Sound Plus Doctrine: Recent Episodes
Sovereign Grace Music
Sound Plus Doctrine, hosted by Bob Kauflin and David Zimmer, is the podcast of Sovereign Grace Music, designed for those who plan, lead, or participate in their church’s Sunday gatherings. Bob has been a pastor for over three decades and leads Sovereign Grace Music. He’s well-known as a worship leader, songwriter, speaker, and author. David, his good friend, is an experienced drummer, vocalist, teacher, and songwriter. Both are now both part of Sovereign Grace Church in Louisville, KY, and they’d love for you to join them each week for an engaging, Christ-centered conversation about music and the church.
In God’s kindness, Sovereign Grace Music has been producing songs for the church for 40 years now. People have often asked us where those songs come from. In this episode, Bob, David, and Devon do a deep dive into the people, purpose, and processes behind the songs we write.
Resources: https://sovereigngracemusic.com/training/resources/how-we-write-sovereign-grace-songs-wg24/
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
Josh Scott is the founder and owner of JHS pedals, used and loved by guitarists throughout the world. In this second of two episodes (listen to the first one if you haven’t already!), David and Bob had the joy of hearing Josh talk about the importance of listening to a variety of musical sources, what kind of heart an electric guitarist should bring to the Sunday meeting, the versatility of the electric, the beauty of live music, and his three favorite JHS pedals.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
Josh Scott is the founder and owner of JHS pedals, used and loved by guitarists throughout the world. In this first of two episodes, David and Bob had the delight of sitting down with Josh to talk about his obsessive curiosity, how he came to know Christ, and the importance of finding out what really matters in life.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
We love to get questions from our listeners! In this episode Bob and David answer three questions from recent emails they’ve received. The first addresses how to know when someone should step off the music team. The second explores whether it’s ever a good idea to auto-tune your vocals on Sundays. Finally, they talk about introducing new songs to your congregation.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
“How much repetition is too much in a song? Is there ever a time when repetition can be helpful? When does it become harmful? Bob Kauflin and David Zimmer try to sort through those questions and more in this episode.
John Piper on Repetitive Worship Songs
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Colin Buchanan is widely known in Australia both as a country musician and a writer of Christian songs for kids. He is extremely funny and a joy to be around, but more importantly loves introducing children to the riches of God’s Word and the gospel through song. We had the opportunity to record two podcasts with him. In this second episode of two, David and Bob talk to Colin about how we can introduce big theological truths to little hearts.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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Colin Buchanan is widely known in Australia both as a country musician and a writer of Christian songs for kids. He is extremely funny and a joy to be around, but more importantly loves introducing children to the riches of God’s Word and the gospel through song. We had the opportunity to record two podcasts with him. In this first episode, David and Bob talk to Colin about his history and how he got connected with Sovereign Grace Music.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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Many, if not most, churches today project lyrics on a screen to enable congregational singing. But technology has given us a variety of options for lyric projection that require biblical discernment, thoughtfulness, and intentionality. In this first episode of Season 8, Bob Kauflin and David Zimmer explore what our aim is in lyric projection, suggest ways to do it well, and challenge the common assumption that we should use whatever is available.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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If you’ve ever been anxious, nervous, insecure, fearful, jittery, or apprehensive about leading your congregation on a Sunday, this episode is for you! Of course, it’s relevant to other situations in as well. Bob and David talk about the difference between good anxiety and bad anxiety, and explore means God has given us in his Word to deal with something that eventually all leaders have to confront.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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For more than 20 years, Sovereign Grace Music songs have been administrated by Integrity Music. In that relationship we’ve had the joy of working with Jonathan Lane, the Vice President of Music Administration and Contracts for Integrity, who has been an invaluable resource for questions related to contracts, licensing, royalties, and CCLI. In this second of two episodes, Bob and David ask Jonathan questions about writing, promoting, and copyrighting your own songs.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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For more than 20 years, Sovereign Grace Music songs have been administrated by Integrity Music. In that relationship we’ve had the joy of working with Jonathan Lane, the Vice President of Music Administration and Contracts for Integrity, who has been an invaluable resource for questions related to contracts, licensing, royalties, and CCLI. In this first of two episodes, Bob and David talk about how Jonathan arrived at his present position and explore the ins and outs of CCLI and posting songs.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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For those in public ministry, especially musicians in the church, social media can be a convenient way to let others know what we’ve been doing. But when does the desire to communicate ways we’ve been serving become more about us than Jesus? In this episode, Bob and David explore that topic and suggest ways we can use social media wisely and in a God-glorifying way.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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It’s easy for leaders and band members to think of themselves as different, separated from, or even above the members of their congregation. In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, Bob and David suggest reasons we might think that way, why it’s unhelpful and unbiblical, and ways we can start seeing ourselves a members of the congregation under the leadership of Jesus.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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In this second part of our interview with Josh Blount, we get into more details about what difference being made male and female makes as we think about our Sunday gatherings. Josh serves as a pastor of Living Faith Church in Franklin, WV, and wrote his doctoral dissertation on issues related to gender. Below are some of the resources that Josh recommends on this topic.
The Christian Family by Herman Bavinck. Bavinck was a brilliant Dutch Reformed theologian, and this book is his contribution to help the pre-WWI Dutch church think carefully about marriage and the family in a changing world. Sections will feel quite “dated,” given that it’s over 100 years old, but that’s actually part of the strength of the work: by reading a faithful theologian address a controversial topic in a previous age, we can see more clearly some of our own contemporary biases.
The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self and Strange New World by Carl Trueman. These two books are the absolute best on understanding our current culture. The Rise and Triumph is Trueman’s first, much longer book, which he then shortened to an accessible, 200 page version in Strange New World. Both are very valuable. If reading a 400 page book excites you, begin with The Rise and Triumph and then read Strange New World to continue the learning experience. If a 400 page book is the last thing you want to pick up, then begin with Strange New World and follow up with select chapters in the longer volume that interest you or are particularly relevant.
Men and Women in the Church by Kevin DeYoung. This is a very useful summary of the texts and theology behind why men’s and women’s roles in the church aren’t interchangeable, and why it matters.
Finally, anything Rosaria Butterfield writes on these topics!
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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The world is more confused than ever about the distinctions between men and women and why they even exist. Do those differences matter? Are there problems if we neglect them? And what does gender have to do with our Sunday meetings? To help us answer those questions and learn why God’s design for men and women is good, true, and beautiful, we’re joined in this episode by Josh Blount, a pastor at Living Faith Church in Franklin, WV, who wrote his doctoral dissertation on issues related to gender. This is part 1 of a 2 part podcast.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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Church musicians and sound teams aren’t always on the same page. Sometimes they rarely talk to each other! In this Sound Plus Doctrine episode, Bob, David, and Devon dive into practical ways bands and tech teams can work together to serve their churches more effectively for the glory of Christ.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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In this episode, Bob, David, and Devon answer questions that have been sent in to the podcast. We revisit singing songs from questionable sources, how to respond when someone encourages you for your leading, the appropriateness of asking God for mercy, and how long rehearsals should be.
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When we first became aware of it in 2020, COVID-19 had a significant impact on churches throughout the world. For some, it brought to the forefront questions about who decides when the church can gather. For others, it revealed a deficiency in our understanding of why the church meets. For everyone, it caused us to reevaluate why God calls us together in the first place. In this episode, Bob Kauflin, David Zimmer, and Devon Kauflin talk about the consequences of COVID, both good and bad, and the importance of remaining firmly planted in the unchanging truths of God’s Word.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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Every week church leaders plan their Sunday gathering. How do we measure whether or not those meetings have been effective? More importantly, how do we know if they’ve been pleasing to the Lord? Join Bob, David, and Devon as they talk about various standards we can use to determine if our meetings are being faithful to fulfill God’s desires for us when we gather.
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We often find it easy to trust God when things are going well and difficult to trust him when our world is falling apart. But Scripture assures us we can “trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord God is an everlasting rock” (Isaiah 26:4, ESV). In this very personal episode David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin interview Bob’s son, Devon, about the way God has sustained him during some significant trials he and his church have encountered this past year.
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We gather each Sunday as the church to hear from God and worship him as he has revealed himself to us in Jesus Christ. But we can subtly shift our worship to secondary matters like music, liturgy, or skill and end up engaging in idolatry. This is the part 2 of two episodes where David and Bob explore the different idols we can worship on Sunday mornings.
Resources in this episode:
1 Chronicles 16:11
Psalm 84:1-2
1 Corinthians 14:40
John 5:39-40
John 17:3
Luke 18:11-13
Exodus 34:6-7
Proverbs 22:1
Isaiah 66:2
Luke 7:34
Os Guinness from his book, Prophetic Untimeliness: A Challenge to the Idol of Relevance
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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We gather each Sunday as the church to hear from God and worship him as he has revealed himself to us in Jesus Christ. But we can subtly shift our worship to secondary matters like music, liturgy, or skill and end up engaging in idolatry. This is the first of two episodes where David and Bob explore the different idols we can worship on Sunday mornings.
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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One Sound + Doctrine listener wrote in to ask, “How much musical or theological training do I need to be effective in leading congregational worship?” While there are a number of factors to consider, Bob and David devote this episode to taking a stab at answering that question.
References and resources
Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem
Concise Theology by J.I. Packer
Short Studies in Systematic Theology Series
Biblical Theology by Graham Goldsworthy
God’s Big Picture by Vaughn Roberts
Engaging with God by David Peterson
Christ Centered Worship by Bryan Chappell
Corporate Worship by Matt Merker
Worship Matters by Bob Kauflin
The Cross and Christian Ministry by D.A. Carson
Biblical Productivity by C.J. Mahaney
Worship Matters Intensive
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What does planning a Sunday meeting actually look like? In this episode we take you behind the scenes with a zoom recording of planning a Sunday morning at Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. David and Bob are joined by Fabrizio Rodulfo and Reuben Foster, members of the church.
References:
For The Cause by Keith Getty, Kristyn Getty, and Stuart Townend
Rejoice by Dustin Kensrue
Christ is Mine Forevermore by Jonny Robinson and Rich Thompson
How Deep the Father’s Love for Us by Stuart Townend
Man Of Sorrows by Matt Crocker and Brooke Ligertwood
Our Song From Age to Age by Joel Sczebel
Logos Bible Software: https://www.logos.com/10
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More than a few women have asked us how we should view a woman’s role in leading music on Sundays in light of Scriptures like 1 Corinthians 11:33-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-15. We invited Jeff Purswell, dean of the Sovereign Grace Pastors College, to join us for a conversation on how we can think about this topic in a way that seeks to honor God’s Word as well as the significant role women play in our gatherings.
Suggested or Mentioned Resources:
Men and Women in the Church: A Short, Biblical, Practical Introduction by Kevin DeYoung
God’s Design for Man and Woman: A Biblical-theological Survey by Andreas Köstenberger and Margaret Elizabeth Köstenberger
Have a question about this episode? Send us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com
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Sovereign Grace Music records songs that are meant to be sung in local churches, not just listened to. In this episode, Bob and David talk about how they have utilized the songs from Unchanging God, Vol. 1 in their Sunday meetings at Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville.
References:
Unchanging God: Songs From the Book of Psalms, Volume 1
Unchanging God: Meditations on Psalms and Songs
Psalm 145
Exodus 34:6
Psalm 119:129-136
Psalm 103
Romans 8:38-39
Psalm 93
Colossians 3:16
Psalm 62
Psalm 121
Luke 21:16
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People sometimes view the music and the preaching on Sunday morning as unrelated. But God intended Scripture to govern, guide, fill, and fuel our times together. What does that mean for how we structure and lead our gatherings? That’s the topic David and Bob discuss with Jeff Purswell, dean of the Sovereign Grace Pastor’s College, on this week’s Sound + Doctrine Podcast.
References:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
Psalm 33:6
Psalm 107:20
Isaiah 55:11
1 Thessalonians 2:13
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Band rehearsals for Sunday morning can sometimes reveal differing thoughts on how songs should be sung, played, and interpreted. How do we share those thoughts humbly, while continuing to pursue musical excellence? That’s the topic David and Bob dig into on this episode of Sound + Doctrine.
References:
Proverbs 12:15
Proverbs 21:2
Romans 12:16
Colossians 3:4
Philippians 1:21
Proverbs 18:2 & 13
Proverbs 15:1-2
Proverbs 12:18
Philippians 2:3-4
Colossians 3:17
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For about 15 years now, churches have had the option of using instrumental and vocal tracks to supplement or replace live musicians on Sunday mornings. In this episode, Bob and David ask what the benefits and drawbacks of adopting backing tracks might be and consider what the Bible has to say to help us.
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In part 3 of an interview with singer/songwriter Caroline Cobb, Bob & David talk with her about the effect the gospel has had in her parenting as well as the story she seeks to tell through her songs.
References:
Psalms: The Poetry of Prayer: https://slinky.to/PsalmsThePoetryofPrayer
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How should we think about singing songs by artists or ministries that we have theological concerns about? Are there any biblical principles to guide us? That’s the conversation Bob Kauflin, David Zimmer, and Devon Kauflin engage in on this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine.
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In part 2 of an interview with singer/songwriter Caroline Cobb, Bob & David talk with her about the challenging task of pursuing a career as an artist while maintaining priorities as a wife and mom, and doing both for the glory of Christ.
References:
Psalms: The Poetry of Prayer: https://slinky.to/PsalmsThePoetryofPrayer
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God makes it clear in Deuteronomy 6, Ephesians 6, and other Scriptures that parents are responsible to raise their children to trust in Christ and walk in obedience to God’s commands. But for many parents, the topic of family worship brings up feelings of discouragement, failure, or striving. In this episode, Bob and David talk about ways of avoiding the two extremes of pressure and apathy, and offer practical ideas for leading your kids to love God and his Word.
References:
Jesus Storybook Bible
https://a.co/d/e4B42rU
The Garden, The Curtain and the Cross
https://www.thegoodbook.com/the-garden-the-curtain-and-the-cross-storybook
The Gospel Story Bible
https://newgrowthpress.com/children-books/picture-books/the-gospel-story-bible-discovering-jesus-in-the-old-and-new-testaments/
The Ology
https://newgrowthpress.com/children-books/picture-books/the-ology-ancient-truths-ever-new/
Long Story Short
https://newgrowthpress.com/children-books/books-for-3-5-year-olds/long-story-short-home-bible-supplement/
Old Story New
https://newgrowthpress.com/christian-books/devotionals-books/old-story-new-ten-minute-devotions-to-draw-your-family-to-god/
Big Picture Story Bible by David Helm
https://a.co/d/aUntIYL
Might Acts of God, Wondrous Works of God
https://a.co/d/3yUcep7
Seeds Family Worship
Seeds Family Worship
Corner Room Music
https://www.cornerroommusic.com/
Sovereign Grace Kids Albums
https://sovereigngracemusic.com/music/albums/#kids-marker
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In part 1 of an interview with singer/songwriter Caroline Cobb, Bob & David talk with her about how she got into writing songs that tell the story of the Bible and how as a songwriter she navigates the tension between being a creative and pursuing biblical faithfulness.
References:
“A Word on Poetry from A Godward Life: Pt. 2 by John Piper
Psalms: The Poetry of Prayer: https://slinky.to/PsalmsThePoetryofPrayer
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To kick off season 6 of Sound Plus Doctrine, Bob Kauflin, David Zimmer, and Devon Kauflin dive into what the Bible has to say about lighting in our Sunday gatherings. Does it matter? Is it just a matter of preference? What does the lighting on Sunday mornings say to your church? Enjoy the conversation!
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A podcast listener sent in this question, asking what to do when the songs your church is singing are problematic, either for musical or theological reasons. It’s a question we’ve received more than once, and in this episode David and Bob seek to provide biblical and practical answers.
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In a world that breathlessly awaits hearing how the latest technology is going to make our lives better, eaiser, and more fruitful, how should the church respond? In what ways do musical, audio, and visual technologies change us as we use them? Does God’s Word have anything to say to us about technologies that didn’t exist when it was written? Bob, David, and Devon explore these and other questions as they seek to help churches think about and use technology in a way that is both grateful and discerning.
Resources and Scriptures referenced in this episode:
God, Technology, and the Christian Life by Tony Reinke
Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport
“Behold, I have created the smith who blows the fire of coals and produces a weapon for its purpose. I have also created the ravager to destroy; no weapon that is fashioned against you shall succeed.”” (Isaiah 54:16–17, ESV)
Questions to ask about the technology you use on Sunday mornings:
- Is it the least imposing technology for the task?
- How expensive is it? Can it be fixed if it breaks? Who can fix it?
- How might this technology benefit and hinder us in pursuing God’s purposes for our gatherings?
- Does this technology serve in building us together as a spiritual house? Does it conform us to who we are together in Christ or atomize us as individuals?
- How does using this technology increase or decrease our awareness or our constant dependence on the Spirit of God?
- How does this technology shape us as a congregation or an individual?
- What values are fostered through the use of technology?
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It’s not uncommon for a senior pastor to focus on preaching and give little to no attention to other aspects of the Sunday gathering. In this episode, David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin are joined by Jared Mellinger, senior pastor of Covenant Life Fellowship in Glen Mills, PA, to talk about the important role a senior pastor plays in leading the entire meeting, even if there’s not a musical bone in his body.
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Few things can be as disheartening as trying to lead a group of unresponsive teens in congregational worship. A faithful listener sent in an email asking what to do in that situation, and how to effectively encourage your musicians. Bob, David, and Devon tackle that question and seek to steer us away from thinking music and technology can do what only the gospel and the Holy Spirit can do.
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In this episode, Bob and David are joined by Dave Fournier and Ryan Foglesong, writers of the new hymn, All of Our Tomorrows. It’s a fascinating conversation that touches on the songwriting process, the benefit of relationships, and the importance of singing songs that remind us this world is not our home.
Watch the live video to All of Our Tomorrows on YouTube: https://youtu.be/EnlllwGdcQM
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So you’re becoming more convinced that God has given us bodies to naturally respond to him in ways that point to his glory and our satisfaction in him. Even on Sunday mornings. But what if your church isn’t in the same place? How do you help you church grow in a natural, biblical expressiveness that exalts God and encourages those around you? That’s the topic of this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, part 3 of 3.
Scriptures referenced in this episode:
“My heart is steadfast, O God! I will sing and make melody with all my being! Awake, O harp and lyre! I will awake the dawn!” (Psalm 108:1–2, ESV)
“I have told the glad news of deliverance in the great congregation; behold, I have not restrained my lips, as you know, O LORD.” (Psalm 40:9, ESV)
“My lips will shout for joy, when I sing praises to you; my soul also, which you have redeemed.” (Psalm 71:23, ESV)
“Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,” (1 Peter 1:8, ESV)
Blog post mentioned:
Music is Great. Jesus is Greater.
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The way we think about physical expression in our Sunday gatherings is often shaped more by culture, tradition, preference, or temperament than the Word of God. In this episode, part 2 of 3, Bob and David look at what the Bible says about physical expressiveness in congregational worship and respond to each of the concerns expressed in the first episode. And buckle up – this is a long one.
Scriptures and resources referenced in this episode:
“then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.” (Genesis 2:7, ESV)
“I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.” (Romans 12:1, ESV)
“as it is my eager expectation and hope that I will not be at all ashamed, but that with full courage now as always Christ will be honored in my body, whether by life or by death.” (Philippians 1:20, ESV)
“But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21, ESV)
“you shall say, ‘It is the sacrifice of the LORD’s Passover, for he passed over the houses of the people of Israel in Egypt, when he struck the Egyptians but spared our houses.’ ” And the people bowed their heads and worshiped.” (Exodus 12:27, ESV)
“Then Job arose and tore his robe and shaved his head and fell on the ground and worshiped.” (Job 1:20, ESV)
“And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was above all the people, and as he opened it all the people stood. And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God, and all the people answered, “Amen, Amen,” lifting up their hands. And they bowed their heads and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the ground.” (Nehemiah 8:5–6, ESV)
“And Nehemiah, who was the governor, and Ezra the priest and scribe, and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people, “This day is holy to the LORD your God; do not mourn or weep.” For all the people wept as they heard the words of the Law.” (Nehemiah 8:9, ESV)
“Clap your hands, all peoples! Shout to God with loud songs of joy!” (Psalm 47:1, ESV)
“addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,” (Ephesians 5:19, ESV)
“Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker!” (Psalm 95:6, ESV)
“Lift up your hands to the holy place and bless the LORD!” (Psalm 134:2, ESV)
“And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mingled with fire—and also those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name, standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands.” (Revelation 15:2, ESV)
“Let them praise his name with dancing, making melody to him with tambourine and lyre!” (Psalm 149:3, ESV)
“You who fear the LORD, praise him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel!” (Psalm 22:23, ESV)
“Therefore my heart is glad, and my whole being rejoices; my flesh also dwells secure.” (Psalm 16:9, ESV)
“And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!”” (Revelation 19:4, ESV)
“The inward attitude certainly holds first place in prayer, but outward signs, kneeling, uncovering the head, lifting up the hands, have a twofold use. The first is that we may employ all our members for the glory and worship of God; secondly, that we are, so to speak, jolted out of our laziness by this help. There is also a third use in solemn and public prayer, because in this way the sons of God profess their piety, and they inflame each other with reverence of God. But just as the lifting up of the hands is a symbol of confidence and longing, so in order to show our humility, we fall down on our knees.” (John Calvin, commentary on Acts 20:36)
“Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,” (Hebrews 12:28, ESV)
“With reverence and awe” isn’t the only stipulation God puts on our worship. God also highlights celebration, rejoicing, shouting, jubilation, enthusiasm, whole-heartedness.
“My lips will shout for joy, when I sing praises to you; my soul also, which you have redeemed.” (Psalm 71:23, ESV)
“My heart is steadfast, O God! I will sing and make melody with all my being! Awake, O harp and lyre! I will awake the dawn!” (Psalm 108:1–2, ESV)
“So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:12, ESV)
“Let all things be done for building up.” (1 Corinthians 14:26, ESV)
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What kinds of physical expressiveness are appropriate and God-honoring when the church gathers? How should we think through the issues of distraction, potential hypocrisy, tradition, and emotionalism? Does this issue even matter? In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, part 1 of 3, David and Bob talk about ten reasons people give for avoiding or minimizing physcial expresiveness in the church.
Scriptures referenced in this episode:
“God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”” (John 4:24, ESV)
“When you spread out your hands, I will hide my eyes from you; even though you make many prayers, I will not listen; your hands are full of blood.” (Isaiah 1:15, ESV)
“Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe,” (Hebrews 12:28, ESV)
“Be still, and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth!”” (Psalm 46:10, ESV)
“But the LORD is in his holy temple; let all the earth keep silence before him.”” (Habakkuk 2:20, ESV)
“But all things should be done decently and in order.” (1 Corinthians 14:40, ESV)
“For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.” (1 Corinthians 14:33, ESV)
“And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention.” (1 Kings 18:28–29, ESV)
“The prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.” (Proverbs 22:3, ESV)
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Every year as Christmas rolls around, leaders face the challenge of determining what songs to sing. Do we stick with traditional carols? How do we introduce new songs? When should we start? Can we sing Christmas songs at other times? In this episode, David and Bob seek to provide some helpful answers to these questions and more.
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It’s common for members of a congregation, as well as those who lead from the front, to think that the best way to worship God in song is with your eyes closed. Is that a good idea? Does it really matter? In this episode, co-hosts Bob Kauflin and David Zimmer, joined by Bob’s son, Devon, push back on that practice, exploring what the Bible says about the benefits of being aware of those around us when we sing together as the church.
Scriptures referenced in this episode:
“The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes;” (Psalm 19:8)
“But my eyes are toward you, O GOD, my Lord; in you I seek refuge; leave me not defenseless!” (Psalm 141:8)
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” (Colossians 3:16)
“So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:12)
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In this episode, part 2 of 2, David and Bob dig deeper with Ben Shive via zoom into the topic of arranging your band on Sundays. He covers common mistakes bands often make, and offers wise counsel for specific instruments. This is a great episode to listen to with your team!
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Ben Shive is gifted and widely loved producer, arranger, and songwriter. HIs musical credits are long and include Andrew Peterson, Keith and Kristyn Getty, Melanie Penn, and JJ Heller. We’ve had the opportunity to work with Ben on our Unchanging God, Vol. 1 & 2 albums, as well as 4 singles yet to be released. Ben graciously sat down with us via zoom to talk about arranging on Sunday mornings. In this episode, part 1 of 2, he shares a bit of his spiritual and musical history and talks about the relationship between a band and the congregation.
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If you lead the singing in your church, you know the challenges. But some of the biggest challenges are those we create ourselves. In this episode, part 2 of 2, David, Bob, and Devon explore four more common mistakes to avoid, and God-honoring priorites to pursue.
Scriptures referenced in this episode:
“Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.” (Proverbs 4:23)
“This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:8–9)
“They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,” (Matthew 23:5, ESV)
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In the first episode of Season 5, co-hosts David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin are joined by Bob’s son, Devon, to talk about seven mistakes congregational worship leaders often make. While these aren’t the ONLY mistakes you can make, they certainly rank among the most common. The conversation was so enjoyable that they only got to the first 3 mistakes. You’ll have to check out the next episode to hear the last 4.
Resources and Scriptures mentioned in this episode:
Engaging with God by David Peterson
Christ-Centered Worship by Bryan Chapell
For the Glory of God by Dan Block
Reverberation by Jonathan Leeman
Bible Delight by Christopher Ash
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,” (2 Timothy 3:16)
“The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple; the precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes; the fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; the rules of the LORD are true, and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, even much fine gold; sweeter also than honey and drippings of the honeycomb.” (Psalm 19:7–10)
“‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”” (Matthew 15:8–9)
“How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?” (John 5:44)
“Praise the LORD! I will give thanks to the LORD with my whole heart, in the company of the upright, in the congregation.” (Psalm 111:1)
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” (Colossians 3:16)
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What do you do when half the people in your town speak another language? What steps can you take to develop a Sunday service that serves your members as well as the non-English speakers in your community? Bob Kauflin and David Zimmer seek to give biblical and practical answers to those questions in this final episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, Season 4.
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What can you do when you have violinist, cellist, or trumpet player in your church who wants to play in your band? Is their only option to look for a church that uses an orchestra? Not at all. In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin talk about ways orchestral instruments can be incorporated into the sound of a contemporary band. Even on a Sunday morning.
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Few things are more deflating for a leader of congregational worship than looking out Sunday after Sunday on people who are distracted, emotionless, or not singing at all. But often the problem lies not in what people are doing, but in what we do as leaders. In this practical episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, David and Bob list 15 ways you might be keeping your church from singing more passionately and meaningfully.
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It’s too easy to approach corporate worship with the idea that God needs our skills, talents, and gifts to be glorified. That perspective can result in anxiety over whether or not our worship will be “good enough.” In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine David and Bob use Psalm 50 as a guide for discovering that God doesn’t need anything we bring to him. Worship is a gift of grace that we can rejoice in and benefit from every time we gather.
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Father’s Day Edition: In this episode, part 2 of 2 on the Worship Leader and His Family, David talks with Bob (father of 6, grandfather of 21) about the challenges and joys of raising a family. They cover the early years up through parenting teens, and speak to the importance of your kids never feeling like they’re competing with your ministry for your affection, even while you make the normal sacrifices that accompany ministry.
Recommended resources:
Parenting: 14 Gospel Principles That Can Radically Change Your Family – Paul Tripp
Age of Opportunity: A Biblical Guide to Parenting Teens, Second Edition – Paul Tripp
Loving the Little Years: Motherhood in the Trenches – Rachel Jankovic
Parenting with Words of Grace: Building Relationships with Your Children One Conversation at a Time – Paul Tripp
Parenting First Aid: Hope for the Discouraged – Marty Machowski
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A number of people have sent us questions about how to approach the issue of aging on a music team. Some are asking if they’ve aged out of leading. Others have wondered how to approach this topic with members of their band. In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin explore what the Bible has to say about age, and seek to offer some practical guidelines when seeking to answer the question, “How old is too old for the worship team?”
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For centuries, the church has been conflicted over whether congregations should sing in unison or harmony. Everyone singing melody together is powerful, but harmony can add beauty and interest. In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin explore some of the principles that can help vocalists and leaders determine how to arrange vocals on a Sunday morning to build up those they’re leading and enable the word of Christ to dwell in them richly (Colossians 3:16).
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Being a vocalist or instrumentalist in the church is a joyful privilege. But it’s easy to forget that. We can slip into laziness, comparison, and other attitudes that disrupt team unity, don’t serve the leader, and ultimately dishonor the Lord. In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, David Zimmer and Bob Kauflin talk about ways we can make it a joy for our leaders to lead us!
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More than the worship we offer God when we’re in front of people on Sunday mornings, God cares about the worship of our lives. Especially as it’s revealed in our family relationships. In this episode, part 1 of 2, David interviews Bob about his relationship with his wife of 45 years, Julie, and how he has sought to cultivate a Christ-like affection for her, in spite of a less-than-encouraging start to their relationship. Watch Julie’s interview here: https://youtu.be/x5qnvGL59JU
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We love to get questions from our listeners/viewers! In this episode, Bob, David, and Devon Kauflin answer three questions related to liturgical categories for songs, when to retire a song, and how to maximize rehearsals. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SovereignGraceMusic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sovgracemusic Read More
While singing a song after the Sunday message is a common practice today, the chosen song doesn’t always deepen the impact of the Word. At other times, leaders forego a song due to running out of time. In this episode, Bob and David discuss how to think more clearly about what kinds of songs we Read More
Since 2004, Sovereign Grace Music has been seeking to serve churches through the WorshipGod conference, held every other year and hosted by Bob Kauflin. This year, it will take place July 27-30 in Louisville, KY. What makes this worship conference worth attending? Who is it for? What’s the origin of the name? And why should Read More
Week after week, month after month, year after year, leaders spend countless hours with their musicians preparing for Sunday. They want to serve their congregations skillfully and well. But how do you know if you’re practicing enough? And is it possible to practice too much? In this episode, Bob, David, and Devon Kauflin seek to Read More
In this first episode of Season 4, Bob and David discuss the significance of the name, Sound Plus Doctrine, explain why it’s the name of our podcast and how it communicates the mission of Sovereign Grace Music. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SovereignGraceMusic Read More
In this last episode of Season 3 of Sound + Doctrine, Lacy Hudson joins David and Bob to talk about her role as a vocalist and songwriter on the Christmas album, Heaven Has Come. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SovereignGraceMusic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sovgracemusic Twitter: Read More
In this episode, part 2 of 2, David and Bob talk with Bob’s wife, Julie, about her creative pursuits in the church that include being a sound engineer, singing, designing sets, and showing hospitality. They also talk candidly about how Bob and Julie are handling Julie’s reoccurrence of breast cancer. Mentioned in this episode O Read More
In this episode, part 1 of 2, David and Bob talk with Bob’s wife, Julie, about the joys and challenges of being a worship pastor’s wife for over 35 years and raising six kids in the process. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SovereignGraceMusic Read More
In the past few years Lacy Hudson has contributed to Sovereign Grace Music as a vocal arranger, vocalist, and songwriter. In this episode of Sound + Doctrine, Bob and David talk to Lacy about her history, writing practices, and involvement with her local church, Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. Have a question about this episode? Read More
In this episode of Sound + Doctrine, David and Bob continue the conversation about the drummer’s role in the band on Sunday mornings. They get practical and suggest numerous resources for improving your skills to serve the congregation and working together with other musicians. Resources referenced: Stick Control – George Lawrence Stone Around the Drums Read More
Over the last 50 years the role of the drummer on Sunday mornings has evolved from almost non-existent to ubiquitous. For many churches it’s hard to imagine a Sunday gathering without them. How should drummers think about their role and how can they best work together with the individual leading the band? In this episode Read More
In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, David and Bob continue the conversation about what to do when you’re doing too much. It’s a common question but one that God has provide clear answers for. This episode focuses on some of the practical steps we can take when we find our lives spinning out of Read More
What do you do when you’re doing too much? It’s a common question but one that God has provide clear answers for. In this episode of Sound Plus Doctrine, Bob and David begin a conversation on that topic and focus in on heart questions we need to ask. Have a question about this episode? Shoot Read More
This episode of Sound + Doctrine is the last of five focusing on what really matters to God in our Sunday gatherings. Devon Kauflin joins us as we talk about the importance of our meetings being Church aware and prioritized. Scriptures referenced: Heb. 12:22-24; Gal. 2:20; Phil. 3:3-8; 1 Pet. 2:4-5 Have a question about Read More
This episode of Sound + Doctrine is the fourth of five focusing on what really matters to God in our Sunday gatherings. Devon Kauflin joins us as we talk about the importance of our meetings being Spirit enabled and empowered. Scriptures referenced: 1 Cor. 12:7, 11; Eph. 5:18-20; Phil. 3:3; Jn. 4:23-24; Jn. 14:15-20; 1 Read More
This episode of Sound + Doctrine is the third of five focusing on what really matters to God in our Sunday gatherings. Devon Kauflin joins us as we talk about the importance of our meetings being Christ centered and Gospel driven. Scriptures referenced: Col. 1:18; Eph. 1:9-10; Rev. 5:11-14; Gal. 2:20; Is. 6:5; Eph. 2:4-5; Read More
This episode of Sound + Doctrine is the second of five focusing on what really matters to God in our Sunday gatherings. Devon Kauflin joins us as we talk about the importance of our meetings being Scripture governed and fueled. Scriptures referenced: 2 Tim. 3:16-17; Heb. 2:1; Jn. 4:23-24; 1 Cor. 2:1-2; Neh. 8:5-8 “The Read More
This episode of Sound + Doctrine is the first of five focusing on what really matters to God in our Sunday gatherings. Devon Kauflin joins us as we talk about the importance of our meetings being God intiated and exalting. Scriptures referenced: Eph 2:18, 1 Cor 1-2 Resources referenced: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/worshiping-the-infinite-and-intimate-god Have a question about this Read More
In this episode Bob and David cover the controversial topic of whether churches can include non-Christians on their music teams. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SovereignGraceMusic Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sovgracemusic Twitter: https://twitter.com/SovGraceMusic
In this episode Bob and David dive into the topic of whether or not churches should pay their musicians. We trust you’ll find something helpful as you listen in on the conversation. Scriptures referenced: 1 Chronicles 9:33; Nehemiah 11:22-23; 1 Corinthians 9:9-11; 1 Peter 4:10-11 Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email Read More
In this episode of Sound+Doctrine, we’re looking at part 2 of the topic, “When Your Musicians Could Be Better.” Only this time, we’re asking that question about ourselves as leaders. What practical ways can we grow in our musicianship, what’s realistic, and how do we know when we’ve reached the peak of our abilities? Answers Read More
Every leader realizes, hopefully sooner than later, that they are going to be replaced. In this episode, we talk about some of the practical ways we can intentionally train future congregational worship leaders. Thanks for joining us! Referenced in this episode: Engaging with God: A Biblical Theology of Worship – David Peterson Humility: True Greatness Read More
What does it mean to lament and how can we learn to lament well? In this episode, we begin the conversation about how our meetings can help people process sin and suffering in a way that is good for them and brings glory to God. Referenced in this episode: Dark Clouds, Deep Mercy – Mark Read More
What does it mean for congregational worship to be Spirit-filled? We received this question from a leader wanting to better understand why some members of his church left because they said his leading wasn’t Spirit-filled enough. We talk about the importance of planning, the purpose of spiritual gifts, how a leader can grow in spontaneity, Read More
In this episode of Sound + Doctrine, we’re thrilled to have our friend Matthew Boswell join us for a fascinating conversation on pastoring, leading, songwriting, and co-writing. Matt has written and co-written many songs God is using to serve the church today, including, “Come Behold the Wondrous Mystery,” “His Mercy is More,” and many others. Read More
What are some guidelines for choosing songs that will serve your church? And what should a church member do when their leader is choosing songs they don’t think are that helpful? We’ll talk about these questions and more in this episode, What Kind of Songs Should the Church Sing? Referenced in this episode: “What Kind Read More
What if you or your musicians aren’t that talented musically? How do you encourage your musicians in what they’re good at and help them grow at the same time? How do you create a culture where feedback is expected and received? How do you graciously let a musician know they’re not skilled enough to be Read More
In this episode Bob and David are joined by Nathan Stiff, who has written and co-written many Sovereign Grace songs including “O Lord, My Rock and My Redeemer” and “Turn Your Eyes.” Nate tells us how he got involved with Sovereign Grace Music and shares some of the things he’s learned through the years as Read More
In this episode, part 2 of 2, Bob and David are joined again by CJ Mahaney to continue the conversation about the relationship between a pastor and their music leader. Bob and CJ have a history of serving together for over 30 years, 23 of them in the same church. We think you’ll love sitting Read More
In this episode, part 1 of 2, Bob and David are joined by CJ Mahaney, senior pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville, to talk about the relationship between a pastor and their music leader. Bob and CJ have a history of serving together for over 30 years, 23 of them in the same church. Read More
If you’re a musician in your church, how should you think about your role? What’s your purpose? How is playing on Sundays different from playing as an artist or for a concert? In this episode of Sound + Doctrine, Bob & David talk about these and other topics crucial for anyone who plays in a Read More
What’s it like to write songs for a kids’ album? What are your goals? How do you even go about it? Jon Althoff is one of the primary writers for Sovereign grace Music Kids’ albums, and on this this episode of Sound + Doctrine, he joins Bob and David to talk about how he thinks Read More
In this episode of Sound + Doctrine, David and Bob are joined by Jon Althoff, one of the songwriters on Sovereign Grace albums and kids’ projects. He shares how he became involved in Sovereign Grace Music as well as helpful thoughts on writing and co-writing. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email Read More
What does it mean to pursue a “worship experience?” How do we balance the tension between being biblically faithful and expecting God to meet with us in power? In this episode David and Bob seek to provide a biblical framework for how we’re to think about experiences with God as the church gathers on Sundays. Read More
We’re jumping right into the new year and Season 2 as David asks Bob how he thinks about planning Sundays in his local church, Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville. If you are involved in planning the liturgy for your church every week, or just want to know better how to serve your church in your Read More
How should we think about planning and leading songs during the Advent/Christmas season and into the new year? What opportunities can we take advantage of as unbelievers visit our meetings? How can we help Christians understand that the Incarnation of Christ is greater than any songs we will ever sing about it? How do we Read More
This is part 5 of 5 in the series, “Shepherding Souls Through Song.” In this episode David, Bob, and Bob’s son Devon explore how leading songs are an opportunity to protect the church and be an example to them. They also share where you might start practically if shepherding souls through song is a new Read More
This is part 4 of 5 in the series, “Shepherding Souls Through Song.” David, Bob, and Bob’s son Devon dig deep into the heart of counseling and caring for God’s people through singing. They talk about the importance of applying the gospel when we sing, giving people both comfort and faith during times of suffering, Read More
This is part 3 of 5 in the series, “Shepherding Souls Through Song.” David, Bob, and Bob’s son Devon explore how singing provides an opportunity to faithfully lead a congregation both before and during the meeting. They discuss different styles of leadership and what to say when you’re not singing. As a bonus, Bob and Read More
This is part 2 of 5 in the series “Shepherding Souls Through Song.” David, Bob, and Bob’s son Devon explore the way leading songs can be a means of feeding the church though doctrinally rich, gospel-driven, emotionally engaging songs. Referenced in this podcast: “The duty of singing praises to God, seems to be appointed wholly Read More
In this part 1 of 5 of “Shepherding Souls Through Song,” David, Bob, and Bob’s son Devon discuss the often neglected perspective of leading songs as a means of pastoral care. They cover ways we typically think about leading music in the church, and the specific functions God assigns to pastors. Referenced in this podcast: Read More
Sovereign Grace Music has a new Christmas album, Heaven Has Come. In this episode, Jon Althoff joins David and Bob to share stories behind the album and specific songs. They also spend some time discussing ways to think about and introduce songs during the Advent & Christmas season. Listen to Heaven Has Come More info Read More
In this episode, Bob’s son Devon joins us to talk about how the truths we sing about on Sundays are meant to affect and reflect our daily lives, especially when it comes to the home. In this transparent and hope-filled session, both father and son reflect on how the gospel has made all the difference Read More
In this episode Bob and David talk about 5 specific ways we can be deceived into thinking music is greater than Jesus. They close by looking at practical ways each of us can grow in our love for the Savior and the gospel. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Read More
This is part 2 of our, “Music is great. Jesus is greater.” discussion. In this episode, Bob and David show us that it’s the truth of the gospel that changes our lives and why it’s important to intentionally choose Christ-exalting, emotionally engaging, biblically informed songs for our churches. Have a question about this episode? Shoot Read More
Music is great. Jesus is greater! In part 1 of 3 Bob and David discuss their love of music and why Jesus is even more satisfying. Why is it important to keep congregational music from distracting us from the truths we sing about? And how can we use music as a tool to point people Read More
What do we need to think about when choosing songs for a Sunday gathering, even in a pandemic? In this episode Bob and David show us how to prioritize the care of our church members when we choose songs. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Read More
How did Sovereign Grace Music get started? In this episode, Bob Kauflin and David Zimmer introduce us to Sovereign Grace Music and talk about why our passion for Christ grows all the more as we do what we do. Have a question about this episode? Shoot us an email at soundplusdoctrine@sovereigngrace.com Follow us Website: https://sovereigngracemusic.org Read More