Political Roundtable: Recent Episodes
The Public's Radio
Political reporter Ian Donnis moderates a spirited debate on local politics, heard every Friday morning during Morning Edition on The Public's Radio
Rhode Island voters recently approved $73 million in borrowing to enhance the Institute for Cybersecurity and Emerging Technologies at Rhode Island College. The 60% vote in favor of Question 2 underscores public confidence in the idea that education can help improve the local economy. Voters also approved $87 million for a life sciences center at URI. At Rhode Island College, the man leading the charge is Jack Warner. He is being inaugurated today as RIC’s permanent president after more than two years as interim leader. Warner takes on the role at a time when many Americans wrestle with college-related debt. And with the Trump administration vowing to eliminate the federal Department of Education, Republicans and some other critics believe colleges in America have moved too far to the left. How will these issues affect Rhode Island? Can Rhode Island College really play a bigger role in the state’s economy? And what is Jack Warner’s strategic vision for RIC? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with president of Rhode Island College Jack Warner.
Megan Cotter is a progressive Democratic state representative who first won election by just 32 votes in 2022. Republicans had high hopes this week of winning back Cotter’s seat, since voters in her district in Exeter, Richmond and Hopkinton lean conservative. But Cotter scored an eight-point victory over former Republican Representative Justin Price, winning the race by about 700 votes. She was victorious even though Donald Trump this week had his best Rhode Island performance yet and beat Kamala Harris in the three communities making up Cotter’s district. So what does the outcome tell us about how Democrats can compete more effectively in the Trump era? How did Cotter overcome her challenges as a candidate? And where does she think Democrats should go from here? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with state Representative Megan Cotter.
Americans will finish voting Tuesday, although it remains unclear when a winner will be declared in the presidential race. It’s a more low-key election in Rhode Island, where the race for mayor of Cranston is among the top races. But a close vote is expected on ballot Question 1, which could set the stage for Rhode Island to hold its first constitutional convention since 1986. And next week’s election is a prelude to 2026, when Rhode Islanders will vote for governor and other statewide offices. So what do the current political headwinds mean for Governor Dan McKee? How would a Trump administration affect Rhode Island? And even if the state does stage a constitutional convention, would it make a real difference? This week on Political Roundtable, we have an in-depth election preview with two fellow political reporters, senior reporter with the Rhode Island Current Nancy Lavin and politics editor for WPRI-TV, Channel 12, Ted Nesi.
Americans’ confidence in elections has been shaken in recent years -- at least for some. Donald Trump’s false narrative about a stolen election in 2020 has led many of his supporters to doubt the integrity of the process. That’s despite evidence given by elections officials and even some members of Trump’s administration that the vote was free and fair. With a looming climax to the tight presidential race, the issue of election integrity is likely to surge front and center in the weeks ahead. As Rhode Island’s chief elections officer, Secretary of State Gregg Amore is on the frontlines of questions involving voting rights and fair elections. So what is he expecting? How should we combat lies and misinformation about elections? And if one man can popularize a phony narrative about the democratic process, what would it mean if that person regains the White House? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with Rhode Island Secretary of State Gregg Amore.
Donald Trump has vowed to go after his political enemies if he wins the presidential election. The U.S. Justice Department is part of the executive branch, so if Trump wins, he would have significant influence over what happens. Closer to home, the timeline for rebuilding the westbound Washington Bridge remains uncertain, although it’s likely to take longer than originally expected. And the healthcare landscape in Rhode Island faces a series of challenges, ranging from lower reimbursement rates than in Connecticut and Massachusetts and precarious finances for some hospitals. Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha intersects with all of these issues. As a former top federal prosecutor in the state, Neronha previously worked for the Justice Department. He’s been an outspoken critic of Governor Dan McKee and his handling of the bridge. And Neronha has been one of the most vocal officials in the state in talking about the need for more urgency in confronting Rhode Island’s healthcare challenges. So what does Neronha think about what justice would look like in a Trump administration? What would he do differently on the bridge? And since term limits preventing him from seeking re-election in 2026, what is next for the longtime prosecutor? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha.
Morgan, a Republican, says she would fight for her constituents and she’s trying to capitalize on issues like inflation and immigration. But Whitehouse has vanquished a series of rivals since first winning his Senate seat by beating Lincoln Chafee, a Republican at the time, in 2006. When former state Supreme Court Justice Robert Flanders ran […]
When Hamas attacked Israel last October 7th, it raised concerns about a wider conflict in the Middle East. This week, Iran fired more than 180 missiles into Israel, in response to Israel’s assassination of the head of Hezbollah. The question now is how Israel will respond … and whether the Middle East can step back from the brink of an intensifying war. Providence Journal columnist Mark Patinkin is no stranger to the region. He traveled to the Middle East after the first intifada in the late 80s and returned this year. His conversations with Israelis and Palestinians became part of Patinkin’s latest book, “The Holy Land at War: A Journey Through the West Bank, Israel and Gaza.” Patinkin has been a columnist at the ProJo since 1979. Forty-five years later, he’s still at it, writing with a mix of humor and outrage about different aspects of life in Rhode Island. So how does Pantikin view the outlook for stepping back from the precipice of wider violence in the Middle East? Does he think Rhode Island politicians are up to the task of building a stronger economy? And how does the longtime columnist feel about the evolving media landscape in the state? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with columnist for The Providence Journal Mark Pantikin.
Rhode Island faces a growing shortage of primary care doctors. Medical specialists make more money than primary care doctors, and the economic conditions for physicians are better in Massachusetts and Connecticut. This is why a legislative panel is studying whether it would help to create a state medical school at the University of Rhode Island. There are a host of other healthcare-related challenges in the state, including the difficult fiscal outlook for some hospitals and Rhode Island’s heavy reliance on public payers like Medicare and Medicaid. State Senator Pamela Lauria, a Barrington Democrat, has a front-row seat on these issues since she’s a nurse practitioner for Coastal Medical, a primary care practice serving more than 100,000 patients. Lauria is also co-chair of the legislative commission studying the potential of a possible state med school at URI. So what is the freshman senator’s prescription for improving healthcare in Rhode Island? As an East Bay resident, how does Lauria assess Governor McKee’s performance on the Washington Bridge issue? And as a Democrat and longtime gun safety activist, what is her explanation for why Donald Trump remains a competitive presidential candidate? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with state Senator Pamela Lauria.
Rhode Island’s housing crisis is a tough nut to crack. Even though hundreds of millions of dollars have been allocated to promote new housing, progress has been slow and the cost of housing keeps going up. This is a key issue for the future of the state, since Rhode Island needs more housing if the state’s economy is going to grow. There are other worrisome signs on the economic front. The iconic toy-maker Hasbro is considering moving its headquarters and hundreds of jobs elsewhere. And the state’s fiscal outlook suggests a return to the perennial deficits that in the past have typically greeted lawmakers at the start of every General Assembly session. So what can be done to accelerate progress on housing? Why does Rhode Island still lack engines of new job growth? And what does a respected housing advocate make of all this as she prepares to leave her longtime job? This week on Political Roundtable, an exit interview with president/CEO of nonprofit developer ONE Neighborhood Builders Jennifer Hawkins.
Tuesday’s Rhode Island primary featured a rare spotlight on Republican candidates. Cranston was the scene of a hard-fought mayoral campaign — one of the few places in the state with such high-profile GOP competition. The losing candidate, Barbara Ann Fenton-Fung, has been a bright spot for the Rhode Island GOP, but she’s been taken off […]
The former Providence Journal reporter Elliot Jaspin once called Rhode Island a theme park for journalists. The same could be said for advocates of good government. Although there have been fewer cases of public corruption in recent years, issues of government accountability and transparency remain front and center. One person closely monitoring these issues is John Marion, who has served as executive director of Common Cause of Rhode Island since 2008. He keeps a watchful eye on state government and spends long hours at the Statehouse monitoring the General Assembly. Over time, Marion and predecessors including Phil West have been an important voice for reform in Rhode Island. But is that enough when many people believe democracy is on the ballot this November? What is the effect when Donald Trump perpetuates a false narrative about crooked elections? And why are we not seeing more robust competition for legislative seats in Rhode Island? This week on Political Roundtable, political reporter Ian Donnis goes in-depth with head of Common Cause of Rhode Island, John Marion.
U.S. Rep. Seth Magaziner faces a very different election landscape than when he won his congressional seat in 2022. Although Republicans had high hopes, Magaziner beat GOP candidate Alan Fung two years ago by just under four percentage points. This time around, Magaziner faces token opposition, but it's unclear if Democrats will be able to regain control of the U.S. House of Representatives. The Senate may be up for grabs, and polls show a close presidential race between Democrat Kamala Harris and Republican Donald Trump. Magaziner describes Trump and the election deniers who support him as a threat to democracy. So how should Democrats respond if Trump wins in November and their fears come to fruition? What does Harris need to do to overcome voters' concerns about inflation and other issues? And how does Magaziner see the outlook for strengthening democracy in the US and abroad? This week on Political Roundtable, The Public’s Radio political reporter Ian Donnis goes in-depth with the congressman from Rhode Island's 2nd District.
Violent crime in most American cities has generally trended down for decades, except for an uptick during the pandemic. There were 14 homicides in Providence last year, far less than the comparable number in the 1990s and 2000s. The waning of the crack epidemic is part of the explanation for why there’s less violent crime in America than in the past. Providence and some other cities have also seen the introduction of nonprofit groups that send streetworkers to promote peace, disrupt conflicts among young people, and offer a connection between the community and the police. The Nonviolence Institute was formed more than 20 years ago and it has become a vital part of the response in Providence. The founding director, Teny Gross, now leads a similar effort in Chicago. And the first woman director of the Nonviolence Institute, Lisa Pina-Warren, was appointed to that role last month. So how is Providence doing in addressing the roots of violent crime? And what would it take to make a bigger impact? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with executive director of the Nonviolence Institute Lisa Pina-Warren.
Keep your eye on Dawn Euer, the Democratic state senator from Newport. She’s a potential candidate for attorney general in 2026, along with state Representatives Jason Knight and Robert Craven. Euer is also someone who may be able to move up in Senate leadership next year. The Newport progressive first won office in 2017, when she got more than 60 percent of the vote in a four-way special election. In the time since, she’s sponsored a series of bills on healthcare, the environment and other issues. Euer is part of a rising generation of younger leaders in the state, and her time in the Senate has coincided with the chamber’s move somewhat to the left. But Rhode Island still faces a host of thorny challenges, from replacing the Washington Bridge to managing a more difficult fiscal outlook. So what does Euer say about the state’s ability to take on tough issues? How does she hope to channel her energy in the future? And are state lawmakers bringing enough urgency to the changes needed to improve Rhode Island? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with Senator Dawn Euer, chairwoman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The amount of U.S. spending on healthcare reached four and a half trillion dollars in 2022, or about $14,000 per person. Despite such massive spending, many aspects of American healthcare are marred by problems. There’s the shortage of primary care doctors. An emphasis on treating disease rather than promoting long-term health. Locally, doctors can make more in neighboring Massachusetts and Connecticut than they can in Rhode Island. And the state’s hospitals are overly dependent on Medicare and Medicaid, rather than the more lucrative reimbursement paid by private insurers. This adds up to a series of complicated challenges, if not a worsening crisis. State government has started making some efforts to respond, but these remain at an early stage. So what will it take to put healthcare in Rhode Island on a better footing? Does the state have too many hospitals? And is it possible to create a system more responsive to everyday people than insurance companies and healthcare executives? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with author, community activist and former state Health Director Dr. Michael Fine.
State Representative Justine Caldwell personifies some of the significant changes that have swept over the General Assembly in the last decade. In 2018, Caldwell, a Democrat, ousted the Republican incumbent in an East Greenwich-based district, Anthony Giarrusso. That change reflects how the legislature has moved a bit to the left and how the former GOP stronghold of East Greenwich now generally elects more Democrats. Caldwell is a fierce supporter of new restrictions on guns. Her time in the General Assembly has coincided with a reduction in the number of pro-gun Democrats. As a result, a series of related measures have become law in recent years, including a House bill sponsored by Caldwell requiring the safe storage of firearms. So how does Caldwell respond to people who believe more laws are the wrong approach? What’s her view on what Democrats need to do differently to win over more working class voters? And can a prescription choice bill she sponsored overcome the monopolistic power of pharmacy benefit managers? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with state Representative Justine Caldwell.
Until recently, Steve Frias of Cranston held one of the top posts in the Rhode Island Republican Party -- national committeeman. Frias decided to not seek re-election for that role because he does not support Donald Trump, now the GOP nominee for president. Frias is among a small number of Rhode Island Republicans who have publicly repudiated Trump, and he’s been more outspoken than most in calling out the former president’s false claims about a stolen election in 2020. So does Frias share Democrats’ concerns about Trump’s possible return to the White House? What about Trump’s pick of JD Vance as his running mate and the theatrics at the RNC in Milwaukee this week? And does the Cranston Republican have any bright ideas for how to improve the meager GOP legislative representation in Rhode Island? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with local historian, past legislative candidate and former Rhode Island GOP National Committeeman Steve Frias.
Presidential threats to democracy are nothing new. Our second president, John Adams, outlawed dissent and tried to prosecute his critics. Andrew Johnson’s presidency featured threats against his perceived opponents, and Richard Nixon engaged in a criminal conspiracy. But there are some key differences in our current moment. In a recent decision, for example, the U.S. Supreme Court expanded presidential power, and groups aligned with Donald Trump, like the Heritage Foundation, have ambitious plans for remaking the federal government. As Democrats wrestle with doubts about President Joe Biden, what is the outlook for American democracy? Are the traditional checks and balances of our system out of whack? And does the way in which Americans responded to overreaching presidents in the past offer clues for the future? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with Brown University political science professor Corey Brettschneider, author of “The Presidents and the People: Five Leaders Who Threatened Democracy and the Citizens Who Fought to Defend it.”
Rhode Islanders are among those celebrating the Fourth of July this week with cookouts, fireworks and family get-togethers. But politics rarely takes a day off, and July Fourth marks a line between the end of the General Assembly session last month and the start of campaigns for the legislature and other offices. In short, it’s a good time for a few political reporters to consider the top Rhode Island political stories so far in 2024. Has anger dissipated over the Washington Bridge fiasco? Does a low unemployment rate mask weaknesses in Rhode Island’s economy? And hey, since we reporters are people too, we’re also revealing our favorite summer food and most eagerly anticipated summer activity in the Ocean State. This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with the senior reporter for the Rhode Island Current, Nancy Lavin, and politics/economics editor for WPRI-TV, Channel 12, Ted Nesi.
Valarie Lawson has enjoyed a rapid rise in the Rhode Island Senate. Lawson was first elected in 2018 and she is now the third-ranking member in the chamber. The East Providence Democrat may climb even higher. Senate president Dominick Ruggerio is 75. If he wins re-election this year, Ruggerio is expected to pass the Senate […]
Rhode Island House Speaker Joe Shekarchi holds what is often called the most powerful job in state government. That’s because the speaker controls the legislation in the House of Representatives and has broad influence over the state budget. The $13.9 billion spending plan approved by lawmakers earlier this month won praise for including more money for healthcare and education. And Shekarchi, a Warwick Democrat, wins kudos even from some Republicans for keeping an open door and having a consensus-oriented approach. But Rhode Island’s budget has grown by 50% since before the pandemic and the state’s fiscal outlook has grown more challenging. Can Rhode Island afford the growth in its state budget? There are also familiar and persistent difficulties in housing and other areas. What can be done to make more progress on housing? And what does the future hold for the man who leads the House of Representatives? This week, we're going in-depth with House Speaker Joe Shekarchi.
Many of the hundreds of bills passed by the Rhode Island General Assembly each year raise issues involving civil liberties. That’s why Rhode Island ACLU executive director Steve Brown pays close attention to the legislature. As is often the case, the results from Smith Hill this year are something of a mixed bag. Lawmakers approved the first significant overhaul since 1976 of the Law Enforcement Officers’ Bill of Rights, or LEOBOR. But an attempt to update the law governing open records, the Access to Public Records Act, fell flat in the face of opposition from state government. So how did lawmakers do in conducting the public’s business? What would it take to make the General Assembly more accountable to the public it serves? And how is the outlook for the rule of law when millions of Americans dispute the winner of the 2020 presidential race? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with the head of the Rhode Island ACLU, Steve Brown.
URI recently completed a $300 million fundraising drive ahead of schedule. Parlange says Rhode Island’s flagship public university has turned a corner in attracting more robust state support. And last year, he unveiled an ambitious four-pronged 10-year strategic plan. The goals include making URI a hub for innovation and a more powerful economic catalyst. Are these goals realistic, and what will it take to realize them? How much promise is offered by the blue economy? And what does the university president make of the gripes about academia? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with URI President Marc Parlange.
Donnis: Welcome to the Public’s Radio. Rhode Islanders will vote in November on whether to borrow money to create an 80 million dollar life sciences building at URI. What difference would that initiative make if voters decide to support that?
Parlange: So it’s huge. It’s extremely important for the state of Rhode Island and for the future. We are, as a state, we’re making a big effort in expanding our efforts in healthcare, in the life sciences, and having a biomedical sciences building. $87.5 million general obligation bond is very important. It’s going to allow us to really build on our strengths.
If I can, we have more than 6, 000 students studying some aspect of the life sciences at the University of Rhode Island. And two weekends ago, we graduated more than 1400 who are graduating again from biomedical engineering to pharmaceutical sciences and so forth in this area. We are really leading in the aream through the Ryan Institute at URI, we’re leading in the area of Alzheimer’s research And so this is just one area that’s you know impacting the health of the state. So it’s really going to allow us.
Donnis: Let me stop you there because we’ve got a lot of ground to cover. We see how the research triangle area in North Carolina is a growing competitor for the very robust life sciences sector in Boston and Cambridge. Does that show that with Rhode Island now making a push in life sciences, it might be a bit too late to the game?
Parlange: It’s absolutely not. No, it’s not too late. And I should remind that already we are in the game in a serious way. We have a very serious, it’s called, INBRE. It’s more than a hundred million dollar program to build the biotechnology sector in the state. It’s been incredibly successful. It’s pulled together all the universities in the state of Rhode Island. Our collaborations with our colleagues across the state are very important. And it’s also interesting, a lot of the key startups that are coming are really in the life sciences area. Started by, actually, faculty and students from the University of Rhode Island.
Donnis: You were in Middletown for the groundbreaking of a new National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration Operations Center last month with our former Governor Gina Raimondo, now the U.S. Commerce Secretary. This is part of efforts to develop the so-called blue economy in Rhode Island. How would you quantify the impact of the blue economy right now? And to what extent can it grow?
Parlange: It’s huge. I’ll just give you a very quick example. In ‘95, we only had three oyster farms. Today, we have more than 85 oyster farms. It’s grown from maybe $50,000 profit 30 years ago to today, more than $50 million profit for the state. And that’s just, we’re just talking about oysters there. If we look more broadly offshore wind, many aspects of undersea vehicle technology. the university of Rhode Island actually had the very first ocean. engineering program in the country, and that program continues to be outstanding and a world leader. And that was actually a big part of what attracted me to join University of Rhode Island. We also know about the importance of the Graduate School of Oceanography and many of the environmental marine sciences, marine biology. So it’s, it is a big deal. The ocean is in many, many ways, key for the future of our planet.
Donnis: Can you put a dollar value on the current impact and to, and to what extent that can grow?
Parlange: So people, right now would talk about five billion dollars for the state of Rhode Island in the blue economy. That has obviously many, many sectors that are associated with that. We see it as a big attactor. I remind all my new undergraduates that are starting and graduate students that you are the new Rhode Islanders. And I’m really pleased to say that we’re really seeing that entrepreneurial spirit of our students and the startup of new companies all the time.
Donnis: Speaking of the entrepreneurial spirit. You have an ambitious strategic plan. One of the goals is to make URI a hub for innovation. Former Governor Raimondo talks a lot about innovation, but by the time she left for Washington in 2021, Rhode Island’s top job sectors had not changed and the state had actually lost jobs in advanced manufacturing. So what is your plan for increasing the amount of innovation associated with URI?
Parlange: So I think it’s important to mention there’s 1,600 manufacturing companies in the state of Rhode Island, a very important part of the economy. It’s obviously many smaller companies, but it is an area that we wish to grow. We are Rhode Island’s university and how we go really will affect the future of the state of Rhode Island. So it’s not only that our graduates are starting companies, but we’re actually playing a key role in attracting companies such as Orsted to the state of Rhode Island to be able to set up here. They want to be able to hire our graduates. I remind also in related fields, for example, Amgen. They’d love to hire our graduates. I was just at the airport running into some of our students who are going to stay in Rhode Island that had come from other states. And Amgen is delighted to be able to hire them and have them start their careers here.
Donnis: This can be a challenging time to be a university president. I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that we’ve seen some University presidents called to testify before congressional Republicans, critics like New York Times columnist Tom Friedman and comedian Bill Maher say many universities are in the grip of a progressive ideological framework. Let’s listen to a recent clip from Maher’s show on HBO.
Excerpt from “Real Time with Bill Maher”: There are few if any positive coming out of what happened in Israel, but one of them is opening Americans’ eyes to how higher education has become indoctrination into a stew of bad ideas among them the simplistic notion that the world is a binary place where everyone is either an oppressor or oppressed.
Donnis: So how about that? Maher is no conservative, but he says too many universities are fostering an overly simplistic view of the world. What is your reaction to that?
Parlange: Well, my immediate reaction is that is an overly simplistic assessment of universities. Universities are all about their people. I have to say the best job in the world is to be the University of Rhode Island President. I really am so amazed each and every single day by our faculty, by our students, by our staff. It is really a community of scholars. There’s a lot of generosity. We’ve had, what I would say is an extremely safe and welcoming environment is an inclusive environment. We have had very good discussions where people have different points of view, but we’ve been able to pull together as a community from many, many different groups, you know, student groups. And I will include Hillel, the Middle Eastern student association, the South Asian student club, the young social democratic club. Many students have come together to be able to actually wrestle with some of the thorny and difficult questions of our time. So I would say that, I would disagree with that statement. I think that actually a university is an important place where we really foster serious thinking and research.
Donnis: URI recently completed a $300 million fundraising drive ahead of schedule. How will that money be used?
Parlange: Thank you very much for mentioning that. I was happy, to see that mark, we’re not quite finished with the campaign, so as Lil O’Rourke, the President of the Foundation, would say, we’re going to go charging past the 300 mark. I’m really grateful to the more than 34,000 students, faculty, alumni, staff who have contributed, corporations. Largely, it’s going to go to support student scholarships. We currently spend, in student aid, more than 150 million each year. We support in talent development, $15 million. There’s a real need for support for our students in terms of scholarships. And then the other area is really to support our faculty for the good work that they do and research that informs our teaching.
Donnis: You mentioned student aid. Student debt has become a big burden for a lot of young people. What do you think should be done more broadly to address that?
Parlange: So, if I just talk about the University of Rhode Island, we have done everything in our power to keep tuition rates incredibly competitive. We are the least expensive to come to of the New England publics, both for in state and out of state. We offer, really, truly world class opportunities for our students. I’m so proud of the work that they’re doing in the classroom, but also outside the classroom. I think the greatest thing that America brought to the world, quite frankly, is the research university. I have spent my time also outside the United States. And if you look at Canada, Australia, Europe, Everybody wants to have research universities like the United States, which are really attracting students and really creating new knowledge for the world. So, I would say that we have done everything we can to really support our students, and to make it as affordable as possible.
Donnis: Back in 2022, the National Science Foundation ranked URI 158th among the amount of research and development money spent by American universities. How have things changed since then and what can be done to expand the amount of research at URI?
Parlange: We are growing our research and that’s really so important for the state of Rhode Island. We are attracting new partnerships, not only with the NSF and with NOAA and EPA and the other NASA, but we’re also doing a lot more with companies, research and partnership to really look at leading edge questions. I had mentioned earlier, for example, in the biomedical sciences, the work that’s going on from health sciences, all the way through business, engineering, on to the the blue economy has been really important. We have a Brand new Vice President for Research and Economic Development, Bethany Jenkins, and she’s really leading the charge with our faculty to build this area.
Donnis: URI recently announced a new collaboration with the utility Rhode Island Energy. What is the significance of that?
Parlange: That’s a great partnership. We’re thrilled to be able to have that. It’s really around building what we discussed earlier, topics such as offshore wind, thinking about how we decarbonize our energy system. It includes topics that, and I’ll remind that we have a reactor on campus, on our Bay campus. And so it’s, it’s an important research, looking at how our energy systems of the future are going to evolve.
Donnis: And the endowment at URI has traditionally been quite a bit smaller than some of your counterpart universities. I believe it’s about a third of UConn’s. How’s the outlook for increasing that?
Parlange: So we’re building that. And again, I’m very thankful to all the donors that we’ve had, that have stepped up to contribute to that. We are working hard. It is an area in the long term for the long term sustainability of the university. It’s extremely important. University of Rhode Island is going to be here in 100, 200 years. And what we do now is going to be important going forward.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Thank you for joining us so much, University of Rhode Island President Marc Parlange.
Parlange: Thank you very much.
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The most recent heyday for Rhode Island Republicans was back in the 1980s and 1990s, when the GOP won a number of state general offices with a mix of fiscal conservatism and social moderation. These days, the party has fully embraced the message of Donald Trump. So will that help or hurt when it comes to building Republican representation in the General Assembly. For now, the GOP holds just 14 of 113 seats. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at ThePublicsRadio.org/TGIF and on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon.
That’s it for our show. Political Roundtable is a production of The Public’s Radio. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
Cunha is the top federal prosecutor in the state, and his office has enormous power. After being nominated by President Biden in 2021, Cunha has pursued federal prosecutors’ standard approach in zeroing in on crimes involving drugs, fraud, guns, and violence. But these are not normal times. If Donald Trump retakes the White House in November, he is expected to remake the Justice Department, and Trump says he’d consider pardoning people who rioted at the capitol on January sixth. So what’s it like pursuing the rule of law in the time of Trump? And how much difference can federal officials make in improving the lives of vulnerable kids? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with U.S. Attorney for Rhode Island Zachary Cunha.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
U. S. Attorney Zachary Cunha: Thanks for having me.
Ian Donnis: Let’s start with the Washington Bridge, a favorite topic of Rhode Islanders. The U. S. Justice Department is examining possible false claims for services or use of federal dollars related to the bridge. What is the status of that investigation?
Cunha: Well, I want to be careful how I answer that. I think there’s been some public reporting that individuals have received civil investigative demands under the False Claims Act. I think there have actually been images of those demands that have wound up in the press. And I’m not going to deny that those are authentic, but my ability to talk about any ongoing federal investigation is limited as a matter of longstanding department policy.
What I will tell you, and I think it’s important for the public to understand, you mentioned the False Claims Act. Under that particular statute, what the federal government looks at, as is often the case in a federal investigation, the federal government is looking at a relatively narrow issue. Whether the government was billed for or paid for something that it didn’t get. So we’re not conducting some sort of wide ranging review into the engineering of a particular situation or whether something was well managed. We’re looking at one discrete particular issue.
Ian Donnis: Okay, well, let’s switch gears. During a news conference earlier this month, you said the state has routinely and unnecessarily segregated children with mental health or developmental disabilities at Bradley Hospital. These children are under the aegis of the State Department of Children, Youth and Families. Are you satisfied with the state’s response to date?
Cunha: Well, that’s a tragic case, and the situation involving those kids is absolutely heartbreaking, and that’s one of the reasons why we decided to move forward. What I can tell you at this point is we’ve issued our letter of findings, the state has reached out and has engaged with us and indicated an interest in discussing a potential resolution, and those confidential conversations are ongoing, and we’ll see where those lead.
Ian Donnis: There have been a lot of troubling and familiar issues involving DCYF for many years. Why does it take the involvement of your office, bringing to bear the power of the federal government to get the state to seemingly take more notice?
Cunha: Well, I can’t speak to sort of long term institutional issues at DCYF. What I can tell you is, we have a particular focus under Title II of the ADA about whether the rights, the civil rights of these kids are being violated, and we conducted a multi-year investigation and concluded that they were, and when we find things like that, we have no choice but to step in.
Ian Donnis: As you say, the parameters in this case are relatively narrow. Is there a role for your office or the federal government to play in these broader issues involving the care of vulnerable children in Rhode Island?
Cunha: Again, I’m not going to comment on the scope or extent of any non-public investigation. All I’ll say is if there is a federal civil rights angle that’s brought to our attention, we investigate it.
Ian Donnis: There’s an old saying that people are entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. I’m sure you’ve heard that one.
Cunha: I think that’s Ben Franklin.
Ian Donnis: Right, we live in a time, nonetheless, when a lot of people, possibly a third of Republicans according to some polls, believe Donald Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was stolen. What happens to the rule of law when millions of Americans cannot agree on basic facts?
Cunha: Well, I want to start by saying my job is not a political one. I’m a political appointee, but you don’t do the job of a prosecutor from a, through a political lens if you’re going to do it right. And I think it’s critically important that we have engaged, informed citizens.
I’ll tell you that despite what I do for a living every day, I’m actually an optimist. I was down in Narragansett a few weeks ago with some kids who had taken part in a C-SPAN documentary series. And the extent to which these kids were engaged, informed and optimistic about their ability to participate in the system and effect change was inspiring. So, I think there’s a lot to be hopeful out there. There’s also a lot that’s of concern. We try and address that in a lot of different ways. We have an initiative that my office has been participating in called United Against Hate, where we go out into the community and we talk to different groups, whether it’s religious groups, community groups, civic organizations, about the corrosive effect of hatred and prejudice in communities and what we as a community can do and what we as federal law enforcement can and can’t do to combat those things.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with Rhode Island’s top federal prosecutor, U. S. Attorney Zachary Cunha. You say you view your job and your mission as maximizing public safety. We know how violent crime in the United States has generally trended down since the advent of the nine millimeter pistol, the crack epidemic and a large demographic group of young men and from the 80s into the 90s caused a massive spike in violent crime. Nonetheless, many people seem to have a perception or a belief that crime is really bad in many places. What are your thoughts on that disparity?
Cunha: Well, you know, two thoughts. First of all, we can talk about statistics. Every violent crime involves a victim and the impact on those victims can’t be overstated. Statistically, looking locally, I think the Providence Police Department, as an example, is doing a fantastic job dealing with violent crime. If you look at the numbers of Homicides this year, they’re lower than they were last year. The number of gun crimes this year is lower than they were last year. I think we’re currently at 23 down from 41 last year. And our goal as a federal law enforcement partner, which is, again, we’re not the primary Prosecutor for most gun crime. That’s the state. But our goal is how can we help? How can we help the Providence police department hold those gains and continue to drive those numbers in the right direction?
Ian Donnis: Your counterpart in Massachusetts acting U.S. Attorney Joshua Levy has made it clear that people who make violent online threats could face prosecution. What level of that activity are you seeing in Rhode Island?
Cunha: Well, again, we address that in a couple ways. One is our outreach efforts to educate people about what the standard is for a federal prosecution of a violent extremist threat. And two, we work very closely with the FBI to assess those threats if and when they’re made to see if they meet the threshold for federal prosecution. And we’ve brought those cases in appropriate instances.
Ian Donnis: You mentioned efforts by your office to discourage hate. We see nonetheless how members of a white supremacist group visited Cumberland in February and other hate groups have dropped flyers in Rhode Island towns in previous years. What level of concern do you have about the activity of these groups? Individuals and their attempt to organize online.
Cunha: Well, obviously any expression of hatred, particularly against a particular minority group, whether it’s racial, religious or otherwise, is deeply concerning. And that’s part of the reason we’re out in the community, educating people about what they can do in these instances. There are some instances where that conduct may violate state law, but may not rise to the level of. a crime that can be prosecuted federally and that’s part of our educational effort, but it’s an issue that we watch very closely because we don’t want to see that take for the route in our community.
Ian Donnis: A bill regulating the so called safe storage of guns appears on track to become law in Rhode Island this year after many years of effort by supporters. Supporters point to how a lot of gun deaths involve. Suicide is a leading cause of many gun deaths. Opponents say they fear that if their gun is locked up, they might not be able to defend themselves if someone breaks into their home in the middle of the night. Is that really a legitimate concern that burglars are likely to be breaking into houses when people are home in the middle of the night?
Cunha: Well, it’s not appropriate for me to comment on a pending state legislative matter. I can tell you federally what we’re focused on are illegal use of firearms, whether it’s Glock switches that turn semi automatic weapons into machine guns or people who are in possession of firearms who are legally prohibited from doing that. That’s our primary focus.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of those switches and the proliferation of ghost guns, which are made with untraceable parts with parts sent through the mail or the post, what kind of challenges does this pose for law enforcement?
Cunha: It poses huge challenges for law enforcement. I mean, the first and most practical is there are so many settings in which law enforcement is interacting with a potential suspect where they’re potentially armed in a way that they might not have been years ago because these guns are so readily available. And, there’s a very big difference between facing somebody who has a semi automatic pistol and someone who’s effectively carrying a machine gun. So that’s concern number one. And the second is just generally the proliferation of these weapons in our communities and the damage that they can do.
Ian Donnis: There are tons of guns in America. What can be done with the proliferation of these parts that make it easier to increase the fire of guns and to have more untraceable guns?
Cunha: Well, I mean, that’s a problem that Involves a lot of different constituencies and trying to respond to it from our perspective. We try and prosecute some of those cases. I mean, for example, that little device that converts a semi automatic into a fully automatic weapon, that basically qualifies as a machine gun under federal law. So that is something that we prosecute so that we hopefully take those guns off the street and send the message that if you carry one of these, you’re going to face a federal prosecution.
Ian Donnis: Some of your predecessors as U. S. Attorney have gone into politics. There’s former, the late former governor Lincoln Almond, of course, Rhode Island’s attorney general, Peter Nerona is your immediate predecessor. Does politics offer any interest for you?
Cunha: Ian, my only focus is doing the job that I’ve been appointed to do. I feel completely blessed to have the chance to do this job every day, and I hope I have a good bit of time yet to do it. I feel like we’re doing great work, we’re making good progress, and we’re heading in the right direction.
Ian Donnis: If President, if former President Trump wins in November, you will be out of a job. Have you been increasing the closing of your cases due to the looming presidential election?
Cunha: We move our cases on their merits and on their timeline. That’s the only thing that I’m focused on.
Ian Donnis: And critics say that regulatory capture is a serious issue, that the Sacklers of Purdue Pharma were able to essentially get their way with the Food and Drug Administration. You’ve prosecuted healthcare fraud in the past. What can be done about regulatory capture?
Cunha: Well, that’s one of the reasons that we’ve devoted as many resources as we have to things like complex healthcare fraud and white collar enforcement, because that’s one of the areas where the federal government taking effective and decisive action can really change corporate culture. And I’ve seen it in the healthcare fraud arena. In terms of the way that drugs are marketed and pharmaceutical representatives are compensated. Over time, we’ve actually made change in the way that the industry does business, and we continue to try and do that all the time, in the opioid space and otherwise.
Ian Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us, Rodon, U. S. Attorney Zachary Cunha.
Cunha: Thanks for having me.
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When the well-known Boston chef Jasper White recently died at age 69, he was widely remembered for raising the profile of the food and flavors of New England. White ran his own restaurant for years in the North End of Boston and later became known for his Summer Shack seafood venues. But the obits and tributes mostly did not mention how White got his start cooking in Providence. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at ThePublicsRadio.org/TGIF and on what used to be known as Twitter at IanDon.
That’s it for our show. Political Roundtable is a production of The Public’s Radio. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
Rhode Island Lieutenant Governor Sabina Matos was the early favorite in the race for an open seat in the First Congressional District last year. But a signature-gathering scandal took on a life of its own, and undermined Matos’ hopes of landing in Congress. Her boss, Governor Dan McKee, shows how a lieutenant governor can move up if they’re in the right place at the right time. But some Rhode Islanders continue to question the value of the lieutenant governor’s office. So what does Matos say about that? What has she done to overcome the disappointment of her performance in last year’s congressional race? And what does Matos say about Democrats losing support among Latinos? This week on Political Roundtable, Ian Donnis goes in-depth with Lieutenant Governor Sabina Matos.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Lieutenant Governor Sabina Matos: Good Morning, thank you so much for having me.
Donnis: You ran in the first congressional district last year. You were the frontrunner at the start and then there was a signature gathering controversy that proved to be a difficult issue for your campaign. If you could do that all over again, is there anything you would have done differently?
Lt. Gov. Matos: I have to say that I think all of us have a lot to learn from what happened last year. I learned a lot. I have to say there’s so many things that if I could do over again, I probably would change. But as we say, hindsight is 20/20, right? So right now what I can tell you is that I learned many lessons. I learned that you have to trust but also verify. You need, also, I learned that I have to trust my instinct more. Because, there were many instances in which things were happening, and my instinct was to do something different, and I didn’t follow my instinct. And the other thing that I learned is that our system needs strengthening. And that’s why I’m so happy that the Secretary of State Amore has taken that initiative to make sure that we make the changes that we need to make in our election system to ensure that the people of Rhode Island, the voters, don’t lose faith in our democratic process.
What happened last year was actually a disservice to our democratic process. This was a violation of the trust of the people of the state of Rhode Island, of the voters of the state of Rhode Island. And we have to make sure that something like that doesn’t happen ever again.
Donnis: Has your experience of what happened changed your view of public service and how you approach your job as lieutenant governor?
Lt. Gov. Matos: Public service has been rewarding because every time you, it’s what an experience every time that I get a message from someone who just lets me know how some work that my office did changed their life or changed an issue, a challenge that they were having and how we were able to help them. But also every time I get a message, especially from young women, that send me a message telling me how they see me in public service and they feel identified. They feel like if I, if she can do it, I can do it also. Those are the moments in which, help. Those are the moments actually that helped me to get through the tough moments, right? And that’s, those are the moments that I was more reliant on last year, through all the tough moments that I went through last year.
Donnis: So far this year, you’ve released a policy plan on Alzheimer’s disease. You’ve called for changes to the small business councils you oversee in your role as Lieutenant Governor and talked up the idea of employee ownership of businesses. These all seem like worthy efforts, but I wonder if you have any bolder, more high profile initiatives that you’re planning or pursuing.
Lt. Gov. Matos: Oh, I believe those are very bold. Those are those are bold and high profile initiative. When we look at the Alzheimer’s. and I can tell you once we announced the plan with the announcement that we had was for the five year plan for the state of Rhode Island. This is the second plan. And the feedback that I got from people in the community that were so grateful to see that we were prioritizing the Alzheimer’s related diseases, and you won’t believe the amount of people that are dealing with. relatives, loved ones that are suffering with Alzheimer’s or are caring for someone that is suffering with Alzheimer’s.
So this is very relevant and it’s something that we need to make sure that we provide every support that we can from the state level to the people suffering from Alzheimer’s. When we look at the small business and the employee owned, this is crucial right now. Our population in the state of Rhode Island for the year 2030, 25 percent of our population is going to be over the age of 60. And when you think about that 12,000 businesses in the state of Rhode Island are owned by individuals over the age of 60, they start thinking about retirement. If we don’t have a plan, if we don’t get prepared for when those individuals decide to retire, we could be in a situation in which we could lose those businesses after we have supported them to grow in the state of Rhode Island. If they don’t have a succession in place, what could happen is that those businesses could be closed or could be moved out of the state. The employee-owned option is something that could be available for those businesses that don’t have a plan, don’t have someone that is going to be taking on the business after the founders decide to retire.
So this is a pressing issue that we should be working on. If we sit and wait, it’s gonna be too late. These are things that require working ahead of time.
Donnis: You’ve had some ups and downs in your relationship with Governor McKee. I wonder what do you consider the best accomplishment that you and the governor have worked on together?
Lt. Gov. Matos: The governor and I have an excellent working relationship. I always have to go back to the beginning. The governor and I started during the pandemic, making sure that we brought vaccination to every municipality, every community. I think that was crucial. I work also with the governor in developing the 2030 plan for the state of Rhode Island. I continue to work with him in collaborating. Right now, they’re looking at ways in which we can increase the people’s income. Again, I’m going to go back to the employee owned option in which if you look at the data, those that are employee owned tend to have a 33 percent higher income than those individuals that are just employees. So this is a way in which we can ensure that we’re increasing people’s income and also helping them to build wealth.
Donnis: The Rhode Island Brotherhood of Correctional Officers, the correctional officers union at the state prison, is very critical of Governor McKee’s nomination of the interim director Wayne Salisbury to be the permanent director of the State Department of Corrections. They say he’s had a brush with the law. They don’t think he has the right stuff to be director. How do you respond to this criticism?
Lt. Gov. Matos: I trust the governor’s decision, and his trust that Wayne is the right person and I believe that the governor is making the right decision.
Donnis: It was about two months ago when Governor McKee promised a day of accountability and a reckoning on the Washington Bridge. Traffic is generally better on the bridge, but it still takes a long time to get over some other areas like the Henderson Bridge during rush hour. When will we see this day of reckoning that the governor called for?
Lt. Gov. Matos: We’re still waiting for the investigation that’s taking place. This is gonna be a possible legal process coming. So there’s information that we still don’t have available to share. As soon as it’s available, the governor will share that.
Donnis: Your political success reflects how we’re seeing a lot more diversity in Rhode Island politics. Bodies like the Providence City Council, the General Assembly are much more diverse with people of color than they once were. At the same time, there are still a lot of economic disparities for people of color in Rhode Island. How do you think that should be addressed?
Lt. Gov. Matos: Well, I’m very happy to see where we are right now. If you remember when I was elected to the Providence City Council at that moment, although in the past we’d had more females, but at that moment I was the only woman elected during that election. And we have made some gains, in the General Assembly, thanks to the hard work that a lot of people have been doing in the Latino community. What we have seen right, what we see right now, it has taken years of preparation and work. We always have to go back and recognize the work that the founders of the Latino Political Action Committee did: Dr. Pablo Rodriguez, Nelly Gorbea, Melba Depena, Victor Capellan, Angel Taveras.
Donnis: Sure. But after this success, what is, how can economic disparities be reduced for people of color?
Lt. Gov. Matos: It goes back to housing. It’s go back to houseing. If we want to address the challenges that the people of color and every community is having here in the state of Rhode Island goes back to housing. Right, now people are paying more than 35 percent of their income on housing. That is making them, that they’re not, it’s making. It’s causing them not to be able to have the resources to be able to provide for their family. So housing is one.
The second one, which is another initiative of the governor’s education. We have to ensure that we continue to provide education opportunities for people of color and low income individuals in the state of Rhode Island. That’s the only way we can ensure there’s going to be economic mobility for them and to be able to increase their income, and to be able to improve the quality of life and of their families
Donnis: As a Latina, you are a staunch Democrat, but we hear these days about how more Latinos in various states are voting Republican. Why do you think that is?
Lt. Gov. Matos: Well, Latinos, we are not monolithic. We care about the same issues that every other population cares about. Yes, we have been more, we have been closer to the Democratic Party. I believe the Democratic Party has always been more inclusive and has been championing these issues that we care about. We care about education. We care about the economy, bringing opportunities, and the Democratic Party tends to do that.
Donnis: But if Democrats are losing support among Latinos, what is the answer for Democrats?
Lt. Gov. Matos: I believe, well, we cannot take the Latino vote for granted. And I think that’s the one thing that the Democrats have to do is to make sure that we’re not taking the Latino vote for granted. I can tell you from experience in previous campaigns, even dealing with presidential campaigns in the past, that the Latino vote has been taken for granted. People just assume that a Latino is gonna come out and vote. And there is not investment being made to ensure that the voters come out. I can tell you, I have seen more of a movement within the Republican Party lately has been making more investment with and reaching out to the Latino community. So the Democratic Party has to make sure that we do the same thing and we don’t take the Latino vote for granted.
Donnis: All right, we’ve got to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us. Rhode Island Lieutenant Governor Sabina Matos.
Lt. Gov. Matos: Thank you Ian.
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Progressive lawmakers in Rhode Island point to Massachusetts in urging support for a new tax on people who earn more than a million dollars a year. A so-called millionaires tax has raised $1.8 billion ahead of the end of the fiscal year in the Bay State. That’s a lot of money. But legislative leaders in Rhode Island remain cool to the idea of raising taxes on the well-to-do. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at thepublicsradio.org/tgif and on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon.
Central Falls broke ground on a new high school last month and millions of dollars have been raised for a new community center. But the one square mile-sized city, like the rest of the state, still has a way to go in addressing its need for housing, better jobs and higher performing schools. Can Mayor Rivera make more progress in delivering these needs? Rivera does not yet face any announced opponents for re-election this year and she’s an up and comer in Rhode Island politics. Does she plan to run statewide in 2026? And what does this Democrat say about how more Latinos are voting Republican? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with the mayor of Central Falls, Maria Rivera
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Mayor Maria Rivera: Thank you for having me
Donnis: How did you get interested in politics?
Mayor Rivera: That’s a question that I’m still asking myself. You know, I never had an ambition of running for office. I took a leadership class in 2014, and after I took that leadership class, There were many people who were reaching out to me asking if I should run, asking me to run for office.
It was a lot to take in, and I really had to think about it because I was a single mom, I was working full time, plus I was also back in school full time. So this was going to be a huge load on my shoulders, but after like six months I decided to run for office, and I ran for office and became a councilwoman.
Those first two years I just took everything in, right, just learned the process, learned the budget process, really understand the politics. I never grew up around anybody who was involved in politics. Two years after I became the city council president, which was very surprising, I was the first female and Latino city council president, and that was a unanimous decision. I didn’t have to ask anybody for the position.
Donnis: And when you ran for mayor and won in 2020, you became the first Latina mayor in Rhode Island. What are the top challenges that you’ve faced?
Mayor Rivera: You know, I had so many people reach out to me just congratulating me and saying, you know, you’re the first Latina mayor. It’s so exciting. And to me, that only meant I have to work so much harder. Right? Because I had to prove myself to people. That’s how I felt. I had to work so much harder, prove that I was able to accomplish the things that I have accomplished in this position and build on relationships. At the same time, there were many people that were probably doubting that I could take on this position, right?
Like, what does it mean to be a Latina in a position like this? But then again, I have a community that’s 70 percent Latino. It’s only important to have someone that’s representative of that community that understands that community to be in that position. And take care of the needs of that community.
Donnis: You prioritized housing when you became mayor, and Central Falls has seen the development of more than 200 new units of housing during your first term as mayor. This is in contrast to the sharp opposition we’ve seen in some other cities and towns. So, what have the keys been to moving forward with housing in Central Falls?
Mayor Rivera: You know, it’s no secret that housing, the homelessness issue and housing is one of the biggest challenges, not only in our state, but it’s also in Central Falls and in our nation. And I knew I had to prioritize housing, especially after the pandemic, Central Falls being the hardest hit community. We were asking residents to do something they couldn’t do, which was to isolate. When you have two and three families living in one apartment, everybody was being impacted with COVID. So I knew I needed to work on that. Central Falls is a very small community. It’s already very dense. There’s not a lot of space to build on, but I know I had to do something. So I identified properties in the city that were not being used. I contacted the owners and said, what are you doing with your property? You need to present me with a plan. If you don’t present me with a plan, can you sell it or can you work with the city or the city’s going to put you in receivership? And this is how we’ve been able to acquire some of these properties.
But the bigger challenge was that the city didn’t have funding to purchase these. So when I came into office, I had a housing summit. I spoke with a lot of people. It was like 200 people. on a housing summit via zoom. From this housing summit a report came out and we were able to work with the general assembly to get site acquisition funding for the city to be able to purchase some of these properties that allowed me to purchase these properties and then submit applications with Rhode Island Housing to continue working on these projects because what was happening before before I came in. You know for the last 10 years we were submitting applications to Rhode Island Housing with these properties, they didn’t belong to the city.
So these applications were being denied because they didn’t belong to the city. The properties didn’t belong to the city. Like, how do you submit an application for a project you want to do when you don’t even own the property? So this is why we had to work on the site acquisition. And we’ve been able to purchase some properties like that in the city.
This has worked. We’re working with One Neighborhood Builders. We’re going to have a groundbreaking ceremony pretty soon where there’s going to be 44 units of affordable housing. We just had a press conference for another unit where we received site acquisition where we’re going to have 30 units for women and children who are facing domestic violence, who are going through immigration issues, who have homelessness issues.
The important issue with that piece of property is that we’re working with them to really empower them. So that in two years, these women are going to be able to go out into the community and self-sustain themselves because we’re taking these two years to help them with workforce development and whatever wraparound services that they need.
Donnis: That site acquisition money, is that a change from when we talked back three years ago? I did a story on how Central Falls did not get any money from a 40 million dollar housing bond approved by voters statewide in 2016. And at the time you said that Rhode Island housing’s methodology was kind of against the interest of Central Falls because it favored projects that were near completion. So is this site acquisition money something that resulted from your conversations out of that?
Mayor Rivera: Absolutely. This is where it comes from the housing summit that we had and having conversations with the governor, with the speaker, with the Senate president and the members and explaining to them, like, this site acquisition is important for communities like Central Falls because I have a 20 million budget. There’s no way I can take out what I have, funding to purchase these properties to then focus on projects.
Donnis: There was a groundbreaking last month for a new high school in Central Falls. Tell us about that. When will it be complete and what does that mean for the city?
Mayor Rivera: Yeah. the high school is, that’s going to be a game changer for the residents, for the students of the city of Central Falls. Having a new high school, it means a lot to our community. We have the oldest high school in the state, right? So, working so hard with everyone to get this past the finish line to finally have a groundbreaking means that the residents, the students of the city of Central Falls are going to have a space where they’re going to be able to go to and feel comfortable, right?
Where they’re not going to have shattering ceilings. Where they’re going to have, you know, a good library. They’re going to have a gym, they’re going to have so many different brand new things that are going to help them have that sense of pride that they deserve. You know, how do you go into a classroom? I don’t know if you’ve gone into the old high school, but it’s falling in pieces and it’s embarrassing and it’s not healthy for our kids.
Donnis: Speaking of schools, you’ve talked about working with former New York City mayor, businessman and philanthropist Michael Bloomberg to improve Central Falls schools. Where does that stand?
Mayor Rivera: You know, when we started having the conversation about a new high school, I know we had to do something more, right? We have the lowest student outcomes in Central Falls for reading and math. And I know we had to change something. Having a new building is not what’s going to change the outcomes, which is why I worked really hard to start the office of education strategy and I hired a chief education strategist to do an overall analysis of what’s happening in the schools. What are these gaps that we have to tap into so that we can help our teachers and so that we can help our students, right? We’ve been able to talk to over 700 teachers, students, teachers, community leaders, to listen to them, to ask them, you know, what is missing in your classroom? What does your classroom look like? And the stories, it’s impactful, right? We’re going to be doing a share out June 8th. I think it’s time that people know, what is happening in the classrooms. Our teachers are working really, really, really hard, but it’s hard for them to be able to do this work if they don’t have the resources. So I was able to raise almost a half a million dollars for us to be able to do this work.
Donnis: Let me stop you there because our time is short. I want to cover a few more questions. We’re talking here with Central Falls Mayor Maria Rivera. You’re an up and comer in Rhode Island politics. Is there any chance that you will run statewide in 2026?
Mayor Rivera: That’s the one million dollar question that I get from so many people. You know, my focus right now is what I’m doing in Central Falls. There’s a lot happening in Central Falls with education. You know, with housing, there’s so many different projects we’re working. Quality of life is so important for me.
We’ve worked very, very, very hard to make sure we work on the relationship between the police and the community, which has lowered the crime rate. We have the lowest overall crime rate we’ve had in over 20 years. This is my priority right now. I’m not closing the door and saying, you know, I’m not going to run for another position in the future. But right now my focus is in Central Falls and making sure that I finish what I started.
Donnis: You were one of the top vote getters to be a delegate at the Democratic National Convention this year after Providence Mayor Brett Smiley and State Senator Sandra Cano of Pawtucket. The New York Times came out with a poll this week showing that President Biden trails Donald Trump in a number of key battleground states. As a Biden supporter, what do you think the president needs to do differently to build his support?
Mayor Rivera: I actually think as leaders, as delegates who are supporting the president, we need to be speaking about what the president has done for our communities. You know, the perfect example, this is the first time our communities get funding through, the ARPA funding. It comes directly to us. I’ve been able to build homes for the residents of the city of Central Falls. We’re going to have an event next week for two families in the city of Central Falls to have these homes. This is thanks to the funding that we received from the president. There’s so many things that, you know, he has done for our nation that it’s up to us to educate people and explain to them why he should continue being our next president. And as leaders and as elected officials, we need to come together. to start working on this.
Donnis: Latinos and Latinas had traditionally voted Democratic, but we see that Latinos are voting more for Republicans in recent years. Why do you think that is?
Mayor Rivera: You know, it’s, that’s a huge concern for me, and I’ve been having this conversation with many other elected officials recently, because I see it on social media, how many Latinos are looking to vote Republican. I think it’s our responsibility to talk to them and explain to them why it’s important for them to vote for the president to continue in office.
Donnis: Why do you think they, that more Latinos are voting Republican?
Mayor Rivera: I think we need to educate them. You know, I think it’s about education and explaining to them, this is why you should be voting for the president. Sometimes, as Latinos, we’re not heavily engaged, Latinos are, especially in Central Falls, they’re not heavily engaged in politics. We need to talk to them about why it’s important for them to vote for the president. And sometimes, you know, they listen to someone tell them, nope, you should vote Republican for, for whatever reason. It’s up to me as the leader of that community to educate and talk to the residents of the city and explain to them. And sometimes all it takes is a simple conversation for them to say, yes, I now understand.
Donnis: I’ve saved the toughest question for last. You have some great restaurants in Central Falls. I recently enjoyed a visit to Tuxpan Taqueria. What is your favorite restaurant there?
Mayor Rivera: That’s the other million dollar question that so many people ask me. I will never say what my favorite restaurant is because we have so many amazing authentic restaurants, but I can tell you what’s my favorite dish at every restaurant. And I can tell you that with Tuxpan, it’s the chicken quesadilla.
Donnis: Muy rico.
Mayor Rivera: Muy rico. Yes. Muy, muy rico.
Donnis: Thanks so much for joining us. The mayor of Central Falls, Maria Rivera.
Mayor Rivera: Thank you for having me.
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When it comes to partisan politics, Exeter is one of the most closely-divided communities in Rhode Island. Back in 2020, Donald Trump won the town by less than one percentage point over Joe Biden. Then in 2022, Democrat Megan Cotter ousted state Representative Justin Price, a Republican who was in Washington during the events of January 6th. Price now tells WPRI that he plans to try to regain his old seat. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at the publics radio-dot-org and on what used to be known as Twitter at IanDon.
Rhode Island has allocated hundreds of millions of dollars to address the state’s housing crisis. Despite that, there are few tangible signs of progress so far, and there’s pushback from some cities and towns and even from some Democratic lawmakers. At the same time, the gusher of federal COVID aid that enabled consecutive state budget surpluses has dried up. Because of that, large deficits once again loom ahead in future fiscal years. And Rhode Island continues to struggle with issues like underperforming schools and the quest for a more vibrant economy. So what will it take to make more progress on key issues like the housing crisis and the state’s fiscal outlook? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with the number two official in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, Majority Leader Christopher Blazejewski.
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Chris Blazejewski: Ian, thank you for having me.
Donnis: We’re seeing pushback from some cities and towns and even from your fellow Democratic lawmakers in the House on efforts to encourage more housing in Rhode Island. What needs to be done differently to make more progress in addressing the state’s housing crisis?
Blazejewski: You said it right there. We’re in a housing crisis, and this isn’t a crisis that Started overnight. This has been decades in the making and the house, with Speaker Stracarci’s leadership, but really the entire caucus. Has made housing a priority. If you want to have a place where everyone can have, an affordable place to live.
If you want to have a state where people can have their children, grow and live after they graduate and buy a house, we have to have a housing production that provides affordable alternatives. Affordable housing and production for at every income level in a smart growth way So we’ve really focused on that if you look at our last three budgets, we’ve not just included Legislation to promote housing.
We’ve also put money in the budget. We put 250 million dollars three years ago to support housing production, a hundred million last year and we’re looking at a hundred million dollar bond this year
Donnis: No one disagrees with anything that you just said, but when push comes to shove and things get real, there is opposition to some elements of the legislation that has been backed by your leadership team and there is resistance right now.
So what, what are the lessons from the last couple of years as far as trying to make ground? What, what kind of shifts or changes need to be made to overcome the resistance that we’re seeing?
Blazejewski: Sure, so with issues that have been created over decades, and you’re trying to solve them, you’re always going to find that there’s going to be some pushback.
One thing that we’ve tried to do with every piece of legislation we work on, in particular with the housing legislation, is to bring in the various interested parties and do the best we can to find compromise, consensus, and common ground. But where you are looking at something that has been entrenched for so many decades, there’s going to be some pushback.
We’re doing the best we can to advance what I think is a core need in our state, which is additional housing and do it in a way that working with our partners in state government, our partners in municipal government, but there’s going to be pushback. We’ll continue to try to address that pushback, but at the same time, we know we need more production. We know we need more affordable housing in the state.
Donnis: Should the state have an online dashboard as a really blunt indicator of how much or how little progress has been made on key issues like housing starts?
Blazejewski: Yeah, I think any sort of public metric is is great for me. We need to keep moving faster. We’ve put the resources in we need to see more production.
I think the speaker has been very clear about it. He wants to see more production in the housing in the housing area and we’ve been working with our partners to do that. But anything that gets the public engaged on the need to address the housing crisis I’m all in favor of.
Donnis: Your chamber, the House of Representatives will share its version of governor McKee’s budget proposal and either later this month or in early June. This is kind of a return to reality budget due to the end of federal COVID aid. How would you describe what that means for the state?
Blazejewski: So in the house, we take very seriously our constitutional obligation to pass a balanced budget. It is a core component of the work that we do and we will do it again this year. You’re right to say that this year is going to be more challenging. Over the last few years, we’ve had federal dollars that have flowed into the state as a result of various federal programs. Post-pandemic those dollars have mostly been appropriated at this point. So we’re back looking at a budget situation that looks more pre-pandemic. At the same time, we continue to try to address the needs of our state. Like we said, affordable housing, but also education, providing strong quality public education. My children go to Providence public schools. It’s a very important issue to me, but also looking at our health and human services, making sure that we are providing the resources to provide healthcare to people that need it, to, to seniors, to people living with disabilities, to people that are struggling the most. Human services as well.
We’ve looked at rate increases, which is really important. Reimbursement rates for the various healthcare providers in our state is key because we want to make sure that they, we, our Rhode Islanders can get the services they need.
Donnis: Due to the end of federal COVID aid, the state is once again looking at projected deficits far into the future. Can you envision a situation in which the state is not facing a structural deficit?
Blazejewski: Well, one way we’ve tried to do this, and the speaker has been clear, and our finance committee, which does fantastic work, has been clear about this, is to try to focus on, maintaining our current commitments instead of making new programs that increase the outstanding, budget years, and the deficits.
So doing what we do, we have currently committed to and doing it within our resources and doing it right is, is paramount. And so that’s what we’re really focused on. And I think if we do that prevents further exacerbation of outstanding budget deficits and the hope would be over time, we can start closing that gap, which we’ve been able to do over the last few years and hopefully can do into the future.
Donnis: We’re talking here with Rhode Island House Majority Leader Chris Blaszejewski, and the House is moving ahead with an overhaul of the Law Enforcement Officers Bill of Rights. Critics say that has inhibited effective internal discipline of police. How do you respond to critics who say that the overhaul backed by leadership in the House does not go far enough?
Blazejewski: Well, the, RIBLIA Caucus, some will vote for it.
Donnis: Explain what the RIBLIA is.
Blazejewski: The Black, Latino, Indigenous, Asian-American, caucus in our state. They are, some will vote for it, some may not vote for it. Some are very supportive of the legislation, and so we’ll see how that goes.
In terms of the legislation, I just want to take a step back and see how historic it is that we’re able to pass this piece of legislation that provides police accountability and transparency.
Back in 2010, before I was even in the assembly, the former executive director of the late Dan Beardsley, tried to introduce a bill to have LEOBOR reform, and couldn’t find a single sponsor, not one sponsor. And four years ago in 2010 [sic], with new efforts to have LEOBOR reform happen, Mr. Beardsley was asked again, if he ever thought it would pass, he said it wouldn’t pass.
And he’d bet his house on it. That’s what he told the Providence Journal. And yet four years later, because of the hard work we’ve done in the house and with our Senate counterparts, to bring people together, to bring the various stakeholders together, we have a new piece of legislation that provides accountability and transparency, and I’ll just say very briefly what it does.
First, it makes sure, and it is clear, that any officer who’s accused of and indicted on a serious crime can be immediately suspended without pay indefinitely. Secondly, it expands the board to include a retired judge, not just three police officers, to add a retired judge and attorney who’s appointed by the Supreme Court in consultation with panels in the court and with the bar association that are focused on racial and ethnic justice.
It provides transparency through a public reporting process that’ll be online. You’ll be able to follow the process of these LEOBOR hearings. And finally, and maybe most importantly, it takes off the gag order so that mayors and And police chiefs can speak openly about serious crimes that may be committed by police officers. We think this is a huge step forward on a major issue and is real reform.
Donnis: State workers and retirees who lost cost of living adjustment money due to the pension overhaul spearheaded by former Governor Gina Raimondo in 2011 are looking for the legislature to give them some money. Do you support that?
Blazejewski: Well, so, I was in the legislature in 2011. It was a very difficult situation. It was my freshman year, my first year in the chamber when pension reform happened. Over that time, the impact on retirees has been great. We are certainly aware of that. We’re doing our best given the budgetary constraints to look at the various proposals that have been offered by the treasurer to find ways to alleviate some of those concerns from the retirees and also current workers So we’re looking at both of those. No decisions have been made we’re still waiting on final numbers from the house budget office and the panel that puts together our final budget numbers. We should find that out tomorrow, maybe early next week and then we’ll take a look at what we can do in the budget
Donnis: We’ve heard for decades about how too many Rhode Islanders leave the state because of a lack of good jobs. You have two beautiful young kids, ages 7 and 10, I imagine you’d like to see them stay in Rhode Island when they are of working age. Are you satisfied with the state’s efforts to address the so-called brain drain?
Blazejewski: Well, we have to continue looking at this. It was just this year. We’re finally back at employment levels that exceed our pre-pandemic numbers. So we’re still in a recovery, a post-pandemic recovery. We’re continuing to do our budget to try to provide economic incentives for better, greater economic activity. But I think we all agree that we want to find ways to keep students in Rhode Island one of the programs that I worked on over the years has been a program that provides a tax credit for students that go to college in Rhode Island and stay and work in Rhode Island. Maybe something we will continue to look at to find ways to maybe to expand that to more people to say look if you decide to stay and put roots down here. We’d like to have you say, we’ll help you with your college debt. We’ve also worked on programs to make college more affordable, both CCRI and Rhode Island College. And then again, housing affordability, you need a place to live. So that goes right into the brain drain issue, making sure people can rent or buy a home once they graduate from high school or college.
Donnis: You are generally considered the heir apparent to House Speaker Joe Shekarchi, he has a massive amount of money in his campaign account, and there’s growing speculation about whether he will run for a different office in 2026, the next statewide election. Have you and he talked about whether he will seek a different office that year?
Blazejewski: So we have not, when we’re talking, we’re talking about legislation that’s happening this year. It’s truly an honor to be able to serve as Majority Leader.
Donnis: Come on, you guys don’t talk at all about this kind of thing?
Blazejewski: We really work on the people’s business. This is a part time legislature, and in this time of year, it is all about getting legislation done. You know, Speaker Shekarchi can do whatever he wants to do. He’s shown the talent to be able to do it, at any level. I hope he continues to serve in the legislature as Speaker. He’s done a tremendous job. I just want to mention, you know, In terms of working with our caucus and trying to change the culture up there, we’ve really tried to be more inclusive, and the Speaker has done that through his leadership.
As part of our Democratic caucus, we really try to take their input. Two pieces of legislation that come to mind for me are first, the firearm safe storage legislation. It’s supported by a lot of the members of the caucus. We’ve been working really hard on that bill. It’s aimed at trying to prevent the kind of tragedies that you can have in homes when there are firearms that aren’t safely stored.
Secondly is a health care shield bill that tries to protect doctors who are providing care in Rhode Island, when they, from hostile out of state laws that have been passed after the fall of Roe versus Wade. These are two issues that I think our Democratic caucus supports and they’re things that we’re really working to try to get over the finish line.
Donnis: Just in closing, as a liberal Democrat, are you concerned that the Biden administration’s approach to the conflict between Gaza, between Hamas and Israel will erode Biden’s chances in November?
Blazejewski: So, I was just reminded, Ian, just the other day, that the last time I was on this show was right after January 6th.
And I think we, in Rhode Island and across the state as Democrats, and really as Americans, we need to get Biden re-elected. You and I had the same conversation right after January 6th. And I remember crystal clear turning on my TV and I just could not believe that the images I was seeing of the attack on the Capitol was happening in this country.
I take Trump at his word. When Trump says if he does lose, there’s going to be a bloodbath in the street. It’s always ‘heads I win tails you lose’ with him. This is our democracy. And we, if we hold it dear, we need to rally around Biden. And I think the American people will, when summer turns into fall, realize that it’s as Biden likes to say, it’s not a choice between him and the almighty, it’s been him and the alternative and the alternative here is going to be Donald Trump. And we’ve got to make sure Biden gets reelected.
Donnis: Thanks very much for joining us, Rhode Island House Majority leader, Chris Blazejewski of Providence.
Blazejewski: Thank you, Ian.
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Rhode Island GOP Chairman Joe Powers staged a news conference this week to criticize Democrats for their handling of the Washington Bridge. Many Rhode Islanders can identify with the frustration cited by Powers. For now, though, it remains unclear if the bridge issue will help the state GOP to gain legislative seats in November. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon at thepublicsradio.org/tgif and on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon.
Rose’s book offers a new view of structural racism, how it works, and what is needed to make change. So are Americans ready to acknowledge the persistence of racism and how it affects our country? And how is the outlook for improving the situation in the heat of a high-stakes political year? This week on Political Roundtable, I’m going in-depth with director of Brown University’s Center for the Study and Race and Ethnicity in America, Tricia Rose.
TRANSCRIPT:This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to the Public’s Radio.
Prof. Tricia Rose: Thank you. It’s been a pleasure to be here again. It’s been a minute.
Donnis: It has been and we’re happy to have you back. We’re going to talk in depth about your book and issues that it raises, but I want to start with the news of the week: the nationwide protests about gaza. What is your sense of how this level of activism across the country will influence politics going forward this presidential year?
Rose: Well, it’s certainly going to be at the top of the debates and the top of the sort of Republican versus Democrat, sort of framing of what’s going on. I think what’s so important is that, minus the violence and the issues that are happening that we don’t want to happen when we protest, we want to remember it takes a lot of courage for students to do what they’re doing. Again, minus the negative agitators, I think we really want to focus in on how important student activism has been in many key points in history. In this election cycle, I think it’s going to be really important that Biden figure out a way, given his ardent and unrelenting support for all things Israeli government and state of Israel, that he’s able to sort of imagine that Gazan people are also equally important in the world, and that their allies are in this country, too. So he’s going to have some blowback from that. And I think Trump will probably have less conflict to manage on that subject.
Donnis: The outcome at Brown University, where students agreed to end their encampments in exchange for a vote by Brown later this year on whether to divest from companies doing business in Israel, was in sharp contrast to what’s happened at some other universities, particularly Columbia University in New York, where police shut down a student occupation.
Rose: UCLA is having, yeah.
Donnis: Right. What, what is your takeaway from why things worked out so differently at Brown?
Rose: Well, I mean, first of all, I’m super proud of Brown for this because, you know, there’s also a learning curve. We had a few issues in the fall after October 7th, you know, horrible violence.
And so I think, a few things have happened. One, I think there’s some key people on the campus who have been, who are close to students, respectful of the administration, but, trying to manage that tension with the bigger picture in mind, that, hey, we are, there’s not evil people and good people, and that there are conflicts and disagreements, and we need to figure out how to push people who are comfortable and complacent into change, but still hold on to the notion of a community. And I think Paxson deserves a tremendous amount of credit for being in dialogical conversations. Some boards at other schools and some presidents feel that that’s just an irrational thing to do, to talk to young people. So I think Brown really benefited from our culture and from our leader and from some strategic people who were really instrumental in keeping the teams together talking.
Donnis: Well, let’s get into your book, Metaracism: How Systemic Racism Devastates Black Lives and How We Break Free. Your book in part is about how individual or personal racism masks what is a complicated and durable system. Unpack that a little bit for us, if you would.
Rose: Sure. You know, we ironically talk a lot about race in this country, so much so that some might think, gee, how come we haven’t solved this given so much talk? What I argue in this book is that the talk we do does not illuminate where I think the most substantial discrimination happens. The talk we do about race are individual stories, extreme examples of individual racism. Police brutality is obviously a favorite among this group. But even individuals who suffer at the hands of local administrators who do something horrible and a family is left destitute, and racism is discovered as a point of origin. Right, those are the kind of stories we tell, like, “What happened to you? What happened to me?” But what’s very rarely said in public is what are the systems and processes and interactions of the way race and racism are operating at regional and national scales that explain the story you’re hearing in a much more productive way.
If we tell a story with connecting individual stories to these broader processes, a much bigger critique emerges, a much bigger understanding of what’s happening emerges. And I think people are uncomfortable with hearing it. And I think event-based news cycles are not as focused on those kinds of systems thinking. So I think that’s really our problem here that we’re not telling the right kinds of stories with the right kinds of evidence, with the right kinds of connectivity in order to come to the places that we should be, given how frequently we speak about race.
Donnis: The murder of George Floyd by police in Minnesota in 2020 kicked off a national protest movement against racism. Of course, it’s a lot harder to make systemic change than to demonstrate. And it seems like a lot of that energy has dissipated. Given what you say about how racism is built into a lot of systemic processes, how can progress be made?
Rose: Well, the point of seeing how systemic racism actually works is so that when we’re in situations like this, we have at our hands and at the ready, the right kind of story to tell that does not let the officer off the hook for choking him to death. But does not act as if this was a one time encounter that just happened to create this crisis. It’s in fact the way Black and brown communities are policed in general. It’s about the extra sort of punishment that has been normalized in schools in every, in the everyday practices of the police in terms of various forms of punishment systems that disproportionately punish Black people, not just the courts, but any number of other outlet institutions.
So having this other paradigm where I emphasize that these are connected systems, connected elements, right? And all of these elements in housing, in education, in health, in wealth, and so on, and criminal justice produce interconnections of difficulty that are greater than any one institution or area alone.
So if you have a criminalized form of, say, student punishment in a school, and that school is the only place this punishment happens, then that’s not going to be an interactive systemic dynamic. But if that kind of hyper punishment is also taking place in municipal courts, taking place on the street with police, it’s taking place in terms of how stop and frisk or stand your ground is being adjudicated, right? Are we going to hyper punish when Black people stand their ground and try to protect themselves? And the answer to that is yes.
Donnis: Let me push back for a second. We’ve heard about phrases for a long time, like the prison industrial complex, the school to prison pipeline, the war on drugs. There’s been a backlash, even by the establishment against these practices to some degree, at least. So does that show that there’s a wider appreciation for what you call metaracism and how the negative effects it has?
Rose: It shows that at different times. This is why systems theory is so helpful to me because systems are not static, right? I mean, you have the Koch brothers who built the whole notion of the prison industrial complex, invested in it profoundly, standing against it at a different historical moment. Now, does that mean we’ve improved things? I would need a lot more evidence than that movement of those two billionaires before I’d say yes. Because now it’s more productive to do something else. So systems adjust to produce similar outcomes. It’s not wedded to the practice itself. It’s wedded to the outcomes.
So as long as the, there’s a comfort zone between a certain kind of advantage for some groups, disadvantage for others. And as long as it happens relatively hidden. Because we no longer tolerate grotesque forms of extreme, you know, hate and subordination. We’re uncomfortable with that collectively. But we don’t mind that Mike Brown in St. Louis, in Ferguson, went to a school his entire life that was unaccredited. His whole life, his whole community went to schools that were unaccredited. They weren’t just a little bit bad. They were atrocious, right? And, and, you know, so when you look at all of this state by state, you’re like, well, how is that tolerable?
Donnis: And you might draw the same point about Rhode Island, that on one hand, we’ve seen a lot of progress that bodies like the Providence City Council, the General Assembly are much more diverse than they once were. The state police and the Providence police are now led by men of color, but public officials in Rhode Island have been talking for decades about the need to improve public schools, not just in Providence, but Pawtucket, Central Falls, Newport, other cities. And there’s been meager, if any, progress,
Rose: Right. And part of that is because when you make a change like that, now what you’re saying is. Yeah, everybody has to have relatively equal access to good opportunity. And once you do that, it reveals that some groups have had more access than others. It wasn’t just they were the norm, they actually had access to more. So in order for everyone to get that, you either have to super hyper fund everybody or you have to sort of redistribute. And that’s when people get very anxious and they feel that, that now they potentially think this is working against them. So why metaracism is helpful, I think, for us is because it helps us see how the system produces an investment in one’s own advantage, if you’re white, and an investment in other people’s disadvantage. It’s not because you’re a bad person. It’s not because you’re any kind of moral person. It’s not a judgment. It’s that that’s how the rewards are distributed, and it becomes a normal part of our process. We need a new way of understanding how these things fit together in society, how they work, so that we can undo it and have, in a sense, meta justice. That all these interconnections actually produce more opportunity for everyone. Not less for some, not reversing it for some and increasing it for others, but a much greater sense of collective access.
Donnis: You write in your book how, in your view, the notion of a colorblind society can really inhibit efforts to reduce racism. Explain that, if you would.
Rose: Yes, that’s a really great question, Ian. I should come here more often. That’s where the great questions live. So the problem with colorblindness is that, on the one hand, it appears to be a race neutral concept. I don’t see color, and therefore, you shouldn’t see color, and then our real selves will be seen. Well, there’s two things wrong with that. Number one, if you can’t see how race and color is operating in society to create tremendous gaps in, you know, wealth, 10 to 1 ratios of wealth gaps between Blacks and whites. Sentencing, hyper sentencing requirements, greater suspensions in school for Black kids, I can go on and on and on, lack of access to health care that is significant, low quality access to health care for Black and brown people. If that’s the case, how can not seeing color Help us actually fix that problem. That’s number one. Number two, the only people who benefit from imagining that we can’t see color are whites, because that is the invisible color that is functioning in this colorblind system. Nobody of color thinks it’s a good idea to not notice color because they have to survive in the world that is so driven by race that if they acted like they didn’t notice it, it would do no good. Now the other third thing that’s critical is that all the laws and policies I refer to in metaracism, almost all, actually all of them have colorblind language. and yet they produce racist results. So a colorblind language does not guarantee an equal colorblind just outcome. We have to examine what the outcomes are, what the advantages and disadvantages are. So we’re just too early to even use this term, much too early.
Donnis: All right. Well, we’ve got to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us. Tricia Rose, author of Metaracism, How Systemic Racism Devastates Black Lives and How We Break Free and a professor at Brown University.
Rose: Thanks, Ian. It was great to see you again.
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Two years is an eternity in politics. But we can already see the outline of the Democratic race for governor in 2026. At age 72, Dan McKee appears to be preparing to run for another term. And the first-time candidate who nearly edged McKee in the 2022 Democratic primary, former CVS Health executive Helena Foulkes, is actively raising campaign money. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon and on what used be known as Twitter @IanDon.
The Rhode Island Coalition for Children and Families recently sounded an alarm about a growing number of deaths and near deaths involving young children. The coalition is calling on Gov. Dan McKee and state lawmakers to take action to address the crisis. This situation has quietly developed over years and a number of different factors are responsible. So does Rhode Island have the will to do a better job in protecting the state’s most vulnerable children? And what other steps are needed to improve the lives of young people in the state? This week on Political Roundtable, Political Reporter Ian Donnis goes in-depth with Darlene Allen, chairwoman of the Rhode Island Coalition for Children and Families.
Transcript:Ian Donnis: According to the state, there were 28 deaths and 28 near deaths of children under 21 between 2019 and 2023. Then from June 2023 and this month, 10 more fatalities and 14 more near fatalities were reported. You say you’ve been a child advocate in Rhode Island for decades, and you’ve never seen so many tragedies without a plan to address it. Why has this situation gotten so bad?
Allen: Well, first off, thank you very much for inviting me here and giving me the opportunity to speak about this horrible situation that we’re seeing in Rhode Island. Yes, as you mentioned, I have been an advocate for many years and in the history of Rhode Island, unfortunately, we have had situations where there have been child fatalities and near fatalities. But prior to COVID they were fewer and further between and we would come together as a state and come up with some plans. Since COVID, we have just seen so many different crises across all of our systems. You report on them all the time. And I think our safety net really has started to fray. And it’s impacting kids across all, you know, across the entire state – every zip code, every age, from infant to really adulthood. So early childhood, including safe sleep, those issues are a concern. Children’s mental health issues, including the risk of suicide. And you know, we have 80 kids right now that are getting treatment outside of our state because we don’t have the resources. Youth-on-youth violence, unfortunately kids getting access to weapons, and abuse and neglect, including domestic abuse for adolescents. So they’re, the issues are wide and varied, but these are our kids, and we need to do something about it.
Donnis: Well, speaking about doing something about it, what can elected officials do to improve the situation in the short term and the long term?
Allen: I think that, you know, like we’re calling on all elected officials. We’re calling on the governor. We’re calling on the legislature. And really, we’re calling on all of us as Rhode Islanders and people that care about kids to convene a group and to work and to look at the details and to come up with a blueprint so that we can turn these trends around. I think, without going into details, there are definitely some concerns related to how are we making sure we’re investing in children’s services? Are we missing some areas and some gaps in services in our state?
Donnis: Darlene, you chair the Rhode Island Coalition for Children and Families. The coalition put out a statement about this crisis on April 16. Has there been any response so far by Gov. McKee or legislative leaders?
Allen: So Gov. McKee has, I think you probably reported, he did agree that something needs to be done. We have had some contact with Secretary Charest, and so hopefully we will be hearing from them about setting up some kind of a follow up meeting soon. And we have spoken with some legislators, but I can’t report that we have an action plan right now. We’re still in the process of trying to make sure that we have an action plan in place.
Donnis: Is it more difficult building political support for programs for children because of course children don’t vote, they don’t make political contributions, etc.?
Allen: You know, you kind of took the words out of my mouth as, you know, kids don’t vote. And so sometimes really trying to get airspace for children’s issues, when we have breaking news and we have so many challenges, both locally, nationally, and globally, it is hard to make sure that their needs and attention to their needs rise to a level that we need it to be. But I have to tell you what, you know, like I know a lot of elected officials and you know, particularly some of the women that have been elected over the last few years and when they knock on doors, their constituents and ultimately the people that elected them do ask about these kids, do follow this and they vote, parents vote, all of us in the human service sector we vote. And so hopefully we can use opportunities like this to raise awareness. I mean, a lot of people don’t even know that this is happening and hopefully once people are aware, we can come together and make a difference.
Donnis: Your coalition, I believe, encompasses more than 40 different organizations, so does the nonprofit sector bear any responsibility for not advocating more effectively for programs for children?
Allen: Well, I can say, I’m certainly not going to say no. I think we’re all responsible. I mean, I think that’s our point. You know, we all take responsibility. We all need to use every avenue. There has been an enormous amount of advocacy. Many of us have been up at the state house testifying on various bills, on the state budget, talking with our own legislators, talking with members of administration. So there has been advocacy. Obviously, we need to do more. That’s why I’m here.
Donnis: We’re talking here with Darlene Allen, chairwoman of the Rhode Island Coalition for Children and Families. And when your coalition put out this recent statement about the crisis facing vulnerable children right now, the point was made that many children in Rhode Island face despair and hopelessness. Why is that? What are the leading contributors to that?
Allen: Well, what we’re seeing – as you mentioned, we have more than 40 organizations, and our organizations serve children and youth of all ages and in many different ways, through early intervention, foster care, residential programs, counseling, other types of support. And what I think a common theme that we’re all seeing across the state and the system is really still a children’s mental health crisis. A lot of the kids are feeling they’re not doing well. They’re hurt and they have not bounced back from COVID like we all, I think, hoped. And so we’re seeing that sense of despair. We’re seeing kids feeling less connected, less sense of belonging, a lot more worries. I had a parent in my office last night, practically in tears. Her young child was in extreme mental health crisis. Their family, very unsafe behaviors. Their family went to Hasbro a couple of nights ago and what she described while she was trying to get help for her child was a room filled with other parents and other kids that were in extreme crises. And as soon as the doctor took her child to be seen, she burst into tears, not only for her own situation, but just seeing the overwhelming situation in our hospitals. And these children weren’t able to get beds at Bradley because there are no openings right now. So I think there’s a combination of kids are still suffering and we don’t have all the services we need to be able to help them.
Donnis: We’ve heard a lot about how these issues of mental health and depression affect also kids from middle class, upper middle class homes, who are not in a situation of poverty, and a lot of this seems the result of technology, smart phones, social media, Instagram, etc. What are your thoughts on what should be done as a state in Rhode Island to help children better cope with these kind of things?
Allen: Yeah. I think, I don’t know if it’s the result of [social media]. I think it’s a contributing factor. And I’m no expert on the technology aspect, but, you know, research does say that it impacts kids ability to socially connect, it impacts their isolation, their friendships, etc. So I think we do need to look at that and at the same time, research shows that the power of play. We need to help kids get back outside and do old-fashioned fun play, and those are the kind of things too that I’m even advocating in the housing space as we’re looking at the housing and homelessness crisis – having, making sure that the needs of children, the developmental needs of children are considered, as we’re clearly in need of building more housing and helping to make sure that the homeless resources, that we’re not keeping kids and families in hotels for extended period of time, that their developmental needs to be able to play and learn and grow are really important.
Donnis: Darlene, your day job is as CEO and Executive Director of Adoption RI.
Allen: Yes.
Donnis: Tell us about how many children are up for adoption in Rhode Island. What are your takeaways from your work with the agency?
Allen: Sure. Yeah, our agency has been around for 40 years and we’ve been involved in thousands of kids’ and families’ lives. It’s a very rewarding organization, rewarding work to be done. And there have been changes in the adoption world. In previous years, we did a lot of advocacy and a lot of recruitment kind of for strangers to match children with, and now the majority of our work is called family finding, family search and engagement. So there are children that are in the foster care system who need a family, need to be adopted, or need someone to care for them so they can get them out of the foster care system. So we work diligently. I have social workers. I have a private investigator that helps us knock on doors, search technology, do whatever we can to find extended family members, old coaches, old teachers, people that the children may have cared about. And that’s how we’re doing a lot of the work to help get kids adopted and get kids into families and out of the system.
Donnis: And about how many kids are up for adoption in Rhode Island right now?
Allen: There’s generally between 225 and 300 kids a year, yeah.
Donnis: And if people want to learn more about your agency, where’s the best way to get that information?
Allen: They can go to our website, www.adoptionri.org. We have a Facebook page, Instagram, Twitter. Give us a call, 401-865-6000. We’d love to hear from them.
Donnis: Darlene Allen, chairwoman of the Rhode Island Coalition for Children and Families, thank you very much for joining us.
Allen: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
The median price of a single-family home in Rhode Island was $440,000 in February, an almost 15% increase from a year earlier. The high cost of housing leaves many people on the outside of home ownership, looking in, squeezing out those with less money. So what will it take for the state to make more progress, and how long? This week, Ian Donnis goes in-depth with Rhode Island Secretary of Housing Stefan Pryor.
Transcript:This transcript has been edited for clarity
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to the Public’s Radio.
Stefan Pryor: Thank you, Ian.
Donnis: We know how lots of money has been allocated for new housing in Rhode Island, but it seems as if relatively little new construction is taking place. Is this money getting out and being put to use quickly enough?
Pryor: It is, and I’m glad you’re asking that. 1600 units have been financed out of the federal monies that have already been through the competitive process with developers who are ready to go and already 407 units are under construction. That’s 26 percent already getting built. Now, we know that we need to go from hundreds getting built to thousands and beyond, and we’ve got to move rapidly and it’s happening. Thankfully, there’s a team at Rhode Island Housing working with the team at the housing department that’s working hand in hand with developers. We’re even creating a new subsidiary of Rhode Island Housing that will be involved with what we call proactive development, really navigating the process with developers to help them move even faster. So stay tuned for more on that. And we’re doing new rounds of funding allocation. We actually had a meeting this morning at Rhode Island Housing where we allocated some more money, and looking forward to May and perhaps June, we’re going to allocate millions more dollars to ensure that we’re getting more units going.
Donnis: A goal has been cited of creating 24,000 new units as the number that’s really needed to put the state in a better position as far as housing. How long will it take to create that amount?
Pryor: That’s not an amount that we’re pinning ourselves on. I will tell you that it takes a while to build housing. It takes a while to build housing. One of the things to keep in mind is that even if we had all of the towns in Rhode Island meet its mandate of 10 percent affordable housing, as a lower threshold for how much housing we need, statewide it would be over 8,000 units that would need to be created and keep in mind, Ian, that it takesa hundred fifty thousand dollars, two hundred thousand, some would estimate three hundred thousand in subsidy per unit to produce that kind of housing. So a couple things to take away from that. First of all, the price tag is significant over the many years going forward. Fortunately, Governor McKee has stepped up, like really no generation of leadership has in recent memory. We have a proposal for the largest housing dedicated bond in Rhode Island history, a hundred million dollars.
Donnis: Let me stop you there because we’ve got a lot of ground to cover. Advocates want to see that housing bond increased from one hundred million to one hundred fifty million dollars. Are you going to ask the governor to do that?
Pryor: I’m pleased that we have the very sizable bond proposal that we do have. The dialogue with the General Assembly and with advocates continues out of that. If we were to have a historically sized bond, one of my points is that would be generous and that would re-infuse these programs that are already working and getting projects into construction. I’m also pointing out, as everyone would say, including Governor McKee, it’s not the end point. It’s not enough.
We’ve got to do more. And it’s not just about money, Ian. It is about generating more money and dedicating it to housing to carry out more affordable housing production. Affordable housing requires tax credits or subsidies or a combination in order to write down those rents, in order to write down those costs. But it also is necessary that we activate the housing market in ways that don’t necessarily cost money, but in a way that makes sure that our local planning and zoning and permitting processes are moving more efficiently, less of a zigzag process, that we’re getting more housing production at every income level at every price point built.
Donnis: Well speaking of that, you’re seeing pushback from local communities, and this is not unique to Rhode Island and Massachusetts is experiencing the same issue, but we see pushback from Narragansett, even East Providence, a community that has been more welcoming to new housing. Are you frustrated by that level of pushback and what will be necessary to overcome it?
Pryor: Well, of course I’m frustrated. I’m also not surprised. We all know, you know, Ian, that there is some resistance. There’s some reluctance. Some of that is based in some mythology that has developed that we just haven’t disabused everyone of. That we just haven’t proven the opposite of. What do I mean? That school expenses are going to automatically go up if we build housing for families and that the taxes will not be equal to those expenses. Well, in fact, if you do the math in some of our communities where there’s declining enrollment right here in Rhode Island, in these communities, the taxes may eclipse the expenses on a per pupil basis for new students who may be added to the school system. So one of the things our housing department is gearing up to do is have these conversations with municipalities equipped with the math and we’re branching out right now. We’re having 39 conversations in 39 places. We actually were just in East Providence. We were recently in Smithfield. We’re all over the state having conversations about what would it take to help you produce the kinds of housing that you do desire, that you do think you need in your city or town.
Donnis: Beyond those conversations, are other carrots and sticks necessary to encourage communities to welcome more new housing?
Pryor: I do think so, and Ian, there are some models in the country for it. I’m not saying that any one of them is a perfect match for Rhode Island, but in Colorado and in New York, they’re doing something new, which is that they’re helping municipalities set goals. And municipalities, if they opt in and set such goals, are eligible for increased millions, even tens of millions of dollars of funding for the purpose of infrastructure at the municipal level, other kinds of subsidies and investments for housing purposes. So in New York, in the downstate, the area that’s proximate to the big city, you are required to have 1 percent growth per year over three years. Upstate, where you’re less close to the infrastructure, etc., it’s a smaller percentage per year that’s required. You can actually accomplish the same in three years. It’s that kind of thing. And in Colorado, they’re setting a base number and they’re having increments of growth and they’re tying funding to it. So I think that we’re having these conversations first, first Ian. We’re not settling in on a particular method, but we are doing, we’re listening to municipalities. What do they want to accomplish? Would resources help them? And could they help to set the goals that would set us on the right path?
Donnis: My colleague Nina Sparling recently reported on how federal COVID aid enabled the state to more than double the number of shelter beds since 2020, and how advocates are concerned with that money drying up the state lacks a concrete plan for compensating for that funding. Does the state have a plan?
Pryor: It does. The state is very vigorously involved with the conversation around what new funding can be found for this purpose. Governor McKee, to his credit, has been working, really for months, on whether there may be funds that can be cobbled together from unspent COVID era funding pools, whether there can be short term solutions on that basis, whether there can be longer term investments, more durable investments of funding for the purpose of homelessness. So please stay tuned. But the governor is working on some resource solutions.
Donnis: What do you say to the criticism that your department, the Department of Housing, and the state’s long standing Rhode Island Housing Agency are duplicative agencies that are battling and covering the same turf?
Pryor: Actually, on the contrary, we’re working together. In a way, the state as a government and the quasi public agency, Rhode Island Housing, better than ever before. Governor McKee and the Senate were very wise to nominate in this particular case yours truly, but the secretary to become the chair, the secretary of the department, to be the chair of Rhode Island Housing, so I do hold both roles and help to synchronize. That doesn’t mean everything is done in a lockstep manner. It means that there can be healthy debate and there can be different functions based upon a divide and conquer approach. But I think we’re working together better than ever.
Donnis: You’ve been part of state government for a long time, serving first under former Governor Raimondo, so I’ve got to ask you about the Washington Bridge. This is not your portfolio, but this is obviously a huge issue for Rhode Island. Patrick Anderson in the Providence Journal reported this week on how there were warning signs almost 10 years ago about problems with the bridge, and those were mostly put to the side. What do you say to Rhode Islanders who believe that this raises serious questions about the competence of state government?
Pryor: Well, I’m not going to weigh in on that particular issue, the issue of the bridge itself, just because it really is way outside of what I do and what I’m charged with. I will say this, I do think that Rhode Island has some problems that have been accumulated over decades. This is not the only aspect of the question of this particular bridge, the Washington Bridge. But I will say that speaking of bridges and infrastructure in Rhode Island, we’ve allowed decades to go by with under investment. I give credit to Governor Raimondo and Governor Mckee for stepping up with the Rhode Works program with COVID-era further investments and making sure that we are remedying our problems and the same thing applies to housing. We’ve allowed for decades for our funding levels to erode so that the rest of the New England region, with the exception of New Hampshire, which is a different story. Everyone has been out spending us on housing, exercising more leadership. But the positive thing is now there is leadership being applied and, sticking to my domain in housing, there’s never been more leadership on the issue from the governor to the speaker. Speaker Shekarchi has been exemplary. The same is true for the Senate president, Dominick Ruggiero. They’re stepping up legislation to fix this problem.
Donnis: Some advocates are backing a public developer model as a way of expanding the amount of housing. Where do things stand with that? Do you support that?
Pryor: We are studying it. We’re studying rigorously. So we’ve brought in the New York University center that’s responsible for real estate studies, and they, the Furman Center, are carrying out a study looking at models that are precedents. Montgomery County, Maryland is often cited, but there are also other universities, excuse me, other locations around the country that have carried out public developer style models. And there’s also other parts of the world, say Finland or Singapore, that have carried out social housing work. So we’re studying them and determining, Ian, number one, how do they work, do they work in general, and are their methods applicable or which elements might be applicable to Rhode Island. So when we see the results of that, we’ll be able to analyze even better.
Donnis: We’ve seen a couple of cases of egregious living conditions enforced by some property owners. Does that show that stronger tenant protections are required in Rhode Island?
Pryor: It might be the case. Yes, I do think so.
Donnis: Finally, the Superman building. I believe you’ve said that additional money is needed to bring that project to fruition. How much money? Where does that stand? And how would that affect the quantity of so-called affordable units?
Pryor: TBD on how much money. What we do know is that interest rates for all projects in the United States, and we certainly are no exception, they’re up and they’re warping these project budgets. So, one of the things that’s happened is that the federal government under President Biden has offered favorable rate financing for such projects, especially ones that are close to transit hubs. Even through USDOT, the United States Department of Transportation. So we’re in dialogue with them and with other federal agencies about whether better rates could be available for loaned dollars for projects like Superman. So we’re working with the project developer to see how much of the challenge could that heal.
Donnis: Rhode Island Housing Secretary Stefan Pryor, thank you very much for joining us.
Pryor: Thank you for having me, Ian.
Some benchmarks for children in Rhode Island are positive, like the high rate of insurance coverage. But the state child-welfare agency, the Department of Children, Youths and Families, has been making a growing number of disclosures about the deaths and near-deaths of young children. A coalition says these figures underscore the need for action. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used be known as Twitter at IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Cortney Nicolato became president and CEO of United Way of Rhode Island in 2018. It was a homecoming for the Pawtucket native and URI grad who had worked in the nonprofit sector in Texas for the previous 13 years. Nicolato took the helm of one of Rhode Island’s top nonprofits in the run-up to the pandemic. She helped introduce 401Gives, now Rhode Island’s largest philanthropic effort, which this year raised more than $3.7 million for almost 600 different organizations. Nicolato has also emerged as a leading advocate for confronting the state’s housing crisis. But what will it take to build a stronger economy in Rhode Island and to make more progress on other key issues? This week, political reporter Ian Donnis goes in-depth with United Way of Rhode Island President/CEO Cortney Nicolato.
Courtney Nicolato is president and CEO of nonprofit United Way of Rhode Island. Credit: James Baumgartner/The Public’s RadioTranscript:Donnis: For people who are unfamiliar with the work of the United Way of Rhode Island, how would you describe what your agency does?
Nicolato: You know, we are really here to make systemic change in the community and in the critical areas that are facing our state. So housing is one of the most critical areas and the way that we look at our work is one we hear directly from Rhode Islanders. So we run the 211 call center, the hotline, which takes about 190,000 connections with Rhode Islanders every year. That insight tells us where there are gaps in the community, what needs to be addressed. We also are very, grateful to work with donors to put in investment dollars into the community based on what we’ve learned from the data. And then we work with our policy and our elected officials to look at policy changes that can help drive change. And so specifically in the areas we work in as housing, economic mobility, workforce development, and education, and something, and strong nonprofits, which is the other area that we’re really focused on.
Donnis: You started at the United Way in 2018 and your agency came out with some information more recently that more than half of Rhode Island nonprofits say there’s a higher level of community now than during the pandemic. Why is that?
Nicolato: You know, we felt the same way when we hear from Rhode Islanders directly. And so each year we do a survey with nonprofit community to understand what those needs are, and what we’re hearing is I think what all of us know. The cost of inflation continues to rise. The cost of at the supermarket, the cost of putting gas in our cars, folks who are finding themselves in crisis for the first time ever because of the cost. We’re finding a lot more working poor so folks who, and I just had recently had a situation where a woman was, works for 18 years at the same, has a great job, single mom finding herself homeless for the first time ever. And so, we are hearing directly that our nonprofit community is seeing that influx. The other thing that we’re hearing is that many nonprofits were providing services during the pandemic, and now those dollars have gone away, right, as a result of COVID relief dollars, but the need hasn’t changed. And nonprofits are trying to figure out a way to make it continue to work
Donnis: To pick up on what you’re saying, a stronger economy would help reduce the level of social need in Rhode Island. We’ve seen how the state has wrestled with this for many years, even though unemployment is very low right now. It was 40 years ago when the greenhouse compact was voted down with the idea of creating more high wage jobs. What do you think needs to be done differently to create a more vibrant economy in Rhode Island?
Nicolato: You know, I think one of the things that Rhode Island, I think is a must is we have to focus on the long term solutions, not the short term, and I think oftentimes that’s a challenge, and housing is a prime example of that. Housing has a direct correlation to our state’s ability to be able to build jobs, bring companies into the state, helps drive, educational outcomes when kids have a stable and affordable place to lay their head. We have a production issue. We have an inventory problem. But we also have one of the oldest housing stocks in the country. And so in order to move the economy forward, we have to look at those core components of it, what it takes to be a thriving economy, housing and education are really, in my opinion, the top two on the list. We can’t just pivot slightly, small, in ways that what we really have to say is, “what is the big change that we need to make to move the needle forward?” In education, I think that it’s really important for us to look at the infrastructure to which our education system is been and has been. Is there a need for us to change and modernize systems? I think also, you know, ensuring that our kids have access to, you know, the resources above and beyond, I think, what’s the core curriculum in K-12 is another area. And so long term systemic solutions, not small pivots.
Donnis: As you just said, we’ve heard how you’ve become a leading advocate for the housing issue. There’s consensus that this is a top issue for Rhode Island. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been allocated, but progress is slow. It takes time to build housing, there’s pushback from some cities and towns. What are your takeaways based on your observation of this issue of the last couple of years about what, you know, beyond staying at the issue, what else needs to happen to make more progress?
Nicolato: I think all of us have to realize that we have a role to play. I think this idea of like “not in my backyard” is not the answer. I think the idea of, you know, “well the density is what the density” is not the answer. I think we all have to look at creative solutions. I think the dollars and the investments are being made and that’s super important, but we also have to make sure that things like enabling zoning regulations are more flexible, ways that we can use, you know, things that are already built, like, old former schools, former churches, and making those into housing, and understanding that the system and how housing production is done isn’t always attractive to developers here in the state of Rhode Island. And so how do we combat those, find those places and spaces, and eradicate those barriers so that folks do see Rhode Island as an appealing place to build? Right now it’s not. And I think, you know, what happened earlier this week around East Providence, those 144 units that is being slated by and worked on very, very, I think, intelligently and intentionally by ONE Neighborhood Builders, Foster Forward, and many of the organizations, Crossroads and others. Those are a prime example of a great use of space, right? Take a space that is abandoned, repurpose it, offer wraparound services, and have the ability to really move the needle. That’s 144 units. The cities have to also play in that and support that. And I’m really, I was really upset to see that’s not the case right now in East Providence.
Donnis: You mentioned the importance of schools a little bit earlier, and we’ve seen how there’s been a consensus that schools are vital for Rhode Island’s economy. Despite that, there’s been little progress over 20 years. We all know about the problem with the Washington Bridge now that exemplifies issues with infrastructure. For Rhode Islanders who are cynical about the level of capacity and ability of the state to get things done, what do you say?
Nicolato: You know, I am a native Rhode Islander. I grew up in Rhode Island, but I spent about 13 years outside of the state and in Dallas, Texas, and my kids are native Texans, went to school in Texas, and there was an interesting observation that I had. Their one school district, which was an independent school district away from cities and towns, it was its own voted on, You paid a separate tax on it, they had 150,000 students in one school district. And I think that we have to look at the infrastructure. Am I saying one would work in Rhode Island? Absolutely not. I don’t think that that would be the case, but I do think that there’s operate, you know, opportunities to do, you know, consolidation of back office operations, opportunities to collaborate in a different way. I think our education system, and the numbers continue to prove that the model needs work. And I think that That’s systemic, right? That we got to look at the structural issues, but we also have to look at the curriculum. And I think we work hard every day at United Way to find places and spaces that we can help kids, introduce them to opportunities in the state, help them grow and learn, help them improve social emotional learning throughout of school time programs, but also making sure that families have the resources that they need, and that includes working very directly with school systems.
Donnis: We’re talking with Courtney Nicolato, president/CEO of the United Way of Rhode Island. Your agency launched a program in 2021 to reduce the racial inequities that have affected Rhode Islanders of color for generations. Bring us up to speed with what’s happening on that and what kind of benchmarks will be used to assess the progress of that effort.
Nicolato: Yeah, we launched Live United 2025 in January of 2021, really focused on how do we build racial equity and opportunities for all Rhode Islanders. And specifically, we looked at four different areas of focus, that we saw areas of opportunity for the state of Rhode Island. One was around early childhood literacy and education, access to out of school time learning. Our focus has been improving access to out of school time learning and summer learning programs. We host five different summer learning sites across the state. We work with five cities and towns. They are free summer learning programs to 600 families. And so these are the types of initiatives that we do with the investments that we receive from donors throughout the state. The other thing that we’re focused on is workforce development, but also upskilling. And we know that there’s an opportunity to really build racial equity when certifications and other opportunities are available. But we know that many Rhode Islanders cannot complete certifications because of various different barriers, you know. Sometimes it’s a suit. Sometimes it’s access to a computer. Sometimes it’s utility assistance for that month that they need to, not do their second job so that they can get the additional certification. And so we work with the Office of the Postsecondary Commissioner, and we’ve seen incredible improvements in completion of certification programs from 29% before we started the program to 89%. So those are the types of things, as we look about building racial equity, that we’re really laser focused on. Whatever we do, we measure. And that’s really critically important to us. We don’t want to just say we did it or we put X amount of millions of dollars to it, that we really have made demonstrable change. I would say COVID in some areas has not been helpful, right? And early childhood literacy is a great example of that. We were hoping it’d increase by 25%. You know, the competency for kids at third grade, their reading levels, we have not seen that increase. And a lot has to do with COVID and, you know, learning styles of kids. And so we’re always consistently looking at ways. How do we pivot? How do we make sure that the programs and investments that we’re making are really moving the needle for Rhode Island families? And I’m excited.
The other area that we’ve been focused on is nonprofit organizations. When I got back to Rhode Island in 2018, I saw that 30% of Rhode Island nonprofits had less than three months of cash reserve. As a business woman, I was like, “Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, this is a problem. This is not, we need to really bolster the operational bench strength of Rhode Island nonprofits.” And so we created 401Gives as an opportunity to create and really drive digital giving in the community and build a culture of philanthropy. And then earlier this year in January, we launched The Alliance for Nonprofit Impact, which in essence is like a technical assistance hub for Rhode Island nonprofits, which in the short amount of time, we already have 220 Rhode Island nonprofits who are leaning into that, that tool as a great resource to help them build their business needs.
Donnis: You are seen as someone who might have a future in politics. What is your thought on that and whether we might see you pursue that at any time in the near future?
Nicolato: You know, I love where I’m at right now. You know, United Way turns 100 in January of 2026. You only turn 100 once, and it’s kind of fun. I’m looking forward to actually doing a 100th anniversary celebration. I get asked many times from folks saying, you know, we really need your voice in elected office. And maybe one day, that would happen. Right now, I’m really having fun at United Way, and I look for, and I love working with our elected officials to really move the needle on these critical issues. But I never say never.
Donnis: President, CEO of the United Way of Rhode Island, Courtney Nicolado. Thank you so much for joining us.
Nicolato: It’s great to be here, Ian. Thanks so much.
Donnis: Political rhetoric toward immigrants has become more hostile over the years, yet immigrants play a key role in spurring economic innovation. And here in Rhode Island, the growth of the Latino community in recent decades may have enabled the state to keep two congressional seats. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 p.m. this afternoon on what used be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org. That’s our show. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
Stewart is one of a number of progressive lawmakers who have joined the legislature over the last decade, moving the General Assembly a bit more to the left. But Rhode Island still faces familiar challenges in building a stronger economy and improving public schools. What will it take to make more progress? And do progressive lawmakers have the vision to make it happen? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in-depth with State Representative Jennifer Stewart.
TRANSCRIPTThis transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Donnis: You won election in 2022 running on the idea that state lawmakers should do more to help everyday Rhode Islanders with issues like housing and health care. We see how it’s difficult to move forward on housing. There’s pushback from cities and towns. It takes time to build housing. So I wonder what your experience has been trying to make change in the general assembly on some of the issues that you championed.
Stewart: Thank you for that question. There’s some interesting things I’ve noticed. The first is that progress is being made, with respect, especially to facilitating the building of new housing. For example, the package of bills that was passed last session 2023 and the bills that are being put forward under the speaker’s leadership this year all facilitate, I think, what should be the result of, of more housing coming online at some point. I guess the issue is the some point aspect of that. And so some progress is being made. I’m, along with many Rhode Islanders, are anxious to see that housing come online. I think it’ll take a few to several years before that happens. And I think in the meantime, we also need to prioritize where we can make more immediate impact for folks. And that would be with respect to the existing rental market.
Donnis: Another key issue in Rhode Island is the state’s underperforming public schools. There’s been talk about this for decades. Your day job is as a teacher at the Moses Brown School. I wonder what your perspective is on what should be done differently to improve public education in the state?
Stewart: Well, I’m interested in learning about two areas that I’ve heard many of my colleagues focus on for improving schools. One is changing the funding formula in order to better resource our public schools. And the other is a right to an education in the state constitution as leverage to try to ensure well performing schools that do well by our students.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears and talk about the Washington Bridge, which remains a big issue in the state clearly. Governor McKee’s administration announced this week that it’s going to take more time than expected to complete a forensic audit explaining what went wrong with the westbound Washington Bridge. I wonder, are you satisfied with Governor McKee’s handling of this crisis?
Stewart: Well, I don’t know if I would say I’m satisfied with it. I, along with most Rhode Islanders, want to learn as quickly and as clearly as possible where the mistakes have been and what’s, what’s the plan moving forward? I think there’s a lot to still be done on those fronts, for sure.
Donnis: You’ve been an advocate of more funding for RIPTA.
Stewart: Yes.
Donnis: We see how RIPTA has struggled for adequate funding throughout virtually all of its existence. What will it take to create a more sustainable funding stream for RIPTA?
Stewart: You know, I think it’s gonna take many of us joining up to press for that funding in the budget process. I think there’s a broad concern and focus on that in the House and in the Senate. And I think we just need to keep making the case and Rhode Islanders need to keep pressing us and pressing leadership.
Donnis: Your counterparts in the State Senate earlier this year passed an updated version of the Law Enforcement Officers Bill of Rights. That legislation seems to have stalled in the House where there’s more disagreement about which course it should take. Are you optimistic that a bill that would improve LEOBOR will get passed this year by the House of Representatives.
Stewart: I’m not sure. I would like to think that something will happen, but I think, I don’t know if you were there for the caucus statement, or the Black Latino Indigenous AAPI caucus statement on what its members are looking for in the LEOBOR Reform. I’m hopeful that as long as there continues to be conversation, maybe something can happen.
Donnis: The budget is the most important issue addressed every year by state lawmakers. We’ve seen how Rhode Island’s budget continues to grow somewhat dramatically from where it was even five years ago. Do you think the state has the right spending priorities? Because after all, most of the money in the budget does go for social services and education issues that are close to your heart.
Stewart: I think it has many of the right priorities and I think at some point there’s a question about whether there’s sufficient revenue and whether revenue needs to be, further revenue needs to be raised.
Donnis: You have sponsored a bill to rename Victory Day as Peace and Remembrance Day. That has supporters and opponents. Critics say it would be a disservice to veterans. Supporters say it’s time to move on. Tell us about why you supported that bill.
Stewart: Oh, sure. It was a piece of legislation that I felt really strongly about. It was one that I formulated myself after getting elected and it really comes out of my experience being a history teacher, teaching Second World War related issues in history class, and feeling a kind of a strange disconnect when moving to Rhode Island, I learned about Victory Day. I think that the bill for me is really about acknowledging a fuller picture of that past and also acknowledging what our veterans were fighting for, which was peace, ultimately. And I think that it’s important to acknowledge that actually many veterans have been some of the most eloquent supporters of the bill in hearings. It’s been heard twice now in the House Committee on Special Legislation, and veterans have been part of that hearing and support. So, we still have Veterans Day, we still have Memorial Day. It’s not seeking to take something away from anyone, but to provide a fuller picture and also create a more inclusive Rhode Island.
Donnis: Some progressive elected officials in Rhode Island voted in the presidential primary this week for “uncommitted” as a way of protesting U.S. support for Israel’s war in Gaza. I wonder, would you be comfortable sharing whether you supported that?
Stewart: Well, yes, I would be comfortable sharing that, in this case, I did vote uncommitted.
Donnis: Any concern that this kind of splintering of support for President Biden will make it easier for Donald Trump to win his way back into the White House in November?
Stewart: I think there is a concern with respect to can you motivate, can the voters who Biden need, be motivated to turn out? I think, ultimately it’s a turnout question. And, I will support President Biden in the general election, for sure. And I think that the uncommitted vote in the primary is really about sounding an alarm to Biden that this is something that is going to create further problems in the general election if it isn’t tended to by his administration.
Donnis: You were one of two Rhode Island Political Cooperative candidates among 14 running for the Rhode Island house in 2022, who won election that year. Are you still aligned with the Rhode Island Political Cooperative?
Stewart: No, I’m not.
Donnis: Why is that?
Stewart: Well, I, they were especially helpful to me, as someone who never ran for office before, and with providing assistance for navigating that process. Now that I’m in the house and more familiar with the election process, I opted for more flexibility and being able to work on numerous issues and for collaboration.
Donnis: One of the issues of concern to you has been the fate of Morley Field in Pawtucket. Could you bring us up to speed with where that stands and what your top concern is about that?
Stewart: My top concern with Morley Field is whether community members who’d like to have the full park restored to active playing fields will actually be heard in the process of deciding its fate. Right now, Morley Field is, well, the city is going through paperwork with Rhode Island Department of Environmental Management and National Park Service in its application to convert part of the existing Morley field into a parking lot.
Donnis: Jennifer Stewart, state representative, a Democrat from Pawtucket. Thank you for joining us.
Stewart: Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciated it.
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Larry Lucchino died this week at age 78. He was part of the ownership group that helped end an 86-year World Series drought for the Red Sox. Lucchino helped nurture retro ballparks like Camden Yards in Baltimore and the updating of Fenway Park, with innovations like new seating on the Green Monster. But Lucchino’s legacy in Rhode Island is more complicated, since he played a role in relocating the PawSox to Worcester. You can read more about that in my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used be known as Twitter at IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org/tgif
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
Ken Block was surprised to get a phone call from an unfamiliar number one day after the 2020 election. It was a lawyer for Donald Trump’s campaign, and he wanted to know if Block would search for evidence of fraud in the election. Block ran as a third party candidate for governor in 2010 and as a Republican in 2014. But he’s also an expert in database technologies and data analytics — and that’s why the Trump campaign reached out to him. Block details his findings in a new book. So why has Trump not backed away from his lie about a stolen election? How can Americans move ahead when so many people disregard facts? And what needs to be done to strengthen the election process? This week, The Public’s Radio Political Reporter Ian Donnis goes in-depth with Ken Block, author of “Disproven: My Unbiased Search for Voter Fraud for the Trump Campaign, the Data that Shows Why He Lost, and How We Can Improve Our Elections.”
Transcript:This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Ken Block: Thanks for having me.
Donnis: I’ll start with a funny story. I read most of your book last week when I was on vacation and we’ve known each other for a long time, so I could actually hear your voice in my head while I was reading it. But I really enjoyed your book. It’s very informative and I think even people who are very familiar with politics can learn a lot by reading it. Your book lays out how the 2020 election was free from widespread fraud that would have tilted the outcome. You were hired by the Trump campaign to assess this. You told the Trump people about your findings and they did not question your findings. Nonetheless, Donald Trump has continued to double down on the fictitious idea that the 2020 election was stolen. What do you make of that?
Block: It’s the difference between information and proof that can survive legal scrutiny versus statements that are political in nature. So, Trump’s comments about voter fraud are strictly political. They have no hope of ever withstanding legal scrutiny or being capable of being submitted as viable evidence in court. Whereas, the purpose of my hiring and what my job was, was to identify evidence of substantial enough fraud to have changed the election result that would have stood up in court. And everything that Trump talks about, almost all the claims of fraud that you hear just out in the wild are all hearsay evidence or totally unsupported by facts, and so with that, what that means is there’s just no hope of it actually being able to overcome and overturn an election result.
Donnis: Part of your motivation in writing this book seems to be from your belief that facts really matter. You know, as John Adams famously said, “facts are stubborn things.” But you also point to how we live in a time when people’s view of the 2020 election stems on whether they pledge allegiance to Donald Trump or take a more factually based analysis of the situation.
If confirmation bias is such a big problem in our current moment, how do we move past that?
Block: The only way you can move past confirmation bias is with facts, and it’s one of the key reasons that I wrote the book the way that I wrote it. And the reason that I wrote the book at all, honestly, was to bring forward the facts as they pertain to what really happened in 2020, why the claims of fraud that were everywhere were fundamentally wrong, and to bring forward the very basic reason why President Trump lost the election. Had he kept the RINOs on board, he would still be President Trump. I’m sure of that. But because he rejected RINOs, he threw them out of his orbit and they left, that was the difference in states like Georgia and Arizona and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Nevada.
Donnis: What is your assessment of the percentage of voters in Rhode Island, Republican or otherwise, who believe Trump’s lie about the 2020 election?
Block: Yeah, well, they’re not alone. There are tens of millions who do, and they are overwhelmed by information in conservative media that reinforces the idea that there was massive fraud, and they’re not really being presented with facts that can contradict the narrative, the false narrative of voter fraud, and it’s a huge problem. I’ve struggled to get my message heard on almost any conservative media up to this point, and that is also itself a fallout from confirmation bias. Not only do the people who are listening to conservative media only seek out information that makes them feel better about their positions, conservative media on its own is kind of trapped because if they want to keep their viewership and listenership, they have to provide the information that their viewers want to hear.
Donnis: The forward to your book was written by Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger. He’s a Republican. Nonetheless, he and his family have faced death threats because they have not towed the line on Trump’s fake story about the 2020 election. He’s not alone. Other election workers in various states have faced threats. What do we do about this?
Block: I honestly think that things have calmed down a bit since the worst of it in 2020 and 2021. The consequences faced by the people who stormed the Capitol on January 6th and the aggressive prosecution of people who launch threats against public officials, I think have thrown a little bit of cold water on the whole idea that political violence is acceptable. It’s still there. I think it’s less likely than it was a year ago even, and hopefully will continue to settle down and get back to a place where we can all accept factual evidence on its face and not act out because it doesn’t line up with what your beliefs are.
Donnis: What was the most surprising thing you learned in the course of doing your study for the Trump administration and in writing your book?
Block: Well, honestly, it was the fact that there was a group of Trump attorneys who were professional, who did their due diligence, and who wanted me to perform a straight up assessment of the facts as they pertain to the role that voter fraud played. As we negotiated my contract, I made sure to tell the lawyer that I negotiated with that, in ten years of looking at voter data, I had never encountered anything close to what I knew the campaign needed me to find, and I wanted him to understand that I wasn’t promising him a specific result, but that if the fraud existed, I would find it and it would be found in a way that would stand up in court, but if I didn’t find it, I didn’t find it. And his response to that was, “That’s exactly what we want.” And I think that’s the most newsworthy element of the whole book, that there were Trump attorneys, more than one, who wanted to know the facts, who didn’t want to be associated with false claims in court, and they did the right thing. It was great.
Donnis: One of the major themes in your book is that although widespread fraud is not changing the course of US elections, there’s a lot of room for improvement in how elections are conducted. How would you sketch that out for us?
Block: I think there’s a couple of things that are surprising to a lot of people when I talk about this and the key one is we don’t have 50 different election systems, one for each state. We have 5,000 different election systems because in most bigger states, the conduct of elections is pushed down to the county level. And in states like New York State, there are 62 different election systems, one for each county, and they do things differently from each other. And that is a problem, depending on what the thing is that gets done differently. And my favorite example of this is the scenario where you vote early by mail, say two weeks before the election, but then you die before election day. And the basic question is, well, should your vote count or does it not count? And the answer is, it depends on where you live. So in some states, there are laws that say the vote counts. In other states, there are laws that say the vote doesn’t count, and in the rest of the states, there’s no law about it. And Rhode Island is one of those states that doesn’t have a law, but we count the vote. And counting that vote without a law that says you should count the vote is kind of problematic. And for those who are wondering, well, does it matter? In Michigan, a state that does not count the vote, in 2020, 3,500 votes cast by early voters who died before election day were canceled. And for me, it’s fundamentally unfair that the voter experience, in this case, a deceased voter, but that’s beside the point, that a voter’s experience could be that dramatically different from place to place. We need some additional federal guidelines on things like this, so that we iron out these differences, and in states where, like Rhode Island gives the voter data for $25, well, Alabama charges $37,000 for their data, and that’s ridiculous, right? Alabama doesn’t want you looking at their data, and there’s no guidelines that say what a reasonable amount of money that should be charged. And in Massachusetts, forget it. You can’t get their voter data.
Donnis: You make the point in your book that, if we were to start all over and use contemporary technology to draw up the election system, it would be totally different. But this complexity that you’re describing and the incredible variability seems to make it an enormous lift to change things, despite some proposals that you make that seem kind of grounded in common sense. Do you have any optimism given gridlock in Congress and the hyper partisanship of our age that we will see an effort to really improve elections along what you propose?
Block: So, the fact that HR 1 existed, that was an election reform bill that came out, I think two years ago. It never, I think it passed the house but didn’t pass the Senate or vice versa. I can’t remember which way. That was a compromise bill. It was a good bill. It didn’t go through, but the fact that it made it through one chamber is good. I’ve had Republican secretaries of state, I’ve had Democratic secretaries of state, as we discuss the book and the proposals, I can see where there’s tremendous overlap on both sides in terms of the proposals that I have. There is a compromise to be had. There are things that we can do. And honestly, it’s one of the most important things that we could do in our elections, is to modernize how we do it. Because really what we’re doing right now is what we did 200 years ago, except with some computer systems, some good, some bad, in the middle, and we deserve much better than that. And we can get there. I know Congress can’t agree on a lunch order right now, and that’s a problem, but I’m hopeful that if we can get everybody together and explain what needs to be done, explain how it’s good from a nonpartisan perspective, I’m hopeful that we can make some change.
Donnis: You twice ran for governor in Rhode Island. You remain a concerned citizen. You’ve been observing the state and its politics for some time. I wonder what you think about what is holding back the Republican Party here from being more competitive, and what you think should be done differently to foster a stronger economy here
Block: Those are two pretty, pretty broad questions.
Donnis: With about a minute and a half left.
Block: Solve world hunger in 30 seconds. You know, the Republican Party struggles here because the party itself has factions just like it does at the national level. There are very hard right conservatives here. There are middle of the road conservatives. They don’t necessarily like each other, they don’t see eye to eye, the party’s not cohesive. The Democratic Party has some of these similarities as well, but the Republicans are vastly outnumbered in this state. And, minus a big migration of conservative minded people here, I don’t see how that changes. From how we make our economy better, the General Assembly has to stop scaring the pants off of business. And when bad bills come up that are hostile to business, business owners who aren’t here look at these proposals and say, “There’s no way I’m going to expose my company, my employees, my personal financial well being to the vagaries of a general assembly that could very easily pass a bill that could eviscerate businesses that are here.” It’s one of the biggest problems we have.
Donnis: All right. We’ll leave it there. Ken Block, author of “Disproven: My Unbiased Search for Voter Fraud for the Trump Campaign, the Data that Shows Why He Lost, and How We Can Improve Our Elections.” Thank you very much for joining us.
Block: Thank you.
—
The days when a smaller number of authoritative sources ruled the media are long gone. Many Americans now tend to seek our information sources that reinforce their own views, and the media spectrum has fractured into a profusion of choices in the internet age. To some, this marks an era of “media shards,” in which a half-dozen or so groups with similar views gather about the same information watercooler. But can Americans reach consensus given the fracturingh in the media landscape over the past 30 years? You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org/tgif
Under-performing schools and an underfunded pension plan pose persistent challenges in Providence. And now the capital city — along with East Providence — has been most hard-hit by fallout from the closing of the Washington Bridge. Providence is the business, political and cultural capital for the state. But it faces some of the same hurdles as other cities, including the question of how to maintain a vibrant downtown when more of the people who used to fill offices are now working remotely. After decades of talk about the importance of public education, is there a plan for improving Providence schools when the city regains control of them from the state in the next year or two? Is there a way to bring more fairness to how tax breaks get handed out to developers? And what’s wrong with letting people stroll with an open container when PVDFest returns downtown in September?
Transcript:This interview transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Mayor Brett Smiley: Thank you.
Donnis: Rhode Islanders are going to be dealing with, for years, with the aftermath of problems from the closing of the westbound Washington Bridge. Providence has been heavily impacted by this. Are you satisfied with the job performance on this issue of Governor Dan McKee and RIDOT Director Peter Alviti?
Smiley: I think there’s plenty of time to figure out, you know, who knew what, when. I am satisfied that from the moment we found out that there needed to be substantial work done, that everybody has been all hands on deck to try to get a solution as fast as possible and to get to work as fast as possible. And then there’ll be plenty of time for oversight and investigation.
Donnis: Isn’t this a huge failure of state government, considering how the state, the Raimondo administration back in 2015 announced an ambitious effort to assess and overhaul the state’s deficient bridges?
Smiley: You know, I think the huge failure of government would be if, God forbid, this bridge had collapsed and we had very serious injuries, and these things have happened around the country. And so while everyone is frustrated, and I certainly am as well, that we’ve been dealing with this already now for several months, hopefully we can all acknowledge that we avoided an actual catastrophe that could have cost someone their life.
Donnis: You testified at the Statehouse this week against what you called a loophole in state law that provides a tax break meant for low income housing to developers of luxury housing. We should mention that one of the beneficiaries of this has been Arnold Buff Chase, who is a financial supporter of The Public’s Radio. My question for you is whether the current approach is really a giveaway for affluent developers at the expense of mom and pop landlords.
Smiley: I think this is one of these examples that when the bill was written and for decades when it was used, it was used in the way it was intended, which was a benefit to affordable housing developers for preferential tax treatment and traditionally had been used in projects that were entirely affordable. And then a couple of private developers realized that they could qualify for this too without having to make the entire project affordable. So now we have private developers where, say, 20 percent of the units might be affordable, and yet 100 percent of the project receives this tax benefit. And so this loophole, as I call it, has been discovered and it needs to be closed. And so the city of Providence, under my leadership, has a proposal to do that. And I hope that the state legislature passes it this year.
Donnis: The first of two public hearings on the proposed sale of Charter Care, which includes Roger Williams Medical Center in Providence, is scheduled for next week. Roger Williams is a major employer and a big taxpayer in Providence. Do you support or oppose the proposed sale of Charter Care to Centurion Foundation out of Atlanta?
Smiley: Well, there’s been really serious concerns about the previous owner, the outgoing owner of Charter Care. And it’s not just that they’re a big employer and a major taxpayer. It’s critical to our state’s health infrastructure that we have those hospital beds, emergency room beds, detox beds available. And so I’m very interested in making sure that we have a good, responsible new owner. I have confidence in the process, both the Attorney General and the Department of Health, which is vetting that application. I’m not in a position to vet that application. We don’t have those resources and we aren’t tasked with that. But I will say it is critically important that Roger Williams stay open and continue to serve our community. And so I hope that everyone does their homework and if this is the right way to go, a responsible provider, that they get a chance to then go do the work and serve our community.
Donnis: If a non profit owner were to take control of Roger Williams would that affect the city’s tax revenue?
Smiley: Potentially. The current owner, which is for-profit, doesn’t actually pay taxes directly. They have a PILOT agreement, a payment in lieu of taxes agreement and we would work with a new non-profit owner about how to treat that PILOT agreement on a go forward basis.
Donnis: The city announced this week that PVD Fest will be moving back downtown in September. A lot of people are excited about that. People really seem to love PVD Fest. However, people will not be able to walk around as in the past under a previous mayoral administration with an open container. Do you think people are just too irresponsible to handle drinking, having a drink or two or three in public like that?
Smiley: I mean, the problem is, is that I think most people are responsible, but all it takes is one. That’s not, you know, I take public safety very seriously. We want everyone to have a safe, fun experience at PVD Fest. We also want to make sure that families and people of all ages can enjoy this festival. And so there’ll be, in this year’s PVD Fest, there’ll be plenty of places to get a drink and it’ll be easy to both enjoy and listen to the performances while enjoying an adult beverage, if that’s what you’re here to do. But you’ll have to finish that drink at the location where you are before you move on to your next stop.
Donnis: The return to local control of the Providence schools is still off in the future. What is your plan after decades of talk about the need for better student performance to ensure that when local control does return, that the schools are on the track for improvement?
Smiley: Yeah, so the state turnaround effort has not yet yielded the results that I think many of us had hoped for, but that doesn’t mean that the plan that went into it wasn’t a good one. And so there’s a thing called the turnaround plan, the TAP, and in that TAP are a couple dozen metrics for how we measure student progress. And so what we’re doing in the process of planning to take the schools back into local control, which is I believe where they belong, is we’re taking that list of, say, 30 and getting it down to a much shorter list that’s comprehensible, that’s easy to track and easy to focus the community’s attention on. We know there’s a couple metrics that matter. We know our third graders need to be reading at grade level by third grade. We know that high school graduation rates, FAFSA completion rates and SAT completion rates matter. They’re indicators for future success. So we’re gonna be circulating with the community a list of these metrics that we’re gonna be marching and that’s when we’ll decide it’s time to take the schools back.
Donnis: The city last week sent a cease and desist order to a prominent scrap metal operator, Rhode Island Recycled Metals for doing business without a license. Some people consider these businesses along Allen’s Avenue a real eyesore, although scrap is a big business in Rhode Island. Do you have a different vision for that area of the sort that was floated by Buddy Cianci during his last run for mayor in 2014?
Smiley: Yeah, so I think the fact that we have a deep water port is an incredible economic asset and should be used to its fullest. And so there are still great opportunities in water dependent uses, including but not limited to the offshore wind industry, that will create good jobs, that will help us meet our climate challenges, and that add more economic value than, for example, this scrapyard that we’ve just sent the cease and desist order to. And so I don’t support some of the old plans that showed either casinos or hotels on the waterfront. I do think we should be taking advantage of the economic asset, which is that port and that channel. But I’m looking for a higher, better use than what we see in some of these vacant or polluting sites.
Donnis: Do you support or oppose putting a RIPTA transit hub on former I 195 land?
Smiley: I think it’s the best site, so I do support it. Now there are several conditions, including the Federal Transit Agency has a series of studies that have to happen. And so, those things have to happen, and it has to prove that those reports come back positively. I won’t be doing that work. That’s RIPTA’s job to do but having been actively involved in this bus hub discussion for years, including back when I worked at the state house, I’ve seen many of the options and looked in great detail personally at the work on many of the options. And I think this is the best option we’ve seen yet.
Donnis: What is the status of the proposal to revitalize the so called Superman building?
Smiley: It’s moving forward slowly. There is work going on there, which is great. And I can see it right out my window. I have eyewitness accounts of people doing demolition. They’re doing remediation. There’s asbestos and things like that in that building, as you would expect. So they are working, which is excellent. There’s some scaffolding up. There’s dumpsters that get taken away. They still have a financial shortfall because of everything that we know has happened in the economy. Increased interest rates, increased construction costs. And so I know we’re working closely with them. I know they’re still talking to the state. And so we’re not full speed ahead yet. But we’re also making small incremental progress, and I’m entirely committed to seeing that project get done. The Superman building is important, not just for the building itself, because if that building stays vacant for another decade, it has the potential to have a very negative consequence on every other building around it. So it’s not just about the Superman building, it’s about making sure that building doesn’t become an anchor on the rest of downtown and drags us all underwater. And so I remain totally committed to it, and the city is very interested in being a part of the solution to see that thing move forward.
Donnis: How about the Cranston Street Armory, is anything happening there?
Smiley: So I think as people know right now, we’re filming a movie there, which is great anda productive use. And then we’ve continued to be working with the state on a long term solution and have recently started talking to the state about some short term solutions after the movie wraps up where we would like the ability to actually do some programming there to get the community to be able to use the space. Some, you know, pop ups, sports activities and other things to really continue to keep that site active and contributing to the neighborhood while we look for a long term solution.
Donnis: You’re not just the mayor of Providence. You’re also a staunch Democrat. So I’ve got a question for you about national politics. There was a news report this week that Democrats’ long time advantage with Black and Latino voters is at its lowest point in 60 years. Providence is mostly made up of people of color. What’s your explanation for that? And what do you think Democrats need to do differently?
Smiley: You know, I think now that basically the primaries are behind us, there’s still some voting left to happen, but we know who our nominees are. And I think President Biden, who I’m proud to support, has an incredible track record of accomplishments, and he’s also running against someone who is very bad for people of color in this city, in this state, and in this country. And so now that the nominees have been set and the campaign will come into contrast, I think you’ll start to see support rally for President Biden as it’s both an opportunity to talk about the things that he’s accomplished, but also to contrast against the alternative and the alternative is very bad for the future of our country.
Donnis: If, as you say, Donald Trump is bad for people of color, why have we seen support ticking up for Republicans among Latino and other people of color?
Smiley: I don’t, I can’t answer that specifically other than to say that I’m optimistic in the next however many months between now and November that we as Democrats will be able to make the case to communities of color that the Democrats’ proposal and President Biden’s track record and plans for the future are in their best interest and are worthy of their vote in November.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. The Mayor of Providence, Brett Smiley, thank you very much for joining us.
Smiley: Thank you very much.
Next week marks the 10th anniversary of when state and federal investigators swarmed through the speaker’s office at the Rhode Island Statehouse. The raid signaled the fall of Gordon Fox, who had climbed from the hardscrabble streets of Mount Hope to win what some call the most powerful political office in Rhode Island. Fox served about three years in prison after being convicted of bribery, wire fraud and tax evasion. His precipitous fall set off a scramble to succeed him and set the state on its current path. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
The military career of Middletown native Michael Flynn hit a high point when he was named as Donald Trump’s national security adviser in 2016. But Flynn resigned after being in the role for just a few weeks, and he’s better known now as a leader of Christian nationalist movement. The Christian right embraces Trump, and according to Politico, an influential think tank plans to infuse Christian nationalist ideas in the White House if Trump wins in November. What does this mean for democracy? Is the U.S. moving closer to a theocracy? And how did a high-ranking former military official become a conspiracy theorist and a central figure in this movement? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in-depth with a Providence-based reporter on the investigations team for The Associated Press, Michelle Smith.
Ian Donnis: Michelle, welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Michelle Smith: Thank you for having me.
Donnis: You started reporting on Michael Flynn after he was forced out as Donald Trump’s national security advisor in 2017. How did Flynn go from being a well credentialed figure at a high level in the military to become a leading figure of the Christian right?
Smith: Well, that’s, that’s a long story I guess. Flynn he grew up in Middletown and he is from a big Irish Catholic family. His mother Helen was very, very involved in politics on Aquidneck Island and Democratic politics. And Flynn’s family members and his friends told us about how Flynn learned at her knee to be involved in politics from a very young age. He was going to anti abortion rallies with Helen. And you can see echoes of that, I think, now in the work that he’s doing.
Donnis: When we talk about Christian nationalism, how would you define what that is?
Smith: So Christian nationalism it’s the idea that Christianity is, you know, the basis for our country, that this is a Christian nation and that true Americans are Christian that it’s an identity wrapped up, you know, it’s your nationality and your religion all kind of wrapped up together. And it’s a certain kind of Christianity. Evangelical Christianity is what this is associated with a lot, a conservative Christianity. And so we’re seeing that Flynn has many, many – he frequently speaks to large groups, he has this tour called the Re-awaken America Tour that is going strong and it’s really kind of example A of Christian nationalism in the U. S. because it’s bringing, it’s mixing together politics, far right politics with Christianity. When we went to one in upstate New York, Flynn invited people to be baptized after a day of political rhetoric. And at the end of the day, people were baptized there. So it’s just wrapping these things all up together. And kind of defining what it is to be an American and a Christian, like fusing them into one identity.
Donnis: Is there a fundamental conflict between Christian nationalism and small d democracy since Christian nationalism is elevating the role of religion in political life?
Smith: Well you know, the U. S. is Pluralistic democracy. We were founded on the idea of a separation of church and state. Roger Williams, here in Rhode Island came up with that, and so, to say that a certain religion is more American than others, or that Christians are more legitimate American than others, I think is – there’s a fundamental conflict there with what, you know, when you have separation of religion from the government, people who want to base our government, our civic institutions around their interpretation of the Bible that’s fundamentally in conflict with multi-religious, multi-ethnic, multi-racial society.
Donnis: Flynn has a fairly apocalyptic message about the future of the U. S. Let’s listen to a clip from your Frontline documentary of him responding when you asked about what he is fighting for.
That sounds kind of dire that we’re going to lose it. What is he talking about when he says that?
Smith: Well when you listen to his speeches he will say things like some of, you know, we’ve already lost, you know, some people are down in the chasm already, some Americans, we’ve lost them. He puts a lot of, he frames a lot of this in, he calls it a spiritual battle. That it’s a battle of good versus evil and the evil he is oftentimes referring to are fellow Americans who disagree with him about certain political questions. So in the America that he describes from the stage and in podcasts and interviews, there are, the left generally is an enemy in that spiritual battle, and he labels them communists, socialists, and really puts it in dire terms that they are putting this country at risk of falling as he puts it in the interview.
Donnis: Your reporting on Frontline described how Flynn is seen within the Christian nationalist movement as a martyr, a warrior and an evangelist. How much support nationally is there for the kind of message that he’s spreading?
Smith: Well, I think that polling has shown that there’s a large percentage of Americans who agree with him on at least some of the things that he talks about, about America being a Christian nation, about you know, that it was founded on Judeo-Christian values, is how he and his allies put it. And that, you know, we should get back to what the Bible says, their reading of the Bible of how America should be. So there is a large number of people who agree with that.
Donnis: What is Michael Flynn doing now? And what role, if any, is he playing in Donald Trump’s effort to retake the White House?
Smith: So Flynn is continuing on speaking all across the country. He’s doing podcasts. He’s about to release a movie that he made with some allies of his. And he has been continuing to make endorsements. In the film, we talk about how in 2022, he had endorsed 99 candidates and those endorsements continue. He is out there, you know, every few days, it seems, I see another candidate that he’s endorsing and that he’s building political power.
I recall that at one point his brother, Joe Flynn, who works closely with him, had said that they were at Mar a Lago and Donald Trump came over and started comparing the endorsements that Trump had made with the endorsements that Flynn had made to show whose endorsed candidates were more successful. Donald Trump is very aware of what Flynn is doing. You know, he’s often mentioned, Flynn is often mentioned as a possible person that Trump would bring into an administration if he was elected again.
Donnis: There’s talk about how if Trump wins in November, there will be certain Christian nationalist figures possibly in his administration. How would you describe what this election in November means for the Christian nationalist movement?
Smith: Well, I think there are many Christian nationalist leaders who have been focused very hard on getting Trump elected again and are looking forward to that so that they can enact their agenda. There’s been lots of really good reporting on those, the hopes and the dreams of these Christian nationalist leaders.
Donnis: John Kasich, the former Ohio governor is a Christian and he sent out an email this week, saying he’s increasingly concerned about, “how elected officials and candidates are using religion as a political weapon.” What have you seen as far as the response by other mainstream Christians to the rise of Christian nationalism?
Smith: There are many mainstream Christians who are very upset by what they see happening. Because for many reasons, one is they think that it represents a Christianity that they don’t believe themselves. They don’t see their own beliefs reflected in what people like Michael Flynn are saying. Also they see that there’s a threat to their freedom of religion. For example, Flynn once suggested that pastors should be talking from the pulpit about the constitution as much as they are about the Bible. And some Christians who I heard from about that felt that that was inappropriate because it’s putting the government injecting it into religion and telling pastors what they should be saying from the pulpit. So there’s a lot of concern and there are some organized efforts to push back against Flynn and others. There’s a group called Christians Against Christian Nationalism that is very active that is organizing against these kinds of efforts.
Donnis: Michael Flynn spoke in Cranston last year, and there was a relatively small turnout. Does that show that there’s relatively little support in Northeast states for his message?
Smith: Well, I don’t know about that. You know, when I went to see one of Flynn’s appearances, I saw him in upstate New York and it was very crowded and it was very energetic and there were people from all over there. I noticed that when Flynn’s releases his film that he’s releasing soon. One of the dates is going to be in Groton, Connecticut. One of the showings. So there’s definitely people here who support him and think that he is doing the right thing and fighting hard for what they believe in, their shared beliefs.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Michelle Smith, a Providence based reporter on the investigations team of the Associated Press. Thank you very much for joining us.
Smith: Thanks for having me.
Donnis: For years, Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha was a lonely voice in ringing an alarm about the healthcare and hospital landscape in the state. Now, other aspects of state government are getting involved. The Rhode Island Senate, for example, this week unveiled a huge package of bills meant to improve healthcare access and affordability. But these challenges took time to develop, so they will defy easy solutions. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
As it stands, the GOP holds just 14 of 113 seats in the General Assembly, and the last Republican to become governor was Don Carcieri back in 2006. Can the local GOP increase its appeal to Rhode Islanders? Do Republicans have a better approach for getting to the bottom of what went wrong with the bridge? And can they spell out what they would cut to restrain state spending? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with the Republican leader in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, Mike Chippendale of Foster.
TranscriptIan Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Mike Chippendale: Thanks for having me, Ian.
Donnis: The issue that the state has been obsessed with since December is clearly the Washington Bridge. What letter grade would you give to Governor McKee for his handling of the issue?
Chippendale: Oh, I don’t know if we have enough information to grade, his handling at this point. You know, obviously, extreme measures had to be taken when we all learned of this and, you know, what was done had to be done. How we got there is really where we are now. I will feel more comfortable grading, the governor or anyone else for that matter, once we learn exactly what’s going on, because we’re very much in the dark on how we got to where we are with that bridge.
Donnis: And more information about how things degraded from last summer to December is expected in the weeks ahead. If you were running the state, is there anything that you would’ve done differently on this issue up to now than Governor McKee?
Chippendale: Yeah, sure, certainly. I mean, you’ve heard it before and you’re gonna hear it again. The Inspector General is something that we’ve been promoting for a while, years, and in this particular case, had we an independent office of the Inspector General, I don’t believe we’d ever have gotten to the point where the bridge had to be shut down. But now that we are here, we have to follow everything where it goes. I am looking largely at the inspection process and the integrity of it, and hopefully we’ll figure out how to avoid this.
Donnis: The bridge is not the only political headwind currently for Governor McKee. He’s been on the receiving end of some unflattering headlines about the Pawtucket soccer arena. We’ve seen how the 27 million cost of creating that arena is going to translate into 132 million. It has to be paid back over 30 years. I wonder if the soccer arena combined with the bridge, is this going to combine into any kind of unified message or campaign for Republicans as they try to win more legislative seats this year.
Chippendale: There’s no question that they will. Each of them. One’s a failure of leadership. The other one, you know, he, with the governor casting the deciding vote, which pushed us over the slippery slope edge on this one. there will absolutely be campaign issues. There’s no question about it.
Donnis: Beyond that, what is the plan for trying to increase Republican ranks in the legislature and elections this year?
Chippendale: Yeah, I, I think we’re going to continue to work on the issues that people care about most, which right now we’re talking about taxes. We have healthcare as a major issue. We’re working very closely with the business community. But what we’re also doing is reminding Rhode Island voters that they have for a very long time been supporting a one party state, which is 100 percent majority in the general offices and the 87 percent majority in the legislature. And we’re going to tie it to things like the bridge. And we want people to think about that when they’re sitting in traffic. And we want people to think about that when they’re sitting in the emergency room, waiting at a 600 percent increased time just to be seen by a doctor. These are from the people you voted for. These are the people who are running the state. These are the people who have created the problems that you’re dealing with every single day. Maybe, just maybe you can put on your big boy pants and vote for a Republican once and see if it doesn’t kill you.
Donnis: You gave the Republican response to Governor McKee’s budget address last month. And one of your points was that Democrats in your view have not done enough to restrain spending. You say the next proposed budget should be more like 11 and a half billion dollars rather than the roughly $14 billion proposed by McKee. So what specifically would you cut to get the $14 billion budget down to about 11 and a half billion dollars?
Chippendale: So just to be clear, at first, the 11 is the baseline. We still have federal pass through monies that are in there, which will bump it up considerably closer to the 13 a half billion. And we’ve had this conversation here before. There’s no light switch. There’s nothing that we can just say. We’re gonna cut that and fix the problem. Rhode Island is like a cruise ship. It’s like an ocean liner. You can’t stop it on a dime. You can’t turn it on a dime. We did not get in this horrible fiscal condition overnight. We will not get out of this horrible fiscal position overnight. We have to change the way we do things. We have to change the things we focus on where we spend the monies, where we don’t spend the monies. That will be a slow process, but people have to first realize that what we’re doing now does not work.
Donnis: One of your other points was that the state’s energy policy is flawed in your view and that the goals in the Act on Climate are more idealistic than realistic. We see even in how non-coastal communities now, when there’s a heavy rainfall, storm drains can be overwhelmed. I see that in my home community of East Providence. Maybe you see that in your community of Foster. Given your concerns about the state’s energy policy, what is the approach right now for mitigating the effects of climate change?
Chippendale: So, first of all, I do not conflate, and I won’t allow it to be conflated, the two issues. Climate change versus our energy policy are two different things. I don’t want to hear about the, you know, climate denier stuff that folks automatically knee jerk to when they get criticized on their ridiculous proposals. The Act on Climate is not realistic, period. We have people right now in my district, throughout the entire state, who are seeing one, two, three, four, five hundred dollar increases per month in their electricity bills. With the Act on Climate as we passed it, we took out all of the guardrails where PUC and other entities could constrain these ridiculous prices that people just can’t afford.
Donnis: PUC is the Public Utilities Commission.
Chippendale: Yes, the Public Utilities Commission. We took away their power to put the brakes on reckless sourcing of power, which is what we’re doing. We’re telling the energy companies, you have to buy from these sources. And those sources are very expensive right now. There’s no way for them to not buy from them. So when people see their bills go up, they get angry at the PUC. Why don’t you stop it? PUC cannot stop it. We took any power away from them with the Act on Climate to do that. We’re going to try to right some of those wrongs, add a little bit of sanity into this. We’re not, we’re not going to gut the act on climate again. We’re going to be the adults in the room and we’re going to say, sometimes you can’t do things that are impossible. So we’re going to take a more measured approach. The bills, when they come out, I think anyone who looks at them seriously will realize that they aren’t gutting. They aren’t an about face or a 180. They’re just a realistic addition to an unrealistic bill.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears and talk a little bit about some national politics. It looks like the November presidential election could be between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. If that’s what it comes down to, would we be going out on a limb to suspect that you’ll be voting for Donald Trump?
Chippendale: No, I don’t think you’d be going on a limb at all. I mean, just look at where we are right now. I was having this conversation with someone the other day. You know, just five years ago, we had our accounts, our investment accounts were doing fantastic. We were in no wars. You know, prices on everything were down. Yes, we had a guy with a big mouth and who people, it’s easy to hate him and people can’t stand him and all that. Right now, we’re in wars. We’re witnessing a second genocide of Jews. We have seen unfettered illegal immigration into our nation. We have people being beaten to death, stabbed to death, raped, abused in the United States by people who are not here legally, and we have a president looking us in the face and telling us that our border is secure. There is no way in the world. A person with any ounce of sanity could continue to support a Biden presidency.
Donnis: Yeah, there’s a lot there to unpack, but let’s take a little bit of it. Donald Trump urged Republicans not to support a bipartisan compromise on immigration. So is it hypocritical for Republicans to complain about the situation at the Mexican border and at the same time vote against a bipartisan compromise meant to address the issue.
Chippendale: Donald Trump is talking to Republicans in the Senate and in the Congress. So, when you say Republicans, just because someone’s a Republican, he’s not speaking to, I don’t give a crap what Donald Trump tells the Senate and congressional Republicans to do. I don’t listen to Donald Trump. I’m doing what I have to do as a Republican here in the state of Rhode Island.
Donnis: Well, what about that point that there was a bipartisan effort to come to terms with the budget? I think a lot of people would say that it’s been a bipartisan failure of government to deal with immigration in a real way for, for decades. And here was a bipartisan proposal and the former president urged Republicans not to support it. Is that kind of not, does that not add up?
Chippendale: It doesn’t add up, but neither does it add up that there’s a proposal that’s been in the Senate that’s just been sitting there doing nothing. You know, I mean, this, the same gamesmanship goes back and forth. DC is the, is two sides of the same coin. They’re both playing games on both sides of the aisle.
Donnis: The Alabama Supreme Court recently ruled that frozen embryos should be considered children. That’s caused a lot of uncertainty about the use of IVF for couples trying to conceive children through that method. Do you think that court got that decision right?
Chippendale: I’m not an attorney, I certainly didn’t study the case in Alabama, and Alabama is the furthest thing from my mind.
Donnis: Republicans have been facing blowback in national elections since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Does that show that Republicans have been pushing too hard and too extreme a way on the abortion issue?
Chippendale: Abortion is a settled issue here in Rhode Island. I’m the House Minority Leader in the state of Rhode Island. There’s nothing left to talk about, about abortion in this state.
Donnis: Just to come back to Donald Trump. I think we could agree that Joe Biden is a relatively standard politician. He’s got his accomplishments and his shortcomings. Donald Trump is more of an outlier. He’s the only president to oppose the peaceful transition of power. He faces 91 felony charges. Try to unpack for us if you would why so many Republicans support Trump. In view of these blemishes on his record.
Chippendale: Well, I’ll push back just a little on that. Just look at the 16 and the 20 presidential map. Look at the state of Rhode Island and how it voted in towns like Johnston, North Providence. These are Democratic bastions all voted for Donald Trump. [North Providence preferred Joe Biden over Donald Trump, 56% to 42.3% in 2020, and Hillary Clinton over Trump, 54.4% to 38.9%, in 2016]. He doesn’t appeal to just Republicans. I think his appeal is to people who are sick and tired of politicians, mealy mouthed politicians who get on there and just swap power back and forth and play nice with each other. This was a guy who people sent down there in 2016 to knock furniture around and change the way things are done. And I think that’s the attraction to Donald Trump. I don’t think it necessarily belongs to a particular party. Go to Johnston. There hasn’t been a Republican elected in Johnston since like I think 1984 when I used to live there. But that town overwhelmingly supported Donald Trump twice and I guarantee you they will again. That is not a Republican or a Democrat thing. That is a people are sick and tired of politicians putting their hands in their back pockets while lying to their face.
Donnis: Let’s come back to Rhode Island for one final question. Republicans haven’t won the governor’s office since 2006. What’s the plan to try and retake the governor’s office in 2026?
Chippendale: Identify an outstanding candidate that can beat whoever the Democrats put forward. It’s really that simple. I don’t know who that candidate is, but hopefully there will be one.
Donnis: All right, the Republican leader in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, Mike Chippendale of Foster. Thank you very much for joining us.
Chippendale: Thanks for having me Ian.
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
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State employee pensions were once the third rail of Rhode Island politics. That changed in 2011, when Gina Raimondo, general treasurer at the time, spearheaded a pension overhaul. Raimondo shifted the equation by emphasizing how the pension had less than half of the money needed to meet its obligations. 13 years later, retirees remain angry about the overhaul and its effect during a time of high inflation. But it’s unclear if the General Assembly will do anything to address their complaints. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
The global scene is marked by violence and uncertainty, with wars in Israel and Ukraine. Closer to home, many Americans are dissatisfied with their choices amid a likely showdown between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump. Congress remains sharply divided, and paralysis prevails on issues like immigration. Many Americans feel jittery about the economy, even with a soaring stock market and low unemployment. Can politicians make a positive difference on the issues that matter most? Is there a path for less suffering in Gaza and a more robust defense of Ukraine? And is 81-year-old Joe Biden the guy to lead America into the future? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with U.S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse.
TRANSCRIPT
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio. The New York Times reports that more than 29,000 people, many of them children, have been killed during Israel’s invasion of Gaza. Does Israel’s attempt to eliminate Hamas, which did initiate this conflict, justify this loss of life?
U.S. Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse: I don’t think so. I don’t see how it can. I do think that the key to focus on here is a broader peace plan for the Mideast. I just got back from Munich where we met with King Abdullah of Jordan, who’s in the center of that process, and he was quite optimistic about it working. Although I think there’s fairly wide consensus that Prime Minister Netanyahu is not.
Donnis: There’s a lot of international condemnation of Israel’s approach and the level of humanitarian suffering. Is Israel’s approach really contrary to its long term interests?
Sen. Whitehouse: I don’t know. I don’t know. I think that Netanyahu has proven to be a particularly difficult and challenging partner. There are conversations going on elsewhere in the Israeli government. They obviously have a really, really challenging problem with a sworn adversary that will use murder, rape, all sorts of forms of horrific violence every chance they can get, which used the last ceasefire to go and murder a bunch more Israelis and then take credit for it. So, I think they’re in a very difficult situation. I do think that some of the use of force and some of the use of munitions has definitely been excessive, but the path through this is to get to a framework that allows the Palestinians, the Israelis, and the surrounding Arab world some confidence that there is a peaceful future for them all.
Donnis: Russia made its biggest recent gain in the war in Ukraine when it recently won control of the town of Avdiivka. If congressional Republicans do not support more aid for Ukraine, what is the fallback for the White House?
Sen. Whitehouse: Well, one of our messages at the Munich security conference was that the fall of Avdiivka, the diminution in American munitions to the troops, the Ukrainian troops at the front, and the continuing quarrel and the nonsense noise out of Donald Trump all create a morale challenge for Ukraine and that it would be very, very helpful in this period before Congress acts to let them have some surprises that change the Russians smugness and affect their calculations. Including particularly longer range munitions that would let them reach the remaining naval bases in Crimea. Put the Kerch bridge, which is the main access point to Crimea for the Russians, and many of the bases that feel comfortably out of existing artillery range back into danger. And I think that needs to happen soon so that that morale counter message gets out there fast.
Donnis: We saw last year how despite billions in U. S. aid, Ukraine made very meager progress during a counter offensive. Does that show the limits of U. S. aid and that the situation is unlikely to change even with billions more?
Sen. Whitehouse: Yeah, no, I don’t think so. I think first of all, the U. S. aid has always been a little bit late. We were late with the javelins. We were late with the MANPADS, we were late with the tanks, we were late with the HIMARS, we were late with the ATACMS. We’re not even there yet with the F 16s. If all of that had been pushed forward six months, I think things would look different on the battlefield. The other thing is that while the line of contact has been relatively stable, if you look at the damage that the Ukrainians have done to the Russian military machine, this was the point Zelensky made in his meeting with us, it is brutal, the losses they’ve sustained, both in men and in armor. And the morale on the other side is terrible. He was asked about Ukrainian troops’ exhaustion. And he said, you have no idea how much worse the exhaustion is on the Russian side. So, they don’t have the munitions they need right now to put these other naval bases at risk. What they have done is they’ve pretty well controlled the airspace. Russians have never been able to get air dominance. And they have swept, without having a navy, the Ukrainians have swept the Russians out of the Black Sea. So, it’s not quite as static as you see when you just look at a line on a map. When you look at the larger context of the conflict, there are a lot of arenas in which Ukraine is really winning.
Donnis: Business Insider reported in 2022 that you held more than $15,000 in Lockheed Martin stock and more than $50,000 in United Technologies / Raytheon stock. Is there something wrong with you profiting from these holdings at a time when weapons made by these companies are being used in war?
Sen. Whitehouse: That’s pretty much news to me, I will tell you, because I have a rule with the people who manage my stock holdings that they don’t tell me what I have, and I find out about it for the first time when they get reported to the press. So I learn at the same time that you learn. So there’s no conflict there whatsoever. And, I would actually argue that there are American munitions being used in Ukraine in a really important battle for freedom. That it is very important to the rest of the free world that we win and, whose consequences, if Putin should succeed, are very, very dire.
Donnis: You referred to being in Germany last week for the Munich security conference that coincided with the news about the death of Alexei Navalny and Democrats say it’ll be a real disaster for the world if Donald Trump is elected president. We see how Trump is a historic outlier. He is the first president to ever challenge the peaceful transition of power. He faces all these criminal charges. Nonetheless, he remains the favorite of somewhere around a third to maybe a half of Americans. What does that show about the appeal of Democrats that Trump has not been disqualified in public opinion?
Sen. Whitehouse: Yeah, it’s a little surprising because in my view, Trump does something disqualifying virtually every day. I think that what we have seen pulling back to 30,000 feet is decades in which very powerful special interests have had undue influence in Congress and the American people have brought ideas like gun safety and fair taxes and climate action to Congress and just gotten rebuffed. They’ve seen communities suffer economically as jobs were run overseas by big American corporations. And so, I think there’s a lot of anger and frustration out there that Trump taps into. I think the key here is for Democrats and Republicans to restore a sense of real command of the voters over our democracy, rather than a command of the big special interests, the billionaires behind the super PACs, the whole kind of creepy, secretly funded political operation to which Congress too often dances.
Donnis: Donald Trump is 77 and President Biden is 81. Not a big gap in age, but it seems like President Biden’s age and appearance is a greater concern for more Americans. Is it a mistake for Democrats to pin their hopes on keeping the White House on President Biden?
Sen. Whitehouse: Well I think the fact of the matter is that he is going to be our candidate and the Republicans have done a very persistent job of trying to magnify any slip by the president and take little clips, and create a narrative that he’s incompetent when in fact he’s gotten 10 times as much accomplished as Donald Trump ever did. And the group, the team that he leads is very effective and is pointed in the direction of the American people and the American worker and American jobs and safety from climate and anti-corruption. And I think those are all the proper things to look at. and I’d frankly, I’ll take somebody who’s occasionally forgetful over someone who is vindictive and deranged, any day.
Donnis: If president Biden’s record is as good as you and other Democrats say, why are his approval ratings not better?
Sen. Whitehouse: Well, I think, first of all, a lot of this is takes a while to filter through. You know, you can – factory building, for instance, is exploding in the United States right now, but those factories aren’t producing goods yet and they’re not hiring factory workers yet because the factories are under construction. So there’s a lead time before the full economic benefit falls to the American consumer or the American worker. And we have to just be patient and persistent to make sure that. I think also we’re looking at grocery prices that are very, very high, and the Republicans have done a very good job of trying to blame that on President Biden, when in fact, most of it comes through a pandemic over which nobody had any control, supply chain problems that bedevil the entire world, climate problems that are driving all sorts of prices up from sugar to transit. Those aren’t exactly, you know, Biden problems. Those are things we all have to deal with.
Donnis: Our time is short. So I want to get in one more question. There’s been a Wall Street / Main Street divide on the economy for many years in America with a lot of economic insecurity still being felt by some Americans. Do Democrats have a real answer for that?
Sen. Whitehouse: Well, I think. You know, making the tax code fair, dealing with climate so that you don’t have a bunch of fossil fuel billionaires running our politics and causing enormous costs down to the American public. The International Monetary Fund estimates the costs and harm to the American public at 600 plus billion dollars a year. That’s a very, very high price. Some of it is in the pocketbook, some of it is in just lost resources. So, yeah, I think we’ve got a very robust plan to make sure that the value of the American economy is shared more broadly, and the people who work, enjoy the benefits of the economy as much as people who invest.
Donnis: You are welcoming your second grandchild, so we offer our congratulations, and thank you very much for joining us, U. S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse.
Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you.
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The last Friday in February used to be the time when more than a thousand Rhode Islanders fled to Swansea, Massachusetts, for a satirical send-up of the year in Ocean State news. The Providence Newspaper Guild Follies was scrapped after 2018 due to changing times and shrinking Guild membership. But as we political reporters say, Rhode Island is the gift that keeps giving, with a ceaseless stream of juicy stories. And we’ve got a winner for my annual contest for best Follies-style song. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and thepublicsradio.org/tgif.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Rhode Island Department of Transportation Director Peter Alviti faced four hours of questions during a legislative Oversight hearing earlier this week. But after it was over, some key questions remained unanswered — including how the westbound Washington Bridge passed an inspection last summer and is now considered so damaged that it may need to be replaced. More insight into what happened is expected when additional engineering information becomes available within the next few weeks. So for right now, did the Oversight hearing really accomplish anything? Is Alviti the right person to lead the response to the crisis involving the Washington Bridge? And do state lawmakers have the technical expertise to run an effective Oversight process? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with House Oversight Committee member state Representative June Speakman.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
June Speakman: Thanks, Ian. It’s great to be here.
Donnis: You were among more than two dozen lawmakers who took part in a joint oversight hearing Monday on the Washington Bridge. What was your top takeaway from that?
Speakman: Well, we have weekly briefings with the – East Bay legislators have weekly briefings with Director Alviti, which I can’t attend because I’m in class, but I get briefed by my colleagues. And so there wasn’t much new hard information for me at that briefing, it was good to hear the questions from the other senators and representatives. I still have more unanswered, unanswered questions than answered questions.
Donnis: Do state lawmakers who are not bridge engineers, after all, really have the technical expertise to run an effective oversight process on something like the Washington Bridge?
Speakman: I think you answered your own question. Of course not. No, it would have been helpful to have an engineer sitting right next to me to help me understand what I was seeing. I think you may have heard me ask a question about the inspections and the fact that they found pigeon debris. And why was that not removed? And it, you know, that’s not even a technical question, but it would have been helpful for me to have someone there to help me interpret the report.
Donnis: There’s a big spotlight right now on RIDOT director Peter Alviti. Do you support him continuing as director of RIDOT, or do you think it’s time for new leadership?
Speakman: Well, I think it’s time to get some real quick answers to what went wrong. It’s hard to know what responsibility he had. I liked representative Carson’s question about how do you manage seven different contracts and workers who appear not to be happy. That feels like a lot to manage. And I think we need a little bit more information to determine whether or not he is able to continue in his job.
Donnis: Right. And seven different contracts, that’s different agencies involved in looking at the bridge right now and what went wrong wrong with it. To me, one of the most noteworthy things was how director Alviti talked about the westbound bridge being built in 1968. It’s one of the main thoroughfares in the state. It carries about 100,000 people a day. And it was rated structurally deficient even before the emergency closing in December. Is it shocking to you that there was not more attention on scrutinizing the bridge before this problem developed in December?
Speakman: Yes, it is. And for me, the biggest question is the look back and what is the process used and why, how could something have become so deficient, so quickly or again without notice. I hear from constituents about these thousand year old bridges in Rome and how they seem to manage to survive. So the idea that a bridge that was built in 1968 when I was in high school, I’m not that old, should, should be ready to fall down really strikes me as that there’s something wrong even way back then.
Donnis: Representative Speakman, you are a resident of Warren in the East Bay. How have you and your constituents been affected by what’s going on with the Washington Bridge?
Speakman: Well, we hear a lot about difficult commutes to Providence, of course, and I have that myself when I go to the Statehouse. I’m lucky to work in Bristol at my other job, so I head the other way, but I hear all the time about the length of time it’s taking people to get to their jobs or to get to doctor’s appointments or other activities in Providence. And certainly one could imagine folks aren’t going to Providence to shop and to dine as much. I did speak to a restaurateur in Bristol who said his business went up immediately after the bridge closed because he thinks folks were staying home and not going into Providence. But that has since subsided. So I hear about it all the time for lots of different reasons.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears and talk about some other issues. You are the head of a special legislative commission studying housing affordability. Do you think the state is acting with enough urgency now to confront its housing crisis?
Speakman: Well, I certainly am. We’ve, I focus on it all the time. I have extended phone calls and meetings about it many times a week. It’s hard to be, to use the word urgent when you’re talking about constructing housing. It takes a very long time to put the financing together and a very long time, obviously, to get the shovels in the ground and the construction going. I’d like to see faster timetables in both the financing and the building. Again, I’m not an expert in either of those, but I take the words of the experts that we have to be a little bit patient in terms of getting that money out the door and getting it spent.
Donnis: You’re the house sponsor of a bill to make it easier to develop accessory dwelling units, sometimes called granny flats. Critics say that this could detract from neighborhoods by allowing ADUs on non owner occupied properties. Is that a valid criticism?
Speakman: No, it’s not, and I’m delighted that we passed the bill in the House on Wednesday, so I look forward to my Senate colleagues developing their version of that. In my view, ADUs are gentle density as we call it. I don’t think they’ll have a negative impact on neighborhoods at all. It’s like having a garage on your property. And again, it helps with seniors having housing, college students having housing. I really think it’s a wonderful addition. And again, it doesn’t require major apartment complexes or entire new neighborhoods. It’s just taking the neighborhoods that we have and adding a little bit more density to them.
Donnis: The accessory dwelling unit bill was the only one of 14 housing related bills backed by House Speaker Joe Shekarchi in a package last year. What will it take in your view to get the Senate, which did not support the ADU bill last year to support it this year?
Speakman: I know that senators did, as you mentioned, have concerns about the owner occupancy. We do not require that owners live in any other kind of dwelling in the state of Rhode Island. Right? Where who lives in your home is up to you, the owner of the home. And I do not want to burden ADUs with that. But it is important to understand that the neighborhood needs to be taken into account when you’re building these things. So I do hope that we can get, that the Senators can get comfortable with enabling legislation perhaps for ADUs, for owner occupancy. Let the municipalities decide if that’s something they want based on their market conditions. I know there are different concerns in coastal communities where you have lots of Airbnb issues. I understand that completely, so perhaps the community should be able to adjust that particular regulation to their own needs.
Donnis: We know a big part of Rhode Island’s housing crisis is that for many years, just very little new housing was built in the state beyond increasing production of new housing. What do you see as the keys to overcoming the housing crisis and creating more housing affordability?
Speakman: Well, we need to make sure that zoning codes are not overly restrictive and they have been, the United States has a history across the country of using zoning as a way to minimize multifamily homes, for example, which help people in middle and lower income brackets. And we need to make sure that the zoning is not overly restrictive, and that makes it impossible for denser housing.
Donnis: As a resident of Warren, you have a front row seat on what it’s like coping with climate change in a coastal community we see now with heavier rainfall, even non coastal communities are sometimes having their sewers and storm drains overwhelmed by the amount of rainfall. What needs to happen for the state to do a better job in coping with climate change?
Speakman: Well, it’s great news that the governor has a chief resiliency officer. She’s just getting started as does the city of Providence now, and it’ll be great to see what kind of planning they do. I’m very enthusiastic about representative Spears’ Act on Coast bill. I certainly hope that passes this year. That adds an element of planning, which we need to get to right away about coastal resiliency and rebuilding and where you should rebuild and where you shouldn’t. So I think that’s a really important move in the direction to address those issues.
Donnis: In your day job, you are a political science professor at Roger Williams University. You’ve been in the House of Representatives for a little more than four years now. What is your sense of how effective the legislature is in addressing issues of concern to Rhode Islanders?
Speakman: As a political scientist, I can tell you that what I’ve learned from my four years at the State House is very different from what you read in the state and local government textbooks. So, if I get the opportunity, I will rewrite that chapter in state and local government. It is much more, It’s much more difficult actually to get bills written and to get them passed. We’re a part time legislature. I didn’t realize how significant that was as a feature of legislatures. In the textbook it doesn’t really make mention of part time versus full time. But the fact that we’re a part time legislature makes it tremendously difficult. The workload is that of a full time legislature. And, we need to rely on advocates and staff to help us do our work. Thank goodness for them because they do help us with the work. But I have learned primarily that a part time legislature is a model that needs to be looked at. Let’s just say.
Donnis: In as much as you can, if you can take off your hat as a Democratic state representative and wear your hat as a professor of political science, how would you describe the stakes of the presidential election in the U.S. this year?
Speakman: Yeah, the stakes are very high. Obviously, my students tell me that they are deeply dissatisfied with both choices. And I have Republicans and Democrats and mostly unaffiliated students in my classes. They are deeply disappointed with the choices. Are Trump and Biden the best that we can come up with as the two contenders for the presidency? Why are they so old? Well, that’s a good question. They are old because they’re old, but why are we running such old people for president? As an old person myself, I tell them to relax a little bit with that. But it is, the stakes are extremely high. They’re very different, in their, leadership styles in their approach to government and in their policies. So, the winner of the November – that the stakes are really high for who the winner is.
Donnis: As you say, many people are dissatisfied with the seeming choice of Donald Trump and Joe Biden as the candidates. What explanation do you offer as a political scientist for how we’ve gotten these choices that a lot of people are not very happy with?
Speakman: Well, we have the choice of Biden, because that’s the way you do it. If an incumbent is running, he doesn’t get a challenge from within his party, typically. And we know that to be true, in almost every case. With regard to Trump, I, as a political scientist, am surprised, I guess I shouldn’t have been, that he is running again. However, the hold that he has on the Republican Party is remarkable. I’ve studied political parties for a very long time, and it is very rare to see this kind of fervor for a particular leader. So that’s a surprise, and I think political scientists are going to have to spend a lot of time unpacking how the Republican Party came to be where it is today.
Donnis: Do you see a point in the future when America moves past the hyper partisanship that’s been growing in intensity for about 15 years?
Speakman: Well, I don’t see anything wrong with political parties having clear agendas that are different one from the other that give voters a true choice. It is the negative, vibe in politics now. You can want big government or small government, right? You can want gun control or not. But you can argue about them in a civil way. We have done that for many, many years. Right now, we’re at a place where it’s not partisanship. It’s the tone, the negative tone and the absolute unwillingness to compromise. You saw President Biden last week develop a compromise on immigration, and at the last minute, it failed. So it really is a very toxic environment right now, unfortunately.
Donnis: State Representative June Speakman, a Democrat from Warren. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speakman: It’s a pleasure to be here.
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Children in Rhode Island continue to suffer from lead paint poisoning, as my colleague Nina Sparling reports in a series this week on The Public’s Radio. Back in 1999, Rhode Island was the first state to bring the fight to lead paint manufacturers with a lawsuit. In 2002, a jury demanded that three paint makers pay billions of dollars to clean up contaminated homes. But the Rhode Island Supreme Court, in a unanimous decision, threw out the jury finding in 2008. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and at thepublicsradio.org/tgif
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Legislative Oversight committees plan to hold a joint hearing Monday to examine the crisis involving the Washington Bridge. For now, motorists continue to wrestle with congested traffic at peak times and the ripple effect sometimes extends beyond Interstate 195 into the streets of Providence, East Providence and other communities. If the westbound Washington Bridge needs to be replaced, these problems could persist for at least a year or two. Can state lawmakers get answers on how Rhode Island got into this situation? Is RIDOT Director Peter Alviti the right person to chart the state’s transportation needs? And how is the shadow posed by the Washington Bridge playing in Governor Dan McKee’s hometown of Cumberland? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with the number two Democrat in the Rhode Island Senate, Majority Leader Ryan Pearson.
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Ryan Pearson: Thanks for having me, Ian.
Donnis: Legislative Oversight Committees plan to hold a joint hearing Monday to probe the crisis involving the Washington Bridge. Do you plan to use your ex-officio capacity as majority leader to sit in on or participate in that meeting?
Pearson: Not at this time, but I have a lot of confidence in both Chairman McKenney and Chairwoman Serpa and the members. I know they’ve been preparing for it and trying to make sure that they are well organized and they can get information for Rhode Islanders, and I’m confident they’re gonna do a great job.
Donnis: There’s a lot of mystery still about how this situation came about. Does it make sense to you that the west bound bridge was found to be okay during an inspection at midpoint last year and now is in such disrepair that it might need to be demolished and replaced?
Pearson: Yeah, it certainly doesn’t sound rational to a layperson like myself. I’m not an engineer by trade, but these are the exact questions that I know the committee is going to be getting into, with the director, with the engineers, and people who are experts in this space. And I know that’s going to be a question they’re pushing for, and I’m looking forward to finding out those answers myself.
Donnis: This has emerged as a major crisis for Governor McKee and Peter Alviti, director of the Rhode Island Department of Transportation. The Boston Globe reports that union officials accuse Alviti of creating a toxic work climate. Do you still have confidence in Peter Alviti as RIDOT director at this point?
Pearson: Yeah, I’ve talked to Chairman McKenney about that report since it came out, and I do know that he is going to make sure that that is included in what they’re looking at. I think part of, and a few of our members have raised this concern around you know, how much of the work is still being done internally versus how much is being pushed out by contractors. And I know that is an area they are going to be looking into and finding out more information. And so, I want to defer to the committee and to their process is the reason we’re doing it. I don’t want to prejudge anything, but I want to make sure that we’re getting the right facts and the right information to the committee and out to the public.
Donnis: So, for now, you still do have confidence in Peter Alviti, is that correct?
Pearson: I have no reason not to, but again, I want to look forward to what comes out in the hearings and certainly I think the hearings will either demonstrate the facts on that issue that can inform us.
Donnis: You are a lifelong resident of Cumberland. That’s the hometown of Governor Dan McKee. I wonder how this is playing there. Has Governor McKee’s standing taken a hit in his hometown due to this issue involving the Washington Bridge?
Pearson: Yeah, the bridge is impacting Rhode Islanders all across the state. You know, I obviously live in Cumberland and you know, commute to, to my offices, in Providence and Johnston, but, I don’t have to travel that bridge every day. That being said, when I came back, from a trip earlier this week, I got caught up on 95 myself, going through it. So, it’s impacted Rhode Islanders in every community, and I know that they share in that. And I think, you know, and I say this to folks often that, at the end of the day, the legislature’s role, is legislate and appropriate. And this is, this is the governor’s, standing. He really needs to execute on this one, and I know he’s putting a lot of attention and a lot of focus on it, and I think that Rhode Island voters from across the state are going to be paying attention. It’s impacting them greatly.
Donnis: How are people in Cumberland talking about this?
Pearson: In Cumberland, you know, I think people are aware of it, and I think just by the nature of where we’re located, we have, we don’t have the acuity that you’ll hear in East Providence or Barrington. But I’ll tell you when I talk to our East Bay legislators, you know, they are all over this. I have to give a lot of credit to Senator Lawson, Senators Britto, Lauria, Felag, you know, all of our senators from the East Bay, they have really, you know, paid a lot of attention to this, have really been thoughtful with Chairman McKenney and partnering on what the oversight topics would be, and I know they’re really concerned about their constituents. So, they hear about it a lot more than I do, I will admit that, but I also still hear from constituents all the time that are impacted.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears and talk about some other issues. Last year, the only bill [that failed] in a housing package backed by House Speaker Joe Shekarchi was one that would have promoted the development of accessory dwelling units, also known as granny flats. There was opposition to that in the Senate where the bill died. Do you support moving that bill forward this year?
Pearson: Yeah, I want to first start by congratulating the speaker. He put together 14 pieces of legislation on housing. And we were able to move 13 of them across the finish line. And so this one is the last one that was part of that package. And senators had concerns around, the language in the bill where it allows basically a by right, designed to create ADUs, and the sizes of those ADUs that by right you would have the ability to build. And so I definitely think there’s a workable path on this. I would imagine through some amendments to it, we can find a path and we’re committed to working with the Speaker to find a way forward on that legislation.
Donnis: Your colleague, Senate President Dominic Ruggerio, in his opening day speech last month, talked about the need to make changes to Medicaid reimbursement in the state. This is one of the challenges on health care that the state faces. The Executive Office of Health and Human Services recommended changing the reimbursement rate over two years. Governor McKee’s budget recommends changing that over three years. Can the state wait that long to deal with this?
Pearson: It’s a very good question. Chairman DiPalma and many members of the Senate have been pushing on this issue for a long time, and I think it is absolutely critical to the healthcare system. And, you know, Rhode Island is behind on rates that we pay, both commercial and Medicaid, to providers, which is driving a provider shortage in Rhode Island. So, I personally believe that we need to move as quickly as possible. I understand the governor’s timing and why he did it and the balance that he’s trying to do. But I also understand that, you know, if there is additional revenue open in May, when we get to the revenue estimating conference, it is going to be a top priority of the Senate to advance those Medicaid rates as quickly as we possibly can. It’s the right thing to do for Rhode Islanders who need the care. And it’s also critically important for us to maintain the financial stability and health of providers, networks, and the hospital systems
Donnis: On issues like Medicaid, a number of different state agencies are involved with the issue. The state Medicaid office, the office of health insurance commissioner, executive office of health and human services, et cetera. Is the healthcare bureaucracy too siloed in Rhode Island?
Pearson: Yeah, I think, you know, there is, there is some fair criticism I think there. Healthcare policy and healthcare leadership, are critical. And that because of the multi different folks that have responsibility that I can understand that. I will say though that the Executive Office of Health and Human Services was literally formed for this reason. And I’ve talked to Secretary Charest when we confirmed him and as recently as a few weeks ago to follow up. It is absolutely the Senate’s expectation that the executive office maintains a leadership role in coordinating health policy. That being said, I think there’s a lot of work to do. He is working on re-starting the health planning work that the department, the secretary used to do, at our urging, which I’m very happy to see that. And also, in about hopefully in the next month or so, the Senate, and senators Miller, DiMario, Lauria, Lawson, and many others have been working collaboratively with myself and the president on a healthcare package. One that we know will not be a solution to all of our problems, and because none of this is easy, especially on healthcare, but we are looking in the Senate to have a package that we can put forward that we believe will meaningfully improve the healthcare system of Rhode Island. And we look forward to sharing that with you, probably in a few weeks.
Donnis: Your colleague, Senate Finance Chairman Lou DiPalma, is the Senate sponsor of a bill this week to overhaul the state’s open records law. The idea is to increase transparency. Do you support that measure?
Pearson: Yeah, I haven’t read the exact bill, but I support the concept. I think we’re seeing, in Rhode Island, that the access to public records has been something that is being relied on more and more rather than departments and agencies just providing information. So I do think we need to make sure that transparency is easy. It’s accessible to Rhode Islanders and especially to the media. And so I support efforts in that direction. I haven’t honestly read through every piece of that bill, so I’d have to go through it, but I support the general theme.
Donnis: Gun issues are always hotly debated at the legislature, and one proposal that has not moved forward so far is one for so-called safe storage of weapons. We know that guns are a leading cause or a leading instrument in suicide. Do you think the safe storage bill will move forward this year?
Pearson: I certainly hope so. I noted it at the end of the year that this was going to be a personal priority of mine, to gain a consensus in our chamber and move this along. I have to give Senator Lauria a ton of credit. She has done a great job. I encourage you to go look at the co sponsors, on that legislation. She has really worked Senator by Senator to gain support and I’m happy to work with her on it. and I’m hopeful we can get it across the finish line, as soon as possible.
Donnis: Your colleagues, Senate President Dominic Ruggiero and RIDOT Director Peter Alviti have been very critical of Scott Avedisian’s leadership of RIPTA. It seems like the fundamental issue at RIPTA for a long time has been insufficient funding. So can you explain why they have such antagonism toward Scott Avedisian?
Pearson: Yeah, I mean, I’ll take it back to when I was the Senate Finance Chairman and we had influxes of federal money coming into RIPTA. And the hearings that we had at the time, we actually asked RIPTA, with this federal money, how are we using it to increase ridership, redesign the system, find more efficiency, because the money for the feds was just being used to plug operating holes. And unfortunately, the operating hole at RIPTA has been known for a very long time, and we haven’t had any sort of use of those funds that would have mitigated or changed the trajectory of that, of that operating deficit that they have, and quite frankly, haven’t seen a great, you know, financial plan for the agency. And so, I certainly agree with the president that there is more work to be done here, on planning and really thinking about how we get RIPTA to increase ridership and be a bigger service to Rhode Islanders rather than just, you know, dumping money into an operational hole.
Donnis: The stock market is up. Unemployment is low. The U. S. economy is growing with lots of jobs. Despite this, President Biden’s approval rating is very low. What’s your explanation for that as a Democrat?
Pearson: You know, it’s honestly something that perplexes me sometimes. You know, I work in financial services as a day job and, as you mentioned, all of the measures of the economy are doing incredibly well. I think inflation sticks in Rhode Islanders heads and Americans heads and for very good reason. It’s impacted every family and citizen in the state and I certainly know that nobody wants to see inflation at the levels that we did. You know, the reality of that is that’s, you know, we saw that globally, right? So it wasn’t just U. S. policy that drove inflation. Supply chains drove that. Global disruption drove that. I’m sure there might be some pieces of U. S. policy that have done that as well. But that U. S. policy also kept us out of going into a massive recession, you know, the likes of the Great Depression. and if you look, you know, the stories that are coming out now about the U.S. economy is one of the only ones that’s growing. And it’s the strongest economy in the world. And other countries went into recession or have gone through anemic paces of growth. and the United States isn’t doing that. And so, I think that Americans, you know, understandably have frustrations with inflation. And I think that’s stuck in their mind. But when you think about the fundamentals, if you think about wage growth, if you think about jobs, if you think about businesses, the economy is doing really, really well. and I think president Biden deserves reelection.
Donnis: Majority leader in the Rhode Island Senate, Ryan Pearson, Democrat of Cumberland. Thank you so much for joining us.
Pearson: Thank you, Ian. Good to be here.
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Elected officials in Rhode Island are starting to pay more attention to weaknesses in the local healthcare landscape. Some of these concerns, like a shortage of primary care doctors, are not limited to the state. Others, including how overlapping agencies have responsibility for programs like Medicaid, can make it more difficult to move forward. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Conservative activists and academics in some states are attacking efforts to promote diversity, equity and inclusion. Here in Rhode Island, the Providence City Council and General Assembly reflect the makeup of the state much more so than they did 15 years ago. And the two largest police departments here, Providence police and the State Police, are led by men of color. So how is Rhode Island doing when it comes to issues of race and justice? Is the state immune from the backlash seen in some other places? And how is the outlook for progress? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with president of the Black Lives Matter Rhode Island Political Action Committee Harrison Tuttle.
https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/1735096716&color=%23ff5500&auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=false&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&show_teaser=true
The Public’s Radio · BLM RI PAC’s Harrison Tuttle
This transcript has been edited for clarity.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s radio.
Harrison Tuttle: Thanks for having me.
Donnis: We’re going to talk about police accountability and other issues of interest to Black Lives Matter Rhode Island PAC. But I want to start with the issue dominating attention in Rhode Island, the saga involving the Washington bridge. I wonder as a Rhode Islander, do you have confidence right now in the ability of governor Dan McKee and RIDOT director Peter Alviti to manage the situation?
Tuttle: Well, we’ve got to make sure that all the details continue to come out. It’s obviously ever evolving. What’s going on is obviously concerning, not only for the logistical practices of people getting to work for local businesses throughout Rhode Island, but also the recent report when it came to the DOJ coming out and, and wanting to investigate.So, look, I think none of this looks good upon our state. I believe that everyone throughout this process is operating in a manner in which they want to get the bridge fixed as quickly as possible. How we get to that point, why the bridge failed, I think we’re going to leave up to the legislative oversight to see, you know, what actually went on.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears and talk about the Law Enforcement Officers Bill of Rights, which for years critics have said inhibits and blocks effective discipline of police who engage in misconduct. A Senate version of the bill sailed through that chamber on a 35 to 0 vote. Are you satisfied with that version of the bill?
Tuttle: So our stance has always been that we believe that Rhode Island should be with the majority of the country. When it comes to allowing police chiefs to have autonomy over their own police departments, ensuring that, following an internal investigation that police chiefs, because of the manner in which we’ve seen police over the last couple of years, especially around George Floyd, that really sparked this conversation. You know, we want a system in which police chiefs are able to fire officers when they feel like they’ve committed misconduct to the degree in which obviously the public is concerned. And local municipalities should be concerned. You know, unfortunately, LEOBOR has created this process of unnecessary barriers to accountability and most importantly, transparency, to the public.
When we look at Officer Dolan, when we look at Jeann Lugo, and we see the long, drawn out waiting periods, this isn’t exclusive to Rhode Island. This is exclusive to other states. One of 14 states throughout the country, that when police officers do something wrong, We have this process of, of LEOBOR. And so we’re looking to make sure that the best possible changes are made within the two chambers. We think that the House is going to produce recommendations that are more in line with us when it comes to ensuring that the process is quicker.
Donnis: Let me stop you there. What specific differences do you expect in the House bill that would be different from the Senate bill that you think would make a better difference?
Tuttle: Well, so there are two different reforms. And of course, there’s a repeal bill by Representative Jennifer Stewart. We’ve gone on record in the past going back to last year saying that out of the two reforms in the House chamber, of course, by Representative Jose Batista and Representative Ray Hull that we would favor Representative Jose Batista’s reform bill, and the reason for that is because, Representative Batista’s reforms allows police chiefs to have more autonomy and more transparency throughout the process, allowing police to fire officers, and then allowing the officer to appeal, without a paid suspension.
Donnis: Beyond LEOBOR, what are other top priorities for the Black Lives Rhode Island PAC?
Tuttle: Sure, well, we were extremely involved in different coalitions relating to paid sick leave, ensuring that we have increased funding towards transportation. It’s incredibly important to lower income communities that are predominantly black and brown. When we look at our urban cities and towns, and so putting an emphasis on making sure that RIPTA is fully funded is something that we’re prioritizing this year, as well as making sure that we have other legislation such as ending solitary confinement. Which is considered to be torture throughout the world, considered by the, you know, United Nations. As well as making sure that, we finally address bail on 32, which really restricts a lot of individuals from, making the process easier when it comes to recidivism.
Donnis: We know that there was a heightened focus on diversity, equity, inclusion, particularly in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd. Now though, there’s been a backlash sparked by conservative activists and academics. I wonder, How you see that and what you think should be done to counter that backlash?
Tuttle: Well, I think we see conservatives all throughout the country not only attacking rights of of black and brown individuals, but women, LGBTQIA plus Individuals and so this is a really scary time that we’re in especially when we look at global affairs that are going on and the increased really contentious split that our country has when it comes to different issues pertaining to DEI.
You know, Black Lives Matter was founded on the principle that every life should be valued, and when we have a society that has historically not valued Black lives, that is what really sparked the movement. And so, the work that we do, electing elected officials, ensuring that there is policy at the statehouse that is equitable and just, all is in align with DEI and we fully support any organization, especially here in Rhode Island, that continues to practice that.
Donnis: There was a lot of talk about social equity when Rhode Island legalized marijuana back in 2022. At the time, I reported on how there were concerns about whether the state would really live up to its rhetoric. And here we are, two years later, and the state has yet to issue the additional licenses, a portion of which would, were supposed to go to people who were hurt by the war on drugs. So, is the state failing to live up to its rhetoric on social equity in marijuana?
Tuttle: So, we’re certainly not moving as fast as I think we should. I think, particularly when we look at other states that have legalized marijuana, such as New York, and other places, they are far ahead of the curve when it comes to making sure that the effects that the war on drugs had, particularly when it came to black and brown communities, were addressed or tried to remedy with, with the legalization of marijuana.
But, you know, Rhode Island, unfortunately, is behind on many pieces of legislation that we see across the country when it deals with making sure that we undo the wrongs that have been previously done. And so our hope is that we continue to work with lawmakers as well as the General Assembly as a whole, to ensure that we are in a position to where we can get those licenses to folks that, you know, have been previously affected.
Donnis: The Black Lives Matter Rodan PAC organized itself in 2020. How much money has the PAC raised since then and how has the PAC spent the money?
Tuttle: Yeah, so it’s a really interesting concept Ian. I think a lot of folks think that I do this as a full time job. all the money that we have raised over the last four years have gone directly into candidates and events. We just recently announced that we’re holding a panel discussion on February 15th at Rochambeau Library at 6 o’clock dealing with BIPOC queerness. That money that we invest in that event that is raised that we get from donations goes directly into events like that. And so we’ve raised over $60,000 over the last four years and in a volunteer capacity, which is incredibly impressive.
Donnis: We’ve seen debate about the issue of state contracts that are awarded to women and so called “minority business enterprises.” Lisa Ranglin at the Black Business Association has been very critical of the state. She says the state is not doing enough. The McKee administration defends itself, says it is doing more and says it’s doing better than the Raimondo administration. What is your view on that?
Tuttle: So we came out and, and, and supported, obviously the Rhode Island Black Business Association, which is doing incredible work, just opened up their office. And, you know, I think the most important thing is that we have folks that are advocates in the community. That’s the most important part. Individuals like Lisa are doing a great job in the community, not only for black businesses, but all businesses. And we hope that, you know, the governor and the Rhode Island Black Business Association continue to work together and ensure the best outcomes possible.
Donnis: You’re a young guy. So I wonder what you think about the ambivalence that some young Democrats have about Joe Biden, particularly as he faces a somewhat cataclysmic confrontation seemingly with Donald Trump later this year.
Tuttle: Yeah, I mean it’s obviously a situation in which you know, young people understand the magnitude of where we are in this country, being that we are going to live in it and we’re going to deal with the consequences of the decisions that are being made now and prior to us. And, and so, you know, regarding the presidential election, I think a lot of people in 2020 weren’t exactly thrilled with voting for Joe Biden, but it was something that, you know, we understood the magnitude of ensuring that we didn’t have another four years of Donald Trump. And so, with this upcoming, you know, global conflict that’s going on, I mean, I can only speak for people that are young, like me, you know, they’re in a very difficult position right now. A lot of them feel discouraged. A lot of them feel like the calls for change haven’t been answered. It’s certainly not to the degree in which was promised during the 2020 election by President Biden. So, you know, as the election continues to go on, it’s incredibly important that people come out to vote, but it’s also important that people feel like their voices are being heard. Gen Z and millennials in particular don’t exactly feel like the issues that they care about are being addressed.
Donnis: Black voters really saved Joe Biden’s bacon, particularly in the South Carolina primary in 2020. What would your message be to Black voters as we’re looking at a potential confrontation between Biden and Trump?
Tuttle: Well, I would be remiss – It was Black women in particular who really delivered the presidency for Joe Biden and, and this is consistent throughout our history when it comes to Black women who consistently show up at the polls and deliver. Look, my message is we’ve got to make sure that we’re educated on the issues. If we don’t come out to vote, if we’re not civically engaged. I compare voting like working out. If you just work out once, you’re not going to see the change. If you work out multiple times and your diet’s still bad, you’re still not going to see the change. So, making sure that folks are involved at a local level, which they can have a much broader impact, and they can see more instant results is incredibly important and we’re going to be doing our best to make sure that voters are educated as well as registered to vote, in the upcoming primary that’s only a couple of months away.
Donnis: Black Lives Matter Rhode Island President Harrison Tuttle, thank you so much for joining us.
Tuttle: Thank you so much.
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The filing this week of fourth-quarter campaign finance reports from 2023 offers a reminder of how we’re inching closer to another gubernatorial election, in 2026. Two years is an eternity in politics, since a lot can change over that time, some of it unexpected. For now, however, the problems involving the Washington Bridge cast a shadow over Governor Dan McKee. And one of McKee’s Democratic primary rivals from 2022, former CVS Health executive Helena Foulkes, put out a statement commenting on how she raised more than $116,000 in the last three months of 2023. Foulkes says she continues to keep her options open on ways that she might make a positive contribution to the state. That’s politics-speak for how she appears to be gearing up for another run. As we approach 2026, Attorney General Peter Neronha is also contemplating a run for governor. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner. I’m Ian Donnis, and I’ll see you on the radio.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Sue Cienki: Thank you for having me.
Ian Donnis: We’re going to talk about Donald Trump, the presidential race and the outlook for Rhode Island Republicans. But I want to start with some news from this week. The Rhode Island ethics commission dismissed a complaint filed by your successor as state GOP chairman, Joe Powers against Governor Dan McKee. This was the second recent time when the commission had dismissed a complaint filed by Powers against a powerful Rhode Island politician. Does this show that Chairman Powers needs to rethink his approach on filing ethics complaints?
Sue Cienki: No. I think our job as the minority party in the state is to hold the Democrats accountable.
You know, we’re disappointed in the Ethics Commission, but not surprised. and quite frankly, when you go out to dinner with people and the check comes, everybody knows who pays for it. So, to say that it was a mistake or McKee didn’t know, I don’t buy his excuse, but, we’ll live with the decision. And you have to keep holding these Democrats accountable for everything that they do in the state.
Ian Donnis: Is it holding Democrats accountable, though, if the commission in two high profile cases finds no probable cause?
Sue Cienki: Well, you have to keep going, you know, and someday if they can find an off ramp, the ethics commission will Try to find the off ramp, but we’re just gonna keep going. You know, the Ethics Commission is a group of people that are appointed by the governor. So you have to have a very, very strong case for them to side with you.
Ian Donnis: Well, they’ve been appointed by a string of Governors over time. And you think they are not deciding the cases on their merits?
Sue Cienki: No, I think that, you know, they look at it and they look at the ethics code and maybe the ethics code has to be strengthened so that they can side with the people and constituents in the state. So that’s it. Not that they decide wrongly. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying probably the ethics code has to be a little bit stronger.
Ian Donnis: Well, let’s shift gears to talk about Donald Trump’s win in the New Hampshire primary this week. He looks like he has a virtual lock on the GOP nomination, but Nikki Haley is still in the race. Are you supporting Donald Trump for president at this point?
Sue Cienki: You know, I’m not supporting anybody at this point. You know, as a person that’s a state party leadership. We have to stay neutral. We watch and see who will become the eventual nominee. I think that there are a couple of takeaways from New Hampshire. 50 percent of the Republicans voted for Donald Trump. That means 50 percent didn’t. And 47 percent of independents, because it is a primary where independents can vote, did not vote for him. So he’s got to learn how to appeal to the independents and the same thing with President Joe Biden. You cannot win a presidential race unless you are attracting independents to your side.
So how is he going to do that? You know, if you look back at the data in 2020, he lost a lot of suburban women. How do you gain those back? What are you going to say to gain them back? And from now until November, that’s a long time. Things can happen. You’ve got a 77 year old Republican running and you’ve got an 81 year old Democrat running. A lot can happen. things change in the country. So we’ll see what happens.
Ian Donnis: You are a Republican through and through. You’re the former state Republican chairwoman. You’re now the national committeewoman. So you will certainly expect the, you will certainly support the Republican candidate for president, regardless of who it is. And that’ll probably be Donald Trump. What do you say to people who point to how Trump called political opponents in November “vermin” and said immigrant immigration is, “poisoning the blood of America?” He’s talked about suspending the Constitution, suggested that former Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley deserved to be executed. Is there anything that would lead you to consider Donald Trump to be unworthy of serving as president?
Sue Cienki: You know, I think that he attracts a certain element in the country that likes to see a fighter, somebody that fights back. I think sometimes his rhetoric gets him into trouble. And again, and that speaks to what happened in 2020, where he lost people, where he lost voters. Because they don’t like that. They had the option of voting, you know, for, President Joe Biden. And maybe it wasn’t a vote for President Joe Biden, but it was a vote against Donald Trump, which is I think what happened in 2016 when people didn’t like Hillary Clinton. So maybe it wasn’t a vote for Donald Trump in 2016, but it was a vote against Hillary Clinton. So what happens in 2024 when people may not want that matchup of Biden versus Trump. They may not want it. So who is the beneficiary of that? Is it RFK Jr.? Is it Robert Kennedy that is going to start pulling away just like Ross Perot did in 1992, he’s going to pull some of those people away. So who gets elected? I’m not quite sure.
Ian Donnis: Let’s talk a little more about Rhode Island. You served for a couple of years as state GOP chairwoman. Your strategy was to promote legislative candidates over consecutive cycles. And still we see how the GOP just has nine, excuse me, the GOP has just 14 of 113 seats in the legislature. What is your takeaway for, from about why it’s such a struggle to elect more Republicans to the legislature?
Sue Cienki: Yeah. So I think in my first two years, when I was state party chair, we had about 23 percent of the state seats in the general assembly where we had candidates running against these people. In the last cycle in 2022, we covered about 56%. So we had more people willing to run. When I got in, a lot of those people in the last cycle, it was the first time that they, that they ran. We had a candidate run against, in Warwick, Marie Hopkins, who only lost by, I think, three votes. So that was a close race. Some of these races were getting closer and closer. I think James Lathrop, who ran for treasurer. Very well qualified, and he made huge strides. But we’d love to see candidates like that come back and run again the second time. As we know, a lot of these candidates, it’s name recognition, getting out there first time. A lot of our candidates started late. We’re hoping that a lot of these candidates run again and then we attract more people and they start running almost immediately in March. You’ve got to start running and getting people to know, you know, what’s going on, what’s going on in the state. I think you have a heightened sensitivity with things about the infrastructure that’s going on in the state. In particular, the Washington Bridge. The East Bay has always been a particularly hard area for Republicans to win. Well, maybe we’ll be able to turn some of those seats because people feel as if nobody was paying attention to the infrastructure. So maybe we’ll have a few more wins.
Ian Donnis: Rhode Islanders have not elected a Republican governor since 2006. Republicans have been locked out of other statewide offices for a longer time. We look back to the 1980s and see how Republican women like Claudine Schneider, Susan Farmer, and Arlene Violet were able to win statewide offices. What is the difference between why they were able to win back in the 80s and it’s such a struggle for Republican candidates to win statewide now?
Sue Cienki: Well, you’ve just got to find the right candidates, you know, the right candidates with the right message. most of those women that ran, very intelligent, very smart, very moderate in a lot of their views. You know, if we stick to issues that people care about and talk about them in a significant way, I think you’ll get more people to jump over the fence and, and vote for a Republican.
Ian Donnis: Not everyone knows what you do as GOP National Committee woman. So how would you describe your role and your responsibilities?
Sue Cienki: So my role and responsibilities is every four years when the presidential candidates come into Rhode Island. And they need to get ballot access. We give them the rules and regulations for the state, how they access the ballot. And really that’s our main role is to make sure that any Republican candidate that wants to run for president knows the rules. And if they ask for our help, we will help secure their place on the ballot. And that’s what happened this time. We had four candidates: Governor Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, President Donald Trump and, Ron DeSantis, Governor Ron DeSantis, asked us to help them get ballot access, and we did. We did not hear from Vivek Ramaswamy or Ryan Binkley. They didn’t ask for our help. We gave them the information, so we got four of those candidates on the ballot.
Ian Donnis: In 2022, Ashley Kalus was the Republican candidate for Governor in Rhode Island. She welcomed the fight. She had good communication skills, but she got into the race late. And I think she was handicapped by being a relatively recent transplant to Rhode Island. What is the GOP doing differently now to make a more effective case for governor in 2026?
Sue Cienki: Well, I think you have to look at who the current governor is, and point out where he has failed. You know, what has he done that hasn’t benefited the state of Rhode Island? I think he will probably have a Democratic primary. It seems as if Helena Foulkes is not going away and maybe Peter Neronha, who is term limited. Maybe he will have a contentious primary on his side. And the Republicans, you know, maybe Ashley will, will jump back in. She’s still around, she’s been kind of quiet, but she, you may see her pop up again and get more involved in what is going on currently within the state.
Ian Donnis: To come back to former President Donald Trump, former Republican official Liz Cheney is among those raising flags that he could be a real threat to the rule of law in America. Does that raise any concerns for you?
Sue Cienki: Well, I’m not a big fan of Liz Cheney, and one of the reasons I’m not a big fan is for the secrecy, the state of silence in this country. What I worry about is one of the court cases that Donald Trump is involved in, and that happens to be the classified documents case in Mar a Lago. I’m worried about that because of the application of that statute, the Espionage Act. That was first put forth in 1917, and over the last 15 years, it hasn’t been handled even handedly. So, anything that comes out of that, and Liz Cheney, her father was a big promoter of that act. So I think that’s
Ian Donnis: Let me ask you this though, but the thinking is that there were people in the administration when Trump was last president that helped to put some guardrails on him and that those people would not be present if he wins re-election and that the field is kind of sown with people who would be yes men or yes women for Trump. Is that a concern?
Sue Cienki: No, I think that, you know, we have a constitution and I think that there will be enough people around him to say there are guardrails and there are things that you can and cannot do. I mean, if you look in 2016, one of the big talking points that he said was, you know, put her in jail, put Hillary Clinton in jail. Well, he had four years to do that and he didn’t do any of that. But yet when the Biden administration came in, they actually went after their political opponents. I really don’t believe he is going to go after Joe Biden or anybody in his administration. And there is a rule of law here. I think that we have courts that have said that, and I’m not that worried about that.
Ian Donnis: All right. We’ve got to leave it there, Sue Cienkii, thank you so much for joining me.
Sue Cienki: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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You could almost hear the groans across Rhode Island when state officials this week offered an update on the Washington Bridge. The most dramatic news was that demolishing the westbound part of the span is not being ruled out at this point, although officials say they need more time to assess the situation. For now, the bottleneck created by closing lanes on the Washington Bridge continues to cause traffic congestion in and around Providence. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
So how can the state make crucial investments in healthcare, education and housing with less money? And what does the state need to do to be more economically competitive? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with president and CEO of the Rhode Island Public Expenditure Council, Michael DiBiase.
TRANSCRIPT:
Ian Donnis: Governor McKee used his State of the State address this week to offer an optimistic message about Rhode Island’s future. Of course, the Republican leader in the Rhode Island’s House, Michael Chippendale, painted things in more somber tones, underscoring a number of serious challenges the state faces. Do you think Governor McKee is making Rhode Island’s future sound too rosy?
Michael DiBiase: I think it’s his job to be optimistic and set audacious goals. We have a lot of good things going and we also have some serious challenges to deal with.
Donnis: One of the takeaways from the governor’s state of the state address was what sounded like a fairly audacious goal to raise per capita income in Rhode Island by $20,000, at least by 2030. As it stands, Rhode Island’s per capita income is about 62, 63 thousand dollars, about 20,000 less than for our neighbors in Connecticut and Massachusetts. Of course, we need to know whether this goal would be inflation adjusted or just with a nominal increase in money over time. If this was an inflation adjusted goal, would you think? Is it realistic to think that Rhode Island’s per capita income could increase significantly over the next four years?
DiBiase: So I think it’s good to have an audacious goal, and that’s certainly audacious. And I think it’s the right one. I think if we can increase income, we can solve many of our issues. I would say if we wanted to reach that goal, we would have to have a dramatic improvement in our education attainment and job skill levels. And so including adults, I mean, it would take, it would take an awful lot to get there.
Donnis: On a related note. We see how Rhode Island lacks well defined engines of job growth You’ve worked for former governors Lincoln Almond and Gina Raimondo So you’ve had an inside view on efforts within state government to try and improve the economy. Right now, Governor McKee and House Speaker Joe Shekarchi talk about the life sciences industry.
There’s an effort to create a life sciences hub, and they have high hopes for that. But right now, that’s more of an idea than a real, than something that’s come to fruition. So, do you think that Rhode Island is taking the right steps now to build a more robust economy?
DiBiase: So I think some of these initiatives and investments like life sciences, wind power, cybersecurity make a lot of sense. I mean, if we can create centers of excellence here, the more I’ve been around economic development, given that we’re a relatively small metropolitan area, we haven’t been able to attract large employers. I am more around the idea of improving our skill levels of our people. But certainly the the kind of initiatives that the governor and the speaker and the senate president are talking about are consistent with that and in trying to improve our skill levels
Donnis: Michael DiBiase, your organization the Rhode Island Public Expenditure Council put out a report last week describing how Rhode Island faces significant needs in health care, education and housing and transportation. But how there is less money available for those things now that the federal gusher of COVID aid has expired. How can the state make the best of this more challenging fiscal landscape while trying to make progress on those important needs?
DiBiase: Yeah, I mean, the important point is we’re not having declining revenues. We’re kind of going back to the budget situation we had before the pandemic, and we’re just going to need to be smarter in our choices. We’re just not going to have as much resources to spread around.
Donnis: We’re hearing more talk from Governor McKee and other elected officials about weaknesses in Rhode Island’s healthcare landscape. One part of that is how there’s a heavy reliance on Medicaid and Medicare, which pay healthcare providers less than private insurance like Blue Cross. There’s talk now of increasing the Medicaid reimbursement rate. How will this affect the state’s fiscal outlook? And is it realistic to think that the state can make some meaningful progress in this area?
DiBiase: Yeah, I do think this is going to be the central challenge of this budget. So Medicaid is 30 percent of the state spending in the budget. It’s sort of the aircraft carrier of the budget. And the ability to significantly raise Medicaid rates, which we need to do in a lot of places, it’s going to be very hard to afford. So we’re going to have to just be more selective. And how we go about doing that and finding the places, the providers that most need these increases, at least in the short term.
Donnis: Another big issue in Rhode Island, of course, is the housing crisis. An analysis by your organization shows that even with a big allocation of state funds, only a small amount of the housing needed to address the situation will be built. Is there a better way to move forward in meeting the state’s housing needs?
DiBiase: I think, you know, if we all agree that this is one of our big social problems, and I think it is, then we, we then have to ask ourselves, is our state response, commensurate or responding enough to the size of the challenge? And historically, we’ve invested little in state money. We just had a big burst of federal money and a credit to the General Assembly and the Governor for doing that. But it seems now we’re going back to a period of, of relatively low state investment. Even the 100 million bond would be spent over multiple years. And I applaud the governor for proposing it, but it’s, according to our, it’s going to be less than a thousand units, according to our calculations.
Donnis: It’s expensive to build housing. That’s part of the problem. you know, given that, given how, housing starts have been very few. Are there other steps that could be taken to make more progress?
DiBiase: So, I mean, we obviously don’t have all the solutions, but I think we’re going to have to be more aggressive about land use restrictions and easing the ability to build. I think the Speaker has been a great leader on this in some municipalities, but we’re going to need more carrots and sticks to actually push this along. I think we have to look at direct subsidies. more mixed housing, rental assistance, which we really don’t have a rental assistance program. So I think we’re just going to have to have a more robust plan all around to deal with this issue. It’s hard for us. We’re next to affluent areas and they will gobble up our housing as we build it.
Donnis: RIPEC’S report last week noted how state general revenue spending on education has climbed by more than 300 million since fiscal year 2019. But it seems like progress has been largely elusive in improving public schools. We’ve heard talk for a long time about how important this is for the state’s economy. What is your sense of how the lack of more progress on schools is affecting Rhode Island’s economy right now?
DiBiase: Yeah, we’ve been at RIPEC pushing for more urgency to fix our schools. We think it’s a real crisis. I was very pleased to see that the governor is proposing 15 million for math and English language coaches, which I think is a great initiative. Money here is necessary but not sufficient. But we have underfunded our urban schools and they have the most needs. You know, one statistic is, this is a couple years old, but Pawtucket spends more than $2,000 less than the average per student all in on education, and that’s, that’s just not fair. It doesn’t mean more money will yield better results, but we gotta have more equitable funding in our schools.
Donnis: Federal COVID aid enabled Rhode Island to have consecutive budget surpluses, a very unusual situation in Rhode Island. How well do you think elected officials did in managing that money? Did they make, did they use it wisely and get the biggest bang for it considering how money is scarcer now?
DiBiase: Yeah, I think they did relatively well. They used it for one time purposes, they improved the state’s position, they invested in a lot of places that will yield results. I mean these things are always difficult and political.
Spending a lot of money is a lot like. There’s a lot like cutting budgets, but I think in general, they avoided the structural deficits that could come if they had used it for continuing expenses.
Donnis: Do you expect that we will see consecutive deficits and red ink in the budget in future years going back to the way it was before COVID?
DiBiase: I think we will see projected deficits going forward. The idea is whether we can, whether we can manage them and do our best with that situation. It’s always about the magnitude and whether we can manage them.
Donnis: One of the issues cited in RIPEC’s report was transportation spending. RIPTA is facing a big deficit, due in part to how there’s less gas tax revenue than in the past. What can be done to create a more sustainable funding stream for RIPTA and public transit in Rhode Island?
DiBiase: Yeah, we have not done a deep dive on the RIPTA budget, but it seems obvious in the short term that they’re going to have to, constrain operations, but they’re also going to need more revenue, and I think we need a broader conversation about the future of RIPTA and what we really want from that agency.
Donnis: You’re in a nonpartisan role, but you are a student of politics. I’m curious, why do you think polling shows a majority of Americans for many years have been pessimistic about the future of the country?
DiBiase: Gee, that’s a very hard question to answer. I’m not sure I’m that much of a student. I do think we’ve seen people lose faith in institutions, not just government, and I think we all have to work harder, and that includes me and you and people around government to help improve it. I’ve seen in my time, state government get a lot more transparent and open, but there’s a long way to go to be more honest with people about our challenges and what type of difficult choices and also delivering results. I mean, people get disillusioned if they don’t get results from government.
Donnis: Rhode Island’s Republicans are proposing creating an inspector general. They say that would root out fraud and waste. Do you have a stance pro or con on that proposal?
DiBiase: We don’t at RIPEC. I certainly see the merits of that type of independent body. It also will, you know, it also can create issues and conflicts in terms of the accountability of an office like that. So I think it’s something that should definitely be explored.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Michael DeBiase, President and CEO of the Rhode Island Public Expenditure Council. Thank you very much for joining us.
DiBiase: Thanks for having me on Ian. I really enjoyed it.
This transcript was edited for clarity.
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The Rhode Island Lottery is celebrating its 50th anniversary. The lottery publicizes occasions that we all fantasize about — when someone spends a few dollars on lottery tickets and wins a big prize. But critics say lotteries amount to a tax on people without much money and play on the unrealistic hope of striking it big. Is this a good way of raising money for the state? You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and thepublicsradio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Whether the decision blocking Trump from the ballot stands will be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court, as part of a high-stakes election year. Why does Schneider think courts, and not voters, should decide this issue? What does she make of how the Republican Party has dramatically changed since she served as a GOP lawmaker during the Reagan era? And how about the struggles of Republicans here in Rhode Island, where the party holds just 14 of 113 legislative seats and is locked out of state and federal offices? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with former Rhode Island Congresswoman Claudine Schneider.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Claudine Schneider: Thank you. I am delighted to be with you, Ian, and having the opportunity to address my former constituents. I’m pretty enthused.
Ian Donnis: Claudia Schneider, how did you become one of the six plaintiffs in this lawsuit that knocked Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado?
Claudine Schneider: Well, in order to be a plaintiff, you had to be a Colorado voter, which I am. And I am also still registered as a Republican. And so, those were some of the criteria in order to be a plaintiff. The other plaintiffs, there are a total of six in all, four of them are Republicans, two happen to be independents. And what’s interesting is that of those six, five are women. Just FYI, Ian.
Ian Donnis: Good to know. Take us through your thought process. I’m sure you put thought into this. How did you come to the conclusion that the pros of pursuing this case would outweigh the cons?
Claudine Schneider: Well, the primary elements that were necessary to prove in this case were that number one, there was an insurrection in fact, and number two, that, Donald Trump participated in that insurrection, and number three, he did so while he was an officer of the United States government, and so to me, those seemed pretty self evident.
And I will admit, while in the courtroom, I was absolutely blown away by the expert witnesses that our team had pulled in. We had two of the policemen who had been involved in the insurrection, so it wasn’t just video of what occurred, but there was live testimony from these individuals who escaped with their lives. And we have to remember, there were five people that died during that insurrection. And 140 of those police officers were injured. So this was quite an unprecedented, horrific occurrence.
Ian Donnis: How do you respond to the view of some people that the way for Donald Trump to be rejected or elected is by voters and that although there is a legal mechanism for the path that you and your co plaintiffs pursued, that it’s anti democratic to deny someone to be on the ballot?
Claudine Schneider: Okay, well, I have to, I have to chuckle at that because there’s nothing more undemocratic than failing to enforce the United States Constitution, which is the bedrock of our democracy. And the other thing is, you know, yes, some people have said the voters should decide, but let’s look at the facts. The voters did decide in 2020, they decided on Joe Biden, and that was a solid victory, which was proven by the governors of the states that were in question, by the secretaries of states from there, and then a number of court cases that also followed. So the evidence that Joe Biden had won was overwhelming and the voters chose Joe Biden, but Trump chose to deny that reality and he’s been trying to change the facts and that’s why he’s being charged at this moment in time.
Ian Donnis: As you say, Donald Trump is a real outlier in American politics, the first former president to be criminally charged. He said all manner of things that would have been disqualifying for traditional political candidates. Nonetheless, he remains the favorite by a mile of Republican voters. What is your explanation for that?
Claudine Schneider: I wish I were a mind reader. I’m afraid I don’t know other than the tactic of fear has been implemented by him, and his followers and lying. And many people I met, I just recently met a gentleman who told me he voted for Donald Trump twice and he’s finally come to realize that so much of what he thought was truth was not. And one of the plaintiffs in our case here in Colorado also had voted for Donald Trump twice, and she’d even worked for the Heritage Foundation, which is one of the most conservative think tanks in the United States. So the fact of the matter is, nobody likes to be fooled and some people are coming to the truth a little more slowly than others. But the reality is that. fear of losing in a primary race is certainly what is compelling a number of congressional candidates at this moment in time. And honestly, it, it breaks my heart.
Ian Donnis: More than 130 members of the U. S. House voted against certifying the results of the 2020 election. If the district, if the districts that elected those representatives continue to support them, what do you think should be done to diminish the influence of election deniers and conspiracy theorists?
Claudine Schneider: I think that the election deniers who are still in office, maybe about 127 of them or so, they have to be called out by people like you, Ian, by the media, and do the follow up questions about, you know, getting to the truth, rather than allowing them to be dominated by fear and duping some of the voters. So, we have always looked at the media as the fourth leg of our democracy in addition to the presidency and the administration, the Congress, and the judicial branch. So the media plays an important role and quite frankly, They really do need to help the voters understand truth from fiction.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with former Rhode Island Congresswoman Claudine Schneider, one of six plaintiffs in the lawsuit that knocked Donald Trump off the ballot in Colorado.
Claudine, you were first elected in 1980. You represented Rhode Island for 10 years. Your time in Congress coincided with Ronald Reagan’s two terms in the White House. And I’d like to play a clip. From Ronald Reagan’s reelection campaign in 1984.
Ian Donnis: So that was from Ronald Reagan’s 1984 re election campaign. Obviously, the obvious reference was to the Soviet Union. The Cold War has been over for a long time, but there are certain parallels between the Soviet leadership and Vladimir Putin. Putin, the current ruler of Russia, what, Claudine Schneider, what do you think of how Republicans in Congress are now leading opposition to cutting U.S. funding for Ukraine in its fight against Russia?
Claudine Schneider: It is horrifying to me. They are playing politics with the lives of the people in the Ukraine, and they are clearly damaging the role and the reputation of the United States in standing for democracy and for our allies. So, you know, when the president first had a meeting with Mr.Putin, I was quite horrified that he had asked his staff and others to leave the room that has never been done. That should not be done. We need a transparent government from the very top to the bottom of governance. And so the threat is real. That is why other nations in Europe and part of NATO and those who are not part of NATO are eager to join. So that we all stand united and the Republicans playing politics with the funding to support Ukraine is entirely irresponsible.
Ian Donnis: And by the president, you were referring to the former president, Donald Trump?
Claudine Schneider: Yes.
Ian Donnis: You served in the 1980s. That was a time when we saw other Republican women win office like Susan Farmer as secretary of state, Arlene Violet as attorney general. You’ve been in Colorado for some time and you’re less familiar with the current state of Rhode Island politics, but the Republican party has really struggled here recently and outside of the governor’s office has not elected anyone to the four other general office positions since the 1990s. What do you think the difference is between the Republican party in Rhode Island in the 1980s and now?
Claudine Schneider: Well, in the 1980s, the Republican party was quite tiny. We had Senator John Chafee, who was well loved and revered. And he was the one that urged me to run for Congress. But when I ran, the registration was 15 Democrats to every one Republican. So when I ran for office. I said, vote for the person, not the party. And I still, I felt very strongly that we need to elect people that you can trust. And so what’s going on now in Rhode Island, insofar as the Republican party is concerned, if they are adhering to some of the lies that have been put forward, then I think they’re going to have a very difficult time. And even if a Republican were to get elected, my concern is they would be squelched by the MAGA types in Congress. And so that’s why it’s imperative that we move them out.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of the MAGA dominance of the Republican Party nationally, how do you see the future for the Republican Party at the national level?
Claudine Schneider: Well, quite honestly, I do not see any future for America until all of the Republicans are resoundingly defeated because maybe then they will have a wake up call that is significant enough that they will understand that voters deserve true representation and deserve the truth and deserve kindness and collaboration.
For heaven’s sakes, I worked so closely with Republicans and Democrats. Jim Baker and I worked together on tax reform, and we have not seen tax reform since the 1980s. We’ve seen tax benefits for the few, the wealthy few, and for corporations. And so Republicans have no right to talk about the deficit when in fact they are responsible in making sure that the deficit increases in those kinds of ways.
Ian Donnis: That’s all the time we have, so we need to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us, former Rhode Island Congresswoman Claudine Schneider.
Claudine Schneider:
Thank you very much, Ian. A pleasure speaking with you today, and best of everything in 2024 for all of my Rhode Island’s constituents, friends, and everyone in Rhode Island.
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The flooding that hit Rhode Island this week is a reminder of the growing impact of climate change. More extreme weather is with us now, taxing the resources of local communities. While it remains unclear if the state and nation can reach long-term climate goals, bigger rainstorms have become increasingly common. This poses a challenge for elected officials and their ability to adapt to changing circumstances. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and the publics radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Jake Bissaillon won a special election last year to fill the vacancy created by the death of Senate Majority Whip Maryellen Goodwin. Bissaillon cut his political teeth as a student organizer for Barack Obama at Providence College in 2008, and he later worked as chief of staff for the Providence City Council and for state Senate President Dominick Ruggerio.
So why did Bissaillon want to make the transition from political staffer to political candidate? How does the 36-year-old Providence Democrat think Rhode Island can keep more young people from leaving the state? And what does he think can be done to improve Rhode Island’s economy? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with state Senator Jake Bissaillon.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Jake Bissaillon: Thank you for having me, Ian.
Ian Donnis: You’ve been a political staffer practically since you graduated from Providence College in 2009. Why did you want to make the transition to become an elected official?
Jake Bissaillon: I think that’s a great question. and I got it a lot this summer while I was out campaigning. So for the better part of a decade, a little more than a decade, I’ve been a senior staffer in government. First, with the Providence City Council, then with the Rhode Island House of Representatives and then with the Rhode Island Senate for the last seven years. And as you go through the campaign process, you begin to boil down your answers more and more and probably get to the heart of the matter, which is, at the end of the day, no one’s a political science major at Providence College and says, Hey, I’d like to be the chief of staff to the Providence City Council one day or the Rhode Island Senate.
Really, I think, What I had always gravitated towards was some sort of idea of public service, and so that’s why I chose political science as my major. That’s why I started volunteering on campaigns while I was at PC for, you know, President Obama and local campaigns. And that’s what led to my first jobs in the industry, so to speak, and, and in government.
Ian Donnis: Let me stop you there, because we’ve got a lot of ground to cover. Now that you are a state senator from Providence, what are your top priorities for the 2024 legislative session?
Jake Bissaillon: Yeah, and I think that dovetails just into what I was going to say. Really, my top priorities reflect the same priorities of the person whose seat I’ll be filling the unexpired term of, and that’s the late Mary Ellen Goodwin.
She represented Smith Hill for more than 30 years in the state senate. And losing her is a unique void in the senate. She was an outspoken advocate for a lot of folks at the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder, who I want to fight for, who also happen to live in the district. She was an outspoken advocate on common sense gun reform, specifically as you talk about being in the upper echelons in the state house, power circuit, if you will.
And, a few other things that I think have just risen to now crisis level in our state, and I heard about a lot this summer, was the state’s housing crisis. And that’s almost become a buzz term in and of itself, but, those are certainly big issues. And then the first issue that I ever worked on when I got to the state Senate, was criminal justice reform.
Back then it was entitled a package of bills called justice reinvestment. It was a package of bills that have been stalled out in the state senate. And I’m hoping to kind of carry forward, I don’t want to say we’ve dropped the ball on that, over the last year or two, but I’ll just say this, and I know that, lawyers sometimes get a bad rap, but ten years ago there were ten lawyers in the state senate out of thirty eight. And that number dwindled, if you will, or through attrition down to four. And with that probably comes a lot of lost experience, in our justice system day in and day out. We are a citizen legislature. And so I hope to bring some informed experience with me to the Senate judiciary as not just a lawyer myself, but also someone who has a new day job, dealing with a clientele that, goes in and out of our district court system.
Ian Donnis: Sure, and we’ll talk more about that. Rhode Island faces a tougher budget climate due to how federal COVID aid has run out. We see how despite low employment, Rhode Island lacks engines of new job growth. What should the state do differently to improve its economy?
Jake Bissaillon: I think at the end of the day, when we talk about economic development, I think that, as we return to, and there is going to be a lot of natural attrition in the budget, as you said, just because of federal funds expiring, a lot of times the idea, the natural inclination can be to cut our way down, to running even, but I actually believe in kind of a bottom up approach to economic development. And I think that, I want to make sure that the focus, or at least there’s some attention there. Because I, I have been at the heart of budget negotiations, I can imagine the sort of things that are on the table.
I do want to give the Speaker and the Senate President a tremendous amount of credit. Over the last couple of years, they’ve used that one time money to make one time investments in our state. So I know that the, I’ve seen the Speaker’s comments, I’ve seen the Senate President’s comments. I think they’ve prepared us well for this moment.
I think now we just have to kind of look at it as a holistic document, and not just maybe, okay, how do we roll back the one or two things we’ve done over the last one or two years to get back to zero? I think it’s an opportunity for us to look at it holistically and, I want to make sure that if we’re talking about something like cutting taxes or maybe raising taxes, that we’re doing it in a way that’s truly going to build our economy from the ground up.
Ian Donnis: You are 36 years old and kind of a counter example to what is known as the brain drain in which young people leave Rhode Island. You’re a native of Massachusetts who is settled here in the Ocean State. From your perspective as a young person involved in politics, what do you think the state should do differently to encourage more young people to stay in Rhode Island rather than leaving?
Jake Bissaillon: I think you have to make pipelines to stay here affordable and attractive, right? So for me, it was really just that I had applied for a few internships, and then those led to a few jobs, and that kept me here. I remember when I made the decision to become Chief of Staff, or take the job as Chief of Staff to the City Council in Providence. I was 24. I chose between that or being a fiscal analyst for the State Senate in Massachusetts, their Ways and Means Committee. And there were a few reasons for that. At the time, it was because Providence was a more affordable proposition, than Boston. Living in Boston, the salaries were about comparable.
Right now, we have a workforce that is in crisis, that we need to fill jobs, particularly our care economy: nurses. CNAs, teachers. I think if we can build out pipelines, not only that train those folks up through school, affordable education that’s accessible, but also make it more affordable on the back end once they start working in our public schools, at our hospitals, that that can be an attractive model for them.
And I think as you talk about Rhode Island College and maybe an institution that’s probably trying to regain its footing in some sense. and it’s in the higher ed space. I think that’s a real potential for growth and purpose for that institution.
Ian Donnis: Speaking of affordability, it was opposition from a few senators last year that killed a bill to make it easier to convert accessible dwelling units, also known as granny flats. Do you think it’s any more likely this year that the Senate will pass that bill?
Jake Bissaillon: Yeah, I think it will get a new look, a fresh look. I’ll just say that it wasn’t about conversion. It was about addition, building those ADUs. I think there were some concerns about whether our municipalities at the time could digest all of the changes, in a responsible manner that had been occurring as it related to our land use laws.
I got to give the speaker a lot of credit. He’s an expert when it comes to that and he used the bully pulpit of the speakership to really, I mean, we, we call it affordable housing, but that has a very specific meaning. I’ll call it housing affordability in that crisis in our state at the forefront of, of really all the discussions as it relates to legislation in the upcoming session.
So I think the ADU bill, I know that advocates that, were supporters have met with senators over the summer and in the fall and tried to redress those concerns. I was, at a meeting with the housing network, this morning, on something else and they had mentioned that they had spoken with some members of the Senate Housing Committee and that they believe that they were fruitful discussions Certainly, we’ll have to go through the hearing process.
Ian Donnis: the president of your chamber Dominick Ruggerio, your former boss, says the issue of possibly outlawing semi automatic military style rifles should be handled federally and not by the states. Do you agree or disagree?
Jake Bissaillon: So I disagree with the Senate President’s position on that issue, a position that he has maintained, for a while. And I would just say this because I, it came up again, over the summer. The Senate President deserves a tremendous amount of credit for being a steward of the Rhode Island Senate. Not necessarily a dictator or a tyrant. That is the true model that he embraces. He encourages divergent positions. And at the end of the day, at least in my experience, he’s never let his single view override the will of an informed and conscientious majority as it relates to certain issues. You know, and we could stick to the issue of guns. A lot has happened in the sense of common sense gun control over the past couple of years since he’s become Senate President, red flag laws, which have become in vogue since the Maine tragedy, but certainly something that I worked on has been on the books for about four years now, disarming domestic abusers, high capacity magazines, which was a fight in and of itself to get to the floor, wouldn’t have gotten to the floor without the Senate president’s support.
And I think you’ve seen his reputation that may have preceded him in terms of policy change. Certainly his views as it relates to, to that. His grades from the NRA and certainly his views on abortion.
Ian Donnis: Time is limited, so I’m going to stop you there. As a Democrat, how worried are you that Donald Trump will be elected as the next president in November?
Jake Bissaillon: I’m exceedingly worried. I think that we need a functioning democracy. I think what we saw, during his four years, the vitriol, the demonization of certain marginalized communities did nothing to embrace a vibrant democracy where everyone feels like their voice is at least counted or listened to and they have a seat at the table.
I’m afraid of that. And you know, what I really found distressing too, as 2020 drew to a close in the wake of that election, was really calling into question certain rights that we hold dear in this democracy, voting, that sort of thing and in the Senate here, at least in the state, took under, tremendous direction and, and, and, and a lot of work, the Let RI Vote Act to embrace voting as a concept and make it, make it easier.
Ian Donnis: Do you think Joe Biden is the right choice to lead Democrats into the presidential election? And if so, why has he failed to generate more enthusiasm among democratic voters?
Jake Bissaillon: voters? I think maybe, so first of all I think he’s the right choice, just like in 2016 [sic] I thought he was the perfect choice to defeat then President Donald Trump.
I think what you see as a result of maybe some, we’ll call it voter fatigue, is really just the rematch, right? I think at the end of the day it’s probably inescapable, Donald Trump versus Joe Biden yet again. I think. John Q Public, Jane Q Public, a lot of times they see that and they say, well, you know, it’s just the status quo again. It’s the same two people, but what choice do I really have? And so that’s why the vitriol, the demonization, if you will, that President Trump did such substantial damage because people felt like their role in the process really didn’t matter. And so when you do that, you lose diversity of choice. And so I think sometimes you see voter fatigues because of lack of diversity of choice.
Ian Donnis: All right we’ve got to leave it there. Thank you for joining us. State Senator Jake Bissaillon of Providence.
Jake Bissaillon: Thank you very much, Ian.
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Rhode Island is returning to a familiar budget climate characterized by demands outstripping available cash. That’s why House Speaker Joe Shekarchi is trying to dampen expectations about the state’s ability to fund new initiatives. In recent years, a gusher of federal COVID enabled Rhode Island to have consecutive budget surpluses. That followed decades of annual deficits. Now, more red ink looms on the horizon, as elected officials return to the challenge of trying to build a more robust economy.
You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and the publics radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
RI Secretary of State Gregg AmoreIan Donnis: Welcome back to the Public’s Radio.
Gregg Amore: Thank you.
Ian Donnis: In addition to being Secretary of State, you are a resident of East Providence who commutes to your job at the Statehouse. What has your experience been like with the nightmare this week of traffic caused by the partial closing of the Washington Bridge?
Gregg Amore: I think similar to my fellow townies, it’s, it’s been a struggle, but you know, I’m fortunate, I can be where I have to be, at a certain time, and, there’s not a lot of pressure on me.
I feel for the folks who are hourly workers, who need to be at a place at a certain time, they need to get their kids to school, that’s kind of who I’m, I’m really concerned about. But it’s been about a 45 minute to an hour ride, which it normally takes me about eight minutes.
Ian Donnis: Governor McKee and DOT Director Peter Alviti say the situation could not have been avoided. They say a catastrophe was avoided, thankfully, and that an inspection in July did not reveal the damage that led to the closing of the bridge. Are you satisfied by their explanation?
Gregg Amore: I’m not a structural engineer, so I’m satisfied by what I’ve heard, and I know they’re focused on the repairs and the adjustments and the new lane on 195 East. I think there will be time, and I’m hearing of calls for oversight hearings, there’ll be time to look at this and the whole process and determine whether or not we could have done better, but right now I think the focus should be on making sure we repair the bridge and get the other artery moving as quickly as possible.
Ian Donnis: Well, let’s switch gears to talk about some issues more related to your work as Secretary of State. The Voting Rights Act, passed in 1965, is one of the hallmarks of the civil rights movement. An unexpected U. S. Supreme Court ruling this year upheld a key part of the Voting Rights Act, but some observers say it remains under siege. Do you agree? And if so, what are the implications for those of us here in Rhode Island?
Gregg Amore: I do agree, that, that there’s a serious, whittling away of the, impact of the Voting Rights Act. And just recently, court decided that suits could only be filed by government entities in certain states, not, not across the board, rather than, let’s say, the ACLU or a civil rights organization. Which has so often been the case. You know, I think Rhode Island has done a very good job of providing strong access to the ballot and we’ve improved that, over the course of the last few years. So I don’t think there’s an impact on Rhode Island, but there could be, you know, Things change, times change, political parties change, and so I’m concerned because I think the Voting Rights Act was, was essential to make sure, that Americans could fairly access the ballot, no matter their zip code, no matter their, race or ethnicity.
Ian Donnis: Here in Rhode Island, the most high profile voting issue this year was the signature gathering controversy that undermined Sabina Matos’s campaign in the 1st Congressional District. What are your main takeaways from that episode?
Gregg Amore: So I think it was a good lesson for all of us who gather signatures to access the ballot, to make sure that our campaigns are well informed of the process and that we take a little more responsibility, centrally through the campaign. But our office is prepared to introduce legislation this session that will tighten up that process and that will specifically give the Board of Elections the ability to react in real time when they encounter an irregularity or fraud or, something like, what happened with the Matos, signatures. It’ll also allow them to be in constant communication. It will actually force them to be in constant communication with the local boards of canvassers so that the information is flowing freely and everybody is aware that a situation has occurred.
Ian Donnis: The Board of Elections, when this issue was happening, decided not to subpoena the campaign workers who had gathered the questionable signatures. Was that the right move in your view?
Gregg Amore: Yeah, I think an attorney general’s investigation is ongoing and, and I think we should let that play out and, and see what that produces. You know, I was more concerned that the board didn’t react, in real time, when they could have in regard to the challenges that Don Carlson had identified. I think they could have done that. I came out, I believe I said that to you. I came out early and said, They have the ability under law to do this review immediately. They chose not to. I think they regretted that. And eventually they did do the review.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here in mid December with a little bit less than a year until the next presidential election. Donald Trump has a commanding lead on the GOP side and he keeps spreading misinformation and lies about the 2020 election. What is your perspective as a Democrat with some bipartisan responsibility on voting and elections about why so many Americans believe him on these kind of outright distortions and lies.
Gregg Amore: I think historically we have always seen questions about certain elections. What we have not seen is these questions, this skepticism, this outright lie coming from the very top of the political food chain. And that’s significant. President Trump has a great number of followers. He received a great number of votes. He has a bully pulpit. He has a platform to talk about this all the time. We’ve never really seen that before in American history. You could go back to Gore v. Bush. You know, Al Gore, had a case and he followed that case through the court system. he followed every avenue he could and then he conceded. And I think this is one of the most dangerous things, for the survival of our democracy, that a major political figure is questioning what has been declared by his own administration, his own appointees, as the most secure election in American history.
Ian Donnis: Well, to dig down on that a little bit more, if trust in elections can be eroded to the point where millions of people don’t have confidence in just a couple of years, how do we as a country come back from that?
Gregg Amore: Yeah, I think it’s about folks like me making sure we get the messaging out. And the National Association of Secretaries of State has really engaged in a program to make sure that citizens know where they can get good information and we’re seeking them to come to us so that we can share that good information.
On a local level, we are engaged, and we will be right up until election day in 2024, in an election integrity, open house, so to speak, town hall. We’ve, visited Exeter, Coventry, and East Providence thus far, and we’re asking folks to come. It’s been well attended in all three locations, and give us their concerns.
And we explain that we bring with us Rob Rock, and our elections director, Kathy Placencia, and we explain down to the most minute detail. how the process works. I think when people hear from a human being, not social media, not one of their cable news networks, when they hear from a human being who is on the front lines, they have a tendency at least to think and question what they assume to be true.
Ian Donnis: You’re continuing an effort started by your predecessor, Nelly Gorbea, to create a new state archive to house and display the treasures of colonial history in Rhode Island. The good news is that there’s a lot of support. People like this idea. Governor McKee has indicated some support. The hard part is coming up with the money to pay for it. What do you say to that?
Gregg Amore: Sure. We know that, and the Governor and I have had these discussions, as well as the Speaker of the House and the Senate President and I. We know that this will take an all hands on deck approach. We’re going to need federal support in the way of some sort of grant. We’re going to need capital, funding. We’re going to need to ask the people of Rhode Island to vote for a bond. and then we’re going to need some philanthropic help. So we know that. but if we can get the state to commit to a bulk of that funding, maybe more than half of what we project the total cost, I think we’re in a good position to access federal funding and then, raise dollars to support this.
I say this all the time because it’s true, you know, there’s a practical need for this. We have about 15 percent of these treasures that are being stored, not according to best practices. And so we’ve had a great discussion about maintenance and preservation over the course of the last few days. The same applies to these documents, which are irreplaceable. And we should be storing them according to best practices. And more importantly, we should, or as importantly, we should have Rhode Islanders and others be able to access these in a museum setting.
Ian Donnis: Beyond what you said earlier about the state board of elections, what is top of mind for you for your legislative agenda in 2024?
Gregg Amore: Yeah well, I mentioned the first agenda item, but we are also pushing again for same day voter registration. We think that’s important. That’s another way for folks to access the ballot who may just happen to have moved in within that 30 day span and are unable to vote. That would require a constitutional change.
Ian Donnis: Quick question on that. I understand the argument in support. Some people say that could be subject to manipulation, that if a candidate tries to register a lot of voters at the last minute, what do you say to that argument?
Gregg Amore: Well, I think the same people that are making that argument are also folks who are making the argument for voter ID, which is fine.But this assures voter ID. You cannot register and vote under a same day voter registration process unless you’re presenting proof of your residency and, and a photo ID. So, you know, people can register voters at any time, they could register them on day 31, but, but this is an opportunity. And I always think of the person who has just become an American citizen. They’ve done everything they’re supposed to do over the course of five or seven years, law abiding and they become an American citizen, this great responsibility that they have now to vote as an American citizen. They’ve been residents here for beyond, four or five years, certainly beyond 30 days.
And that may, that may happen on October 25th and they can’t vote. And I, and I think we should, we should be accommodating folks who are just getting engaged. Even if that is right before the election, we should be accommodating them and always err on the side of enfranchisement.
Ian Donnis: Are you committed to running for reelection as secretary of state in 2026?
Gregg Amore: Yes.
Ian Donnis: You are a Democrat, but as I said earlier, you have some bipartisan responsibilities around voting in Rhode Island. I’m sure you’ve noticed the struggles of Republicans in Rhode Island and Massachusetts. They’ve really bogged down in recent years. What is your observation about what the GOP needs to do differently to, to help have a more competitive two party system?
Gregg Amore: Well, I can speak to Rhode Island, because I know Rhode Island better. And I think, Gerry Leonard is a good example of the type of candidate that Republicans should start to put forward in Rhode Island. And so you and I would call those old New England Republicans or Chafee Republicans.The national playbook does not work here in Rhode Island for Republicans. And what, what has happened is Republicans in Rhode Island, and many of my former colleagues in the General Assembly don’t fit this bill, but Republicans in Rhode Island have kind of taken on the talking points, of the national party. And that really is not a recipe for success in Rhode Island. Look, we’re, we’re so much better off with a strong two party system, both nationally and here in Rhode Island, it creates a better democracy, more debate, more competitive elections, that’s healthy, but, but I would say that the Republican Party needs to shift back toward the center, and back toward its New England, Republican roots.
Ian Donnis: Rhode Island Secretary of State Greg Amore, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Ian.
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December is typically a slower time for the news. But the mess with the Washington Bridge loomed over Rhode Island in the run-up to the holidays. Governor Dan McKee staked out a visible place in the news in the days after news broke about the bridge closing. But the governor was initially out of sight, and he got testy later when asked by a reporter about whether changes are needed at the state transportation agency. This week offered a window on how McKee pursues his job in the midst of a crisis. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and the publics radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer isJames Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis …. and I’m taking time off over the next two weeks, so this is our last Political Roundtable of 2023. I want to wish all our listeners a happy holiday season and to thank you for tuning in. I’ll see you on the radio in 2024.
Jessica de la Cruz is one of the most high-profile Republicans in the state and she’s flirted with the idea of running for higher office. But the landscape for Republicans is pretty bleak here. The last Republican governor to win office was Don Carcieri in 2006. A GOP candidate has not won any of the four other state general offices since 1994. And Republicans hold just 14 of 113 seats in the General Assembly. What does de la Cruz make of all this? Is Donald Trump damaging efforts to build the GOP in places like Rhode Island? And does de la Cruz plan to seek higher office in the next state general election in 2026? This week, Ian Donnis goes in-depth with the Republican leader in the Rhode Island Senate, Jessica de la Cruz.
Editor’s note: This story has been updated to remove a quote from Senator de la Cruz in which she stated that Vice President Harris had called President Biden a “racist” before she accepted the Vice Presidential selection. AP fact checkers found that claim to be untrue.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to the Public’s Radio.
Jessica de la Cruz: Thanks for having me. I appreciate you.
Ian Donnis: We’ll concentrate on Rhode Island in our discussion, but a couple of questions about the war in Israel. Off the bat, the Republican caucus in the Senate put out a statement expressing support for Israel after the attack on October 7th. As a supporter of Israel, I wondered, do you believe that the Israeli military and government is playing into Hamas’s hands by killing and displacing a disproportionate number of Palestinian citizens?
Jessica de la Cruz: That’s a great question, and it’s one that we get a lot, but I think that time has shown that Israel warns the Palestinians, you know, we’re going to be attacking and we encourage you to leave the area. And many times Hamas will not allow Palestinians to leave using them as human shields. And that’s the unfortunate thing about war. But to my knowledge, I believe it’s widespread and well known that Israel does give time for those individuals to seek shelter.
Ian Donnis: Let’s bring it back to Rhode Island. You’re one of the bright spots for Rhode Island Republicans. At the same time, a Republican candidate for governor has not won that office since Don Carcieri in 2006.
Republicans only hold 14 seats of 113 in the legislature. So what do Republicans need to do differently to enjoy more political success in Rhode Island?
Jessica de la Cruz: Well, I, there’s a lot of things I think that, that we could do. You know, first when you look at, if you and I were to look at a map of the state and how it’s comprised, we know that there are districts that are so difficult to capture that you would probably call them impossible. I’m not a person to say impossible, but I would say very close to impossible. But then there are districts in which we can win that have very popular incumbents and whenever I tell candidates that are running for office they’re an incumbent for a reason people like them. And so those seats, once they become open seats, and those individuals retire, I think those are good opportunities for us to try to capture those seats, and I think Johnston is one of them. Johnston voted for Trump twice, so can a Republican win in Johnston? Absolutely.
We saw, Gerry Leonard win Woonsocket. Is that a possible pickup for us? It’s definitely, certainly a possibility. And it doesn’t necessarily only come down to a quality of candidate because we do need quality candidates. And I would argue that we have had quality candidates, but when it comes to the legislature, are those candidates willing to give up their summer to knock on doors and wear out shoe leather? Because if they’re not, then they’re not going to win.
Ian Donnis: Back in the 80s and 90s, Republicans won more statewide offices in Rhode Island.The party was more moderate at the time. Does that show that Republicans in Rhode Island need to be more moderate to win more offices?
Jessica de la Cruz: I think that Republicans in Rhode Island as a whole tend to be more moderate.
If I were in a different state, I think, people would question, you know, how Republican am I. But here in Rhode Island, they may say, well, she’s right wing, so, I just have to stay true to who I am, and that’s what I tell candidates. Do not be fake. Do not put on pretenses. People can see through it. Just be yourself, be honest, and be a person of integrity.
Ian Donnis: Last year, Ashley Kalus was the Republican candidate for governor, and it seemed a disadvantage for her that she’d been a Rhode Island resident for just a short time and got a kind of late start. As we move closer to 2026, what are Republicans doing to strengthen their chances of regaining the governor’s office?
Jessica de la Cruz: For me, I think the biggest – the focus for us should be the legislature. People say to me all the time, well, you, you should run for governor or we should do, and you know, and I say to them, constitutionally speaking, the governor in Rhode Island is one of the weakest in the nation and where the power lies is in the legislature.
So until we have more Republicans in the legislature to support that governor in their initiatives, we are doing a Republican governor, a huge disservice because most people will look at the governorship and say, things are going wrong in the states, the governor’s fault, when really, in fact, the fault lies with the legislature.
So until we can fix that, I would put more emphasis on the General Assembly than the governorship.
Ian Donnis: Notwithstanding your accurate observation about the power of the General Assembly, are you open to looking at a run for statewide office in 2026?
Jessica de la Cruz: No, I’m going to be a state senator. I’m going to run for state senate. If I have an opponent, then obviously, I will take that opponent very seriously. As I tell all candidates, take your opponent seriously. And yeah, so I plan on being a state senator.
Ian Donnis: The 800 pound gorilla who we have not yet mentioned is Donald Trump. He is dominating the Republican conversation, has been for years. Do you think he has had a negative effect for Republicans in Rhode Island as far as trying to win office?
Jessica de la Cruz: Yeah, I would say so. I mean, 2018 was a really tough year for Republicans. I won that year. I actually outperformed Trump in my district. but I think it hurt Republicans in 18 and in 20 and 22. But what I remind people and one of the things that I did at the door when people would ask me about national politics is I want you to make a decision based on who I am because I’m not running for president. I’m running for state Senate. This is what I believe. This is who I am. And I asked voters to give me a chance and they did. So, I would tell candidates to pivot, you know, ask voters to inquire about the candidate themselves. What is their platform? What do they believe? Because, you know, quick little, little rabbit trail here is I put a lot of emphasis when I was younger on the national elections. And it wasn’t until I had kids that I realized that my state government has more say in my life than the President of the United States. Now, he’s, that person is a powerful person and obviously, with policy and national policy. But when it comes to taxation, to education, infrastructure, the General Assembly has more say in my life than the president of the United States. So we need to pay attention to local politics just as more, if not more than the presidential election.
Ian Donnis: There is a presidential race approaching next year. Who is your preferred candidate?
Jessica de la Cruz: My preferred candidate will be the Republican nominee.
Ian Donnis: Let me ask you this about Donald Trump. critics have a lot of material to work with. They cite recently how he called his political opponents vermin and said immigration is, quote, poisoning the blood, unquote, of the U.S. Is there anything he could do that would disqualify him in your view as a candidate.
Jessica de la Cruz: Well, I don’t get to decide. The people of the United States decide whether or not he’ll be on the ballot. Unfortunately with politics, it’s pretty nasty and it’s one of the reasons why I didn’t want to get involved and, Representative Sherry Roberts of the House said, yeah, it’s all those things.It’s dirty, it’s gross, it’s nasty, but, unfortunately, in order to make change, we need to get involved. And so, a lot of times there’s a lot of hyperbolic talk. … So I find those things disturbing. I certainly would not engage in that. But, again: Voters will have to decide.
Ian Donnis: Liz Cheney is no liberal and she’s been among the people who’ve been raising a flag about Donald Trump’s campaign saying that in her view he would seriously erode the rule of law in America if elected. Is that a real concern in your view?
Jessica de la Cruz: Again, that’s up to the American people. They’re going to decide. They have plenty of candidates in front of them, and they’re going to choose who they believe will best represent them.
Ian Donnis: One top issue of concern for you has been the Zambrano campus of Eleanor Slater hospital. It sounds like things are on a much better keel there than a few years ago. What is your update on how things are going there?
Jessica de la Cruz: Well, I do talk to the administration, the hospital administration that is, once a month we have a standing meeting and to, to talk about the timeline of the hospital, you know, when are they going to break ground? What, what studies are they doing? Feasibility studies right now. And hopefully, I mean, I’m not very enthused about the timeline, but the timeline is the timeline. So, if we can move it up and move it, you know, along a little bit quicker, that’d be great. But I certainly don’t want to, you know, sabotage any of their efforts by by doing something calling for a quicker process and then having something go wrong in the midst of that so I’m happy with the progress. I just wish it was a little bit quicker, but You know, it is what it is.
Ian Donnis: AR-style weapons were initially created for the military. Critics cite that in arguing that they should not be in the hands of civilians. Gun rights supporters, like yourself, believe the Second Amendment protects the legal use of such weapons. But if a weapon of war is legal, where does one draw the line? Should other weapons – should citizens be able to legally possess other weapons of war?
Jessica de la Cruz: Yeah, that’s a great question. so an AR is not a weapon of war. Our military would certainly never use that in a military combat. And when we’re talking about military style weapons, it’s different from if we’re talking about a style of weapon as opposed to the actual weapon.
Something can look scary and not be as powerful as the military arms that our military uses. And, you know, in committee, I’ll point to the legislation that was submitted to ban quote unquote, assault weapons. That legislation would effectively ban almost every firearm in production, meaning that there would be very few, I would say 95 percentage and up of firearms that would be illegal in Rhode Island. And that is semi-automatic handguns would be legal. You would be able to own a revolver, a pump action, a shotgun, or a bolt action shotgun. But most of the firearms – Illegal in Rhode Island if we pass that legislation. So it really comes down to definition. And, one last thing and then we’ll move on to whatever, other questions you have for me. But a lot of times when people come before me, a committee, I would ask them, you’re supporting this legislation. Can you define for me what an assault weapon is? And can you define, explain to me what the legislation says, and nine times out of ten. They had no idea what the legislation did, and they could not define an assault weapon. That’s, that’s scary.
Ian Donnis: The new legislative session starts January 2nd. What are your top priorities?
Jessica de la Cruz: My top priorities are going to be education, the economy, and the environment. But, for me, education is first and foremost. I’m a mom of three. Education, is the pathway to a bright future and a lot of times what we’re seeing is students are graduating and they’re not able to read, They’re not able to do math, and that is going to severely impact how they’re able to provide for themselves, their family, their physical health, and even our economic health as a state, and so, we see with the RICAS scores that all but one school, one school, had 70 percent proficiency in ELA. Every other school was below that, and Central Falls was NR, not rated, because the numbers were so low that if we did provide the data, it would identify the students that were proficient. And because of privacy reasons, we don’t want students to be outed in that fashion. So what we need to do is something totally different, radically different, and if that comes down to school choice for students and failing schools, That needs to be an option.
One of the other options I just came about through a Senate committee commission hearing was innovation zones. So schools that are failing, have them apply to become an innovation school where all rules are out the window and they can be as innovative as they want to be.
Ian Donnis: Jessica de la Cruz, a Republican leader in the Rhode Island Senate. Thank you so much for joining us.
Jessica de la Cruz: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
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Governor McKee’s most recent nominee to the state Ethics Commission stepped down last week after news reports about questionable behavior. The panel was created by Rhode Islanders in 1986 to be one of the strongest such bodies in the U.S. But competing views about the Ethics Commission’s mission led to a meltdown about 20 years ago. It’s no surprise that a panel charged with policing ethics complaints in Rhode Island inspires cheers and some jeers. But compared to the situation two decades ago, the commission has been on a far better footing for years. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and the publics radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producers are James Baumgartner and Mareva Lindo.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha is closing 2023 much as he began the year – with a higher profile thanks to his frequent missives on X, formerly known as Twitter. Neronha shifted into a higher gear on the social messaging platform early in the year, with comments on topics ranging from gun violence and the state’s healthcare landscape to the fortunes of local sports teams. The state’s top prosecutor says his tweets are a way of communicating about his job and how he pursues it. More recently, Neronha ran afoul of a Superior Court judge with a tweet criticizing one aspect of the court process. And all this comes as Neronha is contemplating a possible run for governor in 2026. Is this an early version of campaigning? Does Neronha think the state is moving with enough urgency to address key issues? And will he sail off after his term as AG is done or pursue another course?
The Public’s Radio · Rhode Island AG Peter Neronha On Healthcare, Gun Violence, And A Possible Gubernatorial RunIan Donnis: Attorney General Peter Neronha, welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Peter Neronha: Thank you.
Donnis: There’s a lot of uncertainty right now about the future of Roger Williams Medical Center in Providence and Our Lady of Fatima Hospital in North Providence. You’re focused on trying to keep the hospitals funded and operating. Is there anything that can be done to solidify their future for the long term?
Neronha: Yeah, there are. I think both the short term – in the near term need to be talked about. So short term, we are leveraging the money that we have in a bank account that I control to make sure they keep these hospitals operating in the near term and delivering for Rhode Islanders long term. All of health care in Rhode Island needs to be stabilized. It’s not an issue that is unique to these hospitals. They are, in a sense, a canary in a coal mine … Their owners don’t, in my view, care about health care. And that’s why we’re in this position long term for those hospitals and across healthcare in Rhode Island. We’ve got to do three things: we’ve got to fix our Medicaid reimbursements; we’ve got to fix our Medicare reimbursements, both of which lag other states; and we also have to focus on our commercial reimbursements. We need to bring in efficiencies. We really need to make sure our management is top notch. Because we’re so disadvantaged relative to our peers. And we know that, if a hospital closes, there’s an impact on other hospitals. And all of this needs to be thought through. We’re trying to do that in the office. I do think there’s a vacuum elsewhere in state government on that. That’s unfortunate. We’re doing everything we can to try to fill it.
Donnis: You’ve been ringing this alarm about the need for a long term strategy in Rhode Island on healthcare and hospitals for a few years now. Has there been any incremental progress beyond the attempt of your office to focus on some of these issues?
Neronha: Candidly, and I haven’t even, I haven’t seen it. Healthcare executives from Rhode Island are consistently coming to my office to strategize and talk. They recognize, I think, that any plan that’s going to be able to be implemented is going to have to come from my office in the next couple of years. And so we’re working hard to do that. One of the first components of it is, frankly, a reorganization, a proposed reorganization I have. I don’t have the ability to do it on my own, of how we regulate healthcare in Rhode Island, we’re siloedc… We can leverage more federal dollars. But we have to make sure that that Medicaid office is doing that. OHIC is in one place.
Donnis: Office of the Health Insurance Commissioner.
Neronha: They have caps on how much hospitals can be reimbursed. So they’re in another place. Health is in another place. And so we think certainly regulatory restructuring would be, is needed. But we also think all the other things already mentioned need to be on the table and addressed and focused on and fixed to get Rhode Island to a place where healthcare overall can thrive.
Donnis: We see how the owner of Roger Williams Medical Center and Our Lady of Fatima is Prospect Medical Holdings, a California based company, used to be partially owned by a private equity firm. And Prospect, as you say, seems more interested in making money than delivering healthcare. Does this show that there should be more regulation or perhaps even a prohibition on private equity working in the healthcare sphere?
Neronha: Oh, absolutely. You know, and it’s not just that they’re more interested in making money today. The trouble for our hospitals owned by Prospect and owned by hospitals owned by Prospect, even in neighboring Connecticut, is that Prospect has already made its money. And so once they’ve made their money, they don’t care about these hospitals anymore. You go across the border in Connecticut, there are three Prospect hospitals that are being sold to Yale – New Haven. Their financial condition is so bad that Yale – New Haven won’t buy them any longer unless there’s an $80 million infusion of cash from the state.
Donnis: So what should be done from a regulatory perspective?
Neronha: Look, private equity shouldn’t be allowed into the tent in the first place. You know, it was a mistake. But that does not necessarily criticism of that decision then. But what we know today is private equity needs to be kept out of healthcare; private equity doesn’t care about health care. They care about making money.
Donnis: How do you do that legally?
Neronha: In Rhode Island, at least I have the ability, the Department of Health has the ability, to block new owners of our healthcare systems, if we don’t think it’s best for Rhode Islanders writ large. There are standards for sure. But that’s the overall standard. And based on what I’ve learned from the Prospect experience, the possibility of me being convinced that a private equity ownership of a Rhode Island healthcare system would be good for Rhode Islanders is zero.
Donnis: Let’s switch gears – a Superior Court Judge Daniel Procaccini wants you to appear in his courtroom on December 5. You’ve been tweeting a lot this year, and he didn’t like one of your tweets that seem to contain some veiled criticism of him. Do you plan to go to that?
Neronha: Let’s back up for a minute. I have a lot of respect for Judge Procaccini. I’ve known him for a very long time. I do believe that inherent in our system of justice in Rhode Island is a weakness. And that’s the lack of a necessity that the prosecution agree to a jury-waived trial. That’s not a knock on any particular judge. It’s not a comment on any particular case.
Donnis: You did make a tweet about how there was, these cases seem to be happening more frequently in one particular court.
Neronha: In some particular courts, and that’s what I was going to get to. We know from our statistics, over the last decade, that two judges have done 49% of the jury-waived trials and 25 judges have done the other 51%. So here’s my point. It’s not that those judges are doing anything wrong. It’s not that those judges don’t have integrity. They do. They do. And I’ve known them for a long time. But I believe that for victims and the public, if nothing else, the appearance of a level playing field in terms of consent to a jury-waived trial ought to be that the state consents as well, and that’s true in 31 other states and in the federal system. And so that’s what I was advocating for. And let me just finish. If the public or Judge Procaccini interpreted my comments differently, then I regret that. But I don’t regret making the point, because I think it is a fair one for me to make, as the leader of my office.
Donnis: Are you going to go to the court to meet with Judge Procaccini on December 5?
Neronha: I don’t know. You know, the truth is, I am not convinced that he has the authority to summons me there for the purpose that appears to be what he’s articulated. So we’ll see how that plays out. But look, I don’t want to make this about Judge Procaccini and me. For me, it’s a policy point that I think needs to be addressed and will be addressed in the General Assembly. And that does not take away anything about my respect for Judge Procaccini or his integrity.
Donnis: You are contemplating a possible run for governor in 2026. What is your criteria on whether you will pull a trigger on that?
Neronha: Yeah, look, I think, you know, I answered that question. I’ll be concise. Ed Fitzpatrick asked me that question. Because I had said a couple years ago, I’ll never run, what has changed my outlook, why is it a possibility for me, and I don’t know whether I’m going to run or not. Healthcare is a burning issue that I won’t leave office with without doing everything I can to fix it. Climate change is another one. Those are two issues that are critical to people, the state of Rhode Island. And if I don’t feel like those issues are resolved by the time I leave office as Attorney General, it may be that I choose to try to serve the public going forward as well.
Donnis: Who did you vote for for governor last year?
Neronha: I don’t want to answer that question. You know, there’s no, I don’t think anything is gained by answering that question. I do think, though, that if I were not to run, then a candidate that I supported next time around would have to be one that I thought could address these issues in a way that would benefit the people in the state.
Donnis: We see how violent crime has trended down generally in America since the early 1990s. But on the other hand, there seems to be an uptick in civil violence. When we look at things like January 6, the attack on Paul Pelosi, the shooting of three Palestinian young men in Vermont earlier this week. As the state’s top prosecutor, I know you’re concerned about the proliferation of ghost guns, which is a whole separate nightmare. But how do we come back from this issue of civil violence?
Neronha: Look, whether that civil violence is driven by behavioral health or mental health issues or not, the truth is you can only keep a gun out of the hands of somebody, someone with a mental health issue, if they have been institutionalized against their will. Other than that circumstance, they can buy a firearm. So it’s … we can’t control for mental health in a way to avoid these most critical and dangerous incidents. What we need to do is reduce the number of guns that are available to people that would use them to harm others. And that’s some of the work we’ve been doing in the office since I started, and we just need to keep doing it.
Donnis: You and other state officials have supported legislation to outlaw the sale of new AR style rifles. Critics say these weapons were developed for the military and should not be in civilian hands. Is there a legal rationale for backing that up? Or do gun rights people have it right that the Second Amendment gives citizens the ability to – the legal ability to own and possess, and legally use these weapons?
Neronha: Well, look, I think the law, and from my perspective, the Constitution, does not reserve that right to them. And in fact, we had an assault weapons ban when I was a federal prosecutor on the line back in the 2000s. So I don’t recall if it was challenged, and if it was, then it wasn’t an issue before whatever courts were hearing it back then. Look, I think we made tremendous steps to getting high capacity magazines out of the hands, to the extent we can, of those who would use them. Those weapons, there’s no question, allow for more rapid fire with more lethal rounds in most instances. And so they cause more damage. You only have to talk to an ER doctor in a trauma center to know that, or another health care provider and in an ER setting. And so, look, to the extent we can get those firearms out of the hands of people, that’s obviously from my perspective, the thing we ought to do. It’s not gonna solve the whole problem. But it’s part of the solution.
Donnis: The Providence Journal’s Antonia Farzan reported this week on how you and Governor McKee are on the same page in opposing the release of identifying information about who has low number license plates in Rhode Island. You and the governor have had a bit of a frosty relationship. Why does the public not have a right to have this information?
Neronha: Well, the first thing I want to say is that the decisions we make in the office don’t depend on the strength of my relationship with the governor. It doesn’t, in a vacuum, but also because I have people that are responsible for these issues. The bottom line is this is that we make decisions about the APRA based on the law.
Donnis: APRA being the state’s Access to Public Records Act.
Neronha: Yes. Thanks, Ian. But the fact that we may say that the APRA, the law doesn’t require disclosure, doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be disclosed. Now, there is a federal statute involved here, which makes this a little bit different. And I won’t get into the details on that. But, you know, whether the governor – even if he could withhold them under the law, as we found, it may not mean that he has to. But that’s a decision for him and his administration and not for me.
Donnis: We’ve got to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining us, Attorney General Peter Neronha.
Neronha: Thank you.
The I-195 District now includes new housing, a Trader Joe’s, and the Wexford Science and Technology building. But realizing the initial vision of sparking innovation and more high-wage jobs has been a challenge. It’s not any easier now in the climate of inflation and high interest rates. So can Crisafulli foster more progress while approaching his second year of chairing the I-195 District Commission? What are the main barriers, and how can they be overcome? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with chairman of the I-195 District Redevelopment Commission Marc Crisafulli.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Marc Crisafulli: Hello. Thank you for having me.
Ian Donnis: Is the current atmosphere of higher interest rates chilling the climate for development in the 195 district?
Marc Crisafulli: So it’s a real challenge and when you look at not only higher interest rates, but construction costs and supply chain issues It’s putting pressure on our projects. So far, everything is proceeding. But we can see the effect it’s having on our development partners, and we just hope it doesn’t actually lead to anything being canceled.
Ian Donnis: Back around 2011, then Governor Lincoln Chafee referred to the vision for the 195 district as being Meds and Eds, the idea that it would help to spark high wage jobs and innovative jobs. Over time, it seems like the emphasis has mostly been on housing developments, and housing is certainly an important issue in Rhode Island, but why has there not been more commercial development?
Marc Crisafulli: I think actually we’re making a lot of progress in the life sciences center right now when you think about what we’re trying to do there. So at the CIC building, there’s 60,000 square feet of lab space being developed there that will open early next year. And we’re in the ground already on a 210,000 square foot lab building that includes the state department of health and some lab space for Brown plus another hundred thousand square feet of space available for spec. So there’s a lot happening on the commercial front there. We intend to be the center of the life sciences development in the state. We actually need to create about a thousand jobs right now to absorb all of the capacity that’s already being built. But you’re right, residential is important. There is a housing crisis and that’s what there’s demand for. So we build that.
Ian Donnis: Has the recent start of construction on the state lab led to any new possibilities as far as other commercial developments or prospects in the life sciences field?
Marc Crisafulli: Yeah, we’ve been having discussions with another lab developer on a parcel behind the state lab, which is called Parcel 27.
But I think what we’ll do right now is pause on that and let this lab start to absorb the capacity. But we want to keep that lot available for future development in the life sciences space.
Ian Donnis: How does the total value of sales by the 195 District Commission compare with the ongoing debt service for public bonds used to finance the original purchase of the land from DOT?
Marc Crisafulli: So that’s something that really gets managed by the State Department and, you know, we, we pay attention to what they’re doing, but that’s something that they’re handling and I actually think there’s going to be some developments on that shortly.
Ian Donnis: It took many years for the whole drama to play out featuring the proposal for the Fane skyscraper residential proposal. Turns out the developer walked away. That took many years. Was that a squander in your view? Did that impede other possibilities from being explored that might have moved forward or not so much?
Marc Crisafulli: No, I don’t think it impeded anything. And I think we got to the right place on that. Look, anyone that’s willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars in the state, we have to take really seriously. I came onto the commission and became chair kind of late in the process, but I helped to try and bring that to a conclusion. And my view was either it needed to get built in a certain time period or we needed to move on. And so I was happy that we moved on. I would have supported it if it was built. We are now reconfiguring that lot so that it’s better suited for non residential use as well. It is a signature parcel for us, Ian, so we’ll have to see what happens with that coming up.
Ian Donnis: That lot is known as parcel 42. You have expressed hope that that could be a commercial development or some other non residential development. You say there are a lot of residential proposals that could go forward right now. How long do you think the commission should wait if, if a commercial proposal does not come forward before deciding the fate of that parcel?
Marc Crisafulli: We’re under no particular hurry to address it. I mean, it’s more important that we do it correctly than we do it quickly. When you look at, you know, districts like this around the country, it takes 20 to 25 years or so to actually get them completed. So we’re about halfway through the process. And I wouldn’t frown upon a residential project going there either if it was the right size and scale and something that really made an impact. But until we have something that we’re excited about. We’re just going to keep, keep talking to people and exploring it and see what happens.
Ian Donnis: You referred earlier to the CIC building that’s also known as the Wexford Innovation Center that was built with $32 million in public subsidies. Back in 2019 when the building opened Gina Raimondo was governor and she expressed a view that that building would become home to thousands of jobs. How has it worked out? Has that prediction come true?
Marc Crisafulli: It is a tremendous success and Ian, I would love to host you there anytime. I’m, I’m, the offices of the 195 commission are in there. It is a hotbed of commercial activity, people working jobs. There are 37 different wind related companies that call it home and it’s just a really exciting place to be. I think it’s met its vision and it’s something that we should really be proud of. We would love to replicate it if we can.
Ian Donnis: What is the total number of jobs in the building?
Marc Crisafulli: I don’t have that number, Ian.
Ian Donnis: Let’s, to switch gears, you are a public speaker about a groundbreaking cell therapy cancer treatment that successfully treated you for stage four lymphoma in 2021 in the aftermath of your cancer diagnosis. How did you find this treatment?
Marc Crisafulli: So I did it through Dana Farber and Rhode Island Hospital here at Lifespan because unfortunately my cancer was chemo resistant, so I went through all the different chemotherapy and there were no options left. Five years ago, I would have had no options, but this treatment is called CAR T-cell and it’s just extraordinary. They pull the T cells out of your body, genetically re-engineer them, and then re-insert them and train them to try and kill the cancer. It works about 40 percent of the time, and a 40 percent success rate for people who had no options is extraordinary. So I was fortunate. It worked for me, and I’ve been in complete remission two years.
Ian Donnis: We’re very happy for your good fortune. How available is that treatment for other people with cancer?
Marc Crisafulli: So it’s a, this is a, it’s a big issue for me personally and one that we have to confront as a society. So in the United States, only one out of five people who would be eligible for, this treatment actually get it. In Europe, it’s almost double that rate because of the way health care is addressed there . It’s very difficult to get this procedure done in Rhode Island. So I had to do it at Dana Farber in Boston. It’s a treatment that should be available for everyone. The company that did my treatment has now treated 18,000 people worldwide So in some respects that’s a big number. But when you think about the global population, that’s an infinitesimal number. So I think you’ll see over the next few years, this become much more prevalent around the country. And that’s certainly something I’m working towards.
Ian Donnis: You are a former senior executive with G-Tech and Twin River Bally’s. So you’ve had a front row seat for the evolution of gambling in Rhode Island and elsewhere. Used to be there was a lot of opposition, but gambling’s become very ubiquitous through sports betting and things like that. Do you think there’s too much gambling in American culture?
Marc Crisafulli: You know, anything to excess is dangerous, but I think in our country, we believe in freedom and allowing people to make their own choices, you know, whether it’s gambling or eating fast foods or drinking or all sorts of things. In moderation, people should be able to make their own choices in an excess, it’s dangerous. I think this is the way a lot of people choose to have their entertainment. And for a baseball guy like you, right, people like to go to the game, sit there for a couple hours, buy some hot dogs, pay for parking. Four hours worth of entertainment. For other people, they like to go to a casino and gamble, or play on their phone, or bet on sports. And that’s their entertainment. As long as it’s in moderation, and it’s not done to excess, I think we should support that.
Ian Donnis: You mentioned phones. There was a sharp debate in the Rhode Island House of Representatives this year about a new phone based app. Critics say that has almost a narcotic-like effect on users to keep them on the app, keep them gambling, perhaps at their own extreme expense. What do you think of that critique?
Marc Crisafulli: So, you know, we’ve heard it before, and like, like anything else, you want to do what you can to be responsible. So gaming in the state is heavily regulated. You know, actually, it’s state operated under the Constitution. Bally’s is the partner of the state of Rhode Island. And I think they’re really careful and thoughtful about how you try and structure it in ways so that it does not contribute to problem gaming. As an aside, Bally’s contributes millions of dollars a year to all sorts of gaming type responsible gaming initiatives to try and make sure people play responsibly.
Ian Donnis: Back in 2019, you said that Brett Smiley, then Governor Raimondo’s chief of staff, had threatened regulatory retaliation against Twin River Bally’s if it continued to oppose a long term contract for another gambling entity. Smiley is obviously now the mayor of Providence. You’re the chairman of the 195 district commission. Have the two of you had a rapprochement since then?
Marc Crisafulli: I think Brett Smiley is a terrific mayor. I think he’s the right choice for the city. I’m really impressed with everything that he’s doing. Our interests in developing the city are aligned and unified. We all want to see economic development. We want to see better lives for the citizens of Providence, and I fully support him as mayor and what he’s doing.
Ian Donnis: Do the two of you speak with each other?
Marc Crisafulli: We have spoken in the past, yes, about 195 issues, and I, I think we have a positive relationship at this water under the bridge.
Ian Donnis: You were in Washington, D. C. for the swearing in recently of the new 1st District Congressman, Gabe Amo. What was your takeaway from that?
Marc Crisafulli: It was an extraordinary moment. I really felt honored to be there and to witness history. He’s just such an impressive man. He’s got such a great future and I think the First District is really lucky to have him as their representative. I was just so enjoyed to participate.
Ian Donnis: You have a lot of experience in business in Rhode Island, I wonder what your view is on why the state has been unable to create new engines of job growth and what would help to move that forward.
Marc Crisafulli: So, you know, there are, it’s not going to be surprising what the challenges are to have a successful business client. You need good tax policy, you need available workforce that’s trained. You need housing, you need education, healthcare, all of those things contribute to whether a company can successfully be located here and can thrive. And I think especially the current administration and the current leadership is working to try and address some of these issues. It’s just, it’s a, it’s a never ending battle to get better and make it more competitive.
Ian Donnis: To come back to the 195 district, what is upcoming that you’re excited about there?
Marc Crisafulli: So right now we have an RFP that we issued for parcel 1A, it’s a little sliver along the east side of the river, currently where Providence Flea operates. And we’re looking to develop that. We received four proposals. We actually heard them last night. Providence Flea has made a proposal to try and stay there on a limited structure, but there are other more traditional developments that have also been proposed. I’m really excited to see how that plays out. Regardless of how it plays out, Providence Flea is a terrific partner for us. They’ve been a partner with us for 10 years. And if they are not the successful proposer on the east side, we have seven acres of parkland on the west side of the river. We’d love to just have them hosted there and continue doing what they do on Sunday mornings.
Ian Donnis: Mark Crisafulli, chairman of the I 195 district redevelopment commission. Thank you so much for joining us.
Marc Crisafulli: Thanks Ian. Always a pleasure.
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Attorney General Peter Neronha has been getting more attention for his shoot-from-the-hip style approach on X, formerly known as Twitter. His topics include the legal process and sports, although one recent tweet raised the ire of a judge. Neronha remains unapologetic about what he sees as a useful form of communication. So is this mostly about his approach to being the state’s top prosecutor, warm-up for a gubernatorial run, or something else? For more on that, read my TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on X at IanDon, on threads at IanDonnisReports and at the publics radio.org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Rhode Island’s unemployment rate is at a historic low. But that doesn’t come close to telling the whole picture about the state’s economy. Lots of Rhode Islanders are struggling to get by. The situation is exacerbated by inflation, the high cost of housing, and the state’s absence of new engines of job growth. These challenges are familiar to the staff of the Economic Progress Institute, a research and policy organization dedicated to improving the lives of low- and moderate-income Rhode Islanders. What is the institute’s prescription for reducing poverty? Does the state make effective use of the tens of millions it spends each year on social services? And why has there not been more progress on improving the public schools that could help boost kids out of poverty?
Listen to Political Reporter Ian Donnis speak with Economic Progress Institute Executive Director Weayonnoh Nelson-Davies, or read the transcript of this week’s episode of Political Roundtable below.
Ian Donnis: Weayonnoh Nelson-Davies, welcome back to The Public’s Radio.
Weayonnoh Nelson-Davies: Thank you for having me.
Donnis: The Economic Progress Institute champions the idea of economic justice, or to put it another way, of reducing poverty and expanding opportunity. What is the institute’s plan for making progress on these issues over the next year?
Nelson-Davies: Thanks for that question. So we’re now in the process of thinking of what our legislative priorities will be. And we have a couple of arching themes. One is Rhode Islanders are struggling to meet their basic needs. And we also need to think about how are we investing in all public service programs and worker support programs? So a few of our priorities will be addressing those issues. One of our top priorities is payday lending reform. For 13 years, we’ve been advocating for payday lenders not to receive special treatment, making millions of dollars off the backs of poor Rhode Islanders. And so we’ll be back at the Statehouse next year, asking our leaders to not give special treatment and profits where poor Rhode Islanders are paying up to 260% in interest rates when other financial institutions can only charge up to 36%. So that will be a big priority of ours to stop this cycle of debt.
Donnis: The House of Representatives this year voted to scale back payday lending. But the obstacle right now is the Rhode Island Senate, which declined to take up that bill. Senate President Dominick Ruggerio seems like the main obstacle to changing payday lending. What is your strategy for overcoming his opposition?
Nelson-Davies: It was the first time in 13 years where we got on the House floor. And we’ve already started having conversations with the Senate president to ask him what was their concerns? We want to address them. And one of his concerns were: are there alternatives for people to get small loans? There are alternatives; there are credit unions that provide adequate and not predatory alternatives. And so we’ve been addressing that to say the only interest right now is millions for payday lenders versus protecting Rhode Islanders, and we think we’re getting to him. So one of our strategies is to let people know what the industry is, and to make sure we get a vote earlier in the session.
Donnis: What are some of the other priorities in the new legislative session starting in January for the Economic Progress Institute?
Nelson-Davies: So up already for us, it’s increasing the minimum wage, now it’s going to get into $15 an hour by 2025. We’re already behind. People need at least $16.79 [as of last year], so we’ll be pushing for that. Lately, we’ve been talking a lot about the Earned Income Tax Credit. We got a 16% raise thanks to the Speaker of the House and General Assembly. We think that is where we can get some relief for folks. And so we’ll be pushing for that. And then pay day. We already talked about payday lending, and pay leave is another big one for worker justice issues. Right now in the state of Rhode Island, people have to take a 40% pay cut to take leave to take care of themselves and their family. We’re asking to extend that 60% wage replacement to 80 or 90, and to give families at least 12 weeks to take care of them themselves.
Donnis: The state spends a lot of money each year on social services. How would you rate the effectiveness of that spending? Is the state getting a good bang for its buck in terms of helping needy people?
Nelson-Davies: From our perspective, we don’t think they’re spending al lot. We do think there has been some disinvestment in public benefits. For example, our Rhode Island Works program for the last few years, I think since 2009, the state has not put state dollars into the Rhode Island Works program. We’ve been using federal dollars, but people are still at 40% of the poverty level. So that is not enough. Childcare assistance is another one where people are spending at least 33% of their income on childcare. So we do believe there needs to be more investment in childcare assistance program. There have been some investments in housing. And so we’re glad that now we’re paying attention to that. But I think we need to do more in supporting families to get out of poverty and give workers what they need to be able to work.
Donnis: During World War II, the American government offered subsidized child care due to how a lot fewer parents were at home. And now when people talk about government subsidies, subsidized childcare, it seems far short of that. What would it take to bring about a better approach, in your view, for childcare?
Nelson-Davies: I think a couple of things there. We have a shortage of early educators. And so we need to sort of address that shortage, right? We need more people working within the childcare industry, and so we need incentives for that. We also need to be able to realize that because people are not making enough. We need to increase wages. So there’s a connection between wages, but then also the Child Care Assistance program, we need to increase that. And so we’ll be proposing to increase the eligibility level so more Rhode Islanders can be able to take advantage of our Child Care Assistance Program.
Donnis: We see how Governor Dan McKee likes to point to the state’s historically low unemployment rate in arguing that Rhode Island’s economy is doing well. Do you agree with the governor’s assessment on the health of Rhode Island’s economy?
Nelson-Davies: I think we’re on the right path. I do think our leaders have put enough investments for workers, enough investments for housing – and education is a big piece, right, to making sure we can invest in the future of our economy. I do think there are a couple of things we need to think about when we look at the state budget and how we’re investing. One of the things we have to think about is how we generate revenue now. We’re about to lose a lot of the federal money that came in during the pandemic. And so one of the things we hope that a governor and state leaders can consider is how we generate revenue in the state of Rhode Island. We are asking for us to think about taxing the top 1% Rhode Islanders with the highest income. And the reason why is if we do that, we can generate revenue that can be targeted towards education, childcare, and transportation. Last year, when we did our analysis, we found and showed that we could have raised $169 million in revenue that can then go back into our economy and invest in some of the public vital services we need.
Donnis: Our elected officials, including Governor McKee, House Speaker Shekarchi, and Senate President Ruggerio, seem very sensitive to the perception of Rhode Island’s tax climate. They’ve been unwilling to support increases in broad based taxes. How would you encourage them to that concerns about the, perhaps negative perception of tax hike is would be less than the benefit?
Nelson-Davies: So a couple of things are happening, right? So some of the pushback we get is people are gonna leave right out in droves, if we increase taxes. There has been no study. There has been no evidence that any of the state that has increased taxes have lost a good amount of people because of that. So if we look at this scenario, imagine businesses and families who are invested in Rhode Island leaving because now they have to pay a little bit more of taxes. And what we’re comparing is $169 million in revenue, I had high for high doubt that we’re going to lose $169 million. So if you believe in Rhode Island, so the cost benefit analysis is there. The other point is we do not have the federal dollars coming in, we are going to face a deficit. And so if we’re really serious about investment in communities, we have to find out where revenues are. And then when we talk about tax relief, we have to use an equity lens to think about how are we creating tax relief. We were very pleased with the General Assembly and the speaker for not passing the state tax reduction last year, because if you look through an equity lens, that doesn’t really benefit the lowest income Rhode Islanders. So think about tax relief with Earned Income Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit, and also thinking about how we generate revenue.
Donnis: You referred to housing a little bit earlier, and we know housing costs have soared in Rhode Island. The state, after many years, is beginning to try to address its housing crisis and directing more money to create housing and help the homeless. What other steps would you advocate in the short term to help alleviate this problem?
Nelson-Davies: We definitely have a homeless problem. And so now we’re getting closer to the coldest months. So we need to find out to make sure our homeless populations are taken care of. I think we need to think of how are we investing in housing, right? Again, using an equity lens, who are going to get housing, where’s housing gonna be put, is really important. And we need to listen to communities. Who is facing housing crises within the communities? Who are housing burdened? And so we need to pay attention to that and make sure that the decisions we’re making are informed by those communities experiencing a housing crisis.
Donnis: One of the big stories this week was the election of Gabe Amo as the new member of Congress in the first district. He, of course, is the first person of color to represent Rhode Island in Congress. I think you had a tweet, celebrating his election, your thoughts on that?
Nelson-Davies: So on a personal level, congratulations. So our newly elected congressman, as a Liberian American, right, I’m proud of them. I think watching him take his mom to vote for him, who is a Liberian-American herself, was heartwarming for me to see. And so I’m proud of him just representing the Liberian and Ghanaian African communities within Rhode Island. And I’m also looking forward to him. We work very closely with our congressional delegation. And so I’m excited about him representing Rhode Island in Washington. And I’m excited about what we can do together to help him do that.
Donnis: In terms of national politics, the presidential race next year between probably Joe Biden and Donald Trump looks like it could be close. What are your concerns about what it would mean for Rhode Island if a Republican Republican was to regain the White House?
Nelson-Davies: I think for us a few concerns, right? We want to make sure we can invest in Rhode Island. So whether it’s the executive or Congress or the Supreme Court, right, we watch to see what policies are being impacted on the federal level that will impact us here. For example, the congressional delegation now voted to not include child tax credit last year, and we found that the poverty rate of children went from 5% to almost 12%. So my concern, whether it’s the president, or it’s Congress, is to make sure that we’re paying attention to policies that impact every day with dollars, and so I’m concerned about a presidential election, but I’m more concerned with what our leaders are going to do to help us here.
Donnis: Weayonnoh Nelson-Davies, executive director of the Economic Progress Institute, thank you so much for joining us.
Nelson-Davies: Thanks for having me.
Donnis: While Donald Trump is sticking to his false narrative about a stolen election, former two-time candidate for governor Ken Block has a new book, Disproven, outlining why he reached a different conclusion. Block’s company, Simpatico Software Systems, was hired by Trump’s campaign after the 2020 election. You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and thepublicsradio.org. That’s our show for this week. I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Amo is the favorite since the district is overwhelmingly Democratic. The son of African immigrants, Amo grew up in Pawtucket and he’s worked for years as a political staffer in Rhode Island and at the White House. What would it mean to him to become the first person of color elected to Congress from Rhode Island? What does he make of the violence in Israel? And as a former aide to President Biden, how does Amo explain the low approval ratings for the president as he gears up for another campaign with Donald Trump? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with the Democratic nominee in Rhode Island’s First District, Gabe Amo.
Transcript:
Ian Donnis: Voters will choose between you and Republican Gary Leonard on Tuesday What makes you the better choice?
Gabe Amo: Well, I am so excited to be a candidate and honored to be a candidate for congress here in the first congressional district And as i’ve shared with folks in the past, I have humble roots.
I’m the son of Pawtucket and the shared Rhode Island values that we have of grit, resilience, determination that I’ve had in my life when driven by my parents. And also the experience that I’ve had at the federal level working for two presidents gives me an opportunity to work hard for people of this district and also make sure that we are not sending someone to Congress who is going to be part of the caucus of chaos and be part of that house, a Republican majority that is frankly not aligned with what people want in the first district
Ian Donnis: If you win, you will be the first person of color to represent Rhode Island in Congress. What would that mean to you on a personal level?
Gabe Amo: Well, on a personal level, I am honored [00:01:00] at all aspects of this. I would say I did not run to make history. I got into this race to make a difference. But there are so many people who came before me, people of color, women.
Other path breaking individuals with whom I share a strong determination to overcome challenges and do our best for people here. And that alone is an honor for me.
Ian Donnis: Let’s switch gears to talk about some international and national issues. Thousands of Palestinians are being killed and injured as part of Israel’s effort to eliminate the threat posed by Hamas.
Do you support this approach by Israel?
Gabe Amo: Well, let me zoom out. I stand with Israel. I believe Israel has a right to defend itself. I, I believe the horrible terrorist attacks by Hamas are, are unconscionable. Just last night I was at the Jewish – actually I was at Temple Beth El an event sponsored by the Jewish Alliance and others and heard about the horrible tragedies and the hostages that have been taken.
I would also say it’s terribly important that we have a humanitarian concern and that we have a consideration for things like a humanitarian pause to make sure that we are having the impact on routing out terrorism instead of the innocent civilians who have been killed and so I as a –
Ian Donnis: As a supporter of Israel, are you concerned that international opinion is really turned against Israel due to the volume of violence. Are you concerned that Israel’s approach is going to have more negative than positive consequences?
Gabe Amo: Well, first I would say anti-semitism at all levels is a bad thing. I would say it’s also, you know, it’s also very clear that the more innocent lives are lost are not in the interest of anybody.
They’re not in the interest of anybody. Israel, they’re not in the interest of our global community. So that is why I encourage our leaders to think about the humanitarian imperative that exists for us in the response here while rooting out the horrific terrorism that we’ve witnessed from Hamas.
Ian Donnis: Hundreds of people attended a recent pro-Palestinian demonstration at the statehouse. Some people chanted “from the river to the sea,” which can be interpreted as a call for the elimination of Israel. Is there a place in the Democratic Party for people who support that chant?
Gabe Amo: Absolutely not. I do not believe that we have space for hate in our politics. We don’t have space for hate in our language. We should not have and invite anti-Semitism and certainly not invite Islamophobia. These are real big challenges and words matter at this moment. And all of our leaders need to be very precise, need to speak with clarity and need to be mindful of the, the people who are hurt by words and actions that often result from those words
Ian Donnis: The Alliance Defending Freedom, which is a Christian conservative group, was a driving force in the campaign to overturn Roe v. Wade, and it has won 15 U. S. Supreme Court cases. Does this show that Christian conservatives are having a disproportionate effect on the kind of laws that govern life in America?
Gabe Amo: Yeah, it’s unfortunate that we are having the personal beliefs of people driven into our politics. I believe in reproductive freedom, and that’s why it’s unfortunate that we have a Speaker of the House, new Speaker Mike Johnson, who speaks to those extremes. He was an architect of legal arguments to take away reproductive freedoms in the Dobbs case. He’s also an election denier. He’s also someone who was against same sex marriage. That is something that Rhode Islanders here in the First District can’t support and can’t support someone who is going to join that form of leadership and support that form of leadership.
Ian Donnis: If Christian conservatives like Speaker Johnson and the Alliance Defending Freedom are so influential and so ascendant in their influence, how do Democrats respond?
Gabe Amo: Well, I think we respond by being forthright and clear with our principles. One of those driving principles is freedom. And it’s freedom to ensure that we have a democracy that is protected. It’s freedom to make sure that people can live their most authentic selves no matter how they identify and freedom for those reproductive choices where no lawmaker, or aspiring lawmaker in me, should not be in that room for those most difficult of decisions. And so the way that we speak out is, has to be purposeful, has to be about the destructive impact of that ideological bent to our politics.
Ian Donnis: AR style guns were designed initially for the military. Gun rights supporters say the second amendment includes the right for people to own those sorts of guns. Do you agree or disagree?
Gabe Amo: Look, I think that separate from the conversation about the amendment, which, you know, the Second Amendment gets all sorts of interpretations, that we have to drive at some values. An assault weapons ban is necessary to me because we need to make sure that the harm inflicted on communities, on people’s lives, as we sit here, we think about the people in Lewiston is not something that’s repeated over and over and over again. We know the common denominator here, yet our politics as such because of the power of the gun lobby and because of some legislators where we aren’t doing as much. You see Jared Golden, the congressman from the Lewiston Maine area who said he has now changed his position on being against assault weapons, but it should not take mass death for the solutions that we require.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with Gabe Amo, Democratic candidate in the 1st Congressional District, and your campaign declined requests for you to participate in some debates and forums, including one planned by The Public’s Radio and the Providence Journal. Why do you support limiting to two TV debates, the opportunities for voters to see you go head to head with your Republican opponent, Gerry Leonard.
Gabe Amo: Well, Ian, I’m excited to be part of any venue that, where I can share ideas. This is the third time I’ve been here on Political Roundtable, and I think it’s been a great set of conversations.
Ian Donnis: And we’re very happy to have you here, but that’s still different from voters having the chance to see you and your Republican rival in the same format.
Gabe Amo: Yes. And, and Ian voters across the district have been engaged in this campaign. I’ve participated in forums across the primary season, and I look forward to the debates that I will have on television to widely available formats for voters. To make their judgment, to look and see whether we should send someone to join the Republican caucus that has our government on the brink of shutdown and is too extreme, or send someone who is a solutions-oriented leader who is focused on Rhode Island and serving a community that has done so much for me.
Ian Donnis: You worked in the White House with President Biden, so it’s probably not escaped your notice that Biden’s approval rating is underwater in 40 states, including every battleground state, according to a new survey out this week by Morning Consult, a group in Washington, D. C. If President Biden’s record is as good as you and other Democrats say, why is he so unpopular?
Gabe Amo: Yeah, I think it sometimes takes a while for everybody to feel the impact of legislation takes a while for people to be connected to the progress that we’ve made. Under president Trump, we saw us at the depths of the COVID 19 pandemic and an economy on the brink of collapse and real questions of our democracy on January 6th and insurrection under president Biden.
And I was proud to serve at the white house and help get things done. Like the bipartisan infrastructure law, like the inflation reduction app, the chips and science act to invest here in Rhode Island. You see the recent announcement of a tech hub, real big things that will create jobs, but we have to do a better job telling the story. And I hope to do that if successful as a member of Congress.
Ian Donnis: On the other side of the aisle, people can cite a litany of outrages about former President Donald Trump from threatening General Mark Milley, the former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, cozying up to autocrats, on and on and on. Given this, why does Trump maintain such a commanding lead among Republican voters on the Republican side?
Gabe Amo: I wish I could tell you I understood how Republican voters work. I don’t know. But what I would say is there’s a clear contrast and people will have a clear choice next November in a likely matchup with Current President Biden and former President Trump. But what I will say is we as a country have to move forward away from the divisiveness that we saw in the Trump administration away from the rhetoric of hate and into one where everybody can thrive and have opportunity in our economy and beyond.
Ian Donnis: You epitomize the American dream as a son of immigrants from Liberia and Ghana, but Rhode Island has struggled for decades to improve public schools. You formerly worked for Governor Raimondo. Why have Democrats who’ve led the state for close to a century not done a better job of improving public education?
Gabe Amo: Yeah, I think public education is one of our sacred institutions that we need to continue to invest in. And I think a lot of our children as they enter the classroom have a multitude of challenges that disrupt that progress. Things like child hunger, which has grown in our country. Things like unstable housing. Things like the mental health crisis that we experience. And so, our teachers are champions and we need to continue to support them in all sorts of ways. And as a member of Congress, what I would focus on is some of those determinants of outcomes that happen outside of the classroom and make sure that we are working as hard as we can to equip our school systems with what they need.
Ian Donnis: Very briefly, if you win Tuesday, you’ll be the most junior member of Congress. You’ll struggle for years to win influence. How will you try and overcome that?
Gabe Amo: Well, I don’t think I’ll struggle for influence, Ian. I think I have a unique position having served for two presidents of the United States and I will take advantage of every opportunity to help Rhode Islanders from day one. I feel ready for the job.
Ian Donnis: Gabe Amo, Democrat running in Rhode Island’s 1st Congressional District, thank you for joining us.
Gabe Amo: Thank you so much for having me, Ian.
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When it comes to dramatic and significant news, our current moment can be measured in dog years. The war in Israel, the clash in Ukraine, China’s rise, and Donald Trump’s remaking of the Republican Party are stories with far-reaching consequences. Given that, you might be surprised to learn that Americans are following the news less closely than they used to, according to Pew. Maybe that’s not an unusual response to depressing headlines from near and far. But if people don’t follow the news, how will they make informed decisions? You can read more about that in my Friday TGIF column posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter @IanDon and the publics radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
As a 30-year veteran of the Marines who left with the rank of colonel, Leonard says he has the judgment and leadership to ably represent Rhode Islanders in the First Congressional District. But can he overcome the challenge of running as a Republican in a heavily Democratic district? What does Leonard think of the rightward direction of the GOP in Washington and Donald Trump’s attempt to recapture the White House? And what is this combat veteran’s view of the violent conflicts in Israel and Ukraine? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with the Republican candidate in the First Congressional District, Gerry Leonard.
Ian Donnis: Voters in the first district will decide between you and Democrat Gabe Amo on November 7, what makes you the better candidate?
Gerry Leonard: I think it’s my experience. Absolutely believe it is my experience. I’ve served our country for 30 years, I’ve served in some of the highest places and developed some of the plans and implementing some of the plans that have protected our nation from our enemies and adversaries. I’ve met with foreign foreign leaders. I’ve worked with foreign leaders. I remember being in Afghanistan with Ashraf Ghani, to figure out how we can rebuild Afghanistan and at that time, we were making progress worked with the embassies over there, and around the globe, worked with USAID, a ton of experience. But most importantly, it was taking an oath. Every time I was promoted to support and defend our Constitution against enemies, all enemies foreign and domestic. And it was the leadership that came with it, real leadership.
Ian Donnis: There’s a new poll from the Pell Center at Salve Regina Yniversity that had some good news for you. It showed Amo leading you by 11 points, which is smaller than the number of undecided voters 15%. The not so good news for you, is that a generic Republican would probably get about 35% of the vote, which is where you are so how can you close that difference with Amo in the limited time before November 7,
Gerry Leonard: It’s meeting with people like you, getting our word out, it’s meeting with voters, which is the most important one, we’ve got a short period of time and it’s working our tail off and telling and telling our story. And again, our story is one of a local Rhode Island kid that grew up here, 13th generation Rhode Islander, parents are school teachers. I learned how to put service before self from my parents, I have a backbone. I am going to Washington DC to represent those people that elect me, those are my bosses. It’s not a political party. And it’s not advancing in my own career. It is to make Rhode Island, which I think is the most beautiful state in the country, and one that I’m deeply proud of, a better state.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking in the aftermath of an awful mass shooting in Maine. It looks like an AR-style weapon was used. And the AR-style of gun was created as a weapon of war. It was not really much in the civilian market for many years. But it’s become pretty ubiquitous in America, and it’s become an icon for gun rights supporters. Does it make sense that a weapon of war like that is so freely available?
Gerry Leonard: Well, Ian, you and I have discussed this in the past. I took that oath to support and defend the Constitution. That’s our civil liberties. And I absolutely believe that we need to protect those civil liberties to include the Second Amendment. I am also a parent of four. They’re adults now. But I never want to – would want to be a parent that had to worry about whether or not their kid was coming home. I think we have some of the strongest gun safety laws or gun control laws. I believe in responsible gun ownership. And I will work across both aisles to come up with common sense solutions. And I absolutely believe you can’t talk about these weapons without talking about the mental health crisis in our country right now. And we need to resource what we’re seeing. And I think, you know, the individual that perpetrated these heinous attacks, and my prayers are out to every one of those families, is he was suffering, some form of mental health. To me it looked like somebody that didn’t need a weapon in their hand, whatever weapon it is.
Ian Donnis: Let me stop you there because we’ve got a lot of ground to cover. We see how Republicans struggled in Washington for weeks to elect a new speaker, as voters choose between you and Gabe Amo if people are questioning why they should add another Republican to the caucus in the US House in the aftermath of this disarray. What would you say to that?
Gerry Leonard: Well, I’m glad that we have elected a speaker of the house. I think he had some positive – I think he made a positive, couple positive comments yesterday. I liked the actions he took to show our support for Israel. That was very important. But now we get back to the people’s business. And that’s what we need a speaker for. And I think with the house, so close, you know, five more Republicans than Democrats. I think you’ll see much like the last speaker and hopefully all speakers when you have a house that’s that close together by five votes you need to work across party lines and I believe that’s what we’ll see in the speaker. I don’t know him personally, but I think that’s what we’ll get to, have to do.
Ian Donnis: The new house speaker, Mike Johnson of Louisiana supports a national abortion ban. He opposes same sex marriage rights. And he supported efforts by former President Donald Trump to overturn the results of the 2020 election. Do these kinds of stances show that the Republican caucus in the US House has moved too far to the right?
Gerry Leonard: I mean, let’s let – the jury. Let’s let this gentleman again, I don’t know him personally, let’s let him figure out how he’s going to lead and you’re going to have to lead and you’re going to have to work together down there. And then let’s let him have a shot in doing that. Your other topics? The abortion piece, I think you’ve said you’ve heard me say this. I’m a strong believer in the Constitution, strong believer in the 10th amendment. This is – the state of Rhode Island codified it into law. So I am not going to Washington DC to take Rhode Island laws, Rhode Island privileges away from it. And I strongly, strongly believe that what I feel personally, might be a little different. And that is a I do think some states have supported what I would call something fairly extreme on abortion, late term and partial partial birth abortion. And I don’t believe taxpayers ought to be funding abortions.
Ian Donnis: I believe you’ve said that you’re not particularly enthusiastic about Donald Trump as a presidential candidate, but that if he is the Republican nominee, you will support him. Is that about right?
Gerry Leonard: I will support the Republican nominee. That’s in 2024. I’m focused on 2023. But I think it’s important that I elaborate on that. In 1975, there was a senator from Washington State, Scoop Jackson, that was way ahead of Jimmy Carter and no one knew who Jimmy Carter was. A year later, he won the nomination to be the Democratic nominee eventually became the Senator. There’s a lot that’s going to change between now and 2024. Again, I’m focused on 2023 and getting my message out to the Rhode Island voters and that’s one of leadership, service before self and principles above politics.
Ian Donnis: In terms of Donald Trump, he has talked about things like suspending the Constitution, he’s said that former Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley deserves to be executed. He’s talked admiringly about people like Vladimir Putin, how come these things are not disqualifying for you in terms of considering Trump as a presidential candidate?
Gerry Leonard: Well, go to the Constitution. And it’s incredibly important to all of us. I think the one thing that you know, there’s a few things that unite us as a country. We are a nation of immigrants. We’ve all come here one way or another. And what makes us common and it’s those founding documents, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, our common culture. We are – the United States is unique in world history. It doesn’t matter who your parents were. It doesn’t matter what your race is, it doesn’t matter what your sex is, it doesn’t matter what your orientation is. We live in the greatest country in the world. And I’m afraid we’re a little bit off track. And I want to go down to Washington to help Rhode Islanders make sure our country, particularly along the economy, stays on track. And we have some things that I think need to be addressed immediately.
Ian Donnis: You’ve seen war up close, as in the course of your career in the Marines you served in Iraq and Afghanistan. So a couple of questions on the current war in Israel. Do you think the approach of Israel which Israel says it’s going after Hamas, but there are many civilians who are being hurt and killed in the process? Do you have any concern that the collateral damage, so to speak, is going to play into the hands of Israel’s enemies and counteract Israel’s goals in this conflict?
Gerry Leonard: Ian, I think we saw last week information war, which is now an element of war, when that hospital was struck by Hamas, whether it was intentionally or was an errant missile, I don’t know. Immediately, the response was, look what Israel is doing. And it wasn’t Israel. I think Israel has shown a ton of restraint. They are trying to provide time to move civilians out of the way. I think the fight in front of them and I absolutely believe it’s Hamas that has their boot on the neck of Palestinians. And they’re a threat to civilian Palestinians that happened to live there. But they have the boot on the neck of them. I think if Hamas is dismantled, particularly the command and control of that organization, the people of – the Palestinians, and the Jews will be in a much better place in a safer place. And never when you go into war are you out there to intentionally hurt civilians. That’s what Hamas did. And I think Israeli IDF, Israeli Defense Force and the government have shown a tremendous amount of restraint.
Ian Donnis: Democrats want to give the IRS more money. They say this would help close a gap of billions of dollars each year in taxes that go uncollected although they are due. You want to undo this additional money for the IRS? Why do you think Democrats are wrong on this issue?
Gerry Leonard: I think if we’re going to spend that type of money, creating a new, more infrastructure, and once you build something in the federal government, it doesn’t go away, which I’m always cautious about expanding the size of our federal government. But if you’re going to, what I think, recklessly spend that type of money when we already have a financial health problem in this country, that those 87,000 individuals ought to be customs or border patrol folks, and we ought to be enforcing our laws along the southwest border.
Ian Donnis: In the time before you ran for Congress, you took a hike along the Appalachian Trail with your son. What were some of your top takeaways from that?
Gerry Leonard: There’s a lot of great people in this country. I hiked that trail, we went from Maine to Georgia, Ian and it was that time of year with college kids and high school kids. So I was the old man out there. I got the nickname Diesel because I went up the hill slower than they did. But just a lot of wonderful people that are out there. Out with nature, which I think it clears the mind, clears the soul. And probably the most important one for myself and my son, I was gone a lot of times, overseas while he was at key moments of his life in high school. I missed two of his four high school years by being in Iraq or Afghanistan. That bonding experience with my son was phenomenal. And along the way we were able to raise a significant amount of money for a nonprofit that supports disabled veterans, particularly those with PTSD.
Ian Donnis: Let me stop you there because we’re out of time. Thank you so much for joining us, Republican candidate in Rhode Island’s first congressional district, Gerry Leonard,
Gerry Leonard: Ian thank you very much. Thanks for your time.
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The dark side of calamari came into view through a story last week in The New York Times Magazine. Reporter Ian Urbina described how Chinese fishing boats trap workers in deplorable conditions while depleting the ocean of squid and other forms of seafood. The story notes how squid was made more palatable for American plates by rebranding it as the more exotic sounding calamari. You can read more about this in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter and at The Public’s Radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Organized labor is having a moment in America. Strikes by Hollywood writers and auto workers in Michigan show how unions are flexing their muscle in response to changes in technology. At the same time, corporate giants like Amazon and Starbucks have squelched the impact of organizing among their employees. Here in Rhode Island, organized labor remains an influential force at the Statehouse. One familiar face in that movement, Pat Crowley of the Rhode Island AFL-CIO, is poised to take over the leadership of that union. So can labor maintain its local relevance? Do expanded benefits for public employees come at the expense of taxpayers? And what role can unions play in addressing income inequality and the economic anxiety felt by many Americans? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with secretary-treasurer of the Rhode Island AFL-CIO Pat Crowley.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio. Let’s start with some news. You’re taking on an expanded role at the start of the new year with the Rhode Island AFL-CIO. As the union’s current president George Nee, a one time bodyguard for Cesar Chavez and a longtime icon in the local labor movement moves to a part time role. What is the significance of this change?
Pat Crowley: Well, after 18 years of working for NEA Rhode Island, I’m going to be joining the AFL CIO full time.
Ian Donnis: And NEA Rhode Island his one of the state’s largest teachers unions.
Pat Crowley: Correct. You know, George Nee has been a fixture in the labor movement in Rhode Island for four decades. And he’s been a tremendous mentor to me. But it does signify that there’s going to be a transition over the next year. And it’s going to be an exciting change. That’s going to bring a lot of interest in the labor movement, I hope, but George is still going to be around to make sure that I do my job and that the work that he’s done continues on.
Ian Donnis: Will you take on the title of president of the Rhode Island AFL CIO.
Pat Crowley: No, not until George retires, which is up to him when that’s actually going to happen. You know, he’s been such a fixture in the in the community, you know, he deserves the time to make that decision on his own. What is your
Ian Donnis: What is your vision for the future of the Rhode Island, AFL-CIO?
Pat Crowley: I want to make sure that we focus a lot more on organizing the unorganized workers. We’ve done a lot of work in the last couple of years, with our affiliates, making sure that we set the groundwork to make sure that workers have a voice on the job. And I think we can expand that a lot more changing some state laws giving some people the more the right to organize, and making sure that all of our affiliates have the resources they need to get that done.
Ian Donnis: Organized labor has taken on a higher profile recently with the writers strike in Hollywood auto workers strike in Michigan. At the same time, the percentage of Americans who belong to a labor union fell to a historic low last year 10.1% as measured by the Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. So how would you describe what the current moment means for organized labor? And what would it really take to expand the labor movement
Pat Crowley: Sure. Ian, since September one of this year 330,000, workers have been out on strike fighting for better pay and better working conditions. And I think that says two things about where we are as a country. First, workers are fed up with an economy that creates haves and have nots. And they see that the economy has been working for the 1% Very well, the ratio of CEO pay to worker pay is now 350 to one, when in 1965. It was 20 to one. So I think workers are fed up with things that don’t work for their favor. Second, I think what we’re seeing is a new generation of labor leaders coming into their ascendancy. You know, Liz Shula, the president of the National AFL CIO is only 52 years old, Sean O’Brien, who’s the president of the Teamsters has 52. Shawn Fain, the President of the United Auto Workers is 54. So I think this, this new crop of leadership entered the labor movement into the mid 90s. And for decades now, the corporate class has thrown everything, including the kitchen sink at us trying to kill labor unions, it didn’t work. So now I think it’s our turn to to bring the fight back to them. And I think the workers are responding, because they know that we need an economy that serves their needs and their family’s needs, not the 1%
Ian Donnis: You refer to the issue of income inequality, what can be done here in Rhode Island to make bigger a bigger difference on that issue?
Pat Crowley: I think first and foremost, we need to continue raising the minimum wage. You know, we’re scheduled to get up to $15 an hour, but by the time we get there, $15 an hour won’t be enough. So it would be a good idea for the General Assembly to start looking at raising the minimum wage above $15 an hour starting this year, rather than waiting till we get there. The second thing, and I mean this in all sincerity, that we need to make sure that we expand the opportunities for workers to join unions. One of the laws that was passed in Maine and Connecticut last year, and we’re going to look at here in Rhode Island, this upcoming session is to make what’s called captive audience meetings illegal within the state’s borders. A captive audience meeting is really an opportunity for union busters to scare the living daylights out of workers while they’re trying to organize. If workers have a free right to organize, then I think we’ll be able to raise wages and benefits across the entire community.
Ian Donnis: We’ve seen how corporations like Amazon and Starbucks have been able to marginalize organizing efforts by their employees like even after the organization of a union at an Amazon facility in New York. What does that show about the limitations of the labor movement?
Pat Crowley: It doesn’t show any limitations about the labor movement. What it shows us that labor law is broken in the United States. We’re operating under a law that was written in 1935 in very different circumstances. And for 80 years now, the corporate class has worked to undermine the intention of that law. We need to make sure that we pass things Like the ProAct, to modernize our labor law, give people and give workers a free hand to form their unions, because opinion polls show that while we are only 10% of the workforce as members of unions, 70% of the people in the United States support our cause. That’s a massive disconnect between reality and the state of the law, and it needs to be updated.
Pat Crowley: We’re talking here with Pat Crowley, secretary treasurer of the Rhode Island AFL CIO, do you anticipate any organizing efforts at the Amazon facility in Johnston?
Pat Crowley: Oh, I, I’m not privy to any information about that now. I would think that we will be heavily involved with trying to make sure that those workers understand what their rights are, and making sure that if they do want a union, that the AFL CIO and all of our affiliates will be there to support them.
Ian Donnis: You have for years been part of the leadership at the National Education Association – Rhode Island, one of the state’s largest teacher unions, what’s your explanation for why Rhode Island has struggled for so many years to try to improve public schools and student performance?
Pat Crowley: Oh, I think there’s a number of different reasons. First, let me say something about NEA Rhode Island, the changes that are happening, there are just fun to watch. We have a new dynamic leader in our president Val Lawson, we have a new incredible leader in our Executive Director, Mary Barden, two very strong, capable women that are running an incredibly important organization in the state. And I know they’ll both do a good job. But from an education point of view, I think what we’ve tried to do over the last 20 years just hasn’t worked. We’ve created a parallel school system in the state between traditional schools and public charter schools. That didn’t work. So we’ve got to stop doing the things that don’t work, and get back to focusing on making sure that every student has their needs met in school, so that every student can get a free lunch if they need to every school provides breakfast every schools provides mental health services and social work services because students don’t enter the classroom as a blank slate. They bring all of their trauma, all of their background and histories and into the classroom. And we’ve ignored that for too long.
Ian Donnis: You were named this week by State Treasurer James Diossa. To a panel that’s going to review the 2011 pension overhaul, spearheaded by then treasurer Gina Raimondo. Now the US Commerce Secretary. At the time, Raimondo said these changes, like the suspension of cost of living adjustments were necessary to ensure the sustainability of the pension plan. Do you agree with that?
Pat Crowley: Well, I think the times now are very different than they were in 2011. And I think it’s important for us to take a a clear look at what are the results of that change. So for example, one of the things that we’ve noticed is that there is a lack of, you know, there’s 1000 fewer state workers today than they were in 2011. There are 1000 current job openings in the state workforce. One of the things that we’ve seen around the country and studies have shown this is that by shifting from traditional pension plans, to 401 K style plans is a contributing factor to states not being able to hire workers. So I think we’ve got to take a hard look at what that will do. The second element of it is that we need to find a balance between not just the retirees and their COLAs and their benefits, but also how we impacted the active workers, because the active workers have to work an additional decade, if not longer, for a much reduced benefit than the retirees got. So we’ve got to find the right balance to make sure everyone’s interests are protected. And I hope this commission is going to take a hard look at the ways that we could do that.
Ian Donnis: One of your other roles is serving as a board member of RIPTA. You’ve been aligned with state DOT director Peter Alviti. And criticizing RIPTA head, Scott Avedesian. Isn’t the fundamental problem for RIPTA and public transit in Rhode Island that RIPTA has really lacked a sustainable long term funding source?
Pat Crowley: Well, I’m very proud of my work at RIPTA. I was honored to be nominated by the governor and confirmed by the Senate to take that job. When I joined though, a year and a half ago, I think I was you know, like a lot of Rhode Islanders don’t see RIPTA fulfilling its mission. But when I walked into that boardroom, I was surprised to find that everyone within that boardroom thought everything was fine, nothing was wrong. I can’t — I believe that we need to shake things up. And I’m going to continue to try to shake things up. So that RIPTA gets the resources it needs for sure. But also so that the agency takes a broader look at how it could service all of Rhode Island. And I think we need to do a better job over there to do that.
Ian Donnis: But isn’t the underlying issue been for many years, you know, outside of some COVID money that it just hasn’t had adequate money to really have a more extreme answer of level of public transit.
Pat Crowley: I absolutely agree with that. But at the same time, the agency hasn’t done a good enough job explaining to the people of Rhode Island why it deserves to be funded at a better level. And that’s one of the reasons why shaking things up over there is important, because if we can prove to the people of Rhode Island that RIPTA serves the purpose that it’s intended to, I know that the people of Rhode Island including our elected leaders will provide the funding to get the job done.
Ian Donnis: You’re a very ardent Democrat, so I wonder, why do you think at a national level, Republicans and conservatives have been so much more effective at organizing to the point where they’ve been able to shift the US Supreme Court in a more conservative way?
Pat Crowley: Well, I think part of that is the big money that goes into politics. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse has been adamant about how dark money has influenced everything from school council races to State House races to federal races. And I think they’ve used their money from the corporate class to rig the system. And I think as people are starting to become more aware of that and find out what the outcome is, they’re starting to realize that we’ve got to pay more attention at of politics at every single level of government to make sure that the Republican Party, especially the MAGA Republicans in Washington, don’t continue to rig the system against the needs of everyday working people.
Ian Donnis: You’re a resident of Lincoln, where’s the best place to eat in your town?
Pat Crowley: Oh, my favorite place to eat is The Lodge on Breakneck Hill Road. It’s a great place. It’s right off the exit of 146. I would encourage anyone to get a meal there.
Ian Donnis: Pat Crowley, secretary treasurer of the Rhode Island AFL CIO, thank you very much for joining us.
Pat Crowley: Thank you, Ian.
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Providence Mayor Brett Smiley will not implement a bike lane that was tested on Hope Street last year by his predecessor, cycling enthusiast Jorge Elorza. But are concerns about how bike lanes affect parking spaces overstated? In the area around Hope and Rochambeau on the East Side, after all, nearby side streets offer plenty of parking. You can read more about this in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter and at The Public’s Radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Jack Reed’s first term in the U.S. Senate coincided with the so-called “vacation from history.” That was the period between the end of the Cold War and 9/11, a time marked by a lack of conflict on the world stage. Now, things are very different. The state of war between Hamas and Israel raises concerns about a wider regional conflict. U.S. policymakers are focused on the rising power of China. The war in Ukraine grinds on. Autocrats control a number of nations. In the U.S., the House of Representatives is marked by instability, many Americans have lost faith in government, and the country is edging closer to a high-stakes presidential race. As chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Reed has a front seat for many of these issues. In this week’s installment of Political Roundtable, Ian Donnis goes in depth with Rhode Island’s senior U.S. senator, Jack Reed. Listen to the interview or read the transcript below.
Ian Donnis: The world has been shaken by the Hamas attack on Israel and Israel’s response. As you look to the weeks, months and years ahead, how would you sketch out the potential best-case, worst-case scenario?
Jack Reed: Best-case is that with our international support, the Israeli Defense Forces move in to Gaza and identify Hamas and begin to remove them from the battlefield and do so with very precise use of airpower, minimizing civilian casualties, and essentially, identifying the leadership and taking that leadership out totally. And then, after the fighting, a renewed effort to come up with a framework that will be stable and peaceful in that area. And it’s eluded us for decades and decades and decades.
Donnis: How about the worst-case scenario?
Reed: Worst-case scenario is that Hezbollah in Lebanon could actively be involved. They have 1000s and 1000s of missiles that present a real challenge to the air defense system of Israel and wreak havoc on the state of Israel. That also could be complemented by attacks from Syria by Iranian-based elements. Part of this is Iran’s position in terms of trying to either increase this violence, stay away from it, or hopefully actually really tried to decelerate it. But the worst-case would be a second front with huge damage to not just the Israelis, but to the surrounding countries.
Donnis: There’s a humanitarian crisis unfolding in Gaza. It’s been cut off from food, electricity, etc. Is Israel being too indiscriminate in its response?
Reed: No, they’re not. Their response so far is very, very targeted towards trying to take out Hamas. And we are working with the Egyptians particularly, to open up a safe corridor from Gaza to Egypt, so that Palestinian civilians, innocent Palestinians, can find some sanctuary in Egypt, and that Americans or Palestinian-Americans in Gaza can find a way out.
Donnis: You took office as a senator in 1997. That was after the Cold War had ended, and there was kind of a lull in crises on the international scene. Now there’s land war in Europe, China’s rising power, a small Hamas force was able to shock the top military power in the Middle East. Is the world we’re living in now more dangerous than when the US and the Soviet Union checked each other with nuclear weapons?
Reed: Well, it’s dangerous, but to make a comparison, less or more so, I don’t think that’s useful. This is a very dangerous time. It’s a very dangerous time for the points you mentioned. You have an active war of aggression by the Russians against the Ukrainian people. We have to stand with them, because if they lose, we lose. The president has done a remarkable job bringing NATO together, getting supplies in there. I’ve been in Kyiv. I’ve seen President Zelensky. I know the caliber of the fighting force — they are ferocious, and they’ll fight, but they can’t do it alone. If Russia prevails and the likelihood of their regime, Putin going after other countries, is high. And that could involve us directly in conflict because of NATO, all the Baltic countries are NATO members An attack against one, as we demonstrated in 9/11, is an attack against all, NATO joined us. Then you’ve got the situation in Israel. And as you point out, we have China. But we have some other things too. We have technologies that is emerging, that is, day by day is getting more and more difficult to understand, difficult to integrate to our military forces. AI, quantum computing, could be a revolutionary change in how we conduct military operations.
Donnis: To follow up on Ukraine, the US has spent more than $75 billion in aid and Ukraine is making very incremental gains. What will it take for Ukraine to win a victory in the war?
Reed: Well, they’re going to continue to fight throughout the winter, although mobility is so deterred by weather that no one anticipates a large-scale breakthrough. But they are so tenacious that they will fight through the winter, they will gain not huge amounts of territory, but I’m convinced continue to gain territory. This spring is going to be a key moment because that’s when the weather would favor a significant offensive. And I think they will be well prepared for that offensive. They’ll have had more experience using our not just ours, but other NATO allies’ tanks, their communication systems will be enhanced. They’ve done a lot of incredible improvisation there, which we’re learning from. And I think basically, if they can get to the sea of Azov, if they can separate the force of the Russian forces in the west from those in the east, get close to the Crimea border. I think at that point, Putin would have to start thinking about, how do I stop this?
Donnis: Let’s shift gears and talk about domestic politics. Steve Scalise in the House has won the nomination to be the next speaker. It’s been reported that years ago when he was a state representative in Louisiana, he attended a meeting of a white supremacist group. He later apologized for that. Should that be disqualifying for him as speaker?
Reed: Well, he described himself and this is his own words, I believe, he’s David Duke without the baggage, and as we know, David Duke was the prominent head of the Ku Klux Klan. So making that statement was absolutely irresponsible, as well as highly objectionable. Disqualification? Yes. I mean, certainly I would not have voted for him. But he has a tough battle and a tough battle is the fact that there is not unanimity in that caucus for him. And one of the problems and this is one of the reasons McCarthy collapsed is that to get those four or five extra votes, you have to make promises that are detrimental [to governing] the United States. So even if he wins, I think like McCarthy, he might end up losing.
Donnis: When we look to the presidential race next year, a lot of Democrats are worried there’s not been a large amount of enthusiasm for President Biden. At the same time. Democrats are very critical of Donald Trump. Do you see democracy being on the line in the presidential election next year?
Reed: Oh, absolutely. I think democracy is on the line right now. When you see the House of Representatives for the first time in history stop, because they have no speaker. That’s a wake-up call. When you see some of the partisan activities, the holds on military officers by Senator Tuberville for now, going on for months — we have hundreds of officers that need to be promoted to fill critical spots. That’s dysfunctional. They’re not politicians. They are military professionals dedicated to the Constitution and we hold them hostage. That’s outrageous. We don’t have an ambassador in Lebanon today or Israel, one of the two most critical countries in terms of diplomacy, because the ambassador to Lebanon is being held now, for reasons unrelated to the skill of that person or anything else. This is a sign of a democracy that has fractures and we have to fix them. And it’s going to take a bipartisan basis to do that. I must say in the Senate, at least, overall, we’ve done some bipartisan actions, we passed all of our appropriations bills, 12 of them on a bipartisan basis, led by Senator Murray of Washington and Senator Susan Collins of Maine. They were very bipartisan, very thoughtful. And we’ve done other bills on a bipartisan basis. But …
Donnis: Let me just stop you there because we have limited time. Democrats and Republicans have been unable for years to get together on an immigration legislation despite how blue states like Massachusetts and New York are now being pressured and struggling to deal with migrants. How come the two parties can’t come to terms on that?
Reed: Well, we worked together in 2006. In the Senate, we [had] bipartisan legislation led by my colleague and friend, John McCain, which was supported by President George W. Bush. He said he’d sign it. And then it went over to the House and got caught off in a Republican Congress that did not want a rational policy. We have to get back not just in the Senate, but in the House to sitting down and doing common sense things that protects our borders, allows for talented people to come in the United States, and not fall into this trap we have now where we’re arguing, while our borders are less secure than they should be.
Donnis: According to the Pew Research Center, support and confidence in the federal government is at a record low. What is your explanation for that?
Reed: Very easy. You look at the House, and it seems more like vaudeville than legislation. You’ve got individuals there that are, you know, all they want to do is get on the news. We have a senator in our side that’s holding up hundreds and hundreds of military promotions. So people look at that. And they say wait a second. Things used to run fairly routinely. There were ups and downs. There were bumps along the road. But basically, they got things done. They got budgets done, they got officers confirmed. They did all those things. Now they can’t do that. So that and also the polarization, I think caused by social media where news has been replaced by opinion and untruth in many cases that’s exacerbating the situation.
Donnis: As we sit here today, are you planning to seek re-election in 2026?
Reed: I plan to work hard every day so I am ready to go in 2026. And that’s the key, not only a key to re-election, but it’s also the key to effectively serving the state. This week, we had a manufacturers roundtable, we had a great discussion about things we can do to help manufacturing. This morning I met with the Realtors about legislation we can help. We have an incredible affordable housing problem. And I get so much inspiration and ideas from Rhode Island and I’m just going to keep working as hard as I can.
Donnis: You’d like dining out on the story of how as a young army second lieutenant you babysat for a bouncing baby girl named Gina Raimondo. Do you see her as a future presidential candidate?
Reed: Absolutely. Gina is one of the few people in Washington that commands the respect of both sides of the aisle, because of her skill, because of her talent. She was instrumental, one of the key factors in getting the Chips Act passed on a bipartisan basis. So she has the intellectual and temperament and character to lead. I don’t know if it’s president, but it’s going to be something significant in the national political life, and she’s come a long way since that little baby.
As a state rep, Morales has mixed idealism and pragmatism along with his advocacy for public education, labor rights and public benefit programs. His approach has won the respect of his colleagues and made him someone worth watching. So why did Morales pursue a path in politics when many young people choose not to do so? How much of a difference can he make at the Statehouse? And can lawmakers like Morales make inroads on complex issues like healthcare and income inequality? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with state Representative David Morales.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
David Morales: Hi Ian, very excited to be here. This is definitely years in the making.
Ian Donnis: You are 25 years old and you’ve already been a member of the Rhode Island House of Representatives for almost three years. How did you get interested in politics?
David Morales: So a lot of it has to do with my upbringing, and essentially just the way I was raised. So I was raised by a single immigrant mom in a small rural town in central California. And growing up, I watched her work, multiple minimum wage jobs. And I’m always very proud to say that I’m a product of public schools, product of public housing, Medicaid, and food stamps. So in other words, I have seen firsthand A: the low wages, people are getting paid, that forces me to be on these public assistance programs, while at the same time just recognizing the value of these public benefit programs into themselves. And it wasn’t until I got a lot older into my adolescence that I made the connections. And I quickly realized, the reason my mom works multiple jobs, even though it’s a single parent household, is because the wages she is earning are low. And the reason I’m able to go to the doctor is because the government funds a program that allows me to be able to access my primary care physician.
Ian Donnis: After you became a state rep, how did you figure out how to strive for your progressive goals while at the same time being pragmatic?
David Morales: I think ultimately, it’s about having an understanding within other legislators and stakeholders that exist within the realms of the statehouse. Where is there a common overlap in terms of our goals? Because I am a proponent for a single payer universal health care system. However, I understand we’re not gonna get there overnight. But how can we chip away at the issue? And how can I work with my like minded legislators who might not believe in Medicare for all, but believe that their constituents deserve lower prescription drug costs. And one example from this session, I was very proud that we were able to pass legislation to limit the out of pocket expenses for specialty prescription drugs. And the lead sponsor alongside me was Representative Mike Chippendale the Minority Leader. Similarly, I know Representative Chippendale does not necessarily believe in the single payer health care system, but he recognizes that his constituents within Gloucester and Foster deserve affordable prescription drugs.
Ian Donnis: Let’s talk about some other issues. We’ve heard for years about the growing problem of income inequality. It’s such a big and amorphous issue that making change seems really difficult. How do you see the way forward on that?
David Morales: So I don’t think these issues are complicated. To be frank, the situation is that people are being paid low wages, for incredibly stressful work, whether you are in retail, whether you are engaged in hospitality industry, those are the jobs where you’re earning less than $20 an hour. And it is incredibly hard to get by in terms of being able to pay your rent, which continues to increase every year, in addition to the cost of utilities and daily essentials like groceries. So the matter of the fact is, we’re just not paying our workers enough. And that also is connected to public service jobs as well. I don’t think we’re paying our public educators enough. And that’s why we have a high rate of vacancies, especially within the urban core within our public school districts. Similarly, we talk about a crisis going on at the Department of Human Services. The reality is people don’t want to work for low wages, especially young people, who more often than not either graduated from college or attended college and have accumulated some level of debt.
Ian Donnis: You mentioned your support a little earlier for Medicare for all. Big question is how to pay for it. What would you say on that?
David Morales: So a statewide universal single payer health care system is entirely plausible. The way it works is it would require the state budget to invest significantly in Medicaid. We increase reimbursement rates for our providers, we also ensure that we expand eligibility as it relates to people being able to qualify for Medicaid. And it’s a gradual transition. So what would happen thereafter, is we get more money from the federal government every time we invest in Medicaid through federal reimbursements and matches. Once that transition period has happened for a span of four to five years, the state government can then request to the federal government a waiver saying hey, all that money you are giving us in terms of Medicaid reimbursements, we’re going to shift to a single payer health care system. So we would ask that we get a waiver. So instead of giving us money for Medicaid, you’re giving us money to support a single payer health care system. So that’s how this transition would work in addition to other revenue sources as well.
Ian Donnis: Education has played a key role in your life. So I’m curious for your perspective on why Rhode Island has struggled for decades to improve public schools and what you think needs to be done differently.
David Morales: Lack of investment, both in terms of the infrastructure and the staffing. We have one mental health counselor or social worker for every 400 plus students. The national recommendation is one mental health caseworker for every 250 students. Needless to say we have not made the investments needed for mental health support. We have not made the investments necessary to have sustainable teaching workforce, especially with the vacancies you see in Providence you have over 200 vacancies as of right now. And that’s a lack of stability. So how do we expect our kids to be able to learn if they’re not even in a stable classroom, you combine that with crumbling school buildings as well. And that lack of investment. So I think a lot of this is just years and years of divestment within our public school systems that we’re now starting to see the results of it, which again, is lower test scores. You’re seeing kids come out of high school feeling like they have a lack of direction in addition to whether or not we’re graduating our students at a sufficient rate, especially students of color.
David Morales:We’re talking here with State Representative David Morales, A Providence Democrat, and obviously, we’re coming up on a presidential election next year. It seems like a lot of Democrats, particularly young people are not particularly enthused about Joe Biden, he’s probably not one of your top political icons. But I wonder, are you concerned that this lack of energy and enthusiasm among Democrats and young voters could help to foster a victory for Donald Trump.
David Morales: So this is why local politics is so important. Because naturally, everyone always assumes that the most important election is the presidential election, even though what happens on a day to day basis is most likely decisions based on what happens at city hall or the state house. So I think it’s up to down ballot Democrats to turn out the vote. And when you have down ballot Democrats, between school committees, city council races, House of Representative races, actively going and talking to voters and young people in particular, you’re going to see excitement for people to recognize, alright, Congress is not the end all be all, the White House is not the end all be all those races are important. But equally as important are the Democrats on the ground who are actively fighting for the issues I care about at the local level. And I think when you do that, we’re gonna see a bottom up approach. Well, there will be a turnout and more enthusiasm for President Biden and other top ticket Democrats than you would. And again, races where generally the idea has always been we’re going to focus on the mainstream races and not so much on the smaller races,
Ian Donnis: We see how some blue states like Massachusetts and New York are struggling with an influx of immigrants. What is your view on how the US should address the issue of immigration?
David Morales: One, we need a sustainable pathway to citizenship it is inaccessible in of itself just in terms of the requirements to become a legal permanent resident. And thereafter, the requirements to become a citizen, the cost of the exam continues to go up each and every single year, there aren’t sufficient resources for the nonprofits that are doing this work to support immigrants. So this requires federal reform, and most importantly, federal investments. Because the matter of the fact is, we need the federal government to provide more support to states like Massachusetts, to ensure that there are programs available that refugees and immigrants are able to benefit from that the state would then be responsible for actually putting out the expenditures and actually navigating it. Because the issue is right now is states are forced to use general revenues. And they’re very hesitant to do so because again, a state general revenue is a lot more limited than what you can get from federal support. So I think we saw more support from, again, respect to federal delegation members advocating for more refugee and immigrant based programs, than a lot of the states that are experiencing these issues will have a much smoother transition with their immigrant population.
Ian Donnis: In addition to being a state representative, you have kind of an alter ego in the professional wrestling world, you suffered a crushing defeat recently. Tell us a little bit about that and where your wrestling persona goes from here.
David Morales: Absolutely. So I serve as the Commissioner of the Renegade Wrestling Alliance, where I was previously the RWA hype champion for a record breaking 187 days that being six months and four days. And unfortunately, this past Friday in Providence, I did lose, I lost my championship and I’m still recovering socially and emotionally. However, the next step for Commissioner Morales, that’s a good question to ask. And that’s why fans keep on coming out to the shows we packed those venues with 200 plus people in attendance, and most particularly kids who are just jumping out of their seats and booing me. So as long as they continue to jeer me, I’ll continue to show up.
Ian Donnis: Well back in the world of politics, and speaking of next steps, I wonder if you one day aspire of running for higher office in Rhode Island.
David Morales: So generally, when I’m asked that question, I will often say that I do not have a particular ambition in mind, because I feel like the moment politicians start to think I want to be the next Governor, the next mayor, all their political decisions and calculations are based on that one sole goal instead of actually legislating and prioritizing public policy. I will say however, in the recent years that I’ve been introducing legislation, I have noticed that a lot of them are geared towards adjusting the budget. And I think there’s a lot of power within the executive branch, whether you’re looking at the city level, or you’re looking at the state level in terms of how We set the priorities and the negotiation table with other legislators. For example, if I was governor of the state, my budget would prioritize Health and Human Services, it would prioritize Medicaid reimbursement rates, it would focus on providing basic services. That way we have a functioning state.
Ian Donnis: You identify as a Democratic Socialist and the local chapter of Democratic Socialists ejected you from their organization after you supported Joe Shekarchi for speaker earlier this year, I wonder are organizations like that really marginalizing themselves by trying to remain so distanced from the Democratic mainstream at the Statehouse?
David Morales: I think there’s multiple schools of thoughts in terms of organizing, and I always think there needs to be a need for there to be some level of an antagonizing, right? Antagonizing leadership for not doing more or prioritizing the needs that we believe working people deserve. I will share that I don’t think it was a very controversial vote when I did vote for the speaker because the question I often ask myself in the chamber is are we making progress? Specifically, are we making progress to support working class families in need? And I would answer that my first two years in the legislature the answer was yes, we were raising the minimum wage. We’re making investments in the earned income tax credit that hadn’t been done for years. And so I understand that every organization is going to have a different political philosophy on how they want to organize. My priority is actually passing policy.
Ian Donnis: Love issues we could still cover but we’re limited for time so I’ll just ask what is your favorite restaurant in your state rep district?
David Morales: Machu Picchu II. Peruvian food, it’s delicious, especially the fried calamari ironically enough.
Ian Donnis: Mark it down. State Representative David Morales, Democrat of Providence, thank you so much for joining us.
David Morales: Thank you so much, Ian
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The payday lending industry is propelling a lawsuit aimed at eliminating the federal Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. As Nina Totenberg reported this week for NPR, the case could have wider implications for other federal agencies. She reports that most justices seem inclined to uphold how the CFPB is funded. A decision in the case is expected next year. The payday lending industry’s role in the case probably would not come as a surprise to critics in Rhode Island. Advocates have for years been trying to reduce the ability of payday lenders to charge the equivalent of triple-digit interest. There was a slight change this year when the Rhode Island House passed a measure to curb payday lending, although the measure died in the Senate. Will it be any different next year? Stay tuned. You can read more about this in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter and at The Public’s Radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Of course, this isn’t without some conflict, considering the amount of dubious information and conspiracy theories involving COVID. But Jha, who returned to Brown earlier this year after serving as the White House COVID-19 czar, seems to relish his role as a spokesman on public health. So what will it take to shift the disease-centered focus of much of American medicine? What does the future hold for Rhode Island’s hospital and healthcare landscape? And what can be done about all that misinformation? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with Dr. Ashish Jha.
TRANSCRIPT:
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Dr. Ashish Jha: Hey, thank you for having me here.
Ian Donnis: We see how COVID cases are climbing. And that seems likely to continue as we head into the winter. What do the next few months look like to you?
Dr. Ashish Jha: Yeah, look, we’re heading into another winter, where what I’m most worried about is really the triple-demic that we saw last winter: flu, RSV, and COVID. And what I’m most worried about, is unless we get our act together as a country, we’re going to see probably 100,000 Americans, mostly elderly, medically vulnerable, die. And so we have got to do everything we can to protect that population. Number one thing is we got to get older people vaccinated. That’s what’s going to keep people alive this winter. So yes, COVID is a problem. But I’m looking at the broader picture here.
Ian Donnis: Let’s switch gears we want to congratulate you on the celebration this week of the 10th anniversary of the School of Public Health at Brown University. As part of that, you said that you want to fundamentally change the face of public health in America. What do you mean by that?
Dr. Ashish Jha: Yeah, what I said was, I want to change the face of public health leadership in America. And what I meant by that, is, look, the public health workforce is pretty diverse. Public health leadership, still is not, we don’t have enough people. We don’t have enough people of color. We don’t have enough people who are from rural areas, we don’t have enough people who really represent the communities that are most impacted by public health. So we have launched a program called the Health Equity Scholars program at the school, that basically aims to train a whole new generation of public health leaders who are from those communities who are going to be far more effective and sensitive to the challenges that those communities face.
Ian Donnis: On a related note, the rap on health care in America is that too much of the focus is on treating disease. We see how Costa Rica has a model of emphasizing health and people there have a longer life expectancy than in the US. So what would it take to move more in that direction?
Dr. Ashish Jha: Well, there’s no question that investing more in public health is really, really important. Like, look, we can invest at the end of the path when people have got disease, we obviously should take care of people who are ill no question about it. But if we make investments upfront in keeping people healthier, promoting exercise, dealing with the opioid crisis, dealing with all the other social factors that drive health, we will make our population healthier. We have not done that as a country. Obviously, investing in primary care is another important part of that.
Ian Donnis: Rhode Island’s two largest hospital groups Lifespan and Care New England have faced some financial challenges because they rely heavily on Medicare and Medicaid for their payments which pay a lower percentage than private health insurance. From your perspective, what can be done to improve that situation?
Dr. Ashish Jha: Yeah, there’s no question here, that there are some substantial challenges that our health systems face. But I also believe that both of these health systems can be more effective, more efficient. I know that the new leaders of both of these systems are working on that. I think that’s going to make a big difference. And I think and we’ve started seeing some movements towards this, I think again, investing more in primary care, investing more in prevention, will lower the cost of health care over the long run. And I think that’s going to make an important difference as well.
Ian Donnis: My friend Ted Nesi at WPRI recently reported on the very high salaries paid to top executives at lifespan and care New England, and how spokespeople for those organizations cited the need to offer competitive pay regionally. But a nurse with a union said that when frontline workers asked for more money, they’re told if they want that go work in Boston. So is having a little hypocritical and if so, what would it take to narrow that disparity?
Dr. Ashish Jha: It’s a really good question. Look, there’s there’s some truth to both of these points, right? There is no doubt about it that you, you want the best leaders, you want the best managers. And that means that you often do have to pay what is quote unquote, market rate. But when we see these very large gaps between CEOs, large payouts, when they’re leaving, these are nonprofit organizations. And I think massive payouts when people are leaving just don’t make a lot of sense. And obviously, it’s hard to make the argument that someone deserves 10s of millions of dollars when you have a healthcare workers that are not getting paid adequately. So we really do need to make sure that that we’re addressing that issue directly.
Ian Donnis: To come back to the healthcare landscape in Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha, has been a kind of lonely and outspoken voice in criticizing a lack of long term plan, a lack of long term planning. He says without that there could be some serious problems. And even right now we hear about a shortage not just in Rhode Island but also Massachusetts of primary care doctors and nurses. So what do you think of Neronha’s criticism? Do you think he’s right?
Dr. Ashish Jha: The AG has, I think been very thoughtful on a lot of these issues. And I completely agree that we need a long term strategy here. So yes, both of these health systems are struggling. Obviously it’s important for them to get their finances in order for this year, but the long term health and well being of the people of Rhode Island depends on a long term successful set of health systems, like lifespan care New England, others. And so I completely agree with the AG that we need — sure we need some short term work. But we need a long term strategy here if we’re going to really make the health systems deliver for the people of Rhode Island.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking to here with Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of the School of Public Health at Brown University. And we see how it’s been a struggle to promote a public health based approach to trying to curb gun violence. Your former colleague, Dr. Megan Ranney, now at Yale was a leader in that and the White House recently launched an office to try and reduce gun violence that will, would probably go away if Donald Trump wins election next year. But how do you see the outlook for a greater emphasis on a public health based approach to reducing gun violence?
Dr. Ashish Jha: You know, I’m optimistic about it. And here’s why I mean, gun violence has now clearly become epidemic proportions, we’re seeing that it’s the number one cause of accidental deaths in kids. This is unacceptable, it should be unacceptable. And we have had the wrong fight about this we fight about do you take away guns? Or do you let people keep their guns. So I think the right approach on this is to say, when we saw cars, automobiles killing a lot of people, we didn’t say we should take away people’s cars. We said, Let’s make cars safer, let’s educate people, let’s take a public health approach to driving down automobile mortality. And we have, we’ve got to take the same approach to gun violence, we should have a country where people can keep their guns, but at the same time, have much much lower fatality rates than we do now.
Ian Donnis: You formally served as the White House coordinator on COVID. I don’t need to tell you that there’s a lot of conspiracy theories and bad information about COVID. I believe you’ve talked about the need to flood the zone with good information. And you have a big footprint on social media with more than 300,000 followers on X, formerly known as Twitter. But can that really overcome the amount of bad information that’s out there?
Dr. Ashish Jha: Yeah, you know it’s a really good question, Ian. And the way I look at this, is that there’s no question that flooding the zone with good information is important. And I’ve made that point. But there’s actually another important part of this, which is we often think about information as a supply side issue that what do we want to say to people? We don’t think about it as a demand side issue, meaning what do people want to know about? We have got to do a better job in public health in trying to understand what’s on people’s minds? What are the questions? You know, the misinformationists, they do a good job of that. So we in public health have to do a better job understanding what’s on people’s minds, and then give them good information. Until we do that we are not going to make the kind of progress we need to make.
Ian Donnis: I think we could agree there that some mistakes were made by government and public health officials when the pandemic started. Certainly a difficult situation to deal with. But what needs to be done to restore confidence for those people who feel that government and public health officials got some key issues wrong?
Dr. Ashish Jha: What I would remind them is no one got me everything right. This was a this was a pandemic, where, by definition, we didn’t know anything about the virus when it first appeared. And we all I think most people acted in good faith and try to get the answer, right, I think the mistakes are mistakes of the people often acted much more sure than they were, I think it’s been that’s a really important lesson. We didn’t have the right surveillance and disease systems, we didn’t know where the virus was spreading, we have made progress on that. The way I look at the long term building confidence is humility, taking a look at your mistakes, owning them, working on doing better, training people to do better. If we do those things, and we’re doing a lot of that at Brown for our next generation of public health leaders. If we do those things, I really do think we’re gonna build back a lot of that trust.
Ian Donnis: The good news on COVID Is that we see far fewer deaths and serious illnesses than there were at the height of the pandemic. Is that due mostly to vaccinations and how immunity has been built up over time.
Dr. Ashish Jha: There’s no question about it, that with immunity building up we have a virus that’s just causing less and less serious illness. But here’s the point. Even now, we have way more people dying of COVID than we do of influenza. And by the way, 30,000 Americans die of influenza every year of the flu that’s unnecessary, we can prevent most of those. So the reason is that we don’t have enough vulnerable Americans, people over 65 medically vulnerable, who are keeping up with their vaccines. If they do I think we can drive those steps even lower. Yes, we’re in a better place. I want us to get to a much, much better place than we are now.
Ian Donnis: Based on your former work in the White House. I’ve got to ask you, if Donald Trump was to regain the presidency, how would that affect public health in the US?
Dr. Ashish Jha: Well, look, I try not to think about what the future is going to do. Certainly politically, I don’t have any particular insights on what’s going to happen. What I know is that public health has gotta be a bipartisan issue. Because the virus does not discriminate. Opioids don’t discriminate. Gun violence doesn’t discriminate. And so whoever is in the White House, Public Health has got to remain at the top of that list of things to work on. And we’ve got to do it in a bipartisan way.
Ian Donnis: As I said a bit earlier, you have a big following on X, formerly known as Twitter. Some of those of us who are active on Twitter have some mixed feelings about how Elon Musk has managed it, there have been some changes for the worse. How do you look at that? Do you how do you assess whether Have you reconsidered getting off x? Or you see it otherwise?
Dr. Ashish Jha: You know, look at it, there’s no question about it that the amount of bad information on Twitter, X, whatever we call, it has really, in my mind, skyrocketed. But what I also know, is there a lot of people I follow for good information, there are a lot of people who follow me because they think I have useful things to say. And until there is an alternative. I think it’s really important to continue engaging, and sharing good information, I still think is a very important source of information. The hard part is sorting out the noise from the from the message, and I say to people is like find reliable voices and listen to them. That is the way to get good information on this platform.
Ian Donnis: One final question on COVID with about 30 seconds left, what is known at this point about the long term effects of multiple infections for one person?
Dr. Ashish Jha: It’s a very good question. Look, the bottom line is that the risk of long COVID long term complications is clearly declining. And we know that vaccines, prior infections, all of that lower your risk of future long COVID. One of the key reasons I tell people to stay up with their vaccines. It is going to lower your risk of long term complications.
Ian Donnis: Dr. Ashish Jha, Dean of the School of Public Health at Brown University. Thank you so much for joining us.
Dr. Ashish Jha: Thank you for having me here. It was a pleasure to be here.
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One of the wonders of contemporary life is how you can order something from Amazon and sometimes get it on your doorstep the same day. The mega-retailer has removed a lot of the friction in the buying process — and Jeff Bezos is reaping the rewards. But is this good for us as a society? What about the Amazon employees who complain about their punishing work conditions, or the many companies that can’t compete with Amazon? A huge distribution center is being built in Johnston, and town officials say payments from Amazon will fill a variety of local needs. Now, however, the Federal Trade Commission is suing Amazon, calling the company an illegal monopoly, and a number of attorneys general, including Rhode Island’s Peter Neronha, have signed onto the case. You can read more about this in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter and at The Public’s Radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
After a gusher of federal COVID money, the transit agency now faces a looming deficit next year. And it’s unclear where the money will come from to pay for an ambitious improvement plan — or even the continuation of free fares on RIPTA’s busiest bus line. The person responsible for addressing all this is RIPTA CEO Scott Avedisian, the longtime former mayor of Warwick. He says RIPTA is doing a good job with available resources. But Avedisian has been under fire from Senate President Dominick Ruggerio and state DOT Director Peter Alviti, who now chairs RIPTA’s board. So what will it take to improve public transit in Rhode Island? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with RIPTA CEO Scott Avedisian.
Ian Donnis: Welcome back to the public’s Radio. Thank you RIPTA has faced a perpetual struggle for adequate financial support and things have gotten more challenging due to declining gas tax revenue, is there a way to put RIPTA on track for a better future and a more reliable source of funding?
Scott Avedisian: So the governor’s office, the Office of Management and Budget, the State Department of Transportation and RIPTA have been meeting to talk about what are the alternatives to the gas tax and as more people electrify, we’re going to see a smaller and smaller, smaller yield on the gas tax each year. And so those discussions are ongoing. There are lots of models that are out there that other communities have thought about, maybe it’s vehicle miles traveled in an electric vehicle, maybe there’s an alternative. And all those things are still on the table and we’re working toward a good solution. You know, we were fortunate to get an awful lot of CARES Act money to really sustain us during the pandemic, that will run out with fiscal 2025. And so there’s some urgency to us all sitting down and figuring this out.
Ian Donnis: As you say, RIPTA, faces an expected budget hole in the next year or so of $30 million or more, has any way of resolving that been identified.
Scott Avedisian: No, that’s also part of the discussion. So whatever we do, we need to make sure that it takes care of DOT’s funding issues, because there’s three agencies that are funded with gas tax, there’s the Department of Transportation, Rhode Island Public Transit Authority, and the Turnpike and Bridge Authority. So we need to have a solution that helps all three. And so that we’re not tripping all over one another.
Ian Donnis: Has Governor McKee offered any assurance that more state money might be available?
Scott Avedisian: Well, let’s just put it this way. We have a lot of projects that are ongoing, that have been ongoing for a long time, because the state match wasn’t there. And this governor has really put in a commitment to the state match. So we just opened a new bus hub on the Knight Campus of CCRI. In Warwick. We are working on a new bus hub at the University of Rhode Island in Kingston. We are creating a passenger building at the Pawtucket/Central Falls train station and bus hub. We’re doing the East Side tunnel project that has been ongoing for years because we never had the match, we finally do have all the match. So we’re going to renovate the entire bus tunnel. So the governor has not said this is exactly how much you’re getting. But he certainly has been very willing to have discussions with us and talk about what we need and how we can best answer those questions.
Ian Donnis: RIPTA also has a transit master plan that proposes a series of improvements across the state. As usual, the big question is money, this would take at least $200 million to implement, possibly much more. Are there are funding sources identified for implementing the transit master plan?
Scott Avedisian: That’s also part of this discussion, because that’s a 20 year commitment. It won’t be all done in one year. And so what we have been looking at what is a low hanging fruit that we can do on our own through our existing budget, to make that work. But I think each piece falls into place, allowing the next event to happen. So I think the funding cycle needs to be fixed, then we need to work on what are the the federal grants that are available, and we’ve been very successful and competing for the competitive the competitive grant cycles that are out there. Hence the reason for the stockpiling of federal grants that once we got the state match, we can now do all these projects.
Ian Donnis: RIPTA is in the process of phasing out a pilot program of free fares on your busiest bus line, the R-line from Pawtucket to South Providence, it seemed like that really boosted ridership. Is there a way of sustaining free fares into the future?
Scott Avedisian: Well, we would need funding for that. So we have been looking at what kind of pilots can we do and what kinds of private entities can we bring in. So Discover Newport, which is the Aquidneck Island-based Tourism Council pays for a hop on hop off service on their busiest route all summer long. So they pay us for that service. The Episcopal Diocese of Rhode Island and the three Episcopal churches in Newport took some creation of care money that they had to fund a beach pilot program so people in the North End get to go to the beach for free. So we’re trying to build those relationships with other funders so that we can expand service. We have yet to find someone who’s going to fund the R-Line extension.
Ian Donnis: Rhode Island voters have usually been pretty generous in supporting bond proposals to pay and borrow money for various needs is there any thought being given to asking the voters to support bonding, to address some of these transit related issues involving RIPTA?
Scott Avedisian: That’s in the conversation as well. And in the mix, you know, you’re right, Rhode Islanders tend to be very supportive of bond issues. And they also seem to be very supportive of enhancements. And I think when we can show the connectivity with the Pawtucket/Central Falls, train station bus hub, and being able to go from there to TF green, and the way that that all fits in together, I think they will respond well, to those types of messages.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with Scott Avedisian, CEO of RIPTA, and a consortium of five firms was the only bidder recently to work with RIPTA on creating a new transit center that would move the focus for bus service away from Kennedy Plaza. Critics really questioned whether this is the right approach for the people who rely on RIPTA. What do you say to those concerns?
Scott Avedisian: Well, first and foremost, I think that we can have a better transit center, if we are able to build it from the ground up, and from the very beginning, make it passenger oriented and other amenities that could be added to that. So we’ve been looking at transit centers across the nation. We have some really positive work that we’ve done with some of our peer agencies. And so we’d like the consortium to look at what we think could be a real win for passengers, and then tell us what’s doable, what’s not doable? What works, what doesn’t work? And what other things that we didn’t add into that next.
Ian Donnis: No one has confirmed this, but there’s a lot of suspicion that this transit center may wind up in the I-195 District. Is that something that’s going to happen?
Scott Avedisian: Well, I don’t think anything is in or out at the moment, I think we’ve looked at a bunch of options. We’re in negotiations now with this consortium. So I don’t think we’ll have answers for another month or so. But I wouldn’t rule anything out.
Ian Donnis: You face criticism over recent years from DOT director, Peter Alviti. He is now the chair of your board. And there’s kind of a Rhode Island Senate flavor to the membership of your board with Robert Kells and Patrick Crowley, the secretary treasurer or the Rhode Island AFL-CIO. How does that affect your ability to execute your vision at RIPTA?
Scott Avedisian: Well, I’ve talked to Director Alviti all the time and have for years. So I think we have a shared vision as to where we need to go, and how we need to solve our problems and what enhancements we need to bring forward that will be of benefit to the people who are riders. You know, we’re back to a million passengers a month, which is really good. You know, we lost a lot during COVID. And it has been a slow recovery to get people back on the bus. But we’re back to almost pre-COVID levels. And I think that really bodes well for our future.
Ian Donnis: There was a controversy a while back when RIPTA tried hiring former Cranston Mayor Allan Fung as its lobbyist, and that did not go forward. But RIPTA has not traditionally had a lobbyist in contrast to even some more obscure quasi-public agencies and you know, that might be related to the funding struggles that RIPTA has faced. So why is RIPTA traditionally not had a lobbyist?
Scott Avedisian: I think that RIPTA always believed that they could do it on their own. And that’s not always the best path to take. Our former Board Chair, Norm Benoit, who has been involved for many, many years in a number of philanthropic groups really saw that a lobbyist who was needed and really pushed us to take that step. We interviewed a bunch of firms. And we chose Matty Lopes and his firm and they represented us well in this last session.
Ian Donnis: In your former life before RIPTA you were a popular and durable Republican as the mayor of Warwick for about 18 years. There’s been a lot of questions about the direction of the Republican Party nationally in recent years. I wonder, do still identify as a Republican?
Scott Avedisian: I’m still a registered Republican, but I haven’t really been involved since I left office. The most I’ve done is to be helpful to my successor, Frank Picozzi. I find it really interesting that Warwick is a reliably Democratic city but in the last 40 years, they’ve had two Democratic mayors each for one term. And that was Charlie Donovan in the late Joe Solomon. And now we have an independent so I think that people really do assess candidates. I think we’ve seen that time and again, where people that you weren’t necessarily think you were going to win elections come out of nowhere and steal the show.
Ian Donnis: In terms of assessing candidates, why do you think such a large swath of Republicans support Donald Trump?
Scott Avedisian: Well, I think, you know, the party has been solidly going to the right for many years. And I think he has a message that resonates with them. You know, I always came from the John Chafee wing of the party and felt very comfortable there. You know, I look back at the heyday of Rhode Island Republicans is when John Chafee was in the Senate, Claudine Schneider was in the house and Ron Machtley joined the house and Susie Farmer and Lila Sappinsley, those were the type of Republicans that I always identified with.
Ian Donnis: I’ve got to throw you a bone on your being a longtime Baltimore Orioles fan. I remember when you were mayor you used to have a Cal Ripken, Jr. Jersey in your office at City Hall. The Orioles have been in the wilderness for a long time, but they’re having a great season this year. Your thoughts?
Scott Avedisian: Well, I’ll tell you. One of the best things that we used to do when I was a page for John Chafee is we would jump on the train in Union Station and go out to Baltimore to watch Orioles games, and they were a great team then and they are proving to be a great team again this season.
Ian Donnis: Any prediction on how far they will go in the postseason?
Scott Avedisian: I never make predictions now.
Ian Donnis: All right. Probably a smart move. RIPTA CEO Scott Avedisian. Thank you so much for joining us.
Scott Avedisian: My pleasure.
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Jonathan Acosta had a good laugh this week. The state senator from Central Falls ruffled feathers at the Statehouse by wearing hoodies and other casual clothes after he won election in 2020. That was a challenge to the traditional business attire typical of Smith Hill. But now the U.S. Senate has ditched the dress code for senators. The change comes after Pennsylvania Democrat John Fetterman has been wearing shorts in the Capitol. Does clothing make the man — or the woman? Mark Twain — known for his famous white suits — wrote this about that centuries-old question, speaking in the voice of the czar of Russia, “clothes do not merely make the man, the clothes are the man; that without them he is a cipher, a vacancy, a nobody, a nothing .”You can read more about this in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter and at The Public’s Radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
She’s been credited with getting people to vote who had been estranged from politics. And after winning a close race for an open House seat in 2022, Cruz sponsored a bill this year to stop landlords from charging fees for rental applications. The measure became law. Other concerns for Cruz include reform of the criminal justice system and fostering equity in the state’s legalization of marijuana. So what does Cruz’s story mean for other people facing obstacles on the way to making a bigger impact in their own lives? And how much change can one person help to make? I’m Ian Donnis and this week I’m going in depth with Pawtucket state Rep Cherie Cruz.
Ian Donnis: Welcome to The Public’s Radio.
Cherie Cruz: Thank you for having me.
Ian Donnis: Let’s start with the recent primary in CD one you supported Aaron Regunberg, he was the perceived front runner but wound up finishing second to the more moderate Gabe Amo. What’s your explanation for why Amo won the Democratic primary?
Cherie Cruz: Oh, that’s a good question. Well, honestly, I think someone who had a large race for myself, I think hard work getting out there on the doors. And really being able to appeal to a more moderate group of voters, in my opinion, think it’s just a little of those things. Obviously, being from protected and having that homegrown story always helps. And I think those are some of the things based on my perspective,
Ian Donnis: There were some people who thought the Regunberg didn’t do as well, because he got an endorsement from AOC. In that, you know, his image was a little too far to the left. Do you agree or disagree?
Cherie Cruz: I disagree. I think, you know, I met a lot of people on the doors who actually said AOC endorsed Aaron, so I’m going with Aaron. So I did hear some positive feedback on the AOC endorsement. So based on what I heard, I’d have to disagree at this moment.
Ian Donnis: Well, let’s bring the focus back to you you completed your first legislative session earlier this year. I wonder how is the experience of being a state rep compared with what you thought it would be like?
Cherie Cruz: Yeah, well, I mean, it’s definitely a lot of hard work, especially for me, I want to be the best rep I can be. I want to be there for my constituents. So definitely hard work. I mean, it’s a part time legislature, which is really hard to understand, because to be there for your constituents, it is 24/7. So especially in my community, people are in need, people need to be heard, and we have a lot of problems to solve. So definitely a lot of hard work, but also two: it was very collegial, welcoming. And that was a surprise to me, from someone being an organizer on the outside. So definitely, that was a surprise. Everybody was really supportive, the other reps, so I think that was a positive thing that came out too.
Ian Donnis: You were the driving force in the House of Representatives behind the bill that became law to prohibit landlords from charging application fees to people seeking apartments. The argument was that that can add up to a lot of money if people are putting in multiple applications. And landlords are a powerful constituency. So I wonder how were you able to overcome obstacles while advocating for that measure?
Cherie Cruz: I think that this housing crisis definitely was part of the reason we were able to get it passed, and, and other representatives who were pushing other housing agendas, but I mean, with the rental application fees, I’ve seen it time and time again, in my community, it was a disincentive to actually fill housing. So it was really a part of the housing crisis. And then also, too, we were seeing people apply to multiple units, and only to be denied within five minutes. So you know, it really started to smell like a scam. And we knew it was, those of us on the ground who are renters. And then in my community, I gotta tell you, a lot of the landlords are out of state, or vacant landlords, so they’re not there. They’re not our voters. They’re not the people in our community. So I think that was very helpful, too. I mean, we’ve got to remember that, that we’ve got a lot of corporate landlords here in our state that don’t live here. So we shouldn’t be afraid to level the playing field for tenants.
Ian Donnis: There a few months before you and your fellow lawmakers returned to the General Assembly in January for a new session. I wonder what are your top priorities for the next session?
Cherie Cruz: Oh yeah. So let’s continue on housing. I mean, we passed some really good bills, making sure on the ground that we implement those, that we make them work for us, the rental registry, the rental application fee, the lead escrow bill, just really working on that, and then also right to counsel and mediation before eviction. And this is really important, because we see nationwide, tenants go to court, you know, up to 90% without representation, but landlords. I mean, landlords have representation up to 90% of the time, whereas tenants only have 10%. So that’s really troubling, because you think you’re going to something, you know, an eviction hearing, and you don’t know the rules. And one side has the playbook. And so really, again, it’s about making sure everyone has that right to counsel. And even some measures like mediation before you even make it to the courthouse, because then we’ll see people can stay in their homes, or people be able to have more time if they do have to move and we’ve seen it time and time again nationwide that it really levels the playing field. When it comes to to people and homelessness, right. And that’s, that’s what we want to get at. So that’s an important bill, as well as criminal legal reforms. So looking at Clean Slate legislation, and continuing on some of the great work we did with cannabis, right and looking at automatic expungement. But now doing this with records in general, criminal legal records, or not. Because we have a problem right now that whatever’s on your record, whether you were convicted or charged, it was dismissed, it’s there on your criminal background record. And then it creates barriers to housing, employment. So we really want to look at and expand our expungement laws, and also clean up our records in our databases, so people can have an opportunity and a chance to survive and thrive here in Rhode Island,
Ian Donnis: There was a great profile of you in the Providence Journal last year by Antonia Farzan. It described how you overcame a lot of challenges, including poverty to pursue your education, you wound up obtaining two degrees from Brown University, and now you’re a state representative. So how can Rhode Island as a state do more to help people who face challenges to to do more and overcome those challenges and lead better lives?
Cherie Cruz: Yeah, there’s so many things we can do. And so many policies, and I think even in this last congressional race, we saw a wide array of candidates, right, and from different backgrounds and experiences. So we’re starting to see democracy open up. That’s how I like to talk about it. Both my parents died without ever having the right to vote, because of a criminal legal record. And even myself until 2006, when we passed it here in Rhode Island, and I was part of that advocacy. So I really believe in expanding again, back on clean slate and clearing records and giving people opportunities, but also safe and affordable houses to live. I mean, I myself was experiencing homelessness had Section Eight, lived in public housing, and it’s important that we have safe housing, and then opportunities to education. I mean, the schools in my community are falling apart. And it’s to say, it looks even worse than when I went there, you know, 40 years ago, and I’m like, wow, this is there’s something we need to do here. And those were some of the barriers for me when I was young and had to overcome as an adult. So I think we need to continue doing more. And we’re on that path.
Ian Donnis: We’re talking here with State Representative Cherie Cruz of Pawtucket. And as you said, you’ve had a lot of experiences that are not widely shared by your colleagues in the legislature. How do you think that? What difference does that make that you bring your life experience to the General Assembly?
Cherie Cruz: Well, I think that personal experience brings passion, detailed knowledge, that firsthand experience is so important. Because how would you know it otherwise you know theory in real life are two different things. And in you need them, you need both of them. And we have a lot of great people at the Statehouse who have theory and knowledge and educational background, but we really need to balance it out with that real life experience. Because we know the pros and cons when we see something 10 steps ahead. So it’s really important that we look at it and able to share our feedback to make it the best policy, the best legislation we can.
Ian Donnis: Talking about the difference between theory and real life. I did a story a year or two ago about the state’s legalization of marijuana and how there were concerns that all the talk about social equity and helping people who are hurt by the drug war might not really match the intention of the program. Time’s gone by, how would you say the social equity program is working out?
Cherie Cruz: Well, I think on the ground, originally as an organizer, people are hopeful. They’re organizing, they’re getting together, they’re getting up their business skills and learning because they want to take part in this social equity licensing. So I see that vibrant and hope happening on the ground. On the state level, we’re still working on it. Right? We just got the commission together. And I’m really hopeful. I know Kim Ahern is there, and I have a lot of faith in her and to make sure that we’re able to do it. I haven’t seen results yet. But I’m looking forward to it and want to continue advocating to make sure that it reaches its potential.
Ian Donnis: You talked a little bit earlier about the challenges that can exist for a person if they’ve been convicted of a crime, they got a prison, they might be trying to do the right thing, but a record can make it very difficult for them to get a job. Moving forward, how can the state better balanced that I mean, on one hand, you know, people would say there’s a right to know if someone’s been convicted of a serious crime how to balance that with giving someone the opportunity for a fresh start.
Cherie Cruz: Yeah, and I think it’s basically: someone’s did their time, right so here they are back in the communities so they should be able to work and live. I mean, if we don’t provide those opportunities were becoming more unsafe. So it’s like we need to think about again, like with expungement laws but also to asking on applications when you know, we fought and I was part of that advocacy to “ban the box.” And there’s, you know, laws on the books that aren’t being enforced. So we want to make sure that people have those rights that we are being the boss, that people have the right to explain some of their past. I mean, even with the cannabis, you know, legalization we talked about, if it’s not related or fair chance licensing, if it’s not related to that job, then it shouldn’t be a factor. And I think we need to do more, you know, just in educating people around that, and opening the doors because again, if people do care about safety, and they don’t want someone with past, right, well, you’re gonna it’s going to create more of an unsafe condition if people can’t work or, or have housing.
Ian Donnis: One of the big stories in Pawtucket is the ongoing effort to build a soccer arena that seems to be moving forward a little bit more now than in the past. I wonder what your thoughts are about that project? Is it a good thing for Pawtucket? Will that help the city in your view?
Cherie Cruz: Yeah, you know, I get a lot of calls from my constituents on this one. And, and me personally, like why I ran: to support people struggling the most and, you know, a soccer stadiums is wonderful. Do I think it’s the time for it? No. Do I hear that from constituents? Yes. They don’t think it’s the time for it. Because we do have housing and education, and crises making sure people just can survive every day. So I think overall, a soccer stadium is beautiful. Bring it in, we had McCoy stadium, and unfortunately, you know, dealing with that loss. But I think, you know, honestly, this isn’t the time for an investment in something that’s a recreational pastime, that may only benefit a private interest or not the public because it’s not a public stadium. It’s not somewhere where kids can go play. So I think that’s something that we need to think about, and it’s something great to go for, but we do have a lot of more pressing needs in front of us right now.
Ian Donnis: We’re out of time, so we need to leave it there. State Representative Cherie Cruz, Democrat of Pawtucket. Thank you so much for sitting down with us.
Cherie Cruz: Thank you so much for having me, Ian.
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The bonds between fellow Marines was one theme when GOP Congressman Jack Bergman of Michigan this week endorsed Gerry Leonard, the Republican running in CD1. But it’s another association for Bergman that might give some voters pause; he was among more than 140 House Republicans who voted against certifying the presidential vote in 2020. Leonard calls himself a moderate who doesn’t believe in election denialism. But the views of some national Republicans could shadow his challenge to CD1 Democrat Gabe Amo in their general election contest. You can read more about that in my weekly TGIF column, posting around 4 this afternoon on what used to be known as Twitter and at The Public’s Radio dot org.
That’s our show for this week. Our producer is James Baumgartner.
I’m Ian Donnis and I’ll see you on the radio.
Gabe Amo made history when he won the Democratic primary in Rhode Island’s First Congressional District earlier this week. The Pawtucket native and former White House aide could become the first person of color to represent the state in Congress.
Rhode Island voters will decide the outcome of two primaries in the First Congressional District next Tuesday. The Democratic side of the race has gotten most of the attention, since the district is heavily Democratic and the primary winner has a strong chance of coming out on top during the general election.
In the race last year for the seat formerly held by Langevin, Democrat Seth Magaziner beat Republican former Cranston Mayor Allan Fung by almost four percentage points. Magaziner kept CD2 in Democratic hands, but he has little seniority in Congress and Republicans control the House of Representatives. So how much can he get done, and how concerned is he that Donald Trump may be able to regain the White House in 2024?
Narragansett Beer used to be the best-selling lager in New England and it sponsored the Red Sox baseball back in the day. But by the turn of the century, Narragansett faced an uncertain future. Then in 2005, Rumford native Mark Hellendrung spearheaded a resurgence for the brand after buying it with a group of investors.
The last GOP governor was elected in 2006 and the party holds just 14 of 113 legislative seats. Now, can Rhode Island Republicans overcome their long-term challenges to play a more muscular role in local politics? This week, our guest is the new Republican chairman in the Ocean State, Joe Powers.
This week: Dr. Michael Fine who served as head of the state Department of Public Health from 2011 to 2015. He is now a writer, community activist and chief health strategist for the city of Central Falls. And Christopher Koller who served as the nation’s first health insurance commissioner. He is now president of the Millbank Memorial Fund, a public health foundation.
he Rhode Island Association of Realtors recently reported that despite national trends, the median price of a home in the state is still climbing. The median single-family home now costs $443,000, the most ever and a three percent hike from the same time last year. That cost helps to explain why Rhode Island faces a housing crisis.
The Rhode Island House of Representatives passed the most recent state budget in just about three hours last month. That rapid pace reflects strong support in the chamber for House Speaker Joe Shekarchi. But will Skekarchi’s popularity translate into progress on Rhode Island’s toughest issues, including improving public schools and creating a stronger economy? And what does Mr. Speaker have to say about the paralysis gripping attempts to redevelop the Cranston Street Armory, and the signature-gathering controversy dogging Sabina Matos’ congressional campaign?
Ana Quezada has won election four times as a state senator from Providence. Now, she’s targeting a loftier goal: the vacant seat in Rhode Island’s First Congressional District.
Stephanie Beauté is hoping to translate her interest in politics into a seat in Congress. She ran as last year for secretary of state and is now part of the large Democratic field competing in the First Congressional District.
Brett Smiley has benefited by presenting a fresh face as the mayor of Providence. But the city’s underlying fiscal challenges are never far from the surface. Smiley’s first budget proposed raising residential taxes by 5 percent. Conventional wisdom holds that the first year of a new administration is the time to raise taxes. But Rhode Island’s capital city faces other challenges, including the slowdown on development caused by high interest rates.
Gabe Amo is well known by political reporters and other people who play close attention to Rhode Island politics. The son of immigrants from Africa, Amo grew up in Pawtucket and most recently worked in the White House as deputy director of intergovernmental affairs.
“I do the work of the community for the community. And I will continue doing that if elected to Congress.”
As one of more than 15 Democrats running for the open seat in Rhode Island’s 1st Congressional District, Don Carlson has had a broad range of experiences.
U.S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse has talked for years about the rightward move of the Supreme Court and the influence of the Federalist Society in shifting the judiciary. Now, following revelations about how a wealthy GOP donor treated Clarence Thomas to luxury trips, more Americans’ share Whitehouse’s concerns.
Neil Steinberg is ending his time as president and CEO of the Rhode Island Foundation, the state’s top philanthropic organization. He started 15 years ago, in 2008, in the teeth of the Great Recession, after working in leadership roles at Fleet Bank and Brown University. Steinberg is credited with more than doubling the assets of the Rhode Island Foundation, and almost doubling the number of grants awarded to local nonprofits.
The past year has been an eventful time for Rhode Island Governor Dan McKee. He won a narrow victory in a five-way Democratic primary last September. Then, in November, McKee crushed Republican opponent Ashley Kalus, to win his first full term as governor.
John Goncalves describes himself as the embodiment of Rhode Island’s motto of “hope.” Now the second-term Providence city councilman is one of the 15 Democrats running in RI's 1st Congressional District.
Rhode Island’s almost $10 billion state pension fund is in better shape than it was in 2011.
With a swing of a few thousand votes in 2018, Aaron Regunberg would have been on a path to become Rhode Island’s governor -- before his 30th birthday. The former two-term state representative from Providence is running for the open seat in Rhode Island’s First Congressional District.
Cedric Huntley has been a leader in efforts to reduce violence in Providence for more than 20 years. He serves as executive director of the Nonviolence Institute, which deploys street workers to mediate conflicts and try to stop violence before it happens.
Christina Paxson marked her 10-year anniversary as president of Brown University last year.
Sabina Matos made history when she became Rhode Island’s first Latina Lieutenant Governor in 2021. Now, she’s trying to make history again, as the first Democratic woman to represent the Ocean State in Congress.
Helena Buonanno Foulkes announced this week she’s not running for the open seat in Rhode Island’s First Congressional District. Now that she’s not a candidate, what does the former CVS executive have to say about the top challenges facing Rhode Island?
New Bedford Mayor Jon Mitchell claims credit for boosting investment in the port and positioning the former whaling capital to be a leader in the emerging offshore wind industry. New Bedford has a gold mine in its fishing port, arguably the most valuable one in the U.S. But businesses in the seafood industry fear a negative effect from the growth of wind power. What does Mitchell have to say about all this?
Peter Alviti is the longest serving cabinet member in state government in Rhode Island. But the RIDOT chief also has a share of critics. Some of them sounded off during a state Senate confirmation hearing this week, charging that Alviti is too focused on cars.
Stefan Pryor started on the job as Rhode Island’s secretary of housing earlier this month. Pryor was previously the state’s top economic-development official. He has his work cut out for him in the new role.
Providence still faces problems that have persisted for years, including under-performing schools and an under-funded pension system. Will Smiley be able to make more progress than his predecessors?
With an acute housing crisis in Rhode Island, Ian Donnis talks with the head of One Neighborhood Builders, a non-profit developer.
The recent death of Tyre Nichols at the hands of Memphis police came almost three years after the death of George Floyd.
Rhode Island lawmakers have found themselves in unfamiliar territory in recent years, thanks to consecutive budget surpluses. The black bottom line is thanks to a windfall of federal COVID aid and higher than expected state tax revenue. Because of the surpluses, lawmakers have not had to wrestle recently with the big annual deficits that had been the norm for more than 20 years.
COVID is bouncing back. Yeah, we’re all tired of the pandemic, but the XBB.1.5 variant really doesn’t care. This highly infectious bug is surging across the US, including in Rhode Island, where the number of COVID cases is spiking. So why does this matter, and where do things go from here?
Thirty-four-year-old Ryan Pearson is the first Millennial to hold a key leadership post in the Rhode Island Senate; he won election in November as the second-ranking member of the chamber. Pearson stopped by our studio to discuss housing, healthcare and a range of other issues, on Political Roundtable.
Ian Donnis: Rhode Island House Speaker Joe Shekarchi, welcome back to The Public's Radio.
State Rep-elect Megan Cotter is one of 12 new state representatives elected last month.
Rhode Island moves ahead with legal adult-use recreational cannabis. Plus, the problem of hunger in the Ocean State.
State Representative Gregg Amore, an East Providence Democrat, won election last week as Rhode Island’s next secretary of state. He will succeed outgoing Secretary of State Nellie Gorbea in January. Amore stopped by our studio to discuss his approach to the office, the issue of denialism in elections and more.
Democrats defied expectations in the midterm election that ended Tuesday. In Rhode Island, Seth Magaziner shocked Republican Allan Fung by winning the open seat in the Second Congressional District, and as expected, Governor Dan McKee defeated GOP rival Ashley Kalus. Democrats pretty much ran the table in Rhode Island. But Republicans are expected to win control of the U.S. House, and that would mean big obstacles for President Biden’s agenda in Congress. Both parties will fight for advantage in the run-up to the 2024 presidential race.
Rhode Islanders will decide a series of key political races when the current campaign season ends Tuesday. Will Allan Fung become the first Republican to win a U.S. House seat in Rhode Island in about 30 years? And will Democratic Governor Dan McKee win a full four-year term? And what does the relatively tepid turnout of mid-term elections say about the health of our democracy? The end of the election next week is a prelude to the 2024 presidential contest, and this comes at a time of heightened political division in the United States.
The race in Rhode Island’s Second Congressional District continues to heat up, with a flurry of new campaign ads this week, more national coverage and a visit by First Lady Jill Biden. There are now less than two weeks before voters choose between Democrat Seth Magaziner and Republican Allan Fung. All indications point to a close race, although Fung has had a small lead in a series of polls. The longtime former mayor of Cranston hopes to become the first Republican to represent Rhode Island in Congress in almost 30 years.
The last Republican lieutenant governor in Rhode Island was Bernie Jackvony – and he was appointed to fill that role back in the late 1990s. And a lot of people question whether Rhode Island really needs a lieutenant governor. That question notwithstanding, Dan McKee was in the right place at the right time when, thanks to his being lieutenant governor, he succeeded Gina Raimondo as governor in March 2021. McKee ran a contest to come up with the next lieutenant governor, and he chose Providence City Council President Sabina Matos. But now, a first-time candidate wants to bring the lieutenant governor’s office back under Republican control.
The Democratic mainstream in the Rhode Island General Assembly was typified for years by lawmakers who opposed abortion rights and supported gun rights. Over time, that began to change. Grassroots energy fueled the legalization of same-sex marriage in 2013. Six years later, in 2019, Rhode Island passed a state-based law protecting abortion rights. And earlier this year, the ruling Democrats on Smith Hill backed bills imposing new restrictions on guns. At the same time, voters earlier this month rejected an effort by one progressive group, the Rhode Island Political Cooperative, to stage a takeover of state government. And Republican candidates are hoping to increase their representation in local elective offices this November.
This week, I’m going one on one with Ashley Kalus. I’ll talk with one of the leading legislative supporters of ranked choice voting. And we’ll hear about the role diversity plays in the Westerly political arena.
Welcome to Political Roundtable: Election 2022. For this election season, we’re presenting a half-hour weekly show exploring the key races, the issues in Rhode Island and southeastern Massachusetts, and we’ll hear from you, the voters, about what’s most important to you in this election year.
This election season, we’ll be presenting a half-hour weekly show exploring the key races and the issues in Rhode Island and southeastern Massachusetts, and we’ll hear from you, the voters, about what’s most important to you in this election year.
This week on Political Roundtable, we hear from a progressive RI Senate candidate and the GOP leader in that chamber.
The guest on Political Roundtable this week is RI House Speaker Joe Shekarchi (D-Warwick).
Stefan Pryor, one of two Democrats running to be RI's next general treasurer, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Democratic candidate for governor Nellie Gorbea, Rhode Island's secretary of state, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Helena Buonanno Foulkes, one of five major Democratic candidates for governor, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island General Treasurer, a Democrat running in the 2nd Congressional District, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Sarah Morgenthau, one of six Democrats running for an open seat in Rhode Isalnd's 2nd Congressional District, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Republicans have struggled to win more elective offices in Rhode Island, but the GOP hopes this year will be different. Today on Political Roundtable, we hear from two Republican candidates, James Lathrop, who is running for general treasurer and Jeann Lugo, who wants to be lieutenant governor.
The former director of communications to Rhode Island Governor Gina Raimondo is running on the Democratic side for Rhode Island's 2nd Congressional District.
Allan Fung is running for an open seat in Rhode Island’s Second Congressional District.
Providence Public Safety Commission Steven Pare is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
David Segal, one of six Democrats running for an open seat in Rhode Island's Second Congressional District, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Ward 3 Providence City Councilor Nirva LaFortune, one of four Democrats running to be the next mayor of Providence, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Ward 3 Providence City Councilor Nirva LaFortune, one of four Democrats running to be the next mayor of Providence, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Republican candidate for governor Ashley Kalus is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Republican candidate for governor Ashley Kalus is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Brett Smiley joins Political Roundtable this week to discuss his campaign as one of four Democrats running to the next mayor of Providence.
Brett Smiley joins Political Roundtable this week to discuss his campaign as one of four Democrats running to the next mayor of Providence.
Lisa Ranglin, founder and president of the RI Black Business Association, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Lisa Ranglin, founder and president of the RI Black Business Association, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Blake Filippi (R-New Shoreham), the Republican minority leader in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Blake Filippi (R-New Shoreham), the Republican minority leader in the Rhode Island House of Representatives, is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
RI Secretary of State Nellie Gorbea, a Democratic candidate for governor, joins Political Roundtable this week.
RI Secretary of State Nellie Gorbea, a Democratic candidate for governor, joins Political Roundtable this week.
Brown University President Christina Paxson is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Brown University President Christina Paxson is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
RI House Speaker Joe Shekarchi (D-Warwick) is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
RI House Speaker Joe Shekarchi (D-Warwick) is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Georgia Hollister Isman, New England regional director for the Working Families Party, and state Sen.
Georgia Hollister Isman, New England regional director for the Working Families Party, and state Sen.
In her first detailed comments on the subject as a gubernatorial candidate, former CVS Health executive Helena Foulkes said she moved quickly to change the giant retailer’s approach to dispensing opioids after learning of potential problems.
In her first detailed comments on the subject as a gubernatorial candidate, former CVS Health executive Helena Foulkes said she moved quickly to change the giant retailer’s approach to dispensing opioids after learning of potential problems.
Democrat Matt Brown, who announced his run for governor earlier this year, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Democrat Matt Brown, who announced his run for governor earlier this year, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
The legal fight over making South Water Street more welcoming to bicyclists and pedestrians is over, following an announcement last week by the state Department of Transportation.
The legal fight over making South Water Street more welcoming to bicyclists and pedestrians is over, following an announcement last week by the state Department of Transportation.
Luis Daniel Muñoz, one of six announced or expected Democrats running for governor of Rhode Island, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Luis Daniel Muñoz, one of six announced or expected Democrats running for governor of Rhode Island, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Nirva LaFortune, Ward 3 city councilor and candidate for mayor of Providence, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Nirva LaFortune, Ward 3 city councilor and candidate for mayor of Providence, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Second District Congressman Jim Langevin (D-RI) is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Second District Congressman Jim Langevin (D-RI) is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Rhode Island General Treasurer Seth Magaziner, who announced his campaign Tuesday for governor, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island General Treasurer Seth Magaziner, who announced his campaign Tuesday for governor, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island House Whip Katherine Kazarian (D-East Providence) is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island House Whip Katherine Kazarian (D-East Providence) is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Gun rights advocate Brenda Jacob of West Greenwich is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Gun rights advocate Brenda Jacob of West Greenwich is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
A string of violent episodes has sparked heightened concern about crime in Rhode Island’s capital city, Providence.
A string of violent episodes has sparked heightened concern about crime in Rhode Island’s capital city, Providence.
This week, we have a special extended edition of Political Roundtable with RI Speaker of the House Joe Shekarchi, educator and progressive activist Enrique Sanchez and our own Ana Gonzalez, host of Mosaic.
This week, we have a special extended edition of Political Roundtable with RI Speaker of the House Joe Shekarchi, educator and progressive activist Enrique Sanchez and our own Ana Gonzalez, host of Mosaic.
Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha is my guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Rhode Island Attorney General Peter Neronha is my guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Two years ago, a Johns Hopkins University report painted a devastating picture of the schools in Providence. The report found that most students were not learning at their grade level, teachers were demoralized, and most parents felt shut out of their children’s education.
Two years ago, a Johns Hopkins University report painted a devastating picture of the schools in Providence. The report found that most students were not learning at their grade level, teachers were demoralized, and most parents felt shut out of their children’s education.
Rhode Island Education Commissioner Angélica Infante-Green sits down for a one-on-one interview this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island Education Commissioner Angélica Infante-Green sits down for a one-on-one interview this week on Political Roundtable.
Steve Brown, executive director of the RI ACLU, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Steve Brown, executive director of the RI ACLU, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Linda Finn, the executive director of the Rhode Island Coalition Against Gun Violence, joins Political Roundtable as our guest this week.
Linda Finn, the executive director of the Rhode Island Coalition Against Gun Violence, joins Political Roundtable as our guest this week.
Rhode Island Secretary of State Nellie Gorbea is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Rhode Island Secretary of State Nellie Gorbea is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Matt Weldon, director of the Rhode Island Department of Labor and Training, is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Matt Weldon, director of the Rhode Island Department of Labor and Training, is the guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Jim Vincent, president of the Providence NAACP, is our guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Jim Vincent, president of the Providence NAACP, is our guest on Political Roundtable this week.
Kate Coyne-McCoy, chief strategist for the RI Democratic Party, is our guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Kate Coyne-McCoy, chief strategist for the RI Democratic Party, is our guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Brown University President Christina Paxson is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Brown University President Christina Paxson is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Brett Smiley, who is among a series of candidates running for mayor of Providence in 2022, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Brett Smiley, who is among a series of candidates running for mayor of Providence in 2022, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
How can Rhode Island best use the more than $1 billion it will receive as part of the stimulus plan championed by President Biden?
How can Rhode Island best use the more than $1 billion it will receive as part of the stimulus plan championed by President Biden?
Gonzalo Cuervo, one of the Democrats running to succeed Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza in 2022, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Gonzalo Cuervo, one of the Democrats running to succeed Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza in 2022, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
State Rep. Brianna Henries never expected to run for office. But that didn't stop her from landing a seat last year in the Rhode Island House of Representatives. The East Providence Democrat joins Political Roundtable to discuss her political journey and what she hopes to accomplish.
State Rep. Brianna Henries never expected to run for office. But that didn't stop her from landing a seat last year in the Rhode Island House of Representatives. The East Providence Democrat joins Political Roundtable to discuss her political journey and what she hopes to accomplish.
Michael McCaffrey of Warwick became the second-ranking RI Senate Democrat in 2017. He joins Political Roundtable this week to discuss the changing dynamics of the Senate and a range of issues.
Michael McCaffrey of Warwick became the second-ranking RI Senate Democrat in 2017. He joins Political Roundtable this week to discuss the changing dynamics of the Senate and a range of issues.
RI House Majority Leader Chris Blazejewski joins Political Roundtable to discuss the storming of the US Capitol and other subjects, including.
RI House Majority Leader Chris Blazejewski joins Political Roundtable to discuss the storming of the US Capitol and other subjects, including.
Ted Nesi from WPRI-TV, Channel 12, joins the panel as we break down Election 2020 in this episode of Political Roundtable.
Ted Nesi from WPRI-TV, Channel 12, joins the panel as we break down Election 2020 in this episode of Political Roundtable.
With the exception of a verdict, Rhode Island’s big political trial of 2020 is in the books.
With the exception of a verdict, Rhode Island’s big political trial of 2020 is in the books.
Barbara Ann Fenton-Fung is running for Rhode Island House of Representatives in District 15, the seat currently held by House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello
Barbara Ann Fenton-Fung is running for Rhode Island House of Representatives in District 15, the seat currently held by House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello
Jim Vincent, President of the Providence branch of the NAACP is the guest this week on Political Roundtable. Chuck Hinman fills in for Ian Donnis as host.
Jim Vincent, President of the Providence branch of the NAACP is the guest this week on Political Roundtable. Chuck Hinman fills in for Ian Donnis as host.
Michelle McGaw of Portsmouth, who won nearly 80 percent of the vote in a Democratic primary in House District 71 this week, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
Michelle McGaw of Portsmouth, who won nearly 80 percent of the vote in a Democratic primary in House District 71 this week, is the guest this week on Political Roundtable.
RI state Sen. Ryan Pearson (D-Cumberland) joins Bonus Q&A to discuss the controversy involving the Joint Committee on Legislative Services, the hiring and spending arm of the legislature; why taxpayers are not getting a better return on their investment in education; his political future; and whether his proposal to steer more tax money to education is going anywhere.
RI state Sen. Ryan Pearson (D-Cumberland) joins Bonus Q&A to discuss the controversy involving the Joint Committee on Legislative Services, the hiring and spending arm of the legislature; why taxpayers are not getting a better return on their investment in education; his political future; and whether his proposal to steer more tax money to education is going anywhere.
Rhode Island state Sen. Ryan Pearson (D-Cumberland) joins Political Roundtable to talk about the coronavirus and how it will impact the General Assembly, the state budget outlook, and the public's ability to take part in politics in the state.
Rhode Island state Sen. Ryan Pearson (D-Cumberland) joins Political Roundtable to talk about the coronavirus and how it will impact the General Assembly, the state budget outlook, and the public's ability to take part in politics in the state.
Ross Cheit, who spent 15 years as a member of the Rhode Island Ethics Commission, including about half that time as chairman, joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of topics related to the commission and state politics.
Ross Cheit, who spent 15 years as a member of the Rhode Island Ethics Commission, including about half that time as chairman, joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of topics related to the commission and state politics.
Brown University professor Ross Cheit, who recently stepped down as chairman of the Rhode Island Ethics Commission, joins Political Roundtable to discuss the impact of Super Tuesday and whether the commission is doing enough to police ethics in the state.
Brown University professor Ross Cheit, who recently stepped down as chairman of the Rhode Island Ethics Commission, joins Political Roundtable to discuss the impact of Super Tuesday and whether the commission is doing enough to police ethics in the state.
June Speakman, who won a special election last year for a Rhode Island House seat representing Bristol and Warren, joins Bonus Q&A this week. The topics include the outlook for reform in the chamber, how Warren is being affected by climate change, and why Speakman did not sign on to a letter released by a group of critics of leadership.
June Speakman, who won a special election last year for a Rhode Island House seat representing Bristol and Warren, joins Bonus Q&A this week. The topics include the outlook for reform in the chamber, how Warren is being affected by climate change, and why Speakman did not sign on to a letter released by a group of critics of leadership.
Rhode Island state Rep. June Speakman (D-Warren) joins Political Roundtable to discuss the focus on House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello and the evolving Democratic race for president.
Rhode Island state Rep. June Speakman (D-Warren) joins Political Roundtable to discuss the focus on House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello and the evolving Democratic race for president.
Twin River Worldwide Holdings' Executive Vice President Marc Crisafulli joins Bonus Q&A to discuss an array of questions related to gambling.
Twin River Worldwide Holdings' Executive Vice President Marc Crisafulli joins Bonus Q&A to discuss an array of questions related to gambling.
Marc Crisafulli, executive vice president of Twin River Worldwide Holdings, joins Political Roundtable to discuss the proposed deal between IGT and Twin River, whether southern New England has reached the saturation point on gambling, and the fight among Democratic presidential candidates.
Marc Crisafulli, executive vice president of Twin River Worldwide Holdings, joins Political Roundtable to discuss the proposed deal between IGT and Twin River, whether southern New England has reached the saturation point on gambling, and the fight among Democratic presidential candidates.
RI GOP National Committeewoman Lee Ann Sennick joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of issues involving Republican politics, including the dispute over the hiring and spending arm of the legislature, the outlook for GOP legislative candidates, and more.
RI GOP National Committeewoman Lee Ann Sennick joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of issues involving Republican politics, including the dispute over the hiring and spending arm of the legislature, the outlook for GOP legislative candidates, and more.
RI GOP National Committeewoman Lee Ann Sennick joins Political Roundtable to discuss the Democratic race for governor, the Roger Stone controversy, and whether conservatives would prefer a different House speaker in Rhode Island.
RI GOP National Committeewoman Lee Ann Sennick joins Political Roundtable to discuss the Democratic race for governor, the Roger Stone controversy, and whether conservatives would prefer a different House speaker in Rhode Island.
RI state Rep. Teresa Tanzi (D-South Kingstown) joins Bonus Q&A to discuss legislative leaders' big spend of campaign money on food and meals, and a range of other legislative issues, including the results of a legislative panel on sexual harassment and the outlook for female legislative candidates this year.
RI state Rep. Teresa Tanzi (D-South Kingstown) joins Bonus Q&A to discuss legislative leaders' big spend of campaign money on food and meals, and a range of other legislative issues, including the results of a legislative panel on sexual harassment and the outlook for female legislative candidates this year.
RI state Rep. Teresa Tanzi (D-South Kingstown) joins Political Roundtable to discuss the spotlight on House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello, Democrats' search for a presidential candidate, and impeachment fallout.
RI state Rep. Teresa Tanzi (D-South Kingstown) joins Political Roundtable to discuss the spotlight on House Speaker Nicholas Mattiello, Democrats' search for a presidential candidate, and impeachment fallout.
Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza -- whose State of the City address is coming up on February 10 -- joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of issues, including his 'Great Streets' plan, the city's underfunded pension, and whether a Trader Joe's will be coming to the I-195 District.
Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza -- whose State of the City address is coming up on February 10 -- joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of issues, including his 'Great Streets' plan, the city's underfunded pension, and whether a Trader Joe's will be coming to the I-195 District.
Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza joins Political Roundtable to discuss the hiring of a new school superintendent for city schools, whether the mayor still has a role to play in education, and whether there should be an audit of the RI Convention Center.
Providence Mayor Jorge Elorza joins Political Roundtable to discuss the hiring of a new school superintendent for city schools, whether the mayor still has a role to play in education, and whether there should be an audit of the RI Convention Center.
Rhode Island Gov. Gina Raimondo joins Political Roundtable to discuss the fight over her budget priorities, the level of state spending and related issues.
Rhode Island Gov. Gina Raimondo joins Political Roundtable to discuss the fight over her budget priorities, the level of state spending and related issues.
Rhode Island Gov. Gina Raimondo joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a controversial audit requested by Speaker Mattiello, the outlook for female presidential candidates, RI's tax climate, the next steps on high-speed rail, and more.
Rhode Island Gov. Gina Raimondo joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a controversial audit requested by Speaker Mattiello, the outlook for female presidential candidates, RI's tax climate, the next steps on high-speed rail, and more.
Rhode Island Democratic Party Executive Director Cyd McKenna joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of topics related to Democrats and the party, including the representation of women on the state committee and how the party will move past endorsement controversies in 2018.
RI House GOP Leader Blake Filippi of Block Island joins Bonus Q&A to discuss Republican priorities for the 2020 General Assembly session, efforts to reduce gun violence, whether the free market should rule on housing and regulating tech giants, and more.
RI House Minority Leader Blake Filippi (R-New Shoreham) joins Political Roundtable to discuss President Trump's actions toward Iran, and the outlook for slimming down Rhode Island's $10 billion budget.
The panel looks back at the top political stories from Rhode Island and southeastern Massachusetts for 2019.
Liz Gledhill, chair of the RI Democratic Women's Caucus, joins Political Roundtable to discuss the caucus, its priorities for 2020, and the impeachment of President Trump this week.
Liz Gledhill, chairwoman of the Rhode Island Democratic Women's Caucus, joins Political Roundtable to discuss the caucus and a range of issues involving women and politics in Rhode Island.
RIPTA CEO Scott Avedisian joins Bonus Q&A to discuss a range of questions related to transit and Warwick, where he served for many years as mayor.
RIPTA CEO Scott Avedisian joins Political Roundtable to discuss the future of the transit agency, and the move by U.S. House Democrats to bring articles of impeachment against President Trump.
Pawtucket Mayor Don Grebien joins Bonus Q&A to discuss additional questions about the city's $400 million development plan; pension costs; his political future and more.
Pawtucket Mayor Don Grebien joins Political Roundtable to discuss the newly announced $400 million development plan in that city, and how Pawtucket voters view the issue of impeachment.
For Thanksgiving week, the panel discusses how Rhode Island is doing as a new year approaches, whether the country can move past sharp divisions, and whether Democrats will be able to muster a unified approach in their challenge for the White House.
State Rep. Moira Walsh (D-Providence) joins Bonus Q&A to discuss her role in the RI House, income inequality, Providence schools, who she likes for president, and more.