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Michelle St. John is the founder and director of VinE (Veganism in Education). VinE aims, through education, to encourage the development of empathy, critical thinking and ethical decision making, She has background in law, having worked as a Crown Prosecutor, a Magistrate and as guest lecturer on English Law at the Jagiellonian University, Krakow.Heather Marshall is a Senior Lecturer and Religious Education PGCE Course Leader at Edge Hill University . She is a specialist in #religiouseducation pedagogy but also has interests spanning diversity in learning environments, the impact of digital technologies on teaching, teacher identity formation, education policy, and effective assessment strategies. She is a VinE ambassador.In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

00:53 Welcome

03:00 Heather's Intro

• Teaching kids, now teaching teachers and research

• Richard Twine episode

04:11 Michelle's Intros

• Polish & English parents

• Social anthropology

• Law (barrister and magistrate), human rights and justice

• Vegan at 50 "that was the big change... human rights, animal rights, hand in hand"

• "Education was a key for change... because in my owneducation I hadn't been given that opportunity to explore the moral status of animals"

• Marc Bekoff, Melanie Joy episodes

• Founding VinE "This is where we begin"

• Launching resources with Angela Hill from RE Today ⁨@re-today-services⁩

• Ethical veganism as a worldview (featuring religious andnon-religious ways in like #Sentientism)

• Spirited arts competition with the @animalinterfaithalliance

• Partnering with The Vegan Organic Network@GrowingGreenVideos

07:53 What's Real?

Heather

• Not brought up spiritual but a deep interest in religion and society

• "I've got quite a secular worldview... but I understand the importance of religion... the impact... why people might want to be involved in that"

• Critical thinking & questioning "I am quite scientific"

• As a social scientist "I do recognise that things are beyond the physical as well"

• Interested in psychology and how the brain works

• Not so concerned about the metaphysical e.g. "whathappens after death"

• "That probably seems a bit weird for someone that teaches RE (Religious Education)... I'm interested in other people's beliefs and why they might believe it... but I'm not that interested in exploring it for myself"

17:31 What and Who Matters?

50:02 A Better World?

01:27:00 Follow Heather and Michelle:

• VinE

• VinE on Insta

• VinE on LinkedIn

• Heather at Edge Hill

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Tom Cledwyn describes himself as the "chief emailer" at Drop Dead Generous (he's actually the co-founder). Inspired by Chris Anderson's (of TED) book, "Infectious Generosity", Tom and his co-founder John Sweeney set up DDG as an experiment in sparking creative, fun, hopefully infectious generosity. They're giving away half a million dollars in $500 chunks to people who want to do something kind for someone else (whether human or not).

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:15 Welcome

• Our introduction by Zoe Weil. Her two Sentientism episodeshere and here

04:00 Tom's Intro

• @dropdeadgenerous "It is a little left-field"

• Background in advertising, design and creative roles "A marketing guy"

• Working at Meta "for my sins" in Singapore and London

• Doing "silly boy experiments... self-discovery... in the direction of service and doing good and trying to make adifference"

• Now bringing marketing & creative skills directly into the space of social good

• "Championing kindness, generosity and giving... my heart and head have fallen into alignment for the time being"

06:04 What's Real?

• Family and community "that didn't really hold religion particularly closely", despite attending church schools

• Shifting from apathy about religion to "I became a quite aggressive #atheist "

• If someone had asked Tom as a child "Do you believein God"... "I would have thought you were referring to Le God, who is Matthew Le Tissier, Southampton's best ever football player... now, unfortunately, a very strange conspiracist"

• "I don't think I really asked myself those questions... I felt totally detached from it [religion]"

• "The history of war. How often it seemed, and stillseems, that religion plays a big part in what people are fighting for or against... I found that very hard"

• Reading the story of Prometheus stealing fire from Zeusand giving it to the people, then being eternally punished

• "That story really framed what I felt... religion wasa real was also a real shame... it seemed to give people an opportunity to put, through faith, whether their accountability, responsibility or hope in the hands of something other than themselves"

• "Angry teenage years"

• Moving to London "A big place to be lonely in... Ihave a history of depression"

18:40 What Matters?

42:45 Who Matters?

01:02:20 A Better World?

01:24:42 Follow Tom:

• Drop Dead Generous project

• @Dropdeadgenerous

• Tom on LinkedIn

• Tom@dropdeadgenerous.org

• The DropDeadGenerous ideas voicemail podcast

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Jack Waverley is a senior lecturer in marketing at the University of Manchester. He uses marketing and consumer research to protect and promote the interests of all animals, including humans. Jack teaches on a range of BSc and MSc courses in the Fashion, Business, and Technology (FBT) group. He also supervises a number of PhD and dissertation students. He is an academic expert member of the Academy of Marketing and a member of the Vegan Society's Research Advisory Committee.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

00:52 Welcome

• Jack's talk at VARC 2025

• "The VARC conference is like being in the future...where we want to get to... it really does feel like you've jumped forward 10 years"

02:49 Jack's Intro

• A marketing consumer researcher... focusing both onconsumption of animals and consumption for animals

• "Markets as a system of morals... material objects moving around... infrastructures"

• "How we move from one system to another"

• The AI question "I very much adopt a sentiocentric or Sentientist perspective"

• "The reason I'm concerned about animals is because they are sentient"

• "If AI were to become sentient... then of course they would fall within... my moral circle"

• "Most people think about 'what can AI do for me... for humans?... How does AI affect humanity?'"

• "I'm much more interested in 'what can we do for AI?'... our responsibilities for AI... how can AI help post-humanity, more than humanity, all sentient beings."

• "I've ended up in this... very anthropocentric tradition... marketing and consumer research... but bringing in animals and bringing in AI"

• A new field of #SentientistMarketing ?

05:14 What's Real

• Growing up in "a nominally Christian household... but we never went to church... more agnostic"

• "There was never an explicit framework of... this is why these things are good or bad"

• A liberal, progressive upbringing "live and let live"

• "It wasn't quite a blank slate [re: moral thinking] but it was as close as you probably get"

• "Broadly naturalistic is my baseline... interested in biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics... scientific ways of approaching the world"

• "I didn't really go out looking for any kind of revelation... [or] any strict rules... [or] some sort of authority figure"

• "I didn't mind other people having religion but for me it just didn't make sense... I was naturalistic"

31:44 What and Who Matters?

35:50 A Better World?

01:21:40 Follow Jack:

• Jack at Manchester University

• Jack on LinkedIn (please get in touch)

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Keith Frankish is a philosopher and writer, British-born but now living in Crete, Greece. He is an Honorary Professor in the Philosophy Department at the University of Sheffield, a Visiting Research Fellow with The Open University, and an Adjunct Professor with the Brain and Mind Programme at the University of Crete. He is also editor of the Cambridge University Press series Elements in Philosophy of Mind. He spent many years thinking about the nature of belief and reasoning, developing a ‘two-level’ view of the human mind that he set out in his 2004 book, Mind and Supermind. Now he focuses mostly on Philosophy of Mind and says "I now spend much of my time defending the unpalatable but salutary view that phenomenal consciousness is an introspective illusion."

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

00:52 Welcome

03:15 Keith's Intro

• "By the way I don't think sentience is an illusion"

• "I'm best known as a person who thinks consciousness is an illusion... I don't think that"

• "I spend most of my time thinking about the human mind"

• "I suppose I have a sort of campaigning streak"

• "The state of consciousness science is unsettled... a revolutionary state"

• "It's important for science... for philosophy... for knowledge... ethical implications too"

• "Trying to invite people to look at things a different way"

• Moving from UK academia to Greece "I moved more tothe edges... I think it freed me... to spend more of time doing I think are important... devote energies to things that perhaps wouldn't have got so well rewarded in the formal academic structures"

08:23 What's Real?

• Working class family

• "Religion was present but in a very watered down typically sort of English way... I was baptised... go to church... Sunday School"

• "It was never oppressive"

• Uncle "... a wonderful example of the compassion and... the commitment to social justice that can come with religion"

• Reading an encyclopaedia about the scientific scepticismabout the soul "Oh right, there's no soul then... and that was it!"

• "I had a very strong inclination to trust science... certainly against religious interpretations of the world"

• "...there's another world in which I would have become a scientist."

• "You can't really educate yourself in science but you can educate yourself in philosophy... philosophy can only be taught by self-education."

01:04:55 What Matters?

01:15:10 Who Matters?

01:47:26 A Better Future?

01:58:12 Follow Keith:

• keithfrankish.com

• Keith on BlueSky (“I do not post on Twitter any more”)

• Keith on Mastodon

• Keith on Wikipedia

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Steven Rouk is founder of the non-profit Connect For Animals, a platform that connects people who want to end factory farming and bring about a more anti-speciesist world. He also helps high-positive-impact organisations implement technology and artificial intelligence solutions.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:02 Welcome

• Will we DESTROY! each other in this conversation?

03:07 Steven's Intro

• Math, music and writing, then data science and programming

• Philosophy and "what does it mean to lead a good life?"

• Animal ethics... footage from a farm investigation

• Dabbling in vegetarianism & veganism "caring about animals more seriously"

• "This is a huge problem... what would it look like for me to devote more of my life..."

• Full time animal advocacy... volunteering, bringing data & tech

• Working for Mercy for Animals

• Seeing people struggling to get active and "plugged in" & stay engaged

• "I don't think we've been doing a very good job of capturing this people power"

• Founding Connect For Animals "Get them connected... stayconnected... get active for animals... accelerate the end of factory farming"

08:40 What's Real?- Growing up in Georgia, USA in a religious, Christian family (half Methodist, half Baptist, several pastors)

• "It was a very large part of my life growing up... church Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday evening, summer mission trips, choir."

• "That meaning... came from the Christian church"

• Specific beliefs, some fundamentalism, Bible literalism

• "I remember thinking that the Earth was 6000 yearsold and evolution was a hoax... carbon dating wasn't real"

• "There was also this deep caring for others side... family... people who didn't have what you have... sick... bad things happened to them..."

• "My mum... someone who just cares so deeply for others"

• At a science & maths focused high school "There came to be these little questions... things are not squaring up right"

• "For a while... what I've been taught from religion is true... I just need to work out how to make it square with these otherfacts... maybe the people who believe in evolution are completely mistaken... an anti-religious, anti-spiritual conspiracy?... scientists trying to destroy religion?"

• "Learning about the conspiracy... a mistaken or misguided or bad worldview" vs. learning the actual facts

48:59 Who Matters?

01:07:42 A Better World?

01:29:30 Follow Steven

• Connect For Animals (Create an account, sign up for the newsletter and explore!)

• Steven on Insta

• Steven on LinkedIn

• Steven on Twitter

• Stevenrouk.com

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Elizabeth MeLampy is an author and a Harvard-educated lawyer, with experience in animal law and environmental law. While in law school, she worked on issues related to farmedanimals, wild animals, and captive animals with Harvard’s Animal Law & Policy Clinic. She was also in the inaugural cohort of Emerging Scholar Fellows with the Brooks Institute for Animal Rights Law and Policy, where she worked onanimal law scholarship. After two clerkships—with the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court and the Federal District Court in Arizona—Elizabeth litigated with one of the top environmental nonprofits in the country. Her firstbook, Forget The Camel: The Madcap World of Animal Festivals and What They Say About Being Human, was published in 2025.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:15 Welcome

• Mark Bekoff episode https://youtu.be/-pwfNH-KgWI

• Kim Stallwood episode https://youtu.be/5-8vYRhJvaU

03:25 Elizabeth''s Intro

• "Sentient creatures matter"

• Forget the Camel "Animal festivals... I study them as microcosms of our relationships to non-human animals"

• "Try to make sense of how we treat so many animals differently"

• The Rattlesnake Roundup "They beheaded and killed rattlesnakes in public... then made bloody handprints"

• A Jumping Frog contest

• The real Groundhog day

• "There's a lot more that ties those events togetherthan separates them even though you're killing animals in one context and not in another"

• "The overarching paradigm of human superiority applies to them all"

06:10 What's Real?

• "I have both backgrounds very strongly... the religious spiritual side and the more scientific, naturalistic side"

• Grandfather and mum church ministers, grandmother aveterinarian and an anthropologist, father a software engineer

• "Core pillars of my upbringing... Thinking about the world really critically, really analytically... on one side... on the other side... a Protestant Christian upbringing in the Church"

• "Core values, more than religious dogmatism, ofcompassion, of kindness, of generosity, of sacrifice... key Christian values... open hearted, open minded, compassionate lens"

• "I was really lucky to be raised in a version of the Christian church that prioritises those things"

• "The two sides [religion and science] work so closely together... it's not 'you believe in god or you believe in science'"

• "The mysteries of the world... things you could explore with a variety of disciplines... read the Bible... do a science experiment... all sorts of ways to figure out what is going on"

• Grandparents lived on an animal farm

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Seb Alex is an animal and human rights activist, as well as a lecturer, photojournalist and author. He is Founder of the Middle East Vegan Society. Seb has run animal rights advocacy workshops for over 1300+ activists across Europe, the Middle East and Australia. He has given lectures in over 2/3 of universities in The Netherlands and more than 55 universities and schools in Canada, the United States, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Spain, Belgium, the United Kingdom and Portugal, reaching more than 6000 students. In 2020 and 2021, Seb collaborated with Lebanese Vegans in opening the world’s first animal rights and Vegan support centre that still operates today in the heart of Beirut, Lebanon.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:23 Welcome

03:00 Seb's Intro

• Born and raised in Lebanon, originally Armenian

• Activism (for human and non-human animal rights) since 15-16 years old

• "There's a very important moral urgency"

• Addressing a regional gap re: animal advocacy in the Middle East "Maybe I shouldn't complain and I should start doing something"

• "There are grass roots groups within the Middle East"

05:01 What's Real

• Armenian community and the role of Christianity

• "I was not really raised religious"

• Attending an Armenian school founded by an atheist"but we had some historical religious courses"

• Praying and church "I did feel Christian up until 12-13 years old"

• Asking for a sign "I was really disappointed that no one showed up... you're a kid and you really believe in these things... then you get slapped in the face"

• Becoming more agnostic over time "leaning more to I believe in what I see... no faith whatsoever"

• Attending 3 Vipassana Buddhist meditation retreats"for 10 days you don't talk to anyone... you have to meditate for at least 10 hours a day... gives you a lot of back pain... at least my back pain is true!"

• "It wasn't religious... it was a scientific way of meditating which I really enjoyed"

• Finding a big interest in religion again recently... religious history... watching the Christspiracy Film documentary

• Launching the Vegan Islam initiative "This is quite powerful... I didn't expect this from Islam... I straight away bought a Quran"

• "You can make a very strong case for animal rightsusing religion"

• "How people can go through so much pain and still believe in god..."

• "I'm very well educated in it but I still don't find any faith in me"

32:08What Matters?

37:27 Who Matters?

58:10 A Better World?

01:28:50 Follow Seb:

• Sebalex.org (reach out for lectures!)

• @seb.alex

• Middle East Vegan Society

• VeganIslam

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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I recently gave this presentation to a network of Religious Education (RE) teachers from Northumberland in the UK. It's aimed at helping teachers bring the Sentientism worldview and its themes into their classrooms. Feedback and ideas are always welcome. Of course I'd love to help in any way I can too so please reach out in the comments, via the sentientism.info website or via @sentientism on any social media platform.The content is similar to my workshop sessions with:

• Church of England's Chester Diocese RE teacher conference

• WASACRE (Wales Association of Standing Advisory Councils on Religion, Values and Ethics (RVE))

• Hull SACRE Religions and Worldviews Conference

• Tower Hamlets and Hackney RE Network

• Wiltshire RE Network

• Kirklees/Bradford/Leeds RE Conference

• Newnham and Barking & Dagenham RE Network

• North East England RE Network

• Hull & West Riding RE Network

• Northumberland, Hillingdon, Wiltshire, Sefton, Oldham SACRES (committees that define local authority RE curriculums).

A big thank you to everyone involved for exploring the Sentientism worldview with me and with your students!

00:00 Intro

02:00 Non-religious worldviews

04:00 What's on kids' minds?

06:25 What is the Sentientism worldview?

09:14 Where did Sentientism come from?

14:30 Sentientism and other 'isms

16:45 Teaching the Sentientism worldview

27:00 Lesson Idea 1: Single Lesson

28:16 Lesson Idea 2: The Quadrant

30:54 Lesson Idea 3: Imagining A Sentientist World

32:39 Lesson Idea 4: What's True? Who Matters? Now What?

44:56 Help and Resources

religiouseducation #RETeach #philosophy #teaching #Epistemology #Ethics #vegan #animal #animalrights #belief #religion #worldview #ai #aiethics #alien #Humanism #Ahimsa #Sentiocentrism #Anthropocentrism #Biocentrism #Ecocentrism #Sentientism #Disinformation #conspiracism

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Jeff Sebo is Associate Professor of Environmental Studies, Affiliated Professor of Bioethics, Medical Ethics, Philosophy, and Law, Director of the Center for Environmental and Animal Protection, Director of the Center for Mind, Ethics, and Policy, and Co-Director of the Wild Animal Welfare Program at New York University. He is also a Faculty Fellow at the Guarini Center on Environmental, Energy & Land Use Law at the NYU School of Law and an Advisor at the Animals in Context series at NYU Press. Jeff's research focuses on moral philosophy, legal philosophy, and philosophy of mind; animal minds, ethics, and policy; AI minds, ethics, and policy; and global health and climate ethics and policy. His books include The Moral Circle and Saving Animals, Saving Ourselves and he is co-author of Chimpanzee Rights and Food, Animals, and the Environment.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:20 Welcome

• Our first Sentientist Conversation, episode 26

• Jeff's book The Moral Circle

• Endorsements from previous Sentientism guests Barbara King and Peter Singer

• Welcome Smokey!

02:50 Jeff's Intro

• Research and teaching and leading programmes at NYU including the Wild Animal Welfare Programme and the Center for Mind, Brain and Consciousness

• Asking "How humans can better interact with the non-human world... who might matter, how much might they matter, what might they need, what might we owe them, what follows for our actions and policies and priorities...?"

• Directing the Center for Environmental and Animal Protection "agriculture, farmed animal welfare, #biodiversity, wild animal welfare..."

• Directing the NY Center for Mind, Ethics and Policy "Non-human minds... invertebrates and AI systems"

04:37 The Moral Circle

• JW: "Does it have to be a circle?"

• "I was concerned... it implies that humanity is at the centre and that other beings matter or are closer to the centre to the degree that they resemble us"

• "We right now at least increasingly agree that all humans and many non-human animals... merit consideration"

• "The book asks 'should we go farther?'"

08:32 What Makes Us Matter?

11:39 Why is Sentience Important?

19:16 What About Zero-Valence Consciousness?

28:08 Properties vs Relational Approach

38:10 So Who Matters?

43:28 Do AIs Matter?

48:47 Do Photons Matter?

56:15 Do Future Beings Matter?

01:01:51 How Much Do They Matter?

01:14:44 The Role of Epistemology?01:18:26 A Better Future?

01:22: 33 Follow Jeff:

• Jeff on BlueSky

• Jeff on Twitter

• "The Moral Circle"

• Saving Animals, Saving Ourselves (now open access and free to read!)

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Jonathan Balcombe is an ethologist and author. He lectures internationally on animal behavior and the human-animal relationship. Jonathan’s books include: The Use of Animals in Higher Education; Pleasurable Kingdom: Animals and the Nature of Feeling Good; Second Nature: The Inner Lives of Animals; What A Fish Knows and SuperFly.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:00 Welcome

• Links to previous episodes: Jo-Anne McArthur, Marc Bekoff, Claudia Hirtenfelder, Jordi Casamitjana "people who are really thinking about sentience and its importance in the world"

03:06 Jonathan's Intro

• "I'm Canadian but I'm also American and British"

• Biology, ethology, animal behaviour, then non-profit animal protection

• "I was always very interested but also concerned about the wellbeing of animals... non-human animals because of course we're animals as well"

• "Then I discovered I was pretty good at writing books!"

• "Sentience... what animals are thinking, what are they feeling..."

• "It's a very exciting time to be an ethologist... scientists are asking questions that were considered taboo... the inner livesof animals... The taboo is gone."

• "There's a lot going on between the ears of a hedgehog or an elephant or a fish... not just vertebrates... there's a lot going on in the insides of animals without a backbone... insects, arthropods, crustaceans... octopuses and squids and nautiluses... the darlings of invertebrate sentience"

• "Somebody thinking about thinking in non-humans"

• JW: "Science has had to catch up with common sense"

07:35 What's Real?

• Non-religious parents but mum joined the Quakers when pregnant with Jonathan

• "As my body was forming inside my mum's womb, religion was coming into her life"

• "I go to a Catholic church, not because I'm Catholic but because I sing... it's good for me, it's good for my health and my spirit"

• "It's a bit ironic that this atheist, me, goes to a Catholic church every Sunday..."

• "My partner is Catholic... when I met her she was a Catholic omnivore and now she's just a Catholic"

• "I'm not working on her to try to convert her and she's not trying to convert me... by and large our worldviews are verycompatible"

• Quaker principles "Two of them I really like... non-violent and peaceful... open freedom of expression..."

• "In the worship... anyone can get up and speak at anytime... "

22:32 What (and Who) Matters?

41:35 A Better World?

01:12:00 Follow Jonathan:

• "Super Fly"

• "What a Fish Knows"

• "Jake and Ava"

• Jonathan on Wikipedia

• jonathanbalcombe.com (sign up for his newsletter!)

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Mark Rowlands is a writer and philosopher. He is Professor of Philosophy and Chair of the Philosophy Department at the University of Miami and the author of several books on the philosophy of mind, the moral status of non-human animals, and cultural criticism. His books include Animal Rights, The Body in Mind, The Nature of Consciousness, Animals Like Us, The Happiness of Dogs and a personal memoir, The Philosopher and the Wolf. His latest book is The Word of Dog.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:01 Welcome

• Previous episode links: Frans de Waal, Marc Bekoff, Jessica Pierce, Michael Hauskeller

03:20 Mark's Intro

• 20-something books... the mind, moral consideration,animals, environment, the meaning of life...

• "The Word of Dog... an exploration of the idea of meaning in life through the ideas provided by a series of dogs"

• Luna enters the chat

05:25 What's Real?

• "We weren't a religious family... I never went to church"

• Mother's father was an Anglican vicar "that just puther off formal religion"

• "The younger me was hostile [towards religious orsupernatural ideas]... I just didn't buy it... I was just a firm, died in the wool naturalist... we're just physical organism - when we die we die"

• "I've come to the view that 'real' is ambiguous"

• Two different perspectives: from the outside and from theinside

• "...from the outside I'm just an unremarkable being in an unremarkable world who leads an unremarkable life"

• "From the inside our lives are hubs of meaning and purpose... we matter... what we want matters deeply to us"

• Tom Nagels' paper "The Absurd": "We have these two different views of reality - we know they both can't be true because they're incompatible but we can't bring ourselves to get rid of either one of them... Our existence in this sense is absurd... it doesn't make sense."

• wittgenstein : "Our lives have no limit in the sense that our visual field has no limit"

• "We find it very difficult to understand the idea of death... but we know that there is an end"

• "Which is more real? [the view from the outside or the inside]... to which do we attach the word 'real'?... It's not clear that there's a straightforward answer..."

• JW: Is suggesting that the subjective is just another partof objective reality a potential resolution?

27:40 What (and Who) Matters?

45:50 Who Matters?

01:10:10 A Better World and The Meaning of Life?

01:26:20 Follow Mark:

• The Word of Dog

• Mark on PhilPeople

• Mark at the University of Miami

• Mark on Wikipedia And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Ronen Bar is a social entrepreneur and the co-founder and former CEO of Sentient, a meta non-profit for animals focused on community building and developing tools tosupport animal rights advocates. He is currently focused on advancing a new community-building initiative, The Moral Alignment Center, to ensure AI development benefits all sentient beings, including animals, humans, and futuredigital minds. For over a decade, his work has been at the intersection of technological innovation and animal advocacy, particularly in the alternative protein and investigative reporting sectors.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:11 Welcome

02:40 Ronen's Intro

• Social entrepreneur "using storytelling to promote reason and compassion for all sentient beings"

• Investigative journalism (care homes then slaughterhousesin Israel and abroad)

• Leading the Sentient NGO, including using on-animal investigative cameras to "enhance animal storytelling... of particular named animals" not just the story of a slaughterhouse

• Alternative protein non-profits

• The Moral Alignment Center "making sure that #ai is apositive force for all sentient beings"

• "What is good?... I don't think those questions are asked enough in the AI space"

• Starting new fields and communities

• How the advent of powerful AI forces us to revisit thesefundamental "what's real?", "what matters?" and "whomatters?" questions

• The ethical question is neglected in AI, but "it is in the minds of people... Ilya Sutskever... Ray Kurtzweil... Sam Altman..."

07:23 What's Real?

• Growing up in Israel "a very religious country" but in a secular family

• Wider relatives #orthodox and ultra-orthodox

• Asking self "what do I know for sure... 100%...? the obvious answer is subjective experiences at this moment"

• Being less sure of everything else but "my subjective experience is certainly true"

• illusionism ? "It's funny to think of it [subjective experience] as an illusion because subjective experience is the only information you will ever receive in your life"

• "Science is just the discipline... of trying throughrationality to predict the subjective experiences of humans" (even the results of scientific measurements come through our experiences)

• JW: "So if it is an illusion it's still all we've got!"

• "Starting from your own subjective experiences... itactually brings you more compassion... "

29:40 What Matters?

36:00 Who Matters?

41:03 A Better World?

01:33:20 Follow Ronen:

• Ronen on the EA forum

• Ronen on LinkedIn

• Moral Alignment Center on LinkedIn

• Alien Journalist Dictionary

• Email: ronenbar07@gmail.com

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Anders Reagan is a peace entrepreneur, philosopher, academic, and technologist. He is founding director of the Peace and Conflict Science Institute (PACS), an academic think-tank and advocacy organisation with special consultative status at the United Nations that aims to put peace and rights mechanisms on more rigorous, evidence-based foundations. Anders is also an AI Consultant at the University of Oxford.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:06 Welcome

02:58 Anders' Intro

03:58 What's Real?

• "My upbringing and emotional impetus for initiatingthe academic journey that I went on... happened because of a clash between a non-theistic, agnostic background and a religious, Christian environment"

• Born in Boulder, Colorado "rather liberal"

• Agnostic parents, father interested in Buddhist traditions

• Moving to Arkansas at 7 yrs old "quite conservative leaning"

• "A sudden transition happened with our social relationships... encountering people who had a Christian religious doctrine at such a core place... in their personality"

• "Oftentimes the first question you'll be asked is 'what church do you go to?'... and at the time we didn't have any answer"

• "It is an ingratiating tactic... These people are so kind and approchable... they're clearly looking for common ground to build off of"

• "But when you respond with 'I'm atheist I don't go toany church at all'... the reaction... would be suspicion, confusion..."

• "My mum... took the tactic of saying we would 'homechurch'... either indicating that we have no religion at all or we're way more intense than the rest of you" :)

• At 7 years old: "That was intense... I didn't haveany concept of god or theism or religion - I'd never heard of any of these things... it was like living through a culture clash even though I hadn't left my own country"

• "We eventually did find a home in a Unitarian Universalist fellowship... very welcoming of what they called liberalreligion... people who had found themselves ostracised by other congregations... LGBTQ+... Muslims... the Wicca faith... they would congregate in this space... exchange ideas... trying to find common ground across all of these different religious doctrines... I found that to be very enriching"

• "Sunday School programme which offered a survey ofreligions. By the time I finished that programme... I felt like I had a pretty thorough understanding of the full range of religious and spiritual traditions"

21:54 What Matters?

42:14 Who Matters?

01:09:40 A Better World?

01:32:30 Follow Anders

• Andersreagan.com

• PACSInstitute.org

• Anders' LinkTree

• Anders on LinkedIn

• andersjreagan@pm.me

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Mike Berners-Lee is Professor in Practice at Lancaster University and director and principal consultant of Small World Consulting. His books include How Bad are Bananas?, The Burning Question and There Is No Planet B and he is a contributing author to The Climate Book created by Greta Thunberg. His latest book is A Climate of Truth.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips

01:02 Welcome

03:03 Mike's Intro

• "A professor of what... I'm not really quite sure... a professor of the future?"

• Academic: Climate change, carbon flows, sustainable food systems, AI, technology

• Small World Consulting "help organisations to respond to the environmental and wilder polycrisis that we are accelerating towards"

• "Trying to create a better world for humans and other beings to live in"

• From climate change to "the climate emergency... crisis... breakdown"

• From trying to deal with climate change in isolation to..."all these things are just so joined up... climate... nature... food... population... social questions... politics... economics..."

• "You can't deal with that separate from questions about what matters, who matters, does truth matter... you have to go deeper and deeper..."

• Philosophy "I'm very pragmatic about it."

• "It's important to work at all of these levels at once"

• "I lose patience [with fellow academics] when they lose contact with everyday reality"

• "How much of how we basically think and how we basically run society is fit for purpose... and how much we need to go back to the drawing board?"

• The Anthropocene "the era in which suddenly it's humans that are so powerful"

• "How we do economics... politics... how we think... it all dates back to a time when we could just expand our activities... the world was a robust playground... we could get away with anything we liked... Now we're right up against the stops... a hard physical boundary"

• "We've given ourselves enormous physical power and wejust haven't given ourselves, yet, the wisdom with which to wield that power"

• "We're like babies running around with machine guns"

09:52 What's Real?

• Mathematician parents "they also went to church"

• "They asked a lot of questions [about religion]... they were not literalists"

...

21:53 What Matters?

34:00 Who Matters?

51:05 A Better World?

01:24:30 Follow Mike:

• "A Climate of Truth" A very simple guide to what’s going on in the world…"

• Mike on BlueSky @mikebernerslee “I’m on BlueSky and I’m not on X… Please do avoid any social media in which you do not trust the owner… please switch right now”.

• Mike on Sentientism.info

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Bill Wasik is the editorial director of The New York TimesMagazine. Monica Murphy is a veterinarian and a writer. Their previous book, Rabid: A Cultural History of the World’s Most Diabolical Virus, was a Los Angeles Times best seller and a finalist for the PEN/E. O. Wilson Literary Science Writing Award. Their latest book, "Our Kindred Creatures" makes a case for seeing the fight against animal cruelty as a crucial thread in America's history. Readers are introduced to the activists, scientists, andmoguls who helped create our modern views on animals, with our intense compassion for certain species and ignorant disregard for others.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:09 Welcome

• "Our Kindred Creatures" as an example of Sentientist History?

03:30 Monica and Bill's Intros

• Writing two books together: Rabid and Our KindredCreatures

• "...Monica's interest in animals [as a veterinarian] that I think got me interested"

• Telling the story of how the animal welfare movement came to the USA in the decades after the civil war

• The emergence of the modern way of thinking about animals "some of them are like members of the family... others of them in huge numbers are excluded..."

• "Everyday people in cities... were living among allkinds of animals in a way that feels very foreign to us today"

07:18 What's Real?

• Meeting in a church youth group, Bill's family more devout than Monica’s

• "It was not a creationist church... there was a sensethat we weren't going to doubt what science was telling us just because we were part of a religious tradition that had a different story"

• "'In a world in which there's no god why should wecare at all about human suffering?'... runs implicitly through the book - many of the people we write about are religious"

• Links between religion, the abolition of slavery andanimal ethics "though of course the slavers themselves had various bible verses that they waved around"

• "Today we're Unitarian Universalists... go to churchon Sundays and Bill sings in the choir"

• "Our Unitarian church is a very humanist church...animals don’t' come up much... some other Unitarian churches have animal affinity groups"

• "There are also a lot of atheistic Unitarians... ourchurch leans atheistic... the younger people even more so"

• "Whatever concept of god that I have wouldn't conformwith traditional ones - it's more notional"

• "We came back to religion because of our son... hewas a very loud atheist... a disrespectful atheist... we wanted him to expand his thinking"

• "Even though we occupy three different spots in ourfamily on the atheistic side of the spectrum we're very at home in this church"

25:27 What and Who Matters?

52:43 A Better World?

01:12:27 Follow Bill and Monica

• @murphydvm

• @billwasik

• Our Kindred Creatures

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Richard Twine is Reader in Sociology at Edge Hill University in the UK, working at the nexus of critical animal studies, environmental sociology, the sociology of climate change and gender studies. He is co-director of The Centre for Human Animal Studies, an interdisciplinary forum for research and activities that engage with the complex material, ethical and symbolic relationships between humans, other animals, and their environments. Richard is the author of many articles, papers and books for both academic audiences and the wider public, including "The Climate Crisis and Other Animals".

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:43 Welcome

02:34 Richard's Intro

• Philosophy, psychology, history, natural sciences, bio-technology and sociology

• Ecofeminism (Carol Adams, Val Plumwood), Regan, Singer, then Critical Animal Studies

• The "flawed awakenings" of climate change awareness and non-human animal ethics

05:28 What's Real?

• Non-religious, implicitly atheist, socialist parents andhousehold

• Attending Sunday School with a Christian friend "Itdidn't have any effect - it was just another space to play"

• A religious teacher who "made us recite the Lord'sPrayer at the start of every day... that was odd... that kind of drove me away from religion"

• Asking for an exemption from religious education atsecondary school "Probably sociologically limited because it's actually good to learn about religion... but I already knew that wasn't something that I wanted to spend my time doing"

• A materialist outlook "when we die, we die... decompose and feed the rest of nature... a kind of beautiful thing... I don't believe in an afterlife"

• Avoiding dogmatism about materialism. Interested in near-death experiences

• "I'm on board with that aspect of Sentientism -reason and evidence... but I would also add that my atheism isn't simplistically rationalistic... elements of romanticism in it... Shelley... beauty and wonder of nature giving us some kind of meaningfulness in our lives... that's enough."

• "There's a poor track record with religiosity andconservative ideology... distanced me from it... used to justify patriarchy, anthropocentrism, colonialism, capitalism etc."

• A hobbyist interest in UFOs and UAPs "stems from mychildhood... subscribed to a magazine called 'The Unexplained'... I've always had that interest but ultimately - give me some evidence."

• Conspiracy theories and cover-ups "I'm sceptical butI'm fascinated"

• Richard's "'Alien' Disclosure and Critical AnimalStudies" blog post26:48 What Matters?

32:59 Who Matters?

58:29 A Better World?

01:21:12 Follow Richard

• RichardTwine.com

• @RichardTwine

• The Centre for Human Animal Studies at Edge Hill University

• @CfHAS

• The Climate Crisis and Other Animals

And more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Jesse Tandler is Managing Director of New Roots Institute. He oversees programming, people operations, and implementation of New Roots Institute's strategy. Jesse is a writer, academic, and has been an educator for nearly two decades. He earned a B.A. from UC Berkeley in 2002 and an MFA from the New School in 2007. Shortlythereafter, he began teaching high school students about the ethics of our food culture. Later, during his PhD work, Jesse continued to include environmental and animal ethics on the syllabi of his undergraduate classes at theCity University of New York, where for five years he taught philosophy, literature, writing, and rhetoric. In 2017, he moved to Los Angeles to apply his years of research and educational experience in the non-profit sphere. Outsideof New Roots Institute, you may find him practicing yoga, appreciating beauty in its myriad forms, reading in one of his preferred languages, or teaching food politics at UCLA.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:09 Welcome

02:55 Jesse's Intro

• Continental philosophy, teaching food politics and running New Roots Institute (was the Factory Farming Awareness Coalition)

03:32 What's Real?

• Jewish pre-school

• "I assumed there was a god because that's what the adults told me"

• At 6-7 yrs old "It seemed slightly improbable to mebecause there was no other evidence for it"

• At 4-5 yrs "I started getting really concerned aboutdeath and what was going to happen when I died... the annihilation of my consciousness"

• "I asked my dad and he said 'of course there's no god'... I felt validated actually"

• Next 15 years "a very atheistic worldview... probablysome contempt for religion and people who believed in something that seemed completely impossible to me... I was pretty loud about it..."

• "Very few atheists around me..." A 9th grade debate: "Is there a god... it was pretty much me against the class"

• "It became a point of identity for me... in middleschool and high school"

• "Some of my points of identity - like being ameat-eater - had changed drastically"

• College at Berkeley, psychedelics "It opened me up tothe possibility that I might just not be seeing everything... my five senses were limited... I had a circumscribed intellect... it was unlikely I had access to whatever the reality out there is."

• "Us looking at the universe is like a dog looking atthe TV... the dog has no idea what's going on with the TV... I barely have any idea..."

• 2 layers: phenomenon "what we experience" then"something else going on that we just don't really have access to - maybe some kind of spiritual access.. intuitive access.. but we can't figure out empirically."

20:38 What Matters?

35:38 Who Matters?

46:47 A Better World?

01:19:29 Follow Jesse:

• New Roots Institute

• Jesse on LinkedIn

• @jmtandlerAnd more... full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠⁠groups⁠⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Arran Stibbe is Professor in Ecological Linguistics at the University of Gloucestershire. In his teaching and research he focuses on how language makes us who we are as people, and the role of language in building the kind of society we live in, using discourse analysis and ecolinguistics. Ecolinguistics examines how language encodes the stories we live by, and shapes how we see ourselves and our relationship with other animals and the earth. This involves linguistic analysis of a wide range of discourses, from advertising which encourages people to buy unnecessary and ecologically damaging products, to the inspirational language of nature writing. He is founder of the International Ecolinguistics Association.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:00 Welcome

• "I'm a massive fan of Sentientism. It's a crystal clear worldview that you're expressing... it's an important message that needs to get out there."

• Arran's book "Econarrative"

03:39 Arran's Intro

• Ecological linguistics... "I get to analyse any kindof discourse that I want to... then I critique the stories that are emerging... based on my ecological philosophy... respecting living beings and wanting themto flourish"

• Discourses from Men's Health magazine to the Pork industry handbook to nature poetry, creation stories... "positive ones and negative ones"

• "Searching for new stories to live by"

• Consulting with @greenpeace and others on messaging

• Stories... Ben Okri: "Stories are the secret reservoirs of values... if we change the stories that individuals and nations live by then we change the individuals and nations themselves"

• "If we pay careful attention to the language we canunderstand these stories that fundamentally underpin our unequal and unsustainable and quite cruel society"

• Stories as "cognitive models in our minds thatinfluence how we think, how we talk and how we act"... individuals and across a culture e.g. "The masculine man being strong & not showing emotions & eating lots of meat... a hegemonic story"

• Narrative: "A more traditional kind of story you might tell to children at bedtime... sequences of events..."

• "I would go with this #meme idea... but I think it'seven more fundamental than that... so much of what we're thinking is part of this wider social cognition..."

• "Is it a simplification to think of a separate being... you wouldn't exist for more than a few minutes on your own in space... your continued existence depends on breathing..."

11:27 What's Real?

26:35 What and Who Matters?

46:15 A Better World?

& much more. Full notes at sentientism.info.

01:12:52 Follow Arran

• Arran at the University of Gloucestershire

• The Stories We Live By – the free online course

• The Ecolinguistics Association

• Stibbe, Arran (2024) Econarrative: ethics, ecology and the search for new narratives to live by. London: Bloomsbury- Stibbe, Arran (2021) Ecolinguistics: language, ecology and the stories we live by (second edition). London: Routledge

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠⁠groups⁠⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a cross-post of my discussion with Louisa Jane Smith on "The RE Podcast". Her audience are some of the most important people in the world - religions and worldview teachers and their students. Make sure you go and subscribe there too.

As well as hosting the podcast Louisa is a Religious Education Teacher and Head of Life Skills at a school in England. She a member of the National Association for Teachers of Religious Education (NATRE) executive committee as well as being a public speaker and author. Louisa was also my guest on Sentientism episode 205 if you want to hear more about her philosophical journey so far.

If you're a teacher or are just interested, why not join our next free webinar on "Teaching the Sentientism Worldview"?

I hope you enjoy listening as much as I did talking - feedback and suggestions are always welcome. As ever I'm only one Sentientist so others will disagree!

I also wanted to extend a warm welcome to everyone who has recently joined one of our online Sentientism communities. More people join us there every day - whether they think of themselves as Sentientists or not. The groups are open to everyone. Just search for the word "Sentientism" on your favourite platformsand you'll find us there. FaceBook is our biggest group so far with 2,300 members from over 100 countries.

Soon we'll have 14,000 subscribers on YouTube too. It's great to have your support there.

Also check out the new ⁠⁠⁠"In action" section⁠⁠⁠ of Sentientism.info. We're building pages there about Sentientist Education, Politics, Rights, Economics, Justice, Agriculture, Environmentalism and more - come and help us work out what a more Sentientist world might look like.

A final thank you to Denise and Tarabella who found our secret Sentientism Patreon and are kindly contributing to our production costs - helping us steadily nudge the worldtowards "evidence, reason and compassion".

Thanks for listening!

Follow Louisa

• ⁠@TheREPodcast1⁠

• ⁠The RE Podcast⁠

• ⁠Louisa on Instagram⁠

• ⁠The RE Podcast on Facebook⁠

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Maneesha Deckha is a law professor at the University of Victoria in British Columbia, Canada. Her work initially spanned human rights, injustice, feminist theory, post-colonial & decolonial theory and later, inter-species justice and its links and intersectionality with human social justice. Maneesha founded and directs the Animals & Society Research Initiative at Victoria University. She is the author of the book “Animals as Legal Beings”.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:55 Welcome

• Maneesha on The Animal Turn and Think Like a Veganpodcasts hosted by:

• Claudia Hirtenfelder Sentientism episode- Emilia Leese Sentientism episode- SentientistEducation

03:05 Maneesha's Intro

• "To consider how different oppressions for differentgroups, both human and animal and even other non-humans, are systemically structured and are related and overlap - and also how they might be different"

• Working long before and since the "Animal Turn"in academia "when not too many people were discussing animals"

• Research: animals legal subjectivity, animal ethics,feminist perspectives "connecting work... looking at issues of gender, race, culture, species in tandem"

• "Addressing questions that affect women, that affectchildren, that affect animals - through that intersectional lens"

• Starting and Directing the Animals & Society ResearchInitiative at Victoria University

• Public facing projects e.g. the "A Deeper Kindness" documentary

06:55 What's Real?

• Growing up in a Hindu household... celebrations, stories

• The radical diversity of Hinduism "all these gods andgoddesses and quite a few of them are multi-species... Lord Ganesh"

• University courses on Hinduism and Buddhism

• "I always looked at that... as myth"

• The ethos of learning... being introduced to modernist,scientific & secular views

• "I approached the world in a more secular, atheistframe... atheist understood as being compatible with Hinduism... not really believing in these gods and goddesses but somewhat happy that these stories are there... the diversity of thought that it brings up"

• "When we have a physical sensation or emotionalsensation that it's real... that pain is real... that suffering is real even if it's psychological"

• Learning about social construction and the influence oflanguage at university "we cannot access... reality... without mediating that access through concepts, through language"

• "We can't really know something 100% for certain...because it depends on how we frame it on the interiority of our mind which of course almost always depends on language"

26:30 What Matters?

37:25 Who Matters?

01:07:47 A Better World?

01:15:50 Follow Maneesha

• “I’m of that age where I’m not too excited about social media”

• Maneesha at the University of Victoria

• A Deeper Kindness documentary series

• Human Children, Nonhuman Animals, and a Plant-Based Vegan FutureSentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our ⁠groups⁠. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Joel is Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Loyola University New Orleans. After completing his B.A. in philosophy at the University of Akron, he was a United States Peace Corps Volunteer in Panama working in environmental education and sustainable development. He completed his doctorate in philosophy at the University of Tennessee. Joel was a scholar-in-residence at Wesleyan University in 2013 as the New York University Animal Studies Initiative’s Animal Ethics and Public Policy Fellow. He held visiting assistant professorships at Washington State University and Binghamton University, SUNY, before coming to Loyola. His main areas of research are applied ethics, especially environmental ethics, and the philosophy of science. One of his many academic publications is "Minding Nature: A Defense of a Sentiocentric Approach to Environmental Ethics".

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:50 Welcome

• Joel's PhD thesis re: #sentiocentrism

• Our Sentientism FaceBook group where Joel is a member

02:47 Joel's Intro

• Asst Prof of philosophy at Loyola

• Director-elect of the environment programme

• Coaching the Ethics Bowl

• Institutional Review Board and animal usage ethicist

• Peace Corps volunteering in Panama

• Analytic philosophy focus

• Applied, environmental, animal ethics

• Philosophy of science and biology

• British #empiricists

• Grew up as a "latch-key kid" in Akron countryside "being in and messing around with nature" & rescuing animals ("Boy" turned out to be a girl...)

• Mother a nurse "seeing... the fragility of life very early on"

• Dad sold musical instruments "grew up around musicand art"

• "All manner of outdoor adventuring... rock climbing,kayaking"

• "I'm a pretty hard-core board gamer... Evolution... Wingspan... nature themed board-games"

• "Within philosophy applied ethics can be a bit of a perjorative... not real philosophy"

• "I'm still trying to delay answering the question 'what do I want to be when I grow up?'"

11:02 What's Real?

• Raised in a minimally #protestant #Christian family "church on Sundays and that was about it"

• Mum was "more spiritual than religious". Church for the singing and community more than belief

• Dad: "We go to church because that's what we're supposed to do"

• An inauthenticity about it "going through the motions"

• "I've never been religious or spiritual"

• "I think we're all born atheistic at least in the sense that we don't have any active beliefs in anything supernatural... we start as empiricists..."

• Being puzzled as a kid at realising most humans arereligious "I thought I might have been broken!"

• Sunday school after church at 10 yrs old hearing aboutNoah's ark "there's so many species of beetle - this doesn't make any sense at all... basic critical thinking"

32:53 What Matters?

51:50 Who Matters?

01:22:19 A Better World?

... and much more (full show notes at ⁠sentientism.info⁠)

Follow Joel

• Joel at Loyola

• Joel on LinkedIn

• Joel at PhilPeople

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Mark Humanity is a long-time vegan activist. He currently lives on the edge of a rainforest in New Zealand and is on the Board of the Vegan Society of Aotearoa, New Zealand. Mark has been involved in animal rights since a teenager, initially in Ireland’s embryonic movement and later in the much more developed UK movement. A hunt saboteur for many years, Mark has been vegan since 1989 and got involved with the NZ Vegan Society via his vegan outreach Initiative called “Vegan Living Auckland”. He is currently helping raise two plant-based children and has a background in mental health nursing. Mark is the author of "The Humanity Trigger".

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:34 Welcome

• Tom Harris episode

• Corey Lee Wrenn episode

• Philip McKibbin episode

02:13 Mark's Intro

• Anarcho-punk and vegan activism

• Now “anarchish”

• Writing “The Humanity Trigger” about two centuries ofdirect action for animals in Ireland

• Vegan Society Aotearoa board

• 20 years as a psychiatric / learning disabilities nurse

• Now stay at home dad raising two vegan kids on the edge of a rain forest

03:28 What's Real?

• “Things that still exist irrespective of whether peoplebelieve in them or not – are what’s real”

• Raised in a staunchly Irish Catholic family and society

• “our sense of reality growing up was filtered through theeyes of a deeply authoritarian… fascist-adjacent dictatorship of the Roman Catholic church”

• “The government were simply puppets at the beck and call of the church when the church chose to intervene”

• Attending church run by Redemptorist priests / monks “on the surface they preach very worthy things… giving to the poor… vows of chastity & poverty & obedience…”

• The monthly Redemptorist “Reality” magazine: “Verymedieval thinking… resurrections… ascensions to heaven… virgin births… that was all reality”

• “I tried to believe it because it was what everyone around me was saying was true.”

• “Anyone that even thought or even asked questions about it was deemed to be dangerously… on the slippery slope”

• “If you haven’t been brought up in a strictly religiousenvironment it’s very hard to imagine what it’s like when everyone around you believes in the devil… god… jesus… heaven and hell…”

• Transubstantiation “Jesus does come down into that bread – his body is in that bread… it is literal – it is not meant to be taken as a metaphor”

• “I tried to believe it but I couldn’t”

• Comics, 2000AD, Pat Mills, Alan Moore “I read into those scripts… Flesh… Strontium Dogs, some of Judge Dredd… non-human animals had agency… were lead actors in these scripts… were the heroes and villains”

• The influence of punk on other Sentientism guests: Delci Winders, Kristof Dhont, Nick Pendergrast, Nicola Harris, Luke McGuire, Nico Delon, Jamila Anahata, Tom Harris

19:05 What and Who Matters?

34:30 A Better World?

... and much more (full show notes at sentientism.info)

Follow Mark

• Mark at Earth Island Books

• The Humanity Trigger Book

• The Humanity Trigger Web Site

• The Vegan Society Aotearoa

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Robert Grillo is an activist, author and speaker for all species. He is also the founder and director of Free from Harm, a non profit dedicated to helping end animal exploitation. He founded Slaughter Free Chicago in 2018 which has now grown into the Slaughter Free Network. As a communications professional for over 25 years, Robert once worked on large food industry accounts where he acquired a behind-the-scenes perspective on food branding and marketing. His book, Farm to Fable: The Fictions of Our Animal-Consuming Culture, explores the powerful narratives driving our culture of mass animal consumption. Robert's other published works include contributions to The Humane Hoax, Caged: Top Activists Share Their Wisdom on Effective Animal Advocacy and Circles of Compassion: Connecting Issues of Justice.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:55 Welcome

• Free from Harm's "Humane Farmer" transfarmationstories: https://freefromharm.org/humane-farmer/

03:25 Robert's Intro

• Author, speaker, activist

• Free from Harm's mission: "advance a #plantbased foodsystem and challenge the dominance of animal agriculture through bold and innovative grass-roots action."

• Evolving from an on-line resource to "on the groundactivism"

05:16 What's Real?

• At 10 yrs old father passed away. Creative, jazz,painting, architecture

• Exploring dad's library... ways of thinking, ethics

• "He was a non-believer - not a spiritual person"

• Mother also non-religious

• Ordinary middle-class upbringing

• "I was definitely an outsider... I didn't really fit in... now I embrace it... causes me to question... being open to new ideas and scepticism... I feel like it's a strength"

• The risks of scepticism spilling over into conspiracism

• "Sometimes it's a small group of people that sense aninjustice... that mainstream society doesn't... that's the role of activism... awakening and triggering of popular support to bring justice."

• JW: Why epistemology matters "it's not just apopularity contest..." it's the weight of evidence

• Spirituality / supernatural / transcendent?: "We haveso much to deal with here that I don't have time for that stuff... I'm not seeking it out at this point in my life"

12:56 What Matters?

• Experiencing father's suffering and death as a child. "I developed a sense of empathy"

• "I didn't really come into an understanding of thesuffering of other animals... until much later in life"

• Emotional (e.g. empathy, care) vs. intellectual (utility, justice, rights) moral influences

• Sympathy, empathy & compassion

17:28 Who Matters?

• The risks of care/empathy in narrowing our moral scope

• "I came to realise what the real conditions were forthe animals that suffer in our food system... their suffering was like our suffering."

• Watching documentaries and @mercyforanimals investigative footage

• "Humane, sustainablefarming?... empty marketing promises."

28:44 A Better Future?

01:07:30 Follow Robert

• robertgrillo.com

• https://freefromharm.org/

• @Free_from_harm

• @robert_grillo

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Louisa is a Religious Education (RE) Teacher and Head of Life Skills at a school in England. She is host of the RE podcast, an RE Subject reviewer for Oak National, a member of the NATRE (National Association for Teachers of Religious Education) executive committee and the Surrey SACRE (Standing Advisory Council on Religious Education) as well as being a public speaker and author.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:45 Welcome

• Kids today are "The most enlightened generation... sosocially aware... so aware of, for better or worse, the bigger picture... so passionate about things that really matter."

• Jamie's appearance on The RE Podcast talking about Sentientism

• "The reason we love RE [religious education] is because we love those big questions... this is like a proper geek out for me!"

• The balance between neutrality and authenticity for REteachers... how much to talk about your own worldview

05:45 Louisa's Intro

• 22 years of RE teaching in UK secondary schools

• The RE Podcast "little lockdown project... I'd beenwanting to do something creative... the first dedicated podcast for students and teachers of RE"

• "I had no idea what a podcast was... the RE community... have been so supportive... now nearing 4 years of doing this... I absolutely love it"

• Religious Education "fairly unique... to British schools... a national entitlement... every child up to the age of 18"

• How RE has evolved from religious instruction "how tobe a good Christian" to now: "religion and worldviews - everybody in the world has a worldview... we all stand somewhere... show respect... compassion for people who think differently... religious and non-religious worldviews"

• NATRE exec

• Oak National online teaching platform

09:19 What's Real?

• catholic mum, #atheist dad, brought up Catholic(christening, school, church)

• "You just accept the reality that you are given by your caretakers. And that was then reinforced at school... reinforced at church... with my friends..."

• Despite atheist dad: "At no point did I really consider that atheism was a valid worldview"

• At 8 yrs old "My dad had this big conversion... frombeing a complete and utter atheist and hating religion to becoming quite an evangelical Christian... he had a religious experience... he heard a voice... felt a pressure... waves of energy going through him."

• Going to protestant evangelical church with dad "sovery different from my Catholic version... quite exciting... my whole family left the Catholic church and went to the Protestant church."

• "It was quite fundamentalist... to the point of it being quite judgmental"

• "University was the first time I really questioned anything... taken out of my little religious bubble... exposed to... alternative ideas"

• "A lot of the things I'd been told just didn't holdup... going to hell... attitudes to homosexuality..."

35:34 What Matters?

46:15 Who Matters?

01:11:26 A Better Future?

01:30:50 Follow Louisa

• @TheREPodcast1

• The RE Podcast

• Louisa on Instagram

• The RE Podcast on Facebook

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Leigh Claire La Berge is Professor in City University of New York's English Department. Her work focuses on aesthetics and political economy. Her first book, "Scandals and Abstraction: Financial Fiction of the Long 1980s", tracked the convergences of finance, realism and postmodernism in literature and culture throughout the 1980s in the United States. Her second book, "Wages Against Artwork: Decommodified Labor and the Claims of Socially Engaged Art" explored the twin rise of new forms of socially engaged art alongside what she called "decommodified labor," or labor that is not recompensed. Along with Alison Shonkwiler, Leigh Claire is the co-editor of the collection, "Reading Capitalist Realism". She recently published a book about animality and economy entitled "Marx for Cats: A Radical Bestiary". She is working on a new book called "Fake Work: How I Began to Suspect that Capitalism is a Joke" about her experience with corporate labor, Y2K, and management consultants.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:58 Welcome

02:32 Leigh Claire's Intro

• "In an English department you don't just find peoplewho read novels or who write novels... but also who do philosophy, critical theory..."

• "Relationship between economic forms and theconstitution of reality"

• "... different cultural objects... artworks or filmsor TV shows or novels... mediate between what we perceive as economically real and what might be economically possible" #economics

• philosophy major, working for a management consultant in Manhattan

• Seeing the corporate world... accounting...profiteering... record-keeping "I was genuinely surprised... this cannot be the way that capitalism works... but it is!"

• Studying #politicaleconomy "manifestly politicisedunderstanding of economic forms and economic structures"

• "Scandals and Abstraction" on financial scandalsrepresented in film & literature

• "Wages against artwork" on art, economy and alsoanimals (e.g. an exhibit of live birds)

• Thinking about animals' presence in the economy

• Explaining political economy to artists "What if youwere talking to cats?"

• The Marx For Cats video series "The cats loved it!"

• Writing "Marx for Cats" - "A history of the capitalist world system... as told through cats, with cats and for cats"

• "Cats are also amazing anti-work creatures... anti-authoritarian creatures"

• "Cats have been understood to be anti-authority forat least 1200 years"

• Royal lions, wildcat strikes, sabotabbies...

• Animals that can be companion and work animals because "capitalism... it both structures our external reality and our most intimate, internal, familial realities."

12:03 What's Real?

• "By the time I was 6 or 7 it was clear that church was not going to be for me"

... and much more (see sentientism.info for full show notes)

29:15 What Matters?

33:57 Who Matters?

58:11 A Better World?

01:13:22 Follow Leigh Claire

• @marxforcats on Twitter

• @marxforcats on Instagram

• Marx for Cats book

• Leigh Claire at CUNY

• Marx for Cats video series

• Watch out for “Fake Work”

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This is the audio from our "Teaching the Sentientism Worldview" webinar. The webinar was aimed at religious education / worldviews / philosophy teachers in the UK but will hopefully be of interest to everyone! Let us know @sentientism on any social media platform if you'd like to attend a future webinar and / or follow Sentientism on Eventbrite to be notified of future events.

Here's the video recording on the Sentientism YouTube (don't forget to subscribe!) if you want to be able to see the slides I'm referring too. I'm happy to send these out if of interest so just get in touch if you'd like a copy.

Here are more #SentientistEducation resources - feedback and ideas always welcome! We also have a dedicated Sentientist Education FaceBook chat here. I think you might have to join the main Sentientism FB group first to access it. All are welcome!

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John is an activist academic, a green political economist and former Green Party politician in Northern Ireland. He is Professor of Green Political Economy in the School of History, Anthropology, Philosophy and Politics at Queen's University Belfast. His main research interests span politics, economics, the ethics of sustainability/ sustainable development, green moral and political theory, green political economy, vulnerability, resilience , civic republicanism and green politics, Irish/Northern Irish politics, Q Methodology and sustainable energy politics and policy.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the most important questions: “what’s real?”, “who matters?” and "how can we make a better world?"

Sentientism answers those questions with "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:01 Welcome

• "Summer in Ireland... best weekend of the year" :)

• Zion Lights episode

03:34 John's Introduction

• Green political economy

• Co-chair the Belfast Climate Commission

• "A recovering politician" led the Green Party of Northern Ireland

• "I've always been politically active... I feel compelled... at this moment of crisis... a polycrisis... climate, ecological,social... animal welfare horrors of our current social order"

• "A dissident political economist - I don't accept either #capitalism or endless economic growth"

• "Our current economic system has now passed itssell-by date... industrialisation, globalism, the horrendous suffering of the more-than-human world"

• Pessimism amongst climate scientists "describing inmany respects... an uninhabitable world in the future"

• "We cannot continue in a business as usual manner inthe academy while the world is on fire... we need to practice what we teach"

• "This time, not only of crisis... of great opportunity... we can fix so many problems... science... political will...justice focus" (global, inter-generational and inter-species justice and equity)

• "We have all the solutions... What we lack... is thepolitical will and the ethical courage of our convictions"

07:33 What's Real?

• Growing up in working class Dublin

• "Not just as a lapsed but a completely collapsed #Catholic... I've been an #atheist all my thinking life"

• At ~10yrs old asking "What's the evidence for thisoff-world, male, white deity?... Not really finding satisfactory answers fromthe priest or from teachers."

• "I do hold some affection for Catholicism..."

• The denial of evolution & #creationism among someNorthern Irish Protestants and Evangelicals. Often #climatechange denialism too

• Flaws of Catholicism: abuse of women & children &abuse cover-ups "effectively brought down the church... in Ireland... from its position of power"

• General acceptance of science within Catholicism

• "A form of poetry... religious perspectives as beautiful stories... they're fairy tales... beautiful but they're not real... can have certain morality lessons"

... and much more!

21:50 What Matters?

39:54 Who Matters?

55:43 A Better Future?

01:27:03 Follow John:

• @ProfJohnBarry

• John on LinkedIn “I like subverting LinkedIn – there’s far too many shiny, happybusiness-type people”

• John’s MarxistLentilist Blog

• John on Academia.edu

• John at Queens University Belfast

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Zoe Weil is the co-founder and president of the Institute for Humane Education (IHE). She is considered a pioneer in the comprehensive humane education movement. She has authored eight books both for adults and children, including her latest, "The Solutionary Way" – available for pre-order now! Zoe writes the Becoming a Solutionary blog at Psychology today. She has made numerous TV andradio appearances and has given six TED talks, including “Extending our Circle of Compassion.” Her first Sentientism conversation with me was back on episode 37.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:15 Welcome

• Our first conversation: https://youtu.be/4NaSEJ4q8NQ

• Most good (MOGO), least harm

• Star Trek as a utopian inspiration

• Mr Spock and Dr Spock "both of them have had a biginfluence"

03:42 Zoe Introduction

• Co-founder and President of The Institute for HumaneEducation

• IHE: "Educate people to create a world where allhumans and animals and nature can thrive... huge, huge goal and vision"

• K-12 schools and graduate programmes with AntiochUniversity

• "It's going to keep my busy my entire life"

04:37 The Solutionary Way

• Subtitle "Transform your life, your community andyour world for the better"

• "An antidote to polarisation... actually solving the problems that we face... in a way that is good for everyone"

• "We are not a single issue organisation... justice and compassion needs to be spread for everybody so that the world can be truly humane"

• Solutionary lens "you approach problems as solvable" instead of "us vs. them approaches"

• Critical thinking "what's true, what's false... lies at the foundation"

• Systems thinking "see the connections... identify causes... leverage points..."

• Strategic thinking

• Creative thinking

• Solutionary Framework: 4 phases, 12 steps

• Prioritising problems & identifying the one you wantto solve "Learn and learn then really dive deep... identify a narrow enough problem that you have the capacity to solve"

• The Solutionary Way in schools... 4th graders have bigconcerns but might not be able to address them in full... so what can they "feasibly solve"?

• "We have identified a leverage point which is theeducational system through which we are working on... all problems"

• "K-12 educational system is fundamentally working atthe root cause of every other societal system"

• "What happens in our educational system prepares usto be citizens"

• "A profoundly important core strategy... at the sametime many of the problems that we are facing are so immediate... we can't wait"

• "Sometimes the people who care most... wind up doingwork that is counter-productive... they may burn more bridges than they build"

• Dealing with activist burnout and depression

• Polarisation and populism in modern discourse... denial of a shared reality... denial of shared values... blaming instead of solutions

17:52 A Shared Reality?

25:17 Shared Values?

57:29 Thinking About Solutions

01:05:50 Education01:17:10 Follow Zoe and buy "The Solutionary Way"!

• June 25th book launch (pre-order now!)

• The Solutionary Way

• @ZoeWeil

• The Institute for Humane Education

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Devon Docherty, Carol Jasper and Maja Cullen are psychology researchers from the University of Stirling. Carol is a lecturer, Devon is a teaching assistant and Maja is a research assistant. Devon is also a researcher, writer and animal advocate with Surge and Earthling Ed.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:09 Welcome

03:25 Devon, Maja and Carol Introductions

• Psychology (human-animal interactions, clinical health) and animal advocacy

• Their papers on the paradoxes and dissonances of vegetarianism and pescetarianism

• Quantitative research: "science doesn't have to be about numbers... if we want to understand people... we need to do that with words... listen to their experiences... their own narratives... we all have positionality."

• "Science teaching so often is based entirely in pseudo-objectivity... subjectivity can be really powerful."

06:53 What's Real?

Carol:

• Growing up in a #presbyterian family. Attending Sundayschool. Exploring celtic / pagan mythology and spirituality.

• Reading the Bible "a really beautiful book... but howcan the old testament... be real?" Dad's response: "a way that people used to understand the world around them... in the absense of other explanations"

• Now constructing narratives in a scientific domain

• Belief in the supernatural? "I'd be really hesitantto say that we have all the answers... consciousness... I want to believe that there's a ghost in the machine although I know there isn't"

• Celtic confluence of the ephemeral and the tangible"intertwined together... I very much believe in the concrete real but also I like to think there's things we don't know and we don't understand yet... we should always be trying to find out more."

• "Maybe it's just... physical energy... but I like to think there's something beyond us... hope there's some other... maybe there's some hope that they could come and help us get everything right."

Devon:

• "It's really complex being a human sometimes."

• catholic family and school "very strict catholic teaching"

• "Religion never really resonated with me"

• "The teacher was telling us that animals don't have souls... That was the moment that I realised that I really do have these strong views."

• "I had a dog at the time... she was just as full and complex of a being as I was."

• Moving away from religion to "do my own thing"

• "I'm pretty terrified of death"

• Focusing on morality "That's my thing - rather thananything outside of the realm of what we can see and how we can treat other people"

• JW: Psychological motivations for religious belief: fearof uncertainty, fear of death, a hope that god has a plan

• "I got to learn more and more about the Catholicchurch and realise how much I disagree with it"

• JW: Epistemological and ethical reasons people move away from religion

Maja:

• Growing up in Germany, then moving to Scotland

• "It was rare... to meet someone who wasn't christened"

... and much more! (full notes at sentientism.info)

47:55 What and Who Matters?

01:12:05 A Better World?

01:37:15 Follow!

Carol: @DrCarolJasper, @veganfoodtrainer
Maja: @maja_cullen_
Devon: @devonmdocherty, Devon on LinkedIn, @earthlinged

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Michael is a developmental and synthetic biologist at Tufts University where he is the Vannevar Bush Distinguished Professor. He is also an associate faculty at the Wyss Institute at Harvard. Michael is a director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts University and the Tufts Center for Regenerative and Developmental Biology. He is also co-director of the Institute for Computationally Designed Organisms. Michael's Levin Lab focuses on "Embodied Minds: understanding diverse intelligence in evolved, designed, and hybrid complex systems" and works "at the intersection of developmental biology, artificial life, bioengineering, synthetic morphology, and cognitive science". This work includes the bioengineering of novel living machines and has clinical applications in regenerative medicine. Michael has editing roles at a number of academic journals and has published more than 350 papers.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:18 Welcome

• "We biologists have plenty of spherical cows"

03:50 Mike's Introduction

04:37 What's Real?

• A "not religious but highly spiritual" Jewish background

• Hebrew school " I harrassed everybody with questions.... how souls are supposed to work...the hard problem of consciousness... the answers weren't terribly forthcoming."

• At home "an emphasis on inquiry... asking big questions... things that matter"

• "The question of 'how do I know?' figured prominently in my childhood"

• "Rationality is an amazing tool but one can also ask questions about its limitiations... what are the things that we're not seeing"

• Being sceptical about the approaches you're bringing to a problem

• "I pretty much only have one supernatural belief which is that the universe is understandable... Once you've taken that on everything else becomes possible... I can't think of anything that would be truly supernatural..."

• "We are finite beings" trying to understand reality then "you have to ask yourself 'how is this working out?... isthis helping me have a more meaningful life... be a more ethical person... have better relationships with others?'"

• "I don't really think of myself as a biologist... myfundamental commitment... has been to understand embodied mind"

• "I'm interested in cognition, intelligence and innerperspective in a wide range of diverse systems... some of which are alive"

• "I think cognition is a broader category than life"

• "It just so happens that life is, so far, our best example of how that can scale"

• "Molecular networks scaling into cells scaling into tissues scaling into organisms and beyond"

• Collective intelligence, goals... "biology is an excellent playground for these things"

• Cognition, mind etc. "All of these cognitive claims... where you think something is on the spectrum... how much mind... I don't think these are terms describing particular systems. I think these are terms describing our intended relationship to them... an engineering interaction protocol"

51:04 What and Who Matters?

01:08:53 A Better World?

Follow Michael

• drmichaellevin.org

• thoughtforms.life

• @drmichaellevin

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Emilia is co-author of the book Think Like A Vegan and host of the Think Like a Vegan podcast. She is involved in the Birchfield Highlands re-wilding project in Scotland, edits the quarterly magazine for The Heath & Hampstead Society in London and has developed life skills and ethics workshops for underserved youth. Professionally, she has been a corporate finance lawyer for over 20 years.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.00:00 Clips!

01:25 Welcome

• Shared Sentientism guests with @thinklikeavegan :

• Troy Vettese episode

• Josh Milburn episode

• Aysha Akhtar episode

04:41 Emilia's Intro

• Corporate finance, vegan writing / podcasting, rewildingin Scotland, magazine editing

05:45 What's Real?

• Growing up in Italy

• catholic school "which I hated... it never made sense to me that only some people... would go to heaven"

• Letting teachers know at 5-6 years old "this doesn'tmake any sense"... "they kind of stopped asking me questions"

• Dad is an Indian philosophy professor

• Investigating eastern and western traditions and religions"I said 'none of it matters'... it matters what I do here and now"

• "People have their traditions and I love that...butfor me ultimately I don't need to have any of that"

• "The fundamental of all of them is love... just practice it"

• "That love then turns in to a respect and a valuing... of sentient life... and everything that's around us"

• "Plants & funghi... even minerals and mountains... they may not feel anything but that doesn't matter... it's allconnected"

• "The fate of the least among us... is extremely important"

• "Bees and insects... how they go, we go"

• "I don't need an outside force to tell me to do the right thing"

• "A certain basic fairness... treat everyone the same unless there's a morally relevant reason to treat them differently"

• "I have personally witnessed things that I cannot explain... there's lots of things I don't know... so I've decided that's fine"

• "You have to leave space for changing your mind... welearn everything!"

• JW: How broken epistemology can lead "good" people to do terrible things

• The ethical and epistemological errors that justify animalagriculture

• Maneesha Deckha's "beingness" concept

• "We as advocates have to be better at our own rhetoric"

• "We live in a capitalist, non-vegan world... so therewill be inherent things that you are not going to be able to solve"

• "You don't need to be well versed in philosophy... wecan all get there"

• Examining what's driving our actions... fear (of others,change, deistic reprisal, social norms, admitting we were wrong)

• JW: Uncommon common sense re: ethical and epistemic basics

• Humans building convenient hierarchies "as long asyou're at the top"

• "Animal agribusiness has never been nice... 10,000years ago... 5,000 years ago... there's always objectification, exploitation and death... that doesn't change"

• "To the being - you only have one life"26:20 What Matters?

53:13 Who Matters?

01:00:42 A Better World?

01:22:00 Follow Emilia

• EmiliaLeese.com

• Think Like a Vegan Podcast

• @emiisgoodeating

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Keith Tucker is founder and Executive Director of Hip Hop is Green, a nonprofit organization on a mission to support holistic wellness and transform urban communities environmentally. He has been a visionary and social entrepreneur for over 30 years. He has worked with hundreds of businesses, youth groups and community organizations and many icons in the entertainment business as a creative promoter and an ambassador for the culture of hip hop.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:19 Welcome

02:44 Keith's Intro

• Founder and ED of Hip Hop is Green

• "I'm a father, a brother, a friend, a husband and currently I'm a human being living on earth"

03:19 What's Real?

• Growing up in Seattle, raised by mother, grandmother and grandfather

• Religious grandparents

• Going to #baptist church

• Attending strict #catholic school, taught by nuns "I remember sister Sheila - boy she was mean"

• Catholic high school in California

• "Some rough times." Drugs (from 13 yrs old), street-life "in with the wrong crowd"

• Grandmother and mother "I'm so blessed and fortunate to have had them in my life... gave me a great foundation of morals and values and patience and determination"

• Lending a bike and having it stolen "I'm a very giving and nice person... I have to beware... trust has its limits"

• 31 years clean & sober now

• "My values who I am today were actually both shaped by good things that happened to me and bad things that happened to me"

• "Just really good people", not because of their religion...

• "...spiritual as well... my grandmother used to call it motherwit... I still have that today... I just get a feeling... it's always 100% right every time... everybody has it to... some people listen to their motherwit more than others"

• "Back in the early '70s it was a different world... in school they could paddle you in class... in front of everyone... there was no such thing as non-bullying"

• Being taught the Bible "I never really questioned anything... absorbed it into who I am... although I wasn't following most of the Bible to be honest at that point... I was more interested in having fun and partying... not really focusing on why I'm here, who I am and what my purpose is"

• Last time used drugs. Motherwit voice spoke very loud "you may not live through this." Attending a treatment centre, guided by the motherwit voice "it's not luck"

• April 7 1992 "I need to change my life... I kept that commitment all the way through to today... the weight had been lifted off me."

• Finishing treatment, moving to the Texas countryside- Starting to figure out "who is Keith Tucker... what is my purpose?... Baptism through fire."

• "I am not Christian or religious today.... but I am very spiritual and I believe in god."

• "I walk in my purpose and in god's purpose every single day... helping people and serving people is what my purpose is"

• "The people that were enslaved... were introduced to the Bible... as a system to keep their minds enslaved."

• "Using religion to chain people's minds"

29:30 What Matters?

47:30 Who Matters?

01:05:40 A Better World?

01:28:24 Follow Keith

• Hip Hop is Green

• @hiphopisgreen

• HHIG on Instagram

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Hakeem Jimo is co-founder and CEO of Veggie Victory, Nigeria’s first plant-based food tech company. Hakeem and his partner, Bola Adeyanju, also founded Nigeria's first vegan restaurant, V Café, and now run the VChunks meat alternative product company - designed to help veganise Nigerian cuisine. Hakeem is also country director for ProVeg Nigeria.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:36 Welcome

01:59 Hakeem's Intro

• Nigerian father, German mother, growing up in Germany, now in Nigeria

• 10 years of veganism and vegan entrepreneurship

• Establishing ProVeg Nigeria

03:45 What's Real?

• Not much supernatural thinking in small-town Germany "there were more cows than humans"

• Lutheran evangelical protestant society but "we went to church twice a year... it was not a very religious background"

• Nigeria: "A completely different ballgame... the spiritual, religious world plays a much bigger role in Africa... religion is everywhere here... and I like it... In Africa I started to pray... you don't have that sense of control."

• Christianity, Islam as well as natural / traditional religions from the pre-colonial era

08:33 What Matters?

• "Every day I see these two sides", Germany (enlightenment, studying philosophy) and Nigeria (travelling as a journalist in W.Africa: "a completely different way people see the world")

• Only recently exploring the Bible (via podcasts) "just to understand historically"

• Finding references to treatment of animals in the Old and New Testaments

• Nigeria: "Religion is much more taken... by the letter" vs. the German way "it's just a parable"

• "If you're coming from a western background you justshape your belief system" vs. "people are handing over authority to another level"

• "How do we actually convince people... whether I'm inGermany or Nigeria?"

• "I walk through the streets here... it's funny... even though everybody is black and in Germany everybody is white I see features... very similar behaviours"

• "I see really the universal parts... that's where things come together... trying to change the world and not just a few enlightened people"

13:16 Who Matters?

• Step-father in Germany was a farmer "neighbours gottogether and bought a pig... the butcher coming to the farm"

• Hearing stories about factory farming "they wereusing nicotine to disinfect the chickens... there's something wrong here"... overfishing... foot and mouth disease

• "Nobody in rural Germany was talking about sentientism or veganism "

• University in Hamburg "there was an alternative mealin the canteen"... a vegetarian partner aware of history of US colonialist animal agriculture

• Travelling to West Africa and eating #streetfood"when I'm on a #vegetarian diet I don't get sick!" vs. getting typhoid fever from a road-side meat barbecue

• "You start learning... what's the implications... I realised... this is good... let me become vegetarian"

24:35 A Better Future?

48:41 Follow Hakeem

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/hakeemjimo/- https://veggievictory.com/ “We are winning with the veggies!”

• https://proveg.com/ng/...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a cross-post of my discussion with Richard Brown on his Consciousness Live YouTube podcast. Make sure you go and subscribe there too.

Richard is a professor of philosophy at City University of New York. His work is focused on the philosophy of mind, consciousness studies, and the foundations of cognitive science but he also works on the philosophy of language, metaethics, philosophy of physics, logic and the philosophy of logic, as well as the history of philosophy. As you can imagine, this made it an enjoyably brain-stretching conversation for me. Richard was also my guest on Sentientism way back on episode 57 if you want to see the tables turned the other way around.

I hope you enjoy listening as much as I did talking with Richard - feedback and suggestions are always welcome. As ever I'm only one Sentientist so others will disagree!

A warm welcome to everyone who has recently joined one of our ⁠⁠online Sentientism communities⁠⁠. More people join us there every day - whether they think of themselves as Sentientists or not. The groups are open to everyone.Just search for the word "Sentientism" on your favourite platforms (⁠⁠FaceBook is our biggest group⁠⁠) and you'll find us there.

Also check out the new ⁠⁠"In action" section⁠⁠ of Sentientism.info. We're building pages there about Sentientist Education, Politics, Rights, Economics, Justice, Agriculture, Environmentalism and more - come and help us work out what a more Sentientist world might look like.

A final thank you to Denise and Tarabella who found our ⁠⁠Sentientism Patreon⁠⁠ and are kindly contributing to our production costs - helping us steadily nudge the world towards "evidence, reason and compassion".

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Laura is Education Officer at The Vegan Society and Chair of The Vegan Society's Education Network. She is a qualified primary school teacher and well known for introducing the phrase ‘vegan-inclusive education’ to the education sector. Laura worked for several years as the UK’s only vegan inclusion education specialist under the pseudonym ‘Primary Veducation’ and continues to offer training to school staff on what it means to be vegan and how to appropriately teach and treat vegan learners in their care. Laura also empowers vegan learners and parents/guardians by facilitating the creation of peer-developed and reviewed resources and offering supportive interventions.

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:14 Welcome

03:20 Laura's Intro

• Supporting vegan learners & their families ineducation (vs. discrimination, being misunderstood)

• Former primary school teacher "my first love"

• Supporting the educators. Building the world's first andonly CPD (continuous professional development) training course helping educators in being "vegan inclusive"

• Leaving teaching after becoming vegan "I felt thatthe curriculum clashed with my ethics too much"

• Vegan daughter starts school "They told me that theyweren't going to provide a lunch for her... I was crying around the supermarket getting a packed lunch... my daughter is the most compassionate, kind & loving girl... I think she's being discriminated against."

• Working with friends to create the UK's first vegan menuin her school

• Starting "Primary Veducation" as a free consultancy

• "Theorising vegan-inclusive education"

• "To live through that [discrimination] was mind-boggling... I felt like I was by myself... on my own... all of these things were just completely flipped... I had to find this voice... I believed I was the only vegan the village... who would even care?"

• Finding a vegan community. A wave of vegan parents wanting help "I realised it's not just me... shouting in this echo chamber"

• "Everything I'd been taught... by people who I respected... my parents, my teachers, religious leaders... told me that one thing was correct... it wasn't"

• "Everything felt undone... it did feel utterly heartbreaking... something good has come out of it"

11:44 What's Real?- Jewish family. Russian-Latvian-Irish-British

• Grandmother born Christian, converted to #judaism

• Attending Jewish school, Synagogue and Sunday School

• Mother "wanted my brother and I to be the most Jewishwe could possibly be so we could fit in... Bar and Bat Mitvah's"

• "Religion... become something... neither of us... areparticularly driven by anymore"

• Brother & family atheist

• Valuing Jewish community, tradition, culture, food..."it's familiar"

• "A lot of the just have blind faith and don't question... god did this, god created that, we live the way the 10 commandments tell us to - anything other than that is just outrageous"

25:30 What & Who Matters?

44:57 Making a Better World?

01:17:12 Follow Laura

• Laura at The Vegan Society

• @laura_diamondo

• Veducated:An Educator’s Guide for Vegan Inclusive Teaching

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross-post of my discussion with fellow Sentientist Amy Halpern-Laff and Jon Moscow on their Ethical Schools podcast. Make sure you go and subscribe there too!

A warm welcome to everyone who has recently joined one of our ⁠online Sentientism communities⁠. More people join us there every day - whether they think of themselves as Sentientists or not. The groups are open to everyone.Just search for the word "Sentientism" on your favourite platforms (⁠FaceBook is our biggest group⁠) and you'll find us there.

Also check out the new ⁠"In action" section⁠ of Sentientism.info. We're building pages there about Sentientist Education, Politics, Rights, Economics, Justice, Agriculture, Environmentalism and more - come and help us work out what a more Sentientist world might look like.

A final thank you to Denise and Tarabella who found our ⁠Sentientism Patreon⁠ and are kindly contributing to our production costs - helping us steadily nudge the world towards "evidence, reason and compassion".

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠.

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Jimmy Videle is a farmer, naturalist & researcher. He is author of The Veganic Grower’s Handbook and co-founder of NAVCS-Certified Veganic. His writing has appeared in many publications including CounterPunch, Countercurrents & LA Progressive.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!01:01 Welcome03:08 Jimmy's Intro- 20 years in farming- A naturalist... observes and scientifically tries to understand nature "my passion". Over 10,000 hours of field research "a lot of time outside"- Author of The Veganic Grower's Handbook "how to grow... without the products of animals or having any animals on the farm"04:50 What's Real?- German Roman Catholic mother, Italian Catholic father- Church every Sunday, communion at 5-6 yrs old- 12 yrs old heading toward confirmation- Only child, parents divorcing, a tough patch at high school "It's probably a little easier if you have siblings... I went into my own little bubble... I always felt very comfortable alone"- Attending weekly catechism, dad asks if Jimmy still wants to go... "Dad... I really wanna just play baseball... this was our religion!"- "When you're really worried about what people are thinking about you you spend less time delving into the bigger questions... at that time it was the purpose of... 'I want people to like me'"- Music scholarship to college in California... meeting lifelong friends... hippy influence... "this idea that love could rule all... the biggest moment - flash of my life... wow love"- "The idea of god... I was never totally comfortable"- Having to confess sins "I didn't have any... I'd have to make something up..."- "I always believed that there was god... but I always had a tough time with this god... always judging us... always making us feel bad... like victims... and we're only going to be saved when we die... when we have a chance... to go to heaven"- In my 19-20''s "I realised that wasn't going to be my path"- The #iching & "Animal Spirit Guides" by Steven Farmer "Maybe nature is also telling me something... nature has a message and all I have to do is listen and learn"- "I have my hands actually in the earth... I'm feeling something that most people don't"- Living on top of some of the earth's oldest rocks "I also want to believe that that rock has knowledge from 4 billion years ago"- "For me... a bacterium is as sentient as I am"- "Maybe it is all natural... maybe there's nothing mystical about it at all... start thinking about what it is to be a wolf or a deer or a hemlock tree... how can we see the world then?"- "To even believe that we are the only sentient being on the planet... it's as arrogant as we can get"- "What I believe now... #animism... the original religion... maybe it's the way nature looks at the world... every living being has a breath or a soul... anima..."

32:03 What and Who Matters?01:09:03 A Better World?01:41:32 Follow Jimmy- Facebook- The Veganic Growers Handbook- observatory.wiki/Jimmy_Videle- humaneherald.org/publications/- Certified Veganic- Boileau Biodiversity Crowdfunder

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Troy Vettese is an environmental historian who specializes in environmental economics, animal studies, and energy history. In 2019 he completed his doctorate in history at New York University. From 2019 to 2021, he worked at Harvard University as a William Lyon Mackenzie King postdoctoral research fellow. He has collaborated with Drew Pendergrass, an environmental engineer, on numerous projects including their book Half-Earth Socialism: A Plan to Save the Future from Extinction, Climate Change and Pandemics .

Troy is currently revising his dissertation on neoliberal environmental thought into a book, tentatively titled 'Beyond Externality'. In addition to his academic work, Vettese writes on a wide array of environmental topics for a popular audience, and has had essays published in the Guardian, the New Statesman, Jacobin, N+1, Book Forum, and Boston Review.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:04 Welcome

02:58 Troy's Intro

• Half-Earth Socialism "what does it look like to havean ecologically stable society... a good relationship with other beings on this planet and also to ensure a good life for everyone"

• The Half-Earth Socialism computer game & maybe afuture board-game

05:44 What's Real?

• Ecosocialism and #neoliberalism in conversation with each other

• Growing up in a fairly conservative but non-religious household

• Being a Young Tory, reading Milton Friedman

• In early 20's "a crisis of faith in terms of this conservative worldview" due to the Iraq war and the 2008 financial crisis

• Reading Marx and New Left Review

• Exploring the environmental crisis

• A sensitive child, then a toxic masculinity phase as ateenager (callous, eating meat, machismo), then, alongside the crisis of faith in conservatism, a wish to return to childhood passion for nature

• Gravitating towards ecosocialism

• Didn't "grow up with red diapers" (being broughtup in a left wing family) so feeling inoculated as knows the political right very well as "I came from the right to the left"

• greenwashing measures "I wanted to understand where these ideas had come from... no one had done an intellectual history of these things"

• Challenging the common leftist view that the right &neoliberalism doesn't have any real intellectual depth "I took it more seriously than most socialists"

• "I thought the left should have more concrete ideasof their own... match the rigour of these conservative ones"

• "'We'll figure it out after the revolution'... that's not enough"

• Mother who ran for the Green party in elections

• Not religious now

• "Sceptical of thinking that there's one true path...one true way of relating to each other or to animals"... relativism, Kuhnian (paradigms)?

• The neoliberal view of the market as the optimal information processor

• Being rational but also appreciating thespiritual/subliminal/subjective? "that's why I'm a big bird watcher"

• The "spark bird" that gets you into #birdwatching

• deleuze "Becoming animal" vs. #Haraway's notionof "becoming with"

17:50 What Matters?

27:33 Who Matters?

54:15 A Better World?

01:29:55 Follow Troy...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Tom is an internationally acclaimed artist, published author, and social justice activist. He is an expert and consultant on animal liberation history and strategy, and the global animal rights movement. His first book, Your Neighbour Kills Puppies was released in March 2024. The book is the previously untold story of one of the world’s most powerful social justice campaigns, Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty (SHAC). Tom became involved in the animal liberation movement at the age of fifteen when he attended his first hunt sab. Over the years that followed he devoted his life to helping animals and co-founded one of the UK`s most successful regional animal rights organizations, SARC (The Southern Animal Rights Coalition). Tom is a regular contributor to Forca Vegan magazine, and other periodicals. Under the professional name ‘Tattoo Tom‘, Tom has also achieved a highly successful and acclaimed career as an artist.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

00:49 Welcome

• Nicola Harris and Anita Krajnc episode @PlantBasedTreaty

03:18 Tom's Intro

• 20 years in the #animalliberation movement

• Founding the Southern Animal Rights Coalition

• Closing a military research facility, a puppy farm, several chicken units

• Getting fur and foie gras out of shops

• SHAC (Stop Huntingdon Animal Cruelty) co-ordinators"the largest and most dynamic grass-roots animal liberation campaign"

• "The model we came up with was so effective... thatthe American and British governments were both really terrified... while I don't think any of us necessarily set out to create a blueprint that could end capitalism... I think we probably came dangerously close"

• "The government in the UK essentially framed us andset us up on bogus blackmail charges... I received a 5 year prison sentence for... a lawful campaign... I served 2 years."

• 3 years on bail before-hand and 2.5 years on licenseafterwards with a tag "which was probably the toughest bit... I wasn't allowed to talk to my brother... a constant threat that they were going to send me back to prison."

• Since release, finding a very different animal liberationworld

• Lord Sainsbury's intention "to eliminate theanti-vivisection movement... he succeeded for a good decade"

• "The movement I knew didn't exist... new groups likethe Save Movement, Animal Rebellion, DxE... started forming"

• Taking up tattoo artistry because "I was essentiallybanned from talking to any other activist... any other vegan... all of my friends I wasn't allowed to talk to them"

• "Stabbing people for money" :)

10:10 What's Real?

• "I actually dropped out of a philosophy degree to domore animal rights activism"

• Growing up in a non-religious family, probably atheists

• Christian grandparents "it was good for them... I sawthe positives"

• Cartographer dad, psychologist mum, quite analytical /logical focus

• "I didn't learn when to stop following that logical path"

• "I was raised to be kind to animals and respect nature... to value life"

26:13 What and Who Matters?

01:04:53 A Better Future?

01:45:00 Follow Tom

TomHarris.me
Shacjustice.com
@Tattoo_tom

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Dr Sabine Brels is a lawyer dedicated to advancing animal protection law worldwide. She teaches international and comparative animal law and published books on animal related-issues in French and English. In the last 15 years, she directed Global Animal Law (GAL) project and worked as legal advisor for the World Federation for Animals, the Eurogroup for Animals, and Compassion in World Farming. Besides her consulting work, she is currently leading the World Animal Justice NGO that she founded in 2023.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:09 Welcome

• Sabine's previous appearance on episode 66

02:15 Sabine's Intro

• internationallaw , #animallaw and #animalrights

03:17 International vs. national law

• icc #icj #unitednations

• Laws of genocide, humanitarianism, crimes against humanity...

• Policy, law, regulation, enforcement

• Regional law e.g. EU, Asia

07:34 World Animal Justice

• Bringing non-human animals into international law

• "An animal law revolution"

• CrimesAgainstAnimality or #sentientity ?

• "Massive crimes against animals happen every day, everywhere worldwide... it's our collective responsibility"

• "Every day the entire European Union population is killed... that's a reality for animals... 450 million of animals are killed per day... this is only for food... every second it's 5000 animals killed"

• "It's not acceptable when we know that we can do otherwise... that this is avoidable"

• Companion, stray, laboratory, sport, working, wild animals "they are all victims of crimes against animality"

• Crimes against humanity: massive murders, sequestrations, enslavement, deportations, torture, violence including sexual violence "this is what is actually happening against animals every day... and it can still be legal in some places"

• Anti-cruelty and pro-welfare laws: "usually to reduce the suffering of these exploited animals or to condemn some acts of cruelty... against companion animals"

• "1/3 of countries today still have nothing to protect animals - not even the basic anti-cruelty laws"

• "Some of the most cruel practices are still legal in some countries..." force-feeding for #foiegras and #bullfighting in France are "a kind of torture for animals"

• The potential for a global consensus at least against some of those most egregious practices "That's wrong for animals but also for our human dignity"

• India and some South American countries: have granted some rights to great apes or large mammals based on poor treatment in zoos

• WAJ: "Go faster and higher... criminality against animals is huge"

• Welfare / anti-cruelty approaches "we are not taking this concern for the gravity it is"

• "If we were doing the same to humans... it would seem unbelievable that it would be still legal... we would cry about genocides and crimes against humanity"

• WAJ's network of experts and NGOs spanning 5 continents

28:22 WAJ Expert Network and Strategy37:00 Impacts on Animal AgricultureFollow Sabine and @WorldAnimalJustice :

• WAJ contact: contact@worldanimaljustice.org

• WAJ Website

• WAJ introductory Video

• WAJ Linkedin

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross-post of my discussion with Leslie Rosenblood, host of Podcast For Inquiry. Podcast For Inquiry is produced by the Center For Inquiry Canada. Leslie describes it as a podcast for scientific, skeptical, secular, rational and humanistic (and maybe now sentientst) inquiry. Make sure you go and subscribe there too.

I also wanted to extend a warm welcome to everyone who has recently joined one of our online Sentientism communities. More people join us there every day - whether they think of themselves as Sentientists or not. The groups are open to everyone.Just search for the word "Sentientism" on your favourite platforms (FaceBook is our biggest group) and you'll find us there.

Also check out the new "In action" section of Sentientism.info. We're building pages there about Sentientist Education, Politics, Rights, Economics, Justice, Agriculture, Environmentalism and more - come and help us work out what a more Sentientist world might look like.

A final thank you to Denise and Tarabella who found our Sentientism Patreon and are kindly contributing to our production costs - helping us steadily nudge the world towards "evidence, reason and compassion".

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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David specializes in European philosophy, the history and philosophy of science and the philosophy of animal minds. He is interested in the problem of consciousness, the study of lived experience and the value of the humanities. David lives in San Francisco, California. He is Associate Professor of Humanities at San Francisco State University. He has previously worked at Johns Hopkins University, Laurentian University, Dillard University, and Emory University (where he received his Ph.D. in 2015). He is the author of "When Animals Dream: The Hidden World of Animal Consciousness" and co-host, with Ellie Anderson, of the Overthink Podcast. His work has been covered by The New York Times, CNN, ABC, The Atlantic, Le Parisian, El País, and Forbes, among others.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!01:14 Welcome- Our two way para-social relationships- Sharing #naturalistic thinking & an interest in expanding our #moralcircle based on #sentience 04:48 David's Intro- Continental philosophy, teaching humanities, animal minds/ethics/politics, the science of consciousness & co-hosting @OverthinkPodcastPhilosophy - "There's something equally mysterious & fascinating & alluring... about the minds of other creatures."- Links between animal academia & animal movements (rights, welfare...) "Most of it is happening beyond the ivory tower of higher education... it's happening on the ground with people who are committed to the goal of #animalliberation"08:10 What's Real?- "It's hard to know how much weight to give to those early experiences..."- Raised #catholic - A small town in Mexico where "Catholicism was the economic driving force of town life... 5-10 thousand people that would be overrun by a million religious pilgrims 5 times a year"- Manifestation of the virgin Mary with indigenous roots with a reputed power to do health miracles- Disenchantment "I really saw the church & faith largely as a story that we the locals told in order to bring in tourists... As a child I never really understood that we were really meant to believe the content of the stories"- A "great 11 year old awakening" and a "show-down with my mother... I don't want to go to church... I don't actually believe any of this... my mother had no problem with that which further just confirmed my suspicion that a lot of this was just surface"- "Catholics... we tend to be very bad at reading the bible - we usually just get our lessons from the priest... for me it seemed like smoke & mirrors"- "From my early teen years I leaned towards a naturalistic outlook of the world and the cosmos... I do think the world is composed of matter, of motion, of the fundamental forces of physics..."- "That does not necessarily mean that I am a #rationalist ... I don't think that our human cognitive architecture is necessarily so imperious and mighty that it is poised to uncrack all the mysteries of nature..."34:59 What Matters?57:05 Who Matters?01:14:15 How To Make A Better World?01:22:42 Follow David- David at SFSU

• Overthink

• When Animals Dream

• @DrPenaGuzman1

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross post of my conversation with ⁠Nick Pendergrast⁠⁠⁠ on the 3CR ⁠⁠⁠Freedom of Species⁠⁠ radio show and podcast he co-hosts. In this, my third time as their guest (thank you!), we talk about the "Logic of the Larder" - an argument that animal farming could potentially be good for animals.

You can subscribe to 3CR's ⁠⁠⁠Freedom of Species⁠ wherever you listen. ⁠⁠3CR is a community radio station based in Melbourne⁠⁠⁠, Australia. Nick and the other co-hosts have a fascinating range of guests, conversations and also music with a message.

Nick has been a guest on Sentientism too - have a listen to ⁠⁠episode 88⁠⁠⁠ if you'd like to hear his thoughts about what's real, who matters and how can we make a better world. You might also be interested in Sentientism episode 156 with Peter Singer where we discuss his uncertainty about the Logic of the Larder.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Jonathan is an ethics strategist, writer, social changeadvocate and public speaker. He is Executive Director of the Organisation for the Prevention of Intense Suffering (OPIS), a Swiss-based think-and-do tank that promotes the prevention of human and non-human suffering as our overriding global ethical priority. His book, The Battle for Compassion: Ethics in an Apathetic Universe, explores the question "What matters?". His new book The Tango of Ethics: Intuition, Rationality and the Prevention of Suffering goes further in proposing a rigorous reassessment of how we think about ethics.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Clips!

01:00 Welcome

03:34 Jon's Intro

• Molecular biology PhD

• Ethicist

• Writing "The Battle for Compassion" and "The Tango of Ethics"

• Running the "think and do tank" OPIS (Organisation for the Prevention of Intense Suffering) "Trying to put the ideas into practice"

04:41 What's Real?

• A scientific family, physicist father

• "A naturalistic, mechanistic way of thinking about the world"

• "It's not that there was no #spirituality at all... a #Jewish household that was more traditional than religious... Reciting things that I didn't necessarily understand the meaning of"

• "...a brief phase where I did take things [religious prescriptions] more literally... but that didn't last very long"

• "Seeing the world as inherently physical"

• "Not to say that the subjective doesn't matter... the subjective is the essence of what matters"

• Maternal grandfather "I remember him describing himself as a Humanist... his way of saying 'don't take the supernatural too seriously'"

• "I think spirituality is an important part of life... but I don't think of spirituality in the supernatural sense... I think of spirituality in terms of the experience... a feeling that there is an intense meaning possible in life."

• "During spiritual experiences we might suspend the very rational perspective. You can't really be fully plunged into a spiritual experience if you're also trying to analyse things scientifically at the same time."

• In circles with people, lighting a fire, reciting poetry... "it feels like a source of meaning at times to get into that other state of mind."

• "It's this dance between two very different perspectives"

• "How do we reconcile the need to understand reality as accurately as possible using the tools of rationality and science and how do we also extract meaning from our existence?"

• JW: Instead of a scientistic denial or a mystical reification of the subjective... a recognition that our subjective experiences are part of the objective world we all share... and are the source of its value

• Subjective experience is determined by the physical "but you won't actually know what it's like... without having experiencedit yourself"

13:25 What Matters?

• "Subjective experience... it's the most important part of reality... the only part of reality that really matters when it comes down to ethics..."

46:40 Who Matters?

01:03:37 How To Make A Better World?

01:19:43 Follow Jon and OPIS

• https://www.jonathanleighton.org/

• https://www.preventsuffering.org/

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Welcome to episode 184 of the Sentientism Podcast. A podcast about what's real, who matters and how we can make a better world.

The Sentientism worldview answers those deep questions by committing to evidence, reason and compassion for all sentient beings.

This episode is a bonus cross-post of my discussion with Ariel Pontes. His Ghostless Machine podcast includes a series of dialogues where he has friendly disagreements over controversial topics with a variety of guests. I had the pleasure of being his first. Make sure you go and subscribe.

I hope you enjoy listening as much as I did talking to Ariel - feedback and suggestions are always welcome. As ever I'm only one Sentientist so others will disagree!

In ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientist Conversations⁠⁠⁠⁠ we talk about the three most important questions: “what’s real?”, “what (and who) matters?” and "how can we make a better future?"

The Sentientism worldview answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Thanks to Tarabella and Denise for chipping in with our production costs via the secret(ish) ⁠⁠⁠Sentientism Patreon⁠⁠⁠.

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Chris is the Director of Bryant Research and the Head of Policy at the Alternative Proteins Association. He is a social scientist and an expert on alternative protein markets and marketing. He has published several papers on consumer acceptance, policy, nutritional value, and other social dimensions of cultivated meat, plant-based meat, and fermentation-derived animal product alternatives. He has worked with alternative protein companies and non-profits, including THIS, Formo, Ivy Farm Technologies, Aleph Farms, Wild Type, ProVeg International, Mercy For Animals, and the Good Food Institute.In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Clips!

00:53 Welcome

02:55 Chris' Intro

• Social science research and analysis helping those "trying to move our foodsystem away from animals and towards alternatives"

• "Industrial animal farming... one of the biggest utility sinks"

06:46 What's Real?

• Growing up in a "nominally religious" household... "vaguely Christian"

• Turning to #atheism and thinking "what is the answer then... what does matter?"

• An interest in philosophy at university "realised that philosophy was the thing I had been talking about"

• Going #vegetarian

• effectivealtruism "an incredibly powerful tool... applying empirical evidence to altruistic intentions... trying to come up with the best ways of doing good... given limited resources"

• "I had a good go at #hedonism in the interim though"

• Naturalistic #epistemology and "being willing to be wrong aboutthings"

• The dangers of unquestioned assumptions

• Crash testing ideas that go against the mainstream (e.g. are "processed" foods really unhealthy?)

• Choosing good sources, doing research and running experiments

• How people form and update beliefs: cognitive dissonance, motivated reasoning, working backwards to justify what we want to believe or do (e.g. consuming animal products)...

• Even before that: ignorance (not knowing) and neglect / avoidance (not thinking about it)"Most people have probably never thought about that question [e.g. what % of animals are factory farmed]". "It's important to reach those people [~50%?] with just the reality and the facts"

• Strongly and weakly-held beliefs

• "For some people that's progress... at least they're having to do the mental gymnastics whereas before it had just never occurred to them"

• "The fact that so few people have thought about it should be some kind of weird hope for vegetarians and vegans"

• Push [away from animal products - ethics, environment, health] and pull [towards the alternatives - cheap, healthy, appealing, available] factors. "Really for long time we didn't have very good pull factors... appealing alternatives to offer people."

• Motivated reasoning: "If I lose this argument I'll have to go vegan and only eat beans... but if you can have burgers and nuggets and everything else... I'm not very motivated to try and defend this view any more"

• Social norms & the expectations of others "Not just what I think of veg*ism but what do others think of it"

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

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Tania is the Arthur W. Marks Professor of Psychology at Princeton University. She oversees the Concepts and Cognition Laboratory, which uses the empirical tools of cognitive psychology and the conceptual tools of analytic philosophy to study the human mind. Their research focuses on topics including explanation, learning, causal reasoning, and folk epistemology. Tania is the recipient of numerous early-career awards including the Stanton Prize from the Society for Philosophy and Psychology, the Spence Award from the Association for Psychological Science, a CAREER award from the National Science Foundation and a James S. McDonnell Foundation Scholar Award in Understanding Human Cognition. She blogs about psychology, philosophy, and cognitive science at Psychology Today and for NPR’s 13.7: Cosmos & Culture.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome 01:49 Tania Intro

• interdisciplinary human #cognitivescience

• Links to #epistemology & #ethics "I came to cognitive science from a background largely in philosophy of science & epistemology"

• Questions at the boundary of empirical psychology & philosophy "how can we know things, what is knowledge, what does it mean to understand, how do we acquire understanding, how can we make the correct decisions"

• "We can learn a lot from #philosophy "

• What makes a compelling explanation & why we are so motivated to explain

03:57 What's Real?

• "Because I am a psychologist I'm deeply sceptical of my own introspective sense"

• Growing up in a #Jewish household and "I still identify as Jewish"

• Jewish identity, community, ritual... "at the same time I feel like theistic beliefs just played pretty much no role in that at all"

• Prayers: "They certainly talk about god, they certainly talk about occurrences that seem very, very implausible... but that just seemed to me to be not deeply connected to what was valuable or important about that religious identity growing up"

• "That sounds somewhat foreign to many people I know from other religions where belief is really at the core of what it means to have a particular kind of a religious identity"

• Not speaking Hebrew "you're able to get to a certain point where something might have meaning for you... before you actually know what it means"

• "I definitely had experiences of actually reading the translations and being taken aback by them... this is what I've been saying?"

• Hebrew School "I told my parents that it I thought it was a waste of time and I didn't want to keep going"

• In high school "sought out Jewish education on my own... I discovered I was the only person there whose parents hadn't forced them to be there... it was a miserable class"

• "I had a Jewish wedding... one of the conversations that we had with our Rabbi was that we didn't want god to be mentioned"

• "Threading that needle... preserve some elements of a tradition that's meaningful... how to do it in a way that's consistent with other values that I hold."

• "I think I'm a straightforward boring naturalist"

• "I have no doubt that I routinely employ all sorts of background assumptions that I have not subjected to scrutiny & that I could not give good evidence based arguments for..." What Matters? Who Matters? A Better Future? ...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Jared is a researcher at the Allen Institute for Artificial Intelligence. Until the summer of 2023 he was a lecturer at the University of Washington School of Computer Science. While there he created a class on the philosophy of AI and created and taught an ethics course as well as teaching technical artificial intelligence courses. His satirical novel "The Strength of The Illusion" was published in the summer of 2023. Previous Sentientism guest Mark Solms called it "extraordinary".

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Clips!

00:56 Welcome

02:23 Jared Intro

• AI research, teaching philosophy, AI ethics and AI tech

• "What are the right things to do and how do we bring those things about"

• "AI is a sandbox... to test out these ideas"

• Jared's philosophical novel, "The Strength of the Illusion" "A timely meditation on what happens when artificial intelligence clashes with human stupidity"

• "#philosophyofmind ... what it means to think, to learn..."

05:12 What's Real?

• "I grew up with a father that derided religion"

• A "very atheistic upbringing... in some parts I regret" vs. "more religious community centred upbringings"

• Not convinced re: god or spirituality but "that's not to say that I want to discount the feelings of religious experiences"

• William James

• Irish grandmother "she hates the #catholic church with a passion"

• Father is a doctor encountering lots of "anti-science"

• Joining a gospel choir at University "I'm not religious but it's a really fun and enlivening way to approach life"

• "It's not been my life to combat religion... the 'Four Horsemen'... Dan Dennett, Sam Harris..."

• "I think there's value in being kind to each other when you talk about this [religion]"

• "Few people are willing to actually debate the tenets of their beliefs... that's the tension between science and religion"

• "The unwillingness, by design, to accept alternative hypotheses and test their views is what perpetuates religion"

• Spirituality: "I haven't been drawn... it seems a bit like #mysterianism... an appeal to mystery before the facts are out."

• "Could we not explain consciousness, morality... I think that we can eventually explain those things through rigourous science"

• Rejections of the possibility of explaining consciousness: Searle's Chinese Room, Nagel's "What Is It Like To Be A Bat?"... "These appeals are in a sense spiritual... they're appealing to some sort of mystery"

• "That explanation does not need to be a let down -just because we can explain the illusion doesn't mean that the illusion doesn't exist"

• "There's a degree of bad blood"... history of scientists denying or avoiding or deriding things because the evidence isn't yet there to enable study (e.g. #behaviourists ignoring mental states)

• "Scientists are imperfect and can be mean"

• Do AIs have epistemology - JW: "are they learning, can they know things?"

• llms (large language models) like OpenAI's #chatgpt "Do they understand language?"

• "They... seem to be able to use language OK... they make errors but humans make errors too"

21:25 What & Who Matters?

44:24 Who Matters?

01:09:25 A Better Future?

Follow Jared:

• https://jaredmoore.org/

• https://jaredmoore.org/the-strength-of-the-illusion

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Kat is an effective altruist who co-founded Nonlinear (incubating artificial intelligence extinction risk non-profits), Charity Entrepreneurship (helping people start new, effective charities), and Charity Science Health (now Suvita - increasing immunisation uptake). She describes her main focus today as trying "to make transformative artificial intelligence go well instead of poorly."

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:56 Kat Intro

• "The biggest thing I care about is preventing suffering risks [#S-risks] the risk of causing astronomical amounts of suffering... We're already in one"

• "We're a super-intelligent species compared to pigs and chickens and it's not going great... the worst thing that has ever happened in history as far as I can tell"

• "Right now we're just racing towards making a species that is much, much more intelligent than us - that hasn't gone well in the past"

• "I really want to make sure that it goes well not just for us - but also for all sentient beings - and also future sentient beings"

• "How we play this in the next while could be the difference between... the best invention that every happened... or we could all die, like everybody, including all the animals... or be stuck in a factory farming thing where there's no escape... like there's no chance for chickens escaping from factory farming"

• Trying to get more people working on this to make sure it goes well

• From #passiveincome #4hourworkweek to #passiveimpact and helping people

• Nonlinear: mentorship, seed funding, helping other people start things

• "Prioritise ideas, make the ideas happen"

06:20 What's Real?

• Growing up on Canadian West Coast

• "Religion just wasn't talked about"

• "The only time I heard about Christianity was in my history class... and english class"

• "When I actually found out that people really did believe these things I was like 'holy shit... maybe I could go to hell... that sounds bad'"

• Delving into Islam, Wiccanism. Christianity "too boring"

• Graduating at 17 & taking a gap year in India & reading Dawkins' "God Delusion"

• "At the beginning I just thought it was clearly bad... I hadn't interacted with anyone who was really religious"

• "It's really easy to demonise somebody that you haven't met"

• Staying with a family in Rwanda "an extremely religious country"... "At first I was worried... I ended up telling everybody... I'm an atheist" but doing humanitarian work, not "eating babies"!

• Epistemology: "I was very hard-core - do RCTs [randomised controlled trials] for everything..."

• Reading a psychology paper on "willpower" every day... "my first ever experience of real science... this is crap"... small effect sizes, exaggerated abstracts...

• "Science is terrible... but it's better than your gut most of the time... the only way we see that is because we have ways to evaluate"

• "My confidence interval around what is true got wider and wider... more and more uncertain"

• Experiencing epistemic angst "I can't know anything... nobody knows anything... I'm just going to go be a hippy in the woods, make some art, do some drugs... but I just kept caring about stuff that was happening in the world... I just have to keep going"

• Astrophysicist Katie Mack episode

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Alexandra is an actress, activist and health coach. She has appeared in more than 100 feature films and television programs starring alongside actors including Tom Hanks, Pamela Anderson, Pierce Brosnan, Kevin Costner and Dan Ackroyd. She is internationally recognized for her 5-year starring role in the tv series Baywatch.

Alexandra has been a lifelong and often award-winning (and arrested!) activist, spanning causes including animal liberation, environmentalism, human population, peace, voting rights and LGBTQ rights. She competes in long distance swimming and Ironman races, including the World Ironman Championship in Hawaii.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Clips & Welcome

• Crystal Heath episode (thanks for the intro!)

02:30 Alexandra's Intro

• Acting, #baywatch , marriage, activism

• "I am an actress by trade but I feel like I'm an activist - that's the thing that feeds my soul... gives me purpose & meaning"

• Human population, animals

• Moving to Oregon

• YesOnIP13 ballot initiative & David Michelson episode

04:55 What's Real?

• Growing up in a Christian #protestant household. Church every sunday.

• Boarding school with church every morning

• "It drives me crazy when our President swears on the Bible because I thought there was separation of church & state..."

• Confirmed into the church at 12 yrs old "When in doubt do what Jesus would do - the kindest thing"

• Midnight mass at 17 yrs old "A pastor said 'we're all born with sin'... I just thought 'that's not true'... that was pretty much the end of me and religion"

• "I also felt that religion didn't deal with the things that needed to be done on earth - like the environment"

• "So I never went back to church after that"

• "The tenet about Jesus doing the kindest thing has evolved into Ingrid Newkirk's... 'be kind, be kind, be kind'" Ingrid episode

• "I personally don't have a god"

• "I've got a lot of work to do on earth... I'm not even going to deal with religion because it's just a waste of time.. I need to fix things on earth... I don't consider myself a spiritual person."

• Visiting the Vatican "horrified at the riches in that place"

• "Also the anthropocentric view of the bible - that humans are the centre and we have dominion over everything else... and very male-dominated"

• Protesting the Iraq war & being arrested with the Catholic Workers "They put into practice what is talked about in the Bible about loving your fellow man"

• The meaning, solace & community some get from religion and how activism can provide the same

• "I will not join a religion because of the exclusiveness & the hierarchy... and humans are at the centre"

• "I don't believe that people are born bad... circumstances can twist them... humans get damaged"

• Moralluck , blame and retribution. #Sentientistjustice https://sentientism.info/sentientism-in-action/sentientist-justice

• "How good a person would I be" if I'd been born in different (tougher) circumstances

• "I worried that my character was weak... I think that's one of the reasons I've become an activist... I remember being afraid that I was a bad person underneath."

30:21 What Matters?

34:25 Who Matters?

54:37 A Better Future

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross-post of my conversation about Sentientism with Josh Milburn on his Knowing Animals podcast, founded by the late and much loved Siobhan O'Sullivan, as part of their Protecting Animals series.

Make sure you subscribe to Knowing Animals wherever you listen. Of course Josh has also been my guest on Sentientism back in episode 50. You can find it here on the Sentientism YouTube (don't forget to subscribe and click the bell!) and here on the Sentientism Podcast.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what (and who) matters?”

The Sentientism worldview answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at ⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Delci is an animal protection lawyer, scholar, teacher and programme builder. She is an associate professor of law and Director & Founder of the Animal Law and Policy Institute at Vermont Law and Graduate School. The Institute is committed to training animal advocacy leaders (e.g. masters degrees and programmes, Farmed Animal Advocacy Clinic) and serving as a resource hub.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Elan Abrell episode

02:30 Delci's Intro

• A non-traditional path, straddling academic & activism

• Pragmatic idealism "I was there to help animals"

05:38 What's Real?

• "My mom grew up in a fundamentalist, fear-based #cult"

• "She really didn't want us to experience that - so we didn't go to church at all"

• Mom still had strong religious beliefs "but she didn't force them on us", #agnostic dad

• "I grew up... naturalistic and being critically minded and making decisions based on what I observed in the world"

• "I probably have disappointed my mum in that I'm an #atheist"

• "I was just born argumentative... always pushing back and asking questions"

• Hearing about the trauma of family because of the cult "it gave me a critical lens on religion... what is the agenda here? Who is this serving?"

• "I've always had a really strong moral compass... why would someone in a position of authority create terror and suffering in children?... an early anti-authoritarian"

• "I do have a tremendous respect for evolution... for systems that have evolved over millennia"

• meditation & secular #buddhism "There is a whole lot we don't know"

12:19 What Matters?

• "For as long as I can remember have had a very strong moral compass that is not based on any external... religious document... fear of punishment..."

• "Just a deep sense of #justice in my core... and as sense of needing to speak up about that"

• Shyness, social anxiety "but there are times when something just bubbles up in me and I need to speak out... do something about it"

• Featuring in #OphrahWinfrey 's "O" magazine as "The Crusader"

• "I have this very strong conviction of what's right and wrong"

• "Fairness... not causing unnecessary suffering"

• Being pragmatic, so considering specific situations but "informed by an overlay"

• Authoritarianism, harming others for profit, lacking transparency

16:29 Who Matters?

• A traumatic experience at 14 yrs. Raising two pigs from birth as companions then "they were unexpectedly slaughtered"

• "I loved animals before then... but that really set me on a journey... I just started reading about factory farming, animal rights... Peter Singer's Animal Liberation"

• Ep: 156 with Peter Singer

• "It resonated with me very much that sentience mattered... that has been a fundamental touch-point for me... I've added complications to it over the years"

• Precautionary principle re: assessing sentience

• "My focus tends to be on individuals & sentience... overlaid with a respect for systems... and interconnectedness"

• "I loved eating meat and didn't really think about the connections to animals"

• "It was a huge wake-up call for me... I felt like I had been living a lie... I had been betrayed... there was all of this awfulness & corruption in the world that I had been totally unaware of"

A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Jo-Anne McArthur is a photojournalist, humane educator, animal rights activist and author. She is known for her We Animals project, a photography project documenting human relationships with animals. Through the We Animals Humane Education program, Jo-Anne offers presentations about human relationships with animals in educational and other environments, and through the We Animals Archive, she provides photographs and other media for those working to help animals. We Animals Media, meanwhile, is a media agency focused on human/animal relationships.

Jo-Anne was the primary subject of the 2013 documentary The Ghosts in Our Machine, directed by Liz Marshall, and with Keri Cronin, she is the founder of the Unbound Project, which aims to celebrate and recognize women animal activists. Her first book, We Animals, was published in 2013; her second, Captive, was published in 2017; and a third, Hidden, which featured a foreword by Joaquin Phoenix, was published in 2020. Jo-Anne has been awarded a range of commendations for her photography and activism, including several commendations in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year awards and joint first place in the COP26 photography competition.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

2:23 Jo's Intro

• Striving to be open, active, helping, empathic, compassionate, humble

• Founding We Animals Media "What was once me with camera is now me & 15 staff & over 100 contributing photographers globally"

• "My own ethos about being generous in the world"

3:57 What's Real?

• catholic background but not very religious family

• "Know the stories, know the moralistic tales... which are largely quite good & translate across many religions... do unto others... take care of one another"

• "I am personally #atheist / #agnostic atheist... I do have a very #spiritual sense of the world... did I just contradict myself? I don't think so."

• "Everything is interconnected... I am from the earth and will go back to the earth."

• "It's a beautiful system this earth has evolved over billions of years... I am in awe of that."

• "If I have a spiritual leaning it's towards reference for the earth"

• "My dad commented... I seemed like an earth worshipper... indigenous ideology? pagan ideology?"

• "I go through the world in awe of what is around me"

• "You protect what you love... I do love the plants... trees, birds in the trees & the old dog I adopted & other people..."

• "Perhaps that reverence has led me to be a full time activist for others"

• "There were no clashes (with supernatural religious beliefs)... it just seemed to me that the scientific experiment is what holds truest to me... how biology works... how the cosmos works... I just gravitated towards that"

• "3 of my 4 parents are very religious now... we don't talk about it very much because we disagree on some major things"

• "They feel that I will go to hell if I don't find Jesus so they pray for me... yet we have a gorgeous, wonderful, close relationship"

• "We disagree on these things but we can still love one another"

• "It was quite a religion free zone at my house. I was free to develop my worldviews."

• "My parents guided me but also took a back seat to the things that were apparently precious to me... protecting others"

14:22 What & Who Matters?

xx A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Varda Mehrotra is an animal advocate and movement builder, exploring intersectional solutions. Most recently, she founded Samayu to undertake intersectional work and apply a systems approach for issues surrounding justice and animals in food systems. Under her decade-long leadership, FIAPO - India’s federation for animal organisations - was recognized as one of the most effective animal charities. She has spearheaded several large-scale undercover investigations, campaigns for farmed animals, companion animals and wild animals and was the architect of India’s largest plant-based advocacy network which has created many animal advocate leaders in the country. Prior to that, she spent several years organising within the grassroots animal advocacy movement in Scotland.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:41 Varda's Intro

• "An activist first"

• Scotland, India, US

• Advocating for farmed, wild, companion animals

• Policy work, mobilisation, vegan advocacy, corporate engagement

• Intersectional thinking "in practice" "a bigger picture approach... correcting the omission of animal interests in the broader discourse around our planetary crisis

• Co-founding Samayu "working with the inter-linkages" https://samayu.org/

3:45 What's Real?

• A Hindu religious upbringing

• "All our holidays were spent in the forest... the value of the natural world... you hold it in wonder"

• Mum researched Buddhist philosophy "a lot of Buddhist concepts mixed in [with traditional Hinduism]"

• As a rebellious teenager "I was a staunch atheist for a while... Now the question of atheism has almost disappeared... ceased to matter"

• "I just didn't see any evidence... there was just no way I could relate to faith on its own... and the dogmatic side of religion... that I still strongly disagree with. I wasn't convinced then and I'm not convinced now."

• "My worldview has shifted - I don't believe in the single or multiple male gods"

• "I just identify as a nothingist"

• "That was one of the many things I was talking about doing differently... at a very young age I said 'I'm not OK doing that' [eating meat]"

• "Exploring modalities... #meditation, #yoga... evidence for a general sense of connection... empathy... acknowledging everything is interconnected"

• "I don't think there is anything 'greater than'... but certainly there is a fundamental interconnection that goes beyond transactional relationships... that grounds me."

• Naturalistic and supernatural versions of #spirituality

• The ethical risks of spiritual, supernatural & religious worldviews (#cults #alternativemedicine harsh punishments, authoritarianism...) "There's a huge difference if they are taking actions from those beliefs or not."

• "Buddhist monasteries are still serving meat and dairy"

• "Any belief system can easily become dogmatic"

• "Spirituality can be equally dark... as organised religion"

21:30 What & Who Matters?

• "Everybody matters... all human and non-human beings matter"

• "Each of us are on our journey to be able to put that into action"

• "Sentience is the scientific basis of including beings in our moral compass"

• "Looking at nature... and including that... within that moral compass"

• "Intrinsic value... Every animal exists with his or her own interests"

33:23 Making a Better World

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Yamini is Senior Lecturer in International and Community Development at Deakin University. Her work makes substantive contributions to the rapidly emergent field of South Asian Animal Studies through a twin focus on animals in political and urban life in India. It addresses species as an explicit identity category in Indian national politics through the intersections of #anthropocentrism, #sectarianism, and #casteism. Her book Mother Cow, Mother India offers one of the first empirical critiques of India’s cow protectionism discourse and politics from a #criticalanimalstudies standpoint. Yamini publishes widely in media on issues related to animal rights, including the Animal Liberation Currents, The Hindu Centre for Politics and Public Policy, Huffington Post and Animal People Forum. She has been interviewed by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, BBC Brazil, and for documentaries on cow protection politics and animal advocacy in India.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

Welcome

Yamini's Intro

• Researching gender-sensitive urban development (e.g. urban transport in New Delhi & risks to women)

• "It was entirely by mistake... a twist of events suddenly led me to the world of animals"

• Animals and urban planning... then animals and nationalistic & identity politics in #india

What's Real?

• Being asked "how do you know?" when researching non-human animals

• "It's also a question we need to reflect on ourselves... how much of projections... biases... are we bringing into our analyses"

• "To do justice to the subjects of the work... we actually got to be very carefully reflective on this question of 'what is real?'"

• Confronting "scenes of really visceral extreme physical violence & suffering"... #dairy farming, animal labour in brick kilns

• Humans with "the flimsiest of protections... virtually none... but in the case of animals they have been completely disregarded as labour subjects at all"

• "For me it has always been the eyes... of an animal... it is impossible to sustain any form of differentiation when we look at the eyes"

• "The eyes are possibly one of the most real aspects of connection between two #sentient beings"

• "When I'm talking to a butcher... or to a self-identified Hindu right-wing cow vigilante who is actually practicing a very #fascist form of politics... when I look into their eyes... it is again difficult for me to cancel or reject them completely... a window of an opportunity of connection... the eyes are a pathway into something real."

• Critical studies: valuing the subjective other "any being with a perspective"

• "In an Indian dairy farm animals are heavily restrained constrained... almost like concentrated animal feeding operations (#CAFO / #Factoryfarm ) of the west"

• "There is very limited avenue for... expressing individual behaviour... and yet they manage..." curiosity / repulsion / impatience "almost tired of futile interventions"

• Subjective and objective value and truths

• The "charge of emotionalism" levied against dairy researchers (vs. rationaity and intellect)... "The separation of the mother and the infant... the visceral suffering that both the infant and the mother experience as a result... when you're seeing it on a farm it is undeniable... how loud and how charged a calf's bleating for its mother can be"

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Nicolas is Associate Professor of Philosophy and Environmental Studies at the New College of Florida. In Fall 2023, he will join the College of Charleston as Assistant Professor of Philosophy.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:55 Nico's Intro

• Philosophy PhD in France (the moral status of animals - a #relational theory)

• PostDoc @nyuanimalstudies2689

• Chicago Uni Law School w/ #MarthaNussbaum

• Asst. Prof @NewCollegeofFL

• Vegan, dad, runner

03:17 What's Real?

• "I'm a pretty strong naturalist"

• A non-religious family - #protestant parents "a minority in France & in Belgium"

• Religion classes in Belgium: Segregated into #Catholic, Protestant & "the others"

• Father's ethos: "Self discipline, a sense of integrity... and he hated the Pope... but he didn't really believe in god... some higher order of things that he was not sure about... an #agnostic more than a #theist "

• No particular revelation, but didn't believe in god after 12-13 yrs old

• "A strong distrust of religious authorities"

• Studying philosophy, drawn to #spinoza and #nietzsche

• "#nietzsche has really stuck with me"

• As a pre-teen "I remember thinking... nasty things about god then feeling very guilty..."

• "The world just made more sense for me without a supernatural entity that would be its creator & legislator"

• There's so much we don't understand... because of a strong commitment to epistemic humility... I'm not in the habit of ruling out a priori the existence of things that we think don't fit the current worldview. That being said... I don't believe in a god... supernatural entities... ghosts."

• Meditation & #psychedelics "I think there is such a thing as mystical experiences but... don't reveal really anything that is possibly hidden from a broadly naturalistic understanding of the world"

• "The naturalistic framework makes you enquire about the world... in constant revision"

11:15 What Matters?

• "Anti-realist on many issues... I'm not a moral realist"

• "I don't think there are real mind-independent facts about morality"

• "A Protestant integrity"

• "I grew up with #punkrock... gave rise to some of my commitments with respect to #animalrights "

• Talking about #anarchism with dad: "I disagree with them politically... but some of the most moral people I've ever met are anarchists"

• "Whether or not you believe in god... you can still have a commitment to right & wrong"

• "What I think I took from punk rock & in part from Nietzsche... is that people come up with their own values... and have to get along somehow."

• "There's room for moral talk - I wouldn't be an ethicist otherwise"

• If anything is going to be right or wrong... it's going to be... the result of some form of constructive/deliberative/expressive process"

• "Of course I was tempted by #nihilism" & #relativism

• Having a "robust commitment to justice" while rejecting hierarchy/authority is arguably more moral? (why dad respected anarchists)

• "Nihilism was the big worry for Nietzsche at the end of the 19th Century"

• "Some values are worth promoting but we have to think about which values... but they don't have a bedrock that's independent"

• Even without moral realism we have "tools to criticise other communities' moralities"

• Descriptive vs. normative assessments

29:53 Who Matters?

1:15:11 Making a Better World?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Walter is an inter-disciplinary philosopher. He works primarily on the Philosophy of Cognitive and Biological Sciences, the Philosophy of Mind, Applied Ethics and particularly in the intersections of those fields. Much of his recent work has focused on animal minds, welfare, and ethics, as well as evolution. His new book ‘A Philosophy for the Science of Animal Consciousness‘ integrates this research into a coherent whole. It is being launched today (16th June) with Routledge.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Taster clips!

01:02 Welcome

02:22 Book Launch: A Philosophy for the Science of Animal Consciousness

03:40 Walter's Intro

• Peter Godfrey-Smith & Paul Griffiths

• Heather Browning

• "An evolutionary, non-anthropocentric approach"

• "A lot of the denial of pain [e.g. fish, crustaceans, octopuses] has rested on a very #anthropocentric position"

• Some animals have different eyes vs. humans but that doesn't mean they can't see. The same applies re: the architectures underpinning consciousness

• "what animal lives are like... what kinds of subjective experiences would be useful for them to have from a #Darwinian perspective"

• Studying consciousness "as a natural phenomenon... rather than... as a human phenomenon"

• Did human social contexts (barter, trade, co-operation, agreements) lead to us having more abstract cognitive facilities?

• Modern discoveries re: advanced cognitive and social capabilities in non-human animals (e.g. corvids, octopuses)

10:53 A Darwinian Perspective

• Daniel Dennett "Complexity matters - but what kind of compexity"

• IIT & HigherOrderTheory

• Brain hemispheres operating more independently. Two separate streams of experience?

• Theories of consciousness that are untestable or fail to make predictions

• Panpsychism, illusionism

• "The Darwinian bottleneck"

• "Philosophers very rarely ask the question 'where does the mind come from?'"

• "In order to understand how it works we'll need to understand why it evolved"

• "We can only understand what consciousness is by understanding how it evolved"

• Evolution & development processes

• Epiphenomena

• Marian Dawkins

• "This attitude that anything goes in the literature... it doesn't seem like we're making any progress... we're just creating new outlandish views without having any means of trying to filter them out... like panpsychism"

• JW: "It's very common for people to say 'we know nothing about consciousness' which I find a bizarre statement"

• "We've made so much scientific progress"

• "There are some mental properties that are unique to humans but it's very unclear those are the ones that matter for moral purposes"

20:31 The Origins of Sentience & Consciousness

• "It is adaptationist... very complex phenomena don't just appear out of nowhere... They almost always have a functional role. They're not just spandrels..."

• "Consciousness is just far to complex and evolutionarily fine tuned for that to happen"

• "In our own experience we can see how well it helps us... even if it sometimes can misfire"

• The mistaken view that consciousness must be sharp-edged & binary, on or off

• "If you can't explain how it can gradually come into existence you must believe that it has always been there" #panpsychism

• Wanting to apply crisp well bounded concepts (baldness, life, health, consciousness) to a messy reality

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Anita is Executive Director of the Plant Based Treaty initiative and the Animal Save Movement, a worldwide network of Save groups bearing witness to farmed animals & promoting veganism & love-based, grassroots activism. She describes herself as an animal rights and an environmental activist. She is the co-author of the book "The Secret Lives of Pigs".

Nicola is Director of Communications for the Plant Based Treaty initiative and works on the Animal Save Movement's communications team. She has over 20 years of experience in pressure campaigning in the UK.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

02:22 What's Real?

• NH:

• Raised #atheist with strong values & morals "be open-minded & critical & follow my heart & dreams... encouraged to find my own way." "My journey to #veganism has led me to question everything."

• Being told a cow is "beef"... "I was horrified". "You'll have to eat it or you'll die... we only eat the animals when they die of old age... no harm done."

• Becoming #vegetarian then #vegan... breaking the brainwashing

• Punk, #hardcore & DIY "You can't go to a punk gig without coming hope with some pamphlets." Moby's Punk Rock Vegan Movie

• Paganism & earth based religions

• Grounded in own experiences (e.g. taking people on excursions to chicken farms & bearing witness)

AK:

• Dogmatic #Catholic household "my journey was always trying to rebell against that... it didn't seem very authentic... the same performance every week... I didn't find it interesting or convincing"

• Parents from the former Yugoslavia

• Seeing "The Animals Film"

• Discovering #CarlSagan and #Cosmos "that rang true with me"

• Rejecting the sexism / discrimination often found in #christianity

• "We had very different worldviews from my parents"

• "I sort of like to think that animals have souls" #leotolstoy 's "Calendar of Wisdom"

• "Treat others as you'd like to be treated... we all know it applies to animals... also love thy neighbour... they're universal principles... if there's life on another planet... they apply"

• "I don't believe in the dogma of religion... or miracles... but there's something very special about life"

19:26 What & Who Matters?

AK:

• Regan Russell's Anglican upbringing

• "It wasn't difficult to move away from the [Catholic] world that I was living in"

• Peace & conflict studies, environmentalism, animal ethics at university

• "I was human centric... it didn't even occur to me to think about other animals"

• "When I saw the [Animals] film... it completely changed my world-view... it became a core value for me"

• feminism & animal agriculture

• Studying environmental thought: "Does a tree have standing, does the Grand Canyon matter?... it opened my world"

• Going beyond sentience. Protecting trees for their own sake "Nature is incredible - it's such a gift... trees and this forest have rights in and of themselves - they're not just a utility to us or animals or sentients"

• "Sentience is absolutely important"

NH:

• A human-centred upbringing but "my mum used to take me over to the animal rights stalls... sign the petitions against fox-hunting & fur..."

• Family time in nature

• "The Hidden Life of Trees" - "It's blown my mind... they work as a community... you want to protect them"

• "I do absolutely extend my moral scope to the environment around us - we are all connected"

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Peter Singer is often referred to as the “world’s most influential living philosopher.” He is the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University. He specialises in applied ethics, approaching the subject from a secular, naturalistic, utilitarian perspective. He wrote the books "Animal Liberation", Why Vegan? and "Animal Liberation Now!" (launched on the same day as this episode! - speaking tour here), in which he argues against speciesism and for a shift to plant-based food systems and veganism. He also wrote the essay "Famine, Affluence, and Morality" and the books "The Life You Can Save" & "The Most Good You Can Do" which argue for effective altruism - using evidence & reasoning to do the most good we can for all sentient beings both human and not. In 2004 Peter was recognised as the Australian Humanist of the Year by the Council of Australian Humanist Societies. In 2005, the Sydney Morning Herald placed him among Australia's ten most influential public intellectuals. Singer is a cofounder of Animals Australia & the founder of The Life You Can Save.In 2021 he received the Berggruen Prize for Philosophy and Culture. Peter donated the $1 million prize money to the most effective organizations working to assist people in extreme poverty and to reduce the suffering of animals in factory farms.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Animal Liberation Now! - why now?

• Sentientism's links to ancient naturalistic, sentiocentric themes of thought & Peter's work

• Sentientism's 1) naturalism, 2) sentiocentrism & ethical pluralism, 3) implications of not needlessly harming or killing

• "What needlessly killing amounts to... is a question... that could have a lot of discussion"

• "In terms of what really matters in itself I agree that Sentientism is the right view"

• The challenges of the words speciesism & sentientism - too many syllables!

• Peter's entry on our "I'm a Sentientist" wall

06:12 What's Real?

• Non-religious Jewish parents "they came to Australia as refugees from the Nazis, leaving Austria"

• Mother "a fervent agnostic... there isn't reason to believe in a god or a supernatural being or life after death"

• "In some parts of the United States it's almost necessary to belong to a religion to have a community"

• Rabbi cousin in Mobile, Alabama "When I say god I mean whatever it is in the universe that is a force for good... (e.g. some human beings)"

• "I kind of thought of them as fairy stories"

• Childhood meeting with Catholic kids "don't ask him any more questions - he'll only blacken his soul & go to hell... I wasn't in the least frightened"

• Negative aspects of religions: Religious wars & "very often a conservative force against what I see as progressive reforms"

• "If there were no religious teachings against #abortion I don't think the US would be divided over the issue"

• Why religious organisations get social licence to continue #sexism , #homophobia , #transphobia

• "[Religious] teachings about sex which have been a very negative influence... making people feel guilty"

• Previous guest Lisa Kemmerer

26:25 What Matters?

38:58 Who Matters?

01:10:05 How Can We Make A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Michael is head of philosophy at the University of Liverpool. His current work spans transhumanism, death & meaning. He has written a vast range of topics, including on whether non-human animals can have meaningful lives & "What It Is Like to Be a Bot". He says of his work: "As a philosopher, I am a generalist, which is a nice way of saying that I have done many different things & I am not really an expert on anything in particular."

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:42 Michael's Intro

• What it means to be human, to live a good life, a meaningful life

• Transhumanism & human enhancement

• Meaning & life & death

• When dealing with foundational, broad questions: "It is very difficult to be precise... I hardly ever feel that 'now I've got it'"

06:06 What's Real?

• "It's much easier to point at something & disuss whether that is real"

• "If you can name something then in some sense it must be real"

• Raised #Christian & sent to Sunday school & Bible classes & regular confessions to the village priest

• "I sort of believed there was a god when I was little"

• A god watching me "a means of controlling me... Big Brother in heaven... it was just oppressive... a punishing god, a critical god"

• "I didn't feel the presence... I just believed that there was something because I was told there was something"

• "Very quickly I dropped my religious beliefs... as soon as I started to think for myself I became an #atheist"

• "It just faded away... it was always superficial"

• "Some people take me for a Christian because I share some of the intuitions religious believers have"

• "I'm not entirely comfortable with calling myself a naturalist although I don't believe in anything supernatural"

• "Naturalism is also very programmatic & ideological"

• "There are a lot of things in this world that we cannot understand...& some naturalists are very confident that we can understand everything & that's there's no mystery... there is a lot of mystery."

• Max More's #transhumanism ... pits science vs. religion

• Origins of the universe & life & consciousness "we don't know!" Science might figure it out - it might not

• "... whatever there is is part of nature"

• Over-confidence vs. humility

• The subjective & the objective

• Plato & Parmenides: "being is more real than becoming"... "but we live in a world of becoming... how can that be less real?"

• The "normative use of reality"... to "declare something else as not real... a term to deny something else its reality"

• The denial of animal suffering "not so common any more" & the #cartesian model

• "If you see an animal in pain you know it is in pain... it takes a lot of willful blindness not to acknowledge..."- "One of the reasons... why animals could not possibly feel any pain... because it would then be far too horrible how we treat animals... god wouldn't allow it!"

• "If we assume the world is good & we see all the apparent suffering... then it cannot be... A moral reason behind denying the suffering of animals"

• JW "An echo of a religious mode of thought that's then re-built in a humanist mode of thought"

• "If we have evolved naturally... there's no reason to assume our brains are capable of understanding the universe... what possible use can it have?"

• "A naturalistic perspective should actually teach us humility"

29:03 What Matters?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Elan is a cultural anthropologist focusing on human-animal interactions, environmental justice, and food politics. He is assistant professor of the practice in environmental studies and coordinator of the animal studies minor at Wesleyan University. He is the author of the Gregory Bateson Prize winning book: "Saving Animals: Multispecies Ecologies of Rescue and Care". He also contributed a chapter called "The Empty Promises of Cultured Meat" to the book "The Good it Promises, the Harm It Does: Critical Essays on Effective Altruism".

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:25 Elan's Intro

• Cultural anthropology and teaching animal studies "my favourite thing to teach!"

• Appearing on Knowing Animals & Our Hen House

• Working with Kathryn Gillespie

02:42 What's Real?

• Raised mostly #secular

• Dad believed in #reincarnation

• At 12yrs old becoming aware of major religions & thinking "probably none of them are right"

• "Materialist with a small 'm', empiricist with a small 'e'"

• "Probably when we die, we die... that just makes our lives more poignant & important"

• Being given a bible stories book by a #jehovahswitness "this god person is really cruel... like a villain"

• "Reassuring in a humbling kind of way... I'm a tiny part of this vast universe... we're no less important for that"

• "Mildly #agnostic... I know that I don't know"

• Not spiritual but "a certain sense of wonder"

• An #ayahuasca retreat. Most others talked of "spiritual" experiences. "I felt pretty in touch with the particles of the universe... I don't have any anthropomorphic encounters to explain I just felt deeply in touch with creation and appreciative that I'm a part of it... that went down like a lead balloon."

• Ego dissolution... "the seed of #sentience ... that I share... with other animals"

17:00 What Matters?

• comics : "#spiderman was my favourite super-hero... with great power comes great responsibility" (vs. #judgedredd and "law and order" :) )

• "We have an obligation to help each other when we can"

• Fairness: "Some people's extra benefit isn't really worth anybody else's suffering"

• "I don't have a #utilitarianism perspective of maximising pleasure... but for each individual who experiences the world they deserve to have minimal suffering & maximal enjoyment of life"

• Understanding bad actions that may be a response to trauma or desperation - not bad ethics

• "An openness to understanding what might be motivating people even in conflicts"

• Neil Levy: "Why bad beliefs happen to good people"

• Peter Singer

• Ethical pluralism: #care/#virtue/#deontological/relational ethics as long as all sentient beings get to count "that's exactly right"

• elonmusk & the ethics of self-driving cars "it's deeply flawed if you can take individual lives & throw them away without their consent because you think it will actually benefit more people in the long run"

• consequentialism

• Risks of utilitarianism: aggregating, offsetting, replacement, maximisation, ends justifying means, epistemic / ethical uncertainty & risk

26:21 Who Matters?

• Beyond #anthropocentrism

• Growing up "having relationships with members of other species"

49:43 How To Make a Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Ashley is Director of Outreach for PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals). She has led a broad range of PETA’s campaigns and has been interviewed about her work to promote animal rights by the LA Times, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal and in many other publications.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:33 Ashley Intro

• 16 years at #PETA: public campaigns, celebrities... "enjoying every minute of it"

03:18 What Matters

• ChristianScience "there was never a divide... this is science & this is god... a lot of spirituality"

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science (see risks re: prayer vs. medicine)

• Father "a non-practising Catholic... not a religious person but was very supportive of... that part of my mother's life"

• Personal relationship with god "connect directly with this spiritual part of your life"

• More a spiritual, all-pervasive god than a "judgemental, human figure"

• Rejecting "we judge everything based on a human worldview"

• Universally accessible rather than in/out-group based

• "Not telling you what to do"

• Religious vs. scientific views of reality "It never occurred to me that those things could be incompatible"

• Spiritual rather than literal interpretation of the #bible

• "#spiritually I really still do identify with these ideas & these values"

• "Macro spiritual concepts of love... that bring us out of what's right in front of us"

• "Isn't so much of science trying to go bigger & deeper"

• Science that we don't yet understand that can sometimes be anticipated by mystical/spiritual thinking

• Ontological (what's real?) & epistemological (how should we work it out?) naturalism

• Risks of wishful thinking

• faith vs. #naturalism "I'm the latter... the evidence"

• Is there evidence that would lead you to reject Christian Science? "it's more of a spiritual practice"

• "#spirituality ... it is a scientific pursuit... our ideas of science are too limited"

• Risks of dogma / harmful & discriminatory ethics in religious/supernatural worldviews

• "If you have an ethical question about the world you should be going back & working it out with these spiritual tools"

• Growing up in #losangeles

• One 8th grade term in a Southern #Baptist school "pamphlets in the office that told you why every other religion in the world was wrong & sinful - mine was in there"

• "You're going to hell!"

• "I was constantly being told 'be quiet, sit down, stop asking questions'... I remember the word 'obey' was used a lot"... "I didn't get it... why can't you answer these questions?"

• The #trauma caused by religious beliefs (e.g. threat of hell)

• Secularism & kids learning about multilple worldviews

41:08 What Matters?

• "My parents really laid the foundation... for my sense of ethics... each coming from their own respective backgrounds... two extremely ethical, thoughtful, kind, intelligent people."

• You don't need an old book to be a good person... universal goods

• "Goodness is something more primal than that [#divinecommandtheory]"

45:30 Who Matters?

• "I grew up in an animal loving household... unquestionably family members"

• The family dog: "She loved me and I loved her"

• "There was never any idea that these weren't individuals"

01:16:33 How Can We Make A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross post of my conversation with Nick Pendergrast⁠⁠ and Adam Cardilini on their 3CR Freedom ofSpecies podcast about conspiracism, misinformation and disinformation in the vegan and animal advocacy movements and how to communicate effectively with those caught up in them. Of course, we also talk about Sentientism⁠⁠'s commitment to naturalistic epistemology via "evidence and reason".

You can subscribe to 3CR's ⁠⁠Freedom of Species wherever you listen. ⁠3CR is a community radio station based in Melbourne⁠⁠, Australia. Nick, Adam and the other co-hosts have a fascinating range of guests, conversations and also music with a message.

Both Adam and Nick have been guests on Sentientism too - have a listen to episode 106 and ⁠episode 88⁠⁠ if you'd like to hear their thoughts about what's real, who matters and how can we make a better world. You might also want to check episode 55 with Christopher Sebastian and episode 92 with Lee McIntyre as we discuss their research and writing here. Here is Christopher's Euronews piece about "What do veganism and conspiracy theories have in common?"

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠Sentientism.info⁠. Join our ⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠ via ⁠this simple form⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠here on FaceBook⁠. Come join us there!

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Jay Shapiro is an award winning filmmaker, writer, & podcaster. He directed the film Islam & the Future of Tolerance, based around a post 9/11 conversation between Sam Harris & Maajid Nawaz. He produces and creates a wide range of content, writes on his "What Jay Thinks" blog & hosts the Dilemma podcast - I had the pleasure of being his guest for a Dilemma hangout about Sentientism back in 2020. He loves thoughtful deep dives into philosophy, psychology, & political analysis.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:54 Jay Intro

• The Essential #samharris series

• Documentary & narrative film-making

• "I really want to understand ideas... and transmit those to an audience... even if I totally disagree with the idea"

03:16 What's Real?

• Growing up in a secular #Jewish household

• "Post-holocaust American judaism is it's own brand... a very ethical & political tribe more than a religious one"

• "Never again becomes the holiest prayer"

• Psychologist dad, guidance counsellor mum

• "I'm a boring naturalist but... I love analogies for what it feels like to exist"

• Kurt Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse-Five "Oh... This is what I like"

• An over-active imagination as a kid... "my scientists", The Truman Show, solipsism, Philip K Dick & #scifi

• Meditation, #psychedelics, religious experiences... "scrambles the dials"

• Donald Hoffman's "The Case Against Reality"

• How evolution shapes our construction of experiences of reality

• Psychedelics help us "catch it in the act" of reality construction

• "There's much more out there" e.g. non-human sentient experiences

• "It reminds you of the expansiveness of reality rather than show you a new one"

• The National High School Ethics Bowl

• Anil Seth's "How your brain hallucinates reality" @TED

• Annika Harris's exploration of consciousness theories re: "The Hard Question"

• "Reality is awesome enough - who needs magic" (I mis-spoke!)

• Epistemological tests?: atheism, veganism, spherical earth...

• Writing about Sam Harris, not for him

• Object-oriented ontology

• psychology "I don't think we're the rational animal... we're the rationalising animal"

• How people respond to #cognitivedissonance (Leon Festinger) "they really don't like it"

• Criticising #consequentialism "you can justify anything... wait long enough and the consequences will work out... where do you stop the clock... too easy to find an out"

• Virtueethics "Secular virtue" (vs. religious views of virtue)

• What happens after noticing the cognitive dissonance. More about psychology & values more than epistemology?

• Coping mechanisms. Consequentialism, capitalism, economics... give people outs to "quiet these voices in their heads"

• Neil Levy "people are more rational than you think" https://youtu.be/Tp40ga1cXEc

• Qanon, Goop products... everyone selects evidence/sources to suit themselves

• Believing unfounded things can be a "rational" response to existential crises / the discomfort of cognitive dissonance

37:45 What Matters?

• "There is no grounding (to ethics)"

• David Hume's "unbreachable" is-ought chasm

• "If you hate Sam (Harris) I think you'll like a lot of what I do there" (the Foundations of Morality episode of The Essential Sam Harris

• There is a relationship between is and ought but "It's up to us to define that relationship"

58:50 Who Matters?

01:50:49 How Can We Make A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠. Come join us there!

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Dhruv is a PhD student at the Department of Computer Science and Technology, University of Cambridge. He has interests in psychology, philosophy and animal advocacy.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠here on YouTube⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:33 Dhruv Intro

02:25 What's Real?

• Born in India, moving to Scotland "A mix of two cultures"

• Hindu temple at home, outside was "classic western materialism, science..."

• @OfficialDerrenBrown 's "Tricks of the Mind". Magic, charlatanism, #homeopathy , #religion, #GMO scepticism (e.g. Golden Rice)

• Reading Michael Shermer's "Why People Believe Weird Things" at 12 yrs old

• Finding school academically easy but socially hard "immigrant children willl know... feeling like half and half and the halves don't really mix"

• Culturally universal values: "There was this value of transcendence that was just missing... it would be really nice if god was real... I switched back and forth"

• Celebrating #diwali when visiting India "I could see the appeal... but I couldn't see any reason or logic"

• "It's not like the western materialists have any really great answers on how to live..."

• Experiencing clinical #depression at Cambridge University

• Discovering #stoicism & #nietzsche "a very positive nihilism"

• The @philosophizethispodcast and @theschooloflifetv "self-directed, exploratory learning"

• Existentialism "I couldn't really follow the continental philosophers". Camus' "The Plague" made more sense during #covid19

• A personal situation "which just did not seem amenable to being logiced out of"

• A talk by @akalamusic

• Going back to Indian religion & philosophy "there might be something here"

• Reading the #mahabharata to understand the context for the #bhagavadgita

• arjuna , #krishna roles & responsibilities "why should I act if the fruits of my acts are not my own?"

• Encountering #buddhism Graham Priest's "Paraconsistent logics" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Priest

• 2 weeks at a Buddhist monastery in Scotland "everyone had their own story... so much suffering... worse than mine"

• Values of patience, generosity, loving

• Practising #meditation & #mindfulness

• "Let me just try things that seem to work"

• The wisdom of hunter-gatherer cultures

• Not dismissing or reifying any culture

• "I accidentally moved to New Zealand"

• Going #vegan (after growing up #vegetarian ) mainly for environmental reasons

• Trying vegan pizza "this is fine"

• @SimonAmstellNumb 's #Carnage documentary https://youtu.be/6dXG0_yr7HE

• @ed.winters Watching #EarthlingEd

• Ethical & epistemological journeys developing in parallel

• Meeting an activist community

• Reading Peter Singer's "The Life You Can Save" and #effectivealtruism

• Sam Harris' "Waking Up"

• Identity & Derek Parfit

• Physicist Carlo Rovelli's "The Order of Time" & intepretations of quantum physics

• "I have 4 extremely diverse points of view pointing to this very strange thing about notions of identity... the Buddha takes things one step further... his is one of the reasons you're upset"

• "Being troubled by open metaphysical questions is not because you don't have an answer... it's because you expect the answer"

• A local #yoga group

• "I stopped being bothered by these big existential questions"

• Exploring from the outside & the inside (e.g. via meditation)

• Cravings & suffering

Also what matters, who matters, how we can make a better future...

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠Sentientism.info⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠Sentientism.info⁠. Join our ⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠ via ⁠this simple form⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠here on FaceBook⁠. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross-post of my conversation about "Why is it so hard to talk about meat?", and of course Sentientism, with Jenny Splitter for her FutureFeed substack - make sure you go and subscribe! Jenny is managing Editor for Sentient Media. She is an award-winning journalist and contributor to outlets like Vox, Everyday Health, Popular Mechanics, The Guardian and others. She’s one of the founding members of, and a contributor to SciMoms. I was also lucky to have Jenny as my guest on Sentientism episode 64.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what (and who) matters?”

Sentientism answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at ⁠Sentientism.info⁠. Join our ⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠ via ⁠this simple form⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠here on FaceBook⁠. Come join us there!

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Andrew is Professor of Animal Welfare & Ethics & Founding Director of the University of Winchester Centre for Animal Welfare. He also holds many other academic and veterinary positions.

Ever since helping launch Australia’s campaign against the live sheep trade to the Middle East in the early 1990s, he has advocated on behalf of animals. For nearly a decade prior to 2012 he practiced veterinary medicine, mostly around London. In 2013 – 2014 he directed the Clinical Skills Laboratory and taught animal ethics, welfare, veterinary practice management and surgical and medical skills at one of the world’s largest veterinary schools in the Caribbean.

Andrew's books include The Routledge Handbook of Animal Welfare (2023) and The Costs and Benefits of Animal Experiments (2011). He has published widely for both public and academic audiences including papers in New Scientist, the British Medical Journal USA and PLoS One. Andrew has been honoured with 14 awards for his research, his advocacy and for his teaching.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:33 Andrew's Intro

03:57 What's Real?

• Questioning his life after being unlucky in love

• Following the tradition of "gurus going to mountain tops"... hiking up a mountain & fasting

• A beautiful mountain view at dawn... "Please god - if there's anything out there - let me know now!"

• "The sun came up... I got my answer clear as day... there was absolutely nothing... I had to go back down the mountain... carry on and do the best I could... without any advice or clues from above... that's been my guiding inspiration since... what are we going to do with this opportunity?..."

• "I was very pleased because I could finally eat some food" :)

• Australia's secularism

• Veterinary education focused on science & evidence.

11:11 What Matters?

• "Try to do the most good you can and the least harm that you can."... without letting that turn you into a grim and uninspiring person

• Enjoying your life & not burning out (tough for caring professions & activists)

• "Don't forget to look after ourselves"

• "That's why it's [doing good, avoiding harm] such a good baseline principle... It's a simple clear message... something we can all aspire to"

15:32 Who Matters?

• Helping with the @RedCross soup patrol, @AmnestyInternational and banning land-mines

• Realising how many more non-human animals were suffering & dying in animal agriculture

29:46 How Can We Make a Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Katherine is chief of Science Advancement and Outreach (SAO) at PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals). SAO aims to change the paradigm of biomedical research by promoting the development & implementation of cutting-edge strategies in biomedical research & training & eliminating the use of animals in experimentation. Katherine earned her bachelor’s degrees in biology psychology from Syracuse University and her Ph.D. in experimental psychology and cognitive science from the University of California–San Diego. After completing a postdoctoral fellowship at Johns Hopkins University, she went on to become a research fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health, where she stayed for eight years. Over the course of her research career, she studied the neural correlates of linguistic, spatial, & memory processes, working with children with early focal brain injury, adults & children with schizophrenia, and individuals with Williams syndrome and related genetic disorders. Katherine has more than 20 years of experience conducting brain and neuroimaging research with humans and is an expert at experimental design and data analysis. She has been published in numerous peer-reviewed journals and has presented her findings at national and international industry conferences.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:29 Katherine's Intro - from neuroscience and the NIH to PETA

• "About half of biomedical research... involves very invasive procedures with animals"

• "It became clear to me that that assumption... that the harms we were doing were justifiable... fell apart... the harms were much greater than I realised but also... there's a lot of species differences that make data from these labs difficult to translate into benefits for humans."

• "Then the question becomes... well what are we doing?"

• "Trying to make sure people realise how sentient these animals really are... they have their own needs & wants & desires"

• Previous episodes with Ingrid Newkirk https://youtu.be/M7Ac2Ba2jbM & Aysha Akhtar https://youtu.be/EZ_gh0ldzpo

04:55 What's Real?

• "Religious but not deeply religious" parents - Anglican, episcopalian Christians

• "It never really took"

• Not needing external reasons for "wanting to cause as little harm as possible and to live in harmony with the world around us"

• Learning about animals through science "started to change the way I viewed them"

24:54 What & Who Matters?

46:49 How Can We Make a Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Ziya is a television presenter, producer, author and board member. She was the co-host of Discovery Channel’s long-running primetime science magazine, Daily Planet. In 2019 she wrote the book “The Reality Bubble“. Ziya serves on the boards of a range of NGOs and charities, including PEN Canada, We Animals Media and WWF International.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:46 Ziya's Intro

• Science broadcasting @discoverycanada

• Author of "The Reality Bubble" exposing human blind-spots

• NGO board roles including @WeAnimalsMedia (animal photojournalism led by Jo-Anne McArthur)

• Tweeting about earthlings: https://twitter.com/ziyatong

03:32: What's Real?

• "Being a bi-racial person gives you a sort of split view... Chinese... Eastern European"

• Communism & capitalism, eastern & western

• "I never really... took one true dogmatic reality"

• "I consistently shed layers of what I previously thought of as reality"

• Yoda: "You must unlearn what you have learned"

• A science journalist career "naturalistic in one sense"

• "With science you can reveal a lot... the whole book [The Reality Bubble] is about that... but it always puts a lens between you and the subject"

• Black holes & mites on our eyelashes

• "The humanities are much more subjective"

• Polymaths spanning humanities & the sciences "that blend is what's interesting to me"

• "Indigenous perspectives... have so much to share with us about how we perceive reality"

• Swimming sea wolves in British Columbia "new to science - but indigenous peoples had known about these wolves for their entire histories"

• The Consilience Model: Science and indigenous perspectives "Two eyed seeing"

• Plant medicines like #ayahuasca "which open up an entirely new door to reality"

• "I don't believe reality stands on firm ground... I'm happy to run around the ice flow as it shifts... reality should never be solid"

• Science & indigenous perspectives "are both based on observation"

• "To a neutrino this mug wouldn't be here at all"

• "We have to question our every-day common sense notions of reality"

• Humilty & error-correction

• Risks of dogma within science "we looked at animals as if they were machines"

• Brought up Roman #catholic , dabbled with #buddhism / #sufiism

• Rumi: "There's a hundred ways to kiss the ground"

• Vipassna #meditation - a 10 day silent retreat "you are really guided by yourself"

• Feeding ants & saving an ant "I promised not to kill anything" as part of the 10 Buddhist precepts

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Michael is a law professor and scholar of U.S. constitutional law. He is the Robert S. Stevens Professor of Law at Cornell Law School. In addition to constitutional law, Michael has taught courses in civil procedure and federal courts. He has written/co-written/edited six books, including Beating Hearts: Abortion and Animal Rights (co-written with his wife, Sherry Colb), as well as scores of law review articles about American constitutional law. He is also a columnist for Verdict. Michael is a former law clerk to Justice Anthony Kennedy of the U.S. Supreme Court and Judge Stephen Reinhardt of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.

Michael has appeared in American news media as a legal expert and has been interviewed by and/or quoted in, for example, The New York Times, CNN, National Public Radio and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (another suspected sentientist).

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

02:02 Michael's Intro

• Studying physics, then the law

• Clerking then legal scholarship

• Blogging @ Dorf On Law

• vegan since 2006

• Animal work in partnership with Mike's wife, Sherry Kolb "we agreed on nearly everything, but not quite everything"

04:44 What's Real?

• Growing up in New York, raised #jewish "but mostly culturally"

• "My father never went to synagogue unless it was somebody's wedding... he was not at all religious but he was the most ethical person I knew"

• "Religion is not necessary and certainly... not sufficient to make someone an ethical person"

• "That personal aspect... overshadowed anything I was being taught"

• Dad's library: "the answers that the religious folks were giving to deep philosophical questions... barely scratched the surface... whereas if I went into my dad's study... Bertrand Russell's "History of Western Philosophy"... Lao Tse..."

• Teaching: "what I really value is engagement with hard questions"

• "The sorts of answers that religion gives stop asking the questions just when they become interesting... god made the world... god thus commanded it... it leaves lots of further questions unasked"

• "Nearly all of the spiritual or supernatural beliefs I've encountered, whether religious or otherwise, strike me as ridiculous"

• "If that happens [god appearing] then I'll adjust my views... but that will be in response to evidence... that itself would be a kind of naturalism."

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Katie is a theoretical cosmologist who holds the Hawking Chair in Cosmology and Science Communication at Perimeter Institute. Her academic research investigates dark matter, vacuum decay and the epoch of reionisation. Katie is also a popular science communicator who participates in social media and regularly writes for Scientific American, Slate, Sky & Telescope, Time and Cosmos. She is the author of the book “The End of Everything (Astrophysically Speaking)”

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:58 Katie's Intro

• cosmology & #astrophysics

• "The study of the universe from beginning to end from the smallest to the largest scales"

• darkmatter, the beginning of the universe & the end of the universe

• Research & public engagement

03:33 What's Real?

• Growing up going to church & youth group & #bible study

• United Church of Christ... liberal & open-minded #socialjustice #lgbtq rights

• Useful guidelines for life but "I never really understood how faith works... believing things without evidence"

• Exploring different religious traditions e.g. #judaism "attending church on Sunday mornings and synagogue on Friday nights"

• "I always wanted to believe something... there's a fundamental urge most humans have to connect with the divine... #spirituality of some kind... the problem was I didn't believe in anything"

• Connecting with religious songs, prayer, rituals about forgiveness & bettering yourself...

• Being told "just believe"... "I don't know how to do that!"

• "I believe things if I see evidence for them... if I have some reason"

• A scientifically curious kid

• "The way I relate to the world... is through evidence"

• "I don't fundamentally grasp the concept of choosing your perceptions... choosing your beliefs. I don't think I can do that"

• Ontological & epistemological naturalism

• "I haven't had a spiritual experience... I assume I would write it off as something explainable through psychology and physics... but I can't say for certain"

• Enrolling in a #theology seminary school after graduating in physics: "wanting to understand religion... why people believe in things... I dropped out after 6 months"

• "I've done everything... went to every service... went to seminary... I did all the things and still god has not appeared to me in any way... I was a little bit jealous... that certainty, that feeling of peace... you are loved by the most powerful being in the cosmos... that sounds really cool... sign me up"

• "I could follow all the rules... I couldn't believe"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Neil is a professor of philosophy with research interests spanning philosophy of mind, psychology, free will, moral responsibility, epistemology & applied ethics. He is Senior Research Fellow at the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics & professor of philosophy at Macquarie University, Sydney. From 2010, he was head of neuroethics at the Florey Institutes of Neuroscience in Melbourne. He has written many papers & books, including “Bad Beliefs: Why They Happen to Good People“.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Is Neil a #Sentientist ?

02:05 Neil's Intro

• Perpetual winters between Oxford & Sydney

• Philsophy of applied ethics, free will, epistemology

• Neil's episode on #DecodingTheGurus re: intellectual virtue signalling

03:55 What's Real?

• Brought up #jewish "very much a cultural thing... synagogue twice a year" in #southafrica Africa

• Jewish Saturday school

• Moving to #Australia & attending religious school

• At 11-12 "This doesn't make much sense to me - this god business. I've been a convinced #atheist ever since"

• "Being religious can be perfectly reasonable"

• Subjective rationality "how well are you processing your evidence given where you are?"

• "People are much more rational than we think... even #QAnon supporters... they're completely wrong... but if they believe what they're saying... they're rational given where they start"

• Trolling & #bullshit

• "We've got lots of evidence people don't believe what they're saying"

• Determinism & #freewill & "the epistemic condition on responsibility"... "nobody does have that kind of control over their beliefs... they've done the best they can with the evidence available to them"

• "Criticism comes cheap... so does praise"

• "Luck explains so much" constitutive & present luck

• "It gives us more to do... of the sort of things philosophers aren't good at"

• Teaching critical thinking, logic, fallacies "people get better... but they don't get better at using it outside the classroom"

• "In the classroom I give you evidence... they stipulate it... you just accept it"... "But in the real world you're faced with the continual problem... should I trust the evidence?"

• A key reason people don't update beliefs given new evidence is because "they just don't trust the evidence in the first place... and you can formally model why they shouldn't... given what they already believe"

• The "capital punishment views" experiment

• "If somebody shows me a prima facie plausible study showing that... all dogs have 5 legs... I'm going to think... that it's bullshit"

• Bayesianism

• Gullibility, dogmatism, #skepticism

• QAnon , #Antivaxx , #homeopathy

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Crystal is a veterinary practitioner, a journalist and an activist. She is the co-founder of Our Honor, a charity aiming to create an organized network of veterinary professionals who are able to challenge unethical institutionalised systems and amplify the voices of those who have been marginalised.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• "I'd love for these sorts of conversations to be had in #veterinary schools"

• "Should all vets maybe adopt a #Sentientism philosophy?"

03:21 Crystal's Intro

• "A veterinarian who kind of recently joined the animal rights movement"

• "This movement has kind of taken over my whole life"

• Full-time veterinary practice & founding Our Honor

• Empowering vets to "speak their conscience & confront systems of violence"

• Countering bullying & retaliation

• Compassionate Bay working on Californian legislation

• The California fur ban & global impact

• "It's quite astonishing - the resistance in the veterinary community to animal rights"

• The founding of veterinary practice in animal exploitation

• "They actively keep out anybody with an animal rights agenda from entering the profession"

06:36 What's Real?

• Growing up in an agnostic family on a farm

• Celebrating Christmas

• "What are you, Christian or Jewish?... like those were the only two options"

• Asking what happens when chicks die... "their soul goes to heaven"

• Young people's encounters with death "shocking & terrifying" "but I don't have that same sense of trauma from it... they're being released from this faulty body"

• "I have a very scientific mindset"

• Reading the Bible... being fascinated

• Arguing about organ donation

• Weddings: "the wife had to obey & submit... that didn't seem like something I could jump on board with"

• @ellendegeneres #ellendegeneres coming out & being attacked by religious homophobes

• Religion: maintaining hierarchy & power structures vs. people treating each other better

• "What if agnostics & atheists organised themselves - would they end up trying to oppress others?"

• "There are some big unanswered questions... why am I here... where does consciousness come from? Once you die, lights out... really?"

• "...consciousness is a supernatural thing? I don't know"

• Ontological & methodological / epistemological #naturalism

• "All models are wrong but some are useful"

• Sentience vs. consciousness

• Panpsychism & Luke Roelofs episode...

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Eva is the operations lead for the startup non-profit Pax Fauna. Pax Fauna exists to design a more effective social movement for animal freedom in the U.S. Eva has been organizing in the animal freedom movement since 2015 when she started working with Direct Action Everywhere (DxE) in Chicago, where she focused on building community, writing protest music, and compiling the movements’ songs into an online songbook used by advocates around the world. She started working full time as DxE’s legal coordinator in 2018, managing the organization’s many legal cases, organizing trainings, and orchestrating large artistic demonstrations. Building on a background in Kingian nonviolence, Eva is a dedicated student of #nonviolentcommunication and is committed to bringing NVC’s repertoire of creative problem-solving tools to the work of building a better culture in the animal movement.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:39 Eva's Intro

02:48 What's Real?

• "Growing up I definitely loved the supernatural... ghosts... god... mystical things"

• Raised #episcopalian, baptised, church "I remember really enjoying that"

• Considering confirmation but "starting to feel a little bit sceptical"

• 5th grade: Debating people online about religion

• "A sudden realisation... I don't actually believe all of this"

• Looking for purpose

• Identifying as an #atheist & focusing on the harms of religion (unaccepting, destructive, family rejections)

• "I still don't believe in anything that can't be falsified"

• "I'm really connected to the needs that can be met by religion..." working in an end of life hospice

• "My own spirituality... characterised by #nonviolence" a Kingian perspective, nonviolent communication

• Meeting the needs (community, morality)... without the supernatural

• Valuing acceptance & care for others led to hostility vs. some religious ethics

• yoga & #meditation then finding "a more secular form of meditation"

• Using supernaturalism as a metaphor

• Naturalistic "spirituality"... "a felt sense of purpose"

13:20 What Matters?

• Non-violence: Getting away from black & white "right and wrong" thinking to "thinking about needs"

• Finding creative alternatives to meeting needs without violence

• Needs & strategies to meet them

• More fundamental needs: safety, sustenance, freedom from suffering

• maslow 's hierarchy, Scott Barry Kaufman's sailboat @ThePsychologyPodcast

• Protective use of force. Justifiable force. "Nonviolence is definitely not #pacifism "

• Mourning unmet needs

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Between 1999 and 2014, Bel was Style Editor for Metro. The fall of Rana Plaza in 2013 forced a re-assessment; today, she is a writer, speaker and activist with a focus on animal rights, the climate emergency and the toxic fashion system. Bel has taken part in and moderated numerous panels for brands and organisations and has been interviewed about her work in activism, alternative systems in fashion and culture change.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:48 Bel's Intro

• Journalism, fashion editor, social & animal justice activism

• "The world of fashion sucks you in"

• Co-founding The Islington Climate Centre & running The Empathy Project

04:19 What's Real?

• (I mis-spoke & asked "what matters?" - sorry!)

• Growing up in #hongkong ... rich, vibrant, urban

• "Really loving animals" first companion animal at 3 "they were these beautiful things"

• Stray animals & wet markets "but no one talked about it"

• Food "a very big deal in that culture"... valuing the exotic e.g. suckling pig / turtle soup

• "At least they were honest... there was no pretense at compassion"

• "I tucked in because everyone else tucked in"

• "I held this love of animals whilst eating them for a very long time"

• Growing up "broadly agnostic" with a Jewish father & a mother who moved through various religions

• Saying the Lord's Prayer every morning at school

• "I just couldn't correlate why there were so many sad things happening & god didn't seem to be very active in sorting it out"

• Coming to #spirituality through "the extent of the suffering... abuse... cruelty"... "I could not rationalise it"

• "I'm going to drive my love to them through thought & visualisation & #meditation "

• "My god is the natural world"

• "Animals are the sentient representations of nature"

• "I do like to get my hands in the soil"

19:34 What Matters?

• "Religions are man made constructions... constructed in times long gone... by powerful men... You cannot not question them."

• Suffering as central to understanding good & bad

23:46 Who Matters?

• "Even as we talk most people will think we're talking just about humans"

• Moral philosophy's focus on humans

• The rationalisations that support animal exploitation "I had an innocent idea of what authority does"

• "I would volunteer in animal shelters then go home and have a meat dinner"

• A journalist trip where they helped a sheep get free from barbed wire then "had lamb for dinner"

• "My awakening... was my encounter with the #Yulin dog meat festival... I started to question the nature of humanity"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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This episode is a bonus cross post of my conversation about Sentientism with Nathan and Todd on their Beyond Atheism podcast. Beyond Atheism moves beyond questions of gods' existence to ask "what's next in a godless world?" If that question interests you make sure you go and subscribe. Many thanks to Todd and Nathan for inviting me. I think they're on their way to Sentientism…

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what (and who) matters?”

Sentientism answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Paige is Communications Director for the streaming platform UnchainedTV. After initially going vegan “for the environment” Jane became an ethical vegan after attending her first vigil with LA Animal Save. Paige later became a Contributor for JaneUnchained News where she reported on vigils, PETA protests, VegFests, book launches, Cubes of Truth & vegan conferences. Paige then became Booker for LunchBreakLIVE, a daily cooking show & Senior Booker for JaneUnChained News. Now, as UnchainedTV Comms Director & co-producer/co-host of the Plant Based In the ‘Burbs show, Paige brings inspiration, humor & humbleness to the kitchen, showing simple swap outs & easy recipes to inspire people to bring more plants on their plates. She also works with Gwenna Hunter who launched the first vegan food bank in Southern California.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

02:00 Paige's Intro

05:09 What's Real?

• Paradigm shifts & language

• Cultural differences re: dog & horse meat & values

• Living on a cattle ranch w/grandparents "hard work & love"

• California to Tennessee & back

• "I'm more #spiritual than religious"

• Agreed meanings of "humane" "so that humans can feel comfortable eating these animals"

• "A lot of systems are breaking down" some in a good way, some not so good

• COP27 #greenwashing

• The Farm Bill, animal agriculture subsidies, lobbying

• How bad ethics & bad epistemology feed each other

• A sunday school teacher aunt

• Corporal punishment "for me there was a Bible & a ruler"

• "Pretty much buying into the American way... & #christianity "

• A spiritual workshop

• thesecret & Michael Beckwith & the Agape International Spiritual Centre "A Baptist/Buddhist experience... this really fits my heart... commonality & peace"

• transcendence & interconnectedness in both naturalistic & spiritual ways of thinking

• JW: Risks in spiritual movements that focus on "#manifesting your own future... so if bad things happen to you it's your fault" & high control & dangerous leaders & coercion

• "If we take personal responsibility we can socially change... stop blaming others"

• "Everything that has ever happened to me I take full responsibility for... even child abuse."

• "A brother who took his life at 19"... "losing both parents to brain injury"

• "I'd rather be empowered"

• Risks of victim-blaming, even when the victim is ourselves

• "There are situations where there are victims, perpetrators... (JW) & systemic influences we have very little control over"

• Children working in US slaughterhouses

• "Work towards justice for others"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Lori is Executive Director of The Kimmela Center and Founder & President of The Whale Sanctuary Project. She is a neuroscientist and expert in animal behavior and intelligence, formerly on the faculty of Emory University where she was also a faculty member at the Emory Center for Ethics. She is internationally known for her work on the evolution of the brain and intelligence in dolphins and whales and marine mammal welfare in captivity, as well as cognition in farmed animals through The Someone Project. In 2001 Lori co-authored a ground-breaking study with Diana Reiss offering the first conclusive evidence for mirror self-recognition in bottlenose dolphins, after which she decided against conducting further research with animals held captive in zoos and aquariums.

Lori has published over 130 peer-reviewed scientific papers, book chapters, and magazine articles on marine mammal biology and cognition, comparative brain anatomy, self-awareness in nonhuman animals, human-nonhuman animal relationships, and the evolution of intelligence. Lori has appeared in several films and television programs, including Blackfish; Unlocking the Cage; Long Gone Wild and the upcoming documentary about Corky, the orca held captive by SeaWorld since 1969.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Guest links e.g. Kathy Hessler https://youtu.be/R5eZebUAsQg

01:52 Lori's Intro

• A central question: "What is it like to be another animal?"

• "I ran into ethical issues that shaped how I conducted my career"

• Science then science-based advocacy "it's all based on facts"

04:12 What's Real?

• Raised Roman #Catholic as an Italian American in Brooklyn NY "Church on Sunday"

• "I started to question the whole proposition... that there's some sort of a god"

• Heaven, hell, sin "It's not light hearted... it's dark"

• Becoming a recovering Catholic

• "If there is a god, it's on vacation" & the #problemofevil

• Becoming #atheist "that's what I am today... I don't see any reason to propose that there's anything supernatural out there"

• agnostic "what does that even mean?... I'm atheist in the same way that I don't think that there are purple dinosaurs walking around in my room & talking to me... I'm not agnostic about that."

• "I didn't ever draw my ethics from religion"

• Catholic "#ethics but from a very weird point of view"

• The psychological needs motivating religious belief

• Teenage dabbling in #pseudoscience

20:45 What and Who Matters?

A Better Future!

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Kathy is Assistant Dean, Animal Legal Education at George Washington University Law School and Director of the Animal Legal Education Initiative. Kathy has been a clinical law professor for 30 years and has been teaching animal law for 22 years. She is the first law professor hired to teach animal law full-time. Kathy helped develop the Center for Animal Law Studies at Lewis & Clark Law School (L&C). For fourteen years she taught there and directed the Animal Law Clinic. She also created and directed the Aquatic Animal Law Initiative and is the co-founder of World Aquatic Animal Day along with Amy P. Wilson. Kathy co-authored “Animal Law in a Nutshell”, “Animal Law – New Perspectives on Teaching Traditional Law” and the amicus briefs submitted in the U.S. v. Stevens and Justice v. Gwendolyn Vercher cases. She has written numerous law review and other articles and teaches and lectures widely across the U.S. and internationally.

Kathy was a board member with the Animal Legal Defense Fund; helped found the Animal Law Committee of the Cuyahoga County Bar; and was the chair and a founder of the Animal Law Section and the Balance in Legal Education Section of the American Association of Law Schools (AALS). She was also a co-chair of the Clinical Legal Education Section of the AALS, is on the board of the Center for Teaching Peace and is a fellow at the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Randall Abate

01:30 Kathy's Intro

• animallaw professor & practitioner

• nonviolence activism

• "This is one area of law where students can do something today... to change things"

• "& they're implicated... what we eat, what we wear"

• "It's hard to say 'all day I'm talking about protecting animals' & go home & eat them"

06:39 What's Real?

• Raised #Catholic & #republican "Rules bounded, status quo, respected authority... dogmatically religious"

• "You weren't supposed to question"... just listen to parents & nuns

• Noticing inconsistencies (in one place girls can be altar servers, in another they can't)

• Mid to late #1960's "A lot of questioning"

• Vatican II

• Liking justice aspects, not liking treatment of women/indigenous people

• Questioning in college

• "If people who told me that god existed... were wrong about women... they could be wrong about god"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Carol is an author, artist, animal activist and scholar whose work focuses on the reality of animals’ lives as important contributors to the biodiversity of this planet. She is Professor Emerita of Design and Dynamic Media and Critical and Cultural Studies at the Emily Carr University of Design, Vancouver, BC. CANADA. Her most recent book is The Creative Lives of Animals.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Other sentientism guests: Marc Bekoff, Lori Marino (forthcoming!), Jessica Pearce

02:11 Carol's Intro

• Starting out as an actress but "I didn't like saying other people's words"

• Printmaking, art, animal rights activism, animation, writing "I felt like I had a lot to say"

• TomRegan & Nancy & "The Dante Series"

• Criticising biotechnology & bioart (people using animals as objects in their art) "lots of friends in the arts who no longer are really my friends"

• Helping develop #Criticalanimalstudies

• ecoart

• "It's very new for people to take animals seriously"

• Writing Creative Lives: "Animals are individual creative beings"

• Anthropocene & biodiversity

• "I was writing so much about animals as victims... [they] are much more than that"

10:30 What's Real?

• Italian Catholic upbringing in #pittsburgh

• Rational father & "strongly emotional" women

• "Eating the body of Christ"

• "I'm not a practising Catholic"

• Informed by Buddhism "but not a practising Buddhist either"

• "The naturalistic way of looking at things - it's really important"

• "Creativity itself is an unknown quantity"

• "A universal, multi-species creativity?"

• Differing perspectives on the same reality

• EdYong 's "An Immense World"

• Reading Annie Dillard's "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek" after a bad car accident

• Physics & "On creativity" by #DavidBohm & "spooky action at a distance." "We are all connected... in a way we're not aware of"

• "Once you start reading... you start to be critical of things... my parents... never loooked into what I was reading :)"

• Becoming sceptical of #catholicism quite early. 8th grade "I gotta get out of here"

• Dante's Inferno as a metaphor for animal experimentation

• Humility is critical

• Wicca & #witchcraft & #spirituality

• "Animals are struggling just like we are"

• The dangers of reifying animals or "nature"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Dan is the host of Truth Wanted, a call-in talk show that's part of the Atheist Community of Austin.Truth Wanted focuses on how and why people believe what they believe - and how we can talk about beliefs in more effective ways - whether it’s karma or Christ, Bigfoot or crystals.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Dan "coming out" as #vegan during Jamie's co-hosting of Truth Wanted

03:08 Dan's Intro

• Listen to Truth Wanted! Is space real? Are there bug creatures on Mars?
• "Americans in particular - not super great at the whole #epistemology stuff"

05:07 What's Real?

• Growing up #Methodist , then switching to a #baptistchurch
• Community more than theology "your parents went to church so you went to church"
• "I did believe"
• Doing evangelical ministry
• Being baptised twice!
• Talking to @Anthony Magnabosco of @Street Epistemology "It was a stepping stone on a journey... I was already deconstructing"
• "This faith thing doesn't really make sense"
• Being an "igtheist" (basically an atheist) and a #Sentientist
• @Being Reasonable's Mark Solomon https://youtu.be/OybxPFN8Ifc
• The Bible "doesn't really stack up." Progressive Xtian & Xtian mystic phases
• Reading @Sam Harris
• "I was definitely homophobic... transphobic growing up". "My Christian faith told me it wasn't right, it wasn't natural"
• "When you have a naturalist worldview it's harder to be homophobic"
• Changing ethics & politics: abortion, immigration
• "Christianity was all I knew... I didn't understand how to be a good person outside of Christianity"
• Struggles of leaving Xtianity. Lacking community (no @Secular Student Alliance in Waco) "that was tough"
• "There would be more athiests if it was more normal"
• Atheists within religious communities
• Selective dogmatism: #Qanon , #antivaxx , #goop products, #homeopathy
• "#cognitivedissonance is a bitch"
• "When you don't have someone who is actively challenging what you think you can just think what you want"

• miracles

• "Churches aren't places for critical thinking"

• epistemology #fideism #dogma

• Hebrews 11: "faith is the evidence of things not seen" enables any arbitrary belief

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Karen is an animal rights advocate and president of United Poultry Concerns. UPC is a non-profit organization founded in 1990 to address the treatment of domestic fowl in farming – including chickens, turkeys, and ducks. Karen also runs an animal sanctuary. She is the author of several books on veganism and animal rights, including Prisoned Chickens, Poisoned Eggs: An Inside Look at the Modern Poultry Industry (1997) and The Holocaust and the Henmaid's Tale: A Case for Comparing Atrocities (2005).

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:23 Karen's Intro

• @United Poultry Concerns

• Meeting Viva the chicken

• "A lifelong affinity for birds"

• Seeing a friend's father killing a hen

05:05 What's Real?

• Growing up in Pennsylvania

• Catching & killing wildlife "my parents never objected"

• Everybody went to some kind of church "that's what we did then... respectable people go to church"

• Sunday school "for parents to have some time to themselves"

• Parents not very religious

• "God didn't make rats, the devil made rats" to rationalise killing

• "I was never a believer"... "If I joined the church... I could wear stockings instead of socks"

13:08 What Matters?

• "I was always directly affected by others whether they were human or other than human"

• Childhood distress: a duck being run over, baby birds falling from nests

• empathy & #compassion as a moral core

21:02 Who Matters?

• Father & brothers hunting pheasants, squirrels & rabbits

• Realising what father was doing in the cellar

• Arguing at the dinner table "I wasn't thinking about who was on my plate"

• Father: "Everything hunts the rabbit"

• "I relate directly to other creatures - I don't need any belief system at all"

• Reading "The First Step" by #leotolstoy . Giving up animal products as the first step of #nonviolence ... "that was really it - I didn't want to eat animal flesh any more... that was in 1974"

• Animaltesting . #EdwardTaub 's primate research #SilverSpringmonkeys

• Nurses having to do animal experiments to qualify

• Do you need to have a psychopathic detachment to be a vet/doctor?

• Being a juvenile probation officer

• Being traumatised by SPCA literature on #harpseal slaughter "This was my eye opening experience of institutionalised animal abuse"

• Witnessing seal culling in Canada in 1974

• National Geographic asking photographers to damage Beaver habitats to get a good story

• Brian Davies' book "Savage Luxury"

• Lisa Kemmerer

• Cultural/traditional/religious justifications for causing harm...

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Anthony or A.C. is a philosopher and author. In 2011 he founded and became the first Master of New College of the Humanities. Anthony is the author of over 30 books including The Future of Moral Values, What Is Good?, The Meaning of Things, The Good Book & The God Argument. He was a fellow of the World Economic Forum, & is a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature & the Royal Society of Arts. Anthony is a vice-president of Humanists UK & an honorary associate of the National Secular Society.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:50 Anthony's Intro

• "I agree wholeheartedly with... Sentientism"

• humanism

• Supernaturalism, #naturalism , value & #morality

03:43 What's Real?

• A non-religious family

• Encountering religions at 13 yrs "preference for one kind of candy vs. another"

• Evangelical chaplain at boarding school "he galvanised me" & provided a reading list. "I've read everything & I simply cannot understand how you can believe this stuff"

• How Christianity remixes stories from other mythologies. "That demolished the pretentions of Christianity"

• "Religions keep their hold mainly by brainwashing the young"

• Malign effects of religion e.g. blocking science; "a kind of mental prison"

• Joining the #NewAtheist debate with #richarddawkins , #christopherhitchens

• Do gods exist?, should we have a #secular society?, should we have a #humanist morality?

• Why atheists & humanists still hold other dogmatic beliefs

• "All claims should be defeasible"

• "Instead of talking about knowledge, let us talk about rational belief". Belief ratioed to the weight of evidence

• There may be fairies in your garden but "it is profoundly irrational to believe it"

• The ethics of rationality

• "You often hear religious people saying you can't prove there is no god... I'm going to do it now." "in the empirical sense proof means test... like proving steel"

• CarlSagan 's Dragon in the Garage "the claim turns up empty"

• Standards of "discovery" in physics

20:57 What Matters?

• Spanning the #Is-Ought chasm "I emphatically disagree with Hume"

• "Very few people on the planet like to be cold, hungry, alone, in pain, oppressed... tortured... those few people who do like those things are weird"

• Mirror neurons, theory of mind & #empathy

• "There is a deeply naturalistic basis to the possibilities of moral behaviour... it takes culture to mess them up"

• Tightly linking the good/bad of feeling with the good/bad of ethics

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Sandra describes herself as a vegan foodie, content writer & editor and wife on a mission to empower others to make small, meaningful decisions & actions that will help make the world a better place. She is co-host of VEG Networking Canada, a place where plant-based & vegan companies connect & collaborate. Sandra is the author of the book “Vegan Marketing Success Stories“.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Sandra's Intro

• Filipino-canadian

• Literature, PR, marketing, writing

• Meditating: "This booming voice came to me... & said you're vegan now & you'll always be writing"

• Sandra's "The Content Doctor" business

• Writing "#vegan Marketing Success Stories"

03:41 What's Real?

• "A very #catholic household"

• Catholicism in the #phillipines due to #colonisation by Spain

• 13 years of Catholic school

• Church every Sunday

• Sermons: Fundraising & "We don't really welcome gay people" #homophobia "Two of my best friends had just come out"

• "That was the last service"

• "I never did believe in heaven & hell... metaphors"

• "I do believe in an afterlife"

• "There's a problem with the whole [Catholic] institution"

• Intuition & connecting to past ancestors "they're giving me signs... still here & watching over us"

• Why do colonially imposed religions retain such popularity?

• The Filipino disapora, challenging colonial restrictions, reclaiming indigenous practices (e.g. tattooing)

• Joining #nxivm... later discovered to be a dangerous #cult "If it feels painful - move towards it!"

• A clear image from a recently deceased grandfather

• Being guided by a deceased cousin in Montreal

• "From the little I know of #quantumphysics physics this is all very possible... that's why we have #ghosts "

• "The big bang... earliest atoms... that's my definition of god... the creator"

• "The potential... of love... we all come from stardust"

• Risks of religious & spiritual beliefs

• Scams, cults, crystals, alt-medicine, #antivaxx

• "Critical thinking caps" & #redflags

• Conspirituality podcast. #Yoga #wellness #spirituality

33:46 What & Who Matters?

• "Be a good person as much as you can vs. just being consumers"

• "I did not care very much for animals"... now vegan

• Documentaries: "Watching #earthlings ... hit me really hard... stop eating meat"

• "As soon as the idea of becoming vegan hit my brain... this is it!... it took me 11 years"...

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Jill has been a leading voice in digital media for more than a decade. She’s been published in outlets including MTV, The Huffington Post, and the Village Voice. She served as Head of Content for a popular vegan media platform from 2017-2020, with a reach of more than 50 million per month. She has worked with a number of impact media platforms to help build their traffic and positioning, as well as with leading brands and celebrities working to make the world a more sustainable and ethical space. Jill is the co-founder, CEO and Head of Content for Ethos.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:42 Jill's Intro

• Immersed in digital content

• Co-founding https://the-ethos.co/

• Vegan media & natural foods industries

• The #Conspirituality podcast & #DavidWolfe

03:42 What's Real?

• "The religion that governed my house was #bobdylan "

• Parents raised #Jewish, father became atheist, "7/11 jewish" mother

• Kicked out of hebrew school "one of my father's more proud moments"

• Living with dad after parents split

• Child of the 80's "you're on your own journey"

• Constantine Sandis https://youtu.be/iy0UdN7WTxc

• Becoming a mum

• Animals' different realities

• "We're the chosen people... an egregious statement... how can one group matter more?.. after so much suffering"

• Israel & #palestine

• Fond memories of Jewish culture but "as a rule to live by... not at all"

• "this omnipresent god... directing every moment of my life... I wanted the autonomy"

• Agnostic. Open to the idea of "some sort of god"

• dogma

• The risks of the #wellness / #spirituality worlds. #antivaxx, #Qanon, #alternativemedicine

• Open-mindedness, evidence & gut-feel

• DavidWolfe shows a #moonlanding #conspiracy video

• Distrust of authority

• Scepticism about vaccines didn't seem too serious "to each their own". Then #covid19 hits

• "I very much prefer to have science in my corner... but sometimes you can just tell"

• A denial, scepticism, gullibility spectrum?

• David Wolfe "leveraging science when it supported his narrative but slamming it when it didn't"

• Gossip as "a way to keep the tribal community safe"

• "Conspiracy theories... we use them unconsciously to defend ourselves"

32:10 What & Who Matters?

• "I don't think you need religion to know good from bad"

• @Sam Harris

• Raising a #vegan child "she asked what it was and I said that used to be a pig's stomach or back..."

• "She seems very much to understand that basic level of compassion"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Matt is Press Coordinator and an investigator for Direct Action Everywhere (DxE). As part of his activism he has conducted animal farm investigations, been threatened with prison for rescuing farm animals from abuse and pranked NewsMax and FoxNews by posing as the CEO of Smithfield Foods – exposing to millions of viewers the damage their industry does to non-human animals, human animals and to the planet.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

02:50 Matt's Intro

• DxE press & investigations

03:28 Eyes open to animals

• Deer hunting uncles. "Factory farms everywhere" in Iowa

• 4 yrs old "I don't want to eat animals"

• Family push back

• A religious family "God gave us animals for food"

• Being "a silent vegetarian" at school... in secret... feeling shame

• "Good friends of mine... through 13 yrs of grade school... never knew I was vegetarian"

• An aunt: "you're going to die if you don't eat animals"

• Uncles painting a dead deer's nose red for Xmas

• "These people around me are monstrous"

• The dissonance of "be kind" messages in kindergarten

10:24 What's Real?

• "In adulthood I'm not a religious person"

• New atheists, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris

• As a child: "The ethics smacked me in the face" (Problem of Evil)

• As an adult "facts & rationality"

• Jehovah's Witness dad... "I was hating the prospect of doing the door to door evangelising"

• Shunning. It's worse where the JW community has more power

• "#Freewill is an illusion" so "I don't... have any anger towards anybody"

• JW "We have will, we make choices, but they're not 'free'". Removing #retribution from the justice system? #MoralLuck

• An investigation "As cruel a practice as you can imagine" #VentilationShutDown... "The COO shows up ... I was straining my free will determinism in that moment"

• "Guilt & shame can be useful"

25:11 What & Who Matters?

• Utilitarianism ?

• "High-minded philosophical ideals... often used to launder right-wing ideas"

• "Sorry humans... but I have to put my energy towards the 99.99%"

• Offsetting & totalising utilitarianism

• Animal agri as a core case most ethical systems should reject

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Alene is the President and Founder of Legal Impact for Chickens. She graduated from Harvard Law School, clerked for a federal judge and then started litigating for animals. She has worked at People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), the Animal Legal Defense Fund, and The Good Food Institute. Alene is licensed to practice law in New York, the District of Columbia, and California. Alene is committed to helping chickens to honor the memories of her two beloved avian family members, Conrad and Zeke.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

02:08 Alene's Intro

• "Making factory farm cruelty a liability... we sue companies for abusing animals on factory farms"

02:44 What's Real?

• Raised #atheist "they didn't teach me anything about god"

• A friend & camp counsellor talking about someone who is always watching you - even indoors!

• Mum: "Just don't argue with them because you don't want to make them upset"

• "I'm an atheist today... because I've never been encouraged to be religious I think I have a much more positive view of #religion "

• "It's kind of hard to know if anything's real... I don't feel like I have evidence of anything at all... even that I exist!"

• "I do assume there's ground I can walk on... that the things I see are real"

• "Day to day I live very much like a naturalistic person"

• "There's probably a world outside my body"

• Imperfect memory & perception & dreaming

• Arbitrary beliefs

• "How do I know my mind is functioning correctly?... it helps me have more empathy for people that think very differently"

• Risks & harms of bad epistemology

• naturalism vs. #dogma vs. #fideism (#faith) vs. fake naturalism

22:25 What Matters?

• "#morality comes from psychology... humans just evolved morality... part of it comes from society"

• Descriptive & normative ethics

• Relativism

• "I have this intuitive sense that suffering is bad & joy is good"

• Utilitarianism

• Equality

• It's hard to convince a psychopath to be moral

• "Pick somebody who already cares about suffering... & show them how whoever I'm concerned about is suffering"

• Consequentialism, #virtue ethics, #deontology, #feminist care ethics

• Offsetting one being's suffering with the flourishing of another?

• pluralism

38:28 Who Matters?

• "I care about animals a lot"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Chaitanya is Assistant Professor at the Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS) in the Centre for Regulatory Policy and Governance. He has a PhD in Economics. Chaitanya’s research interests include economic development strategies in the global south, structural change, economic development and regulatory policy, urban economics, and non-anthropocentric strategies/alternatives to anthropocentric value systems in progress and conservation including food systems research (and maybe Sentientist Economics?)

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:42 Chaitanya's Intro

• Economics as a way to improve the world

03:45 What's Real?

• Growing up in a #sindhi family in India

• pakistan , #india & partition

• Having a #hindu temple at home

• An #atheist father "he didn't believe in all those things" who turned to religion after a difficult time

• "I don't believe in god"

• "Religion has always been a tool to marginalise different sections of the society"

• Rejecting faith

• Degree, masters, PhD... "questioning things... critical thinking"

• Before then, unthinkingly accepting what had been told

• "The way you think has real impact on society"

• "There are several ways of living life and one has agency"

• Evidence & reason, ethical & systemic critiques of religion

• "It's a very hard task to grasp reality"

• "I would rather... analyse things around me as they are"

• pluralism m

• Naturalistic views of relatedness & interconnectedness

• Finding a balance between defeatist humility & arrogant hubris

22:54 What Matters?

• Being sensitive, as a child, to humans & non-humans

• Growing up in a patriarchal society

• "Not cheating, working hard... stopping at red lights"

26:49 Who Matters?

• Sindhis typically eat meat, but father said "I always felt it was not the right thing to do"

• Buying meat from a public slaughterhouse "I did not feel comfortable but I used to love it [eating meat]"

• Family gatherings centred around #meat "everyone around me was relishing... & my father was telling me this is not the right thing to do"

• Fighting about eating meat at 4-5 years old

• Visiting the #slaughterhouse "this is where it comes from"

• sentience & the dangers of human-defined moral scope...

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Adrian is a multi-award winning fantasy and science fiction author. He is known best for his series Shadows of the Apt and for his novel Children of Time. Children of Time was awarded the 30th Arthur C. Clarke Award in 2016.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Preview!

00:55 Welcome

02:15 Adrian's Intro

• "I write books about giant spiders from outer space"

03:45 What's Real?

• "I'm very much on the science end"

• "We weren't a religious household"

• US/UK religiosity

• "A fascination with the natural world"

• Dabbling w/#spirituality "It's amazing how many people have been King Arthur"

• "I believed in every damn thing... desperate to find the 'other'"

• "The people who want to believe don't examine it"

• "Still... looking for that strange but within a scientific boundary"

• aliens

• evolution

• "I am pretty much entirely naturalistic"

• briancox

• homeopathy & "special cases"

• scientificmethod

• Tech & magic. Apt & Inapt

• telepathy , #psychics, #ghosts "people are out there trying to fake it is... tangential evidence that it is not real"

• "I'm not saying 'this cannot be' but I am saying 'show it to me'"

• "There is no supernatural"

• Do extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?

• cryptids

• "I don't want to be fooled by some... snake-oil salesman"

• "There's a weird sort of science cosplay going on"

• Folklore, fiction, speculation, narrative "this is a long way from saying 'this is the case'

29:15 What Matters?

• "Try to do no harm & don't be a dick"

• The Golden Rule & improvements

• Autism, pronouns... considering others

• Freedom & constraints on freedom

• "Being considerate & egalitarian... if you have the luck & the resources to be able to"

• "I get my morality from other people"

• "I could so easily have fallen in with a very different group of people"

• Divine command theory, relativism, nihilism, egoism

• "Science can be mis-used... race theory for example"

• "Religion defaults to a faith-based argument that effectively is not an argument"

• "I accept the theory of relativity but I don't understand it"

• Studying animal behaviour: Skinnerian behaviourism: "Animals... can't really feel pain"

• Animal intelligence. Spiders dreaming

• Phil of mind: #Illusionism, eliminativism, #panpsychism

• Origins of sentience "those are the things that make life do what it does"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Emerson is the host of the Counter Apologetics & Walden Pod podcasts, focusing mostly on religion, atheism and consciousness. Both are also available on his Emerson Green YouTube channel. You can find all his links here.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:32 Emerson's Intro

• Podcasting as a relationship saver :)

• Counter Apologetics (#religion & #atheism)

• Walden Pod (#consciousness & #panpsychism )

• "Religion is at the intersection of practically everything I care about"

05:01 What's Real?

• Raised as a #youngearth #creationist Christian, sheltered from science & philosophy

• Now atheist, "maybe beginning to lean #agnostic "

• Attending #apologetics Camp "this is the defence! I don't believe in god"

• @Answers in Genesis "they do try to give scientific & philosophical arguments"

• "Young Earth Creationism is one of the wrongest things you could propose"

• "A book from god seems like a pretty solid epistemic source"

• "The universe... is really not 6000 years old"

• Mum is a professor at an Xtian university

• "It's wrong to say they're #anti-science exactly"

• "I learned about evolution later & was blown away"

• "I was blown away by how bad the Bible was... morally"

• The failure of prayer

• mormonism & the "Under The Banner of Prayer" film. The risks of thinking god is speaking to you

• "The mainstream Xtian narrative... is just basically incoherent"

• Hell & the #problemofevil vs. a just, good, god. #Theodicy

• Historical contingency, religious diversity

• "If they were born in India they'd probably be Hindus"

• "I was very angry for a while... felt like I'd been lied to"

• The psychological shock of deconverting

• "If I could choose to be believe I would... just for the sake of my mum"

• The distress of family & friends

• Hidden atheism within religious communities & even pastors

• Shunning e.g. "gay homeless teenagers around Salt Lake City"

• Natural #theology

• Fideism & faith vs. "everyone I know has reasons"

• Philip Goff & secular religion

• @Bart D. Ehrman

• Naturalism & the natural world as "common ground"

• Usage vs. definitions

• Conservative/scientific & moderate/abstract & liberal naturalisms vs. supernaturalism

• "Sometimes I self-deprecatingy call myself a 'spooky naturalist'"

• "Here's what we know from science - is that all there is?"

• @Sean Carroll

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Pearl describes herself as “poly-vocational”. She is a foreign relations & management consultant with an MA in International Relations & an MBA in International Business. She is a vegan whole foods advocate via her “Le Twisted Spoon” club. Pearl is also a community organiser, public speaker & sometimes a political candidate!

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:17 Pearl's Intro

• Foreign relations consulting & #vegan activism

02:55 What's Real?

• Growing up in #kansas USA

• A traditional African-American household

• "There's a connection between people clinging to religion & #poverty"

• "This disparity between what was taught on Sunday and what people practiced throughout the week"

• "Unsavoury" behaviour by church leaders

• Poverty, moving frequently, homeless shelters

• Church charity (food, paying bills)

• "As an adult I feel much more #spiritual & less religious"

• "If it didn't make sense to me I had a problem with it"... Santa Claus etc.

• Open-minded mum

• Church corruption & money "You have to pay to pray"

• Disparities in the #bible

• Churches teaching Jesus but not following his example

• "Everything was taken away from the people who came over [slavery] and it was replaced with this [Christianity]"

• "I still believe there's something higher than myself"

• Christianity's role in colonialism

• religion 's allure for those suffering ("your suffering in this life doesn't matter because heaven!"). "A lot of really bad things have been allowed to happen because of that principle..."

• Compassion vs. status, in-out groups, hierarchy

• Three experiences "I have zero explanation for that"

• "Is there someone bigger than myself that clearly loves me - I know that for sure"

• The problems of suffering & unanswered prayers "It doesn't add up rationally"

• "The kind of god I want to worship & love wouldn't behave in that way"

• Jesus' teachings vs. Jesus as a god

• Husband became #christian by listening to Christian radio in Paris

• Church food banks & real help

• "I don't think that maybe 'Christian' is the right term to describe myself these days"

• Even #jesus threatened non-believers with hell

• Child abuse in religious groups. Risks of authority/power/groupishness

46:03 What and Who Matters?

• Growing up - "family matters"

• "If you have something you should share it"

• "Unless you piss me off" :)

• US Marine Corps scholarship & a sense of nationality

• Justice & equality

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Ingrid is an animal activist and the president of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), the world’s largest animal rights organization. She is the author of several books, including "The PETA Practical Guide to Animal Rights", "Animalkind" and the 30th anniversary new edition of "Freeing The Animals". Ingrid has worked for the animal-protection movement since 1972. She has been given the following awards: Washingtonian of the Year, 1980; Courage of Conscience Award, 1995; Shining World Compassion Award, 2007; Ahimsa Award, 2014 and the Peter Singer Prize for Strategies to Reduce the Suffering of Animals, 2016.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:24 Ingrid's Intro

• Building PETA, the world's largest animal advocacy organisation

• Writing 14 books including "Free The Animals" about the Animal Liberation Front

03:39 What's Real?

• "We are all creatures of our upbringing"

• A strict, "victorian" father & a very kind mother

• "I was shipped out to boarding school & raised by some disciplinarian nuns"

• Nuns took out their bitterness on the "little rich girls" in their care

• Rejecting the nuns' oppression helped motivate Ingrid to be rebellious, to fight for the powerless & seek justice

• Earliest memory: Family dog "was like my brother"

• Church on Sunday, but "it never really stuck with me"

• Being lured into religiosity, but "it was a passing phase"

• "I rejected what the nuns said because they were so ghastly"

• Roman Catholicism. Praying at 6am every morning, "a lot of silence"

• "We didn't respect the nuns... they were barbaric... even of the little kids... 5 & 6 year olds who would cry themselves to sleep"

• A visiting Jesuit priest got one of the school-girls pregnant

• "For a while I would cross the road if I saw a nun coming the other direction"

• Later re-engaging with Christianity (bible, church)... "ultimately I completely rejected it... it made no sense at all... if there is a god it's... a cruel god or a powerless god"

• Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

• "I'm not afraid to say I'm an atheist"

• "Ricky Gervais & Bill Maher... are not kowtowing... are not intimidated"

• The imperative to speak out (where others can't)

• Being told to accept "mystery" on face value, "absurd" stories & blind faith

• Lisa Kemmerer's views on religious compassion for non-human animals

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Jackie is a former dairy & beef farmer turned full-time animal rights advocate. She is head of communications and a founding board member for the global non-profit, Vegan FTA (For The Animals). She also co-hosts their podcast and live shows. Jackie is also an author and public speaker.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

• Jordi Casamitjana (https://youtu.be/vtCwoq1XnUg) as a "vegan godfather" :)

02:28 Jackie's Intro

• From beef & dairy farming to animal advocacy & veganism

• Erin Wing (https://youtu.be/NAh1kLrp99Y)

04:20 What's Real?

• Growing up in a UK village in the 1970's

• Naturalist Gilbert White "England's first ecologist?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_White

• Christian community & school "If you're good to go to heaven & if you're bad Satan's going to get you"... "Nobody ever questioned it"

• Fitting in & FOMO "everybody went to church on Sunday"

• Joining the church choir, but not being religious

• Losing son Luke at 2 days old

• "If god loves us all... how come there are all these bad things happening?"

• "Any shred of belief I ever had... just went straight out the window"

• Spirituality? Unexplained things... a clock starting without batteries... "things happening for a reason?"

• "Maybe there's something greater out there... not god"

• Exploring Buddhism after going vegan "All you have to do is just be kind"

• Meditation & Yoga

• "There is such synergy between veganism & Buddhism"

30:38 What Matters?

• Good: "Not being mean... not killing" vs. god compliance

• "I don't think there is a hell..." except for what we do to non-human animals

• Sons coming home from Xtian school saying "god's going to strike me down!"

• Being most authentic & open at times when "I had nothing"

• Buddhism "has taught me not to judge other people... I get a lot of peace from it... being kind."

• "Being compassionate towards yourself is the hardest thing to do"

• Dairy farming: "What they are doing is evil... but you can't write them off as being inherently evil"

• "Everyone's got a reason for being the way that they are"

41:50 Who Matters?

• Killing a spider, terrified, at 8 yrs old, then feeling "mortified that I had ended that life... that's never left me"

• Husband Gareth carries a card to rescue bees with

• Reading an IWAF leaflet about seal culling

• Going vegetarian in 1987 after a Viva campaign on factory farming

• "I couldn't believe that humans could be so cruel"

• Father going shooting, being attacked by animal activists

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Lisa is an activist and academic who specialises in anymal and environmental ethics. She was an associate professor of philosophy and religion at Montana State University Billings until she retired in 2020 to found and lead the educational, vegan umbrella organization, Tapestry. Lisa is the author or editor of ten books including Animals and World Religions. She has also written over 100 articles and book chapters. Lisa coined the term anymal as a “correct” term for non-human animals.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:28 Lisa's Intro

01:58 What's Real?

• Linking epistemology & ethics

• "My mind sees a continuum"

• Being born with "a more eastern way of thinking"

• Metaphysical & practical concerns

• "I don't tend to use philosophy in an abstract way"

• "I have very little faith in human reasoning... we are not rational beings."

• Descartes reasoning that anymals aren't sentient

• "We cannot trust our reason... that doesn't mean reason's out... we need to do it with humility"

• "It's the extent of our power that makes our arrogance dangerous"

• "Roe vs Wade was just overturned... don't tell me humans are rational."

• "Trump's reality... I don't want to know about that"

• The USA: "Democracy requires education & we're not an educated public"

• "Our reason is flawed... we need to use it... we have to be sceptical"

11:53 What Matters?

• "Cultures & people - that's where you have to work"

• "To try to bring change I need to work with humans where they're at"

• "I can see the beauty in it... and I can see the problems in it"

• "Cruelty is not a good thing... compassion is a good thing... fairly universal"

• "I love religions... they have a committed strong belief... I can get a hold of it"

• "I have never, never talked to a serious Christian, & had them, after a serious conversation, say 'it's OK, what we're doing with anymals'... an atheist? - whole different picture."

• Fowler's stages of religion "I was there (stage 6) in my teens"

• "These religions are rock solid in teaching the core ethic... of compassion"

• Wild animal suffering & hell as challenges to a benevolent god

• "Western faiths tend to be very rigid..." Eastern faiths are more pluralistic/flexible?

• Compassion / empathy as central to Lisa's family's ethics

• "When you live in a community you can't tolerate cruelty"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Philip is a writer from Aotearoa New Zealand, of Pākehā (NZ European) & Māori (Ngāi Tahu) descent. He is a PhD candidate at the Uni of Sydney, affiliated with the Sydney Environment Institute. He holds a Master of Arts in Philosophy from The Uni of Auckland & diplomas in te reo Māori (the Māori language) from Te Wānanga o Aotearoa. Philip has written for publications such as the Guardian, Newsroom, & Takahē. His book, Love Notes: for a Politics of Love, is published by Lantern Books. In 2018, he co-organised 'The Politics of Love: A Conference' at All Souls College, Oxford. Philip was also kaiwhakatipu (editor) of He Ika Haehae Kupenga.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:54 Philip's Intro

• Writing on animals, Maori issues & "The Politics of Love"

03:10 What's Real?

• Neither parent very religious so grew up agnostic?

• Anglican Christian high school

• Sermons talked more about love than god

• Confirmed at 14 yrs... "ridiculous... what do 14 yr olds know?"

• "A lot of the metaphysical background was smuggled in"

• Anglicanism to comparative religion to philosophy

• Turning from metaphysical to normative/ethics/politics

• "The final nature of reality is unknowable to us & we just have to proceed on our senses"

• Albert Camus

• The risk of being distracted by esoteric philosophical questions... instead "We need to be engaged in work that tried to bring about a better world in the light of obvious suffering"

• "I do believe there is something transcendent that is true... spiritual... love"

• "Communing with the spiritual... but through a critical filter"

• "Prophets of love... Martin Luther King Jr & Te Whiti O Rongomai"

• God, purpose, meaning, spirit, love... "Our attempts to name it... project our own interpretations on to it... prevent us from fully understanding..."

• Ethical risks from religious or spiritual epistemologies (unchallengeable, unknowable, incommunicable, obedience, higher purposes, constrained/conditional compassion)

• Old, new testaments, "what would the next step be?... Something like love?... a more mature ethical outlook."

• Is something missing from a purely naturalistic ethics? "Not necessarily... we should & can find reasons for acting in a loving way independently from this spirituality I have described."

26:30 What Matters?

• "I understand ethics in relation to love & relationship"

• Constructing & affirming the morality we want to see in the world

• "We are living in an absurd world... we need to determine & assert our own values... try to act lovingly"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Ana Bradley is Executive Director of Sentient Media. Sentient Media is a non-profit journalism outlet aimed at making transparent the suffering that goes on in our food systems and inspiring readers to think more about the implications of what we eat. Ana also hosts the Sentient Media podcast.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:38 Ana's Intro

• Animals in the media (largely ignoring their perspectives)

06:17 What's Real?

• "I never had a conversation with my parents about god"

• Church of England school but "I never believed in... a man sitting in the clouds"

• Linking Christian & pagan festivals

• Celebrating equinox & solstice. Sunrise to sunset walks with dad

• Wikka, paganism, nature

• "Beliefs of respecting nature & respecting animals"

• Not practicing any religion but rituals of respecting the solstice & natural transitions

• Building an elements altar as a child

• "I don't believe in magic... but I do believe that nature & animals have incredible power & roles to play in the existence of our planet... it's weighted in science & reason & logic"

• David Attenborough's "Life of Plants"

15:15 What Matters?

• Looking to nature & our relationship with the planet

• The power and aura of natural cycles

• "The circle of life" (sorry for my singing) argument for animal product consumption

• The naturalistic fallacy

• JW: "Nature is awesome but it is not ethically good or bad"

• Wild animal suffering

22:07 Who Matters?

• At 6yrs old seeing a picture of a kitten being vivisected

• Family dog & fishes

• "I have this instinct to go to the underdog... the group or the being that is least respected or protected"

• Learning about exploitation of non-human & human animals around the world

• Children's natural empathy for non-humans... "we kind of beat it out of them"

• Making the connection between animals on the plate and animals suffering at 6 yrs old

• Asking about animal derived food "my parents told me the truth"... I said: "I don't want to eat animals"

• Supportive parents re: going vegetarian then vegan

• Social, psychological, practical, information impediments to veganism

• "One piece of the puzzle is knowing how to eat"

• "It took me a few years to realise what the dairy industry is"

• At 10yrs seeing a Viva poster of a dairy cow

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Erin is the Deputy Director of Investigations at Animal Outlook, a national animal-advocacy nonprofit organisation. Erin was an undercover investigator for two years. She left the field after her last investigation at the Dick Van Dam Dairy in California, where she saw cruelty, abuse & suffering every day. Through her new position with Animal Outlook, Erin works closely with investigators, providing support & resources.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:38 Erin's Intro

• Undercover farm & fishery investigations & Animal Outlook

02:46 What's Real?

• Growing up very religious...

• Church every Sunday, Biblical moral standards

• The Golden Rule "Do unto others..."

• "There was a point in my life where I started to question... there always seemed to be some exclusions... some conditions"

• "'Others' encompassed everyone... human, animals, children, everyone regardless of sexuality, background, identification..."

• No longer Christian, now non-religious... "someone who just wants to make the world a better place for everyone in it"

• "As I got older I started questioning things more"

• Very religious mother "faith based" who still encouraged questions

• Religious belief: "That's great for them... as long as no one is being hurt"

• Questioning both the facts & ethics of Christianity

• "It really came to a head for me... [I] managed to fall into almost every marginalised community" LGBTQ+, race...

• "I fell into so many of those categories that potentially might be excluded from salvation"

• The supernatural, luck, agnosticism?

• "I never rule anything out" humility

18:25 What Matters?

• [Golden Rule] "the way I would like the world to function"

• "...my own trauma & hardship & suffering"

• Compassion for it's own sake or because god commands?

23:30 Who Matters?

• "I've always had this connection with animals"

• As a child "I did not see a lot of kindness", often conditional compassion

• With non-human animals: "There are no conditions to receive affection from them"... "Those were the purest connections I could make"

• Making friends with a scary-sounding neighbourhood dog "I just felt a wet nose & breathing"

• Saving a stray dog & drowning kittens

• Watching an animal farming documentary at ~13-14 yrs old "I immediately felt horrified"

• "I could feel that contradiction... why am I eating this?"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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This episode is a recording of my presentation about Sentientism to the Terra.do climate change platform & community. Many thanks to Adam and the team for inviting me. My core presentation runs for about 30 minutes - the rest is an open conversation with the group. Drop me an email at hello at sentientism dot info if you'd like a copy of the slides - or you can see them on the YouTube of my presentation.

Terra.do is the world’s first online climate learning platform and community for professionals looking to pivot their career towards climate solutions. Their goal is to get 100 million people, in all sectors of society, working on climate change by 2030. They run cohort-based online programs for talented individuals that teach them everything about climate, plug them into a network of mentors and expose them to full-time/part-time/entrepreneurial work opportunities in the space.)

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what (and who) matters?”

Sentientism answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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LoriKim (she/her/we/our) describes herself as an educator, organiser, activist, conservationist, abolitionist, naturalist & healer. Originally from Jamaica & now living in the Bronx, USA, LoriKim has dedicated her life to working for social & environmental justice specifically organizing around LGBTQIA+, Black, Brown & Indigenous communities. LoriKim’s work in anthropology & her training as a biologist has helped her work against environmental racism, in providing environmental education for People of Color & in working towards decolonialism & liberation through veganism for over 25 years. LoriKim works as a founder, facilitator and organiser with organisations including BlackVegFest https://blackvegfest.org/ & The Cypher.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:26 LoriKim's Intro

• Educator, organiser, activist, conservationist, abolitionist, naturalist, healer

• "Black liberation practice" with "a queer & vegan lens"

02:38 What's Real?

• Growing up in Kingston, Jamaica

• "Being a Black country... what that means is that we had to really hold tight to our traditions, our histories that were muddled, were removed... because of slavery"

• "Highly colonised", stringent laws, highly carceral

• "Missionaries saw opportunity to come in and bring their various and sundry versions of the truth"

• Synchronising traditions into Christianity as the only way they could survive

• Growing up Catholic "A very white and blond Jesus... this is not someone I can relate to."

• "I never believed in Santa Claus"

• "Religion... as the framework I had to live under in order to go about my daily life"

• Communion, saying rosary, prayer

• "What I saw in the natural world did not reflect this idea that god created all of these things... I watched creation happen."

• Moving to the US at 13

• "This religion doesn't make any sense to me" & "bruk out" from church

• Coming out & stopping eating meat at 14

• "I could not equate this idea of loving all beings... and also eating them"

• "Yes - I'm an atheist... I don't believe any of this"

• "However, spirit moves you."

• Talking with ancestors "I thought that was me talking to myself, but..."

• "I would ask for things in my head & it would happen"

• "I never really strayed away from thinking about the world beyond"

• A multitude of universes & studying science

• "A hybrid of really being rooted in science... & there's so much more that's unknown that I know that I feel"

• "I'm an Aquarius & we don't follow anybody else's rules"

• Practising things that come from a lot of African ancestral traditions, "but not strictly"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Nicolas is a research associate at INRAE (L’institut national de recherche pour l’agriculture, l’alimentation et l’environnement) and the Toulouse School of Economics. His work focuses on risk and decision theory, environmental economics, benefit-cost analysis and, more recently, on animal welfare. He has published scientific papers on subjects including the precautionary principle, the value of statistical life, and climate policy. He has organized several international conferences and written numerous articles for the general public, as well as reports on risk policy issues.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:31 Nicolas' Intro

• Economics, risk, environment, psychology, now non-human animals

• "Trying to include animal issues into mainstream economics"

• From anthropocentrism to sentientism in every field?

04:40 What's Real?

• Growing up in SW France

• Catholic parents, but "religion was not very important"

• Attending church

• Not anti-religion but not a positive view either

• "Religions have contributed to a strong divide between humans and animals... dominion... stewardship"

• Surrounded by animals... dogs, cows in grandfather's farm, horses

• "I liked to view myself as an animal lover"

• "I like to see myself as a scientifically-minded person"

• Religious & naturalistic routes to anthropocentrism

12:08 What & Who Matters?

• "We are raised to eat meat... and we don't really question it"

• "My vegetarian epiphany" 10 years ago on a date

• "I was completely ignorant about what is going on in that industry [dairy, eggs, meat]"

• "I didn't see that when it's quite obvious - and I have wrong beliefs - what happened in my brain, my mind & in society?"

• Cognitive dissonance, meat paradox, psychology: "Every time I had new sources of information it was bad news"

• A colleague, expert in the meat industry, asked "what's the problem with animal welfare in the meat industry?"

• "People don't want to see, don't want to know... even the experts"

• "There is a demand for cognitive dissonance, but also a supply"

• The evolution of morality, but why do we care about animals - some more than others? Extension of our compassion for humans, reciprocity?

• Emotional / intellectual routes into moral consideration

• Bio/ecocentrism/holism

• "In economics, all research is anthropocentric"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Marina is a journalist, currently focusing on factory farming and the criminalization of activists who fight it. Marina has written for Vox, The Guardian, The New York Times, The Intercept and many other publications. She used to be an editor for Harvard Magazine. Before that, she wrote and edited for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, The Toledo Blade and The Harvard Crimson.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:25 Marina's Intro

• Zeroing in on animal-focused journalism

03:20 What's Real?

• Raised by a single mum

• Jewish but not v.religious (like many Soviet jews)

• Emigrating from Belarus to the USA at 3yrs old

• Growing up in St. Louis

• Orthodox Jewish school to 8th grade but "feeling like an outsider"

• "I was sceptical of the religious stuff from a pretty young age"

• Updating "my religion" on FaceBook as "The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster" in middle school

• Gender segregated classes

• Hearing anti-Arab racist statements in class

• "A profound sense of justice"

• Going vegetarian at 11 yrs old "if we don't have to kill animals... then it's wrong to do that"

• School-mates "did not understand vegetarianism... god gave us dominion over animals... they're happy to be killed & give us sustenance."

• Secular, progressive high-school, but "I wouldn't say that people's attitudes... were particularly different... different reasons... protein, animals not intelligent..."

• Moving to veganism

• "I see everything through an animal liberation lens"

• Secular/scientific/naturalistic worldviews don't guarantee good ethics either

• "I feel a profound connection to alll of life on earth, particularly animals & sentient life... it's something I can't express in material terms"

• Animal ways of understanding can transcend what humans are capable of. Birds navigation, dog smell capability...

• "Respect for non-human life & epistemological humility should underpin our efforts to understand the world - rather than the assumption that humans have the right to manage & dominate"

• "I still identify as Jewish... an important part of who I am"

• Atheists/agnostics within religious communities

• "The way I feel about life & animals can definitely be described as spriritual"

• Human dominionism "is totally at odds with my worldview"

• The harms that can come from religious or naturalistic worldviews

• "Science is responsible for a lot of evil stuff too"

24:00 What Matters?

• Justice

• "I reject any form of violence... & that's what animal agriculture is"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Susana is an assistant professor based at the Department of Logic, History, and Philosophy of Science of UNED, working on animal ethics and the philosophy of animal minds. She holds a BA in Philosophy from Complutense University of Madrid, an MA in Global Ethics and Human Values from King’s College London and a PhD in Philosophy from UNED, Spain. She has been a post-doc fellow at the University of Graz and at the Messerli Research Institute in Vienna. Susana describes her research interest as focusing on “what animals are capable of feeling, thinking, and doing, and what this means for the sort of treatment that we owe them.”

Susana led the project “Animals and the Concept of Death” which culminated in her book, “La Zarigüeya De Schrödinger” or “Schrödinger’s Possum”.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:46 Susana's Intro

• Vienna & Madrid cultures re: animals & veganism

03:57 What's Real?

• Growing up in a 100% atheist household. Unusual for 1980's Spain

• "I used to think of god as a woman" but "I never had it as a belief"

• No religious education... "It's a little bit sad"

• "It's always been very natural to not have god as part of the explanation"

• Some sense of shame about not being religious as a kid but "I quickly grew proud of my beliefs"

• Attending an international private school with rich kids "I knew I was different"... incorporated being an atheist into that difference

• Superstitions "Just in case" :)

12:51 What Matters?

• "I want to believe in moral realism - I don't want to be a relativist"

• "Sentience is definitely something that provides a good grounding for ethics & moral status"

• "I feel like something is left out if we focus excessively on sentience"

• Agency as a potential moral grounding? "Something that ought to be respected about agency"

• Wilcox: "agency & sentience are co-extensive"

• "Harms beyond sentience?... ways of wronging animals that don't correlate with subjective feelings": dignity, preventing from relations / developing capacity

• Drawn to objectiveless accounts of wellbeing more than hedonist accounts

• "Pleasure is something important... but a life that contains only pleasure... might be a good enough life, but it's somehow impoverished"

• Nihilism

• "It feels like experiences aren't everything"... "Experiences are subject to manipulation, habituation..."

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Mark is a psychoanalyst and neuropsychologist, best known for his discovery of the brain mechanisms of dreaming and his use of psychoanalytic methods in contemporary neuroscience. He holds the Chair of Neuropsychology at the University of Cape Town and Groote Schuur Hospital and is the President of the South African Psychoanalytical Association. He is also Research Chair of the International Psychoanalytical Association. Mark has received numerous awards, notably Honorary Membership of the New York Psychoanalytic Society, the American College of Psychoanalysts and the American College of Psychiatrists. He has published more than 250 articles and book chapters, and 6 books. His second book, The Neuropsychology of Dreams, was a landmark contribution to the field. His 2002 book (with Oliver Turnbull), The Brain and the Inner World was a best-seller and has been translated into 13 languages. His latest book, on the hard problem of consciousness, is The Hidden Spring.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:29 Mark's Intro

• The brain as the organ of the mind

• Breaking from behaviourism

• Studying psychoanalysis (first person) alongside neuroscience (studying from the outside)

• The value of interdisciplinary studies of consciousness

• Artificial intelligence perspectives

06:08 What's Real?

• Sunday school, Christian mother

• At 5-6 yrs old, father said "Your mum believes in all that stuff, I don't."

• Brother's horrific accident & brain damage: "He came back from the hospital... a changed person." "Who is this guy and where is Lee?"

• "I was forced at an early age to confront this question of the relationship mind & body... the person & the organism"

• "My sentient being must somehow be bound up with the functions of this bodily organ"

• "I think we underestimate little kids... they really do think about these things"

• "Clearly he is his brain"

• Finding it terrifying... intimations of our own mortality

• Lying in bed in panic: "I am going to cease to exist"

• Depression: "what's the point?"

• Becoming atheist, now agnostic. Appreciating the limits of human comprehension (through working with patients)

• "We're only able to comprehend as much as the instrument we use... is capable of... it's not a perfect instrument"

• Taking a comfort in ignorance & the limits of our capability

• "Do the best we can to understand" but "science has limits"

• Un-testable/falsifiable beliefs. Delusions as a response to frightening uncertainties

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Steve is a philosopher and professor emeritus of philosophy at California State University, East Bay who specializes in animal ethics, environmental ethics and meta-ethics. He was co-founder in 1985 of the journal Between the Species: A Journal of Ethics and served as its initial co-editor. Steve was a member of the board of the American Philosophical Quarterly (1991–1994). In 1983, Steve founded, with his wife Jeanne, the Hayward Friends of Animals Humane Society. They now operate Second Chance, Helping the Pets of People in Need, in California. Steve wrote Morals, Reason, and Animals, in 1987, Subjective Morals, in 2011, and edited Food for Thought: The Debate over Eating Meat; published in 2004.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:34 Steve's Intro

• Getting out of the ivory tower "Put the values you espouse into effect & help the animals"

• A seminal early voice in animal ethics

6:05 What's Real?

• Growing up in Salt Lake City

• Immigrant parents from war-torn Europe "focused on making sure they could make a living"

• Greek Orthodox & Methodist Christian parents

• Sunday School

• Order of the Cross cult (vegetarian because of reincarnation)

• "I was never interested in religion" "The story of Noah was really nuts"

• "The story in the 1950's was you couldn't survive without meat... but my mother proved that wrong"

• "We liked animals... didn't see the need to kill them for something totally unnecessary"

• James vs. Bertrand Russell "It's immoral to believe something just because it makes you feel good"

17:03 What Matters?

• Literature as a way into philosophy

• Philosophy at Rice University (classical, medieval, existential)

22:52 Who Matters?

• Singer's Animal Liberation

• Animals "were my friends"

• "The most basic principle of morality is not to cause suffering for no good reason"

• "I was very much a Kantian"

• Writing "Are Animals Moral Beings"

• "Utilitarianism can tend to subordinate the indvidual... it tried to do a science of ethics"

• "Kantianism has problems too"

• Pluralism & pragmatism: Care ethics, Singer & utility, Regan & rights, Korsgaard & Kant...

• "We need to build on history"

• Anthropocentric & bio/ecocentric challenges

• “A lot of environmental ethics… is nonsense”

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Kathryn Gillespie PhD (kathrynagillespie.com) is a writer, multispecies ethnographer, & feminist geographer. She is a Postdoctoral Scholar at the University of Kentucky in the Department of Geography & the Applied Environmental & Sustainability Studies Program. Her research & teaching interests focus on: ethnography & qualitative methods; feminist & multi-species theory & methods; food & agriculture; political economy; critical animal studies; human-environment relations. She is the author of The Cow with Ear Tag #1389. She has also published in numerous scholarly journals & has co-edited three books: Vulnerable Witness: The Politics of Grief in the Field; Critical Animal Geographies: Politics, Intersections and Hierarchies in a Multispecies World; and Economies of Death: Economic Logics of Killable Life & Grievable Death. Kathryn has volunteered with Freedom Education Project Puget Sound, Food Empowerment Project and Pigs Peace Sanctuary.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Kathryn's Intro

• Understanding the harms animals experience under capitalist & settler colonial regimes, particularly in food systems

• "Bringing individual animals into the frame"

• Field work in farms & auction yards "spaces of exploitation"

• Sanctuaries: Seeing the lasting harms of exploitation but also "places to imagine flourishing" & rehabilitation

• Multi-species auto-ethnography. Everyday violence & care

• Living w/chickens "turned us vegan" & lab-rescued beagles

• Academia & activism

07:52 What's Real?

• Raised somewhat in the Episcopal church

• "That just did not resonate with me"

• Visiting Baptist churches "that was incredible... a joyful explosion of faith"

• A Buddhist grandmother & "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh

• Practising Tibetan Buddhism as a teenager

• Buddhist compassion & Episcopalian blessing of animals on St. Francis' day

• Supernatural vs. naturalistic Buddhism "The supernatural stuff never appealed to me"

• Envying the pure, comforting faith of a fundamentalist Christian best friend

• Compassion for the other or because god tells you?

• Pagan & Wiccan practics

• People re-connecting with nature during COVID

• The etymology of "real" in Latin/Sanksrit from "wealth"... the capitalisation/commodification of life

• Emotional, embodied, lived experiences re: meaning, connection & knowledge making. Another form of evidence

32:10 What Matters?

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Dr. Mark Solomon is an author, neuropsychologist, musician and radio show/podcast host whose work touches on a wide range of topics. Mark produces a national Street Epistemology radio show/podcast called "Being Reasonable" (beingreasonableshow.com, @B_Reasonable_, @Being Reasonable)

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:25 Mark's Intro

• @Street Epistemology . Conversations about "what you know and how you know it" @Anthony Magnabosco , Reid Nicewonder @Cordial Curiosity

02:44 What's Real?

• Flat Earth

• Backfire effect

• Talking less about the belief & more about the reasons for the belief

• Improving our epistemology, not just "correcting" beliefs

• "I grew up in a Jewish household that didn't discuss god"

• Living with two separate epistemologies: naturalism / humanism but culturally Jewish

• "I couldn't even tell you that my rabbi believed in the supernatural"

• SE as a tool anyone can use

• Evidence & reason

• Objectivity & subjectivity

• Reality, truth, belief & opinion

• Starting conversations with understanding how people think of truth

27:44 What Matters?

• "I don't know"

• "I try to be a selfless person but sometimes I act selfishly"

• "I just act - I don't know if I have a choice"

• Uncertainty, psychology & moral foundations

• Suffering vs. flourishing (causing bad feelings in others is bad)

• Moral origins in evolution & psychology

• Determinism & free will

• Pre & non-human morality

• Compassion & co-operation as evolutionarily adaptive

• Virtue, deontology, utility, feminist care, relational ethics

• "If there were no sentient beings there would be no morality"

• Internal (warm fuzzy feelings, reciprocity...) & external reasons to be good

• True altruism & demandingness. "At least don't needlessly cause suffering & death"

• Emotional & intellectual routes to compassion

• Alleviating suffering vs. enhancing flourishing

• Universal Declaration of Human Rights

48:15 Who Matters?

• Nagel's "What is it like to be a bat?"

• Getting backyard chickens for eggs & as pets

• "It's become painfully obvious to us that they are really smart creatures with their own social order... they definitely feel suffering."

• "There are some really stark commonalities between humans & chickens"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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This episode is a bonus cross-post from my conversation about Sentientism with Nick Pendergrast on his Freedom of Species show on the 3CR community radio station based in Melbourne. Nick, who was my guest on Sentientism back on episode 88, turns the tables and asks me what's real, what matters and how to make a better world.

Make sure to tune in to 3CR and subscribe to Nick's Freedom of Species and Progressive Podcast Australia podcasts.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

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Lucas studied and practiced architecture in the U.S., Canada, and India before leaving it all behind in an effort to rethink what it is to live a meaningful life. Since then he's traveled the world, started a philanthropic enterprise, Haven Hearts, and written a beautiful, compassionate book. Along the way he enjoys playing frisbee, making things with his hands, and befriending every dog who crosses his path.

He is the author of The Weight of Empathy, a travel memoir. Lucas describes it as an exploration of both our relationship with animals and his own personal process of learning how to be a compassionate person in an often violent and uncaring world.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Lucas' Intro - author & social enterprise entrepreneur

• Architecture, travelling, volunteering, writing "The Weight of Empathy", benefitting the world

03:28 What's Real?

• Non-religious parents, "recovering Catholic" mother, father from a Jewish family

• Raised as a child on a "hippy" commune

• "From the moment I knew the word I probably identified as an atheist", but not anti-theist

• Some "woo-woo" spirituality. Tarot cards, divination, magic

• Open minded, rational, scientific way of thinking

• Experimenting w/levitation & telekinesis "It was not very successful"

• Religious inspiration in art/culture. Community & separation

• Where people turn to for explanations of the unexplainable

• Alan Watts & Daoism

• Hallucinogenics & mushrooms

• A "hybrid rationalist spiritual view"

• Carl Sagan

• "There's an inherent quality in matter... that is self-organising"

• From interstellar dust to stars to elements to life to sentience

• "Sentient beings are a way for the universe to observe itself"

• "Maybe if you took mushrooms you'd describe the same things in a different way"

• Teleology, fine tuning argument & the anthropic principle

• Multiple worlds

29:34 What & Who Matters?

• Sensitive, pacifistic tendencies

• Communism (Russian family history), justice, equality

• An affinity with non-human animals (dogs, cats & wild animal)

• Loving the family chickens, but eating them. "These were chickens I knew"

• Inventing a justifying narrative as a child that humans need to eat the meat of animals because "we're made of meat"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Adam is a Lecturer in Env. Sci. at Deakin Uni. He works on questions related to ecology, conservation & society. He is most interested in: i) how concern for Animals informs environmental values & practice, ii) the env. potential of transitioning to plant-based agri & iii) more critical approaches to how the sciences consider Animals. Adam wants to leverage research to help create a better future for Animals, the environment & humans.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:57 Adam's Intro - "An animal person". Vegan activist, lecturer & scientist

• The idea that animals matter "took over"

03:16 What's Real?

• Catholic grandma, mother traumatised by Catholicism, non-religious father

• High-school: enthusiastic atheism & "an affinity with science"

• Uni: learning about the social history & context of religions

• "I'm a proper atheist... I just don't think there's anything there"

• "How I think about reality is grounded in natural science"

• Humility re: complex systems (e.g. social, envir)

• Scientism. Science might not have all of the answers

• Reading fantasy & sci-fi: "Religion is just another fantasy book"

• Religious friends. Talking about bible inconsistencies & faith & submission

• "Letting your thinking be done by others - I'm not into that"

• Scepticism "show me the evidence"

• The positives of religious community & connection

• Environment: "Why can't we love it for what it is rather than investing some sort of supernaturalness into it"

• Faith vs. evidence & reason

• Pseudoscience & "pretend naturalism"

• Conspiracy theories, woo & Goop

• "Pseudoscience tries to use the language of science to trick people"

• QAnon: "That stuff is batshit"

• Teaching science communication

• Flat Earth, Cults & "True Believers"

• The "Oh No Ross & Carrie" podcast https://ohnopodcast.com/

• "Religion is an accepted mass delusion"

• Heaven & hell: "It's a good way to control people"

33:40 What Matters?

• Social cohesion & relationships

• "Being good to the person next to you... not harming"

• Pluralism: virtues, deontology, utilitarianism, consequentialism

• Evolution of morality: from having young that need care

• "Survival of the most caring?"

• "I don't want to just propogate my genes any more - that's why I'm not down the sperm bank every day"

• "Ethicists & philosophers often talk shit"

• The frequent disregard of conservationists for sentients (e.g. culling)

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Macken is a writer and science educator. He hosts a weekly podcast about animals, Species, recommended by both Apple and BBC’s Wildlife magazine. He is currently studying anthropology at the University of Oxford. He has written a children’s book about animal symbiosis, Animal SideKicks.

Content Warning - description of violence

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:54 Macken's Intro: Species podcast, writer, grad student

03:19 What's Real?

• Never exposed to the supernatural so "I never really had occasion to believe in it"

• Dad is a Pastafarian pastor

• Raised by two atheists (who were raised Protestant & Catholic in Northern Ireland during The Troubles)

• "Their first impression of religion in life was one that was related to needless violence... seeing someone get shot for their religious affiliation"

• "I've never seen even a slightly good reason to believe in any of that stuff..."

• Culturally still Christian (Santa!)

• Is spiritual but not religious... "trying to have your cake & eat it too?"

• Are those who grew up religious more likely to end up anti-religious than those who didn't?

• Odd that atheism requires such focus vs. arguing against the existence of Santa

• The risks of patronising deference to religion re: sexism, homophobia, bigotry

• Losing religious belief might harm some people

• Why is using evidence & reason the best approach? What if "I just don't like it"

• Different forms of evidence & reasoning

• Biases, denial, gullibility & skepticism

25:40 What Matters & Who Matters?

• Utilitarianism in theory & nihilism in practice

• Vegan "If I wasn't vegan I'd feel super guilty all the time"

• "I wasn't really raised with a moral framework... there was one rule... from my dad... 'don't be a dick'"

• My mum gave me a list: "One girlfriend at a time... never get a grade below a B..."

• Evolved ethical intuitions

• "We're an altruistic, really prosocial species... we're also a really evil, horrible species"

• A pre-disposition to moral strictness "I didn't swear for years... I basically haven't lied at all (maybe this is a bit of a lie)."

• Testing utilitarian on thought experiments "but if you followed me around all day I'd be acting very much the same way as my ancestors (except veganism)... family first, friends second, everyone else when I can & it's easy"

• Effective Altruism

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Jordi is an ethical vegan, a zoologist and a veganism content writer and consultant. He has been involved in different aspects of animal protection for many years. He became well-known for securing ethical veganism as a protected characteristic under the UK Equality Act 2010 in a landmark Employment Tribunal case. He has worked doing campaigning, lobbying, scientific research, undercover investigations and consultancy. He has authored several books, including “Ethical Vegan: A Personal and Political Journey to Change the World”.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:14 Jordi's Intro

• Adding new identities: Zoology, ethical vegan, activist, writer.

• Legal case re: ethical veganism becoming a protected philosophical belief in the UK

• Writing "The Ethical Vegan"

03:26 What's Real?

• Growing up in Catalonia as a Roman Catholic (like 99.9% of people there)

• Becoming atheist as a child despite "I never met one... I assumed that everybody else believed in the Catholic god"

• Other cultures seemed to be "pre-Catholic"

• Living under the oppression of Franco's fascist dictatorship "Catalan culture survived underground." "As a child... the message you get is 'this reality is not the real one'" "I have to maintain a reality against the reality around me" That led to questioning Catholicism

• Being bullied "The world was a completely hostile place to me... the country... the streets"

• Discovering the welcome of the animal world & nature "I could see there was something better"

• Catalan Catholicism was softer. More open to doubt than the fascist-friendly, Spanish version

• Internal struggle at 12 yrs "What happens if I don't believe"

• "Protestants tend to become agnostics. Catholics tend to become atheists."

• "I prayed to god to make me an atheist... so I can discover you by myself"

• Being anti-religious at first, but softening with age

• Secular Buddhism

• Formal institutional religions vs. more personal/flexible religions & spirituality

• "I built my philosophy from instinct"

• Naturalistic & mystical/spiritual connections with nature

• "That bark seems more important than what you were just saying" :)

• The same feeling of awe can be interpreted in spiritual or naturalistic ways

• Jordi's 13 hour lecture on "From Nothing to Everything - a Natural History of the Universe"

• "Reality is a subjective thing but also shared"... "Find the points in common"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Constantine is Professor of Philosophy at the University of Hertfordshire, Director of Lex Academic & a Fellow of the RSA. He describes his philosophical interests as “unfashionably broad, but I work primarily in the philosophy of action, moral psychology & interpersonal understanding. I also have an interest in the psychology of philosophy, as advanced by Hume, Nietzsche, & Wittgenstein.” He spent most of his twenties as a theatre director & playwright.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:15 Constantine's Intro

• "I'm looking forward to finding out if I'm a Sentientist or not"

• Teaching & researching philosophy

• Phil of action, Wittgenstein & Hume, virtue ethics, anti-vegan rhetoric

• Rejecting the separation betweeen human & non-human animals "Who are 'we' anyway?"

• The value of improving human worldviews (epistemology & ethics)

• Beliefs & values & reasons driving action

08:07 What's Real?

• Greek Orthodox Christian upbringing but "science was taken very seriously"

• Born in India, living in Zimbabwe

• Being placed in "Protestant" vs. "Catholic" or "Ethics" class

• Agnostic as a teenager

• Degree at Oxford in phil & theology "By the end of that degree I was atheist"

• "The more you read about it [the bible] as a human text..."

• Studying Christian moral reasoning & Nietzsche

• Wittgenstein & Kierkegaard

• "I'm not one of those Dawkins style atheists"

• "I just don't have this faith"

• "Everyday life was very naturalistic"

• Culturally Christian

• Those who stay religious but update the ethics

• "I think there are things we can't explain"

• Doubt as central to science & naturalism

• "I know the precise second I switched from agnostic to atheist" in a phil of religion lecture: "Just because it's possible something exists & you can't disprove it's existence doesn't mean you're agnostic about it... a 3 headed dragon in some other galaxy." Atheism & Adragonism :)

• Norms re: religious rituals/marriage

• Why do religious organisations get a pass re: basic ethics? (sexism, homophobia, abuse)?

• Atheist societies often suffer from similar problems

• The good that can come from religion

• Allen Ginsberg re: homophobia in Cuba

• Post-truth, QAnon, homeopathy, Flat Earth... epistemology fails

• Refusing medical treatment on religious grounds

• Vountary euthanasia

• Wearing the hijab

• Personal autonomy, but don't harm others

35:18 What (and who) matters?

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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I had the pleasure of talking about Sentientism on the Clearer Thinking podcast hosted by Spencer Greenberg. This is a cross-post of our episode so make sure you go subscribe to Clearer Thinking too. Clearer Thinking is a podcast about ideas that truly matter. If you enjoy learning about powerful, practical concepts and frameworks, or wish you had more deep, intellectual conversations in your life, then you’ll love this podcast!

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what (and who) matters?”

Sentientism answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

There's a full transcript here: https://clearerthinkingpodcast.com/episode/090

Show notes (thanks Josh!):

How can we encourage people to increase their critical thinking and reliance on evidence in the current information climate? What types of evidence "count" as valid, useful, or demonstrative? And what are the relative strengths and weaknesses of those types? Could someone reasonably come to believe just about anything, provided that they live through very specific sets of experiences? What does it mean to have a "naturalistic" epistemology? How does a philosophical disorder differ from a moral failure? Historically speaking, where does morality come from? Is moral circle expansion always good or praiseworthy? What sorts of entities deserve moral consideration?

Jamie Woodhouse works on the Sentientism worldview ("evidence, reason, and compassion for all sentient beings") — refining the philosophy, raising awareness of the idea, and building communities and movements around it. After a quarter century in the corporate world he is a now an independent consultant, coach, and volunteer. You can follow Jamie on Twitter at @JamieWoodhouse or email him at hello@sentientism.info.

Here are a few more links related to Sentientism:

• Sentientism YouTube channel
• Sentientism podcast
• Sentientism website
• Sentientism Facebook group
• All other places to find Sentientism (including Twitter, Reddit, Discord, and many others)

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Karthik is MD of the Fish Welfare Initiative, India. He has a background in animal welfare & ethical livelihoods. He is a PhD scholar at the National Academy of Legal Studies & Research in India & previously managed the university’s Animal Law Centre. While there, researched the unethical practices associated with industrialised egg production in India.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:36 Karthik's Intro

• Humility, curiosity & wonder

• Leading the Fish Welfare Initiative in India

• PhD studying freedom for queer people "I never had the opportunity growing up to fully express myself, be myself"

• How would we take decisions if we had more freedom & hope

04:01 What's Real?

• A deeply religious Hindu, upper class extended family in South India

• Becoming sceptical of biases like "darker skin meant some kind of bane from god"

• Religion operated in a deeply heteronormative way. Being queer fed the scepticism

• Women in the family with a deep empathy, including for animals

• Being one of the few male vegetarians (most of the women were)

• Brahmin caste dynamics & the "purity" of being vegetarian

• Caste discrimination

• Studying "science, technology & society" & the tools to unlearn the "cultural baggages" and to re-learn a different way re: animal rights

• A very difficult journey but "I would call myself an atheist now"

• "Hinduism had plenty of opportunities to explore queer life but it no longer does"

• Progressive & fundamentalist religious movements

• "Most of the bigotries we've subsumed into Hinduism are fairly modern - at least in the Indian context"

• "The most liberating thing for transgender people in this country has been to derive power from a lot of the [Hindu] rituals"... pilgramages

• A scientific way of finding meaning

• "Life is such an anomaly"

• "I find meaning in human actions"

• Going from being bullied to seeing his own students standing up to bullies

• "Homosexuality was recently decriminalised"

• "One of the arcs tending towards a better future"

• "You're automatically challenged if you have an atheistic worldview"

• "A lot of my relatives... think that I'm homosexual probably because I abandoned god"

• A partner pushed to the brink of suicide by their orthodox Muslim family because of their homosexuality

• "There's a caste angle to how animal cruelty works in this country"

• Animal sacrifice & killing vermin tasks fall to the lower castes

• "Enormous cruelty in the name of carrying on this legacy"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Barbara is emerita professor of anthropology at William & Mary and a freelance science writer and public speaker. The author of seven books, including the new Animals’ Best Friends: Putting Compassion to Work for Animals in Captivity and in the Wild, Barbara focuses on animal emotion and cognition, the ethics of our relationships with animals, and the evolutionary history of language, culture, and religion. Her book How Animals Grieve has been translated into 7 languages and her TED talk on animal love and grief has now received over 3 million views.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:39 Barbara’s Intro

• Biological anthropology, animal advocacy & writing
• 28 years in academia then freelance science writing & speaking
• Animal cognition & animal-human relationships
• Watching Jane Goodall & Dian Fossey go from scholarship to advocacy… doing fieldwork with apes…
• “Soon it became clear I wanted to work for animals as well as on animals”

05:05 What’s Real?

• Growing up in New Jersey
• Raised Presbyterian, sent to church & sunday school
• “It wasn’t really part of my identity”, more background & community
• “My parents didn’t question that there was a god, that god was… in charge of us.”
• “I fell into that… & then came college”
• First person in the family to go to college. “I arrived with my Bible – within 2 or 3 semesters that was kind of exploded”
• Taking theology & pre-med classes
• Agnostic then atheist
• Choosing evolution & science
• Mum at 88: “I wonder if what I thought all those years is really true… is there a god?”
• “I was never particularly interested in reconciling religion & science”
• Refusing money from The Templeton Foundation… “I don’t accept the claim that there’s no agenda”
• Religious ethical problems: Homophoba, sexism, fears of hell, human dominion
• Writing “Evolving God”. Finding the earliest roots of religious expression in non-human animal imagination/rule-following/empathy/perspective-taking
• Jane Goodall’s claim that chimpanzees feel awe & wonder
• The universal “religious” sense
• Frans de Waal
• “I think that I am relentlessly naturalistic”
• Working with primates
• “Concentrically my circles began to widen”

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Carter is Policy Director and Board Member of the Fair Start Movement, an organisation dedicated to giving every child a fair start in life. He is the author of Justice as a Fair Start in Life. Carter began his career as an Honors Program appointee to the U.S. Department of Justice. He later served as a legal adviser to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, in the national security law division. He wrote his thesis reformulating the right to have children under Jeremy Waldron, his extensive academic work on family planning has been published by Yale, Duke, and Northwestern Universities, as well as in peer-reviewed pieces.. He has served on the Steering Committee of the Population Ethics and Policy Research Project and was a Visiting Scholar at the Uehiro Center, both at the University of Oxford. He has taught at several law schools in the U.S., served as a peer reviewer for the journal Bioethics, and most recently managed an animal protection strategic impact litigation program.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:21 Carter's Intro

• Fair Start Movement: Shifting family planning from prioritising the desires of parents to prioritising the needs of future children

• Achieving the SDGs

• A future of 4-6 billion humans vs. 12-14 billion

• Economic growth & inequity & ecosystem factors

• The right to a fair start in life

03:54 What's Real?

• Naturalistically based civil rights

• Rejecting the flawed "science" used to justify discrimination

• Truth & justice

• "Scientific justifications for the denigrations of non-humans also fell apart under scrutiny"

• Reading Peter Singer. Applying civil rights lessons to animal rights

• Exploring the human population issue

• Suffering, flourishing & relative autonomy

• Climate/environment limitations on autonomy & flourishing

• "Science had become god" & a naturalistic family

• "What we've learned about non-human cognition really should embarrass decades & decades of human living as completely unethical"

• "It's our children, grandchildren &great-grandchildren that will suffer the most because we've failed to respect the non-human world"

• Nagel's "View from nowhere"... "we all mutually agree to avoid that pain... that doesn't require supernatural grounding"

• Systemic failures in law & early education

14:25 What Matters?

• Naturalistic ethics

• Social contract ethics

• "Would you consent to that?"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Dr. Richard Firth-Godbehere PhD is one of the world’s leading experts on disgust and emotions. He is an independent researcher and consultant in the history, language, science & philosophy of emotions & an honorary research fellow at the centre for the history of the emotions, Queen Mary University of London. Richard’s first book, "A Human History of Emotions" (also known as "Homo Emoticus") will soon be published in over a dozen languages in countries ranging from Japan to the USA, from Australia to Brazil.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:27 Richard's Intro

• The history of human emotions

• Academia & public engagement

• History "never talked about feelings" but wars start "because someone gets annoyed"

• You can't really separate emotion & rationality "You cannot make a decision unless you feel something"

• Interdisciplinary

06:00 What's Real?

• Lapsed Catholic mother & an "its all bloody rubbish-arian" father

• Scientific family; Doctors, engineers, nurses. "We didn't go into the seminary"

• Joining mum in a spiritual phase. Tarot, mediums, psychics...

• Realising you could "read people" without tarot

• "Yeh - this is a load of rubbish"

• "Firmly atheist". The incoherence of "god". "If it's timeless it doesn't exist anywhen, if it's spaceless it doesn't exist anywhere"

• "Every answer... has come down firmly not on the side of the supernatural"

• "In a world where we have a billion HD cameras... why do we only see blurry photographs [of ghosts]?"

• Hume's scepticism

• The Kalam Cosmological Argument "doesn't get you back to god... it could have been a farting space pixie!"

• "People assume emotions mean 'irrational'"

• Science is driven by excitement, wonder, passion & curiosity

• "The idea that science is people in lab coats with no feelings is completely wrong"

• "Emotion is a driver & part of decision-making"

• "The Stoics didn't suppress their emotions, they used them!"

19:10 What (& Who) Matters?

• Ethics comes from us being an evolved group animal. "If we all went around stabbing each other we wouldn't be here"

• The Golden Rule

• Secular Humanism

• Well-being for humans & beyond

• "I have a real problem with 'everyone must be happy!'"

• Negative emotions (e.g. appropriate fear) can help wellbeing

• Good/bad forms of hate & love

• The harm of "toxic happiness." It's OK to feel down

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

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Steve (stevesapontzis.com) is professor emeritus of philosophy at California State University, East Bay. He specialises in animal ethics, environmental ethics & meta-ethics. He was co-founder in 1985 of Between the Species: A Journal of Ethics & served as its initial co-editor. Steve was a member of the board of the American Philosophical Quarterly. In 1983, Steve founded, with his wife Jeanne, the Hayward Friends of Animals Humane Society. They now operate Second Chance, Helping the Pets of People in Need, in California. Steve wrote the books "Morals, Reason & Animals" & "Subjective Morals" & edited Food for Thought: The Debate over Eating Meat.

I'm afraid the audio is patchy - I should have organised a better mic for Steve - sorry! If you struggle to follow our conversation on the podcast, please find episode 97 here on the Sentientism YouTube channel where I've edited a complete transcript as subtitles. Don't forget to subscribe while you're there! I'll post that transcript on Sentientism.info too for those who would prefer just to read.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:14 Steve's Intro

• Growing up in Salt Lake City to French/Greek parents

• Greek Orthodox & Methodist Christian

• Order of the Cross (vegetarian)

• Going vegetarian as a teenager

• Philosophy at Rice University, Texas

• Louis Mackey & Kierkegaard

• University of Paris & existentialism & Merleau Ponty

• PhD at Yale

• Cal State

• Retirement

• Hayward Friends of Animals & Second Chance charities

• Singer's Animal Liberation "The only philosophy book with a cookbook at the end"

• Teaching animal ethics, ethical theory, environmental ethics

9:19 What's Real?

• Going through the motions at church

• "I didn't really believe in god it was not something that appealed to me whatever."

• "There's so much suffering in the world."

• The limits of science in understanding reality "I think the meaning of a poem is something that's real"

• "Reality is very complicated and things are real in I think a wide variety of ways"

15:47 What (& Who) Matters?

• Writing "Subjective Morals"

• "morals are created by human beings"

• The self-centred and the other-social

• "morals develop in order to reinforce the strength of our other social motivations"

• "there's no limitation to empathy"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

View Details

Coral is an aspiring writer, an animal rescue volunteer/donor & runs a bunny boarding & grooming business. She is an ex-Mormon atheist & a "meat & potatoes girl" turned vegan. Find Coral & her content at: @atheist_vegan, & wattpad.com/user/VCoralSandsV & inkitt.com/veganatheist & on YouTube.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome & why Sentientism is important

02:39 "Vegan Atheist Coral"'s Intro

• A Mormon, military family

• Joining the Coastguard

• From "A meat & potatoes girl" to vegan & animal rescue

• From religious to "spiritual" to agnostic/atheist

• JoinTheConversation & Street Epistemology

• Stories with morals. Star Trek

11:55 What's Real?

• Growing up Mormon (yet another "one true church")

• "It encompasses every bit of your life"

• 4 hours in church then 2 more in "school" every Sunday

• "Most of my childhood I felt like I was in church"

• Strong emphasis on family, but "very good at shunning" if you don't believe

• Internal self-pressure: "You're constantly measuring yourself against what you think Jesus would want you to do"

• Joseph Smith & the golden plates

• The old & new Bible testaments superceded by The Book of Mormon

• The trinity, creationism, proselytising

• Fundamentalist & progressive Mormons

• Managing the public perception of Mormonism (e.g. modesty dress codes)

• Sending children on missions. Isolating from families & friends to reinforce church teachings

• "The other people you're on the mission with are almost snitches"

• Church sees friends & even own parents as potential threats

• Pressured to speak to elders about doubts "testimony" as long as they're resolved in favour of the church

• Moving from the west coast to Alabama. Culture shock

• Growing up with a naievety about race & racism

• The shock of a new school "We pray here"

• "I go to the one true church & they're all wrong"

• Parents drifting away from the church due to accusations about a minister

• Studying other religions... "there has to be an ultimate truth"

• Some family are still Mormon

• Asking "what do we know & how do we know?", exploring philosophy (brain in a vat, The Matrix), re-evaluating "the god question"

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info and on YouTube.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at Sentientism.info. Join our "I'm a Sentientist" wall via this simple form.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is here on FaceBook. Come join us there!

Thanks Graham.

View Details

Helen (@hkopnina) is Senior Lecturer in Sustainable Business at the University of Northumbria & also lectures at The Hague University. Her research focuses on environmental education, biodiversity & corporate sustainability.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:12 Helen's Intro

02:49 What's Real?

• The passage to caring about ecosystems for many ecocentrists was through a connection to individual animals

• Growing up atheist "just like everybody else in the Soviet Union" in Moscow

• Parents who were "wild about wilderness"

• Visiting Siberia "in the summer & without gulags"

• "I loved fairy tales" but firmly naturalistic

• "I'm still 99% atheist with 1% reserved for doubt"

• Political dissident parents, pushing back on ideology

• "When you don't have religion you create a religion yourself - & that was communism... we had Lenin & Marx as our gods..."

• Lenin, Marx & Engels as a "holy trinity"?

• "My parents instructed me that it was bullshit"

• Naturalistic ontology (no supernatural) & epistemology (use evidence & reason)

• Flat earth, anti-vaxx, one party states...