A Modern Animal: Recent Episodes

Nectar of the Dogs

Being a pet parent is one of the greatest joy in life, but it's also bloody hard and a big responsibility. Pets come with no manuals, user-guides or playbooks and they can't talk...now that's pressure!

That's why we created A Modern Animal - to give you practical information to help you look after your beloved pets and give them their best and healthiest lives.

Every month, our co-hosts and dynamic duo, Gabriel Perera (the Dog Dad ) and Dr. Mike Woodrow (the Aussie Vet), are joined by an expert guest to discuss everything and anything a modern animal parent would want to know with a key focus on health.

No B.S, no patronising statements, no dumbing down of information... just knowledge and facts from super bright pet enthusiasts in a fun and easy to digest format.

We hope you can tune in and get value from it.

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Scratching the surface of skin & coat conditions

The skin is the largest organ of the body and carries out many important functions, including serving as a barrier between the animal and the environment.

The general condition of a pet's skin and coat is a good indication of their overall health and unfortunately skin conditions are also very common amongst pets.

We are therefore very excited to be talking to leading Australian Veterinary Dermatologist Dr Dani Hoolahan to learn more about the skin and coat of our pets.

In this practical episode, Gabe (who is flying solo as Dr. Mike is finishing a well-deserved holiday) will discuss key tips to care for, manage and treat the skin and coat of your pet. Specifically they will cover:

  • The common skin conditions and issues seen in practice by Vet dermatologists
  • How to recognise a healthy skin and coat (and an abnormal skin and coat)
  • How to diagnose and treat certain skin conditions
  • The connection between skin disease and ear related conditions
  • Diet recommendations for skin and coat health
  • The different types of skin allergies and how to diagnose them
  • The do's and don't of shampooing and washing dogs
  • Specific skin conditions in cats
  • Top tips for dogs and cats parents

If you notice a certain level of licking, scratching or chewing with your pet, it is probably abnormal - Dr Dani Hoolahan

ABOUT OUR GUEST - DR DANI HOOLAHAN :

  • BSc
  • BVMS
  • ACVD Board Certified Veterinary Dermatologist

Dr Dani graduated from Murdoch University in 2007 with honours. She worked in busy, small animal general practices both in Sydney, Australia and Portland, Oregon before completing a dermatology internship in Perth, Western Australia and then moving to the University of California, Davis to join the dermatology service at the William R. Pritchard Veterinary Medical Teaching Hospital as a resident.

She completed her residency in 2013 and became a Diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Dermatology in the same year. She has worked in busy dermatology referral practice since 2014 and is the founder of the Veterinary Dermatology Clinic.
She is also currently the Chief Veterinary Officer for PetSure (one of the largest Pet Insurance in Australia).

Dani is a proud Pet Parent to Spike, Daisy and Oliver (a trio of Labradors) Lola (a French Bulldog), Ghost (a Lykoi kitten), Hobbes (a domestic shorthair cat), and Fuzzy (a domestic medium hair cat). The fur family keep getting bigger !

SHOW NOTES:

To get in contact with Dr Dani Hoolahan or one of her specialist team members, you can visit the website of her Veterinary Dermatology Clinic - they have clinics throughout NSW, ACT, VIC and TAS.

https://vetdermclinic.com.au

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Learning about Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine (TCVM)

Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine (TCVM) may seem like a foreign concept to most pet parents, especially in the Western world. But in fact, it is a medical system that has been used for thousand of years to treat animals from common ailments.

To understand more about this fascinating modality we are joined today by Integrative Veterinarian and TCVM practitioner Dr. Neal Loh.

In this episode, Gabe and Dr Mike will uncover the tools a TCVM practitioner uses to diagnose and treat their patients. More specifically, they will discuss:

  • How Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) translates to animals
  • What brought Neal to Veterinary Medicine and now TCVM
  • The typical cases Dr Loh sees and treats & the importance of the pet parent relationship
  • The role and place of TCVM onside conventional / western medicine
  • Nutrition and food therapies
  • The use of TCVM to relieve stress & anxiety
  • The future of TCVM in Australia and around the world

It's what TCVM is all about - we just want to find balance in pets - Dr. Neal Loh, Integrative Veterinarian

ABOUT OUR GUEST - DR NEAL LOH:

  • BSc BVMS, CVA, CVCH, CVFT
  • Integrative Veterinarian
  • Certified Veterinary Acupuncturist,
  • Chinese Herbalist,
  • Food Therapist
  • Director of Holistic Pet Vet
  • Co-Founder of Holistic Pet Health

Dr. Neal Loh graduated from Murdoch University (Perth, Western Australia) as a veterinarian and has worked in various clinics & hospitals prior to starting his own holistic practice – Holistic Pet Vet. Neal is also a Certified Veterinary Acupuncturist, Chinese Herbalist and Food Therapist after obtaining his post graduate qualifications from Chi University (Florida, USA).

Neal is one of the rare few integrative veterinarians who specialises in Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine (TCVM) in Australia. He utilises the synergistic effects of acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicine as well as nutrition to improve the health and quality of life in companion pets. Empowered with the knowledge from both Western conventional science & Eastern traditional medicine, he is able to best address root causes and achieve sustained desired results from his patients. He sees patients with a wide array of issues such as musculoskeletal ailments, endocrine pathologies, seizures, allergies as well as cancer. He has special interest in canine and feline gut related disorders.

Besides consulting, Neal dedicates his time to continuing education, expanding and deepening his horizon on integrative therapies in veterinary medicine. He is also currently an adjunct guest lecturer at the veterinary nursing college in Perth. In 2020, Neal co-founded Holistic Pet Health with his wife Jeri, where they are dedicated to providing healthy and natural treats, meal toppers, plus a range of essential oil blends for various needs. Work aside, Neal is a father to three young children where they make sure he gets no other free time. As a family they enjoy spending time outdoors hiking.

SHOW NOTES:

To get in contact with Dr Loh you can visit his website Holistic Pet Vet:

https://www.holitreats.com.au/holistic-pet-vet

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Decoding the cat / human relationship

Cats are ofter misunderstood and often treated as "little dogs". It was time for Dr.Mike and Gabe to dig deeper into some feline topics and decode the world of our feline companions.

In today's episode of A Modern Animal we are delighted to be joined by Chris O'Neil, a passionate and experienced cat behaviourist and founder of the cat behaviour solutions online platform - Catology.

Together, they explore how to answer the needs of cats and keep them happy and well balanced. More specifically, they investigate:

  • How Chris got into the feline space and became a cat behaviourist
  • The top 5 cat issues experienced by cat owners
  • The cat / human dynamic
  • How to best manage change with cats
  • Cat diets and correlations with behaviours
  • How to setup the right environment for cats to thrive

"With cats it is less about training and more about creating the right environment" Chris O'Neil, Cat Behaviourist & Founder of Catology

ABOUT OUR GUEST - CHRIS O'NEIL:

Chris is a cat behaviourist and the founder of Catology – Cat Behaviour Solutions. Like most people who end up working with animals, he grew up with a household full of them. And from a young age he aspired to be a veterinarian. In high school, he approached his local vet and asked if he could join in on consultations and see how things were done. Amazingly, they accepted, and Chris attended twice a week after school for many months, until he was offered a job maintaining their cattery and looking after the cats.

Fast forward many years, Chris unfortunately didn’t become a veterinarian, and instead spent most of his adult career in the corporate world. During this time, he and his partner at the time fostered several kitten litters and adopted three cats of their own (the ‘triplets’). As the triplets were growing up, typical aggressive behavioural issues began to emerge. Chris spent countless hours researching cat behaviour and “fixes” for these issues. Eventually, with lots of trial and error, and some patience, the triplets were living back in harmony. Chris realised that if they are having these issues, many others must be too. During his time working at the vet surgery, he saw many cats being medicated and even euthanised for similar behaviours. He now realises that these "bad" behaviours can be changed. Chris went on to complete a Diploma of Animal Behaviour Science and Technology, specialising in Felines, through the highly-regarded Companion Animal Sciences Institute.

Since then, he decided to leave the corporate world and pursue his passion helping other cat guardians live peacefully and harmoniously with their cats. When Chris isn’t helping individual cat owners all around the world, he loves to write educational materials, teaching owners how to keep their cats happy, healthy and fulfilled. He has authored a popular eBook “It’s Not Your Cat, It’s You!”, manages an online club “Club Catology”, and authors two regular newsletters, “The Daily Meow” and “Confessions of a Cat Behaviourist”.

SHOW NOTES:

Chris has developed plenty of great resources for cat parents.

More about Catology - cat behaviour solutions:

https://www.catology.com.au/

Chris's eBook - it's not your cat, it's you:

https://catology.lpages.co/its-not-your-cat-its-you-aus1

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The world of Pet Insurance

Joining us today on A Modern Animal is Dr. Stephen Rose, an experienced veterinarian of 20 years and the CEO of Trupanion Australia, a leading pet insurance provider.

Tune in as Stephen gives a balanced view of the pet insurance industry and takes Gabe and Dr Mike through the ins and outs of taking up pet insurance for our beloved pets. Specifically, this episode will cover:

  • How Dr. Stephen Rose transitioned from Vet practice to the corporate world and pet insurance.
  • How pet parents come to pet insurance.
  • Self insurance as an alternative to pet insurance.
  • The different considerations pet parents should take into account when thinking about pet insurance.
  • When is a good time to start with pet insurance.
  • The role of veterinarians in starting the conversation on pet insurance.
  • Innovation in the pet insurance world and the role of technology.

"I still get that joy and sense of reward by helping pets on a really grand scale". Dr.Stephen Rose, Veterinarian, CEO - Trupanion Australia

ABOUT OUR GUEST - DR. STEPHEN ROSE:

Dr Stephen Rose is an experienced veterinarian of 20 years, having worked in mixed animal practice, owned his own veterinary hospital doing a lot of after hours emergencies and then also managed a group of 12 corporate hospitals. He understands the real impact of cost of veterinary care on families when a pet gets sick or injured. He completed a Masters in Information Technology and then founded Trupanion Pet insurance in Australia. As CEO and founder his vision is to allow pet owners to budget for the unexpected, and change the conversation at the veterinary hospital. Trupanion Australia has allowed Dr Steve to spread his ability to help pets, far beyond one patient at a time. He aspires to offer every Australian pet and their family the chance to get veterinary help in the tough times. Essentially disrupting the pet insurance market in Australia.

SHOW NOTES:

More about Trupanion Australia:

  • Trupanion Pet Insurance, a better kind of pet insurance, now in Australia.
  • 90% benefit with no payout limits or sub-limits on eligible claims, this plan is unique in Australia.
  • Trupanion’s one simple plan allows the pet loving people to have peace of mind for their four legged family members.
  • For more information about their one simple plan - https://trupanion.com.au/pet-insurance/
  • Get a Quick and Free quote - https://trupanion.com.au/get-quote/

Additional Resources about Trupanion and Pet insurance:

  • What is Trupanion Pet Insurance? https://youtu.be/TFltdhtr0sc
  • How Trupanion compares to other pet insurance - https://trupanion.com.au/?wvideo=pkbb...

  • PupTalk - Essential tips for puppy owners - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3ubsT140Lki4E5qgXM5AVljNC3VaxCp9

  • Trupanion Pet Insurance issued by The Hollard Insurance Company Pty Ltd. Consider the PDS before deciding if the product is right for you. PDS and TMD available at Trupanion.com.au/policy

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Understanding Pet Nutrition

Today, Gabe and Dr Mike welcome Shiva Greenhalgh a registered animal nutritionist to A Modern Animal to talk about the ins and outs of our pets' diets.

In this "meaty" episode our panel will discuss:

  • The non linear journey Shiva had to become a leading animal nutritionist
  • A review of different feeding styles and why personal preference matters
  • Understanding the concept of Complete and Balance in pet food
  • The watchouts when buying pet food
  • The future of pet food as a multi-sensorial experience
  • The role of supplementation

ABOUT OUR GUEST EXPERT - SHIVA GREENHALGH :

Shiva Greenhalgh is a registered and practicing animal nutritionist (RAnNutr) , with a focus area in companion animals. Shiva completed her bachelor of arts from the Australian National University of Australia, followed by a bachelor of science (Zoology) from Western Sydney University. She then went on to complete her masters in Animal Science (Animal Nutrition) at the University of Sydney. Shiva is currently in her final stage of completing her PhD at the University of Sydney which she is due to complete by 2022. Shiva's focus in companion animal nutrition spans across commercial product development as well as private practice where she guides owners on the best nutrition for their pets across different life stages and conditions, formulating varying diets for differing needs based on evidence-based practice. Shiva's areas of interest lie across all areas of clinical nutrition. Shiva has recently joined Australia’s leading online pet retailer, Pet Circle as their in-house Animal Nutritionist. Shiva is a wife and mother of three daughters, and paw parent to a cheeky Keeshond called Mona, and two cats Henry and Goblin.

"It is important to get the right balance between meeting our pets' needs given their conditions and giving them a sense of joy when they eat"

Shiva Greenhalgh

SHOW NOTES:

Shiva recommends the below websites as a reliable source of information for pet parents on pet nutrition:

  1. https://www.petfoodindustry.com/
  2. https://www.msdvetmanual.com/management-and-nutrition/nutrition-small-animals

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Foundations of Dog Behaviour

In this episode of A Modern Animal, Gabe and Dr Mike are joined by one of Australia's (and world's) leading animal behaviourists, Glenn Cooke.

Together they explore:

  • How Glenn first got introduced to animal and canine behavioural science
  • The critical period of social and neurological development in dogs
  • The key requirements we need to be aware of as per parents
    • Relationship with veterinarians
    • The right diet
    • Adequate education
    • Love, affection & plan
  • Why aiming for a win/win relationship with your dog is critical

"Teach your dog what the game is and how to win it" Glenn Cooke

ABOUT OUR GUEST - GLENN COOKE:

  • Training director for Canine Evolution
  • General Manager for Pet Resorts Australia

Glenn has a long-standing career in the professional pet care and training industry. He is the training director for Canine Evolution and has been training people and their dogs for over 3 decades with specific expertise in behavioural problem solving, aggression management, puppy raising and development, socialisation and environmental conditioning, and advanced obedience.

Glenn is highly qualified in Dog Behaviour and Assessment with a Certificate IV in Training and Assessment. He is also an active member of the National Dog Trainers Federation (NDTF). Glenn frequently consults for various government and law enforcement agencies to help train and handle explosive detection dogs.

Glenn is also the General Manager for Pet Resorts Australia, one of the leading and finest pet care facilities in Australia.

Finally, in his spare time (what spare time ??) Glenn co-hosts one of the world’s most successful training podcasts - The Canine Paradigm

We are extremely privileged to have Glenn with us on the show.

SHOW NOTES:

Learning resources for teaching canine behaviour which has many hours of education.

  • https://www.patreon.com/thecanineparadigm
  • www.petresortsaustralia.com
  • www.canineevolution.com.au

Podcasts Glenn is involved with and produce are:

  • The Canine Paradigm https://thecanineparadigm.com/podcasts/
  • The Podcast for Pet Carers https://www.instagram.com/podcastforpetcarers/

TRANSCRIPT:

Hey, everyone, I'm Gabe Perera. And welcome back to another episode of A Modern Animal. With me, of course, the inimitable the gorgeous Dr. Michael Woodrow.

One of those words, I can spell them.

We're incredibly fortunate to have with us one of Australia's, I'd probably say even say one of the world's top animal behaviorists, Glenn Cooke. Glenn, welcome.

That's incredibly generous intro. Thank you.

Glenn, if you'll permit me. And if our listeners will permit me, I've printed off your bio just because it is rather expensive. And behind the scenes, Glenn is the partner of Narelle Cooke, who was the incredible animal naturopath that we had on a couple of episodes ago. So, Glenn, thank you very much for joining us. And thank you, Narelle, for introducing us to Glenn. So, Glenn, it says here that you've been successfully training people and their dogs. And I think that's a critical point for more than 28 years. And I know you've just finished a whole body of work, I think, with police dogs. Am I getting that right?

So I just finished a two week stint with a company called Red Team, where they work with government agencies on teaching the canine unit homemade explosives. So my expertise in that is working with the dogs. So there's a team of three. One of the gentlemen, Andrew Co, is a major in the army. He also has a chemistry background. The other gentleman, his name is Quinton. He's a warrant officer, and he's also been a bomb technician. So he has expertise in field, and my expertise was in the dog work. So we combined together to come together, and it's a whole education package. And there's nothing like it. It's absolutely brilliant. And I'm incredibly fortunate to be included in that team and be a part of that educational for our armed forces and our government agencies.

Amazing. You're active at a national level from an association point of view. You also own and manage pet resorts. You told me at the outset of the call you're involved in multiple species between dogs and cats as well.

Sorry, I don't own it. I just better put that caveat in there. I'm the general manager.

I beg your pardon. Where did you get your start with animals? I mean, you've obviously got an incredible passion and now a level of expertise that's probably, as we said earlier, world class. How did you get your start?

Long story short, I've always been extremely fascinated with dogs. It was my Uncle Lee who introduced me to dogs. He had a wife, Marana, and he was very actively involved in hunting and shooting and, sorry, hunting and fishing. And he took me away with him. And I was watching his dog work in the field with him. And I just couldn't believe that this animal like if we went rabbit shooting or something like that, this dog would go actually go running off into the Bush, sit there for ten minutes at a time, find the rabbit, and then bring it back to him delicately and then place it at his feet. I used to say to him, how did you do that? And he used to laugh and said, it's magic a little kid at the time. But as I got older, he kind of revealed what he was doing. And it was that that really intrigued me. And as I said, I've always had a kinship to dogs. Funnily enough, I was born in the year of the dog, okay? It was a calling. It was just every other job that I've been involved in. I've been an electrician and I worked in sales and I've worked in private law enforcement myself. But it was always the dogs that kept calling me. And it wasn't until I got a dog called Harley, who was a Rottweiler cross. And I was then enrolled in a group called Australian Dog Training, where I met my original first mentor, a guy called Boyd Hooper, who originally introduced me to private law enforcement, working dogs and also obedience, socialization. But then not only that, we really got deep into the weeds of behavioral Sciences. And he was the originator of an organization called the National Dog Trainers Federation, which has expanded exponentially and changed hands since then. But I'm still involved with them today. But it's just been an incredible journey of starting with the love and the joy of owning an incredible dog who really did turn out to be an amazing dog and leapfrogging into so many different career opportunities and so many introductions with some amazing mentors and coaches in the industry.

Amazing. Well, I'm going to be flagrantly using this podcast because I've got a Hungarian Vizsla who does not have behavioral issues but has anxiety. So, true story. We got back from years overseas with her and then just found that as she got a little bit older, her behavioral patterns are starting to erode a little bit. Not her commands so much, but just she was getting a bit weird, particularly anxiety. And so we went and saw, I think she's a Dutch dog trainer here in Sydney. And it was funny because as you said, it's actually more about the person than it is the dog sometimes. And so her first Port of call was me. My partner got it down Pat. She's fine. She's very organized. She's very disciplined. And she said, essentially, Gabe, you've broken in inverted commas to be the pack dynamic with this dog. And I always remember the words she said, you're giving her a huge amount of love but very little leadership. What's your response to that? And I don't think I'm alone in that dynamic with a dog. For me, the dog is another kid. Right. And probably, to be honest, he gets lavished with more love and affection than the kids do sometimes. So one example is you're leaving the dog park. Don't wait for her to figure out what's happening. Just go was one of the instructions from this particular lady. I'd love your perspective on that.

There's so many compounds that result in how a dog turns out, and it can be. So I'm just going to introduce a little concept that is very important for people to understand. And I think it was way back in the 50 Sixties where a dynamic team of Dr. John Paul Scott and John Fuller did a lot of extensive research on the critical period of socialization. And it was specifically Dr. John Paul Scott who founded the critical period of development, which is the window of, let's arguably say six to 16 weeks. And some people say it even extends slightly beyond that, but we'll say six to 16 weeks. So if in that period of time, the dog isn't introduced to a correct social environment, and what I mean by that is introduced to people, introduced to all of the world's offering of stimuli, correctly done and appropriately done, and even introduced to appropriate levels of stresses, which is very important when you research the works of Dr. Robert Sapolsky and many other behaviorists who have been involved in the neurological development of puppies and how they should family. They come to an understanding that if you don't introduce your puppies to adequate levels of stress during their development, it creates a long term problem for them, a problem that they'll never adapt from. So that can be one issue. That can be one thing that creates a problematic behavioral outcome for dogs. The other outcome is as suggested by the person that you consulted with. You. Was this a lady in the Shire?

No. Northern beaches.

Northern beaches. Okay.

I'm taking notes, by the way.

Great. Terrific.

As am I.

So if we're talking about just the behavior of a dog, a dog is very much like a whiteboard to begin with. A blank whiteboard. Okay. It naturally starts its life off doing the things that a puppy or a dog would do. So until you start entering information and coordinates and data of what you want the dog to do and how the dog is to fit into your lifestyle, the dog will buck against that

Can I interject with a quick question? Don't lose your train of thought.

Yeah.

I'm trying to apply a modern animal context list. Right. So many of us now don't necessarily interact directly with breeders. We might get our dogs on Gumtree or we might get it from a shelter, or we may get it from a breeder. But in our case with Willow, the Hungarian visualo, she came across to us on a flight from the breeder at twelve weeks. I want to say pretty young often be twelve weeks, wouldn't it? Yeah, pretty young. How relevant is that? To your point earlier? How relevant is that socialization process within their infancy?

I guess that's a great question. A really good one, because that can have an impact on the overall social. Yeah, it can. Because if the dog is very insular during that time and hasn't really had a lot of exposure and then suddenly going into a home where maybe the person that you got the dog didn't really educate you on what your requirements are going forward as a handler and owner of that dog and a partner with that dog in its relationship, and that happens extensively.

This is interesting. I reckon you'd agree with me, Mike and Glen. They let us have kids with no license. Put my hand right up really as high as I can as a new parent. I had no freaking idea what I was doing right. And I think the same can be said for dogs. Right. As you did the great fortune of growing up with a mentor who was an animal specialist. In some ways, most people don't have a clue when they get a new puppy. What the heck, too. They go to the pet store, maybe talk to their vet. Most of us are operating without a license. Well, that's fundamentally correct, because who really tells us?

Let me cast back into when I first got involved in it, which was late 80s, early 90s, we didn't have this luxury of having the Internet where we could Zoom calls or we could access the thesaurus of the world in moments. We had to actually get off our bums and walk and go to libraries or buy book, which is what I was doing in those early days. Like I didn't have that initial introduction to great mentors. I actually had to do some leg work myself and speak to people and go to clubs and talk to people about it and do a little homework before I actually got that dog. So I was very fortunate to be even my mother at that time. She used to say to me, if you're going to go off and get a puppy, you owe it to that pup to give it its best outcome in its life. You need to really know what you're getting involved in and understand the breed and the requirements of the dog, the diet, and so forth. I took that on board and I listened to what she said, and I really went on an investigatory journey of trying to find out what it was that I could do to really enhance the lifestyle of that dog. And some people just aren't that fortunate. They don't know that. They don't understand that. When you get a dog, there's a foundation that needs to be set up. No one really explains that to them. It is getting much better these days. And there is a plethora of information. If people take five minutes to go looking for it, a lot is correct and a lot is not a lot is very misleading when people start to look at it. So people should take their time. And what they also should do is not impulsively, rush off just to find somebody who's charismatic and entertaining. There's a lot of people on social media these days who are attractive. They look the part. They're entertainers rather than they are behaviorists and trainers. So they have a very much an entertaining background. And some of those people actually get it very right. Like they have done their homework right. And not only are they entertaining, but they also are very profound in what they know. I've listened to some of them. I thought, well, not only are they accurate what they're saying, but I'm actually picking up some interesting new information. Yeah, I pick up some interesting hooks here and there from what they're saying, and I even include it in some of the information I pass on. So that's very important. And leading back to your original question, when we start getting involved in the foundations of how to set up a dog and how to include it in the lifestyle of a new human household, dogs don't understand that to begin with. So when I see a lot of clients and they say to me, my dog has been really badly behaved, and I said, it's not badly behaving it's just behaving it's doing what it understands. So it doesn't understand yet to behave in a direction that you want. It just understands. I'm a dog, and this is the genetic hardwiring that's been given to me in my breed and species that make up the calling of what I should do and how I should do it. So until time where the dog has gone through a process of learning how to do something and then transitioning into proofing on what it should do in later adulthood or later experiences, it won't do them because it doesn't understand it yet. And it would be like me putting a piano in front of you and saying, now play, yeah, don't do it. And then I scold you and saying, you're being very badly behaved, you're playing. Why can't you play?

Exactly.

So instead of giving you the opportunity to learn incrementally through stages, which is not a course, it's a process that I remind people, which I call it a metric system of millimeter centimeter and then meter, and it progresses on from you have to do the little steps, the little incremental paces to remember that you're dealing with a very juvenile brain. So dogs have the brain set of around about a three year old for the rest of life, where we have this expansive cognition, where we have a lot of the ability of deductive reasoning.

They do have it, but they're limited in what they do, but they're operating at a toddler level effectively out there, human toddler level, and that's at a fully grown dog phase.

So, again, to reach back into what I originally said during my opening and talking about scent work, like if you were to compare the old factory system of a dog to the way that we think it's a crossover effect, like they smell the way we think. So their ability to detect and their ability to understand odor and comprehensive and detailed and even down to very small molecular levels, they can process it in such a fashion that is alien to us.

Got it.

Our deductive reasoning, our ability to reach into the universe, to think of ourselves and be very self aware, and also to invent things like conceptual reasoning as well. Right. The dogs obviously don't have that. Well, they can't do any of this. Computers and all the things that we take for granted on a daily basis that we used to. Well, at a long time ago, but now kind of look at it and go, it's redundant already. Yeah. To them, this is alien technology. Yeah. So if we understand that, then we can give them a bit of a break and say to them, it's not fair that I put so much responsibility on you when I really haven't taken the time to teach you how to do it. Right and incrementally do it and set you up on a daily basis not only to show you how to do it, but also how to win the game fundamentally. I think that's interesting. Well, that's the thing that I say to a lot of people is teach your dog what's the game and how do I win it?

Okay. So I'm going to dig in and double click on that. But I wanted to go back. So we've got a whole raft of questions which I want to try and get to. I know we're conscious of time. Let's do two things. Let's do a scenario. So scenario one, you get an owner, an owner, just as they bought their new puppy, or they've just brought in a rescue. But the rescue, let's assume the rescue is not psychologically damaged too much. They've got all the money and the time in the world, and they've got a desperate interest in being the best dog parent, best pet parent they can be. What do you tell them? What process do you follow?

First, best case. Obviously, no one is going to be the best case. There's a myriad of things that's on offer there. First of all, this is where Doctor Mike would come into context, because I generally go and say, get your dog checked out by your vet, make sure that they give them a clean bill of health. They may do some Bloods, they make sure their vaccinations are up to date, they check their joints

That's interesting because we had another vet on yesterday last time, like Dr. Matt Muir, who said, in an ideal situation, sorry to interrupt you, Glenn. Come to me as a veterinarian long before you have any problems. So you're saying essentially the same thing?

Well, I suggest that the dog learns who the vet is and has a relationship with them. Rather than go to them for something adverse and have a negative experience, they go to the vets. And vets are getting much better these days with behavioral knowledge, with dogs like rather than reach them up onto the table like they would in the old days and just give them a shot or stick something on their bum, they now spend some time, they give some liver treats, they get to know the client, they get to know the dog, and they're becoming more behaviorally aware as they're going on as well. So they're actually getting involved in teaching their staff about behavior and enrolling in behavioral understandings. There's been times where I've been teaching a lot of vets and vet nurses over the longitivity of my three decades in the experience, which is great. We're actually reaching out and having a collaborative network together. So I think that's really important that see you at first. You've got a new puppy. See that first get a baseline. Yeah.

Dr. Mike, how important do you think that is?

Yeah, absolutely important. And what I've noticed is that the industry is actually getting on board, and what we're seeing is new generations of vets who come through. I think the profession is populated by people who have a passion for pets, but it's very easy to become clinically distracted. And, in fact, the more toys we get in our practice, the higher the risk. I think we're coming through a full circle and say, actually what really matters is let's start with the pet and with the pet human bond as the foundation. So, Glenn, I think you're absolutely spot on.

So from the vet side of things and leading into developing the relationship with the vet, we also have a relationship with food.

Correct.

Feeding a dog as well. And this is why I'm so incredibly fortunate to be married to Narelle, because she's taken me down an incredible path of supplements and feeding and a lot of the problems that we've had with our own dogs, especially Randy, our working line German Shepherd. He had a lot of ear issues until we switched diet, and he still has them occasionally. We've just had a borrowed weather lately where it's just been nonstop rain and humidity and all the rest of it. Yeah. And because he's a hairy black colored dog with thick bushy Mane around his ears and everything like that he really suffers in that hot weather. So prior to that, it was all the time, like he had ear problems all the time. Now it's sparingly. His diet is much better. He's fitter. And trust me, he doesn't need any more energy. He's like the Tasmanian Devil. The relationship with food is very important as it is with us. We so often think about the things that we need to eat. And Gabriel, you're a supplement person as well. That's part of your industry. And you and Narelle are collaborative on that. You've been talking together and liaising with each other over things like that. So you get it, and so does Dr. Mike. You all get it. Understand.

So let's be controversial for a second. Again, money is no object. What's the optimal diet are you advocating?

Raw. We are. We are advocating raw. And if we're advocating any type of a Kibble, where we're advocating a sensible type of a kibble, where it's more aligned to a better processed Kibble, and also correct supplementation as well. So sometimes there are things that dogs are not getting in a natural diet that we need to supplement the same thing that we do. Like I supplement every day. Noelle has a supplement regime all the time for stress. And it's just that like dealing with the job that I have to do. And totally, these are very important things. So we're very considerate of that. But then we have to think of the dogs as well. If we're going to do it, why aren't we thinking about our cats and dogs in that sense? And even captive birds like the importance of captive birds, like not just eating a bland diet, but actually having an enriched diet where they're actually eating, getting nutritional foods. So the relationship with a vet, having adequate diet, and then also the importance, as I said before, about having a proper social outcome with the dog and having an integral obedience routine with the dog, but not so much. Let's not talk about it so much as obedience, but more so as behavior, the understanding and the network of behavior. So in order for a dog to live its best life, it's kind of like the Holy Trinity of health is proper veterinary care and making sure that everything is sound on that part. Proper diet, nutrition, and then adequate education. I think that summarizes nicely what I think is considerable for a healthy overall dog.

Thank you. From what I'm hearing, you say you've taken, as assumed, unlimited love, cuddles kisses, hugs from the family. I actually think that love and affection is and play especially play.

It's critical. I mean, if you look at some of the science or the data that comes back, which we're always learning about and being reinforced about new things that science is finding out, and especially since the invention of FMRIs, has been able to map how a dog's brain reacts to certain forms of stimuli, yeah. We can see things now like we can see regions of the brain. Whereas when I was younger, we were told that dogs are fundamentally just working machines. Well, they be suburban, basically. They just do what they're told. And if they don't, you knock them into conformity. But they're very much thinking, feeling, loving animals. They're part of an integral species relationship that we have. So we need to understand them better, and we need to make sure in order for them to learn, the environment has to be found. It's the same thing for us. A stressful environment means that you will be receptive to more stress and less learning, where an environment which is enriched and loving and kind and compassionate and thoughtful will be one that allows that dog to really learn and really take on the message that you're trying to deliver.

I love that man. I think that's absolutely beautiful.

It is like I love and talk to and kiss my dogs. I know that they don't understand the origins of the language and so forth, but they understand the compassion that's coming from it. And I think that if you're involved in having a pet in your lifestyle, rather than just having a dog that turns dog food into dog poo, you should have something that is part of your active life. It's a relationship.

It's a real relationship. It's absolutely a relationship. And our pets are primarily empaths. Oftentimes as I'm putting my dogs to bed at night, I'm going to close the door, lock the dogs, going to turn off the lights and put the dogs to bed. And often as I'm kind of walking out of the room, I just stop and just kneel down and just say, you've done good today. And the thing is, who gets the most out of that? Because I got to say, I get a fair bit out of that.

I was going to say the feedback that we actually get for having pets in our lives, I just don't think we take the time sometimes to realize how lucky we are. No, I mean, you study the ancestral sort of patterns. I'm going way off piece here for a second. There is a school of science that says our human microbiome has evolved in concert almost or in lockstep with our interactions with animals and particular dogs as we've gone along through history.

Incredible. Yeah, it is incredible. I mean, the science that we actually find out of the benefits of mental health and physical health that an animal brings us having that symbiotic relationship with them in our lives. Gabriel, one point I didn't want to talk about before when we were talking about the aspects of learning was that there's science. That is a proven fact that if you incorporate play into learning, then the retention is upwards of 80%. So that's one of the things that we definitely do encourage. When you're talking about cuddles and kisses and play, play is definitely very important. A lot of times, even when I'm working with some of these government agency people where they think I've had people suggest to me that maybe these dogs don't have the best lifestyle where I can attest that they have a wonderful lifestyle.

Is that right? Interesting

The men and women that are involved in this, they feel extremely there's a real bond important. They love what they do and they love those dogs so much. And even though those dogs are in high risk situations, they are incredibly bound to that dog. And in such a way where you watch the relationship between them and the pride of seeing their dog working and the escalation of the dog getting better. And it's work, it's very emotional. Sometimes you look at it, you think, wow, what a powerful scene I'm looking at. That's good.

Okay, so I'm going to recap. So you got the new puppy again. And I'm so thrilled to hear you say these words. One of our propositions, I guess, as you write this as supplement owners or supplement brands, veterinarians dog owners, is to enable our dogs to live their best lives, our animals to live their best lives. So I'm so excited to hear you say those words as well. So vet care, get the diet sorted, speak to experts as you need to during that process, and then your words, adequate education. And obviously this sort of underpinning of play and love and care, which we've just spent a bit of time discussing. Let's double click on the adequate education. What does that mean, practically?

So that's something that never really ends. It's a question that people ask me considerably throughout my career and said to me, when does it end? When can I stop training? Pretty much, yeah. It's not like you have to go to classes all the time. Like, you don't have to continually go along to a training class or continually pay for private lessons. But the uptake of knowledge never really ends. Like your dog is learning all the time, anytime it's around you. And this is why dogs do pick up bad behavior sometimes is because they're watching things that you are creating in your lifestyle that you are subsequently unaware of. But you're allowing the dog to repeat those behaviors on an ongoing basis. And then when you wonder, why is the dog doing this? Where is this behavior coming from? Why am I seeing a repeat of this behavior on a regular basis? Well, dogs are products of their environment, and what you reward, you get more often. So reinforcement basically means that you will see an extension of that behavioral line extending into the dog's behavior. So if the dog finds anything, it's doing as reinforcing. And people say, well, I didn't reinforce it, well, it might not be intentional reinforcement, but if the dog finds it reinforcing and it's the same thing for us, we do things that we find comfort or reinforcement in. So we continually do it and we find it reinforcing. We're going to continue to do that behavior. So there's a lot of times where people say to me, why is it happening? And I said, because the dog likes it. It finds it satisfying. Sometimes when the dog is actually initiating some form of response to something and it gets a big dopamine dump out of it, well, it feels good. Dopamine. It makes you feel good when you're getting a huge cycle of it. So if the dog is cycling up on dopamine, it's going to feel good about the situation, therefore find it habitually reinforcing to keep doing the behavior over and over again. So we've got to look at that cycle and look at how do we break the cycle and how do we create some sort of adversity around that. So the dog thinks, well, maybe I don't like it anymore, maybe this doesn't give me there it feels good, it doesn't feel as good, or I don't receive the same opportunities by doing the behavior. So it looks to create extinction of that behavior to make the behavior reduced significantly or ultimately go away. And the way we do that is we start showing the dog, as I said before, that this behavior is adverse and it leads to negative outcomes. Whereas if you do other behaviors and you direct the dog into the line where you want the dog to see the correct form of behavior, then the dog can see reason for doing that. And it understands that this path is a successful path and any healthy species. And I need to put that in as a caveat. There the concept of healthy, because the unhealthy mind will often do things that you wouldn't assume would be favorable, because the healthy mind will rationalize carefully of what things are, what things are positive and what aren't. So primarily that's what we want to do is we want to teach our puppies and our dogs, whether it be something you got from a breeder or something you got through rescue or whatever, how to understand what you want and what is the objective overall and how does the dog win in this situation? I re read a book that I read years ago called The Seven Habits of Highly Successful People by Stephen Cove. Classic. Yeah. And he talks about relationships like the ultimate relationship is a win win relationship. They're not a win lose or a lose lose relationship like you're always looking into in order for you to win. It makes me win. And that's what we need to work with with our dogs is we need to very much cycle ourselves in the concept of a win win relationship. Because if ultimately, if the dog is doing the behavioral onset that you want it to do, then you're winning. And then the dog learns, well, not only am I winning, but sorry, not only is the person winning but I'm winning as well. The dog doesn't really understand the concept of you winning. It just looks at it's kind of selfish in a way. It's kind of looking at how do I win this all the time? And what you do is you set up this foundation where you make the dog believe it's winning by playing the game that you're constructing.

Right. How do we do that? I guess will probably make it easier for me to understand and probably our listeners as well. Mike is examples. I know, Mike, you've got 1000 clinical practice, but one that Springs to mind is, again, my dog apologies. I'm using this as a professional consultation. She's the most beautiful personality on the planet. But for some reason, as she's gotten older, when someone comes to the front door of the office so she's next door to me at the moment or the front door of our home goes berserk barking, her sort of deep, scary voice bark and then runs the door. And this is a brand new behavior. So it's no more than probably six months old, as I said. Otherwise, just a very gentle, very loving dog, super affectionate. And I don't get the sense that the Barker's aggressive. It's more her panicked.

I think I'll let Dr. Mike go first.

Yeah. And I think what we're going to start to open up are some of the scenarios that either we ourselves are experiencing or our next door neighbors or the people near the barbecues, and they're saying, oh, I've got when the phone rings or when I leave or when I come home or when the person delivers. And I suppose for me, in practice, what I'm leaning on are some really basic investigative skills to say, has there been some episode of trauma or something which has been a triggering in the past? And is there a path towards desensitization where we can, in a controlled sense, set up and recreate and then roleplay this new game where we can set the win, which I've just got to say. And the message I'm hearing from you, Glenn, is this idea of commitment and intentionality just to say they're worth it, they're even worth the inconvenience of the time. And you go, really? Do I really have to deal with this? And you go, you know what?

Yeah, you do. Because in the same way as I do this for my kids, I've taken responsibility plan over here. I absolutely agree with the message you're going with. And the technical term that we explain it is counter conditioning. So if the dog is conditioned to behave a certain way and a lot of times, running and barking at the door is a very rewardful behavior. Some people mislead it for the dog being anxious, and in some cases, they can be not everything can be diagnosed with just waving a wand and doing some behavioral tricks and then fixing the problem. Sometimes it is deep seated and that's when the conversation with the vet has to come into play, as in people, sometimes in occasion you need to look at the inclusion of perhaps some form of medication to help calm the dog down. Most of the time prior to doing that, we exhaust all the behavioral applications first. So we actually look at it as, are you conditioned to do this? When you hear the door ring, it stimulates a behavioral response from you, and then you get rewarded for doing it because then people come to the door. When the door opens, it's a very much a rapid onset of things happening. So the door Bell rings, there's stimulation from that noise, then there are people outside, which also includes odor as well. That's right. Yeah. So there's movement, there's activity, and then there's you sprinting for the door. Yeah, that and alone is very stimulating. Yeah, it is very stimulating. What do you call it? What's the word I'm looking for? Arousal. That's the word. A lot of arousal. Trees a lot of arousal. So while that's all going on and while the dog is responding to that high level of arousal, like the dogs seeing you run to the door, there's people at the door, there's a lot of activity, and then the dog only has to learn to bark one time and then feel rewarded for it. Like it wasn't necessarily rewarded for it, but at bark one time opened the door up, there's all these people, everyone's patting the dog and jumping on top of it, the dogs jumping around, mayhem erupts, and the dog thinks, wow, wasn't that awesome? That was just a cocktail. That's a massive dopamine done right away. Like, as soon as the doorbell rings, the dopamine spike goes up, the dope runs out and all that. There's a little stress involved, and there's a lot of arousal involved, but the juice is worth the squeeze for the dog in that situation. So sometimes even you're going, get down, stop it like that. But there's more hope in the behavior completing from the dog than there is in you thinking that you're reducing the behavior by trying to take seconds to stop this behavior in this maybe years to create this conditioned response.

Got it.

So what we need to do then is we need to change the way the dog thinks and feels about the sound of the Bell. And this is where a lot of people aren't willing to do it. And this is why the behavior won't go away, because unfortunately, with onset behaviors where they've been conditioned over a long period of time, it also takes time to get rid of it, to create that extinction process or to condition the dog to switch how it feels about it, all the responses it gives to the stimuli of the Bell ringing. So in situations like that, what we would generally do, long story short, is we would ring the Bell or even buy the same sort of Bell from Bunnings by you sitting on the couch. Have the dog realize, oh, there's nothing going on over the door because the dog will run to the door. Then it will start realizing that nothing is actually happening there. So it starts to realize. And you've got to explain to visitors and you've got to be very careful that you don't accidentally reinforce this while you're trying to do it. But you got to do this over a period of time where you start teaching the dog the extinction of nothing happens. When the doorbell goes off, the dog starts realizing, I'm not getting rewarded. Nobody's at the door. But what we then start doing is ringing the doorbell and teaching the dog to instead of running to the door, go to a place marker, like a bed, like its bed, or go to its crate or run into another room or whatever it is. And then a high level of reinforcement followed. Treats. Treat dog. Yeah. So the dog starts realizing the doorbell means something else. It doesn't run to the door anymore. That was my old programming. My new programming is to do the other thing that you're teaching me. So again, this takes time, and this is where we've got to make sure that we don't allow a mistake to happen in this because what we can do sometimes and what we don't really want to do is accidentally create superstitious behaviors because let me tell you, you create a superstitious behavior in your dog that is the most strengthened and reinforced behavior that you can. Can you explain that a superstitious behavior is something that creeps in, that the dog doesn't quite understand why it did it, but it feels that it was necessary. The same thing with us, like when we spill salt, we throw salt out of our shop. Like some people you say, Why did you do that? And they go, I don't know. My mom used to do it, but they can't sort of break the habit. And you see them doing it and you look at them and you point them laugh and they go and they get angry about it, but they can't help it. It's something that their grandmother did it. Their mother did it and they did it. So it's something that they feel will keep them safe. Their grandmother told them the woo about how the devil would get in you if you didn't hold over your shoulder. So they feel the same way. And dogs feel that same way through certain types of behaviors. So some is learned behavior. The worst of them is superstitious behavior. I've never heard that term before. Lady bugle, French Bulldog. She's got a superstitious behavior of whenever she sees the lizards appear around spring and summertime. She got in the house one day and it poked its head under the door and she caught it and killed it. She now looks behind the door every single day and I thought the likelihood of that ever occurring again will be one in a million. And the next lizard appeared and she caught it and killed it again.

Seriously.

And I'm sitting there and I've got sparks flying out of my head because I'm thinking this will extinguish over a period of time. She'll learn it's never going to happen again, but it happened again, and it reinforced the superstitious behavior. So every single day she sits behind the door and stares at the door crack for sure. So she'll wait there. She'll wait for hours at a time staring at the door, waiting for that lizard to appear, even though the likelihood of it happening now, that was one in 365 Jews from one in a million, because it happened again. It reinforced it all again. She has meaning and purpose behind it. Yeah, of course. So she goes back and repeats that behavior and to try and get rid of it. Man, let me tell you the full superstitious behaviors, like you really wish that it would leap into a desirable behavior because then they're so strong. That behavior is so well reinforced that you don't have to do a lot of ongoing work to keep the behavior up. It's perpetually reinforcing for the dog over a long period of time, but it often happens to things that you don't want no real control over. It's just that the environment has allowed an unfavorable onset of unfortunate events to come together to reinforce the dog. So getting back to the doorbell thing, if it's not a superstitious event, the main thing is that the dog has got to learn that the old behavior is no longer favorable, that there is a same stimuli, which is the doorbell ringing. And instead of having that classical effect, which Ivan Pavlov was very famous with, the Bell and the salivation, yes, the doorbell does the same thing. It gives the dog a classical effect. It makes the dog think of the outcome of the reward. So we've got to change that. So we changed that classical effect and make the dog feel emotionally different about the sound of the Bell in running to its bed and then receiving response. So there's two types of conditioning that occur in animals, and this gets a little scientific, and people at home are following along. If they've ever done any behavioral work at school, they've probably heard these terms. But if you haven't, it's interesting to look up one is Pavlovian or classical. It's the same thing explained differently. It was called Pavlovian to honor Ivan Pavlov, who came up with it. That's very much a subconscious reaction. It's a reflex behavior. So if you're stimulated by something, it brings on a feeling. It's the same way when we look at money, we're stimulated to feel what the money will do for us. So when we see money, even though it's just printed paper, that's all it is. It's just paper with printing on it when we see it, we can think of a myriad of things that will attract to our lives. The other type of conditioning is what's called operand or instrumental conditioning, where you're very much aware of your behavior and the outcome. So you can actually choose a line of what you'll do. So even though you say that, I mean, there's still foolish people out there who are aware that some behaviors will lead to an untimely outcome or an unfortunate or a negative outcome, but yet they'll still do the behavior outcome anyway. And you'll think, why? But that comes back to sometimes when you're talking about the healthy mind versus the unhealthy mind. So in an operating response, you're very much in control of what happens. You sit back and summarize, if I do this, the outcome will be good. So the likelihood of me doing it again will be much greater. What's the gradual thinking? Yeah. Whereas if I do this and then it's unfavorable or adverse, it's going to lead to something very negative happening to me. So I want to reduce the impact of that happening in my life. These sort of things, understanding these and how this can affect the lifestyle and outcomes of the dog's relationship in the human home, it has a profound effect on the results that you'll get and how you feel about having that relationship with the dog. And in cases where people are on the edge of whether to keep the dog or not, which is a problem that I face a lot where I come into myself and my colleagues come into full effect is we sit there and try and help people fall in love with their dog all over again to remember that that little beautiful puppy that they had, even though that it's grown five times the size and it's more powerful and the drives of the dog and the instincts of the dog are kicking in. What we can do is we can show them with a little work every day working that millimeter centimeter and meter prospect. You can now have a dog that understands how to speak the language of how you can speak a language that translates into an achievable outcome with the dog.

So you can teach an old dog new tricks?

Absolutely, you can. I mean, I can learn things every decade that I turn a decade older, I always teach myself a new thing.

I have to say, I'm not wearing a hat. You are. But if I had a hat, I'd take it off to you, man, because I think the approach you've just articulated is so beautiful. Thank you. And it's so animal centric, which is just phenomenal, Glenn,

just as both Gabe and I have been taking notes, but what I feel like we've been able to cover today has just been for me, it's been quite a foundational session, and it's covered many of the principles. And I'm just aware of time. And Gabe I'm wondering whether perhaps we could reconvene and take it to the next level. If Glenn's open to it, I'd be delighted. I think it'd be a privilege to have you back on that.

Thank you, both of you, gentlemen. That's a lovely compliment. And yes, I'd love to come back and chat with you further. I think that would be wonderful. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

I feel like we've got one 10th through our list. Mike, I think those foundations that you were talking about, which is, let's set up to win that episode two, I reckon. Set up to win.

Yeah. Well, let's recap on those questions. And if you've got listeners of the show who have got anything interesting that they want to share or try and deep dive into a little bit more, we can try and uncover something about that.

Thank you. And Glenn, just in the closing minutes of this call, anything you want to promote, anything you'd like us to shout out about. I know you've got your beautiful podcast as well.

The Canine Paradigm. Yeah, the Canine Paradigm with my co host Pat Stewart. I will put a caveat in place and just say that there is some adult language and they're from time to time. We made that very clear at the start that this is a podcast for adults, so it's very informative. We've interviewed guests all over the world, and we've also shared our ideas and gone on a collaborative journey of investigation over time and changed our mind on the way we approach training and the concepts of what we think about. Well, I've got the opportunity to do a shout out as well. Please shut up. Pet Resort Australia, which is the pet care facility that I work for and manage. I'm the general manager of that. We have now eight facilities around Australia. We just branched into Queensland. Thank you, Dr. Mike. I left Melbourne with Narrell on a Women of Prayer to come up when we were a very small, struggling company. And we're now eight strong, and we're expanding and we're really kicking some major goals. We've got a great team of just amazing, dedicated, talented young people, predominantly young ladies, that are working for us, and I'm so proud of. And they do such a wonderful job and they work. I mean, we've had floods and all sorts of adverse events going on, but covert and everything. But these girls, these young people, their dedication and their love for animals, I just can't say enough great things about them. And probably last, the training company that I also work with, I'm the trained director of is Canine Evolution. Once again, if you'll send us through those links to all those elements, we'll pop those in the show notes and get them out to our audience as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Can do. Thanks, everyone, for joining. As always, you can find all the resources that we've mentioned and some of the resources that Glenn is going to send through to us after the show in the show notes I just wanted to thank our incredible guest, Glen Cook. Glenn. Thank you so much.

My pleasure.

Dr. Mike as always thank you so much for your time and thank you everyone for tuning in we'll see you next time on.

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Integrative Veterinary Medicine in action

In this fascinating episode of A Modern Animal, Gabe and Dr Mike are joined by leading Integrative Veterinarian Dr Matthew Muir. Together they will discuss:

  • Dr Matt Muir's journey to become an integrative practitioner
  • The shift in disease patterns Dr Matt Muir observed his practice and the hypothesis about why this might be taking place
  • The 2 groups of pets Dr Matt Muir treats everyday in his practice and what it means for Integrative Veterinary Medicine
  • A typical case study with practical applications and treatment plan
  • The gut, liver, skin and brain axis
  • Adaptogens - what they are and their benefits

It is undisputed that most pharmaceutical medicine come from herbal medicine or plants to begin with - Dr Matt Muir

Ashwagandha KSM-66 is probably the number 1 adaptogen that I like and use the most - Dr Matt Muir

ABOUT OUR GUEST - DR MATT MUIR:

  • Integrative Veterinarian and Director at All Natural Vet Care in Sydney
  • BVSc/BVetBiol (Hons) MRCVS
  • CIVT Certified Herbalist

Matt has been a life-long animal lover and knew from the tender age of 3 that he wanted to become a veterinarian.

Fast forward a few years, Dr Matt Muir graduated from Charles Sturt University in 2010 with a double degree in Veterinary Science and Veterinary Biology with first-class Honours when he also completed a one-year field research project on the microbiome and nutrition.

Matt practiced as a mixed animal general practitioner in both Australia and the UK and joined the All Natural Vet Care practice in 2015 where he worked under the mentorship of Dr. Barbara Fougere, one of the pioneers of integrative medicine.

Matt has since completed further studies in Western Herbal Medicine, Chinese Herbal Medicine and Chinese Food therapies, providing integrative medicine consultation to pet parents throughout Australia encompassing conventional, complementary & alternative therapies.

Dr Matt Muir is also the co-founder (Head of Product) of pet food brand / service Lyka.

Finally, Matt also volunteers at Taronga Wildlife Hospital and is currently working towards a Masters in Conservation Medicine.

We are truely humbled to welcome Dr. Matt Muir to A Modern Animal podcast.

SHOW NOTES:

  • All Natural Vet Care's website: https://www.allnaturalvetcare.com
  • Lyka's website: https://lyka.com.au

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Holistic approach to skin health

Today we are very pleased to welcome Narelle Cooke, a Naturopath, Herbalist and Animal Nutritionist as our first guest expert on A Modern Animal.

Together with our co hosts Dr Mike and Gabe, they will discuss:

  • How Narelle combined her knowledge and passion to treat both human patients and their pets.
  • Why so many dogs present with skin issues
  • The role of diet in managing skin problems
  • How healing the gut could lead to improved skin health
  • Stress, the immune system and their impact on the skin
  • Practical first steps towards skin health solutions for pet parents

Even small changes on a daily basis over time can lead to huge benefits for pet health - Narelle Cooke

ABOUT OUR GUEST - NARELLE COOKE:

Narelle Cooke is an accredited Clinical Naturopath, Nutritionist and Herbalist, and operate her own wellness clinic ‘Natural Health and Nutrition’ in Sydney.

Being a life-long pet owner Narelle is also super passionate about the health and wellbeing of pets as she is about their owners.

Narelle has an incredibly strong scientific background in both human and pet health and holds the following qualifications:

Human Health:

· Bachelor of Health Science (Naturopathy) (ACNT)
· Bachelor of Agricultural Science (honours) (The University of Melbourne)
· Advanced Diploma of Naturopathy (AIAS)
· Advanced Diploma of Nutritional Medicine (AIAS)
· Advanced Diploma of Western Herbal Medicine (AIAS)
· Certificate IV in Assessment and Training
· Fitgenes Accredited Practitioner

Pet Health:

· Certificate III in Dog Behaviour and Training (NDTF)
· Certificate in Natural Animal Nutrition (CIVT)
· Certificate in Animal Nutrition (HATO) · Certificate In Animal Health Sciences (CIVT) · Certified Pet Food and Raw Food Nutrition Specialist · Certified Acute Canine Herbalism Specialist · Advanced Canine Nutrition Specialist

She is a registered member of the Australian Traditional Medicine Society (ATMS) and practice according to their professional Code of Conduct.

We are very excited to have Narelle on the show and couldn't think of anyone more suited as our first guest expert on A Modern Animal.

SHOW NOTES:

  • Narelle's website: https://naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au
  • Narelle's contact email: narelle@naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au
  • Discount coupon code for 50% off online course ‘How to understand commercial pet food labels’ - LABELS50OFF
    Accessible from Narelle's website shop: https://naturalhealthandnutrition.com.au/product/understanding-commercial-pet-food-labels/

Good evidence-based resources for pet owners:

  • Planet Paws (Dr Karen Becker & Rodney Habib): https://www.insidescoop.pet
  • College of Integrative Veterinary Therapies short courses for pet owners: https://civtedu.org/courses/pet-owners
  • Research by DogRisk at the University of Helsinki: https://www2.helsinki.fi/en/researchgroups/dogrisk-health-via-nutrition-epidemiology-and-cancer-detection-dogs/research-by-dogrisk
  • For pet owners wanting custom diets for their pets by veterinary nutritionists: https://www.veterinarynutritiongroup.com

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The beginning of a beautiful friendship

Pet crazy? Yes they are. But how did it all begin? In our first episode of A Modern Animal, we explore how Gabe and Mike's (our podcast co-hosts) journeys began in the animal health space as they recall their first "animal love" and the profound impact it had on their lives.

ABOUT YOUR HOSTS:

Dr Mike Woodrow:
Dr Mike Woodrow B.V.Sc (Hons) has over 30 years’ experience as a veterinary surgeon in Australia, but also in the UK and US. Mike has worked across most aspects of the animal health industry from practice to research and teaching to being an early innovators in online pet care. Although he may not want to admit it, Dr. Mike has also been a bit of a media personality.
We are very grateful to have Dr. Mike as the co-host of A Modern Animal. He is not only a very experienced and knowledgeable vet surgeon with a grounded perspective on animal health, he is also an incredible and very generous human being.

Gabriel Perera:
Gabriel Perera (Gabe) has been in the natural health industry for the last 20 years. He is qualified in Ayurveda and has worked as an executive with some of Australia’s largest Natural Products brands, including Blackmores, BioCeuticals and Orthoplex. Gabe is also the Founder and Managing Director for the innovative pet supplements brand - Nectar of the Dogs as well as Ora Health, a practitioner-grade, plant-based human supplement range exclusive to health food stores.
Gabe is the dad of Willow, the crazy Hungarian Vizsla that has been following him and his partner throughout Australasia over the last 4 years.

Nectar of the Dogs: https://nectarofthedogs.com.au
Ora Health: https://orahealth.com.au

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