The Effective Executive: Recent Episodes
Tripp Babbitt
This podcast is designed for veteran, new and aspiring executives and executive teams. We don't teach leadership. We help executives uncover how your brain works (neuroscience), master synthetic thinking, and assemble methods to improve your career and create value for your organization.
You can get our Effective Executive Starter Kit at https://the95method.com/starterkit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 170th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, take a look into what to expect from the US economy in 2024. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 169th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will the importance of thinking inn your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 168th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about what makes organizations bloated and how to address it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 167th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the importance of different views and disagreement. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 166th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn why experience is more often unreliable. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 165th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn why a theory is never proven. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 164th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the continuum organizations should travel to achieve new heights. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 163rdepisode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about the shortcomings of process improvement and a better way. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 162nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, executives need to know what customers and employees are saying about their company through websites where complaints can be communicated. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 161st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the cure for micromanagement. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 160th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about a common mistake new executives make. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 159th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, The 95 Method is discussed with a breadown of why it is, "A better way.". Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 158th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get a run down of a control organization vs a organization built with freedom. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 157th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get a brief economic update, economic and market measures to follow, and why supplier management is key. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 156th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you learn why business transformation can do more than reduce costs / increase revenue when the front line takes the reigns. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 155th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you learn why business transformation can do more than reduce costs and increase revenue. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 154th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the problems of "big picture" surveys. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 153rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn why busiess transformation without executive support has drawbacks. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 152nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about the impportance of prompt engieering for AI and some ideas of how to get started. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 151st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn ways to avoid unintended consequences in decision-making and business transformation. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 150th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will understand the importance of method to help your organization win. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 149th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn five keys to business transformatiom using the 95 Method. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 148th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get a breakdown of three recent trends that may threaten your going- concern. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 147th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the high-level steps of the 95 Method's business transformation. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 146th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, this is an introduction to future episodes on how AI can help executives. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 145th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, we reveal topics to be covered in the second half of 2023. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 144th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get an update on the economy and things to prepare for in deflation. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 143rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn how executives too often get the wrong perspective and how to get the right one. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 142nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will hear episodes on Executive "anti-axioms" - axioms that can cause your organization distress. In the fifth axiom, repacing people is expensive and short-sighted. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 141st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will hear episodes on Executive "anti-axioms" - axioms that can cause your organization distress. In the fourth axiom, you understand better the role of an executive in the organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 140th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will episodes on Executive "anti-axioms" - axioms that can cause your organization distress. In the third axiom, you learn the importance of knowing who your customers are. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 139th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will episodes on Executive "anti-axioms" - axioms that can cause your organization distress. In the second axiom, you will understand why employees going rogue signals a systemic problem. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 138th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will episodes on Executive "anti-axioms" - axioms that can cause your organization distress. In the first axiom, you will learn why your organization has always been broken. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 137th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the last (18th) axiom, you will learn the importance of doing a transformation that will be your last. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 136th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 17th axiom, you will learn the consequences of both action and inaction. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 135th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 16th axiom, you will understand how organizational decay - entropy and atrophy - is constantly at work in your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 134th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 15th axiom, you will learn a successsful organization design is Customer-In. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 133rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 14th axiom, you will learn the pifalls associated with copying. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 132nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 13th axiom, you will understand how executive beliefs and assumptions make-up the structure of an organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 131st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. At the end of each quarter, you will get an economic update to help in assessing the current environment. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 130th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 12th axiom, you will learn the components of constructing an aim and why it is important. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 129th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the 11th axiom, you will uncover the positives of having an innovation pipeline. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 128th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the tenth axiom, you will learn the importance of not getting distracted from quality and excellence in your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 127th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the ninth axiom, you will learn why discretion around principles leads to better outcomes than scripts, rules, procedures, and policies. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 126th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the eighth axiom, you will understand the importance of leading measures and how to identify them. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 125th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the seventh axiom, you will learn why standardization doesn't always help your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 125th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the sixth axiom, you will learn the importance of staying in discovery mode. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 125th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the fifth axiom, you will learn the importance of why decisions should not be final. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 124th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the fourth axiom, you will learn why the system carries more weight than individual performance. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 123rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the third axiom, you will learn where control of the work belongs. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 122ndepisode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. In the second axiom, you will learn how targets can cause chaos in your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 121st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In 2023, you will see a series of Executive axioms in episodes. The first axiom deals with how focusing on costs can increase costs. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 120th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get your quarterly executive economic update. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 119th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn how to argue without criticism and get understanding. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 118th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn how changing operational definitions change the results. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 117th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn why targets may counter your intentions. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 116th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the importance of a customized approach to changing your culture. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 115th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn how to bring technology into your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 114th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn what it takes to innovate and do it quickly. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 113th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn what your focus needs to be as an executive and the consequences of NOT understanding. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 112th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the right way to reduce the size of your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 112th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the right way to reduce the size of your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 111th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will understand the challenges associated with sharing services and why it is often a bad idea. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organizations. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 111th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will understand the challenges associated with sharing services and why it is often a bad idea. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 110th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn a simple act to increase engagement resulting in increased profit. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 110th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn a simple act to increase engagement resulting in increased profit. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 109th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about the pitfalls of centralization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 109th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about the pitfalls of centralization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 108th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the importance of having the customer set the target. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 108th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the importance of having the customer set the target. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 107th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get an update on economic conditions and how to prepare. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 107th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will get an update on economic conditions and how to prepare. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 106th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will hear a customer service story as shared by a customer. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 106th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will hear a customer service story as shared by a customer. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 105th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about executive turnover and how to position your self for a move up. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 105th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about executive turnover and how to position your self for a move up. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 104th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will hear about the importance of invention and what inhibits it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 103rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about 8 things executives do that suck. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 102nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn the importance of the pivot and a way to recognize the need to pivot and do it faster. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 101st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about 4 barriers to business transformation and what to do about these barriers. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 100th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn more about being an effective executive to improve your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 99th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about an executive problem through the actions of the Fed. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 98th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, we'll discuss why performance goals are designed with stupidity in mind. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 97th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn about the Bullwhip Effect and what to do. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 96th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, you will learn ways organizations "energize" employees, why they don't work, and what to do instead. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 95th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares how handoffs ruin the customer experience and increase costs. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 94th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt gives an economic update for the second quarter 2022. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 93rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares his prediction on a course change for companies. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 92nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses entropy in organizations - how to recognize and mitigate it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 91st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares how assumptions can wreck your decision-making and what to do about it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 90th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt breakdown the failure of customer surveys. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 89th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the possibility of a depression in 2023 and how to prepare now for it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 88th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the advantages to executives of learning the mechanics of trading stocks. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 87th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares two primary areas for executives to look to reduce costs and increased customer satisfaction. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 86th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the failure of data and how to challenge your thinking about data. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 85th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt announces a new YouTube channel on the economy and investing. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 84th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares ideas for reducing marketing and sales costs. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 83rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains how overcontrol damages an organization and what to do about it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 82nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses Disney's recent political misstep. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 81st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the world/US economy and why you need to be prepared. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 80th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares his insights on innovation. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 79th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt uses this episode to remind executives what creates profits. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 78th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains why you need to respect the system. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 77th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses why executives should seek reality and contrarian views. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 76th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt outlines the right way to flatten your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 75th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the shortfalls of leadership and how to fill the void. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it. We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 74th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains 6 things that make your organization efficient - but NOT Effective. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 73rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at critical thinking in organizations. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 72nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at ESG (Environment, Social and Governance) and things to consider. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 71st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt continues his discussion on creating value as the way forward. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 70th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses why executives should focus on creating long-term value. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 69th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at the year ahead and its challenges for executives. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 68th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the habits you need to do the right things. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 67th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the need for executives to advocate for the customer. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 66th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares thoughts about Better.com CEO firing 900 employees over Zoom. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 65th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains the cost of ignoring customers. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 64th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses zero sum organizations. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 63rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt reveals what organizations and executives can do to be the best. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 62nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt revisits 4 lessons from Disney's decline. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 61st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at Zillow and its stopping its home buying. There are 5 lessons from Zillow's actions. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 60th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares experience as a customer of T-Mobile / Sprint. Looking through the Customer Lens can help executives improve their organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 59th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares experience as a customer of T-Mobile / Sprint. Looking through the Customer Lens can help executives improve their organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 58th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares his approach to helping how you can guessing by taking steps to knowing. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 57th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares his approach to helping make managers to executives. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 56th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses why it shouldn't be difficult to get change to happen - if you take the right approach. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 55th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the importance of "going big" in your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 54th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares 4 lessons from Disney's decline. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 53rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains what skeuomorphs are and how to deal with them. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 52nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses steps a new executive should take when first entering a new organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 51st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the problems with common sense solutions and quick fixes. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 50th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt gives takeaways for executives from COVID vaccinations. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 49th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt identifies 3 sources of unintended consequences. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 48th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses how executives should address a customer service fail. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 47th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt describes how executives create barriers when they should be removing them. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 46th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt how getting and keeping employees is much harder and what to do about it. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 45th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at an organizations inability to proactively innovate - a necessary endeavor for future revenue. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 44th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at customer surveys - why organizations do them, why they fail, and a surprisingly effective different approach. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 43rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks how making changes on a small scale can protect you and your company. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 42nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at why outsourcing, M&A, and Shared Services fail. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 41st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the upcoming financial downturn and what executives should do to prepare. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 40th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses 5 skills to be effective executive. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 39th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the law of unintended consequences and counter-intuitive discoveries. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 38th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the importance of working out. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 37th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses three lessons you can apply to your organization from trading stocks. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 36th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt helps executives recognize attribution bias.. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 35th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares some statistics executives may want to know. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 34th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the importance of building a customer creed for your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 33rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the need for methods to grow your company and an organization employees and customers can benefit from interactions. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 32nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses how executives too often work on the wrong things and set themselves and their organizations up for failure. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 31st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt how the 95 Method works and why it isn't a prescription. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 30th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the importance of executives identifying the roles creating value fo customers. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 29th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt shares a story on his difficulties setting up an investment account. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 28th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses ways to mitigate burnout in your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 27th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains how decentralization is more effective than centralization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 26th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt explains why IT data are unreliable for customer insights. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 25th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses his experience looking through the Customer Lens at Disney World. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 24th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses executive assumptions, why your brain defends them, and how to challenge them. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 23rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses how your brain yearns to discover and how experimentation can be self-motivating. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 22nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the importance of the customer to your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 21st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks back at corporate raiders and then to the recent Reddit Raiders. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 20th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt looks at Commander's Intent and how you can apply to organizations. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 19th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the making of American Toast - You Burn, I'll Scrape attitudes go far beyond just inspection. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 18th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt introduces a new series on YouTube taking you from old to new management thinking. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 17th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses how to kill ideas in your organization. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 16th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp shares one secret to becoming an effective executive. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 15th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp looks at the lessons from Randy Pausch's The Last Lecture. Download our Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 14th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses what he learned from a Civil War General. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 13th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the important differences between accountability and responsibility. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 12th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses 3 forms of Cringe-Worthy copying. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 11th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses 5 methods to needed to become an effective executive. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 10th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses 10 executive skills found through most mediums. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 9th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss W. Edwards Deming, the Deming philosophy, and how to get an unfair advantage for you and your company. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 8th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss how to make good executive decisions. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 7th episode of The Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss the differences in approach between the efficient vs effective executive. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 6th episode of The Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss the importance of the system map as a necessary first step to becoming an effective executive. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 5th episode of The Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss a name change to the podcast and 10 leadership competencies. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 4th episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss methods of efficiency and effectiveness. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 3rd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp will discuss methods of efficiency and effectiveness. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 2nd episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the characteristics of an efficient/analytical vs effective/synthetic executive. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Veteran, new and aspiring executives need methods to be successful in their organization. There are 1000s of leadership podcasts, videos, blogs, and articles but few authors address what to do or how to do it.
We have witnessed many executives who are efficient (doing things right), but few executives are effective (doing the right things). We believe this is misguided and aim to remedy the shortfall with executives.
This is the 1st episode of the Effective Executive podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses Dr. Peter Drucker's The Effective Executive. Download our FREE Effective Executive Starter Kit.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 74th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses changes to the Mind Your Noodles Podcast. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 73rd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the 5 brain requirements for customers and employees. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 72nd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the 3 business brain chemicals you should know. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 71st episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the 5 Ways for Executives to Transform an organization. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 70th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses performance appraisals. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 69th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses his interactions as a customer with Apple and American Airlines. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 68th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the importance of whether your brain gets its energy from cortisol or dopamine. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 67th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses a Harvard Business Review article filled with academic theory. Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com if you are a new or aspiring executive for discounts to The 95 Method executive education system.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 66th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we discuss an opportunity for new or aspiring executives. Are you a new or aspiring executive? Contact me via email at tripp@the95method.com with your name, company and company size for a significant discount on executive education.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 65th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we discuss the neuroscience of discipline. Sign-up for The 95 Method executive education program - free previews at Mind Your Noodles.com/free.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 64th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we will discuss the different high-level options in setting priorities. Sign-up for The 95 Method executive education program - free previews at Mind Your Noodles.com/free.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 63rd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we will discuss the myth of economies of scale. Sign-up for The 95 Method executive education program - free previews at Mind Your Noodles.com/free.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 62nd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we will discuss the Theory of 150 on social relationships and size of an organization. Sign-up for The 95 Method executive education program - free previews at Mind Your Noodles.com/free.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 61st episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. The subject of racial inequality is dominating the news cycle. This episode looks to what we can learn and apply to alleviate our neuroscience tendencies. Sign-up for The 95 Method executive education program - free previews at Mind Your Noodles.com/free.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 60th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, there are four methods involved in The 95 Method - why isn't marketing one of them? Sign-up for The 95 Method executive education program - free previews at Mind Your Noodles.com/free.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 59th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we will look at meaningful work as a prime motivator of employees Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 58th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we get an update on the executive education system we are building and discuss neuroscience and rewards. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 57th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we get an update on the executive education system we are building and discuss macro-systems. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 56th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp looks at the Coronavirus testing and experimentation and what we can learn by applying this thinking to our organizations. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research, and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 55th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, looking at the coronavirus and your organization critically through a brain-friendly lens. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 54th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we look at working from home (WFH) and some things to do to improve it. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 53rd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Before you go back to work, relook at your organizational aim and narrative. This episode walks you through building a narrative. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 52nd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp looks at the causes of stress from the pandemic and what to do to relieve it. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 51st episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp looks into laughter and how it can help us through the coronavirus, ourselves and our organization. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 50th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp why we need to physically distance ourselves and NOT socially distance. Also, some predictions for the future - after the Coronavirus. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 49th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the Coronavirus and the stress it initiates. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 48th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses a relatively recent discovery - mirror neurons. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 47th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, discusses the latest neuroscience research on customers. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 46th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp goes into more detail on cortisol and how you can mitigate its effects personally and in your system. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 45th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses how stress can kill an organization and why you need to identify the sources of stress in your system. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 44th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp explains the payoffs you get from using The 95 Method. Sign-up for The 95 Method education and training program at Mind Your Noodles.com/training.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 43rd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp walks through what makes The 95 Method different in building a brain-friendly organization. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 42nd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp evaluates Theories@Work using neuroscience. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 41st episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp introduces the four methods you need to build a brain-friendly organization. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 40th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses the problems with surveys as a way to understand the customer. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 39th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp discusses a system and why you need to understand the system before establishing an aim. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 38th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we reflect on 2019 and look ahead to 2020. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 37th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, we share websites to assist in your system assessment - websites where employees and customers complain. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 36th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Wells Fargo made some huge mistakes. Are your values and incentives aligned? Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 35th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt takes a look at the customer perspective of replacing a roof including coordination of multiple parties. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 34th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt takes a look at Amazon as a case study on assessing Customer-In and the Theories @Work. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 33rd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt walks through the updated and refined System Assessment PDF document. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 32nd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt continues to look at theories@work. Hierarchy, competition, artificial scarcity, barriers, punitive discipline may be at play in your organization. What are the PsychoPolitics at play in your organization? Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 31st episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt continues to look at theories@work. Your organization may be more proactive or reactive depending on the variables discussed in this episode. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 30th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses six non-monetary rewards that work better than monetary rewards. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 29th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt digs into the theories @ work and evaluating goals, objectives, and targets. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 28th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt digs into the theories @ work focused on the individual vs the system Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 27th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt digs into the theories @ work in your organization's structure and size. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 26th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt digs into the theories @ work in your organization starting with incentives. Two downloads on how to build a brain-friendly organization are available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview and MindYouNoodles.com/systemassessment.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 25th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the happy brain chemicals with Dr. Loretta Breuning. A download on how to build a brain-friendly organization is available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 24th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses the use of theory in organizations in building a brain-friendly organization. A download on how to build a brain-friendly organization is available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 23rd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode Tripp Babbitt interviews Dr. Terry Deacon of the University of California - Berkeley. A download on how to build a brain-friendly organization is available at MindYourNoodles.com/overview.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 22nd episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode Tripp Babbitt lays a framework for building a brain-friendly organization. Three components are discussed: System Assessment, Aim Construction and System Progression. A download accompanies this overview at MindYourNoodles.com/overview.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 21st episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses how to get knowledge to establish an aim for your organizational system. Listen and/or subscribe to Mind Your Noodles! on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or Google Play.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 20th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt discusses how the brain makes decisions, and how to make better decisions.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 19th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt introduces a new acronym for brain chemicals - CODES. These brain chemicals are fundamental to understanding what influences our behavior.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Listen to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 18th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode our guest is Maggie Nichols, CEO of the Eureka! Ranch. We already know innovation is brain-friendly to customers and employees. Maggie lays the groundwork for a method to innovate.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 17th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Bored at work? The Basal Ganglia helps make your brain more efficient by developing routines (habits). In this episode we explore how it affects customers and employees. If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up here.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 16th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Bored at work? Your brain is built to explore and be curious. If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up here.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 15th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Creativity and what is going on inside your brain is discussed. Subscribers have been sent an email with the download of the PDF of how to see if your organization is brain-friendly. If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up at MindYourNoodles.com/subscribenow.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 14th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. I discuss where to start with building a brain-friendly organization - the customer. If you are not a subscriber, just https://mindyournoodles.com/subscribenow.
Listen and/or subscribe to Mind Your Noodles! on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or Google Play
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 13th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. I discuss Phineas Gage and his mishap that changed neuroscience theory in the 1800s. If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up at https://mindyournoodles.com/subscribenow
Listen and/or subscribe to Mind Your Noodles! on Apple Podcasts, Stitcheror Google Play
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals.
This is the 12th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Brainy Boss podcaster Annie Lacroix is our guest. Annie and Tripp discuss keeping you own brain healthy by understanding how to get better sleep, reduce stress, more exercise and using mindfulness. If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up at https://mindyournoodles.com/subscribenow
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 11th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Survey results, one brain-3 parts and 3 things impacting brain health. If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up at https://mindyournoodles.com/subscribenow
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the 10th episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. This week you get to select the type of material relevant to you (subscribers only). If you are not a subscriber, just sign-up at https://mindyournoodles.com/subscribenow
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the ninth episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. Ann Herrmann-Nedhi of Herrmann International is our guest. In this episode, you'll learn about the false dichotomy of left brain right brain a whole brain approach to tackling challenges and opportunities in business. The importance of creativity and getting a creative mindset the importance of social factors for the executive and how to mitigate fear.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the seventh episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt (host) begins to build a foundation for addressing neuroscience. I will cover three areas: 1. The Deming philosophy; 2. Systems and Theory; and 3. Method.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the seventh episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode, Tripp Babbitt (host) reflects on the interviews he has conducted, the work of W. Edwards Deming and how organizations can improve using neuroscience, method and PDSA.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the sixth episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode our guest is author and neuroscience practitioner Christine Comaford. We discuss her SBM (Safety, Belonging and Mattering) Model, the difficulty of revenue inflection points and two tools to help employees aspire and own their own insights. Show Notes [00:00:06]
Mind Your Noodles Episode 6
[00:01:33]
Christine's Story
[00:09:21]
SBM and the Brain
[00:15:55]
How the Brain Reacts
[00:20:17]
Looking for Role Models
[00:22:16]
Why Organizations Pull for Smart Tribes
[00:23:54]
Revenue Inflection Points
[00:27:34]
Two Tools
[00:34:00]
smartribes.com/ERA
[00:35:07]
Storytelling and Reframing
[00:39:51]
Emotional Change Takes Time
[00:40:47]
Start with the Willing
[00:42:42]
How to Approach the Organization - Smart Tribes Style
Transcript Tripp: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you with the Mind Your Noodles podcast or we keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy. And strategies to help your organization be brain friendly. Hi I'm Tripp Babbitt host of mine your noodles. My guest today is Christine Comaford. Welcome Christine.
Christine: [00:00:38] Thank you. TRIPP It's awesome to be here.
Tripp: [00:00:40] Well I got to tell you Christine. I've spent the last week like inside your head somehow I've been watching videos of your book The Power your tribe book which is your latest book. I've been to YouTube I read your Web site I got your mission vision values sitting in front of me. And so just kind of introducing yourself to guests and I also know that you're into story so people of of have listened to an episode by park how talks about the importance of story. And by the way it seems to be the only thing people in the neuroscience world seem to agree on is storytelling.
Tripp: [00:01:17] So I thought that maybe you could give us your story and tell us a little bit about you and how how you wound up doing things in the neuroscience world. And I'll I'll just shut up at this point.
Christine: [00:01:33] Got it. Thank you. So you know what we do first. First let me just make sure he understands what we do. So at Smart Tribes Institute what we do is could be considered Applied Neuroscience if you will. We take the latest neuroscience research and the stuff that's useful to leadership and we then map that down to very specific very practical tools and we'll be talking about and sharing some of those tools today. So we are in executive coaching firm organizational development. We do workshops consulting coaching. So we are always looking at what in neuroscience has been discovered recently what have we learned recently that is actually relevant to optimal teams to leading on a new level to applying tools to sales and marketing. So let's just kind of a quick look at context if you will. So. So when I was 13 I started studying different religions because I wanted to understand what's the meaning of all this. And by the time I got to 15 I had studied a bunch of the different religions and I said you know what I think that it's important to start to understand human potential and then it was called human potential. So I went to a program called est Earhart seminars training and they said Come back when you're 18 and I thought you know there's gotta be a way around this. So I got my parents to take EST which is you know a very and which was a very intense personal development multiple weekend deep dive where basically you're totally ripped down so you can then build yourself up internally in a new way. And my parents when they were good sports and then they wrote a letter so I could go.
Christine: [00:03:15] And I learned that life is meaningless. You have to create meaning in your life and you can. And we have full 100 percent responsibility for whatever happens in our life. And I was absolutely fascinated by that and I thought that is so great why don't I just you know take control of my life and run away and start my you know start my career. So it's a totally delusional. So then I was 16 I had a fake I.D. I ran away in New York City.
Christine: [00:03:43] Nobody questioned Tripp. The easiest way to make my fake I.D. was to go from 1962 to 1952 right.
Christine: [00:03:52] Nobody questioned that there was a 16 year old who said she was 26. I mean like there's a huge difference in appearance but nobody bothered. So I got to I got to work in a neuroscience lab then it was called a human potential lab. And so I was totally geeking out on wow what makes people do what they do. How do they form beliefs. Where do behaviors come from you know identity come from all the stuff was super interesting to me. So I started at 16 and I was totally like burnt out with the world and I like being an adult. And at 17 I took my vows as a Buddhist monk. So then I thought you know I'm going to check out the god angle because maybe that's. It's like it's not the religion angle it's actually doing it. You know celibacy vegetarianism you know vouchers.
Christine: [00:04:43] So I did that for seven years but while I was doing that I was teaching myself how to program computers. So I thought wow well this is actually kind of programming the brain which is the coolest computer out there. But let's also learn like how to program computers because sooner or later this month thing might not work out and I'm going to need a job.
Christine: [00:05:00] So because I was like going you know I think we need to go down and they were like No let's go up and out I'm like. I think Buddhism is going the wrong direction you know and they're like Oh
Christine: [00:05:12] So I was you know you know I want to go in and down and in the in the the branch of Tibetan Buddhism I was and they wanted to transcend transcend. I'm like Oh I think we could deal with our stuff first you know. So anyway ultimately I broke my vows and went to a different type of monastery which was Microsoft. And I fit right in. You know. You know socially inept and all that stuff. And so what we what I did was I kind of brought all the the the spirituality stuff and the brain stuff and there how people form their beliefs stuff. And I kept working on it. And you know ultimately I built a bunch of companies sold them or took a public and the whole time I'd been just going Wow. Human beings. There's a there's a vast universe inside of each of us like let's understand it you know cause like that's like the great frontier the Star Trek was talking about. So. So that's how it all how it all started. OK.
Tripp: [00:06:09] So Christina I've written down a couple of things here. One is under achiever and low energy.
Christine: [00:06:18] Slacker.
Tripp: [00:06:18] Oh my God you're killing me. All right. Well this is great. No. That's a great story. I do like that story. So here we go. Go ahead.
Christine: [00:06:29] So I mean that's that so. So now what we do is what's kind of cool is I retired at 40 because I was like OK I've done it I've done business I've done money you know I've done all these other things that I'm done. You know now I'm just going to like chill out and you know hang out with nature and and then my dad got pancreatic cancer and I've been by then I had been a hospice volunteer. I've been volunteering with hospice for 20 years now. Now it's 20 years I've helped 43 people die. That's why volunteer work that I do. And and I really thought you know what all these stories start to come up. So I want to understand my life like my dad is dying. You know I want to understand my life. So I started running stories and ultimately became a book and then it became a New York Times bestseller and then suddenly everyone's calling me and I'm Unruh tired. So I became unretired at it at like 41. So I kind of failed retirement. And I'm like 56 now. And just that's what we do now we help companies help their people perform at new levels with much greater engagement fulfillment satisfaction lower burnout lower stress. And people just get to see how awesome they are and the companies get to thrive and do really well. Everybody's happy the tools work great. And it takes a lot less energy you know. So that's even better. Like why get it done in 60 hours when you could do it in 40 you know.
Tripp: [00:07:58] Yeah. Boy Lot to unpack there. I feel like I haven't lived up to my potential after listen to you tell those stories although I know people like you.
Christine: [00:08:13] Well that was my path. Let me just say that you think it might not fun and glamorous now but it was freaking hard. I'm thinking about your parents at the moment. Yeah. Yeah they were good sports. My mom just passed away in October of 2018.
Christine: [00:08:28] And yeah we use these tools. You know I use these tools with Mom and Dad as they were going through their death process. So some of the tools that we're going to learn today because it just helps us shift into you know a different mindset where there isn't suffering you know. OK.
Tripp: [00:08:43] Well in the beginning of Power Your Tribe you start to get into the brain and this whole thing on SBT and I've read enough books now you know people some people are comparing the importance of social as much as even sustenance and Maslow's hierarchy saying that those are actually equal.
Tripp: [00:09:08] You know they're going so far as to say some things like that. And and you've got to start us out a little bit with the basics of the brain and the whole concept of this SBT and what that acronym is.
Christine: [00:09:21] Yeah. And actually the acronym is SBM safety belonging mattering. Okay. No problem. So. So this is just gonna be a super high level view of the brain in the context of leadership. OK so three key parts of the brain reptilian brain a million brain and neocortex that's where the prefrontal cortex is reptilian brain. This is our brain stem. This is where we have this is basically our stimulus response machine coded for safety. This is where we have life support systems breathing temperature regulation balance the reptilian brain doesn't understand quality of life. So if you touch something hot you'll jump away just automatically right your reptilian brain because it's keeping you not dead. It doesn't think of living or dead it thinks of dead and not dead. So pretty simple really pretty simple pretty darn primal. OK. So concerned primarily with physical life you know physical not deadness. OK next mammalian brain which is more our emotional. Our emotions are our emotional brain concerned with whether somebody is a friend or foe. A little bit more evolved than dead or not definitely but still a stimulus response machine coded for emotional safety.
Christine: [00:10:42] Now the limbic system the debris always talks about the fight flight freeze response is a series of areas of the brain and in my experience the try and brain theory it kind of overlaps the reptilian mammalian so it's not quite so clean as to say it lives there. But here's what's interesting and here's what leaders need to really know. The hippocampus the hippocampus in the mammalian brain which is responsible for learning and memory. It's in the emotional brain. OK so what does this mean. Companies will have like Oh I'll walk into a company. Oh what are your values. Oh just a sec and they'll start digging through their file cabinet I'll be like Wait you don't like. No your values by heart. No. I mean you know they change and they're kind of boring and you know so they're not emotional. So if we want somebody to learn something we want somebody to retain something. We have to attach emotion to it. Why. Because humans are emotional beings emotions to a human are like wings to a bird.
Christine: [00:11:40] They are how we navigate our experience in the world. And if we look at the research from Carnegie Mellon M.I.T. Stanford Harvard NYU UCLA we will see that 90 percent 90 percent Tripp of our decisions of our behaviors are driven are dominated by our emotional brain. This stuff is important we use our intellect and we think our intellect is awesome and it is but it's 10 percent of our decision making is 10 percent of why we respond the way we do. So anyway we got them a million brain and it's saying Friend or foe. All right next we've got the neocortex. Prefrontal cortex is part think of it like a like a bike helmet. Maybe it goes it goes kind of across the top of your head a little bit goes a little bit towards the back and the prefrontal cortex is right behind your head. The prefrontal cortex is where we have decision making vision language skills tool making discrimination that doesn't quite work for me judgment. We have the ability to say I'm here but I want to be there how do I get there.
Christine: [00:12:46] So if the prefrontal cortex could speak it would say What can I create so much more interesting than friend or foe or dead or not. Right. But but what we want then as leaders is all three parts of the brain working well together. So we get innovation creativity we have the level of safety that we need and when we have all three parts working together we call this the smart state. Now what happens though when we have lots of stress changing directives random acts of violence out there in the world crazy political climate you know all sorts of challenges out there in the world we often will go into what we call critter state like a little animal like a little critter stay for not dead or not fight flight freeze. Right. That's when we are in kind of reptilian mammalian brain lockdown. And when anybody listening has been under major stress you might notice that you don't have great ability to envision things. You don't have great ability to make decisions you don't have great ability with language skills et cetera because that part of your brain is shut down. So as leaders we want to get people in and keep them in the Smart State and we'll talk about some tools to do that today. Now to answer your question about SBM if we look at why we do what we do humans don't really buy products or services. You know what we're looking for out there in the world are one of three key emotional experiences safety freedom from fear certainty knowing people have our back belonging knowing that we fit in we have equal value we are loved we are cared for and mattering knowing that we are making a difference uniquely we are not a cog in a wheel we are a unique expression of our unique accomplishments are unique gifts are being recognized and seen.
Christine: [00:14:37] Achievement is here as well. So if you look at a company culture if you look at a country right. If you look at why elections swing to this side or that it's always due to safety belonging and mattering you can look at all the different models the SCAERF model the self-determination model it doesn't matter. It all boils down to three things. Why have seven when you can have three right. It's easier to remember. Okay. All right. Yeah.
Tripp: [00:15:06] So. So I thought that kind of comes into my mind and I guess maybe I start to look at myself. You know I spent my entire career learning things around statistics and a kind of engineering types of things Lean Six Sigma and all those types of things.
Tripp: [00:15:27] And one of the things that I've found over the years is that they can be totally ineffective unless somehow you're connecting. But I didn't have a method. You know what I mean. I didn't have a I didn't have a system to go through to be able to understand that the people I'm talking to needed safety belonging and all those things. Before I could even start talk to them about data and all of that is would you say that that's true. Pretty much across the board.
Christine: [00:15:55] Yep. If somebody is craving safety and they're not feeling safe. Think about when you've had that experience. Right. You're not super open to anything else. You're just trying to be safe. Right. Belonging if you feel like you don't fit in. You've had that we've all had that weird experience of Oh man I don't feel like I fit in I don't feel like I'm part of this group. Right. That's super distracting and unsettling and then mattering if we feel invisible. Gosh that's painful. You know how we're going to perform at work if we're not seen and we're not appreciated right ow ow ow. So as leaders it's really important to notice what somebody is asking for because when they're in critter state remember their prefrontal cortex is off line. So when they're in critter state they're gonna have certain behaviors that will clue you in that they are actually asking you for safety. So when somebody's in Critter state and they want safety because they're not experiencing it they're going to spread gossip and rumors spread fear. Talk about getting the heck out of here talking about exit plans. Right. Because their tribe is back to that adage you know misery loves company company they're trying to they're trying to reconcile how they feel inside and what the world looks like outside. So if everybody else is scared right then OK I'm not nuts. If somebody wants belonging and they're feeling like they don't fit in they will isolate drop communication withhold information. Right. Because they're not feeling that they belong with the other people. So they start to kind of affect belonging in those around them. So important in leadership mattering if somebody is in Critter state makes sense.
Tripp: [00:17:40] Yeah. Oh yes. It just takes me back to when I first time I was a manager I didn't know what I was doing.
Tripp: [00:17:45] You know you know and and you know 42 years ago I mean it was just kind of I don't know Game of Thrones yet to live.
Christine: [00:17:58] Yeah.
Tripp: [00:17:59] Where were you forty two years ago. Don't answer it. You know.
Tripp: [00:18:06] So let's let's finish up with mattering so with mattering if somebody has the behavior of condescension arrogance at the extreme extreme extreme mattering absence of mattering we can see bullying. So I want us to start to have some compassion when we see these challenging behaviors and instead of judging the challenging behaviors say oh wait a sec wait a sec. This person just wants safety. Let me sit down with them. Ask them how they're doing and see how we can give them some experience of safety. This person just wants belonging they're not being a jerk and withholding information they're not feeling connected to us. Let's go bring them back into the tribe mattering this person who is saying I'm doing everything nobody appreciates me this place would fall apart without me they're just looking for some mattering let's say hey wow I really appreciate your unique accomplishments you know you're unique gifts I really see as a thought leader Hey can I run some stuff by you because I really value your opinion. See we don't have to judge each other anymore. We can as leaders as leaders if we if we signed up to be leaders we didn't sign up to be taken care of but we signed up to take care of others and to help others rise up. We signed up to cultivate and elevate others. And if you don't want to do that you know leadership isn't your gig. You know I find so many people get surprised what is the take care by people what cause you signed up to be a leader.
Tripp: [00:19:34] You know that's interesting. It's. And I've been I guess I go back. You. We didn't have back in the day when I was a young manager knowledge of these types this type of thinking. I mean even the neuroscience community really a lot of the research has been done over the last decade. I mean some of that data certainly got more people you know running with those types of things. I wonder if it's how much do you think Christine that it is that maybe people don't want to be leaders because they see the leaders that they have and they said that I want to be like that ever. You know because they don't have a method they don't have this system to be able to break things down.
Christine: [00:20:17] Ok. I think that's a really good point. Yeah. I don't it's not a role model right. Hey well I don't want to be that if that's what leadership is. Give me the heck out. Here right now. Yes. And I think the more I hate to see enlightened look let's say aware conscious the more aware the more conscious we become we can start to look because we do have some good examples of leaders in the world. We have a lot of video kind of counterexamples Well I do want to be that but we have some good examples. You know we have Warren Buffett. You know we have you know we have a handful of people that can just say oh gosh that doesn't work for me. Use discernment instead of judgment. I'm going to go ahead and do this. You know we have a handful of people that are really making a difference. So everyone needs to kind of find who is their role model. And even if your role model is a character in a movie that is fine. No seriously Abraham Lincoln JF JFK I mean you know I think Meg Whitman is a great example of leadership. And you know we've got a lot of examples and I think you know Bill Gates has definitely mellowed over his years. You know back in the 80s he was not a great example of leadership. You know now he definitely is. You know Steve Jobs had his days for sure. You know we're we're hoping that Mark Zuckerberg is going to really turn the corner and you know become a stronger example of leadership. You know the line best is a little bit of a counterexample right now. But when he went along Musk manages his emotional state and gets out a critter state where he seems to spend a lot of time you know he'll be a great example of leadership. OK.
Tripp: [00:21:54] So one of the things I wanted to talk about here. Great conversation though I think this is great foundational stuff to be able to have the rest of these this conversation. But why do organizations. You know maybe just a couple of reasons why people come to Christine or you know Smart Tribes for help. Why do they pull for you.
Christine: [00:22:16] Yes yes. People come to us and one of two scenarios they want to grow and they don't quite know how to get to that next level. I mean they could keep doing it slowly creeping along but they either don't quite know to get all the way that they want to get. And you know if you need a jungle guide if you want to navigate a jungle you've not been through before because we've built companies up to seven billion dollars. And so that's a lot. Knows all that. That covers a big enough landscape for us and we've worked with guys at 1 million. But so how to actually get your people mobilize your people so that they can navigate growth and change. That's kind of the primary reason. And then secondary is when it's a turnaround situation you know or it's a integration situation. Wow. We're changing the direction of the company entirely and people are kind of freaked out or one of our clients. I mean gosh they've been they've been acquiring anywhere between seven and 14 15 companies per year. That integration alone of bringing all those people together. So it's navigating growth and change. You know it's called the executive summary. Now anybody who's doing that needs to help their people get to the next level.
Tripp: [00:23:34] You mentioned one of the things that I caught on it and you called them I think there are inflection points for.
Christine: [00:23:40] Oh yes. Type of thing yes.
Tripp: [00:23:42] Is is this a good place to talk about. Sure. I wasn't sure I didn't get enough. I may be out of the reading of the videos or I got confused so I thought maybe you could share with us what that means.
Christine: [00:23:54] Yeah and we totally geek out on revenue inflection points in our second book which is Smart Tribes. So yeah with power your tribe you're not going to see that much of it. Yeah. Power your tribe is more about human behavior whereas Smart Tribes is more about how to create a company and the structure of it so that people get in and stay in their smart state more. So we found over the past 30 years there are certain points when a company hits this revenue number it's a whole new company. And there are three things we've got to really look at the people and how we're caring for the people and helping them grow and align in a role and engage them the money how we're working through sales and how we're financing the company and how we're structuring operations et cetera. And then model business model you know if the dessert topping is a failure maybe we can make it into a floor wax. You know like how are we actually tweaking and adapting and shifting our business model to match the industry people money and model.
Christine: [00:24:54] So we've found we map it all out in Smart Tribes that revenue inflection points occur really profound ones at 10 million 25 million 50 million one hundred million 250 million five hundred million and then it goes generally with each billion or so. Once you get up to about five billion you know a couple more billion doesn't really change thing that things that much. But I want to I want to notice that anybody listening. What happens is if we don't take care of the people. Money and model components and we have this chart that shows you what you need to do in each of those areas. If you don't take care of those you won't navigate to and through that next revenue inflection point. I cannot tell you Tripp how many companies come to us and they are stuck around 25 30 40 million. They can't get to 50 million and they swirl around below that 50 million revenue inflection point or worst case they start to slide backwards. So you have to have the tools to get to the next level or you're gonna swirl or slide backwards because again how are you going to get somewhere that you've never been before you know if you don't know that the path if you will. So we have sort of four components. There's leadership there's influence there is navigating change and growth and then there's optimal teaming. And for each of those segments if you will and there are a one day workshop in the Smart Tribes methodology there are about seven tools one has six one is nine but there's an average of seven tools per per component. And some companies you know they've got there they're navigating change okay maybe but they aren't they'd navigate a lot better if they had stronger influence with their people or if their leaders were engaging in enrolling people better or their teaming isn't totally working and people aren't coming together and connecting. So there's usually an obvious kind of sign there.
Tripp: [00:26:59] Okay. So on those. So that's why they're swirling around this 25 to 40 million because they're deficient in one of these areas one or more of these areas is is that kind of what you find.
Christine: [00:27:09] Yeah. And it reflects in the people money or model.
Tripp: [00:27:13] Okay yeah. More specifically than that or more generally the people money model piece. Okay. Yep yep yep. Okay. Is there something else you want to say about growth because you're also involved in kind of helping companies with kind of their salespeople and so forth is there.
Christine: [00:27:34] Yeah. There are two things I want to focus on and I want you guys to learn two tools. So for starters what we really need to do in the workplace is we need to help people aspire. So we're cold and hungry now but we're go to the Ritz Carlton 24/7 room service Egyptian cotton sheets. So it's it's hard now but I see how great it's gonna be okay. Aspiration second is we need to help people have their own insights not leaderships insights that are handed down their own insights. So let's talk about a couple of tools then we'll talk about a sales and marketing tool. The first tool that is fantastic to help people have their own insights is called the outcome frame the outcome frame is a series of questions and the outcome frame starts with what would you like. So maybe we're looking at the problem let's start to look at the outcome that we would like. Okay. Oh and we can we can send you these images you can put them on the website so people can have a companion visual to go with this podcast. So question number one what would you like something you can create and maintain. I you know I'd like more strategic time. Okay good. Question number two what will having that do for you. What are the benefits how will you feel. Well I'll feel more engaged more energized like I'm really making a difference to the company I feel peaceful and powerful and proud and it'll be awesome. Question number three How will you know when you have it this is going to be the proof the criteria. Well I have more strategic time when I spend two hours or more each week on strategy and planning when I cut the number of meetings I attend by 25 percent when my direct reports are at leadership level five or greater.
Christine: [00:29:11] Okay great. Number four my favorite question what a value what that you value might you risk or lose what side effects may occur. Well to get more strategic time I might initially feel less important because I'll be less involved in the minutia I'll have to let go of some control maybe resist the temptation to rescue people. I'll have to oh shoot I'll have to invest time and cultivating leadership My people won't magically rise up I'll have to actually cultivate them. So question number 4 is there is the reason you don't have the outcome that you wanted. So because this Leader isn't willing to do these things they don't have more strategic time. Makes sense. Yeah well two more questions. Okay. Question number five where when with whom would you like it what I wanted it work. I want it with my direct reports I want it in 45 days. Okay great. What are your next steps. We've got to get specific here set up recurring meetings on my calendar for one on ones to cultivate leaders leadership and offload work. Determine what you need to skip implement Smart Tribes effective meetings and delegation processes. So we've got to actually spend about 15 minutes on this outcome frame to make sure that we are brain is. Firing the visual auditory kinesthetic possibly olfactory is many of the five senses as are possible. So we are stepping into that glorious future and test driving it. We're not fantasizing about it. We're saying wow what's it like in that cool future where I have this. Oh yeah I want this it's worth it. QUESTION.
Tripp: [00:30:48] Yeah. SO. SO WHAT I SEE built you building here is exactly what you talked about early in our conversation which is you're building this emotional foundation to be able to grow. Is that.
Christine: [00:31:01] Yes. Okay. Yes yes yes. And what's happening in your brain okay neural coupling. OK we're starting to step into this future dopamine Y. Right we're releasing dopamine we're saying oh this feels really good. Yeah. That that's going to start to motivate the reward oriented behaviors. If we're listening to somebody telling us a story you know the person who is hearing the outcome frame they're actually there they're going to start to mirror the behavior of who they're hearing and then cortical activity. You know we're processing facts were we're connecting parts of our brain that are called Broca's and Wernicke's areas we don't need to get on that boat but we're we're actually experiencing those sensory cues of of actually having that outcome so powerful so often I find people just look at the problem and they complain about the problem. Our job as leaders is to help them shift and focus on the outcome so please use the Outcome Frame for that. And we have to also look at how much resistance there is out there so there are seven steps to really BOOT build emotional resilience. First is releasing resistance because that way it makes room for more choice. So start to notice what the heck are we resisting. Resisting takes a tremendous amount of energy and now start to look at use the Outcome Frame. Oh but what what I like. OK. Number two we've got to start increasing rapport with ourselves.
Christine: [00:32:35] I call it antisocial media because it's not really helping people get more connected. What helps people get more connected and we know this from Alexandria Arabians research many many years ago is when we're with people physically we're seeing them we're hearing them we can touch them you know we're connected to them more deeply so increasing report yourself increasing report the others actually getting face time. Number three making new meaning start to notice when you get stressed and when you're on critter state start to notice what stories you're telling yourself oh he's so hard to work with Oh I don't like this and then do an Outcome Frame Well what would I like. We are meaning making machines and the stories we tell ourselves create are reality reality is what you say it is Shakespeare told us this ages ago there's nothing good or bad only thinking makes it so what are you thinking about something and if it's not working shift your reality and look at what you would like and start to create that name before anchoring the outcome that's more complex you're gonna need to empower your tribe to learn how to do that five enrolling and engaging others bring your safety blanket mattering they're six build tribal agility expand and keep that good change going seven. Expanding tribal power so safety belonging mattering we can use a lot four five six and seven.
Christine: [00:34:00] So if we start to notice how often do I feel good versus how often do I feel bad that will help us understand our level of emotional resilience. Everybody write this down go to Smart Tribes Institute dot com SmartTribesInstitute.com/ERA That's an emotional resilience assessment it's going to take you gosh five minutes and here's what's so cool about it as you answer these questions and then you're gonna get your answers displayed on the screen as well as emailed to you right away you're then gonna know what tools to use from power your tribe to give you a better experience.
Christine: [00:34:46] Yeah super cool super effective.
Tripp: [00:34:48] By the way I will put those in the show notes too so that people have a link to it.
Christine: [00:34:52] Okay great. And I will give you the outcome frame image and then the emotional resilience image. OK cool.
Tripp: [00:34:59] All right so we're in growth and we're talking about the outcome frame and you've given us several things to think about there and the resistance.
Christine: [00:35:07] So those are the two things that you need for growth then well releasing resistance helps you then focus on the outcomes that you want. Okay. Okay. It's not it's not quite that simple but that's a starter. Okay. You know Navigating Growth and change You gotta look out for the emotional state right to safety belonging mattering. We want to make sure that we teach everybody to tell to tell news stories that we're telling a story that doesn't feel good. A lot of companies think about this in your experience. Tripp we've all done this. I have definitely done this myself. Think about when you have belonged with somebody around pain when you have belonged with somebody around maybe complaining about something right. That's what you have in common. So you get together and you complain about stuff. So you belong with each other. I want people to start looking at how we create belonging around things that are not actually empowering. So start to look at how do I connect with others around what topics are they expansive and positive and growth oriented or are they contracting and negative and do I feel sort of drained and discouraged afterwards because I want us to start to notice that we can shift that once again. What's the story. Basic reframing. What's the story we're telling ourselves. How does it make us feel. How would we like to feel. What's the story that we would need to change there. So in reframing I want us to start to notice daily as leaders one of our clients will give me an example.
Christine: [00:36:44] One of our clients they they had a really bad quarter who really and they're a public company. So they got smacked by the stock market really bad quarter. Everyone's all freaked out and the CEO gathers every together and says Hey everybody. What an educational quarter we just had. So it's not like gloom and doom. Layoffs are coming blah blah blah. No. Wow what an educational quarter we just had. We learned three key things. We learned that we had lost touch with our customers. They want upgrades to our product more often. We have learned that we have competition that we didn't take very seriously. They're nipping at our heels. We need to innovate faster. We need to increase our expand our product lines. And we learned actually that we have a handful of advocates that we've been ignoring. So in this next quarter we're going to tackle those three areas. We're going to get back on top. How great that we learned these lessons. And yeah it was painful but we got him we got him. Now let's take this next quarter and Rocket. Susie Q is going to own this initiative. Bob's going to own that initiative. Juan is going to own that initiative. Boom everybody knows what team they're on. Let's rocket instead of Oh my God it's a scary bad quarter. We're gonna do layoffs we suck and get.
Tripp: [00:38:08] This is actually a good segue way into kind of my next question which is kind of the purpose of this podcast is I come from a background of systems thinking which I know you're familiar with because I read where you talked about Peter Senge he and why you probably your mission vision and values just together.
Tripp: [00:38:28] And so so one of the things that that is part of actually my method which I call the 95 method is mostly about having method which can be so so in other words if I've got so far as I'm I to you talk you go for these things for growth for innovation there is this mindset that needs that you need to have but when you have that mindset you still need a method correct. I mean in order to.
Christine: [00:39:00] Oh yeah.
Tripp: [00:39:01] So. So from a method standpoint I do a podcast with a gentleman by the name of Doug Hawes worked with Disney and Procter and Gamble and Nike and and companies similar to you actually.
Tripp: [00:39:15] But he just focuses on innovation. He's the he's the big idea guy and an end-to-end system for. For doing it. And you know as I hear you talk. Lot of things I think I'm trying to get to is because I'm so method oriented and you play a method for kind of the brain is how how do we design in some of the stuff to build a brain friendly organization. How how how do y. Yeah you did so so that it's in need into the way that you've got your company designed.
Christine: [00:39:51] Ok well I have to tell you it doesn't happen overnight. And what we do when we do our leadership acceleration program is it's for one day workshops eight webinars. Thirty micro learnings which are a little short baby videos that people share with their teams and it takes about a year and a half. Mm hmm. And then the culture is absolutely transformed and I have to go forward before you know the outliers. Yeah we have had a few enormous companies where it took two and half to three years because it was enormous and we were transforming thousands and thousands of people.
Tripp: [00:40:25] But you still have the mindset began that that I heard and one of your videos I believe. Yeah. You talk about you know sometimes we just go in an organization will start with a team just a game. Yeah. So you see you're kind of breaking you're breaking down the elephant and if I get to you the whole elephant I go to it one by the time. So you're still taking the approach of let's start with an area or something like.
Christine: [00:40:47] Yeah because you've gotta it is sometimes it's too big to eat the elephant right. And so a client will come to us and they'll say OK help us with this you know group leaders and we'll start to see positive change and then everybody else would go Hey what's going on over there. How come you guys are knocking it out of the park and nobody else is you know let's figure this out let's do this. So what matters is that we we take this wherever people are receptive and we start to build a groundswell. So bottom up can often work better than top down you know because if it's top down at a huge organization. So when Procter and Gamble brought us then they had us work on their Latin American sales division. Great. I can get my arms around that. No problem you know. And we taught them a bunch of tools for connecting more deeply with our clients. We talked about safety belonging mattering for the client but we also taught them about Meta programs you know how do we step into the shoes of our client and actually feel and and understand the experience our client has having so we can message to them more effectively so we can connect with them more effectively so we can build trust much more quickly so we can actually have a profound meaningful connection instead of just you know we don't want a one off sale who wants that. You know we want a profound meaningful connection with our clients.
Tripp: [00:42:11] Ok so from your standpoint it's it's a it's kind of these classes that you have in order to to kind of build the brain friendly organization because you are in essence taking them right from where they are today. Yeah I'm trying to say OK. Because that what applies over here to Procter and Gamble isn't going to necessarily apply to Nike because they have different systems if you will. So you have to take them kind of. From that spot.
Christine: [00:42:42] Well we'd just Sec. They have but they have humans. Yeah. So we always look at what the business challenges and you know like the top three business challenges. That's where we know where to start. Okay. We're gonna start with optimal team stuff that optimal teams tools. Oh we're gonna start with the influence tools over here. So we look at what the what the greatest opportunities or challenges are at the company. And that's the tools that with that we start with you know and sometimes they just want transformation in that one area so they'll only get the tools in that area and that will be enough you know or they'll come back to us a year later hey you know we're ready for for some more tools. The way that these really get ingrained and this is why we have the workshops then the webinars in between the workshops and then the micro learnings so everybody in the company can watch a five to 10 minute video for each of the tools and learn that you know there are 30 to micro learnings you know the average bear in the company if they want to learn these tools they can't you know it's a scalable way to do it. And you know it can also be a great tribal thing where people come together in the lunch room and they watch one of the videos and they practice with the tools and then we give our clients all of the graphics and you'll walk through the halls of some of our clients and you'll see or at least in the meeting rooms you'll see our key infographics describing the Outcome Frame or myelin Asian or maneuvers of consciousness or reframing or cultural game plan or safety blocking mattering. You know you'll see our different diagrams. The emotion will you'll see better programs you'll see these these graphics so that people remember to use the tools because it's really helpful to have them in our environment.
Tripp: [00:44:22] All right very good. Let's now get a kind of interim phase here and we call it kind of the hot potato phase which is fitting. So so I am deeply embedded in the philosophy of W. Edwards Deming which we kind of emailed back and forth a little bit about and sectors I wrote some things down and it just there. There are things I'd be curious what your perspective is on. And the first one of that I want to talk about with regards to Deming philosophy is this concept of drive out fear. So one of his 14 points was drive out fear and you write about this in Power Your Tribes which is you know there's a lack of trust in in order to drive out that fear. Can you come in a little bit about how you drive fear out of organizations.
Christine: [00:45:13] Yes and fear. I find that many leaders you know are scaring their people into mediocrity. And we're scaring them and sending them into critter state. Not intentionally but we're scaring them with incomplete information with not making it safe to experiment or fail. Right. Public beheadings. We're creating fear by not having open clear communication having conflict avoidance is a great way to create fear. Having unrealistic perpetually unrealistic deadlines where people just can't do that much work in that short of time. Changing directives. Oh no we're not doing that anymore. We're doing this well nobody told me and I'd been doing that for two months. So we create fear and a lot of ways. But it primarily boils down to communication which is why that's our first corporate value. You know our company if we have if if human beings have clear explicit communication. In my experience you can get through anything. Okay.
Tripp: [00:46:26] All right. Yeah. I like that and obviously there's a ton of stuff in here about how to mitigate that fear in your book. The second one or another one because I got many but it would just get through a few of these. But there is the mindset of that we're all taught in the Deming philosophy ninety four a five percent of performance comes down to the system that you work in and one of the things I had trouble with early on is this kind of. There seems to be there's a component of neuroscience it's very individual the focus is on the individual. They're the problem they're the they're the focus of it as opposed to the system.
Tripp: [00:47:08] Now the system includes the individual. You kind of see where I'm going with this question. So. So I'm trying to reconcile. Yeah. He's from a Deming philosophy standpoint as Deming wrong because I'm open to that you know from a perspective of could have we learned enough to say it really is the individual and not the system and there are there. There's a lot more to that obviously to unpack but I'm not gonna do I just kind of want to hear what your initial reaction is to that.
Christine: [00:47:37] Yeah well but the individual is existing within a system.
Tripp: [00:47:41] True. yes.
Christine: [00:47:43] And that system is affecting the individuals. So so if we look at I mean for us we use six logical levels of change and that's sort of the environment the system that's happening in an organization. And if we look at the symptoms that are occurring we can understand where to change the system got it. So you know the environment physical emotional you know mental space I walked into a company a while ago it was an open floor plan and you just you walked in there and I was I was uncomfortable even breathing. It's like people were so uptight about being absolutely silent. And I was like This is ridiculous. Human beings aren't absolutely silent. You know and people were emailing each other and of just reaching over and talking to each other. It was e-mailing people like right next door to them. So you know there was just kind of this tense weird environment and you can have an open floor plan and do it really well. And so environment behavior what we do a person's or a company's values really define our behavior. That's why it's important up good values that people understand because it's the code of conduct or company values capability. Those are skills our tools are abilities you know how are our capabilities growing by being part of this system. Beliefs decisions you know meaning that we make about things outside of us. They are. It is you know the world is that the market is our customers our identity the decisions that we make about ourself right the meaning that we make about ourself. I am powerful I am valued I am capable I am safe I belong I matter. And then core you know the most sacred thing to the company and you know it's not profits. The most sacred thing to the company is like how that company is making a difference on this planet. Like why should we bother working there.
Tripp: [00:49:38] That's good. No I think that as I've helped organizations you know write Mission Vision Values nowadays. There are three components that I believe that it has to have. And one of them I just added in the last probably eight years which is the first one is customer some concept of customer some concept of innovation because of the rapid pace of change that we're facing in disruption that we face today. And then the third one is the one that you just talked about which is the greater good. How do we get you know how do how do how do we tap into that now. What do you think as you were talking through that kind of made a note and maybe you can help me with a a name for this. You know there's a say in in your your talk about the system I'm thinking in terms of maybe it's more because I have an engineering type of mindset brain which is the mechanical methods the Six Sigma the statistics you know those types of things versus the emotional system. And I you know that kind of you kind of added that by virtue of what I read while I was listening to you and there's probably a better name than mechanical but I'm just trying to come up with some type of label but that you're talking about that if we're going to affect 95 percent of the performance of a system we have to also account for the emotional system.
Christine: [00:51:01] Yeah. And here's the thing. I'm all for measurement yay measurement. But if we don't enroll and engage people they aren't going to use the measurement type systems.
Tripp: [00:51:14] Agreed. Yeah.
Christine: [00:51:15] They'll mock them. They'll skip them et cetera. And they will be all for naught.
Tripp: [00:51:21] So here here's another one that I wrote down that is just you know it's upsetting but is layoffs.
Tripp: [00:51:33] And you talked about in one of your videos you talked about exile and and people being exiled from there you know from organizations or from their countries. Right. That was the worst thing that could happen to you. And now I have this series of layoffs and we're creating did we have this culture now we're going to lay off this this person one of the things that Dr. Deming talked a lot about is you know there are reasons for. Companies have to lay off if you're in the financial dire straits and it's either sink or swim. I get it.
Christine: [00:52:04] You got to do it I guess.
Tripp: [00:52:05] I think where people have difficulty today is they see the dividend go up and oh I was laid off because they were able to build a new building or to raise their dividend or you know do something that a point. And Dr. Deming was a big advocate of before you do layoffs. What's first of all talk about did the leadership take a 10 percent cut in their pay.
Tripp: [00:52:28] You know sometimes where you're having an actual leadership you know what I'm saying that hey oh well we just had to do it and we just. And there seems to be this unemotional or this you know method and having been an executive and had to lay off people I can tell you it's it's very emotional. Oh yes. Not only to you. For you know why you're doing it but. And you're basically giving the marching orders right to took that you're going at the last people but the only reason to be is because you know find out that the CEO wants a new helicopter or once a week or something like that.
Tripp: [00:53:00] I think that's where we're you know as a culture or as a society we're starting to to push back on those types of things. What are your thoughts how do how do you write are you put into situations like that or do you then you get to the point where you're so in the growth and navigating growth and all those types of modes that you don't really come up against this.
Christine: [00:53:24] Oh no we come. We come up against layoffs we come up against terminations you know for non-performance you know or God forbid you know for epic cause you know I mean these are humans right. With humans you get the full spectrum of experience. If there are layoffs we have to have. We have to have. We have to have an explanation that is fair and makes sense. And you know sometimes a division is closed you know a product line is discontinued you know et cetera. But here's the thing when we lay people off we have to have a clear communication about it that actually makes sense. But then we also have to honor their contributions to the firm. You know so you know we're discounting continuing such and such product line. We haven't been able to find an internal job for Joe. So you know Joe Joe and his team you know will we'll be let go and we want to thank them for all the contributions that they made. And we're going to celebrate those contributions are going to do all that we can to outplace them to help them find their next adventure and we're gonna help them with their resumé or whatever you know. But yeah I mean just this is business. So I want to make sure that.
Christine: [00:54:37] We're balancing it's business and we have to run a a profitable healthy business that makes a difference in the world. And that does sometimes mean that people have to be let go for a variety of reasons. You're not going to have a culture with high employee retention and high employee engagement. If you're doing random layoffs that don't have stories that make sense.
Tripp: [00:55:05] Good answer. I'm going to ask one more question then I'll get to my last question. Great which is around who does and rewards one of the things that Dr. Deming railed against was the concept of quotas versus rewards. And as we've seen like with Wells Fargo and a number of other companies over the years Sears I think with their automotive repair business too. But you don't have to look far too tough to find bad behavior with regards to how those drive certain behaviors within organizations. How do you we know rewards people want rewards. Right yeah. I I've I've read in your book where you've talked about the emotional is greater than than the reward that you get. And and people are more involved with winning career path and public recognition that then rewards. But just that this this concept that you know especially in the US to be win because of Deming came back to the U.S. from Japan it's basically boy rewards are killing us here. You know there people are doing dysfunctional things to hit their quarterly goals so that their price will go up. Those types of things how do you how do you what are your thoughts on that.
Christine: [00:56:20] So I do believe in rewards and consequences and consequences just you know if you drop the ball there will be a consequence there won't be a punishment there won't be a shaming you know but there will be a hey you know Are you OK you know and walking through we have four questions that we walk people through. If somebody you know has an accountability challenge and they drop the ball. But but I find you know one of the greatest problems with quotas is that people don't provide what these sales people for example truly need in order to meet their quota or worst case scenario they actually cap it. You can only make so much commission which is insane because if you have a salesperson that wants to sell like crazy let them you know why would you ever want to mess that up. So I think we like to use needle movers that the minimum acceptable performance because you have to tell people what you expect them to perform you know where how you expect them to perform the minimum acceptable. Rawlence The target is what you want them to hit. The mind blower is wow you know if if we can hit this number that's really amazing at NYU. Emily Balcetis actually did some research at NYU where she also used three levels of goals if you will.
Christine: [00:57:34] She called it something like easy moderate and impossible. I don't like the word impossible because I don't think that it's actually Tripp. But what she found was the systolic blood pressure which is our our readiness to act was so so on. Easy OK high on moderate on the middle one that we would call target and then a little bit lower on the one that she called impossible. So what does this mean. This means that our focus and our readiness to act works is stronger when we actually have three goals three levels of a given goal barely acceptable. What we really want and will if we knock it out of the park. Because when you have this you're going to get the what we really want. One of the middle but goals are often set in a binary way achieve this you know or you're in trouble. And the brain doesn't like that the brain can actually we perceive goals as spatial as psychological as physical. The way the brain deals with goals. So when we have these three levels we can actually move. If you look at what's happening with people who use these three levels we actually move the perception of that goal closer it feels easier and we can imagine achieving it more effectively.
Tripp: [00:58:51] Okay. And just that just to come in I know Dr. Deming comment with regards to quotas what is our targets even is, "By what method?" So you know and I think that's you we're getting there. There's probably a longer conversation associated with that but that because that's guess that's a good start. So my last question to you Christine is this Is there anything that you during the course of our conversation that you'd like to make some clarification of. Or is there anything that I didn't ask that you wish I would have more.
Christine: [00:59:22] Good for now. Ok. But the executive summary is leadership is a privilege it is our great good fortune as leaders to have amazing people to work with so please invest in your people look at their emotional experience help them. The better emotional experience so they can give you the performance that you want. Everybody wins.
Tripp: [00:59:43] Fascinating stuff. Please get Christine Comaford's latest book Power Your Tribe. We appreciate you being a guest on Mind Your Noodles.
Christine: [00:59:53] Thank you. And if you guys want to get our regular tools that we send out monthly go to work with s t i. Dot com and you'll get little goodies from us every month. Work with SETI dot com.
Tripp: [01:00:08] Very good and we'll put that in the show notes also. Thank you again Christine.
Christine: [01:00:11] Thank you.
Tripp: [01:00:12] Bye bye.
Neuroscience experts, practitioners, research and methods for making brain-friendly organizations and healthy individuals. Subscribe to Mind Your Noodles!
This is the fifth episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode Charles Green, author of The Trusted Advisor discusses neuroscience utility and ways to build trust in your organization. Show Notes [00:00:06]
Mind Your Noodles Podcast - Episode 5
[00:01:58]
Dale Carnegie. . . Deeper
[00:05:07]
The Philosophy of Trust
[00:06:13]
Neuroscience - Does It Applies to Organizations?
[00:08:29]
The Argument Against
[00:11:49]
A Descriptive Analogy
[00:40:48]
Forget Neuroscience - What Should We Do?
[00:44:49]
Women are Trusted More Than Men
[00:46:15]
Nurses Most Trusted
[00:52:00]
The Power of Story
Transcript Tripp: [00:00:06] Take care of The brains that take care of you. with the Mind Your Noodles podcast will keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy. And strategies to help your organization be brain friendly.
Tripp: [00:00:27] Hi I'm Tripp Babbitt with Mind Your Noodles and our guest today is Charles H. GREEN He is an author who has written many books one which is one of my personal favorites which is the trusted advisor which I believe was written in around 2000 or so. So maybe we should just kind of start there Charles a little bit about you and you've written that looks like three books. You had a field book and then you also had a more recently the trust based selling book. But like I said the Trust Advisors is I'm sure one that's held by a lot of people whether they're in sales or consulting or really any field where you're you're having to deal with people on a daily basis. I'll let you take it from here. Yeah
Charles: [00:01:16] Well that's that's basically right. The whole three books share the common theme of trust in business. A trusted advisor you right came out 2001 that was the first trust they signed in 0 5 and The Trusted Advisor field book. I think about 2013 and the trusted advisor is kind of the one that you know I made my mark with. That's that's the core branding. Not that I check it frequently but as of this morning it was rated about number 7000 on Amazon which was compared to all millions of books it's up against Harry Potter and it's continued to have that level of popularity. So I'm I'm quite happy to have a book that's performed that well that's excellent.
Tripp: [00:01:58] It's it's well written and you know it's interesting I was looking actually on Amazon about you know different reviews people had on it and I thought some of some of the folks out there kind of gave it a good explanation at least for me. Hopefully you like it as a compliment to which is it's it's kind of a deeper Carnegie's Win Friends and Influence People.
Tripp: [00:02:22] There's a lot more to it.
Tripp: [00:02:23] There's a lot more that you can apply into settings maybe that's not a good explanation but I don't know that I thought when I read that I thought Well that's thoughtful and a few other people kind of jumped on that comment.
Charles: [00:02:38] Yeah I think it's fair and I take it as a as a compliment. I think another thing that people find when I am my people in my organization give workshops or keynote is a common takeaway from people is sort of. It's not like I didn't really know that. I guess I kind of knew that but I never put it all together in a coherent thread like that. So I don't claim novelty but I do think it's knitted together a whole bunch of very common themes so I think it's a good company. Thank you.
Tripp: [00:03:09] Yeah. And I have to say also you practice what you preach to as we exchanged e-mails over a few series of days not only did you spend time with thoughtful responses to some of the e-mails that we shared but also the way that you used a a compliment being very specific which is one of the things out of the book I thought was was you know it's just interesting how some people will that they write something but then they don't really live it. But I could tell that you really live the the books that you wrote.
Charles: [00:03:44] Well I've had 19 years to practice it and you know there is no upper limit to to perfection in an area like trusting or being trustworthy. So it's a constant struggle. But yeah over time you can get better at it.
Tripp: [00:03:59] Absolutely. One of the things I want to kind of interject in this conversation as you know we when we were exchanging e-mails you were talking about W. Edwards Deming and you know he's had different influence on people you know Pixar Bama companies Paula Marshall that make the apple pies for McDonald's and and different folks. And I was you were familiar with Deming which not everybody has but I have a tendency to be people at least my age and up I have a tendency to know who at least who Deming was. What your knowledge of that. Dr. Deming and his work.
Charles: [00:04:37] Gosh it's it's not deep and it's it's old I haven't looked into this material in years but what I'm left with is a tremendous amount of respect. He was obviously somebody who had a great idea somebody who was devoted to it somebody who was very good at explaining and had a great deal of impact. So you know I do not claim any in-depth concrete knowledge about it but you know the core message is brilliant and very well said from what I recall.
Tripp: [00:05:07] Yeah his his his last book The New Economics basically addressed looking at an organization as a system theory vague theory of variation theory knowledge and psychology. We're kind of the cornerstones of of his particular work and you know I remember when I. First read the trusted advisor was kind of a combination of things that it kind of brought back come some epistemology type things in my head. And it also brought in some of the psychology piece even though you don't really overtly mention that it seems to be some of that underpinning the writings of that book. Is that a fair assessment.
Charles: [00:05:50] Absolutely. It's very much there. And I think what we what we intended. I was one of three authors on that book and what we intended was to let those kinds of conclusions reveal themselves to the reader so rather than preaching you know here's how you should relate to your kids or your spouse. We said let's let let's let that one emerge to the reader. And it is pretty obvious. It's definitely there.
Tripp: [00:06:13] Ok. So I'm just going to kind of jump into one of the reasons that I came across you and your work again was there was a post that you made or a comment that you made it was very strong. And it's because we're covering off in this particular podcast about neuroscience and it's an application to organizations. One of the things that that you kind of addressed very directly was you didn't you don't necessarily see it that way and some of the people that I've already talked to like Dr. Zak different folks you know are bringing this into organizations and it gave me pause when I read your comment and I thought you know if this is going to be a podcast this podcasts really needs to be about perspective and you offer a different perspective on the usefulness of neuroscience philosophically as you mentioned in your in our emails and our communications back and forth but what kind of give me would set the foundation here for what it is that you see and why you. You have have some such strong feelings about it maybe and this is a few years ago. So to be to be fair this is maybe you've changed your mind or maybe you've dug in deeper I don't know. So I just you whenever somebody gives me a strong reaction and not just the reaction of Oh that that's baloney or something like that but more a thoughtful response I say you know like I said it gives me pause and I want to understand what it is that you see and to be fair to the audience as we start to look at you know neuroscience. Does it have application to organizations right.
Charles: [00:07:59] Well I mean good for you for seeking out you know different perspectives to answer a little question there and probably Doug and a little bit deeper. I think my background I got a graduate degree MBA Harvard Business School many years ago my undergraduate degree was in philosophy. As a matter of fact in my class at HP as eight hundred people only two of us had a philosophy degree and I was one of them. And so that's kind of a schizophrenic background.
Charles: [00:08:29] You know those two. And and in my career I think the value of a degree in philosophy early on in my career was somewhere between none and zero. It's just not what it was that even a mistake. In fact the more more my career progressed the more I began to see the applicability of it. And this subject is really a good example. Feel free to interrupt me here as we go through the tour Tripp. I guess basically I approach the issues of neuroscience as applied to leadership and business from the perspective of philosophy of science and that deals with things like what is an explanation. What is causality et cetera et cetera. Let me just say upfront I'm not an expert in neuroscience as we've already seen I'm not an expert in Deming but I do know a few things about business and I do know a few things about how to talk about the intersection of business psychology management leadership and all those things. And what has struck me about the subject of neuroscience applied to business it's not unique to that field.
Charles: [00:09:41] It happens when you get people who are deep into the let me call it hard science and I know that at the microscopic level physics is always sort of the paradigm of air quote you know good science there is a temptation among people who are really skilled deep in the hard sciences to want to apply the same kind of principles techniques perspectives into the quote softer areas I'm going to be using a lot of air quotes here.
Tripp: [00:10:09] Oh that's OK.
Charles: [00:10:11] And I think it leads to a couple of problems and I'll call them philosophic but they're they're very real. One of them is the notion of explanation. So for example and again I'm not deeply familiar with either Zen. Or Iraq. But I'll I'll sort of key off.
Charles: [00:10:30] Zak wrote an article in Harvard Business Review about a couple of years ago and you can see very much he says I'm going to describe how neuroscience causes certain factors in management behavior. Right there. Anybody who had training in philosophy when you see the word cause you should know red flag. I go back to David Hume and anybody with philosophy signs you can't prove causation in the sense of the word that we normally mean by proving that I would fault the editor HBR are they shouldn't it like that. You could have said what he intended. In a much cleaner way. So there's that little issue you can't really prove causation. Much more importantly though in casual language hard scientists tend to say things like well we can explain management behavior by delving into the neuroscience of it and I'll speak very broadly. You know the neuroscientists people in this case are measuring levels of oxytocin or they're doing brainwave scans and what they're saying is this explains people's behavior or management behavior or leadership behavior. So my problem lies right there. I would argue it doesn't really explain hardly anything in any useful way. And let me give a humble example.
Charles: [00:11:49] If I were in the room with you Tripp I would put my right hand out in front of me six inches above the table top with my fingers lightly flexed and raised my hand by one foot. So it's a foot and a half off the table. Now let me suggest there is an infinite number of ways to describe what I just did. You could say I raised my hand you could say I was acting out the toast that I gave as best man at a recent wedding. You could say I was flexing the muscles. You could say that my brain was sending certain signals via complicated biochemistry that then triggered certain muscles and so forth and sort you could say I was giving a signal. There's an infinite number of ways to describe what I just did. And it's not that one of them is more accurate or more right or more truthful it depends on the situation. If I actually were at a wedding and what I did was you know raised my hand with a glass in it in a toast. That's what you'd want to say. You know Charlie toasted the group.
Charles: [00:12:53] It's useless to describe what I just did in biochemical terms and yet I think people well schooled in the hard sciences tend to believe well the more deep we can get into the physical explanations of the better the explanation. There is a name for that is called the reductionist problem in philosophy and it's the belief that always the deeper you can get the better the explanation is.
Charles: [00:13:17] Well that makes a lot of sense in chemistry. I makes a lot of sense in physics. You know it's when I when I grew up you know the ultimate source of reality where atoms which could be broken into neutrons protons and electrons didn't know anything more you know. Science has advanced since then. Science advanced past Newton and we would now say the ultimate reality is not explained by Newtonian physics you got to get into quantum mechanics and so forth and so the fact in the daily world that's useless. And you know if I swing a bat and hit a ball Newton is just fine to describe that. If I walk into the pathway of a street I'm likely hit by a car and Newtonian physics is perfectly adequate to describe that. So it's only in certain settings where we're very careful if we want to talk about the nature of ultimate reality in the universe it's very appropriate to bring in all these other perspectives and to bring it back home here. If you're going to talk about things in management leadership and business things like recognizing excellence giving people discretion sharing information building relationships these are all sub topics that Zak wrote about in his HP article I would argue that the choice of the neuro chemical language to describe that is pretty much useless. We don't need neuroscience to talk about the notion of leadership or motivation. In fact it's it's it's beside the point it's distracting.
Charles: [00:14:48] So to me defaulting to that micro level of explanation for all explanations is a fairly low level of explaining our sorry. Description is a fairly low level of explanation and description by reducing things to the lowest physical common denominator becomes really useless and useless.
Charles: [00:15:08] So that's the essence of my concern with it we're using one language to describe phenomena which are frankly practically speaking far better described in other languages. So it's akin to saying well should this concept be better expressed in German or in French. Well when you're talking about leadership it doesn't matter. There's certain area. That might be very important but most management and leadership subjects I suggest are very well dealt with with fairly much common language and not by default to some supposedly superior notion of biochemical language. So let me stop there and see if that makes sense.
Tripp: [00:15:46] Yeah. No i i i falling as best I can. I did it not I don't have a philosophy of real depth as far as that.
Tripp: [00:15:55] I've read some of the stuff that Dr. Deming read you know where as he was going along and getting associated with the pistol melody portion of it but there's a few things that you I wrote down as as you were talking in the first one was this this kid the concept of causation versus correlation you didn't mention correlation but just just to mention it you know just because more murders in the summer doesn't mean that summer causes murders you know type of thing.
Charles: [00:16:22] Yeah correct.
Tripp: [00:16:24] And so there's a difficulty which kind of leads me to the second thing I wrote down which is anytime we're doing dealing with science we're in essence and Dr. Deming used something called PDSA which is plan do study act. We know that we're kind of in a scientific setting and just because we have one instance of something happening doesn't prove anything forever. It just means in that circumstance and that's kind of when as you were talking about you know the hand above the table I'm sitting there thinking OK you know from a scientific standpoint we can't draw conclusions about things based off of even multiple experiment experiments of metaphor. One of Dr. Deming is famous saving sayings was no theory has ever proven.
Charles: [00:17:09] Right. So it's he's philosophically exactly correct.
Tripp: [00:17:13] Okay. Okay. And so you know from that standpoint I gather that you know and I and I as I hear you talk and I'm kind of putting the pieces together and there is a third thing that you mentioned in there and I kind of remind me of you know Frederick Taylor versus what Deming taught. So you've got kind of this Taylor mystic thinking during the Industrial Revolution about you know pound whatever you can out of people pay Papa those types of things and Dr. Deming came in and redid all that and now actually was that kind of same transformation from Newtonian you know thinking to quantum physics. I mean it was a whole new level of of thinking and I guess where I get kind of stuck you know as I hear you talk and you say I have some of that logic associated with it. And again probably not the depth you have I know I don't.
Charles: [00:18:08] Believe me I've forgotten 90 OK.
Tripp: [00:18:10] I'm still working on the two percent you that you know. So the.
Tripp: [00:18:16] But logically there are certain things that I as a read them kind of makes sense and I don't know if it's a familiarity thing or what it might be. But for instance when Dr. Zak talks about the fact that you know you raise as you become an executive you know you raise up through all the levels and you get this power and the testosterone starts kicking in. And in essence you lose empathy. I find that useful from a scientific standpoint does it apply to everyone. Probably not. But. But is it something that would be useful for people to know. I think so and I've and I've heard others that are in kind of the neuroscience field kind of support kind of what Zak's saying. So you know I'm hearing that. So are you countering that type of thing or is it is it something else that that you're you're taking from an argument perspective from an art.
Charles: [00:19:15] It is something else. I don't disagree with that finding. OK. And sort of empirically obvious to me as a manage. Kids huh. But you know hey more more proof. What the heck. That's that's fine. What I'm here arguing about is an example I'm looking at Dr. Zak's article in front of me just to refresh my memory. And he in this article in Harvard Business Review he says quote I identified eight management behaviors that foster trust. These behaviors are measurable and can be managed to improve performance. Close quote. And those eight behaviors are. He calls them behaviors no one recognize excellence. Number two induce quote challenge threats unquote. Number three give people discretion in how they do their work. Number four enabled job crafting. Number five. Share information broadly. Number six intentionally build relationships. Number seven facilitate whole person growth. Number eight show vulnerability. Now those are all you know we understand in plain English we understand what those mean and what he's done what he says he's done in his research. Remind me to come back and comment on the research. OK. But what he what he suggested is that. They've been able to measure different levels of oxytocin in association with these kinds of phenomena. I have no problem with that whatsoever. I'm just saying. Who needs that to talk about. Give people discretion you know share information broadly intentionally build relationships and be vulnerable.
Charles: [00:20:44] Poets have said as much every management consultant I know would say as much people 30 40 50 years ago who were very well respected in business sent as much without any need for any benefit from oxytocin or or neuroscience.
Charles: [00:21:01] What I'm arguing about is the utility the value brought to this set of observations by the field of neuroscience it seems to me pretty minimal. It's like I knew this. This is second grade stuff. Not that it's not important. Believe me. I mean he's absolutely right and picking on these issues for example show vulnerability. That's huge. And in the work that I do and trust that's one of the leading things. My question is why did I need to know that proven through some biochemical study. I don't. And not only that it's it's worse if you actually bring it in demand. What do you do with that observation to say you know chemicals are associated with a certain vulnerability. It's akin to in my experience when some people say well can you make money with trust. You know how do I know it's going to be profitable. Never mind wonder. That's the wrong way to talk about trust. People who ask that question frankly are not going to be persuaded by however much data you could throw at it anyway. And I think the same is true here. If if somebody is questioning why should I be vulnerable citing the evidence of oxytocin levels is very unlikely to convince them. So what's the use of it. If you're a professional advisor a management consultant a financial advisor it's just not a very powerful argument. You know more powerful arguments are well so and so over here in out or think about the Oracle of Omaha you know. Here's what he did. Storytelling is more useful. Drawing on analogies is more useful surveys are more useful way down the list it is let me describe the chemical reaction that happens in people's heads when this issue comes up. So it's really an argument about utility and role and relevance.
Tripp: [00:22:46] When you say utility I think application is that.
Charles: [00:22:49] Yes.
Tripp: [00:22:49] OK. So. So in essence it's kind of like it's not showing us really anything new it may be showing us that the science says that it's something that that's there but it's not telling us anything that we didn't already know.
Charles: [00:23:06] Yes OK in a nutshell that's it. OK. Telling us anything we didn't already know. And furthermore it's not particularly useful in explaining things that even the people know. Okay. So yeah.
Tripp: [00:23:18] Okay. Yeah. I you know I sit there and as I reflect on you say I'm Deming's thinking and I'm trying to pull together some of the or you know theory of knowledge piece or philosophy piece with the only psychology piece which which you do definitely write to you don't see that neuroscience as an advancement on the psychology piece or giving us key insights about how people behave and why they behave that way.
Charles: [00:23:52] That's correct. And it is nothing to do with truth. I mean a description of a phenomenon like me raising my hand a biochemical description of that is 100 percent as accurate as a poetic description or a an argument from me understanding something in context. It's not a question of right or wrong. It is a question of relevance and impact and power.
Tripp: [00:24:13] Okay. All right. So I did so and I'm just going to kind of kind of go back through things because you're giving me a different way of looking at things this way. As your as your email did there.
Tripp: [00:24:25] There's also a gentleman by the name of Orin Clark. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He wrote a book called Pitch Anything.
Tripp: [00:24:33] So he's a guy who's a who is basically in the world of getting money for ventures basically. Right. So might be for movies some might be for business. It could be anything but he is basically that that's his common role and when it thinks he discovered and he was one of kind of first turned me on to all this is you know here are the reasons and there's a lot of it could be an interesting read for you. I'd be curious does that. Oh I don't get. Yeah. What what you're thinking is I. But he kind of pulled in you know the three parts of the brain. He talks about the crocodile brain the bad brain the neocortex and. And that when you're when you first meet somebody you know it's kind of like a fight or flight thing like that first e-mail I say to you you know do I want to write you know what I want to take this on or do I want to you know which. Which way do you want to go and how do I present. I think a lot of the strategies they had in the Trusted Advisor help mitigate some of those issues associated with that because the whole thing is about the things you've already talked about authenticity and those types of things. But he in essence took that process of pitching you know for money and different things and took parts of what I hope. I don't know that he would even say it was neuroscience but but things he learned from Malcolm Gladwell and folks like that.
Tripp: [00:25:57] And he started to say hey there's something here. When we pitch you know we need to be aware that for. For instance he talks about a lot about being the alpha versus the beta. That you get into what's called a beta trap meaning you have low status associated with it with where you are and you don't want to be there. You know how can you set up a situation where you're you don't have you know low status. So I see a lot of the strategies and maybe that's the wrong word to use that you talk about in the trusted advisor that kind of parallels some of things that that he's talking about in there but he's using the neuroscience or my words not his to kind of explain you know what's happening in the brain and why you need to be presented in a different way. And so I found that useful from my perspective because it's kind of like OK people are taking something and that's what made me start to dig deeper into this I'm reading every book I can find on neuroscience now just to you know what are people concluding. And you know interesting as I shared with you Dr. Zak and you know David Rock apparently at odds with each other. So I'm not sure of why but yeah.
Tripp: [00:27:12] So so there's I almost feel like we're in this world and where we got these kind of rough rocks if you will and they're all bouncing against each other and eventually all kind of smooth out into something and maybe it won't be. Maybe the path that you say you were not really learning thing we're new we're getting more reinforcement about kind of what we already knew anyway from interactions with people and in organizations.
Charles: [00:27:38] Yeah. Well again the I I was not aware of the conflict between Zak and David Rock. I'd be curious to find out what that is.
Charles: [00:27:48] But I'll bet you 9 to one. They both are in agreement or disagreement with what I'm talking about.
Tripp: [00:27:54] Yeah. But but again as I told you my my main thing is when people offer a perspective and you're obviously a just pick created and someone who's a een applying this for a long period time this person's got some something to say. And again that's why I wanted to have you on. You're very thoughtful in your in your approach to things and and you know I think people should hear. But you know what you have to say.
Charles: [00:28:18] I think you know just to stay on a little piece that you mentioned there you're really talking about persuasion and influence. Anybody who's interested in that. I find the most persuasive person in that area is Robert Cialdini who writes with I mean he's he's got legitimate scientific background but he writes more in the terms of pop psychology. Mm hmm. So he is first book called influence the science of persuasion lists. I think it's seven different factors that lead to human influence and some of them are pretty well-known. They're like act now supply limited or all your friends are doing it. It's telling to me and what I've taken from him and exploring the notion of trust. The first factor that he mentions and in his later life I see him mentioning more and more doesn't sound like that at all. It's the notion of reciprocity as in if I do X for you you will respond in like terms. It goes back to fight or flight. If I approach somebody in a friendly manner it improves the odds that they will react that way if I approach somebody in a an antagonistic fearful manner. You know you get back what you put out. And in fairness to Zak he actually mentioned his reciprocity yes at the front of his article as well he should. I think he's absolutely correct about that. The question I'm raising is having raised that which is the more powerful way to get that notion across to people in my own work. And again I spent 20 years in management consulting and another 20 doing this trust work. I have found it's far more important. For example are far more useful if I'm in front of a room and I'm trying to explain this notion of reciprocity a walk off the podium walk into the audience go up to some person smile at them lean over and extend my right hand in a gesture that we all know was a handshake.
Charles: [00:30:10] Well guess what. Every single time you do that that other person is going to reciprocate and they're going to shake my hand. Why. Because then it's just hard wired into the human psyche. I mean you can make a very good book on that ninety nine point nine times out of 100 that's going happen. You reciprocate now and so Zak and I agree on that. My question is who's more persuasive in standing in front of a room and explaining saying here's what's happened to the neurochemistry in your brain when I extend my hand. Or me saying let's look at a few examples. When you go into a sale and you do X or you do Y or when you're making a political speech do X or Y and when you look at this historical story that we all know from from literature what's going on here X or Y. Those are persuasive practical ways of getting a point across to human beings. And while there is nothing untruthful you can describe human beings one hundred percent in mechanical chemical ways. But depending on what you're trying to do that explanation is next to useless or it's terribly important. I mean let me be clear if we're trying to develop medicines pharmacological solutions understanding ways to improve brain surgery understanding certain psychological therapies I think the neuroscience stuff is critical. It's cutting edge. It's great. We should celebrate it and get more of it. But when you apply it to some of these other areas of inner human interactions you know and the utility is way down the list compared to things like storytelling examples engagement and so forth.
Tripp: [00:31:43] Okay. Yeah. And actually that's one of the things in pitch anything with a working class a part of the pitch is as a story to in order to ticket people's brains engage.
Tripp: [00:31:54] But I've got one thing I was gonna mention is I didn't actually read Robert's holding his Pre suasion book. I've not read the older and I have it the psychology influence of persuasion. There's a lot of great stuff in there.
Charles: [00:32:06] Oh definitely.
Tripp: [00:32:07] It's a very useful you know type type of book. There's another book I'd be curious on your thoughts about so called Decisive. And again it it it's written by Chip Heath. Oh yeah. And he talks about the fact that you know things like when you're going to make a decision.
Tripp: [00:32:30] People kind of narrow their focus in this kind of backs up some of the things Malcolm Gladwell talks about too as well especially if there's pressure on you. You have a tendency to narrow your focus and and by virtue of the fact that that your focus has narrowed narrowed that becomes kind of an either or type of condition when you're looking at making decisions as opposed to looking at multiple options. And he also then this into confirmation bias and you know he talks about you know things of that sort.
Tripp: [00:33:00] And and to me it starts to crossover and I think you know the fact I guess I guess this is what I kind of what I've concluded especially after going through some of Oren Klaff stuff. And even Danish stuff is you know the story has to be compelling. And one of the things his psychology seems to be old news and forget about philosophy philosophy is like all right.
Tripp: [00:33:28] Since the beginning a man right. You know associated with it and that's not to discount its importance in understanding although I have to say some of the philosophy books you know that are written are seem to be written for each other as far as philosophers go.
Tripp: [00:33:43] I mean I guess I can't get anything out of it.
Charles: [00:33:45] So right yes.
Tripp: [00:33:47] So it becomes very difficult and even Deming when he read Mind and the World Order you know he's he basically said started Chapter 7 and 8 it's that because there is the with. Yeah.
Tripp: [00:34:00] So because it's a little bit difficult to get something out of it I think people today and you know they're looking for that fresh thing and Oren Klaff really hits this hard.
Tripp: [00:34:12] I think even Sodini hits it hits it pretty hard is it has to be that that the newness of something gets people's attention.
Tripp: [00:34:20] And even if it's kind of the maybe not the right thing that they're looking for answers associated with Why is this happening and they're looking for fresh work even if it only supports what's actually already known right.
Tripp: [00:34:35] It hesitancy then to get people's attention.
Charles: [00:34:37] And I think that you know part of why the field of sales will never fall short. Everybody's looking for the newest band you know is like a breath short kind of reason going to be first in line. I mean what you just Yeah right is. I would call that kind of a universal attribute of people were looking for the newest shiny object.
Tripp: [00:34:55] Yeah. So it's in our nature you know like like say you like you like putting out your hand. Most people are gonna know that that's that's for a handshake.
Tripp: [00:35:03] It's kind of the same thing and so I'd say you know from one perspective because I've read you know and I've got many many more books so they want to read that you know associated with the subject neuroscience it's new. And people are saying what can I glean from this and maybe what they glean from it is the old lessons that we learned in philosophy that were then again really reinforced by psych. What did we learn anything really new there or was it just something that we conclude. I think and I don't I think it's too early to know whether neuroscience is going to have any any offering you know associated with that it's just there's too many I know for you kind of the podcast I don't know I think.
Charles: [00:35:45] I think that you know what we just said about newness and the attraction and the ability to let people discover new that's true. I don't think that's going to happen in this area. OK. I just by its nature I mean you know applying neuroscience to management and leadership is based on hope the thought the idea that if you can describe things in chemical terms it's going to lead to something you know terribly useful. I just don't see that happening much at all.
Tripp: [00:36:17] And I don't know how much of a play you know does it offer anything actually new I think is kind of where you go through its new science but does it offer anything new for the perspective that. But but if that's kind of a key that will help people.
Charles: [00:36:36] It's not it's not just new. It's also useful. Yeah I get a I'm I could I could given a new. Yeah this is you know neuroscience is new and fascinating just because of that. But is this going to be a useful again. I don't see it as any different than saying Oh maybe if we translate this into Latin IT'LL BE NO IT'S LIKE IT'S NOT GONNA BE USEFUL it's the same stuff.
Tripp: [00:36:59] Mm hmm.
Charles: [00:37:00] And I think it's it's a distraction. And by the way this is the neuroscience just through neuroscience. Let me not just pick on that. I do a lot with tech companies. You know Google LinkedIn etc..
Charles: [00:37:11] And as you can imagine the people who are adept in those areas they're super deep into analytical left brain explanatory deductive logical thinking and so forth. Those people tend to discount the more conventional wisdom soft skills stuff and so on. And in some ways that you know that the passion to describe for example I get a lot of requests.
Charles: [00:37:33] How do you measure trust. And my argument is Don't even go there. You know that then the compulsion to measure something is itself reflective of not really understanding the boundaries of usefulness. You know it's like if you had a conversation with your spouse and you said you know I want our marriage to get better why don't we set a baseline. Let's agree seventy nine point one on a scale of one hundred and then let's measure every week how I'm doing on improving our marriage if any spouse that I know of is likely to say get out of here. Don't treat this that way.
Charles: [00:38:12] And so the neuroscience is just one more in in an over inclination to reductionist thinking a little bit over belief that you know we'll discover the cures to all things if we can just get the the artificial intelligence stuff right and we can just scale. I mean look at what Zuckerberg is accused of continually thinking things are going to solve all these problems by just doing more connecting more people in more ways.
Charles: [00:38:38] Meanwhile there's issues and they come from exactly that kind of thinking well.
Tripp: [00:38:43] And you will find any argument from a Deming philosophy perspective. You know he would say the most important figures are unknown and unknowable. All right. So so so there's so yeah.
Tripp: [00:38:55] So from that from that perspective I would agree but maybe we are trained to measure something that that can't be measured can we gain new insights from neuroscience and how do we conduct or maybe a structure the way that the organizations I guess is kind of the question you're. But your response to that is you know kind of a definitive no no. That we're not going to get anything from it.
Charles: [00:39:22] Well again let's let's be clear. I would give ground I'd cede ground on whether we're gonna to learn something new and that's OK we'll say we're going to learn something new meaning in this case a different way of describing phenomena.
Charles: [00:39:33] The practical utility of that is really more of what I'm getting at. Yes. So if you can I would argue that about half of what we call trust. You can definitely measure about half a foot falls into the unmeasurable but even in the measurable. What do you do with the fact that you're going to measure it the default business response is let collect data on it. Let's break it down to the most discrete component that we can. Let's set goals and let's reward people for achieving those goals. Now if you're talking about something like reliability or credibility and you can you can somewhat do that. You can track people's performance against promises that's useful. But if you try to track people on are you achieving better vulnerability or even worse yet. are you benevolent beneficent towards your clients. Do you have your clients best interests at heart. Well if you start measuring how people have their client's best interests at heart and you start rewarding. For doing it you've just ruined everything. How do you reward people for being unselfish. It's self-contradictory. It causes people to mistake the measurement for the thing that it is supposed to be measuring and to behave in perverse ways. So I think that the ultimate question really is is it useful. And I guess that's my concern. It's not terribly useful.
Tripp: [00:40:48] So let me ask you this then Charles as far as what would be useful what's put us put neuroscience to the side here for a minute if we're to advance the thinking that's going on you know from a management perspective where would our time be best spent.
Charles: [00:41:07] Right. Well that's a great question. And let me answer it within the narrow purview of trust which is what I've focused on for 19 years now. It's a great example because trust also suffers from a lot of vagueness and lack of lack of definition.
Charles: [00:41:26] You've seen it all. All your listeners have seen hundreds of examples of headlines as saying new study shows trust in banking is down. Let's just take that kind of thing. Trust in banking is down and we all go out. I believe the study. I believe the statistical accuracy and relevance of whatever came up with. But what does that mean. It could mean one of at least two things it could mean that financial institutions like banks have become less trustworthy. You know just look at the news on Wells Fargo and. Or alternatively it could mean something very different which is that people over time and become less inclined to trust banks. That's a very different thing.
Charles: [00:42:03] The first one is a violation of trustworthiness and norms on the part of it would be trusted organization like a bank and they're in the right responses to that regulatory using the laws to prosecute hiring firing people and so forth. On the other hand if the problem is people become less inclined to trust banks that's a PR problem. That's a communications problem. Very different to go slightly analogous to that. The staff will tell you that in the United States in the last 20 years violent crime has gone down. That's a factual statement reduction in violent crime. At the same time fear of violent crime has gone up. So that's a case where it's the perception that the problem not not the crime itself. And if all you're doing is saying you know if you're a violent you know you're violent crime is up. Oh my gosh. That doesn't tell you.
Charles: [00:43:00] And I think it's like that in trust. So here's my answer you break it down it's practically humanly meaningful components and there are two there's a trustor and a trustee and the result of those two interacting is trust or lack of trust. The characteristics of a trust door to the person who initiates the trust interaction and they're taking a risk. That's the essence of of trusting the person who is trusted or wants to be trust dead is we call them trustworthy or not trustworthy. And the result of their interactions becomes a certain level of trust. So trust is a noun properly belongs to the result of the interactions. Trust is a verb properly refers to the person taking the risk and trustworthiness an adjective properly refers to those who would be trusted. Now you can actually do something. You know my little book The Trusted Advisor I think part of what made it popular was we had a simple for factor equation for describing trustworthiness. And most of our audience likes equations you know and that's their language. And we initially intended it just as a conceptual model for anybody interested it's credibility plus reliability plus intimacy all divided by self orientation. Two of those factors are kind of measurable and behavioral namely credibility reliability and the other to intimacy and low self orientation are much more interior psychological you know quote soft unquote kinds of things. It happens by the way that we have about eight years after we wrote the book it suddenly dawned on me Hey this a book a great many great self-assessment tool. So we pulled five questions together for each of those four factors. Five comes forward is 20.
Charles: [00:44:49] I don't know why I thought 20 was a good number and just seemed to forget and we put it up on the web and wait for the crowds to roll in. Well they trickled in but we've now had over a hundred thousand people take it and we can draw a couple of very clear and very interesting conclusions. I named two of them. Number one women score as more trustworthy than men. Not only that but almost all the outperformance of women on this score is due to their performance on one of those four variables. It's not credibility it's not reliability. It's not self orientation. It is intimacy. And by the way. If you sort of step back and say what would you guess. That's exactly what you guess. In fact I've given a talk about that Dana. Roughly 300 times and two hundred and ninety seven. Literally only three exceptions over the years I've been doing this. Which is about 1 percent only with only three exceptions. When I asked the group the crowd what do you think. They said women comments. And that's right up there with handshakes. Women I mean people say probably women and then asked the Guess Which factor. They're also pretty good at guessing intimacy. Now one more data point. There are lists surveys done by other you know by survey professionals Pew. Gallup Yankelovich who asked most and least trusted professions over the years and across different countries and very consistent results at the bottom of the list.
Charles: [00:46:15] You can guess politicians lawyers used car salesmen top of the list. People have a harder time guessing it's not lawyers it's not doctrines it's not teachers it is nurses nurses with with one exception in the past 20 years and then exception with the year 2002 where firemen were number one. That was the year after 9/11. Unsurprising but with every. And then the next year I went back to nurses. Nursing is an eighty nine percent female profession and if you had to pick one of those four attributes as defining the nature of successful nursing whether it's a male nurse or female nurse it's probably intimacy you know the job of a nurse is to make you feel completely comfortable sharing saying anything you know we are literally and figuratively naked in front of nurses. So it turns out when we ran a regression equation on the data that we had collected you know which of those four factors really is the most powerful describing trustworthiness it's intimacy and we you know we basically define intimacy as the ability to make other people feel secure and comfortable sharing things with you. Now is that is that scientific. Oh it's just the model that we came up with to heuristic we describe. you know what's going on.
Charles: [00:47:29] I don't argue that that has any more physical reality relevance than any other model. It just seemed to work pretty well and I still think it does. It's a common sensical definition and for what it's worth that's what the data show. And that also seems to get pretty general common sense affirmation. So what do you do with all that. That one's pretty clear. I can tell you what to do if you're an accounting firm if you're a law firm. If you're a tech support in a tech company you almost certainly need to get better at your intimacy skills. But what does that mean. That means having conversations in a certain way. It means having a certain amount of personal courage to bring up difficult subjects and to lead with it. It requires a little bit of internal development like you know get over your fight or flight take the risk of not all that bad. That's the kind of stuff you can do something with as opposed to 90 percent of what's out there on the subject of trust which is at the level of trust in banking is down or you know trust in Bolivia is slightly lower than Uruguay. Not that there's anything wrong with those descriptions but I don't think they give you a practical notion and that's kind of the same. The flip side of the argument I was having in neuroscience. What do you do with that right.
Tripp: [00:48:42] Well you know if it's history and probably so it can start to win this down a little bit. But you know in our emails back and forth you mentioned Alfie Kohn. Yeah. And you know so this gets into Debbie Deming philosophy with the four things you talked about earlier. Systems thinking theory variation theory knowledge and psychology and and one of the things that we find over and over again in organizations. No I can't say we did any at a depth of study but you know Dr. Deming worked with a number of and I've worked with many companies over the years is that reward systems drive wrong behavior.
Tripp: [00:49:20] Yes they do have an influence on an individual but right within the organization they will drive the wrong behaviors associated with it. So you know one of the things that that's coming from the neuroscience side is more what I would leverage to help support that thinking.
Tripp: [00:49:40] And that's that's kind of where I grasp on to it I think you know from a Deming perspective is you seen this stuff in there and then basically saying Yeah it does drive that. So in essence the wrong behavior. And here are the things and fundamentally you're right. I mean if I if I if I sat back and I looked at it it's not anything that people haven't written before but the fact that it is kind of new research that it gets people's attention to be able to say geez if if psychology is telling me that and philosophy is telling me that and systems thinking and telling me that in neuroscience maybe I shouldn't be doing that.
Tripp: [00:50:19] And yet even with Dan Pink's you know presentations Alfie come before him with you know can't. Contests and Punished by Rewards to books that really.
Charles: [00:50:29] Great books.
[00:50:30] Yeah. That that he wrote back in the Deming days right. Oh. When Deming was around. They still stand. And they science still stands but people just seem to ignore it. So.
[00:50:42] What does that tell you.
[00:50:43] It's in the culture. Like you said it's the handshake. You know everybody knows that it works. It does work. Nobody can refute the fact that rewards don't work. But it's how they're used and when they're used you know and associated with that. And you know Dr. Zak is a little bit familiar with Deming. So he I get a little concerned when I first started reading this book because he was with you like everybody else that I've written about neuroscience had kind of gotten into this. How do we make better a performance appraisals which is another thing. Deming railed against. Well. The answer is you don't do performance appraisals.
Charles: [00:51:17] Right.
Tripp: [00:51:17] I can give feedback without doing that. And you know so whether it's the reward systems or the performance appraisals some of the things that railed against all the science has pointed basically that we're we're doing this wrong and they talk about something that that compromises trust in an organization when bad behaviors are running. I've got to believe at least and maybe you have a different view on it is that were were designing systems or organizations in such a way that is self-defeating trust it just in the way that they're structured.
Charles: [00:51:58] Let me give you a quick story to that point.
Charles: [00:52:00] I was in first of all stories are very powerful because they help people come to conclusions without thinking they've been bamboozled into doing it. They want it allows them to put their own spin on it. I was standing I was giving a talk to the Top 40 or 50 so people at Accenture some years ago and before me was the CEO guy named Bill Green at the time.
Charles: [00:52:21] No no relation. And Bill Green had just finished outlining some huge reorganization for all of Accenture and somebody raised their hand and said Hey Bill have we lined up the incentives properly so that if I'm sitting in Australia get a call from our guy in Bulgaria I'm going to be incentive to do do the right thing and answer him. And Bill Green got visibly angry got up out of his chair on the stage. Any any leaned out any point and he said I never want to hear that question in this company again if there's ever any conflict between doing the right thing and the incentives. You do the right thing and we'll fix the incentives later.
Charles: [00:52:58] Now in that moment I mean it was a very impressive you know 40 people who were the leaders of Accenture got that message loud and clear in that moment. And that goes to how you actually do this stuff. You don't tweak the cheese for the rats in the maze. You do it by by leadership of living you know walking the talk all that stuff. You do it by repeatedly invoking a few principles and applying into very specific situations. So I think that the role of role modeling is particularly apt in and when it comes to trust. And my quick answer and then we're running out of time. My quick answer how you create this in an organization is don't do the incentives routine. This is higher level human stuff. What you do is you pick a few concepts a few principles and you relentlessly apply them. It doesn't have to be leaders who just have to be influential people who sign up by saying I think I know what we mean by transparency and right here this is an example.
Charles: [00:53:56] I think I know what you mean by collaboration and right here. This is what that means in this situation. So done right. There is room for tweaking and you know the various not nudges and all that kind of thing but the objective should be to create what I call a trust based organization which is an organization within which people individuals behave in trusting and trustworthy manners toward each other and towards all their stakeholders. It's not a characteristic of the organization. The key is not organization design. The key is certainly not metrics and rewards. It's creating an environment in which people behave in a trusting and trustworthy manner towards each other as individuals. And from that grows the culture and from that you can then say well this company is trusted.
Tripp: [00:54:42] Brilliant. Well said that's a that's not only a great example. But that's that's a probably a good way to conclude this although I do have one last question I ask everyone. It's when I people actually make fun of me for which is Is there anything that I fail to ask that you wish I would have. Or is there any clarification of anything that you've said to this point that that you'd like to take the opportunity to to shall offer.
Charles: [00:55:09] I'll offer one quick thing. The question you didn't ask is What's the one single thing people can do to increase trust and and actually as a simple answer we could spend another hour unpacking it. But it's basically listen and it's not listen to find the data it's not listen to verify your hypothesis. It is. As a sign of respect it functions just like the handshake. If you really listen to someone and something is very clear about this they will listen back. So if you want to be listened to if you want people to buy from me if you want people take your advice. The key is shut up and listen and allow the natural human response of reciprocating. And then they'll listen to you and everything gets better. So the key is listening.
Tripp: [00:55:49] Excellent. Very good. Well we certainly appreciate you sharing your time Charles. And like I said.
Charles: [00:55:56] My pleasure Tripp. Thank you.
Tripp: [00:55:57] Oh it's been I mean you've opened my mind quite a few things in this conversation. I'm sure you do that on a regular basis and people will appreciate that.
Tripp: [00:56:09] So thank you very much.
Charles: [00:56:11] Thank you.
Tripp: [00:56:18] Thank you for listening to the minor noodles podcast. We are currently offering a PDA titled Five surprising findings from neuroscience to help you understand your organization. Just go to Mind Your noodles. dot com forward slash five findings.
Tripp: [00:56:41] No spaces. Also if any listeners know of. companies or people applying neuroscience to their organization we are interested in talking to them. Just have them email me at Tripp to our IP. at minor noodles dot com.
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This is the fourth episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode our guest is Dr. Paul Zak. In this episode our guest is neuroeconomist and author, Dr. Paul Zak. In this episode you'll learn about the chemical that leads to high trust found in successful companies and prosperous countries. You'll also learn what tools he uses to study the brain. The neuroscience of fear and trust and the one key to making a brain friendly organization.
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This is the third episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode our guest Storyteller, Park Howell. Tripp: He discusses the massive disruption in advertising/marketing that got him into storytelling. How stories have been coached out of us and how to craft a great story.
Show Notes [00:00:06]
Mind Your Noodles Podcast
[00:00:53]
Par Howell: Storytelling
[00:03:00]
A Student of Storytelling
[00:03:50]
Advertising and Branding as Disrupted
[00:05:16]
What Does Hollywood Know that Park Didn't
[00:05:55]
Hero's Journey and How It Plays
[00:07:17]
Park Helps Reveal Our Story
[00:08:19]
Education Has Beaten the Creativity and Storytelling Out of Us
[00:08:57]
The Gordon MacKenzie Story
[00:09:26]
Orbiting the Giant Hairball
[00:14:37]
How to Build Story - Applied Science and Bewitchery of Story
[00:15:39]
How Not to Be an MBA Zombie
[00:16:24]
The Story/Narrative Structure
[00:18:54]
Dr. Randy Olson and South Park
[00:20:33]
ABT - And But and Therefore Structure
[00:22:22]
Example of ABT in Action
[00:24:47]
Gettysburg Address is ABT
[00:26:47]
Modern ABT Orator is Donald Trump
[00:27:41]
Dr. Olson Saw Trump's Message and Knew He would Win
[00:28:42]
Dr. Randy Olson Podcast the Day After 2016 Presidential Election
[00:32:45]
Jonathon Haidt - Stories for Good or Evil
[00:37:39]
5 Things Affect People at Work Mentally
[00:40:15]
Breaking Down Fairness
[00:42:18]
Belonging and Relatedness
[00:45:12]
Freedom.Autoonomy
[00:47:18]
My Deming Takeaways
[00:50:59]
The 5 Skills that Storytelling Helps Improve
[00:57:04]
What Park is Reading Today
Transcript Tripp: [00:00:06] Take care of the brains that take care of you. with the Mind Your Noodles podcast will keep you up to date on the latest neuroscience research and practices to keep your brain healthy. And strategies to help your organization be brain friendly. In the third episode of Mind Your Noodles Park Howell. a story teller is our guest. He discusses the massive disruption in advertising/marketing that got him into storytelling. How stories have been coached out of us and how to craft a great story.
Tripp: [00:00:53] Hi I'm Tripp Babbitt and our guest today is Park Howell of Park and company who has a business in storytelling but more importantly has a podcast on storytelling and I found his podcast really captivating because he's so interested and so dedicated to storytelling. He's had many people on that have basically shined a light on how to do storytelling and I just thought well here's a guy with a vast amount of knowledge just not only from interviewing people but but being a practitioner of storytelling that I had to have him on.
Tripp: [00:01:34] It just made sense and from a neuroscience standpoint other people that I've talked to or in class who read a book called pitch anything talks about the narrative versus the analytical if you're pitching somebody if somebody is in the analytical state that they're only using two regions of their brain and if they're in a narrative state that that they're using seven regions so there's many neuroscience things.
Tripp: [00:02:00] Normally I do more of an introduction Park but since storytelling is your thing I thought maybe we'd start with you telling your story about how you got into storytelling your background of Tripp.
Park: [00:02:14] Thank you so much for having me here. I'd always love to talk about storytelling because I am so curious about it myself and every time I'm on one of these programs I learn something new. I was just training the last two days in New Orleans I'm back here in rainy Phoenix Believe it or not and I was working with the supply association out there and 60 of their member companies and I went took them through a day and a half masterclass on how to use storytelling to engage and motivate their people as well as to sell in a very very commoditized left brain business of industrial supply and I pulled three or four nuggets away from them on how their minds work around story and not the neuroscience of it but their actual experience doing it.
Park: [00:03:00] So now I'm just I'm just I'm a student of storytelling as much as anybody. And then I like to share what I find when I find that it works really really well. My back story starts with you introduce me as part how will the founder president of parking company and you're right about that that was my ad agency that I started in nineteen ninety five and I ran for 20 years and I still have a parking company as my overall corporation but what I am really doing now is I pivoted away from that traditional slash digital ad agency world and now I can consult teach coach and speak on the power of story to help leaders of purpose driven brands clarify their stories to amplify their impact and simplify their life.
Park: [00:03:50] So that's my brochure headline what really happened. Tripp is advertising and branding as I knew it as I experienced and as I practiced it stopped working in 2006. It just wasn't nearly as effective as it had been when all we had to worry about was doing advertising and branding on radio TV billboards print your newspaper public relations events direct mail and we didn't have to deal with Yelp what happened of course is the inter webs were really starting to blossom about this time everybody was getting a Web site some of them working someone not so much in social media was starting to come around and we had experienced and saw this paradigm shift happening where brands used to own the influence of mass media those mass media vehicles I just mentioned and now it was all changing technology was changing it to where the masses the people had become the media and even more so now than ever. You know 13 years later they own the brand story they own your brand story and it has impacted how we communicate internally externally and everything about our world. Well when that happened and I didn't realize what was going on at the time I just knew we weren't as effective as we had used.
Park: [00:05:16] Had been before I started studying storytelling primarily you know precisely Hollywood storytelling. What did screenwriters in Hollywood and Hollywood executives know about knitting together a narrative in very high stakes world of Hollywood where they're spending tens and sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars on a story. So you're thinking that total commerce play here. What did they know that I could learn from so that I could help our brands and our customers and clients be more persuasive using. These same types of tools.
Park: [00:05:55] And that's really when I started studying story screenwriting and saw the pattern the universal pattern of the hero's journey and how it played out throughout our lives throughout pop culture throughout politics throughout religion and realize that this framework to story was embedded in our psyche and we didn't even realize it. And that's when I just tapped into it and thought well what if we could be intentional about it. And I could teach business leaders and owners how to use this proven framework that's been around since literally the beginning of time that is embedded like software in the hardware or the webware if you will of our brain to help people do a better job of connecting and moving people to action. And that's how it all began. You know the rest of it is kind of history and it's completely changed the arc in the narrative and the story of my life now that I literally could still teach coach and speak on the power story around the world. I'm leaving on Sunday for New Zealand to work with a bunch of social media gurus down there and some companies and then up to Melbourne and back to Phoenix in two and a half weeks and I got to tell you I am just having a blast because I see how powerful this is and how people can really connect with it and use it in that.
Park: [00:07:17] It's not something that I invented. It's something that lies dormant or latent in all of us. And my job purely is to reveal it to people and give them the frameworks that they can become intentional storytellers to as I say somewhat theoretical theatrically or theoretically to help them nudge the world in any direction they choose.
Tripp: [00:07:43] Fascinating. I mean when I when I listen to you talk and even some of the interviews that you've done obviously reinforce this type of thinking that everybody has a story within them to share and tell kind of the world if you will about what they're about their purpose you know why they're here. How do people then draw on that. What are they missing. Maybe it would be a good place to start. Why. Why isn't everybody just doing this. I mean it sounds simple enough. I mean it's you know it's just stories. You know what you get.
Park: [00:08:19] It's coached out of us. It's coached out of us at a very young age. Think about a Tripp we were all at the tops of our storytelling games in kindergarten and we lived them. We made them up and then we got to the first grade and then the second grade and we get educated and most of us grew up in the old industrial complex of education be quiet sit in your chair draw between the lines and I can't even tell you how many times I was told Park stop telling stories when I was growing up.
Park: [00:08:57] There's a fascinating guy by the name of Gordon McKenzie and he was an illustrator creative for Hallmark cards back in the day when it was just that really family feel good. Hallmark Cards organization. He was brilliant always pushing the envelope and they were afraid and he was afraid that they were kind of holding him back and they didn't want to lose him and his team around him. So they allowed him to begin Shoe Box greetings.
Park: [00:09:26] You know that little bit more irreverent sub brand of Hallmark cards because they knew what a brilliant mind this guy had. Well he did something that he talks about in his book called circling the giant hairball which is a fabulous read about for lunch today. It's about how corporations suck you know the creative daylights out of us if you let them. Well what he does or did is he would go back into grammar schools and try to encourage these kids to hold on to their artistic abilities no matter what they were taught. And he tells the story of going into the first grade walking into the better the classroom looking around and seeing all this wonderful artwork on the wall and he would ask the class who is the artist that did all of this beautiful artwork. And every kid that room's hand would shoot up every single kid he said then he could walk two doors down on the same floor in the same school and walk into the second grade classroom look up see all the artwork on the wall and he would ask the same question who's the artist here. They did all this beautiful artwork and only half the hands of the room would go up by the third grade a third of them would go up you would see where this is going Oh yeah I got to the fifth and sixth grade he was lucky to get one two or three hands to raise to say yeah I'm an artist and here's my expression of what I do. Well I believe the exact same thing has happened to us with our storyteller.
Park: [00:10:52] We are homo sapiens. Stories are unique to us. No other organism as we know it. Tell stories in the way that we can create these fictional imagined realities to get people to live into them. But in school all the way through college heaven forbid MBA world and PHD world our education systems and then our subsequent organizations do not recognize the storyteller in us. They do not teach us how to use those storytelling tools that are innate in our bodies and they don't encourage us to do so. But I'm saying that that is starting to change and more and more organizations are realizing you know we got to bring more creativity and persuasive abilities out of people and these core elements are all based in storytelling so I can tell you from a guy that got two degrees I got a bachelors in music composition and theory where you are actually looking at the storytelling parameters of creating a piece of music. I didn't realize that at the time when I got that degree. But in hindsight I see what that's all about. It's essentially the applied science of music creation and then I also got a degree in journalism and public relations and I can tell you that the closest I got to anybody teaching me about storytelling was in the journalism side was learning the inverted pyramid which is a way to tell a story in a very structured newspaper way but not really how people sit across from each other and share anecdotes and oral stories that connect their two worlds and bring people together to move them for a more powerful future.
Tripp: [00:12:39] You know it's interesting I see a lot of parallels. I do another podcasts I do it's called Driving Eureka! and it's with a gentleman named Doug Hall and now he doesn't focus necessarily on the narrative. He he he. It's very because of my background might my listeners know that I do the Deming Institute podcasts and I'm in to the work of W. Edwards Deming that you have to have an aim you have to have a purpose associated with your business and then Doug brought in kind of the narrative that you have to have this compelling narrative in order to have innovation for people to kind of get excited about participating you know because making more money for shareholders and or for the executives doesn't or isn't always a compelling story for people to to buy into. So He came along first one that I ran into started talking about narrative and and being able to come up with a story but that's not his focus per say uses more the focus on the narrative his is more on coming up with big ideas for innovation. The parallel there is this this creativeness that seems to be how he talks about in essence the same things that it's all been beaten out of us over a period of time because of the schools that we went to and and just the way that business and education are structured in such a way that it doesn't allow for us to be very creative. So in getting to the a better narrative a better way of going about and building a narrative. What are the elements of things that need to be contained within it as you found from your interviews and and your consulting work.
Park: [00:14:37] Yeah great question. You know I call it at the business of story the applied science and bewitchery of story because you have to have both. You have to understand the magic at the applied science to cast the spell to actually be effective at it.
Park: [00:14:54] Now coming through the school and the higher level degrees we get in the bigger organizations we go into and the more we climb that chain what are we taught. We're taught to look smart sound smart lead with logic make rational arguments about changes and things you want to have to do. And yet that flies in the face of everything that we know about humanity that we are not rational creatures.
Park: [00:15:21] We are first and foremost irrational emotional creatures and I'd say if you don't even need brain science and neuroscience to look at this just ask yourself when was the last time you were bored into buying anything.
Tripp: [00:15:36] Never.
Park: [00:15:39] So I didn't need a test tube for that just test your experiences. So we are taught though from again this industrial complex approach to education is to be cogs in the industrial wheel. Wherever they plug us in I've got a program called How Not to become an MBA zombie where they can turn that data and their logical left brain that they've been working so hard with into right brain emotion because we all buy with our hearts and we justify that purchases with those purchases with our heads with the logic but where we make the mistake in business as we always lead with logic when we should lead with emotion and back up the context of that with logic and here's how you do it.
Park: [00:16:24] Here's how you hook the primal brain of any and every homo sapiens and that is think in narrative structure narrative intuition of setup problem resolution.
Park: [00:16:38] Now we're already taught this as MBA is stand up comics call about setup complication punch line Hegel the famously famous theorist said in every argument the dialectic is based on thesis someone states a claim makes a thesis the debater has antithesis. They they state the exact opposite of that. And then you have synthesis through the arguments through the debate. You come to a common ground somehow somewhere.
Park: [00:17:08] Where does this stand from you outcomes. Aristotle talked about every story has to have a beginning a middle and an end. I mentioned earlier my background in music composition and theory. I was told when I was studying this in the early 80s that Mozart's a lot of sonnet Sonata Allegro form is totally based on three act story structure of exposition development and resolution setup problem resolution. It didn't mean anything to me at the time but when I started studying story that all came back in my mind and so you even look at the power of thirds and photography our brain for whatever reason is set up in these thirds give me a setup to something then make it a complication to intrigue me and to give me a problem that I have to solve or a conflict I have to overcome and then show me what the resolution is and what we've learned by looking at anthropology and looking at some of this brain science that you talked about and believe me I'm no neuroscientist but I know enough that I read and I can kind of connect the dots in some of the stuff just totally makes sense to me is that we use this setup problem resolution mode as simply problem solving monkeys because that's what we are is problem solving monkeys. I want to know what you're going through Tripp and what hole you tripped into. Pardon my pun and how you got out of it simply so that I can live vicariously through you to learn what I would do in case it ever happens to me and I get to do it from the safety of my recliner if I'm reading your story or watching you on TV or the safety of Skype if you're sharing that with me.
Park: [00:18:54] So the basic function I want your listeners to think about the applied science to begin with the literal DNA of story is setup problem resolution and a Dr. Randy Olson Harvard trained evolutionary biologist is the one that introduced this to me. this idea of and but and therefore. And he got it from the most surprising place especially from a Harvard trained evolutionary biologist. Randy also went on to become a filmmaker. Graduating from USC film school in his mid to late thirties he produced three documentaries on climate change global warming but more importantly he wrote three books to teach scientists how to do a better job of using narrative and story to communicate their big thinking ideas to get more money in their grant proposals. And it just makes sense to the rest of us. And he's the one that taught me the end but therefore and he got it. But the most surprising place of all for this guy and it was from Southpark the TV show. The animated TV series and there's a video online on YouTube called Six Days to Air where Trey Parker and Matt Stone talk about what they do when they produce each show within six days starting with concepts and scripting and they say they do this thing called Rule replacement. They take out ads in the script and replace them with butts in their fours to keep the momentum to keep the story going forward.
Park: [00:20:33] Well when Dr. Olsen saw this he realized this whole constructive set of problem resolution has been called lots of different things but it was really plainly laid out to him when he watched this particular video. And now I teach it everywhere. It's the first step to understanding how to start. Using the structure of narrative in everything you do and the greatest place to use it is in your emails. And it's this make a statement of agreement then use an "and" to increase its importance. Then throw in a "but" to introduce conflict or contradiction that flies in the face of what you said or is out to thwart its progress and then "therefore" to resolve the situation. And you can use this in anything it is it gets you singularly focused on the theme of your narrative and the theme of your story that you can then expand on. So it's clarifying your own story. It amplifies the impact with your audiences because you're not making them work for this theme. They see it front and center and they thank you for that. And then it totally simplifies your life because it makes your communication easier. You move people faster and it like it is like the single most powerful tool in my complete story business of story tool box that I have found that anybody can apply because it's basically how our brains are wired to make sense out of the madness of being human beings.
Tripp: [00:22:01] Well let me ask you this. I mean and it seems simple. I mean we as you as you articulate it. I in my brain it's saying okay. I could do that could get. Can you give me a just a real simple example of how that plays out other than maybe watching South Park. That's you ask.
Park: [00:22:22] Sure. All right. I used it on you at the beginning of the show when you asked me about my backstory. So let me unpack it for you and how I use it. So you had asked me what is your backstory. I can tell you I've been the advertising marketing branding world for 35 years and I've helped a lot of purpose driven brands grow through the power of mass media. But in 2006 we saw a paradigm shift as a tech now technology completely leveled the playing field and now the masses are the media and they own your story. Therefore we have to communicate completely differently than we were taught. And now I consult teach coach and speak on the power of stories to help people clarify their stories amplify their impact and simplify their life. There is my total narrative moving forward caught in an and but and therefore and it can be told in a one floor elevator pitch. I don't need to go any further than the second floor to be able to explain that and everybody in the room knows exactly what I'm talking about. I have at least set the context. So again what you want to do is a statement of agreement. You don't want to come off as the experts on my case.
Park: [00:23:38] I just said I've been around for thirty five years nobody can argue with that. It's just what it is. And you want to raise the stakes to that and it helped a lot. I've been successful at it. I've helped a lot of businesses achieve using the influence of mass media so that's act 1. I don't got to tell anything anymore but in business what we then do is typically is and and and and and are our people to death. And that's when they just get this guy out of here is a bore. So you do a rule of replacement take out your next stand and get to your problem that you're solving for. But technology has changed how we communicate and therefore I teach the primal power of story to help you rise above the cacophony of communication that we all compete in today so you can see how that and but and therefore it gets you thinking in a very focused way. For example when I first saw it and I've been accused as Randy has that it's reductive and insulting it can't possibly be that easy but I can tell you it is the most powerful form and it's not easy it's something that you have to practice.
Park: [00:24:47] When I first heard about it I did some research and I I looked at the Gettysburg Address the Gettysburg Address is a perfect and but therefore "ABT" as we call it. Three I struck it absolutely is when you look at it. You know fourscore and seven years ago which is another way of saying you know once upon a time because President Lincoln was such a fantastic narrator or orator storyteller and he you know he says this this great continent this great country was formed and then he moves into the next part of however which is another way of saying but here we gather on this great battlefield with all this mass destruction that is tearing this country apart. Therefore we can't consecrate this ground we know because we ourselves have not died here. But we need to pull together as a as a country to make sure that we keep all of our rights and the Constitution together. Now I'm totally paraphrasing here but look at the. And button therefore the Gettysburg Address and you'll see that it is perfect and button therefore perfect three act structure. Now here's the question. Tripp. Who spoke before Lincoln at the Gettysburg Address. Because Lincoln believed that.
Tripp: [00:25:58] He was the second speaker Yeah. And he spoke I all I remember as he spoke for like two hours or something hours. Yeah I don't know who it was.
Park: [00:26:07] The President wasn't even the keynote. It was Edward Everett. He was the former secretary of state self-proclaimed order. He spoke for two hours and yet nobody knows who that is. Lincoln spoke for just two minutes. Two hundred and seventy words is all he. All he needed to use and think about it is probably one of the most if not the most iconic speech ever given by a leader or a president for that matter. And there is great perfect story structure and he didn't know about the ABT because he didn't watch South Park back then. But he was a natural storyteller.
Park: [00:26:47] Now who else among us of our presidents use the ABT unwittingly but had tremendous narrative intuition to get elected to the highest post in the free world.
Tripp: [00:27:02] 0h I would guess Reagan.
Park: [00:27:04] Reagan was pretty good at it but someone even more unsuspecting. And yet when you think about it very obvious is Donald Trump. OK. Well what was Donald Trump's narrative platform.
Tripp: [00:27:18] I mean immigration. Yeah. None of his support. I wonder why when one day he talked about for a long time was a I remember even being on Oprah was about trade. Was it was it was a very bad thing. Yeah. Those are two that stick out in my mind. Anyway.
Park: [00:27:37] I'm going to build a wall in Mexico.
Tripp: [00:27:40] OK yeah.
Park: [00:27:41] No that's that's all we're going to give a big tax cut to the rich. We're gonna have Reagan trickle down theory and all that but those are just support points. What he got elected on the ABT. He got elected on you go back to all of his speeches was America was once a great and mighty nation. But America is no longer great. Therefore I'm going to make America great again setup problem resolution he hammered it home over and over and over again and I can tell you I had Dr. Randy Olson on my podcast The day after the election and the reason being is he had worked with the Democrats and the Hillary group and he had worked along with you know James Carville and he told them he said You guys are going to lose to Trump if you don't get a more refined defined and compelling narrative and tried to teach them this ABT and they sort of pooh poohed him and sort of laughed him out of the room.
Park: [00:28:42] So when I called him up the day after the election we were both rather stunned. He was actually down I believe he was at NASA working with some of their scientists down there through the ABT and I said Randy I got to put you on my podcast and he said I'm just good god damn upset I am too mad to be on your show I said exactly. That's why I need to have you on air. I want that emotion to come through.
Park: [00:29:02] So I had him on the show that afternoon and we talked about it and you can sell your listeners I don't have the show number in front of me. They can go and look back the day after the allows put it in. I put on my shirt. And he talked about Trump's narrative intuition of where you know where he gets this and of course his reality TV show he's a brander that doesn't look good for the rest of us brands. He's a bit of a charlatan a bit of a P.T. Barnum but he has tremendous narrative intuition of knowing how to do a setup then you're putting the dagger into the problem and always placing himself as the resolution the narcissist he is. Here's here's why this works. But there is a great example of how narrative works on the population even though he didn't win the popular vote. He won a lot of Americans over and still has them today because of that. Now we did that show and I can tell you of all the shows I've done almost four years worth of them now. That is the only show that I got hate mail on. Oh I got hate mail from friends. They were calling me out saying why are you glorifying this guy. I'm not all Dr. Olsen I did. We're just want to reveal what's going on. And the thought to me at that time and one of my answers to them was you have to understand the magic if you're going to combat the spell. You gotta know what he's doing to you and how he does it through the stories he tells you. If you're going to combat it over you can have arguments again it gets it.
Park: [00:30:33] And now I've turned that to a more positive outlook. And I say folks if you're a leader of a purpose driven brand you have to understand the magic to cast the spell in the first place. And that's what I find. That's why I call it the applied science knowing these frameworks and The Bewitchery of story because you can literally hook the subconscious the limbic system of your audiences get them to lean into you to tell them more share an anecdote. And I can give you the next framework that I use in sharing an anecdote and then asking them to do something having a call to action or if you've hooked them so much at that point their hearts are totally into it their emotions totally into it and then finally they go whoa whoa wait a minute this just sounds too good to be true. Proof it out for me. Then you roll out your stats and your facts and your numbers and to demonstrate that now you can actually measure this stuff it works. And that's why I have found and moved away purely from being a branding guy and helping people in all walks of life how to do a better job of understanding narrative in their lives building them because my whole goal now is to bring this completely divided world that we all live in together to try to bring it together through the understanding and the empathy of being really good and just reigniting that one true superpower that we all have in our minds and our brains and our bodies. And that's the power of storytelling.
Tripp: [00:31:58] Well that's you know it's interesting that you use the analogy I usually try to stay out of the politics of things but. It's such a fascinating thing that you're talking about here because a lot of people will say that Obama was the great orator or Reagan was the great orator know know much.
Tripp: [00:32:17] But what you're saying is the messaging and the storytelling format in essence that that Trump used was more effective than than what the other two or. Or do they use the same format. In other words did Reagan and Obama use the same format but they didn't run against each other obviously. But but you know it's used in a different way. How would you assess that.
Park: [00:32:45] Yeah that is a great question. And the person the brilliant mind I would point you to to this who I just literally had on my show two weeks ago I was so honored to have him was Jonathan Haidt OK. He's one of America's foremost moral psychologists. He's written three terrific books. The Happiness Hypothesis where they looked at the ancient wisdom of everything from Buddhism to stoicism and they all related into what we know about the brain in this day and age and so this kind of intersection of today's science over what did the ancients know about this and how it comes together so that an interesting person for you if you haven't had him on the show or followed to look into. That's a great first book but a book that I'm referring to now that came out a few years ago is called that he wrote The Righteous Mind Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion and in it he talks about these six moral foundations like safety care sanctity loyalty that we all as human beings tend to lean towards to make sense out of being human and not running around killing each other.
Park: [00:33:57] But in the book he talks about how we approach these same morals from completely different perspectives where the far right will approach say for instance what's the term I'm thinking oh I don't have them right in front of me equality they will approach equality from a completely different standpoint than the left liberal leaning will approach Equality Now the left will say look at we're all human beings and we're all equal so we should all have an equal stab at everything but the right mind says there are equalities based around proportionality. It's gosh is that equality. I'm not sure I've got that exactly right. Jonathan will kill me for it but it will trigger this is it going to.
Tripp: [00:34:47] Be good reason for people listen to that podcast episode and again I put that in the show notes it's about put it link to it.
Park: [00:34:52] Proportionality you know where they look at I've done my fair share fairness that's what it's not equality it's fairness My my apologies fairness the left comes from an equality standpoint look at we're all equal to be fair everybody should have a free shot at everything no matter what the Republicans the far right come at it as fairness as proportionality you earn what you work for. So to be fair why should I give someone a handout when this other person is working their tail off so you can see the tax cut for the upper income earners doesn't fit doesn't sit well on the left because they're like look at everybody should have that tax cut on the far right they're like why should you you know penalize these people just simply because they worked hard and got ahead so they're both coming at fairness for their own reasons they're just coming at them from a completely different polar opposite way it's the stories they tell themselves the stories they grown up in nurtured in a little bit of nature is involved in this but the true expert on this is Jonathan Haidt and I have learned so much. His most recent book he came out with last. Last year I think that last spring is called the Coddling of the American Mind - Why Good ideas and bad intent or bad ideas and good intentions are setting up a generation for failure. And again it comes back to this concept of what we know about the brain and how we tell ourselves stories and in some cases we're telling ourselves the wrong stories and we're setting up people for some really potentially poor outcomes.
Tripp: [00:36:27] You know this is an issue and actually it's actually a good segue here and kind of into my next conversation conversations can be a little more forward looking but as I've studied some of the neuroscience stuff that's out there and we look at organizations and you brought up fairness and that's what kind of triggered in my head. This might be a good time to enter it in. There are five things that if you're an employee of a company that really affect kind of your mental state if you will. And this is one of the things that. I'm trying to get out in this kind of building. How do I build up brain friendly organization. But the five things are basically good faith or fairness as you would say a sense of belonging. You know you have your best friends at work that you work with on a daily basis. Those things get threatened. Layoffs have a tendency to that you have freedom the autonomy associated with the work that you do do it. Do I have a say or is everything kind of dictated to me on a daily basis here.
Tripp: [00:37:39] Here. Here's your process. Just follow the process and then if you get out of order we got a manager is going to come beat you over the head. The other is predictability. You know that there's a certain certainty about what's going on in other words no layoffs are coming. You know don't hide it. You know we're we're in a financial dire straits here associated with it. And actually that kind of feeds back into the fear fairness component because leaders these days don't do well I should. In the US especially where in Japan. If they were gonna have to take cut the first things you cut would be executive salaries you know manager salaries and then they would go to the dividend and then they would go to the employee. We don't quite follow that that that prescription. And then the fifth thing beyond the predictability is is the standing within the organization if you're standing gets compromised in an organization these are all things that can affect your daily output. And so when I'm the question I'm going to ask you Park is how can we utilize you know communication obviously is a big issue with an organization. And I see the storytelling as you know potential fix or certainly part of a fix associated with trying take to keep people and a brain friendly type of an environment.
Tripp: [00:39:12] How might we be able to communicate to employees using storytelling to keep that kind of brain friendly atmosphere with some of the things not only that I just told you which probably are going to be new to you. I expect a you know a detailed answer but but associate with the things that you've learned so far from your interviews and your own consulting work and and so forth. How might we utilize storytelling to help you know in that environment.
Park: [00:39:43] Sure. Great great question. Just think of me right now as that war torn veteran. Just come back from the front of corporate America of teaching and battling and trying to get everybody on the same page moving forward through the use of story. And I'll just share with you what I've experienced so let's just take a quickly in order. What was your very first one belonging.
Tripp: [00:40:10] Well I think though the first when we I started kind of at the bottom of my list doesn't really matter the orders.
Park: [00:40:15] OK.
Tripp: [00:40:15] Is not significant but you mentioned fairness as as part of our conversation. And so fairness is certainly one of them or good faith.
Park: [00:40:24] OK.
Tripp: [00:40:24] And that gets compromised and that's that's you know people they think that they're being underpaid or that you did something unfair to them within an organization. Boom you know that's not that's got to come back.
Park: [00:40:36] Yeah well let's start right there with fairness. OK all right. So what do stories ultimately deliver well told truthful stories deliver trust they've got to be truthful they have been well told. So even if it's bad news if you are hiding behind a fictitious story because you don't want to share the bad news your audience your employees your customers know it. They just sense it innately. So the thing that worked with a story a story delivers the trust truth that creates the trust. So all fairness is going to come out of trusting you and whether it's a positive story or a negative story as long as it's a truthful story. You've got to lead with that. So what do a lot of managers you know hide behind as my good friend Kathy Clossguess says jargon monoxide. They will come in and they'll try to buy a funeral row you know dodging questions and not answering and throwing out numbers and trying to confuse the mind versus sitting down and saying honestly folks this is what's happening. Here's the setup here's where we were. But then this does happen. Therefore we now have to have to do this. And the outcome looks like this and here's how you can be a part of that. So it goes back to basic basic narrative structure and the function of a story a story. Delivers the truth that creates the trust you are not going to develop trust any other way than to develop as a leader using your narrative instincts. All right. The one thing that I've seen out there.
Tripp: [00:42:16] Okay.
Park: [00:42:17] So what's a what was another one.
Tripp: [00:42:18] I'll give you the other ones and you just pick even don't go through it all of them. But OK you bet. There's a there's related ness or belonging within the organization. There is freedom you know autonomy associated with making your own decisions about your work. Predictability about knowing kind of what's up and coming and then they're standing your social standing associated with it.
Park: [00:42:41] Let's just take belonging for a second OK an organization and I hear this a lot from companies that I work with that are mid-market companies that have grown. They've got a terrific business model but they don't have their business or brand story pulled together. One of the angst I get from them is like geez Park we are growing so fast we're adding five or 10 or 15 new people do bodies every month and we don't have a consistent story for them to buy into to align with and to pull in all the same direction. So if a company is missing that narrative and that narrative is basically based off of their origin story why did we start this in the first place. Here's what we make. But more importantly here's what we make happen in the people and the communities we serve. If they don't have that narrative in place how is an employee going to attach their own personal story and their own narrative to the brand's narrative to create that belonging. So what happens quite often is when companies do this and they get their narrative straight and say this is truly and honestly what we're all about and we now evolve from a origin story into a quest journey story here's where we're moving into the future.
Park: [00:43:58] And here's how you can help. Sometimes they get their own employees to vote themselves off the island because they go Wow I guess I guess I'd never thought of it that way. You know what. I'm not really sure I'm the right person to be here. Nor does it really serve my narrative. I think I'm gonna go and do something else which is totally fine because you're doing them and yourself a favor. But more often not you know what happens and not are the people that go Oh my God. This is why I came here in the first place I intuitively knew this was the right place. Now you showed it to me and my own personal story my own personal narrative does meld and weave into the narrative of the greater organization and therefore I feel like I belong stories create that belonging but without a story you just have people out kind of like you know sailing in the night not in a cloudy night at that. Not really sure where they're going they know they're heading in some direction but they have not a clear picture as to where they're going. That's not the case.
Tripp: [00:44:59] That's that was such a fantastic response. Now I'm going to make you go through the other three.
Park: [00:45:04] Alright.
Tripp: [00:45:05] I'm going to put the pressure on you.
Park: [00:45:06] I don't know if you think least least relates to story.
Tripp: [00:45:12] Least that relates the story is I would say probably freedom the personal autonomy associated with your work. I mean nobody really cares about that right.
Park: [00:45:26] Right. OK. And so why. Let's look at that why don't people really care bosses really care about personal autonomy generally because they're operating from fear fear that they've got to make the numbers fear that they don't look like their leader if you're not kowtowing to them fear that they're inept if they don't have a system that you are playing in and they can absolutely measure. So that fear is is simply a story they're telling themselves.
Park: [00:45:54] Autonomy then comes from having a crystal clear vision of what the overall again the brand narrative is is where this organization is going and creating that shared imagined reality. Literally a fiction that you can get your people to buy into through the stories you tell them. But then as the leader having the courage to allow your people to be on that journey on their terms and not your terms and what has been proven out more and more is when you give them that autonomy and then you reward them for their successes through not necessarily even money recognition. It's basically a way of justifying who they are. The journey that they're on and the contribution that their journey and their story is making to the greater whole and being the social animals we are as these storytelling monkeys there is nothing more powerful than commanding and recognizing somebody who's living into their true story but that takes tremendous courage from a leadership standpoint. And that's the kind of thinking that they just simply aren't trained to do. There's been no MBA program that teaches them how to do this. Even a lot of the leadership training is all based on numbers facts stats charts and graphs. When reality more of it should be based on emotion and how do you get people emotionally connected to your story.
Tripp: [00:47:18] That's that's that's interesting. I mean there's there's so much of a parallel I know we we exchange a few e-mails before we got on for this this particular call and this episode and I told you about you know I probably ask you about Deming but there's there's so many things that you have said today and and you admittedly said you know you know you know the name Deming and but not deeply and you know involved in what his philosophy is. But the more I read about neuroscience the more even in psychology and more than even I. You've you've taught me today about storytelling feeds back into this philosophy associated a lot of things you said were very Deming you know as associated with how rewards are looked at even performance appraisals. That was one of the things that Deming railed against was because if it gets rid of the sense of fairness everybody already has a pretty high opinion of themselves and the performance appraisal appraisals have a tendency to lower their opinion and the and the associated neuroscience with that. I think a lot of the neuroscience that are trying to practice with in business are missing the point they're all trying to improve the performance appraisal as opposed to get rid of it.
Tripp: [00:48:41] And I think that that's that's associated too. I find it very fascinating. It's really a deep thinker like yourself has kind of shown me a new light associated with not only Dr. Deming work but your own you know associated with it and I you know I always like to think that things are moving towards some some truths you know that there are certain things that that certainly organizations are not doing that they should be doing and psychology said it to storytelling and emotion has said it.
Tripp: [00:49:16] The neuroscience is now saying it and they still don't do it. And you know it's fascinating to me especially when you're brought up as we were talking about you know the freedom and autonomy that went when a thing obviously Dr. Deming railed against to was was the was the fixture on the dividend you know the quarterly dividend and achieving that target and you know and then everybody has their own targets and it's all about hitting that target and nobody asks about you know how do we get it done and you know it's not about method and Deming was more about you know by what method or you can accomplish that goal but you go out there goal without a method as a wish.
Tripp: [00:49:56] So so it is all associated with this and somehow all of this fits together and getting now bigger stronger pieces especially with the story telling component which I find completely fascinating. Shines a light on how we might be able to get organizations to move where we have people that want to come to work every day you know and enjoy it. And we've all seen the Gallup polls and things about you know people are checked out you know and working within organizations because we're not tapping into them. And I certainly see storytelling as a way of doing that. Well one final question for you Park and I always ask this question Is there anything that you've talked about that maybe you want to give a clarification of. Or is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I would have.
Park: [00:50:46] Oh gosh it's such it's such a big expansive topic and I want to thank you for saying I'm a deep thinker because nobody ever has really suggested that of me I'm a I'm a dot connector to a lot of reading and stuff.
Park: [00:50:59] The one other thing I would look at. Have you or your audiences think about this just as it was a poll that came out that linked Dan promoted about three weeks ago something like that the top five soft skills companies need most in 2019 and this was from a worldwide survey they did. I was really amazed at this was done based on research from LinkedIn learning it said here are the top five things are looking for usually it was the hard skills the engineering skills and the very measurable hard skills but surprisingly enough that's changed to the quote unquote soft skills of creativity persuasion collaboration adaptability and time management.
Park: [00:51:43] And the reason why that is is with A.I. and algorithms and big data and that sort of thing is the hard skills of pulling that together they got like a lot of those folks already. But what they're finding now is this disconnect with connecting with people and getting people back in on this human approach to running businesses. So if you just break down these five very quickly creativity how many times do executives and maybe your listeners are saying well I'm not a very creative person and I would never bring creativity to the office because it's not really wanted there. I'm not a good designer or whatever. Well storytelling is the greatest creativity hack because everybody's a storyteller. You can learn to become a compelling storyteller in your own way. You might not win a moth contest but you could own a room doing it by getting people to lean in. And when you tell a well told truthful story people will automatically see you as being creative. So number one number two persuasion there is no more persuasive tool in the power of a story. Again when was the last time you were bored into buying anything. As Jonathan Haidt said our brain is a story process. It's a story processor not a logic processor. So regardless you will not find any interpersonal skill more powerful at persuasion than being able to tell a story that connects two worlds together.
Park: [00:53:14] Collaboration All stories start with empathy. You first have to have understanding and empathy for your audience that you are trying to connect with. Why are you trying to connect with you want to collaborate with them to do something better something big or metaphorically you bring your two worlds together to make a greater third world well story is the only thing that does that. Understanding and thinking and narrative and story and bringing two stories together for a stronger more powerful third narrative is what storytelling is all about adaptability. From that same understanding and empathy of knowing and appreciating your audience even if they are diametrically opposed to your position creates a more adaptable mind a more nuanced mind.
Park: [00:54:02] I say data proffers knowledge but stories convey wisdom and that's what you're looking for an adaptability knowledge just helps you kind of understand the context but it's wisdom that you can use and exercise that creates that demonstrates your adaptability makes you more adaptable and you only get wisdom through those stories you've experienced and the journeys you're on.
Park: [00:54:26] Finally time management starting with the end button therefore start using this applied science of the And But and Therefore in your emails you cut your email writing by two thirds you will have readers that will actually hug you in the hallway saying thanks. I actually understand what you're talking about now and it took me one fourth of the time to get there and everybody's happy. That's just one little example of how you become better with time management by becoming a better storytelling Teller and using these frameworks. That's why I say with the business of story I'm all about helping you clarify your stories to amplify your impact and ultimately simplify your life.
Tripp: [00:55:08] Very good. And I will put a link in the show notes to. Your Web site and some of the things that that you offer through not only workshops that you do speaking so that's great. What I really.
Park: [00:55:23] So much for having me man I'm glad you reached out this has been a really really fascinating conversation.
Tripp: [00:55:29] Yeah I know. And you know one other thing I have to say is I do the first. Excuse me podcaster that I've interviewed before everybody else has written a book or done something like that and I actually found it a little bit easier to talk to you one I think you're empathetic to doing the podcast since you have to do it on your own. But the second thing I found very useful as as you mentioned things I'm able to then linked back to your podcast to be able to say here listen to this episode and you can tell you'll get more you know volume and I'm all about you know making a bigger pie as opposed to fighting over the one that exists.
Park: [00:56:11] So I appreciate that you know Tripp from doing your own shows that are our shows are really self-indulgent because we get to talk to such amazing people like yourself like the Jonathan Haidt of the world the Dr. Randy Olsen's or the absolute. I have learned so much in the process that now that's all I do is try to share what I've learned and what I've seen work in action in the real world now.
Tripp: [00:56:37] But I bet you're right. I mean and I think that we have a similar personality or whatever. As far as being dot connectors I mean because I read a lot too. I like to to kind of put things together. But it's this person saying how did they get there what's the research on it. You know those types of things that build it so that. Well one last question. I know I said that my last question but what do you what are you reading right now.
Park: [00:57:04] I am literally reading a book my son our son sent me called, The Algorithms to Live By the computer science of human decisions by Brian Christian and Tom Griffiths. Now our son Parker is in Hollywood. He's graduated from Chapman University. A lot of the study that I did at my own story work when I said I went to Hollywood yes he was at it. Chapman from 2006 graduated in 2010 and has been in Hollywood ever since as a motion designer and doing a lot more directing now in the virtual reality world. So I asked him I said when you're done with your textbooks at Chapman send them to me since I'm paying for them because I'd like to learn what are they teaching you to be a competitive storyteller and all that can you know the most competitive storytelling land in the world and being L.A. so that's where I started learning this well. He also has this mathematical mind always has been very very good at numbers and algorithms and so he sent me this book for my birthday said here Dad read this book I'm reading it then we can compare notes. So I have had to slowly read through it. But it's really fascinating and I find it's another interesting look at how our mind really represents or reflective of a computer apparatus or maybe I should just flip that the computer apparatuses that we have developed are simply a reflection of the mind that we have been blessed with. And this is a book that explores how those two worlds work very similarly.
Tripp: [00:58:33] Funny thing I read it over Christmas.
Park: [00:58:36] Oh you did.
Tripp: [00:58:37] Yeah I know. I was if my wife got it out of the blue and I thought it was you know it was fascinate but you will get a lot out of it. It is it is a slow read especially as you get into some of the later chapters know how far you're into it but there's a lot to digest there.
Park: [00:58:55] The Copernican Principle just coming up on the OK so that makes me very good.
Tripp: [00:59:01] All right well we thank you for being part of the mind your noodles podcast.
Park: [00:59:08] Well thanks for having me Tripp. The one last thing I leave with all of you to remember is that the most important story you will ever tell is the story you tell yourself so make it a great one. And thanks for having me.
Tripp: [00:59:23] Thank you for being a listener of the mine your noodles podcast. If you'd like to learn more or sign up for our newsletter or upcoming podcasts go to. MindYournoodles.com.
This is the second episode of the Mind Your Noodles podcast. In this episode our guest is investment banker, keynote speaker and author of Pitch Anything, Oren Klaff. We discuss how to use neuroscience when interacting with others, the importance of narrative and emotion in communications and ways to build trust.
Show Notes [00:00:05]
Mind Your Noodles Podcast
[00:00:20]
Episode Two - Oren Klaff
[00:01:01]
Transparency - I'm a Student of Oren's Work
[00:01:53]
Pitchanything.com
[00:02:42]
New Book Coming - Flip the Script
[00:06:10]
Time Passes Differently for Speaker and Audience
[00:07:56]
How Do You Get Information Out of Your Brain and Over to Someone Else?
[00:08:25]
Oren Breaks Down the Brain
[00:09:03]
The Crocodile Brain
[00:10:54]
Mid-Brain Function - Social
[00:11:32]
The Neo-Cortex Role
[00:13:00]
Does this Thinking Apply to the Masses?
[00:15:00]
Adjustments When Addressing the Audience
[00:15:20]
Emotional Needs of the Audience
[00:16:39]
Collateral Damage and Narrative
[00:17:35]
Narrative Arc
[00:18:50]
The Pre-wired Brain
[00:20:08]
Programmed Narratives
[00:21:15]
Conflict and Trust
[00:22:12]
Trust as Too High a Bar at the Beginning - and What to Do to Get There
[00:26:32]
Conflict Raises the Stake
[00:28:53]
Conflict = Stakes
[00:29:55]
The Big Idea and it's Role
[00:31:45]
Role of the Big Idea
[00:36:19]
Big Idea Applies to All - Even the Furniture Business
[00:40:00]
You are Valuable - Use It or Make It
[00:43:51]
How Might We Engage Employees
[00:47:13]
Closing Thoughts
Transcript Tripp: [00:00:05] Welcome to the Mind Your Noodles podcasts take care of the brains that take care of you using neuroscience research and methods for a brain friendly organization and healthy you.
Tripp: [00:00:20] In the second episode of Mind Your Noodles My guest is Oren Klaff. Investment banker, keynote speaker and author of Pitch Anything. We discuss how to use neuroscience when interacting with others, the importance of narrative and emotion in communication and ways to get trust quickly.
Tripp: [00:00:46] Hi I'm Tripp Babbitt host of The Mind Your Noodles podcast.
Tripp: [00:00:51] My guest today is investment banker speaker and author Oren Klaff. Welcome Oren.
Oren Klaff: [00:00:57] Hey thanks. TRIPP I appreciate it. Good to connect with you. Glad we could get on the same schedule.
Tripp: [00:01:01] Very good. Full disclosure to my audience I am a huge fan of what Oren does and I'm also a student of his Pitch Mastery online class that that he has and workshops and call ins and also Oren you probably won't meet with us but you are the inspiration actually for this podcast. So no pressure.
Oren Klaff: [00:01:25] Great. And I can't wait to get the checks.
Tripp: [00:01:28] There you go. And one of the things I do a little bit differently especially for folks like you is instead of talking about all your stuff that you do at the end. Kind of like to just where people can go so they can get back right to the beginning of the podcast episode and just know kind of a little bit about. So I knew they'd go to like pitchanything.com I would assume if they're going to learn about you.
Oren Klaff: [00:01:53] If you want to get started here you go to pitchanything.com. Putting your name and we will flood you with really information on that will transform the way you get in front of people the way you talk to people in the way that you close deals. That's what you care about. That's the right place to be pitchanything.com
Tripp: [00:02:11] Okay. And do you want to say a couple words because I know you're kind of doing preorders for your new book Flip the Script. I'm sure we'll talk about as we get into it. But.
Oren Klaff: [00:02:22] So I wrote a book. Second Book because they said you have to write a book. Another one. Your first book is like everyone on Earth bought it. There's no one else to sell it to. I didn't read the book so I wrote another book. I said Yeah I'll do it in a year. and then two years later I finished it because apparently I put everything I knew in the first row.
Oren Klaff: [00:02:42] But the book the new book is Flip the Script. It is. I love it like I'm reading it myself. Oh my God this is so good. I should write this down. Wait a second. I just wrote this. It's like this infinite loop of the Flip the Script is full of scripts of how to make somebody chase you instead of you chasing them out to put your ideas. In the mind of somebody else so they think it's their idea. It is it. It's completely next level. There's nothing like it in sales. It's just revised what sales is about. So Flip the Script is the new book. It's out of control. Now that I've said that you can't get it.
Tripp: [00:03:21] Well you can preorder it though.
Oren Klaff: [00:03:25] You can preorder it. That's OK. Because.
Tripp: [00:03:27] I see it here on Amazon right now.
Oren Klaff: [00:03:30] I'm looking at it and I'm going to get two hundred galleys. So you know if you're in the media a galley is you know the copy that the editors send you that isn't really a copy. It's sort of the secret copy print on cardboard and toilet paper. But if you want that copy I have 200 of them.
Tripp: [00:03:48] Oh OK. OK. All right. So. So where would they contact you to get that.
Oren Klaff: [00:03:52] E-mail you if you want that copy. Go to Tripp's house.
Tripp: [00:03:55] OK.
Oren Klaff: [00:03:56] Talk to his dog.
Tripp: [00:03:59] My dog will kill them. They don't want to do that. All right.
Tripp: [00:04:02] So where I'd like to start Oren is because you were the inspiration for my my podcast that I'm putting together here. I do a couple of other podcasts I'd do one for the Deming Institute. We have about 45-50000 listeners every every month.
Tripp: [00:04:18] And also do one with a gentleman by the name of Doug Hall does innovation types of things. But the the thing that struck me you know I love sales from way back. So you know did the Carnegie stuff I did the Ziglar and I did Tracey and I did the Sandler sales Institute and then on a fluke I I ran into a copy of Pitch Anything actually from another book that was actually meh not very good. But but but in their bibliography your book was mentioned in there and as I started to read it. The thing that that really stood out. I know this is part of your your pitch process and I would certainly want to talk about that is this whole concept of people whether it's neuroscience or brain science or ever you want to say it it's this concept of people are not communicating between a sales situation or a pitch situation because they're on really two different planes in the brain level.
Tripp: [00:05:24] And so I kind of like to start there and I know I've listened to some of your interviews that you've done over the past year on the Life of Charm I think it was one of them and and some other ones that you've done with like the Project Management Institute.
Tripp: [00:05:42] Yeah. And so there's going to be some some it's going to be boring for you. But for the audience I think level setting kind of that component and especially because it really fits in well with the purpose of this podcast kind of walk us through how you. First of all arrive there and then kind of the basics associated with the crocodile brain and the mid brain and all that.
Oren Klaff: [00:06:10] Yeah. So I think you know one way you can get there they've never talked about but we'll do some fresh stuff here. If you think about how differently time passes in different situations so if you're a speaker presenter write to an audience and nearly everybody listening here you know whether it was in grade school, high school, college or in a professional you know sits up and had to present something longer than five minutes when you pass five minutes time begins to pass differently for the speaker and the audience.
Oren Klaff: [00:06:45] You the speaker. Are talking you're all the sound that you get warmed up. Think about five six seven minutes to get warmed up. You got the sound of my voice is pretty good right.
Oren Klaff: [00:06:55] And now you're sort of getting going in your juices are flowing and you feel warmed up and now you're ready to say the things you have to say in explaining the features and the benefits and the ideas that you have and the business of it. And. At eight nine 10 12 minutes your just getting going and the audience is just about cooked right. And so now as you get into when this happens to me you know I a half an hour into a speech. I feel like wow I could do this for three or four hours and the audience is thinking I want you to do this for another minute maybe. OK. So so things happen differently. Experiences that are in the same room happen very differently to different people especially when you're you're teaching or giving information or selling. So. So there's different parts of the mind that are engaged when you're the seller and you're the buyer. And then we follow that through and we sort of think of it like this that where. Do you. What part of the brain do you disgorge information from.
Oren Klaff: [00:07:56] How do you get information out of your brain over to someone else. And what part of the brain do they receive then when you start to look at that from a neuro standpoint you and you ask. Cognitive psychologists. You know what's happening in the brain by the way if you never hire cognitive psychologists to help you out with your relationship. Right. You don't give a fuck about relationships.
Oren Klaff: [00:08:18] They care about your feelings they care about how information moves in and out of the brain and up and down and how you react to things and why.
Oren Klaff: [00:08:25] But if you think about where you receive information into the human mind well it's received as you alluded to do something. Call we call the crocodile brain. And it's the most ancient part of the brain the least sophisticated the most unable to handle nuance, detail, emotion. Right. It really just trims things down to the absolute basics.
Oren Klaff: [00:08:50] Right now the part of the brain that I'm using that you're reading now listen to the part of bringing you you used to get to work and get a buy a laptop and get a job and think that of course is the neocortex smart thinking linguistic capable math problem solving.
Oren Klaff: [00:09:03] Also relatively emotionless but but that part of the brain thinks about complex ideas and talks about them uses the language communicates them and it's sending all this information over to the other person who's just receiving that information through their crocodile brain. We call that because it acts like a crocodile. Huh. What is this. Something is moving. Noise is coming from it. I gotta deal with it because anything that's moving that creates noise in an animatronic way right. That isn't a rock a tree or an insect. Anything is moving and making noise I gotta pay attention to and decide how to process it. And so the other person is. You're coming up with all your great ideas and that person thinking you know as I wrote is it's just something I should eat. There's something I should mate with. Is this a danger. Should I kill it. There's sort of some of the base angry hungry and horny. Right. That's so nature. That part of the brain is trying to process the thing you're saying. So unless you give that part of the brain the information it needs at the beginning to get it calm down and end to allow it to move information up higher into the brain. You never get past. Really the initial. Interest you don't get the attention because you go hey this is not something I should eat. There's not something I should mate with. This isn't something I should kill am I. I'll just ignore it and worry about other problems. So. So that part of the brain is very concerned about survival and self interest and if you don't placate it give it the information it need. Truncate you know your story so it calms down and is willing to pass information up to the higher order of the brain. You can't get anywhere. And that's why you go there eyes roll back in the head. We never got their attention you know and all these things. So. So you got.
Oren Klaff: [00:10:54] So that's a first part of the brain its gotta deal with then it moves up to the mid brain and the mid brain doesn't care about ROI IOR and you know these things that you know you've heard me talk about before you know with the benefits of the SAS software or how the insurance is going to know save you money or this car's better than that I didn't care about and sort of cares about social situations.
Oren Klaff: [00:11:15] So until it's safe. And it sounds and there's some things to be intrigued by by the crocodile brain. And then there is a sense of social order that you're a high status individual that can provide some valuable information.
Oren Klaff: [00:11:32] The neocortex won't engage so I really just start talking to neocortex with the details data story and the neocortex is not easy to access. So that's how I think about human-human communication. You got to give him the right information for the part of the brain that is actually paying attention. At that point in time you got it. If I could just simplify this by a million times when you go to merge on the freeway right.
Oren Klaff: [00:12:00] They give you an on ramp so you can build up speed to get up to you know by the time you get a freeway you're doing seventy five miles an hour. If you've ever been in a situation where somebody build a shitty road system somewhere in New Jersey or Pennsylvania.
Tripp: [00:12:13] The jug handles. Yeah.
Oren Klaff: [00:12:16] Yeah yeah what you sort of take aRight there's this right turn onto a five lane road where people are going 80 miles an hour and you go Damn how do I get up to that speed from a dead stop. Right. That's what most people are facing. How do we take a right turn onto this freeway and get up to speed without getting murdered. And most people's presentations get murdered on by by trying to do that incorrectly. You need to have an on ramp.
Tripp: [00:12:45] Okay. And so one of the things as far as this particular podcast you know my whole aim is applying neuroscience to organizations kind of how do I build a better system.
Tripp: [00:13:00] In that particular company now ours obviously you know a sales component to it. There's a pitch component to it when you're reaching out to even the masses. These things hold true right.
Oren Klaff: [00:13:13] When you're sending this devout to the masses it's even more true and I'll give you an example if you've ever gone to see a can a comedian right in a club.
Tripp: [00:13:22] Yes.
Oren Klaff: [00:13:24] They don't actually have to be that funny right cause you face to face people are having a couple of drinks you want them to do well you don't want them to fail you know the joke. If you're watching that same comedian on TV they have to be you know three 4 times funnier the jokes have to be amazing the content has to be you know that's why that's why people you know when they do these HBO comedy specials you know they can practice for a year to do that because when you're watching it on TV in an in-person way that the jokes have to be incredibly on point and funny versus being there in a club that you know just everyone's having a good time and and almost anything is funny. The comedians on stage you know these high status with your friends you want to have a good time. So it's the same thing right. When you go into the masses you're not there.
Oren Klaff: [00:14:14] To affect them in a emotional way. One to one or one to a few. And so the structure of the information has to be incredibly well organized and precise and feed these parts and respect neuroscience and feed these parts of the brain in the way that the brain is willing to accept information right. We're not talking about feelings or emotions or or wants and desires.
Oren Klaff: [00:14:40] We're talking about how the brain is actually willing to accept information from you. Another human in what order they need the information and what amount of detail at what speed and what level of emotional color and depth those things have to be pre-programmed. If you want to meet the masses.
Tripp: [00:15:00] Okay. And I know you do a lot of public speaking and keynotes and things of that sort. Is there are there adjustments that you're making as you're doing a keynote versus doing a a pitch for capital. Or is it still pretty much the same blueprint. How do you approach that.
Oren Klaff: [00:15:20] Yeah my sense of it is that. It. If you're making midstream adjustments something is going wrong right. Because what you're doing is you're tuning yourself to the emotional needs of the audience at that moment. OK then they're not.
Oren Klaff: [00:15:43] Now you're on this slippery slope or going down to the circling the drain because their emotional needs will change. You know in a few minutes from now. Now you need to feed those emotional needs to keep them happy. The emotional needs of the audience aren't the same as their information needs so in my experience it is incredibly important not to have every word written but you've got to have the structure of a your narrative laid out. I mean think about a movie right halfway through the movie. They know all the actors tired well let's give them some easier lines and you know fuck it let's just having fall in love now instead of 20 minutes from now because the actors are tired right. So. So in no way do and those scripts go through infinite rewrites until the story is right and then you deliver the story. And yes do the actors have some variant variants you know during the turn the screenplay.
Oren Klaff: [00:16:39] I give a perfect example. Good friend of mine wrote a movie called Collateral Damage starring starring Arnold Schwarzenegger and this guy is a brilliant writer. You know he was a partner at Goldman Sachs and a very good friend of mine an excellent writer. You just just Mensa genius level guy.
Oren Klaff: [00:16:55] Love him David and I said you know the collateral damage not the greatest movie the plot. No no no no. The script is amazing. Right. Best script ever. The problem is Arnold Schwarzenegger goes I would not say my lines in this way. You know when he changes the lines change the lines and changing the narrative really affects the grand scheme so whenever we see somebody changing on the fly there tend to be feeding reacting to the emotional needs of the audience in that moment. And that usually leads to circling the drain.
Tripp: [00:17:35] Okay. And so you know it's interesting it's some of the people that I have lined up to talk to are on what you call the the narrative arc I believe is the words that you use. I just interviewed a gentleman by the name of Dr. Paul Zak and I know if no Paul at all but he does the dramatic arc and he wrote a book a book called The Trust Factor and where you do neuro finance. Zach does neuro economics which is basically measuring brain activity while people make decisions and one of the things that they found apparently is this in this whole narrative component that you guys talk about is that only are two areas of the brain are activated when you're talking about facts and figures and details and things of that sort and seven parts of the brain are activated when you're doing a narrative of some sort. And so how are you using that in your pitch in your whether it's a pitch to you know again for capital or whether you're pitching to a group of of you know employees in a company about the direction that the organization is going to go.
Oren Klaff: [00:18:50] Yeah. So I wrote about this a lot in my new book and I think you know I certainly had that same layer of thinking but I simplified it in this. That there are these pre wired pathways through the brain that are just acceptable narratives that people you know. Then there's you know seven or eight of them that that you know when they're getting that narrative all the parts of the brain are paying attention and somebody is riveted. Right. So man against man right you wants to snap somebodies attention you go. John and Mark are outside fighting over Susan. Boom. Everybody in the office drops what they're doing. Run to the fire exit to watch this parking lot incident you want to get so much attention you say two people are fighting. That is a pre wired part of the brain that has to pay attention to conflict. Right. And so we pay. We have to pay attention to movement right. Every single book on script writing or story writing or ply writing should drop people into rapidly unfolding action. Do not start. It was a dark and stormy night.
Oren Klaff: [00:20:08] Ok. You have a job even or under so. So man against nature man against himself man against man. Right. Ah ah are these ancient narratives that are pre-programmed the mind that you know people accept and follow and will pay attention to. So. So my my sense is in order to fully engage the brain it is not to find what engages the neocortex what engages the amygdala what engages the you know the mid brain what gauges the left temporal lobe. Trying in some complicated format. Get all of those fired up. Instead I say what. Pathways. Are available in the mind of this buyer that I can just feed into. What are they looking for. In what order and in what amount of detail. And then I just follow those pathways instead of trying to do something new and creative.
Tripp: [00:21:15] And I've heard you talk about this on numerous occasions as well as in your book. As far as conflict and things moving away and things moving. Are you manufacturing conflict. And if so. I know you also kind of go into this trust factor where you can't get to trust especially when you're doing a pitch real real quickly. Obviously if you're dealing with some employees that are out there a large group of employees you might have more time because they're employees but but as far as the conflict and getting to the autonomy associated with that can you can you kind of help me with the and help the audience too with the how you deal with bringing up conflict. How how are you gonna get that. You know Sally and Joe are out fighting in the parking lot type of type of situation.
Oren Klaff: [00:22:12] So. So a couple of things I think I'm less concerned about trust right. Because trust takes time to build and trust comes at the trust is not something you build upfront. It comes towards the end. Once you've done everything else correctly. Right. So I think it's a really high bar to try and build trust right. I think what is easier to accomplish is to build expertise and to build status and to provide information in the way that somebody can is interested. Continues to be intrigued and provides insight to move them past the information age when you can help somebody understand their business better than they currently know it. You've provided them insight when you establish your self as an expert.
Oren Klaff: [00:23:11] Then you've provided them the confidence to spend time with you. And believe in you when you've provided them that the enough sense that you're not going to beg for their business you're not going to chase them. Right. That you have got the status as a peer. Then all those things lead to trust. Right. So again I just want to put trust in its proper place and it is very hard to say as a marker hey we're going to try and develop trust. Trust comes automatically if you do everything else.
Tripp: [00:23:45] Okay. So. So. So what you're saying is there's kind of an on ramp to trust if you will. There are certain things that you need to have in place in order to build that. And certainly cycles of time that you talked about one of your friends in an interview recently you know that the trust has been developed over a longer period of time when you're trying to say if you're a new CEO walking into an organization you aren't going to have trust at the very beginning. But doing these other things you know the fact he has status he's been named the CEO of the company. You should be an expert in something you know before he even became CEO. But developing that intrigue and insight then would kind of be the the on ramp to getting to that trust component. Do I have that right?
Oren Klaff: [00:24:37] Yeah. So I think all those things are a proxy for trust or a replacement for trust. So what happened is somebody come to you and says hey listen trust me right. This is the best solution. This is the best water heater for your house that there is right there. That is sort of pressing to "do not trust me" Button. Right. When you ask for trust or go after it initially it has the exact opposite effect.
Oren Klaff: [00:25:04] Right. So what can we replace trust with that has the same impact expertise status insight. Social proof. The the just quality of presentation. Right. What I try and you may have heard me say Well but what would I try and develop very early on instead of trust with somebody you go Oh crap. This is awesome I'm in the hands of an expert. This guy knows how to pitch I can relax. This is not stressful. I don't got to be on alert that you know this information is true I don't have to you know think about every statement this guy seems to know what he's doing. I'm going to relax. Listen to this pitch 15 20 minutes whatever it is I'm in the hands of a professional. For me I try to achieve that feeling in a buyer rather than hey you should trust me.
Tripp: [00:25:59] OK.
Oren Klaff: [00:26:00] And we can circle back around the conflict right. The job of conflict is really to manage attention. Right. People pay attention to human conflict. So. So there's no movies about rocks interacting with each other. Right. Nobody. But there's lots of movies with rocks in them. But they have to you know whatever the word is anthropomorphize them. Right. If I maybe put too few or too many syllables in the word.
Oren Klaff: [00:26:32] But you know they have to make inanimate objects animate in order to get kids or anybody to pay attention to it. OK. SpongeBob Square Pants or whatever. Right. So so everything has got to be put in human terms and we're only interested in humans. Interacting with each other in a way to solve a problem and that generally means conflict. Right. And so if you want to raise attention raise awareness raise the stakes. It always has got to lead with conflict. And then you can move on to. And so how would you do that right. I mean if you get on a conference call with me about a deal you know and be the CEO of 3M of Xerox of you know I don't care what it is you know I'll get on the call. And typically you know this always happened if the CEO of a large company they'll come three or four minutes late and I go Hey John you here for the 3 0 3 meeting you know writes Funny and boring we laughed at it I just doing it for so long and I'm sorry. So I got the CEO of a Fortune 500 company apologizing to me because I'm in conflict with him but in a fun. So. So it's not that you can't challenge him or accuse him or you're all that there's lots of wrong ways to do conflict right.
Oren Klaff: [00:27:48] But if it's if it's social and socially aware and fun but it makes the point you know makes the point you know sometimes they'll bring six or seven people to the call and we'll have two you know which is always a bad sign socially anyway and we'll say OK you know here we are and you know tribal council. Right and there's trouble of us here and only nine of us will advance the next phase or a boost in the three people to kick off this island call here in the next few minutes. And you know that's it's fun. But you know it's also true is like hey you brought too many people to the call and you know you're making them aware of it. So you've got to find your own forms of this. But if you want people to pay attention there's got to be some sense of conflict if you you know if you're uncomfortable with that it's just like when I go to speak in Texas. Yes conflicts. Right. Like you mean bring a gun great Crudup Hey man I'll bring it in. Go to that meeting right. And so. So that's what they think of.
Oren Klaff: [00:28:53] You know conflict in Texas when I go to Silicon Valley they're really uncomfortable with in Palo Alto. You know invariably some women will stand up and say you know this is and this feels very male centric. No you're just you're hearing my voice. Right. But but you know women can and should do this as well. And so I wouldn't feel comfortable but so. So a word you can replace conflict with IS stakes. Mm hmm. Is the stakes. That's good. It's an other way to do and say hey glad we could get together today. On this call notes introductory call. All right but there's something going to be decided and as much as you're evaluating us. I'm evaluating you.
Tripp: [00:29:41] And we're going to figure out A if our product and services are right for you. But we're also going to figure out on this call if I'd the interest in working for you and if you're right for us because we only work with the best.
Tripp: [00:29:55] Right now you're talking. You're lucky you've hit on several things associate with this one is your talking. And we haven't talked about it as the frame that you're coming in to a situation with or it's coming to you and then you kind of hit each of the pieces but just kind of bring it together and then I'd like to go back to frame is the narrative arc that you talk about. So you said the the thing that you talk about all the time is the big idea. You know a problem that something that's difficult to solve and then what our solution is. And so you've touch upon some components of the big idea. Can you kind of rather than me just kind of hitting around what the big idea is can you tell me how that fits into the broader narrative.
Oren Klaff: [00:30:44] When you start working with someone talking to someone get on a Skype meeting phone call you know sending out an email there minding their own business.
Oren Klaff: [00:30:54] Oh my god is my wife going to see this email from this woman I met at the conference. It's not really like that but if she's attractive and all the kids are graduating from grade school and you know we can send her private high school and you know I really want the promotion. I love the team I'm working with. And should we go on vacation here locally and grandma is sick but the kids got here before she dies. My diet is not going well. I can't believe I didn't get to the gym the last two days. I promised my trainer and is on and on and on. Right. And then you're like hey our SAS software can deliver three times more throughput you know on your Amazon S three server side compared to your current on prem systems and we do it at a you know per whatever. And those thoughts dreams are just incompatible.
Oren Klaff: [00:31:45] And so for me the big idea. Is about getting someone's internal dialogue. Whatever happened their last meeting wherever they were. It was going on for them over the last 50 minutes last hour the last day getting that thought string. Tamped down and tempered and getting your ideas stream introduced and sort of switching the amount of attention they're paying to their own thoughts from you know being internally and so focused to being focused on you. And for me there might be other ways to do it. So I know for example like you know the state police use a taser that gets people real focused away from what they were doing under what they want to you to focus on. And so other professions you do things in a different way. But for me I don't can't use Tasers in the conference rooms that I go to. So I used a big idea.
Tripp: [00:32:39] And that's your way of getting them to now.
Oren Klaff: [00:32:42] And yeah. And so the big idea. Right. And most people get this wrong. They hear me talk about the big idea and they think oh the big idea is our software can make you money. That's not a fucking idea. Right.
Oren Klaff: [00:32:53] That is about you. The big idea has nothing to do with you it's about them. And the greater world around all of you. Right. The big idea is all software has now moved to the cloud and is being rented. OK. And so if in fact you want to have a customer for software in today's world. Right. You need to you rent them the software everything's in the cloud. That's an idea right. We have software that's in the cloud that can make you money is a value proposition. There's a solution that come to way down the line. So ideas truly are ideas right. And so you know and typically as you know there to me there are a lot of things that are changing right.
Oren Klaff: [00:33:44] So fundamentally the the you know obviously politics we don't want to get into here because I just say the word politics and a divisive political discussion in the country and you know red versus blue and you know support of a Republican Party and sort of non Republican way. Yeah I was going to light up.
Tripp: [00:34:05] Right.
Oren Klaff: [00:34:06] Right. And pay attention because that is changing and those are those are important issues but you know what else is changing. I mean if you think about Samsung you know if you saw the release of this folding tablet thing right.
Tripp: [00:34:18] Oh yes.
Oren Klaff: [00:34:18] I mean I had you know in my company we might have 700 Apple devices. You know I mean maybe maybe 15 hundred I don't know. You know I've I've owned 60 iPhones and 20. You know i pads and 15 iMacs and you know just myself and I see that device and I'm like Oh man I'm I get a Samsung Android whatever that stuff is right so.
Oren Klaff: [00:34:41] So even you know technology is constantly changing the relationship with North Korea is confusing, the terrorists, with China. I mean everything's changing. You know all the time and so big ideas are around change.
Tripp: [00:34:55] You know it's interesting you know one of the things that that I really struggled with that that you helped me through coming up with with the big idea for for my consulting practice was you know I'm a long time follower of of a man by the name of W. Edwards Deming who you know went over to Japan and helped turn them around and do all that type of thing. But you know.
Oren Klaff: [00:35:18] Sure.
Tripp: [00:35:19] He died in the early 90s. But I mean and and I think the difficulty associated with his teachings it's more of a philosophy as opposed to a method per se. And one of the difficulties I have and I think it's important to kind of bring this out because I think people are gonna have a hard time going oh but I'm not in the investment banking business or not in this. But but what you do extrapolates a method for helping people even if they know you're talking about Samsung and all the new and exciting things associated with that. But I might be in an h vac business. You know what I mean. And and I. How do I you know get a big idea or make shots here or you know right.
Oren Klaff: [00:36:07] Yeah.
Tripp: [00:36:08] And I think it's an important thing right. Yeah.
Oren Klaff: [00:36:10] You have to take you know or even worse you're in the furniture business.
Tripp: [00:36:16] Yes. Yeah I.
Oren Klaff: [00:36:19] So if you're in the furniture business. You're fucked. That's we can't know.
Tripp: [00:36:26] If you're a furniture business skip this. No. Yeah.
Oren Klaff: [00:36:29] Okay listen on the phone for business. You know what I would tie that to without knowing too much about it is logistics right. Something about logistics. There's 18000 too few truck drivers in the United States right. And so what's hot and what's driving that. It's Amazon and these package delivery you order a toothbrush you know some dental floss and some throat lozenges. It comes in a box. You know the size of a small desk right. And so all these empty boxes moving everywhere back and forth to deliver a toothbrush is causing a huge Oh you know over demand on logistics. And so if you're in furniture logistics are are becoming a huge problem and you know a big cost of the you know of your final delivery product. And so that industry is changing a lot and it's tied directly to Amazon which everybody can relate to. So again I might say hey so you know if I'm a furniture company and I'm looking for example for an investor right or a partner I would say hey look today if you think about furniture the business has basically been the same for two hundred years you make the furniture you know you put it in a box you take a picture of it you put in a catalog it's shipped to the store.
Oren Klaff: [00:37:53] People browse the store. They they pick a model and they go to the warehouse and they deliver one to your house. Couple days later is basically how furniture has worked today. It's quite different because because of the difficulty with logistics there's there's 18000 truck drivers that need to be hired that aren't currently available and you cannot get the inventory to where the purchases are happening so the salespeople. Have to tell the buyer the furniture you're not going to get your delivery for three to six weeks. People want to finish that home tomorrow. So the salespeople. Are the key to revenue today in the furniture business. It never was that way that you had to hire you know for 50 60 70 thousand dollars base and get real salespeople used to be able to pay commission because the furniture sold itself. So I don't know. Right. A big idea in of your business. I know nothing about.
Tripp: [00:38:53] Yeah. No. And I think that's good I just want to point out especially to the audience that you know one of the things I found I find fascinating well know it took me six months to build up the courage to to to actually talk to you about my pitch.
Tripp: [00:39:07] But but as I listened to you talk to people in different businesses I mean everything from pharma of pharmaceuticals to health care to you know furniture you know that you have this mindset that that is associated with being able to come up with a big idea in whatever situation it is by kind of looking more broadly at the industry and what's going on or or trends of things that are happening within an industry. And I saw you more than once. Certainly probably 20 times where you pulled somebody out that hadn't thought in that particular you know with that particular mindset it's one of it's one of your redeeming qualities that you have associated with what you do is is there any hints that you might be able to give folks as how did they get that mindset.
Oren Klaff: [00:40:00] So for me then the number one thing to drive the mindset for all this stuff is you know you and you know I talked about it before it is. Internal understanding of our own value. Write that in the relationship. With a potential buyer investor partner whatever it is we don't have the product and the service or the company or the investment that's valuable. It's the relationship with us right. I know things about how to buy this product how to invest in this kind of company that will help you avoid losing your money or making them or making the wrong choice. I can help you if you go somewhere else. You're not going to get me you're gonna get some other very likely less connected less experienced less caring individual. So if your priority is to get a low price. Or some other value for yourself and you're willing to work with somebody who has less experience less value less caring than I do. You should go do that because I'm a unique person. I have experience and I'm only going to share that with people I'm connected with. So that has got to be your an internal set point until you feel that believe that and let somebody actually walk away that you could have sold. Otherwise because of that issue it'll be difficult to adopt the other mindsets that help you sell and clothes. So. So that's your entree point into this world is understanding your own importance to the deal not just the product or the service.
Tripp: [00:42:05] Ok. All right. I have two more questions. The first one is one of the things that when when I when I joined Pitch Mastery you had in there a bunch of articles under what you called Psychology in it. And this is one of the things that set me down the path of doing this podcast is there is something in there it was an acronym. It was called SCARF which is stands for Stand our status certainty autonomy relatedness fairness and it just because I respect your opinion so much. Well it's a good ticket a little bit out of your realm here but I know you have this kind of perspective that I am very curious about and that is when you look at organizations and the way that organizations are run today and you've heard all the numbers about you know to two thirds of people are not engaged in their work. Those types of things. What do you see as what needs to what needs to be happening within organizations in order to get people engaged and how you know from all the things you've learned about neuroscience all the things you learned about pitching you know those types of things. What would be your perspective on that. I know again I'm thinking a little bit out of your your comfort zone here but you are so you know you have a broad thinker.
Oren Klaff: [00:43:28] Yeah yeah. So when you say engage. Yeah just chased that down. Sure. And unpack that a bit.
Tripp: [00:43:36] Yeah. So peep peep. There was a Gallup survey in essence that was done publicly about five years ago. Now we're something like two thirds of all people are not engaged in their work.
Tripp: [00:43:51] They're checked out basically. Yeah. You know they're they're just you know I've got I need a pay check and you know I have obligations I'm there but I'm not innovating. I'm not excited about coming to work every day. Well what would be what's your perspective on all the stuff that you've learned about neuroscience everything you've learned about pitching. How do we move these people way. How do we in essence my business is designing organizations that are basically brain friendly if you will where people look forward to coming to work every day. What needs to change in these corporate cultures from your perspective that they need to be doing in order to do it. I think you've hit upon some of this. Bye bye by just talking about what you know coming up with an a narrative that in essence engages people you know making more money for the guys at the top is not always that exciting. So. Right. So so so what what what what's your view.
Oren Klaff: [00:44:46] I mean my view for an organization is is you know very much the same as yours. It's you know micro goals or Gamify. Right. So it's funny we ran the cabin this last weekend up in Big Bear and they had a Galaga machine right. The videogame Galaga.
Tripp: [00:45:04] Ok.
Oren Klaff: [00:45:06] And. The you know in essence your goal is to get on the leaderboard right so they've got the top 20 people and you only their initials. But that is a huge reward you know to play the game well get the points and get on the leaderboard right. And so for me engagement is about you know my organizations is these goals that are doable that are tangible. And I think a lot of organizations have that. But you know you move up the leaderboard you know for accomplishing something as you know as close to you know as close to the blueprint as possible. So that's my experience in the organizations we run is is you know hard to connect people to our goals which is to grow revenue you know sell the company make 20 million bucks distributed to three guys and buy another plane. You know people don't come into work to help you do that. They come into work to you know write a blog post put it up get the most amount of clicks on it you know log that and move up the leaderboard. So maybe over simplistic but you know I'm not a management you know expert as you are but that's what I feel. It drives our organization forward is these micro goals and the gamification or the moving up the leaderboard. I mean you look if you watch the show.
Oren Klaff: [00:46:31] Darn, the British car show or come to me as soon as we hang up right where they race cars on the track and if the celebrities in the car and then and then the celebrity gets on the leaderboard right to see what their time was and that's very exciting for them. And it's hard to get except you know celebrities excited about much.
Oren Klaff: [00:46:49] And so getting on the leaderboard to me for accomplishing something that is manageable but challenging I think is really drives organizations.
Tripp: [00:46:59] Ok. And then my last question is when I typically ask which is there anything that maybe we talked about that you'd like to provide more clarification on. Or is there any question that you wish I would've asked that that I didn't.
Oren Klaff: [00:47:13] Well yeah I think for me you know the clarification is if you really want to give a great pitch a great presentation captures people's attention have them listen. It's really about raising your status to one as a peer. And then so I think most of understand that. But then I think it's important to go further as being more than appear as an expert. So those to me are the goals raise the standards a peer and they go further. Be seen as an expert. Now somebody will listen to you for an hour.
Tripp: [00:47:50] Mm hmm. Look at that. That's good. So that's kind of you again you're on ramp. The trust that we get that we kind of talked about earlier to.
Oren Klaff: [00:47:59] Yeah absolutely. OK. So. So I think yeah all somebody has to do is do all of these things we've talked about here today and do'em by tomorrow morning and be way way ahead of the game.
Tripp: [00:48:12] Okay. All right. And just just for my audience as I said I. Full disclosure and transparency I am part of Oren's Pitch Mastery of a huge advocate of the program and not only that but as far as the personal time that Oren spends going through pitches and giving suggestions those types of things it's well worth the investment in joining the Pitch Mastery piece and think it's it's you know for what the value you get out of it it's it's of great value.
Oren Klaff: [00:48:48] So thank you Tripp. OK well great connecting with you today. You know again love to meet people over at pitchanything.com we're pretty accessible there and we'll take it from there. I can't wait for this to come out. I want to listen to it again. The I mean these these these topics are. You know as you know part of my experience but also we've research them heavily and even more so we've deployed them in thousands and thousands of business and those businesses come back and said that works. Right. And so that's why I'm talking about them here. because they really work.
Tripp: [00:49:19] Absolutely. All right. Thank you Oren.
Oren Klaff: [00:49:21] Thanks Tripp. I'll talk to you soon.
Tripp: [00:49:27] Thank you for being a listener. of the Mind Your Noodles podcast if you'd like to learn more or sign up for our newsletter or upcoming podcasts go to MindYourNoodles.com
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