Mending Fences: Recent Episodes
Patrice Brymner
Mending Fences is a podcast about dispute resolution and effective ways to communicate and live across differences. Hosts Patrice Brymner and Jennifer Hawthorne are both family mediators and collaborative law attorneys, but their conversations go well beyond family law. They explore the personal, interpersonal, legal, and cultural impact of conflict. Intro/outro: "North Oakland Extasy," by Squadda B
Join us on Mending Fences as we talk to Attorney William Hickey, a seasoned family law litigator from Massachusetts. Together, we untangle the often-confusing world of divorce, focusing on the distinctions between mediation and litigation. Bill shares his expert insights on how he evaluates the suitability of mediation for his clients, highlighting crucial factors like the intricacy of the issues and the couple's communication dynamics. We also delve into the significance of fairness and client value when recommending dispute resolution methods.
We break down the essential steps for choosing a qualified mediator, ensuring you’re equipped with the right questions to ask. Learn about the importance of mediators being involved in professional communities and the need to clearly understand the boundaries of the the neutral's role. Because mediators can't give legal advice, having access to independent counsel is vital. Through practical examples, we clarify the mediator’s role and underscore the necessity of grounding mediation in sound legal advice for a more balanced process.
We also discuss the value of a collaborative role for attorneys in mediation. Whether both clients have legal representation or only one does, we discuss how attorneys can bring balance and informed decision-making to the table. We also touch upon critical moments when mediators should refer clients to litigators, acknowledging that some conflicts are best resolved through litigation. Tune in for an insightful discussion on navigating divorce with the right mix of mediation and litigation, tailored to meet your unique needs.
What happens when a conflict becomes bigger than any of the involved interests? Jen Hawthorne Kelsey and Patrice Brymner guide you through the maze of contentious standoffs to the calmer side, where interest-based dialogue fosters understanding and peace. As they reflect on the art of conflict de-escalation on Mending Fences, listeners learn effective communication strategies that are more necessary now than ever. Whether it's the bubbling tensions in the classroom or the more prominent scale of global disagreements, self-inquiry strategies can shed light on personal disputes and their striking similarities to international relations.
In this episode, Jen and Patrice explore couples' mediation with Dr. Susan Boardman. Unlike divorce mediation, couples' mediation is intended to strengthen relationship dynamics for couples who wish to remain married. Susan's wisdom, drawn from years of experience, highlights mediation as an invaluable tool as a proactive strategy for enhancing dialogue and understanding between partners. The talk delves into the psychology behind written agreements and how they lay the groundwork for positive behavioral shifts. If you're interested in the subtleties of how mediation can fortify a bond, you won't want to miss these insights.
Learn more at: https://couplesmediation.org
Discover the transformative power of words with our guest Karen Van Kooy in an episode that may reshape your approach to conflict resolution and legal negotiations. We engage in a dynamic dialogue, breaking down how subtle shifts in terminology can steer conversations from deadlock to collaboration. As we dissect the impact of word choice, from "proposal" to "settlement scenarios," you'll gain invaluable insights into fostering dialogue that digs into the heart of parties' needs and interests. It's a deep dive into the strategic use of language that can open up a world of creative resolutions.
Karen brings her expertise to the table, illuminating the conversation with examples from family law and beyond. We tackle the shift from impersonal, adversarial terms like 'clients' and 'opposing counsel' to more humanizing nomenclature that reflects autonomy, respect, and the potential for partnership. This episode offers a compelling look at how embracing a collaborative mindset can not only change the language we use in legal settings but also the outcomes for those involved.
Divorce and Family Mediator Daniele Ozeri joins Jen and Patrice to discuss strategies for mending the complex dynamics within families—be it the bond between parents and children or among adult siblings. Daniele explains the subtle nuances that differentiate family mediations from divorce mediations, emphasizing the importance of cultivating understanding and empathy. Her approach, centered around personalized mini-agreements and consistent check-ins, not only addresses immediate disputes but also fortifies relationships for the long haul.
Exploring the ecosystem of support for families in conflict, we examine the overlapping roles of mediators and other professionals such as therapists and attorneys. Mediators, like Daniele, often wear the hat of a neutral facilitator, masterfully navigating between legal boundaries and emotional needs. Our discussion broadens to include the vital yet underappreciated role of conflict coaching, a service that primes individuals for the mediation process. Here, Daniele illustrates how this coaching can pave the way for improved communication, offering a beacon of hope to those who might grapple with the stigma of seeking mental health support. Learn more about Daniele and her approach at: www.dngmediation.com.
So you thought mediation would be easy. Well, even amicable divorces can be stressful and participants may feel at times like they are lost in uncharted territory. That's exactly what Jen Hawthorne Kelsey and Patrice Brymner delve into in this episode of Mending Fences. As seasoned guides, family law mediators, and collaborative law attorneys, Jen and Patrice illuminate the complexities that even the most cooperative separations can conceal. As always, your hosts' goal is helping people become better informed masters of their own decision-making .
It's a candid conversation that strips away the myths about what 'should' happen during a divorce and instead, fosters a realistic understanding of the unique paths each couple must navigate. So, whether you’re a couple seeking peaceful closure or a listener curious about the inner workings of mediation , join us for an episode that promises both enlightenment and encouragement.
Join us as we unpack the essential roles, differences, and overlapping concepts of these legal representatives and how, with their assistance, successful conflict resolution is achievable. We explain how attorneys in the "Settlement Counsel" role can work directly on their client's behalf to achieve an out-of court resolution, and how attorneys in "review Counsel" role can support clients engaged mediation. Attorneys can be invaluable guides in while navigating the complex terms of divorce agreements in either role. We underscore the importance of finding a lawyer who not only respects the client's wish for a peaceful resolution but is also well-versed in the non-adversarial approach. And if you're about to embark on a divorce mediation process or other non-adversarial process, you won't want to miss our discussion on selecting an attorney who honors agreements, asks the right questions, and focuses on the journey rather than potential court battles.
Join us as we journey through the delicate web of step-parenting with our guest, step-parenting coach Maria Natapov. What does it truly mean to be a step-parent and how can you navigate this dynamic, emotion-filled terrain? Maria sheds light on these questions and provides pragmatic guidance to help you transform family uncertainty into harmonious co-parenting. We'll unpack the layers of challenges from financial to emotional, and discuss how Maria’s expert advice can help ease your transition into this new family dynamic.
Maria delves into the intricacies of becoming a step-parent, emphasizing the significance of good communication and nurturing relationships. Through her insights, we gain a practical understanding of how to blend families effectively, stressing the need for patience and understanding. Listen as she shares anecdotes that encapsulate the realities of sudden changes and the importance of preparation for every possibility. Whether you're a step-parent, a divorced parent, or just looking to understand complex families, this episode offers a comprehensive guide to find your footing in the challenging yet rewarding journey of co-parenting.
Learn more at https://synergisticstepparenting.com
Are you shying away from initiating those tough conversations? This episode is filled with practical wisdom and guidance that will empower you to start tough conversations with anyone. Hosts Patrice Brymner and Jen Hawthorne dive into the nuances of understanding your own motives and goals, identifying the right people to participate in the conversation, and whether you might want to consider professional assistance . Sometimes, it's not just about finding a resolution, but creating a healthier environment for future communication.
Jen and Patrice also delve into the art of effective problem-solving conversations, emphasizing the power of using "I" statements, validating the other person's viewpoint, and setting the stage for a solution-oriented dialogue. It's crucial to acknowledge the value of timing, preparation, and the humility to accept a 'no' answer. In the end, Patrice and Jen want to help you create a space of peaceful communication and coexistence. They share insightful tips on ensuring that your conversations are productive, solely focused on creating solutions, and most importantly, help improve your relationships and daily encounters.
Is your dispute resolution stuck? Is your divorce mediation stalled? Your collaborative divorce just not moving? As your hosts for this episode of Mending Fences, Patrice Brymner and Jen Hawthorne, we’ll guide you on how to breathe new life into stalled conflict resolution processes. We’ll share practical advice, from introducing a lawyer to mediation to using a mediator as a shuttle between parties, so you're not doomed to starting over from scratch. Amidst conflict, it's easy to be overwhelmed by a multitude of dispute resolution options. We'll help you navigate through these options - mediation, collaboration, lawyer-to-lawyer negotiations, conciliation, and arbitration - by providing guidance tailored to your unique situation.
We understand the weight and significance of progress in resolving conflicts. That's why we emphasize the importance of continuous communication, even when progress seems snail-paced. Discover strategies that can better ensure the preservation of progress in communication, even as you switch processes. We'll reveal how to hold on to made agreements and improved statuses in your dialogue, even if it doesn’t feel like progress is being made. This episode is a compass, guiding you through the labyrinth of conflict resolution options, keeping you steady, and aiding you in finding the most effective solutions.
Can collaborative divorce or divorce mediation address pressure, coercion, and power imbalances more effectively than litigation? Join us for a deep dive into these questions with collaborative divorce attorney and mediator, Karen Van Kooy. We share our experiences and insights, contrasting the stark differences in handling a court-based divorce versus a collaborative law or mediated approach.
In this lively discussion, we unravel the complexities of coercion and imbalance that can surface in divorces. Karen shares her insights and strategies and explores the need for setting boundaries in the tricky terrain of power dynamics that can sometimes lead to coercion.
We discuss decision-making within the context of divorce mediation and the significance of considering all possible options. We consider how collaborative professional teams can handle pressure dynamics using techniques like breakout rooms, interest-based discussion, and option generation. Above all, Karen underscores the need to remind clients that the power to make the final decision lies in their hands.
Jen and Patrice each share three things to avoid in any difficult conversation. At Mending Fences, we always encourage people to keep talking, but when should you stop talking? Of course it makes sense to avoid blaming and defending, but how do you do it? Patrice and Jen talk through practical tips for productive communication in difficult situations.
Should I Stay or Should I Go? Allyson Clemmons joins Jen and Patrice to discuss discernment counselling, a way for couples considering divorce to gain clarity about the direction of their marriage. In this approach, couples engage in a limited number of individual sessions to gain a deeper understanding of what has happened in the relationship, as well as each spouse's contribution to that. Couples can decide to maintain the relationship as it has been; they may re-commit to the marriage and begin work in couples therapy, or they may decide to initiate a divorce process. Learn more about discernment counseling and about Allyson at https://www.bridgetownclinical.com/discernment-counseling,
Jen and Patrice talk about how conflict resolution skills can improve communication in daily life.
Dr. Gina Arons joins Patrice and Jen to talk about the vital role of the Collaborative Coach in the Collaborative Divorce process.
Jen and Patrice highlight five factors that may impact whether mediation is a good fit for participants.
Jen and Patrice each share their top three tips for better communication. Highlighting several effective approaches for any difficult conversation, Jen and Patrice talk through what works and why.
Jen and Patrice talk with their colleague, Beth Aarons, about her work as a trainer and adjunct law professor teaching Collaborative Law. Seasoned professionals, as well law students, undergo a profound shift in mindset in order to effectively participate as members of a Collaborative Law professional team. Collaborative Law professionals provide holistic, non-adversarial, interest-based dispute resolution approaches.
Jen and Patrice talk with Attorney/Mediator Barbara Nason about a range of out of court divorce options, including mediation, attorney-assisted negotiation, and conciliation. This conversation covers the benefits of dispute resolution and some of the pitfalls of litigation, including the time, money, and opportunities wasted when attorneys engage in fighting rather than problem solving. After litigating for 20 years, Barbara has spent the last 10 years offering only out of court options, first in her own firm, and now within a larger family law firm.
FIRST IN A SERIES Jen and Patrice share the advice they give people who are considering mediation for a divorce process: what to look for, what to avoid, how to approach the early stages of a choosing a divorce process.
Jen and Patrice talk about shifting parental duties post-divorce. What happens when both parents become the "default" or "primary" parent? Co-parents can't plan for every parenting contingency, but good communication channels can make a huge difference in how the unexpected (and the expected) play out. Mediation and collaborative process provide effective means for parents who are shifting into co-parenting roles. Parents can explore options in communication and duty sharing before committing to something that might not be livable.
The busy holiday season, schedule changes, illness or any unexpected event can create real strain for co-parents. Jen and Patrice discuss the importance of solid communication, patience, and flexibility when facing any co-parenting challenge. This episode highlights 1) how building a foundation in mediation or collaborative process can really pay off when things don't go as planned, and 2) the benefit of of mediation and collaborative process for blended families after divorce.
Susan DeMatteo shares her journey from family law trial attorney to collaborative lawyer and mediator. Susan was trained in Collaborative Law early in the movement, and she brings a great depth of experience to this discussion of process choice, creative problem solving, and improved outcomes. Susan, Jen, and Patrice reflect on the benefits of dispute resolution for their clients and their own job satisfaction.
How do you experience conflict in your body? What role does physical proximity play in dispute resolution? Jen and Patrice talk with choreographer and conflict specialist Dana Caspersen about physical dynamics and engaging with conflict.
Dana is the author of Changing the Conversation: The 17 Principles of Conflict Resolution.
Dana works with individuals and groups to help build robust skills and a flexible mindset in conflict through coaching, mediation, facilitations, talks, workshops and public dialogue. Learn more about Dana at https://danacaspersen.com
It's that time of year in New England! No, not apple picking. It's Conflict Resolution Week! To celebrate, Jen and Patrice sat down with Lisa Wood of Mediation Services of North Central Massachusetts to talk about community mediation, training kids as peer mediators, and using mediation for a variety of disputes and difficult conversations. Mediation is NOT just for divorce. This community mediation center offers services relating to neighbor disputes, business disputes, and other issues.
Learn more about Conflict Resolution Week in North Central MA:
https://mediationncm.org/blog/f/conflict-resolution-week-events-1
Learn more about Mediation Services of North Central Massachusetts:
https://mediationncm.org/
Should a mediator or lawyer meet clients at least once in person before continuing by video conference? And what’s an "internal mediator?" Do you have one? David Hoffman joins Jen and Patrice for a lively, wide-ranging conversation, contemplating these and other questions. David identifies three powerful and continuing benefits virtual dispute resolution practice, and Jen and Patrice share their experiences. David then turns the talk to Internal Family Systems. Hint: it’s not really about families.
David Hoffman is an attorney, mediator and arbitrator with the Boston Law Collaborative and a professor at Harvard Law School. Learn more about David and the Boston Law Collaborative here.
Sheila Kelly, LMC, joins Jen and Patrice for a powerful and free flowing conversation about dignity, kids, identity, compassion, and communication. Jen and Patrice hope this is one of several talks focused on dignity and the first of several talks with Sheila.
Money can be hard to talk about. Accurately predicting the cost of a dispute resolution process might be impossible. So, how can you and your attorney or mediator have useful talks about what a given process might cost? Jen and Patrice walk through the factors that make cost estimates so difficult. They also talk about a variety of billing practices and the importance or keeping communication about money open.
What happens to the ADHD brain during conflict? Jen and Patrice sit down with Brendan Mahan of ADHD Essentials to talk about the challenges of dealing with ADHD in conflict resolutions settings. This conversation is full of great information for both practitioners and participants.
For some folks, "moving on after a divorce" might happen before the process ends. Jen and Patrice discuss the legal and practical considerations of moving forward. Will it impact the divorce process? How should you talk to your kids about this?
Jen and Patrice explore the importance neutrality for mediators and the challenges of staying neutral. The mechanics of maintaining neutrality and the way mediators talk to their clients about neutrality will vary between mediators and cases. At the same time, the integrity of a mediation process may rest on the mediator's ability to stay impartial while still being responsive.
Conflict is inevitable. People will disagree and have differences. But we don't all engage with conflict in the same ways or seek the same solutions. In the first of many talks, Jen and Patrice explore how people learn to express and resolve differences. What and who has influenced the way we engage when we don't agree? Our first teachers might be siblings and/or peers, but there have surely been others along the way.
Jen and Patrice talk with their former colleague, Rachel Goldman, about her journey from Mediator and Collaborative Attorney to Conflict Coach. After building a successful mediation and law practice over three decades, Rachel now turns her skills and insight to coaching people facing personal, professional, and relationship challenges. Rachel specializes in is leadership and communication coaching, facilitating difficult conversations between two or more people. She also teaches workshops on topics related to communication and conflict management.
Jennifer and Patrice talk about the dangers and distractions of "triggering" words and how to instead find opportunities for understanding. By pivoting to curiosity when we react negatively, we can develop careful communication where we might have otherwise shut down communication.
Justin Kelsey, a seasoned mediator, collaborative attorney, and trainer, talks about the effective use of silence in Dispute Resolution. Justin walks us through the benefits of using active silence in mediation and collaborative process. This conversation is aimed at professional facilitators, but any conflict or dispute might benefit from the use of active silence.
Patrice and Jen describe the Collaborative Law process and discuss their roles as attorneys in this process.
Jen and Patrice explain how mediation works, and discuss how they see their roles as neutral in this process.
Patrice Brymner and Jennifer Hawthorne, both mediators and Collaborative Law attorneys, talk a bit about who they are, what they do, and how this podcast came to be.