Management Blueprint: Recent Episodes
Steve Preda
Interviews with CEOs and Entrepreneurs about the frameworks they are using to build and scale their businesses.
Dr. Chris Fuzie, President of the National Leaderology Association and Founder of CMF Leadership Consulting, is on a mission to elevate leadership into a respected science—and to develop better leaders by grounding them in theory and behavior.
We dive into the emerging field of Leaderology and how Dr. Fuzie is working to verify and certify leadership practitioners as “Leaderologists.” He introduces the STICKUM Framework for building team cohesion through Sacrifice, Teamwork, Interaction, Communication, Keeping people focused, Unique norms and symbols, and Mission. Chris also explores the concept of Liminal Leadership—where leaders must seamlessly transition between leading and following—and explains how followership is as critical as leadership itself.
—Create Cohesion with Dr. Chris FuzieGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Dr. Chris Fuzie, president of the National Leaderology Association, a non-profit organization that establishes and promotes leaderology, the study of leadership as a respected discipline in science. He is also the owner of CMF Leadership Consulting. So without further ado, welcome to the show, Chris.
Thank you, Steve. I’m very happy to be here. Yeah, I’m looking forward to this.
Well, I have to tell you that we are 300 episodes in and you’re the first leaderologist that we ever had on this podcast. So it’s kind of a big day for us.
Oh, good.
So, what is leaderology? I’ve never heard this before, but it sure sounds interesting.
Well, okay, so you have psychology, you have psychologists. You have biology, you have biologists. You have all of these other ologies, which is the scientific study of or the study of whatever the discipline is. So leaderology is nothing more than the scientific study of leadership. So as a leaderologist, there’s different levels within leaderology. And
as a leaderologist, that means that you are formally educated in leadership theory and leadership practice.
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And the different levels, if you have one degree, two degrees, like I have three degrees, so three formal degrees in leadership. And so that’s what a leaderologist is. It’s just somebody who studies just like a biologist studies biology.So, is this a trademark designation or anyone can call themselves a leaderologist who are expert in leadership?
Yeah, that’s the thing is that we actually verify that the person is a leaderologist. And so through the National Leaderology Association, what we do is in order to join, you have to submit your transcripts to show that you’ve actually studied leadership, not management, but leadership. I know you know the difference between management and leadership, but that’s why we look at the type of classes that people have taken, what is their dissertation on that kind of stuff. So we look at all that kind of stuff before we designate somebody. That’s why they’re called verified leaderologists, because they have been vetted, they have been verified as a leaderologist before we will say, yes, this person knows what they’re talking about.
Okay. That makes sense. So in terms of definition, my favorite definition is that you manage things and you lead people. What is your definition? What is the official designated definition of a leaderologist and the leader?
I say the same thing. Manage things, you lead people. But a leaderologist understands the theories behind the concepts of leading people. As an example, let’s use cohesion as an example. There’s different ways of building cohesion.
I use the acronym STICKUM. Personal sacrifice, teamwork, getting people to interact. C is communication. K is keeping people focused on the mission. U is unique norms and symbols. And then the M is the mission focus.
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If you think about all those things, when you look at cohesion, then it’s important that you use all of those things. Plus cohesion, you have task cohesion and social cohesion, and task cohesion and social cohesion develop differently. You could have a lot of people who are doing their tasks, but don’t get along. That’s task cohesion. But then you could also have the situation where people all get along, but they don’t get anything done. That’s social cohesion. You want to balance those out. How do you balance those out? Well, you have to look at what’s happening with task cohesion and social cohesion. And then in the team dynamic, you look at what’s going on with teams because cohesion is a group structural dimension, but it’s also a group process. So if you don’t know that kind of stuff and you just try to build cohesion by doing a team building, well, you have to understand how that team building works. You have to understand the theory behind that team building. That’s an example of why a leaderologist, they understand those theories behind the acts, behind the behavior, I should say.
That’s great. So we talked about a framework before the show, but I would like to pivot and talk about the Cohesion Framework, because it’s very interesting, even more interesting than the other one. So what are the steps? What is the STICKUM process?
It's STICKUM. You want to stick them together.
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So, some kind of personal sacrifice, not a sacrifice that the company or the organization makes for the employees. You, yourself, make a personal sacrifice for people. And that’s where a lot of people see the servant leadership coming out because that’s where the servant leader is making a sacrifice for people. That’s the S, that’s the sacrifice. The T is teamwork. Sometimes you have to force people into a team. People will not necessarily go into a team. It’s kind of interesting that there’s a show on TV called The Challenge where they took these two rivals and put them together as a team and they had to work together in order to win that however many thousands of dollars. Well, those teams at the end of that show, not only did they understand the other person they had to work with, but they really understood and they came to like the other person. So sometimes you force people to work together. That’s where the social cohesion, maybe you don’t have the social cohesion and you’re creating the social cohesion along with the task cohesion. And then the I is interaction. Basically the same thing. You’re forcing interaction between different people and you’re making that interaction more personal. And it could be interaction between teams also, teams within a team. So let’s say an organization that has multiple functions, those teams may work in more of a silo kind of situation. Well, you don’t want to do that. You want to have them cross training. So you may have to force some of that interaction. The C is communication and communication is one of those that people think they know how to communicate, but we tend to overlook things like active listening. We tend to overlook body language.
We do a lot of email, management by email or leading by email, that doesn’t work. And so you have to actually communicate. Not just communicate, get the words across, but find the shared meaning within the words. So that’s one of the things that I focus on is that, what does it mean to be honest? Are you talking about being honest? Are you talking about being transparent? Can we totally be transparent? Sometimes the law says you cannot say certain things. Sometimes, like my experience in courtrooms, that the judge will not allow you to testify to because it might unduly prejudice the jury. And so the lawyers fight about who’s gonna talk about it. And then the judge makes a ruling in that, no, you can’t do that because, and so we get to the shared meaning and what is the definition of something? You asked the question at the beginning, the leaderologist. That’s that shared meaning kind of thing. So that’s where communication comes in.
Keeping people focused. The K is keeping people focused. That’s important because who are you serving? Who are you working for? I mean, maybe I have a really boring job. I have a standing post at a winery in the middle of the night in a warehouse. There’s nobody there. But if you weren’t there, what could happen? And keeping people focused and letting people understand what their purpose is and why they’re doing it. In law enforcement, we talk about the victims, especially working at a district attorney’s office. You talk about the victims and we’re prosecuting the criminals and how we keep focused about the victims and society and keeping people safe. The measure of the effectiveness, the sense of safety in a community. So that’s keeping people focused and reminding people of that every single day.
The U is unique norms and symbols. And that’s like, well, you have it on your book back there. I have it on my shirt here. We have these unique norms and symbols that we create, but every single one of these can be functional or dysfunctional. The unique norms and symbols is how you identify gang members also. They have certain tattoos. All of these work, whether it’s a benevolent or malevolent kind of organization. And so that unique norm and symbol, if you see somebody with a, let’s say like, somebody in the Navy and they’re wearing one of the crests for the seals. That’s a unique, normal symbol that identifies what they’re doing. And then the last one is missions.
It's important for people to feel like their mission is important. And so we want to create missions or jobs or tasks that people feel they could be part of.
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That’s where we talk about buy-in, getting the buy-in. So there’s a lot in STICKUM that helps get people cohesive. And then when you think about it as part of the team dynamics, it’s a structure that helps build structure in the team because that helps with the interpersonal communication, it helps with the tasks and it helps with the structure of the team. And then it’s also a group process because that process is always changing. You’re always evaluating from the time you socialize somebody in the organization, you’re always evaluating how they’re doing and that mission is going to be helpful in getting them to do it. That’s a whole 40-minute class at about two minutes.
So, yeah, no, I love it. The sacrifice. So, that’s great because often leaders, CEOs, business owners, don’t realize that they have to show a personal sacrifice to the teams to be trusted by the team for them to really feel that they care about them. I like the idea of forcing people. I mean, I’ve never heard this articulated this before, but it really is true that sometimes people, it’s their comfort zone to be in their silos. They don’t want teamwork. It’s an extra layer of responsibility. They have to pay attention to other people. They can’t just imagine that their world is perfect. It is uncomfortable. So you have to force people.
The same with interaction. Again, comfort zone thing. Interacting meaning you have to pay attention to other people, you have to split your attention. Communication, I love this distinction of the active listening. People often think about communication that it’s about sending messages, but it’s equally receiving messages and often sending the body language and the other non-verbal messages are more important than the actual verbal ones. And then keeping people focused. I’m wondering the difference between keeping people focused and the mission.
So, the overall mission could be like the overarching goal of the organization. And so keeping people focused on either a task, keeping people focused on something that’s important, something they need to do, that kind of thing. It’s different in that the overall mission is creating a mission that they can buy into is going to be important, but keeping people focused on why, that’s the “Why.” The mission is more of the what. Keeping people focused on why they’re doing what they’re doing. Is it just to make money so they can pay their bills and go surfing all day? Maybe. Is it because they really believe in what they’re doing? And most jobs, you have to have both. Most jobs, you have to have the mission and the different missions involved. I keep using the word mission, but it can be a job, task, company. Because if the company doesn’t survive, you’re out of a job. So it doesn’t help.
Yeah. I mean, the “Why” and the “What,” in my word, I call it, I call it the Company Why and the Summit Vision, I call it. The long-term, a big, hairy, audacious goal, as Jim Collins would say, that a big overarching North Star goal is kind of the what, but the what can also be the core business. What do we focus on right now? What are we good at? And so on. So that is fascinating. I’m going to reflect on this myself because this is super valuable. So talking about the “Why,” what is your personal “Why” that you manifest in your practice?
My personal “Why” is I had some really bad leaders in my life, not all throughout my life, but I’ve had some really bad ones. It was like, there’s gotta be something to make it better. And it makes me better too. I was a cop until age 40. And I looked around and I saw a bunch of people that were starting to, some of my friends are starting to get hurt. At age 40, do you want to still be chasing people, jumping fences and running through backyards? And I said, no, I should probably come up with a backup plan. And so I went back to school, I started looking at this leadership stuff. And I realized that a lot of this org leadership stuff is working with what I was seeing every single day. And then I became a supervisor and seeing how people were interacting, fit right in with what I was learning in the theories and I could start applying those theories.
So then for the next almost 10 years, I was using the police department as like a little Petri dish, testing out some of these theories or writing about these theories that were I was actually seeing happen. I had some really, really good supervisors and really good leaders and then I had some really bad leaders and bad supervisors and it’s like what’s the difference? What is the difference? How come some turn out good, some turn out bad? What is it? Well, I’ve come to find out a lot of it is the theory. Not understanding people, not understanding how things are working, and that’s a big factor in all of this. So my personal “Why” is to get better and be better.
Okay, well, that sounds simple. It’s probably not easy all the time, but definitely interesting. Now, I’m really curious about a couple of things I wanted to talk to you. I mean, you said that you were a cop for a couple of decades and you talked about leadership and how you discovered some of the systems behind leadership as a cop. What is unique about being a first responder, whether it’s a cop or an emergency technician or a firefighter? What is unique in terms of leadership about being a first responder?
So what's really interesting is that you're not just leading and you're not just following. You're actually doing both at the same time.
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And I didn’t realize this till about six years ago. I mean, after I’ve been out of law enforcement for 10 years and still studying this leadership, followership stuff, and I realized that even in the academy, we’re trained to lead in that you’re trained how to handle a specific type of call, you’re either the primary officer or you’re the backup. The primary officer is the lead. The backup is the follower. But if things change and the backup sees something that they need to take action on, they could jump in the lead. Or you as the lead, as the primary officer, let’s say you get busy, you’re arresting somebody or you’re taking somebody down or you have something. Now, you’re out of, you still have to control that person. So now the backup becomes the leader. And so in law enforcement, that happens all the time. I should say in emergency services, we get to a scene of a crime and we have somebody who’s hurt or injured. As soon as the firemen and the ambulance get there, they’re taking the lead on dealing with that person. I’ll get my information later on until they get them to the hospital and they deal with them. If there’s a safety concern, the firemen and the ambulance are going to stay back until we’ve dealt with the safety concern. And so everybody’s leading and following in their own right. And then, emergency services, you have a structure for that emergency service. But it’s just like in the military, the mission is what’s important. Not so much whether you’re leading or following, it’s how do we accomplish this mission or how do we accomplish this job that we need to do? And like I said, I didn’t realize this till about six years ago while I was focusing on followership stuff. And I realized that, that’s what I was doing for almost 30 years, leading and following.
So let me jump on this one because that’s also a very interesting concept that you talk about, the followership. Before I talked to you, I never heard about leaderology and let alone followership, that it was even a thing. So what is followership? Is this a skill?
Well, it’s a real thing. We’re in baseball season now. So let’s talk about baseball. Do you have a favorite team? Do you follow that team? Do you go a favorite team? Do you go to the stands? When you go to a baseball game in a stadium, there’s nine players on the field, another dozen or so in the dugout. There’s a couple down in the dugout, a couple dozen maybe, but there’s nine players on the field. But you have 40 or 60,000 fans sitting there all rooting for their team. That’s followership. Also, just imagine if we could get those 40,000 people or 60,000 people to do something just because somebody hits a home run, we all scream and yell. And if you think about it, if you go to the games and you hear like the organ player or the somebody, they do this thing where get everybody to clap or do the wave or whatever it is.
They do all these things to get the audience to keep the audience engaged and responding. And that's part of the game.
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So followership is driven by the leader? So, it’s not an active behavior from the followers. It’s something that the leader creates.
No, I think it’s both. I think it’s from the leader and the follower. A lot of people think of followership as being the opposite of leadership. That’s absolutely not. I do this thing in my classes where I talk about I’ll do a test. I could do it with you right now if you want. Okay, so I’m going to say a word. You tell me the opposite. You ready?
Okay.
Okay. Up.
Down.
In.
Out.
Fast.
Slow.
Leader.
Follower.
Right. Because that’s the mental schema we have. But when you think about follower, the follower is actually going the same direction as the leader. They’re not going in opposite direction. The follower is trying to achieve the same goal as the leader. They’re not trying to achieve a different goal and antithetical towards the ideals of the leader. We try to find people within our organization who have the same ideals. The leader and the follower are actually like two sides of the same coin, whereas you can’t spend just one side of the coin. You can only spend the whole coin. And so followership is, it’s both leading. And that’s where this last book I wrote, it’s called Liminal Leadership, because some people have to lead and follow at the same time. And if you’re a middle manager, if you’re president or supervisor, anywhere in that structure, you’re leading and following.
So I’m just trying to relate to this. So let’s say a company have a CEO, the visionary person, and then it has a COO, the second in command, who maybe is more focused on execution. Then would the visionary person be the leader and the COO, the follower?
Until it becomes an operational issue, then the COO should probably, there’s things that you know have happened, be the first one to do something. The CEO might trump him in authority, but may not have the expertise that the COO has.
But maybe they have a vision and the CEO can realize the vision. Would it not make the CEO a follower or practicing followership in terms of the visionary leader?
Correct. They are practicing followership, but they’re also leading all the other people that in that organization. And so I work for a district attorney’s office and I work directly for the elected district attorney. And the elected district attorney, he’s elected. So who does he follow? He follows the will of the people. The people can unelect them, they can kick him out, they can get rid of him, but he follows the will of the people. Well, when he tells me this is what we’re going to do, I have to say, okay, boss, and then I turn around and lead 164 other people in the district attorney’s office to get things done. But I have to follow and lead at the same time. And that’s where followership is sometimes even stronger than leadership because you have, like in my organization, I have 164 people that if they all said, ah, this is not a good idea, and then I turn to the boss, I go, hey boss, I’ve got all these people telling me this, and he may rethink it. And he does rethink it. It’s kind of great to work for somebody like that, who actually pays attention to what’s going on. So that followership does have a strong presence in every organization. I don’t think we’ve tapped into how to use it right, though.
That’s interesting. Very interesting topic. Probably we can’t do justice to it in 30 minutes, but there are different ideas that come to my mind. One is that, a good follower sometimes is harder to find than a leader.
Yeah.
Anyone can have ideas, but someone who can actually focus their attention to executing a set of ideas, it’s a very valuable person. I’m also thinking about the right kind of followership and the wrong kind of followership, because sometimes you have dogmatic followers or people who are uncritically following someone and bad things on their behalf. So there are multiple aspects to this. Before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you about Liminal Leadership. And I see the book behind you, the Liminal Space.
Yeah. Right back here.
So what does this mean? Liminal Space and Liminal Leadership.
Yeah. The word liminal means in a transitionary state. So it comes from anthropology where things would change like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. When it’s in the chrysalis and it’s hanging there, then it’s in a liminal state. So a person, I took that concept and applied it to leadership. A person that is leading and following at the same time, they have to transition from leading and following. And so if we think about the transition of leading and following, if you’re doing it at the same time, then it doesn’t really matter if you’re the leader or the follower at the time that you’re doing whatever it is you have to do. It’s the matter of getting that task or that behavior accomplished. So as an example, in like in my position at the DA’s office, the boss tells me something, I have to turn around and get other people to do it. Well, I’m in a liminal space when I’m in that position of doing both things. I’m not leading, I’m not following, I just have to do it.
So as an example, if you’re told to be honest, okay, does it matter if you’re honest as a leader or honest as a follower or as long as you’re honest? So that’s the thing.
This liminal space concept is people who have to lead and follow at the same time.
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It becomes less about the position and more about the appropriate behavior. And that’s why the subtitle is Reshaping Leadership and Followership, because we need to stop thinking about leadership as a hierarchical kind of concept. And we need to start thinking, thinking about it more as a behavior-based concept. And all of my books are behavior-based. And so when we talk about the behavior of people, how do you get the appropriate behavior from somebody, whether they’re leading or following? And that’s where the liminal space comes in, is that we focus more on the behavior rather than the role that they’re in.Yeah, that’s fascinating. Well, definitely very deep discussion around the leadership.
Sorry.
No, that’s great. I mean, that’s this concept of the STICKUM, the cohesion, how to create cohesion. I’ve basically worked with teams and I’m working on creating that cohesion, but I didn’t have the STICKUM formula. And now I’m going to STICKUM together using the formula. I love it. It’s great. It’s very granular and one can work on the individual elements, the sacrifice, the teamwork, the interaction, communication, working on active listening, body language, norms and symbols, the big topic in itself, the mission, the “What,” the “Why.” This is very, very valuable. So if people would like to learn more about your books, your teachings, and maybe want to enroll themselves in the leadership, the Leaderology Institute, they want to become leaderologist themselves, or get a certification because they have done the studies, where should they go and where can they reach you?
My website is www.cmfleadership.com and there’s a contact message on there. I’m also on linkedin and facebook and what is it called now? X? Yeah, so I’m on all of those. And you just look for Chris Fuzie. Not too many people with the name of Fuzie, so you’ll find it pretty easy. For the books, they’re all on Amazon. So amazon.com. Again, just do a search for Chris Fuzie books and they’ll all pop up. There’s three behavior-based books. And then the others that are listed on there are workbooks for the classes that we do. And then for the leaderology, if you want to check out more about national leaderology association, go to www.nlainfo.org. It has a page on there to join. It has everything about what we do, why we do what we do. We tend to say it’s chess, not checkers. We’re playing chess, we’re playing the big game. And so it’s important that we talk about this from a scientific level, applying the scientific theories to what we do.
That is best. That really helps leaders become more intentional, and they can organically build their skills. They don’t have to just rely on role models and flying by the seat of their pants and figuring out as they go along, they can get into some very tangible concepts. So, Dr. Chris Fuzie, President of the National Leaderology Association, NLA, and the owner of the CMF Leadership Consulting Company. It was great having you on the show. You shared some really valuable stuff. I made some notes and I’m going to use them and check your books out. So if you enjoyed this show, then make sure that you subscribe, give us a review, follow us on YouTube, and stay tuned because every week, we bring either a successful entrepreneur or a subject matter expert like Dr. Fuzie, who will help you become a better leader and even a better follower. Thanks for coming on the show and thanks for listening.
Important Links* Dr. Chris’s LinkedIn * Dr. Chris’s website * National Leaderology Association
https://youtu.be/wrIFxgnkJ1ANathan Miller, Founder and CEO of Miller Ink, is on a mission to help organizations communicate clearly and strategically—especially in moments of high stakes and crisis.
We explore Nathan’s journey from diplomacy and speechwriting at the UN to launching one of California’s top crisis communication firms. He shares the Miller Ink Communications Framework, which anchors every campaign with a clear objective, a targeted audience, and a compelling message. Nathan breaks down how to craft memorable messaging using the 3 Cs (Clear, Concise, Compelling) and the 3 S’s (Stories, Statistics, Soundbites). He also reveals how to build a reputation-driven business, navigate hiring decisions, and future-proof your communications in a rapidly changing media landscape.
—Communicate in Soundbites with Nathan MillerGood day, dear listeners. It’s Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint and my guest today is Nathan Miller, founder and CEO of Miller Ink. and he’s also a seasoned communication strategist with deep experience in business, government, diplomacy, crisis management and issue advocacy. Nathan, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Steve. It’s great to be here.
Well, it’s good to have you. And I’ve got some questions I’m really curious about that I want to ask you. And starting with my favorite one, what is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your business?
My personal “Why” really is a couple of things. One, our business makes a huge impact for a lot of people and to feel that impact every day is tremendous and it gives me a lot of satisfaction and pride. The people who work for Miller Ink., the people who work here and launched their careers through this company, our clients, every day you get to be in rooms with people who are solving problems, addressing challenges, navigating different challenges, and helping them get to a better place is incredibly gratifying. You want to be somebody who’s of service in that way. We do a lot of advocacy and mission-driven work as well as an agency.
I’ve done a lot of work on behalf of the Jewish community and the State of Israel, which has also been very meaningful. And for me, the most important personal “Why” is I have three kids and so much of what I do is really for them. And that is really one of my big North Stars in life.
Yeah, well, lots of meaningful stuff in your life. And you left the UN Security Council, where you were a writer, to become a PR entrepreneur. So tell me about this journey.
The journey was crazy. My career began, I got a master’s in public policy here at UCLA. I went to Europe for a little bit. I worked in Brussels with the EU institutions there at a think tank. And then I came back and I worked at a PR firm in LA for a couple of years early in my career. I got a job as the chief speechwriter for Israel’s mission to the UN. And it was a crazy time to be doing that job. I was really young, and it was the outbreak of the Arab Spring. A lot of different things that were happening in the Middle East and in the world. So, fascinating moment. And I did that job for three years. And at that point, my now wife and I were dating, and she was in LA and I was in New York, and we had to figure out a place to be. So I said, you know what, I’m gonna come back. And I think I have a problem with authority is what I learned working in big institutions in different ways.
And I like to be able to set the pace of what I do. And so I say, every entrepreneur has a different cross that they’re trying to not bear. And for me, it was really having control of my own destiny, and that mattered a lot to me. So I was a young guy. I saw communications changing rapidly, really rapidly. When I started at the UN, then the ambassador, Susan Rice, they asked her if she was on Twitter and she said, I don’t do diplomacy by haiku. And that was like a funny thing. But then within a year she was on Twitter and it was a big deal. And so, my first job in PR, I remember, I went into a meeting with a professional sports team and I set up their first Facebook page. Facebook came out my freshman year of college or sophomore year, maybe, but it was something that I sort of, when I was very young was very new and I saw how this was going to completely change the ecosystem of how you do communication.
And I thought there would be an opportunity for us in starting the firm. And I think I was right. I mean, I think that was an insight that was correct. And so, we’ve been able to build a firm that I think is on the leading edge of a lot of the changes in our space. And we’ve grown over time today. We could talk about that whole journey, but fast forward to now, we’re about 20 people. on the West Coast, on the East Coast, 65 plus clients across a number of different industries. And we’re one of the market leaders in a couple of different important verticals.
So that’s impressive. So one of the things that led you to achieve that success is you developed your own communication framework. You just spoke about how communication was changing rapidly. So tell me a little bit about this Miller Ink Communication Framework. What does it look like?
Absolutely. Well, I’m really an analog guy in a digital world. I really believe in the principles of communication. When you go back to Aristotle, there’s really nobody who understood the framework for persuasion. There’s a lot of wisdom that’s been passed down through the ages and that people have. I think too much of the people now who are purely digital, they think in a very tactical way, but they’re not getting back to the big strategic framework of what are we trying to achieve and how does communications do that.
Communications is a means to an end. It's not an end in itself. Just doing good PR because it makes you feel better or whatever is not a goal.
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It always is what are we trying to achieve? Having the experience that I had in diplomacy and in politics, I felt like there’s a lot of skills that I would sort of a shorthand, but they’re analog skills, like really like core building block skills that I think are missing today that we train everybody on our team and those skills, but we also bring a sense of understanding of how the ecosystem has changed and leveraging all the opportunities in a place where the mediated model of communication is no longer as relevant, where everybody is a publisher, where digital is so important, et cetera. We can talk about that. So, but our framework that I teach everybody, and I think this is important for any entrepreneur starting out, Miller Ink 101, every person who comes in and all of our clients, we really talk about this framework.
So, every good strategic communications program has a clear objective, a clearly defined objective that’s measurable, specific. The objective is not, we want to get better PR. The objective is what do we want the PR to achieve? Do we want more clients? Do we want more sales? Do we want to raise more money? We want our issue to be seen by a certain segment of the population. So the first thing is that clearly defined objective. A targeted audience, I have yet to have a client that has unlimited budget to reach the whole world. You always have to think about, and people will say, well, everybody matters, but that’s not the truth.
The art of this business is understanding who really matters.
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And being able to clearly understand your target audience, who is it, define it, and then be able to inhabit the mind of that audience and understand how are they going to receive the information that you’re sharing. It’s not what you say, it’s what they hear. How are they gonna hear what you’re saying to them? And we do a lot of work around trying to understand that our audience, there’s perceptions, there are misperceptions, there are likes, their dislikes, and then how do they relate to whatever it is that we’re trying to talk to them about.How do you do that, by the way?
So, there’s many different ways. Sometimes you do formal research where you’ll do quantitative research and survey or you’ll do focus groups. We do a lot of focus groups. A lot of it is using your imagination. We train our team to before they write something, they have to think about who they’re writing it for. How are they going to internalize the information that they’re writing? And I think this is where a lot of people have lost that ability in some sense. It’s really important. Even when you have research, you have to understand how to apply it. So a lot of it lives in your mind. And this is where AI and things like this are never going to really be as strong in my view. It’s in really learning, it’s a combination of formal research and then having the kind of the sense of things from doing this for a long time and from really like thinking about who is the audience. And then the final thing is a message. And the message aligns your audience in the direction of your objective.
It drives your audience towards whatever your goal is. If your goal is to sell more chocolate, your message gets your customers to buy more chocolate. If your goal is to help people think differently, a certain segment of the population to think differently about an issue, it’s the message that’s driving a certain segment of the population to think differently about an issue. And so how do you make that message really do that? So we have a framework. We call it the three Cs and the three Ss, and there’s different frameworks, but I developed this working with clients, I have had different positions, training in different educational settings, training CEOs, startup founders, and teaching a bit at some different schools. So I wanted to try to boil down the way I think about messaging into something that’s simple and memorable.
So the three Cs, a great message is clear, it’s not full of jargon, the target audience can understand what you’re talking about, they know what you’re saying. It’s concise, especially now in a moment of decreasing attention spans, you need something that’s going to really be able to capture their attention quickly and they’ll be able to understand it. And it’s compelling. The message moves them to action in some way. And the corollary to the three C’s, how do you make a message compelling, are the three S’s. And there’s different tools that we do, but we like to think about stories, statistics, and soundbites. So stories, we’re hardwired as humans since we’ve been cavemen painting on caves and we connect to other human beings and we connect to other human stories.
And there’s something very important about being able to help people not just think about something in the abstract, but see the other, the human element, in it in a specific way. Statistics. Statistics can be used really in an effective way to move our logical sense, but they can also be used ineffectively and generically. So we have a lot of work around how do you use a statistic to your advantage when it comes to messaging. And then soundbites. Boiling down our core ideas into memorable little quips that people will hear. When you read a newspaper article, where you hear a speech, when you watch somebody on TV, at most you’re going to remember one or two things they said. And usually it’s from those little sound bites. So there’s an art to developing soundbites. And we also teach that and we think about that when we’re developing a message for a client. I always tell people the average press release quote is extremely boring and extremely unmemorable and it’s not a soundbite. And many people who come here, especially if they come from other agencies, the first quote they write for a press release, and it’ll say, we’re excited to do X, Y, or Z. They learn very quickly that that’s not our method here.
We're always thinking about how do you make that quote really stand out, live off the page, have a reporter really want to pick it up, or somebody who is going to hear it will remember it and it’ll stand out in the article.
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So how do you do that? Is there a process for this?
There’s a process. There are books. One of the first books when I became a speechwriter at the UN, I really wanted to study it like a science. So I had a book of speeches that sat by my bed every night for three years, and I would read two or three famous speeches every night. William Sapphire wrote a book called Lend Me Your Ears, which is a great book, which has a lot of, like, thousands of speeches, and I’d look at others, and I’d really break it down. So a great speech in some ways is a great soundbite. It feels like you’ve heard it before. It becomes really, like, innate, or it really shocks you when it makes you think differently. There’s a lot of things you can do within the language that makes a soundbite strong. So people like to think, you call them a trisome or a triple. This, this, and this, people’s brains are sort of wired to want to hear a triple.
So that’s one thing. Rhyme is another thing. Creating puns that are funny. Our food is fresh, our customers are spoiled. Paradoxes. Things that are like, again, and sometimes it’s too cheesy or whatever, but you want to think about how do you make something stand out and really be different? And then I also want to think about how do you boil down your core idea into something that’s really at its essence. You think about some great core lines like the New York Times is forever. Their line has been all the news that’s fit to print, which I think captures exactly who the New York Times is and what the brand that they’re trying to sell. There’s a lot of thought that goes into that. And part of our job is to develop those ideas and then connect to the client and build a messaging framework, a messaging architecture that we can use for everything we do. But that takes a lot of work at the front end.
Yeah, they say that it’s the headline that you will spend 50% of your time on, and 50% on the actual message.
100%. When I’m writing an op-ed, I spend most of my time writing that first paragraph. The rest of it is because you need something that’s going to really stand out and be different and it’s hard to do that. Sometimes even something stands out, it’s not quite right for other reasons. There’s a process by which you think about that.
Yeah, I love it. The message has to be clear, concise, compelling, and then you make it compelling with stories, statistics, and soundbites.
Yes.
With the right mix and tailored to the audience.
Yes.
I love it. So you’ve been running this business for what? For 10 years? 12 years?
For 12 and a half years.
12 and a half years.
Yeah.
So, what was the hardest decision you’ve ever had to make during that time?
So I think the hardest decision was starting the business because it was a crazy idea and I had no business doing it at that point in that stage of my career. For me, the hardest decisions are always around hiring. Over the years, I’ve gotten better at it. But in an agency business, our people are our superpower. And we’re only as strong as the team that we bring onto the field every day. For me, the toughest calls are, should we make this investment in this person or not? Or is this the right person for the role? Is this what we need? And when you hire the right person, it’s like rocket fuel. It really helps the business tremendously. We’re a small enough agency, we’re 20, 25 people. And so every person on the team really matters.
And I like this size of a business because of that. I can really have a lot of visibility into and control over what we’re doing and how we’re doing things. So, we made some really key strategic hires over the years and we made some really bad hires. And I reaped the benefits and paid the price respectively. And so for us, I’ve built a much more robust system for hiring now. It’s a longer process. It’s less based on my gut and more based on data and really asking ourselves the hard questions before we pull the trigger. And I have a lot of other people involved. When you’re just making a decision based on I think this person is going to work out, I think you have a lower batting average than when you have a better process.
Now, when you sell PR services, is it about the personality of the individual and the knowledge or is it something else? What makes a PR person attractive to a customer?
It’s a great question. We work in a number of different verticals. I would say it really varies by vertical. So we’re probably the leading crisis communications company in California right now, just by volume and reputation. And a lot of that is built on the brand reputation and in the cases we’ve worked on and the victories we’ve had, people know us. And just for me, years of working with many people in the field, and it’s a relatively specialized field, so it’s heavily relationship dependent. We get some leads that just come in from the internet because of our brand identity and things like that. But a lot of it is, I’d say most of it is warmly relationships based on experiences with me or others who have relationship with us as an agency. We also do a lot of work connected to the Jewish community. And I would say it’s similar. It’s a brand name and reputation. Other verticals are different.
We have a public affairs real estate group. That is, I think, it’s a broader market and it’s more of a national market and people are always looking for, so there’s a lot more shopping around and things like that and people are less specific and there’s more players on the field in some ways. What they’re looking for at the end of the day, I think, is somebody who’s going to be able to solve their problem, who they trust will do that. And I’ve learned that the short-term sale in my business is not always the best approach. I’d much rather find someone who’s the right fit for us to have a long-term relationship. It’s very disruptive to bring on a short-term client who doesn’t work either because they have unrealistic expectations about what’s possible for them because they don’t have sufficient budget to really have somebody on for the long term. So, it’s a joint interview process in some ways.
And I’m turning away a reasonable amount of the business that comes in because I’m trying to calculate, is this going to be a long-term fit? Are we going to be able to deliver for this person? The worst thing is to have a client come in and have it not work out for them and for you. It’s a very specific business that we have, and I think a mistake a lot of PR folks make is sort of taking anything that comes in the door and not thinking about, are we the best agency to actually deliver on this piece of business? Can we actually solve their problem and can we achieve what they want us to achieve?
So you mentioned crisis communication. Is this the point when you can bring in a new client and they have a crisis and they want safe hands or someone who they get the inkling that they will be able to resolve it? And then the follow-up question is, how do you then keep these clients? So when the crisis is passed and hopefully you help them navigate it, how do you add, keep adding value so that you keep them for long haul?
So many crisis clients are just crisis clients. They come in for a couple of months and they go, and that’s a part of the business model. And our pricing and everything else accounts for that. Some crisis clients become long-term clients and that’s happened quite often. And also crisis clients become great referral sources for other folks. I randomly was on an event in Colorado with someone who was a crisis client of ours. And our crisis clients are always confidential basically. I don’t talk about that work with others. This person was there and I was with a big group of business leaders. There’s probably 50 of us there and we’re at this bar and it’s like 8:30 at night. And this person, we did tremendous work on his case and he was very, very happy.
And he said, this guy saved my life and I’m buying a shot for everybody at the bar because I did it in his honor. And he bought a bottle of something and it’s just like a way to illustrate kind of what happens when you’re in my business and I take it really seriously, we will give our all to deliver for our clients and people know that and we’ve built that reputation and that goes a long way and you have a mutual loyalty and respect. And so then, these are people who are prominent people, their friend gets in a similar situation or something else happens. They say, you know what, Miller Ink would be great. And that’s a big part of our business is just doing a good job and being honest with people. I think reputations are about the idea of compounding for me is really important. The seeds I planted 10 years ago are still bearing fruit today, both positive and negative. So if you blow out with somebody or you’re mean to somebody, you do wrong by somebody, that’s going to live with you forever. And similarly, if you do a good job and you’re fair to them and you’re not really greedy,
I think it's really important to have that view. And that's what we've tried to do as a business. I think it's always the better strategy.
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Yeah. Especially in the professional service, reputations are paramount. I agree with you. So as an entrepreneur, what is it that you would advise other entrepreneurs to ask themselves, what is the question? What is the critical question they should be asking themselves all the time?
First of all, I think you have to be very self-critical. I think it’s very important to have people around you who will be your mirror, whether it’s in the business or outside the business, and say, you could have done this or that better. My wife is a great partner for me in that sense. She also has a sister agency, but she’s a very good mirror and sounding board. The fundamental question at the end of the day, and people sometimes, I think, especially the last five years, as I deal with business leaders, it seems kind of obvious, but who is going to pay you money for this good or service, and why are they going to do it, and how are they going to do it over the long term? So many people get caught up in everything else, but that’s the fundamental question. And the same thing is true for PR. How is this advancing you towards a goal, whatever that goal might be? And to have that strategic framework, it seems like really complicated, but it’s pretty simple. And I think that too often people get caught up. We’re emotional creatures. We’re sort of focused on whatever the thing is in front of us. We have a hard time sometimes zooming out and saying, are we moving in the right direction in this way? Tell us to it.
Okay, so final question. You mentioned that you love the size of the firm that you’re running. Do you wanna keep it that size or you still wanna grow it?
We have some exciting plans for growth right now. I don’t wanna be a mega firm. We have some folks on the East Coast and we’re gonna be building out some of those presence. We have plans to do that soon and we’re kind of actively building that. There are some other businesses that we’re looking at right now that are ancillary that I think will support our core businesses, either both on the crisis side and otherwise, where I think related to AI and sort of where the field is going. I think that the one thing about communications is what works today is not going to work tomorrow and you have to be thinking about where it’s going. And so we’re trying to anticipate that. And so I’m making different strategic investments. I continue to do that over the years in our firm’s capabilities, because I think just as what I said about compounding, it’s really true now. You always have to be putting in the work today for tomorrow. And that’s when you really reap the benefits. You’re going to be much better off.
Okay, that makes sense. All right, Nathan, so we’re coming to the end of the recording. If people would like to learn more about your firm Miller Ink and personally want to connect with you, where should they go? What should they do?
Yeah, miller-ink.com. That’s our website. And you can feel free, you can contact us through the site and give us a call and we’ll be happy to be in touch.
All right. So thank you for coming and sharing your wisdom and insights on communication, and crisis communication, and PR in general. And those of you listening, if you enjoyed this conversation, if you picked up some good ideas how to communicate your situation, your stories, make it clear, concise, compelling with stories, statistics, soundbites. Then stay tuned because every week I bring an exciting CEO to the show to share their wisdom with you. So thank you for listening and coming, and thank you for sharing your wisdom, Nathan.
Thanks so much. Thanks for having me.
Important Links:* Nathan’s LinkedIn * Nathan’s website
https://youtu.be/7kbdcPkeCuYAlanna Levenson, Business Coach and Workshop Facilitator, is on a mission to help driven business owners reach their highest potential through self-awareness and no-excuses action.
We explore Alanna’s coaching journey and her Executive Improvement MAP, a framework that guides entrepreneurs to elevate their mindset and mission, align strategy with values, and build legacy-driven, profit-focused teams. She outlines how leaders can reclaim their focus, lead with intention, and foster quiet influence by becoming profoundly self-aware. Alanna also shares the three critical questions business owners should ask daily to stay on a growth path.
—Build Your Team’s Self-Awareness with Alanna LevensonGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Alanna Levenson, business coach and workshop facilitator who helps driven business owners reach their highest potential and take no excuses action. Alanna, welcome to the show.
It’s good to be here.
Well, I’m super curious about how you do that with these business owners, even though they are driven, which is a good given. But let’s start with my favorite question. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your practice?
Yeah. So, the question of our “Why.” I mean, I asked that of my clients too. It’s an important one, because if we don’t know what it is, then in essence, we’re directionless and we’re disconnected. So when I think about that, I reflect back at when I was very young and I was introverted and very shy and didn’t really feel like I had much of a voice. I was also very insecure. And there were things that I did throughout my life, like I studied dancing, which was more of a physical expression than a verbal one. But I did it in a very committed way for, I mean, I could say from when I was four until I was 18, but I even did it in college.
So really my “Why” is about connecting with yourself, finding confidence, knowing your voice, and what does your voice wanna say?
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And that will evolve throughout your lifetime because what my voice has wanted to express or is currently expressing is very different than even who I was just a few years ago. So, my “Why” is really reflecting and connecting with who you are, understanding that we are evolving living beings. And we’re having this incredible experience and that we’re not the only ones on the planet. So, since we’re constantly bumping up against other people in life and in work, how can we be the best that we can be while also supporting others and being the best that they can be too?Yeah, okay. That’s, that’s pretty powerful. Be the best we can be and make other people the best that they can be as well. I love it. So how do you do this? How do you help your clients kind of map out a roadmap to get there? So what does it take to be the best you can be as a business owner as you are traversing this terrain and trying to be in the business and be a better human?
Well, I’ve been coaching for 20 years, and even my journey with coaching has evolved over time. My clientele has evolved. The “Why’s” have evolved within the clientele as well. And where I am now, it’s about giving people, it’s not so much a framework as it is guardrails. And then there’s a very intuitive, organic, custom process within that, that I work with people on. But if we’re talking about a roadmap or the word MAP, as an acronym, I am using that as a framework. So what do I mean by that? So the M, if you think of that in terms of your mindset and your mission, if I was to sum that up, it’s about reconnecting to your purpose, your “Why.” It’s reclaiming your focus.
So what I’ve noticed about people is they tend to get very distracted and it’s easy and it’s becoming quote unquote easier to get distracted these days, especially because of so many things happening in the world and the world changing so fast. And we’re just all trying to navigate through it and keep up with it.
Reclaiming your focus for yourself can be really powerful and important.
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And that also what’s underneath all that is your inner excellence. What makes you excellent? And I’m not talking about perfectionism because I know that’s a big problem for people too and how that shows up. But really what is your inner excellence of who you are, what you’re doing and why you’re doing it? So getting a clear understanding of what your mindset is, where it is and how you can transform it to serve yourself and others and the mission that goes with that. That’s what I mean by the M piece. So I don’t know if you have any questions or comments about that before I go on to the A.Yeah, it is a little bit complex, but I like the idea of reclaiming your focus. That’s a really powerful way to express that. We have to resist the distraction and we have to just not allow us to be diverted to maybe other people’s goals, and we have to own our own, and we have to keep our attention on it. I think it’s super important. And it’s very easy to get distracted with the news and with disturbing stuff. But guess what? We are run out of 300 million. How much can we influence the news? And we have a profession where we are making a difference. Isn’t that a better way to apply ourselves? But that goes into a philosophical discussion that we probably don’t even have time. So love it. Mission is number one. So what’s the A in the MAP acronym?
Well, really quick, I want to touch on something you said, because I think it’s really important. Throughout my life, I realized that there were times when I was distracted from my own “Why,” and I was more about, I was avoiding it by supporting somebody else’s. I did get fulfillment in that, but I realized looking back that there was also an element of avoidance and it wasn’t until I gave myself permission to redirect my focus back to me and realize how much more impact I can have. So I think that’s a really important piece that you, I don’t even know if you realize you brought up, but I wanted to just highlight that too. The A has to do with approach and alignment. So what do I mean by that?
Okay. Back to focus. This is now is about focused execution. What are the actions that you’re taking? It has to do with leadership structure, also seeing yourself as a leader and where do you fit within that structure? Let alone, are you a leader really within a hierarchical organization where you’ve got people reporting to you or multiple layers reporting to you? And then a values driven strategy. So each of those words are really important. I’m a very intentional purpose. Verbiage and words to me hold power. And when I say values driven, I mean, what are your personal values? What are your professional values? How does that fit within the collective of the values that you’re working besides with, or that you’re serving within the organization? It there’s so many layers to it. And I don’t think people really take the time out to think about this too much.
And then what’s the strategy that you’re using to making sure that those values are being lived out and that you’re what I call honoring them. Because if you’re not honoring them with purpose and intention, then you’ve lost focus. All of it works together. That’s what I mean by approach and alignment.
It's aligning with yourself, it's aligning with others, it's aligning to the objectives and the values of the larger organization at hand, or maybe it's just even the team that you're on and how you're approaching that.
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So I guess it starts with picking an organization where you can align with the values of. So knowing your personal values, work for an organization or support an organization that you can be aligned with, and then the next step is staying true to that, I guess.
Yeah. And that’s within that journey, all the things that you just mentioned is a journey really. And what I love about the way that I get to work with people is using my intuition and all the amazing tools that I’ve learned over the years and personal experience too. I’m pretty good about when I talk to a leader or get to work with say a small business or an organization, I can start to quickly see where the gaps are, what’s missing, where’s there a disconnect. For example, I was recently coaching a sales leader and something that he was trying to work through where it was the sales weren’t where they needed to be, but they were blaming it on his team in that they were doing product demos because it’s a tech company, which I also work a lot in that space.
And the more I dug deeper with him, I realized this has less to do with the fact that there’s a gap in their own sales process in when they start to lose sales and more about where are the leads coming from and how is your marketing feeding into the way that the sales process works. And within 15 minutes, I helped him see, which he unfortunately didn’t have control over, I asked him questions about marketing and leads coming in. And I said, how’s that working? And he’s like, it’s not. So we looked at all the different ways that they’re getting leads. And I said, is it staying the same? Is it getting higher? Is it going down? And it was a much larger strategy than just this one nuanced problem that yes, it’s an issue to address in their own process, but it’s a bigger conversation. And so that’s where I’m talking about in terms of approach and alignment.
Yeah, that’s alignment. This is very important. Okay, so what’s the P in the MAP acronym?
Yeah, so the P is people and profit, which you might think, well, that’s a no-brainer. So you got to focus on the people in one respect. And then what’s the profitability or profit margin and are you even focusing on that? What I mean by that is, okay, legacy teams. What do I mean by legacy? What’s the impact that we’re having? What do you wanna leave people with? What’s the tenure and the longevity of a team and what they’re doing? Also, pointing back to the “Why,” because all of these things are intertwined, although they can be looked at individually as well, or in an isolated way.
But if you really want to have a legacy team, you’re clear on the journey that you’re in, your “Why” of why you’re doing it, why are you still doing it? Sometimes that’s a question I like to ask people of like, why are you even still here in the role that you’re in or the team that you’re on or doing the work that you’re doing? Because people do get to a point where they’re ready for something different or the team or the work is at a transitional point and are people holding it back unnecessarily? And this is where innovation and being open to new directions is important to engage in. And then there’s that scalable impact. So if you truly want to grow, how are you supporting yourself in that way so that you can scale? And what’s the impact of that on the work, the individuals, the team, the organization, your suppliers, your stakeholders, your customers, you got to look at all the players involved and then quiet influence. It’s not about being loud.
There's a lot that can happen when you take a pause and you reflect and really look at where you are and where you want to go and why aren't you there yet.
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So if you don’t take the time to do that, then, and you’re just in constant putting out fires, problem solving mode, which is a good place to be, but are you approaching putting out those fires in the right way? Are you solving the real problem or is there something much deeper? And so when you take the time to reflect individually and even collectively and having dialogues that might be important to have that you aren’t currently having, that’s what I mean by quiet influence. And that can very much have an impact on the greater whole.Yeah. So, I mean, I agree that basically what is a business? It’s a bunch of people with a purpose working together and you have to have the right people. They say the A-players are free and there’s money left over because they create value for you. So they are profitable to be employed even if they’re more expensive. And you have to have the right people in the right seat because in the wrong seat, they’re not going to be profitable. Yeah. And there’s the short term and the long term. So this is a complex equation here. But I love it. So mindset and mission, approach and alignment, people and profit. Very good. So one of the things that you raised during our pre-conversation was the importance of self-awareness. Do you believe that people can improve their own self-awareness? And if so, how?
Absolutely. As a living soul, we all have the capacity to improve our self-awareness. Are you just making it a priority? So in terms of the how, first you got to make it a priority. First, you have to realize, okay, so I sometimes teach clients is there’s a distinction between somebody who is self-aware and somebody who’s profoundly self-aware. So what do I mean by that? If I was to go up to a hundred people and ask them, do you think that you’re a self-aware person? I have a feeling that a hundred percent of those people would say, oh yeah, I am definitely self-aware. And yet, if you look at what’s happening in the workplace and in society, things haven’t in some ways gotten better.
Some ways it’s gotten worse and harder and more challenging. Okay, so what do I mean by profoundly self-aware? Let me paint a little bit of a distinction. So the self-aware person will say, if you call them out on something that they do as a behavior, they’ll say, yeah, I know, I do that. Yeah, I know. It’s just who I am and I’ve just accepted that about myself. That’s the self-aware person. And some might say, yeah, well, that’s progress. Okay. And here’s the profoundly self-aware person. The profoundly self-aware person says, I appreciate you bringing that to my attention and you’re right, I do that. And although I’ve accepted that as part of who I am, I’m realizing the impact that it has on me and the impact that it has on other people and I wanna do it differently.
And so I’m gonna start as uncomfortable as it is, start to do that differently and really reflect on why am I doing that? What’s the impact and what are some ways I can? And so I’m going to start practicing that. And in the beginning, it’s more of a reflection back on, oh gosh, I did it again. But you catch it and then you start catching yourself in the middle of it and you might even say, okay, timeout. This is not what I wanted to be doing. Give me a moment. I want to pivot here. And then you get so good at practicing it that you get to a point where you actually catch it ahead of time. And then over time, you start to realize, oh, wow, I’m not even doing that thing anymore. Now, does it mean that you’ll never do it again? Sometimes it depends on what it is. That said,
you might default back to your old way of doing things, but yet you have that profound self-awareness so you'll once again be able to catch yourself. That's what I mean by self-awareness.
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And I think people, everybody has the capacity to do that. They just have to take the time to do it and stop focusing on the how and just do it.Yeah, that’s a very big conversation. I’m probably not a profoundly self-aware person. That’s the face of madness that I’m recognizing here.
What makes you say that?
Because I have certain reactions which are not pleasant for people around me. Okay. I don’t want to turn this into a therapy session, but on the other hand, sometimes I don’t know to turn this into a therapy session, but on the other hand, sometimes I don’t know how to negotiate a situation where you have maybe an unattractive response, but it is being triggered by another thing which is still there. So how do you not react? Is it suppressing emotion? Can you always have an objective, cool-headed conversation in the middle of when this is happening? I don’t know how it’s possible to remove those emotional reactions when the emotion itself has a function. It has a function of calling the attention to something that is an irritant. So it’s a big conversation. I don’t know if you can fit it in to this, but I’m definitely not profoundly self-aware and I’m going to work on it.
I appreciate you saying that. So well, really quickly too. So sometimes you can catch it and pivot in the moment by just kind of saying, hey, time out, give me a minute. This is not going in the direction that I want it to go. And it’s a matter of sinking well, from your head down into your heart. And I’m certified in heart math tools. And if you’re not familiar with that, you can go to heartmath.org and they have a lot of free information too. That said, I am certified as a facilitator or heart math coach and using some of their techniques, but it’s about sinking, moving from your head to your heart. And the science of the heart is really powerful and stop doing it again.
And believe it or not, more information travels from our heart to our brain than from the other direction. And this is about 5,000 times more powerful electrically than our brain. And so being able to sink in your heart and say, hey, wait a second, this is not how I wanted this to go. Can I just share a few thoughts with you. Now, if you can’t do that because you’re in your amygdala going to brain science, which I’m a geek about too. If you go into your amygdala and the other person’s in their amygdala, both of you are in your survival brain, you’re not gonna have a productive conversation. So the most productive thing in that moment is to say, you know what? We could probably have a more productive conversation than this. Maybe this isn’t the right time.
Let’s both go away from this and think about really what we’re talking about, what we’re trying to achieve together here, whether it has to do with the topic at hand, the relationship that we have or how we’re communicating about it. And let’s come back and figure out how we can do this differently. Talk about doing something with purpose and intention and really getting a handle on how you’re maybe getting derailed emotionally. Because yes, we are emotional beings and I’m not saying avoid your emotions, I’m not saying suppress them because that’s not productive either.
It's merely a matter of acknowledging them and recognizing that we do have this amazing heart brain connection and we can with intention do things differently when you catch it.
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Yeah, that’s a really good point. So final question, maybe it feels a little bit disconnected. What is the most important thing that you believe an entrepreneur or a business owner should be asking themselves on a daily basis?
Well, it’s not necessarily just one thing, if I may. I once learned from a mentor of mine, three very simple questions that I also love sharing with. As a leader in a corporate environment, you can use them too. And they’re very much helpful for entrepreneurs and small business owners. The three simple questions that you can ask at different stages, and you will probably get different answers every time is, number one, what needs to change? The second is what do you need to let go of? And the third is who do you need to hire? Because if you are scaling and growing, you can’t do it alone, whether that means you hire a contractor or you hire a part-time employee, or you bring somebody on full-time of which you get to define and what makes the most sense for your business, depending on what your needs are, what your budgets are and where you are in your growth.
So those are three simple questions that you could ask yourself. Again, what needs to change? What do I need to let go of? And who do I need to hire? And sometimes the answers to those questions are a person, a thing, it could be a belief system, a mindset, a process. So that’s where having a coach can be really helpful to help you figure out what that looks like for you and how that’s applicable to your business, your team, your organization, and what you’re trying to achieve in the work that you’re doing. Does that answer your question?
Yeah, it’s a really good one. What I’m hearing, it’s kind of the idea of the creative destruction. So sometimes we have to stop doing things. We have to do more of a good thing, less good thing. And then maybe we need to hire someone or maybe we had to let someone go. And these are often uncomfortable realizations because you may like that person or you may not want the headache of bringing in someone else who might not work out either. And you take energy. But these are important questions because you’re building a business and the business is made up of people. And if you’re trying to wear all the hats, then you’re not gonna go anywhere with your business. So that’s a very pertinent question. Thank you. Well, so if people would like to learn more, maybe want to have a conversation with you on how you could help them with more self-awareness or asking the right questions, where can they find you and where should they learn more about you?
So my website is i-love-my-life.com. It has dashes in between. So it’s i-love-my-life.com. And then I’m also on LinkedIn a lot. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Alanna Levenson. I’m also on Facebook and Instagram, and I do have a YouTube channel where I’ll post tips and videos about some of the aha moments that come out of coaching sessions that might be helpful to other people. I’m not going to spill the beans on it yet, but I am creating my own podcast, even though I’ve been, I appreciate being on other people’s podcasts and I have a couple of other collaborations, but I am in the midst of creating my own and I’m really excited about it. So keep an eye out, cause I’ll be announcing that in the next probably month or two to get that launched.
Okay. Well, definitely we’ll be on the lookout for that. I’m sure it’s going to be very exciting. And when you’re the host, you can ask a lot of good questions, probably better ones than I did. So, Alanna Levenson, business coach and virtual facilitator, helping driven business owners take no excuses action. Thank you for coming on the show, sharing your experiences and insights. And for those who are listening, if you enjoyed the show, make sure you follow us on YouTube and stay tuned because every week, we have one or two exciting coaches and business owners come and share their experiences with us. So thank you for coming. Thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Alanna’s LinkedIn * Alanna’s website
https://youtu.be/Me3XLCOh1iMCarla Fowler, MD, PhD and CEO of THAXA Executive Coaching, is driven by a mission to help ambitious leaders perform at their best by applying the principles of performance science.
We explore Carla’s journey from scientist to coach and explore her Performance Framework, a science-based model that guides high achievers through four core areas: strategy, execution, mindset, and physiology. Carla explains how strategic clarity and resource prioritization drive focused leadership, and how physiological resilience and mental perspective are essential to long-term success. She also shares how she applies scientific tools to coaching engagements to help leaders build empowered teams and make high-quality decisions under uncertainty.
—Tap into Performance Science with Carla FowlerGood day, dear listeners, it’s Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And today my guest is Carla Fowler, who is an MD, a PhD, and also the CEO of THAXA Executive Coaching, which helps CEOs and executives with clarity, focus, growth, and support using a proprietary process based on performance science. So welcome to the show, Carla.
Thanks so much, Steve. It’s really fun to be here chatting with you.
It’s exciting to have a scientist who is also a coach because I love to combine the two and to have the scientific approach in coaching. I’m trying to do the same thing, but I’m sure I’m not mastering it to the degree that you are. So I’m all ears of how that works. But let’s start with my favorite question for guests, which is, what is your personal “Why” that drives you to do what you’re doing and how are you manifesting it in your practice?
I love that you asked this question, Steve, because I think taking this moment, like there are often a lot of different “Why’s” along the way, but for me, I think in reflection, one big “Why” was that as a young person growing up, I always looked out at the world and saw there were a lot of things you could go do. There were exciting goals that you could set for yourself. And I wanted to figure out how to go do that. That was just a very pure sort of desire that even as a young person I had. And I also was very interested, I mean, I certainly had some talents, but I wanted to know like, what could someone do? What did someone have control over? To have more agency in your life as you were trying to navigate and do all of that.
And so I think for me, how this manifest was number one, an interest in science, like approaching things scientifically, because certainly my coaching practice, I look at performance from a scientific standpoint, which is to say, what are the principles that really guide how we perform and how it is received and what results we get that has nothing to do with our talent? I mean, we get whatever talent we’re born with and we don’t really get to control that. But
when we think about performance scientifically, now we're talking about things that anyone could access that might help them improve their leadership and I really liked that idea.
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Like it motivates me not just for myself to say, well, these are principles I can access, but also to say, these are principles I can share with other people. And regardless of what talent they were born with, we could use them and apply them in day-to-day life and work. That would be really helpful to them. And to me, that just feels like motivating. It feels inclusive, and that’s my “Why.”Wow. Okay, so let’s dig in and see how that works. So these scientific principles, so how do you connect it to the work at hand? So you’re talking to a CEO or an executive, you’re trying to figure out what they need to do to perform better. How do you apply principles? Like you observe what’s going on and then intuitively some principles flash into your mind and then you say, okay, that would work here or you have a process that you walk people through?
It’s a little bit of both. I think coaching has to be very individualized. I don’t think anyone wants to be sort of run through a bunch of modules that don’t feel like they fit their particular situation. On the other hand, one of the good things about having a process is it means that coaching doesn’t wander into just sort of a coffee chat that feels really good, but that doesn’t get you in there. Part of the way I build some of these principles into coaching is in number one, how I set up how we get started.
So, a great example of this is when I start working with a client, we do a longer form session and you could view it as a bit of discovery about getting to know them and their situation. But
we start out by focusing on one of the first principles right at the start, because I think it’s one of the most important, and I think it really sets us up for success.
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And we’re probably going to get into this, but we’ll just jump the gun a little bit and say that I think when we think about performance, one of the big buckets is strategy. And what I mean by that is saying, Hey, there are lots of things you could do, and there are lots of goals you could go after, but we need to be focused and clear about what few goals are we going after? And also what are the most important priorities that we might invest our resources or our energy in to actually get towards those? So, in coaching, I think this is a very powerful question to start with. And I combine that in a longer session. It’s three hours and we chat and I ask questions, but a lot of the questions I ask are trying to get at what’s most important to that executive, like what are the objectives that really matter in their space or to their business? And then also to try and ask questions to understand what priorities might be most important for their team to be focusing their energy on, or even for that executive to be thinking about or spending more time researching or learning about, or where’s the money most potently spent?
And so we start there and try and get some clarity on those things, because then as we move through coaching and even move through the other buckets of performance science principles, I find that everything we do is more potent and tends to get more of the results that it would get. That’s how we start and that’s a very structured piece.
Okay, so strategy is the start. So I think you call it The Performance Framework or what is the name? The Performance Framework. So you have this Performance Framework. So, okay, what is the strategy? What are we trying to focus on? What is the most important thing to move the needle on? So that’s the first phase of it. So what are the other phases? There are four phases, right?
That’s correct. Yes. So the other phases are strategy. We start there, we will come back to that. It’s not one and done, but the other three buckets are, we have to think a little bit about execution and often it’s how is the team executing, not just how is the individual executing, that’s number two. Number three is we think a lot about mindset because a lot of entrepreneurship and running a business is that it’s a long game. It’s not a sprint. In very few cases, it is a sprint and then you’re done and you exit and everyone throws the party. That’s not the common scenario. And so we really wanna think about mindset. How do you stay in it? How do you feel confident even when you’re having to do something new or if you’re facing a lot of uncertainty, which is almost very prevalent now and is always the case when you’re starting a business or being an entrepreneur, you’re making bets.
And so
the mindset matters because it is something that we have to bolster over time.
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Then the fourth bucket is really, it might be surprising, but it’s physiology. I have a medical background, but what I often think about is how our physiology, so things that impact that, like how much sleep we got or are we in good health? Are we exercising? Do we have some ways to calm ourselves? Physiology has a lot to do with things that may seem disconnected, but are connected. Even things like charisma, decision-making, how well we’re able to connect to other people, how well we’re able to reassure or bolster confidence in others. Turns out our physiology matters also. So those are three other buckets.These are the buckets. So, strategy, execution, mindset, and physiology. So it sounds like only half of the buckets are about what you do and the other half are about who you are and what you think.
I love how you broke that down. Yeah, and what’s great is there are different ways to approach any problem. Client could come in with a particular issue and one of the things we can always ask ourselves because we have these principles and this is where in ongoing coaching, I don’t necessarily have a specific like, oh, now we go to this or now we go to this. What I listen for is, given the challenge they’re having or even the opportunity they want to go after, what are all the different principles that could be at play here? And then I can even ask the client, I say, Hey, I can see some different ways we could approach this. Are any of them popping out to you as most resonant or that seem the easiest, like the lowest hanging fruit? Like, okay, let’s start there. Build some momentum. So this is what I love about performance science.
That’s great. So I’m thinking about tennis, which people talk a lot about it’s an individual sport. It’s a professional sport and people take a lot of coaching in tennis. So tennis players often they have different coaches. Often they have a separate coach for serving, for keeping in shape, and then you have a strategy coach. So I’m just thinking about these different areas. Would you say that it is a leadership related thing that these soft areas like minds. Maybe it’s not soft at all, but essentially the thinking piece and the staying in shape piece, that they are so critical or they would be critical for any type of job?
Oh, that’s a great question. I think they matter for any job that these things do come into play. Maybe the reason it comes out more strikingly for leadership is because of the amount of pressure that is typically there, the amount of stretch that leaders are often pushed into or drawn into to do something really challenging. And they’re usually the front person. They are responsible at the end of the day for everything. And also they’re not in control of everything. Not that any of us are, but I think the point is when you lead something that is more than just a single person business, for example, immediately you have other people who are executing and who are carrying out pieces of the business. When you scale that with investors, now you have a whole host of other people that you have to satisfy as well as have ideas and things. So it may just be that because
leaders are often pushed more to the edge, managing all of those categories becomes more important.
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Yeah, it brings to mind, there was an interview with Jeff Bezos, and he talked about how he is not involved in managing his companies anymore. And basically what he said was that his main job each day is to make not more than three decisions, but three good decisions. And he does a lot of work to stay fit, to be rested in order to make those decisions right. So it sounds like he has more than 50% of his buckets or 50% of what he does or what he needs to be in those latter two buckets. So it’s not even a 50-50, maybe it’s a 5-95 distribution. So I wonder whether when someone is moving up the ladder and they go from doing things to leading people and to coming up with a vision and maybe to leading leaders, as you’re elevating the ideas, the communication, the energy projection, and just your being is becoming more important and then you have to put more energy into it. Is this how you see it?
That’s an interesting observation. I think that I suspect, and of course I’m talking out of turn here, I suspect that to make those one to three really good decisions takes a ton of strategic effort and investment in learning and thinking. I might say the execution bucket probably does decrease quite a bit, but the other three buckets still potentially are quite important. And maybe the execution bucket, what that has really become is really good decisions about who your very next line of leadership is. And that even though it may not be that many people, that the decision in who you hire, who you pick, who then of course is going to have much more influence on that execution. That’s a strategic decision, but that impacts the execution bucket. But I might be splitting hairs at this point. I think it’s a really interesting observation, Steve.
Or maybe the execution is the communication. Maybe it’s about being in those meetings and arguing the point and listening to research, to other people’s positions and try to synthesize things. And maybe that’s the execution. It’s not by hand. So how much time do you spend on each of those buckets? Is strategy more an upfront thing and then it becomes less of the time or does it not even matter? How do you share your time between the different buckets with a typical client?
It depends. And it depends both where the client’s strengths are, but also sometimes what the context is that they’re dealing with. So for example, I’ve encountered clients who have kind of a buoyant personality. Their mindset is often in a pretty good place. So in terms of just their sense of optimism, willingness to like keep going on stuff, we don’t necessarily need to bolster that very much versus for a different person where something’s really difficult, like things have been really chaotic. And maybe not through any of their own doing. It’s just the situation they came into. We might have to spend more time there because they’re working really hard and it may be a slow journey to seeing results. And so we have to figure out how to keep them in there.
But I think
one of the interesting things about strategy that I will bring up is you can use strategy as a lens, both they're sort of high-level strategy.
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Like in your business, what is maybe the objective or the goal for the year, or what’s the competitive advantage you’re going to pursue in the marketplace? How you’re going to compete. That’s the kind of big level strategy. But even in just other kinds of situations or challenges that come up, one can still address things from a strategic point of view. This is a great tool people can use, even if they’re not at their strategic planning part, let’s say of the year, is to say when something comes up and you’re like, how am I going to deal with this? Or how do I want to approach this challenge that has arisen? You can always ask three questions or spend some time thinking and then ask some three questions as prompts to help you approach things less from a reactive standpoint and much more from a strategic standpoint. So the three questions I like to ask, and these are true for high level strategy as well, are what is it I want to have happen? This is the simplest way, not even what is my goal, but it’s like, what do I want out of this? What is the outcome that is most important? And if there was a sub outcome, maybe what would that be? But like try to not have a list of 20 outcomes you’re trying to achieve because that means we’ve lost our clarity. And then the second question is, what do I think is actually going to be most important in driving towards that outcome? There may be many things that we could do or work on, but what’s probably the most important? You could also view this as sort of that 80-20 rule, that we get 80% of our results from about 20% of our efforts.
And then I think the third question, which is one of my favorites, is what is going to distract us or me? What is the red herring or the emotional button that’s getting pushed that is going to be a total like distraction as I’m trying to navigate this circumstance versus if I can just focus on what is probably needed to encourage the outcome I want. And so this is a tool I use for strategy to just simplify it and also to help people think strategically, even outside those moments when you’re very clearly in your like planning moment, even if you’re just an executive sitting in a meeting listening to what’s happening and trying to decide what your biggest value add could be, is to run through those questions in your head and it will often hone what you say, make it clear to the audience, and also not overstep and get to meddling in what is probably weeds you shouldn’t be in.
Yeah, I love it. These are great questions. And I like to ask the first two questions with my clients, but I haven’t thought about the third one. I think it’s very important. So the way we use the first two questions or something similar to the first two questions, when we figure out who’s doing what in a company, then we figure out the functions that they do, whether it’s sales, marketing, engineering, administration, whatever they are. And then we look for those outcomes. What are those one or two big outcomes? And then how do you drive those outcomes with a weekly activity?
So what’s the KPI that’s going to go and drive the outcome? And it might not drive it, we can then tweak it, but what is that? But I really like the distraction piece because that is what’s preventing some of those activities in happening, the distraction. And as you were explaining it, I was just thinking about myself and my businesses that I have some distractions in my business. I have to remove them. I have to start thinking about removing them to make time, energy for those important activities that will drive the outcome. This is very helpful. Well, thank you. Thank you. So, is this just a strategy piece or in the other buckets that also applies?
I think one can always ask those questions in the other buckets. The buckets aren’t independent. They influence each other. And so certainly you could ask the question like, Hey, when I think about execution, like that sort of falls into like, once you’ve decided what the priorities are, you could also then start to say you define KPIs. That’s a great way of saying, okay, well, in executing this priority, what is actually the activity that is perhaps most important. Or what’s the leading and the lagging indicators that we would want to be looking at measuring tracking.
One of the things I think about a lot, just coming up back to a principle level for that execution buckets. Now we’re moving on to bucket number two, we’ll talk about some tools. That one of the things I like to think about is how do you empower your team to execute efficiently, more effectively? Because once a business grows to a particular size, like again, as the leader, you’re probably not actually doing the execution. And so thinking about your team matters a lot. So there are three pieces. When I think about making a very powerful team, or you could even say cultivating the power of your team is how I put it. There’s three different elements to it that are great for a leader to be thinking about.
One is just capability. So
this idea that if you can have your team growing in their skill and their capability, they are going to produce more for you over time. Like that's, it's an investment that is good for them because as human beings, actually we are motivated when…
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Okay. So capability is the first one. Influence is the second one. And the reason I think about influence is because we as people, part of how we feel important at work or how we feel like we are contributing, why we feel like we matter. And all of this is very linked to motivation and kind of the mindset. But is, do we feel like we have a say or some influence on what’s happening? If we know, for example, what our role is and why that matters to the group objectives, why it’s important. But also, for example, if we’re trying to solve a problem and there are moments where the team is actually asked, do you have ideas about this? Like, are we approaching this in the right way? Or is there something we’re missing?
That ability to influence decision-making is very motivating to a team.
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Also, your team often sees stuff that you don’t see and often can hold the key to a problem. So influence is a second piece. And then the third piece is visibility. Visibility is an interesting thing. So number one, teams, when they are recognized for their contribution, that is again, highly motivating, keeps people really engaged in their work, which is both good for them as an individual, also really good for the company. But visibility also matters because it is part of how you sort of influence the network and get things done. So for example, within a company, you have a particular team and they are known for what they’re able to produce, how well they do it. This could even be your accounting team. An internal service provider. But if they’re known within the company as like great to work with, can get your questions answered, can make things happen. Suddenly your other departments may be talking to them sooner and earlier, and things may be going better because of it. There might be better budgetary planning or fill in the blank.
The goal is that being visible does matter. And that can be both external to the company as well as internal to the company.
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So these are three elements that I often think about that are not always obvious, but create really empowered teams and teams that are able to get things done.Yeah. I love it. I’ve never thought about it this way. I have experienced people, obviously learning is fun and when people learn and they know they grow, it’s just the learning itself is fun, but it also increases their market value as employees. So they know that they’re in a good place because even though maybe their salary is not rising, but their value is rising and they know that it’s going to have an impact down the road. The influence, yeah, I mean, if we all want to have a meaningful job and if you don’t influence, if you’re not part of a bigger picture and we don’t impact or we don’t know how to impact it, then that’s not motivating. But if you do, that really is. And if it’s visible, then other people know that we are making the impact. So that makes a lot of sense. Okay, well, we are running out of time, but what else about the mindset that you might want to talk about? How do we improve the mindset of our team and of ourselves?
This is a great place to finish up because we can wrap in a little bit of physiology here too. So in mindset, I think one of the biggest things that leaders and team members are dealing with is uncertainty. I think uncertainty is one of the hardest things that we can come up against with our mindset these days. When I think about mindset, there are both actions we can take and also perspectives we can take that are helpful.
So one perspective that I think is really important in the face of uncertainty is to understand that the stress that we feel in the face of that, the discomfort we feel, which is very biological, by the way, our brains were built to not like…
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A lot of it has to do with how we think about it. And so, a flip side of a way to think about uncertainty is to say that if we had no uncertainty in our work and our life, we would be bored out of our minds and there would be no growth, there would be no opportunity, and that that would not actually be a very good human state to be in. And it’s helpful to remember that the opposite is a not good place. And then it can be helpful to reframe the uncertainty as like, this is something I don’t know yet, but it actually can be a force for good in terms of my own growth. And also it is probably in service of something I really care about. And it’s just good to have things you care about in your life. It means you are engaged. It means you’re impacting things. So from a mindset standpoint, as a leader, you can help kind of reframe it for your team, but also reframe it for yourself.
The yin and yang, it’s the risk and opportunity thing, right?
Exactly. But frame it. And you’re not trying to say it’s all good. Like no one will believe you if you say that. But I like it how you said it. The yin and the yang. You say this is part of why we have some good is because we are having the risk. And so they come together. And then in terms of actions that you can take that are really helpful, I think number one is you can help your team understand what do you do in the face of uncertainty.
And there's usually two things. Number one, you can spend some time thinking. And number two, you can spend some time learning.
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Because uncertainty often highlights a gap between what we know right now and what we might need to know to be successful in a new context, in a new environment. I think we all, as people, feel better when we have a plan. And so one of the plans you can make in the face of uncertainty is to say, what do we want to learn about? What are the topics we need to think about and maybe think about our values on? And then finally, what experiments could we run? So you get to be a scientist and you can say, well, how could we learn some answers, even though they’re not things we could read in a book or find on the internet? What could we try? And I think that’s very powerful for people to have a plan.
Then the last piece, the physiology, is that uncertainty revs up our fight or flight system. There’s often a lot of adrenaline. And so just a little bit about physiology, This is a wonderful time when things are uncertain to take extra care, to find ways to bring your system back down again. Our systems are capable of handling adrenaline, they were built to handle it, but they do better when we get some rest and recovery and then ramp back up. So things like sleep, a breathing practice or like a meditation, just even like one minute of deep breathing can be really powerful during a stressful day. Going outside or going for a walk, it doesn’t even have to be intense exercise, just moving your body will process some of that. Being outside is very good for us as human beings. So a couple of tips on that physiology front, like how you can help with that.
Yeah, I love it. This is a really good perspective through the scientist’s lens that how do we control, how do we manage our mindset, how do we manage our physiology, how we reframe things. My grandfather always used to say that there’s a kernel of good in every bad, and that I would ask him if someone died, what’s good about that, and kind of put him on the spot. But yeah, I mean, Napoleon here talks about that as well. It’s a great reframe. And yeah, I love it. I love it. It’s all the four buckets and definitely gives a lot to talk about with the CEO who is going through these things. These buckets are pretty deep. So there’s a lot fit in those buckets. So Carla, if someone is really intrigued by this and they would like to either have you talk to them to explore these buckets and their mindset and their strategy and so on, or if they want to learn more about your techniques and what you do, where can they find you and your staff and how can they connect with you?
Yeah, thanks for that, Steve. Well, I love connecting with people and if you’re interested in hearing more about performance science, LinkedIn is a great place to connect and follow along. So I’m at www.linkedin.com/in/carla-fowler. And then if you’re interested in learning more about coaching, my website is a wonderful place to go. You can message me through the site and also there’s a great FAQ page. So that’s at thaxa.com.
So definitely check out thaxa.com by mind or by brain. Very interesting. I asked you during the pre-interview why THAXA and you said that it’s Latin for task, but I should have asked the follow-up questions. Okay, so why are tasks so important?
So I liked it because I think the first performance principle I ever learned in my life was that if you want to do something really big or ambitious, you don’t have to do it all in one step. It’s just a series of lining up the right smaller tasks in a row and stacking them up. A lot of coaching is helping people do that. They’ve got ambitious goals and lots on their plate. So I love just thinking about how do we break this down into the manageable tasks that they can stack up.
Wow. That’s very profound. So I love this metaphor, and James Clear in Atomic Habits, he talks about habit stacking. And I like this idea of habit stacking. And I like to think that when I work with companies that that’s what I want to do with them. So teach them another approach and then ingrain it so that it’s going to be part of their arsenal going forward and kind of habit stack them so that they become more and more powerful as this time goes on. So that’s fascinating. So Carla Fowler, MD and PhD, the scientist of coaching, and CEO of THAXA Executive Coaching. Check her out on LinkedIn, check her out on thaxa.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, and if you’re like me, then you probably have. If you like to think about what is behind different concepts and what makes them tick, then stay tuned because we get more and more exciting thought leaders and CEOs come on the show and explain how they make their businesses run. So, thanks for coming, Carla, and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* The 8 Biggest Mistakes People Make When Choosing a Coach (and how to avoid them!) * Carla’s website * Carla’s social media handles: * https://www.linkedin.com/in/carla-fowler/ * https://twitter.com/DrCarlaFowler * https://www.instagram.com/drcarlafowler/
https://youtu.be/_FFUS8tb-b4Michael E. Gerber, author of The E-Myth Revisited and over 35 other books, is driven by a mission to transform the state of small business, entrepreneurship, and economic development worldwide.
We explore Michael’s origin story and the moment that sparked the E-Myth movement, including his revelation that most business owners don’t understand their own businesses. He shares how his intuitive and soul-driven approach led to the creation of the first business operating system and the now-iconic principle of “working on your business, not in it.” Michael introduces his Eightfold Path Framework, built on the eight discrete personalities of an entrepreneur: The Dreamer, Thinker, Storyteller, Leader, Designer, Builder, Launcher, and Grower. We also discuss his Dreaming Room methodology, the Radical You 5-year entrepreneurial school, and how AI is enabling the creation of 199 vertical-market E-Myth books.
—Awaken Your Inner Entrepreneur with Michael E. GerberGood day, dear listeners. So guess who I have here as my guest today. After five years, we finally got to the day when I can interview Michael E. Gerber, who is the author of the E-Myth Revisited, E-Myth Mastery and 35 other best-selling books that have sold over 5 million copies in 30 languages and 150 countries. Michael was the original mastermind behind the concept of the first business operating system back in 1986. And he coined the idea of Working On Your Business, Rather Than In Your Business, which idea touched at least 100 million entrepreneurs worldwide. So Michael is also currently the founder at age 88, almost 89. He is the founder and CEO of the Michael E. Gerber companies, owning programs including Gerber Works, Radical You, Become The One, and The Dreaming Room most recently, and he owns the rights to 35 E-Myth books. So Michael, without further ado, welcome to the Management Blueprint Podcast.
I’m delighted to be here. Thank you, Steve.
I’m so excited because really, I read your book back in the early 2000s. I got immediately smitten. I actually started a side business trying to implement your system without any training from you, which unfortunately was not successful. So I had to close down my side business, but we definitely implemented it in my own business. And I was just very enamored. I also got a dog-eared copy of E-Myth Mastery, which is like a big volume, and I kind of went through all the ideas there. And finally, to have you be a guest is a great honor, and it’s a very exciting day.
I’m delighted to be here. Thank you.
So, Michael, I’m going to start with my favorite question, even though you are like a super guest here, but tell me about your personal “Why” and how it influenced your life and how it got you where you are at age 88, almost 89, still going strong, still being an entrepreneur. So, what was that “Why” that you had and have?
Well, I have said it so many times, it’s to transform the state of small business worldwide. To transform the state of small business worldwide. I can almost dance to it because that is what I’ve been working on all these years. And in the heart of that is to transform the state of entrepreneurship worldwide. And in the process of accomplishing each of those to transform the state of economic development worldwide. Because were
I capable of doing the first in order to do the second, I would absolutely achieve that result, economic development worldwide.
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And within that resides the spirit of all that, but you know all about that.Well, I mean, I know as much as you’ve written down and as much as you told me, I definitely know that part. I don’t know what’s going on in your mind because you’re still being creative. You’re still developing programs, which is amazing to me. I like to be like you when I get to your age. It’s definitely awesome. So tell me about the beginning. What prompted you to write the E-Myth? That was the original book in 1986, the E-Myth, and then 1995 you came out with the E-Myth Revisited, which was a fable book, the first one potentially in business. So what was this thing that prompted you to create the E-Myth and to start this Working On Your Business movement back in 1986?
Well, I was invited by my brother-in-law, his name is Ace, Ace Freeman. He’s still alive, he’s still my brother-in-law, to come visit one of his clients. Ace had a small advertising agency in Silicon Valley. And his problem was his clients weren’t able to convert the leads that Ace was creating for them into sales. So, Ace asked me to come visit one of his clients and see what the problem was. I told Ace at the very beginning, I don’t know anything about business, Ace. And Ace said, Michael, you know more than you think you do. So just shut up, come visit Bob and let’s see what happens. So I’m fond of let’s see what happens, because that’s the story of my life. Let’s see what happens. So we went to visit Bob and Ace told us that he’s going to take off for an hour and for us to get to know each other. So Bob asked me, what do you know about my business, Michael? And I said nothing, Bob. And he looked a little discomforted.
If you don’t know anything about my business, how can you help me? So he essentially then asked me, what do I know about his product? And I said, less than that, Bob. So if you don’t know anything about my business, you don’t know anything about my product, and on and on and on. You get the point. So I said, we’ve got an hour to kill, let’s find out. So I started asking Bob questions. And it became obvious to me as I began to ask Bob questions, that while I didn’t know anything about his business, Bob didn’t either. And it was astonishing to me. He’s a guy in Silicon Valley, started a company with a product that’s built upon a software system. He’s got salespeople who aren’t successfully selling his product. And I was blown away that Bob didn’t know anything about his business either. It was astonishing to me. And I asked Bob if he had the selling system. And he said, what do you mean by a selling system? I said, well, if you’re asking me that question, Bob, you don’t have one. And that’s your problem. You’re bringing aboard salespeople with sales experience and knowledge of your technology.
You don’t have a system through which they’re all of them engaging your clients and the absence of that system is the problem. So Bob asked me, can you create that system? Of course, Bob. So when Ace comes back to pick me up, he said, so what happened? So I said, well, Bob just hired me. He said, hired you to do what? Hired me to create a selling system. He said, how in hell are you going to do that? You don’t know anything about his business. You don’t know anything about his product. I said, I told you that before we got here, Ace. The reality is I know more than Bob does. And honestly, Ace, I know more than you do. So, I’m going to create the selling system for Bob. And I did. And it worked. It was the way their salespeople now sold what Bob was selling. Suddenly, Bob understood his problem, but not totally, because I discovered then that Bob didn’t have a management system either or a marketing system either. In short, Bob didn’t have a methodology through which he operated his company. And it blew my mind. And Bob was only the first of Ace’s clients that I did the very same thing with.
And each and every single one of them, Steve, had identically the same problem. It blew my mind. It was remarkable to me. And what was also remarkable to me is that Ace didn’t have one either, and he didn’t let me do it for him. So I finally said, I’m going to go out and do this by myself. So Ace brought a guy in to replace me. The guy’s name was Tom Travisano. So Tom watched me for a while doing what I did, and he said to me, where are you going, Michael, when you leave here? I said, I’m going to start a company of my own to do what I’ve been doing here for Ace. And Tom said, I’m going with you. And so we left and created our very first company.
It was the Michael Thomas Corporation (MTC), to do exactly what I just shared with you. And we did that for almost 10 years before I wrote my first book. A guy had come to one of my seminars. At the end of the seminar, he said, how would you like to write a book? I said, about what? He said, what you just said in the seminar. I said, sure. He said, I’m going to go back to Ballinger Books and tell them I’ve got a guy to write that book they want to get written on small business. And I’ll get back to you and let you know what they say. He got back to me, said, they want to do it. And I’m going to edit it, he said. So we started to write that book. And I wrote that book in about three months.
That was the first book. That was the E-myth. Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What To Do About It. And that's the beginning of the story.
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Yeah, and that was HarperCollins who actually issued it. So it was a major business publisher at the time. They seemed to recognized the idea immediately, and they embraced it.
Yeah, absolutely.
So what happened, because you came out with the E-Myth in 1986, so I’m just counting the years. So you must have been in your early 30s when you had Ace approach you and you did this management consulting for Bob.
I was 40.
You were 40. Okay, so 1986, that was almost 40 years ago. So if you’re 88, you must have written a book at 47, 48, 49 and then 10 years earlier. Yeah. So you were basically…
Don’t confuse me, Steve. Whatever it was, however it was, here we are.
What I’m curious about, Michael, is the original E-Myth book, this was just a non-fiction book, and then you turned it into the E-Myth Revisited, which is a business fable. Since then, because Lencioni has written a bunch of business fables, I wrote one myself, which is nowhere near yours. But what we know is that business fables are a much better way to communicate ideas. So how did you come up on this idea to rewrite it as a business theory?
When you ask me, how did I come up with the ideas? I haven’t had any business training. I had no business education. Everything I’ve written has been written through my intuition and my experience. So as I’m speaking to a small business owner and as I hear what they are attempting to do, I intuitively understood what was missing in the way they were doing it. So everything I’ve created, Steve, has been created based upon my intuition.
Intuition is a profoundly important ingredient. It's one of the great ingredients missing in most small businesses. So it's very, very important to understand what's missing in most of the work written about business.
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It’s the intuitive genius that’s required at the heart of entrepreneurship. Great entrepreneurs are intuitive. Everybody else isn’t. And what’s missing in most work about business, management, leadership, marketing, et cetera, and so forth, what’s missing is that intuitive genius that’s crucial to create. You know what’s said in Genesis? Born in the image of God, born to create a world fit for God. How does one create intuitively? How does one develop one’s intuition by generating a passion, a love for the creation? What’s missing in almost everything that’s written about business? Everything that’s written about business writes about the mechanics of it. You asked a question about EOS and on and on and on and on and on. They’re all about the mechanics of it. The mechanics of management, the mechanics of leadership, the mechanics of etc, etc, etc. It ain’t about the mechanics, Steve. It’s about the love. It’s about the passion. It’s about the heart. It’s about the soul. The soul of a great business, the soul of a great enterprise, the soul of a great leader, the soul of a great manager, and so forth.
I love that, and you write about this in The E-Myth Revisited, when you talk to Sarah about the bakery shop. You talk about love, the passion, the intuition, and yeah, I love this idea of the intuition. John Lennon has a song, Intuition. I think I can’t sing it, but it’s a wonderful song and the lyrics are really great. I recommend you check it out. I’m sure you know it anyway. So yeah, that’s great. So the passion, definitely without passion, it’s probably impossible to build a great business because it’s too hard to do it without the love and passion that you talk about. So what is your favorite concept of the E-Myth books? Is there a favorite concept that you have?
The favorite concept, obviously, is summarized with going to Work On Your Business, Rather Than In Your Business. And by on your business, I’m talking about way up here, looking down on your business, the whole of it, the entirety of it, seeing it from that perspective, you’re suddenly removed from it to experience it in a completely different way than you do when you’re in it, doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it. So that’s the soul of what I speak about when I engage anyone who is an owner/operator of a small company, what I call the smallest of the small. I have to pull them out because until I can pull them out, we’re so consumed by everything they have to do that they can’t be relieved of what they have to do.
But once I’m capable, able to pull them out of it, to begin to look down upon it, much like Ray Kroc did in his first McDonald’s store, he built his franchise prototype to get the first one right. In fact, that was just a little bit ago. The anniversary of the very first McDonald’s store was on April 15th. He created his first store. Now, understand he didn’t create it. The McDonald Brothers did. Ray Kroc simply grew it, but he didn’t grow it until he rebuilt it in such a way that it worked beautifully, systemically, perfectly. So then he could open his second one. Huge mistake almost everybody makes is they don’t do that.
Yeah, I love the concept that you talk about the franchise prototype concept. I think it’s a really good way to articulate that you have to build a perfectly working machine before you start replicating it. Because if you have a half-baked thing, then you’re going to replicate the bad machine, the imperfect machine and that’s the worst chaos. You don’t want to do that. You want to do the prototype, which is a really interesting one.
I like to say every small business is a franchise. And so the business format franchise model is absolutely crucial. Every single operating business on the planet, if every new company, every startup, would start up as though they were going to franchise it, failure would be completely eradicated. If every single startup were started up like a franchise, it would be immensely transformational.
Yeah, because basically what you want is you don’t want to be a slave to your business. You want the business to be operable by anyone else, which means you have to make it a franchise prototype so that this is possible. That’s what makes it possible. I love this idea.
But I’m gonna understand Steve, it’s not so that you don’t become a slave to your business. It’s so that you transform the state of your business into an operating system that can produce the dream that you have, the great result you intend to produce. That’s why I’ve created the Eightfold Path.
The Eightfold Path is built upon the eight discrete personalities of a great entrepreneur.
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And those are linear: the Dream, the Vision, the Purpose, the Mission, the Job, the Practice, the Business, the Enterprise. So I ask every single business owner, what’s your dream? First, the dream. Second, the vision. Third, the purpose. Fourth, the mission, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it starts out with, I have a dream. I have a vision. I have a purpose. I have a mission. First a dream, second a vision, third the purpose, fourth the mission. Based upon what? Every great entrepreneur is a dreamer. Every great entrepreneur then is a thinker. Every great entrepreneur is a storyteller. Every great entrepreneur is a leader. First a dreamer, second a thinker, third a storyteller, fourth a leader. I have a dream, I have a vision, I have a purpose, I have a mission. You get me? The job is the designer of the client fulfillment system. The practice is the builder of what I call the three-legged stool, the franchise prototype. Lead generation, lead conversion, client fulfillment, the three-legged stool. Every practice desiring to become a business. So the practice is the business format franchise prototype. The business is up to seven turnkey practices, plus a turnkey management system. The enterprise is up to seven turnkey businesses, plus a turnkey leadership system. A dream, a vision, a purpose, a mission, a job, a practice, a business, and enterprise.
The evolution of an enterprise from a company of one to a company of 1000. And therein resides the platform upon which a great growing company is designed, built, launched, and grown. So you might say it’s the evolution of a great growing company. Now, if every single startup were started up in exactly the way I just described, a dream, a vision, it would profound positive impact upon entrepreneurship, upon small business, upon economic development. If you were to speak that, if you were to teach that, I’m telling you, Steve, it would blow your mind.
It does blow my mind. I think it’s a wonderful concept. I’m very passionate about it. And I love listening to you telling me about it. And I have a question. Can I ask you a question about this?
Of course.
You say that every business should start with a dream, but you also say that it’s technicians who start businesses, it’s not entrepreneurs.
Of course.
So what happens when a technician starts the business and they want to turn themselves into an entrepreneur? How do they do that?
With a dream, a vision, a purpose, a mission, a job, a practice, a business, and enterprise in exactly the way I’m just describing. So I walk that technician through that process and they first have to describe, what’s your dream? They don’t have one. I want to make a lot of money. That’s not a dream. The dream is the great result you’re going to produce, not for you, but for them. For whom? The crucial question. So, who are you going to transform? To transform the state of chiropractic, to transform the state of accountancy, to transform this. Until that happens, nothing else is going to happen. So we’ve got to awaken the entrepreneur within every technician starting a small company. And that’s the process through which I do it. And it’s a struggle, Steve. You’ve got to stay with the struggle. You don’t get beyond the dream until you’ve got a dream. And until you’ve got a dream, it’s a waste of time. I want to become my own boss. That’s not dream. I want to make a lot of money. That’s not a dream. That’s dreams about them, not about you. Dreams about it, not about me. In every great entrepreneur’s case, not one of them started what they started to make a lot of money. Not one, not ever.
I love it. I mean, I thought I could explain this much better than most people, but actually you are explaining it a lot better than I can. And you’re kind of connecting the dots for me as well, even though I’m supposed to be doing that. So that is pretty cool. And I never thought about the technician actually not having a dream. I thought the problem was that they couldn’t make the dream attractive to people around them so that they also connect to it. They had it, but they could not proselytize it properly. I thought that was the problem. But what you are putting the spotlight on is that they actually don’t have it articulated for themselves, so they are not able to generate the passion in order to make it happen. Is this what you’re saying?
No, you’re very accurate. You understand the vast majority of startups have started to get rid of the boss. They’re gonna go out and do it on their own. It’s going out and doing it on their own. My book, I don’t know if you’ve ever read it, Making It On Your Own in America, or wherever you happen to live, Is A Journey Toward Radical Self-Employment. So you understand what they do. You see them doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it. They’ve gotten rid of the boss. They’ve become their own boss. And now they’re working for a boss, which is the business they created. And they’re working for a lunatic. So I’ve said this again and again and again and again, very crucial to understand we have to awaken the entrepreneur within them. And it’s a tough thing to do. It’s not easy to do. Anybody who tells you it is easy to do has never really done it. And that’s why I asked the question, so what is an entrepreneur? People answer, well, they’re people who started a business.
No, that’s only a little, little, little piece of it. So that’s where I came up with the eight discrete personalities of an entrepreneur. The dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, the leader, the designer, the builder, the launcher, the grower. Until we awaken the dreamer, the thinker, the storyteller, etc., etc., within the owner of a small company, until we do that, it’s just more of the same. So how do we do that? I walk them through the Dreaming Room. I have a dream, I have a vision, I have a purpose, I have a mission. And I call that Dreaming Room One and Dreaming Room Two. Dreaming Room One is to discover their dream, their vision, their purpose, and mission. Dreaming Room Two is to discover their job, their practice, their business, their enterprise. Dreaming Room One creates the platform upon which we’re gonna design, build, launch, and grow.
Dreaming Room Two. So it’s a process, and it’s a magical process. Because as I walk people through that, Steve, just huge stuff happens. I mean, it’s just huge. They say, what in the world happened? They find themselves in a completely new way. And it’s extraordinary. By the way, I’m doing a webinar on the 25th this week, introducing people to the Dreaming Room. And then I’m enrolling them, several of them, in the Dreaming Room, which I start, I believe it’s on May 2nd. Go to the webinar. I’ll have Amethyst send you a link to it. And then if you care to, I invite you to join me in the Dreaming Room. I’ll do that pro bono. You’re not going to have to spend the $10,000 to do it.
Okay. Yeah. I would love to.
And when you do it, you’re going to have a direct experience of what I’m talking about. And once you have that direct experience, Steve, I’ll then invite you to become a Dreaming Room leader.
Okay.
And should that occur, it’ll be magical.
Well, I’m definitely interested. Friday is going to be tough. I don’t know what time is your… but we can talk offline about this. But I’m definitely interested. I want to learn more. And I love the idea of awakening the entrepreneur. I’m afraid some of my clients are still asleep. I have to awaken them. Maybe I’m still asleep. So I have to awaken these clients.
Well, you understand it. You’re a genius. I’ve read your stuff. You’re a genius on the mechanics of it all. You write brilliant stuff.
Thank you.
Unfortunately, your brilliant stuff, I say this in the kindest of ways, your brilliant stuff leads the one I speak to behind. So the question becomes, how do I do it in a way that doesn’t leave them behind? Who? The smallest of the small. You’re too smart for the vast majority of them. You’re just too damn smart for the majority of them.
Maybe for my own.
And so, it becomes stupid.
Anyhow, well, I’m definitely interested and definitely dive into it. But for the moment, we are still recording this. So I’d like to ask you a couple of personal questions. Is that okay? Because you’re an entrepreneur, you started several businesses, you’re currently running the Michael E. Gerber Companies. So as an entrepreneur, what has been your greatest disappointment in business and how did you bounce back from it?
My greatest disappointment is in myself. My greatest disappointment is the fact that I don’t enjoy operating a company. I don’t enjoy the work of it. I enjoy creating. Over the past decade, that’s all I’ve done. We have grown our company, but I haven’t been interested in growing our company. I’ve been in love with the creation of entrepreneurial dedication. So over the past decade, we’ve published now 24 new books, what I call vertical market books. The E-Myth Chiropractor, the E-Myth Accountant, the E-Myth, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And doing that with co-authors. So a chiropractor who’s done the E-Myth and had a practice, but it never created a true business of it. And so we’ve published now these 24 books. I write a chapter on people, they write a chapter on people. I write a chapter on money, they write a chapter, et cetera, et cetera. My chapters are the same in every one of those books. Their chapters are vertically centric. So they write a book on chiropractic about people, about money, etc., etc. There are 199 vertical markets we’ve identified.
So I want you to imagine 199 vertical market e-myth books. That’s the objective. Now, obviously, I’m going on 89, so the question becomes, so Gerber, how are you going to create all those books? With AI. So the future doesn’t require a co-author. AI becomes the co-author. Because now we’ve created the perfect model for doing it.
We can now create, utilizing artificial intelligence, human intelligence, and business format intelligence to create a completely unique world of vertical market books that speak to this process that I'm talking about.
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So that’s one component of Michael E. Gerber companies. Because everybody says, yes, but my business is different. You know that. I’m sure you’ve had that. Yes, Steve, but my business is different. Or Steve says, yeah, I understand but the system works, no matter what kind of business you’re in. I know Steve is going to say that. Everything you created is applicable to every kind of business on the planet. Everything I’ve created is applicable to every kind of business on the planet. We’ve proven it. Chiropractor, accountancy, on and on and on and on and on. Every single one of them have applied the E-myth. The E-myth and the way we’ve created it in exactly the way we’ve created it. And it works every single time. So that’s one piece of Michael E. Gerber Companies. The second piece you wrote about Radical You. Radical You is a five-year school for entrepreneurship. So it’s an entrepreneurial development school. 52 weeks a year for five years. So I have completed the first four years of 52 weeks each year of the content for walking somebody through the process from the very beginning to the very end. That’s the second component of Michael E. Gerber Companies. So you get my point.
Yeah, that’s wonderful. And then you have the Dreaming Room that’s also part of the Michael E. Gerber Companies. So you’ve got the Dreaming Room as part of it. So that’s amazing. So that takes the E-Myth concept to the next level because you verticalize it, you actually put into practice how to awaken the eight personalities of the entrepreneur, and then you train them in a five-year school. I wonder if it’s 52 weeks a year, why don’t you just give them a few weeks off and then maybe the fifth year will write itself?
It’s a great question.
Because entrepreneurs need to take at least eight to 10 weeks of vacation every year.
Of course, of course. Take your time off.
So tell me, Michael, I mean, you’ve been doing this for, I don’t even dare, 60 years probably. How do you keep young? How do you keep passionate? How do you not lose your zest and your love of life? What keeps you going?
It’s spoken to when I talk about the soul of it. So understand the soul of a creation, this continuous creation, I’d love to create. I love to create. It lives within me. It is my soul. It’s the spirit that calls me to the process. And so mechanics die without the spirit, without the soul. So I don’t focus on the mechanics, I focus on the creation of it. And that creation of it keeps me, I won’t say young because obviously I’m not young, but my spirit is young. As young as it was the very first day I started this. So that’s how. And essentially saying when I engage someone in the dreaming world, no matter what their age, it happens to them as well. And as it happens, and it doesn’t happen immediately, although it does happen with some of them immediately. As it happens, something miraculous occurs. And they write about that. They speak about that. Something miraculous occurs. And it’s something miraculous that touches my soul, my spirit, that keeps me, my spirit, young. Because as I experience that with another, it rejuvenates that within me and it will do this very same thing with you.
Okay, I need some rejuvenation for sure.
Now you’re very young. How old are you?
I’m 58.
Just a kid.
Yeah, you could be my father. You are my father in many ways, actually.
Where are you from?
I’m from Hungary.
And how long have you been in the United States?
13 years.
And why did you come to the United States?
Well, because I had my dreams, my entrepreneurial dreams and I saw a ceiling to it there and I thought that I was still 45, I was still young enough to make a new start, and to do it in a world which doesn’t have a ceiling. And that’s why I came.
Wonderful. And how’s that worked out for you?
Touch wood. So far, it’s working. It’s not perfect, as you know. No business is perfect. My business is not perfect either. So it’s plenty of work to be done left. So with this, let me ask you the final question, Michael. What do you think is the most important question for an entrepreneur that they should be asking themselves?
Why are you doing this? And what I discover is mostly I get is stupid answers. And so I have to press it and press it and press it and press it. And as I press it and press it and press it, something real happens. And something real is I don’t know. And then the point is, let’s find out. And then I engage them in the process. If you had a dream, what would it be? If you had a great result, passionately determined to produce, what would it be? And as I begin that process, Steve, something happens.
Yeah, that’s huge. The “Why” is huge. I agree with you. That’s the biggest one. Well, that’s awesome. So your “Why” is to transform small business and the economy and the world through it or something like that. I’m paraphrasing. And you’re still at it, which is fantastic. And you have developed new programs, the Dreaming Room, the transformation, and the Vertical Books. So if you’d like to learn more, well, I assume you guys have all read the E-Myth Revisited. If you haven’t, then go to Amazon right now as soon as the podcast is over and download it and read it. This is essential stuff. And then check out the Dreaming Room. So on the 25th, there’s going to be a webinar. Now, I don’t know if you can come out with this podcast before the 25th. I will try, but probably it’s going to be really hard to do. So is there another date where people can kind of get this concept of the Dreaming Room?
It’ll be recorded, Steve.
It’s going to be recorded, okay.
Yeah, so I’ll have Amethyst send you the recording.
Okay.
At the same time, I’m going to have her send you the link, and you can publish the link for all of your listeners for our webinar on the 25th, okay?
Wonderful. So please check out the show notes to this episode for the link, and you can watch by that time. It’s gonna be a recorded webinar. Do check it out and you can reach out to Michael. This is how I did it. I reached out through LinkedIn. He’s on LinkedIn. You cannot miss his white hat there. Michael, thank you very much for doing all of that, for starting the movement, Working On Your Business. Now, 100 million entrepreneurs are working on the business, trying to make it better. And now we have to all start dreaming about our business as well.
My delight, Steve, thank you.
Thank you, Michael. And thanks for listening. Don’t forget to like and review us and follow us because now we have Michael Gerber and who knows where we’ll end up. Thanks for coming and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Michael’s LinkedIn * Michael’s website * Michael’s Dreaming Room
https://youtu.be/rRK1UIE-9nQNick Warner, seasoned business coach and host of the Together at the Top podcast, is on a mission to help leaders and emerging professionals align their values, careers, and impact.
We explore Nick’s Managing Up Framework:
What’s in it for them, Preferred Cadence, Preferred Channel, Prioritize, and Make It Convenient.
Nick explains how to adapt communication to busy executives, navigate different leadership styles, and influence without authority. He also shares the mindset shifts needed to coach effectively, why humility is non-negotiable, and how soulful leadership fuels high-performing teams.
—Learn How to Manage Up from Nick WarnerGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and I’m excited to have today on the show, Nick Warner, who is a seasoned business coach with over 4,000 sessions under his belt, but he also was the managing partner of a lobbying firm in California for a couple of decades before that. So, lots to bring to the show. Nick, welcome.
Thank you for having me, Steve. I really appreciate it.
Well, it’s great to have you. You’ve got some good information and a great career and lots of experience. So let’s dive in. My favorite question for guests is, what is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your practice?
Yeah, great question. My personal “Why,” I hope this doesn’t sound cheesy, this is a second career for me, is I really want to help people. I want to help them find the highest level of confluence of what they want in their life, in their career or their companies. So I’m really motivated by helping. I’m not sure I knew that until I got a little bit further into it and it started to like affect my soul, a more scientific way to say it. You realize it’s their families and their stress environments and their kids’ college accounts, and you may end up mattering in their lives. So, I really enjoy helping people in that regard.
Yeah, I mean, coaching is a high leverage activity. You touch people who are multipliers, especially when you’re in business coaching and that’s a pretty awesome aspect of it. So if I multiply the 4,000 with the number of people touched, it’s probably more like 50,000 something.
It’s funny you say it that way because when I was an employer directly, I would think about my staff of 25 times and I’m making this up a little bit like an average family of four and I would think of it in my sphere of responsibility was 100 people. So if I have an agency, I have a public sector agency where there’s a thousand people that working in it, there’s four, they have different titles, but essentially vice presidents. And I urge them to think about 4,000 people. There are very small number of us in this room and we can really impact people’s lives. So yeah, I use that same similar multiplier when I think about it.
Yeah. That’s pretty awesome. You’re probably undercharging for your coaching, talking about this.
I doubt it. Some might disagree.
All right, so let’s switch gears and let’s talk about your framework, because that’s also pretty interesting. You developed a framework about something that a lot of us struggle with. I no longer struggle with it because I don’t have anyone that I report to other than my wife. But I know that when I was working for big companies, it was very hard to manage up to get your bosses to actually not complicate your life and not want to second guess you and to exert your influence when you didn’t have authority for it. So what is that process? What is that framework, The Managing Up Framework? Can you walk us through please?
Yeah, for sure. I want to thank you too, because when you asked me the question about, do I have a framework? I said, no. And then you asked me to just talk about it. And when you played it back to me, I realized I do have a framework. So, I appreciate it. You actually really helped me a lot in my conversation. I hadn’t thought about it in my context ‘til you were a mirror and played it back to me. So yeah, I do. And every situation is different. I think you know that as a coach and my guess is your listeners probably already accept that as a premise that no two things are the same. No two human beings are the same. And all of this should be taken in style to taste and if it’s helpful, take it as a framework, but I’ll use the book, What Got You Here Won’t Get You There as a start to when you get to a certain level and mostly you’re working with I’m going to guess emerging leaders and leaders, and I’m working with emerging leaders and leaders.
The people that you’re talking to in your company managing up are very successful people and what they’ve done has worked for them. And the reasons they say no or intransigent or don’t listen is because they’ve been successful. And so you have to find different ways to reach them. And it’s not a game. They’re not even mechanisms. I guess it’s psychology or sociology perhaps. But what’s in it for them? Why do they care? Why should they care? Money is not an issue for them. They already make money. A reach to the company isn’t an issue. They already have the reach. Like what is it for that person you’re trying to move? So I think what’s in it for them, if I have to have a tagline for step one of the methodology would be, why does the person I’m trying to influence care and I need to craft a message to that.
Yeah. It’s like any marketing. You need to talk to the audience and find their buttons.
Let me give you an example of that. We’re trying to get a top boss to stopping a micromanager and to stop being a supersized individual contributor. And his version to me is this is my brilliance. This is what I do. Like GSD, pardon the parlance, getting shit done is what I do. I’m amazing at it. And his staff wasn’t able to, I wasn’t able to get him off the spot because the reality is he does add a lot of value there. But where we got progress in the discussion was, with him, it was, he’s very proud of his team. And so we had a very soulful conversation in my office, not on his, by the way, to talk about we’re stunting growth. Like no one’s saying you’re not good at this, but you’re stunting growth. Think about where you were at this time and to get him to think about his team and that people you love, you’re hurting them, you’re stunting them. And so he hadn’t taken that. He hadn’t thought about it from that perspective.
It's real and that you really have to figure out what the person cares about, what could move them. But number one is what's in it for them.
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Okay. So when you know that, what do you do then?
Well, I think preferred cadence is important if you’re managing up. Let’s say you’re briefing your boss. I deal with busy a lot in terms of trying to account for busy for increasingly successful people ascending. And you run into, I brought 10 things to Steve and honestly the meeting went 15 minutes. He was busy, he was distracted. And so if it’s working fine, keep doing that. But a lot of times it’s not. And that’s how it ends up centrally in our coaching session. I’ll ask probative questions around how often are you briefing Steve? Well, I do it once a week. How many things are on your list? 15. How many do you normally get to like seven, but thin, we don’t cover them well at all. What if you, for an example, again, back to preferred cadence, how often, what if you met with him every day for 15 minutes and only brought him two things?
That alone doesn’t crack the code. There’s different variations of that theme. It could be the boss doesn’t like it that quick, that he or she wants a thorough briefing on one, or I want to cover 15, like you’ll give it to me. But there’s also, boss, I really need you to stop. I need your feet to stop, and I need you to look at me, and I’m gonna stand in front of the door until you listen to me. But cadence can really help improve digestibility based on how your boss needs it and how the people above you need it.
Be flexible on how often you give it to them, how much you give them at that.
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Yeah, I personally experienced this because my staff, they produce social media posts and articles and videos and sometimes they send me 10 at a time and I look at my Slack, I say, okay, I’m not touching this because I’m not going to get through it. So I keep pushing it back and I ask them only send me one or two and then I can quickly look at it and then it’s done. Don’t send it 10 at the same time.
Yeah.
It’s the wrong cadence for me.
James Clear in Atomic Habits, which is a really good book, talks about the enemy of priority one and two is three, four, five, six through 10. And so I think that’s so true. And so, in that briefing space, it might be too much for your boss to digest. Let’s pare it down. It’s not always that it could be variations of that. Like I said before, but let’s start messing around with cadence. How often do we meet? How much we brief on? Do we send Steve 10 things or one thing? Listen to them. Hopefully I’m not getting the too much. Well, let’s talk about preferred channel. So, that’s where I was going with that is, I’m not an email person. If you say that to me, we’re going to have discussions.
I don’t think that’s an option, but the reality is some people respond better on text than email, or you can get to the top of their list on text or they’re phone people, or my 21 year old daughter said, anybody knows they want to get ahold of me is going to FaceTime me, which I did not know by the way, because apparently only old people leave voicemails. I didn’t know that. So I’m listening really carefully, or watching carefully for what’s going better in terms of how often I brief you, how much I brief and then what’s your channel. Is it a memo? Is it a verbal conference call or a video call? Is it some combination? More times than not if I’m managing up, I need to not bend to their will, but I need to adjust to their style. So I’ve sent them email after email, Steve, they don’t get back to me. Okay, how do you do when you walk in his or her office? Fine. Then let’s do that ‘cause we got to make something stick.
It is interesting. It’s also generational thing. I had someone on my podcast who said that the silent generation was all about, I think they were all about in person and then the boomers were the phone and the Gen Xs were about email. And then the Gen Z is about, I don’t know, text. And now they have this messaging app for the Gen Alpha. So it’s fascinating.
I have all the leverage I need in this world in terms of I don’t really need your money. Like I like the work and I want the money, but I don’t need it. I’m usually the coach or the boss. But that said, he or she who has the most ways to communicate wins. If you can’t get a hold of me, you’re not trying because I will adjust however you communicate. I will adjust to that because I want smoother communication, better flow. You don’t have to adjust to me. I’ll adjust to you because I want my life to go better.
Okay, I’m making a note of this. The one who has the most weight to communicate wins. That’s huge. Okay, so let’s go on. You have figured out their message that they need to hear, their preferred cadence, the preferred channel. What’s that?
Well, we talked a little bit about this, how to prioritize what to bring to the boss. I mentioned before as a primer, oftentimes, the enemy of priority one and two, which are the really big things you need to get done this week or today. The enemy is three, four, five and six and down the list. So let’s prioritize what we bring to our boss. We’re storytelling, too. Stories that, like for example, even a paper in college where you have like way too many topics in there, not sure what the takeaway is. What I’d like you to think about is when I walk out of that briefing, what did they take away? It’s less important what I think I said and way more important what stuck with my boss. So prioritize what you bring to them. And again, to the previous points, how and when, how much and when, prioritize.
Yeah. And busy bosses, they have so many decisions to make every day and they burn out. They hit decision fatigue probably by lunchtime. So the first thing you want to do then is give them 10 things to think about. They probably are going to shut down and not think about even one.
The irony is a lot of times when you’re talking to your client, I guess I’m asking you if this is true for you. For me, it’s true where they’re telling me what they did and I’m like, it’s pretty good. That should have worked. And we presented to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury and they go, that was perfect. You did a great job. Like how’d it go? It didn’t work at all. Like, okay, let’s regather. We got to figure out what’s going to stick because like going away and not getting this done is not a thing. So, making it more convenient is probably the fifth part of the model, if you will, or the mechanism is. In the ideal, and I’d say most cases inside the norm where you don’t have aberrant behavior from people above you, where it’s like you just cannot get to them at all. Normally it’s well-intentioned people that just don’t have time and you’re battling real busy. Make it convenient.
Can you check with somebody’s executive assistant to find out when they’re walking from one side of the building to the other and walk with them and brief them? I have walked with many, a boss with a folder in my hand under my arm, and briefed them, and got exactly the answer I needed. I mean, I’m being mostly facetious, a little bit serious about this, but not in a stalking way. But you can wait for your boss to come back to the parking lot and walk back to the office with him or her. You can potentially find out where they eat, what their path is again, check with their executive assistant to find out when they might have a free five minutes. I don’t hate an Uber ride. I mean, you’re not going to go from Los Angeles to San Francisco with your boss, but many times they’re going cross town. There’s no reason in the world, say for $25 back for an Uber or Lyft ride, you can’t ride in the car with your boss. So if you can make it convenient when you really have to have it, because what I don’t want to hear is I can’t get to my boss. Okay. It’s 10 different ways to get your boss in front of us. And we’ll figure this out.
Yeah. It’s a good point.
I’ve been as far, this is a little bit extreme. I’ve said this before. I said in my previous career, it didn’t go amazing when a governor staffer said to me, I can’t get to the governor’s chief of staff. I know I promised your guys this thing in the meeting, but I can’t get to her. And 40-something year old little fierier version of me said something like, are you kidding me? Do you know where she eats? Do you know where she works out? Do you know what flight she’s on? Do you know what parking spot? Do you know where her next meeting is? Stop telling me you can’t, you can. I don’t give it the same way now, but I feel the same way.
Yeah, you have to want it bad enough and then you figure it out.
Well said.
Okay, so that’s a great way to manage up. So figure out what is their favorite radio station, WIFM, what is their preferred cadence, whether it’s once a day, once a week, once a month, how do you apportion the material for decisions? Time of day, possibly also.
Favorite channel.
Is it phone? Is it Zoom? Is it in person? Is it text? Whatever it is, and then prioritize. So you can’t just give them all the stuff. You have to make the decisions that you can on your own and forget other people to make smaller decisions and bring the big one and then make it convenient. This is huge. Yeah, be creative, make it convenient. That’s awesome. So let’s talk about a little bit your experience as the managing partner of this lobby firm. What did you find, as a leader, the most important thing for a great employer to do?
Yeah, I don’t think it’s endemic to lobbying or specific to lobbying. I just happened to be running a lobbying and at times, a law firm. Also, I think it translates to most businesses, frankly, I just happened to be in that business, like I said. I think it’s in the soulful space. Forgive me if I’ve said that twice already. I think being a great human is a probably 90% of the way toward being a great employer. The rest is laws and I’m in California and we got a lot of them. So there’s definitely skill to go with a soulful and the caring, but I think that’s the first thing. I mean, I’ve said before in a staff meeting, I’m like, swearing and vulgarity is definitely not my thing, especially in the workspace, but you guys, it’s okay to give a shit. It’s okay to care about your clients. Okay to care about each other.
My favorite part, and I think this is what migrated me toward being a business coach, is I love being centrally involved with people's careers and especially when they come to get it and they're motivated and they're dedicating themselves to…
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, you get hurt in that space too, as an employer. I mean, there’s definitely pain when people won’t step up and I haven’t fired a lot of people. I’ve probably been involved in a little bit more of that as a coach giving advice than I have in my own firm where I had the ability to handpick people, especially as we got more successful. So there’s pain in this space. It doesn’t always work out, but I think the key to being a really good employer, especially even if it’s big business, because when you’re in big business, unless you’re the CEO or the C-suite, you’re working on discrete teams with people you know, some of who you’ve hand chosen. So you have 6,000 employees or 60,000 employees in your company, but your team’s not bad. It’s okay to give a shit and care a lot and invest and not manage all your time. Again, forgive my vulgarity. It’s mostly just for the phrase, but I think a little bit of caring and a little bit of humanity goes a really long way. And there’s a lot of good product out there. I mean, what does Good to Great say? The who before the what. The people before the product. For me, that’s the most important thing is an employer, first and foremost, to your question.
How much of that can be learned? So, some of us have higher emotional intelligence than others. To what degree is it nature versus nurture?
Well, the nurture is normally mentoring because what I hear is, you mentioned the generational thing. I actually hear it exactly that way. It’s like, well, coming up, they didn’t explain the “Why” to me. They just told me, Steve, can you just do it? Because I said so. And you’re like, yes, sir. Yes, ma’am. I’ll do it. Mostly yes, sir. Back then, I’ll do it. Did it work? Yeah, but to 60% fidelity, it’s amazing if you could explain to your really smart employees, even if it’s no, and you’re overruling them, if you could explain it to them, I think that would be amazing. I think things like that are really, really helpful. And yeah, in my head, in terms of old school versus new school, I mean, you can tell people if you want, or we can inform people. People say really smart things too, especially different generations and benefiting from diversity as an example.
Yeah, but I mean, let’s say if I’m a leader and I’m high IQ, but maybe lower than average EQ, what can I do to improve my EQ?
Yeah. To me, it’s in the space of coaching motivation and coaching drive. It’s really hard to do that, but I’ve seen some success. I mean, I’d say I have more limited success when they’re lower IQ and dug in, but when they’re open-minded and humility opens up like so many things, when you get them to understand the impact you can have on somebody’s life, that by doing that you’re taking somebody’s best opportunity, that you’re the mentor now. The power of your voice, like what a compliment explained means to somebody. It’s one thing to say you did really well, but if you say this is what you did that really helped me and the team.
You can at times get people to understand this is the highest, best use of your skillset.
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This whole thing like, oh, I don’t wanna manage people. What if you thought about it a different way? And also you should be less busy. Busy has been the biggest thing that’s been dogging you. We should be able to get you less busy because we need you in your genius, we need you to delegate. It’s hard to reach people back to what’s in it for them? What’s in it for me? It’s hard to reach people, but I have had some success in that category with medium acuity folks, if you will, only ‘cause I think most of the higher EQ employers get that on their own, just through the journey and through their humanity, but I’ve had some flips of the switch of like, okay, I haven’t thought about it that way. I’ve been thinking money, money, money, company, company, company, brand, brand, brand. I haven’t been thinking about the gym and like what they say at the dinner table and like how I can help them and their family. I’m like, I’ve never been in this position. It’s not the same thing. I mean, I’d say there’s some level of success and when they show up, one thing I know coming from politics and big business, now to being a business coach, is one of my requisites is I will not have no know-it-alls and no a-holes. I’m not doing that anymore. I’ve already done that in politics and big business. You know who never calls a business coach? Know-it-alls and a-holes. So people that show up are motivated, humble professionals. So we have a shot. Like you want to have a shot at that point because they’re showing up for some reason. If you knew it all, you wouldn’t talk to Steve or me, but it’s not my favorite. It’s not my favorite when, like, I heard a phrase this morning from a sales director who told me that his boss uses a phrase of I’m going to bring in the hammer and he uses it a lot. And I go, what does that mean? He goes, fire people. He goes, what do you think of that? I go, I freaking hate it. I hate it. Does it work? He goes, a couple of folks, maybe arguably, but the other ones are like either have a half foot out the door, they’re kind of cowering. I go, does it embarrass you as a director? He goes, It totally does.
Yeah. Driven people are not motivated by the hammer.
I mean, really rare.
A lot of people want to inspire the ones that are A-players that are really coachable and who have the drive and they just need a little bit of love. So that’s a good segue to my next question. How would you describe your coaching philosophy?
I think it’s an opportunity, it’s a place, it creates a safe forum for mostly successful, humble, driven people to discuss the things that are most salient and poignant to them in a safe environment. Everything I do individually is governed by confidentiality. If I’m in a group, I ask for sanctity of the conversations. I mean, I would like confidentiality, but if there’s 25 people in a room, you can’t always 100% get it, so I ask for sanctity. But I want them to understand I deal in trust, and I’m here because I care. I rarely take on a project or a person that I don’t think is really trying to do better, and that lights me up, so it changes my posture. Having a safe place for people to discuss the matters that are most important to them at work and a lot of times it gets into personal because it’s stress and it’s kids and it’s money and things like that.
Part of my philosophy is also humility. I’m hunting for it. I’m also hunting for lack of it because when I get humility, I’m humble too. I say things all the time like I never thought about it that way. I say sorry too. I said sorry last week. Somebody cancelled on me right as I was sitting down in my chair and I’d rushed to get there and it had happened before. And when the person’s assistant called me and told me the reason, I kinda didn’t listen. I went me first and I was like, okay, I appreciate it, but it’s the third time, I’m probably gonna charge a cancellation fee. And then about an hour later, I started getting those beads of sweat on my forehead and I was like, I just realized what she was telling me. It was an emergency.
And I called back and I freaking apologized and she was like, Mr. Warner. I’m like, I was trying to figure out what I could have done different. I’m like, you couldn’t have done anything different. You called me respectfully and it wasn’t horrible. I didn’t like lose my temper, but I just said, I apologize. I really do. And she said, I really appreciate it. It really means a lot. I want to be around humble, successful people. You do not have it all figured out, so I want it to be a safe forum.
Humility matters a lot. And then I think, also, part of the philosophy is, if you’re working with really smart people, it’s rarely,
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oh, you don’t know what you’re doing. Let me and Steve tell you. That’s not what it is. It’s normally the value of my fresh experienced informed eyes and ears, emphasis on the fresh. So we partner, like tell it to me. I haven’t heard it. Let me hear it. Let me hear it next month too. ‘Cause I pick up things, like an example of fresh eyes and philosophy is an executive telling me the board is asking us question over question over question about all these budget asks we’re making. And the year before, they hadn’t asked any questions and he got exactly zero. This year they had a lot of questions and he was going for big money and I said, aren’t they saying yes, not no? And I don’t normally say things that completely flip the conversation on its head, but he goes, they are. That was the value of fresh eyes. And that is part of the philosophy is I do not take the position that my clients are in deficit. A lot of times they’re not. I’m expensive too. And sometimes they’ll hire me for deficit when like you want me to assess and get fresh eyes. But mostly it’s like, hey, I’m here to see if I could see something in nooks and crannies. And sometimes I do. So I think that’s part of the philosophy as well.
Love it. Talking about questions, what do you think is the most important question an entrepreneur should ask themselves?
I’m stealing from Good to Great again, because I love it. I mean, it’s probably proven to be one of the best business books, but what’s your genius? They describe it as your hedgehog, which to me is like a little bit of a weird word. I have to look it up on Google what hedgehog means, but the confluence of what you love the most and what you think are uniquely best out in the world. What is that? Can you sell that? Can you make that stick and then go do it? But I think that’s the question you need to ask yourself is, do I do something better or best and do I happen to love it? ‘Cause if you do, it’s game on.
Yeah. That’s powerful. When you love it, it delivers value and makes money. If you can do all three, then you got it made, basically.
Yeah. I think the second time I’ve quoted by 21-year-old daughter, Alex, but she was saying to me, she’s a junior at University of Tennessee. She’s an advertising major. And she’s like, I don’t know about sales. I don’t know if I want to like sit around and call people all day on something. I was like, you ever felt really strongly about something and felt like you really had something to offer? And she had one job actually at a boutique that she really liked and she won a bunch of sales contests because they had really cool stuff to sell. I love selling my coaching products. I love it. I’m passionate about it. I’m good at matching up with people who are like, Oh, I actually need that. That’d be amazing. Yeah. I mean, I think if you can get in that spot where you love somebody, you know damn well, you’re really good at it. You got a real shot as an entrepreneur.
Yeah. I often talk about this. I read a quote many years ago from an author who talked about sales and the mindset of sales. And he said that I can sell someone on a product or service to the degree that I believe in it. If I’m a 100% sure that it’s going to help that person, then I can close the sale at 100% certainty. And I find this to also be true and maybe not scientifically, but definitely experientially.
Yeah. It’s not for you, you’re the host. I’m not the host, but I think your question, but I am a geek of a coach and we’re having this amazing coaches quarter. You could tweak that question just as easily for sales because I would have the same answer. What does anybody go into sales with? What’s the most important question somebody in sales should ask? I might have the same answer. What is your company best at? And then I’d probably take the way you said it from the author, which is like, what do you really feel strongly about? And you know they’re going to love it. Like go sell that. You don’t have to own the company. Go sell that. What do you see? How good you are at it?
Yeah, that’s a great thought to have. That’s awesome. So if people would like to learn more about your philosophy, how you coach, maybe reach out to you, get in touch with you, they have a question. Where can they find you?
That’s nice of you. Thank you very much. My website is nickwarnerconsulting.com. Warner like Warner brothers. And my podcast is called Together at the Top. And I interview people from all different industries. And I’m trying to actually focus on different stage of career also, and not just interview people at the top, but interview, I mean, some of my clients in particular, like 35, 42, and I’m like, wow, they’re not running things yet, but they are really making things happen in a way that I want to put voice to. So I’m getting more and more excited about bringing in some, it’s not always younger, but like middle stage career, but really killing it for middle stage career, hearing their thoughts.
So you like to work with people who are already successful and they have the hunger to take it to the next level?
I like motivated professionals at all levels. I mean, I’m not inexpensive, so that probably tilts me toward the middle and up, but I make room for sometimes the people don’t know their lower fee, I just send them a lower bill. And like some of these young people light me up, Steve, honestly, and I want what they have. I want to understand their pressures or technology, their verbiage or phrases, how they think about things. Like I read in the Wall Street Journal, I read trends, but I want to know it from them too.
So I want to be of service to people. So I definitely leave space in my calendar and my body for helping people that earn in. Like there was a kid at the gym, they hired him for sales and I didn’t mean to notice him, but like from the first day, he always had his tie and then really quickly he was in a corner, he was in an office selling and I like slowly but surely kind of like put myself in front of him and one day he goes, man, I would love to hire you someday. I go, let’s start next week because I can’t afford you. I go, I assure you, you can’t. And we’ve been working on it for about three years and he lights me up. I don’t know, he pays me some nominal amount, but it’s not nominal to him. I work with emerging leaders and leaders up to the CEO level, but I also love to work, not down. It’s not down in humanity, just maybe down in price and age.
Okay, awesome. So if you listen to this, you just learned that you get a chance if you’re a kind of person that inspires Nick, then reach out to him and he might take you on as an apprentice. So, Nick, thank you for coming and sharing your wisdom. So, Nick Warner, a seasoned business coach, former entrepreneur and managing partner of a big lobby firm, successful lobby firm. If you enjoyed this show, then don’t forget to hit subscribe on YouTube and follow us on LinkedIn and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you are. And stay tuned because every week we get a great entrepreneur or subject matter expert who shares their special framework with us. So thanks for coming and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Nick’s website * Nick’s LinkedIn
https://youtu.be/rADiqnrhgrkAdam Coughlin, Co-founder, CMO, and Managing Partner of York IE, is on a mission to help startups beat the odds by building strong, capital-efficient brands that resonate with their markets.
We explore Adam’s Drumbeat Marketing Framework:
Messaging & Positioning, Develop Unique Point of View, Execution, and Scorekeeping.
He shares why brand consistency beats shiny-object syndrome, how vertical AI is redefining SaaS, and why startups need to balance storytelling with measurable impact. Adam also explains how to foster entrepreneurial thinking early and why founders must lead with a deep sense of purpose.
—Run Through Walls with Adam CoughlinGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Adam Coughlin, co-founder, CMO and managing partner of York IE, where he works with startups on foundational messaging, content, communications, go-to-market strategy, website and digital marketing, revenue operations, and corporate storytelling. Welcome to the show, Adam.
Yeah, thanks for having me, Steve. Appreciate it.
Yeah, you guys are really a full-service shop. You do almost everything. So tell me, how are you guys unique, and what is it that makes you a superior solution for people?
Yeah, absolutely. So the founding team of York IE, we all work together at a company called Dine here in New Hampshire that did the domain name system. And we built that company to about a hundred million of annual recurring revenue, got acquired by Oracle. While we were inside of Oracle, we kind of reflected on the growth journey that we took at Dine. And we felt that a lot of the legacy institutions that we turned to for growth help, whether that was our investors, our advisors, our vendors, they were operating out of antiquated models so that were really good for them, but not necessarily for us as the operators. And so that’s what we wanted to disrupt. So in 2019, we launched York IE. We are an advisory and investment firm. So we help technology companies grow. We do that through investing in early stage exclusively B2B software companies. And then because we were operators, we also built a strategic advisory firm that does strategy and execution across the functional areas of R&D, go to market and G&A.
Because we feel like we want to roll up our sleeves and help companies be successful.
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Yeah. So you’re basically investing companies that advise them, help to improve them, and some you just advise them and don’t invest. So it’s a combination.
Combination. Exactly. Right. And I think in addition to the advise, it’s really important to get across that we do the execution because that is where companies need help. Especially early stage companies. A lot of those teams are small, they’re dynamic, they have a good strategy, they just need help and take some things off their plates and we’re there to help them with that.
Sounds great. So that leads to my question. What is your personal “Why” and how are you manifesting it in your business?
Yeah, absolutely. I think this is a great question. And my personal “Why” is I love entrepreneurs. I think that they are both visionary and builders and that they are pursuing their dreams in the effort to create something and build something that makes the world better. And
I think that if they build good companies, then they hire good employees. Good companies have impacts on communities. Good companies build wealth.
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But unfortunately, the numbers are stacked against them. A large majority of startups fail, and I don’t think that needs to be the case. And that’s what I want to try to impact. If we can lower those numbers a little bit and help more founders and entrepreneurs succeed, then we’re going to have a really positive impact on things because of all the good things that come from that success.Yeah, well, I couldn’t resonate more with that. I call it Business Covid or these companies that fail, and I think they can be saved as well with the right structures and processes and approaches. So let’s talk about how you do that because you do a lot of stuff. But one of the things that we talked about was your framework called Drumbeat Marketing and marketing is difficult these days because there’s so much noise out there. So how do you overcome that noise? How do you get your message heard? I like the visual metaphor of drumbeat marketing, you’re beating drums. So how do you beat the drum and how do you get the message resonating?
Yeah, absolutely. So this is actually a concept that I came up with in my previous life when I was a journalist. And so I was covering the New Hampshire primary, and in New Hampshire, we’re the first in the nation primary, so there’s a lot of retail politics that happens. And I talked to Jon Huntsman, who was running for president in 2016, former governor of Utah, former ambassador to China, and he said, in New Hampshire, you have to shake someone’s hand 10 times before they’ll consider voting for you, and then 10 more before they actually do. And that really resonated with me because it’s true about messaging.
Only when you are sick of saying something does it actually begin to resonate with anybody outside of your own walls. We live in a very noisy world. And what happens with a lot of new companies is that they get a little bit of shiny object syndrome. They say this, they say that, they’ve said everything and they’re known for nothing. And so that drumbeat marketing framework is all about discipline. So the first step in that is coming up with your messaging and positioning. We work with a lot of founders that take a product-out approach to their company. They had a problem personally, they solved it, they then assume that everybody else needs that solution. But the reality is that every company is but one player in a larger ecosystem.
We always advocate that you should take a market-in approach. Understand the market landscape, the competitive landscape, and how you fit into that.
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Because the best companies are ascending as their market is expanding. What you don’t want to be is if you do the hard work of actually making a successful company, you don’t want to be on the up as the market you are in is beginning to be commoditized and shrinking. And so taking that market in approach and how you position, and the way that that’s really valuable is that you begin to think about other things besides yourself. You begin to put yourself in the shoes of your customers and your prospects and you begin to think about their perspective, which I think is very valuable for every company.
Love it. So, basically, it’s very easy to fall in love with your product. They say that you should fall in love with your market instead and to conquer this urge of this personal bias about what you think other people will react to test the markets. Okay, so market in, whereas product-out, that makes sense. So what’s the next step?
Yeah, so then once you’ve kind of surveyed the market and the competitive landscape, you’re in a better position of power to see sort of where is the green field space and then what is our unique point of view. And I think that this is very important and it’s only going to become more important in the world of AI and marketing. Like there is just so much noise and the barrier to putting stuff out is basically zero now. And so then what is going to resonate? What is going to have you stand out? It is having a unique point of view that you become known for and you’re doing that because you’re telling that story. And that’s the key word, storytelling. Particularly in technology, we can often think about speeds and feeds, but at the end of the day, no matter what you’re selling, you’re selling to a human being. And since the dawn of man, people have learned and engaged with stories. And so being able to tell that story,
back your story up with data that's unique to you and your company, and it's a story that is unique, not just to yourself, but into the broader market, you're going to be in a really good position to be successful.
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Yeah, I love it. And it’s so easy, especially when you’re a tech entrepreneur, you may have an engineering background, or you may be a very smart mathematician and you want to focus on objective facts rather than stories, kind of have the implication that maybe it’s made up and no, but this is the medium of communication. It is through stories. So you have to articulate the stories. That’s very important. So what’s that? You articulated the story. You have a unique point of view. So that’s kind of a differentiation already through your story. Then what’s next? How do you get this Drumbeat Marketing to be impactful?
Now once you have your story and this point of view that you want to get across, you need to disseminate it through all sorts of integrated marketing channels. People consume information in a variety of different mediums. If you’ve done your marketing research, you kind of have an understanding of where are the watering holes that my prospects are gathering. And then you can tell that story, that point of view, in the way that they’re going to consume it the most. Sometimes, though, you’ll talk to a company and they’ll say, here’s my marketing strategy, and it’s just a bunch of different channels. The biggest hurdle for success for companies is that they have such fragmented audiences. And if you try to reach those audiences in the 10 or 12 different places that they’re gathering and you tell them 10 or 12 different stories, then they have no idea who you are. But if you take that story that we talked about and now you just kind of slice and dice it up in the different ways, whether that be social, whether that be media relations, whether that be ads.
Now that bubbles up and it’s telling one story, you’re just reaching them in different ways. And I think that’s the best way to sort of gain that strength and not introduce confusion to the audience. And to your point that you made, depending on the founder, it’s also about finding the channels that you’re comfortable with. I’ve worked with a lot of deeply technical people. They weren’t necessarily super excited to do a podcast like this, but maybe they’re doing client meetings. And now this is where some of the technology can be helpful. And now you say something really good in a client meeting on a Zoom, you can record that, turn it into a blog post and put it out there in a way that’s more natural to you. So I think it’s getting creative, but it’s about telling that story.
Yeah, and it’s so important. I mean, you see big companies, fortune-ranked companies, when they rebrand, for example, then they make this huge campaign, they plaster the airwaves, and the internet, television, everywhere, they push it at the same time so that people, wherever they are, they’re going to get those impressions from multiple directions and then it’s going to start to create that knock-on effect of breaking through with their consciousness and start to make a mark. And if you just sporadically do it, then it’s just part of the noise and nothing happens.
Absolutely. Like, we’ll talk to a company and they’ll have a big announcement, maybe a new product, maybe a funding announcement. And then I always say, great, we will help you with that launch, but what’s the next announcement? Because you can’t go dark for a period of time. Most of us aren’t launching the iPod or something revolutionary. It’s that consistency. Like a brand isn’t made in a moment. A brand is when you look at a company over three, six, nine, 12 months, and you just see all of this momentum. Success is a giant boulder that needs to be pushed and it’s really hard to get it going. But once it starts building some of that momentum, suddenly it’s going downhill. And now
everybody wants to be a part of pushing it. Nobody wants to be a part at the beginning. And so you just need that consistency and discipline over time to have it actually be meaningful.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, and then how do you iterate? How do you know that you are on the right track and you are doing well or how can you do even better?
The part that I always find when it comes to marketing and storytelling is that it has to be both art and science. And I think it can be very easy for creatives and people like that to like, hey, we’ve done something now we want to go on and create something new and do something else. And it’s like, well, like what is working? And so that is really important to get some of the fundamental dashboards and reporting and things like a HubSpot CRM and things like that so you can kind of track what’s effective. Because like in this world that we live in now where there aren’t infinite resources and everybody has to work smarter because they can’t work any harder, you have to know exactly, the impact of the things that you’re doing.
I say art and science because I don’t believe that you can skew too far to just the data. Because again, this is about human beings and storytelling and, trends and data can put us in the right direction. But at the end of the day, there has to be some things that are being done without immediate giant ROI. And I think that’s one of the things that is a struggle for early stage companies is that you need to thread the needle between sort of brand building, which takes time and lead generation, which is like more immediate because you don’t have an infinite runway and finding that balance where you don’t take too long, but you also don’t become too transactional that you cannibalize your potential of a long brand. And I think that’s where that marriage between the art and science is really important.
Yeah, that’s really tough, especially when you’re burning cash and how do you build the long game and how do you then keep feeding the beast as well? Wow. Okay, so let me take a step back. So this is the framework, like messaging, positioning, that’s Drumbeat Marketing Framework. Messaging and positioning, develop unique point of view, execution and scorekeeping, so that’s great. Now, what you said about the efficiency of, especially startups is really important, and you talk about capital efficient versus growth at all costs approach. So what do you mean by that? And how does one become capital efficient and keep capital efficient growth?
Yeah. So I think that like, again, I’m in the tech space. And so there was a period of time, say a few years ago, where everything was about growth. How do you become the next decacorn? They used to have the triple-triple, double-double model. Like triple your growth, then triple your growth, then triple your growth, then double, then double. And it was growth at all costs. Like HubSpot, for example, when it was growing, it was spending 120% of its revenue on go-to-market sales and marketing. And some of that was driven by sort of the investment profile. Like these funds raised so much money, they invested so much money, they needed that decacorn to get the return. And then it kind of became clear that maybe that’s not the most efficient way to grow a business.
And kind of added to our problem of those models were like, hey, if one company becomes that as an investment firm win, even if the other nine in our portfolio fail. Now I think there’s like this more movement towards what we call like Rule of 40 companies, which is like, hey, can you, between growth and profitability, get to about 40%? So that might be like 20% growth, 20% profitability, 10% growth, 30% profitability. And that is just prioritizing sort of like efficiency and pragmatic growth, which I think at the end of the day, we kind of lost sight of like what a healthy company looks like. And I think healthy companies give the entrepreneur and the founders more option. And I think
when a founder and an entrepreneur feels like they have a lot of options for their company, that's in a really good place to be.
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I love it. This “Rule of 40”, I’ve not heard of it. So basically your profitability and growth should add up to at least 40.
Correct.
And it could be any combination.
Right. And I think that flexibility, as opposed to like we needed to have 200% growth. Well, there’s only so many certain ways. And like, at the end of the day, like these companies that are seeking these giant billion dollar valuations, like have to go achieve them too. And it’s actually very hard to scale at that way with like a very strong foundation. And I think that “Rule of 40” allows you to build. You may get to a point at some point where you’re like, wow, this foundation is good, this business is healthy. There is this opportunity to go for it, but it’s not go for it or fail.
Yeah. Well, I love this balanced approach. So how do people even learn this stuff? Where should entrepreneurs go and learn how to be an entrepreneur? Do you think it could be taught to people?
Yes, I think that, yeah, I’ve talked with this woman named Dr. Julie Gerner. She’s a professional coach and she, she often says that businesses fail most likely from internal factors, not external factors. And being a successful entrepreneur means that you can handle adversity. You can iterate and change in mid-flight. You can handle failure and rejection and learn from them. You are persistent and determined. You can operate in chaos. You can motivate people.
These are skills that I think are best learned through experience and they are obviously the kind of skills that will help you navigate successfully in a business, but they're also the skills that will help you navigate successfully in life.
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And I think that that entrepreneurship mindset, that thinking outside of a box, loving solving problems is a skill set that would be super beneficial in every industry. Like I would love more entrepreneurial thinking inside of education, inside of law, inside of government. And so I do think that it can be taught. And I think that in the world that we’re living in now, that’s so fast-paced and everything’s changing and like what we’re doing today may be irrelevant, not only like 10 years from now, but like six months from now and having to be able to adapt. I think it would behoove everybody to have some of those skills.So if only experience can teach entrepreneurship, resilience, overcoming adversity, then how can you teach it? So can it be reduced to a theoretical formula?
Well, I think that the mindset can be taught. And you’re seeing this. My brother works at the Magnuson Center of Entrepreneurship at Dartmouth College. And we’ve always been in the space and you’ve obviously seen tons of successful college age students starting companies. But now he’s seeing that entrepreneurial mindset that creates your own path and the frameworks to that, how you view things, even just the exposure to that way of thinking, moving down market and high schools are beginning to teach entrepreneurship, beginning to have business pitch competitions, beginning to celebrate some of those things. I always remember a story of an entrepreneur that when he was in grade school, he bought a pack of gum for a dollar and he sold each slice or each piece of gum for a dollar.
So he was making profit on his gum pieces and his teacher yelled at him and told him to stop doing that. But he was laying like, well, if I showed promise in sports or music, I would be celebrated. I would have been nurtured. But when I was showing promise in business, it was kind of rejected. And I think that mindset is changing. And I think that’s just going to help kids have longer period of time for that experience with a little bit less risk, but then also being exposed to sort of the frameworks and some of these things. I have a nephew who’s a freshman in high school and he’s reading Atomic Habits in some of these books that I was never thinking about when I was 15 years old. And I think that’s a great headstart for them.
Yeah. Atomic Habits is great. And I like to think of businesses that they should also be developing atomic habits. Stack their habits and make sure that they implement the process and they make it stick and then build the next one top. Okay, but we digress. Another topic I wanted to ask you about is entrepreneurship. A lot of people talk about AI as being a big engine of entrepreneurship and people can now use AI to create a company with a much lower cost base. So what is your view on this, on how AI can be an engine of entrepreneurship? And also, what is your view, it’s kind of two questions in one, about SaaS companies? Are they being threatened by AI? Is there going to be a disruption there?
Yeah, so I think AI is going to have an impact in entrepreneurship in two ways. I think when it comes to SaaS companies and the products that they build, we have as an investment firm always been very interested in vertical SaaS, taking sort of the software approach to legacy institutions or industries that were ripe for disruption like pest management, or we work with a company that’s involved in the shellfish industry. But now I think vertical AI is gonna be a real big opportunity for companies. So I think of horizontal AI, like the long, large language models of ChatGPT and Google’s Gemini.
They’re very horizontal for certain things. Vertical AI is gonna be when you have very specific data sets that you’re working in that are in very specific industries, and those will end up being the platforms of which decisions in those spaces like law, finance, healthcare are made. So I think companies that are thinking about vertical AI are gonna be super successful. Then I think AI itself is going to help kind of manifest this sort of efficient growth that we talked about. When I worked at Dine, which I talked about earlier, I was part of a 40-person marketing team. Like, I just don’t see that happening because teams are gonna be able to leverage technology and tools to get them a little bit farther. And again, there’s a saying like AI is not going to take your job. Somebody that knows how to leverage AI and get the most out of it is going to. Having those understandings of how to do them. Like we mentioned, you’re doing a Zoom call, you have a great point, it’s recorded, you’ve now taken that transcript, you’ve put it into a Jasper or a ChatGPT, you’ve now made a blog post, you’ve edited it with your own personal touch and now you’ve done that. In the past, that could have been a multi-hour, multi-person process that can now be done pretty instantaneously.
It will impact, you’re seeing AI being leveraged obviously on go-to-market teams, you’re seeing it on development teams, you’re seeing it even in back office functions. It’s just gonna give people who have the strategic thought and the vision an opportunity to sort of make themselves stronger, which I think will be ultimately a positive. It’ll eliminate the barrier to entry and we may be entering into the golden age of entrepreneurship. Like the hurdles to spin up a team and a product and these things are lower than ever. And I think there’s a saying, the riches are in the niches. And so maybe those companies don’t become the decacorns. Maybe they’re very specific to a geography or an industry or a vertical or whatever. The opportunity for entrepreneurship, which is why I think teaching those skill sets earlier. Like if you’re a young person, that’s just going to be wait to be told what to do. You’re going to be struggling.
If you have that ambition, you have that ability to dot connect and see different trends and put them together into something new, leverage AI to help you magnify that, it's going to be a wonderful future for those people.
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Yeah, no, I think AI is a huge thing. And also outsourcing. I think outsourcing is also a very powerful force because when you can have people in South America, in Asia, in India, Europe, they all can work for your company part-time and you can basically pick experts. You don’t have to commit to having them full-time, potentially much lower salaries.
As an entrepreneur, you can leverage it much better than as a big company and that’s also a huge good thing.
I think that’s such a great point. And especially in this world that we’re living in right now, I’m in New Hampshire, I know you’re in another location. It’s like a global workforce. But like so many companies are being built remote first, whether they’re full-time employees or whether they’re outsource vendors. And I think that skill set for the entrepreneur and the founder, the ability to galvanize the team and get everybody rowing in the same direction when they’re all in disparate is going to be really important for them to understand. But I think that it does allow the teams to be built and that combination, I think, of a great idea, leveraging technology and outsourced expertise is going to be the model for sure.
All right. With that, let me ask you my final question. What is the most important question any entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
Steve, I think you nailed it at the beginning of this interview, the “Why.” There are a lot of easier ways to make money than being an entrepreneur. I’m a big Dave Goggins fan, and that guy puts himself in a lot of extreme situations. And when you are running a hundred mile race and you’re at 65 miles and it sucks, you can’t lie to yourself. You have to know why you are there. And that’s the same thing with entrepreneurship. When you are late at night, it’s three o’clock in the morning, you’re awake because you’re worried about the 18 different problems that you have. You have to know why you are doing it. Because it’s going to make you uncomfortable. It’s going to push you beyond what you think you are capable of.
And if that’s your “Why,” like you want to do something, you want to make the most out of life, you want to have like learning and skills and have an impact and feel like you’ve built something, then you’re in the right spot. But if it’s just to make money or to be on the cover of TechCrunch or whatever, like you’re gonna have to kind of reevaluate because it’s not always as glamorous as that. But that’s a good point for everything. Why did you get married? Why did you have children? Like nothing worthwhile in life is easy. And in those difficult moments, if you can be able to dwell upon like, this is why you’re doing this, it’ll make it all more fruitful.
So is it really a spiritual dimension that we are bringing into companies where we asked “Why?” Is this that we want to provide people with not just the intellectual stimulation, not just the financial, obviously, you have to feed your family, your career progression, but then the bigger “Why” is it’s more of a spiritual thing. Can you emotionally connect to a purpose that is bigger than yourself and doesn’t necessarily have to be religious. It can be something that you really strongly believe in, it’s kind of a spiritual dimension.
Yeah, I mean, literally, life is just about how you fill your time. And right, like I love my wife, I love my children, yet I spend a lot of time at work. And so if I’ve chosen that I have to spend that time somewhere besides there, I want it to be meaningful. And it’s one of the reasons when we go back to the Drumbeat Marketing plan and having that market in and having that unique point of view, we try to always bubble that vision up to something more meaningful beyond just the thing you’re selling. We worked with a company that did digital notary. What we’re trying to do is provide peace of mind for people in their most intense moments. Like when do you need a notary? When you’re buying something, when you’re doing like some medical thing or something, like there’s these really big moments of your life. And if we can make that process easier for you, then we’re allowing you to be focused on the biggest moment. It’s that connection, It’s that thing. That’s what people want to work for. They want to work with people and they want to work on something. I think they want to work with something that’s meaningful. And that’s the little bit extra that gets you to run through the wall, as opposed to just stopping and saying like, eh, it’s kind of hard. And that’s in the end of it, that’s the difference between the companies that make it and the companies that don’t. And so that’s why I think it’s a really important thing to have.
Love it. Love this metaphor running through walls. This is very powerful. Adam Coughlin, co-founder, CMO and managing partner of York IE, helping startups to go to market and beat the drum on marketing and increase their revenue and tell their story. Thanks very much for sharing your wisdom on the show. And if you enjoyed this conversation, then make sure you follow us on YouTube, you subscribe as well, and give us a review, please, on Apple Podcasts, so we can beat the drum louder going forward. So Adam, thanks for coming and thank you for listening.
Thank you very much for having me, Steve. And if anybody’s interested, we are just york.ie. And please hit me up on LinkedIn. I’d love to carry this conversation on with anybody.
Yeah, do check out york.ie and you’ll find great resources. Thank you, Adam.
Thank you, Steve.
Important Links:* Adam’s LinkedIn * York IE
https://youtu.be/wn9XOB_H-asDave Molenda, Business and Sales Coach, Speaker, Best-selling Author, and Host of the Positive Polarity Podcast, is driven by a mission to help business owners grow intentionally by strengthening their teams and delivering exceptional customer experiences.
We dive into Dave’s journey and his ST+ICE=P Formula, which stands for Strengthen the Team + Improve the Customer Experience = Profit. Dave explains how focusing first on internal team engagement leads to outstanding customer experiences, which then fuels sustainable business growth. We also discuss lessons from his book Growing On Purpose, why most businesses grow by accident rather than design, how to spot hidden blind spots, and when letting go of the wrong customers is the right move for your company’s health and future.
—Cover Your Blindspots with Dave MolendaGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest here is Dave Molenda, who is a business and sales coach, speaker, best-selling author and the host of the wonderful Positive Polarity podcast. Dave, welcome to the show.
Hi, Steve. how are you today?
I’m doing pretty good because I’m meeting you, so it’s already injecting some positivity in my day.
Well good, I’m honored to be hanging out with you and thanks to you for being on our episode 260. I loved our question, “does your business have Covid?” That was a blast. So that was a great episode. So, for anyone listening, if you wonder if your business has Covid, I’m not going to tell you anything else other than head over and listen to Steve’s answer to that question. It was awesome.
Well, hopefully your business doesn’t have Covid because it’s a potentially lethal malady.
Exactly. For sure.
But it was, it really was a fun episode and we created a lot of snippets that we put on our website, so we definitely are excited about it.
Awesome.
But we’re not going to talk about this because we are going to talk about your stuff and what you are doing because it is at least as good, if not better, and we are going to dive into your frameworks, your book and all your experiences, your “Why” and all that good stuff. So, are you ready?
I’m ready. I got my seatbelt on. I’m all set here so we can go as fast or as slow as you want.
Okay, so let’s fast track into my favorite question. What is your personal “Why,” Dave? And how are you manifesting it in your practice and in your business?
Yeah, for sure. I tell you, it’s interesting, Steve. I love the name of your podcast, using a blueprint as a framework, because I can’t believe how many people start and try to grow a business without a blueprint, without some kind of framework. So I love unpacking that with you on my show. But my “Why” is for all the people that are out there that are so good at what they do, they’re good at their craft, they’re good at their skill, whether it’s building a house, whether it’s selling something, whatever it is, making something, they’re so good at that. But boy, they struggle when asking the question about, how do I grow this business? How do I create a team? How do I develop this team? How do I make this a long-lasting business?
So my “Why” is really coming alongside of those people. Again,
genuine people, really good at what they do, but they very often are struggling with what to do once they have gotten to the end so far.
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They’ve asked all their neighbors and friends, they’ve asked all their acquaintances to buy whatever they have. I don’t know about you, but we get inundated with all the Girl Scout cookies from all your friends and family. But rarely do you get a knock on the door from somebody that you don’t know. So my whole goal is to help businesses that are struggling, that want to grow. And so we come alongside them and help them again and create a blueprint different than yours. Our blueprint a lot of times involves the customer. So that’s kind of where I come in and start to help out the people that are struggling.Yeah, I mean, customer is king. So definitely, I’m curious about how do you start with the customer and how do you strengthen companies through looking at their customer service?
Yeah, for sure.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, and the interesting thing is we’re all customers to somebody in our own as a consumer. So, we know when we’ve been treated bad. We know when we’ve had a great experience. And let’s just look at it from a super simple perspective. If you have a great experience at a restaurant, you’re going to tell a bunch of people. Just like if you have had a bad experience. If I come up and say, Steve, I’m going to be up in your neck of the woods in a week or so, where would be a great place to eat? You’re not going to tell me the place that you had a bad experience unless you don’t like me. You’re going to tell me about the place that you had a great experience with, and then I’m going to go there, and then I’m going to tell people. So having that good customer experience is so crucial to pretty much any business. And that’s where we love to kind of put on the glasses of the customer and see what they’re seeing and help business owners understand their business from the customer’s perspective.
Okay. So you have a framework around this, haven’t you?
Yes.
How to strengthen and develop the customer experience. So tell me a little bit about this framework and how that works and how can our listeners visualize what they need to do with it.
For sure. Again, there’s three primary parts to everybody’s business. There’s the product or service that you make or sell or whatever you do. There’s something you do, which is one piece. There’s the customer that buys it, and then there’s the team that actually creates that experience. So I wrote a book called Growing On Purpose and we found the connection between a strong team creates a strong customer experience just like a weak team provides a weak experience. So we created an easy formula of ST, which is strengthen the team, and then plus ICE which is improving your customer experience, equals P for profit. And it’s pretty safe to say that if you’re looking for profit, the two places that you really need to invest your time in is strengthening your team and improving your customer’s experience. Because all the research that we did shows that those two are very strong. And I’m guessing you probably run into a lot of people, Steve, that they focus a lot on the product or service. They’re a master at what they do, which is great, but they forget to invest time in the team and they forget to invest time in that customer’s experience.
So again, wrote the book to be able to help people to see how they can strengthen the team, some pieces around that, and how to improve that customer experience.
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If those two are there, then profit is a guarantee.Yeah, and what I think Jeff Bezos speaks about is that you have to start with your team, because if you have a happy team who are being treated well and who are excited about your mission, your “Why,” then they are going to project that out to the customer and then they’re going to take care of the customer and then both of them is going to work. It’s very hard to imagine that you mistreat your team and then they’re going to take care of the customer. It’s probably highly unlikely.
Yeah. And I totally agree with that. And it’s funny because as a consumer, we just switched mobile phone carriers and we went from one company to another, won’t mention names, but interestingly enough, the new company, the gentleman that we were working with, he is actually leaving the company and going to a competitor. So, his experience, my experience as a customer was average to below average. And you could just tell that there wasn’t the engagement, there wasn’t the enthusiasm, there wasn’t the excitement. And I think that happens so much more often than we as business owners. We think our team is as strong as we are. And I speak all over the country about this, Steve. And it’s funny because Gallup says right now that one in three people on your team show up engaged in their job, which means two out of three people are not engaged. And everywhere that I speak around the country on this, people always come up to me and they’re like, well, that’s not my team.
That’s not my team. And I’m like, hey, I’m not saying it is or isn’t, but somewhere there’s a bunch of disengaged people and chances are pretty high that you have some on your team. So
we invest a ton of energy to make sure that team is as strong as possible because like I said earlier, a strong team creates a strong experience for that customer.
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And we’re at the point on that phone like we’re thinking maybe we made a mistake, should we switch back? And for that, for us as consumers, and we’re one consumer in the grand scheme of things, but how many other people did that individual negatively affect in the business and what does that look like long-term? So my suggestion to business owners is take a good hard look at your team. Secret shop them. We secret shop our clients, they ask us to do that, we videotape, we do everything we can to make sure that they are getting the absolute best experience possible so that they can charge more, they can have people come back more often, they buy more. There’s just no negatives to a great customer experience.So what are the key ingredients to having, I mean I understand the mystery shopping or secret shopping thing, but that’s more of a control mechanism. But you’re just quality controlling of what they are doing. How do you get them to do it better? What are the key ingredients to great customer experience?
Yeah, no, it’s a great question. And it starts with the engaged employee. Like I said, there’s engaged people, there’s not engaged, and then actively disengaged. I mean, if you don’t treat your team like a customer, I mean, I always tell the people that I run into, there’s an external customer, which is your client, and then there’s an internal customer, which is your team. And it’s crazy how few people really consider and think that way. So the first thing is to consider your team as important as your customer and treating them fair and treating them with respect and treating them with being open with them, helping them as much as you can. It’s not like rocket science. When we did the research, it wasn’t like these complicated things.
I mean, a team member, they want to feel connected to the rest of their team. So that’s a simple piece. They want to feel like they are making a difference. So they want to know what the values and mission are of the company. So if you don’t have those, I always laugh, I tell people that know anything about golf, just imagine going to a golf course that was absolutely beautiful. It’s just the best, prettiest golf course you’ve ever seen. The difference is, Steve, is it doesn’t have a green and it doesn’t have a hole. And so you’re standing at the tee box and they say, go ahead, tee off. And you’re just like, well, where do I tee off? And they’re just like, well, tee off anywhere. And that’s how it is when a company doesn’t have a goal, individual goal, a corporate goal, some kind of goal for that. I’m sure you talk about goals like crazy in your Summit OS, because again, without goals, what good is it? Well, we need to be able to have goals for our team members as well.
And sometimes they’re financial, sometimes they’re behavioral goals. And I think the big goal that a lot of people miss, Steve, is the attitude goal. We really look at the attitude to make sure, because again, we’re all consumers. Think of the last time that you were buying something somewhere and you were not getting a very good experience. Maybe it was a restaurant, maybe it was a clothing store, wherever, but it really caused a negative experience to the point a lot of people, they’re just not gonna go back. So we’re trying
to do everything we can to make sure that people come back and it all starts with that engaged employee.
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Yeah. Well, yesterday I had one such experience where I decided never to go back. I’m not going to name names, but it was very disappointing. So anyhow, I like your analogy with the green and the hole. I’m thinking maybe the green is the core values, is the foundation where you start. And then the goal is maybe your BHAG, your Big Hairy Audacious Goal, at the end of the fairway. It’s a really good analogy.
Yeah, and hopefully the goal isn’t just to get to five o’clock so I can punch out and go home. Hopefully the goal is not to just get a paycheck so that I can pay my bills. I’m hoping, and we train, there’s gotta be deeper stuff than that. Whatever bad experience you had yesterday probably was because there wasn’t a very good team behind it or an individual behind it or a leader behind it because the best companies today, look at Google, the top 10 customer experience type companies. You’re seeing things going on that 10 years ago you never saw. And because people are going to whatever length they need to improve that customer’s experience.
We have some people in different industries that are putting their money where their mouth is, Steve. They’re saying, if you don’t like it, you don’t pay for it, whatever it is, whether it’s a service, a product. And we’re so worried about the 2%, and the research shows like about 2% of people will take advantage of that. Well, the amount of positive movement and the amount of momentum that you get from the other 98% of people that are gonna get this concept, the 2% ruin it. So I suggest to the companies that we work with and people listening today, don’t worry about those 2%. The 98% are going to more than cover you. There’s so few people that are out there to take advantage of you and yes, they are out there. Maybe you know a bunch of them, but the vast majority of people,
they want a good service and the best part is they'll pay more for good service.
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Two out of three people that they surveyed said, I would pay more for a better experience. So if you’re listening and you’re struggling with profit, you’re struggling with sales, look internally rather than blame your competitor or the government or the weather. Look internally. You’re going to find a ton of great opportunity right there.I agree with you. And what people forget when they think about the 2% that maybe cancels or whatever, that those people are not helping themselves. Because if you provide the good experience, then they found someone who can help them. They should treasure you and keep you in their good graces. That they found a reliable someone who’s helping them. Why did they even cancel? It doesn’t make sense. So if you don’t provide good service, then they are right to cancel. So it’s important to provide good service. But I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s not about you. It’s about them. Maybe they have a scarcity mindset or something like that. So Dave, I’d like to switch gears and talk a little bit about your book.
Sure.
A couple of questions I have about it. First of all, the title ,Positive Polarity, which is also the name of your company. And I read a little bit on your website about the polarity, the opposites, and the dynamic. But I’d like you to explain it in your own words. Why did you choose this as the name of your company, your podcast? What’s important about polarity?
Sure, for sure. And we started with positive because again, the only people, Steve, that like to hang out with negative people are negative people. So they all kind of gather somewhere where we don’t want to be, which is fine. I mean, if you’re a negative person and you’re okay with it, you know what, that’s up to you. But I love hanging out with positive people. I love seeing and talking to people that look and see the glasses half full, not half empty. It’s just really a perspective. So the positive piece was definitely something that we wanted. And the polarity is interesting because in today’s world, we’re looking for the easiest way out. Most businesses, most companies, you hear words like low-hanging fruit. You hear words like easy opportunities. I don’t know about you, but I get inundated on LinkedIn and they’re telling me, hey, for five minutes a day, I can make you millions of dollars. And it’s just like, it doesn’t even make sense. There’s gotta be some friction.
There’s gotta be some opportunity where something’s hard. I mean, it’s hard to grow a business in today’s world. So the polarity piece is we try to challenge the natural way to do things, the easy way. The worst words that I hear is, that’s just how we do it around here. My grandpa did it this way. My dad did it this way. I’m going to do it this way. There’s no real challenge there. And it might have worked back then, which is great, but what worked 50 years ago probably won’t work nearly as well today without some type of modification. So we brought the polarity word in just as an opposing force to that natural way of, hey, let’s just take the easy way out on this. And it’s just been a great ride to find people that are buying into that process as well. I like it because I think about this expedition, I’m trying to remember the name of the adventurer in 1911 who went to the South Pole and got stuck in the ice. Before the actual expedition, he put a little ad in the Times and he basically described the challenges of this expedition. They’re looking for people who are not afraid to die and who are willing to be frozen for like two years and be in terrible hardship.
Wait, show me that ad, I’m all in on that. Dying and freezing to death.
A lot of people applied because they just were attracted to this challenge. That was exciting. There was something to work with there. And I’m thinking that you’re probably right. If you want the right kind of clients, then the offer is not that you take the pill and you wake up slim tomorrow. That’s not credible. And you don’t want to attract those people that are hoping for this kind of results. You want someone who’s willing to work hard, willing to get out of their comfort zone and do the work. So tell me, Dave, what is the Positive Polarity book about and what prompted you to write it?
Yeah, so you’re talking about silver bullets and secret sauce. That’s what everybody wants. They want that super easy opportunity and I haven’t found it. So again, if it’s out there, great. And you’re listening here, let us know. We can both learn from it. We wrote the book called Growing On Purpose because it is one of those books that I run into again a lot of people that grow by mistake. They don’t have that blueprint. So you ask them the question, how did you get where you are? And they’re like, you know what, I don’t know, hard work, a lot of hours. Well, what were the steps or can you replicate that if you needed to? Or if somebody was going to give you $10 million to franchise your business, could you walk them through these steps? And so many people couldn’t. So people are growing by mistake. And I said, when we were writing the book Growing On Purpose, it was like, let’s talk about being intentional with our growth. And
the two areas that we focused on were the team and the customer.
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And those are two fixtures in your process that you control them. You control what the customer does and doesn’t do to a large extent. You control what your team does and doesn’t do. And if you have, like, that’s why I love this podcast, the blueprint, without a blueprint, hey, you know what, who builds a house without a blueprint? Let’s just kind of put a wall here and a wall here and let’s just see what happens. I mean, it’s not how this works, but yet this is how people do it in business all the time. And it’s unfortunate. So I was hoping, and again, we became an Amazon number one bestseller in three different categories. So it was cool to see people are like using these pieces to learn how to treat my team and how to treat my customer. And I thought it was common sense, Steve, I really did. But I realized that we may know it up here, but we’re not actually practicing it. So that’s, I think, the power is to have a blueprint and follow it and then see what happens.
Yeah. I love this bipolar focus, the team and the customer, the internal customer, the external customer, or you can even say the internal team and the external team, because your customers can become your missionaries for you if you give them a good product or good service. So that’s a really great perspective. I have a couple of questions to you, Dave, because you’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time and you’ve been through thick and thin and you know that things don’t come easy. What has been the most unexpectedly rewarding part for you of being a business owner?
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think it’s really, I’m shocked at how simple information revealed in a certain way to people can transform their business, transform their life. I just had somebody on my show the other day and we released it not too long ago and it was interesting because it was somebody that doesn’t normally do podcasts and she was so afraid and she almost cancelled. She was like, this isn’t live, is it? I’m like, no. I mean there was just so much apprehension on the front end and I said we just went through it and it was easy. And then on the back end, she shared it with her family and her family was just so supportive and they were just like amazed at how much this person has grown. And they were so excited. It was so transformational for me to think that I had something to do with this family coming closer together, this person tackling things outside of her comfort zone. I just think the impact on others has been the biggest reward for me. It’s just in places that you don’t even know. There was another person that came up to me.
I was doing a talk on comfort zone and getting outside of it. And somebody raised their hand because I said in the audience, who here is struggling with something in their comfort zone? A lady raised her hand and she said, I want to speak in front of others, but I’m scared to death. I’m like, well, here’s the mic. You want to do it right now? So she gets up and she starts talking. And then I find out a year later at the next conference that I saw her at that she applied to be a speaker and got accepted. And she has been working on conquering that fear. So I just think that impact on others has just been way more helpful for me, and it’s just been way more impactful on me than I ever thought it would be.
Yeah, it’s certainly a very rewarding profession to be a coach. I used to be an investment banker, and we did the deals, and we made some money, and it was very exciting, and it’s very stressful often, but it’s so much more positive to help people in all circumstances and not make it a win-lose. So it’s definitely great.
Yeah.
Okay. So let’s take the flip side of this. So we talked about the rewarding experience. What was the hardest decision you ever had to make in your business, Dave?
I think that we run into this on a regular basis. I have to make this decision about, and it sounds weird, but do I fire a customer or don’t I? Those are really hard decisions and I don’t want to make it from a decision of I’m better than a person, they’re inferior to me. I make that decision based on am I adding value to this particular person? Because if we go and we don’t add value to somebody’s life, it’s really hard for me personally to charge them money for that. I mean, I tell people, whether it’s in a training, a keynote somewhere in the country, whatever it is, if you don’t leave the time with me better than you came, it really wasn’t a success. And it can be small little course corrections. It doesn’t need to be life-altering things that go on, but it’s just really small course corrections. And the best example that I can think of from a course correction is, I live in the Midwest, and if I want to fly to California and let’s just say my destination was San Diego because we live there part-time.
So if we are flying from the Midwest to San Diego and up in the air, the pilot decides to make a two-degree course correction, you don’t feel it on the airplane, you don’t see it on the map, but all of a sudden you end up landing in LA at LAX, which is a painful two and a half hour drive south. So that small course correction at the beginning made a massive impact on the back end. And so that’s what I really like is I’m not looking for people that, oh my gosh, you changed my life, which I love when that happens. But I like when someone walks up and says, I’m gonna do this different. Like that lady, I’m going to jump outside of my comfort zone and I’m going to act to apply to be a speaker. And now she’s doing it. And it was because of something that I said that caused that. So the hardest thing is when do you fire somebody, when don’t you? And again, it’s tough, but it’s something that we as business owners, we probably need to do more of.
I agree with you. I think when you are able to do it and discontinue your relationship with a client who is no longer a fit or no longer gets value. It raises your own self-esteem. You’re holding yourself to a higher standard and then it means that you’re aware of what you’re doing and you’re holding yourself accountable to delivering value. I love it. I think it’s a great concept.
Yep, absolutely. And again, the whole goal, and this should be for anybody listening, that hopefully when somebody leaves your presence, they feel better. They’re farther along. They’re advancing. There’s something that happened that’s not bringing them backwards. And that’s where we need to make sure we understand the importance of our words, our body language, our tone. All of the pieces of communication are just really important when it comes to communicating with your team and communicating with your customer.
Yeah, no doubt. All right. Well, one more question. I have to get it off my chest. We talked about coaching. Coaching is done through questions. It’s creating awareness, creating that little bit of forward movement so that people live different and better than they arrived. So what is the most important questions entrepreneurs should be asking themselves?
That’s a great question. I’m working on my next book about business blind spots and it really actually kind of what we talked about before and the question really is to the entrepreneur listening right now, who is helping you with your blind spots? We all have them. We all operate from them sometimes. And who’s helping you? I mean, the funniest person is one that says, you have blind spots, I have none. That’s like we all have them. It’s proven we all have blind spots. So who’s helping you? Whether it’s a coach, whether it’s someone on your team, whether it’s an advisory group, whether it’s a board of directors, whatever that looks like in your world, I am totally open to whatever. But that’s the interesting thing, is we all have a blind spot. Who’s helping you with them? In a car, we have a rear view mirror and we have side mirrors because they help us with our blind spots. Who is doing that for you? Because otherwise, you can go your whole life, Steve, and never really address those blind spots.
And it’s funny because I work with leaders from around the country and I hear, oh, my team, I can’t keep a good team together. And the first question I always ask is, what are you as the leader, what are you not doing, or what could you do better? Look at it for yourself rather than again blame the team, because it’s super easy to blame the team. It’s super easy to blame the customer, the government, the environment, whatever. It’s easy. It’s really hard to look internal and say, what am I doing? And we don’t know what we don’t know. So there’s plenty of times where people have blind spots. They don’t even know that they’re doing it. So that would be my number one question is who is helping me with my blind spots?
Yeah, I love it. Love this question and actually we do an exercise in our annual leadership team meetings, which is titled “Cover Blindspots,” and we give each other feedback on blind spots and it’s always very powerful.
But think about that, Steve, if I come at you negatively, if I come at you demeaning, if I come at you in disrespect, anything I say, you’re probably going to try to refute. You’re going to build a wall. So we need vulnerability. We need respect because if you’re going to talk about my blind spots or I’m going to talk about yours, I really have to be in a safe place to be able to receive anything that you say. So that’s why I think it’s important to have somebody that you trust, a coach, an advisory board, a partner, whatever it is. But if we’re not in the right headspace, we’re not going to be able to receive that feedback because we’re just going to justify it and blow it off and just go about our day. So, in addition to making sure you’re helping with the blind spot, it’s got to be in a safe place that we can trust who’s sharing that with us. Because let’s face it, if you didn’t trust me, Steve, and I was going to tell you about a blind spot you had, your wall would go up and you probably would have a little bit harder of time receiving that from somebody that was doing it disrespectfully.
Yeah, that’s no doubt a very delicate approach. It’s required. People don’t like to be confronted with their blind spots and they need trusted advisors who they can take it from. So definitely a good point. Dave, we’re coming to the end of the show. So if people would like to learn more about the Positive Polarity Podcast, would like to perhaps apply to be on it, or like to reach out to you and talk to you and figure out how you can help them cover their blind spots, or make those little course corrections that’s going to get them to LA, especially in the film industry, they don’t want to end up in San Diego. Where should they go and where can they find you?
Sure, yeah, positivepolarity.com is the easiest place to go. The podcasts are there, the book is there, Growing On Purpose, everything’s there, our coaching schedule, our training schedule, where we’re speaking, so all that’s there. You just go there, connect with me on LinkedIn. Whatever’s easiest for you, we’re here to serve you any way that we can. And again, thank you for letting me hang out with you. And I’m glad that you didn’t ask me any Covid questions like I asked you.
Awesome. Well, Dave, thank you for sharing your wisdom about growth, about customer service, the importance of it, the team, covering blind spots, making little course corrections and leaving coaching sessions better than when you arrived. These are all very golden recommendations. So, if you’ve been listening to this and you enjoyed the show, then make sure that you follow us on YouTube. You give us a review on Apple Podcasts, please, and follow us on LinkedIn. And stay tuned because every week, I get a wonderful guest who is bringing some golden nuggets to the show. So thank you for coming, Dave.
Thank you.
And thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Dave’s LinkedIn * Dave’s website
https://youtu.be/VsYNJyvLhJQDevin Sizemore, Connector, Consultant, Speaker, and author of Connection Expansion, is driven by a mission to help entrepreneurs unlock opportunity by building meaningful, leveraged relationships that drive growth.
We explore Devin’s journey into connection strategy and his creation of the Connection Expansion Framework, a system designed to help business owners stop chasing prospects and instead build a thriving network that brings opportunity to them. The framework includes five key steps: identifying connectors to your target market, asking to be introduced, building strategic partnerships, saturating your niche, and staying top of mind through long-term follow-up.
Devin explains why most entrepreneurs overemphasize referrals and underestimate the value of partnerships, events, and collaborations. He shares how to reduce friction in introductions, build authority in niche communities, and turn warm relationships into a consistent flywheel of growth. He also discusses his book Connection Expansion, a tactical guide to putting this system into action.
—Expand Your Network with Devin SizemoreGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And today my guest is Devin Sizemore, who is a connector, consultant, speaker, and author of Connection Expansion. Devin, welcome to the show.
Steve, thanks so much for having me. Been looking forward to this conversation.
Yeah, I’ve been looking forward to it too, especially since I read, I’m through about halfway through your book, Connection Expansion, and I found it fascinating, so let’s talk about it. But first, let’s start with your personal “Why” and how you are manifesting it in your business and businesses.
Definitely. I love that question. I think a lot of people aren’t aligned with their “Why,” and so I love that you start there. My personal “Why” is my first core principle that I share in the book, which is always add value. So everything I do, I focus on how do I add value to others, whether that’s just people I’m meeting, whether that’s clients, whether that’s your listeners, I’m always focused on adding value.
And so everything I do, every decision I make has to align with adding value.
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And if it does, great. If it doesn’t, I’m probably not interested in doing it.That’s a good principle to live by, to always add value. I had a client who had one of their core values was always add value. It was a consulting company and I thought it was very appropriate. So let’s talk about your book, Connection Expansion, which describes your unique networking system. So my question is what prompted you to write a book about networking and about the system?
Yeah, again, another great question. I’ve been doing consulting for 15 years. I’ve owned a bunch of companies and the core of it has always been connections. But where I think we’re a little bit different and where I’m different is I have the ability to be a visionary. So what do I think I wanna create, but also being tactical. So grounding that into an actual system. Seven years ago, I really focused on connections. A couple of hundred clients later, and we’ve proven the system works. And so writing the book was kind of the last step of that process with me going through and really documenting the questions, the follow-up, the cadence, the templates, the whole system in a way that I could share it easily with the world. And then I work with a lot of book clients with one of my biggest clients. And so the combination of, I want to do it, and I’m watching all these people have success with books kind of led to me going, hey, it’s my turn to do this and I need to share it with the world.
Okay. And why is it important to build a network, to have lots of connections? Maybe it’s a stupid question, but I’m still curious.
No, it’s a great question because depending on what your goals are currently, the answer is different. And so the subtitle I have on my book is you’re one connection away from massive success in your life and business. And so that subtitle is really about this idea that one connection can unlock everything for you personally and professionally. And because of that, that’s why connections are so important because you never know which one of those connections is going to unlock something super big for you.
Can you give an example where a connection unlocked a big opportunity for someone?
Yeah. So, let’s go the kind of whole gamut. So, the first would be like an ideal internship. So as a college student or someone young in their profession, they want to land this perfect internship in the right industry with the right people. It could be finding the perfect job with no competition. So being invited to be an applicant for a job instead of having to go through a candidate pool of 30 candidates, it could be seven figure deals, JV partnerships, integrated offers. I’m doing a workshop in two weeks at a mastermind, I’m facilitating the whole second day, that was through a connection. So it’s everything from a connection for an attorney, a service provider, something you need, a job opportunity, seven figure deals. Like there’s so many examples and reasons why one connection can unlock something for you.
Yeah, that is true. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know, they say. Let’s talk about the framework because in this book, Connection Expansion, you developed or you documented this framework which people can actually use to build their own network, their own connection expansion process. Can you share the steps? I think it was about six steps. Share the steps of this framework and how that works.
Yeah, for sure. So in the book, the first step is the connection expansion exercise, and that’s where we shift from targeting clients to targeting everyone who surrounds our clients. That’s the first thing that really unlocks the process, and then it shifts your ask from the ideal client profile to these strategic partners. Once you have that grounded, the rest of the process is how do you approach networking? How do you follow up? How do you schedule connection meetings? What is a connection meeting and how do you have a successful meeting? How do you follow up and add value from the connection meeting? And then how do you nurture someone long term? What’s that template and the messaging there? And so those are all the different elements that when combined with the core principles will unlock your network success.
So connection expansion exercise, and then you get into the networking follow-up, so how you use this whole networking process and adding value. So what does the connection expansion exercise do? What is the outcome of this exercise?
Yeah, so let’s talk about it. We’ll use realtors as an example, because I think it’s something everyone can relate to. So when I ask a realtor who they want to connect with, they’ll usually answer with their ideal client profile. So, first-time buyers or move-up buyers or investment buyers. They have a profile of a buyer or a profile of a seller. Typically, it’s buyers though. That’s great. That’s the ideal client. The savvier realtors, when you ask them, who can I connect you with? They’ll go, I want to know mortgage lenders or insurance agents. Because they know that those are good strategic partners that have access to a lot of potential ideal clients. But that’s where most people stop. And so in your industry, it’s probably the same thing.
Who do you want to connect with is the ideal client profile. And then the next step would be like the standard referral partner. Where we go steps further in the connection expansion exercise, we look at vendors. So which vendors are your ideal client spending money with? Where do your ideal clients get educated? Where do they gather? Who has influence over them? Who do they trust? And who’s a general connector? And so there’s six more categories we explore so we can build out a much deeper list of potential connections to that ideal client. Then we align that list with our personal preferences, our history and background, the things we’re passionate about, and we identify five or six strategic connections that we can ask for.
That starts to position us in better rooms and better meetings and it eliminates all the friction when we’re building our network. Because if we only ask for ideal clients, I’m asking Steve to connect me with the prospect so I can sell to them. It creates so much friction in the introduction. Whereas if I educate Steve and say, Hey Steve, I want to connect with the business CPA because we’re targeting similar clients and there’s great alignment. You can go through your database like, oh, I know a few CPAs, let me connect you. Now there’s no friction, it’s easier to make the intro. And so the process is to get you to change your ask, to build this list that your competition is not thinking about, and then to open all these opportunities up with less friction.
Yeah, I like this idea. And you’re right. I mean, sometimes I hesitate. Someone asks me, okay, this is the ideal client. I’m a service provider. Maybe I’m an HR, fractional HR. And unless I know that this person would do a fantastic job and I trust them, I hesitate to introduce them to my client because then the implication will be that they want me to talk to that person, that I am vouched for that person and I might not be in a position to do that, but other connectors would be easy to do. Now, if someone introduces me, let’s say my target client is small to medium sized business owners and maybe financial advisors would have good connections and I don’t know, CMOs, marketing people. And I drew the six different types of connection, build this list. So, what do I do with that list? Do I just talk to these people and explain what I do? Or is that also part of the connection exercise, how to engage with these people who are not my target market?
Yeah. So once you have your list, the quickest action item is to go back to your current network and schedule more meetings. The issue is there’s so much untapped potential in your network. You’ve probably met with a lot of people in your network, but when you were meeting with them, they were probably focused on educating you on ideal clients.
You were probably focused on educating them on ideal clients, which kept your conversation really closed.
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Instead of you looking at that person and going, oh wait, they have a natural network that’s full of these ideal strategic connections. So if I can go back and have a conversation with someone where I can get to know you better, we dig in deep, this is the connection meeting, they get to know me better, we dig in deep. And yeah, we understand ideal clients in case there’s someone who raises their hand, but we dig in deeper with these other six buckets in mind. It allows me to shift my ask and go, hey, you mentioned your background as being a fractional CMO. I’m betting you have a lot of marketing contacts because of that. Those are great connections for me because we’re targeting similar people but offering different services. Like anyone that you connected to while you were in that part of your journey, we probably could collaborate. And what we’re doing is we’re eliminating all these barriers for connections. So the list, although it’s your target, you shouldn’t be going out and cold prospecting the people on that list. You should then be taking that idea to your warm market and changing the conversation because what we’re trying to do is get them to introduce us to these strategic connections. Because if we’re getting two, three, four of these connections a day, we start to fill our calendar with much better leveraged meetings, which allows us to expand our network rapidly.
Okay. So it’s not that we don’t want to talk to our target market clients, it’s just that we want to first build a connector network so that we can have a lot of opportunities connect to our target markets. Is that it?
Yeah. We want referrals, but the problem is most people stop there. They ask their clients to give them referrals, they ask their network to give them referrals. It’s all prospects, which goes back to that friction. The quote I tell everyone is everyone wants to buy. Nobody wants to be sold. Yet, everything about that referral world positions people to be sold. So what we’re doing is we’re taking the barriers down and we’re going one step before that. Let’s build the connection network. Let’s build the strategic partnerships.
Let’s surround our clients so that when they do raise their hand and the time’s right, the budget’s right, they have enough pain point and problem, we’re the only option because no matter where they look, everyone’s saying, hey, you got to work with Steve, you got to work with Devin, you got to work with Bob. And so we’re going to get referrals at the long end of this process, but in the meantime, we’re going to explore integrated offers, strategic partnerships, podcasts, beakings, events, joint masterminds, all of these other things that you’re missing. Because again, you’re just chasing clients. You’re not chasing the strategic connections.
Okay. So the goal here is to really build up the top of mind awareness in a small community, which is like the local community of all those people who could connect you to the ideal target market. You basically want to saturate all those connectors with the top of mind awareness for us so that whenever someone raises their hands, we’re going to be the logical choice?
Yeah. So the quote I use there is, you want to be the authority in rooms where your competition doesn’t play. And so let me give you a real example. I was on with this gentleman named Peter last week that I was connected to. Just a joint connecting email. We were connected because he’s targeting faith-based business owners and so are we for one of our projects. I get on and talk to Peter. He tells me a service offering, tells me what he’s doing, and then we start trying to connect some dots and I ask him how he is doing a service offering. He says, I’m doing it through group coaching. Do you know this person? That’s who I’m working with. Oh, funny. I’m going to be the host of that guy’s summit in two weeks. Oh, you’re going to be attending?
So instantly, I just went from some person he was connected to. I was already edified and elevated to now all of a sudden, I’m more of an expert because I’m facilitating day two at an event he’s already paid for. And then we keep going and we find out that his best referral partner, I helped them write their book, they’re a client. His second best referral partner is a really good friend. And the next event he’s going to refers all their business to me. And so, by the end of the meeting, he didn’t even come in to buy my product or service. By the end of the meeting, he was asking what I sell. Because there’s so many connections in common, he’s going, oh, you’re playing at the same level with all these other guys. I must need to work with you or I need you in my network. And so that’s what I want. I want people to get connected to you.
And sure, if they’re an ideal client, there’s so much alignment, but in there, there’s so many strategic things that have happened. There’s events, there’s podcasts, there’s speaking, and this is just one meeting. But most meetings I’m in, this is exactly the scenario is, oh, do you know this person? Yeah, by the way, I work with them or I talked to them or I did this. And so, we’re becoming authorities in these little micro rooms. Sometimes they’re not micro. Sometimes these are big events with 5, 6, 10,000 people. But if you’re the go-to expert there, that’s where you really start to set yourself apart from the competition.
Yeah, I love it. That’s pretty cool. Okay. And what do you find is the appropriate geographical area where you want to create that kind of saturation? Is this a geographical area? Is this a niche market that you want to do this in? So what are the considerations as to delineating this market that you want to go after?
It doesn’t matter what the market definition is. And so the system we use works if you’re trying to attack a geographical market. We do that. We’ve done it in our own market. We do it for clients where we open new markets. It works extremely well if we’re going after verticals. So we’re going after a certain industry type because then we can build all of the relationships in the industry. Or it works if we’re going after a client type just to surround the client type, which becomes its own sort of market. It really doesn’t matter what the strategy is. It just matters that we figure out what our target is and we surround it and we use the network to surround it. And again, we want to do this in ways that we enjoy doing so that you shouldn’t be choosing strategies in places you don’t want to play and places our competition isn’t playing.
Because there’s nothing worse than going to an event where there’s nine of you in the same room exhibiting and speaking. Do you want to go to an event, even if it’s a hundred people, which I’m going to this week in Philadelphia, we’re the only sponsor. Matter of fact, they don’t even have sponsors, but because we had such a good meeting and we were so referred and edified to this person, we became the only sponsor at their event. So now we have a captive audience of perfect fit clients and we’re the only one there offering them anything. So that’s what I want for you. I want you to end up in a room where you’re it. You’re the authority, you’re the go-to and you’re not having to compete for it.
Yeah, that’s great. So do you have an ideal number of connectors that you can effectively work with? Because I find that it’s very hard when there are too many of them. It’s hard to stay top of mind. It’s hard to really know everyone. It’s hard to have enough touch points. So, what’s the Goldilocks zone of these connectors to work with?
Yeah. So, the system works really well with one person. Like you can literally meet one person and start the process. But the backend conversation here is the system. So, we check in with every contact every six weeks and we send them a check-in template. It’s all templatized. It’s not automated, so we do manually send it, but that’s how we nurture our database. We also track all the connections we’ve made. We sort our database. There’s a lot of tips and tricks on the backend there. But the answer is you want to go really wide. We want tons of people to know what you do. We want tons of people to see value. We want you to have made connections and added value to as many people as possible because that’s where we start to get the snowball down the mountain.
If you’ve made a hundred connections for other people, if you’re nurturing a hundred people, it is inevitable that you’re going to get amazing connections for other people. If you’re nurturing a hundred people, it is inevitable that you’re gonna get amazing connections, amazing alignment. I just finished my Monday morning setup for the week and just from Friday noon to Monday morning, 17 inbound connections for me. That’s 17 conversations. I didn’t have to cold call. I get to follow up with, I get to book meetings with, all just from the network.
Okay. Well, that is interesting. I don’t know if it’s possible to have infinite number because how do you then even keep track of who these people are? Maybe they don’t do this with other people, you’re the only one and okay, you don’t even have to know everyone for them to know you. I mean, maybe that’s possible, but I’m still wondering how that works.
So yeah, let’s go a little deeper. So it’s not that we’re trying to have one referral partner sending us a hundred referrals. We wanna have a thousand advocates that anytime someone mentions anything that relates to what we do, we’re the option. And what that does is it spreads it out so that when someone needs something, you’re the only go-to. So, if someone wants to write a book, I get an introduction, hey, Devin’s the guy to write the book. That might be someone I met two years ago and I’ve just been checking in every six weeks. Maybe we haven’t even connected, but I’m still top of mind. Maybe they’ve replied to a couple of emails. But as soon as someone raises their hand or they find an opportunity, and then my checking email shows up, they go, oh, I was thinking of you, but I couldn’t remember who you were. Or I did have a conversation, right?
So we’re trying to create those mental cues where people can go, Oh, you know what, Devin? Yeah, I do have a connection for you. And the other part of this process is we want to nurture long-term because that’s where you set yourself apart from your competition. Your competition is only asking for client referrals. They’re likely only nurturing one or two referral partners that they hope give them enough referrals. They’re not building a long-term nurture strategy where they’re staying top of mind and they’re activating their whole network instead of a really small part of it.
Okay. So it is a numbers game and you want to build this big network that are aware of you and stay top of mind with them and then you can get referrals. Okay. So you’ve been in business for 15 years and you’ve met with lots of entrepreneurs. What do you think is the most important question an entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
It’s so interesting. I think the biggest question is why and then where are we going? It’s kind of a two-part question because I think a lot of people get into business for a lot of the wrong reasons when they start. And so I think really understanding why you’re in business, why you’re doing what you’re doing personally, professionally, who you’re trying to impact, that’s important. And then I did a Mindset podcast last week, and I think that the future anchoring is critical. I think so often people don’t have a big enough vision to where they’re going, what that looks like, what that feels like. And so you’re so stuck in today’s fires and today’s to do list because you’re not thinking about the future. You’re not thinking about the systems and processes, the team, the things you’re going to need to build to become that future version of your business that you’re growing. So why and then where are you going? You’ve got to have clarity on both of those things.
Yeah, I agree. Vision includes both. Why are you doing this and where are you going? Awesome. Well, Devin, thank you for sharing your expertise on creating powerful networks. That’s definitely not been on our podcast yet. I encourage you, if you’re listening to this, to check out Connection Expansion, which is Devin’s book, and it’s available on Audible as well as print and Kindle. So Devin, thanks for coming to the show. And if you’re listening, then stay tuned because every week we bring an exciting entrepreneur or thought leader who helps you grow your business and make it better. If people would like to connect with you, where can they reach you?
Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Steve. I appreciate your questions. You can go to connectionexpansion.com. That will take you to my community where we help facilitate connections. You can also go to devinsizemore.com, which has a bunch more information about me, videos on the system we talked about, templates, frequently asked questions, and a whole bunch more. Love to connect with you. If you have questions, reach out. Happy to answer those questions specifically for you.
Awesome. Well, thank you, Devin. Thanks for coming and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Join Devin’s community * Devin’s website * Connection Expansion by Devin Sizemore
https://youtu.be/bNljuw3uYsIDavid Anderson, Founder of Off Madison Ave and Lighthouse PE, is passionate about helping people and companies thrive through leadership coaching, board service, and team development. We explore how David helps companies build high-performing teams using his High-Performing Team Framework, which includes: psychological safety, a learn and grow mindset, the chemist mentality, and attention to team dynamics when introducing new members.
David also shares lessons from his book Leader is not a Title, emphasizing that true leadership is about influence—not hierarchy. We talk about building trust, breaking silos, and knowing when to evolve as a leader.
—Build High-Performing Teams with David AndersonGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And today I have David Anderson with me on this episode, who is the founder of Off Madison Avenue and Lighthouse PE, two companies that are now doing their own thing. And he is spending his time sitting on boards and doing leadership team coaching as an executive coach, business coach. He’s also the author of Leader is Not a Title, which actually has a very cool cover. You have to read it closely to really see what is the title, what is not the title. But we can get into this later. So David, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on today, Steve.
Absolutely. And let’s start with my favorite question. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your practice and perhaps in your businesses as well?
Yeah, awesome. Great question to kick it off here this morning. My personal “Why” is to help people and companies thrive. I have been very blessed over the years to had a lot of things go my way, be lucky. Believe me, I’ve had my fair share of rough times and screw-ups and bad businesses, but overall, I’m very fortunate. And as you mentioned early on, I am the founder, technically CEO of two companies, Off Madison Ave and Lighthouse PE. I’m not involved day-to-day with those anymore. And I really am helping people and companies thrive now by working as an executive team coach. I really focus on building high performing teams. As we all know, you can have the best strategy in the world, but if you don’t have the right people, it doesn’t really matter. I do speaking on this topic and a few other things and also sitting on boards of directors, helping companies really thrive. So it’s all about helping people and companies thrive.
Love it. Well, okay. So help us and help our listeners thrive as well. And so let’s talk about this thing that you mentioned, the building high performing teams. I totally agree. A company is really a group of people committed to a cause. And if they’re not thriving, then the company is not thriving. So what does it take for a business owner or CEO to build a high-performing team? What are the steps? What is your framework on this?
Well, there’s a few things. There’s lots of factors that get you to a high-performing team, but a high-performing team is one where everybody’s roles are extremely clearly defined. People know how to interact with each other to accomplish the common goal, the strategy, the vision that they’re going to. There’s no silos. Many organizations get caught in silos. They keep it from being a high-performing team. They know how to communicate with each other. 95, I would even say maybe more percent of our challenges are poor communications, lack of communications that get us in the way from ensuring that we are a high-performing team. My most favorite analogy of that, I don’t know how many of your listeners out there are race car fans, maybe race cars once in their life, whatever, but think of a pit crew for a Formula One, IndyCar, NASCAR race.
The driver actually is very important, just like a CEO, chair of achieving goals, winning the race, but it doesn’t happen without the pit crew. And the pit crew is the best example I have been able to come up with of a high-performing team. When they come over the wall, everybody knows exactly what they need to do. I need to jack the car up. I need to take the lug nut off. I need to put the new tire on. I need to adjust the tips for better aerodynamics. I need to clean the windshield. In Indy, you got to refuel. Formula One, you don’t refuel. I know exactly how much fuel it is to get to the next lap or to win the race. That is a high-performing team.
Yeah, it really is and it’s amazing. In Formula One, I remember when I was a kid, it was 15 seconds to do all that stuff and now it’s down to just a few seconds. I don’t even know what it is. Is it like five seconds or less?
It’s unbelievable and if one of those team members, something goes wrong and it becomes a 15 second pit stop, a 20 second, that means the race. It can very well mean the race. So, the question I ask a lot of CEOs that I work with, chairs of the boards and others is can you draw your team out as a pit crew? Who has this role? Who has that role? How does this role interact with the others? Do you have somebody who’s coming over the wall that maybe was good when you were in the minor leagues of auto racing, but now you need a better person to come over the wall, more experience, has done it before, whatever, to ensure you achieve your goal?
One of my absolute favorite people and favorite books is Marshall Goldsmith. While he’s been ranked the number one business coach in the world many times over, but one of his books, he has several, is What Got You Here Won’t Get You There. And as high-performing teams, you may have great people, very good people, but you have all the right people in the right seats at the right time to accomplish the current goals. And that’s a high-performing team when you can say, yes, we have all of those people.
Okay. Yeah. Now, in our pre-call, you also touched upon a couple of concepts I’d like to bring up here. One is psychological safety. So what do you mean by psychological safety and how does one create that?
Yeah, it’s a great question. And that’s one of the factors that with you can have, again, the best people in the world, but if your team doesn’t have psychological safety, I need to come up with a better term. That’s a Harvard term for it, McKinsey, all of those guys, it’s not a Dave term. Does your team have frank conversations? Do they debate? Do they maybe even argue through that? Does everybody in the team feel safe to bring up issues? Does the CEO allow it?
Because the absolute best incomes always come from a team environment where there’s deep conversations where you’re bouncing ideas off of each other and go there. In my book, I talk about the difference between brainstorming and conflict is one thing, ego. Well, actually, let me take that back. Emotions is the one thing, but ego leads to emotions. And does your team, are you able to communicate as a leadership team without emotions? People’s feelings don’t get hurt because you all know that you are working for the good of the organization. And that doesn’t mean we all always agree.
What it does mean is that each person in the room feels heard, and when they leave that room, you leave with one voice. You may not all agree, but you leave as one voice. So again, only difference between brainstorming for the good of the organization and conflict is emotions. And it’s the CEO or the leader’s responsibility to ensure that the emotions are kept to a minimum and it doesn’t become personal. Emotions mean it’s becoming personal. Don’t let it become personal.
Okay. So another concept I’d like to just switch to it that you mentioned was the learn and grow mindset. What do you mean by learn and grow mindset?
Yeah, great question. So I am a graduate of a school here in Arizona, Arizona State University. I’m a little older. It’s an amazing university. Now, I sure had a great time in college, but when I graduated, well, first of all, my grades were never that great. But when I left, I didn’t continue a mindset that I need to learn and grow and expand not only my skill sets, but my personal skills of how do you have a learn and grow mindset where I don’t know everything. As a matter of fact, I’m far from knowing it. How do I have a mindset to hire people that are better than me with skills and that? How many podcasts do you listen to a month? How many books do you read? How many articles do you read? How many would ChatGPT, the greatest thing ever to allow you to learn and grow, dive into topics to learn more?
And it took me a lot of years before I realized that, Dave, you are so far from knowing everything. And there is just about everything I’ve gone through. Thousands and thousands and tens of thousands of people have gone through before are experts of things, learn from their experiences and make yourself better.
Love it. Another concept that you talk about is the chemist mentality. So is this about personal chemistry on the team? Or what is this about?
Yeah, I do. In my book, I talk about CEOs are really chemists. If you think about it, what do chemists do every day? They mix different ingredients. They bring things together to try to get to a formula that provides an outcome. In pharma, in industrial, whatever, it’s all about that. Well, think about your team in the exact same mindset, that it’s the right mix of people, skills, mentalities, levels of experience, all of that that lead to the best outcome. That means a high-performing team that’s achieving the corporate goals, whatever it may be, your division goals or whatever. But, so many times, a new person comes into the mix and we don’t give enough thought to of how that changes the chemistry of the team. How does that change perspectives, all of that? So we constantly need to be thinking about our teams as the outcome of what we are building as chemists and how do we mix and change, adapt that to get there. Does that make sense?
Absolutely. I mean, I see this all the time. I’ve got some clients where there’s a lot of stability on the team, sometimes too much stability and no new team members coming and things starting to get stale. And I often recommend to the CEO that bring in one person who is going to be the yeast in this team, who’s going to stir things up and make everyone perform at a higher level. If you bring in an A player, a high performer, they’re going to pull everyone up with them. And I was fortunate to have such a person on my team, in my business, 15 years ago that I brought in from basically a college professor.
I gave a donation to his foundation and he referred his best student to me. Boy, this guy was really awesome and he really moved and shook things up and he was very creative, he was very ambitious and he was very driven and it elevated the whole team up. So that can be a very, very useful thing.
I completely agree with you. We all worry so much about turnover and too much turnover can be a challenge, but not enough turnover can also be a huge challenge. We get comfortable in what we’re doing. If you’re a CEO listening, is your team too comfortable? How do you shake it up? And something that I had to deal with, I had to know too, when it was time for me to move out of the role that I was in and that somebody different needed to come in and be the president, CEO, pick whatever title you want. The agency’s been around for, I think, 26 years, I know more than 25 years. That’s probably too long for one CEO. So when is it that you bring in the next person to help? And that goes right back to the foundation of Marshall Goldsmith’s What Got You Here Won’t Get You There to go through.
Yeah, and sometimes, a lot of people say private equity is you’re just focusing on EBITDA and they fire a bunch of people. But I do think that sometimes private equity is really helpful because a company gets stale, maybe the founder already fulfilled their vision and then you need the fresh energy, someone to come in and have another vision and climb another mountain. And then you can keep rejuvenating these companies and they can actually grow faster that way.
Absolutely. I mean, look at Bill Gates stepped aside and brought other people in. There’s tons and tons of examples. What I say is focus on what you really enjoy doing, not what you think you have to do. So many founders think we have to stay in a specific role. I’m not a detailed person. I’m not a great day-to-day person. So you got to go back to the chemistry. And the difficult part of that is that we have to include ourselves in that formula as CEOs, chairs, founders, whatever it might be, because I’ve dealt with, and I’m sure you have too, Steve, companies where it’s the CEO founder that is the biggest obstacle to growth going forward. So you need to evaluate. Those are always fun conversations, but it’s the truth.
Yeah. I like to say that the bottleneck is always at the top of the barrel.
Very good. I like that. Yeah.
All right. So, I mean, you are a good example of stepping out and letting someone else come in and take things forward from there. That’s very impressive, actually. You did that with at least two companies that I saw on LinkedIn. There’s a software company, the AI company that you founded, and then this Off Madison Avenue, which is an advertising agency. So how did you know that it was the right time to move on? And was this a difficult thing to do, or it was kind of something that you yearned to do it and you kind of intentionally got yourself to the point where you could do this at some point?
Well, there’s a lot to that question, so I’ll try to keep it simple. First of all, my own coaches helped me realize that, my own business coaches. I am also a member of and have been very involved in the global leadership of an organization called EO, Entrepreneurs Organization. So I am part of a forum in EO with other CEO’s, CEO forums. I’ve traveled the world with the organization meeting entrepreneurs around the world. And so I learned a lot from them. Some of them had done it. So I learned from that. Now I will tell you the first time I did it, I completely screwed it up and made a total mess of it because I brought a person in to run and they started on Monday. And on Tuesday, I was like, I’m out, good luck, which was about the stupidest thing I could do.
Anytime you do that, you have to ensure there’s a good transition. I would say at least a year transition with kind of stepping down, going forward. So the first time after, about four months, I lost three of the six leadership team members because the new guy was so bad. Then the new guy, he technically quit, but he knew his days were numbered to go forward and then I had to rebuild. The second time I did it, I did much better, but not great. I hired somebody within and they did a very good job to a point. And then I realized that what got you here helped us get to the next step, won’t get you there. And it took me too long to make a change to the person that I have in now, again, because I got complacent and it was easy.
And then it wasn’t. And the third time, we’re only about more than six months now in, and it’s going fabulous where we had a transition. I did bring somebody in from the outside. I had a transition schedule. I did extensive interviewing, cultural stuff. We use culture index a lot. So, a lot of that we went through and the new person in a matter of six months has made such a significant difference. Now I just wake up and go, well, why didn’t you do that 18 months ago? So it’s there, but it’s a live and learn and you know where you’re going from there.
Yeah. And what’s important is that you did it and now you are on to your next thing. So that brings me to the question of your book. You wrote a book which is titled Leader is Not a Title, but it’s a very cute way of saying you’re a leader and then you have to look really closely to read what’s the subtitle? Is not a title. Okay.
Yeah.
So it is the title, but it’s not the title. So tell me a little bit about why you thought it was important to say this and what is the message? What is the outcome that you are trying to foster with this book?
Yeah. Great. Thank you for asking. So I wrote the book actually back in 2019. And as a thank you for the compliments about it, it’s less than 100 pages. It’s not a long book at all. If you read the intro, you will say that there is no earth shattering, groundbreaking new research on this. What I just basically did was take my learnings, my experiences that I had personally and that I had seen so many of my fellow EO members go through and broke it down to a simple leadership guide that we can use for newer people coming into leadership. It’s a great refresher for people coming into leadership.
But the basic message is, as we’ve seen people go through our organization, they’re always so focused, well, what’s my title gonna be? I’m gonna be assistant vice president. I’m gonna be a vice president. I’m gonna be executive vice president. And I’m like, what’s the difference between all of those? None. You can be christened with a title, but it doesn’t mean you have any more influence. On Monday, you get a promotion and a new title than you have on Tuesday. Leadership is about, first of all, you’ll read in the book, leadership equals influence. That’s all that it is. If you can’t influence people, you’re not really a leader. You just have a title. And how do you influence people? We influence through motivation. How do we motivate people to do what we need them to do for the good of the organization and then the good for themselves?
That’s where my helping people and companies thrive comes together here, is motivating people. How do you motivate people? You motivate every single person differently. There’s no manual on blonde-haired people, gray-haired people, you motivate this way. You have to get to learn the people. But think about your organization’s people that have no significant title, but have huge influence in the organization that can help protect your culture, help do other things because people respect them, they listen to them, they know that they’re trustworthy, they know they have integrity. And I’ve had some leaders I’ve worked with that lacked all of those, but thought they were pretty big crap because they had a title.
Yeah, I’m with you. I mean, leadership is all about leading people. It’s not about the authority. It’s about the influence. And for the people to know that you have their best interest at heart, so you’re worth following. Because you are leading them to somewhere good that you want to get to. It’s huge.
Absolutely. I agree. One of my favorite quotes, John Maxwell, is before you can lead others, you have to lead yourself. And I believe that’s a big part of leadership. Just take a minute and think, okay, if I’m a leader, what do I want in the leader that I have? Integrity, motivation, they care about me. Level five of John Maxwell’s stuff is, it’s about creating other leaders. You are a level four, level five leader when you are creating other leaders because you know those leaders will help the overall company go forward. So, if you follow John Maxwell, your focus should be on developing leaders because that, by naturally, will allow the organization to achieve what it needs to.
Yeah. And I guess this is what you’re doing by coaching leaders. You are developing them. You’re using this force multiplier effect where you are creating leaders who are going to create great organizations and who are going to help a lot of people be successful. That’s pretty awesome. So, I have a question about your previous life still, which is being an entrepreneur. Maybe it’s your current life because you haven’t sold your businesses as well. What is the hardest decision that you ever had to make in your businesses?
That’s a great question. The first hardest decision I ever had to make was when to hire the first person, because now, I’m responsible for another human being and their family and whatever. You can always deal with if you’re not getting a paycheck or whatever, but once you hire that first person, you’re committed. So that was a long time ago, but that was the big one. For me, the hardest part is still on the people side as you’re a growing organization and you need to have the difficult conversations with, you’re a great person, you’re valued here, we appreciate your loyalty.
This day and age too, sometimes people cap out at salary levels and other things too, where you just have to have the tough conversations of how much they’re appreciated and valued, but the what got you here won’t get you there. Now, I’m not in any way saying that you always have to replace somebody, but if people don’t have the right learn and grow mindset that you asked me about early on. Sometimes people just cap out at where they are and those are the toughest conversations if you like the person. Sometimes it’s just time for a change because people, attitude, they think they’re entitled, whatever, just being blunt, those need to change. But the people conversations are always going to be the hardest.
Yeah, and I see some entrepreneurs who have this idea that they want to make the company their second family, and then at some point, they hit the ceiling because they realize that, well, there’s a difference because I won’t be able to grow this company if I keep all the family members here. And in a family, you obviously cannot fire family members, but in a business, it can be counterproductive and you tolerate people that don’t fit anymore and then it can backfire.
100% you are. That family mentality, while I understand it, can also be a real challenge to people, as your organization evolves and grow. And again, there’s probably a place for them. It’s just maybe not what they want, what they expect, the title they want, the salary they want, but that’s where you need to make those tough conversations. And it’s even more challenging when there’s family members in the business or family businesses or other things that makes it even more difficult. But you gotta have them or you gotta bring somebody in like me. I’m consulting with a company right now and I just went and did a leadership training and there were 19 people in the room. I’m like, this is your leadership team?
And they were like, yeah. And the mentality when I asked later on was, well, such and such has been with us for so long. So just as they kept adding people, you can’t have a leadership team of 19 people. You just can’t get it done. You can tier it. You can, you know, executive committee, senior leadership, you can go down. But to have 19 people on your leadership team because you don’t want to have the tough conversation of you’re no longer part of this team is going to hamper their growth.
Well, sometimes they want you as the coach to have this conversation. I had a client that merged because it was kind of a veterinary horse. It was a family business founded by the father and then the son was a very talented guy. He also founded his own business and both businesses became successful. And then, at some point, they went to merge it and the father wanted the son to take over, but not just yet. So we had this situation where there were 18 people on the leadership team or everyone came on the leadership team who was in either company and we basically had to use this process of coaching them to whittle it down over time. So there were other issues. But yeah, I agree with you. Big teams can be really, really challenging to do, but sometimes you have to do it because no one else will.
You’re exactly right, Steve. 100% they bring us in to be the bad guys to do that. The consultant said, we need to do this. It’s happened over and over again. Or the same situation of this person’s been there 20 years, and they were the director of operations when the company was doing two and a half million dollars. And now it’s doing 10 million. It’s probably not the right person to continue to be doing the operations. You need somebody who’s taken a company from 10 to 50 million to get where you need to go.
Absolutely. So, David, if someone would like to learn more about your approach, read your book, check out your businesses, where should they go and where can they learn about you and from you?
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Steve. Well, first of all, the book is on Amazon, Leader is Not a Title by David W. Anderson. I also have a website, my personal website for my coaching, my speaking board of directors, which is dwa@dwaleadership.com. The W is my middle name. So dwa@dwaleadership.com. You can reach me there. There’s a bunch of information about me. There’s a “Contact Me.” You can find me on LinkedIn. Also there’s a few David Anderson’s in this world. So, look for David Anderson, DWA Leadership, Off Madison Ave in Arizona. You can find me that way through the search on LinkedIn.
Yeah. So definitely check out David’s website, dwaleadership.com and check out his LinkedIn page as well. There are good posts that you can read there and learn about the businesses. So, David, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom about coaching and building high performing teams on this show. And those of you listening, if you enjoy this conversation, then you know that every Monday, we’ll have a new episode. So make sure that you subscribe to us on YouTube, you follow us on LinkedIn, on Apple Podcasts to give us a review and stay tuned because we bring great guests every time. So thanks for coming and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* David’s LinkedIn * Off Madison Avenue website * Lighthouse PE * Leader is not a Title by David W. Anderson
https://youtu.be/ogf58Yalix8Dr. Sharon Spano, Executive Coach, Business Strategist, and author of The Pursuit of Time and Money, is driven by a mission to help leaders realize their fullest potential and elevate their impact across business, family, and community.
We learn about Sharon’s journey helping high-performing leaders navigate stress, growth, and transformation through The Awareness Elevation Framework. By guiding them to witness themselves, build awareness, observe patterns, and shift behaviors, Sharon empowers deeper personal and professional growth. In this episode, Sharon unpacks the 12 stages of adult development and reveals why many leaders plateau early—despite external success. We explore how awareness creates lasting change, and how the “emptiness of success” often mirrors one’s inner relationship with time, money, and life.
—Become a Self-Aware Leader with Dr. Sharon SpanoGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And I have today Dr. Sharon Spano, Executive Coach and Business Strategist, and the author of The Pursuit of Time and Money. As my guest, Sharon, thanks for joining me on the show.
Thank you so much for having me, Steve. I am looking forward to this.
Yeah, I am very curious about what you’re bringing to the table. You have some original ideas on executive coaching and business strategy. But let’s start with my favorite question. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your practice?
Well, that’s a very big question. The “Why” is all about helping people realize their fullest potential. And the reason that it’s so important to me is because I have seen just so much damage across the country and across the world from individuals who have been under poor leadership. And I really believe that leadership is just a very important part of our economy and how businesses are run. And so anything that I can do, the primary focus is to help leaders as I’ve moved into this other stage of my career, really help them discover and uncover some of the things that are holding them back, even though they may be successful. I find there’s always something more that they’re looking for so that they can be better leaders for themselves, their families and their businesses.
Yeah, I think it’s such an overlooked idea that leaders are multipliers. And when you coach a leader and you make them better, then you improve the quality of not just the family, but their employees and the employees, and they are happier then they’re going to help the customers and their family. So it’s a real force multiplier that you do when you coach your leaders the right way. So this podcast is a podcast of frameworks, and I’m always after frameworks, as you know. So I’m wondering about your framework that you could share with us. We talked about a three-stage transition framework for entrepreneurs. I don’t know if that’s the right title for it. Can you talk a little bit about this framework?
I operate, as most of us do, I think, from many frameworks. The primary framework that I use is grounded in human development because I believe that’s a very important part of how we become more effective leaders. Many people don’t understand that the stages of human development are exactly that opportunity. But if we wanted to boil it down to some of the things that you and I talked about, we talked about being able to witness oneself, have that awareness of awareness, and then to look at how to leverage opportunities for growth so that if something is going on in your life, for instance, it might feel like it’s very, very challenging, it is actually an opportunity to move into another stage of development. And then to look at what is the best option to get there, because sometimes, we’re not able to do that on our own.
We need other people to walk alongside of us. And that’s why I believe the coaching profession has grown in the way that it has is that as people are experiencing more and more stress and not understanding what that means in their lives or how to move through it, they often need a professional and sometimes it’s therapy, sometimes it’s just an executive level coach to help walk alongside them as they move through whatever’s going on in their life.
Okay, so is there a framework that you could talk about to help people actually visualize what they need to do exactly? So are there like a three or four step approach that would help people think about, okay, I need to become a better leader. How do I do this? How do I put one foot in front of the other? And how do I start in this process to getting there?
Yeah. I think the first thing is to look at the patterns in your organizational system and also the patterns that you’re seeing within yourself, because those are the flags that tell us there’s something more that needs to be done here. And then to me, the second one is what I alluded to earlier is that to understand there are 12 stages of human development as we know of them today based on research.
The average person in the workforce is at stage four or five so that tells you there’s a great opportunity for growth there. You don’t necessarily have to know about the stages but to know that there is an opportunity for growth. We’re not just stuck at where we are based on our age or even our career choices or outcomes. So to know there are stages, there’s opportunity for growth. Look at the patterns first. And then where is it that I need to grow? Once I look at the patterns, that should give me some clues that, okay, maybe it’s in my interpersonal skills, maybe it’s in my moral capacity, maybe I’m feeling that emptiness of success that I often talk about, So I need some spiritual development. We look at six lines of spiritual development in my work as well. And then to develop the awareness.
And that in my work is teaching people how to witness themselves in the moment, which takes some practice and why you need someone to walk alongside you through that process, so that I can really see myself in the moment and the kinds of things that I’m doing. Most of that is at a subconscious level. So when I develop the awareness of awareness, then the final piece is I am able to make different or healthier choices once I have that deeper understanding of what it is that I’m about and what it is that I’m doing that is working for me versus what’s not working for me.
Okay, that’s really interesting. So let’s unpack this for a moment. So one of the things that you talk about is witnessing yourself. So how does a person witness themselves?
We don’t do that. So, let me tell you how it looks for most of us, and then I’ll tell you how you learn to do it. Most of us have an awareness, let’s say, after the fact. Let’s say we get impatient in a meeting with one of our employees or a superior even. And then after the fact, we recollect, oh my gosh, I can’t believe I did that again. And we feel bad. We go into regret or remorse or shame or whatever. The process of learning to witness yourself is a very high level skill. And it’s about really expanding consciousness. So what I do with clients is we develop obviously a full program, but then within that context I have practices that are customized that I write for each one, each client specific to whatever’s going on with them and the topic and objectives that we’ve agreed upon.
So I might, for instance, if I have a client, here’s a good example. If I have a client who’s very intense, as I did some years ago, that she was in marketing and the boss said, I’m going to fire her because she’s got her nose in every department’s business and she’s too aggressive and she was just a big personality. So we got to the root of what that was about for her. And then like her very first practice as an example was I asked her to just observe herself throughout the course of the day, one or two moments where she kind of felt herself getting intense. But I didn’t have her do that in the heat of the day in meetings, that would have been too much. I had her notice, how does she get her kids up for school in the morning? How does she load the dishwasher? How does she talk to her husband?
And what she started to see, it came back to me that even the very first week was, oh my God, I’m so intense all day long. I’m so high strung everywhere I go. And then we built upon those observations, eventually moving into the meeting space where she started to see how domineering and aggressive she was at every meeting. And then typically once someone starts to witness themselves in the moment, they’re able to make those changes in the moment. Eventually, they stop those behaviors altogether once they realize that it no longer serves them or the people around them.
Okay, that’s really interesting. So just go through the day and if you have identified something or someone helped you identify something that is maybe holding you back, then you just stop yourself and say, okay, what am I doing here? Am I exhibiting this? And why I might be doing it? That’s fascinating. And then basically, you create the awareness and self-awareness and then you can do something about it.
And that’s an oversimplification even as I’m stating it because again most people do not have awareness of their behavior as problematic. I find at least with most of my clients that we tend to think it’s the other guy’s fault because basically the way we are wired as human beings is what we call a first-person perspective. I’m only able to see my point of view. So, it takes a lot of work to expand consciousness to where I can have a second, third, fourth, even fifth-person perspective and see beyond my own point of view. But that is part of the developmental trajectory and why this work is so important and so different because we’re not just coaching for goals. We’re coaching for developmental growth, which is a completely different approach.
Yeah, I love that. So people witness themselves, then you help create the awareness, and then how do they actually get going from there? What is the process? Let’s say I realize I’m intense, I’m packing the dishwasher, I’m slamming some plates in, and I’m kind of very curt with my wife. I realize, oh, wow, I should not be doing this. How do I get out of this habit?
Well, a lot of times, once you have awareness, I always say awareness is the first opportunity for change. So with my clients, I’m not even suggesting or dictating the change. I’m just helping them. I’m creating the container for them to witness. And then we work through it. They report the patterns back to me. And in reporting the patterns, they start to change automatically. If there’s areas where there’s trauma, and often there is trauma in the background, then we have to do another layer of work to deal with that trauma. And there’s many different ways that I do that because all of my work is trauma-informed. But if they’re on their own and trying, they’re only going to probably get so far.
Because again, if you don’t have a trained professional that can see what you’re not able to see and hear what you’re not able to hear, you’re only going to go so far. So I like to think of the developmental stages, the 12 of them, like a mountain, even though it’s not a hierarchy in the traditional sense. If you imagine stage one is a baby in a crib and all that baby can see is their fist and they don’t even know it’s their own fist for a long time. But as you expand consciousness, you have, let’s say now you’re at the top of that mountain, and imagine on a clear day you can see seven states from there. You have a much broader awareness and a much broader understanding. We know that people do not move into the later stages of development unless they do a significant amount of work, and it can take probably anywhere from a year to two years to move to a later stage. The idea, Steve, is not necessarily to move to a later stage, but to live the most robust experience of life at whatever stage you’re at.
I find most often if people, for instance, entrepreneurs often fall at what we call the achiever stage, where they’re chasing time and money and all the accolades and all the things that all of us as entrepreneurs even look for, then as they move on, sometimes that’s where that emptiness of success comes in is now I have all that, but what does it really mean? And I’m working extra hard to keep the machine running and I’m feeling very sad or anxious or depressed. Often that means they’re leaning into another stage and they’re wanting something different or more. And that’s where I think they’re wise to seek out a developmental coach or if they have severe trauma in the background, which many do, then even more extreme measures depending on the nature of the trauma.
Okay. So that’s very interesting. So basically there are 12 stages of development and to expand consciousness.
Yes.
And then you are on a certain stage, you’re not aware where you are, but with coaching you can figure that out. And then your solution may just be to have a more robust life in whatever stage you are. You become aware of what you’re missing at later stages. So you want to get to the next stage and then you want to work on this. But it’s kind of optional whether some people want to go there, some people don’t want to go there.
Yeah, and the other thing that we say about stage development that I think is important to understand is that we say everything transcends and includes, means it goes with us. So even that shadow side of us, that dark side of us, if we’re not doing the work, we might advance to another stage, but we’re bringing all that dark side with us. So, we want to do that work around those elements that are not serving us so that as we advance, we’re healthier. And I like to compare it to an infant because we’ve all been infants or been around infants. And so when we talk about development, I always say, easiest way to think about it is a baby does not forget to crawl when they learn to walk, when he or she learns to walk. They just crawl less and less often. So we bring everything along with us as we advance, good, bad, and ugly. The point is to perhaps do something that allows us to bring more of the healthier side along.
So why would someone not want to advance to the next stage or to higher stages? What would be the good reason for that?
Well, there is no real reason not to want to advance. I think that the thing is that most people don’t even know about the stages. So they hit a wall in their career or their life. Maybe they go through a divorce or something happens and this is when I get them, they think, oh my God, my life is over. Something terrible is going on and I’m a failure. And it’s like, no, no, this moment, sometimes we grow the most through our suffering or through the negative events ‘cause we learn if we’re looking, we grow when we look to make meaning out of what has happened to us. And that’s, again, sometimes where we need a professional because all we can see is, oh my gosh, this terrible thing has happened to me.
I’ve lost a bunch of money or my wife left me or my kids are on drugs or whatever. The stages are just a way that we talk about the expansion of awareness and consciousness, meaning I understand things differently. And there’s a great amount of peace that comes into being in the later stages because you have more wisdom, you have more patience, you have more compassion, more love, if you’ve done the work to get rid of that shadow side of yourself.
Yeah, no, no, I get it. And I’m just reading a book and it talks about the friction that you need to have in order to be able to work on yourself. If you have a very easy life, then you have no raw material to work with. It’s a fascinating topic. But what I’m curious about is that they’ve worked with you, they realize that they’re at a certain stage, they have the awareness, you help them find the awareness of it, and now they are aware that there are other stages. Why would someone not want to get there? That’s kind of what I’m wondering.
Yeah. I’ve not met anyone that once they know about the stages, don’t want to get there, and even if they don’t know about the stages, they want something more in their lives. They’re trying to figure out what that more is or how to get that more even if they know it. I don’t think it’s a question of not wanting to. I think it’s a question of not knowing that human development is available to us. I mean, here’s how I think about it, Steve. It wasn’t that long ago that we used to think people didn’t develop or mature beyond the age of 21. And we were basing that on the frontal cortex of the brain, because that is about that.
It’s a little different for men than women, but that’s when that frontal cortex fully develops in the human brain. But if you think about it, that’s really kind of ridiculous. Because we continue to have all these life experiences after 21. So we’re going to either grow or we’re going to regress. And people that get stuck in the earlier stages, I mean like the adolescent stages, what we refer to as the pre-conventional or conventional stages, they are often so traumatized, or there might be a drug addiction, for instance, that keeps them kind of stuck developmentally. Our prisons are full, unfortunately, of human beings. When I wrote the book on the pursuit of time and money, I did it looking through the lens of the stages. And we know that people in the earlier stages, they don’t have the ability, literally do not have the ability to see the ramifications of their actions in terms of time and money.
It’s instant gratification kind of thing. And so that alone, if you’re having trouble with time and money, that’s something to look at, to tell you there’s an opportunity for growth there. Because as you mature, you should be able to see further out in terms of time. I should be able to see, well, if I do this, this is going to impact me the next five, ten years. And also with respect to my use and appreciation and responsibility around money.
Okay, so we’re going to talk in 30 seconds about your book, The Pursuit of Time and Money, but I’d like to just ask a final question on what you mentioned about the emptiness of success. So why do people get to feel the emptiness of success and how does that connect to the pursuit of time and money? And then also please share with us why you decided to write this book.
I decided to write it because what I saw with my clients was people either had a lot of time and no money or a lot of money and no time because they were working so much. So I was curious about that. So the emptiness of success comes to what I mentioned earlier is you acquire a lot, particularly the achiever stage. That’s what that stage is all about. As I said, your entrepreneurs land. Expert stages before that, it’s not necessarily directly correlated, but we see a lot of people like your financial advisors, engineers, people of that nature in that stage before the achiever. But often they just get to a point where they have all the degrees, the clients, the money, the house, the cars, all of that.
And then again, something is missing. And so I wanted to explore that through the lens of developmental stages in time and money. And we saw very interesting things in that early research. And one of the most interesting was that moderate scarcity and moderate abundance looked the same in terms of the things people were saying and doing. The difference was that the moderate scarcity, they were making fear-based decisions rather than sensible decisions for the future or whatever. So it’s very complicated and hard to talk about in a few seconds, but I hope I answered your question there.
Yeah. So basically, they feel like they achieved the success they set out to achieve, but it doesn’t feel as good as they thought it would feel because it’s just not enough to have the money, but you also have to have meaning and there are lots of layers there. So tell me a little bit about the book, The Pursuit of Time and Money. How does it help people? So, let’s say I reach this, I feel this emptiness, I’m financially abundant, but I don’t have friends, or I don’t have good relationships or I don’t know why I’m doing this in the first place. Whatever it is, what does it do for me if I read this book? How is it going to change me?
Well, what I did in the book was I made the correlation between the abstract and concrete nature of time and money. We don’t talk about the two of them and how really intertwined they are often. But what I found was that people have issues with time, they often have issues with money. So we did some work around that, and then I break it down into the stages and how each stage, there were categories that came out of the initial research, and we kind of help helping people see, for instance, generosity is one but each of the stages look at generosity differently. What is responsibility look like? And then I have reflective practices at the end of each chapter so you can really start to look at, well, how is this showing up for me? Another aspect that was very important in the book was giving people a chance to understand that how you use your time and money in relation to the people in your life really tells them how you value them. Am I giving my children my time? Am I hoarding my money?
For instance, we had a gentleman that came, he was moderate scarcity, which was a great example in that he was doing the right things, saving for retirement for him and his wife, but he was so worried about retirement, which was like 30, 40 years out, I can’t remember exactly that he wouldn’t even take his kids on vacation or to Disneyland. And they lived in the Disneyland LA, Southern California area, which to me is missing the point. If you’re making those kinds of fear-based decisions and you’re not even enjoying your life, you’re saving for something. That’s a good thing, but maybe for many of the wrong reasons. So those were some of the things that we looked at in the book.
The other thing, Steve, I want to say for your listeners is that we have developed a moderate quiz because the way we look at where people are in terms of their stages is very complicated. The assessment is complicated and it’s quite expensive. So I developed a quiz that looks at the six major stages that most people in the workforce are in. And it also has input in the report around your propensity for time and money use and experiences. They can go to that or we’ll have also your podcast and everything on a specific page on my website. And that is sharonspano.com/managementblueprint. And if they go there, they can take that quiz and also the podcast that you and I are doing today will be there as well.
Okay, fantastic. So we’ve got it already in place. We’re going to put it on the show notes as well, so people can just click on it and find it, but definitely through your website as well. So, let me ask you kind of more of a general question, which is not connected to your work directly, but you’ve worked with a lot of entrepreneurs and you see how they operate and what are the good decisions, the bad decisions they make. What do you consider the most important question for any entrepreneur to ask themselves?
Well, that’s a great question. I think, because again, everything I do is so customized and dependent on what’s going on with the individual. But maybe it’s about asking, am I being the most effective leader/human being that I could be? Meaning not just in my business or my work, but for my family, because I see that disconnect every day. And it’s a great concern to me that we are losing families for the sake of our businesses. And I would like to see high impact leaders be well-rounded and that their life is integrated in such a way. I’m not one that believes in work-life balance, but integrated in such a way that they’re fulfilled in every area of their life is integrated in such a way.
I’m not one that believes in work-life balance, but integrated in such a way that they’re fulfilled in every area of their life. So if you’re not feeling that, like I run into a lot of people who are, they don’t know how to connect with their kids now. And we literally, like, I don’t have a relationship with my children. Well, then that’s an area that we might focus on in our work together if that’s something the client wants. So I don’t think you have to sacrifice your family for your business, I guess is what I’m saying. And if it feels that way, then maybe some things need to be recalibrated.
Yeah. I always felt like it’s the easy thing to just focus on a single thing and neglect everything else. That’s kind of a cop-out. Because of course we can be better than others if you’re just simply focused on one thing. But life is more of a marathon than a sprint and you have to keep more plates in the air to have long-term success, which is very difficult. So before we wrap this up, Sharon, I’d like you to just run through the 12 stages of development. So what are the 12 stages?
The names of them? Okay, well.
Yeah, whatever short way you can.
I mean, that’s a very big question because there are many. The first one is like Conformis, there’s Expert, Achiever, then we go into Pluralist, there’s Construct Aware, that’s not all of them. And then there’s Illumined. I mean, I don’t remember them all, but the ones I’m focusing on most of the time are Expert, Achiever, Pluralist, and Construct Aware. The earlier stages are babies. That’s the very, very early stages from like infancy to adolescence, the first four. And then from there on, it’s kind of anyone could be anywhere as adults. But the final two, we don’t really have people in the workforce that we know of that’s like 1%. Think of like the Dalai Lama or someone like that, way up there. Jesus might be way up there.
Construct Aware is about 5% of the population as we know now based on the research. And I did have a client years ago that was a pluralist. She was an attorney, which surprised me. So each one has different perspectives and things that matter to them, which is what I go on in the book. So for instance, with money, again, I mentioned the Achiever is chasing money. But when someone gets into the later stages, like Construct Aware, where the 5% of the population are, it’s more about they think of money at that stage as in service to humanity. So they want less, want less toys, jewelry, they’re going to be more of a minimalist and thinking more about the greater good. One is not wrong or better than the other, it’s just different.
Yeah. So it feels like it’s all about the consciousness of the person growing over time. And first, you’re just a conformist. I mean, I can see in companies, people join in the company and they don’t experience and they just want to follow blueprints. They want to be told what to do and be accepted that they are doing what they need to do. And then as they develop their expertise, then they develop more autonomy. And over time, they start to manage people and then they start to lead people and then they have to think about the bigger context of the organization as the ranks and the CEO is thinking about the annual plan. And then maybe an entrepreneur that has multiple businesses, they are thinking about the industry and the impact and then you become a statesman, then you can think about the generations and stuff like that.
But you can still be at those levels thinking of all those things and still be at an early stage. That’s the interesting piece is that often the earlier stages are more concrete in their thinking. Like I’ve seen this in the United States right now. I believe our leadership for the country is very concrete, achiever stage, and not necessarily thinking about the rippling effect of actions on the global. They’re not able to think globally, where people in the later stages are much more likely to be abstract thinkers and have consciousness and understand the rippling effect of one action on many, many others versus just what I want. So it’s very interesting because I think it’s happening around the world. It’s almost a backlash.
We’re moving into more autocratic leadership, which is seemingly more egocentric and concrete in nature than what you might see of someone who years ago we used to talk about teal organizations and they were organizations that were the opposite of autocratic. They would be more flat, less hierarchical, more input from the masses kind of thing. So who knows where all this is going to land, but my job is one person at a time because I feel like if I can help one leader be more effective in his role as a leader, but also in his personal life, then the rippling effect of that is generations because we know now from the field of epigenetics that trauma is generational. So if I can help be an interruption to that, I feel like it’s worth the effort.
Yeah, we have to make the difference that we are positioned to make and make the most of what we have. So I totally agree with you. And it’s just a fascinating topic and we could take this to different directions and make it much bigger. So I love the frameworks that you shared about witnessing yourself and creating the awareness and observing the patterns and working through some trauma potentially and make some changes in our lives and try to get to the higher level of consciousness and development. So if you would like to learn more about Dr. Sharon Spano, then check out her website and her LinkedIn page. So Sharon, can you share your website?
Yeah, it’s easy. It’s just my name, sharonspano.com. And then for the assessment that I mentioned, it would be /managementblueprint specific to this. I’m going back to your first question, just quickly would say that quiz, we’re looking at the center of gravity, meaning the higher percentage of which stage you’re in. But we also give you a report that shows you all of them of the six, not all 12. And it tells you specific things that you could do for the other two that you are also, ‘cause you’re never just in one, but you are, you do have a center of gravity. So, it gives an opportunity to take that first part of the framework and develop some awareness.
That’s awesome. So, definitely check it out. sharonspano.com/managementblueprint. That’s that’s easy. And check out the six stages where you are, what you can do. And if you want to do further work, then reach out to Sharon on LinkedIn or through our website. Well, thank you very much, Sharon, for coming and sharing your wisdom on the development stages and witnessing ourselves and creating more awareness of becoming a better leader. And if you enjoyed the show, then stay tuned because every week we have a great entrepreneur or subject matter expert sharing the knowledge that can help you as a business owner. So thanks for coming and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Dr. Sharon’s LinkedIn * Dr. Sharon’s website * Dr. Sharon’s Assessment Quiz
https://youtu.be/RaLbPGZBOEUSeth Tillotson, CEO and Founder of Your Business Consultation, is driven by a mission to empower everyday professionals to become confident entrepreneurs and business owners.
We learn how Seth’s journey—from launching service businesses to helping others transition from 9–5 roles—inspired his purpose. He shares his framework, The 7 Profit Improvement Areas, which helps entrepreneurs uncover hidden revenue and boost profitability by focusing on: Lead Generation, Conversion Rates, Closing Rate, Client Retention, Increasing Average Sale, Increasing Sale Frequency, and Cost Reduction. He also explains how to use squeeze pages to accelerate conversions, outlines the Captivate–Fascinate–Educate–Close method, and discusses how entrepreneurs can avoid the trap of staying busy instead of being effective.
—6 Figures to Your Profit in 60 Minutes with Seth TillotsonGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Seth Tillotson, the CEO and founder of Your Business Consultation, and an investor in multiple retail-oriented businesses. Seth, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Steve. I’m excited to be here.
All right. So you’re a very young entrepreneur to be on the show in general, but that’s great because you’re bringing a different perspective, you’re bringing a different energy, and you have certainly big ambitions and already a good track record. So, tell me a little bit about your personal ”Why,” what is driving you, and how are you manifesting it in your business?
Sure. So, my personal “Why,” it comes from a feeling that I got. I’ll tell you a specific story. The first time that I helped somebody transition from a nine to five employee to their own business owner. So, I, at one point, owned a booth rental hair salon and I encouraged everybody to have their own business as they rented the space from me. I came across a young lady who was timid and shy working a nine to five that wasn’t really being treated the best at that salon. And so I said, you know what, if you come over and rent a booth, then I’ll sit down with you for as long as it takes and we’ll set up the whole LLC, get your registration, EIN, taxes, all that fun stuff, insurance, all of it. It took about four hours, but by the end of it, I could tell that she was feeling confident in having her own business and excited to have her own brand and be able to choose her own hours. If there was a specific service that she didn’t want to offer, she didn’t have to.
I had no rules other than to keep the space clean and sanitary, pay the rent on time, that’s it. So, about a year later, I had an interview with her and I sat down and asked, how’s it going? And just the glow from her eyes and the body language, everything, it’s so different. It was confident, it was inspiring. And the feeling that I got from doing that, from being a part of that transformation, the only thing that I can think of it is akin to when I was flying helicopters. And so, like the feeling of that freedom and the responsibility, I guess, it lit a fire in my soul. I’ll put it that way. And I knew then that this was one of my sole purposes, something that not only am I good at helping people with that transition and answering all their questions, but it’s something that I feel like I’m here to do.
Love it. That’s a very inspiring story. And I mean, hey, entrepreneurship can be life changing for sure. It probably is life changing. Now, not all the time for the better, but it’s definitely if you embrace it, then it can make your life much more autonomous and rewarding. So, you started offering this service and, in fact, on your LinkedIn page and website you talk about a 60-minute conversation with an entrepreneur and you basically look at seven different areas in their business and you offer to identify at least six figures of profit improvement, which is quite a bold claim. So, tell me a little bit about how that works. What are those areas and how can you do that in 60 minutes? How can you even scan all those areas in the business?
Sure. So I’ll go over the seven key areas in business that increase your profits when you pay attention to them. The first one here is lead generation. So how much are you getting qualified leads for your business? And then that turns into how much of those are converting. So second one is conversion rates, and that’s getting an appointment or a proposal together or something like that. And from there, how much of those appointments are you closing? So, if there is closing rates, and that’s converting those into paying clients. Once you’ve converted them into paying clients, now you have those clients you want to keep them. So fourth one is client retention. Maximizing a lifetime value of a client or a customer, that’s really the only metric that you need to scale the business. So then you’re gonna be able to know how much you can spend on acquiring that client if you know the lifetime value. The fifth one is the average value of your sales.
Something as simple as increasing your prices by 5%. It’s instant and it gives you a lot more revenue to work with in most cases. Six would be increasing your sale frequency. So, if you do have a returning client or customer, maybe you can increase the amount of times that they purchase within a year. And last but not least, definitely, is cost reduction. Identify all the areas that you could automate or combine services into one that you’re paying for and reducing those costs is generally the first step, even though it’s the seventh on the list.
Yeah, I mean, cost cutting is easy, but it doesn’t grow revenues. So it’s kind of a defensive step. But nevertheless, some businesses, they have to start there because bleeding money is the worst thing that can happen to them. Okay, so what I’m curious about is really 60 minutes enough to cover all these areas and do you have some specific questions that allow you to be able to investigate all these areas in a short time?
Sure. So I claim the 60 minutes as the exploring these different areas. But before the 60 minutes, I usually do 30 minutes of actually getting to know the business owner and their business, where they’re at, and just digging deeper into their “Why” and their number one goal, where they’re trying to get with the business. So in total, it would be 90 minutes would be what it would take. As far as exploring all the key areas, I currently have 22 strategies in those different areas. And within 60 minutes, I usually get to around three or four of them. And by the time the three or four of them are projected and implemented, it’s above six figures.
So you don’t even have to go through all of them?
Right, exactly. And it’s more of a focus on one at a time. So if I’m working with our clients, obviously, we’re not going to overwhelm anybody here because business ownership is already overwhelming. We’ll focus on one strategy at a time and maybe get through four of them in a year, but that’s also because we take time to look at what’s working and what’s not working and we quickly pivot the strategy if it’s not working.
So let’s start with lead generation. So what are the like the top most obvious or most popular ways or what you have found works the best, lead generation for small business?
Sure, so lead generation, it kind of closely correlates to the other key areas around there. Lead generation into conversion rate. The quickest or the easiest way to get lead generation is to offer something of value up front for free. For instance, on my website, I have my Revenue Revolution. It’s a free ebook, you can download it, but you got to put your email in at least. So that’s the quickest, easiest way to set up any sort of gathering information on getting emails, phone numbers for lead generation.
You find this works for any type of business? This information like an e-book?
So far, yes. And I won’t say it always works. You might have to explore other ways to do it. Some creative ways, or I’ll give you an example of a creative way that I’ve done it recently, just going on to a social media, like I’ve been on threads, and instead of trying to post a bunch of content, I just follow other people’s posts and comment on those. And again, you have to offer something of value. So I definitely believe in giving without the expectation to receive. So if I go on business threads and somebody’s asking a question, well, how do I start an LLC, then I’ll just tell them right there, step by step.
Yeah, and there’s more where this comes from kind of thing. Yeah, I like it. What about conversion rate? What’s the obvious way to improve that?
What you’re going to want with conversion is, first of all, you need to captivate. So you’ll need a headliner, something that touches on a pain point or sparks an emotion. And then the second step is fascinate. So your subheader then would be explaining the solution of that pain point and then educate them on it. So that could be a video sales letter or something of that sort. The best method that I would say is when you’re driving traffic to your website, instead of landing them on the homepage or on a product page, develop a squeeze page, something in between that has all of those elements that captivates them so they click on it, fascinates them with a simple, quick solution to their problem, and then educates them on how your unique proposition can be valuable to them. And then obviously at the end, you got to close them and book an appointment or call, something like that, download our ebook, anything really. That’s the best method that I’ve found for conversions.
So does it actually work against someone if they have a full-fledged website?
No, it actually works better than the website.
Yeah, so a website is kind of counterproductive because people stop meandering in different direction.
Yeah. Let me put it this way. A website is like having a brochure and a squeeze page is like having like an advertisement, an educational advertisement. The point of it too is to differentiate yourself from the rest of your competition in the market to what makes you unique. Everybody’s got a website. And most of the time when I go on a website, if I can’t immediately see what the offer is in the first few seconds, that’s a problem. People need to be able to know, can you solve their problem? Well, first of all, you know what their problem is and then you know how to solve it quickly or affordably or in a unique way that a system that you’ve developed or something nobody’s done before. And then obviously they’re going to need to know about you and what you do to build that trust and credibility too. So you got to educate them on that.
So the squeeze page forces them through a certain sequence of reading or watching?
No, it would be like if you had an advertisement or if you were just posting content on your social media and you have a link, instead of sending them to your website homepage, then it sends them to a page that’s only available through that link. So like you wouldn’t be able to get to the squeeze page from your website. Your website still exists, so if they want to go educate further and look at the website, then they sure can. But the squeeze page takes the information that’s on that website and brings it to the closing or converting sequence that captivating them, fascinating them, educating, and then closing. It’s not for somebody who’s already trying to research your business.
That would be what the website’s for, but usually websites don’t offer enough information for somebody to decide right then and there to schedule an appointment. It might have a list of services, but it doesn’t specify a particular pain point or get them to have the emotion that they need to take the next step. We’re emotional beings and we don’t usually make decisions like purchasing or setting an appointment based on logic. It’s more on how we feel. So that’s the whole point of the squeeze page.
Yeah. Okay. That’s very good. It’s great that you explained it because I’ve been aware of squeeze pages, I’ve even used them, but no one explained it to me in such a clear terms of how it’s different from a website and how does it work. And it’s almost like having a conversation with another person through that squeeze page and letting them influence you basically.
Yeah. And that’s the whole point of what the video sales letter would be. So in the whole page, it would be nothing but you have your footer at the bottom, your copyright for the business, but it’s just a video and then maybe a button to schedule on your calendar, just links to your Calendly or other scheduler. There’s nothing else on there to distract them from it. It’s just going to say, is this your problem? Do you need this solution? Listen to this five minutes and I’ll give you 10% off the service if you decide to take this path. Something like that.
What’s the right way to collect emails? Is it before they watch the video? So is it the first thing that when they come on to request their email? Or you basically give them the spiel and then if they want to sign up, then they click on the email? How does it work?
So, the squeeze page would be separate from any email marketing. The point of the squeeze page is to two for one. So you capture the lead, but you’re already qualified that lead and turned it into a booking or an appointment or a proposal by that time. So instead of having like a qualifications caller or somebody reaching out, it would skip all of that. So by the time that they already booked an appointment, you’ve educated them on the service, you’ve qualified that they have this problem, otherwise they wouldn’t be booking.
Do you recommend people to regularly create multiple screen pages for different approaches?
Yes, and you should have a customer or client profile, like super specific, like your ideal client, what are they wearing? What do they eat? What do their daily habits look like? What are they listening to? What movies do they watch? All that stuff like you should know your customer. And then, say you have four different particular pain points and solution to those, you could have four different squeeze pages for that four different advertisements running. Another reason for that is also the touch points. It takes on average 20 to 100 touch points of somebody seeing your logo or your service or hearing about you somewhere in order for them to be interested enough to take a step into booking appointments or purchasing a product. Using the Captivate, Fascinate, Educate and Close method brings that down to between 4 to 20 touch points because now you’re taking them wherever they are on their buyer’s journey, and you’re moving them along. So maybe they didn’t know that this service existed before. Now they know that it exists, and they know that you offer a solution to their particular problem.
So captivate, fascinate, educate, and impose? That’s the sequence? Okay.
It’s a conversion formula.
In the past, I knew what AIDA, Attention, Interest, Desire and Action. That kind of sounds a little bit similar.
Yep. That’s pretty much the same thing.
Same thing just with a different acronym. Yeah. Okay. So let’s talk about something else. Let’s talk about your entrepreneurial ventures and your story as a business owner. What was the hardest decision yet you’ve ever had to make in your business or your businesses?
Probably just sell, to sell early. When I purchased Cut and Style, the hair salon, I’d purchased it with my ex-wife and then getting divorced, having to take care of that brick-and-mortar business. Plus, I was also managing as a managing member for nine other real estate companies as well. It became quite a bit at that time, it was Tillotson Construction Company as well. I was trying to show, from real world experience, from nothing to actual business operating, my cousin how to do it. He was a roofer and a sider, good at things like that. So I said, okay, well, I’ll help you walk through doing that as well. And all of it together, I was working 16 hours a day, at least. I mean, few hours of sleep every night. It was unsustainable. You can’t do it. And because of that, the businesses started to suffer. I couldn’t focus enough on areas that I needed to, that my laundry list of items to do was way too long.
Even if I hired somebody to help me with it, I don’t even think we could have gotten it done. So deciding to sell it early instead of the 15-year exit plan, it became a little over two years, but it did end up selling to one of the renters there. I didn’t make a profit off of the actual valuation of the business, but what I did make during owning it, I would consider that a profitable sale, but yeah, it was difficult because to want to run a good business where the people who you service are happy and you’ve helped them solve a problem and to do it with integrity and honesty, accountability and respect to everybody. Watching it suffer, I think was the hardest part of that.
Yeah, it’s a big responsibility to be a business owner. It’s not just an opportunity, it’s a responsibility as well. And if someone doesn’t take that seriously, then it can cause a lot of damage to people. And yeah, not everyone feels conscientious about this, but I’m glad you do. Okay, so as an entrepreneur, what would be your advice for other entrepreneurs? What’s the most important question you have to ask yourself every now and then?
The one question you have to ask yourself, am I working on the right thing? That would be it. So oftentimes, you get caught up in busy work, you don’t move the needle. It’ll get you stuck at a revenue cap or you’re not generating any more leads or clients, customers. So you should focus on high impact activities. It’s the Pareto Principle. The 20% of what you do results in 80% of your total revenue. So, focus on those key areas and keep the business moving forward.
Yeah, love it. Well, that’s a very good answer. It’s very easy to get busy and not to be effective. Don’t confuse busyness with business.
Yeah, work on the business, not in the business.
That’s right. As Michael Gerber would say. All right, well, Seth, so you are the founder of Your Business Consultation. You have the seven area audit for businesses to add six figures within 60 minutes to their business. So if people would like to take advantage of this offer and get your views and your insights on their business so that they can improve it, where should they go and how can they find you?
Yeah, so I’m active on most social media, LinkedIn and Instagram. You can follow me there @SethTillotson. You can Google me, it’ll show up on there. And if you would like to look at the 22 strategies, free ebook is at yourbusinessconsultation.com. So just head over there and like I said, I’ll capture your email. So that’s my lead gen, but for sure, these strategies, they’re free in the ebook. I don’t believe in gatekeeping. And if you are engaging with me on social media or shoot me a message anywhere that I have an account, I will answer questions and do my best to help out.
Well, that’s awesome. I mean, who wouldn’t want six figures to their profit within 60 minutes? It’s a pretty good ROI on time invested. So go to yourbusinessconsultation.com and check out Seth Tillotson’s profile and reach out to him. So Seth, thanks for coming and bringing your perspectives. And if you are out there listening and enjoying this episode, please like us and follow us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, wherever you’re getting your podcasts. Give us a review and keep coming back because every Monday we have an exciting entrepreneur or other thought leader come and share their business frameworks with us. Thank you for coming, Seth, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Seth’s LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/seth-tillotson/ * Seth’s website
https://youtu.be/mU9NriTiVAMAndrew Amann, CEO and Co-founder of NineTwoThree Studio, is driven by a passion for building great products and embracing the entrepreneurial journey alongside his team and clients.
We learn about Andrew’s journey as a founder and his philosophy of finding joy in the process. He introduces The AI Operating System, a practical framework that helps companies adopt AI with clarity and speed. The system begins by building an internal knowledge base, then moves into deploying simple AI agents to automate repetitive tasks, and culminates in managing these agents through a Super-Agent that orchestrates workflows and interacts with external systems using natural language.
—Build Your AI Operating System with Andrew AmannGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Andrew Amann, the CEO and co-founder of NineTwoThree Studio, an AI consulting agency, building products for funded startups and established brands such as Consumer Reports, NPR, and Experian. Andrew, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Steve. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Great to have you. And I will start with my favorite question as always, what is your personal “Why,” Andrew, and how are you manifesting it in your business?
Sure, so we’ve been at this for 12 years, and I believe that many entrepreneurs would answer that question depending on the year that they’re in. As you grow, my personal”Why” originally was to build the biggest company to be on the tallest building in Boston and to have the logo basically replace Fenway Park. And that dream has has sailed. I don’t think I’m interested in that anymore. It seems aspirational and I think necessary when you’re starting a company to have those levels of aspirations and dreams because you have to run through things that most people wouldn’t and you have to achieve things that most people would give up on.
So the journey of entrepreneurship, I’ve discovered that my “Why” is to be part of the journey. I’ve read a lot of books recently, basically around the philosophy of the process of like Siddhartha is a great example, or The Alchemist, or even Life of Pi. That’s been my last year of inner research about what I want to be when I grow up. And what I discovered in all three of those books is the journey is what matters, the story is what matters, and the process of success, the process part is what matters. And many entrepreneurial friends, they sell their business and they lose that aspect of their lives because they forget that the process was what was fun.
The ability to learn, the ability to grow, and the ability to be part of the team is what I truly admire. So when I was asked this question in a CEO group, they said, Andrew, what do you want to do next? I said, I kind of want to do the same thing I’m doing now. And they said, well, who do you wanna work with? And I said, the teammates that I currently have. And they said, well, what type of clients do you want? And I said, the clients we currently have. And so I think my “Why” is just kind of living in the moment, being part of the process, being successful, but also supporting the teammates that we have so that they can be prosperous, that they can find their purpose. They can be great problem solvers, but they can also be great providers for their family. And so my “Why” is to support that journey and that process that we’re going through right now.
Wow. Okay. Well, you look very young for having such a wise “Why,” but it’s good. You shortcut the process. I do agree that the journey is the destination, perhaps. It definitely is very important. And as an investment banker, I can testify that sometimes you saw businesses for people and then they fall into depression because they lost their identity. They didn’t know how to recreate the success that they were having along the way. And so that’s pretty awesome. So having said that, you are in a very highly evolving area, which is AI. You’ve worked very actively in AI. I mean, you do other stuff as well. But we talked about AI on our pre-call and I was very intrigued by the framework that you’ve developed around what you call the AI Operating System. So what is an AI Operating System and how do you get one in your company?
Sure. So I come from a supply chain background. I built nuclear submarines for the first five years of my life. And when you build for the government, you have to learn processes, but you also have to learn throughput. One of my favorite books of all time is The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt. And it’s just a phenomenal book that teaches you about throughout and bottlenecks and relieving those bottlenecks to get to the next step so that you can ultimately achieve the profit. So with AI, we’ve been at this for eight years now. We’ve been developing a process and a strategy of how to implement AI into businesses.
What we’ve discovered is that CEOs are very scared of deploying something new, something that they don’t know and something that their friends or CEO friends are not doing the same way that they are. It was very easy to say, let’s move to the cloud because it had such a promising effect on the company that they could work from anywhere. The cloud would store all the data, they wouldn’t have to worry about servers going down. And all of their friends are moving to the clouds, all the other CEOs are moving to the cloud. So it was a transition that I think a lot of organizations took upon, whether it was Microsoft or Amazon, it didn’t matter. The movement to the cloud mattered. From our standpoint, AI is not so simple. AI becomes a very individualistic goal. It is something that your IP or your company has this fingerprint around, and you’re trying to AI that, which means it’s something different from your friends. It’s different from other companies. It’s a different organization.
And because everybody’s fingerprint is different, everybody’s adoption of AI is going to be different. But we’ve created a process of a workflow that you go through, we call it, you start with exploration, which is free, where you come through us and you try to figure out exactly what you’re trying to solve for. We then go through what we call product strategy and engineering discovery. And what that specifically does is diagnose what the problem is inside of the company and what the return on investment would be if we solve that problem. Now, I’ve been kind of making fun of Deloitte and Accenture for the last year because those two companies have this strategy session as well. It costs a million dollars, and they have great success with it. I’m not touting them for their success because a lot of companies see the value in hiring those types of consultants. What I am kind of knocking on is that to find value with AI should not take more than one or two months. The return on investments that we’re seeing are in the seven figures or even eight figures with a $200,000 investment. And AI changes the game for that initial discovery phase for what I call the strategy sessions. Because within a month, we should not only be able to determine what the ROI is, we should be very accurate with that. Because when AI is deployed properly, it either decreases costs or increased revenues. And we’ve seen that two dozen times in a row at this point. And we have the track record to prove that.
But the process should point out that once you solve for the KPIs, or once you’re trying to determine what the ROI is of this investment, it is now a system that you put in place to develop or implement that solution. It is no longer a what if, let’s test these three avenues. AI allows you to prototype, experiment, and deploy much quicker to get those results. So we like to say that every project we’ve worked on in the last, I would say, six to seven months has been less than four months of effort to get to a production release. We don’t build MVPs anymore, we don’t build prototypes, we build first production releases that get people into the system, working with it, testing it, and most importantly, seeing what the return on investment truly is based on the estimate. And if we achieve that return on investment, well, there’s more money to be had to keep building AI solutions. So everybody wins.
Okay, so let’s unpack this. So what does it mean to find the ROI? Give me an example of a project that you had kind of a hypothesis or an initial idea, and then you tested it and it showed an ROI and then you scaled it up. What does it look like?
Sure. So we had a consulting firm that worked for legal, it was a legal consulting firm. They help lawyers and paralegals determine what documentation and what information went into whether it’s prison reports or people that were sentenced to prison. We were able to double the revenues of that company and reduce the costs by about 90%. Now, when that happens, you’re basically allowing individuals to work the same way they did before. Nobody was fired. Everybody’s still supporting the initial goal, but they’re creating more revenue with the efforts they’re putting in. They’re also doubling down on what they’re good at, and they’re removing their waste. So, when an AI solution comes in, it allows all the consultants on the team, or a lot of the people that are doing the research to start getting this energy around what a new process looks like when built upon AI. And so this specific company, I mean, they have seen great success from not just the product itself, but from the time it takes to build the report.
Okay. So can you be more specific? What is it that they do differently with these reports? And how did you cut the cost by 90% if you kept everyone on the payroll? How is that even possible? What kind of costs could you eliminate?
Yeah, so the process that works very well with AI is when you’re looking at research or you’re looking at information of how a person is just looking at thesis paper or college kid looking through a thesis paper, it takes a lot of time to gather all of the links and the resources needed to write that thesis paper. And so let’s say it takes 10 hours to gather the information, another 10 hours or five hours to start writing that outline, then another few hours to take that outline and turn it into segments. And then finally, the writing of the thesis paper is your accumulation of all of that knowledge into one final paper. All of those steps can now be almost replaced by AI, except for the final writing piece. That piece in which the individual needs to take the knowledge that they’ve retrieved and make something new out of it.
That is where AI does not have a great success factor. It hallucinates. It doesn’t know what the human is trying to draw out of the research. And that’s where humans are so good. We can connect dots that don’t seemingly need to be connected, and we can make that connection. I mean, Malcolm Gladwell is phenomenal at connecting two unknown dots and then making you believe that that’s the truth. I’m not saying that he’s falsifying it, but he’s doing a great job at analogies and summarizing how things relate to each other. And humans are really good at that. But the cost of research, the cost of outlining, the cost of brief, that goes to the AI. So you’re reducing the cost of needing to do that aspect of it. All of the employees are still doing the human aspect of it, which is reporting the information necessary back to the client or the legal client and saying, this is what we found.
This is what the research told us. And instead of taking 20, 30, 40 hours to do that, you can do that in one hour. And so, you’re creating revenue, and the cost of performing those reports just goes from 20 hours or 30 hours down to one. More importantly, you can do 10, 20, 30, 40 reports where you used to be able to do two a week. And so that’s how the costs go down. It’s not that it’s like fabricated costs. Those costs would have existed if you got 40 on your desk, but they don’t exist because you have time to take on 40 new reports that you never did before.
Yeah. So, so essentially the cost per project goes down by 90%.
That’s right.
The actual cost of the company doesn’t, it stays the same perhaps.
That’s right.
And the revenue increases dramatically.
That’s right. I mean, cost is always a determination of it’s a ratio. COGS or operation expense, it’s always a ratio of revenue. So as you increase your revenue, as a team draws in more, you’re moving the bottleneck from the operations to the very end, which is the sales. And so, if sales is the limiting factor of how many reports you can do, well, no longer is that the case because the number of reports you can do, the throughput is much higher. So you can increase sales and have the same amount of throughput or increased throughput.
Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So that’s a really great way as a certain processes, AI can essentially streamline it, save a lot of time and let people do the stuff that only people can do for now, which is synthesizing, perhaps, certain concepts. So what are the types of AI solutions that you can deploy? So this is definitely creating research is one type. In our pre-call, we talked about AI agents, we talked about orchestration. So what kind of approaches there are big picture for AI deployment that someone could consider.
Yeah, there’s really three areas and they build on each other of where AI is going. The third one is not talked about much and we’ll get there in a second. But the first one is every company has a cadence, an IP, a knowledge base, a place in which they spend most of their time, whether it’s on Google Drive, sharing documents, trading information back and forth, communicating in Slack, all of that creates what we call culture, company culture. And Microsoft’s culture is very different than HubSpot’s culture. In fact, HubSpot has a glossary of three letter abbreviations that I don’t even know what 90% of them mean. But if you work at HubSpot, you surely do. And there are many cadences and there’s many cultures that have differences between their competitors. And what’s important about that is that it’s documentable, it’s proceduralized, and it’s also very, if you get hired into one and you move to another, you might not fit, even though you’re in the same industry. And what I’m trying to point out is that that culture and that cadence is an IP.
And every company has one, and they’ve been drilling for years and years and years, what they’re very specifically good at. They’re good at customer service. They’re maybe the cheapest price out there. Maybe they’re very good at how they relate to their clients. Maybe they go on site and they do certain consulting things. Maybe it’s a SAS product or maybe it’s a dropshipping and they’re the best dropshippers because they have two day delivery. Each one of those matters and that is why a knowledge base is the first place that AI should be built for every single one of these companies. When Amazon heard about large language models, guess what they did?
They built an internal large language model that only Amazon employees can use so that when you’re writing an email, you can say, what are the 900 emails that were similar to the one I’m trying to write internally for Amazon? Not around the world, not competitors, not other SaaS products. Internally on Amazon, what were the 900 emails related to how I wanted to ask for a new hire to get a promotion? That’s a very Amazon way of asking. They have a different promotion plan than most companies do. So to train that knowledge base on your internal IP and your company is the first step that every company should be doing. Now, Co-Pilot and Google Workspace are trying to enter into this space, and I would still argue that if you’re really interested in building AI, you need a consulting firm to come in and help you organize this the right way, because otherwise you’re just going to be what Google wants or what Microsoft wants. But that is 100% the first step. Once you have that knowledge base secured, you now can go to the second aspect, which is the agents.
You can deploy agents to do things like chat. You can deploy them to do invoice reconciliation. Or you can do, which our favorite is, workflow automation. When somebody passes documents from one person to the next, there’s an opportunity to reduce that workflow and either approve it or validate it or disapprove it or not allow it, whatever word you want to use to reduce the back and forth paperwork that humans have inside of companies. So agents can be deployed, they can have specific tasks, they can perform different functions, and that becomes your second introduction to AI. And it doesn’t work unless you have a knowledge base to relate back to. Like if you just deployed an agent, it’s not going to know how to act or how to perform or when to stop or when to misbehave or when to not behave or behave. So that agent thing becomes your second wave. Now the third one is where we’re heading. And that is when companies communicate to other companies through a large language model or through what we’re calling natural language.
No longer are APIs going to be the plumbing of the internet. Natural language is going to communicate between two pieces of software. So not just engineers can ask a question, but anybody in the organization can ask a question about their software. What is the invoice related to? How many orders are coming on plane 72 so I can get the shipments out the door? What is my cadence for understanding the exact processes of what I’m trying to do right now? What are the steps needed for me to do process A, B, and C? That is when I have to communicate with software, other systems, or even competitors. And as a product manager, designer, finance, HR, or developer, natural language or English should be the code of this plumbing line. And that’s what everybody’s building. That’s where we’re heading. That’s when a phone communicates to a laptop. That’s when your wife texts you, pick your kid up at six o’clock. And she doesn’t tell you the details, but it understands your calendar. It understands that every six o’clock ninja class happens and you need to go pick your kid up.
These things are coming down the pipeline and they’re coming fast and that only happens when a knowledge base is set up for either yourself or your company. Agents are deployed, which we’re calling MCP Service, but like basically these places are secure for agents to ask questions on your behalf and thirdly, for it to go outside the walled garden of your personal data and retrieve information for you.
Okay, so I’m trying to relate this to the use of ChatGPT, and maybe that’s not a good way to do it. But I’ve got a ChatGPT teams subscription, which is supposedly private. So what I do is, ChatGPT knows about me, knows what I do, knows the kinds of clients I’m working with, and understands some of the products I have. And then I basically ask it to do certain things. So I wonder if that’s similar to deploying agents. So now it knows my knowledge base. Maybe it’s not completely built out like it should be, but at some level it knows. So I can ask questions and then even create workflows. But the third step is to communicate with software, other competitors, and so on. I don’t understand exactly how that works. So what is the step between agents and this natural language communication? What is the missing step that needs to be breached to get there?
Sure, so in relationship to ChatGPT, the first thing that you’re doing is creating a knowledge base of things you know so that ChatGPT when it prompts back to you and retrieves the answers for you, it’s retrieving in context that you understand. So while you have a mini knowledge base and you’re putting information into a project or to Microsoft Co-Pilot, that knowledge base is what’s informing ChatGPT of the answer it should be giving. That’s step one. Step two is the agent that you are, like a web agent. When it crawls the Internet, that is an agent going out to crawl the web, looking at the first eight links of Google, grabbing information back and bringing that to you to say, hey, I searched the Internet for you and I found this answer.
That’s an agent. But you can also imagine an agent with your Excel documents. Maybe you put in a number of shipments every single month into column B2. Well, an agent can do that for you after the shipment is retrieved from your invoicing documents. So because it has a knowledge base and because it has a knowledge base and because it has information about your shipping reports and your books, you can write an agent to say every time we retrieve our shipments, go up to this Excel sheet and fill in the correct number. But it’s not just an API, it’s smart enough to know that a half a shipment matters and it should be 7.5. It’s smart enough to know that if you have a negative shipment, well, that also means that the stuff is on the way, it just hasn’t been fulfilled yet.
It’s basically an automation that I create that will do repetitive tasks.
That’s right, it’s automation to create, and any agent can do, there can be small agents, they can be teeny tiny to do something simple, and they could be massive agents, like a chatbot that answers customer queries. Those are the level of agents. And the third one is going outside your walled garden. The best example that I’ve given repeatedly is you’re standing on the corner, you’re at your house and you’re ready to go to the airport. You should be able to say, I would like a ride to the airport and I would like to stop and get maybe some deodorant or maybe you want to get a sandwich on the way to the airport. And I would also like to get there a little bit early so I can have a presentation. I can do a phone call from the lounge.
Now to do that, two things need to be happening that don’t happen right now. One is security and privacy. The other one is the ability for these agents to send information out discreetly on your behalf. In this scenario, the ultimate goal is that agent goes out and crawls Uber, locates an Uber car for you and brings it to your house at the specific time needed for you to go to the airport. The second one would be to understand the mapping system between your house and the airport to figure to stop at CVS and maybe just stop at a sandwich. Most importantly, a sandwich shop that you’ve been to before that you like, that you’ve said before you’ve enjoyed. And then lastly, to understand your calendar, gather the meeting that you’re trying to be in, make sure that you’re at the airport with plenty of time for you to get through security and to your meeting. That requires your agents to communicate with other servers that you don’t have privy to or information to, or maybe you have a login to Delta and maybe you have a login to get to their security and make sure you’re validated. But these agents need to have security when they go out, just like an API call has a secret key.
Those agents are going to have to go out and on your behalf, act on what you want them to do and securely keep your information away from prying marketers that then intercept that. And all of a sudden, Fluffy’s car service shows to pick you up. And if Fluffy’s car service shows up and you were expecting Uber, you’re not going to be a happy client. But what happened there is Fluffy’s car service decided that they had a better marketing team and they were able to intercept these agents and deliver cars all around the world. And that’s what can start happening if we don’t keep these things secure when they go out and make the requests on our behalf.
So that sounds like a lot of complexity. How far are we from these super agents that can use my personal information?
So on Google, it’s already here. It’s unfortunate that iPhone has such a large footprint in America because I don’t think people are realizing the advancements Google has made in the last two months on their Gemini platform. I, right now, can book a trip, I can play a song, I can just have Spotify playing in the background, which seem relatively general, but when you have a large language model that understands your calendar, Gmail, your text messages, and also your internal drive, like my personal drive, it knows information about me while I’m requesting in my voice assistant. And so Google has made these great advancements with what they call Gems in the last month. I imagine that we’re gonna see an Uber Gem, an Airbnb Gem, all of that is going to come into this Google ecosystem. And they’re three years ahead of Apple at this point, in my opinion.
Wow, that’s pretty crazy. Now, what about the security aspect of it? Because obviously, I mean, more and more, I tried to download something, it always asked me to confirm that I trust this company, it can use all my information, it has access to my email and all that stuff. And it’s very scary. Sometimes I say, no way, I’m not going to do that. It’s just feels too intimidating to do this. And then plus people are concerned about government listening in. How can this thing can grow without people being overly exposed to their information?
Yeah, so recently, we’ve always had this problem and we haven’t been able to name it, just like we weren’t able to name what Retrieval-Augmented Generation was. There was always these things that we were doing inside of our company, as we’re AI consultants, we build these models all the time. And we were doing exactly this, we just didn’t have a name for it. And recently, Claude, I believe, was the first to coin the phrase Model Context Protocol. It’s a standardized way for AI applications, which basically like think of large language models, that to interact with external tools and data sources. And they act as like a universal connector. So think of like a USB-C and a USB-C port. You have the USB-C port and you want to plug into Uber and Airbnb and the receiving end, and you need a USB-C receiver to plug into. Well, it secures your privacy. It secures your information.
It secures who you are and kind of tokenizes you. And so, then every time you want to use an Uber request, the large language model can use that Uber request securely to retrieve your information about your Uber and back to you. So it’s kind of the new plumbing that’s happening across the internet. That MTP server is becoming the terminology that we’re using of how that all works. It’s the plumbing of APIs for large language models.
Yeah. And so all I have to do is trust Google who owns all these products?
No, I’ve been speaking about this. I hope that companies like Perplexity or Claude are, they have the ability to get onto hardware. And so, right now, Google and Apple have a massive advantage because they have the hardware and the voice assistance built into those devices. So they, for sure, have a duopoly around where most people are going to be sharing their information. And Google already has been doing it for me for a few months now. I hope that Perplexity and Claude and even OpenAI comes out with hardware that I can select that piece of hardware where I maybe own end-to-end encryption about the device in my large language model so that I can control the data security. So that little checkbox that you’re saying when you ask for your calendar to be shared, maybe that checkbox is something that you truly can protect against and Google doesn’t just know about it anyways.
Yeah. I mean, even when companies request me to sign in through Google, I always think, okay, what is it going to leak from Google to this company? I’m giving some permission. Do I really understand exactly what permission I’m giving? It’s just a very uncomfortable situation.
Exactly. And I think that hopefully can be reversed because if you have all the information necessary on your phone through the large language model, hopefully we can call apps and retrieve like if I wanted to buy a toaster, I don’t need to go to Amazon to search toaster to find one. I should be able to search my voice assistant for the best toaster, decide that it’s on Amazon and click purchase and the agent should take care of the rest from there.
Okay. Well, brave new world. Definitely very exciting. So I love this clarity around building out the AI. So first, the knowledge base. Create your own knowledge base and train your own AI, and then deploy agents. So essentially automate all your repeatable processes so that you can save all the energy to bigger tasks. And then maybe leverage something like Gemini that will coordinate multiple of these agents, super agent kind of thing. Maybe I misunderstand it, but it feels to me that it’s kind of a coordination of multiple agents, it’s kind of the manager of the agent workforce that is going to be doing things for you and you just give them instructions. It’s essentially a delegate to this personal integrator, whatever you want to call it.
Exactly. No, you got it. That’s the process.
That’s, that’s awesome. Okay. So our time is coming to the end here. Let me ask you one more question here. So as an entrepreneur, it was very interesting how your “Why” evolved. You wanted this tallest building with the logo and now you really want to journey and to enjoy working with the great people and working on exciting projects. What do you feel is the most important question any entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
I think the obvious one to me now is the vocation. Like chasing money is one thing. But if you truly like what you do, you shouldn’t have to worry about the money because you should be able to find enough work in that area to be successful. So, there’s a lot of entrepreneur advice out there of chasing dropshipping or chasing different areas that are the hot topic of the day. And it seems like a quick way to make money. But if you truly can’t see yourself being there for 10, 20 years, it might not be worth the effort to go into a market like that. And I also would say the same thing about TAM, like if your total addressable market is just not that big, and it’s a little tiny market, it might not be advantageous for you to put all your energy into that.
I would look at your next 10 years or 20 years and figure out where do you really enjoy being, who do you enjoy talking to, who do you enjoy working with, and what type of work do you wanna do in 10 years, and then start learning in that direction. Because if you work the other way and chase the money, you’ll end up in an industry with all these skills that might not be fruitful for a long period of time. So I truly love what I do. So I’m in the camp of finding an area. I love consulting. I love being an apprentice. I love building products. And being a consultant is all three of those, especially an AI consultant. I think people should look at that first and figure out, all right, what would excite me in 10, 20 years? And is there a big enough market that I can make my million dollars in that area and work backwards and try to figure out how to learn to be in that vocation?
Yeah, I think it’s very smart, especially because if you were to choose for the money, then it’s gonna be really hard for you to be successful without not loving what you do.
Exactly right.
So it might not even work. I mean, maybe it’s not just the fleetingness of those areas. Maybe dropshipping is a fleeting thing. I don’t know. It’s a hype thing, but you can’t even get there without loving the stuff.
I agree.
Yeah, that’s cool. All right. Well, so Andrew, if people would like to build their own AI Operating System? Where can they find you and how can they get more information or get started?
Sure, so I’m on LinkedIn. I post once a day. You can message me there. I read all the comments. Andrew A-M-A-N-N, and my company is NineTwoThree. You can fill out a form if you’re interested in a project, but for the most part, following us is the best thing I can ask for.
Well, definitely go and follow Andrew Amann, check his posts and also get immersed in AI because it’s moving very fast and you’re gonna miss the boat if you don’t. And if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you follow us on YouTube and give us a review on Apple Podcasts and join next week when an exciting entrepreneur is going to bring a framework to us. So, thank you for coming, Andrew, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Andrew’s LinkedIn * NineTwoThree Studio Website
https://youtu.be/C5kwtxOjOx4Alistair Gordon, CEO of Expertunity, is driven by a mission to empower technical experts to reach their full potential by mastering enterprise skills that elevate their impact.
We learn about Alistair’s journey into expert development and his creation of The Expert-ship Model, a framework that helps technical professionals move beyond subject-matter expertise to become influential leaders within their organizations. The model outlines nine core capabilities across three domains: Technical, Relationship, and Value—ranging from solving complex problems and transferring knowledge to collaborating across teams, engaging stakeholders, understanding the business, and leading change.
—Supercharge Your Experts with Alistair GordonGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Alistair Gordon, who is the CEO of Expertunity, a new global enterprise dedicated to helping technical experts everywhere reach their full potential. Alistair, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you for the invite.
It’s great to have you and learn about this opportunity for experts, how to get them to reach their full potential. So, let’s start with your personal “Why,” your personal mission, and what are you doing to manifest it in your business?
So, over many years, I’ve worked for lots and lots of organizations, Steve, in many roles as a leader and as a consultant to lots of businesses. And mostly my prominence, if you like, is leadership development. Sort of topics that your podcast covers, very relevant and very familiar to me. But along the way, sort of 10 years or so ago, we discovered this large group of people who weren’t really being developed, technical experts most of your listeners will, I’m sure know one or other of these people, highly technical, they might be in finance, they might be in IT, whatever. And they’re technically brilliant, but they’re very stuck and frustrated, and not really fulfilling their potential and not necessarily having a fully fulfilling work life because they’re technically brilliant, but they’re missing some of what we call these enterprise skills that really help them add value at 2X, 3X to their organization. So having spotted the gap, we’ve done lots of research. We’ve worked with thousands and thousands of them now over the years and feel like we know them really well, Steve.
And the most fulfilling part of this is that once you show a technical expert how they can be a better expert, they attack it with military precision and they really lean into it. And both themselves and their families and the organizations they work for get just extraordinary benefits from them really leaning in and making the difference they know they can make.
And why do you think, Alistair, there is this gap? Is it not natural to not have the gap or is it the difference between the entrepreneur who develops a multifaceted approach to the expert who is more of in a silo and they just never got the chance to develop it. Why does that happen? Is this the corporate environment that takes care of it?
I mean, it’s absolutely the right question, Steve, from my perspective, because the answer is, as you might expect, multifaceted. So if we just look at it from the organizational perspective, most large organizations, even medium organizations, I know a lot of your listeners are, will have someone responsible for developing talent, but
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They even have a model called the 9-Box Grid, which most large organizations use to establish who is high potential talent and they are the people who get spent lots of money on them developing their skills and what have you. And the definition of potential for most organizations is the ability to lead more people in the future. So it’s people leadership orientated and what have you. And in a 9-Box Grid, they have this little box at the top left of the grid you can look it up on Google, 9-Box Grid, and you’ll see a box called technical experts. In some models, they call the box technical stars to make the technical experts feel a bit better. But basically, they’re very high performers, but they’re low potential because technical experts are not seen as potential future leaders. So, we work with those organizations closely to change their definition of potential and say it’s the potential to add more value they should be thinking about, in which case a lot of the technical experts move across into this sort of investment pool.
So, on the one hand, it’s the organizations. The talent team’s been given the mandate to find our next generation of leaders and that kind of excludes a lot of technical experts who don’t want to be people leaders. It’s not necessarily playing to their strengths. The experts themselves feel that the way to progress is to become even more expert and deeper and deeper experts. And that actually moves them further away, actually, from that sort of broad knowledge of their organization that they need in order to really deploy their technical expertise to the maximum extent.
Yeah, I can relate to this. I had a good friend of mine who was in computer programming and database architecture, and he kept moving to bigger and bigger companies. And at some point when he worked for IBM and Oracle, then he had to move and go to a bigger country where they would be able to pay for his expertise. And then he ended up with a very big company that went public. And that was his only way to increase his value was to work for bigger and bigger companies who serve bigger clients and with bigger value product to be able to get the leverage.
And I stayed where I was and I went into the leadership line because I realized that we were in the periphery and the only way to advance would be to generalize being more of an expert. So that’s very interesting. Very relatable. So, let’s talk about a framework that you developed, which you call The Expert-ship Model. What is this model and what is this designed to do?
Most organizations, larger organizations like your colleague went to, would have complex leadership capability frameworks. So, in other words, really a roadmap for people leaders as they grew through the organization. So there’d be the capabilities you need to have and master in order to be a frontline leader. And then the next one would be the capabilities you need to master to be a middle manager and then a general manager. And then, God at the end, as a CEO. The interesting thing is that we discovered is there’s no similar capability framework for technical experts.
They might have a capability expert, a capability framework specifically for their expertise, like project management or coding or what have you. But in general terms, how to be the best expert inside your organization. There was no roadmap or capability framework. So, we built this one. We decided to call it expert-ship rather than leadership because it is its own skill set in its own right. And the framework itself has nine capabilities. And these are the sort of capabilities that our research showed that the very best experts around the world have mastered all nine of these capabilities. Three of them, Steve, are what we call technical capabilities, which most experts are already very good at. But the other six are what we call enterprise skills. Occasionally, experts will call them soft skills. It’s not a good description. I’m on a personal mission to abolish this phrase from the vernacular because there’s nothing soft about these skills.
They’re quite difficult to learn and they have very high impact and so on. So we built this sort of roadmap and we use it to help organizations develop their experts and we work with experts themselves to assess where they’re already very strong in those capabilities and which capabilities are growth opportunities for them. And this helps generate a much more well-rounded technical expert,
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And it’s when they can have a foot very comfortably in both of those worlds where suddenly technical experts really can unleash their potential.So there are nine skills, there are three technical skills and six expertise skills. And I think you mentioned that there are within the expertise skills, there are value skills and there are relationship skills.
That’s correct. So there’s three domains of capability, if you like. Technical capability, so that’s their expert knowledge, it’s how they go about solutioning or finding solutions to problems, which, of course, technical experts spend a lot of their time doing. And also, knowledge transfer is in that technical skills. How good are they at explaining what’s happening technically and training other people to build up their skills. And then in the relationship domain, we’re talking about things like collaboration, personal impact and stakeholder engagement.
So, most technical experts, just to use the example of your colleague, which is a great one, Steve, by the time that person arrived in a large organization, he would have had a very complex stakeholder map. He’d have been working on multiple projects globally. He might’ve had a line manager somewhere, but I bet he had three or four other really critical stakeholders that all of whom he was aiming to deliver for simultaneously probably. So, stakeholder engagement skills, collaboration skills, the way you influence people, communicate with people, and understand what is driving them, what motivates them, what their objectives are and KPIs are. Those sorts of skills, most technical experts are pretty good at having conversations with other technical people, but they struggle when they start working with generalists. So, that’s a skill set that they’re partially good at generally. I’m making these generalizations from all the data that we’ve captured because we assess experts against this model all the time, hundreds and hundreds of them every quarter.
And so, we’ve got a lot of data that suggests that they’re very good with some stakeholder groups and not with others. And then the final one is the value domain, which is usually the black hole, Steve. It’s the business acumen market context,
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So in those three areas, that tends to be the biggest skill deficit for most technical experts. A CIO once said to me, Steve, that his team was very, very good at doing change to other people, but it wasn’t very good when change was being done to them. And my experience is that’s absolutely 100% true.Well, the Cobbler’s Sons are always bare feet. It’s kind of normal. But yeah, I mean, it sounds like it’s a very big program because expert knowledge, finding solutions, knowledge transfer, being able to do that and then collaborate and making a personal and big impact and selling your impact and then managing your stakeholders. And then business acumen, just one of nine. That is huge. And then understanding the market and the change. So this is an enormous lift. It’s almost like being an entrepreneur, like an intrapreneur training, that kind of thing.
Yeah, I think that’s a really good way of describing it because most technical experts are advisors to their organization. People sort of say, okay, well, how do we take cyber security as an example, which is obviously very topical at the moment. So, the organization is hiring people who are cyber experts and those people are supposed to develop systems and what have you that protect the assets and indeed the employees of the organizations they’re working for. But at the same time as while they’re doing that, they’re down usually, I mean in the weeds, Steve, because there’s a lot of detail involved in doing that. But at the same time, the organisation is saying, what do we need to do to do this properly? And those technical experts need to build a business case for the right sort of investment, tools, people, and software and so on.
And very often, they know what the organisation needs, but they’re not necessarily particularly good at articulating that to generalists. So they’re building an entrepreneurial case and getting the funds and resources needed to do that job properly. That’s the bit very often they’re missing and, by the way, frustrates them a lot. And yet ,all of those skills are, in my view, they’re easier to learn than the technical skills that’s their ticket to the game. But a lot of technical experts don’t see the enterprise skills as important. And as leaders, we’re partially responsible for that, I believe, because we tell them what a great technical job we’re doing, they’re doing, but when we see them engage and collaborate with a stakeholder, we don’t make a big fuss of that, and we should do, because that’s kind of the additional skill on top that makes all the difference.
Yeah, that’s interesting. And what about the personalities of these technical experts? Because often introverted people are the ones that gravitate toward expert-ship, and extroverted people, they want to communicate, they want to be out there and shake some trees and convince people, persuade people. So how do you get these experts out of their shells and motivate them to want to engage more and want to be more of a contextual person that collaborates?
It’s a great question. I’d say, I mean, we’ve now worked with thousands and thousands of experts and I’d say, again, just sort of thinking of the data, probably 75 to 80% are introverted, and some of those are very introverted. And I think you’re right. I do think the mentality of technical experts is very widely misunderstood by management and by senior leadership. They do operate in their technical bubble. It’s a safe space, Steve. That’s where they’re expert. When you’re a technical expert, your whole sheet is what you know at the end of the day. So I think they’re misunderstood because they can be perceived as negative.
281: Supercharge Your Experts with Alistair Gordon
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But they’re extremely good at seeing the downsides of suggestions first. And they tend to articulate these very articulately very early on. And a lot of your listeners will have had the experience at some stage or another in their careers, they’ll ask you, an IT person, what do you think of this idea? And the IT person will tell you 19 reasons why it won’t work. And then you might say, so you think it’s a bad idea. And then they’ll say, no, no, it’s a great idea. I just wanted you to understand how difficult it is going to be for me to execute it. So the answer to your question is we ask them to articulate what their challenges are and what their aspirations are, where they believe they can add extra value. And we help them work through what’s getting in the way of them being able to add that new value. The development is all about taking them to the next level of value creation at the end of the day. And once they’ve identified what the barriers are, some of which are management, for sure, but some of which are with their deficits in their skill set, then we work through a plan and say, right, what bits are you going to attack first? They’re generally very ambitious to add that extra value.
And once they see the value of developing some of their mastering, some of these additional enterprise skills, as I mentioned earlier on, they’re all terribly smart. So they’re very quick at being able to develop these skills. And to be honest with you, Steve, it’s an absolute professional joy to watch. And I just get a huge kick out of it, as my team do, because it’s amazing when you do something and you see the impact that you’re having. And this has impact, by the way, not just in their organizational settings, but so many people I’ve coached say it’s completely changed the way they operate and communicate with their family as well. And it really enriches their home life, not just their work life.
I can imagine. This makes them a much more multifaceted individual. One of the things that I was wondering, I mean, obviously you say that you bring these people out of their shells and they are eager, they know how to develop expertise and they realize that this is another level of expertise they can develop and they do it with gusto. But one thing that you said, which struck me, which was said that you can teach experts to be good with people at will. So can you elaborate on this idea that what does it take to make people good with other people at will?
I think one of the things that we learned very early on, Steve, is that you actually can’t teach a technical expert anything. You can’t be that sort of teacher and stand up there with a PowerPoint presentation and tell them, right, here’s how you should deal with people and here’s how you should say nice things to them and what have you. They have to want to be able to learn it themselves. They have to be able to see the payoff of putting the effort into it. Because most technical experts, because of the way I think we react to them as leaders sometimes, they think they’re just being more and more and more technical and having broader and broader technical scope, as your colleague did, is the way to go when in fact it’s adding a few additional skills that will be the case.
So most of the work that we do with technical experts is in group, and we ask them a lot of really difficult questions and challenge them to come up with incredibly insightful and smart answers. And of course, you can imagine they love this challenge, right? This is their whole sheet.
281: Supercharge Your Experts with Alistair Gordon
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And generally speaking, they want to have more influence. They want to have more impact. They’d like non-technical people to listen to them more and act upon their recommendations. And when you drill everything down fundamentally, that’s the difference they want to make. And so, from that starting point, so right, what’s getting in the way of it? So there’s a bit of self-assessment that goes on here. We have a self-assessment that any expert in the world can go to our website, expertship.com, and get their own self-report for free to figure out which of these nine capabilities they’re really good at and which are growth opportunities for them. But it definitely starts with saying, if you want to have more influence and impact and you’re currently not having that, what’s in the way? And I guess the one thing we do tell them is it’s not all management’s fault. It’s 50-50 here and yes, management need to think differently about your expertise and listen to you more, but you need to be very good to listen to. I’ve experienced a lot of experts when they get the chance to be in front of the CFO or the CEO, they completely mess it up by going into too much detail. And you see the CFO losing the will to live, Steve, with all this technical detail that the cyber experts going on about, I’m engaging with this learning. It’s that ability to help them probably build skills that maybe you and I have learned as through our leadership journey, which is versioning, figuring out what people actually want to know rather than what do we want to tell them and all of those sort of basic things that because experts have been so focused on building their technical skills, they’ve missed out on learning those things as they’ve gone along. So we’re helping them catch up.
Yeah, love it. Very interesting. So Alistair, you wrote a book, the title is Master Expert. So why did you write this book and what is your main message with this book?
Yeah, so I think we know we’re a relatively small company, although we have lots of very big clients, ironically, around the world. And we established that there’s 40 million technical experts, we think, in the world. And we think about 38 million of them need help. And we figured that we’re not going to be able to do that. So, the reason for writing the book was to say, well, people can’t necessarily attend our courses or afford that. And so, how do we get this message out to experts that this is an approach they might want to take? So the book is really a textbook and it’s structured in such a way that they can take our assessment for example and then figure out which chapters they really want to focus on and so on. You can imagine it goes through all nine of those capabilities. What does being an expert look like? What does master expert look like? What’s the difference? What skill sets do we need to master? How would an expert go about mastering them? What sort of actions would they take? What sort of people would they interface with and so on?
So if we take market expert, which the market context, I should say, which is the areas that you described earlier on, I mean, the business acumen piece and what have you is absolutely critical. You and I know as entrepreneurs and business leaders, we really need to understand what we’re doing and what our customers are doing and what our competitors are doing, what are those value propositions? How can we influence those value propositions so more people come to us? Those sorts of things are generally speaking, not things that most technical experts that have been on our courses are familiar with. So, in the chapters in the book around that, it’s like, how do you go about acquiring that knowledge? What sort of stakeholders do you need to start interfacing with? When you meet the CFO at a meeting, you don’t ask him or her, how are they? You have some very specific questions ready.
Most technical experts hate networking, Steve, because of the personality traits that they tend to have, being a bit more introverted. So we work very hard with experts to say, you’re not networking, you’re intelligence gathering. That’s the whole point. You suddenly got four minutes with a CFO. What questions are you going to ask that puts you on the map with that person, but also demonstrates that whichever technical team you’re representing is interested in financial performance, capital management, whatever the case may be? So, it’s that ability that the book is basically a manual for how to acquire these skills if you don’t have a coach or you can’t go on a formal programme.
Love it. So Alistair, if people would like to learn more, they want to read this book, they want to do the assessment, they want to maybe reach out to you, where can they find you?
Yeah, so I think the easiest thing to do is to go to expertship.com and on there they’ll find first and foremost this assessment that they can take if they want to. I mean, a lot of your listeners will be people leaders and entrepreneurs. A lot of them will probably have one or two technical experts. It struck me preparing for this interview, Steve, that the smaller businesses, it’s even more fraught finding the right technical expert. And then you’re likely to find a technical expert who needs this sort of development. So if you’re a people leader or a manager of an expert, you can buy them this book. And half of the book is online for free at expertship.com and there’s an assessment there. They can obviously reach out to us. We have coaches who are accredited in expert-ship around the world. So, if they need some coaching, which very often they do in terms of interpreting the assessment, then that’s easy for them to reach out to us. But a lot of value can just be leaning in, thinking about what’s getting in the way and using these tools, which are certainly the assessment tool is completely free, Steve, for anybody to figure out which areas have they got some skills deficits and how do they attack them.
Yeah. Okay. This is fascinating. So if you are a technical expert and you want to upgrade your skills so that the C-suite will listen to you and will want to promote you, or if you have some technical experts on your team that you would like to have a bigger impact or you want to have them have a bigger role so that they’re more energized, motivated for your business and you can allow you to keep them because these people always want to advance and they might go for a bigger company if you don’t look after them, then check out Master Expert, the book from Alistair Gordon and also expertship.com. Check out the evaluation, see where you land, and what are the next steps you need. So thank you Alistair. That was a very eye-opening interview and for those of you listening, if you found this interesting, then please follow us on YouTube and give us a review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for coming, Alistair, and thank you for listening.
Important links:* Alistair’s LinkedIn * Master Expert book * Expertunity website
https://youtu.be/8qOmMjL008YWant to become a more adaptable and effective leader? In this episode, Kevin Eikenberry—trainer, author, podcaster, and founder—shares powerful strategies from his latest book, Flexible Leadership. As a leadership expert dedicated to helping organizations, leaders, and individuals unlock their full potential, Kevin reveals how to flex your leadership style to navigate uncertainty, make smarter decisions, and empower your team.
—Flex Your Leadership with Kevin EikenberryGood day dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Kevin Eikenberry, a trainer, author, podcaster who’s empowering organizations, leaders, and individuals to fulfill their potential through transformative and effective learning strategies. Kevin, welcome to the show.
Steve, I’m glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Well, I was excited to have you because you have some really cool ideas about leadership and how to make it flexible, which is what the people need. I mean, it cannot be one size fits all solution. But let’s start with my favorite question which is, what is your personal ‘Why’ and how are you manifesting it in your practice?
Well, I am fortunate that my personal ‘Why’ is directly connected to our organizational ‘Why’. I suppose when the company has my name on it, that’s a privilege.
We are in the business of helping leaders to be more effective because we know that if leaders are more effective, we can make the world a better place.
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So ultimately, that’s our goal. As you introduced me, we talked about helping people reach their potential, and that means people as humans and leaders. If we can do that for leaders, then leaders can help unleash that in others.Yeah. So there’s a multiplication going on there and that’s a great opportunity, but also a great responsibility.
A Hundred percent, for sure. I mean, when I think about leadership in general, Steve, that I think about those two things, right? Leadership is a tremendous responsibility, right? If we’re a people leader, a capital L leader, we have positional power, people are watching us. We have the responsibility to make sure that what we’re doing is modeling what we want from others.
We have the responsibility of setting goals and outcomes that are desirable to reach.
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We have a responsibility to help our people get to those things and build their skills and confidence. All of that is our responsibility, and when we do those things, the opportunities that we have to make the world a better place, our organizations more effective, our team members more satisfied and more committed to their work. All comes with that, 100%.Love it. I love it. So, let’s talk about your brand of leadership, because you developed this concept of Flexible Leadership. So can you explain to our audience what you mean by Flexible Leadership? And then what is your framework around it? Because you also have a framework that you developed around it.
All of this is related to my new book, Flexible Leadership: navigate uncertainty and lead with confidence. And so let’s start here. What does it mean to be a flexible leader? To be a flexible leader is to be a both and leader. Too many folks think, well, I’m either this or I’m that. I’m either going to do this or I’m going to do that.
Leadership is about reaching valuable outcomes, or leadership is about developing the people that work for me. It's either about tasks or people, and I would suggest it's about both of those things.
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And if you think about the tree that you could see outside of a window or you could walk by on a path, that tree is stable and consistent and rooted, and it is also flexible. I’m looking out at a tree right now in the breeze, and it’s blowing in the breeze. So it is both consistent and flexible. Many people would say, well, am I supposed to be a flexible leader or a consistent leader? And so Steve, my point is being a flexible leader is being thinking both end, holding two ideas, intention, recognizing that either end of that tension is probably not always the right answer, even if that’s our natural tendency. And to be intentional about being able to flex to a place that allows us to help our team reach the outcomes we need in that moment, which might be different than what we would’ve done six weeks ago, six months ago, or whatever.Okay, so let’s dissect this because you talked in our pre-interview, you talked about Intention, Content, and Flexor. So how does that all come together? What do you mean by each one of these ideas?
Sure. So that is the Flexible Leadership approach, right?
Intention plus Context plus Flexors equals being a flexible leader.
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And so intention says, I’m willing to, I’m open to the fact that the ‘How’ of my leadership might need to change. That’s how I do it naturally, or my first inclination, or my style, or my habit might not always best serve us. So the intention is to recognize that, hey, number one, flexibility is useful and valuable.And number two, intention to say in this moment, perhaps I need to flex. It’s both a mindset and a skillset and the skillset comes from the other two components. But if we don’t have that mindset right, it doesn’t matter. I mean, I can teach you skills and you can say, those are fine and dandy, Kevin, but I’m not going to do ’em. They don’t match up with what I believe. They’re not what I believe will be most effective. I don’t think they’ll work. So get the mindset with intention, and then the next part is context. Let’s just say it this way, Steve. All of us have had this experience where you have a decision to make as a leader or just as a human, or someone comes to you for advice. And when they ask for it, or when you think about the situation, you say, well, what should I do? Well, it depends.
Well, what does it depend on? Well, it depends on the context. Like, what’s the nature of this situation? And it is understanding the nature of that context that gives us the chance to say, well, maybe I should do it differently. I’ll stop there. I’ve been talking for a long time. Anything you want to add or comment on before I go any further?
Yeah, I like this idea, the mindset that be ready to be flexible if you need to be, so that you can serve your purpose. And then the context service determines that. But can you give an example of different contexts and then the leader being manifesting differently?
Yeah, absolutely. So in the book, I share the work of Dave Snowden with what’s called the Cynefin Framework. And in the Cynefin Framework, it’s think about it like a map. Like, if I put you in the wilderness and I said, okay, get out, leave to this location. The first thing you’d ask me for is a map. I mean, the first thing a lot of people ask me for, is there a GPS on their phone? I say, well, there’s no cell signal. I say, okay, I’ll take a map. And the Cynefin Framework is like a map to help us see the terrain. In this thought experiment, once you see the terrain, it gives you a clue about which direction you should walk to your desired destination. And the Cynefin Framework is like that. It gives us a picture for us to help us see where are we now so we can decide where to go next or what to do next. So the Cynefin Framework has four parts. There are four parts to the framework, and one of those is called the clear context. And Steve, that’s the one that most of us are most comfortable in. Most of us have spent the most time in, and importantly, assume that we’re in most of the time. And the clear context is a situation where we sort of know the causes and effects. We sort of know what will happen. We’ve done it before.
Our expertise or someone’s expertise is enough and policies will work and best practices reign, and
if we've got the right process, we'll probably get the right result, clear context.
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And yet, as I just described that to you, well that sounds comfortable. You might say, well, that’s not where my work is a lot of the time. And I would say, yeah, more often than not, your work isn’t clear. Even if it might’ve been 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 5 years ago. Some of the time, our situations are that, but much more of our situations are either complicated or complex, and when things are complicated according to the map, the Cynefin Framework, when things are complicated, we know there are things we don’t know. Maybe we can find them out or get a clue about them. We probably can’t do it alone. We probably need to do it with others. We might be able to develop some good practices that might help us a lot of the time, but there are unknowns that we either need to try to figure out or at a minimum, we have to recognize. But a complex situation, well, a complex situation is the ones that we’re in a lot of the time. There are unknowns that we don’t even know about. Like anytime you think about a situation that happened six months ago and say, man, I wish I would’ve known all those things. I would’ve done something differently. I didn’t realize those dominoes were going to fall. There were going to be those unintended consequences. If I had known that, I’d have done something differently. And that’s an awful lot of our work today. And so if we find ourselves in that complicated or complex situation, the way we need to lead is different than when everything’s clear.
The fourth context is what’s called chaotic. And my observation is that a lot of people say, well, that’s where I’m at all the time. Kevin, it’s either clear or it’s chaotic. And I would say, and Snowden would say in the creation of this framework, that there’s very little that we live in. That’s chaos, truly. And even if it is, it very quickly becomes complex because when things are chaotic, we just need to do something. Think about where you live. It was about 5 years ago, Steve, as you and I were having this conversation, that we locked everything down and we sent people to work from home. At first, it was chaotic and we just needed a leader to tell us what to do. Here’s what we’re going to do first, but very quickly, it was no longer chaotic. It was actually highly complex. And yet, in many cases, leaders continued to act like it was chaos for a very long time with all sorts of consequences that people didn’t love. So that’s a very quick, very high level sort of look at the context. And what I have come to learn, Steve, is that the more we understand the context of our situation, the smarter we are, the wiser we are, perhaps, and that when we have this framework or this map that we can pull out and think about and look at, we put ourselves in a much better position to lead more effectively.
Okay, got it. So, we have to have the intention to be flexible. Then the context can be simple, it can be complex or chaotic or a mixture of those, right? And then you have this flexor. So what are these flexors, anyhow, I think you have 19 of them? And what do they do and how do they help you to navigate in these different contexts so that you can make and exert the right leadership?
Yeah. And so flexors is a word related to our muscles, but I took the word to describe what we’re about to talk about. So I’ve hinted at this already. When I said that we can have two things that may seem like they’re opposed, but they’re actually symbiotic. I said, are we trying to be consistent or are we trying to be flexible? While that’s not one of the 19 flexors, that’s a flexor, because the reality is it’s not one or the other, it’s both. It’s not either or it’s both ends. And so the question is how can we be like the tree? How can we be both consistent and flexible? And which direction on that flexor do we need to be leaning to be most successful in the context in which we’re living in that moment? And so, like you said, there are 19 of them in the book. And then I say in the book, okay, it’s really not about the 19. As you start to see this, you will see flexors everywhere, right?
You will see this idea that there’s a tension between two ideas, both of which have merit and value, but if we lean into one end of that or the other, we’ll likely have challenges or problems. The thing for us, as leaders, is that we have a natural tendency that’s probably or very possibly near one end or the other of one of those flexors. And so what we have to do is, intention says, oh, maybe I need to think about this differently. Context says, how should I think about it differently? And the flexor says, what do I do about that? So let’s just pick one, a simple one. Let’s call it the answering-asking flexor. So the answering-asking flexor is, should I answer people’s questions or should I ask more questions? And the answer is yes. The question is, when should I do more of one or the other? And all of you listening probably know of a leader that you think of, well, they’re on the answering end all the time. Like, you have a question, they’ve got an answer, they’re like the answer person. And at some point, that’s not serving them or you very well, right? Like the ends of the flexors aren’t usually the best answer.
The ends of the flexor are not very flexible.
Exactly. And so it’s about, where should I be leaning in this moment, with this person in this conversation for this decision to help us get better success? So intention. Yeah, it’s a good idea and it’s worth considering being flexible, in this situation, context, what does that tell me? And then where should I or how should I flex on one or more of these things based on that context?
Yeah. So I’m trying to translate this. So I’m thinking about the 3 contexts you mentioned. The first one is a simple context. So I’m a leader. It’s a simple context. Everything is according to plan perhaps, or according to best practices and so on. So as a leader, I can maybe make decisions relatively easy. So my goal is to engage my team, that’s why I’m asking questions, but I also can be fairly dynamically directive. In a complex situation, a complex context, I would think that I have to ask a lot of questions to understand really what’s going on, but then I have to reduce the complexity so that people can move forward. So I have to make some decisions as a leader. And then the chaotic things is maybe it’s just make decision. It’s when you appoint a dictator basically to get things done and to move you out of danger, little danger kind of thing. Is this how that works?
It’s pretty darn close, I would say. And the thing is about the chaotic piece. You got that right, except that people end up staying there too long because it’s kind of seductive. I’ll just keep making decisions. I’ll just keep pointing and people will go, and at some point, it’s no longer chaos, it’s actually complex, which means we need to engage people. Like, what are we actually seeing on the ground? What’s actually happening? What’s going on? And the goal then is not to create a new policy, but to pilot stuff, to try stuff. Let’s see what happens. Let’s take 7 steps this way and see what we learn. If you think about any movie that you’ve seen, I don’t know, about a war situation, during Covid, I watched a lot of old Westerns.
So like, if a group of people are trying to figure out what’s going on, they all walk around with a flashlight, maybe not in a Western, maybe it’s a lantern, but they’re all walking in a different direction and they’re communicating. So in a movie today, they’d then be communicating on the radios about what they’re seeing, and they’re all gathering information to help us decide what to do. And that’s kind of a somewhat oversimplified way, but it’s a way to think about complexity. Like all of us should be gathering the data.
As a leader, we need to be making sure that we're hearing all that, valuing all of that, and taking and trying stuff based on what we're learning as we're learning,
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oh, maybe we don’t need to go this way, we need to go over this way instead. Okay, cool. No one did anything wrong. What we did was to learn stuff to help us continue to move forward in that complexity.Okay. I love it. So tell me a little bit about the book, I mean, obviously, Flexible Leadership. So probably, you’re discussing many of these things. Why did you decide to write this book, and what is the main message of the book?
Well, I think because of your great question so far, Steve, we’ve unpacked the big message. The big message is that in times of uncertainty, which we live today, the anecdote for that is to be flexible. If we’re not changing, think about it this way. Let’s say at the beginning of 2020, you were leading in a certain way, before the pandemic. If you’re leading in exactly that same way, being consistent, not being flexible, right, being consistent. If you’re leading the same way that you were leading then, do you think the world has conspired to help you be more successful? Like, has the world sort of moved in the direction of your natural tendencies from the beginning of 2020? Not likely. I’d bet against that. So we need to be able to flex, to navigate uncertainty. And when we can do that, we can build our confidence.
So that’s the big picture message of the book. And why did I write it? Well, because there’s more uncertainty than ever. What I was trying to codify and capitalize on is what I’ve been learning as I’ve been on this leadership journey for 30 years. I’ve written a bunch of other books. I believe, hopefully, and with the help of people like you having me on your podcast. Hopefully, we’ll be the most impactful of all, because I think it’s a way to help us frame uncertainty so we can get our arms around it enough so we can act, but not act out of cockiness or overconfidence, but act from sort of a sense of perspective and wisdom that can help us be more successful. I’m not telling you exactly what to do here. What I’m telling you is giving you a framework for you to figure that out in real time.
Yeah, love it. And I’m sure these flexors will help the readers navigate in different situations where they’re wondering, okay, how should I be more flexible in this context, whether it’s chaotic or complex and what are the tools available to me to flex and to respond? Is that right?
That’s exactly right. I believe that when people read the book, that’s what they will get. And then we spend the last part of the book trying to help people. How do I turn that knowledge, how do I turn that skill into a habit of actually applying those ideas? Yep, that’s exactly right.
So if I’m a leader or entrepreneur and I try to figure out what flexors to use, what is the most important question I should ask myself?
Well, I think it starts with that word I said earlier, which is, it depends. Like, when you think about a situation, say, well, it depends, but what does it depend on? Look at the possibilities in front of you. When you think about that, and then you say, well maybe I need to ask more. Maybe I need to listen more. Maybe I need to move in a direction. Maybe I need to focus more on my team and less on the outcome. Maybe the vice versa of that. Maybe I need to give more positive feedback. Maybe I need to give more corrective feedback. Maybe we need to change faster. Maybe we need to change slower. Just like hitting on a few of those flexors here. The point is, if I stop enough to have the mental conversation about where we are on the map, then I can make some more informed choices about how to flex rather than simply reacting based on how I would normally have reacted.
So if the question is where are we on the map, then what helps me decide where I’m on the map?
Well, obviously read the book and get a whole lot more insight about the Cynefin Framework, which is the map we’ve talked about. And obviously, Steve, you’ve been very gracious to let me describe some of that and yet we couldn’t go very deep. So, quite honestly, I will say that the map will help you understand your context better, which will help you think about how to flex. But even if you don’t do that, simply saying, okay, what am I seeing here and what might I do given what I see? If what I see, I know is incomplete, meaning that it’s probably complicated or complex, who do I need to get into conversation with me so we can have a better, clearer picture?
Love it. Love it. Well definitely read Kevin Eikenberry’s book, Flexible Leadership. It’s coming out March 25th, right?
That is correct. As we’re having this conversation, that’s tomorrow.
Yeah, tomorrow. It’s coming out tomorrow. So we’ll try to publish this very quickly so that it’s going to be fresh. So if you hear this, then go on Amazon and buy the book or where else can the book be purchased?
Yeah. You should be able to get anywhere you buy your books. Amazon, of course, is probably the most likely choice. But if you go to kevineikenberry.com/flexible, that’s kevineikenberry.com/flexible. There you will find a sample chapter of the book and all the links to buy the book, Amazon, other places, as well as some bonuses if you buy multiple copies. So lots of good stuff there. Kevineikenberry.com/flexible, Steve.
Well, definitely check it out. And leadership is one of the most important skills in today’s world, probably it always was, because it’s a multiplier and it requires both IQ and EQ to navigate. And you need to be flexible as well, which is much harder than being rigid as a leader. And then you read the book, then you’ll find out what the contexts are and what is your mindset that you need and what are the flexors that you can apply in order to be a great flexible leader. So thank you, Kevin, for coming and sharing your thoughts about Flexible Leadership on the show. And if you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you follow us on YouTube and give us a comment, give us a review on Apple Podcast. And stay tuned because every week we come with a very exciting thought leader or entrepreneur who shares their frameworks with us. So thanks, Kevin, for coming and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Kevin’s LinkedIn * Flexible Leadership by Kevin Eikenberry
https://youtu.be/Fka2npq2KjgMarcus Hamaker, CEO of [bu:st] USA, is driven by a passion for helping small businesses find their pursuit of value by simplifying projects, optimizing processes, and streamlining operations for sustainable growth.
We learn about Marcus’s journey from growing up in a family business to leading [bu:st] USA, where he applies lean principles to help organizations improve alignment, communication, and execution. He explains the 5 Steps to Finding Value framework—Organizational Alignment, Communication, SOPs, Change Management, and Project Controls—guiding businesses to remove inefficiencies and drive sustainable growth. He also shares how the Boost Method ensures teams operate with clarity and purpose, emphasizing fastest time to value as a key metric for success. He highlights key leadership lessons and the mindset shifts entrepreneurs need to scale effectively.
—Pursuit Value with Marcus HamakerGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Marcus Hamaker, the CEO of [bu:st] USA, a consulting firm that helps you simplify your projects, optimize your processes and streamline your organization. He is also the host of The Pursuit of Value Podcast. Marcus, welcome to the show.
Hey, Steve, how are you? Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I am super pumped to have you. It’s going to be a great episode and we are going to start as usual with the ‘Why’, because that’s what powers great entrepreneurs. They have a strong ‘Why’. So what is your personal ‘Why’, Marcus, and what are you doing to manifest it in [bu:st] or any of your businesses?
Yeah. So, my personal ‘Why’ is just to make companies better. Ever since I was younger, growing up in the family business, watching my dad work hard. I’m very intrigued by business and it’s really interesting to me why one business can succeed exponentially and another business really struggles to get off the ground. And so what we do at [bu:st] USA, what my podcast is about,
The Pursuit of Value, is really helping small businesses be better.
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Real simple. And I also believe that small business has the power to change the world. I believe that business is and can be the greatest force for good in the world today because of just the entity and the formation of it. Also, not only what you can do with your employees internally, but how you can embrace the environment that you’re in. Wherever that’s in Italy, whether it’s here in the United States, you have the ability and the responsibility and the opportunity to impact wherever your business sits. And so I really love small business. Yeah. And small businesses are always exposed to market forces and there’s no way to take it easy and you always have to strive to be competitive and make a profit and definitely is a powerful force for reducing waste. And I’m making this point because one of the things that [bu:st] does is to apply Lean principles. Tell me a little bit about the [bu:st] method that your company, your group developed, and how do you bring in Lean?
Yeah, so when we talk about Lean, it really has to do with value and it has to do with defining what is valuable to the company. So what’s valuable to a manufacturer might be very different to what’s valuable to a service company, right? So in our [bu:st] method, we always want to start with defining the future picture. What is success to that company? Or more simply, what is the solution to the problem that they’re running into? So you define the future picture, you define the targets, you build the roadmap.
And through that whole process of defining the value, you also want to throw out what’s not valuable. And that’s where it lines up with Lean. And we always really try to focus on making every step, every process as efficient as possible. And that’s what’s really important. And that’s what we do really well at [bu:st] USA.
So what’s the process for improving the process?
Well, again, it really depends on each person’s issue. Oftentimes we’re brought in to solve a problem and that usually happens at the project level. Sometimes we’re brought in just for strategic planning and so on, but it really depends on what specifically is going on and oftentimes, and just full disclosure, the problem is really just a lack of alignment or communication within a team. It’s not necessarily this big, glaring thing. It’s the fact that not everybody’s on the same page, not everybody has the same motivation, roles and responsibilities aren’t defined and they’re not clear. And then the communication platform is not efficient. So, really, it’s just getting everybody on the same page and saying, okay, are we all tracking the right way? Are we all heading in the right direction? If not, let’s stop. Let’s make some adjustments and move forward. So it’s very problem specific. It’s very organizational specific. What we’ve learned over the years is organizational alignment and communication are two of the biggest issues. It’s not necessarily the project. That’s not necessarily the thing that they’re working on.
So how is the [bu:st] method different from EOS and Scaling Up and I don’t know, McKinsey & Company for management consulting. So, what’s the unique attribute of the [bu:st] process?
Again, personal opinion. I’m not familiar with all of them, but what I’ve seen in my consulting career is that what we do with the [bu:st] method is we approach everything at the project management level. We approach everything as project managers, and it’s very much that we view everything through a project management lens—PMP, Lean, and CAPM. Our project managers, our consultants are certified, so we look at it differently. We’re not just stepping into it going, okay, we’re going to fix this. We’re very specific on the roadmap, what’s valuable, what’s lean, what’s necessary, what’s not necessary. So it’s very methodical on how we approach it. And then each and every week, we have a session with all the stakeholders where we’re aligning everybody.
It’s never just a report that we send out. We come together and we are talking strategic alignment with every single stakeholder. And then we’re allowing the people, the stakeholders that we’re talking to, we enable them to report up to their executives, to the people that they report to. So it’s very methodical and how we do it. It’s not just a, hey, we’re doing this, throwing it out at you. There’s always a purpose behind what we do. Again, because
we're always focused on what's going to bring value.
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We understand that there’s a lot of noise, and so when we step into a company as a third party, we certainly do not want to add to the noise, we want to add value as fast as possible. And that’s one of our metrics. What is the fastest time to value when we step into a corporation? And oftentimes, just no need to hide the secret sauce here. It’s just helping people communicate better.
Fastest time to add value. So how do you figure that out? Is this that you have multiple problems that could potentially solve and then the low hanging fruit that you’re going to start with or how does that work?
Logically, going after the low hanging fruit is the easy part, and we see that in the discovery sessions. We see that relatively quickly. But what we really want to quantify is can we see a difference in how the team, the stakeholders are behaving? And I’ll use an example. We had one project recently where we went into a large project, multiple stakeholders over. It’s going to end up being roughly a 2-3 year project. And right from the beginning, we saw that nobody was aligned. I mean, this guy didn’t know what this person was doing. She didn’t understand what was going on there. Then there’s people over there going, who is this? Who’s this company [bu:st]? What are they doing here? It’s like, hold on a second, bring them all together. And one of the simplest things we did is we developed a template for them to run a meeting. Simple. It was that simple.
So when they were to start a meeting, we gave them a very specific set of protocols to go through, laying out the agenda, touching on what happened the last meeting, any calls to action that needed to get done. And so we were able to see that they came to value quickly because the next meeting that we observed, they went right through it. Then the next one, they went right through it. And so all of this chaos that was going on really subsided just in a very simple, you know what, let’s give them a methodology, let’s show them how to use it, why it’s important. And so that was one of our fastest time to values is because everybody went from chaos mode to like, oh, okay, this meeting is going to actually make a difference. We’re having it for a specific purpose and what we want to get out of it, we will get out of it as opposed to most readings where they just kind of show up, people come together, they waste time, they walk away, like, what just happened there? And that’s not what we want.
That’s great. So, Marcus, the way you approach clients, you told me about the 60 minute discovery session that you run, and you said that it had a very specific structure, I think there were 5 steps to it? Can you share this with our audience what it looks like and how it’s powerful?
Yeah, well, it’s really 5 areas that we focus on, and I touched on two of them already. The first one is organizational alignment. And that’s typically a company at the end of the year, they’ll establish their next year goals, strategic plan. And who does that go out to, if you’re not in the company, let’s say the CEO puts it together and maybe the executive team gets it, but maybe the people in manufacturing or wherever, not everybody sees the executive plan, or if everybody does see it, they don’t know how it applies to them each and every day. So,
super important that we establish what is the goal of the company, what is the future picture and what is happening in that organizational alignment.
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And real simple, it’s looking at the org chart, is it updated? Does it make sense for today’s company? What is that future org chart look like when we’re at the end of this plan that we’re on? And then looking at the roles and responsibilities. As a consultant, one of the first things you learn to do is just to talk to the employees, just get a feel for the culture, find out how everybody’s jiving. And you’d be surprised that most employees don’t understand how their day-to-day tasks impact the goals and the vision of the organization. And that’s pretty common. And so organizational alignments, number 1. Communication, always number 2. Operational procedures, standard operating procedures, that’s where we kind of dig into the processes, that’s number 3. Number 4 is change management. This is something that I think a lot of people don’t understand is that in today’s business environment,
there is always some component of change that is happening inside of an organization.
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New product, new service, new certification, AI, digital transformation. There’s always some component of change, new employee, right? You name it. There’s a change going on. Change affects people more than what most realize. They may not be able to put their finger on it, but change disrupts a comfort level in most people, whether they realize it or not. And that affects the culture of the organization. So we always want to address the change. And then lastly, and this is more specific, but it’s project controls and project support. So any sort of internal company project that’s going on, if they’re having issues with that, we want to address that. And so when we look at those 5 categories, we can, within an hour, determine what needs to happen, especially if the company doesn’t know. And we’ve had that situation where, like, I don’t even know where to start. So we’re like, okay, let’s start at org alignment. Let’s look at your org chart, and usually we can camp there for a good 30 minutes. And then the next 30 minutes is on communication. And then we got enough out of those 2, to put a scope of work together, to help them get out of their pickle.
And then after, let’s say you run a project, you fix the communication issue or the alignment issue, whatever it is, then do you go back and do another 60 minute audit to see what the biggest lever becomes after the first one or two cleared?
Yeah, it really depends. I mean, oftentimes we’re brought in for something very specific, whether that’s a UL certification, ISO certification, or it’s a new plant industrialization, new product line, whatever. So we come in very specific. If it’s more strategic in nature, we have the discovery session and we’re able to pull out what they need help on. And another simple example, we were helping a construction company just understand that if he wants to grow to X million dollars beyond what he is today, his current infrastructure won’t be able to sustain that. And so we had to do today’s org chart and say, okay, if you want to 10X your revenue, can this current org chart sustain that? Well, the answer to that is no, you’re going to have to add project managers, engineers, you’re going to have to add salesmen, more administrators. And so we were able to help him see what he needs to do in order to scale in revenue to a certain point. And honestly, a lot of people don’t understand that, you know what? If I want to add $5 million to my top line, that’s a lot of money. What does that take? If you’re only at $3 million today, how can you really justify doing that if you don’t have a strategic plan in place to grow and scale, step, right?
It can’t just be, hey, I’m going to hire a sales guy. Let’s go. It doesn’t work like that, especially in small businesses. So we try to take on everything very methodically, very strategically. Again, I always want to add value. And if we’re not adding value. We’re out. It’s like, well, I don’t want to be a burden to you. I don’t want to cause more issues with us being around.
So we're always very specific and very strategic on how we approach our customers.
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Always wanting to add that value. Okay. So I’d like to switch gears here and talk a little bit about [bu:st] and maybe your other businesses that you’ve worked for. What was the hardest decision that you ever had to make in business?
Yeah, well, there’ve been a few. I think the hardest decision to make is a couple of, well, there’s two, really primary. One is letting somebody go, I think is always a hard decision, because
the way I approach leadership and management is very, again, value driven. I want to add value to my people.
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And if we got to let them go for some reason, something happened somewhere that I probably wasn’t doing my job to the degree that I could or should have been doing. So I take that very seriously. And then number 2, whenever you have to close down a business, and I’ve had to do that personally, I’ve been a part of companies that have had to downsize or a part of companies that I’ve walked into, been hired to restructure and we’ve had to downsize and then build it back up. And so I think that whenever you have to make those kinds of decisions, they should be made with a lot of forethought and empathy. They have to be made. That’s just business. But to me, that’s tough. Yeah, I mean, letting people go is really tough. Yeah, it’s not a fun part. And you always feel like you should have done something different so they didn’t get to this point. And it’s a self examination. So, what about the other side? What are the important questions that entrepreneurs should ask themselves?
Yeah, I think it goes back to your first question, what is your ‘Why’? And again, I love business. I have done a lot of study on it. 30% of all businesses fail within the first 2 years, 50% by 5 years, 70% of businesses fail by 10 years. That’s just the U.S. metric, I imagine when you get overseas, it’s roughly the same. There’s roughly 33 million small businesses in the U.S. There’s about 400 million worldwide. So the numbers are huge. And then there’s 3 to 4 million that start every year. So those numbers are pretty massive. So when you look at the number of businesses, the numbers that start and then the numbers that fail. My experience, when I dig into this, I see that there’s a mindset issue with the entrepreneurs, and that’s knowing the difference between a lifestyle business and a growth business, understanding that if they don’t have a firm direction when they start a company, it’s going to be a challenge, understanding what’s valuable, what we talked about previously. And I’ll give you an example of that. When I started my construction company, when I started it, what was valuable was very different from what it was a year into the business. And then it became me doing everything, pouring concrete at 5:00 AM, getting off work for doing estimates, paying bills, invoicing, wearing every hat.
And then I came to the realization how stupid that was. I needed to hire somebody to help me. Well, that was hard because I did it all. I had to train them. Then I had to trust them. And so there’s this whole dynamic and small business that I got to just dig in and do it myself bootstrap mentality, and that’s great, but eventually that becomes pretty stupid.
And you have to understand that you have to learn to duplicate yourself in a way to scale your business.
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Now, there’s some businesses that want to stay a one man show, and that’s fine. That’s absolutely wonderful. There’s a lot of businesses out there that do that, but for the people that really get frustrated because they can’t grow, there’s a mindset issue. And so to answer your question, again, I think that the entrepreneur or the business owner needs to ask themselves, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Why am I doing it? And then what am I doing? And then how am I doing it? And if you can really ask those 3 key questions, you can plot out a pretty good path to growth and success in a business. You really can. So Why, What, and How.
Yeah.
love it. Yeah. So why is, you know, the purpose. What is, what is the core business that we are trying to build here? And how is, maybe, how different from everyone else?
Yeah. And so it’s really vision, mission, and then execution. Like how am I going to execute? And part of that, how, and part of that why, and what is really saying, okay what’s different about me? What can I bring to the table? When I started my concrete company, I wanted to be really professional. I grew up in it and I saw all the subcontractors that my dad was around and all the builders. And the one thing I picked up on is that there weren’t very many people that handled themselves very professionally. It was construction. You could show up dirty. You could yell and scream at people. It was all just kind of, that was the culture of construction. When I started my business, I was like, no way, I’m going to build a portfolio. I can hand it out to potential customers. My truck’s going to be clean, I’m going to dress nice. I mean, I had this thought in my head that I was going to be professional. And I did it. And it worked for me, but I think back and there’s probably 25 other things I probably should have focused on, but you know, you learn and it works. So I think that you got to find what that is that sets you apart, what makes you special?
Yeah. I mean, there’s a certain clientele that wants to deal with professional contractors and they are willing to pay a premium. So it’s probably not a bad differentiator. I had a client who was a fire and water remediation company. And for them, one of the core values are professionalism because it was a table stakes thing.
They were looking for people who could present themselves, who could talk to the owner, who would clean up after themselves and that’s a huge differentiator for them.
Yeah, really, that’s the low hanging fruit in construction nowadays, unfortunately, but very true.
Yeah. So, tell me a little bit about the POV podcast.
Yeah, so it’s The Pursuit of Value Podcast, and this is something that was sparked in me back in 2020, 2021, the Covid days, and really just wanted to take everything that I’ve learned, what I learned growing up, what I learned in business, and I just wanted to share it. And so to me, the thing that always rings in my head is, how do you pursue value? And there’s a fundamental, first question to that is defined value. What is that? And in the context of business, what’s valuable to you, Steve, it could be very different to what’s valuable to me because it is subjective, but what I really want business owners specifically to focus on and understand is for them to sit down and ask themselves that question, like what is valuable to me today in my company? Is it growth? Is it a lifestyle? Is it my employees? What service is it? What is it? And then if they can focus on that, and then come up with a strategic plan to execute on that each and every day, man, there’s no reason why businesses should fail at the rate that they do. And that’s my heart. I really don’t like looking at those statistics and seeing that 30% fail in two years and 50% because I’ve lived through that. I remember my dad going through some hard times during the recession of the ’80’s. I went through hard times in 2008 when that happened and there’s nothing harder or worse for a person to have to go through a business that is not succeeding. It’s very challenging, very difficult.
And so The Pursuit of Value Podcast is just my way of sharing that. And so season one was all about the business owner mindset. Season two, we were for sessions in, and that’s about company culture, the next season, we’ll be talking about strategy, strategic execution. So we’re talking about things that most don’t think about, because I know company culture is kind of a buzzword, but do you really understand what creates a company culture like personal character, integrity? There’s these things that are these intangible things that a lot of people don’t necessarily think about when they’re thinking about their culture. And then
the business owner mindset in season one, that was a fun one because how you view yourself and your business is critical to success.
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Well, definitely, and I resonate with this whole idea of eliminating these business failures. I call it Business Covid. And according to my math, it’s 180,000 businesses that fail, that disappear each year. Businesses between 10 and 250 people, it’s about 17 million of such businesses. And I believe that with the right approach of coaching and advising, all those companies could be saved and that would create 2 million jobs a year, and a 4% boost to the GDP.
Yeah, right.
That’s awesome. So if people would like to learn about your podcast, about learning about your your company, [bu:st] ,or yourself, or want to reach out, where should they go and where can they find you?
Yeah. So for the POV podcast, it’s just www.thepovpodcast.com. Go to the website. We’ve got the episodes there. We got blogs there, all the resources. We have a free eBook that’s on the website. For [bu:st], it’s www.bu-st.com. And they can reach out to us there. And then obviously, Marcus Hamaker on LinkedIn.
Well, definitely check out Marcus. He has got great concepts around growing businesses and the 5 areas of alignment, communication, SOPs, processing, change management and project controls. I love this. I have not thought about number 4 and number 5, and they are super important. It really is true that people hate change. And it’s an effort to get them to embrace it, it’s a whole project in itself. So I love the message. So if you’re listening to this and you want to learn more, then go and check out bu-st.com, spelled in a unique way. And Marcus Hamaker, CEO of [bu:st]. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. And those of you listening out there, if you enjoyed it, please follow us on YouTube, review us on Apple podcast and stay tuned because every week we come with a new episode and with an exciting entrepreneur talking to us. So thank you, Marcus, for coming and thanks for listening.
Important Links: * Marcus’s LinkedIn * [bu:st] USA * The Pursuit of Value Podcast * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Function Ownership Chart™, Summit Vision, and Rock-Step Planner™
https://youtu.be/LvorRF-e2UQLawrence Armstrong, Chairman of Ware Malcomb, is driven by a mission to help leaders layer their leadership by integrating creativity, strategy, and empowerment to build resilient, innovative organizations.
We learn about Lawrence’s journey from architect to CEO, how he transformed Ware Malcomb into a leading international design firm, and why he developed the Layered Leadership framework. Inspired by architectural design, he explains how leadership, like architecture, involves synthesizing different layers—Light, Sound, Emotion, and Thought—to build strong, visionary organizations. He shares how leaders can apply these 4 Layers of Leadership to inspire teams, create strategic clarity, and drive sustainable growth. He also introduces the Visible Light Spectrum metaphor for business diversification, discusses the importance of fostering a culture of innovation, and offers insights on making tough leadership decisions.
—Layer Your Leadership with Lawrence ArmstrongGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and my guest is Lawrence Armstrong, Chairman of Ware Malcomb, a leading international design firm. He’s also an accomplished business leader, architect, artist, and the author of Layered Leadership. Larry, welcome to the show.
Oh, Steve, thanks. Thanks for having me on.
Well, what a bio, what a CV. I’m proud of having you on this show. So, we’ll get into all of what you are doing, but let’s start with why you’re doing it. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your different business, and I guess authorship is part of artistic activities?
Thanks. Well, I think I wrote the book and pretty much everything else I’m doing right now is trying to help people. We had a great time building our company and I’m involved in a lot of other pursuits at this point. Some of the ideas and the creativity we brought to leadership I thought could really help people build their organizations.
So, let’s plunge right in. When you talk about leadership, what is your experience about it, and what made you want to write a book about it?
Yeah, I think that I have a little bit of a different take on leadership than maybe most people do. So that’s why I wrote it. The idea behind Layered Leadership is this conceptual idea of the way I see the world. Architects think of layers when they design space and buildings and different aspects of a building. And so I’ve sort of tried to expand that thinking to different concepts and different inspirations and how we can utilize inspirations in our life and turn them into strategies to build an organization and to inspire growth. And so using that creative thought, whether it be a business, a concept in a business book or a metaphor for a physics lesson from high school or a discussion about the example set by Leonardo da Vinci, would
bring different ideas together and synthesize those into strategies to build an organization.
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And so I feel like it’s a little different take on this idea of leadership.So, what does layered leadership look like? I mean, are there like figurative layers that you have to build in order to be a great leader? How does it work?
Yeah. So it’s sort of the baseline of, first of all, understanding your company and where you want to go and what you’re trying to do. And then inspiring your people to help build it. And so, the various aspects are understanding your company, what it does, what it does not do, I think is very important. And then how you want to expand it, how you leverage and encourage your people and empower your people to help get there, and how you build those people and how you encourage them by empowering them and training them, and then just infusing different concepts that inspire in a creative way to build up.
So, Larry, in our earlier discussion, you told me that this layered concept or layered vision, you also call it, this comes from the architectural design process, and I think you talked about light, sound, emotion, thought. How do these inform an architect? And then how can you transform these or transfer these concepts into leadership? What are the representative analogies in leadership for them?
Yeah. So these are great analogies. You think about, especially in a very abstract way, some of the art I produce is all based on conceptual layers, and layers occur physically in the built environment and physically in the unbuilt environment and in natural environment in a different way, sort of an orderly versus a chaotic type of layers of space. And it occurs in light, in shadow and sound, and layers of sound, layers of instruments and music, layers of thought and emotion when you’re in a room of people. And so it’s a very conceptual way to think about the space-time. Then if you transfer that into how can we synthesize various layers of learning and creativity and concepts, and put them to work as strategies to build your company or your organization. So it’s kind of a very conceptual idea, but it really works once you start taking these different types of input that you might be inspired by and adapting them to a strategy to inspire your people and build your company.
Okay. That sounds super intriguing. So can you give me examples of maybe each? So, we talked about light, sound, emotion, thought. How do you practically turn them into strategies?
Yeah, so for example, we are a design firm that specializes in commercial real estate. Well, when we started, we were an architectural firm in Southern California that specialized in industrial and office building design for commercial developers. That was our specialty. Very vulnerable to the shocks of the economy. So we set out to diversify our company, both from a geographic standpoint, from a product standpoint, and a service standpoint. So early on, we were trying to figure out, okay, we don’t want to try and do everything, so how do we diversify and protect ourselves from the ups and downs of the economy at least a little bit more than we are? And so I used a metaphor from high school physics class called the visible light spectrum. And so the visible light spectrum is the colors of the rainbow. Outside of the visible light spectrum are infrared on one side and ultraviolet on the other side, and you can’t see them. So, when we were discussing, okay, how do we diversify but stay in business that we can dominate and we can lead? So, we needed to stay within commercial real estate, but we could add retail. We could add medical office buildings. We could add advanced manufacturing. We could add high-tech facilities. We could add interior design. We could add branding and building measurement and we could add a whole series of offices in important geographic locations that were important to our clients, but we were not going to design stadiums. We’re not going to design a military bases. We’re not going to design custom homes or churches, and so the visible light spectrum was a metaphor that we’ve used for many years, actually, to define our diversification so we could build our company. So that’s just one way that we’ve used
kind of an inspirational input to design a whole strategy for our company.
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And there are many more in the book, and they’re very different from that particular one. But that’s an example.That’s interesting. So I guess you can brainstorm around this. Okay. What are the visible lights? How do we stay inside the rainbow, but diversify into different activities so that we reduce our shock exposure, I guess. Well, the other thing that you say on your website is that building a culture is an artistic expression. What do you mean by this and how do you build artistically a culture and what are the elements of it?
Well, I think that design firms tend to think artistically all the time about the work we do, the actual services we produce. But, we want to sort of infuse that same creativity into building our company and how do we do it. So one way we have done it, is to inspire all of our people to think creatively about how we can improve our company. So we conceived this idea called WM3.0 several years ago where we solicited ideas from everyone in the company around three broad categories and encouraged them to think creatively and come up with ideas that would really improve the company. Some of them were small and easy to implement. Some of them were bigger and needed some cultural shifts to make happen. But we got over a thousand ideas and they were amazing. And so we had working teams in different categories to study, prioritize, and implement some of these ideas. I mean, we didn’t implement every one, but we got a lot of great ideas out of it, and it really improved our company. So we’ve done that several times after that, and we continue to have that process in our company today.
That is very interesting. I heard about a similar process, and I think the Japanese companies, when they have this idea box, and then they have these committees studying the ideas and giving feedback and even the lean approach to have people innovate in their own areas and kind of create a culture of continuous innovation. One thing you mentioned, you mentioned the word several times and it’s kind of one of my favorite words, you say inspire, you have to inspire people, you have to create a culture that inspires people. You are very empathetic about inspiration. So how do you inspire people in different ways? What inspires people to be a great organization?
Yeah, so I found that if you create a culture that empowers people, encourages them to take risk, encourages them to make sure we understand where they want to go in their career and then spend time and resources mentoring and coaching people and building people up. We kind of call ourselves a leadership academy here. We spend an awful lot of time encouraging our people and training them. We have a program called WMU, different classes they can take, different subjects that affect our business. We have a formal mentoring and a formal coaching program, and we have all kinds of leadership training. We have big leadership meetings three times a year. So, we have built our company in the model of Jack Welch that he did at GE, which was an inspiration, by the way, to build a leadership academy so that, as we grow, we have people that are growing in their careers to fill the leadership positions that we need in our company. So, we found that by encouraging our people and inspiring this idea of empowerment and growth it just creates this culture of inspiration and excitement.
Yeah, it’s kind of interesting that you brought up Jack Welch because he was also called Neutron Jack. So he wasn’t always in an inspiring mood, sometimes he was in a firing mood. So I wonder if the inspiration of Jack Welch, is it just because of the academy or there are other things that he did that inspired you?
Jack Welch has taken some criticism over time, which is understandable, but I think that in total, he built GE into an amazing company. So you can take inspiration from different things. I mean, obviously his performance, at least for me, was amazing. Obviously he had to make some tough decisions.
Part of leadership is sometimes you got to make tough decisions. I think that's a good lesson that he taught us as well.
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Some people might not have always liked his style or his methods, but he was a leader in a different time frame too. You got to remember. But this idea of building up your people and training them up empowering them and encouraging them was a great lesson I thought. He built a whole leadership academy there and they spent a ton of resources on it and some great leaders have come out of GE over time. Once again a different kind of an inspiration than something like the visible light spectrum or Leonardo, but an inspiration that we could take and modify and adapt to our company, which is really the point.Yeah, I agree. He was an amazing leader. He was the son of an Irish railway conductor and then he 20x the market cap of GE and became the biggest company in the world. So definitely, we can’t take anything away from him. So talking about tough decisions, you mentioned that that’s one of the things that good leaders have to do. They have to do tough decisions. So what is the hardest decision that you have ever had to make in your business?
Yeah. So in our business, especially being tied to commercial real estate, even with diversifications, we’re still somewhat vulnerable to the ups and downs of the economy. The toughest decisions I think we’ve ever had to make is during recessions, downturns, because projects stop, so you have to get smaller as a company, because you are smaller, because you have less revenue. So along with that, you have to have fewer people to do the work, and so you have to have layoffs. And those are always the toughest decisions because you’re affecting people in their livelihood. But it has to happen and it has to happen in a timely basis if you don’t want to put your company at risk. And so those are definitely the toughest ones for sure.
Yeah. And I’ve been there as well. Not once, unfortunately. And it’s tough not just because of the people, obviously, that is very tough, but it’s also, I mean, at least I felt like I failed people. So it’s not just I hurt them, but I even failed them because I didn’t live up to the implied promise of maybe growing the business and making it successful and making it a stable place for them. And that’s really tough to face up to that personal failure.
It’s tough to face up to and it does feel like failure and it is in many regards. But on the other hand, you can control what you can control and geopolitical events in the world economy is something we normally can’t control. So I think facing the tough decisions is really the lesson. No matter how you got there, you still have to make some tough decisions sometimes.
And ultimately people can land on their feet. And if a company is suffering, it’s bad for the people as well, even if they keep their job because they know that their job is unstable and they are not succeeding. It may not be their fault and it erodes their self-confidence and their market value ultimately. So it can even be seen as a way of not hurting people.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, no good comes from delaying the tough decision. It just doesn’t make it better. It makes it worse, actually.
Yeah, I agree. That’s awesome. So before we wrap up this conversation, one final question, and maybe we can talk about your book as well. What is the most important question any entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
Well, this is a question I ask myself every day, and normally because when you’re the entrepreneur, you have the ability to affect any part of your company every day. And so usually when I get up in the morning, it’s like, okay, what can I do today to make the biggest impact on my company? And different days require different focuses depending on what’s going on. And so it could be a new proposal or a new client or a pursuit or tough decision-making time or dealing with a big contract or a big invoice or a personnel issue or a hiring opportunity. And so I think
it's important to keep your head out of the weeds when you're an entrepreneur,
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which is a common trap, and keep your head up and say, okay, what can I do today to push forward and what’s the best way I can do that for my company? It’s always important to stay out in front of your company and that your people see you, that you’re out in front of it. You’re out in front of it. You’re thinking ahead. You’re thinking beyond today. And so the moves you make today are really with the thought in the mind of what you’re trying to get to this year, next year, the year after.So in a practical sense, does it mean that you have to keep your desk empty and your schedule fairly open so that you can respond in real time and you can actually focus on those things that might not be in your schedule?
It’s important to not overschedule yourself. I think that that’s a trap people fall into. And so obviously you’re going to have schedule every day. You’re going to have things on your calendar, but you’re most effective if you can have that time to think and definitely you got to keep yourself organized, uncluttered, desk clean, email cleaned out, all of that stuff is important if you wanna be effective.
Yeah, Jeff Bezos said in an interview that he only wants to make three decisions each day. Nothing else, but just three important decisions and he wants to focus on it and he sleeps well, he exercises, he eats well, just to make sure that he’s in the best possible shape to make those three decisions.
That’s right. And I’ve got stuff in the book about stuff like that. I think eating right and taking care of yourself and exercising is all part of it. You have to do that. People say, I don’t have time. Well, you don’t have time not to do it. You have to do it.
Yeah, love it. So, Layered Leadership. So what’s the biggest message of the book? If people who should read it, who is looking for what?
I think any business leader or someone who is trying to build an organization of any kind, I think it can help. It gives lots of different leadership ideas, tips, goals, things that I’ve done, everything from writing a business plan to taking some of these creative initiatives to taking care of yourself the right way, to managing your finances the right way, to having a succession plan. There’s a lot in there about succession plans. So, anybody that’s trying to build a company or a business or an organization, I think hopefully there’s something in there that will help you.
Yeah. Well, definitely check it out, Layered Leadership from Lawrence Armstrong. And one more extra question. I know I said this was going to be the last one, but you’re also an accomplished artist. And I see a piece of art behind you, which may be your creation, I don’t know.
Yes.
So, tell me a little bit about why you became an artist and how did that connect to the layered vision and the Layered Leadership idea, and how do you even have time for that?
Yeah, so I’ve been an artist my whole life. I decided 12, 13 years ago to begin showing my work, finally. And so I show in galleries all across the US and Europe and some in South America. And all of my work is abstract expressionist and studying this concept of layers. All of my work is a manifestation of that idea. And so, I can keep studying this for a long time. And it goes to the art, it goes to my company, it goes to the book, this whole idea of synthesized layers.
And why are layers important?
It’s just the way I see the world and I see it as a way to express an understanding of the world and my application to how you build an organization.
Is it about complexity or synthesis or both, or neither?
Yeah, I think so. The world is complex. It’s my way of trying not to make it less so by understanding different layers and how to synthesize those layers for the result you want.
So if you can articulate the layers, then you can systematically approach things perhaps. That’s awesome.
Yeah.
All right, well, if people would like to learn more about your art, your books, your company, your future ideas and visions, where should they go?
Yeah. So you can find the book and see some podcasts, see some blogs, all that sort of stuff at www.layeredleadershipbook.com
All right, well, Larry Armstrong, business leader, artist, author, architect, and so much more. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom of layers. And if you enjoyed this conversation half as much as I did, then please give us a review on Amazon and follow us on YouTube and check us out on LinkedIn as well for short snippets of these episodes and stay tuned for following episodes. Thank you, Larry, for coming and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Lawrence’s LinkedIn * Layered Leadership by Lawrence Armstrong * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Function Ownership Chart™, Mentor Meeting Model™, Summit Vision, Short-Phrase Strategy™, and Vision & Strategy Map™
https://youtu.be/etlBrw4WKGw?si=NxtN4Gg1iZ02nmgVRon Monteiro, Keynote Speaker, Facilitator, Trainer, and Author of Love Mondays, is driven by a mission to help professionals discover their purpose, build fulfilling careers, and burn their boats to fully commit to meaningful work.
We learn about Ron’s journey from a finance executive to an entrepreneur, speaker, and author, and how he embraced the Ikigai framework—a Japanese philosophy for finding meaning in work. He introduces the Path to Entrepreneurship Framework, a four-step approach that helps individuals transition from corporate life to a career they love: Find Your Purpose, Build Your Bridge, Burn Your Boats, and Flex Your Muscle. Ron shares insights on overcoming fear, learning to say no, and balancing financial stability with the pursuit of passion, while also exploring the mindset shifts needed to create a career where every day—not just Mondays—feels meaningful and exciting.
—Burn Your BoatsGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Ron Monteiro, keynote speaker, facilitator, trainer, and the author of Love Mondays. Ron, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Steve. I’m very excited to be here.
Well, it’s exciting to have you. You have a very interesting career coming across the world to be here with us. And you also have some interesting frameworks that you’re using. So, let’s start with what drives you. What is your personal “Why?” And what is this Ikigai process that you mentioned on social media and your posts that help people find theirs?
Yeah, I want to rewind. Like I’m a big proponent of purpose and life work and things like that. Many years ago, I would be shaking my head because I wasn’t clear on my purpose. So, I’ve done a lot of work and a lot of personal development work that a lot of it talks about how do you start with what is your “Why,” what is your purpose? Simon Sinek, as you’ve mentioned. And my purpose now is I get a lot of joy from helping others. So, the way I’ve phrased it, how do I help myself and others love Mondays and every other day? And I think it connects to my book, which talks about how do you love Mondays? So today’s a Monday that we’re recording, and every other day. And then
Ikigai is a beautiful Japanese concept that talks about people who don't even have a word for retirement. They love what they're doing so much, and it's connected to their life purpose.
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So, Ikigai is a framework I love. There’s a whole book on Ikigai, if anybody’s interested, which asks four simple questions. “What do you love to do?” is the first one. And this is something we journal. So let’s say five years from now, what I love to do might be slightly different than today. So it’s not a fixed destination. It’s one of those iterative processes. So, you start with “What do I love to do?” The second is, “What am I good at?” So for me, I love teaching and I think I’m pretty good at it. I’ve done it for a while now. So, what do I love doing? The third is “What does the world need?” Okay, so if I continue with my example, I think the world needs people to teach them things. So, for me, one of my favorite topics to teach is soft skills and story time because I really struggled there. I landed a company that helped me overcome my fear and now I teach it for a living. So that in itself is a “Why” for me. And then the fourth question is, “What can you get paid for?” I know inflation and all these things are coming into play. So, if you can answer those four questions and it’s right in the bullseye, right in the heart of those, and think about four circles, concentric circles. If you find something that’s in the middle there, it’s your Ikigai, it’s your reason for living, it’s your reason for waking up on a Monday and every other day. And that’s, to me, a lifelong journey. And if you hit any of those two questions in isolation, it might be a profession or a vocation or something like that and so there’s a beautiful visual and I can send it to you, I’ve included it in my book, which shows it graphically. And so if you take the time to journal on those four questions, you can find your Ikigai. So I love the concept.
Yeah, that’s awesome. Jim Collins talks about this idea of the economy engine, and what is the economy engine of your business, and it has to be your “Why,” your purpose, and what you are really good at. And the third one is “What can sell?” And then in the middle, but that’s only three circles. So, you have a fourth circle and that’s the Ikigai in the center. Very interesting. So, tell me about how you found your Ikigai. How did you land on what you love doing and what people need and you also pay for? What was your process?
Yeah, I love Steve Jobs’ quote, which talks about, it’s really messy going forward, but when you connect the dots backwards, it makes a lot of sense. So, one of my favorite examples ever in business is he took this course on typography when he had dropped out of college because he was interested and then he brought it to the Macbook. So, my story is obviously not comparable to Steve Jobs, but it’s very messy going forward. I didn’t have this plan. I was just trying to do things that I love to do, like teaching and training. And I was doing a lot of speaking for free, whenever I could get some experience to do what I wanted to do, invest the time and energy. I did a free webinar, for example, where I was speaking around the world during COVID. I wasn’t getting paid, and that’s where I met my business partner.
So many things that I’ve tried to do within that Ikigai concept. What do I love to do? What am I going to do? Even if I do it for free, it’s in the spirit of building confidence and competence because I went through a 20-year corporate career. I was doing finance and now I’m a speaker and author and trainer. It’s a very different profession. So I had to find a way to bridge between the two. And I actually hired a coach. And one of the big things was how do I spend more and more time doing the things I want to do, while at the same time, I’m still working full time because I had to pay my bills. So it’s a clean process if you look backwards, but at the time it was very messy. And entrepreneurship for me has been a fun road, but there’s times where it’s been very stressful, there’s times it’s been messy, and even now with all the stuff going on in the political world, many companies might put a hold on training, I still have to say, okay, I’m going to work that much harder to get my business going. So yeah, it’s been a fun road, but but challenging and exciting at the same time.
Yeah, I like to think about this, what you’re talking about, what you’re describing is that during the eight to four, whatever, nine to five, you really are selling your hours to someone. And then the rest of the time, you can work on building your own business. And when you do that on your own time, it’s really hard. It goes very slowly. You’re trying to figure things out. And when you get to this tipping point, then you can leave that job and make your entrepreneur venture the full time. That’s fantastic. But then you have the challenges of entrepreneurship. So, yeah, it definitely is messy. I can relate to this. Let’s talk about your framework. So this is a podcast of frameworks and I’m always looking for something unique. We are over 250 episodes in and what is a framework that you or your colleagues have developed or stumbled upon that really helped you achieve something?
Yeah, so one of the frameworks I use in the book is, how did I get from working full-time to now running my own business? And the four steps, and I go through them in detail, I share my own experiences, I share other stories. Number one is what we talked about already, find your purpose. And so you could use your Ikigai, you could use the Jim Collins framework you mentioned, but let’s be clear on, what is our “Why,” what’s our purpose, what’s our reason for being? So that’s step one. And we’ve got some exercises in there to say how do people actually work through it? That was very important to me. Step two is what I call build your bridge.
So this is me, picture me as a finance person who now wants to go speak on stages and do training sessions. It was foreign to many people. So what I did was I actually hired a coach and he had this brilliant metaphor for me, which is build your bridge. And he always used to say, Ron, one line at a time. We’re gonna do this, we’re gonna do it one line at a time. And, honestly, if I didn’t have that coach, his name’s Wayne, he’s a dear friend of mine now, I probably would not be talking to you today. Because another big lesson I learned is surround yourself with the people who are gonna uplift you and are gonna help you get to where you want to go. So I slowly built my bridge one line at a time. And that step is all about building enough confidence and competence. You talked about, what’s that time to take the leap? Okay, so that’s step two. Step three is pretty provocative. It’s burn your boats. If this is the time, go all in. For me, it was resigning from my job because I now felt like I could do this on my own. And what it also does is it just says, look, you’re going all in.
There’s no paycheck coming in every two weeks. I didn’t have a paycheck coming in every two weeks after that. And that’s when it’s like, okay, it’s time to sink or swim. And I had to fight for it. And so that’s an interesting time. And I never tell people to do that too early because you have to do a lot of work ahead of time to get there. That’s the burn your boats. And step four is flex your muscle, which, look, we’re in a constantly changing world. I always want to say it’s a constant journey. There’s never a destination. Like, I listen to a lot of podcasts. I listened to one on the weekend where it was this billionaire and he was talking about there’s no door where you hit the door and okay, success is here. It’s the constantly evolving journey. So that’s my four step framework. And again, it’s like, it’s iterative, like you may do it and then come back to it because your purpose is slightly evolved and change it. So it’s a fun framework that I work through that I reflected on after. Again, when I went through the process, it’s not like I had this four part framework I was working on, but what I tried to do is say, for future entrepreneurs, for people trying to find their Ikigai, here might be a little bit more of a methodical process than what I used.
Yeah, I like this to build the bridge and then burn your boats. It’s when you’re back against the wall and you really have to deliver. It’s amazing the energy it can release, but it’s a scary thing. And I kind of have this thought that the most successful entrepreneurs are the ones that are willing to put themselves in the biggest jeopardy because they know that they have the internal resources that they can mobilize, but they will only be mobilized if you really have to, because it’s very hard, you have to dig really deep. And the ones that are willing to put themselves there, I mean, Elon Musk is not a perfect example these days, but he did sleep under his desk in Tesla when he was trying to get it to 5,000 a week production. He did appoint himself as head of engineering of SpaceX when he was in over his head with how to even do that. So this kind of mentality really helps, but it’s also super scary. You have to have the confidence that you will be able to prevail. What’s been the hardest decision you’ve ever had to make in your business?
In my business, I think what’s hard is also saying no. So for me, it was a great lesson to learn, but it was hard. When I first started, again, as a finance executive, I’m trying to make a living now, I was struggling. There was zero revenue coming through. So what I decided to do is anything that had a dollar sign to it, I’m doing it. So whether it’s write an article, train on subjects which I have no business training on. I did a lot of things in the beginning to say, okay, I just need to start generating revenue. I got to the point where now a lot of opportunities were coming my way and I had to learn how to say no. So it was hard to do, but it’s a wonderful thing when you learn it because before it’s almost like, FOMO, fear of missing out. Am I missing out on an opportunity that I could have some revenue and grow my business and things like that?
And I found, again, it connecting back to the Ikigai concept. I think I learned that a good framework for making a decision of yes or no is not money, it’s “Am I going to add value?” Am I going to love that? So, for example, now if I still, look, it’s a business, so there’s certain things I do where in an ideal world I might not do it, so I don’t want to paint a picture where it’s all rosy. But there’s certain things where I’m just very clear, is it a hell yes or a no? And if it’s not a hell yes, then maybe it’s not worth doing. So that was a hard lesson for me to learn. And then I think the hardest decision was the decision to quit my job. To say, look, I’m going to go in and I’m going to basically tell them I’m leaving. And two weeks from now, there’s no paycheck coming in. Zero. So that is a very hard decision. But that was the burn the boats, as we talked about before.
Yeah, because
at some point, your time becomes the most valuable commodity and your attention. And if you have to split it between your job and between your venture, you're never going to give what your venture needs to really take off.
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And at some point, you have to say, okay, I’m going to lean into this and try to make it happen.Yeah. Amazing. And we’re all different. Like if some people want to run their business as a side hustle and they still love their day job, that’s perfect. Everybody’s journey is a little bit different.
Yeah. So actually what happened to me about 25 years ago now, it’s crazy to think, 23, is that I got fired from a bank and I was 35 years old and since the age of 20 I’ve always wanted to be an entrepreneur but I had these great opportunities that, it’s like I was in a golden cage situation and suddenly I got fired and I just said, okay, this is my time and I’ve walked across the street and I got fired on Friday. Monday, I was in business and it was a wonderful thing in one way to have the freedom that nobody’s looking over my shoulder but then obviously the reality set in as well that there’s no help now. I’m on my own, I have to do everything myself. My company name is completely unknown and people will not necessarily take my call because they just took it because I was part of this big bank and they had this big balance sheet behind me. So that was super scary.
Yeah, I can see that. But that’s a lot of courage you took.
Well, that’s the point that I did have to take the courage because I was pushed. I was by default courageous. But anyhow, tell me a little bit about your book and why did you pick this title, Love Mondays, and how to love Mondays? How should we love? How do we get to the point where we can love Mondays?
Yeah, so I’ve been in business for 20 something years, working for businesses and I always used to hear people, oh, it’s Monday, like the energy is very low. And then you get to the middle of the week, oh, it’s pump day, a little bit of excitement. A hint of a smile. Well, before that, I even hear Happy Junior Friday, which is Thursday, and I’m just like, I get it, like I love the weekends as well, but imagine a world where everybody was excited on Monday, where people were like, happy Monday, and they really meant it. And when people do not have as much anxiety on Sundays, because many people feel anxiety on Sundays, because the work week is starting. And I know people in my book who jump out of bed at 4:30 in the morning on a Monday because they’re so excited about the week. I’m not quite there yet. I love what I’m doing, but imagine if we can help more and more people find what they truly love to do. So that’s the reason behind the book. And I’ve been fortunate to have a lot of people around me who have helped me build my business to the point where I love Mondays. I do love it, so I want to share. How do other people who maybe don’t believe it’s possible, go step by step and find that journey and that path.
I used to love Mondays a lot. I still actually like them, but I absolutely loved them when my children were small, and sometimes the weekends felt like a heavier lift than the week. It was a combination of, I love my business, I knew I was gonna do my stuff on my business. I couldn’t wait to get going. Sunday afternoon, I already started. And it was also my comfort zone because I no longer had to chase these three or four year olds down the playground and I could actually work at my desk in a comfortable situation with my mind. And I hated Fridays because I was always guilty that I still haven’t finished my stuff and it’s already the weekend and I have to go home and I have unfinished stuff. So I kind of cringed about this Happy Friday for years because I thought it was very lame.
But that’s a wonderful example. If you loved your Mondays and every other day to the point where you weren’t super excited about the weekend. My kids are teenagers now, so I know what stage you’re talking about. And for me, it’s like, how do I find, I don’t wanna use the word work-life balance, how do I find harmony between the two where I love both? I love the weekends and I love the week. I love everyday. And that’s what I’m chasing. Like, how do I find that sweet spot? And it takes a lot of work. It’s like the flex your muscle. You gotta keep flexing your muscles.
Yeah, that’s right. I love the flex. So, the flex your muscle, so what is the process exactly? How do you flex it? So you burned your boat, you’re kind of gaining traction with your business. How do you go from kind of surviving or getting by to flexing your muscles?
Yeah, so I think the way I was using flex your muscles is really adapting to the environment as well as adapting to changes in yourself. And I’ll give you two examples. So, for example, during COVID, I had to switch from in-person session to Zoom or Teams, like most of us did. But you could look at that as a glass half empty, which is, oh man, I’m gonna have to learn Zoom and it’s gonna be so hard. Or you could say, instead of now, I live in Toronto, Canada, instead of my market being Toronto, Canada, it’s the world. Taking that opportunity to say, wow, now instead of just being limited to Toronto, I can keep around the world. I got this chance to teach in Vietnam, in Hawaii, in India. Whereas before the pandemic, I was doing it in Toronto, which I loved.
But now, so that’s number one, being flexible to say, okay, maybe there’s an opportunity even when something seems hard. And now the second part of adapting to yourself. So, when I first started, I wanted to be a coach, personal coach 101. I realized where do you get paid and it hits your other questions was corporate training, so I started switching more into corporate training. I still do coaching as well and now my latest evolution is because I wrote the book there’s more speaking opportunities I want to adjust to. So it’s being able to really be flexible and say, okay, there’s coaching, there’s training, there’s speaking and if I just said, oh, I want to be a coach and I’m not leaving that zone, that would have really limited me. So I’m saying, okay, how do I be flexible but still try to hit those Ikigai questions and adapt to the environment and myself because I’m changing. I’m a different person than four years ago when I first started my business.
I mean, what’s wonderful about writing books and being a speaker is that you grow from coaching one-on-one to coaching one-to-many and then to speaking one too many, like keynotes. And then with the book, you can reach people who are in different time zones and they are following you through your books and you’re expanding your audience, you’re expanding your impact. So if your Ikigai is to help people, then this is a really great opportunity to do that. So just a question related to this, the switching, the flexing the muscle and kind of shifting the priorities and saying no to things that are not, hell yes. One way for me to do that is to look at, okay, where do I deliver more value? What are the ways I can deliver more value? And if I prioritize those ways where there’s more value and say no to the lesser value, then I’m freeing up time to be available for those opportunities with the higher way. Of course, there’s the in-between when I’m not doing it, but how do you make the difference? Do you just use your emotional resonance to it?
Yeah, I was thinking about that question even this morning. I go for a morning walk with our dog, and I have these thoughts going on in my head, and I actually still think I’m doing too many things. I was listening to a podcast by Seth Godin, and he has this concept which I’ve heard before. He’s like, how do you be the best in the world at one thing? And so, it’s something I’m starting to think about to say, okay, I’ve taken on a lot. I still have a lot of things I’m doing. Do I need to refine that search? Do I need to bring it in a little? But again, it takes a little bit of courage to, but it’s a little bit of another burn the boats moment, which says, okay, I’m getting revenue from a few different things here. If I stop A, B and C and focus on D, there’s probably gonna be a short-term dip again. And it’s gonna take that same courage, that same persistence, that same resilience. So I think it’s a continuous journey. But I think, again, when you think about people who are very successful, many of them have chosen to be best in the world at one thing, which is very hard to do. Even for me, it would be very hard to let go of these things I’m pretty good at, to say, okay, I’m just going to do the one thing I’m great at. So maybe that’s like a future discussion between me and you.
Yeah, and then obviously there’s a risk that you pick the wrong lane and suddenly that market dries up and then you have completely bet on the wrong horse. I love this quote from Andrew Carnegie when they ask him that, Mr. Carnegie, why do you put all your eggs in one basket? And isn’t that too risky to just double down on the steel industry? And he said, I put all my eggs in one basket and then I watched that basket.
Yeah, a wonderful story. I mean, I think he commissioned Napoleon Hill to write Think and Grow Rich. So, he knew what he was talking about. And so like, for example, where I started my business was soft skills for accountants. If I doubled down and said, I’m gonna message every single accountant I know, and I just focused on it, I think I could be very successful. So, I think it’s like, it’s another level of courage to say, I’m going to just go all in on one thing.
Especially in a globalized world where people want to seek out the number one expert in something because our time is so valuable. We don’t want to squander it on second rate people. You want to find the one person and let them teach you so that you become the best in that regard. Well, I also started life as an accountant, so I can totally relate to this.
Yeah.
All right. So as we are wrapping up this interview, what do you think is the most important question an entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
I think it is what we are just talking about is like, what is the value that you’re providing to your customer? What’s the value you’re providing to the world? And being very authentic, like, what is Steve uniquely positioned to provide value to his clients and serve them in a way that’s, like there’s a book somewhere on my shelf, I think I see it’s a yellow book, it’s called Unreasonable Hospitality. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that book. But it was a restaurant that basically became the number one in the world because they were unreasonable in the way they served their clients. So, I think with entrepreneurship, and it’s very hard to find a company that just says I’m going to be the best in the world at this. So, I think the big question, to me, is like what is something that you, or your listeners, or me say I can do this better than anyone in the world because I have passion, energy, skill, all these things that when business gets hard, you’re still gonna be motivated.
And I have like 20 people in the back of my book who, for example, Nancy MacKay, the CEO of MacKay CEO Forums, I’m a part of that organization. She tells me she wakes up at 4:30 in the morning and she’s excited to run her business. And then she can connect it back to her childhood where she wanted to be a teacher and she’s, in a way, a teacher now. And so it’s like, think about those people, like so excited, like you were talking about how you were excited on those Mondays and not excited on Fridays. You’re naturally going to do it even when the going gets tough. Because in business and life, we’re going to hit these tough periods. And to me,
the people who are willing to just fight through those tough days are the ones who ultimately are happy, fulfilled, have more joy.
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And that’s the provocation of my book, where it’s so easy to just settle. Like for me, I was an accountant, a finance executive, senior director title, every outside in looking in, people are like, this is a successful guy, he has a family, a house. I wasn’t happy on the inside, because I wasn’t doing my work. And especially the first couple of years, I wasn’t making anywhere near the same money, but I was much happier. Like people tell me, oh, you have so much energy. It’s because I’m doing the things I love.Was your wife happier as well?
My wife’s very happy. She actually was such a big support, because look, we have two kids at the time. They were less than 10 years old or just around 10 years old. Big mortgage, big bill. So, it wasn’t an easy decision. She was very supportive. And what’s been amazing is now she’s on her own journey. Like she’s a teacher, but she’s learning how to be a yoga instructor and she went on this retreat a few weeks ago and stuff. So she’s kind of seen what I’m doing and now she’s on her version of that journey and she’s inspiring a whole bunch of people to do that. So, it has this nice ripple effect when you, as you talked about risk earlier, and I don’t want people to take an uncalculated risk, a risk where you’ve done the preparation ahead of time, you’re ready to burn your boats is such a rewarding risk. Because I honestly, even if my business didn’t succeed and I went back to corporate, I would be a much happier person because I tried. And so it’s a good lesson in life is to, a lot of us have these ideas and many times I never acted on them. I now talk about, okay, what’s the one action I’m going to take?
Actually, I know people who have tried entrepreneurship and failed and went back to corporate life and they were actually much more contended in their corporate life.
Amazing, I love that.
They knew that entrepreneurship was not for them, they didn’t leave anything on the table, they did try and now they know that they were in the right place, they were doing what was the right thing for them and they didn’t worry about missing out, they didn’t have the FOMO anymore.
Yeah, one of my favorite quotes is by a guy named Wayne Dyer, a spiritual guy, I don’t know if you’ve ever read his work.
I read books from him.
Amazing, and he says,
Don't die with your music still in you.
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And so for me, writing my book and starting my own business, I feel so much joy because I’ve gone for it. Whether it’s successful or not, I mean, that’s all subjective anyway, it’s more the fact that I’m now willing to put myself out there.And what’s the worst thing that can happen anyway?
There you go. And I’m naturally an introverted person. Like I’m very quiet naturally, but now like, because I’ve done all these things, I have so much to talk about and share with people. And similar to you, like I see your book beside you and I see all those books there and I see how much you’re sharing. Here’s what I’ve done in my entrepreneurship journey.
That’s awesome. Well, Ron Monteiro, keynote speaker, facilitator, trainer, and the author of Love Mondays. So if people would like to connect with you or learn more about it or buy your book, where should they go?
Yeah, so my book, Love Mondays, bright yellow book, it’s on Amazon. So go to your local Amazon. And LinkedIn’s where I spend most of my time. So I’ve chosen to spend time on LinkedIn and pretty much nothing else on social media. So LinkedIn is my place to be.
That’s right. So you’re inch wide and mile deep on LinkedIn. You’re doing the right thing. You’re burning your boats on Twitter and the other social media. Very good. So Ron, thanks for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. And those of you that enjoyed this interview, please make sure to comment and follow us on YouTube and give us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening to your podcast. Thanks for coming, Ron, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Ron’s LinkedIn * Love Mondays! By Ron Monteiro * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Summit Vision™, Rock-Step Planner™, Vision & Strategy Map™, and Your Company Why™
https://youtu.be/Q6-OaKXD2hURob Levin, Chairman and Co-Founder of WorkBetterNow, is driven by a mission to help small and medium-sized businesses find top Latin American talent and scale efficiently.
We learn about Rob’s journey from his early passion for entrepreneurship to launching WorkBetterNow, a company that connects SMBs with skilled professionals from Latin America. He explains the hiring process his company has developed—from sourcing top-tier talent to precision matching and seamless onboarding—allowing business owners to delegate more effectively and focus on growth. He also shares insights on the challenges of hiring in today’s market, the importance of building a strong company culture, and why core values should guide every aspect of a business.
—Find Latin Talent with Rob LevinGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and I welcome Rob Levin, Chairman and Co-Founder of WorkBetterNow, an agency that provides high-performing talent from Latin America for small and medium-sized businesses. Rob, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, Steve. Great to see you.
Great to see you, and I’m excited to have this conversation. So let’s start with my favorite question. What is your personal “Why” and how do you manifest it in your business?
Since I was a kid, I always loved the world of entrepreneurship and more importantly, entrepreneurs, business owners. My dad, while he didn’t start his business, he did end up owning a business. And I just remember even going with him, as a teenager, to meetings with his accountant and asking his accountant questions about other businesses that they were involved with. And I was reading Inc. Magazine as a kid. And I’ve always thought of business owners as one of the groups of heroes of this country, along with first responders and military members, what they do, what they go through, and what really is the output of all of that, the effects. Almost all of my career has been spent helping small businesses in one way or another. I started my career as an accountant, and even though I was at a big firm, I was working with the owners of closely held businesses. I was an executive in several fast-growing small businesses many years ago before I started my own, my first company, which was the New York Enterprise Report, a media company for business owners, and then now with WorkBetterNow, this is what I love to do, is to help business owners fulfill their dreams.
That’s awesome. So, what was the moment that led you to starting WorkBetterNow, this business that you’re in right now?
Well, I’ll give you the medium-length story. So, I hired my first assistant maybe 11 years ago, and having the right assistant changed my life. I mean, I was not doing the work that I shouldn’t have been doing. I had more free time to spend on higher value activities, more free time to spend with my family and friends, and it just changed my life. And because I know a lot of business owners, I mean, hundreds, if not well over a thousand, a lot of people were asking me about my assistant. They knew she wasn’t in the office with me and she was remote from Latin America. And I was employing her through this other company based in Latin America. And at some point I said, you know what? I can do a better job than these guys are. And I won’t go into the details there, but I was then in Portland, Oregon, and a friend of mine from college met me there and we were having drinks. And I said, hey, I think I’m going to start this business for, at the time, it was different than what it is today. It was just providing assistance to business owners. We believe every business owner should have an assistant. I mentioned this to my friend A.C. and he said, I’ll do it with you. And that was 2018 and we’ve been off to the races ever since.
That’s exciting. And this is an exciting time to grow a business with virtual assistants. With Zoom, a lot of barriers came down during the pandemic, as you say. So, what’s the process for finding talent in Latin America or anywhere else? Can you describe it for someone who hears about that, maybe this is a weird idea or maybe they heard about it but they don’t know how it works and how they should even wrap their mind around it? What is this?
Let’s start with the wrapping of the mind around it. Let’s start there. I could talk about this for an hour, but I’ll try to condense it. So, business owners have to realize that we have been in and we will continue to be in a talent crisis. Don’t look at what you’re reading in the papers about how all these companies are doing layoffs and the power is shifting back to the employer and all of that other stuff. It’s really a large company thing for the most part. In a small business, every single seat counts. And if you look at the demographics and then changes. The demographics, meaning the Baby Boomers now leaving the workforce, and there’s so many more of them than there are of the younger generations coming into the workforce. Combine that with the fact that there’s differences in, let’s just say that there’s differences in work habits of the younger generations and my generation, Gen X and the Baby Boomers as well.
You ask most business owners and they’re struggling to find good talent. They may have everybody they need, but they’re like, you know what, if there were more people available, I would definitely be changing a few people because, as I said, in a small or mid-sized business, every single seat counts. So what a lot of companies are doing, and I really believe we’re at an inflection point now where this is gonna become the norm and not the exception, is they’re realizing that there is incredible talent all over the globe, particularly in certain areas of Asia like the Philippines and Latin America, which is where my company focuses on, that these people have great skills, fantastic attitudes, great English skills as well. And by the way, not only can you find fantastic people there, but because the cost of living is a lot less in those countries than it is here, it’s also less expensive. And there are other benefits, too. So that’s just to get your head around it. And then if you’d like, I can talk more about how my company works, but other companies work probably somewhat similarly. Would you like me to do that, Steve, like this whole notion of a talent provider?
Yeah, so we talked about this framework. I think we called it the New Talent Playbook. So when you recognize that there is a talent crisis, and there’s all that talent in Latin America and the Philippines, what do you do about it? How do you weave that into your organization? How do you get on board with this remote employment approach?
Yeah. So, first, I’ll back up for a second. So, you mentioned the new talent playbook, which is my book that’s coming out in March. And it goes into a lot more than offshore talent. It talks about how you have to just change your approach to, or at least evolve your approach to how you look at talent and how you manage talent from the culture of your company,
culture is now more important than ever, to how you retain talent, how you attract talent.
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It’s all changed in the past few years, how AI and automation can help, and yes, how offshore talent can also really mitigate the talent crisis. In terms of how it works, companies can go about doing it on their own. They can post jobs on LinkedIn and Indeed and other websites and try to go through the process on your own and then setting up some sort of employer of record in different countries where you’re employing people or you can work with, we came up with this term talent providers or talent partners, companies like WorkBetterNow, my company, where we will take out 95% of the hiring process away because we have the machine in place and the employer brand where we get thousands and thousands of applications a month. And then we have this thing called the top talent filter that whittles it down to the top one or two percent And then there’s a precision match process where we combine what our client is looking for in a particular role, with three candidates that they can interview and within a few days, they can have this person start to work with them. If you think about it, Steve, and you know this as well as anybody, most small businesses don’t like the hiring process, and they’re not good at it. So, in addition to providing amazing talent, in our case from Latin America, we’re taking 95% of the process off of their hands.
Wow, that’s definitely helpful. Because a lot of people who cannot afford to have an internal recruiting office or even nature function, and for them it could be very helpful. So how does that partnership work? So if you’re talking about, I think your term is talent partner, if someone wants W.B.N. as a talent partner, then how should they think about you?
So, like I said, there’s a lot of companies like us both for Latin America and the Philippines, and I can’t comment on how they do things. I can just tell you how we do things, but I would say that they’re all going to be somewhat similar, maybe just the differences will be in the details in terms of the approach. So as I had mentioned, we do all the recruiting, and the assessments, and all of that stuff and screening people. And then a prospective client will have a consultation. It’s about a 20-minute call with one of our client consultants. If they don’t have a job description ready, we will put one together ready for them. We give that information to our recruiting department. They then use this precision match process to line up three candidates that the prospective client will interview for each role that they’re trying to fill. And more often than not, after those three interviews, they’re ready to select at least one of the candidates. If not, we can repeat the process, doesn’t happen often, but it does. It does happen from time to time. And then, like I said, within four days or so, they’re working for the client, making an impact. And then there’s no contracts.
And we basically designed the company in the process to treat our clients the way that we would want to be treated if we were using such a service.
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Now, you also talk about improving the culture of a business. So how do you do that and do remote employees help or hinder your culture building activities?
That is a really interesting question. There’s not a straightforward answer to it. So I’ll just give you the way I think about this. As I’ve said before, and it’s going to be in the book too, if you don’t have a good culture in the office, and this, by the way, goes for a remote person that could be in the United States or anywhere else, because there’s really no difference, by the way. If you don’t have a strong culture in the office, you’re not going to have magically a great culture, remote or even hybrid for that matter. So really, the key is when you’re bringing on remote people, whether again from inside the US or out, the key is to integrate them into the company as well as you can, meaning if you’re hybrid, which you would be if you have an office and people come into the office and then hiring remote, have meetings where everybody’s participating through Zoom or you can have everybody in the office on one camera. Make sure you’re communicating not just in the office, but again, through whatever mechanisms you have, like we’re a hundred percent remote. We have a fantastic culture. We ask our employees both anonymously and then off the cuff all the time.
We have a fantastic culture. You can look up what our employees have to say on Glassdoor and a lot of the things we do. And we're a hundred percent remote.
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We over communicate. We have weekly calls for the entire company. Every department has their weekly L10, we run on EOS. We have fun activities that are all done remotely. We do happy hours, we do meditations, we do talent shows, we recognize people on Teams because we’re a Microsoft shop, and we encourage people to get together in person, and our employees are doing this on their own. They will visit each other and they’ll actually travel from country to country, which is just a great thing to see. So, it really starts, and I get into this in the book, it really starts by having a culture by design. To borrow a term from Jack Daly, it starts not a culture by default, which I’ve done in previous companies, but being really intentional about the culture that you want and walking the walk and not just talking the talk.
That’s very interesting. So, culture by design. You mentioned the weekly meetings with everyone in the company, and you talk about all these engagement events that you organize, like the talent shows and the meditation and get-togethers, are there other elements to culture by design? So, what other design elements did you like to choose?
Great question. I think, for us, it really starts with our core values. We have six core values. The first one, by the way, when my partner, A.C., and I decided to start the business in that bar in Portland, Oregon, we actually came up with our first core value because I told him, we have to put our talent first, and I need to know if you’re on board with that. That’s a foreign concept to a lot of people. And he said, absolutely. And then we were off to the races. Over the years, we put five other core values together. You can find them on our website, and we have a mission, and these aren’t just like words to put on a website or on a wall. We live and breathe these core values all of the time. So they’re involved in the hiring process. If we need to let go of somebody, it’s usually because of a core value misalignment, if you will.
When we recognize people with our W awards, which is a really cool, easy to produce recognition system that we have, it's all based on core values.
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So, developing those core values and living those core values, I think, makes a huge impact on our culture. And the other part of it is if somebody on the team, regardless of whether they’re a superstar or not, is not living those core values, they’re not going to last for too long.
Okay, that’s cool. That’s really cool. I mean, obviously, that’s great. If you model how to build a great culture and your people are part of this culture, they’re going to infuse that, hopefully, into your client companies, and they can get better as well. So I’d like to switch gears here and talk a little bit about your personal journey. And specifically, I’d like to ask you what personal sacrifices have you made for your business? I mean, it’s not easy to be an entrepreneur. Sometimes, people wonder if it’s even worth it. What kind of sacrifices did you have to make?
First of all, if being an entrepreneur is right for you, then it’s worth it. So if I go back to the New York Enterprise Report, that magazine that I started in 2003, I think too many sacrifices. I mean, that was a really challenging business. It was fun, but it was very, very challenging. And I was out almost every night when my kids were in their formative years, working on weekends and stuff like that. And in that case, that business was ultimately not very successful, although it did provide a lot of the intangible assets that we’re using today in WorkBetterNow. Many sacrifices. Now, with WorkBetterNow, less sacrifices. Why is that? A few reasons. Number one, I decided that I needed to do less. I need to focus on my unique ability and do less and let other people do a lot of the lifting. And funny enough, we’ve grown a lot faster with this approach.
Again, using EOS terms, I’m the visionary in the company and staying in that visionary lane has meant that I don’t have to make that many sacrifices. And, of course, having a partner, I think, goes a long way. Now, one thing I do want to say for anybody thinking about being an entrepreneur or people who are entrepreneurs today, and I just said this to my son last night, who’s a sophomore at Brandeis University, that you’re likely to make sacrifices being a business owner. You make sacrifices when you work for somebody else too, different types of sacrifices.
You're probably doing things you may not want to do, but the biggest thing you get, I think, from being an entrepreneur is you get freedom.
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You get freedom to do things the way you want to do them, including I can decide who we do business with, and it’s not just me, but it’s my partner and other members of the leadership team.
When we have a client just doesn’t fit with us, for whatever the reason is, and this has happened, we might say to that client, we have done this, like we can’t work together anymore. When you’re working for somebody else, you may not have that luxury, but you also have the freedom of time. I take vacations when I want to, I don’t need to get approvals for anybody. Of course, I’m not going to take a vacation when I have a speaking engagement, but I have the freedom of time and there are other freedoms too. So it’s a trade-off. It’s like people saying, well, it’s risky being an entrepreneur. Well, it all depends on how you evaluate risk. To me, risky is being in a corporate environment where I have a lot less control over my life. That to me is risky. And for people who work in a corporate environment, taking my own money, a lot of it, and putting it to work in a company, that might seem risky. That was less risky to me. So it’s a matter of perspective.
Yeah. I like to think of it as that, when you’re a corporate employee, you basically have one client. And if that client is not happy with you, they fire you, then you don’t have a job.
It’s a good way to look at it.
Yeah. If you’re an entrepreneur, you have many clients. Maybe you have 10, 20 or more clients. And if one doesn’t like what you’re doing, then you lose one client. And that’s a much better position than losing 5% of your business than losing 100% of it.
Yeah, this is an unrelated point, but I just posted something on LinkedIn, a comment on somebody else’s LinkedIn yesterday, the day before to this end, one of the things that I think entrepreneurs struggle with is, well, I like being this size, and sometimes they don’t say it, but they subconsciously do it. They want to be this size because they think it’s riskier to be bigger. And I actually think it’s the opposite.
I think the bigger you are, if you do it the right way, there's much less risk. You probably have less customer concentration risk.
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You have more opportunities, more different sources to borrow money from, if you need to, you’ll have more options when you’re selling your company, you can attract more talent the bigger you are, because you should have bigger margins and bigger gross profits. So I actually think that, even within entrepreneurs and business owners, people look at risk differently.
Yeah, it’s easier to adjust. If you have a bigger company, you can cut some costs and actually downsize. If you are a solopreneur, what are you downsizing, your personal expenses? There’s not that much room to adjust. So definitely agree with you. So, before we wrap up, let’s talk about your book. So, the New Talent Playbook. So, why did you write this book, and what is the main message of the book?
Yeah, this book came out of my speaking engagements. So, when I decided to start speaking at conferences and things like that and got asked to speak at conferences, I didn’t just want to talk about offshore talent. I could, and occasionally I’ll do it. I really wanted to put this in the perspective of the bigger issues that small and mid-sized businesses are facing, which is this talent crisis, which is a combination of these demographic changes, as well as the fact that the younger generations of the workforce, everything changes for them. The reasons they’re going to stay at your company has changed. And let’s say, my generation, the Gen Xers, the things that are going to attract them to your company are going to change. So, I really wanted to take all of this knowledge that I gathered, and there were a few areas where I wasn’t an expert, we brought in contributors to help out, and really create the definitive book on the intersection of talent and small and mid-sized business, because again, if you’re reading most things around talent, they’re designed for large companies that has nothing to do, almost no crossover, as what it takes to lead and manage talent in a small and mid-sized business.
Okay, so really, you’re democratizing talent management for small to medium-sized businesses.
Yeah, that’s one way to look at it.
That’s awesome. So, you talked about entrepreneurship. What do you feel is the most important question for an entrepreneur to ask themselves?
I think it depends on their stage, but in general, I think the most important question is what do you really want? What do you really want? Well, now, why is that an important question? Some entrepreneurs are fixated on a revenue number. I want to get to this revenue number. Well, why do you want that? If you’re focusing on a revenue number, that sounds like an external gratification that you’re looking for. Because, really, what matters to you is going to be two things at the end of the day from a financial perspective. One is your net income. And number two, potentially, if you’re going to sell the company, what the proceeds will be. And obviously, there’s a correlation with revenue, but there might be easier ways and quicker ways to get to what you want to that aren’t necessarily revenue-based. What else do you want as an entrepreneur? Do you want freedom of time? Do you want freedom of who you’re doing business with? Really think about what you want and then what you’re willing to do to get there. And in most cases, from what I’ve seen, where there’s a mismatch with what they want and what they get, it comes down to a few things. Number one, letting go. Number two, building up a team of really talented people. And number three, really delegating and elevating to them, really being very clear on what we’re trying to accomplish and cascading that down all the way throughout the workforce and getting everybody behind, a common theme. For us, at WorkBetterNow, for example, we’re not focused on a revenue number. We’re focused on how many people can we impact. And we measure that by the number of WorkBetterNow certified professionals that are working for our clients. It’s one number that we can all get ourselves around and it creates simplicity. And again, that could be cascaded down to every department and everybody knows how they’re making an impact into that one number, into that mission.
Yeah, I just love it. That’s the Profit per X number, perhaps the number of certified professionals. So, these professionals, they go out and they help place talent? What do they do?
No, our certified professional, that is the talent.
They are the talent who you’ve certified that they are good people.
Yeah.
Okay, that’s awesome. So, if people would like to learn more about the services that you offer or your book, or maybe they want to connect with you, where should they go?
Yeah, so for the company, workbetternow.com, all the information you’re looking for. By the way, also a lot of content related to the New Talent Playbook, and a lot of content on how to go about getting an assistant, because we started, it was just about providing assistance to business owners. You can find all of that at workbetternow.com, best place to connect with me, and you’ll also see updates for the book would be on LinkedIn, just type in Rob Levin, WorkBetterNow, and you’ll see my picture of my bald head up there somewhere.
Awesome, well, Rob Levin, Chairman and Co-founder of WorkBetterNow, an agency placing extraordinary Latin American talent for small businesses, small and mid-sized businesses. Thanks for coming and sharing your thoughts on entrepreneurship and building a team and the culture with our listeners. And if you enjoyed the show, please follow us on YouTube, and like and review us on Apple Podcasts, and keep coming back because we have other exciting entrepreneurs joining us. So, thanks for coming, Rob, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Rob’s LinkedIn * WorkBetterNow * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Function Ownership Chart™, Playbook Manager™, Playbook Mapping Chart™, Scoreboard Sketcher™, and Vision & Strategy Map™
https://youtu.be/NPxN5HDgqHsDavid Shavzin, President of The Value Track, is driven by a mission to help business owners know and make their number when exiting their companies—maximizing financial returns and securing their legacies.
We learn about David’s journey from corporate leadership to founding The Value Track, where he helps business owners strategically prepare for and execute their exits. He explains the What’s Your Transition Looks Like Framework, which guides business owners through understanding the M&A process, estimating transferable value, refining their advisory team, conducting due diligence, and enhancing business value before a sale. He highlights the importance of early planning, maintaining business momentum, and avoiding common pitfalls that can derail a successful exit.
—Know and Make Your Number with David ShavzinGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is David Shavzin, President of The Value Track, which helps business owners set out an exit strategy and then sell their companies by optimizing price and sale terms so that they can monetize their life’s work. David, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Steve. I appreciate you having me. Looking forward to it.
It’s great to have you and we have good topics to talk about. So let’s start with my favorite question. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your business?
Yeah, for me, it really has been helping people. That’s sort of number one. And of course, we tend to do that in the way that we know or our background or our experience. So for me, that has come through decades of working in the business world, more generally, a lot of large organizations, and so helping the smaller business owners and the smaller companies in that lower bid market, I get to be pretty rewarding for me.
Well, definitely, you’re projecting that enthusiasm about helping people, which is awesome. So what was the defining moment that led you to starting your business?
It’s interesting. It came really at the tail end of my large corporate career and was transitioning out, looking at what I wanted to do exactly. And early on, ended up helping a friend with their business, just kind of went in to see what was going on. And I realized that while they had a good business, they’d been working really hard, they did not have all that help around them for either maybe outside advisors. They didn’t have all the resources in all of the companies that I’ve had, the experience. And there was so much that they could be doing to make that company run better, stronger, faster, more valuable. And that kind of triggered it for me. And I just got engaged and started working more with, like I say, those smaller companies because there was just so much I could bring to the table. That’s really what kicked it all off.
Yeah. So you basically helped them with their exit and you actually have developed the process to do that because it can be quite complicated. There are many moving parts. So what does your transition framework look like and can you walk our listeners through what you do when you meet with a new client and kind of help them figure all these things out?
Yeah, it really starts out, Steve, with just a lot of conversation. We want to understand not just the business in depth, but what their personal goals are. So they’ve been often at this business for 10 years or 20 years, 30 years, and haven’t taken the time often to think about, okay, what’s next whenever that is? What do they really want out of, I’ll say, the company, but also out of life after that? Some people might go that traditional retirement route. Some people might be thinking about another business venture, but they’re just kind of running day to day. So we want to understand what those goals are, when they want out, how much money they might need, what they want to have happened to the company, to employees, what’s going on with family, just that whole context to then start with understanding the company and then how we might advise them going forward. So, it’s that initial conversation and then most of the time they’ve not been through the sale of a business. They started this, it’s it, that’s their business. And so we want to get them to understand what that sale process looks like, what the M&A process is. I think when you haven’t been through it before, there’s this assumption that it kind of you wake up one day, I’m ready to sell, I’ll have a buyer the next week, I’ll get a check the following week. That kind of thing. And so we want to explain that it takes a lot of time. It really can take six months at a minimum, nine months, a year, sometimes longer. And so what does that mean? What are the implications on the business? What they need to be doing along the way while we’re preparing to sell and then get through the sale. So with that understanding goes with options. Again, if they’ve not been through it before, they’re typically thinking they’re going to find one person or one company to buy them. And there’s really a lot of options that might better fit their goals that I was talking about a moment ago. So there’s a lot of options once we know what their real goals are.
And then the second big piece is talking about value of the business getting an understanding across as to how somebody from the outside will look at the business and the value of that.
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So it may be that they’ve spent 30 years, blood, sweat, and tears, built a nice business, but when it comes down to it, the reality is that someone who’s going to potentially buy the company is looking at it through a very different lens. And so, we want to talk about value, what we call transferable value, not what you think it is, but what that buyer will look at and how they’re going to scrutinize it. So that idea that it’s not some absolute value today, or it’s not a value that you want or maybe need, it’s really going to come down to optimizing this from that perspective of the buyer. And yeah, we could talk a lot more about value.
It is a fascinating topic. I remember I read a book years ago, Private Capital Markets, which talks about the different valuations. You can have 8 or 10 different values depending on what is the purpose of the valuation. Is it about giving stock to your employees? Is it about transitioning it to an ESOP? Is it about selling to a strategic buyer? A private equity buyer? Is it about management buyout? Selling to the management buyer? Is it about insuring the business? So all of these scenarios attract different valuations and that is fascinating. The other thing that really struck me when I was an investment banker was that there were some value that the owner actually perceived and had as part of owning this business that a buyer would not have. So for example, optimizing their taxes was something that the buyer didn’t have, or the prestige that came with being a business owner. They would have to keep that up, but they would actually not get anything for it, and that was a different thing to grapple with. And of course, the perks of being a business owner, the golf club memberships and the trips and all that stuff. So, that’s definitely interesting, but I digress.
No, I think that’s really important points. And that’s what you just walked through is key element of what we do with our clients because they need to understand all those things. And I would add just there’s one more layer to it, which is, you’re right. I mean, it depends on the purpose of the valuation, but also if you look at say 10 potential buyers, they also have all kinds of different priorities in what they may or may not purchase or value. And so you can get 10 people all the same information everything you would possibly want to know about this company and initial offers from those 10 could be extraordinarily different in a wide range and that’s always surprising to our clients. And so the other overlay in this process when we’re talking with our clients and looking for buyers is to think about if the seller’s trying to maximize the price when they sell, what profile of a buyer might be the best for them in their situation. In that quick example, you’ve been through this, it may be if there’s a competitor down the street, they may pay more because they know that they can take out a lot of the expenses of the company that they’re buying, whereas if it’s somebody that maybe just left a corporate job. They need everything that’s in that company. They may not be able to pay as much. So, the same company, the same P&L, the same balance sheet, this single company can be looked at from a value perspective in so many ways. And that’s what we need to get across. And then once they understand that, what’s fun is, right away, they get it and they start to make daily business decisions differently.
Understanding, they could be making a lot of really good decisions tomorrow, but which ones of those are really going to optimize value over time.
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So, it’s not an easy go to a calculator and calculate the business today based on the industry and the revenue or cash flow.Yeah, well, that’s also very interesting that there are steps they can do to make the business look better to a buyer, but I always felt like the most important thing that they should be doing is just to keep running their business so that they don’t take the foot off the gas and they don’t slow the momentum because that’s what can really kill a deal or valuation when the momentum slows. As you said, it’s a nine-month or six-month, 12-month process and the buyer is going to see the signs of that owner is no longer focused and the business starts to lose momentum and then the poor valuation, it’s not going to be a blue sky valuation anymore. It’s going to be more of a risk management type of valuation.
Yeah, we kind of say don’t take the foot off the pedal. We say actually accelerate. In other words, keep going because anything that they can do in that time period to raise up value even incrementally can really be impacted on the purchase. We had a client who was just doing what we said and was kind of doing it naturally where we were talking to a buyer. We actually got a letter of intent with a good faith, first run at an offer price and she just kept bringing contracts in and contracts in even after that letter of intent was received and we were able to go back and argue for a higher price because these were long-term contracts. So, yeah, if they’ve been working hard for decades, we want them working even harder for that period of time at the end.
Yeah, well, and if then we renegotiated the price twice and, basically, they kept getting new contracts. In the end, they decided that they keep the company and would not sell it. And a year later, there was a change in government. They had a lot of political contacts and essentially the company declined rapidly from that point and it went into Chapter 11 a few years later. So they actually missed their window, they were too greedy, they wanted even more, they were not happy with the values they got and they would have done well actually accepting it. But anyhow, so we talked about educating clients on the M&A process, as to be a transferable value. So what’s next?
So, well, and these aren’t necessarily linear in order, but really we talk to them about their advisory team, who is working with them currently, what they need to really optimize the process going forward. So, it’s a complex world, and this is probably the biggest transaction of their life, business or personal. Often, sometimes too often, but they’re usually really counting on this for retirement and needing a lot of money. So it’s a critically important decision, and they really need that advisory team.
So we want to understand who they're working with now, who their CPA is, if they've got a financial advisor, maybe an estate planning attorney, and others to make sure that those folks are the right ones to go forward.
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So they may have been very helpful over many years, but maybe haven’t really been in the world of working towards that transaction, executing the transaction, or just bringing the expertise needed in this last period, I’ll say, which could be a few years ahead of getting out. But that team needs to be their personal wealth advisor, state planning attorney, we’ll need that M&A attorney to work on the deal. Bankers typically involved in some way. The CPA and in the mix there, the tax experts, and then somebody who’s going to lead the transaction process for them. So, it goes beyond that, if there’s enough time and some of the things that we’ll get into, not just the transaction but actually helping them get ready over time, and then you may get into advisors in all parts of the functions of the company. If there’s enough time, we may have external advisors around marketing or IT or finance, supply chain, and so on. So that advisory team is critical. Some of the pushback sometimes is the thought that is going to get expensive. And in our world, we try to manage all of that, but we also try to explain that we’re trying to optimize this business. Sometimes we’re trying to grow the value, and they need to look at that advisory team as an investment in that short-term growth and in making the deal happen and the transaction happen, and you know this very well. They can spend a year, year and a half, have a buyer, be a week away from closing, and it just falls apart. And then having that team in there helps to minimize those risks of that not happening.
Yeah, that does happen. Another thing that I noticed business owners really struggled with is to not write everything off in the day before the sale and show some profit in the accounts even if it took some tax payment because the profit that they pay tax on is much more credible than the adjusted profit that may or may not be there. And it’s worth doing that investment. But again, there’s risk. What if it doesn’t close? The transaction doesn’t close. So that’s another thing. All right, what happens then? So you’ve got your advisor team in place, then you’re good, or what’s next?
So, again, it’s a little bit of an iterative process, but really the next thing is, what we call and we tell them is a due diligence. In other words, what the buyer does is a due diligence when they’re looking at the company. We want to do that early on, which just means going in to look at everything that’s happening in the company, going through financial statements, sales, records, people, just every part of it, compliance, see if there’s risk. So we go through everything and just try to identify, first of all, any big problems that we know we want to address before going to market to sell. We want to look at areas that might have, in the timeframe that we have before sale, some upside in terms of building out sales and revenue, and potentially taking out expenses in different areas. So it’s really optimizing everything. Now you can’t do everything all at once, especially if you’ve got just, say, a year or two or three.
So we'll go through that exercise and come away with a game plan.
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What do we suggest they do from here through to the sale? And that the prioritization really is focused on what’s going to either bring most value or minimize risk. And so very big problems. It may be kind of timely these days, but if we’re looking at their workforce and they do have workers who are not here fully legally, that’s an issue that’s got to be addressed. A buyer is going to see that. In a manufacturing environment, you may have, they may not have looked at what’s in the ground for the last five years. Anybody buying that is going to have a full environmental study. So those big issues we want to take out of the way. And then other things to clean up, possibly improve from an expense side. If there’s enough time, it may be some people reorganization, helping optimize some things. And if we have time, even looking at revenue, both growth and maybe looking at a better mix of revenue. So there’s a lot of potential there that may just not have had a focus. But now we want to look through the lens of getting out, maximizing value, minimizing risk. And it’s what you were saying, Steve,
sometimes it's not just value, but what's going on now in the market, let's get clean, at least so we're always ready.
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In your example where they waited and waited and said, oh, I’ll keep it. We want to have them as ready as they can be at any given moment for that optimal time to sell.Yeah. So what is the best time for them to approach you?
I say half jokingly, but not really, yesterday. The earlier that we can at least have a conversation, we can share with them some things that they can start doing right away. We can have that conversation even if we’re not engaged in a long-term project, at least we can get them to understand what we just talked about the M&A process and the value process. The sooner they can start that, the sooner they can start on building value, frankly. So even if they’re 5 or 10 years out, they can already be making some strategic decisions. So we want them to get started early, early, early on. And then even if they can’t do a lot, they can do a little bit incrementally each month, all of that focusing on value.
Yeah. So switching gears here a little bit from your clients to your own business. I mean, you’ve been in business for a long time as an exit advisor, M&A banker. Quick story. So I had a client, which was like that. They kept bringing in new contracts and coordinates as a construction company, investment banker. What was the hardest decision that you ever had to make in your business?
That’s a good one. Probably several. One that comes to mind is firing a client. Yeah. And that’s not a lot of fun. You asked me early on at the beginning why I do what I do, what I like about it. It is helping people. But we had a client where we did a lot of that upfront work that we’ve talked about, explained how all of this works, but they were really fixated on putting out a price that was literally three times what we felt it was worth. And we talked and talked and explained and tried to get it across that it just wasn’t there, the value wasn’t there, it wasn’t gonna sell. We collectively wouldn’t look very good if we did that. And so we did have to just kind of part ways and that’s hard because I don’t think they’re gonna get different advice going to somebody else down the line. And I don’t know what will become of that company over time and to them personally as they look to retirement. So that was probably the toughest one.
Yeah, you can only help people that are open to it. If they’re not coachable, then really at some point you have to put up your hand and say, hey, if you don’t let me help you, then I can’t. Or if you don’t trust me that I can help you, then I can’t help you. And that’s just how it is.
Yeah, it usually works. We usually can get them there. Sometimes it just takes some time.
Did you find that typically the longer someone is in business, the older an entrepreneur, the less they are willing to be coached and the more they feel like they know it, they’ve seen it all and they don’t take anything at face value?
So, I would say it’s a range. I know you’re asking the question. I know you’ve seen all of that. I would answer that two ways. Yes, in a lot of cases that does happen. They’ve worked for 30 years. They’ve had a great company, made a lot of money, put the kids through college, bought their second home and on and on. And they didn’t need me all that time, why do they need me now, kind of thing. That can happen. I will say though in the last several years, as folks are getting older, and if they’ve been in business 30 years now, they’ve gone through 9/11, the recession and now Covid. And so I’ve seen over the last several years a little bit more, I’ll say humble outreach. A little bit more awareness that they can’t do all of this on their own. I really saw that switch in terms of initial conversations over the last few years. But like I say, it takes time. And so, because of all that, yeah, it may be three, four, five, six conversations that take place, and slowly they may get there. The other thing I’ll say is the thing that helps is if we’re talking to them with other advisors. So if there’s one or two or three or four of us, and then they start to hear the same thing collectively, and that makes sense, but they’ve got to come around to it. We have a client that reached out almost two and a half years ago, had many conversations, and then didn’t hear from them, about a year and a half ago, reached out again and said, hey, I’m gonna do this. We have a big plan to do some things and I said, okay, I can help, all of a sudden silence. And then came back a third time and then they were ready to get going. And it’s a great case study, if you will, in that journey, in their heads that they have to get to it. We’re there for them. We can spend the time, educate, but they’ve got to eventually say, okay, I’m ready.
Yeah. And especially if you show them the reality, it can take time for them to process it, and to accept it, and come around to it, and stop thinking about the impossible and accept the possible. And that can be not an easy process at all. Especially if you’re in business and you have your dreams and you may not fully accomplish it, but half of something is better than all of nothing.
Yeah, and it’s even getting started. I understand that a lot of what we’ll do in those cases is share a lot of stories that are real cases, real issues that our clients have had, especially in the not starting to address things or delaying things. And that becomes even more critical the older they are. It’s one thing for a 35-year-old business owner to say, oh, I’ve got time. They can make it through another couple of economic cycles. But when we’re talking to folks in their especially 60s, 70s, even 80s, there’s not as much room for error or not as much room to wait.
Exactly, you need time to enjoy the fruits of your labor as well. So on this vein, what is the most important question that business owners, entrepreneurs should be asking themselves?
There are so many very most important questions, Steve, but I think the first is, it’s a little bit of what I talked about at the beginning. What are my goals? What do I really want to be doing? The business has been my life. I enjoy it, but am I going to do this until I’m done living? So what are my goals? What do I want to do? Related to that, really importantly, we always say, get a really good understanding of the value of the business today. What am I worth today? How much money do I need? It’s that combination of questions where they intersect. And so if they can simply get an idea of value and work with a financial planner to understand what they might need, that gets eyes opened. It’s really the kick in the rear end to say, okay, it’s worth, let’s say, 5 million, but my advisor says I need 10. Okay, now we really need to do some things. But if they don’t get that wake-up call, they’re not going to get there. So really hard conversations with themselves, family, spouse, about where we’re headed, and understand where we are. That’s that combination question. So I cheated. I didn’t ask one question. I asked two or three.
No, it’s a good one. I think they are interrelated. What is the magic number that we need, and why, and how are we going to get it? And that’s what you can answer. Excellent. So, if people would like to learn more, maybe they want to have a conversation with you around that. Where should they go and where can they find you?
Thanks, Steve. Yeah, they can email me. It’s david@getonthevaluetrack.com. They can look me up on LinkedIn and the website is getonthevaluetrack.com.
Yeah. Well, that’s a good idea to get on the Value Track, the sooner, the better. So, David, thanks for coming and sharing your 5-step process of getting that value out of your business. Figuring out what this process looks like, what’s your value, putting the team together, making sure you shake those skeletons out of the cupboard, clean them out before the investors come, and then enhance that value, get to your value. And those of you listening, if you enjoyed this conversation, then stay tuned because I have a wonderful entrepreneur coming on the show every week. So, thank you, David, for coming and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* David’s LinkedIn * The Value Track * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Function Ownership Chart™, Rock-Step Planner™, Scoreboard Sketcher™, and Vision & Strategy Map™
https://youtu.be/5i_RE9C7KLYDr. Karen Hills Pruden, Founder and CEO of Pruden Global Business Solutions Consulting and the Sister Leaders Community, is driven by a mission to increase the number of women in senior leadership and help them go from intrapreneur to entrepreneur with the tools to sustain long-term success.
We learn about Karen’s journey from struggling to find mentorship in middle management to breaking into senior leadership and founding organizations that empower women professionals. She explains the Learn, Practice, Teach Framework, a structured approach that helps professionals transition from intrapreneurship (working for others) to entrepreneurship (leading their own ventures). She also introduces the Professional Equity Model, emphasizing relationships, reputation, and expertise as key drivers of career and business success. She highlights the power of mentorship, strategic growth, and continuous learning in building expertise and staying competitive.
Go Intrapreneur to Entrepreneur with Karen Hills PrudenGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Karen Hills Pruden, the founder and CEO of Pruden Global Business Solutions Consulting and the Sister Leaders Community, a global community of exceptional men and women leaders of every generation committed to increasing the number of women in senior leadership. Karen is an expert in empowering businesses to build high performing leaders, and the author or co-author of, wait for this, 32 books. Karen, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. I’m excited about this conversation.
Well, I am excited too. I’ve never met such a prolific author as you are. So, let’s start with your “Why,” because someone like you, I’m sure, has a very powerful “Why.” So, what is your personal “Why,” and what are you doing in your practice and in your business to manifest it?
Absolutely. So my “Why” in helping women professionals acquire and sustain themselves in senior leadership has to do with a pain point that happened in my career about 16 years ago. 16 years ago, I was in middle management, had lingered there for about a decade and I wanted to go into leadership, but I did not know of any senior leaders who happened to be women. And so at that time in my career, LinkedIn was about five years old. I jumped on LinkedIn, I did some research, looked for women leaders who look like me, African American, who were in a vice president position and who had been in that position for at least a decade because I wanted a mentor. So I got my two, number one and number two choices, shot off a direct message through LinkedIn with a copy of my resume with the request for mentorship. And then they made me wait about two weeks. And then at that two-week mark, my number one selection came through and said she will be glad to be my mentor for $350 an hour. Now, back then, I wasn’t rolling like that so $350 an hour was a lot for me but what do you do when you are looking to achieve a goal and someone has achieved it and they can share that blueprint with you. So I negotiated one hour a month for one year. So my contract with her was one $350 for one hour a month for one year. And I worked with her for one year, four months after that one year, I was invited to apply for a senior leadership position. I went through the 4 month process and I have been in senior leadership since then. And so, in terms of my personal “Why,” I devised my professional development corporation for women professionals because it should not be this difficult to find a mentor when you are looking to go to leadership. And so, that is the whole vision and mission of my organization.
The mission is to increase the number of women in senior leadership and allow them the experience and education to sustain themselves.
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That’s great. That’s very good work. And you were very smart to invest in a great mentor because that’s one of the best things a young person, even a not so young person can do to basically follow the people who’ve already done it and just to do what they are doing and what they learn and cut years out of your learning curve. So that’s amazing. And you also launched this big community, the sister leaders community. So you’re helping other people. So how are you helping other people? And we are a podcast of frameworks and you have several frameworks that you talked about and it was kind of hard to pick, but we picked one which helps intrapreneurs to evolve into entrepreneurs. So first, please share with us what’s the difference between an intrapreneur and an entrepreneur and then what is your three-step process to get there?
Yeah, absolutely. So, an intrapreneur is simply someone who works for someone else to facilitate their mission and their goals. So, if you are not the owner of where you work, then you are an intrapreneur. You have the same competencies as an entrepreneur, but an entrepreneur actually works for themselves to facilitate their own vision. So, if you’re working for someone else, you are an intrapreneur. If you’re facilitating your own company, facilitating your own goals, then you are an entrepreneur. And yes, I do have several frameworks that I work with high-performing professionals.
And one is the Learn, Practice, Teach framework that I have.
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And that is for professionals who want to take all of their years of experience you’ve worked for someone else. You’ve got all of this experience and knowledge on the job training. And in some cases, we’ve got an accommodating education to go along with it. And now you’ve reached a point in your career where you decide, hey, I want to work for myself. So you want to move from intrapreneurship to entrepreneurship. I require that individuals first be expert practitioners before you go into the marketplace. It is not as easy as it looks like on social media, Instagram, where you can just go get an LLC and then you’re going to make a million dollars in 30 days. That is not realistic. You have to be very intentional and strategic. And so the Learn, Practice, Teach framework is where you learn through your experience and your education. You acquire that knowledge and that wisdom from working in your particular industry through being a practitioner, doing the work, working with others, and in some cases, leading with others, because I work with a lot of leaders, before you decide to go out on your own and teach, whether it is through writing books or through workshop facilitation or keynote speaking. And so, all of my clients are required to really know what they’re talking about, have worked in the field that they’re consulting and coaching. And so, L.P.T. framework, which is Learn, Practice, Teach, is the evolution from practitioner to entrepreneur for an intrapreneur and an entrepreneur. And I have quite a bit of business of individuals who want to go into business for themselves. So, we are strategic and intentionally planning on how they’re going to do that, so that they can be profitable and it won’t be a hobby.Yeah. Well, I had a boss many years ago, maybe 30 years ago, I was working at a big bank and I was the assistant to the CEO of this bank, and I would attend all the executive meetings and take notes. And in one of the meetings, the CEO said, first, you have to work and then you can manage. And it was about someone who was wanting to be promoted, but they didn’t have the practical experience. And he basically said the same thing. First, you have to be really good at what you do. And in order to even practice, you have to learn the craft so that they allow you to practice. You won’t allow a brain surgeon to operate before they have done their medical school and their residency and all that stuff. Very good. So what is the typical framework for going from learn to teach? What’s the timeframe that most people are looking at if they start with the learning phase?
Well, there’s no standard timeframe because, of course, it depends on the individual, their skill set, their capability, and their commitment, their commitment to elevation. But I can tell you if you are doing something every day, all day, generally,
if you learn from your opportunities that you have and working in that industry, because we have all of our challenges and opportunities, you will become more than just proficient.
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And so, when you go into business for yourself, preferably that you will be an individual who is extraordinary and not just ordinary. Now, ordinary people go into business for themselves every day, and some people can make a good living from it. But when you want to set yourself out from like individuals who have similar businesses, then you want to be extraordinary in how you facilitate your process, your products and your services, so that you’re more competitive than someone who has like skill set or like business such as your own. But no, there’s not a timeframe. It’s more based on individuals’ commitments and capabilities that they have, because you can have some people that can be super awesome in two years. Some people can be super awesome in five years. It depends on the opportunities that were presented to them for them to cultivate their skills to a point where they are more than just proficient.Yeah. I mean, we’re all familiar with the famous 10,000 hour rule that Malcolm Gladwell popularized. I think he also talks about this, that there’s a big difference between practice and intentional practice. And they say that some people have 15 years experience and other people have one year experience 15 times. So how do you make sure that someone will have that 5 or 10 or 15 year experience and not, you know, how do you become intentional about your experience so that you move fast in this?
Awesome question. I love it. So you are looking at what are the receipts that one has generated by the work in the marketplace? And when I say receipts, what are the results that you have generated as you’re doing the work? And so, your work will tell how well you are doing what it is that you do. For instance, my area of expertise was 28 years, I worked at head of HR. While working HR for 28 years, head of HR for about 15. And so, my metrics, because I believe in, that’s my love language, metrics and technology are my love language, my metrics would show that I help populate the workforce of organizations with the right people, with the right skills at the right time, based on the departmental’s capabilities of achieving their departmental goals. And so, you have to have quantitative results-based metrics associated with your work to show how proficient you are. And again, that can be acquired at 15 times or 15 years. It just depends on what is your proficiency doing that period of time.
Okay. So there’s no rhyme and reason of how to be intentional about, if it’s more about KPIs, how do you measure the output and the effectiveness and the deliverables? And I mean, I can see that if someone is winning work for their employer and they are successfully executing projects, then essentially, they are creating those receipts that you’re talking about?
Absolutely. So I will say that the more that you practice your skills, the more opportunities you have to reach those different anomalies that happen just by operating business. And you’ll get that, you’ll acquire the knowledge of how to address those ancillary situations that happen just by you doing the things that you do. So, you gave an example of someone doing something 15 times or someone doing something 15 years. I’ve never been an advocate about how long someone has held a job.
I've always been an advocate about how proficient you are in a job that you say that you are expert of.
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And so just rolling on the clock and being in a position for a period of years does not mean that you’ve actually hands-on done the work, dealt with the complexities of the work, have dealt with the evolution of the work, because work does evolve. How we do it in terms of processes, systems that we use, the talent that is required to do the work evolves over time. And sometimes that, depending on the industry that you work in, that can be a lot. That can be a lot of change. I have IT professionals that jump jobs every two to three years because they get different certifications based on the new software and hardware that are out that have changed the game. If you think about just the number of different programs that we have out here that have changed how we do business. Think about AI. People are incorporating AI, talking about AI, the impact of AI. We weren’t talking about AI five years ago, not the way that we’re talking about it now. And so, the individual who’s going to be extraordinary and super proficient using their skill set is the person who grows. They stay current and they grow what’s going on in their industry and they are constantly doing the work. Or at least supervising those who are doing the work so they know what the strengths, the weaknesses and the opportunities and the threats are of doing business the way that they do business at that time versus how they did it previously.
Now, you also talk about this concept of professional equity. So it’s interesting because it also rhymes with this idea that even when you’re an entrepreneur, you can start building your professional equity. Maybe you don’t have a business where you are accumulating financial equity, but you can build your professional equity. So, how do you accumulate professional equity and how does it help you start the business?
Absolutely. So, equity is really something that you can tap into when needed. A lot of us think about equity when we think about those things that increase in value over time. If anyone has home ownership, it is commonly associated with home ownership. Professional equity has three components to it. It is relationships, reputation, and area expertise. And I’m going to explain each very quickly. So, the reason why it is three is because
successful individuals professionally, even if you're not in leadership, have learned how to leverage relationships up and down the chain, and they know how to communicate with specific parties in and out of business.
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And what I mean by in and out of business is that sometimes lunch and dinner with vendors, with supervisors outside of the office, a lot of deals are talked through, a lot of deals evolve and are made during those particular times. And so, there are opportunities for us to elevate our value within the workplace when we have those working lunches, working dinners, and different things like that. So, relationships are the people you work with, the peers you have, your customers, your vendors, your volunteers, your potential vendors, because you always want to always have one or two potential vendors on deck in case you lose a particular vendor. Otherwise, your business comes to a standstill. So, relationships is one leg. The second leg is reputation. What are you known for? What problem do you solve in your market that you are known for? When someone hears your business name or hear you as an individual, what do they think of? And usually it has a lot to do with the problem that you solve. And so, in order for people to be aware of that, you have to put that out into the ether. You have to make it common knowledge as to what problem you solve. You usually have to have a track record or some receipt that are known, that can be validated and that are repeated. And so, that is your reputation. And then your area expertise. Generalists are wonderful. They understand how everything kind of works together, but it is the expert that is called upon to save the day. And so, when you have an area expertise that everyone knows that this is your area expertise and know that you operate very well in this area expertise, when it is needed, people will think of you. People will hire your business, create opportunities. And so, professional equity is what you tap into during market chaos, why one customer may choose your business over another. For a professional, the way that we can leverage it is doing a reduction in force. When they have everybody’s name on the table, when they’re talking about the pros and cons, the strengths and opportunities of each of these employees and what they can afford to lose, such as critical positions versus those that they possibly can afford to lose, your name may make the cut simply because they know what it is that you offer and you resolve in terms of your skill set within an organization. And that is how you leverage your professional equity doing industry chaos or market chaos.
Yeah. I mean, it’s really interesting how you articulate this because I was vaguely aware of this before I started my business at the age of 35. I felt like it helped me to have accumulated experience and built relationship, but I didn’t think about it as a professional equity, which is kind of the equity I was bringing into my business. Whereas if I started at 21, I would not have had this equity and it would have been much, much, much harder to do. So that’s interesting. Yeah, even when I came to America, I didn’t know anyone, but at least I had the expertise. I had my reputation on LinkedIn, so people could check me out. I already had a couple of books. So talking about books, I’d like to ask you, so you have authored and co-authored 32 books, and many of them are bestsellers. So, if someone would like to get familiar with your work, where should they start? What should they read?
Two books in particular. One for the professional or one that wants to be a high-performing professional is Pruden Principles, 10 Strategies to Propel Women to the C-Suite. C-Suite is a synonym for senior leadership because every business does not necessarily have officers who begin with a C, but it is strategically written and intentionally written 10 whole chapters that talk about everything about data analytics and the power of data analytics. It talks about for women leaders that you don’t have to act like one of the boys so that you don’t have to simulate and emulate a man and men-like mannerisms when you make it to leadership. It talks about images more than a blazer. It talks about having a specialty. It talks about how to negotiate your salary and 20 different things that you can ask for in addition to salary to increase your total compensation. And so, it really is an in-depth blueprint for that professional who is looking to move into senior leadership and want to know exactly what it is that they should at least start by taking a look at. And then I have my most recent book, which is the Comprehensive Business Audit, which is part of my Amplify Your Value series, which is 100 questions that you can ask within your business. It determines your organizational readiness.
So, you can determine if you have the right people with the right skills at the right time, based on what your organizational goals are.
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You can determine whether or not you have the right system operating for what it is that you need your business to do utilizing the system. And then it can help you determine where you are in terms of your processes and how efficient those processes are. And so, it’s broke down to those three sections. There are about 33 questions each section. And once you go through that book, you will have a very good idea on where the gaps are within your business and those things. And then you can kind of prioritize those things that you want to address based on capabilities, financial capabilities and talent capabilities.
Wow. That’s very comprehensive. So, the Pruden Principles is all about someone trying to get on the C-suite and what are the 10 areas they’d have to master to be successful and the other one is 100 questions to essentially maximize your business and make your business as good as it possibly can. That’s great. I mean, if you gather the C-suite and then you have your 100-question plan and you execute that, you’re probably going to make it to CEO.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Or you at least have a plan, information that you can devise a plan based on what it is that you consider to be your priorities, whether it’s for your career or for your business.
Wow. Okay, well, as you’re winding down this conversation, I’d like to ask you this last question. So, you transitioned from intrapreneur to entrepreneur, you are running and CEO of Pruden Global Business Solutions Consulting. So as an entrepreneur, what is the most important question that you suggest any entrepreneur should ask themselves?
It depends on where they are in their entrepreneurship. So if you are a new entrepreneur, I would ask you, what do you believe is your value in the marketplace? Because that is going to determine where your customers come from. Are your customers going to be looking for you or are you going to be spending most of your money marketing and branding, trying to find your customers? So I would ask, what is your value in the marketplace if you’re a beginning entrepreneur? If you are an entrepreneur who have been in business for more than five years, I would caution you to look and make sure that your infrastructure is set up for your success. Because if you reach the five year mark, a lot of businesses go out of business by five years. So congratulations if you have made it to five years. But now let’s take a hard look at your infrastructure to make sure that you are set up in terms of your system, your processes, and your talent to take you beyond five years so that you can not only be competitive, so you can sustain yourself to another five years. And then if you are a seasoned entrepreneur, I would challenge you to shake up the way that you do things. You cannot continue to do things the way that you do things and have done things for the last two or five years, there are always going to be small changes that you can make even if your company is successfully doing it the way that you’re doing it. Figure out how you can incorporate some software, systems, or processes so that you can stay more competitive in your market by maybe having a leg up on your competitors because you’re constantly revising, tweaking your business. And so based on where you are in your entrepreneur journey, whether you just got your LLC, whether you’ve made it to five years, or whether you’re a seasoned individual, there is always ongoing work to do.
Yeah, that’s a never-ending process and the world is fast commoditizing. That’s how I see it and you have to be, I mean, this is the old Ray Kroc, McDonald’s founder, when the staff was complaining that Burger King and Wendy’s were all copying McDonald’s and he said, ladies and gentlemen, we just have to innovate faster than people can copy us. So that’s the thing. So Dr. Karen Hills Pruden, the founder and CEO of multiple organizations. If people would like to learn more about what you do, connect with you, where should they go?
Absolutely. So I would direct you to LinkedIn. That is my playground. That’s kind of where I hang out at. I also have a website that is my namesake where you can stay in contact with me, www.drkarenhillspruden.com. But I also want to offer a free gift to anyone who is listening to me. And so, I will provide a link to a free downloadable that will give you 20 additional things that you can ask an employer for if you happen to be an entrepreneur that are not salaried. So, it will give you the opportunity to see those things that maybe you can negotiate. And listen, I’ll let you in on a secret. You do not have to be new and applying for a job, you can be asking these things of your ongoing employer as well. So, I will provide that to be part of the podcast notes so that you can download it and maybe we can increase your total compensation by next quarter.
Okay, I’m all for that. Thank you, Dr. Karen Hills Pruden. Thank you, Karen, for coming and sharing your wisdom with us. And I look forward to the download as well. And those of you listening, stay tuned because we have successful entrepreneurs of all shapes and sizes and colors coming to the show and sharing their experience with us. Thanks for coming and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Karen’s LinkedIn * Dr. Karen Hills Pruden * Book a call with Karen * Pruden Principles: 10 Strategies to Propel Women to the C-Suite by Dr. Karen Hills Pruden * Comprehensive Business Audit Checklist: Future-Focused Anticipating Change and Carving Paths to Success by Dr. Karen Hills Pruden * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Playbook Manager™, Playbook Mapping Chart™, Vision & Strategy Map™, and Your Company Why™
https://youtu.be/j1K89s-x8D8Adam Goldman, Franchise Coach, Consultant, and author of The Franchisee Lifestyle, is driven by a mission to help individuals find their dream franchise opportunities and align them with their goals for a fulfilling lifestyle.
We learn about Adam’s journey into franchise coaching and his 3 Filters Framework, a tool he uses to match individuals with franchise opportunities. The framework evaluates three key factors: sales vs. execution, full-time vs. part-time engagement, and brick-and-mortar vs. service-based models. Adam explains how these filters guide potential franchisees to discover opportunities that fit their skills, preferences, and lifestyle. He also shares insights on the differences between lifestyle and growth businesses, the keys to franchising success, and the importance of finding the right cultural fit.
Find Your Dream Franchise with Adam GoldmanGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and my guest today is Adam Goldman, a franchise coach and consultant and the author of The Franchisee Lifestyle. Adam, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, Steve. So great to be here today.
Great to have you here. So, let’s start with your “Why.” What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your business?
So, I really have two “Why’s.” Let’s start with them and they’re in no particular order. For my personal “Why,” it’s really to kind of have a great life in general. I’m talking about things such as working at my own schedule, being able to be there for my kids. My daughters are seven, nine, and 13 and I’m not getting any younger. So, to kind of make the best out of this time through travel or through fitness or whatever that might be, and my business allows me to do that. In many ways, my business is a lifestyle business. And number two, my “Why,” when it comes to my company, is really I’m here to help people.
So, what that means is my work is, I almost see myself as a dating agency between individuals and franchise brands.
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So, the way I’ve structured my business is I’m really customer focused and really candidate focused, meaning I spend much of my day because of the systems I have in place that really allow me to have that biggest impact with my candidates, to get to know them better and to make that good match. And even after I’ve made that match to kind of have a relationship with them afterwards. And I’m very blessed to have a situation like this.That’s interesting, and we’ll get into what you do and being a franchise coach. But what struck me that you mentioned in your introduction is that you said that it’s very much a lifestyle business. And I think you’re not just preaching franchise, you are a franchisee yourself. Or are you not?
No, I’m actually not a franchisee per se. I’m part of a network. But we’re not a franchise organization.
Okay, well, some of the franchise coaching organizations are franchises.
That’s right, that’s correct. We’re not one.
You’re not one, okay. So then my question is, what differentiates in your view, a lifestyle business from maybe a growth business or whatever the other category you call it? And what are the pros and cons?
That’s a great question. The way I see a lifestyle business is being one with flexibility. I have friends that are amazing entrepreneurs and I love them to death, but they have young kids, they don’t see them. They might be traveling on a roadshow all year long. And I’m just not willing myself to kind of, for me, it’s about time. What kind of hours you’re working, what kind of flexibility do you have on a day to day basis?
That makes sense. That’s a great perspective. And I have not really considered this before. So it’s a great argument in favor of a franchise or any other kind of lifestyle businesses. And do you consider franchises as more likely to be lifestyle businesses as opposed to maybe growth businesses? What is your view on that?
So, I think franchises could be both depending on which one it is. So, let’s talk about it being a lifestyle business. If you have an amazing system that’s working and maybe it’s one where you’re managing it through managers and it’s a low employee headcount, then it could be a lifestyle business. Now, by the way, just because a business starts out as a lifestyle doesn’t mean it can’t be growth. And let’s say something’s pure growth. I might have an amazing opportunity. I have friends that are multi-unit owners that don’t necessarily have obligations outside of their work, and they’re able to scale these things up, and that’s kind of become their life, and they’re okay with that.
So basically, a franchise can be either or both?
Absolutely. And look, I’m gonna throw a wrench in this, Steve. The same franchise that was a growth business could be a lifestyle business down the road. It just all depends on the cycle of the business.
That’s interesting, which means that maybe there’s a restaurant and you grow it to capacity and then there’s nowhere to grow anymore without starting another unit. And if you don’t want to, then it becomes a lifestyle business.
Yes, absolutely. I mean, look, my own example is when I owned my office cleaning company, my day-to-day at the beginning was much different than eight years in. We were already established. I had more employees working. It was not a lifestyle business at the very beginning. It was very hands-on, working on Sundays as well and just trying to build this thing up.
Yeah, I like it. I mean, you’re kind of flipping my script because generally I look at growth businesses as something maybe more valuable or has more potential or has certain advantages over lifestyle businesses. But certainly you’re opening my eyes up to the advantage of lifestyle businesses. And it really depends on the life of the individual that they want to live, whether they choose one or the other. That’s great. So, let’s talk about franchises and let’s talk about your framework that you have developed or you’re using, helping mentees pick a franchise. So someone you’re coaching, what do you look at? What are the three or four things that you look at to determine what could be a good franchise for them?
So, the first one I’m looking at is sales versus execution. Meaning how good of a salesperson is this person? Are they really sales heavy, the system, or is it more something that has an engine where I don’t care who that person is, it’s gonna be successful? The second thing I’m looking at is full versus part-time. There’s a kind of a misconception, Steve, in my industry that every single franchise business is flipping burgers in the back for a brick-and-mortar retail. That’s not the case. There are a lot of part-time or semi-absentee opportunities. The third framework is brick-and-mortar versus a service business. Again, misconception, franchising, first thought, quick service restaurant, fast food. My candidates I connect with 75 industries and many of them are non-brick-and-mortar businesses. In fact, 70 to 80% of my placements last year were non-brick-and-mortar. And that’s really an interesting way to kind of divide it between brick and mortar storefront and service companies.
So, give me an example of brick-and-mortar. So obviously a restaurant would be a brick-and-mortar unless it’s maybe a home delivery service. I don’t know. But what delineates between a brick-and-mortar and the pure service? What are the features of each?
The main definition of the difference is one is a storefront, like a restaurant of a fitness studio. And the second one does not have a storefront. Now, they might have a physical location to store product, but it’s not something that’s on Main Street and that’s retail.
Do you find that most franchises are B2C rather than B2B?
In my experience, many of franchises are B2C as opposed to B2B. There are B2B franchises, no question, but B2C tends to be more popular in my industry.
Do you have any insights as to why that may be?
I have no idea. It’s a great question. So, I mean, I think, look, if you look at a process, it’s got to be something that’s cookie cutter. And my only take on that is that, and look, there are commercial-related businesses. My business was B2B. I dealt with commercial cleaning. I’m sure you could appreciate that the local regulation in California, when it comes to doing services towards business, might be different than other places. That might be part of it, of regulation state by state.
So maybe when you have a B2C business, it’s easier to tailor it to a specific niche where it becomes pretty cookie cutter. You can systemize it and then teach someone to do it, whereas a B2B may be more distinct. I mean, the customers are more or less alike when it’s B2B than when it’s individuals?
That’s one theory. No one’s ever asked me more B2B or more B2C and more importantly why. I haven’t really spent much time thinking about that. That’s my theory.
Yeah, no, no, it’s very interesting. So, you’re talking about full-time and part-time, so how can someone run a franchise part-time?
So, number one, they have to be good. I have this really cool guy here in Houston and he ran a fitness studio. It was Pilates. He’s a pastor on the side. So he has his church. He’s just good with people. You gotta, hopefully, if you’re a successful pastor, you gotta be good with people. So, the way he ran it on the side is, in the morning, he sat down for coffee with his manager, Monday through Thursday, for an hour. And that’s how he kind of ran it. Went to his church, and then the next day he saw them at 8 to 9 AM. He had a good person that was running it day to day, and that’s actually one way of doing it part time. Every franchise system is different, but that’s one example of one way to do that. I have certain businesses that are more hands-off than others. If I think about a market like salon, suites, which are just kind of a situation where it’s a real estate play and very hands-off, no employees whatsoever, you take space and you rent it out to beauty professionals, pretty easy once this thing’s up and running to run it on your cell phone or your computer. I mean you don’t have any employees at all, it’s pretty hands-off.
Very interesting. What about the sales versus execution paradigm? And maybe I misunderstood, but you said that you’re looking at this person is good at sales or you can have a solution for them even if they’re not good at anything. I mean, you didn’t use this word exactly, but what did you mean by that? And is execution not a talent? Do people not have to be good at execution to run an all sales franchise?
So, look, let’s kind of talk about sales heavy franchises. I have franchises in my inventory where the requirement of the person running the business is they’ve got to be good at selling. They need to, it might not necessarily be door to door, but it’s got to be someone that’s comfortable and kind of showing their face and maybe even being the one going out on appointments or hiring to have someone like that. Or very quickly, many of them actually require the owner operator to actually be good at sales. In many ways, you’re buying a sales job. That’s one bucket. I’ve got another bucket of franchises. Sometimes things kind of fit in between where you don’t have to be a great salesperson. You could be someone that’s an amazing operator, but you hate selling. You might even hate face-to-face contact with customers. You might prefer to be in front of a computer. And look, my example for this is that I have businesses that have leads that are just coming, just unbelievable amount of leads. So, for instance, in Houston, where I live, in swim schools, it’s easier to get into private school than to get into a swim school. And that means that when my friend owns a swim instruction franchise, he has 200 kids on his waiting list. It becomes less of an issue of finding kids to actually swim than actually finding people that will be the swim instructors.
Yeah. So, some people say hiring is the new sales.
Yes.
Sometimes it’s selling people to be your employee on being at your employees is much harder and find the right people. So let’s switch gears here. Let’s talk about what makes a brand successful. So, you represent many brands. It’s hard to get to qualify, to be even on your roster of brands. What are the kind of brands that you want to work with that can have the potential to be successful?
So, look, I would say that what makes a brand successful, in my opinion, is if they’re able to create a network of franchisees that are successful themselves in making money. That’s the definition of success.
They have to do two things. They as a franchisor need to scale, number one, but number two, they need to make sure that their franchisees are happy.
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Keep in mind, Steve, these two things are sometimes not in alignment because you might be able to expand very rapidly, but you might have all these franchisees that are unhappy. To be able to do both is a win. Frankly, as a franchisor, that’s not easy. I mean, that’s really kind of, I mean, because there’s so many people that are in the franchising world and being able to achieve both of these is challenging.So, you’re basically running two businesses in one, is what you’re saying?
I’m saying that you got to expand and you need to take care of your franchisee base at the same time. That’s hard.
So you’re running your own business and then you’re building a different business, which is being a franchisor and you have to be able to juggle both.
So what I’m saying is, actually I’m not talking about running your own separate business. Let’s just say you just decided to go into the franchising world. You can be an amazing marketer. There’s stories about franchise brands that are amazing at selling, but horrible at execution with their franchise base. And then next thing you know, in a year or two, they’re all closing and they’re all unhappy. I’m saying that it’s two roles for the head office. Number one to actually expand, but number two, to actually make sure that they’re happy and this model’s good.
Yeah. But isn’t it the same for any business? They have to get new customers and then you have to serve those customers. So they need to use and they need the delivery skills at the same time.
Absolutely. Look, it’s the same thing, but this is a little bit more challenging because you’re herding cats. You’re dealing with all these people that want to be entrepreneurs, that have gone ahead and invested many times much of their life savings, and they have expectations from you. And sometimes these expectations aren’t in your disclosure document. And sometimes, frankly, the expectations aren’t realistic or aren’t reasonable. But that doesn’t matter. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They expect you to actually perform and to be making tons of money yesterday.
Yeah, that’s interesting. So what about the other side? So what makes for a successful franchisee?
Well, first thing is they have to find the right system, because it’s very hard to throw a dart and be like, oh my gosh, I found this amazing franchise. Another misconception in my industry is that people think, oh, all franchises are the same. That’s not the case at all. It’s kind of like a marriage. I see my role as being like eHarmony or Match.com where I’m trying to make this perfect fit. And presuming they have that perfect fit, I coach my candidates that they have to see themselves as being a silver bullet. And what I mean by that is, is that what makes a successful franchisee is someone that’s done everything in their power to be successful. One of my favorite mentors that I met when I was in Eastern Europe, at the beginning of my career, told me that the difference between excellence and average is just working 2% more. And so I liken that to being a franchisee. Have you made relations with the head office that you haven’t had before? Do you have people inside the system that are like you or that are mentors that you can cultivate and then you can kind of rely upon to satisfy, to actually do a little bit better from your business point of view.
So, a franchisee has to be a highly coachable person?
Absolutely. I mean, if you’re the kind of person and we can talk about this, but like if you’re the kind of person that that doesn’t want to have golden arches, you want to have golden circles and you want to sell kebabs instead of hamburgers, you probably shouldn’t be in the franchising world.
So, can an entrepreneurial person be a good franchisee in your opinion?
Absolutely, but there are different types of entrepreneurs. I think of myself as being an entrepreneur. I’m just the kind of entrepreneur that kind of needed help on the operations side. There are operational people that want better operational excellence. They want to be in a system. I mean, the successful franchisees, even ones that are very entrepreneurial minded that are willing to follow the system and see the value in the system come back to me. And they say to me, Adam, I want to thank you, because you have saved me by making these matches, all this money and mistakes I otherwise would have made.
So, who is the wrong candidate for a franchise? Let’s say someone coming out of corporate America and they had some level of success as an executive, they have the money to invest in a franchise, they need to find that new living. They are not yet 45, 50 years old. They can’t retire yet. So they have to make it successful and they still don’t work out. So, what prevents people from succeeding if they kind of have the high level criteria?
There are these black swan events like COVID. Where you buy a fitness franchise and then you get shut down, you’re undercapitalized. But in my opinion, the number one reason is it’s just a bad fit. They’ve done it on their own. They’ve actually decided to invest in something they probably shouldn’t have invested in before. If you do your homework and you find something that really fits what you’re looking for from a culture point of view and from a characteristic point of view, your odds of success are quite high.
But surely not everyone succeeds.
I get it.
Yeah. So, what happens? Why is it that some people don’t succeed?
So, if I look back at my past of things that haven’t worked out, it’s been a cultural fit. It’s been something where someone is a white collar person and they buy a blue collar business and they’re used to having all these things in corporate America. And then they’re in this business. It probably isn’t the right business for them. And then they say, wait a second here, I made the wrong choice. And it’s already too late. They realize, wait, I really don’t wanna be involved in a service business. I don’t wanna be managing these employees. I don’t wanna be making estimates. This is different than what I thought this might be. I’m used to working in my cush job, and this is not the right fit for me.
Yeah, I can see that. Do you find that the coach is able to eliminate most of these dead ends and can avoid the pitfalls that people can fall into?
I do, but I actually, look, I’m someone that comes from the IT industry, Steve. And what I would say is this, that I think there are two different things when it comes to IT errors. There’s user error and there’s a system error. And if I look at the, I can make the most amazing match in the world, it could be Chick-fil-A in an amazing location, but the person’s not gonna do the work, then it’s not gonna work out no matter what.
Okay, that’s fair. So let me ask you in closing, what is the most important question any entrepreneur should ask themselves in your opinion?
What’s their “Why?” I mean, in general, if it’s franchise or not. Meaning, why are you doing this? How does success look like for you? How do you measure success? What kind of KPM do you measure? I’m a huge Jesse Itzler fan. He’s the one that wrote a book. He’s one that married to Sarah Blakely. The Spanx founder, and just an amazing entrepreneur. And he has a different philosophy on different things. But look, it’s really understanding what you’re doing. And it’s not a question only about your business, but it’s about your life in general. And is your business, is this the kind of thing that’s really taking you to where you want it to take you to, your life in general?
Yeah, I feel the same way that, what’s your ideal life and the business can be a vehicle if you’ve got the right business to it. But what is it that you really want out of life and then maybe reverse engineer into the business that you need.
And look, that’s the number one reason why people invest in franchises. Because many people have this drive to start something. And a great franchise brand is a great vehicle to kind of get you there if it’s done right.
Okay, so a fascinating thing. There are a lot going for a franchise. So if people would like to explore whether they could be a good franchisee or whether there are franchise formats that could be exciting or inspiring for them, how should they go about this?
So, my company, Franchise Coach, provides a free service that’s a matchmaking service between potential franchisees and brands that are pre-screened that are in 75 different industries. And the next step is, if anyone’s interested in this, is to go ahead to my website, franchiseadam.com, schedule a quick 15-minute chat with me. If I don’t think you’re fit, I promise to let you know. Alternatively, you can go to franchisecoach.net to just find out a little bit more about our brand and also to just go ahead and to book a time there as well.
Okay. So, franchisecoach.net, franchiseadam.com.
That’s correct. That’s right.
So do check it out. So, Adam knows his stuff, I read his book. It’s a very good one. Franchisee Lifestyle. So if you’re interested to potentially become a franchisee, even if you are thinking about becoming a franchisor, I would recommend this book. It’s a good one. It’s a quick read too. And some customer stories as well. So you can really put yourself in the shoes of the franchisee and what they need to do. So, check out his book on Amazon and check out Adam’s websites and I think you’ll enjoy it. So, Adam, thanks for coming and sharing your perspectives on franchising. Fascinating. And those of you listening to the show. If you enjoy this, give us a like and review follow us on YouTube and help us push the show to a bigger audience. Thank you for coming and thanks for listening.
Important links: * Adam’s LinkedIn * FranchiseCoach.net * Book a 15-minute conversation with Adam * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Function Finder Chart™, Mentor Meeting Model™, and Your Company Why™
https://youtu.be/dxdFmUiiQdsMark Josephson, Executive Coach, three-time CEO with three exits, Founder, Advisor, and Investor, is driven by a mission to empower leaders and think big to achieve clarity, purpose, and lasting impact in their organizations and lives.
We learn about Mark’s journey from leading three companies to successful exits to coaching leaders and teams to unlock their potential. He explains the Wouldn’t It Be Great If framework, a four-step approach to setting ambitious goals: pushing away from the desk, asking bold questions, identifying what needs to be true to achieve them, and brainstorming without constraints. Mark also introduces the Balcony vs. Dance Floor framework, which helps CEOs balance strategic vision with operational focus. He shares lessons from his entrepreneurial journey and insights from his podcast Critical Moments.
Think BIG with Mark JosephsonGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Mark Josephson, Executive Coach, three-time CEO with three exits, Founder, Advisor, and Investor. Mark, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Steve. I’m so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Oh, it’s exciting to have you. You have built two companies up to exit. Oh sorry, three companies. That’s very impressive. And you’re advising other companies. And now you’re going to advise our listeners, which is very cool. So, let’s start with my favorite question, which is, what is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your practice?
Great question. I believe that we have a choice that we make every single day that we wake up to put goodness in the world or to take goodness out of the world. And I wake up every day, most days anyway, with the intention of helping the people I meet, the people I come across have better days than they did yesterday. It is that simple. I want to make a positive impact on the people around me. I will say that I have three goals as it relates to those “Why” more personally and I borrowed this from somebody else so I didn’t invent this but it resonated. Number one, I want to stay married to my wife. And I’m specific because that’s the most important relationship that I have in the world. We will be celebrating our 26th wedding anniversary next week. And we met in college and have been together for over 30 years. So it is the number one most important thing that I need to do every day is make sure my wife is happy. Number two is I want to be thin and fit and why I say that is because I want to live a long time. I want to be healthy. Another really important relationship in my life is with me and my health and well-being. So I want to take that seriously and the third goal, Steve, is that I want my sons and I’m blessed with three sons, 22, 20 and 17. I want them to call me when they need help. That’s it. I’m going to be really happy and healthy and will die a happy man if those things are true.
It sounds like that’s a great formula. Relationships, purpose, and more relationships. It helps. I mean, they say that these are the three most important things that are required for happiness, so, definitely, you seem to be on the right track. No surprises there. Well, before we talk about the framework, I’m curious about these three businesses that you ran and exited.
Sure.
Tell me a little bit about that. Is this, is all this private equity, what companies did you find them? How did you come about it?
Sure, so to start at 10,000 feet, I’ve spent 30 years in technology startups with being born and raised in dot-com one in the 1990s. And I was blessed to be at a high growth company that went public and sold. And I ended up having 12 different jobs in five years there, like truly a rocket ship kind of ride. That was a company called about.com. And I got my MBA in the world there. That was incredibly foundational for me. I have been the CEO three times. The first two times I was hired in, and the third time I was a founder. The first company was a company called Outside.in. In 2008, it was a Union Square Ventures company that was trying to organize the web’s information by location. We believe that the explosion of independent and self-publishing created a lot of news and information that would be a whole lot more valuable to people if they could place it in some context. It was 2008. The iPhone was just coming out. The intention was to build a consumer application. We ended up pivoting and building a B2B Sass platform for media companies to aggregate, curate and publish news and information at a lat long, at a very specific location. We sold that business to AOL in 2011. AOL at the time was making a big investment in local, and they had many problems, two specific problems in their business. The editorial costs were too high, and the ad products and monetization were too low. So the intent was to use the aggregation software platform that we built to improve the cost structure and efficacy of the team at AOL Local. I spent two and a half wonderful years there, loved almost every minute of it until I was called back to my calling, which is to be a leader at a high growth, smaller company. And the second company was link shortening company, Bitly. And you may know the bit.ly, the really small links.
Yeah, we use them.
So, Bitly is one of the most widely used and least understood businesses that I’ve come across. But even in 2013, when I joined the company, the global usage was in the billions, not in the hundreds of thousands, I mean, truly the billions. If the usage was here, monetization was here. So, over the first three years in that company, the usage kept growing, but we got monetization to the level that we were profitable and growing. And then we sold to private equity at that point, three years into Spectrum Equity, San Francisco and New York. I then spent three years inside of private equity, scaling the business a couple of times over that. The third time as the CEO, I made the classic case of hubris. I could start something after being hired in CEO. And I started a company with some venture funds called Cast Iron. And Cast Iron is Etsy for homemade food. And we sold that business to a private company in October of 2024. And it’s being expanded and growing. Yeah. So, pretty diverse set of things.
That’s good. That’s good experience. And now you’re here and you’re giving back. So please give something back to us in the form of a framework. What you talked about in our pre-interview is that, it’s really important for CEOs to be able to tap into the thinking of their team and to allow them and empower them to brainstorm well. So tell me about your framework, how to achieve that?
Sure. Let me start by saying this framework started as a conversation between my wife and me about our personal lives and our strategies that we’re trying to, how we wanted to live our lives. Our kids are getting older. The first one is about to finish high school. And I had, this was the time I was starting to think about leaving Bitly, like, all of that stuff was going on. I remember ‘cause I had a cocktail, she had a glass of wine, and we pushed back and we’re thinking, I said, wouldn’t it be great if I never had to ride New Jersey Transit ever again? And wouldn’t it be great if I could be at every single one of our son’s lacrosse games his senior year of high school? Because I’d missed 90% of them before. And there’s a bunch of other things. But what that turned into was a plan to make those things happen. We weren’t looking at the next week saying, how do I make that game on Wednesday at 3? Because that’s actually really hard to do. I’ve got a meeting, I’m going to be in the city, I’ve got employees, I’ve got all this stuff. But it’s actually almost easier to say, how do I go to every game versus go to any one individual game? And the reality of the world and the wall that’s in front of you at that time makes it really difficult to make those decisions and those leaps. So that’s translated into a framework that I use with my clients today, and it’s Wouldn’t It Be Great If. And Wouldn’t It Be Great If is just that, it is freeing yourself. I urge my clients to literally push back from the keyboard, sometimes put their feet up. If it’s late in the day, let’s have a drink. But let’s think about why you started this business or you’re in the job. What are your personal motivations? Is it to win or is it to just get by? What are your hopes and dreams that you want to accomplish in this business? And oftentimes I’m encouraging them or unlocking for them the true ambition that they have, which is to be really big and really successful and build the best software company in the world. That’s why you start these things. And they can be really big and meaningful. And a great example, and then I’ll talk about how we use it, is a lot of my clients just went through annual planning. An annual planning is a really complex way of exercise and negotiation with the leadership team, with your investors, with your own hopes and dreams. And I had a client came back and said, just had the team, we approved the plan. We’re going to grow it 46% next year. And I said, okay, is that really what you want to do? It’s like, oh, well, you know, our run rates, the marketing says they need more budget, sales is telling me about a product and all that stuff. And I said, but Billy, not his real name, wouldn’t it be great if you doubled next year? And it’s not outside the realm of possibility, in the growth stage of the company. And he said, well, I don’t even know how to think about that. I said, so let’s push back. Wouldn’t it be great if you doubled next year? That’s the first question. The second question is, what needs to be true for that to happen? Well, we’d need to hire 10 more salespeople and have them ramped by the end of Q1. Oh, we need to reduce churn by 15%. We would need to add a new product and move up market. But then you just keep working backwards to what would need to be true and you stack rank them and you start to attack them. And that is, Wouldn’t It Be Great If in a nutshell, is jumping far into the future, to the future you want, and then working backwards around what needs to be true in order for that to happen.
I love it. That’s great. It’s great future pacing, I think some people call this. Wonderful. So that’s your framework. Do you have a name for it?
Wouldn’t It Be Great If.
Okay. That’s the Wouldn’t It Be Great If framework.
Yes.
Love it. So let’s switch gears here and let’s talk about your podcast. So you have a podcast, Critical Moment. Tell me why you started this and what is your mission with it?
Thank you for asking. So I’m so passionate about the entrepreneurial journey and the leadership journey. The leadership journey that so many of my peers and my clients and my associates are in the middle of, and I’m sure so many of our listeners. And what I found when I looked at the landscape of podcasts, and the world doesn’t need another podcast from somebody like me, but what I do think it needs is a different kind of story. And the bell curve of startups and entrepreneurs, there’s a lot written about this over here, there’s a lot written and talked about over here, but there’s not a lot about the fat, meaty part in the middle, which is real people building real careers, real companies and real lives in tech. And so what I want to do and mean to do with critical moments is not get on the phone, a call with somebody and ask them, tell me your journey, tell me the tropey kind of, it’s not how I built this. It is one specific moment that can be really big, such as one of my guests talked about having the company just about sold, thought it was sold. A nine-figure deal, and to the point where the eight offices of the company all had t-shirts and cupcakes and champagne for the new company, for the acquirer. The top 50 people in the company had already been told what their new comp plans were by the buyer, and the next 50 people knew they were getting laid off in the transaction. That’s how real this was until the phone rang. And it was the head of Corp Dev saying, I never thought I’d have to make this call. That’s the critical moment. What were you doing? What did you do? And what did you learn from that, like real specific things that happen? I had a really powerful episode with a leader, she’s gone on to be incredibly successful. But it was the first time she was up for a C-level job in a promotion and she didn’t get it and she asked why and the CEO said, because people don’t like you. Could you imagine that moment being told that as a grown up professional who’s killing it by the way, and every single metric that the company measured itself on. And so there are critical moments in everyone’s career. Those are just two powerful examples. There’s lots of other ones as well. But I want to normalize the roller coaster of the journey and show that there are moments every day in our careers and our moments that we can learn from and make them more real.
Yeah, I mean, these tipping point moments, they really reset careers. And I have found that often when these critical moments happen, then we already are facing a flattening learning curve. And even though this is a shock, it pushes us to expose ourselves to another learning curve, and then it can become a really beneficial shift.
Yeah, and I don’t usually think about it this way, but when you’re building muscle, like the practice of lifting weights actually creates micro tears in your muscles that then have to form back over, like, and it’s kind of painful. If you’re doing it right. And that stuff happens every day. And the things that I’m most interested in in those conversations, which I think is really relevant to leaders, is how do you respond in the moment? And like, how do you react? What were you thinking when you got that feedback? Like, do you remember what room you were in? Who was the first person you called? Because you can see great leaders tune their instincts the right way and can do that. And I think you can prepare for that a little bit. If I’m ever in a situation, it’s okay to say, let me take a minute to think about that, for example. I also think there’s really important learnings that we could share. So for example, one of the biggest takeaways from that episode of the acquisition, which didn’t go through, was there were two things. One is that he had never met the CEO of the acquirer. Tried 15 times and they said, it’s just not necessary. It’s just, you don’t need, trust me, it’s a big buyer. Like it wasn’t like out of the ordinary that you wouldn’t ever get to meet the acquirer CEO. But what happened was in the final meeting, which was supposed to be a rubber stamp, because everybody but the CEO had approved it at this point, the deal’s champion was out sick. And so the champion’s, number two, had to defend the deal to the CEO who said, what? And so number one, he’s like, I’m never going to not meet the CEO of an acquirer ever again. And number two, I’m going to build champions up and down the organization and across the organization so that they can stay. Anyone can stand up and defend this opportunity. Wow, that’s so helpful to hear for anybody who is maybe a first time CEO in a conversation with a potential acquirer.
And don’t pick a champion who is prone to sickness.
Yes, that’s right.
Strong enough.
Healthy. You want a healthy champion for sure.
Awesome. So what is the most important question in your opinion a CEO should ask themselves on a regular basis?
I think it’s really important to elevate. So another framework that I use is Balcony vs. Dance Floor. And that’s the difference between working in the business and on the business. And I think it’s really important that CEOs spend time in the balcony. And I think it’s really important that CEOs actually get away from their laptop and go for a walk or go for a run or whatever it is that one does to invest in themselves because it is a fact and research proves this, that when you stop thinking about the problem in front of you and think about something else, your brain is still working on it. And it will come through. We all know this experience that happens to us, but you can manufacture that time. And I think the most important question that a CEO needs to ask themselves, ask herself on a regular basis is, what am I trying to do here and am I doing that? Really, what am I trying to do with this company and with this opportunity? There’s a lot of objective strategies and tactics, but I started this company because I wanted to achieve X, or I took an investment in this company and I told them that I was gonna get to Y. The difference between being on the dance floor and getting jostled and moved around versus the balcony saying, am I really doing what I set out to do here? The best CEOs I’ve met are methodical about their focus on the top of the mountain. It’s the ones who start to take paths and wind and get distracted that becomes really problematic.
Do you recall a moment when you asked yourself this question and you decided to shift what you were doing?
Better than that or worse than that I’m not sure. In the moment it felt worse. I remember being asked by an investor, actually I wasn’t asked, I was told, Mark, I have no idea what you’re trying to do with this company. What are you trying to do? I mean, that was a critical moment for me because I was like, what do you mean? We have board decks, we have strategy conversations, we have like all this stuff. But what the question really was is like, I don’t understand, you’re doing a lot, but why, to what effect? Are we moving up market? Are we cannibalizing somebody else’s business? Is it a competitive thing? Are you trying to get to 100 million so you can do A, B and C? Like, let’s have like the real conversation about what you’re trying to do. I know you’re operating. I know you’re growing. But what are you really trying to do? It’s a hard question. I remember it.
Even when you have a vision, this can be a relevant question to ask.
Yeah, I think so. And I think it’s a very basic one. And you asked the question about personal “Why” at the beginning, and it’s the same question. It’s what are you trying to do here? Because when you’re a leader and you can clearly define that, it’s actually a superpower. Because one, people want to help you. They will know how to help you. That turns into plans that you can roll to your team and goals you can roll to your team that ladder up to that objective. And every employee I’ve ever met broadly wants to be successful. And as the leader and the CEO, you define what success looks like in your organization, and they can’t read your mind. You have to be clear about it.
Yeah, I love it. That’s very powerful. And I think people are hungry for purpose in life. And most people don’t have a self-awareness or they don’t have the context or they don’t have the perspective to be able to come up with a worthy purpose. And if they can tap into a company, if they work for a company that has something that is exciting and attractive and they can latch onto it, it can really energize them to bring their life and soul to the company.
There’s an incredible piece that I read, and I’m going to tell the story wrong, but hopefully communicate what I want to communicate, is it’s around starting with “Why.” And it tells the story of the difference between Apple and, I’m going to say, Hewlett-Packard, HP. Both make consumer electronics. And 15, 20 years ago, they were probably making very similar products. But one feels very different than the other, and why? And when Steve Jobs would get up and talk about why you want to have the music in your pocket, why you want this all in one device versus a we are going to create a printer for you that’s going to do this many dots per inch and this many pages per minute. It’s like the feature, feature, feature versus the world is changing.
How do you put a dent in the universe? I love the Steve Jobs quote to Joe Scully when he enticed him over to Pepsi and he asked the question that, do you want to sell sugar water to kids or come with me and change the world?
That’s right. Yeah, and I don’t think it’s wrong to say that you can find a “Why” in most businesses in just about any business. It doesn’t have to be change the world. I always err on trying to find the change in the world or change our part of the world in the businesses that I’m in. But the truth is, is that businesses change and landscapes change and competitive marketplaces change. And in my very first job, I worked at a marketing firm, and I remember as we were developing strategic narratives for companies and positioning, you start with the four quadrants and you want to be upper right, but if the world is defining upper right as something that you’re not. I remember erasing the Axies names and writing in new ones so that we were upper right in redefining that and leading the world to that new tomorrow.
Yeah, love it. All right, well, Mark, thank you for coming and sharing your wisdom with our listeners. So if people would like to learn more or connect with you or get you, hire you perhaps, where should they go?
They can find me in three places. The first is on LinkedIn. I’m more active than I want to be, but I actually do love LinkedIn and the connections that I have there. You can find me on LinkedIn. My website is markjosephson.net. And if you want to hire me for coaching, if you want a one-off conversation or two, you can find me on intro.com, and you can book a meeting with me there.
Awesome. So, Mark Josephson, three-time CEO with three exits, Founder, Advisor, Investor, and Coach. Thanks for coming. And those of you who enjoyed this conversation, make sure you follow us on YouTube, you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, give us a review and so on, and keep coming back because every week we have a wonderful entrepreneur or CEO coming to share with us their wisdom. Thanks for coming, Mark, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Mark’s LinkedIn * Mark Josephson * Critical Moments Podcast * Relevant Summit OS® tools: Mentor Meeting Model™, Vision & Strategy Map™, and Your Company Why™
https://youtu.be/Z94HeM1PJP4Brad Chandler, Chief Transformative Officer of LimitlessYou, is driven by a mission to help high achievers discover their entrepreneurial happiness, unlock subconscious beliefs, and live lives of freedom, connection, and joy.
We learn about Brad’s journey from a successful career in real estate to founding LimitlessYou, where he empowers individuals to identify and overcome the root causes of their struggles. He explains the Three R’s Framework—Realize, Recode, Rewrite—a transformative process that rewires negative subconscious patterns and helps clients reclaim their lives. He highlights the importance of self-love as the foundation for success, shares insights on breaking generational cycles of limiting beliefs, and discusses his vision of making transformative tools accessible to everyone globally.
—Discovering your Entrepreneurial Happiness with Brad ChandlerWelcome to this episode of the Management Blueprint. My guest today is Brad Chandler, Chief Transformative Officer for LimitlessYou. LimitlessYou helps high achievers rewrite their stories and create a life of freedom, connection, and joy. I’m Krista Crawford, your host for today’s episode. Brad, thank you so much for carving out your busy schedule. Welcome, welcome.
Thanks for having me.
We’re going to cover quite a few topics today, so let’s just go right ahead and dig in. One of the first that I like to ask is, what’s your personal “Why,” and what are you doing to manifest it?
Oh, I love it. My personal “Why” is something I figured out three and a half years ago. It took me 47 years of living, and that is to help people unlock these hidden beliefs in their subconscious mind that is driving the behavior that’s not serving them, whether it’s their businesses failing or struggling or cash flow issues or relationship issues or addiction, anxiety, depression, anything like that. Almost always those things are being driven by this subconscious beliefs that were formed decades ago. So my “Why” is to impact as many, I want to help a million people erase these limiting beliefs so they can live the life and have the relationships that they deserve.
I’m going to go ahead and follow up with that one. What’s a good example, obviously not giving the person’s name, but what’s an example of where you helped someone discover something from the past that was keeping them from moving forward?
Yeah, I mean, a text I got about 8 months ago was from a client that said, thank you for changing my life and my family’s life. And he came to me, his relationship with his wife was on the brink of divorce. And after doing the work with him, he realized some things from childhood that was affecting his relationship with his wife and that he really couldn’t recall. We always remember everything. Remembering it means it’s in your subconscious. Everything is stored in your subconscious, but we often can’t recall it because it’s painful. Fast forward a year and a half after working with him and his marriage is amazing, and I never met with his wife. I never had a marriage counseling session because relationship problems aren’t ever the actual relationship. It’s a relationship each individual has with themselves. So he’s a good example of one of the hundred people that we’ve helped over the years.
I’m glad you mentioned issues that take place earlier. One of the questions I also like to ask is, think back to your, let’s say 13, 14, 15 year old self. What did you think you would be doing at this stage in your life now?
What I did for most of my life, and that is real estate and making lots of money because as a child, love was shown to me through money. And then we had so many money problems in our house that I figured, well, at 10 years old, my mom and dad got divorced and my dad stopped paying. And so at one point in time, my mom said, we may lose the house that I lived in since I was born, and we may have to move into public housing. And I visited that public housing with her as a nurse because she used to go on visits there, and I heard there were shootings there. So my little 10-year-old brain likely said, if you don’t have enough money, you lose your house and you go to public housing and you get shot and you die. And maybe that’s why I got into housing and maybe that’s why at any given time I own over a hundred houses. So I always thought from ninth grade, when I read a book on how to buy real estate with no money down, that I would build this real estate empire, ‘cause I need a lot of money, ‘cause that was gonna make me happy and safe and secure.
So what is that relationship between money and happiness?
So most entrepreneurs get into business thinking that if I can get to this place, and this place is usually a number, I can get $5 million in the bank, if I can make a million dollars a year, if I can get a $10 million retirement account, then I’m going to be happy, I’m going to be fulfilled, I’m going to have a sense of purpose, I can prove to the world that I’m enough.
But it doesn't matter how much money you have, you'll never get there. It has nothing to do about the money.
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And if you don’t believe me, ask Michael Jackson, Prince, Kurt Cobain, Matthew Perry. The list goes on and on and on. They had all the money. The irony, Krista, is that in a five-week program, I can teach someone how to get that state that they think is going to come years down the road from all this money. You can get that today. And when you get that today, that state, that inner peace, the chances of you making money exponentially go up because money does not bring you happiness. Happiness actually brings you money. They’ve done studies. They took college graduates, thousands of them, and they ranked their happiness. And then they looked at their income earnings 10, 20, 30 years out. And the graduates who were happier always made more money.
I want to keep talking about this happiness because this is crucial to what you do with LimitlessYou. You want to describe some more about LimitlessYou, like what happens in general without giving away your trade secrets? What’s the process?
I’m going to explain the process of why is it that human beings can’t stop a negative behavior? Why is it that they struggle in their marriages and eating and with food and drugs? Every negative behavior in the world can come down to this little explanation. The negative behavior is actually a solution, your mind’s solution to something that it perceives as worse. This thing that once you do the deep dive, and we do it through hypnosis, and hypnosis is nothing more than a deeply relaxed state where we can access your subconscious mind, we look at what’s over here that is more painful than the addiction or the shutting down of your spouse or whatever it is, the depression. And every time we find this thing over here was created in childhood as a way to protect yourself from something that was traumatic or stressful or a time when you didn’t get your needs met. And guess what? It’s always an untruth. So what we do is we show your brain that times in your life either real or imagined because your brain doesn’t know the difference of when it was true and then your brain is like, has a mismatch detector. It’s like ding ding ding ding ding. Your brain can’t hold two conflicting thoughts and what we do with this process Krista is we literally rewrite the neural pathway. It’s like going into cell A6 of an Excel spreadsheet and deleting a hundred and putting in 200. We’re rewriting it. When we rewrite that negative pathway that’s driving the negative behavior, what do you think happens to the negative behavior?
It goes away.
It goes away because there’s nothing driving it. But after, I went to 30 years of therapy, I went to 50 different marriage counseling sessions. What most therapists and life coaches and psychologists and psychiatrists want to do is they want to focus on the thing that you come to them with as a solution to a problem, but they want to be stuck on the solution. Oh, you have anxiety, Krista. Let’s talk to you about how we can do breathing exercises. No! That sh*t will never work. You’ve got to get to the source of what is driving the issue that you want to heal or fix. That’s the magic in what we do. And unfortunately, it’s done by probably one one-hundredth of a percent of life coaches and therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists. Don’t ask me why. I mean, actually, they just figured this out 20 something years ago. They thought that as a child, when you create an emotional learning, mom didn’t give me a cookie at five years old so I told her I hated her. She cried for two hours because of her emotional state and then dad came home and spanked me and said don’t you ever make mommy feel that way. So the emotional learning is if I am my authentic self, people will remove their love from me. And I think going back six million years of our primitive brain, we lived in tribes for 98% of that time. So if you upset the tribe leader, what happens to you? You get kicked out of the tribe and you die. So that emotional learning from Freud up to 100 years after his death, they felt that that was imprinted in your mind and could never be changed. In this particular example is if I’m my authentic self, love will get taken from me. They didn’t realize literally until 2020 that you could rewrite that new neural pathway. So you’re probably like well they’re probably teaching that now in medical school and psychology. No, they’re not. What do they want to do? What does Western medicine want to do? They want to diagnose you. What’s wrong with you? They want to give you a label. You’ve got bipolar, you’re depressed, whatever and then they can give you a drug because there’s a lot of money in drugs. There’s a hundred million Americans on an anti-anxiety or anti-depression drug today. I had a doctor on my show, my podcast, How to Be Happy Entrepreneurs, about a month ago, and I said, doctor, there’s a hundred million Americans on anti-anxiety and anti-depression. How many of those people should be on it? Do you know what his answer was?
No.
A big fat zero. None of them should be on it because it doesn’t really work. Getting to the root cause and solving why you’re feeling this way works because not one American or human being on this planet was born with depression or anxiety.
It was learned, and if it was learned, it can be unlearned. So that's what we do. We teach the brain how to recode.
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Fantastic. So who do you read? Do you have a particular author or scientists, or do you have particular people that you follow?
We do. I mean, there’s so many great ones out there. Dr. Joe Dispenza, amazing, absolutely amazing, all based on neuroscience and how you change the mind and that changed the body. I’ve studied under a guy and read most of his, another doctor, Dr. Gabor Mate, who’s been doing this work for 40 years. We also studied under this famous therapist from the UK called Marissa Peer. So those are three of the folks that we love to.
Fantastic. So you’ve had employees over time that have worked for you, whether real estate or doing the work that you do now. How do you think those employees describe your leadership style? How would they describe you?
Well, now all I talk about is self-love. They would probably just, not the old Brad, because I went through this massive transformation three and a half years ago trying to get my son help for anxiety. I realized that I have issues from my childhood that were affecting everything in my life. I made five business mistakes that cost me $9 million between 2005 and 2017. I had two failed marriages. I had kids with behavioral problems. I used to use weed and alcohol on a regular basis. All of that has changed. Everything has completely changed. So, the old Brad, they would have classified as always changing his mind, hard driving, not empathetic, just all over the place, chaos. The new Brad is controlled. The new Brad is methodic. The new Brad is empathetic, loving, kind, really cares.
Wonderful. You shared with me that you have the three R’s that you like to follow in terms of a business process. Share with the audience.
Yeah, and this is specifically for helping someone change their life, their business, their health, whatever, their relationships. Realize, the three R’s, the first one is realize. How in the world can you change a behavior when you don’t know the source of it? Most everyone comes to me, they’re like, oh, my childhood was great. And after five minutes of talking to them and figuring out their dad was never around or their dad hit their mom or they were poor as can be and they always fought about money, I’m like, well, there’s some things there because otherwise you wouldn’t be coming to me with this anxiety or capital issues or whatever it is. So most people just don’t know. I want to change, but I don’t know what it is that is driving what I can’t change. So you got to be aware. So that’s what we do, we realize. The second R is recode, and that’s the example I gave where we just literally, through neuroplasticity, rewrite the neural pathway that’s holding the underlying untruths that are driving your negative behavior. And then third is rewrite.
You get to take back of your life and your story and manifest your dreams.
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If you’re listening to this and you’re struggling, your business is struggling, you have employees coming and going, your cash flow is bad, you’ve got a bad relationship with your wife or your husband, your kids have behavioral problems, issues with grades. None of this stuff is your fault and you deserve more. And you’ve probably like, well, I went to therapy and I tried this. Well, I get it, I did too, but there’s a better way. So whether it’s me or Yvonne or someone completely outside of us, just know that your life can change in ways that you probably can’t even imagine and can change quicker than you ever expected. We now see massive changes in our clients between hour three and five. I went to hundreds maybe thousands of hours of therapy and I got more out of a three-hour session with this ex-navy seal in a Airbnb bedroom in Park City, Utah, three and a half years ago.
You brought up Yvonne. So, experience with having a family business Any tips for those people listening out that may have a family business? Many businesses in this country have some family relationship involved. Any offerings?
Yeah, it’s the same advice if you ask me, hey, my kids behave terribly, they have anxiety, or my marriage is really bad. It’s the same advice I’d give you, and that is rebuild a connection with yourself. My two previous marriages were two people who didn’t feel enough, and so we’re always battling for our worthiness. Yvonne and I, while we’re not perfect, we have done so much work that we can have these really tough conversations about money, about our future, about parenting, all of that. When you feel not enough, it is so hard to have those conversations and open up because your childlike brain is telling you if you open up, something bad is going to happen. So that’s my advice. If you run a family business, you actually go take our quiz at unlocklimitlessyou.com/quiz and in three minutes, it’s only 12 questions, it will tell you if you have some of these underlying things. So if you take that and you get lack of self-love and you’re super overweight or you struggle with food or drugs or porn or your business sucks or your marriage sucks. This is the reason you now know. It’s because of the relationship you have with yourself and it wasn’t always like that. You weren’t born like that. So you can heal that, you can repair it and everything can change in a good way.
Thank you for sharing that. So what are you working on now? What’s the next step? Are you introducing any new programs? What’s on the horizon for you and the organization?
Yep, a couple months ago, we rolled out two different masterminds. We have weekly masterminds now that’s open to anybody. They meet on Wednesdays and Thursdays at noon. Yvonne’s running those. They’re literally like workshops on how to be happier, how to make your business better. Not from a standpoint of like marketing, but most people. The gentleman who brought me through my transformation, ex Navy SEAL, he was working with these powerful CEOs and he’d go in and they’d be like, we need help with our company. And I think it’s marketing or employees or this manager. And after about, I don’t know how many five, 10, 15, he’s like, the problem doesn’t lie with any of them. The problem lies with your mind and your thinking. That’s how we created this whole thing.
So we teach people how to, again, heal themselves so that their business can explode.
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Almost everyone we’ve worked with is seeing more success from their business. We are creating just more program for the masses. For the people who can’t afford our normal program, we’re creating other programs. Because my ultimate goal, Krista, is to have an app or a program that the young lady in India, who has four dollars to her name and is thinking about taking her life, can actually get on this app and help save her life. So that’s our long-term vision is to build something that can actually change the world.
Fantastic. Any advice for entrepreneurs just getting started now?
Yeah. So on our resources tab of our website, we have a thing called The root calls or finding your “Why.” It’s one of those two. Yvonne has put all these together. It’s a seven levels deep question. So what I want you to do is I want you to ask yourself, why is it that I want to start a business? Or what is it that I’m trying to achieve? And then when you answer that question, I want you to ask the next question, why is that important? And then I want you to do that six more times. So it’s seven levels deep, because when I look back at why I got into real estate, I got into real estate because I wanted to make a bunch of money because I didn’t feel enough. I took my favorite class, Krista, at Virginia Tech with psychology. I walked out of that class and I said, man, this is the best class I’ve ever taken, but there’s no money in here. I can’t make a lot of money in psychology, so I’m not going to do it. And here I am, 30 something years later, and I’m kind of doing psychology.
So the advice is make sure that you're not like most entrepreneurs that are trying to make a bunch of money to prove something to the world. Go figure out exactly what your purpose in life is.
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And I don’t know, about six months ago in one of these mastermind sessions that we do, we did a very light meditation or hypnosis where we got everyone in a deeply relaxed state. And then we took them back to childhood and we asked them between the ages of five and ten, what was it that they really love to do? That thing that they really love to do, there’s a good chance that it’s 26, 36, 56. That’s the thing that you really love to do. Go find what you really love to do and do it and the money will come. What I shifted from is I shifted from trying to make a bunch of money to make myself feel better to now I’m trying to make an impact. And since I made that switch three years ago, Krista, my net worth has gone up much, much more than any other three-year period in my life because now I’m focused on helping people and making an impact rather than trying to make myself feel better.
What have I not asked you that we can’t leave today without you sharing with the group?
You asked some amazing questions. I think the most important thing, and I may have addressed this, is no matter what you’re going through, it’s not your fault. It is not your fault. Stop asking what’s wrong with me and start asking what happened to me. After you listen to this, I say it’s not your fault. It doesn’t mean you don’t have responsibility. After you’ve listened to this, now you have an awareness. You can go take the self-love quiz and see if that’s what’s driving the negative behavior. Now it’s up to you to do something. Are you going to listen to this and just make this another podcast? Are you going to actually do something? Because someone’s going to listen to this that’s going to take a step in a journey that’s going to forever change their life. And honestly, it’s generations to come because what we do, Krista, when you don’t feel enough, there’s no chance your parents felt enough. So we’re in this multi-generational curse, and that’s just passing this down to our kids. What’s the absolute best gift you can ever give a child? It’s to break the multi-generational curse. How do you do that? You teach their kids how to love themselves unconditionally. If you take the quiz and you have mild self-love or lack of self-love, you don’t love yourself unconditionally, how in the world can you teach your child to do that? You can’t. So go figure out how to find that, how to love yourself unconditionally, love yourself like you would a best friend, and then literally, your family will change for generations to come.
I have to ask, your passion comes across so clearly, have you always been such a passionate person?
No, I was mostly passionate. I was scared I was the guy who for 47 years said I don’t care about what other people think. I love myself. I have all this confidence and it was all a lie. I was a scared little child who was trying everything desperately to make millions and millions of dollars because I thought that was going to solve my problem. So I was more scare than I was passionate. Now, I’m passionate because I have literally lived this. I’ve gone from broken to closer to whole. And I can’t tell you how profoundly my life has changed. And I just, I know everyone is capable of this. Literally everyone’s capable with a couple of weeks of work. And I just can’t shout from the mountaintops loud enough to say, you don’t need to suffer anymore, you don’t need to struggle. There’s a better way.
Brad, how can people find out more about you and your business?
Unlocklimitlessyou.com is the website. If you do unlocklimitlessyou.com/brad, that has everything. It has all my social media, it has the self-love quiz, it has our podcast, it even has my cell phone number. So if you’re really suffering, if you’re really struggling, go pick up the phone and call me, text me. I will take your call. I’m not going to charge you. I just want to help you. If it’s me, if it’s Yvonne, if I’ve got to refer you to someone else, whatever it is, just don’t spend another day struggling or suffering.
Thank you so much. And that concludes this episode of the Management Blueprint.
Important Links:* Brad’s LinkedIn * LimitlessYou * Krista Crawford’s LinkedIn
https://youtu.be/-7x5kBxJ5igBen Larman, Scientific Founder and Chief Scientific Officer (CSO) of Infinity Bio, is driven by a passion for advancing human health by decoding the complexities of the immune system.
We discuss Ben’s Antibody Reactomics Framework and his Complex Data Delivery Framework. The Antibody Reactomics Framework leverages DNA barcoding to analyze immune responses, providing researchers with groundbreaking insights into human health and disease mechanisms. The Complex Data Delivery Framework streamlines the process of communicating scientific findings by focusing on understanding customer needs, analyzing data, presenting positive results, and combining findings to deliver customized insights. He also shares how AI is transforming biomedical research and the importance of refining a biotech company’s narrative to effectively engage diverse audiences.
—Simplify Complexity with Ben LarmanGood day, dear listener, Steve Breda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Ben Larman, the Scientific Founder and CSO of Infinity Bio, a technology company that measures individual immune responses against all known human viruses, autoimmune conditions and allergies. Ben, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Steve. Great to be here.
My favorite question for you. So what is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your company?
Great. Well, yeah, I’ll start by saying I guess I became an immunologist by training because I believe there is an incredible opportunity to improve human health by better understanding immune responses and the immune system. The immune system is incredibly complex. It’s sort of, we’re just scratching the surface now in terms of our understanding and how it’s connected to so many different health conditions ranging, as you mentioned, from infections to cancer, to autoimmune disease, to allergies. The ability to move technology forward in a way that allows us to take better measurements and understand human immune responses at a population scale, that’s always motivated me. And so that’s what we formed Infinity Bio to accomplish by being able to read antibodies.
Okay. And when you read antibodies, so how does that inform you? How does it help you fight immune conditions? I guess you can call it.
Yeah, so antibodies, I think we all sort of have seen the cartoons of these Y-shaped molecules. I think what a lot of people don’t appreciate is the massive abundance and diversity of these molecules in our blood at all times. So there’s roughly 100 trillion antibody molecules in every drop of blood, and they really store the information from all of our prior immune responses, going back to your vaccinations in childhood. And one way to think about them, they’re expressed by cells in our immune system in response to very specific targets. They have these ridges and bumps on them, and that’s what allows them to very specifically recognize their target, whether it’s flu or a cancer antigen. And so what we’ve done is to create a technology that you can think of like a record player where the record, your old vinyl records with those grooves and bumps read out by a needle, that’s sort of what we’re doing with molecules, reading out those bumps and grooves to know what they bind to and get a picture of your immune system. Antibodies are really a wonderful window into your immune system and everything that it has tried to accomplish over your lifetime.
So that’s an amazing complexity. You said trillions of antibodies in a drop of blood.
Yeah.
That’s very, very minuscule and very numerous. So how do you measure this data or process even this data? How do you then communicate this data is about?
And actually you develop a framework around this. So can you tell me a little bit about how that came about and what’s its significance is and how does it work?
Yeah, so the approach that we’ve taken and that I’ve sort of worked on since grad school is to try and convert the antibody target interaction question into a DNA synthesis and sequencing problem, which is something that is much more approachable because DNA technologies have advanced so dramatically over the past couple of decades, both in our ability to create DNA molecules and our ability to read them. And so without going into too much technical detail, we basically have created a system, a technology, for producing large collections of proteins that could be targeted by antibodies and putting DNA barcodes on them. So, these are just sequences that associate what that target is. And so we can take someone’s blood sample and we basically mix it with this collection of molecules and we pull out the molecules that are bound to the antibodies and use DNA sequencing to read it out. It allows us to take advantage of those advances in DNA technologies to measure all the different things that someone’s antibodies bind to. And so, just to give you a sense for the scope of a particular test that we offer at Infinity Bio for all the viruses, as you mentioned, we test antibodies against about 285,000 different viral targets. These are proteins, fragments of proteins that are associated with all the viruses known to infect humans. And so, for each sample, we get a result that says, okay, these are the proteins that are recognized by that sample’s antibodies, and these are the proteins that are not recognized by that person’s antibodies. So, at the basic level, we’re generating sort of like a report for each sample. We typically work with investigators who have sets of samples, some from individuals with a particular disease, for instance, like type 1 diabetes, and a set of samples from individuals that don’t have that. And they would like to know what is the difference between these groups of individuals in terms of which viruses they’ve been infected with, and maybe to an even more detailed level, during those infections, what were the specific targets of those antibodies? And by comparing the groups, we could identify things that may actually be mechanistically causally associated with the ultimate disease that these individuals developed. And so communicating that data is a challenge. It’s a very deep data set that we typically will deliver in a way that can be opened with Excel, but they can be very large files depending on the number of samples that we’ve tested. So we have an amazing informatics team at Infinity Bio, but it’s really been something of a learning process for us over the last year as we’ve been operational and returning data sets to folks is how can we do it in a way that provides them the most insight into the question that they’re really trying to ask. And I think we’ve learned several lessons that we’ll be able to improve the way that we deliver data and insights to our customers going forward.
I think that AI will be able to provide a really important resource in this area.
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Because really what people want to know a lot of times is what is the difference between the groups and then how is that related to all the scientific research about whatever that difference is? So, it may be the case that we identify three different viruses that are associated with the disease. What’s known about that already? It may take someone a long time to go in and mine the literature to figure out what is that connection, whereas an AI, generative AI, can help dig out the papers that are most meaningful, most cited, or whatever it is, to help them really interpret that information.
So, Ben, what are the steps then of your process to communicate this really complex information that could potentially overwhelm the recipient?
Yeah, great question. So, it’s a process that will change because up till now, we’ve really been returning the datasets without as much conversation upfront as we should have been having to really understand what they want to learn from their data. And going forward,
we'll want to engage our customers in a more thorough way and prepare an analysis in that first data return.
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Right now, we’re returning data, we’ve been returning data in a way that’s sort of generic. And we say, okay, take a look at your data. Let’s get together and figure out how to answer your question. Going forward we’ll put more of an emphasis on let’s come up with an analytic plan ahead of time so that when we return those results in the first instance, you get your generic reports and your generic data, but we also give you an analysis that’s specific to your question.
Now, one of the things you mentioned in our earlier discussion is that when you present a mix of positive and negative results, then customers often get confused and sometimes less is more. The more you give them, the more confused they are and you have to somehow curate the information so that they can actually use it. How does that work?
Yeah, we’ve all had the experience of going to the grocery store and looking for butter and seeing 13 different options and being overwhelmed. And that has definitely been the case for some of our customers returning multiple sets of files that they’re sort of not sure which ones to go into first if they want to be very thorough. And we need to do a better job of distinguishing for them. Here’s the key results. And in antibody reactome profiling, we take these very large libraries, these collections of proteins, most of the data is actually negative. And so these big files that we’re giving to people, it’s mostly negative, but what they really care about is the positive data. And we’ll be doing a better job of integrating that positive data across the different service offerings because sometimes people will combine services for certain projects. So we’ll just be doing a better job of distilling down the positive data that provides the most insight and separating out, making it available to them, the data that can potentially lead to rabbit holes, but making it harder for, or less easy for people to accidentally start going down rabbit holes, doing their best job to understand complex data.
So you are doing this research, you’re providing data and other companies, they, I guess, they use this data to create medical solutions or drugs. What do you see is the future? How is AI going to change this whole process and how is it going to make it more efficient?
Yeah, yeah, so there’s an enormous potential for integrating this kind of data with other types of these high throughput technologies. They’re often referred to as omics technologies. Most people are familiar with genomics, sort of DNA sequencing of genomes and looking for associations between the inherited genes and a disease risk or something like that. And so there’s genomics, but there’s also proteomics, metabolomics, there’s the microbiome, and more and more large studies are involving these types of omics data and integrating across them to extract the insight, the mechanistic insight.
That's a huge opportunity, for AI to assist the statisticians and the biologists that are currently doing that research.
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A lot of that research is being done in academia. A lot of that research is being done at pharmaceutical companies. And this is how the next generation of drugs, I think, are going to be discovered and tested in populations where these measurements are made. So, different archetypes of responders and non-responders will be better understood. I think that’s certainly going to be true about the immune system. We already know many drugs can stimulate an autoimmune response. Many drugs rely on stimulating an immune response to a cancer in order for them to work. And so really getting a better understanding of the immune system in conjunction with all these other omics is really going to be transformative for biomedical research and incorporating AI to integrate those analysis with the scientific literature, I think is going to be a critical element of that going forward.
Yeah, it’s really fascinating how the immune system can be stimulated to overcome certain illnesses. Because when I was a child, and even maybe up until recently, I thought that the drugs were actually overcoming the disease, but more and more what I understand is that the drugs are not overcoming anything. The drugs are just helping the immune system overcome the disease. So it’s a fascinating subject. Now, talk about different omics, and your area, you mentioned is the antibody reactomics. So is this the science of how the immune system reacts to certain inputs? What is it about?
Exactly, yeah. So, we have these very complex repertoires, molecular portfolios of antibodies that we all carry around with us. And the antibody reactomics is really an attempt to extract as much of that information as we can. It’s using the record player to read out the targets of those antibodies. So it’s referred to as an antibody reactivity. When an antibody binds to something, it’s a true target. And so, the reactome is the set of all those potential reactivities that we carry in our blood. And so, we’re trying to capture that information as comprehensively and as accurately as we can.
So, how does DNA sequencing come into the picture. And you mentioned in our earlier conversation that it’s a new gold for healthcare technologies. So why is DNA sequencing so important and how does it help?
There has been so much incentive to advance the ability to read DNA for a number of fields, that the technology, it’s mostly been led by Illumina technologies that people are now trying to convert, as we are, different types of questions into a DNA sequencing readout to leverage the advance in DNA sequencing. And so, there’s just so many different technologies now. Many of them have, there’s sort of a hyphen and then SEQ (S-E-Q). There’s RNA S-E-Q, DNA S-E-Q, and there’s single-cell RNA S-E-Q, and all these different S-E-Q’s out there now that are just giving an incredible wealth of information to researchers. And it sort of is all riding on the back of this wave of DNA sequencing technologies.
What is your exact approach to leveraging these technologies? What is unique about Infinity Bio that you do that helps other companies?
Yeah, so the uniqueness at Infinity Bio is basically the way that we create this reagent, this collection of proteins and DNA barcodes. We use a technology called MIPSA for molecular indexing of proteins by self-assembly. It’s the self-assembly part that makes it super efficient. As an example, I mentioned the viral service that we do, 285,000 peptides. To make each of those individually DNA barcoded would be not feasible, or at least not economically feasible.
So what we do is use self-assembly in a single reaction. We do a process that allows these protein fragments to barcode themselves. And so everything is just happening in one tube, and then we can use that reagent to test individual samples.
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So it’s the efficiency with which we make that library, that collection of proteins that allows us to do it in a high throughput testing format. And to be able to do it at a cost that actually enables researchers to test a lot of samples. Because one of the key things about human immune systems is that they’re so different. Even identical twins have very different immune response profiles. And so to get at a true disease association, you need to test large numbers of individuals. And so the efficiency with which we can make this material and use it for testing is actually the core special sauce at Infinity Bio.
Wow. So how did you guys come up with this idea? It sounds so esoteric for a layperson. What is the process of stumbling upon this idea or developing this approach, this concept?
It’s been a natural evolution attempts to read the antibody repertoire using different approaches. And the approach before this I worked on as a graduate student and that interestingly uses, they’re called bacterial phage. They’re basically viruses that infect bacteria to connect to the DNA. So it’s again, using DNA barcoding, DNA attaching to proteins, but we were using this virus system to attach the DNA to the protein fragment. And that had some great advances over all the previous technologies, but had some important limitations. And so, MIPSA was the next step to overcome those limitations and really bring to market for the first time a really reliable solution that could be affordable for running large numbers of samples and provide proteins in a way that antibodies naturally recognize them in solution. So there’s several sort of step function advances that allowed us to bring this to market.
Okay, so we are getting close to the end and I’d like to ask you the question that what is the most important question that the biotech entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
Hmm. That’s a tough one. I guess I mean,
telling the story is so important and building the team around that story is so important.
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So I think the entrepreneur really needs to ask themselves, are they ready to tell the story? And you can never be too ready, I guess. So talking to people who have different perspectives is so important in telling your story and refining your story and then asking yourself, are you ready to take the leap? Because it is not for the faint of heart to do a startup company. Once you are ready, do you have the right team with you? Are you able to rally a team around you that is going to be as passionate as you are, as resilient to the setbacks that you’re definitely going to experience? But I do think it is the most rewarding thing that you can do is to start a business or make a discovery that advances human health.
Yeah, I agree. What is the challenge in telling that story? You explained this with some hesitation that you said that you have to be ready, you’re never quite ready. So is this about having to show conviction for something that is uncertain? Or what is it that makes it difficult to tell that story?
So, every story will have its own unique challenges. For us, there has not been as much advance in this area. And so, in telling our story, we have to do a lot of education as well to convince the audience that this is a worthwhile pursuit. When you drink your own Kool-Aid, you can oftentimes take that for granted. Of course, we have this beautiful solution for reading antibodies, but if the audience is not already convinced that you need to read antibodies, then you’re not going to win over that audience.
You really need to understand your audience and how to tell your story to be heard.
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I totally relate to this, because just this past year, I started going to trade shows and exhibiting my company with a booth. And I thought that the biggest benefit was going to be the number of clients I find in this trade show. But actually, it was different. It was being able to refine the story, being able to articulate it, because I had so many interactions with people, so many times I explained in a simple way what it is I do, that I managed to refine the message and it actually became a lot more attractive. So I really resonate with this thought. And, luckily, my business is a lot less complex than yours. It’s easier to get to the story, but still it was a struggle. So thank you for coming to the show. So Ben Larman, the scientific founder and CSO, what’s CSO stands for?
Chief Scientific Officer.
Chief Scientific Officer, of course, of Infinity Bio, a technology company that measures individual immune responses against all known human viruses, autoimmune diseases, and allergies. So thanks for doing what you do. Thanks for coming on the show. If people would like to learn more, where should they go and how can they find you?
You can always go to infinitybio.com or send me an email through the website or my Johns Hopkins email, hlarman1@jhmi.edu
Okay, super easy. We’ll put it in the show notes so people can pick it up. Thanks for coming and thank you for listening.
Important Links:* Ben’s LinkedIn * Infinity Bio
https://youtu.be/IyjtkLD79tcKevin Torf, Managing Partner of T2 Tech Group, is driven by a passion for getting the job done, transforming IT liabilities into valuable assets, and delivering success through innovative project management.
We learn about Kevin’s journey from founding T2 Tech Group to becoming a leader in technology consulting, particularly in the healthcare sector. He explains the PROJECTS Framework—Planning, Reflection, Organization, Juggling, Empowerment, Communication, Transparency, and Standards—a comprehensive methodology designed to manage large-scale projects effectively. Kevin also shares insights on balancing traditional project management with Agile principles, empowering teams to succeed, and the importance of market research and iterative development in entrepreneurial ventures.
—Get the Job Done with Kevin TorfGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast and my guest today is Kevin Torf, the Managing Partner of T2 Tech Group, a technology consulting firm in Southern California, transforming IT liabilities into valuable assets for clients in a range of industries, primarily healthcare. Kevin is also the author of Getting the Job Done. Kevin, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me, Steve. I’m excited to be part of your podcast and looking forward to having some dialogue and learning from each other.
Yeah, well, me too. I’m also looking forward. So let’s start with my favorite question. What is your personal “Why,” Kevin, and what are you doing in your business to manifest?
I’d say to start with, I got to use the book as my statement, it’s getting the job done. The question is why, what’s so important about getting the job done? Well, I enjoy it. I take a lot of pride in what I do. I enjoy the success that comes with it. I’d say many athletes run because of the adrenaline or what gets them motivated and winning and the things that an athlete does on a daily basis when they compete. I try to practice that in business. And in most cases, you’ve got to get the job done first, meaning you’ve got to achieve something that you set your mind out to. In my case, it’s mostly a lot of big large-scale projects. And then the success that comes with it, the feeling of doing something maybe other people haven’t done or couldn’t do or you were able to bring value that some other people might not have, it’s great. That makes me feel good. It makes the business today what it is, and I enjoy it.
Sounds like you’re a competitive person who likes to show things that other people couldn’t achieve.
I am competitive. I’m not going to shy away from that statement. I don’t use that to judge myself. I think I’m my biggest competitor myself.
When I set out to do something, I make a commitment to myself first and foremost. And it's being able to execute on that.
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When I have the opportunity of working with other people, I like a lot of competitive fun. You got to be careful how you manifest competition. You don’t want it to get in the way of your success and the success of others. You want to bring the best out of everybody. And I do like that. It’s a lot of fun.Okay. Well, you’re certainly very methodical about how you do that. In your book you talk about the framework that you call PROJECTS, which is an acronym of how you actually get the job done. So can you tell a little bit to our listeners about the project framework and what it does and how it does it?
Yes. T2, the group, the company, for many, many years has been working on projects and those projects range mostly technology, but they range in relocating a corporation’s data center or transforming their technology or helping them install new applications to enable them to do other things that they might not have been doing. And those projects require a lot of coordination and a lot of planning, a lot of resource management. And as we’ve evolved over the years, we’ve played with different methodologies in how to get that done and how to execute and complete this.
There's no shortage of methodologies. Probably the most formalized methodology today is from the PMI institution, which has a very well-structured, very formal process.
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Other methodologies have evolved through a lot of the software development and technology industries, which are referred to as Agile. And what happened was, unknowingly, we started practicing little pieces of each methodology and kept adding to them ourselves. And when it came down to it, we were building out how we go about doing things and it was just convenient that the word PROJECTS came about and we said, well, let’s see if we can build this into our pillars of what we do today. And it worked out really well because it really is encompassing when you look at each letter you assign it to what we were trying to message and communicate, P for planning, R for reflection. And we’ll go more into each one of those. But that’s what drove the wording and the acronym. And I think today, when you look back at it with hindsight, wow, it was quite smart that we did it. We didn’t think that way initially. It was more by accident.
Sounds like you’re drinking your own Kool-Aid because before we started the recording, you mentioned that you’re just about to do a strategic planning session with your leadership team and you talked about planning and reflecting on the year and seeing what the organization can achieve. So it sounds like it’s following the sequence of your PROJECTS acronym as well. So let’s dive more into it. So you said planning, reflection? What are the other items?
Yeah, so organization for O, juggling for J, empowerment for how to work together with teams, communications, transparency in how we work day to day, and then standards, which make up the word PROJECTS.
Awesome. So tell me a little bit about organization and juggling. So what do you mean by organization and how is it different, how you organize things? And what is this juggling? Juggling sounds like the opposite, like you’re not organized enough and you have to juggle things.
Organization is structure. You got to have some structure. There's an argument to being overstructured or creating too many processes. So it's finding that balance, but you do need to be organized.
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Probably there’s many elements to it, but the one that comes to mind is just time management. A lot of people don’t know, and myself included, how to limit the time you spend on things to be purposeful and to be meaningful to what you’re doing. Many times we get into conversations and we go other places that maybe we never intended and that sometimes will take longer than what we had anticipated. So it’s reminding ourself of the purpose of why we’re doing something and allocating the right amount of time needed and being responsible to keep within that framework. Juggling is actually an interesting one. We’re all very proud of the fact that we can do a hundred things at once, but after doing a hundred things at once, you learn very quickly, you’ll do none of them really well. And to really focus on the items that need attention and try to keep it limited to only one if you possibly can.
If you can do one thing, you more likely do it much better. You can do it very well.
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Luck doesn’t allow us always to do things like that. Things come about where we got to deal with other factors and we’ll end up juggling because it’s a matter of trading because you can only do one thing at a time. So if you’ve got four things to do, the other three are going to wait while you’re doing the one. Even if you have a team, it becomes a lot harder to organize and structure. But the goal is try to keep it simple if you possibly can and do one thing and do it well.
So juggling is an intentional part of this sequence or it’s just an accidental thing that we cannot avoid?
We cannot avoid it. So we need to plan for it and we need to organize around it because it’s going to happen. And in the types of work that we do with big, large-scale projects, it’s very often you’ll get distracted by other projects or business changes or other priorities that take place that now people want, that you need to rally around. And instead of adjusting, you sometimes juggle more than what you should. And usually it has an impact. It usually impacts productivity mostly.
Okay, so we talked about planning, reflection, organization, juggling, and then empowerment. So how do you see empowerment? How do you create empowerment? How does that help people be successful in managing projects?
So, empowerment is probably the biggest lesson I’ve personally had to learn over my life. When I started managing projects, I always felt that the goal of a manager was to tell everybody what to do and make sure they did it. And when they weren’t doing it, follow up and put pressure on them to do it. And when they all weren’t getting it done in time, telling them that they needed to find a way to do it faster and that there was a deadline. And over the years, I learned that’s not the best way to be the most effective.
Empowering people and empowering the team to do what you're looking to accomplish can be much more effective.
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So a good example, instead of setting a deadline for a person and saying to the team, I want this finished by next week, ask the team, when do you think you can finish it by. That subtle difference of, there’s a saying in the book, we call it pushing and pulling. Instead of pushing onto them a date that they might not even believe in, but rather pulling from them what they are committing to. You can achieve multiple things. One is now they’ve made a commitment to you. You didn’t force a commitment onto them. For them to now feel that they were empowered in making that decision, they become a little bit more responsible in fulfilling that responsibility as well. So there’s lots of examples about how to empower, but I think that’s one of the ones that I know definitely I’ve changed over the years as I’ve matured and I try and be more effective and what I do and that’s to allow people to make their own mistakes and allow them to decide how to tell you what they’re capable of doing and what their capacity is.
That really helps. I mean I recall in my business which was about 15 years ago and the way we managed projects every Monday morning we would sit down with the team and ask okay what do you want to get done and how much can you get done? And people would volunteer to get certain things done and we put it on the calendar and we asked them, how long is it going to take you? And they estimated that and that was their commitment. So if they couldn’t get that work done in that time, it was up on them to stay later and to finish it or work even in evenings or the weekend. And it worked pretty well actually. They would want to commit to something that is meaningful.
Steve, it’s very empowering with the book and when you look at some of the items and topics, it’s finding that right balance because business unfortunately doesn’t allow for some of these methods and approaches to how to do things. As an example, when we get a big project, someone decided that they needed to do something strategically for the organization. Someone costed out that project sometimes even before the project team gets engaged, which means they had to come up with a budget. That budget was not based on maybe what it’s going to cost, but what they can afford. They looked at strategically when they needed to get this done by that day. There might have been no rational reason to it other than everything else going on in the business at that time. So outside of what the team was doing, someone else decided on the budget and someone else decided on the timeline. So that’s the answer to what we believe where we’re now going to empower people and ask them how long it takes them. And then obviously how long it takes them would determine what the budget needs to be because time and money work together. So how do you do it? How do you balance that? And it’s finding that you’ve got to factor in the formal side of project planning, management budgets, but you want to empower the team to be able to use it in the most effective way.
Yeah. Okay. So empowering the team is important so that they weigh in, then they buy it and it becomes their commitment rather than you forcing them to do it. That’s great. So the remaining letters in the PROJECTS acronym are communication, transparency and standards. So tell me about these. Tell me about, what is it about communication that you need to see in order to get the job done? What kind of communication are you thinking about?
The type of projects we work on, there’s multiple people usually involved. They could even be multiple teams. There’s a lot of subject matter experts that might have to be engaged. And keeping everybody on message and making sure everybody understands what everyone else’s responsibilities are and communicating in a very clear way. Many times we fail just because we didn’t clearly articulate what our needs are or what a person was required to what their objectives were and then many times they’ll fail because of it unfortunately. So really being very clear in how you communicate. And today it’s hard with all the different forms of communication. Many years ago, we got in a room and we spoke about things and we all agreed. Today, we barely are in rooms anymore. We work remotely, we use these tools that we’re using today for video conferencing and with this email. And a lot gets lost in all those different forms. And there’s an expectation that the person you are communicating with understands you. And sometimes that’s wrong unless you really take that extra effort to make sure that message is well defined and done in the correct manner. And most important, the recipient of the message acknowledges what the expectations are, because there’s no better way of verifying what your expectations are if you ask the person to communicate back to you what they believe their responsibility is.
So communication is very important. Transparent, people need to know what everybody else is doing.
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I think when we try to keep the information siloed or try and decide who should know what and when they should know it, we ultimately lose a lot of everybody’s ability to really align with each other very well. And being able to just be open about how we do things, it’s just something we practice in the company, is if you want, if there’s a team and you’re always emailing everybody on that team and everybody’s on that distribution list, people think, ah, that’s too much information. Well, then the recipients will tell you if it’s too much, but include them when you’re not sure or when you feel that you can. And then, everything’s always open for everybody to see. The challenge comes if you don’t do that. And then all of a sudden, you send someone a message with now everybody copied on it. The first thing getting the message might now be offended. Well, why did you copy everybody on it?
Now, you did something that you don’t normally do. Was that intentional? Did you try and send a message? We just let everybody know everything all the time to begin with and you’ll make it a lot simpler in life on how you do things and how you go about doing things. And then standards, a little bit like organization, but it’s trying to find things that are more repetitive that you can have quality control measures around that will allow you to be successful. So with especially large scale projects, there’s a lot of checks and balances that you need in order to validate what you do and is done correctly. It’s like a pilot. Every time they go fly a plane, they’ll go through the checklist, even if they’ve done it a hundred times, 200 times. It’s not relevant. Having the same structure and organization, but defined down into that standard form, which is repetitive and you can look at it and utilize it to validate what you’re doing, will help you bring a level of quality to your work that will allow you to be number one productive and to achieve your objective.
Got it. Okay. So it’s very elaborate framework, projects, planning, reflection, organization, juggling, empowerment, communication, teamwork, and standards or transparency and standards. So let’s switch gears here. You mentioned that some of what you do is based on Agile, especially the software development part. So can you share with the audience very briefly, what is Agile and what do you like about Agile? How does Agile help your company, T2, to develop software?
Yes, so we use Agile in a very different way than typically Agile was introduced to developers, software developers. So you got to go back some 20 years ago where software developers, where the code they were writing was buggy, you would have problems with it when you utilized it. It wasn’t meeting the business needs. And it was determined earlier on by the big tech conglomerates that the methodologies they were utilizing wasn’t adapting and evolving to the business needs. Some of them got together and built an Agile framework and they wrote a manifesto around this which sets out some guidelines for how to adapt and how to be able to pivot and change when business needs change. So a lot of the book even about reflection and things of this nature are tenets of Agile. We’re not a software development company, but we like the Agile framework that we took elements of it. But again, not all of it is ideal when we’re dealing with big organizations that need maintain budgets, have boards that you need to report to, have governance committees that need to know what projects are being executed on and how they’re being done. And a lot of those communications are very anti-agile in many ways.
So it's finding the balance of where the two can be used together, but where agile has been very, very successful for us is in the camaraderie of how to build those teams, especially the empowerment we spoke of.
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A team together can be far more successful than any one individual. And it’s exponential, it grows. And finding out how to maximize that level of productivity from a team can be very effective if done in the right way. And Agile and some of the Agile framework allows for that in a way that many other frameworks don’t.
Yeah. So it allows people to share their priorities and align around them and get the job done, basically what your mission is. Okay. So the last question I want to ask you is, you being a managing director, managing partner of the T2 Tech group, you’re an entrepreneur, really. So what do you see from your perspective, what is the most important question that any entrepreneur should ask themselves?
It’s an interesting question. I’ve been fortunate to start several companies and a lot of the companies I’ve started were based on needs I believe other people had. And I got excited about that prospect and I went out and built those products or brought together what I thought was going to be a winner and hit a home run. And what I learned very quickly was, you need to do a lot more market research and you need to really understand what people need and learn a little bit more before just embarking on some of these initiatives because you think they were really a great idea. I’m not saying some of them aren’t successful and there’s many people that have probably had a great idea and have been extremely successful from it. I’ve had a few successes but I’ve also had a lot of failures. So what I’ve done today is just don’t forget the idea, bring the idea, but go learn a little bit more about what people want and what their thoughts might be and how that idea might evolve before making that huge big investment in it. That doesn’t necessarily mean money. It could just be time. Do it in a very iterative way, very much like Agile.
Just do something small and go test it and then reflect on it and allow it to build.
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And the idea will probably change as well as you learn and you’ll be a lot more successful. At least it’s worked for me. It’s allowed me to deliver a lot more on some of the ideas that I’ve had.
Yeah. I mean, they say that fall in love with your customer, not your product. What is the customer’s problem and fall in love with that and focus on that. And it’s very easy to get attached to our own product and be proud of it and think that it’s going to be better than other products. But if it doesn’t do the job, then it’s not the right one. So I love that. The other thing I would say is I’m just reading a book about this idea of logical things and psychological things. So not everything is logic that is a good idea. And you don’t know the illogical things only if you experiment with them. And that’s why the testing is so important. All right, so Kevin, thank you for coming on the show and sharing your framework, which is the acronym PROJECTS. So planning, reflection, organization, juggling, empowerment, communication, transparency and standards. So it’s a good way to run projects following this framework. So if people would like to learn more about your book, getting the job done and they want to connect with you, where should they go?
They can come directly to our website. It’s t2group.com and there’s a place for them on the website where they can actually download a copy of the book. They can go to the Amazon store and get one as well. If they want to message me, they’re welcome to do that as well through the website. They can put their contact information in details. My email address is kevin.torf@t2group.com. They’re welcome to email me. I love to share what we’ve done and I believe it makes us better when I hear other people’s opinion and again, that’s part of reflection.
Yeah. Well, Kevin, thank you for coming. So do check Kevin Torf, managing partner of T2 Tech Group out and download his book. I browsed it already and it’s a good one. Get the job done. You’ll get more information about the acronym and how to manage your projects well. So, Kevin, thanks for coming and thank you for listening.
No, Steve, thanks for inviting me and I’ve enjoyed your book as well and I look forward to reading all of them actually, but I appreciate the conversation and thanks for taking the time.
Important Links:* Kevin’s LinkedIn * T2 Tech Group
https://youtu.be/fa1f_rVBqbIWalt Alfred, Founder and President of Ally Power, is driven by a mission to innovate in energy production, reducing carbon emissions and creating sustainable solutions for a greener future.
We learn about Walt’s journey from a career in law to founding Ally Power, a hydrogen and electric refueling station company that has rapidly grown since its inception in 2019. He explains the ALLY Framework—Authentic, Leadership, Last, Yearly—a leadership philosophy that emphasizes transparency, team collaboration, and sustainable impact. Walt highlights how Ally Power’s innovative technology generates hydrogen, electricity, potable water, and sodium luminate while delivering cost savings and zero emissions. He also shares the company’s exciting future plans to decarbonize ports and airports, scaling projects from millions to billions in impact.
—Innovate in Energy with Walt AlfredWelcome, Walt Alfred, the Founder and President of Ally Power, revolutionizing energy production and reducing carbon emissions one station at a time. Walt, thank you so much for making time for us today.
Thank you very much, Krista, for having me.
We’re going to dig in first, and for you to describe what Ally Power is. And then we’re going to dig in a little more personally about you. So, in layman’s terms, tell us about Ally Power.
Ally Power is a hydrogen and electric refueling station company. We started in November of 2019, and now we have projects that are looking to be deployed all over the world. We have a team of around 15 committed people that are in business development, as well as engineering, risk, and in, obviously, operations and executives of the team and management of the company. The purpose of the company is to produce four different revenue sources from two feedstock sources. The four revenue sources are hydrogen, electricity, sodium luminate, and potable water. And we do this through the two chemical reactions. First reaction with aluminum and sodium hydroxide, and the second reaction with hydrogen and oxygen to make the potable water. The reason why we want to do it this way is that, one, it’s zero emission. Two, it’s a very small footprint compared to other ways to generate electricity. Three, there’s some serious cost savings for the customer. And four, we have found a lot of customer interest all over the world for our product. So that in a nutshell is Ally Power. And we are welcoming in new team members and new opportunities every single day.
So let me get this right. You started in 2019.
That’s correct.
And you’ve already grown a team of 15 with places all over the world. And you did this during a time with COVID in the middle of it. Tell me how you did that. It’s very exciting.
So a lot of the meetings that we have are virtual because it was especially within COVID, there was a reticence to actually meet in person. But after COVID had subsided, we did actually get to do some in-person business development, which was very exciting for me to go to all these different places to see what was going to be the customer dynamic when approached with this particular solution. There are already going to be solutions in the market that are very well-developed and have existing customer relationships and how does Ally Power unique offering interact with the existing dynamics within the market. That has always been very exciting to me to see how a customer would react when approached with this particular opportunity. So we have found overwhelming customer support in a number of different areas and that’s something that even within the COVID area, we have been able to move the process forward to where we are today. So very exciting about things to come and look forward to being able to present that.
You use the word exciting or excitement quite a bit and it shows on your face when you talk about your company and your product. That’s one of the things that I see consistently across when I talk with founders. There’s that ownership and there’s that joy. So let’s dig in a little more about you. What’s your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it?
So I’m actually a second generation inventor. My dad was an inventor in the telecom space, and he has continued to do patents even after he left corporate America, and now he has his own company. and I’m second generation and my particular area is in energy. As I see that energy is going to play a crucial role in a number of different industries from transportation to agriculture to utilities to water. It’s going to touch on a number of different areas in which we really need to focus on when we’re talking about generating the next era of power, because we would all like to have continued the human civilization at the level that we have, but we also have to be cognizant of the fact that we have been putting in a lot of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere for a very long time. So how do we maintain this level of human civilization while also reducing those greenhouse gases.
That's really the formation for why I went about going to patent this as an idea, and then also to not just go the patenting only route, but also implementing the idea in real world scenarios so that I can bring this product to actual customers…
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So think back to your 13, 14, 15 year old self. Did you think you would be doing this at this stage in your life?
No. If I could ask my 13, 14, 15 year old self, I would have a patent and my own company and I’d be running it. This was not something that I thought at that point in time. I actually diverted my career from the law to starting this company because during law school a number of different factors led me to believe that energy was going to be a really big important part of the next generation of how we’re going to live and work in the world. And if I could be on the cusp of innovating in that respect, then that’s what I should be focusing a lot of my time and attention towards. So the reason why I diverted my career path is because I wanted to focus on this particular venture and see it through to the best of my ability.
I love that. So if you had a chance to speak to some other younger entrepreneurs, you’ve learned a lot since 2019, what advice would you offer them if they have an idea that they want to spark and bring to fruition?
So networking is really key. And what I would say is even before you get that really great big idea, you should already be having the network that you have, but also trying to expand it every single day, every single month, every single year. Because that network, even before you get the idea, is going to be so crucial for you for when you want to execute that idea afterwards. So having that network that allows you to implement it as fast as possible is really, really key. So that’s what I would say to would-be entrepreneurs is to continue to network with like-minded individuals. Find out who is in the room when you go to certain events, go outside your comfort zone, go to events you might not ordinarily go to, but you find an interest in that particular sector and find out who’s there, find out, go through the list of the people who are going to be attending and have a breakdown of who you want to meet and have a steady conversation in your mind prior to that meeting, so that you’re prepared for when that meeting occurs.
That is excellent advice. And networking continues throughout your career, on through retirement, because we all need resources once we’ve grown our businesses and moved on. Each company has a different way that they operate, and every company has a culture. They have processes. One of the things that we like to look at in Management Blueprint is a process that you might use. And one thing you and I had a pre-conversation and you brought up a process that uses the acronym ALLY. Will you describe ALLY for us?
Yes. So the ALLY stands for Authentic, Leadership, Last, Yearly. So it starts with Authentic. When you start any business, you want to come across as being trustworthy, as being honest, being honest with yourself, being honest with customers, being honest with investors.
That's incredibly important to be as transparent as possible when you can. So there may be things that change over time and you have to be transparent when they do, but it's important for you to be authentic in what you're going to be able to…
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I also think that this is really important for Ally in particular because of the proprietary and original idea upon which Ally Power is founded. So we have more than one patent in the works, one issued and several that I just have in my head and haven’t gone through the process yet. That’s a big key factor for us is that we wanted to come to the market with something original to solve a very big problem in the world. The second point is that Leadership. Leadership comes from not just the top, but it also can come from the bottom. So as a leader, it’s important to be able to listen to your team members and see what is working and what isn’t working. What team members aren’t working well together? It’s not going to be a process that is smooth sailing throughout. To create an organization that is going to create change means that you are going to have personalities within the corporation that are going to have to work together. And you as the leader have to understand that where are the pieces going to fit and where are they not going to fit? So that’s a recognition of that internal dynamic that is going to lead to positive external consequences.
And you want your leadership to last. You want to have your voice, your vision be able to go throughout the world if that's going to be your market.
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So you want it to have an impression that could actually last and make that idea or concept or product be imprinted upon those people who have access to it and are exposed to that particular product or idea. So that’s a really big component piece. You want your ideas to last. And Yearly, this last component, some might say you only want your authentic leadership to last only a year. So that’s not really what we think of it like that. What we think of by yearly is yearly is just a time measurement. So it’s a good thing to have in a beginning of the year and an end of year review. So for an employee, you have certain metrics that you want that employee to meet or exceed in that year. And if they are able to exceed that metric over that year period, great, excellent, on to the next year, on to the next challenge. But if they aren’t able to meet that metric, at least you have a blueprint for what they were, what the expectations were for that year.
And giving people a year to complete something is a good enough amount of time for you to actually see how that person works in the environment in which they're placed.
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So if I’m going to be able to give you the free rein in order for you to accomplish certain things over and above what you said that you were gonna accomplish, then great, I can continue to give you that free rein and that responsibility. If you need a little bit more coaching or help or perhaps maybe this isn’t particularly your subset within the corporation that you need to find a different role, then that’s something that we need to know and take care of at the end of the year review process. So that’s why I have these four different authentic leadership last yearly as our leadership model within Ally Power.
Well, you said some words that definitely called me. Leadership, coaching, that’s how we keep our team motivated. It’s how we grow our teams. If I were to speak to some of your team, how do you think they would describe your leadership/management style? How do you think your team would describe you?
So my team would say that I’m very focused on business development in terms of my management style. I do like to give free rein to my employees and my partners in order for them to see what types of opportunities that they can take and run with within the markets that they’re familiar with. In terms of the consequences of non-action, I would say, there are periods of time where I think that they would say that I was not giving them enough coaching, not enough direction, and they would like me to be more vocal in terms of that. But in a young organization, I wanted them to prove themselves in that respect, and I will step in and facilitate action if things aren’t being accomplished at the speed that they need to be accomplished. So that’s what I think that they would say.
What I would summarize there is you’re more hands-off than hands-on. You step in when you need to.
I do. That’s correct.
I think there are a lot of employees that would appreciate that type of management style. Let’s switch gears a little bit. As you can see, there are books in my bookcase behind me, and if you could see the other bookcases around, I love to read. I love to read paper books. I’m on the computer all the time, but I do e-read and do all of that. Do you have a business management science author, someone that when they publish an article or a book, you are always drawn to that? Is there someone that you follow in terms of thought leaders?
A lot of my scientific reading goes through Department of Energy technical reading. I also read a lot on current events, especially in the hydrogen industry with utility scale, generation of electricity, potable water. So these are the types of journals that I like to frequent when I’m talking about my technical side in terms of things that I like to read. When I get the time, and I like to look at other leadership style books. Now, one of my favorite books that I’ve ever read was from John Adams, which is what made into, I believe, an HBO series as well. That was just a fascinating look at a president that had such a really interesting life as a founding father to President of the United States to elder statesman. And you could see the interesting dynamics between being in Washington’s cabinet and how that grew into interpersonal relationships between the legendary figures that actually built our country. So, those are the types of stories and genres that I’m drawn to. I was also just watching the other day Hamilton online. That’s a really great look as well as there’s so much potential for Hamilton in his life and that was a really great way for us to absorb really what he was able to accomplish with his life and what could have accomplished it.
So you get your technical information, you go to the primary sources, as you said, and then in your reading, what I’m hearing you say is you’re looking for inspiration. You’re looking for how did these unique individuals do what they did and succeed under very difficult circumstances.
Yes.
DR. KRISTA CRAWFORD: All right. What did I not ask about Ally Power that you feel others should know? What do we need to fill in?
So when I talk about the yearly metrics, it’s not just on an individual level that I review what each person has done for the company. I also try to look at the whole company as a whole and what we’ve been able to accomplish on a year-by-year basis. So since 2019, we’ve been able to scale the company, not just in terms of geographic market size and those types of offerings. We’re also been able to have significant progress with our technology, significant progress with the ways to finance that technology. And there’s a lot of different ways that you can finance an infrastructure project.
You can have a joint venture, for example, with another company that wants to partner with your technology. You can finance it through an equity-backed security. You can just get customer-backed financing for the entire project. You might sell it to a customer and they love the idea and they want to go with it. They believe in the technology and they like all the four things that you’re selling and they need it and that’s what they want to do. We’ve also been able to reach out to government sources of funding and see that our technology, when paired alongside other technology, has significant benefits. So one of the technologies that is more well-established in the market, specifically in hydrogen, is called an electrolyzer-based system. So an electrolyzer takes electricity and it splits the hydrogen and oxygen from water into hydrogen and oxygen. And it takes a certain amount of electricity in order to do that.
So we came up with a way for us to partner with an electrolyzer-based company and utilize public funds to do that. So that’s one of the things that we were able to accomplish for this year, that we submitted a proposal to a very large government entity. And they liked it so much that they put it up as a proposal that the office is willing to champion this particular proposal going forward. Also, being able to work with nonprofits as well as for-profit companies is a really useful dynamic that we have to have in order for us to be able to access certain types of funding. And being able to have those partner relationships and realize how important those are to inculcate within an organization has been really telling this year as well. So looking at it from a five-year perspective, I think that we’ve been able to accomplish a lot over a relatively short period of time.
Yes, you have. I can attest to that. Curious, what are you working on right now that excites you? What’s something newer that’s in your horizon that you can share? I understand there are many things you can’t share, but what’s something that excites you right now?
So, in addition to transportation and utilities scale generation of electricity, there’s going to be a huge transformation within ports and airports and how that fuel is brought to bear within the ecosystem of the port itself. So that’s really the next iteration of where Ally Power wants to go. And in terms of scale, size of projects, it’s going to be going from maybe hundreds of millions of dollars to billions of dollars in terms of when you’re talking about retrofitting an existing airport or building an all-new airport, you’re definitely into the billion-dollar conversations already. And we are in conversations with partners that have access to those types of conversations. So that’s, I think, the most exciting thing that’s happening right now, is going to be ports and airports. We foresee that there’s going to be a decarbonization within that sector as well, and which fuel is eventually going to win out for how we ship things, for example, with ships or which fuels would be used for airplanes in the future. We want to be a part of that conversation and we think that we can with the technology that we bring to bear.
Well, as someone who lives on a harbor and I’m looking at ships right now, that’s exciting for me to hear about. And, obviously, it’s a related field, but you’re expanding your market. So that’s fantastic. It has been wonderful speaking with you and thank you so much for being so generous with your time. I hope we’ve inspired some young entrepreneurs. How can people find out more about Ally Power and or get in touch with you? What’s the best way?
Sure. So we have a website www.allypowerinc.com. And you can get in touch with me via my email, which is walt.alfred@allypowerinc.com.
Fantastic. Any final thoughts for our listeners?
I just really want to appreciate and thank you very much, Krista, for the opportunity. I know that there are a lot of entrepreneurs out there who are just on the cusp and they’re thinking about going through with it. They have an idea and they’re trying to decide whether or not to really take the plunge and go through with it. I would say go through with it.
You really do have a great life ahead of you if you do decide and choose the entrepreneurial path.
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The world does need more entrepreneurs. It does constantly need new ideas. And we want to welcome you at the table when we see your new idea. So thank you very much, Krista, again for the time.
Well, thank you for being the entrepreneurial cheerleader that you were today. And we appreciate you being on the Management Blueprint.
Important Links:* Walt’s LinkedIn * Ally Power * Krista Crawford’s LinkedIn
https://youtu.be/FBWm0877tRgPete Scahill, Senior Manager of the Run Efficient Consulting Agency, is driven by a passion for helping individuals, teams, and organizations transform weaknesses into strengths and achieve their full potential.
We discuss Pete’s Weaknesses to Strengths Framework, a framework designed to build trust, enhance self-confidence, and foster knowledge to unlock growth. He shares how this approach transforms challenges into opportunities, empowers teams to innovate, and drives sustainable success. He introduces the concept of “building boxes to think outside of,” a strategy that sparks creativity and scales organizational impact. He also highlights the importance of empathy, logic, and creativity in leadership, illustrating how these qualities help leaders inspire and guide their teams.
—Turn our Weaknesses Into Strengths with Pete ScahillGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast. And my guest today is Pete Scahill, Senior Manager of the Run Efficient Consulting Agency, which helps companies, non-profits and teams achieve peak performance. Pete, welcome to the show.
Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Great to be here. Appreciate it.
Good to have you here and good to learn about your experiences and “Why” and framework. So let’s start with the “Why.” What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest in your business?
So my personal “Why” is because I like to see achievement and my personal achievement is the success of others. So I look at a company, I look at a team, I look at an individual and what can they achieve and how do they do it and helping them get to that level in their professional life. So that is my “Why.” I just love seeing success.
Awesome. So what do you do in your business to manifest that? How do you do that?
Multiple ways. Sometimes it just seems to be happenstance. I’ll be working with a project or a company, and I will see an individual that has great potential, and I’ll bring them up to a leadership level through coaching, utilizing multiple tools. Or I’ll be brought in saying, I have a team that’s really just not performing, but I know they’ve got the skills. I have to give them the confidence and the tools and what the end goal is. The biggest and most expensive phrase that anybody has ever said to me is, we’ve always done it this way, why don’t we just continue this way?
That can be frustrating when people say that then there is resistance, but they don’t want to change their ways. So you mentioned tools, confidence, knowledge. So let’s discuss then your framework, which I think you call it the Weaknesses to Strengths Framework. So tell me what that is and how do you take companies or individuals from weaknesses to strengths and how to apply that framework.
We’ve always done it this way. That right there seems to be a weakness that I’ve come across quite a bit. Or on an individual level, I’ve always done it this way. With technology and the world changing as quickly as it does, this is a great opportunity to not skill up in technology, but skill up in your personal life and in your work life. So if I see a weakness or a manager has told an individual that this is their weakness, they really need to boat up on it. I say it’s not your weakness, it’s your opportunity. It’s your opportunity for your strength. And we work with them, I work with them, and say, okay, your manager said that your weakness is that you do not have good time management. Well, you have time management.
It's just how do you do time management that might be different than the way they do time management.
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So I work with them on how to be effective in time management, or I work with teams that are not delivering projects on time, whether it be Agile or Waterfall or anything like that, and I find out that individuals within the teams are resistant to change, so I work with them on change management. How are things going to change and how are they going to be better for the individuals, for the team, for the organization. And the biggest thing is what’s in it for them. That’s the biggest motivator. What’s in it for them. It’s not money. It’s not paid time off.
It's speaking for themselves, saying, I did a great job. I did this and be able to say that with confidence.
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That’s very interesting. Do you feel like the best way to move forward is to fix strengths or is it better to build on weaknesses? So there’s always this debate. What is your perspective?
My build, my perspective has been to enhance the strengths, but really build on the weaknesses to help enhance the strengths. And if you look at a typical SWOT analysis, big marketing terms or whatever you want to call it, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. You take each one of those.
A weakness builds the strength. An opportunity builds the weakness and the strength.
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So they all work in conjunction with each other. So I look at all parts of an individual, of a team, of an organization holistically so that I can help build all different angles and building that strength out of that weakness or that opportunity identified.
That’s interesting. So I have also found that sometimes when a company or an individual meets a huge weakness or obstacle and if they figure out a way, maybe they are forced to figure out a way because it’s a matter of life or death. If they figure out a way to overcome it, maybe by developing a coping mechanism, then it becomes into a great strength. So a weakness actually turns into a strength. And from then on, that’s a unique quality or ability that few others can replicate because they have not gone through those fires that forced to develop this kind of strength.
Absolutely.
I just want to mention one example, which is kind of quite interesting, is the founder of IKEA, Ingvar Kamprad. He was a teenager on a distant farm in the middle of Sweden and there were no shops and he was very entrepreneurial. He wanted to buy and sell stuff and he started sending sales letters and explaining or selling pens to a sales letter and he became so good at that eventually the sales letter morphed into the IKEA catalog, which became the most widely published document in the world. 40 million copies printed in a calendar quarter. So, yeah, so that can be very powerful.
Oh, absolutely. And that’s a phenomenal example of building something from an opportunity or weakness into the ultimate strength. And now we see where IKEA is today. It’s in every city, it’s in every suburban. It’s a phenomenal way of looking at things. You look also at Walmart. Started out with one store and just went out huge. They know their market. They knew what their weaknesses were when they first started, and they built those into strengths. They also knew what their opportunities were. They also knew their threats, and they built up to the Walmart brand. Some people may have a different view on it, but it is true.
So, Pete, you talk about three pillars to this framework, tools, self-confidence and knowledge. So tell me about each of these. So what kind of tools do you have in mind and how do you apply tools?
So the first tool that I use in any situation is called the Speed of Trust by Stephen Covey. It is a well-known book, well-known framework for many years. But the trust in yourself, in your organization, in your team, in others, your family is the key to achieving that success. So not only just read the book, but we also do all the exercises. Then we go beyond the book and we utilize tools. Let’s say we’re an engineer and we see how the trust within your team builds and then you deliver quicker because you’re not second guessing yourself constantly. But we use a lot of psychology, a lot of psychodynamics, but it’s all based on that pillar of trust within yourself, trust with others, and trust in your abilities. That’s really the biggest tool. Also utilizing various management platforms, such as a project manager platform called Trello, to keep people dedicated and on task. So it’s a Kanban board. If that doesn’t work for you, we find different ways. We tailor it to the individual, to the organization, of what they need done and how to build that strength and get them back on track.
Okay, so you use certain tools and then you talk about self-confidence. You mentioned trust in others, trust in self. Isn’t self-confidence just trust in self?
Not really. The self-confidence is brought on by other people talking to you. So if you have a boss or a wife or a husband or a partner that says, oh, you’re horrible at cleaning the dishes. You have trust that you’re cleaning the dishes correctly, but that partner, that person is telling you you can’t clean a dish to save your life. Now you have no self-confidence in that cleaning a dish. So what we can do is we build out, this is how I clean dishes, use that communication with the partner, and I can clean a dish. Now take this to an organizational level. I’m self-confident that I can write code. I can write code in C-sharp that will create a phenomenal front-end to back-end middleware. My chief engineer says, it’s not working. You’re not doing it the way I’m doing it. Well, you create that communication with your manager or with your counterparts.
I say, well, this is one way we could do it. It actually saves time. It saves effort.
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And I’m building in tests into my code. You could take this across every industry. I just finished a project with a health care organization and one of their biggest strengths was they were phenomenal therapists. One of their biggest weaknesses they had no idea how to manage. So I built that self-confidence. They had self-confidence. They could treat the worst mental conditions out there but they couldn’t run a business. So they were confident but I helped him regain that confidence and ultimately build that trust.
That’s interesting. So really self-confidence in your framework depends on how do you get other people reinforce what you’re doing or give you the support that you need to be really effective.
Yeah, everybody, their self-confidence is within, but also take external factors and bring some in that can bring it down, bring it up, or stabilize it. And we need to figure out ways for that individual, that team, whatever, to stabilize their self-confidence and believe in themselves, and then trust themselves.
Yeah, okay, that’s interesting. So the third leg of the stool is knowledge. So what do you mean by knowledge? I mean, obviously we all need knowledge, but how does knowledge interplay with the tools and the self-confidence?
So having a holistic view, let’s say I go into work, I’m a project manager, I go into work and it’s a project that I’ve done 1500 times, but it’s a new organization. So I build this project, but it doesn’t meet what the organization really needs. They need a project, but having this holistic point of view, not inherent, like not understanding the accounting software, that account, understanding the marketing software, but understanding how this pillar of the project will affect the whole organization or in your personal life, how this way of communicating will affect your whole organization with your family, with their partners, however, but it always comes up into your holistic being. So having that knowledge, not expert knowledge, your expert knowledge sits here, but having that knowledge out here so you can think outside of that box that they put you in.
So is this maybe another way to say it is the awareness of the context or your environment, situational awareness?
Yeah. Situational knowledge, situational awareness, and situational communication.
Now you mentioned something that I’m curious about. You said that creating a box that other people can think outside of. What do you mean by this exactly?
This is something that I coined a while back. And when I was a full-time employee at an organization and I was pigeonholed into a small box and I was told this is what you do, this is how you do it, and this is why you do it. Well, that’s not how I really thought about it. I thought about this opportunity as greater than that. So I actually worked with the executives of this organization to think outside of that box. We all hear and think outside that box. Okay, great. With Google and other organizations giving 20% of work time to innovation. Well, I thought, why don’t we use that 20% to build a box others can think outside of. You may not be a manager, but you may come up with a process or a way of doing something that will affect, let’s say 20 people. And so you built this box that others can now innovate out of. Instead of continuing in this box and innovate a little bit, you innovate, you build this box, now you innovate more, build another box, innovate more, and it’s across your whole existence.
So is it something to do with the idea of constraints stimulating progress or this is a different idea?
It is partly constraints hindering innovation. What this is not breaking out of those constraints because you do have to do your job, you have to do your life the way it is, but having the confidence as we had talked about and the trust in yourself to think outside of that box, build a box that others will see into and then build outside of that box and think outside of that box and hopefully build their own.
It's great innovation and it actually stimulates organizations, teams, families, whatever, to move forward and constantly think outside of that box, build their new boxes, work in that box, keep going.
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So Pete, give me an example of how that works. Give me an example of a box that was created and then people thought outside of it and created another box adjacent to the first box.
Absolutely. I worked with an organization back in 2020 and they were a on-site thing. Everybody had to be on site. It had been working this way for 30 years. And it was a payroll company, fantastic payroll company. Then COVID hit and they didn’t know what they were going to do. The CEO actually thought he’d have to close down because nobody was on site because you couldn’t have things going under the wires, which is fine. When he hired me to come in, I helped him think outside of that box. This was prior to everybody working from home. I set up the infrastructure with him and a couple other individuals to build this extensive network of people working from home like we all had to. But then he had 60,000 square feet of space of people not being in. He had conference rooms, he had desks, he had cubicles. Everybody’s working from home. And so we reinvented his physical space to rental space. And we took that rental space, kept 10,000 square feet of our space for him, for conference rooms and desks, we rented out the rest of the space to data center, to other organizations that were downsizing. So he had a doubt another revenue stream. But because we thought outside the box, we’d built this revenue stream box, which was renting out the space. He had expanded. He was able to expand his business during a contraction time. Not only that, once he was able to expand his business and think out of this new box, he built another box, which was expand his region. Now he was open to having sales and account management throughout the Northeast versus just Eastern Massachusetts, Southern New Hampshire, and Rhode Island. He has representatives and workers that go from New York City all the way to the Northern Vermont and parts of Maine, Massachusetts and Connecticut. So there’s two boxes that we built, we thought outside of, we built the box, expanded on it, built another box, expanded on that.
That’s fascinating. It’s an interesting concept, the boxes, and how do you think outside of, especially you isolate whatever you have now and you force the question, okay, what can we do, which is completely different from what you’re doing using the assets that you got? And then you basically lease the space and then you expand it into different spaces using your skills that you may have developed leasing that space. That’s fascinating.
Yeah. And it’s still working to, we’re four years outside of this and he’s actually expanded his whole footprint and still works out of the 10,000 square feet of space.
Yeah, he’s working inside the box but he’s thinking outside the box.
And he’s built his other boxes. That’s wonderful.
Okay, that’s cool. So there’s another topic that you mentioned in a pre-interview and you said that there are these three ideas, logic, creativity, and empathy. So why are these important to you and how do they inform what you need to do as a coach or as a business leader?
This is another thing that I came up with having worked in mental health for quite a few years, but also healthcare in general, and former EMT myself, is you look at things and everybody says, we have two sides of our brain, logic and creative. It’s not true We have multiple sides of our brain. We think all the time, but if you want to break it down there are two sides, logic is the how do I get this done? And what do I need to get done? How do I get it done? Creative is how can I get this done faster? The empathy which pushes you forward, think about it as the back of your head, back of your brain, pushes you forward is to understand the people that you need to work with and understand their situations that they happen to be in. Understanding that this individual, whoever that happens to be, may be going through a very hard time in their life, so the logic doesn’t work with them, but a little bit of empathy helps, and then they move forward. Or an individual, a team over here is having a real roadblock issue, understanding and having empathy for that team, then coming up with creative and logical ways of moving that team forward, coaching that team, pushes them forward, because you understand all aspects of it.
You understand their personality, what their thought process is, and how creative they are. It also unleashes people's creativity and abilities in that trust model.
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Yeah, I love it. It’s kind of the, you mentioned Stephen Covey. I think it’s the Stephen Covey Jr. who wrote the Speed of Trust book and then his father who wrote the original one, The Seven Habits. He talks about listen first to understand, I think is one of the seven habits. And what I’m hearing is that really empathy is, okay, put yourself into their shoes, understand where they’re coming from, and then lean on their creativity and logic. Maybe it’s systems thinking to improve the situation. Is it kind of empowering these people to come up with their own solutions, or is it just you being creative for them?
No, it’s all empowering them. They have their own tool set in their mind, in their possession and working with them, how to utilize those tools they have in front of them to move forward and giving them the competence and help them feel that confidence inside themselves that utilizing this tool in a way that is not constantly used that way will actually move them forward. I jokingly call it MacGyver, MacGyvering management or MacGyvering leadership. Using what you have in front of you.
Okay, I’m missing the reference, but it’s going to be..
An old TV show.
Okay, there you go. That’s fine. Okay, so before we wrap up, I’d like to ask you, so as a coach, what do you think is the most important question that a coach has to ask themselves?
Are they coaching for the money or are they coaching for the results? And I’ve come across multiple coaches who are coaching for a good paycheck or multiple volumes, volume of people coming through, executive coaches, team coaches, things like that. Or are they coaching because they love what they do and seeing the success. Also, besides the money is, what is your motivator for coaching? Is it your success or is the young person’s success or the other team or organization’s success?
So depending on what your focus is, if it’s an internal focus saying, we just want to make as much money as possible, would you then coach people differently?
Absolutely. I’ve seen it with other coaches where I worked with an executive coach for a couple of years and this individual was big into I’m gonna charge X amount of dollars to teach somebody from this organization and 500 from this organization because they can afford it. And this was something that this person had learned for many years. And for this individual, it was all about the volume of individuals they get through, or teams, and didn’t really like doing the work, just happened to fall into it.
Yeah, I think some coaching models also force coaches to follow this kind of behavior, because if the coaching model is not robust enough and it’s not going to give enough tools or techniques for the coach to be able to help an individual or an organization for a long time, then they will be forced churning clients, so they will have to invest much of the time into plowing the pavement for new clients, which deprives them of the energy to serve their own clients more deeply.
Exactly. And I look at each engagement as I’m going to work with this individual, this team, this organization until they could run on their own and they don’t need me. My goal is to get fired from an organization, to work myself out of a job. I love it.
Okay. Well, that’s good. A good way to end. So if somebody would like to learn more, maybe connect with you, have some questions or wants to check out your offerings, where should they go and where can they find you?
So the best way to reach out to me is on LinkedIn. Pete Scahill on LinkedIn. I have a Run Efficient page. My website is currently under construction, but it will be runefficient.net. And feel free to reach out to me at petescahill@runefficient.net if you want to reach out to me and learn more about what I have to offer.
Awesome. Well, so Pete Scahill from the Run Efficient Consulting Agency. Definitely check him out and reach out to him on LinkedIn. Learn what he’s doing. Pete, thanks for coming and sharing your ideas on the show and frameworks. You’ve got some original ones. And if you’re listening to this and you enjoy it, then don’t forget to give us a review on Apple Podcast or follow us on YouTube and stay tuned because every Monday and Friday we come out with a new show. So thanks for coming, Pete, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Pete’s LinkedIn * Run Efficient Consulting Agency
https://youtu.be/X-3kplDKxfwKendall Lott, CEO and President of M Powered Strategies, is driven by a mission to empower public service organizations to grow their GovCon in both directions, aligning client needs with skilled talent.
We discuss the Tie Fighter (Bowtie) Framework, a strategic model Kendall developed to enhance growth by connecting business development, capture, and proposals (right wing) with networking, recruiting, and hiring (left wing), all bridged by training and development at the center. Kendall explains how this framework helps service-based businesses scale, maintain profitability, and empower organizations for long-term independence. He also shares insights on leveraging intellectual property and automation to optimize consulting operations and achieve greater efficiency.
—Grow Your GovCon in Both Directions with Kendall LottGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Kendall Lott, the CEO and President of M Powered Strategies, a management consulting firm that empowers government and nonprofit clients to serve the public more efficiently and effectively. Welcome to the show, Kendall.
Hey, good afternoon. Good morning. I guess it’s still morning here, but it’s nice to meet you again. So, thanks for having me, Steve
It’s great to reconnect and talk about govcon and professional service firms and how to kind of master this magic of having the right people and the right work in your business. So let’s start with your personal “Why.” So, what is your personal “Why” and how do you manifest it in your business?
Yeah, and I think this is the key to anyone who’s going to run a small firm. And I think that’s a lot of your audiences. Thinking smaller firms. I guess anybody needs a personal “Why,” but a small firm takes so much commitment. You better have a reason for it. And then it’s almost like the money falls where it may, as we like to say, no margin, no mission. So you gotta make that profit, but you still have some dedication to why you’re trying to pull it off, and I think that’s important. My own background, just personally, I’m the eldest son of a preacher man, and my parents are both educators, so I was raised in the whole idea that helping in the public service is kind of important. So that’s just kind of where I came from. So the work that I do, which may be different than a lot of your other audience members is really around govcon, government contracting, in the context of trying to help in the management processes and we can all roll our eyes what that might mean for government work.
I don’t.
Yeah, I mean it’s tough though. Because that’s not a focus when we think of government. We often don’t think of them as well managed or even possibly interested in management, frankly, given the amount of work they do and the size of the bureaucracy and all. So I come from a public service background. I was a Peace Corps volunteer. I was a civil servant myself. I had gone through testing to get into the government and I did those kinds of pieces of work. And then I decided to be a government contractor through a large firm and then ultimately through a small firm that I took over.
And for me, one of the best things that I did that helps me now encapsulate this though, so that’s the journey here, I joined a group called Vistage, which is for CEOs, and I highly recommend that for everyone to get involved with one of those locally to the extent you want to work with peers. Because sometimes when you’re CEO, there’s no one to hear you scream. You’re in charge of your universe, and who’s going to help you out with all that? So it’s good to be able to work with peers sometimes. One of the drills that we did there was, did a couple of things that helped me after I was years in it was to boil it down. What are you after as a value? So this is not your personal values or your religious values so much, for example, your spiritual values or your family values. It’s kind of what are your values that you bring to the world as a professional? That’s what seems so important. And so for me, it boiled down. We had to do a drill. We had to put it in six words, which is a great drill to do. I came up with three couplets.
So for me, I'm engaged with the world as a person, seeking collaborators, building competence, serving others.
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And that has framed how I express myself through the firm, which doesn’t always mean a lot of profit necessarily, because you work with collaborators and you build competence and you serve others both inside your firm, with your other primes and subcontractors, your partner firms, your frenemies, as well as your clients, of course, and potential clients. And other professionals who are doing things like podcasts, the Project Management Institute that I’m involved with, for example. So that connection is really important to me. My personal identity is wrapped around being a thinker who’s trying to help other leaders use organizing principles to solve problems.
Like, so I come with a framework. They have to do the work. But you work with people to do that. So that’s my value system in serving others and showing up in the world as a professional. And that’s driven how I frame my firm’s work, which ultimately is to try and help with the management effectiveness, as you mentioned in your opening there, with government. And so that’s been difficult, but we work in that context, and our motto, our logo is serve, change, empower. Do the work, help them out, and then let them do the work without you because that’s the form of consulting that we do. We’re not operational that way.
Yeah. I like the empower as well. I think it’s very important to help people be the most productive and impactful they can be, that is the most valuable work we do, and then to achieve the mission. So these are important things. So let’s talk about frameworks, which is most of what you do for the government clients is give them the framework so that they can be empowered and effective. But you also have a framework for what you do and how you operate your firm. You call it the Tie Fighter. For those of you, Star Wars fans out there, the Tie Fighter model. So can you speak to that a little bit?
Yeah, I’ll speak to it. The reason I call it that is because just the shape. Something that I realized, this is for services firms, we have models for production, manufacturing, and you think of them as input process output models, for example. There’s a whole bunch of raw materials that get processed through a system and it produces goods. That’s kind of the classic post-Victorian era thinking.
And when I was thinking about my own company in terms of services, I was like, the focus isn’t on producing the things, the focus is on engagement with humans, our clients. And I don’t have raw materials. I have people who bring skills of some level and then I help professionally develop them. In many cases, I tend to hire junior career people and build them along and move them along in their careers. Part of my service to others inside. So when I realized that, along with a comment I asked a guy who was very big in physics, a theoretical physicist, and I asked him, like, what are some key concepts that I would have to know about the universe? He said, the first thing we understand is there seems to be this hidden symmetry in things. And that got me thinking. So a lot of us in your audience may be aware of this.
You think of your sales pipeline, like there’s these people that you kind of know, and then they get a little closer. You have that funnel, that classic funnel. What I realized, if I put the funnel on its side, and then I begged for symmetry, I was like, huh, I’ve got two funnels coming into the center, so it’s like the shape of the tie fighter, or a bow tie, actually. What we’re actually saying is, our firms and services firms sit in the middle of an interaction, and the process is not production. The process is this act of looking at an entire market of potential clients. Their requirements, there’s all this need out there, all of your people are delivering to a need, your audience, all of you as CEOs are delivering to some need that you perceive, but they don’t know us and we don’t know them yet.
So it's this big undifferentiated mass of need and that's the top of the funnel.
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Or in my case I’ve took that on its side. As you bring that funnel in, particularly in government contracting, there’s some specific steps we do. You start doing that business development. Are you the kind of client I could help? Do you have the kinds of needs that I could help with? And then as you bring that in, you get into what we call capture, which is in the government, there’s a whole system of preparing for proposals and getting their ideas or their requirements together. So there you’re getting alignment, and that funnel gets tighter and tighter. And then finally you get down to, oh, there may be a proposal.
And you answer a proposal, and then there’s this moment where you decide, are you gonna propose? And the government decides that they accept it. If they do, you’re now in my house. I’ve got the requirement from a client in the house. My job is to now deliver that back to that specific client. So those are the kind of the struts. It comes in, and then it goes out as delivery. So I viewed that as like, okay, that’s interesting. The funnel works down and then we go out and we do the work. So what’s the symmetry there? So that’s up top and bottom symmetry, but there’s left and right symmetry, which is as a firm, I’m bringing in the requirements, but I produce that with the organization of the firm and all of the consulting labor that’s needed. So then I was like, well, it’s the same problem, and there’s reason for seeing it as same.
On the left side of my model is all of the potential people I can hire. Steve, I could hire you. I could bring in an SME, there’s a price where you’ll come in and help me out. There’s a price. Oh, no, there’s a price. It might be a trillion dollars, but it’s a price. So there’s all these people that might want work. That have something to offer a market, but they don’t know how to go to market. My firm is that funnel for connecting them to the market. We’re tying it together. So what I realized was I need to bring in people and get them interested in my firm, put on a podcast for example.
Go to events and marketing where I’m marketing for candidates. And then eventually you find people that are like, I think I have the kinds of things you want and you might have work for me in some future. So you engage in the same kind of what we would call capture on requirements, but on this side we call it recruiting. It’s a real person that I want to talk to get them to come to me. Of course, when you really want them, when you have real requirements coming in, your goal is to hire them. Same thing, they go through a panel and screening. You bring them in and there’s a decision point. And if they pass, if you pass, if they want in and you want them in, they enter the bucket, they enter this center command pod with you. They come into the house. So now, what does that mean as a CEO?
That means that I have to time and consider how fast and how clearly I'm bringing in things from the right-hand side of this funnel into very specific requirements called the contract.
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And the left-hand side of this funnel, very specific skills of a consultant who signs a contract, and we put those two together for the delivery. And what flows backwards is money. The client then is pushing money back up the strut. I keep some in-house and the rest goes back out to that labor market in the form of compensation.
And these resources, employees, 1099s, are they only for that specific job or you want to make them part of your organization permanently?
Well, there’s no such thing as permanent because no margin, no mission. So we have to have profit for that. We are project-based and that’s frustrating for a lot of people. I will say this, government contracting typically, although it’s project-based, if you will, tends to have longevity in the sense that it’s often they will sign a contract for one year plus two option years. So they don’t have to keep going with you, but they often do if they can or one year plus four years or six month base period plus three, six month option periods or something.
So it tends to be project based. It is a problem when you have the secular cyclical life cycle where you might lose a bunch in a row. You’ve got a bench that you can’t support anymore and that is a problem. Now we do have some permanent staff that are the structure and we do have W2 employees that are constantly delivering because projects sometimes is some of your CEOs might know if they’re in the consulting space, this is the trick with consulting, is those tend not to be like full stack if you’re not always putting 10 people on site with the government for three years.
It might have a lot of discontinuity in the delivery right a lot of work at the beginning and then you wait do some change management on the back end with a different staff who’s only working half time. So blending that classic problem of project managers, in fact, is blending resources across projects, or across activities within a project. So we have both W2s that are permanent that we try and keep, but we just had a gap in a contract, for example, where we’re trying to maintain the bench that we will need because we think that contract will come back or others like it. So I am trying, I’m stretching, to be able to maintain that staff through that for continuity.
But see, that’s the magic of the model. Because I just anticipate what comes in and anticipate what I need to bring in so that I can bind them together in the way my company works, the culture we have, the way we work with people in the house, which includes developing the IP that we’re trying to work.
I'm a thinker who helps people with organizing principles, models, and frameworks to get work done, to plan and decide things, make decisions.
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I’m just wondering whether this is a specific model that works well in govcon because it’s a long sales cycle perhaps, but you have plenty of time to find the people and make sure that you’ve got the right team for the job. There are some other consulting where there’s more urgency. They want it yesterday and they want the team to be right on. Would that model work for that kind of job or it’s more where you have the time to put your team together?
Quite the opposite. It works better in the non-government way is my guess. And I’ll tell you why. Because it just means and that’s the beauty of a good model. So let me back up one step. By having this model, which may seem obvious to people, I’ve literally been able to say, what part of my work inside do I need to fix? Do we have enough business development going on? Do I have enough capture going on? Do I have enough recruiting going on? Am I doing enough improved delivery through improved IP and better methods? Am I training my people well enough? Oh my God, I’ve got them out there, now I need to step their game up.
As a CEO, I have to make sure someone, or me, is doing that while somebody else is still making bids. So, this model allows me to pick, I almost see it as a place that glows. I can start seeing weak links. It’s like, oh, this next year, we better start building more capacity here. I need someone paying attention to that now. So to your point, I would say to someone in this model, that’s like, whoa, our problem is not the requirements so much, but fast spin up. I would say then you more than ever have to emphasize the left-hand side of this model, which is getting out in front of candidates and doing the recruiting. We have people talk about business development, part of the sales cycle. This is candidate development.
More than ever, you will have to invest in readiness. Having a bunch of SMEs, for example, subject matter experts or high-end consultants if that’s what you need, or whatever your needs are, kind of at the ready, which means you will invest as a firm, possibly throwing, I don’t know, there’s a lot of ways you could do this. One of them could be, we constantly have parties, not with our clients, but with potential candidates that are waiting to get in our firm as soon as we have one. So more than ever, this model actually would tell you, your emphasis needs to be here. My emphasis has to be on the sales cycle more, as you said, but in another one, that just means this is a shortened sales cycle and a longer candidate recruitment cycle.
Okay, so let’s then talk about how this model can be scaled, if at all. So can this model, a govcon model, when it’s a project-based, it’s limited recurring revenue, where your lack of margin prevents the mission kind of situation, is it scalable?
Well, let’s talk about what you mean by scalable. Tell me what you mean by that. Because by my words and definition, nothing in services is scalable. So it just simply isn’t. You cannot take a marginal change like you can in an engineering code and now produce that to 10 million users. It’s just not, it doesn’t work that way. So products are scalable, services aren’t. Generally speaking, and people can challenge me on that, and I’d be interested in hearing about how we can see that differently. But generally speaking, it’s not scalable in the sense of replication with a marginal increase for dramatic magnitude wise output.
Well, it’s not scalable as a digital product, but still you’ve got the big four consulting firms are still growing. They are getting into different consulting fields. They are hiring more people. You can look at Accenture that’s scaled to a major firm. And then you have all those recurring service firms who are providing recurring services, starting with my loan care or the pest control and all that stuff. This is service and it’s scalable because they can get more customers and then they can rationalize the delivery of it. They can put technology and processes in, they can make drive efficiencies. It’s scalable. So in that sense, obviously it’s not exponentially scalable, but it is scalable organically. So how do you scale or can it be scaled? Now you said it cannot. So is there a way that it can be grown then?
Yeah.
When you still have these two funnels and you have this matching thing, what are the elements that would allow you to grow this business without taking on exponential risk?
Yeah, no, I think then your question is, is can it grow? Because what you just described in the large consulting firms is they grow. They get more requirements and they just get more people that look like that. So until they run out of potential labor market, it can always grow. So can this grow? You betcha. In fact, my point of thinking through the model was that what happens if I start to grow? Because if you’re small, particularly in the consulting environment, with 12 consultants or something, and I got up to about 50, we’re about 24 now, 25 at the current time. But when you’re only small, as a CEO, you do it all anyway.
You’re doing all the administrative stuff, you’re trying to manage the culture or whatever, and you know all the people, and you know a lot about all the people, as well as all the clients. So this was to break that model, because what happens if I start having more clients with slightly different needs where it’s not the same management service necessarily? So because the IP is owned inside, the idea of a, I call it IP, but it’s the way we approach things, so it is intellectual property. This is to enable that scaling, to realize that, oh, this is more than me knowing a couple friends that I can pull in because I’ve got this client over here. It was to allow you to basically industrialize, to set somebody up to say, you go and get this, you go and get this, here’s where they come together.
And here’s why it’s scalable in the words that you used. And this is the part that confuses people. If you think of what I just described as large funnels on either end that get tighter in here, you think of that as I need somebody in sales, those skills and capture and proposal writing and internal training and delivering and managing delivery. Somebody developing the IP that feeds the training, feeds the delivery. I need someone out here doing candidate development, recruiting and all of this. It turns out that in a small firm, you don’t necessarily wanna hire my labor group, my HR side. They’re not my candidate development people. You’re like, wait a second, that’s your people side. We got it, people side. I got my HR guy over there and he’ll go get all that, and I got my sales people over there and they’ll go get that, uh-uh. When you see it as symmetry, what you see is you’re dealing with an onion. You’re dealing with rings.
The person who’s really good at going, and I’ll make it really straightforward. The person who’s really good at going out to a conference and talking and being told no, and hearing the problems of potential clients, and trying to engage in conversations to develop ongoing relationships for requirements, that skill set is the exact same skill set I need to show up at a conference, to talk to a bunch of your audience members, for example, or project managers to say, hey, oh, you might look for a job. What kind of work do you do? It’s the same skill set. My BD person is my candidate development, my CD person.
The people who are really good at the process of grinding out a proposal are really good at the process of grinding out the panel interviews inside.
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So, in fact, it’s a reorganization of the skill sets or the way for teams to collaborate, to share. Some of my people who work in sales are the ones that most support my selection of candidates because they know what the client is wanting. What’s happening is, instead of seeing this as linear or siloed, it’s actually skill set based as you come in closer and closer. Of course, I sit with my management officer in the same.
So the more customers you have that you’re serving, the more capacity you have to network and to get more SMEs or whatever you call them, subject matter experts in the door so you can kind of grow both sides of the funnel organically bigger and bigger.
Or shrink, because really, our problem is profit, which is actually fit to market. You’re trying to grow, which is actually potentially driven by IP, particularly in the space you guys are in. Now you did mention something interesting. There are services that absolutely, well, everything can be helped with automation. And now that we have AI, and we just see that as an extension of automation, that’s getting into the management consulting side. So in fact, the use of technology is good, and is a very big help here.
So first of all, the processes that I’m talking about could be automated to some extent, or at least technology helps that. But that’s just operational. What we’re really talking about here is, is it possible to come up with IP that’s reusable that once your people get it, they understand how to get it again and again and again? And yeah, that’s called education and using a model. And so it’s absolutely scalable if you have enough clients for replication, which is the same problem in automation.
The first time you try and automate anything, the first time you used AI, the first time you used a project management software, it was miserable. You’re wondering, why am I spending 12 hours doing what I could have done for two hours on the back of a piece of paper? It’s the 15th time. That’s where the scalability or the ability to enhance growth comes in. And I think that’s really, really important. That does leave one last thing, though. The marketing, by the way, people have challenged me on this as well. Marketing sits all the way outside this bubble. The same marketing skill is needed to tell clients. I’m here. I do things. And candidates, we’re here. We do things and in fact the website in the government space often for me. it’s not sales. Nobody comes to my website to decide. Oh, I haven’t had any management consulting recently.
I think I like this firm. I do get people coming who want a job though. So my marketing is actually aimed at junior professionals that want in and get traction with working with the government. That’s actually where I focus largely. There’s some other elements to it, but that’s the main part. So, it allows you to emphasize what you want to when you think of the world in symmetry and skill sets this way. And back to your point,
I think automation, the use of technology broadly, is really important for all of us, and that's getting cheaper and easier in a broader set of fields for us.
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So I’m now using it, a lot of work we do, for example, is with facilitation and meeting management. Well, I’m summarizing notes. I mean, that’s a simple thing. I’m using it to try and drive some sentiment analysis. I’m working with a client now where we’ve got a mass of meetings where I’m trying to, you know, I know how to do the delivery and I’ve got a bunch of notes and flip charts. And I’m like, not only can I capture all that, which is nice, but the next step is, I’m being able to elicit underlying values out of it. Things of importance out of it, that are not implicit, or only implicit, I’m sorry. Only implicit, they’re not explicit. And so I’m able to bring more value to the client by doing that. So I think that happens in my field as well, and that does allow the expansion of what you can offer a market better. And that’s not necessary for my Tie Fighter model, but I think that’s true in a services model.
Yeah, I love it. I love the idea that you’ve got this Tie Fighter, you’ve got the two funnels, you have the same skills in both, so you can expand them together or you can shrink them together and then you automate and you productize potentially with your frameworks and then you create some measure of scaling here. So if someone would like to learn more about, maybe they are working at govcon, or they are a company that maybe it’s someone that is interested to be a 1099 or work with you on projects, or they are in a govcon and they know that they have some problems to solve, where should they go and how can they learn more about you?
Well, for me, they go to a website or actually probably get ahold of me on LinkedIn is probably the best way, because I’m always seeking a collaborator. Come and tell me why you thought what I said was wrong. Come and tell me why you think there’s more to it. Tell me why it’s not working for you and how you might want to fix it. This is a model about a services firm. Fundamentally underneath that is a model about how executives and how organizations work around their mission with the processes and the people. I have a framework for that as well to help understand it. But in that case, it’s my LinkedIn, John Kendall Lott, and I’m the one in Washington, D.C. metro area. There’s only two of us out there, and one was my dad, and he’s retired. So you should be able to find me there. And then of course, our website, M Powered, the letter M, mpoweredstrategies.com is the other probably best way to get hold of me. One of those two.
All right. So do check Kendall Lott, the CEO and president of M Powered Strategies out on LinkedIn and their website, his website. And if you are a professional service firm, then think about the model, the Tie Fighter, the bow tie, and how you’re bringing clients on one side, you’re bringing people who deliver the service on the other, and how do you match them, and how do you kind of leverage both sides of the family at the same time, the same people. Very powerful concept. So Kendall, thanks for coming on the show and sharing your framework. And for those of you listening, if you enjoyed the show, stay tuned. We come twice a week with new episodes and if you like it then please visit Apple Podcast, give us a review and follow us on YouTube as well. So thanks for coming and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Kendall’s LinkedIn * M Powered Strategies * Relevant tools: Function Ownership Chart™ and Mentor Meeting Model™
https://youtu.be/TM6kALhhIYMNic DeAngelo, President of Saint Investment Group, is driven by a mission to empower individuals with health, wealth, and legacy by helping them pull out the stops from their growth through smart investments.
We learn about Nic’s journey from business ownership to founding Saint Investment Group, a platform providing access to off-market real estate opportunities. He explains the Entrepreneurial Investment Framework, which includes educating yourself to grow, achieving $250k net income to become an accredited investor, investing in single-family mortgages for stability, and exploring alternative investments for diversification. He also highlights the tax advantages of real estate investments and shares strategies for identifying and removing growth roadblocks to scale a business effectively.
—Pull Out the Stops from Your Growth with Nic DeAngeloGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Nic DeAngelo, the president of the Saint Investment Group that is leading a new era of real estate investing through proprietary analysis, technology and access to off-market deal flow. Nic, welcome to the show.
Steve, great to be here. We’ve been talking for a long time and lining up schedules. So excited to catch up today, even catching up beforehand and looking forward to jumping in.
Yeah, well, I have a question for you, which you may not have expected back in February when we first spoke, which is, what is your personal “Why” and what are you doing in your business to manifest?
That’s so powerful. I think people talk business strategy and line by line and whether it’s tactics or going through deep analysis of the business, but really if you zoom out, the question is, why do we do this? Why do we work so many hours? Why do we take on the stress? For me, it’s three things every single time, health, wealth, and legacy. And really the first two lead to the third, which is the legacy piece. Everything is for that legacy piece. Health is physical health, it’s emotional health, interpersonal, all the things that make a person feel whole, feel good, have the energy and pour from a full cup. So health is first, wealth is second.
It doesn't matter how good you feel, it doesn't matter how good your intentions are. If you don't have the resources or the ability to make a significant impact, then you will be limited in your lifetime.
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So to me, wealth, it’s much less about how much money’s in your bank account and how many numbers pop up on a screen when you check your account. It’s much more about having the freedom and the ability to make the world a better place for the things that are most important to you. Then the third is legacy. Unbelievably important and really that’s the number one focus, but it comes at the end because I think the other two are so important to pour into legacy. Legacy to me, it’s education. It’s always been education. It’s so important to me to give back whatever I can and we have a ton of focus on that at Saint and in my own life. Also it’s the virtues that we put forth, the things that are valuable to us, how do we move those forward and improve the world to make it better? And then really, it’s my kids are another one.
That’s another aspect. The biggest gift that I can give to the world are kids that are competent, they have good virtues, good morals that make the world a better place, that as they move into the world, they have the responsibility to do big things and great things, and hopefully they, whatever we’re gonna talk about, whatever Saint does or any businesses I’m involved, I hope my kids just make the world an even better place and make a bigger impact. So health, wealth, and legacy are my focuses every single day. I arrange my days around those and it helps me to focus and not have dead weight in my days of doing things that aren’t important.
Interesting. It reminds me of Benjamin Franklin, early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy, and maybe legacy wise or whatever. So it’s a very classical. I like it a lot. So tell me about how Saint Investment Group is manifesting these values or this personal philosophy.
So I think the investment world is in tune with those three things in a lot of big ways, especially candidly, the wealth and the legacy piece. Maybe not as much the health side, although having financial health and having that in order, I think it allows people to focus on other areas. I think that is what the finance industry is, is an opportunity for people to grow their wealth, grow their legacy, so that they can live better lives. At Saint, we are very focused on who we help and how we can help them. Because we understand parts of the market that are different than other people. Some people might be focused on dentists or yoga instructors or a specific niche. We typically cater to people that are business owners that are much more on the successful side as far as finances and net worth.
We typically cater to individuals that are closer towards retirement or are in retirement mode. So that’s kind of more of our lane. And what we’re trying to give those individuals is opportunities to grow their wealth, have fixed income, have lower risk than average in the marketplace, and have great returns at the end of the day. So that’s what we’ve leaned into. That came from me owning businesses over the years. That came from me taking on risk in the business side of the marketplace and realizing that I needed to invest other places so all my eggs weren’t in one basket. So that’s what we’re really passionate about as far as investing goes and that’s what we do day in and day out.
I’m just looking up my notes. This was actually not something I considered for this discussion, but now that you mention it, so you talk about a three-step investment approach and that is something to do about not putting all your eggs in one basket. So tell me a little bit about what are these steps and how is it helping you to diversify or basically manage your risk?
Yeah, I think, so we’re in a marketplace today that it’s a little more defined than it used to be. We used to have what was traditional investments, stocks and bonds, and then it was alternative investments, it was real estate and all the other stuff. The world is changing. The world is changing dramatically. The stock market since 1995 has lost nearly 50% of the company count, the amount of companies that are in the stock market. So what used to be a huge and luscious booming stock market industry is now much more condensed. There’s a much more risk in less companies.
So it’s a different world today. You now have the baby boomer generation, the most wealthy generation we’ve ever seen in history. Not just in the US, but also in history. And they’re the largest that we’ve ever had in US history. All of these things are reshaping the investment marketplace. So us, listening to this podcast, us, you and I talking here today, us as business owners, it’s important to understand what that world looks like. The first is, I’d say, and this is item zero, really, this is not one, two, three, this is item zero, is understand where you’re at in your investment journey.
So if your goal is to invest, your goal is to improve your net worth, improve your income, then you really have to understand where you're at in the journey.
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You may be a business owner, you may be a W2, you may be somewhere in between. And I think from there, you can really understand, hey, do I need to get certain pieces up? What am I missing? Am I over-invested in this than the other. So a lot of that’s going to be education early on just to understand the lay of the land, what exists out there. Number one, step one, the first thing to achieve if you’re really trying to blow up your net worth and go to the moon, I think you really have to be making and taking home $250,000 of income. That’s a big step. I’m not saying that it’s not. I’m not saying that that’s not a big number for many people, but that’s first rung of the ladder for several reasons.
Is it pre-tax or after tax?
Pre-tax, yeah, pre-tax. But to you, not your business. If your business takes expenses after that and you net out to zero and you’re covering your bit, I’m saying you as an individual, pre-tax, $250,000. And the reason for that is a couple, there’s a couple reasons. The first is you have to have enough money to be able to cover your expenses and invest consistently. Simply put, that usually shakes out to about $20,000 a month. The second reason is it makes you what’s called an accredited investor. So if you’re making $250,000, you’re really the benchmark’s $200,000. I’m saying $250,000 just because it checks more boxes if you dig into kind of personal family wealth and how that shakes out.
But when you’re an accredited investor, in the eyes of the SEC, the Security and Exchange Commission, you have access to a whole new world of investment options. You have private funds, you have private individuals you can invest with, and the returns are typically much higher and the opportunities are typically much greater. The risks can be higher in some instances. Now it puts it on you as the investor to sort through a little bit. But typically, the returns are much higher than traditional markets like bonds. So now you have an opportunity to more investments. You have an opportunity with more income coming in.
And you can put a bigger chunk of cash away each month towards opportunities. So that’s step one, make $250,000. To get there, if someone were to say, well Nic, that’s easy to say, and it’s easy to say why, but how do you actually get there? I’d say education is going to absolutely be the path. The first investment to make until you’re making $250,000 is to be educating yourself, going to coaching, finding the best coaches, reading the best books, finding the best education, whether you’re W2, it’s improving your skill set with your employer and what will get you paid more. Or if you’re a business owner on the other end of the spectrum, it’s improving your business and yourself as a leader to get there.
So once you’re making step one, you’re making that $250,000. Step two,
I believe the next most potent and powerful next step is to start investing into fixed income. So that gives you more streams of income.
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Many great opportunities out there that are paying 10, 12% returns based on very stable, solid assets. I’d be looking for opportunities like those to add in your income. Many business owners know this, and I’m talking specifically to business owners right now, that you will have highs and lows. Sometimes it’s seasonal. Sometimes there’s other things that will affect your income and your business. When you’re investing and you’re setting chips aside for other streams of income, you wake up in a position where you’re not wholly reliant on one piece of cash flow from one business, from one potential, even avatar of client. That’s where I was at one point in business and I analyzed my income and realized the inside investments that I was making at the high points when I was making a lot of money were filling in the gaps for the more tough times and the tough phases in my business at that time. So step two would be to invest in fixed income. Step three, I’m gonna say invest in things that appreciate over time. Invest in assets that are going to give you a tax benefit. Invest in assets that are going to give you a hedge against things like inflation or market conditions that are longer-term investments. Things like real estate, I think are great. Some strategic stock investments, although that’s not my favorite, but long term things that grow over time, growth investments. So that’s what I would do. Income first, fixed income second, and then I’d be looking for things that appreciate long-term.
Yeah, I like it. And it’s basically, it’s a mindset that is the profit first mindset. Basically make sure you’re not putting all your eggs back into the same basket, because you may not be objective about your own business. Your own business may not be a good one. I’m not involved in all the old businesses that have spun out. So you’re taking too much of a risk for putting everything in back in there, even though intuitively, we entrepreneurs believe that the best place we can put our money is in our business. And it certainly works for some people. Famously, I think Andrew Carnegie said that I’m putting all my eggs in one basket and then I’m watching the basket. But it doesn’t work for everyone. And we know that a lot of businesses disappear. I always talk about 12% of businesses disappear each year. So put some money aside. Now you talk about fixed income and you also talk about being an accredited investor so that you don’t just have to rely on government bonds and displaying vanilla, low coupon or deposit accounts are even lower interest. So what kind of fixed income are we talking about?
So there’s a whole world of fixed income and there’s tons of opportunities. I’ll just tell you my favorite. I like real estate back fixed income. Most people have IRAs, most people have different investments, most people have different retirement vehicles that they look at. So I won’t cover things like stock market investing strategy. Many other people have covered that a million times. I, personally for my own portfolio. I mean, I just put another six figures into this exact strategy I’m looking for real estate investments that pay fixed returns. That’s what I mean by fixed income. The reason for that being I want to diversify not just in companies in the stock market, I want different industries. I want different asset classes.
And I’m a traditionally more boring investor. I don’t want things that are speculative. I don’t want things that have a lot of risk attached. So for me, in my research, digging down into layers and layers of economic data and looking at projections for the next 10 to 20 years, looking at historicals, I believe that mortgages in the US, single family houses, the mortgages behind single family houses are the most stable fixed income investment that we have in the US today. So that’s what I’m looking at and the vast majority of my focus in the fixed income space will be that for the next handful of years, 10 years probably.
Yeah, that’s interesting. And it’s easy to see why. I mean, people, they take out single-family mortgages because they live in the house. So it’s going to be a high motivation for them to not allow that mortgage to fail. And there’s also a lot of flexibility by the mortgage lenders to restructure mortgages to make sure that people indeed don’t fail and the legislation is there to support mortgage payments and collection mortgage payments and so on. Plus, you have the real estate behind it. So really the risk is very minimal there. So how does one get exposure? Because I know that mortgage banks, they originate these notes and they sell it to Fannie Mame and Freddie Mac and all these big organizations. But how does someone, a private investor, maybe a couple 100k of the investment income or income available, some of that for investment, how do we get exposure to these mortgages?
You hit the nail on the head when you think real estate in the United States or I’m going to go invest in real estate. Typically, people start by they want to buy a house and then they want to buy three houses. And then, if they work their way up, they want to buy an apartment building. It’s kind of more of a structured group. People understand houses. Many people live in houses. So it’s just an obvious investment. Very few people are thinking about this behemoth, this massive mortgage industry, because it’s assumed that it’s only the big banks. It’s only Bank of America, Chase Bank, et cetera.
But the reality is, it is a lot of those banks, and they do the majority of the originations, but very few of those banks hang onto those mortgages for the full life of that loan. Very often they’re traded, not just between the big banks, but for investors. Very often when those mortgages have issues along the way, maybe it was COVID was a perfect example. Individuals that got furloughed or laid off during COVID, they might have missed six months of payments. And then so what happens? Well, those big banks, let’s take Bank of America or Chase or any of the big names, their job is to originate. They want to create mortgages at scale. So they make the fees, they make the early interest, there’s all kinds of benefits to them doing that. Also the Federal Reserve, the controller of currencies, etc. have requirements, they reserve requirements of what these banks can hold in numbers of bad assets.
So the bank can choose to hang on to all these bad assets and really gunk their financial books up and be dealing with the Federal Reserve and the Comptroller of Currency, kind of nipping at their heels saying they need to fix these loans, or they can work with third parties and they can sell off loans that are underperforming or semi-performing or have big issues or little issues, but they’re not sterling perfect mortgages anymore and that’s what they’re trying to get rid of. And what’s interesting is, even when those mortgages have problems, we still are in an industry where 98% of mortgages in the United States are fixed rates. 30-year mortgages. We’re talking three decades of investment with a house, with an asset that backs up that financial instrument. So it’s still rock solid. We’re still in a rock solid industry where baby boomers own over 40% of the housing market and plan to live there for the rest of their lives, 10, 20, 30 years.
Then you have government backed mortgages are, what is it, north of 20%? So just between those, you have 60% of the industry that looks really stable. So when you have a minority of mortgages that have problems along the way, banks want to get those off the books and it offers huge opportunities for companies like Saint Investment to step in and say, hey, we will personally call the homeowner instead of having those big banks have to do that. So what we do in that case is we step in, we contact the homeowner, why aren’t you paying, how can we adjust your payments, how can we help you so that you stay in the home, you retain the equity, you retain the home. So your question was, Steve, how does the individual investor make the most of this huge, unknown, lesser known marketplace that’s the other half of real estate in the United States?
There’s a few ways. They can go buy mortgages on their own. There’s plenty of places to do that. There’s trading platforms like PaperStack. That’s one route. They could absolutely do that. They could go make relationships with big banks on their own. Try to get in the door with Chase Bank or Bank of America. That’s another option. Maybe take a long time, but they could do that. If they’re not willing to write huge checks of 20 plus million, then it might be a more difficult scenario to get those meetings. The other half, which is very interesting today and a newer opportunity for investors, is investing with bigger buyers, bigger operators. It used to be that if someone did it on their own and they invested on their own, they made higher returns. That’s the history of real estate. If you invest with someone else, you’re going to make lower returns. If you invest on your own and you manage the assets, you’re going to make higher returns.
Yeah. And economies of scale, if you’re only buying, onesie, twosie, and then you build a relationship, you’re never going to make back any advantage that you might have by avoiding an intermediary. Okay. So people can just go to you and then what do you do? Do you like securitize these mortgages so that people don’t invest in specific mortgages, but they’re pool of assets or, or they just pick certain mortgages. And then if that mortgage goes sideways, then they were unlucky. And if it straightens out, they are lucky. How does it work?
Sure. So there’s an opportunity for people to invest with operators that have a larger pool of mortgages. We have over 500 to quantify what that looks like. So the nice thing exactly to your point Steve is if one mortgage has a problem or one mortgage takes a longer legal process or one mortgage has any issues and stops paying or whatever there’s still hundreds that back up the cash flow stream and the value of that investment. So where people invest with us, everybody sets up the structure differently, they invest into an entity that entity invests into mortgages. So that’s who holds the mortgages on our side. So it’s pretty transparent. It’s pretty straightforward. It’s pretty simplified the structure on that. And then that entity holds the mortgages, receives the payments from those mortgages and distributes it to our investors.
Okay, so that’s clear. And then you report to the investors, I assume that this is the pool of mortgages and this is what’s going on, it makes sense. Now, what about tax strategy? So you also mentioned earlier that there are some tax advantages as well, pertaining to this kind of investment. So can you speak to that as well?
Tax issues, when someone’s making too much money, is a fantastic problem to have. For people that are listening to this that understand that, hey, you have to make decisions that make it you have strategic opportunities to invest to offset your taxes. There’s a few different ways to do this. I would say talk to your CPA. They might have other options.
The best that I've found, the most interesting that I've found is to find ways to not just reduce your tax burden, but also grow your net worth and grow your income.
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That’s the holy grail. If you can check all those boxes at once, that is absolutely what I’m looking for to offset in those situations. Real estate is, bar none, the best opportunity that I found for that situation. I live in California. California is very optimistic about how much money they can get from people on the tax side. So if you don’t have some degree of strategy going into your tax situation in California, it can be really painful and it can be a lot to manage. Real estate on that side, if you’re working with your CPA and you’re checking the boxes, oftentimes you can reduce your tax burden by 50. Sometimes if you’re really organized, up to 100% on that, and that’s through investing into properties with an operator, a fund, you can do it yourself also.
And then you can receive a tax write-off on that for a huge chunk, 50 to 100% of your tax owings, depending on the strategy you utilize with your CPA. So huge opportunity. Most oftentimes that asset over time is going to grow in value, especially a hedge against inflation. Most oftentimes if you purchased or invested strategically, you’re going to have distributions and cash flow along with that. I just don’t know any other asset class that has that degree of opportunities that real estate offers for that.
Wow. Okay. I’m sure that’s there’s more complexity than we can cover in two minutes on this point. So that’s definitely interesting. So where do people find information? So if they’d like to learn more. Yes, I’m an accredited investor. I’m looking for higher than publicly available retail investment returns. I don’t want to just invest in the stock market in this five tech stocks that is swaying the market. I want something more tangible, something that feels safer, that I understand better, mortgages. And someone wants to learn more about the tax benefits of doing that. Where can they go and how can they find out more?
Yeah, we are hugely focused on economics at Saint. So we drill down not on the, not just on the strategies of investing, although we have plenty on that, but also the economics behind it, why we do the things we do, and also opportunities that investors, wealthy individuals, high earners, etc. Things that they can take advantage of in the current environments. So we go through all those, we give all those away for free, free webinars, free books, etc. at saintinvestment.com/resources. I would start there. Tons of great stuff, we give it all away for free, all the research that we do.
Okay, so saintinvestment.com. So definitely check that out. Now, before we wrap up, I’d like to ask you a final question. So you being an entrepreneur, what do you think an entrepreneur should be asking themselves? What is the most critical question they should be asking themselves in order to be successful?
Yeah, I mean, if we’re talking in the context of an entrepreneur, a business owner, somebody that’s responsible to be the leader of a company, I think it’s growth, Steve, 100%. I don’t think there’s a question on that. It’s how do you, as the entrepreneur, as the leader, scale the business? How can you grow this? Most importantly, what’s the number one item that’s holding you and your business back from the growth? And once you can identify what that item is, what the biggest problem, what the biggest roadblock is, holding you and the company back, how do you remove that immediately?
And if you can answer that question, and you can answer the next time that you have a problem, you ask the same question and you solve it, and you have a progressive overcoming of obstacles, I think you wake up with a business that’s thriving and you’re crawling up the ladder one rung at a time, but really it’s growth. If you’re the entrepreneur, if you’re the CEO, if you’re focused more on pushing the business forward, it’s always what’s standing in your way and how to be growing faster.
I like this approach. Most people think, okay, what can I do to grow my business? And what you’re saying is, what can I do to pull out the stops that prevent from it? So the default is not that the business is stagnating. The default is that it wants to grow. There’s life force in your business that is trying to break out. It’s like the little tree that grows out of the rock. There’s life force there, but something is blocking it. So how do I find this blocker, remove it so that it can grow? It’s much more than enabling the growth that is there, rather than creating something from plain cost.
That’s exactly right. We’ve had phases in the business where our ad spend per month was over 125,000. So if we’re spending that kind of money, I could go, anybody, you could go spend that, anybody could go spend that and not get a return on that investment. So where would be the roadblock? The roadblock at that point wouldn’t be ad spend, it wouldn’t be ads, it might not even be the lead flow. The issue would be, do you know that you’re converting those leads at that point? Do you know that you’re even reaching the right people? And do you know that you’re even offering something that they want, that they find valuable? So each stage of the growth, I think, has to identify what the roadblock is, and businesses will grow naturally with those roadblocks removed. That’s been my experience, and that’s really what we’re constantly trying to identify. The number one problem to solve that’s holding our growth back.
Okay, that’s very deep. I love it. Thanks for coming up with this. Nic has some good ideas. I can confirm it to you because of his answer to this question. Check out his company, which is the Saint Investment Group. Go to saintinvestment.com.
Saintinvestment.com, exactly right. Saintinvestment.com/resources.
Saintinvestment.com/resources. And check out his mortgage investment opportunities and all the tax saving benefits that he can advise you as well on. So thank you, Nic, for coming and sharing your ideas. And if you enjoyed this show then please don’t forget to give us a review on Apple podcast, follow us on YouTube and stay tuned because twice a week we coming out with new episodes on the management blueprint. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Nic’s LinkedIn * Saint Investment Group * Relevant tools: Rock-Step Planner™, Vision & Strategy Map™, and Your Company “Why”
https://youtu.be/dfZXjxBb98cBrandon Jones, CEO of Delbert Adams Construction Group, is driven by a mission to close the knowledge gap in the construction industry, fusing his personal brand into a values-driven, sustainable business.
We learn about Brandon’s journey to create a thriving construction business that leverages technology and data to enhance project management. He explains the Financial Forecasting Framework, a strategic methodology to project revenue, align it with individual and company capacities, and identify future resource gaps or overloads. This framework enables businesses to overlay opportunity volume projections and engineer strategies to close opportunities effectively. He also discusses the importance of transitioning a personal brand into a values-driven organization to ensure long-term sustainability and success.
—Fuse Your Personal Brand into Your Business with Brandon JonesGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint Podcast, and my guest today is Brandon Jones, the CEO of the Delbert Adams Construction Group, an award-winning builder and remodeler with outstanding project management and the finest artisanship in and around Baltimore. Brandon, welcome to the show.
Good morning, Steve. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I’m excited because we’re going to be tackling a topic which has not come up in the 250 episodes that we recorded on this podcast, which is personal branding for a construction firm or for any owner-operated business. But let’s start with my favorite question, which is, what is your personal “Why” and how are you manifesting it in your business?
I think that’s a great question. It’s a question I’ve been asking myself as my career has grown and changed. I think it’s very easy for somebody to fall into a trap of starting to focus on financials, monthly financials, financial performance, and start to live their life through spreadsheets. So what is the “Why?” What do you really do this for? And for me personally, the highest goal that I can say I would apply my “Why” to is closing the knowledge gap in the construction industry. It’s a major issue for our industry. And what excites me most about doing that is it does something that’s very important to me and something I can feel very good about, which is it creates opportunity for people who have historically faced dead ends in their careers. So by closing the knowledge gap, we’re actually giving people an opportunity to grow their own careers and to start to move into roles in the construction industry, bring their knowledge with them.
So what is the knowledge gap? Why is there a knowledge gap to begin with and what’s the gap between?
A couple of factors there. So we have people that are retiring from the industry at a greater rate than those that are coming into the industry. So that’s a major issue. So we have people leaving with knowledge that are not passing it down at the rate at which we need to. So we have fewer people with knowledge trying to reach the people that are coming in, which is not enough for the industry, but it’s more than what can be touched by the individuals who carry that information. So we wind up with a knowledge gap. One of the reasons why that knowledge gap exists is that our industry, construction industry, happens to be very slow with adoption of technology. And technology can be great for expanding the accessibility to information and to making it archival for people in ways that simply in the field, hands-on, direct person-to-person training can’t do.
Yeah, that’s interesting. I heard about a McKinsey study which came out a couple of years ago, and it measured the productivity improvement since the Second World War in different industries. And generally, on average, it was like a 4x productivity improvement. So exponential. And for construction, however, it was only 10%, which was mind-boggling to me. So what are ways that you can institutionalize this knowledge inside your company to create this knowledge-based construction company, so to say?
I think that we’re looking, I’m looking at technologies that are probably more prolific and have been adopted better in other industries. So when we look at a construction management software, for instance, what we’re really doing is we’re putting the information structure in place to manage a project. But when that can be done with economy and that can be done with efficiency and that can create an accessibility to people that are in the field, to things that would have had to involve direct conversations, phone calls, trips to the job sites, those types of things, we can put people who are in position to provide that guidance, provide that technical oversight, to communicate that technical information, to do it oftentimes from the office and to do it at a broad scale much faster. So a project manager who has that knowledge or a site superintendent who can now become a project manager with the right training can now communicate that information more broadly in the course of a day and may be able to touch instead of two projects or three projects at a time, four or five or six projects at a time.
So that's communication of knowledge that can happen through the technology.
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It also does good things for the business as it relates to overhead and efficiency of operations and those types of things which a business operator or owner is going to be interested in as well.
Okay. So that’s fascinating. Another aspect that we talked about in terms of knowledge is how you manage your backlogs and your billing and your schedules and how do you forecast, because as far as I understand construction, any time that is not used efficiently is wasted forever. So it’s really critical for staff to be consistently working on projects. And weather can, of course, intervene, but to the extent possible, to be consistently working at a high productivity in order for a construction firm to be successful and profitable. So you developed a framework for maybe call it a financial forecasting framework for integrating billings and backlogs and schedules. So can you explain why that is important and how it works in your business?
Sure. Certainly in my industry, but I think this kind of crosses over industry barriers or boundaries. Even a sophisticated business sees a great deal of degradation of the value of certain core tools that most businesses have. So we have financials, that’s produced by our accounting software. That’s our rear view mirror. How have we done this quarter, this quarter past, this month past, what have you. We have our financials. We have our backlog also produced by our accounting software. That’s going to be our short-term, more or less guaranteed forecast. That’s going to lay out what we know or can say with a certain degree of certainty is coming forward. And then we have our pipeline.
So that’s our sales management software. And we can look at our probability, but that’s really our optimism scale. So how optimistic are we about the future based on what our opportunities are and how likely they are to close. So as business operators, what we have a tendency to do and what I think a lot of people rely upon is a view of the financials, a view of the backlog, and a view of the pipeline. And those views are more or less compartmentalized views. After that, what we step back into is this kind of murky, gut-driven action plan that is driven by experience, driven by the intellect of the people who are operating the businesses, those types of things. But it’s really more of a gut and hustle type attitude, which is exactly what we’re trying to avoid with a company that’s sophisticated with technology. We’re trying to avoid that gut and hustle because without those tools, we can gut hustle our way towards how do we do this month, this year, what have you, how much money do we make?
Let’s see. And we see that at the end. That’s all gut and hustle. So how much better are we than that if we don’t combine these tools in some way, shape or form, and we really can. So it gets even more complex than that because of course we have a backlog, but we also have performers. We have individual performers and we have individual departments and those types of things that are part of that backlog, but those backlogs are not necessarily synced with one another. We’ve got different capabilities of individuals within departments. That backlog, the backlog for the individual, may not be consistent with the overall backlog of the company. So you can wind up overtaxing and under-delivering opportunities to parts of your company, and then you wind up with an imbalance that winds up aggregating into an underperformance of the company or an over taxation of the company’s resources.
So how do you enable it? How do you equalize these different personal backlogs so that the company is at a consistent schedule? How do you create this figurative conveyor belt of projects so that you consistently work on them?
Well, I think you have to break it down into your component parts. So for my business, it’s the component parts of the individual producers. And that happens to be for us project managers. So project managers, individual backlog. And you can say that this project is 50 percent complete. It’s a million-dollar project. That’s $500,000. I’m simplifying, obviously, but $500,000 of remaining backlog at this profit margin, and we can forecast out how that’s going to bill until completion. And you can measure that against that individual’s capacity. That could be aggregated into groups or departments, and then that can then again be aggregated into a holistic view of where the company is.
But what you really want to do is you want to be able to drive into that individual level because that person’s capacity, that person’s expectation for production, really, we want to be thinking about gross profit production, not revenue production, gross profit production. So that individual’s role in meeting your company-wide goals is production of a certain amount of gross profit. That divided by month can give you a measure of their backlog, their performance to date, and what they’re likely to do in terms of performance. So all that’s good. We’re talking about backlog, we’re talking about financials, but then we talk about pipeline. So what is business development doing? What is sales doing? How aggressive do you want to be? What types of jobs do you want to focus on?
I think any business would love to be able to say that we fish with a spear.
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We’re going after exactly the type of thing that we want, and we’re going to successfully fish with that spear and we’re going to feed ourselves. But too often we wind up fishing with a net because we’re out there creating opportunities. We just aren’t curating what that opportunity base is. So what delivers to the dock at the end of the night? It’s whatever that net is caught. And what that does is it infuses chaos into your organization, your production team. What is the kitchen? How does the kitchen understand how to cook the fish that has arrived at the dock that night. Different fish are cooked different ways. How do we actually produce that work? Who’s ready to produce that work? Whose backlog is going to give us an opportunity to do that? Or who’s exhausted? Who has too much of their resources taken away? And therefore, we brought the wrong fish back to the dock that night.
That is really what’s critical. So what this does is it gives you an opportunity to have a clear view, not only of where you are near to date, where you’re likely to be at the end of the year or the end of a period of time, but also what kind of opportunity are you looking for? And where should you be more aggressive? With your best development efforts, with your sales effort, should you go in harder with a price? Should you be more aggressive with your price? That may be a decision now better informed by where your backlog is when you understand that in smaller pieces.
That’s fascinating. So it reminds me of what the airlines do at different times of year and different cycles of length of time to the flight. They change the prices. So depending on supply and demand, if they sold out the flight because there were a bunch of soccer players who were traveling together, then they’re going to raise the price of the remaining seats. If the sales is slow, then they’re going to drop the price so they can attract more people and they’re going to manage the volume so that they fill as many seats as possible. I’ve seen that apartment rental companies do the same thing, that depending on the length of time you’re renting the apartment, they’re going to change the price. And then as you go in time, they’re going to dynamically change the price in order to kind of optimize their revenue. So it sounds a little bit like that, that you’ve got your current backlog and existing projects and then you see the different skills and you are hunting with a spear for those fish that you will have capacity to actually cook going forward. Is this how your analogy works?
Yeah, it is. And I would tell you that an important lesson that I’ve learned is that what we’re really looking to understand is we’re looking for all of this information on the basis of gross profit. So we have a relatively consistent or predictable overhead for the business. We have a gross profit that we need to earn to produce our net income. So when we start to understand, okay, what is the backlog look like for an individual or division or whatever component part of your company, we want to understand that in terms of gross profit.
So we may take, we may be aggressive to go after a project that has a really nice revenue number associated with it, really nice sales dollar value associated with it. But in order to get that project, we needed to take a lower gross profit percentage on that project. So the assignment of a person to running that project is going to now be measured on what is their gross profit potential per month. And that gross profit potential per month on that project may be below what you hoped to achieve with that person because of the decision you made in sales. So now you have a deficit that is at the individual level that has to be made up, or you’re going to get to the end of the year, that gut driven, hustle driven year, and find out at that point, we underperformed. Why did we underperform?
Oftentimes we don’t know. Well, we can look back and say, now we’re going to have to dissect our year. Let’s dissect our year and find out why we didn’t do so well. That’s too much rear-view mirror thinking. We can be looking at this through the windshield and understand we’re still going to make that decision. We’re still taking that project at a lower margin than what we’d like to take. And our project managers could be underutilized from a gross profit production standpoint, but we’re going to offset that by these measures. We’re going to take more projects of this type. We’re going to hire another project manager in this category because we have that opportunity volume.
All of that can be better understood, better enacted, better prepared, and it can factor into all of your things.
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I talked about business development, I talked about sales, but we’re also thinking about human resources. Think about the job search. It can take six months to find a good employee.
Yeah, so there’s a high level of complexity of basically throughput. It’s the theory of constraints. So you have to create a consistent flow of high gross margin work in order to reach your plans and you have to constantly adjust because things happen along the way and you have to adjust your pipeline, which is six months into the future, perhaps, and you have your backlog and then you look at your hiring. So there are many moving pieces and to consistently manage this is a pretty complex process. Are you using a specialist software for this, or do you use Excel? And I don’t want to spend too much time because that’s still another topic I want to touch here, but how do you do that? Is this something that you’ve developed, a software, or you just have a table in Excel, a Gantt chart, and you’re managing from there?
Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of the best thing about it. The subject we’re talking about, the conversation we’re having right now, tends to be on the more sophisticated end, but the information that’s necessary to achieve something like this really isn’t all that complicated to get.
At some point, you’re having a conversation with a manager of a project and saying something as simple as, tell me how you think the rest of your project is going to bill out. And based on that project manager’s understanding of their own schedule, their own budget, their own buyout and so forth, can tell you, I think I’m going to bill this much, this much, this much over the next three months. And that’s all. What you need is the tool back behind it. You need the ability to input that and to be able to do all the calculations that are necessary to give you the information you need. It’s not very complicated. A given project’s running at a certain gross profit margin. That’s already understood. That project manager gives you their billing amounts, their totals, their projected billing amounts, best guess today.
That’s all we’re asking. And you understand how to take gross profit per month out of that just based on your margin. It’s really simple stuff. It’s a somewhat sophisticated tool. I mean, it was a complex tool to put together, but once it’s put together, the collection and processing of information is very simple. It’s really the understanding that this is how you need to think about running a business that’s most important. And it took us a lot of years, and I hate to admit it to you. I’d love to tell you that I knew this earlier than I did, but we’ve always had these tools, financial, backlog, pipeline. We’ve always had the tools. We never put them together.
Yeah, that’s super important and it’s very cool because a lot of companies struggle with creating that flow and how to create the tool that will help them make that flow more consistent. Let’s switch gears here and let’s talk about another very exciting topic that you raised earlier, and this is the personal branding of the owner or the founder or CEO when transitioning a business and how that plays into the company’s future and what to do with the personal brand. So what is your experience with the importance, what is the importance of a strong personal brand and what kind of complications can it cause for a business as it transitions to the next generation or to maybe a different owner?
I think what’s really hard at the beginning of creating a company is understanding what that future looks like. So I can come to you and your household and your family and say, imagine what your family’s gonna look like in 10 years. And you can kind of close your eyes and think about what that looks like. So I can talk to a family about renovating their house and they have three small kids. And I can say to them, you have to think about what your house is gonna look like when those three small kids are 18, 14 and 11 years old. They’re bigger creatures. They’ve got more stuff. They’re moving around this way. They have cars. They have all these types of things that you can’t think about. So the reason why I bring that up is I think a lot of times it’s very difficult for us when we start a business to understand what that business is going to look like down the road and what our own exit strategy is. How do we plan on getting eventually out of the business that we create? And a lot of us create businesses based on a particularly strong skill that we have.
And we create a relationship with a community that's driven by that skill. We become known for that skill and we grow around that skill.
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So a personal brand or a brand that’s really driven by the owner of the company’s particular special skill is not an uncommon thing to find. And it’s certainly not uncommon, it’s extremely common in the construction industry to find that being the case. I know a lot about construction. I’m savvy, I can talk to people, I can solve people’s problems. And as a problem solver available to the community, I generate business. So I hire people to help support me. I hire my right hand, left hand men, women, so forth. That’s what I do, that’s how I’ve grown my business. Now, how do I get out of my business?
So it’s a difficult challenge, it’s a difficult problem, because what you hope to have created is you hope to create business value. Business value that can endure beyond you. Business value that’s understood intrinsically by the marketplace, but also potentially business value that is a financial relief for you as you leave the business. Can you sell your business or do you have to close? We all face that, we face that question. And so if we can have the foresight when we start a business to anticipate that thing, then we’re going to position ourselves as the brand leader in a certain relationship to the brand itself. So we want to put the brand out front and have ourselves back behind that brand. To change from being out front of the brand and pulling the company with you, behind your brand, personal brand, to stepping behind the brand is a very, very difficult thing to do. It’s an expensive thing to do. You have to retrain a community of people to think about your company differently.
And in order to be able to do that, you have to infuse your own values, the values that are the origin of the company that you drove your company off of. Hopefully you’ve driven your company off of more values than just your sales ability. Hopefully there’s something beyond that, something more important in the value set of your company that can be understood and processed and supported by other people, that they can feel that and they can start to act on that. So by asking yourself, what is the purpose? Why do I do what I do? I’m gonna start to say, well, this is why we do what we do. And now, therefore, what I’m going to do as the leader of this company is I’m going to put my people in position to not only execute, but to have the tools to support execution of work on this value set. And so the community of consumers start to have a relationship to a business that functions a certain way, a business that represents, and all the things it does, these values, and that becomes the attraction. So it can be a shift, it can be done.
It can be something where a company’s founder can be succeeded, but we have to understand how to do that. And it’s very difficult for people. One of the things that I understand well, and I can relate to very well, is that it’s very difficult for people to let go. It’s very difficult for people to step back.
When you've been out front, and you have created something that's so precious to you, it's a business that represents you.
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It represents you individually in a market. It’s very difficult to step back from that, and to start to hand that to other people.It’s your identity. So what you’re saying is very interesting. And I often see that the companies who successfully navigate this transition or transmute the brand of the owner into the fabric of the company, they do that by articulating what are those core values that this owner has represented. And the chances are this owner or CEO would have hired people like them. So that possibly other people also embody these values. So what are these values? And then how do you articulate that and reinforce that so that the organization, even when the founder is gone, is going to look for people who embody the same value and therefore build these values of the founder into the DNA of the company and transmute it that way?
I would tell you that it’s interesting what happens when you ask the question of somebody, why do you do what you do? I mean, you wake up, Steve, every day and you come to work as you, with your intentions, running your business the way that you believe you should. But when somebody steps back and asks you or forces you to step back and say, write and explain to me what you do and why you do it, and how would I do it? That’s a very difficult thing to do. We’re operating on our gut and our instinct. We’re making decisions that come together, they form our identity. Individual decisions every single day that form our identity, and we’re proud of it. So how do we start to break that down? How do we make that digestible? We don’t often even ask ourselves the question, because we’re so used to being us. It’s hard to help other people understand how to be like us.
Yeah. So that’s a great segue to the last question I want to ask you before we wrap up here. What do you think is the most important thing for an entrepreneur or CEO to ask themselves?
I think it gets back to what you asked me at the beginning of the podcast. Why do you do what you do? What is it that you’re looking for? What is it that you hope to achieve? I understand that a business really is looking to understand something in a hierarchy of needs of a consumer that is something that the consumer may not know that they’re actually looking for. They may not understand that they are actually seeking out something that is beyond their needs or their wants. And that somewhere in there is our purpose. And when we can find that purpose, identify that purpose, and build a system around pursuit of that purpose, that it becomes easier to look and say, my job today is to create a tool or a device or put a piece of software in place or to find some kind of solution that can help my people execute that purpose. And so when it does come time to exit the business, we’ve already done that work.
So as an entrepreneur starting a business, to ask the questions like this, are really asking questions, what is my company going to become? And one of the subsets of that question is, how am I going to get out of this business someday? It’s hard to think about that when we’re starting, but it’s important to think about that when we’re starting, because that is the key that unlocks many of the things that we do on a day-to-day basis.
Begin with the end in mind.
Yes.
That’s awesome. This is fascinating. So we talked about a framework to manage based on the theory of constraint, the flow of a construction business, or it could be any project-driven business. So how do you make sure that you are executing, you’re optimizing, maximizing the growth, high gross profit projects in the right sequence so that you keep your staff busy with the most valuable work they can do on an ongoing basis, looking ahead at the pipeline, at the backlog, at the hiring needs. And then we also talked about how to infuse your personal brand into the company so that it’s no longer you that is in the minds of the market, but your company represents those values that you infused into the company and your company carries your DNA forward. If people would like to learn more about you, about what Delbert Adams Construction Group can do, or they want to connect with you, where should they go and what should they do?
Certainly. Well, starting with our website is a good place to start. That’s www.dacgllc.com. DACG stands for Delbert Adams Construction Group. My contact information is there. I’d welcome any of your audience to reach out to me directly. Reach out to me by email is probably best, bjones@dacgllc.com.
Awesome. Well, definitely check out dacgllc.com. It’s a fascinating construction business. Brandon, thanks for coming and sharing your experiences and learnings and your methods with our listeners. And if you enjoyed listening to this podcast, make sure you give us a review on Apple Podcasts, you follow us on YouTube and stay tuned because twice a week we’re coming with exciting entrepreneurs who are sharing their unique frameworks with you. So thanks for coming, Brandon, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Brandon’s LinkedIn * Delbert Adams Construction Group * Relevant tools: Function Ownership Chart™, Our Summit Vision, and Vision & Strategy Map™
https://youtu.be/RByUM0fYtnoSathya Elumalai, Founder and CEO of Aidar Health, is driven by a mission to solve the problem that really matters: ensuring no one loses a loved one due to lack of access to timely care.
We learn about Sathya’s journey from creating Aidar Health’s flagship product, MouthLab, inspired by his own family’s healthcare challenges, to developing a strategic approach to finding and refining his company’s target market. He explains his “How to Niche Your Business” Framework, which includes five key steps: starting with a shotgun approach, enabling potential customers to self-identify, focusing the message on a hot market, offering free samples to collect data and use cases, and eliminating bottlenecks to refine the product. This framework demonstrates how thoughtful strategy and data-driven insights can help businesses achieve product-market fit and drive impactful growth.
—Solve the Problem that Really Matters with Sathya ElumalaiGood day, dear listeners, Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest again is Sathya Elumalai, who is the founder and CEO of Aidar Health, the creator of MouthLab, a non-invasive handheld home monitoring device that measures more than 10 vital medical parameters in 30 seconds. Welcome back to the show, Sathya.
Yeah, thanks, Steve, for having me. It’s a pleasure to come back after a couple of years. Nice to be a part of it again and looking forward to chatting more.
Yeah, it’s great to have you back. I think it was three years or something that and your business has evolved. And in fact, during the time you developed another framework that we’re going to be talking about. But let me ask you first this. So what is your personal “Why?” I don’t think we touched upon this in the first episode three years ago. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing in your business to manifest it?
Absolutely. I think my personal “Why” has been very close to my home experience. So I needed some kind of a help to help my mom navigate the complex chronic conditions that she had. She was facing a lot of obstacles in terms of getting timely and accurate health insights. So I poured in everything that I had. I thought, probably it would be a two- to three-year journey, but it took us almost eight, nine years today.
Through using technology, we were able to create a more holistic care for my mother and also help improve her quality of life. And more importantly, it helps us to and help me to personally extend her life and have her stay with us for a lot longer. But today, sad to say that I lost both my parents this year within a span of three months to the same condition at the same circumstances, which deepen my “Why” and my mission now is not just to help people with chronic condition, but also starting with technology, how we can use technology to empower people and also the caregivers to stay one step ahead in terms of managing their chronic condition, enabling proactive care, and also helping them to better understand where they are in their care journey. And that’s what really helped me to even start Aidar in the first place.
And I believe creating a world where no one has to lose a loved one because of lack of access to timely care. So that's what has been the company's goal. And it's more than a company mission. It started as a personal mission.
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And I’m hoping to honor my parents’ legacy and turn that loss into more meaningful and help a lasting change in healthcare.
Wow, okay, that is very inspiring. And really, I mean, especially people who are in nursing homes, and we’ll talk about this in a minute, but they really can become cut off from their family and who’s gonna look after them and how are they gonna be looked after and how can you empower the people in the nursing homes to help these people get the best care and elongate their lives. That is pretty cool. So let’s talk about this because I loved how you actually discovered a great way to find the market for your product. And we can actually talk about it as a framework because other people can also apply this methodology. So it’s kind of a framework for business to find their niche. So can you share with us how that came about, how you stumble upon this, and then what are the elements of the framework?
I kind of consider this more a precision pathway. It’s more like a strategic approach designed to help businesses identify, engage, and refine their target market. It’s about starting it more broad and gradually narrowing it down. The framework actually enabled me to actually find a more receptive audience and use a more data-driven approach to develop a more targeted strategy.
So I think the process really starts with casting a wide net, allowing potential customers to identify, self-identify themselves, and also use data and feedback to focus on well-defined niche.
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So ultimately removing all the obstacles to adopt and scale. So some of the elements I look at, maybe around five elements that I looked into, starting with like more a shotgun approach. So the initial phase is more about gaining broad exposure and exploring potential markets without preconceptions. Okay, this is how the market is, especially for a device what we have built, it’s phenomenal, it has a lot of different areas for growth and it can be positioned in different settings.
So Sathya, sorry to interrupt, but how do you actually do that? So what are the mechanics for applying this short-term approach? How do you get in front of people and how do you even get to a position where they can self-identify?
Yeah, so basically attending, for example, large conferences and talking to a wide range of people, the goal is to actually send the message across to a wider audience and see how they interact or get that value about a technology. And this has been very helpful for me personally. I spent like going to some big conferences like health and the HEMS and other healthcare related conferences. Although there’s a lot of noise there, but it feels there are some set of population or customer segments who really would be interested and show value. And that’s what was a starting point for us. That’s the first one. The second element is more about self-identification by customers. So specifically for us, we last year, we had one of our long-term care facilities that we’re working with today reached out to us and they told us, hey, we are doing a lot of work in terms of remote patient monitoring and we’re using a lot of data science techniques to help predict and prevent a hospitalization within a nursing home.
But then as the phrases say, garbage in and garbage out, mostly they’re getting data from non-validated medical devices and sometimes data that are coming from technologies that are not fully used and or widely used. Even with a single nursing home, there’s tons of different data streams coming from different devices. So, we actually received specific feedback from this customer where they felt like a device like this could be phenomenal because it can not only just provide a wide range of data, but also coming from the same source, so that it’s much more reliable. That’s the self-identification process. The third one is more a rightful approach. It’s a narrow focused approach.
So first, you can cast this large net, and then see who responds, and then you had these nursing homes who realized that this is exactly very helpful to them because then they can do all the examinations very quickly by the nursing home staff. So they said, hey, we want to learn more. We’re going to do this. And then the rifle approach was drilling down in that niche. Was that or was it something else?
Perfect. There’s a great segue into the third one where this is more about addressing what’s their current challenges. Going into there is an interest. There’s a need for a data, but I think there’s more than that. There’s underlying problems within long-term care or nursing facilities. So with targeted messaging and tailored interactions, we were able to engage in a more meaningful way within a well-defined market. We know this is a market and sort of going in different direction. Then the shift was more towards smaller niche conferences that align specifically with our target audience. So we started focusing on nursing home related conferences.
So for example, most of our customers are in Florida and as you know, there’s a lot more, a lot of people wanted to retire there. So we identified conferences that are very specific, going to 20,000-30,000 member conferences to now narrowing it down to 100-200 people was very specific. So we were able to directly talk to the decision makers and one conference could lead to at least 30 or 40 customers in a way, versus a larger conference, although it gave feedback, but the decision makers were not present in most of these conferences or hard to find. That’s where we took the fourth step or more a data driven distribution. So as soon as we got this product market fit and understanding, the next big question is okay, where’s the data. I mean, there’s a problem. Just understanding that there is a problem is not going to be helpful for us to one, do any meaningful impact. And also investors, if they really wanted to invest, they want more data. So that’s why we started to do some pilots where we were giving out free devices and technology platform, and then use it as an additional thing. So we actually help provide it to our potential customers where they were able to use the technology, the processes, and see how this end-to-end system works.
And that data was very helpful for us because sometimes some of the facilities were saying, hey, this is great, it reduced the time by half in some of the cases, and in some cases, they talk about errors. Most of the time, nurses, they don’t have time to monitor and also take notes and input it into an electronic medical record, where a lot of things were actually managed better, so now there’s no need for them to actually manually put anything from a paper to an electronic medical record, our device sends the data directly to the EMRs. So that was very helpful.
So how did you do that? How do you actually get to from this point of finding a market, they self-identified, you kind of drill down, you investigate what they really want and what the needs are, and you reach them and they said, hey, let’s get some data of how you would use that or what you would get out of that. How would you actually get the data? What was the mechanism for you to connect the dots there?
I think the biggest thing was there is no specific change in the workflow of what nurses are doing today in terms of collecting data.
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So they use multiple devices to collect data. So what was our initial selling point is hey, you don’t need all these different devices. Here is one device and it takes these 10 parameters, right? So first-And can you show the device? Do you have one handy?
Yeah, sure, absolutely. So this is our device, yeah. So it’s more a breathalyzer. You actually place it in the mouth, breathe through normally for 30 seconds. At the end of 30 seconds, you perform lung function test. So you take a deep inhale and forceful exhale. And the only thing that was it also helped us, we instead of building hundreds of devices, we can just build a handful of devices for nursing homes and give each patient a unique mouthpiece. So as soon as they put it in, we actually know which patient is using the device. So it was far more easier from that perspective instead of dealing with multiple devices.
That’s awesome. So you’re basically, your device is the data collection mechanism that you give out and then you can identify the individual patients because they have the unique mouthpiece that goes to them. And then how do you use that data? So how is it helping you to expand your business by getting access to this kind of data?
I think the biggest challenge that nursing homes are facing today is access to good quality data. So for us, our device is designed in such a way that it can collect all these data and push that data to the nursing homes EMR. But more importantly, the biggest value add that we are looking and then into and we are presenting to our customers is how this data can help predict or prevent an adverse event.
Because even a single resident leaves a facility, they are losing a lot of money, close to eight to ten thousand dollars. So the approach was to okay, provide data and insights to see, okay, here is how the time it’s taking to take all these vitals instead of multiple devices. Here is a time and then costly human error that could occur if they are using like manual method, instead the data sent directly to our system. And more importantly, this data can be used to actually predict worsening of health. So today the physicians can actually see what was the baseline of the patient and what happened with the changes in health over a period of time. And we more importantly work with physician network who oversee the data 24/7. So they are actually getting alerts when a clinician set threshold is changed.
So in that way, we’ve already called the nursing homes a couple of times and we were able to at least inform them about an upcoming hospitalization for this patient. So which is where these calls helped the director of nursing in these facilities to actually take appropriate actions and also the medical directors. They probably spend rounds a couple of times a week. So they don’t really look into each and every patient in a more granular way, but our platform can give them that level of access so they can look at the data anytime, anywhere, so they can provide more targeted intervention to patients.
It’s almost a security monitoring system where the cameras in the house and then when you see that someone with a ski mask coming through the window, then you can call the owner and say hey, you don’t belong here, make sure you pay attention.
Exactly. It’s more an ADT monitoring system for Health.
Yeah, that’s awesome. So I’m just wondering how this approach can work for other entrepreneurs who may be, and they’re not in the healthcare, they are in other industries. So I love this idea that, hey, we have an idea. We know that we can help people, in your case, it was healthcare. At end conferences, talk to a bunch of people. It’s essentially you’re testing the market as to whether your message resonates and it helps you refine your message. And then you might find a particular niche that will be super interested to take this on because it’s a really good fit for them. And then you work on drilling down and working more intensively with that niche. And then you find a mechanism to collect data. Maybe you give out the sample in return for the data. In your case, it was even better because you provided a great service. So both you and the customer was benefiting from them giving you the data. So it’s an ideal situation. Then how do you use that data to refine your product and to make it better and more powerful?
Yeah, I can give you one of the examples. So we built this mouthpiece. It’s more one size fits all. We had just one mouthpiece version, but then I think working with these nursing facilities, before, we were distributing it to patients’ home, they use it, even if they had challenges, they often talk about those challenges, but it’s not really something that’s preventing them from the use. But with the nursing home, we saw different level of acuity with patients. So some people were not able to use these mouthpieces because it was a little bit bigger for them. So we were able to get that data. We were able to see okay, what kind of patients can actually use it versus not use it. We don’t want to eliminate anyone just because the mouthpiece is bigger. So we ended up designing a new version of the mouthpiece and we were able to see a smaller version. Our initial data suggested that it could actually compromise the quality of the data, but actually it did not.
We were able to use it on a different users, tried it, tested, and they were able to clearly show that there is no compromise in data quality. So that’s one example. But also in terms of when we went in, we thought okay, the process of collecting this data and process of putting it in and then showing that value from the disease prediction or hospitalization prediction perspective. But I think all these nursing homes go through a lot of surveys. There’s a lot of need for, I would say, infection control and how it is better managed. So we were able to show through this data, there’s more proactive approach. People are coming in, the nurses or CNAs, they come in, they clean the device, then they provide it. So there is a process, which even the surveyors actually look at it and feel confident that it’s far more comprehensive than just picking up some devices randomly and using it without a procedure or policy in place. So that’s why these kind of data further helped us to solidify our, I would say product market fit and also deliver a clear value proposition for our customers.
That is awesome. That’s a great process. So, that allows you to kind of keep refining, eliminating bottlenecks so people cannot use the product well and redesign it and keep iterating. That’s awesome. So I’d like to switch gears here a little bit and ask you about another aspect of being an entrepreneur. So Aidar Health is a startup company and you raise money in order to develop your product and then distribute and reach your market, how do you balance your energy between how much energy you’re putting in raising funds and then developing a team and growing your market? How do you know where to put the emphasis and how best to manage your time?
I think it’s probably a billion-dollar question, I would say. I mean, it’s a continuous and intentional process. So, and in each area is deeply interconnected. So, I developed a mindset for treating them as part of the same mission rather than separate tasks. Let’s take, for example, fundraising.
It's about not just about securing the capital, it's about sharing the vision of Aidar Health and forming that strategic partnership that can help us accelerate our growth.
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When I’m with investors, I’m actually looking to attract those who believe in our mission and who can add value beyond just financial backing. This ensures that the funding processes directly fuel the team and our marketing efforts. And when it comes to building the teams, that’s where I focus a lot of attention at this time, because, ultimately, the team is the backbone of everything what we do, right? I mean, knowing and seeing what people are doing on a daily basis is what really pushes me and also everyone. So I look for really individuals who are not only skilled but also do they have a similar “Why?” I mean, do they have any value? What would Aidar do to them personally or to their families? So that’s another area I look into. So I keep the team motivated, align them towards their “Why” so that the product innovation and market development and overall company is in the same direction.
It’s about the race. And then we all have to be in sync. So even when we face challenges, the team shares a purpose. It keeps us going, having a clear mindset. And then lastly, from a market side. I’m sure it helps, it kind of helps me to connect with our customers and partners, gain insights from them. Because as I was talking about from the approach, a lot of things come out of customer conversation. So it’s always exciting to know that somebody is actually talking, thinking about your technology. So what it really helps me is to adapt our technology quickly to a situation or a product or a customer need so that we can build a more real world impact with our technology. So to answer the question, it needs a lot of energy and focus. So I keep a clear sense of purpose and prioritize activities that directly pushes our mission forward, allowing to have a more balanced approach overall.
Yeah, so what I’m hearing is that really by focusing on your mission and proselytizing it to different groups, essentially, it’s a multi-directional approach where you are learning from them and then you’re also sharing the vision and then let them, empowering them to do their part in for your customers to raise their hands for the team, how they can manifest your vision, and then raising funds is basically the same thing. So as an entrepreneur, what do you think is the most important question that an entrepreneur should be asking themselves?
So the biggest question that I think is, am I solving the problem that truly matters? So it’s very easy to caught up in great, exciting ideas. And today there’s tons of new technologies, gadgets that are coming up in the market. But at the end of the day, what’s the impact that you’re making in this world? So I just look into that, how meaningful the problem is. So asking that question really helps you stay grounded in the purpose. So if you focus on examining your solution, is it going to create a lasting value, resonate with people’s life and make the world a better place? So this question also brings clarity and resilience because when challenges inevitably arises, which is part of every single entrepreneur’s life, having a deep commitment to that problem that matters to you, that drives you forward, regardless of the situation, is very critical. So for me, the answer to this question literally kept Aidar Health focused on transforming how we are managing chronic condition for seven, eight years. So that’s the most important thing, I feel.
So I heard this quote somewhere that, “Fall in love with the problem, not your product.” So it’s the idea of focusing on, don’t fall in love with your product and think how wonderful it is because of those features or whatever, its unique design, but is it solving the problem and is it really serving its purpose? I love that. That’s great. We’ll probably use this as the title of the episode. So any famous last words before we wrap up?
I think for me, it was nice to actually see that journey, even for you, to personally see a journey coming from a pre-FDA cleared device, a company with no product market fit, a couple of years ago, to actually now having a product that is FDA cleared, having an entire ecosystem, the device, technology, integration, and the people behind it, and a clear product market fit. So I feel really excited about sharing this today with you. And it was also nice to really focus on the business strategy. So we’re not just talking about our company, but also giving examples of how these strategies can work. So thanks for giving me this opportunity. It was phenomenal to reconnect with you.
That’s awesome. So, Sathya Elumalai, the founder and CEO of Aidar Health, the creator of MouthLab. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing your framework for finding the niche and exploiting a niche in the market. And if those of you listening enjoyed this episode, stay tuned every Monday and Friday, we publish new episodes and please give us a review on Apple Podcasts and follow us on YouTube. Thanks for coming, Sathya, and thanks for listening.
Important Links:* Sathya’s LinkedIn * Aidar Health * Relevant tools: Automation Activator™, Rock-Step Planner™, and Your Company “Why”
https://youtu.be/4KzOOovNfSQSam McKenna, Founder of #samsales Consulting, is driven by a mission to elevate the sales profession through manners-first sales emails, authentic connections, and using her platform for positive impact.
We learn about Sam’s journey to redefine sales, focusing on her Impact First Email Framework, a six-step methodology for crafting personalized and effective outreach. The framework includes creating unique, recipient-specific subject lines, using authentic preview text, transitioning seamlessly into addressing the recipient’s challenges, preemptively handling objections, and avoiding the presumptive use of calendar links. She also highlights how modern sales require emotional intelligence, adaptability, and consultative skills. She shares insights on how sales professionals can stand out in today’s competitive landscape while using thoughtful strategies to drive success.
—Manners-First Sales Emails with Sam McKennaGood day, dear listeners. This is Steve Preda with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Sam McKenna, founder of #samsales Consulting, whose mission is to make a positive impact on the sales profession by helping organizations, large and small, better operationalize the most important aspects of their businesses, sales, pipeline, leader development, and LinkedIn. So welcome to the show, Sam.
Thank you for having me, Steve. Really nice to be here.
Well, it’s great to have you. So my first question is, as always, what is your personal “Why” and what are you doing in your business to manifest it?
Well, personal “Why.” So I think one of the things that I am most passionate about, as you said in my introduction, is making a positive impact. And how do we do that? So I think in a couple of different ways. One, we think about it from the sales profession perspective. I think sales, unfortunately, one, still has a bit of a dodgy reputation for most. And two, has a pretty low bar in terms of expectations of what our buyers have of what sellers are like. So it’s not hard to make a positive impact here, but I think teaching a couple of things about how to lead with a manners-first, buyer-centric approach, teach people that they can do things that are in favor of the buyer and with a little bit of good European manners, which are something you and I both know a little something about, and they can be really successful while doing it. They don’t have to cold call a hundred times. They don’t have to be really aggressive. They don’t have to be conniving. They don’t have to lie in order to be able to see success.
So I think that's one thing, just changing the perception of sales and making a positive impact there for the better.
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And then two, I think one of the beautiful things about my career is I’ve managed to build a really big voice on LinkedIn. And I think what a shame if I only use that for our financial gain and our success. So to me, making a positive impact is also thinking about how I use that voice to raise money for causes that I really care about. Feeding kids or helping with humanitarian issues, et cetera. How do I use my voice to shine a light on women that are really deserving or to empower them by hosting free webinars? And I think, finally, giving our content away to underserved communities or people that could really use it. So people in the military, people that are transitioning from teaching to sales. We’re really trying to think about how to just use our voice for good, hopefully our company growth as well, so we stick around, but also for a little bit of good in the world. I think we could all use a little bit more of that.
Okay. So I’m hearing manners-first, buyer-centric approach. That’s interesting. And I mean, you told me you’re from Switzerland, and I mean, that’s my experience that the Swiss people are fairly civilized. If I look at Roger Federer, it’s kind of an iconic example of this. So that is a good segue to the framework discussion, because this podcast is all about frameworks. And you’ve developed a framework, which I don’t know what you call it exactly, but it’s about making the first email really impactful. So tell me a little bit about what is this about and what does it look like? So how does one achieve that goal?
I think if you ask any executive, any manager on the planet, when is the last time you got a really good sales email? They’d need a minute to really think about it. And the answer would probably be like, I haven’t in decades, if at all. And I think for us, we think about that framework really intensely. It’s one of the primary things that we teach. And I know it sounds, it can be really boring. Wait, hold on. But you teach for hours and hours on an email how to write one email? Yeah, we do. Because I think one thing that’s interesting about our framework is we teach all these pieces from subject line to opening sentence to all these things, which I’ll talk about in a second. But when we teach those things, you’re actually teaching building blocks for the rest of the sales process for every other email that you get. So that will send and receive as a seller and a buyer.
It's so important that you learn the framework and the building box of that very first email.
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So let’s talk about a couple of things. As you said, we’re known for Show Me You Know Me. If you can squint behind me, that’s one of the frames that I’ve got in my background, and it’s our trademark line. And it’s really the art of doing our research on the buyer, who they are as a human, who they are as a company, what’s happening in their vertical. We try to find out as much as we can about the buyer, again, both as a person and also from a business perspective. And so that first framework is writing a subject line that makes absolutely no sense except to the person receiving it. So if you send me an email and you look like everything that’s in my spam right now, which is written with marketing language and quick question this and Sam plus Steve and makes absolutely just marketing jargon or AI jargon, you’re not gonna stand out, you’re probably going to my spam and you’re probably not gonna get opened.
But if I sent you an email, Steve, let’s say that said something about maybe Federer, if I found it on your profile, maybe something about Hungary and then plus #samsales, you’d probably be like, well, I know Hungary, I know Federer, I don’t know what the hell #samsales is, but I’m gonna open it up ‘cause at least there’s something there that stands out. And anybody else looking at that email won’t know what that means. Would that get me an open? Would better alone get me an open?
Maybe.
Okay. I’ll work to earn it. So I think that’s one thing. Like we’re all fighting for the first most important thing and how to get that email open. So it starts with the subject line, really, really important. If my email’s not open, nobody’s gonna read it and all that effort’s going to be lost. Second component of that is that first opening sentence. So if you think about what an email box looks like, what do we see? We see name, subject line, first sentence, which is the preview text.
So if we don’t nail it with that, if it comes across salesy, or if let’s say I write that really great subject line, and then I say, Steve, leading companies like yours are using #samsales for, you’re going to say, ugh, and you’re probably going to delete the email or not even open it. So I really have to nail it. So number one, I’m going to say something along the lines of we’ve yet to be properly introduced, but I’m Sam McKenna. So I want to connect the dots for you. That subject line plus that we’ve yet to be properly introduced, it’s just not something you read. And it makes you think, well, maybe we should have been properly introduced.
Let me open up this email. So that’s the second component. Or we jump right into the Show Me You Know Me. So whatever it is that we mentioned in that subject line, that’s kind of wonky. We authentically connect with it right out of the gate. Maybe somebody writes to me about Switzerland. Maybe they write to me about Federer. Maybe they write to me about the speeding tickets that I’ve had, whatever it is, the things that they can find out about me, authentically connect. Then next part of the framework is we have to get to the business part of the conversation, but you need to make sure there’s a transition. Because what most sales reps do is they write that first part and they say, Oh, I see you’re from Hungary. I had the chance to visit there years ago. That’s cool. Hey, do you want to buy our stuff?
No. So we need a transition, right? While I could talk to you about Federer all day, the real reason I’m reaching out is because of this. And this is where you want to think about the challenge they have and how you can solve that. So if you specifically say, hello, we can do XYZ for you. People aren’t going to say, I already have that. I don’t need it. Our XYZ rates are already good. We have to think about the challenge that they have. So I might say something like I know that as a modern sales organization, you have hundreds of thousands of LinkedIn sales navigator licenses. One of the things that we specialize in is training your sales teams on exactly how to use that. So that’s just what we do.
It’s not the challenge they have. So I have to think about what’s the challenge they have and what’s the hidden or forthcoming objection. That’s where the real meat comes in. And that’s what’s next. Because that person’s going to say, I have a CSM at LinkedIn that already trains me on this. I don’t need you. So I’m going to say, while you might have a CSM at LinkedIn that trains you on this, here’s how we’re different. I have to get through that objection and I have to get through to the challenge. Your teams use this, they get trained on it, but they don’t learn how to use it to sell. They just learn how to use it. So I think that’s a couple of things there. And then that final framework, that final part of the framework is the close. The close under no circumstances is a calendar link. It is so presumptuous to me and lazy, frankly, to send a calendar link along. Here’s the equivalent of that. You walk up to somebody at a bar and you say, you’re super cute, can I take you out for a drink sometime? And the person says, that sounds great. And you say, here’s my calendar link for you to schedule that date with me. What? We would never, ever do that.
So why do we do that in sales? And the other thing I would say to this, right, for everybody who objects and says, but the calendar link is so easy. You don’t have to go back and forth. Here’s what I would tell you. As a certifiable control freak, I don’t want my buyer to have to work around my calendar to schedule time with me. I want my buyer, one, I want to lead with manners-first. You tell me when you’re free and I will make it work. I’ll send the invite. I’ll do all the work on my end. I will take care of it. But, two, you tell me when it’s when it works for you, because whatever I have that’s personal, my one-on-one, my forecast call, my nail appointment, whatever that is, I’m going to move it for you. So you tell me when you’re free, and I’ll figure out how to make it work on my side. All of these components together, add up to just a different experience out of the gate. Don’t be like everybody else. It’s sending AI and scaled and veiled, inauthentic, just garbage. Be different, make an effort.
Okay, that’s great. So…
I’ll stop talking now.
No, no, I like it. So I like the idea of making the subject line very custom, recipient, preview text. Now I know what it is, but I didn’t know it a couple of weeks ago until I started sending some email blogs. The transition makes sense as well, and then the clues. Now, I have a couple of questions about this. So the first one is, it sounds like a really thoughtful email, which is great when you are on the receiving side. However, it makes the work really hard to scale on the sending side. Is this at all scalable or the idea is exactly not to make it scalable, make it a personal one-on-one outreach?
I think that the biggest question we get is, this is awesome, how does it scale? And we say, it doesn’t to a degree. So I think first, what you want to think about with, why are we so agitated about scale? Why does it have to be numbers, numbers, volume, volume? The reason for that is because our open and our reply rates are so low. So we have to send out volume because if we’re only going to get 6% of the people to open it. 1% of the people to reply has to be a lot of volume.
Except when you do this, your open rates not only skyrocket, but so do your response rates. And I’ll tell you why, because your buyers are so numb to the normal outreach that when somebody is different, when they’re polite, when they make an effort, they’re like, thank God. And frankly, they reply most of the time, even if it’s a no, even if it’s not a right now, because you earned it and they want to say, thank you, great email, not for us right now, reach out in six months or I’m not the right person, we don’t do that, here’s who we do work with, et cetera.
You’ll be amazed. And I think that’s, again, what I love about this methodology so much is how often people write us back and they’re like, holy shoot, it worked. And we’re like, we know, go do it again. So it doesn’t scale there. And the reason, the other thing you want to think about there is don’t just go to the standard person you’re normally reaching out to. If you reach out to a director of, let’s say sales every time, why are you reaching out to the director? Is the senior director, is the VP, is the AVP, RVP, are they typically involved? Are cross-functional senior leaders involved? Why don’t you reach out to the higher titles? Oh, well, they usually don’t come until later in the sales process. We have to earn our way up. So what? Start at the top. So where I also say it doesn’t scale is that you want to, instead of reaching out to your normal buyer persona, reach out to a skip level or skip, skip level and start there.
What’s the bonus of that? Because they are also so subjected to so many of these terrible emails that they’re even more likely to respond to somebody who gave the effort. And on top of that, if I reach out, let’s say to the SVP who says, great email, you’re going to actually want to talk to my VP who directly reports to me. I’ve CC’d her in. You’re now multithreaded immediately. You have two conversations. You can start to do those threads. You can talk to the VP while still nurturing the SVP, and educating them along the way. It’s a win. Now, how does it scale? Here’s how it scales to me. When you want to start to think about, okay, I’m putting in the separate, how do I replicate it? The rest of the email scales, right? The challenge you’re solving, et cetera, scales across all of those buyer personas in an organization. And once you start to get to commercial and up, let’s say 1,000 employees and up, you can use that same content that you’ve written over and over.
It’s just the Show Me You Know Me might still be custom to that person, or you can start to think about what the larger organizations, when you go to the DuPonts and the sales forces, et cetera, the Deloitte’s of the world, start to think about how you can find out things about the company and you can use that as your subject line. I’ll give you an example. So Ryan is the CEO of LinkedIn. And I looked at something that he wrote quite some time back. It was in the Financial Times. And he talked about non-making big bets, but doing like doing little small bets. Like trying things in small ways, testing the market and then going big. And so I can say something like that. I can say Ryan was just quoted in Financial Times around this. How could we help? Anyone that reports directly or directly, directly to Ryan’s going to say, what did my CEO just say? And open up that email so you can take something about the company.
You can show you’ve done your research. You can show that you’re thinking about the company, but then you’ve got to specifically tie it to how you helped solve those challenges or whatever it was that was said. So it scales to a degree, but my advice to you would be, don’t think about scale. Pick 50 people, 10 people this week, Monday through Wednesday, do your research, write your emails, save them as drafts, send them on Thursday and Friday, send your second email on Saturday or Sunday, a quick follow-up and see what happens.
I think you'll probably be surprised and then you'll probably get very excited and competitive about how you can break your own first week's record.
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Love it, love it. Very good, very interesting framework. So what I’m wondering about is, is this the new face of sales? Because in the past, it used to be cold calling and lead gen follow up or maybe generate inbound leads and then call back kind of thing. And it sounds like this is much more realistic that someone would take a cold email like that if it’s customized and follows the right sequence as opposed to cold call. So, however, my follow-up question is, if that is the case, does it mean that the personality or the ideal salesperson is no longer what it used to be?
I think it is the new face of what it means to be successful in this market. And I think for forever, I think probably for the next decade, the way we always did things will continue to be the way that we do things, even though it’s not going to help us succeed. I think sales takes a very long time to adjust and catch up. You are likely familiar with platforms like Gong and Outreach and SalesLoft. There are still companies who don’t know, are you familiar with them?
No, actually, I’m not.
Hey, see, I’m proving points.
I’m probably 20 years behind you, not just 10.
They’re in the tech space. They’re commonplace. Everybody uses those platforms. But if you talk to people at Deloitte, if you talk to people at DuPont, if you talk to people at Exxon, and you say, how many Gong licenses do you guys have? They’re going to say, what’s a Gong? And you’re going to say, right. Gong and Outreach and Salesloft have been around for quite some time at this point. So it takes sales a long time to catch up. And I think also there is a willingness to hide behind processes that used to work because people don’t know what works today and they’re hesitant to gamble on new things and potentially lose their jobs. So we’ll talk to sales leaders who will just say, well, we’re just going to have people smile and dial 100 calls a day because what else would we do? And if that doesn’t work and if sales figures aren’t where they are, my job will be protected because I can say, well, we’re doing our part.
It must be the market. It must be product. It must be product market fit. It’s not us. This is what works. We’re not, it’s not working. But if you do something different, let’s say you do Show Me You Know Me, it doesn’t work, you’ve now gambled on a new process and somebody can say, you don’t know how to sell. See ya. So I think it takes a long time, but I think that people that are willing to take that risk to say this isn’t working, we need to do something different are the ones that are going to see that success. I think the other thing is, again, I have a very strong stance on cold calls. So I don’t know if I’m allowed to talk about it, but I’m going to talk about it. But here’s my thought. I’ve never made a cold call in my life, and I think that tends to really upset people. And I think my stance on it also tends to upset people because they’ve relied on cold calls. I think we can be better than cold calls, and here’s why. First of all, let’s just look at the data alone. Number one, takes about 11 touches to even get somebody to pick up the phone.
That’s a lot of smiling and dialing, even if you have an auto dialer, even if you Connect, you use a company like Connect. On top of that, show rates are really low, about 37% show rate for a meeting that’s booked on a cold call. So what does that mean? Does that mean the person’s time is wasted? We have to follow up, we have to get them again, we have to get them to agree, do they show up the next time? The other thing is cold calls don’t last. So even if I call you and I say, hello, here’s what I want to talk to you about, Steve, I leave you a voicemail. People are like, oh, leave a voicemail. They’re going to read your voicemail. It’s a great, it may be, but our buyers don’t live in their voicemail. I can’t tell you what the hell voicemails are in my voicemail. Where they live is in their email. And if you think instead, if you send that first email and they don’t respond and you send the second, and the third, and the fourth, and they don’t respond, consider that you are continuing to send them things where they can read, they can be educated, they can open and look at it, think about it, and be like, that’s interesting, and still never respond. But you are working in there.
If you do Show Me You Know Me, you’re earning the right to educate them. Then you can also go multichannel, connect with them on LinkedIn, engage in their content, tag them in on things. Go and look and see what comments they’re engaging in and go and engage and have a conversation there. It’s a slower burn, but what you’re going to find is when you do that, it’s less volume, you’re protecting your reputation, and you’re just doing things that others aren’t doing. I think what’s interesting too is how LinkedIn can serve as such a positive channel for this. And I’m going to give you two distinct examples. We talk about something called bubble hunting. And if you don’t know what that is, if you go on LinkedIn right now, and you go into your inbox, you’re going to see in front of people’s pictures, there’s either no bubble, a green bubble with a dot, or a green filled in bubble, all green. When that green filled in bubble is there, that means that they’re on their desktop, and it means that they’re online. So you can see that they’re literally there. It’s like AOL Instant Messenger of the old days, like you can see that they’re online.
So start to message them then. Send them a nurture. Say, I just read your podcast or just listened to your podcast. I just read your article. I love it.
That's one of the things that I did to land a meeting with a really, really big title who owns about a billion dollars in P&L for a big company that does business with us.
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On another channel, just strategically looking and sending a message that stuck out, I was able to get the CMO of a $5 billion company on our podcast. She doesn’t know me, no comment connections, no referral, no anything. And she’s probably asked to be on podcasts all day, every day. In fact, we just recorded her podcast today. Just make an effort. You’ll be surprised at how sticking out like that can help you stick out.Okay, so that’s very interesting. So back to my original question. Do you need people, salespeople with these different approaches, different personalities, than previously? Because it sounds like you need someone here who is more analytical, who can connect the dots, who can perceive what this person might be interested in. It requires some mental gymnastics to think about it, put more empathy, put yourself in the place of the person. And then you have to be a decent writer as well to do that. So does it mean that salespeople profiles are changing?
We need salespeople to have a brain, yes. I think what this is, is you really have to separate the two. There’s transactional selling, where you’re selling widgets or teleconferencing minutes or things like that, that are just really transactional. And then there’s a lot of selling that is consultative. If you have a consultative salesperson who is selling multiple products to enterprise buyer or analytical buyers who can’t build rapport, have a conversation, connect the dots, ask active listening questions, dig in deeper, solve challenges, you’re going to have a problem. So you need somebody that has that.
That's also what I love about sales is even if you don't have a lot of sales experience, if you can be resourceful, if you're intelligent, if you know how to make a connection, you can be successful.
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My most successful salesperson ever had three whole years of selling experience. Katie O’Rourke, she works at salesforce now, and she was my very first hire. And everyone was worried when she came on board, three years, you’re going to make her an enterprise sales rep and she’s had three years of experience. Yeah, I’m going to do that. And she came in and broke every record in the sun, rookie of the year, rep of the year, all that stuff killed everybody because she has a brain, a really, really sharp brain. So hire for that, right? Ask those questions. Understand what kind of seller you’re getting. We don’t need somebody that’s been trained in every methodology that exists. We have 100,000 of those sellers that exist.
Hire someone that is just smart, frankly. I will say also, this is why teachers are having so much success as they transition, unfortunately, from the education system here in the States and go into tech sales. Number one, they think who would take a chance on me? And we’re like, we will all take a chance on you. But two, think of how a teacher teaches. They instruct, they ask questions, they dig in, they challenge you, they sell whatever they’re teaching all day long.
Yeah. I mean, we are all selling all the time. Influencing people around us. And it’s just a question of what we call it, the security. That’s fascinating. So before we wrap up, I’d like to ask you kind of an off the stage kind of question. Because most of our listeners are business owners, small to medium sized business owners, business leaders, not enterprise level, typically, and you’re an entrepreneur yourself, what do you think is the most important question an entrepreneur should ask themselves?
In regards to what? Before they start a business, as they’re selling, in what area specifically?
In order to be successful as an entrepreneur. They are running a business, what is a question they should ask themselves that will help them be successful?
You said as we wrap up, because I can talk about this for another four hours, but I will try to be succinct. I think a couple of things. So one, in terms of success, I would say just a few things before you even take the leap. One, make sure that you have financial runway. It is a slow burn, even as a really tremendous seller on my side, it takes time to stand up a business. So make sure you have that financial runway. I think the other thing to understand is, what are you selling that’s different than what exists?
Will you have product market fit for what it is that you’re bringing to the market? Now, I’m a sales trainer and you might say, well, sales trainer, like there’s, again, a hundred thousand of you out there. What makes you different? We teach something different. Our methodology, our style, everything is different. It’s not for everybody. And in fact, it’s not for a lot of people, but we’re different. And if that’s what you need, you’ll find us. The other thing I would say is in terms of your salesmanship, are you able to sell? Do you know how to run a sales process? Do you know how to prospect? Do you know how to lead initial calls? Do you know how to follow through, nurture, guide that deal to close? If not, find somebody, find a great co-partner, co-founder. Make sure you have funding to be able to hire, not a VP of sales that everybody gets excited about hiring, but make sure that you have somebody that can run that sales process.
And the final thing I would ask you is who do you get your motivation from? And what I mean by this is, some of the most tremendously successful people that I know are there, I’m a total people pleaser, but they’re people pleasers who are not self-motivated. They’re motivated by pleasing and reporting to other people. So with that in mind, if you are not self-motivated, if you are not driven by your own goals, there’s a likelihood that you’re gonna take the leap and go to become an entrepreneur. And then there’s going to be no one above you to please, to report to, to work with, to say, atta girl, atta boy, I don’t have that. It’s my own self being like, great work today. So you just need to make sure that that satisfaction, that discipline and that motivation is within you, because if it’s not, I’ll be on the couch eating Cheetos before you know it.
So people who are people pleasers are unlikely to be successful entrepreneurs?
I am a people pleaser all day long, I want everybody to be happy and to be having a good time. However, if you are a people pleaser and you need to have somebody above you that is saying that is motivating you, that’s supporting you, that you’re doing a good job and is saying great work at the end of the day. It’s if it’s not enough to come from your own self, if you’re not self motivated, I think you’re going to be challenged because you’re going to miss out on the accolades you used to get at work because you’re the only one giving them to yourself and it might not be that rewarding in the end.
Yeah, no, I love this perspective. I never thought of people who are non-entrepreneurial as perhaps because they need someone’s validation and they cannot give it to themselves. It’s super interesting. We talked about your framework, which we might call the First Sales Email Impact or First Sales Impact Email, something like that.
I like it.
And I like this idea of the face of sales is changing and the new type of salesperson is more of an analytical, smart person who’s got emotional intelligence as well, who can basically influence others through thoughtful messaging. And we talked about your “Why” as well. So if people would like to learn more about your processes, and I saw on your LinkedIn page, there are a million things that you can help people with, if they would like to become better salespeople, more effective, or they want someone for the business that is going to shake some trees, where should they go and where can they learn more?
Come say hello on LinkedIn, first and foremost. I’m pretty easy to find there. And then go to samsalesconsulting.com. If you sign up for our newsletter, you’re going to find a bunch of things that we offer for free from our webinars, to our workshops, our YouTube channels, all of that. But then there’s also a spot under our playbooks where you can purchase our playbooks to go right to getting exactly what you want from us, whether it’s prospecting or how to implement Show Me You Know Me, how to write great emails, whatever it is you need is pretty much already there.
Yeah, I love it that you have playbooks that you also share with people so that they can just pick it up and incorporate it in their own systems. Fantastic. So, Sam McKenna, founder of #samsales Consulting and #samsales and the ShowMeYouKnowMe #SMYKM.
You got it.
Yeah, that’s a big thing trending on LinkedIn, so check her out. And if you enjoyed this show, then please follow us on LinkedIn and give us a review on Apple Podcast, on YouTube, and come back because twice a week, we are posting new shows on all these platforms. So thanks for coming, Sam, and thanks for listening.
Thank you, Steve.
Important Links:* Sam’s LinkedIn * #samsales Consulting * Relevant tools: Mindshare Terms™ and Playbook Manager™
https://youtu.be/9KhyJgt2micLaszlo Balassy, CEO of ActiveGraf, is driven by a mission to help businesses become scenario smart, enabling faster, smarter decisions through real-time analytics and democratized data visualization.
We discuss the ActiveGraf Framework, a tool designed to align strategic objectives, identify key drivers, and enable dynamic, interactive models to accelerate decision-making and reduce sales cycles. Laszlo shares impactful use cases, such as shortening a global software firm’s sales cycle by 50% and enhancing food safety analytics for a fast food chain. He also highlights ActiveGraf’s future, including the integration of AI to simplify predictive and prescriptive analytics, making these tools more accessible to businesses of all sizes. He emphasizes the transformative potential of democratized analytics to help organizations optimize operations, demonstrate value, and achieve sustainable growth.
—Become Scenario Smart with Laszlo BalassyGood day, dear listeners. Steve Preda here with the Management Blueprint podcast. And my guest today is Laszlo Balassy, the CEO of ActiveGraf, a software company on a quest to democratize analytics, accelerate decisions, and reduce expense. So ActiveGraf allows visually modify Excel-based data models in PowerPoint without involving teams of analysts and analytics, I guess. Laszlo, welcome to the show.
Thank you, it’s a pleasure to be here, and especially given our past of having known each other in our previous lives, it’s especially a pleasure to be here with you today.
Yes, but you’re not here because we have connections from previously, you’re here because you have a great business and you have an exciting story to tell to our listeners. So let’s start. I like to start this show these days. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it in your business?
Yeah, so my “Why” is to leverage the power of analytics for the betterment of humanity. It sounds very grandiose, but in effect, it’s not. It really started with simple ideas of if we could calculate things live in a situation, we could make much better and faster decisions. Today, my business is mostly, our business at ActiveGraf is really mostly shortening sales cycles for people that are making technical sales and things like that and using analytics to do that client work. But one example of using analytics for the betterment of humanity and making better decisions is a use case we made called the HR use case.
Back when I was at Citi, whenever there was a market downturn, they basically almost arbitrarily said, this half of the room, okay, you go home. And that’s it. And why was that? The reason was that board members have a fiduciary responsibility. And when they’re cutting costs, nobody could ever blame them. But in six months time, when the markets turned, they’d be trying to hire back the exact same people or very similar people, maybe not the exact same people. And I thought, God, there’s gotta be a better way. And we developed this use case called the HR during a recession use case. And the clear thing is that if you look at keeping people who seem to be excess staff, it actually comes out as a calculation to be better to keep them even for 9 months, 12 months, 18 months than it is to get rid of them, pay severance and all of that. And I feel that if more people had access to analytics and calculations like this, the world would just be a better place.
We'd make better and faster decisions. So that's the kind of my “Why” is really to democratize that and make it easy for anybody to use even more sophisticated calculations.
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Yeah, that’s cool. So you had this experience, I think you explained in our pre-interview that when you’re an investment banker, you would have loved to actually be able to demonstrate the sensitivity analysis, what the scenario analysis that you were talking about, and the team had to go back to the office to develop it in real-time, and you wanted to create that. So, let’s talk about your framework, because you essentially created the framework around this, and we might call it the ActiveGraf framework. So what does it look like? How do you create that real-time simulation of scenarios and how do you help people do that themselves?
So, what we do is, first, we try to align ourselves with what are the strategic objectives? That’s the very first point. And that’s very many people have talked about that in terms of growth advisors, such as yourself and others that having a clear vision is very important. And that’s kind of the same thing in the ActiveGraf framework, where you say, what is your desired strategy? What are you trying to get to? So what is that clear vision of the future? And that’s really step one. And then step two of the ActiveGraf framework is to say, let’s look at what are the first principles type of drivers that result in going from where we are today to the vision. So if we interpolate between where we are today in the vision, what are the things that are going to drive that? And once you have that, you have the basis for a framework and you can build a model around it. And it doesn’t have to be a financial model. It can be any kind of model.
We have some very exciting examples that maybe we can talk about later. And you have those drivers and those drivers become essentially what mathematicians and analysts call the explanatory variables. And then what you do is you simulate then the downstream impacts, not just how you get to your vision, but with ActiveGraf and the ease of doing sensitivity analysis and changing those drivers to see what the outcome would be, you really get a sense of the business proposition, the value of the product that you’re considering buying, whatever it is, because the ease of sensitivity analysis by just clicking and dragging graphs right within the meeting gives you a much better view, not only of your KPIs and what you’re trying to get to, but any derivative impacts and downstream impacts that you can have. For instance, specific PNL, HR, capital allocation things, those can be calculated as a derivative also of any of the initial impacts that you’re looking at.
That’s very interesting. So would you share one or two use cases of maybe an actual client that you helped and what they could accomplish with this approach?
Absolutely. So we help a global software firm shorten their time to value proposition by over 50 percent. And that was one of our favorite use cases and what put us on the road to this kind of sales enablement and sales cycle reduction path that we’re on now. Essentially, large software firms and this is a very large global software firm that has a lot of banking software and their banking services and software that they propose has parameters for its calculation of value that are pages and pages of Excel and their problem, their pain point, was, look, we have to ask a detailed survey of our prospective clients just to be able to get into the room.
How do we solve that problem? And with ActiveGraf, it’s easy and they did where you can take approximations of what you believe to be those parameters of all of those parameters that drive their value proposition as a salesperson. You can take all those parameters and give approximations to it and right within the meeting, instead of having to have first a discovery meeting where everybody goes through and ticks the box, and yes, this is the level. You can just have your value proposition meeting and fine-tune those parameters just by clicking and dragging charts as you’re talking. And you know something magical happens when you’re doing that. And I’ve witnessed this directly that when you involve your target audiences, your prospects thoughts in your own presentation, and they see your presentation come alive in your value prop, that’s magic. Because now you’re working together at the same aim, getting to the same goal. Even the most reluctant prospect, when you ask them what their perspective is on a certain assumption.
Let’s say interest rates or let’s say we just did a use case with the comparison of EVs to gas-powered cars. You say, well, what’s the average premium of electric cars over equivalent model gas cars and let’s dial that in together. Once you ask somebody their opinion on something and they see it reflected in influencing your presentation, it becomes a totally different dynamic. And getting back to the global software firm, they were able to use ActiveGraf to fine-tune those presentations and by the end, in one meeting rather than three meetings, and instead of six weeks, under one week, to get by the end of that meeting already a very clearly, very detailed articulated value prop for, I think it’s 7 cost-level benefits and 7 revenue-level benefits were articulated precisely in the software stack that they were proposing in the services around it. So that’s one cool example.
Basically, the way I imagine it, you had all these charts presented or projected on PowerPoint, and then they went in with their mouse and they said, okay, if interest rates go up, then maybe our profit is gonna go down. Or if there’s a premium of the EV electric vehicle price, let’s say drops by 10%, what it’s gonna do with the total sales.
Exactly.
That’s fascinating. They basically could run the scenario that they believed in, and they could simulate it, and they could look at it. This is how we see the world. Can they also use that to inject the impact of your service, the service of the ActiveGraf software?
Yes. Interestingly, we have ROI calculators for the use of ActiveGraf for specific situations as well. So we use, it’s a little bit of a recursive thing. We’re using ActiveGraf to demonstrate the value of ActiveGraf. And there’s a credibility gap. You know this very well. You have a very robust framework for your growth strategies and so on. There’s a credibility gap when you go with a forecast or a presumption. Because whatever you write down on paper, whether it’s a budget for next year or a forecast or talking to a client prospect. You know that what you’re writing down is going to be wrong, right?
You know that that number is not going to be the number. And you can instantaneously close that credibility gap and basically overcome the objections of doubters by aligning the numbers exactly to what they want to see. And so that’s the thing. And now we can actually do it with Python as well. So now we can plug into main platform ERP systems and everything through Python. And it’s not just Excel. So, we recently did a case with a global analytics firm used ActiveGraf with one of the largest and fastest growing fast food companies in the United States. They built a predictive model on the microbial load to get away as far as we can from finance and consulting and all that kind of stuff. The microbial load is essentially the levels of harmful bacteria in certain raw materials and they built a model for certain raw materials that they used over 7 stages to get to the final consumer when they eat the sandwiches or the food or the salads. And they built this predictive model in Python within two hours, ActiveGraf was integrated on top of it.
And within a day, the dashboard that brought the model alive was built within one day, whereas it would have taken Power BI authoring over a week to do. And Power BI can’t automatically recalculate. So the fast food company was very impressed with that and used it in their food safety board to demonstrate various scenarios. If we get it from this supplier, if we have this refrigeration, that kind of station, washing, cost contamination, and so on, are we still safe with our food? It’s got a lot of permutations.
That’s very interesting. As you are developing this software, ActiveGraf, what is the future that you see? So what is this going to enable? And maybe is there going to be an AI application to it as well that will also enhance it? What is your vision?
Yes, absolutely. So some of my friends were calling me concerned, God, with this predictive AI and everything, doesn’t that take away your value proposition? And the irony is it boosts our value proposition because just think about large language models. You have to write a prompt or say a prompt for it to react. Now, if you’ve already got your model, before you say what you want, you could have clicked and dragged that thing on your screen if you can control it from a graph, from an active graph. And so AI is gonna be a big boost for us because more and more people will have driver-based models generated by AI that they can easily integrate active graphs on top of and get much more use out of them and get the use out of it that’s much more democratized just by clicking and dragging. So if I say, when I write prompts into Copilot, for instance, or ChatGPT, that takes me a while to type it in.
If I wanted to say, hey, change the level of oil this year to this level, next year to that level, and so on and so on. Before you say it, you could just click and drag it. So that part of AI and the AI revolution is a very big benefit to ActiveGraf. What we’re also planning with ActiveGraf is where you have your driver-based model, whether it’s Excel or Python or anything like that, and you’ll be able to drag it onto ActiveGraf and it will build the live board for you. So that’s the next version we’re working on. So you don’t even have to ever tag the data and then have it come over. It will find the data frames that you need, the drivers that are there, and it’ll put it onto a starting dashboard yourself and then you can adjust it and fine-tune it as you want. So that’s going to be a kind of AI application of how our development path is going, and AI is a concept I answered before. It’s going to help us a lot by allowing anybody to generate a driver-based model and then quickly layer on our graphs.
So maybe it’s a bit of a tangent, but I’m really curious about this concept of AI generating a driver-based model. So does it mean that, let’s say if I’m an investment banker and I just give some prompts to my ChatGPT or whichever AI, Gemini or some other Copilot and tell them that, hey, I’ve got this company, it’s 10 million revenue, this is the EBITDA margin and these are the main markets and I want it to grow at the rate of inflation plus 2%, but I’m just making it. And these are the competitors and this is the macro outlook that it will be able to create a financial model for me?
Yeah, we’re not there yet, but there are already things that allow you to do descriptive analytics like that. Forecast analytics, I haven’t yet seen anything do anything more complex, but certainly Python models and so on, you can already generate through prompts. It’ll be a couple of years before it gets to the level of as smoothly as you described it. That’s still a couple of years away. But that is the direction where models themselves and especially descriptive analytics already know.
So that's one of the key things is when I'm talking about analytics in the context of ActiveGraf, I'm talking about predictive and prescriptive analytics.
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Whereas, all of the traditional tools are really good, like Power BI, the stuff that’s been around 15, 20 years, Power BI, Tableau, Click, all of that stuff, looks at models looking back and says, what can you learn from the past? We’re not in that space. They can’t do what we do. We don’t want to do what they do. We are looking at forecasts in the future and AI is already at the stage where you can give it prompts and give it data and some of them even create the dashboards on the descriptive piece. I’ve yet to see anything that can do kind of very, very robust forecast, but we’ll get there.
That’s really great. So, what are the industries that can most benefit from what you offer, this ActiveGraf or some of your value analytics tool?
Well, first, it’s more of a discipline. It’s sales. Anybody who’s in technical value sales. So, something that is a presentation to prospects of any kind of products or services that have a value proposition that is a bit more complex. In other words, it’s not I have widgets, they have widgets, I’m giving it to you for 10% less. If it’s anything more than that, our methodology is better because the maintenance costs are lower and we do the following, anything that has two or three more complex, well, that doesn’t even have to be that complex variables. That is really where we’re honing in. There are specific industries where that’s relevant. So it could be software sales and technology is definitely one.
Technical automotive parts, that kind of thing, sales, warehouse and other automation. Those are the areas in which value selling is an important discipline because the value propositions to articulate the ROI is a best practice, but is not as straightforward as in the case I told you about with the global software company. So that’s really where we feel that’s where the most traction is. We also have two other areas. I mentioned the predictive Python model that we layered very quickly and was very useful to the fast food company. That’s another ideal customer profile for us, which is analytics professionals that are delivering predictive models can do so in ActiveGraf 8-9 times faster and actually use the model to discuss with their client rather than static views, which is what you get in Tableau or Power BI or other visualization tools. And so that’s another ICP. And the third one is where we started actually, which is the investment banking. We are looking more at small and medium sized firms because they have a bias for action much more so than the large firms. And there are much more early adopters, the smaller and medium-sized firms and the large firms are. And so, we’re looking at that segment of any kind of consultants and advisors that present in order to get work in terms of their value proposition, but also in delivering their work product.
Imagine if you could do an M&A transaction, for instance, and you’re on the buy side of an M&A transaction, you’re trying to figure out what the cost synergies are optimally for you to be able to pay the price that they’re asking. With ActiveGraf, it’s a very, very simple proposition. So those are the kind of three ideal customer profiles that we’re dealing with, but by far the main one is the sales enablement and just drastically cutting sales cycles.
Yeah, you help them demonstrate the impact of that product to their business, and they can say yes much easier. That makes sense. So, I’d like to switch gears here a little bit and I’d like to ask you what it’s like to be an entrepreneur because you’ve worked for Citibank for a long time and you had the top management positions there and banking and investment banking and capital markets and now you’re running your own company. So what do you think is the most important question that an entrepreneur has to ask themselves?
The most important one is, are you really in love with the idea and the value proposition of your idea? If you’re not really in love with it, there’s no way you can go through all the pain, the heartache, the trials, the iterations, the victories and the lows. So that kind of volatility of emotional experience, shifting hats from being salesperson to being financial controller. You have to wear a million hats when you’re starting a startup.
So if you're not really in love with the idea, and I don't mean in love in an emotional way, but you really believe strongly that the value of what you're doing is real and you've seen feedback from people that you trust that it really has…
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Without that, it takes an extreme amount of luck to make it if you don’t have that conviction. I think that’s the key thing.That’s great. I would say, I mean, you say it’s not necessarily emotional love. I would argue that possibly there is a strong emotional element to it as well, because it really is the emotion that helps you get through those laws when you are really emotionally committed to it and you believe it instinctively that it’s worse, even when, logically, it doesn’t make sense. But if you feel in your fibers that it is going to have to work because it really solves a problem, I think that’s huge. It’s huge for an entrepreneur to feel that. That’s awesome. So very good, very interesting. So, Laszlo, if people would like to learn more about ActiveGraf, would like to connect with you to ask their own questions, where should they go and how can they get in touch?
They can ping me on LinkedIn, follow us on LinkedIn or go to our website, activegraf.com, and they can learn more there. And you didn’t ask one question that I thought you were gonna ask, which I think is really exciting is, what excites you most?
Okay.
Do you have a second?
Yeah, fire away.
So I would say, one, I already talked about the excitement of the shortening a sales cycle by being interactive in real time. The other thing is that near and dear to my heart, and I was involved in many, many organizations that helped us in the past, and now we’re doing analytics on childcare and child services. One of the states in the United States has entrusted us to do their analytics related to that. One of the exciting applications of ActiveGraf is if we change this about the compensation package, for instance, of childcare workers, how many more children will get adequate childcare? Because they’ll stay in their positions and things like that. It’s a very, very exciting kind of social element to really democratizing analytics. And as I said, my “Why” is leveraging analytics for the betterment of mankind. I think that’s really exciting stuff where you can use quant to do a very human thing and solve a human problem. But anyway, I just thought I’d get-
Yeah, it’s all the problems we solve, and it’s all about getting results for people faster and easier and ActiveGraf is really at the forefront of this idea, so I love it. So Laszlo Balaszy, the CEO of ActiveGraf, a software company that’s revolutionizing how you simulate scenarios with your product and for your sales and can be applied in different areas. Thanks for coming and sharing your product and your experience and your personal quest about this. And if you enjoyed this conversation, then tune in Monday and Friday. We come out with new episodes of the Management Blueprint, and please follow us on YouTube and on Apple Podcast and give us a review, an honest review. That’d be great. That helps us to push the podcast out. So thanks for coming.
Thank you very much for the opportunity. Great to see you again.
Important Links:* Laszlo’s LinkedIn * ActiveGraf * Relevant tools: Automation Activator™, Playbook Mapping Chart™, and Vision & Strategy Map™
https://youtu.be/RbUroiKBLSsDavid Snider, Founder and CEO of Harness Wealth, is driven by a mission to help clients build financial confidence while making rapid decisions with clarity through modernized, tailored advisory solutions.
We learn about David’s journey from aspiring politician to private equity professional, and ultimately to entrepreneur. He explains the RAPID Framework—Recommend, Agree, Perform, Input, and Decide—a decision-making process he applies to foster collaboration and clarity within his team. He shares his insights on creating scalable solutions for complex financial and tax challenges, emphasizing the importance of empowering clients with tailored tools and resources. He also highlights the value of peer advisory groups and continuous learning to navigate leadership challenges effectively.
—David Snider on Making RAPID decisionsWelcome to the Management Blueprint Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Krista, the Vistage Chair, an Adjunct Professor, and someone who just really believes in leaders. My guest today is David Snider, the founder and CEO at Harness Wealth, with a mission to help clients build confidence in the path to their best financial futures. David, welcome.
Thank you.
We’re going to dig in and we’re going to start on the inside in terms of you and your leadership. What is your personal “Why” and what are you doing to manifest it?
Well, first, thank you for having me. I would say that there are some fellow founders that I know where they really couldn’t work for anyone else. Like it is in their ethos to do their own thing. And I’ve never totally been that way. I think early on I’ve done things that in retrospect were entrepreneurial, but they’ve generally come from an awareness of there’s something that could be better. And if I can’t find the solution for it, like why not just go out and build it myself? And so that was the catalyst for writing a business book that I started during college because I was looking for the resource, couldn’t find it and decided to be a great Trojan horse to have conversation with people that I thought I might actually want to work with, or work for, I should say.
I think similarly here, where after the great entrepreneurial experience of helping to build Compass from pre-revenue to hundreds of millions, was open to jumping into another operating executive role. But as I was sort of thinking about the ecosystem, there’s sort of the confluence of two things. Number one, despite having been a CFO and investor, every 6 months I’d find things that I had missed or screwed up and that was no more poignantly and painfully illustrated than turning to some Harvard Business School professors for what amounted to, they didn’t consider at the time to be tax advice and getting the answer, which maybe philosophically could have been right, but mechanically ended up being a seven-figure mistake for me and some others.
And so, the combination of those pieces and sort of the theme that we had stumbled into a compass of the value and creating technology to help advisors and spaces that clients are really excited to get great advice and be better, be modernized, et cetera, was on that I got excited about. And so, harnesses meeting, hopefully, the need that I found around some of the nuances of tax and financial advisory and been very glad that it seems to have been helpful to thousands of others now.
Yes, that evidence is by the fact that there are thousands using it. So you brought up writing a book when you were 20. Why don’t you share that title with us and how that came about?
Sure. So the book is called Moneymakers: Inside the New World of Finance and Business. And the catalyst was when I was much younger. And sorry if I’m jumping ahead to a question you often ask. In my teens, I really thought that I wanted to work on Capitol Hill, sort of had that goal of being an elected member of Congress potentially. And I was very fortunate to get an internship and get to see things in real life and love the experience, riding in that underground Senate tram car, from the office buildings to the Capitol with members of Congress, someone like me, so it leaves you starstruck. But that being said, there was a lot more politics than policy. And I think I sort of left feeling like, gosh, you got to get really lucky to enter that ecosystem and end up in a place of influence as quickly as you want to without just this perfect alignment of which party is in power.
Does the member of Congress you work for behave appropriately? Do you get picked at the right time? Does someone retire, et cetera? And so shifted towards wanting to work in business, but not really knowing what that could or should be. And so I used some professors at Duke, some family friends, some cold outreach to get conversations with a bunch of people in different areas, private equity, venture capital, running big businesses, consulting. And at the end of it, I didn’t actually still know exactly what I wanted to do, but I felt dramatically better informed and had a ton of peers. This is again, while I’m in college that I think had similar indecisiveness or lack of even context on how to think about what a career in business might look like. And so I decided, hey, like maybe I can actually make a book out of this if I can get really good interviews.
And the key to that, I think, very much like entrepreneurial business, is finding points of validation.
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So I happened to sit next to David Rubenstein, the Carlyle founder, at a lunch of Duke trustees that I was invited to parlayed that into getting his card, he agree to do an interview, did it the next week, no interview. I did if the book was ever that seamless in scheduling and meeting and everything else, but all of a sudden, he did it, Jamie Dimon had done it, spoke to John Mack, a bunch of others. And so, I then could use the credentials of the people that had opted in early on to convince others. And there ended up being enough there to get McMillan to publish it.
Okay, so your college experience is a little different than most, I think. Not many of us have a chance to sit down and talk to David Rubenstein. It’s really impressive. Something else that you said that just called to me on a personal level is I watched House of Cards, West Wing, Madam Secretary, because I, too, was interested in governance and politics, which, of course, they go hand in hand. But having watched all those things, I’m glad I made the decision not to go that direction.
I mean, I still harbor aspirations of finding a role to have positively influenced policy, but I figured there were some other things I wanted to get done first before taking a shot at that.
I think you’re on a great trajectory. Let’s talk about, I’d like you to speak just for a little bit to any other young people, teenagers that are out there that are interested in entrepreneurship. You could go back or go out and talk to a 13, 14, 15-year-old. What advice would you give them?
It’s interesting. I’m not that old, but the years are ratcheting up. There were very few people that went directly into traditional entrepreneurship in the early, mid 2000s. I think there are many more opportunities for students, whether it’s on the sales and marketing side, whether it’s on the engineering side, et cetera, or even to be a founder, you can be wildly successful.
Obviously, some of the greatest entrepreneurs in the US have been college dropouts. But I think statistically, and certainly from a learning experience, I am dramatically better as an operator having been through a couple of years at Bain & Company, having been at a large private equity investment firm, et cetera. And so, I think it’s important, and many people do, this is not novel advice, but understand how long an arc most careers are. And if you have some phenomenal idea and you happen to be able to code it and run with it, like, go for that. There are more resources in undergrad and graduate schools, et cetera. Feel to make that leap immediately.
But I think without either that perfect opportunity or that amazing idea that you believe you that we obviously have to pursue, there is far more structured learning at organizations that have had the time and the resources to develop training, mentorship as part of their model, that I think you can definitely learn other ways, but it’s not always gonna be clear whether you’re picking up good habits or bad habits in startups. Even the best performing ones have to be quirky and cut corners to grow quickly without unlimited resources, et cetera. So number one, I think, don’t feel like you have to be in a rush if you want to do entrepreneurship, to do it immediately, because I think there are a lot more folks like me out there that have taken a path where you built some skills and that allowed you to both evaluate opportunities more effectively, I think, and to have more just like raw skills and communicating, selling, et cetera.
So I would say that probably number one. And then I think two, I’m fortunate now to have the opportunity to work with people that are in their mid-20s, mid-30s, mid-40s, et cetera, especially for people that are early on. You get really to a distinguishing place in being able to execute on what I think have traditionally been the basics, like that bunch of the stuff that’s in sort of the Dale Carnegie, how to influence people, et cetera, type of thing, like show up on time or early, be responsive, think about how what you’re doing can create leverage for the person that you’re reporting to, respond to an email immediately and just say, received, working on it, I’ll get back to you in an hour, a day, a week, whatever it may be to build that confidence that when someone asks something of you, you’re going to deliver against it. I think that younger, talented individuals, like, have never been smarter or more capable, but I think they on average also sometimes, especially if they didn’t have that professional service experience early on, can miss things that hinder their ability to be as successful, assuming that success is predicated upon working with people that have been in the workforce for a couple of decades and value stuff that traditionally has been really beneficial in business and upward mobility.
I love it. I love that you’re reinforcing that there’s continued leadership development within organizations. And for young people looking for companies to go to, look for those who are going to lift them up and nurture their path. And then you also underscore the importance of that mentorship and even stretching yourself. Doing what we do well all the time, we just stop growing. So pushing yourself to go on. So thank you. Kind of along those lines, talking about processes, you shared with me that you follow a decision-making framework with the acronym RAPID, which was you found in Matt Mochary’s The Great CEO Within, the book. So tell us about RAPID.
So I think it hits on a few different components. So RAPID stands for Recommend, Agree, Perform, Input, and Decide. And it’s meant to encapsulate a few things. Number one, the person pushing for a decision can but doesn’t have to be the decision maker. The CEO can but doesn’t have to be the decision maker. But it’s also really valuable to ensure that you’ve got the right people that ought to be involved in a decision, aware of it, providing input, et cetera, to create the best outcome.
So the R, recommend, is someone who’s actually indicating from the team, hey, we need to make a call on this, going to a new market, making an exception on a deal for a new customer, et cetera. And they ideally are not just recommending we make a decision, but have a proposed solution of what they think the business, the team, et cetera, should do. The agree side are those that should be like brought in and agree generally. And that can be something as structural as like legal making sure that it’s okay, or compliance if you’re a business like ours that has some regulation around it, etc. The P is perform.
Like, who’s actually going to get stuff done based upon what you choose to do as a path. I, input, so those that maybe not in the agree camp from like a required standpoint, not in the perform camp of doing the work, but they have a valuable view because they’re going to be related to the decision or they have another senior leader, et cetera, and then decide. And this is definitely not something that I do perfectly, but there is a desire in this framework that if it is not an irreversible decision, it ought to be one that the CEO does not make, because it allows the organization to be more nimble, enables people to be empowered.
We've got a company value around trying to make people empowered to make and be accountable for the decisions, so it aligns with that.
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If it’s something that’s irreversible, we’re going to invest a huge amount of money to go into a new market, and that money is going to get invested if you make that decision, it may be necessary for the CEO to win and do that. But I think that if you don’t get all of the pieces perfectly right in the RAPID framework, this concept of come to the solution, include people that recognize that not all voices providing input have or have to have the same weight, blocking ability, et cetera, and try to be as clear as possible as to who’s going to make the decision can be quite valuable.
Absolutely. And what I love about this is how it starts with the recommend piece, where you’re identifying who first proposed it, the issue, and the solution. Because often over time, the person that brought it forward gets lost in the process. So the idea person, and may have not been involved, they may not be able to influence or have the input or do whatever, but they brought the idea forward. And employees want to be seen, heard, and valued. So recognizing the person who’s recommending it at the top, to me, that really called to me. And I don’t know, have you ever had a situation where your idea got lost in a process?
Probably. I’m good at blocking stuff out. I think I’ve been fortunate now between Compass and Harness to generally be in the room. There are a lot of instances where what I thought ought to happen didn’t happen. In some instances, for good reason, I came with one approach and was convinced by others in that discussion to go a different approach. In my prior company, I had a recommendation. The CEO chose a different path. I think it’s also important to, as much as possible, live by sort of an agree and commit framework that even regardless of who you are in that RAPID framework, if you’re able to provide a view, hopefully it’s heard, digested, and decision is made to get on board and seek to whatever the implications may be, enable that decision, the company, et cetera, to have the best outcome and benefit from it, even if you didn’t disagree. So agreeing, commit, disagreeing, commit is important.
It’s a sign for a leader when you come with an idea and your employees convince you to do something else, it’s a sign you’ve hired a good team, that you’ve got some bench. So that’s great. In addition to Mochary’s The Great CEO Within, are there any other authors that you follow? Someone when an article or a book or a podcast drops, you put that on your list of things to hear or read?
It’s not continuous, but I’ll say of the business books I’ve read, the one that stuck with me the most is Ben Horowitz’s The Hard Thing About Hard Things, in that it just more so than many other great books I’ve read, you can empathize and sort of feel comfort at the same time as someone in the trenches with how challenging it can be, how close a business can come to running out of cash or running into an unsolvable competitor or structural supplier issue, et cetera, and still end up having a great outcome.
Not always, but I think just understanding that complexity, challenges, et cetera is super valuable. I would say I kind of move in between tax industry podcasts because I want to have a pulse on sort of what is happening in the space that we are building and playing and hoping to innovate around, in addition to some general interest stuff and depending on my headspace, that may be acquired for a multi-hour journey of how a business was built, or it could be smart lists for sort of fairly mindless but entertaining, time-killing if you’re on a long drive or on a trip, et cetera.
But I think the more input you can get, the better. I would say that a lot of my personal reading is either history or biography.
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I’m reading a biography right now of Henry Kissinger that Walter Isaacson read, that Elon Musk biography was sort of curious to step back further onto that similar, very rigorous approach to understanding a complicated person who’s both admired and also not so highly viewed by others and what that looks like and how decisions get made, et cetera. So ,the volume of data points, I think is helpful in not being too focused on one, but I think the Matt Mochary book and some of the writings he’s done around is helpful as like a framework from a business operator standpoint, certainly.
Who knows? A little while down the timeline, we may be reading a biography about David Snider and changing the financial futures for people. Let’s look at your employees. If I were to ask them to describe your management or leadership style, how do you think they would respond to me?
You never know for sure, but certainly, what I’d hope, and this was the case when I was COO, CFO before this, and then in this role is that I’m a source of calm and confidence. I definitely perceive the metaphor to be that in the role that I had before and in this one for people not to see how furiously the feet under the water may be churning to keep the ship moving, whether that’s for employees, for clients, whatever the case may be. The hope is that it feels predictable. And I think that’s also really important. And I think most people in the company would say there are not a lot of decisions that get made that feel totally out of the blue or incongruently with past conversations or past approaches that we had.
Now we’ve had significant evolution in the way that we go to market. We started as a pure play marketplace. We’re now a vertical SaaS business with that marketplace. We’ve tried a lot of new things, et cetera. So it doesn’t have to be incongruent with evolving the business, but I think I’ve seen other leaders where it’s like you’re on a sailboat and they only know how to tack versus being on a motorboat and being able to course correct or give people a little more warning before the boom comes swinging around. And they’re doing a lot of this to get from point to point in a way that I think is challenging for people to adjust to. So I try as best I can to, especially for my direct reports and also for all of our weekly all-team meetings that I tend to talk a lot in, ensure that I’m giving people enough information that they have the context on what we’re doing, what’s gone well, what is underperformed and how we’re attacking that.
We try to share board materials with the team after the fact to give a sense of how we’re doing, sharing our monthly KPIs that we use on the leadership team and in our board, we do semi-annual employee feedback surveys and try to ask the same questions so you can see the trajectory of questions and answers by team over time, et cetera, to see, hey, are people feeling better today than they were 6 months ago or worse across different dimensions of growth opportunities, buying on the mission, likelihood to recommend Harness as a place to work for peers, et cetera. So, yeah, the more consistency in context, I think the better.
As someone who’s had an opportunity to talk to you twice now, not as an employee, but someone as a colleague in a collegial sense, I can say that in addition to being calm and confident, sharing information, being open, I find you to be very clear and very, very responsive. So I thank you for that. So that’s how you show up for me. And once again, we’re going to change directions just a little bit. What are you working on right now that excites you the most?
Well, I would say in general, the highs are much higher and the lows are much lower when you’re running your own business, et cetera. And I think that driver of those highs occasionally is a win, signing a client you’ve worked on for a long time or something like that. But it’s most, for me, euphoric when you feel like there’s some insight that gets unlocked from a conversation or something else, a different application of the business, a potential partner, something else, even more so than when it actually happens, which hopefully it does, some of the time isn’t having that.
And I think that we’ve been very positively surprised in the last few months at the excitement of a lot of financial advisors and other kind of large-scale players in the ecosystem that we at Harness exist and are actually providing this institutional quality tax offering in sort of the upper middle market where there’s all of a sudden national scale, very contemporary, best-in-breed technology solutions, but those are being powered by very talented, experienced tax advisors. And so I think that was one of those where I didn’t really think about it. It kind of came out of a few organic conversations with some venture and corp dev teams at big organizations. But it’s been a valuable new vector for the business and its growth. And one that I get excited about exploring because it allows us to amplify the scale of who we can serve if we’re not just bringing people through the content or other direct activities, but actually doing so by having one, the trust of really large, incredibly well-respected institutions that are comfortable partnering with us to help serve their clients.
Great. Thank you so much. What have I not asked you about either yourself or Harness Wellness that I should have? What do we need to know?
Well, for me, and I think the nature of what one of your many roles is sort of speaks to it with Vistage, which is, as I understand it, not a part of it, but a network of executives being able to connect and discuss key issues and sort of have shared learnings, et cetera. To me, the most valuable thing from a learning perspective, in addition to reading extensively and other stuff as an executive, whether it’s CEO or whether it’s a business owner, et cetera, is having opportunities either with the same group of similarly placed leaders or with a evolving and diverse set in different contexts to have discussions and understand how other folks are tackling your same problems. And so, I’ve had a ton of value attending the Dialogue Conference, which is one that attracts people from a bunch of different groups.
I’ve been fortunate early on through family to get invited to a conference called Renaissance Weekend, which also brings together public policy leaders and business leaders and others together. Vistage, EO, there are a lot of others that do something similar, but I think that is tremendously valuable both for mental health, and having people to talk about, it’s challenging internally in some cases to express all the things that are weighing on you or weighing you down. And so that’s been very, very beneficial for me. And certainly that I encourage other earlier stage founders to figure out how to capture because it’s challenging, especially if you don’t have a lot of people in the business that you think of as sort of day in, day out co-founders or others to provide that resource to.
I think as it relates to Harness Wealth, what’s exciting is like, it’s as much a learning opportunity for me as it is for our clients. And I think we set out to create the most dynamic platform for business owners and equity holders to be able to solve their key financial and tax issues in the ways that they believe they need to. So it’s not one-size-fits-all. For some people, it’s a place to get a South Dakota trust done to create some Section 1202 QSBS optimization. For others, it’s about a great holistic wealth manager. For many, it’s about business or tax services that can feel overwhelming and antiquated, and us hopefully helping that to feel much more contemporary, consultative, and value-add for people.
So when those issues pop up, word of mouth is obviously wonderful if you have peers that have great resources, but when those things emerge and you’re looking for another resource, we hope that we can also be part of that conversation, dialogue for business owners and equity holders in a variety of different profiles that are looking for a labor of love resource. We’ve really curated people that we are confident. I remember executive team typically works with one or multiple advisors ourselves. We sort of dog food it as they say in the product world to help navigate any complex issues.
Fantastic. And I did not ask you to discuss peer advisories. I appreciate you doing that. Peer advisory groups. We do find that leaders, there’s a lot of isolationism. Who do you talk to? If you’re having issues in your company or in your industry, you don’t want to upset the next people in line. You go into a room of people that are in similar or not similar industries, depending on the type of peer advisory group, and you have an opportunity to just bounce ideas in a safe space. And so peer advisory groups are something that I recommend for leaders as well. We are coming down to the end of our time. How should anyone find out more about your company or more about you? How can we get in touch with you?
Sure. So our website is harnesswealth.com. It’s got everything there across financial advisory, tax, trust, and estate. And on the off chance, we’ve got tax advisors or financial advisors listening, there’s also sections around them because we’re very collaborative in the ecosystem and working with great professionals that deliver advice. For me personally, I’m probably most active on LinkedIn. I do see and respond to everything that comes through and some degree on Twitter and other places, David Snider HW, but I would say LinkedIn is definitely the most active channel for stuff. But it’s been a pleasure to speak with you.
Thank you so much, David, for your time. I know how precious it is. Thank you very much.
Thanks, Krista.
Important Links:* David’s LinkedIn * Harness Wealth * Moneymakers: Inside the New World of Finance and Business by David Snider * Krista Crawford’s LinkedIn * Relevant tools: Mentor Meeting Model™ and Scoreboard Sketcher™
https://youtu.be/T-aI91UGCWwNick Jain, CEO of IdeaScale, is driven by a mission to help organizations innovate to success by democratizing innovation, enabling them to crowdsource and rank ideas from their entire ecosystem.
We learn about Nick’s journey from growing up in India and building a career in private equity to leading IdeaScale, the largest innovation-focused software company globally. He explains the ICE Framework—Innovate, Collaborate, and Execute—a philosophy and process that encourages continuous improvement, teamwork, and actionable results. He highlights how IdeaScale helps organizations like Pfizer and the U.S. federal government overcome constraints and systematically tap into collective intelligence for impactful innovation. He also shares the company’s commitment to adaptability and hard work, providing responsive, high-touch solutions for customers.
—Innovate to Success with Nick JainWelcome everyone to the Management Blueprint Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Krista Crawford. My guest today is Nick Jain, CEO of IdeaScale, a leading innovation operating system designed as a platform for crowdsourcing ideas. Nick, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me, Krista. I’m excited to be here.
I am excited, too. And just for our listeners, we have had a short pre-interview, so we’re going to be covering some things that we’ve already talked about, and you’re also going to be adding some new information. We will dig into IdeaScale shortly. However, to begin, you and I had that pre-interview where you described your leadership journey. I am sure others would benefit from your story. Please share what you will.
Sure. So the quick summary of my background is I initially grew up in India, raised by a single grandmother to live up to the age of five, then did all my childhood education, small public high school in Canada, came to the U.S. for college, studied math and physics, spent the first 10 years of my career on Wall Street as a professional investor doing private equity deals and hedge fund deals. Went to business school at Harvard. And then for the past five or six years, I have either run or co-run companies in a bunch of different industries, ranging from a really big trucking company to a very small men’s shoe company. And now I have the great honor and privilege of leading IdeaScale, the largest innovation-specific software company on the planet.
You mentioned IdeaScale. Go ahead. Give us a little teaser about what you actually do there.
Sure. So, well, I guess what I do is I’m the CEO, so I spend my time doing anything and everything, right, whether that means taking out the trash or doing marketing, coding, whatever’s needed, right? What IdeaScale does, though, is really cool. What it allows any large, complex organization to do is to collect ideas from their entire ecosystem rather than just the people who sit in the boardroom. So a thing that a lot of companies struggle with is, hey, how do we get the ideas from people in our satellite offices who aren’t necessarily super connected to the CEO or who are introverts or who don’t speak the headquarters main language? And so our software helps you collect all of those ideas. And just like a social media platform, it’ll help you rank those ideas. People can upvote and downvote those ideas. So the best ideas rise to the top.
No different than how a funny dance video rise to the top in TikTok or a cute cat image rises up in Instagram. But imagine this for much more impactful ideas that could be your company’s new product. It could be you’re a new initiative for your nonprofit, a new way to serve your constituents as a government. And you can get those ideas from your entire ecosystem. That could be your employees, that could be your customers, your shareholders, the people you serve as a nonprofit. And what that results in is just a much more diverse group of ideas and also the best ideas rising to the top, rather than just the ideas of the loudest people in the room.
I am one of those people that will always get drawn into a funny cat video. So I’m so glad you mentioned that. As a self-described innovation evangelist, you were really humble with me in our pre-interview in describing your freakishly high IQ. You really didn’t want to talk about it. I’m going to ask you to talk about it and how you leverage that in both your business and in your personal life?
In my personal life, I was, well, I’m on and off a reasonably competitive poker player. I stopped playing because I have other priorities in life. Yeah, I’m about to have a kid, so I’d rather spend time with my wife and my future child. But being very good at math and very able to think through things logically without a lot of emotion involved is an incredibly powerful skill in poker.
In my professional life, I think it helps in a few ways, right? Number one, it allows you to really be centered on why things are happening rather than use fuzzy logic. And that’s a pitfall that a lot of businesses fall into, that they proceed down a strategy or an action or tactic because someone said something that sounds good. So having kind of studied mathematics and a very logical way of thinking about things, it’s very easy to say, wait, that doesn’t actually make sense. And you can discover that on the fly before decisions are made, because often once a decision is made, it’s too late.
So you have to react in real time. And I think that's where some micro training and background really helps in the world of business.
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So some people may be questioning why I asked you that if you really didn’t want to talk about it. But I think it’s really important because we often typecast extremely intelligent people as not having social skills, as not being able to use their EQ, and you obviously step outside of that typecast. You have strong social skills, and I can tell you, I would imagine you rate really high in emotional intelligence. So that’s why I wanted to bring this forward. And I don’t usually have people talk about something that makes them terribly uncomfortable. But thank you for diving and deeper as to how that really helps you both in your personal life with that pending baby and in your business life. One question I often ask CEOs or leaders is what are three words that you present when you are your best? When you are adding the most value, what are three words?
Sure. So I would say I’m principled, I’m logical, and I’m fair. So when I’m at my best, I think those three words represent me quite well.
Yeah. So let’s dig into those. Principled. How does that show up? How do you show up when you are exhibiting being principled?
So the way we try and run IdeaScale is we have a very clear set of principles that I’ve laid out on what matters to the organization. Number one, we’re trying to create value for our three core constituents, which is our customers, our employees, and our shareholders. That’s the principle. So every action we take has to help all three of those parties. Second is we make business decisions that actually create value. So they expand the pie, and there’s a specific equation or way you run a software company that does that. So when we make decisions, again, there’s a principle. We’re not going to do a decision that violates how a software company should grow. And there’s some deep research on this that’s been known for decades. What I mean by principles, and that’s my personal life, too.
I have ethical principles or business principles, and I try and run my personal life by them, too.
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And those are clearly articulated both in my personal life and my professional life. These are the principles IdeaScale runs by. In terms of fair, it kind of ties into my principle thing, but I’m a big believer that you don’t have to cheat to get ahead. Right. Yes, sometimes cheating to get ahead makes life easier, but that’s not one of my principles. And I’d rather do things fairly in life where everyone wins rather than you have to screw someone to win. And that’s true both in a one on one interaction as well as in a corporate interaction. So certainly, in a negotiation, I will be aggressive for my side, but I will not endeavor to screw anybody over who’s sitting on the other side, which I think is sometimes different in the world of business where it’s always me, people always think in a us versus them perspective, I generally try and grow the pine, reach something fair. And logical, right? I try and make almost no decision, no meaningful decisions in my life based on emotion, right? So I may pick a candy bar based on temptation or because I’m hungry at that moment.
That’s probably not the greatest, most logical decision for my health to have a bag of chips, but any meaningful decision, right? Like, hey, who do I want to be married to? Where do I want to live? How do I want to invest my money? How do I want to run IdeaScale? Those serious decisions are entirely run or almost exclusively run based on logic rather than feelings, which I think allows me to have fewer regrets after the fact.
Fantastic. Principled, logical, and fair. All characteristics that leadership need to exhibit, if not all the time, at least most of the time. I ask you if you would share with us a process or step process that you use in your leadership and decision-making. And you offered something you call ICE. Please share with us, describe ICE for us.
Sure, so it’s a three-letter acronym that basically means, says innovate, collaborate, and execute. And it’s both a process and a philosophy. And I’ll try to describe both elements. The first step is innovate. And this is the idea that you basically need to get better every single day, whether you’re an individual or you’re an organization. And the reason is twofold. A, it feels good to get better at whatever you do, whether you’re playing basketball, whether you’re running a company, whether you’re an entrepreneur.
But secondly, in a more kind of paranoid way, if you’re not getting better, your competitors certainly are. So there is a strong motivation to innovate at whatever you’re doing. And it’s also a necessity. Second is collaborate. Innovation we often incorrectly think of or getting better, let’s use the word getting better innovation interchangeably. We often think of that as an individual process, somebody, a lone genius having a eureka moment in the shower or somebody at the gym, or running by themselves for hundreds of hours a day or a week becoming a ultra marathoner. That is often not how true excellence happens, right? If you think of Olympic athletes, they’re not just very rarely do you find a freakish talent who just works by themselves. They all had coaches, they had organizations behind them. So they need to collaborate. Innovation is no different, right? Whether you’re running a hardware store or a billion dollar software company, you need the input and support of a broad array of people.
Impact, truly meaningful impact, doesn’t happen by yourself, it happens through an agglomeration of collaboration of people. And then execution is the third step, which is, look, it’s great to have ideas, it’s great to have a vision, it’s great to have a bunch of people collaborating, you actually have to do something at the end of it, right? Do something in the real world, build something, go do something, get better at the gym, go lift those weights. After all that planning and thinking and collaborating, go build it.
Absolutely. And build it, you have done. Let’s dig in a little deeper about IdeaScale again. When a potential client or customer reaches out to you, what is their profile? What does that look like?
Sure. So I would divide our customers into kind of three groups. Number one is small organizations. If you’re below 100 people, our software is totally free for you to use, whether you’re a solopreneur with a Gmail address or you’re a 99% organization. You can just go use our software. Then our two kind of paying customer profiles, I would break into two different groups. One is public sector or nonprofits, and then the second is private sector.
So in the public sector, firstly, we are the largest provider of innovation software to the entire US federal government, and I think maybe as well to state governments already. The challenges they’re facing is obviously government needs to innovate, but it’s under a lot of constraints to do. So data privacy constraints, legal constraints, they’re often unionized. There’s lots of additional constraints. So our government customers are saying, look, we’re these large complex organizations that have in some cases been around for 200 years. Like the U.S. Post Office, isn’t that a Ben Franklin invention 250 years ago? I feel I should know that living in Philly. So our first group of kind of very typical customers is large government organizations that are important.
They meaningfully impact hundreds of millions of Americans each year. but they’re struggling to innovate in a way that is systematic, but also respectful of the constraints they’re under. The second group of our customers that’s very typical is large private sector organizations, think like Pfizer or Comcast. These are real customers bars. And what they’re trying to do is just they realize that they need to innovate or die, right? If they’re not innovating, their customers are. Nike is unfortunately, for example, going through some challenges right now because they didn’t innovate as fast as other apparel companies did. So they know that they need to innovate, they do have they are trying to innovate already, but they need a way to do so much more systematically.
And in a way that doesn’t just rely on the 10 lead designers at Nike or the 10 lead designers at McDonald’s or whatever, you want to be able to tap the collective intellect of your ecosystem, because that is the power of a million people’s minds is a lot better than the power of your 10 smartest people’s minds no matter how smart those 10 people are.
I love that. Successful leaders aren’t on an island all by themselves. They have trusted advisors, they have other people that they bounce ideas off. You don’t have to disclose any particular names, but who do you turn to when you’re trying to make decisions? What types of other leaders are you interacting with to get inspiration?
So a few things. Number one, I’m a big believer in reading academic research. So I try to absorb all the great knowledge from people who have written it down and like done so in a very thoughtful, researched way, not just their feelings about leadership. The second is a group of my college friends that have gone through different walks in life. Some are in academia, some are in business, some are in finance, some are in nonprofit. And they’re very well grounded because they know me personally very deeply. So they know, hey, this is something Nick is good at and this is something Nick is terrible at. So we’re not going to recommend Nick take an action that is not natural for him or not applying to his strengths.
Third is obviously my wife. She is a very smart person, knows me very deeply. Can tell me when I’m not emotionally centered or being as thoughtful as I can. Fourth is a couple of business school professors that I’ve stayed in touch with. And then fifth is my chairman. Especially at IdeaScale, I am very, very fortunate that my chairman is a really smart guy. He’s a serial entrepreneur, has built several companies. He is both the entrepreneur as well as now the leader of multiple large, I forget, like tens of millions of dollars of revenues of organizations and several that he’s built himself, including IdeaScale, which he then handed the keys to me at some point. So having access to somebody like that who’s actually done it and who’s built companies successfully repeatedly is a privilege to have access to.
It does take a team. So in addition to those live, real people, who do you read, follow, do you admire as a leader or an author and can be that additional spark or source of inspiration? Is there any one particular person when you see that they’ve published something or they’ve put something out in video format or do something like, okay, I’m going to make time for that? Anyone come to mind?
Yes, there’s one individual called Aswath Damodaran. He’s a professor of finance at NYU, the university. The good news is he’s incredibly thoughtful, puts out really good stuff. He’s considered the godfather of valuations. If you’re doing anything in, if you’re a senior executive in corporate America finance, you should definitely read his book. It’s called The Bible of Corporate Finance.
The challenge is it’s a heavy, he writes heavy stuff that requires not math. You don’t need to like anything more than high school math to read and understand, but it’s not something you can sit there in a cafe with a cup of coffee. You need to be like, in a quiet place. You probably need to be taking notes. If you try and listen to him on audio or try and listen to an audio book or an AI reading his books, it’ll go over your head. It certainly goes over mine. So incredibly valuable, really useful if you want to lead a company, whether it be a small like mom and pop hardware store or a multi-billion dollar organization. Incredibly well researched, well thoughtful, and he doesn’t add a lot of fluff. So it’s like really information dense. But again, it’s not a book that you read on a flight or in an airport or as you’re as you’re dozing off to bed.
Got it. We have been forewarned, but now I am intrigued. And we’ll have to look up some of this information. I’m really curious, for the people that you are hiring for IdeaScale, what constant or what common threads, what characteristics do you look for for people to be successful at IdeaScale?
Sure. We have a bit of a weird process here where we generally don’t care which school you went to or which walks of life you’re coming from, whether you worked at famous companies or no-name companies. Our hiring process instead focuses, I think, on a few core elements. Number one, real skills. Do you have real skills at whatever you do, whether that be marketing, whether that be security, whether it be programming? So if you went to MIT and you don’t have marketing skills, we’re not hiring you for a marketing role just because you went to MIT. Obviously a great university, but that doesn’t matter to us. We’re looking for your skills, not your brand names. Second is ethics.
Look, we’re remote. We’ve been a remote-first organization even before COVID, so you place a lot of trust in employees that they’re not stealing your data, that they’re actually doing work, that they’re being productive. Third is communication. Again, this ties into being remote-first. We rely on, you know, the joke is push notification. You tell your boss or your colleagues when something is wrong or when you need help, because they can’t, they shouldn’t need to ask you all the time. You need to be able to communicate proactively and clearly, right? I also don’t want somebody writing me a six-page email when they could write two bullets and say, Nick, this is broken, help me, right?
I don't need to know the six-page back history. So that's part of effective communication.
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And then a commitment to learning is probably the fourth, I lost count, but the fourth skill set, which is you need someone who, look, we’re an innovation company. We believe you have to be better tomorrow, both as an individual and as an organization. And I certainly want that in my employees because number one, it’s a philosophy thing or a principle thing at IdeaScale. But number two, it’s very practical because the skills that are relevant today in almost any role are very different from those that will be relevant in four or five years. A very simple example is coming up with great images or social media tags was a very useful skill three years ago, right? Coming up with a cute, quirky social media tags or posts.
Today, that is 100% doable via any AI that you use, and it’ll be much better than the best human being social media writer. So, like, the existence of a social media manager, that used to be a job, and it just isn’t. And if you haven’t been able to adapt to your skills, to the current environment, then you’re less relevant today and perhaps unemployable. And that is also true, for example, in more technical roles like engineering, where our software engineers need to be able to use these generative AI tools, not just in software, like new programming languages, generative AI tools, automated quality assurance tools. If they’re not learning these skills, they’re already out of date in like three or four years. So that’s really important in any role that you’re always allocating time to learn, excited about learning, but also proactively allocating time to learn.
I love it. So let me review those really quickly. You have to have real skills. You have to be able to do something, not just have something on paper. Ethics, they need to have an ethical framework, communication skills, and they need to be innovative. Does that sum it up?
Yeah, innovative/continuous learning. I kind of blur the lines there.
I love it. All right. What have I not asked you that I should have asked you, either about your journey or IdeaScale?
Sure. So, I think the one thing you haven’t asked me is kind of what is the secret to our successes at IdeaScale. And I think it’s, there’s a common thread there, which is, you know, it sounds almost mundane, but working incredibly hard, right? So at IdeaScale, or sorry, I personally work really hard. I’m working 80 to 100 hour weeks consistently on top of managing my personal life and my personal obligations. But that also is how IdeaScale works for our clients. There’s a lot of software companies out there, a lot of great products, but one of the ways we differentiate ourselves is we’re just willing to outwork our competition. A simple example is a big customer of ours a year ago had an issue where they believed our software was not as accessible to people with disabilities as it should be. From the moment they identified it, it took us two days, including me personally involved, every single day on communication, saying, like, okay, here’s the plan.
Here’s how we’re going to fix it. It’s going to take us six weeks to fix it. And every week you’re going to get an update, both from the technical team, as well as from me. I’m going to personally be watching it. And very few companies are going to give you that level of reaction. This was not a big client where they’re paying all our paychecks. This was just the right thing to do where we are demonstrating like, you raised a legitimate issue. We care about having our software be legally compliant, as well as accessible to people with disabilities. It matters to customers, it matters to us ethically. And so we’re going to just work our butts off and fix this as quickly as possible. And I think that is a mentality that really helps us succeed and demonstrate value to our clients.
Fantastic. Nick, I have learned so much, and I’m sure some of our listeners have learned some things. What’s the best way for them to get in touch with you if they want to know even more?
Sure, two ways. Number one, you can go to ideascale.com. Again, our software is totally free. If you’re below 100 people, just click Get Started Free. You’re ready to use in less than two minutes. Super easy to use and set up, entirely online, so nothing to download or install. Secondly, if you want to get in touch with me personally, two best ways are on LinkedIn. My name is Nick Jain. I respond to 100% of messages there, so feel free to DM me. Or alternatively, you can email me directly at nick.jain@ideascale.com.
Fantastic, thank you so much for carving out some of your busy time, and I look forward to maybe some future conversations.
Important Links:* Nick’s LinkedIn * IdeaScale * Krista Crawford’s LinkedIn * Relevant tools: Automation Activator™, Function Finder Chart™, and Playbook Mapping Chart™
David Snider, Founder and CEO of Harness Wealth, is driven by a mission to help clients build financial confidence while making rapid decisions with clarity through modernized, tailored advisory solutions.
We learn about David’s journey from aspiring politician to private equity professional, and ultimately to entrepreneur. He explains the RAPID Framework—Recommend, Agree, Perform, Input, and Decide—a decision-making process he applies to foster collaboration and clarity within his team. He shares his insights on creating scalable solutions for complex financial and tax challenges, emphasizing the importance of empowering clients with tailored tools and resources. He also highlights the value of peer advisory groups and continuous learning to navigate leadership challenges effectively.
(1:32) David’s personal Why
(7:24) Advice for young entrepreneurs
(11:50) The RAPID Framework
(19:17) How Harness Wealth empowers financial confidence
(22:19) Find out more about David and Harness Wealth
Links and Resources
- David’s LinkedIn
- Harness Wealth
- Moneymakers: Inside the New World of Finance and Business by David Snider
- Krista Crawford’s LinkedIn
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/free-business-growth-tools-summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Nick Jain, CEO of IdeaScale, is driven by a mission to help organizations innovate to success by democratizing innovation, enabling them to crowdsource and rank ideas from their entire ecosystem.
We learn about Nick’s journey from growing up in India and building a career in private equity to leading IdeaScale, the largest innovation-focused software company globally. He explains the ICE Framework—Innovate, Collaborate, and Execute—a philosophy and process that encourages continuous improvement, teamwork, and actionable results. He highlights how IdeaScale helps organizations like Pfizer and the U.S. federal government overcome constraints and systematically tap into collective intelligence for impactful innovation. He also shares the company’s commitment to adaptability and hard work, providing responsive, high-touch solutions for customers.
(0:44) Nick’s journey to leadership
(8:27) The ICE Framework
(10:37) How IdeaScale transforms innovation
(16:32) Building a team for continuous learning
(19:47) Learn more about Nick and IdeaScale
Links and Resources
- Nick’s LinkedIn
- IdeaScale
- Krista Crawford’s LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristacrawfordphd/
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/free-business-growth-tools-summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Ron Crabtree, CEO of MetaExperts, is driven by a mission to stop waste in organizations by addressing digital transformation, labor shortages, and operational excellence.
We learn about Ron’s journey in supporting businesses, especially in manufacturing, to navigate these critical issues. He explains his framework for transformation, focusing on three pillars: digital transformation with practical applications of AI and automation, workforce development to address labor shortages, and Lean Six Sigma practices to eliminate waste and optimize processes. He highlights the importance of value stream mapping and applying the Pareto principle to target key areas for improvement, helping organizations become more efficient and resilient.
(1:34) Ron’s personal Why
(4:19) The MetaOps Competitiveness Framework
(18:10) Value stream mapping
(21:27) Find out more about Ron
Links and Resources
- Ron’s LinkedIn
- MetaOps
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Cary Lawrence, CEO of Decile, is driven by a passion for decoding human behavior to help businesses market to AI-generated avatars, build loyalty, and drive growth through data.
We discuss Cary’s four-step framework for customer engagement: collecting first-party data, identifying high-value customers, tailoring customer journeys, and tracking behaviors over time. She explains how Decile leverages AI to create detailed marketing personas, allowing brands to engage customers more effectively and optimize marketing spend. She emphasizes the importance of understanding customer nuances to build genuine connections, enabling brands to achieve sustainable growth by aligning with their customers’ unique needs and preferences.
(1:33) Cary’s personal Why
(4:24) The Customer Loyalty Framework
(16:34) Marketing approaches
(22:33) Cary’s most exciting project currently
(25:46) Learn more about Cary
Links and Resources
- Cary’s LinkedIn
- Decile
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Christian Espinosa, Founder and CEO of Blue Goat Cyber, is driven by a mission to ensure medical device security while helping his team drive project efficiency through innovative compensation structures.
We learn about Christian’s journey from overcoming a life-threatening health scare to founding Blue Goat Cyber, focusing on medical device cybersecurity. He explains his approach to designing security into medical devices from the start, rather than trying to fix issues later. He shares his Efficiency Driver framework, which incentivizes his team to become more efficient by tying compensation to project outcomes. He also emphasizes the importance of emotional intelligence in cybersecurity, detailing his seven-step methodology for fostering self-awareness, communication, and continuous improvement within teams. His insights offer strategies for medical device manufacturers and cybersecurity professionals to ensure both innovation and safety in their products.
(1:30) Chrstian’s personal Why
(5:46) The Efficiency Driver Framework
(10:17) The Smartest Person in the Room by Christian Espinosa
(20:29) Learn more about Christian
Links and Resources
- Christian’s LinkedIn
- Blue Goat Cyber
- The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity by Christian Espinosa https://a.co/d/eYT2oOM
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Janet Metzger, Business Strategist and Network Marketing Expert, is driven by a desire to help others achieve success by focusing on simplicity and consistency, and by always getting your head right first to stay motivated and clear.
We learn about Janet’s journey from corporate executive to expert in network marketing, where she now mentors others in achieving their business goals. She explains her simple and structured success formula, which includes building consistent daily habits, practicing gratitude, and focusing on personal development. She emphasizes the importance of simplifying business processes, staying accountable, and helping others uncover their own "Why" to stay motivated. Her approach offers practical strategies for entrepreneurs and network marketers to create disciplined routines, maintain a clear focus, and grow their businesses while aligning with their personal goals.
(1:14) Janet’s personal Why
(2:57) The 4 Step Success Formula
(20:16) A question for entrepreneurs
(22:58) Connect with Janet
Links and Resources
- Janet’s Facebook
- Network Marketer’s Den
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Jeff Berkowitz, co-founder and CEO of Delve Deep Learning, is driven by his passion to help businesses clone themselves into an AI, enabling them to navigate complexities and create prosperity through innovation.
We learn about Jeff’s journey from politics and public affairs to launching Delve Deep Learning, an AI-native company revolutionizing public affairs intelligence. He explains his AI Innovation Process, which includes training AI to be your intern, testing and selecting the best tools, deciding whether to be a buyer or builder, launching for external use, and iterating on the process. He also highlights how this approach helps businesses streamline workflows, scale services, and democratize access to AI-powered public affairs intelligence.
(1:31) Jeff’s personal Why
(5:43) The AI Innovation Process
(13:52) How your company can use this process
(19:40) Find out more about Jeff
Links and Resources
- Jeff’s LinkedIn
- Delve Deep Learning
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Ryan Kauth, Business Coach, Facilitator, and Coleman Chair in Entrepreneurship at Marquette University, is driven by his mission to rekindle growth in family enterprises and serial founder-led businesses by helping owners develop strategic leadership.
We learn about Ryan’s journey from educator to business coach, working with family business owners and serial entrepreneurs to overcome growth plateaus and succession challenges. Ryan explains his five-category framework for rekindling growth, which includes leadership development, customer creation, culture, finance, and operations. He emphasizes the importance of moving from functional roles to strategic leadership, empowering teams, and preparing the next generation to lead family businesses successfully.
(1:18) Ryan’s personal Why
(4:44) The 5 Categories To Change
(15:49) Challenges of family enterprises
(24:42) Learn more about Ryan
Links and Resources
- Ryan’s LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryankauth/
- Ryan Kauth ryankauth.com
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Peter Santry, Summit OS Guide and Value Builder Licensee, is driven by a mission to help leadership teams execute like hell in 45 days, aligning their core business strategies to achieve rapid growth and profitability.
We discuss the Core Business Lens™ tool, which helps companies identify their key strengths, most profitable customers, and core competencies. Peter explains how this tool allows businesses to sharpen their focus and drive profitability by narrowing in on what they do best. He also highlights the importance of Summit OS's 45-day Execution Momentum, a system designed to achieve early wins and build long-term business momentum, and emphasizes the value of deep client relationships and tailored strategies for sustained success.
(0:54) Peter’s personal Why
(2:11) The Core Business Lens tool
(10:50) 45-day Execution Momentum
(20:27) Working with growth-oriented companies
(27:07) Connect with Peter
Links and Resources
- Peter’s LinkedIn
- Fox Run Advisors
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
David Achata, Founder of Achata Coaching, Inc., is driven by his mission to help leaders multiply the best of who they are by fostering self-awareness and intentional growth.
We learn about David’s journey from high-energy workaholic to leadership coach, shaped by personal challenges and a deep desire to help others become healthier, more effective leaders. The guest explains his Four Disciplines of Retreating framework, which includes going away alone, with a guide, with your team, and with your family. David emphasizes the importance of self-reflection, cultivating social resilience, and building strong personal connections to enhance leadership effectiveness.
(0:35) David’s personal Why
(6:17) The 4 Disciplines of Retreating
(31:18) Connect with David
Links and Resources
- David’s LinkedIn
- Achata Coaching
- Executive Retreats for Busy Business Leaders: How to Achieve More by Working Less by David Achata
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Reggie James, Founder of Digital Clarity, is driven by his passion to accelerate tech growth by sharing his experiences—both successes and failures—to help technology leaders achieve sustainable business growth.
We discuss the Revenue Acceleration Framework, which includes four key steps: Diagnose, Workshop, Strategize, and Execute. Reggie explains how this framework helps companies identify bottlenecks, craft actionable strategies, and achieve sustainable growth. He emphasizes the importance of nurturing client relationships with education and genuine content, rather than relying on traditional sales tactics.
(0:44) Reggie’s personal Why
(6:58) The Revenue Acceleration Framework
(17:52) Adapting to the changes in the market
(23:43) Learn more about Reggie
Links and Resources
- Reggie’s LinkedIn
- Digital Clarity
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Christian Boucousis, CEO of Afterburner, is driven by a mission to bring the fighter pilot mindset into business, helping leaders debrief daily and achieve high-impact performance through structured reflection and action.
We discuss the ORCA Debrief framework, which consists of Objective, Result, Cause, and Action. This framework allows teams to expand their comfort zones and improve performance by focusing on small, actionable steps and learning from each experience. Christian shares how debriefing, a core fighter pilot practice, can accelerate learning, enhance accountability, and drive meaningful progress in any organization. He emphasizes the power of disciplined execution and continuous improvement to thrive in high-speed, complex environments. Learn more about how the fighter pilot mindset can transform your leadership by tuning into the episode.
(0:40) Christian’s personal Why
(7:36) The ORCA Debrief Framework
(19:48) A fighter pilot in business
(23:13) The most exciting project Christian is working on
(25:16) Find out more about Christian
Links and Resources
- Christian’s LinkedIn
- Afterburner
- On Time on Target by James D. Murphy and Christian Boucousis
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Sayre Darling, a business coach and strategic advisor, is driven by her passion to help leaders converse expertly to connect and foster meaningful relationships.
We learn about the difference between transactional business communications and true conversations, emphasizing how the latter fosters stronger connections, builds trust, and creates energy. Sayre introduces her 4-step Communication Framework, which encourages a shift from corporate jargon and rigid communication patterns to active listening, asking the right questions, and being fully present in each interaction. She also highlights the importance of "momentary surrender." Learn how by listening to the podcast.
(0:39) Sayre’s personal Why
(3:00) The 4-step Communication Framework
(12:52) Momentary surrender
(14:29) Improving your communication skills
(26:13) Converse with Sayre
Links and Resources
- Sayre’s LinkedIn
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Bo Abrams, Co-Founder of Kommu, is passionate about creating solutions that empower people to develop a startup and share their homes with trusted friends and communities.
We discuss his Marketplace Blueprint framework, which includes recognizing a personal problem, evaluating its impact on others, researching competitors, identifying gaps, and developing a viable business plan. Bo highlights how his own frustrations with the affordability of short-term rentals inspired Kommu’s development. By building a platform centered around trust and personal networks, Kommu offers an alternative to traditional short-term rental platforms like Airbnb, making travel more accessible for Millennials and Gen Z renters.
(0:35) Bo’s personal Why
(5:19) Kommu vs Airbnb
(12:02) The Marketplace Development Framework
(15:22) Developing a startup
(29:23) Connect with Bo
Links and Resources
- Bo’s LinkedIn
- Download Kommu
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Michele DeFilippo, Founder of 1106 Design, is driven by a passion to help authors publish their books like a pro by correcting misinformation about self-publishing and offering professional guidance.
We learn about Michele's Professional Publishing Blueprint, which includes structural editing, copyediting, cover design, typesetting, proofreading, and the final print and e-book launch. She explains how this framework helps authors produce books that meet traditional publishing standards while retaining full control over their work and royalties. Michele emphasizes that professional publishing services ensure a polished, market-ready book, allowing authors to focus on their message and audience.
(0:29) Michele’s personal Why
(6:33) The Professional Publishing Blueprint
(14:10) Self-publishing vs. traditional publishing
(20:59) Ways to write a book
(24:24) Find out more about Michele
Links and Resources
- Michele’s LinkedIn
- 1106 Design
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Lenny Giller, Principal and Visionary Leader of Reliable Technology Services, Inc., is driven by a passion for helping businesses make IT their bi*ch by achieving their goals and enhancing their success through technology.
We learn about Lenny's RTS Account Management Framework, which helps clients by setting communication expectations, understanding their goals, tracking performance KPIs, holding them accountable, and using technology strategically. He emphasizes the importance of aligning technology solutions with a company’s mission to drive productivity and security. Lenny also shares how fostering client accountability ensures that technology investments support long-term growth and business success.
(0:36) Lenny’s personal Why
(2:16) RTS Account Management Framework
(13:49) Cybersecurity for MSPs
(18:30) Lenny’s most exciting project for RTS
(21:31) Find out more about Lenny
Links and Resources
- Lenny’s LinkedIn
- Reliable Technology Services
- Contact Lenny through lenny@reliabletechnology.co or (410) 773-9285
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint® Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Eddie Speed, Owner of Colonial Note Funding Group and Founder and President of NoteSchool, is driven by a passion to help people compress time by teaching them how to invest in mortgage notes effectively.
We learn about Eddie's journey from entering the note investing industry at a young age to becoming a leading expert. He explains his framework for evaluating mortgage notes, which focuses on assessing credit, qualifications, and property type. Eddie emphasizes the benefits of being "the bank" rather than owning rental properties, offering practical strategies for individuals looking to achieve higher returns and cash flow through note investing.
(0:41) Eddie’s personal Why
(2:18) Why you should invest in notes
(8:29) 7 Steps to Business Owner Framework
(13:59) A good time to invest
(26:09) Learn more about Eddie
Links and Resources
- Eddie’s LinkedIn
- NoteSchool
- Maximize Your Portfolio with the Latest in Note Investing
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Ethan Giffin, Founder and CEO of Groove Commerce, is driven by a passion to help businesses scale their eCommerce portals by solving complex challenges through data-driven solutions.
We learn about Ethan's eCommerce Scorecard, a framework that includes five key metrics: sessions, orders, revenue, average order value, and conversion rate. This framework helps businesses track their success and optimize their online presence. He also emphasizes the importance of leveraging these metrics to drive growth and offers practical strategies for improving website performance and increasing revenue.
(0:59) Ethan’s personal Why
(5:10) eCommerce Scorecard Framework
(17:46) eCommerce Masters Podcast
(19:58) Break free from Amazon
(24:36) Find out more about Ethan
Links and Resources
- Ethan’s LinkedIn
- Groove Commerce
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Thomas Rechtien, President of Nance Steel Sales LLC and Certified Summit OS Guide, is driven by a passion to help people become the best versions of themselves and run great meetings that drive impactful results.
We learn about Thomas's framework, which helps leaders foster trust, improve communication, and drive results in their organizations. He emphasizes the importance of well-run meetings in achieving better team dynamics and organizational success, offering practical strategies for leaders looking to elevate their meetings and leadership practices.
(0:37) Thomas’s personal Why
(2:25) Thomas’s Coaching philosophy
(5:41) 4 Secrets to Effective Meetings
(16:25) Common communication challenges
(19:44) Learn more about Thomas
Links and Resources
- Thomas’s LinkedIn
- Rechtien Consult
- Contact Thomas through thomas@rechtienconsult.com or (219) 743-6749
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Steve Scanlon, CEO and Co-Founder of Rewire, Inc., is passionate about helping still your lizard brain and achieve authentic transformation through neuroplasticity.
We discuss his REWIRE framework, which includes Rest, Enjoy, Wellness, Integrate, Release, and Execute. Steve emphasizes the importance of stilling the lizard brain, a concept he explores in his book, Still The Lizard, to transcend survival mode and foster sustainable positive change. His insights on the significance of sleep, wellness, and integrating coaching into the process provide valuable strategies for individuals and organizations looking to enhance their mental and emotional well-being.
(0:35) Steve’s personal Why
(2:46) The Lizard Brain
(10:22) The REWIRE Framework
(27:58) Still The Lizard by Steve Scanlon
(30:14) Connect with Steve
Links and Resources
- Steve’s LinkedIn
- Rewire
- Still The Lizard by Steve Scanlon
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Jason Barnard, Founder and CEO of Kalicube, is driven by a passion to help “make the machines get you” by controlling how search engines and AI platforms perceive and represent you online.
We learn about Jason's transformation from being known as a cartoon blue dog to becoming a recognized digital marketing expert. He explains his Kalicube Process, a three-phase framework that includes Understandability, Credibility, and Deliverability. This process helps people and organizations build a consistent and accurate online presence. He emphasizes the power of controlling one's digital footprint and provides practical strategies for future-proofing digital search strategies across platforms like Google, Bing, and ChatGPT.
(0:34) Jason’s personal Why
(3:18) The Kalicube Process
(24:01) Utilizing SEO for your branding
(27:55) Future of digital marketing
(30:42) Find out more about Jason
Links and Resources
- Jason’s LinkedIn
- Kalicube
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Mike Begg, Co-Founder and CEO of AMZ Advisers, is passionate about helping you sell your product on Amazon with expert strategies.
We discuss his Amazon Funnel Framework, which includes studying the ranking algorithm, building your funnel, and advertising strategically. Mike emphasizes the importance of bottom-of-the-funnel strategies to maximize conversions before expanding marketing efforts. His insights on optimizing product listings, obtaining reviews, and competitive pricing offer valuable guidance for brands looking to enhance their Amazon presence and performance.
(0:35) Mike’s personal Why
(1:53) The Amazon Funnel Framework
(13:38) Starting with Amazon
(17:25) Amazon listing vs. website listing
(21:03) Learn more about Mike
Links and Resources
- Mike’s LinkedIn
- AMZ Advisers
- Test-drive the Summit OS® Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Julie Williamson, CEO of Karrikins Group, is driven by a passion to turn agreements into alignment in organizations.
We explore Julie’s journey of transforming businesses by aligning leadership actions with strategic goals. She highlights the importance of moving beyond mere agreement to actual implementation and execution. Julie introduces the Karrikins Diamond Triangle framework, which connects the "Why," the "What," and the "How." By focusing on the "How," she helps leaders make informed decisions that drive meaningful change and avoid the "failure gap," where good ideas fall short due to lack of action.
(0:41) Julie’s personal Why
(2:46) Karrikins Diamond Triangle Framework
(13:57) Communication with a new language
(19:11) Karrikins Competency Model or Four C’s
(22:48) Find out more about Julie
Links and Resources
- Julie’s LinkedIn
- Karrikins Group Website
- Karrikins Group on YouTube
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Brandon Gano, Co-Founder of Whadif, is driven by a desire to fix problems and help business owners get control of their business and time.
We learn about Brandon's journey from being a slave to his business to becoming a true business owner, which inspired him to help others do the same. He introduces his HARMONIOUS Business Architecture framework, designed to help owners focus on impactful activities. Additionally, he discusses The Less is More framework, offering a roadmap for diagnosing problems, strategic planning, and executing efficiently to avoid overwhelm and maximize results.
(0:32) Brandon’s personal Why
(2:16) HARMONIOUS Business Architecture
(7:46) The Less is More Framework
(26:18) Learn more about Brandon
Links and Resources
- Brandon’s LinkedIn
- Audio Series on Whadif
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Richard Parker, CEO of Diomo Corporation, is driven by a desire to make business ownership attainable for anyone committed to the journey, advocating the principle to invest in what you know best.
We learn about Richard's path from growing up in a lower middle-class neighborhood to becoming a successful business owner and mentor. He explains his 4-step Business Buying Framework, which includes discovering the right business for you, embracing imperfections, having a strong need to buy (burning the boats), and following a proven blueprint. He emphasizes the importance of understanding uncertainty, narrowing down options, and surrounding oneself with experienced advisors. His systematic approach helps prospective buyers navigate the complex process of business acquisition, turning their dreams into reality.
(0:46) Richard’s personal Why
(2:35) Entrepreneurship as a path
(9:34) 4-step Business Buying Framework
(19:22) Obstacle to becoming an entrepreneur
(23:52) Blueprint to success
Links and Resources
- Richard’s LinkedIn
- Diomo
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Tim Whitmire, Co-Founder of F3 and CXN Advisory, is driven by a desire to plant, grow, and serve groups, harnessing the synergy of people working together to achieve greater things.
We learn about Tim's journey from founding F3, the largest network of workout groups in America, to creating CXN Advisory. He shares how F3, which stands for Fitness, Fellowship, and Faith, grew from a local workout group to a national movement impacting over 100,000 men. He explains his Tentpole Leadership Framework, which involves centering your tentpole around core principles and your ideal customer, stratifying your audience, and managing the tension between groups. This approach helps leadership teams grow, maintain alignment, and effectively expand their organizations while staying true to their foundational values.
(0:37) Tim’s personal Why
(3:16) Founding of F3
(11:30) Tentpole Leadership Framework
(21:56) The most exciting project Tim is currently undertaking
(32:11) Working with Tim
Links and Resources
- Tim’s LinkedIn
- Schedule a call with CXN Advisory
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Scott Eisenberg, Professor at the Ted Rogers School of Management at Toronto Metropolitan University, is driven by a deep understanding of how employees start a spinout venture.
We discuss the key moments that spark employees to leave their corporate roles and start their own ventures. From strategic disagreements and personal conflicts to ethical dilemmas and liquidity events, he sheds light on the diverse reasons behind these entrepreneurial leaps. He introduces his framework, which focuses on preparations and considerations, addresses strategies and challenges faced during the transition, and highlights post-launch steps for managing and growing the new business.
He also introduces the idea of hybrid entrepreneurship, where individuals juggle side projects while still employed, eventually turning their side hustle into a full-fledged business. Andre’s new book, Spinout Ventures: Transition from Employees to Entrepreneurs, is a valuable guide for aspiring entrepreneurs and managers alike, offering practical advice on turning corporate frustrations into entrepreneurial success.
() Scott’s personal Why
() Selling a business like Gino Wickman - The EOS example
() Scott’s most exciting project
() Find out more about Scott
Links and Resources
- Scott’s LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotteisenbergfranklin/
- Franklin Capital Advisors franklincapital.us
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Andre Laplume, Professor at the Ted Rogers School of Management at Toronto Metropolitan University, is driven by a deep understanding of how employees start a spinout venture.
We discuss the key moments that spark employees to leave their corporate roles and start their own ventures. From strategic disagreements and personal conflicts to ethical dilemmas and liquidity events, he sheds light on the diverse reasons behind these entrepreneurial leaps. He introduces his framework, which focuses on preparations and considerations, addresses strategies and challenges faced during the transition, and highlights post-launch steps for managing and growing the new business.
He also introduces the idea of hybrid entrepreneurship, where individuals juggle side projects while still employed, eventually turning their side hustle into a full-fledged business. Andre’s new book, Spinout Ventures: Transition from Employees to Entrepreneurs, is a valuable guide for aspiring entrepreneurs and managers alike, offering practical advice on turning corporate frustrations into entrepreneurial success.
(0:29) Andre’s personal Why
(3:20) Types of Entrepreneurship
(10:57) The 3 Phases of a Spinout Framework
(18:44) Ethical Dilemmas & Triggers
(24:41) Hybrid Entrepreneurship
(32:32) Spinout Ventures: Transition from Employees to Entrepreneurs by Andre Laplume
Links and Resources
- Andre’s LinkedIn
- Spinout Ventures: Transition from Employees to Entrepreneurs by Andre Laplume
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Ton Dobbe, Founder of Value Inspiration, is driven by his passion for technology and a mission to help SaaS companies create a remarkable effect with predictable growth in their businesses.
We learn about Ton's journey from his career in enterprise software and product marketing to founding Value Inspiration. He explains his framework for the Remarkable Effect, focusing on how SaaS companies can stand out, attract the right customers, and ensure sustainable growth. He shares insights on the three levers of his framework: the value lever, the viability lever, and the volume lever. He also discusses the importance of selling transformation over products and the power of standing for something significant in the market.
(0:48) Ton’s personal Why
(3:24) The Remarkable Levers Framework
(17:40) Stand For vs. Stand Against
(25:17) The Remarkable Effect by Ton Dobbe
Links and Resources
- Ton’s LinkedIn
- Value Inspiration
- The Remarkable Effect by Ton Dobbe
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Ajay Malik, CEO of Secomind.AI, is driven by his passion for leveraging AI to improve efficiency and productivity. Letting AI do the Work is the guiding principle at Secomind.AI, which helps incorporate AI into products, workflows, and customer support using their Enterprise AI platform, StudioX.
We delve into Ajay’s journey into AI, from his college days to his deep involvement at Google, and now leading Secomind.AI. He shares his AI Culture Framework, which has dramatically boosted productivity in his company: establishing an AI policy to mandate AI usage company-wide, leading by example, encouraging shameless and open use of AI, and continuously improving AI skills and applications.
He also emphasizes the importance of curiosity and the ability to distinguish quality as key skills for effectively using AI. He recommends using multiple AI tools, including ChatGPT, Google Gemini, and others, to get diverse perspectives and improve problem-solving abilities.
(0:46) Ajay’s personal Why
(4:01) Getting into AI
(5:21) The AI Culture Framework
(10:25) How to turn AI into a skill
(21:54) Top AI tools
(26:00) Future of using AI
(28:24) Learn more about Ajay
Links and Resources
- Ajay’s LinkedIn
- Secomind.AI
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Test-drive Steve's Summit OS Toolkit: https://stevepreda.com/summit-os-toolkit/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Matt Verlaque, COO of SaaS Academy, is driven by his passion for service and helping entrepreneurs succeed. "Build a Talent Pipeline" is central to Matt’s approach as he aids 5,000 B2B SaaS founders in achieving their goals.
We explore his journey from fireman to software entrepreneur and now COO, where he aids 5,000 B2B SaaS founders in achieving their goals. He shares his Talent Pipeline Process, treating talent acquisition like a sales process. His framework includes generating demand to attract top talent, using a one-minute video filter to assess candidates, conducting quick screening interviews and assessments, and assigning a paid test project to evaluate practical skills.
He also introduces his upcoming book, "Software as a Science," which reveals growth strategies for SaaS companies and provides actionable frameworks to overcome revenue plateaus. The book shares SaaS Academy's proven playbooks, helping founders solve their growth challenges with a scientific approach.
(0:40) Matt’s personal Why
(2:43) The Talent Pipeline Process
(9:26) Attracting A-Players
(21:35) Software as a Science by Matt Verlaque
(28:48) Find out more about Matt
Links and Resources
- Matt’s LinkedIn
- Matt Verlaque
- SaaS Academy
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Matthew Stafford, CEO of Build Grow Scale, is passionate about empowering business owners to succeed. His expertise lies in e-commerce and conversion rate optimization, emphasizing on "Homer Simpson" your website for effective conversion, not just traffic.
Matt's Quick Wins Framework focuses on maximizing existing traffic by enhancing search functionality and optimizing filter pages. He highlights the importance of clear navigation and customer-centric design in boosting conversion rates for both product and service-based websites. He also advocates for simplicity and understanding customer needs to build trust and drive sales.
(0:26) Matt’s personal Why
(1:17) Conversion rate optimization
(3:32) Quick Wins Framework
(15:38) Sustainable conversion tactics
(17:59) Product company vs. Service company
(21:13) Your website’s potential
(25:03) Find out more about Matt
Links and Resources
- Matt’s LinkedIn
- Build Grow Scale
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Peter Kingma, Head of Working Capital Practice at EY Parthenon Americas, is driven by his curiosity and passion for solving problems to help leading companies crown their cash and master cash management. In "Cash is King," he emphasizes how effective cash flow management, distinct from revenue generation, is vital for sustained business growth and resilience.
We discuss his framework for converting revenue into cash: Collect Receivables Faster to boost liquidity and reduce dependency on credit, Pay Customers Slower to optimize cash utilization, and Accelerate Inventory Turns to minimize holding costs and enhance operational efficiency. These strategies not only streamline financial processes but also fortify businesses against market uncertainties, ensuring robust financial health and agility.
(0:43) Peter’s personal Why
(1:48) Revenue vs. Cash
(6:51) The Revenue to Cash Framework
(16:17) Cash Is King by Peter Kingma
(19:29) Building the perfect business
(23:20) Learn more about Peter
Links and Resources
- Peter’s LinkedIn
- Peter Kingma
- Cash Is King by Peter Kingma
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Eisha Armstrong, Executive Chairman and Co-Founder of Vecteris, is motivated by making a difference and fostering an inclusive, balanced work environment. Her focus is to productize your services to drive success.
We discuss her journey in co-founding Vecteris, a consulting firm helping B2B services organizations productize their offerings. Eisha shares her insights on scaling businesses through technology, standardization, and addressing urgent customer problems. Her framework includes productizing services, bundling additional services, and developing SaaS products. She emphasizes the importance of innovation and leveraging generative AI to improve service delivery.
(0:42) Eisha’s path to Vecteris
(6:19) The Productization Spectrum framework
(10:16) Deadliest sins of productization
(18:49) Eisha’s new book
(20:22) Learn more about Eisha
Links and Resources
- Eisha’s LinkedIn
- Books by Eisha Armstrong
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Nelson Nigel, Founder and CEO of Kidmoto Technologies, is driven by his passion for entrepreneurship and creating innovative products that improve lives.
We explore Nelson's vision of business as a puzzle, stressing the importance of a clear vision and strong foundation. He discusses Kidmoto's mobile app, allowing parents to pre-book rides with pre-installed child car seats, ensuring safety and convenience with professional chauffeurs.
He also talks about expanding to serve niche markets often overlooked by larger companies, highlighting the significance of planning for growth and continuously adding pieces to the business puzzle to achieve long-term success.
(0:28) Nelson’s love for entrepreneurship
(7:58) Kidmoto as a business idea
(14:52) The 10,000 Puzzle Piece Business
(19:05) The future of KidMoto
Links and Resources
- Nelson’s LinkedIn
- Moto Nation
- Kidmoto
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Chris Prefontaine, Founder of Smart Real Estate Coach, is motivated by creating experiences that money cannot buy.
We learn about Chris's journey from the 2008 real estate crash to establishing Smart Real Estate Coach in 2014. He developed an interactive model for creative property deals without banks, cash, or credit, enabling students to work with them across North America.
Chris's frameworks include owner financing, lease purchases, and subject-to deals, helping students avoid financial exposure while achieving their goals. He also shares his LeadGen Stacking framework, which involves swapping email lists, writing books, building a YouTube presence, and hosting events. This diversified approach ensures a steady stream of leads and business growth.
(0:28) Chris’s entrepreneurial journey
(7:58) The LeadGen Stacking Framework
(14:52) Future of Smart Real Estate Coach
(19:05) Find out more about Chris
Links and Resources
- Chris’s LinkedIn
- Smart Real Estate Coach
- QLS Live
- Free copies of Real Estate On Your Terms and Deal Structure Overtime by Chris Prefontaine
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Dr. Don Thomas, Strategy Expert, is driven by the idea that there's always something better we can do strategically. His approach includes strategy from pirates to enhance traditional methods.
We learn about his journey from software developer to strategic leadership expert, emphasizing vision-driven leadership. Don highlights the importance of casting a vision and making it attainable. He also addresses multi-generational communication in the workplace, offering insights from his Cross-Generational Communication Framework. Additionally, he shares unique leadership lessons inspired by historical pirates from his book, The Pirate's Guide to Strategic Leadership.
(0:39) Don’s journey to becoming a strategy expert
(2:54) What is strategic leadership?
(10:10) The Cross-Generational Communication Framework
(20:20) Pirates as strategists
(24:32) Find out more about Don
Links and Resources
- Don’s LinkedIn
- The Pirate's Guide to Strategic Leadership by Dr. Don Thomas
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Barry LaBov, owner of LaBov and Beyond Marketing, is driven by his passion for originality and helping people achieve their potential.
From rock musician to marketing entrepreneur, Barry's journey is marked by creativity and perseverance. He founded his marketing firm to channel his love for creativity into helping companies discover their unique strengths. Barry's five-step brand re-engineering process—Brand Assessment, Technical Immersion, Design Brand Strategy, Execute, and Celebrate & Launch—focuses on leveraging a company's inherent qualities.
His book, The Power of Differentiation, aims to inspire companies to win hearts, minds, and market share by engaging their people meaningfully.
(0:38) Rock musician to entrepreneur
(5:43) The Brand Reengineering Framework
(9:50) What makes your business unique
(19:24) The Power of Differentiation
(22:00) What’s next for Barry
Links and Resources
- Barry’s LinkedIn
- LaBov & Beyond Marketing
- The Power of Differentiation by Barry LaBov
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Shirley Collier, President of Scale2Market LLC, is fueled by a passion to help businesses succeed in the federal marketplace.
We learn about Shirley's journey and her powerful DAVIE framework (Data Analysis Value Investment Execute and Evaluate) that guides companies through the complexities of federal contracting. She explains how to leverage data, build relationships, and strategically position businesses to win lucrative government contracts. She also emphasizes the importance of innovation and staying competitive to maintain a foothold in the federal market.
(0:34) Why work with the federal market
(1:23) The DAVIE Framework
(7:17) Entering the market
(15:56) Traps you should avoid and how to overcome them
(23:23) More about Shirley
Links and Resources
- Shirley’s LinkedIn
- Scale2Market LLC
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
John Hewitt, CEO of Loyalty Brands, is driven by a deep commitment to changing lives through entrepreneurship, fueled by his passion for helping others and belief in the power of business to create opportunities.
We learn about John's journey from developing the first tax software with his father to building billion-dollar companies like Jackson Hewitt Tax Service and Liberty Tax.
John explains his "Kill CEO Disease" framework, which consists of three steps: Engage, Listen, and Improve.
(0:27) John’s entrepreneurial journey from tax to franchise
(10:33) The “Kill CEO Disease" Framework
(19:06) John’s principal message for iCompete
(21:23) John’s excitement as an entrepreneur
(23:26) Find out more about John
Links and Resources
- John’s LinkedIn
- Loyalty Brands
- iCompete by John Hewitt
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Chad Jenkins, President and CEO of SeedSpark, is motivated by natural curiosity and a passion for creating exponential value through unconventional thinking and collaboration. We learn about Chad's journey from serial entrepreneur to the head of SeedSpark, where he helps businesses grow exponentially. Chad explains his Before/After Collaboration Framework, which involves identifying services that create a need for your product and shares his "Just Add a Zero" philosophy, emphasizing the importance of rethinking and maximizing existing resources to achieve exponential growth.
(0:37) From building your businesses to building partnerships
(9:33) The Before/After Collaboration Framework
(25:28) Significance of adding a zero
(31:31) Learn more about Chad
Links and Resources
- Chad’s LinkedIn
- SeedSpark
- Chad T. Jenkins
- Just Add A Zero by Chad Jenkins
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Robert Brill, CEO of Brill Media, is driven by a passion for business growth and personal development. His entrepreneurial journey is fueled by a desire for success and resilience, inspired by his modest upbringing, relentless drive to improve, and love for the "game" of business.
We learn about Robert's journey from four failed businesses to founding Brill Media, where he excels in media buying and digital advertising. Robert thoroughly explains his two versions of the Meta Framework, which involves mining niche problem statements, testing to find the most relevant ones, turning them into solutions, and combining them with matching imagery. He also highlights the integration of AI to enhance marketing effectiveness and the importance of persistent testing and adaptation in advertising strategies.
(00:29) Robert’s entrepreneurial journey to founding a 3x Fortune 5000 business
(06:55) The Meta Framework and how it works
(18:08) Optimizing AI for marketing effectiveness
(21:24) Find out more about Robert
Links and Resources
- Robert’s LinkedIn
- Brill Media
- Brill Media’s Copywriter Pro
- Download Steve's new book at: https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Joe Camberato’s Why is to simplify the financing process for entrepreneurs. He was inspired by the struggles he witnessed self-employed clients face with traditional banks, to launch National Business Capital, a platform that connects business owners with non-bank lenders to foster sustainable growth.
Joe outlines the National Business Capital Framework, which involves understanding client needs, reverse-engineering the right lending partner, and building a mutually efficient lending process.
(0:29) Joe’s founding story for National Business Capital
(5:22) The National Business Capital Framework
(12:34) Pandemic’s effect to the private financing market
(16:12) Biggest blind spots
(20:56) The most exciting thing Joe is working on
(21:54) Learn more about Joe
Links and Resources
- Joe’s LinkedIn
- National Business Capital
- Grow By Joe YouTube Channel
- Download Steve's new book at: https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Ryan Atkinson is the CEO and Co-Founder of Spacebar Visuals, that specializes in animated videos that make your sales funnel convert better.
We discuss how Ryan co-founded Spacebar Visuals, a video marketing agency, by utilizing his background and interest in media. He also explains the importance of high-quality video content for sales funnels and shares a strategy used to personalize outreach and enhance sales efforts, which helped grow Spacebar Visuals to a six-figure business.
(0:40) Ryan’s entrepreneurial journey to Spacebar Visuals
(6:46) The 4 T Lead Gen Framework
(12:42) Written content to engaging animations
(20:12) Ryan’s current project
(22:23) Ways to contact Ryan
Links and Resources
- Ryan’s LinkedIn
- Spacebar Visuals
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Shauna Wekherlien is the owner of the Tax Goddess Services firm, a top 1% tax advisory firm helping small businesses with tax, accounting, and payroll duties.
We discuss Shauna's journey to becoming the Tax Goddess, inspired by her dedication to assisting small businesses with tax strategies. She explains the "aggression scale" in tax planning, highlighting the importance of aligning strategies with clients' risk tolerance and sharing innovative tax deductions to help business owners maximize savings and achieve financial success.
(0:41) The Tax Goddess’s Origin Story
(3:31) The Aggression Scale and its degrees
(7:35) The Tax Write-Off Framework
(19:58) What Shauna is working on..
(27:03) Learn more about the Tax Goddess
Links and Resources
- Shauna’s LinkedIn
- Tax Goddess Business Services
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Colin Sanburg, the Founder and Visionary of FinElevate, a company that works with small business owners and their leadership teams to drive the business to new heights of profitability.
We discuss Colin's journey founding FinElevate, driven by his experience overcoming financial challenges as an entrepreneur, eventually creating a framework to optimize growth, profit, and cash flow with the ultimate goal of empowering entrepreneurs to create valuable, trophy businesses.
(1:10) Colin’s path to FinElevate
(3:50) The Financial Score and its four aspects of financial success
(9:03) Optimizing your business’s performance
(22:43) What Colin is working on..
(24:13) Find out more about Colin
Links and Resources
- Colin’s LinkedIn
- FinElevate
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Jackson Calame, the Founder of First Class Business, helping visionary entrepreneurs build businesses by bridging their gaps in marketing, sales, and fulfillment.
We explore Jackson's journey founding First Class Business, driven by his vision to integrate marketing, sales, and fulfillment. He shares frameworks for boosting engagement and conversion, highlighting the significance of fostering championship teams with defined career paths.
(0:29) Jackson’s entrepreneurial journey to First Class Business
(1:41) Framework for a video sales letter
(12:13) The Power Marketing Funnel
(18:57) Building a championship team
(24:38) Learn more about Jackson’s work
Links and Resources
- Jackson’s LinkedIn
- First Class Business
- Vision Pros Live by First Class Business
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Dustin Bogle, the CEO of Gym Reinforcements, a company that helps gym owners hire, recruit, and train high-level virtual assistants so that gyms can create the impact they were destined to make.
We explore how Dustin's system supports gym and business owners, focusing on strategic lead nurturing with platforms like GoHighLevel, while also offering advice on recruiting skilled virtual assistants in the Philippines and optimizing online ads for engagement.
(0:38) Dustin's entrepreneurial journey
(3:25) The Fortune Follow-Up System
(12:46) Finding sales talent in the Philippines
(20:36) Utilizing GoHighLevel for leads
(23:23) What Dustin is working on now
Links and Resources
- Dustin’s LinkedIn
- Free Call With Dustin
- Dustin’s Book: Reinforce Your Gym
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Jaime Nacach, the Founder and CEO of Virtual Latinos, the first platform focused on connecting entrepreneurs, teams and agencies from the US, Canada, and the world with virtual assistants and virtual marketers from Latin America.
We discuss outsourcing, automation, and business growth with Jaime, who sheds light on tapping into Latin American talent and leveraging automation tools like Zapier. He highlights the potential for small businesses to enhance competitiveness and foster growth in the evolving global workforce landscape.
(0:31) Jaime’s journey into the VA industry
(4:54) Global workforce landscape
(9:16) Business Automation Framework with Zapier
(19:37) Latinos as virtual assistants
(23:36) The most exciting stuff that Jaime is working on
(27:17) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Jaime’s LinkedIn
- Virtual Latinos
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
- Management Blueprint Podcast on YouTube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
Scott Ritzheimer, the Founder and CEO of Scale Architects, a company that helps founders and leaders design and build scalable organizations that achieve predictable success.
We explore the crucial steps for founders transitioning to CEOs and scaling their businesses effectively, highlighting the shift from making policy decisions to focusing on building a strong executive team and emphasizing strategic leadership over day-to-day operations.
(0:29) Scott’s journey to founding Scale Architects
(5:35) What is whitewater?
(12:19) Company size as a factor
(16:02) Founder to CEO Framework
(30:19) The most exciting stuff that Scott is working on
(31:27) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Scott’s LinkedIn
- Scale Architects
- Free copy of The Founder’s Evolution
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech https://stevepreda.com/business-growth-tech/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
Chris Dane, President of Hickory Global Partners, an industry-leading global alliance for corporate travel organizations and corporate travel departments.
We discuss invaluable insights into navigating the intricacies of travel operations. From crafting robust crisis management frameworks to redefining the role of travel advisors in the digital age, a compelling exploration of the evolution of the travel industry and strategies for success in a constantly evolving landscape.
(0:35) Chris’s journey into corporate travel
(3:57) Care Framework for worst-case travel scenarios
(8:59) Four areas of the Crisis Management Framework
(10:42) Future of corporate travel industry
(16:32) The most exciting stuff that Chris is working on
(20:05) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Chris’s LinkedIn
- Hickory Global Partners
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech Stevepreda.com/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/stevepreda-com/
JJ Ghatak, CEO and Co-founder of OnLoop, a habit-forming, genAI powered goals and feedback platform for high functioning teams. JJ is based in Singapore.
We explore the Collaborative Team Development Framework, its functionality, application, and potential approaches to maximize its effectiveness within the team.
(01:05) JJ's entrepreneurial journey
(05:49) Collaborative Team Development Framework
(12:07) Origin of the Clarity Score
(17:02) Approach to constructive feedback of a manager
(22:55) Aftermath of implementing JJ’s system
(26:04) The most exciting stuff that JJ is working on
(31:57) Final Question and Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- JJ’s LinkedIn
- OnLoop
- Management Blueprint Podcast on Youtube https://bit.ly/MBPodcastPlaylistYT
- Steve Preda’s books on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08XPTF4ST/allbooks
- Explore Steve Preda Business Growth tech Stevepreda.com/
- Follow video shorts of current and past episodes on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/77938145/admin/feed/posts/
Krista Crawford, who is a pre-academic, a PhD, an MBA and an SBHR, the chair of two Vistage executive peer groups in the Baltimore, Maryland region. She's an HR consultant and an adjunct instructor at Virginia Tech and Champlain College. We discuss the concept of being a "pre-academic," her Executive Presence Framework, and a shortcut to achieve PRES. Krista also shares an ethical decision-making framework for CEOs and her new initiative to mentor emerging leaders.
(01:03) Krista's entrepreneurial journey
(03:11) What is pre-academic?
(03:48) The Executive Presence Framework
(08:17) The shortcut to achieve PRES
(16:19) The ethical decision-making framework for CEOs
(19:23) Krista’s new emerging leaders group
(21:45) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Krista’s LinkedIn
- Krista’s Email
- Vistage
Jack Skeels, author of Unmanaged and the CEO of Agency Agile, a consulting firm helping agencies define a system of culture, people, process, and tools that create superior results. We discuss the Unmanagement Blueprint, its principles, and applications, alongside strategies for boosting productivity and addressing non-performing employees. He showcases the transformative impact of implementing the blueprint, emphasizing its effectiveness in achieving superior results, while also highlighting the crucial role of communication in enhancing system efficiency.
(01:00) Jack's entrepreneurial journey
(06:05) The Unmanagement Blueprint
(11:16) How to fix the non-performing employees
(16:35) Company transformation after implementing Unmanagement Blueprint
(19:35) “Communication can outperform systems.”
(26:18) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Jack’s LinkedIn
- Agency Agile
- Unmanaged: Master the Magic of Creating Empowered and Happy Organizations
Corey Jones, the CEO and co-founder of PrismWork, a culture assessment and consulting company in Texas. We discuss the Hearti Framework and strategies for improving people's skills and how to revolutionizing the workplace through HEARTI leadership, showcasing innovative approaches to enhancing organizational culture.
(00:27) Corey's entrepreneurial journey
(03:23) The Hearti Framework
(09:10) The right balance between empathy and accountability
(13:07) How to improve people's skills
(14:52) Revolutionizing the workplace through HEARTI leadership
(19:14) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Corey’s LinkedIn
- Hearti Assestement
- Prismwork
- readintentionalpower.com
Garik Tate, the co-founder and CEO of Valhalla Team, a tech product design and development company in the Philippines that is amplifying the impact of innovators around the world incorporating AI technologies. We discuss the framework for turning good systems into great ones with AI. Garik elaborates on how they utilize cutting-edge AI techniques to enhance existing systems and take them to the next level of efficiency and performance.
(01:22) Garik's entrepreneurial journey
(03:30) Framework for turning good systems into great ones with AI
(06:06) How Garik’s system works
(11:29) How to apply AI to increase or remove traffic constraints
(22:38) The most exciting stuff that Garik was working on
(26:17) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Garik’s Website
- Garik’s LinkedIn
- Valhalla.team
Robert Glazer, five times entrepreneur, six times bestselling author, keynote speaker, founder of Acceleration Partners, which is a leading global partnership marketing agency. He is also the author of the Friday Forward newsletter, read around the world by 200,000 people. We discuss about his Capacity Building Framework, his approach to choosing projects, and the purpose of the Friday Forward Newsletter, culminating in Robert next-level ventures focusing on core values and growth in business.
(00:35) Robert's entrepreneurial journey
(01:44) Partnership Marketing Agency
(4:25 ) The Capacity Building Framework
(10:32) How does Robert decide which projects or companies to invest his time in
(11:52) The purpose of Friday Forward Newsletter
(18:16) Robert Glazer's Next-Level Ventures: Unveiling Core Values and Growth in Business
(22:02) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Robert’s LinkedIn
- Robert’s Website
- Accelaration Partners
Shane Spraggs, the CEO of Virtira, a consulting company focused on accelerating sales and enabling channel partners and remote teams. Shane is also the author of The Power of Remote. We discuss about the 3 components of Trust, the Relatedness framework, how to facilitate an event in a remote setup, the collaborative journal and Shane’s goal for writing his book “The Power of Remote.”
(01:16) Shane's entrepreneurial journey
(06:36) The 3 components of Trust
(10:48) The Relatedness framework.
(16:43) How to facilitate an event in a remote setup
(22:34) The collaborative journal.
(28:40) Shane’s goal for writing The Power of Remote
(30:01) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Shane’s LinkedIn
- Virtira
Darryl Lyons, the co-founder and CEO of San Antonio, Texas-based Pax Financial Group, a business that is passionate about helping others live the life of their dreams. We discuss about the C12 Strategic Planning Blueprint, how the Christian worldview can help businesses and the right way of thinking about succession planning.
(00:00) Darryl's entrepreneurial journey
(03:13) The hard beginnings taught Darryl valuable lessons that contributed to his success.
(05:34) The C12 Strategic Planning Blueprint
(08:07) How the Christian worldview can help businesses.
(17:09) The right way of thinking about succession planning
(21:43) The right frame of mind for a business owner to transition successfullly
(27:12) What does C12 do?
(29:03) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Darryl’s LinkedIn
- Pax Financial Group
Tim Calise, the managing member of Koko Fit Club, a fitness technology company and the founder of Acote Consulting that partners with and invests in the owners of sub $3 million recurring revenue service businesses. We discuss about the Product to Profit framework, why lead magnets don’t always work and the process for building an MVP for a service business.
(00:40) Tim's entrepreneurial journey
(06:10) The Product to Profit Framework
(09:19) Why lead magnets don’t always work?
(16:57) The process for building an MVP for a service business.
(31:30) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Tim’s LinkedIn
- Koko Fit Club
Vivek Nigam, the founder and CEO of BeRemote LLC, which promotes products that help break down cultural barriers, level the social playing field, support inclusion in a hybrid work setting, and provide a better platform for idea sharing. We discuss the five tactics you can employ to improve team participation, the role of AI in building a great remote business and BeRemote future plans.
(00:00) Vivek's entrepreneurial journey
(04:21) Tactics you can employ to improve team participation
(22:15) The role of AI in building a great remote business
(24:40) BeRemote future plans
(29:45) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Vivek’s LinkedIn
- BeRemote - ReTeam - Remote First, Hybrid Workplace
Dan Brownsher, founder and CEO of ChannelKey, a full-service channel management marketplace agency specialized in increasing sales for retail brands on Amazon and other digital marketplaces. We discuss about the Remote Recurring Service Business Framework, how Amazon build its original flywheel, and the good ways to reduce churn on a service business.
[00:00] Dan's entrepreneurial journey
[09:34] Remote Recurring Service Business Framework
[17:04] How Amazon built its original flywheel.
[19:01] How to engineer your flywheel in your remote service business.
[21:25] Good ways to reduce churn on a service business
[23:37] Dan’s brand of building great culture
[25:36] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Dan’s LinkedIn
- ChannelKey LinkedIn
John St. Pierre the co-founder and chairman of Brand Point Services and multi-site facility maintenance and remodeling contractor. He's also the author of the $100 Million Journey and the co-host of the Entrepreneurs United podcast. We discuss about how to align company core values with personal ones, the Build Your Ideal Business Framework and the seven principles for entrepreneurial success.
[00:00] John's entrepreneurial journey
[02:59] How to align company core values with personal ones.
[06:45] The Build Your Ideal Business Framework
[09:01] Seven Principles for Entrepreneurial Success.
[23:22] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- John’s LinkedIn
- BrandPoint Services Website
- $100M Journey: Your Guide To Growing The Business Of Your Dreams Without Going Off The Cliff
Vitalii Romachenko, CEO and co-founder of Elai.io, a company that generates learning and development video content with real human narrators from just text. We discuss about Elai.io services, how to promote business using outbound messaging through LinkedIn and Email, the ideal content that can be amplified through AI-driven voices and Who are ideally suited to benefit from Elai.io’s services.
(0:00) Vitalii's entrepreneurial journey
(06:30) How does Elai.io work?
(8:42) How to promote your business using outbound messaging through LinkedIn and Email?
(15:16) The ideal content that can be amplified through AI-driven voices.
(18:02) Who are ideally suited to benefit from Elai.io’s services.
(24:56) Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Vitalii’s LinkedIn
- Elai.io - your go-to automated AI video generation platform
Greg Alexander, the founder of Collective54, the mastermind community for boutique professional services firms. We discuss about the secrets of a good mastermind group, the Boutique Framework, steps to productizing a service and how to benchmark yourself as a professional service firm.
[00:00] Greg's entrepreneurial journey
[02:37] The secrets of a good mastermind group
[04:29] The Boutique Framework
[08:18] Steps to productizing a service
[12:51] The golden era for professional service firms
[16:12] How to benchmark yourself as a professional service firm
[21:13] The importance of staff utilization
[22:08] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Greg’s LinkedIn
- Collective54.com
- The Boutique: How To Start, Scale, And Sell A Professional Services Firm By Greg Alexander
Will Blake, the owner of Vesta Foundation Solutions, a foundation repair and crawl space waterproofing company in Oklahoma City and Northwest Arkansas. We discuss about the crucial how to cultivate a great culture, the 5 Summits Framework, characteristics of good leadership, Gen Z employees' pros and cons, and the future of the Foundation Repair industry.
[00:00] Will's entrepreneurial journey
[06:30] How to build a great culture
[08:42] The 5 Summits Framework
[15:16] What does good leadership look like?
[18:02] The way different generations communicate with each other
[20:00] The strengths and weaknesses of Gen Z employees
[24:25] Where is the Foundation Repair industry is going?
[27:41] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Will’s Website
- Vestafoundationsolutions.com
Sharehk Shaikh, the founder of CleverX, the audience discovery platform for market and product research teams, and the co-founder of Reflow AI, a company that provides AI agents to build and run your HR tasks and workflows. We discuss about the importance of understanding customer needs and building a complete solution, the Create Familiarity Framework, the MVP fallacy and the vision for Reflow AI
[00:00] Sharekh's entrepreneurial journey
[02:40] Importance of creating a product that solves a problem
[09:07] Sharekh’s Create Familiarity Framework
[12:04] How can startups effectively build awareness and familiarity for their products?
[19:15] Understanding Customer Pain: The Key to Startup Success
[20:54] Sharekh’s reservation about lean startup and MVP’s
[23:29] MUP versus MVP
[25:02] Vision of Reflow AI
[26:34] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
-
- Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
- Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
- Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
- Sharekh’s LinkedIn
- Cleverx.com
- Reflow.ai
Sean Campbell is the CEO of Cascade Insights, a competitive intelligence and market research firm for B2B technology companies. We discuss the benefits of niching down, what it takes to manage remote teams successfully, and the 3 things all your clients expect from your business.
Timestamps
[00:00] Sean's entrepreneurial journey
[06:35] The Default to Narrow Management Blueprint
[09:00] How to define the boundaries of everything you sell
[13:17] The benefits of niching down
[15:20] Ways to narrow your market and find your niche
[17:12] Why you need to go deeper and not wider in your business
[20:08] The 3 things all your clients expect from your business
[22:36] The pros and cons of building a remote business
[27:40] What it takes to manage remote teams effectively
[30:34] The one skill every remote employee must have
[32:10] How to build a culture where it's okay to say "I don't know"
[36:40] The importance of regular check-ins with your team
[40:20] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Sean's LinkedIn
Cascadeinsights.com
Sean's email: Sean@Cascadeinsights.com
Brian Jue is the COO of Stony Hill Advisors, a full-service brokerage firm connecting sellers of privately owned businesses with qualified buyers. We discuss the foundations of a productive networking group, how to build your ideal life after selling your business, and the friction points to expect when buying or selling a business.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[04:40] Brian proving doubters wrong
[07:55] The recipe for building a solid networking group
[11:22] Why it makes sense to have many connections on LinkedIn
[15:10] How to build a networking group from scratch
[17:05] Practical ways to cultivate a productive networking group
[20:30] How to develop strong connections in a networking group
[22:49] How investment banking is evolving for small to medium-sized businesses
[27:52] The most challenging part of being a business advisor
[29:50] Friction points when buying or selling a business
[32:17] Building your ideal life after selling a business
[37:30] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Brian’s LinkedIn
Thestonyhillgroup.com
Text Brian via: (917) 382-0990
Kyle Geers is the CEO and Co-Founder of Zeroed-In Consulting, an accounting firm that strives to ease the pain points within a business through breakthrough technologies and continuous innovation. We discuss the foundations of a strong business partnership, the things you must do before entering a 50-50 partnership, and how AI is disrupting accounting and finance consulting.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[01:20] Kyle's entrepreneurial journey
[04:04] How to divide and conquer a 50-50 partnership
[06:32] Is a 50-50 partnership right for you?
[09:00] Ways to ensure all your partnerships succeed
[10:51] What Kyle learned in the first few years of being in a partnership
[12:34] Things you must do to maintain a strong business partnership
[14:58] How technology is impacting accounting and finance consulting
[19:40] Where to start with better accounting systems
[22:40] What to expect from working with Zeroed-In Consulting
[24:20] The role of AI in finance and accounting
[27:40] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Kyle's LinkedIn
Kyle's email: Kyle@Zeroed-inconsulting.com
Zeroed-inconsulting.com
Ari Tulla is a serial entrepreneur and the CEO of Elo Health, an AI personalization engine delivering the exact nutrients to live better. We discuss practical ways to future-proof your startup, the benefits of starting small, and the 3 things every startup must do to succeed.
Timestamps
[00:34] Ari's entrepreneurial journey
[04:50] Elo Health and what they do
[07:34] The 3 things every startup company must do to succeed
[10:49] The benefits of starting small
[13:34] How to know it's the right time to implement your idea
[19:00] Creative ways to test your market
[24:10] Marketing is all about building funnels
[26:27] How to continuously optimize your funnels
[29:36] How to connect with Ari and Elo Health
[33:24] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Ari's LinkedIn
Elo.health
Doug Lennick is a best-selling author, CEO, and Co-Founder of Think2perform, an agency specializing in performance development for individuals and teams. We discuss effective tips for improving self-awareness, ways to become a top performer in all aspects of your life, and how to uncover your ideal self.
Timestamps
[00:34] Doug’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:30] Why self-awareness is crucial for top performance
[06:36] The game of life is largely about personal growth
[09:56] Navigating the good and the bad of everyday life
[12:35] The three mindsets you need to become a success
[13:52] The Freeze Game and why it’s so effective
[16:43] Learning to pay attention
[21:52] The true definition of leadership
[23:28] How reflecting can improve your life
[26:16] How to reframe any situation
[27:47] Ways to become better at decision-making
[32:27] Don’t wait for someone else to fix it
[36:11] What are your values? - Deciding what's important in life
[41:55] How to connect with Doug Lennick
[43:03] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Doug’s LinkedIn
think2perform | Apply Your Values to Drive Leadership, Growth, and Teamwork
Don't Wait For Someone Else to Fix It: 8 Essentials to Enhance Your Leadership Impact at Work, Home, and Anywhere Else That Needs You by Doug Lennick and Chuck Wachendorfer
Stolen Focus: Why You Can't Pay Attention—and How to Think Deeply Again by Johann Hari
One Decision Away: Key Principles To Create What You Want in Life and Work by Paula Melo Doroff
Neuroscience for Leadership: Harnessing the Brain Gain Advantage (The Neuroscience of Business by T. Swart, Kitty Chisholm Paul Brown
Jason Kruger is the President and Founder of Signature Analytics, an accounting firm providing outsourced accounting and strategic financial solutions to mid-sized companies who need more clarity from their financial data. We discuss the best way to get the most out of your finance data, how to uncover your business’ profit drivers, and the future of AI in finance.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[03:57] The foundation of a strong finance function
[05:40] Why every business needs an efficient finance department
[08:39] How to uncover the profit drivers in your business
[12:37] How to get the most out of your people, processes, and technology
[17:55] Power BI and why it’s so effective
[20:32] AI in the finance world
[24:09] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Jason’s LinkedIn
Jason’s email: JKruger@signatureanalytics.com
Outsourced Accounting & CFO Services - Signature Analytics
Ben Johnson is the CEO and Founder of Particle41, a global software consultancy that offers end-to-end product development services. We discuss ways to ensure you never get offended, why extreme ownership is crucial for business success, and the benefits of using private AI.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[02:32] Management Blueprint: The How to Never Be Offended Framework
[06:01] Drop the victim mindset and take responsibility
[09:39] How to effectively use power reframe questions
[11:06] How to turn every situation into something positive
[13:13] The concept of extreme ownership
[15:42] How to ensure all your activities have positive outcomes
[18:21] What it means to build a business in the cloud
[21:35] Ways to get to continuous releases faster
[23:07] Journey toward an AI-driven economy
[28:13] All you need to know about private AI
[32:34] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Ben’s LinkedIn
Ben’s Email address: Ben@particle41.com
Get Your Next Technology Project to Market with Particle41
Scott Absher is the Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer at ShiftPixy, a next-gen gig economy platform revolutionizing today’s shift workforce. We discuss the future of the shift economy, how to use AI to manage your workforce, and ways to get an endless supply of shift workers.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[00:50] Scott's entrepreneurial journey
[04:20] The Load Balancing Framework
[06:45] How ShiftPixy deploys shift workers successfully
[09:10] How to use AI to manage your workers
[11:10] The psychographic of part-time workers in the shift economy
[13:05] The type of companies that use ShiftPixy
[15:01] How to set up the Load Balancing framework
[17:33] Understanding the demand and supply of shift workers
[19:39] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Scott’s LinkedIn
Shiftpixy.com
Joel Stevenson is the CEO of Yesware, a sales engagement software that helps high-performing sales teams do meaningful email outreach at scale. We discuss the future of sales outreach, ways salespeople can become more productive, and the fastest way to drive awareness for your products.
Timestamps
[00:00] Joel's entrepreneurial journey
[02:48] Joel's framework for customer acquisition
[06:43] The most important metric to track in your sales process
[08:34] Sales forecasting best practices
[09:47] Tips to help you reduce customer churn
[13:38] How does Yesware work?
[14:55] How to optimize your sales process over time
[17:09] The future of sales outreach
[20:40] How to get the most out of sales and marketing
[22:41] The fastest way to drive awareness for your products
[24:35] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Joel's LinkedIn
Yesware.com
Free Sales Content
The Hard Sell Podcast
Patrick Esposito is the CEO and Founder of Initiative Labs. He is also the President and Co-Founder of ACME General Corp, a company focused on driving rapid innovation in the national security space. We break down the four steps in the structure of success framework, how to achieve continuous success in your business, and the benefits of having an agile business process.
Timestamps
[00:40] Patrick's entrepreneurial journey
[03:15] What is the Structure of Success framework?
[05:46] The four-step is the success framework
[10:27] Understand that success is a continuous process
[12:28] The benefits of having an agile process
[14:45] The eight decision categories
[16:56] Why business owners dislike the term governance
[21:03] Business owners navigating disasters and succession planning
[22:42] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Patrick's LinkedIn
The Structure of Success: A Framework to Help Build Your Business Better by Patrick Esposito
Patrick's LinkedIn
Home - Initiative Labs
ACME General Corp
Ricky Marton is the Founder & CEO of Koru, an easy-to-use software service that helps companies build a balanced and diversified impact portfolio through strategic partnerships. We discuss how you can become profitable by doing good in society, why you need to focus on ESG as a small business, and how businesses can become a catalyst for societal change.
Timestamps
[00:40] Ricky's entrepreneurial journey
[01:41] The benefits of focusing on ESG as a small business
[02:53] How ESG impacts talent acquisition
[05:20] Do customers really care about ESG?
[07:32] Why ESG performance is important for investors
[11:17] Ways your company will benefit from supporting the community
[12:52] Impactful ESG use cases in business
[16:28] Businesses as a catalyst for societal change
[18:14] Who is a Private Impact Expert?
[10:50] How to take advantage of ESG opportunities
[23:17] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Ricky's LinkedIn
Ricky's website - www.koru.global
Noah Graff is a Machinery Dealer, Vice President, and Treasure Hunter at Graff-Pinkert & Co, a family-owned, 75-year-old firm dedicated to selling great machine tools to the turned parts industry. We discuss why luck is all about connecting the dots, how to become a serendipity magnet, and why weird deals make the most money.
Timestamps
[00:57] Noah's entrepreneurial journey
[04:26] Noah's management blueprint
[07:41] What are serendipity bombs?
[10:01] The most important aspect of being lucky
[14:22] Why luck is all about connecting the dots
[20:40] The type of deals that make the most money
[22:02] What the Serendipity Journal is all about
[24:50] How to become a serendipity magnet
[26:36] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Noah's LinkedIn
Graffpinkert.com
The Serendipity Mindset: The Art and Science of Creating Good Luck by Christian Busch
James Ferrara is the Co-Founder and President of InteleTravel, the largest travel agency in the world measured by number of agents. We discuss simple ways to inspire the extraordinary in your team members, why you must fully understand your customer's needs, and how to turn business challenges into opportunities.
Timestamps
[00:45] James' entrepreneurial journey
[04:01] What it's like working with Brian Tracy
[05:46] Turning challenges into opportunities
[09:38] How to get the most out of your team
[12:41] What it means to meet the market where it is
[13:54] The benefits of understanding customer needs
[16:00] The Inspire Extraordinary Framework
[19:15] Leaders: Set the vision and get out of the way
[20:36] How to get the most out of technology in your business
[23:46] Experience leading 90,000+ agents
[28:19] Advice on how to become a better CEO
[31:20] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Inteletravel.com
James on LinkedIn
James on Instagram
The No Tourist Allowed Podcast
The Psychology of Selling: Increase Your Sales Faster and Easier Than You Ever Thought Possible by Brian Tracy
Ed Delia is the President of Delia Associates, a branding, marketing, and PR agency focused on B2B businesses in manufacturing, technology, engineering, pharmaceutical, and industrial services. We discuss the importance of an authentic brand-audience connection, how to uncover your ideal target market, and the easiest way to manufacture your brand from scratch.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[00:35] Ed's entrepreneurial journey
[03:18] The difference between pre and post-internet branding
[05:27] How to realistically and sustainably build your brand
[07:01] The 4Ds to building a brand from scratch
[10:07] Target market and how to uncover yours
[11:52] How to build an authentic brand personality
[14:40] Ways to discover your brand personality
[17:08] Brand-audience connection and why it's important
[20:44] Why brand building is crucial for any sized company
[23:46] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Ed's LinkedIn
Delianet.com
Webinar on Growing Your B2B Organization
Austin Netzley is an author, investor, and business growth advisor. He is also the Founder and CEO of 2X, where he helps entrepreneurs implement proven systems and strategies to reclaim their time, improve their operations, and scale predictably. We discuss the foundations of the two-week vacation test, how to have complete control of your time as an entrepreneur, and the easiest way to build a thriving, self-managing business.
Timestamps
[00:00] Introduction
[00:45] Austin's entrepreneurial journey
[02:44] Austin's big desire to leave a dent in the world
[04:34] The Two-Week Vacation Test
[06:58] How to build a self-managing business
[09:50] The done by 10:30 framework
[11:38] Why you need to create a personalized morning routine
[14:55] How to get your team to thrive without you
[16:30] Leave your business and take a mini vacation
[18:47] The goal is to have complete control of your time
[20:45] Is the 4-hour work week really possible?
[22:14] What it's like working with remote employees
[24:40] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Steve on LinkedIn
Austin's website - https://2x.co/
Austin on Instagram
The 2-Week Vacation Test: How To Build A Wildly Successful Business That Can Run & Thrive Without You by Austin Netzley
From 6 To 7 Figures: The Proven Playbook To Get More Traction, Free Up 20 Hours Per Week, And Scale Past $1M In Revenue! by Austin Netzley
Seth Farbman is the Chairman and President of VStock Transfer, a stock transfer agent providing best-in-class services combined with a cost-savings structure and personalized customer service. We discuss the fastest way to build your business on LinkedIn, the role of a stock transfer agency, and why you must understand your customer's needs to be successful in business.
Timestamps
[00:45] Seth's entrepreneurial journey
[03:06] Seth's experience with management blueprints
[04:34] The benefits of understanding your customer's needs
[08:15] What it means to be a stock transfer agency
[12:19] How to build a solid business on LinkedIn
[15:07] Ways to get the most out of your LinkedIn profile
[17:41] The difference between a corporate and a personal LinkedIn page
[19:16] Understanding the purpose of a corporate LinkedIn page
[21:05] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Vstocktransfer.com
Seth on LinkedIn
Seth's Email: Seth@Vstocktransfer.com
Barry Coziahr is the CEO of Stampede Branding and owner of Freetime Solutions, a virtual assistant placement agency. We discuss how to get the most out of a virtual assistant, selling your time for the right price, and how to become better at delegating tasks to VAs.
Time Stamps
[00:00] Barry's entrepreneurial journey
[05:28] The framework for delegating tasks to VAs
[07:10] Understand that your time is worth something
[08:23] Selling your time for the right price
[10:18] Who and how to hire a VA
[11:56] The right way to onboarding a virtual assistant
[14:53] The benefits of daily reporting for your VAs
[17:21] Why you need to keep training your VAs
[18:18] You can build a successful company with just VAs
[20:40] Timezone best practices when working with virtual assistants
[22:55] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Barry’s LinkedIn
Freetime.solutions
Barry’s Email - Barry@freetime.solutions
Download The How VAs Can Help You Ebook
Daniel Todd is the CEO and Founder of Influence Mobile, a company that builds products that reward people for everyday activities. We discuss ways to apply radical transparency to your business, how to become more industrious as an entrepreneur, and the benefits of being more transparent with your team.
Time Stamps
[00:55] Daniel's entrepreneurial journey
[03:18] How to navigate the dark times in your business
[05:47] Understanding the Transparency Framework
[10:01] Using transparency to manage risk in your business
[12:14] Why you shouldn’t take everybody’s advice
[15:32] Learned helplessness versus learned industriousness
[18:35] The power of focusing on solutions
[23:21] How transparent should you be with your team?
[26:40] The long-term benefits of being transparent in your business
[30:06] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Daniel’s LinkedIn
Influencemobile.com
The Great Depression: America 1929-1941 by Robert S. McElvaine
David CM Carter is the Chairman & Founder of Entelechy Academy Limited, the world's 1st learning experience specializing in Character Qualities to enhance all skills. We discuss how character gives a team superpowers, the Be-Do-Become framework, and how long it takes to become the best version of yourself.
Time Stamps
[00:55] Jay's entrepreneurial journey
[04:48] Entelechy and what they're about
[06:18] The Be-Do-Become framework
[08:40] Understand that everybody can become brilliant
[11:27] The process of developing a character quality
[14:05] How to become the best version of yourself
[15:08] How long it takes to improve a character quality
[18:09] Becoming good in all 54 character qualities
[20:50] The energy it takes to sustain high performance
[25:09] What to expect from Entelechy's Discover program
[30:05] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
David's LinkedIn
Entelechy on LinkedIn
Entelechy Academy
Jay Aigner is the CEO of JDAQA, LLC, a scalable team of experienced software quality assurance professionals that helps software development teams remove the stress of testing. We discuss the project delivery framework, ways to remove yourself from the business process, and why software testing is important.
Time Stamps
[00:34] Jay’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:25] Difference between contractors in Mexico and the Philippines
[03:53] Communication among contractors
[05:27] The Project Delivery Framework
[07:04] How to remove yourself from the business process
[10:42] The biggest benefits of delegating
[13:13] Software testing and why it’s important
[17:57] How to automate software testing
[21:08] The use of AI in software testing
[24:02] Quality assurance in all software
[27:33] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Jay’s LinkedIn
Jdaqa.com
Jay’s email: Jay@Jdaqa.com
Vikram Raya is the CEO of Viking Capital, a multi-family real estate investment syndication firm, and Limitless MD, a firm helping MDs succeed in business and life. We discuss the four growth levers all companies must pull to succeed, the benefits of doubling down on your zone of genius, and what makes people unsuccessful.
Time Stamps
[00:48] Vikram's entrepreneurial journey
[02:30] Understand that fulfilment is as important as success
[05:08] Vikram's shift from medicine to entrepreneurship
[08:25] How to uncover and double down on your zone of genius
[10:30] The art of the impossible
[12:18] What makes people unsuccessful
[16:30] Simultaneous versus sequential success
[18:28] How to pull on growth levers in your business
[20:58] What you need to build a million-dollar company
[24:12] The Viking Capital Business Model
[26:39] How Vikram grew his podcast to the top 2% in the world
[28:36] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Vikramraya.com
Vikram's LinkedIn
The Limitless MD Podcast
The Art of Impossible: A Peak Performance Primer by Steven Kotler
David Subar is the Founder and Managing Partner of Interna, an IT Services and Consulting company focused on making product development successful and effective. We discuss the foundation of the lean startup approach, failure as a catalyst for learning, and ways to deliver better products faster.
Time Stamps
[00:50] David’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:27] How to deliver better products faster
[04:57] Ways to make the best market bets
[07:56] How to align market bets with your business strategy
[10:37] The role of failure in learning
[13:20] How to measure results against the objective
[15:49] The consumption of new releases for B2B businesses
[17:27] The lean startup approach
[20:10] Balancing business goals with customer goals
[21:37] How to create a practical test environment for your business
[24:50] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
David’s LinkedIn
Interna.com
The Lean Startup: How Today's Entrepreneurs Use Continuous Innovation to Create Radically Successful Businesses by Eric Ries
Dr. Nima Shemirani is a Rhinoplasty and Facial Plastic Surgeon at Eos Rejuvenation - a medical office dedicated to all aspects of plastic surgery for the face. We discuss the problem with modern healthcare, how to get the most out of plastic surgery, and ways to exude positive energy in your business.
Time Stamps
[00:52] Nima’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:01] Nima’s experience with management blueprints
[03:29] The problem with modern healthcare
[06:28] How plastic surgery is transforming people’s lives
[08:43] Plastic surgery and whether it’s worth the investment?
[10:38] Leveraging social media for your business
[13:45] Custom-made plastic surgeries according to your personality
[16:20] Loyalty to truth and why it’s important
[19:14] Exude positive energy in your business
[21:45] The exciting future of plastic surgery
[23:45] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Follow Nina on Instagram and TikTok
Eosrejuvenation.com
The Experience Economy by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore
Joe Rare is the Owner and CEO of Level 9 Virtual, a first-in-class virtual assistants service provider on a mission to give business owners freedom of time and money through outsourcing. We discuss the future of work in an age of virtual assistants, the best places to find trained VAs, and how to build your own VA team.
Time Stamps
[00:55] Joe's entrepreneurial journey
[03:18] Joe's experience with management blueprints
[06:28] Is it possible to outsource your sales department?
[08:58] The benefits of knowing the personality profiles of your VAs
[11:50] The role of the Human Resource VA
[14:27] How to replace yourself in your business
[16:35] The best time to bring in a business integrator
[19:11] The pros and cons of hiring VAs from the Philipines
[22:54] Skills to look out for in a VA
[24:43] How to build your own VA team
[26:20] Tasks to delegate to prospecting virtual assistants
[28:18] Where and how to find trained VAs
[30:17] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Joe's LinkedIn
Level9virtual.com
Elliot Kallen is the Owner of Prosperity Financial Group, where he helps successful individuals, families, and businesses to build, manage, and protect their wealth. We discuss the four main steps to building wealth, the number one goal for retirees today, and what holistic wealth management is all about.
Time Stamps
[00:37] Elliot's entrepreneurial journey
[02:33] Elliot's experience with management blueprints
[06:13] How to build wealth in 4 steps
[08:56] The two main ways to distribute your wealth
[12:10] How Elliot and his team manage people's assets and money
[14:30] The number one goal for retirees today
[17:31] Elliot's plan for distributing his wealth
[20:56] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Prosperityfinancialgroup.com
Call Elliot on 510-206-1103
Contact Elliot via email - Elliot@Prosperityfinancialgroup.com
Elliot's LinkedIn
Doug Camplejohn is the Founder and CEO of Airspeed, a suite of Slack apps that help employees feel more connected and appreciated. We discuss how leaders can be more deliberate about building their culture, ways to build relationships among employees in remote settings, and how AI and automation can help facilitate and improve six key points of culture in a business.
Time Stamps
[0:43] Doug’s entrepreneurial journey
[4:11] What does it mean to have an operating system for culture?
[7:34] How COVID emphasized the need for trust among remote teams
[10:22] Automating celebrations in your organization
[11:07] Using AI to pair employees with similar interests
[12:14] A more efficient way to run meeting icebreakers
[14:04] Making intros easier for new employees
[15:13] Connect remote teams through Airspeed Maps
[16:41] Enhancing the shoutouts and recognition process
[18:36] Keeping Airspeed lightweight and sticky
[19:54] What you can expect from the future of Airspeed
[24:29] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Doug’s LinkedIn
Airspeed Website
Justin M. Nassiri is the CEO of Executive Presence, a social media service that provides a fully managed LinkedIn presence for top CEOs in a way that is authentic, efficient, and measurable. We discuss the benefits of having a CEO who is active on LinkedIn, ways to stay top of mind on LinkedIn, and why managing a personal brand is a full-time engagement.
Time Stamps
[00:44] Justin's entrepreneurial journey
[02:30] The evolution of Justin's business
[06:00] Justin's experience with management blueprints
[10:00] The best way to post on LinkedIn
[11:57] Why CEOs should rethink their social media presence
[16:55] How to monetize your executive branding efforts
[21:27] Ways to become relevant daily on LinkedIn
[22:38] Do CEOs need to become active on social media?
[26:33] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Justin's LinkedIn
Executivepresence.io
Tom Schwab is the Chief Evangelist Officer & Founder of Interview Valet, a podcast guesting marketing service helping thought leaders drive growth by leveraging other people's audiences. We discuss the power of podcast guesting, how to use podcasts as a business development tool, and ways to guest on high-quality podcasts.
Time Stamps
[00:35] Tom's entrepreneurial journey
[03:43] Tom's experience with management blueprints
[05:59] How to find podcasts to be a guest on
[08:41] How Interview Valets helps connect guests with great podcasts
[12:11] Benefits of targeting the right audience for your marketing
[13:27] Tools to help you understand your audience better
[15:57] Using podcasts as a business development tool
[20:18] Do people actually check show notes?
[21:42] Understanding video podcasting
[24:24] Podcast marketing with Interview Valet
[26:25] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Interviewvalet.com/Steve
Tom's LinkedIn
Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World by Rand Fishkin
PODCAST GUEST PROFITS: Grow your business with a targeted interview strategy by Thomas M. Schwab
Superconsumers: A Simple, Speedy, and Sustainable Path to Superior Growth by Eddie Yoon
Christian Banach is the Principal & Chief Growth Officer of Christian Banach LLC. He helps agencies land 6 and 7-figure opportunities predictably through consulting, training, and outsourced lead generation services. We discuss the benefits of mastering your top-of-funnel, ways to provide customized value to clients, and the future of communicating with prospects.
Time Stamps
[00:41] Christian's entrepreneurial journey
[04:08] The PROPEL management framework
[07:20] How to research your audience
[09:49] Why providing value is key for business success
[12:57] How to provide customized value to your clients
[15:48] When and how to contact your ideal prospects
[19:27] The number of iterations it takes to generate desired outcomes
[20:58] Examples of Christian's process at work
[25:07] Best practices for communicating with prospects
[28:30] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Christian's LinkedIn
Christianbanach.com
Manuj Aggarwal is the Founder and Chief Innovation Officer of TetraNoodle Technologies, a premier data science, and AI consulting company focused on helping SMB & SaaS companies unlock the power of data and AI. We discuss ways to effortlessly get people’s buy-in, learning to automate AI processes, and how AI can help grow your business.
Time Stamps
[00:41] Manuj's entrepreneurial journey
[03:35] Manuj’s experience with management blueprints
[05:10] How to effortlessly get people’s buy-in
[09:33] Ways to make your hiring process more effective
[11:29] AI for small to medium-sized businesses
[14:44] How to apply AI to your small business
[18:16] Is it possible to automate AI processes?
[20:43] Utilizing the multiple disciplines of AI
[22:41] What is Natural Language Processing?
[26:20] Ways AI can help grow your business
[30:32] Practical implementation of AI
[33:25] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Manuj’s LinkedIn
Manujaggarwal.com
Tetranoodle.com
Christopher Brement is the Founder and President of Bramante Homes, an employee-run custom builder that has been building quality, premium, and luxury homes since the 1980s. We discuss the secret source to building luxury homes, why people chose to customize their homes, and the cost of a fiduciary custom home builder.
Time Stamps
[00:31] Christopher’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:30] What it’s like working in the family business
[04:30] Christopher’s experience with management blueprints
[09:27] Building a production home vs custom home
[14:08] The secret source to building a custom home
[17:22] Why people build custom homes
[18:44] Special lifestyles that require special homes
[22:04] Customizing a client’s unique wants
[23:24] Clients with no-budget constraints
[24:58] Change Order when building custom homes
[26:11] The cost of a fiduciary custom home builder
[28:30] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Christopher’s LinkedIn
Bramantehomes.com
Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman
Leonard Mazur is the Co-Founder, Chairman, and CEO of Citius Pharma, a late-stage biopharma company focused on the development and commercialization of first-in-class critical care products. We discuss the benefits of investing in your professional relationships, investment opportunities in biopharma, and ways to minimize the risks of your investments.
Time Stamps
[00:42] Leonard’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:13] Leonard’s experience with management blueprints
[09:10] Investing in extremely unique opportunities
[10:30] Why believing in your product is essential for success
[12:42] Why you need to invest in your relationships
[16:15] Investing in a Biotech company
[19:02] How to minimize the risk of your investments
[22:49] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Citius Pharmaceuticals in LinkedIn
Citiuspharma.com
Allan Marshall is the CEO of Upexi Inc, a publicly listed investment platform that acquires profitable, data-driven Amazon and eCommerce brands. We discuss ways to scale your retail brand on Amazon, how to invest in an eCommerce business, and the right ingredients for launching an online brand.
Time Stamps
[00:00] Introduction
[01:00] Allan's entrepreneurial journey
[03:58] Market opportunities in the Amazon retail space
[06:07] The greatest barrier to entry for entrepreneurs
[08:32] Ingredients for starting and scaling a brand
[10:20] Uncovering a brand's potential to succeed
[13:39] Allan's experience with management blueprints
[16:15] Types of businesses worth investing in
[19:39] Upexi's attractiveness for retail business owners
[23:01] Acquisitions and engaging with entrepreneurs
[25:40] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Upexi.com
Mfon Akpan is an assistant professor of accounting at Methodist University. He is also an expert on ChatGPT and the host of the Understanding Accounting YouTube channel. We discuss using AI language models in business, how to ask smart questions on ChatGPT, and ways ChatGPT can supercharge your small business growth.
Time Stamps
[00:00] Introduction
[00:59] Mfon's journey to YouTube success
[04:30] ChatGPT and its use in business today
[07:53] Steve's experience with ChatGPT
[10:14] Understand that ChatGPT is not perfect
[12:56] The fast growth of AI language models
[16:30] The 10 by 10 rule in technology development
[20:46] How to use ChatGPT as a small business owner
[24:07] The birth of the automated AI employee
[27:27] The exciting and scary future of AI
[30:50] How to ask smart questions on ChatGPT
[32:45] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Mfon’s YouTube Channel
Mfonakpan.com
Mfon’s LinkedIn
Pete Wilkinson is the Founder and CEO of Reclaro 1-3-5, a company focused on helping ambitious CEOs and MDs accelerate their business results using beautifully presented software. We discuss ways OKRs can speed up business success, how to develop persistence in business, and ways to build an unstoppable attitude.
Time Stamps
[00:59] Pete's entrepreneurial journey
[05:10] The 1-3-5 System
[09:33] Vague focus produces vague results
[11:40] How to test your ability to be disciplined
[14:03] Why Pete chose to compete in a triathlon
[19:20] How to develop an unstoppable attitude
[20:24] Why you need a 5-year vision and a 12-month plan
[24:03] Strategy, Revenue, and Outcome
[29:10] How too much detail can negatively affect your results
[32:07] Having 15 key results for everyone in the organization
[35:37] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Pete's LinkedIn
Reclaro.com
Measure What Matters: How Google, Bono, and the Gates Foundation Rock the World with OKRs by John Doerr
Tracy Gregorio is the Chief Executive Officer of G2 Ops, Inc - an engineering firm providing clients with cost-effective, model-based cybersecurity solutions tailored to deliver capability against the emergent threats of information warfare. We discuss the evolution of cybersecurity, how to evolve your business into a product company, and the three most important priorities in every business.
Time Stamps
[00:58] Tracy's Entrepreneurial Journey
[02:43] The Birth of G2 OPS
[04:36] The Growth, Security, and Brand Framework
[10:17] Developing Products in the Cyber Security Business
[15:45] How to Create Cyber Resilience in Your Business
[19:18] How Companies Use the Digital Twin Model
[20:47] Ways to Build Profitable Strategic Partnerships
[24:51] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
G2-ops.com
Tracy's LinkedIn
Michael Episcope is the Co-CEO of Origin Investments, a private equity real estate firm designed for the needs of high-net-worth individuals, family offices, and wealth management firms. We discuss ways business owners can remove investment bias from their processes, why you need to consider investing in a fund, and how to make better decisions in business.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Michael's entrepreneurial journey
[04:25] The power of curiosity in business
[08:25] Michael's experience with management blueprints
[11:10] Innovation in business
[13:55] How to remove investment biases from your processes
[17:15] Why decision-making is essential for business success
[20:05] Individual investing versus investing in a fund
[24:24] Deals going wrong in a fund structure
[25:30] How Origin Capital is transforming the way people invest
[29:04] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Michael's LinkedIn
Origininvestments.com
Michael's email: Michael@origininvestments.com
Mike Kaeding is a residential real estate developer and the CEO of Norhart - a company focused on building exceptional apartments that create a better way for people to live. We discuss ways to attract amazing talent, the exciting future of smart homes, and how your company can put a dent in the universe.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Mike's entrepreneurial journey
[03:00] How Mike grew the family business after taking over its leadership
[06:25] Mike's experience with management blueprints
[08:14] How to find and hire the very best people
[10:30] What it takes to build a great culture
[13:21] Why you need to be as transparent as possible with your people
[15:16] Mike's mission: To drive down the cost of housing
[19:50] The exciting future of smart homes
[21:40] Eliminate unproductive friction for performance
[23:56] How everyday people can become real estate investors
[26:03] Lessons learnt from entrepreneurs building unicorn companies
[28:40] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Mike's LinkedIn
Norhart.com
Becoming a Unicorn Podcast
Will Bowden is the Founder and Owner of Grasshopper Farms - local Michigan farmers on a mission to grow and provide high-quality cannabis. We discuss the future of cannabis farming, how to dodge shiny objects, and the difference between outdoor and indoor cannabis farming.
Time Stamps
[00:40] Will's entrepreneurial journey
[03:20] Key differences between outdoor and indoor farming
[05:50] Factors that determine high-quality cannabis
[08:46] Will's experience with management blueprints
[13:35] Grasshopper farm's core competencies
[16:37] How Will manages the seasonality of his business
[21:20] There's more to cannabis than meets the eye
[25:50] Will's non-profit and what it's all about
[29:57] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Will's LinkedIn
Grasshopperfarms.com
Grasshopper farms on Instagram
Jordan Gal is the Founder of Rally, a technology solution that creates a seamless checkout experience for customers. We discuss the benefits of building a unique business, ways to create a satisfactory store experience for your clients, and how the unbundling of marketplaces is redefining ecommerce.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Jordan’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:10] Jordan’s experience with management blueprints
[06:16] Why you’re better off building a unique business
[08:40] What is unbundling and why it matters in eCommerce
[12:42] Understanding the buying process of the future
[16:13] The biggest shifts in eCommerce happening today
[19:04] Trends accelerating the future of eCommerce
[21:48] How Jordan and his team finance business growth
[23:40] How to create a novel storefront experience
[26:59] Why you need to create a friction-free buying experience
[28:32] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Jordan’s LinkedIn
Rallyon.com
The Bootstrapped Web Podcast
Connect with Jordan on Twitter
Tyler Sickmeyer is the marketing thought leader and Founder of Fidelitas, a full-service marketing and advertising agency that serves clients worldwide. He is also the owner of the San Diego Sharks Basketball Team. We discuss the easiest way to build a lead gen flywheel, the benefits of investing in a professional sports team, and how to maximize the ROI of your social media campaigns.
Time Stamps
[00:50] Tyler's entrepreneurial journey
[02:33] Tyler's experience with management blueprints
[05:47] The main cogs in the Omni-channel Flywheel
[07:28] How to maximize your social media return on attention
[10:17] Leveraging the different types of media to drive brand awareness
[12:38] Understanding the strategic partnership approach
[17:20] Tyler's first action when interacting with a new client
[19:17] Why Tyler invested in a basketball team
[23:33] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Tyler's LinkedIn
Fidelitas.co
Sharksbasketball.com
Tyler on Twitter
Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap...And Others Don't by Jim Collins
Stephen Sacks is the Founder of Funding Nav, a company focused on delivering real-time advice and execution to owners of businesses looking to raise additional liquidity. We discuss how to make your business franchisable, ways to grow your business without loans, and how to succeed by learning from other people's failures.
Time Stamps
[00:45] Stephen's entrepreneurial journey
[03:07] Why Stephen chose the franchising route
[06:13] How to know if your business is franchisable
[08:31] Factors that define a successful franchise
[11:00] Why the more successful franchises focus on IP and branding
[12:12] Key difference between a blue-collar and white-collar franchise
[14:36] How to grow your business without loans
[19:36] Fuckup Nights: The global movement where stories of failure are shared.
[24:01] Why you need to learn from other people's failure
[25:10] The #1 business opportunity in the world right now
[30:55] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Stephen's LinkedIn
Stephen's website - Fundingnav.com
Rob Hirschfeld is the Founder and CEO of The RackN Digital Rebar platform that helps organizations scale their automation efforts. We discuss ways to turn customers into raving fans, the fastest way to build trust in your business, and the pros and cons of open-source software.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Rob's entrepreneurial journey
[02:06] Understanding the meaning of the "Digital Rebar"
[04:15] The Build an Internal Champion framework
[07:06] The foundation of RackN's sales function
[08:36] How to generate interest for a new product in the market
[11:05] Ways to leverage the power of trends in marketing a business
[13:00] Pros and cons of open-source software
[16:40] Why you need to have repeatable standards for how things work
[21:38] The easiest way to build trust in your business
[22:33] Things that make an automation platform scalable
[27:08] The experience curve and ways to improve your productivity
[29:05] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Rob's LinkedIn
RackN.com
Connect with Rob via email: IamRob@rackn.com
Rob’s website - Robhirschfeld.com
Indiana Gregg is a tech entrepreneur, singer-songwriter, and the Founder & CEO of Wedo - the world's first commission-free social freelance platform. We discuss the pros and cons of being a digital nomad, easy ways to get people to switch to your platform, and how to use network effects to scale your business.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Indiana's entrepreneurial journey
[04:21] The significance of having a new social marketplace
[07:58] Indiana's experience with management blueprints
[12:22] The easiest way to convince people to switch to your solution
[14:12] How Indiana plans to use network effects to scale her platform
[15:55] Who is a digital nomad?
[19:17] Steve shares his experience with digital nomads
[21:14] The drawbacks of being a digital nomad
[24:20] How to find the best candidates on freelance social networks
[27:20] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Indiana's LinkedIn
Wedo.ai
Francis Pedraza is the CEO of Invisible Technologies, an operations-as-a-service company that works with clients to solve complex scaling challenges and optimize mind-numbing workflows. We discuss ways to delegate at the speed of thought, how to stop wasting time on routine tasks, and the drawbacks of using an outsourcing company.
Time Stamps
[00:49] Francis shares his entrepreneurial journey
[04:09] The cons of using an outsourcing company
[06:45] Understanding the basics of operations as a service
[07:58] Custom apps and process automation
[10:36] An Amazon store for business processes
[12:01] Why strategy is about getting what you want
[15:17] Lessons from Sun-Tzu's Art of War
[17:53] Why time and change are inseparable
[20:50] How to build a partnership culture in your organization
[22:53] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Francis on LinkedIn
Invisible.co
Connect with Francis via Email: Francis@invisible.co
The Art Of War by Sun Tzu
Dan Roam is a creative director, visual storyteller and bestselling author who helps businesses tell their best stories, solve complex problems, and navigate change through visual storytelling. We discuss the power of visual storytelling, how to clarify your own thinking, and ways to tell a story with ten emotional turns.
Time Stamps
[00:40] Dan's entrepreneurial journey
[04:16] The power of visualizing concepts
[06:12] Why visual storytelling is better than narrative storytelling
[10:15] How to draw pictures that describe your strategic ideas
[13:02] What is the visual decoder?
[18:47] How to draw a "When" picture
[20:30] Dan's book: The Pop-Up Pitch and what it's all about
[23:33] The history of the hero's journey
[27:21] The type of pitch that is guaranteed to work
[29:21] Telling your story with 10 emotional turns
[33:24] What makes storytelling so effective?
[35:55] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Dan's LinkedIn
Danroam.com
Napkinacademy.com
The Back of the Napkin (Expanded Edition): Solving Problems and Selling Ideas with Pictures by Dan Roam
The Pop-up Pitch: The Two-Hour Creative Sprint to the Most Persuasive Presentation of Your Life by Dan Roam
Kristi Piehl is the Founder & CEO of Media Minefield, a team of trained journalists, storytellers, social, creative, and paid experts who come alongside you to unlock the power and profit of your story. We discuss the problem with modern PR, how to become a social CEO fast, and the best way to tell your story.
Time Stamps
[00:50] Kristi's entrepreneurial journey
[02:42] Problems with PR in today's world
[04:25] Ways to measure and guarantee results in PR
[06:38] Being a social CEO and why it matters
[08:50] Data on why you need to become a social CEO
[10:10] Do's and Don'ts of having a positive online presence
[13:30] Is traditional PR still relevant in the digital age?
[16:07] The ideal way to tell your story
[18:20] How to get the most out of your PR strategy
[20:20] Social media platforms you should consider as a business leader
[23:20] Kristi's 4-day workweek initiative
[27:50] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Kristi's LinkedIn
Media-minefield.com
Check out Media Minefield on TikTok
Flip Your Script Podcast
Scott Dettman is the CEO of Avenica, an entry-level career-launching company focused on providing a better way to connect high-potential talent to meaningful career roles using data science, psychology, and empathy. We discuss ways to make entry-level hiring more efficient, the death of recruiting, and some controversial thoughts on talent.
Time Stamps
[00:35] Scott's entrepreneurial journey
[03:24] How Scott became a career-launching expert
[07:35] Difference between launching a career and recruiting
[09:44] Why recruiting is not effective in the modern age
[12:50] How to become successful early in your career
[14:50] The Bezos Blueprint and how to apply it
[17:29] Why you must be willing to fail as an entrepreneur
[19:12] Why Scott doesn't believe in talent
[22:45] How to develop your advantages
[24:13] The secret behind great companies
[27:16] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Scott's LinkedIn
Avenica.com
Avenica on Instagram
Check out Avenica on TikTok
Charles Fry is the Founder & CEO of CODE Éxitos, a product studio that helps entrepreneurs and innovators design, build, and launch digital products. We discuss the foundational aspects of building digital products, how to develop transformational digital products, and ways to successfully become an agile business.
Time Stamps
00:50 Charles' entrepreneurial journey
04:13 Code Exitos and what makes it so unique
05:11 Mindset differences between a bootstrapped company and a VC-backed company
07:33 The unique pressure of running a VC-backed company
09:00 The art of balancing family and entrepreneurship
11:45 Charles' experience with management blueprints
14:35 What it means to be an agile business
17:10 The problem with entrepreneurs being too smart for their own good
19:14 Tips on how to manage ideas
22:35 How to make digital products transformational
26:52 Why you need to eliminate complexity from your products
28:20 Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Connect with Charles via email - Carlos@codeexitos.com
Charles' LinkedIn
Codexitos.com
Brad Ebenhoeh is the CEO and Managing Partner of Accountfully, a bookkeeping and accounting firm that helps businesses grow through smart and tailored financial solutions. We discuss the basics of time marketing, why you need to be friends with your clients, and ways AI is shaping accounting businesses.
Time Stamps
[01:02] Brad's entrepreneurial journey
[04:36] Brad's experience with management blueprints
[06:33] The three tiers of marketing for professional services
[09:25] The referral engine and how to leverage other people's network
[12:25] Benefits of being close friends with your clients
[13:42] How to leverage automation and AI in business
[17:06] Ways to use AI in an accounting business
[20:00] What it's like to run a business as a married couple
[24:00] Why you need to have an aligned business partnership
[25:33] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Brad's LinkedIn
Accountfully.com
Check out Accountfully on Instagram
Sean Boyle is the Co-founder and Managing Partner at Momentum 360, a premiere marketing company offering services in 3D virtual tours, photography, and videography. We discuss ways to grow your business using virtual tours, why you need to consistently provide free but actionable content, and how to make your clients feel genuinely appreciated.
Time Stamps
[00:45] Sean's entrepreneurial journey
[03:40] How Sean got into the virtual tours space
[05:22] Why virtual tours are a very nuanced type of business
[07:20] The top 3 software in the virtual tours space
[08:35] Sean's experience with management blueprints
[10:55] How to make your clients feel genuinely appreciated
[13:28] The main concept behind virtual tours
[15:07] How Sean successfully serves clients in multiple locations
[16:39] Why business owners need to invest heavily in sales and marketing
[18:48] Understanding Google authentication of local photos
[21:07] Why you need to consistently provide free but actionable content
[24:17] Intriguing use cases of virtual tours
[26:53] Virtual tours and virtual reality
[28:55] Practical example of a virtual tour
[30:04] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Sean's LinkedIn
Sean's website
Momentumvirtualtours.com
Emma Giles is the Co-Founder & COO of SoWork, a fast-growing startup on a mission to move the world of work from the Earth to the Cloud by building virtual spaces. We discuss the future of virtual work, tips on working remotely across different time zones, and what it's like to work in a virtual office.
Time Stamps
00:42 Emma's transition from neuroscience to entrepreneurship
02:50 How SoWork evolved into a metaverse company
06:15 Emma's experience with management blueprints
09:21 The Working Genius Framework, but with a twist
10:40 The six types of working genius
12:05 How SoWork is changing virtual work as we know it
15:50 What you need to know about the metaverse and the future of work
18:24 Working in the metaverse: what virtual office life looks like
19:58 Things you should know before adopting a virtual office setup
21:50 Type of companies that could thrive in a virtual office
23:57 Technical challenges of building a metaverse-type business
26:53 The target market for metaverse virtual offices
28:56 Tips on working remotely in different time zones
31:11 Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Emma's LinkedIn
Sowork.com
The 6 Types of Working Genius: A Better Way to Understand Your Gifts, Your Frustrations, and Your Team by Patrick M. Lencioni
Dave Beeler is the President of Beeler Construction, a 3rd generation, family-owned commercial general contractor which runs projects across all industries from medical to retail to manufacturing. We discuss characteristics of successful family-owned businesses, how to grow your business using management blueprints, and ways to attract top talent and top clients.
Time Stamps
[01:00] What it takes to build a successful family-owned business
[03:00] How family-owned businesses appoint managers and leaders
[05:21] Dave’s experience with management blueprints
[08:14] Most influential tools from the Pinnacle Operating System
[11:05] The future of Beeler Construction
[16:41] How to eliminate peaks and valleys in your business growth journey
[18:50] Ways to attract and keep high-quality talent
[20:57] Why success in business is built on attracting top talent and top clients
[24:23] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Dave’s LinkedIn
Beeler Construction
Dave’s Email - Dbeeler@beelerconstruction.com
Beeler Construction on Instagram
Mark Bealin is the Founder & Principal of SearchLab, a rapidly growing internet marketing agency that helps local businesses grow through search engine optimization, paid search marketing, and website design. We discuss the evolution of SEO, how to drive sales through conference speaking, and ways to get more conference speaking opportunities.
Time Stamps
[00:42] Mark's entrepreneurial journey
[02:40] SearchLab's unique sales framework
[05:22] Proven strategy to drive sales using conferences
[07:55] How Mark gets numerous opportunities to speak at events
[10:54] The growth and evolution of SEO
[15:37] Factors that influence a successful pay-per-click campaign
[17:34] What is a good enough return on ad spend?
[19:31] The types of businesses that work well with SEO
[21:37] Understanding how consumers research and buy products
[24:12] Areas SEO struggles to drive results
[25:08] The misconceptions about how people search online
[27:09] Why and how Mark started his podcast Suds & Search
[29:55] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Mark's LinkedIn
Suds & Search podcast
Searchlabdigital.com
Aki Balogh is the co-founder and President of MaketMuse and the CEO of DLC.link, a platform that lets users lock their Bitcoin in escrow, supply Bitcoin as collateral, and earn a yield while maintaining full ownership. We discuss ways to leverage your Bitcoin to earn a yield, what a wider crypto adoption means for other currencies, and the basics of Bitcoin smart contracts.
Time Stamps
[00:58] Aki's entrepreneurial journey
[03:07] Why Aki went down the crypto path
[06:30] The current state of the crypto space
[10:28] Do we really need all these cryptocurrencies?
[13:10] Understanding cryptocurrencies with limited supply
[16:45] How a wider adoption of Bitcoin will affect economic policies
[20:16] Why Bitcoin mining is increasingly becoming decentralized
[22:07] How to earn a yield on Bitcoin
[27:10] Understanding the crypto borrowing and lending market
[28:20] All you need to know about smart contracts on Bitcoin
[30:01] Crypto loans and what happens to defaulters
[32:35] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
DLC Link
Connect with Aki on Twitter
DLC Link on YouTube
Aki's LinkedIn
Ian Schnoor is the Executive Director of the Financial Modeling Institute (FMI) and Founder of The Marquee Group, a leading financial modeling training, consulting, and accreditation provider. We discuss financial modeling essentials, the basics of giving equity to your employees, and effective ways to attract and retain good employees.
Time Stamps
[00:38] Ian’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:18] How Ian turned his teaching practice into a thriving business
[06:30] When Ian decided to hire his first employee
[08:05] Ways to attract and keep exceptional talent
[11:50] Dos and don’ts of giving equity to your employees
[15:23] The true worth of equity in a business
[18:35] Why financial modeling is essential for business success
[20:09] What is a financial model, and why should you care?
[23:38] The goal of a good financial modeler
[26:55] The evolution of practical financial modeling
[29:51] Benefits of learning financial modeling
[33:07] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Ian’s LinkedIn
Financial Modeling Institute (FMI)
The Marquee Group
Dave Fink is the CEO and Co-Founder of Postie, a marketing technology company that has transformed Direct Mail by enabling it to perform like a digital channel. We discuss the new age of direct mail marketing, why customers prefer direct mail over other marketing channels, and the benefits of testing everything in your business.
Time Stamps
[01:10] Dave’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:50] Using direct mail to get past the toughest gatekeepers
[07:15] The challenge with people working from home
[09:22] The evolution of direct mail marketing
[14:09] Comparing the effectiveness of direct mail versus digital marketing
[15:22] How to measure the success of direct mail marketing
[19:06] Ways to get people to open and respond to your direct mail
[22:30] Consistency and authenticity are key to business success
[25:41] Why you should never be afraid to test everything
[27:12] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Dave’s LinkedIn
Postie.com
Joyce Durst is the co-founder and CEO of Growth Acceleration Partners (GAP), a leading nearshore software development company that partners with US-based clients to develop custom software applications. We break down what it takes to keep customers for life, how to run remote teams successfully, and ways diversity can be a company's secret weapon.
Time Stamps
[00:50] Joyce's entrepreneurial journey
[04:21] Learning to be the CEO of a successful startup
[06:38] How Joyce and her team managed to generate a 40% yearly growth rate
[09:14] What it takes to keep your customers for life
[11:58] How to create alignment around your company "why"
[13:44] Breaking down GAP's company culture
[18:10] Diversity can be a company's secret weapon
[23:01] Creating a culture where everyone can be a leader
[26:12] Ways to become more effective at execution
[29:00] Take care of your team, and they will take care of your customers
[31:40] Do's and don'ts of remote working
[35:00] Benefits of having in-person meetings as a remote company
[36:20] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Joyce's LinkedIn
Growthaccelerationpartners.com
Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman
Ayush Singhvian is an experienced engineer, entrepreneur, and Founder of Byldd, a venture studio that helps early-stage founders build and launch revenue-generating platforms in under a month and for less than $10K. We discuss proven ways to find a technical co-founder quickly, the basics of product validation, and how entrepreneurs can build a minimal viable product (MVP).
Time Stamps
[00:40] Ayush's entrepreneurial journey
[03:39] What is a Minimal Viable Product?
[06:20] Why most startups fail
[09:02] How to identify a problem worth solving in your business
[11:40] Proven ways to find a technical co-founder quickly
[14:22] Product validation: When and why to do it
[16:17] Things entrepreneurs should do while product development is going on
[18:01] Understanding the SaaS business model
[19:53] Reasons customers would want to pay a monthly subscription
[22:07] The real pressure to succeed as a startup
[24:10] Differences between a good engineer and an excellent engineer
[26:31] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Ayush's LinkedIn
Byldd - MVP Development Company
Julian Chapman is the President of Forrest & Company, an organizational transformation firm that helps companies achieve strategic competitive advantage through consulting, coaching, and training. He is also the author of The Managerial Leadership Journey: An Unconventional Business Pursuit. We discuss what it means to be a servant leader, the science of structuring an organization, and the difference between military and business leadership.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Julian's entrepreneurial journey
[01:31] Difference between military and business leadership
[03:18] Army leadership principles that don't apply to business leadership
[05:01] How military leaders use empowerment to build trust and excellence
[06:19] The Leading Leaders and Managing Managers framework
[08:47] Key differences between leadership and management
[11:30] What it means to be a servant leader
[13:20] Was Winston Churchill a servant leader?
[14:50] How to become a transformational leader
[17:13] How Julian and his team grow leaders of character
[20:56] The science of how to structure an organization
[22:14] Four factors that define human capability
[24:47] The intersection between cognitive skills and leadership performance
[27:48] Dissecting the Managerial Leadership Journey
[30:28] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Julian's LinkedIn
Julian's website - Forrestandco.com
Managerialleadershipjourney.com
The Managerial Leadership Journey: An Unconventional Business Pursuit by Julian Chapman
The Pursuit of Prime by Ichak Adizes Ph.D.
Work with Steve - Stevepreda.com
Enrique Alvarez is the Co-Founder and Managing Director at Vector Global Logistics, which is dedicated to changing the world through supply chain. We discuss the benefits of having financial transparency in an organization, how the self-managing "sell-cells" at Vector work, and the secrets of great results in an organization.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Enrique’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:30] The Vector Culture Model and how it works
[05:12] Logistics with purpose: The passion for giving back to the community
[06:31] The Self-Managing "Sell-Cells" at Vector
[09:20] How the "Sell-Cells" work and remain productive
[11:44] How to cultivate a results mentality in your organization
[15:40] Does financial transparency improve employee confidence?
[19:51] Key benefits of financial transparency in an organization
[22:15] Importance of trust in the workplace
[24:13] Vector's disaster relief efforts in Ukraine
[29:02] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Why Work Sucks and How to Fix It: The Results-Only Revolution by Cali Ressler and Jody Thompson
Enrique’s LinkedIn
Vectorgl.com
Caleb Gardner is a sought-after speaker and founding partner of 18 Coffees, where he helps leaders navigate change and get a foothold in the future. He is also the author of the recently released No Point B: Rules for Leading Change in the New Hyper-Connected, Radically Conscious Economy. We discuss the rules for leading change, the importance of prioritizing change initiatives, and how to articulate a message for different stakeholders.
Time Stamps
[00:50] Caleb's entrepreneurial journey
[02:46] What Caleb learned managing Obama's Twitter account
[04:58] What is the Communication Canvas?
[06:30] The four main elements of the Communication Canvas
[09:32] How to articulate a message for different stakeholders
[11:52] Caleb's new book: No Point B
[15:04] Understand that change never stops
[16:30] What it takes to do change well
[18:41] Confusion and distraction in change management
[22:00] The importance of prioritizing change initiatives
[23:54] Why you need to create time for social impact
[26:18] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Calebgardner.com
Caleb's LinkedIn
No Point B: Rules for Leading Change in the New Hyper-Connected, Radically Conscious Economy by Caleb Gardner
The Changemaker's Toolkit
Abhishek Nayak is the CEO and founder of Appsmith, the first open-source, low-code platform that helps businesses with all types of custom internal applications. We discuss business models for open-source software, the steps to creating a remarkable product, and the main tenets of a solid remote culture
Time Stamps
[00:40] Abhishek's entrepreneurial journey
[02:55] Understanding app modularization
[04:32] Steps to finding product-market fit for your products
[08:05] How to uncover your product's unique selling point
[09:50] There's no shortcut to experience and knowledge
[11:17] Tips for creating a remarkable product
[13:54] Business models for open-source software
[16:30] Startup funding processes and stages
[18:18] The pros and cons of selling to developers
[22:56] How to shape company culture in remote organizations
[26:21] The science of reading versus listening
[29:41] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Abhishek's LinkedIn
Appsmith | Open-source platform to build internal tools
Wayne Mullins is a passionate entrepreneur and the CEO of Ugly Mug Marketing, a digital agency whose core business is to deliver results for growth-oriented business. We discuss the benefits of exceeding customer expectations, how businesses can turn strangers into raving fans, and why company culture is your competitive advantage.
Time Stamps
[00:45] Wayne's entrepreneurial journey
[03:50] Wayne's natural progression management blueprint
[05:43] Permission Marketing: Turning strangers to friends to customers
[07:55] The "Know, Like, Trust" factor in business
[09:37] How to turn your customers into brand evangelists
[10:56] Proven strategies to meet and exceed customer expectations
[13:25] Why your culture is your ultimate competitive advantage
[17:51] Balancing autonomy and alignment with accountability
[21:55] How to take your business to new heights
[23:51] Importance of effective communication in an organization
[26:25] Why every entrepreneur needs a coach
[29:20] Parting thoughts
[30:06] Why Wayne named his company "Ugly Mug"
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Wayne's LinkedIn
SEO Agency Louisiana | Ugly Mug Marketing
Dara Rosenbaum is the founding partner of Rosenbaum & Taylor, a boutique law firm specializing in high-quality legal representation of businesses throughout New York. We discuss the "Set It and Forget It" management blueprint, what to do when people underestimate you, and how to handle power imbalances in a negotiation.
Time Stamps
[00:49] Dara's entrepreneurial journey
[03:29] Difference between working for a law firm and running your own business
[05:01] Dara's "Set It and Forget It" management blueprint
[08:41] Prenups but for business partners
[11:19] Handling power imbalances in a negotiation
[13:32] Ways to ask for what you want in a non-threatening way
[16:14] How to set rules and regulations in business
[17:58] How information imbalance leads to chaotic negotiations
[20:29] What to do when people underestimate you
[23:29] Difference between corporate and entrepreneurial-type attorneys
[26:21] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Rosenbaumtaylor.com
Dara’s LinkedIn
Danny Cohanpour is the CEO of Trove Tourism Development Advisors, a New York-based digital strategy and marketing agency that helps tourism authorities, boards, associations and tour companies improve international visitor growth through innovation. We discuss the ingredients to successfully market a tourist destination, how to run a global tourism team, and the state of the post-pandemic tourism space.
Time Stamps
[00:36] Danny's entrepreneurial journey
[02:10] Ingredients to successfully marketing a destination
[04:20] Understanding tourists' expectations from emerging destinations
[05:47] The number one critical success factor in business
[08:18] Why people are the most important part of a business
[10:59] The dos and don'ts of managing a global team
[13:20] How to set up a typical tourism destination team
[15:06] Team structure when executing a tourism project
[17:48] How virtual reality is being used in the tourism industry
[20:53] Trends in the post-pandemic travel industry
[24:48] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Danny's LinkedIn
Trovetourism.com
Trove Tourism on Instagram
Trove Tourism on LinkedIn
TJ Bonaventura is the Co-Founder of StudioPod, a full-service podcast media and production company based in Mexico City. We talk about the processes of using podcasts to create a content engine, how to repurpose your podcast content, and the best ways to promote your podcast.
Timestamps
[00:27] TJ's entrepreneurial journey
[03:19] What is the Podcast Solar System?
[06:33] How to develop a successful podcast strategy
[09:28] Effective ways to repurpose your podcast content
[12:10] How to know if your podcast is successful
[15:01] Why it's an exciting time to be in the podcasting space
[17:03] How to know the type of people listening to your podcast
[17:52] Best ways to promote your podcast
[20:10] Tips for turning your podcast into a blog
[23:33] How StudioPod helps businesses produce podcasts
[26:21] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Mbppod.com
TJ's LinkedIn
Studiopodmedia.com
Victor Gichun is the Co-Founder of Excess Logic, the number one reverse logistics company which helps over 500 companies remarket and dispose of electronic equipment they no longer need. We discuss the key elements in the Business Success Triangle, the power of visualization, and how to work in the US on a tourist visa.
Timestamps
[00:33] Victor's entrepreneurial journey
[03:20] Victor's journey from Ukraine to the US
[07:27] How Victor found his business partner when he moved to the US
[08:20] The power of visualization
[09:25] The Business Success Triangle
[13:32] What is the experience curve?
[15:17] Using experience to gain a competitive edge in the marketplace
[16:48] Why there's no such thing as overnight success
[19:16] Can you work in the US on a Tourist Visa?
[22:16] Why it's better to focus on one business idea at a time
[23:45] Consistency is the key to business success
[25:17] Business is an evolution, not a revolution
[26:01] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
TheContributors.com
Victor's LinkedIn
Excesslogic.com
Focal Point: A Proven System to Simplify Your Life, Double Your Productivity, and Achieve All Your Goals by Brian Tracy
Abdullah Boulad is the Founder and CEO of The Balance, an exclusive luxury rehabilitation and recovery treatment centre, specially designed for Ultra High Net Worth Individuals, VIPs, and celebrities. He is also the author of Living a Life In Balance. We discuss the basics of psychological management, how to live a life of balance, and dealing with toxic traits in your business.
Time Stamps
[00:43] Abdullah's entrepreneurial journey
[03:17] Abdullah's transition from finance into the health space
[06:34] Structure your business into a global brand
[10:08] How to use marketing to take your business global
[11:20] What is psychological management?
[13:09] Building empathy and compassion in your business
[14:51] How to deal with toxic traits in your business
[17:56] Why entrepreneurs should genuinely care about their people
[19:31] The reasoning behind Abdullah's rehabilitation and treatment centre
[22:37] Living your life in balance
[27:40] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Abdullah's LinkedIn
Balanceluxuryrehab.com
Living a Life in Balance: A Holistic Guide for Physical, Mental, Social, Spiritual Health & Performance by Abdullah Boulad
Brandon Peterson is the COO of DPA auctions and CEO of Geokey Inc, a cloud-based mobile access solution for doors, gates, elevators, padlocks, and more. We discuss the 3 Cs of marketing, how to create a care culture in your business, and what it takes to build a competition-proof business.
Time Stamps
[00:26] Brandon's entrepreneurial journey
[03:50] Creating hardware-agnostic software
[04:51] Is it possible to bootstrap a software company?
[06:43] The 3 Cs of marketing framework
[09:16] Why you need to analyze your marketing campaigns
[11:07] Understanding Brandon's Northstar Challenge
[14:14] Developing a care culture in your organization
[16:00] Organizational cultures: Pressure makes diamonds
[17:06] Everything is a process in business
[19:29] How to processize your business
[20:22] Ways to eliminate single-person dependency in your business
[21:37] How to build a competition-proof business
[24:30] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Brandon's LinkedIn
Dpaauctions.com
Geokeyaccess.com
Rob Ashton is the founder and former CEO of Emphasis, a global leader in the professional writing consultancy space, having served some of the biggest tech companies in Silicon Valley and high-ranking government agencies. We discuss how entrepreneurs can release functions in their businesses, critical considerations before hiring your first salesperson, and how to make your words come alive.
Time Stamps
[00:55] Rob's entrepreneurial journey
[02:50] How to make your words come alive
[05:26] Why you need to eliminate adjectives from your writing
[08:12] What is a Sequential Function Release?
[13:37] Key considerations before hiring your first salesperson
[16:04] Operations management is a key business driver
[19:47] How Rob stepped down from the CEO role
[22:53] Why the business operator needs to be better than the entrepreneur
[24:46] Understanding silent influence and invisible medium
[27:49] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Writing-skills.com
The Silent Influence Writing Course
Robashton.com
Rob on Twitter
Rob's LinkedIn
Megan Nivens-Tannett is the founder and CEO of Flourish, an agency that helps businesses thrive through strategic marketing and public relations solutions. We discuss big-picture marketing, the benefits of having a strategic business partner, and how stupid questions challenge assumptions.
Time Stamps
[00:29] Megan's entrepreneurial journey
[04:45] Entrepreneurs need to be ready to make hard decisions
[06:19] Understanding the Flourish Communication Framework
[07:46] How to be intentional in your business
[11:55] The benefits of having a strategic growth partner
[14:04] Purposeful Business: What is it and how do you implement it?
[17:16] Why you need to invest in a purposeful business strategy
[18:06] Ways to tailor your offers according to key target markets
[21:24] Content Marketing: Stop selling and start helping
[23:42] How to make your content more credible
[26:11] Rethinking the idea of asking stupid questions
[30:47] Stupid questions challenge assumptions
[34:18] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Megan's LinkedIn
Flourishconsultingservices.com
Michael Marchese is the founder and CEO of Tempesta Media, a managed services provider specialized in performance driven content, social and influencer marketing programs for B2B businesses. We discuss how outsourced content creation works, how to measure content marketing ROI, and the use of technology in content creation.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Michael’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:10] How outsourcing content creation works
[07:05] Finding high-quality outsourced content creators
[09:24] How content creators create relevant content for clients
[11:22] Is AI the future of content creation?
[13:04] The Tempesta Media Bullseye framework
[16:33] Measuring content marketing ROI
[18:36] How to structure your content marketing efforts
[20:38] Why businesses are outsourcing content to managed service providers
[22:18] The most challenging obstacles of content marketing
[25:27] KPIs for measuring content effectiveness
[27:12] Technology use in content, social, and influencer marketing
[29:03] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Tempestamedia.com
Michael’s LinkedIn
David McClellan is a serial entrepreneur and founder of Social Catfish, a company that helps consumers find lost personal connections and verify if people are really whom they say they are online. We discuss the challenges of hiring a marketing firm, the limits of being protected online, and having a realistic workload for your team.
Time Stamps
[00:29] Tips on how to become a productive procrastinator
[01:17] David’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:23] The challenge of hiring a marketing firm
[05:36] Why is the Pareto Principle so important in business?
[09:20] How to model anything using David’s SISEY framework
[11:10] How to figure out the 20% effort that will give you 80% results
[13:43] How to streamline your development and execution process
[15:27] Communication when you can’t deliver on a project
[17:01] Why you need a realistic workload for your team
[19:56] Understanding the limits of being protected online
[24:21] How to bootstrap a business David’s way
[28:26] The benefits of having a niche
[29:53] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Socialcatfish.com
David’s LinkedIn
Social Catfish on Instagram
Michael DeLon is the President of Paperback Expert, a book publishing firm that helps business owners create and publish books in less than 24 hours of their time. We discuss how to create a book without writing a word, essential book marketing ideas, and what writing a book does to your credibility.
Timestamps
[00:27] Michael's entrepreneurial journey
[04:57] How to uncover the book hidden in your experience
[07:08] Why writing a book is an instant credibility upgrade
[10:08] How to create your book without writing a word
[12:16] Michael's book creation framework
[14:54] The Speak-to-Write process
[16:56] How to show up differently as an author
[18:49] Become an Amazon best-selling author
[22:03] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Paperbackexpert.com
Michael's LinkedIn
Tania Luna is the co-founder and chair of LifeLabs Learning and the best-selling author of The Leader Lab: Core Skills to Become a Great Manager Faster. We talk about the making of a great leader, coaching as the most important skill in leadership, and how too much entrepreneurship can be a bad thing.
Timestamps
[00:42] Tania's entrepreneurial journey
[02:31] Tania's journey from science to running a business
[03:47] The difference between working in science and running a business
[06:09] Tania's CAMPS management blueprint
[09:07] The making of a great manager
[13:12] The Swiss Army knife of great managers
[16:35] Good leadership is about asking good questions
[17:37] Deblurring: How to turn ambiguous words into clear information
[19:17] The #1 step to leading with impact
[21:07] Why coaching is the most important skill in leadership
[23:58] Coaching is helping people extract wisdom from their own experience
[24:52] Are people born leaders, or can leadership be taught?
[26:55] The surprising truth about leadership
[29:12] Is too much entrepreneurship a bad thing?
[31:35] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Tania's LinkedIn
Lifelabslearning.com
Tanialuna.com
The Leader Lab: Core Skills to Become a Great Manager, Faster by Tania Luna
Kristopher Kluver is a former serial entrepreneur and the founder of Life on Your Terms, a coaching consulting firm that helps people redesign their life based on their definition of success. We talk about the four main pillars of a successful life, why you need to be unreasonable to be extraordinary, and how businesses can protect their primary asset.
Time Stamps
[00:45] Kristopher's entrepreneurial journey
[02:36] How to define what success means to you
[04:13] To feel successful, stop moving your goalpost
[07:21] The four quadrants in the Life on Your Terms model
[09:23] How to balance the four main pillars of a successful life
[11:43] Life Changing Goals and why they're essential for success
[15:42] Why you need to be unreasonable to be extraordinary
[18:08] How to deal with the saboteurs in your life
[22:07] The benefits of helping your employees achieve their life-changing goals
[23:33] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Kristopher's LinkedIn
Lifeon-yourterms.com
Karla Singson is the CEO of Scalewind, a company that provides creative, tech, customer & admin support to companies that want to grow and scale without the hassles of HR, legal, and manpower management. We talk about the Distributing Growth framework, the scary part of growing a business, and factors to consider before outsourcing tasks.
Time Stamps
[00:46] Karla's entrepreneurial journey
[03:22] The 3 main aspects of Karla's business
[05:31] The Distributing Growth business framework
[08:30] Removing speed bumps in your business
[10:44] How to keep your employees connected to the company vision
[14:23] The scary part of growing a business
[17:35] Steps to finding the sweet spot for business growth
[19:47] The main misconceptions about outsourcing
[21:35] Difference between managed services & outsourcing
[24:28] Tips in setting expectations for outsourcing
[28:02] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Scalewind.com
Karla's LinkedIn
Karla's email: Karla@Scalewind.com
Book - Great by Choice by Jim Collins
Gleb Kuznetzov is the founder of Milkinside Design Studio and the Chief Design Officer of Brain Technologies, Inc, an AI and interface company that aims to reinvent computer interfaces and make software natural. We talk about the keys to a successful digital transformation, how to design lovable products, and reasons why startup founders must think big.
Time Stamps
[00:43] Gleb's entrepreneurial journey
[03:09] Gleb's move from Europe to The US
[05:01] Keys to a successful digital transformation
[09:12] The role of digital transformation in predictable business growth
[12:15] Gleb's Cube Framework for predictable business growth
[16:54] Understanding mass market products
[19:11] The consumer avatar for mass market products and services
[22:47] Benefits of building a business around your ideal customer avatar
[25:09] Gleb's advice to startup founders on how to scale their business
[27:15] Reasons why startup founders need to think big
[28:42] Gleb shares the inspiration behind his company's name Milkinside
[30:33] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Milkinside.com
Gleb's LinkedIn
Follow Gleb on Twitter
Alexander Kunz is the CEO and co-founder of OP2 Labs, an INC. 5000 company that develops, manufactures, and sells innovative nutritional supplements under two brand names, Frog Fuel and Pro T Gold. We discuss the core competencies of a good leader, how to build a label-less organizational culture, and the process of manufacturing nutritional supplements.
Time Stamps
[00:32] Alexander's entrepreneurial journey
[05:12] Alexander starts contracting for government agencies
[08:31] What it's like working in the cybersecurity space
[12:41] The exposure of working for a global company
[14:52] What to do if you discover your company is breaking the law
[18:05] Understanding the target market for nutritional supplements
[20:33] The process of manufacturing nutritional supplements
[23:55] How to create a label-less culture in your organization
[28:36] Why we need to rethink the way we classify people
[32:12] Important things to remember when incentivizing employees
[35:30] Characteristics of a good leader
[37:03] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Op2labs.com
Alexander's LinkedIn
David St. Germain is the Founder and CEO of Cactus Credit which helps people improve their credit profiles. He is also the author of Zero To Hero: 7 Simple Strategies for Creating the Life You've Always Wanted. We talk about upselling best practices, the drawbacks of too much innovation, and the role of environment in business success.
Time Stamps
[00:26] David's entrepreneurial journey
[02:52] How to double your company's revenue fast
[06:46] Ways to uncover upselling opportunities
[09:00] Benefits of upselling value to existing customers
[09:56] Why business owners need to focus more on what's probable
[12:22] Too much innovation can be a bad thing
[13:49] The role of environment in business success
[16:54] Goal setting: match your effort with your goal
[20:08] David's goal achieving system
[22:22] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Davidstg.com
David's Book - Zero To Hero: 7 Simple Strategies for Creating the Life You've Always Wanted
David's LinkedIn
Pat Clawson is the chairman and CEO of Resurface Labs, a software company that provides continuous API security by detecting and responding to API attacks at runtime. We discuss the four main types of sales research, working with APIs in your business, and API security best practices.
Time Stamps
[00:33] Pat's entrepreneurial journey
[03:58] Pat's success operating other people's businesses
[04:35] The four main types of sales research
[07:29] Why businesses cannot succeed without sales research
[08:35] Understanding the focused sales framework
[11:32] Drive results using a repeatable sales process
[12:24] What is an API?
[14:15] Risks of API integration and how to mitigate them
[15:43] How to know if you're engaging with APIs
[16:49] Working with APIs in your business
[18:39] How to protect yourself from a potential API attack
[22:30] Protecting your APIs from potential attacks
[23:44] API security best practices
[26:28] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Pat's LinkedIn
Resurface.io
Pat's email: pat@resurface.io
Srikant Chellappa is the president and co-founder of Engagedly, an employee engagement and development software platform that redefines the performance review process. In his spare time, Sri also produces movies, makes music, and hosts the People Strategy Leaders Podcast. We discuss the benefits of having engaged employees, how OKRs ramp up employee motivation, and where most companies fail with employee engagement.
Time Stamps
[00:47] Sri's entrepreneurial journey
[02:22] A simple framework to improve employee engagement
[05:49] Where most companies are failing with employee engagement
[08:45] Employees want to feel purpose in their work
[10:57] The 3Es engagement framework at Engagedly
[12:56] Performance reviews for employee engagement
[15:17] OKRs and performance management: How they work together
[17:46] How OKRs ramp up employee motivation
[19:18] How managers can use Engagedly to improve employee engagement
[21:22] Engagedly is a people strategy platform
[23:20] Why HR should be executives at the people strategy table
[25:23] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Sri's LinkedIn
Engagedly.com
People Strategy Leaders Podcast
Per Sjofors is a six-time CEO, pricing expert, and author of The Price Whisperer: a Holistic Approach to Pricing Power. We talk about price anchoring, the mistakes businesses make with pricing, and how low prices can potentially scare away customers.
Time Stamps
[00:40] Per's entrepreneurial journey
[04:08] Specific problems with modern pricing strategies
[07:00] Reasons why pricing is critical for business success
[09:56] How to develop a practical pricing framework
[12:03] The risk of overcomplicating pricing
[13:59] When and when not to hide prices on your website
[16:11] The psychology behind hidden prices
[18:19] What is price anchoring, and is it effective?
[22:42] How to defend and justify your pricing
[27:01] Can low prices scare away customers?
[28:37] The drawbacks of attracting price-sensitive clients
[30:52] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Per's Book - The Price Whisperer: A Holistic Approach to Pricing Power
Per's LinkedIn
Persjofors.com
Robin Landa is an ideation expert, an author of 25 books, and a distinguished professor at Kaen University in New York. And she is very prolific. We talk about strategic creativity, the benefits of being curious in life, and the difference between good copy and a sales pitch.
Timestamps
[00:40] How to become an expert in ideation and creativity
[02:01] The two main types of creativity
[03:54] Can creativity be taught?
[06:37] Why curiosity is an innate human trait
[08:24] Curiosity is the fuel for creativity
[10:41] What is strategic creativity?
[13:42] Creativity: How much is too much?
[16:41] How to unlock your creative potential
[19:45] Closing the gap from where you are and where you want to be
[22:42] The difference between good copy and a sales pitch
[25:36] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Robinlanda.com
Robin’s LinkedIn
Strategic Creativity: A Business Field Guide to Advertising, Branding, and Design by Robin Landa
Charles Brecque is the founder and CEO of Legislate, a tech company that makes it easy for non-lawyers to safely create, manage, and search lawyer-approved contracts on a no-legal budget. We talk about advanced contract management, how business deals fall apart because of contracts, and what to do when dealing with one-sided contracts.
Timestamps
[00:29] Charles’ entrepreneurial journey
[02:07] When business deals fall apart because of contracts
[04:37] How Legislate helps remove the complexity out of contracts
[05:54] Reasonableness and good faith in contracts
[07:23] Having a system for creating contracts saves time
[10:10] The types of businesses currently using Legislate
[12:07] How contracts translate to different jurisdictions
[16:08] Advanced contract management at Legislate
[18:59] How to deal with one-sided contracts
[21:03] Legislate’s single phrase strategy
[23:08] Opening up contracts for better business opportunities
[25:45] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Charles’ LinkedIn
Legislate.tech
Denis O'Shea is the founder of Mobile Mentor, an MSP helping clients find and maintain the right balance between securing devices, protecting data, and empowering people to be productive. We talk about cybersecurity for a remote workforce, how to go totally password-free, and how to turn your company into a “Category of One” business.
Timestamps
[00:36] Denis’ entrepreneurial journey
[03:24] How Denis helped people get more out of their smartphones
[06:06] The Endpoint Ecosystem and why it’s so important
[08:45] Cybersecurity for a remote workforce
[10:21] The right balance between cybersecurity and productivity
[12:47] How to go totally password free
[14:28] How to turn your company into a “Category of One” business
[17:39] The Endpoint Ecosystem and predicting the future of work
[20:38] How Denis helps companies balance between security and employee experience
[21:51] Cybersecruty for remote Gen Z workers
[23:24] How the pandemic shaped Gen Z workers and the future of cybersecurity
[28:22] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Denis’ LinkedIn
Mobile-mentor.com
Endpointecosystem.com
Jim Padilla is the founder and CEO of Gain the Edge, a sales service firm that provides business owners with top-notch sales teams, live events, and hands-free sales processes and systems. We talk about the Rainmaker Sales System, the role of emotions in buying decisions, and how to improve your control over the sales process.
Timestamps
[00:58] Jim’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:14] The difference between selling during and after a launch
[03:16] How to improve your control over the sales process
[04:29] What is the Rainmaker Sales System?
[07:52] Why the Rainmaker system works in all industries
[09:41] The role of emotions in buying decisions
[11:03] How to make the mechanism the message in sales
[13:34] Why you need to sell according to how your clients buy
[17:17] Things that stunt your ability to scale
[21:52] How to scale your business
[23:42] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Jim’s LinkedIn
Jim’s Website
Alex Castro is an execution alignment expert, best-selling author, and the creator of ReM Score. We discuss the role of an execution alignment expert, reasons why businesses struggle with strategy execution, and how the ReM Score drives innovation growth opportunities.
Time Stamps
[00:26] Alex’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:39] The primary role of an execution alignment expert
[06:08] Reasons why businesses struggle with execution
[08:33] The biggest unsolved problem with strategy execution
[14:16] Understanding the gap between idea, strategy, and execution
[17:17] Strategy execution: How to escape the 80% failure rate
[20:33] The four phases of an effective execution framework
[22:49] The 14 modeling ingredients for effective strategy implementation
[24:11] Alex describes the strategy and benefits of using Rem Score
[26:09 How to use ReM Score as a small/mid-sized business owner
[28:15] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Measure, Execute, Win: Avoiding Strategic Initiative Debacles and Knowing What Your Business Can and Can’t Do Well by Alex Castro
Remscore.com
Alex’s LinkedIn
Darryl Bates-Brownsword is the owner of Succession Plus, a boutique consulting firm that helps get businesses exit ready so owners can step back, maximize value, and leave on their own terms. We discuss the five steps to creating an exit-ready business, ways to add massive value to your business, and factors that shape a successful exit plan.
Time Stamps
[00:29] Darryl's entrepreneurial journey
[03:23] How to build an exit-ready business
[07:06] The five main stages of a strategic business exit strategy
[08:43] Reasons why every company needs a vision
[10:56] Expert tips on how to protect the value of your business
[13:36] Ways to add massive value to your business
[16:42] Key processes to formulating a successful exit strategy
[18:24] How to manage value and reinvent yourself after a successful exit
[21:46] Factors that shape a successful exit plan
[23:39] The benefits of measuring and monitoring business capacity
[24:47] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Darryl's LinkedIn
Darryl's Website: Succession.plus
Stacey Marmolejo is the Principal Owner of the Franchise Prep Academy, where she focuses on teaching military veterans how to explore franchise ownership as a potential post-service career. We talk about the skills that define a great franchise owner, how to find the right franchise to invest in, and the biggest challenges to growing a franchise business.
Timestamps
[00:30] Stacey's entrepreneurial journey
[02:12] Pros and cons of becoming a franchisee
[04:22] Skills that make you a great franchisee
[06:29] Are franchise investors visionary or non-visionary entrepreneurs?
[08:14] Personality traits for successful franchise ownership
[11:25] How to find the right franchise for you to invest in
[14:23] The difference between a franchise coach and a franchise consultant
[15:59] Ways to know if your business is ready to franchise
[21:30] Common franchise myths and realities about growth and success
[24:17] Biggest challenges to growing a franchise business
[25:57] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Stacey's LinkedIn
Franchiseprepacademy.com
Get your h0w-to franchise ebooks here
Brandon Leibowitz is the founder and owner of SEO Optimizers, a full-service digital marketing agency, specializing in search engine optimization, website design, social media, and paid advertising. We talk about the importance of having niche-relevant backlinks, how to rank your website using SEO, and the anatomy of the perfect blog post.
Time Stamps
[00:27] Brandon's entrepreneurial journey
[02:09] The most exciting things about SEO
[02:52] How to keep up with the ever-changing SEO trends
[04:39] SEO versus paid search advertising
[06:40] Brandon's Digital Marketing Blueprint
[09:45] What are backlinks, and how do they work?
[12:35] How to use backlinks for better search rankings
[15:05] The importance of having niche-relevant backlinks
[16:15] How podcasting can improve your search engine ranking
[18:24] Does a press release for higher search rankings still work?
[19:30] How to get traffic and convert them into customers
[21:43] Ways to optimize your website for higher conversions
[22:57] The anatomy of the perfect blog post
[25:23] How Brandon creates content that people want to read
[26:52] Where and how to use keywords the right way
[29:51] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Brandon's LinkedIn
Seooptimizers.com
Claim your free gift here Seooptimizers.com/gift
Natasha Miller is the Founder and Chief Experience Designer of Entire Productions, an Inc 5000 corporate event planning and entertainment management company. She is also the author of the Wall Street Journal bestselling book Relentless: Homeless Teen to Achieving the Entrepreneur Dream. We talk about the power of delegation in business, why musicians make great entrepreneurs, and how to become a relentless entrepreneur.
Time Stamps
[00:34] Natasha’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:00] How Natasha first got into entrepreneurship
[04:08] Understanding the Entire Productions Project Management System
[07:52] The main cogs in Natasha’s management blueprint
[09:13] How Natasha’s management system is like a supercharged CRM
[11:40] Key components of successful workflow automation
[14:14] Why you need to reduce complexity in your systems
[15:41] How reliability strengthens business relationships
[17:20] Why delegation is a superpower in business
[20:25] Why musicians make better entrepreneurs
[23:45] Natasha’s Book Relentless: Homeless Team To Achieving The Entrepreneur Dream
[26:41] Traits of highly relentless people and how to become one
[29:07] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Natasha’s LinkedIn
Officialnatashamiller.com
Entireproductions.com
Relentless: Homeless Teen to Achieving the Entrepreneur Dream by Natasha Miller
Matt Davis is the CEO and Owner of Davis Business Law, a group of business lawyers dedicated to helping companies and entrepreneurs deal with the complex vulnerabilities in their business. He is also the author of The Art of Preventing Stupid: How to Build a Stronger Business Strategy through Better Risk Management. We talk about the business immune system report, how constant improvement always leads to success, and the difference between ignorance and ineptitude in business.
Time Stamps
[00:39] Matthew’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:03] How Matthew transformed his law practice into a functioning business
[03:36] Matthew’s thoughts on working on the business, not in the business
[04:45] Constant improvement is the key to business success
[06:06] What is the Prevent Stupid System?
[09:38] Understanding The Art of Preventing Stupid
[11:03] Matt’s modified Eisenhower matrix
[14:22] The difference between ignorance and ineptitude in business
[18:32] Why you need to constantly address areas of vulnerability in your business
[20:16] The Immune System Report and why it’s so effective
[23:01] How to address problems in your business before they manifest
[25:23] How to build a one-partner law firm
[31:42] Smart entrepreneurs proactively protect their business
[34:38] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Davisbusinesslaw.com
Matthew’s LinkedIn
The Art of Preventing Stupid by Matthew Davis
Andy Neillie is an adjunct professor, best-selling author, and the owner of Aqua-Tots Swim School of Central Texas. He's also the principal of the Neillie Leadership Group, where he helps organizations turn managers into leaders. We talk about the four leadership necessities, why communication is the most important skill in leadership, and best practices for holding tough conversations.
Time Stamps
[00:40] Andy's entrepreneurial journey
[03:47] Andy's time management practices and running multiple businesses
[05:09] The Four Leadership Necessities
[09:31] Covenant Leadership and why it's so powerful
[10:32] How to leverage the 4 C's of Leadership to grow your company
[13:35] Understand that we all can grow our passions
[15:07] Competence and character in leadership
[20:36] Your business is not a family; it's a team
[23:57] Communication is the most important skill in leadership
[25:27] The three main types of conversations in leadership
[30:28] Best practices for holding hard conversations
[31:21] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Andy's LinkedIn
Neillieleadershipgroup.com
Andy's email: Andy@neillieleadership.com
The Golden Principles by Andy Neillie
What Got You Here Won't Get You There in Sales by Marshall Goldsmith
Steve Alexander is the CEO of MSP-Ignite, an organization that helps managed service providers achieve maximum equity and recurring revenues through facilitated peer groups. We talk about the benefits of being part of a peer group, the recurring revenue model’s impact on business valuation, and how to maximize your profit margins as an MSP.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Steve’s entrepreneurial journey
[01:54] What is an MSP?
[07:10] How Steve launched his first business advisory group
[07:53] Mastermind groups and how they operate
[11:13] Top tips for building trust in a mastermind group
[13:53] The difference between project revenue and recurring revenue
[16:22] How to build a recurring revenue business model
[20:44] Why you should consider joining a peer group
[23:38] The main reasons why people join and stay in business peer groups
[25:10] A glimpse into what a typical peer group meeting looks like
[28:21] How to deal with an unmanageable peer group member
[31:34] The subtle art of managing efficient mastermind groups
[37:32] Steve’s process of onboarding new peer group members
[38:59] How to maximize your profit margins as an MSP
[41:47] Parting thoughts
[43:04] How the recurring revenue model has evolved over time
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg Cleary’s New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Steve Alexander’s LinkedIn
MSP-Ignite.com
Dennis van der Heijden is the Founder, CEO, and Head of Global Happiness at Convert.com, where they make e-commerce A/B and multivariate testing easy for agencies and experts. We talk about the Holocracy management system, why your website needs frequent testing and monitoring, and how to analyze the traffic coming to your website.
Time Stamps
[00:50] Dennis’ entrepreneurial journey
[02:48] How Convert.com improves website performance
[03:59] The recommended number of times you should A/B test your website
[05:34] Basics of website performance testing and monitoring
[07:40] Why all small business owners should frequently A/B test their websites
[10:47] How to analyze the traffic coming through to your website
[12:16] Why you should focus more on traffic before thinking about A/B testing your site
[13:15] Best platforms for A/B testing before making changes to your site
[17:41] Dennis’ experience with management blueprints
[20:47] How to commoditize the human element of your business
[24:54] What it looks like for a company running on Holocracy
[25:33] Key aspects of the Holocracy constitution
[29:39] Understanding the Convert Main Circle of leadership
[32:06] Democracy within an organization
[35:02] The pros and cons of the Horocracy management system
[39:40] How entrepreneurs can get the most out of the Hollocracy constitution
[42:44] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources:
Dennis’ LinkedIn
Convert.com
Dennis’ email: Dennis@Convert.com
Holacracy.org
The Four Hour Work Week by Tim Ferris
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Jack McGuinness is the co-founder of Relationship Impact, a consulting firm focused on helping great leaders build great leadership teams. He is also the author of a new book, Building Great Leadership Teams: A Practical Approach for Unleashing the Full Potential of Your Team. We talk about the benefits of having a great leadership team, how to build trust inside a team, and why leadership is not about having all the answers.
Time Stamps
[00:40] Jack’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:02] How the 2008 crash impacted Jack’s entrepreneurial journey
[06:23] Lessons learned from running a business during the 2008 financial crisis
[07:57] The importance of having a strong leadership team
[10:56] The tension between productivity and business health in leadership
[12:22] Is toxic productivity good for the work environment?
[14:41] The secret to building a great leadership team
[19:28] How to build trust inside your team
[24:24] How to intentionally compose an effective leadership team
[28:55] Understanding the role of the CEO in a leadership team
[33:15] Why leadership is not about having all the answers
[36:06] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve’s and Greg’s New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Building Great Leadership Teams by Jack McGuinness
Jack’s LinkedIn
Relationship-impact.com
Greatleadershipteambook.com
Stevepreda.com
Amit Kothari is the CEO of Tallyfy, a technology platform that helps business owners document and automate processes without being technical or process savvy. We talk about process improvement in small businesses, what it means to have a scalable business, and the drawbacks of using flowcharts when documenting business processes.
Time Stamps
[00:49] Amit’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:01] How Tallyfy is revolutionizing business processes
[05:06] The drawbacks of using flowcharts when mapping business process
[07:42] How Amit successfully challenged the status quo when building his business
[09:38] How to answer the trickiest entrepreneurship question
[11:15] The key differences between a process-focused and project-focused business
[13:03] What it means to have a scalable business
[15:07] How to productize a service
17:58] Understanding how process improvement is about creativity
[19:24] Critical steps for optimizing a business process
[20:50] How to significantly improve your business processes
[23:41] Why giving employees a voice improves engagement
[27:08] The difference between processes and workflows
[28:12] What is workflow automation and why is it so important?
[31:19] Automate repetitive tasks to save time and productivity
[35:07] How Amit and his team can improve a team’s productivity by 20%
[38:23] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve’s and Greg Cleary's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Amit’s LinkedIn
Tallyfy.com
Atomic Habits by James Clear
https://StevePreda.com
Shane Foss is the founder and CEO of Hooray Health, a limited benefit medical plan provider focused on providing practical health care plans and protecting their members against predatory balanced billing practices. We talk about the main stages of a business life cycle, how to avoid the predatory balance billing trap, and the main drivers of the medical debt crisis.
Time Stamps
[00:41] Shane’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:16] The Darkside of healthcare in the US
[04:49] Understanding the main stages of a business lifecycle
[08:12] How to measure the main phases of a business lifecycle
[11:55] The right time to scale your business
[12:34] Key elements of the business testing phase
[13:47] How Hooray Health stands out as a health insurance provider
[18:45] Why Hooray Health is not a replacement for major medical
[20:13] Gen X and Millennials love for supplemental health benefits
[21:54] How to avoid the predatory balance billing trap
[24:10] Explaining the meaning of balance billing in health insurance
[26:15] How heath care providers tackle the medical debt crisis
[29:32] Growth drivers in a health insurance firm like Hooray Health
[31:31] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve’s and Greg Cleary’s New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Hoorayhealth.com
Shane’s LinkedIn
https://StevePreda.com
Greg Cleary is the Founder of Pinnacle Business Guides, a community of entrepreneurial guides with real-world, hands-on experience running businesses. We talk about why people are the most important assets in your business, why you need a business operating system for your company, and why you would want to customize it for your business. Also learn about Steve and Greg’s new book, Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain.
Time Stamps
[01:00] Greg’s entrepreneurial journey
[05:00] The key challenges of building a coaching community of guides
[05:55] How Greg developed the 5 principles in the Pinnacle business framework
[08:03] Why people are what matters most in business
[11:23] What makes the Pinnacle business operating system unique
[15:15] Why Greg believes Pinnacle is the 100% solution
[17:40] The essence of having tools for your business
[20:45] Greg’s obsession with helping companies grow
[21:58] Why every business needs a customized operating system
[25:09] Rocks as the secret to achieving business goals
[30:00] How to 5X your business in 5 years
[31:20] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve and Greg's New Book: Pinnacle: Five Principles that Take Your Business to the Top of the Mountain
Pinnacle Business Guides website
Greg’s LinkedIn
The Psychology of Selling by Brian Tracy
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey
https://StevePreda.com
Dave Romero is the President of Unboxed Training and Technology, a company that creates learning experiences and technologies to help businesses embed continuous learning in the workplace. We talk about the Holy Grail of business longevity, how successful entrepreneurs eliminate complexity from their businesses, and why curiosity is the ultimate business superpower.
Timestamps
[00:34] Dave’s entrepreneurial journey
[01:47] Dave’s desire to improve the boring learning environment
[02:52] Dave’s experience with management blueprints
[05:31] Understanding the Eisenhower matrix
[08:33] How to differentiate between urgent and important things in your business
[10:56] Knowing where to focus your energy and attention
[14:30] How to stop complexity from choking your business
[16:45] Understanding the Infinite Game of Business
[19:39] The Holy Grail of business longevity
[25:57] Meeting the buyer’s needs and selling in the information age
[30:17] The bespoke hiring and recruiting process at Unboxed
[34:23] Why curiosity in business is the ultimate superpower
[36:11] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources:
Unboxedtechnology.com
Dave on LinkedIn
The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Raghu Bala is the founder and CEO of NetObjex that operates Matrix, a Digital Asset-as-a-Service platform that helps enterprises harness the power of Internet of Things, AI, and blockchain technologies in constructing Web3 marketplaces. We talk about the democratization of data, the three primary categories of assets, and why virtual real estate is intentionally made scarce.
Time Stamps
[00:39] Raghu’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:56] Web3: The hype and how it can transform the internet
[07:53] Understanding the democratization of data
[10:08] Raghu’s experience with management blueprints
[11:58] How to approach investment funding for your startup
[16:49] What is Crowdfunding and how does it work?
[20:26] The disadvantages of crowdfunding
[21:33] Debt financing for early-stage startups
[23:12] Lending clubs: How they work and what to expect
[23:58] Understanding the basics of convertible notes
[25:45] The three primary categories of assets
[27:13] How to secure your assets using tokens
[31:16] Digital Assets: Common formats and how they’re best used
[33:54] Why creators of virtual real estates intentionally make it scarce
[35:08] How Russia’s invasion of Ukraine will positively impact the crypto world
[37:34] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources:
Raghu’s LinkedIn
Netobjex.com
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Van Carlson is the CEO of SRA 831(b) Admin, a company that helps private businesses set up their own captive self-insurance to cover oversized and unusual risks threatening their businesses. We talk about the 831(b) insurance captive, tax-efficient strategies for funding insurance premiums, and the risks your business should be protected against when setting up an insurance cover.
Time Stamps
[00:35] Van’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:29] Managing financial risk using captive insurance
[04:59] Van’s experience with management blueprints
[07:36] Technology and AI in the modern business environment
[09:52] Understanding the entrepreneurial myth
[10:39] The basics of the 831(b) insurance captive
[12:25] Liability insurance and protection against lawsuits
[16:02] Tax-efficient strategies for funding insurance premiums
[19:05] What to look out for before settling on an insurance cover
[22:22] Practical business size for creating a captive insurance vehicle
[25:25] The best way to set up a captive insurance plan and minimize on taxes
[27:45] Understanding the type of risks your insurance will cover
[28:59] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources:
Van Carlson’s LinkedIn
831b.com
Van’s email: van@831(b).com
The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Eric Brotman is the CEO of BFG Financial Advisors, an independent firm assisting clients with wealth creation, preservation, and distribution. He is also the author of Don't Retire... Graduate!: Building a Path to Financial Freedom and Retirement at Any Age. We talk about multi-generational financial planning, the benefits of flexible leadership, and why retirement should not mean the end of your productive life.
Time Stamps
[00:43] Eric's entrepreneurial journey
[03:24] Eric's experience with management blueprints
[06:54] The benefits of flexible leadership
[09:31] Understanding visionary leadership and why it's so effective
[12:39] Why some entrepreneurs sell shares to their best-performing employees
[14:35] What is multi-generational planning?
[18:50] How multi-generational planning helps families avoid internal conflict
[21:47] How Eric helps young multi-generational planners gain experience in the field
[23:26] Eric's multi-generational planning and financial literacy tools
[27:07] Collaborative financial planning and the role of the advisor
[30:51] Why retirement should not mean the end of your productive life
[32:58] The retirement problem and why some retirees go back to working
[35:52] Growth drivers at Eric's firm BFG Financial Advisors
[38:11] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Eric's LinkedIn
Brotman Consulting Group
Bfgfa.com
Don't Retire... Graduate by Eric Brotman
Don't Retire...Graduate Podcast
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Andy Alsop is the inventor of the Employee Supremacy Operational Model and the CEO of The Receptionist, a leading iPad-based visitor management solution installed in more than 5500 locations worldwide. We talk about the effectiveness of visitor management solutions, employee supremacy at the workplace, and how company cultures influence employee loyalty.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Andy’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:29] The competitiveness of the virtual receptionist market
[04:44] How Andy’s company competes with venture-backed companies
[07:21] The Employee Supremacy Operating Model
[10:27] How to discover your ‘Just Cause’ and understand your ‘Why’
[12:20] How Andy and his team developed their company ‘Why’
[13:51] The benefits of having Employee Supremacy
[16:37] How businesses can prioritize employee needs on a daily basis
[20:12] A practical look at Employee Supremacy at the workplace
[22:28] Why you need to build trust within your teams
[23:23] Understanding the key aspects of a visitor management solution
[23:53] Unique functionalities from visitor management solutions
[29:32] The future of visitor management solutions
[33:15] The great resignation and AI taking over jobs
[34:51] How company cultures influence employee loyalty
[37:20] How to incorporate employee supremacy into your company culture
[40:38] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Andy’s LinkedIn
TheReceptionist.com
TheReceptionist.com/employee-supremacy
The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek
Traction by Gino Wickman
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Peter Lehrman is the CEO of Axial, a private deal network serving professionals who own, advise, and invest in North American lower middle-market companies. We talk about the North Star Metric, the due diligence checklist for buying a business, and the benefits of having perseverance in business.
Time Stamps
[01:32] Peter’s entrepreneurial journey
[05:47] Peter’s experience with management blueprints
[07:16] The North Star Metric
[11:07] Axial’s North Star Metric
[14:05] How Axial subtly leads customers into signing an NDA
[16:59] Why businesses need to custom-adjust their management frameworks
[18:46] The importance of having perseverance in business
[22:17] The complex process of buying or selling a business
[26:44] The key identifiers of small businesses in the US
[31:27] Technology adoption and incorporation at Axial
[34:13] How Peter and his team create reach for business buyers and sellers
[36:37] Buying a business: Due diligence checklist
[39:29] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources:
Axial.net
Peter’s Twitter Handle
Peter’s LinkedIn
The North Star Playbook
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Marie Hale is the CEO of @revenue, an innovative sales and marketing company that empowers small and medium-sized business owners to create and lead successful sales teams as well as execute full scale marketing strategies. We talk about the benefits of having a solid management blueprint, Professional Love in sales, and the key features in a custom-crafted CRM system.
Time Stamps
[00:33] Marie’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:01] How to get sales and marketing to work together
[05:35] Professional Love and why it’s such an effective selling strategy
[07:06] How salespeople can get buyers to open up about their feelings
[09:47] Marie’s experience with management blueprints
[12:07] Marie’s key takeaway points from the E-Myth Framework
[13:44] The benefits of having a solid management blueprint
[15:12] How to systematize your business with little to no disruption
[17:45] Key features in a custom-crafted CRM
[20:55] Why all businesses need a clear and succinct CRM system
[22:03] Marie’s automate, duplicate, delegate, and elevate framework.
[25:31] Why you need to automate your project management software
[28:46] Understanding the automation piece in a project management software
[31:05] How Marie’s company builds and sustains growth
[35:53] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
@revenue.com
Marie’s LinkedIn
FWDrevolution.com
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Kenneth Wingate is the founder and president of North Point Builders, a general contractor focusing on designing and building government facilities, hospitals, medical centers, K-12 schools, universities, churches, and community centers. We talk about the benefits of having a business mentor, tips for growing a general contractor business, and the average number of employees in small businesses in the US.
Time Stamps
[00:43] Kenneth’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:29] Kenneth’s experience with management blueprints
[06:42] The benefits of joining a peer group for CEOs and entrepreneurs
[08:05] Why every entrepreneur needs a business mentor
[10:30] The key differences between a general contractor and a specialist subcontractor
[12:44] Roles and responsibilities of a general contractor
[14:36] How general contractors get new business
[17:32] Negotiated contracts versus competitive bidding
[19:56] Why Ken and his team love bidding against other industry giants in their space
[23:09] Tips for growing a general contractor type of business
[27:36] Why sometimes it doesn’t make sense to grow your business
[29:44] The average number of employees in most small businesses in the US
[33:34] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Ken’s LinkedIn
Northpointbuilder.com
Get in touch with Ken and his team via: 410-477-8541.
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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Charles Frydenborg is the CEO of MarketMuse, an AI-driven platform that helps transform how content creators research, plan, and craft their content. We talk about how to keep up with Google’s ever-changing search algorithm, the key elements of an effective content marketing strategy, and why written content is here to stay.
Time Stamps
[00:32] Getting to know Charles Frydenborg
[02:34] Charles’ experience with management blueprints
[04:51] Charles shares his favorite parts of the EOS framework
[06:09] How MarketMuse helps businesses improve the quality of their content
[08:23] How to keep up with Google’s ever-changing search algorithm
[09:48] The key elements of an efficient content marketing strategy
[14:22] Natural Language Generation(NLG) and why it’s so important
[14:53] The future of content marketing
[17:37] The growth of video content and why written content is here to stay
[18:47] The biggest challenges affecting AI-powered software companies
[20:43] MarketMuse’s big, hairy, audacious goals
[21:35] How to measure and create good quality content
[23:22] Become an expert in your content creation strategy
[25:04] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Charles’ LinkedIn
Marketmuse.com
Charles’ email address: Charles@Marketmuse.com
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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Saleema Vellani is an award-winning innovation strategist, serial entrepreneur, professor, and author of the book Innovation Starts With ‘I.’ She is also the Founder and CEO of Ripple Impact, an accelerator and community that helps entrepreneurs grow their businesses. We talk about innovation in today’s business environment, how to future-proof your business, and the benefits of adopting a hybrid-preneurship lifestyle.
Time Stamps
[00:37] Saleema’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:57] Ripple Impact’s core mission and business framework
[06:51] Saleema’s experience with management blueprints
[10:14] Understanding the Business Positioning Canvas
[10:58] Why Saleema wrote the book Innovation Starts with I
[14:45] How to Future-Proof your business
[16:43] How technology is disrupting the workplace and replacing workers
[18:31] Why you need to embrace the hybrid-preneurship lifestyle
[20:16] Understanding the concept of hybrid-preneurship
[22:59] Sweet Spot Mapping and why it’s so effective
[25:14] The history of Saleema’s Action Priority Matrix
[26:08] Stages of an entrepreneur’s journey to success
[28:58] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Saleema’s LinkedIn
Saleemavellani.com
Rippleimpact.co
Innovation Starts With I by Saleema Vellani
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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Pramod Raheja is the CEO and co-founder of Airgility, a leading designer and manufacturer of autonomous, unmanned aerial systems (UAS). He is also a pilot with 25 years of experience captaining passenger flights with United Airlines. We talk about the unmanned aerial systems industry, the benefits of having a daily/weekly huddle, and the effectiveness of work management systems.
Time Stamps
[00:47] How does a pilot juggle between entrepreneurship and flying planes?
[02:16] Pramod’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:42] How Pramod got into the franchising business
[06:10] Pramod’s experience with management blueprints
[08:06] The benefits of modifying a management blueprint to fit your business
[08:51] The weekly Huddle and why it’s so important
[11:05] Monday.com: Pramod’s go-to work management software
[12:31] Work management systems and dashboards
[14:58] Dissecting the unmanned aerial systems market
[17:36] Safety protocols for unmanned aerial systems
[19:26] Trends and future market projections for the drone industry
[21:23] Accurate drone hovering and other tech advancements in the drone industry
[24:04] AI use in unmanned aerial systems
[25:36] Drone legislation and safety regulations in the US
[27:26] Growth drivers for Pramod’s company Airgility
[32:11] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Pramod’s LinkedIn
Airgility.com
Monday.com
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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Geoff McDonald is the CEO and President of Geoff McDonald and Associates, a leading injury law firm focused on protecting injury victims and their families from insurance companies. We talk about the results-only work environment, the 20-mile march in business, how businesses can find their core focus.
Time Stamps
[00:33] Jeff’s entrepreneurial journey
[06:03] Entrepreneurship: From humble beginnings to building empires
[07:47] Geoff’s experience with management blueprints
[12:58] OKR management for budding teams
[16:06] The Results-Only Work Environment (ROWE)
[18:49] What is a Core Focus?
[23:06] How Geoff and his team strive to be servants
[26:23] Understanding the 20-mile march concept
[29:55] The one phrase that perfectly describes Jeff’s company
[32:51] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Mcdonaldinjurylaw.com
Geoff’s Contact Information - 804-888-8888
Mastering the Rockefeller Habits by Verne Harnish
Traction by Gino Wickman
Measure What Matters by John Doerr
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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Don Neal is the Founder of 360 Live media, an award-winning event strategy, marketing, and design agency that helps associations maximize the impact of their events. We talk about the reasons why people attend events, the rise of the experience economy, and the effectiveness of a premium pricing strategy.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Don Neal's entrepreneurial journey
[01:35] The scary aspects of Don’s entrepreneurial quest
[02:37] The building of a strategic business plan
[05:01] Don’s experience with management blueprints
[07:05] How to emotionally detach yourself from your business
[09:51] The four dimensions and the six R's in Don’s management blueprint
[13:16] Reasons why people attend events
[15:22] The rise of the experience economy
[16:59] How 360 Live Media pivoted to virtual events during the pandemic
[19:25] How Don used trust to convince his clients to move with him to the virtual events space
[20:32] Premium pricing strategies and why they can be so effective
[23:16] Leading strategic change in associations
[28:01] How Don successfully sold his company
[30:51] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Don's LinkedIn
360 Live Media
The Experience Economy by Joseph Pine
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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Susanna Wu-Pong Calvert is the Founder and Executive Director of the Foundation for Family and Community Healing, a non-profit dedicated to helping others learn to create positive and rewarding relationships with each other and the earth. We talk about our relationship with the earth, practical ways to start listening to your inner voice, and the path to self-transcendence.
Timestamps
[00:47] How to become a social entrepreneur
[02:37] The Emotional and Intuitive Leadership framework
[05:55] Transform your life with the power of your inner voice
[08:48] Practical ways to start listening to your inner voice
[12:13] Susanna's approach to teaching people how to listen to their inner voice
[14:48] Key characteristics of purposeful living
[18:20] Understanding our relationship with the earth
[22:34] Philosophy of caretaking: Caring for and healing the earth
[26:36] What a 'transcendent lifestyle' really entails
[29:38] How to clear the path to self‐transcendence
[34:48] What it means to be a social entrepreneur in the non-profit space
[36:29] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Susanna's LinkedIn
Susanna's email: Susanna@familyandcommunityhealing.org.
Healingedu.org
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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David Warschawski is the CEO & Founder of Warschawski, the #1 rated U.S. marketing communications agency. He is also the founder and managing partner of W Ventures, a VC firm that provides early-stage startups with venture capital, marketing support, office space, and mentorship. We talk about brand values, emotive branding, and the effectiveness of intent-based marketing.
Timestamps
[00:47] David’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:58] David’s experience with management blueprints
[03:56] Brand values: A competitive advantage for your business
[06:51] The circle of goal setting
[08:12] Values that define Warschawski’s brand
[08:54] Making your brand stand out with emotive branding
[10:25] How emotional branding helps businesses stand out from the competition
[11:36] Practical examples of emotive branding
[14:56] How emotional branding speaks to consumers’ heart
[16:44] Clever ways to make your digital agency stand out
[21:17] David’s definition of “marketing against intent”
[22:45] Intent-based marketing and why it’s so effective
[24:57] The pros and cons of the spray and pray marketing approach
[26:21] Most effective ways of identifying and evaluating early-stage companies
[28:33] A simple but effective marketing strategy for startups
[31:08] Why data-driven marketing is more effective than making informed guesses
[32:09] W Ventures’ startup investment strategy
[36:06] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
David’s LinkedIn
Warschawski.com
WVenturesLLC.com
Beyond Entrepreneurship by James Collins
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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David Jenyns is the founder of Systemology and the author of the best-selling book with the same title, where he helps business owners systemize their businesses. We talk about the Systemology framework, the benefits of consistently updating your business systems, and the difference between a scalable and a sellable system.
Timestamps
[01:03] David's entrepreneurial journey
[02:54] David's experience with management blueprints
[04:36] Greatest lessons learned from Gino Wickman's Traction
[07:38] Events that inspired David to develop the Systemology blueprint
[10:53] Understanding the Systemology framework
[13:56] The first step to implementing the Systemology framework
[17:36] Process creation in the Systemology framework
[21:11] The difference between a scalable and a sellable system
[23:54] Business systems maintenance and why it's important
[26:48] The benefits of consistently updating your business systems
[30:17] Best practices when using documented systems
[33:42] Essential resources that shaped the Systemology framework
[37:14] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
David's LinkedIn
Systemology.com
The Goal by Eliyahu M. Goldratt
Traction by Gino Wickman
Buyable: Your Guide to Building a Self-Managing, Fast-Growing, and High-Profit Business
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TK Eppley is a former Navy SEAL and the president of Vayu Aerospace Corporation, a company that builds affordable American drones for cargo transport over difficult terrains. They talk about the future of the drone industry, values that define a great company culture, and the empathy and accountability framework.
Time Stamps
[00:31] TK's entrepreneurial journey
[01:37] TK's experience with management blueprints
[04:36] Understanding the empathy and accountability framework
[07:46] Empathy in business and why it's so important
[10:28] Value and the things that define a great company culture
[13:19] Essential skills necessary for growing a drone company
[15:38] The types of drones available at Vayu Aerospace
[18:06] How Vayu Aerospace stands out from the competition
[19:31] The future of the drone industry
[23:48] Safety regulations for drones and unmanned aircraft systems
[25:15] Navigation protocols and controls for unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs)
[27:26] Air traffic control rules for drones and UAVs
[28:51] TK views on the future of the UAV industry
[31:07] Will Amazon and Walmart ever deliver goods via drones?
[33:04] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
TK's LinkedIn
Alpine4.com
Vayuaerospace.com
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Mel Engle is the CEO & Chairman of the Board at Predictive Oncology, a knowledge-driven company focused on applying artificial intelligence to personalized medicine and drug discovery. We talk about the role of AI in the battle against cancer, the Five Fingers Formula, and the future of cancer care and research.
Time Stamps
[00:28] Mel’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:29] Mel’s experience with management blueprints
[05:44] The Five Fingers Formula and achieving goals
[07:17] Predictive Oncology’s mission and why it’s so important
[10:33] The role of artificial intelligence in the battle with cancer
[12:37] AI in cancer research and data analytics
[15:05] How Mel and his team prioritize on the type of cancer they need to work on
[17:13] Predictive Oncology and their several subsidiary companies
[18:38] Mel reveals the biggest challenges he’s faced while growing his business
[19:54] Business opportunities in the cancer research space
[21:31] Predictive Oncology’s long term vision
[22:37] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Mel’s LinkedIn
Predictve-oncology.com
Mel’s Email: MEngle@predictive-oncology.com
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Andrew Miller is the co-founder and VP of strategy at Workshop Digital, a search engine marketing agency that helps sales teams generate and convert sales qualified leads. We talk about the cost of customer acquisition, task-relevant maturity, and understanding the ROI of your marketing efforts.
Time Stamps
[00:31] Andrew’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:16] Andrew’s experience with management blueprints
[06:01] What is Task Relevant Maturity?
[10:00] How CEOs can prioritize their marketing activities
[14:52] Why your brand doesn’t have to be everywhere to win in marketing
[18:06] Understanding the ROI of your marketing efforts
[21:30] Lead generation and the cost of customer acquisition
[25:49] How small businesses can get the most out of their marketing efforts
[29:22] Sales Qualified Leads versus Marketing Qualified Leads
[33:33] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Andrew’s LinkedIn
High Output Management by Andy Grove
Traction by Gino Wickman
WorkshopDigital.com
Andrew’s email: Andrew@workshopdigital.com
The CMO Survey Website
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Tyler Pigott is the Founder and CEO of Lone Fir Creative, a digital marketing agency that gives structure to an entrepreneur’s vision. We talk about the StoryBrand framework, practical brand strategies, and how emotions influence buying behaviors.
Time Stamps
[00:27] Tyler’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:20] How entrepreneurs develop visions for their business
[04:48] Tyler’s experience with management blueprints
[07:23] The StoryBrand framework and how to get the most out of it
[10:23] Understanding the hero’s journey in the StoryBrand framework
[12:03] How emotions influence buying behaviors
[13:33] Dissecting Tyler’s concept of an ambitious brand
[16:24] Reasons why some businesses decide against pursuing growth
[17:53] What is brand strategy?
[20:45] The relationship between brand strategy and business growth
[22:42] How small businesses articulate brand promises
[23:48] Principles for finding your brand’s point of view
[26:35] The importance of building your company’s “Why”
[31:39] How to methodically build your marketing muscle
[35:32] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Tyler’s LinkedIn
LoneFirCreative.com
Building a StoryBrand by Donald Miller
The E-Myth by Michael Gerber
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Joe Newton is the owner of EIJ Solutions, a process consulting company that empowers entrepreneurs to find freedom through their business. We talk about the SYSTEMology framework, the benefits of having a systems champion, and practical steps towards business process optimization.
Timestamps
[00:36] Joe’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:18] Why all entrepreneurs need to systemize their businesses
[04:15] Comparing SYSTEMology to other management blueprints
[08:11] How to start systemizing your business
[09:55] The Stationery stage in the SYSTEMology framework
[11:03] The importance of buy-in and culture in framework success
[12:50] How and why you need to document your business process
[14:05] The process of scaling a systematized business framework
[16:57] Team training on how to implement business processes
[22:02] Business process management and why it’s crucial for systems success
[25:07] The benefits of having a systems champion
[28:15] Practical steps towards business process optimization
[31:15] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Joe’s LinkedIn
EIJ Solutions
GSD Mode Podcast
SYSTEMology by David Jenyns
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Chris DeJong is a former US national swimmer and the Founder & President of Big Blue Swim School, one of America's fastest-growing swim school franchises. We talk about how successful entrepreneurs franchise their businesses, what diversity can do for your business, and effective time management tips for entrepreneurs.
Timestamps
[00:34] Chris' journey from swimming into entrepreneurship
[02:59] Chris' experience with management blueprints
[07:48] Why entrepreneurs need to have flexible visions
[08:50] How to become ruthlessly efficient with your time
[11:28] When should a process be an art, not a science?
[16:15] Deep Blue Swim School and what makes it so special
[19:54] How and why you need to continuously solve customer problems
[22:35] Practical frameworks for getting great ideas from your team
[24:49] How Chris successfully franchised his business
[27:10] Why the Big Blue Swim School is such an attractive franchise
[30:01] Diversity as a lever for your business
[32:59] The link between diversity and business success
[37:17] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Chris' LinkedIn
Big Blue Swim School Website
Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown
The Innovation Stack by Jim McKelvey
It's Your Ship by Captain D. Michael Abrashoff
When Should a Process Be Art, Not Science?
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Tigran Nazaryan is the Co-founder and CEO of 10Web.io, an automated WordPress platform powered by Google Cloud that helps relieve the burden of manual website building operations. We talk about website automation, disruption-led growth, and the difference between shared and cloud website hosting.
Timestamps
[00:36] Tigran's entrepreneurial journey
[01:52] Why Tigran and his partners founded 10Web.io
[03:00] Tigran's experience with management blueprints
[05:44] Business processes and why they are so important
[09:58] How Tigran and his team came up with the Four Ps in their management blueprint
[12:02] What is a WordPress plugin
[17:06] Convert any website to WordPress
[17:58] How and why you need to start automating your WordPress site
[20:40] Comparing the differences in services offered by AWS and 10Web.io
[23:43] WordPress pros and cons: When you should use it (and when you should not)
[25:46] WordPress for eCommerce
[26:53] Disruption-led growth and why it's so important
[29:30] The key differences between shared and cloud hosting
[31:16] The fast growth approach for SaaS companies
[35:15] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Tigran's LinkedIn
10Web.io
10Web's YouTube Channel
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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RJ Grimshaw is the president and CEO of UniFi, an equipment financing company. We talk about the ABLE leadership framework, the concept of intrapreneurship, and break down the world of equipment financing.
Timestamps
[01:22] The similarities between building a business and running a sports team
[03:12] RJ’s entrepreneurial journey
[06:36] RJ’s experience managing different types of businesses
[08:52] Equipment financing: What is it and how does it work?
[09:17] RJ’s experience with management blueprints
[15:00] The ABLE leadership framework
[18:38] Defining leverage from a business perspective
[21:24] The importance of having options when running a business
[23:26] Dissecting Peter Drucker’s The Effective Executive
[26:52] Why sometimes change is a good thing
[27:41] What is intrapreneurship and who is an intrapreneur?
[31:40] Why intrapreneurs are dream employees
[33:46] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
RJ’s LinkedIn
The Effective Executive by Peter Drucker
The E-Myth Revisited by Michael E. Gerber
RJ’s website
RJ on Twitter
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Stormie Andrews is the president of Yokel Local, an inbound marketing agency and HubSpot partner that helps companies generate revenue, reduce sales cycles, and increase customer lifetime value. We talk about the world’s best buyer persona system, customer delight, and the six-step inbound marketing methodology.
Time Stamps
[00:30] Stormie's entrepreneurial journey
[01:58] Stormie's experience with management blueprints
[05:36] Strata levels of work and organizational structure
[20:08] Introducing the World's Best Buyer Persona System
[11:26] The definition of a 'digital employee'
[14:14] How to identify your ideal buyer persona
[17:58] Why most companies have multiple buyer personas
[19:45] Buyer personas in the franchise space
[21:51] Emotional messaging: What is it and how does it work?
[23:13] Applying Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs to sales and marketing
[25:35] Action and inaction beliefs
[27:21] How to use neuro-linguistic programming to improve your marketing efforts
[30:26] A practical illustration of neuro-linguistic programming
[34:31] Stormie's six-step inbound marketing methodology.
[38:41] What is customer delight?
[40:25] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Stormie’s LinkedIn
Stormie’s Website
The World's Best Buyer Persona System by Stormie Andrews
YokelLocal.com
Outbound Air by Tom Foster
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Steve Richard is the Chief-Evangelist and Co-Founder of ExecVision, a conversation intelligence platform built to drive change in human behavior. We talk about the sales management code, practical prospecting strategies, and the effectiveness of cold calling in today’s sales environment.
Time Stamps
[00:40] Steve’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:43] Steve’s experience with management blueprints
[06:58] The ROA sales framework
[08:42] Sales prospecting definition, techniques, and why it’s important
[10:54] Cracking the sales management code
[12:43] Steve’s “Outbound In” marketing strategy
[13:30] Is cold calling really dead?
[16:12] Data on the effectiveness of cold calling in diverse types of industries
[18:23] Practical and effective alternatives to cold calling
[21:49] The three by three sales research technique
[23:58] Defining the unscheduled expected call
[27:05] Pattern recognition and human intelligence in sales
[28:16] How to change behaviour and create a better sales culture within an organization
[32:02] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steve’s LinkedIn
ExecVision.io
Cracking the Sales Management Code by Jason Jordan and Michelle Vazzana
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Jeff Berkowitz is the Founder and CEO of Delve LLC, a competitive intelligence and risk advisory firm. We talk about managing reputation risk, business integrity, and the benefits of setting ethical boundaries with clients.
Time Stamps
[00:51] Jeff’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:35] Jeff’s experience with management blueprints
[05:01] The top business concepts currently being implemented at Delve
[09:02] Understanding the power of people culture in professional services firms
[11:34] What is reputation and political risk management?
[15:32] How to manage reputation risk by becoming a good corporate steward
[20:25] Why companies need to prepare for instances when their reputation is at stake
[23:14] Business integrity and why it’s important
[27:09] The vulnerabilities of corporate reputation
[31:15] How to set ethical boundaries with clients
[34:44] Why managing perceptions is crucial when dealing with corporate reputation
[37:39] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Jeff’s LinkedIn
DelveDC.com
Scaling Up by Verne Harnish
Traction by Gino Wickman
Good to Great by Jim Collins
The Advantage by Patrick M. Lencioni
30 Days by Marc Reklau
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Jim Lockwood is the co-founder of The Lockwood Group and serves as Vice President responsible for driving growth, creating value, and executing objectives across Lockwood’s markets. We talk about the concept of mission readiness, the IBM alignment model, and the gap between public and private sector infrastructure.
Timestamps
[00:44] Jim’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:09] Jim’s experience with management blueprints
[05:59] The rules Jim implemented from David Kriegman’s book Zero to a Billion
[08:00] The benefits of building your business around a well-defined vision and mission statement
[09:25] Private sector contracting versus public sector contracting
[12:05] The IBM alignment model in business
[13:29] How to become a mission-ready company
[16:09] Examples of mission readiness in the army
[19:19] The powerful benefits of being prepared in business
[21:27] How Jim and his company help soldiers in war solve their problems
[23:01] The gap between military and private sector infrastructure
[25:17] How the private sector can keep up with technological advancements in the military
[28:31] Jim and his company’s 10-year vision
[30:26] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Jim on LinkedIn
The Lockwood Group Website
Zero to a Billion by David Kriegman
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Marc Reklau is the founder of Maklau Publishing and author of 11 books, including the international bestsellers 30 DAYS and Love Yourself FIRST, which have sold over 600,000 copies worldwide. We talk about success habits, minimalism, and the benefits of practicing daily gratitude.
Timestamps
[00:44] Marc's journey into becoming an author-entrepreneur
[05:18] How successful people remain successful
[09:14] Lifetime value versus the cost of customer acquisition
[11:12] Interesting things you should know about living the creative life
[16:22] Proven frameworks for becoming a successful writer
[21:01] Success through hard work and resilience
[22:06] How to tap into your entrepreneurial energy
[23:40] What is minimalism?
[27:51] How to live a simplistic lifestyle
[29:06] Why you need to set clear and strict standards for your business
[29:56] The effective habits of highly successful people
[31:22] The how and why of practicing gratitude
[33:49] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Marc on LinkedIn
Good Habits Academy
Marc’s Website
30 Days - Change your habits, Change your life by Marc Reklau
How to Become a People Magnet by Marc Reklau
Love Yourself First! By Marc Reklau
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Stephen Ogburn is the Vice President of Ogburn Construction, a fast-growing family-owned concrete repair company in Central Virginia. We dissect Fredrick Laloux’s Reinventing Organizations and talk about how companies can shift from success-focused into people-focused organizations.
Timestamps
[00:35] Stephen’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:29] Leaving formal employment to join the family business
[03:21] Stephen’s experience with management blueprints
[05:11] Business models from Fredrick Laloux’s Reinventing Organizations
[09:38] The demerits of being a success-focused business
[11:31] How success-focused companies can transform into people-focused organizations
[14:12] What is self-management?
[18:19] How wholeness impacts productivity within organizations
[21:50] How to deal with difficult employees
[25:14] The link between core values and company success
[27:40] How companies can create and scale a people-focused culture
[33:13] Key processes to running a people-focused company
[36:10] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Stephen’s LinkedIn
Ogburn Construction, Inc.
Reinventing Organizations by Fredrick Laloux
Originals by Adam Grant
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Steve Hoffman (Captain Hoff) is the CEO of Founders Space, one of the world’s leading startup accelerators. We talk about the platform mentality in business, the process of venture capital financing, and define “Growth Hacking”.
Timestamps
[00:41] Steven's entrepreneurial journey
[02:13] The birth of Steven's startup accelerator
[03:30] The most entrepreneurial countries in the world
[05:52] Steve's experience with management blueprints
[10:31] Why businesses need to focus on providing maximum value for their customers
[11:48] How to choose the right business model for your startup
[15:51] The benefits of having flexible frameworks in business
[19:19] Breaking down the platform mentality in business
[20:47] Tips for growing business accounts in your existing customers
[22:12] How to build a simple business model from the ground up
[23:12] How to build a scalable business and attract venture capitals
[28:15] The process of venture capital financing
[33:01] What is growth hacking?
[38:45] How to build a company using the "Game Design Workshop" strategy
[40:25] The Founder's Dilemma: Bootstrap Startup versus Funded Ventures
[44:39] Why MailChimp is the perfect example of companies that successfully bootstrapped
[47:02] The scary future of AI
[48:46] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Steven's LinkedIn
FoundersSpace.com
Make Elephants Fly: The Process of Radical Innovation by Steven Hoffman
The Five Forces That Change Everything by Steven Hoffman
Surviving a Startup by Steven Hoffman
Game Design Workshop by Tracy Fullerton
Steve Preda's Book: Buyable
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Brian Burke is the founder and chief “Mac Man” at SellYourMac.com, the world’s most trusted and highest-rated Apple trade-in company. We talk about the booming market for second-hand Apple products, the benefits of exceptional customer service, and LinkedIn profile optimization strategies.
Timestamps
[00:34] Brian’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:21] The booming market for second-hand Apple products
[03:32] The type of Apple products Brian and his team purchase and the ones they don’t
[04:28] Brian’s experience with management blueprints
[06:50] The benefits of exceptional customer service
[08:42] Scaling customer service in a growing organization
[09:48] The average lifespan of Apple products
[12:32] How to know when it’s time to upgrade your computer or laptop
[12:47] Brian’s ideal buyer persona
[15:41] How personal touches drive repeat business
[16:50] Brian’s formula for building a solid company culture
[17:42] Sell Your Mac’s company purpose
[18:59] Brian’s 10-year vision for Sell Your Mac
[20:17] How to optimize your LinkedIn profile like a pro
[23:36] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Brian’s LinkedIn
SellYourMac.com
RenewedMacs.com
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
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Matthew Devost is the CEO and co-founder of OODA LLC, a strategic consulting firm that helps clients identify, manage, and respond to global risks, uncertainties, and emerging opportunities. We talk about hack-thinking, the OODA loop decision-making framework, and the predominant cyber security threats targeting small to medium-sized businesses.
Timestamps
[00:44] Matthew’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:24] Why the talent gap in the cyber security space is an industry crisis
[06:15] What is hacking, and how is it different from ethical hacking?
[08:50] Matthew’s experience with management blueprints
[12:40] Mathew’s opinion on “success is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration”
[14:19] The OODA loop concept and fast decision-making practices
[16:34] Hack think: Making decisions for the future
[19:10] Effective problem-solving techniques and chaos thinking
[21:11] Balancing risk and opportunity in cybersecurity
[25:00] How Matthew and his team provide tools to help clients make cyber security decisions
[29:02] The biggest cyber security risks targeting small to medium-sized businesses
[32:16] Cyber security and business process exploitation
[33:45] Parting Thoughts
Links and Resources
Matthew’s LinkedIn
Matthew’s Website: OODA.com
The OODA Loop website
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
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Alinka Rutkowska is the CEO of Leaders Press, a USA Today and Wall Street Journal best-selling press. We talk about how writers can turn their books into bestsellers, the benefits of using books to grow your business and the differences between self-publishing and traditional publishing.
Timestamps
[00:52] Alinka’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:52] Why few people enjoy success with their first book
[03:47] Alinka talks about her first book
[05:13] Alinka’s experience with management blueprints
[08:27] Asana App: What is it and how to use it
[11:29] EOS integrators and the critical role they play within an organization
[15:08] How to use books to grow your business
[20:07] Why your books don’t have to be bestsellers to help you grow your business
[21:48] The different types of best sellers and how they are ranked
[25:56] Self-publishing versus traditional publishing
[29:30] The advantages of using a traditional publisher
[32:50] The pros and cons of setting up a book with IngramSpark
[34:01] The benefits of using Simon and Schuster to publish and distribute your books
[36:06] Parting thoughts
Links and Resources
Alinka’s LinkedIn
Alinka’s Website: LeadersPress.com
Traction by Gino Wickman
Outsource your Book by Alinka Rutkowska
Asana Project Management Software
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Steve Salis is a serial consumer brand entrepreneur and investor. His company, Salis Holdings, has ownership interests in 14 companies in a diverse spectrum of industries, including technology, food and beverage, hospitality, and real estate. We talk about why the private equity business model is broken, what millennial employees want from their jobs, and the key differences between a specialist and a generalist in your business.
Timestamps
[00:39] Steve’s entrepreneurial journey
[05:44] How Steve launched and scaled his pizza business
[13:41] Why Steve believes the private equity business model is broken
[18:32] Steve’s experience with management blueprints
[24:16] The benefits of having an intelligence engine in your business
[30:19] The business maturation process and why you must understand it
[31:19] How to differentiate the rockstars and the superstars in your business
[33:30] How to professionalize your business growth trajectory
[35:28] The key differences between a specialist and a generalist
[37:40] Why not everyone in your business is meant for leadership
[40:05] What millennial employees want from their jobs
[43:22] Steve’s new consumer platform: Catalogue.co
Links and Resources
Steve Salis’ LinkedIn
Salis Holdings Company Website
The Catalogue Consumer Platform
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Mfon Akpan is an Assistant Professor of Accounting at Methodist University. He’s also the author of ten books and three audiobooks on business, technology, and innovation. We talk about virtual reality’s influence on today’s businesses, why social media is crucial for business success, and the Eisenberg Earned Media Value Index.
Timestamps
[00:42] Mfon’s journey from finance into being a professor and an author
[04:22] The common thread in most of Mfon’s books
[07:35] Summarizing Mfon’s book: A Hitchhiker’s Guide to Virtual Reality
[12:11] Practical examples of virtual reality’s influence in modern businesses
[14:51] Verizon’s plan to save lives using mixed reality
[15:28] The future of social media for businesses
[17:31] Why social media is crucial for business success
[18:13] How to measure social media effectiveness
[19:52] The Eisenberg earned media value index
[26:35] What is social capital, and how can it benefit your business?
[28:14] How much of your marketing budget should go into social media?
[31:20] Social media campaigns and earned media
Links and Resources
Mfon’s LinkedIn Page
Mfon’s Website
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to Virtual Reality
Mfon’s TEDx Talk
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
Complete the Buyability Assessment for Your Business
Jim Barnish is the Founder and Managing Partner at Orchid Black, a growth services firm that helps tech-forward companies build better game-changing businesses. We talk about finding your ideal client profile, value creation strategies for flatlining companies, and dissect Aaron Ross’ Predictable Revenue.
Timestamps
[00:29] Jim’s entrepreneurial journey
[01:49] Jim’s exit from the family business and launching Orchid Black
[04:58] Orchid Black’s mission to grow and maximize exit value for tech business
[06:49] How to define, measure, and assess value creation in companies
[09:11] Value creation strategies for flatlining companies
[13:31] What is Predictable Revenue?
[16:21] Dissecting Aaron Ross’ Predictable Revenue
[18:44] The Three-Tier Organizational Sales Strategy
[22:31] Product-market fit: What is it and why is it important
[24:42] Key Differences between product-market fit and minimal viable product
[26:48] How to find your ideal client profile
Links and Resources
Jim’s LinkedIn Page
Jim’s Website Orchid Black
Predictable Revenue by Aaron Ross
Orchid Black’s Market Insights
Reach out to Jim via email
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
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Harsha Rajasimha is the founder and CEO of Jeeva Informatics Solutions, a company that provides SaaS products to clinical researchers and biotech sponsors to help accelerate remote patient recruitment. We talk about key metrics that define a successful SaaS company, the common issues that affect patients during clinical trials, and the FDA vaccine testing and approval process.
Timestamps
[01:05] Harsha’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:30] Harsha’s experience with The Startup Owners Manual
[07:50] The nine components of the Business Model Canvas
[10:25] How to get better at listening to your customers
[11:20] The FDA vaccine testing and approval process
[15:10] Patient recruitment, enrollment, and retention in clinical trials
[20:03] Enhancing clinical trial enrolment strategies
[21:31] Tackling the common issues among patients during clinical trials
[24:10] The key metrics that define a successful SaaS company
[27:10] Harsha’s go-to resources for SaaS entrepreneurs
[28:26] Jeeva’s five-year strategic vision for growth
Links and Resources
Harsha’s LinkedIn Page
Harsha’s Twitter Handle
Jeeva Informatics Solutions Website
Platform Revolution by Geoffrey G. Parker
Startup Owners Manual by Steve Blank and Bob Dorf
Steve Preda’s Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment for your business
Daniel Blue is the owner of Quest Education, a company that helps entrepreneurs obtain capital, pay off high-interest debt, and use self-directed retirement accounts to invest in alternative assets. We talk about self-directed investing, the Wall Street trap, and how to use retirement money for investments with zero penalties or taxes.
Timestamps
[00:39] Daniel's entrepreneurial journey
[02:30] How to use retirement money for investment
[04:25] Daniel's experience with management blueprints
[06:39] Implementing EOS for healthy business growth
[08:31] What is self-directed investing, and why is it important?
[09:41] How to use retirement accounts to invest in real estate
[12:49] How to avoid the Wall Street trap
[16:08] Dissecting the Solo 401K
[18:28] Quest Education's Big, Hairy, Audacious Goals
[20:54] Quest Education's network of financial planners
Links and Resources
Daniel's LinkedIn Page
Daniel' Forbes Profile
Traction by Gino Wickman
Quest Education's Website
Daniel's Website
How Winners Win Podcast
Steve's Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Lynn Whitbeck is the President and CEO of Future Forward Sales, a specialist B2B sales consulting business focusing on the process, methods, and psychology of sales development. We talk about the customer journey map, emotions during the sales process, and the ever-evolving relationship between sales and marketing.
Timestamps
[00:40] Lynn Whitbeck's entrepreneurial journey
[02:35] The links between sales and leadership
[04:19] Lynn's experience with management blueprints
[07:28] How to create a practical customer journey map
[10:22] How to address the gaps in your customer experience strategy
[11:45] Think like your customer or lose the sale
[13:40] Driving sales with powerful emotional triggers
[16:40] The ever-evolving relationship between sales and marketing
[19:30] Understanding the customer 'why' and why it matters
[22:20] Why asking the right questions is crucial for the sales process
Links and Resources
Lynn's LinkedIn Page
The Petite2Queen Website
Future Forward Sales
The Future Forward Sales Podcast
The Guest Podcasting Master Class
Steve's Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Sathya Elumalai is the President and CEO of Aidar Health, a healthcare technology and digital therapeutics company reimagining today’s chronic care management and health monitoring. We talk about the impact of digital health technologies on medicine, Mouth Lab's quest to reinvent rapid health assessment, and the importance of technological synergy in medicine.
Timestamps
[00:45] Sathya's entrepreneurial journey
[03:26] Sathya's transition from medicine into entrepreneurship
[06:38] Unboss and Sathya's experience with management blueprints
[10:05] Mouth Lab's quest to reinvent rapid health assessment
[12:44] Hacking daily health through the mouth
[15:50] Sathya's plan to grow and scale Aidar Health
[17:40] Mouth Lab's partners and investors
[19:03] The impact of digital health technologies on medicine
[24:01] The importance of technological synergy in medicine
[27:01] Aidar Health's five-year goal
[29:58] Touching a billion lives through personalized healthcare
Links and Resources
Sathya's LinkedIn Page
Sathya's Website
Sathya's contact email: CEO@Aidar.com
Steve's Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Dave Turano is the President of JCE Consulting, helping organizations improve leadership, communication, and sales, and the host of Cut Through the Noise Podcast. We talk about the habits of highly successful businesses, the overlooked benefits of daily standup meetings, and why great leaders don’t tolerate mediocrity.
Timestamps
[00:57] Dave’s entrepreneurial journey
[00:37] Dave’s experience with management blueprints
[06:50] Habits of highly successful businesses
[08:35] The overlooked benefits of daily standup meetings
[09:40] Why one-to-one meetings are crucial to your team’s success
[11:30] Peer-to-peer accountability in the workplace
[14:50] How to build or repair trust in an organization
[18:40] Leading with trust: how to build trust in your team
[20:40] Leadership fundamentals: transparency and trust
[22:40] The connection between vulnerability and trust in teams
[24:50] Authentic vulnerability and leadership
[27:15] How to tackle difficult conversations
[30:20] Why great leaders do not tolerate mediocrity
[32:37] Why ego is the biggest barrier to successful leadership
Links and Resources
Tribal Leadership by Dave Logan
Delivering Happiness by Tony Hsieh
The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg
The Speed of Trust by Stephen Covey
Radical Candor by Kim Scott
The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
Dave’s LinkedIn Page
Dave’s Website
Cut Through the Noise Podcast
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Sam Gupta is the CEO and Principal Consultant at ElevatIQ, a digital transformation consulting firm focusing on business process automation, customer experience, continuous improvement, and marketing automation. We talk about human capital management, the art of incremental implementation, and why having the right people is crucial for digital transformations.
[00:45] Sam’s entrepreneurial journey
[03:42] Sam’s experience with business frameworks
[07:33] Business units and the micro p&l
[12:01] Dissecting Predictable Revenue by Aaron Ross
[16:10] Management systems in the enterprise technology space
[18:02] What is Human Capital Management?
[21:04] How to choose, design, and integrate business management systems
[22:28] How to determine if your business needs multiple management systems
[26:30] The art of incremental implementation
[28:15] How to upgrade your business to a digital operating system
[32:14] When and how to digitize your business
[37:48] Why having the right people is crucial for digital transformations
Links and Resources
Sam’s Website ElevatIQ
Sam’s LinkedIn
Predictable Revenue by Aaron Ross
WBS Rocks Podcast
Get in touch with Sam and his team
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Andrew Rinaldi is the co-founder of Defendify, an all-in-one cybersecurity platform specifically built for organizations without in-house security teams. He is also the founding partner of Steady Vision, one of Boston’s oldest full-service digital agencies. We talk about cybersecurity for small businesses, organizational alignment, and the benefits of layered security systems.
Timestamps
[00:48] Andrew’s entrepreneurial journey
[01:50] Andrew’s transition from digital marketing into cybersecurity
[03:20] Cybersecurity for small businesses
[05:20] The availability of cybersecurity systems for small businesses
[07:20] Top 3 internet security threats faced by small businesses
[09:10] Dissecting the benefits of layered security systems
[10:50] Why are cybercriminals always a step ahead?
[13:40] Common types of cyberattacks and how to prevent them
[15:40] Ransomware explained: How it works and how to counter it
[16:55] Andrew’s experience with management blueprints
[18:20] Defendify’s vision and mission statements
[20:25] The unique aspects of Defendify’s cybersecurity platform
[22:11] The benefits of organizational alignment
[23:15] How to develop a cybersecurity plan for your business
[26:53] The advantages of using a password manager
Links and Resources
Andrew’s LinkedIn
Andrew’s Website
Steve's Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
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Gail Doby and Erin Weir are the co-founders of Gail Doby Coaching and Consulting, a consulting company that helps interior designers build thriving and fulfilling businesses. Gail is also the author of Business Breakthrough: Your Creative Value Blueprint to Get Paid What You’re Worth. We talk about entrepreneurship for interior designers, why you need system integrators for your business, and creating a long-term vision for your business.
Timestamps
[00:50] Gail’s entrepreneurial journey
[02:25] Entrepreneurship for interior designers
[04:10] Cultivating the entrepreneurial mindset
[05:15] Business models and system integrators
[07:20] Gail’s transition from interior design into entrepreneurship
[09:07] How to check if your business idea is sustainable
[12:16] How to build and execute an effective coaching program
[15:28] Entrepreneurship and management in the creative industry
[18:56] Coaching and consulting for creative business owners
[20:45] Dissecting the Gail Doby coaching program
[22:50] How to create a long-term vision for your business
[24:45] Gail’s experience with management blueprints
Links and Resources
The Gail Doby Website
Gail’s new book: Business Breakthrough
Gail’s Instagram Page
The Creative Genius Podcast
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Jon Tsourakis is the President and Chief Revenue Officer at Oyova, a national marketing and application development agency. He is also the founder and president of Central Comp, an ancillary services provider helping TPAs and self-insured employers offer the best care at the best price. We talk about digital marketing strategies, personalizing marketing campaigns, and consistently creating value for your customers.
Timestamps
[01:02] Jon’s entrepreneurial journey
[01:56] How to overcome post-merger integration challenges
[04:23] Jon’s experience with management blueprints
[05:20] Implementing EOS for healthy business growth
[07:20] Practical tips for growing a successful business
[09:01] How to get your business in front of potential customers
[10:34] Managing and leveraging social media use for your business
[12:45] The best business marketing strategies in 2021
[15:04] The future of marketing; predictions and trends for 2021 and beyond
[16:40] How to effectively personalize your marketing campaigns
[17:45] Leadership and team-building
[20:05] How to strategically scale your sales process
[25:40] How to find and target your social media audience
[26:45] B2B marketing strategies for small businesses
[31:15] Pros and cons of inbound marketing
[34:07] How to consistently create value for your customers
Links and Resources
Jon’s LinkedIn
The Digital Mastermind Group
Jon’s Website
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Julio Gonzalez is the CEO and Founder of Engineered Tax Services, the country’s largest specialty tax engineering firm specializing in the preservation of wealth through IRS engineering-based services. He is also the CEO of Growth Partnership, the only full-service multi-disciplinary consulting firm serving accounting professionals. We talk about tax engineering, tax incentives for small to medium-sized businesses, and work opportunity tax credits.
Timestamps
[01:13] Julio’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:09] How to set up tax-efficient structures for small to medium-sized businesses
[07:02] Julio’s experience with management blueprints
[10:01] Tax engineering and its effect on small businesses
[13:05] Tax incentives for real estate investing
[16:40] Money-saving tax strategies for small businesses
[20:10] Understanding the research and development tax credit
[22:17] Energy tax credits for small to medium-sized businesses
[23:54] Payback periods for energy-efficient investing
[25:30] Dissecting work opportunity tax credits
[26:50] How the work opportunity tax credit can help your small business
[28:06] How to take advantage of multiple tax incentives
[29:40] Tax disputes resolution and controversy services
Links and Resources
Julio’s LinkedIn
Julio’s website
The Growth Partnership website
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Chelle Johnson is a seasoned career and talent leader, strategist and coach with over 20 years of experience with medium-sized to fortune 50 companies. She is also the founder and CEO of Best You Career Advantage, an online visionary career coaching service that supports clients through all stages of career search and development. We talk about attracting the best talents, the benefits of emotional onboarding, and creating a culture of inclusivity, diversity, and belonging.
Timestamps
[00:50] Chelle’s journey into entrepreneurship
[02:23] Why talent acquisition is vital for business success
[04:26] Talent acquisition strategies, processes, and best practices
[05:35] Private Employer Organizations and how they can help your business
[06:34] Interview tools and how to improve your onboarding process
[08:45] How to create a culture of belonging
[11:50] The benefits of emotional onboarding
[13:11] What today's employees expect from their employer
[14:40] How to attract and retain top talents for your business
[17:35] The highly effective ways to build connections with your employees
[19:15] How to collect and analyze employee feedback
[20:50] Chelle’s experience with management blueprints
[23:12] Essential elements of a powerful story brand
[25:20] Using social responsibility to attract top talents
[31:21] An overview of workplace diversity, inclusion, and belonging
Links and Resources
Chelle’s LinkedIn
Chelle’s Facebook Page
Chelle’s Website
The Culture Code by Daniel Coyle
The Power of Moments by Chip Heath
Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Sheila Farragher-Gemma is the President of FarGem Corp and owner of Connected Sponsor, a sales and marketing company that helps clients maximize sponsorship opportunities through creative lead generation. She is also a serial entrepreneur with multiple successful exits in real estate, child services, office supplies, and networking. We talk about finding and managing strategic sponsors, the profitable sale of a business, and why companies fail to attract and retain strategic sponsors and partners.
Timestamps
[00:44] Sheila’s journey into entrepreneurship
[02:25] How companies developed thriving work-from-home strategies pre-Covid
[03:28] What is a Lean Startup?
[04:10] How Sheila successfully built, scaled, and profitably sold multiple businesses
[07:10] Strategic partnerships and leveraging opportunities through Connected Sponsors
[08:32] How strategic partnerships can help leverage business growth
[10:49] Understanding the benefits of strategic sponsorships
[15:15] How to create win-win strategic partnerships
[16:12] Sheila’s experience with management blueprints
[18:05] Sheila’s go-to software when creating leads and sales funnels
[18:05] Why online entrepreneurs should use ClickFunnels
[19:30] Everything you need to know about ClickFunnels
[21:03] How to profitably sell your business
[24:40] Reasons why companies fail to attract and retain strategic sponsors and partners
[26:29] Creative sponsorship and partnership packages for your business
Links and Resources
Sheila’s LinkedIn
Sheila’s Website
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Jason Sherman is a successful entrepreneur, award-winning filmmaker, journalist, and tech startup expert. He is also the host of Strap on Your Boots Podcast and author of Strap on Your Boots: A realistic guide to building and scaling your startup. We talk about traits that define serial entrepreneurs, tips on scaling your business, and the power of data-driven decision-making.
Timestamps
[00:54] Jason’s journey into entrepreneurship
[03:20] The differences between a wantrepreneur and an entrepreneur
[08:40] Traits that define serial entrepreneurs
[11:35] Tech startups versus regular businesses
[15:10] Management frameworks Jason used to scale his businesses
[17:55] What is a minimum viable product?
[19:01] Reasons why most entrepreneurs fail
[21:57] Dissecting Jason’s book: Strap on Your Boots
[24:37] How to leverage data-driven decision-making to fuel growth
[26:40] Why your marketing needs to incorporate business storytelling
[29:05] Top tips on how to scale your business
[30:45] Essential skills every startup entrepreneur should possess
[34:10] How to become the CEO of a tech startup
[38:55] The Link between patience and long-term entrepreneurial success
Links and Resources
Jason’s Website
Jason’s Book: Strap on Your Boots
Jason’s Podcast
The Startup Essentials online course
Jason’s YouTube channel
The Entrepreneurial Genius by Gene Landrum
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Eric Dickmann is the CEO of the Five Echelon Group, a virtual CMO and strategic marketing advisory service provider for SMBs looking for growth and profitability. We talk about digital transformation, marketing automation, and how to remove friction in the buyer's journey.
Timestamps
[00:50] Eric's transition from the corporate world into entrepreneurship
[02:37] Successful frameworks from Oracle that SMBs can implement
[04:10] How consistency affects every aspect of your business
[06:25] What is digital transformation?
[07:44] Elements of s successful digital transformation strategy
[10:13] Benefits of using integrative tools
[12:12] How to simplify and accelerate your digital transformation
[14:05] Cost-efficient hiring of software specialists
[15:40] Marketing automation and why it's crucial for business growth
[18:10] Friction in the buyer's journey
[23:09] How to eliminate friction in your buyer's journey
[25:32] The best marketing automation software
[27:17] Why you need to have a marketing strategy
[32:21] How to hire your marketing dream team
Links and Resources
Eric's Website
Erik's LinkedIn
The Virtual CMO Podcast
Duct Tape Marketing
Steve's New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Brimstone is a serial entertainment entrepreneur boasting a successful and rewarding career spanning well over three decades; participating in numerous entertainment fields such as pro wrestling, radio, and acting. We talk about his experience running multiple businesses, entrepreneurship in the entertainment industry, and the life of a pro wrestler.
Timestamps
[01:25] Entrepreneurship in the entertainment industry
[03:55] Brimstone’s journey into entrepreneurship
[09:50] The Brimstone brand in a nutshell
[13:35] How Brimstone runs his brand
[22:30] How to run multiple business ventures
[26:32] Brimstone’s idea of an ideal legacy
[27:45] What Brimstone would have differently early on in his life
[31:25] Business frameworks Brimstone used to scale his business
[36:45] Success tips for young and aspiring entertainment entrepreneurs
[38:50] All you need to know about pro wrestling
[41:28] Brimstone’s upcoming projects
Links and Resources
Brimstone’s website
Brimstone’s Instagram
The Grindhouse Radio
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Tobin Lehman is the President and Lead Strategist at New North, a B2B digital marketing agency. He is also the author of Ride the Tornado: Continuously Improve Your Marketing Strategy in the Midst of Rapid Change, a marketing playbook that takes the mystery out of marketing. We discuss the impact of new technology on marketing, the RTS marketing framework, and using visuals and analytics to solve marketing problems.
Timestamps
[01:15] Tobin’s journey into entrepreneurship
[02:57] Using visuals and analytics to solve marketing problems
[05:45] Design thinking for marketing campaigns
[08:40] Dissecting the RTS marketing framework
[11:51] Building a timeframe for marketing success
[12:50] Assessing the effectiveness of short-term marketing campaigns
[14:42] Tobin’s thoughts on how to successfully launch and market a new book
[17:38] How to leverage marketing campaigns to optimize a fundraising strategy
[20:45] Tobin and his team’s creativity process
[24:50] Spark your creativity through a clarity break
[28:07] The impact of new technology on marketing
Links and Resources
Tobin’s LinkedIn
Tobin’s Website
Tobin’s New Book: Ride a Tornado
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Jon Arancio is the co-founder and Vice-President of Wintec Group, a CRM software reseller and application support specialty firm. We discuss the value of capturing and tracking customer data, how CRMs drive business growth, and the little-known beneficial features of CRM tools.
Timestamps
[01:05] Jon’s transition from science into entrepreneurship
[03:30] Key benefits CRM tools provide for a business
[04:30] How to create value using CRM
[06:02] How CRM tools drive business growth
[09:02] Analyzing the performance of different CRM tools
[12:35] How CRM customization affects service prices
[14:07] Trends and the future of CRM
[17:35] Tailoring CRMs to fit customer needs
[19:53] The value of capturing and tracking customer data
[22:20] Little-known beneficial features in CRMs
[24:40] How to leverage analytics tools and CRM to customize customer experience
[26:30] How Jon and his company solve customer needs through customization
Links and Resources
Jon’s LinkedIn
Jon’s website
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Dom Einhorn is the founder and CEO of UNIQORN, the largest rural business incubator, startup accelerator, and coworking space in Sarlat, France. He is a serial entrepreneur with multiple startups exits under his belt, primarily focusing on digital startups and angel investing. We discuss why France is a startup-friendly nation, how to launch and scale a successful tech company, and the 118-year-old startup.
Timestamps
[01:30] Dom Einhorn’s journey into entrepreneurship
[04:50] Why Dom decided to base his operations in France and not Silicon Valley
[06:40] Developing a creative tech atmosphere away from Silicon Valley
[10:55] Why France is a startup-friendly nation
[13:22] How foreigners can survive and thrive in France
[15:25] Dom’s go-to frameworks when launching startups
[18:46] Dissecting the Crawl, Walk, Thrive process at UNIQORN
[21:19] The DNA of a True Blood Entrepreneur
[24:01] Dom thoughts on commitment and fact-finding
[26:01] How to launch and scale a successful tech company
[31:30] The relationship between problem-solving and company success
[33:17] Expounding on the incubation and acceleration stages at UNIQORN
[33:55] UNIQORN’s 118-year-old startup
[38:02] The importance of liquid capital when investing in already existing companies
Links and Resources
Dom’s LinkedIn
Dom’s Website
The Startup Super Cup Website
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Tim Fitzpatrick is the president of Rialto Marketing, a marketing company that helps service businesses simplify marketing. We discuss the benefits of personalizing emails, the power of social media, and why business owners need to be producers and not consumers of content.
Timestamps
[00:53] Tim's entrepreneurial journey
[03:05] Tim's transition from the family business into marketing
[03:50] How service industries differ from other industries from a marketing perspective
[07:35] The gains of personalized emails
[09:05] How to narrow down personalized emails
[11:50] How Tim and his company formulate and execute marketing campaigns
[16:30] Types of content that guarantee results in today's world
[18:39] Utilizing the power of social media
[19:10] Why business owners need to be producers and not consumers of content
[21:35] How to implement and scale social media strategies
[23:26] The pros and cons of contracting social media experts
[25:48] Analyzing the ROI on Google AdWords
[30:24] Dissecting the effectiveness of offline marketing techniques
[33:22] Offline marketing techniques in the B2B space
[35:03] The top three marketing prospects for B2B service providers
[36:20] Why you need to release content on topics and mediums you're passionate about
[37:40] The power of speaking when generating leads
Links and Resources
Tim’s Website
Tim’s LinkedIn
Book your free consultation with Tim
Steve’s New Book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Rocky Lalvani coaches businesses to leverage Mike Michalowicz’s Profit First System. We discuss the Profit First strategy, dissect what a healthy business looks like and contrast good and bad money behaviors.
Timestamps
[01:22] Rocky’s entrepreneurial journey
[04:40] Differentiating good and bad money behavior
[07:28] Rocky’s passion for coaching business owners on money management
[09:24] Analyzing the Profit First management blueprint
[12:45] How small businesses can adopt the Profit First strategy
[14:50] How to strategically grow your business
[17:54] The downside to impulse buying
[19:11] How to set up your business to be a Profit First business
[23:35] The pros and cons of business credit
[26:30] The link between discipline and the Profit First System
[27:30] What is a Healthy Business?
[28:40] How Rocky implements the Profit First model
[31:14] Explaining the advanced Profit First technique
[32:22] Why business owners need to pay more attention to the finance aspect of the business
[37:04] Rocky’s role in growing a business
Links and References
Rocky’s LinkedIn
Rocky’s Website
Rocky’s Podcast
Mike Michalowicz’s book Profit First
Steve's new book: Buyable
Steve's blog
Complete the Buyability Assessment
Devin Miller is the founder and CEO of Miller IP Law, a patent and trademark firm that focuses on helping startups and small businesses maneuver the world of patents, trademarks, and copyrights. We discuss intellectual property, the pros and cons of franchising your business, and analyze how trademarks work worldwide.
Timestamps
[01:51] How Devin manages to run four companies and still have time for his family
[02:20] Devin’s passion for startups
[03:25] The legal aspects of launching and managing startups
[06:25] Devin’s go-to management frameworks
[10:40] Defining intellectual property
[13:26] How to register, manage, and expand intellectual property rights
[16:37] How Devin comes up with startup ideas
[20:55] Factors affecting intellectual property protection
[26:18] The pros and cons of franchising your business
[30:30] Dissecting the franchise agreement
[32:20] The love-hate relationship between franchising and entrepreneurship
[33:54] Distinguishing a franchise from a business chain
[37:01] The difference between R and TM trademarks
[41:15] How trademarks operate locally and internationally
[42:30] Why startups need to protect their trademarks immediately
[45:31] Devin’s goal for all his companies
Links and Resources
Devin’s Website
Devin’s LinkedIn
Book a Free Consultation with Devin
Steve's soon-to-be-published book
Steve's blog
Steve's website
Joe Cecala is the founder and CEO of Dream Exchange, a new stock exchange that focuses on small business capital formation. He is the former CEO of Expansion Funding Partners and was part of the team that developed the first computerized trading network, ArcaEx. We discuss factors affecting small capital transactions, the Main Street Growth Act, and how Dream Exchange will impact minority-owned companies.
Timestamps
[01:10] Joe's transition from law practice into the stock exchange world
[03:10] Factors affecting small capital transactions
[07:40] Determinants that influence exchange listing fees on Dream Exchange
[09:16] Demystifying the Main Street Growth Act
[13:25] Analyzing how private placements go public through venture security
[15:48] How private companies can take advantage of public markets
[18:50] Why the Dream Exchange does not threaten private equity funds
[20:45] Ideal company sizes that will be listed on Dream Exchange
[22:16] How internal valuation affects a company's worth in public markets
[28:30] Dream Exchange's competitors and collaborators
[31:10] Limits in small capital transactions
[33:40] Why early wins will determine Dream Exchange's success
[39:20] Privacy options available on Dream Exchange
[43:03] How Joe's platform will affect minority-owned companies
Links and Resources
Joe's Website
Joe's LinkedIn
DreamX Connect
Oxford University's Handbook on IPOs
Steve's soon-to-be-published book
Steve's blog
Steve's website
Lee Wochner is the CEO and creative strategist of Counterintuity, a full-service marketing agency based in Burbank, California. We discuss how to launch successful marketing campaigns, craft eye-catching messaging, and how to identify and measure social impact.
Timestamps
[01:28] Lee's entrepreneurial journey from playwriting to digital marketing
[05:08] The main messaging behind Lee's brand: Counterintuity
[08:11] How Lee built and scaled his company
[10:51] How EOS impacts a company’s growth
[12:35] Lee and his company's 10-year target
[13:56] Strategic differences between nonprofit and for-profit companies
[16:04] How to instantly grab your reader's attention
[19:05] Balancing strategy, marketing, and design
[23:16] How to conceive an identity that's unique to your client
[27:36] How to launch marketing campaigns that attract your ideal customer
[34:20] Definition of a high-performance marketing machine
[39:25] Dissecting the 'marketing for now' strategy
[43:20] How to identify and measure social impact
Links and Resources
Lee’s LinkedIn
Lee’s Website
Lee’s Marketing Whitepaper
Steve’s soon-to-be-published book
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Garrett Sutton is the CEO of Corporate Direct and the Sutton Law Center, an asset protection company that provides corporate formation and maintenance services. He is also an 11-time best-selling author and a Lifetime Achievement member of the Top 100 Attorneys. We discuss asset protection laws across different states, corporate formation strategies, and how to use your book to scale your business.
Timestamps
[01:09] Garrett’s journey into entrepreneurship
[02:47] How Garrett turned his law profession into a thriving business
[03:31] Defining asset protection
[07:10] Comparing asset protection laws across different states
[09:10] Practical asset protection strategies
[15:25] Analyzing leverage and management buyouts in today’s world
[17:30] Difference between certified and uncertified security
[19:30] Comparing a member-managed LLC to a manager-managed LLC
[21:43] The benefits of having a resident agent
[25:13] The value of maintaining asset protection entities
[29:00] Why you need to have annual LLC meetings and record meeting minutes
[30:14] Garrett’s go-to books for understanding corporate formation
[32:08] Dissecting C-Corp and S-Corp from a tax perspective
[37:13] Why writing a book establishes you as an expert in your field
[38:08] How to use your book to scale your business
Links and Resources
Garrett’s Website
Garrett’s LinkedIn
Garrett’s Book: Loopholes of Real Estate
Garrett’s Book: Start Your own Corporation
Steve’s soon-to-be-published book
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Stacy Sherman is the founder and owner of Doing CX Right, a company devoted to refining customer experience and employee engagement. She is also the head of customer experience at Schindler Elevator and a customer experience advisory board member for leading colleges including the University of Richmond. We discuss why customer experience is crucial for business success and how leaders can improve customer satisfaction through employee engagement.
Timestamps
[01:15] How to become a customer experience expert
[03:04] Defining customer voice
[04:45] How to turn your customer's voice into a customer journey map
[06:11] The process of understanding customer needs
[09:20] Humanizing a business and why it's important
[10:51] How to balance automation and human involvement throughout a customer's journey
[13:45] How to humanize your employee experience
[16:30] Defining ‘leading from the heart' and how it can be scaled
[19:00] Stacy's take on the ideal employee journey
[21:20] The relationship between engaged employees and customer satisfaction
[23:20] How to measure and improve employee satisfaction
[26:10] The main focus points on how to boost customer experience in your business
[28:25] Utilizing customer feedback to better customer experience
[32:10] Why modern companies can't afford to ignore customer experience
Links and Resources
Stacy’s LinkedIn
Stacy’s Website
Stacy’s Twitter
Steve’s website
Steve’s new book
Former NFL lineman Shawn Harper is the owner and operator of American Services and Protection, a security firm based in Columbus, Ohio. He also owns Bridge Builders International, an inter-denominational non-profit helping children in developing countries. We discuss how successful NFL systems can be applied to the business world and how to create a team-based winning culture.
Timestamps
[01:24] How Shawn transitioned from the NFL into entrepreneurship
[04:58] Shawn and his company’s definition of winning
[07:57] How to build a culture focused on winning long-term
[09:55] Incorporating the team into a company’s big win
[16:45] American Services and Protection’s big, hairy, and audacious goal
[20:07] Successful frameworks from the NFL that mid-sized businesses can use
[24:56] Habits that can help you improve your business system and achieve your goals
[28:05] Defining excellent communication
[31:34] Shawn’s definition of outstanding leadership
[36:25] How to get your people to align with your company’s goals
[41:30] Growing your company through personal selling
[45:20] Shawn’s ideal audience
Links and Resources
Shawn’s LinkedIn
Shawn’s Website
Shawn’s Latest Book
Shawn’s Instagram
Steve’s soon-to-be-published book
Morissa Schwartz is the owner of Dr. Rissy’s Writing and Marketing, an SEO, social media management, and PR company. She is also a multiple Amazon best-selling author and the proprietor of GenZ Publishing. We discuss how to beat your competition using SEO and the importance of having a strong social media presence.
Timestamps
[01:02] Morissa’s journey from writing into entrepreneurship
[03:25] How to amplify your personality through writing and social media
[06:35] Characteristics of an exceptional writer
[10:00] How Morissa built her company
[12:30] The link between a leader’s personality and a prosperous company
[14:50] The importance of SEO and how it affects your online presence
[18:10] Factors to consider when thinking of SEO
[19:18] Misconceptions surrounding podcast launches
[21:13] How to beat your competition using SEO
[22:11] The relationship between social media and search rankings
[23:50] Why you need to have a strong social media presence
[24:43] The essence of personalizing your social media appearance
[25:33] The best social media channels for professional service firms
[28:10] Analyzing Gary V’s Two Cents Strategy
[30:01] Pros and cons of concentrating all your marketing efforts on one website
[31:58] Dissecting Morissa’s 360 service
[32:37] The critical aspects to growing your online presence
[34:45] Morissa’s vision for Dr. Rissy Writing and Marketing
Links and References
Morissa’s Twitter
Morissa’s LinkedIn
Morissa’s Website
Dr. Rissy Writing and Marketing
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Ethan Giffin is the founder and CEO of Groove Commerce, an eCommerce and Inbound Marketing company. We discuss how businesses can break into the eCommerce space and why most companies grew substantially during the pandemic.
Timestamps
[00:49] Definition of an Inbound marketing and eCommerce evangelist
[01:52] Why Ethan has unwavering faith in eCommerce
[03:10] Defining eCommerce in layman’s terms
[04:58] How multi-million companies can break into the eCommerce space
[07:45] Examining how businesses transitioned into eCommerce during the pandemic
[11:18] Why some businesses grew substantially during the pandemic
[16:07] Ethan’s journey into entrepreneurship
[25:00] How small to medium-sized businesses compete with major brands for online traffic
[27:35] Breaking down Ethan’s target market
[31:20] Effective strategies for attracting and retaining online customers
[35:21] Expected changes in the eCommerce space post-Covid-19
Links and Resources
Ethan Giffin’s LinkedIn
Ethan Giffin’s Website
Ethan Giffin’s Twitter
Hubspot.com
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Alec Broadfoot is the founder and CEO of VisionSpark, an executive search, hiring training, consulting, and assessment company in Ohio, serving EOS-run companies. We discuss how firms can attract A-players using proven strategies and tools.
Timestamps
[01:02] Alec Broadfoot’s journey into entrepreneurship
[02:54] Companies that Alec ran before founding VisionSpark
[04:35] How VisionSpark stands out from the competition
[06:18] Understanding the people component of a business
[08:05] Why Alec decided to focus on companies running on the Entrepreneurial Operating System
[10:38] The difference between companies that use EOS and those that don’t
[11:37] How the People Analyzer helps clients make the right people decisions
[14:26] The business management frameworks that Alec used in VisionSpark and in his other businesses
[15:22] Why Alec started using EOS and his experience so far
[18:44] The notable mistakes entrepreneurs make during the hiring process
[22:33] How entrepreneurs can boost their hiring success ratio
[26:19] Why finding great people is more challenging than the selection process
[28:35] How to craft the perfect job post that attracts the right people
[34:07] The three main things every visionary leader has to focus on
[40:00] Why new entrepreneurs struggle with initial delegation of tasks
Links and Resources
Alec Broadfoot’s LinkedIn
Alec Broadfoot’s Website
Beyond Entrepreneurship by Jim Collins
The E-Myth by Michael Gerber
Who Not How by Dan Sullivan
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Mike Wittenstein is the founder of StoryMiners, a consulting firm in Atlanta, Georgia. They help businesses translate strategies into customer experiences. Previously, Mike was a media personality and spokesperson for IBM. We discuss how StoryMiners utilizes design to create value for customers and the frameworks behind their processes.
Timestamps
[01:19] Mike Wittenstein’s journey into entrepreneurship
[03:06] Business lessons from IBM
[05:29] Experience design creates value
[07:57] Design is a problem-solving tool
[11:26] Turning strategies into stories
[15:00] What leaders have to do differently
[15:51] How StoryMiners looks for value creation points
[20:00] How a good strategy resonates with people
[21:07] StoryMiners’ Promise Map
[29:17] Objectives and Key Results Framework
[31:26] Measure what generates value for your client’s customers
[32:35] How StoryMiners optimizes design for greater outcomes of value
[36:42] Transitions Optical Retail Experience
[39:48] Clients want to see their ideas become real
[45:10] Leaders should set goals and design the path to attain them
Links and Resources
StoryMiners’ Website
Story Miners’ Promise Map
StoryMiners’ Pinterest
StoryMiners’ LinkedIn
Steve’s Blog
Steve’s Website
Cody Butler is the bestselling author of The 90-day Marketing Plan which helps small businesses create an effective marketing strategy. Cody recently sold Majestic Data Solutions a company that helps small businesses become data-centric and leverage their data.
Time Stamps
[01:23] Cody’s background and what led him to become a marketing entrepreneur
[05:06] How Cody built a scalable business
[10:28] Cody’s advice for marketing quick wins
[15:07] How to generate appointments on LinkedIn
[21:03] Common mistakes business owners make in their marketing
[30:18] What your conversion rate is telling you about your strategy
[36:58] Finding a balance and outsourcing to generate results
[40:38] Marketing in the age of social media
[46:19] Everyone is in the marketing business
[50:33] Cody’s book: The 90-day Marketing Plan
[52:35] How Cody helps businesses with their marketing
Links and Resources:
Cody Butler’s LinkedIn Profile
Cody’s website
Cody Butler’s The 90-day Marketing Plan
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Rahul Alim is the president and CEO of Custom Creatives, a full-service digital marketing firm in Los Angeles. The agency specializes in high impact marketing solutions for small to medium sized businesses. Rahul also founded Follow Up Monster, a platform that enables businesses to pursue leads through automation.
Timestamps
[00:55] Rahul Alim’s journey into entrepreneurship
[02:26] What makes a good digital marketing agency
[05:16] Establish standard procedures for the business' longevity
[08:35] Businesses scale faster with simple processes
[12:41] Small businesses’ competitive advantage over major brands
[16:33] Outsourced marketing as an investment in your business
[19:59] Choose a digital marketing agency that’s a good fit for your business
[22:56] Marketing strategies should be needs-based
[26:55] Business needs and marketing landscape constantly change
[30:29] How Custom Creatives creates its own global talent pool
[33:51] The importance of websites in marketing and SEO
[37:06] Blogs show expertise and convert potential customers
[39:39] Improve your marketing through 3 concrete steps
Links and Resources
Rahul Alim’s LinkedIn Profile
Rahul Alim’s Facebook Page
Custom Creatives Website
Follow Up Monster Website
Steve’s Blog
Steve’s Website
Alex Sanfilippo is the founder of PodMatch, a fast-growing podcast matching platform, and the host of the Creating a Brand podcast for entrepreneurs. We discuss how business owners can leverage podcasting to grow their business, why documenting processes is critical and productivity tools required to scale a business.
Time Stamps
[00:45] Alex’s professional background and how he became a podcast entrepreneur
[03:17] How the corporate environment prepared Alex for entrepreneurship
[12:20] How to use a blog to grow your business
[15:09] Should you outsource your blog?
[17:20] How podcasting is different from blogging
[21:04] Starting a podcast to grow your business
[23:40] Committing to consistency to get results
[28:52] Hiring micro-entrepreneurs
[30:51] Advice for starting a podcast
[33:10] Alex’s productivity tips
[39:58] The evolution of PodMatch.com since its inception
[44:24] The size of the podcast market available to PodMatch.com
Links and Resources:
Alex Sanfilippo’s LinkedIn Profile
Alex’s website
PodMatch.com website
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Randy Gage is a thought-provoking, rags to riches entrepreneur who has published 14 books in 25 different languages including the New York Times bestseller Risky is The New Safe.
Time Stamps
[02:16] How Randy Gage built his speaking and writing business
[04:55] Randy’s entrepreneurial journey
[06:30] The power of leverage
[07:39] Trading hours for money
[08:55] How Randy accidentally became a speaker
[12:05] Understanding the principles of prosperity
[13:58] Applying the principles of prosperity to a pandemic world
[16:32] How to adapt when faced with life’s challenges
[18:07] Leveraging time
[20:19] Risky is the new safe
[22:43] How to question the premise
[25:26] How to dominate your market
[27:58] The relationship between storytelling and business growth
[30:05] Envision possibilities
[33:05] The three things your potential customer is struggling with
[34:22] The radical rebirth
[36:59] Companies do not evolve until the people running them evolve
[40:30] The radical part of evolution
[45:22] Making incremental changes and living your best life
Links and Resources:
Randy’s book: Risky is the New Safe
Randy’s Twitter handle
Randy’s website
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Chad Willardson is the founder and CEO of Pacific Capital, a fiduciary wealth management firm, the co-founder of The Draft Sports Complex, and twice-elected City Treasurer of Corona, California. He recently published Stress-Free Money: Overcome These Seven Obstacles to Find Financial Freedom, which already accumulated 89 five-star reviews on Amazon.
Time Stamps
[00:53] Chad’s professional background and why he started his company
[03:10] The evolution of Pacific Capital since its inception
[06:55] How Pacific Capital is different from other wealth management firms
[08:40] Financial health checks and recommendations for financial robustness
[10:52] Major money mistakes that people make
[13:03] How Pacific Capital helped an entrepreneur find clarity
[15:59] Pacific Capital’s big and small client services
[17:58] Levels of diversification and asset classes
[20:58] Advice for high-risk investment
[22:49] The effect of low interest rates on investment
[25:07] What to look for in a fiduciary advisor
[26:58] Chad’s mentors and influences
Links and Resources:
Chad Willardson’s LinkedIn Profile
Pacific Capital website
Chad Willardson’s book Stress-Free Money
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
Dr. Kelly Henry is a customer experience consultant who founded and ran the Henry Chiropractic Clinic for 20 years. By using a system based approach to customer service, he was able to catapult HCC into a leading organization in its field. His book, Define and Deliver Exceptional Customer Service, will launch in January 2021.
Timestamps
[01:16] Dr. Kelly's journey to becoming an expert in customer service
[03:25] Defining exceptional customer service
[05:09] Two key principles of customer service
[06:51] How to improve customer experience in 3 simple ways
[10:21] Why businesses don’t deliver good customer service
[12:04] Common misconceptions about customer service
[13:29] Metrics and tools to measure customer service
[16:55] Companies that provide excellent customer service
[18:50] Common mistakes businesses make when trying to improve
[21:03] The 5% bump
[25:06] How to maintain customer service quality
[26:59] Dr. Kelly’s business frameworks in growing his business
[28:56] Develop a good team atmosphere because your employees are assets
[31:49] Customer acquisition through referrals and loyalty
[33:38] Improving ease of convenience for customers
[36:10] How to communicate and solve problems with customers
[40:10] There is no failure, only feedback
Links and Resources
Dr. Kelly Henry’s Website Dr. Kelly Henry’s LinkedIn Page Dr. Kelly Henry’s Email
Dr. Kelly Henry’s book TractionEquity.com
Charles Read is a serial payroll entrepreneur and the CEO of GetPayroll. He is also the founder of Custom Payroll Associates and Payroll On A Budget and has over 40 years of experience in the industry. Charles is a US Tax Court Practitioner and a United States Marine Corps veteran.
Time Stamps
[01:14] Charles’ professional background and why he started his own company
[03:05] Charles’ entry into the payroll industry
[04:34] The move from Payroll On A Budget to GetPayroll
[06:52] The appeal of the payroll business
[08:38] How Charles helps businesses beat the IRS
[14:36] The difference between employees and contractors
[18:28] The true expense of using PEOs
[20:32] How the pandemic is changing how employees and businesses think about work
[25:08] Advice for new entrepreneurs incorporating a business
[27:35] Major mistakes that businesses make
[29:45] The tax implications of skipping W-2 income
[32:36] Charles’ tips for avoiding employment tax penalties
Links and Resources:
Charles Read’s LinkedIn Profile
GetPayroll Website
Charles Read's The Payroll Book: A Guide for Small Businesses and Startups (Amazon)
Steve’s blog
Steve’s website
In this episode, I interview Justin Goldston, a senior managing director at Nestell and Associates, a strategy consulting firm, and a five times TEDx speaker on emerging technologies. He is a Professor at Penn State University on Project Management and Supply Chain Management. We discuss how you can harness emerging technologies to grow entrepreneurial companies of any size.
Time Stamps
[01:02] The importance of technology in small and medium size enterprises
[02:05] How technology can help you make better decisions in your business
[03:52] The tools to use during business process automation
[07:42] Defining digital transformation maturity
[10:10] The augmented intelligence age
[11:09] The Agile mindset
[12:47] Why the Agile method works best in startups
[18:28] The difference between the Agile and the Waterfall approach
[20:15] The Hybrid project management approach
[20:40] The downside to the Agile approach
[22:06] Implementing Lean Six Sigma in a privately owned business
[25:03] The DMAIC approach
[27:15] Blockchains as decentralized computers
[32:37] Why blockchains are easy to implement
[34:50] How AI is used in predicting future trends
[38:08] How to harness the power of AI to make your business better
[39:40] How the chat box works and how to incorporate it into your business
[43:06] The chat box as a machine learning tool
Links and Resources
Justin Goldston’s LinkedIn Page
Justin’s TEDx Talks
TractionEquity.com
In this episode, I interview Mike Lander, CEO of Piscari Limited and Chairman of Re:Signal, a consultancy agency that drives organic growth for ambitious brands, in the UK.
Time Stamps
[01:16] Mike's entrepreneurial journey
[02:25] Mike's transition from freelancing to entrepreneurship
[04:49] How Mike managed to buy his first company
[07:48] Why timing is an integral part of every company's success
[08:50] Mike's first managerial steps in a new company
[11:44] How to implement a diversification strategy
[12:43] The importance of investing in sectors you completely understand
[17:47] How Mike sold his school business
[19:43] How to grow an ambitious brand
[21:38] Why you need to manage your emotions during negotiations
[23:18] Things to watch out for at the negotiation table
[25:09] Delivering quality while driving value
[27:55] Mike's business strategy model and how he ran his business
[29:52] Coaching versus mentorship
[32:10] The most invaluable framework in Mike's business toolkit
[38:01] Why finding your niche makes it hard for people to compete against you
[39:53] Mike's advice to his younger self
[42:40] The importance of having mentors
Links and Resources:
Mike Lander’s LinkedIn profile
Mike’s Website
Steve's EOS blog
TractionEquity.com
In this episode, I interview Steve Anderson, publisher of a leading industry newsletter on how to maximize your technology in investment and insurance. He recently published a best-selling book titled, The Bezos Letters: 14 Principles To Grow Your Business Like Amazon.
Time Stamps
[00:55] How Steve utilized his insurance expertise to successfully write a book about Amazon
[01:29] The biggest risk businesses take is actually not taking enough risks
[03:18] What makes Jeff Bezos unique
[04:33] Taking calculated risks while protecting your downside
[06:10] How Amazon employees get more focus by being obsessed with their customers
[08:56] Jeff Bezos’ long-term thinking
[10:20] Amazon’s business management blueprint
[13:09] Growth principles that can really help grow small to medium-sized businesses
[15:17] What Amazon does to create Jim Collins’s “flywheel effect”
[18:51] The four key growth cycles that every successful company is constantly moving through
[21:30] How to simplify complexity
[25:33] The high-velocity decision-making process
[27:53] The essence of having small teams
[28:34] The two types of decisions in Amazon
[30:45] Amazon’s hiring process
[32:35] The main idea behind the customer experience pillar
[35:40] Jeff Bezos’ commitment to zero emissions and driving change
Links and Resources:
The Bezos Letters: 14 Principles to Grow Your Business Like Amazon
Steve Anderson’s website
Steve's EOS blog
TractionEquity.com
In this episode, I interview Ben Feferman, the CEO and co-founder of Amuka eSports which is Canada’s leader in esports venues, leagues and tournaments. His firm also raises capital for fast growing esports businesses, and Ben is the co-founder of Canada's first and only incubator for esports-related companies.
Time Stamps
[01:20] Ben’s professional background and why he started his own company
[03:00] The evolution of esports: how video games became a competitive spectator sport
[05:42] Building community through esports
[07:24] Gamifying the workplace as a team building practice
[08:26] What an esports-facilitation business model looks like
[09:45] How the pandemic has reshaped the esports industry
[15:06] The upside of transitioning to virtual operations
[16:13] Trial and error in the esports business model
[17:47] How Ben divides his time between his ventures
[19:01] Using acquihire to build a team
[22:10] The size and potential of the Esport market
[24:14] Ben’s forecast for mobile gaming and VR esports
[25:42] Next steps for Amuka Esports
[26:45] Celebrity investments in esports teams
[29:16] Professional esports league models
[30:46] The challenges of transient popularity in esports
[32:10] Fostering creativity through lateral organisation at Amuka Esports
Links and Resources:
Ben Feferman’s LinkedIn profile
Ben Ferferman’s Twitch channel
Amuka Esports website
Steve’s blog
Steve’s Website
In this episode, I interview Steve Deller, Founder and CEO of Virid, a business that helps retailers navigate ecommerce best practices.
Time Stamps
[01:00] Steve’s professional background and why he started his own company
[03:40] How his company has evolved in the past 20 years
[04:36] The unique features of a company that offers both professional services and technology products
[06:36] Combining consulting and software implementation
[10:46] How might ecommerce evolve in the future
[12:36] How retailer websites can compete with Amazon
[14:57] The main challenges Virid faced, and how they overcame them
[18:11] Overhead challenges when transitioning from services to software
[19:14] Steve’s role models and what he learnt from them
[20:41] Why Virid implemented the Entrepreneurial Operating System
[23:52] How EOS helped Virid’s business
[28:04] Advice that Steve would give to his twenty-year-old self
[31:08] How to diagnose issues with clients’ ecommerce platforms
Links and Resources:
Steve Deller's LinkedIn profile
Virid’s website
Steve Preda's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve Preda
Book a free consultation with Steve Preda
In this episode, I interview Debbie Tyler, Vistage Chair and CEO Coach who is a former CEO of TakeCharge Technologies and holds several board positions, including at Arcitell, the Center for Innovation and Development, and MindShare, a network of technology companies in the D.C. area.
Time Stamps
[00:53] Debbie’s childhood business and her journey to becoming a CEO and coach.
[01:39] Why its people are the most critical asset for a company
[05:21] The importance of strong leadership in tech companies
[07:14] The challenge of finding customers and how companies can overcome it
[10:49] The importance of finding employees who fit the culture of your business
[16:46] Why Debbie transitioned from running a business to helping other people run businesses
[21:22] Why difficult conversations are welcome among high-performing people
[23:51] Why curiosity is the key to good coaching
[26:28] How to set goals with people that you are coaching
[30:06] How having a common shared goal and alignment can help a company succeed
[36:45] Advice that Debbie would give to her 20-year-old self
[37:51] The importance of being in the moment
[41:46] Lessons that Debbie learnt from her parents and grandparents
[45:38] Famous leaders who inspired her
[47:40] How her parents would describe what she does for a living
[48:33] How to reach out to Debbie
Links and Resources:
Debbie's LinkedIn profile
Debbie’s website
Debbie’s email address
Lincoln on Leadership: Executive Strategies for Tough Times
Steve's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve
Book a free consultation with Steve
In this episode, I interview Heinan Landa, Founder and CEO of Optimal Networks, an IT firm that serves law firms and associations in the Greater DC Area. He is the author of the bestselling book, The Modern Law Firm: How to Thrive in an Era of Rapid Technological Change.
Time Stamps
[01:48] Heinan’s education and family background which led to him founding Optimal Networks
[04:08] How the people on your team strongly impact client satisfaction in a professional services firm
[07:15] The importance of retaining employees for longer periods of time
[09:41] Determining how many people to employ and what proportions of people at different levels to employ
[11:12] Overcoming the tendency to say yes to clients without thinking through the ramifications
[13:01] Heinan’s initial struggle to run Optimal Networks and how he overcame it
[18:05] His joy and pride from completing acquisitions
[19:06] How Optimal Networks not only serves clients, but has created a community of like-minded individuals
[21:12] Why Heinan enjoys the company of the people that he works with
[23:19] Heinan’s mentors and his posture of perpetual learning
[27:33] How the Entrepreneurial Operating System has helped Optimal Networks
[31:14] The benefit of serving a niche market
[33:39] Heinan’s mother describes what he does for a living?
[35:27] How to learn more about Heinan and Optimal Networks
Links and Resources:
Heinan's LinkedIn profile
Optimal Networks’ website
Steve's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve
Book a free consultation with Steve
In this episode, I interview Olessia Smotrova, the CEO and owner of OST Global Solutions, a consulting firm that helps you win government contracts. She is the author of the book: How to Get Government Contracts. Have a Slice of the 1 Trillion Dollar Pie.
Time Stamps
[01:15] Olessia’s initial struggle to find employment and her first job as an elite concierge with American Express
[04:49] How she got hired by Lockheed Martin, even though on paper, they were not sponsoring visas
[07:16] Olessia’s stint at Raytheon and what she learned there
[08:37] Why she left Raytheon to start her own consulting business
[11:55] Who are the main competitors of consultants (it’s not what you expect)
[13:19] The struggles of hiring when scaling a consulting business
[17:48] The importance of establishing a company mission, and good processes.
[19:20] How Olessia’s mentality shift resulted in her greatest entrepreneurial success
[24:04] Her financially and emotionally taxing divorce, and how she got through it
[28:04] How Olessia models others
[30:36] Why she decided to implement the Entrepreneurial Operating System at OST Global Solutions
[33:04] The EOS tools and principles which stand out to Olessia. How the Right People - Right Seats principle and the Accountability Chart helped OST Global Solutions
[37:00] Advice that Olessia would give to her twenty-year-old self
[38:35] Tips for developing your confidence as women entrepreneur
[41:23] Olessia’s challenges in immersing herself in EOS and how she can overcome it
[43:58] How to learn more about Olessia
Links and Resources:
Olessia's LinkedIn profile
OST Global Solutions’ website
Steve's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve
Book a free consultation with Steve
In this episode, I interview Matt Clark, the president and CEO of Corcentric — a Fintech company that helps companies to purchase, pay and get paid. We talk about Matt’s origin story, his successes, his setbacks, and how he overcame them. Why Corcentric implemented EOS and their “Traction experience.”
Time Stamps
[01:15] How Matt learnt the ins-and-outs of running a business by watching his dad, a serial entrepreneur
[04:26] Corcentric’s size differentials when Matt took over and Corcentric’s subsequent development into a steady growth business, and eventually a successful tech business
[06:58] The main difference between running a traditional business versus a tech business. How the shaping of Matt’s mentality by both types of business contributed to Corcentric’s success
[09:42] Matt’s greatest successes and the efforts and challenges related to those successes
[12:52] How Matt’s fear of failure drives his success and eliminates doubt
[14:29] Matt describes the potent fear that he experienced after landing the Daimler account
[15:59] Matt’s primary failures, and the lessons that he learnt from them
[17:09] The people who inspired Matt and why
[19:46] The lessons that Matt learnt from his father’s response towards their family’s bankruptcy
[23:18] How Matt discovered the entrepreneurial operating system (EOS) and why he decided to implement it
[26:09] How EOS accelerated the Concentric-Ameriquest merger, and made the merger more seamless
[27:44] The EOS principle which stands out to Matt. How the principle of “rocks” helped Corcentric.
[30:03] The gaps in EOS which Matt had to supplement for the sake of Corcentric’s development
[32:20] Advice that Matt would give to a past version of himself
[34:55] How to contact Matt
Links and Resources:
Corcentric’s website
Matt’s LinkedIn profile
Steve's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve
Book a free consultation with Steve
In this episode, I interview Dave Quick, the CEO of Helping Bulls, leadership and sales coach, Vistage Chair and Culture Index Licensee. We talk about Dave’s career, his sources of inspiration, hiring philosophy and insights to developing your company’s culture.
Time Stamps
[02:52] Where Dave’s desire to coach and mentor people come from. Volunteering in the Connecticut prison system, life at the US Naval Academy, teaching saxophone and why he became a Vistage Chair.
[06:20] Dave talks about the differentiators of a professional services business and how running one is very different from other businesses.
[09:04] How Dave’s grandparents’ retail business instilled a desire in Dave to run a business.
[10:42] How the venturing program at Ross Diagnostics exposed Dave to the idea of pitching a good business or startup idea to get funding.
[12:59] Dave’s shares his darkest moments and how he pushed through them.
[16:10] How having “no other option” can drive success, when you just have to make it work and that he had to recruit people, because he had no other options.
[17:48] The importance of strong company culture. Why core values work and why make them visible to everyone.
[20:25] Dave talks about an email that he received from Roger Penske, the owner of the Indianapolis 500 about how his fan experience on the track catalyzed his “why”.
[21:51] Why the essence of culture is vision, expectations, values, and engagement. Why employees must share a “why”.
[24:35] The importance of the passion of the organization.
[30:36] How high expectations are the key to everything. How Steve Jobs and Elon Musk used them to drive their people.
[32:51] How the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) and Traction can help companies to thrive with a dead-simple approach.
[37:40] Why prioritization is the key to a successful company. How to avoid your fear of missing out (FOMO) from getting in your way.
[41:16] The people who inspired Dave and why?
[46:51] How to find out more about and contact Dave Quick. Links and Resources: Helping Bulls website Helping Bulls Twitter Roger Penske Steve's EOS blog Join a webinar with Steve Book a free consultation with Steve
Links and Resources:
Helping Bulls website
Helping Bulls Twitter
Roger Penske
Steve's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve
Book a free consultation with Steve
In this episode, I interview Nick Beavers, CEO of Media Cybernetics, a company that supplies image analysis software, typically used in industrial inspection routines. We talk about Nick’s path to becoming the CEO of Media Cybernetics, as well as his insights from using the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) at a tech company.
Time Stamps
[00:20] Media Cybernetics has been a scientific software provider since 1981. They extract quantitative measurements from images captured by microscopes or digital cameras.
[01:58] Nick’s family background and challenges growing up.
[02:44] His brother’s hardship caused Nick to mature earlier, to prioritize excellence, to make the most of life, and to be considerate of others.
[03:57] Nick had an entrepreneurial spirit very early in his life. Examples of how he always managed to transform his interests into a business.
[05:14] Nick began his career in the sciences, earning a Bachelor of Science in neurophysiology. However, he soon realized that this path was not meant for him.
[06:00] How Nick stumbled upon Media Cybernetics. He began working there as a technical services representative, finding it challenging but fulfilling.
[07:07] Initially, Nick took this job as a chance to build new skills and bolster his resume. How by 2019, he became the president of the company. How Nick bought the company 12 months later.
[10:00] The biggest challenges that Nick faced when Media Cybernetics was still a public company and how he handled the pressure.
[12:05] People management was another challenge. Nick’s transition from individual contribution to building a strong team as his career advanced required a learning curve.
[14:12] Nick’s role models.
[16:42] How Debbie Tyler, and his Vistage group, have provided support and advice. It is important to surround yourself with people who not only support you but are willing to critique you.
[19:00] How EOS has helped Media Cybernetics to grow — Nick had been struggling to find a system where different components complemented one another. EOS gave him a holistic system for managing the business.
[23:26] How EOS uses quirky and specific language to cut through the confusion and speed up communication.
[24:32] Nick’s experience in reconciling EOS with the agile framework that is often used by software development teams, as well as with distribution models used by tech companies.
[31:00] The darkest stage of Nick’s career
[37:59] How to find out more about Media Cybernetics and Nick.
Conclusion
Were you inspired by Nick’s story? Have you faced similar struggles during your entrepreneurial journey?
We would love to hear your questions and comments! Here are some resources that you might find helpful:
Media Cybernetics website
Nick’s LinkedIn profile
Email Nick
Steve's EOS blog
Join a webinar with Steve
Book a free consultation with Steve
In this episode, I discuss why serving your clients is a disservice. I provide real-world examples of how business owners brought success by learning to delegate, and share key tips for building a self-sustaining business.
Time Stamps
[0:30] Given that business owners are often very knowledgeable, they tend to fall into the trap of selling their own services, rather than the services of their business to clients. The success of their business is too often heavily dependent on one person, usually the founder.
[1:05] Reasons that business owners are reluctant to delegate — they worry about not providing the best service to clients, they worry about affecting the brand.
[2:00] The various hats that the owner of a growing professional services firm ends up wearing — promoting, closing deals, managing people and projects, quality control, firefighting, executing projects
[3:12] Why building a business around yourself is a ceiling for business growth. The process of transitioning my business to a self-sustaining one, starting from tasks that were the easiest to delegate to the more difficult tasks
[3:33] My experience of delegating administrative tasks to an assistant — he had to switch assistants six times
[4:19] How I delegated the execution of transactions — delivering documentation for investment banking deals, financial modeling, info memos, books
[4:59] Concerns about quality control — how I used to iteratively make tedious corrections to any info memo draft or financial model
[5:45] How my heavy involvement in quality control gave other people permission to be more lax with their work outputs
[6:04] Suggestion for delegating quality control — creating processes, using things like checklists that people can use to regulate the quality of their work
[7:47] Delegating management tasks to other people
[8:09] Delegating sales tasks to my colleagues — gradually speaking up less at presentations to potential clients etc.
[9:01] How delegation entails including newer people who are more excited about a task — and this excitement reflects well on the business. The newer people pay attention to details and are less prone to treat a task as purely routine
[10:22] Delegating promotion to other people. Promotional tasks are especially difficult to pass on because they require passion, intuition, vision and communication skills
[11:05] How creating verticals such as “healthcare” and “engineering” within a business generates self-sustainability. Each person is strongly invested in their area of expertise
[11:51] How to generate traction in a purposeful and meaningful way — using the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) helps with creating structure and designing major roles
[13:22] How providing and communicating vision is central to the task of delegation. Steve recommends using the Vision-Traction Organizers (V/TO) provided by the EOS, which allows you to think about the vision of a business in eight simple questions, and to set up short-term and long-term goals
[13:55] The impact of using V/TOs — people have clear direction and know what is expected of them
[14:35] Helpful resources for transitioning to a self-sustaining business (linked below)
[16:01] The most important benefit of delegation — you may think your clients appreciate your personal attention, but they will be concerned with the sustainability and credibility of your business if you do not delegate
[16:42] How delegating can free up a business owner’s mental space for more important questions. “By systemizing the predictable, we can humanize the exception” - Gino Wickman -
[17:24] Real-world example of the success of delegation — a CEO of a commercial bank requested to talk to a managing partner at McKinsey who had advised a competitor commercial bank. If this managing partner had been too active in his projects, he would not be able to help in this important situation which more strongly required his experience and expertise
Conclusion
Are you transitioning towards a self-sustaining business? What problems have you faced during this process?
We’d love to hear your comments and questions! Here are some resources that you might find helpful:
Steve’s EOS Blog [https://tractionequity.com/eos-blog/]
Join a Weekly Webinar with Steve
Free Books by Steve Preda - the Traction Equity Library
Free Chapters of Books on EOS - the Traction Library
In this episode, Steve Preda discusses several examples of successful value-added resellers and how the practice of customization of mainstream software packages expanded their profits and helped grow their companies.
Time Stamps
[00:15] Steve recalls a client of his — a software developer who was very good at motivating dealers to become committed to distributing software. This client was a value-added reseller, and Steve decided to dive into the concept of value-added reselling
[00:58] Where value-added reselling comes from — began as a concept from smaller companies which were struggling to sell their software due to the advent of large companies like Oracle and SAP. The smaller companies began to provide integration and customization of the larger companies’ software. In other words, they became value-added resellers
[02:23] Example 1: How Steve’s former client, Zoltan Schwarz, expanded his small company, XAPT through value-added reselling. The company began by implementing Microsoft’s ERP systems for the Hungarian market
[03:15] In 2006, XAPT implemented a customized solution for a Caterpillar dealer. This set off a series of projects to customize solutions for other Caterpillar dealers — ultimately making XAPT an international success. In 2015, they reported a 60% net profit margin
[04:52] How larger companies can be platforms for smaller players to create a very profitable business
[05:10] Example 2: Steve recalls purchasing a CRM system for his investment bank. This system was a customization of Salesforce for investment banks, but was sold at about 10 times the price of a standard Salesforce CRM license
[06:03] How using customization to create a community for your customers can increase profits
[06:41] How XAPT expanded to three times as large as the original business through value-added reselling
[07:45] Call-to-action to become a value-added reseller and to leave comments
Conclusion
Do you have any experience in customization, or how have you seen customization to be beneficial to other companies? How might your business benefit from value-added reselling? Consider becoming a value-added reseller to increase your profits and build proprietary solutions.
We’d love to hear your comments and questions! Here are some resources that you might find helpful:
XAPT’s website
Traction Equity website
Book a free consultation with Steve
Join a webinar with Steve
In this episode, Steve Preda discusses three types of professional service firms in terms of their organizational structures, pricing structures, and overhead. He then describes how these factors interact to produce varying degrees of profitability and scalability.
Time Stamps
[0:27] Introducing the inspiration for this episode, David Maister’s book, Managing the Professional Service Firm.
[0:49] Stating the three types of firms — brains firms, gray-hair firms and efficiency firms.
[1:09] Type 1: Brains Firms.
[1:11] Defining brains firms — typically composed of a handful of highly paid and deeply knowledgeable experts.
[1:29] The pricing structure of brains firms — hourly — and specific examples of brains
firms — top-notch criminal attorneys, top-notch doctors, taxation experts and accountants who specialize in vintage cars.
[2:02] The organizational structure of brains firms — two to three partners and a few administrative staff such as paralegals or secretaries.
[2:30] Type 2: Gray-Hair Firms.
[2:34] Examples of gray-hair firms — corporate law or family law firms.
[2:45] The services that people expect from gray-hair firms — people who might not be cutting-edge but who know their stuff, provide comfort and will not screw up their client’s case.
[3:28] The structure of gray-hair firms — typically composed of three to four partners, senior employees and junior administrative staff.
[4:00] The pricing structure of gray-hair firms — the partners make money and take a cut on their junior or senior employees.
[4:20] Type 3: Efficiency Firms.
[4:22] Defining efficiency firms — a classic professional services firm with a pyramid structure.
[4:30] Describing the junior people at efficiency firms — auditors or analysts who are talented but not deeply knowledgeable and work long hours.
[5:04] Types of senior people at efficiency firms — audit seniors, managers, senior managers and partners.
[5:12] The path to partnership in an efficiency firm — nine to fifteen years and encouragement to leave if an employee does not make partnership.
[5:26] The pricing structure of an efficiency firm — the partners make the most money and leverage the cheaper labor of lower-level employees.
[6:20] Comparing the different types of firms in terms of profitability and how buyable they each are.
[6:33] Brains firms have the highest short-term profitability due to low overhead and strong expertise at the very beginning.
[7:00] Gray-hair firms have the second highest short-term profitability. They have more overhead than brains firms and require some grooming of senior employees.
[7:49] Efficiency firms have the lowest short-term profitability. They have high overhead and require lots of training of junior employees.
[9:26] Efficiency firms have the highest long-term profitability. The numerous junior employees sustain the firm and make money.
[10:00] Brains firms have the second highest long-term profitability. They are robust against recession because the demand for strong expertise remains. They also have low overhead costs.
[10:32] Gray-hair firms have the lowest long-term profitability. Their higher overhead costs, compared to brains firms, are not sufficiently balanced out by the benefits of having more employees.
[10:53] Efficiency firms are very buyable. The exit of partners does not impede profitability due to the pyramid structure consisting of many employees.
[11:32] Gray-hair firms are the second most buyable in that they do have assets to sell, provided their partners are all not too close to retirement.
[12:19] Brains firms are the least buyable because if the partners exit or retire, the firm does not have much to offer.
[13:05] Overview of the three types of firms in terms of profitability and how buyable they each are.
[14:13] Call-to-action for comments & questions.
Conclusion
Have you made similar observations to Steve about profitability and scalability when working at brains firms, gray-hair firms or efficiency firms? Which of these structures would you choose if starting your own professional service firm? We’d love to hear your comments and questions! Here are some resources that you might find helpful:
Traction Equity Website
Book a Free Consultation with Steve
Join a Webinar with Steve
Managing the Professional Service Firm by David Maister
In this episode, Steve Preda condenses his personal experiences into six key reasons why you should work businesses that interest you. These six reasons reflect a symbiotic relationship or two-way street that benefits both you and your client.
Time Stamps
[0:29] Introduction: David Maister as the inspiration for this episode and why this topic is important.
[1:16] Statement of the six key reasons why you should work with businesses that interest you.
[1:40] Reason 1: Curiosity
[1:47] Curiosity as a driver of motivation, regardless of the topic
[1:58] Real-life example: Upon being hired by a molding company early in his career, Steve educated himself by reading multiple books on the topic.
[2:24] Reason 2: Excitement
[2:40] Excitement as a mobilizer for absorbing knowledge and subsequent deep thoughts & ideas on a topic which are beneficial to the client.
[3:00] Reason 3: Depth
[3:47] How becoming an industry specialist enhances your relationship with your client and adds to the opportunities and relationships available to you within an industry.
[4:22] Real-life example: How Steve’s excitement when building his investment banking career bred insights and ideas that inspired a successful newsletter
[5:32] Reason 4: Experience
[5:34] How your interest attracts other people’s interest, leading to a perfect breeding ground for more experience.
[6:00]: Real-life example: Steve’s friend, the Global Managing Director of Healthcare at a major investment banking firm. This friend is frequently an obvious choice when clients want to perform a transaction because he is a leader, friend, and rich source of information within the healthcare industry.
[7:36] Reason 5: Transferable best practices
[7:39] How repeatedly working in the same industry leads to an awareness of what works versus what does not work
[7:58] Real-life example: Steve’s boss, the CEO of commercial bank hired McKinsey that had been supporting a major competitor to capture the other bank’s best practices.
[9:48] Reason 6: Connections with industry players & resources
[10:13] How your connectedness becomes an asset to your client, and lightens the labor of the networking required to complete a task or to obtain important information.
[10:44] Synthesis of how the six reasons complement one another, benefiting both you and your client.
[11:31] Helpful resources related to Steve and his experiences.
Conclusion
Do you often prioritize working with businesses that truly interest you? Have you considered the impact of interest on the quality and quantity of your professional contributions? If you want to think further about these kinds of issues, look into the resources linked below:
Traction Equity Website
Steve Preda’s Book
Join a Webinar with Steve
David Maister’s Podcast
ProfServ Traction Podcast
Episode Run Time: 8:43
Welcome to the ProfServ Traction Podcast, dedicated to exploring how professional services and technology businesses break through the ceiling.
In this episode, Steve Preda breaks down the key aspects that make professional services companies different from other businesses, and the unique difficulties involved in the leadership and management that these kinds of businesses must overcome in order to break through to the next level.
Time Stamps
[00:15] Introduction: How managed professional service firms are different from other businesses
[00:47] Why managing a professional services business is much harder than other businesses
[00:59] Reason 1: Highly skilled and trained people require compelling leadership
[01:09] Reason 2: Career structure hierarchies within professional services firms
[02:00] Difficulties in leading and managing a team with expectations of traditional business hierarchies
[02:16] Reason 3: The focus on billability of people in a professional services firm
[02:55] Identifying disincentives for people who want to become leaders and how to open the door towards creating the leaders a company needs
[04:01] Reason 4: The firm is a collection of solopreneurs
[04:25] Managing and overcoming challenges when leading a team that sees themselves as solopreneurs/entrepreneurs
[04:53] Reason 5: Dispersed ownership
[05:00] Examples of dispersed ownership structures and their complexity
[05:40] Reason 6: Challenges in decision making and leadership
[06:55] The first steps involved in starting a professional services firm’s EOS journey.
[07:10] Examples of identifying some of the major functions of a business.
[08:00] Strategic questions business leaders can answer through EOS in order to take a company forward to that next level.
Conclusion
What are the major functions of your business and who in your organization really “gets” it? Does your company have unique leadership challenges that you may not have considered or adapted to? The Entrepreneurial Operating System will give your services or technology business a whole new perspective on empowering those within the organization to function on a whole new level!
Headline Quote:
06:40 – 7:07
“And whenever we started professional services firms on the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS Traction and one of the first things that we do and focus there on the first few sessions together is to figure out what the major functions of that business are and who are the people who get it, who want it and who have the capacity to execute on those major functions. And what are the major roles of those functions.”
Welcome to the ProfServ Traction Podcast, dedicated to exploring how Professional Services and Technology businesses break through the ceiling.
Steve explains why he is launching this podcast, the reason for picking professional services and why he is passionate about this sector. He also shares his personal story of starting his own professional services firm and his trials and tribulations.