type of stuff. So. Yep. All right. Great. Um, anything else? Like that's a, that's uh, how to get it going, how to get it set up all those types of things. My audio cut out in the middle for half of it. So you were just flying solo and you didn't even know no. Matt Johnson (27:06): What are we missing? Nick Clason (27:09): Changing diaper. We had a very productive morning. Yeah. What's the last little bit of thing that, that the people need to know anything. Matt Johnson (27:17): Um, like go set up some ads for $10 a day, try a week out or whatever. Um, just go test it, watch some videos we'll put so a bunch of stuff in the show notes for you. And I also wanna be clear, like ads are changing constantly. Just like everything else that we've talked about. Like, you know, this is this week, next week. This could all just drastically change. Cause you know, Facebook just decides, Hey, this is what we wanna do now. You know? Or Google decides, oh, we're not doing it that way anymore. We're not gonna weigh our, uh, our Google ads as high. We're gonna go back to YouTube ads being weighed higher. There's always, you never know. So just keep that in mind too. So I'll even put into some resources that you can check in. Like what's most updated stuff for ads. So, uh, love it. We'll have a lot of, lot of stuff. This is definitely more techy and more of the technical side of everything we talk about on here. It's not philosophical at all. Yeah. So anyone can do it. You just gotta have patience and go test it out. Nick Clason (28:18): Yep. Love it. All right guys. That's it for today then? Uh, like and subscribe, give us a, uh, rating. If you found this helpful, please share it with a friend hybrid ministry.xyz online at hybrid ministry on Twitter and we will catch you next time. Matt Johnson (28:38): Bye guys.
In this episode, Matt and Nick take an article from HubSpot which gives several good marketing ideas to brands, and break them down about how those same ideas could be used in the local church. They also discuss how social and short form video is affecting the attention span of people and what that means for churches moving forward. SHOWNOTES HUBSPOT ARTICLE REFERENCED: https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/short-form-video-trends?utmcampaign=Marketing%252520Blog%252520-%252520Daily%252520Emails&utmmedium=email&utmcontent=219842216&utmsource=hs_email TIMECODES 00:00-02:26 Intro and Short Form Video Trends 02:26-03:56 Why Short Form is the most effective 03:56-07:16 What htis means for church services 07:16-11:08 How churches can use trendy content 11:08-14:04 Brand Challenges 14:04-17:46 Use of Influencers 17:46-24:06 Product Teasers 24:06-26:38 User Generated Content 26:38-29:57 Behind the Brand Videos 29:57-34:13 More Educational Videos 34:13-37:31 What plaforms should we use besides TikTOk and Reels? 37:31-38:29 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): What is up everybody. Welcome to episode eight of the hybrid ministry podcast with me as always on these glorious mornings, Matt Johnson sipping his coffee. Matt, what type of coffee are you drinking this morning? Matt Johnson (00:17): Uh, I am drinking a local light roast from around here that supports, um, kid cancer whenever you buy it. So, wow, Nick Clason (00:28): Dude, you're such, you're such a good citizen of the world. Matt Johnson (00:33): Don't know about that, but you know, I love good cause Nick Clason (00:36): Is it, is it hot or ice this morning? Matt Johnson (00:39): It's hot this morning cuz I was in a rush. So I just, you know, grinded up my beans and threw it in the Keurig real quick. Nick Clason (00:45): Nice. Um, well I don't, I don't know if mine supports anything, but I roasted it yesterday in my garage. So there you go. There's that I guess Matt Johnson (00:55): Supports you. Nick Clason (00:56): Yeah, it does. Matt Johnson (00:58):
Nick Clason (00:59): And I, so I, we were at summer camp two weeks ago and I roasted a gigantic batch. Um, and I brought it to camp and I thought I was gonna be safe, but then all the leaders wanted to try my, my freshly roasted coffee, which is fine. I wanted to, you know, I wanted to share with the people, but that's the yesterday was the first time I'd roasted since camp, cuz I I'd just, you know, it was my birthday in between there. So I got a couple bags of coffee. So I've been been using that. So here we go. No one cares, but that's, that's the low down on my coffee situation. Matt Johnson (01:30): I love your coffee situation. Nick Clason (01:32): well today, uh, we wanted to talk about short form video trends because we haven't talked about short form video enough, right? Matt Johnson (01:44): Nope. Not even close. Nick Clason (01:45): No. Well, and even though we have it's, it is everything right now on social media and on the internet. And so we wanted to, um, we have, there's a, a HubSpot article that came out a couple of weeks or months ago and I wanted I'll link that in the show notes. So you guys can check that out hybrid ministry.xyz, but also, uh, I wanted to go through that and then kind of bring some of the, bring some of our like church ideas kind of into that. So mm-hmm so that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Um, so let's just dive into it. You ready? Matt Johnson (02:24): I'm ready. Nick Clason (02:25): Let's do it. So, uh, the first thing is that 85% of marketers say that short form video are the most effective format of video on social media. Well actually mm-hmm, not even video most Matt Johnson (02:40): Effective just general Nick Clason (02:41): Format on social media, 85%. That's crazy. Mm-hmm what are those other 15% even trying to say? Do you know Matt Johnson (02:50): Um, the other 15% aren't being seen I'll tell you that, um, I've even seen people that are doing static images as videos now. So that's kind, that's just kinda the world we're in. Nick Clason (03:03): So they literally post like a JPEG and turn it into a video. Matt Johnson (03:08): Yeah. So they'll like, you know, fade in the text or whatever. And you're like, this is literally just a static image with text that fades in Nick Clason (03:15): all all to be seen by short form video. Is that just because the algorithms have changed? Is that because of the popularity of TikTok? Is that like what what's behind that? Do you feel, Matt Johnson (03:27): Uh, it's a hundred percent TikTok. Um, you can see every big, uh, organization has been trying to mimic TikTok. You saw it with Instagram, with reels, YouTube was shorts, um, Facebook with their promotion of just video in general. So it immediately, once TikTok blew up the way it did. Cause it's been a long time since we've seen a social media channel grow as quickly as TikTok did. Yeah. Everyone had to get back on board with it. Nick Clason (03:56): Yeah. It says there's a quote in here that says the growth of social media is causing the human tension span to become shorter and shorter. So leveraging the power of short form video content will give you a leg up on the competition and help you engage your audience. And so mm-hmm, what, like, do you feel like that is a threat to, uh, the traditional in room church gathering 35 minute sermon model Matt Johnson (04:27): A hundred percent. Yeah. That's something that I don't think we're talking enough about as a church. Um, instead of actually, you know, trying to cater to this, you know, new generation, uh, millennial, gen Z gen alpha that are their short, their attention spans are shortening we've I've noticed church sermons are getting longer or um, oh, we'll just have more production into it, you know, more lights, more action. But um, if you're live experience, isn't on par with, uh, you know, like a big live concert almost at this point or short, you're not gonna be able to capitalize on it. So just an unfortunate world we are in right now. But uh, I think there's some creative solutions that we could figure out and that some of these tasks out there can help us figure out. Nick Clason (05:13): Yeah. How, how do like where's the line though? You know, like where's the line on, like we need to cater to them versus like, you know, preaching, biblical content is still meaningful and important and we should still do that as well. You know what I mean? Like when I feel like that probably just has to happen at every church's, uh, like value level, they just have to have that conversation and be like, well, this is what the world is seeing, but this is where like we're gonna stake our claim or whatever, you know? Cause I do think we can get into a slippery slope there and just be like, well, sermons are gone, you know? And I dunno that we're trying to, I dunno that we're trying to say that either. You know what I mean? I think that we should be, be cognizant of where that, where that line is. Matt Johnson (05:59): I think the big thing that people, and this is a way bigger tangent than what we had planned on, but Nick Clason (06:05): For sure, I didn't even know we were going this way. Matt Johnson (06:08): I think a big thing that we're at to figure out as, uh, as churches is just what, what is that next iteration of the sermon that we can figure out? So I don't think we need, you should at all straight away from biblical teaching and biblical truth. And if you're shying away from talking about Jesus at your church, I strongly feel like you're failing as a church. Like yeah, people wanna hear about Jesus when they're at church, they wanna hear about the Bible, it's the way you deliver it. So I just think we have to start kind of figuring out what, uh, your sermon 2.0 would be like, and I do not have a solution for that at all. Um, you know, someone will figure it out and they'll blow up and we'll all go and then everyone will copy them for the next 10 years. So Nick Clason (06:55): Yeah, but in the meantime, like there are solutions to the, the hybrid kind of side of it, right? The, what happens, what happens Monday through Saturday, the days you're not in the auditorium the days you're not at church and that's really where kind of this article comes in. So mm-hmm, uh, they say that this, this article also has another stat, says 63% of marketers say that trendy content related to cultural moments and news stories generate the most video engagement. So that's really what that's saying. If I'm understanding that statistic correctly is just that like things that are relevant tend to perform the most. Like if it copies a, if it copies a trend or if it copies a dance or if it copies a, a song that, or, you know, a sound that's going viral, like those are the ones that perform better on average Matt Johnson (07:48): Mm-hmm . Yep. Yep. Definitely. So that's something you gotta keep in mind too. So that is the majority still. It's not like the, um, it's not like 75% though. 63%. That's a still, that's a pretty good percentage of people that, of your content that should be probably more trendy relevant rather than just original stuff that you're trying to get relevant. Nick Clason (08:11): Yeah. And that's gonna require someone to kind of have their finger on the pulse of that. You're not just going to like pull open TikTok and like no trends. Matt Johnson (08:21): Uh, yeah. And that's, that's gonna be the biggest challenge. Yeah. Mm-hmm Nick Clason (08:25): Yeah. So who is that person? And there's probably, there's probably a young person in your church that, that does know that, you know, whoever you are listening to this, whether that's you or you're in leadership at your church, like that's a, that's a, there's a person out there that you can probably delegate that to, or at least tap into their knowledge. Cuz I actually, you know, this is the, here's a great case study for this. So I post on TikTok all the time, uh, at our church and I was posting and um, these students of mine were like, you should do this. And I was like, no, no. I was like, this is what's working on our TikTok. And I'd like, told them this thing. They're like, what? I can't remember. They basically like, no you're wrong. We just need to do this thing. And I was like, whatever, I didn't have, like, I didn't have a plan for like my next post anyway. So I was like, that's fine, whatever. We'll just do it. And so we did it and it was by that night it was the number one video on our TikTok channel Matt Johnson (09:25): and they Nick Clason (09:27): Were like freaking out about it. They're like sending me screenshots. I'd like, Nick, this is the number one video on our to channel. And I was like, yeah, I'm an idiot. You guys are smarter Matt Johnson (09:37): Than me. when it comes to having yeah. When it comes to having the finger on the pulse of trends, your students are gonna be the people that know what's going on. Nick Clason (09:46): Yeah. Which I posted something on our Twitter the other day and there's like, you know, TikTok ideas, like short form video ideas. And one of them basically is like, ask your youth group smiley face. Matt Johnson (09:57): Yep. Nick Clason (09:58): Just go to them, like stop putting some 35 year old in charge of, of TikTok. Like go ask the 15 year olds who are spending all hours of all days on it. They will bring you the trends. They'll bring you the ideas and Matt Johnson (10:12): Exactly Nick Clason (10:12): Crap, dude. They'll probably even like do it for you if you want 'em to like Matt Johnson (10:16): Yeah. Which is actually one topics we talk about. Yep. Nick Clason (10:20): And, and that's what man, we talk about that, or that's been talked about in like the growing young study by four youth Institute, Kara Powell, all those people, they talk about this idea of key chain leadership, like give, give the, the students who have, uh, some level of authority and responsibility within their church are more inclined to stick with their faith. Mm-hmm so if you give them some sort of ownership of it, you know, but oftentimes I think we just shy away from that because they could make us look bad or they could do something that we don't know or trust, but you know, that's a, it should, church should be a safe place for them to express that and, and try things and fail and, and all those things. So. Matt Johnson (11:05): Yep. Exactly. Nick Clason (11:06): Yeah. All right. So, um, let's look at these six ideas. Um, and we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about six short form video trends to look out for. Uh, the first one is brand challenges. So Matt talk about what a brand challenge is for just a second, so that us, uh, layman and idiots know what that even means. Matt Johnson (11:32): Yeah. So a brand challenge, um, is essentially taking the viral content idea. So if you, if you're li if you're listening to this and you have no idea how TikTok works TikTok, you can actually search stuff by like dances songs and sounds, um, which is what makes it stick out from a lot of the other social media platforms. So it's not like based off of hashtags or actually trying to search, or you can search things off of filters. Like that's like the world of TikTok. So you can search actually based off of the content. So as a brand, you could create like a brand challenge sound. So let's go back to, um, a couple years ago in the ice bucket challenge. Okay. And how big that got before the world of TikTok. Now think if your brand could actually mimic the success of the ice bucket challenge on TikTok and how big that could actually get. Matt Johnson (12:32): Uh, so it's really taking this idea of, Hey, we're challenging you to, uh, you do something, whatever that looks like. So a great way you could do this as a church is we wanna challenge you to, uh, talk to God five times this week. Um, or, Hey, we wanna challenge you to pray twice this week. Like you can come up with some spiritual challenges that people can do, or you can come up with some church challenge or like more outreachy challenges. So like, um, we wanna challenge you to, you know, see with Jesus' eyes five times this week and help somebody on the street. Um, so it's like starting to be more cognitive, uh, to help people be more cognitive of like their day to day. Uh, another good example of this is like Colgate for mother's day. They did like this huge make mom smile challenge, which was really a challenge to just post photos of your mom or a video of your mom on TikTok. Matt Johnson (13:34): And it was for mother's day in Colgate, you know, make mom smile, get white teeth. I don't know, but it was really just a way to get people to post their mom and everyone's gonna post their mom. So, or you could come up with a challenge like who you're praying for this week, post a photo of who you're praying for this week or a video of who you're praying for this week or a video of who you're bringing to youth ministry this week. I'm not gonna see these challenges are gonna go viral. Like, you know, um, the ice bucket challenge, but they could go viral in your church. And that's really the, all that you need right now. Nick Clason (14:04): Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, wow. I got super echoy. I had to move cuz my kids came down the basement. Yeah, Matt Johnson (14:13): You got real echoy. Sorry. Nick Clason (14:16): Um, the next one it talks about, it talks about influencer ads. So mm-hmm, um, obviously we're a church. We're not trying to be influencers mm-hmm but what, like what would be something that we could do in the church with, with that idea? Matt Johnson (14:36): Yeah. So influencer marketing is always going to give you a higher ROI, always. Um, yeah. That's just because think about the people you trust and how you take, you know, what they say higher than others. So, good example of this in the church world is, you know, Lee Stroble is a massive influencer for the Christian community or Dave Ramsey. Um, so if you like got buy-in from them, you're probably more likely going to like purchase whatever, you know, these stro or Dave Ramsey's talking about. Um, now in your world, let's say we're at a church of, you know, let's say really small church just planted. I have 80 people at my church. You're probably not gonna be able to get a Lee Stroble to talk about your church. I mean, if you got Lee stro, talk about your church, that's a big deal. Nick Clason (15:29): Well, and I mean, what's that thing, that cameo thing you could do that Matt Johnson (15:33): You could do a cameo. Yeah. But uh, usually Lee Strobel, cuz you know, I've worked with him, his, uh, the asking price could be a little high for his ads and that's because he is Le Strobel. Yeah. Um, and he did a lot of stuff for favors for us though. Cause he is a really nice guy, but like we also like getting him just speaking, you know, it costs money. I mean he's worth it, whatever. Um, so how can you do influencer marketing in your church? Well, your pastor can be considered an influencer. Um, he, I mean, obviously he's probably the big influencer on your campus. Uh, so you start using him in a more strategic option to like promote stuff. You could also, if you really wanna get creative, find these people that you would call influencers in your church. So let's say this is gonna sound real bad, Nick, and you can push back all you want. Matt Johnson (16:28): Cause this is definitely like going to a weird space with your youth group. But as a youth leader, I, um, you could definitely find the popular kid yeah. And get the popular kid to, you know, start pushing stuff on like be your influencer for you. Um, yeah. Yeah. Now we don't wanna play favorites or anything like that obviously. But at the same time, if you know, like, Hey, if I got, let's say Abigail, for instance, to like get on board for this, I know she would get like 12 other people to get on board for this. That's a good use for influencer marketing. So think of influencer marketing on a small scale at your church that could grow into a bigger scale and just make that short term, uh, short form video. Like that's the key to all this. So Nick Clason (17:13): Yeah. I don't think like, like we've said, I don't think our goal is to become, get famous people or whatever. Right. But no, but you're right. If, if your senior pass, especially if your senior pastor is not a part of your social media channels too often, like when you post him, that's going to, that's gonna have that effect, you know? Yep. If you are the senior pastor you're listening to this and you are the primary person running things on digital and social, like then there is, you're not gonna have that same influencer or effect because you're the primary face on there. You know what I mean? Yep. So you gotta exactly. Who else are you gonna put out there? All right. The next thing we talk about is, uh, product teasers. So, um, this is talking about, you know, it says anywhere from six to 60 seconds, um, where you're teasing something that's coming. I think this one is one that works perfectly within the church. Mm-hmm you know what I mean? Yep. Matt Johnson (18:03): Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's like think of a traditional commercial is usually a product teaser, so Nick Clason (18:10): Yeah, exactly. And so one of the things we did, um, all gosh for probably like 5, 4, 4, 5 months, uh, on our TikTok was just the teaser, uh, round signing up for summer camp. So we did all kinds of stuff that was promoting the idea of summer camp, giving a sneak peek to summer camp. Um, you know, funny videos about summer camp, but it was all about some upcoming event. And that was obviously within the realm of our student ministry. Mm-hmm . And so if you're running this for a church, you have not only summer camp coming up, but you have vacation Bible school and you have the adult Bible study starting and you have financial peace university on its way, and you have the missions trip, uh, domestic and international and you, so you have a million things and that's, that's probably more, the challenge is trying to figure out what or how to promote everything, but product product teasing is something that can become very easy to do. You know what I mean? Uh, in the church world. Matt Johnson (19:14): So mm-hmm yep, absolutely. Nick Clason (19:16): So real quick, before we jump to the next one, uh, as someone who does marketing in the church, Matt, what is your like preferred model for knowing what to promote and how often, and do you have like a, do you have like a framework built? Do you have like a, a rule of thumb? That's good, good practice for that because you know, if you're in the seat, you're in the kids' ministry wants their announcement and the student ministry wants their announcement and the women's ministry wants their announcement and the seniors ministry wants their announcement who gets the announcement. Matt Johnson (19:52): Great question. So step one is making, um, the various ministries kind of work together and work backwards. So the rule of thumb on any given Sunday for us is three announcements. And that is just because we know three decisions is as many as people can do before they start feeling overwhelmed. So if I give you four decisions, that fourth decision is gonna take less precedent than the other three. So that's step one is get the ministries to like, not launch five things on the same weekend, which we all wanna do. I, we all wanna do it, but don't do it. It's just two the next week. It's fine. Um, secondly is, uh, yeah, we, we have built, uh, an SOP, a standard operating procedure to really define what takes precedent over everything. So, um, what gets on social media is gonna be different than what gets in our email for the week, which will be different than what's on stage, which will be different than what the pastor talks about. Matt Johnson (20:56): And this is all weighed depending on the, um, the outreach draw of it. So, um, social and email, we have decided that email is for internal. So if this is more of internal event, so rooted, rooted is not gonna be something that you invite friends to really that are not part of the church, cuz rooted is gonna make you go deep in small groups. That should just be our newsletter and um, probably our host spot. And why I say that for the host spot for that is because, uh, that's a great way to get people that are in the church that probably have not done rooted. And they're new to go, okay, go do this to take next step with Parkview. Um, uh, the set, the next thing. So then social like alpha is great for social media because that's an external thing. So I can run, you know, ads behind that and get people to come to that. Matt Johnson (21:59): And then, uh, like if it's something that's gonna really affect everyone and that's a big deal that goes to the pastor to talk about in his spot. So let's say we have like family weekend coming up our next gen weekend. That's something that should probably be talked about by the pastor when the most captive audience is there. If that's something that we have said as a church, like that's hu ways higher than everything else. So you really just gotta define who your target is for everything that you're trying to promote. And then you can kind of figure out where they fit in your puzzle piece of all the digital platforms you have. Um, what's Nick Clason (22:36): The, what's the biggest, like, can you think of a time, like the number one time that you had like multiple people vying for, for something like, and how did you filter through that? Matt Johnson (22:47): Oh, I mean, it happens all the time at where we're at now and it's because everyone thinks their stuff is super important urgent. And the big thing is just sitting down with everyone and explaining their target and actually getting their purpose. And once they start realizing, oh yeah, mine is internal. Mine's really only for preschoolers. It's like, okay, then we should target preschoolers. Like this should not be, you know, an all church thing, um, necessarily it could be depending on what the event is, but 99% of the time, it's not going to be, um, now at a smaller church and maybe you have less going on. That's okay to like talk about all this stuff with your congregation and be like, yeah, I do have a friend that has a preschooler and I've talked about God with them and they might be interested to come, but like, that's great. That's a great avenue for that. But when you have eight different type of group functionalities, plus five kids things, plus your student things, plus your, um, mission things on top of, uh, we have mass baptism weekend or whatever, like you gotta really start kinda weighing what is actually gonna get you the most bang for your, your most bang for your buck, quote, unquote, Nick Clason (23:56): Bang for your, Matt Johnson (23:58): I was saying quote with buck unquote quote. Nick Clason (24:04): All right, great. Those just like a quick deviation, but uh, okay. So the next thing here in this article is more user generated content. All right. So what's that. And how can churches use it? Matt Johnson (24:18): User generated content is literally just getting your users to create content for you. So, um, Nick Clason (24:25): That feels like churches could do pretty Matt Johnson (24:28): Easily, oh, a hundred percent. You should be doing it. And user generated content has actually been shown. I haven't seen the most recent studies, so don't quote me on this, but it was, uh, shown to be one of the highest ways for conversion rate. And that's because you're trusting someone that, you know, you so it's. So if you think about it in the hierarchy of like influencer marketing commercials and then user generated content user generated, content's gonna have the highest conversion because Nick, if you tell me about something, I'm gonna trust that more than if Lee Stroble tells me about something, which I trust Leero more than, uh, my I'm watching a Dodgers game and there's a commercial that comes on. So if you think about that Nick Clason (25:10): H baseball, right? Matt Johnson (25:13): Cause baseball is good. Nick, it's good for the heart, especially when you have a team that wins a lot. So if you think about that hierarchy, that like, okay. Yeah. It's building that trust user generated content is gonna weigh higher. Nick Clason (25:28): Yeah. Yeah. Uh, how, how, how, like, how could churches go about capturing user generated content? Matt Johnson (25:38): Um, great way is, do you have some kids you trust, well, have them run your Instagram or TikTok for the day? Um, yeah. You're at camp. Uh, have your students do be like, Hey, I want you guys to promote camp today, take the camera or the GoPro with you and you guys just go crazy. Like you have some options there there's a lot, like it CR this is where you can get whoever you want to be as creative as they possibly can within the context of whatever your, uh, your guidelines are at your church. Nick Clason (26:09): Yeah. Well, I'm thinking too, man, you could even do, uh, like what's it called? Like takeovers on Instagram stories. Mm-hmm, you know, um, little things like that. Give, give people like a kind of a glimpse a day in the life, all that type of stuff. Uh, I did that one year at camp where a different person took over Instagram for the day, you know, and they just, they got access to our student mystery account for the day. So, all right. Uh, sweet. The next one is more behind the brands videos. So this one's like a, this one's like a, I don't know, like kinda like a behind the scenes one, but it says mm-hmm, , uh, a sprout social study said that 70% of consumers say they feel more connected to brands who, uh, whose CEO is active on social media platform. So that goes to that senior pastor thing. Nick Clason (27:02): Um, but what are, what are some of the behind the scenes? Like, you know, we that's, that one feels like a super easy one for churches. Like people see what you want them to see on a Sunday morning or whatever, but where, but given them a glimpse into the office or the staff meeting or the prayer meeting, or a tour of like a, a place that normal people don't get to see those types of things, I feel like are super a, you know, have such a chance to blow up for people to just get excited about it. Matt Johnson (27:36): Yep. Yeah. And it's super easy. Like do walk around the office and say, Hey, here's Doreen. I want you to know about her and meet her and give your testimony or whatever. Or here's our meeting room or here's our staff meeting today, or here's our prayer time today, like build that stuff or take a photo of it and post it. And we have personally seen this be some of our, uh, highest, uh, converting slash liked and engaged stuff that we have done. And this is something we've recently just added to our world. So, um, getting, and it's so easy, Nick, it's so easy. Like you just walk up to someone with your phone and you film them for 30 seconds and then get couple hundreds on it. Nick Clason (28:13): Yeah. Yeah. Super easy. So, you know, you can even add that it's like a once a week, like a actually, uh, you've passed a friend of mine. He used to do this thing called, uh, what's behind that door. And it was just like a series that he would do. And he'd like explore different closets basically in the church, you know? And he had a little bumper with it and he would just do it. It was honestly, it was very TikTok esque before TikTok. He was just posting on his Instagram, like feed, but that was basically what he was doing. And then I remember one, he did like a super funny one. where he like went up into the attic and he planted this like baby doll. And so he like shown the flashlight and the attic on the baby doll. And then it just showed him like freaking out, like running away and then just standing there, like stunned at the end. Nick Clason (29:01): And that's how it ended like this, the perfect TikTok archetype, but he was doing it like before, before talk's time, even, you know? But I love that. Just little things like that that are just fun. What's behind that door, you know, what's that closet. Have you ever, have you ever wondered what this is? Like, there's, there's a million probably things in your church like that, and it's stupid stuff. Right? Like you hide it for the weekend, but people, people eat that stuff up, man. If they're like, this is our Christmas storage closet, for whatever reason, they're like, ah, it's amazing. Like I think because there's like a vulnerability there, they just feel like a greater sense of connection to your church. Yep. Because of that, like, oh yeah. I, I got to see where they have the Christmas trees, like who cares, but people do Matt Johnson (29:47): They do. And um, it's easy. like, that's all I could say. It's easy. Just do it. Nick Clason (29:53): Yeah. Yeah. There's really no reason not to. All right. The last one that this, uh, HubSpot article has here is more explainer or educational videos. And I feel like this is the one that the church can just go absolutely crazy on Matt Johnson (30:06): Mm-hmm Nick Clason (30:07): Mm-hmm so here's what I wanna do. I wanna do a little game. You ready? I didn't even tell you about this. Mm-hmm and it's coming to my brain right now for the very first time. Love it. So I want us to make a list and we're just gonna bounce back and forth. And the person who, uh, runs out of ideas first loses you ready? Matt Johnson (30:25): A list of Nick Clason (30:26): A list of educational or explainer videos. Okay. So like things that churches could do, um, great. And I'll start, then you go then back to me, then you, does that make sense? We're gonna ping pong it back and forth. Matt Johnson (30:39): Yep. Nick Clason (30:40): All right. So, um, you could do a, how to pray video, Matt Johnson (30:47): Man. That was on my mind. You could do a how to share your faith video. Nick Clason (30:51): Mm that's a good one. You could do how to read your Bible video. Matt Johnson (30:55): You could do how to share your testimony video. Nick Clason (30:58): that? I don't know. That seems very close to the first one. You said, uh, you Matt Johnson (31:03): Could do test. Well, I guess how do you share Jesus and how do you do your testimony? I guess Nick Clason (31:10): You could do, uh, you could explain like a deep theological truth, like the holy spirit or something like that. Matt Johnson (31:19): Oh yeah. That's good. Uh, one of my favorite types of videos is, uh, like dumbing down, complicated Bibles mm-hmm or, you know, so like, uh, talk about Leviticus that makes sense for people or numbers, you know? Nick Clason (31:37): Yeah. Yeah. That's like the Bible project. Yep. Um, you could do. Yeah. What was I gonna say? I had something, uh, uh, maybe I'm gonna lose here. Uh, you could do, uh, nah, I, I think I lost man. You win. Congratulations. Um, thanks. Yeah, but you see, like we could have gone a lot longer, but I'm an idiot. Oh, Matt Johnson (32:01): Definitely. Well, you had it. It's it's early, everybody. Nick Clason (32:05): That's so early. And this is my fourth room that I'm in now. Cuz I, my kids took the only room that didn't echo and now I'm sitting in a bedroom closet. That's just like the echoes of all the echoes. But I was thinking you could, yeah, you could do Bible content. Oh, this is what I was gonna say. You could do, like you could share, uh, unknown stories of the Bible you could share. I love that. Um, you know, like the weird, like the Balo and the Baylor story, or you could share like the, the name and diving in the, in the Jordan river, like you could just, you could pull some of the, the silly verses out, you know, and explain them. You could, there's just, there's a million different ways you could do overviews of, of new Testament, old Testament who wrote the book, why that's important, how to do hermeneutics, how do homo Lytics, like, there's just, there's things that at any given time, you, if you're a pastor, like, you know, is important, but you have to leave those things like on the chopping room floor yeah. Nick Clason (33:06): Of your sermon. And like you can pull some of those things out. You could even do like a deeper dive from your sermon of something that you did study in your research, but you chose not to include it for time sake or for whatever purpose, but you could just say, Hey, Hey, here's something that I, I researched last week in light of the sermon on acts chapter two and boom, you got a 62nd video explaining that. And those types of things I see on TikTok all day long. Not, not necessarily like spiritually though. I do see some of those, but I just mean like in general, those like quick hitter, 62nd, you know, explainer videos. And I think that this is what, this is what probably most churches probably are gonna lean towards. Um, at least naturally cuz that's we're in the content creation business, you know? Matt Johnson (33:55): Yep. Nick Clason (33:56): So there it is guys. Uh, like I said, I will, um, I will post a link to this article in the show notes, feel free to check it out hybrid ministry.xyz. Um, or however else you, uh, do it, Matt, I have a question for you Matt Johnson (34:12): Ask, go away. Nick Clason (34:13): It's talking about down here later on in this article, best platforms for short form video, it's got TikTok number one, Instagram reels, number two. YouTube shorts. Number three. Yeah. Do, are we messing with YouTube shorts these days? Matt Johnson (34:28): Um, uh, uh, depends on the day. You know, YouTube is actually out is weighing long form content higher again, so, okay. Um, if you can create some YouTube shorts, that's great. If someone gets stuck in the YouTube shorts, that's usually a good thing. The big thing about shorts is, uh, they need to create a shorts app. If they create a shorts app, I think you would probably have more success there. Um, right now it's hidden in the YouTube app. Um, I think it's only a matter of time before they do make a shorts app. Uh, Nick Clason (35:05): So maybe when they do that, it's time to time to make that matter a little more. Matt Johnson (35:09): Yeah. And I'm was gonna say, when it comes to Google, I really don't buy into their stuff quickly cuz the second it doesn't do what they want to do. They just kill it. So , I mean there's a whole website dedicated to like projects killed by Google. You can literally look it up. Um, and I'm telling you like it's literally called killed by google.com and you would just be mind blown by the amount of stuff they test before they kill it. So YouTube shorts is there for now, but I mean, YouTube go was a thing at one point and YouTube originals was a thing. Remember Google Nick Clason (35:44): Plus, Matt Johnson (35:45): Remember Google plus plus. Yeah like there's a lot there. So I would, if shorts does not become its own app, I, I would say it's probably gonna get killed sooner or later. Nick Clason (35:55): There's a lot of stuff on this website, bro. Matt Johnson (35:57): I told you, man. It, well, Nick Clason (35:59): We'll throw it in the notes too. Yeah. Um, Matt Johnson (36:02): It's just a fun website. Nick Clason (36:04): Yeah, it is fun. And then there's uh, there's some other apps that this HubSpot article is referencing like some trier hippo Magisto lately.ai and whiskey. Are any of those worth churches investing any their time in at this point, would you say Matt Johnson (36:22): It depends on your margin? So like trier is very song based, even more song based for, um, the TikTok. So if you have like a awesome worship band and you're not in trier, like maybe you should look into it. Um, and then the other stuff that's on you like hippo, Mao, um, lately a lot of this stuff is more of, uh, how to leverage short form content more rather than a platform that you would host short form content on. So like HIPAA video might be a good resource for you to look into if you wanna really maximize your like CTAs and your, um, auto like automation for video and conversion and stuff. So, um, but for hosting stuff like YouTube reels and TikTok, uh, TikTok are gonna be number one. And the, like I said, you look into it, but it's just like be real that's out right now. There's these, these smaller social platforms that are like captivating their audiences, but I nothing has blown up like TikTok since literally Instagram and Instagram took a long time to blow up. I don't think people remember that. Nick Clason (37:30): Yeah. Yeah. All right. Sweet. Well, I just saw those and I was like, Hey, these are like literally trier hippo Magista lately in w never even heard of any of those. So this is where Matt Johnson (37:41): This is. They're more of a tool podcast. Nick Clason (37:43): Tell us these things. So, Matt Johnson (37:45): Yep, absolutely. Nick Clason (37:46): All right, man. Well that is it for today. Appreciate, appreciate your talking. Appreciate you watching me go from room to room, room, room to room to find spot to record, uh, but excited to continue to be on this journey with y'all feel free to subscribe. Give us a rating. We'd love to hear from you at hybridministry.xyz and we'll talk soon.
In this episode, Nick and Matt discuss what content marketing is. Should churches even be using marketing? Why is content marketing so effective? And what are some examples of blogs, pillar pages, white paper, ebooks and podcasts to help your church reach Gen Z and Millennials in a Digital and Hybrid form of ministry? Follow us on Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or check us out online - http://www.hybridministry.xyz LINKS EBOOK EXAMPLE https://21023629.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21023629/101%20Things%20to%20do%20this%20Summer.pdf?utmmedium=email&hsmi=220409116&hsenc=p2ANqtz--GvYYsBn799IT7tZQ07OLdeLeNshWl6rRnS5f0wNelRUcxnmSP6GBZ4rNYmusr63ghavYI8SAUk3drn2tD3kuUF929s7xlw622qVQVuVCXDVsrlvE&utmcontent=220409116&utmsource=hsautomation WHITE PAPER https://www.dare2share.org/gospel-advancing/value1-prayer MICHAEL HYATT'S BLOG https://fullfocus.co/blog/ CROSSROADS PODCAST NETWORK https://www.crossroads.net/media/podcasts/ PILLAR PAGE EXAMPLE https://www.typeform.com/blog/guides/brand-awareness/ TIMECODES 00:00-02:42 Intro and Beard Discussion 02:42-05:33 Should churches do marketing? 05:33-11:02 Why Content Marketing is so effective 11:02-16:53 How do develop a church ebook 16:53-23:49 How to use White Paper for churches 23:49-27:45 Blogging for churches 27:45-33:29 Podcasting for churches 33:29-34:24 Pillar Pages for Churches 34:24-37:00 How to convince your boss 37:00-38:37 How to get started on each item 38:37-40:48 Which one do I start with? 40:48-44:36 What are the best services to use to capture this stuff? 44:36-45:38 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Well, hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. In today's episode, we are going to be talking about marketing in the church. And what exactly is content marketing? I'm your host, Nick Clason sitting in alongside my amazing friend. The bearded wonder himself, Matt Johnson, how you doing this morning? And how's your beard. Matt Johnson (00:27): Beard is good. Trimmed up, you know, a little bit cleaner, you know, we're, we're in summertime. So, you know, I like to keep a little shorter and, Nick Clason (00:34): Uh, is that like shots fired at me? Is that shots fired at my no, Matt Johnson (00:37): No shots fired at you it off. Cause when the winter comes around, I stopped trim it. So Nick Clason (00:45): Yeah. It's nice. Well, I mean, I just announced everybody that I'm gonna be moving to Texas, so I don't even know if I'm gonna see winter anymore. Matt Johnson (00:54): Probably not. No. I think, uh, your winters are in the past now, so which is really good for you. Nick Clason (01:00): Yeah. And my wife told me my Beard's looking kind of boxy, so I'm not sure what to do with that. I feel like that's code code for trim it. Matt Johnson (01:08): code for shape it a little bit. Nick Clason (01:11): Yeah. Come on, get rid of the box there. So yeah. Anyway, I interrupted you. You said you're doing good. Matt Johnson (01:17): Yeah, I'm doing good. How are you doing Nick Clason (01:19): Great, man. Great. I'm a little sleepy cuz you know it's it's Thursday. We had church last night. So of course I was out late, but oh as well. Um, some do idiot decided to plan an event with silly string. And then I watched as the facilities team looked glaringly and begrudgingly on at the mess that was being made on the patio. And I thought to myself, dang it. Now I probably should clean this up. So that took a minute Matt Johnson (01:51): Oh, let me get a little silly string, Nick Clason (01:54): Um, silly string and then Matt Johnson (01:55): We're very messy Nick Clason (01:57): And then we're getting ready to do a, a, a baptism out on the patio. So there's a big tub out there. And of course all the kids are like getting water from it and throwing it on each other. So whoever thought let's get this set up on a Wednesday before the event, they, they obviously forgot that we were gonna be out there. So Matt Johnson (02:15): Yeah, like let's get ahead of it. Be prepared. Oh actually we made a bigger mess and we had to refill it up. Nick Clason (02:22): Exactly. And they're initially stringing it now. So Matt Johnson (02:25): well, people are getting baptized Sunday. You know, you might find some silly string. Nick Clason (02:31): You might come out with some, uh, lines of pink on you. It's okay. Don't worry. It's not no need that's it's just silly string. Matt Johnson (02:38): No need to concern yourself. Nick Clason (02:40): So, uh, Matt, one of the things I think is an interesting conversation and I'd like to talk about it first here is like, is marketing a thing that churches should even be focused on? Cause a lot of what we're talking about, uh, in, in all these episodes is marketing is kind, kind of like brand recognition, getting yourself out there and different tips and strategies for that. And so I think there may just be a natural aversion to the word marketing, cuz it sounds very secular. It sounds very like businessy. Um, so what, what would be your response to someone who is like marketing in the church? Like, you know, you should be flipping tables for that. Matt Johnson (03:19): absolutely. No, I, I used to be under that ideas. Like why would you ever market Jesus? Like that's not something that needs to be marketed mm-hmm and I think something that you should think about when we think about marketing is not your traditional sense of marketing, of like, Hey, there's a billboard for us. We have commercials. We have radio ads or even like Facebook or TikTok ads. Um, that's not what I'm talking. That's not the primary focus of market anymore. Primary focus marketing is, uh, really just awareness and something. I always go, Seth, always you're marketing, trying to change world with your marketing, you're failing as a marketer. Um, so when you put that in a context, your marketing mind should shift cuz I mean we're working in the church and you should be trying to change the world. So this is definitely something that we should be, you know, evangelizing essentially. Matt Johnson (04:11): And it's I'm so what, how a good way to put this in your mind is like, Hey, how do we do a, you know, have an evangelistic mindset for our church in the modern era. And uh, I always just think back to, you know, the pastorals they've marketed Christianity in a totally different way. So it's always been quote marketed, but you just gotta think that brand awareness, bringing awareness to what you're trying to do and how you're trying to help the community and that stuff not, Hey, come by Jesus. Cause if, and if that's what you're at, like you're totally missing the entire point of everything we've talked about. Nick Clason (04:46): Yeah. I think about Paul says, uh, I become all things to all people and I think that he would use the digital means that are available to him today, you know, to, to help get the message of Jesus spread. You know, I think one of the, I dunno, probably issues or maybe concerns would just be that there seems to be an oversaturation maybe of messaging out there. And so how can, uh, how can the church stand apart? Like what sets them, you know, in obviously we're, we're coming from a different position, but how do we do it? Well, because if we, I feel like if we don't do it well, we're just gonna get lost in a sea of kinda white noise that's out there. Matt Johnson (05:31): Yep, exactly. Nick Clason (05:33): So, uh, one of the, one of the things you told me the other day was, uh, this idea about content marketing. So first of all, mm-hmm what is content marketing? Matt Johnson (05:45): Yeah. So content marketing is this idea that you're using content that you're creating to market. So it's like, again, we're not talking about, you know, TikTok ads, Facebook ads, Instagram ads, we're not talking about, um, popup ads or uh, um, ads before a YouTube video. We're actually talking about giving people in our churches and that we want to come to our church content, that markets who we are. Um, so we'll get into all the nitty gritty details of what that looks like in a little bit, but uh, it's just providing a value, um, more than just a Hey here's who we are. Nick Clason (06:25): Yeah. Or here's service times, right? Or here's, here's our address. You should come to our service. Like it's, it's providing, I like that we're providing value, you know, giving them something that they can, that that's useful to them valuable to them. And Matt, do you think, um, before we get to nitty gritty, do you think that this type of thing, if you're gonna try and provide quote unquote value, can it be done on multiple levels? Can you provide value, um, and information content to people that are already disciples inside your church and people not inside your church? Or do you feel like you need to choose one or the other? Like what would you say to that? Matt Johnson (07:07): No, I would say it could be both very easily. Um, as you start, you know, deciding what the content you wanna do and what the purpose of your content is, you can really start to figure out what that value is. You add, um, content marketing can virtual your people that already disciples, and then it can also bring in you new people can be an evangelism tool at Casa breed, new discipleship tool. You have so many avenues that can go with content marketing, um, and all that stuff that we had talked about, like services and, uh, we, this, Nick Clason (07:54): No, I was say, yeah, if you add value, then there's gonna be a more natural trust that's built and then an easier step into coming to service or coming to that event because you've already, you've already built a bridge and a relationship to those people. Matt Johnson (08:10): Exactly. Yep. Nick Clason (08:12): So I think, you know, so then if it can be done for both, then this doesn't feel like such a, such a foreign idea to the job description of most local church pastors. I think what it does maybe feel like though is, uh, like a lot of extra work, um, at least, you know, for me, you know, not cuz I'm not really sure what we're talking about with the, when it pertains to content marketing. So let's dive into that, but first tell, tell everyone the stat you told me the other day about why content marketing is so effective. Matt Johnson (08:47): Yeah. Content marketing is the most effective form of marketing that, you know, us marketing experts have identified right now. And I can see this, this personally and all the stuff that we've been testing through my career, but, uh, it's 64% more effective than traditional marketing. It's three times cheaper. So when you hear that, you go, okay, I'm gonna get better results and spend way less money, which is always news, good news to the years of anybody that's got a strict budget. So yeah. Uh, if you can really start implementing some of this, uh, content marketing strategy, uh, you're gonna start seeing results and you're gonna be able to grow your torch or church organically. So mm-hmm Nick Clason (09:29): Yeah. And so like, alright, so then let's take all that. So we're not marketing Jesus. We're just creating awareness around our church, which our church is truly speaking. The best message that there is in the entire world, the literal good news that you can have death, or you can have life because your sin has caused you death. And so we want to share that message with people and we want to, uh, go to the ends of the earth. And so we're going to use the digital means that are given to us. We've become all things to all people to get this message out there. And in light of all that it is the most effective form of marketing secular or not. And it is also the cheapest or maybe it's not the cheapest, but it's three times more cheap you said than, than some of the other ones. Nick Clason (10:12): So in light of all that, it bodes really well because all, all it really requires of us. The cost, it really requires of us is just some, some like additional work or some, you know, this sounds so old, but some elbow grease, I don't know if that's a thing people say anymore, but just get down, get down. Yeah. I don't know, whatever. Get in there, make some stuff happen. Um, create some things. And so I think like the way I think about it is there's really like two prongs to it. There's the content and then there's the distribution of it. Right. So let's talk through just some of the actual content first. Um, and then when we get done with that, let's just chat through like different ways that churches can begin to create a distribution model for it, whether that's through setting up ads or websites or whatever the case may be. Sound good. Matt Johnson (11:00): Mm yep. Sounds great. Nick Clason (11:02): All right. So, uh, what the first one I have in mind is an ebook. Can you, I mean, most people know an ebook is, but can you give a few ideas or a few examples of what an ebook might look like for a church or how they could use an ebook as a form of content marketing? Matt Johnson (11:18): Absolutely. So I'll give some like real practical examples too, that, uh, I've personally helped create or that we've used. So, uh, one of our most recent one was the summer ebook, which I believe we probably talked about in a performer. Uh, and we're about to launch our fall ebook and, uh, what these eBooks are designed to is for our next gen ministry at, uh, our current church. And that is really to help, you know, promote everything you can do with your kids, um, in the summer or the fall at the end of the ebook we're promoting event. So for the summer one, it was to really promote, uh, summer jam, which is our version of vacation Bible school. And then now for the follow you book, we're gonna be promoting trunk or treat, which, you know, we all know what trunk or treat is. And it's just a good way to like, Hey, we have this resource for you. Matt Johnson (12:03): That's not all about who we are, but this resource can also bring you to us. Um, another good example is like, uh, you, Nick who's, you know, a youth leader, you could create an ebook for your summer camp. Um, like, uh, mm-hmm, , here's, uh, the summer camp checklist for every student, for every parent. Like you can create an ebook about that stuff. Or, um, for small groups you can create ebook about like, Hey, here's everything you need to know about joining a small group or, um, you know, so on and so on and so on. So they're just sit down and think of like, okay, what could I actually fill, you know, like 10 pages of, with some fun stuff and it doesn't have to be like, copy extensive. It can honestly just be a lot of images checklist, but you have a ton of opportunity there. And it's a way to get people to actually give you their email and their phone number mm-hmm and then we can reach out to them. And it's also a good way to promote, Hey, this is what we have going on. Nick Clason (13:00): Yeah. So like, so on a workflow side, the ebook, we curated ideas for families. So all we did was we just sent out emails and texts to people who have young kids and say, what are things you know about? And then we just threw it all together in a big Google doc, and then we organized it. And so like a couple of fun things that we did within that was we did like a park list. So broken down by city or community, we just gave them names of good parks. Another thing we did was we created an ice cream trail, uh, so that families could have a, like a, a goal to try and hit every ice cream shop or whatever over the course of the summer. Um, and that, wasn't a thing that was created. Like we just gathered different ice cream places. And then we created, uh, this quote unquote trail, you know, like, like when I lived in Cincinnati a couple years ago, there was a, an official like donut trail. Nick Clason (13:58): And that, you know, that was a thing that was like actually known and marketed, but like this ice cream trail thing, like we just came up with this. Um, and then other thing we did was we made like a, we made like a scavenger hunt, um, in, in there about like different parks and stuff. So if you figure out like a local park or preserve or whatever, like try and find a caterpillar or try and find a leaf or whatever. And so theoretically you could print that out if you're like a family and you could take that to the preserve with you or to the park, and then you could do your little scavenger hunt thing. And so I think, like to Matt's point, what you're saying is you're like, this is the thing that provides value and it isn't even a promotion of an event or a promotion of our church. Nick Clason (14:37): It's really just a way for us as a, as an organization to help support, um, families, you know, in, in this time to give 'em something to do over the summer. Cause everyone's looking for different things to do, you know, over the summer. And so, so you can do that. Yeah. That's what we did, but you can do that all kinds of different things. So I'm gonna throw the link in there to, uh, our ebook into the show notes in case you wanna check it out. Um, but, and you might get subscribed to our email list as a result of that, but Hey, that'd be cool too. Um, anything else on eBooks, Matt? Matt Johnson (15:11): Um, no, I think that's about all I have on eBooks, honestly. Uh, yeah. Nick Clason (15:17): How Matt Johnson (15:17): Long they use 'em they're really easy to make. Nick Clason (15:20): Let me ask you this. So we, we crafted, we came up with all the content, right? Like here's the list of things and then we organized it and then we handed it to you and you actually, you know, usually you outsource this, but this time you just created it, how long did that take you to create it? And where did you create it? Matt Johnson (15:38): Uh, I created it in Canva cuz I just, uh, wanted to, you know, see what, what we could do with Canva. I'm not, I usually use Adobe and stuff for that kind of, uh, project. Um, honestly probably took about two to three hours to do the whole thing, um, of actual work it's, I mean it took, you know, more time cause there was a lot back and forth and approval processes and all that kinda stuff, but uh, yeah. And then when can have cheap, you can do it for like 12 bucks a month and for the pro version of it and really create something nice, but you can use free version to make a pretty ebook. And if you really wanna get like creative, you do Photoshop and illustrator and um, put all in design. So, Nick Clason (16:17): And last, last I checked, I think Canada has a nonprofit license for churches. So you can look into, into that and reach out about that. And so that's a really great free resource. So, you know, theoretically from cover to cover, you did that in two to three hours. So anyone with even a little bit of design ability should be able to throw that together. Not, not too, it's not too much work once you kind of get everything built together. So, um, Matt Johnson (16:43): Yeah, you can work off a template. Nick Clason (16:45): Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's one of the advantages of Canva. It comes with those things prebuilt in there. So mm-hmm all right. Uh, white pages, um, what, what are those and why are they useful? Matt Johnson (16:58): uh, white pages are honestly one of my favorite things to do in marketing, uh, and a white page is usually just an informational document that, um, can highlight features of like the church, your product, like whatever that looks like to whatever you're trying to market, um, could be your services, uh, and what you can do with like white papers, which we, uh, I did when I was working at dare to share was, uh, we did a white paper for all the gospel advancing values, all a sudden values. So each value had a white paper for it and it was a, you know, a highlighted solution of like what those values looked like. And those were one of our greatest lead generators to get leaders, to become gospel advancing leaders. So, um, find that thing that you were like, okay, we could actually write an informational document about this. Matt Johnson (17:50): So, uh, could that be, maybe you provide daycare at your church, like you're, you should probably do a white paper about why your is a great solution for in the community, just to some there, um, maybe your church, uh, it takes a, you know, um, baby dedication very seriously. So why not do a baby dedication white paper to talk about like the biblical reasons behind that and what the difference between baby dedication and baby baptism is. And, um, especially in our culture, which is, you know, primary Catholic, that's probably something that we should do so people can understand, like we're not, we don't really baptize babies, but we would love to dedicate your baby. And here's the reasons why and stuff like that. So, um, you can really define those solutions. You could honestly do a white paper for all the ministries that you have going on. So we could do a student, uh, white paper. That's all about like what students offers and uh, why, you know, students is a great opportunity. Um, and these can be long documents or they could be, you know, kind an infograph, uh, and I've seen both work really well. And the idea of the white paper is just to have another way to people download and get some more information from you. Nick Clason (19:01): Hmm. So it, it sounds like this is like, like a PDF or something like that, that people can download. And then it, it is that what's the reason why that is a good, uh, searchable or lead generator for people. What makes the fact that it's a PDF? What makes it, um, what makes it so good for marketing, I guess on the back end? Like what makes Google find it? Or, you know, whatever. Matt Johnson (19:31): Yeah. So you're, there's a couple things. So the big thing that's gonna differ white paper from like the ebook or, um, even some of this other stuff we're gonna talk about is a white paper is a lot of information usually, and people are looking for that for like, you know, uh, literally searching for that information they wanted. They're trying to build trust within. You're gonna build a lot of trust if people download your white paper, mm-hmm so the back end of Google, it's gonna wanna like, so that conversion rate's gonna be really high for the people that are searching for that, which Google is gonna like. Um, so it's gonna be a little more, you know, specific to, um, what you're creating the white paper for, but if people are searching for that, they're gonna Mo you know, there's probably like a 60% chance they're actually gonna download it, which is way better than, you know, an ebook you're probably looking at, you know, an 11% chance to download it if you're, you know, on a good day. So, Nick Clason (20:27): So this is something that's like a, a PDF document that you create your positional paper or stance or whatever, maybe with infographics and stuff like that on baby dedication. Why is it good to have all of that information in a downloadable, uh, nice looking PDF style thing, as opposed to all that, like all those keywords and words and verbiage sitting on a website. Matt Johnson (20:52): Great question. So the big reason in my mind is cuz it's a marketing lead for me. It's a lead generator for me, so I can get people to download it. Um, and they're gonna give their info and we know, uh, that because people are gonna wanna download it. If they're searching for it, you're more likely like that conversion rate is gonna be higher on it for those white papers. Uh, you're also, um, we'll get into content cluster and we don't want, you know, uh, or pillar page. Uh, those are gonna be a little bit longer. Honestly, a white paper is usually about 2,500 words and I've seen pillar pages that are 30,000 words. So, you know, OK. It's, uh, it could be very, it's a little bit more digestible, but it's a little bit bigger than the ebook. It's more info. Um, it's just kind of a next step for people. So if you are somebody that loves to write, um, you know, you're a pastor that loves writing their sermons a lot, uh, and you are like, Hey, I've always wanted to write a little book or whatever the eBooks, a great Legion, but I wanna write like in depth about, um, something that's going, some solution that we have at our church for, you know, maybe it's for alcoholism or something. And you guys have great solution for that. You have ed, you might write a big thing about that and get that known. Nick Clason (22:07): Well, I'm even just thinking about, like, we have a, we have like a, um, in person wall, you know, in our building. And one of the things we have a little pamphlet there and it's just called like the guide to student ministry at our church. And I was like that right there with, I feel like the right like amount of like search terms and, and keywords and stuff like that. That would, that would be a great example of what we're talking about here. Mm-hmm again, right? Like when we created it, we were only thinking about in person experiences. So only people that are gonna be in our lobby looking for it in our lobby, as opposed to also creating it and finding a place for it to live and exist on our website so that people can also find it there. It's just it's that switch. Right? It's that flip of a switch of thinking like you, you, more than likely already have something like this because you've created a brochure or pamphlet or something like that. Mm-hmm so then turn that same piece of content into something that can go, um, on a website, like, like you're talking about. Matt Johnson (23:06): Yeah. And, uh, you we've started, I mean, you've probably seen this Nick when we were like staying at church on Sunday, but I don't see a lot of people go to our physical walls without, you know, direction to so, uh, it's not a good awareness piece, you know, I've had plenty of people come on, go what's the student ministry about, I'm like, oh my goodness, we have failed, you know, give them more content to, you know, be able to figure out, you know, and identify these solutions for them. Nick Clason (23:35): Does, does that, uh, dare to share, like, do those websites, do they still exist? Like could we link to them? Matt Johnson (23:41): Uh, they should. Yeah, I can. I'll uh, I'll dig 'em up. We just, we revamped the whole website since we did those. So I'll just have to find where we re put those, so. Nick Clason (23:50): Okay. Yeah. So I'll give you a link to that. Give you a link to what the summer ebook looked like. Uh, the next thing is, um, blogs. Let's talk about blogs. Blogs seem like, um, old news they've been around forever. So are they still useful piece of content marketing? Are they still worth our time? What, what would you say to that? Matt Johnson (24:08): Uh, I'd say blogs are probably the lowest hanging fruit that anyone listens in this podcast could start, you know, um, doing right now. Um, and the reason I say that is cuz they don't need to be long. Uh, if you get a consistent rhythm of blog writing, you're gonna have consistent search. Uh, your SEO's gonna continue to be updated. And also you're gonna have, uh, consistent reason for people to continue to come back to you, which that's the key of a lot we've talked about. We want people to just come back to us and we don't want it to only be on Sunday mornings at church. We want to come on a Wednesday at work when they're on their lunch break and go, Hey, I wanna check out what my church has going on with it. So, um, blogs are honestly one of the easiest things to start implementing right now and the traffic and the potential of a blog is still massive. Matt Johnson (24:58): So a great example of this is Michael Hyatt, um, who, uh, if you guys don't know who Michael I Hyatt is, you know, they grow up full. He, uh, he's a designer, full focus planner. He was an SEO or a CEO at a book publishing company. Uh, he's a hugely influential person in the marketing world and he started his entire company based off of blog writing, um, by giving like daily tips, um, like, uh, how to balance your day, uh, how to be a good boss, how to be a leader. Um, and he was doing that while I was a CEO. And then, uh, he turned that into an entirely functional company right now and full focus. So, uh, that is a great example of like what a blog can do for you. Uh, and blogs are just, uh, something that everyone can write, honestly, like it's your voice, it's your personality, that's your opinion on it. So, um, and they don't have to be long. Like you can write a, you know, 300, 500 word blog and that's all you need. Nick Clason (25:56): Yeah. Great. So here, like, and Matt correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like most like template website builders are sort of built on like a blog style, uh, idea, like it's built with the idea of like posts. So it's pretty easy for most church websites to create some sort of blog type thing where you just throw quick hitters of like your thoughts. Matt Johnson (26:19): Exactly. And you, there's probably not a lot. You need to change. You just gotta look at some formatting stuff. Uh, like I said, it's gonna be a huge win for you. If you can actually start getting your blog going and be consistent, that's the one thing you will say, don't start a blog if you're not gonna be consistent and you're not gonna write it. So if you're gonna commit to a blog, say I'm gonna have a blog up every day. Like every Tuesday at 10:00 AM, make sure it's up every Tuesday at 10:00 AM, cuz that's gonna help also, uh, unlike the algorithm side of things. So Nick Clason (26:50): What's a good, what would be a good recommended rhythm? Would you say for someone who's gonna blog? How often, how frequent all that stuff? How long? Matt Johnson (26:58): Yeah, so I would start once a week, you know, get your, your toes wet, your fingers warmed up as you're typing for. Um, uh, and I would pick a day that you might see that might be the best day for traffic, for you at your, uh, at your church. So like for us, we have found Thursdays at, you know, 9:00 AM to be the best time to post anything. So, uh, that's when we would post, uh, you know, a new blog or whatever. Um, and then, uh, as you like start building your blog up or if you're like, Hey, this is something that I could definitely add more to start doing two a week or three a week. Um, you know, Michael Hyatt was doing one every day, which that's pretty, that's pretty intense. So I mean, if you have the time to do that and you wanna do that and you have the drive to do that, go for it, but I would just start with one at day right now and then build on there. Nick Clason (27:46): All right. Great. So let's talk a little bit then Matt, about podcasts. Um, are, I feel like podcasts similar to blogs have been around forever? Are they still like a useful marketing tool? Matt Johnson (27:59): Oh, absolutely. Yeah. If people are, wanna find a topic, um, they're gonna, um, traditionally look for podcasts now, especially the younger demographic. Nick Clason (28:09): Yeah. What was like, what was the, what was the stat hubs stat came? Hub spot came out with a couple of weeks ago or months ago about, uh, the average, average American or average person listening to podcasts. Matt Johnson (28:22): Yeah. So podcast listeners. So those are people that send a podcast, 84% of them listen to eight hours or more podcast a week. You have 78% of Americans are aware of podcasts and almost 60% of people in America listen to podcasts. So, um, a lot of people are, I mean, podcasts are continually to grow. Um, I mean younger people, it's definitely something that they do to pass the time now, especially on commutes and walking and, um, runs and working out and all that kinda stuff. And then, uh, you, you know, older people, old, older generations are starting to, you know, jump on the podcast bandwagon. So Nick Clason (29:01): Yeah. So do you think that it's just recording your sermon, throwing it in on a podcast? Is that what you're recommending here? Matt Johnson (29:09): Uh, I mean that, that's where you can start, honestly. I mean, that's not gonna give you, you know, the traditional traction of a podcast, uh, just because, you know, you're only gonna get people that wanna listen to your sermon at that point. They're not gonna necessarily be searching for like that topic for help. So, so like creating a parenting podcast or like an interview type podcast where people are like, Hey, I'm kinda looking for this kinda thing, but it is a good place to start and you already have the content. Nick Clason (29:37): Yeah. Yeah. Um, crossroads in Cincinnati, uh, they have a like almost entire podcast network. Um, and I was I'll link to it in the show notes, but I was scrolling through it the other day. And so like, their pastor's name is Brian to, so they have a podcast called the aggressive life with Brian to then they have one called freed up it's about money. Then they have one called you can do this and it's a parenting podcast. And then they have one called, um, IKR question mark. It says real conversations with real women. One called I love Cincinnati, one called too long. Didn't read. And that's like a cliff notes version of like the Bible one called man skills, one called spirit stories. Um, so yeah, like they have what, whatever that is like seven, eight, something like that podcast summer, obviously. Right. I love Cincinnati. Nick Clason (30:32): That's very like regional to them. And so it's just a podcast about yeah. Cincinnati and showcasing the best things about there. And, um, he, he does interviews with interesting people from Cincinnati and then they got one on like just the Bible, like, Hey, maybe the Bible, isn't something that's a regular rhythm or discipline to your life, but here's a quick hitter of, of different books, different chapters, you know, stuff like that. Um, so I, I I'll link to that in the show notes, but I love their approach to that. Cuz I think like you said, a lot of people are just starting with just the sermon. Um, and obviously crossroads is a big church, so they have a lot of resources to make some of these things happen, but you can begin to start thinking and looking and seeing ways that you can create other topics or other podcasts that might be interesting. And it's honestly, man, yeah. This is like episode what, seven or eight for us like this isn't been that hard. Like it's actually really fun. no. And Matt Johnson (31:27): So fun. It's easy and it's yeah. Nick Clason (31:30): Yeah. You're just having a conversa conversation. We're just recording a conversation, you know, between you and me. And so if you can get two people that don't sound awkward on a microphone, like which is in a church is probably pretty easy because you get people that stand up talking to microphones all the time. So that that's not that that, you know, far off of a skillset of what they probably already have within their repertoire to do exactly. So. Yeah. Yep. Um, and then out of that, uh, one of the things that, uh, I think I've heard you recommend is transcripting those so that you can get all the words onto a website Matt Johnson (32:09): Mm-hmm yep, absolutely. Uh, highly recommend doing transcripts, uh, cause everything we've talked about over the last half hour or so is all, you know, searchable terms. So, and you can do, there's plenty of transcripting services out there that are fairly, very cheap to, you know, that you could just upload your MP3 two and they'll transcribe it for you. Nick Clason (32:31): Yeah. I mean basically every time we do this, it's anywhere from 30 to 40 minutes and a AI subscription service through rev.com, um, will basically give me this transcript for anywhere from eight to $10. And so that's not super expensive. You, you put that along with the link to the podcast, whether you're using a hosting service or you're hosting it directly on your own website, um, and boom, there you go. You got all the words from it and you know, sometimes they messed stuff up. Like they spell my last name wrong every time. Yeah. But that's the catch go change it. Solos deal. Well, no, they put a Y in it when I say Clason it's there's no, Y a Y so Matt Johnson (33:13): Whatever to call you, it says calling Nate Clauson. Nick Clason (33:17): Cause you know how everyone says the word Jason and Mason, right? Like that's, that's how you're supposed to say those words too, obviously. Sorry. Matt Johnson (33:26):
Nick Clason (33:28): All right. Uh, pillar pages. What are those? We talked about those a little bit last time. So if you, if you didn't listen to the last episode, go back and listen. We went pretty, pretty nerdy and pretty in depth on those. But for those that weren't here, give a quick, give a quick hitter of what those are and the purpose of them, Matt Johnson (33:45): Uh, pillar page is a page specifically designed to help with SEO. Um, so search engine optimizations, and it's a large page also known as a content cluster of lots and lots of copy and information about something that's searchable. So good example of this is that we, uh, we're working on a pillar page right now at our church called, uh, the everything you need to know about Christian Small groups. And we identified those search terms. And now we're gonna just write a bunch of content all about that. So, um, and that's gonna be, you know, a pillar page to help drive traffic to our find your people stuff. Nick Clason (34:24): So let's pretend that you are marketing genius. You are sitting here or you're at least marketing interested. You're hearing this. You're like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But you are like multiple steps away from decision making. You are not the senior leader in your church and you go to your senior pastor and you experience some form of opposition. How would you Matt advise that person to enter into said conversation about one of these things? Matt Johnson (34:58): Just any of them? Nick Clason (35:00): Well, yeah, let let's hit Matt Johnson (35:02): Pillar Nick Clason (35:03): Pages. Let's hit it from a no from, from all of 'em. All of 'em. Yeah. Let's hit it from a high level. So you're, you're not the, you're not the decision maker, but you want to, how do you go about convincing your senior leadership that content marketing is worth doing? Matt Johnson (35:19): Yeah. Uh, I would go to your senior leadership with just a lot of this information we talked about. So, you know, a big way I started pitching a lot of the stuff, you know, at a current church is a lot of the stats that, you know, we're seeing, um, in the marketing world. So, uh, we know how effective content marketing is and how it can actually, you know, nurture our, uh, congregation. I, um, for your church, it could be the blog. It could be the podcast. Um, really depends. So, uh, I would go in with that in mind, go in, um, with change management in mind. So just, you know, go in and, uh, talk about, uh, what you're seeing, what the goals are and why you can do it and how you're gonna be able to do it, uh, is my best advice for all that it is gonna, can be kinda challenging, especially if you have, uh, older church and older, uh, executives on your team to kinda pitch some of this stuff. Matt Johnson (36:25): Um, um, especially some of the stuff that, you know, they might not see instant gratification from. So like a podcast you're not gonna see instant numbers from, it's something that you put time, money and effort into. That's gonna take, you know, um, a while to actually build your community up. But once it's built, it's usually pretty solid. And people typically once they're, you know, in the world of a podcast or whatever they can, uh, um, they stick around. So that's just the kinda stuff that you need to come in, ready to answer. So pick something that, you know, you can succeed at that, uh, can give you some fairly quick wins. Um, and then, uh, just be able to talk about that with that change management in mind. Nick Clason (37:00): So let's, let's, uh, keep, let's do this super quick, but let's pretend that you, uh, got approval to do one of these things. And in one month, what would be a win? I wanna just go through each of these. I want you to just lay out what you think a win might look like. So what would be a win if in one month you launched an ebook, what is a, a measurable win, something that you can point to your, your boss about like, Hey, look at this, this is what we saw. This was a win because blank happened. Matt Johnson (37:31): How many new people downloaded your ebook Nick Clason (37:34): And Matt Johnson (37:34): Depending on the size of your church, that number is gonna vary. Nick Clason (37:37): Sure, sure. Sure. What about white page? Same thing. Matt Johnson (37:41): Uh, white page. Yeah. White papers, probably pages. I would say the same thing is, uh, probably how many new people actually downloaded it. Nick Clason (37:49): Okay. How about a blog, Matt Johnson (37:52): A blog? I would just say how many, uh, people have read your blogs so you can actually get those stats, you know, you don't want people skimming it, um, not, or just bouncing away from it. So like actually having that bounce rate low and that read rate high on it. Nick Clason (38:06): OK. Podcast, Matt Johnson (38:09): Uh, podcast, it shows, uh, how many people are listening to it and these don't need to be new people. Like I said, a podcast is really gonna start with your and then grow Nick Clason (38:18): And then pillar page, Matt Johnson (38:21): Uh, pillar page is going just be how many people clicked on the page that's SEO related. So the bounce rate could be really high, but if you get someone stuck on for also biggest of that in mind. Nick Clason (38:35): Yeah. Okay, great. Um, alright. So you're a small church. You don't have anything of any one of these things and we just hired you to be our marketing consultant. What would be your number one project that you'd say, Hey, do this to get started, Matt Johnson (38:53): Look at this, the stats and who your congregation is and who your target is. But, um, most 90% of the time, I would say blog or podcast, just because it doesn't take a lot of extra effort on your end, um, podcast. You're gonna have to do a little bit editing, of course. Um, and the blog, you know, you're gonna have to set that up and, but the time commitment's a little bit less than some of these other things. And ebook is a quick way to get, you know, huge, uh, like to not get huge numbers, but to start seeing some of the new numbers come in a white paper, you'll have better, stronger leads. And then, uh, you know, a pillar page is a massive project. I wanna reiterate that there're a lot of work, so, um, but they won't give you the most traffic to your website. Nick Clason (39:33): Well, and I think like, if you, if we're thinking about this from like an in person ministry strategy, like everything you do for in person requires a lot of work. Like I'll just say, as a youth pastor, I have to build an entire schedule for an entire semester. I have to recruit in, uh, secure several different like locations, host homes, small group leaders, get them screened, um, create like a theme for every week and teaching and content and all these different things. Like there's a lot of work to be done. And so mm-hmm, um, like just because what we're talking about here in, in like digital form is a lot of work. It doesn't mean it's, it's not worth it, or you should only take the easy way out. It just means that you also have to set up all the infrastructure and framework to make it work too. And once you do, mm-hmm, , it's gonna be worth your while, but you have to have someone who cares about it and keep it going. Just like you have someone who cares about your student ministry, just like you have someone who cares about your women's ministry, keeping those things up and running and keeping them organized and brought together and the framework built and all the same types of things that we're talking about here. Like, it is a lot of work, but it's also worth it. Matt Johnson (40:47): Mm-hmm exactly. Yep. Nick Clason (40:49): So, so last thing, Matt speaking around this idea of organization, like all these things are a great idea, but how like, like, especially like eBooks white pages, like you're trying to capture emails. And so what is the best way to get your, get the word out there with these things? Um, is there like, cuz you, you know, you wanna do some sort of like email marketing type of thing and your church may have that may not mm-hmm but so you're gonna want to grab people's names, grab people's emails. Um, you're gonna need websites. Like what is the best distribution method? Is it advertising E like talk through it, just like that entire process from, um, getting it out there on Google, getting it, getting it out there on Facebook for ads, getting people to click on your thing, getting people to put their name in, um, where's all that stuff go, how's it how's doing. How do you keep it, keep all these things, uh, all these parts of the machine moving and working together. What's the best way to do that. Matt Johnson (41:50): Yeah. We could do a whole episode about advertising, probably a couple episodes, honestly, cause it's such a beast. Um, and distribution in general, but I would say like to get you started, I'm just gonna give you a soft answer since we've already given you so much info in this one is social media. So just do what organically on social, figure out what your delivery method is. So if you wanna, you know, do MailChimp, I don't know what your church has in place right now. So if it's a that you have, or, um, maybe you're doing a hub or you have rock RMS, whatever that you're capturing people already. So you have some way that you're capturing emails already. There's probably a form option that connects to that, that you can deliver PDFs for. Um, I would say probably nine times outta 10. That's probably true. So, um, Nick Clason (42:42): Well in most of those, most of those, whether, yeah, most of those, whether you pay for them or not, um, you know, cuz there might be churches here that don't, that don't have those things built yet, you know? So you gotta, you gotta land something as a distribution. So figure that out. There are some free ones, but it they're all gonna be limited until you start paying for 'em. And so if you're not already paying for one, you can go find a free one, but it, it may take some time to find one that works for free because certain features like automatic, like opt-ins with automatic email triggers, like that often costs a little bit of money, you know? So you just have to be yeah. Kinda aware going into that. Matt Johnson (43:23): Yep. Oh absolutely. And, and that's, and then just post that on social to start out and get people to share that organically. Um, especially if you, like, I don't have any money for advertising. Don't worry about advertising right now. So start with some organic, um, ways to do that and build up your social presence, which will help you when you get to the advertising stage and you might have budget. Nick Clason (43:47): Hmm. Yeah. And you can, I mean, think about it. You you're in an organization, no matter like, even if you're under a hundred people like that, you have uh, 50, 75, whatever raving fans about you. So ask for their help to get the word out because how many times Matt do you and I like make a decision based off of a word of mouth recommendation, more than Yelp mm-hmm more than the stars on Google. Like if you tell me about a good restaurant, like I'm gonna trust you way more than a restaurant with 505 star reviews. Like I just am. Yep. Cause it that's just, that's just how our brains work for one reason or another. Like we don't all the other people that we don't know don't matter as much to us. Um, but, but you tell me about a good restaurant. I'm like, yeah, I'll try it, you know? Matt Johnson (44:34): Yep, exactly. Yeah. So keep that in mind. Nick Clason (44:37): Yep. For sure. All right. Any listen, tons of stuff here. Um, we'll try to link all the different examples that we put in there, uh, in the show notes so that you can see, cuz I don't know about you, but I'm visual. So we're talking about eBooks. I wanna show you an example. We're talking about white pages. I wanna show you an example. Um, but any, any other like last parting thoughts around this stuff, Matt, that you have before we, before we sign off? Matt Johnson (45:02): Um, no. I mean pick one of these and go, try to, you know, start brainstorming some ideas to get it done. So Nick Clason (45:10): Love it. All right guys. Good luck. Let us know how it's going. We'd love to hear from you@hybridministryontwitterhybridministry.xyz is the website and uh, we'd love for you to subscribe to this podcast. Give it a rating, give it a review. And if you found this helpful man, please share it with a friend. Uh, same thing we just said, let people know you found this helpful. So until next time we'll talk to you later. Bye guys.
In today's episode, Nick and Matt chat through Barna's Hybrid Ministry ebook, they discuss the ins and outs of pillar pages, and how that could be used for your church to reach Millennials and Gen Z attenders, as well as inspect some of the fascinating church attendance trends founds in the Barna Study! SHOW NOTES BARNA E-BOOK BEING REFERENCED https://shop.barna.com/products/6-questions-about-the-future-of-the-hybrid-church-experience PILLAR PAGE EXAMPLE https://www.typeform.com/blog/guides/brand-awareness/ CROSSROADS ONLINE PLATFORM https://www.crossroads.net/watch/ //BARNA EBOOK FINDINGS 51% of All US adults did not watch an online church service during COVID 18% of Practicing Christians did not 67% of churched adults now have an online option when their church didn’t have one before 90% primarily engaged with the same church they were committed to before COVID 78% of church dropouts are waiting until services go back to normal before they return Churched Adults (36%) and Home with kids under 18 (41%) struggle to focus during online church //DO YOU USE THE INTERNET FOR FAITH PURPOSES? Practicing Christians - 66% Churched Adults - 56% Dropouts - 36% Churched Gen Z - 67% Churched Millennials 64% Churched Gen X 58% Churched Boomers 42% //AFTER COVID WILL CHURCH GATHERINGS FIT YOUR LIFE? Churched Gen Z 37% say both 13% say primarily digital 41% say physical 40% say both 13% say primarily digital 42% say primarily physical TIMECODES 00:00-1:43 - Intro 01:43-02:57 - Findings from Barna Study on Hybrid 02:57-07:30 - 51% of US adults didnt' watch service online during COVID 07:30-12:36 - 67% of churched adults now have an online option 12:36-21:16 - How to set up a pillar page 21:16-23:08 - People stayed committed to their church during COVID 23:08-24:38 - 78% of dropouts are waiting until it's normal to return to church 24:38-28:08 - It's hard to remain focued while watching online 28:08-30:35 - Using the internet for Faith Purposes 30:35-32:46 - Post COVID church attendance survey data 32:46-34:35- Outro TRANSCRIPT Matt Johnson (00:01): For young, I wanna be for forever young. Matt Johnson (00:08): Hey Nick Clason (00:11): Well, good morning. And hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my great friend cohort. Compadre, Matt Johnson. How you doing this morning, Matt? Matt Johnson (00:27): Doing great, man. I'm a little tired, you know, have a newborn in another room. So that's been, uh, exciting, but you know, I'm, uh, worn out but you know, it's beautiful and it's a great thing. So Nick Clason (00:40): You're worn out. So let's talk about digital ministry to just reinvigorate you. Matt Johnson (00:47): I'm in Nick Clason (00:48): Let's, uh, real quick, like what are like the, like, what's the number one, most surprising thing about a newborn for you? Matt Johnson (00:56): Oh man. You know, the most surprising thing is how fulfilled I am. Um, you know, I, the second I've met her, I cried and you know, there's been multiple times I've been holding her and I just start crying. I'm like, this is really weird. Never thought fatherhood would hit me this way. And I think it just goes, you know, I lost my dad a few years ago. So like just layers of like who I am to this little thing that I'm holding, you know, that doesn't even have any idea what's going on in the world. Nick Clason (01:23): yeah. Yeah. That's that's awesome, man. Well, we're super happy for you, but obviously everybody wanted you back because, uh, you know, they missed, they, they missed you. Laughs. And they had just listened to me and that was boring so well, yeah. That's amazing, dude. So super happy for you. Um, today, uh, you know, Barna recently came out with a, an ebook, um, on the, I don't remember the exact title of it, but we'll link it in the show notes, but the findings in this new world of hybrid ministry and I dude, I promise you, right. We had this name before we knew about their ebook. Matt Johnson (02:06): So yes, Nick Clason (02:07): , we're technically not stealing from them, but they did release before us because, uh, we didn't have our crap together enough to get this thing up and off the ground. Matt Johnson (02:16):
Nick Clason (02:17): So , so it looks like we're stealing from them, but we promise we're not. So I was reading through that, uh, just the other day and there were just some statistics that kinda, um, I found interesting and I just wanted to share them and then us just kind of go back and forth and talk through 'em a little bit. So, um, you know, you and I were obviously promoting this idea of digital and physical ministry calling it hybrid. Uh, and so there are a couple of things that I found interesting that feel like maybe they're not, um, leaning towards hybrid or digital ministry being a good strategy. The first one is this 51% of all us adults did not watch an online church service during COVID. Um, and 18% of practicing Christians did not. So COVID hit a practicing Christian, almost 20% of them never even tuned into an online service. So those statistics right there, Matt, is there anything concerning with that? Like as you and I are like pushing for this idea of hybrid ministry, are, are we like, well, yeah, but people don't even really want it. That's, that's kind of how I would read that statistic. Matt Johnson (03:31): Yeah. I, uh, personally I'm not concerned mostly just cuz of the demographic and the ages that this did. I mean, it's not just, you know, millennials that they're pulling out in this stat, it's all adults. So you're gonna have boomers, gen X all in there too. And we know historically that they don't want to really tune in online. Um, I will say, I mean, if only 20, if 20% of practicing Christians did not tune in, I mean that means 80% did tune in at some point, which I mean that excites me. Um, cuz that means majority of people are trying to tune in. Um, and I also do, uh, if all us adults and 51% did not attend a church service of like everyone in the us, I, I mean might be the optimist I me, but that, that tells me 49% of people at least, you know, checked out a service at some point. So that's exciting. Uh, yeah. Which, you know, that's kind of correlates with the numbers that we have seen and you know, practicing religion anyway. So, um, I Nick Clason (04:31): Mean you can paint them as negative. Right. But there's also the other side too, which is there, there is positivity in it such depends, I guess how you wanna look at it. Matt Johnson (04:40): Yeah. And I would just say like, don't get discouraged just cuz 20, you know, about 20% of practicing Christians did not because I would say, you know, that's probably the 20% of people that regardless never will. Nick Clason (04:52): Yeah. Well and one of the, I mean, gosh, one of the things we've noticed in our church is that, um, COVID hit and we lost contact with just a lot of people. And so mm-hmm, , that's probably a nationwide phenomenon as well. Um, especially depending on the size of church, you know, you and I obviously work at a pretty large church and so it's, it's harder for us to have contact with every single one, uh, of the people, you know, that, Matt Johnson (05:16): That least, yeah. Something else that I would ask, seeing the number start to cut you off. Nick is no, Nick Clason (05:21): You're good. Matt Johnson (05:22): Um, how were, were these churches that these 20%, 18% did not get practice online? Is that because they weren't communicated well to, um, were the, were things not implemented quick enough for them? So, you know, they were like, you know, they get out their habit habit of I'm gonna go attend church, which I think that could definitely be part of that factor too. I mean, I think in my grandpa's church who, you know, runs a small Methodist church of 20 people and they try to do online and it was him in his kitchen, but you know, his congregation is primarily 60 to 80 years old, so they're not gonna really go on Facebook to watch. Nick Clason (05:58): So yeah. I also think that, um, what you and I are proposing and talking about in the life of this podcast is not an online church service. No like that it be an element to it and it could be an element to it. But I think we're trying to actually create a more dynamic and robust, um, framework for hybrid ministry. Exactly. Because I do exactly that people do like the, the X factor of the church is the fact that we gather together and we create real authentic community. Like, yeah, that's what sets us apart. We're not just a content machine. And so the con the converse of that is that if the church is just a content machine, like if we're not doing it well, or, um, like if we feel like we should have to compete with the world, we may lose out on that, unless we have something that's uniquely different and we do, and that's Jesus and that's community, but so how do we take those things that uniquely set us apart as the church and create something hybrid in that? Nick Clason (07:08): And so while some of these stats may look, you know, cryptic or whatever, for what we're proposing, I would argue that we're saying, yeah, stream your service, but also, like don't only stream your service and call that your digital presence. There's so much more to a digital presence, just go back and exactly all the things we've, we've talked about in the week, the episodes before, so, okay. Yeah. So then, uh, 67%, um, of church adults now have an online option and when their church didn't have one before. So if anything, what we've seen now is that COVID has ushered the church, you know, into this new, this new phenomenon. I think in my dad's church, not the one he's at now, but the one that he was at when COVID was going on. And, uh, they, they did have a live stream, but dude, like I think that their live stream was someone setting their iPhone up in the balcony. Nick Clason (08:06): And like, that was how they live stream, you know, and they're not super produced even now, but they did, like, they did grab a couple of, you know, elements to, to boost their live stream. And so they now do like lower thirds instead of just like just putting the phone up and hoping that people can see the screen and, um, like stuff like that, you know, to make themselves a little bit more, uh, online savvy. And so I think a lot of churches went through some sort of online iteration. And so now that you have the hardware and the software, and maybe even some of the soft skills, like the know how and how to set this thing up, it now gives the ma you know, the overwhelming majority of churched adults, an online option that they didn't have before. And so yes, stream your service, but also what are different ways, Matt, that you could even see them packaging that, um, that content, that audio, that video to create hybrid, you know, elements throughout their week. Matt Johnson (09:08): Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of different ways you could, um, package it, but what are the best ways right now I'd say is to just get some of that short form content out of that live message. Um, we've talked a lot about that, especially if you're trying to hit the millennial gen Z. Um, there actually was just another study that came out that said the best way to reach that. Um, millennials in general is video that's under 60 seconds long. So, um, if you could figure out a good way to like package, I don't know, 62nd clip with a, um, let's say a 200 word blog or 200 word write up about it. And you could package that as a, Hey, our weekly recap or whatever. Oh yeah. I don't know if you watch baseball at all. Um, but, uh, one of my favorite things about baseball right now is like, if you tune into a game late, especially on specifically on YouTube TV, it gives you a six inning recap of, or like whatever inning you're coming in of all the plays you've missed, which I, uh, that's something I personally love, cuz I can catch up on my baseball games really quickly. Matt Johnson (10:09): But so do that for your sermon. Like do a, Hey here's our sermon recap for the week you give it in content short form. Um, and let me know what's going on with, uh, whatever you got going on in, at your church that week. Uh, that's the probably gonna be the best way to reach millennial and gen Z right now. Nick Clason (10:27): And do you think Matt that like obviously, well, first of all, baseball's boring. If you can catch up on a game in 60 seconds, that's my take on it, but uh, would you suggest that the best way to do that would be through, um, like maybe TikTok or Instagram, but are you saying like throw that on like a mobile friendly, um, website or like a page on your website? That's like maybe a blog page that's dynamic, that's moving, that's being updated. Um, and then that, is that the way to do it, send it out via email, like what would be your distribution? Like that's a great concept. I love that. I don't even know if there's churches really doing that in the iteration that you're explaining, but how would you, uh, suggest a church if you know, we hired you as our marketing manager, how would you suggest a church set that up technically on the backside? Does that make sense? Matt Johnson (11:16): Yeah. No, all of the above are great options. Um, the big thing, so here, well, let's go through all the avenues. So Instagram TikTok, you're gonna have broader reach. So if that's what you're trying to get, go for that email, you're gonna have your best reach. So, uh, Seth goin always talks about how your email list is like your gold. Um, if you get really good people on your email list and they're engaged, like that's your cream of your crop, they're gonna be hot no matter what. So, um, that's a great way to distribute, distribute it, but we also know it can be a challenge to get emails. So, um, if that's not, you know, uh, something that you have built, you don't have a CRM or anything built on the back end or a data management system. I would, okay. Let's all right. What's next website, which this could easily be a pillar page or a cluster topic of like, Hey, you're serving recaps and all that SEO is gonna drive your website. The video content is gonna weigh higher on Google and you can just continue adding stuff to that page of like here's our sermon recap page. And that page will just be built out more and more. And if you can just imagine this page, that scrolls forever, and you have a nice little table of content at the top that you can like jump around and stuff. That's gonna weigh very high on SEO. So, um, so which we are actually seeing currently with Google, Nick Clason (12:36): So let's get super nerdy on a pillar page. So I know what that is. Cuz you told me what it is, but I didn't know what it was till you told me what it was a couple of months ago. So first of all, what is a pillar page? Matt Johnson (12:47): So a pillar page is just a fancy term of like, okay, you've pick a topic. So let's, let's uh, let's talk about small groups. Small groups is always a great, uh, no let's do youth ministry since you're a youth leader. You knows. There we go. Let's now we're talking the finals, let's go into the world that we know. Yeah. so let's say we created a pillar page. That was everything you need to know about, uh, youth ministry in 2022. Um, so we titled that page specifically to be some of those search terms that you're gonna have. And then that pillar page should just be built out of like the who, what, when, where, why, how so, but blogs, curated content. And when I talk about curated content, I think that confuses a lot of people cuz they think, oh, we're just gonna, um, take content that we have or whatever, and just re put it on there. Matt Johnson (13:31): You can do that. But when I'm seeing curated content, I'm talking about other people's content and doing back links for them too. Mm-hmm um, that helps you weigh higher on SEO. Um, and also on this page should be, uh, you know, copy about like, okay, this is everything you need to know about youth ministry. And then on there you could have your video tutorials, you could have, um, white pages ebook. So it's everything that you're gonna release about a topic on one page. So the Google term of it is a content cluster, which it's like a cluster of all the content you have. The pillar page is what the marketing term is that you're gonna hear a lot for it. Um, so if you created, uh, let's say life, church recap page, and on that recap page, it's just everything that life church has done, you know, over the last year. And it's a recap of all their sermons. It's a play by play or whatever. You're gonna weigh higher on SEO when people are searching for like, okay, I'm looking for, how do I deal with anxiety? And if you had a sermon about anxiety, that's gonna weigh higher on that page for you. Nick Clason (14:40): That's great, man. So here's my question then as someone who's a novice, as it comes to like internet, uh, website development and all that stuff, obviously if I pay for developer, I'm gonna gonna get this done. Right. But let's pretend I don't have the money to do that. Or I might just, you know, waiting into this now for the very first time, uh, how, like, can you set up a pillar page? Like, is there like a pillar page for dummies? Is there like a couple of things that they can do through like a basic square space, Wix or WordPress site that will get them at least on the right path? Cuz maybe, you know, someone's listening to this and they're not the senior leader. They don't have the authorization to spend the money, but they believe in it. And so they want to take it on as a pet project, but they need to prove to their upper level leadership or their senior pastor that this is valuable. Can you give someone in that boat, any sort of like tips on how to get some of that stuff up and rolling? Matt Johnson (15:31): Yeah, definitely. You can a hundred percent create a pillar page through, you know, WICS or Squarespace or something. Um, you're just gonna be limited by, uh, the fact that you're in a template, which is okay. So I want to be very clear about that. Like that is okay. Um, it's just gonna be laid out how Squarespace really wants it laid out or Wix wants it laid out. Um, Nick Clason (15:50): As opposed to the custom, like I want it, I want this feature, like you can't ne maybe necessarily accommodate that. You're just stuck in the template. Matt Johnson (15:59): Yeah, exactly. So if you're like, Hey, I don't like how this jumps to there. You're not gonna really be able to finesse around that, but that's okay if you're just getting started through pillar page, cuz really a pillar page is meant to just be a really long content cluster. So just start adding everything you have on there and just lay it out in a logical sense. So don't uh, just throw stuff willy-nilly on it. Like don't go from like what this is about to, this is how you do it then to the why, like you need to start with like, you know, why and the what, and then go to the how, like, just like a story you don't just go straight to the climax of it Nick Clason (16:38): And, and let, let's throw like a couple pillar page examples, you know, in the show notes so that people can go check those out. Yeah, Matt Johnson (16:44): Absolutely. Nick Clason (16:45): See some of them what we're talking about. Yeah. But can you think of off top of your head or do we need to stop recording and then you, you comb your brain for some good pillar page Matt Johnson (16:54): Exams? No, there's a, there's a great pillar page that Typeform has, um, that I would love to, uh, that we can add into, um, the show notes and really the pillar page is all about uh, um, gosh, I can't remember. Give one second think Nick Clason (17:14): this is, uh, Matt Johnson (17:15): Brand awareness that thought it's about yeah, it's it's about brand awareness. Um, they did a whole pillar page about how you can build brand awareness, uh, Typeform data. And that's just been, uh, perfectly laid out. Actually I will even put it in our notes here. So you have it, love it. Um, and you can take a look at it, but this is really what Hillary pages should look like gives you how much, uh, time it would read. Uh, there's usually a table of content at the top and then you can jump through and find what you wanna read about. So, um, Nick Clason (17:49): I will link to that. You guys can see it. Yeah. Matt Johnson (17:51): Pick it out. And it's a perfect example of a pillar page and I need, I wanna reiterate pillar pages are big. So this pillar page is a 44 minute read and it's meant to build SEO. Like that's what it's meant for. So when I, uh, we were building a pillar page at a church now and you guys came to me about it and I was talking through with like the kids director and stuff. I was like, I need, let's Nick Clason (18:10): Be clear. You came up with the idea first. And then I said, we should do this and Matt Johnson (18:15): Then got Nick Clason (18:15): The kids director on board. Matt Johnson (18:17): So yes. Yeah. And I was sitting down with her and she's like, is that enough content? I was like, no, I need about 30,000 words. and I could see her go what? And I was like, okay, maybe not 30,000, but I need about 3000 words. Like I would need a lot of con copy for a pillar page to work. So it's something you constantly build. It's not just something that day one, you have 200 words and it's a blog post. Like a pillar page is not bigger than a blog post. Nick Clason (18:42): Does it take on like, like, okay, cuz I guess the way I'm looking at it, let's pretend it's like Instagram. So Instagram, if you're scrolling, it'll keep loading be beneath you and it'll just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll until like, never like you can probably never really find the bottom of Instagram. Yep. However, like Google, right? Like it's, it's got a billion options, but at when you get to the bottom of your page, it'll be like go to page two. Yeah. Can it go either of those directions or is there one way that is better than the other Matt Johnson (19:14): Scroll scroll? Does that make sense? Scroll. Yeah, I would do scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. Okay. And then if you wanna link to other stuff outside of it, that's totally fine. So like, Hey, go check out this blog. That's fine. And what that gives you is back links and you want back links and we back links. You have the higher websites weighted. It's all this weird stuff on the back. End of Google. Nick Clason (19:34): Yeah. Okay. Great. Love it. No, that's listen, dude. That's the type of stuff that I'm in idiot about, but uh, I know it's good. So I'm trying to learn. Matt Johnson (19:41): Yeah, no I'm here. Nick Clason (19:43): So yeah, pillar pages. Um, we took a little detour there, but that's, we're gonna, that's what this is episode is about. Like how do you build it? What are they, how are they advantageous? And so we can do with our 67% church adults who now have an online option, we can take some of that and use that to add to the pillar page mm-hmm . And so could you make it where it's like one week it's, uh, 62nd sermon recap with like the downloadable notes or something. And instead of them being downloadable, you're saying just type all those words into there, Matt Johnson (20:13): So that a hundred percent Nick Clason (20:14): It can be found. And then could you add to it next week, week two of the love sermon series and the 62nd recap clip and uh, the sermon notes or something like that. Matt Johnson (20:24): Exactly. Yeah. And you would be shocked on, I, I guarantee if someone, you little churches go out there and do that, you'll be weighed high on Google. Um, like do a, how to love, how to be loving as a Christian series. Um, cuz most places are not doing this most churches aren't doing this. And then secondly, uh, if they have done this it's so long ago that like, like you'll start to outweigh Google cuz you were creating new content for it. Nick Clason (20:51): So, uh, would you recommend like someone typing up a sermon recap or would you recommend just copy and pasting the pastor's manuscript notes? Matt Johnson (21:01): Uh, both. So the best solution would be to do a recap, but if you don't have time to do a recap, then just do the sermon notes right now. Like okay. Do the recap as like that's all right. I'm gonna make this better than do the recap. Nick Clason (21:16): Gotcha. Great. All right. So a couple other of stats I wanted to look into from the barn of study, 90% of people primarily engaged with the same church that they were committed to before. COVID and I think that that's a really, uh, hopefully a really helpful stat for us as pastors, because we feel like maybe this idea of all of us going online is they're gonna find something better and then they're gonna switch. Yeah. And they're not gonna wanna go to our church anymore. And our church isn't as good as elevation. They have verdict and they have band that makes music that's on Spotify. But 90% of, of churchgoers, primarily engaged with the same church, which communicates to me that most Christians are comm or are connected or committed right to their local body. They're not, they're not looking for something else. They, they have what they want. They have the community that they're, they're looking for. And so as a church, you putting your content out there, you may be, you know, so I've heard people say like, I don't wanna steal other people from other churches. Like that's that's that wouldn't be the goal. Right? The goal is to help nurture and disciple the people that are already going to your church. Matt Johnson (22:30): Exactly. Your online church should not be like, oh, I'm gonna steal someone. Else's congregation like this isn't some nefarious thing we're doing. It should be, Hey, we're here to nurture our 90% of people that are still engaged with our church, which that tells me, like you were just saying, they bought into your community that you built there. So yeah. Nurture them. give them stuff that makes them keep wanting to come back period. Nick Clason (22:57): Yeah. Well, not even keep wanting to come back, but like learn during the week. Matt Johnson (23:01): Exactly. Yeah. That's what I mean by that. Nick Clason (23:04): Yeah. Yeah. Not just, not just come to our church on Sunday. Yeah. Nick Clason (23:08): Uh, 78% of church dropouts are saying that they're waiting until services go back to normal before they return. I think that would be a lot of pastor's arguments of, well, see, see, we gotta go back to in person, we gotta go back to in person. And I don't, I don't think any of us are arguing that we shouldn't be back in person. Yeah. Uh, but I that's, I, I would be curious about that percentage of that stat. Hum. Those people are using that as an excuse as their church, uh, attendance patterns and disciplines have just completely faded away. Um, and they're just saying, oh yeah, I'm just waiting for it to go back to normal. Realizing that COVID has never really ended being normal. Like we're just still in this weird like world with it. And there is, I don't know if normal will ever come back the way it was. Cuz it's been two and a half freaking years. Matt Johnson (23:56): yeah, no, this is the new normal. And I would just like you were saying, I, my guess is that's probably us excuse for most people now. Um, mm-hmm they got out of the habit, which you know, we've we saw that in our own numbers and that's okay. Like go find the next seeds to sell. Nick Clason (24:13): Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. And again, we're not proposing like, well yeah, you should stream your service. Like if you can, you should. But we're also saying that there's this there's more to just hybrid. It's not just take your Sunday morning experience and post it on Facebook live. Yeah. There we're, we're trying to make this much more dynamic than Matt Johnson (24:33): That. Exactly. Nick Clason (24:35): All right. A couple other quick, quick hitters here. Um, but one thing I found really interesting was 36% of church adults, um, that were at home and people with kids under the age of 18, which is like 41% say that they struggle to focus during online church. And again, I think that's another potentially like negative stat towards, towards digital. So what would you say if someone's like? Yeah, I mean I, online church is great and all, but like I got young kids, like I, I can't, it's hard to pay attention the whole time or it's hard to keep them, you know, from being too rowdy or whatever during church. Matt Johnson (25:11): Yeah. No, the data tells us that if you're just streaming your exact service online, you're gonna have Nick Clason (25:18): It's an hour and 15 minute Matt Johnson (25:20): Service. Yeah. You're gonna have more drop off. Um, just cuz that attention span on an hour and 15 minutes on anything screen related, that's not an action movie drops off. So, um, yeah, if they, they probably will just tune into the sermon and that's okay. Or some just tune into the worship. That's my mom, she loves the worship and then she likes listening to the sermon, um, when she's driving to work the next day, which is, yeah, that's an okay option too, but you're giving them the avenue. So I get that. You're gonna struggle to focus during online. Um, that's gonna happen, especially if you have kids, uh, as you know, and I'm learning so Nick Clason (25:58): Well, I'll tell you what, what we would do during COVID is we would watch like older people church upstairs, and then we would send our kids to the basement to watch, uh, like their kid service. Well, their kid service was over in like 12 minutes Matt Johnson (26:13):
Nick Clason (26:14): And so they come up at the end of worship. Yeah. And we're like, well, well, Hey, like go, Hey, let's watch, let's watch last week's again. And we, it was really hard, man. It was really hard. So it was hard to, it was hard to simulate church. Yep. Um, because it wasn't, I don't think it's meant to be that per se. No it's. And so I would, I would, as a, as a dad of kids under the age of five, I would agree with that stat wholeheartedly. Yep. Honestly, Easter 20, 20 Amanda and I watched church at like 10:30 PM when the kids are in bed. Matt Johnson (26:49): Yeah. Nick Clason (26:49): Like, because we are like, that's when we can in this, when we're unencumbered by them. Yeah. You know, Matt Johnson (26:54): So, and I think what we're landing on is like, it's okay to have these different avenues to consume the media. And also if you're like, Hey, I wanna, I wanna make our church service more, uh, more engaging for these people. Like then go solve that problem. Like go more power to you. Yeah, Nick Clason (27:15): Yeah, yeah, exactly. But to just overlay what you're doing in person on top of online, like that's, I don't know. I mean, dare I say it's a little lazy. Yeah. Like, and, and if you don't have the manpower for it, I get it. So we're not proposing that you reinvent the wheel, like crossroads in Cincinnati has a completely like custom hybrid online experience. Yep. And that's amazing. Right. I'll link I'll link theirs in the show notes too. I got somebody thinks to link in the show notes, but um, like the like yeah. So that's amazing, but they have the main power to do it. And you're probably again sitting here thinking like I barely have the main power to like do all the things I need to do. Um, and so we're not proposing that we're saying think, think about this as a side of the box, offer church streaming adjacent options. Not just only church streaming options. Exactly. Nick Clason (28:06): So, yeah. All right. A couple other real quick things. Um, this was interesting to me, I'll throw all these stats and stuff in the show notes, but so do you use the internet for faith purposes? So I'm just gonna read 'em and we'll kind of digest it. Practicing Christians set 66% of practicing. Christians said that they use the internet for faith purposes. 56% of church adults said that they use the internet for faith purposes. 36% of dropouts say that they use the internet for faith purposes, church, gen Z 67%, church millennials, 64% church, gen X, 58% church boomers, 42%. So I think a couple things that are interesting, obviously when you start with gen Z, it's the highest and it drops down as it gets to boomers. But one thing I notice is that even the gen Xers and the boomers still say almost 50% say that they use the internet for faith purposes. Mm-hmm . So if the argument is my church is old and this isn't for them, I, that categorically is untrue. Matt Johnson (29:08): Yep. Yeah, no, absolutely. And the only way to get younger is if you do it, so stats. I mean, that's what the stats are saying too. So if you're like, Hey, we wanna get younger, but we don't wanna, you know, kill our older, uh, congregation. Like they're gonna, they're all gonna be okay with it. Nick Clason (29:29): Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, a, a church boomer will read a recap email. Like they, they respond email. My grandma reads email. In fact, my grandma couldn't connect to the internet the other day and was convinced that someone was trying to hack her bank account. And so I had to, I had to turn her wifi off and turn it back on and get her connected. And she thought that I am the number one, it director in the world. Matt Johnson (29:55): my grandpa, my grandpa, all the D coffee. TV's not working. Can you fix me? Like, did you unplug it? You're genius. Nick Clason (30:07): Yeah, but they'll read it. They'll read the emails, man. She, and dude, I was at my grandma's and she's like, can you help me unsubscribe from some emails? And I'm like, sure. So I'm like getting her set up with an UNS subscription service. And I was like, how about JC Penn? She's like, no, I like that one. . How about, how about your green bay Packers newsletter. Now I need to know what's going on. Withs green bay. Packer's newsletter. . How about this now? I, I need that gram. You don't actually wanna be in subscribe Matt Johnson (30:30): For anything Nope. Oh, that's fine. Nick Clason (30:34): All right. A couple another one that was interesting after C will church gatherings fit your life church, gen Z 37% said that both digital and physical would fit their lifestyle. 13% say that primary digital would fit their lifestyle. And 41% say physical will fit their lifestyle. So this is church gen Z. So I think one thing that stood out to me about this statistic, cuz that only 13% said that primarily primarily digital would be, uh, their preference for, uh, attending church post COVID mm-hmm . And so right. We continue to say gen Z, gen Z. And we, we are kind of pegging a lot of this on them and them as the future, but they still want in person, they're not looking for only digital. Exactly. We're looking for hybrid, which is what we're trying to find that, that sticky in between, between the two things. Nick Clason (31:29): Exactly. So, and same with millennials. Millennials are, uh, I think slightly higher, uh, 40% say that both online in person, 13% say primarily digital, which is the same as gen Z and then 42% say primarily physical. So they're right on the same track there as, as gen Zers. But they're saying that, um, basically the both that's hybrid man. Yep. Like that's what we're trying to say. Yep. They wanna come in person, but they also want to have access to it when they can't make it or for whatever reason, they're not able to be at church. They want to consume something online. Yep. So, so that's, that's it any other like kind of lasting thoughts that you had just through some of these statistics, like we'll, we'll link to the Barna, uh, ebook and so you can grab a copy of it yourself, but there are, uh, there's just a, there's a lot of really good and really interesting stuff in there. So any other thing that you are like, did you miss this? You should have highlighted this or just, or parting thoughts based on some of this data? Matt Johnson (32:30): No, I, I mean my biggest parting thought is like the, the data staying that hybrid is an avenue that we need to be exploring. So continue, um, exploring this avenue , I mean, don't, don't get discouraged, the data supports it. Nick Clason (32:45): Yeah. And get, and, and, you know, getting into hybrid, um, and getting into some of those digital platforms. Like it can be, it can be laborious and it can be cumbersome and setting up your account and then setting up your group and then setting up your payments, like all that stuff. Like, and it can get confusing because all those companies are trying to sell you things. Yeah. And they're all the best company and that's at least what they're telling you. And so you gotta, you gotta kind of slug slug through some of those things, like setting up email marketing, you know, uh, things or setting up, you know, CHMS things or just, it it's worth it, you know, but it can get, it can feel overwhelming at times. Yep. So stick with it. It's worth it. Find something that works. There's a lot of, um, free or light versions out there. Nick Clason (33:35): And probably for most of us that that will suffice at least for a while. Yeah. Until it gets to a spot where it needs to be, you know, super, super, uh, hefty as far as the payment is so sweet. Hey, uh, that's it for us on episode five? Um, maybe six. I actually can't really remember because, um, I think this was supposed to be episode five, but then I did one last week by myself. Yep. And so this may actually be episode six. I think it is, but yeah. Glad to have you guys, uh, subscribe, uh, follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Also check out our website hybrid ministry.xyz. Uh, give us a rating. Pull open your purple podcast app search hybrid ministry. We're right there. We're number one. If you search that word and give us a little rating, that'd be awesome. I love it. And until next time see you guys later. Thanks guys. Was Matt Johnson (34:28): That just had some nasty bug on.
In this episode, a solo podcast, Nick discusses his finding and research he has seen on Generation Z. These are the current students in your youth ministry and the soon to be regular attenders in your church as they grow older and older. The way they interact and the ways they think are going to be shaping and forming your church before you know it. So what do they want? And what are they looking for? And how does Hybrid help them in their growth and knowledge of Jesus? TIMECODES 00:00-1:37 Who is Gen Z? 1:37-6:07 Gen Z prefers small groups more than large gatherings 6:07-10:25 Industrial vs. Digital Thinking 10:25-16:24 Busyness is not the problem 16:24-27:14 How to make a ministry model of small groups 27:14-32:25 How to set up a small group for the ultimate win 32:25-37:00 Conclusion and Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:02): Well, hello there everybody. Welcome to episode five of a hybrid ministry podcast, solo pod today. Um, my cohost Matt is, uh, having a baby at the time of this recording. So next time we talk to him, he's gonna, he's gonna be a dad for the first time. So that's exciting. And, uh, we were scheduled to record. He's having a baby. I was like, yo dude, don't, don't worry about, don't worry about this. Don't worry about podcasting. We'll get to, we'll get to another day. And so sure enough, that's where we are. And so I am, uh, doing this on my own today. Uh, excited to have a quick conversation with you. Uh, but because it was just me had to do a little bit of deviation. So in this episode, we're gonna talk about generation Z a little bit more. I've told you in the past that I am a youth pastor and, uh, just something that I've been thinking about and noticing now for quite some time. Nick Clason (01:02): Uh, but this generation, I mean, they are just so different than the generations that have come before us. Uh, even as a millennial myself, I notice so much, uh, variance in who generation Z is what, uh, where some pain points are for, for us as student pastors. Um, and maybe just some opportunities of ways that we can use hybrid ministry to be reaching gen Z. You've heard Matt and I talk about some of the stats from Barna, um, that gen Z prefers it looks for a hybrid model. And so I kinda wanna dig into a little bit more. Um, so there's a, there's a statistic that came to, to me, uh, from, uh, crossroads in Cincinnati. I was at a conference in crossroads, did a study, um, of post COVID generation, Z teenagers under the age of 18. So a lot of the generation Z data that you see is gonna be gen Z students over the age of 18 due to liability reasons and the legality of, you know, pulling data from, uh, from people who have to be old enough. Nick Clason (02:16): And so what they were able to do is they have a data team. So they're able to find a way to, uh, talk to their teenagers and their parents get permission from them. Um, and so all these students have been through COVID, uh, it's the most recent up to date info info that you can find on them and they're teenagers. So they're the, the students that are actually in your church, your student ministry, or not yours, but theirs. Um, and, and it probably matches, you know, they're in the Midwest. And so you may have some different, um, insight Intel, but here's the fact of the matter. Um, it, honestly, this information shocked me, not in the fact of like, when I heard it, I was like, wow, that doesn't track, but more like, oh my gosh, yes, this is exactly what I've been thinking, what I've been feeling. Nick Clason (03:03): So here's the statistic 68% say that they prefer small gatherings over big parties. Uh, if you dig into that, even just a little bit more, uh, 65% of their attendees said that, and 76% of students that were not attending their church or not coming regularly said that they prefer that. So if you're a student ministry that wants to reach students, which odds are, you are that's most, uh, churches, most student ministries, even those that are not there have been overwhelming majority priority on, um, coming to things that are small gatherings over large parties. And I'm, I'm not a hundred percent sure why we would say that. Um, but I have have a feeling, um, that this generation, um, is ex well, I mean, I don't have a feeling. This is empirical. This is evidence. This generation was experiencing some of the highest rates of anxiety that we've ever seen before in the history of the world. Nick Clason (04:11): Um, pre C I heard a statistic that the average teenager was experiencing mental health and anxiety related issues at a higher clip than that of a mental health, um, admitted institutionalized patient from the 1950s. This is pre COVID. This is before the world got locked down. And this is before you were told that if you go near your grandmother, you might kill her. And so that is just an absolutely obviously absolutely terrifying proposition. Uh, so much has changed so much of the world has shifted. And so I think that, you know, I don't know that it's like large parties are a fear factor because of COVID. But I think that just the gosh, the overwhelming, like posture and position of needing to isolate, needing to be alone, I, I have just sensed a gigantic difference from them. Um, kind of coming out of that. And I know a lot of people older, the me, like, you know, gen Z teenagers of what they need, man, they need to interact with each other and relate better. Nick Clason (05:20): And like, yeah, all those things are true for sure. Um, but I think what we need to just remember as, as pastors, as church leaders, is that the next wave of people, um, they want to gather together they want community, but it looks different than it did before. When I was growing up as a millennial youth group was like, just cliche, right? Like, Hey, let's get as many kids here as we can. Whoever brings the most friends, gets an Xbox. And if you guys get 200 friends here, I will swallow a goldfish like that was youth ministry. And I mean, gosh, I've used some of those tactics myself. I shaved my head one time cuz we had a certain number of kids that came. That's a very industrial way of thinking. Matt's mentioned that before. And the industrial way of thinking is just this whole kinda like assembly line idea. Nick Clason (06:19): How many can we get here? How, how much performance, how much quality can we get the digital generation, which is gen Z and those that are coming behind. Most of us, uh, they are valuing access engagement and ultimately community. They wanna know that they are a real person, that they're an individual that they're not just another number. And so, gosh, I know it sounds so cliche. We've all heard it before. We've even probably said it, but students won't care how much we know until they know how much we care. And while this is the, the fact of the matter with our gen Z students, this is also what we're seeing with our church attenders and church members. And so we need to find a way to create community and put a priority on individualism, on small groups, with these statistics, with these facts coming at us and you know, like maybe gathering everyone together in a gigantic room where you swallow a goldfish for entertainment. Nick Clason (07:23): Value is not the win anymore because here's the thing. If we gather everyone in a room and you swallow a goldfish, uh, like how many of those 200 students in that room's story, did you really get to know like, did you really dive in and learn who they are and what's bothering them and the issues that they're facing and the questions that they're asking, because ultimately when we look at the model and method of Jesus, he spent tons of time, like sure, Jesus spoke to 5,000 and he broke the bread. But then he, he spent the majority of the time that we see him throughout the gospels, he spent the majority of that time individually with his disciples. And then he spent even more of it with his 12. And then he invested heavily in the three. And then in John who wrote the gospel of John, he described himself as the disciple that he loved the most. Nick Clason (08:30): And so Jesus even did that where he spent more and more time individually with his people that he's trying. So those disciples, Peter, James, John, those that were closest to him, they knew how much Jesus cared and they were a part of something with him. And then when they belonged with Jesus, it became much easier for them to turn the corner on belief. I mean, what if, what if the model that Jesus laid out is what the church should be trying to accomplish? Because that's ultimately what happened. Jesus gives the great commission right before the Ascension up to heaven and he says, Hey, do, as I've done walk, as I've walked, take what I've done and re uh, apply it to the world around you. What if this model that Jesus laid out thousands of years ago is what gen Z is really looking for. Nick Clason (09:32): What if, what the church has become with the lights and the bells and the whistles and the haze and the what if they're not for that? Like, I I've heard, uh, I've heard younger people in my church talk about the amount of money that we spend on production value, all in an aim and an effort to get people in the room. And then, and then they say, okay, yeah, that's great. But what are we doing to care for the, the poor people down the street in, in downtown Chicago? And, and what if like all the amount of pressure that we put on ourselves as churches to try and get everyone in the building? What if, what if that is not really what they're looking for? Cause I know it sounds cliche, right? But they don't care how much we know until they know how much we care. Nick Clason (10:20): And they're looking for smaller gatherings. Uh, there's a study that Barna did several years ago. Um, and it was well, yeah, several years ago. So 2016, uh, and, and there was a statistic, um, that said 74% of student youth pastors say that teen busyness is the main obstacle to their ministry. And I think the reason being is as he I'll just tell you, anecdotally, as a youth pastor, I, I would feel that in the, the lane or in the sense of like, okay, so, Hey, we have ones in that youth group, you should be here. And then, uh, Susie can't come because Susie has play practice. And max can't come cuz max just made, uh, the football team. And so Susie and max are missing and they're some of you, my core students. And I wish they were there, but they can't be there because they have stuff going on. Nick Clason (11:17): Their schedules are an obstacle to me and my ministry. And so, uh, I think most, most of us in ministry, most youth pastors would say that. I mean, I don't know if you've ever been on like the D YM Facebook group or youth pastors only Facebook group and like seen some of those questions. But gosh, those are some of the, those are some of the main points of conversation. All right. So my, my biggest obstacle in my ministry is student business, 74, almost almost three quarters of youth pastors in America that were surveyed said that. Now check this out. This is the thing that's so fascinating to me because I think we've been, we've been banging that drum for years. We've been saying, we're you guys are too busy. You gotta back it down. You gotta come to the thing. You gotta come to our, our event, right? Nick Clason (12:05): And this is gen Z. These are these students and they wanna do stuff. They wanna do extracurricular activities. Uh, with that same notion, I wish your teen wasn't so busy with that posture towards parents, check this out. 31% of parents think that their teenagers actually need more to do as opposed to less to do all of us would say back your schedules down, find more margin, find more white space and check this only 11%, 11% of parents think that their child is way too busy and way too overscheduled. So the problem that we as youth pastors feel or face is not the same problem that parents are feeling or facing as they're leading their children. And so what I am proposing, what I am thinking, perhaps student ministry, ministry to gen Z, uh, millennials can look like more in the future is they, you can put less pressure on the one, uh, once a week, individual gathering and instead pour all of your gas, all of your effort on to more relationally charged intimate community based settings, where, you know, the individual, I mean, guys, this is tried and true stuff, right? Nick Clason (13:21): Like I, I train and talk to my small group leaders, uh, at nauseam about the importance of knowing their students and knowing them well. And the reality is if one of my small group leaders has 35 students on a roster, they're not doing that. They're not knowing those students individually and they're not knowing them well, but they have a lot of kids on their roster. And as people who've been trained in an industrial way and an industrial line of thinking that, uh, communicates a fair level of success, well, you have 35 kids. Oh my word. That's a lot of people in a small group. Yeah. But how many of those 35 do you know? Well, and do you know, intimately, you know, orange wrote the book a couple years ago called lead small and it's, it's one of the most profound books because I think it's one of the things that all of all youth pastors in America would want to articulate. Nick Clason (14:19): And it's so simple, but it's so clear and it's so good. And so I actually use the book lead small as a small group leader's, uh, job description essentially. And so the five principles on it and listen, I'm gonna try and pull this off the top of my head. So if I do it, gimme, gimme kudos, but it's to be present it's to show up, show up, randomly show up predictably, um, and show up like outside of the program time. Uh, so it's it show up or be present it's, uh, create a safe place. It's partnered with parents. It's moved them out. That's four out of five guys. That's pretty dang good. Um, I can't remember the fifth one, and those of you listening on the other and you're screaming at me right now, but listen, this is hard when you don't have a cohost, you don't have your brain, doesn't have room to breathe. Nick Clason (15:05): So Colin, Cal, I don't know how you do it every week, but congratulations, you are an absolute magician cuz just talking into a microphone by yourself for hours. That is hard. Now my point in saying all that as, uh, lead small is that it's, it's really quite simple because if you look at it, it goes back to what Jesus did. And so church has looked, um, much more produced and much more glamorized. And I think a lot of that was a product of the industrial age. How can we Polish this and bring a level of quality that is going to produce the highest amount of attenders? That's been our goal. How do we get the most amount of people here in this room? And that's not, that's not been a bad thing. I don't think, but I think it's giving us a lot of quantitative data and not a lot of qualitative data. Nick Clason (15:56): We know a lot of people are here, but, but what are their stories? Well, yeah, you gotta get in a small group. Exactly. That's what we're saying. And that's what gen Z's saying. They say we don't care about the big thing. The big show, like you can't outer entertain us. We have TikTok on our phone. There are people swallowing, goldfish all day long on there. What we want is real, what we want is authentic. And so, you know, just one of the things that we've done is, uh, we have actually pulled away in our student ministry and, and decentralized. Um, and what I mean by that is, yeah, we gather together every once in a while, but really the, the win is what happens in the small group type setting. And so just for a little bit of backdrop, a little bit of context in our setting, um, we only meet with our students one time a week. Nick Clason (16:46): Uh, there is weekend services and weekend programming, but there's nothing for students with that. So we encourage them to go to go to service with their parents and we encourage them to serve, um, in one of the services. And so then therefore, uh, when we meet we're meeting at an off peak time pre COVID, we were pretty standard. We had Wednesday night for junior high students and Sunday night for high school students. And I think we squarely fell in the demographic of 74% of youth pastors saying they students are way too. Overscheduled way too busy. That's the problem. That's why I can't get anybody here. COVID came around and absolutely, you know, shut us down. We were in Chicago, we just opened up yesterday essentially. And so that's kind of a joke, but not really also. And so anyway, uh, 20, 20 summer we had been doing, um, a show like a YouTube show completely online and it was great and it was really fun, but the problem was, um, we were, we were talking strategy around our show and uh, I remember one of the, one of the youth pastors on our staff said, uh, she said, you know, the only place in the world right now. Nick Clason (18:00): So think this is like summer 20, 20. She said the only place in the world right now that students can't get in person is church. And so we did right there, a 180 pivot and instead of strategizing around how to make our show more, whatever, attractional more, whatever we, we said, how do we get students in an in-person moment? Now, keep in mind, this is 20, 20 summer. I've said all this a million times. I know, but I'm just trying to give you the context of it. Because at that point in time, our church multi-site megachurch in Chicagoland area. Sure. We were in the south suburb, so sure. We're about an hour away from the city, all the PR all the, um, I dunno, social media that would come along with us, not like not meeting or meeting, like there's gonna be a lot of negativity if we did. Nick Clason (18:51): And so we were still kind of in that world. And so our, our main church, like big church adult church, like they were still not meeting weekly. And so we created, uh, host home based small groups at that time, the state of Illinois was in, I believe it was called phase three of reopening or something like that, three or four. And, um, they, we were the guideline quote unquote was, uh, cuz you know, everything was very quote unquote, but anyway, the guideline was 50 people or less in a gathering, but there was very real chance that we were about to slide back into the, the other phase. So we were in phase three down to phase two or whatever that was, it might have been phase four down to phase three. Doesn't really matter because none of it makes sense and hopefully we never talk about it again. Nick Clason (19:39): But um, the, the more strict phase was 10, 10 students or more not students, sorry, people. This is for the state of Illinois. So we're like if we build small groups, um, and roster get rosters up to about 15 cap, it there knowing that typically 50 to 75% of students, uh, attend weekly. So, you know, if you have 15 on a roster, you're probably seeing seven to, to nine of them every week. And so then therefore we are within the window. Even if we get shut down even further, we can still continue to do this. And so we rolled out, um, a handful, like a bunch of digital groups that met on zoom. And then we also rolled out a ton of host homes. A and what we saw was our pre COVID attendance against enrollment jumped from like 32%. So again, this, that model was Wednesday night come, I'm gonna swallow a goldfish. Nick Clason (20:40): And then after that, you're gonna get in your small group with your leaders who love you and care about you. And every time a new student shows up a new kid gets dumped onto their roster. And so by the time that the school year comes to an end, that small group, leader's holding a roster of 35 students. And if I were to grab that roster and I say, Hey, who is that kid? And point to a name? There's a chance that they may have no idea cuz that kid may have come a week, that they weren't there and then they never came back. And so they've never actually met this kid, but this kid's sitting on their roster. And as far as like pipelines go and as far as like, uh, pastoral care goes, our strategy built around that is that the small group leader cares for that student. Nick Clason (21:18): But the reality is like that small group leader doesn't even know that student's name. And so that was that 32% of attendance. Sure. There may be 35 kids, but the average attendance against the enrollment of the overall small group was 32% pre COVID. We saw that attendance jump right out of the gate after COVID from 32% up to like 76%. And so what we saw was we saw this statistic bear itself out where gen Z's saying, this is what I want. Like I wanna be somewhere where I'm known and even in the face of COVID, I mean, dude, we were doing like full mask. Like you have to wear one, we were enforcing it. Like it was not an optimal way to gather together, but, but students were flocking. And in a lot of ways, I think, you know, the, the juxtaposition or the comparison of the fact that in COVID they're completely locked down and isolated to now we're actually offering some semblance of community and connection. Nick Clason (22:13): Um, obviously didn't hurt us, right? If you starve them of something, then eventually they're gonna go, absence makes the heart grow fonder, but that's what we saw. And so that was something we stumbled upon in COVID cuz we were like, oh dang look at this. And so then we just continued to run that model. And, and to this day our student ministry is still built on that. Um, I, this last, uh, spring, I had 15 small groups. I had one online group. I had four groups that met on campus. I had 10 groups that met in homes. And then of those ten four, no, I'm sorry. Five met on another night of the week. And so I had a Thursday group, I had four Sunday groups and then I had 10 Wednesday groups. And so back to the statistic about student pastors saying the biggest challenge to their student ministry is scheduling and parents not really agreeing with that. Nick Clason (23:10): Um, I think the fact that what, what we've been able to kind of stumble on as a student ministry is, uh, this, this variety of options as it comes to meeting, we've put so much pressure on the meeting, but what, what did Paul say? Right? I mean, I don't know that he was talking to youth pastors, but he could have been, we says don't esteem one day better than the other, but that's how we treat it with scheduling. Like, well for me to preach and for me to do all these things, like I need to get all the students together on a stage and a Wednesday night and get up in front of 'em and tell 'em about Jesus and like, yeah, that, that is the case in the eighties. But, but now for if you want to communicate as a student pastor, if you wanna communicate as a, as a communicator, you don't need a stage and a microphone to do that. Nick Clason (23:57): In fact, you can run this model. Like we're talking about where we have decentralized groups that meet in variety of locations all across the city on variety of nights in a, in a variety of locations, in a variety of environments. And if you record something via video, that same message can be disseminated out to all 15, all 25, all it's an infinitely scalable model. And that's the other piece too. You don't need facility. You don't need more chairs to accommodate more students. What you need is just one more, two more, three more willing host homes. And what I always tell people is now if you have wifi in a couch, you can experience what our church has to offer in student ministry. You no longer have to rely on your schedule to be free. And for your night to, to not have, you know, extracurricular activities and for your parents to drive you from wherever they, they have to drive from to get you to the campus. Nick Clason (24:56): And I get it like every context is different. You know, I, like I said, we're in the suburbs of Chicago, we're a big church. And so therefore we have a pretty wide reach. So sometimes we'll reach people from as far as 30, 45, even an hour away on the weekends. Um, and so those people's kids, um, that want to come back to youth group, they then have to drive 30, 45 an hour back into, you know, where our church is so that they can get to student ministry and to, to experience it. But now they can pick something that's maybe 30 minutes from the church in a host home that is, uh, geographically located 30 minutes from the campus. And so then that way you can also begin building things around region. You could even begin building things around school because how much more realistic is it for students to be in small group with other kids that are in their school, as opposed to just kids who say that they go to the same church and they see each other once a week. Nick Clason (25:58): And so you're like, wow, wow. Do you, when do you ever stand in front of the students? When do you, when do you ever get to know them? And that is, that has been the tough thing. Um, you've probably heard me say it, but my first day was the first day of COVID. So my first day was the, the initial and original production of our show and our show, what it did was it just, it operated as the anchor, the springboard for all of our small groups. It shifted from something that we did in COVID as a, um, youth, youth ministry program replacement to then more, a, um, discussion starter for small groups. And so it's, it's gone on this gigantic evolution now over the last two plus years, but what we're realizing the win is the win is what happens in the rooms. The win is what's happening between the students, between them and their leaders. Nick Clason (26:47): And really what we're just aiming to provide is good, consistent Bible teaching. Um, and we're doing that primarily and mostly through video, we are sitting down, we're recording ourselves, teaching we're recording ourselves, um, you know, presenting, uh, thought from the Bible and then the groups have what they need to, uh, to, to discuss it. And so what I wanna actually do real fast, I just wanna pull up, um, like, Hey, here's what we're doing this, uh, this fall. And so now two and a half years later, our most recent iteration of small groups, um, and, and what we're doing in each of the rooms with each of the themes. And so, um, what we do is we do like a campus night launch. Um, and then after that they have 10 weeks of small groups and that's where this, I think the biggest piece in this is the, uh, ability to vary up the, the, the days and the weeks and the nights of meeting. Nick Clason (27:53): And so I, uh, at my campus, I'm able to offer Sunday night meetings, Wednesday night meetings, Thursday night meetings. And that's really, I think like the, where the rubber meets the road on, on everything that makes it really helpful and beneficial. So, um, in addition to like providing teaching, we try to provide like a theme or some sort of activity for every group to do. And so this is where hybrid can really, really come into play. So the first night of small group, we're just doing sweet or sour and what our like video segment is gonna be is we're just gonna say, Hey, listen, like one great practice to do is you're getting to know each other. And as you're getting to get in the rhythm of small group messages, talk about the sweetest part of your week and the most sour part of your week. Nick Clason (28:38): And maybe to start that week, we're gonna just talk about, Hey, this was the sweetest part of my summer, and this was the most sour part of my summer. Um, then the week after that, we're gonna play a little game called yay or nay. And our thought behind that is we're going to do, um, like eight or 10 things that we just say like, Hey, um, cookies. And then let the, the students hold up a little paddle that says, yay, like a green sign or flip it over to a red sign that says, nay. And then we're gonna say you have 30 seconds to decide answer, and then defend your answer. And so we're hoping it kind of creates a little bit of banter between them and the students. And what we'll do is we'll just have like a 32nd timer. And then when that's over a little ding and they'll move on the next one. Nick Clason (29:21): And so it goes from cookies to pineapple and pizza, yay, or nay boom, 30 seconds. And then a little countdown video thing. Week three is gonna be board game nights, pretty self explanatory, bring a board game, play it together. Week number four is gonna be a service project. And what we're actually doing is we are, um, doing operation Christmas child. So we are gonna give all of our groups like 10 shoe boxes, and we're gonna challenge them to fill 10. And we're gonna do a competition to see who can fill the most amount of shoe boxes. And so then we're going to let them literally just physically do a packing party in their small groups, wherever they meet on campus in host homes. And then if they're online, we'll figure so up for that. Um, we're gonna then do, after that, we're gonna do an escape room and that's gonna operate as like an invite night. Nick Clason (30:05): And so we're gonna give 'em a puzzle, um, and some things and some codes to try and figure out, and we're gonna let them work on that together and hopefully bring a friend to it. And then we're gonna use like, uh, our YouTube channel or whatever with just, uh, countdown and maybe some ominous music. And so they have to get this puzzle solved within 45 minutes. And while the clock is going, there'll be little hints. And, um, voiceover things kind of popped in there by me or one of our other team members to just encourage them as they go the next week is gonna be karaoke night. So we're just gonna pull together some, some songs and into our YouTube playlist and they can just sing some karaoke together, have fun as a small group the next week is around Halloween time. So that's gonna be, uh, some Halloween house parties. Nick Clason (30:50): We're gonna give them, uh, an option of a couple of things that they can do, but really that's just, Hey, throw a party, get some candy, you know, do Halloween stuff. Um, then the week after that we're gonna play, would you rather, it's gonna feel very much like yay or nay instead of yay or nay like iPhones and pineapple and pizza. Now it's gonna be like, would you rather it's like, would you rather, uh, this is my favorite, would you rather question, would you rather eat ice cream flavored poop or poop flavored ice cream? Yeah, let me know, let me know the comments. We wanna know hybrid ministry.xyz or on Twitter at hybrid ministry. Come find us and let us know which of your would you rather it would be, uh, then we're gonna play fall feud, fall family feud. We're gonna, uh, send out a, a text. Nick Clason (31:32): Some of our students gather some survey data on some fall or like autumn related questions and then get that same data and then let them play based on their answers that they gave. And then finally, the last week of small group is, uh, show and tell donut edition, bring your favorite donut and bring a second one to share with someone else. And that's just an excuse to have a giant donut party as a celebration of the last week of small groups, then that leads us right up to Thanksgiving in the scope of our calendar. We'll come back for a couple weeks after Thanksgiving, do a couple Christmas related events and it'll feel very Christmas party esque, and then we break for Christmas. And so that's kind of how we use this idea of decentralized, um, host home model, small groups. And that's how we use technology to create for our students a hybrid experience. Nick Clason (32:25): And so I'm still the youth pastor. I still preach and teach, but I do view video. Um, and my talking head or my teaching content experiences get distributed to 15 groups at my campus, probably another 15 groups at our other couple campuses. And so that helps, that helps me be in 30 something places at any given time throughout the week. And so that's, that's one of the ways that we're utilizing and using hybrid ministry and hopefully doing something that is gen Z centric and gen Z forward thinking because the game back to the whole thing, they don't know, they don't care how much we know until they know how much we care. And that's what we're attempting to do is we're attempting to give them a safe place, the lead small principle, and it comes all the way back from Jesus of Nazareth who ultimately said to us, Hey, this is the great commission. Nick Clason (33:27): Go make disciples of all nations, teaching them everything. I've commanded. You baptizing them name the father, son, holy spirit. And he promises us as presence. I'll be with you even always to the very end of the age. That's what the church is built on church. Isn't built on a show church isn't built on a Sunday morning experience. Church is built on the people of God coming together, Hebrews 10, 24 and 25, continuing to, to meet together, to encourage one another, to spur one another on, do not give up meeting together. The writer of Hebrew says that is the, that's the core, the core tenant of the church. And for a lot of years, the only way to do that was a once a week gathering on Sundays in between farming. But we don't live in that, that agricultural world anymore. We're in a digital age. And so our students they're digital. Nick Clason (34:22): They, they, they think digital first. And so before, you know, it generation Z is gonna make up the majority of the attenders in your church, but you're already probably feeling some of the effects of it. And if you're not a youth pastor, like I am, it may not feel as, as imminent. Um, but they are on their way and they are on the horizon. And I know for me, they are the primary students that I am tasked with reaching right now. And so I don't have a choice if you're a pastor of older adults and millennials and gen Xers, then you may feel like this is a little further off for you and you might be right. Um, but the reality is that the oldest generation Z, they are starting to graduate from college and they're looking to enter the church. And they're saying some of these same things, probably around the same percentage that they prefer small gatherings over big parties. Nick Clason (35:20): So how can you use hybrid versions of ministry to reach these people and to even disciple them and even reinforce and galvanize the community around them? Well, that's it guys, that's it for the solo pod, uh, make sure you reach out to Matt, let him know that you are happy for him, that you're excited for him that he's gonna have a baby. Um, I'm gonna text him right now and figure out if they had the baby or not. They were in the hospital last night, so we'll have to see, but anyway, Hey, check us out. Online hybrid ministry dot X, Y, Z, we're on Twitter at hybrid ministry. If you find this helpful a rating or a review would be incredibly generous and incredibly helpful to us, it helps us rank higher in the podcast standings. And we have show notes. I don't know if you know this, but you can go to our, uh, hybrid ministry.xyz website. And we do an offer you a full transcript of everything that we say. And then anything that we talk about, uh, we will link to that in our show notes. So you can have access to some of those downloads for free, just go grab 'em. Um, but give us a shout. Give us a rating. Give us a review. Love to get to know you guys a little bit more. Appreciate you being a part of this journey with us. And until next time, we'll see you.
In this episode, Matt and Nick discuss ways to remain personally healthy and maintaining good boundaries with digital, social media, and how to avoid burning out while working in a church or in ministry. Join in on the conversation. Leave one of your best hacks in the comment section below! Follow us on Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry Or check us out online - http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00-1:29 - Intro and Welcome 1:29-6:28 - Rest & Boundaries with Digital Ministry 6:28-11:10 - Hack 1 - Find a Hobby 11:10-18:00 - Hack 2 - Turn your phone to mute 18:00-23:22 - Hack 3 - Avoid Social Media 23:23-28:26 - Hack 4 - Get up Early and Read your Bible 28:26-33:10 - Hack 5 - Take care of yourself physically 33:10-37:21 - Hack 6 - Use all of your vacation 37:21-38:57 - Stat Correction - Take your TikTok Watermark off of all your Instagram Reel posts 38:55-39:12 - Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:01): Well, hello everybody. And welcome to another edition of the hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my amazing friend. And co-host Matt Johnson, Matt, how are we doing this morning, Matt Johnson (00:18): Nick? I am doing great. I, uh, woke up with for a nice little run, go the sunrise. It was, uh, just a really refreshing morning, able to pray a little bit. It was a great way to start the day. So, Nick Clason (00:31): So when you run, are you a podcast guy? Are you a music guy or are you a nothing guy so that you can have your, your prayer moments? Matt Johnson (00:41): Oh, good question. Um, so normally I'm a podcast guy, but right now I'm going through an audio book about how to raise great daughters, cuz I'm about to have a daughter and I'm freaking out a little bit um, but you got Nick Clason (00:56): The first little bit, all they do is poop, man. Matt Johnson (00:58): Yeah. So you know of watching all the newborn videos and stuff, but I think that was why I went for that run, but I usually pause it at some point and just, you know, do some prayer. Um, but I'm not a psychopath like Joe Rogan where I just listen to nothing, my entire run like a crazy person. I don't understand that. Nick Clason (01:15): I didn't know that about him, but yeah, that's psychotic, Matt Johnson (01:17): he, uh, I remember podcasts forever ago where he was talking about that. He's like, if you're listening to something during you're run, you're not running right. Or something along those lines. And ever since then, I was like, this man is a crazy man. So, Nick Clason (01:32): Well, that's actually a good kind of segueing tool I wanna talk about today. Um, I, this one, this one feels a little bit of like a deviation. I feel like from what our normal kind of topics are, but I wanted talk about rest and boundaries. Um, love it as it pertains to working in a church as it pertains to being the social media person. And so, you know, I thought, I thought we could just kind of have a conversation around the importance of that, um, rest, uh, and how we restore ourselves. Uh, because from my vantage point, if you're listening to this podcast, the odds are you are the social media person at your church, or at least you're interested in it, some degree in fashion and people like that are typically the most technologically savvy in their church. That means that they're, um, young or whatever, for whatever reason you've been pegged that person. Nick Clason (02:26): Uh, and so that means that you are the person on social media maybe personally. So how do you create good boundaries between, um, your work life, which is gonna be about what you're posting and what you're trying to do for your church, uh, digitally in a hybrid sort of way, and then how you personally restore and how you personally, uh, rest and reflect. And so even, you know, you saying you're out on a run and, uh, just using that as a time to kind of pray and process. I'm wondering if that's one of yours, but I'm not gonna give, give anything away. So mm-hmm, what, like before we dive into like tips and hacks, like what's been your observation or your experience with this sort of thing, as it relates to people working in churches or working in ministry context. Matt Johnson (03:09): Um, the biggest thing I have noticed personally, of people working in the ministry, especially, uh, the church ministry world is burnout is exceptionally high. Um, and I think it has a lot large part to do with, uh, you know, usually people are wearing multiple and multiple of hats. Um, mm-hmm, for some, probably 90% of people listen, this podcast are, you know, running social media, being a youth pastor and, uh, in charge of some other ministry at their church. So, um, and it's just, cuz we know, um, the margin of like resources at a church is just little thinner when it comes to stuff, cuz you're relying on not revenue streams necessarily. So, um, I think it's easy to get burned out and it's easy to kind of lose focus of what's actually important and not take care of ourselves. And I've also noticed usually people go on a sabbatical way too late mm-hmm um, usually we go, okay, it's time for you to do a sabbatical. And you know that person's been there 20 years on burnout. They come back from the sabbatical and they still have it fully recovered usually. So, um, yeah, we just gotta figure out how do we get you through those points where you don't have vacation where you're in the middle of everything else going on, especially like Christmas and Easter seasons is a great example. Nick Clason (04:33): Yeah. Yeah. It's , it's the whole sabbatical. Thing's funny. I've been in, in ministry now 11 and a half, almost 12 years. Most churches give sabbatical around year seven, but it's, it's a sabbatical from like your church. So seven years at your church and I've never, I've never made it that long. So yeah. Matt Johnson (04:52): exactly. Nick Clason (04:53): Don't know what that's they don't know what that feels like. Matt Johnson (04:55): I know that's more, that's the typical person. So they go from one church, you know, they get pretty to that edge of burnout and they go to the next church, they get refreshed. Cause you get that energy being somewhere new, but then like that mean it's the same workload sometimes more. Um, I've never really been anywhere. That's been a less workload than the last place for a long period of time. So Nick Clason (05:17): Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. And, and in my case almost most, most jobs I've taken, I've not had any sort of like weaker whatever in between. Like I remember, uh, couple, a couple of job transitions ago. My last week, um, at one church was running, executing everything for summer camp. We like did our own summer camp. So like I was teaching, speaking, all those things, um, drove home, packed my office. And then that was like on Saturday morning, the next day I went to my new church and then that Monday morning I boarded the bus to go to their summer camp. So it was like two back to back weeks of summer camp. And so it wasn't, it wasn't, you know, from one job with a nice little break and a nice little pause, it was literally like boom done. Here we go onto the next one. Nick Clason (06:01): And so, yep. And I think that some of that mean like there's just a cultural expectation about, um, work and hustle and all those types of things and, and you know, we can get into like, uh, generations and the different, the different approaches to work and attitudes toward work and all those types of things. And I, there's definitely a difference. Um, and we don't wanna be lazy, you know, but we also wanna be smart, you know, with what we're doing in our workloads and stuff like that. So, uh, I had each of us kind of come up with three tips or tricks, uh, as it pertains to, um, rest boundaries. And so Matt, do you wanna go first and share your first tip, your first trick, your first hack, um, on having good rhythms of rest? Matt Johnson (06:44): Yeah, absolutely. Um, my first tip hack, um, is really find that hobby that, um, helps you escape. Um, like that is your hobby that you can, um, when you get home or on the weekend that you can go do that is nothing to do with work. like it can't have anything to do with work. And I have two, uh, one is fly fishing and I love fly fishing, especially, um, what the aspect is. I can go to the middle of nowhere and I have no cell service . And Nick Clason (07:22): How often are you fly fishing in Chicago? Matt Johnson (07:24): Uh, not a lot here, but when I was in Colorado, I was going about every other weekend and my stepdad dad, and I would go up to the mountains, find some river and I'd have go to canyons and I'd have no cell service. So even if the of the world went on fire, I'd have no idea. Um, which was awesome because like I could really unplug. And then the second thing for me personally is, uh, gaming video games. Um, you need, and that's, uh, you know, I worked in the game industry as an intern for a long time and um, they've always been a huge part of my life. So, uh, I, uh, able to escape different worlds, um, and really just like live out whatever I'm doing, but that's actually become a time where I bond with all my friends from like high school and stuff. So those are two great hobbies, both, uh, very different one. I literally unplug from the world and the other one you're virtually unplugging. So both, uh, the work good for me mentally. Nick Clason (08:26): Yeah. So like, okay, let, let me, uh, push, push a little bit on this. So you are not in Colorado anymore. You are in Chicago, you don't like fly fishing is not a super accessible thing here. So how have you personally kind of dealt with that as like, do you feel like, uh, the, the geography of your, your current occupation is keeping you from being able to access one of your hobbies and how, how are you like dealing with that navigating through that? Matt Johnson (08:55): Yeah, that's a, I mean, that's a great question. It has definitely changed the way I do fly fish. So, um, I mean there's a fly fishing community out here, but it's very different than the Colorado community they're fly fishing and ponds and like lakes and stuff. Nick Clason (09:09): Yeah. Which Matt Johnson (09:10): I mean is totally fine, but I, when I fly fish, I like to stand in the river with my waiters on, let the water rush over me and just be, really be in nature. So I've done that aspect where, okay, I'm gonna, you know, um, go lake fly fishing or whatever. Um, there are a couple streams, you know, you just gotta drive to them. So it definitely though has hindered my, uh, my escapism through fly fishing. So I've had to be a little more creative with how I escape into nature now. And that's been more intentional going to just nature preserves and, you know, um, uh, like just trying my best to escape into the wilderness, how I can here. But as you know, there's not tons of nature around the , so Nick Clason (10:00): yeah, Matt Johnson (10:01): Yeah. It is definitely a challenge here. Nick Clason (10:04): Yeah, no, it's good. I, I think like for me, uh, this is one of things I'm honestly really, really terrible at is having my own hobbies because I, I like my hobby. I do feel like in a lot of ways is being a youth pastor. And so, um, it's funny cuz like, uh, guy used to work for, uh, I would text him like an idea about youth mysteries, like randomly late at night and he was like stop working. And I said, I, I, this is, this is what's fun for me, you know? Uh, but the, to your point, the problem is like if I only ever do that only ever think about that, I don't have anything that's legitimately just for me, you know? Yep. Um, and even like things like I'll go on runs and I'll listen to podcasts and they're typically ministry related podcasts, you know, I have some, I have some that are more hobby related like sports or whatever. Um, and those typically those typically fly to the top of my playlist queue anyway. Uh, so that, that maybe is the way I do it, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not very good at this. So thanks. Thank you for challenging me already this Matt Johnson (11:10): Morning. It's my Nick Clason (11:11): Goal, man. So all right. Uh, okay, so here's a hack I have. Okay. Um, and I don't know if this is a good strategy or not, especially for like a communications person in your church. Um, it's gonna, it's gonna maybe feel like, uh, not the, maybe the best strategy. Uh, but my phone personally, dude, like it never rings. Yep. Um, I literally have it on mute all the time. in fact I was it yesterday, maybe it was two days ago. I literally lost my phone for like two hours at work. And um, I, I, I retraced all my steps. I couldn't find it. And do you know what everyone's solution was? They said, oh, do you want me to call you which like I have an office phone. Like I would've done this myself. If I thought that this was an option, but I knew it wasn't because even if they call me, it was just going to be silent and, and people are like, oh, but if you're near it, you'll hear it buzz. Nick Clason (12:13): No, like not on vibrate, like all the way silent. Like it never, I don't have any notifications come through ever. Um, and so like the only thing that's even like remotely, uh, close to my phone ringing, quote unquote, is, uh, I have a watch. And so like my, my wife, her texts and phone calls, those are the two things that like come through to my watch. Otherwise everything else is essentially muted. And I don't have like email push notifications come through to my phone. Um, the only thing that does come through to my phone or like text messages or whatever. And, and that's part of my, like part of my strategy, because as I've stepped into this place, which has got just more people and more demands and all those types of things, uh, more and more people are looking and kind of vying for your time. Nick Clason (13:01): And so instead of the way I, the hack, I guess, and this for me is instead of letting my phone dictate to me when I'm supposed to respond, I, I choose those and I build pockets of those into my schedule, you know? So like it's not that I don't check my email. I check it every single day, multiple times a day, but I don't do it when it dings and comes through to me. Um, and that's also just like for me, a focus, uh, a focus hack as well, because if I'm writing something or doing something and I get a ding or a notification, uh there's there's studies that say like the brain is unable to multitask and is unable to, to go over to one thing and come back to another thing with the same capacity it takes, it takes a gr I don't remember what the exact like numbers are, but it takes a ridiculous amount of time for your brain to shut that back off and go back into, you know, that other thing. Nick Clason (13:56): So, uh, I just, I grab my phone and if there's stuff on there that I need to respond to, I do it, but I do so kind of on my own time. So I, I really, I treat text a lot, like how I treat email. Um, because again, they're not, they're not driving me and speaking of driving, uh, sometimes that drives people insane. Um, and so I, you know, I just like, I'm up front with them a little bit and I say, Hey, sorry. I was, you know, doing whatever, cuz it's, it's not that I'm often just being lazy and ignoring it. It's just that for me to be able to focus, I need to not be being distracted. Mm-hmm so, Matt Johnson (14:31): Yep. No, I love that. I, uh, I'm the same way I keep my phone on mute too. Um, except for my wife and, uh, setting that up has been a game changer for me personally. And I'm sorry if I miss your calls or it takes me a little bit to get back to you, but if it's super important, give me a call. Like you, it goes to my watch and then I go check my phone and then, um, see what's going on. So Nick Clason (14:55): Yeah. Well, and I mean, yesterday I sent you like four messages, um, and they, like, none of them were urgent and they were all just sort of like, um, observations or like funny things or like, oh, did you see this? And you just, you responded to all of them, like in one text, you know? Yep. And I didn't need it. I, I didn't need you to respond. So I was totally fine. Like with the pace with which you replied, I knew eventually you'd get to it. And so I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like worried about it. And so that contrary to popular belief, uh, that is okay. Yes, Matt Johnson (15:27): Definitely. And we need to be okay with that as a culture and a society. Um, and we also need to realize that 99% of things that we have think is urgent are not urgent now. Um, that's something I've run into a lot. Uh we're like, we get this out right now. This is super important. And I'm like, well, yeah, let's get it out right now. But the difference between now and, you know, an hour from now, there's no difference actually in communication or, uh, the stress level of that. So, and that's gonna, we have to get out of the tyranny of the urgent. So mm-hmm Nick Clason (16:02): yeah. So, so like, let's get super, super practical on this for just two seconds. Cuz so like my wife and I, for whatever reason, the last two churches I've worked at have been like, they've been like the absolute iron curtain for uh, text messages. And so like my phone doesn't really work super well in, in the churches I've worked in. And so my wife and I have just defaulted to using, um, like WhatsApp as a text message service. And so I use that regularly every single day, but really only with my wife. And so that's how I have like custom notifications of hers that come through. But nobody else's. Um, how, how have you set it up where you get text messages alerted to you that are only from your wife and nobody else, like what's the setup for you on your Matt Johnson (16:48): Like phone? Yeah. I just I've set her up on iPhone. Like you can start setting people up and you do not disturb as like, um, your favorites or whatever. And that's who she is. I have her and my mom and that's it. And I only have MYM on just cuz you know, whatever craziness could happen back home, I want to be available. But um, and then my wife obviously, cause like I said, she's pregnant, so I gotta be ready at the drop of a whim to make sure, you know, whatever happens happens. So it's been a yeah, it's my wife and obviously she's, you know yeah. My favorite Nick Clason (17:20): Even if, even if she's not pregnant. Yeah, yeah. It's it's your wife. So I love that. Cool. Yeah. So like you said, I think that's a really good, I think, I think, uh, we're we are in a little bit of a cultural moment of shifting more to this because I mean asked, think about the other day I grabbed my phone and I was like, dang, there's so many just notifications on here. And like that's what apps have have learned like, oh push notifications are the way to get people's attention. Yeah. But if, you know, I like when I grab my mom's phone, for example, she has 47,000 unread notifications. I'm like, what is the point of this? Like your brain can't physically process all this. So I dunno. Anyway. All right. Hack number two for you. Matt Johnson (18:01): Um, so even I'm gonna piggyback off a little bit of your phone stuff. So mine is also with phone and this is really to do with mental health and this is gonna probably sound crazy coming from the, a marketing communications person is I try to avoid social media as much as possible in my free time. Um, yeah. So I try to keep up with social media trends. So maybe at the most I'm on, you know, I'll look at social media an hour at the most, but I try driving a hit an hour, you know, I try to do like maybe 30 minutes, I've deleted most of the apps off my phone. So I actually have to be do my due diligence, like make it part of my work rhythms. Like I'm taking social for work. I'm not checking social to pass time. Um, and I was just realizing that I was just becoming so negative about so many different things, um, that I shouldn't be negative or mad about. Like my sports teams being mad about whatever's going on with them. um, mad about some Nick Clason (18:57): Sports are so dumb, man. They get me in such a bad news. Matt Johnson (19:00): Exactly. That's like, why am I mad about this? Like I used to love this, uh that's cuz I wasn't on Twitter worried about what other people were saying or worried about what trade was happening or on Reddit, seeing what all the sports, all the people in my fandom, my, um, think, um, seemed with like video games, the bashing of like video games or even the church, like, you know, you would go on Twitter and I can see how people, you know, make, say, say something about the church and it's really easy to get down about that. So I just started like going, you know, this isn't worth it for me mentally. Um, and uh, I'm not gonna waste my time with it. So I deleted a bunch of the apps and I've made it okay, I'm gonna check social for work purposes or um, check it up on family. Matt Johnson (19:44): But I, most of my family doesn't even post anymore. We have our group chats and that's kind of, what's become the thing for us to like keep in touch with each other. So if I have a photo of ultrasound or whatever, I don't need to post that on Instagram right away. I just send it over to my group, my family group chat, and I hear all their thoughts and there's only ones I even care about. So, um, yeah, it's definitely weird cuz like the last couple episodes we've talked about how important it is for you to be on social. Um, but yeah, I think it is important to be on social, but you also need to have that balance where social media is not taking over your life. And if you're starting to see it affect it mentally affect you. Like you, you should do something about that. Mm-hmm and you and I were talking yesterday about all the studies that have come out about the effects of social media on the brain, watch the social dilemma on Netflix. Like we don't know, well, we're starting to see the ramifications of social media and we need to have clear boundaries with it. I think personally. Nick Clason (20:42): Yeah. I, you know, as a youth pastor we'll post a lot of stuff on social media or whatever, and then like I'll have a mom or dad or whoever a parent say, you know, Hey, our kids don't have social media and I will literally respond with that is great. And I fully support that decision. Exactly. Honestly, I do. Like if, if be, so I feel like being on social media is an opportunity to try and reach a certain demographic of kid. Who's probably not doing anything, um, useful or good with their time on social media and if they have poor boundaries and they're just on it all the time, like then I want us to, to be a part of their feed and part of their algorithm. And so that there is some, some Jesus in there. Right. But otherwise if a parent is parenting in that sort of way, like I support it fully. Nick Clason (21:29): And quite frankly, as a dad of a six and a half year old, like I can't imagine giving him social media here in more years or, or 10 or whatever, you know, whatever that's gonna be like. And so I, I think it's, yeah, it feels very like double edged sword. So it's, we're, we're producing things for social media. We're producing things for digital content, but we're not, um, necessarily personally engaging in those things. Mm-hmm , you know, um, ourselves and yeah, I, I agree with you. Like there's been times where, um, I, I feel very, uh, full of anxiety or I'm really like, I notice myself being really short, like with my kids, I have a really short, uh, like just patience level with them. And oftentimes that's a direct correlation to just the amount of time I'm spending on my phone or the amount of time that I'm, you know, worrying about whatever sort of thing I'm and that's, you know, especially in the last couple years, like, uh, at work and stuff, I'll people will talk to me about news, like news things. And I literally am like, oh wait, what's happening. Like I don't watch the news. Like it is not, is not good for my mental health. Just tell me what I need to know and what lit was actually affecting me and the rest. I'm gonna try to not think about cuz that's again, the, the, I think the brain was not meant to process the amount of information that we as Americans have access to on a daily basis basis. Matt Johnson (22:55): No, it definitely wasn't. I mean, you just look at the history of the human brain and you see like, this is the only time in culture where we've really ever had to deal with this. So, and why is anxiety, depression and everything so high right now? I mean, it's not all cause of social media, but definitely that's a contributing factor to it. So cause I felt it, you know, I feel it, I get more depressed and anxious like you were saying, so Nick Clason (23:19): Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, alright, sweet. So, um, alright. So my next one is, uh, it's gonna feel like a little bit of a, a Zig to the zag of this rest conversation uh, but I, uh, gosh, it's been about a year, year and a half or so. Um, but I have made, um, mornings, uh, getting up in the morning with coffee, going, uh, to read my Bible a priority and it's been a thing I've basically not missed for about a year. So I used to, you know, I have, I have young kids, uh, six and four. And so, um, you know, a year ago, year and a half ago when I started there five and three or two or whatever. And uh, I would used to just sleep in, um, until they came and woke me up, which so that there was no sleeping in all right. Nick Clason (24:09): But there was a, they were pretty, pretty good. Uh, we have this little like clock thing that turns green when they're allowed to get outta bed. And so that's set for seven. And so they're pretty good about following that. And so I would, I used to lay in bed and sometime after seven they'd come in with their little clock that was green and they'd say, Hey, our clock's green, you know, we get up and I would always feel like I was just running, be behind. Like I was, I'd always just felt like I, uh, was catching up to the rest of my day, the rest of my morning. And so kind of around that, whatever, whatever time, like a year ago or so I was like, I'm gonna get up at six every morning cuz I knew that they're probably gonna get up around seven. Nick Clason (24:47): And uh, the way I did it is we have like, uh, uh, Amazon Alexa app, uh, like all of our lights. Uh, so like I have my lights automatically turn on at six down in the dining room and every night before I go to bed, now I program coffee. And so as soon as I wake up, I literally smell coffee and see the lights. Um, those things just helped me get out of bed. the idea of setting an alarm and then getting up and then going down and doing all that stuff. Mm-hmm um, it, it, I just would, at that time I would just mentally cash it in and say whatever I'm asleep in, I'll do it again. I'll do it tomorrow. And so like those few hacks have helped me get up. Um, and then what I do is I get up, I drink coffee and I spend time reading my Bible and that has been one of the most centering and grounding things for me. Nick Clason (25:37): And, uh, I was doing it by myself and then a couple months later my wife actually joined me. Um, and so it's been a thing that we'll we'll do together. We'll just both get up. Coffee's going, we each have a cup. We're sitting, uh, at the dining room table, she's reading her Bible, I'm reading my Bible. Um, and we are just connecting ourselves, centering ourselves to our source. Mm-hmm and it's less sleep. Yes, because I'm waking up an hour early. So on the like immediate need of rest, it may feel like it's, it's less right. But as a discipline, now that's woven in to what I do. Um, other things have adjusted to accommodate this because I know how important it is. And so for example, we don't stay up as late because we know we're gonna get up at six, uh, to read our Bible and to drink coffee. Nick Clason (26:26): And so maybe we're not watching that next episode when we end one on Netflix instead we'll turn the TV off and you say, all right, what? It's probably time to go to bed, you know, so we can get up. But that has been an absolute game changer for me, uh, just in, in my personal rhythms. And um, if I start my day, that way with a little bit of it's a slower pace, uh, without the kids, um, waking me up outta bed, uh, then, then when they do come outta their rooms and everything like that, I feel like I've done what I need to do. Um, and I'm able to, uh, go after whatever I need to go after that day. Um, as it pertains to work, rest, social media, all those types of things. Like all those things can happen now because my time with Jesus has already taken place. Mm-hmm so that's been a game changer for me develop Matt Johnson (27:14): That. I, uh, yep. I do. I do the same thing. So, uh, wake up early and I love reading my Bible in the morning, um, before or after my workout. So Nick Clason (27:26): Yeah. Yeah, it's good. And like I said, uh, you know, I, I, I knew myself and so know yourself. Like I knew I needed some prompting to get out bed. And so that's why I learned how to use the programmer on my coffee maker. Um, and I, I recently started roasting my own coffee. And so I, my, the coffee I make at my house is actually my, my, my favorite coffee, you know, there's a really good roaster down the street that a lot of people here like, and I like it too, but I, I think my coffee's better. I think your coffee's better. What Matt Johnson (27:58): I'm literally Nick Clason (28:00): Well, what I'm literally drinking right now, I roasted at like five 30 last night in my garage. So like, it can't, it cannot get fresh. Exactly. You know? And so there's really, you know, that's maybe another podcast topic, all do Matt Johnson (28:13): A coffee roasting podcast. Nick Clason (28:15): I love that job. Also people out there it's really easy and it's actually quite cost effective. Very, so, uh, there you go. All right, Matt, your last one, what do you got? So Matt Johnson (28:26): My next, my last one, um, this is something that you, I think everyone should be doing is we gotta take care of ourselves physically in some aspect. Um, yeah. Nick Clason (28:36): Yeah. Matt Johnson (28:37): I, uh, I'm, I love running. Running's a great time for me to, uh, you know, really process and rest and get my endorphins up and think, and also take care of my heart and my body. And it's also, I've noticed as I've worked in ministry, like every year I gain a little bit more weight because, you know, they just get a little crazy. And also as you know, these churches and ministries, they love the things that are bad for you like donuts and, uh, um, as much junk food as they can get chips, mountain do, especially being a youth pastor, all the stuff you deal with, it's really easy to kind of lose sight of your, uh, physical health. But, uh, honestly my favorite thing to do is to swim. Um, I'm a big swimmer. I was a swim in my, with, uh, in high school, very competitively went to, uh, state and stuff. Matt Johnson (29:27): So, um, met my wife's swimming. It's like a really big thing in our lives. And, uh, what I love about swimming is waking up at, you know, um, usually very early, like 5:00 AM. going to the pool and it's just, it's like dark out and I'm just in the water, me and my thoughts. Um, mm-hmm and so it's kind of a time of meditation. I'm, you know, weightless, I'm able to really work out, control your breathing cause you have to in swimming, it's this very, um, cathartic thing for me that I've, uh, really grown to love. And it is honestly probably the hardest thing to wake up to. Cause there's nothing like waking up and being cold outside and going. I'm gonna go get in a 72 degree pool and uh, swim for an hour. And, uh, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest. It's been a little bit harder to keep my swimming hobby here in Chicago, because there's just not a lot of pools here, really, Nick Clason (30:28): Dude, I know, trust me. So, Matt Johnson (30:30): And I'm coming from a world, like when I lived in Colorado where every recreation center had a pool, cuz the pool swimming was just a huge, um, pastime there. So it's been very hard to keep that up here. That's why running has become more of my zeitgeist, but like swimming is that thing where, cuz you can't really have headphones swimming. You can't, you, I mean you have to be in your thoughts, which, um, it's just a weird time, but it's also a time that I've talked to God more than any time in my life is when I swim. So Nick Clason (31:01): yeah, it's good. Yeah. Since, you know, like when we moved here, it was middle of pandemic and so like, uh, we canceled our gym membership in Ohio from when we moved and I didn't pick one back up when I got here, obviously cuz there's a pandemic going on and gyms weren't even a thing. And so, uh, I took up running just to get out of the house and I never thought I'd be a runner, but you know, um, I am now and I look forward to it and I enjoy it. And in a lot of the same ways, it's kind of that just cathartic experience for me. Um, a great place to be alone with my thoughts or even just on a podcast and back to your hobby point. Like there are, I listen to a lot of ministry podcasts and so those are in there for sure. Nick Clason (31:48): But uh, the ones I most look forward to our, the entertainment ones, ones about sports, basketball, fantasy football, all those types of things. And so that's my, that's my attempt to disconnect, you know, a little bit. And so I agree like man exercise that there's such a, I don't know what I, I think like the landscape is shifting a little bit, like I think millennials and gen Z are, are pushing these things. But I think that there's some, there's been some notions of older generations that are like, oh, I don't have time to do that. Like I just, I need to focus on my work and um, that's just, that's super, Matt Johnson (32:20): Very, somewhat healthy. Nick Clason (32:24): And, and you like in all of this, right, this entire conversation is woven into like you, you need to be the best version of you to be the most effective at leading some of stuff. And if you're not, you're you're not gonna be very effective. Mm-hmm so find whatever that thing is. And you know, like you, my wife will say like, you know, she's like, she'll struggle to like find time to do it. And I'm like, you, you can't afford not to a little bit, you know, like you gotta, you gotta figure it out. You gotta make it a priority. And so it's, you know, cuz we got kids and so someone's gotta stay with them. And so, you know, I'm like, Hey, like I know this is important for you to do so let me, uh, you know, let's, let's figure it out so that you can have what you need. I can have what I need, all that type of stuff. Matt Johnson (33:04): So exactly. Nick Clason (33:05): Yeah. All right. Love it. Last one for me then is, uh, this one's work related. Um, but use all of your vacation time that your work gives you. Nick Clason (33:17): Like don't leave any on the table. I, there are people who like don't use it all and I, what are you doing that is li PTO stands for paid time off your, your job is telling you that we will pay you. If you take this time off, you have earned this. This is a part of our agreement that we've made with you. You can work here and we will still allow you your paycheck and your salary. If you, uh, take this amount of time off mm-hmm so don't leave any PTO on the table. Like that is a bad, bad strategy. , uh, use it all. And you know, there like our, our, our work lets you like roll some like a, a week's a week's worth into the next year. Um, I never have that to do. Like I literally never have any to roll. Nick Clason (34:12): I burn all of it. It is gone. I use it early. I use it often. Like it is, uh, it's it's one of my strategies to staying, uh, you know it, my, I don't know. It's just, for me, life is more than just a job and life is more than just work. And so, uh, use all of your PTO. That is a great way to stay fresh, stay healthy, do the things that are important to you, do the things that matter to you. And even if you're, you know, if you're listening to this and you're in ministry, odds are, you probably are thinking like, okay, but I don't have a lot of money to go on vacation. Then don't go on vacation, just stay home and do fun stuff with your family and your kids. But like, don't like, just because you can't go anywhere else doesn't mean that you should then default into going to work. Like the place will not burn down if you're not there. Yeah. So Matt Johnson (35:02): Exactly. And um, my favorite thing is it's kind of a badge of honor with the, uh, lot of older gen the older generation that I know is like, yeah, I have this much PTO. I haven't used my old vice president on marketing. My old job used to have every year he would roll over like 120 hours of PTO. And finally I got to the point where I would tell him, like, you need to take PTO, don't check on me. Like just go on vacation. He was his vacation. So, um, he started doing that and he would take two weeks off a year to just do some carpentry stuff, cuz that was his favorite hobby and it was super healthy for him. So, um, but he hadn't done that, you know, for like 15 years at the company. So take your PTO. I totally agree. Nick Clason (35:43): You look, you literally, I mean there are literal studies out there I should have, I should have had 'em to cite 'em a little bit more, but you are not good if you don't have margin baked into your life, like you, your body and your brain need those things to make you more creative. Yep. And it's, you know, in some of those spaces and in some of those margins where your brain will be able to connect some of those dots, you can't just, you can't just hard charge and be eight hours or 12 hours a day with, with no space, you know? Yeah. Some of the, I, I, I dunno if you've ever heard of this map, but uh, I think like Winston Churchill, um, he would take like a nap every single day and he is like one of the most, you know, successful, uh, leaders that we've known in our world. Nick Clason (36:28): And he did that because he knew it was good for his brain. Good for that rhythm of rest. And it made him a better leader. Exactly. So, yep. Yeah. So cool. All right guys. Well that is it for today. Uh, just some hacks, some thoughts. Um, again, like we said, your ministry will not be successful if you are not personally healthy a hundred percent. So be personally healthy, put the guardrails, the things that you need into place, um, figure out your rhythms, your hobbies, and the things that, um, work for you and are important to you. And, uh, don't, don't burn out because your church and the world and, uh, people, they, they need what you have to offer and so take care of yourself and uh, those other things will, uh, will be there when you come back. I promise any last parting thoughts. Matt Johnson (37:21): I have one thing that I wanted to talk about real quick, about last week's episode that you and I talked about as a correction, uh, we had talked about the TikTok water mark, and I wanted to correct everyone, myself, especially cause you and I talked. And it's something that changed very quickly is if you had that TikTok water, mark Instagram is going to suppress you now. So mm-hmm I wanted to just tell everyone don't do that. We'll have more tips in an upcoming episode about that. but just wanted to get on the record as quick as possible. Hey, we messed up there. Um, pull that. Don't put the water mark on Instagram, so Nick Clason (38:00): Yep. That's my fucked box. Yeah. Well, and, and if you listen closely, I was trying to disagree with Matt amicably, uh, live last Matt Johnson (38:07): Week. So, and we get into like, I read that article forever ago and I sent it to you and then I changed the article and I hadn't read it and I didn't do my due diligence there. So a lot of good lessons in it, but yep. Nick Clason (38:19): Well, and that just goes to show just how quick everything changes. So what, what works today at, you know, quote, unquote time of this recording? Like may not even still be treated yeah. Watch Matt Johnson (38:28): Next week the watermark is boosted. So let's just say, who knows? Nick Clason (38:34): Yeah. That's why all this is very in lifetime, very important. Like this is, you know, trends now, but especially with social media, I mean, they're always changing their algorithms and uh, you're, you're on borrowed space with them. So you have to play a little bit by their rules. Exactly. Matt Johnson (38:48): Yep. So I just wanted to give that correction real quick before we think goodbye to the audience. So. Nick Clason (38:54): Cool. All right guys. Appreciate it. Hey, follow us on Twitter. http://www.twitter.com/hybridministry we are online, at http://www.hybridministry.xyz and, uh, give us a subscribe, maybe a rating. That'd be incredible. I share this with a friend and we will talk to you guys next day.
In this episode Nick and Matt chat about discipleship, Gen Z, who recently revealed that 51% of them prefer online ONLY ministry, and how to wade into that sticky in between of in-person and online, some might even call it "hybrid!" Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00-2:15 Is Digital Discipleship Possible? 2:15-3:47 Aren't people tired of online? 3:47-5:05 Meet Gen Z 5:05-7:55 Are ministry and discipleship the same thing? 7:55-12:08 What does Hybrid Discipleship look like? 12:08-13:45 How can Hybrid not feel like COVID 2.0? 13:45-18:35 How to utilize online content to facilitate spiritual growth? 18:35-25:46 How to repurpose content you already have 25:46-28:20 The danger of ignoring Gen Z and Digital Discipleship 28:20-31:17 How to use your staff to create content 31:18-35:17 What does Gen Z want? 35:17-36:14 Outro TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Well, that's why I think it's a definition thing a little bit, right? Yeah. Cause like I said, I do think there's a life on life component of the social. Yeah. So, um, I think it's that's I think it's hybrid, so all right. Let's uh, let's get started. So we don't say all the good stuff before we start recording. Great. Well, everyone, welcome to another episode of hybrid ministry podcast today. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my friend, Matt Johnson. Good morning, Matt. How you doing mark morning? I'm doing great. How are you, Nick? Good, good. Hey, I wanted to talk today. Um, I just honestly have a conversation wondering is digital discipleship even possible. Um, and so I think that there's gonna be a lot of definitions that we need to kind of clarify, um, in order to have our conversation, but to sort of lay the foundation of this, Matt, there's a statistic out there that you continue to share with me that continues to blow my mind. So would you tell the people about gen Z and their preference of online discipleship? Matthew Johnson (01:06): Yeah. So something that we need to be very cognitive of is 51% of gen Z. Wanna do ministry online only Nick Clason (01:18): Crazy. Matthew Johnson (01:20): So that is the major that is more than half only wanna do online. Nick Clason (01:27): Yeah. Which is insane. What, and is there more, when you say online ministry, are there more clarifiers to that? Like what does that mean? What does that look like? Or is that just like a, Hey, would you prefer ministry online or in person? And they just clicked online? Matthew Johnson (01:43): Uh, so from my understanding is they were asked you want, would you rather be engaged with ministry only online, partially online or never online and 51% said only online that's and then I don't know, the, the other stat a hundred percent off my top of the head, but it was the other vast majority was hybrid and the in person only was definitely the lowest out of the three. Nick Clason (02:15): Yeah. Yeah. Dang. Okay. So here we are as pastors or ministry leaders or whatever, we are trying to navigate this world, this post COVID world, where we feel as though most people were kind of done and kind of tired with the online, the streaming and all that type of stuff. And so we're attempting to return. Um, and then we hear a stat like that, which it feels like it goes against our gut. Yeah. Right. Because we feel like everyone wants to be back. At least that's sort of the notion or everyone's tired of zoom or everyone's tired of streaming church services. So does that just mean that when we say everyone, we're not talking about generation Z in that place, or we're only speaking anecdotally to those that maybe only do wanna return, but we're not having conversations with people that are fine with a online, only version of ministry. Um, like what do you think's what do you think's going on with that? Cause I feel like there's a chance that people hear that and they, they don't believe it or they don't sense that to be true in their context. Um, and that just, it feels like it's an immediate like, well that that's outta touch. That's not real, but this is a, this, this is a recent study, right. This came out a couple months ago. It's not, it's not old. Yeah. Matthew Johnson (03:34): This is the most recent metrics. So, um, when people tell me, I don't believe that that's not real, they're going off of their gut and it's cuz we like we've talked about in previous episodes, the, the church has to evolve. Um, and that is a change is terrifying. So when I tell any church leader, Hey, this is what we're seeing. This is what we're hearing. And I need to remind everyone that's listening to this podcast, gen Z is getting older. Gen Z is soon gonna be the adults in your church before you know it. Well, Nick Clason (04:08): The, the, the oldest gen Z is like 20, 21, 22 years old now, Matthew Johnson (04:14): Right? Yes. So that's what, like, they're just getting older now. So sooner or later they're gonna be the adult con the young adult congregation and your church is gen Z. And like, we need to start reaching them. like, Nick Clason (04:28): Yeah. Well, cuz I remember, gosh, like two, three years ago I felt like in this, the podcast space, people were just starting to talk about reaching millennials. Mm-hmm like millennial, like I'm a millennial and I'm in my mid thirties almost. Yep. So like that, that train of like thinking of millennial is a young adult. Like they're not like millennials are, are a, the largest generation and the primary base of our workforce these days. Yeah. Now, you know like, so if, if you're just starting to think about millennials, it's time to just honestly shift that thinking to generation Z. Yep. Cause generation Z and millennials could not be more vastly D Matthew Johnson (05:05): Exactly. Nick Clason (05:07): So let's, let's talk about, um, what would you say Matt? Let's, let's just kind of create a working definition for the base of this conversation. Um, so 51% of generations you prefers online, only ministry is ministry and discipleship. Are they the same thing? Do you think? Matthew Johnson (05:29): I guess it depends on what your definition of discipleship is. Um yeah. Or your definition of ministry so, uh, I think discipleship of ministry could be the same thing, but I think in most churches there have definitely different definitions and pathways. Nick Clason (05:47): Yeah. And the goal of every church in some form or function is to fulfill the great commission of Jesus. I hope so. Which is to go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of son, holy spirit, and then teaching them to obey everything that I've commanded you. Yep. And then Jesus says, I'll be with you always, even to the very end of the age. And so discipleship the, the most basic definition. And I actually like kind of pairing evangelism with it, uh, because I think it takes the edge off of evangelism. So it goes from just hop. Someone says yes, to helping someone take a step closer to Jesus. Yep. Regardless of where they are preconversion post. But I think that helping someone take a step towards Jesus is discipleship, which is what evangelism is, except for. You're trying to have someone do that who maybe wouldn't identify themselves as a follower of Jesus just yet. Nick Clason (06:43): So how do you help someone in their discipleship journey to take a step closer to Jesus and can that be done digitally? Yeah. Or what are the ways in which we can Wade into that digitally or more better, right. Yeah. Hybrid. Uh, cuz I do think that if I look back, uh, if I look back on my journey as a follower of Christ, um, almost every pivotal moment, um, that has some sort of, uh, significant growth moment for me. I can tie a face to those time periods. Yeah. Right. Like my high school years, I think about my youth pastor, my college years, I think about my then girlfriend now wife, um, after that different mentors people have I've um, you know, connected with in ministry or other like youth pastors that I've networked with. Yep. And so there's been a very vital and important, um, you know, connection that takes place a human to connection. Uh, and so that feels like it completely opposes the ability for this to be done online. Yeah. So like let's just, let's chat through that. Like how could that be done in a hybrid sort of sense? Yeah. Love it. Nick Clason (08:05): So, um, with that in mind, like as I say that, what, what comes to your mind? What are your thoughts? What are your as a marketer? What are your responses to the, to that, you know, maybe opposition that you can't do this discipleship online, Matthew Johnson (08:18): Um, I'd say you probably have not strategized or thought about it enough. Um, and the reason I say that is because look at the success of you version, um, just look at the success of life church in General's online platform. so you're telling me that people that ha go to life church online, you know, every week super invested are not being discipled at all. And I'd say that's probably not accurate cuz I know people that have, you know, been saved through life churches, online platform and have done everything fully online with them. Mm-hmm I've also seen people as I worked at, when I worked at dare share and we developed our life in six words that be discipled completely remotely, cuz we had to do it in COVID from, I don't believe in Christ at all to, I believe in Christ to I'm making disciples all on a virtual platform, you just have to be intentional with it. You have to have the right resources, the right content, the right platforms. And uh, I'm not, and I'm not saying get rid of the, you know, the person to person connection at all. I'm just saying you don't necessarily have to do that in person at all. Nick Clason (09:30): Yeah. Well, and you can still have a connection with a person without it actually being in person. Exactly. It's gonna, it like to your point, it's gonna take some strategy and it's gonna take some intentionality, but one of the craziest things about me and my story is I started at the church that you and I both work at the first day of C. And so, uh, I, I went into the office for five hours and then I got sent home indefinitely and we live in Chicago. And so COVID is still happening here. Yep. unlike other parts of the country that pretty much blew it off altogether. Right. And so for the first several months I actually joined a small group, um, and met friends that I'm still friends with to this day. Yeah. But I didn't see them in person for almost three or four months. Nick Clason (10:16): Yep. And uh, it's actually funny because the leader of that, like I didn't lead it. I just joined a group cuz you know, Amanda, my wife and I like, we're new to this church and we're like, we just need to meet some people. This is the only way to do it right now. And the leader of that group was like, before I met you, I would've said it's impossible to make a relationship with someone virtually. Yeah. But because I only met you in COVID I realized how possible it was like we had, uh, we would do these like zoom groups and they, they were hosted by the church. Um, and so like we were in this, we would all log into the same zoom and then we'd break out into zoom, breakout rooms. Yeah. And then, uh, the, the church sanctioned time would end and our leader would send a second link and we would all jump on our own zoom call after like the church time slot had ended. Nick Clason (11:08): Yeah. And I remember one night we were on that zoom until like 11 or 1130 at night. Um, like, and it was supposed to be over at like eight. And so we were, we were all hanging out like just a cuz it's COVID and we were all bored and there's nothing else to do and we all missed humans. Yeah. Right. Um, but that, that's an example. And I think, I think that picture right there is how that could be the case. However, I think because of COVID or the, the triggering effect of even thinking about that again, that's what people are done with. Yep. Like I don't wanna do that again. Yeah. Right. And so even as I propose that, or even give that as an example, I can imagine if you're listening to this on a run or mowing the lawn or whatever, you're like, heck no, dude, I am done with that. That is over like I am out of that world. Yeah. Uh, so how does that exist now in 2022 or beyond? Yeah, because we don't, we don't wanna enter back into that weird world. Matthew Johnson (12:09): Yeah. So I think a great, okay. So a great example of how this works and how you can build relationships virtually is video games. So Nick, you know, I'm a pretty avid obvious video game player, the amount of people I know, and that I've met personally that have very deep friendships and they've only met each other on my call of duty so, yeah. Um, and I think it's the intentionality of just keeping those conversations going and you're doing a hobby together that you love and, um, uh, it's also entertaining and it gives you something to look forward to and, you know, it's all the psychological stuff also behind, um, you know, building relationships. So you can definitely make discipleship work virtually or hyperly if you're intentional about it. Um, and it doesn't happen well Nick Clason (13:02): In your point. Right. But your point right there was about relationships. So you, you and I just both proved that you can build a relationship. Yep. Digitally. Right. So then the question is, uh, if, if discipleship is super tied to a relationship, if, if that has to be a distinctive of discipleship, then it, it can be done. It just has to be done with intentionality. Matthew Johnson (13:30): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Nick Clason (13:33): Yeah. I cut you off. So I was gonna try and let you finish what you were saying. No, but I was trying to make the point that that was, that was, we both proved the relationship. So that's, if we're right again, like if we're saying discipleship has that relationship, then it's possible. Matthew Johnson (13:45): Exactly. And then on top of, okay. So if we define discipleship as, okay, I'm having a relationship with somebody and then I'm walking them through their relationship with Christ and I'm teaching them how to share Christ and live Christlike content is usually a huge key part, part of discipleship as you. And I know, I mean the amount of times I've been given a book by a mentor or, you know, mm-hmm, , uh, Hey, check out this ebook or this resource or this white page or whatever it is, this blog about whatever I'm struggling with or whatever I'm like going through in my walk of life. Um, we already know it was all done virtually , so you can get a Kindle book, you can get an electronic book, an ebook, as I said earlier, white pages are all digital now, um, you know, you can send someone a blog through an email or text message. So there's no reason why in my professional opinion that you cannot do discipleship totally virtually, but also in a hybrid approach. Nick Clason (14:49): Well, and to your point, right. Content in the great commission, Jesus said, baptizing them, all these things. And they said teaching them to obey everything and teaching, I, I think in my youth pastor opinion, I think sometimes we've made teaching the only component of discipleship and divorced that from some of the relational stuff. But if there's a relation, an established relationship that's already taking place, then that teaching or that mentorship or that whatever that content is, uh, that all can exist digitally. Yep. And I think that the, the unique advantage that we have as pastors and or church leaders is that we're actually already in the content making business. Yeah. You, you said a stat yesterday to me in the office about content marketing. What, Matthew Johnson (15:48): What was that? Yeah, so content marketing costs 62% less than traditional marketing. And it's, Nick Clason (15:54): What's an example of traditional marketing, Matthew Johnson (15:56): Um, ads, TV commercials, radio commercials, um, billboards. Um, so Nick Clason (16:05): 62% less cost. Matthew Johnson (16:07): Yep. So 62% less cost and it's three times as effective dang. So when you hear that stat, you go, okay. I have a church budget, so I don't have a lot of money. And I also don't wanna run commercials for my church. That's always kinda weird, but, but I could also create, you know, a blog about why discipleship's important and that's gonna be three times as effective anyways, as me putting an advertisement out on Facebook about, Hey, come to our discipleship class. Yeah. Why would you not do that? Nick Clason (16:43): Yeah, because at the end of the day, like whether you wanna call it marketing or evangelism or reaching people, like that's ultimately what we're all trying to do. Like this idea of waiting into this hybrid world is because all of us have a desire to help fulfill the great commission of Jesus. And we can walk into that space digitally in free and sometimes cases free borrowed spaces, like, uh, social media platforms or whatever, and create and offer some of this content marketing type stuff and, and reach people with, uh, the teachings of Jesus. Yep. Which, I mean, gosh, man, I have to, I just feel like if the apostle Paul is alive today, like I don't think he would be abandoning the, the means of digital that was available to him. That's available to us now. Yeah. Right. Cause what was he using then he was using paper and pen, which is his way to communicate with churches from a distance. Matthew Johnson (17:42): Exactly. Nick Clason (17:43): And because he chose to use that medium, we've actually been able to capture those and put those into our Bible and we still use them and learn from them thousands of years later. Yeah. Um, and so had he not used the means available to him then that wouldn't be that wouldn't be even possible for you and I today. And so we can help kind of facilitate that as churches. Like that's part of, we're all, like I said earlier, we are already in the content making business. And when we're in that like laser tunnel vision focus of create a sermon for Sunday morning that's content mm-hmm . So how could we, what are ways that you see that, that could, that kind of stuff could be repurposed, um, or like, Hey, we're church, church budget, limited staff, whatever. How can we repurpose some of this content to offer teaching and discipl ballistic resources for the people that are attending our churches. Matthew Johnson (18:38): Yeah, absolutely. So good, easy thing you can do is you take your sermon, you find main topics that you guys like to talk about. So let's, as an example, let's say anxiety, depression, love, and, um, hope like let's say we had those four topics that we're thinking of as a category of shareable content. Cause we know people are searching for those four things. And then, um, take your hour or 30 minute sermon, find a two minute clip that talks about love, cut that out, make that part of your love category, your anxiety, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Now I have content that's based off of these four topics that people are searching for. And that we know people are struggling with. I have short form content, you know, minute and a half, two minutes, maybe even less that I can share with people. And I can repurpose all that content on all our social media. Matthew Johnson (19:31): So you can start with YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, um, and even take the audio of the entire sermon and make a podcast with it. Now you have five content channels that you're putting content onto that is targeted towards people that are looking for certain topics. And what that does is now you've created your digital platform. You're building trust with your congregation. You're also reaching people that are not being reached and it's all done by stuff you've already written and you're planning on presenting to your congregation. So it's not really extra work other than you have to slice and splice everything that you've got. Nick Clason (20:14): So like, is there, um, would you then say, even if you took that the audio of a sermon or something like that, uh, would there be value in taking that audio to a place like rev.com, getting it transcribed for a few bucks? Um, and then you could post the actual, uh, words like the actual, the it'd be an entire manuscript essentially of your sermon, um, on your website and then that would add to increased searchability. Matthew Johnson (20:45): Absolutely. Yeah. Right. All words are now search terms on your website that you just added for your sermon mm-hmm and rev, you know, uh, I don't know a little cost of rev, but I know a lot of the cost of these are like 80 cents a minute. So doesn't usually cost that much. Nick Clason (21:02): Yeah. And rev is, cheaper's like 50 cents, if you do like the, the bot one I'll see. Great. Yeah. You know, so it's got some, yeah, it's got some errors that you'll get with it. Right. But the fact of the matter is like it it's still gonna produce most of your words or if you're already a manuscript style, preacher, just copy and paste that. Matthew Johnson (21:18): Yeah. And make that downloadable. And also now you have another piece of content where here's the host note or here's the pastor notes from the week. So , mm-hmm, Nick Clason (21:27): mm-hmm yeah. And you can do that. Uh, like, so one of the things that, that we were doing in our student ministry is we had a weekly, um, weekly, like YouTube show that we created, which sounds so crazy. And so not to get caught up in the weeds of that, cuz you might be thinking like, what the heck are you talking about but we basically had have like decentralized small groups. Um, and so, uh, we would use a video and we created just a show out of it. We'd use a video to, to supply the content for our groups that are meeting in living rooms or on campus or whatever, all throughout the week, every week had a theme. And then of course every week had a teaching topic. And so what I would do as a social media person on our student team was I'd look at the week from Sunday to Sunday. Nick Clason (22:13): And I would just do all kinds of different stuff that was both promoting and talking about the theme. So if it was like sports week, we'd do like sports trivia stuff like on Instagram stories. And that would help sort of like remind what the theme is or whatever. But then once, once the show dropped on Wednesday, we would use, uh, pieces and clips of that content that would be on like Instagram reels or TikTok. Um, we would have recaps, we would have like photo recaps, like all kinds of stuff. Right? So like you can almost do that same thing with like a Sunday morning experience. If you're in a sermon series on the fruit of the spirit and this week was the love week mm-hmm you can, you can splice all that stuff up into every day, a recap of the sermon or something like that. On Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, um, you're posting the audio, you're posting the manuscript. You're putting all that stuff out on your website and all of that is just repurposing content. Exactly. So if you're, if, if I'm a pastor and I'm hearing this strategy, my, my rebuttal to that would be okay, but like my people already heard that on Sunday morning. So all is all of this. Just gonna be like a retread of that information. Like don't they want new content. Matthew Johnson (23:30): No um, some people are gonna want new content, but I will. Okay. I'll challenge. I would challenge you. Okay. Ask your congregation after you're done. What did, give me remember everything I just said or what you also get is I get this a lot in our comments and on, uh, talking to people when we're at church, what was that thing that, um, PT said again there, um, it was so good. Like see that's the content. And if I post that, it becomes shareable. They'll share it with their friends. Mm-hmm and that's the whole goal is you want people to spread the word of who you are. Yeah. And the best way to do that. Who Jesus. Yes. Who Jesus is. So the best way to do that is to use the content that you're creating that is shareable. Um, and that's just gonna spread the word and it doesn't matter if they've heard it already, if it's already shareable and especially if it was it powerful, cuz they're gonna share it again and they're gonna like it again. And mm-hmm, also in four weeks, they're gonna forget so Nick Clason (24:32): Well. And, and you know, again, think about this. We talked about this in our last podcast, but you version, what if you were doing like a series through the fruit of the spirit and like on Monday or Sunday at church or something, you're like, Hey, let's all read this you version, plan on love and scan this QR code or whatever. And as a church, let's read it together. Let's comment on it together. Let's build one another up and then let's come back next week and we'll do the joy week, you know, or whatever, whatever that is. And so even in that, you can make whatever you are that that's unique, different custom content. It's under the same like umbrella topic. Right. But then you can, so if you were at church on Sunday and you are one of those faithful people that is at church four weeks a month, uh, which is definitely out of the norm, there are ways to make it where it's not just so repeatable. Nick Clason (25:26): Yeah. But you're right. People, people forget. So, so if, despite, despite what we think, right? Like despite if we agree or disagree that, that discipleship online discipleship in a hybrid world is even possible. It's what generation Z is looking for and asking for mm-hmm and to your point, they are, uh, they're here. Yep. You know, they are, they're graduating college now and they're the type of people that you're going, that your church is gonna be looking to reach one day or another. Because if we don't, if we don't, they will not be in our church in a couple of years, if we choose to ignore reaching them. And that's a terrifying thought. But the fact of the matter is if we don't start catering some of what we're doing to the generation that's up and coming, they will, they will choose to not be a part of our churches anymore. Matthew Johnson (26:22): Yep. Yeah. And something we also gotta remember is they're gonna be having kids. They're gonna raise their kids, not in the church and then their kids raise their kids, not a church. So it's just going to be this ripple effect that we definitely need to get ahead of and start thinking about. And we also know that seven, I think it's, what is it? Seven outta of 10 people come to Christ before the age of 18. So yeah. Nick Clason (26:48): Yeah. That, that stat alone is why I'm a youth pastor. Matthew Johnson (26:50): So yeah. So like, you know that we have to reach them where they are when they're young and we need to reach them because they are getting old so mm-hmm Nick Clason (27:00): And I think the terrifying thing in all of this is that it's breaking down our standard archetype of what church has looked like and what, what, uh, I don't know what we're used to and, and how we staff. Yes. You know, like we staff to produce and program a weekly service. And so talking about what we're talking about really changes the game. Matthew Johnson (27:31): Yep. Nick Clason (27:33): Like it really, it's a completely different, um, it's a completely different look. Exactly. And, and no one's really doing that. You know, there's not really a good model out there. And to, to your point, one of your favorite things is the church tends to lag behind about 10 years and so marketers are already on this content marketing thing and churches are just now starting to, starting to think about it and talk about it. Yeah. And so what are the, like, you know, you're, you're in charge of marketing and our church. What, what are the types of things that you need on a marketing team or the types of pieces of content that you'd be looking for in order to, to do something like this in order to run this sort of like model that you're looking for, um, in a, in a effective way, because like I said, I think it's a little bit where it's gonna require us to redeploy some of our, our current resources, you know, including staff and, and dollars and hours spent on certain tasks or whatever. Matthew Johnson (28:31): Yeah. So all the video content we've talked about is something that I think everyone should start doing right now. And it's just great content in general. Um, on top of that, so I'll give a more advanced example of something we just did, which was, we decided that we wanted to create an ebook for our community. That was a 101 re 101 things to do with your kids this summer. And Nick, you were a huge part of creating the ebook, um, with like writing the content and everything. And the whole point of this ebook was to reach out to the community and give them a bunch of ideas of stuff. They can go out and enjoy this summer. Mm-hmm, all through all the different neighborhoods and communities around us. Now that ebook did way better than I ever expected it to. Um, I knew it would do well cause eBooks tend to do well, but people were starving for this kind of content. So we had over a thousand downloads in two weeks with over 400 of those being brand new people that don't go to our church. so that's crazy. Um, Nick Clason (29:37): So let's, let's talk real fast. Okay. I don't wanna, I don't wanna like out outprice anyone or anything like that, but like how much you said it, it was 39 cents. Matthew Johnson (29:47): Yeah. 39 cents Nick Clason (29:48): Per, per click or something like that Matthew Johnson (29:49): Per conversion. So it was 39 cents per person to download the ebook. Nick Clason (29:54): So then what did we, do? You know what we paid in that in totality? Matthew Johnson (29:58): Yeah. So we paid about, um, total with both ads that we ran about $600 and that was, um, two different ads. One was a lead gen ad, which was 39 cents. And one was an awareness ad, which that's a whole different ball game we can get in, in a different conversation. Nick Clason (30:17): Sure, sure. But I'm just saying, cuz you know, you say something like that, like that has over a thousand downloads. I, I would imagine most PS are salivating mm-hmm after something like that. Yep. Right. Um, and so, and it's not like $600 might sound expensive, but in the land of Facebook marketing, you're saying that's one of the cheapest conversions you've ever seen. Matthew Johnson (30:37): Oh yeah. Absolutely. If I'm under $4 on a conversion, I'm usually happy so when I've hitting since of a conversion, I'm ecstatic. Um, and on top of that, like the, we saw the ebook directly correlate to probably a higher number in our vacation Bible school this year. So cause we add vacation, we added our vacation Bible school and the ebook is something we can do this year. And we had our biggest vacation Bible school since COVID and maybe ever in the history of the church. So mm-hmm Nick Clason (31:09): so that's a, that's a thing that's easy that you can do for families. Yeah. I'm like, Hey, here's something to do for your kids. What does gen Z want? Matthew Johnson (31:20): Oh, that's a good question. Matthew Johnson (31:23): Fin Z wants spiritual content that entertains them. Um, you and I know that gen Z is asking some of the deepest questions I've ever heard spiritually. They do not stray away from hard conversations at all. Mm-hmm like some of the stuff I get asked by gen Z, I would've never asked in my entire life to my youth pastor or to any mentor I had and they just blatantly come out and ask it and they also want to be entertained. Mm-hmm what I mean by that is it's not like you need to be this clown delivering your content. Um, what I mean, Nick Clason (32:07): No, I, I would even argue as like student pastors, like that day of the, the gregarious, like attractional, I'm gonna swallow a goldfish. Yeah. Like that's kind of a turn off to Matthew Johnson (32:19): JY now. It is. Yeah. When I say entertain, I mean like tell the content, well, be communicated, be open. Just tell a good story. As you're talking through this and not like, Hey, this is a story, but like the story structure and we should do a whole episode on what I'm talking about when we talk about that. Um yeah. But would, uh, so content that, and then do that content that's short, short form and usually video. So the more video content you can create for them that is geared towards their heavy questions. Like don't stray away from answering some of the hard questions that, you know, might politically arise either side of the aisle, you know, that's okay. Cause those are the questions they're asking and you need to give them biblical truth when it comes to that. So, Nick Clason (33:10): And that's, that's scary to do as a church to create a video. Yeah. And, and put that out there. Yeah. Cause you, it does become a little polarizing. Matthew Johnson (33:17): Yeah. And you have to obviously weigh in on, um, way the pros and cons of like releasing that content. But I will also argue that if you have a bunch of like negative comments or negative, like pushback from a video, you need to like stray into that. And we've seen that companies that weigh into the negative and reply to negative comments have a higher trust value with their consumer base. Nick Clason (33:46): Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. It's actually, it's, it's interesting that you say that, cuz just recently, um, we got, uh, like our curriculum for our student ministry. Yeah. And one of the series was like called how to friend. Um, and that's what we were gonna launch our like small group cycle with. Yeah. And in our discussion I was like, Hey guys, like, I'm fine with that. I think that's a good, a good like thing to talk about. But I came across this study, um, on like mental health, um, from, from some friends of mine that work at a church here in Chicago that called the chapel. Um, and so I was like, you know, I, I think that might be a little more, uh, what we should talk about or what maybe our students are needing to hear than another series about how to be a good friend. Nick Clason (34:35): Yeah. And I think a lot of times that's sort of the approach we take in student ministry or in ministry in general is like, Hey, here's a, here's a series on, on how to display love. Yeah. Like, yeah. That's yes, that's important, but you're right. Like they're, they, they already want to love, they're one of the most inclusive generations that we've ever seen in our entire lives. And so if that's the case, like we, we like, we don't need to, we don't need to Wade into that. We need to Wade into the, the mental health conversation. We need to Wade into the gender conversation. We need to wait into the fill in the blank. The stuff that really matters. Not that, or at least it really matters to Matthew Johnson (35:15): Them. Yes, exactly. Nick Clason (35:17): So, yeah. Yeah, man. Well, this was a great conversation again. Appreciate your time. Appreciate everyone listening. Any last final thoughts Matt, as we, uh, wrap this conversation up. Matthew Johnson (35:29): Yeah. I would, uh, challenge. Whoever's listening to this to go create one piece of digital content. This, if that's a blog, a new, a one off video, whatever that looks like and figure out how to deliver that to your people. Nick Clason (35:46): Yeah. That's good. That's a good challenge. All right, everyone. Appreciate you listening, please. Please give us a little subscribe a rating. If you found this helpful share with friend on or online, appreciate you guys and.
Nick and Matt discuss specific and individual best practices for Digital and Hybrid Ministry. Because there are a lot of platforms out there, what should we actually be doing on those platforms? Like Church website, Church App, Instagram, Facebook or TikTok? And what should we do about Discord? Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz FREE SOCIAL MEDIA CHECKLIST Would you like the FREE Social Media Posting Checklist we created for this episode? Click here to download now! (https://ab2eadf4.sibforms.com/serve/MUIEAKLiZ7yCPQPoeiR9RlA1tGEReJFEhiE74E9-JJQiDXZsfrfDQoKa8UKjPbJB9Gmt74wxHP-3gqPXc7rMNzCEbn19ifFK95ZG6_VFVURylY71V7mZ9jfzoAQQaAJRbmp7GwFNeqtWws5GWNzCSwayrQupSi8uSHztiOIuPjVNKoVoNPq9vUPLJ2cndSP9ISloVaWTmKRJFL0E) TIMECODES 00:00-01:15 Announcement and FREE giveaway 01:15-5:26 The New Normal of Church 5:26-13:03 Best Church Website Practices 13:03-15:55 Should our Church get an app? 15:55-20:00 How can our church use YouVersion? 20:00-24:57 Facebook best practices 24:57-29:38 Instagram best practices 29:38-32:00 TikTok best practices 32:00-34:42 How about Discord? 34:42-36:51 Texting Best Practices 36:52-38:13 Outro and Conclusion TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Think that they were gonna, uh, keep it going. I thought that I thought that was gonna be it. Matthew Johnson (00:07): Yeah. That one more season left. Nick Clason (00:09): Yeah. So it like when they did, which it's like the first season that they've never resolved, you know? Yep. Matthew Johnson (00:15): They said like, it was the first time they've never done that, so Nick Clason (00:18): Yeah. Well, Hey everybody. Welcome back to, uh, hybrid ministry, the podcast. I am your host, Nick Clason alongside my good friend. Matt Johnson. How you doing this morning, Matt? Matthew Johnson (00:34): Doing good, man. I can't complain got a cup of coffee and uh, it's a beautiful Friday morning. Nick Clason (00:39): Yeah, we're ready to roll. You know, what's so fun. Uh we were in a meeting yesterday about this exact topic, like in our, in our church talking about the new normal of church, you know, a little bit. Um, yeah, which I think is, is interesting cuz uh, I can't remember how you said it, man. It was so good. You were saying like the way that we've done church for so long, it, it has to shift and it has to shift into a hybrid type of world. What, like what do you mean by that? What did you, what were, what were kind of your like thoughts going into that statement? Matthew Johnson (01:16): Yeah, so we, the church as a whole has had two main philosophies over the last, let's just say 60 years, it's gone back obviously much further than that, but uh, here it's been straight to seat. What I mean by that it's like find someone on the street, they can come to church and they can take a seat in for Sunday service. And then probably since the internet age, I'd say probably in the last 15 years, maybe 20, I, that might be pushing it, let's say 15 to 10. Cause the church is, um, always a little bit on the back. End of everything is sight to see. And, um, what that means is like, Hey, you come to our website and then you can come to our church, but now we're in this new world, which what the heck is next for us. like, uh, what is, what is post COVID look like? What does this hybrid approach? And we know the church has to evolve in some fashion just based off of where technology is going. No matter how much we all say that we hate technology, this is the world we live in now. So that's really what I've been, just trying to figure out like where should we evolve? Nick Clason (02:29): Yeah. And I like, one of the best examples I ever heard of, of hybrid was like a department store. Um, I was, and, and I, it came to fruition for me a couple weeks ago and I was walking through, Lowe's like physically walking through the Lowe's department store. I was in person, all the things, but I couldn't find what I was looking for. And so as a typical millennial, instead of stopping and asking an associate where to find the thing, I downloaded the Lowe's app on my phone, searched it. And it told me exactly where to go. Um, yep. And so I used a digital tool in a physical environment and I think that's sort of what we're talking about is this, this hybrid approach. And I don't think either one of us is necessarily advocating for getting rid of everything. That's why I really like this word, this word hybrid, because it's, it's not either or it's both and Matthew Johnson (03:27): Exactly. Yep. And Nick Clason (03:29): So that's, that's what I wanna talk about today is what, what specifically can we do? Like let's get nitty gritty, get down to some of the, like specifics of some of these platforms and some of these best practices. And I think, you know, just shooting straight, like we have ideas and we have data to back up some of this stuff, but we don't have all the answers. And, and I don't think any church is really hitting it, you know, bating a thousand and hitting all these things a hundred percent outta the park either, you know? So like, yeah, same is true for us. So these are just things in our brains that are rattling around and things we wanna, you know, kind of try where we wanna start. So. Matthew Johnson (04:09): Yep. Absolutely. Nick Clason (04:10): All right. So let's just talk through like, um, LA on episode one, we talked a little bit about this. Um, but like if, if you have nothing, you know, um, is the best place to start, Matt, would you say like a website, like getting your own, your own domain, your own place that, that you own, that you're not on like borrowed social media space or anything like that, your own website, is that the best place to start? And then if so, um, what do you like, what are some best practices as it pertains to web these days? Matthew Johnson (04:44): Yeah, so I would say the best website could be one of the best places to start. Uh, I'm not gonna say it's like a blanket statement. Like everyone should start there, but I will say if you don't have a website and you have the means and, um, energy to make the website, you definitely need to get on that. And, uh, websites are so easy to make right now if you like square space and WICS, you need even WordPress plugins, like Elementor, um, make building a website very easy where you don't need to hire developers and have a huge upfront cost anymore. Um, your website, like we're saying earlier in the episode is, was originally like this, you visit our site and then you come to the church mm-hmm so site to see, um, it was more of probably a front porch approach, um, to the church, uh, as in, okay, I'm, I've entered into your fray and now I'm gonna come all the way in your house. Matthew Johnson (05:51): Yeah. The website now can function as multiple. And the first thing it's gonna function through for is I I'll call it your window. Um, and that's the sense that I'm just viewing in to what your church holds. And then I will decide just from the viewing in, if I even want to attend online, if I wanna check out your social, if I want to check out your campus. Um, so those are all the questions that you're your first time person is gonna be faced with. Um, especially as you're trying to reach lost people, the more approachable your website is the better because you want people to not feel intimidated to come check you out. So when I think of a website, the first thing I always tell everybody is 90% of what you wanna put on your website. You don't need to put on your website. Matthew Johnson (06:46): um, the reason I say that is cuz everyone thinks they just need to put everything in the kitchen sink on their website. Um, and Donald Miller who, uh, is just kind of become a marketing guru, um, has really coined this term of like story branding, your website, story, story, branding in general, your, um, your church, whatever your company is. But I always love his idea of the website, which is a lot of the junk that you put on your website belongs to the junk or on your website. Hmm. So what that means is like, it all be, you can put it on your website, but it should not be easily accessible and it should be at the bottom of the website where if you wanna find it, you can find it, but that's not what you're trying, you're there for. So when you go to someone's website, the first thing I should see is what you want me to do. Matthew Johnson (07:38): Um, and that's going to vary church church. So, uh, at our church it's uh, Hey, attend online right now or, um, here's the church services mm-hmm um, is that the best course of action? I don't know. Um, there's a lot of philosophies, uh, and really you should only have one decision. So if you're whole idea says hyper approach, I would just say a 10 0 9 should be your first call to action. If you had that capability mm-hmm so you gotta simplify your website, get rid of the junk on your website and then make your website purposeful. So what are you trying to tell people as they learn about you? Like I said, your window, it's like a window shopping. So it is really easy, Nick, for you or I to go and Google type in Christian Church near me and find probably 50 churches within 20 miles of us. Matthew Johnson (08:39): Mm-hmm and we can go and look at all these churches, all their beliefs, who they are, where they're at, what they're teaching and we can window shop used to not be like that. You used to have to go into church or the window shopping was more, oh, these people have this service time, so I'll go check them out. now I can see everything about you. Uh, I can see everything your pastor has probably ever said. So you need to be very cognitive of that as you're building out your window, your website on what is it that you're trying to communicate about you about your church? Nick Clason (09:16): Yeah. And then like the, the, the nerdier you get into that, right. There's things like search engine optimization, words and titling and, and things like that. That you're also gonna want to start to explore at least get a handle on as you're building those things out. Right? Matthew Johnson (09:34): Yeah, absolutely. So then you can start once you define what you want your website to be, you can really get nitty gritty with, um, how we're gonna title everything and how you're gonna lay it all out. Um, what the proper course of action is, how you leading me to those calls to action. That's all super important stuff that you'll like, like a story brand is a great option to kinda learn how to do that. Um, but also just being able to like use Google trends, you just go to Google trends.com. You can type in like words that people are searching. And if you really wanna start like investing in some stuff, you can look at like SCM rush or href, which are both about a hundred dollars a month where you can actually look up search terms that people are using for your website specifically, and also what Google is weighing highest. Matthew Johnson (10:27): Hmm. Um, and what that's gonna do is, uh, if you, if you're like, okay, we're at the point that our church is growing, but we want to grow more and we want to reach new people. That's your best option to do that? Cause Google it, it's wild to think about what Google did. So, um, back in the days of when Yahoo was around, Yahoo was literally ran by librarians. Like you had a room full of librarians that would archive pages. So you'd go to Yahoo, you type in, um, churches near me or whatever, or, uh, um, looking for, you know, a Christian sermon. And it's only what the librarians have gotten through and archived. Um, that's to obviously change now, but that was back in the early days of the internet. And then Google came around and said, Hey, we're gonna make this automated through search terms through our search engine. And those will be weighed differently. And, uh, algorithm is constantly changing. So the best way for you to find out, to get more recognition is for you to find out what people in your area are looking for. Um, and then just make your website, your content targeted towards them. Nick Clason (11:41): Hmm. Yeah. Okay. So, so that's website, um, let's talk about app apps. Yep. So, you know, like if you and I are using our cell phones, most of us are interacting with people on our cell phones, through various apps. And so do you think that that's a platform worth looking into worth investing in for a church? I mean, it's, it feels like it would be a pretty hefty cost. And then, you know, if it's not a hefty cost, that means that you're probably getting a pretty basic, uh, service from a company that your app is gonna look, um, much like any of the other apps that are out there. And, uh, it's gonna look, it's gonna be very similar to, to your church's website. So couldn't, we just use a very like phone friendly, mobile friendly website. That's gonna, that's gonna play well on people's cell phones, as opposed to trying to get them to adopt an entire app or like, talk, talk me through this. What, what should we do with that? Should we do anything with that? Matthew Johnson (12:45): Yeah. Great, great question. So, um, Matthew Johnson (12:52): Yes, I will say the best course of Ash action is to just make, um, a mobile friendly website. Uh, so yeah, my professional opinion, the app should really be an interactive way to engage with your church, your congregation, your content, whatever it looks like. So it's not a front porch anymore. Like you're involved, like you're, I want people to come to our church and download our app so they can be as directly tied with everything we have going on. Hmm. But that's not for the wide people. So I'm not going out to people on Google or on our Facebook pages and going, Hey, download our app when I'm just trying to get them to come check out who we are like, that is, that's a deeper step. Like I'm asking you to put me on your phone forever. Mm-hmm I would say, yeah, mobile friendly website is the best place to start. Matthew Johnson (13:55): Then let's say you are a larger church and you're really trying to figure out what's next for your digital platform and what you should do online. Then I think the app is a great course of action of different things you can do on it that are not what your website does. mm-hmm so that's the key. The app cannot just be an extension of your website. Just have a mobile website at that point. Like your app should be, Hey, this is where all our small groups are facilitated at. Hey, this is, has a interactive map for us or, Hey, this is where all our content is. Or we do our prayer studies and there are Bible studies that'ss own world that is not directly correlated to your website. Nick Clason (14:36): Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so moving on this, one's one of my favorites. I'm not sure if I've optimized it yet, but as a youth pastor, this is one of the things I love to try and, uh, both create, uh, but also challenge our like small group leaders and students to participate in. Uh, it's the U version Bible app, you know, they have a, they've built in some kind of social media components to it recently. Um, and one of my favorite things to do, and it was a thing that, you know, I, I think, uh, really came to a height during the pandemic and stuff was reading like devotional plans together. And I thought that was a great way to, to do spiritual practice in the other, um, hours of the week that weren't like our programming time for like small groups to do together, whatever, uh, obviously, you know, like the people at life church, they're the ones that put you version together and are continuing to run it and everything. Uh, are there any things that we can do as a church to optimize those better? Um, or, you know, think about them creatively to, uh, get our people to be en engaging with the Bible, uh, in that way, through that platform. Matthew Johnson (15:54): Yeah, absolutely. I love you version and what the team at life church has been able to kinda accomplish with that platform. Um, I think a great use of your version is finding content that is relevant to whatever you have going on in your church or as you, and I know if you wanna start getting, you know, a little crazier developing content for you version. So, um, both are great avenues, but I would just start with curating content on new version that it can actually facilitate conversations and you can create prayer request in it and, uh, um, be going through studies together. And it's just a good way to nurture and continue to have people think about your church other than on a Sunday. Yeah. And that's a big key of everything we're talking about is how do we get people to, you know, be engaged with church with your church, not more than one day a week, and as we know, more than one day a month, so, Nick Clason (17:00): Right. Yeah. Yeah. That, and that's interesting that you say that whole thing about, uh, once a month, that is, that's what we're seeing, right? One in every four, uh, an average attender or an engaged attender is attending one in every four weeks, which to your point is what you're saying is one, one once a month, which is why I think this hybrid approach is so like important. Like it's such an important thing because if we are only discipling people on the weeks that they attend church, that's 12 times a year, 12 hours a year, there is nothing in my life that I care about that I'm only giving 12 hours a year to yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so if faith is important and faith matters, it needs to happen more often. And yeah, like all of this right is an ownership step that we need to try and help facilitate for those people that are attending our church. Nick Clason (18:00): But the reality is is that you and I, as people who work at churches, uh, we've only made that priority a thing that we do once a week for our weekend services, you know, and we're just trying to, to challenge everyone to think outside of that box. Exactly. And to say, okay, great. Like we're already doing that. We're not throwing that baby out with the bath water, but what are the other ways in which we can disciple our people through the means and the, the avenues that they're already using through their cell phones and through online and through digital. So I think in a, in most cases now I wanna talk social media for a minute because in most cases, I think when people come to this idea of hybrid or digital, that's the first thing, right. That comes to everyone's brain is like, oh, so you're Spanish again, social media. Um, and that's true to an extent. Um, and so let's talk through some social platform. So the first one is, is Facebook, what is best practice on Facebook? Matthew Johnson (19:04): So Facebook you're gonna be reaching people that are probably 35 and older mm-hmm , um, usually, um, it's actually probably even older now it's more in your forties or older. So if your congregation's a little bit older, like that's a great platform to start navigating on. And what the real big use of Facebook I can see now is the Facebook groups, which we had talked about. Mm-hmm , um, in a earlier, earlier episode. Um, but really just getting some Facebook's groups going that you can actually create community that have people interacting with each other, and it's not a sole reliance on you. Um, also we just know Facebook has some massive plans with, you know, becoming meta and what web three looks like. So I just think it's always gonna be a part of our Zeki, no matter what. Um, and I think it's gonna probably morph into more of this web three platform, which then you start getting crazy with like virtual reality and, you know, the metaverse and stuff. But I, I would not worry about that yet. Um, I would just stick to, let's create some Facebook groups. Let's do, uh, let's have a strategy behind when we're posting content and why we post content. Um, I always say start with the why of what you're doing. Um, and if you're just using Facebook to promote stuff, stop doing that. , Nick Clason (20:30):
Matthew Johnson (20:31): Just, let's be, uh, more creative and cognitive, uh, what people want and promotional stuff is just gonna fall in deaf ears. So, uh, Nick Clason (20:40): So let's, let's, let's actually talk about that for just a second, because I think that's, that is a, a standard default for a lot of churches is, um, just create, uh, like it is, it has like another billboard or another avenue to announce your things. Um, so if you're not, if we're in the event business as a church a little bit, like, you know, it's not events more spiritual than an event, but yeah. Like we're hosting an in person thing, uh, that feels a lot like an event. What are we, what should we be doing then on social media, on Facebook, if we're not posting it as events, what are things that we can be putting on there that people are actually gonna want to engage with? Matthew Johnson (21:23): Yeah. Great question. So this is something I've been wrestling with, um, from the marketing world for the last few weeks, actually. So I think we, as people that are communicating, we, uh, we need to get away from the industrial realistic nature of marketing. So what I mean by that is we're trading like everyone, like their cog and this machine of communication. Um, when we know every single person is unique and different. So what is the content that people are gonna engage with? Well, the biggest content that anyone will engage with is story based content mm-hmm . So tell the stories of the people at your church. Hmm. Tell the stories of what your church has been doing for your community. Not about, um, it doesn't only have to be about, Hey, join us Sunday, but like share when you guys are going to the food pantries and serving share when you guys are having block parties and, uh, the life change that people will experience at your church because we know that's what people wanna be involved with. We know that isolation, loneliness, and anxieties at an all time high and that people are searching for community mm-hmm and relationships. So share those stories and you're gonna get a lot more engagement than just, Hey, join us Sunday, or Hey, check out this worship that we did. Um, yeah. That stuff is fine, but that should not be the only thing you do. Nick Clason (22:52): Yeah. I think, uh, I mean, think about this, right? Like why do you get on social media? Like mm-hmm, I get on social media to be entertained, uh, to laugh or, you know, maybe to be inspired. Yeah. But I don't get on there to learn about events. Yep. Almost, almost never. Matthew Johnson (23:11): Exactly. Nick Clason (23:12): And so, you know, and I think, you know, we're gonna get to in a second talking about TikTok and Instagram, uh, but I think that's Mo that's where a lot of people are kind of going to, you know, it's like that short form video content, cuz it's, it's funny, you know, that's that's I, when I share something, I share something that's funny, you know, exactly. Or maybe a little bit inspirational, but for the most part, something that I think is funny so let's, let's move that way then. So let's talk about Instagram. Um, Instagram is obviously owned by MEA, which is owned, which is the parent company of Facebook and all that stuff. So should your Instagram strategy be similar to that of Facebook? Should it be identical to that of Facebook? Because you can do that right. Where you can post on Instagram and duplicate that exact same content over to your Facebook page. Um, is that the best practice for Instagram right now? Or what are you seeing out there? Matthew Johnson (24:04): No, so you definitely can just, you know, post straight from Instagram to Facebook, that's the easy way out, but you'll probably see one of your platforms as doing better than the other. And the reason is, is cuz it's drastically different demographics on both platforms. Like I said, Facebook is older, you're gonna have, let's just say 40 and up Instagram is gonna be your millennial. Yeah. They're starting to get weary on the, on just the Instagram algorithm. Um, so people are using Instagram. They're not liking as much, they're scrolling more. Um, so that is, uh, something you also be need to be cognitive of. So really your Instagram content should just be strong piffy storytelling content that is meant to either entertain or make me feel. And honestly the win on Instagram right now is short form video. Nick Clason (24:58): Yeah. And that's very TikTok adjacent, correct? Matthew Johnson (25:03): Yep. Yep. Nick Clason (25:04): So what's so is there best practice then on if you're posting content to TikTok that's a minute or under 30 seconds or under, should you also then be posting that same thing on Instagram reels should or should those be individual pieces of content? Matthew Johnson (25:22): So right now, as we're recording this, I would say post your TikTok content on Instagram with your TikTok watermark on Instagram, cuz the TikTok demographic is gonna be your 18 to 25, 18 to 30 year olds. So you are still hitting a very similar demographic. Um, and you can kind of kill two birds with one stone. Uh, but TikTok should be your more entertaining, fun stuff. Um, I will say it's pretty hard to go viral inspirational on TikTok. It's a lot easy to go viral on Instagram with uh, inspirational. So, Hmm. Nick Clason (25:59): So that's interesting that you say that before we, before we jump straight to TikTok, um, Instagram feed posts, Instagram story posts. Are there still value in those or are you saying double down on, on like reels and abandon those other things? Matthew Johnson (26:17): I would double down on reels and stories. So stories is still, um, a massive driving factor for people on Instagram. You'll actually see most people get on Instagram. And the first thing they do is scroll through, um, as many stories as they can. Now, what I will say to help you on Instagram is to go live on Instagram more. Mm um, so why I say that is cuz Instagram pushes that content higher still and you can get on front of people's feeds on their stories quicker if you go live. So if people aren't liking your content or they're not scrolling through your story, going live will help you get in front of their eyes more. Nick Clason (26:59): Now you now back to the, you talked about posting with your TikTok watermark. Are you, are you saying do that as a, as a way to promote and raise awareness that you do have a TikTok account? Matthew Johnson (27:13): Yep. So right now that is what they're recommending is that you post from TikTok to Instagram, with the TikTok watermark, cuz it shows that you're on TikTok and also Nick, you and I both know, um, content takes off quicker on TikTok and usually it takes off more virally on TikTok before it will Instagram. So I'll be scrolling through Instagram reels and I'll see a TikTok that I saw last week that already had gone viral. Yeah. And it's just cuz talk's algorithm is just next level crazy, which also has a lot of concerns behind it. But we could talk about that earlier. Nick Clason (27:51): Yeah. It's so interesting that you say that though. Cuz even, uh, even in my own experience, like I'm looking right now on our church, social media and everything that was first posted to TikTok and then posted to Rios has almost no views on, on Instagram, but it's doing well over on TikTok. And so that's been a, that's been a little bit of a thing to try and kind of navigate. So let's talk TikTok then for a minute, should we be on it? It feels like it's a place we sh you know, a lot of church people are maybe even scared of it. And so if we've been trending younger is TikTok the youngest of all the platforms that we're talking about. Matthew Johnson (28:30): So we're gonna talk about today. Yeah. It would be the youngest. So your demographic is gonna be that, um, 18 early or later gen Z to, uh, you know, 30, 25 to 30. So okay. Nick Clason (28:46): And, and best practice on there is like, we've been saying short form video. You can do trends, you can do maybe inspiring inspirational content, um, and also just humor. Right? Matthew Johnson (28:58): Yeah. TikTok is really good for that humor aspect. Like you can definitely do some inspirational stuff. Um, and it's also the hashtag feature of it is, uh, a great way to find other like minded tiktokers. Um, like I said, the algorithm of TikTok is very effective, but I also do understand the reservations behind TikTok with, uh, just everything behind it. So, um, but I will say that is where your younger audience is and if you wanna be reaching those people, you need to go there. Unfortunately. Nick Clason (29:29): And the thing that's so crazy that changes the AB the absolute game with TikTok is even as like, I look into our like specific analytics, I was looking at them yesterday. Um, the majority of, uh, people who watch your videos, um, at least ours are not followers of ours, right? Mm-hmm, , they're, they're people that discover us from like the four U page. Matthew Johnson (29:55): Exactly. Nick Clason (29:55): Which is, you know, so much different than the way that we've treated social over the years. And so in a lot of ways is TikTok, can it be an evangelistic tool? Can it be like a way to reach people that aren't connected to your church? Is that a good strategy for it? It feels like sort of the opposite of what we've been talking about with going hybrid. Matthew Johnson (30:15): Yeah. You definitely can reach people with TikTok and you just need to have a strategy behind where do you take someone from TikTok to this hybrid approach. And that's what, we're not seeing a lot of that right now of like, okay, you get people watching the videos on TikTok, but now what Nick Clason (30:31): Mm-hmm Matthew Johnson (30:32): Mm-hmm so you gotta give them that next call to action and take them to your church website or to your online platform, whatever that looks Nick Clason (30:38): Like. Yeah. All right. So this one's up for debate a little bit discord, is that a social media platform? What even is discord and why, why did you tell me to add it to our outline? Matthew Johnson (30:51): Great question. So discord is, um, I think you can probably consider it a social media platform right now, but what I love about discord is the aspect that you can create very curated, focused groups. Um, there's a lot of really cool stuff you can do on discord, and you can create different breakout rooms. Um, you can create different channels that people can talk about different stuff. So, uh, I, uh, have been involved with a couple of new Christian discords that people have been wanting me to help them, um, get going. So what you can do in discord is like this one that I'm in is like, there's a whole prayer request, channel Bible, verse channel, David stories, channel general chat. And it's really, um, and you can just break it down more and more and more like, you can create your, you, if you wanna do a sports league in it or whatever, you can do that. Matthew Johnson (31:50): And, uh, um, there's like a lot of fun stuff you can do in it. What's good about it is that you're getting all like-minded people in that discord together. Mm-hmm so you can actually talk about, Hey, we have X, Y, and Z going on in youth group also, here's where all our prayer request is. And here we're talking about fantasy and, um, you're getting your community built together in a very cohesive platform. And I will also tell you, is that your young people in your church are on discord? Hmm. Um, most of them are, especially if, uh, so like during the pandemic something I heard all the time, as we were trying to get everyone to go to teams and zoomed and, um, trying to do these virtual events, uh, there was all these kids that were telling me, why are you guys not just using discord? Matthew Johnson (32:37): We're already on it? Mm-hmm . And I was like, and I laughed, cuz I've been on discord for years, but I've always thought about it as a gaming thing, but it's more than a gaming thing. Now it's now a chat functionality that you can create your community in. So if you wanted to put your youth group in there, you could, if you wanted to put your women's ministry in there, you could, and learning curve is really easy for it. Hmm. And you have a captive audience that is interested in your, in your group, your culture and what you're doing. So whatever you communicate they're gonna be engaged with. Nick Clason (33:09): Yeah. That's interesting that you, that you say that the learning curve thing, cause I think that's probably everyone's biggest reservation, right. Is the introduction of a new platform. How hard is it gonna be to figure out? So, um, yeah. Great. All right, Matt, last one, text messaging. Uh, I recently heard that the open rate on a text message is 99%. Is that true? Matthew Johnson (33:35): Yeah, Nick Clason (33:36): That's crazy. So that has to be a platform that we should be using as churches, right? Matthew Johnson (33:43): Yeah, absolutely. Um, so texting is the best, one of the best ways to do communication period. Um, we know people reply to text messages and open text messages, um, way more than email as you just talked about with open rate. Um, also, uh, if people give you, if they trust you enough to give you their number to text, 'em the trust level with you and your church, um, is extremely high, which that tells me immediately is, oh, I can communicate, uh, differently with these people. Cause I've already built that trust bridge with them. Nick Clason (34:23): Mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. And again, to, to the point that we're making with all of this, right? So if we go back through web and app, you version social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, discord, and text messaging, every single one of those things exists in you and my pocket every single day. Yep. And so the, our people from our church are carrying the access to all of these things with them every single day of the week. And so I think as a church, it's a miss, right? If we're only, uh, talking to them once a week on Sunday, but then if we break that down, even more understanding that people are only coming to church once a month, we're only talking to them 12 times a year. Why would we not try to create connection, create discipleship, content, create inspirational things through the things that they're carrying around with them every single day of the week. Matthew Johnson (35:30): Exactly. Nick Clason (35:31): So, so that's what, that's the idea. Uh, this was very nitty gritty and, uh, you know, appreciate Matt, all of your marketing knowledge and demographic studies and everything that you have, man, cuz uh, I know the reason that, uh, the reason that I love having you on this is because you are just for me an absolute wealth of knowledge. So I hope that, uh, as everyone else who's listened to this, able to pick your brain, um, or just hear some of these things about all these different platforms is advantageous to them. Um, beneficial. So I appreciate, I appreciate that, man. Matthew Johnson (36:08): Yeah. Don't thank you. I appreciate it. It's been a blast and I hope everyone's going, uh, get something out of this. So Nick Clason (36:14): gosh, I can't imagine that they didn't so good. Hey again, thanks everyone for hanging out. Uh, feel free to subscribe. Give us a rating. If you find this helpful, share it with a friend. Um, you can follow along on Twitter at hybrid ministry and online at hybridministry.xyz Uh, but until next time we will talk to you all later.
Millennials and Gen Z are increasingly harder and harder to reach. And add to that the shifting trends of church attendance. The honest truth is a lot of us as pastors aren’t exactly sure what to do. And pair with that all the difficulties that have come post-covid. How can we enter into this digital and physical world and reach Millennials and Gen Z with a more Hybrid approach to our ministry? Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00-0:58 – Intro 0:58-3:35 - Does Digital Ministry matter post-covid? 3:36-7:09 - What could a Hybrid Model even look like? 7:09-9:09 - The faltering faith of younger generations 9:09-13:43 - Inspecting Digital openness amongst Church attenders 13:43-16:29 - How to get started in the Digital Space 16:29-18:24 - How to expand teaching and preaching into the digital space 18:24-20:00 - The future of short-form video content 20:00-21:24 - The difference between a sermon and teaching online 21:24-22:23 - Short-form content is very digestible 22:23-23:44 - The advantage we have as church leaders in the digital space 23:44-32:50 - How to get started 32:51-35:28 - Fulfilling the Great Commission through Digital means TRANSCRIPT Nick Clason (00:00): Years ago, right? Uh, so 22. Yeah. Wow Matthew Johnson (00:05): Man. Nick Clason (00:05): And I didn't do the beard, right? Matthew Johnson (00:07): Yeah. You were doing the chin strap back then. Nick Clason (00:09): Yeah, I had that for oh gosh. And it was like, not very much. Matthew Johnson (00:13): no, , it's like just subtle it up. Nick Clason (00:19): Yeah. And now I've got this gigantic thing. Matthew Johnson (00:23): I love it. Nick Clason (00:25): Well, Hey everyone. Welcome to hybrid ministry podcast. On today's episode, we are gonna talk about how your church can reach gen Z and millennials here in 2022. Um, I'm your host, Nick Clason, along here with my friend, Matt Johnson, Matt, how you doing? Matthew Johnson (00:43): Doing right? It's uh, a little early. I see the sun rising right now of the sky, but it's actually very peaceful and I'm loving it. Nick Clason (00:51): Yeah. You have coffee going yet or did you just, yeah. Okay. Smart. Smart. Matthew Johnson (00:55): Got some cold brew right here. Nick Clason (00:57): Nice. Okay. So, uh, I wanna talk about this idea of hybrid, you know, and, uh, like, like we said, in the pilot, there's a lot of, there's a lot of thought. I think amongst church leaders about, um, digital being kind of pitted against physical, um, and Barna actually came out with the study recently. I'm sure you've seen this because you're the one who told me to look at it. uh, that said, um, a solely digital church expression is wanted by only about 9% of Christians. So, um, when you read that, do you feel like that's a, do you feel like that is a push towards the, the physical expression? Like what would be your response to that? Matthew Johnson (01:40): Yeah, when I read that, it there's, I think there's a lot there in this study that Barnett did, but specifically this stat, what stood out the most about it is that when COVID happened, the answer was immediately, well, everything has to go a hundred percent digital or we're staying a hundred percent physical. There was no conversation about an in between at all. And you rooted uprooted people from their, you know, their daily lives, their weekly habits of every Sunday morning, I wake up and I, you know, go to my local church down the street or whatever to, okay. I gotta sit in my living room and watch church. And there's a huge disconnect that you started feeling with that. So, um, I think that's why digital church is drastically dropped and you can kind of see those numbers at, in the church in general. Um, and I mean, the stats says it all only 9% of, you know, Christians want only digital, which is not very high when you look at, you know, Christian numbers. So, um, but what it does say is there's still people that want that. So that's something we have to also keep in mind as we go forward. Nick Clason (02:54): Yeah. And if you, if you read on it actually says, um, so only 9% say they, they only that, and I think that that word only is what's key there. Right. Because it says one third express that some sort of hybrid option would suit them. Well. Yeah. So that's, that's 33%. Right. And then as you, as you inspect deeper into the generational gaps, millennials and gen Z are just as likely to choose a hybrid option as they are to choose a physical option. So 40 versus 42%. So like that, and that's the wave of the future, right? Yep. So, so what in your mind, like, what does, what, what does a hybrid option even look like? Or do we know, or do we know yet? Matthew Johnson (03:40): I don't think we have so a solid answer, but I think we have a lot of, um, balls rolling at different churches around the nation and you can kind of start seeing what a hybrid option looks like. So, uh, a good example, some of good examples that you could think of that. I mean, everyone talks about life. Church, life church is a great digital presence. Mm-hmm, , you know, they're live online. I mean, pretty much every time I go to their website, this says we're live right now. So , um, which is honestly why, uh, life church has probably been able to hit the millennial demographic better than most big mega churches have been able to. Matthew Johnson (04:23): Interesting because they have had that option where, Hey, I can go to church. Um, life church has locations everywhere now, but also I can just watch online. And that's the key to this. What we're talking about is like reaching these younger people. So even millennials who we are starting to see have kind of been a forgotten generation when it comes to the Christian world, the gen Z, who, um, we're starting to realize are going to be forgotten. And we have no idea how to talk to gen Z. Uh, how do we get these younger people involved with church as much as they are involved with other aspects of their life. Um, and if we can have that hybrid option, which really in my mind, we need to have an offering that they can do as much as possible as they can in the digital realm of your church, but have the reliability of coming to the church for all the major stuff. So crisises, um, community questions, mm-hmm, , uh, like, uh, conversations. Cause we know, especially you being a pastor, you know, you can have a way better conversation with somebody if they come have a coffee with you, then if they just tweet at you. Nick Clason (05:49): Yeah, for sure. So, well, and, and a step that you always remind me of is 51% of gen Z have said that they prefer online only as a discipleship option. Yep. And that's literally half can't get more. Yeah. I mean it's a little more than half, but so it's like, that is important and that that's half of our demographic. And so if we, as a church for sake, uh, any form or any sort of digital, uh, we're missing half of a generation based on what they say that they want. Yep. Nick Clason (06:22): And so we gotta, we can, we don't have to do that. We don't have to pursue after that, but we just have to know what the cost of that is gonna be. And the, I, I just think that the church is in a spot where they're the church being the capital C church, like in person, church, attendance trends are different and I get it cuz digital costs money. And so with attendance, a lot of times follows money. And so you gotta make sure that you have what it takes to, to staff towards these things and to pay for these things and have the budget for these things. Right. But yep. But uh, if we don't, we're just gonna continue to reach people as they are aging, older and older as gen Z, millennials are finding their worth meaning and value over on TikTok or on YouTube. Matthew Johnson (07:10): Yeah, exactly. And I mean, you can already see this trend of the younger generation's faith faltering drastically, like the Gallup study that you and I just talked about where, you know, uh, we went from 78% of 18 to 35 year olds had faith in God to now we're down to 68% and that's in what, six years. So that is, um, crazy, crazy aspect that we're not thinking about. And I'm telling you, um, we can keep doing church the way we've always done it, but the church is just gonna consistently be behind. And there's the running joke in the church world. And the church world is always five years late. You know, we always, you know, oh yeah, we're finally gonna add a guitar on stage. And everyone's like, well, rock music been around for 15 years. So, um, that's just the running church joke. We're a little slower to adapt, but we can't be slow to adapt in this climate because every day that we take our time on adapting is faith is all deteriorating. Hmm. So that's something we gotta keep in mind. Nick Clason (08:20): Well, and I, and you know, I wanna be clear like you and I like, we're not people that are like over here trying to like crap on the church. Like, oh, we love the church and Matthew Johnson (08:29): Yeah. We work at a church, so Nick Clason (08:31): Yeah. And we think that the church is like, I believe that Jesus made the church, his primary number one, uh, right. Yeah. Way to way to reach the world, you know? So like I think there's good things out there. I think there's good para church type ministries. Good, good people like on TikTok and YouTube trying to do things, but like the church should enter into this space, you know, and not just leave it up for some 15 year old influencer, you Matthew Johnson (08:56): Know? Exactly. Yep. Yeah. The church is not going anywhere. I wanna be clear about that. Like the church is solid, we're strong, it's the church just needs a little bit of a, a shift in, you know, it's something that everyone is talking about currently. Nick Clason (09:09): So, so Barnett had an interesting thing in their study, um, and they called it digital openness. So that's church adults who were defined as having digital openness. And so these are sort of the five kind markers of that. So I just wanna run through them. And then when you, and I can kind of think about, 'em talk about 'em the first one is, um, uh, a church adult with digital openness sees the value of attending an online church service. Um, they also think that churches should use digital resources for spiritual formation or discipleship purposes, post pandemic. They think that churches should use digital resources for gathering their people together after the pandemic as well. Number four, they say either hybrid. So both a digital and a physical or a primarily digital church will best fit their lifestyle after the pandemic. And they're open to attending new kinds of online gatherings that are unfamiliar. Nick Clason (10:07): So like we said, this is the type of, I feel like, I mean, you're millennial, I'm a millennial. Like these are things that like both you and I would hold as values, like having, having an option to attend something. Like, I guess the starkest picture I have of it. Matt is a couple weeks ago in our youth ministry. I was in the room. Um, and we were meeting in the room with our teenagers and leaders. And um, one of my leaders had a question about an event coming up and rather than her tracking me down, uh, she pulled up our website to try and find an answer to it. Um, and she, but she couldn't. And so we're in the room and she's on her online device trying to figure it out. And she's trying to, she's trying to get answers to it until finally she's like, Hey, like she's flagged me down as I was walking by. Nick Clason (10:57): And she's like, I can't find the answer to it. And I was like, oh, well that's cuz we didn't put it on there. Um, so that's our fault, but I just, again, right. Like that's an example right there of where digital meets physical. Like that's the type of world that we're living in. And I don't think that in the church in general, I don't think we're thinking about it often in that type of way. I think we're like trying to replicate a physical expression onto digital mm-hmm and I don't know, I, I do think that people are tired of that post COVID, but I do think that there are other avenues or other, um, other ways that people can try, uh, that churches can try to enter into that kind of hybrid space. So mm-hmm um, and another thing I thought was interesting, I'll read through these and then wanna kind of chat and just pick your brain as, yeah. Nick Clason (11:43): These, these are some of the options, um, of things that people thought could be like a, a digital expression or like a hybrid version. Right? So teaching slash preaching, one-on-one prayer, small groups, all of this in like the hybrid space, worship, prayer visitation, confession children's ministry, youth ministry, adult ministry, the number one option on there was teaching and preaching. And I find that so interesting that that was the thing that, that people thought was the number one option, um, of them to be able to, uh, experience something digitally mm-hmm . So for some reason I said this to you the other day. So for some reason in the church, the, the, we determined the most effective way to communicate theological truth was through a pastor preaching in a pulpit mm-hmm , that's no longer the most effective way. And I think for a lot of us in church, like that's a little bit of a terrifying proposition, cuz that, that means we're getting rid of something that is age old and, and someone we've been doing for years. And I'm, I'm not, I'm not even sure I necessarily want to do that either. But the fact is like, we, we now have the internet, we now have podcasts. We now have all kinds of other ways that we can communicate theological truths. So what are some of those ways that you could see the church stepping in to sort of that hybrid space and some of those, you know, arenas. Cause I think if, if you're the average person listening to this, you're like, okay, all these thoughts sound great, but like what should I do? Matthew Johnson (13:21): Yeah. Where do I, where do I start at? Yeah. So a big thing I even wanna highlight is this is just church adults that are saying this, so this Nick Clason (13:29): That's Matthew Johnson (13:29): Good point. Yeah. This isn't even like our agnostic, the atheist, the spiritually questioning people at all. This is just your people that are in your congregation right now are saying they need this mm-hmm um, so when I, uh, some good examples of some easy things that you can start doing today, um, that do that, don't take a lot of time and if you wanna, they can grow and they, they can be a good foundation building block for you. So, uh, first of all, teaching and preaching with record, just throw a camera up, record, whatever you're teaching your preaching is honestly. Um, we do know if you're trying to reach your church. People like honestly, all you could do is just throw that as an audio and make that a podcast and put that on your website and say, Hey, here's pastor bills or, uh, you know, pastor Toms, you know, sermon from this last week or whatever, something super easy that you guys can start creating the digital presence. Matthew Johnson (14:34): But some other easy stuff is like, just create a Facebook group for your church. Um, just, uh, or if you have like multiple different ministries in your church, create Facebook groups for all of them, invite your volunteers into there, invite the people that, you know, wanna be involved with those groups and start cultivating those relationships in a setting that is designed for that. And, uh, you're gonna realize most people, especially, uh, higher millennial up are gonna be very open to going into those Facebook groups. Now, when you're trying to hit gen Z and stuff, you're gonna have to get a little more creative with what your digital presence looks like. Um, cuz we know, first of all, they're slowly going off of Instagram. We know they're not really involved on Facebook anymore. And really the world that's they're they're in is like TikTok and Snapchat mm-hmm um, and those avenues are just vastly different, but I mean download TikTok and start making some fun videos. If you fill up to it, uh, there's some easy wins that you could start doing right now. And then if you really wanna start like strategizing, okay, what can we do? Um, as a church here is like digitally, uh, do you have a church bulletin that you give out every week that you're still printing, make that digital, just put that online. You can still have it physical, but give a digital option for it. Um, yeah, Nick Clason (15:58): At least let the people be able to find it on Tuesday night. Exactly. If they have a question about the, the Wednesday event coming up tomorrow, Matthew Johnson (16:05): Exactly like have, have all that in mind for any resources you're making and I guarantee you're making this stuff on your computer, so just upload it digitally instead of printing it and make a easy avenue for people to access that stuff. So, um, those are some quick easy wins. And then if we wanna get more complex, you know, there's thousands and thousands of things we can Nick Clason (16:29): Start to do. Yeah. Well, I mean I'm thinking, right. So if in this list here that I read already teaching preaching 1 0 1 small groups, uh, 1 0 1 prayer, small groups, worship visitation, confession children's youth adult ministry, the number one option out of that was teaching. Yeah. So we can deliver, um, our teaching yes. On a Sunday morning in a large group gathering of some sort, but both through, like you're saying ripping down audio, maybe throwing up a camera and creating it, uh, a video to put on YouTube. We can take that content though and repurpose it. And so, especially as we're talking gen Z, um, and millennials, uh, you know, I remember you telling me the other day, like everything on Instagram and Facebook is trending towards Instagram, uh, and Facebook reals. Yeah. Because they're trying to keep up with TikTok. Yep. And so this short form video is kind of king right now, at least at the time of this recording. Nick Clason (17:27): And yeah, we in the church are in the business of content creation. We create content every single week. So what if we just took and parsed out elements of our sermon from Sunday morning and just shot that in some sort of short form video content, like either leading up to the sermon or, uh, coming after the sermon, operating as some sort of like recap or something and just shooting it in with a little bit of a different mindset, same content, take all your study, everything you did, all the passages that you studied and did exegesis on. And then just bring that into like a one minute short form video and start flooding some of those places. I think that's a way that you can, you can take your digital or I'm sorry, your physical expression and bring it out into a digital world and kind of lean into that. That hybridness would you, what do you think about that? Matthew Johnson (18:22): Oh, I can't agree more and even speed of short term content, Instagram believes in it so much that they literally, this week as we're recording this updated Instagram, that every video is now real. So they have said, Nick Clason (18:36): I saw that yesterday. Yeah. I, I saw, I was like what? That's a real, yeah. Matthew Johnson (18:39): Yeah. So they're, they're saying this is where we're headed and it's to compete with TikTok. Um, so yeah, take your teaching and your preaching and just splice that up into some one minute service, uh, one minute clips and stuff. And let me talk, it's super easy to be able to do that. Um, I mean you can do that an I movie that's already on your iPhone or you can download a free video software, like black magic that is very easy to do on, I know it's a crazy name, black magic, but don't get scared by it. It's just a company and, uh, you can, uh, you know, start cutting up video today and honestly start, uh, growing your digital presence there, um, very easily. Nick Clason (19:23): So you, yeah, so you can either record your sermon and take clips off of that. Um, but I, I personally think if you don't, you know, if you don't have the technology for that, you don't have a camera set in the back of the room yet, and you're just starting in this, like all start recording audio, like the best camera that you have access to is the one in your pocket. Yep. You know, the, the, the, the phone now they say has more computing power than the computer that landed us on the moon. Oh yeah. Uh, back with NASA and, and Armstrong and everything like that. So just get your phone out and record short five short form videos as like, just snippets of your sermon, you know? Yep. And the difference, you know, Matt, like I was telling, I was talking about this last week with some of our team, like the difference between a sermon and a sermon. Nick Clason (20:08): You keep, you kind of build to like a climax and then you like have like a grand reveal at the end. Um, uh, social media is different. Like you gotta hit, you gotta hit your, your topics straight away. Um, and not, not hold it back. And so for preachers, sometimes it's a little bit of a different, uh, philosophy, right. But if you get on TikTok and you start exploring, you'll learn kind of that archetype pretty fast, you know? Yeah. That's anyone who's good and performing well on there. They're probably using that, that strategy. Yep. So have a compelling hook, um, and have some compelling text there. That's gonna stop the scroll because what, like, what's the average watch time on TikTok, Matthew Johnson (20:50): Like right now. Nick Clason (20:52): Yeah. I don't know. Like it's, it feels like if it's not good, you're just gonna swipe right. Past it to the next Matthew Johnson (20:56): Thing about, yeah. I mean, usually the average watch time is about seven seconds, which is why TikTok seven, second videos typically get pushed higher in their algorithm. Nick Clason (21:05): Yeah. And even as a church, you can even take some sermon content and put that in a seven second video. Right. Like you can, you can do one of those videos that has like way too much text to read in seven seconds. And so it's gonna force people to rewatch it, which is also gonna tell the algorithm like, Hey, this is a good video show this to more people. Matthew Johnson (21:25): Yes. Yep. And something else that's super important about that short form content right now is the fact of how digestible it is. Yeah. So when you're reaching millennial and gen Z and we're, let's think of like youth leaders, you're mostly gonna be reaching you to gen Z right now. Um, you're going, they're gonna want that short, digestible content that they can share with other people, or they don't have to think wrong about at all. So that content doesn't have to be the super polished piece. Mm-hmm I, I want to like, make sure that we're pretty clear about that. Like if you look at YouTube, um, and what people are watching, like most of these guys are just, you know, taking their iPhone and they're recording themselves and then they post it and it's get millions of views now. So, uh, that as long as the content is solid and it's short and digestible, you're gonna be totally fine. Nick Clason (22:23): Yeah. And I, I think that's the piece that, that also, so, you know, number one, we are content creators by nature in the church. And then number two, uh, the level of Polish, uh, has really diminished. In fact, I think some, some things that are so polished are sometimes a little bit of a turnoff mm-hmm to gen Z and millennials. And so both of those things bode well for you and I, because I don't need a several thousand dollars camera aside from the one that's already, probably on my phone. Right. Yeah. And I don't, I don't need to re like, gosh, man, I can't imagine if I was like a washer and dryer company trying to do social media. Like, what would I do? But I'm a church. Like I have, I have hundreds and thousands of pieces of content on my hard drive right now of old sermons. I've preached, like I can dust those off and I can turn those into short form video content and use it as a way to, you know, to reach people. So, yeah. Um, and it's not even, it's not even bad, like, it's, there's a lot of like serious or like thought provoking things on TikTok. It's not just dancing and, and trend videos. Like those things are on there for sure. But you know, like you can, you can, uh, find an audience there on, on TikTok, super easy by doing some type of stuff. Matthew Johnson (23:42): So, absolutely. Yeah. Nick Clason (23:44): So, um, if, if Matt, if, um, you were someone's, um, marketing consultant and they were saying, Hey, we have nothing. You know, we don't even record our sermons. We don't have a camera in the back of the room. Um, what are the, what was be three to five things that within the next like month, you could see a church maybe start to start to take steps towards, to enter more into this hybrid world to reach millennials and gen Z. Matthew Johnson (24:10): Oh yeah. So let's see, you have no digital presence at all. You're a church of, you know, 300, let's say a hundred. Yeah. Small plant. Um, just getting going. Uh, I was actually just talking to a church that has 50 in Denver. Um, and, uh, some of the stuff I would tell you is, okay, so create a Facebook page, start there, get a Facebook page going and a Facebook group going for your church. And just, Nick Clason (24:38): And by the page, you mean the, like the business, the thing so that you could be able to run ads off that if you wanted to Matthew Johnson (24:45): Yeah. Yeah. Creative Facebook business page, um, for your church, that is just a place that people can come like and make comments and you can start posting content on. So Sunday morning, pull out your phone, take a photo of the outside of your building and just say, come join us and give me the service times or whatever, like start, just start, um, pushing stuff on to digital platforms. And I also say create a Facebook group. Um, whatever that group looks like for you, I would really strategize and think about what you're trying to do with it. Um, don't just create a Facebook group just cuz oh, you know, these guys are telling me to create a Facebook group, like think about what that group should be, but really that group should be a place that your community can come together and start talking to each other. And there's not a lot of work you have to do for that. You create the Facebook group, you come in and put a post and let people facilitate those conversations. And if it gets, uh, little rowdy or crazy, you can start, you know, facilitating it. But I highly doubt that's gonna happen as you're getting going. Um, Nick Clason (25:46): Well, and you can even do like, and like you're saying like strategize, right? So you can be like, okay, every Monday we're gonna post like the, the song set from Sunday or something like that. Exactly. And then every, every Wednesday we're gonna do a Facebook live at noon and the pastor's gonna jump on and do a devotional. Then every Friday we're gonna do like a funny Friday and we're gonna post like a meme or something like that. Exactly. It can be that skeleton of a, a strategy because in a group you're hoping that everyone else kind of drives the conversation. And so you don't even really unlike Instagram or unlike TikTok, where you have to continually kind of feed the content yep. A group you can let the other people be like, be creating that Matthew Johnson (26:24): Absolutely like post post questions. Like what can we be praying for you for this week? Uh, what's going on in the community this week? Is there any volunteer opportunities like really get that conversation, just going, just spark the conversation and sit back and let everyone go. Um, Nick Clason (26:39): Okay. So get on Facebook, Matthew Johnson (26:40): Get on Facebook. Yep. And then, uh, another great thing is to start, like we said, making short term video, short term video content, and I'm, if you don't have a smartphone, which there's probably not a lot of us out here, that'd be listening to this podcast right now that don't have a smartphone. Um, so pull out your smartphone, take your sermon notes that just look at your sermon notes and find the minute chunks in there that you like and record that real quick vertical. Just shoot it vertical, throw it on your Facebook. Um, you can from Facebook post it strike to Instagram. Mm-hmm and there's not a lot of work there for you and that's gonna start getting your digital presence up too. And I, what I say is like, find those minute chunks, or even if you are like, you, you could speak into this more too, Nick, cuz you're obviously a pastor, but like, you know, you write your sermon and you go, okay, I know I'm gonna summarize this in a minute. I have my synopsis of what this is like record that though that on camera. Nick Clason (27:45): Um, yeah, honestly, I'm like it's, it's, , it's a little bit of a bummer how I can like preach a message for 30 minutes and then I can take my outline and basically summarize it in five minutes and do a five part series on TikTok. And I'm like, oh, what was I doing up there for 30 minutes? Matthew Johnson (28:03): You just have more stories of illustrations and Nick Clason (28:06): You. Exactly. And then the other thing you'd say is try and start recording your, your audio so that you can have a audio podcast. Would that be one of your things or is that not even as high on the list for Matthew Johnson (28:18): You? Um, Matthew Johnson (28:21): So the thing is, is if you have a audio set up at all at your church, so usually you, you know, it could be the most basic soundboard in the world, which you probably have right now you can throw an SD card and their press record while you're on stage. So I would say, yeah, go ahead and make your audio content a podcast right now, as long as you have that soundboard. Um, but I'm, if you have a mic set, as long as you're not, you know, using a mic, like a karaoke mic, you should be able to do that, but don't go buy new equipment yet until you're ready for that next step. Cuz here's what happened during the pandemic and all these guys I talked to as I was consulting with churches and figuring out how to help them go digital or okay, I'm gonna go buy these three Sony cameras. Matthew Johnson (29:07): We're gonna have this three camera set up. Uh, we're gonna have some students in the back, you know, try to figure out what we're doing. Hey, uh, Matt, what is all the equipment I need? And my answer always was like, first of all, okay, if you had the budget for equipment, let's talk, but don't go get the top tier of anything. You don't know where this is headed for you guys. So yeah. Tweak your time. Um, and really have a figure out that strategy, not just the, oh, everyone's doing this, so I need to do this before you go do it. So, um, yeah, get that podcast going, uh, the audio for that podcast or whatever that looks like for your congregation or your group going, that's gonna help you digitally. Um, and then, you know, another easy thing to do is, like I said, you know, post that short term content on like, uh, Instagram and Facebook. Like if you are already starting to post social and stuff, like start posting doesn't necessarily like not graphics per se, but like just take a photo outside and go, how can I be praying through this week? Nick Clason (30:14): Yeah. Matthew Johnson (30:15): Or, uh, take a photo of worship this week and go, Hey, what worship songs would you wanna see this? You know, this semester or whatever, like you can start asking those questions that are related to those options that you were talking about earlier. So, um, you can really start figuring out what it is that people are looking for with your group. Nick Clason (30:35): Yeah, well like we recently doubled down in our student ministry on, on TikTok and on reels. Um, and we actually pulled back on some of the more formal, uh, or traditional styles of posting like on Instagram or whatever. Yeah. And we just used, uh, we're just using our short form video content sort of supplement in those areas. So for example, like I was trying to post a story a day and I was trying to post something on the Instagram feed a day and I scaled those back cuz I saw those starting to underperform a little bit mm-hmm um, but I saw our reels and our TikTok content starting to skyrocket. And so I was like, all right, instead of five things a day or five things a week on the feed, let's just move it down to three, make it really quality content, like get a nice photo. Nick Clason (31:23): Um, and then the rest, um, of everything and just throw, throw that short form video content. So again, like we were saying, depending on when you're listening to this at the time of the recording like that right now is everything. Yeah. And the beautiful thing is that doesn't require a lot of, you know, like software knowhow, like you can edit right in the app, like TikTok has a decent editor. So does reels, like you don't have to have Adobe premiere pro or any video skills. And like you said, you have, you have the ability to just shoot that kind of raw on the cell phone. That's sitting already in your pocket. So yeah. And what was that back to podcasting? What's that HubSpot stat? You said about uh, uh, the average adult and podcast. Matthew Johnson (32:10): Yeah. Listenership. Yeah. I think it's 84% of people listen to eight hours of podcast a week. And I know I'm one of those guys, like, you know, I've, I've always listened to podcast. You don't even realize how much is I listen to when I run, I listen to, when I drive, I listen to it. When I'm cooking, I listen to it when I'm doing housework, like I'm always listening to, you know, my podcast. So, um, you wanna be where people are. So as you start seeing where your people are, know that to go for them and you're gonna hear people go, well, I don't listen to podcasts. Remember we are, we're here talking about millennial and gen Z. They listen to podcasts. yeah, I promise so Nick Clason (32:51): Well, I think that's a great way to put the, I think great way to end it. You said go where people are, cuz that's what this is about. And if we look, if we pull this all the way back from, from the great commission of Jesus, which is to go out and make disciples of all nations like it, when, when we dovetail that off of the acts one eight, uh, commission, where he says, you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea Samaria, and then ultimately to the ends of the earth, it's this ripple effect. But it starts where you are. So find where the people are. Yeah. There's, there's a quote that said theology is all the more important today because there are so many messages being delivered into your home that you need to be able to determine then what is actually true? that quote came from CS Lewis in the 1950s. Nick Clason (33:37): Yeah. When the advent of television was coming into the, to the American and, and world's home, right? Imagine the, the importance of that same idea, that same quote now with not only television, but internet, YouTube, TikTok, cell phones, advertising, all the things like that. Like the, the time is now like the amount of untruth that's out there. And so the world needs you, the world needs your church and your people and millennials and gen Z. Like they, they do, I, what I've seen as a youth pastor, they do care about spiritual stuff. Oh yeah. They just don't think the church wants to talk about the spiritual stuff that matters to them. Yeah. So don't be afraid to Wade into that space because oh yeah. Because relationship equals influence and so you can help to start build that through, uh, some of your digital channels. Matthew Johnson (34:30): Mm-hmm yep. Totally agree. Nick Clason (34:33): All right. Well I think that'll do it for us, uh, today. Any, any final thoughts, Matt? Matthew Johnson (34:39): No, just go get it and just start, you know? Yeah. Go, just start. Um, your digital presence. That's all I can say. Like that's the thing that we, we can sit here and talk to strategize, but just go shoot your first video. Go create your Facebook or whatever that looks like. Just take that first step. You guys got this. Nick Clason (34:56): Yeah. Well, Hey forever. You update on this. Follow us on Twitter at hybrid ministry, uh, website is hybrid ministry.xyz because of course.com was taken and uh, and uh, yeah. Be sure to subscribe, share it with friends. And uh, we'll talk to you guys next time. Matthew Johnson (35:14): Hey, thanks guys.
Nick and Matt introduce their new podcast, Hybrid Ministry. What is Hybrid Ministry? Why are these guys both so passionate about it? How can churches be more relevant to reaching Gen Z and Millennials in 2022? Follow along on twitter - twitter.com/hybridministry Or find full transcripts and show notes at http://www.hybridministry.xyz TIMECODES 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:46 Why Hybrid Ministry Matters 00:02:34 Trends of Digital Ministry 00:04:21 Ministry post Pandemic TRANSCRIPT Matthew Johnson (00:00): Plan. I'll just play off of you. Nick Clason (00:02): Oh, I love there. All right. You're you ready to rock and roll? Matthew Johnson (00:08): Yes, sir. Are you in a closet? Nick Clason (00:09): Yeah, bro. Matthew Johnson (00:11): I love it. Nick Clason (00:12): This is, uh, the nursery closet. Matthew Johnson (00:14): Love it. Nick Clason (00:15): I haven't got a little blanky over here. Matthew Johnson (00:18): I love it. Nick Clason (00:21): All right. You ready to rock and roll? Matthew Johnson (00:23): Ready? Nick Clason (00:24): Okay. And 3, 2, 1. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the first ever episode of hybrid ministry podcast. I am your host, Nick Clayson. And along with me is my friend. And co-host Matthew Johnson. How you doing Matt? Matthew Johnson (00:44): Doing all right, Nick. How are you doing Nick Clason (00:46): Good. Good. Let's uh, let's talk a little bit about what this is and why we're, why we're so passionate about it. So Matt, tell us a little bit, like, who are you? What's your experience and why is this something that you're, you're passionate about? Matthew Johnson (01:01): Yeah, I love it. Um, so my name is Matt Johnson. I have been in marketing for the greater part of my adult career. Uh, worked in the ministry world for six years of that. Now, um, started out in video multimedia production and then moved my way up into a marketing manager role. And since then I've, uh, done marketing management market and a marketing director role, uh, for big churches and parachurch organizations with, uh, focus on, uh, you know, just helping out youth ministry was my original goal at dare to share ministries. And then, uh, now I'm at the churchwide role at our current church, so Nick Clason (01:45): Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a youth pastor. Um, and right now I work at same church. And so, um, I just, I'm passionate about this cuz I, as someone who's trying to reach gen Z, you know, I see, I see the trends shifting, um, and I wanna make sure that the church stays on top of it, you know, and I wanna make sure that they are doing everything they can to continue to reach the next generation, I guess, you know, for me, like I'm seeing a lot of teenagers, they are interested in spiritual things, um, and interested in God, but in a lot of ways, I don't think they're necessarily interested in the church. And so I want to make sure that we're doing everything we can, you know, to be the most, the most effective that we can be. Um, is that like, would you say you see similar things, similar trends with that as it pertains to digital and, and like a hybrid type of ministry? Matthew Johnson (02:43): Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, the countless studies that you can go on a Barna and Gallup and read all about what's going on with gen Z and, um, being in the trenches, you, and I know the need that is there for these, uh, for this generation. And you know, we're not even talking about generation alpha yet and they'll be, your kids are gonna be generation alpha. My kids generation alpha. We have no idea where we're gonna be headed with them. So, um, and I don't think enough people are kind of talking about how we can reach gens Z. We're more talking about the problems that gen Z is facing, which is great. The problems can help us, you know, frame what's about gen Z, but we know that these students have a spiritual need. They are curious, they're asking some of the deepest questions over here and, uh, we just need to be talking to 'em. So it's very PA uh, very big passion of mine to help other youth leaders be able to, um, reach their students. And also, uh, just a passion in general for gen Z also has like, you know, the coolest dances and the kind of the funniest people around so Nick Clason (03:54): Well, and I think like, I think for us in church, like we've done it, done it a certain way for so long. And I just think it's, it's gonna look different, you know, and we have to be willing to, um, adapt to some new practices. Um, and it's terrifying. Change is terrifying for people, you know? So we, that, that's what this is. Um, and the reason for the name hybrid, right, is I think in the pandemic, a lot of people, obviously not think I know a lot of people shifted to digital. Um, and now post pandemic, a lot of people are shifting back to physical and I feel like it's very binary thinking like it has to be one or the other, I think the way you and I see it is that it's, it's not one or the other. It's both. Right. And that's why I like the, the name hybrid. So we wanna explore best practices of online, digital marketing, um, and look at some gen Z stuff. And, uh, listen, I don't think either one of us would claim to be experts or that we have the, all the answers, but we just think that this is an important conversation. So we wanna have it and hope that there's other people out there that are interested in that as well. Matthew Johnson (05:06): Yep. I completely agree. And, uh, I'm excited to kind of see where this can take us. So Nick Clason (05:12): Of course. All right, well, that's it for the pilot? Um, just a quick little intro and, uh, we'll see for episode one, bye, everybody.