Kindreds: Recent Episodes
Katey Zeh and Ashley Peterson
A podcast for soul sisters, where we talk all things faith, feminism, and friendship from our homes in the South.
In this final episode of Kindreds, Ashley and Katey talk about their 7 years of creating the podcast, what it has meant to them, and why they decided it was time to end the show.
Resources
"Are You in the Portal?" by Anne Helen Peterson
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
What does being Christian even mean anyway? Who gets to decide what a Christian is? That's what we discuss in this episode and how we've evolved in our understanding of how the label "Christian" feels to us. We talk about evangelicalism, Jesus, deconstruction, Christian nationalism, and how we understand our ever-changing spirituality these days. In short, it's complicated.
We will be taking a break from recording episodes this fall. Stay tuned for more in our "Tackling the Taboo" series toward the end of 2023!
What do the Bachelor, Love is Blind, the Ultimatum, and all of the other competition dating reality TV shows have in common? Really problematic narratives about marriage! We break down some of our most "precious illusions" (thanks, Alanis Morissette) about finding "the one," tying the knot, and having a "successful" marriage. We discuss the conveyor belt narratives that leave so many of us miserable, dissatisfied, and lost in the relationships we are told will fulfill us completely.
We take a break from our Tackling the Taboo series to celebrate the beginning of summer by talking about what we’re enjoying these days. We talk about some of the books, movies, creative projects, and practices that we are loving right now.Full shownotes: https://kindredspodcast.com/2023/06/05/episode-74-what-were-enjoying-these-days/
Being a parent of an only child comes with all kinds of baggage and inappropriate comments and questions. We discuss the ways that only children are stigmatized and dispel some of the cultural myths surrounding this family structure. Shownotes: https://kindredspodcast.com/2023/05/08/episode-73-tackling-taboo-one-and-done/
CW: we discuss alcohol and drinking on this episode. How has our relationship with alcohol changed over the course of our lives? And are "wine moms" really a thing or are we just failing parents of young children?Shownotes https://kindredspodcast.com/2023/02/27/episode-72-tackling-taboo-are-we-wine-moms/
Welcome to our seventh year of recording Kindreds! This year we are tackling some taboo topics that until now we were a little too fearful to talk about on the show at the length. This episode we start a conversation about sex and sexuality with a focus on what we learned at church, school, and in the culture as young people and how we're unlearning and re-educating ourselves about sex and sexuality in our 30s.
We wrap up 2022 with some life updates from the fall, some of our favorite things from the year, and how we are making the end of this year. And of course, we included our annual Spotify playlist.Link to playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4aPDl74PcN9dAKSVblUCFr?si=0a9aba471abd446bShownotes: https://kindredspodcast.com/2022/12/19/episode-70-wrapping-up-2022/
We explore the age-old question of what happens when we die. We return to our evangelical roots and discuss theologies of salvation, atonement, and baptism—and how those things are portrayed in church culture (hell house, anyone?). Is Hell even a biblical concept at all? Then we move into talking about where we land these days. In short, we have a lot of questions, and we’re just fine with that.
What does it mean to heal from grief? Is it something we do alone, or is healing a communal effort? What does support look like for grieving people, and where do we go for that support? How do we support people we love who are grieving? These are some of the things we talk about in this second conversation about grief.
Some of the areas we discuss are the ways that churches show up (and don’t) when we are suffering a loss, how grief connects to the rituals of different religious seasons and practices, and some of the worst things people say in the face of a person’s loss.
Resources: How to Process our Collective Grief (https://www.yesmagazine.org/opinion/2022/06/23/how-to-process-our-collective-grief) Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times by Katherine May (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/52623750-wintering) Marked by Covid (https://www.markedbycovid.com/) Black Liturgies on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/blackliturgies/)
For a long time we’ve been saying that we need to record an episode about this heavy topic, but we’ve just been too mired in it ourselves to talk about it publicly. We’re finally ready, and we have so much to say that we’re making it a two-parter.
In this episode we talk about what exactly grief is, what some of the different types are, and how no matter the source, your grief is valid.
Things We Mention: Brene Brown's Atlas of the Heart Columbia Center for Complicated Grief Webinar: Healing the Brain After Loss
We talk about our reactions to the post-Roe reality that we are making our way through, how we are navigating our own grief journeys this year, and what we are turning to for comfort in these hard days. Ashley shares about the compounded grief her family is experiencing, and Katey shares about coming out about being queer.
Resources We Mention: -AbortionsWelcome.org, our pro-choice spiritual companion for before, during, and after abortion -National Network of Abortion Funds -ineedana.com for abortion seekers -Emergent Strategy by adrienne marie brown
Our Comforts - Rebecca Campbell's community Sancutary - Hacks on HBO - Harry Styles's album, Harry's House
Katey and Ashley share life updates, some big lows and some inspiring highs, and they share some of their inspiring, fun reads on their currently-reading lists: The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, Come As You Are, The Once and Future Witches, and The Firekeeper's Daughter.
Be sure to check out www.abortionswelcome.org and pick up a copy of Katey's book A Complicated Choice at our online bookstore! https://bookshop.org/shop/kindreds
Ashley sits down with Katey to discuss her new book A Complicated Choice: Making Space for Grief and Healing in the Pro-Choice Movement. We talk about how this wasn't the book Katey intended to write, how the process of writing it taught her a lot about burnout, and how we can all learn to be more compassionate in the ways that we talk about abortion, especially in how we show up for people who are experiencing it.
Buy the book: www.bookshop.org/shop/kindreds
Check out the show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2022/02/16/episode-64-a-complicated-choice-by-katey-zeh/
What would it look like to meet the full human needs of people who experience abortion? That's what this episode is all about. Ashley and Katey talk about their year-long joint effort to create Abortions Welcome, a virtual space dedicated to providing spiritual support and accurate information to anyone who is preparing for, experiencing, or processing an abortion.
We also talk about Katey's new book A Complicated Choice: Making Space for Grief and Healing in the Pro-Choice Movement. This story-telling book explores the personal and systemic nuance of abortion and calls on people of faith to engage in sacred listening and compassionate response.
Buy Katey's Book: https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9781506473499/A-Complicated-Choice
We take a look at the last year(what we refer to as 2020 Part 2), revisit the joys and the sorrows, and share what's next for us.
Check out our 2021 playlist on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4HajWmGv01HyNcRfFDFeM5?si=2579bcd8e791457f.
Quick note: If you haven’t listened yet to episode 60 with Sheila Katz, the CEO of the National Council of Jewish Women, about religious freedom, reproductive rights and abortion access, and anti-Semitism, go back and check it out.
Building off of our last episode about anti-Semitism, we take on the topic of Christian hegemony and how pervasive it is in our culture, from workplaces to schools to the ways we celebrate milestones. We also talk specifically about the ways anti-Judaism has shaped the interpretation of Christian sacred texts that reinforce anti-Semitism.
We wrap up the episode with some practical ideas for how to dismantle Christian supremacy in our thinking and practices as well as how to learn more about religious traditions that are different from our own.
We welcome our friend and colleague, Sheila Katz, to the show.
Sheila Katz is the CEO of the National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW), a network of 180,000 advocates across the U.S. and Israel advancing the rights of women, children, and families. Since her start as CEO, Sheila has overseen the founding of the “Rabbis for Repro” campaign, building a network of over 1,000 Rabbis and Jewish clergy promoting reproductive health, rights, and justice. Additionally, under Sheila’s leadership, NCJW has made advancing anti-racism efforts at the national and local levels a priority, showing the intersectionality of racial justice in all of the organization’s main advocacy issues.
We talk about religious freedom, abortion access, and the rise of antisemitism in the United States.
We interview author Meghan Tschanz, author of a new book entitled Women Rising: Learning to Listen, Reclaiming Our Voice.
Meghan is a writer, speaker, and former missionary who is passionate about empowering women and reclaiming feminism for the Christian faith. She's a prolific blogger, host of the Faith and Feminism podcast, and an avid traveler. She and her husband, Dustin, live in northeast Georgia.
Meghan's Website: https://www.meghantschanz.com/
Follow her on Twitter: @meghantschanz
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/meghantschanz/
We sit down with friend of the pod and Intuition Coach Ashley Easter about how to access our intuition, how to discern our intuitive voice, and how the science makes it all make sense.
Check out Ashley's upcoming class Intuitive AF, May 31-June 2nd. https://www.ashleyeaster.com/intuitiveaf
Check out her free Ego vs. Intuition toolkit: https://www.ashleyeaster.com/toolkit
And check out her course Intuition Mastery: https://www.ashleyeaster.com/intuition-mastery
Find Ashley on the internet: http://www.ashleyeaster.com/links
We get real about burnout, how it shows up for us professionally and personally, who is most at risk, and how we are finding ways to move through it: with a lot of compassion, self-love, and some good professional help.
Resources we mention:
Coaching with Kerry Connelly (https://www.mysticjusticepodcast.com/welcome)
Daring Compassion Movement Chaplaincy (https://www.faithmattersnetwork.org/daringcompassion)
Vicarious Traumatization (https://proqol.org/uploads/VT_Handout_3.2018.pdf)
Compassion Fatigue (http://www.compassionfatigue.org/index.html)
Burnout Symptoms (https://traumastewardship.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/when-experiencing-overrwhelm-and-trauma-trauma-stewardship-institute.pdf )
We speak with author Sue Monk Kidd about The Book of Longings, a story of an ancient woman claiming her calling to speak truth. We also talk about our sacred practices outside of patriarchal religion and what spiritual community looks like outside of the institutional church. This is a conversation you will not want to miss.
The Book of Longings is now available in paperback. We encourage you to pick up a copy at your favorite independent bookstore or on Bookshop.org.
Episode Summary: We take on one of the big questions of the Christian faith: who is Jesus (to us)? We go back to childhood nativity stories and Easter mornings and bring it to current day, exploring everything we were taught about Jesus the baby, the man, and the divine savior. We talk about theology, pop culture, the pressure to fit in, what salvation is al about, and what it means for us to follow Jesus now (or not).
Full show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2021/02/18/episode-55-who-jesus-is-to-us/
We look over the last (nearly) four years of recording, share some of our favorite moments in podcasting and in life, and talk about our plans for 2021.
We're going to focus on what we do best: looking at the intersections of faith and feminism. We want to talk aboutJesus and who he is to us, what do we mean when we say Christian supremacy, what does liberation mean for ourselves and for everyone? We want to talk about compassion fatigue and burnout, accountability and cancel culture and leave space for some fun stuff too. Stay tuned.
As always, we’d love to hear from you, either on our Instagram (@kindredspodcast) or send us an email.
Our 2020 Spotify playlist is up! Check it out. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/03rK0YYMxtGp8xp4hmiu7i
Special thanks to our newest patron, Adelaide, and a bit thanks to all of our patrons who keep the show going. Sign up on www.patreon.com/kindreds.
We answer these big questions from y'all: 1. Magic vs miracles vs science. Is it all the same, just different names?
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How can you talk to someone who is so entrenched in right-wing media as to deny reality?
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Who is your new favorite elected official and why?
And we share our 2020 faves like Schitt's Creek, The OA, The City We Became, and a particularly delightful and moving episode of the Reply All podcast.
We’d love to hear from you, either on our Instagram @kindredspodcast, or send us an email.
See ya in 2021!
"I exist in a body." This sounds so simple, but it's actually something that Ashley and Katey have recently been exploring and owning. Maybe you can relate. Do you feel like you're just a talking head? Do you feel like the only way to know something is in your mind? Were you taught your body wasn't to be trusted? You'll want to tune into our conversation about how to reconnect body + mind + spirit.
Full show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/11/13/episode-52-embodiment-waking-up-to-our-bodies/
Some fun news to start: Sue Monk Kidd shared about our show on her Instagram! Welcome to our new listeners who found us through her post. We’re glad to have you.
Honestly, we tried two other times to record an episode, and we finally got the space and energy to talk about what’s getting us through this ever-changing and wild time. We get real about boundaries, schedules, therapy, lowering our expectations, and being honest with ourselves.
And we talk about some fun things that are bringing us everything from comfort and distraction to joy and levity. Here’s what has been getting us through.
The full show notes are here: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/10/08/episode-51-whats-getting-us-through
Y’all probably know how much we love Sue Monk Kidd from some of our previous episodes, but this time we dive into our deep appreciation of her journey exploring the divine feminine through all of her books, and in particular her latest book The Book of Longings.
We talk about Ana, the fictional wife of Jesus, and how her prayer has rekindled our passion for exploring the divine within ourselves.
http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/09/09/kindreds-picks-the-book-of-longings/
We take it way back to childhood...and back to the present with a discussion of The Babysitters Club, both the book series from the '90s and the Netflix adaption. We also share our current struggles with childcare, particularly in the times of COVID-19.
http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/08/10/kindreds-picks-the-babysitters-club/
Many of our public libraries, at least the buildings, have been closed for the last few months which has made us mindful of just how much we love them. What might our libraries have to do with defunding the police?
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/07/27/episode-48-what-do-libraries-have-to-do-with-police-abolition/
Kindreds Picks is where we talk about anything we didn't have time to mention on the show. This episode we are exploring the concept of disenfranchised grief and sharing wisdom from Captain Awkward's online advice column.
Who gets to be creative? What does your creative process look like? And how is creativity different from productivity? We discuss discovering process art and free writing, and we talk about what gets in the way of creativity--and how we overcome it.
Shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/06/15/episode-47-creativity/
Black Lives Matter. Right now, police brutality, white supremacy, and state-sanctioned militarism are on full display in this country, and we will not be silent. Not now, not ever.
We say their names: Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and Tony McDade, and countless others. Their lives matter. And at Kindreds, we are committed to doing the work of anti-racism-- and dismantling white supremacy--in our own lives, in our work as non-profit leaders, and on this show.
Let's get to work.
On Kindreds Picks, we discuss some of our favorite recommendations that we didn’t have time to get to in our regular episode.
Ashley’s Pick: Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice
After studying the Lenten guide Drawing Closer to Creator and Creation: And Indigenous Journey Through Lent, Ashley shares about the Eloheh Center, co-founded by Edith and Randy Woodley in 1999 out of concern that neither the government nor the church was addressing the many needs in Native American communities.
The Woodleys believe that our response to climate change should be rooted in learning from those who have long practiced a value for creation and listened to the voice of Creator in this area. For decades, Randy and Edith Woodley have cultivated Eloheh as a community, farm, seed bank, and learning center. For over 30 years, the Woodleys have been teaching Native and non-Native peoples to deepen their commitment to preserving humanity’s role as good earth-keepers by understanding Creator’s invitation to harmony and shalom. Through their summits, camps, ceremony, conferences and teachings, the Woodleys offer an opportunity for all to learn a new way to live on the land and respond to the climate crisis. Learn more at eloheh.org.
Katey’s Pick: The Intuitive Way by Penney Pierce
Similar in style to The Artist's Way, The Intuitive Way is a workbook with lessons and exercises designed to help you hone in in on and develop your inner wisdom. It has questions to journal, meditations to practice, and free writing prompts all around how we experience that sense of knowing. For example, the book asks you to think about the way that you recall one of your favorite experiences in the past. Do you hear it most? See it? Feel it? Even smell it?
If you’re looking for something to help you tune into your inner guide, pick up The Intuitive Way.
What does community look like when we can’t be in person? How do we see community changing and evolving in our lives right now, and how might we reimagine community for the future? We talk about the upsides and downsides of virtual community, navigating work online, and our hopes for how the lessons of COVID-19 will shape us for the better.
Full shownotes at: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/05/13/episode-45-reimagining-community/
On Kindreds Picks, we discuss some of our favorite recommendations that we didn’t have time to get to in our regular episode. This episode we discuss Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid and the Hulu adaption of Little Fires Everywhere by Celeste Ng.
Have you been questioning the place of productivity in your life or in our culture as a whole? Is productivity something you cling to or repel from in times of stress? Ashley and Katey are rethinking their relationships with getting things done and how self-quarantining has impacted their feelings about our cultural obsession with output and efficiency. We explore the ways that white supremacy culture show up in our work and faith circles in ways that we often fail to recognize and share a bit about the thoughtful leaders who are showing us a new way of being in the world that isn't all about being productive.
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/04/14/episode-44-the-cult-of-productivity/
In the midst of the Covid-19 pandemic, we take a time out from our regular podcast schedule to talk about how we're coping (and not), how we're stayed connected with ourselves and one another in the age of physical distancing, and how we're more committed than ever to dismantling the patriarchy.
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/03/23/episode-43-in-this-together/
Do you believe in soul mates? In this episode we explore the notion of soul mates, both the more common understandings in terms of romantic partnerships and the more expansive ideas of kindred spirits and soul families.
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/03/16/episode-42-soul-mates-or-soul-families/
On Kindreds Picks, we discuss some of our favorite recommendations that we didn’t have time to get to in our regular episode. This episode Katey recommends Richard Rohr's The Universal Christ and Ashely shares about the website MommaStrong.
Full shownotes http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/03/02/kindreds-picks-the-universal-christ-and-mommastrong/
The stats don't lie. • 1 in 4 U.S. women will have an abortion by the time she turns 45. • Up to 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage. • 10% of all couples experience some form of infertility. Reproductive loss is common. Incredibly common. So why don't we talk about it more? Because we're uncomfortable with embodiment. With death. With grief. And so in our silence, we isolate those who are suffering in solitude. That's why we decided to dedicate this episode to reproductive loss: to explain what it is (it's way more than miscarriage) and share ways to journey alongside those who are hurting. We can't make anyone's grief go away, but we can help someone feel less alone.
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/02/17/episode-41-reproductive-loss/
We discuss some of our favorite recommendations that we didn’t have time to get to in our regular episode on mysticism and inner wisdom.
Ashley's Pick
E-book: Christ Our Black Mother Speaks by Christena Cleveland, activist and public theologian, director of the Center for Justice and Renewal. This is a collection of art, essays, questions and practices to deepen our connection to the Dark Divine Feminine.
http://www.christenacleveland.com/shop/christourblackmotherspeaks
Katey's Pick
Guided Meditation: Meeting an Unexpected Healing Guide by Michael Sealey. "This hypnotic sleep meditation will allow you to take an inner journey into your self awareness and deepest consciousness, where you will imagine meeting a surprising type of healing guide, who will bring you many positive messages and insights into your total self healing - in mind, body, and spirit."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfKSOasvRL8&t=17s
Visit www.kindredspodcast.com for more information.
Look out for our full-length episode on reproductive loss coming in a few weeks.
Have you ever been interested in the witchy side of spirituality? You’re in luck! We are talking all about the mystical aspects of our spirituality that we don’t usually tap into during traditional religious services. How do we go about discovering our inner voice? And when we’ve uncovered it, how do we honor it?
In this episode we explore different definitions of mysticism, distinguish it from the term “New Age, ” and talk about how we can all be mystics. We look into ancient sacred texts that didn’t make it into the Christian canon, share our thoughts on the gaining popularity of witchcraft, and try to connect the dots between mysticism, sexism, and racism.
For the full shownotes, visit http://kindredspodcast.com/2020/01/20/episode-40-mysticism-and-inner-wisdom/
We absolutely love our listeners, and that's why we dedicate our last episode of the year to your questions, comments, and ideas. This one is chock full of listener thoughtfulness--way more than we could fit into a single episode! But, we did our best to weigh in on a number of topics including deconstructing and reconstructing our faith, reclaiming "blessed" as a theological term, and the complexities surrounding reproductive dignity and freedom, including miscarriage, adoption, and child marriage.
We also do a quick recap of where we were at the beginning of this decade and how we're ending it now. (Hint: we're rocking it!)
Blessed. What about this public display of gratitude makes us cringe? In this episode about gratitude, Ashley and Katey share their thoughts on the perfunctory “thank you” we were taught as kids, what blessings are all about, and the performative nature of #blessed.
It goes without saying, but in this season of giving thanks, we are incredibly thankful for our patrons, listeners, and supporters. Y’all are the best! (Want to help us keep making new episodes? Head on over to patreon.com/kindreds to support us today.)
Check out the full show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/11/26/episode-38-gratitude-blessed-and-blessings/
In recognition of Domestic Violence Awareness month, we discuss gender-based violence and what we can do to end it. GBV can take many forms, affects marginalized groups at higher rates, and starts when folks are young. We talk about how difficult it can be for survivors to come forward, how the church has failed survivors, and how we can access resources to help us become better advocates for ending GBV in all its forms.
For the full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/10/31/episode-37-ending-gender-based-violence/
From "life-hacking" productivity and personality tests, to relationship advice gurus and Christian based self-improvement, the genre of self-help is vast and wide. In this episode we dive into the self-help atmosphere with reflections on some of the best self-help books we've read, tried, and continue to live by. We also explore the ways in which we have been taught that self-help is and isn't compatible with faith.
Read the full show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/09/30/episode-37-adventures-in-self-help/
What brings joy, even for a moment? What do we turn to when life is getting us down? Ashley and Katey share some of their favorite things, from books and podcasts to hair towels and face sprays, that are keeping them going during a tough season of work stress, parenting woes, and political chaos.
Abortion. We're talking all about it in this episode. We dive into the history of Christianity and abortion and how that showed up in our church upbringings. We discuss the state of abortion access today and how abortion fits within the broader framework of reproductive justice. And, we talk about how we are Christians who support abortion and why we need to talk about it more.
Full show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/07/29/episode-34-the-abortion-episode/
As the old saying goes, "It's lonely at the top." We explore life as non-profit executive directors and how we cope with the isolation and pressure of being the primary decision-makers for our organizations. We also talk about what makes leadership awesome and what strategies we use to sustain their work at the top. (Big shout out to Shine Theory!) And of course, we talk about the models of strong female leadership we saw (or didn't see) in church and beyond.
On this special episode Ashley interviews Katey about her newly released book Women Rise Up: Sacred Stories of Resistance for Today's Revolution. It's a timely take on the tenacious women of the Bible and a fresh look at how to discuss ancient texts in the context of today's struggle for gender justice
Women Rise Up is a great option for summer book clubs, bible studies, and youth group gatherings. There's even a free discussion guide available on Katey's website. www.kateyzeh.com/women-rise-up
We honor the legacy of Rachel Held Evans who touched us both with her writing and her generous spirit. We are so saddened by her tragic death, and we are challenged to honor her legacy of curiosity, generosity, and community in the ways that we move through the world.
Read the full show notes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/05/22/episode-32-women-rise-up/
On this episode we ask, "Can men even be feminists? And if they can, why would they want to be feminists?" We talk about patriarchy, toxic and tender masculinities, and displays of allyship from men and boys that we celebrate.
For the full show notes, visit http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/04/23/episode-31-men-and-feminism/
This episode is all about getting older. We talk about how old we are now (34 and 35, respectively), how we feel about being in our thirties, what our bodies are like, what we’re afraid of and excited about around getting older, and what advice we’d give our younger selves.
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/03/11/episode-30-aging-into-our-thirties/
What is white feminism, and why is it a problem? In this episode we discuss our own revelations about white feminism, why it's problematic, and how white women can take active steps towards allyship.
Full shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2019/02/13/episode-29-white-feminism/
In our final episode of 2018 we answer your questions!
Why Church? What do we mean by "church home"? Do you choose friends just like you? Or do opposites attract? Would you ever consider interviewing a conservative white woman on the show? We also share some of our favorite Advent resources
“Angels We Have Heard on High by our friend Rev. Elizabeth Henry on the Our Bible App "Poor, Young, and Pregnant: Christmas Meditations on Maternal Health," written by Katey! What We're Reading and Listening To
Katey devoured See Me Naked: Stories of Sexual Exile in American Christianity by Amy Frykholm. Each chapter is a story of a person struggling to reconcile their faith and their sexuality, and in the midst of great pain, there is also hope and redemption.
Both Katey and Ashley binge-listened to The Dream podcast about multi-level marketing companies--and their close ties to various faith communities. It would be great for a long car ride.
Ashley's favorite book this year was Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi. It begins in West Africa, and the book follows the progeny of two sisters, one who was sold into slavery and went to America and the other who stayed in Africa. It’s a challenging book, but incredibly powerful.
That's it for 2019! We'll be back in February with a brand new episode. In the meantime, keep in touch by sending us an email at team@kindredspodcast.com.
Read the full shownotes at http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/12/19/episode-28-our-listener-request-episode/.
On this episode we work on expanding our understanding of gender by breaking free of the gender binary. Gender is so embedded in our culture that we forget that it's a construct rather than a given. We're thrilled to have our friend Dr. Robyn Henderson-Espinoza--a Latinx scholar, queer activist, and public theologian--join us for a conversation about gender, theology, and imagination.
We start by defining some key terms: cisgender, transgender, and non-binary. We pulled them from the Trans Student Educational Resources--find these definitions and many others on their site, transstudent.org.
Follow Dr. Robyn on Twitter (@irboyn), Instagram (@irobyn), and on their website, irobyn.com.
What We're Reading and Listening To
Katey has been looking for books to share with her young daughter, and here are a few to check out.
Julián Is a Mermaid by Jessica Love. Explores tension of gender expression and family.
Neither by Airlie Anderson. Disrupts the binary.
Sparkle Boy by Lesléa Newman. Celebrates gender expression.
How to Be a Girl is a podcast that Ashley loves and has recommended in the past. The host is the mother of a trans daughter, and she shares about the journey that they embark on as her daughter learns to navigate the world as a trans girl.
Kindreds of the Moment
The National Center for Transgender Equality is the nation's leading social justice advocacy organization winning life-saving change for transgender people. In addition to their public advocacy work, the Center has some helpful resources on understanding non-binary gender identity and how to support and respect folks who identify as non-binary:
-You don’t have to understand what it means for someone to be non-binary to respect them. -Use the name a person asks you to use. -Try not to make any assumptions about people’s gender. -If you’re not sure what pronouns someone uses, ask. -Advocate for non-binary friendly policies. -Understand that, for many non-binary people, figuring out which bathroom to use can be challenging. -Talk to non-binary people to learn more about who they are.
Visit them at transequality.org.
Read the full show notes at http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/11/28/episode-27-reimagining-the-binary-gender-identity-and-expression-with-dr-robyn-henderson-espinoza/
Announcement: Our final episode of 2018 will be our Listener Request Episode, so keep sending us your questions and suggestions for topics you’d like us to address! You can send us a quick email at team@kindredspodcast.com
Building on our last episode about money, we're focusing this episode on the big picture of money and the church. Where do our charitable contributions to churches--$83 BILLION every year--"go"? Do we know what organizations and charities our faith-based organizations support? Should we care?
We talk about religion disguised as health care (i.e. crisis pregnancy centers), the trouble with disaster relief efforts (Ashley talks about her experience after Hurricane Katrina), and why our contributions of goods can cause organizations more headaches than help.
Here are some of our personal tips for giving better:
- Give to local organizations where you have the opportunity to build relationships with the staff, volunteers, and clients.
- Follow the local organizers after a disaster. Social media can often point the way.
- Resist the urge to give stuff unless it’s requested. If you must give, contribute the unsexy stuff--adult diapers, underwear, socks, tampons, condoms, etc.
What We're Reading and Listening To
Ashley has been devouring season 3 of the Serial podcast and as an accompaniment, she's been reading along with the SerialLand blog, which is researched and written by Rebecca Maurer, an attorney who lives and works in Cleveland.
Katey came across the article “Making Hunger History: Komal Ahmad” in the October issue of Experience Life magazine. Read about Kamal's success in creating effective systems for distributing leftover food to the people who need it.
Kindreds of the Moment Circle of Health International (COHI), a nonprofit based in Austin, Texas, aligns itself with local, community based organizations led and powered by women to assist in disaster relief efforts. They are currently raising $50,000 to help with Hurricane Michael relief to:
Hire a team of evacuee women to coordinate COHI's relief efforts within the shelters Provide cash grants to evacuees to cover emergency housing and transportation costs for vulnerable women and children who've lost their homes and vehicles in the storm Provide cash grants to evacuees to cover costs associated with labor and delivery support and medical care for medically fragile kids
To donate visit cohintl.org. Do something good!
Visit kindredspodcast.com for the full show notes.
Announcement: Our next Patreon supporter to pledge at the $7+ level will receive a free copy of Linda Kay Klein's Pure. Make a pledge today on our Patreon page. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show. www.patreon.com/kindreds
Money. How do we earn it, spend it, and save it? On this episode Ashley and Katey talk about the messages we got about money in childhood from family and church and how those beliefs have evolved. We discuss scarcity, secrecy, and stewardship. Plus, what was Jesus really saying about money when he talked about the camel going through the eye of a needle?
What We're Reading and Listening To
Katey is following Rachel Cargle on Instagram where she posts a lot about whiteness, race, justice, and self-love. This recurring post that she has posted on Fridays encourages us to check in with our friends by sending them a few bucks for their morning coffee. It's a small way to say, "I see you, and I value you." Try it out this week!
Ashley recommends the podcast Bad With Money With Gaby Dunn. Dunn self-professes to be clueless about money--but she's on a journey to figure it out. Every episode she dives into a conversation about money with celebrities, experts, and other special guests.
Kindreds of the Moment
Ruchika Tulshyan recently gave an interview on Harvard Business Review's Women at Work podcast. She wrote a piece for HBR Business Review entitled, “Women of Color Get Asked to Do More 'Office Housework.' Here’s How They Can Say No.”
Some key quotes:
"For on-the-spot requests like ordering lunch, I’ve used, 'I really need to be present during this discussion as it’s critical to what I’m working on.'"
"I’ve previously written about a group of female professors at Carnegie Mellon who formed an 'I just can’t say no' club to help them refuse what they called “office favors.” Cultivating this network of allies becomes particularly important for women of color as we progress." Learn more about Tulshyan's work on her website.
Stuff We Mentioned
The Soul of Money by Lynne Twist Suze Orman's books Women and Money and The Money Book for the Young, Fabulous, & Broke The Fairer Cents podcast You Need a Budget (YNAB)
Read the full show notes at http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/10/17/episode-25-the-value-and-virtue-of-money/.
We dive into prayer, meditation, and all the spiritual practices we do (or don't do) and how our spiritual lives have evolved over time--and continue to evolve.
Here are some practices that we find meaningful in this stage of life:
Journaling Being in nature Choosing a yearly mantra Having a regular gratitude practice Praying the Daily Examen, a meditative practice to end the day What We're Reading and Listening To
Thanks to Ashley's recommendation, Katey ate up the third season of the StartUp podcast, which follows the ups and downs of a new church plant in Philadelphia. It has us feeling all kinds of complicated. Go listen so we can all discuss! BONUS: there's an extra episode that features a woman church planter.
Ashley reads Nayyirah Waheed's poetry collections Salt and Nejma, which she posts often on her Instagram feed. In particular, her poem "as you are | you are the prayer" is speaking deep truth.
If you're looking for more inclusive spiritual resources, we recommend Our Bible App. Their mission: "Through devotionals highlighting pro LGBT, pro-women and encourage interfaith inclusivity we hope to provide a tool that is needed to create healthy prayer and meditation habits." We're excited that Kindreds will soon be featured on their list of recommended podcasts.
http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/09/24/episode-24-our-evolving-spiritual-practices/
Why is making friends in adulthood so tough? On this episode Ashley and Katey discuss the ways that we've tried (and failed) to find friends, how we've learned to change our friendship expectations over time, and some ways that we carved out space for friendship in our busy schedules (even with young kiddos!).
If you're looking to make new friends, here are some things you might try: Consider making your home (or a space you like to go) the place where people gather. Invite folks for a potluck dinner, a board game night, or a celebration of a minor holiday. Yes, you'll have to clean up before (and after), but it'll probably be worth it.
Ask your friends to connect you with their friends. Think friend blind dates.
When an opportunity comes along, say yes. Take the risk and dive in. If you can't get together at the proposed time or if you need to cancel, apologize and make a specific plan to meet up in the very near future.
Err on the generous side. Be the one to invite others. Let go of what others "should" do and do what you want to do. Make community happen on your terms.
What We're Reading and Listening To
Ashley recently finished Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson about his work at the Equal Justice Initiative, an organization that provides legal defense for people who can’t afford it. Ashley describes the writing style as "John Grisham-like," which will engross you from the start. Stevenson ends the book by suggesting practical ways for citizens to get involved with ending mass incarceration.
Katey devoured an advanced copy of Linda Kay Klein's now-available book Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free. She takes on the purity movement in a no-holds-barred-kind of way that Kindreds listeners will just love. (If you haven't listened to our episode "Dating Rules," go check it out.)
Kindreds of the Moment
Katey shares about her newest professional endeavor as the newest team member of Crouch & Associates, a performance consulting firm that truly lives into the values we espouse to our clients. If you're involved with a nonprofit organization that needs assistance with fundraising, please reach out to us.
Stuff We Talked About
The Little Book of Lykke 11 Perfectly Introverted Ways To Make Friends As An Adult”
Next time on Kindreds we'll be talking about meditation, prayer, and spiritual practices.
Visit the shownotes here: http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/08/28/episode-23-friendship-in-adulthood/
Have you pledged to support Kindreds on our Patreon page? You can sign up in less than a minute–and for as little as $1 a month. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show www.patreon.com/kindreds
Don't be afraid to fail big. But who gets to fail without real consequences? And how do we recover from life's most disappointing moments? Today we discuss some of our failures, our feelings about them, and how we've learned to cultivate resilience through building our internal "toolbox" of skills and practices.
http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/07/18/episode-22-resilience-and-overcoming-fear-of-failure/
What We're Reading and Listening To
Ashley has been watching the Queer Eye reboot on Netflix. Jonathan Van Ness, one of the cast members, has a podcast called Getting Curious. His episode "How to Apply Ethics to Everyday Life," a conversation with Christian ethicist Ryan Huber, whose scholarship focuses on German theologian and anti-Nazi activist Dietrich Bonhoeffer, offers an accessible way to learn more about a complex, nuanced issue.
Katey has been giggling at Riot's Womanhood series on Youtube featuring comedians Aparna Nancherla and Jo Firestone. Katey discovered the duo on an episode of the Unladylike podcast called "How to Gal Pal." While all of the episodes will have you in stitches, she recommends you start with this one: “Do you Need Helmets for Aqua Cycling?”
Kindreds of the Moment
We are celebrating all of the resisters who are speaking out against injustice. Here are some of our favorites:
-600 women sit-in at the Senate Building protesting family separation, wrapped in foil blankets. Almost all of them were arrested. -Clergy protest family separation and Jeff Sessions in Los Angeles -Clergywomen demonstrate outside of Customs and Border Protection office in DC -Patricia Okuomou, immigrant from Congo, climbed the Statue of Liberty on the 4th of July to protest ICE and family separation. She said, “'When they go low, we go high,’ and I went as high as I could.”
We'll be taking the month of August off from recording. We'll be back with new episodes in September.
Have you pledged to support Kindreds on our Patreon page? You can sign up in less than a minute–and for as little as $1 a month. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show. https://www.patreon.com/kindreds
Pain is personal. But what happens when our pain isn’t taken seriously? We dive into the dynamics of pain, gender, and the medical community, and we address how this impacts women of color particularly. We talk specifically about childbirth and pain more generally–and the messages we got as kids about “making a fuss” over our ailments.
Read the full show notes at: http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/07/03/episode-21-women-and-pain/
Have you pledged to support Kindreds on our Patreon page? You can sign up in less than a minute–and for as little as $1 a month. Thanks for helping us cover the cost of making, producing, and sharing this show
Ashley and Katey are back together again! To celebrate our 20th episode Ashley is busy creating a custom Kindreds playlist on Spotify and Amazon Prime to share with our listeners. As a special treat for our Patreon supporters, we'll make the playlist available two weeks early. Not a patron yet? It's so easy to sign up. Head over to our Patreon page and sign up. http://patreon.com/kindreds
We're really grateful for our friends over at the Pulpit Fiction podcast who are having accessible conversations about the lectionary texts each week. In particular we love the conversation they did last year with writer and theologian Rob Bell. Check them out and be sure to subscribe.
This episode we're talking about apologizing in the era of #MeToo and #ChurchToo. We talk about the different kinds of apologies, why genuine apologies are so important (and hard), and the dynamics of accepting apologies. We talk about the four components of a genuine apology that was developed for elementary school kids but is a useful tool for grown-ups too. And, we critique the emphasis in many churches on offering forgiveness to those who have done the harming, even if the person has refused to accept responsibility or change their behavior.
Check out the full show notes at:http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/06/24/episode-20-when-sorry-youre-mad-doesnt-cut-it/
Katey speaks with filmmaker and journalist Asha Dahya about her upcoming documentary series Life At All Costs: Going Beyond Pro Choice vs. Pro Life. We talk about her faith journey from evangelicalism to spiritual searching and how that shapes her work around changing the conversation around reproductive health and rights.
Asha Dahya is a journalist, a filmmaker, and the Content Creator and Editor-in-Chief of GirlTalkHQ, a daily women’s news media site with a mission to inspire and empower, and that centers positive news for women with a focus on the representation of women in the media. Follow her on Twitter(@ashadahya) and Instagram (@ashadahya), and keep up with her documentary making process at Seed and Spark.
Shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/06/04/episode-19-reframing-reproductive-rights-with-asha-dahya/
After a brief life update from Ashley (she's coming back to the podcast soon!) Katey talks with Cari Jackson about what to do when we long for spiritual community but have trouble finding a place where we fit in. Cari offers some ideas for how to begin creating community on our own, and we even touch on the Beyoncé Mass briefly.
Rev. Dr. Cari Jackson is the author of five books, a speaker, a social healer, and a leadership coach. Cari is ordained minister, holds PhD in social ethics, and also has a law degree. She’s currently the Executive for Religious Leadership and Advocacy for the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, and she’s worked across many different movements and organizations, bringing hope and healing and joy to the struggle for a more just, compassionate world.
Read our shownotes at: http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/05/14/episode-18-searching-for-belonging-with-cari-jackson/
Katey joins author Rachel Marie Stone to discuss her latest book Birthing Hope: Giving Fear to the Light. We examine the simultaneous discomfort and the awe we feel about how in the act of giving birth, we touch death as we bring new life into the world. We discuss the ways that the medicalization of birth has changed the ways that we think about birth, the importance of affirming women's self-knowledge of their own bodies, and the ways that birth can teach us about the nature of God.
Rachel is the author of Eat With Joy: Redeeming God’s Gift of Food, which won won Christianity Today book award in the category of Christian Living, and was named one of Religion News Service’s “Top Ten Intriguing Books of 2013.” Her latest book Birthing Hope: Giving Fear to the Light will be available on May 1. Publisher's Weekly said "Stone’s style is reflective, making the book more of a meditation than a traditional memoir, and the prose is evocative throughout." You can pre-order Birthing Hope on Intervarsity Press.
On this episode Katey sits down with author Erin Lane about her decision to take a year-long sabbatical, what responsibility she feels for the time, and what lessons--like celebrating small victories--she has learned that we all can incorporate into our lives, whether or not we can take a year off from paid work.
Erin is the author of Lessons in Belonging from a Church-Going Commitment Phobe and the co-editor of Talking Taboo: American Christian Women Get Frank About Faith (Katey has a chapter in this book). She is a retreat facilitator for the Center for Courage & Renewal and Chair of the Board for the Resource Center for Women & Ministry in the South. Find her at erinslane.com.
We interview advocate Ashley Easter about her upbringing in the stay-at-home daughter movement, how reading scripture on her own paved the way for her to leave fundamentalism, and how she works to end abuse in all forms, both within the walls of the church and beyond.
Ashley is a writer, speaker, and a powerful advocate for survivors of abuse, especially those who have been abused by leaders within their faith communities. She is the author of The Courage Coach: A Practical, Friendly Guide on How to Heal From Abuse. She’s also the founder of the Courage Conference, a gathering for survivors of abuse and those who love them to learn about ways that they can find healing from these past traumatic experiences. You can find her at ashleyeaster.com.
We talk with writer Cindy Brandt about her shifting faith journey, identifying as a feminist, and approaching parenting in an unfundamentalist way. Cindy is the author of an upcoming book on parenting from a progressive Christian perspective. Her website is cindywords.com where she blogs about faith, culture, and parenting. She’s the founder of the Raising Children Unfundamentalist Facebook Group which has over 11K members. She describes herself as “a social justice Christian and a feminist more interested in being evangelized than evangelizing.”
In honor of Valentine’s Day–and all of its baggage–Katey and her special co-host Matt (Katey’s husband of nearly five years) discuss what it means to be married. We talk about our failures in past relationships and how they inform our partnership today. We discuss how parenting has changed our relationship and how Matt’s background in psychology has helped us work through some of our toughest moments.
If any relationship–romantic, professional, familial, and friendly–is going to be healthy and sustainable, we all need to do the deep work of self-discovery. Some of the psychological concepts that have helped us most include understanding transference and triggers. We’ll include some helpful resources to help you understand your own emotional make-up and how it can help rather than hinder your relationships.
For more resources, check out our shownotes: http://kindredspodcast.com/2018/02/15/episode-13-lessons-in-marriage/
We take a brief hiatus from our month off from recording to talk about what has been going on behind the scenes with the podcast! We talk about why we decided to make a podcast, the ins-and-outs of how we put each episode together, and how our listeners can help us out by supporting our brand-new Patreon page at patreon.com/kindreds.
In this longer, year-end episode, we continue our conversation about bodies--but this time we're talking about pregnancy. And one of us makes a big announcement!
Pregnancy can be a complicated experience, even when it's planned and even when there are no major physical complications. We talk about the weird ways that pregnancy changes not only our bodies, but also our mental and emotional lives. If that wasn't enough to deal with, pregnancy and childbirth can be very costly depending on where you live, what insurance you have, and what options you have for where to give birth.
Speaking of costs, we discuss affordable childcare, paid family leave and our need for national policies that cover both. We discuss Jessica Shortall's "The US needs paid family leave--for the sake of its future" and the gender politics of who gets to take leave--paid or unpaid--when it's available.
Connecting to our faith, we talk about our perspectives on Mary the Mother of Jesus. In particular we love Rachel Held Evans's piece she wrote on the Magnificat.
http://kindredspodcast.com/2017/12/19/episode-12-pregnancy-and-paid-family-leave/
We discuss the complicated and often toxic diet, fitness, and "wellness" culture that feeds us the myth that in order to be our best selves, we have to lose weight, get into shape, and achieve our dream bodies.
In our pursuits to be "healthy" (meaning thin), we end up doing a lot of unhealthy (and expensive) things! Plus we don't even have a shared understanding of what healthy means--not even among medical professionals. We attach all kinds of character attributes to the way our bodies look and what we do them. If we eat something healthy, we’re “good.” If we eat a treat, we’re “bad.” There's no in between.
Achieving health is more than a personal quest. It's also a justice issue. We talk about how systemic poverty forces people to make hard choices between buying healthy food and paying the light bill, especially poor families with young children.
We also call out the ways that churches have bought into this toxic diet and fitness culture--and have even profited from it.
http://kindredspodcast.com/2017/12/07/episode-11-bodies-health-and-wellness/
In a follow-up to Episode 2 "Self-Care as Self-Preservation," we take on the topic of mental health. It’s something most of know we need to pay attention to in our own lives, and yet there are a lot of barriers to accessing quality care, especially when we need it most.
What does it mean to live in the world as white Christian women? We resist the urge to turn away from the discomfort of talking about whiteness and dive into the very real privileges of living as white people. We discuss white culture, the problem of "colorblindness," the system of white supremacy, and what our white faith communities have to say about race.
What does it mean to bear the burden of emotional labor? This unpaid, unending work falls disproportionately to women, and it can be hard to define because it depends on the context. At work emotional labor includes adjusting the expressions of your emotions to benefit a colleague or client in a positive way (i.e. “service with a smile"). In relationships it can mean engaging in intensive conversations with friends and loved ones, listening to their problems, being in charge of hosting people when they visit, communicating with children’s teachers and doctors about their care, etc.
What are the dating dos and don'ts that single people are expected to follow if they're part of a church community? We discuss the experience of dating while Christian, specifically in the more conservative and evangelical world that we grew up in. We pay particular attention to the troubling double standards for men and women that we were taught as young people.
Can women get along with each other? Whether it’s in the workplace, in friendship, or in church, we’re often told that women are incapable of working well with each other. Is there something to this generalization or is it more of a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Do you identify as a feminist? If so, what does that mean? We challenge the idea of “choice feminism” while discussing our personal struggles with decisions we’ve made that might not be perceived as “feminist.”
What’s behind the “modesty rules” for dress in schools and faith communities? How do these explicit and implicit rules impact boys and girls? What about for people of color and those who identify as genderqueer? We explore our curiosities around the gender of clothing and its broader cultural implications.
Should I have a kid? Can I have a kid? We dive into the complex questions surrounding the decision-making process of how we create our families. We also lift up the many barriers and injustices that prevent people from being able to make these decisions freely.
Does self-care have to cost a lot of money? Does it have to be practiced in solitude? We discuss the guilt and insecurities we feel when we don’t know how to meet our own needs--and offer up some practices that have helped us learn to do just that.
When we call a girl “bossy” or a woman “intimidating” what are we really communicating to and about her? We talk about the importance of raising girls up as leaders, both within their faith communities and outside of them.