What Are You Like?!: Recent Episodes

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(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like… it could go one way or another but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea, wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing out there, just make sure you’re comfy, relaxed and ready for some fabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:35)

Crystal: “The pub is certainly a mess babe” - the dampest queen I know, the hilarious, the silly, the fun & fabulous Cherry Liquor joins me on my last episode of my VERY FIRST season of my very first podcast, thank you so much for listening this entire time if you have, if you’re new here then thank for listening in general but I am so thrilled to be spending my last episode of my first season of What Are You Like?! With my best mate Cherry Liquor; Cherry’s been doing drag for over 8 years in the business, storming the country up & down the United Kingdom with her hilarity, her campery and making people laugh- but what - you know - what tickles Cherry Liquor? What tickles her cherries? Oh god, lets find out as we discover what Cherry Liquor is really like…

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to fade in to the background -

(01:30)

Cherry Liquor: Hello babe! You okay?

• Crystal laughs -

Cherry: Are you alright?

Crystal: I’m good-it’s miserable out isn’t it?

Cherry: Oh it’s not nice is it?

Crystal: Oh I just went for a walk with m’dogs, I’m absolutely drenched.

Cherry: Oh babe I thought you liked being wet though?

Crystal: Oh I do, I do you know it’s been a long time you know dear…

Cherry: No? We won’t talk about that.

Crystal: Yes dear been a long time, this is gonna be really strange because if listeners don’t know- Cherry Liquor is one of my best mates in this entire planet and we talk to each other every single day and there’s no other person I would want as my grand finale of season one of my new podcast ‘What Are You Like?!’ than you Cherry, how do you feel about that?

(02:07)

Cherry: Babe I feel honoured.

Crystal: Do you?

Cherry: I do!

Crystal: Have you listened to any of it?

Cherry: No! Don’t be silly I ain’t got time.

• Crystal cackles -

Cherry: Ain’t got time, I would say; too busy cleaning my wigs but you know I don’t do that um.

Crystal: Oh they look very, very somewhat-somewhat clean.

Cherry: Wassat on your wig? Oatmeal.

Crystal: It’s not a fly is it?

Cherry: No it’s not!

Crystal: That ones over in America- but um no Cherry Liquor is one of my best mates, we’ve worked together for um oh goodness me it’s gonna be about 7 & a half years?

Cherry: Don’t we’re so old.

(02:41)

Crystal: Well we’re not THAT old to be honest when you- in retrospect I think we just feel old because we’ve been doing it for a while but even then to so many we’ve only been here a hot minute.

Cherry: Don’t you say we’re not old? The other day I played dan- oh what is it? Leanne Rimes um oh whassat song? You know the only song she did? What was it?

Crystal: It’s er under the-er Can’t Fight The Moonlight.

Cherry: Can’t Fight The Moonlight- so I played that and someone went “What’s this?” I was like, are you kidding me?

Crystal: Well you know what happened at a brunch the other day?

Cherry: What?

Crystal: I was with-I’m, oh I’m gonna out her and shame her I couldn’t give a shit, I was with my good friend Bones…

Cherry: Oh she’s young ain’t she?

Crystal: She’s very young, I think she’s 21? But um Britney Spears’s Lucky came on and they went “What’s this?”

Cherry: Ughh!

Crystal: Horrible.

Cherry: But the thing is-is when it’s someone iconic like that you’re like: “girl are you alright?”

Crystal: “You ok hun?”

Cherry: Like I get that they didn’t know like-LeAnne Rimes cos it’s LeAnne Rimes.

(03:34)

Crystal: Well it’s a bit niche isn’t it? It’s the - you know - 2am song at a bar or club but it’s been a long time since we’ve been at a bar at 2am.

Cherry: But BRITNEY?

Crystal: I- I just-I didn’t talk-

Cherry: Did you tell her she’s a bad girl?

Crystal: Er-my face said it all if I’m honest?

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: She’s a very-very bad girl.

Cherry: I was so disappointed I just left.

Crystal: But you know what; you are SUCH a good girl!

• Crystal & Cherry snigger -

Crystal: Such a good girl!

Cherry: I am I’m such a good girl.

Crystal: Um so we’ve been friends for about 7 & a half years um the first time we ever met was at the late Blind Tiger er summer of 2013 where I used to be a part of the troupe House Of Grand Parade which is a drag troupe or now, duo in Brighton with Lydia L’Scabies & Rococo Chanel and it was er - you know - it was some kind-of kooky, weird, drag show with the most diverse, eclectic, amazing yet trashy line up and out comes this drag queen out of nowhere with Alfie Ordinary of whom was just booked to perform themselves and they brought along this absolutely hideous, atrocious-looking drag queen named Cherry Liquor.

• Cherry laughs -

(04:39)

Crystal: I’ll never forget being in that dressing room and just immediately falling head over heels for you.

Cherry: Oh babe.

Crystal: I’ll never forget it you just- you just! There’s something about-

Cherry: Were you not scared of me?

Crystal: No! This is the thing that you tell me and I think we have both been told we’re very intimidating-

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: -and I don’t, I don’t personally see it for myself um I can see it for you but then you say to me that you see it for me aswell-

Cherry: You bitch!

Crystal: No but you say-you say; oh you can understand how people find me intimidating, I can understand people who find you intimidating but yet ourselves we can’t understand it for ourselves.

(05:15)

Cherry: Yeah that makes sense.

Crystal: Why do you think that?

Cherry: I don’t know! I think- but the thing is I’m like you say we are quite similar in like in terms of that but when you put us on paper I don’t think we are.

Crystal: Oh not at all, in terms of people? In terms of performers, the thing is-is I think you wouldn’t necessarily really think if you were to look at Cherry’s drag and my drag about 3 years ago or 4 years ago, you wouldn’t think that the two of us would be doing - you know - shows together because that was the whole point of when we started our duo Lubrikunt & Liquor was to bring two styles of drag together which is one - which is Cherry’s foundations come from the camp, British-style of drag whereas mine were more westernised-inspired like lip-syncing and stuff whereas Cherry was mostly live, whereas now! I would say that we’re both very, very eclectic and just sort-of have our fingers in many, many little pots of honey.

Cherry: Not pies, honey.

(06:13)

Crystal: Honey, honey but um-

Cherry: Hello hun-ie.

Crystal: Hello hun-ie!

• Cherry sings -

Cherry: “Honey, honey how you thrill me uh-huh”

• Cherry stops singing -

Crystal: That was lovely.

Cherry: Thank you babe.

Crystal: Don’t give-don’t, don’t give them free shows make them pay babe.

• Cherry sniggers -

Cherry: Right that’s it send me some money on Paypal please.

Crystal: That’s it, log off, that’s it! Um-

Cherry: You’ve had your show.

Crystal: I specifically remember us going to Pizza Express and that was - sort-of- the start of it all.

Cherry: Yeah I remember that.

Crystal: And from then we were pretty much talking to each other everyday - if not- every other day up until present day, it’s weird.

Cherry: Over the most ridiculous things.

Crystal: Over the most ridiculous things! I think the thing is that Cherry & I, much like a good handful of erm my best friends is they’ve been through everything.

• Crystal chuckles -

Cherry: Yeah

(06:59)

Crystal: They’e been through everything with me so it’s-you know it’s commendable that you’ve made it this far, I am also absolutely spoiled to have a best mate like you Chez, it’s amazing but-

Cherry: Aw babe.

Crystal: -we’ve done some amazing things together you know we’ve performed as Lubrikunt & Liquor across loads of Prides up & down the country, is there any one that sorta stands out for you?

Cherry: D’ya know what, it’s hilarious cos we laugh about it all the time but honestly Reading Pride when we did that, it sounds ridiculous but I don’t know there was just something about that one- that, it was just really memorable, I think it was because it was just hilarious.

Crystal: Well it was so funny because at Bristol Pride - we tell this story onstage - so I’m a lip-syncing queen I prepare mixes, I can’t rock up and just got “oh-“ - at that time I wasn’t singing live at all but - I couldn’t rock up and change something last minute because a mix is a mix, it’s edited, it’s mastered, it’s sent off and done, and when we arrived at Bristol Pride we were told “Oh by the way you can’t swear” and our mixes had already been set because within our little Lubrikunt & Liquor show we have mixes together that say every single bad word under the sun, we were just like; “Well, fuck!” Cos we-we-

(08:16)

Cherry: Well what we gonna do then?

Crystal: Well what we gonna do then? What they gonna do, shoot me? You’ll have to catch me first I’m like a whippet!

Cherry: But it was me who went on-who literally went, they were like “Don’t swear” I was like “Well she’s got it in her track but I won’t- How the fuck are we doing!?!”

• Crystal & Cherry laugh -

Crystal: Oh it was just so good because we have a video of it now, it’s somewhere, it is somewhere and I’ll try and shove it online for people to view it because it is so funny and then I said the C-word multiple times because obviously you can sound it out by my name and it was just iconic because I specifically remember looking out into the crowd and seeing a child on a man’s shoulders and that man getting his hands and covering the child’s ears, it was so funny, so iconic, and I remember coming off and people giving us the eyes, do you remember?

(09:03)

Cherry: I remember there was a certain queen - I’m not gonna say who it was - but her face! And I was like “Oh don’t worry they won’t mind” and she went “They will mind!” I was like “Ooh fuck!”

• Crystal cackles -

Cherry: I’ve just been told off by nan!

Crystal: But the other fucking, there’s-there’s another Pride, we did Reading Pride and it’s my favourite thing- these things we quote to each other all the time and one in particular was at Reading Pride and they went “Right, names!” And I went “Crystal Lubrikunt” and they went “right yep you’re signed in” and then they went “Cherry Liqu-“ then they went “What’s your name?” and she was like “Cherry Liquor” and they went * gasp *

Cherry: “You can’t say that!”

Crystal: “Cherry Liquor, nooo”

Cherry: “Disgusting we can’t that in the poster.”

Crystal: “We can’t put that on a poster nooo.” So we got that video of me going “Hi I’m Crystal” and you go “And my name’s Cherry!”

- Cherry & Crystal laugh -

(09:54)

Crystal: But we’ve also done um, we’ve been to Iceland together that was-

Cherry: We have!

Crystal: That was-

Cherry: “You seen this?”

Crystal: That was “You seen this?” A lot of people, to this day, message me in the Instagram DMs and tell me how many times they watch the Iceland video we have of us on YouTube of us two together just being silly.

Cherry: I literally love that.

Crystal: It’s so silly, I’ve been so tempted to - sort of - get back into that game but it’s difficult with Covid and everything, it’s difficult to get - you know - a camera out and start filming people when you’re too busy trying to abide - you know - regulations and be safe, and be clean and what not.

Cherry: Well you can’t see each other you’re all wearing a mask.

Crystal: Yeah! So it’s different, it’s difficult but you know we get there in the end but shall we get on with this bloody interview then let me ask you this penultimate question then Cherry; what are you like?!

Cherry: What are you like!?

Crystal: What are you like?

Cherry: I’m just a camp ole’ cow babe as you know.

Crystal: Oh yes!

Cherry: I um- d’ya know I think my drag has developed like, so much from-

Crystal: It’s ridiculously like, levelled-up tremendously.

Cherry: I think it’s- I think most of it is trying like, when you’re starting out it’s trying to conform to things, like for example; when you were chatting about House Of Grand Parade that was a very different world to me like, the only gigs I had really done at that point were things like um charity nights and things like ladies nights and things like that so it was a completely like, it was more like, it was more queer, it was more challenging, it pushed boundaries more and I wasn’t used to that so when I started to come to those gigs I like, it made me pay attention to those things more but I wanted to still be true to what Cherry was if that makes sense?

(11:32)

Crystal: Absolutely I think- and though I’ve just excelled and come a long way I think we all do as performers, it’s not for me to say that “oh well yeah you really sort of worked like, you needed to” not at all I think everyone is their- is their final product at any stage it’s just people really want to yearn and people really wanna excel be the best that they can be, and learn more and take more stuff in and House Of Grand Parade- I think the more time that passes, the more I look back at that era and think; how many - sort of - moves we were making without really knowing what we were doing?

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: Yet we were setting some trends and setting some sort of- er new genre of drag in Brighton town and but- you say that you came along and you’ve sort-of listened and pricked your ears up, we did the same to you; I remember thinking that you were some- which you may have been, I mean shoot me doing if you weren’t-

(12:25)

Cherry: A witch.

Crystal: But I remember when you were in the Halloween get-up and you went “I’m scary look! Boo!”

• Crystal & Cherry chuckle -

Crystal: Um but I remember thinking that you were like, a true professional but you hadn’t been doing it that long.

Cherry: No, like I say I’d literally done a couple of gigs before and had a really scary, professional-looking wig which probably scared people more and made it “Oh she is a professional” but yeah I really hadn’t done that much but I think I always say that they do say “Fake it till you make it” and I’m quite good at that.

• Cherry wheeze -

Crystal: Well this is the thing is that I say it to a bunch of people that have been on this podcast and I say it in general that I feel like that it is a rite of passage that you spend your first - at least - 18 months being a delusional mess.

(13:13)

Cherry: Yeah, I think I like, and I think it’s getting over that like, I was scared to be campy and old school because it wasn’t what anyone else was doing er because obviously drag - obviously you’ve still got the old school but it is slowly starting to disappear even more now but yeah I think I was scared to be that because no one else around me was.

Crystal: Yeah I think as long as people love drag and have like, the self respect and the willingness to listen & learn, then be as deluded as you want because at the end of the day we’ve all had those days when someone’s gotten a hand to our face and gone “hold up check yourself lets now- you know”

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: We’ve all had those moments and you know at times I think you & I, when we work together and you know we talk to each other a lot, we both are surrounded by communities that have lots of up & coming performers that look up to us it’s tough for us to - you know - when people ask us advice because no one ever really gave it to us and it’s such a self-

Cherry: Yeah.

(14:18)

Crystal: -it’s such a journey of one’s self so I don’t really enjoy inflicting too much upon someone because I just- it feels like I’m trying to manufacture someone.

Cherry: Completely and when pe- a lot of like, obviously you get asked that question quite a lot but when people ask it I literally just say to them “the only bit of advice I can say is to be and do you” and I know that sounds absolutely ridiculous because that is like, the simplest thing but that is literally what gets you where you are, you’re not like, obviously I say “fake it till you make it” but you can’t, you can’t literally like, fake, not like, not being yourself if you know- like if that makes sense?

Crystal: Fake it till you make it don’t imitate it till you make it.

Cherry: Yeah like, you need to be you, you need to do what you can do and until you can say “yeah actually I’m good this is what I’m doing” I don’t think other people believe it honestly.

(15:15)

Crystal: It’s difficult because I can totally agree with you of course but er- for one, I don’t mind when people get their resources and they wanna make it their own I think that’s fine, there’s genius and true um power in taking something that’s popular and known to be a part of someone else’s repertoire or -lets say- a famous song from a television show or whatever, and making it your own but if someone goes on a stage and they do a song that’s been rehashed famously by Drag Race or by another performer and they’re just basically mimicking the moves or they’re mimicking the style of performance it’s just-

Cherry: Yeah that’s not good, that’s not cool.

Crystal: -using that in every single area whether it is outfit or demeanour whether it’s personality or obviously the biggest - sort of - go to for a lot of upcoming performers in drag, specifically queens is the unnecessary sass, and the unnecessary um anti-social stand-offish “i’m that bitch” kind of mindset which is crazy because none of us- which is another thing, I think back to when I was starting out and I didn’t necessarily have that but I definitely was a delusional dickhead.

• Crystal & Cherry laugh -

Crystal: I was an absolute knobhead but I never thought at one point, was trying to be something that I wasn’t, it was just me growing up because I was so young.

(16:44)

Cherry: Oh yeah, I mean how old were you when you started?

Crystal: 18.

Cherry: Oh my god babe.

Crystal: So when I went out the other day with these queens that were also 18 it -sort of- was a full circle moment.

Cherry: And you were like; wee that was me that dickhead.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: Well this is the thing, well they weren’t dicks they were -sort of- fully like, it was great, it was really um awesome & heartwarming to er be around such young creatives and have their heads screwed on tight but I will say that when Bloody Mary by Lady Gaga came on in the apartment we were all at um - rule of 6 of course -

Cherry: Good girl,

Crystal: I was literally like “In my day! We used to dance to this one!” Because they were like, 11 when it came out, ridiculous- but we’re gonna get straight into this interview because we’re already chatting so much shit, we’re gonna go to our first section which is called; ‘7 Things’.

Cherry: Ooh.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

(17:39)

Crystal: ‘7 Things’ is a time for me to get in contact with someone that you’ve worked with, a friend, a loved one to describe you in seven ways and we’re gonna go through each one and decipher why you think they’ve chosen them are you ready Cherry?

Cherry: Yes babe ready.

Crystal: And of course the only person I’ve decided to do this is me, ha!

• Cherry laughs -

Cherry: I was thinking: “whose she contacted”

Crystal: No it’s me! I mean, I try and think of someone that’s -sort of- in the drag world thats closer than I am to you-

Cherry: No it’s me! It’s meeee!

Crystal: -and I couldn’t think of anyone so! The first thing I’ve said to describe Cherry Liquor is;… ‘Ugly’.

• Cherry & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: Why you so ugly babe?

Cherry: D’ya know what? Like, for the first part of drag I used to really like, pull ugly expressions for the sake of it, I kinda just do it now and d’ya know why I think I do that?

(18:32)

Crystal: Cos you don’t take life too seriously.

Cherry: Yeah don’t take life too seriously, but I love the whole Ugly Sister look d’ya know what I mean so I’m an ugly bitch.

Crystal: Yeah well this is the thing is that I get such a- I really thrive off of making other people laugh, it gives me that - you know - that-them good Endorphins and so, and we both have always enjoyed um, smashing down -sort of- like the glass wall that is um coolness, so when you go on social media and you go on someones profile and it’s all just very pristine and very cool-

Cherry: Oh no I don’t like that.

Crystal: And thought it’s great and it’s amazing, and it rocks someone people’s worlds- for me I love it, going on to someone’s profile and though seeing all of that coolness, and nice looks, performance videos- every now and then to come across just a camp old picture of just a- you know pulling a stupid face-

Cherry: With 10 chins and several grapes stuffed up someones nose d’ya know what I mean?

Crystal: -yeah I thought you were gonna say arse then I could relate to you-

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: -but nose I can’t um, but it just it brings people back down to earth that someone can laugh at themselves and I think thats so important but obviously I’m kidding with ‘Ugly’- the first word that I’m using to describe Cherry Liquor is; ‘Kind’.

(19:47)

Cherry: Awwwww.

Crystal: I think you’re really kind, d’ya know the reason why I am saying ‘Kind’ is because - and I know you’re gonna explain this but I just wanna, there’s gonna be a lot of me talking shit in this so listeners get fucking ready- um-

Cherry: Never.

Crystal: Never- have you always been and have you been brought up to be a really kind person?

Cherry: I think so like, I was always like, when someone says that “Oh you’re kind” it makes me kinda go “eurgh thanks” and shudder a bit, um-

Crystal: Yeah it’s a bit gross init.

Cherry: -but I just, I don’t know I just, with like, other drag queens and things like that I, I don’t know I just I don’t see the point- like I guess it comes from when I was at school I was bullied and things like that, there’s no reason to just go and be horrible or nasty to someone for the sake of it, um I don’t know I just, I’m just me babe I don’t know, I feel a bit weird, people saying I’m kind.

(20:47)

Crystal: No I just, I think what you just said then with the bullying aspect I think that rings very true because there’ve been times where we have been together and - you know - we’ve either been talking about a certain situation or someone’s tried to get at you or get at me and we both just get very frustrated that they would go out of there way to make someone feel bad but-

Cherry: Yeah see that’s the thing I just don’t see the point in it and- like I’ve said to you several times - I like, things like shows and my work that I do and things like that, I need so much energy for that so I’d rather save my positive energy to put it in to that rather than use negative energy towards someone or anything like that, I just haven’t got time I’d just rather not… I just can’t be bothered.

(21:31)

Crystal: I think as we’ve gotten older we’ve realised just what a waste of time it is.

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: When you give yourself over to too much negative energy or negative circumstances or when you don’t- when you don’t act- and this is the thing, a lot of people get very trivial when you say “when you act like an adult” because so many people thrive off of um “I’m not growing up, I’m not gonna grow up, living young, living youthfully” and I think that can be done at the same time as acting as an adult.

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: D’ya know what I mean?

Cherry: Yep completely.

Crystal: So what I call- when it comes to negative scenarios and people being unkind, what I do- I do three things which is focus on the self-projection, like what is going on in their life that’s making them act this way, 2. Is to have empathy, and 3. is to band-aid it which is when you rip things off like a band aid so if someone’s being a dick you just go; “Why you being a dick?” you know straight away and you just get it over with, get it done, rip it off like a band aid so that everyone can go back to having a good time.

(22:33)

Cherry: Yeah and then it’s done, you miss one off there!

Crystal: Did I?

Cherry: 4.

Crystal: I said 3!

Cherry: Yeah but 4, you message me and bitch.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: Well yeah, we-we talk shit.

Cherry: Well we don’t bitch, we vent.

Crystal: Well- I think we bitch as well.

• Cherry & Crystal laugh -

Cherry: You being a bitch!?

Crystal: I’m not making us some innocent Carole’s here Jesus.

Cherry: Oh I am, I’m a good girl.

Crystal: You’re a very good girl, very good girl babe.

Cherry: You’re a Carole, I’m a Karen.

Crystal: I’m a cow.

Cherry: Where’s the manager?

• Cherry & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: The second word on my 7 things with Ch- to describe Cherry Liquor is; ‘Funny’ have you always been funny cos you are a funny lil fart?

Cherry: Oh! I am not a fart, d’ya know what when I was at school like, everyone in the years above me- even people that used to bully me- like, some of the things I use to come out with they just cracked up at, and I don’t know I’ve just always been- I love making people laugh like, I pref- like, rather than just a joke or anything like that, things that are just like, stupid that you’re literally like “What are you doing?” But it’s hilarious.

(23:38)

Crystal: You will literally take something that not- that’s- you’ll literally take anything that isn’t politically incorrect and you will somehow make it hysterical and there are so many- there is an endless list of circumstances & scenario where I’ve sat there minding my own business and somethings happened and I’ve taken no notice but Cherry’s just somehow made it absolutely hilarious; one word: - and I know you’re laughing already - is ‘porridge’.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: I-

Cherry: Whats the time?

Crystal: Stoop! Stooop! So we were in a frickin’- we were in a- we were in a cafe and I asked- the woman came over-

Cherry: A vegan cafe.

(24:21)

Crystal: A vegan cafe well, a cafe with vegan options, not that they were fully stocked and then this woman comes over, the waitress comes over and says; “What would you like?” and I went “I’ll have the porridge”

• Cherry & Crystal snigger -

Cherry: And she literally didn’t even respond apart from “Whats the time?”

Crystal: She crossed her eyebrows and looked at me and went “Whats the time?”

• Cherry & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: “Whats the time?” And I went “Ooh it’s 11:15am” and then she just went, what did she say?

Cherry: Well didn’t she point at the menu and it said ‘Porridge till 11’ sorry!

Crystal: Porridge till 11 so-

• Crystal cackles -

Crystal: And ever since! When Cherry’s winding me up or just wants to just do whatever she wants she’ll just look at me and-“Whats the time?” Whats the time?

Cherry: Whats the time babe?

(25:14)

Crystal: And she does it with vegan menus, you do it-there’s so many other things that have occurred that will escape my brain at the moment but one is obviously very iconic that we’re gonna talk about in a bit but you are just such a funny little fart and I think it just comes with you happy-go-lucky nature of life which goes back to me talking about - you know - ripping stuff off like a band aid, you very much just wanna screw negativity and not give it your time of day so that you can spend a lot of your day being a positive person.

Cherry: Oh I do I love a laugh.

Crystal: But you love a moan as well don’t you?

Cherry: Ooh I do.

Crystal: …You being a bitch?

Cherry: You bitch.

(25:55)

Crystal: The four- wait the jjrfhjrfhu- the third word that I’ve used to describe Cherry Liquor is; ‘loyal’.

Cherry: N’awww.

Crystal: I think you’re extremely loyal, to the point there are points- you can ask a few of my close friends where I’ve spoken to them about you and called you absolutely awful um-

• Cherry sniggers -

Crystal: -I… you’ve stuck by me through so much bullshit and that is in both directions so when I’ve been an arsehole and when someone else has hurt me or whatever and you’ve really-like there’ve been times where I have been gobsmacked when you’ve stood up for me and it’s like bonkers, it still ratt- cos you know a lot of people when it comes to someone having-going through a hard time, a lot of people just wanna be there to support them and just make sure they’re okay but then there are people out there that just wanna be like “Right! Where are they?”

(26:45)

Cherry: Yeah, thing is like it’s a similar thing to do with the like, energy and things and like, just bullshit like, I can like I know when someones bullshitting or even like that and I literally just can’t be arsed with it I’m like “No, not listening” like it just kind of goes over my head, always has.

Crystal: Yeah and I think you’ve just always been true to your word, you’re very-I think once you give someone your friendship you’re very precious with it because there’s obviously been times where someones mucked you about or someones taken advantage and again, there’s no filter with Cherry Liquor you will speak on it or make it very clear that you’re not to be messed with which is something that I do and I very much take inspiration from that and, you also -as much as you make it clear that you’re not to be messed with- you make it clear that you’re always gonna be there.

(27:41)

Cherry: Oh completely.

Crystal: But I don’t think that’s, that’s not taking kindness for weakness.

Cherry: Oh no not at all, no I’m not weak.

Crystal: You’re just drawn that way.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: Do you think you’re a very loyal person? Have you- when you-

Cherry: I think I am like, I really-I do look out for my friends and like, if anyone, like even with things to do with people like, I’m not gonna say slagging off but moaning about people I’m like; “Would you say that to them?”

Crystal: Yeah exactly.

Cherry: And if the answer is “No” then don’t say it to me, especially if it’s a friend like, a mutual friend like, that’s the worst thing like, and I’ve had-been in situations before where um friends, friends have come to me before and said “Oh this person was moaning about you, but don’t say I’ve said anything” I’m like; well I’m going to!

Crystal: Yeah exactly.

(28:30)

Cherry: And I always do, I’m like “Well this person said” Like obviously yeah, like sometimes it does throw a spanner in the works but I just- like i say again - I just haven’t got time for it.

Crystal: But it also makes that person that’s told you learn not to be a shit stirrer.

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: Ultimately I think -you know- it’s just-it’s boring at the end of the day, it’s boring when people-er I think that’s something cos years and years ago I mean it was something that I would entertain and get enjoyment out of like bitching, and gossiping and all that jazz and thinking -you know- I’m on this high horse and whatnot but as time goes on and you learn your lessons, you jump hurdles, you miss them and whatnot and you sort of get an act together and become -you know- not an idiot.

Cherry: Not a knob.

Crystal: Not a knob! And -you know- I think that’s when-when someone is trying to be a bit of an idiot I think that’s the most-the passion comes from a place of experience of knowing that it’s not gonna do you any favours, we speak on it, if someones taking us for a ride or if someones misbehaving or whatever, it comes from a place of experience-

(29:38)

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: -thats where the passion comes from in when you just go; just don’t be a dick.

Cherry: And-and from a -it sounds silly but-and from a place of love like, what is the point?

Crystal: What is the point? Exactly, it’s just a waste of time and nothing-you’re not gonna gain a single thing, a single thing, the only thing you’re gonna gain is a lesson learnt in a hard way.

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: Anyway! Let’s go to the fourth word er to describe Cherry Liquor which is; ‘Creative’ You’re a very creative person.

Cherry: Oh thank you babe!

(30:07)

Crystal: Well there-I don’t think you get enough credit for it because, a lot of stuff that you’ve worn and a lot of um numbers you’ve put together, you’ve put together entirely yourself like your Finding Nemo and your um a few of your outfits and dresses, and I don’t think a lot of people know that you’ve made some of your own outfits.

Cherry: Oh yeah I’ve-um like, when I first started out I made a hell of a lot more than I do now um, but yeah costume-wise I always used to make stuff like, as a like, kid like arts & crafts things I guess um, and yeah so I’ve just really like, like the Finding Nemo thing that took me a month to make.

(30:47)

Crystal: Jesus.

Cherry: Um and yeah like, I real- that’s the thing - I really enjoy it um and I would like to make more things like that, like even now but it just takes too much time babe.

Crystal: It does and I think there’s a queen in New York called Marti Gould Cummings and er she says “can’t I just pay someone to do it for me” and thats just how- thats the way-thats the way my brain goes because I’d rather -you know- keep some- give someone else my money and -you know- help them out.

Cherry: Yeah see I do that a lot now and I’d rath- I say, I can’t remember the last time I made something entirely to be honest and I -like I say- I pay people to do it now but, now, because of the situation and earning less and things like that, um it may have to happen soon.

Crystal: Oh of course.

Cherry: May have to start making things.

Crystal: I mean the more- rather you than me, I can’t make shit, but the fifth word that I’ve used to describe Cherry Liquor is; ‘Silly.’

Cherry: Silly bitch.

(31:51)

Crystal: You’re a silly bitch, I’m a silly bitch.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: Have you always been really silly?

Cherry: Yeah, I have.

Crystal: It’s weird isn’t it? Your-your-you are quite the silly sausage.

Cherry: I think you have to be babe, I don’t like to take things too seriously, it comes with the like, being funny one I suppose, like anything that like, anything that you don’t think is funny I can make funny that’s what I like to think anyway.

Crystal: Well this is the thing is that there comes a time and a point in life where- it’s like Joan Rivers used to say- you have to be able to laugh at things-

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: You have to be able to give you that- it has to- comedy is therapy and er a lot of people get through things by laughing and by making jokes and what-not, and you know I remember I think um earlier on this year er when Luca passed away, when he was killed, I remember I think within a week I was with a friend and I took my black coat off and I went; “Well I made good use of him.”

(32:50)

Cherry: Oh my god.

- Cherry & Crystal chuckle -

Crystal: But you know what! I don’t- I do not condone animal fur in fashion or anything but it’s just a way people get through things.

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: I think your silliness is a similar sort of um operation that you put into place is that silliness just keeps ya-just keeps ya going.

Cherry: It does… you silly bitch.

Crystal: You silly bitch. Now we’ve covered kind of the next one- the sixth thing I’ve used to describe Cherry Liquor is; ‘No bullshit.’

Cherry: Yeah we’ve covered that ain’t we?

Crystal: You’re so no bullshit to the point- to the point that it does not matter- and I’m telling all the listeners this- it does not matter how close you get to Cherry, how er you know how long you’ve known her regardless of whatever-

Cherry: Are you talking from experience?

Crystal: From experience! If you do anything to annoy her, if you do anything that she does not agree with she’s gonna tell you before you’ve had- before you even taken your next breath.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: She’s gonna be like: “But why?!”

Cherry: “Right you! I’ve got! Listen here! Cos I ain’t having this!”

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: “No, I’ll kick off, I’ll fucking have the lot of ya, I’ll kick off” But it’s been a very, very long time since you’ve had that moment with me but they have occurred, they have very much occurred. But the last thing I’ve used to describe Cherry Liquor is; ‘A mess.’

(34:11)

Cherry: A mess.

Crystal: What a fucking mess!

Cherry: Like the fucking pub.

Crystal: Now, I think… you’re just gonna have to do it.

- Cherry wheezes -

Crystal: You’re just gonna have to do it, I’ve heard this-

Cherry: Excuse me?

Crystal: -a thousa- Crystal starts to laugh through her words- I’ve heard this a thousand times befo-

Cherry: Excuse me?

Crystal: -for our listeners!

Cherry: Excuse me babe!

Crystal: For-for our listeners out-

Cherry: Can I speak to the manager?

Crystal: Fo-o-o-r-

• Crystal cackles -

Cherry: Oh is the manager there?… No whats up? Where’s the manager?

• Crystal continues to cackle -

Crystal: For our listeners at h-

Cherry: Pubs a mess babe.

Crystal: -No excuse me! Excuse me! For-

• Crystal cackles again -

Crystal: For our listeners at home-

Cherry: Have you seen this?

Crystal: Can you-

Cherry: It’s a mess.

(34:50)

Crystal: Can you please explain, why you & I- because though it’s your story you didn’t realise how funny it was until I kept telling you how funny it was and it is iconic. There was a morning - I’ll-I’ll let you takeover but- there was a morning, so specifically the Sunday morning of Brighton Pride 20…17? I wanna say?

Cherry: I think so.

Crystal: And-and I walked with you um walked to meet you for brunch and I sat down and she told me about this experience that she had earlier on in the morning of going to a pub she’d worked at the night before to get her things because she left them in the dressing room or in the dressing space overnight, so she ends up rocking up to the pub and- go on Cherry.

(35:40)

Cherry: Um went to the pub, walk in and there was a cleaner in there and the place was a- like, it was a shithole like there was confetti everywhere, there were like drinks still everywhere, the floor was covered in alcohol like, it was awful so I walk in and I said “Babe um is the manager around?” And this man just looked up at me, said nothing but “Pubs a mess babe” and I said, I was like “What?” He was like “Pubs a mess.” I said “Well yeah I know babe I can see that” I said “But is the manager in?” And he went “Pubs a mess babe!” I was like “Yeah I know it was Pride last night so it’s gonna be” I said “Where’s the manager?” He said “He’s not here-Pubs a mess babe.” And literally I was stood there for about 15 minutes talking to this man um asking him where the manager was and all he could tell me was the bloody pub was a mess.

(36:33)

Crystal: Pubs a mess!

Cherry: Pubs a mess! That was it!

Crystal: It’s a mess babe.

Cherry: Literally “Babe where’s the manager?” “Pubs a mess.”

Crystal: It is ridiculous because I remember at the time finding it so funny but it was the more we said it, once we’d did the Iceland video and released it, and it just caught on and it is just the best-I still think that um I put together a very, very, basic, amateur dance track-version of that story, I still think you need to come out with some kind of major single with “Pubs A Mess.”

Cherry: Oh you say it’s “basic” It’s bloody camp.

Crystal: Oh is it!?

Cherry: I think it’s camp.

Crystal: Oh cheers babes.

Cherry: D’ya know they played it in HB a couple of times.

Crystal: Do they?

Cherry: Yeah!

Crystal: Oh god well if you wanna hear it-it’s on my Soundcloud if you just type ‘pubs a mess’ on Soundcloud it’s camp as tits. But now we’re gonna move on to our next section which is called; ‘True Love’.

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

(37:27)

Crystal: ‘True Love’ is a time for my guest to talk to me about something they have loved, something that they have loved since the dawn of time, can you think of anything that you’ve loved since birth that you still love so much to this day?

Cherry: Okay, this is hilarious and it’s hilarious that you’re asking this- so I’m gonna say musical theatre.

Crystal: Oh yes.

Cherry: Ooh yeah!

Crystal: Which is quite trivial in this time isn’t it?

Cherry: Yeah so the other night on BGT they had a musicals thing, did you see it?

Crystal: Um I have not because I know it’ll make me very upset.

Cherry: …Babe. Upset? So Pete & I - Pete’s my husband if you don’t know - so Pete & I were watching it and they did 3 sections, they did Mary Poppins, Phantom and then Les Mis, during Mary Poppins I was fine, I was like “Oh this is good” Then during Phantom -because Phantom is my Mum’s favourite show- so when I was watching that I was a bit like; “Ooh” like I felt a bit of a lump in my throat, and I was like “Ooh this” like “I feel a bit like” it just felt really odd, like I’d lost something? Um and then when it got to Les Mis, the first time I saw Les Mis I didn’t overly like it but they changed… like, everyone that had performed then came on stage and was singing together and then they went into One Day More and I was thinking “Oh my god I’m gonna cry” I was like “Don’t, no, you’re fine” and then! They sang -rather than ‘One Day More’ they sang ‘One Show More’- Oh my god.

(39:00)

Crystal: Ooh…

Cherry: I was literally hysterical, like obviously I’ve been with Pete for like, 7 years um and he was sat next to me and he was like “Are you alright?” Honestly! I lost it.

Crystal: Argh, I mean-

Cherry: Like I was like bawling and he was like “Babe like, breathe!” I was like EURGH!

• Crystal laughs -

Cherry: I was absolutely hysterical! And he would like- d’ya know when you like, look at someone and you’re like not sure what to do? Pete was just sat there like; “I’m not sure what to do” And I picked the pillow up, was crying into the pillow and he was like “Like I know you like musicals but you’re overreacting” And I was like; honestly, having that there all your life like I- you know what I’m like-

(39:44)

Crystal: Yeah!

Cherry: -I used to go to a musical like, at least what, twice a month?

Crystal: Well we’d go for a matinee, go for dinner and then go see one evening one wouldn’t we?

Cherry: Yeah, like I use to go to so many and the fact that like, they were obviously saying that so many of them are out of work and hadn’t worked since February and, it literally just hit home, not just for the like, obviously cos like I’d seen so many as I constantly went but I just could not imagine, I can’t imagine life without it.

Crystal: I know it’s crazy but they’re slowly but surely coming back which is something to be hopeful for-

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: -there’s a reason why I haven’t watched it and it’s because I know it’ll make me too emotional and eurgh, eurgh I just c-

Cherry: Babe you’ll be nothing like I was honestly.

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: But-

Cherry: Honestly!

(40:34)

Crystal: But musical theatre is something that’s regimented both of our lives in good ways and I think -you know- as drag performers we are the show that normally when all the musical thespians -once they’re finished in the West End or in the UK tours in Portsmouth- they normally come along to the Gay bars afterwards don’t they?

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: And so there’s this- there’s an unspoken- I would like to say in all performance industries and I would also say in dance industries, in sex work, in go-going, and drag there’s this weird interlink of all of them you know it’s just the sort of journey of a night?

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: There’s just this energy that we all share and I think that’s what was sort of- you had such heavy empathy because it was happening to you as well?

Cherry: Yeah, it was really hard and it was- I say it was really hard but it was really odd as well at the same time because I- that emotion obviously that has never been taken away before… but it felt ridiculous at the same time, I said to Pete “Why am I reacting like this?”

(41:40)

Crystal: Maybe it’s because it was one massive exhale?

Cherry: Yeah maybe, it was a lot.

Crystal: Because I found, I mean I’ll get a bit candid but today I almost, like, broke a little bit because just things were getting to me as they’ve been getting to a lot of people, and I haven’t cried once since the start of lockdown, I have’t sort-of had a breaking moment, I’ve had many episodes and panic attacks and what-not just as many people have but I haven’t cried and I’m craving a cry just like Cameron Diaz at the end of The Holiday, I am craving one-

(42:14)

Cherry: Yesssss.

Crystal: -because I know it’s gonna sort me out but I just get-I get-I get fearful because I feel like-you know- when you are someone that er lives with PTSD and heavy bouts of anxiety & depression you sort of get fearful because you don’t wanna cry and then go into an attack or an episode, you wanna cry and exhale and let it all out and I think-

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: -because you’re such a strong-wielded person, again you live so positively and very happy-go-lucky, when you cry it’s like a big release of tensions and -you know- er every time someone’s er tried to present you with negative ‘en-sity’-tried to present you with negative energy you’ve pushed it aside and it’s getting all of that and just going; “eurgh!”

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: But yeah!

Cherry: Totally get you girl, but yes so musical theatre.

(43:01)

Crystal: Musical theatre, we love a bit of musical theatre, if you could take Cherry and put her in any musical, in any role what role would you put her in?

Cherry: Ooh I don’t know, d’ya know I’d love to do an all-drag version of Hairspray, I’m not sure who I’d play.

Crystal: I’m not sure- I’d just, no you’d have to be… erm oh no it’s tough isn’t it? I may- I would probably put you as Miss Baltimore Crabs.

• Cherry chuckles -

Crystal: I would love to hear you do -I would love to hear you do the erm, “No we can’t!”

Cherry & Crystal: “Yes we caaaan!”

Crystal: Like, like you’d suit that role and just like “Oh my god how times have changed!”

Cherry: “How times have chaaanged!”

Crystal: Like, that is so you that number.

Cherry: So yeah I’d love that.

Crystal: Whereas I can’t really see you being Mrs Turnblad but that would be awesome, um we’re now gonna take a little break!

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet!Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(44:39)

Crystal: The next section Cherry is; ‘Topic Of Choice’.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

Crystal: ‘Topic Of Choice’ is a time for us to talk about whatever you wanna talk about right now, something that’s been on your brain, something that’s been on your mind, we can talk about anything from a biscuit you’ve just eaten to a television show you’ve just watched, a film you enjoy you know, something that’s taken up a lot of your headspace or something you’re looking forward to, anything you want lets talk about it, go for it!

(45:08)

Cherry: Oh fuck me I don’t know.

Crystal: I don’t know.

Cherry: Tell you what I have had a bit of a day, it’s a bit boring but it’s house stuff cos we had a leak.

Crystal: Oh no, you had a leak!?

Cherry: We had a leak.

Crystal: Oh no!

Cherry: Not had a leek like a vegetable, don’t get excited you vegan um-

• Crystal laughs -

Cherry: Yeah we had a leek so we’ve just moved into a new house, had a new boiler fitted and something went wrong and there was a leak um so I’ve had a right bloody day with that.

Crystal: Well that’s not good is it?

Cherry: No, told you it was boring, nothing else has happened today but I actually had to move all of my drag stuff out of the drag room into our bedroom um so that they could get to it which was really annoying.

Crystal: Do you miss shows so much that you find yourself yelling to like, the boiler man; “Make some noise!”

Cherry: “Make some noise!” D’ya know earlier I was practicing a couple’a songs and then the new neighbours walked past and kind-of pulled a funny face and I was like “Oh shit they can hear me”

Crystal: Oh get used to it babe you’re gonna be singing till the cows come home I bet.

(46:11)

Cherry: I was singing “Anything you can do I can do better!”

Crystal: No you can’t!

Cherry: Yes I can!

Crystal: No you can’t.

Cherry: Yes I can.

Crystal: No you fucking can’t.

Cherry: Whats the time?

• Cherry & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: Um but speaking of make some noise-I am, we’re gonna get on to Pet Peeves section right after this but um do you know what lets go straight into it we’re gonna go into; ‘Pet Peeves’.

Cherry: Go on.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

Crystal: Now this is a time to talk about whats grinding our gears at the moment, whats pissing us off at the moment and one thing I’m really bored of-well not bored of-

Cherry: You’re gonna say the same thing I bet ya!

Crystal: I don- are you sure what you gonna say?

Cherry: No what you gonna say?

(46:55)

Crystal: Okay; I have seen a few clips on social media at shows-

Cherry: Oh.

Crystal: -where someone on stage has gone like “Everybody scream!” And I’m like NO, you fucking idiot.

Cherry: Was it a video of me?

• Cherry giggles -

Crystal: No! But like cos you haven’t, we’ve worked together but you can’t go like; “Make some n-“ I’ve seen people go like “Make some noise-ooh no don’t make some noise’ like there’s that amazing clip of Donna Marie when she’s singing Lady Gaga-

Cherry: Love that.

Crystal: And she goes um “Sing a long” and then she goes “No-no-don’t sing a long” and goes back into her Welsh accent.

• Cherry chuckles -

Crystal: Aw it’s amazing.

Cherry: I do that, I do you know Let Me Entertain You starts with “Hell Is Gone And Heavens Here, There’s Nothing Left For You To Fear, Shake Your Ass Come Over Here Now Scream!”

Crystal: “Now Scream!” but don’t you bitch!

Cherry: Literally the amount of times I’ve done it and gone “Don’t! Don’t!”

(47:40)

Crystal: “Don’t do i-“ See that’s fine but when people are actually trying to get audiences to do it and the audiences end up doing it, it’s just so disrespectful to the venue you’re in.

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: Because it’s the venue that’s gonna get it not you.

Cherry: I’ve seen lots of places- well there’s these big ole’ fines now ain’t there? D’ya what annoys me at the moment?

Crystal: What?

Cherry: And it’s not really- well it is kind of industry-related cos it happen the other night at my show- people wearing masks with their nose popping out the top, I literally-

Crystal: Oh it’s so stupid.

Cherry: There was a woman yesterday and I was like “Oi put your mask over ya nose” while I was on stage and she was like; “What?” I was like “Your mask needs to go over your nose” And she pulled it up over her nose and I was like “Bit higher, bit higher” Till it covered her face and I was like “That’s fucking better”

- Crystal cackles -

Crystal: Oh my god.

Cherry: Er yeah that’s really, really annoying me at the minute.

Crystal: It just makes no sense! And it does-it drives me insane when I see people walking round with their masks on their chins!

(48:37)

Cherry: Put that over your big- d’ya know what? I’ve actually worked that out though.

Crystal: Just take it off!

Cherry: People are doing that to cover up their chins.

Crystal: Well yeah maybe but just take it off it defeats the point having them just sitting on your neck or whatever, it should be on your mouth, covering your face or just off of your head. Off with your head!

Cherry: We are moaners aren’t we?

Crystal: But um “On your head?”

Cherry: On your head?

Crystal: On your head? Is there anything else that’s grinding your gears at the moment?

Cherry: Um yes, not like obviously this is like covid-related again which is annoying cos it’s all I’ve gone on about but not being able to plan things, and do things as I want them to.

Crystal: Yeah.

Cherry: But it is what it is and we’re working through it, and I’ve got lots of fabulous ideas and lots of things in the pipeline which you know about but I’m not gonna share on here yet but yeah!

(49:21)

Crystal: Oh yeah very exciting things, we’ve got-we’ve got a few things planned that I’m really looking forward to um-

Cherry: Can’t wait girl.

Crystal: Can’t wait babe but er lets go on to the last section which is; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: ‘Somebody To Love’ is a time for you to talk to me about someone or something that has been a recent, or new discovery or something that you’re really enjoying again, that you’re loving, it could be a person it could be a thing, it could be a thing you’re doing or something you’ve watched or enjoyed, is there anything that comes to mind when you think of something that you’ve recently really been loving?

Cherry: No.

• Crystal & Cherry laugh -

Cherry: No!

Crystal: Oh my god. No!?

Cherry: No!

Crystal: Are you being serious?

Cherry: Deadly!

Crystal: So there’s nothing that you’ve enjoyed at the moment?!

Cherry: No!

(50:13)

Crystal: So there is not a SINGLE thing that’s happened in recent times that you are- that you’ve really enjoyed?

Cherry: No everything’s pissing me off.

Crystal: Not a single show, what about our-

Cherry: There ain’t no shows!! Don’t make me start on that again you bitch!

Crystal: We have had shows!

Cherry: Um…

Crystal: Anything really funny happened recently?

Cherry: I don’t know!

Crystal: Anything funny happened recently?

Cherry: Really funny?

Crystal: This is like trying to get a needle from a haystack jesus.

Cherry: No!

• Cherry sniggers -

Crystal: Stop saying no!

Cherry: No! Like, I don’t know it’s-

Crystal: Yeah…

Cherry: Noo! D’ya know what actually is nice, I’ve thought of something- like working with other queens again.

(50:58)

Crystal: Of course.

Cherry: Like, cos obviously we haven’t- I haven’t worked with people since that? February/March and then to like, and to be able to actually see people again, like and actually interact and share a backstage area and actually see people again, that’s really nice.

Crystal: Well there’s this thing that I’ve really-really enjoyed and it’s done a number on me mentally in a good way is just talking to other performers and having that reassurance that you’re not going mad and that you’re not alone in this and that’s something that I think anyone out there that’s listening that’s just the done thing is that we really-we’re not all in this together because everyone is in very different scenarios dependent-

Cherry: Yeah.

(51:45)

Crystal: -on where you are in the world let alone where you are in each country because of-you know- each city is different to each city-is that your tummy that just rumbled?

Cherry: No I was just about to burp.

Crystal: Oh.

Cherry: But I held it in.

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: I was like; what the bloody hell is that?

Cherry: What the bloody hell was that?!

Crystal: What the fucking hell was that?!

Cherry: Just farted babe.

Crystal: Oooh lovely I can smell it from here, nutty erm-

Cherry: Would you rim him erm?

Crystal: Noo! No but errr…

Cherry: What you doing?

Crystal: Would you rim him? But yeah it’s just you know- we’re all going through some kind of bullshit with this and we all have our anxieties and the things that are worrying us and to just go to a show and have someone in the same industry or someone with the same likes & dislikes whether it be a friend that you’re going to or whether you’re doing a show and working it, to have these conversations to just put your mind at ease for a little bit it’s been nice!

(52:36)

Cherry: Yeah and like, I know you’re saying we’re not all like, everyone’s situation is different but it’s nice to know like- I know this sounds horrendous - but when you see other queen’s and they’re like “How many gigs you got this month?” “Two” D’ya know what I mean?

Crystal: Yeah, the only thing that kind-of bothers me is when I’m seeing people doing those- as if it’s back-

Cherry: Don’t I know what you’re gonna say-

Crystal: -in January-

Cherry: -“Ooh gigs this month”

Crystal: -and they’ve released like, they’ve done an image of all their dates and I’m like, read the room hun! Read the room!

Cherry: Yeah.

Crystal: Because it’s all good and well you informing people where you are but you can do that weekly or like if there’s something that needs to be sold or something that needs to be promoted just promote that one event but to post your entire calendar of gigs when some people are out there-

(53:22)

Cherry: “I’ve got 400 gigs this week”

Crystal: “That’s it! 2022’s all booked up!”

• Cherry laughs -

Crystal: “Pandemic is over!” Like, it’s just- I find it really insensitive and I really hope that people, if anyone’s listening that’s done it you know just do it one gig at a time you know? Unless you need to sell things and you’re-

Cherry: No you’re being polite, don’t do it! You bitch!

Crystal: You bitch! Oh my goodness me, well we’re slowly but surely coming to the end of our little interview here and at the end of the first season of What Are You Like?! And you haven’t listened to any of it Cherry so I’m not even gonna ask what you thought of it but er-

Cherry: You know what? You-saying that I’ve heard like, clips.

Crystal: Yeah because I’ve posted 1 minute clips on my social media.

Cherry: Yeah but I’ve heard other clips and that what like other people have posted up.

Crystal: How have they done that?

Cherry: Well like-

Crystal: You’re talking shit!

Cherry: No I honestly.

(54:16)

Crystal: …Right.

Cherry: Cos I heard a couple’a other bits from Victoria Scone that just weren’t on the actual thing.

Crystal: Oh I love Vicky.

Cherry: She’a good girl isn’t she?

Crystal: Very good girl, very good girl.

Cherry: Very good girl.

Crystal: Let me ask you this; what is something that has occurred between the two of us that we never fail to make you laugh when you remember it?

Cherry: Oh my god there’s too bloody many, there’s too many, the vegan thing makes me laugh.

Crystal: Vegan?

Cherry: What’s the time?

Crystal: What’s the time? Well whats-

Cherry: You turn me into the toast?

Crystal: You turn me into the toast.

Cherry: Turn left. Okay. Why you gone left for?

• Crystal cackles -

Cherry: Cos you told me to go left you dick!

Crystal: No! Oh my god, we were driving one time and I went “Take the third exit” and you took the second exit and I was like “What?”

(55:09)

Cherry: No you said “Go left!”

Crystal: No you said-

Cherry: “Go left”

• Crystal starts laughing through her words -

Crystal: You wouldn’t know would you!

Cherry: No and then we were on that stupid bloody road for 45 minutes!

• Cherry & Crystal chuckle -

Crystal: Oh I still-

Cherry: “Go left.” “Ok” “What you going left for?”

Crystal: What time is it?

Cherry: Too late for porridge?

Crystal: Are you vegan? Too late for porridge?

Cherry: You’re not Goldilocks.

Crystal: Oh my god.

Cherry: Are these your friends?

Crystal: Oh-WHY?

Cherry: WHY?

- Cherry giggles -

Crystal: Are these your friends? Yeah, why? Why?

Cherry: D’ya know what a recent one I love actually was-um you when you went into the audience at The Glory and you were like-I was like “Right Trisha here we go Trisha will you get back on the stage please” and then you “Vindaloo! Vindaloo!”

• Cherry & Crystal laugh-

Crystal: Oh it’s stupid-that’s you know that’s gotta be 12 years of being taken to Stamford Bridge to see Chelsea for that to come out me jesus “Vindaloo!”

Cherry: Welcome to Trisha. Trisha! Get back on the stage.

Crystal: Oh my god. Camp times, camp iconic times, well Cherry-

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: -you’re my bestie I love you and I don’t know when I’m next seeing you but we have- by the time this comes out there’ll have probably been in the know of it but if they’re not but- we’ll just say it anyway; Cherry & I are doing a very fabulous Christmas duo show called Lubrikunt & Liquor Ruin Christmas.

Cherry: Yes we are.

Crystal: On Saturday November 21st at The Glory in London, there’s two shows, one at 6pm and one at 8pm, come on down, come see us, tickets will be on sale soon or they’ll already be on sale when this is out, have you got anything else to say Cherry?

(56:57)

Cherry: Buy tickets, come and see us, it’s gonna be camp!

Crystal: What else- have you got anything else going on at the moment goal?

Cherry: Um not really, obviously I’ve got a few things in the pipeline which I can’t quite share yet um-

Crystal: You sound like one of them queens that -you know- are in their first two years of drag and they’re like “Secret project, can’t say anything”

Cherry: “Secret project, can’t say anything” Um I have recently started a gameshow at the Hampshire Boulevard, um which is on every Sunday and it is honestly before doing it I was like “I’m not sure this is going to work” so we do Play Your Cards Right, Deal Or No Deal and The Generation Game all in one show, it is honestly the campest most- I’m just having fun with it.

Crystal: Amazing.

(57:40)

Cherry: It feels like something new and it’s just fun so come down, it starts at 6 o’clock, and it’s every Sunday, very camp.

Crystal: And that’s at the HB in Portsmouth because all she wanted was something new!

• Cherry chuckles -

Crystal: Well thank you so much for coming on my podcast, thank you so much for being my final guest of season one, it’s been a joyous season, we’ve learnt a lot and thank god… what?

• Cherry & Crystal laugh -

Cherry: Thank god I’m here!

Crystal: I was just about to say that and was like; what? We’ve learnt so much along the way with all of our fabulous guests and I’m so-so pleased to finish it all with a good ole’ cackle with me’pal Chez.

(58:20)

Cherry: Oh it’s been good fun, thank you for having me, before I go I just need to ask you something though…

Crystal: What?

Cherry: What’s the time?

- Crystal laughs -

Crystal: Right that’s it, cool!

Cherry: See ya later babe!

Crystal: Done! Bye!

Crystal: And that wraps up our final episode of season one of What Are You Like?! With me Crystal Lubrikunt, thank you so-so much for listening if you’ve listened to one episode, to two, to all of them or maybe this was your first one, thank you so much and I do-do encourage you… “do do” hehehehe- I do encourage you to go back and listen to each episode with each spectacular guest. If you wanna follow Cherry that’s @TheCherryLiquor, that’s T-H-E-C-H-E-R-R-Y-L-I-Q-U-O-R - I believe? She’s gonna kill me if I get that wrong- on Instagram, and you can follow me @CrystaLubrikunt that’s C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T on Instagram as well. Thank you so-so much for listening, and supporting What Are You Like!? Let me know if you want a season 2, I think I’m just gonna do it anyway, take care of yourselves, much love and fuck the tories, bye!

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to fade into the background -

Episode Ends

View Details

For over 8 years drag queen Cherry Liquor has been camping up the United Kingdom and the world with her give-no-shit's attitude, happy-go-lucky, silly outlook upon life and is sitting down with one of her bestest chums Crystal to close out the first season of What Are You Like?! With a fabulous cackle or two as they discuss mask etiquette, messy pubs, musical theatre & how funny a lost bowl of porridge can be - it'll make sense later. 

Music by Kevin Macleod

Transcript available at whatareyoulike.libsyn.com 

View Details

(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like… it could go one way or another but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea, wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing out there, just make sure you’re comfy, relaxed and ready for some fabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:36)

Crystal: The whiskey-sipping, smooth operator with a voice that could woo the tightest of types as well as having the charm that could make a professional boxer blush I am joined by the dashing Beau Jangles on today’s episode. An utter trailblazer on the U.K drag scene Beau Jangles has been charming audiences all over town with song, stories, wit & education but what charms Mr. Jangles? What kinda person floats our buddy Beau’s boat or worse… sinks it? Lets find out as we discover what Beau Jangles is really like.

(01:12)

Crystal: Hello Beau my darling how are you doing on this fine evening?

Beau Jangles: Hey, hey Crystal thank y’all, thank y’all for having me on the show um I am just fine, mighty fine tonight.

Crystal: Ooh that voice, it just-it tantalises the senses if you know what I mean.

Beau: I think I do know what you mean Crystal I think I do.

• Beau chuckles -

Crystal: So for our listeners at home can you tell us a bit about Beau’s background because you are such a fascinating character that has time-traveled to present day to put the worlds to right through music, tell us more about Beau?

Beau: Ah I am just your average guy um; I was born in kinda the late 1910s in New Orleans and my father was a diplomat and my mother was an opera singer, and so our house was always full of these amazing high society-types err culture, music and laughter and errr you know I started a bit of jazz you know I had the knack for it, I’d travel around and then one day in a mysterious circumstance I find myself ripped clean out of the 1940s and deposited in London in 2018, that was two years ago now so you know I’m just trying to make it work you know, in this era.

(02:25)

Crystal: And we are spoiled, we are so spoiled Beau, I had the absolute joy of coming across Beau earlier on this year before the horror show that developed in front of us at Non Binary Cabaret and I was smitten, I was absolutely taken away into this absolute fabulous world of Beau Jangles and it’s such a joy to follow you and your talents, and I just can not wait- I know we’re just at the start of the interview but I can not wait to see what the future holds for Beau Jangles because you withhold such a special stage presence and such a special talent that it’s just so- I can not wait for the full solo show of Beau Jangles that will finally be on our stages soon I’m sure but I just wanna fan girl and get that out my system from the get-go but shall we get into it? Are you ready for this interview Beau Jangles?

(03:17)

Beau: I was born ready Crystal.

Crystal: Well I wanna ask you one important question to kick off this interview, and that is; what are you like Beau Jangles? What are you like?

Beau: What am I like? Erm… What am I like? You know I’m just er you know I’m just a good time guy you know what I mean, you know what I’m saying? I like to have a drink-

Crystal: I feel you.

Beau: -I like to you know “throw the dice” you know? I like to see what entertainments this beautiful city has to offer you know, that’s just me that’s just who I am Crystal.

(03:47)

Crystal: And I get-from your stories on stage and the way that you command an audience, you’re very friendly with your audience am I right?

Beau: You know I’m an old school performer you know back in the day we’d wanna- you’re singing a song you wanna look into someones eyes and see what they had for breakfast yesterday you know what I mean?

• Crystal chuckles -

Beau: -and that’s-that’s a skill not a lot of performers, you know have these days I think it died out in 1962 I don’t know where it went but um you know thats- we like to you know- I’m personally finding that the ‘rule of 6’ you know everybody at different tables thing is working real well cos I can just sort of go over to a fine lady at one table and you know, have a little chat with her you know what I mean and she can’t spread it amongst everybody else so I can just talk to everybody and nobody’s conversation saying “hey Beau Jangle’s hitting on me too” nah.

(04:38)

Crystal: You can play the game at different times, in the same room that is-that is what we call a true player Beau Jangles, you play the game and you play it good but speaking of games and speaking of you know, talking some talk, are you ready to talk some talk with me in our first little round of this interview my darling?

Beau: I am so ready Crystal.

Crystal: Well bring on ‘7 Things’.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

(05:07)

Crystal: Now ‘7 Things’ is a time for me to get in contact with someone that you work with or someone that is in our industry, and to get 7 words off of them to describe what they think is Beau Jangles, so I spoke to the absolute innovative drag king of the U.K that is Oedipussi Rex my darling-

Beau: Aww!

Crystal: -they have supplied 7 words or 7 things to describe Beau Jangles, and the first word is; ‘witty’ do you think you’re quite a witty person Beau Jangles?

Beau: I would say that errr Oscar Wilde once said “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.” Umm and for the life of me I don’t know how the hell to be sarcastic so I’m guessing mine is all high… high-brow wit yes I would say so.

Crystal: Eurgh lovely, now the second word is- which is a bit of er it’s quite ironic and also iconic in the world of drag, the second word is; ‘multifaceted’.

Beau: Oooo, ooo your boy’s got levels mmm mmm!

(06:10)

Crystal: Mmm! So are there sides of Beau that we have yet to see or yet to discover or is there a side of Beau that keeps- you know behind closed doors?

Beau: I mean, you know what I’m always in the presence of company you know I’ve always got somebody around me you know I’m a kind of guy that keeps going 24/7 you know, and sometimes thats for a reason, sometimes you know you don’t wanna be on your own when the music stops.

Crystal: That’s deep… that is some-that is some soul there Beau.

Beau: Still waters run deep baby.

Crystal: Oh yes- now the third word that Oedipussi has used to describe you is; ‘Charming’ I mean that’s a given.

Beau: I mean- what do you think Crystal? Do you think I’m charming?

Crystal: Oh ah I’m blushing!! I’m not gonna lie I’ve been blushing this whole time!

• Beau laughs -

(06:54)

Crystal: Um where do you get your charm from? Where did Beau get his charm from?

Beau: I would say my Papa er he, he was the kinda guy that had to defuse all sorts of tense situations and er I had to learn early how to-how to kinda capture that charm and use that in my life in all sorts of situations, it’s gotten me out of a lot of scrapes.

Crystal: Oh I don’t doubt that, I don’t doubt that at all- now going from talking about how charming you are we go to quite the other end of the scale which is the fourth word that is; ‘humble’.

- Beau & Crystal laugh -

Beau: You know what- I thank you know the universe and the ancestors for everything I have, everything you know? And I recognise that some stuff is luck you know I play the cards, I know how much luck factors in so you know I could be humble, I would say I can be pretty good at being humble, I might even be the best at being humble.

(07:53)

Crystal: You know I think I have to agree cos you’ve-how long has Beau Jangle been on the London scene?

Beau: Two years yeah.

Crystal: I mean that is bonkers to have such a fully developed presence on the scene that I think over lockdown and now I think you’ve really sort of caught the attention of a lot of people now and people are wanting Beau Jangles at their show and that is such an amazing thing to have and people are talking Beau! I don’t know but we are all talking about Beau Jangles, we love-

Beau: Oh daaam!

Crystal: -us some Beau Jangles we do and we are all so excited and it is awesome because you are this smooth operator, you are this gem, this- you are humble, you’re very chill, you’re very laidback and it’s so cool.

Beau: Ha ha.

Crystal: It’s so cool!

Beau: Well now you’re making me blush Crystal.

(08:43)

Crystal: Well good because it’s about damn time someone did, now the next word that Oedipussi’s given us is; ‘Intelligent’.

Beau: Ooo you know yeah, I mean I’ll take that I mean, I learnt from the book of life you know, the school of life, the book of life you know experiences, everyday situations you know there’s always a lesson in everything.

Crystal: I think with- I think Beau likes to use his voice or their voice to- how do you identify Beau may I just ask?

Beau: Err Beau being Beau it’s he/him.

(09:22)

Crystal: Now Beau likes to use his platform as much to flirt with anybody, any living thing in the room I’d like to think, even a table & chair you never know but I also like to see that Beau uses their platform to you know be an activist and you know create space, and take up space and I find that comes with a lot of an intelligent mindset do you agree?

Beau: Um I can’t disagree Crystal the way you put that, thats um yeah I won’t disagree.

Crystal: Now the second-to-last thing that Oedipussi has used to describe Beau Jangles, the last two are sentences, they got away with it! But I’m gonna let them get away with it!

• Beau chuckles -

Crystal: And the second-to-last sentence is; “Voice of delicious velvet”.

Beau: Oooo damn um yeah.

Crystal: Now your mother was an opera singer.

(10:07)

Beau: Yes so err y-I was initially doing all the classical tracks and it was um it was interesting being a kid with Black heritage you know wanting to- wanting to perform you know cos you often get pigeon-holed into different genres, genres of what people think you should be doing but er I initially trained classically um thats true and later branched out into other styles of music so I think that-that gave me like errr an okay foundation for my singing voice and er I will take the “delicious velvet” I- can you eat velvet? I’m gon’ try now, now that I’ve got the idea in my head.

(10:48)

Crystal: Oh you better, listen you better bring it to the market because people will buy it-

• Beau chuckles -

Crystal: -people will buy it, now you talk about the err experience as a person of colour, you have used Beau to create something so awesome that you’re currently working on which is Mxngrove, could you talk more about Mxngrove?

Beau: Yes! “Man-grove” so-

Crystal: “Man-grove” oh my god listen to my ignorance soothe through this bloody microphone-

• Beau laughs -

Crystal: “Man-grove” I am so illiterate I do apologise.

(11:15)

Beau: Nah-I mean you’ve only ever seen it written down and the first ‘a’ that you’d normally have in Mangrove is an ‘X’ because we’re Queering it, you know we’re taking the ‘Man’ outta Mangrove err and it’s called Mxngrove- we’re gonna pronounce it like that [Mangrove] because you can’t say “Mux-n-grove” uhhh it’s called that after the Mangrove in Notting Hill where err members of the Black British Panthers would- and just Black people in the area back in the 70s- would meet to exchange ideas and organise, and were harassed by the police, um so then they went on a march to protest against the harassment by the police- nothing changes does it! Nothing changes - um and the organisers were arrested under-just trumped up charges, two of them; Darkus How & Althea Jones-Lecointe represented themselves and they got off and it caused a lot of reforms to policing in the U.K, so! Long story short I chose to take this amazing example of Black British activism and I chose to take it as an online listening space for Black Queer, Trans & Intersex people um to just talk about whatever they want to and I wanted it to be led by the individuals involved, we had our first session last week err and what came out of it is that people wanted to hear from other Black Queer, Trans & Intersex people about how they navigate day to day situations that can be difficult errr for- you know cos of societal pressures and people’s prejudices and things like that errr and we’ve got the next one on the 6th of October at 7:30pm (BST) and The Chateau is helping to organise it so y’all can email them, the details are on their Insta[gram], if y’all wanna join and it’s like rolling, it’s every 2 weeks and anyone can join in at whatever time.

(13:14)

Crystal: That is a-mazing, I commend you so-so much for putting that together because the current times and the current horror-shows as I said that have been developing has taken so much energy from the Black & Brown community, from different communities across this entire globe and so the fact that you still have this energy within you to create this collective of love - I would like to say _ and togetherness is so commendable so fuck yeah Beau Jangles is what I wanna say to you.

• Beau chuckles -

Beau: Thank you.

Crystal: Now the last thing that Oedipussi has des- has put together for Beau Jangles, to describe Beau Jangles I think it is a great ending to this section it is; “Suave, Sexy & Sophisticated”

(13:59)

Beau: Ooo yes I will- you know what I would like to say I try to be those things but I think those things work better when you don’t try you know?

Crystal: Oh it’s effortless Beau, it is so effortless, let me ask you; what is - at the moment - what is your favourite song to perform?

Beau: I have to say, like definitely a crowd favourite would be my version of Toxic errr-

Crystal: Oh by Miss Britney Spears.

Beau: -yes, um I kinda of do it like an old school- like if Billy Holiday did Toxic it would so like that right? That’s kind of my-

Crystal: Mmmm.

Beau: -my spin on it and um I kinda switch the words around a little to be like; I’m toxic and she’s slipping under and you know-

• Beau chuckles -

Crystal: Oh hoh-hoh-hooo! Now I gotta ask before we go to our next section, has there been any famous ladies throughout time you know that we may know of that Beau may have you know, flirted with or sorta spent the night with are you- are you a man that kisses & tells Beau?

(14:56)

Beua: Well hm mm I don’t kiss & tell but if you ask Dorothy Dandridge she might kiss & tell-I’m just saying! I’m just saying!

Crystal: Ooo hoo hoo hoo!

Beau: That’s right!

Crystal: Well on that note we’re gonna go on to our next section which is; ‘True Love’.

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

Crystal: Now ‘True Love’ is a section that I dedicated to my guest so that they can tell me something that they have loved since birth and still love to this day, what is something that Beau has loved since the dawn of time and still loves so passionately today?

(15:29)

Beau: Whiskey.

Crystal: Whiskey!?

Beau: Gotta be whiskey.

Crystal: I gotta tell ya I’ve never tried whiskey.

Beau: You’ve never tried whiskey!?

Crystal: I have never tried whiskey and though I am 5 years sober I did drink for a while and yet I did not try whiskey, I-I never got into it.

Beau: Well I commend you on 5 years sober congratulations-

Crystal: Thank you very much.

Beau: -um yes and I mean to describe it to you it is like um; you’re sitting by a bonfire on a cold night where you can see your own breath and the flames are crackling, and the smoke’s coming up, you know that all of your clothes are going to stink of smoke the next day but you do not even care because you’re there in the glow with good friends and yeah, tha-that’s whiskey.

(16:14)

Crystal: Oh lovely, I always um sometimes play around- you know they have the barbecue sauce and you know they have different variations of whiskey that it can be infused in and I always enjoy them you know in a good burger so maybe one day - in another life - maybe at a time where I feel a bit fruity again I might try a bit of whiskey, I also think there’s a lot of glamour that is involved with holding a glass of whiskey.

Beau: Absolutely, it just completes an outfit but I would also say yeah for those of us who are sober or drink responsibly, barbecue sauce with whiskey is a good way to go, I would- yeah absolutely.

Crystal: I am down.

Beau: That sounds amazing.

Crystal: Now lets go to our next section which is; ‘Topic Of Choice’.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

(17:00)

Crystal: ‘Topic Of Choice’ is a time for you Beau to choose something for us to discuss that can be anything on this earth, that could be a song you’re recently listening to, a film you’ve recently watched or something about present day that you are analysing as Beau Jangles and you are trying to decipher yourself, anything at all from the dinner you had last night to the journey you took to be here today, let us know and let us talk about, can you think of something?

Beau: Well as an old-fashioned man who is introduced to modern delights, um you know some stuff is a bit too modern for my tastes but I found some real-good classic entertainment when I started watching Selling Sunset, have you seen it Crystal?

Crystal: I have not seen Selling Sunset but everyone seems to be watching it at the moment, me and trash television, trash-reality television it is an addiction that I am managing and I take it you know dose by dose, I’m currently on The Real Housewives-

(17:59)

Beau: Mmm.

Crystal: -and once that’s done I’m gonna move on over to sell myself to some sunset, what is it about Selling Sunset that tantalises Beau’s senses?

Beau: Well you know I had a little spell in the early noughties right, and I really got into MTV Cribs, right the Mariah-

Crystal: Oh yeah oh I could, oh I could see Beau Jangles doing a Cribs.

Beau: -oh yeah yeah, welcome here’s my drinks trolley, I actually have a drinks trolley it’s great, erm but it’s a very- imagine the best episodes of MTV’s Cribs coupled with Real Housewives err and you’ve got yourself Selling Sunset.

Crystal: Well I saw the erm- I was at my friend Cherry’s place and they were watching one of the penultimate episodes - well it could’ve been the last episode - where there was a wedding, and it just looked nuts!

Beau: I have not got to that yet so I!

Crystal: Well you get ready because it’s nuts.

Beau: I’m gan’ get ready, it’s just you know um I really think they need like a hot- you know they’ve got the owners of the brokerage who are these two kinda twins, and I don’t really trust twins cos I’m like; how do I know y’all don’t switch places? Ah how do I know you know? I could-

(19:08)

Crystal: We don’t!

Beau: Do you ever worry about if you were dating a twin and the other one might just ‘Parent Trap’ you and you have no idea, that shit keeps me up at night umm.

Crystal: I mean it could but there’s so many people out there that have those weird twin fantasies and you know some people it might be down, it might be their kinda thing but for me personally I would stay away.

• Beau laughs -

Beau: No offence to any twins out there I’m sure-

Crystal: No offence!

Beau: -that y’all are individually lovely I just don’t wanna date more than one of you at once which you know is shocking for me, a man of many tastes & talents.

Crystal: I feel like Beau would fall into that um awkward predicament very easily.

Beau: Yeah what am I like?! But err-

Crystal: What are you like?!

Beau: What am I like?! But err yeah I think they could have like a- like I think I would do good as a realtor on Selling Sunset, I think I could sell a lot of properties I’m just saying, I got the smooth talk.

(19:58)

Crystal: Oh you do, you do, now going from something we wanna talk to stuff we need to talk about and get out of our system, lets go to the next section which is; ‘Pet Peeves’.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

Crystal: ‘Pet Peeves’ is a time for you to talk about something that’s grinding you gears at the moment Beau, something that’s pissing you off or something that you just wish you could just take control of and go “no-no-no-no lets change this” What is something that is grinding Beau’s gears at this very moment?

(20:36)

Beau: Right well I’m an old-fashioned man and you know I came from a time when we were told men were men and women were women but even I can see that this country’s approach to not reforming the Gender Recognition Act is a travesty alright?

Crystal: Hear hear.

Beau: If me, a dude from the 1940’s can recognise that the recognition of Non Binary people was not listened to and you know the de-medicalisation of Trans identities is not listened to, that is-how can they say that 51% of people voting for Brexit is “democracy and we will follow it” but they can’t say that 80% of people that voted for changes to the Gender Recognition Act can be thrown out the window? I mean, every single day these Tories get more audacious you know, I would admire them if I didn’t hate them so much.

(21:24)

Crystal: Oh I feel you with that sentiment jesus, I mean it is just bonkers because I’m- we’re a part of this Queer community of London and we- I marched the Trans er Pride march not to long ago and it was so joyous-

Beau: Me too!

Crystal: Oh you were there as well amazing!

Beau: I was there, I was there.

Crystal: -It was such a moment and I mean walking through Piccadilly Circus, you know fighting our fight, raising our voices and seeing people stand, and watch, some people joining in and some people just getting their phones out and what-not, and there was a point when we were outside No.10 and there was just this power and I really did feel like we were apart of some kind of change and we are slowly but surely and we just gotta keep raising our voices, keep being there for our Trans, Non Binary brothers & sisters and however they would like to identify, and I think if Beau was in charge I think things would be a lot easier I would like to say.

(22:24)

Beau: I agree, I agree I mean it just makes sense to just people identify however they hell they know that they are, I’m not about to tell anybody else who they are unless I’m about to tell a woman that she’s beautiful.

Crystal: And ultimately; it’s none of anyone’s god damn business at the end of the day.

Beau: Exactly, exactly, mind your own.

Crystal: Mind your own! Now we’re going to slowly but surely move into the latter end of this interview with the next section which is called; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: ‘Somebody To Love’ is a time for Beau to tell me someone or something that they are loving at the moment, it could be multiple things, it could be one thing, it could be a person, an artist you know it could be a good whiskey, it could be a good cigar, you know Beau it could be anything, let us know what is something you or someone that you are loving at this very moment.

(23:24)

Beau: Ah.. I’m gonna- I’m gonna you know Beau is not normally a one woman man I have to tell you-

Crystal: Oh I don’t disagree.

Beau: I know y’all know, I know y’all see me all around y’all know how it goes.

• Crystal & Beau chuckle -

Beau: That’s right but err I gotta give a shoutout to my main girl Emanuelle, errr cos yeah you know thats someone that I’m definitely loving up on and she knows who she is-

Crystal: That’s a beautiful name.

Beau: It is beautiful! It feels very nice in my mouth and-

Crystal: OOOOO HOO HOO HOO!!!

• Beau laughs -

Crystal: If you could see my red-whole face right now Beau.

Beau: This is just a whiskey flush I don’t know what you mean.

Crystal: Ooh my goodness me- is there anything else that Beau is loving at the moment, lets say you know any art, any music, any entertainment, is there anything that you’ve seen or anything that you’ve come across that you are really enjoying at this very moment?

(24:25)

Beau: Yeah I would say… um I just keep listening to this new song by Disclosure with Sid & Kehlani, it’s like-

Crystal: Ooo.

Beau: -the Queer kinda collab of everybody’s dreams, it’s a song called Birthday and I think everybody should listen to it cos it’s just so exciting and it’s so nice to see two Queer Black women doing a duet about how they used to go out together and are now wondering about whether to call each other on their birthday which is like such a Queer woman drama am I right like? When is it right to be friends with my ex again you know? But it’s a really great song and as someone with a high-brow, you know amazing appreciation of fine music I must say that uh that-that’s right up there with Miles Davis for sure.

(25:20)

Crystal: Ooo that makes your foot tap real good, I remember seeing-

Beau: It does!

Crystal: -some of the art direction of so many artists in the music world really goes over people’s head and doesn’t get the credit that it deserves and Kehlani is one of those artists, they have some of the most amazing artwork for their music and they are just- you know when you just see an artist and you’re just like - it’s similar with Beau I’m not gonna lie! - you are- like you just think; you are so damn cool and it’s-its insane how the world hasn’t like grasped your entirety yet but you know thats what a journey is for, I’m sure they will but right now they’re chilling with Disclosure talking about you know birthdays and all that jazz and everything but Beau we are slowly but surely coming to the end of this interview; it has been so joyous to talk to you and reconnect with you especially after this six month period and we’re slowly but surely getting back into the swing - no pun intended - of things you know, but is there anything that you wish to plug at the moment Beau Jangles?

(26:23)

Beau: Um I would say if you fancy coming to Mxngrove you can still sign up, er we would love to have you, umm and it is run by my good buddy Madi who is a mental health social worker by day um, she looks very similar to- she/they, look very similar to me but um you know and people have never seen us in the same room at the same time but it’s just a coincidence-

Crystal: Oooh.

Beau: -um so Mxngrove, I mean Crystal y’all know we go Haunt Of Hoxton happening.

Crystal: Oh we got some Halloween spooks, you got some other Halloween spooks going on, what other shows are you apart of this holiday season?

(27:00)

Beau: I have got… what… just let me consult my very finely leather-bound calendar.

Crystal: Oh yes, a filofax I would say.

Beau: Mm yeah, you know it! I’ve got It’s Disney Bitch- can I say bitch?

Crystal: You can say whatever the fuck you want on this podcast.

Beau: Okay! I’ve been holding back damn um I’m on It’s Disney Bitch which is by Herr & Me and that is on the 7th of October- when I say Me I don’t mean me as in me Beau, I mean Me as-

Crystal: Oh the drag queen, Me the drag queen yes, formerly known as Meth.

Beau: Formerly known as Meth err and then cleaned up her act.

Crystal: Fabulous.

Beau: but not HERR act, HERR is-

Crystal: Oh it’s a, it’s a conundrum.

Beau: The drag queen Herr, yeah!

• Crystal & Beau chuckle -

Beau: And then I’m in Drag From A Distance on the 10th of October with Tiana Biscuit, great name.

Crystal: Awesome.

Beau: Haunt Of Hoxton, and Non Binary Cabaret on the 15th of October.

(27:58)

Crystal: Yesss!

Beau: It’s a good month!

Crystal: Oh it’s a good month to see a bit of Beau Jangles and I hope our listeners go out and give you some love, and you know hopefully not whilst Emanuelle is around…

• Beau laughs -

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: You don’t wanna disrupt that connection but Beau it is such a joy to know of you, to have worked with you and to have future you know endeavours with you and to see where you end up on this glorious path that you are on, you are such a talent, you are smooth, you are joyous, you are funny, you can clawback like no other that I’ve seen on the stage but with such charm, with such you know sense & sensibility, it is awesome to know of you and I just think that the future is damn fucking bright for our ole’ buddy pal Beau Jangles my love.

(28:49)

Beau: Aw Crystal you’re too kind and yeah thank you so much for having me on and you’re incredible, you’re beautiful, you’re a god damn lip-sync ASSASSIN-

Crystal: Cheers!

Beau: -and everybody needs to watch their edges cos they’re gonna get snatched.

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: Well thank you so much for joining me Beau and I hope you have a lovely evening my smooth criminal.

Beau: Thank you, you too Crystal I hope you settle down with a nice whiskey-flavoured barbecue sauce and just-

• Crystal laughs -

Beau: -get into it!

Crystal: I think I will, I think I will but take care my love and I’ll speak to you soon.

Beau: Speak to you soon!

Crystal: And that wraps another fabulous episode of What Are You Like?! With me Crystal Lubrikunt, thank you so so much to the absolute talent that is Beau Jangles for joining me on today’s episode, if you wish hit Beau up on Instagram it’s B-E-A-U-J-A-N-G-L-E-S-D-R-A-G, @BeauJanglesDrag on Instagram, and if you wish to hit me up it’s C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T, @CrystaLubrikunt on Instagram, now stay safe out there, much love to you and your loved ones, stay safe, stay fabulous and most importantly; stay the fuck camp, I’ll see you in the next one, buh bye!

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to fade into the background -

Episode Ends

View Details

Making hearts pound across London over the last two years Crystal is joined by the whiskey-sipping, all-singing, smooth operator that is Beau Jangles for an episode full of topics such as kissing & not telling, The Gender Recognition Act, Beau's new venture; Mxngrove which is an all-Black Queer, Trans & Intersex collective and all pieced together with a whole lot of charm & blushing (on Crystal's part) that would make even the toughest of folk twiddle their thumbs. 

Music by Kevin Macleod

Full transcript available at whatareyoulike.libsyn.com 

View Details

(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like… it could go one way or another but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea, wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing out there, just make sure you’re comfy, relaxed and ready for some fabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:37)

Crystal: U.K comedian, lover of Greggs, Ross Kemp, activist for her husband Gary - whose scheduled to be released from prison next week - and enemy of “that bitch” that lives across the street Posh Sue, I am honoured to be joined Holly Stars in today’s episode. From solo shows and cabarets up & down the United Kingdom, to social media hilarity we know Holly likes to keep us updated with her fabulous life but what keeps Holly going? Let us discover as we find out what Holly Stars is REALLY like…

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music fades in to the background -

(01:11)

Crystal: Hello Holly how are you doing my icon?

Holly Stars: Hello my darling I am alright thank you how are you?

Crystal: I’m good, it’s a lovely sunset evening here in England, (you know) how is it up north?

Holly: Hot, we’ve had 18 degrees.

Crystal: 18?!

Holly: Yeah! Oh we’ve been absolutely sweating like pigs up here.

Crystal: So Holly how does (er) an icon such as yourself, how have you been going about your days in lockdown?

Holly: Ah well in lockdown- much the same as usual really, not too much different um except that the shops been shut.

Crystal: So no Chippie tea.

Holly: No Chippie tea, so we was making chips at Wendy’s house.

(01:51)

Crystal: Who’s Wendy?

Holly: Wendy m’next door neighbour-but one.

Crystal: Oh so it’s not- it’s not Posh Sue, I thought Posh Sue was your neighbour…

Holly: She lives across the street that bitch- Sue’s across the street and Fat Julie next door, and next door-but one I’ve got Wendy whose my best mate and so me and Wendy and our friend Jackie we do Bums & Tums together every Tuesday and so we meet at Wendys house and cook our own chips because The Codfather is shut.

Crystal: D’ya know what; the spirit of community is strong and thriving up where Holly Stars is- well Holly I’ve gotta kick things off by asking you the penultimate question here on What Are Ya Like and that is; Holly Stars, what are you like?!

(02:25)

Holly: What am I like?! Dead nice!

Crystal: Are ya “dead nice” ?

Holly: Dead nice oh yeah!

Crystal: I think its time we found out what other people think of Holly Stars if you don’t mind…

Holly: Whose been talking about me now?

Crystal: Well we’re gonna get into it in our first section called; ‘7 Things’.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

Crystal: ‘7 Things’ Holly, is a time for a friend, a peer, a loved one, to get in touch with me and (basically) describe you in 7 words and we’ll go through each of those words and we’ll decipher them one by one, are you ready?

(03:03)

Holly: Yeah I’m ready who did you ask?

Crystal: I had the wonderful Quiches Lorraine help me!

Holly: Aw thats nice! Yeah I do like a little Quiches Lorraine.

Crystal: How did you meet Quiches Lorraine Holly?

Holly: Met Quiches Lorraine on the Instagram!

Crystal: On the Instagram?

Holly: Yeah I seen Quiches Lorraine pop up doing a some event in Bristol ages ago and I seen the lovely costumes and the lovely character and everything else like; that is the kind of performer that interests me and so I’ve been following her ever since.

Crystal: She’s a very beautiful lady isn’t she?

Holly: Very beautiful lad-, very posh, very sophisticated lady.

Crystal: Oh well she shops at Waitrose Holly that’s quite… hot to trot.

Holly: We- don- I- I don’t like to talk about that.

Crystal: Why not?

(03:43)

Holly: It’s at odds with my own personality so I have to pretend that-that bit of Quiches doesn’t exist.

Crystal: Oh okay, okay well where shall we say that Quiches shops then?

Holly: Morrisons.

Crystal: Morrsions.

Holly: It’s a nice mid-level.

Crystal: Mid-level, I-I’m partial to a bit of Morrisons, a bit of Aldi, you know, I’m proudly a Tesco girl.

Holly: Oh are you?

Crystal: Very proud to be a Tesco girl but what thing I have to ask Tesco is you know when you see ‘Tesco Extra’ what is extra about it?

Holly: It’s big.

Crystal: It’s big.

Holly: It’s big.

(04:15)

Crystal: Thank god I have you Holly because I would never have known that.

Holly: Usually it’s on the site of an old B&Q.

Crystal: Well you know what you have many talents and you have many skills and you’re really showcasing them today already but-

Holly: Oh yeah.

Crystal: We’re gonna get into the ‘7 Things’ by Quiches Lorraine about Holly Stars and the first word is; ‘Beautiful.’

Holly: Oh yes… that-that’s correct that isn’t it?

Crystal: So why do you think you’re so beautiful Holly? What-what, what is it about you?

Holly: I don’t think I’m beautiful Crystal, I know I am- everybody’s beautiful, everybody is beautiful.

Crystal: We love that, we love that message.

Holly: Thing is, you’ve just got to have the confidence to see it; you walk into a room and look at everybody and say “actually I am more beautiful than all of you” and when you’ve got that kind of confidence you can whatever you like, thats what, you can.

(05:02)

Crystal: You can! You can do whatever you like actually you’re totally- nail on the head you are- Second word that Quiches Lorraine has described Holly Stars with is; ‘Effervescent’.

Holly: Ooh! Like a multivitamin?

Crystal: Well I guess so yeah a multivitamin tho-that’s quite correct actually because you’ve got a bit of everything, all of that everything is good for someone surely?

Holly: Like a fizzy, fizzy isn’t it ‘effervescent’?

Crystal: Like a Berocca?

Holly: Yeah like a Berocca!

Crystal: Or an Alka Seltzer.

Holly: The texture of one.

Crystal: Hmmmm

Holly: Well I suppose it’s right cos I’m quite exciting to be around aren’t I Crystal?

Crystal: Very exciting to b- you never know what you’re gonna get.

Holly: Never know what ya gonna get and it’s exciting when you drink a Berocca cos you don’t know if you’re gonna scorch the inside of your nostrils or not… with the fizz.

(05:45)

Crystal: Very true, very-very true, I’m trying to think of the other (like) fizzy (you know um) drinkable powder-to-liquids substances but all I can think of is Alka Seltzer.

Holly: I don’t think I’ve ever had an Alka Seltzer.

Crystal: I can’t remember what they’re for, is it fo- is it for when you have the shits?

Holly: I don’t know, that’s not a problem I’ve ever encountered actually.

Crystal: Oh well you know what you’re very lucky, you’re a very blessed-blessed soul.

Holly: I’m a lady, I’m a lady!

Crystal: The third & forth words that Quiches Lorraine has described Holly Stars as or with is; ‘Party Rings’.

Holly: Oh yeah.

Crystal: Whats your favourite Party Ring colour?

(06:19)

Holly: Pink one.

Crystal: The pink one?

Holly: Pink one hands down, because you have to imagine while you’re eating the Party Rings what flavour they would be if they had a flavour and the yellow one would be lemon, the purple would be like a parma violet, the white one would be a peppermint flavour and the pink one would be a strawberry- and of those four flavours the strawberry’s the nicest.

Crystal: Strawberry is the nicest I’m gonna tell you that because those other three flavours I’m not sure I want in a biscuit.

Holly: No but if thats what you’re imagining when you’re eating the Party Ring then you know for sure that the Pink is the best one.

Crystal: Would you say that Party Rings are the best biscuits of all time?

(06:54)

Holly: Ooh yes, oh.

Crystal: Really?

Holly: Oh yes absolutely, they’re closely followed - if you’ve got the money for em’ - a Foxes Golden Crunch Cream.

Crystal: Oooh you are naughty.

Holly: They’re the second best, they’re the second best because they was in that film have you seen it? Honey I Shrunk The Kids-

Crystal: Oh yes!

Holly: And there was a giant Foxes Golden Crunch Cream in the garden.

Crystal: Oh my god you’re so correct yes!! The nostalgia is faaabulous!!

Holly: When I was a little girl what I wanted the most was to eat a giant one of them like in the film.

Crystal: I mean they could just serve it couldn’t they in a tub, that cream, and just get a giant biscuit.

Holly: That cream, just to put your whole hand in it-

Crystal: Yessss.

Holly: -like they did in the film and just eat it, it’d be the best ever wouldn’t it?

Crystal: You know what I used to do and I wish they still- well I can do it but (you know) I’m just waiting for (you know) a nice vegan alternative, but um is I used to get a Digestive biscuit and (you know) they’re really boring biscuits I find.

(07:52)

Holly: Yeah they are yeah.

Crystal: Very-very boring biscuits but I-

Holly: Some people eat them with cheese!

Crystal: With cheese!?

Holly: With cheese?! Yeah they eat it like it’s a cracker.

Crystal: Thats not very good is it?

Holly: Disgusting that.

Crystal: No I like to cover it- I like to dunk it in strawberry yogurt.

Holly: Oh no.

Crystal: Oh yes.

Holly: Oh Crystal that’s dirty-that.

Crystal: No it’s proper delicious have you ever tried it?

Holly: No I haven’t and I never will it sounds rotten.

Crystal: Can I tell you a huge biscuit regret I’ve had?

Holly: Yeah.

Crystal: When I was about 10 years young I dunked a Jaffa Cake in milk.

Holly: Oh big mistake that.

Crystal: I’ve never enjoyed a Jaffa Cake since.

Holly: It must’ve tasted disgusting.

Crystal: It was absolutely revolting, it was absolutely terrible you know what I mean?

Holly: What were you thinking? What were you thinking? It must’ve gone to- it must’ve just gone to mush instantly.

(08:41)

Crystal: It was revolting, what would you say - I know we found out that Party Rings are you favourite biscuit - what, if someone was to serve you up this said biscuit, you would be absolutely repulsed and insulted, what biscuit would it be?

Holly: Oh Rich Tea.

Crystal: Ah yeah they’re awful.

Holly: Rich Tea, I don’t understand how-whose buying them!?

Crystal: I don’t know!

Holly: Whose buying them!? They sell em’ in such quantities and it’s always Rich Tea biscuits.

Crystal: And it’s like when you were a kid, (like) when you were at school and they’d make you cover them in icing sugar that would still not make it good.

Holly: No, they really are just absolutely disgusting biscuits them.

(09:15)

Crystal: And it’s annoying cos they’re the same price as Chocolate Bourbons and they’re (like) fabulous.

Holly: Yeah! The same price as like- do you know which ones are nice, I like the (um) usually supermarket-owned brand shortcake with raisins in and sugar on the top.

Crystal: Ooh, oooh I’m starving.

Holly: In the shape of a little flower with curled edges they’re ever so tasty biscuits them.

Crystal: That sounds dead nice um it took me ages to realise that Penguins are simply chocolate covered Chocolate Bourbons.

Holly: Yeah they are, although I think that the um- I think that in a Penguin the creamy in the middle goes further to the edges than on a Bourbon.

Crystal: See I’m not really clued up on the science of the biscuit I think you could write a thesis on the biscuit.

Holly: Ooh yeah defi- yeah I probably could, I probably could do that yeah.

(10:02)

Crystal: Now let me look at the thi- oh my god Holly.

Holly: What?

Crystal: Someones vandalised my notes!

Holly: What!?

Crystal: It says “Chanel No.5 was here” and she’s finished off the words!

Holly: No!

Crystal: Yes!

Holly: Not that rotter!

Crystal: Do you know of a Chanel No.5 I don’t know of a Chanel No.5.

Holly: She’s that blonde one isn’t she, from Scotland?

Crystal: I don’t know- Chanel No.5 has finished off the seven words with-I’m not gonna lie to you Holly they’re not very nice.

Holly: Go on… Tell me.

(10:31)

Crystal: Um… Chanel No.5- may I remind you Holly, just to remind you of the loveliness of Quiches Lorraine; they have said ‘Beautiful’ ‘Effervescent’ & ‘Party Rings’ Chanel has finished it off with ‘Nasty Vile Cow’

Holly: Right… Well… I know what I’ll be doing with the leftover eggs that I’ve got in the fridge.

Crystal: Who is Chanel No.5?

Holly: I don’t know but when I find out who she is, I will absolutely egg every single one of her windows.

Crystal: Well you know what I think it’s time we move on to our next topic, I think- we’re gonna boost your mood a bit with this next section which is called; ‘True Love’.

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

(11:12)

Crystal: ‘True Love’ is a section that (basically) is time for you to tell me something that you’ve been in love with since you can remember that you still love just as much today, is there anything you can think of?

Holly: Yeah; talking to people

Crystal: Oh you like talking to people? Well thats good, thats handy.

Holly: Oh yeah talking to people is one of me’favourites.

Crystal: Whose one of the most favourite people you like talking to?

Holly: I like talking to you! We have nice FaceTimes.

Crystal: Oh thats very nice!

Holly: I love talking to Quiches, love talking to lots of people, and I think I’m one of the few people left that likes to ring people unawares, I just will pick up and call someone on the phone and usually these days you have to get through about 10 people because people don’t like it anymore.

(11:58)

Crystal: People get scared of confrontation don’t they?

Holly: Yeah they just don’t like to answer the phone, everyone wants to talk by text but it’s not as fun if you can’t hear the person chatting.

Crystal: Do you sometimes feel like you are a - sort of - ‘mafia’ like character so when you ring someone unannounced it feels like they may have done something wrong to upset you?

Holly: I think sometimes peoples are a little bit frightened of me.

Crystal: I mean the egg-threat with Chanel No.5, it had me quaking in my boots, I fear for Chanel No.5 I’m not gonna lie.

Holly: She was asking for it.

Crystal: She was dying for it absolutely. But you like talking to people! Well thats fabulous cos we’re on a podcast right now thats joyous but- you’ve noted some few people but as I’ve done my research and as we’ve had chats before you must love talking to your Gary.

Holly: Oh I do love talking to my Gary, we don’t get to talk too often these days, just whenever he’s got an extra phone card.

(12:50)

Crystal: What was it about Gary that made you both fall in love, head over heels before he had to leave (er) unfortunately to do his time in prison?

Holly: What was it about Gary? Well he’s very charming, he’s very charming, he’s very handsome, he’s got lovely tattoos; he’s got a little teardrop on his cheek and thats nice cos he tells me thats because he’s sensitive, a sensitive soul.

Crystal: Aw thats gorgeous that.

Holly: And on his left arm he’s got his beautiful portrait of Charlie Dimmock.

Crystal: Who’s Charlie Dimmock?

Holly: Charlie Dimmock from Ground Force!

• Crystal sniggers -

Crystal: From- OOH Ground Force! I used to love Ground Force!

Holly: Oh she’s beautiful Charlie.

Crystal: Oh with the frizzy curls.

Holly: With the curly hair!

Crystal: Absolutely- I used to dead excited when they’d fit a fountain in, when they would tell the people that they’re gonna put in a little pond or a fountain I would lose my shit.

(13:44)

Holly: Yeah when they put a water feature in that was a big moment that.

Crystal: Oh I can understand Charlie Dimmock absolutely.

Holly: He’s got a sleeve basically on his left arm and at the top there’s this portrait of Charlie Dimmock with the curly hair and the curls converge later on on the sleeve and turn into a bowl of tagliatelle.

Crystal: Tagliatelle!?

Holly: Yeah cos he likes that with a sauce.

Crystal: Like a mascarpone sauce?

Holly: Whats that? Bit a cheese?

Crystal: I don’t know, I don’t k- is it mascarpone sauce? Yeah mascarpone.

Holly: Like a cheese sauce on it?

Crystal: Yeah a bit of that, we love a bit of that, oh well talking is your true love well I hope you never stop talking Holly we love listening to you, we love watching you perform and hearing your stories but we’re gonna take a little break my love.

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet!Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(15:13)

Crystal: The next section my darling we are gonna be doing; ‘Topic Of Choice’.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

Crystal: ’Topic Of Choice’ is a time for you talk about whatever you wish to, and we’ll have a discussion about it, is there anything that comes to mind that you wish to discuss, anything at all?

Holly: Yeah, buffet.

Crystal: Buffy?

Holly: No, buffet.

Crystal: “Buffet” as in like; buffets?

Holly: Yeah.

Crystal: Oh I love a buffet.

Holly: I love of a buffet and it has been very disappointing since the corona virus that we haven’t had no buffets.

(15:54)

Crystal: I’ve gotta agree with you there Holly because I went to a Harvester last week and I love my Harvester, I really really do, and the salad bar you have to have someone serve it to you and only half of the salad bar is available.

Holly: See that is a disgrace, that is a disgrace.

Crystal: That is so upsetting.

Holly: But no I do love a buffet and I like um many different types of buffet, I like a birthday buffet, a wedding buffet and a funeral buffet and sometimes (like) a restaurant buffet like a Chinese or Indian.

Crystal: That sounds delicious- what do you find er makes a funeral buffet stand out?

Holly: Oh for a funeral buffet you must absolutely have egg sandwiches.

Crystal: Why do you think they choose egg sandwiches?

Holly: Well it’s traditional isn’t it for a funeral.

Crystal: Is it?

Holly: Yeah. I think it must be something to do with an egg being the start of life and so at the end of a life…

Crystal: You eat it.

• Crystal laughs -

Holly: You eat em’. I reckon that must be why they always be having egg sandwiches.

Crystal: I’m learning so much today jesus.

Holly: I’m very wise Crystal.

(16:56)

Crystal: You are very wise but I gotta tell you something to be positive about is I did go to a Toby Carvery recently, I am vegan and they have vegan options there but the entire buffet was just as usual, they do serve for you but they give you very gratuitous offerings.

Holly: Are they not as greedy as you would be filling your own plate up?

Crystal: Oh no they are very generous.

Holly: Oh good! Oh thats good.

Crystal: So I highly recommend Toby Carvery, Harvester’s maybe wait out.

Holly Whats your favourite item on a buffet?

Crystal: Ooh…. Olives.

Holly: NO!

Crystal: Yes!

Holly: No that’s a forbidden item!

Crystal: Why is it forbidden they have them at the Harvester!

Holly: Oh no… Crystal.

Crystal: Oh come on.

Holly: This is the first time I’ve ever felt disappointed in you.

Crystal: Oh well I love my olives, I love an olive, black olives, green olives-

Holly: I can’t-no I can’t eat an olive no.

(17:47)

Crystal: Ok shall I give you my second favourite.

Holly: Yeah.

Crystal: I love a pasta medley.

Holly: A pasta m- see? You’ve gone crazy now with these buffet-

• Crystal laughs -

Holly: -these are not, these are southerner buffet items that you’re talking about.

Crystal: Ok let me think ummm.

Holly: On a buffet, there’s dos & don’ts with arranging a buffet etiquette, if you’re not having a hot buffet, if you’re just having a buffet at a family event-

Crystal: Ohhhh.

Holly: -there shouldn’t be any slop food at all.

Crystal: Okay.

Holly: So no wet food like pasta, it all needs to be finger food and you can’t eat a pasta medley with your fingers.

Crystal: Okay, then I have a new answer.

Holly: Yeah go on.

Crystal: Freshly made, like proper nice salsa.

Holly: … that’s- well that’s bordering on a wet food.

• Crystal cackles -

Holly: So.

Crystal: Oh no.

(18:44)

Holly: Remind me that if you’re ever having a party you need me to do the buffet for you.

Crystal: Ok I’ve got one; cucumber sandwiches.

Holly: Yes!

Crystal: I love a cucumber sandwich.

Holly: Yeah thats a good choice that Crystal, do you like a cucumber sandwich with a cream cheese like the queen- I know you have to have a vegan one.

Crystal: No I just want a slice of cucumber and the butter and the bread, I’m very simple like that.

Holly: Very simple but thats nice, thats a good- thats an excellent choice.

Crystal: It’s like the snacks you use to have when you were (like) growing up, you used to have cucumber sandwiches, they’d be delicious, that and maybe some Pengunins, a proper Pink Wafer.

Holly: Oh yeah a Pink Wafers nice.

Crystal: Ooh I love it, I absolutely love it- well we’re gonna go on to our next section now which- I hope that you’re ready for - is called; ‘Pet Peeves’.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

(19:35)

Crystal: ‘Pet Peeves’ is a time for you to tell me whats grinding your gears at the moment Holly, it’s time for you to get it off your chest, vent about it in the podcast and take it away, go for it, let us know what is grinding your gears at the moment Holly Stars.

Holly: Well you mean aside from the nastiness that you’ve told me about Chanel No.5 today?

Crystal: Well once again I fear- I fear for her fate now.

Holly: She’s in…. She’s in… peril now. But aside from that; um whats grinding m’gears? Well! The-the bastard pig tories!

Crystal: The bastard pig tories!

Holly: Yes!

Crystal: What are we gonna do?

Holly: They’re-they’re whats grinding my gears at the moment they’re absolute rotters.

(20:18)

Crystal: You tend to post a lot on your social media of lovely portraits of awful tory people and you like to put the poo emoji all over them.

Holly: I do I put a poo emoji in their mouths yeah.

Crystal: Because why?

Holly: Because they talk a lot of shit.

- Crystal giggles -

Holly: Tha-that’s why! No I am frustrated with them and I do post a lot about it on my social media, I do post a lot about it because I do think if you’re living in er- if you’re living in a country where you’ve got the freedom and the technology to be able to say something about things that are wrong then you should say something about something that’s wrong.

Crystal: Which is what you with tories and what you do with sloppy buffet food.

Holly: Exactly, exactly.

Crystal: Is anything else grinding your gears at the moment Holly?

Holly: Oh erm… What else could be? Just it’s boring isn’t it with all the stuff being shut!

(21:19)

Crystal: What are you missing, what are you looking forward to?

Holly: I’m looking forward to starting me’cabaret again at Phoenix Arts Club.

Crystal: Ooh yes that’s fabulous, thats a fabulous show down at The Phoenix Arts Club in Soho you do a fabulous variety show and you’ve had many-many amazing guests, tell me who have you had and who would like to have in future that has yet to do it?

Holly: Ooh well thats a big question there’s loads of people I want, I’ve got a big list and now I can’t remember anyone of the top of me’head- it’s hard I find it difficult to… to… arrange the line-up’s for shows like that so that they’re balanced and because it’s really a comedy varsity show I need them to be super funny but then I also want them to be interesting, and diverse, and entertaining for the audience, but I’ve had some great people on it Cheddar Gorgeous came to do it, you’ve done it, you’ve done it the one time haven’t you and then you were gonna do a second one?

(22:17)

Crystal: And then lockdown came and slagged me off!

Holly: Yeah lockdown ruined it at the last minute.

Crystal: S’alright though.

Holly: Um I haven’t had- speaking of lockdowns ruining things - I wanted to have Herr The Queen and she was on m’next line up and um-

Crystal: She’s fabulous we love Herr The Queen.

Holly: And um and I also wanted to have Carrot.

Crystal: OH I love Carrot.

Holly: Carrot is such an amazing talent, just so good. And for me’Manchester one because I run the show in London and in Manchester usually - out of lockdown times - and um and I was supposed to have Juno Birch on the next Manchester one so I’m gutted, gutted!

Crystal: Oh my- this is not the first time Juno Birch has been mentioned on this podcast we love Juno Birch.

Holly: Doesn’t everybody love Juno Birch, I think she’s absolutely amazing.

Crystal: I feel like if someone doesn’t then they have a serious issue they need to resolve.

Holly: They’re a wrong’un.

Crystal: They are a wrong’un Holly! They are! We love and stan Juno Birch in this house absolutely-absolutely. Well my love we’re gonna go into our second to last section which is called; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

(23:31)

Crystal: ‘Somebody To Love’ is a time for you to talk about someone or something that is keeping you going at the moment, keeping you sane, keeping you going through life, keeping you feeling good or (you know) just makes you feel good in general! Whether it is a person, a thing, a movie, an album, a song, or something you like to eat or drink, let me know, let me know, anything that comes to mind?

Holly: Ooh yes so at the moment, whats keeping me going, what I’m doing every day is watching episodes of the television programme Criminal Minds.

Crystal: Criminal Minds, I don’t believe I’ve ever watched Criminal Minds.

Holly: Oh Crystal you are missing out it’s basically right- they’ve finished it now, it finished a few years ago um but there’s 14 series of it and each series has got 24 episodes, I don’t know how many that is but thats like 300 episodes of it.

Crystal: JEEESUS.

Holly: Oh and it’s absolute garbage but it’s really good.

Crystal: I was more of a Prime Suspect, Silent Witness watcher growing up.

Holly: Oh yeah I did like them- I like Silent Witness but I can- nowadays I don’t like it because it’s got that woman in it um Amelia Fox and she’s very good but the story is always that Amelia Fox ends up being the damsel in distress at the end and then the boxer guy comes to save her so I find it sexist but also I find ti um really-really too unrealistic (like) what is she doing? Why is she going to interview suspects when all she’s supposed to be doing is the autopsy’s? She is absolutely meddling, she’d be arrested for interfering in an investigation, she needs to back off.

(25:11)

Crystal: If you were to star in your own crime drama what would it be called?

Holly: Oh what would it be called? Oh well I liked that one- it was very short-lived with Debra Messing from Will & Grace, she was in one from America that only lasted half a season called: The Mysteries Of Laura and so I think I’d like to be in a northern english version called: The Mysteries Of Holly.

Crystal: Who would you cast as your righthand man or woman or person to be-

Holly: Oh Quiches Lorraine!

Crystal: Oh you and Quiches would be absolutely fabulous!

Holly: Oh me and Quiches solving crime around the north of England? Oh yeah.

Crystal: Do you think you’d bring peace to the country?

Holly: Oh we’d-we’d unite the nation yeah, we’d unite.

Crystal: What would you travel around in?

Holly: Travel around in… Oh just on the bus, just on the bus, I like a National Express.

Crystal: Oh do you I don’t- you know what I said this on a previous podcast I think that I’ve never done a Megabus or a National Express but I have been on a bus to Austria once that was 22 hours long.

Holly: Well thats a similar thing.

Crystal: Is it really?

(26:11)

Holly: Yeah they’re just a big coach.

Crystal: Well I don’t know-what for 22 hours?!

Holly: Yeah! Well normally it takes 22 hours to get round England but um-

Crystal: Where would you like to visit with Quiches Lorraine and see if you can solve their unsolvable crimes?

Holly: I’d like to retrace the steps of Hettie Wainthropp and visit-

Crystal: Whose Hettie Wainthropp?

Holly: Oh my god you’re too young you don’t know any of these olden days- Hettie Wainthropp do you remember Patricia Routledge who played Hyacinth Bouqet in um-

Crystal: Keeping Up Appearances.

Holly: Keeping Up Appearances- she had a programme in the 1990s called Hettie Wainthropp Investigates where she was an old lady who turned into private detective and she had as an assistant Dominic Monaghan who was in Lord Of The Rings and Lost, he was one of the hobbits.

Crystal: Ooh yes he was um Peregrin Took.

(27:08)

Holly: Yeah he was like 16 at the time and he was her assistant on the cases and it was dead good, ooh it was dead good.

Crystal: Is she still with us?

Holly: Yeah she’s still with us yeah.

Crystal: Why can’t we do Hettie & Holly?

• Holly gasps -

Holly: Thats it, thats it.

Crystal: Thats it, thats the ticket.

Holly: Thats the one, Quiches has been kicked off can’t believe that.

Crystal: If you were to have a love interest on the show, what bachelors would you like to put on a line-up throughout the series that you would have um little escapades with?

Holly: Ross Kemp.

Crystal: Ross Kemp.

Holly: Ooh Ross Kemp.

Crystal: What is it about Ross Kemp?

Holly: Oh well I like his bald head.

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: Yes?

Holly: I like a bald head and I like his, I like his body oh he’s dead sexy Ross Kemp yeah, stocky, he’s like stocky ain’t he?

(28:00)

Crystal: Ooh he’d be great in a crime drama with you wouldn’t he?

Holly: Wouldn’t he? Wouldn’t he? Oh we’d be dead good he’d be the muscle to my brains.

Crystal: He’d be like - in Ross Kemp voice - “Ello Holly”

Holly: Yeah. We’d be brains and brawn, maybe we’d called it Brains & Brawns, and I’d be the brains and he’d be the browns and together we’d solve cases and stop crimes.

Crystal: Absolutely and go after Chanel No.5.

Holly: Oh we’d get her, we’d absolutely get her.

Crystal: Oh would you get her good, get her good like Shania Twain style, is there anyone else that you would like to cast as a love interest on the show?

Holly: Oh well I am obsessed at the minute with the man from Criminal Minds Matthew Grey-Goobler.

Crystal: That is a name and a half Matthew Grey-Goobler.

Holly: Ooh yeah but he’s such a dish.

Crystal: Oh is he a dish? What kinda dish is he?

Holly: What?

Crystal: Is he kind of- is he a like a chicken pie or is he a toad in the hole?

(28:45)

Holly: Well I’m hoping he’s a toad in the hole.

• Crystal laughs -

Holly: He’s dreamy, he’s dreamy that one. Who else… George Clooney’s dishy, he’s a-

Crystal: I don’t see the interest.

Holly: No you must see the interest.

Crystal: No absolutely not my- I tell you what for me it’s Enrique Iglesias.

Holly: Enrique Iglesias ah right!

Crystal: I can be your hero baby yes.

Holly: D’ya know what he’s got nice eyes hasn’t he?

Crystal: Yeah- I was a bit upset that he’s got his mole removed I thought that was a bit of a...

Holly: It was a defining feature!

Crystal: It was, and it was like (you know) the westernised materialistic side of the world encouraged or made him feel like he didn’t- or that he should get rid of it-

Holly: It suited him it was nice that!

Crystal: I know! People- you should love people warts n’ all you know what I mean?

Holly: Do you know who else is a proper dish?

Crystal: Who?

(29:39)

Holly: Lee Latchford-Evans.

Crystal: Oh absolutely!

Holly: Oh goodness me!

Crystal: When he would come walking towards the screen in that 5,6,7,8 video rapping all them words phwoar!

Holly: Oh he absolutely a dish and in that new video of what they’ve done he’s even- they’ve even let him sing now!

Crystal: I know they’re letting him sing now which is joyous!

Holly: Yeah!

Crystal: I didn’t know who it was at first I was like “Whos this!?” I thought it was Lisa Scott Lee on an off day.

Holly: Couldn’t believe it when he opened his mouth and a voice came out I didn’t think he could.

Crystal: Oh good for him, I think I watched the dvd of Steps live and he got his shirt off and I really couldn’t control myself.

Holly: Oh he’s very nice, do you know they’re looking amazing aren’t they in that new video!

Crystal: Yeah they all look really good, I was thinking about this because the song came out and I looked at the cover- and I remember when they first came back and they did a This Morning show, I can’t remember which one is was, and they were all in (like) primary and secondary colour outfits and they looked absolutely horrendous but now it seems like- do you know what I feel like they’ve got a gay person of any identity on that team to really show them whats what in terms of threads because you know what I feel like they fell into the Bang London office and came out wearing absolute golden garments, they look fabulous now.

(30:57)

Holly: Yeah they’re proper style icons now- Claire has this dress on, I can’t remember if it was in this new video or in the one before it was like a red cape and the top half-the top part of it was just like a leather collar with like a mesh cape thing coming off the top it was pointing in two triangles- oh it’s dead good.

Crystal: Its camp as tits, one thing I like to do with Claire, is on a night out you put on a Steps medley and every time Claire does an ad-lib you take a shot.

Holly: Oh I bet you must be absolutely pissed as a fart-

Crystal: Oh you get Tequila Rose’d in five seconds dear.

Holly: Watching it on the Lisa- on the Lisa solo bits, when Lisa’s got a little dance routine I like just to image that her Mum is behind the camera doing the moves for her,

• Crystal sniggers -

Crystal: She does seem like that kinda woman I mean I remember that Lisa (er) Totally Lisa Scott Lee show and she saying (um) “I’m B list on Capital”

Holly: Oh she’s a good one that one, I like her.

Crystal: Oh she just wants to (you know) she’s just wants to perform, she just wants to have a good time.

Holly: I’m glad they made friends and come back, it was worth it wasn’t it, they were nice.

(32:04)

• Faint dog barking can be heard -

Crystal: Oh do you hear my dog?

Holly: Oh whats she shouting for?

Crystal: She knows I’m talking to you, she’s very jealous.

Holly: Oh she should be.

Crystal: Absolutely- you’ve got a new dog in your life haven’t you Holly?

Holly: No.

Crystal: Have you not?

Holly: I had a dog, I had a dog couple years ago called Bitchy but she was dead nasty and I tried to paint her fingernails and she bit me so I gave her back.

Crystal: Oh no thats awful; well as you are one of the most beautiful women int he world I would say Holly.

Holly: Yeah.

Crystal: Do you have any beauty secrets or beauty tips that you could share with our listeners before we wrap this episode up?

Holly: Confidence is the number one.

Crystal: Confidence is the number one, do you have any products cos I know you’ve got a lot of make up on all the time and you know you look great-

(32:50)

Holly: No I’m more of a natural beauty actually.

Crystal: Oh are you?

Holly: Yeah.

Crystal: I’ve got your-your picture on the prompter (of-) in front of me and-

Holly: Yeah…

Crystal: -and you’ve got a lot of make up on Holly…

Holly: No I don’t think so just a little dab of Nivea Blue.

Crystal: Oh is that what it is!?

Holly: Yeah, yeah.

Crystal: It does all that?!

Holly: Yeah, yeah it does.

Crystal: Well there we go Nivea Blue.

Holly: But if I was to wear something I do like- there’s a Manchester brand of a bio-glitters called Make Up Or Break Up and they’re dead good, they come in little pots, they’re dead nice.

Crystal: Oh you like a little pot don’t you.

Holly: I do like a little pot of something.

Crystal: You like little- you’re very erm you love little trinkets and things don’t you, you’ve got those fabulous shoes that you wear.

Holly: Yeah m’shoe collection thats where all my money goes, into my shoe collection, the shoes.

(33:40)

Crystal: Is it really- is there gonna be a vault in future, is there gonna be a Holly Stars Museum Vault of all of your shows?

Holly: I’m thinking probably they’ll be an exhibition at the V&A.

Crystal: How much would it be to get in or would it be invite only?

Holly: Oh very expensive.

Crystal: Very expensive.

Holly: Very exclusive.

Crystal: Now lets say your museum had a cafe; what would be the Holly- the ultimate Holly Stars 3-course meal?

Holly: Ooh… starters is tricky, starters I don’t know I’m never fussed about a starter.

Crystal: But what about finger food you could have (like) a finger food buffet starter couldn’t you

Holly: Oh a buffet! Yeah if it were buffet starter I’d have a little- for a starter on a buffet I’d like to have a little cheese & onion roll, I’d like to have a little sandwich, and a little serving of crisps.

Crystal: Ooh yes cos then you can make a little crisp sandwich.

Holly: Yes thats for me’starter- for pudding I like an Artic Roll or a Swiss Roll but not with fresh cream.

Crystal: Oh god really?

Holly: A Swiss Roll but not with fresh cream, I like it to be with the dry buttercream.

(34:38)

Crystal: Lovely and what about the shining glory, what about the main course?

Holly: Main course… what do I like? I like a pie and chips.

Crystal: I love a pie, I love chips.

Holly: And I like mushy peas.

Crystal: Is there anyone that you’ve invited for dinner and has wronged you and you’ll never invite them over for dinner again?

Holly: Anyone for dinner what wronged me?

Crystal: Yeah I feel like there’s sometimes when you have dinner guests and they you know they’re not the ones.

Holly: No, no people don’t normally cross the threshold unless they’re fully vetted.

• Crystal laughs -

Holly: They’re only coming in if I know them well enough.

Crystal: I remember that one time- I think one of the first instances of coming across Holly Stars was the video of you talking about how you went for dinner with Crayola and they really upset you-

(35:24)

Holly: Yeah they bought me Sushi!

Crystal: Whats wrong about sushi?

Holly: RAW FISH.

Crystal: Raw fish!?

Holly: Raw fish, not having it, not eating a raw fish.

Crystal: Cos you weren’t feeling well were you?

Holly: Well no and the truth is I don’t even like a cooked fish, I don’t eat fish at all, vegetarian me.

Crystal: Oh good for you, good for you, well from a vegan thats awesome but um I also remember um is Percy the kid in the neighbourhood still around after your altercation with them?

Holly: Percy is Posh Sue’s grandson.

Crystal: Oooh.

Holly: He don’t play on the street no more not after I told him.

Crystal: What did you tell him again?

Holly: That he’s a little bastard.

Crystal: You know what-

Holly: For riding his scooter, he had one of them electronic scooters and they’re forbidden on a public highway.

Crystal: -well you know what all heroes don’t always wear capes Holly.

Holly: No so I was protecting the integrity of our community… Crystal can I just say cos I can see you on the video and I don’t know if your listeners will be able to see it but there is a beautiful light shining in like-

Crystal: Yeah it’s a sunset.

Holly: -it’s a sunset light shining in and you look ever so beautiful.

Crystal: Aw cheers babes!

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: Well we’re gonna start wrapping up this episode my darling thank you so much for coming on I think you’re absolutely hysterical, you’re a joy to be around and a joy to know, and a joy to watch on stage, is there any thing that you wish to plug at the moment?

(36:41)

Holly: Anything to plug? No, no I’ve got no shows coming and nothing but if people want to follow they can follow me on Instagram, my Instagram is-well all my social medias is @HollyWStars and I’m on the Twitter, the Facebook and the Instagram and the YouTube and I post videos about whats been happening with Posh Sue, and Fat Julie, whats been going on in the street um so if people want to see me’updates then they can join me on there.

Crystal: I have to ask you what does the W stand for?

Holly: Oh that’s me’married name; Wood.

Crystal: No way.

Holly: That’s Gary’s surname.

Crystal: So if you dropped the Stars, you would be called Holly Wood.

Holly: That’s correct yeah, Holly Wood.

Crystal: Oh I’m gonna wrap this episode up with that bombshell jesus thank you so much for coming on the podcast Holly Stars you’re an icon of our time I love seeing you, I love spending time with you, you’re hysterical, I’m gonna- I might be giving Chanel No.5 the heads up because I’m genuinely terrified for her but thank you so much for coming on the podcast and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day my darling.

(37:45)

Holly: Thank you for having me my darling, speak to you soon!

Crystal: Bye!

Holly: Take care, bye! How do I turn this… How do I turn this bastard zoom off, fucking hell.

Crystal: And that was another episode of What Are You Like!? With me Crystal Lubrikunt, thank you so-so much to the absolute fabulous, hysterical diva that is Holly Stars for joining me on today’s episode. If you wish to follow Holly that’s @HollyWStars on Instagram, and you can give her a Google and find her on other socials and when she’ll be back at it giving us those absolute joyous shows she does, if you wanna hit me up its @CrystaLubrikunt on Instagram thats C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T, but for now stay camp, stay fabulous and you know what? Fuck the tories, have a good one, mwah.

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to fade into the background -

Episode Ends

View Details

Cult favourite UK comedian, lover of Greggs, Ross Kemp and activist for her husband Gary - who is scheduled to be released from prison next week - Holly Stars joins Crystal as they discuss the very important matters in life such as being beautiful, buffet etiquette, the best biscuits, the dishiest men, and the rotters of the world including the bastard pig-tories. This is one cackle of an episode.

Music by Kevin Macleod

Full transcript available at whatareyoulike.libsyn.com

View Details

The innovative, internationally celebrated Coco DeVille joins her cabaret daughter Crystal Lubrikunt for a lovefest of an episode as they discuss sparking joy, breaking boundary's in the burlesque world, The Harlem Renaissance, battling ignorance and the power within chosen families. The award-winning diva is ready to share all of them good vibrations so listen up & enjoy. 

Music by Kevin Macleod 

Full transcript available at whatareyoulike.libsyn.com

View Details

(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like… it could go one way or another but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea, wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing out there, just make sure you’re comfortable, relaxed and ready for some fabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:36)

Crystal: International, award-winning, industry favourite, and cabaret mother of me, Crystal Lubrikunt; I am thrilled to have the incomparable Coco DeVille on as my guest on today’s episode. For over a decade Coco has ruled the cabaret scene, the festival circuit and the globe with their joyous energy, unique burlesque concepts and overall iconic performances, but what ruffles Ms DeVille’s feathers? What is the key to Coco’s heart? Let us see as we discover what they are really like…

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(01:17)

Crystal: Hello Coco how are you my darling, darling Coco?

• Coco chuckles -

Coco DeVille: I am very well thank you, very, very well indeed.

Crystal: Where are you coming from today?

Coco: So I’m coming live (er) from my studio in Manchester.

• Crystal puts on a Mancunian accent -

Crystal: In Manchester!

• Coco joins as she laughs -

Coco: Up’north!

• Both drop accents -

Coco: (That’s how-) That’s how I live now.

Crystal: What listeners do not know - well some of them might know - is that Coco DeVille is my cabaret mother-

• Coco joyously giggles -

Crystal: - I would have not known how to do many-many things, and how to navigate the show business life if it wasn’t for the award-winning Coco DeVille-

Coco: Awwww

(01:53)

Crystal: -And Coco DeVille is partly responsible for the absolute monster that you listen & see today-

• Coco laughs -

Crystal -so Coco how do you feel being responsible for this absolute MESS?

Coco: Well I take a lot of pride and it’s an honour really, it’s just that joy (like) when I (you know) first see you perform I was just like: * gasp * “So much talent! Ah my goodness I must-I must (you know) share my energy” And it was such a joy that you wanted to (you know,) listen, that’s the thing and then it’s all been beautiful from there.

(02:29)

Crystal: It is, it was and it will always be my absolute pleasure to be connected with you spiritually, (um) and in show business, it is just a joy to know you, to be around you-

Coco: Awww

Crystal: -whenever we would meet at Wetherspoons in Brighton we would just have the loveliest time, I’ve balled my eyes out in front of you-

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: - I have laughed and cackled in front of you and it’s just such a joy, but life takes us in different directions you’re all the way up in Manchester how are you doing in Manchester is everything okay?

(03:01)

Coco: Yeah! It’s absolutely fantastic, (like) the performance community in Manchester (is just-) has been so warm and welcoming and it’s just an honour to be part of it, a new scene that is up here it’s just everything is really thriving and it’s just wonderful to inject my energy and it’s been welcomed, and yeah it’s just been an absolute joy.

Crystal: So over the 14 years in the industry, over the years of your life as a human being, I have one question for you just to simply answer in any way shape or form that you wish to, and that is; what are you like Coco DeVille? What are you like?

(03:38)

Coco: What am I like? What am I like?!

Crystal: What are you like?

Coco: I just- I just like… I like making people smile really, I like (er)… yeah! It’s-it’s such an amazing feeling as a performer (like) I think it’s like our responsibility to (kind of) bring our little bubbles of entertainment of fun, and fabulous, quirky and share stories and stuff with the audience and I think (like) it’s just, it’s just a joy that this is my job-

• Coco chuckles -

Coco: - to (kind of) bring a lovely, happy energy into people’s lives and I just can’t imagine doing anything else really!

• Coco continues to chuckle -

(04:18)

Crystal: That is joyous, well we’re gonna go straight into our first section Coco and it is called; ‘7 Things’.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

Crystal: Now ‘7 Things’ is about- basically- a time to decipher all the things that other people think about you and one of those people that I have summoned to help me out with this is the - also award-winning - Dave The Bear-

• Coco cheers -

Crystal: - from down in Brighton, Dave The Bear has come up with seven words that they like to describe Coco DeVille and we’re gonna go one-by-one and try and decipher why Dave The Bear has used these words.

(05:02)

Coco: Okay!

Crystal: But are you ready for ‘7 Things’ Coco?

Coco: Okay I’m ready bring it on okay.

Crystal: The first word that Dave The Bear has described Coco DeVille as is; ‘Joy.’

Coco: Awwww!

Crystal: Why do you think Dave The Bear has used the word ‘Joy’ ?

Coco: I think it’s because I-I’m the kind of person that (er-), I just don’t take myself too seriously, (um) and I don’t take my life too seriousl- well I’ve- there’s points you know, of my life that you have to take seriously but I think (you know) I’ve just always been brought up with the mentality that you only get one life, (you know) you might as well just make the most of it and just find happiness in the most random moments, and when you (kind of) have that as your constant (um) you’re just kinda- that’s how you are and that energy (kind of) rubs off on anyone that’s around you and I think that’s (you know- kind of-) a thing (like), I like to try and make myself happy and so it kind of bounces around anyone that’s around me I guess.

(06:05)

Crystal: I’ll never forget (when-) seeing you put together and also debut your ‘Geek Chic’ burlesque routine-

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: -and I remember way back when I used to try- I had a bit of a knack for photography and I used to photograph some performers and every performer had their own little unique (er) fashion sense, and then I get Coco DeVille to come round to my house, and out comes this g-string unitard-

Coco: The mankini!

Crystal: The man-Oh!

Coco: The lime green mankini!

Crystal: The mankini! And is it still with us? It’s now stoned right? It’s now elevated.

(06:41)

Coco: Yeah that’s the thing; it was like… I literally created that act as a birthday present to one of my friends, a woman called Rebecca Drury whose still based in Brighton (um-), and she was one of my first friends (like) in the performance realm when I moved there which was absolutely great and she used to always have these parties that were (like) mixed with us performers and (you know) I think it was her birthday and (it was just like-) she’d ask certain people; “Instead of giving me a present, just do a little show” and it’s just like “Ok cool” Ummm and the theme was ‘Sexy And You Know It’

• Coco chuckles -

(07:18)

Coco: -and I think one of the big things that everyone always said to me was “Oh Coco your figure is always amazing you could wear aaaanything and still look hot!” And (it was just like you know) whats the most ridiculous thing that I could wear and-and just see what people’s responses would be? And then - yeah - then the mankini came to my mind and then everything just (kind of) spiralled from there and I just remember performing it and that party and everyone was in hysterics and I was like “Oh this is just really fun” and (er) yeah then I brought it into the burlesque realm and it brought up so much silly fun energy and it just (kind of) broke down the boundaries that (you know) “burlesque has to be very serious” and no it can be whatever you want it to be.

(08:07)

Crystal: The second word that Dave The Bear has used to describe Coco DeVille is; ‘Eclectic’.

Coco: That’s pretty-pretty cool (like) my (er) tagline is; Coco Deville: The Cabaret Chameleon, ha ha haa (Um) I think it’s because (like) as a performer, as an artist I get inspiration from everywhere, (you know), and I think (like you know) when you’re an artist and your brain’s just going all the time it’s amazing how different genres of music or different clothing, or different themes & cultures can just inspire (er) this wonderful world within you and I like to translate that into- into my work and onto the stage, and I think as well (like) I like creating work (um) and bringing it to audiences where they might not necessarily have seen it themselves, or they might not be aware of certain (um) levels, like when I (you know-er) remember creating my Hip Hop Bunny act and I just really loved the idea of bringing hip hop on to- into a cabaret environment and it all works you know? (Um-) And it’s just-it’s great to (kind of) keep mixing around with genres and stuff because it’s exciting for the audience, it’s exciting for a performer as well (like,) to keep it, to just keep it fresh!

(09:29)

Crystal: It’s so amazing to look at your repotoire and look at your numbers and each number is so extremely different to the other; from your Golden Brown to Voodoo Queen, to The Hip Hip Bunny to Geek Chic and the many more you have under your shoulders you are a very eclectic person and I also think you’re extremely innovative as well with your work-

Coco: Thank you.

Crystal: -you’re very hands-on aren’t you, you like to create a lot of parts of your shows.

(09:57)

Coco: Yeah definitely- (like) I know (like), I create a lot of my costumes and concepts and things like that, originally it’s because of money you know? But as time has gotten on (you know-like) I’ve enjoyed collaborating with costume designers like (um) there’s a designer called Chrissy Wild who I collaborated with my Gogo Uhura act because I was like “I really want a Star Trek uniform!”

Crystal: Yessss!

(10:31)

Coco: But I know I had to do it justice, I needed to get another mind into this, (um and yeah) I really enjoy having that avenue and (like) now I’m based in Manchester and there’s people like Miss Blair who’s an amazing performer herself but she also does (like) wigs and things like that so (It’s just like-) I love the fact that I’ve got to this point now that whenever I have an idea, I have got (like) the avenue of other performers and other creatives that I can turn to-to help make these ideas a reality, now its just like “ok what am I gonna be today?!”

• Coco chuckles -

(11:11)

Crystal: Yesss!

Coco: “How we gonna make this happen? How am I gonna bring it out there?” It’s just a joy to (kind of like-) literally have no obstacles on my imagination now it’s a great position to be in.

Crystal: Do you find that the best ideas come from a lot of planning or the best ideas come from impulsive sparks?

Coco: (um) It’s impulse, I think (like) for me it’s always been an impulse thing for me, (like) my strongest acts have just been an idea, (um) because when you have something that (you know) you hear a piece of music or you come across a fabric or a bit of costume that just sparks (you know like)- sparks joy! Within you! (it just) It brings up this lovely happy level within you and that happiness translates on stage and then when the audience watches you their seeing that joy & happiness and they’re sharing that with you and I think thats-thats something that is really-really precious that you can only really get in cabaret.

(12:19)

Crystal: Now the third word Dave The Bear has used to describe Coco DeVille is; ‘Unavoidable’.

Coco: Ha! Okay!

Crystal: What makes you so unavoidable?

Coco: I think (er) 1. I’ve been around for a long time thats the thing, I’ve been there, I’ve been there, I’ve been there, I’ve been around- I think because my work is quite eclectic I like to just get involved with different scenes, and different circuits (you know) like when I originally told people “Oh I’m a burlesque performer” Already you think of (you know) jazzy smooth, cabaret venues which is great, which is cool but I also really love performing with festivals, I love performing in any type of big club nights and stuff, like anytime that there are people wanting to have a good time that is (like) my perfect environment to perform so I just wanna get my fingers in all of the pies so within that I think my face is around all over the place so! I’m around!

• Coco chuckles -

(13:23)

Crystal: What would you say was the most unique place you’ve performed? What was the most interesting addition to the performance resume?

Coco: It’s actually really hard to (like) pinpoint? Cos over the years there’s just been so many bits and pieces but I think one of the most- Okay! I remember performing for someones 50th birthday party, and it was essentially in their living room and I was just like; this is really surreal because there’s no fancy lighting, there’s no- they’re just pressing play on a Hi-Fi system, I felt (like) proper like Strippergram vibes you know but (it just was like) everyones having a lovely time, I felt so awkward because everyone was just standing around-

• Crystal sniggers -

Coco: - just like watching me!

Crystal: It sounds so weird!

Coco: I was just having a jolly time just going whip woo! I could see their faces, there was nowhere to hide, but I’m gonna take my glove off and it’s gonna end up on the corner of that bit of sofa but you know what? I left it, I left that whole situation like- I was treated really-really well, everyone was really-really respectful, it was just so daunting and the lady whose birthday it was she just had a lovely time so it just meant (like) any kind of feeling I had like “what the hell am I doing?” It (kind of) all just went out the window cos at the end of it she was all “Ooh I just loved it! It was great I’m just so happy thank you for coming aw!” And I was just like; “Right you know what? It doesn’t really matter where I perform as long as people are digging it. Then everything’s a winner.”

(15:20)

Crystal: The fourth word that Dave The Bear has described Coco with is; ‘Vivacious’.

Coco: Hmmm, I’ve always been known as being really extra, (like) ever since I was a kid, “ooh you know she’s so extra oh my god” It’s just that thing (you know) when you find something you like and it makes you happy, why is it (like) more acceptable to (kind of like) play it down? (Like) “Yeah this is kinda cool but meh” It’s like “No I’m the opposite” I’m like; if I’m getting enjoyment out of this? I’m gonna show it through (like) every part of my body (um yeah), I know that I do (like) squeal and I clap my hands a lot and all that kind of stuff but I think it’s good to (kind of) just share that enjoyment of things-

• Coco chuckles -

Coco: (Um) yeah!

(16:15)

Crystal: I am totally with you when you- we have emotions and we have an emotional language between humans for a reason and we need to be encouraging it more-so than ever to be emotional, to be vibrant-

Coco: Yeah

Crystal: -be unapologetically ourselves and you’re such a pure example of that and it’s just- it’s so joyous and it’s (um) infectious as well we love-

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: - what we love and I wanna hark back to when you were at university, i remember when you would tell me about your times at university, you were at (like) Falmouth was it?

(16:45)

Coco: Dartington, (er)

Crystal: Dartington!

Coco: Yeah, so basically (er)- to put into context - Dartington was an internationally-renowned (er sort of) university that specialised in contemporary performance art so like-from theatre, dance, writing (um), choreography, film and everything like that and it was just like a little bubble-

• Coco chuckles -

Coco: -there was about 600 of us, (um) and we’re on a hill in the middle of nowhere so it’s like in Totnes so it’s like in-between Exeter and Plymouth, and stuff like that- and that whole experience (like), I was a proper city girl you know Brummie born & bred and I got accepted at this crazy arts university and it just blew my mind on (like) how to create basically, (like) how to get an idea from your brain and (like) learning the tools and the mechanics to get it out there on stage, so whether it’s (like) workshopping or finding text and everything like that and I think that experience and (er um) that joy was translated into my cabaret work and I remember when I went to university and I got really fascinated with gender politics within- on the- on the stage, I got into (like) burlesque, and drag, (like) from a very academic level and this is way before it became trendy (um) and I remember getting a lot of stick at university actually (um like): “How can you be a feminist performer and you’re wanting to (you know) be naked or use nudity & stuff on stage?” But (like) I saw nudity and female sexuality but it was always done in a very (er) repressive way, or rejecting (er) female sexuality (sort of) level and that just really (kind of) set of an internal conflict within me and I was just like; “No (like) surely (you know) it’s good to create work thats quite personal to you and embracing something that you are- (um you know) using your body as a canvas rather than rejecting certain elements of your identity and all of that jazz.

(19:12)

Crystal: It’s amazing when we refer back to our university experience- we share something quite similar there because at my university drag wasn’t - on my course of performance & visual art - drag wasn’t considered quite a well-esteemed art from-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -and I was challenged by professors who told me that it wasn’t basically, it felt like they were repressing it but I just got that repression and turned it into (you know) art & creativity-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -and thank god I did, and thank god that YOU did because I think that birthed what- well I think when you become a cabaret (er) performer whether it be in drag or in burlesque we both have our fingers in a lot of pies in different circuits-

Coco: Mmhm.

(19:52)

Crystal: - you can’t plan, you don’t know where you’re gonna end up and you don’t know what you’re gonna be doing in (like) two-three years creatively because you could be doing one style and then you’d be jumping to the next whatever tickles our fancy, it’s like we’re magpies; we just see something sparkly in our head and go “you know what i’m gonna do that now” or (you know) combine that with our feelings and our motivations and I find that when anyone challenges me I wanna prove them wrong and I think thats what came from-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -our university experiences, especially as performers and I think a lot of performers have similar experiences, especially in the scene, especially within the time that we were studying. Back to your eclectic repertoire; (it’s- you’ve just-) anything that you’ve felt has been something that maybe you can’t do or shouldn’t do, or maybe something that hasn’t been done and you’re thinking “I can’t really- no one can make that into burlesque” and you’re like “Watch me do Star Trek on this stage right this second!”

• Coco laughs -

(20:50)

Crystal: It’s amazing that performers like yourself and when I think of other performers that are similar I think of Lilly Snatchdragon challenges those (you know-) those themes and those codes & conventions- Lolo Brow does that as well and it’s just so awesome to have these incredibly amazing but also strong mother-fucking women that dominate the burlesque & cabaret scene it’s so awesome, which brings me to-

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: -this next word!

Coco: Oh my goodness the fact that it’s making you laugh!

Crystal: -and I’m sure it is within really good intention, but for some reason when I look at this word I re- I go back how many years - this is gonna be scary - (um) 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19,20- eight years!

Coco: Oh my goodness!

Crystal: When we were at Playgroup Festival in the middle of a field and you were on some (like) child-stilts pretending to be a dinosaur.

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: (um-) But the word that Dave- the 1, 2, - I’m losing my count - 1, 2, 3- the fifth word that Dave The Bear has described Coco DeVille is; ‘Chaos’.

• Coco laughs -

(21:51)

Coco: Oooh okay, (um) yeah! (er-I-I-) I can feel the vibe of that- I think it’s just cos I can be quite spontaneous sometimes (it’s like-) if something (kind of) sparks my interest or I’m seeing something I’m like “Ooh I wanna go and do that!” and then “You’re lovely people you’re coming with me! This is the thing we’re doing now.” (Um) And (you know like) at the end of a show for example and everything got that post-show glow and (it’s like) no ones got any plans afterwards so it’s like “Right! Lets all go out somewhere and lets see what the evening has for us and lets just do it! Lets just go lets just do it lets just ride that wave.” And yes! On that level it’s like sometimes (like) it’s just good to (kind of) roll with the moment and just go with it because the moment you kinda start thinking about things and I’m the kinda person that I - also - over think (um) and I overpack and I over-prepare and I over-plan but then on the flip side I’m just like; “Right lets just see what happens!” Thats how (like) adventures are created and I like adventures, everyone does.

• Coco giggles -

(23:18)

Crystal: (Um) This next word makes me think - which I-I personally don’t have any memories of you being so but maybe because of your time at Proud with Dave The Bear this word may come into play because your adventures may happen after the show but they may happen before the show with this word, which is the second-last word of Dave The Bear’s 7 Things About Coco DeVille which is; ‘Late’.

(23:40)

• Coco & Crystal laugh -

Coco: Okay right, (um) I’ve forgotten what the word is- there’s a word which (er) I might look at Google in a minute (um) but for me I try and cram so much into a day (like you know) And I just feel like I have more time than I have (like) if that makes any sense, so for me I’ll wake up in the morning and I’ll try to have a little workout and I will ring people, make sure that they’re okay, everything like that, I might do some sewing and then I might have an idea and I might have to sketch it out or do some writing and everything like that, and then I’m like “OOH okay! Ooh I’ve gotta do do this!” (Um) And yeah, I think (like) for me it’s just (like) because (like) with my day I put so much in (um) it’s just one of those things but the thing is (like you know) in my - in what I like to call - my past life, (you know) I had a very corporate job and I had to wake up and commute and everything like that and I was always on time, (like) that was the thing, (like) i always had everything all perfect and nice and neat, and I gave myself time to do everything, and then when I became self-employed I just really relished the amount of freedom that it gave myself as a person and towards my work and it’s (just, you know) always an eternal roller coaster to find balance between making sure i get enough time for myself and making sure I give a dedicated amount of time towards my work, and sometimes (it-) there are weird (like) crossovers where it’s just like; “Okay oh my goodness I’ve got this amount of time to get to this venue blah blah blah” but the thing is granted; i might be a bit late to actually getting to the venue but I’m always on time for (like) actually stage-call, everything like that so (like) when it comes to the actual finished product? I’m always there glossy, pumped with energy, ready & rearing to go so thats just my thing.

(25:52)

Crystal: I think Dave’s just being a bit of a shady bitch there to be honest, I think he’s trying to dob you in it a little bit.

Coco: Oh no it’s all good, it’s all good!

Crystal: But it goes back to you talking about how you- life is short and you just take each day as an opportunity for you to do anything thats (you know) thats fabulous and anything thats gonna make you, or make others happy, and I think that is just an example of- someone just trying to poke fun at the fact that you have (you know) your love and your energy in so many different things in a day and I think thats awesome!

(26:22)

Coco: I’m just gonna say I’ve actually just found the word, there is an actual word, and I think it’s pronounced ‘tidsoptimist’ which is ‘a person that (um) thinks they have more time than they actually do, and thus are habitually late’ so there’s actually a term!

Crystal: The more you know, we are- we are teaching the world so many things today.

- Coco chuckles -

Crystal: And the last thing we’re gonna teach the world- which if you have never seen Coco DeVille on stage, if you’ve never been in her presence or lets say you’ve never seen an image of Coco DeVille this is a podcast you know it’s in audio, (which um) then I’ll let Dave describe- say the rest because this last word is two words together which is; ‘Nice Arse.’

• Coco cackles -

Coco: Ah my boo-tay!

• Crystal & Coco chuckle -

(27:12)

Coco: Ahh love it! I think thats the thing it’s like- you know when I was growing up I got bullied a lot which I think seems to be a common thing for quite a few performers (it’s like), we’ve managed to use all this negativity and use that to find ourselves and (kind of like) figure out who we are and what we are about and I find it really interesting that I used to get bullied just for being ridiculously curvy when I was younger, I was short & curvy when- back in the day when it was all about being really slim & super skinny, and low jeans and Britney Spears and all that jazz, so (um) but you know having a big booty being embraced now it’s (er) it’s wonderful and I think (like) thats one of the reasons that I enjoy burlesque is about just shaking what your mamma gave you you know? It’s about enjoying that physical freedom and enjoying sharing that on stage, and yeah! So if people like my boo-tay then thats a good thing.

(28:26)

Crystal: Oh I think the world loves Ms Coco DeVille’s booty, but if there is someone that’s listening that is thinking about burlesque or thinking about performing but is- doesn’t have the confidence with their body is there any advice you’d like to give to them?

Coco: Yeah I think (you know) the joy of self-care and self-awareness is a very important thing so if you are feeling really down about your body- I always (kinda) put that down to the fact that we’re looking (er) for reassurance and approval from other people so (you know we-) we put stuff on our Instagram, and on various social media platforms and we’re always comparing ourselves to other people and that’s where (you know) I believe insecurity lies, but when you (kind of) spend time with yourself, what makes you happy? (what) What makes you excited? What inspires you? And just spending time getting to know your own mind, then you realise that all of these other influences they don’t mean anything and some of them, if they’re going to be positive attributes to your life then of course include that, but I think (like yeah-) I think when it comes to body positivity that has got to come from yourself and take time to learn about yourself and then you’ll realise that everything else just (kind of) falls to the wayside.

(29:51)

Crystal: Absolutely I couldn’t agree more, well thats the ‘7 Things’ done by Dave The Bear you have survived Coco DeVille!

Coco: Yay!

Crystal: No surprise you dominated it- we’re gonna go to our next section which i called; ‘True Love.’

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

Crystal: Now Coco ‘True Love’ is basically a time for you to tell us something that for as long as you can remember you’ve been passionately in love with and you are still in love with today, is there something that you can think of whether it is a- an activity, a movie, a piece of music, an artist, a book or a person, or just something- it could be something as small as breathing or something as small as a packet of Wotsits, just let me know let us know!

(30:37)

Coco: I think my true is (er) it’s actually - this is gonna be a bit weird - it’s actually an arts movement (um) The Harlem Renaissance, (um) because- so basically The Harlem Renaissance happened if I remember correctly in sort-of 1920s to the 1930s, 1940s over in America, so what happened is (like) the newly-“freed” slaves basically were embracing the freedom (um) that (you know) that their new identities were being allowed to be embraced so during that (you know) people were buying properties, people were (you know) opening up their buildings and (um) opening up shops and properties and everything like that, but what also was happening is (um) a lot of music was coming out at that time, a lot of fashion, a lot of dance trends and everything like that was starting to-to explode because everyone was (just) full of joy and-and emotion of that particular period of time, and what I always found particularly wonderful about the whole renaissance is (like) it’s the birth of (like) jazz & blues which are the instigators of (like) popular culture that we have now we still are inspired by a lot of the musicians that (kind-of) instigating certain movements back in the day and I think (like) more- the more I learn about that particular period of history the more I’m (just) in so much respect that (like) throughout all this oppression they still found (you know) ways to celebrate life and connect with each other and I think as well when (er you know) I’d learn about these parties & speak-easys and things it was like you’d have these occasions where people would hold a party and it’d be like these speakeasy things where there would be a secret password you’d have to know, all that kinda jazz but it would be one of the first times that you’d have people of different races partying together (um), people- different social classes partying together, (um) sexual orientations partying together and, it was just this lovely little bubble in Harlem where people were allowed to be free and be who they wanna be for that (sort of) moment in time and there is just so much beauty in knowing that existed and… yeah, thats always my (sort of) go-to whenever I am feeling a little down because there’s been (like) so many movies and things like that, so much fashion and things that came from that time period and I feel really grateful to see- to see all of that (um… yeah), so thats always been my constant love.

(33:45)

Crystal: Well thank you, thank you for telling me all about that as (you know um) we’re in a current climate where people need to be learning and people need to be listening a lot more to the past so that we can pay it forward in the way that is progressive to the future and to present day and thank you for your energy and thank you for your time with that-that means a lot. But now Coco we’re gonna take a little break.

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

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• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(34:51)

Crystal: Right we are back with Coco DeVille!

• Coco & Crystal chuckle -

Crystal: And we are gonna go into our section which is; ‘Topic Of Choice.’

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

Crystal: Coco ’Topic Of Choice’ is a time for you to have the floor and talk about something that you just wanna talk about today, with these interviews I don’t allow much planning for my guests because I want them to talk about something that’s impulsive, something that at this current time they really just wanna talk about whether it’s something really silly or a movie that you’ve watched, or an album that you’re listening to or something that’s been playing on your mind for a couple of days or months, we can talk about it and have a conversation about it, is there anything that comes across your mind today that you’d like to talk about with lil ole’ me?

(35:42)

Coco: (Um er) Okay, ummm I think the first thing that has just come in to mind is family (um), I think now is the time to start reconnecting with our families and the thing is that can be either your blood family or your chosen family because I think at this point in time with the world essentially being on fire and crazy chaos I think now is the time to start reaching out to the people that (you know kinda) made you-you, I know that over these past couple of months I’ve been in strong contact with my Mum for example, my Mum’s an NHS nurse so I’ve had these (kind of-sort of) moments to myself cos all of these venues have closed down, some of my work has (just- kind of) disappeared and I’m feeling all low and everything like that, but it just made me appreciate the fact that I’m actually in this profession in the first place and I’ll be okay and I’ll be fine, but then it was a case of just checking in with my Mum, taking myself out of my little bubble and just going like; “Right i’m going to ring my Mum and see how she is” and obviously the NHS is in chaos right now!

• Coco nervously laughs -

(37:01)

Coco: And so it’s just been really nice to actually be (er) to (kind of) rebuild the strength in that relationship because when I have been constantly working non-stop I haven’t connected with my family as much as I now believe I should’ve done so I am now really enjoying that notion that this lockdown has (kind of) given me a bit more time to (er-) to just connect (er) with the people that are important to me as I’ve also got my friends that are back down in Brighton as well so the fact that I moved up to Manchester and that was a total personal choice for myself and I absolutely love it but then (its just-you know) I love touching base with (like-) my close friends in Brighton and stuff and seeing how they are because (like it’s-) it’s been a tough one for everybody but it’s always really nice when you (just kind of-) randomly reach out to someone that (you know) that you were once upon a time (like) inseparable and then life happens and you (kind of) step out and pull away, but its really nice to just reconnect and (just kind of) give that little moment to someone going “Hey i’m still here, i’m still here for you, the love is still always there, you are my family, you are important to me, I’m just checking in on you as & when” And I think (like) if we all start (kind of) thinking like that so (you know) obviously spend time with yourself, spend time making sure that your head space is cool but (like) also try and find within your moment in a day just touching base with people that you care about and you love, and just saying “hey” just listen to them for a bit, just sharing that I think that would just make things a little bit more bearable because I know that it’s definitely worked for me and it’s definitely worked with the people that I’ve got around me and I feel very fortunate that I’ve got them there so it’s nice to remind them that I appreciate them.

(39:12)

Crystal: People are probably wondering why I am talking less than usual- it’s because once again Coco is very much my cabaret mother, I listen to her a lot and this is no disrespect to previous guests but the words that come out of Coco DeVille’s mouth I always (just) sit and really-really take it all in and I don’t have much to say to that because you’ve pretty much said everything that I would’ve said but more but… so much more, and I just appreciate your energy, I appreciate your words as a human, as a performer so-so much and that I think is so important right now and to add - if I was - to reconnect with family but to- I think to remind yourself of a spark you had with some people because-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: - I think people need to really (sort of) realise when they’ve connected & vibes with someone and- again we are in a current state of the world that is troublesome and it is wild and it is crazy and it has put some people in mindsets that question “How long do we have?” and that is a very morbid way of thinking-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -but I think it is a way of thinking that everyone should have in general, and what I mean by that is- what I mean by saying all of this is way back when, a few years ago when I first ever went out and performed in New York I had five days, I had five days with my mother and in the evenings was when I would go out and do drag until phwoar 4 in the morning and when I then returned and I was on my own and I was travelling solo, at each show or when I was at a show if I connected with someone I immediately said - and it stayed since then and I really-really advise anyone lived like this - anyone that I had a laugh with or I connected with I asked them immediately “what are you doing tomorrow?” “what are you doing in the afternoon? What are you doing in the evening?” “Lets go to dinner”

(41:03)

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal” “Lets see a show” “Lets go for a walk” Because the laws of attraction are very-very real-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -you are meant to connect with somebody and that connection I do believe will always be there no matter what happens and that goes to what your saying-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -that connection never dies, it never-never dies, there are people in our lives that there’ll be hurdles that you fall in front of and there’ll be time when you aren’t as connected as you once were or maybe will be, and one thing that we universally share as humans is that we are just that, we are human-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: - and we have hearts, we have love, we have experiences and now is the time to reconnect and to cherish and to treasure and (you know) I think it’s beautiful what you just said I think it’s so important to because in lockdown I’v every much reconnected and also capitalised on new connections I thought “you know what I’ve always had a great time with you” and I’ve ended up every other day sometimes every day talking to a person that prior to lockdown I’d talk to every so often in the comments d’ya know what I mean? It’s just joyous and I think life’s short!

Coco: Yeah.

(42:20)

Crystal: Just as you said.

Coco: Yeah thats the thing (its like you know-) as well (like) yeah enjoy it, hands down! Agree, I love that we’re on the same wave it’s beautiful (um yeah) I taught you well!

• Coco & Crystal chuckle -

Crystal: There we go!

Coco: But I think that’s the thing (it’s like- you know) I feel like sometimes we (like) a lot of times especially in lockdown a lot of people feel alone because they’re alone with certain feelings and emotions and it’s like; no we’re actually, we’re not, we just need to (kind of) not feel the fear of expression of how we actually feel (um) and the thing is as well with (like) certain connections (you know) you can message someone everyday and that can be your thing but then (yeah-like) sometimes you can go years without connecting with someone and just touch base with them and sometimes when you’ve got the spark - like you were saying - you can (like) reconnect with someone and it’s like time has just disappeared, it’s like you’re just back to how you were and how you are and I really just enjoy those types of friendships that just show as humans that you just connect and I think thats something that (you know) we gotta remind ourselves (like) it’s never too late to say hello, it’s never too late to (just) check in on someone, I just feel like we’ve gotta allow ourselves that freedom to (just) to just do it (you know,) there’s so much more to gain from those experiences.

(43:52)

Crystal: Absolutely, couldn’t agree more and it’s just so important but we’re gonna go straight to our next topic which is quite the opposite of the sort-of tone we’ve been talking about, the next topic is called; ‘Pet Peeves.’

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

(44:12)

Crystal: In this section Coco I want you to bring up something that’s grinding your gears, something that’s just- you know what this is a time for you to just vent, to get something out your system, whether it’s small, whether it’s major, whether it’s something that’s just come off the top of your head now or maybe it’s something I’ve done in this interview and you just wanna clip me round the ear, just let loose, tell me a couple of pet peeves maybe two, maybe just one, maybe two or three, anything that is grinding Coco DeVille’s gears at the moment lets have it.

(44:42)

Coco: Okay (um) quite a few things…

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: Bring it on.

Coco: Okay so what I’m really not digging, what really annoys me is the amount of people that are just really ignorant, (like we’re-) we’re at a very (sort of like) socially, politically very tender time where a lot of people are having to reevaluate the world that they’re surrounded by, (er) teachings, and social structures and everything like that, (er it’s just like) how some people - even when they’ve got evidence, when they’ve got all these people speaking out on certain issues that are just peopl- there’s a certain demographic of person that goes “no I don’t care, no thats not what I hear nope, nope, nope, no” (um) It’s just really frustrating.

• Coco laughs -

Coco: You know? (Like) I’ve been the kinda person that- I’ve been brought up- (you know- that- like-yeah) when you’re at school and you had to write an essay, you know you’d have to (like) do loads of research, read different books, listen to interviews, watch programmes and then you’d come up to your own conclusion, so the thing is you-you are forced to listen to all these voices and get (you know)- form your own views based on facts and logic and statistics and everything like that, then you’d come up to your own conclusion, and thats how I’ve (kind of) always lived my life I am very fortunate that (you know) I live in- well I’m just around a lot of people that are (you know) also that way (er) they have that sort of thought process as well, (Um) but (it’s just like-) I just get really frustrated that (like) a lot of people (just) are so easy to (just) dismiss a lot, I think (like) for me and what’s been really important is obviously the Black Lives Matter movement and I am just getting so annoyed at the amount of propaganda and stuff that you see online, and so many people are like “Ooh it’s actually a terrorist thing” and all this kind of stuff and its like HOW do you (like)- there is so much (like)- information out there, there’s so many people actually telling and sharing their actual experiences, why is your ignorance just not allowing yourself to (like) change your perception? And that’s what really gets to me because (like) you know we have to start listening to each other, we have to (like- you know) start embracing different voices and different perspectives because thats the only way we’re gonna progress and it’s (just like it’s-) really frustrating you’re seeing one demographic of society that are (like) “Woah didn’t know these issues were happening, this is crazy, I’m gonna go out my way and learn, and re-educate and help break down the system so everything’s all fair” and then you’ve got this one- another demographic of society that are dragging their heels that are just living in their own tiny little bubbles and it is just preventing progression for all and it’s just- that, that’s what really annoys me.

(47:57)

Crystal: No it’s exhausting and (it’s-) it’s you know it shouldn’t have to come from anyone of Colour or Black or Brown people to give their energy to inform or educate, people need to going out- people need to go out their and educate their mother-fucking selves-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -because it’s been years upon years upon years of horror, of absolute chaotic disgusting events that have unfolded throughout the world and enough is enough and it’s time for us White people to fucking take accountability-

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -and do the work, and it’s ridiculous that ‘Simon & Karen’ are out there saying that someone has dedicated their life - whether it is at a protest, whether it is in the library, whether it is in government or in politics, someone that is of Colour, that is Black or Brown, that is someone sharing their experience or sharing their life-long knowledge, and then just going: “Nah” Yet they’ll go and watch Blue Planet or Planet Earth and be like: “No but Attenborough knows his stuff” (like) There’s no difference when someone has dedicated their life to (um) create positive change-

Coco: Yeah.

(49:07)

Crystal: -we should be listening.

Coco: Totally (like), hit the nail on the head (it’s just like-), for so long (like) so many people in various minority groups have had to adapt their way of life and kinda shrug certain things off and accept certain things as being normal but it’s like; actually no, (like) everyone should be allowed to live life where they feel safe, everyone should want to live a life where their families are safe and secure and full of love, (you know) thats what someone thing we should be striving for everybody and the fact that there’s certain people that don’t want that? It’s just- it just blows my mind and it’s a level of ignorance now because we know- we’ve got the internet!

• Coco chuckles -

(49:54)

Coco: You know we’ve got the joys of the internet, so even if you see something or you’re hearing something that you’re like “Hmm i’m not sure about that” you can go and do your own research and then figure it out from there, but the fact that there’s so many people that are still reluctant to educate themselves it’s just really frustrating and it’s really draining but hopefully (you know) we’ll look back at this point in the future (um you know,) and hopefully we’ll be on the right side of history so fingers crossed.

(50:26)

Crystal: Turning the page to a much nicer section which is gonna change the tone completely from arsehole ignorance to the next section which is called; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: Now this is our last section Coco, but ‘Somebody To Love’ is a part of this interview that I love and I’m so happy that I get to do this because it just allows a moment for my guest to reflect on the people that or the art that makes them happy and makes the love go through their body and into their veins and ‘Somebody To Love’ is a section of the interview where I ask my guest to talk about someone or something that they have- maybe recently discovered or recently (um) inhabited in their life that keeps them going, or keeps them sane, (um) whether it’d be a singer or an artist or a lover, a loved one, a family member, a friend, and it just gives you the time to just sit and talk about what is just- someone or something that you love, do you have anything that comes to mind?

(51:35)

Coco: Yeah, (this is like-hmmmm)

• Coco chuckles -

Coco: (Um) I think for me - oh goodness that-thats a hard one-

• Coco chuckles some more -

Coco: (Um well) Something (you know like) for me (like) where I get my, my, my sources of love (um like), when it comes to (like) creatively? I’ve gotta thank my cabaret mamma - whose your cabaret grandmother - Dolly Rocket!

Crystal: Dolly Rocket!

(52:05)

Coco: Dolly Rocket, (like) I’m gonna give her a shout out because (um) when I first started performing (um) at Proud (um you know) it was just wonderful to- she’s just wonderful to watch full stop, the way she holds herself and the way she commands the crowd it’s just inspiring, absolutely inspiring so it’s (like you know-) I remember the first (sort of) instances where I was properly fan-girling and everything like that and I’d just been aware of (like) her work with people like Booglaloo Stu and things like that and she just seemed to be (like) this absolutely awesome force of just epicness, (um) as the (you know-) as the years went by and we became (like) really good friends because we were working together a lot and everything like that, she also (like) gave me (like) so much (like) grounding and inspiration and you know just helping me (just) fine tune myself as an artist and owning myself and everything like that, (um) but as well as that (like), when I was going through a lot of personal issues (like you know-), I was going through some quite heavy stuff like on relationship levels or (like) financially and things like that and it was a total-total struggle, (Um) she was there for me to embark that mound because she’s the kind of person that has been performing all her life and when you come (you know-) from- as a fresh from university art student you always get warned like “Ooh there’s no money in the arts” or “Ooh it’s only gonna be a temporary thing” or like “After a certain age” all this, that and the other, you know, and when I’m around someone like her you know it’s just that case of (like) you just make it work; if this is where you’re meant to be in life you will make it work, you will find a way and (you know) its just such a joy to have that (sort of), someone that I can go to whether it’s- whatever is going on in my life I can (like) go to someone like that her and thats just fantastic and (you know) I have (like) on a personal level I have my friend (er) my friend Lyndsey who I went to university with (um) and she’s also been there for me on a friendship level since (like) freshers week and still to now and sometimes I think we forget (like) certain friendships (like) might happen at a party or at uni or whatever (you know) but sometimes those friendships can have the total longevity (you know) and thats (kind of) the joy and I just love the fact that I’m- (you know) I have certain people in my life that I can touch base with and that they can help boost me up and I can help boost them up and it’s just this wonderful little network but I do believe (you know) that if you (kind of) put the good energy out then you will get it back, it might not be straight away but it is that kind-of that kind of energy & flow and thats what I love and yeah! Yet again gone on a tangent!

(55:35)

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: It is so-so wild how the world works and when I say that I think about- very recently I went out for the first time in drag FOR FUN-

Coco: Yay!

(55:45)

Crystal: In about- I wanna say 5 or 6 years and I went out with my good friend Herr The Queen and we went out with these group of queens who were so young and me & Herr kept on making jokes about how (like-) and old Lady Gaga song came on and we would go “Oh remember this in our day?” because we figured out that when it was out, when it was released these queens were (like) 11 & 12?

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: And paying it forward is so important- not only in our industry but in life - that when you- the practice of paying it forward; once you introduce into your life it becomes automatic, you become a human that just wants to make (you know-) make everyone feel nice and make everyone feel good, and if it wasn’t for people like Dolly Rocket in your life and for me (like) yourself in your life, I couldn’t have those moments with these 18 year old queens! Because I used to be 18 year old baby queen you know! And share my knowledge and share my experience and give them advice when they asked for it, (um) and it’s just joyous how paying it forward really makes the world turn in terms of love, in terms of friendship and connection, and Dolly Rocket is just a legend-

(57:04)

Coco: Yeah.

Crystal: -and I have been very lucky to have worked with her I think once or twice and to share moments and I dared called her grandma…

- Coco & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: -but she openly accepted (um,) but it’s just awesome and this whole interview there’s been this theme of love, family and (um) taking life by the balls and realising how short & precious it is and you are such a testament to living life to the full and being a true heart, and a true soul and you’re such a- (it-it-) To meet people that are in the game and are incredible at what they do and are esteemed and I meet them and I say “Oh hello oh I’m Crystal doo-do-doo-“ Because there are many people that I’ve yet to work with and get to work with that I work in the room and I know who they are, I know where they’ve been and I love their work but do you know what always is an amazing ice breaker Coco? Is that tell them that my cabaret mother is Coco DeVille.

• Coco laughs -

(58:08)

Crystal: And they immediately- (it’s like-) they’re like “Ok this one is-you’re good, you’re fine, lets talk, lets hang out” you know what I mean?

Coco: Ooh thats amazing.

Crystal: It’s amazing and the world is full of amazingness and we just need to keep on making it turn through love and through positivity & change, lord knows I have learnt my lessons and I have had hurdles that I’ve had to jump and I have missed, but ultimately when we fall down and when we pick ourselves back up as performers and as people, we take every single lesson and we put it towards the future and we pay what we have learnt forward and what we have in our skills and our love and our care for each other forward as well and you are just one of the most caring, authentic, incredible people- I’ve spoken to you about things, I’ve spoken to you about incidents or people that have upset me and you’ve either gone; “there there you’ll be okay, everything will be okay, don’t worry about, lets focus on you & your health” and somedays you’ve been like “No get your bag we’re gonna go to her apartment-

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: -and we’re just gonna talk about it, we’re not gonna do anything we’re just gonna talk about it”

Coco: “We’re just gonna talk, we’re just gonna talk, it’s alright!”

(59:18)

Crystal: “We’re just gonna talk!” (Um) And you just- you are such a caring person and I’m JEALOUS of Manchester-

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: I’m so-so jealous of Manchester and these communities that have you in their realm at the moment cos lord knows where you’ll go next because you love to travel and you love to have new experiences, but wherever Coco DeVille goes that place is fucking spoilt my love!

Coco: Awww! I’m getting so emotional right now.

Crystal: So before we go Coco is anything that you wish to plug, is there anything you wish to advertise?

(59:56)

Coco: I am involved in a collective (er) it’s part of Duckie and it’s called The Posh Club, (um) and there’s various Posh Club’s all around London and Brighton, everything like that- basically it’s an event (um) for the elderly so it’s basically- the concept of it is a project to combat loneliness amongst the elderly people, but what- the way that we’re gonna combat this is creating communities and events under the guise of a fabulous, amazing cabaret show (um) and we’ve got stuff online so we’ve been producing bits & pieces online and things like that, but I just feel like this is a project that I think more people need to be aware of and try and support so whether you’re a performer (um) and you want to perform for these kinda crowds or whether you just wanna help and volunteer and just be in this environment, I think (you know) we’re in a point now - more than ever - as artists, any kinda point we can get, our work out in to the communities, out into groups of (er) people that might not necessarily come across performance and Duckie fun stuff, (like) now is the time to start breaking down those boundaries, (um) now’s the time to start being, (you know) sharing our work and our joy with all these different communities because now more than ever it’s more- it’s so needed.

(1:01:27)

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: I’ve seen clips and I’ve seen little bits & bobs from The Posh Club and what they do through an amazing performer - who I’m sure you know of - is Rhys Pieces whose incredible and they do a lot of work with The Posh Club and it looks phenomenal (um) and I’m sure many people who are listening are gonna get on that instagram and hit them up and have a look and help support because one thing that lockdown has taught us is that community is everything and support is everything so Coco DeVille lastly I wanna that you’re incredible, you are amazing-

Coco: Awww!

(1:01:59)

Crystal: -I love you, I am so proud of you-

Coco: Love you too! Aw!

Crystal: -and I’m so excited for people that are listening that may not know of Coco DeVille- first of all; how dare you -

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: -but secondly; how lucky they are to go and have a binge on your socials, on YouTube and I look forward to a day when we can get back on stage and I look forward to the day when we can do a bloody double act! Thats gotta happen!

Coco: Yeaaah! One day!

Crystal: We’ve had little moments but you know the world is our oyster and I truly have a vibe that we’ll kick arse and do a massive double act one day.

Coco: Yeah.

(1:02:33)

Crystal: But for now Coco thank you so much for being on my podcast, and thank you so much for being in my life-

Coco: Ooh my goodness.

Crystal: -you’ve saved me from really dark moments, you’ve saved me from really-really tumultuous times and you’ve saved me from my own demons and made me realise when I need to step up a little bit or maybe when I need to sort my own things out before I even try and sort someone else and you are such a kind, patient person and I thank you so-so much for being here today.

(1:03:02)

Coco: Oh no thats the thing all of that energy is just within yourself, all I did was just (kinda) change your perception on certain situations and all the rest was you so yeah!

Crystal: But Coco DeVille you are a beautiful human being, you’re an incredible performer, you’re an AWARD-WINNING DIVA!

Coco: OoOoOh!

Crystal: And I will see you in the next one my love.

Coco: Yes indeed, mwah! All the love!

Crystal: Mwah mwah! Take care my darling!

Coco: Mwah right bye!!

(1:03:27)

Crystal: Thank you so-so much to the absolutely incredible Coco DeVille for being my guest on today’s episode of What Are You Like?! If you wish to follow Coco thats @MsCoco DeVille on Instagram M-S-C-O-C-O-D-E-V-I-L-L-E on Instagram, give them a google, find them, love them, book them, the cabaret chameleon and drag mother of mine, they are just everything to me… If you wanna hit me up thats @CrystaLubrikunt on Instagram thats C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T but for now stay camp, stay fabulous and just you know, treat yourself! Stay hydrated, have a bloody wank.

• Crystal laughs -

Crystal: I’ll see you in the next one, ta-rah… “Ta-rah?” What am I on about?

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to fade into the background -

Episode Ends

View Details

Meme Culture has ruled the roost of social media for the last decade and Joe Gunn is one of the cock destroyers in this chicken coop. Talking to Crystal about perfectionism, battling fear, in-flight social distancing, The Real Housewives and Britney Jean Spears lets get into it with one of the leading Meme hit-makers of today. 

Music by Kevin Macleod 

Transcript available at whatareyoulike.libsyn.com

View Details

(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like… it could go one way or another but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea, wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing, just make sure you’re comfy, relaxed and ready for some fabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:37)

Meme culture is a forever-growing form of entertainment and an abstract-niche way of communicating thats dominated the online world for the last decade, and my gorgeous friend Joe Gunn is one of the Meme masters out there making sure we all have a little bit more laughter in our day. From Real Housewives to Britney Spears, platform activism and getting recognition from stars like bloody Mariah Carey, it’s time - after all these years of Meme-making - that we talked to the queen of the Meme and it’s time that we also found out what they are really like…

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts fade in to the background -

(01:14)

Crystal: Hello Joe how are you my lovely?

Joe Gunn: I’m really good thank you, thank you for having me on your podcast, it’s tight & flawless and (er) I love it! I love it- it gives me that buzz! How are you Crystal?

• Crystal sniggers -

Crystal: I’m good- that’s gonna be the first time a man has ever called me “tight & flawless”.

Joe: Blimey wait till you get to 30.

Crystal: Today we’re just gonna get right into it and I’m gonna straight-up, see what you say and ask you the penultimate question which is; what are you like?!

Joe: What am I like?!

• Crystal wheezes -

(01:45)

• Joe puts on a fake American accent -

Joe: I am a performer, I am a Mom, I am funny, I am your friend, I am… Britney Jean. “Britney Jean!”

• Crystal cackles -

• Joe returns to their normal accent -

Joe: (Um-) What am I like? (No-) I am funny actually, I am independent, self-deprecating, I’m depressed, I’m a hard worker, I’m conscientious… I think I’ve said a good bunch of words that’s me.

Crystal: Do you remember when you first created or - first even had a knack for - creating a Meme? Because in the introduction to this video I talk about Meme culture “to this video” ? To this podcast, and I talk about Meme culture and do you- what is your earliest recollection of ‘The Meme’?

(02:27)

Joe: So the earliest would’ve been (like) dicking around on Facebook statuses (you know,) and you know when you get one that has a 11 likes and you’re like “I’m a comedian.”

• Crystal chuckles -

Crystal: That’s it.

Joe: (Um) “This is my career now, this is me now” (Um) Yeah and (er) just being funny anyway from (er) a child in school making people laugh has always- I got my kicks from that- making my peers and the teachers laugh and it all just (sort of) grew from that and now I just make people on the internet laugh with (um) dumb Meme’s and (er) god the first one I did was… (yeah-) So I started at this 3 years ago-

(03:15)

Crystal: Has it one been 3 years?!

Joe: (Um yes!) Well yes! Yes 3 & a half maybe?

Crystal: Oh my goodness it feels like it’s been a lot longer than that.

Joe: Well like I said- I said it feels like it’s always been in me (just) to make people laugh, and so (I just-) had (like) these YouTube videos with Bryony and being a performer, doing plays, and it just felt natural to go into it, it wasn’t like “umm I need a hobby I’m going to try and do a Meme” (it’s like-) No I just (sort of) did it.

(03:46)

Crystal: What do you think it is about Meme culture and (just) Meme’s in general, that are more engaging and more entertaining than - lets say - a video clip of a comedian telling a joke?

Joe: First of all; you have to be more engaged with- well I don’t know because there’s subtitles on most videos now so you can if you’re (just sort of) watching on the train and scrolling through and it’s (like) a quick, under 15 second one-liner that the comedian is doing it’s probably on par with a Meme. (You know) Meme’s are just for- people are- yeah they’re on the train, whatever- at the bus stop, scrolling through their phone, it has got to be; quick, to the point, (um) instantly hilarious, instantly wanting to- you get this- I keep going back to Sophie Anderson just with that buzz! You just want to tag all your mates, you just NEED to share it because it’s “SO true!”

(04:40)

Crystal: It’s a (sort of) self-referential piece of comedy because (I think) Meme’s - a lot of them - are (is it-) - is reactionary a word? - but it’s a (sort of) a reaction that can be punctuated in conversation and as I said in the introduction; I say that “Meme culture has become an abstract-niche way of communication” now.

Joe: Yep!

Crystal: Because you can have a genuine conversation with someone just by sending each other Meme’s.

(05:07)

Joe: 100% and I do, I do! (Like I-) Which is why I love Twitter, I’ve just got - obviously - a bank of reaction Meme’s in my notes.

Crystal: Is there - because there is a god tier of iconic Meme’s I would like to say, whether it’s Gemma Collins or Housewives, or (you know) Beyonce - Off the top of your head, immediately right now what is a Meme that you think is a long-lasting, iconic, of our time Meme? What is one that comes to your head?

Joe: And I hate to dissappoint you but I’ve gone completely blank so um… yeah I don’t really know, maybe Kris Jenner that’s (like) an average one?

(05:43)

Crystal: “You’re doing amazing sweetie”

Joe: Yeah… that’ll-that’ll make the locals laugh.

• Crystal cackles -

Crystal: For those at home, Joe said that as they sipped their cup of tea, we’re gonna kick things off with our first section Joe and our first section is called; ‘7 Things’.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

(06:04)

Crystal: Now ‘7 Things’ is a time for when I invite a peer, a friend, someone you admire, someone you love, to come on the podcast - virtually - and give us a couple of words to describe you and we go through each of those words and try and decipher why they’ve used these words to describe Joe Gunn are you ready?

Joe: Who is it? Whom could it be?

Crystal: It’s only Bryony Twydle.

Joe: Looove!

(06:32)

Crystal: The first word that Bryony Twydle has described Joe Gunn is; ‘Hilarious’.

Joe: That’s very sweet and (um) well yeah I’m funny, (um) yeah. I agree.

Crystal: When you were a lot younger can you remember being someone that wanted to make people laugh?

Joe: Yeah.

• Crystal wheezes -

Crystal: The second word that Bryony Twydle has described Joe Gunn is; ‘Determined’.

Joe: Okay great, (no) that sounds like a good thing to be described as.

Crystal: If you have your goal set do you (very much) drive full speed ahead you’ve met with that goal?

Joe: Or until I’ve exhausted every avenue and I (er) except that-that goal is not ever going to be reached.

(07:12)

Crystal: When is Bravo gonna bring in a U.K department and when are you going to be hired?

Joe: Well it’s called Hayu and (er you know) here’s the thing with me- it’s interesting that she says ‘Determined’ because I (like sort of) do not (really) go after my goals (like), I’m always (sort of) bitching that Hayu haven’t hired me yet but then I haven’t really done anything to actively, determinedly go after it. I’ve been to a Hayu event where I’ve chatted to the employees and (sort of) been like “Oh are you gonna bring out a podcast?” So I haven’t explicit said “Look, here’s my pitch for a Hayu podcast it’s gonna great!” (Um) I’m (sort of like-) I don’t know, there’s the saying of “Don’t sit around waiting for opportunities to comes to you, you’ve gotta get up and make them” but I just don’t, I just sit around and wait for them to come to me.

(08:07)

Crystal: I think a lot of people can relate to that.

Joe: I know, and I totally agree with you people should (um), should just hire me and take me out of my misery- not that I’m (like) miserable, but you know (like) I’m not in a job that I’m necessarily passionate about but it pays the bills you know? (Um) would I like to be doing something that I love? Absolutely, who wouldn’t? I am (kind of like) a goal person so; do this one thing, ok get on the property ladder and then we’ll figure out what my careers gonna be.

(08:37)

Crystal: Absolutely you’ve got to do it step by step by step, and this is the official pitch to Hayu to hire Josephine Gunn as their prime podcast creator, content creator and decider on who gets cast on The Real Housewives.

• Crystal sniggers -

No I think you might have to battle Andy for that one. The third word that Bryony Twydle said is; ‘Perfectionist.’

(09:00)

Joe: Yeah?… Okay, (like) there’s a lot of negative connotations with perfectionism, people throw around the word- the term OCD a lot which I think is incredibly offensive to people who have the mental illness obsessive compulsive disorder, (um) and I’m very quick to say that I don’t have OCD actually, I just like things my way.

• Crystal imitates a comedic moment from film The Holiday both Joe & Crystal adore -

Crystal: “oooh someone’s having a party tonight!”

Joe: “OooOooh someones having a party tonight- oh yeah!” (Um) Okay ‘perfectionist’ yeah I can see aspects of myself in that, thanks Bryony um-

• Crystal wheezes -

Crystal: “Thanks Bryony um see you in the meeting.”

(09:41)

Joe: Nooo! I love this section I do it’s just (sort of like) what do you do when a word is thrown at you about yourself?

Crystal: Of course, well it’s a section that I’m really proud of because it makes people face a bit of (like) vulnerability, also a sense of self love & self care.

Joe: Yeah it’s (er) - like Tutu said it’s a therapy session and it’s for free so thanks Crystal!

(10:04)

Crystal: The fourth word is ‘Brave.’

Joe: Okay!

Crystal: Do you find yourself to be quite a brave person?

Joe: Okay, yeah I mean I’m a long term believer in the mantra; “Feel the fear and do it anyway” Um… One of the biggest things that took me out of my comfort zone was I just suddenly said “I’m gonna go volunteer abroad” and I did, and that taught me a lot about myself but one of the main takeaways was (um) you’ll never feel ready (er) to do ‘the thing’ (you know), there’s never gonna be a time where you are ready, you’re always going to feel like there’s that feeling of “did I turn the iron off?” or whatever, “did I turn my hair straighteners off?” You’re always going to have that you just have to go out of the door and get on that plane to Indonesia.

(10:53)

Crystal: The next word that Bryony Twydle has used to describe Josephine Gunn is; ‘Generous’. Do you find you’re quite generous with your time, quite a generous person? Like myself I very much have a lot of energy to give a lot of people but when it comes to the people that are very prominent in my life, when it comes to the people that I love- I’m in love with sorry - and I believe that love has different scales it’s not just about ‘true’, ‘intimate’, ‘romantic’ love (like) for example your best mate, you love them, it’s (like) unconditional, do you- are you very generous with your love, and with your time and with your energy?

Joe: “Love is the thing you know!?”

• Crystal cackles -

“Louise, from St Louis” (um yeah) Obviously I don’t give- I’m not generous with my time to people I don’t give a shit about.

• Joe wheezes -

(11:34)

Crystal: Yeah I feel you, I think thats- One thing I found thats (sort of) within the act of growing up, which as it sounds it’s revolting to talk about but is the act of discipline of where you in the world, and what I mean by that is that it’s something that actually follows us from school to university, to adulthood, to the end of time and what I mean is when we are grounded in an area - wherever we move to, wherever we go unless you are constantly travelling then good for you - but you are disciplined to surround yourself with whoever is around you, and it’s always interesting whenever you move or whenever you leave a job or you move schools or leave university you find you get a really good idea of who you wanna spend your time with because it shows off the energy that they wanna give to you now you’re longer within their area that you have (sort of) been grounded in discipline with, do you know what I mean?

(12:33)

Joe: I know what you mean! (um) Yeah! So obviously for example Bryony is one of the people that I am in contact with from school- I don’t know it’s like a no-brainer with Bryony though because you don’t even have to think about it (like-but yeah-), but from university you just- it’s just life isn’t it? You spend everyday with them and then suddenly you’re not at university anymore and you just (er-), you don’t talk you know, you see their engagement posts on Instagram and you don’t like it.

• Crystal & Joe laugh -

You just scroll on past.

Crystal: Listen it’s realism and i’m here for it. The sixth word Bryony has used to describe Joe Gunn is; ‘Honest’.

Joe: Yeah?

Crystal: How honest does Joe get?

(13:12)

Joe: I can be honest and I feel like (um) yeah I’ve learnt to put a filter on it over the years (um), I remember there was one summer where I literally lost a whole group of friends because I was watching (um) New York Housewives and I was (sort of) by osmosis I had become Ramona Singer, and I was just-

Crystal: Oh my god.

Joe: - a monster and (er) I would just (sort of-)

• Joe puts on a voice similar to that of Ramona Singer -

You know she just (likes) speaks her mind she doesn’t think about what she says she just comes out with it she just- I just (like) love the colour yellow! And where’s the air conditioning (like) oh my god-

• Joe drops the accent -

and then (um-)

Crystal: I think she is fascinating.

(13:47)

Joe: Oh my goodness I could watch her (just) - same with Dorit from Beverly Hills - I could watch her sitting on a chair blinking and I’d just be absolutely gripped.

Crystal: As you know, I have very recently- and I feel like when I started I felt the mental clip round the ear from you because for years, for years! Listeners, Joe Gunn has told me to start watching Real Housewives Of New York because, because of following reasons and I’ve put it off, I put it off, I put it off and finally lockdown allowed me to start watching Real Housewives Of New York and I’m currently on season 5 now and it is like watching a group of drag queens with the thickest New York accents, with endless amounts of money, just go about their day and try and make (you know) good TV and it is joyous, trash television and I cannot thank Joe enough for finally (sort of) giving me the push I need and Joe you are a Real Housewives master I would like to say, you know a lot the franchise, what is it about The Real Housewives that you find so entertaining and engaging?

(15:01)

Joe: A lot of people get into The Real Housewives (um) from a dark place and (um) so I’m not alone in this it’s actually true in the Bravo community people (sort of) turn to it to (er) escape, it is escapism and it’s also- (like er-) people turn to it in times of loneliness, you feel like you get to know these women and they become part of your life (er) and yeah, I guess I was in a (sort of) place where I just wanted to just dive into it and it’s funny I actually started off following the recaps of Real Housewives episodes before I actually went into committing and sitting- because this is before Hayu so you had to put in the work to watch Real Housewives, you had to find it online…

(15:57)

Crystal: I think I can relate specifically with RuPaul’s Drag Race before it went on to Netflix and (you know) you had to go to the darkest ends of the internet back in 2012 to find seasons 3 & 4 I totally relate to that.

Joe: I definitely support your journey and I love that you’re (erm) you know who Ramona Singer is so you can relate to me that of course you’ll lose all your friends if you start to act like Ramona Singer.

• Joe laughs -

Crystal: Is there - because I wanna specifically talk about- when we talk about Housewives I wanna just single out New York with this question - if you could bring a housewife of New York past into the present and cast them on to the next season who would you cast?

(16:33)

Joe: Heather, just that she’s a fan favourite I feel like but then I always think Jules didn’t have enough time in the sun, Jules and her broken pistachio- you haven’t got to Jules yet so you’ve got no fucking idea what I’m talking about.

Crystal: I’m excited though it makes me look forward to it but I’m on Heather at the moment and Heather seems pretty genuine & sweet.

• Joe puts on a Heather impression -

Joe: “Holla!”

• Joe drops impression as Crystal laughs -

Crystal: We’re gonna go straight on to the last word of Bryony Twydle’s ‘7 Things’ about Joe Gunn and the last word is; ‘Supportive’ and I wanna start by saying that I do think that you are an incredibly supportive person because I’ve known you for so long but only so close for so long as well, and whenever I talk to you it’s as if no time has passed and I think thats such a special connection you can have with a person that whether you see them however many times a year or however many times a couple years, that whenever you talk it’s always gonna be a strong bridge and you can walk and chat to each other as if no time has gone by, and you’ve always been so supportive of my drag when I was doing it in ridiculous clothing, in ridiculous make up and you always came and saw my shows whenever I was in Bristol and thats ultimately how we reconnected and, so I wanted to start off by saying that myself because I do think that you are an incredibly supportive person and ultimately through what you do and through what you do when creating Meme’s; it is- of course there are (like um) controversial events that occur in pop culture that Meme culture capitalises on but for the most part a lot of it is celebration, and you’re celebrating someone so that is a big act of being a supportive person as well so on top of all that; do you think that you are a supportive person?

(18:19)

Joe: Thank you for that, that’s very sweet and it’s a two-way street thing friendship (you know?) so you’re as much to play as I am in (erm you know), the push and pull, we feel comfortable when we’re chatting (you know), it can have been six months or a year and we just jump straight back into and that’s great and I value that in a friendship as well, so yeah love having you as a mate Crys ‘course! I like to think I am a supportive person to people that I want to support, (you know) ooh that sounds weird because like-

(18:58)

Crystal: No it’s not I completely- absolutely.

Joe: - and if someone approaches me (um) for help, or support (you know) I try to be as gracious as I can and (um) yes! Yes it’s a great attribute to have and I’m thrilled that Bryony has included it as one of my 8 words as a supportive person. (Um) I like to celebrate in other people’s success, Ariana Grande said “there is so much room at the top” (you know) just because someone else wants to sit at your table doesn’t mean that you’re going to be pushed off the table, the table’s fucking massive and everyone has a seat at the table there is a place for everyone and it feels good to celebrate in other people’s success and to lift people up and (um yeah) have I made tasteless Meme’s - going to your point of Meme’s - have I made tasteless Meme’s in the past? Yes, did it feel good? No, so I’ve always had that core (um) feeling when I’m putting something together whether it is in good taste or not and whether it feels good or not, most of- 90% of my content, 99% of my content is women, I love to celebrate women.

(20:10)

Crystal: We’re gonna wrap up, that was ‘7 Things’ with Joe Gunn by Bryony Twydle, thank you so much Bryony for giving us those lovely-lovely words, we’re gonna go into our next section which is called; ‘True Love’.

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

Crystal: Now Joe, ‘True Love’ is a time for you to talk about something that- since you can remember - you have always loved, and to this day still love so passionately, can you think of something?

Joe: Probably again - broken record - just making people laugh, growing up I would piss myself at Victoria Wood, Graham Norton, Alan Carr, Bryony made me laugh! I’d never met- (I was- I-) I was obsessed after I’d first met her, (like) i’d never met anyone like her and it’s just someone who is just naturally hilarious I was like; right I’ve got to infiltrate myself into this person’s life and I did.

• Joe wheezes -

Crystal: Laws of attraction, you kick them in the arse and you say “I’m going to this woman and I’m gonna make this a thing!” And on that note we’re going to take a little break.

(21:04)

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet!Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(21:51)

Crystal: And we’re back with Joe Gunn and we’re gonna go straight on to ‘Topic Of Choice’.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

Crystal: So Joe is there anything that comes to mind that you would like to talk about today, anything thats on your mind that you want to (just) get out your system, something you would love to talk about whether it’s someone, something, a programme, a film, the dinner you had last night? Let’s “tork” about it, tell me all… I just said “tork abouk” it.

• Crystal wheezes -

Tell me all!

(22:22)

Joe: (um) What do I want to talk about? Well I currently am watching Real Housewives Of Atlanta (um) because I thought I hadn’t seen it but the more I’m watching it the more I’m like “yeah I’ve seen this episode, yeah seen this one” so it’s like- (um) but I’m just going back into the archive, because I’m off for two weeks just because I’d booked off a week around Manchester Pride and then Celine Dion was directly after so essentially I had two weeks off so I’m just floating around on annual leave.

(22:52)

Crystal: You have to take- if you have a ticket to see Celine Dion you have to take a week off because you need to have three days to prepare and two days to recover from the icon that is Celine Dion, “shall we go for it?” Yes we bloody shall.

Joe: Absolutely and thats exactly what I did, “And thats the way the cookie crumbl-“ Whats that from?

• in unison -

Joe: Oh Bruce Almighty | Crystal: Bruce Almighty

• they both laugh -

Joe: We both get the same references I love it!

Crystal: Oh my god well I also do wanna bring up because we did talk about them so much in (er) your podcast but I do want to bring them up because it’s an ongoing, never-ending scenario, i do believe that when you are a fan of this person I honestly believe it’s like being a fan of no other, I don’t think any other fandom can relate to what its like to be a fan of this person, I honestly would like to say that and (er) if you’ve got an issue with that then please, don’t tell me, but it’s Britney Spears.

(23:45)

Joe: Bitch!

Crystal: One thing Joe & I have been doing very recently is we’ve been sending each other sound bites - I think it’s been out for maybe two/three months I can’t really remember exactly - but (the o-) this is what being a Britney Spears fan is, if we get an ounce, a single second of charisma of (un-) candid moment from Britney that is unlike and- (d’ya know-) not fitting with the conservatorship, we will hark on about it for years until we get the next bit for (and um it’s) it’s similar to the “Good Morning America.”

(24:18)

Joe: Crystal tagged me in an Instagram story at (like) two in the morning and it was like “Oh my god!!” and it was just the Pride remix of Britney.

Crystal: And the opening is just her saying, please take it away Joe-

Joe: “There’s only one bitch… - Joe shouts down microphone - The real one!”

• Crystal wheezes -

Joe: “Britney.”

Crystal: Thats gonna break everyone’s speakers, we will punctuate it into anyway, shape or form we can to make it more entertaining and it is simply just Britney - obviously just recording down an iPhone - saying “There’s only one bitch, the real one, Britney”

Joe: “The real one”

Crystal: “Britney”

Joe: It’s just- I don’t know there was something about it where it (sort of like) “There’s only one bitch…” and then she goes into speaking voice “The real one” Britney.

- Crystal giggles -

(25:03)

Joe: And so I just picked up my voice notes and was like:

• Joe shouts into microphone in a British uptight annoyed woman voice-

“HOW LONG!?”

- Crystal & Joe laugh -

Crystal: (Where does- I don’t-) The thing is-is you say that, that “How long?!” one and I just know- I see Janine at the dairy counter in ASDA, waiting for her Gorgonzola to be fresh.

Joe: Not the Gorgonzola.

Crystal: Always the Gorgonzola. And just- “How long!?” And then prior to that me & Joe would quote Britney songs in the voice of Mary Poppins-

• Joe puts on a Mary Poppins voice as he recites a Britney song -

Joe: “Doo-doo lets get it blazing!”

• Crystal giggles and joins in -

Crystal: “And trust me!”

• Joe cackles -

Crystal: “It’s going to be a morning to remember!”

(25:52)

Crystal: What would you say, as Britney Spears fan - I wonder if you have an answer for this - is your favourite Britney Spears fragrance?

Joe: I am a fake fragrance fan because I’ve only experience this one - Joe is referring to Britney Spears’s fragrance Fantasy -

Crystal: I have a very big soft spot for the Radiance- what is the “I choose my own destiny” one?

Joe: Radiance.

Crystal: Yeah absolutely, well it got the best ad campaign.

(26:15)

• Joe puts on impression of Fortune Teller within said campaign -

Joe: “Do you want to see your future?”

Crystal: “No thanks.”

Joe: (Like) She- I read a really good take, is that she saw the sign saying that it was a Fortune Teller, she chose to go in, and take a seat at this obvious fortune teller and this fortune teller is (literally like) ok so you’ve come here to get your fortune read, and she goes “No.”

• Crystal & Joe laugh -

(26:38)

Joe: Gets up and leaves.

Crystal: It’s literally - (d’ya know what) as a vegan, before (like) KFC had a vegan option it was like going into KFC and being like “hmmmm”

• They both laugh -

Crystal: No, I’m good! But (um) I find it very difficult when people ask & share a post, a lot of these viral posts that have been going around that are slides upon slides of different notes on the conservatorship and what not, and they always say; “Is this true?” And the thing is that some of it is very evidently true and some of it we can’t sit there and say yeah it is, but the ultimate (um) destination that its at where everyone is in the know and everyone is talking about it, when people talk about Britney Spears, is probably a good thing, rather than no one saying anything, when it all comes into fruition, and it all comes out whether it is via a book or she has enough and she’s able to get out of the conservatorship scot-free, get her fortune, and she’s finally able to do a 20/20 With Barbra Walters (um it will-) I do think its gonna go down as one of the biggest scandals in Hollywood history.

(27:52)

Joe: I agree. No it’s true! It’s true!

Crystal: Because “there’s only one bitch”

• in unison -

Joe: “The real one” | Crystal: “The real one”

Crystal: But we’re gonna go to our next section which is; ‘Pet Peeves’.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

(28:10)

Crystal: Now Joe this is the time for you to tell me what is grinding your gears at the moment, all bets are off, tell me whats pissing Joe off.

Joe: People who aren’t social distancing!

Crystal: Give us examples Joe.

Joe: House parties.

Crystal: House parties, I think some celebrities have been very questionable, I think Dua Lipa did post a party or two, and it was a bit concerning but as a performer who’s been- I’m now third show deep in the return to what I do as a performer since lockdown- it has been very faith restoring to do shows where people have behaved, where people have stayed in their seat and not broken the rule, and- for the most part I should say! There’s definitely been one or two people that have tried it! But for the most part to be on stages that every time I get off & on it’s sanitised and it’s being looked after it’s very faith restoring but… yes there is- I will never forget that evening when (um) pubs & bars were able to go into operation and seeing those visuals of Soho.

(29:24)

Joe: It’s just gross, it’s like have I been living in an alternative reality? Yeah there’s that funny Tik Tok video “The pandemic isn’t over just because you’re over it” and it’s true, it’s true!

Crystal: Yeah, yeah.

Joe: (Um) Yeah, it’s just people have forgotten about it, they got bored with it didn’t they? “Lets just- we can do it now, lets just (er) fuck it all bets are off” And (er) it’s just disappointing to see friends of mine (um er-) fully not social distancing, but hey! I don’t social distance, guess why? Because it is my job, you can’t social distance on a plane (um), what am I gonna do? That’s a double-edge sword, ideally would I like all airline & aviation sectors to still be on furlough with no flights going until every country is fully under control? (um) Yeah, but (um) capitalism is too powerful and (um but then) if people don’t book flights then I would be out of a job, (um) so thats a double-edge sword so I give myself (um) slack for that, yeah I’ve gotta go to work I do everything I can; wear a mask, wash my hands, (um) but I can’t social distance in my job, but then the difference is I don’t come back from my job, get dolled up and go to a house party and (um), and it’s the (argh) it’s the shamelessness for me, it’s the posting selfies and group photos, it’s just… the amount of privilege is just- it’s really sickening and some of the friends that I’ve witnessed doing it is just-

• in Scouse accent -

-it’s so upsetting.

(31:06)

• Crystal puts on Scouse accent also -

Crystal: It’s so upsetting. Why?

• Both drop accents -

Joe: It’s also because I’m quite vocal about- it’s just following government guidelines! It’s just (like-) the right thing-

Crystal: It’s not hard.

Joe: It’s not hard but people think- well it is hard because it’s not nice not being able to go and see your friends on a Saturday night-

Crystal: But you can! You just don’t have to be (like- so-) rubbing on each other and (you know) all that shit.

Joe: Yeah, and it’s difficult I get that it’s difficult to be in the same room as your mates that you haven’t seen in months and not wanna- and it’s just so natural to be like “Heeeey babe!”

Crystal: Mmm.

(31:40)

Joe: (but like) we’re in a pandemic!!! Just don’t do it!

Crystal: People seem to feel and act as if people are going to forget their behaviour and I’m sorry but there’s definitely people that really early on broke guidelines and I (was just like-) -I responded to every story-

Joe: With what?

Crystal: I just went “thats not social distancing”

Joe: Love it.

Crystal: And they’d be like “oh no we’re in a house together” and then you’d go see another friend and they’d say “oh no they were lying to you.” And it’s just like well-

Joe: Oh so there are 30 people in your household? A big old mansion?

(32:11)

Crystal: Is Steve Martin & Bonnie Hunt there? Is this Cheaper By The Dozen 3? Jesus!

Joe: Stop.

Crystal: But we’re gonna go into our last section Joe, and it’s called; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: ‘Somebody To Love’ Joe is a time for you to talk about someone or something that keeps you going, that has kept you going whether it’d be through lockdown or in life, and it can be a source of entertainment, it can be something that you do everyday (erm) it is time for you to talk about someone that makes you happy or something that makes you happy, the floor is yours Joe go for it.

(32:48)

Joe: My HayU account. I mean it’s (you know) it’s an invaluable tool it’s (er) kept me company through lockdown, it’s given me an opportunity to (er) do my homework on the Housewives seasons that I’ve missed (er) and right now just re-familiarising myself with earlier seasons, it’s just such a vault of history, there’s endless content on their for me to devour and I just love it, I really just love Hayu… I again, not sponsored, don’t work for them-

(33:26)

Crystal: Lets make it happen people, lets make it happen, is there a program on Hayu that you find is very underrated and you think it deserves more love than it gets?

Joe: (Erm okay) Real Housewives Of Potomac, notoriously doesn’t get as much love from (erm) the general public.

Crystal: Where is Potomac?

Joe: Washington.

Crystal: Oh wow.

Joe: I think it’s Washington or Maryland, (no yeah) Washington, and it’s very entertaining, it’s a very good television programme to watch.

Crystal: If you were to cast a Real Housewives All-Star season that would be recorded on an island- on an exotic island for a season, lets say 8 episodes, there are 8 Housewives, pick the 8 housewives.

Joe: You know they were gonna do that before lockdown?

Crystal: No way were they gonna do that?!

(34:16)

Joe: Yeah (like), this exact question came up and if I was the person being interviewed it was Tamara on this podcast, getting the question like you were doing then and she was like “They were gonna do that!”

Crystal: Oh my god! I had no idea but do you have an idea of the 8 women that you’d like to see?

Joe: Yeah (er) Ramona, Teresa, will have Nene Leakes, will have Karen Huger, how many have I done?

Crystal: Four I think.

Joe: (Um) Lets go to OC, Shannon Beador, Bev’ Hills… Kim Richards! And…

Crystal: Wow! Kim?

Joe: Kim? I love Kim.

Crystal: Oh that’s very surprising.

(35:06)

Joe: All-Stars baby! All Stars!

Crystal: Ok ok okay!

Joe: And….

Crystal: I would’ve thought you would’ve gone with Lisa Rinna.

Joe: I don’t know I think that Kim is more of an OG, thinking more OG stars that laid the foundations.

Crystal: True, true.

Joe: Iconic moments, but yeah love me some Rinna, a lot of people don’t love Rinna, especially this season.

Crystal: “Owning it!”

Joe: And a couple more, I’m just thinking of Dallas, who am I gonna take from Dallas…

Crystal: Listen you don’t need to be Miss World with your answer.

Joe: We’ll chuck in Carrie Deuber… Nooo I’m not putting Carrie Deuber in All Stars sorry! This means nothing to you I do understand that but lets put (er-)

Crystal: I’m just living for the fact that Ramona Singer & Nene Leakes would be in the same program.

Joe: Yeah I don’t know.

Crystal: That is gold television. I would definitely be one of those people, years & years ago when people would talk about (um) television shows that I loved and adored, (like) I remember I’d watch Sharon Osbourne’s Charm School, A Shot At Love With Tila Tequila, MTV’s Cribs, MTV golden age in the late 90s and early 00s and-

Joe: Someone had SKY!

(36:13)

Crystal: Someone had NTL! And then it just disappeared from my life (like) i was completely, I was completely (er) it was (like) a ghost town when it came to my love for reality television and I started to get into the very difficult topic of Love Island and then stopped watching Love Island and then there’s Drag Race but though thats considered a reality television show it sometimes feels like it’s within it’s own little realm, (um) and to be reintroduced to such eccentric characters with such charisma and, again I do think that every single Real Housewife is a drag queen at heart (like) they are drag queens, it is hysterical and me personally if I was to bring anyone back to a television programme - I feel like you’re gonna know who I’m gonna say but- I just want Jill Zarin to go back to New York, I just think she’s so iconic and as we have quoted in our chats, that moment when she just walks in and goes-

- in a Jill Zarin voice -

“Hiiiiii! Surpriseeeee!!!! Hello Bethenny”

• Joe joins -

Joe: “You pleased to see me?”

(37:22)

Crystal: “You not pleased to see me?!”

Joe: “My god she’s shaking she’s shaking!”

• the impressions stop -

Crystal: And Joe you are just- as much as I’ve harp on about it you are a source of light in a climate of the world that’s pretty shit at the moment and I think that what you do is so joyous, and you are such a lovely-lovely bean of a person and I just think that you’re fabulous! And if you aren’t following JoeGunn60- is it JoeGunn60?

(37:49)

Joe: (Er) I was born in 1990, not 1960.

Crystal: Ooh my god!

Joe: I would love to be in my mid-50s right now, I think that’d be amazing.

Crystal: I think you & I share this old soul within this young body, kind-of life that we lead, and I think it’s definitely a kindred spirit connection that we had when connecting due to our love of Nancy Meyers The Holiday which we don’t go a conversation without quoting; “LA!”

(38:18)

Joe: Definitely, thats one of our (erm), the reasons we bonded- we are old souls (um) yeah like you said, you can’t wait to grow into your 30s, I’ve been in my 30s mentally since I was about 12, so-

Crystal: I blame it all on Monica Gellar!

Joe: Monica Gellar!?

Crystal: Monica Gellar from Friends; as much as I’d love to be Phoebe or Rachel I am Monica Gellar, I watch it and it feels like I’m watching myself.

Joe: I’m Ross’s Mum.

Crystal: “Honey!”

Joe: “Oh for gods sake Judy pick up the sock, pick up the sock, pick up the sock!”

• They both laugh -

Joe: “Oh my god there’s a toe in my kitchen”

(38:57)

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: Well it’s been an absolutely a pleasure to have you on Joe, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast and telling us all about (you know) your joyous platform that you have on Instagram, and on social media, and I do think Meme culture is extremely fascinating and I don’t- I can’t ever see it ending, and (you know) you do such fabulous things and such hysterical things, one thing that always gets me so proud of you is when I have my friends or peers, or people that I look up to and follow, I remember when Mariah Carey popping up on my feed with the little tag @JoeGunn90, how was that for you?

(39:36)

Joe: Eurgh peaked! All downhill from there! Made my life are you kidding?

Crystal: As if.

Joe: (Like) Are you fucking kidding?!

Crystal: Are you kidding!? Mariah Carey knows who Joe Gunn is.

Joe: Well I wouldn’t say that.

Crystal: That is the ticket, oh lets just live the fantasy shall we? No pun intended- but Joe Gunn you are fabulous and I love you so much and thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Joe: I’d just like to say Crystal, the pleasure has been mine, it’s been a pleasure & a privilege to come on this fabulous podcast (um), great questions, great format, love it, so proud of you, love the pod, love everything you’re doing you’re thriving and you’re just such a fab- you’re such a fab person! (Um but er) You can follow me on Instagram @JoeGunn90.

(40:25)

Crystal: And you can support and go and listen to the chronicles of Bare Minimum on all good podcast platforms, Joe Gunn is fabulous and he has some fabulous guests on there including yours truly and it is just- if you want something that’s easy listening, easy self-indulgent listening, then go check out Bare Minimum with Joe Gunn on all good podcast platforms, thank you so much for joining me Joe I love you so much!

Joe: Thank you bye!

Crystal: And that does it for another episode of What Are You Like?! With me Crystal Lubrikunt, once again if you wanna hit up Joe Gunn on Instagram thats J-O-E-G-U-N-N-9-0, @JoeGunn90, and if you wanna hit me up on the old socials that’s C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T, @CrystaLubrikunt on Instagram. I’ll see you in the next one but for now stay camp, stay fabulous, and stay… Stay away from me. Bye!

• soft, mysterious lounge music fades into the background -

Episode Ends

View Details

(00:00)

- funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like… it could go one way or another but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea, wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing, just make sure you’re comfy, relaxed and ready for some fabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:37)

African drag queen extraordinaire, London legend & fabulous activist; I am blessed to be joined by the British Nigerian diva, Son Of A Tutu. An iconic pillar of the U.K. Queer industry, Tutu has been performing all over the country for just under a decade to adoring audiences of all paths of life, but what tickles Tutu’s taste buds? What would they banish into obscurity? Lets find out as we discover what Son Of A Tutu is REALLY like…

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music fades in to the background -

Crystal: Hi Tutu how are you?

Son Of A Tutu: I am well thank you (um), Crystal how are you?

Crystal: I’m doing okay I’ve had a bit of a dodgy stomach this morning, I’ve got a bit of peppermint tea going.

(01:22)

Tutu: Is it something you ate or something that just doesn’t sit well with you and has been percolating away?

Crystal: I think it’s something to do with me just existing Tutu.

• They both laugh -

Tutu: Well that’s not meant to give you a dodgy belly, your hates maybe but not yourself!

• Laughing continues -

Crystal: First & foremost thank you so much for doing me today-

Tutu: Pleasure.

Crystal: -it’s such a pleasure to have you, you are to me such a legend of the U.K. drag scene and you’re something that I grew through the scene always seeing you on the stages, in the pubs, in the clubs and then being able to share those stages with you, especially stages like Bristol Pride; I think we both have a very loyal Bristol audience, and whenever I see you at Bristol Pride I’m always (just) smitten with your incredible talents, and your joy, and your energy so it’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast today Tutu!

(02:13)

Tutu: Well thank you very much, it’s a pleasure to be here or- at least I think it’s gonna be a pleasure but that little opener you gave me made me very-very uncomfortable because this is a-

• Crystal laughs -

Tutu: -compliment adverse zone.

• Tutu laughs -

Crystal: You can not take it can you?!

Tutu: Well not compliments.

- Tutu cackles

Crystal: Ooh no, oh no. It’s a Sunday Tutu!

(02:39)

Tutu: Well I do thank you very much indeed and it does mean a lot and I have to say that yours is one of those voices that I appreciate and absolutely listen to, because (um), you are fair, objective, and also very-very balanced, and unlike a lot of people who do what we do - and I’m not just talking about entertainment, I mean about ‘speak up’ about issues etc etc. - (you-), what I like about you is that you own - like myself - (you know) the mistakes that we’ve had in the past and don’t present ourselves as being perfect, we are all work-in-progress, and we use (and-we-um-), we use that mindset, and knowledge, and responsibility, and ownership of our past & present in order to make things better in the future, as a result your voices is one of the voices I really like, and I love your work, (um) love your work ethic, and yeah! Love everything about you.

(03:42)

Crystal: That means so-so much to me Tutu, thank you so much I feel like I’m the luckiest doll in the world right now thank you.

• Tutu laughs -

But first & foremost Tutu, and this (er) is just an open question, I just want to ask you; what are you like?!

Tutu: I don’t know I hate talking about myself which isn’t the kind-of person you want on a podcast like this but I don’t know-

Crystal: It’s the perfect kind of person I want on this podcast.

Tutu: I guess I’m just, what you see is what you get with me (um), I’m an open book, and I say I’m an open book but I’m a very shy, private person, I’m not actually a person that volunteers myself and my being, and my thoughts unless asked, when asked I give (um) I give honest answers. (Um so) I don’t have anything to hide, but I mostly prefer listening to other people, and other people’s stories (um) and if I have the spotlight, which invariably we do doing the job that we have, I try to light it on other people, shine it on other people, and (you know) their challenges, their wants, their desires, their- whatever it is that they feel comfortable sharing within the spotlight, is for me to help them do that in a way that makes them feel comfortable, happy, and invigorated (um), and even - it’s such strange thing - being on stage, being in that spotlight, having that fabulous gown or the not-so fabulous gown, or the beat face, or the beaten-up face which my make-up sometimes looks like!

• Tutu chuckles -

It is for me (you know-), getting that platform, using it to just (you know) explore other people.

(05:37)

Crystal: Would you consider yourself an extroverted-introvert or an introverted-extrovert?

Tutu: Oo! I don’t know the difference but I am one or maybe both of them, I am- I have both sides and - funnily enough - in my previous life when I was working in the corporate finance world, (there-there-) I don’t know if they still do it these days cos that was many moons ago, there was a (um)… a little tool they used to use called ‘The Myers Briggs Test’ which analyses personalities & preferences. And so it says ‘are you an extrovert, introvert? Are you a judger or an intuitive person?’ (um) I forget the other things but it literally breaks down your profile into four things and one of the things that came up in mine was extroverted-introvert, when you did the test, and I looked at it and looked at everybody and thought “this is not meant to happen”, and (you know) the moderator explained to me that it actually is a thing where you have introverts who have an extroverted side to them and it surprised everybody else in the team as well as they all had me down as an extrovert, because (you know) when you’re in that place, in the job that I had (you know), it played to my extroversion but they didn’t realise that I am actually also a deeply introverted person. (Um) When I am at home I don’t speak to anybody, I like to be alone, if I’m not expecting you? Please do not ring on my doorbell because you won’t (you know) get an answer from me that you will like! Because I have to plan for you being there, I (um) prepare myself for my extroversion, I have to get into that mindset, switch-(um) flip the switch, go out there and do it! And then when that particular event or episode is concluded I invariably retreat back into my introversion, and so I don’t know if that’s an extroverted-introvert or an introverted-extrovert, but it’s one I’m sure you can tell me.

(07:46)

Crystal: I identity as an introverted-extrovert because the extroverted side of me is the drag performer, the entertainer, the person that (um) - unlike everything else in my life - if you were to (just) message me and say “we need someone to fill-in tonight” I’ll go and do it because I feel that drag is my therapy it is the place that I escape to because as entertainers we work in so many people’s play, so it’s difficult for us to find our own sources of play, a lot of our play is involved in our jobs but I am very much- listening to you just then I very much align myself with a lot of your (um), I will say personal boundaries, I’m very protective of my personal life, I’m very protective of my family, and (you know um-) it’s very much Crystal and it’s very much my private persona, are very separate people though they share the same entity, so I very much appreciate your words and I definitely see myself as an introverted-extrovert that takes pride in differentiating the two sides.

(08:52)

Tutu: What I found really interesting is that; when I (um) became an entertainer I find that the demarcations between my extroverted side and my introverted side became a lot more pronounced, and I think it’s because the side of me that is the entertainer that goes out on stage takes 100% of my extroversion so when I am not that person, I am then completely introverted in my private life whereas in the past it was less pronounced the differences, it was all embodied and rolled up into one person and go through - for lack of a better phrase - mood swings where one minute (where you know) I can be up and bright and next minute quite quiet and introverted, however now it’s like ‘night and day’, if I know I’m going out (um) to (you know) either to perform or to do anything in Tutu, in the perform-a-sphere, I know that the extroversion will kick in. And it’s not a chore for me to be that extroverted, it is an innate part of me so it’s almost like a side I flip into though when I come home I revert back to the introversion.

(10:07)

Crystal: It’s energy levels and I think that’s something that lockdown really challenge because - we found that for a short while, for many a long whole and for many the entirety of it - what do we do with the energy that we would use in our extroverted selves, and I think that is why lockdown really took a toll on a lot of people because our energy levels suddenly went from a strict routine, - even as our routines as entertainers are a bit discombobulated - we found ourselves (you know) lost and I think that’s something that (I think) every entertainer that has taken on lockdown and though we are slightly easing out of it something to be proud of is to be able to say that “we got through that” because it’s difficult for us to direct our energy elsewhere being introverted people-

(11:03)

Tutu: Mmm.

Crystal: -and conserving so much energy can sometimes make you feel like you’re going to combust.

• Tutu giggles -

Crystal: And we don’t want that, we don’t want (erm) glitter remains all over the country.

Tutu: Oh no darling, what would CSI do?

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: Oh they would have a couple seasons to sort it out. But Tutu it’s so good to hear from you now we’re going to go into our first section of the interview which is; ‘7 Things’.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

(11:38)

• Tutu sighs heavily -

Crystal: Now ‘7 Things’ is a section where I get a loved one, a friend, a peer to describe my guest in 7 words and we have the fabulous Divine DeCampo from RuPaul’s Drag Race (UK) season 1-

• Tutu sighs & giggles -

Crystal: - and good friend of Tutu, to describe Tutu in 7 words, now we’ll get through this- I know you do find this excruciating and I thank you so much for experiencing this but we’re gonna get through them quick & swiftly for your benefit, are you ready Tutu?

Tutu: I’m as ready as I’ll ever be so go for it baby!

(12:11)

Crystal: The first word that Divina has described you as is; ‘Funny’, do you think you’re a funny person?

Tutu: Oh god, in ways I suppose I can be funny I’m not a natural comic to be honest (um), but I like to see humour in most situations so I suppose that’s where my funny comes from. (Um) Also I like looking at situations - well I don’t like - I just naturally look at situations from a different perspective as most people would because thats what interests me in life, if there’s an area thats been covered by everybody (it’s like)”Oh great!” but then it leaves room for me to see a different perspective and in that I suppose comes out my funny, so (you know) I’m not one of the greatest comics (um) in our industry but I manage to find funny in situations from my own warped perspective.

(13:12)

Crystal: I think it’s really interesting when talking to people that use their voice for important matters that are also comical enter- (like) drag entertainers - do you find it is mandatory to be able to laugh at some scenarios when you should feel like you can laugh?

Tutu: Absolutely, humour is a thing that dispels and takes away the hard unease about very-very hard subjects and if you want to explore something you have to - first of all - diffuse all the things that are scary & monstrous about it and humour is a great way of doing that and once you do that then it’s a great way to explore it, and through that (um) process of diffusing (you know) the scary about it you can then get (er) a close-up look at it and figure out (you know) what needs to be fixed - if anything - and how to go about doing it.

(14:16)

Crystal: We’re gonna go straight to the second word; the second word Divina DeCampo has used to describe Tutu as is; ‘Questioning’.

• Tutu cackles -

Tutu: My favourite question as a kid was always “Why?” and whenever anyone told me anything it was always “Why? Why? Why?” and I think I drove all the adults in my childhood absolutely bonkers.

Crystal: Good.

Tutu: And because of my “Why’s, why’s, why’s, why’s, why’s?” I don’t- I can’t take credit for it, it’s just something that is within me (um) to just- I like connecting the dots and anything thats a dangling random that doesn’t fit in with something or doesn’t (you know) seem to have a correlation, I can’t leave there- I can’t leave it hanging or I will not be satisfied with answers like “It’s just dangling because that’s the way it has to be” My question will always be “but why?” And until I can figure out a ‘Why?’ to it-it will absolutely bug me to death which is why I suppose I have that innate questioning nature. Divina is right I do like to question everything, especially when it comes to (you know) why things aren’t equal for everybody or why things aren’t fair? And I will always ask “But why?” What can we do in order to make it fair? I don’t believe that any body or any group of bodies, or any group of people has all the right answers or has all the right righteousness (on their-on their-) on their side, but then we all have to question (you know), what are the things that are wrong within and then try and figure out a way to move beyond and redeem that… I suppose that’s why I’m questioning.

(16:20)

Crystal: Now the third word that Divina DeCampo has used is; ‘Kind’.

• Tutu hysterically laughs -

Tutu: Sorry that’s my nervous laugh, whenever anyone says anything nice about me I either laugh or have a meltdown.

Crystal: I share that 100%, (its-) for me it’s if someone compliments I will insult myself straight away, straight away. I think- you’re clearly a very kind person as someone that’s (um) watched you and (er) always looked up to you and seen your stances on - as you just said - about questioning (um), on equality, and in the drag world, especially in the commercial drag world you’re very much are very prominent on the London scene that you are working a lot with (er) those that are of the RuPaul’s Drag Race entity, and it’s so amazing to have you rub shoulders and work with so many of those people and be affiliated somewhat with that brand and have the voice that you have, I think that’s very important and it takes someone that is very kind to have the consideration of others.

(17:31)

Tutu: Well I thank you for that, I-I just believe that (you know) we could all do with a bit more kindness, I mean… I like people even though I’m a introverted-bit of a hermit, I like people, I like watching people, I like to see (you know) people grow and I like to see them flourish, and I like to see- the joy that comes out of (you know) people just being their good selves and being their real selves and hitting their potentials as people, and I suppose that’s where the kindness comes from, I also believe in (you know) fairness and that we all have a responsibility to look after each other, to have each other’s backs and when you have a relative strength in one area of life whether it be beauty, intelligence, wealth, knowledge, whatever it is - that you have a responsibility to use that strength to uplift people who have a relative disadvantage in that area. Nobody has it all, we all have relative advantages in one area and another, as opposed to what drives me mad is when people use that relative advantage that they have to suppress people who have a disadvantage in order to boost their own ego and their own prominence, I say “No” just use it to uplift them cos I get joy & pleasure from seeing everybody just get along and helping each other. Have my back and I’ll have yours, I suppose thats where the kindness comes from and I must say that; (you know) one of the greatest compliments that anybody can (um) pay me is to say “Kindness” cos I really treasure kindness, I don’t care if you say I’m talented which I ain’t, I don’t care if you say i’m “this”, I’m “that”, “beautiful” which I ain’t, “rich” which I ain’t, but tell me I’m “kindness” and you just have my- spirit just soars cos that’s just one of the things that I-I am and I treasure.

(19:43)

Crystal: And it’s priceless.

Tutu: It’s priceless, it is priceless treasure.

Crystal: It’s ever-flowing as well and I think that’s- I think we (um) I think a lot of people crave the opposite of those that is materialistic, people crave emotion, and they don’t realise it- people crave that kindness and crave that authenticity, and you definitely bring that! Which leads me to the fourth word - which you’ve already just said - and it’s; ‘Joy’.

• Tutu shrieks -

Tutu: I love joy; I just joy is just- (you know) Joy is happiness, (um-hmph) I’ve always maintained, and always believed and lived my life by the principle that there’s only one goal in life and that goal is to be happy, (um) to find your happiness, it has a caveat and the caveat being that as long as (in the pursuit of you finding your-) in the pursuit of you finding your happiness you do not go out of your way to deprive somebody else of theirs! Then you are doing a good job because so many people do that, they love to (like) take from others, they like to encroach on other people’s joy they like to do that and so that happiness (um) is something that (you know), I love and I love to see in others, and I love to use the platform that we have as an entertainer to actually bring joy to other people. There’s nothing more satisfying than (you know) being on a stage and seeing people respond (um) to a joyous energy, I absolutely love that, to see the joy in people’s faces even if it you just say something and it brings joy, it is it’s own reward just that (you know) minute, or fraction, or two minutes of seeing that joy come out from them, thats where I get my joy from, in seeing the joy in other people and being able to use whatever platform I have to (you know) help bring that out or to help amplify it, or to help stimulate it.

(21:49)

Crystal: It is again, priceless to be on a stage and when we use our voice (and), when we are performing at a show and we either (just) give people some words of love or some words of wisdom that have helped us-

Tutu: Mmm.

Crystal: -or we talk about inclusivity, or you look at everyone in the room and say “everyone can do drag” (like) you see people’s faces get that lightbulb because though they know that they can they need someone (just) to give them a little bit of a mental shove in the right direction-

Tutu: Mmhm.

(22:18)

Crystal: - (it’s also so-) again, it’s so joyous and it (just) comes from a place of kindness, and it comes from a place of (just) wanting everyone to experience joy & kindness because - again - it is free! And it is priceless… One, two, three, four- the fifth word!

Tutu: Oh did she run out of nice things to say about me did she?!

• They both laugh -

Crystal: The fifth word that we have is; ‘Complex.’

Tutu: How did she know that?

• Tutu laughs -

Crystal: Listen we all have an identity crisis, we’re all very complex people.

• Tutu continues to laugh -

Tutu: Ooh Divina DeCampo we’re gonna have to have words, (um) I’m a mess okay?

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: Me too.

(23:00)

Tutu: I am one big giant mess, I am complex, do you know what this feels like therapy do you charge for this?

Crystal: I don’t but I am glad that it feels like that.

Tutu: It feels like therapy, yeah, we’re all complex (I mean-we are- you know), every human being is a cluster of millions and billions of Midi-chlorians, no sorry, DNA cells -

- Tutu chuckles -

Tutu: (-and so) And in that when all those come together they form a complex human being. (I-) Maybe it’s because I’m an extroverted-introvert, manic depressive? I don’t know, (I-I-) I am complex, I like looking at things from a different perspective, (I-eurgh-) I can be moody due to all the aforementioned, (um- I do-) I don’t know, I don’t wanna say my background or experience (um) is such that it was (um) trickier than anybody else and so therefore (um) it made me more complex than others but we are our experience, and so (you know) my background is very, very complex in someway.

(24:21)

Crystal: Because you used to live in (er) was it Nigeria?

Tutu: Yeah well I was born British and even when born British (um) back then in the 60s & 70s, the (um) commonwealth immigrants, the young ones that came over then (um) who were young & studying, and had children (um), the most affordable form of childcare for them back in the day, was a system of voluntarily putting your kids into foster care and the phrase- the term that was use for it was ‘Farming’, as in they had to farm out their children, and- so it wasn’t something that was due to Social Services coming in and (you know), taking your kids off you but if you opened the newspapers back then and look in the Classified section you’d see people advertising to foster (um) children, (you know) you’d drop your children off there, they’d live with them and then you’d pay them a fee for (you know), the (um) purpose of doing that- somebody actually released a film a couple of years ago called Farming, that (um) explores that particular issue which (I-um-) I haven’t watched because I’m still resisting watching it cos it’ll bring back memories of that period of time, and so during that period of time I lived with - at different times - three separate families all of whom were white caucasian and so, it wasn’t until my parents were moving back to Nigeria when I was about 8 & a half years old, that for the first time I went to live with them, so my entire background up until 8 - and in those very-very key formative years - were through the lense of somebody completely separated from their own culture (um) and so I was brought up for those first 8 years White, in White culture and then moved to Africa to live with a Black family and so that brought it’s own degrees of complexity (um) because it took a while for me to actually (you know), accept my parents as parents, not in name but in spirit because everything that they did or said was very alien to me, and I didn’t realise how pronounced it was until there was a day I saw one of my sisters eating something and my niece went up to her and took the thing that she was eating out of her hand, and then took a bite of it and then gave it back, and that was very-very significant for me, because it took years of me for me to be able to eat something that my mother had eaten that you know like as kids you don’t eat what somebody else has eaten you know? You get germs etc. etc, but when it’s family you don’t have that barrier, but I had been so far removed from my own family that it was a chore for me to do and so all of those things and (I-I-) then the journey beyond that point (you know), then growing up being gay in a country that (you know) will kill you if they realise that you’re gay, (you know) being an extroverted-introvert, (um) on top of all that having the bad experience of doing the Farming because that was a horror especially with the last family that I lived with, that was an absolute horror for me which then exacerbated my (um) own sense of going inwards to protect myself and building up walls (um), and so all of that led to (you know) the mess that you have speaking to you today.

(28:11)

Crystal: so “Yes Divina I am complex”

• Tutu cackles -

Tutu: Shut up Divina you know too much!

Crystal: But what a journey, what a journey and what a story (like) it’s something to be so proud of and you clearly wear your heart on your sleeve as well it’s so- (it’s just) it’s just awesome.

Tutu: Well I thank you very much, you know i’d be very proud of it if it was anything of my own doing but I can’t take credit for it, we are who we are.

(28:39)

Crystal: 100%, and the sixth word - which I think is very-very true - the sixth word that Divina DeCampo has described Son Of A Tutu is; ‘Insightful’.

Tutu: I-I think I am? (I-I-)… (It’s prob-hmm), again my nature is ‘sit back and watch’ I believe, I like to see other people at play so I’m a great observer, I’m one of life’s great observers (um), there’s also that (um) saying that “70% of communication is listening” and I’m an active listener, I like to sit back and listen - not just at what people say but- to everything that’s going on around me and when you do that, when you spend less of your energy talking - even though I CAN TALK! As people know because sometimes as people know sometimes I say too much but - I spend a lot more time than I do expressing, I spend a lot more time observing and actually taking things in and like I said before; I don’t like to see dangling bits, I like to connect the dots ‘Why is this thing this way?’ and I suppose that provides insight.

(29:46)

Crystal: I think a lot of White performers find you insightful because you have been one of very few prominent Black performers in the drag industry, specifically the Trad drag industry, the pub circuit and the Pride circuit, (you are-) I do find that you are (um) for lack of a better word; victim to tokenism a lot and I think people really listen to your words and really listen to your perspective of things because the way that you deliver it is in a way thats so digestible for even the most ignorant people, and think thats why I think Divina’s partly used the word ‘Insightful’ because you’ve been doing your thing amidst so many different changes through time.

(30:27)

Tutu: I can accept that actually, I think that’s a very-very good way of actually looking at it. I think the fact that I came to drag relatively late helps as I started my drag in my 40s, whereas I should’ve start it in my 20s- 20 years earlier, and as a result haven’t lived a different life and then had (you know), all that experience, those life experiences, and then come into drag as a drag baby, whereas I wasn’t a drag baby I was (you know) advanced middle age! So to speak! I think that helped, and also like I mentioned before I believe that we all should (you know) have each other’s backs and that does include supporting each other’s learnings, and so I’m less prone to be judgemental (you know-um), point a finger, scream, shout etc etc, even though I think that there is a place for that, (um) people who are built to do that have every right to go out and do that - not just every right, responsibility to do that, (um) my DNA however is one of building, and nurturing, and helping people to learn, grow and moving things along, like in all (um) major reconstruction endeavours I always say; first of all you need the bulldozers to go in and clear away the bad, the things that are out of date, the things that (you know) need to be taken down, and when they do that then it gives space for the builders to then come in and then build the new, and as a result we all have our parts to play in accordance with our DNA and my DNA is one of the builders - not necessarily the bulldozers - and I like teaching, I like helping people and to help people through learning, and supporting their learning is my role in life and I know who I am to that extent and so I embrace it and go with it.

(32:45)

Crystal: I find it really interesting as someone who started drag when they were 18, as time has gone on it’s really interesting that age really is non-existent when it comes to drag because I have met people that have just started drag and they’re in their mid-to-late 40s yet they feel like a 16 year old.

Tutu: Absolutely.

Crystal: It’s all about spirit

Tutu: It’s all about spirit and something that you know you want to do, something that’s innate and you have to do it, and (you know) even if you come to your 40s or 50s - as I’m sure some people will - as long as you follow your heart- yeah it may seem a bit anachronistic because all the peers-all your peers - I suppose - in your class, (you know) you are the class of 2020 are probably people young enough to be your child-your children, (you know) it’s adult education in different ways so you just have to go with it but thats probably why I ended up in what you refer to as; the Trad scene, and the Trad drag scene in that (you know) the drag of my generation is the traditional drag circuit and so thats probably why I ended up there, but then because I had that whole life experience that I went off and did other things in my youth I have a different perspective to many of the others who went straight into it from when they were young and so my journey in to drag has been- (you know) has it’s own uniqueness and that is reflected in (kind of) the queen that I am I suppose.

(34:27)

Crystal: I definitely think that you are one of the most versatile queens on the scene so I don’t want to pigeon-hole you into the Trad drag circuit, but you definitely are prominent on the Trad drag circuit, you’re one of the names- you’re a household name in that circuit because it’s something that I believe I share with you is that we definitely- (er) we’re like switch-hitters we work in different circuits, (we can-) we can adapt ourselves to different shows for example you do (um) stuff down at Heaven which not a lot of people do, you do the pubs, the clubs but you also do these amazing benefits and Pride’s, you really have you- you have your fingers in lots of lovely, delicious pies.

(35:06)

Tutu: (I-I-) I love that and I love that aspect, the fact that I can do that- you’re absolutely right I am most prominent on the Trad scene but then (you know) I do (you know), Duckie one week, (um you know) doing a little theatre thing another week, Edinburgh Fringe Festival one week etc etc. I always say that I will go anywhere that is open to listening to what I have to say and I don’t care (um you know) what kind of sector, what kind of sub-genre it is, I am there if they want me, (um) I’ve been around enough of them to know that they all have (um) the things that are brilliant about them and they all have the things that I absolutely loathe about them, (um) in all sectors across the board, and one of the things I hate is is when people one side think that (you know) the people on the other side is not doing something particularly well or doing it correctly, or doing it how it should be, or just (you know) dismisses due to a lack of understanding of what they’re doing (you know), there’s good and bad in all sides and I just like working in all of them.

(36:24)

Crystal: And that’s the way to do it, that is the way to do it. Now I’ve saved this last word because I find it the most entertaining, because I’ve seen it myself being present at (er) Porn Idol in Heaven, the last word that Divina DeCampo has used to describe Son Of A Tutu is; ‘Naughty.’

• Tutu shrieks with laughter as Crystal chuckles -

Tutu: I’m a good girl I am! I’m a good girl.

Crystal: You bloody aren’t I’ve seen you on that microphone!

• Tutu continues to cackle -

Tutu: But yes, (I am-) I am a bit saucy I suppose but why not? I mean (you know) sex is one of those things or sexual situations is one of those things that you gotta laugh at it in order to embrace it so yeah I’m naughty!

(37:06)

Crystal: I find the seriousness sometimes - and when I say “seriousness” I mean (like) the… The somewhat role-playing in people’s- being impacted by Hollywood and film, and television with what sex should be, sex needs to have a chunk of humour involved with it.

Tutu: The wonderful Michael Twaits - who I hope you’re gonna do one of these things with-

Crystal: Love Michael.

Tutu: (-Has a) Said something once when they were (um) I think judging (um) a heat of Drag Idol, and it’s something she’d read in a book and (you know) if you know Mr. Michael Twaits she loves to read a book or two!

• Tutu chuckles -

(37:50)

Crystal: She likes to read a queen or two as well.

• Tutu cackles -

Tutu: Don’t I know it! And (um) he said; “the thing to do with drag is to-“ (um) take a - I’m paraphrasing now cos I don’t know of the exact words she used - is to take a serious topic and make it ridiculous? Or take a ridiculous topic and make it serious, and within that if you use that framework you can do some great work in art and I really loved the way she said that (you know), take a serious subject and just make it funny & frivolous, and taking (you know) something that’s frivolous and turn it all serious & dark and I absolutely love that, and I suppose the same goes with sex.

(38:40)

Crystal: Absolutely, well what a lovely end to our ‘7 Things’, the 7 things are over Tutu!

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: Now we’re going to go on to our next section which is called; ‘True Love’.

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

(38:53)

Crystal: Now ’True Love’ Tutu, is (basically) a section where tell me something that you have always been in love with throughout your entire life, that you still love just as much today, is there something you can think of that resonates with-

Tutu: Oh music, music I- (you know) love music and funnily enough - even though I’m terrible at it but it has been the bane of my life - singing! I am an absolutely atrocious singer I can barely hold a tune in a bucket but I’ve never been able to stop singing, never been able to stop singing. As a kid, I remember being in school once and I remember we doing something in the performance class and they were recording it, and they kept saying; “There’s a voice on this recording that’s distorting” and all of sudden they found out it was me-

(39:50)

Crystal: Oh my god!

Tutu: - so they moved me to the middle of the class, so that it wouldn’t pick up so loudly on the microphone, tried it again, they could still hear me, moved me back further, could still here me- by this point I was out of the room they-

• Tutu & Crystal cackle -

(40:10)

Crystal: Oh my god.

Tutu: I always used to characterise my singing as being loud & unpleasant, however! Because (you know) it’s been one of my greatest passions in life I’ve always believe that anybody can sing as long as you have the equipment to do it, (um) and (you-) you just have to learn how to use that equipment, (now-) like any other sphere of life and (you know) physiology, some people were innately born knowing how to use their equipment, to do it and produce a pleasant sound and then some of us have to work like dogs.

(41:00)

Crystal: Work like dogs.

Tutu: Work like dogs, and (I-) my work - as in, I didn’t actually start having my first singing lesson - didn’t happen until I was in my mid-30s and my first teacher said to me “It’s gonna take about 20 years to make a pleasant sound” - I went “Why would you say something horrible like that?!”, He went; “Because we have 30 years of bad habits to get rid of.” And I stood out and was in protest but he was absolutely right, he was absolutely right because (you know) the younger you start learning the quicker it is because you don’t have bad habits to get rid of whereas (you know), probably because I was always told to “Shut up!” And being the belligerent person that I was, didn’t shut up I always continued singing, I didn’t take that step of actually doing something about it until I was in my mid-30s. Now I have never been a Whitney Houston-

• Tutu laughs -

(41:58)

Tutu: - (um) but I don’t feel that I make a loud, unpleasant sound anymore but I’m still not gonna be great but I am a million miles better than I ever was.

Crystal: I’m exactly the same and I think singing - half of it is selling it, half of it is selling it because as long as you’re happy and you’re enjoying it yourself, that’s half the job done.

(42:21)

Tutu: You’re absolutely right actually and the reason I’ve got away with being a non-lipsyncing drag queen - as in one that sings in my work - for almost 10 years now despite not being a great vocalist is the fact that even though I did not know how to sing I knew how to tell a story and connect, and so- now I’m not Bob Dylan by any stretch of the imagination but Bob Dylan himself can’t sing but he was a great poet and you listened to every word he said, and so as long as you can connec- singing is a form of expression, it’s just a form of expressio- and as long as you know how to express - obviously the more skilled you are at it the better the expression - but as long as you can imbue it with truth & honesty and people can understand what you’re saying, then you can get away with murder, which I have.

(43:12)

Crystal: Oh yes-

• Tutu laughs -

Crystal: - always… Always, always, always. (I just-) I think what comes with drag with singing is we can get away with murder and it’s even better if just before the song you go “Get ready for a live murder on this stage!” And you go and try and attempt to sing (you know) something by Adele or Beyonce and it’s just- it’s just entertaining regardless.

(43:35)

Tutu: But you can carry that off as well because you’re a great dancer and let me tell you Tutu don’t dance.

• Tutu laughs -

Crystal: Tutu moves.

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: And on that note Tutu we’re gonna take a little break.

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet!Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(44:35)

Crystal: And now Tutu we’re going to go straight into our next section which is called; ‘Topic Of Choice’.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

Crystal: Now ‘Topic Of Choice’ is a time for you to talk- well I time for us to have a discussion about anything that you wish to talk about whether it is something serious, something silly, maybe it is a film you’ve watched, a television show you enjoy, anything you want or wish to, lets talk about it. Do you have something in mind today?

(45:04)

Tutu: Oh my god I have several things I could talk about but then we don’t have that much time, I could talk for days about Game Of Thrones, I could talk for days about Whitney Houston or Bette Davis, I could talk for days about RuPaul’s Drag Race but I feel I’ll just have to choose one and the one I’m gonna choose is the (um) current civil rights movement known as Black Lives Matter.

(45:28)

Crystal: What a movement and what a day it is to be alive.

Tutu: I love how you put that because one of the things I say is that (you know); there’s something special about reading about history and always being part of it, being in the eye of the storm of history, and thats what’s happening now, we’ve all read about The Stonewall Riots and The Gay Liberation Movement, we’ve all (read-er-) heard about (you know) emancipation of slavery, or the decolonisation of (you know) most of the world, we’ve all read about the civil rights movements of the 60s & 70s, but now we are actually writing the stories for the future and it’s so amazing to be part of that in a time where the (health-) public health conditions would suggest that we shouldn’t be but despite that we’re going out there and this is happening, I just think it’s incredible.

(46:30)

Crystal: And doing so safely!

Tutu: Absolutely, doing so safely but also factoring in the fact that yes there is harm (um) and risk associated with going out and fighting whether you’re doing it on the street or doing it behind your computer, at this point in time in this present climate, but then the risk of not doing it in a moment that is right for doing it are far more greater than the lives you save from remaining silent, too much has gone on for too long that has been wrong, that has been bad and- do you know what? (You know) I’m in my 50s (um), this is a movement that has been spear-headed by the millennials but then every millennial of every generation - whether they’re called millennial or not which we- I wasn’t when I was that age - we all have a fight of that generation, my generation fought the statutory (um) bigotry of (you know) you can’t work here if you’re gay or you can’t this if you’re Black etc etc and then when our generation wrapped up the world and a new generation came along and we handed that world over to our kids - as in the next generation - they take it, they look at it and went “Thank you: - some of them don’t say thank you some of them say “Oh my god you’ve messed all of this up! How did you let this happen? Here’s what we’re going to correct cos this is the fight of our generation.” And each successive generation when they inherit that mantle, takes it a step further, and the generation that gave it to them feels a sense of; “No you can’t do that! Thats not wrong please stop criticising us, that was alright, this is how we’ve always done it.” But then the new generation - as it’s there world - will always fight that as eventually the fight that they’re fighting to the extent that is good & right will always prevail, and so I’ve just loved-loved-loved-loved- some of the times & tones jar with me because “Oh thats not my nature” but then I will not stand in the way of progress because I know that it’s progress that needs to happen.

(48:57)

Crystal: I think it’s incredible to think about when my generation - that is millennial - will be older and will be looked after by generation- I think it’s ‘Generation Z’ or ‘X’? I’m not sure but - I find it very exciting.

Tutu: You’ll get it too, your generation will get it too, that new generation that will succeed you will come up and say; “Whats all this?” and “Whats all that?” and they will find the things that (you know) are wrong that we either do not see right now or do not have the bandwidth to tackle because you’re so busy dealing with these other demons that you’re slaying and then they will take that on and they will do that as well. It’s change and you’ve got to remember there’s always phases of change; the first phase of change is denial, then the second is resistance, then the third phase I think is (umm errr-) I forget the correct word for it but it is when you first look at it and then you reflect, and then you start to actually make the change and then you have a commitment where it embeds in, and so everything that I’ve say now people say “No you can’t do this” or “You can’t say anything, anymore, anyday-” blah, blah, blah, blah, I look at it and go “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah” If you look at the life cycle of change, everything you’re saying is predicted, I know what this is this is the denial phase or the resistance change but after that - thats the word - exploration is the third phase where you then explore and look at it and try to make the change and then you move into to commitment where you move forward and that change becomes the new.

(50:40)

Crystal: Well I look at people like Greta Thunberg… And her stance and her being so young, and being a part of - from my perspective - the next generation or maybe even the next-next generation, and even her energy and her words and how impactful and (um) inspiring she’s been it’s so tremendous and I feel be that may be the case when our children’s children (um) confront us for the issues of the world I feel like it’ll mostly be environmental?

(51:15)

Tutu: Mm it will be environmental, or God knows what it will be but the reason our activists are getting younger, and younger, and younger, (um) and I didn’t read this anywhere but as I said I like to connect the dots; is that when I look at my generation, a large part of my generation forgot how to bring up kids, as in; kids were pretty much left to their our devices and as a result the kids when one of two ways, they either went completely feral because they were not being brought up, or they brought themselves up and had to learn to become adults very, very young and as a result (you know) the young now - far more earlier than they have in previous generations - are the ones (you know) telling the parents what to do and actually telling them whats right and whats wrong because they had to learn very, very, very quickly and you see that dynamic of not bringing the kids up in so many spheres of life be it from education to educate- (you know) you look at people (you know), kicking off at immigrants “for taking all the jobs” etc etc and I go “Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on” When I was young and - like I said before - I am a kid of the commonwealth students who came over then who were at a clear social economic disadvantage to their White counterparts (um) because they were far left behind in technological advancement, (um) Our parents made it mandatory, there was absolutely no question about it, you HAD to get an education, you were not left to decide as a kid on your own, you HAD to get an education, and the repercussion of that is that you now have a (you know) whole generation of (um) second, third, (um, um) generation immigrants who are very well equipped, very well educated, doing jobs- professional jobs - and then a lot of our White counterparts who - not only parenting - but also successive governments had failed to invest and own their training & development are now without jobs in a complete wasteland when it comes to opportunity don’t know what to do and then demagogues come a long who then pray on that already bad, sad situation as opposed to helping them actually get through that they then (you know) start (you know) talking about racism and fear of immigrants etc etc and it’s not that, lets actually take a better and a more active role in training & developing our youth and the ones that even aren’t young, train & develop so that they then have the skills to go out and do this etc etc and so I just think - in the west especially - my generation forgot, we forgot how to parent and bring up kids.

(54:40)

Crystal: It’s so important because (you know-) your words there saying that (um) “young generations but also older ones” because it is never too late it is never too late to learn anything, it’s never too late to gain a more open-minded perspective in so many different areas and it’s not only in belief, in kindness, in acceptance and progress, but also in the world of (you know) jobs, and parenting, and analysing where things may have gone a bit pear-shaped, it’s so important to have that (um) open-mindedness in that area because everything has been brought up to think that it is their way or the highway.

(55:19)

Tutu: Absolutely and in their defence I have to recognise the fact that we all have a different varying of degrees of capacity to (um) accept and go with change, (um) just like my singing teacher said “it’s gonna take you 20 years to become a decent singer cos we have 30 years worth of bad habits to get rid of” When you’ve been conditioned in a particular way (um), that this is the way to do things it’s hard for people - especially an older generation - if they are risk-adverse and change-resistant in order to make that change which is why it is very important that (you know) people and governments who have a responibility to help people through that do so responsibly with a dedication to see it though no matter how long that takes instead of praying of the fears for their own political gain.

Crystal: Tutu for prime minister!

Tutu: Never!

• Tutu & Crystal cackle -

(56:27)

Tutu: I am too lazy and too much of an introvert to go out there and be a politician, (you know) I know my role in life on my own, and my own shortcomings, I could never be a politician.

Crystal: Now we’re gonna move on to one of my favourite sections, it goes straight after ’Topic Of Choice’, it is; ‘Pet Peeves’.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

(56:55)

Crystal: Now in this section Tutu I am opening up the floor, we can talk about anything that’s grinding your gears at the moment from something that’s super small to (maybe) a big issue, anything that’s really pissing you off or annoying the hell out of you, lets talk about it.

Tutu: Okay number one; Zoom- just kidding.

• Tutu & Crystal cackle -

Crystal: You know what, I got through the entirety of lockdown without doing a single Zoom quiz.

• Tutu continues to cackle -

Tutu: I haven’t done a Zoom quiz, I’ve done events but I haven’t done Zoom quizzes.

Crystal: Aw I don’t know how you’ve done it, well you’ve done it for money but yeah-

• Tutu & Crystal chuckle -

Tutu: I’m a Zoom whore yes I am.

Crystal: You know what we are babe? We’re fucking Zoom destroyers aren’t we.

• Tutu cackles -

(57:43)

Tutu: ‘Pet Peeves’, which one can I talk about- I know what I wanna talk about and it really grinds my gears, people-

• Tutu sniggers -

Tutu: -people are gonna hate me for this- people who get stuck overseas due to quarantine rules-

Crystal: OH MY GOD.

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: What made Becky think she deserved a fucking holiday?!

• Tutu continues to cackle -

Crystal: (They’re all-I just don’t-) Oh I’m so with you, I am so glad you’ve said this, I’ve been thinking about this so much and it’s literally been - as far as we are aware - it’s literally been British people popping over to Spain, Greece (you know), being like; “Oh we’re going over for a week” and they pop back and they just shrug their shoulders at the fact that they’ve gone back into quarantine.

(58:30)

Tutu: Oh they start moaning and blah-blah (and-), you turn on the evening news and it’s (like) “there’s a rush to get people home” and I go; What the hell are they doing there in the first place!? Why the HELL did they go overseas in a pandemic!?

Crystal: D’ya know what Tutu? Do you what really makes me want to go to Disneyland Paris? A pandemic, you know-

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: -it really just (you know) really makes me wanna go see Mickey Mouse in a mask.

Tutu: Or to WaterWorld or whatever it’s called and get in the swimming pool.

Crystal: D’ya know what really makes me wanna go and see a drag show at Jackie O’s in Mykonos, a pandemic, a pandemic.

• Tutu continues to cackle -

Crystal: I’m so glad you said this, I’ve wanted to get this out of my system.

(59:12)

Tutu: Oh my god it has been driving me absolutely mad, the people that moan online about “Argh can’t go on my holiday this year!”

Crystal: Explore the U.K! We’ve got some beautiful spots-

Tutu: Exactly!

Crystal: I’m dying to go to Cornwall!

Tutu: Exactly! It’s like “Oh my god” If you have the money for a holiday? Stay-cation baby, (there’s-) people come from all over the world to explore these-our lands, and when would you get another opportunity where by the conditions for you exploring your own land are so- (you know) so good and (you know) just go out and explore! Go Cornwall! Go Scunthorpe! Go anywhere!

Crystal: Anywhere!

Tutu: Just go somewhere!

(59:56)

Crystal: (It’s just-) It’s mind-blowing that people just think that- and also save the money and spend it (like-) in a years time, go on a big holiday next Christmas, whenever we’re gonna be able to but (just-) Scotland, Wales, Cornwall… High Wycombe!

• Tutu & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: But we’re going to go into one of our last sections Tutu which is; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: Tutu ‘Somebody To Love’ is a section where we dedicate the conversation to someone that has kept you going (er) this year, throughout lockdown, or just in general someone that entertains you, that you enjoy, (um) someone- whether it’d be a musician, an artist or an entertainer, or a person- or a personal (um) friend, or loved one in your life, (lets just-) it’s a time for you to (talk-) talk about them and lift them up, and (you know) praise them.

(1:00:50)

Tutu: Oh wow, I think I’ll have to go for my (um), my mother of choice, so to speak, somebody that has been my best friend for- Oh god twenty five or so years, the lovely Michael Topping, (um) Michael Topping (um) has now retired to Blackpool because (er) I think two or three years ago (um) he had a stroke (um) which meant that he had to retire from (you know) our world of entertainment, but before that he was known for being one half of a duo called Topping & Butch.

(1:01:27)

Crystal: Oh my goodness.

Tutu: And before that he used to-

Crystal: Oh my god!

Tutu: Are you- do you remember or had you forgotten?

Crystal: (I think-) Are they normally dressed in er-

Tutu: Rubber.

Crystal: Oh my god! Of course! I just had the biggest flashback, they were at my very-very first - I used to be in a drag troupe with Lydia L’Scabies & Rococo Chanel and one of our prizes at Pride’s Got Talent in Brighton 2013 was to be at the Brighton Pride Cabaret Stage and they were there and they would always be performing in Brighton (er) whether it’d be (you know) Legends, Queens Arms, and I’d see them every now and then, and you just completely taken me back.

(1:02:06)

Tutu: Yep!

Crystal: Legends, absolutely legends!

Tutu: Yup! I’m friendly with both of them but Michael - as in Michael Topping - (um) has been my drag mother since, not drag mother but Gay mother- this is long before I did drag- from (I suppose) the early 90s when we first met (um) in the back room at The Two Brewers.

Crystal: Ahhh…

Tutu: (And um-) Haha I know! And before he did Topping & Butch he was (um) he used to work with Dave Lynn and he & Dave Lynn had a double act called ‘Dave Lynn & Malitza’ where (um) he used to be Malitza in drag, and then before that he had done quite a few other things before that as well working with Hinge & Brackett etc etc, his life story has been (um) parallels and mirrors of the progression of drag entertainment in the U.K I suppose from the 60s onwards, and (you know), he’s in his house in Blackpool- the house he grew up in that he inherited when his mother passed, that was quite a few years ago (um), and so (you know) even when I lived in America (um) late 90s-2000s, he was one person I would always speak to at least once a week on the telephone and so he’s just always been my special friend for life in the most significant, and the most supportive relationship in life and as a best friend (you know) he helped me see life - especially from coming from a community that did not offer any kind of support or guidance for a young, Black, Gay man, (um) he was there- not for telling me how to do things but just for being an example and I’d look up to him and I’d see how he did things and through that I got to find my own self, and (you know) even now keeping him at home during lockdown was a challenge because he wanted to go out on his little scooter or have people come over and- (you know) endless days of shouting at him having him realise that he’s within the most vulnerable group, that he mustn’t do this but (you know), it’s just been a joy - not just through lockdown - but through my entire adulthood of knowing that man.

(1:04:25)

Crystal: What a wonderful-wonderful story, that is- throughout this entire interview there’s been points where I forget that I’m interviewing you and I’m just sat listening to you and you… You are (just), you embody so much that I look up to and want to be and that story alone with (er) Topping & Butch, Michael Topping, (just-) it’s again when you first said those names it took me back and it resorted me back to being that young Queer kid, I remember going in to G-A-Y Heaven as an 18 year old, newly Gay (um) little idiot and going into the clubroom and - I still have the picture, it’s not on my phone but it’s definitely on this computer - and the first drag queen I met was Myra Dubois.

(1:05:15)

Tutu: Ah!

• Tutu laughs -

Crystal: I’m just gonna say the make-up hasn’t changed much.

• Tutu cackles -

Tutu: But the mouth hasn’t either!

Crystal: Oh no but it takes me back to those times that you really do have to respect & appreciate where you came from and whose been with you and whose never let you go - I don’t like to say ‘never let you down’ because we’re humans, we make mistakes - but people that have never let you go and always stuck by you and been there and when you spoke about Michael Topping it makes me think about Cherry Liquor and she’s one of my bestest friends on this entire planet and you think about that kindred spirit connection and it all trickles down to the world of Queerness and cabaret, and drag and it’s part of our passion as Son Of A Tutu & Crystal Lubrikunt, that when we are faced with oppression and exclusivity (it-it’s kind of) it’s our anger and our frustration comes from a place where that passion is rooted because you want everyone to share that passion, and share that connection, and that (you know) - it doesn’t take much, and you are someone that embodies so much love, joy, kindness & naughtiness!

(1:06:35)

• Tutu giggles -

Tutu: Stop it.

Crystal: And I’m so appreciative of everything that you do and I’m so thrilled to be able to know you and to have worked with you and will work with you, and I just think that you’re fucking incredible Son Of A Tutu.

Tutu: And I say the same about you to; you just give me joy, you give me life and I just love the uniqueness of your voice, really I love it- I love unique voices- I love all voices but unique ones really stand out more to me because it’s something nobody else-everybody else isn’t saying or in a way everybody else isn’t saying it, and I thank you for that… Talking of Myra Dubois; (um) Okay we’re both going to be in a film that’s going to get released sometime soon when this (um) pandemic is over-

(1:07:23)

Crystal: Oh of course Jamie the musical!

Tutu: Everybody’s Talking About Jamie the musical, but a little unknown fact about Myra & I is that Myra was the first drag queen that I ever did a show with-

Crystal: As if!

Tutu: -yeah!

Crystal: How crazy is that!?

Tutu: I had my first gig after winning Drag Idol was at Halfway To Heaven, and Myra - either as Myra or as Gareth I can’t remember - was doing the tech cos (you know) she used to DJ back in those days, and afterwards she came up to me and had a conversation and just said “D’ya wanna do a show together?” and I went “Yes” And we did a show together at Halfway To Heaven, which was brilliant, and then we said “lets do another one together” and we did another one together and it was an absolute disaster!

• Tutu & Crystal laugh -

Crystal: Lightning only struck once!

(1:08:19)

Tutu: Exactly! Well I’ll always remember that Myra was the first drag queen that I ever worked with when I was straight out of the Drag Idol (um) gates to the scene that we call our little industry.

Crystal: It is such a joy to be a part of such a (though we-) though every industry, every industry, every community has it’s cracks that need to be fixed and (you know)- but I do take so much pride in the U.K community and how supportive of each other, and in all circuits and in all styles of drag, we are very supportive and we are very proud of each other and in climates like today it’s been incredible to see people really come together, there of course - as I said - there are cracks, there are things that (um) that need to be spoken about and conversations that need to be made, but for the most part our community is something that I for one am so-so proud of and look forward to seeing how with progress further in future.

(1:09:21)

Tutu: I couldn’t have put that any better myself, well not even just in our community, even when talking about RuPaul’s Drag Race, - I’m not gonna go off on another tangent - I know I’m known for being quite critical of that franchise as are you but then I always love it in the sense that I see the good it’s doing as far as drag & LGBTQIA+ visibility concerned, and making an industry that’s better and more (um) economic for all of us, it just needs to make sure that it is inclusive for everybody and everybody is allowed on the highest table to be able to join-enjoy the benefits because people are watching, people- there’s so many millions of people that are seeing drag for the first time through the Drag Race lense and they are getting misinformed by only seeing a restrictive, (um) exclusive perspective of what drag is and so yeah we’re not perfect drag like any other system whether it’d be at a Drag Race level, or our community level but do you know what? We have to make sure it stays alive and we have to make sure we improve the things that need fixing.

(1:10:33)

Crystal: 100% I agree with everything you just said (um) we just gotta keep on-keeping on and I don’t dislike the players, I dislike the game.

Tutu: Absolutely.

Crystal: (And I hope-) I want the game to get an upgrade.

Tutu: Sorry I was just lighting up a cigarette.

• They both laugh -

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: Very dramatic but we’re gonna end this interview there Tutu, thank you so much for coming on and being a guest on my podcast it means the absolute world, I look forward to seeing you in this new normal being as fabulous as you always are, do you have anything to plug that is coming up for yourself?

(1:11:04)

Tutu: Ooh I don’t know when this goes out but next Wednesday or this coming Wednesday I’m doing my first live show since lockdown-

Crystal: Yes!

Tutu: -at The Two Brewers, which I am calling ‘Post Viral Tutu’ yes! Well it’s 8 o’clock on Wednesday, it is a book only event (um) because- (um it-) it’s free but you have to reserve tables in order to see it and we only have a few tables left so if you want to see it? Please come and see it cos (you know I-) I as a CoVid survivor, and when I say “CoVid’ its the two and a half weeks of active infection were bad, but not that bad, it’s the what feels like 3 years of this post-viral fatigue have been absolutely excruciating which is why I’ve called it ‘Post Viral Tutu’, thats on Wednesday, and on Thursday we have the return of G-A-Y Porn Idol which we are calling ‘The Masked Stripper’.

(1:12:05)

Crystal: Oh jesus christ.

Tutu: Pun intended! (Um) And that is on Thursday, this coming week so please come and see that as well.

Crystal: That all sounds fabulous and of course go and see Everyone’s Talking About Jamie: The Movie when it’s finally out!

Tutu: And if I’m rubbish? Please be kind. Rubbish! Please be kind! I’ve never seen myself act before.

• Tutu cackles -

Crystal: If you’re rubbish we’ll call you Sandra, if you’re good we’ll call you Son Of A Tutu.

• Tutu shrieks and Crystal cackles -

Crystal: Thank you so much for joining me Tutu, I wish you well and sending you nothing but love my darling.

(1:12:39)

Tutu: Likewise darling, much Tutu love… much Crystal love!

Crystal: Ooh! Thank you so-so much to the absolute legend that is Son Of A Tutu for joining me for another absolutely brilliant episode of What Are You Like?! With me Crystal Lubrikunt. If you wanna hit up Son Of A Tutu then hit them up on Instagram & Facebook @SonOfATutu, thats S-O-N, O-F, A, T-U-T-U, if you wanna hit me up on social media it’s @CrystaLubrikunt on Instagram that’s C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T, and Facebook, thank you so so much for listening and I’ll see you in the next one, goodbye! Mwah, oh and stay camp, stay fabulous, all that shit you know what I mean? It’s a Sunday… FUCK. It’s a Sunday.

• soft, mysterious lounge music fades into the background -

End of episode

View Details

U.K drag legend, British-Nigerian icon & all round lovely diva Son Of A Tutu joins Crystal as they plot to take over the world! With discuss kindness, tokenism, Black Lives Matter, lifelong friends & pandemic holiday makers this episode is one heck of a joyous ride that - if she wasn't already there - reserves Tutu a place directly within your heart.

Music by Kevin Macleod

Full episode transcript available at: whatareyoulike.libsyn.com

View Details

(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like…

(00:19)

It could go one way or another, but prepare for good vibrations, good conversations, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing, just make sure you’re comfy, relaxed and ready for some faaaabulous discussion, let’s go.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

(00:37)

From West End pipes to serving looks that prepare your appetite, to activism for women in drag, and enough splits to make a gymnast squeal; I’m buzzing to be joined by the delightful Victoria Scone on today’s episode. The trail-blazing queen from Cardiff has been dominating the Welsh scene but what kinda’ cream to they enjoy with their afternoon tea? Is it Victoria “S’gone” or Victoria “S’cone?” Let’s find out as we discover what they, are really like.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to fade out in the background -

(01:07)

Crystal: Hi Victoria!

Victoria Scone: Hey!

Crystal: How’s it going?

Victoria: Lovely, absolutely lovely.

Crystal: It took us a few seconds to set up (you know, it-its) it’s live theatre.

• Victoria laughs -

Victoria: Yes it is! Two computers, a phone… and a vibrator later and here we are.

Crystal: OH lovely! Well you (did-di) did tell me what you were getting up to before this little interview and I thought - you know what - it’s a Tuesday why the hell not eh?

• Victoria laughs -

Victoria: Me’Mum’s watching Crystal!

Crystal: Oh nooo! (um) So! How’ve you been? (I mean) You’ve been entertaining the masses in terms of, your looks in lockdown, so how’ve you been creatively, and personally? How have you been?

(01:45)

Victoria: (I think…) Is it bad to say that (I-I-) I kind of enjoy the time? I enjoy the lockdown the… the no (sort of) working. - Victoria laughs - (Thats really) That sounds awful to say that but I did enjoy the time creatively, it’s (kind of) a once in a lifetime thing that we’re all gonna get (…um) obviously it put us all in a terrible situation but we (literally) had no other option to try and be creative, or try and do something of worth, cos (that-) thats (kind of) why I went into (yeah do-) doing make up looks-I had to just do something… (that) and with the means that I already had, I had no money, I couldn’t really (you know) go out and buy a sewing machine at the time so I kind of had to work with what I had.

(02:28)

Crystal: Listeners if you have not seen Victoria- and also before I actually get any further, I said this in my intro to this interview; is it Victoria “S’gone” or is it Victoria “S’cone?”

Victoria: Well originally-originally it was Victoria Sponge, (um) but there’s already a Victoria Sponge… And tenfold, probably in the world, (so it was) it was supposed to be Victoria S’gone? Like; ‘oh where’s Victoria? Oh Victoria S’gone.’ Like she’s drunk. So it’s Victoria “S’gone”

(02:51)

Crystal: Oh I love that!

Victoria: But, “S’cone” is fine, I keep saying “S’cone”.

Crystal: Oh but I love that play on words ‘Victoria’s Gone’.

Victoria: ‘Oh she’s gone…’

Crystal: So maybe it’s (um) Victoria “S’cone” when (you’re-) you’re at the start of the show…

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: And it’s Victoria “S’gone” when it’s toward the end and everything’s a bit (you know) sweat-

Victoria: There’s fluid.

Crystal: Sweat’s pouring down, and you know what I m-

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: -And of all of that.

(03:11)

Victoria: There’s a transition.

Crystal: Absolutely and we are - sort of - I don’t know what (kind of) era we are within now, but it feels like lockdown is very much easing off? So…

Victoria: (I mean) I’m a little behind you, I’m in Wales.

Crystal: So what’s the Wales situation?

Victoria: We… we’ve just started opening pubs & clubs but just for drinks so we’re still not allowed (really) to put on live entertainment as such.

(03:38)

Crystal: Okay, do we have a first-show-back in our sights?

Victoria: Yes but it’s in London!

Crystal: Oh work! Perfect! Get that mask on Babi-girl and get down here!

Victoria: On a 3 hour MegaBus! Eurgh I can’t wait.

Crystal: It’s fascinating to watch your journey and that sounds so condescending and it’s-blergh! But in all honesty I have- I think I have a bit of a fetish for trailblazers? And that’s what I consider-consider you (you-you’ve-how) when did you start doing drag?

(04:04)

Victoria: Er… 2018, March 2018.

Crystal: Thats… BONKERS!

• Victoria cackles -

Crystal: That’s bonkers, (like) that’s insane, it’s so commendable that you are doing what you’re doing and you’re doing the venues that you’re doing as well which; do you feel that being in Cardiff, with venues such as Mary’s - you work at Mary’s am I right?

Victoria: Yes! Yeah every Wednesday.

Crystal: That’s a humungous deal, (like) humungous deal (I mean), I know many performers that are aspiring - myself included - (that are-is) aspiring to work such an establishment like Mary’s.

Victoria: Mm.

Crystal: And then you come to London and you’re doing The Two Brewers-

Victoria: Mm yep.

Crystal: You’ve done The Admiral Duncan-

Victoria: Yeeess, yes! Pride! Yup, yup!

(04:45)

Crystal: Ticking the boxes! (Like) you’re doing the damn thing, (and it’s so) it’s so amazing that Victoria Scone is doing the damn thing.

Victoria: I-I even, I had (er) a bit of a break as well during that time (so after) after Drag Idol, which is when I first started drag in 2018, after that it (kind of) was (like) a scary, scary time and I was like ‘ah how am I going to make this work?’ (like), didn’t really know how to make it work so I had a bit of a break after Pride 2018 and then only really came back to it the year after for Drag Idol again in Cardiff, and then it (kinda) really kicked off so I (kind of) arrived in Cardiff, put my foot down like ‘I’m here, I’m Queer, you’re gonna hire me.’

(05:22)

Crystal: I love that, and for our listeners how do you identify?

Victoria: Pansexual cis female.

Crystal: Lovely. Lovely, lovely, lovely, and your pronouns?

Victoria: She/Her, that’s actually a fuzzy-fuzzy area, I don’t know… You know how gender is fluid and forever and ever evolving?

Crystal: Absolutely.

Victoria: (I-I-jus-) Yeah, I don’t mind They/Them either.

Crystal: This is the thing is that I tend to think of (er) the spectrum and (the-and-the-jus-) being genderfluid, and I think of He/She/They/Them and I’m comfortable in all regards…

Victoria: Absolutely yeah.

(05:57)

Crystal: But if there was an appropriate- for business terms I want people calling me She/Her so if I put anything, I put She/Her because I’m more protective of my Muggle identity and my Muggle name & background than I am with my gender identity so (I’m rather) I’d rather just say She/Her so that people just call me Crystal because you rock up to that corporate gig and they go - in posh, obnoxious accent - ‘Oh hello Jonathan’, that’s not my Muggle name but d’ya know what I mean? It’s just a bit like ‘eurgh you just (kind of) ruined the - Victoria laughs - 3 hours of work I just put in (just like), you sound like my primary school teacher (like) as if I’ve forgotten my Maths homework Jesus.

(06:38)

Victoria: I do love that you say ‘Muggle’ because I use Muggle for (like) everything (like) for (like) day job, out of drag I say Muggle.

Crystal: Yeah it just makes sense, (I mean) it’s kind of ironic that we are using a term that was coined by an absolute transphobe but um….

Victoria: No, no, she didn’t write it, it was found on a hill is that what Mark said?

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: Yeah Mark said it was found in some bronze tablets-

Victoria: Yup.

Crystal: -in the middle of a hill, ANYWAY! We’re gonna move - Victoria chuckles - swiftly on, let’s go to our first section of the interview, let’s do 7 Things.

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

Crystal: Now Victoria I’ve gotten in touch with your gooorgeous London sister Poppycock, and they have given me 7 words that they use to describe a queen like you, and we’re gonna go through them one-by-one and decipher why they have chosen these words particularly, are you ready?

(07:31)

Victoria: Oh I just don’t know. - Victoria chuckles - I’m scared! Yeah go on then.

Crystal: The first word that Poppycock has described Victoria Scone as is; ‘talent’.

Victoria: (Is that-) is that the only nice one she said?

Crystal: S’nice isn’t it?

• Victoria cackles -

Victoria: That’s very kind.

Crystal: Why do you think she’s used the word ‘talent’?

Victoria: I just can’t imagine her saying that about m- no I’m joking um!

• Crystal chuckles -

Victoria: That’s very kind well (w-we-she-both) she started at the same time as me, I think she was (sort of) Bedroom Queen’ing, for a bit before me but we both started the same year as Drag Idol (um) and maybe we were- (yeah) she’s a very dancey queen, she’s incredible at what she does, amazing singer, so it’s very kind of her to say ‘talent’ regarding me…. um-

(08:11)

Crystal: But you are very talented.

• They both laugh -

Victoria: But it’s difficult to say that about yourself.

Crystal: You are bloody talented.

Victoria: Thank you, so yeah! Maybe she said it because she hopefully believes it so- yeah!

Crystal: I love that, and the second word is; ‘artistry’. The second word that Poppycock has used for you is; ‘artistry’.

Victoria: I guess- (well) I think… well all drag is art really, init? (um) Ooh this is awful this! Trying to say something and recognise something nice about yourself, this is not a bit of me!

• They both laugh -

Crystal: I love it, I love it, it plays with people a little bit and it (kind of) forces them to (like) enjoy themselves and be proud of themselves.

(08:53)

Victoria: I’m (like) instantly projecting it back on to someone else I’m like ‘Yeaaaah drag is art, everyone does art!’

• They both cackle -

Crystal: Obviously drag is art and (you know) it’s one of the biggest art forms of today especially, but I also think that they’re referring to your artistry with your looks.

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: Did you think that when you started drag that (you-er) you would be pulling such tremendous looks that you have been the past few months?

(09:15)

Victoria: No! (I mean I-) I started drag with the intention of utilising my musical theatre training cos I went to a musical theatre college in London, (for-well) I trained for (like) all my life really, (um) so I was like I need to utilise this, I’ve had all these years of training and (er) my agent’s dropped me so… I need to try and - (try and-I-cos-) you know we’re all- we are all artists and I-I couldn’t exist without performing or doing some sort of art somehow, that is why I feel like I am here I need to project something on to the world, (um) so I intended to be singing, and performing and entertaining, and I-I love RuPaul’s Drag Race but that wasn’t even really why I got into drag so it was never really about ‘the looks’… as such, I have always been (sorta) arty-crafty, (like) from painting and (like) whatever, when I was younger but (yeah) that was never really the intention (um), and because I originally started my make-up so big the reason I did that was because I thought, ‘If i’m going to be a cis female doing this, I can’t just throw on a bit of mascara and call myself a drag queen’ - which you absolutely can, no problem with that - but i thought; ‘I can’t do that I’ve gotta have this big massive eye, so… that (kind of) big cut crease has become a bit of a staple now- that’s (kind of) become my thing now, (yeah) big make-up is probably why I have delved more into make-up to (like) experiment a bit more with looks and not just do the same thing every time, I think it’d get a bit stale with Victoria’s face so lockdown help me not do that.

(10:49)

Crystal: In the future, if Victoria Scone was to audition and be given a role in the West End, what role would you love to see Victoria Scone take on?

Victoria: What a good question, (um) I was very close to doing (um) Ursula on a Disney cruise, that’s like - I know - one of the only jobs that I became close to getting, (I don’t-) so I think that would be really camp, I really-I really want to do Pantomimes, (like) as (um) a fairy godmother.

Crystal: (Wha-I-um-) I definitely think that could be (like) a done-thing, maybe next year? But-

Victoria: Yeah, well yeah, either a fairy godmother or an ugly sister, that’d be really funny.

Crystal: I can definitely, 100% see Victoria Scone as a Panto dame-

Victoria: Yeah.

Crystal: -very-very soon, (like) how that hasn’t happened or was gonna happen, is ridiculous. But the third word that Poppycock has given us is; ‘loving.’

(11:44)

Victoria: Awww.

Crystal: Are you a very loving person?

Victoria: That’s very nice - Victoria cackles - oh I’d like to think that I am loving- I think I can be a very good friend (s’its-this-) this is horrible this is I can’t get over it! Talking about yourself! (Um yeah) I think I try- I really try to be a good friend, treat others how you wanna be treated and all that init.

(12:09)

Crystal: Absolutely, and the fourth word that Poppycock has used is; ‘determined.’

Victoria: Yup! Yup! (I think-) I think any drag queen (really) has to be a bit determined to try and make it in this industry a bit but perhaps especially because I am not a white cis male then, you know (I’m-) I’m not gonna give up I have this conversation a lot about ‘ooh do you ever think AFAB people will make it to Drag Race’ - not that Drag Race is the be-all and end-all of drag but - (um) I-I would like to say that I will keep talking about it and doing it until there is.

(12:41)

Crystal: A good chunk of the audience that watch Drag Race are people that want to be on Drag Race, and part of that chunk are cis female drag performers, or just female drag performers in general, and they’re having this love/hate relationship with this television show-

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: -because they’re partly enjoying it and they wanna support anyone that goes on it, it’s a big deal and then the other half is - for lack of a better word - is thirsty, you’re craving, just let us get on that show and proved this world wrong and that’s the most frustrating part because it’s like the producers are just sat there saying ‘well if it ain’t broke we’re not gonna fix it’ But! It shouldn’t be anyone’s business, that’s the big issues I have it should be no one’s business what is underneath those tights, what is- d’ya know what I mean? It’s just bonkers to me and it makes me angry when- because you & I have been friends online for a while and it makes me very frustrated when I see you-

(13:37)

Victoria: Yep.

Crystal: -get into this debates, and I chime in myself and I just wish people would fucking close their mouths and open their eyes and open their mind because it is boring, it is BORING! - Victoria chuckles - hearing what Gareth from Galway thinks about cis male drag, I’m bored of it Victoria, I’m bloody bored of it! Now, the fifth word of Poppycock-

• Victoria cackles -

Victoria: That was a seamless transition!

- They both cackle -

Victoria: “I’m bored of it-now….” Stunning.

Crystal: But for fifth, the fifth word Poppycock has provided is; ‘theatre!’

(14:14)

Victoria: Mmhm.

Crystal: Do you take theatre on stage or is theatre on & off stage in your life?

Victoria: Well it was such a huge part of my life before drag and I definitely bring it on stage (er), being musical theatre and just, the theatrics of drag anyway I think everything I do is very camp and I think that’s how I’m able to be relatively (um) bookable (um) because I can blur the lines between traditional drag and alternative drag, the only real reason I have won an award as a drag- as an ‘alternative drag performer’ and am considered an ‘alternative drag performer’ is because I have a vagina, everything else apart of my- about my drag is (er) entertaining, and traditional, and fabulous and camp not that any other type of drag isn’t all of those type of things but (you know) I don’t have blood pouring out of my mouth and I don’t strip off and go into my pants, (like-)my-er) my current performance is to have a very easy-watching camp time, not that I wouldn’t wanna do anything else because I would, but! In a time like now I have to make myself as marketable as possible so I can almost sneak in the industry disguised…

(15:36)

Crystal: And infiltrate from within!

Victoria: Exactly! You’ve got it!

• They both chuckle -

Crystal: You were (kind of) giving me a bit of a plan of action!

Victoria: Now listen to me son!

• Crystal cackles -

Crystal: Oh my god, (um) I’m gonna have to really behave myself on this interview because when we talk about (um) people that aren’t cis male trying to get the opportunities that cis males do get in the industry, I get very-very frustrated because-

(16:06)

Victoria: Mm.

Crystal: - (cos we-you-) you know firsthand, but I’ve been apart of shows where the line-up is so diverse & inclusive, and the audience (just) they enjoy it all, they love it all, they obsess over it all, the etiquette between audience and different types of performers is one thing that’s different to (just) the general (just), bloody inclusiveness of a show!

Victoria: Mmhm.

Crystal: Because it’s just drag! It’s what drag is, it’s anything you want it to be and it does my head in, especially! After the climate, and the climate that we are currently within that we are still seeing shows come back, and the shows that did all those posts about “inclusivity” and Black Lives Matter and they’ve brought back the same. White. Casts.

Victoria: Yes!

Crystal: And it’s (just like)-

Victoria: I’m already seeing it!

Crystal: Listen, everyones gotta make their money-

Victoria: Mmhm.

(17:06)

Crystal: -every performer has to fund their life and keep a roof above their heads but being complicit is not an option in this day & age in my opinion- but anywho we’re going to go on to our sixth word-

- Victoria laughs -

Victoria: You’re getting really angry and then going on to the next one-

Crystal: Eurgh but I’m just passionate! I’m just passionate Mum! The sixth word which I find is a very important word is; ‘camp’.

(17:27)

Victoria: Yes! Yes, I-I like to use that word a lot and I think that does sum up Victoria a lot, I try to involve camp (in all-) in all of my looks I think thats very important, we’re all having a camp ole’ time. It’s all camp!

Crystal: Was there a moment in your career where you won over an audience, or maybe you told a joke or you sang a song and you thought ‘Nope this is it! This is what I’m gonna be doing, what I wanna do, this is the ticket.’

Victoria: Eurgh that’s so good, there are a few moments, (I think er) the first is probably the semi-final of Drag Idol 2018, where I had-oh Wendi Peters and, (um) the lady from ‘Allo ‘Allo oh her name leaves me but (um) I basically (just) ripped them apart and then did this full musical theatre number to (um) - singing in style of Rose’s Turn from the musical Gypsy - “Everything’s coming up Scone’s” instead of “Rose’s” (like) and (like) I had a fosse hate on and I took it off and gave it to them and it said ‘Pick Me’ inside the hat (like) it was all very camp and they just ate it up and then I won and it was the best night of my whole life, and then I didn’t do it for a year… - Victoria laughs - No but that was probably one of them that I was like ‘I need to do this’ but I just hadn’t figured out exactly how I needed to do it yet.

(18:40)

And then another time, which I just only posted the photos of it yesterday, was in a bar in Cardiff and my Mum was coming up to see me perform in drag for the first time-

Crystal: Gorgeous.

Victoria: -and on the train, basically my Mum is just me but (like) a year older, obviously not literally but she’s basically just me, maybe more an alcoholic, and she was on this train from Portsmouth to come and see me and she met an all-male, gay choir on the train on their way to Wales as well and my Mum and her best friend, being the way that they are they were joining in with them and singing, drinking Prosecco on the train, having a lovely ole’ time and she was like “Oh you should come to this bar tomorrow night my-my daughter is a-a drag performer, we’d love to see you there” So she didn’t really tell me about it but that night, they show up and they bring (maybe) 7 or 8 other choirs with them?

(19:26)

Crystal: Oh my god.

Victoria: The bar was absolutely packed and I-I think I went on at about 7 and I didn’t get off till about midnight. (Like) it was (like) song after song, it was like a choir-off, it was the most campest, best night of my career it was the best.

Crystal: That’s so joyous.

Victoria: And they kept wanting to come up- oh it was lovely, they just had the best time ever, (like) no one asked, no one gave a crap about (you know) me’vagina, they were just having a lovely night and that’s all that mattered, everyone had a lovely time.

Crystal: That is all that matters, now the last word is-

(19:58)

Victoria: Yep.

Crystal: -a word I’ve saved it for the end because I’m so interested in this word and why Poppycock has chosen this, I’m just excited if I’m honest but the last word that Poppycock has chosen to describe Victoria Scone is; ‘Liza’.

• Victoria chuckles -

Victoria: Yeah!? It’s Liza!

Crystal: So why has Poppycock chosen ‘Liza’?

Victoria: “Liza with a Z!” (Erm) I don’t know I just love Liza! (Erm) do you not love Liza?

(20:26)

Crystal: I love Liza but (I-I-just-I-) I feel very- whenever someone brings a name or brings up someone and you can (just) feel their raw passion for their idol, me with Madonna I guess is (like) I will sit down with a Ariana Grande fan and say I like Ariana but then they will, LIIIIIKE Ariana, do you know what I mean?

Victoria: Yeah.

Crystal: So I (just-I-I) I don’t wanna just- I feel (like) I’m not gonna try and pretend that I’m obsessed and I that I know everything, (like) I love Liza but I feel like you LOVE Liza.

(21:00)

Victoria: Yeah, I know I did go through a massive Liza phase especially at the beginning of Drag Idol (um but), oh maybe she just (you know) see’s a bit of Liza in me which-which I love and (eurgh oh) I did a song called - you need to look at it, it’s the best song ever - called Arthur In The Afternoon, have you ever seen Liza do it?

Crystal: I have not.

Victoria: I’ll literally message you again, Arthur In The Afternoon, and I’ve only done it once but that reminds me that I need to do that again actually cos thats really funny and I need to do that so thanks Poppycock, but no! It’s just camp isn’t it you know “Liza!”

(21:30)

Crystal: Do you have any, are there any idols that you look up to other than Liza?

Victoria: Like in drag or in life?

Crystal: I’m gonna give you, I’m gonna say two drag and two life.

Victoria: Okay.

Crystal: The first to pop into your head-

Victoria: Okay.

Crystal: This does not reference, this does not represent (like) your absolute faves, there’s no scale here, just two people of each.

Victoria: Okay well the first thing was- first thing? Sorry the first artist or person I thought of was Cynthia Erivo, that was literally the first person that popped into my head, because I remember when- I remember when I use to go to their concerts in London at The Hippodrome when they were not yet in The Colour Purple or on Broadway, (um) and I was with a friend that said to them before they went to New York “You’re not allowed to come back unless you win a Tony” And she only went and won a Tony so I was like; well, fair play to you. I just love Cynthia and she (um) is very vocal with her platform and thats exactly what you need to do, I say this; If you have 100 followers or 100,000 followers you’re talking to someone, use your platform for something, so I just love how she uses her platform.

(22:32)

Crystal: 100%.

Victoria: Love Cynthia.

Crystal: I was very lucky to go and see Cynthia on Broadway in the production of The Colour Purple with Jennifer Hudson and Danielle Westbrook-

Victoria: Oh! Okay, slip that one in!

Crystal: And yeah! Because it was a life-changing experience!

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: Cynthia is a powerhouse and-

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: -it’s just joyous to know that in-I think in the pop world it’s very obvious that we can still have these legends that come from these new artists (you know) and they grow into their legendary status but also in musical theatre I think Cynthia will join the likes of (you know) Audra McDonald or Barbra Streisand and-

(23:08)

Victoria: I’ve seen Audra McDonald, just so you know.

Crystal: Oh work! Was Cynthia your life idol or a drag idol?

Victoria: Oh I have no idea- no not a drag (um), yeah life, and then another one that’s probably both, like & drag would be Patti LuPone, because Patti LuPone is the greatest drag queen of all time.

• Victoria laughs -

Wow, what a knob. (Um) oh there’s too many now, (um) yeah Patti LuPone, who would also be my Snatch Game choice.

Crystal: Oh I just can’t, I can’t believe (like) I cannot believe we’ve gone how many seasons of that show and no one has done Patti LuPone.

Victoria: I know.

Crystal: It’s bonkers, especially as there have been some people on it that have claimed to be such musical thespians, and i’m like; you’ve got the biggest, one of the biggest personalities, one of the few - maybe i’m not sure - the only to stop a performance on Broadway and go: “NO!”

• Victoria laughs -

(23:58)

Victoria: “Put your phone away!”

Crystal: “We told you at the beginning! We told you at intermission! No, stop this right NOW! This is theatre!” (Like) she is just, and when she is on the red carpet and they’re saying (like) “What do you think fo Trump” and she’s like “I think he’s a motherfucker.”

• Victoria laughs -

Victoria: I love her so much!

Crystal: Were you able to catch her in ‘Company’ when it was on the West End?

Victoria: Yes, yes! Yes I was, I do, yes.

Crystal: And wasn’t it brilliant?

Victoria: Yes, (er) incredible um “Everybody rise!” And you can just imagine her in Snatch Game, all you would have to do is (like-kind of) speak-sing everything without any consonants, she only sings in vowels.

Crystal: And be so angry at everyone else.

Victoria: And just throw a martini every 4 seconds.

Crystal: Absolutely.

Victoria: And have awful hair…

(24:42)

Crystal: She has advice that she gave in a backstage interview whilst she was doing Company, and I sa-I screen recorded it and I saved it to my phone and the question was (um) “Do any of your roles impact you and do any of their messages carry on with you (um) in your day-to-day life?” and she just says “I don’t take any of my roles with me, I wipe my feet at the door, everything stays outside, everything within side, is the character.” And I just think that is something that definitely we play in the world of drag, it’s so important.

Victoria: I like that.

Crystal: But argh Patti LuPone.

Victoria: I know right? I’ve also seen her in a concert version of Sweeney Todd, that (kind of) turned into a not-really-a-concert, they (kind of) threw down the music stands and it became (basically) a full’-fedged slow’, oh my god I can’t talk, a full… fledged, show.

(25:35)

Crystal: It sounds very similar to lockdown, it’s like ‘we’re just doing an outdoor performance…’

• Victoria laughs -

Victoria: Yes!

Crystal: But with a hundred-seated orchestra! Pyrotechnics!

Victoria: Exactly, yes!

Crystal: I love that. And gimme two more of your idols.

Victoria: Okay, so… I’m gonna do (like) two & a half, or maybe three. (um) So Barbra Streisand basically for the same reasons as Patti LuPone but it’s just Barbara Streisand obviously, (um) I have seen her in concert did you go to that was it Hyde-

Crystal: I went to the… (er) I went to The O2 years ago, when she was at The O2.

Victoria: Okay, camp.

Crystal: And I was- I still (er) am furious with her because she was singing a song from her album and though it was beautiful she just decided, middle of the way through, she was just going to break out into Don’t Rain On My Parade and be like ‘Ha ha ha, you guys didn’t expect that you sausages!’ (like) Eurgh!

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: It just annoyed me because I thought we deserved the full thing Babs how did y- how dare you but I think- (my personal-) my personal favourite Babs moment - though I have not discovered her entire discography there is so much to get through but I will one day work my way through all of it - but my current fav Babs moment is actually her duet with Patrick Wilson ‘Loving You’.

Victoria: Mmhm.

Crystal: I just think it’s stunning.

Victoria: Mmhm.

Crystal: I think it was off of the second duets album

(26:49)

Victoria: She’s got terrible stage fright hasn’t she notoriously.

Crystal: Yeah, yeah notoriously bad stage fright and it just makes (you know) it makes these… these legendary divas, I think the reason why they’re so legendary- (Er) there are some that I think it is obviously just pure talent but I think there’s ones that just get that extra level higher because they’re so universally loved because they are so human.

Victoria: Mmhm oh yeah, yeah we forget that they are human.

Crystal: And Babs is one of them.

Victoria: Absolutely.

Crystal: And I-I-I-I would put Adele in the same room with Babs d’ya know what I mean? Very similar people.

Victoria: - in the tune of People by Barbra Streisand - People… people who need people…

Crystal: Here we go, yes…

(27:27)

Victoria: Oh I’ll save that for my Snatch Game, oh I would do Barbra for my Snatch Game but too many have done it, that wouldn’t be good enough, I wouldn’t wanna do her an injustice. Right drag idols would be… ‘Drag Idols’… my drag… Idol, one of them would be Miss Jason, because I have seen them in pantomime quite a lot, and (um) was one of the reasons I would go to The Brewers and (kind of) got into drag so it was like a segway there, love Miss Jason. (Umm) Another one would be Juno Birch-

Crystal: Eurgh.

Victoria: Yes, but I kind of wanna save her.

Crystal: It’s so refreshing as to when you ask someone their drag idols and - though I really appreciate and I love & support so many that have been on Drag Race over the years - it’s always lovely to hear that people’s drag idols have- they’re just people that have come up on their own and just- (you know) it’s, it’s so inspiring I’m very similar with mine. (Um) One thing that iss an unforgettable experience that I had with Miss Jason was (um) I worked a Drag Race show that Miss Jason hosted-

(28:30)

Victoria: Okay.

Crystal: And it’s… And that’s all I’m gonna say because it was a night for the ages.

Victoria: Oh I wanna know everything!

Crystal: The… the-the mispronounced names! The (you know) I don’t think Miss Jason has watched an episode of Drag Race in their life.

Victoria: Amazing.

Crystal: It made it even funnier (um), but also (she’s just-) she’s incredibly kind, she’s a very-very kind person.

Victoria: Yes she is.

Crystal: (um) And your second one was Juno Birch, now I just don’t- (I-) I just think Juno Birch is the best thing since sliced bread.

(29:04)

Victoria: A’yes, I (kind of) wanted to save her for my (is-it-like) favourite things you ask me?

Crystal: Yeah.

Victoria: So, but (I just-) I just can’t talk about how much I love Juno Birch without getting emotional.

Crystal: She’s just someone that’s just come along and - in referral to their aesthetic - abducted us all. But any- (we’ve got, we- got-) we’re stuck on 7 Things we need to get things going, lets go to our third section which is; ‘True Love’

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

(29:34)

Crystal: So ‘True Love’ Victoria is a time for you to talk about something that you can remember since a very young age to present day that you have always loved, you’ve always been interested in, something that’s… in your blood whether it is something, whether it is (er) a skill you have or whether it’s a film you’ve watched or (you know) a drink that you’ve always enjoyed drinking (you know), anything that love since you were a child that you love just as much today.

(30:04)

Victoria: Golly, okay. As you were talking I happen to be looking across the room at a photo of me at (um) about (maybe) 10 years old or so, and I am playing Seymour Krelborn in my local AMDRAM society of Little Shop Of Horrors so I think, ‘gender-fuckery’ has always been a love of mine from a young age, so… And then next to it is a picture of me dressed as Avril Lavinge looking, astounding may I say.

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: Oh, amazing. So my question to you is- it’s gonna be a flip of what I asked you earlier - if you were to genderfuck a role and flip it, and you were to play a cis male role, what cis male role in a musical would you play? I’m will give you 3 because (this is-its very-) I know with thespians it’s like Sophies Choice.

(31:00)

Victoria: Oh my god that’s a lot, I would probably wanna be…

Crystal: I would lowkey love you to play Trunchball because that is supposed to be played by a cis male right?

Victoria: Yes and look at my hair! (Um) Oh now I have to say Trunchball now.

• Victoria giggles -

Crystal: Oh it just- I just think you’d kill it.

Victoria: Okay that would be the campest thing ever and I have seen Matilda (like) 3 times and it’s-it’s phenomenal so okay, Trunchball! Hamilton! And I can’t remember the act- the characters name but Ben Platt in, Dear Evan Hansen. Evan, Evan Hansen that’s the one.

• They both cackle -

Crystal: Did you just say “ can’t remember the characters name” ?!

(31:38)

Victoria: The character from Dear Evan Hansen, so Evan Hansen!

• They both laugh -

Crystal: Oh my goodness me. Well, well, well… (um) did you say someone from Hamilton? Or did I just make th-

Victoria: Alexander Hamilton yeah!

Crystal: Oh okay I thought you just went “Someone from Hamilton! And then I’d play-“ I thought you were gonna go through each one on your hand!

- Victoria laughs -

Crystal: (I think…) I think I could just see you as Trunchball.

Victoria: Yeah Trunchball is camp.

Crystal: I think it’s so amazing (in H-) in film, in TV, when you see genuinely nice people and nice performers play horrible, horrible roles.

(32:15)

Victoria: Mm.

Crystal: I was hoping, and praying, I did not receive (my-) the gift that I requested, where are getting Anne Hathaway as The Grand High Witch, we’re not getting Olivia Colman as The Grand High Witch-

Victoria: Right.

Crystal: Which I wished was gonna happen but we’re gonna get on with it.

Victoria: Is this the Roald Dahl situation?

Crystal: Yes, the Roald Dahl adaptation, the film adaptation, the “loyal”- it’s supposed to be the “loyal” version of The Witches” cos apparently the version of The Witches that Anjelica Huston was involved in isn’t as loyal to the source as this new one will be.

(32:47)

Victoria: Right.

Crystal: But we’ll see! Don’t judge a book by it’s cover I guess!

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: See if Anne can whack it out of the park. So your ‘True Love’ is gender-fuckery-theatre.

Victoria: In this moment in time-right now, yes.

Crystal: Was there a moment when you realised in the tradition of Catherine Tate: “I can do that.”

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: Because I know that there are parts when- (like) I went to an all boys school up until the age of 10 and they did enforce that we played the female roles as well.

(33:12)

Victoria: Right. I love that, you know how- I always say this - (how-) how drag, the term ‘drag’ comes from when females couldn’t, weren’t allowed to perform on stage so men would play the roles and it would be known as drag - dressed appropriately as a girl - and now we’re where we are and we’re still in the same place (like) AFAB bodies are still not able to play-

Crystal: Isn’t it ironic… don’t you think?

Victoria: I remember vividly when (um) I was playing Seymour Krelborn and (I-is-) this is a memory I have of this h- (um) not particularly very nice person that was running (the-the,) the group (um) and I was on stage taking my bow to be Seymour Krelborn and I took my wig off to reveal my long hair underneath cos’, how camp am I at 9 years old? I was (like) literally Victor/Victoria, taking the wig off to reveal my- the fact that I am a woman and the audience would be like “ * gasp * Brava! Wow!” And then my Mum overheard someone talk to someone else like in the interval (be like) “Isn’t that little boy playing Seymour so good?” And I was just like; “I am hooked! I’m hooked already! I love this so much!”

Crystal: Now we’re going to go on to our next section which is called; ‘Topic Of Choice’ Victoria.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

(34:25)

Crystal: Now this is a time where you get to choose what we discuss-

Victoria: Okay.

Crystal: We can discuss ANYTHING from… anything, from anything, so is there anything that you wanna talk about today thats (um) rattling your brains, maybe something that’s making you happy, maybe something that’s keeping you going, maybe it’s (er) a movie or a TV show that you’re watching, anything! Let’s talk about it.

Victoria: I do think that it would be a sin for me not to talk about… AFAB, Trans, Non-Binary performers on Drag Race, and, specifically Juno Birch as well, not that she’s gonna be on Drag Race, she might be I don’t know but just my love of Juno Birch as well and… that genre.

Crystal: Okay.

(35:07)

Victoria: So… - Victoria giggles - we have touched on-

Crystal: Well as far as I’m aware I do think Juno Birch is interested in doing Drag Race.

Victoria: Yes (but she’s not-I mean) but she’s not on season 2.

Crystal: No she’s not. I have a friend that (er) has been, or will be, or maybe on the show, and they told me that the producers say that they are looking into being more inclusive but as I’ve said in the past and as I’m sure you will agree; actions speak louder than words.

Victoria: Absolutely, it’s all well and good saying it but proof is in the pudding.

Crystal: If there was- as a cis female drag performer - again, I do not like differentiating anything in the world of drag but in this conversation I wanna ask; is there something that you- if you had all power, access to everything as a cis female drag performer what would you wanna do?

(36:01)

• Victoria tongue pops -

Victoria: I would want to…

• Victoria puts on a demonic voice -

Burn Rupaul!

• They both laugh -

No, um…

• Crystal puts on a demonic voice -

Crystal: Cinderella!

Victoria: (Um) No, (Yeah) I think we should just (yeah) scrap the (er) top tier of Drag Race- just make it ‘Drag Race’, I feel like I could do a lot more than this but this would be the first thing that I’d do would just be like- no rules (no-), no genders, no- not even up for a discussion (um) that would be one of the first things that I would do. Personally I-I really want to- I always have this dream of (like) ‘what would you do if you won the lottery?’ Basically is this question, and I would want to invest more money in Queer spaces and make them more (errr) palatable for people that aren’t White cis males (Um which-), which is happening, that’s happening a little bit in Cardiff- (sorta-) a different kind of venues/areas are popping up (um like), there isn’t enough places that don’t sell alcohol or that don’t (um) provide for people that don’t drink alcohol, (um- like-) for the Muslim community or a community that- anyone that doesn’t wanna drink alcohol- (there’s-) there’s fuck all choice basically, which is a big part of our community we have a lot of people that are sober or for religious reasons don’t drink alcohol and there is no where for you to go, everything is about getting as drunk as you can, and getting as silly as you can, which is not really - for me- what drag is about, or what being social is about.

(37:27)

Crystal: You wanna find a fine line between (er) theatre & bar culture.

Victoria: Yeah, just- yeah, nice places.

Crystal: As someone who hasn’t drank in 5 years I very much appreciate that.

Victoria: Oh good.

Crystal: I do think there are spaces that definitely respect that but obviously (I don’t-) I’m not knowledgable in the Welsh scene.

Victoria: Yeah.

Crystal: So I think it’s definitely, it’s definitely something that every scene needs is a couple venues that (you know), it’s not about going and- for me & my experience, (I don’t-) I wouldn’t go to The RVT and get absolutely car-parked, I wouldn’t go to (you know-um), The Glory and get car-parked, I go to those venues because I’m gonna go see a show or-

(38:06)

Victoria: Yeah.

Crystal: -go and be social and (like) I’ve never really gone there and seen absolute messes but never say never! I think every venues had it’s fair share of difficult times in terms of (like) customers.

Victoria: Yeah, well thats how they make their money, (like) they have to make money or they can’t be there so there needs to be a way round that, (I-I-) I watch the drag in Wales and I see what there is online and (in Wales-), in here in Cardiff we don’t have spaces that are like… I can’t describe it…

(38:33)

Crystal: Soho Theatre?

Victoria: Hm yeah I don’t know! (It’s just like), there’s nowhere you have an act after an act after an act, (like) it’s not… It’s not (um), it’s just very different.

Crystal: I don’t want to say there’s no variety but (it-er-I would say-) I would say cabaret…

Victoria: Yeah, it’s like we will have a host and then a performer and thats it but it’s never (like), we don’t have many (like) brunches here or more (like), I just don’t know what I’m trying to explain.

(39:00)

Crystal: There’s a lot of frustration come over you because you don’t have the tools or maybe the funds... to do it, you become very frustrated because you (just) know that if you were at the head of this project whether it’d be starting a brunch or starting a new (er) space that is (er um) not run on the bloods of alcohol (um), is that what-

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: I think that’s what I’m getting from you is that you’re just very frustrated-

Victoria: Yes.

Crystal: -because you know what you can do, you’re capable of doing it, it’s just you just need that knife & fork to go and tuck in.

Victoria: Yes absolutely and (it kind of-) lockdown (kind of) gave me time to think about that, (like) what i’d love to do and now - this is also difficult in drag in general - is I have to work to live so I’m having to work (like) 40 hours just to pay my rent cos’ I can’t just make drag my full-time job yet, unless I really (like) dove right in, but now we’ve had this catastrophic global pandemic now is not the best time to quit a job and go; “I’m going to see if drag works.” Cos’ as we touched on earlier, everyones hiring the same people they were gonna be hiring before anyway, so I’m (just) gonna have to (sort of) start again a bit on that, but… (it-yeah) there is a lot to be done and I need to figure out how I can put my little stamp on my area, somehow.

(40:14)

Crystal: We just gotta hope for a more inclusive-commercial world of drag.

Victoria: Yes. Do you know what frustrates me? Its when I talk about it people go; “Well you just want it to be you or you’re only kicking off about this because you’re not involved and you’ve not asked to be involved” - No, no, no, I will- as I said - I will be fighting until we have that worldwide representation (like really), Drag Race Thailand and done it with their Trans winner, (like) finally, potentially in season 13, but (that-what-it-) that’s not- the job is not done (like), everywhere needs to be completely inclusive.

Crystal: Because of it isn’t then that is just tokenism.

Victoria: Absolutely, couldn’t have said it better myself, yeah you’ve just ticked a box and said “there you go! We’ve put a (er-er) Trans female-to-male- there we go we’ve done our job.” No-no that’s not the end.

(41:04)

Crystal: I would love Drag Race to just be scrapped of its judges and to just have: Nikkie Tutorials, Billy Porter, Peppermint and Jon Van Ness be the new panel and that would just be (like)… bring it on, bring it on because (it’s difficult-) I understand one of the biggest struggles that they think that they are facing - emphasis on they THINK they are facing - is (um) that they feel like they can’t judge someone that they don’t identify as… and it’s just (like-)

Victoria: Ah I wish there was visuals right now.

Crystal: I know we’re just (like-)

Victoria: Voguing.

Crystal: -dancing and we are saying; “I am confusion.” (Um) which is annoying.

(41:45)

Victoria: And the whole; “Oh you know you’ve got an advantage because you’re a woman, because you’ve got boobs… and a vagina.” (like tha-) That really befuddles me, I’m a big gal.

Crystal: Which is, it’s very, very interesting the fact that a lot of people are being misogynistic whilst celebrating the female image…

Victoria: Oh I love- oh it’s so confusing.

Crystal: (er-so) So what do you mean Basil?

• Victoria laughs -

Victoria: “What do you meaaan?” Yes, very that.

Crystal: I feel like we’re gonna be carrying these frustrations on to our next section after the break.

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK, Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet! Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk.

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(43:13)

Crystal: Our next section Victoria, as tradition with this podcast we’ve come from a topic where we’ve been venting our pet peeves of said (pop-of-), we’ve been venting our pet peeves of said topic and we then go into the section that is; ‘Pet Peeves’.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

(43:38)

Crystal: Now Victoria I want you to tell me anything that’s grinding your gears at the moment, anything that’s getting you a bit annoyed, anything at all, lets talk about it, let’s go for it, full engines revved.

Victoria: Well it can’t be bloody misogynists again can it? I feel like we’ve covered that topic!

• They both laugh -

Crystal: Oh I feel like we’re in a town meeting.

Victoria: I know! This needs to be live streamed! Okay, right! Something that’s pissing me off… oh can I swear on here?

(44:07)

Crystal: Absolutely! I’ve been effin’ & blindin’.

Victoria: “Effin’ & blindin’” (um) Ooh god I’m just such a happy person nothing annoys me at all and d’ya know what’s really pissing me off actually?

• Victoria laughs -

Did you hear that? That switch? “I’m just so happy- do you know what’s got me?!” (Um) this fucking heat.

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: This heat.

Victoria: Yes this humidity!

Crystal: I love it, it’s very deceiving, everyones like “Ooh it’s cloudy now, it’s rainy” and I’m like it’s still a hundred degree!

• Victoria chuckles -

Victoria: My vagina’s still looks like a bad kebab!

Crystal: In the words of cabaret London legend David Hoyle; “The world is burning, let’s masturbate!”

Victoria: Yeah the chaffing, the chaffing, I don’t know if you experience that darling, you’re a slimmer queen.

(44:46)

Crystal: I have, I would love for there to be a get together of drag performers just to talk about body-staining & bruises.

Victoria: Okay… yes, injuries.

Crystal: And that’s it!

• They both laugh -

Crystal: Because there a definitely- there are times that I wake up and I look at- I’ve had a shower and I look into the mirror and I think; “Wow that’s different!”

• Victoria wheezes -

And I just- I just don’t go on to (you know) Web MD, I don’t research it, and so far so good!

Victoria: Still pissing clear for now!

(45:25)

Crystal: But I have very bruised inner-thighs from tucking.

Victoria: Oh really? D’ya know-

Crystal: Yes, and I don’t know if it’s just me but I am outing myself as a bruised inner-thigh owner.

• Victoria chuckles -

Victoria: (well thats-) Yeah I guess that’s one thing that I don’t have to experience is the painfulness of tucking, so that’s my disadvantage, but I do-

Crystal: - in sarcastic tone - You women, (you-yo-) you get such a breeze of a life… I can’t believe it.

Victoria: Yes so many more, opportunities for us… We do bleed on our lives, we bleed on our lives which is absolutely horrific in drag when you are praying for there to not be a leakage (um-)

Crystal: I’m sure many Kings out there can feel that vibe as well.

Victoria: Well in there lives yes-yes, the heat, the chaffing, the bruises, the blisters- I’ve got blisters in weird are- do you wanna s- I know the audience can’t see - but do you wanna see one right now?

(46:18)

Crystal: Go for it, go for it, I will, I will we’ll get a (voc-a-) vocal reaction of it.

Victoria: It’s on my heel!

Crystal: You know that’s bad but it’s not as-

Victoria: Look!

Crystal: Oh, okay…

• Crystal cackles -

Victoria: A weird place for a blister!

• Victoria cackles -

Crystal: For anyone that wanted to know it was up her bum.

Victoria: I would need to go on a…

Crystal: I can feel the gas churning in my stomach-

• They both burp at the same time, loudly -

Victoria: Oh me too!

• They both wheeze -

Victoria: Burped in harmony!

Crystal: Oh there we go, you know all bets are off, we’ve talked about bruised inner-thighs, blistered feet and we’re burping down the microphone.

• Victoria giggles -

(46:49)

Crystal: Gorgeous, I think it’s about time we get on to a bit of a more lovely topic here we go let’s do; ‘Somebody To Love’.

Victoria: Aaah.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: In this section Victoria Scone, Victoria S’gone, Victoria- where has Victoria S’gone? I’m… I’m just in this- I’m in a lucid dream now.

Victoria: Scones and jam lucid dream.

Crystal: (Um) The scones, the jam, the marmalade- when I get really loopy I like to shout the word ‘marmalade’.

Victoria: Please do… (er)

Crystal: MARMALADE!

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: (like just…) Very that. ‘Somebody To Love’ is a time for you to talk about someone or something that has kept you going whether it be in life, in lockdown, in drag or in your personal life, tell me.

(47:39)

Victoria: (Um) I would definitely have to say my partner Danni, so I’ve been in lockdown with Danni (um) for, 5 months now we’ve been in lockdown and we’d only been together a few months before that so it was very much like; “Are we doing this? Are we gonna be doing this together? Right! Ok!” Kinda thrown in there, (Um) but we now have moved into our little flat together, in central Cardiff, Cardiff town and it’s been a lovely time, we’ve looked after each other, I think she’s looked after me more than the other way but Victoria needs a lot of looking after as well. (Um) Yeah.

(48:20)

Crystal: That’s stunning, that is so stunning, I’ve always- I’m always fascinated with love and not to be self-deprecating but because I’ve not experience love in terms of a relationship, I think I have always been very, very interested in love and in the romantic (er) world of it and I always get a kick out of when I’m hanging out with someone that is in a relationship or is married, and they have their partner present, I always get a really big enjoyment about asking them (um) why it hasn’t ended? No, I’m joking.

• Victoria wheezes -

Victoria: “Why it isn’t me?!”

Crystal: No, about how they fell in love!

Victoria: Yeah.

(48:58)

Crystal: (You know), and it’s in that moment when you see their sparkles in their eyes, and it’s just so beautiful and lockdown I believe has created and birthed so many different types of relationships and it’s joyous, and thats so stunning that you’ve had someone with you and-

Victoria: Mm I am very lucky.

Crystal: - that supports you and your drag and I want nothing but every single drag performer that is interested in having a relationship in life with someone, I want every single person to be with someone that is their number one fan-

(49:29)

Victoria: Oh absolutely.

Crystal: -I think that’s so important.

Victoria: And that she is. Yeah absolutely, she’s the first- she asks me to tell her before I post something on Instagram so she can be the first one to like it otherwise she gets very angry.

Crystal: Oh thats so! (Is she-) Are you trying on outfits and is she’s like Sharon Osbourne going; “It’s a yes from me!”

• Victoria laughs -

Victoria: Yes! Oh absolutely yes!

Crystal: Oh my god…

Victoria: You bet it, she’s my agent and my assistant.

Crystal: Is there anyone else in your life, lets say within the drag world, that (sort of) is there for you (is your), is your mental punching bag of ideas, or your, maybe someone that inspires you that (just-)it doesn’t matter what they post, they post at the right time, or they are performing at the right time and you witness it and it’s just what you needed?

(50:13)

Victoria: We-we do have a lil’ (um) a group… in Cardiff that was formed (um) since April, since lockdown (again-a just-a few-), a few of us so there’s like a (sort of) Polly Amorous, (um) Scarlett Allure, Melanie Mastore, a few more, Danni’s in there (um) and that was- that little group was formed in lockdown because I got very drunk on my birthday and I don’t know if you saw it…

Crystal: I definitely witnessed it, it was joyous.

Victoria: Yes! And I was-I-

Crystal: You hold yourself very-very well.

Victoria: Thank you.

Crystal: As a sober person of 5 years, I respect and appreciate anyone that can handle their drink, and you handle it not only well but I think - and I don’t want to use dangerous terms here but - you handle it entertainley well.

(50:56)

Victoria: Well I got through two & a half bottles of Tequila Rose, a giant bottle of Prosecco from Lidl-

Crystal: Oh for fucks sake.

Victoria: (Um) And about a litre & a half of Vodka-Diet Coke.

Crystal: It’s ironic that you got a giant bottle from Lidl but thats a whole ‘nother joke.

Victoria: You know the big ones you can get? Oh yeah true, Lidl! A Lidl bottle… A big Lidl bottle.

Crystal: It’s the kinda talk you’d have with your mates; “Shall we get a Lidl bottle? Shall we get a Lidl bottle darling?”

• Victoria laughs -

Crystal: And you rock up with this giant one; “It’s just a Lidl one.”

(51:26)

Victoria: “It’s from Lidl!”

Crystal: “It’s just a-a Lidl bottle of Tequila darling.”

Victoria: And I was singing (um) - to the tune of Sweet Caroline - “Sweet Tiger!” dressed as Carole Baskin, and just, not being a very nice person, on my Birthday and I accidentally created this cult of people that were (like) dying and watching this video of me on my Birthday so we’ve become a lovely little group of friends so shout out to them they’ve held me together through-through lockdown as well, we’ve done a few things together, we’ve spit board ideas, they’ve very supportive with (like) my make up looks, so they’re all lovely people, and they’re me’pals they are.

(52:06)

Crystal: This time has- it’s interesting because if you’d told me that I’d grown super close to (um) suspect no.1 and suspect no.2 at the start of lockdown to the point where we are talking everyday, I’d have gone- I’d have been surprised, there are people that I’ve grown super-super close to and now consider some of them- they’re within my close circle that- (you know) lockdown has just magically put us together closer than ever and it’s definitely been a beautiful part of it, it’s a crazy-crazy time now but we-with you & your partner and with you & your tribe in Cardiff and with your drag and your talent in general, and the scale that you’ve lifted it up to you are, you’re just a brilliant drag performer and a brilliant drag entity Victoria Scone… And I just think you’re epic, and I think that you are gonna be received with EVEN LARGER open arms when everything is back in it’s new normal for you in Wales and I am so excited to see where you will go, and where it will take you, and I just- I just find these people that are incredible and I see how (just-) lacking in opportunity they have and I just wanna shove them on every single cereal box in this country so that everyone knows about you and your amazing talent and (it’s-it’s-) it’s performers that aren’t (just) on the forefront that cis males are, whether- as white cis males are I should specifically, and I just think you’re brilliant, I think you’ve got fabulous things ahead and I (just) can’t wait to see what you have next for us, is there anything coming? Is there anything that you’re looking forward to doing?

(53:49)

Victoria: Er…. well the diaries open I’ve got a few spaces left in (er) 21’22-

Crystal: Don’t! (Tha-that-) You sound like those queens on Facebook-

• Victoria cackles -

that are like; (like) it’s the end of- (it’s like-) not even New Years 2019 and they go: “Oomf 2020’s fully booked!” And i’m like-

• Victoria cackles some more -

Shut it you wanker!.

Victoria: (They’re all-argh-) I saw someone today that was like-

Crystal: “Sorry do you not have 2025 filled out yet? Oooh!”

Victoria: “Ooh!” How are we going to pay the bills? I-I swear I saw someone this morning like; “The calls haven’t stopped coming in-

• Crystal cackles -

(54:25)

Crystal: OH NO!!!

Victoria: -lockdown must be over!” I was like; why would you put that on Facebook?!

Crystal: It’s like being a manager of Woolworths, it’s non-existent babe!

Victoria: Behave… Oh am I plugging anything?

Crystal: Yes!

Victoria: Okay well myself, my diaries open, you can follow me on-on the Instagram cos- oh I just hit 8,000 on there that was nice!

Crystal: You should be hitting 80,000 my darling.

Victoria: Oh thank you darling and um-

Crystal: And not a follower more.

Victoria: You capped there!

Crystal: That’s it! That’s all you get!

Victoria: And (um) I’m really excited for Bristol Pride!

Crystal: And what date is that?

(55:03)

Victoria: That date is… September… the… 12th? I’m just gonna check that for you now.

Crystal: It’s very hard to keep up with the dates at the moment.

Victoria: That is on September the 12th, it is, I believe I got it right.

Crystal: And how can we access that?

Victoria: I believe it’s through their Facebook page…

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: Gorgeous. Well thank you so much for joining me today Victoria I think you’re (I- I’ve done enough-) I just think you’re brilliant Victoria, I think you’re incredible, I can’t wait to see what happens next and I’m your biggest fan, I adore you, and I can’t wait to work with you I can’t believe that hasn’t happened yet!?

(55:39)

Victoria: Yes, I know!

Crystal: I just can not wait to work with you and be able to witness your talent in person, and to give you a big ole’ cuddle girl!

• Victoria giggles -

Victoria: An elbow.

Crystal: An elb-oh fucking hell.

• Victoria cackles -

Crystal: But it’s been a joy to have you on the podcast Victoria, I wish you well and I can’t wait to see what next happens to you my darling.

Victoria: Thank you for having me.

(56:01)

Crystal: Will the scone be gone? Or will the scone’s cream continue to rise?

Victoria: Ooooh I like it.

Crystal: Oooooooh somebody book me.

• Victoria chuckles -

Crystal: Somebody book us!

Victoria: Well yeah. Do you-

Crystal: ‘Crystal & The Cream’ lets do it!

Victoria: Like Christine & The Queens but Crystal & The Cream, (um) do you put cream or jam first?

Crystal: …Cream.

Victoria: Okay I USUALLY- They always go “Jam” and I go “I always cream first.”

• Crystal wheezes -

Crystal: And on that note we’re gonna end the episode, thank you so much Victoria and I’ll see you next time my love!

Victoria: Mwah-mwah-mwah bye!

(56:36)

Crystal: And that does it for another episode of What Are You Like?! With me Crystal Lubrikunt, thank you so much to the wonderful Victoria Scone for joining me for a camp-filled episode, argh what a lovely-lovely-lovely queen they are. If you wanna follow Victoria you can follow them on Instagram @VictoriaScone, thats @VictoriaScone, all one username, hit them up, book them, they are absolutely incredible. And if you wanna follow me on Instagram thats C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T, Crystal Lubrikunt. Stay tuned for more, but for now take care, stay fabulous but most importantly; stay the hell camp.

Mwah.

• soft & chilled, blues lounge music starts to fade into the background -

Episode End

View Details

Plenty of tea-spilling ahead as Crystal Lubrikunt is joined by Cardiff's award-winning Victoria Scone as they talk - mostly cackle - about all things cis-male exclusive, theatre favourites, misogyny, Drag Race and gender-fuckery! This is an episode full of fun, fabulousness & laugher with one of the campest queens of Wales! 

Music by Kevin Macleod

Full transcript available to read at http://whatareyoulike.libsyn.com/

View Details

Award-winning, cabaret king & Mr. Boylesque 2019 Mark Anthony joins Crystal as they get to know more about what Mark Anthony is truly like. From Queer Ancient History, J.K Rowling, their upcoming short film 'marks' and Peter Pan we go all over the shop when it comes to a bloody lovely conversation. Prepare to be informed, entertained and feel the love with one of London's top drag kings. 

Music by Kevin Macleod 

Full transcript available at whatareyoulike.libsyn.com 

View Details

(00:00)

• funky background music plays softly -

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? My name is Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my podcast; What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they are REALLY like…

(00:19)

It could go one way or another, but prepare for good vibrations, good conversation, and most of all… campery. So start strolling, or grab your cuppa’ tea wherever you are in the world, whatever you may be doing, just make sure you stay hydrated, its hot out there folks! It’s summer, it’s humid and we are sweaty Betty’s… But any-who, let’s get on with Episode 2.

(00:37)

Crystal: Award-winning, charming and all round cabaret king, I am so pleased to be talking to Mark Anthony today. Mark exploded on to the London drag scene in 206 and over the years has snagged titles such as winning Not Another Drag Competition in 2018, and becoming the official Mr. Boylesque 2019, making them one of the hottest, well-respected acts on the Queer London scene. But what keeps them going? What makes them tick? Lets see as we find out what they are really… like.

(01:12)

Crystal: Hi Mark, how are you?!

Mark Anthony: Hi i’m great!… Still great.

• Mark laughs -

Crystal: (We had) We had a few technical difficulties but we’re here.

Mark: Yes, we recorded the world’s shortest podcast.

• Crystal & Mark laugh -

Crystal: … It literally cut out after “Hello how are you” ?!

Mark: “Hi how are you, I’m great, goodbye”

• They both continuing laughing -

Crystal: It was really funny…

Mark: Your voice trips switches. You can put that (as your) as your tagline; the voice that-that trips fuses.

(01:38)

Crystal: That is the testimonial - Mark sniggers - I’ve been waiting for.

Mark: Well there you go.

Crystal: Game-changer, switch-hitter, (I-) I’m down with that. How’ve you been? It’s quite warm today, I’ve got the windows closed and everything I am like a little steam room in here.

Mark: (I’m-) I’m good I have windows fully open… I’m not as willing to commit to the soundproof box as you are.

• Mark sniggers -

Crystal: Well you sound lovely my end, so it’s all good.

(02:00)

Mark: Great!

Crystal: (um) How have you been in lockdown?

Mark” (er) Up & down, it’s been a fun, olde roller coaster, while I have appreciated it in some ways, I’ve tried to appreciate what it’s let me do in terms of actually enforced resting and (like) sorting my brain out and other things (I think) much like other people.

Crystal: Totally, totall- (I mean) I was (er) lucky enough to tune in to (er) The House Of Grand Parade show and you did the most absolutely, astoundingly fabulous number - Mark sniggers - for them.

Mark: Yeah that was quite fun.

Crystal: I can’t remember, (what-w) what was the song, what was the song that you did for that?

(02:32)

Mark: Razzle Dazzle from Chicago

Crystal: Oh it was soo good! - Mark sniggers - It was so good Mark!

Mark: Aw thank you.

Crystal: I was sat (and I was just) like “Oh my god this is genius!” and you’ve also been working on Marked & Snatched…

(02:44)

Mark: Yeah…

Crystal: Which is your fabulous- is it stoning or actually creating the entire look?

Mark: It’s both (so um) Lilly is… Lilly Snatchdragon, my partner obviously is (like) the master of rhine-stoning so give her anything and she will rhinestone it.

• Mark chuckles -

(Um) but I, because I make most of my own costumes or clothing to make them into costumes, so basically in this fun period of lockdown where you’ve got to try and monetise all of your skills, (um that’s wh-) that’s what we try to do, so we do; (yeah) commissions for props (um) did a pretty cool tampon crown for Chiyo recently.

(03:16)

Crystal: Amazing.

Mark: That was really fun (um) so yeah just stuff like- pretty much anything at this point.

Crystal: I love that, I love that. And I believe it’s already been achieved and it’s way but there was a crowd-funded short film all about you called ‘marks’ is there anything you wanna talk about with that?

(03:32)

Mark: That was really cool actually, it was (like) a weird last minute thing that I was- it’s about my top surgery basically, and the- (so kind of like) they started filming (like) a week before I had top surgery, then they came to the hospital with me, filmed a bit before that and then they filmed my first time back on stage after having top surgery so it’s quite a cool lil’ snap shot of a…

(03:52)

Crystal: A lil’ gem to look back on.

Mark: Yeah! Definitely, we weren’t sure if it was gonna get anywhere or get picked up but that’s the way it was put at the very least it’s a cool (kind of) memorial I have of this period of time in my life (er) which is incredibly meaningful so.

(04:08)

Crystal: That’s incredible.

Mark: And it’s come out really well!

Crystal: I’m really looking forward to watching it, it looked- the trailer and (you know) the authenticity of your relationship with your partner Lilly, (you know) I don’t think a lot of people truly know what goes through that change in life, and I think it’s important for people to see it and to have a point of reference that will be this film is gonna be brilliant. (I-) I’m really excited to watch it.

(04:32)

Crystal: First & foremost, at the top of this podcast I wanna ask you yourself; what are you like?

• Mark chuckles -

Mark: What am I like?

Crystal: Yeah what are ya like?

Mark: Ooh that’s a good question… find it quite hard to-to describe that cos I find i’m quite (like-) very different to different people, if anyone- (cos a’yeah) Mark & Issac are quite separate entities (er) I think Issac’s like… I-I often get mistaken for being a little bit withheld or shy, but I don’t think I really am, I’m quite a sociable person where I think I’m just (like) a bit defensive because of (like) the way I’ve moved through life and the way people treat me as a trans person or whatever (so-) so I tend to take a minute to be like hmmmm… to work someone out.

(05:13)

Crystal: Scope the field

Mark: Yeah!

Crystal: And I think if anyone was to come and see your show they would think that you were far from shy.

Mark: Exactly (um) which is always quite funny when-when I’ve got (like) old friends that come and see me perform (they just, that don’t) they can’t equate the two (er) yes it’s quite a little bit of a mindfuck for them cos’ (yeah) they can’t imagine it and then they see it and are like “ah! Okay!” cos’ Mark’s basically (er) an exaggeration of all the existing parts of my personality that I’ve (kind of) suppressed so…

• Mark chuckles -

(05:41)

Crystal: It’s wild when you do have old friends come to your show that knew you (uh) years ago and then there’s this (er-it-just-there’s nothi-) it’s priceless to go out on that stage and do what we do, and do what we love, and to see their reaction because it is so raw because it’s just - Mark agrees - mind-blowing what (um) what life can do for us and what drag can do for us, it’s amazing.

(06:06)

(um) We’re gonna go on to our first section, Mark, and it is called; ‘7 Things’

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

Crystal: Now your lovely, lovely partner Lilly & I have chatted…

(06:23)

Mark: Mmhm…

Crystal: And they have supplied 7 things but I’m gonna read their in-quote message directly to you - Crystal sniggers - It says; “I am Lilly SnatchDragon and I care not for your rules and Mark has more than 7 words - so I shall give you 10.”

• Mark & Crystal chuckle -

Mark: That is completely expected.

Crystal: So what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna go through these words, one-by-one, and you’re gonna basically (we-we) we are basically gonna decipher why they have chosen these words.

Mark: Okay.

Crystal: So the first word is; ‘Intelligent’

Mark: Okay.

Crystal: Do you consider yourself quite an intelligent person?

(06:58)

Mark: Guess so! I’m quite… yeah (um-) I’m a bit of a nerd (I-I-) went to a fancy university and studied nerdy things so I guess- yeah it’s weird describing yourself as intelligent.

Crystal: I was hoping that you would turn around and tell me that you studied Trampolining at the University Of Slough or something.

• Crystal chuckles -

Mark: Oh yeah 100%, I know a lot about trampolines and springs (umm) I don’t, I know nothing.

(07:20)

Crystal: The second word is; ‘Witty’

Mark: Witty- (well, I mean) I hope so, at least on stage I think I am. I don’t always know where it’s coming from cos’ sometimes I open my mouth 100% convinced that nothing’s gonna come out and then something comes out so… there’s some kind of elf in my brain somewhere.

Crystal: I definitely find that when you’re on stage you have this ‘gentlemen’ demeanour - Mark sniggers - you’re very much a gentleman, and… (I think) the stereotypical gentlemen in-in the world’s head is witty & cheeky, and you definitely embody that.

(07:50)

Mark: I think so.

Crystal: The third word, which is I-I find very, very important especially in this day & age is; ‘empathetic’.

Mark: Oh yeah… (errr a-yeah) thats, that’s a nice word to have used about you, yeah I do (try and-) try and think about how other people are feeling, (I think that) a lot of that comes from (like) not quite being able to engage, or people not being able to quite work me out, (I mean) mostly gender-wise I think, so I (kind of) think I spend a lot of time second-guessing what people are feeling and what they want from me to try and… (I don’t know…) does that make sense? Try to figure where to put myself.

(08:21)

Crystal: Totally… For our listeners that may not be as informed as others (er) how do you identify?

Mark: I identify as Non Binary or Trans Masculine depending on how many words I can be bothered to type out - Mark sniggers - it’s the forms and…

Crystal: It depends on the energy of the day!

Mark: Exactly!

Crystal: Now the fourth word is; ‘patient’.

Mark: (I mean,) with Lilly, (she’s…) she’s a very passionate, energetic person so patience is key.

• Mark & Crystal chuckle -

(08:50)

Crystal: (I mean) she’s an icon to say the least.

Mark: She is an absolute icon, she is.

Crystal: Now the fifth word is; ‘trustworthy’.

Mark: Ooh that’s good to know, well i’d like to be that - Mark sniggers - ah that’s quite nice yeah, I’m quite liking these words.

Crystal: It’s quite nice isn’t it?

Mark: Yeaaah!

Crystal: You can keep a secret!

Mark: Yeah.

Crystal: The sixth word Lilly’s given us is; ‘generous’.

(09:08)

Mark: Broke but generous.

• Mark & Crystal chuckle -

Crystal: Too real.

Mark: Generous with time I guess is all I have to give.

• Mark sniggers -

Crystal: Well I’d like to consider these words are (er) a pre-lockdown word as well I would say.

• Mark chuckles -

Mark: Yes, stingy as fuck now.

Crystal: Before lockdown I wouldn’t have shared my Quality Street, now? Go on then.

Mark: Yeah fuck it.

(09:29)

Crystal: I feel like these last 3, (er) because I have combined the last two together because I think it’s beautiful, but the last 3 I think are really stunning, now the first of the last 3 is; ‘brave’.

Mark: (Oh) …I’m gonna have to say some nice things back to her later - Crystal & Mark snigger - cos’ these are really nice words, yeah I don’t know I try to…

Crystal: I think it’s pretty brave to be a performer but I also think it’s pretty brave to obviously have this short film made about you.

Mark: Yeah.

Crystal: And it’s completely shoving you in a (vuna’rab-) vulnerable light.

(09:55)

Mark: Yeah… (yeah that was-) that was quite intense I wasn’t… it was very strange to-to be cast in that (kind of) vulnerable light, yeah because the whole thing I’m Mark at the end of it but the whole thing’s (like) it’s about, me… in real life and being at the hospital, being filmed at a hospital before having surgery is an insanely vulnerable moment as well because I was (like) not wearing my binder because they had to… (um) put me in a hospital gown and stuff, and they were there the whole time doing that so it was (like) a very intense thing, (I wouldn’t-) I wouldn’t have let, (um) I’m barely comfortable with my parents being there in that (kind of) situation, so having a whole film crew was (like a) a massive thing but (I-I just) I thought it was valuable thing for other people to be able to see.

(10:38)

Crystal: I really think it is (a brilliant) a brilliant thing you could’ve done and you did do it, and you should be so proud of that.

Mark: Thanks.

Crystal: The second to last word is; ‘insecure’.

Mark: Oh yeah… Big time. I mean I’m yet to meet a performer that isn’t.

• Mark sniggers -

Why-why else do we do this?

(10:53)

Crystal: I was discussing with Coco Peru the other evening (um) who is on a previous episode and we both were talking about how… I think as humans and especially what we were passionate about was that, we would be more intrigued by people that are willing to show both the good light, and the bad light of themselves, and we find people that-

Mark: Yeah.

Crystal: -consider themselves 100% light, 100% (you know) a beaming positive energy, (wha-) that they concern us.

• Mark & Crystal snigger -

Mark: Yeah that’s not a self aware person I would say.

Crystal: And the last two, which I’ve combined together because I just think it’s just (such a-) such a lovely thing is; you’re ‘romantic’ & ‘the keeper of her heart’.

(11:38)

Mark: Aw!… She’s good at words isn’t she?

• Mark sniggers -

Crystal: Very good at words.

Mark: Yeah I try to be (I think-like-) at the start of our relationship (she-she wasn’t) she’s not a very romantic person necessarily and I’m quite a cheesy, romantic person so (I think) I just bombarded her with it until… she started to absorb it and do it herself.

• Mark sniggers -

Crystal: And you met Lilly at a show right?

Mark: Yeah at a competition, she was (um), I did Not Another Drag Competition (like) 2018… (errr)

Crystal: Mmm!

(12:06)

Mark: And she was the head judge (so) and (that was pretty mu-) I met her once before that at The RVT, and she did her (like) EWOK burlesque act and that was just everything I didn’t know I needed in my life. So!

- Mark sniggers -

Crystal: So we now have discovered Mark Anthony’s kink, it is EWOK & Star Wars.

(12:23)

Mark: (I mean) anyone who’s seen that act will tell you it’s deeply confusing & troubling.

• Crystal chuckles -

Mark: It really is.

• Mark chuckles -

Crystal: If that isn’t the two definitions of the London Queer scene then I don’t know what is. Deeply troubling!

Mark: Be prepared to question a LOT.

(12:42)

Crystal: And I think all these words sum up such a (er) strong person, I would say as well, I think you’re very strong, I think to do what you’ve done with the film and also on stage to command the way that you do, I really do think that you bring such an edge of- you’re very dynamic especially, you’ve recently done an act where the entire look - again - is created by you, you’re very innovative with your burlesque and there’s no surprise that you are Mr Burlesque 2019, it really is no surprise to me so… I think, ’strong’ is one that comes to mind when I think of Mark Anthony especially.

(13:16)

Crystal: We’re gonna move on to our next section, it’s called; ‘True Love’.

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

Crystal: ‘True Love’ I want to know, is there something in life that you’ve loved since- as early as you can remember, since birth or since you were young… (um) we’re all young, sorry I’m just gonna echo that we STILL are young.

• Mark sniggers -

Mark: I was gonna say “Excuuuuse me?!”

Crystal: We’re still young and- something you’ve loved and always loved, is there anything that you can think of?

(13:45)

Mark: (Um) I am a proper nerd, (so) I’ve always loved- I thought I was gonna be an archaeologist so I’ve always loved (like) Ancient History (um) & Greek Myths, and all that stuff that’s just mainly incredibly Queer but you don’t realise that when you’re a kid.

• Mark sniggers -

(14:00)

Crystal: Is there anything that you’ve learnt that (er) through Ancient History that has… that is an untold Queer fact or story that you love to share.

Mark: So many things, (um) it’s so weird because a lot of, (like) a lot of what we get from Ancient Greek stories & text have come down and been translated at some point by a Christian scholar so, (the…) we’ve had these assumptions for so long that this is- our assumptions about gender & sexuality have been the same for thousands of years in (like) the white, western world when actually they were very narrowly interpreted by a small group of people at one point in history.

(14:38)

Mark: So there’s a story in (um) in an Ancient Greek text called Plato’s Symposium and this- this is where half of your listener’s turn off.

• Mark chuckles -

Crystal: Don’t you bloody dare.

Mark: No it’s interesting! It’s about Queer stuff, (um) that humans originally were (like) dual-beings so, they had two parts, some had two male parts, some had two female parts and some had one female & one male parts, (so like) the way it was drawn was two figures back to back, and each figure is either-of the same or with a different (um) sex, (err) and the story goes that-that’s the origin of love. That the God’s punished humans by splitting them in half and now we’re just running around trying to find the other half of us. (Um) but I just think it is a wonderful thing that there’s this idea (that) that the story’s about love but the assumption is that there was three interpretations of a human’s gender at that time.

(15:30)

Crystal: It really is mind-blowing, (I mean it goes-) one thing that always goes into my head is how colonialism led to people having anti-trans mentalities.

Mark: It could just be in a moment of interpretation, (like) I’m fascinated but this-this thing in the bible (they-) at the end of Invictus where it says (like) man should not lie with man, that was only translated to that for the first time in 1946 (like) before that (it-) everyone translated it as man should not lie with young boys. It’s got nothing to do with homosexuality and yet so much suffering and legislation has been based on this one choice to translate a word in a certain way.

(16:06)

Crystal: It’s barmy, it is so barmy but it is amazing that people like you and historians all across the world can RE-translate it.

• Crystal chuckles -

Mark: I think that is gonna- yeah, there’s important work to do.

Crystal: Right! Now it is time for ‘Topic Of Choice’.

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

(16:29)

Crystal: From people, food, music, film to current affairs, (you know) all bets are off, is there anything you wish to talk about today.

Mark: I was thinking about choosing something happy & light-hearted but I feel like the thing that’s currently occupying my brain for most of the time is the-the J.K Rowling effect.

Crystal: Yes… Very much, I think it’s affected the Queer scene with their words and their actions especially, I don’t know on your upbringing but Harry Potter played a big part in my upbringing, in terms of escapism, (er) so it was very disappointing to see someone a part of… a big part of my escapism, come out as a complete ignorant imbecile.

(17:11)

Mark: (Yeah it-its…) it’s hurtful, it would be hurtful from anyone with that kind of reach, but (yeah) there is something about it that’s almost feels like she’s gone back in to your childhood and (kind of) ripped it apart. (This-) this thing you always had, especially (like) our generation, so much of our (like) imagination is-is built on this Harry Potter world that almost, to me it always (kind of) existed (as like) parallel to my own world, (even) I was genuinely disappointed when I didn’t my Hogwarts letter age 11, and a part of me is still waiting for it… So!

• Mark chuckles -

Crystal: It’s troubling because it shows a level of… toxic self-importance.

Mark: Yeah.

(17:49)

Crystal: From her part.

Mark: Platforming yourself to be the person that gets to speak about these things with- and (it’s the) it’s the way that she gives herself authority as if she is speaking from a place of deep knowledge, research & scientific awareness, it’s not saying “Oh I think these things” its; “these things are true, based on this one article that I found that is supported by absolutely no one in the scientific community” it’s-

Crystal: And she’s also a very good writer, and she’s using that to her strength.

(18:19)

Mark. Mm…

Crystal: - entirely in these arguments, and ultimately! She’s just being a bit of a dickhead.

Mark: Just.. if you sum it up, yeah! Being a knob.

Crystal: (Like) she’s just being an absolute knob and I am obviously disgusted by what they have been saying but (you know) there are a lot of people that have played a part in her creations; in the films, and I’m sure in the publishing world, that feel even more gooped.

(18:46)

Mark: For sure, yeah.

Crystal: To know that they’re a part of a franchise that now is rooted in problematic views… it’s-it’s (er) I don’t know what can happen from this point other than encourage that they better the fuck outta themselves.

Mark: (At least it’s just-) yeah you just have to- it’s weird, as a Trans person you almost have to be an academic because you have to (kind of) have all the these facts and things at your fingertips so when someone says something ignorant & stupid you can come in with a “I think you’ll find!” and be able to back it up - Mark sniggers - otherwise people will tear you down!

Crystal: (Yeah but) it’s a shame that you have to give your energy to these people, it shouldn’t have to be the case…

Mark: Yeah…

(19:20)

Crystal: Everyone should be knowing about this and learning about this, using unfortunate idiots like J.K Rowling at the moment to educate themselves, it shouldn’t be the Trans community or with ‘Black Lives’- the Black & Brown community, (um to-) It shouldn’t be down to them to give their energy to (especially er) people like me; cis & white folk, it should be down to us.

Mark: Yeah.

Crystal: And that’s what’s ridiculous is that she’s brain-washing, and she’s conditioning people, and it is… overall; ‘Swish & Flick’ fuckery Mark Anthony.

Mark: (Yeah) well I’ve decided that the Harry Potter novels actually happen the same way as Mormonism; they were just delivered to the top of a hill and found by someone on these bronze tablets (and-) and that’s how we got Harry Potter.

(20:05)

Crystal: 100%, I think there- (there is no harm)… I don’t think there is any harm in disassociating someone from their body of work. Right we’re gonna take a little break Mark!

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet!Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(21:02)

Crystal: So far in this podcast, whenever I’ve done ‘Topic Of Choice’ it has allowed (er) my guest to talk and vent about something that may be frustrating them, and then straight after the break we go into what? ‘Pet Peeves’.

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

Crystal: So Mark!

• Mark chuckles -

Crystal: (You can-) you can tell me a list, you can give me (just) one big one, tell me anything that is grinding your gears at this moment.

(21:30)

Mark: People who think that ‘not wearing masks is an act of (like) radical rebellion against the government’? That’s-that’s quite annoying.

Crystal: Cos’ plot twist, it’s not.

Mark: No (it’s, it’s) it’s a small piece of cloth on your face… that’s what it is.

Crystal: I went out into London yesterday for the first time in 5 months, and (er) I’m gonna just say it; it’s not hard.

Mark: It’s really- of all the things.

• Mark sniggers -

Crystal: It’s really not hard, and to be honest with you there were elements of this ‘new normal’ that… I felt safer.

Mark: Mmm.

(22:02)

Crystal: ‘Specially on the tube.

Mark: (I’m-) I’m loving the personal space, as far as I’m concerned that should just be a thing.

Crystal: Especially in this heat, to be on (a-) a sparkling clean Metropolitan line with no one bothering me, it is joyous to say the least.

Mark: It is, it is (you know)… pros & cons.

(22:21)

Crystal: I saw that (er) recently someone streaked across London wearing a mask over their private parts and-

Mark: Oh yeah…

Crystal: (Just small-) the small little acts that people think is gonna be clickbait I’m like; no it’s exposing yourself as an arsehole.

Mark: Just, eurgh…

Crystal: Stop being an arsehole. I’ve got it on m’laptop, I’ve got it on (er) lots of things around my house is just-don’t be a dick, and this mask culture? I for one am mask for mask I don’t know about you Mark?

• Mark chuckles -

(22:45)

Mark: (I was-) I am 100% mask for mask.

Crystal: Good to know your preferences, good to know your preferences.

Mark: Mm.

Crystal: We’re gonna move straight on to our next section which is called; ‘Somebody To Love’.

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

Crystal: ‘Somebody To Love’ is a time for you to talk about something, or someone that is- that you are loving right now, whether it’s a musician, or an artist, or someone in pop culture, someone in your home or something, a new biscuit you enjoy (you know) anything that is keeping you going right now, lets talk about it.

(23:20)

Mark: Well, (in terms of-) in terms of people I pretty much have just been locked up with one person this entire time which is; Lilly, which (er yeah) she’s probably been the thing that’s keeping me going, keeping me sane.

Crystal: I love that you say Lilly like - in an assertive tone - “Lillyyyyy!”

Mark: “Lillyyyyy”

• Crystal & Mark chuckle -

Crystal: “Lilly darling!”

Mark: “Lilly darlin-“ it’s weird cos’ obviously (we-) we don’t call each other Lilly & Mark at home because that would just be weird, as if living our entire lives within the fantasy of drag (er) would be entirely functional.

(23:47)

Crystal: But in the dressing room it’s “Lilly, Lilly darlin’”

Mark: it is, “Lilly darlin’”

Crystal: “Grab the stones”

• Mark chuckles -

Mark: (Just-) “there’s something over there that isn’t rhinestoned?”

Crystal: “You see that fire exit sign there? I think it could with a bit of-a sparkle.”

Mark: “Just to warn you, someone has a costume that isn’t rhinestoned”

(24:02)

Crystal: Is there anything else that is keeping you (sort of ent-) entertaining you, or you’re loving it?

Mark: I’ve had finally-had the opportunity to start getting into writing, which I used to love to do but never found any time for-to actually work on (um) so I’ve been doing that a lot, I’ve bene doing a Creative Writing Course.

Crystal: Oh amazing!

Mark: (Er) just a free one - obviously - Mark sniggers

(24:27)

Crystal: And what has it brought you thus far?

Mark: (It’s just-) I think sometimes when you’re performing, and working and it’s a (kind of) constant grind, you lose time to have the freedom to actually create things? So I suddenly found myself stuck in a bit of a rut just before lockdown where whenever I’d try to come up with something it would be a lot more like ‘What do people want to see from me? (What-) what can I make that will be successful or that people will enjoy?’ Which… it wasn’t ‘What can I make that I love and I’m really excited about?’ Writing and… recently I wrote a (like) sample for a script, for a play that (I did-a) I got shortlisted for writing it but didn’t get it, but I wasn’t dissappointed because I managed to produce this thing that was completely different from this… ‘Mark’ headspace that I was trapped in and (kind of) remind myself…

(25:15)

Crystal: (I mean) you know as creatives we don’t get (um) ‘employee of the month’-

Mark: Mm.

Crystal: -we don’t get (er-er) a corporate pat on the back so the fact that you were shortlisted for something- that is being creative outside of performing, that’s amazing.

Mark: Exactly, I had such a (like a) small thing and didn’t actually result in any - Mark chuckles - monetary or otherwise gain (it just-) it reminded me (that) how much I love creating things, and that I don’t have to trap myself in this little box because I am trying to succeed in a specific industry, and I think that-that’s gonna... (er-as) as soon as I started writing I had a million different act ideas pop up in my head so you just let yourself, go.

(25:50)

Crystal: That’s brilliant, it’s just the creative flow; (I mean) I studied it a lot - about the creative flow - when I was at university and (it) once you’re in it (it’s-it’s-) it’s priceless, it really is priceless is there a direction that you could see your writing going in or is this play that you were shortlisted for, is it something that you wanna (sort of) elevate further?

Mark: I hope so, (I mean) I’d like to-to write (some-) some more… some plays for Trans characters really, (um) I had this idea of re-writing Peter Pan (like) focussing on The Lost Boys, cos’ in my head Peter Pan’s like (like) a Trans Masculine person cos’ he’s always described as being (kind of) trapped in childhood or forever young, and that’s (kind of); when you’re Trans Masculine, (that-that is-) everyone thinks I’m 17, I’m 26 because (you just) you get, it’s the Peter Pan effect that a lot of us refer to so, (um) kind of had that idea and then making a (kind of) Pantomime, Peter Pan Pantomime, but it’s (kind of) twisted, cos’ you never really find out who The Lost Boys are and how they’ve all ended up there, and… stuff like that, (I think-) I think… (yeah) I get frustrated - which I often do about seeing a lack of representation - then something you can do is create that representation, there’s no place for Trans people to play roles so I’ll write one.

(27:01)

Crystal: That is the way to go and you never know what you could do with that impact and-

Mark: Mm.

Crystal: -that is… (I think…) I think a lot of the industry needs get in to that mindset now of (you know) creating space, (you know) people think that just cos’ it wasn’t there doesn’t mean it can’t exist.

Mark: Yeah, definitely.

Crystal: Especially in this time where (er) people are unsure of going back to the workplace in terms of being a performer, and being a creative, it’s difficult and a lot of people are (sort of-you know-I don’t-) I hope this time doesn’t push people to the wayside I want people to have the same amount of passion they had for being inclusive as they did (er) pre-CoVid, and I think with plays and creatives like yourself you are going to, and you have been changing the game.

(27:51)

Mark: (I mean) It’s a huge opportunity, to (kind of) as shitty and stressful as it’s been not having any income and trying to rework your entire career to work under these weird change/circumstances, it is a huge opportunity we have at the moment to (kind of-almost) reset (um) and start again, and (ki-) when things do start up again we’re gonna have to adapt to a million different circumstances anyway and if addressing diversity/representation can be a part of that then there’s no better time to really do it cos’ the Status Quo (is-) has already been disrupted.

(28:25)

Crystal: Totally, I really do look forward- I think (it’s-it’s difficul-) it IS difficult to find a lot of… to find some positivity in the world at the moment but something I do really look forward to is for when we are a lot older and (er millen-) the generation that is millennial is in power, it’s gonna be so exciting to see who is leading, and who they may be and what they may represent I think it’s gonna be a completely different world that we are living in, just as long as we get through the current one.

• Mark chuckles -

Mark: I hope so.

Crystal: Now we are coming to end of the interview Mark, (um) do you have anything to plug?

Mark: Marked And Snatched is the biggest thing that I’m (kind of) meaning to plug right now, it’s (er) commissions, pre-made (err sort of), unique rhinestoned accessories really like bow ties, pet accessories…

(29:13)

Crystal: What is the weirdest or most-unexpected thing you’ve had to stone so far?

Mark: I guess the-the pet collection has (- I don’t kn) I’m (kind of like) a practical pet person that when I see pets dressed up in ridiculous outfits this part of me is like; “Oh… no” but now I have a whole range of rhinestoned pet accessories, and they do look adorable! Now I’m like; well we’ve put them on our cat and I’m like; actually, (there’s-) there’s something about this that is improving my day. So… - Mark Chuckles -

Crystal: And is there a look that you’ve put together that you are most proud of through (er) Marked And Snatched?

(29:43)

Mark: I’m super proud of the Tampon Crown that we made for Chiyo, I think it came out looking really incredible.

Crystal: They’ve made it their merchandise haven’t they? I ordered a t-shirt yesterday so it’s now solidified in history on… it’s gonna be worn by people!

Mark: This is what I love about this industry is someone will message you one day saying “Hey so I really want a crown made out of tampons can you do that?” and you just say “I don’t know how but yeah sure.” And then you figure it out! And then you’ve made a crown made of tampons.

(30:07)

Crystal: And it is now a piece of queer history!

Mark: Exactly.

Crystal: Well thank you so-so much for coming on my podcast today Mark it’s always a joy to speak to you-

Mark: Thank you for having me.

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

Crystal: I look forward to seeing you back in the new normal, back on the road, we work together from time to time-

Mark: Yeah.

Crystal: And I wish you nothing but the best, I wish you joy & happiness with Lilly, I saw the campaigns that happened over Pride season, people that don’t know; Mark & Lilly were a part of a campaign called Pride Inside, and you were on a humungous billboard right?

Mark: Yeah we were on loads of billboards, all the Clear Channel- Clear Channel gave over all of their billboards (to this-) to this Pride campaign so for a week we were driving past our own faces which was very strange but- yeah it was really cool.

(30:47)

Crystal: (It’s just-) it’s so phenomenal thought we are living in a weird time there are still - as I said - there are still positives to (sort of) hold on to and that campaign was definitely one of them, especially having Pride season in lockdown. And-

Mark: Yeah.

Crystal: As it has been (sort of) posted, I feel like it’s comfortable saying that you & Lilly are engaged and that is super-super exciting.

• Mark chuckles -

Mark: Yeah, yeah.

Crystal: Super-super exciting (um just), you are a part of such a beautiful story together, and as individuals, I think that’s something that I’d like to (sort of) echo is that you two are incredible people individually and you are an incredible person, I’m so excited for the new film ‘marks’ to come out and, for where you will go with Marked And Snatched, especially with the industry… the industry is wildly flourishing! In lockdown…

(31:34)

Mark: Yeah…

Crystal: In a weird ways, you know?

Mark: We’re like cockroaches, you can’t get rid of us, we’ll just adapt and survive.

• Mark chuckles -

Crystal: We are like CHER, and cockroaches! You can not get rid of us! Well thank you so much for joining me Mark!

Mark: Thank you.

Crystal: I wish you well, and I’ll see you next time.

And that does it for another episode of What Are You Like?! With me, Crystal Lubrikunt, thank you so much to Mark Anthony for their time and their energy on a really insightful and lovely episode. If you wanna hit up Mark, you can hit them up on Instagram at @MarkAnthony.dragking, and you can also hit up Marked And Snatched on Instagram as well at @MarkedAndSnatched, get yourself something sparkly you know what I mean? I’ve been Crystal Lubrikunt, that’s C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T (@CrystaLubrikunt) on Instagram, and please! Stay the hell hydrated out there, stay the hell fabulous, and most importantly; stay camp. I’ll see you in the next one, buh-bye.

View Details

For the last 3 decades Miss Coco Peru has dominated the drag world around the globe through award-winning cabaret, conversation & iconic YouTube content. Crystal Lubrikunt is joined by the drag legend as they delve into Coco's life, thoughts & analysis on her style of performance, vulnerability, fans, friends & most importantly, litter bugs.

Music by Kevin MacLeod

Full transcript available on whatareyoulike.libsyn.com

View Details

(00:00)

Crystal Lubrikunt: Y’alright? Got your cuppa tea? Then let’s go!

• funky background music plays softly -

My name is Crystal Lubrikunt; I’m a camp drag performer and international potato from London, and welcome to my brand new podcast What Are You Like?! Each episode I’ll be inviting a fabulous special guest on and we’ll be finding out what they REALLY, are like. It can go one way or another, but be prepared for good vibrations, good conversation and most of all, campery.

So start strollin’, grab your cuppa tea wherever you may be in the world, whatever you may be doing, just make sure you use the right amount of lube- biscuits! I said… Biscuits! And let’s get started.

(00:35)

• soft, mysterious lounge music plays in the background -

Crystal: A master of their craft for almost three decades, my first guest on What Are You Like?! Is nothing short of a drag legend. From writing & starring in over 10 headline cabaret shows and tours across America, and the world, to making iconic appearances in Will & Grace, Too Wong Foo Thanks For Everything Julie Newmar!, Trick and Wigstock: The Movie, to interviewing fellow icons such as Liza Minelli, Bea Arthur, Jane Fonda and more! To - of course - creating Youtube GOLD direct from her living room, and her local supermarkets it’s the entertainer, the comedian, the activist and one of my personal inspirations, the legendary… Miss Coco.. Peru.

(01:18)

Crystal: Hello Coco!

Miss Coco Peru: Hello Crystal

Crystal: How are you doing on this Tuesday - well - lunchtime for you, evening for me?

Coco: I’m on a diet - Crystal’s wheezy laugh can be heard in the background -

It’s only the second day so it probably won’t last, I’ve lost all willpower but (er) i’m fine i’m a little warm, it’s warm here in Los Angeles.

Crystal: I bet, I bet it is, it’s warm here and that says a lot, here in little ole’ London.

(01:41)

Crystal: First & foremost (um) thank you so much for being my first guest on What Are You Like?! It is an absolute honour and a privilege to have you here.

Coco: Thank you.

Crystal: My absolute pleasure, and.. I’ve just got a quick question for you; what are you like?

Coco: What am I like?… I am complicated! - Crystal joyously laughs - You know?

Crystal: Aren’t we all?

(02:03)

Coco: I am a complicated person person I (um) I… I run the gannet of… - you know - if anybody has seen my show I do think I give them a fair glimpse into what it is to be me (you know) even though i’m doing it as Coco, I’m telling autobiographical stories so… (you know) I can be a very kind, loving… Generous… Thoughtful person and I can be a monster sometimes

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: I believe everyone deserves the right to be Dr. Jekyll AND Mr. Hyde, or in our regards Dr. Jekyll and - Coco joins as they say in unison - MRS Hyde.

(02:42)

Coco: But I’ve always said, and i’ve even expressed it in one of my shows, I believe that everyone has a light side and a dark side and I’m much more interested in being around people who can be honest about both of those sides, anybody that is (just) 100% telling you that they’re… A light person (um) they scare me more than the people who can admit to having (um) dark moments. And that’s where my comedy comes from, is that I-I try so hard to be (er) correct in my thinking and my behaviour and my comedy comes in all the times that I fail.

• Crystal sniggers as Coco joins in with laughter -

(03:25)

Crystal: But that’s the thing (is that) It’s always when you’re working with someone and they say “I’m a good person” That’s when you immediately they’re a bad person!

• Crystal sniggers -

(03:33)

Coco: Oh I know (you know) I made that mistake once, I was with these guys (um) who have a podcast, they’ve had it for many years and I was feeling very vulnerable because of the way I’d been treated by this (um) presenter where I was doing my show, and I-I was not treated fairly and I kept saying to these guys “I’m a nice person!.. I’m a nice person!” And these guys still to this day hold it against me, in a funny way but (um you know) I guess it sounded ridiculous to them that I kept telling them that I was this nice person like I was trying to convince them but it-it was because I was in this vulnerable place of feeling (um) like I had been treated poorly, and didn’t deserve that because “I’M A NICE PERSON!”

(04:20)

Crystal: Yes!

• Coco chuckles -

Crystal: Absolutley! Now speaking of your shows, I last saw you perform at The Royal Vauxhall Tavern in London, April 2018. And must I say it was bloody fabulous, it was joyous, it was (you know) it-it pained me to hear (that you were) The word ‘retirement’ come out of your mouth, it (was just it) ached me because I want that experience that I had watching you to be a shared one for generations to come, but thus is life. Now you were scheduled to come to London (er) at the start of the year, I did have tickets, but unfortunately (um) Corona virus has prevented that from happening (but) I just wanna ask; will you be planning to come back and give us (that show) that 2020 show (er) in the future when we are all able to.

(05:10)

Coco: Yes, I-I look forward to it. I love performing over there, (I wanna tell you) when I first performed in London, it was in 19- (oh god, I don’t know) one? Two? Three? Somewhere in there? And I (um) performed at the place called Freedom Cafe, it was Marc Almond’s boyfriend and he had American drag queens come over and do shows, and I was one of them… And I performed there in London and it was a completely different experience back then performing for a (er) a British audience because they did not know what to make of me.

(05:48)

Here was a drag queen telling autobiographical stories, in a theatre setting so they were sitting very quietly like it was theatre, and then I realised I’m gonna have to start laughing at my own jokes with my piano player to give them permission to laugh. And then it (kind of) let them know (like); oh no this is-yeah, and now with YouTube and this (sort of um) whole world of this drag explosion (and’m) our humour is becoming more interconnected… d’ya know what i mean?

(06:22)

Crystal: Totally.

Coco: Going to London now is like performing here! The audiences are equal!

Crystal: It really-really is.

Coco: (I) When I first was coming back most recently I (um) in one of my shows I mentioned; Target, and I-I asked them I said “should I change it to something else?”

Crystal: We know it!

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: Walmart and Target!

Coco: And the audience cheered! And I thought; my God what a different (you know) what a different world it is to perform now in, in-in London,

(06:51)

Crystal: I guess its similar to when we go over to America and we mention Primark?

Coco: Yeah! I love Primark.

Crystal: See?

• Crystal & Coco laugh -

Crystal: Thats great! We’re gonna move on to our first section Coco are you ready?

Coco: Yes.

Crystal: Lets bring on ‘7 Things’

• a short, funky 80s gameshow style jingle plays as a deepened, reverbed Crystal says in tune ‘Ooh, 7 things, 7 things… about you!’ -

(07:05)

Crystal: Coco I’ve got in touch with one of your drag relatives that is Kiki Ball-Change (@KikiBallChange) of New York City.

Coco: …Yes?

Crystal: And they have described you in 7 words and we’re gonna go through those words now and decipher why they’ve chosen those words. The first word, it’s an obvious one I find; is ‘funny’. Were you always a funny person Coco?

(07:35)

Coco: Yes, I-I think I was, I grew up in the Bronx in (er) very working class neighbourhood… And I was born late in my parent’s life so I hung around my parents and their friends, who were hilarious and I thought in my mind they were celebrities (and) because they were so funny (and) so I just soaked them up and became an observer at a very young age (and) so (um) I think that’s where my humour comes from.

Crystal: Like a humour in humility.

(08:02)

Coco: Yes, I worshipped those people.

Crystal: And the second word is; ‘fabulous’. Were you always fabulous?

Coco: No I was not always fabulous and to this day I’m a huuge nerd.

• Coco chuckles -

Crystal: I love that, i think deep down we are all nerds, I love nerds (um) especially the sweets! Third one is; ‘wonderful’.

Coco: Boy she’s- (what a)

• Crystal laughs -

Coco: She’s kissing my ass!

Crystal: Kiki! Is giving you the good ole’ schmooch! I love it, I love it.

(08:26)

Coco: ‘Wonderful’, well I will say this: Kiki wrote to me as a fan and said “I would like to redo your website for free, because, your website looks like an old person’s website.”

Crystal: I… love that.

Coco: “And I asked some of my friends if they thought your website looks current and they all agreed it didn’t so I would like to offer you that.” And I have always loved young people, I’ve always wanted to (um) foster their careers (… you know) and I said “Sure! Lets work together” And then she did that and she asked if I would be her drag mom and I’m a terrible drag mother!

- Crystal chuckles -

(09:10)

Coco: But (um) I said “Of course!” (you know so) Maybe that’s where i’m ‘wonderful’ is that I… I sort of open my arms to her where she was just a fan but to me my fans are everything, truly, and so I was like “Yeah lets-lets do something together” so that’s how that came about.

Crystal: And Kiki is becoming the most phenomenal performer in the New York scene; such a brilliant talent and a joy, and I think it’s very fitting that you two are now drag relatives because you’re both one in the same in the terms of the- DEFINITELY, ‘wonderful’ (er) ‘fabulous’ and ‘funny’ department.

(09:48)

Now the fourth word is which (kind of) links that one to the next is; ‘considerate’.

Coco: ‘Considerate’… Yeah there’ve been moments where she’s asked for things and I’ve said “Yes” For instance when we went to RuPaul’s DragCon she was helping me out, so they give us this gift bag and there was lots of make-up in there that I would never use because I’m not creative that way and I stick to what I know, and so I was so please to be able to offer that to her (you know) whereas I know some other queens would probably take that home and I try to SELL IT and make some CASH…

• Crystal chuckles -

(10:22)

…Coco Peru is a giver.

Crystal: We have a drag convention in the U.K. called DragWorld and (I) for the last two years have had my drag daughter Rougie assist me and we got a lot of free goodie bag stuff and I threw most of it in her direction, all I wanted was the black eye liner.

Coco: Yeah!

Crystal: That’s all I wanted. Now the fifth word is (Coco: Yes?) ‘warm’.

(10:45)

Coco: Well I think from the beginning of my career that’s something people have always associated… with me, and you saw my show it’s not all comedy, there is a sense of humanity and warmness to it. (Um) I think sometimes (er) a lot of people didn’t quite get that early on in my care- (I mean) actually a lot of people got it early on in my career because right from my first show I got a lot of attention back then. But I think a lot of these (sort of) people in my world (sort of) were put off because I wasn’t “edgy” enough… And to me, I thought I was very edgy by being a drag queen that could present other (er) emotional aspects to myself rather than just being (you know) “fierce” or (you know) have that cutting humour that tears people down, I can do all of that, but I wanted to present a more ‘full picture’ of who I am…

(11:45)

And-and show more sides to myself and I… I had doubts a long the way of feeling that ‘nerdy’ part of myself and I’m so glad that I stuck with it because now young people; when I can go to those places it really does resonate with young people.

Crystal: It really does.

(12:03)

Coco: And (um) that makes me really happy.

Crystal: Because I think even now it… is very much the same with social media; everyones in their own (sort of, you know) ‘paint by numbers’, in the way that people feel they should behave and feel they should act and how they should carry themselves, especially in the drag world so I think when someone comes along and they show such humility it’s commendable because (I think) especially in this day & age; people are thinking that ‘they need to do this’ and ‘they need to do that’ in order to get there and it’s something that I think is always a brilliant thing when someone can just be 100% themselves.

(12:37)

Coco: And anytime I’ve been sensitive in my show and people have (you know, sort of) have maybe been put off by that sensitivity (um) I-I just laugh cos I think (you know I-) the only reason I feel I can go to that place is because I have spent so much time in my show being angry, being self-deprecating, having that cutting humour (you know) that if-if I choose to have a moment that’s somewhat reflective or sensitive I feel like i’ve earned that.

• Coco chuckles -

Crystal: Absolutely, 100%. The sixth word; which I find most interesting of the seven is ‘candid’.

(13:13)

Coco: ‘Candid’… Maybe it’s because I’m a New Yorker?

Crystal: So what made you go to L.A from New York?

Coco: (uh) Well if I might say ‘so candidly’…

• Crystal chuckles -

Coco: I was sick of New York, I grew up there! Honestly I started to feel that there were people moving to New York City who believed that in order to survive in New York City and to ‘make it’ you had to be ‘edgy’ with that edginess there was a rudeness.

(13:43)

And I just was thinking; this is MY city and native New Yorkers are not rude, we might be blunt, we might tell you how are feelings are, we might yell over a table to express how we feel about something, but we’re not mean. I just had so many times where as a effeminate gay man - in my own community I’m talking - that (I just) I just started to feel like I’m done with this city, it’s not the city that I want it to be. I still love New York, and I’m so happy that I’m from there but I think I was just ready for a change and I also got to a place in my life where I thought (you know what?) It’s okay that I like nature, and that I want to see a little bit of nature. Here in L.A I have (you know) my little lime tree that talks

• Crystal sniggers -

to me, my lemon tree that, she’s such a whore I love her.

(14:35)

Crystal: Eurgh everything. (I mean) I live on the- to anyone that’s not from London? I say I am from London, to Londoners? I may as well be in another country. - Crystal laughs - Because I am amongst the forest, and I very much like being amongst the forest.

Coco: When I was staying the guy that produced my show that you saw in Hackney?

Crystal: Ah…

Coco: We were talking one night, there was just a fox sitting there and it was the most beautiful moment and I remember that moment of that fox surviving in all that madness…

(15:04)

And-and the thing was, it wasn’t (um) it wasn’t afraid, we just stood there (kind-of) staring at eachother it was a.. I-I remember that moment. I love-I love nature.

Crystal: I used to live in the centre of a town called Brighton, (and it was) I lived in the centre of the centre and I remember being very suffocated and the minute that I moved back home and was amongst the forest, and had the opportunity - and I have dogs as well so I have (sort of) giving myself a reason to go out and go for walks, especially in isolation and it just is the ticket.

(15:36)

Coco: Yeah, my nephew from Spain lives in Brighton but now he lives in a town outside of Brighton but his biggest complaint about Brighton was about the loud seagulls.

Crystal: Ah yes. Ah… - Coco laughs - Ahhhhh yes… And that’s not a euphemism for the drag queens. (Um) The last word of the seven things by Kiki Ball-Change of Coco Peru, is ‘inspiring’.

(16:00)

Coco: Well I think that (um) yes my-my shows have always been compared to group therapy sessions where people- I have always tried to make my shows so authentically ‘me’ and yet at the same time make them so relatable that people sit there going “oh my god, this is my story” or “this is how i feel” and that was my goal when I created Coco was that (um) I wanted- I knew that storytelling was what really changes people and can inspire people and I wanted people to come see my show and relate to me despite the drag. I wanted them to forget that I was in drag and really… just go ‘is this a man? Is this a woman? Is it a she, he?’ and then realise; none of that matters, what matters is the words, what I’m feeling, how we’re relating to each other, that’s what’s most important to me.

(16:56)

Crystal: It’s like you go on stage and you become everyone’s guardian angel?

• Coco chuckles -

That maybe (like) schmooching on ya’ tusch too much but that’s what it felt like for me (I was) I was in Coco’s world, Coco was my auntie that I did not know I had for a solid 90 minutes and it was everything.

(17:16)

Coco: And I have to tell you; that’s why i love- I-I even hate saying the word ‘fans’ but (um) my fans / friends / Coco Puffs, whatever they wanna call themselves, I-I feel just as - what you just described - I feel that from my audience… where I feel less alone in the world, I feel like there’s other people who think like me when I hear a laugh or cheer or I see someone shedding a tear, it makes me feel less alone so I’m getting something out of it as well except… I’m getting cash.

- Crystal laughs -

So, you know… even better.

Crystal: Absolutely! Eurgh!

- Coco laughs -

Coco: A girl’s gotta make her coin as the kids say!

Crystal: 100%! Now we’re gonna move on to our second section of this interview; it is ‘True Love’

- a slow guitar jingle plays as notable American television personality Thorgy Thor saying “Ok i.. am OBSESSED with mustard, I can’t believe I said that out loud’ is played over it -

(18:16)

Crystal: So what is something you’ve loved and been in love with since birth that still resonates with you today? Something that you’ve been brought up with or known that, since you’ve been able to think and, operate that you’ve always loved and is still with you as one of your biggest loves today.

Coco: Right, so when my manager (um) and you & I were writing before, I was asked if I wanted these questions before we actually did this interview and I chose no, because I wanted whatever the first thing that was to pop into my head be, what we talked about.

Crystal: I appreciate that.

(18:52)

Coco: So what first popped into my head is; music.

Crystal: Ah.

Coco: So when I was a kid… my mother - I had an older brother & sister, I also had another sister that passed away 3 months after I was born, so she was 15 but my other brother & sister were older than her and my brother was already out of the house and he had said to my mother: “Promise me you’ll play the baby music” So my mother used to play music for me, classical music as a kid, and I just think that-that got into my DNA somehow…

(19:27)

And so even to this day when I write, I will listen to music to foster whatever that emotion i’m trying to get in my writing i will listen to music that (sort of) connects me to that emotion… whether it’s funny or heart-warming, whatever it is, and then I (um) So I use music as a creative tool to write.

Crystal: One of the surprises from seeing your show was hearing your beautiful singing voice… Is there a song that you sing at your shows that, if you could pick one song to sing for the rest of your career; is there a particular song that completely jumps in your head right now?

(20:06)

Coco: No… No, there isn’t but one of the songs that I was determined to always sing was The Killing Moon by Echo & The Bunnymen, and (um) and I sang it in that show (and um) to me it’s such a hauntingly beautiful song but what was (sort of) great about it was people who knew the song from the 80s said; “I never thought of the song in the way you interpreted it” and I didn’t change any of the words, and that’s why I (sort of) love the magic as well, not changing the words to a song, but giving them a perspective that (maybe, sometimes) people never thought of it in that way.

(20:48)

Crystal: It’s the magic of music, it’s the magic of performance, and it takes - like you said - what was (um) beautifully - i should say - beautifully drummed into you (as a…) as a child through to now, is you had a sense of musicality and I think that readapting that song for people to listen to, that may have known it, thought they were listening to something brand new (um) it’s special. It’s so special.

(21:16)

Coco: Right, and what was really exciting to me was not only to the people who knew the song (er) reflect on the song, there were so many young people who didn’t know that song that then went out and researched it, cos they wanted to own it (you know)

Crystal: And that’s your gift (Coco: Yeah) to them. Which is…

• Coco scoffs -

Coco: I told you! Crystal! …I am a giver!

• Crystal chuckles -

Crystal: Considerate! Warm! Candid! Inspiring! (Um) We’re gonna go to ou-

Coco: And sometimes, a cunt.

• They both laugh -

Crystal: You know with my name; I appreciate that.

Coco: Exactly. And darling, we need- that’s what it’s all about, keeping a balance.

(21:56)

Crystal: Always. A balance is absolutely mandatory in life.

Coco: Yes. And like I always say; if you’re coming to my (din-) to my house for dinner, and you can’t appreciate a good shit story over dinner? Well, we’re probably not gonna be dear friends.

• Crystal chuckles -

Crystal: Acquaintances at best.

Coco: At best.

Crystal: Now lets move on to ‘Topic Of Choice’

• a blues style jingle plays with flute solo as notable American television personality Tatianna says “We all make choices but that was a choice” and laughs over it -

(22:26)

Crystal: Now from music to current affair’s, food, film & fabulous things, to self care, to that one actor you enjoy or (you know) to that one biscuit you had the other evening that you wanna talk about, is there anything that comes off of the top of your head that you wish to discuss today?

Coco: The thing that I always wanna discuss (when-when) when it’s just open and they “what do you wanna discuss” I am obsessed- and my fans know this, with litter!

Crystal: Eurgh…

(22:53)

Coco: I don’t understand how anybody can throw even the tiniest piece of paper out on to our planet earth it just makes me crazy and these are the same idiots that throw things at the curb and one good rainstorm puts it right down into our rivers that wash right out into the ocean and they’re the first person to cry when a (you know) a dolphin’s choking to death on a plastic cup or a turtle’s got a straw stuck up it’s nose.

Crystal: The first person to share that video (Coco: Yeah!) on Facebook saying “this is so horrible”

(23:22)

Coco: Yeah they’re horrible and I’m like; well (whose) whose doing it?! Whose putting it- but see this (was the-this) was something I have been obsessed with since I was a child. I was put to work as a kid, when I was very young, and my job was to sweep the streets of my neighbourhood, and I grew up in the Bronx in the 70s, so it wasn’t the cleanest… and I grew up in a pretty clean neighbourhood… but even then it was still (um) people just didn’t think about the Earth in the way that they do now, but I did… and I used to fantasise about machines that would clean the Earth, I wanted to live in Disney World - not because of the rides but because it was clean.

(24:03)

So I’ve always been obsessed with it since I was a kid and when I was really little we were driving and I grew up on a little island in the Bronx and we had a North Easter storm, the tides had risen so high that the whole island was littered with garbage that had been in the water, it was stuck in hedges and just all over the sidewalks, and my mother said “Oh my gosh look at all the garbage that came up out of the water!” and I said to my mother “Mother Earth threw up on us” And I really always remembered that, that we had made the Earth so sick with our garbage she threw it right back up on us and (I-I) today I-I still feel that way, I agonise over it.

(24:44)

Crystal: I live - as I’d said - near a forest, and next to the forest is a film studios, and very recently a major movie that is (er) famous for it’s dinosaurs I shall say had just wrapped up it’s shoot in the forest, and they had tonnes of security all over the forest, and it security person and had (like) a pop up chair and (you know) they all had their packed lunches, and I walked past one of their stands later on in the evening where everyone went home, and their rubbish shoved into one of the branches of the trees.

Coco: Insane

(25:15)

Crystal: Is there a moment where you have caught someone littering and you’ve actually intervened and “excuse me!”

Coco: Oh, all the time! My husband’s terrified! And my family is always like “You’re gonna get shot one of these days!” (you know because) I can not keep my mouth shut. I’ll be honest, I’m going to be so honest with you right now…

Crystal: Do it.

(25:34)

Coco: It’s one of the reasons that I am now on Lexapro which is an anti-anxiety- I’m on a very low dosage - 5 miligrams - and I’ve been taking it for two years but my husband & I were in Spain where I am constantly (er) picking up garbage off of the beach, out of the water, people step over- they’re picking up shells and rocks i’m like: could you pick up (you know) could you teach your children to pick up gar- anyway… don’t get me started- but two people threw cigarette buds into the Mediterranean and I… lost it.

(26:07)

Crystal: Oo’h…

Coco: And that’s when my husband - Coco sniggers - said I think you might need medication.

Crystal: Eurgh! (Coco: Because!) I think people need medication for not being arseholes!

Coco: Well! Thank you Crystal because that was my response! (I said) He said “its cos’ you’re always outraged… you’re always outraged” And I said “well i’m outraged- part of my outrage is I’m outraged that no one else seems to be as outraged as i am! We should all be outraged!” But the point was that it was affec- I do believe it was affecting my ability to actually enjoy my moment, the moment that I work so hard.

Crystal: 100%.

(26:53)

Coco: To be able to sit by my husband on a beach (um) I do think the (um) Lexapro has made a difference in my life but it certainly hasn’t diminished my-my passion for a cleaner Earth (you know) all that garbage is a reflection of who we are as peo- (as) a human race.

(27:10)

Crystal: As I said it’ll be the Becky’s sharing it on Facebook that is the same to first break lockdown and go to a beach, and litter all over the beach.

Coco: Exactly.

Crystal: And it’s excruciating to witness it all, and the stupidity of the human race but here we are! - Coco sniggers - Here we bloody are! Now I think it’s time to take a breather and to take, a little short break.

• A chilled-down tempo electronic jingle plays as Crystal advertises cruelty-free, vegan cosmetic line Give Face Cosmetics -

Crystal: Tired of using crap, overpriced make up? Done with using products that aren’t cruelty free and vegan? Wanna go out and look bloody gorgeous?! Then get yourself some GIVE FACE COSMETICS; direct from the UK Give Face Cosmetics are an independent queer brand that have an array of gorgeousness from eyeshadow palettes to foundation, neon pigments to liquid lipsticks, flash palettes and all the glitter you could ask for! And at extremely affordable prices. My personal favourite is the blinding highlighter powder phwoar! Better yet!Their entire range are vegan and cruelty free! To get 10% off your purchase at check out use code ‘CRYSTAL’ for money off! So go for it, what are you waiting for? Check them out at GiveFaceCosmetics.co.uk

• the chilled-down tempo electronic jingle fades out -

(28:18)

Crystal: So now Coco it’s time for ‘Pet Peeves’

• a circus-style jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins famously says “nah i don’t want anymore games, i’m fucking gamed out! Alright lets not start the geezer off” over it -

Crystal: What! Coco is grinding your gears today other than litter?

(28:33)

Coco: Oh okay well! I grew up in a neighbourhood in the Bronx where you learned how to be a good neighbour and so I have a problem sometimes with neighbours who are not considerate, and who may be, blast music in their backyards… so on Sunday I was laying in my backyard reading (er) trying to enjoy my moment and my neighbours decided to blast their music and (um) see I had to remind them that other people also have speakers in their backyards that don’t blast their music cos’ they’re considerate neighbours, and I happened to be one of those neighbours so I go inside and I do this almost every weekend, and I blast my Alejandro Sanz - my favourite Spanish singer, one of my favourite Spanish singers and I was blasting him (yet) on Sunday to remind my neighbours that they’re not the only ones who can blast their music.

(29:30)

Crystal: Touche.

Coco: So then I had to write to my other neighbour who I like and say “i’m sorry about my loud music, i’m just trying to show them-“ and he said “that’s okay I feel like I’m in Epcot Center”

• Crystal cackles -

Coco: Cos’ they were listening to Armenian music, I was listening to Spanish music and he felt like-

Crystal: - in bold American accent mimicking a Walt Disney voiceover - “Welcome to the world showcase.”

Coco: Exactly! - Coco laughs - I have a neighbour that parks on his front lawn which is disgusting to me.

(29:54)

Crystal: Eurgh.

Coco: I have another neighbour who-who has abandoned his car in front of our neighbours house, he sometimes does it in front of our house and because of CoVid they’re not enforcing the laws so he’s totally taking advantage of that- Oh honey I can go on and on and on…

Crystal: Ay-yi-yi…

Coco: The problem is that sometimes I think “Oh I just wish I could just live somewhere where there are no other people” but then I know I’d go crazy because I need to be around movement and people and… so I-I have to find that balance I’m telli- and sometimes when I get crazy about (you know) the neighbours my husband will look at me and go: “10 milligrams?”

• Crystal sniggers -

Coco: “Do we need to bump it up?”

Crystal: Oh my goodness… - Coco laughs - Oh my goodness, now I should ask you how has lockdown been for you?

(30:41)

Coco: Ah (you know) I have ups and I have downs like everybody else, the thing that’s getting me through it is that I count my blessings, that sounds so corny but when I was doing that little video series (of um) ‘ The Little Things Being The Big Things’ truly I… I- that got me through it. I went around my house and was finding all the little things that I could appreciate and celebrate, and so I continue… to try to do that. I- my hope is that creative people stay creative because whenever faced with challenges, that rebirth of real creative change is eminent and I’m hoping that’s the case.

(31:25)

Crystal: Me too… Me too, truly. We’re gonna go onto our next section and it is our last section of the interview which is ‘Somebody To Love’

• a lovely-bright string jingle plays as notable British television personality Gemma Collins says “Sometimes I do wish I had someone that was very financially stable that can look after me” over it -

(31:39)

Crystal: What or who are you currently enjoying in life? Whether it’s a new one or a love that’s always been around you, or if it’s a new singer you’re listening to or a new book that you’ve read, tell me… tell me all.

Coco: Oh well I first of all have to mention my husband and that, so (ah you know) for all the people out there that (you know) are either looking for someone or have someone, being able to to go through this with a partner of 25 years is really wonderful and that’s why I always encourage my young friends… that (erm you know) sometimes when you live in a big city it’s hard to find that special someone cos’ there’s just so many options, no one will ever be perfect.

(32:25)

But I found someone who (um) I’ve been able to grow with for 25 years (um) and it’s almost like having a bank account where you keep investing and you see these dividends (you know) and so afte- we just celebrated our 25 years together (um) on the 30th July-

Crystal: Oh that’s amazing.

Coco: So of course I’ve been reflecting on all of this and that’s probably why I-I brought it up is just- 25 years, where did it go? But it’s wonderful to have 25 years of memories that you’ve created together (and) and I find great comfort in that in this time.

(32:59)

Crystal: It’s beautiful, that’s so-so special.

Coco: I literally go to bed every night and I think ‘I can’t wait to wake up tomorrow morning so I can have my coffee’

Crystal: Eurgh.

Coco: So I’m really digging my coffee, I always loved coffee but I just… It’s those little things.

(33:17)

Crystal: It is.

Coco: I make a… two latte’s every morning for myself and… It’s called addiction I know - Crystal sniggers - it’s the caffeine i’m addicted to.

Crystal: I’m the same with sugar, I am the same with sugar.

Coco: But I’m-I-I’m really in-valuing that (er) those two coffees in the morning, I’m actually sad when I finished the last one but it gives me something to look forward to in the next morning.

Crystal: Absolutely.

(33:42)

Coco: And I also have been having (um) great joy in- I’ve been doing my little ‘Casa Coco’ online show and (um) what you said about earlier, what you didn’t expect from it? (um) Although I’m not doing a full show and there’s no way you can capture what you do in the theatre with lights, and sound, and that intimacy that you have with an audience, you can’t really capture that over a computer but you can (sort of) try to capture it. Sometimes I succeed I think because of the responses I get back from people and one of the responses is- “I didn’t know you sang” or “I didn’t know I was gonna feel emotional” or “that-that would really touch me that way” I found that so funny cos’ (you know) they only know me from shopping videos on YouTube, they don’t know the history I have of being a monologuist so, that’s been joyful for me to have my fans discover another (er) part of me.

(34:40)

Crystal: (I mean) I’m one of those fans (it was) it was a beautiful discovery (er) that night I saw you because I was someone that watched the YouTube videos, that’d seen you in these amazing movies and obviously Will & Grace as well… And to watch you live in your own show is watching you in your element, those things are great little parts of your talent but I feel (like) your solo show, and your solo show experience, is just the full package.

(35:11)

Coco: That’s where my passion was, when people come up to me like “I love you so much Coco” and I-I say “Where did you, how’d you, what show did you see?” and they’re like “Oh no I love your (um) Gran Theft Auto video”

Crystal Yeah.

Coco: And I’m happy but I’m always a little like; I really want you to see my show cos’ that is truly my passion.

(35:30)

Crystal: Is there anything that, over lockdown and over these past few months that has sprung a seed in your mind that after lockdown and once everything returns to its new normal, is there something that you would like to do that you didn’t have in you before?

Coco: (um well) I’m trying to see if I can publish something… so I’m working on that right now and it was something that I’ve been working on before the lockdown then it (kinda) fell by the wayside and I thought ‘well with this time lets revisit that’ (s-so) I’m working on that. (And um) I’m doing a little voiceover work for a new show called DeadEndia by a wonderful writer there in your country called Hamish Steele.

(36:11)

Crystal: Ah amazing.

Coco: (um so) That’s exciting, that’ll be on Netflix… (um) my illness, I keep waiting to get fired from it. - Crystal laughs - You know… but - Coco Chuckles -

Crystal: I think we all live with some element of imposter syndrome.

Coco: Well (it’s like) no one would’ve, I would’ve never imagined that Trump could be President, that we’d be on lockdo- I mean (it’s just like) nothing surprises me anymore.

Crystal: No! It doesn’t (it’s like) bring em’ on, bring em’ all on cos i’ll sit here and shrug my shoulders.

(36:36)

Coco: If I don’t hear from them for a while I’m like “Did I get fired!?” (You know)

• Coco & Crystal laugh together -

So I’m working on that and I certainly (um) I hope that I have at least one more show in me before I retire- there are things that I-I think my next show, I’m gonna write it from the perspective of what you said earlier, that Aunt that you never knew you had? I really wanna speak to the young people about (um) who- (um) about the world they wanna create and the power they have to create that world… with the black lives movement I’ve been so inspired by young people out on the streets,

(37:15)

it’s certainly something I learned from the AIDS activism of the 80s & 90s, and it’s certainly what I learned from creating Coco… It’s that you are 100% responsible, not 50%, not whatever-percentage, you are 100% percent responsible for creating the world that you wanna live in and each of us have that responsibility, and drag taught me that as well… That as I created Coco, and I’m sure you learnt this as Crystal sweetheart, you created a character and as you’re creating that character you realise ‘oh my god… this is how I’m supposed to create everything in my life, I-I am the creator, may not always go as I’d planned but I have this active role in creating my life in the same way that I created Crystal Lubrikunt.’

(38:07)

Crystal: Wow… You took me there!

• Coco laughs -

Crystal: You took me there, I- (just got) I got a free session.

• Coco continues to laugh -

Crystal: And I am thankful, thank you so much.

Coco: Well (um) I’m honoured to be here, and-and that I still have a voice and that young people still wanna hear from me, it-it makes me feel good.

(38:27)

Crystal: You are just such… an icon as a… sh-show woman, as… as an activist, and as just a staple in drag history, you are so loved, and so adored and I have friends upon friends a part of different generations that love & appreciate everything you do that we find ourselves quoting you, we find ourselves (you know) when you announce a date in London I get multiple messages from multiple types of people being like “are you going?”, “I-can I come with you?”, “can I- shall we get tickets together?” and it’s just the gift that keeps on giving with you Coco so if you do-

(39:08)

Coco: Oh my god that almost makes me wanna cry.

Crystal: It’s beautiful and i-you are the gift that keeps on giving as you said you are a giver, you are considerate, and I just think i-we are so lucky to have people like you on this planet and I really want you to realise that.

(39:22)

Coco: I am so happy to be a part of a drag sisterhood, and I know that drag queens- whatever their talent is, whatever they’re doing, (it is, you know) people used to go “Don’t call yourself a drag queen you’re so much more than that” and I would look at them and say “You need to open your mind about what drag is!” and it’s all valuable, it’s self expression, it’s creation, (it’s a-) it’s a celebration of owning 100% of who you are, I just its- (you know) All of it! And… gender, all-all of this exploration we’re on it’s just wonderful and I-I-it’s been an honour to’ve been a drag queen for 30 years.

(40:04)

Crystal: Now do you have anything to plug before we say our goodbyes today Coco?

Coco: Ah, just my (um) Casa Coco No.5 will be on- I think the date is August 26th will be my birthday celebration which is the 27th so (um) it’ll probably have a little bit of a birthday theme and I haven’t confirmed it yet but-I always usually have two guests and (I-) I’m pretty sure that one of them is gonna be that hateful queen Bianca Del Rio.

Crystal: Eurgh… I had the very big displeasure of having a Wagamamas which is an asian fusion restaurant dinner with her once and she was horrendous.

Coco: She’s-she’s just a miserable, miserable person… I love her.

- Crystal chuckles -

(40:47)

Crystal: Thank you so so much for taking the time

• soft, mysterious lounge music starts to play in the background -

and talking to me on this Tuesday afternoon/evening, it has been a pleasure to have you as my first guest on What Are You Like?! Coco Peru.

Coco: Thank you Crystal and just know, as part of my craziness, I will get off of here and think about all of the things I should’ve said or all- did I sound stupid!?

• Crystal & Coco laugh together -

I’m just letting you know that I will be filled with self doubt for the next few hours.

(41:20)

Crystal: Well do not because you have - Coco laughs - been everything and more and I am thrilled to have you.

Coco: You don’t have to say it, you don’t have to say it!

Crystal: I’m going to and it’s gonna be the fade out!

Coco: No! It’s my-It’s my craziness.

Crystal: Well I love your crazy and thank you so much for tuning in and thank you so much for listening listener but, thank you so much Coco Peru for being here.

Coco: Thank you Crystal.

Crystal: And that wraps up our very first episode of What Are You Like?! Thank you so much for joining me, I’ve been Crystal Lubrikunt, I’m extending my love & thanks to Miss Coco Peru for joining me as my very first guest ever. If you wanna hit me up its @CrystaLubrikunt on Instagram, that’s C-R-Y-S-T-A-L-U-B-R-I-K-U-N-T… I’ll see you in the next one but for now, stay camp.

- Episode ends -

View Details

WHAT ARE YOU LIKE?! 

With Crystal Lubrikunt 

Talentless drag performer & international potato Crystal Lubrikunt is joined by fabulous guests to get to know what they're REALLY like through the mediums of all things camp & joyous. From deciphering what words a peer has used to describe them to discovering their truest loves and revealing their biggest pet peeves, do tune in for a hootenanny of hilarity, love & - yet again- campery!