Future Christian: Recent Episodes
Resonate Media
At the Future Christian Podcast, we talk to pastors, authors, and other faith leaders for helpful advice and practical wisdom to help you and your community of faith walk boldly into the future.
Can Mainline Christianity find its future?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with United Methodist scholar Lovett Weems to discuss his new book, An Aura of Hope: United Methodism's Next Chapter in the United States. While the conversation begins with the United Methodist Church's recent disaffiliation, it quickly broadens into a thoughtful exploration of the challenges facing Mainline Christianity as a whole—from shifting demographics and institutional decline to recovering a clear sense of mission.
Weems argues that the greatest challenge before the church isn't simply theological disagreement, but a loss of focus. Drawing on John Wesley's theology and decades of church leadership experience, he encourages congregations to rediscover "the people God has given us" and to evaluate every ministry by asking a simple question: "So that...?" What fruit is this producing? How is it helping the church fulfill its mission? Whether you're Methodist or not, this conversation offers practical wisdom for pastors and church leaders wondering what faithful ministry looks like in a rapidly changing world.
Together they explore:* What the United Methodist disaffiliation teaches the wider church * Why churches lose their sense of mission and identity * John Wesley's vision for "the people God has given us" * Lessons from the Sunday school movement * Rural churches, urban growth, and changing demographics * Why reaching younger and more diverse communities matters * The difference between institutional success and biblical fruitfulness
Dr. Lovett H. Weems, Jr., is distinguished professor of church leadership emeritus at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, DC. He came to Wesley in 2003 as the founding director of the Wesley’s Lewis Center for Church Leadership after eighteen years as president of Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City. Previously he was a pastor in Mississippi for many years. A native of Mississippi, Dr. Weems is a graduate of Millsaps College; Perkins School of Theology, Southern Methodist University; and Wesley Theological Seminary. He holds honorary degrees from Baker University, Central Methodist University, and Millsaps College. His years in local church ministry in Mississippi were marked by both evangelism and social concerns. His work in Mississippi led distinguished Mississippi writer Willie Morris to describe him as “one of the persons who added much to the growing civility of Mississippi.” He is the author of numerous books including his widely used church leadership text, Church Leadership: Vision, Team, Culture, and Integrity, described by Rosabeth Moss Kanter of Harvard Business School as “an invaluable guide to leadership in the church.” His most recent book is An Aura of Hope: United Methodism’s Next Chapter in the United States.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His Book: An Aura of Hope
🌐 Lewis Center for Leadership: churchleadership.com
🟧 His Substack: United Methodist Focus
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Doug Powe
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsLovett Weems, An Aura of Hope, United Methodist Church, United Methodist disaffiliation, mainline Christianity, future of the mainline church, church leadership, church renewal, congregational leadership, John Wesley, Methodist history, Methodist renewal, church identity, church mission, common good, Christian leadership, church demographics, rural churches, urban ministry, Sunday school movement, church growth, church decline, congregational vitality, fruitfulness in ministry, Lewis Center for Church Leadership, Francis Asbury, Christian conferencing, church and culture, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What if the sermon wasn't something delivered to the congregation—but something created with the congregation?
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with the Rev. Peter Levenstrong, associate rector of St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco and author of Collaborative Sermons. Peter shares how his congregation developed "Living Story Sermons," an interactive, tactile approach to preaching that invites worshippers to wonder together, contribute their own insights, and trust the Holy Spirit to speak through the entire community—not just the preacher.
Drawing from years of experimentation and research across multiple congregations, Peter discusses why collaborative preaching is more than a novel technique. It's a response to spiritual trauma, declining trust in institutions, growing digital isolation, and the church's need to become an embodied, relational community in an AI-shaped world.
Together, Martha and Peter explore how collaborative sermons foster biblical engagement, deepen participation, create healing, and offer a compelling vision for the future of Christian worship.
Together they explore:* Why traditional sermons often assume only one person has something worthwhile to say * The origins of Living Story Sermons during the COVID pandemic * How collaborative preaching builds trust and participation * Research findings on biblical retention and congregational engagement * Why collaborative sermons can be healing for people with church hurt * Creating "analog havens" in an increasingly AI-driven world * The future of preaching, worship, and embodied Christian community
The Rev. Peter Levenstrong is Associate Rector at St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco, where over the past six years he developed Living Stories Sermons, a collaborative, tactile preaching method now used by more than 130 preachers across denominations. His book Collaborative Sermons: A Guide to Authentic, Interactive Worship through Living Stories is out from Church Publishing in August 2026. He writes about the human part of ministry in an AI world on his Substack, The Human Part, and is a Trinity Leadership Fellow (2025–27) and Senior Fellow on AI at TryTank Research Institute. He holds an MDiv from Yale Divinity School and lives in Oakland with his wife Kaitlin and their son Caspian.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His Book: Collaborative Sermons
🌐 Living Stories Newsletter: LSS Sign-Up for Newsletter
🟧 Peter's Substack: The Human Part
📱 Socials: His Facebook
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Doug Pagitt
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsPeter Levenstrong, Collaborative Sermons, Living Story Sermons, collaborative preaching, interactive preaching, participatory worship, sermon preparation, preaching and AI, AI and ministry, future of preaching, Episcopal Church, St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church, Godly Play, Jerome Berryman, intergenerational worship, worship innovation, biblical engagement, church leadership, preaching methods, homiletics, sermon collaboration, Holy Spirit and preaching, analog church, embodied worship, digital discipleship, church and artificial intelligence, worship renewal, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does faithful Christian engagement in politics actually look like?
In this episode, Loren talks with Justin Giboney, co-founder and president of the AND Campaign, to discuss his book Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around. Drawing lessons from the Black Church during the Civil Rights Movement, Giboney argues that Christians today have much to learn about integrity, public witness, moral imagination, and resisting the temptation to sacrifice biblical principles for political victories.
The conversation also examines moral imagination, the role of institutions, gerrymandering, Christian public witness, and why the Civil Rights Movement remains one of the clearest examples of faithful political engagement in American history. Rather than offering partisan solutions, Giboney challenges Christians to recover a distinctly Christian approach to civic life that reflects the character of Jesus.
Together they explore:* What the Civil Rights Movement teaches Christians today * Moral imagination and faithful public witness * Why good causes don't justify unethical means * The danger of making political opponents irredeemable * Self-purification, spiritual formation, and Christian activism * How Christians can engage politics without embracing tribalism * Why justice and the gospel belong together
Justin E. Giboney (JD, Vanderbilt University) is the cofounder and president of the AND Campaign, a Christian civic organization focused on raising civic literacy, promoting civic pluralism, and equipping Christians to engage politics with the love and truth of Jesus Christ. An ordained minister, attorney, and political strategist, Giboney has been featured in publications such as the New York Times and Christianity Today and is the coauthor of the book Compassion (&) Conviction. He lives in Atlanta, Georgia, with his wife and three sons.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His Book: Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around
🌐 Website: andcampaign.org/
📱 Socials: @justinegiboney
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsJustin Giboney, AND Campaign, Don't Let Nobody Turn You Around, Black church, Civil Rights Movement, Christian public witness, faith and politics, Christian political engagement, moral imagination, Christian ethics, church and politics, civic engagement, political polarization, justice and the gospel, Christian nationalism, Christian civic responsibility, public theology, Martin Luther King Jr., Frederick Douglass, Ryan Burge, The Vanishing Church, Christian leadership, church and democracy, church and culture, civic pluralism, Christian discipleship, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
Why do so many church renewal efforts fall short?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Kris Vos and Larry Doornbos of the Center for Church Renewal about what they've learned from working with more than 120 congregations across North America. Rather than offering quick fixes or flashy programs, they make the case that genuine renewal begins with listening, discipleship, and a renewed commitment to the church's mission.
The conversation explores the common challenges facing churches today—from declining attendance and outdated governance structures to unhealthy congregational cultures and the temptation to prioritize institutional survival over the gospel. Kris and Larry explain why renewal is measured in years, not months, and why churches must focus on making disciples rather than simply attracting attenders.
They also discuss practical leadership questions: how to create a culture of grace and permission, why church structures should serve mission instead of hindering it, how congregations can better connect with their communities, and what leaders can learn from Native American and Latino churches about relationships and storytelling. Throughout the conversation, they emphasize that renewal is possible—but only through patient, intentional leadership rooted in the gospel.
Together they explore:* Why churches often misdiagnose their real problems * The "Big Three" challenges facing most congregations * Why outreach often fails to build lasting relationships * How church governance can either enable or hinder mission * Why renewal takes far longer than most churches expect * When churches should pursue renewal—and when it may be time to "complete and bless" * Lessons from Native American and Latino congregations
Kris Vos is the campus pastor of a church restart in Lake Worth, FL that is part of Sunlight Community Church campuses of South Florida. He is also the Director of the Center for Church Renewal. Previously, he spent 20 years leading a church plant, Crossroads Community Church, in Schererville, IN. On his journey of church planting, he spent time learning from and training other church planters. Currently, in the work of renewal he has come alongside other renewal leaders. His greatest passion is building relationships with people who don’t know Christ. He was discipled for 2 years in college and continues to invest himself in discipling others. He is married to Debra and together they have four children and four grandchildren.
Larry Doornbos loves and is committed to the local church. He is an experienced pastor, church planter, and leader. He began his ministry in Rehoboth, New Mexico. During his time Rehoboth CRC took fresh steps in ministry and mission. In 1993, Larry, along with a core group of seven families, began EverGreen Ministries in Hudsonville, Michigan. EverGreen is an outward-facing church that serves its community and the world. Larry served as Director of Vibrant Congregations, helping congregations discover their God-given, hope-filled future. Presently he is president of Imagine Church and director of the New Horizons Project. In his free time Larry loves hanging out with his wife Linda (professor at Oakland University), exploring cities and viewing British TV. He also works out, but he does not enjoy that at all. Linda and Larry have two children: Gayle, a professor at Dordt University, and Chris, a special-needs young man who inspires many.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: ChurchRenew.org
📱 Socials: @centerforchurchrenewal
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Jarrod Longbohns
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsKris Vos, Larry Doornbos, Center for Church Renewal, church renewal, church revitalization, renewing the church, congregational renewal, church leadership, church discipleship, making disciples, healthy church culture, church governance, church mission, missional church, church outreach, church growth, church decline, congregational transformation, church vision, discipleship pathway, church culture, church leadership development, Christian Reformed Church, Reformed Church in America, church planting, church life cycle, adaptive church leadership, Native American churches, Latino churches, Andrew Root, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
Every church tells a story. The question is: Is it the right one?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with sociologist Joel Thiessen about The Stories Congregations Tell, a research project exploring why some churches flourish through seasons of transition while others struggle. Drawing on case studies from congregations across Canada, Thiessen argues that the stories churches tell about their past, present, and future profoundly shape their identity, leadership, and mission.
The conversation explores how congregations develop a healthy sense of identity without becoming trapped by nostalgia, why flourishing is about far more than numerical growth, and how local churches are constantly shaped by the wider cultural stories surrounding them. Thiessen also explains why sociology can help churches understand themselves more honestly—not to replace theology, but to deepen it.
Whether your church is growing, plateauing, or navigating significant change, this conversation offers practical wisdom for understanding the narratives that shape congregational life—and how a healthier story can lead to a healthier future.
Together they explore:* Why every congregation tells a story—and why it matters * How churches connect their past, present, and future * The cultural stories shaping congregational life * How churches develop resilience through seasons of change * The importance of intergenerational community * How churches can resist the "bigger is better" mindset * Practical ways congregations can discover and live into their own story
Joel Thiessen is Professor of Sociology, Chair of the Social Sciences Department, and Director of the Flourishing Congregations Institute at Ambrose University in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. He is a sociologist of religion who specializes in religion in Canada, religious nones, congregations, millennials, and more recently, death and dying.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 The book: The Stories Congregations Tell
🌐 Website: joelthiessen.ca
🌐 Website: www.flourishingcongregations.org
📱 Socials: linkedin
🎧 Episodes Referenced: David Anderson Hooker
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Gerardo Marti & Mark Mulder
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
🎧 Episodes Referenced: John Hawthorne
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Cash & Wilcoxson
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Christian Smith
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsJoel Thiessen, The Stories Congregations Tell, flourishing congregations, church storytelling, congregational identity, church leadership, congregational flourishing, church growth research, sociology of religion, Canadian churches, church culture, congregational change, resilient churches, church transitions, church narrative, congregational resilience, intergenerational church, church mission and identity, spiritual formation, church leadership development, keychain leadership, Hartmut Rosa, Andrew Root, Christian Smith, Richard Osmer, Flourishing Congregations Institute, Ambrose University, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
Why do church search committees so often struggle to find the right pastor?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with novelist Michelle Huneven about her acclaimed novel Search, a witty and surprisingly insightful look at the dynamics of a church pastoral search committee. Although fictional, the novel captures many of the real-world challenges congregations face as they discern leadership, navigate competing priorities, and wrestle with their own identities.
The conversation explores why churches are often drawn to charismatic candidates, how institutional blind spots shape hiring decisions, and why healthy congregations begin with self-awareness rather than simply searching for the "perfect" pastor. Huneven reflects on the parallels between church searches, university hiring, and other institutional decision-making, highlighting how group dynamics, consensus, and competing visions of the future influence outcomes.
They also discuss declining church attendance, denominational structures, diversity, congregational governance, and the enduring tension between preserving tradition and embracing change. Along the way, Huneven shares practical wisdom from her own experience as a novelist, teacher, and occasional preacher about creativity, leadership, and the writing process.
Together they explore:* Why church search committees often struggle to discern the right leader * The appeal—and danger—of charismatic candidates * How group dynamics shape congregational decision-making * Institutional health and leadership transitions * Consensus, conflict, and competing visions for the future * Why healthy churches are marked by self-awareness
Michelle Huneven is the author of six novels, most recently Search and Bug Hollow. She teaches creative writing at UCLA. Among other honors she has received a James Beard Award, a Guggenheim Fellowship, and a Literature Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters. She lost her house in Altadena, California in the Eaton fire so, while rebuilding, she lived in Los Angeles with her husband, dog, and talkative African Gray parrot.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Her book: Search
🌐 Her Website: Michelle Huneven.com
📱 Socials: @michellehuneven
🎧 Episodes Referenced:
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsMichelle Huneven, Search novel, church search committees, pastoral search process, calling a pastor, church leadership transitions, congregational discernment, church governance, congregational polity, church committee dynamics, hiring a pastor, pastoral candidates, church conflict, charismatic leadership, institutional leadership, church decision making, healthy churches, congregational self-awareness, Unitarian Universalist church, Christian Church Disciples of Christ, United Church of Christ, Methodist church appointments, church decline, future of the church, ministry leadership, church consulting, creative writing and faith, novels about church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What happens when artificial intelligence becomes part of everyday life—and what role should the church play in helping people navigate it?
In this episode, Loren welcomes theologian, pastor, and AI thought leader Christopher Benek for a conversation about artificial intelligence, spiritual formation, ethics, and the future of the church. Drawing on more than a decade of work at the intersection of faith and technology, Benek argues that AI is not merely a technological challenge but a deeply theological one.
The conversation explores how churches can move beyond fear and hype to cultivate wisdom, discernment, and meaningful conversations about emerging technologies. Benek reflects on AI's impact on preaching, ministry, work, identity, and ethics, while emphasizing that the church's unique contribution is not technical expertise but spiritual formation.
Together they discuss the opportunities and risks presented by AI, why pastors should help people make meaning in a rapidly changing world, and how Christian communities can become places where technologists, leaders, and everyday people wrestle with difficult questions together. The episode ultimately returns to themes of hope, discipleship, and the enduring relevance of the church in an age of disruption.
Together they explore:* Whether AI should be used in sermon preparation and ministry * The difference between information, wisdom, and spiritual formation * How churches can facilitate conversations about AI ethics * Why pastors remain essential in an age of technological change * Whether AI represents the biggest technological shift since the printing press * How Christians can engage AI without fear or panic * What the church uniquely offers in a rapidly changing world
The Rev. Dr. Christopher J. Benek is an internationally recognized pastor, theologian, and thought leader at the crossroads of faith and technology. His insights on artificial intelligence and theology have been featured in major outlets, including The New York Times, The Guardian, BBC, Le Monde, and others. He has advised companies, policymakers, and governments on AI’s ethical and societal impact. With more than 20 years of pastoral ministry, he currently serves as pastor of First Miami Presbyterian Church and CEO of The CoCreators Network, an organization dedicated to the vision of Better People, Better Tech, Better World. Learn more about him at ChristopherBenek.com
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His book: The Church Leader's Guide to AI
🌐 His Website: ChristopherBenek.com
📱 Socials: @benekcj
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chris Benek
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mark DeYmaz
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Lorenzo Lebrija
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsChristopher Benek, artificial intelligence and Christianity, AI and theology, church and artificial intelligence, Christian AI ethics, faith and technology, AI in ministry, AI and preaching, pastors and artificial intelligence, spiritual formation and technology, theology of technology, Christian leadership and AI, AI ethics and faith, church leadership and innovation, future of the church, technology and discipleship, AI and human identity, meaning making and faith, digital ministry, Christian response to AI, AI and spiritual formation, emerging technology and religion, church innovation, theology and science, Christian ethics and technology, First Miami Presbyterian Church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean to stay at the table when disagreement, division, and distrust seem to be everywhere?
In this episode, talks with Rev. Terri Hord Owens, General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), about her book Staying at the Table: Being the Church We Say We Are. Drawing on her experience as a denominational leader, pastor, and former corporate executive, Hord Owens reflects on the spiritual practices, theological commitments, and communal habits needed to sustain Christian unity in a polarized age.
The conversation explores why staying at the table is both difficult and necessary, how churches can balance accountability with radical welcome, and why biblical literacy and spiritual formation remain essential for Christian witness. Hord Owens argues that churches often become more committed to preserving institutions than embodying the gospel, and she challenges Christians to recover a deeper commitment to love, humility, and community.
They also discuss denominational identity, the future of small churches, the role of data in understanding ministry realities, and how congregations can create space for people who are searching for a faith community after leaving more rigid religious environments.
Together they explore:* What it means to "stay at the table" amid disagreement * When unity is possible—and when leaving may be necessary * Why spiritual practices and biblical literacy matter * The tension between loving institutions and loving the gospel * Welcoming people who are deconstructing or leaving other traditions * Small churches, bivocational ministry, and denominational realities
Rev. Teresa “Terri” Hord Owens is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. She is the first person of color and second woman to lead the denomination, and the first woman of African descent to lead a mainline denomination. Elected in 2017, Rev. Hord Owens was re-elected to a second term as General Minister and President in 2023. Her ministry actively reflects the Disciples’ priority of being an anti-racist church, being a movement for wholeness, welcoming all to the Lord’s table as God has welcomed us. Her exhortation to the church is “Let’s be the church we say we are. It is in being who we say we are that we actively bear witness to God’s limitless love for all.” Rev. Hord Owens earned her bachelor’s degree from Harvard University and her MDiv from the University of Chicago Divinity School, where she subsequently served as Dean of Students for 12 years.
Rev. Hord Owens’ resume includes more than 20 years of leadership in corporate America leading diverse teams in data management. She serves on the National Council of Churches as the Vice Chair of the Governing Board and is a member of the World Council of Churches Central Committee. Rev. Hord Owens is married to Walter Owens, Jr. They are the proud parents of an adult son, W. Mitchell Owens, III and daughter-in-law Adriana Owens. She is also the joyful grandmother of Zachary Owens.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Her book: Staying at the Table
🔴 Disciples of Christ Website: Disciples.org
📱 Facebook: Terri Hord Owens
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Terri Hord Owens
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsTerri Hord Owens, Staying at the Table, Christian Church Disciples of Christ, Disciples of Christ denomination, Christian unity, church disagreement, staying at the table, radical welcome, open communion, Lord's Supper theology, biblical literacy, spiritual practices, Christian discipleship, church accountability, Christian hospitality, deconstruction and faith, exvangelical church, inclusive Christianity, anti-racist church, denominational leadership, church unity and diversity, small church ministry, bivocational ministry, future of the church, ecumenical Christianity, Howard Thurman, Walter Brueggemann, Christian leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
Why did religion decline in America—and was it really driven by hostility toward faith?
In this episode, Loren talks with sociologist Christian Smith about his book Why Religion Went Obsolete and the cultural, technological, and institutional changes that reshaped American religion over the last several decades. Smith, well known for coining the term “moralistic therapeutic deism,” argues that religion did not simply decline or get pushed out by secularism—it became culturally obsolete.
The conversation explores Smith’s argument that the early 1990s marked a major cultural turning point, driven by technological shifts, generational change, and evolving social expectations. Rather than abandoning spirituality altogether, many Americans sought meaning, identity, and transcendence elsewhere—in politics, digital communities, sports, and forms of what Smith calls “re-enchantment culture.”
They also discuss the continuing influence of moralistic therapeutic deism, the role of scandal and self-inflicted wounds within religious institutions, and why Christianity’s challenges may be more internal and cultural than simply ideological or political.
Together they explore:* The lasting influence of moralistic therapeutic deism * Why 1991 marked a cultural tipping point * “Re-enchantment” and the rise of alternative spiritualities * Religious scandal and Christianity’s self-inflicted wounds * Why authenticity matters for younger generations * Politics, polarization, and religion’s public witness * What churches can learn from cultural change and loneliness
Christian Smith is the William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology Emeritus and Founding Director of the Center for the Study of Religion and Society at the University of Notre Dame. Smith is well known for his research focused on religion, adolescents and emerging adults, and social theory. Smith received his MA and PhD from Harvard University in 1990 and his BA from Gordon College in 1983. He was a Professor of Sociology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for 12 years before his move to Notre Dame.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His book: Why Religion Went Obsolete
🌐 Notre Dame Website: https://christiansmith.nd.edu/
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsChristian Smith sociology, Why Religion Went Obsolete, religion decline America, religion obsolete thesis, moralistic therapeutic deism, spirituality and secular culture, religious decline sociology, post Christian America, church decline and culture, generational religion trends, millennials and religion, Gen Z and religion, religion and technology, re-enchantment culture, spirituality not religious, paganism and spirituality, politics and religion America, mainline Protestant decline, evangelical decline, religion and authenticity, social media and faith, sociology of religion, Christian Smith Notre Dame, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What happens when artificial intelligence goes to church?
In this episode, Loren talks with pastor, missiologist, and researcher Todd Korpi about his book AI Goes to Church: Pastoral Wisdom for Artificial Intelligence and the opportunities—and dangers—AI presents for faith communities.
Drawing from missiology, theology, and digital ministry research, Todd argues that AI is not merely a technical issue but a pastoral and spiritual one. Rather than approaching AI with either fear or blind enthusiasm, he invites Christians to ask deeper questions about wisdom, human identity, discipleship, and how technology shapes us.
The conversation explores how emerging technologies influence our relationships, attention, and understanding of what it means to be human. Todd reflects on social media as a cautionary tale, the church’s tendency to “hitch its wagon” too tightly to political or technological movements, and why discernment matters more than speed or productivity.
They also discuss the meaning of humanity as bearers of God’s image, the future of pastoral leadership, and why wisdom—not simply information—may be the church’s greatest contribution in an AI-shaped world.
Together they explore:* Why AI is a pastoral and spiritual issue—not just a technical one * Why human identity cannot be reduced to technology or intelligence * How AI can either create margin—or deepen busyness * Why pastors should function more as guides than information gatekeepers * What missiology teaches us about Gen Z and the future of the church * The power of story in evangelism and discipleship
Todd Korpi (DMiss, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a pastor, missiologist, and church consultant. He is dean of digital ministry programs at Ascent College, assistant professor of Christian leadership at Fuller Theological Seminary, and works in several capacities at OneHope. He also serves as the lead researcher of the Digital Mission Consortia, a collaborative research initiative exploring the frontier of digital ministry. Todd is the author of Your Daughters Shall Prophesy and The Life-Giving Spirit. He and his wife, Tara, live in Chicagoland with their three daughters.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Todd's book: https://www.ivpress.com/ai-goes-to-church
🌐 His Website: https://www.toddkorpi.com
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Len Tang
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsTodd Korpi, AI and Christianity, artificial intelligence church, AI Goes to Church, digital ministry, church and technology, Christian ethics and AI, theology of technology, missiology and culture, digital discipleship, artificial intelligence ethics, church leadership and AI, social media and faith, human identity and technology, imago Dei theology, wisdom vs information, future of pastoral leadership, Gen Z and church, storytelling and evangelism, post industrial church, digital church ministry, Pentecostal spirituality, technology and discipleship, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What if church buildings are far more valuable to communities than most people realize?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Bob Jaeger, co-founder and president of Partners for Sacred Places, about the future of church buildings, the hidden economic impact of congregations, and why sacred spaces still matter in an era of church decline.
Drawing from decades of work helping congregations preserve and reimagine their buildings, Bob explains how churches often underestimate both their civic value and the possibilities already sitting inside their walls. The conversation explores the “halo effect” of churches, the economic and social impact congregations have on neighborhoods, and why many churches need to rethink how they steward and share their spaces.
They discuss the rise of adaptive reuse projects, the dangers of waiting too long to make decisions about property, and how churches can partner with nonprofits, architects, and community organizations to imagine new futures for aging buildings. The conversation also explores the spiritual and cultural significance of church architecture and why sacred spaces continue to shape communities—even for people who never attend worship services.
Together they explore:* Why church buildings still matter spiritually and culturally * The “halo effect” and economic value churches bring to communities * Adaptive reuse, housing projects, and creative uses for church space * Why churches need community partnerships and outside support * The role of architecture in shaping faith and community identity * Why churches should think of their buildings as mission assets * What the future of sacred spaces might look like
Robert Jaeger is the co-founder and president of Partners for Sacred Places, the nation’s leading nonprofit dedicated to the stewardship and preservation of historic religious properties. Since 1989, he has helped congregations across the country sustain their buildings as vital community assets, leading initiatives such as the Economic Halo Effect study and the New Dollars/New Partners program.
With a background in historic preservation and organizational leadership, Jaeger previously founded the Historic Religious Properties Preservation Program at the Philadelphia Historic Preservation Corporation and has extensive experience in research, consulting, and publishing. He is the author or co-author of several influential works on sacred spaces and community renewal and has lectured widely at national and international conferences. Jaeger holds an MBA from the University of Michigan and a master’s degree in Preservation Planning from Cornell University.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Sacred Places Magazine: Link here
🌐 Sacred Places Website: Partners for Sacred Places
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / KeywordsBob Jaeger, Partners for Sacred Places, church buildings future, sacred spaces preservation, church architecture theology, economic halo effect churches, adaptive reuse church buildings, church property redevelopment, church decline and buildings, historic church preservation, sacred places community impact, churches and affordable housing, church civic value, church fundraising property, nonprofit partnerships churches, church space sharing, community centered church, stewardship of church buildings, sacred architecture meaning, future of church property, church revitalization strategies, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What if the story we’ve been told about Anne Boleyn is missing the most important part?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Martha Tatarnic—priest, author, and co-host of the podcast—about her new book Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History and the overlooked role Anne played in shaping the English Reformation.
Drawing from historical research and theological reflection, Martha challenges the familiar narrative that reduces Anne to a pawn in Henry VIII’s story. Instead, she presents Anne as a deeply formed, intellectually engaged, and theologically motivated leader whose influence helped shape the future of the Anglican Church.
The conversation explores how Anne’s faith informed her convictions, her advocacy for an English Bible, and her support of key reformers whose impact is still felt today. They also examine how history has often distorted Anne’s story—especially through gendered narratives that diminish strong women—and why those patterns still matter for leadership in the church today.
They discuss the ongoing challenges women face in ministry, the temptation toward self-congratulation in church systems, and the work still needed to create environments where all leaders can truly flourish.
Together they explore:* Why Anne Boleyn’s story has been misunderstood or misrepresented * Her role as a reformer, not just a historical figure * How her faith shaped her influence on the English Reformation * How gendered narratives distort history and leadership * Ongoing challenges for women in church leadership today * Why the church must move beyond self-congratulation toward real change * How Anne’s legacy still shapes Anglican identity and practice
Martha Tatarnic is a contributor to Christian Century, a blogger on Medium, and co-host of the Future Christian podcast. She is the author of Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church. She is a priest in the Anglican Church of Canada and rector at St. George's Anglican Church in St. Catherines, Ontario. She lives in Catherines, Ontario, Canada.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Martha's Books: https://churchpublishing.org/search?q=martha%20ta
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: Pt 1
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: Pt 2
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History - Available now!
Loren's New Book: The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive - Available for pre-order!
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Anne Boleyn history, Anne Boleyn Reformation, English Reformation origins, Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn, Anglican Church history, Martha Tatarnic, women in church leadership, gender and church history, female leaders Christianity, church leadership challenges, Bible in English history, Tyndale New Testament, Thomas Cranmer Book of Common Prayer, Anglican identity theology, faith and power dynamics, church and patriarchy, women clergy challenges, sexual misconduct church accountability, historical theology women, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What happens when a pastor realizes they’re going through the motions—but not actually experiencing God?
In this episode, Loren talks with Rev. Dr. Katherine Willis Pershey about faith, formation, and the unexpected influence of Eugene Peterson on her life and ministry. Drawing from her own journey across multiple Christian traditions, Katherine reflects on the tension between justice, belief, and personal encounter with God.
The conversation explores how Peterson’s writing helped her rediscover prayer, Scripture, and the heart of pastoral vocation—not as performance or productivity, but as attentiveness to a living, active God. They also wrestle with the challenges of ministry in a secular age, the pressures facing pastors today, and the difficulty of maintaining spiritual depth in a culture shaped by busyness and division.
They discuss the false divide between personal piety and social justice, the importance of spiritual practices like prayer and worship, and what it means to lead faithfully in a fragmented and polarized church landscape.
Together they explore:* How Eugene Peterson reshaped her understanding of ministry * The struggle to experience God while leading a church * Why personal piety and social justice belong together * The dangers of a purely “therapeutic” model of ministry * What it means to believe in a real, active God today * Navigating faith across evangelical and progressive divides * Why pastors must protect time for prayer and reading
Katherine Willis Pershey serves as co-pastor of First Congregational UCC Appleton, Wisconsin, having previously served congregations in Illinois and California. She is the author of Very Married: Field Notes on Love and Fidelity and co-author of Love Letters to God, and is a regular contributor to the Christian Century. She received a DMin from the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination at Western Theological Seminary in 2024.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Katherine's Website: katherinewillispershey.com
📖 Katherine's Books: Books & Writings
🟧 Katherine's Substack: katherinewillispershey.substack.com/
📱 Facebook: @katherinewillispershey
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: www.instagram.com/lorenrichmondjr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Katherine Willis Pershey, Eugene Peterson theology, The Message Bible, pastoral theology, spiritual formation pastors, progressive Christianity and orthodoxy, personal piety and social justice, prayer and ministry, contemplative pastor, working the angles, secular age Christianity, faith and doubt journey, church leadership formation, spiritual direction, mainline and evangelical divide, real active God theology, pastoral burnout and busyness, discipleship and formation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What if the early church wasn’t built primarily on teaching ideas—but on forming people together in the way of Jesus?
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Dr. John Lewis about his book Discernment in the Early Church and Today and what we’ve misunderstood about the Apostle Paul. Drawing from deep study of Paul’s writings and decades of practical ministry, Lewis challenges the tendency to treat Paul as a systematic theologian rather than a pastor forming communities of lived faith.
The conversation explores how early Christian communities were shaped through shared practices of discernment, where ordinary life events became the setting for discovering how Christ is at work. Rather than focusing primarily on belief or abstract theology, Paul’s aim was to form people over time—individually and communally—into the image of Jesus.
They also discuss how this model translates today through small group discernment practices, the role of Scripture in shaping imagination rather than prescribing answers, and why this approach may be especially important in a time of political tension, institutional distrust, and spiritual fragmentation.
Together they explore:
- Why Paul was more pastor than systematic theologian
- How early Christian communities practiced discernment together
- The role of experience in forming faith—not just belief
- How small groups cultivate trust, vulnerability, and formation
- Why Scripture shapes imagination rather than giving simple answers
- Navigating politics and cultural tension through a Christ-centered lens
- Practical ways churches can recover communal discernment today
John Lewis is Theologian in Residence for the Iona Collaborative at Seminary of the Southwest (Austin, Texas), where he teaches online and in-person continuing education courses in New Testament and congregational leadership. He previously served as the seminary’s Director of the Iona Collaborative and Lecturer in New Testament and Spirituality (2016-21). John is also Co-Director of St. Benedict’s Workshop (San Antonio, Texas), a non-profit ministry he founded in 2001 to help Christian communities use Scripture to practice discipleship and discernment in all areas of daily life. Lewis is the author of Discernment in the Early Church and Today: Reclaiming Paul’s Vision for Formation and Community Building (Seabury Press, 2025) and Looking for Life: The Role of “Theo-Ethical Reasoning” in Paul’s Religion (T&T Clark [Continuum], 2005). He holds a Doctor of Philosophy in New Testament degree from the University of Oxford (2004) and a Master of Divinity degree, with honors, from Virginia Theological Seminary (1997). Prior to his ordination in The Episcopal Church (1997), John was a trial lawyer in San Antonio, Texas.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Iona Website: www.iona.ssw.edu
📖 John's Book: www.iona.ssw.edussw.edu/discernment-in-the-early-church-today/
📱 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ionacollaborative
📱 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ionacollaborative
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: www.instagram.com/lorenrichmondjr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
John Lewis, theologian, Apostle Paul theology, early church practices, communal discernment, spiritual formation church, discipleship and formation, Pauline theology, church leadership formation, small group ministry, discernment practices, Scripture and imagination, lived faith Christianity, church and community building, ecclesia meaning, New Testament church life, formation vs information church, Anglican theology, Episcopal Church leadership, church renewal practices, faith and daily life, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic, Loren Richmond Jr.
What’s really driving polarization in our churches—and how can leaders respond without getting pulled into the chaos?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Jack Shatama to explore how family systems theory helps make sense of rising anxiety, division, and reactivity in both the church and society. Drawing on insights from sociology, leadership theory, and pastoral experience, Jack offers a framework for leading with clarity, conviction, and calm in an increasingly fragmented world.
The conversation unpacks how chronic anxiety fuels polarization, why churches often get stuck in reactive patterns, and how leaders can cultivate a “non-anxious presence” that creates space for healthier relationships and deeper discipleship.
Together they explore:* How chronic anxiety leads to polarization in church and culture * The difference between process and content—and why it matters * Why conflict often becomes a “battle of wills” * How identity has shifted from faith-based to politically driven * Why setting boundaries is essential for healthy leadership * The challenge of maintaining mission in anxious systems
Jack Shitama is the Director of the Center for Vital Leadership, which serves the Peninsula-Delaware and Baltimore-Washington Conferences of The United Methodist Church (UMC). He is an ordained UMC minister and has served as pastor of churches in Port Deposit, MD and Chesapeake City, MD. Jack is the author of four books: Anxious Church, Anxious People, One New Habit, One Big Goal, If You Met My Family You’d Understand, Everyone Loves a Non-Anxious Presence. His website is the www.thenonanxiousleader.com. His podcast, The Non-Anxious Leader podcast is available on all platforms. Jack and his wife of 44 years, Jodi, have four children and seven grandchildren. Jack is an avid runner and has completed the Baltimore Marathon three times. He occasionally plays guitar and bass in the Jacob’s Well Band, his church’s worship band. He enjoys all kinds of sports, cooking, reading, traveling and, most of all, seeing people experience spiritual growth.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Jack's Website: https://thenonanxiousleader.com/about-jack-shitama/
📖 Jack's Books: https://thenonanxiousleader.com/books/
🎧 Jack's Podcast: The Non-Anxious Leader
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Jack Shitama
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Jack Shatama, non-anxious leadership, family systems theory church, Edwin Friedman Failure of Nerve, Murray Bowen theory, church polarization, anxiety in leadership, process vs content leadership, conflict of wills, self differentiation leadership, church conflict resolution, mainline church decline, Ryan Burge sociology religion, political polarization and church, identity and faith formation, micro habits spiritual practices, habit stacking faith, leadership boundaries church, difficult people in church, emotionally healthy leadership, discipleship formation church, future of the church leadership, adaptive leadership church, church systems thinking, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean to lead the church in a time when the old maps no longer work—and the future feels uncertain?
In this episode, Loren talks with Alan Roxburgh about leadership, the “great unraveling,” and why the church may be entering a prolonged “dark night” rather than a season of quick renewal. Drawing from Scripture, particularly the book of Jeremiah, Roxburgh challenges the assumption that progress and revival are inevitable. Instead, he invites leaders to reconsider how God forms communities of hope in seasons of disruption, not stability.
The conversation explores how modern Western culture has shaped the church’s expectations around success, individualism, and technique—and why those frameworks may no longer be sustainable. Roxburgh emphasizes the need to recover practices of presence, listening, and local engagement as the foundation for faithful leadership.
They also discuss the role of place, the importance of reimagining church spaces, and how communities can resist isolation by forming deeper, more relational ways of life. Ultimately, this episode reframes the future of the church not as something to fix or control, but as something to discern through attentiveness to God’s ongoing work.
Together they explore:
- Why the church may be entering a “dark night” rather than a season of revival
- How modern culture has shaped the church’s assumptions about growth and success
- The practices of dwelling, discerning, and exploring in local communities
- Why relationships—not programs or expertise—are central to faithful leadership
- Rethinking church buildings, space, and imagination in a changing world
- Recovering attentiveness to God’s agency in a culture shaped by technique and control
Alan Roxburgh has served as a pastor, seminary professor, consultant and mentor in leadership and missional transformation. He lives with his wife and extended family in Vancouver, British Columbia. He has writing 15 books on mission, leadership and culture change. In his work he addresses questions of church and mission convinced the Spirit is fermenting a movement of God's people that can’t be contained in narratives of renewal, reform or fixing existing systems. His latest books are: Leadership, God’s Agency and Disruptions (with Mark au Branson) and Forming Communities of Hope in the Great Unraveling (with Roy Searle).
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Alan's Website: https://alanroxburgh.com/
📖 Alan's Book: Forming Communities of Hope in the Great Unraveling
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Alan Roxburgh, missional church movement, communities of hope, great unraveling church, church leadership in uncertainty, post-Christendom church, missional leadership, Jeremiah and exile theology, dark night of the church, church decline and renewal, future of the church, local church practices, dwelling discerning exploring, neighborhood ministry, church and modernity critique, individualism and church culture, reimagining church spaces, ecclesiology and mission, spiritual practices and leadership, God’s agency in the church, Western church crisis, adaptive vs faithful leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean to center the life of the church around the table—and why has the Eucharist so often been pushed to the margins?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons about cultivating a Eucharistic movement in the modern church. Drawing from theology, liturgical practice, and pastoral experience, Longbons invites leaders to reconsider how worship has shifted toward production and consumption—and what is lost when the table is no longer central.
The conversation explores how the Eucharist forms identity over time, not just as a ritual but as a way of life. Rather than seeing communion as an add-on or symbolic moment, they discuss how it can become the organizing center of worship, shaping how communities understand grace, presence, and participation. They also reflect on how modern church models often prioritize content over formation, why repetition and liturgy still matter, and what it might look like to reorient church life around shared practices that cultivate deeper community and spiritual depth.
Together they explore:
- Why the Eucharist has been marginalized in modern worship
- The difference between consumer-driven worship and Eucharistic formation
- How the table shapes identity, community, and mission
- The formative power of liturgy and repetition
- What it looks like to re-center worship around communion
- Practical ways church leaders can begin cultivating a Eucharistic culture
Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons is the Senior Minister of Peachtree Christian Church, where he seeks to share the heart of Christ in the heart of the city. A pastor-theologian and gifted communicator, he brings together thoughtful biblical interpretation, pastoral warmth, and a passion for connecting faith with contemporary life. Jarrod is deeply committed to discipleship, worship, and cultivating a church that serves both its members and the wider community. His ministry is shaped by a love for teaching, the arts, and the formation of leaders for the Church. He and his family consider it a joy to walk alongside the people of Peachtree in God’s ongoing work of renewal and hope. Outside of ministry, he enjoys Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Golf, and Fly Fishing.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Jarrod's Church Website: Peachtree Christian Church
🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Complex Creatures
🎧 Jarrod's Podcast: Who Watches the Re-Watchers
🟧 Jarrod's Substack: keepafire.substack.com
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ted Smith
🎧 Episodes Referenced: DOC Roundtable
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Eucharistic movement, Eucharist theology, communion centrality, Lord’s Supper, sacramental theology, liturgical renewal, table-centered worship, worship formation, consumer vs formative worship, church worship practices, liturgy and repetition, embodied faith, communal worship, spiritual formation church, re-centering the church, historic Christian practices, future of the church, church leadership and worship, Jarrod Longbons, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it really take to engage younger generations—and why do so many of our assumptions about them fall short?
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with sociologist Dr. Josh Packard about his book Faithful Futures and what churches often misunderstand about Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Drawing from years of research, Packard challenges the tendency to reduce younger generations to stereotypes and instead invites leaders to approach them with curiosity, humility, and a posture of listening.
The conversation explores how rapid cultural change has created a “fast and slow” dynamic in young people’s lives, why relationships—not institutions—are now the primary source of trust, and how churches can rethink formation beyond simply passing down right answers.
They also discuss the importance of communal worship in an age of loneliness, the role of sacred space, and how young people are constructing “micro-narratives” of meaning in a world where institutional authority is often questioned.
Together they explore:
- Why generational stereotypes fail—and what to focus on instead
- The “fast and slow” reality of growing up today
- How trust has shifted from institutions to relationships
- Why listening matters more than giving answers
- The role of communal worship and sacred space in a lonely world
- How young people build meaning through “micro-narratives”
Dr. Josh Packard is the co-founder of Future of Faith and one of the foremost experts in the spiritual lives of American youth and religious trends in the United States. He is an accomplished researcher in the sociology of religion and new forms of religious expression. He is a frequent keynote speaker and acts as an advisor and board member to a number of faith-based organizations. Josh has authored numerous books and articles in both popular and academic outlets including the recently released Faithful Futures: Sacred Tools for Engaging Younger Generations. Previous books include Church Refugees: Sociologists reveal why people are DONE with church but not their faith and Meaning Making: 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations. Josh was previously a professor, founding Executive Director of Springtide Research Institute and Executive Vice President of Strategy with the National Catholic Educational Association. He has a BA in English from Texas Lutheran University and Ph.D. in Sociology from Vanderbilt University. He lives in Greeley, Colorado with his wife and teenage son where he is quickly becoming the third best golfer in his family of three.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Josh's Website: Future of Faith
📖 Josh's Book: Faithful Futures
📱Twitter/X: @drjoshpackard
📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshpackard/
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Megan Bissell
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Ryan Burge
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean to live faithfully in a world that rewards conformity—and why might the Christian life feel “weird”?
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Aaron Miller about what it looks like to follow Jesus in a way that resists cultural expectations and embraces a more intentional, embodied faith. Drawing from his ministry experience and writing, Aaron reframes “weird” not as something to avoid, but as a sign of living in alignment with the kingdom of God.
The conversation explores how practices like prayer, Scripture, lament, and worship form disciples who can live with clarity and conviction in a complex world. Aaron also highlights the role of imagination in the Christian life—both as a response to cultural challenges and as a way to envision communities shaped by hope.
They discuss the importance of formation over performance, the tension between cultural relevance and faithfulness, and how local churches can cultivate rhythms that sustain authentic discipleship.
Together they explore:
- Why the Christian life can feel “weird”—and why that’s not a problem
- The role of spiritual practices in forming faithful disciples
- How imagination shapes both personal faith and church life
- The importance of lament, presence, and embodied faith
- What it looks like to live with intentionality in everyday life
Rev Aaron Miller is the congregational minister at University Hill United Church, and the UCC campus minister at the University of British Columbia. He is the author of Witnesses of These Things: Faithfulness Here and Now, and Weird in the World: Living Towards the World God Wants. Aaron lives in Vancouver with his wife, Kate, and their teenaged sons.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Aaron's Website:
📖 Aaron's Book: Weird in the World
📖 Aaron's Book: Witnesses of These Things
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kara Root
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Aaron Miller, Martha Tatarnic, Christian discipleship, spiritual formation, living weird for Jesus, Christian practices, prayer and Scripture, lament and worship, imagination and faith, Sermon on the Mount, Psalm 34, practicing the way, church leadership formation, mainline church, authentic faith, embodied discipleship, Future Christian Podcast
What can sports rivalries and cultural moments reveal about leadership, character, and the values that shape us?
In this episode, Loren and Martha take a conversational turn that begins with sports, competition, and cultural dynamics—but quickly opens into deeper reflections on character, leadership, and community. What starts as a lighthearted discussion about sports rivalries between Canada and the United States becomes a thoughtful conversation about identity, integrity, and how competition reveals the values that lie beneath the surface of our culture. Along the way, they reflect on how rivalry, loyalty, and belonging shape the way communities see themselves and others.
The conversation also explores the ways everyday cultural moments—whether sports, media, or shared public experiences—can open surprising opportunities to think more deeply about leadership, character, and the habits that form us. This episode offers a reflective and engaging conversation about competition, identity, and the cultural stories that shape the way we live and lead.
Together they explore:
- How sports rivalries shape identity and community
- What competition reveals about character and leadership
- The cultural narratives embedded in sports and public life
- The tension between rivalry, belonging, and respect
- How everyday cultural moments can open deeper conversations about values and faith
Mentioned Resources:
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bill Harrison
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Arianna Molloy
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Martha Tatarnic, sports and faith, leadership and character, competition and culture, Christian leadership formation, church leadership conversations, cultural analysis and faith, community and identity, discipleship and culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., faith and culture discussion
What does it mean to belong to God when the structures of faith you once trusted begin to fall apart?
In this episode, Loren talks with Kara Root—pastor, spiritual director, and author of The Deepest Belonging and A Pilgrimage into Letting Go—about faith, loss, and the surprising ways God rebuilds belief when certainty collapses.
Drawing from her own journey through the unraveling of a ministry-centered evangelical world, Kara reflects on how faith can be rebuilt from the ground up through pilgrimage, prayer, and honest encounters with suffering. The conversation explores the difference between inherited faith and lived faith, and why belonging to God often emerges most clearly when our illusions fall away.
They also discuss the role of Sabbath rest, spiritual practices, and pastoral leadership in helping congregations navigate seasons of change and uncertainty.
This episode offers a reflective and hopeful conversation about letting go of what no longer holds—and discovering the deeper belonging God offers in its place.
Together they explore:
- How faith can be rebuilt after the collapse of inherited religious systems
- The spiritual significance of pilgrimage and letting go
- Why belonging to God is deeper than belonging to institutions
- The role of Sabbath, prayer, and spiritual practices in sustaining faith
- How pastors and churches navigate seasons of change and uncertainty
Rev. Kara K. Root is the author of The Deepest Belonging (2021), Receiving This Life: (2023), and A Pilgrimage Into Letting Go (2025, with husband, Andy). Pastor of Lake Nokomis Presbyterian Church in Minneapolis, MN, a Christian community that shapes its life around worship, hospitality and Sabbath rest, she is a trained Spiritual Director and Certified Educator in the PCUSA. Being mom to two intrepid young adults (and a goofy dog), and wife and proofreader to a wily theologian, spices up her vocational calling and keeps her fully immersed in life.
She has written for Sparkhouse, Working Preacher, Christian Century, Christianity Today, Faith and Leadership, Patheos and more. Kara leads retreats and workshops on sabbath rest, prayer practices, and church leadership and transformation. Kara and her husband, Andy, lead workshops and speak together through Root Creative, inc.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Kara's Website: https://www.karakroot.com/about.html#/
📖 Kara's Book: A Pilgrimage into Letting Go
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Andy Root
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Kelsey McGinnis
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Kara Root, The Deepest Belonging, A Pilgrimage into Letting Go, faith after deconstruction, spiritual pilgrimage, Sabbath practices, spiritual formation, rebuilding faith, pastoral leadership, church and doubt, belonging to God, Christian spiritual practices, evangelicalism and faith transition, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
How did contemporary praise and worship develop—and who is shaping what the church sings today?
In this episode, Loren talks with Kelsey McGinnis to explore the evolution of modern worship, the lingering effects of the “worship wars,” and the growing influence of the worship industry on local congregations.
They discuss how large-scale production and publishing networks shape song selection and theology, the unseen pressures facing worship leaders, and what healthy support actually looks like in a local church. The conversation also revisits the hymns versus modern worship debate, the renewed interest in liturgy, and whether lament, silence, and stillness have space in contemporary services.
This episode offers a thoughtful, grounded look at how what we sing forms what we believe—and how churches might lead worship more intentionally in the years ahead.
Together they explore:
- The rise of contemporary praise and worship
- How the worship industry shapes theology and song selection
- The pressures facing today’s worship leaders
- Hymns, liturgy, and the place of lament
- Whether secular songs belong in church
Kelsey McGinnis is the worship correspondent for Christianity Today. She holds a PhD in musicology and teaches music and theology at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, and writes broadly on Christian music and the intersection of American Christianity and popular culture. Kelsey is a coauthor of the book The Myth of Good Christian Parenting and the author of a forthcoming book about Christian diet and wellness culture. She lives in central Iowa with her husband and three children.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Kelsey's Website: https://www.kkramermcginnis.com/
📖 Kelsey's Book: The Myth of Good Christian Parenting
🟧 Kelsey's Substack: https://kkramermcginnis.substack.com/
📱 Instagram: @kelseykmcginnis
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michael Huerter
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
contemporary worship, praise and worship history, worship wars, worship industry, church music theology, hymns vs modern worship, liturgy renewal, lament in worship, worship leader burnout, secular songs in church, worship culture, evangelical worship music, mainline worship styles, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does Gen Z really believe about God? And what are they actually asking?
In this episode, Loren talks with Tanita Tualla Maddox, National Director for Generational Impact at Young Life and author of What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God. Tanita offers a compelling case for cultural apologetics—understanding the lens through which Gen Z asks timeless questions like “Is God good?” She also challenges churches to move from abstract teaching to concrete spiritual practices that help young people live out their faith in real relationships.
Together they explore:
- Why headlines about Gen Z “revival” can be misleading
- The reality of low trust culture—and how to earn it
- How Gen Z defines acceptance, belonging, and safety
- Why evangelism must go beyond “just invite your friends to church”
- Practical ways churches can disciple students in a post-Christian world
- The importance of teaching young people to articulate their own testimony
- Why isolating teenagers from the broader church might be a mistake
Tanita Tualla Maddox (DMin, Phoenix Seminary) is the national director for generational impact for Young Life and serves as an associate regional director in the Mountain West Young Life region. With an expertise in contextualizing the gospel for Gen Z, Tanita has been featured on The Holy Post podcast and has been published in The Great Commission Research Journal, the Journal of Youth and Theology, and more. She has served as Young Life leader with adolescents for over twenty-six years and serves as a volunteer Young Life leader in her local community. She lives in Spokane, Washington, with her husband and two children.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Her Website: https://tanitamaddox.com/
📖 Her Book: https://www.ivpress.com/what-gen-z-really-wants-to-know-about-god
📱 Instagram & FB: @drtanitamaddox
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Orr
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Tanita Tualla Maddox, Gen Z faith, What Gen Z Really Wants to Know About God, Young Life, generational ministry, youth ministry strategy, cultural apologetics, post-Christian culture, evangelism training, Gen Z and church, belonging and acceptance, discipling teenagers, low trust culture, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What happens when pastors care for everyone else—but neglect their own soul?
In this episode, Loren talks with Bill and Kristi Gaultiere, founders of Soul Shepherding and co-authors of Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You. Together, they explore why emotional health is not optional for Christian leaders—and why empathy begins with receiving God’s love, not just offering it to others. Drawing from decades of experience in psychology, spiritual direction, and ministry leadership, the Gaultieres unpack the difference between empathy and indulgence, how unaddressed shame leads to burnout, and why pastors must have a safe place to be listened to and prayed for.
They also discuss:
- Why emotions are gifts—but terrible masters
- The danger of processing unresolved wounds from the platform
- Burnout warning signs every pastor should recognize
- Compassion fatigue and isolation in ministry
- Why leaders must receive pastoral care, not just provide it
This conversation is a candid and practical guide for church leaders who want their ministry to flow from healing and authenticity rather than exhaustion and performance.
Bill is a psychologist (PhD) and ordained pastor and Kristi is a licensed professional counselor (PsyD). Together they lead Soul Shepherding, which is a nonprofit ministry to help pastors, leaders, churches, and others to go deeper with Jesus in emotional health and loving leadership. They lead immersive retreats that integrate Jesus-centered psychology and spiritual formation. Participants have the option to earn a Certificate in Spiritual Direction to improve their relationship skills and earn side income as a spiritual director or coach. They are authors of a number of soul care books, including Journey of the Soul, which was #1 on Amazon in Christian Counseling, and Healthy Feelings, Thriving Faith. Their newest book is Deeply Loved: Receiving and Reflecting God’s Great Empathy for You.
Bill and Kristi have provided over 100,000 hours helping clients in therapy or spiritual direction. They were also personally mentored by Dallas and Jane Willard for many years. They have developed a unique approach to spiritual direction that is informed by their Jesus-centered psychology. Their two-year Certificate in Spiritual Direction training program is a hybrid of in person retreats and online training (or it can be completed 100% online) and currently has over 150 students participating.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Their Website: www.soulshepherding.org
🌐 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/billgaultiere
📱 Instagram & FB: @soulshepherding
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chuck DeGroat
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Josh Packard
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tara Beth Leach
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Bill Gaultiere, Kristi Gaultiere, Soul Shepherding, Deeply Loved book, empathy in ministry, pastoral burnout, emotional health for pastors, compassion fatigue, spiritual direction training, church leadership formation, sustainable ministry, shame and leadership, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
Why should we still be planting churches—and what should church planting look like in a rapidly changing world?
In this episode, Loren is joined by Len Tang, Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, for a wide-ranging conversation about mission, formation, and the future of church planting.
Drawing on his experience planting churches and training planters across diverse contexts, Len reframes church planting as a normal part of the church’s life cycle—one that includes birth, growth, reproduction, and sometimes faithful endings. The conversation explores why growth alone is an inadequate metric, how global migration is reshaping mission fields, and why new expressions of church must be deeply contextual, diverse, and disciple-centered.
Loren and Len also discuss the emotional and spiritual realities of church planting: grief, resilience, failure, and the importance of practices like Sabbath, lament, and community support. Rather than treating church planting as a silver bullet, the episode makes the case for forming leaders with character, humility, and a deep grounding in the way of Jesus.
This is a thoughtful conversation for pastors, planters, denominational leaders, and anyone discerning how the church can participate faithfully in God’s mission today.
Topics Include* Why church planting is a normal—and finite—part of church life * Growth, reproduction, and the reality of church endings * Global migration and new mission fields close to home * Moving beyond one-size-fits-all planting models * Bivocational ministry, social entrepreneurship, and sustainability * Character over charisma in church planting leadership * Grief, failure, and resilience in ministry * Discipleship as the true measure of fruitfulness
Len Tang is the Director of the Church Planting Initiative at Fuller Seminary, and has planted two churches: Cedar Creek Church in Sherwood, Oregon, and Missio Community Church in Pasadena, CA. He received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from UC Berkeley and an MDiv from Fuller Seminary. He is married to Amy and they have three young adult boys, a cat, and an electric motorcycle.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Fuller Website: churchplanting.fuller.edu
🌐 Website: Faithful Resistance.com
📱 Len's Instagram & FB: @len.tang
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Tim Morey
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Nick Warnes
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dwight Zscheile
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Martha's New Book! Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History Available for Pre-order now!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Len Tang, church planting, Fuller Seminary church planting initiative, missional church, discipleship and mission, global migration and church, bivocational ministry, church growth vs faithfulness, church planter formation, character over charisma, failure in ministry, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What if the future of the church isn’t found in choosing between old and new—but in learning how both can flourish together?
In this episode, Loren is joined by Dwight Zscheile and Blair Pogue for a wide-ranging conversation about their book, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, and what it means to form Christian communities in a changing world.
Drawing on their experience in congregational leadership, theological education, and diocesan innovation, Dwight and Blair make the case for a mixed ecology of church—where inherited congregations, new communities, fresh expressions, digital ministry, and lay-led initiatives work together to embody the gospel. Rather than dismissing institutions or chasing quick fixes, the conversation emphasizes discipleship, listening to neighbors, and adapting church forms without abandoning the substance of the faith.
The episode also explores why activism alone cannot sustain Christian identity, how polarization distorts formation, and why the church must recover practices that shape people into a distinct way of life centered on Jesus.
Topics Include* What a “mixed ecology” of church actually means * Why inherited churches still matter—and where they fall short * Fresh expressions, microchurches, and lay-led ministry * Discipleship vs. political or cultural substitutes for faith * Listening as the starting point for mission * Digital ministry as doorway, not replacement * When and how churches may need to end faithfully
The Rev. Dwight Zscheile, Ph.D. is professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is author of Embracing the Mixed Ecology: Inherited and New Forms of Christian Community Flourishing Together (with Blair Pogue, Seabury Books 2025), Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future (with Michael Binder and Tessa Pinkstaff, Fortress, 2023), Participating in God’s Mission: A Theological Missiology for the Church in America (with Craig Van Gelder, Eerdmans, 2018), The Agile Church: Spirit-Led Innovation in an Uncertain Age (Morehouse Publishing, 2014), People of the Way: Renewing Episcopal Identity (Morehouse Publishing, 2012) and The Missional Church in Perspective: Mapping Trends and Shaping the Conversation (with Craig Van Gelder, Baker Academic 2011), editor of Cultivating Sent Communities: Missional Spiritual Formation (Eerdmans, 2012) and co-editor (with Ed Olsworth-Peter) of The Starter’s Way: Leading New Contextual Christian Communities (Church Publishing, 2025). A graduate of Stanford University (BA), Yale University (MDiv) and Luther Seminary (PhD, Congregational Mission and Leadership), he has served congregations in Minnesota and Virginia. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.
The Rev. Canon Blair Pogue is the Canon for Innovation for the Episcopal Church in Minnesota. In that capacity she helps congregations all over the state go deeper in their practice of the Christian faith and rethink how they form disciples and engage the communities surrounding their church. She also runs learning communities for Episcopalians wanting to learn how to form Christian community with neighbors where they live, work, and play. Before joining Bishop Craig Loya’s staff she was the rector of St. Matthew’s Episcopal Church in St. Paul for 16 ½ years, and before that she served two churches in the Diocese of Virginia, with a special focus on Christian formation. She is a graduate of Luther Seminary (D.Min in Congregational Mission and Leadership), Yale Divinity School (M.Div), and Whitman College (B.A.).
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Their Book: Embracing the Mixed Ecology
🌐 Dwight's Website: https://www.dwightzscheile.com/
📧 Blair's Email: blair.p@episcopalmn.org
🎧 Episodes Referenced: William Harrison
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Dwight Zscheile, Blair Pogue, Embracing the Mixed Ecology, mixed ecology church, fresh expressions, inherited church, church innovation, post-Christian ministry, discipleship formation, lay-led ministry, digital church, future of the church, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean to remain faithful to a calling when the church itself says no?
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic is joined by Rose Hudson‑Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, for a wide-ranging conversation rooted in her memoir, The Girl from Montego Bay.
Drawing on her journey from a childhood in Jamaica to episcopal leadership in the Church of England, Bishop Rose reflects on poverty, belonging, the discovery of God’s love, and the clarity of call that sustained her through repeated rejection. She speaks candidly about racism in the church, the pressure of being “the first,” and the cost of leadership when institutions lag behind the Spirit.
The conversation also explores motherhood and ministry, Scripture as a lived practice, faith in public life, and what Bishop Rose believes the church most urgently needs now: confident Christians who live their faith beyond the church door.
This episode offers pastoral wisdom and spiritual encouragement for anyone discerning vocation, navigating institutional resistance, or seeking a faith marked by courage, joy, and love.
Topics Include* Discerning a call without visible role models * Growing up poor without growing up diminished * Scripture as a source of belonging and confidence * Racism, representation, and leadership pressure * Motherhood and ministry as shared vocation * Why the church needs confident Christians now * Faith lived publicly, not defensively
The Rt Revd Rose Hudson-Wilkin, CD, MBE was born and raised in Jamaica before coming to the UK to study. Ordained to the priesthood in 1994, in 2007 she was appointed as a Chaplain to Her Late Majesty the Queen and in 2010, became the first female appointed to the position of the 79th Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons. In November 2019 she was consecrated as a Bishop in the Church of England and installed in Canterbury Cathedral. In May 2023, Bishop Rose was one of three female bishops to make history by playing a part in the coronation of King Charles lll. Her autobiography, ‘The Girl From Montego Bay’ was published in January 2025. Bishop Rose is in wide demand as a preacher and speaker undertaking engagements both nationally and internationally, as well as making regular appearances in the media.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Her Book: The Girl from Montego Bay
🌐 Facebook: Bishop of Dover
🎧 Audiobook: Listen for Free
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Bishop of Dover, Bishop in Canterbury, The Girl from Montego Bay, women in ministry, Black church leadership, calling and vocation, racism in the church, Church of England, confident Christians, faith and public life, memoir theology, Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic
What does it mean to lead faithfully when change is unavoidable—and grief is real?
In this episode, Loren is joined by Rev. Dr. Josh Hayden for a deeply honest conversation about remissioning churches and navigating loss. Drawing from his work with congregations across denominations—and from his own experience of profound personal grief—Josh reflects on what it means to embrace change that is rooted in love, sacrifice, and hope.
Rather than treating renewal as a technical fix, the conversation explores remissioning as a discipleship-centered process that requires dying to old versions of ourselves so new life can emerge. Together, Loren and Josh wrestle with fear, resistance to change, the pace of transformation, and why churches often avoid the very practices that form people to live faithfully through loss.
Josh Hayden is the cofounder and copresident of Iwa Collaborative, which helps leaders fly high and and live low as they lead through change processes in their community. He runs remissioning trainings throughIwa Collaborative across various denominational, non-denominational, and global networks. Hayden is the senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Ashland, Virginia. He has worked and led in nonprofit organizations, church plants, and established churches. He has a doctorate in leadership and organizational change from Duke Divinity School and is the author of Sacred Hope. He serves on the boards of numerous nonprofits, and he and his family live near Richmond, Virginia.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His Book: Remissioning Church
🌐 Website: `Iwa Collaborative
🎧 Episode Referenced: Jack Shitama
🎧 Episode Referenced: Angela Gorrell
🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Root
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Josh Hayden, remissioning churches, church renewal, church change, leading through grief, discipleship and change, pastoral leadership, Edwin Friedman, family systems theory, cross before resurrection, church revitalization vs remissioning, grief and faith, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean to worship faithfully in a digital age when church participation is no longer limited to a physical room?
In this episode, Loren is joined by Michael Huerter to talk about hybrid church, online worship, and how technology is reshaping participation in Christian life. Drawing from Michael’s experience in worship leadership and digital ministry, the conversation explores how the pandemic accelerated changes already underway and why worship has always involved mediation and technology. Loren and Michael discuss common assumptions about online participation, the pressure placed on worship leaders to produce spiritual experiences, and how hybrid models can expand access without reducing worship to consumption. Rather than treating digital worship as a temporary solution or a threat to embodiment, the episode examines how churches can think more carefully about participation, formation, and accessibility in a hybrid context.
Topics include:
- What “hybrid church” actually means
- Why worship has always been mediated
- Assumptions about online participation
- Pressure on worship leaders to perform
- Hybrid worship and accessibility
This episode is a practical conversation for pastors, worship leaders, and church leaders navigating worship in a digital and hybrid age.
Michael Huerter (PhD, Baylor University) is a pastor at Holmeswood Baptist Church in Kansas City, Missouri, where he leads worship and works to build community and connection. As a lifelong church musician and digital native, he is interested in engaging with and contributing to scholarship that bridges the gap between research and practical ministry.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His Book: The Hybrid Congregation
🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable
🎧 Episode Referenced: Andrew Draper
🎧 Episode Referenced: David Taylor
🎧 Episode Referenced: The Pressure to Perform
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Hybrid church, hybrid worship, online worship, digital church, worship technology, mediated worship, worship leadership, participation in worship, embodiment and accessibility, church after COVID, future of worship, Michael Huerter, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What does it mean for a church to thrive when membership is declining, resources feel scarce, and the future is uncertain?
In this episode, Loren is joined by Kory Wilcoxson and Erin Cash to talk about their book, Thriving Church: What We Can Learn from Faithful Congregations, and the real-world practices of congregations navigating change with courage and clarity.
Drawing from years of congregational research and ministry experience, the conversation explores how churches can remain faithful to their calling without being governed by fear, metrics, or nostalgia. Kory and Erin reflect on the importance of grounding ministry in Scripture, revisiting mission and vision regularly, and honoring the past without being constrained by it.
Rather than equating thriving with growth, the episode makes a case for faithfulness, imagination, and adaptability—especially in mainline Protestant contexts where decline is often assumed to be the whole story.
Topics include:
- Why thriving is not the same as numerical growth
- How fear distorts mission—and how clarity restores it
- What it looks like for a church to be both “dying” and thriving
- Honoring history without letting it become a barrier to change
- Why Scripture still matters deeply for faithful congregations
This episode is a grounded, hopeful conversation for pastors and church leaders discerning how to lead well in seasons of transition.
Rev. Dr. Kory Wilcoxson has served as the Senior Pastor of Crestwood Christian Church in Lexington, Ky., since 2009. Prior to moving to Lexington, he served for twelve years as a pastor in the Chicago and Indianapolis areas. Wilcoxson holds degrees from Indiana University ((BA in Speech Communication), Ohio University (MA in Interpersonal Communication), Christian Theological Seminary (Master of Divinity), and Lexington Theological Seminary (Doctor of Divinity). Wilcoxson has served in a number of leadership positions within the Kentucky Region and Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination, including moderator of the Kentucky Regional Board, chair of the Board of Directors for the Council on Christian Unity (now the Christian Unity and Interfaith Ministry), and member of the Board of Directors for Disciples Home Missions. Wilcoxson is also the executive director of Compassionate Lexington, an organization which seeks to promote the core value of compassion through concrete action. Wilcoxson has two adult daughters: Sydney and Molly. He enjoys reading, running, and rooting on his beloved Cincinnati Reds.
Erin Cash is the Project Director for the Thriving Congregations Project at Lexington Theological Seminary. Prior to this role, Erin served as Director of Admissions at LTS for over 8 years. She is a graduate of Greenville University in Greenville, IL, Candler School of Theology at Emory University in Atlanta, GA, and Lexington Theological Seminary in Lexington, KY. Ordained in 2006, Erin enjoys the opportunities she has to serve in pulpit supply, guest lectures, and as a lay leader in her own congregation. Erin has served as Moderator for the Christian Church In Kentucky, as co-chair of the Local Arrangements team for Regional Assembly, and as co-chair for the Local Arrangements Team of the General Assembly. She also serves as Kentucky’s representative to the General Board, chairing the General Assembly Planning Committee there. Erin is deeply passionate about the work of the local and the Regional church. She is co-author of the book Thriving Church: What You Can Learn from Faithful Congregations now available from Chalice Press. Erin is part of a clergy couple. Her husband, Chris, is the Senior Pastor at FCC Georgetown, having formerly served North Middletown Christian Church and Oxford Christian Church. She is mom to Ella, who is a Junior at Murray State University. In her free time, Erin enjoys baking, hiking, exploring the National Parks, baseball games, and any experience that involves a lake, pool, or the ocean.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Their Book: Thriving Church
🎧 Episode Referenced: DOC Roundtable
🎧 Episode Referenced: Dawn Weaks
🎧 Episode Referenced: Chad Brooks
Connect with Future Christian:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Kory Wilcoxson, Erin Cash, Thriving Church book, Thriving Congregations, mainline Protestant churches, church decline, faithful congregations, mission and vision, church leadership, pastoral leadership, Disciples of Christ, Lexington Theological Seminary, fear vs mission, Christian formation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
In this year-end episode, Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on leadership, vulnerability, and the pressures pastors are carrying into the new year.
They discuss how leaders navigate vulnerability in public roles, including the challenge of knowing what to share, what to hold privately, and how unresolved pain can unintentionally shape preaching and leadership. The conversation addresses the tension between honesty and responsibility, especially when leaders are still processing their own questions or struggles.
Loren and Martha also talk about spiritual practices that have become increasingly important to them, particularly shared prayer and the Daily Office as grounding rhythms amid institutional anxiety and uncertainty. They reflect on how decline, fatigue, and pressure to perform can distort leadership, and why steadiness and formation matter when outcomes are unclear.
Topics include:
- Vulnerability and disclosure in pastoral leadership
- The difference between honesty and oversharing
- Prayer and the Daily Office as stabilizing practices
- Institutional anxiety and leadership pressure
- Leading faithfully without clear outcomes
👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for ongoing conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Future Christian Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/futurechristianpod/
📱 Martha's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/martha_tatarnic/
📱 Loren's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/richmondljr/
🟧 Future Christian Substack: https://futurechristian.substack.com/
Supporting Sponsors:
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Dennis Sanders – Producer
SEO / Keywords
Loren Richmond Jr., Martha Tatarnic, church leadership, pastoral leadership, vulnerability in leadership, spiritual practices, Daily Office, prayer rhythms, Christian formation, ministry fatigue, church decline, institutional anxiety, faith and leadership, pastors and ministry leaders, Future Christian Podcast
What happens when deconstruction becomes an identity—and woundedness becomes a platform?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with pastor and writer Tara Beth Leach about the growing online ecosystem where deconstruction is monetized, anger is rewarded, and discipleship is often replaced by endless dismantling.
Tara Beth shares why she believes some deconstruction is necessary (especially as faith matures), but warns that deconstruction without reconstruction can become a spiral that forms people in cynicism rather than hope. She describes how churches can respond to cultural crises without becoming “statement churches,” why partisan politics becomes idolatrous, and how practices like liturgy and theology formation can subvert polarization and re-form the Christian imagination.
In this conversation, you’ll hear about:* Why online deconstruction and local church reality are often very different * The danger of mistaking deconstruction for discipleship * How algorithms reward outrage and shape Christian formation * Why Gen Z is often hungry for embodied, communal faith * Liturgy and slow formation as a pastoral response in a divided age * The difference between charisma and character—and what churches celebrate * Supporting women in ministry: why men often “call out” people who look like them * Tara Beth’s “G.R.E.A.T.” morning prayer practice and her book The Great Morning Revolution
Tara Beth Leach is a pastor, preacher of the Word, and writer. She speaks widely at conferences, retreats, and universities across the country on Women in Ministry, Church Leadership, and the call to be a Radiant Witness. She is the Senior Pastor at Good Shepherd Church in Naperville, IL and previously served at Christ Church in Oakbrook and as Senior Pastor of First Church of the Nazarene of Pasadena (”PazNaz”) in SoCal. She is a graduate of Olivet Nazarene University and Northern Theological Seminary and has authored three books, including Emboldened and Radiant Church. Tara Beth is the co-founder of Propel Ecclesia and is also the co-host of The Pastors Table podcast. She has two beautiful and rambunctious sons and has been married to the love of her life, Jeff, since 2006.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Find Tara online @TaraBethLeach
🟧 Tara's Substack: https://substack.com/@tarabethleach
🌐 Tara's Website: https://tarabethleach.com/
🎧 Tara's Podcast: The Pastors Table Podcast
📖 Tara's Book: The Great Morning Revolution
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
SEO / Keywords
Tara Beth Leach, deconstruction, discipleship, church hurt, Christian formation, Gen Z church, Christian nationalism, partisan politics idolatry, pastoral leadership, preaching in a divided age, liturgy, school of theology, Christian imagination, cancel culture, call-out culture, family systems theory, Jonathan Haidt Anxious Generation, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr.
What would happen if churches stopped talking about money with guilt, shame, or fear—and started talking about vision, impact, and opportunity instead?
In this episode, Loren interviews Jason Hanselman, Donor Relations Director and longtime pastor, missionary, church planter, and fundraiser. Jason shares why asking people for money is, surprisingly, one of his most deeply spiritual practices, and why churches must rethink the way they talk about giving if they want to cultivate generosity rather than anxiety.
Together they explore:
- Why asking for money can be a spiritual experience for donors and leaders
- How childhood experiences shape our money scripts
- Why guilt-based “money talks” cause people to disengage
- How nonprofits have shifted donor expectations—and why churches must catch up
- How to make giving personal, relational, and meaningful
- Why younger adults don’t lack commitment—they lack invitation and clarity
- How segmenting, storytelling, and vision casting can transform a giving culture
- Why many churches need to simplify their structures, clarify their mission, and make compelling asks
- How capital campaigns can tie internal needs to external impact
Jason offers honest, practical, field-tested wisdom for pastors, stewardship teams, and anyone responsible for raising money in a ministry context. If you want to cultivate a healthier, more joyful, more spiritually grounded approach to giving, this conversation will give you the tools to start.
Jason Hanselman currently serves as a Donor Relations Director with Mission Aviation Fellowship. His ministry experience spans more than 25 years. He has led in a variety of capacities in kingdom-building roles as a pastor, missionary, church planter and fundraiser. Jason was born and raised in Denver Colorado where he met his wife Mary - they’ve been married for 32 years. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in Ministry and a Master of Arts degree in Education. Jason’s goal is to partner with other Kingdom minded individuals and churches to raise enough resources to make it possible for them to fund their vision and increase their impact. Jason enjoys spending time with his family on hikes and in art museums. Jason and Mary raised their three children in Boise, Idaho: Naomi (25), Grace (23) and Solomon (20). When he has extra time, Jason is a portrait artist and an avid sports fan.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Jason's Website: https://fundyourvision.my.canva.site/
📧 Jason's Email: jasonfyv@gmail.com
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Sheryl Johnson
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: JJ Peterson
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
SEO / Keywords
church fundraising, generosity, stewardship campaign, donor relations, spiritual fundraising, money and faith, church giving, nonprofit fundraising strategies, Mission Aviation Fellowship, fundraising without guilt, money scripts, younger donors church, capital campaign ideas, storytelling for churches, Loren Richmond Jr, Future Christian Podcast
What does youth ministry look like when the world — and young people — are changing faster than ever?
In this in-person episode recorded at Broomfield United Methodist Church, host Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with longtime student ministries director Mike Orr to talk about faith formation, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, belonging, spiritual maturity, and what it really means to cultivate community in a post-Christian culture.
With warmth, honesty, and decades of ministry experience, Mike reflects on:
Highlights from the Conversation His early spiritual experiences and how actual transformation — not willpower — shaped his faith. * The surprising power of belonging-first ministry for Gen Z & Gen Alpha. * Why emotionally coercive youth ministry of the 90s left deep marks — and how churches can do better. * How to hold space for students with radically different political or cultural views. * Why youth ministry should never be about indoctrination, but about helping young people own and explore their faith. * How to handle deconstruction as a natural* part of spiritual growth. * The crisis facing young men — and how to model a healthier version of Christian masculinity. * Why the future of church isn't about producing spiritual “products,” but creating a context where real faith can flourish. * The essential role parents play in forming faith, whether they realize it or not. * His hope for Christianity: “Keep adding leaves to the table. There’s room for everyone.”
This is a rich, grounded conversation about what actually works in youth ministry today — and what kind of church the next generation is longing for.
Mike Orr has been a youth worker since the late 1990's, serving churches in Pennsylvania, Connecticut, California, and Colorado. He earned his MDiv from Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena, California. For over 10 years he has been the Director of Student Ministries at Broomfield United Methodist Church, located in the northern suburbs of Denver, CO. He lives with his wife and 3 dogs in Denver, CO. He has written zero books.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Mike's Church: Broomfield UMC
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Andrew Root
🎧 Podcast Episodes Referenced: Quiet Revival
🎧 Mike’s Podcast: Tapestry Talk
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Keywords / SEO Tagsyouth ministry, Gen Z faith, Gen Alpha spirituality, belonging in church, student ministries, Mike Orr Broomfield UMC, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr, deconstruction and faith, progressive youth ministry, family faith formation, modern youth ministry challenges, Charlie Kirk Christianity, masculinity and church, spiritual formation for teens, church and political identity, Christian nationalism youth, Wesleyan sanctification, teen mental health church
How can a historic church navigate a rapidly changing world without losing its soul?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic speaks with Archbishop Shane Parker, the newly elected Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada, about leading through transition, discernment, and hope for the church’s future.
Archbishop Parker shares the story of his unexpected election, reflecting on themes of surrender, vocation, and guiding change rather than being changed by circumstance. Together, they explore what it means to lead faithfully in a post-Christian context—one where the church no longer holds cultural prominence but still holds deep spiritual purpose.
They discuss:
- The evolving role of Christianity in Canadian society
- What it means to be “first among equals” in Anglican leadership
- The spiritual practice of personal prayer and community intercession
- Why some leaders are called to stay instead of move on
- The challenge of guiding change before it overtakes the church
- How to reimagine church structures for relevance and sustainability
- The importance of friendship, pastoral care, and gathered community in thriving congregations
- His hope that the future of Christianity will embody the courage, compassion, and justice of Christ
Parker offers both realism and hope: that the Anglican Church can rediscover its vitality by focusing on community, worship, and service — not nostalgia or institutional weight.
Archbishop Shane Parker was elected the 15th Primate of the Anglican Church of Canada on June 26, 2025, and installed on June 29, 2025, at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, Ontario. Prior to being elected Primate, he had served as the Bishop of the Anglican Diocese of Ottawa since 2020. Before that, he was dean of the Diocese of Ottawa and rector of Christ Church Cathedral for two decades. Born to Irish parents in Edmonton, Alberta, he grew up in western Canada. He worked as a labourer for several years before embarking on undergraduate and graduate studies in sociology at Carleton University. After working as a professional sociologist, he studied theology at Saint Paul University. He was ordained as a priest in 1987 in the Diocese of Ottawa, later serving as the diocesan archdeacon. Parker has an honorary doctorate from Saint Paul University, where he has served as a part-time professor of pastoral ministry and chairs its Anglican Studies Advisory Committee. A collection of his pastoral essays was published by Novalis in a book called Answering the Big Questions. He is a recipient of the Interfaith Ottawa Award, for devoted service to promoting interfaith dialogue and cooperation. Parker is married to Katherine Shadbolt, a lawyer specializing in family law and mediation. He has three adult children and three grandchildren. He is handy, enjoys physical work and is most comfortable in natural places.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 The Anglican Church of Canada: https://www.anglican.ca/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What do you do when life falls apart—and you have no idea what to do next?
In this heartfelt episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell, theologian, researcher, and author of Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do and Always On: The Gravity of Joy. Drawing from her own experience of profound grief and transformation, Angela shares how surrender, acceptance, and spiritual practices like meditation can open us to God’s presence—even in silence.
Together, they explore:
- The difference between grasping for control and living in surrender
- How to accept reality as it is without losing hope
- Why prayer isn’t preparation for action—it is action
- Learning from feelings as information, not final truth
- What it means to trust that nothing is wasted in God’s economy
- How pastors and church leaders can find peace and purpose amid decline or loss
- Why healing and joy are still possible, even after tragedy
Whether you’re navigating personal loss or leading through uncertainty in ministry, this conversation offers honesty, theological depth, and hard-won wisdom for finding grace when life doesn’t go according to plan.
Rev. Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell is a speaker, author, and consultant. She has taught at several schools including Yale and Baylor University. Media sources such as the New York Times, NPR, and the Washington Post have highlighted her research. Dr. Angela is the author of always on, The Gravity of Joy, and a new book, Braving Difficult Decisions: What to Do When You Don’t Know What to Do. She’d love to connect with you on Facebook or Instagram @angelagorrell
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Her website: https://www.angelagorrell.com/
📱 Her socials: @angelagorrell
📖 Her book: Braving Difficult Decisions
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Heather Thompson Day
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Martha Tatarnic
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Keywords / SEO TagsAngela Williams Gorrell, Braving Difficult Decisions, Always On The Gravity of Joy, Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr., Christian leadership, spiritual direction, surrender to God, prayer and healing, faith through suffering, meditation and Christian spirituality, grief and resilience, trauma and faith, pastoral care, nothing wasted in God’s economy, mainline church leadership, church decline and hope, progressive Christian spirituality
What does it mean to be the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in a world where shared language about faith, salvation, and community seems to be slipping away?
In this roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Martha Tatarnic is joined by Loren Richmond Jr., Dennis Sanders, and David Emery for a deep conversation on the past, present, and future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Together they wrestle with what “No Creed but Christ” means today—and how this historic movement can renew its theological identity in a rapidly changing culture.
This conversation explores:
- Why “No creed but Christ” was once revolutionary—and what it might mean now
- How Disciples’ emphasis on inclusion and open communion can recover deeper theological grounding
- The tension between progressive activism and theological clarity
- The role of preaching, formation, and leadership in shaping discipleship
- Why local churches—and not denominational structures—are key to renewal
- Signs of hope and new life emerging in Disciples congregations across North America
If you’ve ever wondered how denominations can stay rooted in the Gospel while adapting to modern realities, this episode offers an honest, hopeful look at faithful innovation and renewal in the mainline church.
Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible. Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.
David Emery is the Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian Church in Tulsa, OK. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill our mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple-marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Dennis' Church: https://fccsaintpaul.org/
🌐 David's Church: https://hacctulsa.org/
📖 Book Referenced: Thriving Church
🎧 Dennis Sanders Podcast: Church and Main
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What happens when the church you’ve loved becomes too small for the faith you’ve grown into?
Former Anglican priest Brian E. Pearson joins host Martha Tatarnic on the Future Christian Podcast to discuss his book Talking to the Trees: A Journey Into Soul and his evolving spirituality after nearly forty years in ordained ministry.
In this deeply honest conversation, Brian reflects on his transition from parish life to life on the edges—where faith, doubt, nature, and imagination meet. Together, he and Martha explore what it means to live faith large rather than small, to follow curiosity and courage beyond institutional boundaries, and to discover the sacred in unexpected places.
They talk about:
- Why the edges of faith are often where renewal begins
- The cost and gift of leaving the institutional church
- How nature, ritual, and imagination can nurture a living spirituality
- Storytelling as a pathway to truth and healing
- Courage, curiosity, and the call to live with openness instead of fear
Pearson’s journey invites pastors, seekers, and skeptics alike to consider: What if leaving the church isn’t an ending, but another way of following the Spirit into new life?
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://www.brianepearson.ca/
📖 His Book: Talking to Trees
🎧 His Podcast: The Mystic Cave
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it look like for a church’s budget, bylaws, and building to reflect the values of justice and faith?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Rev. Dr. Sheryl Johnson, theologian, ethicist, and author of Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life (Fortress Press, 2023). Together they explore how churches can move beyond good intentions to embody justice through everyday practices—especially around finance, fundraising, stewardship, and administration.
They discuss:
- Why church administration is theological, not just logistical
- How job postings and pay scales reveal a congregation’s real values
- The pitfalls of donor-centered fundraising and better alternatives
- Honest communication about money, failure, and hope
- How churches can make ethical decisions about property and buildings
- What it means to see the local church as a foretaste of God’s reign
Sheryl challenges pastors and leaders to re-imagine what “faithful stewardship” truly means in today’s world—where economic justice, transparency, and collaboration are essential for credible ministry.
Sheryl Johnson (she/her) is a settler on Ohlone land and was born in Treaty 1 Territory in what is colonially known as Winnipeg, Canada. She began teaching at Pacific Lutheran Theological Seminary in the fall of 2020, as she was defending her PhD in Theology and Ethics at Graduate Theological Union. Her dissertation focused on the intersections of social justice (racial, economic, gender, etc) and ecclesial practices (specifically stewardship, finance, and polity). A book based on her dissertation, Serving Money, Serving God: Aligning Radical Justice, Christian Practice, and Church Life, was published by Fortress Press in 2023. Sheryl is an ordained minister in the United Church of Canada, with dual standing in the United Church of Christ. Sheryl has served several congregations, campus ministries, ecumenical advocacy organizations (especially KAIROS: Canadian Ecumenical Justice Initiatives and the Student Christian Movement/World Student Christian Federation), and global church partners (specifically the National Council of Churches of the Philippines and People's Action Forum in Zambia), in addition to her academic work. She completed her M.Div and MPS degrees at Emmanuel College, University of Toronto and also completed a Certificate of Specialization in Theology and Ecology at the University of St. Michael's College during her theological studies. Sheryl is passionate about embodied, participatory, and critical pedagogies and supporting students to make connections between justice commitments and vocational practices.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://www.sheryljohnsonphd.com/
📖 Her Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506482965/Serving-Money-Serving-God
📖 Her Next Book: The Business of God
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Michelle Van Loon
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What’s worth keeping—and what needs to go—when it comes to modern evangelicalism?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. talks with author Michelle Van Loon, whose new book Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism’s Non-Essentials explores the story of evangelical faith from its post–World War II roots to today’s crisis of credibility.
Drawing from her own journey—from a secular Jewish upbringing to decades inside evangelical churches—Van Loon offers an unflinching yet hopeful look at the movement’s excesses, blind spots, and spiritual gifts worth preserving.
Together, Loren and Michelle unpack:
- The distinction between revival and revivalism—and why chasing emotional “mountaintop” moments misses the point.
- The long shadow of leaders like James Dobson and Bill Gothard, and how their influence shaped evangelical culture.
- The roots of authoritarianism and control in religious systems—and what healthy spiritual authority looks like.
- Why humility and listening matter more than programs or platforms.
- What it means to “downsize” faith while still holding on to Jesus.
Van Loon reminds listeners that faith is not about clinging to institutions but about rediscovering the way of Christ—one marked by honesty, empathy, and hope.
👉 Subscribe to the Future Christian Podcast for more honest conversations about leadership, theology, and the future of the church.
Michelle Van Loon’s writing is shaped by her deeply rooted faith in Christ, secular Jewish heritage, spiritual hunger, and storyteller’s sensibilities. She has been a regular contributor to Christianity Today magazine, and has articles at a number of other digital sites.. Her eight books include her newest, Downsizing: Letting Go of Evangelicalism's Nonessentials. You can learn more about her work at her website, michellevanloon.com or connect with her at her little corner of Substack, which is called Transforming Words.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: michellevanloon.com
📖 Her Book:: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884626/downsizing/
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Joelle Kidd
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller
🎧 Episodes Referenced: J. Michael Jordan
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Mike Cosper
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What unique challenges do women face in ministry leadership—and what gives them hope for the future of the church?
In this special roundtable episode of the Future Christian Podcast, host Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes a panel of seasoned clergy leaders: Rev. Tabatha Johnson (Disciples of Christ), The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyck (Anglican), Rev. Canon Katherine Morgan (Anglican), and Rev. Canon Martha Tatarnic (Anglican and Future Christian co-host).
Together, they share candid stories about their call to ministry, navigating representation and authority, the sacrifices women often make that men may not, and how mentors and allies have helped along the way. From maternity leave struggles to stereotypes about “what a minister should look like,” these leaders open up about both progress and persistent challenges for women in the church today.
Listeners will gain insights into:
- How women discern and embrace a call to ordained ministry.
- The “stained glass ceiling” and ongoing equity issues in church leadership.
- The importance of mentors, representation, and visible role models.
- How congregations respond differently to women clergy across traditions.
- What gives hope for the next generation of women entering ministry.
Whether you’re a pastor, church leader, or layperson passionate about equality in the church, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a vision for a more inclusive future.
Rev. Tabatha D. Johnson is a pastor in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She has served as a pastor and chaplain for over twenty years. She graduated from the University of Missouri-Kansas City and Central Baptist Theological Seminary and is co-editor and contributor to Still A Mother: Journeys Through Perinatal Bereavement (Judson Press.) a 2017 Gold Medal Winner in the Illumination Book Awards. She is currently the Senior Pastor at Shawnee Community Christian Church where she joyfully serves alongside people who love Jesus and one another. Tabatha’s greatest love, besides her family and her church, are coffee and starting home improvement projects in her home that someday, hopefully, she will finish. Tabatha lives with her spouse, Cory, and their children in the Kansas City Metro.
The Venerable Sheila Van Zandwyk is Archdeacon of Lincoln Deanery and Rector of Church of the Transfiguration. She was born and raised in St. Catharines and was raised in the Christian Reformed Church. She began attending an Anglican Church in my twenties. Until starting seminary at 40, Van Zandwyk worked in retail, for a number of years as the Manager of a Shoppers Drug Mart. Ordained for 17 years, Van Zandwyk has worked in churches in Oakville, Hamilton and now St. Catharines, being at Transfiguration for 6 years now.
The Reverend Canon Katherine Morgan graduated with a Master of Divinity from Trinity College, University of Toronto. Morgan is ordained in the Diocese of Niagara where she had the privilege of serving in rural, small town and city parishes for 29 years. Currently Morgan is the rector of Church of the Resurrection in Hamilton. In her free time, she loves to sing, enjoy puzzles, and is the proud parent of an adult son.
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://shawneecommunity.org/
🌐 Website:
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Margo Guernsey
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does ministry look like beyond the walls of traditional institutions? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Father Cathie Caimano—Episcopal priest, writer, coach, and founder of Free Range Priest. For nearly a decade, Caimano has been helping churches and leaders reimagine ministry for the 21st century, blending ancient practices with agile, entrepreneurial models. Caimano shares her own journey from traditional parish priest to “free range” ministry, reflecting on what she learned serving small churches, working alongside Bishop Michael Curry, and navigating the disruption of the COVID era. She makes a bold case for new containers of church—lean, sustainable, and faithful—while still deeply rooted in the gospel. Caimano insists that the church is not dying—the institution is. And in that collapse lies the opportunity to reimagine ministry with freedom, joy, and faithfulness.
Key points from the conversation:
- How spiritual practices can function like a “gym for your soul”
- Why institutions resist technology and why that must change
- The difference between innovation within old systems and creating new ones
- Why small congregations can thrive by embracing sustainability, not size
- How the church can learn from entrepreneurship, social enterprise, and start-up culture
Cathie Caimano, ʻFr. Cathie’, and is an Episcopal priest, ordained for 25 years. Since 2016, She's been a Free Range Priest - her own ministry/business with a mission to help reimagine ministry in the 21st century. She serves a small congregation in a 'cage free' way, and she writes, coaches, teaches and consults about practical ways of being and doing church in sustainable, faithful, joyful ways. She lives near Charlotte, NC with her wonderful husband and adorable Great Dane. When she's not thinking about God and church, you can find her taking photos of the sunrise, or out running somewhere!
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Website: https://trexo.church/p/start-here
🌐 Website: https://www.freerangepriest.org/about
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Chad Brooks
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Steve Cuss
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Matt Syrdal
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Bethany Peerbolte
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does leadership look like when the church is shrinking? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Dr. Bill Harrison, president of Lutheran Theological Seminary in Saskatoon and author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church. Harrison shares candid insights from his own journey—from growing up in a fundamentalist tradition to leading in ecumenical and academic contexts. He reflects on why complexity is not something to fear, why “do less with less” might be the most faithful strategy today, and how congregations can reclaim a gospel vision rooted in transformation rather than numbers. Realistic and hopeful, this episode offers practical tools for pastors, leaders, and congregations navigating decline as Harrison reminds that God’s transformation is complex, but the good news is alive and present—even in a shrinking church.
In this conversation you’ll hear:
- Why numerical growth has become an idol in many churches
- The crushing accumulation of roles and expectations placed on clergy
- Four dimensions of transformation—intellectual, psychic, moral, and religious—that shape Christian life
- Why congregations need to clarify identity, mission, and resources instead of trying to be “all things to all people”
- How gospel vision statements can help churches focus on what really matters
The Rev. Dr. William (Bill) Harrison is president of Lutheran Theological Seminary, Saskatoon, and former chair of the Saskatoon Theological Union Common Faculty. Bill teaches systematic and historical theology, and ethics. In addition to his PhD in systematic theology and church history from Boston College, Bill has degrees in English literature (M.A.), theology (B.Th.), and political science (B.A. Hons). Bill is the author of Leadership in a Shrinking Church: Finding New Vision in Unlikely Places; Frequently Asked Questions in Christian Theology; and In Praise of Mixed Religions: The Syncretism Solution in a Multifaith World. Everywhere he goes, Bill takes music with him, listening to a broad variety. At home, he spends as much time as possible walking trails or out in his kayak.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Get his Book: Leadership in a Shrinking Church
📱 Follow: https://www.facebook.com/bill.harrison.359128
🌐 Website: www.lutherantheological.ca
🌐 Website: https://www.facebook.com/LTSSaskatoon/
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Robert Schuller episode
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Free Range Priest Helping clergy and congregations reimagine ministry in the digital age.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it really mean for a church to be “healthy”? In this episode, Loren sits down with Chad Brooks—United Methodist congregational vitality strategist and author of Is My Church Healthy? Drawing on his years of experience as a church planter, pastor, and denominational leader, Brooks challenges common assumptions about growth and health. He unpacks why stability must come before vitality, how to measure what truly matters, and why small congregations often carry unique strengths that larger ones overlook. With both encouragement and practical tools, Brooks equips pastors, leaders, and laypeople to discern their next faithful step. Whether you lead a large church or a normal-sized one, this conversation will help you reimagine what vitality looks like in today’s context.
Key Points:
- Why size doesn’t determine health—and how small churches can thrive
- The four stages of congregational life: unstable, stable, vital, and sustainable
- How to right-size ministries instead of copying “the big church down the street”
- Why tracking data isn’t impersonal but essential to caring for people
- The difference between mercy, justice, mission, and evangelism—and why churches must reclaim their distinct call
- How COVID acted as a “reset button” for many congregations
Chad Brooks is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church and currently serves on the staff of The Louisiana Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church as the Congregational Vitality Strategist. He lives in central Louisiana with his wife of 20 years Meredith. Chad is a graduate of Louisiana Tech University and Asbury Theological Seminary. Chad grew up in the church as the son of an SBC Pastor and has spent his career working in all aspects of church, from Technical Production Director of churches and a major Seminary, to a pastor of established churches and church plants. He has stewarded the Productive Pastor Community for 20 years and it equally passionate about seeing revival as he is about resourcing Pastors in all aspects of healthy ministry. When not reading and thinking about the Church, he enjoys practicing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and being in the outdoors at his hunting camp.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Get his Book: Is My Church Healthy?
🌐 Louisiana Conference: https://www.la-umc.org/conferencestaff
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Dennis Sanders
🎧 Episodes Referenced: Drew Crowson
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
How do pastors and church leaders navigate ministry when the battles feel relentless? In this episode, Loren talks with Bishop Jeffrey V. Dudley Sr.—retired Air Force chaplain, pastor, and leadership coach. Drawing from his decades of service in the military and the church, Bishop Dudley shares candid reflections on leadership, spiritual practices, and the weight of ministry. He opens up about personal seasons of opposition, the temptation to over-spiritualize crises, and the vital importance of prayer, boundaries, and honest self-awareness. This conversation is a powerful reminder for pastors, leaders, and anyone in ministry that resilience is possible, that honesty matters, and that our hope remains anchored in Jesus.
Listeners will hear:
- Why “battles are inevitable, and preparation must be intentional”
- How to discern between authenticity and “bleeding on the people”
- The danger of over-spiritualizing crises—and how leaders can own responsibility
- Bishop Dudley’s vulnerable reflections on suicidal ideation and the hope that carried him through
- Why he insists, “You are not what you feel”
Dr. Geoffrey V. Dudley, Sr. is a retired Air Force Chaplain (Lt. Colonel), Bishop, author, and leadership coach. A lifelong minister and visionary leader, he holds a PhD in Organizational Leadership from Regent University, a Doctor of Ministry from Virginia Union University, a Master of Divinity from Virginia Union, a Master of Human Relations from the University of Oklahoma, and a Bachelor of Arts in Communication, Drama & Speech from UNC Greensboro. He also holds a Post-Master Education Specialist degree from the University of Memphis. Dr. Dudley is the founding pastor of New Life in Christ Church (O'Fallon, IL), one of the fastest-growing churches in the St. Louis metro area, and the CEO of New Life Community Development Corporation, which leads major community initiatives including a $20M affordable housing project. A John Maxwell Associate Trainer and author of six books—including Leading Through Storms—he also mentors leaders through iLeadAcademy.net and Changing Lives Ministries. He and his wife Glenda have two adult children engaged in ministry and nonprofit leadership.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 His Book: https://ivpress.com/leading-through-storms
🌐 His church website: https://www.nlicic.org
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to lead the church toward vitality in a time of disruption, decline, and shifting cultural landscapes? In this episode, Loren sits down with Dr. F. Douglas Powe Jr., President of Phillips Theological Seminary. Recorded live at the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), this conversation explores how seminaries and congregations alike can foster authentic belonging, support diverse pathways into ministry, and reimagine theological education for the future. Doug reflects on his first six months at Phillips, the seminary’s bold tuition initiative, and the vision behind Bedford House—a new space designed to embody belonging for marginalized and underrepresented communities. He also shares his hopes for how churches can model unity and reconciliation in a divided world.
Topics include:
- Why belonging must come before believing for new generations
- How Bedford House embodies Phillips Seminary’s commitment to inclusion
- The challenges and opportunities of rural and small-church ministry
- Alternative pathways into ministry beyond the traditional M.Div.
- Why theological education must adapt without losing its core formation
- The role of social justice engagement in calling new leaders
- Dr. Powe’s hopes for the church in an age of disruption and division
Rev. F. Douglas Powe Jr., PhD is President of Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, Okla., where he leads the seminary in its work toward deep learning, faithful leadership and global impact. An ordained elder in The United Methodist Church, Dr. Powe is a respected scholar, teacher, and author whose work explores congregational vitality, urban ministry, and innovative approaches to evangelism. Before leading Phillips, he served as Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. His books include Sustaining While Disrupting, The Adept Church, and Transforming Evangelism. A graduate of Ohio Wesleyan University, Emory University’s Candler School of Theology, and Emory’s Graduate Division of Religion, Dr. Powe is widely sought after for his insights on faith, leadership, and the changing ministry environment.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Book: https://www.cokesbury.com/The-Adept-Church?vsl=2487
📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506479200/Sustaining-While-Disrupting
🌐 Phillps Seminary: https://ptstulsa.edu/
🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: Sustaining While Disrupting
🎧 Past Episode with Doug Powe: The Adept Church
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to build safer, healthier churches in a world where abuse and misuse of power have left deep scars? In this conversation, Loren talks with Dr. Lisa Compton and Taylor Patterson, co-editors of Skills for Safeguarding: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Drawing on decades of counseling and trauma work, they explore how churches can recognize unhealthy dynamics, respond with integrity, and create cultures where both leaders and congregants can flourish. This is a vital conversation for pastors, lay leaders, and anyone who cares about the long-term health and witness of the church.
Topics include:
- Why integrity, not charisma, is essential for church leadership
- The difference between protecting a church’s brand and serving the people of God
- The “tripod of relational safety”: safe self, safe community, and safe ministry
- Distinguishing between guilt and shame, and how each shapes spiritual formation
- Why forgiveness does not always mean reconciliation
- Practical first steps churches can take toward safeguarding
Taylor Patterson is an instructor in the counseling department at Regent University. She worked for several years as a mental health counselor at a nonprofit agency serving survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and human trafficking and now sees clients in private practice, specializing in adult with a history of childhood trauma. She served as co-editor for "Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church,” a textbook for seminaries, parachurch ministries, and local churches, and has published in peer-reviewed journals. Taylor’s research interests include interpersonal violence, compassion fatigue prevention and treatment, and trauma-informed counselor education and supervision.
Dr. Lisa Compton is an Associate Professor and Director of the Ph.D. in Counselor Education program at Regent University. With over 29 years of experience in the mental health field, she is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW), certified trauma treatment specialist (CTTS), and compassion fatigue educator (CFE). Dr. Compton has been a conference keynote speaker, presented internationally on trauma-related topics, and has been featured on CBN News discussing domestic violence and sexual trauma. She is the co-author of Preparing for Trauma Work in Clinical Mental Health and Safeguarding Skills: A Guide to Preventing Abuse and Fostering Healing in the Church. Her research focuses on secondary trauma and trauma pedagogy with numerous published articles, including "Absorption Vulnerability" in Traumatology (2024).
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina
📖 Their book: https://www.ivpress.com/skills-for-safeguarding
🌐 Lisa's Website: https://drlisacompton.com/
🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack
🎧 Mike Cosper on the Dangers of Ideology in Church
🎧 May Young on Biblical Lament
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Recorded live from the 2025 General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Memphis, TN, Loren is joined once again by pastor and podcaster Dennis Sanders for a candid conversation about the state and future of the denomination. They reflect on what’s changed since past gatherings, the unique role and challenges of General Assembly in a time of declining attendance, and the ongoing tension between institutional loyalty and openness to diverse theological voices. From the missed opportunity of a revival resolution to the practical realities of costs, exhibitor layouts, and programming balance, Loren and Dennis bring both deep care and honest critique.
The conversation also moves beyond denominational borders—raising questions relevant to mainline and evangelical contexts alike:
- How should denominations engage in political advocacy when their cultural influence has waned?
- What would it take to be truly inclusive of conservative, moderate, and progressive voices?
- Where might revival come from—and how will we know it when we see it?
Dennis Sanders is an ordained Disciples of Christ minister and lead pastor of First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. A native of Flint, Michigan and big fan of the Detroit Tigers and Lions, Dennis is also a communications specialist for a Lutheran congregation in the Twin Cities and is the host of the Church and Main podcast, which tries to live out Karl Barth’s quote of reading the Bible and the newspaper and interpreting the news through the Bible. Dennis lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel and their cats.
Mentioned Resources:
🎧 Last GA Episode with Dennis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-fgenv-1476ff7
📱 Dennis instagram: @adventcelina
📖 Mixed Ecology Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/embracingthemixedecology
🌐 Ben Crosby's Substack: https://substack.com/@bencrosby
🌐 Jeff Gill's Substack: https://substack.com/@knapsack
🎧 Dennis Sanders: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-q2e35-134587d
🎧 Church and Main Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/church-and-main/id1660817140
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it take to start a brand-new church in one of the fastest-growing cities in the U.S.? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Drew Crowson, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of Dallas planting a church in Celina, Texas—a city where 800 new residents arrive every month and there’s never been an Episcopal congregation. Drew shares his journey from growing up Baptist in East Texas, to ministry roles in Germany, the Middle East, and Alabama, to finding a spiritual home in the Anglican tradition. He explains why he believes the parish model is the future of the church, how a preschool can be a vital ministry and funding source, and the discipline it takes to keep showing up—even when no one else does. Whether you’re in church leadership, thinking about starting something new, or just curious about what it takes to plant a church in today’s cultural climate, this conversation is both honest and inspiring.
They discuss:
- Why liturgy and the Book of Common Prayer resonate with non-liturgical Christians
- How to plant a church in a mainline denomination with little recent church-planting history
- Balancing entrepreneurial hustle with slow, patient spiritual formation
- The importance of pastoral boundaries for family health
- Building a prayer team and cultivating resilience in ministry
Drew Crowson is a church planter in the Episcopal Diocese of Dallas. Before stepping into church planting, he served in young adult and youth ministry in diverse contexts—from Dallas to Düsseldorf, Germany, an oil compound in the Middle East, and Auburn, Alabama. Deeply shaped by the early 2000s emergent church movement, his journey ultimately led him deeper into Jesus and into the Anglican tradition. Drew is married to an incredible woman, and together they are raising three young children who daily remind them of their ongoing need for grace.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Celina instagram: @adventcelina
🌐 Drew's Substack: https://substack.com/@andrewcrowson
🌐 WashPark UMC: https://www.washparkumc.org
Other Church planting episodes:
🎧 Cameron Trimble: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8siub-10d0a4d
🎧 Paula Stone Williams: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-pgxda-f59f19
🎧 Tim Morey: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-25zwi-1059d6d
🎧 Nick Warnes: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ketw5-1172f9e
🎧 Jonah Overton: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-y28bz-13457f4
🎧 Even More: https://www.podbean.com/ep/pb-wzbs7-173f5fc
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What happens when Christian faith gets filtered through purity rings, YA fiction, and pop-punk soundtracks? In this episode, co-host Martha Tatarnic welcomes writer and journalist Joelle Kidd to discuss her new book, Jesusland. Joelle shares her experiences growing up in a conservative Christian school and how the teachings she received influenced her understanding of faith, identity, and culture. This candid conversation explores the complexities of navigating a religious upbringing marked by purity culture, shame, and the impact of Christian pop culture on personal and political landscapes. Joelle reflects on the positives and negatives of her faith journey, the importance of self-ownership, and the need for a more inclusive and compassionate Christianity. Whether you were steeped in youth group culture or always felt on the outside looking in, this episode invites reflection on the messages that shaped us, and what kind of faith might lead us forward.
Topics Covered:
- What “Christian pop culture” really means and how it shaped Joelle’s youth
- The collision of capitalism, conservatism, and evangelical media
- How shame, purity culture, and literalist theology distort identity and faith
- The rise of Christian influencers, tradwives, and mega-pastor empires
- What the church can do differently—especially for young people today
Joelle Kidd is a writer, award-winning journalist, and editor who lives in a book-filled basement apartment in Tkaronto/Toronto. Her work has appeared in outlets such as The Walrus, This Magazine, Lit Hub, The Rumpus, and Xtra Magazine. She holds an MFA in creative writing from the University of Guelph. Jesusland is her first book.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/joellekidd.bsky.social).
🌐 Website: https://joellekidd.com/
🎧 Mike Cosper: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What can we learn about the future of the church by looking back at Robert Schuller? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with sociologists Gerardo Marti and Mark Mulder about their new biography, The Church Must Grow or Perish: Robert Schuller and the Business of American Christianity. Together, they explore how Schuller’s entrepreneurial vision, drive-in worship, and architectural grandeur helped shape the megachurch model—and why his story still matters today. This wide-ranging conversation dives into Schuller’s deep pastoral commitment, his embrace of American capitalism, and the unspoken ways his model of church innovation continues to influence today’s pastors. Loren, Gerardo, and Mark also reflect on what it means to lead faithfully in a culture defined by speed, spectacle, and constant change.
Topics Covered
- The rise and fall of Robert Schuller and the Crystal Cathedral
- Why Schuller’s legacy lives on in today’s church growth models
- How capitalism and faith became intertwined in modern ministry
- The unintended consequences of constant innovation
- Schuller’s surprising theological conservatism and deep pastoral care
- What “resonance” offers as a response to cultural acceleration
Mark T. Mulder is Professor of Sociology at Calvin University and director of the Common Good Collective. He is the author or co-author of five books In addition, Mulder has published numerous peer-reviewed articles in academic journals, including Social Problems, Religion and American Culture, and The Journal of Urban History. He has also published pieces for church audiences and won writing awards from the Evangelical Press Association and the Associated Church Press.
Gerardo Martí is William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of Sociology at Davidson College and president of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion. A prolific and award winning author, his research explores religious innovation and the role of religion in shaping patterns of racialization and political engagement in the United States. Bluesky @gerardomarti.bsky.social
Mentioned Resources:
🌐 Faculty Website: https://calvin.edu/people/mark-mulder
🌐 Faculty Website: https://www.davidson.edu/people/gerardo-marti
📖 Previous Book: https://www.rutgersuniversitypress.org/the-glass-church/9780813589060/
📖 The Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802878557/the-church-must-grow-or-perish/
🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/walking-into-sorrow-andrew-root-on-evangelism-in-the-age-of-despair/
🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/
🎧 Andrew Root: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does faith look like in the middle of life? In this special in-person episode of podcast, co-hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on the spiritual realities of middle age. Recorded together in St. Catharines, Ontario, they explore how faith changes through grief, caregiving, shifting theology, and the evolving nature of ministry. This deeply personal and thought-provoking conversation touches on everything from parenting and loss to theological mystery and sustaining joy in pastoral work. Loren and Martha offer hard-earned wisdom, honesty, and encouragement for anyone trying to live faithfully in the messy middle years of life and leadership.
Topics Covered
- The spiritual needs of middle age (and why churches often overlook them)
- How grief, caregiving, and loss shape our faith
- What sustains ministry over the long haul
- Changing theological priorities after seminary
- Parenting teenagers and modeling faith without coercion
- Embracing mystery, awe, and the Spirit’s leading
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Martha's Book: https://www.churchpublishing.org/whygather
📖 James Cone: https://orbisbooks.com/products/the-cross-and-the-lynching-tree
🎧 Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/walking-into-sorrow-andrew-root-on-evangelism-in-the-age-of-despair/
🎧 Arianna Molloy: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/healthy-calling-ariana-malloy-on-burnout-purpose-and-redefining-work/
🎧 Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/elizabeth-schrader-polczer-on-rethinking-mary-magdalene-part-1/
🎧 Suzanne Nadell: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/leading-with-grace-suzanne-nadell-on-navigating-faith-media-polarization/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if the most faithful act of evangelism isn’t preaching—but sitting with someone in their grief? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with theologian and returning guest Dr. Andrew Root to explore what it means to practice evangelism in an age defined by despair. Drawing from his latest book, Evangelism in the Age of Despair: Hope Beyond the Failed Promise of Happiness, Andy challenges the notion that evangelism is about strategy, persuasion, or growth—and instead reframes it as a practice of consolation. Together, Loren and Andy wrestle with the loneliness, sorrow, and disconnection of modern life. From Facebook Marketplace encounters to late-night hospital chaplaincy calls, this conversation dives deep into the spiritual significance of simply showing up and staying present with people in their suffering.
They discuss:
- Why sorrow is "contagious"—and why that matters
- The mystical, communal nature of consolation
- How pastors and chaplains might be better theologians than academics
- What happens when a society loses its rituals for goodbye
- Why people turn to the occult when meaning is missing
Whether you’re a ministry leader, chaplain, or spiritually curious, this episode will help you rethink what it means to offer hope in a world hungry for presence, not platitudes.
Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Book: https://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/evangelism-in-an-age-of-despair/423470
🌐 Website: https://www.andrewroot.org
🎧 Previous Episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/
🎧 Previous Episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
As seminaries face shrinking enrollments, rising costs, and shifting demographics, what models of theological education will carry the church forward? In this episode, Loren talks with Bekah Buchterkirchen, a writer, speaker, and former dean of students with nearly a decade in Christian higher education. Drawing from her experiences in seminary leadership—and as a seminary spouse—Bekah offers a thoughtful look at what’s working, what’s not, and what needs to change for theological education to stay relevant and form faithful leaders. Bekah also shares about her own spiritual rhythms as a mother and ministry partner, what she’d do if she were pope for a day, and why the legacy of Tim Keller continues to shape her hopes for the church.
Together they explore:
- The shift away from traditional seminary students to older, working adults
- The growing presence of women in seminary—and the challenges they still face
- Creative cohort-based and hybrid models that foster both learning and community
- The need for deeper church-seminary partnerships and real-time ministry formation
- Stackable certificates, lay education, and the future of non-traditional theological training
- Why poor digital presence is a turnoff—and how seminaries can adapt
Bekah Buchterkirchen is a writer, speaker, and creative collaborator passionate about cultivating joy and faith in every season. With nearly a decade in Christian higher education and ministry alongside her pastor-husband, she seeks to create spaces where curiosity, hospitality, and the love of Jesus meet. She lives in the Pacific Northwest with their two, almost three, young kids and writes to encourage moms in the trenches of motherhood to seek the Lord daily—even when they feel like it's not enough.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow @bekahbuck
🌐 Website: https://www.bekahbuck.com
🎧 Arianna Malloy: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-gb5yr-18a44c5
🎧 John Hawthorne: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-zgqq8-18c307a
🎧 Ulysses Allen: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-iumm4-1502da4
🎧 Ted Smith: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4nrb-15d747b
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if the path to hope isn’t found in overcoming pain, but in naming it? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. speaks with Dr. May Young, Associate Professor of Biblical Studies at Taylor University and author of Walking with God Through the Valley: Recovering the Purpose of Biblical Lament. Together, they explore why lament—too often overlooked in modern Christianity—is not just a personal cry, but a prophetic act of faith. Dr. Young vulnerably shares from her own experience of heartbreak and disorientation, and how discovering the biblical practice of lament became a turning point in her spiritual life. From the Psalms to the prophets, she explains how lament gives believers a faithful way to grieve, resist injustice, and grow in spiritual resilience—even when nothing changes.
Topics explored:
- Why biblical lament is more than venting—it's rooted in God’s character and promises
- How lament helps churches stand with the suffering and resist apathy
- Why modern worship often skips lament, and why that’s a problem
- How unprocessed pain from the COVID era may still be shaping us
- The difference between stoic acceptance and faithful sorrow
- What it means to trust God when healing or justice may not come on our timeline
May Young (PhD, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School) is associate professor of biblical studies and chairs the Department of Biblical Studies, Christian Ministries, Intercultural Studies, and Philosophy at Taylor University. She has contributed to several volumes focused on lament, including Reading the Psalms Theologically (Lexham) and World Christianity and COVID-19: Discourses and Perspective (Routledge). She is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and the Society of Biblical Literature and serves on the board of directors of the Institute of Biblical Research, as well as the editorial board for Sacred Roots.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 May Young's book: https://www.ivpress.com/walking-with-god-through-the-valley
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What happens when a group of women dare to follow their calling—despite being told they can’t?
In this compelling episode, Martha Tatarnic speaks with documentary filmmaker Margo Guernsey about her powerful film The Philadelphia Eleven, which tells the story of the first women ordained as Episcopal priests in 1974. Margo reflects on her own evolving faith journey, the deep spiritual nature of storytelling, and how this film reignited her connection with church and community. They discuss the courage and solidarity required to challenge institutional injustice, the cost of following one's calling, and why this story of ecclesiastical disobedience remains incredibly timely today. Whether you’re in ministry or simply seeking inspiration to live more truthfully, this conversation reminds us why history matters—and how faith and justice must always walk hand in hand.
Topics Covered:* Margo’s journey from UCC upbringing to filmmaking as spiritual practice * The groundbreaking ordination of the Philadelphia Eleven * Why solidarity, trust, and long-term relationship-building matter * The cost of truth-telling and challenging church hierarchy * Representation, visibility, and the power of embodied leadership * The importance of storytelling in shaping faith and future * How churches can resist silence and engage with courage * Hosting a screening and engaging your community with the film
Margo Guernsey (she/her) is a documentary Director/Producer, impact strategist, and founder of Time Travel Productions LLC. Her films include Councilwoman (America ReFramed 2019), No Time To Fail (America Reframed 2023), The Philadelphia Eleven (impact distribution 2023 - 2024 topping 500 screenings, American Public Television 2025), and THE OFFICIALS (TIME Studios, 2024). Prior to film, Margo worked as a union organizer, non-profit development director, and Spanish/English translator. Margo’s work has received support from Chicken & Egg Pictures, ITVS, Catapult Film Fund, GoodPitch, Perspective Fund, Ford Foundation, Surdna Foundation, and LEF Moving Image Fund among others; and she was a Film Independent Fast Track Fellow. She speaks both Spanish and English and holds an MFA in Film (University of Miami), an MA in History (UMass Amherst), and a BA in History (Brown University). Margo teaches producing as affiliated faculty at Emerson College and is a member of the Documentary Producers Alliance and Global Impact Producers Alliance.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Book recommendation: Song in a Weary Throat by Rev. Dr. Pauli Murray
🌐 No Time to Fail and The Officials (Margo's films on election workers)
🌐 The Philadelphia Eleven film website
🌐 Time Travel Productions
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Raymond Chang—pastor, writer, and Executive Director of the TENx10 Collaboration at Fuller Seminary. As co-author of Future Focused Church, Raymond shares a hopeful, grounded vision for how churches can embrace change, cultivate culture, and lead the next generation with clarity and purpose. Drawing from his experience in campus ministry, global missions, and as the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, Raymond offers practical wisdom on how to engage young people, make faithful decisions, and ground all change efforts in deep discipleship. The conversation touches on everything from listening well to those who resist, to why the worship service is often the worst place to initiate change.
Key Themes:* Why the future of the church is still bright * Spiritual postures vs. spiritual practices * The long, faithful work of building congregational imagination * Creating culture change, not just cosmetic change * Empowering transformation teams * Leading with listening and honoring those who resist * Why everything should be grounded in discipleship * How to manage hard decisions with grace * The danger of political syncretism in the church
Raymond Chang is the executive director of the TENx10 Collaboration (part of Fuller Seminary), which is a collaborative movement that is geared toward reaching ten million young people over ten years with the gospel. He is also the president of the Asian American Christian Collaborative, a pastor, and a writer. Prior to his role at Fuller, Raymond served as the associate chaplain for discipleship at Wheaton College. He has worked in the for-profit and nonprofit sectors and served in the Peace Corps in Panama. He and his wife, Jessica Min Chang, are proud parents of Sophia, and they reside in Chicago.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow @raychang502
📖 Book: FutureFocusedChurch.com
🌐 TENx10.org: https://www.tenx10.org/
🌐 Asian American Christian Collaboration: https://asianamericanchristiancollaborative.com/
🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
How can the church learn from the newsroom? In this episode, Loren welcomes veteran journalist and media executive Suzanne Nadell to explore what faith leaders can gain from the world of communications. Drawing from her decades of experience in newsrooms across the country, Suzanne reflects on her own faith journey as a preacher’s kid, the challenge of navigating polarization, and how churches can better engage their communities by leading with grace, truth, and thoughtful storytelling. Suzanne shares lessons from her book Wired to Lead, discusses the importance of creating inclusive tables in church spaces, and reveals how spiritual practices like Sabbath and attentiveness to the Holy Spirit have shaped her in both professional and personal life. Whether you're a pastor, lay leader, or simply curious about the overlap between faith and media, this episode offers rich insights on leading well in divided times.
Topics Covered:* Suzanne’s faith story as a preacher’s kid who found her own faith in adulthood * Lessons from the newsroom that church leaders should embrace * Why churches must get out of their cultural bubbles * Communicating hard truths with kindness * How Sabbath is an act of trust in God * Building healthier boundaries in a 24/7 world * Tips for better communication and storytelling in church * Why Suzanne finds inspiration in Priscilla and other overlooked women in scripture * Her hope for a less politically divided and more community-rooted church
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Her book: Wired to Lead
🌐 Suzanne's Website: https://suzannenadell.com/
🌐 She Leads Church: https://www.sheleadschurch.com/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if Christian colleges—and churches—stopped being driven by fear?
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren sits down (literally, in person) with sociologist and Substack writer John Hawthorne to talk about his new book The Fearless Christian University. Drawing on nearly four decades in Christian higher education, John outlines why so many institutions have slipped into what Andy Crouch calls "zombie mode"—defined more by inertia than imagination. This conversation moves fluidly between Christian universities and local churches, asking critical questions about sustainability, fear-based culture wars, institutional loyalty, and what it looks like to center the real questions of a rising generation.
Together, John and Loren explore:
- Why Christian institutions often default to fear and control
- What it means to be a “zombie institution”—and how to wake up
- How schools and churches can move from protecting tradition to cultivating belonging
- The importance of legitimizing doubt and centering student (or congregant) questions
- Whether it's possible to hold onto theological identity without gatekeeping
- How online church and online education can erode or support community
- Why belonging may need to come before belief
John Hawthorne is a sociologist who spent nearly four decades in Christian higher education. He served as faculty member and academic administrator over the course of his career, spending time in five different Christian universities. He writes a Substack that often deals with issues in Christian higher education and has been regularly interviewed for Christianity Today, Religion News Service, Sojourners, Inside Higher Ed, and the Associated Press. His publications include A First Step into a Much Larger World: The Christian University and Beyond.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow https://bsky.app/profile/jwhawthorne.bsky.social
📖 Book: https://www.eerdmans.com/9780802884565/the-fearless-christian-university/
🌐 John's Substack: https://substack.com/@johnhawthorne
🎧 Jeff Keuss: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-8wu23-1703189
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Can your church pay the bills and follow God’s call with integrity? In this episode, Loren talks with stewardship educator and sustainability strategist Grace Duddy Pomroy about how churches can embrace bold, faithful financial models without compromising their mission. Grace offers insights drawn from her national research and latest book on reimagining how churches fund ministry—from sliding-scale rentals to community-rooted partnerships.
Topics Explored:
- Why your mission must come before your money
- The spiritual practices that sustain long-term financial change
- How to rethink rent, real costs, and what generosity really looks like
- Why churches need to grieve the past to make room for the future
- A six-part “rocket ship” model for launching sustainable ideas
- The myth of quick fixes—and the value of faithful experimentation
Grace Duddy Pomroy is the Director of the Stewardship Leaders Program at Luther Seminary. She’s a lay, millennial stewardship leader, speaker, and financial educator based in Allyn, WA. She is the co-author of the stewardship book, Embracing Stewardship: How to Put Stewardship at the Heart of Your Congregation’s Life, as well as author of the free 2013 ELCA stewardship resource, “Stewards of God’s Love.” Her latest book, Funding Forward: A Pathway to More Sustainable Models for Ministry, was just released September 2024. Grace is also a consultant with Relèven, a charitable organization that lovingly preserves, restores, and repurposes under-utilized churches into community hubs and affordable housing.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow https://www.instagram.com/gracepomroy/ on Instagram
📖 Book: https://www.fortresspress.com/store/product/9781506493336/Funding-Forward
🌐 Funding Forward: https://faithlead.org/funding-forward
🌐 Releven: https://releven.org/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/
🎧 Jessica Dominguez: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jessica-dominguez-on-mobilizing-churches-for-affordable-housing/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if your church property wasn’t a burden—but a blessing to your neighbors? In this episode, Loren talks with John Cleghorn about the growing movement of churches reimagining their buildings and land to address the affordable housing crisis. Drawing from firsthand experience and national trends, John explores how faith communities can embrace a new missional identity rooted in service, hospitality, and justice. Whether you’re a pastor, denominational leader, or simply wondering what’s next for the American church, this conversation offers both challenge and hope.
This episode includes:
- How churches are transforming unused space into affordable housing
- The pastoral challenge of helping congregations grieve old models while embracing new vision
- Why engaging neighbors is essential before development
- The tension between mission and monetization
- What it means to be a church after Christendom—and why that might be good news
John Cleghorn became pastor of Caldwell Presbyterian in 2008 after 25 years in banking and journalism. He has served Caldwell as it rebounded from almost closing to become a vibrant, diverse, mission-driven congregation centered on the love and justice of Jesus Christ. His latest book, Building Belonging: The Church’s Call to Create Community and House Our Neighbors, springs from his congregation’s experience and his national research into the emerging movement of faith-based organizations building affordable housing on their property. Building Belonging blends theology and Bible study with case studies and lessons learned From the movement. A native of Atlanta, he has lived in Charlotte since 1986 and has served on a wide array of non-profit agency boards in the religious and human services fields at the local and national levels. He is currently a board member of WFAE. He is married to Kelly, a kindergarten teacher, and has two adult children. He holds a Doctorate in Ministry from Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, a Master of Divinity from Union Presbyterian Seminary and a Bachelor of Arts from Washington and Lee University. His first book, Resurrecting Church: Where Justice and Diversity Meet Radical Welcome and Healing Hope (Fortress Press), came out in 2020.
Mentioned Resources:
📖 Book: https://www.wjkbooks.com/Products/0664268501/building-belonging.aspx
🌐 Caldwell Presbyterian: https://www.caldwellpresby.org/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/eldson/
🎧 Mark Elsdon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if burnout isn’t the end of your calling—but an invitation to reimagine it? In this episode, Loren talks with Dr. Arianna Molloy, author of Healthy Calling: From Toxic Burnout to Sustainable Work, about how our deepest exhaustion can reveal what matters most. Drawing from her own journey and years of research, Arianna offers insight for leaders, pastors, and anyone navigating seasons of vocational confusion, overwork, or transition. together, they explore how calling can be both sacred and slippery, why shame is often tied to burnout, and how to reclaim your purpose without clinging to a title.
This episode includes:
- The difference between a healthy calling and toxic burnout
- Why our job titles aren’t our true identity
- What to do when you feel vocationally lost
- How rest and reflection help realign our sense of purpose
- Tools for reframing shame and rediscovering joy in your work
Arianna Molloy (PhD, University of Denver) is associate professor of organizational communication at Biola University. Her research focuses on meaningful work, work as a calling, and the connection between humility and burnout in the workplace. She is an award-winning scholar and educator who has published in the International Journal of Business Communication, Communication Studies, and Christianity Today. Arianna is also a consultant for organizations, business professionals, and ministries. Arianna and her husband, Allen, have one son and enjoy running half marathons, traveling the world, and drinking good coffee.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianna-molloy-ph-d-168969246/
🌐 Arianna's website: ariannamolloy.com.
🎧 Past episode: Pastoral Health Roundtable Episode
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What happens when your most meaningful ministry happens through a smartphone screen? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Bethany Peerbolte—a self-described “TikTok Pastor” and the founding leader of Our Tapestry, a fully digital church community. With over 280,000 followers online, Bethany creates content that helps people declutter harmful theology, reimagine faith, and reconnect with a God of radical love—especially in places she calls “theological deserts.” She shares how a few youth group questions during the pandemic launched her into full-time digital ministry, why she prefers “decluttering” over “deconstruction,” and how online spaces can offer real spiritual care and community. From spiritual practices to algorithms, from internet trolls to worship on Discord, Bethany reveals the joys and challenges of doing church in a platform-driven world.
Topics Covered:
- How TikTok launched a movement of digital pastoral care
- What “decluttering faith” looks like in practice
- The role of dreams, labyrinths, and curiosity in spiritual growth
- Navigating social media algorithms and resisting rage-bait
- The promise and peril of building sacred spaces online
- Why progressive Christians need to speak louder online
Rev. Bethany Peerbolte is the founding pastor of Our Tapestry. This community meets entirely in digital spaces and gathers to declutter faith from abusive theology. She also creates Christian content on TikTok seeking to meet younger generations where they scroll. The stories Rev. Bethany hears from her 286,000+ followers about how churches have treated them inspires her ministry. “The zip code someone lives in should not decide what kind of God they know. Everyone deserves access to the radical love of God.” You can follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube and learn more at OurTapestry.Online.
Mentioned Resources:
📱 Follow @RevBethany on TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube
🌐 Learn more or join the community at rev-bethany.com
🎧 Past episode: Ted Smith:
🎧 Past episode: Elesha Coffman:
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Is progressive Christianity losing its soul by abandoning church, worship, and leadership? In this episode, Loren talks with Pastor Clint Schneckloth to explore why faith communities, worship, and theological grounding still matter in progressive spaces. Clint pushes back against the tendency to dismiss church as irrelevant or harmful, offering a vision for how ethical leadership, communal worship, and rooted faith can empower justice work rather than distract from it. He also introduces place-sharing as a model for mission and evangelism, showing how churches can engage their neighbors without compromising progressive values—or their faith commitments.
In this episode, you'll hear:
- Why Clint wrote about Progressive Church instead of Progressive Christianity
- How worship fuels justice, rather than distracting from it
- The danger of abandoning theological foundations for the sake of inclusivity
- Reclaiming leadership: Ethical authority in progressive communities
- Place-sharing: A relational approach to mission and evangelism
Clint Schnekloth is pastor of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Fayetteville, Arkansas, a progressive church in the South. He is the founder of Canopy NWA (a refugee resettlement agency) and Queer Camp, and is the author of A Guidebook to Progressive Church. He blogs as Lutheran Confessions at Substack.
Mentioned Resources:
📚 A Guidebook to Progressive Church by Clint Schneckloth
✍️ Follow on Substack: Lutheran Confessions https://clintschnekloth.substack.com/
🌐 Good Shepherd Lutheran Church: https://www.goodshepherdnwa.org/staff/
🏳️🌈 Canopy NWA & Queer Camp: http://www.canopynwa.org/welcome
🍲 Mutual Aid Partner: Food Not Bombs https://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode of the Future Christian podcast, hosts Martha and Loren engage in a personal check-in, discussing Loren's vocational transitions and the challenges of navigating ministry outside traditional roles. They then delve into the current state of Canada-US relations, exploring the emotional and economic implications of a perceived trade war. The conversation highlights the cultural identity of Canadians and the growing sense of national pride amidst external pressures, emphasizing the importance of recognizing diverse forms of ministry and leadership in a changing landscape. In this conversation, Martha and Loren explore the role of progressive Christianity in addressing contemporary political issues, the importance of empathy and mercy in sermons, and the challenges of navigating political sensitivities within congregations. They discuss the significance of music in fostering community and healing, the need for courage in leadership, and the importance of finding common ground across political divides. The conversation concludes with personal reflections on coping strategies and a shared prayer for unity and guidance.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to be the church in anxious, divided times? Recorded in connection with the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference at Phillips Seminary, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Rev. Dr. Susan Diamond to explore how local congregations can become spaces of healing, clarity, and radical welcome. Drawing from her work with moral injury, healing circles, and the Soul Repair After Moral Injury podcast (co-hosted with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock), Susan shares how churches can recover the spiritual practices that root us in love, courage, and compassion. From forming faith through daily practices to fostering political and theological diversity under a shared mission, she offers a powerful testimony of what it means to be the church for this moment.
In this episode, you'll hear:
- What moral injury is and how it shows up in church, healthcare, and society
- How healing circles are transforming congregations from the inside out
- Why forming faith is essential before welcoming or serving others
- How to foster unity across political differences through mission clarity
- The role of spiritual direction and communal lament in healing
- A hopeful vision for the future of Christianity and leadership
Rev. Dr. Susan Ward Diamond is the Lead Pastor of Florence Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Florence, Kentucky, where she has served since 2015. Susan received her Bachelor of Arts degree from Texas Christian University, a Master of Divinity degree from Brite Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in Dayton, Ohio. Dr. Diamond has invested herself in ministry and mission through local, regional and general expressions of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada, throughout her 33 years of ordained ministry. She has served on the regional boards of the Florida and Alabama-Northwest Florida regions, directed numerous youth camps and conferences, and served as a keynote speaker of retreats and assemblies around the country. She has served her denomination as First Vice Moderator for the 2011-2013 biennium of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. During her sabbatical in 2021, Dr. Diamond and Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock collaborated on a pastoral study grant funded by the Louisville Institute entitled Moral Injury: A Catalyst for Reform. Following the study period, they have continued their work together to offer strategies to faith communities for providing support and healing for those suffering from moral distress and moral injury. They have recently launched the podcast Soul Repair: After Moral Injury. Susan and Rita are currently writing a book which they hope to publish soon.
Mentioned Resources:
🎙️ Rita Nakashima Brock's episode on Future Christian: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vjamb-1871d36
🎙️ Soul Repair After Moral Injury Podcast (on all major platforms)
🌐 Florence Christian Church: florencechristian.org
📚 Coming Soon: A book on moral injury in the church (by Susan Diamond & Rita Nakashima Brock)
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if the church was never meant to be a waiting room for heaven—but a community that builds paradise now? Recorded live at Phillips Seminary during the 2025 Remind & Renew Conference, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Dr. Rita Nakashima Brock to reflect on the decline of religious institutions, the collapse of reliable media, and how early Christian communities cultivated paradise on earth—not just in theory, but through shared meals, practices, and mutual care. Drawing on her groundbreaking book Saving Paradise, Brock calls for a return to rituals that ground us in community, memory, and moral accountability.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
- The origins and impact of moral injury in war and church settings
- Why wisdom cannot grow in isolation—and how loneliness undermines it
- The role of ritual in forming resilient, embodied communities of faith
- Early Christianity’s focus on paradise in the here and now
- What Protestantism lost when it rejected communal, repetitive ritual
- A powerful critique of institutional silence, spiritual abuse, and the theology of “waiting for heaven”
- How the Eucharist once fed thousands—and why we need that vision again
Rita Nakashima Brock, Ph.D., has been Senior Vice President for Moral Injury Recovery Programs at Volunteers of America since 2017. An award-winning author, she is co-author of Saving Paradise: How Christianity Traded Love of This World for Crucifixion and Empire (2008). She held the Endowed Chair in the Humanities at Hamline University 1990-1997, then became Director of the Fellowship Program at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study at Harvard University. From 2001-2002 she was a fellow at the Center for Values in Public Life at Harvard Divinity School. She co-founded the Soul Repair Center at Brite Divinity School in 2012 and directed it until 2017.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if bivocational ministry isn’t a compromise—but a key to the church’s future? Kris Bentley joins Loren Richmond Jr. to explore the evolving landscape of bivocational ministry in today’s church. Drawing on insights from her book Bivocational Ministry: Field Notes for Congregations and Ministers, Kris shares stories from over a decade of research and interviews with pastors and churches engaged in bivocational models. They unpack misconceptions around part-time and bivocational leadership, the surprising benefits of realigned congregational relationships, and how small churches can thrive with the resources they already have. Kris also offers thoughtful guidance for pastors navigating dual roles, denominations rethinking support structures, and seminaries designing education for a changing ministry future.
In this episode, you'll learn:
- Why bivocational ministry is more than a financial necessity—and may be the future of pastoral leadership
- How redefining expectations can empower lay leaders and revitalize small congregations
- The difference between part-time, bivocational, and multivocational ministry models
- Practical tools for pastors and churches navigating role clarity and boundary-setting
- How seminaries and denominations can better support pastors in flexible ministry pathways
Rev. Dr. Kristen Bentley is an ordained minister with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). She has served in congregational ministry in the central Kentucky area for more than twenty years, sometimes in the role of a bivocational pastor. Prior to attending seminary, she worked in higher education administration, serving at both Midway College (now Midway University) and the University of Kentucky. Since 2014 Kris has been working at Lexington Theological Seminary (LTS), beginning when LTS was awarded a grant by Lilly Endowment Inc. as part of its Economic Challenges Facing Future Ministers (ECFFM). She was hired to direct the grant project and as part of that work, Kris initiated research at LTS regarding bivocational ministry. The research concerning bivocational ministry has been supported at LTS through grants from Lilly Endowment Inc., including both Lilly’s ECFFM Initiative and later the Thriving in Ministry Initiative. Currently, Kris also is serving as an interim minister of a Disciples of Christ congregation in Kentucky. Kris is an alum of Lexington Theological Seminary, holding a D. Min. (2020) and M.Div. degree (1997) from LTS, as well as a M.S. in Education (1981) from Indiana University, and a B.A. (1979) from the University of Kentucky. Kris and her husband, Perry, live in the Lexington area. They have four adult children and three grandchildren.
Relevant Links:
Lexington Theological Seminary: https://lextheo.edu/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kristen.p.bentley
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristen-bentley-20a60b65/
Chalice Press: https://chalicepress.com/products/bivocational-ministry-field-notes-for-congregations-and-ministers?_pos=2&_sid=0718b64df&_ss=r
Eric Hoke: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-wbbf2-1412bed
Jeffrey MacDonald: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-vu5iw-126b98d
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, Martha Tatarnic talks with Kyle Norman about his latest book, Alive, Loved, and Free, which explores what it means to hold on to faith in the face of spiritual discouragement, suffering, and doubt. Drawing from his own experience as a priest and caregiver during his wife’s cancer treatment, Kyle shares how this painful journey reshaped his understanding of ministry, prayer, and God’s presence. Together, they discuss Kyle’s journey in ministry and his role as Dean in the Anglican Church of Canada, the power of the Daily Office and morning prayer, and the spiritual pitfalls many Christians face—feelings of unworthiness, struggling to pray, and wrestling with belief. The conversation explores the silence of God in suffering and the presence that often meets us instead, how church leaders can model honest vulnerability, and why doubt is not a disqualifier for faith. Kyle offers practical insights on forgiveness, feeling God’s love, and navigating big spiritual questions, while also sharing his hopes for the future of vibrant, small, and grace-filled Christian communities.
Reverend Kyle Norman is a priest, author, and speaker. Kyle holds Bachelor’s degree in Philosophy, a Masters in Divinity, and a Doctorate in Spiritual Formation. He currently live in Kamloops British Columbia with his wife and son. Currently, Kyle is the Rector of St. Paul’s Cathedral and Dean of the Territory of the People. Kyle is also the Author of “Alive, Loved, & Free: Finding Jesus when Faith is Hard” which tackles the tricky issue of feeling discouraged in our faith.
Relevant Links
Website: www.revkylenorman.ca
Facebook: facebook.com/ReverendKyleNorman
Instagram @reverend.kyle.norman
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Rev. Ben Crosby to explore the state of the mainline church, the challenges of evangelism, and the role of discipleship in church renewal. Ben shares his reflections on church growth, social justice, and spiritual formation. Their conversation delves into the decline of the Anglican Church of Canada, the significance of church attendance numbers for evangelism, and the tension between progressive theology and traditional discipleship. They also discuss overcoming the reluctance to talk about evangelism in mainline circles, the transformative role of the Daily Office in spiritual life, and practical steps for revitalizing church communities. Finally, Ben reflects on what he would prioritize if he were leading a mainline denomination, offering thoughtful perspectives on the church’s future in an era of significant change.
The Rev. Ben Crosby is a priest of the Episcopal Church (USA) currently serving in the Anglican Church of Canada. He is also a PhD student in ecclesiastical history at McGill University, where he studies the English Reformation. Ben is passionate about church renewal in the contemporary mainline, Christian discipleship and spirituality, and what the Christian past (especially the sixteenth century) might have to say about Christian life today. He has been published in Plough, The Anglican Way, Earth & Altar, The Hour, and Faith+Lead. You can read more at bencrosby.substack.com.
Relevant Links
Mike Cosper episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e
Andrew Root episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e
Lyons on Try Tank Podcast: https://share.transistor.fm/s/2983acab
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Do churches need to be more exclusive? For years, both Evangelical and Progressive churches have lowered expectations to get people in the door. In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Dr. Tricia Lyons, a leader in evangelism at Virginia Theological Seminary, about why churches should raise the bar to reclaim a compelling, transformative vision for sharing the gospel. Dr. Lyons challenges seeker-sensitive and all-are-welcome models, questioning whether they truly form disciples. Instead, she advocates for a high-bar Christianity—one that calls people into deep commitment rather than passive inclusion. The conversation explores church decline, the limits of hospitality, the power of formation, and why high expectations create stronger faith communities.
Dr. Lyons currently teaches evangelism, works with the Lifelong Learning team, and serves as the Senior Advisor to the Dean for Evangelism Initiatives at VTS. She also directs the EvangelismFormationLab@VTS, a digital portal on YouTube and Facebook offering original content from the Seminary as well as thoughtful curation of resources in evangelism and formation for the wider church. Dr. Lyons was a lay chaplain and teacher of religion in Episcopal schools for 20 years before being ordained a priest and then serving parishes in Washington, DC, eventually serving as Canon for Evangelism in the Episcopal Diocese of Washington. Currently, Tricia serves as a non-stipendiary priest at the Church of Saint Clement in Alexandria, VA.
Tricia is a member of the Presiding Bishop’s Strategic Cabinet on Evangelism and one of the original writers of the “Way of Love.” Tricia is an honors graduate from Harvard College, the Harvard Divinity School, and received her doctorate from the Virginia Theological Seminary. She is the author of four books on faith formation, The Soul of Adolescence, Teaching Faith with Harry Potter, What is Evangelism? and her most recent, The Evangelist’s Breviary.
Relevant Links
Mike Cosper episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-2m9ra-176f33e
Andrew Root episode: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jtzdu-1500e5e
Lyons on Try Tank Podcast: https://share.transistor.fm/s/2983acab
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What is the church, and what is it for? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. David Emerton to explore the purpose of the church, how different theological traditions define its role, and why these definitions matter for shaping the church’s future. David shares insights on why many churches are caught in cycles of inertia or panic in response to decline, how our implicit assumptions about the church shape ministry practices, and why understanding ecclesiology is essential for church leaders today. The conversation also touches on theological education, the role of tradition, and how the church can remain faithful in a changing world.
David Emerton (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is director of St. Mellitus College, East Midlands, United Kingdom. He previously served as principal of the School of Discipleship in the Diocese of Southwell and Nottingham and as a teaching fellow in systematic and historical theology at the University of Aberdeen. David is ordained as priest in the Church of England and prior to his training for ordination he worked in the City of London as a solicitor. He is the author of God’s Church Community: The Ecclesiology of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Types of Ecclesiology: Five Theological Approaches.
Relevant Links & Episodes
https://stmellitus.ac.uk
https://stmellitus.ac.uk/staff/david-emerton.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-emerton-950444159
Justin Anthony - https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-cjrug-1541ed0
Alison Milbank - https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ggj6t-166b3b9
Natalie Wigg-Stevenson - https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-4e8jr-ef1bbc
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to move beyond awareness and into action? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. sits down with Michelle Ferrigno Warren, author, activist, and faith-rooted organizer, to discuss what it takes to engage in meaningful justice work. Michelle shares her journey from growing up in a fundamentalist Christian environment to becoming a public theologian and advocate for community development and justice. She discusses the importance of proximity in transforming perspectives, why churches often struggle with moving from mercy to justice, and how pastors can engage in advocacy while navigating political and institutional pressures. The conversation also delves into the intersection of faith and immigration, the role of public discipleship in shaping Christian witness, and the challenges of engaging a younger generation disillusioned with the church’s response to injustice.
Michelle Ferrigno Warren is the President of Virago Strategies, a consulting group which provides strategic engagement and project management support for churches and non-profits stepping more deeply into the work of public justice. She has been working in Christian community development for over 30 years utilizing her skills as an educator, worship leader, non-profit manager, public policy specialist & faith-rooted organizer & activist. She is an adjunct professor at Denver Seminary and a Senior Fellow with The Dietrich Bonhoeffer Institute. She is a fierce advocate for justice and has shared much of her journey toward civic engagement and activism in her books, The Power of Proximity, Moving Beyond Awareness to Action, IVP 2017 and Join the Resistance, Step Into the Good Work of Kingdom Justice IVP, 2022.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to lead in weakness rather than strength? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Rev. Dr. Andrew Draper, co-author of Disabling Leadership: A Practical Theology for the Broken Body of Christ. Together, they explore how the church can redefine leadership away from power, charisma, and productivity toward humility, inclusion, and community-driven authority. Andrew shares insights from his work in disability theology, church leadership, and reconciliation, discussing how leadership must embrace human limitation and interdependence rather than seeking control or dominance. They also dive into the challenges of deconstruction and critical theory, why Christian nationalism and secular humanism are both flawed responses to uncertainty, and how churches can better align their practices with their values of inclusion.
Rev. Dr. Andrew T. Draper is the Executive Director of Winebrenner Theological Seminary in Findlay, OH. He is also teaching pastor at Urban Light Community Church in Muncie, IN. He has authored numerous books and articles on race, disability, and the church. Dr. Draper holds a PhD in theological ethics from the University of Aberdeen and an MDiv from Winebrenner Theological Seminary.
Relevant Links:
www.AndrewTDraper.com
www.UrbanLightMuncie.com
www.facebook.com/AndrewThomasDraper
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
How can churches truly become spaces for everyone? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with Dan Kreiss and Ephraim Smith, co-authors of Church for Everyone: Building a Multi-Inclusive Community for Emerging Generations. Together, they explore how churches can move beyond silos of race, class, and ideology to truly reflect the diverse body of Christ. Dan and Ephraim discuss the shift from attractional mega-church models to localized, neighborhood-based faith communities, the growing need for multi-ethnic and multi-generational churches, and why the church should lead the way in reconciliation rather than follow secular models of inclusion. They also examine the tension between church as an institution vs. church as a gathered community and how leaders can navigate these complexities while engaging younger generations.
Dan Kreiss (DMin, George Fox University) is the associate minister for mission and community outreach at Roswell Presbyterian Church in the greater Atlanta area. He was previously professor of youth ministry and dean of the School of Missions at King University in Bristol, Tennessee.
Efrem Smith (DMin, Fuller Theological Seminary) is the colead pastor of Midtown Church, a thriving multiethnic community in Sacramento, California. His books include Raising Up Young Heroes and The Post-Black and Post-White Church. Learn more about Efrem and read his blog at influentalglobal.com. Follow him on X: @efremsmith.
Episodes Referenced:
Walter Strickland: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-zmhss-174b7a6
Brian Davis: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-jd4vj-172854c
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
How can churches navigate change and uncertainty with creativity and resilience? In this episode, Dustin Benac shares insights from his research in the Pacific Northwest, where faith communities are experimenting with new organizational models in response to the decline of traditional church structures. Together, they explore themes of collaboration, authority, and innovation, discussing how faith communities can remain rooted in tradition while adapting to a rapidly shifting landscape. Dustin introduces the concept of "hubs"—new forms of church organization that connect congregations, nonprofits, and faith leaders in dynamic networks. He also reflects on how authority is shifting from institutional hierarchy to relational trust and local leadership, offering a hopeful vision for the future of faith.
Dustin D. Benac, ThD, is an educator, practical theologian and organizational strategist. He teaches at Baylor University’s George W. Truett Theological Seminary as the Co-Founding Director for the Program for the Future Church. He has supported and studied communities of faith who are navigating transition and uncertainty across North America. Prior to his appointment at Baylor, Dustin was a Postdoctoral Associate with Kate Bowler and the Everything Happens Project at Duke University. Dustin is the author or editor of multiple books and articles. His latest book, Adaptive Church: Collaboration and Community in a Changing World, explores what it takes for communities of faith to navigate organizational change. He is the co-editor of Crisis and Care: Meditations on Faith and Philanthropy and the Editor of Practical Theology, an international and interdisciplinary journal. His writing has been published by Faith & Leadership, Christianity Today, The World Council of Churches, Ecclesial Futures.
An accomplished speaker, teacher, and fundraiser, he has worked with congregations and researchers across Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, and the United States. He is a graduate of Duke University, with Doctor of Theology (ThD) and Master of Divinity (MDiv) degrees, and Whitworth University. Dustin lives in Waco, TX with his wife, Casey, their three kids, and a lab, Lila. To join the conversation, go to dustindbenac.com or follow him on Twitter @dustindbenac.
Adaptive Church: https://www.baylorpress.com/9781481317085/adaptive-church/
Discount code is 17Fall24 for 20% off + free shipping
Program for the Future Church’s Impact Report: https://truettseminary.baylor.edu/sites/g/files/ecbvkj631/files/2025-01/PFFC%20Impact%20Report%20Final.pdf
X: https://x.com/dustindbenac?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dustindbenac/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@dustindbenac
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dustin-benac-22069127/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dustin.benac/
Website: https://www.dustindbenac.com/
Episodes Referenced:
Ted Smith https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4nrb-15d747b
Scott Thumma https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-44b9y-154b15b
Justin Anthony: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-cjrug-1541ed0
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
How does the way we use our bodies shape our faith? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. talks with W. David O. Taylor, Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary and author of A Body of Praise: Understanding the Role of Our Physical Bodies in Worship. David shares insights into the importance of physicality in worship, the role of space and posture, and how these practices can deeply shape spiritual formation. David discusses the impact of the pandemic on worship practices, the theological implications of our physical expressions, and the ways worship spaces and rituals influence how we encounter God. Loren and David also explore cultural attitudes toward the body, masculinity, and how we are called to use our bodies as instruments of care, connection, and worship.
David O. Taylor is Associate Professor of Theology and Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary and the author of several books, including Prayers for the Pilgrimage (IVP, 2024), A Body of Praise (Baker Academic, 2023), Open and Unafraid (Thomas Nelson/HarperCollins, 2020), Glimpses of the New Creation (Eerdmans, 2019), and The Theater of God’s Glory(Eerdmans, 2017). In addition to a range of scholarly and popular essays, he has also edited several books, including The Art of New Creation(IVP Academic, 2022), Contemporary Art and the Church (IVP Academic, 2017), and For the Beauty of the Church: Casting a Vision for the Arts (Baker Books, 2010). He serves on the advisory board for Duke Initiatives in Theology and the Arts as well as IVP Academic’s series, “Studies in Theology and the Arts.” An ordained priest, he has lectured widely on the arts, from Thailand to South Africa. In 2016 he produced a short film on the psalms with Bono and Eugene Peterson. He lives in Austin, Texas, with his children and artist wife, Phaedra, with whom he has produced three sets of illustrated prayer cards (here, here, and here). He can be found online on Twitter: @wdavidotaylor; IG: @davidtaylor_theologian; and his personal website, www.wdavidotaylor.com.
Episodes Referenced:
J. Michael Jordan: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/worship-in-an-age-of-anxiety-with-j-michael-jordan/
Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/rooted/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to be a professional Christian? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Dr. Sarah Bereza, a church musician, theologian, and author of Professional Christian: Being Fully Yourself in the Spotlight of Public Ministry. They discuss Sarah's journey from a fundamentalist Baptist upbringing to her current role as a progressive Christian and musician in mainline churches. The conversation explores the complexities of being a "professional Christian"—where your livelihood is tied to your faith—and the challenges of authenticity, power dynamics, and leadership in ministry. Sarah shares insights on navigating purity culture, the pressures of public ministry, and how leaders can balance personal integrity with professional responsibilities. They also delve into the power of music in worship and the importance of fostering community within and beyond church walls.
Sarah Bereza holds a PhD and a Certificate in Feminist Theory from Duke University and has focused her research on music and theology in American Christianity. She is the author of Professional Christian: Being Fully Yourself in the Spotlight of Public Ministry (Westminster John Knox Press: 2022). Sarah is a lifelong church musician and currently serves as the Director of Music at Grace United Methodist Church in St. Louis, MO. She shares resources including a newsletter at sarah-bereza.com.
Relevant Links:
Sarah-bereza.com
https://sarahbereza.substack.com
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/worship-in-an-age-of-anxiety-with-j-michael-jordan/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Kokoro Join in for heartfelt journeys that challenges the way we see ourselves, each other, and the world we share.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What role should the church play in today’s polarized political landscape? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic hosts a roundtable with Loren Richmond Jr., Larry Lin, and Dennis Sanders to explore the intersection of faith and politics. Together, they tackle challenging questions about political engagement, the church’s responsibility to marginalized communities, and navigating conversations with those who hold differing views. Topics include the Christian response to polarization, the role of prayer and discernment in political dialogue, and how churches can foster spaces for meaningful connection across ideological divides. They also reflect on the dangers of disengagement, the power of narrative to inspire hope, and the church's unique opportunity to model Christ-like love in contentious times.
Larry Lin was born and raised in San Jose, California, and he has degrees from Cornell University and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Larry has been a pastor for 10 years, and he currently serves as a pastor at Grace Life Church, a non-denominational church in the Baltimore area. Previously, Larry worked for a college ministry in the Washington, D.C. area, as well as for a non-profit called the One America Movement, equipping faith leaders with resources on toxic polarization. Larry enjoys writing about church and politics, doing deep dives on Wikipedia, and making music. Larry lives with his wife and two children in the Mount Washington neighborhood of Baltimore.
Dennis Sanders is a Michigan native, a lover of the Detroit Lions and Michigan State Spartans and an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He has degrees from Michigan State University and Luther Seminary. Dennis is currently pastor at First Christian Church in St. Paul, Minnesota and the host of the Church and Main podcast. He lives in Minneapolis with his husband Daniel.
Relevant Links:
https://churchandmain.org/: Church and Main Podcast
https://thestateoftheology.com/ - Resource mentioned in the episode
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What can musical theatre teach us about faith and leadership? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic sits down with the Very Reverend Peter Elliott, a retired Anglican priest, former dean of Christ Church Cathedral in Vancouver, and co-host of The Gospel of Musical Theatre. Dean Elliott shares his journey in ministry, offering insights on Christian leadership, the transformative role of music in worship, and adapting to the challenges of a declining institutional church. Highlights include Peter’s experiences with LGBTQ+ inclusion in the Anglican Church, his passion for coaching clergy, and his unique perspective on how musicals like Oklahoma! and My Fair Lady reveal gospel truths and social critiques.
Peter Elliott is a priest of the Anglican Church of Canada. Hailing from the Niagara Region of southern Ontario, his ministry has included leadership within the Anglican communion for the full inclusion of LGBTQ people and strong advocacy for a spirituality that promotes social and environmental justice. Over his 40+ years in ordained ministry Peter has served in senior positions internationally and nationally within the Anglican Church. A long-time resident of Vancouver, British Columbia, Peter was Dean of Christ Church Cathedral (1994-2019) and currently is a coach and consultant in private practice. He is a featured writer on arts and culture in the Anglican Journal-the national newspaper of the Anglican Church of Canada and has enjoyed working with the former Dean of Portland, Oregon, the Very Rev. Nathan LeRud as co-host of the podcast The Gospel and Musical Theatre. Peter’s husband Thomas Roach is an artist working primarily in textiles.
Relevant Links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Elliott_(Canadian_priest) - Peter has his own Wikipedia page!
https://www.echostories.com/peter-elliott-good-ancestors/
https://www.vancouverfoundation.ca/detail/peter-elliott/
https://gospelofmt.podbean.com - His podcast!
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it mean to be faithful and creative in a world shaped by crisis? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Martha Tatarnic welcomes the Reverend Dr. Jesse Zink, an Anglican priest, theologian, and author. Dr. Zink discusses his latest book, Faithful, Creative, Hopeful: 15 Theses for Christians in a Crisis-Shaped World, exploring how the church can navigate and respond to global and local crises with faith, creativity, and resilience. The conversation delves into themes of Christian formation, the impact of economic and social systems on faith communities, and the power of apocalyptic clarity to unveil and resist the dehumanizing forces at work in the world. Dr. Zink shares insights on finding hope amidst challenges, fostering intercultural relationships, and embracing the church’s practices—like the Eucharist—as acts of resistance and renewal.The Rev. Dr. Jesse Zink is an Anglican priest and also serves as canon theologian in the Diocese of Montreal. Born in Vancouver and raised in the United States, Jesse has also served in ministry in South Africa and England before his arrival in Montreal. Since 2017 Jesse, has been Principal of Montreal Diocesan Theological College, or, as it is widely known, “Dio.” Dio is an ecumenical theological college serving the Anglican and United Churches of Canada and is affiliated with McGill University. His latest book, published in fall 2024, is Faithful, Creative, Hopeful: Fifteen Theses for Christians in a Crisis-Shaped World. He is the author of four other books about Christian theology, Christian mission, and Christianity in the non-western world, including Backpacking through the Anglican Communion (2014) and Christianity and Catastrophe in South Sudan: Civil War, Migration, and the Rise of Dinka Anglicanism (2018).
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What happens when ideology takes over church leadership? In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Mike Cosper, creator of The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill and director of podcasts at Christianity Today. Mike explores the dynamics of ideology within church leadership, particularly how ideological thinking can lead to disastrous decision-making. Together, they discuss the influence of secularism and the anxiety surrounding church decline, as well as the allure of charismatic leaders like Mark Driscoll. In a thought-provoking dialogue, they consider the role of populism, the importance of resisting the cult of personality in church leadership, and the practices of worship and storytelling as acts of resistance. Mike also reflects on the reception of his work within the evangelical world and the importance of truth-telling in journalism. He emphasizes the mysterious ways God shows up in broken places, even amidst the church's failings.
Mike Cosper has been creating music, radio shows, and podcasts for more than 20 years. He produced and hosted The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast and is director of podcasts at Christianity Today. He now cohosts a weekly podcast called The Bulletin. Cosper also leads cohorts for church leaders and is the author of four books, including Recapturing the Wonder. He and his family live in Louisville, Kentucky.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What happens when a pastor trades the pulpit for a tech startup? In this episode, Martha welcomes back Alexander Lang, a former PCUSA pastor turned tech entrepreneur, to share his journey from church ministry to launching a business focused on fostering meaningful relationships. Alexander dives into his latest creative projects, including the Restorative Faith Podcast and his upcoming YouTube series, Kokoro, which draws inspiration from Mr. Rogers to address universal themes like trust, anxiety, and doubt, offering adults a space to feel seen, heard, and valued. Through the lens of Kokoro, he unpacks how theology and media intersect, blending a theology of love and acceptance with practical strategies for personal growth. Martha and Alexander also discuss the potential of platforms like YouTube and TikTok to transcend traditional church boundaries, highlighting how social media can transform modern faith communication and reach new audiences in powerful ways.
Alexander Lang is a former PCUSA pastor who worked in church ministry for 20 years. He has since left the church to pursue a technology business that is designed to help people form meaningful relationships. Alex’s interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he’s not working on books, podcasts or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.
Previous Episodes with Alex Lang:
21st Century Spirituality: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/spirituality-for-the-21st-century-rationalist-a-conversation-with-alexander-lang/
The Most Viral Article on Clergy Burnout: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/alex-lang/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, co-hosts Martha Tatarnic and Loren Richmond Jr. reflect on the past season and share personal insights from their ministry journeys. Martha opens up about the challenges of transitioning back to ministry after a focused writing sabbath, touching on key themes like clergy mental health, food insecurity, and economic pressures that have shaped the season’s conversations. Loren and Martha celebrate a major milestone—200 episodes—reflecting on the podcast’s beginnings as a COVID project and its growth into a valued resource for church leaders. They highlight standout episodes, discussing topics such as the evolving landscape of church leadership, the importance of diversity and inclusion, and the benefits of team ministry in building strong faith communities. Throughout the episode, Loren and Martha stress the podcast’s mission to provide companionship and support for those navigating the complexities of ministry.
Episodes Referenced:
Pastoral Health Roundtable: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/pastoral/
Elizabeth Schrader Polczer: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/elizabeth-schrader-polczer-on-rethinking-mary-magdalene-part-1/
Yolanda Solomon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/solomon/
Chuck DeGroat: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/the-primal-wound/
Casey Tygrett: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/casey-tygrett-on-why-remembering-matters/
Grace Ji-Sun Kim: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/grace-ji-sun-kim-on-making-church-less-white/
Allison Milbank: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/alison-milbank-on-why-small-and-local-might-be-the-churchs-way-forward/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What can the wider church learn from the rich history and theology of Black Christianity? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. interviews Dr. Walter Strickland, a theologian and pastor, about his faith journey, spiritual practices, and the history of Black Christianity in America. Drawing from his book Swing Low, Dr. Strickland explores the anchors of Black Christianity, the impact of the Great Migration, and the tension between social engagement and gospel proclamation during the Civil Rights Movement. The conversation highlights lessons the white church can learn from African-American Christianity, the evolution of Black theology, and the relevance of the gospel in addressing societal issues and political complexities.Walter R. Strickland II (PhD, University of Aberdeen) is associate professor of systematic and contextual theology at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has coauthored or contributed to several books, including For God So Loved the World: A Blueprint for Kingdom Diversity. He is a host of the White Horse Inn podcast and founder of Cultural Engagement and Aptree Learning.
Episodes Referenced:
Pastoral Health Roundtable: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/pastoral/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this conversation, Reverend Jocelyn Jones shares her journey of faith, trauma, and healing, emphasizing the importance of community and therapy in overcoming personal challenges. She discusses her experiences in ministry, the barriers women face, and the significance of understanding one's value beyond societal definitions of success and failure. The conversation highlights the need for spiritual practices and wise counsel to stay centered in God's guidance while passionately sharing one's ministry. In this conversation, Rev. Jocelyn Jones discusses the importance of effectively communicating and 'selling' one's ministry, the challenges of valuing one's time and services, and the significance of setting boundaries by learning to say no. She also shares insights on guiding others in their ministry journeys, reflections on leadership, and her hopes for a future of Christianity that emphasizes healing and love over harm.
Rev. Jocelyn is an author, speaker, and entrepreneur. Jocelyn's background as a journalist, executive director of a nonprofit, and community leader allows her to connect with people from all walks of life. She received her bachelor's degree from the University of Iowa in journalism. After receiving her B.A., she earned her master's degree in social work and her master's degree in theological studies. Jocelyn published her first book in 2019, Breaking the Power of the Mask. Jocelyn is an ordained minister and the President of Faith on the Journey, a Christian Counseling company specializing in grief and trauma. She is a Master Facilitator with the Trauma Healing Institute and the founder of the Women in the Ministry which helps women to start, grow, and sustain transformative ministries that change the world.
Website: jocelynjjones.com
Social: IG: @jocelynjjones
FB: @connectwithJocelyn
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@MeetRevJocelyn
Free Ministry Launch Starter Kit at sisterstartyourministry.com
Episodes Referenced:
Casey Tygrett: https:/https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/casey/
Kinsie Tate: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/restore-clergy/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if the key to a deeper relationship with God lies in the way we remember? In this episode, spiritual director and author Casey Tygrett joins us to explore how memory shapes our identity and faith journey. Together, we discuss how embracing spiritual practices that center on intimacy, rather than punishment, can help us unlearn harmful narratives about God. Casey shares insights on remembering as a path to healing, especially in addressing generational trauma that influences our beliefs. We also delve into the role of lament in processing painful memories and the wisdom we gain from them. Finally, we reflect on the Lord’s Supper as a symbol of unity and love, and why pastors must prioritize wellness for the health of their ministry. Casey Tygrett (D.Min.) is a pastor and spiritual director who has lived in the spiritual formation conversation for the last two decades. He is the author of Becoming Curious: A Spiritual Practice of Asking Questions, The Practice of Remembering: Uncovering the Place of Memories in Our Spiritual Life and The Gift of Restlessness: A Spirituality for Unsettled Seasons. He is passionate about the soul health of leaders and the recovery of the transformational way of Jesus that is spiritual formation. He, his wife Holley, and daughter Bailey live in Chicago, IL. www.caseytygrett.com @caseytygrettEpisodes Referenced (Previous Episode with Casey):
Casey Tygrett: https:/https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/casey/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this milestone 200th episode of the Future Christian Podcast, hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic celebrate with a roundtable discussion on clergy wellness, joined by Brian Davis, and Kinsie Tate. Together, they explore the challenges and opportunities surrounding pastoral health, sharing insights and personal experiences from their diverse backgrounds. The conversation delves into the importance of community, the performative nature of clergy life, and the challenges of burnout and mental health. The panelists share personal experiences and insights on navigating success and failure in ministry, the impact of competition among clergy, and the systemic issues facing the church today. They also discuss practical steps and resources for clergy to support their mental, emotional, and spiritual well-being, emphasizing the need for vulnerability and connection in ministry.
Rev. Kinsie Tate is the Founder and Executive Director of Restore Clergy, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to support clergy with programs that improve wellness to cultivate faithful and sustainable ministry. She is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor and has a private practice where she has facilitated growth and transformation for clients for over a decade. She completed her Master of Divinity at Phillips Theological Seminary and was ordained in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in 2007. She served as an associate minister for 3 years prior to returning to complete her Master of Education in Applied Behavioral Studies at Oklahoma City University in 2010. She became a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oklahoma in 2012 and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in California in 2021. She was certified as a Truce Coach in 2022. She lives in California with her spouse, who is United Methodist Clergy serving in a local congregation, and their 3 school age children.
FB: https://www.facebook.com/restoreclergy/
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/restoreclergy/
website: www.restoreclergy.com
Brian Davis has been leading worship in the Denver-metro area for the last 25 years and has built relationships with dozens of churches all over the city. Authenticity and empathy have been hallmarks of Brian’s leadership, and his intention is to use these attributes to coach other worship leaders and inspire greater creativity and deeper spiritual practice in the local church. Brian has three daughters, and he and his wife, Jess, live in Lakewood, CO. He also serves part-time as the Worship Arts Director at New Denver Church.
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/greenroomleaders/
website: https://www.greenroomleaders.com/
Episodes Referenced:
Martha Tatarnic: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/why-gather-with-martha-tatarnic/https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-himxq-13e0aa9
Kinsie Tate: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/restore-clergy/
Brian Davis: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/the-pressure-to-perform-as-a-pastor-with-paul-romig-leavitt-and-brian-davis/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if the core problem in most humans these days isn't that we think too highly of ourselves, but rather that we live with an underlying sense of worthlessness, alienation, and disillusionment? In this episode, Chuck DeGroat joins the pod to talk about his book Healing What's Within and the concept of Internal Family Systems theory. Sharing from his background as a therapist and pastor, DeGroat explains the importance of befriending our different parts and becoming aware of how they show up in different situations. DeGroat emphasizes the significance of connecting with our true selves and living from that core. Exploring the classic "fall" narrative in Genesis 3, DeGroat proposes the theological concept of a primal wound and the importance of understanding the underlying story and biography behind harmful behavior. He emphasizes the need for pastors and church leaders to have support groups and close friendships to navigate the challenges they face.
Chuck DeGroat is a professor of pastoral care and Christian spirituality at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan, where he also serves as the founding executive director of the clinical mental health counseling program. He is a licensed therapist, spiritual director, author, retreat leader speaker, and faculty member with the Soul Care Institute. As a therapist, he specializes in navigating issues of abuse and trauma, pastoral (and leadership) health, and doubt and dark nights on the faith journey. He trains clergy in handling issues of abuse and trauma, conducts pastor and planter assessments, and facilitates church consultations and investigations of abuse. Before transitioning to training and forming pastors, Chuck served as a pastor in Orlando and San Francisco. He and his wife, Sara, have been married for 30 years and have two adult daughters.
Book Buy Link
Chuck’s Website
Chuck’s IG
Chuck’s X
Episodes Referenced:
Chuck DeGroat: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/chuck-degroat-on-when-narcissism-comes-to-church/
Yolanda Solomon: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/solomon/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What if common worship practices are elevating our anxiety rather than centering us in the peace of God? In this conversation, J. Michael Jordan joins the show to talk about the intersection of faith and mental health, particularly in relation to anxiety. He explores the historical context of the anxiety-relief repentance model in revivalist movements and its impact on worship practices. He emphasizes the need for a more holistic and sustainable approach to faith that goes beyond the cycle of anxiety, repentance, and relief. Jordan emphasizes the importance of a guiding story outside of our own experiences and the value of ritual in worship. He also discusses practical aspects of worship, such as lighting and technology, and how they can either draw us deeper into the worship experience or distract us from it.
Rev. Dr. Michael Jordan (PhD, Drew University) is professor of theology at Houghton University. From 2002-2009, he was the pastor of Exton Community Baptist Church in Exton, PA. From 2013-2024, he served as Dean of the Chapel at Houghton before moving over to teach full-time this fall. Over the summer, he is the staff chaplain at Camp-of-the-Woods, a Christian camp in the Adirondack Mountains. Mike’s wife Jill is a mathematician who also teaches at Houghton; they live just off campus and together are raising their five children: Grace, Jack, Lucy, Gabriel, and Anne. In his spare time, Mike enjoys singing, crossword puzzles and distance running and is a rabid fan of Philadelphia professional and college sports.
Facebook @RevDrMichaelJordan
michael.jordan@houghton.edu
theothermichaeljordan.substack.com
Episodes Referenced:
Andrew Root: https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-himxq-13e0aa9
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Despite the headlines, young adults are still interested in church, says Jeff Keuss. In this episode, he discusses the surprising findings that young adults view churches as vital social change agents and are not opposed to their existence. Instead, they seek meaningful, inclusive, and intellectually engaging communities that address real-world issues and offer genuine care and mentorship. He also explores the concept of "belong, believe, behave" in church life, challenging traditional membership models and advocating for a more inclusive approach that values diverse voices and experiences. He emphasizes the importance of churches as resource centers that prepare individuals for their roles in the world, rather than merely places of worship. The conversation also explores the shifting dynamics of church leadership, the role of gender diversity in fostering healthy communities, and the critical need for mentorship across generations. Dr. Keuss's research offers a hopeful vision for the future of Christianity, one that embraces diversity, open dialogue, and the transformative power of faith.
Jeff Keuss, PhD brings over 30 years of leadership and managerial experience in higher education, health care and social services administration both in the US and UK. In his various roles as a Professor, Director of the University Scholars Honors Program as well as Associate Dean of Graduate Studies for Seattle Pacific Seminary within SPU, Jeff continues to be actively engaged in research, fundraising, curriculum coordination, working with external publics such as churches and faith communities, major donor acquisition and retention, administrative recruitment, and annual fund development. His commitment to faith development is seen in his $2.75 million in grant acquisitions as part of a $55 million initiative from the Lilly Endowment for the development of Pivot NW, a non-profit research and support institute seeking to research innovation models for the sake of engaging young adults in innovative social ventures with faith communities. His recent publication Paul Ricoeur and the Hope of Higher Education: The Just University (Rowman & Littlefield, 2020), speaks to his continued to work on the future of higher education as a place of justice and hope for human flourishing alongside a global network of thought leaders in educational innovation.
Jeff is an ordained minister of the Word and Sacrament (PCUSA) and served several congregations both in the US and in the Church of Scotland as Assistant Minister of the Glasgow Cathedral. He is a graduate of Seattle Pacific University (BA), Fuller Theological Seminary (MDiv), Harvard University (Masters in I/O Psychology), and the University of Glasgow, Scotland (PhD in Literature, Theology, and the Arts).
Episodes Referenced:
Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/ryan-burge-on-myths-about-religion-and-politics-in-america/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
How do we make church less "white," and more welcoming and inclusive of different non-white cultures, perspectives, and persons? In this conversation, Grace Ji-Sun Kim discusses her book When God Became White: Dismantling Whiteness for More Just Christianity and the need to challenge the white, male image of God in Christianity. She shares her personal experiences with racism and explores the impact of the image of a white Jesus on the perception of race and power in the church. Dr. Kim suggests embracing non-white, non-gendered images of God in worship and liturgy as a way to promote inclusivity and challenge racism. She also emphasizes the importance of recognizing God's presence in other cultures and religions.
Dr. Grace Ji-Sun Kim received her MDiv from Knox College at the University of Toronto and her PhD from the University of Toronto. She is professor of theology at Earlham School of Religion. Dr. Kim is an internationally renowned lecturer and the acclaimed author or editor of 24 books, including When God Became White, Surviving God, and Invisible. Among many other accolades, Englewood review of books listed Invisible as one of the 12 important theology books of 2021, and listed Kim as one of 10 important women theologians that you should be reading. She is also on the list of the top 10 writers shaping our movement put together by the Center for Progressive Renewal.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
Have you ever wondered if the battles we face in the modern church are just echoes of centuries-old conflicts? In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. dives deep with Elesha J. Coffman to uncover how the struggles of the past are not only shaping our present but could be setting the stage for the church’s future. Elesha delves into the pivotal events that have shaped American church history, with a particular emphasis on the Methodist Church's split over slavery in 1844 and similarities between the division within the UMC today over LGBTQ inclusion and racial justice. They also discuss the tendency for churches to become ideological bunkers, the influence of biblical interpretation in shaping theology and practice, and whether everything just comes down to economic issues.
Elesha J. Coffman is an accomplished historian and professor at Baylor University, specializing in the study of American religious history. She earned her Ph.D. in American Religious History from Duke University and has contributed significantly to the field through her extensive research and publications. Coffman is the author of The Christian Century and the Rise of the Protestant Mainline as well as Turning Points in American Church History. Her work examines the intersections of media, religion, and culture, highlighting the role of religious publications in shaping public discourse. Coffman's scholarly pursuits focus on how religious groups engage with broader societal issues, offering valuable insights into the evolving landscape of American faith and identity.
Episodes Referenced:
Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rev. Dr. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, who delves into her recent research, including the Latino Congregations Trends from the Faith Communities Today (FACT) study and the Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations (EPIC) study. She highlights key findings on the state of Latino congregations in the U.S., including challenges related to building ownership, generational wealth, and reliance on fundraising. Kristina also shares insights from her book, Unraveling Religious Leadership, which examines the Eurocentric norms in theological education and the need for a more inclusive approach to ministry.
Rev. Kristina Lizardy-Hajbi, Ph.D. (she/her/ella) is Associate Professor of Leadership and Formation and Faculty Director of the Office of Professional Formation at Iliff School of Theology in Denver, Colorado. In addition, she co-directs the Doctor of Ministry in Prophetic Leadership at Iliff and coordinates the Certificate in Latinx Studies for the Iliff/DU Joint PhD in Religion. Her teaching and research interests include organizational leadership, liberative and decolonial approaches to ministry, intersectional pedagogical practices, and applied research methods. Kristina is the author of Unraveling Religious Leadership: Power, Authority, and Decoloniality (Fortress, 2024), author of the report "Latino Congregations: Trends from the Faith Communities Today (FACT) and Exploring the Pandemic Impact on Congregations (EPIC) Studies" (Hartford Institute for Religion Research, 2023), and co-editor of Explore: Vocational Discovery in Ministry (Rowman & Littlefield, 2022). She is an Ordained Minister in the United Church of Christ.
Episodes Referenced:
Scott Thumma: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, we explore with Megan Bissell the evolving landscape of American Christianity and how faith communities can adapt to new challenges. We begin by discussing the latest data on "nones" (those with no religious affiliation) and Gen Z, highlighting the need for a shift in thinking within American Christianity. Megan shares why she believes faith should be viewed as "a conversation" and why relationships rooted in listening are essential for churches looking to reconnect with modern society. We then introduce the concept of Sacred Listening Tools to help foster meaningful engagement. We delve into the origins of this idea, its practical applications, and its three foundational roots. Lastly, we consider the future implications for Sunday worship and discuss how the role of pastors may need to evolve to better support deeper relationships and conversations within their communities.
Megan Bissell is the co-founder of Future of Faith and an applied sociologist and researcher who specializes in the lives of young people, relationships, and group dynamics. She has spent her career turning research into actionable insights that people can use to make a meaningful impact. She has extensive experience in leading research, facilitating workshops and educational programs, and consulting with organizations who want to enhance their relational and organizational dynamics. Megan was previously Head of Research for both the Social Research Lab at the University of Northern Colorado and then at Springtide Research Institute. She served as the Vice President for Research at the National Catholic Educational Association. She has a B.A. and an M.A in Sociology. Megan lives in Greeley, Colorado with her family of creatives, where she has no choice but to be inspired by those around her.
Video: https://youtu.be/m3lrNSEWrwI
Website: www.futureoffaith.org
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-bissell-7b503713/
Episodes Referenced:
Rebekah Simon-Peter: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/amanda-udis-kessler-talks-progressive-christian-ethics/
Josh Packard: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/stuck/
Andrew Root: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/rooted/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Rebekah Simon-Peter, a passionate advocate for reconnecting spiritual leaders with their divine potential to co-create miracles. They discuss the importance of moving beyond mere church attendance to fostering deep spiritual growth and apostleship within congregations. She emphasizes the significance of understanding Jesus from a Jewish perspective and how this can transform our reading of the New Testament. Loren and Rebekah also explore the challenges and opportunities for churches in a post-pandemic world, highlighting the need for spiritual depth and visionary leadership
Rebekah is passionate about spiritual growth and the communities it fosters. Over the last eighteen years, she has positively impacted thousands of leaders through her award-winning group coaching program, Creating a Culture of Renewal®. A dynamic speaker and master trainer, Rebekah has engaged and challenged audiences around the country. She is the author of many books including Believe Like Jesus: Rising from Faith in Jesus to the Faith of Jesus (Market Square Books, November 6, 2024), Forging a New Path, and Dream Like Jesus. Rebekah is a wife, sister, daughter, foster mom, mentor, and friend. When she’s not hanging out with family, you can find her journaling, hiking on the mountain, at the gym, or enjoying a good cup of coffee. For more information about Rebekah Simon-Peter, call (307) 333-5990, email office@rebekahsimonpeter.com or visit www.rebekahsimonpeter.com.
https://www.facebook.com/cultureofrenewal
https://www.instagram.com/rebekahsimonpeter/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebekahsimonpeter
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
What does it look like to live ethically as a Progressive Christian? In this episode, Amanda Udis-Kessler explores ethics from a Progressive Christian context, emphasizing the importance of loving our enemies and the connection to generosity of spirit as she believes Progressive Christianity is about striving to follow Jesus's path and working towards building a beloved community. The conversation also touches on the complexity of human nature, with the capacity for both tremendous good and terrifying evil, and thus the importance of societal influences to shape our values and actions. Amanda also explores the relationship between the gospel and social programs, highlighting the importance of both spiritual and practical implications of the gospel. She suggests that churches can live out their faith by focusing on cultivating virtues and becoming laboratories of radical hospitality.
Dr. Amanda Udis-Kessler is a sociologist, writer, hymnwriter, and sacred music composer. Pilgrim Press published her book Abundant Lives: A Progressive Christian Ethic of Flourishing this past spring, and Anthem Press is about to release her book Cultural Processes of Inequality: A Sociological Perspective. Amanda is also a core contributor to the anthology A Liturgy for All Bodies: New Words for a New World, and the author of chapters in an additional 13 books. Amanda serves as the accompanist at her church, Vista Grande Community Church United Church of Christ in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and as a hymn text writer for the Rocky Mountain Conference of the UCC. She also develops and leads workshops on topics ranging from creativity to how white people can work against racism. She will lead a session on developing inclusive and antiracist liturgical materials at the 2024 UCC Musicians Association annual conference.
Her sacred music website https://queersacredmusic.com has over 150 free-use hymns and worship songs in score, recording, and video formats. Her writing website https://amandaudiskessler.com includes a repository of freely available chapters, essays, sermons, and liturgical materials.
https://thepilgrimpress.com/products/abundant-lives-a-progressive-christian-ethic-of-flourishing-udis-kessler
websites and social media:
Writing: https://amandaudiskessler.com
Music: https://queersacredmusic.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amanda.udiskessler
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this episode, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes Yolanda Solomon, the Director of Discipleship at Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York. Yolanda shares her journey in ministry, her love for the Knicks, and the importance of creating a reciprocal discipleship culture within the church. They discuss the challenges of modern discipleship, the pitfalls of fear, shame, and hatred, and the need for a long-term commitment to spiritual growth. Yolanda also provides insights on fostering a community where everyone can contribute to the discipleship process, emphasizing the power of mutual support and the Holy Spirit in transforming lives.
Yolanda M. Solomon is the director of discipleship at Epiphany Church in Brooklyn, New York, where she teaches and creates discipleship curriculum and resources. She has also worked in campus ministry at Columbia University in New York, where she was blessed to serve undergraduate students for seven years. Yolanda is a disciple of Christ, a Brooklyn native, and a lifelong Knicks fan, which richly fuels her prayer life. She lives in Brooklyn with her family.
Buy her book here:
https://bookshop.org/p/books/discipleship-as-holy-collaboration-helping-others-follow-jesus-in-real-life-yolanda-solomon/20713480?ean=9781514006191
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistant
In this conversation, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Rob Hurkmans about his journey in ministry and the lessons he has learned along the way. They discuss topics such as their 20th anniversary of ordination, the faith context in which Rob was raised, his calling to ministry, and his current role at Trinity Streetsville. Rob shares his experience of being an idea person and the importance of slowing down and bringing others along in the process. They also touch on the challenges of personal investment in ideas and the influence of church growth literature. They also explore the role of liturgy in the church and the need for creative and inclusive forms of worship. Robert also shares his insights on leadership models, the need for contextual and collaborative approaches, and the importance of leading through change.
The Reverend Doctor Robert Hurkmans is the senior pastor at Trinity Anglican Church in Streetsville, Mississauga. He is married to Sally and they have four daughters. Rob recently completed his Doctor of Ministry degree in Leadership Development from Tyndale University. Rob was ordained with Martha Tatarnic 20 years ago in the Diocese of Niagara.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistance
Bishop Michael Pryse joins the show to share his perspectives on change and leadership in the Church from his three decades of experience in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. He has helped the church navigate change, particularly in becoming more inclusive of LGBTQ+IA individuals. The conversation explores the challenges and pitfalls of the church, particularly in relation to the changing cultural context. It emphasizes the need to let go of the past and embrace new ways of being the church. The conversation also touches on the importance of inclusivity, engaging with newcomers, and breaking down denominational barriers. The hope for the future of the church includes being more conversant with science and technology, promoting equity, and fostering dialogue with people of other faiths.
Bishop Pryse leads the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. He attended Eastwood Collegiate and earned a Bachelor of Arts in History and English from Wilfrid Laurier University, followed by a Master of Divinity from Waterloo Lutheran Seminary in 1985. Ordained on June 7, 1985, he served as a pastor in various Ontario communities and later as Assistant to the Bishop of Eastern Synod. In 1998, he was elected Bishop of the Eastern Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada. Bishop Pryse is a strong advocate for Christian unity and ecumenical cooperation. He co-chaired the Joint Anglican Lutheran Commission and the Anglican Lutheran International Coordinating Committee. He has participated in numerous ecumenical and multi-faith delegations worldwide. Inspired by his grandfather's ministry among the Six Nations peoples and his own adoption experience, Bishop Pryse is committed to breaking down divisions within the human family. He has traveled extensively to support global justice, human rights, and inclusivity. He was awarded an honorary Doctor of Divinity by Wilfrid Laurier University in 2011 for his leadership in public, ecumenical, and multi-faith areas. Bishop Pryse and his wife Lois have four adult daughters and nine grandchildren and live in Kitchener, Ontario.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistance
The conversation between Martha and Callie Swanlund covers Callie's journey in the Episcopal Church, the changes in her Christian experience, her current ministry context, and the inspiration behind her book 'From Weary to Wholehearted: A Restorative Resource for Overcoming Clergy Burnout'. The discussion also delves into the challenges of clergy burnout, the pressure points for church leaders, and the importance of support systems and retreats. The conversation explores the concept of retreat as a means of self-care and the challenges of claiming personal needs. It delves into the SPARK framework, systemic issues in the church, and the future of Christianity. Callie Swanlund shares insights on fostering wellness for leaders and the importance of brave conversations.
Callie Swanlund is an Episcopal priest, retreat leader, spiritual companion, and coach who helps others know their belovedness and find their Spark. Her new book, From Weary to Wholehearted, is a restorative resource for overcoming ministry burnout. Callie is a creative minister and leads individuals and groups in the work of Dr. Brené Brown as a Certified Daring Way Facilitator. Her How2charist: Digital Instructed Eucharist film has reached Christians and curious individuals around the world, and her Wholehearted Wisdom movement invites others into deeper reflection and connection across social media. Callie is an Episcopal Church Foundation Fellow and has keynoted such conferences as: Kanuga Christian Formation Conference, Episcopal Communicators Annual Conference, and Episcopal Camps and Conference Centers Annual Conference. She lives in Philadelphia with her co-dreaming partner Jeremy, their two tween/teen children, and a rescue pup named Rufus. www.callieswanlund.com | callie@callieswanlund.com
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Restore Clergy If you are clergy in need of tailored, professional support to help you manage the demands of ministry, Restore Clergy is for you!
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Alexander Lang - Production Assistance
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Jason Byassee to talk about church growth in a Mainline church context. Jason discusses the importance of churches embracing their own limitations and uncertainties. He emphasizes the need for churches to recognize that their only hope lies in the resurrection of Jesus and to be willing to give away their assets to those who can fill them. Byassee also highlights the significance of funerals in conveying the meaning of life and the role of the church in providing a message that is worth hearing. He explores the commonalities among thriving churches, including a willingness to try new things and a focus on character rather than charisma. Ultimately, Byassee encourages pastors to have hope in a God who raises the dead and to trust in the future of Christianity.
Jason Byassee is senior pastor of Timothy Eaton Memorial Church in Toronto, ON. He previously taught preaching and held the Butler Chair in Homiletics at the Vancouver School of Theology. He is author or editor of 20 books on Christian faith, biblical interpretation, thriving congregations, leadership, and church history. Learn more at www.jasonbyassee.com.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this conversation, Professor Alison Milbank discusses the concept of the parish and its importance in the life of faith. She shares her experiences growing up in the Church of England and the changes she has witnessed due to secularization. Milbank emphasizes the significance of the parish as a local community that brings together people of different ages and cultures. She also explores the threats to the parish, including the influence of secularization and the rise of bureaucratic managerialism in the Church. Milbank argues for a return to the core activities of the church and a focus on mission and evangelism. They also discuss the significance of parish buildings as spaces for community engagement and the potential for the parish to address issues such as mental health, social justice, and environmental sustainability. Despite the challenges, she expresses hope for the future of Christianity and the resurgence of faithfulness.
Alison Milbank is Professor of Theology and Literature at the University of Nottingham, where she works in the field of religion and the arts. She has had a particular interest in horror fiction from Daughters of the House: Modes of the Gothic in Victorian Fiction in 1992 to God and the Gothic: Religion, Romance and Reality in the English Literary Tradition (2018). She has also published on Dante reception (Dante and the Victorians, 1998) and on fantasy and religion (Chesterton and Tolkien as Theologians: The Fantasy of the Real, 2007). She is also an Anglican priest, currently Canon Theologian and Priest Vicar at Southwell Minster, a cathedral and parish church in a small town near Sherwood Forest. In 2010, with Andrew Davison she wrote For the Parish: A Critique of Fresh Expressions and in 2023, The Once and Future Parish, with six lectures on the book available on you tube at https://www.youtube.com/@sshoxford5856/videos Associated with the Radical Orthodoxy movement, she co-edited Preaching Radical and Orthodox, with John Hughes and Arabella Milbank Robinson.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic continues her conversation with Elizabeth Schrader Polczer for the second part of a groundbreaking conversation on biblical scholarship. Continuing from last week, Elizabeth delves deeper into her research on the Gospel of John, Papyrus 66, and the evolving understanding of Mary Magdalene's role in early Christianity. She explores the textual instabilities around the names Mary and Martha, revealing how these edits might have been attempts to downplay Mary's significance as a central figure in the Christian narrative. Elizabeth discusses the viral reaction to her work, sparked by Diana Butler Bass's sermon at the Wild Goose Festival, and the challenges of navigating public and scholarly reactions to her theories. She also addresses how her findings resonate with John scholars and the broader implications for understanding women's roles in the church.
This is the second of a two-part episode, so go back and listen to the first half, which can be found in the show notes below.
Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villanova University. She holds a doctorate in Early Christianity from Duke University, with a focus on textual criticism, Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of John. Her research has been published in the Harvard Theological Review, the Journal of Biblical Literature, TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism, the Comparative Oriental Manuscript Studies Bulletin, and the Journal of Early Christian Studies. She is regularly invited to present her peer-reviewed research at churches and conferences internationally.
On Twitter/X: @libbieschrader
Part One
https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-ushmm-16554d0
YouTube of Diana Butler Bass sermon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSH-nfdh_S0&t=5s
Elizabeth's Album:
https://music.apple.com/us/artist/libbie-schrader/16720802
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes Elizabeth Schrader Polczer to talk about her groundbreaking work in biblical scholarship, particularly in how we see and understand Mary Magdalene and the Gospel of John. Elizabeth discusses the textual instabilities around the names Mary and Martha in John 11, visible in Papyrus 66, revealing intriguing insights and controversial edits that challenge traditional interpretations. She shares her discovery of editorial changes that suggest Martha may have been added to the Gospel of John in the second century. This revelation has significant implications for how we understand the role of Mary Magdalene in early Christianity.
This is the first of a two-part episode, so be sure to stay tuned next week for the second half.
Elizabeth Schrader Polczer is Assistant Professor of New Testament at Villanova University. She holds a doctorate in Early Christianity from Duke University, with a focus on textual criticism, Mary Magdalene, and the Gospel of John. Her research has been published in the Harvard Theological Review, the Journal of Biblical Literature, TC: A Journal of Biblical Textual Criticism, the Comparative Oriental Manuscript Studies Bulletin, and the Journal of Early Christian Studies. She is regularly invited to present her peer-reviewed research at churches and conferences internationally.
On Twitter/X: @libbieschrader
https://dianabutlerbass.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Mary-the-Tower.pdf
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes back Alexander Lang for a deep and insightful conversation. Alex, a former PCUSA pastor, has transitioned from church ministry to a technology business aimed at fostering meaningful relationships. The discussion centers on Alex's recent experiences since leaving his pastoral role and delves into the themes of his new book, "Restored: Spirituality for the 21st Century Rationalist." Alex shares his journey over the past five months, reflecting on the sense of community he misses and the broader implications for society as traditional church communities decline. The conversation explores the concept of the overview effect, inspired by astronaut Edgar Mitchell's transformative experience in space, and how it can redefine our understanding of spirituality. The episode also tackles the challenges faced by 21st-century rationalists in reconciling scientific understanding with spiritual practices. Alex offers a fresh perspective on prayer, emphasizing its potential for fostering deep connections and personal transformation, and highlights the importance of beauty as a spiritual practice and its accessibility in everyday life.
Alexander Lang is a former PCUSA pastor who worked in church ministry for 20 years. He has since left the church to pursue a technology business that is designed to help people form meaningful relationships. Alex’s interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he’s not working on books, podcasts or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.
Previous Episode with Alex:
https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-9dxb3-14b9d38
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic welcomes, Christopher Dawes, a veteran worship leader and musician in Canada. Chris discusses the challenges and pressures faced by church musicians and the unique role they play in worship. The conversation also explores the individuality and isolation experienced by church musicians and the need for better relationships between musicians and ministers. The conversation delves into the role of music in churches, the challenges faced by church musicians, and the significance of the Summer Institute of Church Music. It explores the power and pastoral potential of music, the overvaluation and undervaluation of music in churches, and the impact of music on the future of Christianity.
Christopher Dawes is a Toronto-based performer, conductor and consultant. A three-decade fixture of the Toronto music community and frequent collaborator with many of its top institutions, he currently serves as Organist and Director of Music to Rosedale Presbyterian Church, and Artistic Director of the 18-voice a capella Marion Singers of Greater Toronto. For two decades he has served as Collaborative Pianist and Coach to the graduate and undergraduate instrumental and choral conducting programs of the Faculty of Music, University of Toronto, and as a Director of Canada’s Summer Institute of Church Music. Since 2018 he has also chaired the Executive of the Southern Ontario Chapter (SOCHS) of the Hymn Society of the US and Canada. Chris’s graduate work in the area of Music Criticism and musical genre has led to occasional blogging and podcasting under the banner “Ideas About Music,” speaking at conferences, and eventually founding the Celtic-crossover band Chroí in 2013.
Web - http://ideasaboutmusic.ca, and on Facebook.
For more than 50 years, the Summer Institute of Church Music (SICM) has been helping church music to flourish by hosting a week-long transformative professional development program in July at Trafalgar Castle School in Whitby ON. Church musicians, worship leaders, clergy and choristers study under the direction of world class faculty, and participate in daily worship, workshops, and discussions of current issues facing churches and their music. Students of all skill levels and denominations are welcomed.
Recently re-located to All Saints' Anglican Church in Whitby, in 2024 SICM is debuting a 3-day, 12-hour program running in-person and online from 12pm-4pm Eastern Time, and will also feature the Final Round of the 26th biennial Osborne Organ Competition. It remains the only program of its kind in Canada.
Web - http://sicm.ca, and on Facebook.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this joint podcast episode with Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, Kevin, Rob and Martha talk about why as busy pastors leading churches they carve out time to be part of hosting podcasts. What are the conversations that the church needs to be having? What has been difficult for the church to talk about? What do we see as the value of making time and space for conversations with different voices from a variety of perspectives figuring our leadership in our churches today? What do we hope to offer the church on Vicars' Crossing and Future Christian, and what have we been learning in the process? Vicars' Crossing is a theological and church leadership podcast cohosted by Anglican priests Kevin George and Rob Henderson.
Rob Henderson currently serves as rector of Holy Trinity St. Stephen’s Memorial Anglican Church in Ontario. His previous parishes have been in the town of Essex and the city of Windsor. Before his ordination in 2008, Rob worked in radio broadcasting in Chatham and Leamington. He has been co-hosting the Vicars Crossing podcast with his friend and colleague Kevin George since 2019. Rob is married to wife Margie and has 2 boys.
Kevin George was ordained in 1997 in the diocese of Eastern Newfoundland and Labrador, and has been a priest in the diocese of Huron since 1998. Kevin has served in the Parish of Labrador West, NL; St Marks by-the-Lake Tecumseh, ON; and is currently the Rector of St Aidan’s Church London, ON. Kevin earned a Bachelor in Education degree from Memorial University of Newfoundland, a Master of Divinity Degree from Huron University, and a Doctorate in Ministry from McCormick Theological Seminary. His thesis research was focused on faithful baptismal response in interfaith settings. Kevin is married to Catherinanne, who is the Director of Campus Ministry at Brescia University, and a chaplain in the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve. Kevin is a loyal Habs fan, prays for the return of Les Expos, and has learned what suffering looks like from being introduced to the Detroit Lions by Rob! Kevin is an avid reader, loves being involved in the community, and enjoys an appropriate adult beverage with friends. Fun fact: In 2019 Kevin preached for 55 Hours without sleep.
The Vicars' Crossing Podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-vicars-crossing/id1439360909
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Theology Beer Camp
https://homebrewedchristianity.lpages.co/theology-beer-camp-24/
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Associate Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Rev. Teresa Hord Owens, General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) shares about the Covenant Project, which aims to increase participation and decision-making in the church, the Church Narrative Project, which focuses on changing the narrative of the church to be more inclusive and anti-racist, and the Proclamation Project, which equips clergy with preaching resources. She also talks about the importance of data gathering and analysis in understanding the state of the denomination. Hord Owens also highlights the importance of theological diversity, staying together at the table, and the need for moral and theological grounding in political engagement. Finally, she emphasizes the role of imagination, the importance of spiritual practice and Bible study, and why we need a more connected church that leverages its resources to do good in the world.
Rev. Teresa “Terri” Hord Owens is the General Minister and President of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. She is the first person of color and second woman to lead the denomination, and the first woman of African descent to lead a mainline denomination. Elected in 2017, Rev. Hord Owens was re-elected to a second term as General Minister and President in 2023. Her ministry actively reflects the Disciples’ priority of being an anti-racist church, being a movement for wholeness, welcoming all to the Lord’s table as God has welcomed us. Her exhortation to the church is “Let’s be the church we say we are. It is in being who we say we are that we actively bear witness to God’s limitless love for all.” Rev. Hord Owens earned her bachelor’s degree from Harvard University and her MDiv from the University of Chicago Divinity School, where she subsequently served as Dean of Students for 12 years. Rev. Hord Owens’ resume includes more than 20 years of leadership in corporate America leading diverse teams in data management. She serves on the National Council of Churches as the Treasurer of the Governing Board and is a member of the World Council of Churches Central Committee.
Relevant Links
http://disciples.org/
https://disciples.org/ogmp/
David Anderson Hooker on the power of narrative
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this episode, Loren and Martha review the highlights of the season and discuss three broad themes: pastoral health, individualization versus connection, and leading change. They play clips from interviews with Kinsie Tate, Jonathan Foster, Ted Smith, Tessa Pinkstaff, Doug Powe, Scott Thumma and more to explore these themes. They discuss the challenges clergy face in dealing with their own issues while ministering to others, the need for support and community, and the tension between individualism and connection in the church. They also touch on the impact of live streaming and online ministry on the church community. The conversation explores the themes of consumerism, leading change, and the Messiah complex in church leadership. It emphasizes the need to resist the temptation to view churches as products and pastors as content creators. The dangers of quick fixes and the importance of discernment and listening are discussed. The conversation also touches on the interconnectedness of different topics in Christian leadership and teases upcoming conversations on the importance of the small and local in the church, flourishing mainline churches, clergy burnout and wellness, and more.
Episodes Highlighted:
How to Lead Faithful Innovation
New Models of Clergy Credentialing
Ted Smith
Doug Powe
Restore-clergy/Kinsie Tate
Jay Kim
Scott Thumma
Justin Anthony
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
With the continued decline of churches and denominations, many pastors and church leaders are facing a future filled with doom. In this conversation, Brian McLaren discusses his new book Life After Doom and how the four possible scenarios for the future of our world mirror the reality of institutional church: collapse avoidance, collapse rebirth, collapse survival, and collapse extinction. McLaren emphasizes the need for pastoral care and support in the face of these challenges and encourages individuals to show up for what they love. He also suggests reimagining the Christian faith as a series of movements rather than institutions. McLaren emphasizes the importance of small groups of people coming together to live simpler and more meaningful lives, focusing on conversation and enjoying the beauty of nature.
Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a core faculty member and Dean of Faculty for the Center for Action and Contemplation. and a podcaster with Learning How to See. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest books are Faith After Doubt (January 2021), Do I Stay Christian? (May 2022), and Life After Doom: Wisdom and Courage for a World Falling Apart, (May 2024). Born in 1956, he graduated from University of Maryland with degrees in English (BA, 1978, and MA, 1981). His academic interests included Medieval drama, Romantic poets, modern philosophical literature, and the novels of Dr. Walker Percy. In 2004, he was awarded a Doctor of Divinity Degree (honoris causa) from Carey Theological Seminary in Vancouver, BC, Canada, and in 2010, he received a second honorary doctorate from Virginia Theological Seminary (Episcopal).
Past Episodes with Brian:
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/brian-mclaren-on-faith-after-doubt/
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/do-i-stay-a-christian-with-brian-mclaren/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this conversation, Tessa Pinkstaff and Dwight Zscheile discuss their book, Leading Faithful Innovation. They define faithful innovation as the adoption of new or ancient practices that help the church connect more deeply with God, each other, and their neighbors. They emphasize the need for leaders to create an environment where the Holy Spirit can lead and for the church to embrace failure as a learning opportunity. They also discuss the importance of cultivating a culture of listening, acting, and sharing. The guests discuss the need for churches to adapt and change in order to connect with people in today's culture. They emphasize the importance of empowering laypeople and creating a culture of deep listening and discernment. They also address the challenges of consensus and the potential for political and cultural tribalism to overshadow the gospel.
Tessa Pinkstaff is the founder of Practices for Life, a ministry that invites people to explore Christian practices as a way to experience God’s presence. She currently leads the weekly Dwelling in the Word online gathering and serves as a project consultant for Luther Seminary’s Faith+Lead. Tessa is a co-author of Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future. She has a Master of Arts in Ministry from Bethel Seminary and is in the process of becoming certified as a spiritual director.
Dwight Zscheile is vice president of innovation and professor of congregational mission and leadership at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He is also a co-author of Leading Faithful Innovation, and has authored several other books. A graduate of Stanford University, Yale University, and Luther Seminary, he is an ordained Episcopal priest and has served congregations in Minnesota, Virginia and Connecticut. Dwight’s experience growing up in a secular home in California has shaped his commitment to helping the church cultivate Christian community with neighbors in today’s changing world.
Past Episode with Dwight: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/dwight-zscheile-and-the-future-of-mainline-churches/
URL for the book on faithlead.org:
https://faithlead.org/topics/faithful-innovation/
URL for the workbook:
faithlead.org/ebooks/faithful-innovation-leader-companion
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
With the breakdown of institutions and denominations, faltering also are the credentialing methods for pastors and clergy. In this conversation, Jonathan Foster joins the show to talk about Open Table Network, a clergy network that provides credentialing and support for pastors, chaplains, and counselors who have been excluded or marginalized by their faith traditions. With culture moving away from "big tent" institutions to affinity groups, Foster acknowledges the dangers of such but emphasizes the importance of local missional communities and empowering individuals rather than building centralized institutions. He also discusses the trend of denominations splintering and sees the value in smaller, more localized groups. The conversation explores the complexities of ministry credentialing and the challenges faced by spiritual leaders in the current age. It also delves into the theme of grief and the experiences of those who have transitioned out of traditional denominations.
Jonathan is the partner of one, father of three, author, podcaster, lowercase t-theologian with some degrees, founder of lovehaiti.org, and a lover of mountains (oh, and colorado school of mines) and in general, a solvem probler extraordinaire. Find out more at jonathanfosteronline.com
Previous Episode with Jonathan:
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jonathan-foster-on-the-path-of-reconstruction/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
University Chaplain and Professor Nichole Torbitzsky joins the show to talk about her work with college students, how they are engaging and identifying with Christianity, and what are the biggest "stumblingblocks" for students as they consider faith. She also discusses as Open and Relational / Process theology, the importance of community and spiritual connection for young adults, and the challenges faced by college students in finding their identity and place in the church. Torbitzsky believes many young adults feel excluded or unwelcome in traditional church settings and therefore churches need to be more accepting and loving towards all individuals, including those who identify as LGBTQIA+. If churches are going to continue to exist, they will need to connect with the next generation.
Nichole Torbitzky is Associate Professor of Religion and University Chaplain at Lindenwood University in St. Charles, MO. Her current research investigates Whiteheadian notions related to Christian atonement theory. She serves as the editor for the Center for Process and Faith's Lectionary Commentary series. She also serves as editor for Lindenwood University's student research journal, the Confluence.
Website: https://www.lindenwood.edu/arts-and-humanities/human-culture-and-society/philosophy-and-religion-ba/faculty/
Instagram: Nichole Torbitzky
Twitter: @ntorbitzky
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Across American Christianity, there is a shortage of clergy, and this is exacerbated by financial struggles, housing issues, and the emotional toll of being a pastor. In this episode, Carol Howard joins the show to talk about challenges and trends in clergy health. She also explored the impact of these trends on younger clergy and the need for the church to invest in clergy support. Howard also shares from her book Wounded Pastors, which explores the concept of Family Systems Theory and its application in helping pastors and clergy navigate challenges and dynamics within their congregations. The conversation also touches on the topics of forgiveness, rewriting personal stories, and the potential for post-traumatic growth in the church.
Rev. Carol Howard (@CarolHoward) is the award-winning author of several books, including Wounded Pastors: Navigating Burnout, Finding Healing and Discerning the Future of your Ministry (Westminster John Knox) and Healing Spiritual Wounds: Reconnecting with a Loving God after Experiencing a Hurtful Church (HarperOne). Carol is a frequent contributor to books, websites, magazines, and journals. She was a regular columnist at the Christian Century where her blog was hosted. She’s a Presbyterian (USA) minister in a village church outside of New York City.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Its no secret that the church as an institution in America is undergoing great change, and with it the role and function of clergy. In this episode, Ted Smith joins the show to talk about the history of formal theological education in the United States, the transition from the standing order to voluntary associations as the primary sociological gathering model, the professionalization of ministry, and the emergence of denominations as we know them. He also talks about the downsides of the professionalization such as clergy being lonely, isolated, and out of touch. Ted also speaks about growing trends such as Christian leaders being formed outside of professional education, smaller and more homogenous denominations, and Mega-churches and micro-churches.
Ted Smith is Charles Howard Candler Professor of Divinity and Associate Dean of Faculty at Emory University’s Candler School of Theology. He holds degrees from Duke University, Oxford University, Princeton Theological Seminary, and Emory University. He is the author of three books: The New Measures,Weird John Brown, and, most recently, The End of Theological Education, which reviewers have hailed as a generational landmark in reflection on theological education. He has edited books on sexuality and ordination, contemporary issues in preaching, and economic inequality. Smith also serves as director of Theological Education between the Times and the editor of the series of books that have grown out of that project. Ordained to ministry in the Presbyterian Church (USA), Smith served as pastor to two congregations in upstate New York prior to beginning his doctoral studies.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
So, you're trying to sustain a church for continued health... while also disrupting the status quo... impossible, right? Not so, says Pastor and author Doug Powe. In this episode, we talk about his book Sustaining While Disrupting, emphasizing the importance of thinking like an outsider, taking risks, and putting aside convictions. Doug makes his case from the stories of the early church in Acts. He also addresses the challenges of navigating disputes in the church, particularly regarding issues like women pastors and LGBT inclusion. Doug advises honoring convictions while allowing for change over time. He emphasizes the need for clarity in mission and the reasons behind initiatives, while also pointing out why change fails and the importance of authentic conversations.
Frederick Douglas Powe, Jr. is the Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and the James C. Logan Professor of Evangelism at Wesley Theological Seminary. Dr. Powe is an ordained elder in the Baltimore/Washington Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. His newest co-authored book, Sustaining While Disrupting: The Challenge of Congregational Innovation, was the number newly released church leadership and administration book. Another recent book, The Adept Church: Navigating Between a Rock and a Hard Place, was the number one newly released church growth book just a month after being released. Dr. Powe is also known for his work in Wesleyan evangelism with titles like, Transforming Community: The Wesleyan Way to Missional Congregations and Transforming Evangelism: The Wesleyan Way of Sharing Faith, both co-authored with H. Henry Knight III. Dr. Powe is a forerunner in African American evangelism, a few of his contributions include: Not Safe for Church: The Ten Commandments for Reaching New Generations, co-authored with Rev. Jasmine Smothers, and New Wine, New Wineskins: How African American Congregations Can Reach New Generations. He holds a Ph.D. in Systematic Theology from Emory University (2004), a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology (1998), and a Bachelor of Arts from Ohio Wesleyan University (1987).
Doug's socials are:
Twitter/X: @fdpjr
Facebook: @frederick.powe
Lewis Center socials:
Twitter/X: @lewisleadership
Facebook: @lewisleadership
Instagram: @lewiscenterleadership
YouTube: @lewisleadership
https://www.churchleadership.com.
Previous Episode with Doug:
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/doug-powe-describes-the-adept-church/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Churches and individuals are facing a time of division and uncertainty, as we recover from the Covid-19 pandemic, political discord, and changing beliefs about God. In this episode, Mark Feldmeir delves into the realities of leading a progressive congregation in a conservative community, the innovative responses to the pandemic, and the denominational shifts within Methodism. Mark also shares insights from his book, 'Life After God,' which explores finding faith when one can't believe anymore. He discusses the need for a new way of thinking about God and the importance of embracing the complexities of life.
Mark Feldmeir is the author of five books, including his latest work, Life after God: Finding Fath When You Can’t Believe Anymore. He has served on the Adjunct Faculty at Claremont School of Theology, where he has taught homiletics, and has spoken at various conferences throughout the country on topics ranging from preaching, politics, and pop culture. He currently serves as Lead Pastor at St. Andrew United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, Colorado. Mark received his B.A. in Religious Studies from the University of California, Riverside (1990), and his M.Div. from Claremont School of Theology (1993). Mark enjoys cycling, skiing, fly fishing, and camping in his 2002 VW Eurovan.
Previous Episode with Mark:
https://www.podbean.com/eas/pb-w4uw5-f882a9
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this episode, Ryan Panzer and Jake Doberenz join Loren and Martha to discuss the use of artificial intelligence (AI) in the church. They share examples of how they are currently using AI in ministry. They also discuss the potential and possibilities of AI, including its role as a tool for helping to articulate faith stories and as a productivity booster. The conversation also highlights the importance of preaching and teaching, the caution of embracing AI without replacing human gifts, and the importance of nuance and ethics. They also address the fears and concerns surrounding AI in the church, such as job displacement and the potential for AI to replace human creativity and relationships, utilizing the theological lens of the Tower of Babel and understandings humans as simultaneously saint and sinner. Finally, together they explore the question of consciousness and the ascription of personhood to AI while calling for a continued conversation to discern the way forward.
Jake Doberenz is a polymath, identifying as a writer, teacher, minister, and creative thinker. Jake founded Theophany Media, a Christian education company exploring how creativity and technology can help the Church teach the Bible better. He holds two degrees from Oklahoma Christian University: A Master of Theological Studies and a Bachelor’s in Bible with a minor in Communication Studies. His published work includes plays, non-fiction books, and novels, and he has produced podcasts such as Creatively Christian. Get the first chapter of his new book here:
https://open.substack.com/pub/jakedoberenz/p/a-simple-theology-of-artificial-intelligence?r=ndnvw&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Ryan Panzer is the author of “Grace and Gigabytes: Being Church in a Tech-Shaped Culture” (Fortress Press, 2020) and "The Holy and the Hybrid: Navigating the Church's Digital Reformation" (Fortress Press, 2022). Ryan has spent his career in the worlds of church leadership and technology. He received his M.A. from Luther Seminary while simultaneously working for Google. Ryan serves as a learning and leadership development professional in the technology industry and as a speaker and writer on digital technology in the church. Ryan also serves as the Theologian in Residence at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Madison, WI. For more writings and resources, visit www.ryanpanzer.com.
- On using AI purposefully: https://churchanew.org/blog/posts/michael-chan-ryan-panzer-ai-for-ministry
- On the challenges of using AI for ministry: https://www.ryanpanzer.com/post/finding-sacred-spaces-in-a-digital-age
- On practical uses for AI (preaching, communications, etc: https://www.ryanpanzer.com/post/churches-and-content-how-to-write-better-prompts-for-chatgpt
Previous Episodes with Ryan & Jake:
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/jake-doberenz-on-working-for-a-church-that-doesn-t-fit-your-theology/
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/the-holy-and-the-hybrid-with-ryan-panzer/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
In this conversation, Liz Cooledge Jenkins shares her journey from growing up in a Mainline Protestant church to exploring conservative evangelicalism and eventually returning to Mainline Protestant communities. She discusses the reasons why many people leave mainline contexts for evangelicalism and the challenges she faced within evangelical churches. She shares insights from her book, 'Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity from Evangelicalism,' and highlights the need for churches and leaders to practice humility and address patriarchal structures in worship and theology. Liz also discusses the importance of inclusive worship, genuine representation, and the importance of including diverse voices. She encourages male pastors and leaders to actively support women in ministry.
Liz Cooledge Jenkins is a writer, preacher, former college campus minister, and the author of Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women’s Humanity from Evangelicalism. She writes at the intersections of faith, feminism, and social justice, and her work can be found at places like Sojourners and The Christian Century—as well as her new Substack, Growing Into Kinship, and her blog at lizcooledgejenkins.com. Liz lives in the Seattle area with her husband and their black cat Athena, where she enjoys hiking, swimming, attempting to grow vegetables, and drinking a lot of tea.
Social media (Instagram): @lizcoolj and @postevangelicalprayers
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Future Christian Team:
Loren Richmond Jr. – Host & Executive Producer
Martha Tatarnic – Guest Host / Co-Host
Paul Romig–Leavitt – Executive Producer
Danny Burton - Producer
Dennis Sanders – Producer
Is your church seeking to advocate for affordable housing? In this episode, Jessica Dominguez joins the show to talk about her work helping churches develop land for housing and what churches can do, big and small to make a difference. Beginning with a 20-year career in public education to a pivotal role in shaping Denver's housing priorities, Jessica recounts the moment that ignited her mission to combat housing insecurity, a call that led her to significant contributions in the housing sector. As the co-director of housing development at Mile High Ministries, Jessica empowers churches to convert underutilized land into affordable housing through the Abundant Ground program, while also co-owning Love Thy Neighbor, a real estate group with a mission to resist displacement.
Jessica Dominguez is a Teacher, Faith-Led Affordable Housing Development Advisor and Advocate. In 2019, Jessica took a leave from a twenty-year career teaching public school to research affordable housing solutions and ended up helping to shape the City’s housing priorities as a member of Denver’s Housing Advisory Committee. During that time, she was named one of Denverite’s Who’s Next in Housing. She is a graduate of the Real Estate Diversity Initiative through Urban Land Institute and helped lead the Congregational Land Campaign of the Interfaith Alliance of Colorado. Currently, Jessica serves as the Co-Director of Housing Development at Mile High Ministries. In this role, she provides churches with education and technical assistance through the Abundant Ground program, empowering them to transform underutilized land into affordable housing solutions.
Additionally, Jessica is a co-owner of Love Thy Neighbor, a mission-driven real estate group dedicated to resisting displacement and fostering affordable housing opportunities. Her commitment to addressing housing challenges has made her a driving force in creating positive change within communities.
https://milehighministries-bloom.kindful.com/e/march-learning-lunch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e65lryK-_mA Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-dominguez-04753411a/
Abundant Ground: https://milehighmin.org/abundant-ground/
Facebook MHM: https://www.facebook.com/MileHighMin
Facebook Love Thy Neighbor: https://www.facebook.com/lovethyneighborrealestate
Love Thy Neighbor: https://www.ltnhomes.com/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this conversation, Dave Boden discusses the importance of reaching people beyond the church and the need for a fresh approach to evangelism and discipleship. He emphasizes the concept of belonging before believing and the power of hospitality in creating a sense of community. Dave also highlights the limitations of logic-based arguments and the importance of experiential learning in the process of faith. He encourages Christians to connect with people where they are and to show and tell the message of the gospel through their lives, emphasizing the importance of stirring spiritual curiosity and helping young people understand their identity and purpose. Boden also highlights the need to re-enchant and re-apologetic people.
Dave Boden is a creative pioneer and educator. He is the executive director of Grace Foundation, a Christian ethos charity that helps transform young people’s lives through holistic education. Dave was previously the lead pastor in a local church for over a decade and has a well-established background in Christian ministry working on local, national and international projects that have benefited the next generation. He also co-created Kleer Series, a media ministry which helps start spiritual conversations with young people all over the world. A relentless fan of Marvel movies and lover of an occasional muddy bike ride in the English countryside, Dave lives, works and writes in the West Midlands, England with his wife, Leah and their four children. Together, they are members of a relational network called Skylark International and are part of Life Church, Bedworth.
Boden is the author of Parallel Faith: Walking alongside others on their journey to Christ and Like or Follow: What every teenager needs to decide about Jesus.
Substack is daveboden.substack.com
Website is www.daveboden.uk
Instagram: @daveboden2
Twitter: @davemboden
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Pastoral ministry seems harder than ever. Data shows pastors are increasingly feeling burnt out while churches are also less inclined to want to change. What is a stressed pastor to do? In this episode, recorded at Phillips Theological Seminary during the Remind and Renew conference, Kinsie Tate, a licensed counselor and founder of Restore Clergy, discusses the challenges clergy face, including burnout exacerbated by the pandemic, and the common stress responses of competing, avoiding, and accommodating. She emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and resilience for clergy to effectively address personal and systemic issues. Tate also reflects on the limitations of virtual interactions for connection, the alignment of beliefs with lived experiences, and the necessity for clergy to process emotions healthily. She advocates for intentional reflection, community support, and the potential for positive change and hope within the church.
Rev. Kinsie Tate is the Founder and Executive Director of Restore Clergy, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to support clergy with programs that improve wellness to cultivate faithful and sustainable ministry. She is a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor and has a private practice where she has facilitated growth and transformation for clients for over a decade. She completed her Master of Divinity at Phillips Theological Seminary and was ordained in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in 2007. She served as an associate minister for 3 years prior to returning to complete her Master of Education in Applied Behavioral Studies at Oklahoma City University in 2010. She became a Licensed Professional Counselor in Oklahoma in 2012 and a Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor in California in 2021. She was certified as a Truce Coach in 2022. She lives in California with her spouse, who is United Methodist Clergy serving in a local congregation, and their 3 school age children.
FB: https://www.facebook.com/restoreclergy/
Insta: https://www.instagram.com/restoreclergy/
website: www.restoreclergy.com
Scott Thumma episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/understanding-the-impact-of-societal-changes-on-congregational-dynamics-insights-from-dr-scott-thumma/
Irie Lynn Session episode: https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/womanist-ministry-dr-irie-session-talks-preaching-the-black-church-tradition-and-womanist-theology/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this episode, Rev. Dr. Irie Lynne Session, co-pastor of The Gathering Experience, a Womanist church in Texas, joins the show to talk about Womanism and how it has profoundly influenced her interpretation of scripture and her methodology in preaching. Recorded at Phillips Theological Seminary during the Remind and Renew conference, Dr. Irie discusses her transition from Churches of Christ to the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), her spiritual practices, and her calling to ministry. She highlights how womanism has shaped her approach to scripture, informed her theological perspective, and shaped her preaching. She also tells the story of the founding of her church, which emphasizes Womanist preaching and theology within the Black religious tradition.
Rev. Dr. Irie Lynne Session was raised in New York City, and now resides in Cedar Hill, Texas a suburb of Dallas. She's the proud mother of India Liana Session. Dr. Irie holds a B.S. in Social Work from Oklahoma Christian University, an M.Div. with a Certificate in Black Church Studies from Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University, and a Doctor of Ministry from Colgate Rochester Crozier Divinity School, specializing in Transformative Leadership and Prophetic Preaching. She's an ordained minister with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and CEO of DreamBIG Coaching & Consulting. Dr. Irie is currently the Co-Pastor of The Gathering, A Womanist Church in Dallas, Texas. Dr. Irie is co-author of, The Gathering, A Womanist Church: Origins, Stories, Sermons, & Litanies. She is also author of Badass Women of the Bible and, Murdered Souls, Resurrected Lives. Her latest Journal article is titled, “Sawubona in a Pandemic: Black Women, Embodied Ecclesiology, and Sacred Spaces in Cyberspace.”
Facebook: @revdririe
IG: Revdririe / SheRev_Style
Twitter: @revdririe
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Do you believe you can accomplish what God has placed on your heart? This is the key question Dea Jenkins helps pastors and spiritual leaders through, encouraging them to trust their heart and trust the process, letting go of the results. In this conversation, Dea also addresses the challenges of harmful practices within church institutions and emphasizes the importance of relationships and listening to God, oneself, and the community for guidance. She also shares how she coaches spiritual leaders in discerning God's call and living into the contributions each individual can make to their communities.
Dea Jenkins is an award winning interdisciplinary artist originally from Houston, Texas. Dea's art practice spans multiple fields, including visual art, performance, and film. She has exhibited nationally and internationally, and is currently developing multiple multimedia projects.
As the recipient of three fellowships and multiple artist grants, Dea has fused her art practice with a deep love for research. She has a dual master's degree from Fuller Seminary with an emphasis in Theology and the Arts.
In addition to her art practice, Dea is also an independent curator and the Director of the Inbreak Collective. Her love for creating expands beyond her individual practice to include crafting spaces for others to explore their own creative journey.
@dea.artist
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Chapters
07:40 Art and Spirituality in the Church
13:55 Working with Spiritual and Church Leaders
19:13 Commitment to the Big C Church
23:20 Discerning God's Call
31:43 Supporting Leaders in Ministry
35:28 The Importance of Rest and Replenishment
37:01 Not Forgetting the Gift of the Pandemic
39:09 The Work of Cyclical in Supporting Church Leaders
42:29 Closing Questions
Since Covid, most churches have whole-heartedly embraced digital. But what are the effects of the digital age on discipleship, community, and understanding the Bible? In this episode, Jay Kim talks about the intersection of digital culture and the church, emphasizing the importance of maintaining analog, embodied practices within the church to foster transformation, despite the informative nature of digital mediums. Kim describes the sermon as a relational exchange rather than mere content delivery, highlighting the role of the Holy Spirit in the act of preaching. The discussion also touches on the secular ideology of the "imminent frame" and the need to reclaim a sense of enchantment and curiosity in faith. Jay Kim also shares some practical analog ideas for engaging with scripture, such as reading it aloud, to counteract the individualistic approaches.
Jay Y. Kim serves as the lead pastor at WestGate Church in the Silicon Valley and on the leadership team of the ReGeneration Project. He has experienced the digital church in all its splendor and writes about it in his two books, Analog Church and Analog Christian. Kim's writing has been featured in Christianity Today, The Gospel Coalition, Missio Alliance, and Relevant Magazine. He lives in Silicon Valley with his wife and two children.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
It's predicted by 2030, an estimated 100,000 church buildings will either be sold or repurposed. With this impending reality, Mark Elsdon asks a key question--will these buildings be gone...for good? In this conversation, Mark compares this shift to the decline of video rental stores and underscores the need for purposeful action in repurposing these spaces. Mark highlights the community impact and explores alternatives to selling, like donations or social enterprises, drawing from his positive experience with property redevelopment at University ministry center. The conversation also touches on the value of preserving sacred spaces amidst these changes.
Mark Elsdon lives and works at the intersection of money and meaning as an entrepreneur, nonprofit executive, author, and speaker. He is the author of,We Aren't Broke, about the use of faith-based property and investments for social enterprise and impact investing. Mark’s new book, Gone for Good? Negotiating the Coming Wave of Church Property Transition is available now.
Mark is cofounder of RootedGood, which supports catalytic and innovative church leaders working on property development, money and mission alignment, and social enterprise; executive director at Pres House and Pres House Apartments on the University of Wisconsin's Madison campus; principal at Threshold Sacred Development; and past president of the board of directors for Working Capital for Community Needs, an impact investing fund that provides microfinance funding to the working poor in Latin America.
Mark has a BA in Psychology from the University of California - Berkeley, a Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary, and an MBA from the University of Wisconsin School of Business. He is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church, USA, and lives in Madison, Wisconsin. Mark is an avid cyclist and considers it a good year when he rides more miles on his bike than he drives in his car.
Previous Episode:
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/mark-elsdon-on-why-we-arent-broke/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this episode, Dr. Scott Thumma discusses the evolution of congregational life and denominational shifts, drawing from 30 years of research. He reflects on his personal faith journey and the rise of megachurches, noting their advantages and the challenges smaller congregations face. The conversation also explores the growth of non-denominational churches and the decreasing importance of denominational identity. Dr. Thumma emphasizes the necessity for congregations to adapt to societal changes and technology, especially highlighted by the pandemic's impact on religious practices. The episode concludes with insights into the Hartford Institute for Religion Research's work on contemporary religious trends.
Scott L. Thumma is Professor of Sociology of Religion and director of the Hartford Institute for Religion Research at Hartford International University, Hartford, Connecticut. He has published numerous articles, research reports, and chapters on religious life in addition to co-authoring three books, The Other 80 Percent, Beyond Megachurch Myths, and Gay Religion.
He has researched and written on megachurches, evangelicalism, gay religious life, congregational studies, the rise of nondenominational churches, and the changing religious landscape. Scott is the Principal Investigator for 5-year Lilly Endowment grant to study the impact of the pandemic on churches.
He co-leads the Faith Communities Today national research project and has conducted national studies of megachurches and nondenominational churches. He is also a member of the team that recently conducted the 2020 US Religion Census of US congregations.
Scott will also be a guest at Remind & Renew, a conference hosted by Phillips Seminary January 24-26, along with Dr. Irie Lynne Session and musical guest Carrie Newcomer.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, guest host Martha Tartarnic sits down with Justin Anthony, the rector of Chingford (UK) parish, to delve into the nuances of leadership within the church and why our pervasive language around leadership is actually ill-defined and problematic. The conversation aims to invite careful and considered thought about how we talk about ministry in the church and why the language we use has in some important sense failed our faith communities.
Justin Anthony is Rector of Chingford parish, and was until recently the Deputy Director of the Anglican Centre in Rome. He has worked in Alexandria, Virginia (as Dean of Students at a theological college), Canterbury (as Rector of a parish in the city), Oxford (as precentor of Christ Church Cathedral), and Cirencester (as curate and team vicar in the parish). He was born in Singapore, and educated there, in Germany, North Yorkshire, the LSE and Oxford. He has written three books as a sole author and contributed to others on issues of church life, ministry, and culture.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this episode, Martha Tatarnic talks with Michael Graham, co-author of The Great De-Churching about his journey from a fundamentalist upbringing to a more gospel-centered faith. Graham shares his transition from a focus on end times and culture wars to a tradition that emphasizes the core of the gospel and its implications for life. He discusses the importance of Bible study, healthy discipleship, and interdenominational cooperation, reflecting on his own spiritual practices and the vitality of engaging with non-believers. The conversation also explores the unique religious landscape of the United States, the church's role in society, and the effects of online worship.
Michael Graham is program director for The Keller Center. He is also the executive producer and writer of As In Heaven and has written a forthcoming book entitled The Great Dechurching. He received his MDiv at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando. He is a member at Orlando Grace Church. He is married to Sara, and they have two kids.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Guest host Martha Tatarnic leads a conversation with Dr. Amy Frykholm, senior editor at the Christian Century magazine. They discuss the role of media in serving the church, their personal faith journeys, and the mission of the magazine. The conversation also covers the redesign of the magazine, the themes of the Future Christian Podcast, and Dr. Frykholm's hopes for the future of Christianity.
Amy Frykholm is a senior editor at The Christian Century magazine. Her most recent book is Wild Woman: A Footnote, the Desert, and My Quest for an Elusive Saint. She hosts the In Search Of podcast. www.amyfrykholm.com; @amyfryk.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In the final episode of Season 14 of the Future Christian Podcast, guest host/co-host Martha Tatarnic joins Loren Richmond Jr. to reflect on the season's highlights and broader themes. The conversation includes a discussion on the church's role in a secular age, why sacred space matters, and the importance of maintaining wonder and awe in faith. They also touch on the grief of church closures and the future of theological education. And, in this season of Advent, they discuss the importance of Advent traditions. Stay tuned for the upcoming "Martha season," a special run of episodes over winter break hosted by Martha Tatarnic.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Historically, the church has a tendency to colonize as a means to achieve growth. To break that dynamic, new models need to emerge. Enter DisciplesNEXT, a methodology from Rev. Dr. Jose Martinez and the New Church Ministry Team of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). In this conversation, we talk about how the model emerged, how it seeks to be different from previous models, and what are the "ecclesial minimums" or "faithful marks" of what it means to be a church. He also emphasizes the importance of deep listening, dialogue, and considering diverse community inputs in shaping the future of the church.
Rev. Dr. Jose Martinez serves as the Minister for New Church Strategies for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Jose also created a ministry as an Incubate participant with the National Benevolent Association called StoryWagen. Additionally, he is co-planter of Multi Nation Christian Church, which is the largest and only Haitian Ministry in the Midwest for the Disciples of Christ and along with planting MissioKC Church. Co-vocationally, he is an endorsed Protestant Chaplain, at the 139th Airlift Wing in St. Joseph, Missouri and a chaplain with Truman Medical Center in Kansas City, Missouri. He has served in different capacities in ministry from the regional level to local congregations by bringing innovative and entrepreneurial ideas about the shifting paradigm of church. His mixture of talent, tenacity, and experience has helped him in all contexts of ministry, which was recognized by the Air National Guard in 2016 by awarding him the Samuel Stone award.
https://newchurchministry.org/introducing-impact/
https://newchurchministry.org/about/disciplesnext/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
What's the Future of Theological Education? In this episode, Rev. Ulysses Allen, the Director of Recruitment and Retention at Phillips Seminary joins the show to talk about the challenges faced by seminarians, including student loan debt and limited job opportunities. Despite these challenges, Allen highlights the importance of seminary education in providing a foundation for engaging with difficult texts, understanding oneself better, and preparing people to walk with people during their toughest life moments. Allen also talks about the various non-traditional programs and endeavors at his seminary in order to meet the changing needs of non-traditional students.
Rev. Ulysses Allen is the Director of Recruitment and Retention and Candidate for the Doctor of Ministry in Homiletics at Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, OK. He truly enjoys helping prospective students map out their journey in theological education in the Christian Tradition. His short term goal is to complete his Doctor of Ministry which has an emphasis in Homiletics by the spring of 2025. His long term goal is to continue my pursuit in higher education as a Director, start a non-profit organization geared towards athletic chaplaincy, and become a senior pastor of a church. My philosophical mantra is it's better to serve than be served. Ulysses serves on multiple non-profits boards and at his church.
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Most Pastors would agree that the American church in the midst of a crisis of decline, as lagging attendance, giving, and influence continue to cause havoc in local congregations. Yet, despite all this, Andrew Root argues the real crisis that should keep pastors up at night isn't shrinking budgets or lessening participation--rather it is the realization that for most people, even many pastors, we can live and act as if God doesn't matter and doesn't even exist. In this conversation, we talk about the three stages of secularism that have impacted American Christianity, what it means to believe that "God is God," and why the only story churches need to proclaim is God's story.
Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline, When Church Stops Working, and The Church After Innovation. Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.
Previous Episode:
https://futurechristian.podbean.com/e/andy-root/
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this episode, Dorcas Chang-Tozun joins the show to talk about her personal faith journey, her thought-provoking book Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul, and her profound insights on social activism. Dorcas passionately emphasizes the significance of acknowledging the unique experiences of sensitive individuals within the realm of activism, urging listeners to broaden their understanding of what constitutes effective social change. Furthermore, she delves into the complex interplay between anger and social transformation, sheds light on the concept of resilience, and underscores the utmost importance of self-care in sustaining one's commitment to making a difference.
Dorcas Cheng-Tozun is an award-winning writer, editor, speaker, communications consultant, and former Inc.com columnist. She is the author of multiple books including Social Justice for the Sensitive Soul: How to Change the World in Quiet Ways (June 2023). Her work has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, Christianity Today, Image Journal, and dozens of other publications in the US, Asia, and Africa. She serves as the editorial director of PAX, a Christian nonprofit dedicated to inspiring and equipping the next generation of BIPOC contemplative activists and is a high school instructor of social innovation at Valley Christian Schools. Dorcas has nearly twenty years of experience as a nonprofit and social enterprise professional. She served as the first director of communications for d.light, one of the world's leading social enterprises, and has provided communications consulting for social-benefit companies around the world. She and her entrepreneur husband have been married for eighteen years and have two young sons.
Future Christian is supported by:
Presenting Sponsor:
Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
Supporting Sponsors:
I Help Pastors Get Jobs: Use code 'futurechristian'
Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
David Emery joins the show to talk about why church structure is a significant obstacle in the church, as it can stifle the openness and potential for growth. He emphasizes the need for the structure to align with the vision and direction of the church, rather than becoming a hindrance. He also highlights the importance of theological humility and the willingness to listen. Emery also talks about his hopes for the future of Christianity, why he thinks there is a need for humility in mainline contexts, and why love and service to others continues to drive his ministry focus.
Rev. David Emery has served as Lead Pastor of Harvard Avenue Christian since March of 2020. David is a passionate preacher, compassionate pastor, and adept leader whose understanding of the Gospel and vision for the church help our congregation fulfill its mission to live and love like Jesus. David has a reputation for growing churches, reaching new people, and transforming lives in every church he has served throughout his ministry, which includes congregations in Arkansas, Texas, and Kentucky. He holds a B.A from TCU, and Master’s of Divinity from Vanderbilt. If you were to ask David what his favorite scripture passage is, he would tell you: “Whatever I’m preaching on this week!” An avid runner and multiple marathoner, when David isn’t on the trail or in the pulpit, he enjoys spending time with his wife, Teresa, and their children and grandchildren.
Future Christian is supported by:
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Phillips Seminary Join conversations that expose you to new ideas, deepen your commitment and give insights to how we can minister in a changing world.
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Rev. Gail Cafferata was heartbroken when the church she pastored closed its doors. It may have been the right decision, but it led to a million questions in her mind about her call, leadership, and future. In this episode, Gail interviews Loren about his own experience closing a church, and together they talk about some of the challenges, heartbreak, and experiences learned from their experiences, sharing wisdom from the book The Last Pastor which Gail wrote from a sociological study she conducted of mainline pastors who served a church that closed. In the book, Rev. Cafferate shares the results of her study and the hard-won lessons learned by these courageous pastors.
The Rev. Gail Cafferata, Ph.D., is a practical theologian and retired Priest Associate at The Church of the Incarnation, Santa Rosa (Episcopal). She spent 25 years as a medical sociologist in universities, the Department of Health and Human Services and Children’s Hospital, Boston before ordination in 2002. After serving a congregation for nine years before it closed, she authored The Last Pastor: Faithfully Steering a Closing Church She continues to write and consult as a Visiting Researcher at Boston University School of Theology, and is available on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/gailleecafferata/. She loves to spend time with her husband Bob and daughters and grandchildren, as well as playing in a community orchestra, birdwatching, gardening and sailing.
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this mid-season recap of the Future Christian Podcast, hosts Loren Richmond Jr. and Martha Tatarnic reflect on the topics and guests featured so far in season 14. They discuss their process for selecting guests and the podcast's focus on issues relevant to churches and pastors. They highlight themes such as church planting, reimagining church structures, and love for the church. They also discuss the importance of pastors' mental health and the need for support systems, while examining the financial aspects of church planting and uses of terms like "missional" and "missionary".
Martha Tatarnic is the lead priest of St. George’s, a thriving downtown Anglican church in St. Catharines Ontario. Martha writes a regular blog for the Anglican Church of Canada, which can be found at medium.com. She is the author of The Living Diet: A Christian Journey to Joyful Eating, an exploration of our relationship with food and our body through a Christian perspective and also her second book, Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church. Find out more about her at https://marthatatarnic.ca
Loren Richmond Jr. is a mission-driven leader with a unique combination of experience in church, nonprofits and affordable housing, holding an MBA with a Nonprofit emphasis and a Master of Divinity. As a servant leader, Loren possesses a calm, focused, and credible demeanor that empowers staff, along with a systems-driven and efficient approach to managing operations, fostering productivity even in heavy workloads. Loren's lifelong commitment to learning and diverse skill-sets enables visionary solutions to current and future organizational challenges, while his entrepreneurial approach has transformed organizations.
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Pastors and church planters need more support, but where should they look and what types of relationships should they seek? In this conversation, Pastor, church planter, and author Scott Nelson shares about the five essential relationships each ministry leader needs to have. They also discuss setting boundaries and finding the right kind of support in ministry, the redemptive nature of suffering, and the inner journey that clergy and ministers must go through. Scott emphasizes the importance of forgiveness, acceptance, and letting go of control. He encourages pastors to seek out support and not go alone.
Scott Nelson (M.Div, D.Min) is the church planter and lead pastor of Covenant Grove Church in Modesto, California. He also serves as a church planting coach and trainer, and he has spoken across the country on evangelism, discipleship formation, leadership development, and strategic planning. As part of his doctoral work, Scott performed qualitative research with dozens of church planters and coaches across the United States and Canada to find out what contributes to healthy pastoral ministry. Over and over again, the research proved that there were five types of relationships that planters and pastors needed in their lives in order to thrive in ministry. With strong Supply Lines, Scott discovered, pastors are protected from burnout and have the support they need for bigger dreams, wiser decisions, and healthier results.
Facebook – Scott.R.Nelson
Instagram – 2penny_scott
LinkedIn – scottnelson5
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
How can churches foster innovation and reinvent their ministry in today's changing world? Meghan Hatcher, the Director of the Innovation Laboratory at the Center for Youth Ministry Training, joins the pod to share ideas. Meghan talks about her personal experience of taking a break and returning to the church. She also explains the purpose and approach of the Innovation Lab, which aims to help faith communities reinvent ministry models across the whole church. Meghan emphasizes the importance of creating psychological safety and fostering inclusivity within churches. She also discusses measuring ministry effectiveness, the value of buy-in and democratized leadership, and supporting churches dealing with affiliation challenges.
Meghan Hatcher currently serves as the director of the Innovation Laboratory, an initiative of the Center for Youth Ministry Training (CYMT). She holds a Bachelor of Journalism and Master of Science in Sustainable Development & Applied Sociology from the University of Missouri, and a Master of Divinity with a specialization in community engagement from Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C. The thread that runs throughout Meghan’s academic and professional experiences is the power of story to knit communities together around a collective vision. She is a graduate of The Life Stories Institute in Washington, D.C., and has a tremendous passion for guiding individuals to reflect on their personal stories and the timeless stories of faith. Meghan has served rural, urban, and suburban congregational settings in the areas of pastoral leadership, innovative ministry development, youth ministry, new church development, and community engagement. Meghan makes her home in Austin with her spouse Corey.
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Do you remember that viral post about pastoral ministry? In this episode, we welcome the author of that piece, Rev. Alexander Lang, an ordained pastor and author. Martha Tatarnic hosts the conversation, and they discuss Lang's background and key points from his article, especially the emotional toll of being a pastor and the challenges of maintaining a declining institution. They also explore the challenges pastors face in navigating their personal emotions while fulfilling their pastoral duties. Lang believes the church is currently searching for its soul, having lost sight of what truly matters. His hope for the future is that the church can embrace God's unconditional love and return to the work of the gospel.
Rev. Alexander Lang is an ordained pastor in the Presbyterian Church (USA) who worked in church ministry for 20 years. Alex is the author of Restorative Faith, a book that recasts Christianity in a new light for the 21st century skeptic. Alex also hosts the Restorative Faith Podcast, which blends history, science, culture and scripture into thought provoking episodes. Alex’s interests include independent film, electronic music and deep conversation with people who question, doubt and want to dig into the most complex issues we face as humans. When he’s not working on books or the Restorative Faith Movement, Alex enjoys spending time with his wife and two sons.
https://religionnews.com/2023/09/11/meet-the-pastor-behind-that-quitting-the-church-essay/?fbclid=IwAR0kjMgf5y1WLKg8Fw2FXy9hN3Wah8OrxH9ClDWzvjswgtJ7dc-5elg0jhU
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
As more churches explore the opportunity of affordable housing, Rev. Melissa St. Clair shares the journey of developing her church's property. In this episode, we talk about the dream for Heartside Hill and its evolution over time, fundraising efforts and partnerships for the development of Heartside Hill, and how they built relationships with existing neighbors and gained community involvement. Melissa also shares the importance of connecting the project to the church's mission while also offering advice for pastors and churches in similar situations of transitioning church land.
Rev. Melissa St. Clair has served Heart of the Rockies Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Fort Collins, CO, since January 2013. She was called to succeed the congregation's founding pastor, Jeff Wright. After two years of serving as Associate Minister, she was installed as Senior Minister in January 2015. Melissa was ordained in 2008 at her home church, St. John’s United Church of Christ, Chambersburg, PA, where her immediate and extended family still reside. Her Master of Divinity is from Eden Theological Seminary (St. Louis, MO).
Melissa currently serves as Moderator for the Central Rocky Mountain Region and has previously served as chair of the Board of Stewards for the Center for Faith and Giving. She is an alumna of the Bethany Fellows and a graduate of Leadership Northern Colorado. She currently serves on the Leadership Team of the Ecumenical Circle of the Bethany Fellows. Melissa loves running the trails and camping the mountains of Colorado. She and her spouse, Ben, recently moved to the foothills of the Front Range where they savor the mountain views and the gravel road that gets them there. Her passion for affordable and attainable housing has grown out of their love for where they live and a desire to live in a sustainable, inclusive community.
Laura Stephens-Reed is the clergy coach Melissa references in the show. She helps clergy and congregations navigate transitions with faithfulness and curiosity and can be contacted at www.laurastephensreed.com.
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These days, it seems like everyone is walking away from church. Not so for Ally Henny, who discusses in this episode the potential of the church and why she hasn't given up on it, despite its flaws and challenges. She believes that the church has a unique role in providing a sense of community and support, especially for marginalized groups. Ally also emphasizes the importance of the church in addressing social justice issues and making a positive difference in the world. Looking towards the future, Ally suggests that the church should focus on serving communities and actively engaging with the needs of society. She believes that the church has the potential to be a force for good and transformation, but it requires intentional action and a willingness to listen and learn from others.
Ally Henny is a writer, speaker, advocate-minister, and vice president of The Witness: A Black Christian Collective, an organization committed to encouraging, engaging, and empowering Black Christians toward liberation from racism. She completed her MDiv from Fuller Seminary with an emphasis in race, cultural identity, and reconciliation, and she hopes to lead a church someday. Ally has been leading conversations about race on her social media and blog, The Armchair Commentary, since 2014, and her posts reach millions each month. She is a proud Chicago Southsider.
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
What is the role of restlessness in our life of faith? In this episode, Casey Tygrett joins the pod to talk about how suffering can be a teacher, the changing images of God, and the impact of the pandemic on spirituality. Casey emphasizes the importance of seeking guidance from spiritual directors or counselors and encourages listeners to embrace restlessness as an opportunity for growth. Casey also touches on the shifting dynamics in churches during the pandemic and the concept of purpose and trust in God.
Casey Tygrett is an author and spiritual director living in the Chicago area. He oversees the spiritual direction practice at Soul Care (www.soulcare.com), and is the author of three books including The Practice of Remembering: Discovering the Place of Memories In Our Spiritual Life and The Gift of Restlessness: A Spirituality for Unsettled Seasons. He is also the host of the “Restlessness is a Gift” podcast. Casey’s passion is helping people pursue Jesus’ way of spiritual transformation in the midst of everyday circumstances. You can find more information about and resources from Casey on his website: www.caseytygrett.com or on social media (@caseytygrett).
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Craig Greenfield joins the show to talk about his journey of unpacking his cultural baggage and seeing the gospel through new eyes while living in Cambodia. He emphasizes the importance of communal practices in his faith, particularly in his Christian community in Vancouver. Craig also discusses his book "Subversive Mission" and reframes the roles of apostles, prophets, and evangelists as catalysts, allies, and seekers. He highlights the importance of cultural understanding and local ownership in community transformation.
Social entrepreneur, activist and author, Craig Greenfield is passionate about God’s heart for the world’s most vulnerable. Craig is the founder and director of Alongsiders International, a fast-growing movement of young Christians reaching the world’s poorest children. A storyteller and inspirational speaker, Craig’s passion is to amplify the voice of the poor, communicating God’s heart for the least in churches, conferences and colleges around the world. Craig is happily married to Nay, a Cambodian-New Zealander and they have two young children: Jayden and Micah.
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In times of uncertainty and change, we already have everything within us to transform and adapt, says Dr. Marcia McFee, a professor, worship designer, author, preacher, and ritual artist. In this episode, Dr. McFee talks about the connection between worship and justice and her concept of a "metamorphosis moment" in the post-pandemic transition. Dr. McFee emphasizes the importance of curiosity, imagination, and adaptability in shaping the future of the church. She also explores the need for flexible worship options, reimagining church spaces, and integrating theology and symbolism into physical and virtual sanctuaries.
Dr. Marcia McFee is a professor, worship designer, author, preacher and ritual artist. Drawing on a first career in professional dance and musical theater and equipped with a Master's in Theology and a PhD in Liturgical Studies and Ethics, she understands the role of any worship artist in the church as that of creating extraordinary portals through which communities journey with the Spirit. She is the author of The Worship Workshop, Spiritual Adventures in the Snow, and most recently Think Like a Filmmaker: Sensory-Rich Worship for Unforgettable Messages. Find out more about her Worship Design Studio liturgical resources, Elevation Retreat, and Ireland pilgrimage.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Future Christian is supported by:
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
Geoff Mitchell joins the pod to discuss his experiences in leading and guiding churches, offering insights into the challenges and opportunities within the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) denomination. Geoff emphasizes the importance of creating vibrant and transformative churches that are deeply rooted in the power of the gospel. He also explores the unique aspects of leading churches within this denomination and how they contribute to the overall mission of spreading the message of Christ.
Geoff Mitchell is Senior Minister at Lindenwood Christian Church, where his goal is to help people discover a life that does more than leave them exhausted and disillusioned. A native of Kentucky, Geoff grew up on the Mississippi River in Keokuk, Iowa. He spent 13 years in Texas, earning a Bachelor of Arts in Religion and Master of Divinity from Texas Christian University. He is currently working on his dissertation to complete to his Doctor of Ministry. He has served churches in Fort Worth and Keokuk. He has also started two new congregations, in Aledo, Texas and suburban Chicago.
As a note to listeners, this episode was recorded live, in person at the conference hall of the General Assembly of the Christian Church, Disciples of Christ.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Future Christian is supported by:
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this special episode of the Future Christian Podcast, recorded live from the General Assembly of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Loren Richmond Jr is joined by guest Dennis Sanders to delve into the current state of the denomination and the unique challenges faced by local congregations.
Together, they explore the pressing need to support and sustain existing congregations, recognizing the vital role they play in today's society. The discussion also delves into recent updates to the denomination's bylaws, highlighting the importance of staying informed and engaged with the evolving landscape of the church.
Dennis and Loren also touch on the topic of incorporating pop songs into worship services, examining the potential benefits and challenges of bridging contemporary culture with traditional practices. They emphasize the significance of prayer and theology in guiding congregations towards a deeper understanding of their faith and the role of the church in advancing the gospel.
Throughout the conversation, the importance of dialogue, relationships, and understanding is underscored as essential tools for navigating divisive issues within the church. Loren expresses his concern about declining numbers and the need for a compelling narrative to revitalize the denomination, sparking a thought-provoking reflection on the future of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Future Christian is supported by:
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Torn Curtain Arts is a non-profit ministry that works with worship leaders, creatives, and churches to help avoid burnout, love their work, and realize their full creative potential.
In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, Loren Richmond Jr. welcomes guest Martha Titanic, an Anglican priest and author. They discuss various topics including the importance of diverse perspectives, the role of social media in engaging younger generations, the tension between community care and church growth, and the need for discernment and prayer when navigating the future.
Throughout the episode, Loren and Martha mentioned several impactful conversations they had with various guests. From the insights shared by authors like Ferguson and Packard to practical advice on bi-vocational ministry from Eric Hoke, it's clear that the Future Christian Podcast is a treasure trove of wisdom and inspiration. The episode ends with a powerful message of hope and the transformative power of the gathered body of Christ. Despite the challenges within the church and the polarization in society, Loren and Martha encourage us to have faith and work
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The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
With declining church attendance and continued budget tightening, more and more pastors are struggling to earn what they need through a church job alone. During the conversation, Eric Hoke provides valuable insights on career paths that pastors can explore outside of the church. He advises pastors to tailor their resumes to the job they are applying for, highlighting their transferable skills and experiences. Eric emphasizes the importance of co-vocational ministry and hopes to see more churches mobilized and maximized to go beyond mission together. As a co-vocational church planter himself, Eric understands the challenges and opportunities that come with balancing ministry and a secular job. He encourages pastors to embrace the co-vocational model and leverage their skills and experiences to make a positive impact in both the church and the marketplace.
Eric Hoke is a Covocational Church Planter and Proven Marketplace Professional specializing in Staffing & Corporate Training. He has worked with thousands of eager career changers from around the world including Church Planters, Missional Church Leaders and Pastors transitioning from ministry to break into the Corporate World to sustain their ministries. With a 15+ years of ministry experience, a Masters of Arts in Biblical Literature and a 3 year fellowship with Redeemer City to City, Eric understands Pastors and what it takes to lead a church in the modern world. A sought after international speaker, he has trained over 100K+ professionals from brands like Uber, American Express, Moderna, and Salesforce and is widely regarded in the corporate world. His insights have been featured on podcasts, online and in print on platforms like Relevant Magazine, NewBreed Training and his NYC Church Plant story is featured in the book Next Wave: Discovering the 21st Century Church. As a certified Master Coach, he can help any Pastor with the problem of how-to-rebrand confusion and break into the Corporate World to supplement their income and build a ministry of sustainability for their families.
https://www.ihelppastorsgetjobs.com/
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Reverend Dr. Juan Sarmiento, Executive Presbyter of the San Fernando Presbytery, joins the podcast to talk about his role and perspective on clergy burnout. He also discusses his faith journey and spiritual practices, the challenges of being a clergy member, and the importance of recognizing the value of institutions. The conversation emphasizes the need for humility, openness to new ideas, and respectful dialogue within the church.
Juan J. Sarmiento serves as executive presbyter of the San Fernando Presbytery. In his role, Juan provides pastoral and strategic leadership to a growing network of congregations and ministries associated with the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A) in the Northwest region of Los Angeles. Born in Venezuela and ordained in Brazil, he has been in ministry and nonprofit leadership for more than three decades. Juan's graduate studies include programs at Fuller, San Francisco, Columbia, and Louisville theological seminaries. He has been active in helping strengthen church and leadership development movements in four continents.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
What if the goal of the Christian life isn't how we behave or even how we believe, but how we love? In this episode, Jessie Cruickshank joins the show to talk about discipleship, head-knowledge vs. heart-knowledge, and why facts don't produce transformation. In the conversation, she shares why churches needed to be emphasizing relational discipleship making and community building in order to create lasting disciples of Jesus.
Jessie Cruickshank holds an M.Ed. from Harvard in mind, brain, and education. She is an ordained minister and a nationally recognized expert in disciplemaking and the neuroscience of transformation. She has spent two decades applying neuroeducation research to discipleship, ministry training, experiential education, and organization development. Jessie is respected globally as a leader in missiological thought and a church and denominational consultant and is the founder of [Who]ology. Jessie lives and adventures with her family in Colorado.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In this episode, Rev. Dr. David Anderson Hooker, founder and principal of Counter Stories Consulting, joins the pod to discuss the power of narrative. Dr. Hooker shares his background in mediation, conflict transformation, peace building, and trauma healing, and how he uses narrative approaches to envision a shared future that incorporates everyone. The conversation also touches on the importance of understanding the root problem and creating a context for healthier habits, as well as examining the narratives and stories that shape congregational spaces.
David Anderson Hooker PhD, JD, M. Div. is the Founder and Principal Narrator for CounterStories Consulting, llc. CounterStories engages as a conversation and visioning partner with international, national and local civil society organizations, religious groups, organization leaders, and social entrepreneurs to craft narratives of their preferred futures and align organizational structures and internal practices in furtherance of their constructed narratives. For almost 40 years, Hooker has served as mediator, restorative circle steward, facilitator, community builder, scholar, and advocate. He is a graduate of Morehouse College (BS); Washington University in St. Louis (AM); University of Massachusetts in Amherst (MPH & MPA); The Emory University School of Law (JD); The Candler School of Theology at Emory University (M. Div); and University of Tilburg in Tilburg, Netherlands (Ph.D.). Hooker is also an ordained minister in the United Church of Christ (UCC). In all of his preparation, he still believes his best professional training is as an understudy in community theatre and as a student of urban partner dances such as Detroit Urban Ballroom, Chicago Stepping, and the Cleveland Hand dance.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Is managing the institution wearing you out as a pastor or church leader? Does Christianity feel too isolated for earth and creation? In this episode, we talk with Matt Syrdal, a pastor and spiritual innovator on the challenges of maintaining institutions and the importance pursuing passion projects as an opportunity for pastors to live fully into their calling and be visionary for the future church. Syrdal also talks about his eco-spirituality projects and why he believes Christianity needs to be "re-wilded" toward a more experiential and mystical faith.
Rev. Matt Syrdal is a father of two and an ordained pastor living near the front range of the ancestral Rocky Mountains in Denver, Colorado. He has been influenced by the Christian mystical tradition, Jungian psychology, and the visionary lineage of Animas Valley Institute as a certified nature-based human development guide, currently in-training as a Soul Initiation Guide. In 2014 Matt founded Church of Lost Walls, a Denver Wild Church seeking to step across the threshold into a community based on sacred-reciprocity, relationship with the watershed, wild sacramental worship, and a commitment to ecological education and justice. In 2018 Matt co-founded Seminary of the Wild, an eco-ministry leadership and movement hub for a wild spirituality. Matt is has been a contributing writer for Progressive Christianity and currently writing a book called “Mythic Christ.” In 2022, Matt began his life’s work developing a Mystery School and launching a yearlong eco-depth training program called “Awakening Mythic Imagination.” Matt has been mentoring women and men through dreamwork, deep imagery, leadership coaching, ceremony and ritual, and personal mythwork as channels for accessing the deep Self and living with greater authenticity and purpose in service to the world.
Learn more about Mythic Christ Mystery School at www.mythicchrist.com
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Are you feeling the pressure to constantly innovate and be competitive in both work and daily life? Do you ever wonder if this focus on innovation is truly necessary for good ministry, or if it is simply a response to the fear of decline? In this episode of the Future Christian Podcast, we talk with Andrew Root about innovation in the church, the limits of creativity and singularity, and the dangers of making the church the start of it's own story. More, we also talk about how the constant demand for pastors to be creative and innovative pushes them toward behaving more as a manager and less as a pastor.
Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary, USA. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His most recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline (Baker, 2022), The Congregation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2021), The End of Youth Ministry? (Baker, 2020), The Pastor in a Secular Age: Ministry to People Who No Longer Need God (Baker, 2019), Faith Formation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2017), and Exploding Stars, Dead Dinosaurs, and Zombies: Youth Ministry in the Age of Science (Fortress Press, 2018). Andy has worked in congregations, parachurch ministries, and social service programs. He lives in St. Paul with his wife Kara, two children, Owen and Maisy, and their dog. When not reading, writing, or teaching, Andy spends far too much time watching TV and movies.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Trying to navigate the changing landscape of church? In this episode with Dr. Josh Packard and Dr. Todd Ferguson, we discuss their book Stuck and delve into the challenges faced by clergy members, particularly those with a Master of Divinity (MDiv) degree. But it's not all doom and gloom - they also suggest solutions for struggling congregations and talk about the future of Christianity. With a focus on navigating the current cultural conversation around LGBTQ+ issues and preserving diversity of expressions while expanding them, this podcast offers valuable insights into the need for adaptation and innovation in the church.
Dr. Josh Packard is a sociologist and researcher. He was the founding Executive Director of Springtide Research Institute and former professor at the University of Northern Colorado, where he was also the Executive Director of the Social Research Lab. He currently serves as the Vice President of Strategy for the National Catholic Educational Association. Josh is the author of the ground-breaking book Church Refugees: Sociologists reveal why people are DONE with church but not their faith as well as numerous academic articles about faith and religion. Find him online @drjoshpackard
Dr. Todd Ferguson is a sociologist of religion at the University of Mary Hardin-Baylor in Belton, Texas. His research focuses on the social organization of religion, specifically congregations and their clergy. He is fascinated with the fact that religions are more than ideas and beliefs. They create structures and communities that profoundly affect people’s lives. He earned his Ph.D. in sociology at Baylor University. Before becoming a sociologist, Todd earned a Master of Divinity from Duke Divinity School and was a pastor in Houston. Todd is married to Emma, a veterinarian, and they have two wonderful children.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
The journey of following Jesus can be at times lonely, isolating, and unfulfilling. What if that's all part of the process? Counselor, professor, and author Mark Dorn joins the pod to talk about why he believes Christians and especially pastors and church leaders need to lean in to their feelings of longing and unfulfillment, why he thinks chasing after fulfillment is antithetical to the way of Jesus, and why darkness is a precious opportunity.
Mark S. Dorn is Professor of Music at Colorado Christian University, as well as a private practice counselor. In his work at CCU, Mark leads the Symphonic Band and Jazz Ensemble, teaches trumpet lessons, and is actively involved in the mentoring of undergraduate students. He is both a freelance musician and conductor, as well as an author. With a longtime investment in discipleship and counseling, his curiosity about how knowing God can lead to personal transformation has propelled him into counseling, writing, and a lot of musing about the journey. He is married to Jill, with four grown children, a new baby, and ten grandchildren, and lives in Morrison, Colorado where he is never far from his next mountain adventure.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Since pre-Covid times, the United Methodist Church has been embroiled in conflict and disagreement over human sexuality, resulting in the splits and splintering playing out over the last several months. In this episode Pastor, author, and Family Systems expert Jack Shitama examines the rift via a FST approach, talking about how the conflict arose, what he thinks are some of the problems, and how he thinks things will play out.
Jack Shitama is an author, teacher, speaker and coach. His family systems approach to leadership helps congregational and nonprofit leaders achieve their best spiritually, physically and professionally. He is an avid learner with a passion for taking the most recent secular learnings and applying them to spiritual leadership. Jack is also an ordained elder in The United Methodist Church and currently serves as the Executive Director at Pecometh Camp & Retreat Ministries in Centreville, MD. He is also the Director for the Center for Vital Leadership.
Jack is the author 3 books, including of Anxious Church, Anxious People: How to Lead Change in an Age of Anxiety,
Jack and his wife of 40 years, Jodi, have four adult children and three grandchildren. Jack is an avid runner and has completed the Baltimore Marathon three times. He plays guitar and bass in the Jacob’s Well Band, his church’s worship band. He enjoys all kinds of sports, cooking, reading, traveling and, most of all, seeing people experience spiritual growth.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Everyone seems to be focused on the same thing, trying to re-vitalize and re-charge declining churches. But what if everything we're trying is emblematic of the decline? Author and church-planter Rohadi Nagassar joins the pod to talk about why common answers to church decline are Christendom-centric, the problem with seeking answers from "exceptional" churches, and why he believes churches need to find allies from within God's kingdom, not simply the same denomination. Rohadi also talks about how to protect yourself as a leader when risk-takers are often "left outside to freeze."
Rohadi writes and speaks on the topics of decolonizing, liberation, and deconstructing western Christianity. Listen to his podcast: Faith in a Fresh Vibe. He has planted two churches including an inner-city multi-ethnic expression called Cypher Church. He has also written extensively in the areas of missions and church leadership including his book, Thrive. Ideas to lead the church in post-Christendom. Rohadi’s latest book, When We Belong. Reclaiming Christianity on the Margins, from Herald Press. He lives in Canada, on Treaty 7 Lands, otherwise known as Calgary, and holds a Business Certificate from Mount Royal College, a BA in Economics from the University of Calgary, and a Master of Divinity from Canadian Theological Seminary.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
"Where does it hurt? And how can we help?" These are the words that led a small, dying church in Texas to Breakthrough! In this conversation with Pastor Dawn Weaks, we talk about being the leaders the church needs, how to guide a church through moving locations, and knowing what stuff to hang on to and what to leave behind. Dawn also talks about how the crisis of the pandemic and the flurry of the move gave momentum for change and new life. A must-listen for small-church pastors trying to lead growth and revitalization in church.
Rev. Dawn Weaks is the author of Breakthrough:Trusting God for Big Change In Your Church and Travel Guide to Christian Faith along with many other published articles and sermons. Her B.A. is from Baylor University, her M.Div. from Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University, and her D.Min from St. Paul School of Theology. She was ordained in the Southern Baptist church before becoming a Disciples of Christ minister. She has pastored FCC Miami, Texas, FCC Rowlett, Texas, Raytown Christian Church of Missouri, and currently is co-pastor at Connection Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) along with her husband, Joe. Connection is the third century-old congregation she has led to discover bold, new purpose in ministry.
Facebook:@dweaks Instagram:@ddweaks Twitter:@dawndw
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Pastors and church leaders often face the pressure to "perform," whether that means always appearing as spiritually confident, emotionally intact, or even just always showing up as the idealized version of themselves. In our age of authenticity, how can pastors and church leaders balance the need to "perform" in some capacity while also being true to themselves? In this conversation with Paul Romig-Leavitt and Brian Davis, two veteran worship leaders who know what it's like to "put on a show" for thousands of people at a time, we talk about handling the pressures and how to lead in a healthy and sustainable manner.
Brian has been leading worship in the Denver-metro area for the last 25 years and has built relationships with dozens of churches all over the city. Authenticity and empathy have been hallmarks of Brian’s leadership, and his intention is to use these attributes to coach other worship leaders and inspire greater creativity and deeper spiritual practice in the local church. Brian has three daughters, and he and his wife, Jess, live in Lakewood, CO. He also serves part-time as the Worship Arts Director at New Denver Church.
Paul has been a worship leader and pastor in the greater Denver area since 2001 working in full-time positions in churches such as Crossroads Community Church in Parker, The Refuge in Broomfield, and Restoration Church in Denver. Along with working as a guest worship leader in many other churches in Colorado, Paul also works with the Aspen Institute in Aspen CO as the Production Manager for the Aspen Ideas Festival as well as a director with the Denver video production company Colorado Arts Productions. Paul is the Co-author of “Cue-Lines,” a collection of plays and sketches he co-wrote with Greg Stier for the Dare 2 Share conferences. He lives in Broomfield CO with his wife and two daughters.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Despite efforts to include and make space for diversity, churches often do the opposite through their language, spaces, and architecture. In this conversation, Kimmothy Cole talks about what it means to create spaces where all are included, highlights the importance of knowing your community, and how pastors and church leaders can use her book in their churches.
Kimmothy Cole is a community artist working with ritual and gathering as tools for radical change. Their work prioritizes the creation of shared culture through a decolonizing lens. Cole is an accomplished visual, musical and performance artist, bringing immersive experiences into mundane spaces. Their performance and ritual work has been featured in festivals, events and venues across the US. They have certificates in Embodied Healing and Movement Chaplaincy, and their first Book A Liturgy for All Bodies: New Words for a New World available from Cyclical Publishing.
Support Kimmothy at https://www.patreon.com/TheRootedRitual
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
When it comes to church growth and revitalization, church governance isn't a topic that often comes to the forefront. Yet, according to Sean Bublitz, poor church governance is often a significant factor in stuck, declining churches. In this conversation, we talk about why pastors and church leaders should pay more attention to church governance, why when it comes to church boards bigger isn't better, and why voting should happen less often - not more. If you've ever felt like you're running into a brick wall with your organizational structures, you're going to want to listen to this.
Sean Bublitz has spent time over the past two decades at Community Christian Church (Naperville, IL) and Granger Community Church (Granger, IN) serving in weekend service, arts, and senior leadership roles. For the past 5 years, he has served as a ministry consultant and on the leadership team at The Unstuck Group. Sean lives with his wife and 5 kids in the South Bend, IN area.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
The work of a good pastor or church leader, according to pastor and church planter Aurelia Davila Pratt, is to make space - to be a spacemaker. And while she understand that there are many who have chosen to leave church for sake of their own healing, she also believes that it is essential that we make space for others, and most importantly, for the Spirit. In this conversation, we talk about what it means to make space for the Spirit, for real critique, and for others to heal and re-imagine.
Aurelia Dávila Pratt (MDiv, LMSW) is the lead pastor of Peace of Christ Church, a radically loving community in Round Rock, Texas. Named by Sojourners as one of “Ten Christian Women Shaping the Church in 2022”, Aurelia is also the author of A Brown Girl’s Epiphany: Reclaim Your Intuition and Step into Your Power and the co-host of the Nuance Tea Podcast. She is also a licensed master of social work, who currently serves as chair of the Board of Advocates at the Diana R. Garland School of Social Work. She regularly contributes articles for Progressing Spirit, Alliance of Baptists, and Good Faith Media. Find her on Instagram @revaureliajoy where she is reimagining faith and theology via spoken and written word.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Music isn't the main point in church, says singer and songwriter Spencer LaJoye, but churches need to decide what is. LaJoye joins the pod to talk about how music can be used for good in a church, and when it it's not. Spencer also shares advice for churches trying to become more inclusive, and what the one thing is they would change about music in church spaces.
Spencer LaJoye is a folk/pop singer songwriter, violinist, and vocal loop artist in Boston, MA, who believes everyone is made of the good stuff. A 2021 Kerrville New Folk Songwriting Competition winner, LaJoye (luh-JOY) makes music to tell the truth and return to their body as a queer person in recovery from American Christian evangelicalism. Delivering Broadway-esque melodies accompanied by a weathered dreadnought, their performances are equal parts confident quirk and elegant storytelling. The easiest way to support Spencer and stay connected is to join their community on Patreon.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
So your church is struggling and maintaining an aging building is no longer feasible. What do you do next? Pastor Dennis Sanders shares about his own church's experience navigating this difficult decision. Dennis shares how the conversation started, what was the tipping point, liturgies for leaving, and what they plan to do with the proceeds. Through it all, Dennis shares why keeps him hopeful for his church and why they still want to try.
A native of Flint, Michigan, Dennis is an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He received his bachelor's in journalism from Michigan State University and his master's of divinity from Luther Seminary. He’s been a communications professional working for various nonprofits for over 20 years. From 2008 until 2013 he was the Associate Pastor at First Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in Minneapolis. Since 2013, he's been the Pastor at First Christian Church of St. Paul in Roseville, MN . He lives in Minneapolis with his husband, Daniel.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Church planting is the R & D arm of denominations, says pastor and church planter Jonah Overton. Having launched a new church, Jonah shares about the story of Zoa MKE Church and key aspects along the starting process. They also emphasize that success is not a reflection on a leader's faithfulness, encourage pastors and leaders to have prophetic imagination, and understand that something not working doesn't mean it's a failure.
Rev. Jonah P. Overton (they/them) is a community organizer, creator of the podcasts “Jonah & the Peacock” and “Christian Queeries,” and the lead pastor of Zao MKE Church in Milwaukee, WI. As a young queer and trans clergy person, Jonah has been called into ministry to build the church as queer space and organize communities and churches towards justice and liberation.
tiktok & instagram: @rev_jonah, @zaomke
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
How does one lead faithfully in a time of collapse? Michael Chan joins the pod to talk about an article he co-wrote with Dwight Zscheile. In this conversation, we talk about what inspired the article, the biblical precedent from the prophet Jeremiah on leading through collapse and dealing with denial, and knowing what are the right questions to ask. Chan also reminds church leaders that denominational collapse is not that same as the failure of the gospel.
Dr. Michael Chan is executive director for faith and learning at Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota. Prior to that, he was associate professor of Old Testament at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minn. He joined Luther Seminary after completing his Ph.D. at Emory University and a year of research and teaching at the University of Helsinki. He is a graduate of Luther Seminary (M.A. in biblical theology) and Pacific Lutheran University (B.A. in elementary education). As the executive director for faith and learning, Dr. Chan directs the Lorentzsen Center for Faith and Work and the Dovre Center for Faith and Learning, guides Concordia’s interfaith relationships, and oversees the work of Campus Ministry. Read the article we discussed here:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In many mainline church contexts, pastors and leaders often spend countless hours wishing things were different and worrying about what's next. Anglican Priest, author, and runner Martha Tatarnic proposes a different way, encouraging pastors and leaders to embrace "ultrarealism," a running philosophy that encourages one to focus on what's actually happening and embrace it. In our conversation, we talk about why ultrarealism isn't about giving up, why an ultrareal church can't be anything other than an anti-Designer community, and what the big risk is in an ultrareal church.
Martha Tatarnic is the lead priest of St. George’s, a thriving downtown Anglican church in St. Catharines Ontario. Martha writes a regular blog for the Anglican Church of Canada, which can be found at medium.com. She is the author of The Living Diet: A Christian Journey to Joyful Eating, an exploration of our relationship with food and our body through a Christian perspective and also her second book, Why Gather? The Hope and Promise of the Church. Find out more about her at https://marthatatarnic.ca
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Having served in local churches his entire life, Jonathan Foster had a startling realization: most Christians don't love themselves. Seeing so many Christians struggling beneath the weight of shame and the assumption that God didn't like them any more than they liked himself, Foster believed there had to be a better way. In this podcast, we talk about Foster's journey led him down a path of deconstruction, but also reconstruction, as he realized that our only hope is love.
Jonathan Foster is an award-winning and amazon best-selling author. He recently received his doctorate through NorthWind Seminary. The author of two books, The Reconstuctionists and his dissertation turned book Theology of Consent: Mimetic Theory in an Open and Relational Universe. He's the founder of lovehaiti.org, has three children, and one life-long partner. You can find out more about him at jonathanfosteronline.com.
Social handles
twitter: jonathan_foster
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patreon: jonathan_foster
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Forged in the furnace of U.S. segregation, the Black Church is the pillar of African American communities across the country. As such, it has a powerful testimony and incredible lessons that can be shared still today. Author and leader Freda Sampson joins the pod to talk about the history of the Black Church, what distinguishes Black Churches from other protestant churches, and what are the biggest challenges facing Black Churches today.
Freda G. Sampson is an advocate for equity, justice and radical inclusion. She is entrepreneur, creative, and author. Her passion stems from growing up and observing her father, Rev. Dr. Frederick G. Sampson, II, a civil rights leader and pastor, fight for equality for all people. Witnessing that love in action has formed the direction of her personal and professional journey. A diversity and inclusion professional, Freda provides consulting, training and facilitation services to corporations, governmental agencies and organizations throughout Michigan and Canada on diversity, inclusion, and cultural competency.
Find more books on the MSU Bias Busters series here:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Many of the things we think we know about religion and politics in America simply aren't true, says Ryan Burge, and he has the data to back it up. As a professor, researcher, and pastor Ryan Burge has spent years exploring and now debunking many common myths around Abortion, Born-again experiences, and the so-called "Nones." In this episode, we talk about some of the myths and what church leaders should understand instead about American culture.
Ryan P. Burge is an assistant professor of political science at Eastern Illinois University. Author of numerous journal articles, he is the cofounder of and a frequent contributor to Religion in Public, a forum for scholars of religion and politics to make their work accessible to a general audience. Burge is a pastor in the American Baptist Church and is the author of The Nones and 20 Myths about Religion and Politics in America
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Between the historical baggage of colonialist mission endeavors of the past and the consumer-oriented "selfie mission" focus of present day, many churches and church leaders find themselves at a loss when trying to figure out how practice honest and authentic mission in the way of Jesus. Author and veteran missionary Hunter Farrell joins the pod to talk about the what lessons can be learned from past mistakes, opportunities for companionship and mutual mission in the present, and ideas for pastors and churches trying to plan mission trips.
Hunter Farrell serves as the Director of the World Mission Initiative of Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, having served 30 years as a Presbyterian mission co-worker in Democratic Republic of Congo and Peru, Area Coordinator and Director of World Mission for the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Farrell earned his doctorate in cultural anthropology at the Pontifical Catholic University in Perú, and his M. Div. in Cross-Cultural Studies at Fuller Theological Seminary. Farrell is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church (USA) and married to Ruth Brand Farrell with whom he raised three children, now grown.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In these days of increasing political polarization and hyper-partisanship in church, Brian Kaylor joins the show to talk about why he doesn't think pastors should be partisan, how it is possible to be a bi-partisan church, and how pastors and church leaders can foster health political conversations. Brian also shares why churchgoers are more likely to change churches than change their politics and encourages pastors to focus on what unites people other than their politics.
Brian is an writer and expert on issues of religion, politics, and communication. He also hosts the award-winning podcast “Baptist Without An Adjective.” In addition to his work as Editor & President of Word&Way, his writings have been published by CNN, Houston Chronicle, Kansas City Star, Washington Post, and many other outlets. He is also the author of four books on religion and politics. Brian has a Ph.D. and an M.A. in Communication from the University of Missouri, and a B.A. in Communication and Christian Ministry from Southwest Baptist University. He previously served as Associate Director of Churchnet, Assistant Professor of Communication Studies at James Madison University, Contributing Editor for Ethics Daily, and Pastor of Union Mound Baptist Church in Elkland, Missouri. He currently serves as chair of both the Communication Advisory Committee and the Resolutions Committee for the Baptist World Alliance.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Year after year, thousands of churches across America are closing. Churches that were once the heart and soul of their communities are now shrinking both in size and influence, leading author and filmmaker Thom Schultz to try to figure out why. The creator of the film, When God Left the Building, Thom joins the pod to talk about the spiritual malaise, refusal to change, and an irrelevance to modern life that doom so many churches. Thom also shares some signs of life and hope for fresh expressions of church and ministry.
Thom Schultz is an author, filmmaker, publisher and innovator in resources for churches. He is the director of the documentary feature film “When God Left the Building.” He’s the co-author, along with his wife Joani, of many books, including Why Nobody Wants to Go to Church Anymore, The One Thing, and Don’t Just Teach . . . Reach. And his blog is called Holy Soup. Thom founded the international multimedia company Group Publishing in 1974, and continues to serve as its president. Group publishes books, Bibles and educational resources for churches and Christians around the world.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In these times of contentious struggles over important issues, how can we fight like Jesus? Author and peacemaker Jason Porterfield joins the show to talk about fighting with means that are consistent with the way of peace, the importance of speaking truth to power but listening with humility, and how to fight like Jesus in an age of Christian Nationalism. Jason also shares his passion for cultivating God’s shalom wherever it is painfully absent and helping churches embrace their peacemaking vocation.
Jason Porterfield was a founding member of the Servants team in Vancouver, started a new team in Indonesia, and directed operations in North America through 2015. Jason holds a masters in theology from Fuller Theological Seminary and is the author of Fight Like Jesus, a groundbreaking book that equips readers with practical peacemaking skills as it examines how Jesus waged peace on each day of Holy Week. Today, you’ll find Jason living in his riskiest location yet: next door to his in-laws.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Covid-19 accelerated the digital reformation for the church as countless ministries were forced to re-evaluate and re-examine their strategies and methods around online ministry. Author and church leader Ryan Panzer encourages Christian communities to think like a reformer when planning what's next for digital ministry. In this conversation, Ryan talks about digital values, practices that must be preserved from before and during the pandemic, and how to make hybrid ministry sustainable.
Ryan Panzer is the author of “Grace and Gigabytes: Being Church in a Tech-Shaped Culture” and the forthcoming "The Holy and the Hybrid: Navigating the Church's Digital Reformation." Ryan has spent his career in the worlds of church leadership and technology. He received his M.A. from Luther Seminary while simultaneously working for Google. Ryan serves as a learning and leadership development professional in the technology industry and as a speaker and writer on digital technology in the church. Ryan also serves as the Resident Theologian at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Madison, WI where he lives with his wife and two children. For more writings and resources, visit www.ryanpanzer.com.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In many churches, innovation and experimentation is avoided, often due to a fear of failure. Author and Episcopal Priest Lorenzo Lebrija joins the pod to talk about Design Thinking, why frameworks can be helpful in church contexts, and why failing is okay. Lebrija believes that God rewards faithfulness, not success and encourages leaders to examine their goals rather than just aiming to get people in the seats!
The Rev. Lorenzo Lebrija is the Chief Innovation Officer of Virginia Theological Seminary and the founding director of TryTank Experimental Lab, an action laboratory for church innovation. Prior to launching TryTank, Fr. Lorenzo was the Chief Development Officer for the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles. He also served as the Pastor on behalf of the Bishop at St. John's Episcopal Church in San Bernardino, CA, and as priest associate at St. Athanasius Episcopal Church at the Cathedral Center of St. Paul in Los Angeles. He studied at the General Theological Seminary in New York City where he earned his Master of Divinity degree. His book How to Try is available by print or audio.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Growing up as a child, Christina Edmondson believed there were not that many white Christians in America, because the people she saw couldn't be connected to the Jesus she knew. In the years since, her passion for following the way of Jesus and bringing love and justice to racial dynamics in America has shaped her work. In this conversation, we talk about why talking about racism is not a "distraction" from the gospel, why common memory is crucial for forming community, and how to have a trauma-informed mission strategy.
Christina Barland Edmondson is a higher education instructor, organizational consultant, and co-host of the Truth's Table podcast. She is the coauthor of Faithful Antiracism and has served in a variety of roles in higher education including as the Dean for Intercultural Student Development at Calvin University. She is also a certified Cultural Intelligence facilitator, public speaker, mental health therapist, and a consultant in the areas of ethics, equity, and Christian leadership development. Christina holds a PhD in counseling psychology from Tennessee State University, an MS degree in family therapy from the University of Rochester, and a bachelor's degree in sociology from Hampton University. Her writing has been seen and referenced in a variety of outlets including Essence.com, YourBlackWorld.com, and Gospel Today magazine.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
While the Covid-19 pandemic forced many churches to join the digital revolution, many have failed to accept the "Great Digital Commission." Believing that embracing social media can be a catalyst for church growth and transformation, Caleb Lines joins to the show to talk about the importance of evaluating vision and mission, why branding is more than just trendy graphics, and why not everything you do at your church needs to be replicated online also.
Rev. Dr. Caleb J. Lines is Senior Minister of University Christian Church in San Diego. Additionally, he is the Co-Executive Director of Progressive Christianity.org and is the Co-Host of the podcast The Moonshine Jesus Show. Caleb has a passion for pursuing social justice for the marginalized, demonstrating the Good News of God’s radically inclusive love, and proclaiming a relevant message for today’s ever-changing world. Caleb is the author of The Great Digital Commission: Embracing Social Media for Church Growth and Transformation His writing has been featured in The Nation Magazine, Disciples News Service, Chalice Press, The Christian Left, The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, The Center for Prophetic Imagination, the Convergence Leadership Project, and Sojourners. Caleb has a D.Min from Duke Divinity and a M.Div from Yale.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
For the last 10-20 years, church planting has become formulaic and systematized, as large church planting organizations brought corporate practices and values into the church world. This kind of business thinking has created an "industrial church starting complex" that according to author Nick Warnes, needs to be re-examined. In this conversation, we talk about a better model for church starts, the need for churches to shift from internal growth to reproduction, and why denominations are no longer a viable protocol to start new churches.
Nicholas Warnes (Masters of Divinity, Fuller Theological Seminary, Emphasis in Worship Theology and Art) is the Founder and Executive Director of Cyclical. He enjoys the regular pattern and rhythm of being both the Executive Director of Cyclical Inc. and Director of Cyclical LA, a ministry of the San Fernando Presbytery in Los Angeles. Nick is also a recognized speaker on church planting, coach for New Worshiping Communities with the Presbyterian Church USA, and is the chair of the board of the Church Planting Program at Fuller Theological Seminary where he is also an adjunct professor (church planting certificate). Nick is the author of several books including Deconstructing Church Planting. Nick lives with his wife, Whitney, and son, Lee, in Los Angeles, CA.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
As more churches struggle post-Covid, many are looking at how their building and property can support their flagging budgets. Yet, according to real estate expert and author Dominic Dutra, if churches are simply leasing or renting their property just to prop up their dwindling budgets - they're only hurting their mission. In this conversation, Dutra talks about his experience with real estate and church property, how real estate and church mission go together, and what questions to ask if your church is declining. Dutra also examines the three common moves for churches and property, including merging, leasing, and selling.
Dominic Dutra has spent his life serving his community. As a leader in the world of real estate, an adjunct faculty member at his alma mater (Santa Clara University), a two-term member of the Fremont City Council, and a committed Christian, Dutra seeks to leverage his experience to further the mission of the church. He aims to partner with organizations to reach fiscal sustainability and create more effective ministry. Dutra and his wife, Lisa, have been married for thirty-five years and have raised two children—Tricia and Gabriel. Learn more about his book here:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Far too often, churches are asking other to risk their discomfort - shouldn't churches be willing to risk their own discomfort for the sake of others? In this conversation, Sean Chow talks about how to help churches honestly assess their ability to pivot for change and growth, the importance of finding the right kind of change/growth leader, and why investing in resources bearing fruit matters. Sean believes that crisis accelerates change and understands the changes that are permanent post-Covid and what your church can do about them.
Rev. Dr. Sean Chow is the Associate for 1001 New Worshiping Communities for Training and Leadership Cohorts for the Presbyterian Church (PCUSA). He resources and consults with regional denominational bodies, churches, and church plants as they launch new creative expressions of church. He is a graduate of Azusa Pacific University (2005), Master of Divinity from San Francisco Theological Seminary (2009) and a Doctor of Ministry at New York Theological Seminary (2022). The author of Rediscovering Vitality, Sean has an inner desire to be a part of a God driven movement that impacts the world for God’s glory. His aim is to prepare, equip, and sustain leaders to do the work in which God calls them. He is a frequent speaker to churches, committees, gatherings, and conferences. Learn more here.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In a time in which countless church leaders have cast aside Christian ethics in the pursuit of power, David Gushee believes that Christian ethics still matter. In this conversation, we talk about why ethics should still be important to Christians and churches, how he sees the kingdom of God as a basis for Christian ethics, and how to promote an ethic of creation care rather than a relentless pursuit of profits. And, in this post-Roe landscape, David examines the lessons from SCOTUS and whether the victory will be worth the cost for Evangelicals.
Dr. David P. Gushee (Ph.D., Union Theological Seminary, New York) is Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics atMercer University, Chair of Christian Social Ethics at Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, and Senior Research Fellow at International Baptist Theological Study Centre. Gushee is the elected Past-President of both the American Academy of Religion and Society of Christian Ethics, signaling his role as one of America’s leading Christian ethicists. He is the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of over 25 books and approximately 175 book chapters, journal articles, and reviews. His most recognized works include Righteous Gentiles of the Holocaust, Kingdom Ethics, and The Sacredness of Human Life, and more recently, Changing OurMind, Still Christian and After Evangelicalism. Over a 28-year career, he’s been a devoted teacher, scholar, and activist on such issues as climate, torture, and LGBTQ inclusion. Dr. Gushee and his wife Jeanie live in Atlanta.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
It's vital that new churches and communities of faith are started in order to carry the faith on to future generations, yet church planting has never been harder. Setting aside the challenges of Covid and a culture in turmoil, there are common pitfalls that can trip up even the most agile. Pastor and veteran church starter Daniel Steigerwald joins the pod to talk about these common pitfalls and how they can be avoided, such as navigating bi-vocational ministry contexts, leadership challenges, and unrealistic ministry metrics.
Daniel Steigerwald helps pioneering leaders engage fresh ways to lead and multiply mission-shaped communities while tending to their holistic formation along the way. Having worked for 30+ years in cross-cultural missions, church planting and pastoring, he knows personally how hard and soul-depleting ministry can become. Dan holds a DMin in Leadership in the Emerging Culture from Portland Seminary, is credentialed at the PCC level under the International Coach Federation (ICF), and has authored a number of practical books including 10 Pitfalls in Starting New Churches: Avoiding Hazards on the Way to Health (2020).
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In many church and clergy circles, part-time is considered the "kiss of death," the dreaded sign that the church has thrown in the towel and is circling the drain, trying to squeeze out a few more months or years before inevitably closing its doors. It need not be so, says Jeffrey MacDonald. In this conversation, we talk about how utilizing part-time clergy can actually be a move toward vitality and growth for struggling churches, what denominations can do better to support PT clergy, and what churches and denominations owe to pastors who took on student load debt but can't find decent jobs to pay the bills.
The Rev. G. Jeffrey MacDonald helps mainline Protestant congregations develop fresh vitality without full-time clergy. He does this through service journalism, authoring books, consulting with church leaders and serving as a part-time interim pastor. Ordained in the United Church of Christ, Jeff has won national awards for his religion coverage in The Christian Science Monitor, Religion News Service, Faith & Leadership and other outlets. He’s the author of Thieves in the Temple: The Christian Church and the Selling of the American Soul and Part-Time is Plenty: Thriving without Full-Time Clergy. He lives in Swampscott, Mass.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
"The church can break our hearts more often than it does the gospel work of healing us" says pastor Amy Butler, who in being the first woman to serve at 3 different churches knows what it's like to find heartbreak rather than healing. In this conversation, Pastor Amy shares why she still believes the church can be a powerful force for healing and hope, talks about Invested Faith - one of the ways she is seeking to lead the church forward into more healing and hope, and explains why she's fascinated with the question, "what does it take to build community that can change the world."
Rev. Dr. Amy Butler currently leads National City Christian Church as intentional interim Senior Minister. Before that, Amy served for for five years as the seventh Senior Minister and first woman at the helm of The Riverside Church in the City of New York. She holds degrees from Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary, and Wesley Theological Seminary. When she’s not busy leading, teaching, preaching or writing, Pastor Amy is an avid reader and loves to write, recently completing her first memoir which will soon be published by Penguin Random House Books. Pastor Amy is mom to three amazing young adults who are each making their way in the world; they are her favorites.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Deconstruction has been the buzzword in progressive Christian contexts for the last 5+ years, yet often times that deconstruction looks more like an angry sledgehammer than a thoughtful critique. While there are certainly aspects of the Christian tradition that need to be taken apart, pastor and author Brian Zahnd joins the pod to talk about the dangers of deconstruction, the mystical future of Christianity, and why the future will be sustained by an experience--not an argument.
Brian Zahnd is the founder and lead pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, Missouri. Known for his theologically informed preaching and his embrace of the deep and long history of the church, Zahnd provides a forum for pastors to engage with leading theologians and is a frequent conference speaker. He is the author of several books, including Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God, A Farewell to Mars, and When Everything is on Fire.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
As with many things in our society, Covid accelerated the revolution in church economics that was already coming. Mark DeYmaz joins the pod to share from his book, written before Covid, about what inspired him to write the book and why he thinks it's all the more important as a result of the Covid-related changes. In our conversation, we talk about the change in mindset church leaders need to have, how churches can develop multiple streams of income and leverage their assets, and why churches need to stop begging for money!
A thought-leading writer and recognized champion of the Multiethnic Church Movement, Mark planted the Mosaic Church in 2001 where he continues to serve as Directional Leader. In 2004, he co-founded the Mosaix Global Network with Dr. George Yancey, today serving as its president and convener of the triennial National Multi-ethnic Church Conference. In 2008, he launched Vine and Village and remains active on the board of this 501(c)(3) non-profit focused on the spiritual, social, and financial transformation of Little Rock's University District. Mark also has academic partnerships with Wheaton College and is an adjunct professor at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary and Phoenix Seminary, where he earned a D.Min. in 2007.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Evangelicalism has been in a season of conflict and turmoil as seemingly unending scandals and controversies have rocked the space. As an uneasy insider, Pastor and author Dan Stringer acknowledges the struggles yet seeks an alternative option between "everything's fine" or "burn it all down." In our conversation, we talk about understanding Evangelicalism as as a space rather than a brand, the importance of understanding evangelicalism as more than simple white and American, and why he understands why some "exvangelicals" had to leave. Through all this, Dan offers some practical suggestions and glimmers of hope.
Dan Stringer grew up as a third culture kid in five countries on three continents. He is a graduate of Wheaton College and Fuller Theological Seminary, ordained in the Evangelical Covenant Church, and serves as team leader for InterVarsity's Graduate and Faculty Ministries in Hawai'i. Dan is pastor of theological formation at Wellspring Covenant Church in Hālawa, Hawai'i. He previously was a social worker helping people obtain housing and employment. He has written for Missio Alliance, Inheritance, and Level Ground, and is a contributor to Father Factor.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Do I stay Christian? A question countless pastors, church leaders, and followers of Jesus could never have imagined themselves asking, yet when confronted with the behavior of modern-day Christians and the historical legacy of Christianity, many can't help but ask themselves the question. In our conversation, Brian talks about the complexity of what it even means to be a Christian, why solidarity--not supremacy--should be the model for Christianity moving forward, and why some people may need to simply leave a form of Christianity rather than the whole religion.
A former college English teacher, Brian was a pastor for twenty-four years. Now he’s an author, activist, public theologian, and frequent guest lecturer for gatherings in the U.S. and internationally. His work has been covered in TIME Magazine, Newsweek, USA Today, The New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, and many other media outlets. The author of more than 15 books, including Faith After Doubt, A New Kind of Christian, and Do I Stay Christian? Brian is a faculty member of The Living School at the Center for Action and Contemplation. McLaren lives in Florida.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Evangelism, the "E" word is often one of the most dreaded conversation topics in many mainline and progressive church communities. Rev. Phiwa Langeni, a self-described "evangelist for evangelism" joins the pod to define what they mean by "evangelism," clarify the differences between evangelism and colonialism, and also provided good examples within progressive contexts. Phiwa believes there is a difference between proselytizing and evangelism, and we need to better train church people to share their stories.
As a queer, Black, trans person from an immigrant family, the Rev. Phiwa Langeni is quite skilled at detecting and decreasing various societal gaps, especially with/for those with multiple minoritized identities. Since ordination in 2011, Phiwa has served in just about every local church setting possible: a thriving progressive church, multi-charge rural churches, a large suburban church, small churches deeply rooted in political and social justice, and a new church start/nonprofit hybrid. They currently serve as the Ambassador for Innovation and Engagement in the United Church of Christ's Center for Analytics, Research & Development, and Data. Phiwa is also the owner of a few small creative businesses, including their most recent adventures in fashion design. They solo parent an adult daughter who challenges them in brilliance and beauty. In their free time, Phiwa enjoys reading, upcycling, 90s R&B, dad jokes, and creating all manner of things.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Numerical church growth in mainline churches is often seen as problematic or even impossible. Pastor and author Tracy Barnowe joins the pod to talk about ethical and achievable action plans to help churches bring in more people. In our conversation, we talk about why church growth is often so frowned upon in mainline churches, what churches are doing that doesn't work, and 3 things churches can start doing immediately to grow their church!
Rev. Tracy Barnowe is an ordained minister with the United Church of Christ. She has served as a revitalization pastor in multiple churches and has studied and tested methods for effective church growth for the past twenty years. She has served as a Church Growth Consultant and led workshops on her evidence-based growth strategies for years. She served as the Minister for Church Vitality in the Hawai’i Conference of the United Church of Christ. Pastor Tracy is the author of Unstoppable Outreach and Grow Your Church. She holds an MDiv from Pacific School of Religion (2011) and an MA from the Graduate Theological Union (2012) in Biblical Studies with a focus on Old Testament Hermeneutics. Learn more at her website.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In this time of disruption and decline among mainline denominations, it's vital that efforts be made to start new churches and worshipping communities. Consultants Paul Nixon and Craig Gilbert join the pod to share practical, how-to steps for everything from initial advertising to building a volunteer team from their book Launching a New Worship Community
Paul Nixon is the author of multiple books on church development. His company, Epicenter Group, has coached hundreds of congregations and their leaders in North America and in Europe, helping many to discover breakthroughs in the growth and renewal of their ministries. Nixon also serves as director of church multiplication for Discipleship Ministries. He was codeveloper of the Readiness 360 inventory for churches.
Craig Gilbert is a worship consultant and founder of Purposed Heart Ministries. From Craig’s ministry start in a small congregation to his serving a church with eight distinctive worship communities involving more than 2,000 worshipers, Craig has planned and presented worship in a wide variety of styles at the “every Sunday” level, as well as designing and leading worship in large conference settings for thousands of people.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
For the last 2+ years, pastors and church leaders have wondered what church after Covid would look like. While there are some conclusions to be drawn, in many ways the results are still unclear. Pastor and Researcher Ann Mitchell Hall joins the pod to talk about cultivating change readiness, leading intentionally, and making meaning meaning out of transitions from her book Church After, a book written before Covid, yet incredibly applicable to these times. Listen in to learn more about the importance of story, why listening is so important, and why shared practice is everything.
Rev. Dr. Anna Hall is an ordained Baptist minister who has coordinated programs and conducted research in churches, nonprofits, and universities. In her work as Director of Research and Development for the Convergence, she draws on the latest research from across the fields of religious practice, organizational development, and adult learning to inform product development and implementation that supports the needs of pastors and churches. She holds a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology, Emory University, a Master of Public Administration from Valdosta State University, and a Ph.D. from the University of Georgia, where her research focused on congregations experiencing a change in pastors.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
From tiny houses to Marie Kondo, Minimalism has a strong counter-cultural following against the endless onslaught of consumerism. Author and educator Becca Ehrlich joins the pod to talk about minimalism, how it connects with the Christian faith, and why minimalism isn't just about getting rid of stuff, but choosing to live intentionally and purposefully.
Becca Ehrlich AKA The Christian Minimalist, is striving to be a Christian minimalist in a consumer society. She is an ordained pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA); she also holds a doctorate in Christian spirituality. As a Christian minimalist in a consumeristic society, she got rid of 60 percent of her personal possessions in six months, took part in a year-long shopping fast, and moved into a small home. She currently lives in New York City with her husband Will. You can read more about her story and how her blog came to exist here.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
We all have so many demands and distractions that it is hard to take time away for ourselves to spend with God. Rich Lewis joins the pod to talk about the importance of making time to spend in quiet contemplation. Rich talks about the practice of centering prayer and why it has been an important spiritual practice for him, allowing him to let go of stress, find rest, and be more present in everyday life.
Rich Lewis is an author, speaker and coach who focuses on centering prayer as a means of inner transformation. He teaches centering prayer in both his local and virtual community and offers one-on-one coaching. He publishes a weekly meditation, book reviews, and interviews on his site, Silence Teaches. He has published articles for a number of organizations, including Contemplative Light, Abbey of the Arts, Contemplative Outreach, EerdWord, In Search of a New Eden, the Ordinary Mystic at Patheos, and the Contemplative Writer. Rich has been a daily practitioner of centering prayer since June 2014. Centering prayer has been so life-giving and life-changing that he feels compelled to share his journey with others who wish to learn more. Rich resides with his family in Ambler, Pennsylvania.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Terry Wildman joins the pod to talk about the First Nations Version, a new translation of the Sacred Scriptures by and for Native North Americans. In this conversation, we talk about what inspired the translation, their choice for the name of Jesus (Creator sets free), and how he hopes the translation will be a blessing to first nations people.
Terry M. Wildman (Ojibwe and Yaqui) is the lead translator, general editor, and project manager of the First Nations Version. He serves as the director of spiritual growth and leadership development for Native InterVarsity. He is also the founder of Rain Ministries and has previously served as a pastor and worship leader. He and his wife, Darlene, live in Arizona.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Jeya and Daniel So join the pod to talk about what is a third culture leader, how to develop them, and the gifts they bring. Jeya and Daniel believe that changing our attitude toward post-Christendom will help us all, and why Christ does not erase our cultural or ethnic heritage, but rather redeems it.
Revs. Jeya and Daniel So are the co-founding and co-lead pastors of Anchor City Church, a third-culture community in San Diego,CA. They are contributing authors to the book, "Deconstructing Church Planting: Reconstructing a Post-Colonial and Post-industrial Pneumatology for the Next Generation of Churches" as well as other books.
Jeya also works as a coach, cohort leader, and in other capacities with church and industry leaders in several denominations and organizations, including the PC(USA)’s 1001 New Worshipping Communities, Cyclical Inc. and ISAAC (Innovative Space for Asian American Christianity).Daniel serves as director of Cyclical San Diego — a diverse grassroots network of faithful innovators and church starters.
During the pandemic, Jeya has enjoyed exploring hidden places in San Diego that reveal new and wonderful things about the city that she loves. When its safe to do so, Daniel will be front and center in the moshpit at local hardcore shows."
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
American Christianity seemingly has built-in assumptions that God is only honored in victories. Writer and author Tanya May Avent joins the pod to talk about why it's a mistake to only understand God's abundance as being in external metrics, how our own demands for results can hurt the ones we love, and why she's redefined winning and worshipping God and loving her family.
Tonya is an engaging speaker, teacher, and award-winning author who has contributed to Chicken Soup for the Soul and has written for Guideposts and Stay Focused magazines. After a serious injury to her daughter while competing in Track and Field, Tonya started ministering the gospel through a sports lens at destined4thedub.com, offering personal stories relating to the intersection of her Faith, her Family, their athletic pursuits, and everyday life challenges. Tonya has been married to Kenny Avent for 19 years. They reside in New Jersey with their two daughters, Kennedi (17) and Kassadi (14), and are guardians to Anna (15).
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
"Dreamcrusher" and fellow Coloradan Jessie Cruickshank joins the pod to talk about about Neuro-ecclesiology. In this off-the-cuff conversation, we talk about why shame is never a tool of God, why people will never make it on information alone, and why the brain can't be trusted, or at least, our own understanding of the world. Jessie also talks about why the job description for pastors is one crafted in hell.
Jesse is an ordained Foursquare minister and nationally recognized expert in the fields of discipleship, neuroeducation, and experiential education. She has spent over a decade applying neuroeducation research to discipleship, ministry training, experiential education, and organization development. She is respected globally as a missiological thought-leader and serves the body of Christ as a neuro-ecclesiologist. Jessie is a church and denominational consultant and serves as the Director of Certification with the Future Church Company. She is the Co-Founder of 5Q. Jessie holds a Master’s from Harvard in Mind, Brain, and Education. She is a published academic, author, and serves on multiple boards internationally.
You can follow her on Twitter and Instagram at @yourbrainbyjess
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Love is perhaps, one of the most overused and misunderstood words in the English language, especially when it comes to God. Theologian Thomas Jay Oord, author of the new book, Pluriform Love, joins the show to talk about the confusion around live in the Bible, why the Augustinian idea of God's love isn't ideal, and why he believes there is not a distinction between human love and God's love.
Thomas Jay Oord, Ph.D., is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord directs the Center for Open and Relational Theology and doctoral students at Northwind Theological Seminary. He is an award-winning author and has written or edited more than twenty-five books. A gifted speaker, Oord lectures at universities, conferences, churches, and institutions. He is known for his contributions to research on love, science and religion, open and relational theology, the problem of suffering, and the implications of freedom for transformational relationships.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
With all the controversies of the past few years, many churches have sought to avoid difficult conversations and tough topics. Pastor and Author Elizabeth Hagan believes such an approach is mistaken. Rather, she believes people need to speak their truths without fear of being dismissed, shamed, or judged. In this conversation, we talk about safe spaces vs. brave spaces, why conflict can be a good thing, and the importance of boundaries.
Elizabeth Hagan is an ecumenical pastor at heart who currently serves at First Christian Church in Athens, GA. She is a graduate of Samford University and Duke Divinity School. She is also the author of Birthed: Finding Grace Through Infertility and the executive director of Our Courageous Kids, a foundation serving young adults who grew up in international orphanages with educational and mental health support. She is the proud wife of Kevin and mother of Amelia.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Discipleship is something we all like to talk about but don't all agree on what it actually means. Robert Douglas, author of the book The Missional Discipleship-Making Handbook, joins the show to talk about the best ways to live into discipleship, why we are not often clear on definitions and key terms, and why the church overemphasizing the Sunday worship gathering has effectively rendered discipleship optional.
Pastor Robert Douglas has an MA Theology from Fuller Theological Seminary and is a church starter, local pastor, Cyclical Developer, coach, author of The Missional Disciple-Making Handbook, and Director of Cyclical Full Circle. Rob has taken the lessons learned from starting church planting ecosystems and working with innovative church leaders around the world and applied it to creating frameworks that help churches take faithful next steps toward greater health and vitality.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Pastors often find themselves working in churches that don't fit with their own personal theology. Jake Doberenz joins the pod to talk about what keeps him in a church that doesn't fit with his own theology, whether he thinks there is a way to bridge the theological divides that often exist between clergy and laypeople, and how to know when it's time to leave. Having served in the Church of Christ, Jake also shares some thoughts on what conservative churches can learn from liberal churches, and vice versa.
Jake Doberenz is a writer, speaker, minister, and creative thinker living in Oklahoma City, OK with my wife Samantha. His main role is the founder and president of Theophany Media, a Christian education company dedicated to helping Christians create better art. Currently, he serves as producer for Theophany Media's Creatively Christian podcast. He recently finished a Master of Theological Studies at Oklahoma Christian University, where he also earned a Bachelor’s degree in Bible with a minor in Communication Studies. If you want to see his progress, achievements, and appearances sign up for the newsletter so you’ll never miss an update!
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Recent times have put a spotlight on the inequities, systems of oppression, and deep divisions in our society. Much has been written that acknowledges and describes the divides, but there has been little practical information on what can be done. In this conversation, Brian Allain and Adam Thomas, editors of the book How to Heal Our Divides, talk about why they believe healing our divides is possible, ways that churches and leaders can facilitate healing in their communities, and steps privileged persons often overlook when seeking healing.
Brian Allain founded and leads Writing for Your Life, a resource center and conferences for spiritual writers, which includes the Publishing in Color conference series, intended to increase the number of books published by spiritual writers of color. Brian also founded and leads the teams that produce Compassionate Christianity and How to Heal Our Divides. Previously Brian served as Founding Director of the Frederick Buechner Center where he led the launch of Mr. Buechner’s online presence and established several new programs and strategic partnerships. Brian has developed and led spiritual writers conferences at Princeton Theological Seminary, Drew Theological Seminary, Western Theological Seminary, the University of Southern California, Belmont University, New Brunswick Seminary, and several churches. He led the publishing effort for the book Buechner 101: An Introduction to Frederick Buechner, in collaboration with Anne Lamott, and also the book How to Heal Our Divides. All of this is a second career, coming after business and technology leadership in high-tech. Brian has an MBA from the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania, where he was designated a Palmer Scholar, their highest academic award. You can learn more about Brian here and here.
Adam Thomas wears many hats: pastoring an Episcopal Church in southeastern Connecticut, editing and designing books for independent writers, writing fantasy novels, podcasting about Jesus and nerdy stuff, and playing lots of Dungeons and Dragons. Adam published four books and curricula with Abingdon Press from 2011 to 2014 (Digital Disciple, Letters from Ruby, Converge: Who is Jesus?, and Unusual Gospel for Unusual People). When the twins were born in 2014, he switched to writing fantasy. You can find hundreds of sermons on wherethewind.com, several fantasy novels on adamthomas.net, and his podcast, The Podcast for Nerdy Christians at nerdychristians.com or wherever you download your podcasts.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Lent is often misunderstood as simply being about giving up meat, chocolate, or some other pleasure in the name of spiritual growth. Rev. Riley Pickett joins the pod to talk about why she loves Lent and why believes Lent is so much more than just simple fasts and diets. In the interview, Riley talks about the beauty of Lent, how she helped bring together the book Fury & Grace, and how churches and faith communities can use the book to cultivate communal spiritual practices and growth during the season of Lent, considering the perspectives of the marginalized and often forgotten in prison.
Rev. Riley Pickett (she/her) is an ordained Presbyterian (USA) minister currently serving as Interim Pastor for Hagar’s Community Church, a congregation planted inside of the largest women’s prison in Washington State. She holds her Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary and is passionate about creating worshipping spaces with folks who have been historically excluded from the Church, especially queer and trans people. She is happiest by a body of water, on a mountain, or when surrounded by books and her people. Get a copy of the book here:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
The biggest challenge to new church start leaders is sustainability. But, these problems are not for church planters to solve alone says Scott Hagley, Karen Rohrer, and Michael Gehrling, editors of the book Sustaining Grace: Innovative Ecosystems for New Faith Communities. In our conversation, we talk about the book, why judicatories ned church planters even if they don't become self-sustaining, and why the metric of "sustainability" needs to be interrogated and cast aside.
Scott J Hagley is Associate Professor of Missiology at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. He is the author of Eat What is Set Before You: A Missiology of the Congregation in Context.
Karen Rohrer is the director of the Center for Adaptive and Innovative Ministry at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. Before coming to Pittsburgh, she was an organizing co-pastor at Beacon, a new faith community in Philadelphia.
Michael Gehrling serves the Presbyterian Church (USA) as an associate for the 1001 New Worshipping Communities initiative. Before coming to this role, he was an organizing co-pastor of the Upper Room, a new faith community in Pittsburgh.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Inclusion often comes at the cost of excluding others, says Rev. Lori Tapia. In the interview, Lori talk about understanding church beyond simply faith development, but an extension of everyday life and family, encouraging churches to work together in new ways, highlighting the ways Hispanic churches are modeling these practices already and can be an example for predominately white churches. Lori also shares some of the things she's learned during this time of pandemic and offers some advice for churches moving foward.
Rev. Lori Tapia serves as the National Pastor for Hispanic Ministries of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the US and Canada, the first woman and first Mexican-American elected to this position. Additionally, Pastor Lori is a church planter, an author, a community activist and a public speaker. Lori serves with a passion for relevantly sharing Jesus, for empowering others, and for building and maintaining strong and faithful relationships, and healthy communities of faith. Lori received her Master in Divinity from Claremont School of Theology, receiving the prestigious Church of the Good Shepherd Preaching Award and the Disciples Seminary Foundation Award. Lori has over 25 years’ experience in community, family and social service programming.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Churches and nonprofits often struggle trying to figure out how to "market" themselves, often lamenting that they are the "best kept secret" in town. Marketing expert JJ Peterson joins the pod to talk about the four different categories of nonprofits, how each kind should market itself, and why non-profits should market and message like a for-profit. JJ also talks about the how the Storybrand framework, and how progressive churches can do a better job getting their message out.
Since 2013, Dr. J.J. Peterson has used the StoryBrand Framework to help thousands of organizations clarify their message in order to grow their business. He holds a PhD in Communication and has spent the last 20 years practicing and teaching communication theory. J.J. has studied C.S. Lewis in Oxford, debated theology with filmmakers at the Sundance Film Festival, directed a documentary, served in marketing and PR for two multinational non-profit organizations, served as a communication professor, and has spoken to thousands of people about creating a clear message. As the Sr. Director of StoryBrand, J.J. travels around the world facilitating StoryBrand workshops and keynotes, helping people grow their business.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Moving through Covid and into the future, a key question church leaders must figure out is what church planting will look like in the days ahead. Nick Warnes, leader of the Cyclical Inc, a church planting movement, joins the pod to talk about how Covid has changed the nature of church planting, how we solve the challenges of financial sustainability, and what he sees as the future of church planting.
Nicholas Warnes (Masters of Divinity, Fuller Theological Seminary, Emphasis in Worship Theology and Art) is the Founder and Executive Director of Cyclical. Nick is also a recognized speaker on church planting, coach for New Worshiping Communities with the Presbyterian Church USA, and is the chair of the board of the Church Planting Program at Fuller Theological Seminary where he is also an adjunct professor. Nick lives with his wife, Whitney, and son, Lee, in Los Angeles, CA. Nick co-edited Faithful Innovation: Beginning a Conversation for a Post-Covid Church, and has a new book Deconstructing Church Planting. Find the book and download a free chapter and free mini course at Cyclical Publishing.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Have you ever found yourself outwardly celebrating the big accomplishment of a friend, but inwardly bemoaning that you haven't reached your own goals and dreams? Heather Thompson Day, author, speaker, and professor, shares her own experiences wrestling with these feelings and talks about what inspired her new book, It's Not Your Turn. In our conversation, Heather talks about the challenges of social media and instant gratification, committing to the journey, and why maintaining our integrity is "all we have in life."
Dr. Heather Thompson Day is an interdenominational speaker and has been a contributor for Religion News Service, Christianity Today, Newsweek and the Barna Group. She is also the host of Viral Jesus, a podcast with Christianity Today. Heather is an Associate Professor of Communication at Andrews University. She is passionate about supporting women, and runs an online community called I’m That Wife which has over 200k followers. Heather’s writing has been featured on outlets like the Today Show, and the National Communication Association. She has been interviewed by BBC Radio Live and has been featured in Forbes. She believes her calling is to stand in the gaps of our churches for young people. She is the author of 7 books; including It’s Not Your Turn, and Confessions of a Christian Wife. She resides in Michigan, with her husband, Seth Day, and their three children, London, Hudson, and Sawyer Day. Connect with Heather on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
The power of story--especially sharing your story and hearing the stories of others--is both profound and sacred. Jose Martinez, creator of the StoryWagen joins the pod to talk about what the StoryWagen is, how it came to be, and how it impacts people. As a leader in new church ministry strategies, Jose also gives ideas for how church can incorporate more story-telling into their worship experiences and it he sees the future of the church gather as being less focused on sermons and centered more around shared story-telling.
Jose Martinez serves as the Associate Minister of New Church Ministry within the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) Additionally, he is co-planter of Multi Nation Christian Church, which is the largest and only Haitian Ministry in the Midwest for the Disciples of Christ and along with planting MissioKC Church. Co-vocationally, he is an endorsed Protestant Chaplain, at the 139th Airlift Wing in St. Joseph, Missouri and a chaplain with Truman Medical Center in Kansas City, Missouri.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
We turn the mike around this episode and talk to the host of the show, Loren Richmond Jr! Interviewed by Paul Romig-Leavitt, the intro voice and one of the producers of the show, Loren and talks about his church planting experience, why he resonates with Eeyore, and what makes him tick.
Loren is a pastor, podcaster, and social entrepreneur. Currently serving as a hospital chaplain, Loren is passionate about leading, serving, and creating to help churches better share the radical love and welcome of God's love made known in Jesus with their communities.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Shane Claiborne joins the show to talk guns and peacemaking. In the episode, we talk about gun idolatry in American, the reckoning we still have to face due to guns, and whether moving towards a way of peace is even possible. Shane also powerfully juxtaposes guns and the cross of Christ, pointing out that each represent two far different versions of power.
Shane Claiborne is a prominent speaker, activist, and best-selling author. Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless, and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence. Shane’s books include Jesus for President, Red Letter Revolution, and his newest book, Beating Guns, among many others.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Are you discerning your own purpose, accompanying others on their path, or leading organizational change? Stephen Lewis and Matthew Wesley Williams, authors of the book Another Way (with Dori Baker) talk about engaging wholeheartedly in profound change and learning to lead in a way that is deeply connected to your inner well-being as well as your communities of accountability.
Stephen Lewis is the president of the Forum for Theological Exploration (FTE), which focuses on cultivating a new generation of Christian leaders. He is also the creator of DO GOOD X, a social good accelerator for diverse Christian social entrepreneurs. Stephen is an ordained minister with more than fifteen years of experience in corporate and nonprofit leadership and strategy, organizational and program development, and group facilitation. His interest lies at the intersection of leadership, vocation, and leading change. He is passionate about helping the next generation of diverse leaders discover their purpose, passion and calling to make the world a better place.
Matthew Wesley Williams is the 11th President of the Interdenominational Theological Center (ITC), a historically Black ecumenical graduate theological school, located in the heart of Atlanta, GA. Williams is a recognized executive in the field of theological education who has built national programs and partnerships among top-level leaders to advance opportunities for institutional change, faculty development, doctoral education, leadership formation, young adult vocational discernment, diversity, equity, and inclusion in higher education.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Gabriel Gordon joins the pod to talk about his book God Speaks: A Participatory Theology of Biblical Inspiration. In our conversation, Gabriel talks about what he means by the term "Bible idolatry," why we need to stop equating God's Word with the Bible, and how the jelly donut is perfect analogy for understanding Jesus.
Gabriel graduated with a double major in Anthropology and Cross-Cultural Ministry from Oklahoma Baptist University. He is currently working on his Masters of Theological Studies with a specialization in Biblical Studies from Portland Seminary. He has authored two books and is featured in an edited volume of essays on Christian leadership. In addition, he is a confirmed member of the Episcopal church part of the worldwide Anglican Communion, a self-identified Anglo-Orthodox; and one of the co-founders of The Misfits Theology Club, a blog, podcast, and annual conference dedicated to providing a place of dialogue and working to build unity amongst diverse Christians. He currently lives in Grand Junction, Colorado, with his wife Hannah, and his dog Karl Barth.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Steve Ringelspaugh joins the pod to talk about how technology is helping churches impact their community and spread the love of God. Steve shares the story of Beautiful Redemption, a nonprofit that utilizes digital platforms so churches can more easily connect with and make a difference in the lives of people far beyond the walls of the physical church. Struggling to figure out how to reach your community in this new digital era? Listen in!
Steve is Director of Outreach for Beautiful Redemption, a ministry that connects faith communities, child welfare agencies, and individuals to help at-risk children. Steve and his wife, Katie have always had a passion for helping kids. After serving and leading in youth ministry, he realized that he was never going to impact an entire generation of kids by himself. From there, he began to dream about building a network of churches and individuals who could put aside differences to work together for the benefit of others.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Richard Stearns joins the pod to talk about his new book, Lead Like it Matters to God. In the conversation, we talk about how success can become an idol, the difference between faithfulness and failure, and how churches can better connect what happens on in worship on Sunday to what happens during the workweek on Monday.
Richard Stearns is president emeritus of World Vision US, where he served as president for twenty years, traveling more than three million miles as an advocate for the world's poor. Before leading the Christian relief and development organization, he was a corporate CEO at both Parker Brothers and Lenox. His bestselling book The Hole in Our Gospel was named the 2010 Christian Book of the Year. Among the honors Stearns received for his humanitarian service are five honorary doctoral degrees, the Julia Vadala Taft Outstanding Leadership Award from InterAction, and the Christian Leadership Alliance's highest honor. He and his wife, Reneé, have five adult children and six grandchildren, and live in Bellevue, Washington.
Lead like it matters to God podcast
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
H.L. Hix joins the pod to talk about his recent project, The Gospel, a new translation seeking to weave into one narrative all the canonical and non-canonical accounts of the life of Jesus. In the conversation, we talk about what inspired the project, the hermeneutic that guided his interpretive choices, and what he means by "translation inertia."
H.L. Hix teaches in the Philosophy and Religious Studies Department and the Creative Writing Program at a university in “one of those square states.” His website is www.hlhix.com. His recent books, in addition to The Gospel, include a poetry collection, Rain Inscription; an edition of selected poems by Estonian peasant poet Juhan Liiv, Snow Drifts, I Sing, translated with Jüri Talvet; and an essay collection, Demonstrategy.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
The Many, a worship band featuring Darren Calhoun, Leslie Michele, Hannah Rand, and Lenora Rand, join the show to talk about their music and share their thoughts on the "worship industry' within broader Christianity. They also share some thoughts about the role of music within worshipping communities and the importance of seeing music as just one element of worship.
The Many (themanyarehere.com) is a liturgically-grounded, new kind of worship band, an intentionally diverse collective creating music for people who want to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with a God who so loves the world. With a sound that resonates with gospel, pop, and folk, The Many’s feet-on-the-ground, heart-in-hands, scars-revealed, wild and holy music of resistance and hope have made them, over the last five years, a significant creative voice in the movement for inclusion, anti-racism and justice-building within the church and beyond.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
The Many, a worship band featuring Darren Calhoun, Leslie Michele, Hannah Rand, and Lenora Rand, join the show to talk about their music and share their thoughts on the "worship industry' within broader Christianity. They also share some thoughts about the role of music within worshipping communities and the importance of seeing music as just one element of worship.
The Many (themanyarehere.com) is a liturgically-grounded, new kind of worship band, an intentionally diverse collective creating music for people who want to do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with a God who so loves the world. With a sound that resonates with gospel, pop, and folk, The Many’s feet-on-the-ground, heart-in-hands, scars-revealed, wild and holy music of resistance and hope have made them, over the last five years, a significant creative voice in the movement for inclusion, anti-racism and justice-building within the church and beyond.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Chris Benek joins the pod to talk techno-theology, Christian transhumanism, and the biggest challenges and opportunities for churches as they make use of tech. In the conversation, Chris separates science from science-fiction, and tells why he sees the future as an incredible digital mission field.
Rev. Dr. Christopher J. Benek is a follower of Jesus Christ, a pastor, husband, and father. He is also a global emerging tech & theology expert who is internationally known for his social and religious analysis and commentary. He is widely recognized as a techno-theologian, futurist, ethicist, Christian Transhumanist, public speaker, writer and tech pastor. He is the lead clergy expert regarding Artificial Intelligence in the world.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Bruce Reyes-Chow joins the pod to talk about the importance of kindness, explains how its different from being "nice," and navigates the complexity between kindness and privilege. He also shares how he was re-inspired to pickup the project after watching the documentary on fellow Presbyterian pastor Mr. Rogers, who himself inspired many to confront justice and hold systems accountable without attacking the person.
Rev. Bruce Reyes-Chow is a 3rd generation Chinese/Filipino who is deeply committed to the intersection between faith, politics, and social justice. Bruce has been a Presbyterian Pastor for over 25 years serving a diversity of congregations in the San Francisco Bay Area. Bruce hosts the podcast, BRC & Friends, is a Gallup Certified Strengths Coach, and is a Senior Consultant and Coach with the Emergence Network. He is the author of five books, most recently, In Defense of Kindness: Why It Matters, How It Changes Our Lives, and How It Can Save the World (Chalice Press 2021).
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Carla Leon joins the pod to talk about social - or spiritual as she likes to call it - enterprise, how she sees spiritual enterprise as a "new religion" for millenials, and why church has to re-examine what she calls the "book, box, preacher" model and make more space for the many, many different kids of spiritual practices that exist.
Carla is Innovation & Special Projects co-ordinator for the EDGE - A Network for Ministry Development at the United Church of Canada where she has launched a central procurement platform, an innovation fund, the Social Innovation Challenge and most recently a coaching program to help communities of faith re-imagine who they are in community. She works directly in supporting their 400 new initiatives that have been funded through their innovation fund, the 600 social innovations that have launched through the Social Innovation Challenge, and working directly with communities of faith to help them reimagine church outside of Sunday.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Since the tragic events of 9/11, many Americans-and especially Christian Americans-have looked at Muslims as different and perhaps even dangerous. In this conversation with author Rachel Pieh Jones, we talk about the spiritual darkness of...America, how learning about other religions can bring us closer to our own, and the benefits of inter-faith conversation and worship.
Rachel Pieh Jones is the author of How Muslim Friends Led Me Closer to Jesus. Additional books she has authored include Stronger than Death, Finding Home, Djiboutilicious, The Expat Cookbook, and Welcome to Djibouti. Her work appears in the New York Times, Runners World, Christianity Today, Deadspin, and so many other places. She writes and speaks about life at the crossroads of faith and culture. She aims to challenge people to live brave, love wild, and believe goodness while leaping outside their comfort zones.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Pastor, author, and consultant Rev. Cameron Trimble joins the pod to talk about the work of Convergence, the ministry she leads, what progressive church planting looks like, and how she sees Covid effecting church planting and re-vitalization going forward.
Rev. Cameron Trimble is the Executive Director and CEO of Convergence (formerly the Center for Progressive Renewal), an organization created to recruit, assess, train and coach innovative, entrepreneurial leaders for the church. She began her ministry as a new church developer and, to pay for her “ministry habit”, also owns a real estate company and a software company.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In this conversation, Melissa talks about the idea behind her new book, How to Have an Enemy and what she means when she says "enemy." Melissa also talks about power imbalances in conflict, communal vs. individual anger, and how to properly love an enemy. Melissa also believes that the "work of liberation is to create a world where enemies are freed from enacting harm" and that drives her work.
Melissa is the pastor of Raleigh Mennonite Church, and a graduate of Duke University and Princeton Theological Seminary. She spent times studying in Israel/Palestine, Kenya, and England. Much of her formation took place in the L'Arche community of Portland, OR. Now she prefers the Eno River and her garden in Raleigh, NC. She is the chair of L'Arche North Carolina and a steering committee member in broad-based organizing in her county. Melissa's writing has appeared in Christian Century, Sojourners, Geez, Anabaptist Witness, The Bias, Faith&Leadership, and Anabaptist Vision. From time to time she publishes academic writing. She and her spouse parent three children.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
On an outing with his wife to a blacksmith shop, Tod Bolsinger realized that the very real challenging and laborious process he was working through to shape metal was a great metaphor for challenges and pressures the leaders must undergo to become what he calls the "tempered leader." Applying the blacksmithing process, in this interview, Bolsinger talks through the six steps to becoming a tempered leader by working, heating, holding, hammering, hewing, and tempering.
Tod Bolsinger (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is a speaker, executive coach, former pastor, and author who serves as associate professor of leadership formation and senior fellow for the De Pree Center for Leadership at Fuller Seminary. A frequent speaker and consultant, he serves as an executive coach for corporate, nonprofit, educational, and church organizations in transformational leadership. For seventeen years, he was the senior pastor of San Clemente Presbyterian Church in San Clemente, California, after serving for ten years at First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In our conversation with Rev. Julian “J.Kwest” DeShazier, a pastor, runner, and former marathoner, we talk about our unique calls to ministry (and marathoning), the sacrifice of our families, the toll that it takes on our body, mind, and spirit, how to find balance in ministry (and running), and knowing when to quit.
As a national speaker, advocate and emcee, Julian “J.Kwest” DeShazier has appeared on ABC, FOX, NPR and Dr. Maya Angelou’s “Oprah & Friends” radio program. J.Kwest (jay-quest) is also an Emmy Award-winning musician. The Chicago native and graduate of Morehouse College and the University of Chicago is also pastor of University Church. DeShazier is associate director of the Office of Experiential Education at McCormick Theological Seminary and is a Leadership Greater Chicago fellow.
See his original blog post here:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In the interview, we talk with pastor and author Steve Cuss about Family Systems Theory, the trauma leaders have experienced over the last year, some of the tools available to help leaders manage their own anxiety and lead well, and how he enjoys helping leaders break long stuck patterns in themselves and their organizations.
Steve has a Master of Divinity from Emmanuel Christian Seminary where he focused on Hebrew Scriptures and Family Systems. Since 2005, Steve has served as Lead Pastor of Discovery Christian Church in Broomfield, Colorado. Steve grew up in Perth, Western Australia and is married with two sons and a daughter.
His book: Managing Leadership Anxiety Capable Life
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In this podcast interview, Lamar Hardwick shares a theology of the body, talks about the real purpose behind Jesus’ healings, gives important lessons from the Parable of the Sower, and shares how the image of communion and the table present an amazing opportunity for us to live out our theology, from his book Disability and the Church: A Vision for Diversity and Inclusion.
Lamar Hardwick has a DMin from Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary and is known as "the autism pastor." He is the lead pastor at Tri-Cities Church in East Point, Georgia. He is the author of Epic Church and the best-selling I Am Strong: The Life and Journey of an Autistic Pastor. He provides workshops, seminars, and consults with local churches and faith-based organizations on creating environments for people with autism. He also provides mentoring services for teens and young adults on the autism spectrum. He lives in Newnan, Georgia, with his wife, Isabella, and their three children.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In this latest episode of the podcast, Michael Shepherd explains the “homogenous unit principle,” talks about this guy named Don McGavran, and shares his thoughts on why the so-called “Church-growth” movement has likely run out of gas and needs to be re-examined completely.
Michael is an adjunct prof of intercultural studies and political science at Hope International University in Fullerton, CA. He did his graduate studies in community development and nonprofit management at Hope and then intercultural studies at Fuller Theological Seminary. His background is in nonprofit management and community organizing, and is the Minister of Social Action at First Christian Church of Fullerton, in Orange County, CA.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
In our conversation, Reegie talks more about Abolitionist Theology, how his passion for freedom and abolition drives his work, and what he is working on right now to bring about Black liberation. Reegie is the Amos Project Organizer for the northeast area of Ohio where he builds power with faith leaders across Cuyahoga, Ashtabula, and Erie Counties. He came home to Ohio in 2020 after years of organizing in Nashville, TN and Los Angeles, CA.
Rev. Reegie Bunch has a Master of Divinity from Vanderbilt and a BA in Theology and Bible from American Baptist College. A military veteran, Reegie is committed to the liberation of Black folks and Black communities. Reegie recently launched Dignity & Divinity with the help of the National Benevolent Association, an abolitionist movement rooted in community power towards the goal of achieving transformative justice and healing justice for all incarcerated people, their families, and communities.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Chris shares what she has been doing to help churches during this time, what the biggest challenges they are experiencing, and what advice and ideas she is offering to churches post-Covid.
Rev. Dr. Chris S. Davies is Team Leader of Faith Education, Innovation, and Formation, Justice and Local Church Ministries at the national setting for the United Church of Christ. In her position, Chris connects with faith leaders across the country and has served with churches at the local, regional, and national levels. She is a Connecticut native and a Cleveland transplant. She loves the church deeply and is committed to finding ways to continue to bring the gospel into the world. She attended Smith College for her undergrad work and Andover Newton for both a Masters of Divinity and Doctor of Ministry.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
Douglas Powe, author of the book The Adept Church, talks about how churches can move from slow and stagnant to nimble and adept. In the podcast, Doug shares important thoughts and insights from his book, especially how churches can move from stagnation to transformation.
Douglas Powe, Jr. is an ordained elder in the Baltimore/Washington Annual Conference of The United Methodist Church. He is the Director of the Lewis Center for Church Leadership and professor of evangelism and of urban ministry at Wesley Theological Seminary. Powe is committed to helping urban congregations and congregations in transitional areas to flourish through community partnering. His research interest are church revitalization, urban theology and Methodist theology. He holds an MDiv from Candler School of Theology and a PhD in systematic theology from Emory University.
Buy his book from Cokesbury or Amazon!
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Rev. Mark Elsdon joins the pod to talk about his new book, We Aren’t Broke: Uncovering Hidden Resources for Mission and Ministry. He talks about how the book was inspired by his own church’s journey from decline and decay into vital mission and ministry by uncovering hidden resources and strategically utilizing them to advance mission. Mark also shares ideas about how we can begin to see these resources for ourselves and how we can overcome the scarcity mindset.
Mark Elsdon lives and works at the intersection of money and meaning as an entrepreneur, pastor, consultant, and speaker. He is cofounder of RootedGood, which seeks to create more good in the world through social innovation; executive director at Pres House on the University of Wisconsin's Madison campus; and owner of Elsdon Strategic Consulting. Mark is president of the board of directors of Working Capital for Community Needs (WCCN) an impact investing fund that provides micro-finance for the working poor in Latin America.
Mark has a BA in Psychology from UC Berkeley, a Master of Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary, and an MBA from the University of Wisconsin School of Business. Mark is an ordained minister in the Presbyterian Church, USA, and lives in Madison, Wisconsin with his spouse and two daughters. He is an avid cyclist and considers it a good year when he rides more miles on his bike than he drives in his car.
Mark is donating 100% of author proceeds from the sale of We Aren’t Broke to nonprofit organizations engaging in creative solutions to address the “wicked” problems he writes about in the book.
Get a copy of Mark’s book here:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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In the interview, Tim walks through the nine important questions he asks the perspective church planter to consider. For anyone who as ever considered starting a church, leading a church through revitalization, or even whether or not to enter pastoral ministry these are questions you need to consider beforehand—lest it cost you your soul!
Tim Morey is the author of Planting a Church Without Losing Your Soul: Nine Questions for the Spiritually Formed Pastor. Tim is founding and lead pastor at Life Covenant Church in Torrance, California. He serves as a church planting coach for the Evangelical Covenant Church and as an adjunct professor at Fuller Theological Seminary.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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In our podcast interview, Daniel walks through the song, sharing his thoughts and feelings behind the words of the songs. He talks about his early experiences in which growing up and why he does not simply want to leave the Church, but rather invite those he believes to be wayward to “come home.”
Daniel Deitrich is a singer/songwriter based in South Bend, Indiana. His honest, heartbreaking, yet hopeful writing finds a home in massive Americana anthems, catchy Indie rock hooks, as well as intimate acoustic confessionals. Learn more about Deitrich and his music by visiting his website.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Crow Eddy joins the pod to talk about integrating Christianity with Native Spirituality. We talk about the work of the Center for Indigenous Ministries (DOC), the ways he's incorporated Native Spirituality into his church community, and the way that Christianity has been--and still does--oppress indigenous populations. He also talks about his art!
Crow Eddy is an artist, drum carrier, and Mi’kmaq person living in Novia Scotia, Canada. Crow regularly writes and lectures on Mi’kmaq spirituality and healing circles. He is a member of the North American council on Truth and Reconciliation called the Centre for Indigenous Ministries (D.O.C.) Council. He seeks to "build bridges to our ancient culture and our living people."
Winter talk - https://disciples.org/event/winter-talk-2020/
Article - https://disciples.org/congregations/canada-church-hosts-healing-circle-reconciliation/
Yakama mission - https://yakamamission.org
Centre for Indiginous Ministry (D.O.C.) https://www.facebook.com/DisciplesStanding/ The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Ryan Panzer, author and hybrid ministry consultant, joins the pod to talk about his new book, Grace and Gigabytes: Being Church in a Tech Shaped World. In the book, Panzer talks about why being church is not about technology but engagement and why churches are not failing to adapt to technology, but rather are failing to adapt to meaning making.
Ryan is a learning and leadership development professional in the technology industry. A student of digital media and its influence on our lives, he is especially interested in the intersection of faith and technology.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Author and podcaster Jared Byas talks about his new book Love Matters More, which talks about how fighting to be right keeps us from loving like Jesus. In our conversation, we talk about theological trauma, why truth is a poor guide to love, and why if it doesn't set you free--it isn't truth.
Jared Byas is cohost of the popular podcast The Bible for Normal People and coauthor of the book Genesis for Normal People. A former teaching pastor and professor of philosophy and biblical studies, Jared lives with his wife, Sarah, outside of Philadelphia, PA, with their four children.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Bethany Dearborn Hiser, trauma-informed soul care provider and author of From Burned Out to Beloved: Soul Care for Wounded Healers joins the pod to talk about overwork, burnout, and knowing when to stay or when to go. For many in "caring professions" like counselors, activists, social workers, and pastors, taking time away to recharge and renew oneself can be seen as unnecessary and privileged. Bethany shares why this attitude not only is wrong, but it's also dangerous.
Bethany currently works as the Director of Soul Care for Northwest Family Life, a network of therapists trained to work with survivors of domestic violence and sexual trauma. As a bilingual social worker, chaplain, and pastoral advocate, she has worked in a variety of ministry and social service settings with people affected by addiction, sexual exploitation, incarceration, and immigration.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Kathy Escobar joins the pod to tell the story of The Refuge, a Christian community and resource center, while also sharing some insights on future models of church and what churches can and should do to respond to the changes brought on by Covid.
Along with being a co-pastor at The Refuge, Kathy is a trained spiritual director, speaker, writer, group facilitator, and advocate, her passion is for those on the margins of life and faith and creating brave, safe spaces for healing and transformation in community. A Pepperdine University graduate, she has a Master’s in Management with an emphasis in Organizational Development from JFK University and a Certificate in Spiritual Direction from Denver Seminary.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Brian McLaren joins the pod to talk about his new book Faith After Doubt: Why Your Beliefs Stopped Working and What to Do About It. We talk about the book, the disruption taking place with culture and Christianity, and what future church might look like.
Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. Brian has been active in networking and mentoring church planters and pastors since the mid 1980’s, and has assisted in the development of several new churches. He is a popular conference speaker and a frequent guest lecturer for denominational and ecumenical leadership gatherings – across the US and Canada, Latin America, Europe, Africa, and Asia. His public speaking covers a broad range of topics including postmodern thought and culture, Biblical studies, church leadership and spiritual formation, pastoral survival and burnout, inter-religious dialogue, and global crises.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Rev. Dr. Josѐ Francisco Morales Torres, joins the pod to talk about the less-white future of Christianity, LatinX Christianity, and why he doesn't like the term LatinX itself.
Josѐ is an Assistant Professor of Latinx Studies and Religion at Chicago Theological Seminary. He is an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). His ministry experience is broad, including congregational pastorate, advocacy, community organizing, wider denominational leadership, and education. He is also a DJ in his spare time, with house music being his genre of choice.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Karen Rohrer joins the pod to talk about the church planting in mainline churches, different church planting models, and whether or not there is an "ideal" church planter.
Rev. Karen Rohrer is the director of the Church Planting Initiative at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary where she teaches and mentors cohorts on how to be wise, thoughtful, and relevant leaders. Rohrer is co-editor of the new book Sustaining Grace: Innovative Ecosystems for New Faith Communities. Rohrer is a graduate of University of Mary Washington (BA) and Princeton Theological Seminary (M.Div.). She is ordained in the Presbyterian Church USA and has won awards for her entrepreneurial faith leadership. Additionally she serves as a coach in the 1001 New Worshiping Communities initiative of the PCUSA.
Link to Church Planting Certificate
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Terrell McTyer joins the pod to talk about how to overcome gaps in funding and imagination to be innovative and creative in new church and church re-vitalization ministry contexts. He also shares his thoughts on how Covid will affect church and church-planting efforts in the future.
Pastor Terrell McTyer serves as the Minister of New Church Strategies for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) in the United States and Canada. He works to teach, equip, assist and multiply leaders and congregations through New Church Ministry to increase missional efficacy and efficiency towards starting sustainable, world-changing churches and making disciples. His mission is to equip leaders to equip leaders.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Jennifer Knapp joins the pod to talk about theology, LGBT inclusion, and the evolution of the Christian music industry over the last 20 years. Oh, and we talked just a little bit about music! Find more about her music here:
Jennifer Knapp is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, author, speaker and advocate. Her impressive history includes selling over one million albums with her first three releases Kansas (debut 1998, Gold-certified), Lay It Down (2000), and The Way I Am (2001). As the first major artist in the Christian music world to speak openly about LGBTQ identity, her unique position created opportunities for national dialogue. A true Renaissance woman, Knapp recently completed a Master’s Degree in Theological Studies at Vanderbilt Divinity School.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Thomas Jay Oord joins the pod to talk about Open and Relational Theology, which asserts that God’s primary characteristic is love, Theology involves humble speculation about who God truly is and what God really does, and Creatures – at least humans – are genuinely free to make choices pertaining to their salvation. Read more about Open Theology here:
Thomas Jay Oord is a theologian, philosopher, and scholar of multi-disciplinary studies. Oord is a best-selling and award-winning author, having written or edited more than twenty-five books. He directs a doctoral program at Northwind Theological Seminary and the Center for Open and Relational Theology. A twelve-time Faculty Award-winning professor, Oord teaches at institutions around the globe. Oord is known for his contributions to research on love, open and relational theology, science and religion, and the implications of freedom and relationships for transformation.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Marlena Graves joins the pod to talk about her book The Way Up is Down: Becoming Yourself by Forgetting Yourself. In the interview, we talk about poverty, suffering, and kenosis (emptying). But, it's not all sackcloth and ashes! Marlena shares her beautiful story about God's "happy eyes," and what it means to truly understand God's deep love and care for us and God's children.
Marlena is a writer, deep thinker, and speaker who is passionate about the eternal implications of our life in God. She is a lover of beauty - especially the beauty of her family, others, and creation. Marlena is a justice seeker—trying to overcome evil with good. In addition, she seeks answers to these types of questions: What does abundant life look like (John 10:10)? Marlena speaks regularly to congregations, university campuses, and to retreatants about the implications of following Jesus. Marlena loves to laugh and be around others and then recover in silence and solitude! To learn more about Marlena or get a copy of her book, click here!
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Nikole Lim joins the pod to talk about her book, Liberation Is Here: Women Uncovering hope in a Broken World. Nikole shares her experiences as a nonprofit leader and filmmaker and offers practical wisdom on on dealing with the burden that comes with helping others and knowing when to "fix" and when to "feel with."
Nikole is a speaker, educator, and consultant on leveraging dignity through the restorative art of storytelling. She is the founder and international director of Freely In Hope, a nonprofit organization dedicated to equipping survivors and advocates to lead in ending sexual violence through their rewritten stories.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Dr. Chuck DeGroat joins the pod to talk about his book, When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. We talk about what narcissism is and the danger it can be in pastors and church planters, as well as what it looks like for pastors to lead in a healthy way.
Chuck DeGroat is Professor of Pastoral Care and Christian Spirituality at Western Theological Seminary, MI, and Senior Fellow at Newbigin House of Studies, San Francisco. He is an author, speaker, writer, consultant, and therapist.
Chuck is committed to spiritual and emotional formation for the sake of mission. His experience is represented in a fluid combination of pastoral ministry and seminary training for 20 years. He has served several church plants as a teaching pastor and has started two church-based clinical counseling centers. Most recently, he was a teaching pastor at City Church San Francisco, where he co-founded Newbigin House of Studies, an urban and missional training center with offerings through Western Theological Seminary.
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Rev. Dr. Derek Penwell joins the pod to talk about his book Outlandish: An Unlikely Messiah, a Messy Ministry, and the Call to Mobilize. The book shows how Jesus's ministry flew in the face of conventional wisdom but succeeded beyond anyone's wildest dreams. Fast-forwarding two thousand years, learn from the political, social, and organizational lessons of Jesus's radically different ministry to help change the world today.
Derek is a pastor, author, and activist unashamedly offering his support in the pursuit of justice for LGBTQ people, Muslims, people of color, immigrants, and those people regularly dumped on by the tools who always seem to find themselves in charge of everything. You can find out more about Derek here, and get a copy of his book here.
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Looking for inspiration for Lent or some other season of the church year? Rev. Gwynn Garrity shares the story of Sanctified Art, a a ministry supporting worshiping communities in integrating art and creativity into their spiritual practices.
Lisle Gwynn Garrity (she/her/hers) is a Pastorist (pastor + artist), retreat leader, and creative entrepreneur seeking to fill the church with more color, paint, mystery, and creativity. In the midst of a rapidly reforming church landscape, she is convinced that new models for ministry are emerging all over the place, we just have to be willing to discover and pursue them. She founded A Sanctified Art with the conviction that, in order to thrive, the church needs more creative expression and art-filled freedom.
Get 10% off their latest Lent offerings with the promo code "FUTURE"
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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In our current culture of conflict, we need a better way of relating to each other and responding to today's controversial issues--a way that transcends political partisanship and emphasizes universal care, mutual concern, and the flourishing of the common good. Rev. Mark Feldmeir talks about his book A House Divided and shares how the politics of compassion can help us find shared values on today's most divisive issues and inspire us to find practical solutions and heal our divisions.
Rev. Mark Feldmeir has served as Senior Pastor at Saint Andrew United Methodist Church in Highlands Ranch, CO since 2014. He previously led United Methodist congregations in San Diego and Orange County, CA. Mark has served on the Adjunct Faculty at Claremont School of Theology, lectured at various conferences throughout the country on topics ranging from preaching, leadership, and pop culture, and is the author of three previous books. To buy the book:
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Whether you're looking to start of the new year strong or trying to break out of the rut you've been in for some time, according to author and speaker Dan Gomer, "The power to change the world lies within you and your choice to simply try." In this podcast, Dan shares more about what the "it" is he's full of, why we are too, and how we can change the world together.
Dan Gomer is driven by a passion to help others discover an empowering vision for themselves and create the life of their dreams. Leveraging his background as a science teacher, basketball coach, real estate investor and business developer, Dan takes great joy in inspiring people through his writing and speaking. Dan lives in Highlands Ranch, Colorado with his wife and two kids. Dan's book is available for purchase on Amazon.
To learn more about Dan: dangomer.com
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Nicole is the Pastor for Mission Development at Westview Church, an ELCA Worshiping Community in Boulder CO. Westview is a re-start/re-plant from what was Mt. Calvary Lutheran Church in Boulder. Nicole shares her own personal journey to ministry as well as her experiences leading the church through the transition and into a new future.
Rev. Nicole Garcia has a Master of Divinity from Luther Seminary in St. Paul MN and a Master of Arts in Counseling from CU Denver. She is a Licensed Professional Counselor in the state of Colorado and continues to work quarter-time as a therapist and clinical supervisor with the Umbrella Collective in Boulder. Nicole is currently serving as the president of the outside council of New Beginnings Worshipping Community, an ELCA congregation within the Denver Women’s Correctional Facility.
Read more about Nicole here:
Westview Church:
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Darryl Searuggs joins the pid to talk about his work leading the Reconciliation Ministry of the Central Rocky Mountain Region of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).
Rev. Darryl Searuggs is the Regional Reconciliation Minister of the Central Rocky Mountain Region of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). He's a Air Force Vet, retired pilot for FedEx, and a graduate of Iliff School of Theology in Denver.
The CRMR Reconciliation Ministry is committed to being part of the structure that assists pastors and church leaders in shepherding the healthy community Jesus represents and God calls us to be contributors in.
To learn more, visit: http://www.crmrdoc.org/
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media. Support the Pod here!
Jenny Whitcher of Juniper Formation joins the pod to talk about her work helping churches prophetically reimagine through relationship, discernment, renewal, healing, and prophetic action.
Rev. Dr. Jenny Whitcher (she/her) is the Minister of Prophetic Formation at Sixth Avenue United Church of Christ in Denver, Colorado, and founder of Juniper Formation.
Jenny is an entrepreneurial minister, community organizer, and theologian committed to social justice. She has over 15 years of experience coaching and mentoring leaders, teaching, and developing community partnerships. Her work spans nonprofit, congregations, and higher education. Her areas of expertise include: change management; entrepreneurial and prophetic ministry formation; democratic culture, leadership, and pedagogy; and social change theory and practice.
To learn more, visit: https://www.juniperformation.org/
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Paula Stone Williams joins the pod to talk about progressive Christian church planting and what churches need to think about going forward from Covid.
Paula Stone Williams is an internationally-known speaker on issues of gender equity, LGBTQ advocacy, and religious tolerance. She has been featured in TEDWomen, TEDSummit, TEDxMileHigh, the New York Times, Red Table Talk, the Denver Post, the New York Post, New Scientist Magazine, Radio New Zealand, and NPR. Her TED talks have had over five million views.
To learn more about Paula, visit her website https://paulastonewilliams.com/
Her church, https://www.lefthandchurch.org/
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Sarah Jackson is the founder and executive director of Casa de Paz, a hospitality home in Denver, Colorado. Casa’s family of more than 2,000 volunteers ministers to immigrants and families separated by detention with visits, meals, shelter, transportation, and emotional support through the arduous process of reunification. Sarah’s mission is to help end the isolating experience of immigrant detention one simple act of love at a time.
Learn more about Casa de Paz here: https://www.casadepazcolorado.org/
Check out Sarah's book here: https://www.zondervan.com/author/6553/sarah-jackson/
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Amanda Udis-Kessler joins the pod to talks her project "Queer Sacred Music," a resource for anyone who is socially marginalized and institutionally punished, AND ALSO for anyone with power, status, and privilege who wishes to live in solidarity with the oppressed, devalued, and threatened.
Amanda is a hymnwriter, songwriter, composer, and writer who specializes in music and lyrics for liberal/progressive religious people and communities, including inclusive, social justice-minded Christians, Unitarian Universalists, and other open-hearted religious traditions. Amanda's religious music is in use across the US and in Canada, the UK, South Africa, and New Zealand.
https://queersacredmusic.com/home
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Rev. Dr. Stephany Rose Spaulding joins the pod to talk about her work with the Truth and Conciliation Commission, and how each and every person can be a repairer of the breach with the resources we already have.
Pastor Stephany is a well sought out keynote speaker; respected commentator on social and political issues; and a popular diversity, equity and inclusion workshop facilitator. Drawing on her thorough academic training as a critical race and gender scholar, as well as her work in public advocacy, she is a refreshing voice in justice and liberation practices.
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Pastor David Petty joins the pod to talk about CrossFire Gaming, a project he helped create, that seeks to provide alternative spaces and opportunities for people to connect with God and with one another.
Rev. David Petty currently serves as the pastor of Meeker UMC and is the founder of CROSSFIRE: faith+gaming. He enjoys spending time with his family and loves the great outdoors.
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Dwight Zscheile joins the pod to talk about disintegration and decline in the mainline church and why he sees churches as having an opportunity to rediscover their identity. Rev. Dr. Dwight Zscheile is the Vice President of Innovation and Associate Professor of Congregational Mission and Leadership at Luther Seminary.
We talk about an article he wrote a couple years back on decline in the Lutheran church and it's application to the wider church at large.
https://faithlead.luthersem.edu/decline/
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DL Mayfield joins the pod to talk about her book The Myth of The American Dream and the problems with white, middle class, evangelical theology.
D. L. Mayfield lives and writes on the outskirts of Portland, OR with her husband and two small children. She is trying very hard to be a good neighbor. To learn more about her work: http://www.dlmayfield.com/menu
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Jay Bakker talks about trauma, suffering, celebrity pastors and more totally random questions that Loren sprung on him! A really great conversation you need to check out. Props to Jay for being willing to answer questions off the cuff!
Jay speaks to congregations and other groups all over the country about faith, grace, and his experiences with the underbelly of life and Christianity.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Natalie Wigg-Stevenson joins the pod to talk about what it is Ethnographic theology and why pastors and church leaders would benefit from putting it into practice more often.
Dr. Wigg-Stevenson is Associate Professor of Contextual Education and Theology at Emmanuel College, where she directs the MDiv and Contextual Education Programs. Her current research delves into how ethnographic methods could help create theological conversations across church, academy and everyday life. She is also interested in liturgical, feminist and queer theologies, cultural theories of practice, aesthetics, pop culture, and in decolonizing pedagogies.
Her new book, Transgressive Devotion: Theology as Performance Art, comes out in February, 2021.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Nikki Frontz joins the pod talks about innovative ministry in a time of intense disruption.
Rev. Nikki Frontz Community and Spiritual Leader (Pastor) at of Solomon's Porch in Minneapolis. She is a creative out of the box thinker and doer that thrives on possibility. She loves to boldly inspire people to their fullest potential by empowering them and by challenging the status quo.
https://www.solomonsporch.com/team
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Author and activist Ally Henny talks openly and honestly about the pain, hurt, and heartache caused by church--and why she still believes in church.
Ally Henny is a writer and speaker. She holds a B.S. in Psychology from Missouri State University and is currently pursuing her Master of Divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary, with an emphasis in Race, Cultural Identity, and Reconciliation. She hopes to pastor a church someday.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Seminary President Nancy Pittman joins the pod to talk about how Covid is hastening change and reshaping in theological education and why pastors and church leaders should continue to invest in it.
Currently, Dr. Pittman is President and Stephen J. England Associate Professor of the Practice of Ministry at Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, an ecumenical seminary affiliated with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). In her spare time, she laughs with her family, reads novels, and embroiders flowers. www.ptstulsa.edu
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Pastor and Author Eric H.F. Law joins the pod to talk about is book, "Fear Not: Living Grace and Truth in a Frightened World." He shares how others seek to manipulate our fears to suite their needs, whereas Jesus shows us how to manage our fears to help us grow.
Eric H. F. Law, an Episcopal priest, is the founder and executive director of the Kaleidoscope Institute, the mission of which is to create diverse and sustainable communities. For more than 20 years, he has provided transformative and comprehensive training and resources for churches and ministries in all the major church denominations in the United States and Canada. He writes a weekly blog called The Sustainist: Spirituality for Sustainable Communities in a Networked World. Visit his blog at http://ehflaw.typepad.com/blog/.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Pastor and Author Carol Howard Merritt talks about what religious trauma is and how theology and structures can perpetuate harm against our most vulnerable.
Rev. Carol Howard Merritt (@CarolHoward) is a minister whose writing, speaking, and teaching is anchored in theological wisdom and sociological insight. She’s a sought-after keynote speaker, especially on the topic of ministering in a new generation.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Ashley Easter joins the pod to talk about how learning to trust her own intuition and why you should to.
Ashley is a speaker and coach specializing in abuse prevention and recovery. To learn more about her story and her current work, visit her website.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Paul and Justin, two former evangelical worship leaders now serving in progressive, mainline protestant churches, talk about everything from worship being more than just the music to practical steps churches can make to improve their overall experience.
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Author and historian Diana Butler Bass joins the pod to talk about what Christianity today can learn from Church history, especially when it comes to navigating disruption and change.
Diana Butler Bass is an American historian of Christianity and an advocate for progressive Christianity. Bass is currently an independent scholar who writes on American religion and culture. She is the author of eleven books, many of which have won research or writing awards.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Delesslyn Kennebrew joins the pod to talk about her work helping leaders and churches explore beyond their own imaginations and live into that new reality.
Delesslyn is the Regional Minister for Ministry Innovation at Greater Kansas City Region of the CC(DOC).
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Loren talks with Pastor and author Doug Pagitt about hats, church, and living out Jesus' promise of "Greater Than."
Doug Pagitt is an American author, pastor, social activist and executive director of Vote Common Good. A leading voice for progressive Christianity, Doug makes frequent national media and speaking appearances. His new book, Outdoing Jesus, is available now from Eerdmans Publishing.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Author and pastor Jack Shitama gives a primer on Family Systems Theory and how it can help leaders deal with and respond to anxiety in church and other organizations.
Jack is the Executive Director of Pecometh Camp & Retreat Ministries where he has served since 2000. He is an ordained elder in The United Methodist Church and has served as pastor of churches in Port Deposit, MD and Chesapeake City, MD. Learn more about his Family Systems coaching here.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Author, Pastor, and interfaith leader Amanda Henderson joins the pod to talk about her book Holy Chaos and finding the sacred in the midst of the disruption and disarray.
An Ordained Minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), where she has served as a pastor and continues to preach and teach in multiple communities, Rev. Henderson is also highly respected as a community leader in Denver, Colorado. She has been recognized for her work in bringing people together for healing in times of tragedy and mobilizing people to action in times of injustice. Amanda is the Director of the Institute for Religion, Politics, and Culture at Iliff School of Theology.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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While most progressive Christians feel largely ambivalent about him, Eric Smith makes that case that so much of what we think we know about Paul is wrong.
Eric teaches at the Iliff School of Theology in Denver, where he is Assistant Professor of Early Christianity and Contemporary Christian Practices. The author of three books including his most recent book, Paul the Progressive? The Compassionate Christian’s Guide to Reclaiming the Apostle as an Ally, from Chalice Press
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Katie joins the Future Christian Pod to talk about the story of Galileo Church and her new book, We Were Refugees.
Katie Hays, planter-pastor of Galileo Church, shares the story of departing from the traditional church for the frontier of the spiritual-but-not-religious and building community with Jesus-loving (or at least Jesus-curious) outsiders. Now well-established, Galileo Church “seeks and shelters spiritual refugees” in the suburbs of Fort Worth, Texas—especially young adults, LGBTQ+ people, and all the people who love them.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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Eric talks about his new book, On Earth as it is in Heaven, and how economic activism is living out one's Christian faith.
Rev. Dr. Eric Atcheson is an ordained pastor in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Eric is a parish minister by training who has dedicated himself through his preaching, speaking, and writing to his calling as a prophetic and pastoral voice rooted in the Scriptures. A wordsmith and storyteller, Eric believes in the grace and truth found in the logos, the Word. His preaching and teaching on God’s Word aims to reflect that grace and truth. And as a descendant of Armenian Genocide survivors, Eric's ethnic identity is woven into his passion for social justice and human rights.
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Brandan talks about his journey of faith and his new book Nomad.
Rev. Brandan Robertson is a noted author, activist, and public theologian, working at the intersections of spirituality and social renewal. A prolific writer, he is the author or contributing author to fifteen books on spirituality, justice, and theology, including INDIES Book of the Year Award Finalist True Inclusion: Creating Communities of Radical Embrace and the best-selling devotional Strength In Faith. He writes regularly for Patheos, and has bylines in TIME Magazine, San Diego Union Tribune, The Huffington Post, NBC, and The Washington Post. As a trusted voice on progressive faith and politics, Robertson is regularly interviewed in national and global media outlets including National Public Radio, The Independent UK, The New York Times, and POLITICO.
The Future Christian Podcast is a production of Torn Curtain Arts and Resonate Media.
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